As someone who lives right across from the contested statue of Robert E. Lee, I have learned to care about what these protestors and counter-protestors call themselves. But in Sasha Chapin's interesting piece about modern American appropriations of the term Nazi, the author provides a thoroughly misleading etymology of the word. I thought everyone knew that it was a shortened form of the German pronunciation of Nazionalsozialist, which is indeed pronounced "not-see." The word did not come from "Ignatius" or "Ignatz." Once we realize that the term refers to a political ideology from the 1920s and 1930s, we can see how false and misleading it is to connect it with a contemptuous term for Bavarian rustics. The Nazis were not rustics, nor were they buffoons.
Racism is at the heart of this white supremacist Renaissance. Racism and xenophobia in many forms, sometimes more covert at times, has been part and parcel of our country since white Europeans decimated Native Americans as they were, ironically, fleeing from oppression of one sort or another.
It is indeed to be taken seriously. We white people are not to be trusted. Across class lines, the majority of whites voted for a monster to be the president. So what do we call him? What do we call his followers?
Racists, misogynists, and homophobes. Too many words? Fascists. They are fascist in their convenient world-order views. They are fascists in reproductive choice for women. They are fascist as they blame people of color, Jews and feminists for their own shortcomings. They are hetero-normative fascists.
"Fascist" covers more turf than Nazi.
It is indeed to be taken seriously. We white people are not to be trusted. Across class lines, the majority of whites voted for a monster to be the president. So what do we call him? What do we call his followers?
Racists, misogynists, and homophobes. Too many words? Fascists. They are fascist in their convenient world-order views. They are fascists in reproductive choice for women. They are fascist as they blame people of color, Jews and feminists for their own shortcomings. They are hetero-normative fascists.
"Fascist" covers more turf than Nazi.
5
While the author's etymology of the word and his criticism of its misuse is interesting and valuable, his reference to "the fringe groups now attempting a takeover of national politics" is even more revealing. With this phrase he appears to associate the torch-wielding extremists in the Charlottesville demonstrations with the half of the electorate who spoke truth to power in the last election. True, those voters weren't all Nazis. How broad-minded of the author to concede that fact! Why, its almost . . . dare we say, "inclusive". But stereotyping Trump supporters as pitchfork-wielding yokels--whether you call them Nazis, racists, or Flyover People, and marginalizing and bullying them, won't win self-proclaimed "progressives" any votes in the mid-term or 2020 elections. Post-modernist memes, identity politics, and mob rule are, frankly, no longer effective. If liberals want to gain any traction, they need to address the mainstream electorate's legitimate concerns. Those marchers were just showboating, like drag queens in a gay pride parade.
1
When democrat sympathizers start to treat the term "Communist" with the same vitriol as "Nazi" they might be taken seriously. Communism is not only tolerated but encouraged on college campuses despite it being responsible for far more evil than Nazism. Communist flags were waved at the Obama inauguration, but no one in media or democrat party denounced it. Nazism was defeated in 1944, yet millions still suffer under the tyranny of Communism. When the so called "watch dog" groups, media, and democrat politicians start labeling actual domestic communist groups as the dangerous hate groups that they are, then we can make some progress towards reuniting a divided nation.
3
This is nonsense. Communists on campus are treated as the same fringe group as Nazis. But the Communists have not been out visibly chanting or running over their opposition.
@ Truth Hurts NY - Truth, truth seems to hurt you also. Have you not noticed that our President, Donald Trump, is an admirer and tries even to show friendship for Vladimir Putin. One of the greatest political ironies of all in my long life is that for much or most of that life it was Republicans who found communism to be the worst imaginable evil. Are you too young perhaps to have even heard of Joseph McCarthy, the Senator from Wisconsin?
In my 4 y at Brown, 3 y at Yale, a lifetime at the University of Rochester I never saw any student waving a "communist flag".
Perhaps you can provide us readers with a specific citation of newspaper reporting on the kind of incident you refer to.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
In my 4 y at Brown, 3 y at Yale, a lifetime at the University of Rochester I never saw any student waving a "communist flag".
Perhaps you can provide us readers with a specific citation of newspaper reporting on the kind of incident you refer to.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
If it marches like a duck and heils like a duck, then surely it's a nazi.
2
I lived next to a real Nazi, an original from Bavaria. He believed everything Trump said; sounded like a five year old child rather than an 82 year old man in saying "why would he lie about where Mr. Obama was born?". Really sickening.
1
Look there are 300 million people in this country, and only a few thousand of them are Nazis. They are so fringe that Im amazed we keep talking about them.
Why do we though? Because calling someone a Nazi is what you do when calling someone a racist or a xenophobe has lost all meaning. Nazi is the worst thing you can call somebody, and its now the word of the day. Liberals have been calling everyone racists and sexists and mysogynists, and no one listens anymore because today you can be called a racist if you just believe that open borders isnt the best idea ever.
Example. A drunk woman sexually harassed me in a liberal bar and when I told her to stop grabbing me and get out of my space she proceeded to call me an anti-woman he-she bigot (Im a transgender woman). I mean, bigot and racist and sexist are meaningless words today.
Nazi is the only thing that will actually piss someone off still. Ive actually never seen a Nazi. Ive never met a Nazi. I walked near a Nazi rally once but there were so many anti-Nazis that I never got close enough to see the 4 or 5 actual Nazis that were there.
Liberals, please dont make the word Nazi as meaningless as you've made bigot, racist, sexist, and xenophobic.
Why do we though? Because calling someone a Nazi is what you do when calling someone a racist or a xenophobe has lost all meaning. Nazi is the worst thing you can call somebody, and its now the word of the day. Liberals have been calling everyone racists and sexists and mysogynists, and no one listens anymore because today you can be called a racist if you just believe that open borders isnt the best idea ever.
Example. A drunk woman sexually harassed me in a liberal bar and when I told her to stop grabbing me and get out of my space she proceeded to call me an anti-woman he-she bigot (Im a transgender woman). I mean, bigot and racist and sexist are meaningless words today.
Nazi is the only thing that will actually piss someone off still. Ive actually never seen a Nazi. Ive never met a Nazi. I walked near a Nazi rally once but there were so many anti-Nazis that I never got close enough to see the 4 or 5 actual Nazis that were there.
Liberals, please dont make the word Nazi as meaningless as you've made bigot, racist, sexist, and xenophobic.
3
Anyone identifying themselves as a Nazi deserves nothing but scorn and derision. They did get that from every thinking conservative. Thankfully there were no more than a few hundred of these idiots in C-ville. Now where is the corresponding scorn and condemnation for those identifying themselves as Communists? Who covered their faces and also armed themselves? Remember that in Germany those two groups also fought in the streets prior to Hitler's taking power, and the world was the big loser.
2
Brilliant article. That last paragraph DROVE IT HOME!
3
I agree with the idea of unambiguously rejecting all of the alt-right at once without splitting hairs over philosophies. It was Trump's failure to do this after Charlottesville that brought such widespread condemnation. It's the same principle as not negotiating with terrorists -- it just doesn't end well.
1
These people are a bunch of play-acting posers who have no idea what they're associating themselves with. I've sat down to dinner with the *real* Nazis - Germans who served in WWII. The watered-down American versions would soil their pants if they came face to face with the ones I've met.
9
To those who are telling us not to "overdramatize" the threat posed by the alt-right's leaders and its thugs: I remind you that very few people in Germany took Hitler seriously in the 1920s. Many of them thought he was a buffoon.
The only way to stop America's neo-Nazi problem is to take it very seriously indeed. Now.
The only way to stop America's neo-Nazi problem is to take it very seriously indeed. Now.
20
"Nearly 80 years after Kristallnacht, we are not exactly sure what a Nazi is, or should be."
Yes, we are sure what they should be.
Dead.
They should be dead. They should be extinct. They should not, 72 years after VE Day, exist. Certainly not here in the United States
Yes, we are sure what they should be.
Dead.
They should be dead. They should be extinct. They should not, 72 years after VE Day, exist. Certainly not here in the United States
19
I agree with the commenters who say that invoking the name "Nazi" overly dramatizes the threat posed by the "alt-right" in all its forms. However, there is a real threat in the passion of the alt-right and the newly dispossessed classes for a simple solution to our society's problems. That is the foundation for demagoguery, which may not take the form of true Nazism that it did in Europe, but is equally dangerous.
4
Somewhere online I saw the word alt-reich to describe the new right..
I think that collects everyone in one place.
I think that collects everyone in one place.
6
I disagree with your etymology. "Nazi" is a German abbreviation of Nationalsozialismus. There was a corresponding abbreviation of the Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschland, "Sozi".
9
They are European ethnic advocacy groups, not in essence any different from innumerable other ethnic advocacy groups such as the ADL or Black Lives Matter. A more interesting subject for your article would have been why any advocacy for the ethnic interests of Europeans is immediately greeted with terms like "Nazi" and "supremacist" while all other ethnic groups are able to pursue their activism with impunity and approbation.
9
@ Robert Bruce Scotland - Please name one European ethnic group that shows up for demonstrations bearing high-power weapons, waving flags and bearing symbols comparable with the Nazi flags and symbols seen at the University of Virginia and Charlottesville.
Vague references to "other ethnic groups" just won't do. I have lived in Sweden for 22 y and the only group demonstrations I know of that come even close - not very close - to what we saw in Virginia are demonstrations by Swedish SD and Nazi-rooted groups.
Give me one concrete example of the ethnic group you claim pursues its activism with impunity and approbation.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Vague references to "other ethnic groups" just won't do. I have lived in Sweden for 22 y and the only group demonstrations I know of that come even close - not very close - to what we saw in Virginia are demonstrations by Swedish SD and Nazi-rooted groups.
Give me one concrete example of the ethnic group you claim pursues its activism with impunity and approbation.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
2
False equivalence—there is a world of difference between "advocacy" for one's own nationality/ethnicity/skin tone—that for centuries have caused you to be oppressed—and calling for the murder/expulsion/disenfranchisement of others whom you deem inferior and not worthy of life itself. Evidently you identify with these people. Pity.
1
What if culture were only created upon contacts among different peoples, perspectives, languages, works ...? “Cultural purity” would then be a non-sense notion or at best lead to cultural stagnation. I’ll spare you the learned references to thinkers unpacking this position. The “Nazi” approach to “purity” has little to offer but grief and death. By the same token, it can’t be simply excluded. It has to be cogently countered at every turn. Hence the great value of this article!
1
The premise of this article is the problem. It assumes hate. All the print spilled on the etymology of "Nazi" seeks to make the word legitimate for the press. While I have no sympathy for the word or the symbols, neither do I feel linked to the sanctimonious, self-righteous stance of the media on the left. It used to be religion that was accused of having dogmatic "truth". Reality is more complicated than propaganda.
10
The answer to that question is no. After drumming up support for the alt right march in Va. for weeks nationwide, they could only attract a couple of hundred marchers total and not all those were Nazis. The press has not talked about this factor enough. We are not experiencing a Nazi surge but all this talk does elevate their profile and make them feel bigger and more significant than they are.
7
the rub here is that oftentimes when people accuse others of being Nazis its just their own intolerance speaking, Nazis & raciest are just other "n" words. It is so often the other side's inability to hear out an opposing view.
6
Like everything else, the argument has arisen. We are now splitting hairs on what to call the recently activated fascists. What do we call them? Nazis? Alt- Right people? Whatever we call them, we know what they stand for and it's
not pretty.
not pretty.
7
The article, and responses to it, reflect deeply personal values and feelings about man in society. Society is a collective. It requires accommodation and tolerance. Even like-minded individuals disagree and are prone to factions and gang violence. Like minded gangs kill for territory. Their vendettas kill families.
Nazi is a term for intolerance. Adding 'supremacist' is a term for dominance. And within a society inferior and superior poses not only a dubious moral condition, it inevitably inflicts harm. Hutu and Tutsi are not satisfied with invidious comparison...they hate each other and nothing short of murder will satisfy one-another's encounter. Fences and walls will satisfy neither. Hate festers even in the security of the reservation. Hatred for Jews is no less when these are walled into Ghettos. Nazis invaded the Warsaw Ghetto, It is obsession with 'supremacy' that matters. Dominance is not enough. Only outright suppression and annihilation satisfy supremacists. And when one marches with a band one should be wary of 'bad companions'. For the supremacists there are no 'shades of gray'.
Nazi is a term for intolerance. Adding 'supremacist' is a term for dominance. And within a society inferior and superior poses not only a dubious moral condition, it inevitably inflicts harm. Hutu and Tutsi are not satisfied with invidious comparison...they hate each other and nothing short of murder will satisfy one-another's encounter. Fences and walls will satisfy neither. Hate festers even in the security of the reservation. Hatred for Jews is no less when these are walled into Ghettos. Nazis invaded the Warsaw Ghetto, It is obsession with 'supremacy' that matters. Dominance is not enough. Only outright suppression and annihilation satisfy supremacists. And when one marches with a band one should be wary of 'bad companions'. For the supremacists there are no 'shades of gray'.
5
This treatise on the etymology of the term Nazi whilst interesting, seems rather light hearted and trite when discussing the horrible fascistic rising groundswell of the fanatical uber-right - not just in the USA. As an aside, the word Nazi should not on my opinion, be diluted. The word should remain true to what it was - describing an evil, odious, loathsome, nauseatingly obnoxious regime which should never again be permitted to rear its head.
7
@ George Melbourne - Yes I had similar thoughts not fully developed. My comment, about 6 below yours, was intended to express the same basic idea. All too many of those marching at the University of Virginia and brandishing weapons in Charlottesville are new Nazis.
Only-NeverinSweden.blogspot.com
Only-NeverinSweden.blogspot.com
Call them what you wish, but when individuals wear symbols used by SS divisions, as they did in Charlottesville, to me they are Nazis. What I wish to know is why our government has not declared the KKK and these neo-Nazis to be terrorists. Then they would have no free-speech rights, and they could be arrested en mass and put somewhere nice and comfortable like Guantánamo.
6
Many of us are looking for firm ground. It is hard to spread one's wings when the launching pad is filled with geese on the run-way. The Nazis of WWII would have had these White Extremists polish their boots and run errands for them.
There are always going to be trouble-makers in our midst ready to show their weakness when the political temperature of the Country is vulnerable. You will find them as far back as 1948 in 'The Lottery' by Shirley Jackson, or in 'The Latehomecomer':
"Martin and Willy hated Berlin. They sounded as if they had been dragged to Berlin against their will, like displaced persons. In their eyes the deepest failure of a certain political authority was that it had enticed peace-loving persons with false promises of work, homes, pensions, lives afloat like little boats at anchor; now these innocent provincials saw they had been tricked, and they were going back from where they started from. It was as simple to them as that - the equivalent of an insurance company's no longer meeting its obligations. (Author Mavis Gallant - the Fifties)
Let Us not lose trust in our Country, its People or Ourselves.
