It is no less than this...if you are not white Anglo-Saxon Protestant straight and male...you are nothing in the United States. But less us not blame Donald Trump alone. I am sorry but the Republican Party since Goldwater, Nixon, and Reagan helped to bring us to where we are today. In my lifetime the dog whistles of race and baiting riled poor and uneducated whites to believe in malice and aspire to bigotry, prejudice and hate all the while their own futures were dismantled by the destruction of labor unions, decent wages and sellouts to big businesses. For so long Christianity has been used in the USA as a an excuse for slavery. Law and order, and "the rule of law" has been exploited to cover up oppression of minorities. What Donald Trump is trying to do is finish where Reagan, Nixon, Atwater, and Cheney left off : to give every resource, every opportunity, every tax cut, every legal break to the WASP married male. This is really what 'making America great again' is all about.
8
My fellow Canadians let's encourage the Dreamers to immigrate to Canada, with our point system many would be eligible, the waves of American refugees fleeing oppression in the US have enriched Canada, at least 100,000 during the revolt against Great Britain and 250,000 during the Vietnam catastrophe.
7
Another article here says Congress has 6 months to solve a problem that has been over 10 years in the making.
Good!
Let Congress solve it. That's their job. If they don't solve it, and people do not like the answer, they will respond at the polls, and maybe we will get better representatives. Letting the president or the judiciary fix problems that our elected representatives do not have the courage to fix is no way to run a country. The problems are usually very contentious, and the president and courts decide strictly on political grounds--but they are not representative of the people. So let it go back to the true political cauldron--the legislature--to get hammered out so that no one has the right to complain, and if they do feel they have a beef, they always have redress through the court of public opinion and their representative.
GO DEMOCRACY!
Good!
Let Congress solve it. That's their job. If they don't solve it, and people do not like the answer, they will respond at the polls, and maybe we will get better representatives. Letting the president or the judiciary fix problems that our elected representatives do not have the courage to fix is no way to run a country. The problems are usually very contentious, and the president and courts decide strictly on political grounds--but they are not representative of the people. So let it go back to the true political cauldron--the legislature--to get hammered out so that no one has the right to complain, and if they do feel they have a beef, they always have redress through the court of public opinion and their representative.
GO DEMOCRACY!
9
What do they do now? Get out of the country. You did not belong here before and you do not belong her more. Save us the lecture on acceptance and tolerance. Illegals are illegals no matter how you slice it! Adios!!
11
President Obama has the best statements on ending DACA!
4
I disagree with Trump's decision... but I wouldn't call it "expansive cruelty". Mexico is by no
means a failed state; it's a robust democracy with a strong middle class for folks with an education. These DACA children are [for the most part] bilingual, US-educated, and with family ties in the country of their birth. Honestly, Trump's decision is a win for Mexico, and probably a loss for the US.
means a failed state; it's a robust democracy with a strong middle class for folks with an education. These DACA children are [for the most part] bilingual, US-educated, and with family ties in the country of their birth. Honestly, Trump's decision is a win for Mexico, and probably a loss for the US.
9
DACA is nothing more than an attempt by the disgusting illegal immigrant parents to use their children to find a way to live legally here in the USA. Deport them all and support legal immigration. These people all have family they can go live with in their origin country.
15
They could start by having a frank discussion with their parents or the other responsible persons who brought them into the USA illegally. Thousands upon thousands of non-US citizens are waiting in line with the appropriate paperwork today and these are the people who should be given priority, not those who continue to disregard immigration law.
19
I'm sick of Republicans all day claiming that Obama's DACA executive order was "illegal" since it was never declared to be so in any court. Moreover, the Republicans are now screaming that the Dreamers' situation could only be addressed by Congress. Well there was the bi-partisan Dream Act that John Boehner never allowed to come to the floor of the House. Hence the Obama executive order.
Republicans are thoroughly and firmly to blame for everything they want to call "Obama's fault" or mischaracterize as "illegal."
Now they can prove their good will, if they care to. They can pass the Bridge Act and then pass the Dream Act as they should have years ago. The hypocrisy of these legislators is totally nauseating. They must be voted out of office. They are already ruining our nation. They must not be allowed to destroy our social fabric further.
Republicans are thoroughly and firmly to blame for everything they want to call "Obama's fault" or mischaracterize as "illegal."
Now they can prove their good will, if they care to. They can pass the Bridge Act and then pass the Dream Act as they should have years ago. The hypocrisy of these legislators is totally nauseating. They must be voted out of office. They are already ruining our nation. They must not be allowed to destroy our social fabric further.
17
Another horrid decision by the worst Prez we ever had in office. I don't know if we will have a functioning country to elect anyone to in 2020!
11
Maybe the President should pardon the "Dreamers" just like he pardoned Joe Arpaio.
11
I enjoyed reading this article, thank you
1
Trump in true form once again by preying on the vulnerable to score political points with his base. Now, if the worst case becomes a reality, he will claim that Congress is at fault and that he is the defender of "downtrodden" white America. A win-win for Trump, a blow to the U.S. economy, the Constitution and morality. Attention Congress - your yellow stripe of cowardice has just gotten yellower.
4
April 2018
Kabul, Afghanistan
Dear Sgt. Juan Miguel Rodrigues:
Please be advised that your DACA protection has expired.
You are in "America" illegally.
You have to go.
Please pack your gear and report to the military aircraft waiting to return you to your home in Mexico or Honduras or Venezuela or wherever.
And always know....
I love DACA's like they are my own children.
Love
Donald Trump
Kabul, Afghanistan
Dear Sgt. Juan Miguel Rodrigues:
Please be advised that your DACA protection has expired.
You are in "America" illegally.
You have to go.
Please pack your gear and report to the military aircraft waiting to return you to your home in Mexico or Honduras or Venezuela or wherever.
And always know....
I love DACA's like they are my own children.
Love
Donald Trump
6
Forget about the DACA recipients for a moment. Think about the anti-immigrant stance of Trump's base. They often say they are in favor of legal immigration but this is not true. They are motivated, first and foremost, by xenophobia, envy and malice. Because most of them are dismal failures, they hate successful and prosperous immigrants. You just need to listen to high-school dropouts yelling that immigrants steal high-tech jobs; to the morbidly obese welfare recipients spewing hatred against agriculture workers laboring in fields all day; to those native speakers who cannot write a complete sentence demanding that immigrants learn English (quite a lot of those commenting on this thread). I have news for you: you may kick immigrant kids when they are down, but it won't raise you up. You'll still be dying of opioid overdose while immigrants go to college and start businesses,
19
We have reached a new low...ashamed of this so called president, ashamed of America
7
What about America's dreamers? Where are the special programs for them?
9
"In an interview President Trump gave days after his inauguration, he said that he was looking at the DACA program with a 'big heart.'"
Where most people have a heart, Donald Trump has a black hole.
Where most people have a heart, Donald Trump has a black hole.
8
Track down the parents that committed the crimes and confiscate their belongings.
6
Absurd amounts of time and money are being wasted on this. So we will deport these people to places they have never been, some of whom have US born citizen children? And who came here as children without a say? This is complete nonsense for a nation that's already too old to maintain its population without immigrants.
12
Run it through the calculator. Picking up 800,000 or the 11 million is not cost effective. Process the 11million. Get them on a payment plan for paying back taxes before giving them citizenship. If they don't want to pay put them on the next bus or plane. While we are doing this, tighten up the borders, deport people who overstay their visit or visa immediately. Legal Immigration going forward. Enough of this. This is a waste of time and money. This is an economic issue. Let's leave everyone's emotions out of it.
6
"You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one"
-John Lennon, "Imagine..."
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one"
-John Lennon, "Imagine..."
8
Here's what Constitutional Amendment 14, section 2 says on this topic:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the State in which they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" (Section 2, Amendment 14)
Trump's action to try to end DACA is a national disgrace. And one more vicious, vengeful move against immigrants and Obama's two term administration. It also is clearly illegal under the Constitution.
This swinish, fraudulent president must resign or be ousted.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the State in which they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" (Section 2, Amendment 14)
Trump's action to try to end DACA is a national disgrace. And one more vicious, vengeful move against immigrants and Obama's two term administration. It also is clearly illegal under the Constitution.
This swinish, fraudulent president must resign or be ousted.
5
You clearly can't comprehend the amendment if you believe that ending DACA is illegal under the Constitution. The Constitution lays out - in very specific terms - criteria which DACA persons do not meet.
10
Trump did this to protect his base voters. he can say he did what he promised, then blame on congress when they reinstate it. with 326 million people, with only about 30% people supporting Trump. why cant the rest get up of their chairs and fight back? There is power in numbers, no need for violence and words provide power in numbers.
https://impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/
https://impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org/
3
And here's to the elephant in the room...
Given the views of the present administration, one has to wonder if all this fuss about illegal immigrants would occur if they came from Sweden, England, or some other 'fair' country.
Just wondering.
Given the views of the present administration, one has to wonder if all this fuss about illegal immigrants would occur if they came from Sweden, England, or some other 'fair' country.
Just wondering.
7
We are a nation of laws and legal immigration. Our generosity and compassion are both our strength and weakness. Million have migrated legally, waited for years and obtained their visa to enter lawfully; other have crossed illegally knowing that a better than an average chance will allow them to stay illegally. To these illegal aliens America is a land of mercy, altruism and amnesty. In 1982 2.7 illegal aliens granted amnesty; in 1994, 578,000 granted amnesty; 1994, 900,000; 1998, 125,000; 2000, 900,000. No need for rule of law. Cross the border, over stay your visa, stay illegally and in time, America's forgiving nature will allow illegals to stay. Why wait for years through legal channels, follow the illegal method and amnesty will follow. America is a nation of laws; however, if you choose to ignore immigration laws there is no repercussion nor punitive action. The rhetoric of debate concerning illegal immigration has evolved from illegal to undocumented and finally to immigration; making a dialectic of illegal to legal immigration !
10
I hope that the low info Trump voters in the Midwest and South are ready to step in and provide the initiative, enterprise, resourcefulness and willingness to work like these immigrants do. Based what we saw from the Charlottesville righties I have my doubts.
2
This is all Obama's fault for giving them a false hope.
Also any DACA legislation must include the elimination of anchor babies.
Also any DACA legislation must include the elimination of anchor babies.
8
From Dreamers to Doubters, soon Detainees and Deportees, 800,000 young and Desperate immigrants are Distorted and Dissembled with such a simple sweep of a pen. And all for mere Distraction and Deflection.
Disgusting and Disturbing
Disgusting and Disturbing
2
Now is the time to prosecute Mrs. Trump, who broke the law by working here without the proper papers.
3
Message to Senator Schumer: Filibuster Harvey relief until DACA passes
1
I think that the DACA recipients should have a special path to citizenship. If they are still in school, or have completed their education, are working or likely to be working in a reasonable time, they should be granted green card status. Then they can follow the normal course to citizenship. Anything less would be a travesty, as these children have no other country they can call home.
These young people contribute to our economy and our society; they should be given the opportunity to remain legally.
These young people contribute to our economy and our society; they should be given the opportunity to remain legally.
3
Trump said he would be "compassionate" with the Dreamers. His definition of compassionate is different than any in a dictionary.
Did he decide to be "un-compassionate' or does he not know the meaning of compassionate?
Did he decide to be "un-compassionate' or does he not know the meaning of compassionate?
2
This is always the answer for Trump shenanigans: Trump is a liar foremost; and since he cannot remember his lies, he doesn't even know that he is a liar. Nothing else about Trump is even closely relevant.
The dismantling of America and American values is continuing and such a breakneck pace that I don't know if after four years of President Trump I will even remember what America once was.
Instead of Make America Great Again, it has become Make America Hate Again.
While I am not a fan of Executive Orders and feel Congress should make laws, Obama had no choice since the Congressional GOP was set on obstruction from the day after his first electoral victory.
Trump throws this issue into such a dysfunctional GOP controlled Congress that there is no way they can get anything comprehensive,and compassionate into any form of law in six months.
He has abdicated all responsibility of the issue, under the guise of expectations of Congress doing their job. When there is a large amount of evidence that Congress is not and cannot function in its current state, it is irresponsible to put the fate of people's lives and futures at the hands of the hapless.
If Congress does take this up, it will become quickly evident how bigoted and racist many GOP Congressional members are. From that is the hope that they will be removed from office, although with the House, gerrymandering is an issue.
This however, doesn't offer any immediate help, answers or assurances to those that thought the country of their childhood was their home.
Instead of Make America Great Again, it has become Make America Hate Again.
While I am not a fan of Executive Orders and feel Congress should make laws, Obama had no choice since the Congressional GOP was set on obstruction from the day after his first electoral victory.
Trump throws this issue into such a dysfunctional GOP controlled Congress that there is no way they can get anything comprehensive,and compassionate into any form of law in six months.
He has abdicated all responsibility of the issue, under the guise of expectations of Congress doing their job. When there is a large amount of evidence that Congress is not and cannot function in its current state, it is irresponsible to put the fate of people's lives and futures at the hands of the hapless.
If Congress does take this up, it will become quickly evident how bigoted and racist many GOP Congressional members are. From that is the hope that they will be removed from office, although with the House, gerrymandering is an issue.
This however, doesn't offer any immediate help, answers or assurances to those that thought the country of their childhood was their home.
4
Seems to me that where once Americans viewed U.S. citizenship as a gift and a privilege to be shared generously with all who would seek refuge here, today too many Americans view it as theirs to jealously hoard, as if it were something they earned merely by having popped out of the womb in a fortuitous location.
7
It might be a good idea for Trump supporter, those that are in their late 30's, 40s and early 50s to stop this train of thought that are against DACA to talk to economists, including conservatives. https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/the-very-bad-economics-of-k..., obviously a liberal economist says that when you all retire there won't be enough "native born" Americans to support your Social Security payments, Why? you ask? a shrinking population, Americans, like most Western Europeans have slowed or stopped production. Ask the Russians, the Finns, the Japanese, and most other advanced countries.
If you don't have a young population supporting your retirement, your payments shrink as well. The situation gets worse from there under a negative growth scenario.
So, in your own self interest you should support immigration. It is somewhat akin to patients waiting for kidney, heart or some other organ donation. When your life depends on you are not asking if the donor was your own race etc.
If you don't have a young population supporting your retirement, your payments shrink as well. The situation gets worse from there under a negative growth scenario.
So, in your own self interest you should support immigration. It is somewhat akin to patients waiting for kidney, heart or some other organ donation. When your life depends on you are not asking if the donor was your own race etc.
2
This should be so far down the President's priority list. This sort of action tells you exactly how lost Trump is. Health Care, Debt Ceiling, Budget deficit, National Debt, Social Security, Medicare, Immigration Reform, North Korea, Tax Reform...
Fix the top ten on the list and then you can start thinking about going after the kids who came in here illegally.
Fix the top ten on the list and then you can start thinking about going after the kids who came in here illegally.
3
I am a legal immigrant married to a legal immigrant who is not white....before race or similar issues are raised.
The original exec order should have lead to legislative action - it didn't. Trump - like or dislike, has now forced the issue before the courts forced the issue - and let's be clear we all know the EO was unconstitutional. Congress needs to pass comprehensive reform period. FYI - The US has a far more tolerant immigration system than Canada or Mexico. If congress fails - vote!
Surely all readers agree that congress should pass the legislation and the exec branch enact, subject judicial review. Failure of this concept means that, when your party is in opposition, the President - with no review or basis can do anything they want to. Today it's immigration - tomorrow it could cover religious freedom or voting rights restrictions. The constitution was setup for a reason and has worked. Follow it - however painful. Trust in it but remember we need to hold our representatives accountable. But also remember we (us and the political hacks that run the country) have one duty above all - to the American People first - to our kids. It doesn't mean we ignore others but that we help people who are here legally first. Is that unreasonable? Our laws matter - enforce them or we are no better than a tin pot dictatorship.
The original exec order should have lead to legislative action - it didn't. Trump - like or dislike, has now forced the issue before the courts forced the issue - and let's be clear we all know the EO was unconstitutional. Congress needs to pass comprehensive reform period. FYI - The US has a far more tolerant immigration system than Canada or Mexico. If congress fails - vote!
Surely all readers agree that congress should pass the legislation and the exec branch enact, subject judicial review. Failure of this concept means that, when your party is in opposition, the President - with no review or basis can do anything they want to. Today it's immigration - tomorrow it could cover religious freedom or voting rights restrictions. The constitution was setup for a reason and has worked. Follow it - however painful. Trust in it but remember we need to hold our representatives accountable. But also remember we (us and the political hacks that run the country) have one duty above all - to the American People first - to our kids. It doesn't mean we ignore others but that we help people who are here legally first. Is that unreasonable? Our laws matter - enforce them or we are no better than a tin pot dictatorship.
9
"The White House claims that DACA, which President Barack Obama announced in 2012 and which has broad bipartisan support, is illegal"
If this has the broad bipartisan support that is claimed here, there should be no problem passing a law that makes DACA recipients eligible for US residency. Let's see how our congress responds. I'm pretty sure the Democrats will be for it. Lets see if there are any bipartisan Republicans.
If this has the broad bipartisan support that is claimed here, there should be no problem passing a law that makes DACA recipients eligible for US residency. Let's see how our congress responds. I'm pretty sure the Democrats will be for it. Lets see if there are any bipartisan Republicans.
1
Does anyone truly believe that at the end of the day that the Dreamers are really going anywhere? This is just another Trump non-announcement announcement, all sound and fury to squeeze a few more approval points from his base. A 71-year old race supremacist cares no more for the Dreamers than he does for the long-term economic outlook for the U.S., for in the long-run, he is either dead, or living in luxury in some overseas pocket utopia that he has created for himself.
6
People can still dream wherever they are. Sometimes we sell ourselves short, or more often overestimate our own importance. Our Dreamers will be like Assad's displaced Syrian refugees. An ignominious honor America should be proud of. But I hear tell Assad has won. Add that one to our honor roll as well.
1
I would, if DACA is abolished, call on all Americans of conscience to shelter the 'Dreamers' from deportation. There are 800k of them, and if 800k American couples each protected a single one of these folks, that would be 1.6M Americans eligible to fill the privatized prisons. Would the DOJ actually be willing to incarcerate so many in the name of an inhumane decree?
1
It is established law that non-citizens living in the USA have constitutional rights. Ending this program therefore would seem to be a violation of the right for the "pursuit of happiness", enshrined in the constitution, and hence trumps actions, once again, should not pass judicial or constitutional muster.
1
This article excellently emphasizes what I find to be one of the most nightmarish aspects of this reversal - the fact that these Dreamers gave their information to the government with the understanding that they were finally safe to do so. I am with the author in the (desperate) hope that, "the expansive cruelty of the executive branch may yet be tempered by the powers and wisdom of America’s legal system."
3
This needed to happen. The whole executive order thing was never law to start with.
Trump supporters hated it mostly because its a free ride. I see it everyday as the parent of a child held back because less qualified, but "minority" applicants get everything simply handed to them. No because they are special, but because they are entitled.
Just look at the whining now. That alone is enough to say, send them home now.
Trump supporters hated it mostly because its a free ride. I see it everyday as the parent of a child held back because less qualified, but "minority" applicants get everything simply handed to them. No because they are special, but because they are entitled.
Just look at the whining now. That alone is enough to say, send them home now.
3
It is the job of Congress to make immigration law, not the whim of the President (Obama or Trump). Do DACA advocates really want these people to contine living in a weird holding pattern, hoping if they are in the United States long enough, no one would force them to comply with the law?
3
If you're counting on Republicans in Congress or Republicans on the Supreme Court to intervene with this cruel, inhumane, and un-American in every way announcement, don't hold your breath. They have shown themselves to explicitly not be up to the job of challenging the dismantling of our democracy that is now well underway. They have made a mockery of their oaths of office. Paul Ryan refers to Trump as the "boss." Maybe all members of Congress need a refresher on the separation of powers. SCOTUS had no trouble wading into Florida's bungled 2000 election vote, but providing a check on a madman? "Not our job." John Roberts, we'd like to hear from you, sir.
1
Ending DACA is truly heartbreaking.
"They should have come LEGALLY."
"They don't deserve to be here!"
"They have no right!"
Maybe things aren't "legal" and "perfect" (probably like our driving records . . . or all that under age drinking we did in high school), but surely COMPASSION and empathy matter more than laws which no longer fit the world we live in. Surely these rules that are no longer relevant matter less than looking people in the eye and facing the reality, instead of clinging to the idea that you alone are worthy of something you haven't even earned!
Surely it matters more to defend our brothers and sisters than it is to frantically stash away something that was always meant to be shared.
This country . . . we could be better. We could be the example. What has made us great has also made us afraid. We're like the kid with all the toys who is afraid to share.
Ending DACA is just cruel. DACA gives these kids space to breath, but it's not a green card. Is that what people think? That is wrong. They don't get to vote, they don't get to visit their grandmas in Columbia after 20 years of no contact . . . NO. They just get to live a little easier knowing they are safe. Are we so cruel that we consider this excessive?
"They should have come LEGALLY."
"They don't deserve to be here!"
"They have no right!"
Maybe things aren't "legal" and "perfect" (probably like our driving records . . . or all that under age drinking we did in high school), but surely COMPASSION and empathy matter more than laws which no longer fit the world we live in. Surely these rules that are no longer relevant matter less than looking people in the eye and facing the reality, instead of clinging to the idea that you alone are worthy of something you haven't even earned!
Surely it matters more to defend our brothers and sisters than it is to frantically stash away something that was always meant to be shared.
This country . . . we could be better. We could be the example. What has made us great has also made us afraid. We're like the kid with all the toys who is afraid to share.
Ending DACA is just cruel. DACA gives these kids space to breath, but it's not a green card. Is that what people think? That is wrong. They don't get to vote, they don't get to visit their grandmas in Columbia after 20 years of no contact . . . NO. They just get to live a little easier knowing they are safe. Are we so cruel that we consider this excessive?
1
President Trump is a total genius !
As we know, the dems are now in a virtue signaling war with each other over who can come across as the most outraged, and congress has only six months to act. No doubt Mr. Trump will bind any DACA reform to border security (i.e. The Wall).
The virtue signal that goes along with DACA reform will outweigh the dem abhorrence to border security, so dems will accept The Wall. Establishment republicans might think they can push through a DACA only bill and later override a presidential veto. The only problem with that plan is that election season begins just as DACA expires, so any politician who so much as mentions the word "override" will go down as the politician who "voted for amnesty".
Brilliant !
As we know, the dems are now in a virtue signaling war with each other over who can come across as the most outraged, and congress has only six months to act. No doubt Mr. Trump will bind any DACA reform to border security (i.e. The Wall).
The virtue signal that goes along with DACA reform will outweigh the dem abhorrence to border security, so dems will accept The Wall. Establishment republicans might think they can push through a DACA only bill and later override a presidential veto. The only problem with that plan is that election season begins just as DACA expires, so any politician who so much as mentions the word "override" will go down as the politician who "voted for amnesty".
Brilliant !
3
There is nothing sensible about this decision by Trump and his minders. Morally and ethically it is repugnant, small minded and spiteful. Financially it will have a well documented negative effect on economic growth and the tax base and probably the dangerous neighborhoods that Trump trumpets about in "blue" urban areas. The worst of it is that there exists a minority of citizens in this country who support this kind of cynical manipulation of their fear of others. Is it really that challenging to look back and see that many of our relatives were dreamers at some point?
1
Detrimental Reliance resulting in real economic as well as emotional damages
1
What we need to remember is that whatever we agree to do for today's immigrants we are essentially agreeing to do for future immigrants. If we say that current immigrants who were brought here before the age of 16 won't be deported, does anyone believe there won't be immense pressure to treat future immigrants the same? Would we be compassionate today and heartless tomorrow?
That is the conundrum of immigration policy. Amnesty for existing immigrants will lead more to come here illegally, expecting the same treatment. As always, the question is what do we want our immigration policy to be? Whatever we decide for current immigrants here illegally will become the de facto policy for future illegal immigrants.
That is the conundrum of immigration policy. Amnesty for existing immigrants will lead more to come here illegally, expecting the same treatment. As always, the question is what do we want our immigration policy to be? Whatever we decide for current immigrants here illegally will become the de facto policy for future illegal immigrants.
9
I'm no fan of Trump, but DACA was promulgated by Obama out of thin air. Most constitutional experts recognize that it would not stand up to judicial scrutiny. I hope Congress comes up with a solution, but this is what comes of executive overreach.
18
If Reagan had insisted upon criminal penalties for owners hiring future illegals in the 1986 "amnesty" legislation, then we wouldn't be repeating this debacle over and over. But that's what happens from executive under-reach.
Hmm .. Who owns the farms, ranches, hotels, and meat-packing plants? Who chants "Wall" which is effectively a diversionary non-solution because a wall doesn't put paycheck writers in jail?
Is not the solution clear? No money, no migration.
Hmm .. Who owns the farms, ranches, hotels, and meat-packing plants? Who chants "Wall" which is effectively a diversionary non-solution because a wall doesn't put paycheck writers in jail?
Is not the solution clear? No money, no migration.
5
Ideally, yes, it should have been created by congressional legislation. But Republicans, out of nothing but sheer spite, were intent on blocking anything he tried to do. So President Obama, seeing a problem that needed addressing,and understanding he still had an obligation to try to govern whether Republicans were stonewalling him or not, did the only thing he could do short of doing nothing at all.
1
Oy vey, and even after all that's been said about good intentions gone awry. You'd think we'd all have learned by now who the real boss is. Sorry humanity, the law has spoken. Not exactly the benevolent dictator we'd hoped for.
Too many presidents have proposed national service programs or lauded volunteer programs based on anecdotal data. We have hard statistics on almost a million Dreamers. Why not offer them a program of service as a path to legal residency and citizenship.
9
There is one, join the military.
1
Maybe they should have followed the proper path to citizenship instead of living and dying by executive decree.
18
Maybe a child does not know how to follow the path to citizenship.
4
maybe children didn't have a choice on how they arrived.
Maybe they should be rewarded with a path to citizenship.
Maybe they should be rewarded with a path to citizenship.
1
Did President Obama do it.....then, by god, undo it! Those who think the 'Dreamers' should be sent home...this is their home...this action wreaks of white privilege and insecurity...sums up Trump.
15
Let Congress work this out legally. DACA is not a legal program. Also, why should these people jump to the front of the line for life in America over those who applied legally?
5
They are illegal and executive orders only delay the inevitable. Trump needed to throw this back at congress.
2
The parents of "Dreamers " must be deported.
3
The ending of the DACA Program has nothing to do with immigration: it merely another example of Trump pandering to his xenophobic "evangelical" base.
17
They deport with their illegal alien parents. they've had the benefit of free public education, courtesy of the American taxpayers and the speak two languages......they will be an asset to whatever country to move to
20
But their U.S. education is not exactly "free" -- the majority of their parents WORK and pay Soc. Security, etc. along with paying rent, mortgages, car payments, clothing & grocery purchases. If all 800,000 are departed (you're paying their tickets BTW) and their parents, watch your all your produce, poultry & meats, construction costs, hotel stays, etc. rise sky high, while many communities could become ghost towns. The negative economic impact alone would hurt the U.S. for decades to come.
Truly like cutting off YOUR nose to spite YOUR own face . . .
Truly like cutting off YOUR nose to spite YOUR own face . . .
3
So you're saying that we should keep the parents here because they'll work for a lot less than Americans will? I'll bet you can't figure out why the Dems keep losing elections either.
4
Obama's fault. Not content with DACA he went with DAPA, allowing the parents to break our laws and get amnesty. We have guarantee that DACA recipients will be content with anything short of amnesty for their parents, full access to our welfare state and a country where those who don't speak Spanish are at a disadvantage.
Enough.
Enough.
23
In a country of 300 million, how do 16 million illegal immigrants -- many of whom speak English, by the way -- put the rest of us at a disadvantage? What high-paying job were you denied because it required Spanish?
"Access to our welfare state" is laughable. It's also double-talk unless you are willing to grant citizenship to those who pay taxes.
DACA is all about letting children brought here illegally get themselves established and integrated into society. That's how they grow up to be American taxpayers. Isn't that what you want?
"Access to our welfare state" is laughable. It's also double-talk unless you are willing to grant citizenship to those who pay taxes.
DACA is all about letting children brought here illegally get themselves established and integrated into society. That's how they grow up to be American taxpayers. Isn't that what you want?
2
Let's be honest. This whole rescind DACA Dog and Pony show is sponsored by the "Obama Wrote It, We Must Remove It" crowd. They don't give a flying fig about these kids. Not their contributions to society, not what happens to them if/when 6 months from now there's no plan in place, not what happens if they are deported back to a country in which they don't know the customs and don't speak the language because they've been brought up as Americans. The end game is what it always been- erase anything President Obama accomplished.
21
So it's pretty much incumbent upon congress to do the job we elected them to do and get some sort of legislation passed, no? We do have those midterms to hold over their useless heads.
4
"Obama Wrote It, We Must Remove It" ???
Pretty good policy if you ask me.
Pretty good policy if you ask me.
1
Trump can't fix the dreamer act. Trump can't fix the economy. Trump can't fix health care. Trump can't fix foreign policy. Heck, Trump couldn't fix a basketball game if it involved the Globetrotters and Generals, even if the Globetrotters were the ones who were supposed to win and you gave him $1 million to bribe the Generals to lose.
But give Trump some credit here. This dreamer order was nothing more than limbo installed by Obama because he couldn't fix immigration, either. At least Trump knows his limitations. By punting to Congress, the president has, if nothing else, set a deadline for something to get accomplished. And that is, actually, progress.
Trump is, really, doing the right thing here, regardless of how you feel about the issue. No one should live in limbo, and that's exactly where children of illegal immigrants are living now. There are 800,000 dreamers who took Obama on his word and came forward. That's just too many to deport. There is no way in heck that Congress would do it. And so Trump has, really, done us all a favor. It's put-up-or-shut-up time. Paul Ryan and McConnell need to get cracking and come up with something that works. Trump will go along with whatever they do, and there is a reasonable, fair solution to this.
Of course, we wouldn't be here if Obama--who deported more people than any other president--had been a more effective commander in chief. Think about it.
But give Trump some credit here. This dreamer order was nothing more than limbo installed by Obama because he couldn't fix immigration, either. At least Trump knows his limitations. By punting to Congress, the president has, if nothing else, set a deadline for something to get accomplished. And that is, actually, progress.
Trump is, really, doing the right thing here, regardless of how you feel about the issue. No one should live in limbo, and that's exactly where children of illegal immigrants are living now. There are 800,000 dreamers who took Obama on his word and came forward. That's just too many to deport. There is no way in heck that Congress would do it. And so Trump has, really, done us all a favor. It's put-up-or-shut-up time. Paul Ryan and McConnell need to get cracking and come up with something that works. Trump will go along with whatever they do, and there is a reasonable, fair solution to this.
Of course, we wouldn't be here if Obama--who deported more people than any other president--had been a more effective commander in chief. Think about it.
10
Unless you are a member of an indigenous native tribe YOU ARE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN! My ancestors came here on the Mayflower, and immediately set to destroying the people who had lived here thousands of years, indiscriminately slaughtering them, stealing their land, disenfranchising and even enslaving them--the usual white European arrogance and evil application of their sense of entitlement.
And therein lies the answer to immigration, or more accurately, deportation. If people are going to be thrown out of the country for being here "illegally", let's start with the most egregious perpetrators--white people, especially those descended from the earliest colonists. They didn't just come here and take jobs. They murdered millions, enslaved millions more, and have so fouled the land and sky that it's started to fight back--against all of us. And they have no intention of ever changing their ways.
So I say it's the invaders who need to go, not the people who belonged here for millennia before they showed up. That would be fair, that would be humane, and maybe just might give pause to the anti-American riffraff that wishes to penalize every non-white person in this country simply for being what they are.
Let's deport a few thousand rednecks back to their "home" countries--Britain, Germany, France, Portugal, Spain--where they won't be able to speak the language and probably never will learn. It's only fair to start with the offenders who have been here the longest.
And therein lies the answer to immigration, or more accurately, deportation. If people are going to be thrown out of the country for being here "illegally", let's start with the most egregious perpetrators--white people, especially those descended from the earliest colonists. They didn't just come here and take jobs. They murdered millions, enslaved millions more, and have so fouled the land and sky that it's started to fight back--against all of us. And they have no intention of ever changing their ways.
So I say it's the invaders who need to go, not the people who belonged here for millennia before they showed up. That would be fair, that would be humane, and maybe just might give pause to the anti-American riffraff that wishes to penalize every non-white person in this country simply for being what they are.
Let's deport a few thousand rednecks back to their "home" countries--Britain, Germany, France, Portugal, Spain--where they won't be able to speak the language and probably never will learn. It's only fair to start with the offenders who have been here the longest.
15
There is no land on the Earth that hasn't been taken by force at one time or another.
It's in our DNA
It's in our DNA
3
Blame the Russians, Auntie Hose, they sold Alaska to the United States fair and square.
2
No, the Europeans were just defending the indigenous animals who were being hunted to extinction by the Asian interlopers. There are no native Americans. We are all natives of the African Homeland. Let us all return to our native Africa and leave the indigenous creatures of America, Asia, Australia and Europe alone!
2
Trump as usual shoots from the hip and shoots off his mouth. Where is the back up plan?
Um, go back to your respective countries and try to come legally. Be very thankful that you have an education better than your fellow countrymen and fix your respective countries.
That sounds like a very good plan.
That sounds like a very good plan.
24
Dreamers will pack up their dreams, together with their initiative, creativity and drive, and emigrate to Canada, who will likely accept them with open arms.
We can find comfort that we still have (or are stuck with) the low-information "base", Faux News, and the newly empowered neo-Nazi sympathizers, who all want to make america great again.
We can find comfort that we still have (or are stuck with) the low-information "base", Faux News, and the newly empowered neo-Nazi sympathizers, who all want to make america great again.
13
I'm sure Canada would welcome a cohort of well educated, highly motivated young people to our country.....bring them on!
2
Don't count on it...
Canadians are getting rather tired of the illegal immigrants pouring over the US border.
Canadians are getting rather tired of the illegal immigrants pouring over the US border.
2
Nothing says "America's great" like deporting teenagers to countries they barely remember.
12
Bravo!
The parents of these children should be fast tracked to be deported.Assets seized to pay for the legal mess they created by breaking the law.
21
And all the restaurants, farmers, construction companies, commercial cleaning services, landscaping, hotels, etc. who actually employ them?
At the very least those parents are the reason you can still afford to eat reasonably in the U.S.!
At the very least those parents are the reason you can still afford to eat reasonably in the U.S.!
1
Jerry-- how about these parents reveal who employed them, providing pay stubs if possible? Then fine the snot out of these companies who employed illegal aliens-- and I am talking, fine them till it hurts. And taking your suggestion-- "seizing assets for the legal mess they created" by hiring people they knew were not here legally. EXCEPTIONS-- individuals who hired casual labor to mow lawns etc, and agriculture, which, without this core of illegal employees would not be able to provide us with food. Do you agree?
4
Trump's "solution" to the Dreamer problem is to turn it over to Congress, which cannot resolve anything, and to thereby to launch a Dreamer Diaspora.
Clever Trump will blame it all on Sessions and on Congress, and absolutely everyone will believe him ... provided he leaves office before March.
Clever Trump will blame it all on Sessions and on Congress, and absolutely everyone will believe him ... provided he leaves office before March.
3
I agree with the writer that it would be entrapment for the government to use the DACA data to locate these individuals for deportment. But if they are not American citizens, are they protected from entrapment under the law? I thought that civil liberties only technically applied to citizens (I mean legally, not ethically). Does anybody know? My heart is breaking for the dreamers, but I don't think they can rely on this legal argument.
3
The Constitution, and the 4th and 5th Amendment rights guaranteed under it, apply to *EVERY* person standing on US soil, regardless of citizenship or immigration status.
Guantamo is still open because detainees would have the right to counsel, speedy trials, etc if they were on American soil.
Guantamo is still open because detainees would have the right to counsel, speedy trials, etc if they were on American soil.
3
Problem here is that immigration law is civil not criminal. Unclear if entrapment implies here.
Thank you. I'm glad to know that is true and is as it should be. I still wouldn't rely on that, though. Arpaio was pardoned for contempt of court over civil rights abuses.
I have little faith the current Congress will do anything. The GOP has proven time and time again it's all about party, not country.
4
Then elect a new Congress.
The current Congress was elected because The People got tired of the Democrats making a muck of our society over the past eight years.
If you can't win elections to change Congress, you only have yourselves to blame.
The current Congress was elected because The People got tired of the Democrats making a muck of our society over the past eight years.
If you can't win elections to change Congress, you only have yourselves to blame.
3
Deporting 100's of thousands of Dreamers will give Republicans such joy. I wouldn't be surprised to see celebration parties spontaneously popping-up in many red areas of the country.
6
What I wish the Dreamers would do is to implore everyone they know who has the right to vote to never not vote, and never vote Republican.
Our democracy depends on it.
Our democracy depends on it.
10
then why have immigration law at all? Should America get rid of Social Security,Medicare,and Food Stamps to accommodate the half of the Earth's population that wants to come?
How does America's carbon footprint play in this? Millions more people in the population make the Paris Agreement undoable.Just as providing healthcare,education,and housing becomes too expensive to pay for.
How does America's carbon footprint play in this? Millions more people in the population make the Paris Agreement undoable.Just as providing healthcare,education,and housing becomes too expensive to pay for.
3
That's the compassion, empathy, sympathy and he ability to understand and share the feelings of others that evangelist, Trump supporters and Trump himself show.
They will be rewarded in the Kingdom of their God; the God of Greed, Lust and evil actions.
They will be rewarded in the Kingdom of their God; the God of Greed, Lust and evil actions.
4
I am just beyond disgust at this point with this president, this administration, and this Republican-controlled Congress. There have been so many hurtful actions Trump has taken, from the Muslim travel ban to the ban on transgender people serving in the military and now this - needlessly and arbitrarily ending DACA. These young people were children when their parents brought them to this country! The U.S. IS their home! This action unfairly punishes them, and at its core, is yet another harmful and discriminatory act from a president who cares nothing about anything or anyone beyond his own ego - and his profit margin. To take this action that does nothing but target and harm innocent people is immoral, and quite frankly, un-American. This Congress needs to wake up, step up, and unite to condemn this action.
9
That's ok...The People were eminently disgusted with Barack Obama, the prospects of a Hillary Clinton presidency, and Democratic houses of Congress.
So tie-up your shoes, put on your coat and hat, and start convincing The People that yours is the better way.
So tie-up your shoes, put on your coat and hat, and start convincing The People that yours is the better way.
3
Ending the humanitarian protections of the DACA program reminds me of the dismal history of how the "Great White Father" U.S. government broke scores of treaties with Native American Indian tribes.
I don't know why people in any other country in the world ever believe that our heartless Trump era federal government is worthy of trust.
I don't know why people in any other country in the world ever believe that our heartless Trump era federal government is worthy of trust.
8
"By their fruits ye shall know them."
Trump and the GOP are now best known as the party that denies homes to children, refuge to refugees and healthcare to the sick. Evangelicals who support Trump have to ask themselves whether rescinding DACA is consistent with their faith.
Christian leaders, conscious of Trump's many failings, but enamored of the power he promises them, argue that God sometimes uses flawed leaders to do his bidding. But wouldn't you know whether Trump is a flawed man doing God's bidding, or just a cruel bully by his decisions? If you are a believer, don't you have a moral obligation to ask that question?
Trump and the GOP are now best known as the party that denies homes to children, refuge to refugees and healthcare to the sick. Evangelicals who support Trump have to ask themselves whether rescinding DACA is consistent with their faith.
Christian leaders, conscious of Trump's many failings, but enamored of the power he promises them, argue that God sometimes uses flawed leaders to do his bidding. But wouldn't you know whether Trump is a flawed man doing God's bidding, or just a cruel bully by his decisions? If you are a believer, don't you have a moral obligation to ask that question?
3
There is only one ethical response to the Dreamer situation, and every rational being knows what that is. No pussyfootin' -- one way or another Dreamers must be permitted to stay. There is no other moral option (although some of the Usual Suspects will try to fake it).
2
No truly any other economic option either -- present and future.
DACA was temporary, and there has to be a permanent fix. Issue is about illegal immigration, not what grades they're getting in school. Hopefully Congress will come up with a solution that let's them stay, but it has to be law, not a presidential edict.
11
The left, Matt, far prefers to rule by edict because, that way, they don't have the messy process of legislation to go through...
And they know they are right, so why would you and I have any reason to oppose them?
And they know they are right, so why would you and I have any reason to oppose them?
3
I don't think he realizes the economic ramifications of this decision. Kris Kobach is running around, saying that the DACA recipients are the reason that wages in this country are depressed. He told NPR on Saturday that it's all their fault. Really? So if we remove 800,000 people, the majority of whom are educated, tax-paying, responsible adults, out of this economy, Kobach thinks that all of our economic woes will be instantly fixed? Does he have magic fairy dust to sprinkle on the huge holes that will leave in our society? And Kobach is one of Trump's advisors on immigration.
How highly ironic is it that Trump pardons the criminal Joe Arpaio, who essentially tortured people who were in his custody, some of whom were not even illegals, and stalked people based on the color of their skin, and talks about following "the rule of law?" Would Joe Arpaio have known if an illegal Irish immigrant were driving through his district? No, because he was just looking for brown-skinned people to arrest. So my ancestors, who most likely did not come to this country legally, would have been fine with Arpaio (and presumably Trump and Sessions) because they didn't look like some of those who ended up in Arpaio's tent city.
What has become of the country I love?
How highly ironic is it that Trump pardons the criminal Joe Arpaio, who essentially tortured people who were in his custody, some of whom were not even illegals, and stalked people based on the color of their skin, and talks about following "the rule of law?" Would Joe Arpaio have known if an illegal Irish immigrant were driving through his district? No, because he was just looking for brown-skinned people to arrest. So my ancestors, who most likely did not come to this country legally, would have been fine with Arpaio (and presumably Trump and Sessions) because they didn't look like some of those who ended up in Arpaio's tent city.
What has become of the country I love?
43
I know, but think of how many people he's convincing that he knows something, because he has a bully pulpit.
Your country stopped lying to itself and to others about what it really is.
I still remember when all those people were crying "why do they hate us" after 9/11. Now you know.
I still remember when all those people were crying "why do they hate us" after 9/11. Now you know.
Whether it is closing the borders to potential immigrants who don’t fit a particular picture and want to love us or throwing out children of undocumented parents who love us already, the policies of this administration are contrary to what America is about. We are not building hearts full of love, dedication, and sacrifice with that practice, we are corrupting their minds so we can be hated.
The problem is that exhausting a checking account of good will is the best way to go bankrupt as a nation in a world where moral bankruptcies abound. I hope we don’t try to collect later when our resources are scarce and we need some support and find that none is available.
The problem is that exhausting a checking account of good will is the best way to go bankrupt as a nation in a world where moral bankruptcies abound. I hope we don’t try to collect later when our resources are scarce and we need some support and find that none is available.
1
What I find most interesting regarding the ending of DACA is how Republican congressmen are suddenly coming out of the woodwork to strongly support it - Lindsey Graham, Orin Hatch, Paul Ryan etc.
Where were these same congressmen when DACA was Obama's plan? Either they openly criticized it or were mum.
