Meanwhile the Trump regime remains silent and continues to seek good relations with the genocidal Myanmar regime, a policy started by the Obama administration.
2
This is not verified but someone has mentioned on Twitter - but the person who re-tweeted it is a NYT reporter - the Hindus are also targeted. The mob is no Buddhists but just a mob who got drunk with power. They have betrayed their own faith just as ISIL and other extremists have betrayed Islam
1
Has Trump spoken about this? I know nothing about these folks and what kind of Muslims they are, if they are Salafists or any of the ilk of Pakistanis from the tribal regions or 212ers in Indonesia I would not want them in America.
It looks like the military is handling their problem in a most brutish way.
Aung San Suu Kyi should have spoken out regardless of her meaningless position but the military played her and won.
It looks like the military is handling their problem in a most brutish way.
Aung San Suu Kyi should have spoken out regardless of her meaningless position but the military played her and won.
2
No matter what era of history I've studied, as an undergrad or graduate student and beyond, one of the main questions I always returned to was how a person/people could so easily transition from one 'state' (literally and figuratively) into another. The Demos of Athens are now the Hegemons of the Delian League. The Roman Republic is now the autocratic Empire. The teachings of a gentle Christ wielded-- as are swords-- by a hierarchical Church. Where did the greatness and the ideals go? How did the zeitgeist change?
Then I read 'A Woman in Berlin', an anonymous autobiography purportedly written by Marta Hillers. I count it as one of the ten books that truly changed my life and the way I understand the world and humanity.
"Was I for… or against? What’s clear is that I was there, that I breathed what was in the air, and it affected all of us even if we didn’t want it to."
As I watch such horrors as described in this article and/or the rise of Trump and the increasing agitation of his followers, and note the frightening similarities to the historical patterns carved into time by the meandering yet relentless waters of human nature again and again and I'm forced to once more agree with Santayana-- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Then I read 'A Woman in Berlin', an anonymous autobiography purportedly written by Marta Hillers. I count it as one of the ten books that truly changed my life and the way I understand the world and humanity.
"Was I for… or against? What’s clear is that I was there, that I breathed what was in the air, and it affected all of us even if we didn’t want it to."
As I watch such horrors as described in this article and/or the rise of Trump and the increasing agitation of his followers, and note the frightening similarities to the historical patterns carved into time by the meandering yet relentless waters of human nature again and again and I'm forced to once more agree with Santayana-- "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
9
This is the type of article where Times comments are quite useful and informative rather than simply saying "Yaaay!" or "Boo!" There are quite a few comments adding information, history, and perspective. In the early days of the Syrian conflict much the same occurred in these pages. Readers who actually had some experience with the subject were almost the only ones interested in even following what was going on, and they were, for the most part, the ones commenting.
In a way it is parallel to B.B.C. coverage of those African countries which used to be British colonies. What goes on there currently is of little interest to most folks outside the region, but one legacy of their imperialist past is that the British do have people knowledgeable about these countries and their peoples.
In a way it is parallel to B.B.C. coverage of those African countries which used to be British colonies. What goes on there currently is of little interest to most folks outside the region, but one legacy of their imperialist past is that the British do have people knowledgeable about these countries and their peoples.
8
Note that China, which loudly posits itself to be a world power and claims all of Asia as its own sphere of influence is silent and nowhere to be found in addressing this political and human disaster within earshot of its own borders. What a surprise.
6
Militants have not given government forces a "reason" to attack villages and kill civilians. It is, at best, an excuse.
2
What is so sad is that the civilians bear the brunt of violent clashes between their Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) and government forces, which see the militants as terrorists.
But violence begets violence. There have been waves of deadly clashes in recent years, with attacks being carried out by ARSA. Before then there had been no indication of an armed insurgency, despite the ethnic tensions. The operation the military and Buddhist mobs have launched as a retaliatory crackdown after recent attacks that left 12 members of the security forces dead, borders on ethnic cleansing.
Accused of not doing enough to curb persecution of Rohingya Muslims, Aung San Suu Kyi may be hoping for divine intervention that could allow her some breathing space. Myanmar or she has invited Pope Francis to visit Myanmar this coming November. He has been a vocal critic of Myanmar’s harsh treatment of its Rohingya Muslim population. But it won't make much of an impact on the Buddhist fundamentalists.