There are always going to be trouble-makers in our midst ready to show their weakness when the political temperature of the Country is vulnerable. You will find them as far back as 1948 in 'The Lottery' by Shirley Jackson, or in 'The Latehomecomer':
"Martin and Willy hated Berlin. They sounded as if they had been dragged to Berlin against their will, like displaced persons. In their eyes the deepest failure of a certain political authority was that it had enticed peace-loving persons with false promises of work, homes, pensions, lives afloat like little boats at anchor; now these innocent provincials saw they had been tricked, and they were going back from where they started from. It was as simple to them as that - the equivalent of an insurance company's no longer meeting its obligations. (Author Mavis Gallant - the Fifties)
Let Us not lose trust in our Country, its People or Ourselves.
1
When I wrote a letter to the editor of the NYT in June of 2015 describing the Trump candidacy as reminiscent of Germany's 1932 turn to Hitler, my letter was rejected and now the topic is a common trop. I have never been so depressed to be the wisest man in the room.
6
Well, just by reading some of the comments, Yes, we not only have Nazi's, Nationalist, Klan's and bigots we have their appeasers and collaborators too,
8
Some of the people behind the rise of "white nationalism" (another term I despise) are, in fact, actual Nazis - that is, actual followers of Hitler and OPENLY proud of that fact; except perhaps for Sebastian Gorka who likes to pretend that his Nazi affiliation is all about "heritage not hate" (sound familiar?). No, that's not all of them, but we should, in fact, call them what they are, lest we be guilty of downplaying just what it is that they support: genocide of anyone whose ancestry is not 100% "European" , as well as any of us European descendants whom they consider "race traitors". These are not nice people. That we end up lumping in our own, homegrown, run-of-the-mill racists in that group is imprecise, but, frankly, I don't care. The point is what they espouse, not what they are called, and if the only label which exposes the full loathsomeness of their agenda is "Nazi", then so be it.
8
A sample of the 158 comments emphasizes what I already knew, over in my USA we are in for a long run with neo-Nazis as we here in Sweden have learned from the rise of the neo-Nazi SD party.
The American two-party system allows neo-Nazis to hide under a Republican umbrella, making it all too easy for them to be seem as an outlier, not to be taken too seriously.
American neo-Nazis think just as Adolf Hitler and his Swedish facilitator, Herman Lundborg, did when he established the Swedish Institute of Race Biology in 1922. Both believed was that there is a pure white "race", superior to all other groups of humans. They were wrong.
Sasha Chapin's lengthy analysis not withstanding, neo-Nazi is the term we should be using.
Use it. Stop engaging in self deception.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
The American two-party system allows neo-Nazis to hide under a Republican umbrella, making it all too easy for them to be seem as an outlier, not to be taken too seriously.
American neo-Nazis think just as Adolf Hitler and his Swedish facilitator, Herman Lundborg, did when he established the Swedish Institute of Race Biology in 1922. Both believed was that there is a pure white "race", superior to all other groups of humans. They were wrong.
Sasha Chapin's lengthy analysis not withstanding, neo-Nazi is the term we should be using.
Use it. Stop engaging in self deception.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
7
@ myself LL - I see that most of the newest comments state that the appropriate name is Nazi, neo Nazi, new Nazi (my slight slipup because in Sweden they are nya Nazister.
I note that my first submission also making that point never appeared and all these plain-talk comments appear rather late. Wonder if the algorithm kept us waiting.
I note that my first submission also making that point never appeared and all these plain-talk comments appear rather late. Wonder if the algorithm kept us waiting.
When they march under the swastika flag and/or give Hitler salutes while holding torches so that photos of them en masse are interchangeable with those from Nuremberg, 1938, then call them what they are: neo-Nazis. Otherwise they should be named on the basis of whatever it is they're expounding: white supremacists, Texas secessionists, fascists. We shouldn't dilute the meaning and impact of the term Nazi.
3
"Fascism" is a much better term to refer to what's happening today and it isn't very different from the fascism of the past - ultra-nationalistic, ultra-protectionist, ultra-paternalistic. As for the country as a whole, it can now be called the "Fourth Reich" until the Republicans lose power or the government collapses, whatever comes first.
2
America's problem isnt 'nazis', whatever that now means. Its plain, ordinary home grown all American bigotry. Plenty of that & in plain sight
1
"The New Yorker’s Jelani Cobb finds “Nazi” insufficient ..."
"We"?
Languages have communities--geographically bound or diasproric. Idiolects are idiosyncratic. Dialects are sub-communities/cultures--e.g Cockney, professions, academic disciplines, and other social classes. The inclusive language --e.g English--is a "superlect"--a federation of dialects. The "Queen's English" is but one--hardly standard setting--to North Americans. "A language-proper is but a dialect with the best army" might be updated by replacing "army" with 'media" or "education".
Cobb turns his idiolect into a dialect or even superlect--due to The New Yorker marketing itself as "the world's best writing."
Yes--to many of us the Nazis are paradigms of political evil and counter examples to extreme pacifism; WWII was a just war.
But that justice hardly infects the meaning or referent of "Nazi"; it's not an oxymoron-- "good evil". It's just an evil that's good to oppose.--true of all evils.
In the old TV show "Hogan's Heroes" Nazis were so evil they must be stupid--reprising the sense of Bavarian buffoon.
So too are American nazis (not a proper name)--American buffoons--evil but buffoons nevertheless. What else would you call those desperately needing to be best at something--so picking skin color.
But American "democracy"--does suggest Americans must be good--not psychopaths, buffoons or deplorable. After all they vote and enough of them can "democratically" elect a president.
"We"?
Languages have communities--geographically bound or diasproric. Idiolects are idiosyncratic. Dialects are sub-communities/cultures--e.g Cockney, professions, academic disciplines, and other social classes. The inclusive language --e.g English--is a "superlect"--a federation of dialects. The "Queen's English" is but one--hardly standard setting--to North Americans. "A language-proper is but a dialect with the best army" might be updated by replacing "army" with 'media" or "education".
Cobb turns his idiolect into a dialect or even superlect--due to The New Yorker marketing itself as "the world's best writing."
Yes--to many of us the Nazis are paradigms of political evil and counter examples to extreme pacifism; WWII was a just war.
But that justice hardly infects the meaning or referent of "Nazi"; it's not an oxymoron-- "good evil". It's just an evil that's good to oppose.--true of all evils.
In the old TV show "Hogan's Heroes" Nazis were so evil they must be stupid--reprising the sense of Bavarian buffoon.
So too are American nazis (not a proper name)--American buffoons--evil but buffoons nevertheless. What else would you call those desperately needing to be best at something--so picking skin color.
But American "democracy"--does suggest Americans must be good--not psychopaths, buffoons or deplorable. After all they vote and enough of them can "democratically" elect a president.
2
Those marching with torches at the University of Virginia shouting "Sieg Heil" and "Jews will not replace us" tell us who they are and what we are to call them.
New Nazis
They have an infamous predecessor, Charles Lindbergh, Hitler supporter and fierce anti-semite given the Commander Cross of the Order of the German Eagle in Berlin in 1938 by Hermann Goering on behalf of Adolf Hitler.
They even have a 21st Century model in Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik who did not and does not hide behind euphemisms such as alt-Right. See him extending his right arm in the Nazi salute in a Norwegian courtroom and you will understand.
The American New Nazis, like their German, Norwegian, and Swedish forebears believe there is one and only one superior race. Designating them as New Nazis should keep in the minds of all the rest of us how wrong they are. There is only one race, the human, the one to which each of us belongs. They with their inhumanity on full display cannot take that truth away from us.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
New Nazis
They have an infamous predecessor, Charles Lindbergh, Hitler supporter and fierce anti-semite given the Commander Cross of the Order of the German Eagle in Berlin in 1938 by Hermann Goering on behalf of Adolf Hitler.
They even have a 21st Century model in Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik who did not and does not hide behind euphemisms such as alt-Right. See him extending his right arm in the Nazi salute in a Norwegian courtroom and you will understand.
The American New Nazis, like their German, Norwegian, and Swedish forebears believe there is one and only one superior race. Designating them as New Nazis should keep in the minds of all the rest of us how wrong they are. There is only one race, the human, the one to which each of us belongs. They with their inhumanity on full display cannot take that truth away from us.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
5
Look at the size of the Nazi crowd.
Then look at the tens of thousands that come out to say "no" to their bigoted racist hate.
We have Nazis. And KKK. They have been energized and emboldened.
But they are a tiny minority. They are not who we are.
You cannot be a Nazi and a patriotic American. We had a war about that. The whole world was involved.
Then look at the tens of thousands that come out to say "no" to their bigoted racist hate.
We have Nazis. And KKK. They have been energized and emboldened.
But they are a tiny minority. They are not who we are.
You cannot be a Nazi and a patriotic American. We had a war about that. The whole world was involved.
4
Do people know what Nazism is? Only that Hitler was an Evil Madman, which he was, but they should start digging deeper into history. I'll stop there before you start calling me one but let the words of the Roosevelts, Churchill, the New York Times archives and intelectuals of that era saw.
1
American Nazis love Trump. They see his victory as their victory. So far Trump is 'Hitler' Lite. He wants to deport Mexicans but not put them in concentration camps. He encourages Police to rough up people who are accused of a crime by smashing their heads on the roof of the Police car. A month later a Police Officer is caught on tape talking to a White woman. Don't worry, "We just kill Black People". How much more evidence do we need. The Nazis are here and they vote Republican.
4
A Nazi by any other name is as foul and evil.
4
There is a term. It is Racist. Nazi is a smoke screen, these people are all white and scared. Obama was their worst nightmare come true. Now with Trump it is back to normal and they are becoming bold again because he has their back.
4
@ MW Minnesota. No MW, racist won't do. Racism as defined and used by some researchers, notably Marie Masuda and Erik Bleich is a term for the beliefs and practices of all who look down on, demean, and often act against an individual or group because of religion, nativity, language, physical features, and more.
The US like the populations in most countries has a vast array of racists using the definition above.
Individuals using the symbols for Hitler Nazis, the swastika flag, the extended arm salute, and the expressons of Hitler deserve the designation neo Nazi or just Nazi.
Most of the recent comments take that position as does mine.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
The US like the populations in most countries has a vast array of racists using the definition above.
Individuals using the symbols for Hitler Nazis, the swastika flag, the extended arm salute, and the expressons of Hitler deserve the designation neo Nazi or just Nazi.
Most of the recent comments take that position as does mine.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Several comments seek a better word for the alt-right. I think that 'deplorables' has just the right ring to it.
57
Suggest "despicables".
1
Will you say the same of ANTIFA?
2
And that is why Trump is in the White House. Because those deplorables went to the polls to vote for him. Perhaps if Hil hadn't used that word, she might actually have won some of their votes. So be careful of the words you choose. That's what go us into this mess.
1
I had always heard a shorthand description of Godwin's law: "The first person who mentions Nazis or Hitler loses." As Mr. Godwin has pointed out, that law is now, as they say, "inoperative."
8
And who exactly was arguing on the internet in 1990?
The article was a bit long and required the desire to see where he was going with all the etymology, but it was worth the read.
I couldn't agree more with the writer's conclusions:
"...we do not have to engage in linguistic diplomacy with people who want to destroy us. We don’t have to refer to them with their labels of choice."
(i.e.:Alt-Right versus Nazis)
"...there’s also great value in unambiguously rejecting all of them at once with our most melodious, satisfying terminology. “Nazi” is not careful description but careful description is a form of courtesy. “Nazi,” on the other hand, has always been a form of disrespect."
I would add that it is a well deserved (disrespectful) moniker for groups with their hateful INTENT. Further, it is useful shorthand for the rest of us to communicate the danger we see in their rise, and the urgency and moral imperative we feel in opposing them.
I couldn't agree more with the writer's conclusions:
"...we do not have to engage in linguistic diplomacy with people who want to destroy us. We don’t have to refer to them with their labels of choice."
(i.e.:Alt-Right versus Nazis)
"...there’s also great value in unambiguously rejecting all of them at once with our most melodious, satisfying terminology. “Nazi” is not careful description but careful description is a form of courtesy. “Nazi,” on the other hand, has always been a form of disrespect."
I would add that it is a well deserved (disrespectful) moniker for groups with their hateful INTENT. Further, it is useful shorthand for the rest of us to communicate the danger we see in their rise, and the urgency and moral imperative we feel in opposing them.
13
If your definition of Nazi is someone who wants to live in an ethnically homogeneous society, then most of humanity are Nazis, have been Nazis, and will always be Nazis. Including me.
The small number of sheltered, middle class white teenagers who unironically believe in a cosmopolitan, borderless world are on the wrong side of history.
Same goes for fascism. Beyond a handful of Scandinavian and Anglosphere countries, liberal democracy is not a closely held ideology around the world. Even central and southern European countries are willing to overlook its principals for various reasons, to say nothing of non-western countries.
Sure, advocating genocide is bad. But is that what these alt-right people want? Talk of supremacism and violence is an ideological excess of white identity politics. Their core beliefs - advocacy for their race and for homogeneity - are sound. It should not be dismissed based on its extremist fringes.
If dissolving the US is not possible, then the best solution should be kind of voluntary segregation between states. Whites can flock to the midwest, blacks to the south, Asians to Hawaii and the west coast, etc.
The small number of sheltered, middle class white teenagers who unironically believe in a cosmopolitan, borderless world are on the wrong side of history.
Same goes for fascism. Beyond a handful of Scandinavian and Anglosphere countries, liberal democracy is not a closely held ideology around the world. Even central and southern European countries are willing to overlook its principals for various reasons, to say nothing of non-western countries.
Sure, advocating genocide is bad. But is that what these alt-right people want? Talk of supremacism and violence is an ideological excess of white identity politics. Their core beliefs - advocacy for their race and for homogeneity - are sound. It should not be dismissed based on its extremist fringes.
If dissolving the US is not possible, then the best solution should be kind of voluntary segregation between states. Whites can flock to the midwest, blacks to the south, Asians to Hawaii and the west coast, etc.
9
The cosmopolitan city I live in is a shining example of a population embracing racial diversity. Rather than being on the wrong side of history, we are on the right side of the future.
1
No. The best thing would be for you and those like you to segregate yourselves out of this country and start your ridiculous "homogenous homeland" elsewhere. Unless you are 100% descended from one of the many nations of people who were here before the Europeans, you cannot claim this country as your own. Go back to where your ancestors came from if all you wish is to live with people who are supposedly just like you, and leave this country, which has been entirely about immigration since it was discovered by the rest of the world.