This is another testament to how much Obama was needlessly obstructed by Republicans. Even when they are in favor of an Obama idea they won't support it until it is no longer owned by Obama.
Where were these same congressmen when DACA was Obama's plan? Either they openly criticized it or were mum.
This is another testament to how much Obama was needlessly obstructed by Republicans. Even when they are in favor of an Obama idea they won't support it until it is no longer owned by Obama.
9
Get their fellow citizens to pressure congress to do its job and pass a bill to address this issue. This president can't and won't ignore the constitution unlike some other president. My greatest fear is that president Trump would get frustrated with congress and follow the Obama ignore the constitution example. Who knows what else he might do if he allowed himself to ignore his limits.
4
"This president can't and won't ignore the constitution*(sic)".
Too late. He already has.
Too late. He already has.
4
The president says "We love the dreamers" but to please his base, he has to get rid of them. Congress to the rescue? Don't bet on it. Making America great again by kicking out these young people will be a tough sell.
There is a way forward that meets our requirements for law and order. We deport the dreamers to Cuba, then charter some flights to Miami, where they'll be welcomed with open arms.
There is a way forward that meets our requirements for law and order. We deport the dreamers to Cuba, then charter some flights to Miami, where they'll be welcomed with open arms.
2
From what I am reading, enforcement will be delayed for six months -- perhaps this time Democrats will finally turn out and vote in the upcoming election. If DACA gives America a Democrat House and Senate, I will love it --- I do not see that happening.
2
The mid-term elections are not until November 6, 2018. DACA will end eight months before that, on March 5, 2018. Democrats, independents and Republicans of good conscious (there are a few) must act now.
4
What are you talking about?? Democrats came out and voted during the last election ... Where else do you think those 3+ MILLION votes came from?
1
what election is happening within 6 months taht will change the make up of congress?
1
It's obvious what should be done for the Dreamers: Grant them citizenship. To borrow from what Trump et al. want in immigrants, DACA recipients speak English, they work or go to school or both. Those who work pay taxes. They don't have criminal records. Model citizens! Give them that piece of paper and make it official.
9
If we did -- and over my dead body -- the dreamers would definitely sponsor their parents, illegal siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles and finally their entire Mexican villages -- with 90% of those folks being unskilled, illiterate (even in Spanish), non-English speaking and headed for a life on welfare.
DACA recipients mostly speak Spanish; that's why they required remedial bilingual education.
DACA recipients mostly speak Spanish; that's why they required remedial bilingual education.
15
Sorry, not true, its almost the opposite -- most DACA recipients speak English fluently (if you're here at 3 yrs old & are now 20, you never had 'remedial English') and often are less fluent in Spanish.
2
America is turning into a truly ugly place.
21
The comments applauding this assault on Dreamers have something in common. They are all mean and disrespectful.
I agree with William O Beeman on this thread. I regard Dreamers as fellow Americans, as citizens in fact deserving of being citizens de jure.
I agree with William O Beeman on this thread. I regard Dreamers as fellow Americans, as citizens in fact deserving of being citizens de jure.
15
Trump can't get his wall built, but he can go after the Dreamers and because this group is registered with the government it will be easy to find them. We now have young people who have known nothing else, believing the US will expel them elsewhere or jail them . Once again Trump uses power to bully a weaker group and this week he will claim he's "tough on borders and tough on immigration." Yep you really got yourself some bad hombres here, Mr. President....
9
How about this? Since executive orders are all the rage, how about Trump passes an executive order that identifies 800,000 citizen criminals. Each of these citizen criminals is paired with a "Dreamer." The criminal is then deported and the Dreamer stays. It's probably as legal as anything else Trump has done, and it would be a damned sight more popular.
1
Or, he could pardon them.
1
Citizens can't be deported.
But non-citizens, such as "Dreamers" can be.
And illegal immigrants _should_be.
But non-citizens, such as "Dreamers" can be.
And illegal immigrants _should_be.
11
Sorry, Charlie -- you cannot deport an American citizen, even if he is a convicted mass murderer.
Citizenship counts for something -- well, not among lefty liberals -- but everyone else.
Citizenship counts for something -- well, not among lefty liberals -- but everyone else.
11
How do they have a Social Security number, if they are here illegally, and not US Citizens?
15
They were given Social Security numbers as part of DACA, duh! Just like any other non-citizens who has permission to work here.
2
They got work permits and SSN#s along with the deferrals, courtesy of Obama.
2
And if working (many DACA high schoolers, college students & 20 somethings do) are paying the hefty federal and state taxes. And may never ever get to claim them!
These kids cost the taxpayers billions for their education. They would be assets in their native countries. They might stand up to the oligarchs that sucking their countries dry. The females, since they are now educated, might lead efforts for population control in their native countries. We already are seeing pictures of laborers in Houston and none of them are black. Don't we need to raise wages in the US so that people born of US parents through no fault of their own can build an economic future? If there is no value to being a US citizen then why do we have a border, why do we spend trillions of defense. One thought would be to send them back with a stipend for several years in order to get them started. It should be a generous one equivalent to the cost of raising four or five children for ten or twenty years in the US since that is what will be saved. They could be the nucleus of a new world order in the third world.
15
Try focusing on the farm, ranch, hotel, and meat-packing plant owners, as, who will provide the paychecks and will cause this debacle again.
If your blessed Reagan had insisted upon criminal penalties / enforcement for owners that hire illegals in the 1986 "amnesty" legislation, then we wouldn't be here now.
So, send your bill for billions to your Republican friends who had some of those Dreamers in their fields; and thanks to the Big Wall Diversionary Lie, they will continue to be able to exploit illegal labor without repercussion. Tell them to pay up, as.
If your blessed Reagan had insisted upon criminal penalties / enforcement for owners that hire illegals in the 1986 "amnesty" legislation, then we wouldn't be here now.
So, send your bill for billions to your Republican friends who had some of those Dreamers in their fields; and thanks to the Big Wall Diversionary Lie, they will continue to be able to exploit illegal labor without repercussion. Tell them to pay up, as.
2
WOW !!!!
Remember the "bad hombres" Trump was going to take on? What does a bully do when he can't take on the bad hombres? That's right, a bully picks on the weakest. Everyone should feel better.
10
We need these Dreamers as much as they need us. I can think of no crueler betrayal than pulling the rug out from under brave people who came out from the shadows and trusted.
Few citizens must undergo the scrutiny that the Dreamers must. Cast your stones haters,you are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
Few citizens must undergo the scrutiny that the Dreamers must. Cast your stones haters,you are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
9
The children of the dreame will grow up and contribute to Social Security which at that time will face a shortage of people paying in.
3
If legalized, all those Dreamers will themselves someday retire and draw benefits.
Social Security is a giant intergenerational Ponzi pyramid scheme.
Immigration is not a solution to that.
Immigration will only make it worse.
Especially de facto uncontrolled and unlimited immigration,
such as endless amnesties for illegal aliens.
Social Security is a giant intergenerational Ponzi pyramid scheme.
Immigration is not a solution to that.
Immigration will only make it worse.
Especially de facto uncontrolled and unlimited immigration,
such as endless amnesties for illegal aliens.
15
We do not have a shortage, Mr. Silverman.
The millennial generation is LARGER than the boomer generation. Anyways, us boomers will all be gone by about 2050, and then you will have the birth dearth -- more payers of SS than takers. It all balances out in the end.
The millennial generation is LARGER than the boomer generation. Anyways, us boomers will all be gone by about 2050, and then you will have the birth dearth -- more payers of SS than takers. It all balances out in the end.
6
Using descriptors such as "heartless" and ". . . set a dangerous precedent" have no meaning to Trump or his cabinet. You might as well be talking to trees in the woods. "Fair" has been dealt a terrible blow.
2
Fair? Perhaps you could define that term for me?
8
Just a ploy to get a strings attached bill that democrats will have to sign. The strings? I hope they're not for a wall.
3
Trump, claimed expertise in making deals has again shown his true colors: a double crosser. This is no different than his stiffing the workers on one of his building projects: promise one thing, deliver another. When are is base going to get it? The guy is a liar, a liar, a liar. He will no more bring back jobs than hand out unicorns. To the Trump supporters: in voting for him you share in the responsibility for the consequences. Where you're going you won't need a jacket.
4
As I sit at my desk researching for a book, I find many underage children brought over and given status from "their father's papers" at Ellis Island. They had no idea. This president lacks all empathy and he is 100% ignorant about American history. If left to his demonic devise, he will round up a million people to please his base. Who will stand up to him? I will if needed.
4
Zighi,
Those parents and children that you are writing about, did they break any laws entering the country? No. Was their immigration legal and valuable to the US? Yes.
Empathy is not the point. The LAW is the point. There are MILLIONS of educated people waiting for years (the LEGAL way) to gain access to the US through LEGAL visas.
Why should they have to wait? Why punish those that follow the rules and reward the criminals and those that benefited from illegal acts?
It's not about your 'feelings', its about the law.
Those parents and children that you are writing about, did they break any laws entering the country? No. Was their immigration legal and valuable to the US? Yes.
Empathy is not the point. The LAW is the point. There are MILLIONS of educated people waiting for years (the LEGAL way) to gain access to the US through LEGAL visas.
Why should they have to wait? Why punish those that follow the rules and reward the criminals and those that benefited from illegal acts?
It's not about your 'feelings', its about the law.
19
ZIghi, that was when the US was a huge vast frontier that desperately needed warm bodies.
This is not 1901. We have no more frontier and NO MORE ROOM -- our cities are crowded, housing is costly, we are $22 TRILLION in debt.
The life raft is about to capsize! we cannot take on any more dead weight!
Also: my 4 grandparents came to the US between 1910 and 1920. They came LEGALLY -- I have their immigration and naturalization papers with which to prove this.
After about 1920, there is NO EXCUSE for coming to the US without proper paperwork -- NONE.
This is not 1901. We have no more frontier and NO MORE ROOM -- our cities are crowded, housing is costly, we are $22 TRILLION in debt.
The life raft is about to capsize! we cannot take on any more dead weight!
Also: my 4 grandparents came to the US between 1910 and 1920. They came LEGALLY -- I have their immigration and naturalization papers with which to prove this.
After about 1920, there is NO EXCUSE for coming to the US without proper paperwork -- NONE.
14
You are not talking about the law, you are talking about resentment. Those people under DACA have been waiting too, they too are in a program. DACA takes nothing away from other immigrant groups waiting for citizenship. Its not a zero sum game.
Whether or not they have a "criminal record",
whether or not they "pay taxes" (almost always very meager, in any case),
they are line jumpers.
All too often, we hear the inane plaintive
from Immigration "advocates"
that the "system is broken",
and that it is broken because legal immigration "takes years".
Get real.
It takes years not because of bureaucracy,
not because the "system is broken".
It takes years because there is a line -- a long line.
And the line is long because there are limits
-- annual limits, annual numerical limits.
And there ought to be limits -- numerical limits -- annual numerical limits.
Without annual numerical limits, there are no limits at all.
Without numerical limits, half the world's seven billion people would come here.
Dreamers and their parents and other illegal aliens have jumped the line.
They have crashed the gates.
Back to the end of the line.
The line forms outside the USA.
Whether or not they have a "criminal record",
whether or not they "pay taxes" (almost always very meager, in any case),
they are line jumpers.
So, get real.
Immigration cannot be unlimited.
That means limits -- numerical limits.
Numerical limits that ought to be enforced.
Waiting in line for your turn.
Even it it takes years.
That's the way the world works.
whether or not they "pay taxes" (almost always very meager, in any case),
they are line jumpers.
All too often, we hear the inane plaintive
from Immigration "advocates"
that the "system is broken",
and that it is broken because legal immigration "takes years".
Get real.
It takes years not because of bureaucracy,
not because the "system is broken".
It takes years because there is a line -- a long line.
And the line is long because there are limits
-- annual limits, annual numerical limits.
And there ought to be limits -- numerical limits -- annual numerical limits.
Without annual numerical limits, there are no limits at all.
Without numerical limits, half the world's seven billion people would come here.
Dreamers and their parents and other illegal aliens have jumped the line.
They have crashed the gates.
Back to the end of the line.
The line forms outside the USA.
Whether or not they have a "criminal record",
whether or not they "pay taxes" (almost always very meager, in any case),
they are line jumpers.
So, get real.
Immigration cannot be unlimited.
That means limits -- numerical limits.
Numerical limits that ought to be enforced.
Waiting in line for your turn.
Even it it takes years.
That's the way the world works.
31
What line are they jumping? They do not become citizens and they don't get green cards - they simply get authorization to work/pay taxes. Are you aware of what DACA actually entails?
2
Pescisely.
There are no lines for line-jumpers.
That's the beauty of line-jumping.
Even more beautiful when some charged with enforcing the lines (such as Obama) makes up a a line bypass.
As President, Obama made up a line bypass for Dreamers
under the guise of "prosecutorial discretion", or "enforcement priorities".
Whether or not Obama's line bypass was legal on his part,
it was a bad move for America.
So, now the new President has put an end to the Obama's line bypass.
So now the Dreamers have no legal line bypass.
Tant pis for them.
They can leave and wait (outside the USA) in the legal lines.
And we need not listen to their complaints about waiting in long lines.
Because that's the point of a line --to wait in it -- however long.
There are no lines for line-jumpers.
That's the beauty of line-jumping.
Even more beautiful when some charged with enforcing the lines (such as Obama) makes up a a line bypass.
As President, Obama made up a line bypass for Dreamers
under the guise of "prosecutorial discretion", or "enforcement priorities".
Whether or not Obama's line bypass was legal on his part,
it was a bad move for America.
So, now the new President has put an end to the Obama's line bypass.
So now the Dreamers have no legal line bypass.
Tant pis for them.
They can leave and wait (outside the USA) in the legal lines.
And we need not listen to their complaints about waiting in long lines.
Because that's the point of a line --to wait in it -- however long.
What line, you ask.
I'll have to spell it out for you --
The line for entering the USA legally.
The Dreamers are here.
So, obviously they have entered.
They did not come here in the legal line.
So, obviously they jumped the line.
The fact that your mother or father jumps the line with you,
or even carries you when she or he jump the line,
or "send" you, or "send for" you, to jump the line,
does not mean that you get to stay here.
Whatever DACA "entails",
it was not the law.
It was Obama's "policy", as President.
But now, he is not the President, is he?
And now it is not even the policy.
I'll have to spell it out for you --
The line for entering the USA legally.
The Dreamers are here.
So, obviously they have entered.
They did not come here in the legal line.
So, obviously they jumped the line.
The fact that your mother or father jumps the line with you,
or even carries you when she or he jump the line,
or "send" you, or "send for" you, to jump the line,
does not mean that you get to stay here.
Whatever DACA "entails",
it was not the law.
It was Obama's "policy", as President.
But now, he is not the President, is he?
And now it is not even the policy.
8
Whatever happens to the dreamers ? If they get arrested , deported in handcuffs hopefully the news media is around to photograph and print the stories and shout it out for all the world to see and deplore. Hate radio and its advocates have done their job , but remember to every action there is a reaction and those who rejoice in this decision need to remember .
2
Where are those compassionate religious leaders? They are probably in the Temples counting their riches as opposed to supporting fellow human beings? Where are those immigrants like Ted Cruz, Melania Trump: worrying only about their future political power or the access to high fashion? Time for reinstating the principles of our country!
2
These “Dreamers” have been placed into a tricky situation at no fault of their own. I do not blame children for the actions of the parents, and I feel it is unnecessary and far too costly for the program to end and the children protected by the program to be deported. While it is not the issue being discussed, those who enter the country illegally should face consequences, as the US should not pursue an open border policy given the current security threats. Also, allowing illegal immigrants to continue to enter the country is unfair to those who took the time to become citizens through the proper channels. To get back to the topic at hand, these children are in the country illegally, this cannot be questioned. The current government program is what protects them from this being handed off to ICE or CBP. The confidentiality of their information from federal law enforcement agencies is very questionable. While there is a clause in the forms filled out by applicants stating their information will not be given to law enforcement, a loophole to this agreement would likely be found by the government. The factor that could sway the government to avoid a mass deportation of these children would be the cost of the whole operation. Imagine the time and money needed for the government to locate, detain and relocate the hundreds of thousands of people enrolled in DACA. The system most certainly needs to be reformed in some manner, but dissolving DACA all together is unnecessary action.
3
Little time and almost no money.
E-VERIFY will get every illegal alien out of this country. Mandatory E-verify at every school....every hospital....every ER.....every employer....and with TEETH. Mandatory jail time for employers who hire illegals!
No jobs, no illegal immigration. In six months, 90% of them will be GONE. On their own. No need for a wall eve (the wall is only symbolic).
BTW: these are not "children" in the sense of being 5 years old. Most dreamers are about 25 years old.
E-VERIFY will get every illegal alien out of this country. Mandatory E-verify at every school....every hospital....every ER.....every employer....and with TEETH. Mandatory jail time for employers who hire illegals!
No jobs, no illegal immigration. In six months, 90% of them will be GONE. On their own. No need for a wall eve (the wall is only symbolic).
BTW: these are not "children" in the sense of being 5 years old. Most dreamers are about 25 years old.
7
You're not going to get eVerify at the schools, Pyler v Doe and all that. Probably not at the hospitals either, EMTALA, emergency Medicaid, and all of that.
Young, educated, motivated, English/Spanish speeaking... Canada should take them in.
6
Full agreement. I think every one of the Dreamers, and their entire families including their US-born citizen children, should use this six month interval to seek asylum in Canada, where they will be welcomed with open arms and will go on to contribute greatly to that country's future instead of benefiting the only home they have ever known, which is kicking them in the teeth.
2
Canada wants you to speak English or French.
No points for Spanish in Canada.
Are you going to tell Canada that Canada needs what you say it needs?
No points for Spanish in Canada.
Are you going to tell Canada that Canada needs what you say it needs?
5
Suppose DACA is continued.
Supposedly, the main rationale being that these hapless "children"
were "brought here through no fault of their own".
And their parents? -- the very ones who were at fault?
What happens to them?
Ah, there it is -- the hidden agenda.
Wholesale amnesty.
How so?
Because, without wholesale amnesty,
including the parents,
then, immediately the specter arises,
and a new mantra,
or rather, an old mantra with a new life--
"breaking apart families".
Can't have that, can we?
So, surely as night follows day,
DACA Dreamers morph into Anchor Babies 2.0.
Chain migration raised to a whole new level.
Supposedly, the main rationale being that these hapless "children"
were "brought here through no fault of their own".
And their parents? -- the very ones who were at fault?
What happens to them?
Ah, there it is -- the hidden agenda.
Wholesale amnesty.
How so?
Because, without wholesale amnesty,
including the parents,
then, immediately the specter arises,
and a new mantra,
or rather, an old mantra with a new life--
"breaking apart families".
Can't have that, can we?
So, surely as night follows day,
DACA Dreamers morph into Anchor Babies 2.0.
Chain migration raised to a whole new level.
33
Who has been paying the paychecks for all these decades of migration after Reagan signed 1986 "amnesty" legislation?
Could it be that paycheck providers are at fault?
And since no laws nor enforcement are directed at the farm, ranch, hotel, and meat-packing owners, will not the migration continue?
Nothing to say about Republicans exploiting illegal labor and causing this whole debacle over and over, sam finn?
Could it be that paycheck providers are at fault?
And since no laws nor enforcement are directed at the farm, ranch, hotel, and meat-packing owners, will not the migration continue?
Nothing to say about Republicans exploiting illegal labor and causing this whole debacle over and over, sam finn?
6
Sure,
"go after" the employers,
I will not object.
So, "go after" the employers,
at least those who have not followed the requirements of the law --
i.e. the Form I-9 requirements.
Don't know what that is?
Better go inform yourself.
Meantime, regardless whether the employers are culpable,
and (if they are) regardless whether they are prosecuted,
the illegal alien employee remains an illegal alien,
and can be deported.
The fact that an illegal alien has found an employer to hire him
does not prevent the rest of us in the USA from enforcing the immigration laws.
"go after" the employers,
I will not object.
So, "go after" the employers,
at least those who have not followed the requirements of the law --
i.e. the Form I-9 requirements.
Don't know what that is?
Better go inform yourself.
Meantime, regardless whether the employers are culpable,
and (if they are) regardless whether they are prosecuted,
the illegal alien employee remains an illegal alien,
and can be deported.
The fact that an illegal alien has found an employer to hire him
does not prevent the rest of us in the USA from enforcing the immigration laws.
7
But the good news is that now that we've educated this small army of young people, when they return to their own countries they have the skills to improve the economies of those countries to the point that one day immigrants will be attracted there, as well as to the US. Karma!
15
Are you actually aware that most of these young people have been in this country longer than the place they'd be returning to?? -- In fact, many don't even know that tradition and culture.
Get real.
Get real.
3
The Congress never passed comprehensive immigration reform, so now the void has been filled with cruelty by an ignorant, self-serving demagogue and his supportive party. It'shameful!
5
Again a lot made out of nothing as these "dreamers" are a fraction of one percent of our population. They are here illegally period. Let the president force congress to come up with a solution and do something in the six month period he will allow. OUR tax dollars paid to educate these dreamers, pay for their hospitalization, and everything else.
14
So why not get a return on that investment? Mass amnesty, in the tradition of St Ronnie.
Or does the GOP have a short memory and no economic sense, in addition to their mile-wide capricious streak
Or does the GOP have a short memory and no economic sense, in addition to their mile-wide capricious streak
800,000 dreamers....each has two parents....each has at least 4 siblings.
So it is not 800,000 PEOPLE. It is 5.6 MILLION people.
More than the population of Denmark.
So it is not 800,000 PEOPLE. It is 5.6 MILLION people.
More than the population of Denmark.
8
They will be followed by yet Latinos we don't need and did not invite.
2
I'm sad about this but to be honest, this odious human is wreaking so much havoc that doesn't get reported, like rolling back environmental controls, cutting funding to the EPA, funneling money up to the wealthy, cutting programs for school children, rolling back money for women's programs... the list goes on and on.
And that said, let's be honest, Congress will come up with something. It's in their own best interest, now isn't it?
And that said, let's be honest, Congress will come up with something. It's in their own best interest, now isn't it?
3
Deporting these kids would be like taking a fish out of water. I can't imagine what I'd do if tomorrow I was mailed to Outer Mongolia for life because my parents were illegal aliens.
As a Trump supporter, I hope Trump will go and make DACA permanent.
As a Trump supporter, I hope Trump will go and make DACA permanent.
1
Mexico is NOT "outer Mongolia!" Mexico is peaceful democracy, the 14th largest economy in the world, and has national health care.
And if you were MONGOLIAN...and born in Mongolia...and a Mongolian CITIZEN....then returning you to Mongolia would be the fair and decent thing to do.
And if you were MONGOLIAN...and born in Mongolia...and a Mongolian CITIZEN....then returning you to Mongolia would be the fair and decent thing to do.
8
We don't think that the dear United States is in the same frame of mind of, say, the Venezuela's regime that uses its databases to compare voters Vs. government's employees. A huge majority of the voters in the election that created the spurious Asamblea Constituyente, were forced to vote by their bosses. It's a test of loyalty they were told.
Long live DACA!
Long live DACA!
1
This president again figuratively wraps himself hooded in shimmering white. His is a nasty, cruel mind, commanding immense power. There is no end to his hatred of everything that Obama achieved. That so many are made to suffer is just fine and dandy. Serve those people right for being of color too, or Latino, or Hispanic….who cares; if they aren’t white they aren’t welcome. Who cares?
But millions do care and they grieve at the tragedy of a nation undone by this appalling person.
But millions do care and they grieve at the tragedy of a nation undone by this appalling person.
3
Expelling Dreamers will not improve our country.
Root cause analysis - Reduction in wages and job loss is not the result of immigrants, legal or illegal or Dreamers. It is because investors squeeze corporate management to keep profits high or they'll tank the stock.
So the Board of Directors squeezes management and management squeezes employees and suppliers.
We could expell all Dreamers, build the wall, even eliminate all immigrants, and guess what - investors will still squeeze management ......and wages will not increase.
After the Dreamers are gone, and the wages still don't improve, who will Trump blame then?
Root cause analysis - Reduction in wages and job loss is not the result of immigrants, legal or illegal or Dreamers. It is because investors squeeze corporate management to keep profits high or they'll tank the stock.
So the Board of Directors squeezes management and management squeezes employees and suppliers.
We could expell all Dreamers, build the wall, even eliminate all immigrants, and guess what - investors will still squeeze management ......and wages will not increase.
After the Dreamers are gone, and the wages still don't improve, who will Trump blame then?
5
Who will Trump blame?? -- the usual suspects: Obama, Clinton, the Democrats.
3
The "rule of law" excuse rings hollow with all the laws the right is trying to circumvent.
2
Trump is ever sadistic, choosing cruelty and the most vile path to play to his base who have promised to rise up in armed insurrection is he is impeached. Watch the whole picture unfold, the creeping fascism, the utter disregard for everything that is decent and right, the craven actions. I hope I live long enough to dance on his grave.
4
A man as preoccupied with himself as trump is has little or no concern for others.
4
The Dreamers can only wish, hope, pray and dream that they can be the kind of foreign immigrants favored by the House of Trump and his partisan political acolytes and supporters.
Donald Trump's German grandfather came to America fleeing criminal prosecution for dodging the German military draft. Trump's Scottish mother came to America and married into a real estate fortune. The first and third Mrs. Donald Trump- Ivana and Melania- are ethnic Slavic Czech and Slovenian communist atheist models who married into an inherited New York City real estate family fortune.
Steve Jobs was the biological son of a Syrian Arab Muslim father. Barack Obama was the son of a Kenyan Luo Muslim student father.
Donald Trump's German grandfather came to America fleeing criminal prosecution for dodging the German military draft. Trump's Scottish mother came to America and married into a real estate fortune. The first and third Mrs. Donald Trump- Ivana and Melania- are ethnic Slavic Czech and Slovenian communist atheist models who married into an inherited New York City real estate family fortune.
Steve Jobs was the biological son of a Syrian Arab Muslim father. Barack Obama was the son of a Kenyan Luo Muslim student father.
1
Ending DACA is kind of like abortion. Women should have the right to choose, at least until a point. This does not mean it is not killing and we do not understand what is happening to the baby. That is truly a tragedy.
The same with DACA. We, the American people, should have the right to enforce our laws. People who flout them do so at their peril. This is simply an example of the stupidity of people ignoring the law. Yes, I feel bad for the child killed by the expectant mother, just like I feel bad for the English speaking 14 year old sent with his family back to Mexico, where he has not been since he was 2. Still, it is the law, and we should not encourage parents to break the law. They have to understand there will be consequences to their family if they ignore our laws.
Allow abortion.
End DACA.
The same with DACA. We, the American people, should have the right to enforce our laws. People who flout them do so at their peril. This is simply an example of the stupidity of people ignoring the law. Yes, I feel bad for the child killed by the expectant mother, just like I feel bad for the English speaking 14 year old sent with his family back to Mexico, where he has not been since he was 2. Still, it is the law, and we should not encourage parents to break the law. They have to understand there will be consequences to their family if they ignore our laws.
Allow abortion.
End DACA.
8
Just watched Jeff Sessions make his announcement. He snarled, he smirked at revealing times, and he bounced with glee as he dropped the hammer. Law and order? In an administration that has insulted Latinos from day 1 of the Trump campaign, and recently pardoned Joe Arpaio?
5
For the sake of philosophical consistency, we should change our national motto from "e pluribus unum" to "gratuitous cruelty."
2
Because we don't allow yet more Mexicans to move here?
6
This is trump undoing Obama for the ribbing he got at the Journalist's dinner.
This is trump trying to control the demographics of an immigrant nation and
ensure a white majority. This is trump deeply offended and threatened by the
fact of a black man in the Oval Office. This is trump on another spate of
insatiable vengeance This is trump whose sickness will undo
not only our democracy, but what we think of ourselves as decent human beings.
This might be a good time for Mueller to investigate the "real" immigrant
status of Melania trump...and what deals were made to overlook the fact that she worked here without the proper papers.
Explain the legal obligation and responsibility of a 2 year old crossing our border. Explain how even a minority of this country can produce such cruelty to innocents.
i feel deeply ashamed.....I guess we are not what we keep telling the world we are...
Canada will welcome you with open arms and we have lost all that these
youngsters will create and contribute to our country.
finally, and true to his cowardice, he let someone else do the telling while he hid
from the cameras...ironic
This is trump trying to control the demographics of an immigrant nation and
ensure a white majority. This is trump deeply offended and threatened by the
fact of a black man in the Oval Office. This is trump on another spate of
insatiable vengeance This is trump whose sickness will undo
not only our democracy, but what we think of ourselves as decent human beings.
This might be a good time for Mueller to investigate the "real" immigrant
status of Melania trump...and what deals were made to overlook the fact that she worked here without the proper papers.
Explain the legal obligation and responsibility of a 2 year old crossing our border. Explain how even a minority of this country can produce such cruelty to innocents.
i feel deeply ashamed.....I guess we are not what we keep telling the world we are...
Canada will welcome you with open arms and we have lost all that these
youngsters will create and contribute to our country.
finally, and true to his cowardice, he let someone else do the telling while he hid
from the cameras...ironic
4
Canada is very welcome to all the illegals they choose to accept from the USA.
However, they are GOING -- out of this nation, where they are here ILLEGALLY.
If you have a case against Melania Trump....bring it. I think you will find that the statute of limitations ran out a long time ago, and she is a naturalized US citizen, married to a US citizen and has a son who is a native born US citizen.
However, they are GOING -- out of this nation, where they are here ILLEGALLY.
If you have a case against Melania Trump....bring it. I think you will find that the statute of limitations ran out a long time ago, and she is a naturalized US citizen, married to a US citizen and has a son who is a native born US citizen.
4
What do dreamers do now? Honestly, that is really their problem and that of their parents and families - who should have asked that same question when they decided to live in the US illegally, raising their children in an unlawful situation. I teach my children to adhere to the law. If DACA stays then these dreamer kids will learn that it's ok to disrespect legal boundaries and institutions, that it's normal that someone else will pick up their slack, and that's it's ok to trespass and steal. Well here is what I teach my kids: Things like these are NOT ok. The law is the law is the law, and no sad story is ever going to change that. Dreamers got a great education in the US. They should take it along as a gift, it will give them an advantage in their future.
11
Apart from the direct effects of deportation, the trauma of betrayal will haunt these victims of Trumpism for decades. They put their trust in our government by disclosing their names and other personal identification. That trust is betrayed by the use of voluntarily-supplied information to hunt them down and deport them. Shame on us for tolerating this tyrant and his immoral behavior.
2
Those opposed to the Dreamers keep calling them lawbreakers. Well, then, ever hear of the Attractive Nuisance law? For example, if you install a swimming pool in your backyard and fail to fence it, and a toddler is attracted to it--then drowns, YOU are legally liable.
So, as a nation, here we were with an unfenced, unpatrolled border. (Also failing to maintain social security surveillance over US employers.) Hungry foreigners were attracted to the chance to earn a decent living, in a safe place--they crossed the border, bringing their toddlers with them. (While we as a nation were negligently breaking the attractive nuisance law.)
Now we want to punish the grown-up toddlers? I think the dreamers should be joining in a class action suit against the states that failed to enforce their southern borders. Deportation now would definitely damage the dreamers. They should sue under the attractive nuisance law!
Take that, you hypocrites.
So, as a nation, here we were with an unfenced, unpatrolled border. (Also failing to maintain social security surveillance over US employers.) Hungry foreigners were attracted to the chance to earn a decent living, in a safe place--they crossed the border, bringing their toddlers with them. (While we as a nation were negligently breaking the attractive nuisance law.)
Now we want to punish the grown-up toddlers? I think the dreamers should be joining in a class action suit against the states that failed to enforce their southern borders. Deportation now would definitely damage the dreamers. They should sue under the attractive nuisance law!
Take that, you hypocrites.
1
That is not remotely what an "attractive nuisance" law applies to, and getting "revenge" on decent Americans who want secure borders and the orderly enforcement of immigration law, is pathetic and cheap.
An entire nation is not a swimming pool.
Even if I had that pool and that toddler drowned ... my insurance would pay the claim off. The toddler's parents would not therefore have the right to use my pool or squat on my property in "retribution".
An entire nation is not a swimming pool.
Even if I had that pool and that toddler drowned ... my insurance would pay the claim off. The toddler's parents would not therefore have the right to use my pool or squat on my property in "retribution".
5
Another cruel and cowardly act by our non-president. He sends Sessions out to take the heat and then once again throws the ball to Congress to clean up the mess.
Oh, and in the meantime 800,000 innocent effective, educated and productive citizens are threatened with deportation. Yes, citizens. For the DACA residents have as a group more than proven their loyalty to America and their right to continue to live in the only nation they have ever known. They are better citizens than the xenophobic bigots in Trump's "base" who have rejected the basic decency that is the bedrock of our nation.
Oh, and in the meantime 800,000 innocent effective, educated and productive citizens are threatened with deportation. Yes, citizens. For the DACA residents have as a group more than proven their loyalty to America and their right to continue to live in the only nation they have ever known. They are better citizens than the xenophobic bigots in Trump's "base" who have rejected the basic decency that is the bedrock of our nation.
4
I wonder how many of those who are lustily cheering Trump's soulless, heartless response to people who, in most respects, are as "American" as they are call themselves Christian.
3
DACA is good for Democrat's favorite group. So, they support it, though it is not based on sound legal application. Republicans, in general, are not so sure, so they oppose the program. So, what should happen. Let the Congress make it legal. For this program to become legal with Trump's signature, the Congress has to agree to meet Trump's conditions such as building a wall where it is required and other measures to stop illegal dreamers to come and change the immigration rules to make it based on merit and points by applying some points to family connection.
4
This is cruel and needless. Many of the people commenting have no idea how DACA even operates - it is not automatic amnesty. You must apply and pay a fee; there are also standards on who gets accepted - if you have a criminal record or aren't working, you probably aren't going to be accepted.
The biggest arguments against illegal immigrants is that they are a drain on resources and at worst, a threat to security. Here we have individuals who are paying into the system, working hard and giving all of their data to the government and now they are being betrayed. There is no point to this other than to make a ploy to his hateful base. It will cost of millions of dollars to deport all of these people but I don't see any conservatives complaining about that.
The biggest arguments against illegal immigrants is that they are a drain on resources and at worst, a threat to security. Here we have individuals who are paying into the system, working hard and giving all of their data to the government and now they are being betrayed. There is no point to this other than to make a ploy to his hateful base. It will cost of millions of dollars to deport all of these people but I don't see any conservatives complaining about that.
2
It is not betrayal to return to their native homelands.
They got 2-3 years here "free" and tax ID numbers and no deportations. That time has ended, and sanity has returned to US politics.
They are ALL going home. Accept it.
They got 2-3 years here "free" and tax ID numbers and no deportations. That time has ended, and sanity has returned to US politics.
They are ALL going home. Accept it.
5
They ARE home.
When they are deported and the US has blown millions of dollars deporting them, who will you blame for your failures?
When they are deported and the US has blown millions of dollars deporting them, who will you blame for your failures?
1
Well, he in fact did it. But instead of the headline, "What Do Dreamers Do Now?" I dream of seeing a headline that says, "What Do We Do Now?"
This presidency is out of control, and Trump seems intent on betraying every promise he made in his campaign, every statement in which he attested to having a heart. It's quite clear that he is a liar with no heart whatsoever and no mental capabilities that fit into the realm of normal.
So the question is, What do we do? How much is this country willing to put up with from a chief executive who is clearly deranged?
He is singularly unfit for ANY public office. So when does this country start correcting this situation? November? And if that doesn't work?
He needs to be stopped. And we need people on both sides of the political aisle to see that, clearly and quickly. While we still can repair his damage to our democracy.
This presidency is out of control, and Trump seems intent on betraying every promise he made in his campaign, every statement in which he attested to having a heart. It's quite clear that he is a liar with no heart whatsoever and no mental capabilities that fit into the realm of normal.
So the question is, What do we do? How much is this country willing to put up with from a chief executive who is clearly deranged?
He is singularly unfit for ANY public office. So when does this country start correcting this situation? November? And if that doesn't work?
He needs to be stopped. And we need people on both sides of the political aisle to see that, clearly and quickly. While we still can repair his damage to our democracy.
3
We are not Mexico. We are not obligated to let Mexicans move here.
6
Is there some way that an American citizen can sponsor a Dreamer? You know, like foreign-exchange students. Seems to me that someone really smart out there could find a legal way to create such a program (if there isn't one already), and then those who are willing and able could sign on to be sponsors....
2
I am 68 years old. I've lived in Massachusetts since 1970. I guess that means I am not a native of Mass. even though I've lived here 38 years as opposed to the 21 years I lived in N.J. That I was born in N.J. means only that my mother (who was born on Mississippi) was in N.J. when she had me. What where I was born
only means is that where I was born was where I was born. Which means what?
I don't know WHAT that means except that when I was born it was someplace on planet Earth.
only means is that where I was born was where I was born. Which means what?
I don't know WHAT that means except that when I was born it was someplace on planet Earth.
1
You are a citizen of the USA -- not of the STATE in which you live. States are not nations. They are states. (Duh.)
You can live in any US state and move freely between states -- as often as you like. You can move from city to city also. This is a free country! for citizens of this country!
By your logic, there can be no borders or laws or immigration rules -- and anyone on this planet of 7.5 BILLION can come to the US and just stay here, go on welfare and steal our jobs.
You can live in any US state and move freely between states -- as often as you like. You can move from city to city also. This is a free country! for citizens of this country!
By your logic, there can be no borders or laws or immigration rules -- and anyone on this planet of 7.5 BILLION can come to the US and just stay here, go on welfare and steal our jobs.
5
The "dreamers" could leave and get in line like every other immigrant.
15
What do dreamers do now?
They go home.
They go home.
13
Eric, this is their home.
3
Read the article. "Home" for many of them is the United States.
3
The dreamers are here illegally.
This is not their home.
This is not their home.
5
It is very, very simple: if you are not an American citizen, you MUST return to your native homeland or be deported ASAP.
The American people are DONE with tolerating illegal aliens.
I am sorry that children get dragged first TO America when minors....then now must be dragged BACK to Mexico or Central America -- but that is the fault of their illegal criminal parents who do not respect laws or borders.
Any "dreamer" who reaches 18 and full legal adulthood, KNOWS they are not a US citizen -- simply signing up for DACA proves they KNOW they are NOT supposed to be here -- and should have made plans already to return to their native homeland.
I do not go to Mexico (or France, Denmark,Sweden,Canada) and show up expecting a job and welfare and free healthcare and bilingual education. If I did, I would be DEPORTED immediately -- as is proper.
The American people are DONE with tolerating illegal aliens.
I am sorry that children get dragged first TO America when minors....then now must be dragged BACK to Mexico or Central America -- but that is the fault of their illegal criminal parents who do not respect laws or borders.
Any "dreamer" who reaches 18 and full legal adulthood, KNOWS they are not a US citizen -- simply signing up for DACA proves they KNOW they are NOT supposed to be here -- and should have made plans already to return to their native homeland.
I do not go to Mexico (or France, Denmark,Sweden,Canada) and show up expecting a job and welfare and free healthcare and bilingual education. If I did, I would be DEPORTED immediately -- as is proper.
13
"The American people are DONE with tolerating illegal aliens."
Not all of these people are expecting a job, welfare, free healthcare and a bilingual education like you think -- Many are hard-working, tax-paying individuals.
And just who are you to speak for the American people, anyway?
Not all of these people are expecting a job, welfare, free healthcare and a bilingual education like you think -- Many are hard-working, tax-paying individuals.
And just who are you to speak for the American people, anyway?
4
Most of these Dreamers have large extended families back home.
They would not be returning to a strangers.
The large amount of money they send back home tells the story.
The Democrats are only crying because their community outreach for new voters didn't work.
They would not be returning to a strangers.
The large amount of money they send back home tells the story.
The Democrats are only crying because their community outreach for new voters didn't work.
12
Back "home" is their home in the United States.
2
Well the Dems did get 2.8 million illegals in the sanctuary state of California to vote for Hillary.
So there's that.
So there's that.
3
"Well, the Dems did get 2.8 million illegals in the sanctuary state of California to vote for Hilary."
Prove it.
Prove it.
2
The bully picks on the younger, weaker people unable to stand up against him.
He doesn't protect the vulnerable.
He doesn't protect the vulnerable.
3
Hey, maybe Mexico will welcome these educated, ambitious,
multi-lingual, proven hard workers into the fold, and we can
look around for young labor among "native" white Americans
presently on welfare in the South. American businesses
immigrant labor, so it is their loss, just as Georgia has lost
15 million bucks in two years running what with crops rotting
in the fields because Georgia tossed out immigrant labor,
probably for racist reasons. But they can't get Whites to
do that work.
multi-lingual, proven hard workers into the fold, and we can
look around for young labor among "native" white Americans
presently on welfare in the South. American businesses
immigrant labor, so it is their loss, just as Georgia has lost
15 million bucks in two years running what with crops rotting
in the fields because Georgia tossed out immigrant labor,
probably for racist reasons. But they can't get Whites to
do that work.
2
Poesy: I drive through Georgia twice a year -- coming and going from Florida, where I have elderly in-laws.
It is a happy, stable prosperous state. Atlanta especially is booming.
I seriously doubt this lefty meme of "crops rotting in the fields". We regularly stop at farmer's markets in Georgia, to buy wonderful peaches.
It is a happy, stable prosperous state. Atlanta especially is booming.
I seriously doubt this lefty meme of "crops rotting in the fields". We regularly stop at farmer's markets in Georgia, to buy wonderful peaches.
4
What gives any of us the arrogant right to proclaim some of us 'immigrants', and the rest of us to be the rightful gatekeepers of this exclusive country-club of a country?
Last I checked, we are all immigrants, save for Native Americans (hence the name).
This is just another effort by the reviled 'haves' to torment and exploit a group of 'have-nots' in the name of patriotism. How does anyone have the audacity to determine which immigrants can come to America?
The old saying 'I would not want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member' is beginning to feel an awful lot like the United States to an awful lot of people.
Last I checked, we are all immigrants, save for Native Americans (hence the name).
This is just another effort by the reviled 'haves' to torment and exploit a group of 'have-nots' in the name of patriotism. How does anyone have the audacity to determine which immigrants can come to America?
The old saying 'I would not want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member' is beginning to feel an awful lot like the United States to an awful lot of people.
5
What gives us the right? Laws - immigration laws to be specific.
11
I'm glad to see the role of Congress being restored.
Shame on Obama for his disregard of the Constitution as regards immigration law - as well as his mendacity on lower premiums in healthcare.
DACA beneficiaries are not all wonderful citizens - here in Arizona they appear on crime sheets just like other citizens and other illegal immigrants.
Shame on Obama for his disregard of the Constitution as regards immigration law - as well as his mendacity on lower premiums in healthcare.
DACA beneficiaries are not all wonderful citizens - here in Arizona they appear on crime sheets just like other citizens and other illegal immigrants.
10
DACA does not allow people who have criminal records. Do you know what DACA entails? Have you read the requirements for the program?