But violence begets violence. There have been waves of deadly clashes in recent years, with attacks being carried out by ARSA. Before then there had been no indication of an armed insurgency, despite the ethnic tensions. The operation the military and Buddhist mobs have launched as a retaliatory crackdown after recent attacks that left 12 members of the security forces dead, borders on ethnic cleansing.
Accused of not doing enough to curb persecution of Rohingya Muslims, Aung San Suu Kyi may be hoping for divine intervention that could allow her some breathing space. Myanmar or she has invited Pope Francis to visit Myanmar this coming November. He has been a vocal critic of Myanmar’s harsh treatment of its Rohingya Muslim population. But it won't make much of an impact on the Buddhist fundamentalists.
4
Thanks to the Nobel BS Prize !
1
Muslims, just like virtually every conflict they are a party in around the world, are not innocent victims in Myanmar. The violence innocent Rohingya are facing is abhorrent, but it stems from yet another case of Islamic expansionism and aggression which the native Burmese are simply retaliating against.
It takes a special kind of savagery to piss off peaceful Buddhists the way these Islamists in Myanmar have.
It takes a special kind of savagery to piss off peaceful Buddhists the way these Islamists in Myanmar have.
7
Isn't 'violent Buddhist' an oxymoron? I thought that was only a description for moslems.
2
Hypocrisy is the one ritual all religions and ideologies are glad to preach when push comes to shove and long-desired ends-- whether a paradise in the afterlife or a social utopia here and now on earth-- cry out for the use of ugly but efficient means.
2
This is what I call lazy journalism. Writing with "an angle" for the story rather than facts.
Anywhere in the world, if a police post or military post is attacked in the name of the religion, it will be retaliated by brute force. It happens in US, it happened in Burma, it can and will help anywhere in the world. These background facts are missing from the story.
Aung Snn Suu Kyii has limited power. She doesn't control the military. Blaming her is to jump to conclusions.
Sauid Arabia, like elsewhere in the world funded the Islamic extremists in Burma. But, doesn't show up with any money for refugees. Neither do any other Muslim country.
It is sad that innocents always get caught in the middle and suffer. But, why should Buddhists not defend when their homes, places of learning and worship are attacked? There is history here - Hordes of muslims massacred buddhist monks in their monasteries while in prayer.
Bangladesh, a muslim country oppresses Rohingiyas. Bangladeshi muslims consider Rohingiyas as sub-standard muslims and sent them all to a small island in the Indian Ocean.
Every life is precious, every suffering heart breaking. But, these tinted stories do not help.
Anywhere in the world, if a police post or military post is attacked in the name of the religion, it will be retaliated by brute force. It happens in US, it happened in Burma, it can and will help anywhere in the world. These background facts are missing from the story.
Aung Snn Suu Kyii has limited power. She doesn't control the military. Blaming her is to jump to conclusions.
Sauid Arabia, like elsewhere in the world funded the Islamic extremists in Burma. But, doesn't show up with any money for refugees. Neither do any other Muslim country.
It is sad that innocents always get caught in the middle and suffer. But, why should Buddhists not defend when their homes, places of learning and worship are attacked? There is history here - Hordes of muslims massacred buddhist monks in their monasteries while in prayer.
Bangladesh, a muslim country oppresses Rohingiyas. Bangladeshi muslims consider Rohingiyas as sub-standard muslims and sent them all to a small island in the Indian Ocean.
Every life is precious, every suffering heart breaking. But, these tinted stories do not help.
7
The beat goes on. State-sponsored genocide did not die with Hitler. Since 1945 It has continued, emerging worldwide, first here, then there -- like a rat-borne plague.
3
One thing for certain: You will never see the Buddhist nations of Asia mindlessly allowing millions of muslim immigrants into their nations.The secular progressives who run Western Europe and share their American cousin's disdain for organized Christianity and Judaism have planted the seeds which will forever change the face of their nations. Idiocy is the only word which comes to mind to describe officials who allow millions of people who have no desire to assimilate to local values to settle amongst them. Idiocy or self-hate. Take your pick.