2
Dude, did you just call yourself a Nazi?!
Strive my friend, You can do better. Those "others" are just fine. The world is full of flavors, sounds and humanity.
I myself (Dutch mongrel) cannot imagine, not having my brown eyed black-haired beautiful Persian wife. Our kids are like calicos.
My babysitter is a nice Mexican lady next door. She teaches my spawn Spanish and introduces them to tastes I'm always jealous to try.
They play with a mix of ethnicities on the block. They all seem to be having a decent time.
We often eat at the local Pilipino restaurant. Have you ever tried Lumpia? Being from Hong Kong (or so your location says) maybe you have tried the Chinese spring rolls? Yes? Tasty huh.
I don't know why anyone would want to see and hear and think the same thing everyday. What a small world that would be.
The humanity of the world is huge and varied. It is to be celebrated.
Watching the same channel everyday is stupid.
Just as eating only vanilla is boring.
Granted if that is your thing, (??!!!??) then more power to you.
But I'm telling you my friend. Variety truly is the spice of life.
The human smile is universal. GO get some.
Strive my friend, You can do better. Those "others" are just fine. The world is full of flavors, sounds and humanity.
I myself (Dutch mongrel) cannot imagine, not having my brown eyed black-haired beautiful Persian wife. Our kids are like calicos.
My babysitter is a nice Mexican lady next door. She teaches my spawn Spanish and introduces them to tastes I'm always jealous to try.
They play with a mix of ethnicities on the block. They all seem to be having a decent time.
We often eat at the local Pilipino restaurant. Have you ever tried Lumpia? Being from Hong Kong (or so your location says) maybe you have tried the Chinese spring rolls? Yes? Tasty huh.
I don't know why anyone would want to see and hear and think the same thing everyday. What a small world that would be.
The humanity of the world is huge and varied. It is to be celebrated.
Watching the same channel everyday is stupid.
Just as eating only vanilla is boring.
Granted if that is your thing, (??!!!??) then more power to you.
But I'm telling you my friend. Variety truly is the spice of life.
The human smile is universal. GO get some.
2
Leonard Peikoff wrote about this in his 1982 Ominous Parallels . . . Facism is alive and well in America. A quick visit to FB will confirm it. Nascent it may be, but make no mistake, it's here.
12
Those people who take to the streets in imitation of Mussolini's Brown Shirts have no status or power in this country. They have no representation in Congress or in state legislatures. They are only trying to attract attention in the only way they know how.
To moderates and conservatives, if the liberals are looking for acts that resemble Fascism, let them look no further than to the firing of a young
self-proclaimed liberal Google engineer who was asked to write a memo on the Company's diversity program and found that of the many ideas in the memo, one suggesting that genetic differences might make women less liable to make a career in tech had to require his dismissal. (And potential blacklisting at other tech companies.) His statement was firmly grounded on the science of natural selection.
A moderate or a conservative might also point out that on complaints from some of the students, universities rescind invitations to certain conservative speakers whose ideas are unpopular or, allowing them to begin speaking, then shout the speaker down so that he or she cannot be heard.
To moderates and conservatives, if the liberals are looking for acts that resemble Fascism, let them look no further than to the firing of a young
self-proclaimed liberal Google engineer who was asked to write a memo on the Company's diversity program and found that of the many ideas in the memo, one suggesting that genetic differences might make women less liable to make a career in tech had to require his dismissal. (And potential blacklisting at other tech companies.) His statement was firmly grounded on the science of natural selection.
A moderate or a conservative might also point out that on complaints from some of the students, universities rescind invitations to certain conservative speakers whose ideas are unpopular or, allowing them to begin speaking, then shout the speaker down so that he or she cannot be heard.
14
Maybe Snowflake would be a better term for this brand of nazi?
@Bill Keating
No scientific evidence supports the "natural selection" of men over women in science or math. During World War II, computers at Los Alamos, helping to develop the atomic bomb, were all women. After the war, computers were all women who helped to put Americans in space ("Hidden Figures"). Discrimination always claims to have a scientific basis that turns out to be bogus.
No scientific evidence supports the "natural selection" of men over women in science or math. During World War II, computers at Los Alamos, helping to develop the atomic bomb, were all women. After the war, computers were all women who helped to put Americans in space ("Hidden Figures"). Discrimination always claims to have a scientific basis that turns out to be bogus.
The men who marched in those demonstrations are mostly the losers of our society, poorly educated and either unemployed or underemployed, much as were Hitler's and Mussolini's Brown Shirts.
Their demonstration was provoked by the illegal assembly the night before that pulled down a monument to Robert E. Lee. The politicians and the media try to justify this by claiming that Lee was a racist and a traitor. In 1936 President Roosevelt attended an unveiling of a monument to Lee in Dallas and paid tribute to him as a great Christian and a great gentleman. President Eisenhower had a portrait of Lee hanging in the Oval Office.
The right way to treat this would be to identify the people who march calling themselves Fascists, and try to see them better educated and with decent employment opportunity. Did you know that for every four females that receive Bachelor's degrees only three men do, and the gap continues to widen. And nobody cares.
It is much easier to see things in black and white, evil versus good, with yourself in the white category of course. I have always liked our Nobel Laureate Bob Dylan's lyrics from "My Back Pages"
"Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth, 'rip down all hate,' I screamed
Lies that life is black and white spoke from my skull, I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers foundationed deep, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"
Their demonstration was provoked by the illegal assembly the night before that pulled down a monument to Robert E. Lee. The politicians and the media try to justify this by claiming that Lee was a racist and a traitor. In 1936 President Roosevelt attended an unveiling of a monument to Lee in Dallas and paid tribute to him as a great Christian and a great gentleman. President Eisenhower had a portrait of Lee hanging in the Oval Office.
The right way to treat this would be to identify the people who march calling themselves Fascists, and try to see them better educated and with decent employment opportunity. Did you know that for every four females that receive Bachelor's degrees only three men do, and the gap continues to widen. And nobody cares.
It is much easier to see things in black and white, evil versus good, with yourself in the white category of course. I have always liked our Nobel Laureate Bob Dylan's lyrics from "My Back Pages"
"Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth, 'rip down all hate,' I screamed
Lies that life is black and white spoke from my skull, I dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers foundationed deep, somehow
Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"
8
@ Bill Keating: "Their demonstration was provoked by the illegal assembly the night before that pulled down a monument to Robert E. Lee."
Patently untrue. That now infamous, torchlit procession through the UVA campus was planned well in advance of the event. And before I "try to see" those marchers as better educated etc. I regret to say that the actual sight of their contorted faces shouting "Jews will not replace us" will long be retained in memory. A word of advice: best to peddle this nonsense in another forum ---the readers of these columns are a thoughtful bunch who rely on facts.
Patently untrue. That now infamous, torchlit procession through the UVA campus was planned well in advance of the event. And before I "try to see" those marchers as better educated etc. I regret to say that the actual sight of their contorted faces shouting "Jews will not replace us" will long be retained in memory. A word of advice: best to peddle this nonsense in another forum ---the readers of these columns are a thoughtful bunch who rely on facts.
64
@Bill Keating
Regardless of what U.S. presidents honored Lee, he was a traitor. Interesting that you want these marching fascists to become better educated, and that's a high priority for you but not for the fascists themselves. Why not start educating at a lower level, at the level that would reduce the U.S. prison population which is the largest in the world (by percent or by number)?
Regardless of what U.S. presidents honored Lee, he was a traitor. Interesting that you want these marching fascists to become better educated, and that's a high priority for you but not for the fascists themselves. Why not start educating at a lower level, at the level that would reduce the U.S. prison population which is the largest in the world (by percent or by number)?
Amen. There is no orthodoxy so strong as that of a media-converted populace who let others do their superficial thinking for them, and then behave like self-righteous religious fanatics.
Americans once confronted an alarming question: were many of our fellow citizens communists?
The years passed and after a decade or two, we Americans came to realize that the question itself was the problem. We were giving in to paranoia, and destroying our social fabric with the vitriolic hyperbole of McCarthyism and Red Scares.
This very problematically titled article echoes the uncontrolled and wild emotions of those times.
Today, we need to get a grip. A few hundred social misfits marching in a town in Virginia does not make "Many of Our Fellow Citizens 'Nazis'. A boorish and uncouth President is not a 21st century Hitler. There has been no Kristallnacht, no Night of the Long Knives in America.
We are what we were a year ago, with a silly man as President.
The years passed and after a decade or two, we Americans came to realize that the question itself was the problem. We were giving in to paranoia, and destroying our social fabric with the vitriolic hyperbole of McCarthyism and Red Scares.
This very problematically titled article echoes the uncontrolled and wild emotions of those times.
Today, we need to get a grip. A few hundred social misfits marching in a town in Virginia does not make "Many of Our Fellow Citizens 'Nazis'. A boorish and uncouth President is not a 21st century Hitler. There has been no Kristallnacht, no Night of the Long Knives in America.
We are what we were a year ago, with a silly man as President.
14
Hitler had been in power for 5 years before Kristallnacht, this president has less than 10 months under his belt so far. History has shown over eons that vain, ignorant, silly men who wield political power of a muscular state generally manage to inflict great damage. This president's TV shows we might dismiss as silly, although that is exactly what built the base for him to get him to this position.
31
@mscommerce
Our concern--and it should be that of all Americans--is that a Nazi apologist or sympathizer is the U.S. president. We'll not wait for events analogous to Kristallnacht to become very alarmed; by then it's too late.
Our concern--and it should be that of all Americans--is that a Nazi apologist or sympathizer is the U.S. president. We'll not wait for events analogous to Kristallnacht to become very alarmed; by then it's too late.
1
I suggest THE KNOWLEDGE ILLUSION: Why We Never Think Alone, by Sloman and Fernbach as an alternative to this slippery slope thought pattern.
After World War II, the US captured some rocket scientists, the most famous of which was Werner Von Braun, if not an actual member of the Nazi party had certainly worked for the Nazi cause. I suppose this was understandable in light of the 'Iron Curtain' and the start of the 50-year Cold War, which in at least a couple of instances nearly erupted in a nuclear exchange.
Nazi war criminals, such as Klaus Barbi, known as 'the butcher of Lyon' because he sent thousands of Jews from southern France to the death camps, were on the CIA payroll for years—again because Nazis, whatever their previous actions, were considered to be reliable anti-communist cold warriors.
The Russian Revolution and the USSR, with its idealistic vision of a society governed by the principle 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need', was seen as an existential threat by all capitalist counties, some of whom, including the US, contributed troops to try to quash the Reds, who ultimately won the civil war that followed the Revolution.
After VE-day, many Nazis fled to South America, while many Americans who had been at least to some extent sympathetic to the communist cause during the Great Depression (which was of course caused by capitalists) were persecuted by Senator Joe McCarthy or blacklisted by Hollywood.
American foreign policy has consistently supported anti-communist dictatorships since WWII so the US is decidedly more sympathetic to Nazi than communist goals.
Nazi war criminals, such as Klaus Barbi, known as 'the butcher of Lyon' because he sent thousands of Jews from southern France to the death camps, were on the CIA payroll for years—again because Nazis, whatever their previous actions, were considered to be reliable anti-communist cold warriors.
The Russian Revolution and the USSR, with its idealistic vision of a society governed by the principle 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need', was seen as an existential threat by all capitalist counties, some of whom, including the US, contributed troops to try to quash the Reds, who ultimately won the civil war that followed the Revolution.
After VE-day, many Nazis fled to South America, while many Americans who had been at least to some extent sympathetic to the communist cause during the Great Depression (which was of course caused by capitalists) were persecuted by Senator Joe McCarthy or blacklisted by Hollywood.
American foreign policy has consistently supported anti-communist dictatorships since WWII so the US is decidedly more sympathetic to Nazi than communist goals.
9
For those of us whose relatives died in the Holocaust, and many others, one Nazi is one Nazi too many. "Nazism" is a virulent plague that cannot be tolerated in any form or shape. "These people" have no more right to march than do members of ISIS or Al Qaeda. The American Civil Liberties Union made a grave mistake in fighting for their right to march. Can anyone dare imagine what survivors of the Holocaust, or their children, felt when they saw the Nazi flag waved in Charlotte. Whether there are 10 people who call themselves Nazis were 10,000, their existence is a threat not just the Jews or blacks, but to our very civilization
41
NEIL: it's like being a little bit pregnant, isn't it?You either believe totally in the First Amendment protecting free speech or you don't. It was not written to [protect those whom you agree with, but those whom you disagree with .When Court authorized Nazi march through mostly Jewish neighorhood in Skokie. it was faithful to the First Amendment. When I am in NY always get my coffee and croissants at Zabars--best in city--and sitting there on Thursdays and Saturdays is Rene Feller.Above her is her photo encaptioned with her name and with sub title, "From Auchwitz to Zabar's." She is a survivor whom I have interviewed, and a more fervent admirer of Norman Siegel , ACLU and his defense of First Amendment you will not find anywhere. There is a totalitarianism of the left as well as the right. By the way, who gave SPLC the prerogative to decide which groups were hate groups and which were not?Mark Potok even considers Ayaan Hsiri Ali, crusader against fgm a dangerous terrorist because of her politically incorrect stand against this abhorrent paternalistic practice.Don' t let your arguments be emotionally driven. It's the Constitution and Bill of Rights that count in the end.
2
I don't think it is a bad thing to use Nazi against white supremacists and racists and the like for the reason that it dispels the myth that somehow that the US is 'above that', that anything we do by default is not the same thing as the evil of the Nazis, it is an extension of American exceptionalism that is both mythology and quite dangerous. "That could never happen here" was a refrain you heard after WWII and the Nazi era, but the same evil that drove the Nazis is present in the US as well, and if you start thinking you are above that as a people, means you are quite able to ignore the horrors we as a people can do. The same country that fought Nazis in Europe had Jim Crow, the same country that reacted to the holocaust with such horror after war, because of anti semitism, refused even to think of allowing Jews to come here as refugees (and it wasn't just ordinary America, the Catholic Church and evangelical Christians were two of the loudest voices of not letting 'those people' come to the US). We may not have visited the horror levels of the Nazis, but we certainly had and continue to have our own version of what drove the Nazi insanity.......
20
The more alarming issue is that so many Americans can accommodate Nazis.
I can assure you: not a single one of the neo-Nazis, Klansmen or other white supremacists who marched in Charlottesville voted for Hillary Clinton.
That should give us all pause about the GOP's "big tent."
I can assure you: not a single one of the neo-Nazis, Klansmen or other white supremacists who marched in Charlottesville voted for Hillary Clinton.
That should give us all pause about the GOP's "big tent."