3
This is another example of how the left has apparently become unhinged by the election of Donald Trump as President. While living in the South and conservative mid-west, I was shocked at how the conservative political areas of our country were unhinged by the election of Barack Obama. The irrational vitriolic verbal attacks on President Obama were disgusting, but now the left are demonstrating that they are of the same ilk as the right wingers. Very sad for the future of our country. In my opinion, the USA has great institutions and a fair system of laws, but not perfect. The people who live in the USA are apparently not worthy of the legacy of the USA, which still needs perfecting not destroying.
7
Since the kids entered the country without the mens rea--evil intent--required of most criminal offenses, they can't be considered criminal on those grounds. And since they have lived here for many years, without government action against them, there is a laches argument to be made: the government should have acted promptly to evict them instead of sitting on its rights. This is quite apart from the humane argument, expected of a civilized society, that the havoc wreaked on their lives, and those of their families, is unconscionable. But are we a civilized society these days? It's anyone's guess.
1
Actually, there are some criminal laws that do not require mens rea.
But aside, from that,
there are many situations not involving criminal law at all,
but involving civil or administrative law when actions -- or, indeed, "status" --
are "illegal" -- such as an illegal left turn, or parking in an illegal location.
The Dreamers might not be criminally liable,
but they are illegal aliens --
i.e.. they are aliens,
and they are here illegally -- without legal authorization --
and they can be "removed" -- deported.
DACA provides "deferred action" --
but the "deferral" is not perpetual.
And of course, DACA itself can be terminated or revoked.
But aside, from that,
there are many situations not involving criminal law at all,
but involving civil or administrative law when actions -- or, indeed, "status" --
are "illegal" -- such as an illegal left turn, or parking in an illegal location.
The Dreamers might not be criminally liable,
but they are illegal aliens --
i.e.. they are aliens,
and they are here illegally -- without legal authorization --
and they can be "removed" -- deported.
DACA provides "deferred action" --
but the "deferral" is not perpetual.
And of course, DACA itself can be terminated or revoked.
1
If it were up to me, they would have all been deported years ago. It's not my fault that lefty libs have tried ANYTHING to get illegals to stay here.
Besides, NOBODY says to prosecute nor jail these young people. They are simply being asked to return to their native homeland.
Besides, NOBODY says to prosecute nor jail these young people. They are simply being asked to return to their native homeland.
4
We can be assured the term "big heart", as DT exclaimed about DACA, is not to be found in either Jeff Sessions or his henchman Steven Miller who authored this declaration.
1
" Even if Congress, sometime in the future, were to enact a legislative equivalent of DACA, what are the chances that undocumented immigrants would once again put their faith in a government database?"
And some of you folks wonder why we will not let our names be put in a government data base because we own guns?
And some of you folks wonder why we will not let our names be put in a government data base because we own guns?
5
When Australia confiscated all personal firearms, about 20 years ago....the way they did that, was by using the databases of all registered guns in the country. They had addresses, names, phone numbers and if you did not voluntarily give up your guns, they came to your home and seized the guns.
4
All Americans are aghast.
I will write to my Democratic Senators and Congressman just because it's the right thing to do to ask them to support these fine young people. Which they will all do.
Hope Robert Mueller can provide evidence to indict Trump before this happens.
I will write to my Democratic Senators and Congressman just because it's the right thing to do to ask them to support these fine young people. Which they will all do.
Hope Robert Mueller can provide evidence to indict Trump before this happens.
2
"these fine young people"
How many of them do you know? Do you claim to know all 800,000?
How many of them do you know? Do you claim to know all 800,000?
6
Dreamers are not the only problem. Maybe not even the biggest problem. What do the law and entrapment say about Dreamers' parents and relatives, many of whom must still be illegal and very vulnerable to ICE apprehension and deportation for the original sin of coming to America years ago? Despite decades of living and contributing to America?
We're not talking only about 800,000 dreamers but potentially many times that number. Maybe 1% or more of the population. We're talking about an epidemic of bad faith and alt-right nationalism. An offense against humanity.
We're not talking only about 800,000 dreamers but potentially many times that number. Maybe 1% or more of the population. We're talking about an epidemic of bad faith and alt-right nationalism. An offense against humanity.
2
Adopt a Dreamer. He or she can become a US citizen. Check with an immigration attorney.
3
You do realize that most of the Dreamers have parents already?
5
The only promise was made to the American public in 1986. One time amnesty and that's it. That's all that counts and all that should be kept.
12
Many commentators have blamed President Obamas´s administration of deporting nearly 2 million people over the course of his 8 years in office. Well, I would like to make a point here. The illegal inmigrants who were deported under Obama were primarily people who had recently crossed the border or were classified as convicted felons or under suspicion. Now, what Trump plans to do is outrageous. One thing is to deport someone who has not links to the US whatsoever, is seeking for a job in the country, and who ultimately might end up falling in criminal activites, and another one is to deport people who work, study, pay taxes, contribute to the country´s economy and are law abiding citizens. They will not be sent home. Their home is the US. If Trump ends DACA, and if Congress fails to pass an inmigration reform, which is most likely to happen due to the radical Tea Party at the House, and despite historical bipartisan efforts by presidents and senators over the last years, the US government will make one of the most unfair, inhumane and economically damaging decisions in recent history.
3
“But as in so many cases under this still-young administration, the expansive CRUELTY of the executive branch may yet be tempered by the powers and wisdom of America’s legal system.”
Well, We The Great Majority of The People who did NOT vote for this diabolical narcissist, sincerely hope so.
Well, We The Great Majority of The People who did NOT vote for this diabolical narcissist, sincerely hope so.
2
306 Electoral votes.
You only need 270 to win.
Trump won.
Sorry, but your argument does not hold water.
You only need 270 to win.
Trump won.
Sorry, but your argument does not hold water.
3
In general, I believe the immigration laws ought to be enforced HOWEVER, in this case, since the government had a policy of cheap illegal labor these innocent children should not be held accountable and should be considered American Citizens just as if they were born here. This is just plain wrong.
As usual, Trump has made a decision that no sensible business person would make. Canceling DACA is a lose-lose proposition.
4
Maybe a better question is what do we do now? The Dreamers registered thereby giving the government enough information to find them. There were assurances given that this information would not be used against them or to find them. If anyone has a reason to distrust the government now it's the Dreamers. How do we tell them that America is a safe country for them? We can't and it's because our country allows employers to escape the consequences of hiring undocumented immigrants. Stop letting employers and agencies get away with hiring and underpaying undocumented immigrants and acts like DACA won't be necessary.
Then we need to look at who we let into America and why. Refugees from persecution ought to be allowed in. People we ask to help us when we're fighting a war ought to be able to settle here. And we should not be excluding people on the basis of their religion. But we also should not be allowing rich foreigners to buy a green card the way we have. That cheapens the privilege of being a citizen in any country.
Then we need to look at who we let into America and why. Refugees from persecution ought to be allowed in. People we ask to help us when we're fighting a war ought to be able to settle here. And we should not be excluding people on the basis of their religion. But we also should not be allowing rich foreigners to buy a green card the way we have. That cheapens the privilege of being a citizen in any country.
9
There were assurances given that this information would not be used against them or to find them.
They can look up the person who gave them assurances.
They can look up the person who gave them assurances.
3
President Obama called it a "temporary", "stopgap" measure, after clearly stating in 2011 he had no authority to change immigration policy.
Then, he did nothing.
In fact he campaigned on comprehensive Immigration Reform, which was very achievable in his first term.
It is an issue for Congress, not the Executive branch.
Obama could have done the same thing, and hold Congress accountable.
He choose not to.
Then, he did nothing.
In fact he campaigned on comprehensive Immigration Reform, which was very achievable in his first term.
It is an issue for Congress, not the Executive branch.
Obama could have done the same thing, and hold Congress accountable.
He choose not to.
14
I find this 1) cowardly on DJT's part and 2) heart-breaking. After all that has happened on the ACA I can't believe that Congress will pass adequate legislation in time for these young people.
I find this cruel beyond belief. I haven't marched on an issue yet in spite of being opposed to everything DJT stands for. I'll march on this one!!!
I find this cruel beyond belief. I haven't marched on an issue yet in spite of being opposed to everything DJT stands for. I'll march on this one!!!
7
Stop calling these "Dreamers" kids. The average age is 36. They are adults. And what about the 45% of the "Dreamers" overstaying their Visas? They are criminals.
I rob a bank. My kids can keep the money I stole.
See the illogic? See the insanity of DACA?
I rob a bank. My kids can keep the money I stole.
See the illogic? See the insanity of DACA?
19
Absolutely wrong. What is your information source? The average age is 22 according to studies such as that by the Cato Institute, and many are younger. They have ALL been screened by the Department of Homeland Security, and none have criminal records. They pay $500 per year to be here as a fee, as well as pay taxes including Social Security (none of which they benefit from). Economic studies show that they country would lose $280 billion in 10 years if DACA ends, and businesses will also lose billions. This is foolish, and will harm the economy. Just who do you think is paying Social Security for the elderly? The US does not have enough young people to continue paying.
False and non-factual.
False and non-factual.
4
Where do you get your facts from? A "Dreamer" had to be under age 31 in 2012 and under 16 when brought to this country. That does not make the average "Dreamer" 36.
"And what about the 45% of the "Dreamers" overstaying their Visas?" Firstly it is 45% of all illegals, not just "Dreamers". Most "Dreamers" do not have a visa as they were sneaked in by their parents. However, that is the point. They are here illegally. Many of those brought over would more than likely not even know they were in the USA illegally.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917
Why not check some facts and get acquainted with the process and the requirements? I am a legal immigrant and the process is no less stringent for these people. I chose to leave my country. These children/adults did not and know no other life. Nearly half the people illegally in this country didn't cross the desert or pay a smuggler. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, they crossed legally at a port of entry and knowingly overstayed. These "Dreamers" did not.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/consideration-deferred-action-childho...
"And what about the 45% of the "Dreamers" overstaying their Visas?" Firstly it is 45% of all illegals, not just "Dreamers". Most "Dreamers" do not have a visa as they were sneaked in by their parents. However, that is the point. They are here illegally. Many of those brought over would more than likely not even know they were in the USA illegally.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5485917
Why not check some facts and get acquainted with the process and the requirements? I am a legal immigrant and the process is no less stringent for these people. I chose to leave my country. These children/adults did not and know no other life. Nearly half the people illegally in this country didn't cross the desert or pay a smuggler. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, they crossed legally at a port of entry and knowingly overstayed. These "Dreamers" did not.
https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/consideration-deferred-action-childho...
5
Most here do not rely on logic for their arguments, they rely on emotion.
5
If Mexico is such a failed state that these students will have no opportunity there, and it is a punishment for them to be sent home, then there's much more that we should do.
We need to do something for the millions born in and suffering in Mexico. Bring back Manifest Destiny. That made San Antonio and San Diego the prosperous cities they are and the destination for many from south of the border.
Imagine how prosperous Veracruz, Acapulco and other coastal cities would be with a strong rule of law, property rights and the dollar for currency.
Rather than taking the 800k dreamers out of poverty, why not lift all of Mexico?
We need to do something for the millions born in and suffering in Mexico. Bring back Manifest Destiny. That made San Antonio and San Diego the prosperous cities they are and the destination for many from south of the border.
Imagine how prosperous Veracruz, Acapulco and other coastal cities would be with a strong rule of law, property rights and the dollar for currency.
Rather than taking the 800k dreamers out of poverty, why not lift all of Mexico?
5
It is easy to stop illegal Mexican immigration.
Stop hiring them.
And lock up the people who do hire them.
Stop hiring them.
And lock up the people who do hire them.
19
Sounds good, doesn't it? -- But you'd probably change your mind if you had ANY idea of just how much that would interfere with you daily routine.
1
Hey Australia you should put out the welcome matt for these people. As a former US resident of the land down under you need people and these kids are educated and ambitious just the kind of people any country should be proud to call their own.
3
Ten years from now there will be hundreds of thousands of new “dreamer” well integrated, english speaking, without criminal record individuals that will say, me too.. They will be exactly in the same conditions.
Unless congress introduces a bipartisan immigration law, laws that has to be enforced, there is no end in sight to all this. Democrat should offer something as well to the negotiation, I do not find unreasonable proposals of mandatory jail for repeated illegal immigration offender for example, or some basic cooperation between sanctuary cities and federal government.
Unless congress introduces a bipartisan immigration law, laws that has to be enforced, there is no end in sight to all this. Democrat should offer something as well to the negotiation, I do not find unreasonable proposals of mandatory jail for repeated illegal immigration offender for example, or some basic cooperation between sanctuary cities and federal government.
9
Dealing with and finding an equitable solution to the DACA program would require leadership on the part of all three branches of government...... FAT CHANCE! Remember when we believed that we were sending people to Washington to solve problems?
3
There are many of us who already knew this so-called president would create far more problems than he could solve.
6
I propose putting dinner tables along the Mexican border as a way of getting to better know and appreciate our closest neighbors. Sound crazy? Well, so are walls, which in the long run have never ever worked. Time to try something else. DACA kids, thank you for your contributions to keeping America great. You represent true freedom to this old white male American veteran. I stand with you.
4
There are so many misleading statements in this NYT opinion piece, that it is hard to know where to start. The courts found Obama's DAPA action to be illegal -- and are expected to find DACA illegal as well. This administration has provided for an orderly transition to a new immigration law, and Congress has ample time time to act if they chose to do so. If they do not chose to do so, then as a nation of laws (instead of opinions and preferences), we need to enforce the prevailing statutes. The issue with opinion pieces like this is it misleads readers and encourages the kind of 'free for all' that was a favorite tactic of Obama. It creates the kind of disruption that we are seeing today.
20
DACA does enforce the prevailing statutes. It prioritizes deportation for criminals and de-prioritizes deportation for tax paying, law abiding people who were brought here as children.
There's NOTHING 'illegal' about it, that's why Sessions has to repeal it; he can't risk the courts finding it Constitutional.
There's NOTHING 'illegal' about it, that's why Sessions has to repeal it; he can't risk the courts finding it Constitutional.
Tell the whole truth: DAPA was not "found to be illegal". From Wikipedia: "On January 19, 2016 the Supreme Court agreed to review the case.[30] The Court took the unusual step of asking for briefing on the new constitutional question of whether DAPA violates the Take Care Clause.[31] On June 23, 2016, the Supreme Court announced it had deadlocked 4-4 in a decision that read, in its entirety, “The judgement is affirmed by an equally divided court.”[32] The ruling set no precedent and simply leaves in place the lower court’s preliminary injunction blocking the program.[32]" And that injunction was the work of Texas right-wing activist judge Andrew S. Hanen.
Congress was on the verge of passing immigration reform when House Majority Leader Eric Cantor was ousted in the Va-7 Republican primary by Tea Party extremist Dave Brat, who had argued (incredibly) that Cantor was "soft on immigration" --at which point immigration reform became toxic for the Republican party cowed by its extremist base. The Republican Party OWNS this country's failure to pass immigration reform. Truly sad!
Congress was on the verge of passing immigration reform when House Majority Leader Eric Cantor was ousted in the Va-7 Republican primary by Tea Party extremist Dave Brat, who had argued (incredibly) that Cantor was "soft on immigration" --at which point immigration reform became toxic for the Republican party cowed by its extremist base. The Republican Party OWNS this country's failure to pass immigration reform. Truly sad!
We need a legal doctrine for immigration similar to adverse possession in property law. If the business community is happy having undocumented people work for them, and the government turns a blind eye to it, after a certain period of time you should be on a legal path to citizenship.
2
A most humane act by Trump, that will force the cowards in Congress to act. How is keeping these people in permanent limbo with no path to citizenship humane?
5
I am sixty five years old. I grew up believing that my country was generous, fair and decent. It makes me sick to read most of the comments here from people who can't wait to send children back to countries they never knew. They hate Latinos so much that it's made them heartless, stupid and cruel. I can only hope that God is more forgiving of them than I am.
13
Smoke and mirrors! The only question on the table here is, "Will deporting the Dreamers infuriate the liberals and divide the country?" Since the answer is, "YES!" out they go. Big league.
44
That about sums up Trump's actions against DACA: he pulled the rug out from under DACA recipients just to infuriate liberals and spite former President Obama.
Mr. Trump, have you no sense of common human decency?
Mr. Trump, have you no sense of common human decency?
1
If you put your money where your mouth (or post) is you will lose. Few if any will be deported until the criminals are.
2
I don't want to see these kids sent to a country they never knew and I have a question. If these kids parents brought them here illegally under what circumstances did the parents enrer the US? I have never seen info on their status.
2
The parents are all in the country illegally, which the New York Times is always at great pains to ignore in stories about DACA. So, it's not really a program to give de facto legal status to children, it is a program to give de facto legal status to ANY illegal immigrant with a child.
If it were described that way in news coverage, the support for it would plummet and more people would recognize it for what it was: A cynical extralegal ploy by Democrats to keep a potent voting constituency in the country.
If it were described that way in news coverage, the support for it would plummet and more people would recognize it for what it was: A cynical extralegal ploy by Democrats to keep a potent voting constituency in the country.
7
Undocumented people can not register to vote.
It is up to congress to fix the immigration system! Are people saying that DACA is the long term life long solution for its participants? One compromise for congress to agree to would be path to citizenship for the DACA participants but no citizenship for the people who brought them here illegally... but both sides are dug in & compromise unlikely.
I find it very telling that on almost every subject it appears to be impossible for most of us to view any person's gain without imagining that someone else is losing. That is a very peculiar conceit given our country's relative wealth in relation to most of the world outside it.
Clearly ending DACA is not going to do anything but add to the problem of million of undocumented citizens in various situations that need to be viewed pragmatically, not hysterically. These young people are definitively not criminal, not in hiding and do not represent an "unskilled" labor force being paid off the books. They pay for their privileges. Nor, given the attitude of this administration and its justice or in my view injustice department, would their expulsion from schools or jobs move some other person on the line for citizenship up the ladder.
When it comes to the Trump Administration, we are talking about immigration absolutism, not equity here and one can say the same about most of their other policies, as well, including taxes. "Fairness" is relative and not something they appear to have the slightest interest in enacting; it's propaganda, pure and simple. Pitting one group of people against another is the way they do business and even conservative are beginning to realize it's not working to anyone's advantage.
Clearly ending DACA is not going to do anything but add to the problem of million of undocumented citizens in various situations that need to be viewed pragmatically, not hysterically. These young people are definitively not criminal, not in hiding and do not represent an "unskilled" labor force being paid off the books. They pay for their privileges. Nor, given the attitude of this administration and its justice or in my view injustice department, would their expulsion from schools or jobs move some other person on the line for citizenship up the ladder.
When it comes to the Trump Administration, we are talking about immigration absolutism, not equity here and one can say the same about most of their other policies, as well, including taxes. "Fairness" is relative and not something they appear to have the slightest interest in enacting; it's propaganda, pure and simple. Pitting one group of people against another is the way they do business and even conservative are beginning to realize it's not working to anyone's advantage.
5
You make excellent points. This administration seems to view immigration, specifically DACA, as a zero-sum game.
We should enforce our immigration laws. In the case of DACA, quick action by congress is needed so these people can go on with the lives they started here. Fairness is relative, but in this case, ending the uncertainty over what could be a frightening future is just the civilized thing to do.
We should enforce our immigration laws. In the case of DACA, quick action by congress is needed so these people can go on with the lives they started here. Fairness is relative, but in this case, ending the uncertainty over what could be a frightening future is just the civilized thing to do.
Ending DACA sends a much needed message that we are serious about our immigration laws. There's no such thing as an undocumented citizen. It's not fair to allow foreigners to dictate our immigration laws for their own personal benefit.
11
Interesting. Journalist Fareed Zakaria, no supporter of Trump and himself an immigrant from India, recently stated the Democrats must end their "absolutism" on immigration. In fact, I think the reason Trump won the election is because both parties lost all credibility on immigration by repeatedly failing to update our immigration system to a Canadian points-like system, as we've known we should do since at least Bill Clinton's first term; and because both parties failed to enforce the laws on the books.
So I understand what you are saying & there is a strong moral case for legislative codification of DACA. However, it should be part of a compromise package deal to embrace the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act. Where are the Democrats to embrace the RAISE Act? Even though it identically mirrors the recommendations of Bill Clinton's own Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform?
So I think I agree with Fareed, that, in fact, the Democrats have now become the party of immigration absolutism. The current iteration of the Democrats would kick Barbara Jordan out of the party. I am concerned the Democrats still want to be the party of no borders and de facto unlimited immigration, whether legal or illegal.
So I understand what you are saying & there is a strong moral case for legislative codification of DACA. However, it should be part of a compromise package deal to embrace the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act. Where are the Democrats to embrace the RAISE Act? Even though it identically mirrors the recommendations of Bill Clinton's own Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform?
So I think I agree with Fareed, that, in fact, the Democrats have now become the party of immigration absolutism. The current iteration of the Democrats would kick Barbara Jordan out of the party. I am concerned the Democrats still want to be the party of no borders and de facto unlimited immigration, whether legal or illegal.
8
It's clear that the editorial blogs of the NYT are under siege today from right-wingers who have gotten their marching orders from the dark unknown places on the web where they feed each other's hate and narcissism. It's absolutely impossible for the racists and extremists writing here today to be regular readers of the NYT--they could not be such ideological automatons if they were getting exposed to other views on any regular basis. Reagan wanted a thousand points of light but Trump just wants a thousand more little trumps, and they're all here today...
11
Hi Rich, long-time reader of the NYT here. Been reading it for over 25 years. 6 day subscription when I was in college in early 90's and Sunday subscriber for about 15 years now (plus digital).
In fact, I remember when the NYT (and the Democrats) still had some sanity on the issue of immigration. Mostly, when the Democrats were driving the agenda under Bill Clinton's Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform, led by African-American, Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Jordan. Unfortunately President Clinton chose to betray Ms. Jordan and kick the can down the road.
Journalist Fareed Zakaria (no Trump supporter) stated recently that the Democrats must abandon the "absolutism" on immigration. Historian Jon Meacham (again, no Trump supporter): "it is not racism to debate immigration." Past time for both parties to stop playing to the far extremes and make the hard compromises necessary to update our outdated immigration system. And that means embracing the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act to finally move US to Canadian style points system as part of a deal for the Dreamer Act.
In fact, I remember when the NYT (and the Democrats) still had some sanity on the issue of immigration. Mostly, when the Democrats were driving the agenda under Bill Clinton's Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform, led by African-American, Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Jordan. Unfortunately President Clinton chose to betray Ms. Jordan and kick the can down the road.
Journalist Fareed Zakaria (no Trump supporter) stated recently that the Democrats must abandon the "absolutism" on immigration. Historian Jon Meacham (again, no Trump supporter): "it is not racism to debate immigration." Past time for both parties to stop playing to the far extremes and make the hard compromises necessary to update our outdated immigration system. And that means embracing the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act to finally move US to Canadian style points system as part of a deal for the Dreamer Act.
27
Agreed. I was watching TV when Meacham made that statement.
The Canadian system works well- notably because it makes it near impossible for illegals to obtain jobs. A concept we would be well advised to emulate.
For the big issue is demand (for cheap labor) not the supply.
The Canadian system works well- notably because it makes it near impossible for illegals to obtain jobs. A concept we would be well advised to emulate.
For the big issue is demand (for cheap labor) not the supply.
8
There were provisions in the 2013 S744 resolution that addressed the issue of more qualified immigrants.
Of course it died in the ultra-right wing House.
Of course it died in the ultra-right wing House.
That photo in the W. Post this morning of Trump praying with religious leaders is a joke--what a hypocrite! But what do you expect from such a hollow man? As with everything else, he doesn't consider the long-term consequences of his actions---all of them!
4
Trump's "art of the deal" strategy seems to be common sense: you have to strike a deal between 2 sides (in this case, the White House and Congress), so you threaten to do something the other side dislikes if it doesn't do what you like. That's how you force them to do what you like and they don't want.
Of course, these are not business deals, so there's always a third side: the American people.
As long as a majority perceives you as fighting for their ideals, they'll reelect you. And it doesn't have to be a majority of the American people, only a majority of those who go voting (or the electoral college) is enough to win.
That's why Trump tweets, and now threatens to get rid of DACA even when there's no "replace" bill (comprehensive immigration reform) passed in Congress within six months. To the minority of Americans who support him, he's once again proving that he's on their side, so this again keeps his own base fired up, and Trump is clearly calculating that as long as that's the case, he'll be reelected.
In real life though, members of Congress are being held accountable by their own constituents alone. That's why it's almost impossible to get bills that only 19% of the American people support (such as Ryancare or letting American taxpayers pay for the wall) passed in Congress.
Just like what happened with healthcare, threatening to hurt the American people if Congress refuses to pass a bill that only a small minority of extremists support, won't work, of course.
Of course, these are not business deals, so there's always a third side: the American people.
As long as a majority perceives you as fighting for their ideals, they'll reelect you. And it doesn't have to be a majority of the American people, only a majority of those who go voting (or the electoral college) is enough to win.
That's why Trump tweets, and now threatens to get rid of DACA even when there's no "replace" bill (comprehensive immigration reform) passed in Congress within six months. To the minority of Americans who support him, he's once again proving that he's on their side, so this again keeps his own base fired up, and Trump is clearly calculating that as long as that's the case, he'll be reelected.
In real life though, members of Congress are being held accountable by their own constituents alone. That's why it's almost impossible to get bills that only 19% of the American people support (such as Ryancare or letting American taxpayers pay for the wall) passed in Congress.
Just like what happened with healthcare, threatening to hurt the American people if Congress refuses to pass a bill that only a small minority of extremists support, won't work, of course.
2
America has absorbed all sorts of immigrants - some who later turned dangerous. The Dreamers, for all practical purposes, are culturally American in their behavior and their loyalty to America. They are contributing members of the American society. There is no sane reason not to embrace them other than bureaucratic.
Congress should find a way to naturalize them as citizens.
Congress should find a way to naturalize them as citizens.
3
On the big screen and small, a request for "Papers", was a clear sign that the setting was a totalitarian regime.
Will this soon, or has it already, become cinematic shorthand for the US?
Will this soon, or has it already, become cinematic shorthand for the US?
ILL GOTTEN GAINS is also a long standing legal concept.
So my father robs a bank. Doesn't get caught right away. But he gives me half the cash. Which I spend on a new house and all kinds of stuff. When dad gets caught, I'm oppressed because they made me give back the ill gotten gains?
I'm a realist, you were brought here against your will, unknowingly, and built a life. But it was based on an illegal act. I'm OK with that small percentage of people staying.
HOWEVER, there are are constraints.
1) Parents are deported.
2) Parents do not get ANY form of US benefit /SS/Etc. If they have a 401K or pension, fine. Send it to the country they live in now.
3) Parents are never granted citizenship and must leave the country. Where do they go? I don't know. Not a problem I created. Not my problem to cleanup. Consideration for other that may be thinking of illegally coming into the US.
So my father robs a bank. Doesn't get caught right away. But he gives me half the cash. Which I spend on a new house and all kinds of stuff. When dad gets caught, I'm oppressed because they made me give back the ill gotten gains?
I'm a realist, you were brought here against your will, unknowingly, and built a life. But it was based on an illegal act. I'm OK with that small percentage of people staying.
HOWEVER, there are are constraints.
1) Parents are deported.
2) Parents do not get ANY form of US benefit /SS/Etc. If they have a 401K or pension, fine. Send it to the country they live in now.
3) Parents are never granted citizenship and must leave the country. Where do they go? I don't know. Not a problem I created. Not my problem to cleanup. Consideration for other that may be thinking of illegally coming into the US.
18
The dreamers must go too. They came here mostly as teenagers. The average dreamer is about 25 years old! they are not babies.
The only way to stop illegal aliens from smuggling their kids into the US is to ENSURE those kids derive NO benefits from being smuggled here, and are deported ASAP.
The only way to stop illegal aliens from smuggling their kids into the US is to ENSURE those kids derive NO benefits from being smuggled here, and are deported ASAP.
1
The picture of Trump praying with his cronies over DACA decisions is deplorable.
Phony, inhumane, cruel. In the name of God?
Are you up there, Lord? Do something about sending Donald Trump out of the White House! Now that's a prayer!
Phony, inhumane, cruel. In the name of God?
Are you up there, Lord? Do something about sending Donald Trump out of the White House! Now that's a prayer!
6
Trump taking a prayer like pose is nothing but a huge display for cameras.
Does anyone think that man humbly reads religious/devotional texts and prays when in private?
Does anyone think that man humbly reads religious/devotional texts and prays when in private?
1
Leaders don't look for 'ways out of situations.' They look for directions that we need to go.
1
Trump has kicked the decision to Congress because he is too scared of alienating his base to do the right thing. Unfortunately, we cannot count on Republicans in Congress to do the right thing because they have shown themselves to be even greater cowards than Trump. Fully aware of the damage this reality show "president" is doing to our values, our ethics, our morality, our environment, our economy, our national security and our international standing, they sit by and do nothing to stop the wrecking ball. Bar a few honorable GOP senators like McCain, I have nothing but contempt for most of them.
3
No, iis because the United States is not supposed to be governed by executive orders. It's the job of Congess to fix the problem. That's what the rule of law requires. We cannot have governance by "rule of whim," and that's what DACA exemplifies... It teaches that disregard for the rule of law may pay quite well...
7
Shortly after pardoning Joe Arpaio, he breaks our country's contract with the Dreamers. So, if you're a racist, it's ok to break the law, but if you're brown, it's not ok for you if your parents broke the law by bringing you in the country illegally. Legally, it seems inconsistent, but at another level, it's unfortunately frighteningly consistent. The racist message is loud and clear and his base is purring in delight (while their wages are stagnant, their environment gets polluted, and Trump's Goldman Sachs buddies keep fleecing them).
7
The expulsion of children and young people brought to the United States by parents seeking a better life will be the United States' 21st century "Trail of Tears' that "removed" by internal exile the Cherokee people from their homelands in the 19th century. It follows the 19th century "Chinese Exclusion Act" and the 20th century Japanese Internment during WW II as shameful examples of nativist fears, resentments, and hatred of people of different skin shades.
I am ashamed of the people who my fellow Americans have elected to represent them in Congress. The expulsion of 800,000 young people is a man made tragedy created by Congress.
Have they no shame!
I am ashamed of the people who my fellow Americans have elected to represent them in Congress. The expulsion of 800,000 young people is a man made tragedy created by Congress.
Have they no shame!
3
Too bad Obama gave these people unrealistic expectations with a policy that is consideered unconstitutional and not likely to survive court challeges.
It's sad for the dreamers but they and their criminal parents need to obey the law just as American citizens must. All need to return to their home countries and apply legally if the want to return to the US.
It's ridiculous that some people including Paul Ryan are suggesting that US immigration policy be determined by what illegal aliens want.
It's sad for the dreamers but they and their criminal parents need to obey the law just as American citizens must. All need to return to their home countries and apply legally if the want to return to the US.
It's ridiculous that some people including Paul Ryan are suggesting that US immigration policy be determined by what illegal aliens want.
22
We disregarded our own laws for decades. The base and politicians of both parties were complicit in that.
Now we have a situation which is illegal under the laws we ignored for so long. That is no surprise.
Whatever we do now is a change. If we enforce what we did not enforce before, that too is a change.
We need to decide together what change we want to make. Maybe changes are needed. Maybe big changes. That is however a decision, not just passive "enforce the law."
Who should suffer from the changes we make? Somebody is going to suffer something, because all laws are a trade off. There are no feel good free shots that make everybody happy.
It seems that the Dreamers we've identified are the least appropriate victims of change. They are kids, helpless, did nothing themselves, and are well placed to contribute to our joint future. Harming them is nuts, besides being a really nasty thing to do.
Now we have a situation which is illegal under the laws we ignored for so long. That is no surprise.
Whatever we do now is a change. If we enforce what we did not enforce before, that too is a change.
We need to decide together what change we want to make. Maybe changes are needed. Maybe big changes. That is however a decision, not just passive "enforce the law."
Who should suffer from the changes we make? Somebody is going to suffer something, because all laws are a trade off. There are no feel good free shots that make everybody happy.
It seems that the Dreamers we've identified are the least appropriate victims of change. They are kids, helpless, did nothing themselves, and are well placed to contribute to our joint future. Harming them is nuts, besides being a really nasty thing to do.
5
It would be wise for the Dreamers to return to their country of origin if President Trump rescinds the DACA program. This was a program implemented by liberal President Obama and should never been put into place. The parents broke the law by coming here illegally while many immigrants followed the legal path to immigration. They should have thought of the consequences placed upon their children. The children should not be allowed to continue breaking the law but should return to their home countries and apply for citizenship legally. We have put laws in place for a reason. Why should illegal immigrants break in line while those who want to come here wait patiently and do it the right way which is the legal way.
12
It is unbelieveable that 35% or so of our citizens are calling the shots for the rest of the country. Trump could have easily left this issue alone, but, he keeps playing to his mindless base at the expense of his own political survival and the best interests of this country.
2
Today I fear the Gop will transition itself from the party of Lincoln to the party of David Duke,Jeff Sessions and Steve King. From a party that embraced inclusion to a party that aims to exclude hundreds of thousands young "Americans ", who have lived here all, or most of, their lives. The Republicans in Congress will now be faced with a vital decision- stand up for what is clearly the right thing to do by allowing DACA to continue, or be exposed as the party of xenophobia,bigotry, and apartheid. I am not confident that the GOP will ensure that the American Dream will endure for the 800,000 Dreamers.
How I do wish I shared your confidence, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
Janice- I actually said I am not confident that the GOP will restore DACa and protect the 800,000 Dreamers and their families. But thank you for your thoughtful comment.
Well drats, Stephen! We're in the same boat!
How about a compromise: If the parents in America illegally leave and promise never to return until they can do so without violating America's laws, the kids can stay, as long as they have a guardian legally in the country.
4
Obama proposed DAPA or amnesty for the parents. Anything short of open borders and full amnesty will simply not be enough for these people. This is why DACA should be repealed.
5
What about American kids who go to college; no talk of them for the last many years; they are step children in their own country as the nation focuses on DACA and illegal immigration.
Non stop advertisement for DACA on CNN.
Our kids had crowded schools for decades; needed to make room for special education and funds for non English speakers.
We have cared for DACAs, educated them, now they should go back to their own countries and fix their societies so that their countries are livable and take their illegal parents with them.
Reagan and Congress promised us that this mess would not occur again.
Congress needs to do their job.
Non stop advertisement for DACA on CNN.
Our kids had crowded schools for decades; needed to make room for special education and funds for non English speakers.
We have cared for DACAs, educated them, now they should go back to their own countries and fix their societies so that their countries are livable and take their illegal parents with them.
Reagan and Congress promised us that this mess would not occur again.
Congress needs to do their job.
19
The only reason so many are so strident on immigration is as immigrants once themselves, or their families, they're already here. Don't be selfish.
1
So many campaign promises broken! It is telling that this is one he wants to keep.
The most painful state of being is remembering the future, particularly the one you'll never have.
Soren Kierkegaard
This is what the DACA Dreamers face. I wish I could believe that the advocates for destroying DACA were concerned about its Constitutionality and not intent on destroying every vestige of Obama's presidency still remaining. Is our Constitution not flexible enough for mercy? Not much of a Constitution, then, is it? Remember this day, fellow citizens, as North Korea's drumbeats get stronger. We will get what we deserve.
Soren Kierkegaard
This is what the DACA Dreamers face. I wish I could believe that the advocates for destroying DACA were concerned about its Constitutionality and not intent on destroying every vestige of Obama's presidency still remaining. Is our Constitution not flexible enough for mercy? Not much of a Constitution, then, is it? Remember this day, fellow citizens, as North Korea's drumbeats get stronger. We will get what we deserve.
1
While I never agree with Trump about anything, it would be great if Congress would take this out of the Executive Branch's hands.
2
I've taught many children in San Diego. One thing I can say uncategorically, is how hard these children work to learn English and succeed in school. Yes, I've had students who were unmotivated, but no more in one ethnic group than in another. It is not their fault and cruel to consider throwing them out while washing our hands of any guilt or concern. Imagine being 18 and tossed out of the only country you have ever known often with English being your only language?
Presidential executive orders are worthless. They are not the law and at the whim of whichever person is elected next. Congress should have tackled immigration reform decades ago.. BUT, no, they are too busy worrying about the other party getting election votes and credit... Nothing gets done and all of us pay the consequences. Some loud mouth tweeter says absolutely nothing but whatever hyperbole suits his narrow minded focus on those who idolize him... decides to rescind and put it all on Congress for the next six months.. I don't know about you, but Congress is so dysfunctional, oppostitional, and next election oriented that all they do is blame everyone else. No need to solve problems, the base is all we need... I am sorry but the left and right extremists have taken over and do nothing but lie, exaggerate and fear monger.. Meanwhile, children who will give more to this country than many native borned become part of cruel pawns to those who wnat nothing more than to win the next election.
Presidential executive orders are worthless. They are not the law and at the whim of whichever person is elected next. Congress should have tackled immigration reform decades ago.. BUT, no, they are too busy worrying about the other party getting election votes and credit... Nothing gets done and all of us pay the consequences. Some loud mouth tweeter says absolutely nothing but whatever hyperbole suits his narrow minded focus on those who idolize him... decides to rescind and put it all on Congress for the next six months.. I don't know about you, but Congress is so dysfunctional, oppostitional, and next election oriented that all they do is blame everyone else. No need to solve problems, the base is all we need... I am sorry but the left and right extremists have taken over and do nothing but lie, exaggerate and fear monger.. Meanwhile, children who will give more to this country than many native borned become part of cruel pawns to those who wnat nothing more than to win the next election.
66
You sink your argument, Ms. Lilleeng, with the opening sentence of your second paragraph:
"...Presidential executive orders are worthless...."
With those five word, you sum up the failures of the Obama administration on the subject of immigration.
The Constitution holds that it is Congress that makes the law, and it is that holding that essentially makes the executive order meaningless....An executive order can be "un-ordered".
I am surprised that the liberal is so up in arms with Trump for throwing this whole issue back to the Congress, and putting on it a significant level of urgency in coming up with a solution.
It was a tactic that Obama could have used, but he did not, and we continue to have a severely broken immigration policy brought about by the continuing failures of successive administrations to enforce the laws of the land.
"...Presidential executive orders are worthless...."
With those five word, you sum up the failures of the Obama administration on the subject of immigration.
The Constitution holds that it is Congress that makes the law, and it is that holding that essentially makes the executive order meaningless....An executive order can be "un-ordered".
I am surprised that the liberal is so up in arms with Trump for throwing this whole issue back to the Congress, and putting on it a significant level of urgency in coming up with a solution.
It was a tactic that Obama could have used, but he did not, and we continue to have a severely broken immigration policy brought about by the continuing failures of successive administrations to enforce the laws of the land.
2
Concerning Dreamers and other "illegal" immigrants, I am always concerned about how much is said about what great individuals they are - honest, reliable, hardworking. Yet nowhere do I see any discussion about how their presence affects the "legal" immigrants who have come in to our country and the thousands who are waiting to do so, and have complied with all our immigration laws. How are the "legals" to be convinced that all "illegals" will go "to the head of the line" afteer entering America without authority? The U.S. admits over 1 million "legal" immigrants every year and has been doing so for over a hundred years - more than any other country in the world. Yet, now we must tell them that the "nice, hardworking, honest and reliable" border jumpers will be admitted ahead of them, no matter how long they have been waiting.. How will that be done, America? That is not what we are about, folks. That is not what we do or how we have done it in the past. I am sure that the Dreamers are nice, reliable people - everybody likes them - but why authorize them to "jump the line"? I do not understand what is happening........
13
Where's your vitriol for the Americans that hired the Dreamers' parents? Shall we write and enforce laws to punish those who have been providing the paychecks to your despised border jumpers?
Why don't you tell me, PogoWasRight, that those ranch, farm, hotel, and meat-packing plant owners are "nice, hardworking, honest and reliable" and do not deserve going to jail for funding all these decades of migration since Reagan signed the 1986 "amnesty" legislation.
Dreamers were toted here AS CHILDREN, taught to love America, and they adopted America. They are Our pride.
Don't think for one minute, PogoWasRight, that we are going to forget the American adults, Republicans by the way, who exploited many of these children and all of their parents in their labor camps. Try to back out of Dreamers Act, and it will be Republicans' shame. Your choice, PogoWasRight.
Why don't you tell me, PogoWasRight, that those ranch, farm, hotel, and meat-packing plant owners are "nice, hardworking, honest and reliable" and do not deserve going to jail for funding all these decades of migration since Reagan signed the 1986 "amnesty" legislation.
Dreamers were toted here AS CHILDREN, taught to love America, and they adopted America. They are Our pride.
Don't think for one minute, PogoWasRight, that we are going to forget the American adults, Republicans by the way, who exploited many of these children and all of their parents in their labor camps. Try to back out of Dreamers Act, and it will be Republicans' shame. Your choice, PogoWasRight.
1
Well said, Pogo... We are either a Republic governed by the rule of law or just a place where the rules are really nothing more than personal opinions...
2
My understanding is that the demographics of the DACA population reveal an average age of 22, with the oldest cohort between 30-36. So more than half of the DACA population are not children in any sense of the word.
How do you justify maintaining and offering citizenship to this group while defending the rights of the tens of thousands actually in the process who have paid, struggled, worked, and waited to do it the right way?
Letting the DACA group stay, or jump the line, is an injustice to those who followed the process. Isn't it?
WR
How do you justify maintaining and offering citizenship to this group while defending the rights of the tens of thousands actually in the process who have paid, struggled, worked, and waited to do it the right way?
Letting the DACA group stay, or jump the line, is an injustice to those who followed the process. Isn't it?
WR
13
Yea. Trump has a big heart for DACA kids. He "has kids" and so looks compassionately on these.
But then he passes the buck on treating them fairly to Congress.
I thought he was the one who campaigned on being the only one who could get things done in Washington - the only one, America's only hope.
Well I don't remember on gaff, one mistake, one error, one international incident, one firing, one resignation, one opposing legal judgment, one investigation, one blatant lie that the buck has ever stopped at his desk.
It's always somebody else's fault - the guy who leaked the phone call or the telling of state secrets to foreign enemies, the Democrats or the Establishment Republicans or the most conservative Republicans - or the most liberal - John McCain or Paul Ryan, Hillary or Yates or Comey or Rosenstein or if none of those fit, there's always, always "the enemy of the people", the free press.
I always thought it was considered manly and powerful to admit mistakes, take responsibility for the mistakes of the people working for you, fix the mistakes and "carry on", head high.
But trump is a bully and that means he's a coward and his yellow stripe shows clearly for all to see when the going gets tough - and he gets going -out of the way.
But then he passes the buck on treating them fairly to Congress.
I thought he was the one who campaigned on being the only one who could get things done in Washington - the only one, America's only hope.
Well I don't remember on gaff, one mistake, one error, one international incident, one firing, one resignation, one opposing legal judgment, one investigation, one blatant lie that the buck has ever stopped at his desk.
It's always somebody else's fault - the guy who leaked the phone call or the telling of state secrets to foreign enemies, the Democrats or the Establishment Republicans or the most conservative Republicans - or the most liberal - John McCain or Paul Ryan, Hillary or Yates or Comey or Rosenstein or if none of those fit, there's always, always "the enemy of the people", the free press.
I always thought it was considered manly and powerful to admit mistakes, take responsibility for the mistakes of the people working for you, fix the mistakes and "carry on", head high.
But trump is a bully and that means he's a coward and his yellow stripe shows clearly for all to see when the going gets tough - and he gets going -out of the way.