8
Buddhism used to be the only belief system without blood on its hands! Now that has changed! As a Buddhist I am ashamed at Aung San Suu Kiy! She was held under house arrest for years and now this!? I guess her compassion left the building. I used to admire her but no longer. Even he Buddha would be disappointed with her lack of morality! Time she abandoned her ego and saw the truth!
3
Life is cheap in so much of the world.
2
The video accompanying this story is excellent.
Main problem is uncontrolled population growth of Bangladeshi Muslims, and they are migrating in an uncontrolled manner in all the neighboring countries and Hindu population in Bangladesh feel so insecure that Most of the Hindus have left Bangladesh , so Hindu Population in Bangladesh have come down to only 7 percent from 31 percent in 1947 , when Britishers left Indian Subcontinent. Even after such migration of Hindus from Bangladesh the population of Muslims in neighboring West Bengal of India have become 30 percent from 17 percent in 1947. And here are some fact about Rohingya Muslims - Though international Media and Human Rights groups consider Rohingya Muslims to be a persecuted community, facts speak otherwise. An unbiased look at the history of Burma says that violence was always initiated by the Rohingya Muslims.
Rohingyas wanted to be a part of East Pakistan in 1940s
In 1997, a centuries old Buddha Statue was destroyed by Rohingya Muslims in Maha Myatmuni pagoda, Mandalay. During the same time, the Brutal Gang Rape of a Buddhist Girl by Rohingya Muslims triggered violent mob clashes in Myanmar.
The 2012 Rakhine Riots were engineered after 3 Rohingya Muslims were convicted of raping a local Rakhine Buddhist Woman. They burnt several Buddhist homes after friday prayer on June 8th 2012.
On October 9th 2016, 9 Burmese Policemen were slaughtered by Rohingya Terrorists
Rohingyas wanted to be a part of East Pakistan in 1940s
In 1997, a centuries old Buddha Statue was destroyed by Rohingya Muslims in Maha Myatmuni pagoda, Mandalay. During the same time, the Brutal Gang Rape of a Buddhist Girl by Rohingya Muslims triggered violent mob clashes in Myanmar.
The 2012 Rakhine Riots were engineered after 3 Rohingya Muslims were convicted of raping a local Rakhine Buddhist Woman. They burnt several Buddhist homes after friday prayer on June 8th 2012.
On October 9th 2016, 9 Burmese Policemen were slaughtered by Rohingya Terrorists
12
Very true!
Neither the story nor video explained why these people were considered "stateless" even before fleeing.
2
Well........the Rohingya could quit their cult and join civilization.
4
Seems to me the only solution to this is for the Republic of Myanmar to grant citizenship to the Rohingya people.
The claim by Myanmar that the Rohingya people are illegal immigrants from the neighboring Bengali area (Bangladesh) may may be partly true of some of the Rohingya people, but there is historical evidence of their settlement in that area of Myanmar dating back at least a couple of hundred years - if not longer - and they pretty much all live in the Rakhine State in Myanmar.
Representing only about 2% of the population of Myanmar, I can't see how granting them citizenship could upset the culture much. Granted, there are radicalized Muslims among the Rohingya, as indicated in this article, but if the Rohingya people were made citizens, that issue could be dealt by the police under criminal law - and granting citizenship would also remove and address a grievance that has led to much of the radicalization.
There would still be religious tensions if citizenship is granted, of course, but I don't see how they could be any worse than they are now, and I feel they would be correspondingly mitigated and reduced by redressing this grievance of the Rohingya.
The claim by Myanmar that the Rohingya people are illegal immigrants from the neighboring Bengali area (Bangladesh) may may be partly true of some of the Rohingya people, but there is historical evidence of their settlement in that area of Myanmar dating back at least a couple of hundred years - if not longer - and they pretty much all live in the Rakhine State in Myanmar.
Representing only about 2% of the population of Myanmar, I can't see how granting them citizenship could upset the culture much. Granted, there are radicalized Muslims among the Rohingya, as indicated in this article, but if the Rohingya people were made citizens, that issue could be dealt by the police under criminal law - and granting citizenship would also remove and address a grievance that has led to much of the radicalization.
There would still be religious tensions if citizenship is granted, of course, but I don't see how they could be any worse than they are now, and I feel they would be correspondingly mitigated and reduced by redressing this grievance of the Rohingya.