68
I think it's fair to say many of our fellow citizens are nazis. Being "a nazi" or even being "pro nazi" is more a state of mind than "a movement", though these birds of a feather seem to flock together.
It appears that many, if not most of people who identify as "nazi' share the same obvious socio- personality characteristics : white males ( with their corresponding female partners), less educated, residing in predominantly rural areas of America, displaced from work and often from their nuclear families, and consequently in less advantageous socioeconomic circumstances.
Their hatred of Jews, blacks, asians, "liberals", immigrants, pretty much anyone who they perceive to have "more" than them, serves as a convenient psychological scapegoat for their own personal shortcomings and failures. More advantaged "members' might focus on narrower populations depending on which group they perceive as most threatening to them.
Ultimately, people labelled as "nazis", upon closer observation, are those who have failed themselves in the challenging environment of "freedom", we call America. Like the poor, they shall always be with us, even if by other names.
The Alt Right is a more diluted version, focusing on the white males who have been privileged to date but fear the leveling of the playing field through social legislation.
It doesn't seem off target to lump the groups together as their fearful reactions to the process of "change" are dangerous to others around them.
It appears that many, if not most of people who identify as "nazi' share the same obvious socio- personality characteristics : white males ( with their corresponding female partners), less educated, residing in predominantly rural areas of America, displaced from work and often from their nuclear families, and consequently in less advantageous socioeconomic circumstances.
Their hatred of Jews, blacks, asians, "liberals", immigrants, pretty much anyone who they perceive to have "more" than them, serves as a convenient psychological scapegoat for their own personal shortcomings and failures. More advantaged "members' might focus on narrower populations depending on which group they perceive as most threatening to them.
Ultimately, people labelled as "nazis", upon closer observation, are those who have failed themselves in the challenging environment of "freedom", we call America. Like the poor, they shall always be with us, even if by other names.
The Alt Right is a more diluted version, focusing on the white males who have been privileged to date but fear the leveling of the playing field through social legislation.
It doesn't seem off target to lump the groups together as their fearful reactions to the process of "change" are dangerous to others around them.
12
Never realized that Hitler based much of his abhorrent philosophy on American laws codifying racial discrimination. The Klan has a great deal to be proud of, it seems.
16
@Stone icon1--Hitler's staff also greatly admired the US's treatment of Native Americans (our version of a Holocaust) and saw it an ideal model for dealing with Jews.
@ Stone_icon1 LA - Stone one of the truly major figures for Hitler was the Swedish doctor Herman Lundborg who in 1922 created the Swedish Institute of Race Biology. His goal was to develop eugenics programs that would in time result in a pure Aryan population, Aryan as understood by him and Hitler. It is only recently that a major biography of him has been published, only in Swedish: Käraste Herman : rasbiologen Herman Lundborgs gåta by Maja Hagerman. Dear Herman - The Riddle of Race Biologist Herman Lundborg.
The riddle is that although he devoted years to showing that Same (Lapps) were racially inferior, he married one!
At least Sweden moved on from what he tried to create.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
The riddle is that although he devoted years to showing that Same (Lapps) were racially inferior, he married one!
At least Sweden moved on from what he tried to create.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
I understand the intellectual exercise of tracing the origins of the word "Nazi", but given history, given that they proudly march behind a swastika and revere Adolph Hitler, and the never-ending blame filled rhetoric of hate they use what else would you call them? The difference between now and then is we know precisely what they are and still we avoid dealing with as we should - that too is the same mistake of the past.
8
What else could we call them? Dehumumanizers
1
I like that! "Dehumanizers"
A most enlightening article which makes many valuable points. The early history of the word "Nazi" in Bavaria (which I'm discovering) suggests that comedy and irony are but feeble weapons against evil: the real Nazis were not affected by the "nazi" mockery presenting them as rubes. Somehow I feel it"s the same with comedy. Colbert makes me laugh (except when he goes homophobic) but this kind of comedy has little impact on the fight against the erratic reactionary and may even work to his benefit among some segments of the population.
The word "Nazi" in the US, as the writer clearly says, also tends to obscure the American origins of these dreadful ideologies and deeds. The KKK preceded the Nazis (who also got inspiration from Gobineau in France). Fighting the alt-right, white supremacists, racists, KKK supporters is what matters more than the word used to describe them. Thugs, violent thugs is what they are and may be called.
Thanks for this piece.
The word "Nazi" in the US, as the writer clearly says, also tends to obscure the American origins of these dreadful ideologies and deeds. The KKK preceded the Nazis (who also got inspiration from Gobineau in France). Fighting the alt-right, white supremacists, racists, KKK supporters is what matters more than the word used to describe them. Thugs, violent thugs is what they are and may be called.
Thanks for this piece.
13
@ Pierre Guerlain: "...suggests that comedy and irony are but feeble weapons against evil..."
With great respect I must disagree: laughter and comedy definitely have a place in the arsenal at our disposal to fight evil. Mel Brooks' "To Be or Not To Be" comes readily to mind. Also the solution that the citizens of Wunsiedel (Bavaria) have come up with: the Nazis Against Nazis walkathon. Brilliant --please look it up.
With great respect I must disagree: laughter and comedy definitely have a place in the arsenal at our disposal to fight evil. Mel Brooks' "To Be or Not To Be" comes readily to mind. Also the solution that the citizens of Wunsiedel (Bavaria) have come up with: the Nazis Against Nazis walkathon. Brilliant --please look it up.
11
A number of commenters have questioned what is the legal basis of protection for hate speech in the US, whomever it targets, where did the those laws come from?
Well, who made the laws for the first 400-500 years here, including laws that do protect speech that demeans, degrades, and threatens women, Muslims, Jews, African Americans, Natives, Mexicans, trans and gay people, disabled people etc.?
Those laws were not made by deliberative bodies that included those folks. Every aspect of the fundamental basis of this country and the centuries since have been steeped, wittingly or otherwise, in white male power and privilege. This is not to say those endless generations of men were consciously, deliberately, malicious, venal white male supremacists. But with no one else at the table, their inevitable inherited, unconscious biases and preferences were never challenged and brought to light. It is vitally important to recognize that effectively zero women, Muslims, Jews, Mexicans, trans and gay people, African Americans or Native people (or any discriminated-against class)-- zero were included in those conventions and discussions. Seeing that can help us more easily dismantle fundamentally flawed and unjust norms, mores, regulations, and laws.
Well, who made the laws for the first 400-500 years here, including laws that do protect speech that demeans, degrades, and threatens women, Muslims, Jews, African Americans, Natives, Mexicans, trans and gay people, disabled people etc.?
Those laws were not made by deliberative bodies that included those folks. Every aspect of the fundamental basis of this country and the centuries since have been steeped, wittingly or otherwise, in white male power and privilege. This is not to say those endless generations of men were consciously, deliberately, malicious, venal white male supremacists. But with no one else at the table, their inevitable inherited, unconscious biases and preferences were never challenged and brought to light. It is vitally important to recognize that effectively zero women, Muslims, Jews, Mexicans, trans and gay people, African Americans or Native people (or any discriminated-against class)-- zero were included in those conventions and discussions. Seeing that can help us more easily dismantle fundamentally flawed and unjust norms, mores, regulations, and laws.
12
Good read. I had not realized that Nazi was a name-derived Bavarian insult before it was applied to the National Socialists. The use of the term to describe anyone with perfectionistic impulses has always bothered me. My parents survived the War in Switzerland. For them the term meant only one thing and was not to be used without consideration or in fun. That feeling remains true for me. Perhaps we need a new insult for the current crop of bigots proclaiming white supremacy. Anyone?
8
I'm pretty sure that etymology is incorrect--check the German ngram of Nazi to see that the term was not in print before the 1920s. In fact, socialists were called "Sozis" (from the German Sozialisten), and when the National Sozialisten began to compete with them in the early 1920s, their popular parallel contraction was Nazis, to distinguish them. There is NO connotation of a bumbling "Ignatz" in Germany. I would like to hear what evidence the author has for that etymology or even connotation.
10
Long ago, France (and I'm sure other countries) declared it illegal to incite hatred or violence against a group of people. Why do free-speech laws in the U.S. protect those who incite hatred and violence against Jews, Muslims, women, immigrants, blacks, and other groups? Our concept of free speech is being tested and needs to adapt to the hateful era we live in.
20
It is illegal to incite violence against people in the US as well, we have laws like incitement to riot, and there is criminal harassment or intimidation when speech goes over the line. The reason is very simple, often laws ostensibly used to stop violent speech or hateful speech that is in fact harassment or intimidation, are often used to suppress speech that is merely distasteful to someone. Such laws, for example, could be used by fundamentalist Christians and the like, who argue that open discussions of LGBT people or worse, discussion that is positive, "is hateful" towards Christianity, or can be used by someone with some kind of crazy agenda to try and get rid of speech they simply don't like. The line is a nuanced one, but it has to be that way, banning "hate speech" or any speech has to be where there is true danger in the words, otherwise you end up with a society that uses hate speech and the like as a cudgel.
12
Well, look who holds power and who made the laws that protect speech that demeans, degrades, and threatens women, Muslims, Jews, African Americans, Natives, Mexicans, trans and gay people, disabled people etc. Those laws were not made by deliberative bodies that included those folks. White male power and privilege saturated every aspect of the fundamental origins of this country and the centuries since. This point is not to say those men were consciously, deliberately, malicious and venal white male supremacists. But it is important to recognize that witbasically zero women, Muslims, Jews, Mexicans, trans and gay people, African Americans or Native people included in those discussions, so the inherited unconscious biases and preferences were never challenged and brought to light.
3
You are right of course, thank you. I have stopped posting such comments myself because I have learned one thing about the left: they are not amenable to rational argument, persuasion or logic. They are right and anyone who disagrees is evil.
1
The surreal, disorienting alienation is often termed "Kafkaesque." The alt-right-alt-reality should be termed "caccaesque."
9
Our "Lord of the Flies" president has certainly unleashed, empowered and linked up segments of our population that I was confident was isolated minuscule and dying. However I am confident we will muddle through yet another regrettable era of overreaction and identity politics and resume the path of progress and justice.
Excellent and thoughtful writing.
Excellent and thoughtful writing.
10
Thank you, Ms. Chapin, for a very timely article. It is not too early nor too outrageous to be addressing this concern. Distant family members of mine were murdered for having been born of Slavic ancestry and one of the so-called wrong religions, Catholicism. Murder is still too mainstream a term for the atrocities committed by Hitler's Nazis, but I am glad you have put it right out there in our discussion. That there has been deeply rooted legal history in the United States is something that has to be brought out into what I hope becomes a much more frequent discussion among all Americans, perhaps especially among those whose families were affected by Hitler's Nazis, but also by those who share our concern for human life. The alarm is already sounding and it is never an option to say that it cannot happen in the united States or any other seemingly civilized country.All it does take is, as this article describes so well, is the evolving of the term either nazi, or the capitalized Nazi, into our new normal lexicon and combine that with economic distress (the main trigger, I believe, for all other extreme social uprisings)
3
A childhood acquaintance who I rarely hear from IM'd me. She'd come to France to meet her French boyfriend and he'd literally thrown her out: would we come rescue her? Um - sure. We're Americans but have been living here for years, transferred for a one-year cross-cultural training that we've extended because we've fallen in love with the country.
It didn't take long to figure out what happened. She is the only Trump supporter I know but she's also now a self-proclaimed "white nationalist." When she told me this I told her you know that I'm Jewish; my family had many people who did not come to the US killed in the holocaust? Well, she answered, that was a long time ago and "white people are oppressed." Besides, "immigrants are overrunning the US." "I'm a US immigrant, answered my wife", and -- come to think of it -- the whole family could now be classified as French immigrants (I'm not sure about the difference between expats and immigrants).
We took care of her though she was annoyed at me and remains annoying. She talks to my wife but, despite hosting her for too long, hasn't talked to or thanked me.
When I moved here my parents said "the family barely escaped alive - many didn't - how can you move back there?" Now I'm hoping that they'll come join me. America, you have a serious problem.
It didn't take long to figure out what happened. She is the only Trump supporter I know but she's also now a self-proclaimed "white nationalist." When she told me this I told her you know that I'm Jewish; my family had many people who did not come to the US killed in the holocaust? Well, she answered, that was a long time ago and "white people are oppressed." Besides, "immigrants are overrunning the US." "I'm a US immigrant, answered my wife", and -- come to think of it -- the whole family could now be classified as French immigrants (I'm not sure about the difference between expats and immigrants).
We took care of her though she was annoyed at me and remains annoying. She talks to my wife but, despite hosting her for too long, hasn't talked to or thanked me.
When I moved here my parents said "the family barely escaped alive - many didn't - how can you move back there?" Now I'm hoping that they'll come join me. America, you have a serious problem.
70
Throw her out. She deserves no better.
16
You were too kind to her. "Friend" or not the line must be drawn somewhere. Her new philosophy is a threat to you and your family. As surreal as that may seem, it is none the less true.
7
"America, you have a serious problem". No, we have people with serious problems, including this girl in France. The dangerous thing is that they are so coddled by "tolerance" laws and "rights" that they think they're normal or even persecuted.
6
I have been thinking and rethinking our free speech concept in the US. For many years the ACLU- a wonderful organization- has protected the free speech of the far right. Germany took a different path after WWII: it is illegal to use the Nazi salute, have Nazi paraphernalia, march around with Swastikas. I have come to support Germany's position. It is clearly too dangerous- like yelling fire in a theater- to protect the right to say the things these white terrorists are saying. I hope that other people talk about this in this comment section.
39
After Charlottesville refused to issue a permit to hold the Unite the Right rally in a downtown park, the ACLU filed suit on behalf of the rally organizers and won its case. The ACLU then refused to accept any responsibility for the horror that happened during the rally. I no longer have any respect for the ACLU and refuse to support the organization in any way. Hate speech is not free speech.
4
When Roosevelt called Lindbergh a "Nazi," he knew exactly what he meant and was completely accurate.
20
Roosevelt's beliefs regarding the equality of te races and his conduct in office would surely qualify him as a Nazi by contemporary standards. Including, probably, your own.
1
It was a different world then. But Eleanor invited Marion Anderson to give a concert in the White House when the DAR snubbed her.
4
This article seems very unfair to the alt-right. Wouldn’t it be better for society if mainstream media columnists allowed for a range of social scientific and political opinions, and not just make broad-brush dismissals of everything outside their narrow band of allowed opinion? There are numerous thoughtful commentators from an alt-right perspective, and they provide a very valuable intellectual contribution. Many of them are shut out of the mainstream media because they mention human biodiversity, but if it is done politely and thoughtfully, and the evidence is treated carefully and respectfully, that should not make them objects of harsh attacks. The alt-right deserves to be given a fairer hearing than this article.