1
Instead of a dream, my country is becoming a nightmare.
4
Neither heartless nor attempts to efface the legacy of a predecessor -- a Nobel laureate -- are the basis of sound policy on immigration or any other matter.
Shame on Trump, once again, for de-humanizing and un-Amrericaning our Republic.
Shame on Trump, once again, for de-humanizing and un-Amrericaning our Republic.
1
What do 'Dreamers' do now? ... Probably pack their their bags and prepare for the worst.
This may not sound optimistic, but then after seeing Donald Trump's hardline approach to dragging undocumented immigrants from the streets and their beds, there's every cause for alarm.
In addition to that, the fact that this DACA program was established by his predecessor is just one more reason why he will more than likely see it abrogated.
This will be America's loss.
We're getting further and further away from being great again.
This may not sound optimistic, but then after seeing Donald Trump's hardline approach to dragging undocumented immigrants from the streets and their beds, there's every cause for alarm.
In addition to that, the fact that this DACA program was established by his predecessor is just one more reason why he will more than likely see it abrogated.
This will be America's loss.
We're getting further and further away from being great again.
78
This is not America's loss. Respect for the law is America's gain, especially in times like these.
2
@paul
Here's a idea.
Google 'THE NEW COLOSSUS', that poem by Emma Lazarus on the Statue of Liberty.
And maybe visit it the next time you're in New York.
Here's a idea.
Google 'THE NEW COLOSSUS', that poem by Emma Lazarus on the Statue of Liberty.
And maybe visit it the next time you're in New York.
1
The Lazarus poem is just a poem. It's not public policy.
4
The bold move to do justice to DACA is to offer citizenship to all of them....and thank the countries they came from for their contribution. Cruelty 'gratis', a specialty of our vulgar bully at the helm, must not be allowed to make inroads in the lives of these youngsters.
56
Get congress to do so and I might have little to no problem with it. Get the president to defy the constitution and I oppose it greatly.
1
Trump threw it to the Congress because he is a coward. Ask yourself why he had Jeff Sessions make the announcement. Like most bullies, he's a coward.
And his 6-month reprieve is no reprieve at all for the majority of DACA children. For more than half their status will have lapsed within the 6 months. Those with legal, tax-paying jobs will lose them. Many in college with student loans will have no way to continue, and losing their position in school, no way to pay the loans that come due when they leave school.
It's the height of cruelty. Imagine if it were your child.
And his 6-month reprieve is no reprieve at all for the majority of DACA children. For more than half their status will have lapsed within the 6 months. Those with legal, tax-paying jobs will lose them. Many in college with student loans will have no way to continue, and losing their position in school, no way to pay the loans that come due when they leave school.
It's the height of cruelty. Imagine if it were your child.
1
Prepare for the “Brain Drain” as current DACA protected scholars and professionals find that other nations are willing to welcome them with open arms. Of course, the followers of Britebart, and all those other ultra-right wing organizations will claim that those jobs and degrees now belong to them.
2
The Breitbart organization's--if you can call it that-- goal is to destroy the U.S. government and install a Fourth Reich.
Of course yeah, that's the ticket, and this time it will work.
BTW
breit = wide
bart = beard
Of course yeah, that's the ticket, and this time it will work.
BTW
breit = wide
bart = beard
1
We need new immigration laws now, that address the realities of why we have so much illegal entry. Let's allow people to come and legally work, with workplace protections. In turn, these people all pay taxes and follow the laws, including limits on their stay in our country until they do what's needed to become legal. It is reasonable to limit entry and to disallow illegal immigration. But first we must have a humane way to deal with children and families who are already here.
2
If illegals don't feel confident in our government, good. They should do the right right thing and go home. The American public was promised our immigration laws would finally be enforced. It's about time to stop promising things to illegals and keep the promises made to the American public. Any pol who thinks otherwise has no business attempting to represent the American public.
17
Uh ... any poll proving that a majority doesn't share your opinion "has no business attempting to represent the American public" ... ?
Fact is, ALL polls show that a majority doesn't share your opinion on this.
That's why Orrin Hatch has proposed DACA, together with a Dem Senator, back in 2001 already.
The only way to get major reform done in a democracy, on ALL major issues, is in a bipartisan way.
DACA is a bipartisan solution for 1 million Americans who never committed any crime, not even entering the country illegally (it's not illegal for a child to obey its parents, remember?).
It is included in every major bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill out there.
So I'm sorry, but you may dream of a dictatorship where the minority decides, but the Constitution makes that impossible.
In the meanwhile, it's not by threatening to get rid of bipartisan measures that a majority supports that somehow a US president will be able force a constitutionally independent Congress to pass partisan immigration reform that nobody supports ... .
He already tried to do the same thing on healthcare, and the result was that he ended up with no bill at all.
If he continues to use the same, incompetent strategy, he'll end his first term with only tweets as achievements ... and it will be his fault alone, not that of Congress.
Fact is, ALL polls show that a majority doesn't share your opinion on this.
That's why Orrin Hatch has proposed DACA, together with a Dem Senator, back in 2001 already.
The only way to get major reform done in a democracy, on ALL major issues, is in a bipartisan way.
DACA is a bipartisan solution for 1 million Americans who never committed any crime, not even entering the country illegally (it's not illegal for a child to obey its parents, remember?).
It is included in every major bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill out there.
So I'm sorry, but you may dream of a dictatorship where the minority decides, but the Constitution makes that impossible.
In the meanwhile, it's not by threatening to get rid of bipartisan measures that a majority supports that somehow a US president will be able force a constitutionally independent Congress to pass partisan immigration reform that nobody supports ... .
He already tried to do the same thing on healthcare, and the result was that he ended up with no bill at all.
If he continues to use the same, incompetent strategy, he'll end his first term with only tweets as achievements ... and it will be his fault alone, not that of Congress.
1
Americans do not want yet more migration from Mexico. The constitution does not require open borders.
3
Everyone writes that being required to return to the country you are a citizen of is cruelty. Let's not forget the parents left their country for a place where they did not know the culture or speak the language (here) in the first place. For all those purporting dreamers do not know the culture or language of their home countries, have you ever met any immigrant family in America who did not primarily speak their mother tongue to their children in the home? I haven't.
16
One must wonder about the essential character of Donald Trump. He dramatically tells us that he loves kids, and then proclaims that 800,000 innocent kids must be shipped back to wherever they came from.
Facts you decide:
1. Either he loves kids and has compassion or the is not telling the truth
2. He wants to kick this can down the road to Congress to let them take the blame, knowing that his "hard right" bunch will kill the "right thing".
Daily, it becomes more apparent that this President does not have the character strength of will to do the will of the American people. He is an ideologue.
Daily we learn that he does not tell the truth. His oratory is great but filled with lies.
Daily he does not keep his promises, often because his promises change at will.
Daily he seems to take some psychological pleasure in passing edicts and statements that go against the wishes of the majority of Americans. Hi philosophy of leadership is reminiscent of Caligula of Rome, or Mussolini at his worst...a fascism tempered only by dynamic oratory that inflames violent people and is inevitably filled with half truths or outright lies.
Trump no doubt will get us into a war, if for no other reason, to bolster himself in the polls.
Trump is systematically dividing the Republican party, and many already have chosen to ignore him into irrelevance. The Military, and administrative agencies already discount, delay, and try to ignore Trump.. to do otherwise seems to be treason.
Facts you decide:
1. Either he loves kids and has compassion or the is not telling the truth
2. He wants to kick this can down the road to Congress to let them take the blame, knowing that his "hard right" bunch will kill the "right thing".
Daily, it becomes more apparent that this President does not have the character strength of will to do the will of the American people. He is an ideologue.
Daily we learn that he does not tell the truth. His oratory is great but filled with lies.
Daily he does not keep his promises, often because his promises change at will.
Daily he seems to take some psychological pleasure in passing edicts and statements that go against the wishes of the majority of Americans. Hi philosophy of leadership is reminiscent of Caligula of Rome, or Mussolini at his worst...a fascism tempered only by dynamic oratory that inflames violent people and is inevitably filled with half truths or outright lies.
Trump no doubt will get us into a war, if for no other reason, to bolster himself in the polls.
Trump is systematically dividing the Republican party, and many already have chosen to ignore him into irrelevance. The Military, and administrative agencies already discount, delay, and try to ignore Trump.. to do otherwise seems to be treason.
7
The very absurdity of this tangle should bring some relief to Dreamers.
A vocal minority who hate foreigners made the specious claim that DACA was an illegal deferral of law enforcement, and they persuaded several states to file suit against Trump. Now, Trump is deferring law enforcement in order to allow Congress to resolve the matter.
A vocal minority who hate foreigners made the specious claim that DACA was an illegal deferral of law enforcement, and they persuaded several states to file suit against Trump. Now, Trump is deferring law enforcement in order to allow Congress to resolve the matter.
2
I would have been a DACA or one can say was to a degree a DACA recipient back in the early 70s. brought here by no choice of my own, as a 4 year child. I am now a very productive, college educated, community giving, manager for a large company in the medical field. I am an "n" of 1, however I know of many like myself. I also know of many that can have the same opportunity.
We were given an opportunity as children, to become legal members of the American Society, and for this I am very thankful. I am confident that if I would of had this (my DACA of the 70s) taken away, that my risks of suffrage and tribulation would have significantly increased. By way of what would have been my immediate environment, poverty, lack of opportunity for education or work, my risk of becoming a criminal element of society would have been at high risk as well. I am thankful, for what occurred to me by no choice of my own. Today, I have a choice. I choose human morality, love, and care for children and families. I expect our President and our congressmen and women will choose the same.
We were given an opportunity as children, to become legal members of the American Society, and for this I am very thankful. I am confident that if I would of had this (my DACA of the 70s) taken away, that my risks of suffrage and tribulation would have significantly increased. By way of what would have been my immediate environment, poverty, lack of opportunity for education or work, my risk of becoming a criminal element of society would have been at high risk as well. I am thankful, for what occurred to me by no choice of my own. Today, I have a choice. I choose human morality, love, and care for children and families. I expect our President and our congressmen and women will choose the same.
9
It is a cruel thing to do, but it is Congress' job to fix it. Trump is correct to throw it to the legislative branch to fix. They make the laws, let them fix them also. Any Dreamer deported is the result of Congressional decisions.
50
David, while many (even liberals like me) have agreed that DACA was of questionable legality, and I don't disagree it is up to Congress to fix, to say "Any Dreamer deported is the result of Congressional decision" is both inaccurate and playing into exactly the con Trump is running. He had the option to continue the program and defend it in Court. He chose not to, and in fact revels in a hardline immigration policy. This is very much because of Donald Trump. He lacks the decency and compassion essential to his current job. He is a disgrace to this nation. Don't push that off to Congress.
this is a game of hot potato.........and notice our tough guy president
avoided the microphone and is hiding behind his Gold drapes....and Sessions
took pleasure in the statement....but could not manage a question from the press...
another wimp.....Hurrah....he's finally in charge of the school yard.
the most laughable thing here is how both these thugs pretend to love the
Law............UGH!
avoided the microphone and is hiding behind his Gold drapes....and Sessions
took pleasure in the statement....but could not manage a question from the press...
another wimp.....Hurrah....he's finally in charge of the school yard.
the most laughable thing here is how both these thugs pretend to love the
Law............UGH!
1
So you would leave 800,000 human beings at the mercy of "it's not my fault"?
Truly, how do you sleep at night? Trump is a monster, and those who support him in this are no better than those in Germany in the 1930s. I weep for my country-- the same one my family journeyed to 150+ years ago without any papers at all . . .
Truly, how do you sleep at night? Trump is a monster, and those who support him in this are no better than those in Germany in the 1930s. I weep for my country-- the same one my family journeyed to 150+ years ago without any papers at all . . .
2
President Obama's DACA Program was illegal on its face as it essentially legalized a whole class of individuals in contravention of statute. Problem is that, as much as the way in which it was done was illegal, its intent was exactly correct. Regardless of legalities, those brought here as children and raised and educated in America ARE Americans, whether we acknowledge it or not. It would be grossly unjust to deport fellow Americans to lands of which they know nothing and may not even speak the language. Simple justice requires us to acknowledge them as our fellows and to legalize them.
Again, Obama's action legitimizing them was unconstitutional, but Congress is complicit in this as well, because, knowing that justice requires the legaliztion of these individuals, it has balked and refused to act to do so.
President Trump is entirely correct to end DACA, with the provisos that no actions shall take place for 6 months to a year in order to allow Congress to act, that none of the information DACA individuals had provided to the government will ever be used against them, and that, concurrent with the order ending DACA, the President submits a bill to Congress to resolve the problem without deportations.
Again, Obama's action legitimizing them was unconstitutional, but Congress is complicit in this as well, because, knowing that justice requires the legaliztion of these individuals, it has balked and refused to act to do so.
President Trump is entirely correct to end DACA, with the provisos that no actions shall take place for 6 months to a year in order to allow Congress to act, that none of the information DACA individuals had provided to the government will ever be used against them, and that, concurrent with the order ending DACA, the President submits a bill to Congress to resolve the problem without deportations.
4
They were brought by their parents to a country whose language and culture they did not know. They most likely spoke their native language at home. If they are sent back, they will be no worse off than when they arrived.
2
From a political standpoint, ending DACA is a stupid policy for Republicans: even though Secretary of State Tillerson says the president speaks for himself, the party is already tied to Trump's ban on Muslim immigration, his pardon of a racist sheriff, and his despicable post-Charlottesville message. How much damage will Republicans allow their president to do to our nation?
12
Giving a six month grace period is as good as ending the DACA program. With this grace period, will Congress act now? Congress has a responsibility to act immediately and save the "Dreamers".
The problem of the "Dreamers" is a human problem. Those in this program, came into this country as children. With no proper home and no where to go, we provided them refuge. Based on their history here, the "Dreamers" should have been extended a legal process to seek a form of permanent residency in this country. As usual, politics has stood in their way. Now, to brand them as illegals and not to find a solution will be a tragedy and a inhuman act. People like Mr. Trump, Jeff Sessions, Stephen Miller and those numerous attorneys general should know better.
All what is needed is some love, compassion and understanding.
The problem of the "Dreamers" is a human problem. Those in this program, came into this country as children. With no proper home and no where to go, we provided them refuge. Based on their history here, the "Dreamers" should have been extended a legal process to seek a form of permanent residency in this country. As usual, politics has stood in their way. Now, to brand them as illegals and not to find a solution will be a tragedy and a inhuman act. People like Mr. Trump, Jeff Sessions, Stephen Miller and those numerous attorneys general should know better.
All what is needed is some love, compassion and understanding.
4
I am not a Trump supporter. I do support DACA and want to see the 800,000 "dreamers" achieve legal status and citizenship after qualifying legally. But, I think Trump makes a point here by throwing this to Congress where immigration reform needs to be debated and passed. My suggestion is to extend DACA while keeping the program open to new applicants until Congress does rule - if ever. A timeline of 6 months is arbitrary and most likely impossible to meet now and in the near term. Our national reputation is in tatters abroad, we do not need to add the spectacle of penalizing young people who are and continue to be a valuable resource on the basis of their parents' illegal entry abetted with a wink and a nod by our politicians and business leaders.
5
It's a question of separation of powers. DACA went beyond mere prosecutorial discretion to prioritize cases for enforcement. It came with an application process and a work permit, and is widely viewed by the public as an immigration benefit for which one applies. Creating a new category of immigration benefit is within the purview of Congress, not the Executive Branch. The program also had the unintended effect of causing families from Central America to send unaccompanied teens to the U.S. via smugglers en masse, in the belief that they would ultimately be allowed to stay in the United States. Revision of the immigration laws should be done the right way, via legislation.
17
Young, old, illegal is illegal. When you wait years and years to be admitted, when you follow the law, it's the utmost kind of arrogance to demand to stay as your parents committed a crime by overstaying their visa or sneaking in the country. Go home. Then dream of coming here legally.
6
I agree with your legal analysis. The problem then becomes what to do about it. And Trump's solution is as good as deporting these kids. Congress is too dysfunctional to fix this, and he knows that. He knows the result, and he will do it anyway. Sometimes it is our willingness bend the rules in the face of cruelty that define who and what we are. And what Trump is....well, we all know that.
1
The 800,000 will not be standing alone.
9
What should DREAMers do?
Exactly what their parents should have done a minimum of 18 years ago.
Return to the home nation. Stand in line. Applying for an immigration visa. Move back to the United States. And never ever vote for a Democrat.
Face facts DREAMers. Your parents brought you here illegally because a democrat lied to themand said that America welcomed immigrants and legal status didn't matters (Jimmy Carter). A Democrat lied to you and told you that you could stay because your status didn't matterand he was going to 'normalize'you (Barack Obama). As long as you stay here in your current status you are a political pawn for the Democrats to exploit.
The Republicans have told you the truth, even when you didn't want to hear it.
America love legal immigrants. American will welcome you home, once you are legal.
Exactly what their parents should have done a minimum of 18 years ago.
Return to the home nation. Stand in line. Applying for an immigration visa. Move back to the United States. And never ever vote for a Democrat.
Face facts DREAMers. Your parents brought you here illegally because a democrat lied to themand said that America welcomed immigrants and legal status didn't matters (Jimmy Carter). A Democrat lied to you and told you that you could stay because your status didn't matterand he was going to 'normalize'you (Barack Obama). As long as you stay here in your current status you are a political pawn for the Democrats to exploit.
The Republicans have told you the truth, even when you didn't want to hear it.
America love legal immigrants. American will welcome you home, once you are legal.
24
The dems didn't lie. The GOP as usual won't allow this country to keep its word about anything.
3
You advise "Never ever vote for a Democrat?" And as a Republican you're hanging your hat on truth-telling? I don't know where to begin. "Orwellian" seems inadequate to describe your cynical attempt to whitewash GOP cruelty.
Let's start with Trump's reversal in his original position -- he said he'd end DACA, but now he's only pitching this hot potato to the GOP-led Congress. Why? Because he has to throw some red meat to his base, but he also knows he'd be crucified if he just deported DACA people.
Paul Ryan has recommended against ending DACA, reversing his previous position. Why? Because he also knows it is the height of cruelty to end it, and it is politically better to stand on the sidelines and criticize Obama for implementing it via E.O. Now Trump has exposed Ryan and the rest of the GOP as cruel, petty obstructionists.
Republican apologists no longer argue about the merits of the policy. They focus instead on the legality of implementing its implementation. Why?—because all the data says that DACA people are law abiding, hard-working, tax-paying contributors worthy of their place in our society.
Obama proposed DACA in legislation. The GOP blocked it, so Obama found a way to treat the DACA people justly and fairly, truthfully describing it at the time as temporary. Your characterization is beyond dishonest.
The GOP, well established now as the Party of Liars, is now also the Party of Cruelty.
Let's start with Trump's reversal in his original position -- he said he'd end DACA, but now he's only pitching this hot potato to the GOP-led Congress. Why? Because he has to throw some red meat to his base, but he also knows he'd be crucified if he just deported DACA people.
Paul Ryan has recommended against ending DACA, reversing his previous position. Why? Because he also knows it is the height of cruelty to end it, and it is politically better to stand on the sidelines and criticize Obama for implementing it via E.O. Now Trump has exposed Ryan and the rest of the GOP as cruel, petty obstructionists.
Republican apologists no longer argue about the merits of the policy. They focus instead on the legality of implementing its implementation. Why?—because all the data says that DACA people are law abiding, hard-working, tax-paying contributors worthy of their place in our society.
Obama proposed DACA in legislation. The GOP blocked it, so Obama found a way to treat the DACA people justly and fairly, truthfully describing it at the time as temporary. Your characterization is beyond dishonest.
The GOP, well established now as the Party of Liars, is now also the Party of Cruelty.
2
It was Ronald Reagan who gave amnisty to illegals and said no more. That just encouraged more to come expecting amnisty again. That’s what DREAMers expect now, more of Reagan's perfidy.
1
I would sooner be a "bleeding heart liberal" than be any of the Republicans who have hearts of stone. Christ said "Let the children come to me" but I guess Evangelicals didn't get the memo. Obama tried to do the right thing to help these young people, but the Republicans in Congress refused to cooperate. 800,000 young people who could make contributions to our country, will be exiled to countries they probably have never known.
And this is "Making America Great Again?"
And this is "Making America Great Again?"
29
Please explain how one verse in the Bible should be interpreted to apply to the USA only. Why should the home countries not welcome these exiles?
6
Six months seems like a long time, but this Congress needs six months to decide to decide what to talk about deciding. If Trump thinks the half-witted ideologues in Congress are going to save him by passing legislation that in turn saves dreamers...he's dreaming.
6
This is the point at which the stand against the administration must ultimately be taken, resistance from American citizens, demonstrations in the streets, flooding of congressional offices. The issue is both the ultimate operating principal and principle of what America is and has been and must continue to be: The final landing place of good people with good ambitions and the ability to appreciate what we have here and try to make it better as they try for their own lives and loved ones. Trump's anti immigrant demagoguery is the ultimate insult and attack against what truly makes America great, what made it great in the past and can make it great again.
11
I don't want to be among the people who ignore what is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty and think that only the highly educated and those that can buy their way in should be allowed to stay in the USA, but democracy in the US has always been paid for by citizens serving this country, with many giving up their very lives to keep us free. I hear a lot of talk about how many dreamers are going to be highly productive and a boon to the economy if their fate is favorable, but what I don't hear is much talk about service to this country when talking about their overall population. The debate can easily be settled by having the able bodied perform a mandatory minimum requirement of 3 years of government service in the military, AmeriCorps, or some other approved civilian public service (with no college deferments). It may be their parents crime, but they still jumped in front of someone else trying to get here legally. If it is to much of a hardship, I am sure that many others from strife torn countries would sign up to take their place in about a minute. Those legitimately unable to serve can be adjudicated separately and still be allowed to stay if they meet other requirements. This shouldn't be a partisan issue if our leaders try to be fair to those who are willing to sacrifice a little to obtain legal status and ultimately citizenship.
4
It would be helpful if All able bodied, Black, Brown, and White young people had to serve their country, non-militarily or military, for three years. The benefits would include getting to know and work beside others who are different. Look at it as an investment in the future for everyone, not just the privileged...or White.
14
The idea is to keep hispanics out. Good ideas are not solicited.
1
The time for Congress to act is now, enough of not making decisions, or left up to one person to decide. By allowing a 6 month window, what Trump has done is to put the onus on Congress and through immigration reform legislation make some permutation of DACA actually legal. Clearly that is his intention or he would have ended it immediately. Congress actually needs to do the job they were elected to and paid for. Time to stop taking the easy way out, after 9 years of doing nothing time for Congress to act. So if its important to you write you Congress person and demand they do the job they are paid for.
9
Trio's intent, as always, is to dodge responsibility.
1
While the courts used to be a good solution to unfair treatment by our government, it is very clear that Trump and the republicans intend to damage and eventually control our courts as well. The Supreme Court is a glaring example. The idea of a massive take over of our government is the Trump and Republican's dream. They have taken many of our state governments and their hunger for control appears to have no end. This is a MOB take over.
9
Why refer to this as a "still-young administration," as if time will have any impact on its reckless, abhorrent, mean-spirited, self-serving practices?
15
Cruelty and cowardice. Trump is a cringe-bully. He fawns on the Saudi royals; he gleefully displays his toys (Oval Office and Israeli intelligence) to Russian officials; he refuses to criticize Putin and his manipulation of voter opinion and hacking of election lists; he likes Erdogan, Duterte, and it seems, the tough guy from Malaysia. Anyone else--subject to snarls and insults. That is, he's a cringe-bully.
14
The Dreamers are being vilified by Trump, to appeal to his base. It's the next logical step in Birtherism. And, they aren't " really " white, so who cares what happens to them. Trump is using them for campaigning. Thanks, GOP. Just keep Collaborating. And cowering. You WILL be sorry.
19
And I think you lefties will be sorry.
You should be VERY sorry, since you lost the White House, Senate, House of Representatives, 38 Governorships, 1000 other public offices -- and oh yeah -- SCOTUS for the next generation.
You should be VERY sorry, since you lost the White House, Senate, House of Representatives, 38 Governorships, 1000 other public offices -- and oh yeah -- SCOTUS for the next generation.
2
Hey liberals here at the NYT, it's time for you to ask yourself a question: Are you wiling to trade Trump signing DACA in exchange for funding for his border wall?
DACA is an illegal and an unconstitutional exercise of executive power. Admit it. I know you're not a fan of enforcing laws that go against your moral code and liberal agenda. However, if the price for getting these worthy folks permanent resident status is giving Trump a few billion for his wall, is it worth it?
Everyone cries out for bipartisanship and making compromises. Are you willing to pressure your lawmakers to support border wall funding for a legislative, constitutional DACA? If you're not, you're a hypocrite when you say you want a bipartisan deals and compromises. If you're not willing to compromise, you're no better than the Republicans who were "obstructionist" during BHO's time in office.
Yes, I know you hate Trump. But do you hate giving him a win so much that you'll allow these folks to be subject to deportation?
Think about it.
DACA is an illegal and an unconstitutional exercise of executive power. Admit it. I know you're not a fan of enforcing laws that go against your moral code and liberal agenda. However, if the price for getting these worthy folks permanent resident status is giving Trump a few billion for his wall, is it worth it?
Everyone cries out for bipartisanship and making compromises. Are you willing to pressure your lawmakers to support border wall funding for a legislative, constitutional DACA? If you're not, you're a hypocrite when you say you want a bipartisan deals and compromises. If you're not willing to compromise, you're no better than the Republicans who were "obstructionist" during BHO's time in office.
Yes, I know you hate Trump. But do you hate giving him a win so much that you'll allow these folks to be subject to deportation?
Think about it.
15
In real life, DACA is a bill that Republican Senator Orrin Hatch introduced together with Democrat Dick Durbin in 2001 already.
It's also part of all the bipartisan, comprehensive immigration reform bills that Congress has written until now.
And it's supported by a majority of the American people, liberals and conservatives alike.
Trump now decided to make the EXACT same mistake he already made with HC: instead of engaging in real, tough negotiations with Congress and do his job, he asks Congress to start supporting things the vast majority of the American people reject, and if they refuse (= if they do their job), then he'll destroy the lives of as many people as possible.
After having promised to cover even more Americans than Obamacare, at an even lower price, without cutting Medicaid, once he comes into office Trump flip-flopped and now started fully supporting RINO Ryancare. Only 18% of the American people supported it, so of course, the only result was NO "repeal and replace" bill signed into law at all, AND his poll numbers going down the tubes.
After having promised to build a wall and force Mexico to pay for it, first he does nothing for 8 months and then all of a sudden wants taxpayers to pay for it - an idea that only 18% of the American people support, so OF COURSE Congress will refuse it.
Congress is constitutionally independent from the WH, remember?
And the only way to pass bipartisan compromises, as a president, is to start SUPPORTING them ...
It's also part of all the bipartisan, comprehensive immigration reform bills that Congress has written until now.
And it's supported by a majority of the American people, liberals and conservatives alike.
Trump now decided to make the EXACT same mistake he already made with HC: instead of engaging in real, tough negotiations with Congress and do his job, he asks Congress to start supporting things the vast majority of the American people reject, and if they refuse (= if they do their job), then he'll destroy the lives of as many people as possible.
After having promised to cover even more Americans than Obamacare, at an even lower price, without cutting Medicaid, once he comes into office Trump flip-flopped and now started fully supporting RINO Ryancare. Only 18% of the American people supported it, so of course, the only result was NO "repeal and replace" bill signed into law at all, AND his poll numbers going down the tubes.
After having promised to build a wall and force Mexico to pay for it, first he does nothing for 8 months and then all of a sudden wants taxpayers to pay for it - an idea that only 18% of the American people support, so OF COURSE Congress will refuse it.
Congress is constitutionally independent from the WH, remember?
And the only way to pass bipartisan compromises, as a president, is to start SUPPORTING them ...
3
A wall is beyond stupid. Especially as 40% of those here illegally come via visa overstays. How about requiring e-Verify and prosecuting employers instead. Then you may have yourself a deal.
8
Even if it is an "illegal and unconstitutional exercise of executive power" (like rescinding the 1906 Antiquities Act, but I digress), many members of your party are not willing to process this cruelty that Trump is doing for his base like you. Not everyone in the Republican Party delights in cruelty and immorality.
2
A black mark on the White House.
12
ANOTHER black mark.
With such a vicious bully like Trump at the helm, Dreamers who can should flee to sanctuary states like California, New York and seek protection if need be in the Catholic Churches which have pledged to support you. Other than fleeing to Canada as many here in the Northeast have been doing since this demagogue became via the fluke of the Electoral College, president, I can think of nothing other than next year we the people who support the Dreamers to come out en masse and vote these ignorant Republicans out of office. My hopes and prayers go out to you. Dream on.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
9
Immigration, as people gleefully reminded us during the Arizona SB 1070 controversy, is a federal responsibility. There is no state or church within the United States that can interfere with the federal government exercising its lawful authority over immigration matters.
It's amazing how many people become states rights true believers once the other party controls the White House.
It's amazing how many people become states rights true believers once the other party controls the White House.
7
Dear Lilo:
Have you no clue whatsoever what the Dream Act concerns? Obviously not. It has nothing at all to do with immigration. These folks were brought here as minors. They had no idea what was going on. All most of them knew was growing up as Americans, except they weren't. You can call them mistakes if you wish. What happened as they integrated in American society when they reached adulthood, having done nothing wrong themselves since they were minors, it is up to we the people to decide if these folks who are as productive members of society as anyone born here should be allowed to stay here.
Thus, Attorneys General in California and New York have filed legal docs questioning that act. And no, I am not a States Rights true believer. We have 50 separate DMV's, which makes no sense to me, but I have no problem with 50 separate governments issuing driver's licenses, it's just stupid for all those conservative not consider this an enormous waste of taxpayers money, don't you?
Let me add, when the Florida Supreme Court ruled in Gore's favor, the conservative wing of the US Supreme Court overruled the state of Florida, and Bush won. Did you think that was a violation of States Rights? It all depends on whose ox is gored, doesn't it, and I say that with no pun (gored) intended.
DD
Manhattan
Have you no clue whatsoever what the Dream Act concerns? Obviously not. It has nothing at all to do with immigration. These folks were brought here as minors. They had no idea what was going on. All most of them knew was growing up as Americans, except they weren't. You can call them mistakes if you wish. What happened as they integrated in American society when they reached adulthood, having done nothing wrong themselves since they were minors, it is up to we the people to decide if these folks who are as productive members of society as anyone born here should be allowed to stay here.
Thus, Attorneys General in California and New York have filed legal docs questioning that act. And no, I am not a States Rights true believer. We have 50 separate DMV's, which makes no sense to me, but I have no problem with 50 separate governments issuing driver's licenses, it's just stupid for all those conservative not consider this an enormous waste of taxpayers money, don't you?
Let me add, when the Florida Supreme Court ruled in Gore's favor, the conservative wing of the US Supreme Court overruled the state of Florida, and Bush won. Did you think that was a violation of States Rights? It all depends on whose ox is gored, doesn't it, and I say that with no pun (gored) intended.
DD
Manhattan
I have found that Hispanics who work on my house, around the yard, etc. are invariably efficient, respectful, and fair in their pricing. And my Hispanic students are among the most committed ones I have. A number of them are in the DACA program. Why deprive America of this invaluable resource?
12
So, to summarize, you think illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay because you like having cheap gardeners, who you no doubt pay in cash.
10
DACA is another predictable action coming to pass in fulfillment of Trump's ultra nationalistic agenda. Anyone looking at the big picture can see how this exclusionary plan is being put in place.
7
So much flip-flopping, rather than winning..
First, Trump promises to cover even more Americans than Obamacare, at even lower costs, without cutting Medicaid, AND he tells us he has a plan that shows how to do so. Once in office, he caves 100% to RINO Ryan, so now supports the EXACT opposite, Ryancare, although the vast majority of the American people AND his own base reject Ryancare.
Then, he forgets about building the wall during his first 8 months in office (all talk, no action ...), which actually reflects the opinion of the American people, as only 28% want a wall (end of July poll), and even less than 50% of white Americans want it (for a logical reason: illegal immigration at the Mexican border is at a 17-year low). But now all of a sudden he asks Congress to start building it.
The next question is then: HOW will he get Mexico to pay for it, as promised? Answer: he won't. Only 18% of the American people agree that taxpayers should pay for it, so ... now that's what he wants Congress to do - although he only asks for less than 10% of its price tag, which means that ten years from now there will still not be any wall ... .
He also promised to protect the LGTB community BETTER than the Democrats. Of course, once in office, he does the exact opposite.
And now it's immigration. Ending DACA but "with a heart", as he promised, of course means ending it AFTER Congress passes comprehensive immigration reform, NOT using 2 million people as a mere bargaining chip...
Sad.
First, Trump promises to cover even more Americans than Obamacare, at even lower costs, without cutting Medicaid, AND he tells us he has a plan that shows how to do so. Once in office, he caves 100% to RINO Ryan, so now supports the EXACT opposite, Ryancare, although the vast majority of the American people AND his own base reject Ryancare.
Then, he forgets about building the wall during his first 8 months in office (all talk, no action ...), which actually reflects the opinion of the American people, as only 28% want a wall (end of July poll), and even less than 50% of white Americans want it (for a logical reason: illegal immigration at the Mexican border is at a 17-year low). But now all of a sudden he asks Congress to start building it.
The next question is then: HOW will he get Mexico to pay for it, as promised? Answer: he won't. Only 18% of the American people agree that taxpayers should pay for it, so ... now that's what he wants Congress to do - although he only asks for less than 10% of its price tag, which means that ten years from now there will still not be any wall ... .
He also promised to protect the LGTB community BETTER than the Democrats. Of course, once in office, he does the exact opposite.
And now it's immigration. Ending DACA but "with a heart", as he promised, of course means ending it AFTER Congress passes comprehensive immigration reform, NOT using 2 million people as a mere bargaining chip...
Sad.
4
One of the reasons why in the US a night at ER costs upward of 6k (while in Europe this is free or highly affordable) are the millions of illegals and their offspring who are using it. There is no concern for the cruelty against the legal people living in the US! Every country on the planet restricts and discourages illegal immigration, DACA encourages it.
22
So true; know someone who works in the ER and she tells me there are sometimes illegal immigrant woman/men coming into the ER with many children looking to for free medical service.
10
Back in the 80's there was the Reagan Amnesty which was supposed to be a one time only deal that would be followed by immigration reform and enforcement. Well, that didn't happen as thirty more years have passed during which we have had no immigration reform, no proper enforcement, no real employer verification, not nearly enough deportations, and now we are looking at a mini-amnesty for people who through no fault of their own are in this country illegally.
As a taxpayer and citizen I am fed up with Congress and it's lack of will to act. --Fine and jail the owners and CEO's of businesses that employ illegal labor. Illegal migrants aren't just working in the fields. They are working in restaurants, hospitably, and construction because they will work more cheaply and with less complaint than American citizens. This doesn't mean the American citizens are lazy, but it may mean that the employers of American have become addicted to cheap labor and will get it by any means.
--Implement a wide ranging working guest worker program.
--Enforce deportation orders.
As a taxpayer and citizen I am fed up with Congress and it's lack of will to act. --Fine and jail the owners and CEO's of businesses that employ illegal labor. Illegal migrants aren't just working in the fields. They are working in restaurants, hospitably, and construction because they will work more cheaply and with less complaint than American citizens. This doesn't mean the American citizens are lazy, but it may mean that the employers of American have become addicted to cheap labor and will get it by any means.
--Implement a wide ranging working guest worker program.
--Enforce deportation orders.
21
Obama has deported more illegal aliens than any president in history and yet he still saw the fundamental fairness in providing DACA children a home here, and proposed legislation to do so. The GOP blocked it. Exercising wisdom and a sense of fairness, he found a way to do the right thing by exercising discretion regarding which aliens to focus on. It was a good moment in our history. Thanks Obama.
Immigration with Mexico had slowed to near net-zero by the time Trump took office. Now Trump and the GOP can't even think straight about the topic, because they are torn between doing the right thing and accommodating the racist mob that is the GOP base. What an ugly moment in our history. Thanks, GOP.
Immigration with Mexico had slowed to near net-zero by the time Trump took office. Now Trump and the GOP can't even think straight about the topic, because they are torn between doing the right thing and accommodating the racist mob that is the GOP base. What an ugly moment in our history. Thanks, GOP.
1
Democrats wanted to buy votes with the promise of citizenship. Didn't work out so well.
19
Unless you're talking about the fact that voters would prefer to morally upright and humane candidates rather than racists advocating petty cruelty, your comment is false. There was no path to citizenship for DACA children.
1
So instead we sell citizenship to anyone with half a million to spare.
1
A fine example of the weakness of governing our country by Executive Order.
1
How ironic.
DACA was put in place to silence the Dreamers and help Hillary win the election.
DACA cost Hillary the election.
DACA was put in place to silence the Dreamers and help Hillary win the election.
DACA cost Hillary the election.
14
Hillary cost Hillary the election.
7
@rjt
No. The Electoral College cost Hillary the election.
No. The Electoral College cost Hillary the election.
3
Come y and the Russians had a lot more to do with it. Since DACA is approved by over half the people in the US, I doubt if it had anything to do with the election.
"Dreamers" Nice political trope--like lost puppies--for criminal behavior.
What happens when a president uses executive orders to circumvent Congress. Thank you, Mr. Obama.
But what to do now? Get in line as Ellis Island immigrants once did--then become citizens, and vote.
What happens when a president uses executive orders to circumvent Congress. Thank you, Mr. Obama.
But what to do now? Get in line as Ellis Island immigrants once did--then become citizens, and vote.
11
The President says that he loves The Dreamers, so naturally everyone's preparing mentally for the torturous reveal.
The mastermind will toy with our imperilled stars by telling them "Congressional henchman have the Obama Death Ray and oops, it's armed and in 6 months, futures will end."
"However, do not worry", he will exude, "I'm confident that enough Democratic capitulation votes will forge some kind of anvil upon which I can strike my mighy pen. And then we shall see, but it will be "terrific".
Bottomline: Reagan could have insisted on stiff penalties and enforcement for hiring future undocumented workers as part of the 1986 "amnesty" legislation, but Reagan did not insist. So more workers came for wages from, again, predominantly Republican ranch, farm, and business owners.
First, we need some adults to show-up for legislative work. Second, our leaders should speak to all Americans, as adults, that these children BELIEVED what they were taught: to love America.
These children adopted America. Any real adult knows that they are OUR pride and they should be treated as such.
The mastermind will toy with our imperilled stars by telling them "Congressional henchman have the Obama Death Ray and oops, it's armed and in 6 months, futures will end."
"However, do not worry", he will exude, "I'm confident that enough Democratic capitulation votes will forge some kind of anvil upon which I can strike my mighy pen. And then we shall see, but it will be "terrific".
Bottomline: Reagan could have insisted on stiff penalties and enforcement for hiring future undocumented workers as part of the 1986 "amnesty" legislation, but Reagan did not insist. So more workers came for wages from, again, predominantly Republican ranch, farm, and business owners.
First, we need some adults to show-up for legislative work. Second, our leaders should speak to all Americans, as adults, that these children BELIEVED what they were taught: to love America.
These children adopted America. Any real adult knows that they are OUR pride and they should be treated as such.
5
So ... Amnesty didn't work when it was a repubican idea. It didn't work when it was a Democrat idea. Let me go out on a limb and say that incentivizing criminal behavior isn't a good thing, unless you need the votes.
13
False. The DACA children violated no laws --they were children. And DACA provides no path to citizenship -- no amnesty. If you're going to share your opinion you have an obligation to have some command of the facts.
The children weren't the criminals. Get a grip.
1
Suppose your parents, American citizens say, bought your childhood home with profits from selling heroin. The DEA throws your parents in jail, and, further, seizes your home. You are forced to live elsewhere with your grandparents. According to liberal logic, taking away the home you and your siblings grew up in for the crimes of your parents would be cruel and unusual punishment. Well sorry, that's the law. Too bad. Life deals a lot of people hard knocks. Blame your parents and move on. Living with your grandparents or returning to your country of citizenship isn't a death sentence (and if it is then apply for political asylum).
41
FYI: DACA was introduced as a bill in 2001 by Senators Durbin (D) and Orrin Hatch (R).
And as polls show, until today the vast majority of the American people continue to support it in a bipartisan way, whereas it's included in all bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bills until now.
That's because in this country, you cannot be punished, as a child, for the crimes your parents committed.
It's called "law and order", remember?
For the same reason, when a parent gets imprisoned today, US law is such that it's up to a judge to decide who can best take care of the children, which often means that they're sent to foster homes. The law, here, intends to PROTECT the child from criminal parents/family, rather than PUNISH it, you see?
You seem to disagree though, and believe in a society where if parents make mistakes, it's their children who should not only suffer from the consequences of these mistakes (= the often lifelong high levels of anxiety and depression that accompany the fact of having a parent in prison), but who should be punished by law too, rather than be protected ... ?
If yes, why?
Why does it make sense, in your eyes, to actively use the law in order to destroy children's lives (and as a consequence, increase the probability that they become criminals themselves)?
And as polls show, until today the vast majority of the American people continue to support it in a bipartisan way, whereas it's included in all bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bills until now.
That's because in this country, you cannot be punished, as a child, for the crimes your parents committed.
It's called "law and order", remember?
For the same reason, when a parent gets imprisoned today, US law is such that it's up to a judge to decide who can best take care of the children, which often means that they're sent to foster homes. The law, here, intends to PROTECT the child from criminal parents/family, rather than PUNISH it, you see?
You seem to disagree though, and believe in a society where if parents make mistakes, it's their children who should not only suffer from the consequences of these mistakes (= the often lifelong high levels of anxiety and depression that accompany the fact of having a parent in prison), but who should be punished by law too, rather than be protected ... ?
If yes, why?
Why does it make sense, in your eyes, to actively use the law in order to destroy children's lives (and as a consequence, increase the probability that they become criminals themselves)?
9
Durbin has also opposed the employment based immigration - including the H-1B visa - for years. He is selective in his support of immigration.
1
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to obtain political asylum status in the US? Your comments show a substantial ignorance about just how dangerous it will be for some of the dreamers to return to their homeland. Many are from Central America where the murder rates are higher than anywhere else in the Western world. We have invested in these young people and we should be selfish and keep them here
4
I actually think that if there had not been so much illegal immigration over the past 20 years, Americans would feel more charitable toward Dreamers and would have been less likely to elect an angry, anti-immigrant buffoon for President. This is a way of saying that Democrats helped create the Trumpian backlash against illegal immigrants, by appearing to condone illegal immigration (plenty of letters here appear to condone illegal immigration). Calling people racist for opposing illegal immigration didn't help either.
17
Americans DO feel charitable toward dreamers.
This was Jon Meacham and Fareed Zakaria's point on the Bill Maher Show. In their words, "it is not racism to debate immigration." But the Democrats, like the little boy blue crying wolf, have so over-used the word "racist" as a label against any and everything they disagree with, the word has lost all meaning. People of all stripes who voted Democrat for over 20 years, including President Obama in both 2008 and 2012, are being told they are "racist" for supporting African-American, Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Jordan's recommendations for immigration reform.