The Muslims in Myanmar are now 21%, not 2% as a result of illegal, economic, migrants from neighboring Bengladesh with 165 millions compare to Myanmar 's 52 millions continuesly pouring into Myanmar 's porous border illegally for many years now n it's getting worst now.
Killing in the name of the one true god has always been the main reason for so much misery, death and the complete annihilation of entire group of people. It is the same everywhere, instigates by every religion there is. We do it because the god we worship tell us so and who are we to question the authority, wisdom and command of the powerful being we bow down to? So for as long as there are more than one religions being practiced, expect the 'righteous killings' in the name of god to continue until there is one and only one religion or none left.
Pathetic that since the findings of the human genome project and other discoveries, wherein it was realized that all humans are the same, just coming in different sizes, shapes, genders, and innate behaviors, we are all people just the same. It's the ignorant ideas we teach ourselves since birth that divides us. So until 2000 I can understand the hatred promoted for the centuries, but since, those who keep the information about our equality a secret are those I hold responsible
1
I am perplexed by the fact that not a single Islamic country wants to take them as refugees. How many of them have been found in India? 50,000+ in far off Hyderabad and Kashmir (yes Kashmir). Turned out that American NGO have been helping them. Why not Americans take them as refugees.
Eventual these 50,000 refugees in India will turn against India. No good deed ever goes unpunished.
Eventual these 50,000 refugees in India will turn against India. No good deed ever goes unpunished.
3
You mean like the Sri Lankan Tamils, who the Sinhalese Buddhist militant allies of those in Burma, accused of "turning against them" thus justifying their mass atrocities?
True, the American NzGOs are reportedly found helping Bengali terrorists activities in Myanmar now. They just fled from there after the Myanmar Army found out about them.
What a sad old story. Aug San Suu Kyi had moral courage until she got into power and now all she and her supporters have are excuses. What exactly did she fight for? Her silence needs condemnation, the noble committee should do the unprecedented, withdraw its prize.
2
There are parallels to this and Syria. The insurgents are waging a guerrilla war in Syria, with no hope of wining, and the same is happening in Myanmar.
In both cases, our supposed ally Saudi Arabia is arming the insurgents.
Do the insurgents think that their cause will be advanced by waging a guerrilla war? Do they think that the government will just ignore the insurgent attacks, in both Syria and Myanmar?
In both cases, the civilians suffer, which is terrible, and would have mostly ben avoided without Saudi interference and funding.
Saudi Arabia should be there to help pick up the pieces, after they are done with another conflict zone that they are involved in, Yemen.
In both cases, our supposed ally Saudi Arabia is arming the insurgents.
Do the insurgents think that their cause will be advanced by waging a guerrilla war? Do they think that the government will just ignore the insurgent attacks, in both Syria and Myanmar?
In both cases, the civilians suffer, which is terrible, and would have mostly ben avoided without Saudi interference and funding.
Saudi Arabia should be there to help pick up the pieces, after they are done with another conflict zone that they are involved in, Yemen.
2
It seems that all over the world it is very hard to keep peace between different ethnicities, religions, races, and what have you. Military rule while never ideal and never effective in the long run is what keeps the warring factions apart. Even in the west, democracy has worked because of them being homogeneous more or less.
We humans are all programmed to destroy each other.
We humans are all programmed to destroy each other.
3
While we all suffer with those in the devastation of the Houston floods, let us not waver in our commitment to all who suffer around the world. While the NY Times devoted most of its attention to Houston as did all US media, floods swept away over 1200 people in India and the refugees of Myanmar were being slaughtered.
It is time for the US to stop being so self-absorbed. When one suffers in the world, we ALL suffer.
Political boundaries and rhetoric should not define our compassion, our concern, and our care
It is time for the US to stop being so self-absorbed. When one suffers in the world, we ALL suffer.
Political boundaries and rhetoric should not define our compassion, our concern, and our care
1
Who knew that ethnic sectarian supremacy was not uniquely European Christian?
The historical victims of ethnic sectarian Asian Buddhist Shinto Han Japanese Thai Khmer Vietnamese Bamar etc, supremacist knew.