7
Politely? As in Charlottesville car ramming polite? Is this irony?
18
I'm trying to decide if this comment is meant to be taken ironically. If so, it's a bit too subtle. If not, it's truly disturbing. "Human biodiversity?!" I think you're cloking generalizations about the supposed relative capacities of human groups based on their physical characteristics and ethnic heritage--a.k.a. racism, sexism and antisemitism--in a pseudoscientific term. One can used the politest terms one would like to voice the arguments made by the alt-right, but those arguments will still be spurious and biased. It is they, not the media, whose claims are both "broad-brush" and "narrow." Arguments made in the media against the alt-right are based in the reality that the world is both much bigger and more complex than white supremacists and nativists would wish it to be.
And believe me, the ideas of the alt-right are not something new that could possibly increase our understanding of the world. The notion that they have not received a "fair hearing" is insupportable and ahistorical. They were the prevailing opinion in much of this country and wide swaths of the world for centuries.
If, on the other hand, this comment is meant to be taken ironically, you may have to broaden your sarcasm a little...
And believe me, the ideas of the alt-right are not something new that could possibly increase our understanding of the world. The notion that they have not received a "fair hearing" is insupportable and ahistorical. They were the prevailing opinion in much of this country and wide swaths of the world for centuries.
If, on the other hand, this comment is meant to be taken ironically, you may have to broaden your sarcasm a little...
12
The Nazis in Charlottesville were shouting the same slogans as 70 years ago. "Blood and soil?" "Jews are replacing us"? Orwell once called this "emitting sounds from the larynx with no participation from higher brain processes." We are not missing anything intelligent.
.
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13
The historical meaning of words while interesting doesn't really matter. All words in all languages evolve to apply to the context of the moment.
What really matters is when private anger becomes this free floating rage in the public and political sphere. It doesn't matter what the different flavors are because rage is unthinking and indiscriminate.
It is true that America's own past provides significant fodder for such movements. But that doesn't mean it is acceptable or that it is less dangerous in our modern world (one which possesses automatic rifles, IEDs, UAVs and nuclear weapons). The fact that these dark areas are coming to the light globally makes this a particularly dangerous time.
As for our leaders, they all seem to be asleep at the wheel. They are enamoured with wealth and power that they are blind and lazy. It is their own failure to address the economic problems that have grown over the past 30 years that gave these movements their energy.
What really matters is when private anger becomes this free floating rage in the public and political sphere. It doesn't matter what the different flavors are because rage is unthinking and indiscriminate.
It is true that America's own past provides significant fodder for such movements. But that doesn't mean it is acceptable or that it is less dangerous in our modern world (one which possesses automatic rifles, IEDs, UAVs and nuclear weapons). The fact that these dark areas are coming to the light globally makes this a particularly dangerous time.
As for our leaders, they all seem to be asleep at the wheel. They are enamoured with wealth and power that they are blind and lazy. It is their own failure to address the economic problems that have grown over the past 30 years that gave these movements their energy.
7
"It has also brought us to the point at which there can be earnest argument over whether we should consider a sitting president a Nazi sympathizer."
Overblown comments like this concern me more than Nazis do. The Nazis and the KKK are shadows of their former selves. No one, right or left, takes them seriously. There were maybe 300 or 400 in Charlottesville. There are maybe 10,000 across the United States.
These extremists are kooks and weirdos. Dangerous and evil, certainly. But extremists who have no more to do with mainstream conservatives (including Donald Trump) than radical Islamic terrorists have with mainstream Muslims.
When Donald Trump said there were many fine people in Charlottesville, he wasn't talking about the Nazis and the KKK. He was talking about the people who opposed taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee in what used to be Lee Park. Most Americans oppose that. As did at that time the mayor of Charlottesville, a Democrat.
When mobs of demonstrators take to the streets in Boston, Durham, and Berkeley to condemn right-wing protesters who have no connection to Nazis, we have a problem. When anti-fascists and anarchists viciously attack Nazi protesters and are praised rather than condemned, we have a problem.
Both of those problems are bigger, in my eyes, than a few sad souls who think the color of their skin makes them supreme and who are rightly reviled by everyone on the right from Donald Trump on down.
Overblown comments like this concern me more than Nazis do. The Nazis and the KKK are shadows of their former selves. No one, right or left, takes them seriously. There were maybe 300 or 400 in Charlottesville. There are maybe 10,000 across the United States.
These extremists are kooks and weirdos. Dangerous and evil, certainly. But extremists who have no more to do with mainstream conservatives (including Donald Trump) than radical Islamic terrorists have with mainstream Muslims.
When Donald Trump said there were many fine people in Charlottesville, he wasn't talking about the Nazis and the KKK. He was talking about the people who opposed taking down the statue of Robert E. Lee in what used to be Lee Park. Most Americans oppose that. As did at that time the mayor of Charlottesville, a Democrat.
When mobs of demonstrators take to the streets in Boston, Durham, and Berkeley to condemn right-wing protesters who have no connection to Nazis, we have a problem. When anti-fascists and anarchists viciously attack Nazi protesters and are praised rather than condemned, we have a problem.
Both of those problems are bigger, in my eyes, than a few sad souls who think the color of their skin makes them supreme and who are rightly reviled by everyone on the right from Donald Trump on down.
26
The phrase "mobs of demonstrators" exposes your bias.
9
You say that "most" Americans oppose removal of public statuary that glorifies men who deliberately fought against the United States? Where did you get that information?
Gen. Lee, Jefferson Davis, et al have their place in history, and while they may have been admirable to their confederates, that does not alter the fact that they were traitors who took up arms against our country.
As such, they and their cause certainly have a place in museums and history books, but not on display at taxpayer expense in public places where we venerate the values we all share and the people who have exemplified those values and defended them.
Gen. Lee, Jefferson Davis, et al have their place in history, and while they may have been admirable to their confederates, that does not alter the fact that they were traitors who took up arms against our country.
As such, they and their cause certainly have a place in museums and history books, but not on display at taxpayer expense in public places where we venerate the values we all share and the people who have exemplified those values and defended them.
8
There could be a lot more than you think, and they aren't all obvious "kooks and weirdos." Some of them pride themselves on their grooming and attire, in fact. Yes, Richard Spencer of "Heil Trump" fame, I'm talking about you. I'm sure some of the right-wing propaganda is fueled by bots and trolls, but there are plenty of angry men (they are usually men) who are just plain racist. It's not confined to one area of the country--in California we have plenty of white supremacist groups. Showing up in a college town armed to the teeth, carrying torches, and yelling about Jews is a fascinating definition of free speech. I don't remember anyone praising the "vicious" counter demonstrators, but you are very naive if you don't think the "right-wing protesters" have any connection to Nazis. In fact, I would call them Nazis.
11
They gather in support of maintaining a racist statue. They shout anti-semitic slogans. They are armed with guns. They carry torches. They brandish Nazi symbols. They use a Nazi salute. They call a protest that devolves to mob violence. A gun shot is fired into a crowd. A young woman is murdered by automobile. They call themselves Nazis.
Sasha Chapin's article doesn't convince me of anything.
Sasha Chapin's article doesn't convince me of anything.
37
The point is there were only about 300 Nazis in Charlottesville. That's less than 0.00001% of the American population. And that was probably most of them. The active ones, anyway.
How many people sympathize with those Nazis? That's harder to tell. But I'd guess about none. Certainly Donald Trump in the decades that he has been in the public eye has never said a single word in support of the Nazis.
How many people sympathize with those Nazis? That's harder to tell. But I'd guess about none. Certainly Donald Trump in the decades that he has been in the public eye has never said a single word in support of the Nazis.
2
"There are many fine people among them". This is where you defend your nazi president by telling me that is seven words, not a single one.
1
It teaches this American that one can be taught to hate.
I think it is particularly important to recognize that American racism has its own unique causes and deep roots. Saying it is "Nazi" is fine, but it risks obscuring the very American form of bigotry embodied in the white supremacist movement. As the article notes, the actual Nazis of Germany admired the US and held it up as an example of how to do racism and racial oppression and hierarchy well. The Nazis learned by the US. That has to say something about the rottenness that is at the core of the American state and that has culminated in someone like Trump.
38
The term "Nazi" for me, fully encapsulates what I oppose, racism and nationalism. And I knowingly use it as a pejorative epithet!
8
There are hordes of them. Oh they don't march and wave Swastikas, but although you could never get them to admit it, they sympathize and support the Nazi cause in this country because they and the Nazis have one thing in common: they both hate Jews and blacks and Hispanics and of course nowadays, Muslims. Over the years I've encountered many of them and yes, they and their kind have been around for well over 50 years.
36
There is just too much unnecessary analysis here, and in some ways under analysis.
Just because some people think Nazi means world war two and Germany, doesn't mean that is how most think. The US and all other "western powers' had their Nazi party, and "Nazi' is still being used today.
Is it being over-used. Depends. People are marching with the KKK and Nazi flag. Unless I had good reason to think otherwise, I would say they are Nazis and KKK. Until they issue a affirmative policy statement disavowing the policies of old, then they are Nazis and KKK. If people are joining it as a sign of protest and not really believing, well, to put it bluntly they should leave.
If someone were to be acting like a KKK or a Nazi then, they deserve that label.
Though I do agree, labeling people with a KKK or Nazi (who are not self labeled) is meaningless. You are a Nazi, and this is why, is what should come out.
Therefore if there were people we disagree with, who might be racist or tone death or have policies we really disagree with, it's still not proper to label people Nazi or KKK, if they don't meet the criteria. Plain racist, (assuming they are) is good enough. Labeling someone who is tone death, or ignorant racist would also be bad.
BTW: Soup Nazi, Grammar Nazi etc. I never tried to correct anyone who said that, but it's not a term I would use. Really. It shows ignorance, (not racism or anti-Semitism) but ignorance and perhaps a dose of Tone deafness.
Just because some people think Nazi means world war two and Germany, doesn't mean that is how most think. The US and all other "western powers' had their Nazi party, and "Nazi' is still being used today.
Is it being over-used. Depends. People are marching with the KKK and Nazi flag. Unless I had good reason to think otherwise, I would say they are Nazis and KKK. Until they issue a affirmative policy statement disavowing the policies of old, then they are Nazis and KKK. If people are joining it as a sign of protest and not really believing, well, to put it bluntly they should leave.
If someone were to be acting like a KKK or a Nazi then, they deserve that label.
Though I do agree, labeling people with a KKK or Nazi (who are not self labeled) is meaningless. You are a Nazi, and this is why, is what should come out.
Therefore if there were people we disagree with, who might be racist or tone death or have policies we really disagree with, it's still not proper to label people Nazi or KKK, if they don't meet the criteria. Plain racist, (assuming they are) is good enough. Labeling someone who is tone death, or ignorant racist would also be bad.
BTW: Soup Nazi, Grammar Nazi etc. I never tried to correct anyone who said that, but it's not a term I would use. Really. It shows ignorance, (not racism or anti-Semitism) but ignorance and perhaps a dose of Tone deafness.
1
Beautiful. Also, compare to the recent article investigating the source of Neo-Nazis pointing out that those who choose to wear the trappings of Nazis are making a more conscious choice to support genocide than most original Nazis ever did. The atrocities of the concentration camps were an unpleasant detail to be ignored or overlooked, and most were ignorant of them back during WWII. For today's Nazis, they are the attraction. Hideous.
11
I don't know what else to call someone who wears a swastika and uses the distinctive Nazi salute other than a Nazi. When I saw pictures of people waving the Confederate flag side by side with those clearly emulating Nazis I was both disgusted and horrified. Considering that both sides believe that white people are superior I guess it's not surprising that they would finally join forces here in the US.
We are a nation who saw the native inhabitants as inferior and worthy of genocide. We are a nation who fought a bloody civil war because the nation elected a president who had campaigned on the promise to contain slavery rather than expand it. Always since our founding the idea that white americans were superior to immigrants and people of color has lurked beneath the surface of this country.
Will we ever reject those who harbour such views or will we continue to downplay their existence. Jeff Sessions is a proud southern racist and he's in a position to use the law against people of color. Others like him are in public office across the country.
We may call ourselves a nation of immigrants but we are a nation of bigots. The question is what will we do about it. Will we empower those who march with tiki torches or will we reject them once and for all. Recognizing that we're all equal with the same rights isn't political correctness, it's a rejection of everything Nazis believe in.
We are a nation who saw the native inhabitants as inferior and worthy of genocide. We are a nation who fought a bloody civil war because the nation elected a president who had campaigned on the promise to contain slavery rather than expand it. Always since our founding the idea that white americans were superior to immigrants and people of color has lurked beneath the surface of this country.
Will we ever reject those who harbour such views or will we continue to downplay their existence. Jeff Sessions is a proud southern racist and he's in a position to use the law against people of color. Others like him are in public office across the country.
We may call ourselves a nation of immigrants but we are a nation of bigots. The question is what will we do about it. Will we empower those who march with tiki torches or will we reject them once and for all. Recognizing that we're all equal with the same rights isn't political correctness, it's a rejection of everything Nazis believe in.
30
I agree with the author that we do not have "" to engage in linguistic diplomacy " with the extremists that are hurting our Country . Any analogy is not by its own nature 100 % correct . Of course the Nazis killed millions of people and brought pain and destruction to Germany . But that is not what their supporters were hoping for at the beginning . I think the analogy holds because of the damage Trump could do to our Country and the World . The lesson we have to learn is that we are not that different from other peoples and countries . Human nature is one . We have been very successful so far as a Country . But for Democracy to work we have to vigilant . Call them what you want . It could be racist , white nationalists , alt-right , whatever . The term I like the most is " deplorables ' .
6
We should remember that the dedicated white supremacy agitators are a very, very small number in America, as evidenced by their small numbers in Charlottesville. However, we should be concerned that a far larger portion of the electorate, about 35% is deeply sympathetic to white supremacy and white nationalism, and sees our political landscape in racist terms, and does not really believe in one man one vote or the fundamental American strength of diversity.
15
The comparison is apt. The citronella-torch-carrying White Supremacists are Trump's Brown Shirts, and Charlottesville is their Kristallnacht.
We have two choices about how to respond to the rise of this new fascism: we can speak out, loudly, against it; or, we can be like "the good Germans" and pretend we don't see it in the hope that the evil will not touch us or our families.
The judgment of history has not been kind to those who stood by and did nothing. History will judge us by how we react, now.
We have two choices about how to respond to the rise of this new fascism: we can speak out, loudly, against it; or, we can be like "the good Germans" and pretend we don't see it in the hope that the evil will not touch us or our families.