2
If both parties weren't hell bent on decimating the middle and working classes by shipping as many jobs overseas as they could to keep their donors happy, while allowing the import of so much cheap labor to decimate the wages of those jobs that were left, and dumping the costs on the segments of the population least able to afford it, i reckon the country overall would be a lot more charitible than they're currently inclined to be.
2
What do dreamers do now? They can joint the Haitians and head for Canada. Looking at two years, on average till their asylum claims with appeals are heard, so they can join the queue. It gets cold in the winter though so be forewarned.
12
There is no repeal of DACA, since DACA was an Executive Order from Obama who lacked the courage to force the issue with Congress, either when he had control or when the Repubs did. Again, he built on sand, and this is the cost, to be borne by others.
Trump here is doing the right thing - put Congress and America on notice that DACA needs to and deserves to have a real life, springing from legislation, not from fiat. he is forcing a Congress that lacks courage to go on record - Trump is not forbidding that, he is encouraging it. Well done, DJT (in this case).
Trump here is doing the right thing - put Congress and America on notice that DACA needs to and deserves to have a real life, springing from legislation, not from fiat. he is forcing a Congress that lacks courage to go on record - Trump is not forbidding that, he is encouraging it. Well done, DJT (in this case).
6
It's actually thanks to Obama that for the first time in years there has been a real, bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill, remember?
And that bill included DACA, itself a bipartisan bill proposed already in 2001 by Sen. Durbin and Orrin Hatch.
But the GOP leadership decided to start playing politics with it, and that's the only reason why it wasn't signed into law.
As it doesn't make any sense to keep a million of young Americans in the shadows indefinitely whereas a majority wants the opposite, Obama decided to sign DACA as a temporary measure, until Congress gets its act together and finally passes comprehensive immigration reform.
What Trump is doing now is the exact opposite: threatening to destroy the lives of those one million Americans IF within six months Congress doesn't pass Cotton's extremely partisan immigration reform bill.
OF COURSE Congress won't pass a bill that only a small minority of the American people and elected officials in Congress support.
Trump is once again showing that he doesn't understand how lawmaking works in a democracy.
Just like with healthcare and the wall, he seems to imagine that what is good for America is NOT what he's supposed to work on, but that that's what Congress and the American people want, so what he can use in order to try to impose things that only an extremist fringe supports.
He was elected to MAGA. NOT to destroy it if Congress refuses to pass highly unpopular bills.
So it won't work of course ..
And that bill included DACA, itself a bipartisan bill proposed already in 2001 by Sen. Durbin and Orrin Hatch.
But the GOP leadership decided to start playing politics with it, and that's the only reason why it wasn't signed into law.
As it doesn't make any sense to keep a million of young Americans in the shadows indefinitely whereas a majority wants the opposite, Obama decided to sign DACA as a temporary measure, until Congress gets its act together and finally passes comprehensive immigration reform.
What Trump is doing now is the exact opposite: threatening to destroy the lives of those one million Americans IF within six months Congress doesn't pass Cotton's extremely partisan immigration reform bill.
OF COURSE Congress won't pass a bill that only a small minority of the American people and elected officials in Congress support.
Trump is once again showing that he doesn't understand how lawmaking works in a democracy.
Just like with healthcare and the wall, he seems to imagine that what is good for America is NOT what he's supposed to work on, but that that's what Congress and the American people want, so what he can use in order to try to impose things that only an extremist fringe supports.
He was elected to MAGA. NOT to destroy it if Congress refuses to pass highly unpopular bills.
So it won't work of course ..
It's Trump who lacks courage. He knows ending DACA is wrong, but his base demands blood, so he's making it the Congress's problem. He's a coward, like most bullies.
1
"Lacked the courage"? Oh, brother...what planet are you on? Wherever it is, you didn't get the news that Congress, either by direct vote or by filibuster, blocked almost everything Obama tried to do. If Congress had been thinking about the future of America instead of how to hang on to their gerrymandered jobs, what a better place we'd be in!
1
He needs to grandfather the current DACA citizens---and yes, I am sure many feel they are citizens now, having grown up here, and then re-visit extending the program going forward. The current DACA recipients, if they have followed the rules, should not be living under a threat of deportation. This is just wrong. Why can't our congress work together? Why are they such troublesome fools?
We are facing current national natural disasters, an impending possible nuclear war and these fools are thinking up ways of throwing out kids who have grown up here. I think we have more important issues to surmount.
Grow a spine President Trump and let them stay. You know you want to. Stop listening to the hard right liners--they do not speak for this country. They are simply the vocal minority. Perhaps start listening to your wife--also an immigrant. How would she feel if it were her son under threat of deportation.
We are facing current national natural disasters, an impending possible nuclear war and these fools are thinking up ways of throwing out kids who have grown up here. I think we have more important issues to surmount.
Grow a spine President Trump and let them stay. You know you want to. Stop listening to the hard right liners--they do not speak for this country. They are simply the vocal minority. Perhaps start listening to your wife--also an immigrant. How would she feel if it were her son under threat of deportation.
17
The Dreamers are not citizens. Had Obama grown a spine, they might be citizens today, but the Executive Order is a weak, temporary method of governing, fraught with the risk of being overruled by a successor.
7
Janice - we have been down the amnesty road before and in return for our compassion got an unfettered flood of millions more migrating illegally leading to the current crisis. Perhaps in lovely Park City you are unaware of overcrowded schools, increasing budgets and property taxes, emergency rooms where you are the only one speaking English let alone giving out insurance information. Here in CT all the costs and responsibilities of citizenship have increased significantly while an entire class of residents reaps the benefits exempt from such 'troublesome' laws and regulations. I'm a liberal and life long northeasterner and sick of it.
12
We are from Boston
In Park City, there are tons of Mexican' here. The schoolyard overcrowded. I get all of that.
In Park City, there are tons of Mexican' here. The schoolyard overcrowded. I get all of that.
1
I thought that ending DACA was just about the most arbitrary cruel thing Trump could do -- next to keeping Sean Spicer away from the Pope, which had a pettiness that is stunning.
But announcing that an announcement would be made on Tuesday was really beyond the pale. Do they just not care how they torture folks? Rhetorical, I guess; we already know the answer.
Anyway, here's what will happen. Congress will do exactly nothing for six months. Why would they? If they come up with a DACA type bill, the Rs will be primaried out of office.
So, president will be faced with the same issue in six months. He will probably give Congress another chance. And so on.
The net result will be DACA stays on the books, and that the souls of the DACA folks will be eaten by the eternal threat that hangs over them.
That's what's gonna happen. You heard it here first.
But announcing that an announcement would be made on Tuesday was really beyond the pale. Do they just not care how they torture folks? Rhetorical, I guess; we already know the answer.
Anyway, here's what will happen. Congress will do exactly nothing for six months. Why would they? If they come up with a DACA type bill, the Rs will be primaried out of office.
So, president will be faced with the same issue in six months. He will probably give Congress another chance. And so on.
The net result will be DACA stays on the books, and that the souls of the DACA folks will be eaten by the eternal threat that hangs over them.
That's what's gonna happen. You heard it here first.
11
RE: "They thought they could trust the government. In fact, in some cases lawyers advised clients who were considering applying not to, precisely, they said, because the government couldn’t be trusted."
Not trusting the government. Ironically this puts them in agreement with the radical right wing.
Back to the Native Americans the US Government has had no compunction in reneging on agreements and/or lying to the non-white population. Some will blame the "dreamers" for being naive enough to believe that they could trust the government.
Not trusting the government. Ironically this puts them in agreement with the radical right wing.
Back to the Native Americans the US Government has had no compunction in reneging on agreements and/or lying to the non-white population. Some will blame the "dreamers" for being naive enough to believe that they could trust the government.
5
It's the American public who can't trust our government. We were promised no more amnesties over twenty years ago and here we are again with the demands for amnesty.
1
Trump's "big heart" really needs a stake through it. The undead are the main Republicans these days, since they have no souls and no human qualities left.
Most of the ones who oppose it cite ridiculous and false arguments. The DACA recipients were all screened and have committed no crimes. The average age when they came to the U.S. was six years old. Of course, they committed no crime in coming. At that age, they had toys.
Previous presidents did all kinds of immigration rules such as excluding Cubans from having to meet immigration requirements. The average DACA recipient is 22 years old, employed, and earns about $17 an hour. The majority are still students and 17 percent are pursuing an advanced degree.
Some commenters on these boards have made very racist comments, accusing Dreamers of being peasants, of being capable only of menial jobs, etc. These are the same arguments once made against black people, the Irish, Italians, and other persecuted groups.
Racism, bigotry, hatred, and cruelty are the only things that the GOP represents anymore. Someday, each person may face a last judgment. How will they justify so much hatred and such terrible actions? If they lived in 1930s Germany, I suspect we all know who they would support.
Most of the ones who oppose it cite ridiculous and false arguments. The DACA recipients were all screened and have committed no crimes. The average age when they came to the U.S. was six years old. Of course, they committed no crime in coming. At that age, they had toys.
Previous presidents did all kinds of immigration rules such as excluding Cubans from having to meet immigration requirements. The average DACA recipient is 22 years old, employed, and earns about $17 an hour. The majority are still students and 17 percent are pursuing an advanced degree.
Some commenters on these boards have made very racist comments, accusing Dreamers of being peasants, of being capable only of menial jobs, etc. These are the same arguments once made against black people, the Irish, Italians, and other persecuted groups.
Racism, bigotry, hatred, and cruelty are the only things that the GOP represents anymore. Someday, each person may face a last judgment. How will they justify so much hatred and such terrible actions? If they lived in 1930s Germany, I suspect we all know who they would support.
13
Well, SMB, contrary to what you write, the DACA people came here, or were brought here, without proper authority. The U.S. Code states that such illegal entry is a violation of our law, and is "A Federal Offense". Perhaps you should ask Congress to change the laws........
7
Because having borders and expelling non-citizens is exactly like being a Nazi.
Don't you think that might be a tad hyperbolic?
Israel routinely expels illegal immigrant East Africans. The illegal immigrants don't get a chance to reach critical mass and attempt to guilt trip the Israeli public into letting them stay. By your argument then the Israelis who do this would support Nazis in 1930s Germany....
Don't you think that might be a tad hyperbolic?
Israel routinely expels illegal immigrant East Africans. The illegal immigrants don't get a chance to reach critical mass and attempt to guilt trip the Israeli public into letting them stay. By your argument then the Israelis who do this would support Nazis in 1930s Germany....
3
It is really funny to read that trump worries that the DACA program is illegal. He only cares about the rule of law when it helps him, in this case his base loves to deport people!! When the rule of law goes against him he just disregards it. VERY SAD!!!
As for the dreamers, the best thing for them is for congress to make the program the rule of law. However I have my doughs that will happen as Ryan and Mitch have no backbone.
As for the dreamers, the best thing for them is for congress to make the program the rule of law. However I have my doughs that will happen as Ryan and Mitch have no backbone.
8
In lambasting "the expansive cruelty of the executive branch" and asserting its perceived Torquemadas "may yet be tempered by the powers and wisdom of America’s legal system," Ms Cuison Villazor not only gets the law wrong, but, with her partisan tone, risks antagonizing congressional Republicans whose votes will be needed to save DACA.
I fear that tomorrow President Obama will compound Ms. Cuison Villazor's blunder, killing DACA when it might be saved.
Even if the administration were of a mind to continue DACA, the courts aren't likely to allow it. Mr. Obama usurped legislative authority when he created DACA and virtually every dispassionate legal observer will admit it. So I have no idea what courts Ms. Cuison Villazor has in mind.
As for Mr. Obama, he proved to be a master at antagonizing congressional Republicans with big dollops of sanctimonious oratory, especially in his second term. (They weren't fair to him either, of course; recall the legislator who yelled "you lie" at the president.) I fear that Mr. Obama is going to say something haughty enough that congressional Republicans will kill the DACA program out of spite or rancor. Please, Mr. Obama, say nothing!
I fear that tomorrow President Obama will compound Ms. Cuison Villazor's blunder, killing DACA when it might be saved.
Even if the administration were of a mind to continue DACA, the courts aren't likely to allow it. Mr. Obama usurped legislative authority when he created DACA and virtually every dispassionate legal observer will admit it. So I have no idea what courts Ms. Cuison Villazor has in mind.
As for Mr. Obama, he proved to be a master at antagonizing congressional Republicans with big dollops of sanctimonious oratory, especially in his second term. (They weren't fair to him either, of course; recall the legislator who yelled "you lie" at the president.) I fear that Mr. Obama is going to say something haughty enough that congressional Republicans will kill the DACA program out of spite or rancor. Please, Mr. Obama, say nothing!
6
When good people say nothing, evil prevails.
Oh, I know that's a cliche. But it's true that one never wins anything by silence or inaction.
Oh, I know that's a cliche. But it's true that one never wins anything by silence or inaction.
3
Obama antagonized congressional Republicans - REALLY! How quickly they forget that the GOPs main goal was, "To make Obama a one-term President." and the GOP blocked everything he proposed even if he echoed their own GOP proposals. Its difficult to square Cyclist's comment with reality and facts.
5
It is not evil to have and enforce immigration laws.
3
First off: how do our European (and Australian) allies handle this issue?
Next: as the son of immigrants (1908/legal; 1916/illegal) I feel that it is reasonable for congress to establish/legislate DACA. America is a land of immigrants after al,l and they allow our economy to grow.
However, in the current bipartisan, toxic atmosphere, a taxpayer can only hope that congress will step up to the plate.
Next: as the son of immigrants (1908/legal; 1916/illegal) I feel that it is reasonable for congress to establish/legislate DACA. America is a land of immigrants after al,l and they allow our economy to grow.
However, in the current bipartisan, toxic atmosphere, a taxpayer can only hope that congress will step up to the plate.
3
Each European country handles immigration differently. But after the recent explosion of migrants and refugees from war-torn and poverty-stricken lands, the laws have gotten much stricter.
7
What is Trump truly guilty of? He defies the principles of survival, Natural Law. Every executive order has been laced with decreasing freedom, ending lives, or making the planet less habitable. From whence this mindset comes is a mind that is overly prone to error, leading to the failure to observe accurately before applying reliable conclusions. This latest gambit only has the patina of seeking a legislative overdue solution. It is really his distorted politics that confuses, lays off blame, and still allows him to pound his chest at the outcome. He is incapable of knowing the right thing to do.
10
Please do not brand the parents of DACA kids criminals. Overstaying a visa is a civil, not a criminal, offense. Many of these parents are not criminals, they are just over-stayers. Treating their children as if their parents are criminals isn't warranted.
7
Their parents ARE criminals......The U.S. Code states clearly that "entering the U.S. without proper authority is a Federal Offense". Look it up. Use your search engine. It is right there in black and white.
2
And what is the penalty for over-staying a visa or entering a nation without permission? Why it's getting sent back to your home country. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Go home.
2
Recently on a business trip to Peru someone I was meeting with brought along someone to help with his lack of English. After a few minutes I detected a southern accent on my translators English and not southern as in South America. After the meeting I asked him how did he have a southern US accent? He told me a somewhat strange story, he was brought to the US at the age of 5 by his mother and raised in Georgia he told me he had no idea he was not legally in the US until he was 17 or 18 years old. When he was 21 he met a Peruvian girl visiting the states and made the mistake of leaving the US to marry her. Course the marriage failed and he is trapped in Peru. His younger brother was born in the US and his mother married an American so they are now legal. But he is barred from even a tourist visa to visit his family. He had a pretty good attitude about because in his mid to late twenties he still held out hope that eventually he will be able to at least visit the US and possibly return to live.
4
I am shocked at the many awful comments that are supportive of the end of DACA. Even if your only interest is self-interest, DACA should stay. The libertarian Cato Institute concluded "The deportation of DACA participants would cost the American economy billions of dollars, as well as billions of tax dollars foregone, while doing little to address the true concerns that Americans may have about unauthorized immigrants."
8
I am sympathetic to a lot of the Libertarian positions. But they're also diehard pro-open borders, cheap labor, and no social safety net. Which is consistent - go back to your Econ 101 to remind yourself of the law of supply and demand and it's effect on costs and wages, and also that you can have open borders or a social safety net, but not both.
4
I find it difficult to agree with Trump on most matters, but the perplexing question with DACA is why didn't the 'dreamers' simply apply for U.S. citizenship and avoid this crisis? It seems they had ample time to do it.
4
There is no path to citizenship for people who are in the country "illegally." That's the whole point. DACA is their only hope.
3
The Congress has been unsuccessful
in passing immigration reform. Why? Because the Reoublucan controlled Congress is so fractured that they cannot agree on a plan. The hard liners do mot want to provide a path to citizenship , for those who no longer have legal status due to visa expiration or those who risked their lives to come here with no permission..The issue will remain unresolved for the foreseeable future.
in passing immigration reform. Why? Because the Reoublucan controlled Congress is so fractured that they cannot agree on a plan. The hard liners do mot want to provide a path to citizenship , for those who no longer have legal status due to visa expiration or those who risked their lives to come here with no permission..The issue will remain unresolved for the foreseeable future.
1
Then they become unfortunate (unwitting) consequences of an illegal act-- with emphasis on "illegal." If someone sneaks into a baseball game they may get to sit through seven innings without paying. But there's no guarantee they won't be thrown out in the eighth.
Regrettably, Trump is right on this one.
Regrettably, Trump is right on this one.
2
We need some type of responsible immigration reform. Shame on both parties for doing absolutely nothing for decades...for refusing to address this problem head on before it became a crisis. Here is the essential question that this column does not address...but must be addressed. Why should illegal immigrants (including DACA recipients) go to the head of the line towards citizenship while everyone else must play by the rules? Why? This is unfair. I'm not saying we shouldn't have sympathy for them or try to help them... but why are we making an exception for them? My kids went to an International school with children from all over the world. I knew many parents who had to hire lawyers and go through a long, frustrating laborious process to become U.S. citizens. Some for one reason or another couldn't obtain citizenship and had to go back home. Why are we making an exception here but not for other people. Who decides what constitutes being a “dreamer”? Yes, that sounds nice and, it tugs at hearts. But the people who play by the rules are also dreamers. Why the hypocritical double standard? Can someone explain this to me?
12
With the previous "broad bipartisan support", why is this an issue? Our Nation's children who were brought to American soil should not be penalized for their parents decisions.
2
It's an issue because Congress responds to its owners, not it's constituents.
2
This was one of Trump's campaign promises...and elections have consequences. The Dreamers will need to leave the country and get back in line with everyone else.
8
Interesting how everyone in the U.S forgets that we are all the descendants of illegal immigrants. Who came across the Atlantic, invaded parts of Mexico to make them Texas and California. How we brought diseases -both unwillingly and willingly- to kill off the native population that was already here.
How only 300 years ago these illegal immigrants kept on coming and settling in this part of the world because they too had dreams and were being persecuted in their home country.
I think the real problem we have is that our school system doesn't teach the real history of the U.S., its population, were they came from and what they did once they got here. Lets at least be honest about ourselves before criticizing those seeking the same things our ancestors did.
The last thing I will say, as much as I disagree with Donald Trump, I actually would love for the Republican Congress to vote on and pass a resolution one way or the other to this issue. They all opposed this when President Obama did it and now they are all urging Trump not to end it. I'm sick of their talk and hypocrisy, DO YOUR JOB AND VOTE!
How only 300 years ago these illegal immigrants kept on coming and settling in this part of the world because they too had dreams and were being persecuted in their home country.
I think the real problem we have is that our school system doesn't teach the real history of the U.S., its population, were they came from and what they did once they got here. Lets at least be honest about ourselves before criticizing those seeking the same things our ancestors did.
The last thing I will say, as much as I disagree with Donald Trump, I actually would love for the Republican Congress to vote on and pass a resolution one way or the other to this issue. They all opposed this when President Obama did it and now they are all urging Trump not to end it. I'm sick of their talk and hypocrisy, DO YOUR JOB AND VOTE!
4
No, we are not all descended from illegal immigrants.
2
1) Again, not every American is descended from an immigrant.
2) Mexico, like every other country in the New World, is a European derived settler state. Crying about Texas and California belonging to Mexico makes no more sense than saying that Mexico itself belongs to the Nahua and Aztecs.
3) What made sense as immigration policy in 1912 doesn't make sense in 2017.
2) Mexico, like every other country in the New World, is a European derived settler state. Crying about Texas and California belonging to Mexico makes no more sense than saying that Mexico itself belongs to the Nahua and Aztecs.
3) What made sense as immigration policy in 1912 doesn't make sense in 2017.
1
What waste of time, energy and resources, when we have so many serious problems in our country that need to be addressed.
Our country was built by hard working immigrants and, if anything, these young people should be rewarded for their contributions and serve as role models for the kids who take their citizenship for granted, commit crimes, and contribute little or nothing to society.
Our country was built by hard working immigrants and, if anything, these young people should be rewarded for their contributions and serve as role models for the kids who take their citizenship for granted, commit crimes, and contribute little or nothing to society.
3
Please, please, please, sue about this, and include those nine vainglorious attorneys general and the one governor who brought about this fake deadline. They are proposing to harm not only these 800,000 and those close to them, but also the economy that benefits from their work and their contributions. It's a stupid, selfish, shortsighted perspective and needs to be sent pacing.
4
How many DACA recipients are toddlers and minors ?
These are adults shielding their parents, knowing that they committed a crime.
By abetting criminals, they are culpable under law as well.
Defend them ? No. Arrest and deport them.
These are adults shielding their parents, knowing that they committed a crime.
By abetting criminals, they are culpable under law as well.
Defend them ? No. Arrest and deport them.
6
Bhaskar: Your definition of "crime" is morally repugnant. Heaven will not accept those who are immoral while following the letter of an immoral set of laws.
5
Average DACA dreamer is 25. The oldest are 36, since the rule were set up in 2011 and the maximum age then was 31.
2
Remember how Trump bashed Sessions for recusing himself and bashed McConnell for not repealing and replacing OBAMACare?
I see Kelly being bashed big time for getting Trump into this DACA mess.
I see Kelly being bashed big time for getting Trump into this DACA mess.
1
Trump kisses the rings of Falwell, Robertson ,Liberty University, pretending to be spiritual. But in the true meaning of hypocrisy he has hit a homer. The only thing about removing him he would be replaced by hypocrite number two. Their phony beliefs is why a lot of folks(Me) resent religion.
3
Congressional Democrats can and should ensure that DACA becomes permanent law by refusing to vote on aid to Houston until we fulfill our promise to the Dreamers.
2
Rabbit Abraham Herschel noted the prophets’ horror when we treated one another unjustly: “To us a single act of injustice--cheating in business, exploitation of the poor--is slight; to the prophets, a disaster. To us injustice is injurious to the welfare of the people; to the prophets it is a deathblow to existence: to us, an episode; to them, a catastrophe, a threat to the world.” Sending children - whatever their age today - back to “home” countries they fled with their parents because of injustice will be a catastrophe to the humanity of this nation.
5
The average age of DACA recipients is 25. They are not children and it is not an injustice to enforce our laws. Every nation has immigration laws.
3
One possible solution. Tie Hurricane Harvey Aid to DACA. No more waiting, bring it to a head. Why wait 6 months for Congress to waffle around the subject and keep these kids and young adults and their families in suspense.
Ryan wants it to remain as does Pelosi. And they have clout. Bipartisanship may be there.
Just do it!
Ryan wants it to remain as does Pelosi. And they have clout. Bipartisanship may be there.
Just do it!
2
I was in the last lottery for the draft during the Viet Nam war. The 'America: Love it or leave it' crowd was loud, cold hearted, stupid and cruel. With this president and this decision, I am just about ready to leave, because this isn't my country anymore.
4
We'll be hearing the DACA decision shortly. Trump tells us he has a "big heart" and that the Dreamers will be taken care of -- that's surely translucent code for the soon-to-be-revealed fact that he plans to nail all of them to the wall, in part using the personal information they provided on their applications.
But maybe he won't?
Its surely all part of this sweet mystery of life -- the awe-inspiring unpredictability of the impeccably predictable Donald Trump.
He'll nail all of them. Just watch.
But maybe he won't?
Its surely all part of this sweet mystery of life -- the awe-inspiring unpredictability of the impeccably predictable Donald Trump.
He'll nail all of them. Just watch.
2
It bears repeating that this controversy pits law against justice. Ideally, these two principles should merge into one, but in practice the law often bears the imprint of political infighting or bureaucratic thinking, either of which could distort or deny justice. In this case, despite widespread popular support for DACA, a minority in Congress has used parliamentary maneuvers to doom legislative reinforcement of the program. Consequently, the Trump administration, whose contempt for the rule of law shapes its approach to governing, will probably decide to pander to its base, despite the devastation such action will wreak on the lives of 800,000 Americans.
Rigid enforcement of the law will not truly benefit the white working class. Over the last two years, our economy has expanded employment at a rate that would require only four months to create jobs equal in number to the total Dreamer contingent. Nor would mass deportation somehow preserve American culture from corruption, whatever that would mean. Dreamers have lived in this country since they were small children, so most have absorbed American values as thoroughly as have the native born.
From a narrow economic perspective, the law requires that we expel several hundred thousand individuals whom we have spent substantial sums educating and training. Our investment will now bear fruit in other countries. The stupidity of such an action should be apparent to our celebrated businessman in the Oval Office.
Rigid enforcement of the law will not truly benefit the white working class. Over the last two years, our economy has expanded employment at a rate that would require only four months to create jobs equal in number to the total Dreamer contingent. Nor would mass deportation somehow preserve American culture from corruption, whatever that would mean. Dreamers have lived in this country since they were small children, so most have absorbed American values as thoroughly as have the native born.
From a narrow economic perspective, the law requires that we expel several hundred thousand individuals whom we have spent substantial sums educating and training. Our investment will now bear fruit in other countries. The stupidity of such an action should be apparent to our celebrated businessman in the Oval Office.
167
'Our investment'; the substantial sums taxpayers spent on eduction, training (and free healthcare) was forced by willfully illegal actions.
We are now asked to indefinitely continue to reward this lawless opportunism.
If these now adults have absorbed American values (that should not include breaking laws that get in the way of your own self gain) then they can go back and finally reform corrupt oligarchies that prevent economic advancement. Think of it as a national service requirement in return for health and education.
We are now asked to indefinitely continue to reward this lawless opportunism.
If these now adults have absorbed American values (that should not include breaking laws that get in the way of your own self gain) then they can go back and finally reform corrupt oligarchies that prevent economic advancement. Think of it as a national service requirement in return for health and education.
7
Contrary to your implication, the Dreamers are not freeloaders.
Their parents worked and paid taxes. They bought homes and paid property taxes, or rented from those who paid those taxes, which is what supports public schools.
Once they are educated, Dreamers work and pay taxes.
And since they are a group that was screened from the 11 million undocumented immigrants, they're the best of them and will be better citizens than millions of people lucky enough to have been born in the United States.
Their parents worked and paid taxes. They bought homes and paid property taxes, or rented from those who paid those taxes, which is what supports public schools.
Once they are educated, Dreamers work and pay taxes.
And since they are a group that was screened from the 11 million undocumented immigrants, they're the best of them and will be better citizens than millions of people lucky enough to have been born in the United States.
88
Jerry, at an average rate of pay of $17/hour they're buying houses? I'd like to see the statistics.
2
I never imagined that the "War on Terror" would include the United States Government in the role of terrorist. If you put yourself in the shoes of a DACA Dreamer...their families, friends, employers...you know the anguish of living in a country where the president and his admirers hate immigrants, demand their removal and could care less about the cruelty and unintended (we hope) consequences of this tragic public policy. Anne Frank knew this same terror in the run-up to World War II. When the DACA Dreamers are forced into hiding in the basements and churches of American underground patriots, I urge them to keep a diary. Someday when America either comes to his senses (or is liberated by a new president with a modicum of integrity, these primary source historical documents will be valuable when our grandchildren ask: "How could you allow this to happen?"
219
What does Anne Frank have to do with this? That analogy is a bit of a stretch, considering the fact that she wasn't the only one who was effected by the Nazi terror.
7
"How could you allow this to happen?"
It is called "rule of law." As in, IRS requires "voluntary compliance."
If those in this Obama "nightmare" get a deal -- why should legals pay taxes "voluntarily?" Why not have a three-year temper tantrum of not paying, and then demand "amnesty?" At 20 cents on the dollar?
It is called "rule of law." As in, IRS requires "voluntary compliance."
If those in this Obama "nightmare" get a deal -- why should legals pay taxes "voluntarily?" Why not have a three-year temper tantrum of not paying, and then demand "amnesty?" At 20 cents on the dollar?
4
This is all about destroying the Obama legacy. Almost everything trump does is to destroy Obama's legacy, Ever since Obama teased trump at the correspondents dinner trump has thought of nothing but getting even with Obama,
Trump's motto has always been revenge.
Getting even with anyone who criticizes him is his only objective. it does not matter if it hurts the country he only wants to destroy the Obama name and legacy.
The most petty president in American history. I very embarrassed that he is the president of America. So very sad for America.
Trump's motto has always been revenge.
Getting even with anyone who criticizes him is his only objective. it does not matter if it hurts the country he only wants to destroy the Obama name and legacy.
The most petty president in American history. I very embarrassed that he is the president of America. So very sad for America.
1
Oh, do try to be sensible. The Dreamers are excellent citizen stock; educated, hard-working, patriotic, and motivated. They will be ornaments to any jurisdiction they live in. Like most immigrants, they will probably start new businesses at a much greater rate than native-born U.S. citizens. Unlike some of the one percenters, they actually do pay their taxes. They will be an economic plus to the country.
It’s not the Dreamers’ fault that their parents brought them to the U.S. when they were too young to object. What were they supposed to do, declare themselves to be emancipated minors at the border, and refuse to cross? It’s also not their fault that a largely obstructionist, largely Repbublican Congress can’t get off its collective butt and pass immigration legislation. Ruining their lives because Congress can’t function is absurd as well as cruel.
I guess I’m still pretending that the president and congress will do the sensible thing and let the Dreamers stay, but I’m not optimistic. I do hope they see the light, though; I’m old, and I really don’t want to go out on the street with the millions who will be demonstrating if any of the dreamers are actually deported. I’ll go if I have to, though; and my ancestors, who didn’t ask anyone’s permission when they got off the boats 300 years ago, would surely approve.
It’s not the Dreamers’ fault that their parents brought them to the U.S. when they were too young to object. What were they supposed to do, declare themselves to be emancipated minors at the border, and refuse to cross? It’s also not their fault that a largely obstructionist, largely Repbublican Congress can’t get off its collective butt and pass immigration legislation. Ruining their lives because Congress can’t function is absurd as well as cruel.
I guess I’m still pretending that the president and congress will do the sensible thing and let the Dreamers stay, but I’m not optimistic. I do hope they see the light, though; I’m old, and I really don’t want to go out on the street with the millions who will be demonstrating if any of the dreamers are actually deported. I’ll go if I have to, though; and my ancestors, who didn’t ask anyone’s permission when they got off the boats 300 years ago, would surely approve.
343
Would you please explain to my cousin, who has been "legally" waiting and filling out forms for years, the reasons why the Dreamers should jump the line and go ahead of him to become citizens? I can't do so........
61
I am for the Dreamers. However, you are in error on not needing permission 300 years ago. By now, one can click on Google and find all the ship manifests for the 20,000 German refugees that were given permission to emigrate to the Colonies by Queen Anne of England in 1709. These German refugees were victims of the devestation in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. My German ancestor came into the Port of NYC in 1710 as a result.
2
Because they did not make the choice to be brought here as children. Someone made that choice for them.
2
With strong enforcement procedures on immigration, both at the border and interior, I could be persuaded to allow the illegal immigrants children that were smuggled here years ago to stay.
But the parents? Never, ever should the parents be allowed citizenship. When the child is 18, the parents should be deported and no allowances to ever come back to the USA
But the parents? Never, ever should the parents be allowed citizenship. When the child is 18, the parents should be deported and no allowances to ever come back to the USA
13
As far as I know, most of them weren't "smuggled" here. Their parents entered through legal visa, and then overstayed their visa.
They often were able to do so because their American employer wanted them to stay and protected them (and of course, paid them).
So the children didn't commit any crime, but their parents and parents' employers did.
The only reasonable way to punish here is to punish parents AND employers, all while passing comprehensive immigration reform that includes a path for Dreamers to become legal residents.
For more than a decade now, Congress produces one comprehensive, bipartisan immigration bill after the other, and they all include the very strict conditions under which Dreamers can become temporary residents, permanent residents, and for some of them citizens, that today are included in DACA - simply because you can't ask a million young Americans to live in the shadows indefinitely just because Congress can't get its act together and prefers to play politics instead.
So it's absurd to now start playing with Dreamers' lives simply to try to force Democrats in Congress to give up parts of those previous bipartisan immigration reform bills that until today the majority of the American people keep supporting.
Trump is merely doing here what he tried in vain with HC: supporting what only a small minority of the American people want, and instead of engaging in tough negotiations, threatening to blow everything up, which of course doesn't work...
They often were able to do so because their American employer wanted them to stay and protected them (and of course, paid them).
So the children didn't commit any crime, but their parents and parents' employers did.
The only reasonable way to punish here is to punish parents AND employers, all while passing comprehensive immigration reform that includes a path for Dreamers to become legal residents.
For more than a decade now, Congress produces one comprehensive, bipartisan immigration bill after the other, and they all include the very strict conditions under which Dreamers can become temporary residents, permanent residents, and for some of them citizens, that today are included in DACA - simply because you can't ask a million young Americans to live in the shadows indefinitely just because Congress can't get its act together and prefers to play politics instead.
So it's absurd to now start playing with Dreamers' lives simply to try to force Democrats in Congress to give up parts of those previous bipartisan immigration reform bills that until today the majority of the American people keep supporting.
Trump is merely doing here what he tried in vain with HC: supporting what only a small minority of the American people want, and instead of engaging in tough negotiations, threatening to blow everything up, which of course doesn't work...
2
How absurd. The children aren't "illegal immigrants." Immigration is civil, not criminal, and the children lacked the required intent to commit any crime anyway.
Good you're not in charge, I guess.
Good you're not in charge, I guess.
4
Immigration policy isn't the purview of the executive branch. Congress needs to act on this.
16
And yet it was executive branch under Obama that created this mess. Where were you and others when he was violating the Constitution?
In addition to the parents not gaining citizenship I would not allow the DACA recipients have it either, At some point they all realized they were in violation of US law and should have rectified the situation before it came to this.
In addition to the parents not gaining citizenship I would not allow the DACA recipients have it either, At some point they all realized they were in violation of US law and should have rectified the situation before it came to this.
8
They were children. Interesting how Obama "violated the law" but you guys thought the Muslim ban order was just dandy. Congress has failed, without exception, to pass immigration reform. If you don't like the current situation, talk to your congressperson.
1
They can stop whining about rights they're not entitles too and begin the process of applying for citizenship. We are not saying they can't come/stay, but have some respect for the procedures of the country they claim to love so much and go through the proper channels.
Is this really so difficult and unacceptable? Follow the rules all another's are forced to?
Am I that off the mark?
Is this really so difficult and unacceptable? Follow the rules all another's are forced to?
Am I that off the mark?
22
I believe the Catch 22 is that because of their status (they are not legal permanent residents since their parents brought them to this country illegally), they cannot file for citizenship. As one DACA recipient said, I wanted to get in line, but there was no line for me to get into."
39
In light of trump's immigration policies -- including legal immigration -- it's a little disingenuous to say "We are not saying they can't come/stay." Plus there is the impact to the economy, which is more complicated than just an argument about rights and 'entitlements.'
Immigration policies are in dire need of reform. Punishing kids who have never known anything but the USA, and who have actively contributed to its prosperity, is not an answer, improvement or reform. It is just a thickheaded move that solves nothing.
Immigration policies are in dire need of reform. Punishing kids who have never known anything but the USA, and who have actively contributed to its prosperity, is not an answer, improvement or reform. It is just a thickheaded move that solves nothing.
174
Not so much the dreamers,they are really Americans now more so than anything else.I'd like to know where the parents of dreamers are,now that they are older and need health care we should be concentrating on deporting them.
3
It is time for prompt legislative action to regularize the status of DACA recipients. There is an opportunity for bi-partisan action on this issue if the Republican controlled Legislature is prepared to act.
22
Consider Canada, Dreamers. When the initial legislation failed in Congress, Canadian politicians were trying to figure out how to get the word out to Dreamers. "They're educated, English-speaking, assimilated, and ambitious? How do we get them?"
FYI, if you're a tech person, Canadian immigration has fast-tracked Silicon Valley tech people wanting to immigrate to Canada -- it takes as little as 1 week if you're skilled and have employee sponsorship.
FYI, if you're a tech person, Canadian immigration has fast-tracked Silicon Valley tech people wanting to immigrate to Canada -- it takes as little as 1 week if you're skilled and have employee sponsorship.
47
I am a US citizen and I am totally considering Canada.
I still remember that old Simpsons cartoon, where the kid said "where but in America (and maybe Canada) ... " - now it's only Canada.
I still remember that old Simpsons cartoon, where the kid said "where but in America (and maybe Canada) ... " - now it's only Canada.
1
If a parent brings children here illegally, the parent, not the children should be punished. Where are the parents?
20
The parents are probably working for minimum wage or less so that their children can stay here and become educated and employed by someone who will not report them and is taking advantage of their situation
21
Annie--their parents are the hard working human beings keeping our country economically relevant.
23
Wrong. The children of a bank robber should not be entitled to a share of the loot simply because they were not involved in the initial crime itself. DACA "children" (some are in their thirties) are in the US as a result of a criminal act and should be deported and apply for a green card like anyone else.
3
Listening to these young people in interviews has left me on their side. But this column is the sort of thing that might easily push one to the other side. Yes, the DT government and its various arms are fundamentally untrustworthy. I understand that. But there is not a word in this plaintive column about the solution that stares us all in the face. To wit, the GOP leadership in Congress and Democrats who will work with it need to get to work right away to enshrine the terms of DACA as law. Even when we are governed by such an unreasonable man, that solution seems utterly reasonable.
And Prof Cuison Villazor needs to learn to be constructive. As a teacher, she has young people looking up to her as a role model.
Of course, honoring laws by creating them goes hand in hand with enforcing them, too.
And Prof Cuison Villazor needs to learn to be constructive. As a teacher, she has young people looking up to her as a role model.
Of course, honoring laws by creating them goes hand in hand with enforcing them, too.
10
What should dreamers do? They should go back to the country of their citizenship with the education and skills they have gained in the US. I am also a "dreamer". Many kids came to the US with parents who worked in the US and stayed for years. Once the work visa is finished, they have to go home. I am one of them. So should I be entitled to stay because I lived in the US for 12 years of my childhood. I would have loved to stay but I couldn't. I had to go home. So should they. If anyone is to 'blame', it is the parents.
52
I lived and worked for 5 years in Sydney and returned to the US two years ago when my work permit expired. So at one level I understand what you are saying but let me open your eyes a little, you and I had a first world country to return too. These kids for the most part do not and the US and Australia are culturally very similar. Imagine if you had to return to country you have never stepped foot in and about the only thing about the culture you are familiar with is maybe the food. Kind of a false equivalency to compare yours and my experience to theirs.
2
You have retuned to an English speaking country. No drug violence and crime. Many in DACA speak only English. Their parents brought them here to keep them safe. This is their home. Why are you so mean spirited?
1
If you can go home - good for you - not everyone can. How would you feel if you were being forced to go home when you were fully expecting to stay?
1
It's interesting that those who assert strenuously that this should be country of strict laws readily tolerate illegal activity of the Trump syndicate. What hypocrisy!
174
Aw, Phil, you forgot Hillary's FOIA abuses with taxpayer-paid data, that was bigger than anything "Not Hillary" did. Please don't forget her "accomplishments" -- thanks!
2
They also totally ignore the patriotic American businesses that hire illegals in droves.
It is inconsistencies like this that lead one to realize its about racism.
It is inconsistencies like this that lead one to realize its about racism.
1
It is so very easy, isn't it, for those of us whose ancestors either arrived on these shores when there were few, if any, immigration laws to contend with, or who had the good fortune of hailing from one of the western European countries from which immigration was not restricted by quota, to cluck away about the "crimes" of the parents of Dreamers, who came here for the same reasons most other Americans' ancestors came: in search of a better life for themselves and their families. Meanwhile, I don't recall reading in any of the history books that any of the rest of our ancestors ever asked the native inhabitants of this land how they felt about unchecked European immigration. Just saying.
133
We legally allow 1 million immigrants to enter per year,the highest number in the entire world.
4
We didn't have laws about driving drunk in 1700 either. It's illegal now.
We didn't have immigration laws in 1700. We do now.
If you are so offended by the acts of your ancestors, simply go back to the country they emigrated from.
Oh wait. They won't take you back because THOSE countries all have immigration laws now.
We didn't have immigration laws in 1700. We do now.
If you are so offended by the acts of your ancestors, simply go back to the country they emigrated from.
Oh wait. They won't take you back because THOSE countries all have immigration laws now.
4
" I don't recall reading in any of the history books that any of the rest of our ancestors ever asked the native inhabitants of this land how they felt about unchecked European immigration."
Two of my Great Grandfathers bought thousands of acres of land from the Leni Lenape in New Jersey. Couldn't selling them land be said to be approval?
Two of my Great Grandfathers bought thousands of acres of land from the Leni Lenape in New Jersey. Couldn't selling them land be said to be approval?
3
As a legal immigrant, I am strongly against illegal immigrants (including DACA recipients) from getting ahead of the line towards citizenship. I just don't see a valid argument for illegals to be given priority or privilege (unrestrained work permits, where they can work for any employee/start business) when there is a significant backlog for legal immigrants.
67
Even if they were brought here as children? Besides, no one's putting them at the head of the line. We deferring deportation. The issues of childhood arrivals and the backlog of legal applications are two separate issues.
31
The government needs to solve the problems of the citizens followed by legal immigrants and then the illegals. The government runs on a budget and identifying and implementing a process to prevent deportation requires resource (money, time and men) that I believe has to be utilized for people who follow the law (legal immigrants).
Besides, why should illegals have the opportunity to pay in-state tuition, work for any company or start their own business when legal immigrants have restrictions ?
Besides, why should illegals have the opportunity to pay in-state tuition, work for any company or start their own business when legal immigrants have restrictions ?
21
If a pregnant woman is convicted of a crime and gives a birth to her child in jail, should that child suffer the same jail sentence as the mother? If there are statutes of limitation on other crimes, why isn't that afforded in this case? How many second generations of immigrants have you known to be able to go back to their parents' motherland and can cope with assimilating back? This is cruelty.
2
What a terribly argued Op-ED! You say, The White House claims that DACA, which President Barack Obama announced in 2012 and which has broad bipartisan support, is illegal, but deferred action is a widely accepted legal principle."
Huh? The issue is whether a President has executive authority to grant this sort of Defered action. The US Supreme Court split 4-4 last June with 8 members. In other words the issue is far from settled or a slam dunk. None of your arguments are relevant because didn't explore the issue of executive power.
Now before going further let me state my own personal views:
1) I believe it is vitally important both morally and practically for DREMERS to be able to stay. They did nothing wrong by coming here since children can't form the intent necessary to violate the law. They were children what were they supposed to do? Leave? ridiculous! Confess should act now!