The historical victims of ethnic sectarian Asian Buddhist Shinto Han Japanese Thai Khmer Vietnamese Bamar etc, supremacist knew.
3
Is there any relief organization on the ground that we can donate to?
1
The United Nations just suspended a day or two ago its food aid to the refugees, because the danger from the violence is too great for aid workers.
The treatment of the Rohingya is an illustration of applied Buddhism. Perhaps the Buddhist monks who campaign for the persecution of the Rohingya are doing it mindfully.
2
Is there any organization trying to help these people at all? NYT your reporters are on-site or as near as they can be, Please help identify organizations that are providing any help.
2
So where is the outrage from the Editorial Board and the conga line of anti-Suu Kyi journalists? Where are the Olympian thunderbolts?
Narendra Modi was exonerated in the 2002 religious riots and yet has been vilified and held personally responsible for them. Suu Kyi on the other hand, gets a free pass for going along with the Myanmar Generals.
She is complicit in these crimes against humanity. There is no room to 'work from the inside'.
Narendra Modi was exonerated in the 2002 religious riots and yet has been vilified and held personally responsible for them. Suu Kyi on the other hand, gets a free pass for going along with the Myanmar Generals.
She is complicit in these crimes against humanity. There is no room to 'work from the inside'.
3
They are both genocidal monsters and no Modi was never absolved by an objective inquiry-read the Human Rights Watch report on the Gujrat Pogrom.
1
During the time of British colonial rule a few hundred Bengalis were brought to work as farmers. When East Pakistan became Bangladesh in 1971, many poor people rushed to prosperous Burma. When authorities checked the immigration status of all people in Arakan State in 1980, the illegals without ID cards fled to Bangladesh. It happened again in 1992-93.
Last year a few thousands fled there again after rebellious elements killed nine police officers in an ambush. Again on August 25, the rebel group called Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) attacked 30 police stations and an army base killing 13 security forces, two government officers, 14 civilians and wounding scores. When Burmese army fought them back, the rebels burnt down houses of Muslims, Arakans, Myos, Kaman Muslims and Hindus.
The rebels kill indiscriminately. Since October of last year, they have killed about 70 Muslim village administrators and even librarians as they were caught talking to government officials.
It is preposterous to accuse Burmese/Arakan Buddhists of driving Muslims away. While a few thousands of people badmouthing about Burma due to different reasons, more than three million Sunnis and Shiites are happily doing their own routines in the country. And nearly a million Bengali Muslims calmly remain in their homes in Arakan who are even looking for Bengali trouble makers from ARSA. A few days ago, those villagers arrested 7 Muslim terrorists, handed over to the police and promised to catch more.
Last year a few thousands fled there again after rebellious elements killed nine police officers in an ambush. Again on August 25, the rebel group called Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA) attacked 30 police stations and an army base killing 13 security forces, two government officers, 14 civilians and wounding scores. When Burmese army fought them back, the rebels burnt down houses of Muslims, Arakans, Myos, Kaman Muslims and Hindus.
The rebels kill indiscriminately. Since October of last year, they have killed about 70 Muslim village administrators and even librarians as they were caught talking to government officials.
It is preposterous to accuse Burmese/Arakan Buddhists of driving Muslims away. While a few thousands of people badmouthing about Burma due to different reasons, more than three million Sunnis and Shiites are happily doing their own routines in the country. And nearly a million Bengali Muslims calmly remain in their homes in Arakan who are even looking for Bengali trouble makers from ARSA. A few days ago, those villagers arrested 7 Muslim terrorists, handed over to the police and promised to catch more.
5
Very true !
This report should not leave it to my comment and others below to point out that pogroms against the Rohingya have been going on for years. Any resistance some may be showing in the present is a pitiful response to outrages that have gone unpunished and barely noticed by a world all too happy to see Aung Sang Suu Kyi out in public again. She must beware that she doesn't become a fig leaf for new versions of the kinds of horrors committed against both majority and minority Burmese citizens by the military for decades. The difference between the Rohingya and other, more traditional, Burmese minorities is that they were peaceable and vulnerable from the beginning, no threat of any sort to Burmese integrity enjoying no outside support whatsoever, unlike the Karen, etc., and targets of "popular" aggression before the military got involved.