The judgment of history has not been kind to those who stood by and did nothing. History will judge us by how we react, now.
12
Why would ones mind even go there? How many people has one ever met that espouse those repugnant beliefs? I have not met one single one in my entire life.
The Nazis with which I am familiar killed many members of my family during WWII. That definition will suffice for me. If today's "Americanized" version reflect some of those same characteristics then that definition still holds true and is applicable. On the other hand, fascism was not and is not unique to the Germans. We have plenty of fascists here and this last election has allowed many more of them to "come out of the closet". History may not repeat exactly but certain themes seem to be cyclical.
12
Isn't it cowardly to surrender our eyes, ears and brains and just let
Nazis rename themselves "alt-right"?
They openly use the swastika and say the same exact things the previous
Nazis said. They are a loud, vicious and ugly insult to our beautiful country, our war dead and all who fought them to defeat in WWII.
They openly declare their subversive intent to overthrow our government,
"the administrative state". They are hostile to the American way and threaten civil peace.
The NYT should set an example for the rest of the media and not collaborate (that IS the historical term) in promoting this Big Lie.
Nazis rename themselves "alt-right"?
They openly use the swastika and say the same exact things the previous
Nazis said. They are a loud, vicious and ugly insult to our beautiful country, our war dead and all who fought them to defeat in WWII.
They openly declare their subversive intent to overthrow our government,
"the administrative state". They are hostile to the American way and threaten civil peace.
The NYT should set an example for the rest of the media and not collaborate (that IS the historical term) in promoting this Big Lie.
7
I disagree. The term "Nazi" encourages the listener to take heed of the implications of the describing anyone with hate-based ideology. Whether the subject is truly a Nazi is immaterial. The connotations quickly emerge that the individual is full of hate or support hate thinking. I know many who would be offended to be called "Nazi", but are still aligned with the ideology on some plane or another. "Neo-Cofed" or "White Elitist" or whatever still carry the brand of Nazi in my mind. My grandfather fought in WWII to rid the world of groups who professed such elitism. It pains me to see his and millions of others spilt blood and anguish to go in vain. Punch a Nazi, you'll feel better.
3
Beautiful article regarding words to describe racists. I'm greatly heartened by the social media war of exposing these miscreants and hurting them where it counts like employment. I think sympathetic nazi collaborators will also find themselves challenged to fit into our modern and militantly humane society (I don't think passive universal kindness will help us develop a truly humane and all inclusive society)
2
If the goal is to persuasively debate the underlying ideas, I try to be specific in my reference: fascist white supremacist nationalism, which is as American as apple pie, though disappointingly high-syllable. Using the term "Nazi" is too easily dismissed as hyperbole, and tends to shut down a conversation...when there is one.
2
I honestly would like to know what percentage of white people are secretly racist. it is unfair that you can't tell. it is a fear that white people assume the worst when looking at a brown person (are they a terrorist...are they undocumented...do they speak English?). Is it going to be a growing isolating trend for the rest of us to look at white people and wonder what lurks beneath?
2
Personally I think the "racism" is overcounted. Liberals like to attribute Trump's election to racism. Personally I think a lot of the Trump vote was due to the abortion issue: the election was the best chance of getting Roe vs Wade overturned.
1
60% in my experience
The German film, "Die Welle" (The Wave) is an unsettling reminder of how easily masses of people can be brainwashed into a "Nazi" mindset.
What is disturbingly comical is what an insult it is to be called a "Nazi" but these "backward rubes" relish it. This defiance of logic in what one would expect from someone with any speck of self-respect is what is so confounding to rational people--and it is this confusion that they use to their advantage. It seems the key is to not let them push us to overanalyze them. They are the evil people and should be dealt with accordingly--not as an interesting sociological subgroup to study.
What is disturbingly comical is what an insult it is to be called a "Nazi" but these "backward rubes" relish it. This defiance of logic in what one would expect from someone with any speck of self-respect is what is so confounding to rational people--and it is this confusion that they use to their advantage. It seems the key is to not let them push us to overanalyze them. They are the evil people and should be dealt with accordingly--not as an interesting sociological subgroup to study.
3
It is a tragedy that when confronted with any problem we as a community spend so much time talking around it instead of about it. All of this analysis about "Nazi", its usage, it appositeness to this crowd, etc... is supposed to serve what exactly?
The real issue, and it is a serious one, is that there are only a few "Nazis" amongst our fellow citizens, but their impact is massive because of how the rest of us operate. To put it in perspective, there were only a small number of Pedophile priests raping young children in the Catholic Church. But by the vast majority of the non-rapist Priests and higher-ups engaging in a cover-up and avoidance of responsibility towards the victims, it became a massive problem and a soul-crushing and life-destroying evil on the victims.
In this case, the Republican party and the Right-wing media, including Foxnews, has been the amplifying force for the evil fomented by this small number of extremists. Whether it is Cliven Bundy or any of the other assorted lunatics, they gave them refuge, cover and open support. All of that has manifested into this national problem. We need to remind ourselves that these are just a few misled, mostly young, men, who need to be shown their way out of their morass. This need not be their permanent status. We need to stop being silent about the Predators whether in the Church or in our Polity. We need to name and shame them till they stop. And please enough with the pedantic analysis of the unimportant.
The real issue, and it is a serious one, is that there are only a few "Nazis" amongst our fellow citizens, but their impact is massive because of how the rest of us operate. To put it in perspective, there were only a small number of Pedophile priests raping young children in the Catholic Church. But by the vast majority of the non-rapist Priests and higher-ups engaging in a cover-up and avoidance of responsibility towards the victims, it became a massive problem and a soul-crushing and life-destroying evil on the victims.
In this case, the Republican party and the Right-wing media, including Foxnews, has been the amplifying force for the evil fomented by this small number of extremists. Whether it is Cliven Bundy or any of the other assorted lunatics, they gave them refuge, cover and open support. All of that has manifested into this national problem. We need to remind ourselves that these are just a few misled, mostly young, men, who need to be shown their way out of their morass. This need not be their permanent status. We need to stop being silent about the Predators whether in the Church or in our Polity. We need to name and shame them till they stop. And please enough with the pedantic analysis of the unimportant.
52
The article is about naming them
but 45's admin cut the funding of groups that are trying just that, reach out and rehabilitate these wayward souls. This only adds to the argument that 45, is truly a bigot and racist in his heart (just like his dad) with little or no capacity for empathy because it's all about him and only him.
The writer seems to think commentators were using the word nazis as a general insult. Actually they were calling them nazis because they were using nazi slogans that were weirdly irrevelant to the current situation, such as "blood and soil" or "Jews won't replace us". What else would you call them?
6
One would never guess from this article that the alt-right has an enormous number of bright and thoughtful people making cogent points about society and politics. The article just dismisses everything outside Manhattan cocktail chatter as Nazism or near-Nazism. People should read the alt-right on their own, and get a fairer perspective than this one-sided article.
1
As Chapin says, the same word can assume various forms over time, and evoke varied emotional responses. It's likely we'll hear Nazi applied less to soup and grammar now, and more specifically to the alt-right individuals who threaten their way to power via Trump's winking approval. However, I'm not sure that these are my study-buddies and neighbors, though I could be missing some of the subtext at the organic garden club sessions. I really don't want to be suspicious of too many of the people next door.
It's more than possible we are in for an increase in a Nazi or Nazi-like era, whether Trump is President or not. Our bent toward intense patriotism, our fear of economic downturns, and our willingness to give up our freedom for order all can create fertile ground for a post-Trump leader with the same mindset for manipulation but a higher social I.Q. Calling a Nazi a Nazi and a narcissist a psychopath can be crucial right now.
It's more than possible we are in for an increase in a Nazi or Nazi-like era, whether Trump is President or not. Our bent toward intense patriotism, our fear of economic downturns, and our willingness to give up our freedom for order all can create fertile ground for a post-Trump leader with the same mindset for manipulation but a higher social I.Q. Calling a Nazi a Nazi and a narcissist a psychopath can be crucial right now.
3
Eloquent essays on the true meaning and proper application of the word Nazi won't mean a thing to anyone being bludgeoned, bayoneted, lynched, gassed, run over by a car, or otherwise exterminated.
An important step in Hitler's rise to power was his victory in an election. The power of the vote is still in our hands -- despite obvious efforts to deny it -- and HOW we vote in 2018 and 2020 will either save us or add even more fuel to the bonfire of right-wing extremism.
An important step in Hitler's rise to power was his victory in an election. The power of the vote is still in our hands -- despite obvious efforts to deny it -- and HOW we vote in 2018 and 2020 will either save us or add even more fuel to the bonfire of right-wing extremism.
4
The last paragraph sums it up very well. Now if only the words "fascist" and "reactionary" were FINALLY acknowledged as the accurate words they are for most accurately labelling the two most prominent summary names for the overwhelming bulk of folks calling themselves "Republican". The lame-stream media has enabled these people to escape being called what they are, in the anti-factual (not to mention anti-logical and anti-scientific) effort to appear "unbiased". For the well-established meanings of these words are key to any of the typologies of political orientation which have been around for many decades. And, lest anyone presume wrongly that I am some species of Democrat, liberal, "progressive", leftist or somesuch, I have been pointing out for many years to others that I am a TRULY RADICAL CENTRIST, easily proven as such. And among the linguistic consequences of that understanding, I
usually refer to "Democrats" as what they are: Anti-democrats, just as another apropos appellation for "Republicans" is obvious: Anti-publicans. For any attempted objective or correctly neutral words must adhere as closely as possible to their core definitions. Otherwise one is self-censoring and being intellectually dishonest...not to mention anti-scientific. Indeed, that is one of the unstated implications of this piece about "Nazis".
usually refer to "Democrats" as what they are: Anti-democrats, just as another apropos appellation for "Republicans" is obvious: Anti-publicans. For any attempted objective or correctly neutral words must adhere as closely as possible to their core definitions. Otherwise one is self-censoring and being intellectually dishonest...not to mention anti-scientific. Indeed, that is one of the unstated implications of this piece about "Nazis".
Grew up as a kid in the USA next to a family of neo-Nazis....painted swastikas on our fence, and threw rocks through our windows; nothing different than "real" Nazis, other than they don't speak German.
7
"I'm a Nazi".
"What should we call you? "
"I'm a Nazi".
"Fascist? "
"I'm a Nazi. I believe whites are superior and that Jews are destroying civilization, using non-Europeans."
"Alt-right?"
"I'm a Nazi. I use swastikas for decorations and say 'Heil Hitler to my friends"
"Neo-fascist?"
"I'm a Nazi. I want a revolution in this country to overthrow ZOG."
"There must be some appropriate terminology for these people. "
"What should we call you? "
"I'm a Nazi".
"Fascist? "
"I'm a Nazi. I believe whites are superior and that Jews are destroying civilization, using non-Europeans."
"Alt-right?"
"I'm a Nazi. I use swastikas for decorations and say 'Heil Hitler to my friends"
"Neo-fascist?"
"I'm a Nazi. I want a revolution in this country to overthrow ZOG."
"There must be some appropriate terminology for these people. "
11
After gaining this context for the word, I will call them what they are - nazis. It fits. The author is absolutely spot on - "we do not have to engage in linguistic diplomacy with people who want to destroy us."
6
As a crude, but effective blanket terms, I'm more than happy with "Nazi" as a way to quickly refer to the various white nationalists, fascists, white supremacists, neo confederates, and extreme right groups, regardless of the nuances that differentiate their political or philosophical outlooks. This is especially true in the era of the "alt right," in which many of these extremists and bigots realize that their images are so tarnished that they need to come up with new "packaging" in order to attract more dupes and malcontents to their cause.
7
Truly an excellent analysis, thanks very much. Hopefully it will make me mindful to mind my terminology. And regardless of how precise we are in its use, I think Nazi is now permanently a reference of a threatening ideology, rather than a doofus. And I think it's an optimistic sign that most people, the world over, dislike being called nazi.
2
The young men I saw on TV, and on the Internet, were raising their arms in a Nazi salute; they were carrying some hand made banners/signs with a Swastika printed on them. They did not have to be specific about who they were and what they believed: they were an American version of German Nazis. The protesters were better armed than those brave young people known as the White Rose Society whose hearts were in the right place; they were beheaded. There is nothing to admire about the Nazis who tortured and murdered millions of innocent people. There is nothing to admire about those Germans who joined the SS. There is much to admire about those Germans who resisted, who sheltered their Jewish neighbors, who kept Jewish children as their own. We need to recognize those Germans who risked certain death for any kind of resistance to the Reich; we need to talk about them and educate our young people about them. The young people I saw were ignorant of the atrocities those salutes represented; they wanted to offend; they did not know how offensive they were to old Jewish people who survived what those salutes really meant. We have sterilized the history of the German Reich in high school history classes, even when I was in school a very long time ago. We sterilized the history of the Japanese internment policies. I knew about them, because I went to school with Japanese kids in the Central Valley, after the war ended.
4
"What term, then, is the right one? None — fascists, white nationalists, extremists — fully encompass the men and women in this mass. Watchdog groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center have spent decades tracing the intricate ideological differences among various fringe sects: neo-Confederates, neo-Nazis, Klansmen and so on. Yet when these impulses collect into one group, it’s impossible to arrive at a simple, low-syllable explanation of their particular ugliness."
I suggest the term "phobe," deriving from the Greek suffix meaning someone who hates something, since it is hate that unites their ugliness.
I suggest the term "phobe," deriving from the Greek suffix meaning someone who hates something, since it is hate that unites their ugliness.
"I suggest the term "phobe," deriving from the Greek suffix meaning someone who hates something"
No it doesn't. "Phobe" in Greek means fear, as in acrophobia, the fear of heights. The silly term "homophobia" ( which in Greek means "fear of sameness") has confused people into thinking that "phobe" is Greek for hate.
No it doesn't. "Phobe" in Greek means fear, as in acrophobia, the fear of heights. The silly term "homophobia" ( which in Greek means "fear of sameness") has confused people into thinking that "phobe" is Greek for hate.
1
It's good to realize that some racism hides, is in denial, and even unaware of itself. And other racism is unabashed, such as Nazism.
Years ago, on a date, a young woman confided to me that her father had once been a Nazi leader in San Diego, that he had kept a Nazi uniform in the closet, and that often neighbors wouldn't let their kids play with her or her brother because of such an association. Apparently he was a prosecutor in the DA's office in San Diego.
Then, as I continued to sit and listen in almost disbelief (a Nazi movement in San Diego?), she said simply, "It was really all about the Jews. He really hated them, and said the most horrible things."