2) I loathe President Trump and his hateful policies. He has acted in his 7 months in office irrationally and in a manner that shows him unfit for the job
However one can have a decent rational position( not that I think Trump does) that DACA violated Constiutional separation of Powers and that only Congress can protect Dreamers. You have failed to address this central issue. Shame on you!
Huh? The issue is whether a President has executive authority to grant this sort of Defered action. The US Supreme Court split 4-4 last June with 8 members. In other words the issue is far from settled or a slam dunk. None of your arguments are relevant because didn't explore the issue of executive power.
Now before going further let me state my own personal views:
1) I believe it is vitally important both morally and practically for DREMERS to be able to stay. They did nothing wrong by coming here since children can't form the intent necessary to violate the law. They were children what were they supposed to do? Leave? ridiculous! Confess should act now!
2) I loathe President Trump and his hateful policies. He has acted in his 7 months in office irrationally and in a manner that shows him unfit for the job
However one can have a decent rational position( not that I think Trump does) that DACA violated Constiutional separation of Powers and that only Congress can protect Dreamers. You have failed to address this central issue. Shame on you!
28
i am not aware of any precedent that would support a theory of entrapment has almost no relevance in the context of a civil removal action. Even governmental estoppel is unlikely to apply. The only answer is to enact legislative reform or impeach this President.
7
There is at least one case: Keathley v. Holder. It involved an immigrant who was found to have violated federal law by voting. The appeals court allowed an entrapment by estoppel defense, noting that the immigrant presented her Phillipine passport in order to obtain a driver's license. The state official processing the license application asked her if she wanted to vote, and she said yes. The state sent her a voter registration card and she voted in a federal election.
"Noting that entrapment by estoppel is more appropriately named “defense of official authorization,” the appeals panel explained that the defense is not limited to criminal proceedings, and Keathley can use it to show she did not violate section 611.
“Whether she has a good defense depends in part on facts that remain to be ascertained,” wrote Judge Easterbrook, noting that motor vehicle departments can register voters. 'A person who behaves with scrupulous honesty only to be misled by a state official should be as welcome in the country in 2012 as she was when she entered in 2004.'" From WisBar News, August 2012.
"Noting that entrapment by estoppel is more appropriately named “defense of official authorization,” the appeals panel explained that the defense is not limited to criminal proceedings, and Keathley can use it to show she did not violate section 611.
“Whether she has a good defense depends in part on facts that remain to be ascertained,” wrote Judge Easterbrook, noting that motor vehicle departments can register voters. 'A person who behaves with scrupulous honesty only to be misled by a state official should be as welcome in the country in 2012 as she was when she entered in 2004.'" From WisBar News, August 2012.
11
To Susan re Keathley v. Holder: THANK YOU for pointing out that case to us. Something I have been terrified of for 20 years, is individuals being found deportable for registering to vote, when the fault really was of overenthusiastic DMV employees, who may even have had incentives to register people as voters.
Even without voter registration, there are problems: Here in No. Carolina, back in the 1990's when licenses were available regardless of immigration status, I was told that some DMV employees were writing random numbers into the databases for Soc Sec numbers, simply because the computer programs required it. All those license applicants may be exposed to charges of fraud in the future. If they become eligible to become legal residents in the future, this can come back to hurt them.
Even without voter registration, there are problems: Here in No. Carolina, back in the 1990's when licenses were available regardless of immigration status, I was told that some DMV employees were writing random numbers into the databases for Soc Sec numbers, simply because the computer programs required it. All those license applicants may be exposed to charges of fraud in the future. If they become eligible to become legal residents in the future, this can come back to hurt them.
7
Are you a lawyer? If so what research have you done on the matter?
1
As citizens we are protected from prosecution from most of our past mistakes by the statute of limitations. Most of the readers here would be outraged if they were charged on some underage drinking they might have engaged in 20 years ago.
To my mind DACA is no different. Obama did the right thing when he instituted DACA, hopefully Congress will step up and do the right thing as well
To my mind DACA is no different. Obama did the right thing when he instituted DACA, hopefully Congress will step up and do the right thing as well
55
No Obama did the wrong thing. He imposed a unilateral executive action -instead of working with congress to pass a dream act. There was and is bilateral agreement on the basics of a dream act. The differences lie in the details. Obama pushed for every last piece that he wanted instead of compromising - and leaving thousands at the discretion of the executive branch instead of accepting a reasonable compromise to guarantee their permanent status. Unfortunately, Obama only compromises with fellow democrats and many young people now find themselves in this untenable position.
20
Dr, Obama, like almost every president from Eisenhower forward took unilateral action issuing an executive order over immigration enforcement. There was no compromise with anyone. He did it after the House under Ryan failed to even consider an immigration reform bill passed by the Senate.
31
My understanding is that President Obama did want to consult with Congress, but they would not deal with immigration reform. Obama did not do executive orders just because he felt like it.
26
"In fact, in some cases lawyers advised clients who were considering applying not to, precisely, they said, because the government couldn’t be trusted." One more nail in the coffin of democracy if DT rescinds DACA. The government gave assurances (under Obama), then takes them away (under DT.) This is how tin horn dictatorships operate, and this is how DT operates on a daily basis.
"Come on in from the rain kids, we've got blankets, and cookies, and warm milk fer ya."
"Come on in from the rain kids, we've got blankets, and cookies, and warm milk fer ya."
19
No it is not a nail in democracy (or more properly a republic). In a democratic republic the representative pass laws. Obama made an executive decree by one person. Had Obama worked with congress to pass a DREAM act those affected would have the benefit of rule of law. So sad to meet so many who believe democracy means a president who issues decrees I agree with rather than working with a representative legislature to pass laws.
17
There is a solution to this for one who has a genuine and good faith belief that Obamas action were not Constiutional ( which by the way is a very complicated issue and I suspect most including the President have not considered the real legal Issues at all):
1) Rescind the order and delay its enforcement
2) work with congress to do the only moral thing and pass DREAM act legislation
3) In any event, concede that it would be entrapment or at least immoral to allow use of any information provided by Dreamers to the government against them.
1) Rescind the order and delay its enforcement
2) work with congress to do the only moral thing and pass DREAM act legislation
3) In any event, concede that it would be entrapment or at least immoral to allow use of any information provided by Dreamers to the government against them.
8
Americans did hand out small pox infested blankets to native american women and children.
2
The parents of these 'dreamers' first act in this country was breaking the law. They knew they were breaking the law and putting their children in harms way. First, we'll have DACA, then some public relations firm will coin a cutesy name for the parents and argue for DAPA. Nope. We need e-verify to be the law and anyone found to employing someone who is not legal needs to pay hefty fines. As a legal immigrant to this country I find it infuriating that there is a debate about this. Get in line and get legal, that is the law. Take your American taxpayer paid education back to your original country, I'm sure it will be of great value there.
38
The Dreamers are paying taxes just like you and I do. They are not eligible for a lot of the tax benefits that you and I have. They are not getting "free" education and social network benefits, and, are in fact, benefitting the rest of us.
36
I thought the Dreamers were primarily students and you talk about them "paying taxes"?
7
HIgh school and college students often work, therefore are paying taxes.
6
Folks, we have got to get him out of there. He is destroying our nation. I am willing to put my taxes in an escrow account, but not willing to pay them at this time. How about if everyone does this? This is OUR country, not Trumps certainly and not a deaf republican congress. Join me. Lets take it back. By any means.
29
Nope average guy, Trump is trying to SAVE the nation by establishing the rule of law. The children brought to the US illegally need to be deported and get in line with everyone else if they want to live in America.
2
In other countries, rape victims are punished for losing their "purity".
And frequently, rape victims in America are "raped" again when they testify.
Whatever happened to mercy and empathy for the victims of crimes and giving them refuge? And if child or young woman is abducted for the sex slave trade and carried to another country, we don't hold them accountable, but rather the monsters that do this.
There's just a selfish meanness to Trump and these hard-core falsely named "Freedom Caucus". These children who were brought here illegally are, by their very own definition of their parents' acts, the victims of a crime. As victims, who had no choice in the matter, they should be treated as such, and offered the mercy, empathy and sanctuary here they deserve.
Now I don't see their parents as vicious criminals, like the sex traffickers are, and probably thought they were protecting and helping their children. But whether you are for going easy on illegal immigrants whose ONLY offense is entering the nation illegally, or for strictly and with draconian purpose, enforcing the law, you should be always for the children. I'll bet every single elected official who wants to deport these children is also self-described as "pro-life" Bah!
And frequently, rape victims in America are "raped" again when they testify.
Whatever happened to mercy and empathy for the victims of crimes and giving them refuge? And if child or young woman is abducted for the sex slave trade and carried to another country, we don't hold them accountable, but rather the monsters that do this.
There's just a selfish meanness to Trump and these hard-core falsely named "Freedom Caucus". These children who were brought here illegally are, by their very own definition of their parents' acts, the victims of a crime. As victims, who had no choice in the matter, they should be treated as such, and offered the mercy, empathy and sanctuary here they deserve.
Now I don't see their parents as vicious criminals, like the sex traffickers are, and probably thought they were protecting and helping their children. But whether you are for going easy on illegal immigrants whose ONLY offense is entering the nation illegally, or for strictly and with draconian purpose, enforcing the law, you should be always for the children. I'll bet every single elected official who wants to deport these children is also self-described as "pro-life" Bah!
28
Those caught in sex trafficking should apply for asylum. Separate rules exist for asylum. This is not an accurate comparison.
2
Keep the children-Deport the offenders
1
He's blaming it on the courts (he could let the legal challenges proceed and fight back as he did for his awful travel ban, but on this one...not so much) and punting it back to Congress. What a coward. The most sensible solution is to give the 800K a green card with a path toward citizenship and if it's such an issue with his base, close the door on more applicants to the program.
9
Here's Trump again swinging wildly at anything he can manage to hit. It might rev up his diehard supporters, but given the level of support for DACA, it can't end well for him or his party.
21
Donald Trump and his supporters want to take some of the smartest, hard working, tax paying people in this country -- the absolute best of America -- and deport them out of the only place they know as home. Trump's supporters say that if you expect to immigrate to American you need to follow the rules. Well, the Dreamers have followed the rules. They could not consent to come to America in the first place, but once here they did everything they were asked to do, just like every other legal immigrant applying for citizenship. We should be proud of them, honor them as the American ideal, but instead we try to affix on them our petty grievances and fear.
This is both disgusting and shortsighted. It shows, once again, that Trump's government can't be trusted to support the most vulnerable people in the country. It's shortsighted because I guarantee you won't find 800,000 "real Americans" who have the brains, work ethic, and determination that the Dreamers have. Sending them away -- not back, away -- will be a complete loss for American business, culture, and society.
This is both disgusting and shortsighted. It shows, once again, that Trump's government can't be trusted to support the most vulnerable people in the country. It's shortsighted because I guarantee you won't find 800,000 "real Americans" who have the brains, work ethic, and determination that the Dreamers have. Sending them away -- not back, away -- will be a complete loss for American business, culture, and society.
97
But what about Congress moving to legislate the same provisions that President Obama set out in this executive order?
4
That would be great but the failure of the Republican controlled congress to do it already is what lead to DACA in the first place. A few may express some compassion for the Dreamers, like Ryan did a few days ago, but will there be enough of them in Congress to finally pass some sort of immigration reform or amnesty like Reagan and Bush did? Starting to think compassion has become a bad word with the GOP.
1
"...some of the smartest, hard working, tax paying people in this country..."
More turn than you imagine. As an attorney, I have represented many undocumented ("ILLEGAL") immigrants. I have yet to meet one who wasn't proud to show his/her American income tax return -- unlike a certain President.
More turn than you imagine. As an attorney, I have represented many undocumented ("ILLEGAL") immigrants. I have yet to meet one who wasn't proud to show his/her American income tax return -- unlike a certain President.
Entrapment? They committed a crime. Getting details of their crime is not entrapment.
As to the argument that their parents committed the crime and they are innocent: If your father steals a car and then gives it to you, can you keep the stolen car? Fruits of illegal activity is poisonous.
As to the argument that their parents committed the crime and they are innocent: If your father steals a car and then gives it to you, can you keep the stolen car? Fruits of illegal activity is poisonous.
26
A stolen car is hardly the same thing. Were the five-and-six year olds supposed to travel alone back to the countries their parents fled from?
20
Neither unauthorized entry nor overstaying visas are crimes. They are both relatively minor civil violations.
Fled from? Economic migrants.
3
To the people who want to deport the DACA people. I understand your feelings but you must remember the US government has encouraged illegal immigration by not requiring residency status for employment and not penalizing employers who hire illegals. The need for cheap labor without benefits is the driving force for illegal immigration and it can only be ended when employers are penalized.
71
Good. Lets do that.
Its the vicious cruelty that gets me. Trump has now been President for 8 months and has played with these young people as a cat plays with a mouse. He talks about his great love for the Dreamers but leaves them hanging. Such a really nasty way to treat people who cant fight back. Now the cruellest of the all - giving a hopelessly divided Republican party 6 months to save them knowing that they wont, but twisting the knife for a little bit longer.
110
The original DREAM Act was first introduced more than 15 years ago by Sens, Durbin and Hatch, both of whom are still in office. It has been introduced many times, but was always rejected -- even when Democrats had control of both houses.
A law granting Green Card status to the Dreamers was ALWAYS a better idea than legalization by executive fiat, which is by its nature temporary.
Now is the time for speedy bipartisan support in Congress for a new DREAM Act that leads to permanent legal status and then U.S. Citizenship.
A law granting Green Card status to the Dreamers was ALWAYS a better idea than legalization by executive fiat, which is by its nature temporary.
Now is the time for speedy bipartisan support in Congress for a new DREAM Act that leads to permanent legal status and then U.S. Citizenship.
24
Yes, we should pass a DREAM act and get it done. That is the correct action - not continued undemocratic executive decrees. Time for congress to move and pass this bill.
Trump as usual is unnecessarily raking up this non issue to gin up his failing approval even among his own base.
But I doubt he will end it tomorrow because he may want to show that he has a "big heart". He may stop its renewal of permits under DACA for the time being and pass on the buck to congress and use it as tool for so called negotiations for reducing immigration and getting money for his wall.
But I doubt he will end it tomorrow because he may want to show that he has a "big heart". He may stop its renewal of permits under DACA for the time being and pass on the buck to congress and use it as tool for so called negotiations for reducing immigration and getting money for his wall.
7
Do the parents of DACA immigrants now get to automatically stay in the US too?
We should question rewarding illegal aliens with any form of citizenship because then the mass illegal immigration will most certainly continue. What a scam.
We should question rewarding illegal aliens with any form of citizenship because then the mass illegal immigration will most certainly continue. What a scam.
26
Obama tried to work out a way for the families to stay here, but that was rejected by the courts
1
Well to do liberals like to tell the average unemployed American that they need to get with the times and train for a 21st century job. Further, they should pack up and leave their roots, if need be, and go where the jobs are. Here's a similar dose of reality for the dreamers: it's your parents fault that you're stuck in the situation you're in, and not the fault of the USA. Time to face YOUR reality. Pack up and forge a career in your country of birth. If you want to be a citizen of the US, go home first and apply the legal way. I'm sure your guilt ridden parents and relatives would be happy to help.
28
DACA economically is a DRAIN on jobs for American Citizens. There is an estimated 800 THOUSAND DACA recipients in the US. That is 800 THOUSAND jobs American Citizens DON'T have. The MSM and Democrats would have you believe that all 800 thousand are not taking jobs Americans want (we've heard that speech for years). Wrong (this is another falsehood told to the American people..They're not all picking strawberries they take good Jobs. Good enough jobs to buy homes,put their kids through college. Now Democrats and illegal alien
activists admit DACA recipients have good jobs,are buying homes, paying taxes, etc.
The GOAL (Democrats just haven't figured this out yet) is for the AMERICAN CITIZENS to be employed, trained, sending their kid to college,buying homes and paying taxes. It's not the responsibility of the citizens of this country to support, pay for training, educate citizens from other country's. There is also the public safety concerns with illegal aliens including DACA recipients. The bottom line is there should be ZERO illegal aliens in our country. Deportation will save jobs and decrease the expense of illegal aliens.
Thank you President Trump! now with a stroke of his pen he will END Daca are create 800,000 new jobs for American citizens!...What a Concept!
activists admit DACA recipients have good jobs,are buying homes, paying taxes, etc.
The GOAL (Democrats just haven't figured this out yet) is for the AMERICAN CITIZENS to be employed, trained, sending their kid to college,buying homes and paying taxes. It's not the responsibility of the citizens of this country to support, pay for training, educate citizens from other country's. There is also the public safety concerns with illegal aliens including DACA recipients. The bottom line is there should be ZERO illegal aliens in our country. Deportation will save jobs and decrease the expense of illegal aliens.
Thank you President Trump! now with a stroke of his pen he will END Daca are create 800,000 new jobs for American citizens!...What a Concept!
24
The way to employ those who would like to work and have not found employment, is to evaluate their needs and determine what is needed to educate, train, and employ them. I believe there are all kinds of job possibilities and talented people who could fill such jobs if the effort was made. This is not a "make work" scheme or the creation of jobs from the past. We need to work with businesses and/or entrepeneurs on such programs instead of complaining.
3
The Dreamers were not brought to the US in order to steal jobs. They were children, and too young.
They are no more stealing jobs than are 800,000 kids who were born in the US.
The decline in theUS economy is the fault of a venal, predatory capitalist class and the greedy politicians in their pay, not the hard-working people who make the nation run, regardless of where they're from.
They are no more stealing jobs than are 800,000 kids who were born in the US.
The decline in theUS economy is the fault of a venal, predatory capitalist class and the greedy politicians in their pay, not the hard-working people who make the nation run, regardless of where they're from.
1
Wait ... why didn't native workers fill those jobs to begin with?
I find it reprehensible that some folks are defending Trump's cruelty. The DACA kids had an average age of 6 years old when they came to this country and are now faced with racist president who has not an empathic bone in his body. Some you can hide your cruelty behind talk of the law and couch your arguments in whataboutism but you stand with Trump.
32
Our country made a promise to these people. They paid a fee,filled out forms. Now we want to go back on those promises. What kind of country are we that we can't keep promises to young children?
20
The country makes a promise when the congress passes a law and the president signs it and the courts agree that the law does not violate the constitution (it doesn't mean that the justices agree the law is good or bad - just that it is in the realm of what the constitution allows). The paris climate accord was an Obama agreement - Obama did not send it to the senate to ratify as a US treaty because he knew the senate would not ratify it and it would fail. When Obama left office it was up to the whims of the new president to continue or discontinue the agreement. DACA likewise was an Obama promise, not a US promise. A US promise would have been passage of a DREAM Act and signature by Obama. I still hope for a DREAM to be enacted. I agree it should be. I do not believe presidential whims amount to binding promises. (I wonder why the NY Times has never reported about the likely victories Canada and Mexico would have in US courts if Trump were to actually attempt to unilaterally end NAFTA - as NAFTA was ratified and therefore unlike the paris climate accord is binding. I guess they have too much to do reporting about the other absurdities Trump does - but that doesn't change rule of law).
5
Obama made a promise that was illegal.He had the Senate and the House for his first term but did not do anything about reform.To take care of the Dreamers he would had to offer secure borders.Even now the Dems are unwilling to say WE WANT SAFE AND SECURE BORDERS.
Now as far as the Dreamers go I believe that most of them should be able to stay , the mechanism by which they are allowed to stay needs to be crafted by congress.I have questions about the few who have a criminal records,drunken driving,selling drugs needs to be evaluated.What about their parents and other relatives will they get preferential treatment over those who waited for years to get a green card in their home country.
Now as far as the Dreamers go I believe that most of them should be able to stay , the mechanism by which they are allowed to stay needs to be crafted by congress.I have questions about the few who have a criminal records,drunken driving,selling drugs needs to be evaluated.What about their parents and other relatives will they get preferential treatment over those who waited for years to get a green card in their home country.
8
Wrong. Obama made a promise, when it was the job of Congress to decide. So this is on him.
4
Since a number of commenter want to play by the Rule of Law; start with every employer hiring undocumented workers; They don't know? "The Illegals use phony social security numbers?" All very easy to check. Of course this will never happen; hasn't happened in 60+ years. Big Construction and Ag Lobbies will never allow it to be. Out here on the West Coast- Republican legislators and Ag interests (who vote GOP at 100%) have the nerve to whine about their crops lying dead in the fields and on the trees because White folks WON'T show up; WON'T go to job fairs for farm work; WON'T budge even when the hourly wage is more than they would get at Walmart.
Throw Jeff Sessions in Jail for lying under oath; oops- he "misspoke". Throw Jared Kushner in jail for numerous felony "omissions" on his mandatory disclosures. But; let us deport individuals who were children (and people- they aren't all from Mexico) who were brought here from such diverse places as Mexico and European nations: Is that what you Really want?
While we're at this law-is-the-law "thing"- let us stop referring to White-skin Heroin Junkies as "Opioid" addicts and throw them into prison too- along with the hundreds of thousands of Brown Bodies who were addicted to Crack: Fair is fair; the law-is-the-law. Right?
Throw Jeff Sessions in Jail for lying under oath; oops- he "misspoke". Throw Jared Kushner in jail for numerous felony "omissions" on his mandatory disclosures. But; let us deport individuals who were children (and people- they aren't all from Mexico) who were brought here from such diverse places as Mexico and European nations: Is that what you Really want?
While we're at this law-is-the-law "thing"- let us stop referring to White-skin Heroin Junkies as "Opioid" addicts and throw them into prison too- along with the hundreds of thousands of Brown Bodies who were addicted to Crack: Fair is fair; the law-is-the-law. Right?
26
Excellent idea. Rescind DACA entirely, and go after the employers of illegal aliens as well!
3
The beauty of our system of government is that citizens can band together and push for whatever policy they want in regards to immigration- legal and illegal.
I am very sorry to hear about all the sad stories.
Sadly our systems does not give people with a big heart more votes than mean people. It does not reward those with good beliefs with more political power. It does not disenfranchise people who think bad thoughts.
I suspect that many citizens are applauding this not because they dislike the dreamers but because they are tired of having immigration policy dictated by non-citizens who have broken the law and a fringe minority of citizens who think the US should support every human being on the planet.
I am very sorry to hear about all the sad stories.
Sadly our systems does not give people with a big heart more votes than mean people. It does not reward those with good beliefs with more political power. It does not disenfranchise people who think bad thoughts.
I suspect that many citizens are applauding this not because they dislike the dreamers but because they are tired of having immigration policy dictated by non-citizens who have broken the law and a fringe minority of citizens who think the US should support every human being on the planet.
22
800 thousand Dreamers are a long, long way from being "every human being on the planet."
Don't leave it to the GOP, which just voted overwhelmingly to cut off medical care to fellow Americans.
They will be no less cruel to the innocent children of immigrants.
A warped bunch of malicious thugs.
They will be no less cruel to the innocent children of immigrants.
A warped bunch of malicious thugs.
19
This is nasty and vicious.
What a White House!
What a White House!
10
There is no decision too cruel and stupid for Trump as long as it appeals to his vulgar base of white supremacists. The Dreamers are exactly the kind of people whom Americans should embrace as fellow citizens. You don't want them? Do them and us a favor. Send them to Canada.
24
This is all on Obama. He took an oath to uphold the Constitution and to enforce its laws. Instead of working to change the law, he took out a pen and signed a piece of aper that authorized immigration officials to ignore the law. Now we have a President who takes his oath seriously and he looks like the bad guy for enforcing the laws. Sorry. DACA was on the ballot. Remember? The Hispanics were supposed to push Hillary over the top. Well, that never happened because they resent the illegals just as mush as the native Americans. They lower wages for all working Americans. They don't pay taxes. They have to go.
15
The Dreamers are just as American as you are.
And they all pay taxes.
And they all pay taxes.
They DO pay taxes.
And they don't lower wages. I have a friend who owns a restaurant. He advertised for dishwashers. Guess what? He told me that not ONE Caucasian person applied for the job. Why is that? So, the jobs were taken by hard working people of color. It doesn't appear that any Caucasians were harmed.
And they don't lower wages. I have a friend who owns a restaurant. He advertised for dishwashers. Guess what? He told me that not ONE Caucasian person applied for the job. Why is that? So, the jobs were taken by hard working people of color. It doesn't appear that any Caucasians were harmed.
2
Three million more Americans knew Hillary would make a better president! Sad that any Hispanic voted for him. But then many people voted against their best interests when they chose Trump.. some of you are just starting to realize it. Sad. At lest get your facts correct..Many are paying taxes. No extra government hand outs.
So deporting 800,000 kids, many of whom have never known another country except for the U.S, will help solve America's problems? I don't think so.
These kids did not break any laws when they first entered the country because they were minors and they can not be held liable for the illegal conducts of their parents either.
These kids did not break any laws when they first entered the country because they were minors and they can not be held liable for the illegal conducts of their parents either.
32
Of course Trump is looking at DACA with heart; his black one.
16
live by exex. action die by exex action
11
In response to Rose Villazor's article, "What do dreamers do now?", I answer they live in Mexico with their families, including the parent or parents who live here illegally and must return with them. Maybe the six months should be the time they are given to leave before they would be removed. Mexico must stop being a tax haven and pay for their social needs, in order to avoid these protests moving there, instead of here. We should not be enabling Mexico to continue to be an irresponsible state, although Mexico prefers to call itself "not generous".
As far as living here "all their lives," they clearly did not, and some came at an age of some moral responsibility. "Inhumane?" Let us not get carried away: Torturing living beings is inhumane, not teaching someone to be law-abiding. They would not be in jail or fined, still less abused or even deprived of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, just rehomed back to where their grandparents probably live. Their families would be united again, and Mexico, not able to continue fleecing America, would provide for them. It has healthy upper and middle classes that currently pay no income tax, even though there is a 10% flat rate that is almost never collected. I guess the government works on corporate tax and graft. The question should be, "Why are we paying more in taxes so Mexico can afford to be a tax haven?"
I mostly agree with Allan H.
Thanx for reading.
As far as living here "all their lives," they clearly did not, and some came at an age of some moral responsibility. "Inhumane?" Let us not get carried away: Torturing living beings is inhumane, not teaching someone to be law-abiding. They would not be in jail or fined, still less abused or even deprived of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, just rehomed back to where their grandparents probably live. Their families would be united again, and Mexico, not able to continue fleecing America, would provide for them. It has healthy upper and middle classes that currently pay no income tax, even though there is a 10% flat rate that is almost never collected. I guess the government works on corporate tax and graft. The question should be, "Why are we paying more in taxes so Mexico can afford to be a tax haven?"
I mostly agree with Allan H.
Thanx for reading.
17
DACA applies to those who were brought into this country illegally by their parents when they were MINORS. By definition, they bear no responsibility for that decision.
13
@Judy Pasadena
"They would not be in jail or fined, still less abused or even deprived of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, just rehomed back to where their grandparents probably live. Their families would be united again"
A few facts to consider in relation to your comments, a rosy vision in large part as undocumented as the young people you rail against.
* The average age at which DACA children were brought to this country by their parents is 6 -- hardly an age of "some moral responsibility" at least in re: immigration laws.
* Not all of these children or their families came from Mexico (which, in most people's minds, could hardly be considered a "tax haven" compared to the US, where a billionaire real estate developer can legally pay no taxes for at least 16 years and still be elected to the Presidency.)
*Some, if deported would, in your Orwellian term, be "rehomed" to places where their grandparents may have been "disappeared" or slaughtered. Think of places farther from Pasadena, like Somalia or Rwanda, China, Egypt, El Salvador, Venezuela -- places where tribal or civil war, persecution of religious minorities, political unrest, despotism, financial collapse, etc may have driven people to flee
Just because POTUS can't see beyond our Southern border or the wall he aims to build doesn't mean the rest of us can't.
"They would not be in jail or fined, still less abused or even deprived of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness, just rehomed back to where their grandparents probably live. Their families would be united again"
A few facts to consider in relation to your comments, a rosy vision in large part as undocumented as the young people you rail against.
* The average age at which DACA children were brought to this country by their parents is 6 -- hardly an age of "some moral responsibility" at least in re: immigration laws.
* Not all of these children or their families came from Mexico (which, in most people's minds, could hardly be considered a "tax haven" compared to the US, where a billionaire real estate developer can legally pay no taxes for at least 16 years and still be elected to the Presidency.)
*Some, if deported would, in your Orwellian term, be "rehomed" to places where their grandparents may have been "disappeared" or slaughtered. Think of places farther from Pasadena, like Somalia or Rwanda, China, Egypt, El Salvador, Venezuela -- places where tribal or civil war, persecution of religious minorities, political unrest, despotism, financial collapse, etc may have driven people to flee
Just because POTUS can't see beyond our Southern border or the wall he aims to build doesn't mean the rest of us can't.
3
This comment does not seem based on an understanding of these people as people, but rather treats them as scapegoats. There is not always some happy family back in the other country that they can go back to. The Dreamers grew up in America. The United States is their home. Some of these people are in their 30s and have no connections to the country their parents came from. Some of them were never even told that their parents were undocumented while growing up.
2
I think the misinformed people who oppose DACA must not know any of the great kids this impacts. They have broken no criminal law, they have played by the rules as the rules were revealed to them. Many never knew they weren't citizens until it was time to apply to college or for a job. They paid the required fee, surrendered their information and have done their best to contribute to their (our) society. If we deport the participants in the DACA program we would be sending kids to countries they have no memory of, we would be deporting, among others, doctors, medical researchers, lawyers, computer experts and many others this country benefits having in our economy.
The clean up of Texas is beginning but with out undocumented workers, including some DACA students that recovery will crawl. We should give citizenship to DACA students and those who help rebuild our country after this national disaster, and those who serve in our military. Get on the right side of history and stand with the DACA students.
The clean up of Texas is beginning but with out undocumented workers, including some DACA students that recovery will crawl. We should give citizenship to DACA students and those who help rebuild our country after this national disaster, and those who serve in our military. Get on the right side of history and stand with the DACA students.
24
DACA should be allowed to stay. It's not their fault.
13
It's not ours either. It's also not our problem. No one promised them anything and no one owes them anything.
11
We all owe all children the best possible life and future.
Every child is everyone's responsibility.
Every child is everyone's responsibility.
1
DACA was not the law of the land. It was discretion by the executive branch. Well there is a different executive now. I do not think that the "Dreamers" would be my first priority to deport but they certainly shouldn't get any sort of protection from deportation__unless__Congress writes law saying so.
Giving illegal aliens, no matter how much their story tugs at some people's heart strings, work permits is wrong. It just incentivizes more illegal immigration.
I didn't vote for Trump. But his instincts regarding illegal immigration are closer to reality than the knee-jerk "no deportation/open borders" attitude among some progressives. There is no other country in the world that takes in more immigrants than the US. And there are few countries that would tolerate foreign nationals marching around waving foreign flags talking about what THEY aren't going to tolerate.
This unwillingness to admit that the US has borders and that illegals should be deported is a big part of the reason that Trump won.
If we don't want Trump making law via executive order on taxes or civil rights (and I don't) then we must be against Obama doing the same thing. Just because Congress won't do what a President wants doesn't give the President the right to legislate.
Giving illegal aliens, no matter how much their story tugs at some people's heart strings, work permits is wrong. It just incentivizes more illegal immigration.
I didn't vote for Trump. But his instincts regarding illegal immigration are closer to reality than the knee-jerk "no deportation/open borders" attitude among some progressives. There is no other country in the world that takes in more immigrants than the US. And there are few countries that would tolerate foreign nationals marching around waving foreign flags talking about what THEY aren't going to tolerate.
This unwillingness to admit that the US has borders and that illegals should be deported is a big part of the reason that Trump won.
If we don't want Trump making law via executive order on taxes or civil rights (and I don't) then we must be against Obama doing the same thing. Just because Congress won't do what a President wants doesn't give the President the right to legislate.
33
I don't believe that the US has more immigrants than any other country. What is the evidence?
"No deportation/open borders" is not a progressive platform.
However, saying so is the platform of the right wing media establishment.
However, saying so is the platform of the right wing media establishment.
1
Walter..silly me I must have misread those signs stating "Not one more deportation"
Yes, this person is a right-winger..NOT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/02/open-borders_n_5737722.html
Yes, this person is a right-winger..NOT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/02/open-borders_n_5737722.html
2
This is a problem that Congress has to solve. Trump is simply giving it to the Congress to solve.
12
Agreed. Congress should legislate immigration laws. However, Trump is not merely giving it to congress to solve. He could lead the arguments. Unfortunately, as with Health care, taxes and most everything else, he is devoid of ideas and is passing the buck.
The word "cruelty" doesn't quite capture the evil that our loathsome president is about to perpetrate.
Let's just pack up a room full of supposed Americans and dump them in some foreign country, tell them they were really born there and that they shouldn't consider themselves American and if they disagree well, let them prove it from over there. To make it still more realistic let's have the backlogged US immigration service lose all their paperwork for a couple of years...
What does it take to understand the evil of this administration. Americans are reviled everywhere and for good cause.
Let's just pack up a room full of supposed Americans and dump them in some foreign country, tell them they were really born there and that they shouldn't consider themselves American and if they disagree well, let them prove it from over there. To make it still more realistic let's have the backlogged US immigration service lose all their paperwork for a couple of years...
What does it take to understand the evil of this administration. Americans are reviled everywhere and for good cause.
22
If those folks WERE really born in that foreign country....then they belong there.
It's really THAT simple.
I was born here, to parents who were US citizens by birth -- and all four of my grandparents immigrated here LEGALLY and I have their immigration & naturalization papers to prove it!!!!
It's really THAT simple.
I was born here, to parents who were US citizens by birth -- and all four of my grandparents immigrated here LEGALLY and I have their immigration & naturalization papers to prove it!!!!
3
Dreamer need to explain well and not just complain well.
===========================================
Trump achieved his election win by twiddling his thumps on his cell phone. Hillary never caught on. My fear is that the dreamers have not found simplistic explanations, to begin with. Thus, the public is clueless and indifferent.
Einstein said:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
===================================================
===========================================
Trump achieved his election win by twiddling his thumps on his cell phone. Hillary never caught on. My fear is that the dreamers have not found simplistic explanations, to begin with. Thus, the public is clueless and indifferent.
Einstein said:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
===================================================
3
The most sensible thing to do is to immediately deport all illegal aliens from our country. It just makes good sense.
15
if your view is correct, then one could logically argue that all inhabitants of the United States that are not descendants of indigenous peoples (usually called Indians or native Americans) should be immediately deported. Right?
17
Taking 800,000 people out of the economy doesn't make sense, let alone 10-12 million.
Who's going to fill their jobs? who's going to buy their homes? Who's going to make up for the lost tax revenue?
I just can't see where it makes any sense, let alone good sense.
Who's going to fill their jobs? who's going to buy their homes? Who's going to make up for the lost tax revenue?
I just can't see where it makes any sense, let alone good sense.
10
No, because there was no such thing as "the United States" or "America" prior to the arrival of the Europeans, therefore none of us are here illegally. The Native Americans had no concept of nations or borders, at least in the modern sense. They were tribes.
2
According to Trump the entire reason for doing away with daca is because he made a promise to his rabid base. So in order to play his particularly nasty brand of politics he will destroy hundreds of thousands of people. There is nothing noble about what he is doing. It is just ugly nationalism that will hurt the country.
20
It is time for DACA illegal aliens and their families to go back to their nation of origin. They are NOT WELCOME in the United States of America. NO AMNESTY.
17
I have always expected information provided by DACA registered participants would be used against them for prompt location and deportation action. As this piece points out, such behaviour would violate assurances given by the U.S. Government, and would constitute an offensive breach of faith repellent to law. However, looking at all the other reprehensible breaches of faith, such reprehensible action would hardly be a novelty. Bad faith by the United States government is now so ubiquitous that it is a source of national shame to its citizens.
18
If you entered the country illegally, out you go, no ifs ands or buts.
If a man brings his minor children to a bank robbery should the children be allowed to keep the money while the father is put into jail?
If a man brings his children to trespass or squat another's rightfully owned property should the children be allowed to remain while the man is evicted and perhaps put into jail?
What a perverse sense of logic those that support DACA have.
If a man brings his minor children to a bank robbery should the children be allowed to keep the money while the father is put into jail?
If a man brings his children to trespass or squat another's rightfully owned property should the children be allowed to remain while the man is evicted and perhaps put into jail?
What a perverse sense of logic those that support DACA have.
23
McCarthyism!
1
Your analogies are false.
The Dreamers are not stealing anything. Those old enough to leave school are working and paying taxes.
They aren't squatting on anyone else's land. Their parents and they paid to buy or rent their homes.
They are no different ftom you, except perhaps a little more compassionate.
The Dreamers are not stealing anything. Those old enough to leave school are working and paying taxes.
They aren't squatting on anyone else's land. Their parents and they paid to buy or rent their homes.
They are no different ftom you, except perhaps a little more compassionate.
1
When you strip away the sentimentality you're left with the fact that we're talking about unauthorized foreign nationals who were smuggled in past the long line of diligent, honest aspiring immigrants. And most of these "dreamers" are adults now. Sending them home will be an emotional experience for sure but not tantamount to genocide as some suggest. They will have to re-adjust to their home countries and and it will take time but adjust they must. If we treat these foreign nationals like their so-called "anchor baby" cousins then we are effectively saying no one can be deported and that our immigration laws are toothless.
23
Our dear president revels in cruelty.
22
Trump besides not having a heart or compassion is only doing it because he is trying to destroy everything good that Obama has done for the country. Nothing he does if for the betterment of the American people, it's all the betterment of himself and his family. Make him show his tax return. Then maybe we can throw him out of office.
17
In the past several weeks, President Donald Trump has announced his intent to reduce the number of visas available for legal immigration into the US, require interviews for spouses of US citizens before they can get a green card, and refused to accept white supremacists. In addition, the conclusive history that immigration law is intended to exclude people was considered "undesirable" because of race, religion, or ethnicity.
The author makes some great points about the consequences for nearly a million people who have taken advantage of the program. But we need to stay focused on comprehensive immigration reform that removes historic discriminatory barriers.
All in all, I agree with the gist of the DACA program and its impact on the illegal immigrant population. It is a fair way of giving illegal immigrants to a start new, free lives. the renewing period are quite reasonable. One in the shoes of these illegal immigrants can understand that it is difficult to live in America. They have left their countries to survive and live better lives. War, security, finance, and tyranny are one of the many reasons they left. Therefore, it is fair to give them a chance.
The author makes some great points about the consequences for nearly a million people who have taken advantage of the program. But we need to stay focused on comprehensive immigration reform that removes historic discriminatory barriers.
All in all, I agree with the gist of the DACA program and its impact on the illegal immigrant population. It is a fair way of giving illegal immigrants to a start new, free lives. the renewing period are quite reasonable. One in the shoes of these illegal immigrants can understand that it is difficult to live in America. They have left their countries to survive and live better lives. War, security, finance, and tyranny are one of the many reasons they left. Therefore, it is fair to give them a chance.
4
The US is full up. We have 330 million people. Our air is polluted -- our water polluted -- our highways overcrowded -- in states like yours, housing costs are so high only the rich can afford to own homes.
Our schools are overcrowded -- we owe $22 TRILLION in debts -- so no, we can't take in ANY MORE immigrants.
The illegals must be deported, and the number of immigrants admitted reduced by half if not more.
Our schools are overcrowded -- we owe $22 TRILLION in debts -- so no, we can't take in ANY MORE immigrants.
The illegals must be deported, and the number of immigrants admitted reduced by half if not more.
4
I find it incredible that anyone could believe these young people who have lived here all their lives, ALL THEIR LIVES, should not be protected from deportation. They had absolutely no say at all in coming here. What kind of monster wants to hurt innocent people in this way? It is inhumane and evil. To what end?
38
No Phoebe, They have NOT lived here their entire lives nor were they (or their parents) born here.
4
These dreamers very well may have been put through the public school system and received federal financial aid for college. They very well may be high functioning, educated men and women now paying taxes and creating jobs for other people. We are going to kick them out now after the American taxpayer has invested in them? Doesn't make much sense to do it now. Not to even mention the implications of tearing apart a family.
25
The "American taxpayer" did not invest in them of their own volition.
20
The Dreamers themselves are American taxpayers.
1
Most are nothing of the sort. A twenty-five year old Mexican can also survive without a parent.
1
I don't believe anyone, including Trump supporters, would think that Trump would not consider using information that was promised to be kept private.
He's proven time and again his word is useless. Especially when it comes to identity politics.
He's proven time and again his word is useless. Especially when it comes to identity politics.
9
There is something about a law professor aggressively advocating for lawlessness. I personally think that someone truly brought here under 10 year old should be given a green card but no citizenship for 30 years. But the problem is that Obama, attractive as he looks these days compared to Trump, was himself lawless.
Obama literally disregarded law on immigration and lacked the personal skills to persuade, so he, oddly enough, more than Trump, exercised extreme executive power.
Trump is right (for once) to under an unlawful order and to let Congress decide. Congress decides who becoems citizens, not illegal immigrants.
The law professor writes about the Immigration Act of '65. That is the law that brought our hispanic population from 5% to more than 21% (including illegals). No country in the last 150 years has come close to that extreme a change in its demography, which is why so many Americans -- not racists -- are content to finally see our laws and sovereignty respected.
Obama literally disregarded law on immigration and lacked the personal skills to persuade, so he, oddly enough, more than Trump, exercised extreme executive power.
Trump is right (for once) to under an unlawful order and to let Congress decide. Congress decides who becoems citizens, not illegal immigrants.
The law professor writes about the Immigration Act of '65. That is the law that brought our hispanic population from 5% to more than 21% (including illegals). No country in the last 150 years has come close to that extreme a change in its demography, which is why so many Americans -- not racists -- are content to finally see our laws and sovereignty respected.
18
The Dreamers' last hope may be that the Republican party may develop a conscience that offsets the mean-spirited world view of the president. If Orrin Hatch and even Paul Ryan are urging the president not to scrap the DACA program.
The president claims to love the Dreamers which is absolutely not true. He wants them out of the country as do his supporters. He has used the sorrow and suffering of families who were victimized by criminal illegals. He has never differentiated between young children who were brought here by their undocumented parents and gang members who slithered across the border to do harm to American citizens. These thugs aren't trying to escape their war-torn countries, they're the rotten underbelly of their own societies.
America is the only country that the Dreamers know and call home. It would be a shame to let them suffer because of the sins of their fathers and mothers.
The president claims to love the Dreamers which is absolutely not true. He wants them out of the country as do his supporters. He has used the sorrow and suffering of families who were victimized by criminal illegals. He has never differentiated between young children who were brought here by their undocumented parents and gang members who slithered across the border to do harm to American citizens. These thugs aren't trying to escape their war-torn countries, they're the rotten underbelly of their own societies.
America is the only country that the Dreamers know and call home. It would be a shame to let them suffer because of the sins of their fathers and mothers.
6
They already HAVE a country.
They can now return to that country.
God bless our President Trump!
They can now return to that country.
God bless our President Trump!
13
God will certainly not bless Trump for destroying families and ruining people's lives.
1
It's a sad business all around. Some think that Dreamers are a burden to the nation, when in reality they are hard-working and dream only of contributing to this country.
9
The the term "Dreamers" is insipid. Why not involuntary immigrants? This is a more accurate description.