Years ago, on a date, a young woman confided to me that her father had once been a Nazi leader in San Diego, that he had kept a Nazi uniform in the closet, and that often neighbors wouldn't let their kids play with her or her brother because of such an association. Apparently he was a prosecutor in the DA's office in San Diego.
Then, as I continued to sit and listen in almost disbelief (a Nazi movement in San Diego?), she said simply, "It was really all about the Jews. He really hated them, and said the most horrible things."
33
So this woman was excusing her father's Nazi tendencies as "only" being about the Jews. Where did his ancestors come from? Perhaps we should send him packing back there.
This story is completely believable. There were no Jews allowed to live in La Jolla, a wealthy town in S.D. until they chose to have a university (and a very fine top University called UC SanDiego) over a prison. Because at the time Jews were also restricted in numbers in schools like Harvard or Yale- many Jewish professors came to UCSD. When Jonas Salk invited Jacob Brownoski (and his family) to come and work at his institute- The Bronowski's, being Jewish, had a time buying the land near the university for their home- They had to get letters from English Lords and Ladies- Eventually, the covenant was completely broken.
Probably the new name for those that dream of a leader that enslave them like Hitler to the Germans would be "MM"... "Mental Minions."
"What term, then, is the right one? "
Phobes, people who hate. Period.
"-phobe Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/phobe
phobe definition, meaning, what is -phobe: someone who hates something"
Phobes, people who hate. Period.
"-phobe Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/phobe
phobe definition, meaning, what is -phobe: someone who hates something"
Nazi, Neo-Nazi, KKK, White Supremacists:
No matter the label, they are vile and dangerous.
No matter the label, they are vile and dangerous.
3
Interesting letter and I wish more people would read it The terms Nazi and fascist
are far too commonly used as fashionable insullts by people who have no idea what a real Nazi or Fascism is.
are far too commonly used as fashionable insullts by people who have no idea what a real Nazi or Fascism is.
2
"This is his first article for the magazine." More please!
1
Do you honestly think those people are heading for any sort of political power? Or is this yet another attempt to get the left all worked up against some sort of imagined "fascism" so that they can start justifying their own violence and fascist tendencies such as public shaming and suppressing first amendment rights. How about ignoring the people with offensive flags? Watch how fast they get bored and go home.
2
"Do you honestly think those people are heading for any sort of political power?" Yes, I do. In my state they wielded power until the 1960s.
A couple of years ago some thugs held a pogrom in a small town. They were caught and sentenced to twenty years in prison. That's what should be done with Nazis. ( Among other things, they were stupid enough to try working out a cover story over Email, and the police subpoenaed the Emails.)
A couple of years ago some thugs held a pogrom in a small town. They were caught and sentenced to twenty years in prison. That's what should be done with Nazis. ( Among other things, they were stupid enough to try working out a cover story over Email, and the police subpoenaed the Emails.)
4
Trump, bannon ( will proudly tell you he rebranded them as alt-right), sessions, miller, the pathetic little Hungarian man who literally wears his nazi cross, his wife, Pruitt, price......the list goes on. If you can't see them for what they are than you just might be one yourself
The Nazis, the white supremacists and those who tacitly support them have been socially unacceptable for decades. After sixty years, with a nod and a wink Donald Trump and those who enable him have now made it acceptable for these rats to come out of the sewers. However, they are on the wrong side of history, and we must make sure that the stench of what they are doing to the country will follow them for the rest of their lives.
7
No, Most Americans are not Nazis. However those that throw that slanted salute a making a deliberate effort to be unoriginal Trolling louts.
1
Given the current climate, I wonder whether “Nazi” will convey the sting with which it is intended. I mean, only those on the left view the term “Trump supporter” in a negative way. Trump supporters remain proud of this designation, ever more so the more Trump’s behavior alarms those of us who do not support him.
So too the American Nazi incarnate could feel elevated by the label. After all, the Nazi machine was flashy, well-oiled and efficient, supremely capable of accomplishing what they set about to do.
Will the cut-off collective we would disparage as Nazis ever achieve that organizational level? No. Will they feel flattered to be referred to by that name? Quite possibly.
So too the American Nazi incarnate could feel elevated by the label. After all, the Nazi machine was flashy, well-oiled and efficient, supremely capable of accomplishing what they set about to do.
Will the cut-off collective we would disparage as Nazis ever achieve that organizational level? No. Will they feel flattered to be referred to by that name? Quite possibly.
1
'Bavarian peasants were frequent subjects of German mockery, and “Nazi” became the archetypal name for a comic figure: a bumbling, dimwitted yokel'
and thus the same again - city intellectual elites mocking rural downhome good ol' boys holding their pitchforks - comfortable rationalists mocking unhappy gut feelings - bumbling uneducated yokels, what do they know !?
they know they're unhappy - so they voted in their preferred leader - just like Germany in 1933. Comfortable rationalists should change what they do if they hope to change the direction of the unhappy yokels, else the twain should never meet, except on the battlefield.
and thus the same again - city intellectual elites mocking rural downhome good ol' boys holding their pitchforks - comfortable rationalists mocking unhappy gut feelings - bumbling uneducated yokels, what do they know !?
they know they're unhappy - so they voted in their preferred leader - just like Germany in 1933. Comfortable rationalists should change what they do if they hope to change the direction of the unhappy yokels, else the twain should never meet, except on the battlefield.
You can't change their direction. That is a choice they have to make....and the overwhelming majority will not
'Nazi' encompasses the white supremacist beliefs, the desire for authoritarian government (dictatorship), and the ultra-nationalism that characterize people like those who marched by torchlight in Charlottesville.
1
A real tour de force of history and word usage. You could say, "haters of others, psychotics against different people, etc." However, nothing that I have ever read or said comes with the low-syllable, one-two punch of "nazi."
As long as WE don't have a common meaning for the nazi designation, it's a big crack in the door for the intellectual demogagues, like Spencer, to gain membership. The same goes,for the word, "racist."
But, go to the top of the heap, namely those that have power...read Trump, and I instinctively call them "collaborators!"
But, go to the top of the heap, namely those that have power...read Trump, and I instinctively call them "collaborators!"
3
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, Juliet said. Whose name, btw, in Italian means someone who is Italian.
Words mean what we say they mean, and they change often, at least somewhat: We used to praise something as "cool," then we later called the same "hot."
Words are a puff of air, when spoken, a tool of communication, an imperfect tool, but often gets the job done.
When shouted viciously in a hateful tone, we get the point well enough when someone calls his opponent a Nazi. When someone calls me a grammar nazi, I'm almost proud.
Words mean what we say they mean, and they change often, at least somewhat: We used to praise something as "cool," then we later called the same "hot."
Words are a puff of air, when spoken, a tool of communication, an imperfect tool, but often gets the job done.
When shouted viciously in a hateful tone, we get the point well enough when someone calls his opponent a Nazi. When someone calls me a grammar nazi, I'm almost proud.
1
While it’s interesting to contemplate what’s said here, the origin and proper application of the word Nazi will be the last thing on the mind of a person being bludgeoned, bayoneted, lynched, gassed, run over by a car, or otherwise exterminated.
An important step in Hitler's rise to power was his victory in an election. Despite GOP efforts to disenfranchise many progressive people, the power of the vote is still in our hands. How we use it in 2018 and 2020 will either save us or add even more fuel to the bonfire of right-wing extremism.
An important step in Hitler's rise to power was his victory in an election. Despite GOP efforts to disenfranchise many progressive people, the power of the vote is still in our hands. How we use it in 2018 and 2020 will either save us or add even more fuel to the bonfire of right-wing extremism.
7
"Online forums have concocted an imaginary alt-right country called Kekistan, whose flag is basically a Nazi flag, only green, with a cluster of Ks instead of a swastika."
This "imaginary alt-right country" should be renamed "Caccastan." I will leave it up to the reader's imagination to determine what it's inhabitants should be called.
Once we as a people get all of this Trumpfoolery behind us, I hope our next cultural-historical era will be known as "The Great Restorative Purgation." The return of American citizens to the spirit of democracy embodied in the form of a democratic republic--with its grounding in the rule of law--is long overdue.
It is imperative that we once again acknowledge that democratic institutions are designed to protect individuals against the evils promoted by both dictatorial authoritarians and majoritarian "populists": bias against and scapegoating of minorities, neglect of the vulnerable, rank political opportunism, consolidation of anti-democratic power, xenophobia, jingoism, abuse of power by governmental and economic elites, and conflicts of interest on the part of elected officials.
The 2018 elections, I hope, will announce the dawning of this new era.
This "imaginary alt-right country" should be renamed "Caccastan." I will leave it up to the reader's imagination to determine what it's inhabitants should be called.
Once we as a people get all of this Trumpfoolery behind us, I hope our next cultural-historical era will be known as "The Great Restorative Purgation." The return of American citizens to the spirit of democracy embodied in the form of a democratic republic--with its grounding in the rule of law--is long overdue.
It is imperative that we once again acknowledge that democratic institutions are designed to protect individuals against the evils promoted by both dictatorial authoritarians and majoritarian "populists": bias against and scapegoating of minorities, neglect of the vulnerable, rank political opportunism, consolidation of anti-democratic power, xenophobia, jingoism, abuse of power by governmental and economic elites, and conflicts of interest on the part of elected officials.
The 2018 elections, I hope, will announce the dawning of this new era.
2
Let me be a comment nazi then.
I would have thought that the term surf nazi derived not from occasional flirtation with nazi symbols by rebellious adolescents, but from a widespread direct application of one prominent nazi theme by surfers: lebensraum. The waves belong to them because they feel justified in deploying threats, intimidation and physical assault to keep it that way. At least that's my understanding of surf "culture".
Secondly, and sadly, Trump's opponent recognise his repeated and blatant appeasement aimed at seeking support from nazis, and nazis thank him publicly. So I'm not convinced there's doubt on any side that Trump is a nazi sympathiser?
I would have thought that the term surf nazi derived not from occasional flirtation with nazi symbols by rebellious adolescents, but from a widespread direct application of one prominent nazi theme by surfers: lebensraum. The waves belong to them because they feel justified in deploying threats, intimidation and physical assault to keep it that way. At least that's my understanding of surf "culture".
Secondly, and sadly, Trump's opponent recognise his repeated and blatant appeasement aimed at seeking support from nazis, and nazis thank him publicly. So I'm not convinced there's doubt on any side that Trump is a nazi sympathiser?
2
Yes, many of our fellow citizens are Nazis.
The only thing alarming is the number of Americans who are alarmed by this, and the similarly large number of Americans who are in denial of this.
And you will meet Nazis and their aiders and abettors in some of the "nicest" places.
The only thing alarming is the number of Americans who are alarmed by this, and the similarly large number of Americans who are in denial of this.
And you will meet Nazis and their aiders and abettors in some of the "nicest" places.
8
"Many" of our fellow citizens grossly exceeds the present quantity. There is however, a set of elected and non-electred people who use the same tool kit as the German Nazis, which is to appeal to the basest of human emotions to get themselves into and stay in power. Hitler and Mussolini were exceedingly clever, and today their replicants are installing their own theological, racist, national-chauvinist ("America first"), and war machine ideologies. But like the fascist countries of the 1930's, that quantity could accelerate precisely because the other main political party is so insipidly weak.
1
Reading any accurate history book on WW2, one discovers that there were always Nazis in America. They used to march in Skokie, IL, not that long ago.
"They used to march in Skokie, IL, not that long ago." And the ACLU complained that the poor thugs were having their rights endangered when their marching permit was revoked.
A journalist I'm not. Writing is not my thing. But I still want to say that I appreciate the history of your article but the it's relationship to recent history and your attempt to associate our current President with the new Nazi-ism. Remember that white supremacy was started by those in the democratic party who were also the defenders of slavery. Our President is white but he is no Nazi or white supremacist. But he is a capitalist which is the opposite of Hitler's racist socialist regime. Socialism is more the goal of many democratic leaders; Bernie Sanders for example. But we never seem to hear about that from the NVT.
Ironically, Charlottesville had its own Kristallnacht in November 2014 when leftist U. of Virginia students, after reading Sabrina Rubin Erdely's wholly fallacious "Rolling Stone" article about fraternity initiation gang rape on broken glass, smashed the windows of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity house. Rolling Stone later paid the fraternity $1.65 million to settle a libel lawsuit, but I'm not aware of any of the perpetrators of the night of broken glass being arrested.
2
After the 'original' Kristalnacht, many went on to cattle cars and concentration camps. After your Charlottesville 'Kristalnacht', the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity went on to a $1.65 million settlement.
Do I detect a trace of contrived equivalency?
Do I detect a trace of contrived equivalency?
2
I am of an age that when I was growing up, I met up with Jewish refugees and a number of concentration camp survivors.
Now, when friends or acquaintances say something that fits into the Nazi lexicon of thought, I confront them, asking - Why do you say something like that when you do realize that Hitler would have loved your volunteering that you believe that? He would have really been proud of you. Does that make you feel complete and happier?
Trump and his hoard aren't subtle about what they think. It is about time that decent people everywhere do the same thing.
Now, when friends or acquaintances say something that fits into the Nazi lexicon of thought, I confront them, asking - Why do you say something like that when you do realize that Hitler would have loved your volunteering that you believe that? He would have really been proud of you. Does that make you feel complete and happier?
Trump and his hoard aren't subtle about what they think. It is about time that decent people everywhere do the same thing.
2
Are Many of Our Fellow Citizens Nazis?
No, but many of our fellow citizens are idiots, which in a considerable number of
cases, amounts to the same thing.
No, but many of our fellow citizens are idiots, which in a considerable number of
cases, amounts to the same thing.
6
Is the current Nazi panic the red scare of our times?
(And keep in mind that communism and communists murdered far more people than have the Nazis.)
(And keep in mind that communism and communists murdered far more people than have the Nazis.)
1
Call these men what they are. White racists and white male supremacists and terrorists is what these sick men are. Among those who marched in Charlottesville with their tiki torches and AR-15 assault rifles and desire to instill terror there was nary a woman nor a person of color to be seen.
The recent uprising of angry white men in the USA is a reaction of basically loser impotent males who fear that they are being supplanted and surpassed by women and people of color. These men hate and resent women and people of color. Much of their anger comes from sexual frustration --- as males, they feel entitled to the use of women's bodies and as male supremacists they feel entitled to dominate, control and lord it over women and they are angry and sexually frustrated because women reject them. Women have brains and do not want to be involved with disgusting losers who are full of hatred for people and wildlife and whose sense of manhood is based on carrying a killing firearm.
The recent uprising of angry white men in the USA is a reaction of basically loser impotent males who fear that they are being supplanted and surpassed by women and people of color. These men hate and resent women and people of color. Much of their anger comes from sexual frustration --- as males, they feel entitled to the use of women's bodies and as male supremacists they feel entitled to dominate, control and lord it over women and they are angry and sexually frustrated because women reject them. Women have brains and do not want to be involved with disgusting losers who are full of hatred for people and wildlife and whose sense of manhood is based on carrying a killing firearm.
10
The one problem I have, when people use Nazis to describe alt-right and white supremacists, is that, it gives them "power". By evoking Nazis (which in its most twisted ways that gave us WWII, not to mention Holocaust and destruction of countries and millions of lives), we are somehow assigning power to the alt-right movement, as if they could indeed rise to a height equivalent to Hitler's Nazis. No, I don't want to give them such power. Call them as they are, bigots and idiots, nothing more.
On a different note, it should be noted that Nazis rose with a "mad genius" (not in a positive way) and charismatic leader in Hitler. As much as we loathe Trump, I consider him more clueless and idiotic than anything else. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely. He's the one we should be careful about.
More to the point, is the question of how we should treat alt-right (which has been hiding under the cloak of free speech). We know now that shaming them will not work as they'll just scream louder and right back at you. Violence against violence (as antifa do) should not be something that we aspire for. My way of dealing with it, is to totally ignore them. That would rob these power-hungry, attention-seeking crowds the power they are seeking.
On a different note, it should be noted that Nazis rose with a "mad genius" (not in a positive way) and charismatic leader in Hitler. As much as we loathe Trump, I consider him more clueless and idiotic than anything else. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely. He's the one we should be careful about.
More to the point, is the question of how we should treat alt-right (which has been hiding under the cloak of free speech). We know now that shaming them will not work as they'll just scream louder and right back at you. Violence against violence (as antifa do) should not be something that we aspire for. My way of dealing with it, is to totally ignore them. That would rob these power-hungry, attention-seeking crowds the power they are seeking.
21
The larger question here: is our president a covert "Nazi"? Why didn't he denounce the marchers, shouting hate?
There have always been anti-Semites among us. There has never been a president as stupid and hateful as this one, at least publcally.
There have always been anti-Semites among us. There has never been a president as stupid and hateful as this one, at least publcally.
7
First of all, stop perpetuating lies, most of them were yelling “you will not replace us”. I have no doubt there were some yelling “jews will not replace us“ but I am yet to find proof of majority yelling “jews” in Charlottesville. Again, they were yelling “you”, not “jew”.
Difference is most of the people protesting in Charlottesville were not Nazis or Nazi sympathizers or white supremacists. Stupid article by yet another fear monger and name caller.
Another issue is that you fail to recognize that when real Nazis rose up in Germany it was not because they wanted to just exterminate all non Germans but because they believed they were unfairly mistreated by those that won WWI. They believed they were punished too harshly. Antisemites just leeched onto that movement.
Just like most of the protestors today are angry and feel betrayed by political elite that wants to deny them their cultural heritage when there are far more important things to worry about. Yes, protesting regarding sculptures is stupid but that was not what brought about that incident.
Most of them are not bigots but if their needs are not met have a strong potential to turn into what you accuse them. You are creating a self fulfilling prophecy scenario. You are ignoring their grievances and leading them into a position and an image you choose to associate with them.
Difference is most of the people protesting in Charlottesville were not Nazis or Nazi sympathizers or white supremacists. Stupid article by yet another fear monger and name caller.
Another issue is that you fail to recognize that when real Nazis rose up in Germany it was not because they wanted to just exterminate all non Germans but because they believed they were unfairly mistreated by those that won WWI. They believed they were punished too harshly. Antisemites just leeched onto that movement.
Just like most of the protestors today are angry and feel betrayed by political elite that wants to deny them their cultural heritage when there are far more important things to worry about. Yes, protesting regarding sculptures is stupid but that was not what brought about that incident.
Most of them are not bigots but if their needs are not met have a strong potential to turn into what you accuse them. You are creating a self fulfilling prophecy scenario. You are ignoring their grievances and leading them into a position and an image you choose to associate with them.
1
Victims?
There is no need to focus on the usage of "Nazi" when the current operative word is "Nullification".
1
"...we do not have to engage in linguistic diplomacy with people who want to destroy us...
Then stop using the N-word...
The other N-word...
Then stop using the N-word...
The other N-word...
2
I welcome overt discussion about present-day Nazis and the rise in Nazi activity. Better the Nazi you know. If you can name it, you can talk it down before it really starts to take hold through insidious seep.
-Alle Chava Hall
-Alle Chava Hall
1
According to the DSM-5, Approximately 1% of the population has antisocial personality disorder. The defining pathology is that people don't respect other people's rights. The disorder is more commonly seen in men (3:1) and affects 40% of the prison population. People with this disorder are naturally attracted to hate groups like the Nazis.
If they wore foil hats, we would recognize their pathology. Nevertheless, they are psychopaths and need to be treated as such.
Jesus said forgive your enemies, but never turn your back on a person with antisocial personality disorder. I'm sure it is in 2 Corinthians.
If they wore foil hats, we would recognize their pathology. Nevertheless, they are psychopaths and need to be treated as such.
Jesus said forgive your enemies, but never turn your back on a person with antisocial personality disorder. I'm sure it is in 2 Corinthians.
6
Very interesting history lesson, but it is really very simple. They hate Jews, anyone who is not white, want the Caucasian race to rule the world etc., etc. Name them the simplest, most derogatory, unambiguous word you can find. Nazi sounds about right to me. Then go watch film clips of concentration camps in WW2 in case you have a moment of doubt. The people marching in Charlottesville think that is their idea of a good time.
6
"Nazi" is a short form of National Socialist Worker's Party. So every time you accuse someone of being a Nazi, you are accusing them of being a Socialist. But aren't NYT readers rather keen on Socialism? Oh dear, what complications!
"Socialist" in Europe just meant "democratic". And of course the Nazis were neither.
4
Hitler *coopted* the German National Socialist Worker's Party. He himself was not the slightest bit interested in having Germany be a socialist country. This fact only became obvious to everyone after he had completely consolidated political power.
7
As always, the media is loathe to point out that we are a nation of 320 million people, so you can find a few hundred of virtually anything. But few things generate clicks more reliably than pretending Nazis are taking over.
1
Are you serious? A nation run by the beneficiaries of Nixon's racist southern strategy has self identified nazis and KKK'ers running amok and your surprised? Are you simple?
We didn't call them nazis, they call themselves nazis. Are you making excuses for them because theyre too stupid to understand? Theyre not. They were coddled by the GOP, given respect and a place at the table.
You can play word games all you like.
they are nazi's and the war declared on them was never put to bed. we made peace with the german people not the nazis'
as far as I am concerned we better start acting like we are at war and do to them what this country has always done to nazis. ask Gen Patton he knew how to treat a nazi
We didn't call them nazis, they call themselves nazis. Are you making excuses for them because theyre too stupid to understand? Theyre not. They were coddled by the GOP, given respect and a place at the table.
You can play word games all you like.
they are nazi's and the war declared on them was never put to bed. we made peace with the german people not the nazis'
as far as I am concerned we better start acting like we are at war and do to them what this country has always done to nazis. ask Gen Patton he knew how to treat a nazi
4
As long as everyone at the New York Times will be referred to as a communist, it'll be fair.
1
"Nazi" is not the correct term? Then how about "deplorables"?
7
To most Americans, the word 'Nazi' means an anti-Semite who wants to put the Jews in ovens and destroy their financial and economic dominance. It should not be used lightly and needs to be monitored closely.
"Nazi, schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.
--Tom Lehrer
--Tom Lehrer
1
Old Nazis: Southern German Hicks. New Nazis: Southern Trump Hicks. History really does rhyme. And, Thanks, GOP.
8
You lost me at SPLC
I don't like people who wish to push their beliefs upon me (or over my dead body).
A bigot/xenophobe by any term is no damn good.
Just sayin...
A bigot/xenophobe by any term is no damn good.
Just sayin...
4
Excellent, thoughtful and informative article.
Regarding surf culture, I recall the use of the Iron Cross (not specifically a Nazi symbol, but the implication was pretty clear) in the 60s, and the quote about upsetting parents. But by the early 80s the term "surf Nazi" signified groups of locals who violently discouraged "outsiders" from using public beaches, making comparison to the brown-shirts more literal. Eventually a punk band picked up the name; their best-known song was called My Wave. Fairly recently a group of rich old men in Palos Verdes were finally prosecuted for decades of gang violence.
It's a wise parent who ignores petty provocations. But it's an unwise society that ignores decades of violence. Or armed groups marching in the streets for the purpose of intimidating whole segments of the population.
Regarding surf culture, I recall the use of the Iron Cross (not specifically a Nazi symbol, but the implication was pretty clear) in the 60s, and the quote about upsetting parents. But by the early 80s the term "surf Nazi" signified groups of locals who violently discouraged "outsiders" from using public beaches, making comparison to the brown-shirts more literal. Eventually a punk band picked up the name; their best-known song was called My Wave. Fairly recently a group of rich old men in Palos Verdes were finally prosecuted for decades of gang violence.
It's a wise parent who ignores petty provocations. But it's an unwise society that ignores decades of violence. Or armed groups marching in the streets for the purpose of intimidating whole segments of the population.
3
When I saw the headline for this piece, the first question that came to my mind was "Why?" Why are these groups forming? How did these people get to think this way? What can we do to make sure our children don't adopt this hatred? What is going on in our society that is making this happen? It is horrifying to watch the hatred these people feel towards anyone who is not like them.
7
Wonderful piece. I learned a lot I did not know about the etymology of the word "Nazi."
The United States has never gone through the truth and reconciliation process regarding our history of slavery, racism and genocide, as have other nations that have faced up to such tragic histories. Germany, Rwanda and South Africa spring immediately to mind. Absent a formal catharsis, the U.S. languishes in a moral limbo, and framework of healing remains out of reach.
The question is open: will history in centuries to come record that the United States was founded on laudable ideals, but was unable to find absolution for its shameful past, and thus tore itself apart? The likelihood of this fate is increasing.
The United States has never gone through the truth and reconciliation process regarding our history of slavery, racism and genocide, as have other nations that have faced up to such tragic histories. Germany, Rwanda and South Africa spring immediately to mind. Absent a formal catharsis, the U.S. languishes in a moral limbo, and framework of healing remains out of reach.
The question is open: will history in centuries to come record that the United States was founded on laudable ideals, but was unable to find absolution for its shameful past, and thus tore itself apart? The likelihood of this fate is increasing.
5
I like this essay and agree, but the title is pointing in a different direction.
Great argument. Thanks.
15
Quite difficult to imagine anyone in his or her right mind would identify with such thought. They must be very frightened people, hardly the superior "race" claimed when physical violence is their fallback position.
With regard to our own electoral choice as well as North Korea's open belligerence this is a difficult time for all of us, but racism of any sort will not solve any problems and through the separation it causes only alienate us at a time when we need unity as a people.
The only guaranteed result of gatherings such as Charlottesville is to further divide the very groups of people who are being affected by the continual socio economic results of our system which excludes people regardless their skin color.
The aged divide and conquer rule is on full display in almost every utterance of our increasingly divisive President who far from being an essentially thoughtless man is bludgeoning our national psyche.
Racism will exist as long as economic disparity demands someone, other than the real perpetrators, be held accountable for that divide. I am not aware of the wealthy lining the trenches or in other ways ever putting their bodies on the line and physically leading a revolt against poverty.
Like their predecessors in Nuremberg, those who marched with torches in Charlottesville were being thoughtfully exploited by a class of people few of us will ever meet.
With regard to our own electoral choice as well as North Korea's open belligerence this is a difficult time for all of us, but racism of any sort will not solve any problems and through the separation it causes only alienate us at a time when we need unity as a people.
The only guaranteed result of gatherings such as Charlottesville is to further divide the very groups of people who are being affected by the continual socio economic results of our system which excludes people regardless their skin color.
The aged divide and conquer rule is on full display in almost every utterance of our increasingly divisive President who far from being an essentially thoughtless man is bludgeoning our national psyche.
Racism will exist as long as economic disparity demands someone, other than the real perpetrators, be held accountable for that divide. I am not aware of the wealthy lining the trenches or in other ways ever putting their bodies on the line and physically leading a revolt against poverty.
Like their predecessors in Nuremberg, those who marched with torches in Charlottesville were being thoughtfully exploited by a class of people few of us will ever meet.
52
The emergence of what used to be thought of as a fringe group into the mainstream is a constant reminder that the battle for a fair and just society, that open and democratic ideals and that a meritocracy needs constant attention. These 'elements' exist in every society. They seem to have become much more prominent under the campaign and leadership of President Trump, who seems to have a cult following - based on mostly white men, who feel that they are being replaced and have lost their position of privilege in society. There are of course many other factors that contributed to his rise and current status in American society - but his one factor cannot be overlooked. This turn of events will require a whole lot of soul searching if we are going to get ourselves back on track.
45
I was raised to believe that humanity was on an ever ascending path toward an "enlightened" society. I was misled. My dad told me, " a few more funerals and the old guard will be gone." He was wrong. Ignorance is a powerful force, and it is on the rise. What can we do? What can we do?
106
Times change, but people don't. We have a republic, if we can keep it.
Tim Snyder, history professor and author, wrote the following four points based on his study of 20th century totalitarianism. Find the rest of the 20 online.
1. Do not obey in advance. Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You've already done this, haven't you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.
2. Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don't protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.
3. Recall professional ethics. When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.
4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words. Look out for the expansive use of "terrorism" and "extremism." Be alive to the fatal notions of "exception" and "emergency." Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.
1. Do not obey in advance. Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You've already done this, haven't you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.
2. Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don't protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.
3. Recall professional ethics. When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.
4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words. Look out for the expansive use of "terrorism" and "extremism." Be alive to the fatal notions of "exception" and "emergency." Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.
6
We can read the transcendentalist philosophers like Ralph Waldo Emerson and see what they thought of human nature in the 19th century, for a starter...
1
What a thoughtful, incisive article. I learned so much from it. Thanks!
54
From the inclusion of "alt-right" members on the White House staff, the ease of access to the president by right-wing organizations, including FAIR and CIS, and the influence of Breitbart, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Sinclair and Fox news outlets, et. al., it is clear that Trump is being actively supported by and clearly sympathizes with the despicable agenda that this so-called "alt-right" espouses. His pardon of Arpaio is further evidence of his radical-right leanings. Thus, calling Trump a "Nazi-sympathizer" is inaccurate because only partially describes his support of these many synergistic groups.
The most disturbing aspect of the resurgence and overt identification of members in the Nazi movement is not in whether or not one identifies with that particular label, but the fact that it represents only one part of the overarching organizational assault of the principles on which this country was founded.