12
So so has anyone ever researched how many of our relatives entered Ellis Island and registered with false names, altered names and possibly evaded the registration altogether? Names changes for religious persecution purposes was common. How many of OUR relatives possibly were here illegally? How was this registry interconnected with immigration laws at the time? I wonder how many of YOU who believe these kids do not belong here, how many of YOU may be illegals also. Has anyone researched just how many of our relatives came here and were they all legally here, registered with the government, legislation written to provide citizenship? How cruel to send these dreamers away from the ONLY country they know, the country they believe in, the country they belong too. We all need to look into our own closets possibly!
13
Speak for yourself. Not everyone came thru Ellis Island. Not everyone is descended from immigrants. And I think you would agree that what made sense for the country in 1910 might not be the wisest policy in 2017. Times change.
10
Some of my ancestors have been on this continent since the early 1600s. At least one of them was probably brought against his will from West Africa in the 1700s. I have the records and the DNA testing that show it. I'm American by both birth and by ancestry. Anyone else who is born here or naturalized is a American, though I wonder if it's time to look at ending citizenship based on birth in the country. Growing up here alone doesn't give someone a legal right to stay and it doesn't make them American. Maybe those things will make it easier for them to obtain legal residency when Congress acts.
7
Ellis Island migrants were carefully screened before being allowed to set foot here.
7
Go to Canada, a country that has not gone insane like the US and respects humanity.
14
Except Canada wouldn't let them in, because unlike us they have very strict immigration policies.
7
Nonsense.
The US has very strict immigration policies. That's the basis for the cruel decision Trump is making.
And while it's not completely relevant to this issue, Canada has a far more liberal system for taking in refugees than the US has.
The US has very strict immigration policies. That's the basis for the cruel decision Trump is making.
And while it's not completely relevant to this issue, Canada has a far more liberal system for taking in refugees than the US has.
1
Yeah, good luck with that.
3
Heart breaking...
5
Only Liberals could conjure up sigh a high-sounding moniker, "Dreamers", to camouflage the illegal conduct of those who have broken our laws to be here.
The inscription on the Statue of Liberty says: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
It does not invite them to...
--sneak into our country to steal jobs and resources from legal citizens.
--fill up our prisons with their drug dealers, smugglers, murderers and thieves.
--fill up our schools with their children smuggled along.
--fill up our hospitals with their sick and injured
--sign up for benefits intended for OUR CITIZENS.--and then they hand us the bill for all of it.
"Dreamers", indeed. We should deport them all immediately--and as they cross the border, hand them a calling card: "Don't blame Trump--Blame Your Parents. They Broke the Law to Bring You Here".
The inscription on the Statue of Liberty says: “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
It does not invite them to...
--sneak into our country to steal jobs and resources from legal citizens.
--fill up our prisons with their drug dealers, smugglers, murderers and thieves.
--fill up our schools with their children smuggled along.
--fill up our hospitals with their sick and injured
--sign up for benefits intended for OUR CITIZENS.--and then they hand us the bill for all of it.
"Dreamers", indeed. We should deport them all immediately--and as they cross the border, hand them a calling card: "Don't blame Trump--Blame Your Parents. They Broke the Law to Bring You Here".
21
The Dreamers are not becoming drug dealers and the other criminals listed above. They are not taking welfare; in fact they are earning their keep and paying taxes that we, not they, are benefitting from. I believe that, in addition to the positive things they are doing, they should be put on a path to citizenship which would require certain financial and other contributions.
7
Surely Joan Staples they are ALL perfect and studying to become rocket surgeons.
2
These people are here illegally. DACA does not change their illegal status to legal. They are still illegal aliens.
Their parents broke the law to bring them here and broke the law by staying here and working "off the books" Sure everyone wants to do something for "dreamers" but I don't think that should allow them to gain citizenship ahead of all the people from other countries who wait years to get a visa. Even if they did not know at 2 years old that their parents broke the law, they surely knew by the time they go to High School.
I don't think that we should reward the dreamers and by extension their parents by allowing them to gain citizenship or stay here without some sort of penalty. At the least these lawbreakers should not be rewarded with citizenship. What ever law Congress eventually comes up with, that law must make clear that there will be no legal DACA for other children. DACA must be a one time amnesty - and yes we are having another amnesty, which back in 1986 we were promised would never happen again.
If a nation cannot protect its border, it will soon cease to be a nation. And these recipients of an illegal EO must pay a large fine. Remember amnesty ensures that another horde of illegals will cross our porous borders and try and wait it out till the next amnesty rolls around. DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN. E-VERIFY must be made a universal requirement so that future illegal aliens can be caught and deported.
Their parents broke the law to bring them here and broke the law by staying here and working "off the books" Sure everyone wants to do something for "dreamers" but I don't think that should allow them to gain citizenship ahead of all the people from other countries who wait years to get a visa. Even if they did not know at 2 years old that their parents broke the law, they surely knew by the time they go to High School.
I don't think that we should reward the dreamers and by extension their parents by allowing them to gain citizenship or stay here without some sort of penalty. At the least these lawbreakers should not be rewarded with citizenship. What ever law Congress eventually comes up with, that law must make clear that there will be no legal DACA for other children. DACA must be a one time amnesty - and yes we are having another amnesty, which back in 1986 we were promised would never happen again.
If a nation cannot protect its border, it will soon cease to be a nation. And these recipients of an illegal EO must pay a large fine. Remember amnesty ensures that another horde of illegals will cross our porous borders and try and wait it out till the next amnesty rolls around. DON'T LET THAT HAPPEN. E-VERIFY must be made a universal requirement so that future illegal aliens can be caught and deported.
19
The congress in this country and executive branch haven't dared to rub a huge racist strain in the US the wrong way. So there has been no pathway to citizenship since 1997 - forcing most who are here to be here illegally. In 2012 DACA was passed and allowed the CHILDREN of immigrants who registered the promise of possible path to citizenship. Now instead the government is turning on them - along with the angry racist crowd. I was heartened today after listening to an NPR report that the vast majority of people are in support of the DACA designees getting a path to citizenship. This will keep any congressional support in line with their voters - just as it did with the Health care bill. If we have to go to more protest marches and more town halls - so be it.
7
No, DACA was not passed in 2012. Passed implies Congressional passage of legislation. DACA was a unilateral executive order. Saturday Night Live predicted the illegal overreach of DACA in a School House Rock themed skit that helped show the difference between a law and an executive order. Anyone of Generation X age will remember School House Rock from growing up. The courts just struck down DAPA and will likely equally strike down DACA if the AG's proceed with their lawsuit this week. It is on Congress to decide whether they want to update our immigration law for today's realities or not.
BTW, I voted for President Obama in 2008 and 2012.
BTW, I voted for President Obama in 2008 and 2012.
16
Why not ask each Dreamer to obtain 10 U.S. citizen sponsors who will guarantee that the Dreamers do not end up relying on "the dole or entitlements" (or whatever heartless Republicans call it) or commit a crime for a set period of time. If the dreamer breaks these rules, then the sponsors must pay a fine commensurate with the cost of the "dole" or crime (by mandatory tax deduction from their payroll or social security).
9
Why stop there? Make it apply to all people, including multi generation Americans. They should have no problem finding sponsors who will guarantee that their little pride and joys will never rely on the 'dole' or commit any crimes.
6
I am very concerned about the government saying "Trust us" and then reneging on their promise. If they use the information given as part of the DACA program to deport these young people, no one will EVER be willing to trust the U.S. Government again. People without papers will go underground even more, making things worse for law enforcement. If Congress doesn't fix this, they (and Trump) will be guilty of making the situation much, much worse.
9
The children were brought here and had no choice. But, the parents willingly came here illegally.
Here is the Solomon like solution. Allow the grown up children to stay and have a path to citizenship. But, their parents who came illegally must go back to their home country and not be eligible to ever get citizenship or any relatives of the children.
Here is the Solomon like solution. Allow the grown up children to stay and have a path to citizenship. But, their parents who came illegally must go back to their home country and not be eligible to ever get citizenship or any relatives of the children.
5
What about their American born children?
2
The children of the children would be citizens
Prolonging the myth of magical citizenship through illegal entry via DACA is a recipe for disaster. We seem to forget the flood of children - turned irresponsibly loose by parents - over the past two year.
The idea that you will be welcomed with open arms as an illegal queue-jumper is a false promise.
And most of us have grown tired of the false promise that this will be a one-time blanket amnesty... until it is the next time.
The idea that you will be welcomed with open arms as an illegal queue-jumper is a false promise.
And most of us have grown tired of the false promise that this will be a one-time blanket amnesty... until it is the next time.
27
"Most of us" have not "grown tired" of anything.
Most of us want to allow the Dreamers to remain.
You don't speak for most of us at all.
Most of us want to allow the Dreamers to remain.
You don't speak for most of us at all.
1
What you call a "flood of children" has actually been not immigrants, but refugees from violence and death in Latin America.
2
DACA is the right thing to do; sunsetting is cowardly
7
How is it legal to punish people for crimes committed by their parents?
11
we did amnesty back in the 80s. this time build the wall, actual or electronic. control planned and organized anchor baby schemes. severe fines and jail for all employers who hire illegals.
then and only then have a conversation about DACA. we owe this to our own young folks who lack entry level jobs to even learn what work is.
then and only then have a conversation about DACA. we owe this to our own young folks who lack entry level jobs to even learn what work is.
18
Many of the comments here make me sad. They show no sympathy at all for people brought here as young children, who grew up here, have no ties to their parents' country and have never been there, don't speak that language, and for most of their lives had no idea that they were "illegal." I understand the political arguments and the rule-of-law arguments, but even in felony cases - which this is definitely not - there is room for mitigating circumstances and compassion.
27
DACA has no legal basis. The Democrats had the majority in the house and senate. Obama should have done it the right way. Executive action can be undone by the current President. The correct way would be to Trump to sunset DACA in 6 months. Let Congress do its part. The country can not be run only through political action. I personally support these young people to stay in the US, but the President has no authority to confer immigration benefits on a mass scale.
30
Reading the comments, it appears the Times readers have little confidence that Congress can turn out a bill that satisfactorily addresses the situation.
Presumably the vast majority of Congressional Democrats would vote for such a bill. And to hear the talking heads on the news shows, so would many, if not most, Republicans. So what is the objection to having Congress legislate, for a change? Let Congress take the credit, or blame, as the case may be, for whatever happens. Maybe it would be an ice breaker for some bipartisanship for a change.
Presumably the vast majority of Congressional Democrats would vote for such a bill. And to hear the talking heads on the news shows, so would many, if not most, Republicans. So what is the objection to having Congress legislate, for a change? Let Congress take the credit, or blame, as the case may be, for whatever happens. Maybe it would be an ice breaker for some bipartisanship for a change.
8
Not only that, it is the job of Congress. It is the President's job to execute the laws enacted by Congress. Saturday Night Live predicted the illegal overreach of the DACA Executive Order when it aired a DACA skit based on School House Rock. If Congress ultimately chooses not to act, as it did in 2007 when George W. Bush was ready to sign an immigration reform bill that included a legislative codification of DACA; and as it did in 2013, when Obama was ready to sign a similar bill, that is a choice being made by Congress.
12
Many republicans and some democrats would overload a bill to address the DACA situation with many of their favorite immigration wish list items.
Who knows what such a bill might end up looking like? Assuming that such a bill would be able to get a majority in congress is pie in the sky.
Who knows what such a bill might end up looking like? Assuming that such a bill would be able to get a majority in congress is pie in the sky.
3
Dreamers would be fools to believe in anything positive from this GOP regime. Trump is just a clown providing cover for their vehement anti-American actions and plans. Better that Dreamers assume they will will be hunted down and persecuted by GOP operatives until the country is rid of them (if ever). Sorry to deliver the news that you already know is true.
1
When Trump and Sessions reject all of your reasonable suggestions and start deporting people what are we going to do about it? In Anti-bellum Boston the enforcement of the fugitive slave act led to thousands of people on the streets protesting as a fellow Bostonian was sent back to the horror of slavery, will we do the same when it comes to these Americans as they are sent to nations where their lives can be lost.
14
Protest in the streets? Probably not, it has been happening for some months now.
2
It's insulting that you are comparing American slavery, to individuals who came to the U.S. willingly. Furthermore, "dreamers" who immigrated illegally to the U.S. with their parents, (if deported) will be in a very good position to impact change in their home nations, since most have vastly higher levels of education than those in their native countries...
9
The children did nothing illegal. They were not capable of choice at that young age.
People don't exist to serve a country. Countries are created to benefit the people.
The Dreamers work and pay taxes just like you. I doubt that you exist to "serve the country."
Everyone just tries to live their lives. And the Dreamers are as American as you are.
People don't exist to serve a country. Countries are created to benefit the people.
The Dreamers work and pay taxes just like you. I doubt that you exist to "serve the country."
Everyone just tries to live their lives. And the Dreamers are as American as you are.
1
So far I haven't seen anyone mentioning about the deterrence that needs to put in place so that illegal behavior won't be committed later. I agree that the children were brought here when they were small and didn't know they were illegal. But now they are adults and they should know. Have they paid a BIG fine before allowing to register for DACA? I guess NOT. So far DACA has always been rewarding illegal behavior. If there isn't any kind of deterrence, don't be surprised if the U.S. would be flooded with another wave of illegal immigrant as soon as this group of "DREAMERS" are granted legal residency.
26
Illegal behavior? Did you know there is no pathway to citizenship? Did you know that most of the dairy industry is staffed by illegal immigrants as is your fruits and vegetables as well as the hotel industry. Trumps treatment of all immigrants is already sending people fleeing for any border they can find.
4
To Observant who opines :"So far DACA has always been rewarding illegal behavior." Actually, you are mistaken. The dreamers' arrival lacked an essential element of criminal conduct - mens rea, or intent to engage in illegal activity. These were children whose "illegal" behavior was to go where their families took them. So much for the law.
Now, for common sense: Ending DACA, according to our brain-dead administration, will serve as a disincentive to the next wave of ten year olds just waiting to invade our country? Nuff said.
Finally, some self-interest (a Trump specialty after all): These young adults have been brought up here and are contributing to our country. They are a part of the next generation, unlike the bitter old men and women who want to throw them out.
Now, for common sense: Ending DACA, according to our brain-dead administration, will serve as a disincentive to the next wave of ten year olds just waiting to invade our country? Nuff said.
Finally, some self-interest (a Trump specialty after all): These young adults have been brought up here and are contributing to our country. They are a part of the next generation, unlike the bitter old men and women who want to throw them out.
6
Illegal immigrants are not the majority in any workplace category.
4
The executive branch has clearly punted the DACA issue to the allegedly co-equal legislative branch, whose inaction on coherent legislation is legend. If Congress has six months to find a viable solution (to Trump's rescission of DACA) then history tells us they will still be debating the issue 5 months and 29 days from now.
The judiciary should not be the legislator of last resort but, under Trump's administration, there is clear evidence that they may be the only adults in the room. What we are seeing with DACA, as with so many critical issues of importance to Americans, is a stunning abdication of responsibility from the GOP majority-led executive and legislative branches.
That, by itself, is malfeasance of office, but what's worse is the effects of their continued procrastination and posturing upon those who are most vulnerable. The GOP, led by Trump, Ryan and McConnell, has determined that exhibiting genuine empathy is only for suckers.
The judiciary should not be the legislator of last resort but, under Trump's administration, there is clear evidence that they may be the only adults in the room. What we are seeing with DACA, as with so many critical issues of importance to Americans, is a stunning abdication of responsibility from the GOP majority-led executive and legislative branches.
That, by itself, is malfeasance of office, but what's worse is the effects of their continued procrastination and posturing upon those who are most vulnerable. The GOP, led by Trump, Ryan and McConnell, has determined that exhibiting genuine empathy is only for suckers.
11
The Judiciary as the last adults in town??? You do realize that the SCOTUS was packed with that GOP puppet instead of a real Supreme Court justice, right? Until he is removed, we have no legitimate SCOTUS.
1
Uh, go home? You know, to the countries where they actually have LEGAL citizenship?
26
The U.S. IS their home- that is the point. Some of these people are in their 30s.
22
and were children when they arrived.
4
They are criminals.
10
The President really likes the ability to pardon. It worked with Joe Arpaio. Might even work if Mueller finds criminal activity among Trump family or staff surrounding the relationship with Russia prior to election.
Trump can just pardon the dreamers, just pardon them all. Problem solved, within the rule of law. So everyone would be happy, yes?
Trump can just pardon the dreamers, just pardon them all. Problem solved, within the rule of law. So everyone would be happy, yes?
13
Being brought to the US as an infant or young child is not a crime committed by the child. Therefore it is not subject to the pardon power.
2
They can't be pardoned, they can only be punished - for something they didn't do. That's the preposterous, intolerable situation that DACA was meant to fix. Leave it to Trump to make things worse.
6
The pardon can be used in advance, as Ford did with Nixon.
Trump might just as well send the Statue of Liberty back to France.
57
It is not exactly 1886 anymore. When the Statue of Liberty was dedicated that year, the US population stood at around 56 million. We are over 326 million now.
22
Clearly, deporting 1/400th of us will make a big difference. Ending DACA solves nothing and creates misery. But hey, it gets applause from Trump's base. Evidently, that's reason enough for him.
6
@Jim Demers in Brooklyn, there is certainly a moral argument to be made in favor of legislative codification of DACA by Congress. Since the Trump administration would likely lose on DACA in court anyway, just as DAPA was recently struck down, the punt to Congress is appropriate. Trump is not the one ending DACA. The courts are ending it (or will/would soon) because it is likely unconstitutional.
It would behoove the Democrats to follow the recent advice of several Hillary Clinton supporters such as journalist Fareed Zakaria and Jon Meacham. In Fareed's words, time to give up the "absolutism" on immigration; and in Meacham's words, "it is not racism to debate immigration."
Time for both sides to compromise for the good of the country and that means packaging legislative version of DACA, such as Dreamer Act, with long overdue reforms to the overall immigration system, such as embodied in the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act. I am concerned the Democrats do not seem to be getting the message.
It would behoove the Democrats to follow the recent advice of several Hillary Clinton supporters such as journalist Fareed Zakaria and Jon Meacham. In Fareed's words, time to give up the "absolutism" on immigration; and in Meacham's words, "it is not racism to debate immigration."
Time for both sides to compromise for the good of the country and that means packaging legislative version of DACA, such as Dreamer Act, with long overdue reforms to the overall immigration system, such as embodied in the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act. I am concerned the Democrats do not seem to be getting the message.
3
Those conservatives who *genuinely* care about whether the government abuses its power should see this abuse very clearly. It would be outrageous for the government to deport people by using the very information it acquired through DACA.
Regardless of your view on immigration in general, citizens should object to letting the government violate and exploit a legal arrangement it extended to these young people.
(Oh, and the government also took their yearly fees for our common treasury, too. That would be theft on top of an abuse of power.)
Regardless of your view on immigration in general, citizens should object to letting the government violate and exploit a legal arrangement it extended to these young people.
(Oh, and the government also took their yearly fees for our common treasury, too. That would be theft on top of an abuse of power.)
14
And, those who are employed and not students and, thus, not employed pa taxes but are ineligible for any benefits . So, can we say they are contributing to the general economy?
8
If the President keeps his promise then the Dreamers should go to their home Countries and use the education that they have received while living illegally here in the United States. If they really were as industries as the liberals say they are, just think what 800,000 educated young individuals could do for their fellow man when they return home?
19
If only it were that easy.
3
Just think what it would do to pull 800,000 educated young individuals out of our economy.
8% of them, if I read the stats right, speak only English. Their home country is our country, the U.S.A.
8% of them, if I read the stats right, speak only English. Their home country is our country, the U.S.A.
6
Let's put this most t cent presidential announcement in context. In the past several weeks, this occupant of the White House has announced his intent to reduce the number of visas available for legal immigration into the US, require interviews for spouses of US citizens before they can get a green card, and refused to condone white supremacists. Add to that the incontrovertible history that immigration law is intended to exclude people deemed "undesirable" because of race, religion, or ethnicity. You're left with the conclusion that this is yet another effort to keep America white and preferably Protestant.
The author makes some great points about the consequences for nearly a million people who have taken advantage of the program. But we need to stay focused on comprehensive immigration reform that removes historic discriminatory barriers.
The author makes some great points about the consequences for nearly a million people who have taken advantage of the program. But we need to stay focused on comprehensive immigration reform that removes historic discriminatory barriers.
2
Historic discriminatory barriers? The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 that still provides the over-arching framework for all legal immigration to the United States has very few barriers. It is a family-based, chain-migration-based, diversity based system that results in over 1,000,000 legal immigrants coming to the US every year from countries all over the world. The current number of legal immigrants per year is like adding more than the entire population of Delaware every single year (and well more than the District of Columbia).
Arguably, however, this system is extremely outdated given it was enacted in a world before NAFTA; globalization; outsourcing of US manufacturing to Asia, etc. Enactment of the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act recently introduced in Congress would finally move the US to a Canadian system of immigration based on points such as skills, education, language ability, financial resources, etc. Open to anyone who scores enough points.
You could say that is discriminatory against people without skills, education, language ability or financial resources but the job of the law and policy is to discriminate in some manner. For example, the law discriminates between someone who murders someone else and someone who does not. I assume you are not arguing for unlimited immigration for any and all of the world's 7 + billion not living in America who can physically get their body within US borders?
Arguably, however, this system is extremely outdated given it was enacted in a world before NAFTA; globalization; outsourcing of US manufacturing to Asia, etc. Enactment of the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act recently introduced in Congress would finally move the US to a Canadian system of immigration based on points such as skills, education, language ability, financial resources, etc. Open to anyone who scores enough points.
You could say that is discriminatory against people without skills, education, language ability or financial resources but the job of the law and policy is to discriminate in some manner. For example, the law discriminates between someone who murders someone else and someone who does not. I assume you are not arguing for unlimited immigration for any and all of the world's 7 + billion not living in America who can physically get their body within US borders?
12
Though Trump may very well be bigoted. I believe he uses DACA and other issues to be intentionally divisive. If he thought he could get an advantage, real or imagined, he would throw the white male protestants just as quick. Was that not his MO, on his last reality show?
3
Just when you think Trump couldn't be any more despicable, he makes plans to attack the most vulnerable members of our society. These are children who have other home than the U.S., and who, given the chance, would be valuable contributors to our society. As the article points out, this harms not only the young people whom Trump threatens to deport, but also to the future of our country's economy and education system.
I am starting to doubt that we can do anything to persuade Trump's base that he has no intention of doing anything to improve their lives. Perhaps we can do more to mobilize the left-leaning masses who feel that the Democratic Party has not done enough to represent their interests.
I am starting to doubt that we can do anything to persuade Trump's base that he has no intention of doing anything to improve their lives. Perhaps we can do more to mobilize the left-leaning masses who feel that the Democratic Party has not done enough to represent their interests.
11
Rich or connected people seem to have little trouble being allowed to live here, how many models, pro golfers or business immigrants do we need? How many illegal immigrants has Trump employed in his business life? This is politics, red meat for the small minded. Daca is working.
13
We gave these people our word! Does the word of the United States of America mean nothing? If so, why have people died for our country?
23
How about those 19th century treaties with Native American tribes?
4
It's unrealistic to expect 19th-century people to be anything else than people of their time, no matter how we criticize their beliefs and actions. But we can learn from them, and to know that we should try to be better.
3
That's why Old Hickory is DJT's idol.
What is not clear is if the DACA immigrants are allowed to stay does this also include their extended family? Do their parents also get rewarded with automatic citizenship for coming over the border illegally with their children?
This is not technically legal, any of it. Call it what it is, DACA is another amnesty.
Let this be a lesson for all future illegals. Come one, come all into our country and you will be given a free ride on our tax payer's dime.
This is not technically legal, any of it. Call it what it is, DACA is another amnesty.
Let this be a lesson for all future illegals. Come one, come all into our country and you will be given a free ride on our tax payer's dime.
27
DACA recipients don't have citizenship and currently there is no path to citizenship for them. They only have the right to stay here and work legally. Ironically these are the type of people trump said he wants as immigrants. They speak English, having gone to elementary, high school and college here, are educated and contribute to society. Since they are legally allowed to stay and work that means they are paying income tax, SSN and Medicare taxes.
7
They are paying their way.
As I said before, there was another proposal to protect the families of the DACA youth, but that was rescinded. So, no, the parents of the DACA young people are not protected from deportation.
So you arrive in this country as a child but your parents entered the country illegally. As a child you don't have a clue about the legality of the situation, all you care about is safety, having fun and the comfort and love of your parents. You grow up, go to school, learn an occupation, maybe go to college, get married raise a family, contribute to society then are told you may have to be deported to the country your parents came from. If Trump makes this happen he is beyond despicable.
23
Not all the parents were illegal. They had their children sent or brought them as undocumented.
1
You don't understand. You should listen to more Laura Ingrham. She will set you straight. These Dreamers are nothing but a drain on our country.
6
Unlike millions of their fellow Americans who happen to have legal status, the Dreamers, who are here because of circumstances beyond their control, have been subjected to thorough background checks. They do not pose a threat to public safety or national security. They do not have significant criminal records. They are pursing an education. Notably, unlike nearly 500,000 of my fellow Wisconsinites, not a single one has a drunk driving conviction. At this point, this is their home and they can be useful, productive Americans. Like the immigrants before them, these are people that will keep America great and make America greater. Congress should recognize this and legislate a solution that will give these people full legal status and a path to citizenship.
13
What complete nonsense. Not a single one has a drunk driving conviction??? If that is the case, and I highly doubt it, it is probably because, as reported in this paper within recent weeks, many prosecutors (notably in Seattle, but possible in Madison as well) are treating illegal immigrants more favorably than citizens when accused of crimes in order to forestall their deportation.
11
The Dreamers are vetted and have to answer to the government if they break the law. There is no evidence that I have seen that allows lawbreakers who are Dreamers to continue to be allowed to stay. In fact, in other cases, the government may be breaking the law by retaining in custody those who would otherwise be granted bail (new law in Illinois that is being broken already). The person being detained was arrested for a domestic situation. He has not been convicted. The authorities say he is being retained because of immigration questions. A new law in Illinois forbids this.
1
I believe that the republican controlled congress will submit a two part bill. Part one will save DACA and part two will be the tax " reform ".
Am I being to cynical ?
Am I being to cynical ?
4
Of course cynical, also wrong. The second part would be a fence and
enhanced deportation who came here illegally by their own
choice, as adults. This would of course not get any Democrat votes.
Thus, either destroy DACA, or end the filibuster.
enhanced deportation who came here illegally by their own
choice, as adults. This would of course not get any Democrat votes.
Thus, either destroy DACA, or end the filibuster.
4
Make them (800,000) USA citizens! Reagan did it in the 1980s for 3 million human beings!
11
The 1986 amnesty was a mistake and it led directly to our current mess. Never again!
23
Did Reagan give them citizenship it green cards?
What happened to America? A sad state of affairs.
8
Children should never be punished for the sins of their parents. These kids should be given a path to citizenship. Hopefully Congress will remedy this issue.
If the government goes back on its word to protect the privacy of those dreamers who provided personal information in good faith because they were promised that it wouldn't be turned over to ICE none of us will be able to trust our government to keep its word going forward. This is how a democracy slips away. The government goes after the least of us and then becomes emboldened to chip away at the rights the rest of us enjoy by virtue of being born in the US.
"What makes someone American isn't just blood or birth but allegiance to our founding principles and faith in the idea that anyone from anywhere can write the next chapter of our story." ~Barack Obama
If the government goes back on its word to protect the privacy of those dreamers who provided personal information in good faith because they were promised that it wouldn't be turned over to ICE none of us will be able to trust our government to keep its word going forward. This is how a democracy slips away. The government goes after the least of us and then becomes emboldened to chip away at the rights the rest of us enjoy by virtue of being born in the US.
"What makes someone American isn't just blood or birth but allegiance to our founding principles and faith in the idea that anyone from anywhere can write the next chapter of our story." ~Barack Obama
11
Maybe someone needs to remind our president that his mother and his grandparents were immigrants, and ultimately became good citizens, and ask how he would he feel if they had been sent back to where they came from without having a chance at citizenship.
He needs to remember and appreciate the fact that everything he has been given and has achieved has in a large part come about as a result of his family migrating and being welcomed into this country.
He needs to remember and appreciate the fact that everything he has been given and has achieved has in a large part come about as a result of his family migrating and being welcomed into this country.
7
Maybe somebody needs to remind you that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration, no matter how much the paper of record seeks to conflate the two.
11
Yes @skeptic their parents were illegal immigrants.
These kids however are essentially de facto citizens having been granted many of the rights enjoyed by all US citizens by order of our last president and don't deserve to be punished for the choices made by their parents when they were minors.
If they've shown a track record of being good "citizens" by staying out of trouble and earning a living they should be allowed to remain and become citizens.
These kids however are essentially de facto citizens having been granted many of the rights enjoyed by all US citizens by order of our last president and don't deserve to be punished for the choices made by their parents when they were minors.
If they've shown a track record of being good "citizens" by staying out of trouble and earning a living they should be allowed to remain and become citizens.
1
They came here as children. They are vulnerable people. It is a mean spirited person who wants to hurt them, and it will not stop with hurting them. Who will be left to speak up when they come for you?
7
"The White House claims that DACA is illegal."
You believe DACA is legal, because Trump thinks otherwise ?
Check our laws and presidential powers again.
Why doesn't NYT publish the statistics of the estimated 800,000 DACA recipients : their highest degree, graduation rate, employment rate, and annual income -- is NYT afraid of the truth ?
You believe DACA is legal, because Trump thinks otherwise ?
Check our laws and presidential powers again.
Why doesn't NYT publish the statistics of the estimated 800,000 DACA recipients : their highest degree, graduation rate, employment rate, and annual income -- is NYT afraid of the truth ?
17
I support expanding DACA, but I suggest you try to use defensible arguments in support of DACA. Homeland Security has regulations because President Obama signed DACA. If DACA is unlawful or unconstitutional, so would be those regulations. As for not using the information provided by DACA enrollees, this is an indefensible argument. When citizens are arrested and similar information is gathered, their data is not expunged (whether they volunteered it or not, whether they were convicted or not) absent an extraordinary court order. As for "entrapment", that is an argument which is applied by the courts strictly and only to criminal proceedings. To be removed from a protection against deportation is not a criminal proceeding. Even DACA's detractors understand that the the persons protected by DACA are not criminals.
These types of arguments hurt, rather than help, the DACA cause.
These types of arguments hurt, rather than help, the DACA cause.
3
The immigration enforcement agencies have the details about the people who registered, in good faith, under the DACA program because the registrants provided the information. It is similar to when an individual provides information in a hearing because they were granted immunity. Using that information to prosecute the individuals with the information they provided under immunity, even for a different case has proven to be illegal. Even if tangentially connected to the information, the person can't be prosecuted. That was the decision about the testimony, later conviction, and subsequent release of Oliver North regarding his Iran-Contra testimony.
If there is a six month reprieve, that six month period must include the current protections of those enrolled under DACA and the destruction of all records related to DACA when the period ends.
If there is a six month reprieve, that six month period must include the current protections of those enrolled under DACA and the destruction of all records related to DACA when the period ends.
3
I must disagree. Deferring deportation is not immunity and is not analgous to immunity, which is much more like a pardon.
3
What do dreamers do now? Try to change hearts and minds with more gratitude for what they have received from this county, how they intend to contribute and less about what they are entitled to because their parents put them in this position
9
No matter how you feel about undocumented immigrants, the sins of the parents should not fall on the children. Shame on us all.
6
Keeping the base intact and happy comes first. Apparently his heart comes in a distant second.
3
In this country, Trump has taken negativity to a new low level. Why doesn't he pardon the dreamers, issue green cards, and have immigration put them on the path of citizenship. Honestly, I'd so much rather have people work for a positive outcome vs. all this punishment of people who had no control over their status coming into this country. Our immigration system was and is broken, yet Trump's solution is to punish innocent people instead of fixing the break in the system for everyone. Trump's so-called "policies" and "executive" orders hurt people and divide this country.
2
Enough of this selective nonsense. It doesn't matter if one is a gang member, living Saint, or student. Immigration law was developed for a reason, all nations have it, and the consequence of disobeying it is universal. There are over seven billion people on planet Earth, nearly four billion are desperately poor, and would, understandably wish to live, study, and work in a developed nation. Hence the purpose of immigration law. Controlling the ebb and flow of massive amounts of humanity is not mean, draconian, racist or cruel. It is simply necessary. And the beneficiary of such policy is, without question, the most vulnerable citizens of the host nation. The United States has an enormous number of citizens and legal immigrants who are struggling to survive. Jobs are scarce, and openings for education even more so. Their lives are difficult enough without the added hassle of competition from those who ignored the very laws that were designed to help them maintain an even playing field. The desire to have a better life is a noble quest. However, it is also the wish of virtually every human being on the globe. Ponder that fact for awhile.
21
Well, if they really believe in the rule of law, they leave....
19
What do dreamers do now? They leave our country and get in line with everyone else and apply for citizenship the correct way. The onus is on their parents for putting them in this difficult situation.
22
Bravo.
1
DACA recipients do not get citizenship - they get permission to work for 2 years. Do you know what DACA is?
Trump's heart is a trump's heart is as big as his tiny hands.
1
Voters across the country and irrespective of party want illegal immigration to stop and they want the laws of this country upheld.
What are the open borders people willing to accept in return for amnesty for any minor brought here before 2015?
Are they willing to lock down the borders first, eliminate birthright citizenship and no welfare for any one currently in the illegally? After all those are met, I'd be happy let the DACA individuals stay.
But the open border people will never agree to ANY limit of ANY kind.
What are the open borders people willing to accept in return for amnesty for any minor brought here before 2015?
Are they willing to lock down the borders first, eliminate birthright citizenship and no welfare for any one currently in the illegally? After all those are met, I'd be happy let the DACA individuals stay.
But the open border people will never agree to ANY limit of ANY kind.
17
There is zero welfare for undocumented people. Where are you getting this information from?
No human beings are illegal" or "alien," least of all children. If we as a nation are so cruel as to deport people from the only homes they've known, in the US, to countries they left without choice as children, we should be deeply ashamed. Those who rant against these people who have grown up in the USA are heartless, mindless, and clueless. In short, they are perfect foils for Trump's heartlessness, mindlessness, and cluelessness. They have no sense of the potential of building a multicultural society together, only of succumbing to fears stoked by Trump and many others, calling for the destruction of the lives of "those others" – who are almost always not white. It is nothing but racism, cloaked in false nationalism and claims of need for national economic security.
2
"Illegal alien" is a descriptive term to distinguish a human being who is a native and citizen of a foreign country and who has not followed the law in moving to a different country. That's all it is. No one is denying the inherent dignity and humanity of every human being.
For the time-being, the world is organized into around 190+ nation-states and the 7.2 billion plus human beings live in these various jurisdictions, subject to the rules and laws of each such place. I agree with Hillary Clinton supporter Fareed Zakaria that the Democrats should abandon the "absolutism" on immigration and with Hillary Clinton supporter Jon Meacham that "it is not racism to debate immigration."
For example, would love to see the Democrats and Republicans compromise and fully embrace and endorse legislative codification of both DACA; and the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act. The RAISE Act would likely alienate the far left extremist groups like the no borders, unlimited immigration La Raza crowd; and DACA would likely alienate the far right extremist groups like the white nationalists and neo-Nazis. But it is time for both parties to stop playing to the crazy extremes and come back to the center. Who will call the bluff of the other first? It would be genius for the Democrats to fully endorse the RAISE Act as a package deal with the Dreamer Act.
For the time-being, the world is organized into around 190+ nation-states and the 7.2 billion plus human beings live in these various jurisdictions, subject to the rules and laws of each such place. I agree with Hillary Clinton supporter Fareed Zakaria that the Democrats should abandon the "absolutism" on immigration and with Hillary Clinton supporter Jon Meacham that "it is not racism to debate immigration."
For example, would love to see the Democrats and Republicans compromise and fully embrace and endorse legislative codification of both DACA; and the Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act. The RAISE Act would likely alienate the far left extremist groups like the no borders, unlimited immigration La Raza crowd; and DACA would likely alienate the far right extremist groups like the white nationalists and neo-Nazis. But it is time for both parties to stop playing to the crazy extremes and come back to the center. Who will call the bluff of the other first? It would be genius for the Democrats to fully endorse the RAISE Act as a package deal with the Dreamer Act.
4
Do you have even a remote understanding of the purpose immigration law?
Being in this country illegally makes you an illegal alien. If the term illegal alien offends you, having foreigners in this country illegally offends me.
2
Please do not punish innocent children for the sins of their parents. These Dreamers consider themselves Americans. They do not know their native countries and, in some cases, do not speak the language. Are we going to deport them with $100 in their pockets and a suitcase? Where would they go? Who could they turn in a strange country for help? Are we. as Americans, that heartless?
3
How about the governments of Mexico, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras et al.- step up to the plate for a change and welcome these kids back with open arms? I've been hearing all week that DACA children have first class educations- why not put them to use and rebuild the countries their parents fled to begin with.. Make your countries so great that someday I will want to enter illegally and stay there..
14
I try to imagine what it will look like on the media
as families are separated and teenagers/children are put
on planes to homelands they may not even remember.
[By the way who is paying for these 800,000 plane tickets ? ]
If they have not committed serious crimes, why not let them stay
and contribute to America as best they can ?
as families are separated and teenagers/children are put
on planes to homelands they may not even remember.
[By the way who is paying for these 800,000 plane tickets ? ]
If they have not committed serious crimes, why not let them stay
and contribute to America as best they can ?
4
I find it difficult to find the words that adequately describe the abject cruelty of Trump in terminating this program, and that of his supporters who either defend or make excuses for his decision. Whatever may be the immigration status of the parents of "dreamers," the dreamers themselves had no say in the decision to come here. Many of them have no memory of the country in which they were , and some don't even speak the language. Forcing them to return to countries they don't know and have little in common with other than ethnic heritage is nothing short of sadistic, and will stand as a moral stain upon this nation as a whole.
4
This would be a no-brainer with any president
but Trump.
but Trump.
2
"Its repeal would upend the lives not only of these “Dreamers,” as participants are called, but also of their families, co-workers and employers."
By "families", I take you to mean the illegal "immigrant" parents that created this mess in the first place and that should be deported regardless of the disposition of the Dreamers?
By "families", I take you to mean the illegal "immigrant" parents that created this mess in the first place and that should be deported regardless of the disposition of the Dreamers?
12
The true Dreamers are those who have filled out reams of paperwork, undergone extensive background checks and have undergone multiple consular interviews. And now they wait their turn.
25
"The White House claims that DACA, which President Barack Obama announced in 2012 and which has broad bipartisan support, is illegal, but deferred action is a widely accepted legal principle."
Accepted legal principle by whom, exactly? It hasn't been challenged in court because the Republican State AGs have not yet filed a lawsuit under the expectation that Trump would do the right thing and reverse it from the White House.
The fact of the matter is that no sitting President, neither Obama nor Trump, is entitled to decide which laws the Executive Branch will or will not enforce. It up to Congress to determine whether the "Dreamers" are granted amnesty or not and the President must enforce those laws barring a challenge in the judiciary.
Reversing DACA will goad Republicans and Democrats into action for something good. If they can't come to an agreement in 6 months, they don't deserve to hold office at all.
"...the expansive cruelty of the executive branch may yet be tempered by the powers and wisdom of America’s legal system."
No it won't. We don't discard laws simply because they tear at heart strings neither will the Supreme Court. That's a slippery slope which prior administrations were content to support. No more! It ends in 2017.
Accepted legal principle by whom, exactly? It hasn't been challenged in court because the Republican State AGs have not yet filed a lawsuit under the expectation that Trump would do the right thing and reverse it from the White House.
The fact of the matter is that no sitting President, neither Obama nor Trump, is entitled to decide which laws the Executive Branch will or will not enforce. It up to Congress to determine whether the "Dreamers" are granted amnesty or not and the President must enforce those laws barring a challenge in the judiciary.
Reversing DACA will goad Republicans and Democrats into action for something good. If they can't come to an agreement in 6 months, they don't deserve to hold office at all.
"...the expansive cruelty of the executive branch may yet be tempered by the powers and wisdom of America’s legal system."
No it won't. We don't discard laws simply because they tear at heart strings neither will the Supreme Court. That's a slippery slope which prior administrations were content to support. No more! It ends in 2017.
18
The only thing the parties have agreed about so far is that Trump should have less power.
The Dreamers should be required to earn their US citizenship by compulsory service in DHS or DOD. If younger than 18, they can accumulate credit towards completion during summers. If over 18, they must complete their credits before receiving state or federal aid for college.
6
Many Dreamers have served with great honor in our U.S military, including one veteran DACA dreamer who died rescuing people in Houston.
Their service, for some serving in Iraq and Afghanistan and with valor, will be deported along with all others, including other first responders, doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers, programmers, journalists and more.
Their service, for some serving in Iraq and Afghanistan and with valor, will be deported along with all others, including other first responders, doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers, programmers, journalists and more.
4
"Its repeal would upend the lives not only of these “Dreamers,” as participants are called, but also of their families, co-workers and employers."
Not just families, co-workers and employers - but employees too. Some of the Dreamers are now in their 30s, and you can bet that many of them have started their own businesses and are employers themselves. If there's one trait immigrants have, it's being entrepreneurs. These people, often excluded by race, language, education or culture from the mainstream economy, go about creating their own niches and thus join the economy, enriching us all as they invest money and labor in their businesses and hire employees, who spend their pay in the local economies of countless cities and towns.
Let's not forget that immigrants, including Dreamers, are positive forces in our society and our economy. They are givers, and if we give them help when they're starting out, it's returned to us many-fold.
Not just families, co-workers and employers - but employees too. Some of the Dreamers are now in their 30s, and you can bet that many of them have started their own businesses and are employers themselves. If there's one trait immigrants have, it's being entrepreneurs. These people, often excluded by race, language, education or culture from the mainstream economy, go about creating their own niches and thus join the economy, enriching us all as they invest money and labor in their businesses and hire employees, who spend their pay in the local economies of countless cities and towns.
Let's not forget that immigrants, including Dreamers, are positive forces in our society and our economy. They are givers, and if we give them help when they're starting out, it's returned to us many-fold.
26
Look, I'm for extending DACA, but for a law professor to argue "entrapment" is specious, if not bizarre. The government did not "induce" anyone to cross the border illegally, and requiring personal data to stay two more years is not entrapment, although it may be a form of self-incrimination.
DACA supporters need to get the public behind them with a clearer message. The first thing I would suggest is to waive American and not Mexican flags at rallies. The second thing would be to discard those banners which suggest resistance. Tell America what Dreamers bring to the table, which is a lot. Americans will give you the shirt off their backs, but they won't allow anyone to take it from them.
DACA supporters need to get the public behind them with a clearer message. The first thing I would suggest is to waive American and not Mexican flags at rallies. The second thing would be to discard those banners which suggest resistance. Tell America what Dreamers bring to the table, which is a lot. Americans will give you the shirt off their backs, but they won't allow anyone to take it from them.
44
"Look, I'm for extending DACA, but for a law professor to argue "entrapment" is specious, if not bizarre."
You've completely missed the point. Entrapment happens when you're told your info. will not be given to a certain organisation, so you give that information ... and then that organisation, now armed with that information, does you some harm.
You've completely missed the point. Entrapment happens when you're told your info. will not be given to a certain organisation, so you give that information ... and then that organisation, now armed with that information, does you some harm.
2
Reply to John M in New Zealand:
No, that is NOT the legal definition of "entrapment" in this country.
Entrapment occurs when the government creates a criminal scenario and induces a defendant who was not already predisposed to criminal behavior to commit a crime. That didn't happen here.
The criminal violation at the border had ALREADY been committed by entering without documents.
No, that is NOT the legal definition of "entrapment" in this country.
Entrapment occurs when the government creates a criminal scenario and induces a defendant who was not already predisposed to criminal behavior to commit a crime. That didn't happen here.
The criminal violation at the border had ALREADY been committed by entering without documents.
6
To Conservative Democrat from W. Va. -- I seldom see Mexican flags as rallies, etc., for Dreamers. Quite the opposite, their talk about being totally american troubles me, as if they are almost ashamed of their backgrounds -- and NObody should have to be ashamed of who they are.
As to "those banners that suggest resistance" -- I have been concerned as well. But there is an irony to this: Those banners are very, very American. Their style of protest is nothing like protests in Latin American countries. Rather, it is an illustration that their way of expressing themselves, their way of thinking, is our way, learned from us, here. And it's an illustration that, in a real sense, they will be foreigners anywhere else, if they are sent to other countries, in truth, even if not in legal technicalities.
And doesn't this increase the moral and human arguments for them?
As to "those banners that suggest resistance" -- I have been concerned as well. But there is an irony to this: Those banners are very, very American. Their style of protest is nothing like protests in Latin American countries. Rather, it is an illustration that their way of expressing themselves, their way of thinking, is our way, learned from us, here. And it's an illustration that, in a real sense, they will be foreigners anywhere else, if they are sent to other countries, in truth, even if not in legal technicalities.
And doesn't this increase the moral and human arguments for them?
3
ThIs program does not provide lawful status or a path to citizenship, nor does it provide eligibility for federal welfare or student aid. So what's the problem here? Why rescind protection? It's a goodwill gesture that harms no one but helps hundreds of thousands young immigrants? Certainly bigger problems eclipse.
12
Whether or not work by illegal immigrants harms American workers is a subject economists are debating, but to say DACA hurts no one is ridiculous: what about the millions who are waiting their turn and paying huge fees, legal and otherwise, to enter the country legally.
4
What's wrong is the idea that laws should be ignored for questionable reasons. Either fix the law to reflect current needs or enforce the law. Not something in between.
4
Clearly, immigration reform is long overdue. However, it is not a good idea to simply suspend statutory law by executive fiat. I thing giving Congress a finite period of time to pass the necessary legislation, while not ideal, is one way to get some movement out of Congress - nothing else worked. I agree it is wrong to penalize individuals brought to this country as minors, however I do not feel the same way about the vast majority of illegal - yes, illegal - immigrants who have come here as adults.
We need a fair system for people to immigrate to the United States, but we do not need a blanket "open door" policy which basically consists of sneaking across the border and then refusing to go back. Tell me, where are the countries that allow this?
We need a fair system for people to immigrate to the United States, but we do not need a blanket "open door" policy which basically consists of sneaking across the border and then refusing to go back. Tell me, where are the countries that allow this?
15
Letting people sneak in and making little effort to identify them, round them up, and send them back is common in many countries, where such people provide a source of cheap labor and can be abused with impunity. Most countries in the Middle East, with the exception of Saudi Arabia, do this -- Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan with Syria, Iran with Afghanistan, and the policy shades over into more official policies regarding refugees.
3
If the US had made any attempt to enforce the boarders under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush II, I would say deport those kids who were brought in illegally. But for at least 28 years the US did not police its borders or deport any but the most outrageous criminals. Sometimes when one doesn't enforce a law for many years, it is as if the law never existed. To go back and pull an old law out of the books and enforce it on people who had no control of their circumstances at the time they were brought into the US is unfair and should be illegal.
Obama began enforcing the borders. Trump is also doing so. Few people are crossing the borders illegally and deporting those who entered the country illegally since border enforcement began makes more sense.
Deporting the DACA immigrants does not. I don't see why Trump is so hell-bent on doing that which doesn't make sense, but he has at least given Congress a chance to prevent DACA dreamers from being deported. P
Please, Congress, do your job.
Obama began enforcing the borders. Trump is also doing so. Few people are crossing the borders illegally and deporting those who entered the country illegally since border enforcement began makes more sense.
Deporting the DACA immigrants does not. I don't see why Trump is so hell-bent on doing that which doesn't make sense, but he has at least given Congress a chance to prevent DACA dreamers from being deported. P
Please, Congress, do your job.
27
There is a legal concept called "adverse possession" which applies to squatters who squatted for years, took care of the property, and never faced serious attempts to kick them out. It, too, is part of the law that our hard-line immigration foes claim to worship. The law should embody common sense and justice, but the letter of the law (certain selected laws) is often used to rape common sense and justice; the history of the Deep South, where such rape was a way of life for generations, offers many splendid examples.
3
Read up on it -- nobody can claim adverse possession against the sovereign or the state.
5
All of those who want to punish kids, many now hard-working high achievers contributing to their communities, for entering the US for a better life when they were 6-years old:
What about punishing Arpaio for inhumane and cruel actions in defiance of the Constitution and for Contempt of Court?
What about punishing Arpaio for inhumane and cruel actions in defiance of the Constitution and for Contempt of Court?
279
One has nothing to do with the other, unless you are arguing that the President should exercise a mass pardon of all so-called Dreamers. Actually, I seem to recall that President Obama considered that, but the legal consensus was that using the pardon power on a mass basis was clearly beyond what the Framers had in mind.
5
I am not in favor of Arpaio's pardon, I think it was a terrible thing to do; nor am I in favor of keeping DACA as it is a reward for breaking the law. How are the two issues related? Should we reward people that jump ahead of the immigration line because Trump did something despicable for some sheriff in Arizona?
5
He was punished...and pardoned. Happy? I am.
4
I agree that children should not be punished for the crimes of their parents. However, using the same logic should it be permissible to reward children for the crimes of their parents? That makes no sense either. I don't think they should be deported. But they shouldn't be rewarded with legal work authorizations either. Instead of 'Dreamers' dictating immigration law, why not let those who are patiently waiting in line decide the best course of action? If they are okay with giving 'dreamers' amnesty then I will support it too.
29
Maurico,
My brother in the UK is one of those "patiently waiting in line" for a US green card so he can come over and live here with me (we neither of us have other family). He has been on it for four years, and will likely be on it for another six - eight years before his application will be up for review. But we both enthusiastically support giving legal status to these young (or even old) people through DACA. Why? Because it's the right thing to do, and sometimes, Maurico, life is about more than the self.
My brother in the UK is one of those "patiently waiting in line" for a US green card so he can come over and live here with me (we neither of us have other family). He has been on it for four years, and will likely be on it for another six - eight years before his application will be up for review. But we both enthusiastically support giving legal status to these young (or even old) people through DACA. Why? Because it's the right thing to do, and sometimes, Maurico, life is about more than the self.
362
"should it be permissible to reward children for the crimes of their parents"
Certainly Donald Trump's father was rewarded for the brothel-running of his father, and Donald Trump's children are rewarded for his stiffing of contractors, money-laundering, etc.
Trump family crimes are much more destructive than a border-crossing by a desperate parent fleeing a potentially deadly situation with a dream to work hard and build a better life for their children (as all our ancestors did before foreigner-=hating Republicans changed the immigration rules in the 1920s to make what our ancestors did illegal.)
Certainly Donald Trump's father was rewarded for the brothel-running of his father, and Donald Trump's children are rewarded for his stiffing of contractors, money-laundering, etc.
Trump family crimes are much more destructive than a border-crossing by a desperate parent fleeing a potentially deadly situation with a dream to work hard and build a better life for their children (as all our ancestors did before foreigner-=hating Republicans changed the immigration rules in the 1920s to make what our ancestors did illegal.)
243
Lets see. You have 800,000 people. They can work, go to school, pay taxes, support themselves, etc. On the other hand, w/o authorizations, they can hang out on the streets, sell drugs cause they can't work, and remain uneducated.
Who exactly is being rewarded? I think its all of us. These young people are contributing members of society, active community members. This benefits us all.
Who exactly is being rewarded? I think its all of us. These young people are contributing members of society, active community members. This benefits us all.
39
People are missing that the Dreamers were always vulnerable under DACA. They could apply for 2 year work permits until they are 30, provided the President decides to allow them, and the courts agree, but companies are always going to be wary of employees that might have to stop at any time, and must leave when they are 30.
And there is question whether the work permits under DACA are legal. I understand that deferred prosecution is probably legal, even if it violates the spirit of the law. But giving people work permits, without authorization from congress, is most likely illegal. U.S. law limits the number of work permits that are allowed to be issued. DACA created extra work permits by presidential fiat.
I cannot see the present Supreme Court allowing the President to create work permits by presidential fiat. Several states are already suing. It is only a matter of time before the work permits for the Dreamers end.
Given that perspective, Trump's actions are good for the Dreamers. He has set a 6 month deadline for congress to act.
Hopefully, congress will act and the uncertainty for the Dreamers will end. US companies need the employees. DACA has considerable public support. The most likely outcome is that Congress will create legal work permits for the Dreamers, and their vulnerability will end. At least I hope so.
And there is question whether the work permits under DACA are legal. I understand that deferred prosecution is probably legal, even if it violates the spirit of the law. But giving people work permits, without authorization from congress, is most likely illegal. U.S. law limits the number of work permits that are allowed to be issued. DACA created extra work permits by presidential fiat.
I cannot see the present Supreme Court allowing the President to create work permits by presidential fiat. Several states are already suing. It is only a matter of time before the work permits for the Dreamers end.
Given that perspective, Trump's actions are good for the Dreamers. He has set a 6 month deadline for congress to act.
Hopefully, congress will act and the uncertainty for the Dreamers will end. US companies need the employees. DACA has considerable public support. The most likely outcome is that Congress will create legal work permits for the Dreamers, and their vulnerability will end. At least I hope so.
16
"What Do Dreamers Do Now?"
Why not ask their families, the sovereign states where they originated and Obama who put them in this spot? When Obama did this there were many public warnings and statements of the problems he was creating and the untenable situation he was putting these young people in. Ask him.
Or is there a double standard for the havoc Obama has wrought in many areas out of undemocratic political and ideological self-interest?
Why not ask their families, the sovereign states where they originated and Obama who put them in this spot? When Obama did this there were many public warnings and statements of the problems he was creating and the untenable situation he was putting these young people in. Ask him.
Or is there a double standard for the havoc Obama has wrought in many areas out of undemocratic political and ideological self-interest?
59
Think about it. Repubs refused to touch immigration - they worked only to obstruct, and never offered solutions to the problem. The problem is not Obama's decision to do something; it was Repubs' refusal to do anything that got us here.
29
Their situation before Obama was even worse and more untenable. They were too young to go to a country and live on their own, and they had no future here, either immediate or long-term, so that careers were impossible and education (work hard and make something of yourself) was pointless. Obama did not create these problems, and Republicans for their political advantage would not let him solve them, so he did what he could to make the problems less bad.
Obama deported more people than dubya did, so perhaps it is all dubya's fault. Congress tried and failed to create a bipartisan solution, so maybe it is Congress's fault. This solution was blocked by Republican hardliners, so it is actually their fault. Unable to convince most of the country that what they want is the moral or right thing to do, they block attempts at solutions rather than negotiating with the rest of the country, hoping that the situation becomes so bad that the rest of us will give up and let them have their way.
There is a double standard; Republicans are allowed to have a return to power as their main or even only goal, while Democrats have to consider the common good and long-established traditions of working together. Republicans are Lucy and Democrats are Charlie Brown.
Obama deported more people than dubya did, so perhaps it is all dubya's fault. Congress tried and failed to create a bipartisan solution, so maybe it is Congress's fault. This solution was blocked by Republican hardliners, so it is actually their fault. Unable to convince most of the country that what they want is the moral or right thing to do, they block attempts at solutions rather than negotiating with the rest of the country, hoping that the situation becomes so bad that the rest of us will give up and let them have their way.
There is a double standard; Republicans are allowed to have a return to power as their main or even only goal, while Democrats have to consider the common good and long-established traditions of working together. Republicans are Lucy and Democrats are Charlie Brown.
7
Antonio, when it comes to "political and ideological self-interest" you may want to examine the shameful conduct of our do-nothing Congress.
3
DACA is illegal under Federal Immigration Law. While the Executive has significant freedoms related to immigration, the lawsuits flowing from the States, and their likelihood of success, ensures that DACA will end.
The premise that DACA information will be used as evidence of a crime seems a straw man argument - it is very unlikely this would be allowed by the courts and the Executive knows this.
The six months grace is just long enough to stay, or kill off the current litigation, which will allow Congress to do what it supposed to do - legislate.
I can see a path to citizenship for DACA Dreamers, and will support it. I can also see limitations on ancillary immigration's so that one grant of citizenship doesn't become an entire family tree. Stronger controls on immigration, sure. The wall, probably.
There will lots of politics and deal-making, but the DACA Dreamers offer the chance of a lifetime for a bi-partisan lasting solution to the immigration conundrum.
The premise that DACA information will be used as evidence of a crime seems a straw man argument - it is very unlikely this would be allowed by the courts and the Executive knows this.
The six months grace is just long enough to stay, or kill off the current litigation, which will allow Congress to do what it supposed to do - legislate.
I can see a path to citizenship for DACA Dreamers, and will support it. I can also see limitations on ancillary immigration's so that one grant of citizenship doesn't become an entire family tree. Stronger controls on immigration, sure. The wall, probably.
There will lots of politics and deal-making, but the DACA Dreamers offer the chance of a lifetime for a bi-partisan lasting solution to the immigration conundrum.
29
Judging from the first few responses. I would say that Trump is reflecting the wishes of his base. Throw the bums out! We must adhere to the letter of the law! Otherwise, our laws are meaningless!
Gosh! Where were these people when Trump began trashing rule of law since he took office? Where were they when Mitch McConnell threw away his constitutional responsibilities?
Sometimes our laws stink. This is one of them. President Obama tried to do what would be morally just in face of COMPLETE INACTION by the Republican controlled Congress. We have been trying to fix the immigration problem for decades and the GOP will have none of it. They refuse to take action.
So president Obama did an end around and started DACA. Now the GOP gets to enact its revenge.
The real motivation here is not to Make America Great Again, but to Make America White Again. Trump is playing to his base. Trump feeds on adualation. The world can't stand him but his base adores him. So he is giving his MAWA base what they want. Now he can attend his self congratulatory rallies and receive the praise and glory that he desperately craves. Ruining the lives of 800,000 young people who have only known America as their home, well, that's their problem.
Laws are supposed to build society, not tear it apart. Trump is doing just that. He is tearing us apart. All for the applause.
Gosh! Where were these people when Trump began trashing rule of law since he took office? Where were they when Mitch McConnell threw away his constitutional responsibilities?
Sometimes our laws stink. This is one of them. President Obama tried to do what would be morally just in face of COMPLETE INACTION by the Republican controlled Congress. We have been trying to fix the immigration problem for decades and the GOP will have none of it. They refuse to take action.
So president Obama did an end around and started DACA. Now the GOP gets to enact its revenge.
The real motivation here is not to Make America Great Again, but to Make America White Again. Trump is playing to his base. Trump feeds on adualation. The world can't stand him but his base adores him. So he is giving his MAWA base what they want. Now he can attend his self congratulatory rallies and receive the praise and glory that he desperately craves. Ruining the lives of 800,000 young people who have only known America as their home, well, that's their problem.
Laws are supposed to build society, not tear it apart. Trump is doing just that. He is tearing us apart. All for the applause.
536
So well said.
1
More excuses to support criminals. Better to enforce immigration laws and deport all illegal aliens. These DACA illegal aliens are NOT WELCOME in the USA.
6
"What Do Dreamers Do Now?"
Excellent time to be like the Peace Corps and return to their country of origin, and fix that country.
And take their parents with them, too.
And obey USA laws -- get in line, and wait like everyone else.
That is, so as to prevent a total breakdown of rule of law, e.g., why should anyone "voluntarily comply" with IRS rules?
Excellent time to be like the Peace Corps and return to their country of origin, and fix that country.
And take their parents with them, too.
And obey USA laws -- get in line, and wait like everyone else.
That is, so as to prevent a total breakdown of rule of law, e.g., why should anyone "voluntarily comply" with IRS rules?
4
It's all well and good to feel sorry for the dreamers but why stop there? Citizens of India can wait 10 years or more for permanent residence based upon current quarter backlogs. Why not eliminate per country quotas and allow these residents to obtain visas rather than subjecting them to a long wait? Or just move up the registry date under Section 249 of the immigration and nationality act which is now stuck at January 1st 1972
15
No. We should not remove per-country limits because we want to have a diverse group of immigrants. Not a flood from one country.
8
Sad commentary on a once great country
Send them north I say
Our street - 54 families - got together to support a Syrian refugee family of 5 and it wasn't Canada that caused all of the destruction in the Middle East I believe that Canada took in almost 50,000 refugees from Syria and neighbouring areas while the USA which has more than 10x the population has taken in very few
In my estimation your current President demeans the whole idea of America .
I hope by the next election cycle , progressive American voters will get out and elect leaders who will not dishonour their country.
Send them north I say
Our street - 54 families - got together to support a Syrian refugee family of 5 and it wasn't Canada that caused all of the destruction in the Middle East I believe that Canada took in almost 50,000 refugees from Syria and neighbouring areas while the USA which has more than 10x the population has taken in very few
In my estimation your current President demeans the whole idea of America .
I hope by the next election cycle , progressive American voters will get out and elect leaders who will not dishonour their country.
403
Canada has a points-based immigration system that looks at skills, education, language ability, financial resources, etc. and strongly enforces it. The GOP-introduced Cotton-Perdue RAISE Act would move America to a Canadian style system. Bill Clinton's Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform, led by African-American, Democratic Congresswoman Barbara Jordan, strongly recommended adopting a Canadian style immigration system over 20 years ago. But when Ms. Jordan died, Clinton betrayed the Barbara Jordan Democrats as a quid pro quo for illegal Chinese campaign financing in 1996. So the US maintained the already then-outdated family-based, chain-migration based, diversity-based legal immigration system established in 1965 in a world that did not involve globalization, NAFTA, US manufacturing moving to Asia, etc. and all of the corrosive and destructive effects that has had on the US. Not to mention a de facto open borders system to maintain unlimited illegal immigration to further weaken bargaining power of US citizen labor.
I would love to see the Democrats embrace the Canadian style immigration system that Barbara Jordan's Commission recommended but they sadly seem entirely dismissive of the RAISE Act. Canada is highly compassionate with refugees because it has a great legal immigration system that works. Something entirely in contrast with the United States.
I would love to see the Democrats embrace the Canadian style immigration system that Barbara Jordan's Commission recommended but they sadly seem entirely dismissive of the RAISE Act. Canada is highly compassionate with refugees because it has a great legal immigration system that works. Something entirely in contrast with the United States.
43
No Christian here, but having once been, I remember passages from the bible the evangelicals say is their guide, it goes, 'Suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such us the kingdom of heaven'.
Yes, America was once a great country, but never a moral one. Send them north you say, and I agree. Perhaps our parliament should offer them refuge here.
Just yesterday, I met with Syrian immigrants and offered to help them if they ever needed help, it's the human thing to do, it's the Christian thing to do, it's the Canadian thing we do.
Come to Canada dreamers if your country doesn't want you, you'll find people who follow the notion, 'there bu for the grace of god go I ', and I don't even believe in god.
As for evangelicals, their hypocrisy is obvious.
Yes, America was once a great country, but never a moral one. Send them north you say, and I agree. Perhaps our parliament should offer them refuge here.
Just yesterday, I met with Syrian immigrants and offered to help them if they ever needed help, it's the human thing to do, it's the Christian thing to do, it's the Canadian thing we do.
Come to Canada dreamers if your country doesn't want you, you'll find people who follow the notion, 'there bu for the grace of god go I ', and I don't even believe in god.
As for evangelicals, their hypocrisy is obvious.
6
Iansford, it is hard to believe that passage from the Bible was meant to apply to the USA. Could it not equally apply to any other nation?
1
President Obama created this mess by executive order. They people are hear illegally. Please stop telling me how the country can't function with all of these DACA computer scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. How about the
NYT editorial board go to Mexico and try to live there without permission. You'd be sent home.
NYT editorial board go to Mexico and try to live there without permission. You'd be sent home.
85
No, John Boehner created this mess when he refused to bring a bipartisan immigration reform bill that had passed the Senate up for a vote in the House because he know it would get a majority of votes in the House, Obama would sign it, it would become law, and then Republicans would not be able to continue to get elected by demonizing hard-working immigrants.
318
@Lynn in NY, if you go by that measure, then you can equally say Bernie Sanders created this mess by joining the other Democrats who splintered away to join the far right in May and June of 2007 to vote against a bipartisan immigration reform bill that was 90% of the "Gang of 8" effort that John Boehner prevented from getting full hearing. G.W. Bush was ready to sign that bill and there were enough moderate Republicans still to pass it if the Democrats actually lived by their "rah-rah" immigrant rhetoric and voted unanimously in favor. They did not, famously ignoring their colleague Ted Kennedy's pleas for the "last, best chance."
Or you could blame Bill Clinton in 1996 for betraying his Democratic colleague Barbara Jordan & her incredible work on Clinton's own Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform. If he had simply stood by his word, the US would already have reformed our long out-dated immigration system and his wife would likely be President today.
Or you could blame Bill Clinton in 1996 for betraying his Democratic colleague Barbara Jordan & her incredible work on Clinton's own Bipartisan Commission on Immigration Reform. If he had simply stood by his word, the US would already have reformed our long out-dated immigration system and his wife would likely be President today.
15
"say Bernie Sanders created this mess "
Yes, Bernie definitely was wrong to vote against Teddy Kennedy's immigration bill, (another example of his criticizing those who aren't pure enough rather than accepting significant step-wise progress)
Many of us opposed the second-class citizen guest worker provisions, but the bill would have taken millions out of the shadows, and kept families from being ripped apart.
(As for Bill Clinton/Barbara Jordan, as I understand the disagreement was over sibling migration; after she died others advocated to Clinton to continue to allow it)
We might still be working to repair the second-class citizen aspects of the bill Sanders opposed, but many lives would have been protected and ongoing tragedies avoided.
Still, that all was history when a bill that had enough votes to pass the Congress, and would have become law, was blocked by the party-before country Republican "leader" Boehner, leading to the destruction of many loving and hard-working family units to score political points.
Yes, Bernie definitely was wrong to vote against Teddy Kennedy's immigration bill, (another example of his criticizing those who aren't pure enough rather than accepting significant step-wise progress)
Many of us opposed the second-class citizen guest worker provisions, but the bill would have taken millions out of the shadows, and kept families from being ripped apart.
(As for Bill Clinton/Barbara Jordan, as I understand the disagreement was over sibling migration; after she died others advocated to Clinton to continue to allow it)
We might still be working to repair the second-class citizen aspects of the bill Sanders opposed, but many lives would have been protected and ongoing tragedies avoided.
Still, that all was history when a bill that had enough votes to pass the Congress, and would have become law, was blocked by the party-before country Republican "leader" Boehner, leading to the destruction of many loving and hard-working family units to score political points.
8
The overriding principle is whether our government is trustworthy. It is for this reason that our Presidents have historically been loath to overturn important decisions by their predecessors upon which people have acted faithfully. Trump, in his zeal to obliterate DACA and anything else Obama, has placed our government in exactly the position claimed by the fringe right wing i.e.that the federal government is evil and cannot be trusted. If Trump damages DACA he will have taken a position that is at once unamerican and that does further violence to the credibility of our democratic institutions. The ramifications will be wide ranging. Our place in the international system depends on the credibility and perceived goodwill of our President. For Trump to be seen as impetuous and irresponsible in negating the orderly function and continuity of our government at great cost to people who depended on its word will cause doubt among our allies and adversaries alike.
Congress must deal with the Dreamers, and with immigration generally, and restrain Trump from committing an atrocious act that would cause most Americans to be ashamed.
Congress must deal with the Dreamers, and with immigration generally, and restrain Trump from committing an atrocious act that would cause most Americans to be ashamed.
46
Mr. Obama created this program which is probably unconstitutional and beyond his authority. It is not a law. The Democrats could have passed any law they wanted the first two years of Mr. Obama's presidency but elected not to act. There is no reason Mr. Trump can not reverse this policy. I didn't like it when Mr. Obama did it and you don't like it when Mr. Trump unwinds it. Executive orders come and go. Only legislation lasts.
35
Bill, your claim about what Democrats could have done during Obama's first two years is wildly exaggerated to the point of being an outright falsehood. .It is true that Democrats held a majority in both houses in the 111th Congress (2009-2010). But in order to overcome a minority filibuster in the Senate, 60 votes are needed. Democrats never held 60 seats in the Senate in the 111th Congress -- not for even a single day. At NO point in the 111th Congress (2009-2010) did Democrats ever have more than 58 votes.
The only hope Democrats had of overcoming Republican filibusters, against lockstep Republican support for those filibusters, was if the two Independents, Senators Sanders and Lieberman, were willing to vote along with Democrats on cloture votes. Senator Sanders was, and is, a pretty reliable ally of Democrats, but Senator Lieberman, who had been a Democrat prior to the 2008 elections, was in a snit over the fact that the Democratic Party in his home state of Connecticut had decided they preferred Lieberman's primary challenger as their Senate Candidate over Lieberman himself. As a result, Lieberman was frequently supporting GOP filibusters.
In fact, there was a period of less than two months that Democrats could have counted the 60 votes to overcome Republican filibusters. For a more complete analysis and timeline, see https://www.facebook.com/notes/mark-kessinger/republican-lie-597-pres-ob...
The only hope Democrats had of overcoming Republican filibusters, against lockstep Republican support for those filibusters, was if the two Independents, Senators Sanders and Lieberman, were willing to vote along with Democrats on cloture votes. Senator Sanders was, and is, a pretty reliable ally of Democrats, but Senator Lieberman, who had been a Democrat prior to the 2008 elections, was in a snit over the fact that the Democratic Party in his home state of Connecticut had decided they preferred Lieberman's primary challenger as their Senate Candidate over Lieberman himself. As a result, Lieberman was frequently supporting GOP filibusters.
In fact, there was a period of less than two months that Democrats could have counted the 60 votes to overcome Republican filibusters. For a more complete analysis and timeline, see https://www.facebook.com/notes/mark-kessinger/republican-lie-597-pres-ob...
106
Hogwash.
You can't have it both ways. "Unconstitutional and beyond his (Obama's ) authority?" But the Muslim Ban wasn't either unconstitutional nor beyond the Authority of the failed-"president" Trump?
DACA wasn't successfully challenged in the courts the way the Muslim travel ban was...why do you suppose that was?
There is no question whatsoever that Republicans pick and choose their facts to support the conclusions they have already drawn, regardless of the facts.
How about trying being an American first and trying for solutions that work for us all?
You can't have it both ways. "Unconstitutional and beyond his (Obama's ) authority?" But the Muslim Ban wasn't either unconstitutional nor beyond the Authority of the failed-"president" Trump?
DACA wasn't successfully challenged in the courts the way the Muslim travel ban was...why do you suppose that was?
There is no question whatsoever that Republicans pick and choose their facts to support the conclusions they have already drawn, regardless of the facts.
How about trying being an American first and trying for solutions that work for us all?
5
All Americans should be outraged at the potential end of DACA for many reasons. First is the fairness issue. These "kids" consider the U.S. to be their country. They have played by the rules although their parents did not have the required paperwork to enter the country.
Second, the thought that the government could use personal information gathered by DACA applicants under promises that that it could not be used against them by ICE agents should send a chill through anyone concerned about individual rights and government authority. If this goes unchallenged it sets a dangerous precedent.
Finally, there is the question of who we are as a country. Deporting these productive young people does not serve the national interest and is just plain "mean." Congress needs to pass legislation to provide a pathway for legal status before this travesty occurs.
Second, the thought that the government could use personal information gathered by DACA applicants under promises that that it could not be used against them by ICE agents should send a chill through anyone concerned about individual rights and government authority. If this goes unchallenged it sets a dangerous precedent.
Finally, there is the question of who we are as a country. Deporting these productive young people does not serve the national interest and is just plain "mean." Congress needs to pass legislation to provide a pathway for legal status before this travesty occurs.
219
How about a little fairness for American citizens. For example, how many of these "dreamers" are taking jobs from African Americans who have high un-employment rates? How about fairness to me as a taxpayer asked to educate and in some cases support people here illegally? How about fairness for these of us who obey the law? I note that you say they are productive young people. Any statistics other than the anecdotal doctor, EMT, or plumber?
40
But the Dreamers did not break the law, personally. Their parents brought them here when they were still dependent on their parents. Why punish the children for laws broken by their parents? Why not accept that they are here and mostly productive tax paying citizens. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? Admit they aren't criminals and that they are contributing to society and that you will benefit from their contributions including the taxes they pay? What about the SS taxes they pay but get no credit for but which help support the Social Security system?
13
Bill,
If you are putting forth and argument, aren't you supposed to supply the data that back your points up?
If you are putting forth and argument, aren't you supposed to supply the data that back your points up?
7
I think most of us have sympathy for those who were brought here by parents that broke the law. But citizens of this country are not responsible for choices your parents made, nor are we required to correct for them in the way someone here illegally may wish.
And this author and most others on this topic never seems to answer the question.
How can you have a system where the immigration rules are optional or tossed out the window for some people and not for all the rest, meaning all of those that follow the laws and apply for an immigrant visa and then a green card, assuming they want to stay here legally. And often spend years in line trying to establish legal residency per the rules.
How is it fair or just that rules apply to some and not to all equally. Some want to jump to the front but most have to get in line and follow the law.
I think most of us are in favor of immigration, but want it done legally, with everyone required to go through the same process.
It doesn't seem fair to have one system for one subset and another system for all other immigrants.
And when you allow massive exceptions to the rules, you naturally incentivize others to try and follow that route in the future. We either have laws or we don't, but chaos in some form is insured if there are no rules.
And this author and most others on this topic never seems to answer the question.
How can you have a system where the immigration rules are optional or tossed out the window for some people and not for all the rest, meaning all of those that follow the laws and apply for an immigrant visa and then a green card, assuming they want to stay here legally. And often spend years in line trying to establish legal residency per the rules.
How is it fair or just that rules apply to some and not to all equally. Some want to jump to the front but most have to get in line and follow the law.
I think most of us are in favor of immigration, but want it done legally, with everyone required to go through the same process.
It doesn't seem fair to have one system for one subset and another system for all other immigrants.
And when you allow massive exceptions to the rules, you naturally incentivize others to try and follow that route in the future. We either have laws or we don't, but chaos in some form is insured if there are no rules.
80
I'm a naturalized citizen. As are members of my family and many friends. All believe you should follow the law on the tried and true path to citizenship. It might not be PC, but ignore the law, reap the rewards.
50
How does that apply in this situation? If people are brought to the US as children by their parents, why are they responsible for their illegal status? How does that connect with your point? The circumstances you, your parents and friends are in seem completely different.
16
What about the American Presidents and Congress which did not attempt to enforce the immigration laws for decades creating a situation where people had no reasonable expectation that their children would be deported? Don't they bear more responsibility for this nightmarish situation than do the kids who were brought in?
4
The "executive branch" and the American "legal system" are bedfellows both drawing from the same establishment elite. The so-called "democracy" was never more than a clever pretence. The people have no control over matters of peace and war nor over economic circumstances.
5
Trump's stance is that the Constitution empowers Congress, not the executive branch, to regulate immigration and naturalization. He plans to ask Congress to settle the DACA issue.
12
Hey, immigration IS a Congressional issue, as a plenary power --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenary_power
Obama made this legal "nightmare," just to buy votes with taxpayer earnings. Now, adults have to mop it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenary_power
Obama made this legal "nightmare," just to buy votes with taxpayer earnings. Now, adults have to mop it up.
1
DACA is unconstitutional and illegal. Language is important here. The so called Victims are not "Dreamers", they are "Illegals". They were brought to this country illegally and with the explicit intent of violating our immigration law and counting on the sympathy of some of our Citizens to allow their children, and indeed themselves, to circumvent legal immigration pathways and our laws. If DACA stands the current President should take the legal precedent to the next level and prohibit enforcement of Federal Tax Laws for any who choose not pay Federal Income Tax.
70
You don't seem to understand the basic principle of action and responsibility for it. "They were brought to this country illegally" is not an action a person is responsible for. It was the responsibility of the federal government to prevent their arrival in the first place, and they failed at it with the result that a child was raised here. Punishing a person because their parent did something illegal is not only hideously immoral, but is plainly contrary in the most basic sense to any constitution written by any country that claims it is a democracy.
7
So you are saying that if a man broke into your home and occupied it w/his 5 children while you were away on vacation entitles the children to live in your home because they can not be responsible for having been brought into your home by their father?
Would the same apply to a man that robbed a bank and gave the money to his children? Are his children allowed to keep the stolen money because they themselves did not rob the bank?
Your idea of "immoral" had absolutely no bearing on the written law.
In the case of illegal immigration no one can legally enter/remain in US territory w/out permission by the government; there is no exception for someone "brought here".
Would the same apply to a man that robbed a bank and gave the money to his children? Are his children allowed to keep the stolen money because they themselves did not rob the bank?
Your idea of "immoral" had absolutely no bearing on the written law.
In the case of illegal immigration no one can legally enter/remain in US territory w/out permission by the government; there is no exception for someone "brought here".
8
Here in California undocumented workers contributed $180 billion to the economy last year. Contrast this with immigration enforcement — through ICE and the Border Patrol — that costs more than all other federal law enforcement agencies combined; $306 billion in all since 1986--when Ronald Reagan granted amnesty to all illegal immigrants. This exceeds the sum of all spending for the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Secret Service, the Marshals Service, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trumps-immigration-cutbacks-hurt-econ...
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trumps-immigration-cutbacks-hurt-econ...
2
Trump can’t grant citizenship or legal resident status to DACA enrollee. A federal court ruled that the proposed Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents (DAPA), which would have protected parents of DACA enrollees from deportation, exceeded presidential authority. Now 10 states have joined together to challenge the constitutionality of DACA. The Justice Department and Homeland Security Department, which administers DACA, appear to think the DACA program would not survive a legal battle. However, Congress can grant citizenship or legal permanent resident status to DACA enrollees.
Congress should grant DACA enrollees citizenship, but in the same piece of legislation it should empower states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions. At the same time, it should make E-Verify mandatory nationwide and change asylum laws to deny asylum to anyone who enters the country illegally. In a separate piece of legislation, it should initiate a process to reinterpret or, if necessary, amend the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents.
These measures may seem harsh, but if they are put into effect, illegal immigrants will stop coming. We wouldn't need the border wall. The Border Patrol wouldn't have to pursue illegal border crossers into the desert. There would be no ICE raids. Deportations wouldn't separate families.
Congress should grant DACA enrollees citizenship, but in the same piece of legislation it should empower states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions. At the same time, it should make E-Verify mandatory nationwide and change asylum laws to deny asylum to anyone who enters the country illegally. In a separate piece of legislation, it should initiate a process to reinterpret or, if necessary, amend the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents.
These measures may seem harsh, but if they are put into effect, illegal immigrants will stop coming. We wouldn't need the border wall. The Border Patrol wouldn't have to pursue illegal border crossers into the desert. There would be no ICE raids. Deportations wouldn't separate families.
30
These measures are not "harsh" but attack the very basis of the idea of citizenship in a democracy. Have you thought of what the status would be of a person born in the US but denied citizenship if no other citizenship is forthcoming? What then of a stateless population? The US supreme court has long ruled that the constitution applies to all who reside or are present within the borders of the country. Keeping someone stateless, literally with no status, is a discrimination in the most basic sense and flies in the face of "All Men are created equal," since at "creation" a person is instantly considered legally unequal simply by having parents of a certain kind. This is plain nonsense. People with such ideas should move to another country if they want to live under "blood and soil" rules. Hint: avoid Western Europe; not even Germany or Switzerland will work.
1
Ten states? You sure about that? Tennessee dropped out three days ago, intimating that the lawsuit is basically mean.
2
@Yasser Taima in Pacific Palisades, only about 20% of the 190+ nations in the world have birthright citizenship. The following countries recently repealed birthright citizenship because of abuses resulting from globalization: Australia (2007); New Zealand (2005);
Ireland (2005); France (1993); India (1987); Malta (1989);
UK (1983); and Portugal (1981). Germany and Japan do not have birthright citizenship.
Birthright citizenship was written into the US Constitution to ensure citizenship for the former slaves and their children in the wake of the US Civil War. It was not intended to reward an unforeseeable anchor baby phenomenon in a globalized world nor to reward abuses of the chain migration provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 that came 100 years after the Civil War.
If the US does not join the 80% majority of the rest of the world who repealed birthright citizenship or never had it, it is at least past due to legislatively or judicially clarify that birthright citizenship was meant for the former slaves and their descendants and does not apply to illegal aliens who have children within US borders; nor to birthright tourists.
The phrase, "All Men Are Created Equal" is an aspirational phrase but has no legal authority. It is not part of the US Constitution. It is from a part of the Declaration of Independence.
Ireland (2005); France (1993); India (1987); Malta (1989);
UK (1983); and Portugal (1981). Germany and Japan do not have birthright citizenship.
Birthright citizenship was written into the US Constitution to ensure citizenship for the former slaves and their children in the wake of the US Civil War. It was not intended to reward an unforeseeable anchor baby phenomenon in a globalized world nor to reward abuses of the chain migration provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 that came 100 years after the Civil War.
If the US does not join the 80% majority of the rest of the world who repealed birthright citizenship or never had it, it is at least past due to legislatively or judicially clarify that birthright citizenship was meant for the former slaves and their descendants and does not apply to illegal aliens who have children within US borders; nor to birthright tourists.
The phrase, "All Men Are Created Equal" is an aspirational phrase but has no legal authority. It is not part of the US Constitution. It is from a part of the Declaration of Independence.
10
As it happens one might want to argue exactly the reverse of the author's position. The logic seems to be that even if a Dreamer violated immigration statutes that doing so was a consequence of a minor directed in behavior by parents. Should the child be subject to punishment because of decisions made by a family head? The liberal tendency is to say "no". But if we say "yes" it opens some intriguing possibilities. For example, children riding in cars exceeding the speed limit, even though the parent is driving, could be held to be guilty of speeding. Systematically applying this logic could greatly reduce traffic congestion in a few years time by creating a generation of young adults ineligible to drive until they are middle-aged. Insurance rates might drop as well. If we are going to hold young people responsible for undocumented entry into the United States because their parents brought them here when the child was a year old then we have no reason not to hold one-year-olds guilty of speeding, reckless driving, and perhaps even driving under the influence. That will teach them to do do a better job of parental selection.
188
The false equivalencies in your post are myriad and without merit as to the legal situation. First, believing that the law should, or is, logical is a fallacy, as any lawyer will tell you. It's hopelessly idealistic as to how legislation is constructed and even more so as to its application.
Moreover, we have hundreds, if not thousands, of laws that are in conflict with the "systematic" application of logic that you speak of, yet the system trucks on. You don't legislate because of how it will influence unrelated issues or you'd be mired in the quicksand of your specious argument for generations.
Moreover, we have hundreds, if not thousands, of laws that are in conflict with the "systematic" application of logic that you speak of, yet the system trucks on. You don't legislate because of how it will influence unrelated issues or you'd be mired in the quicksand of your specious argument for generations.
3
American homeless shelters are full of American children whose parent(s) lost the only home those children knew because the parent(s) could not make mortgage payments. Not the childrens' fault, and yet, I hear no clamor to put those children back in their homes -- something we might be able to do, except for the overwhelming national financial burden of dealing with illegal aliens.
10
Correct -- both child and parent should return to country of origin.That would be fair to legal Americans and their law-making.
8
This administration has shown that it is willing to do things that are ''above the law'' in achieving their agenda. ( prime example the Arpaio pardon )
Having said that, commenting thoughts of outrage here and other places is not going to get it done. Wherever possible, we must be active and proactive. We must phone. fax, email all people of Congress for help. We must get off our duffs ( we should have done so in voting ) to march and physically show up to offices of members of Congress as well. We must show in numbers, that it is unconscionable to deport children.
Even if we do all of the above, this administration may direct police and government forces to do as they wish anyways. ( not worrying about the destruction at all )
For those dreamers, there is only one bit of advice. Hang on .
Having said that, commenting thoughts of outrage here and other places is not going to get it done. Wherever possible, we must be active and proactive. We must phone. fax, email all people of Congress for help. We must get off our duffs ( we should have done so in voting ) to march and physically show up to offices of members of Congress as well. We must show in numbers, that it is unconscionable to deport children.
Even if we do all of the above, this administration may direct police and government forces to do as they wish anyways. ( not worrying about the destruction at all )
For those dreamers, there is only one bit of advice. Hang on .
80
Abandoning DACA reveals America at it's worst: angry, xenophobic, totally lacking in compassion. That, however, is not us. There has always been a bigoted minority - now, by arcane election math, they have a president. But it just won't wash with most Americans. We may not always be "the last, best hope of mankind", but our compasses are set for that, and we will, without doubt, shed ourselves of this darkness. Yes, hang on, dreamers.
9
A man enters into your home while you are away on vacation; he has his 6 children w/him.
When you return you find said man and his 6 (needy to boot) children squatting in your home.
What are you going to do?
By your own logic it would be "unconscionable" to remove these children? Correct?
Just because the father broke the law by breaking into/occupying your home we certainly can not punish the children.
When you return you find said man and his 6 (needy to boot) children squatting in your home.
What are you going to do?
By your own logic it would be "unconscionable" to remove these children? Correct?
Just because the father broke the law by breaking into/occupying your home we certainly can not punish the children.
9
Arpaio was convicted of criminal contempt of court, which sounds terrible but is a misdemeanor offense usually settled by a fine. No one seriously doubts that Trump acted within his constitutional powers in granting the pardon. The constitution clearly states the only exception are impeachments.
Trump will probably ask Congress to grant DACA enrollees citizenship as part of a package containing other measures designed to bolster border security and better enforce immigration laws. People should fax their congressmen to vote in favor of such a package.
Trump will probably ask Congress to grant DACA enrollees citizenship as part of a package containing other measures designed to bolster border security and better enforce immigration laws. People should fax their congressmen to vote in favor of such a package.
4
they should be allowed to return to their home countries and apply for a visa to come back legally to the US and the fact that they were once illegally here should NOT adversely affect their application. i think that's the fair way to do it.
62
It is not fair to the dreamers,they were brought to the US when they were minors. If they are now young adults, productive members of society, improving themselves, and have no criminal records then giving them the opportunity to become permanent residents and eventually naturalized citizens is the right and American thing to do.
If presidents can and do grant pardon to convicted felons, maybe dreamers should get a break.
If presidents can and do grant pardon to convicted felons, maybe dreamers should get a break.
94
But the U.S. is the "home country" of people who came here as small children. They don't know the country of their parents.
7
ak....what if they don't have the money for airfare? what if it takes years to get back into the usa? what if trump orders immigration to bottle things up?
2
Yeah, I've always found obeying the law cruel!