2
Why is the USA not speaking out and demanding a UN Security Council meeting over this travesty? Probably because Trump doesn't consider the deaths of Muslims to be a problem.
6
This is the type of article where Times comments are quite useful and informative rather than simply saying "Yaaay!" or "Boo!" There are quite a few comments adding information, history, and perspective. In the early days of the Syrian conflict much the same occurred in these pages. Readers who actually had some experience with the subject were almost the only ones interested in even following what was going on.
In a way it is parallel to B.B.C. coverage of those African countries which used to be British colonies. What goes on there currently is of little interest to most folks outside the region, but one legacy of their imperialist past is that the British do have people knowledgeable about these countries and their peoples.
In a way it is parallel to B.B.C. coverage of those African countries which used to be British colonies. What goes on there currently is of little interest to most folks outside the region, but one legacy of their imperialist past is that the British do have people knowledgeable about these countries and their peoples.
3
The People's Republic of China takes a lot of flak for its supposed lack of respect for human rights. That said, do we in the West hear of many recent MASSIVE repression against religious groups? Beijing has adopted a Realpolitik stance against overly militant forms of Islam in its western regions, whilst controlling Christian organisations which pose problems of corruption and influence in certain locales. Despite what the self-righteous West may feel is excessive, we do not witness pogroms on a scale approaching recent tragic events in the Middle East or in Myanmar today in China. The Chinese are correct in making sure that religious groups remain silent and discreet in China to discourage the emergence of religiously influenced violence. Northern Ireland and ex-Yugoslavia are two recent examples of the negative manifestationso of religious realities in Europe which no intellectually honest observer can deny.
6
LOL, yes, do set your standards very low when it comes to CCP's human rights record: " many recent MASSIVE repression against religious groups?" Indeed, No, not too many and no not too recent, and no not too massive. But putting that aside lets remember that the CCP led by Mao remains the largest mass murderer in human history. Seeing the nightmare in Burma through the lens of China's horrifying human rights abuses being not that bad, not that massive, not that recent... a very low bar is set. While you are at it lets just forget the ongoing religious oppression in Tibet. Oh. Forgot. Its not massive today.
1
What's been going on in Arakan for decades now is the "ethnic cleansing" and a genocide against over 1.3 million civilians, including children & infants and is absolutely horrific. These murders are barbaric & brutal to say the least and have been based on instilling fear into the hearts of Rohingya civilians as well in order to hasten their expulsion. It's shameful that they haven't received appropriate media coverage given that they're the most brutalized people on earth.
5
Muslims have been the biggest ethnic cleansers in history.
What do you think happened to the people who lived on the land before the Rohingya came?
What do you think happened to the people who lived on the land before the Rohingya came?
14
Actually you're thinking of Christians...
3
You mean like the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia? I wonder who was responsible for that of the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis?
Myanmar disgusts me. Aung San Suu Kyi disgusts ms. The hateful supposed "Buddhists" of Burma disgust me. Myanmar has no legitimacy. Call it Burma again and do not honor them with their chosen name.
5
The first known use of the name 'Mranma' for the country is found on a 3 feet (91 cm) high stone inscription dated 597 ME (Traditional Burmese calendar) or 1235 CE.
The stone is from the reign of Kyaswa, (1234-1250) in Bagan. It is written in early Burmese script.
The stone is from the reign of Kyaswa, (1234-1250) in Bagan. It is written in early Burmese script.
1
Are the KKK "christian" anymore than these people are Buddhist? I'd be careful of names and labels.
1
I urge all Muslims, and Muslim countries to absorb fleeing Muslims. And urge the petro-states that have flooded the world with mosques, firebrand clerics, and wahabi ideology, to help their fellows. Or is the unity of Islam just for rich Arabs?
Kalidan
Kalidan
17
You know it and I know it, religious solidarity is a massive fiction. This hypocrisy is not the exclusive hallmark of Islam, it taints all of the other major religions which purport to care about their downtrodden brethren. Did the Catholics really care about the decades of political violence in Colombia? Or the Ubuesque regime in neighbouring Venezuela driving its citizens into economic exile? The silence is deafening.
2
It should start with Saudi Arabia, Dubai and other rich countries.
4
In case you didn't know, Bangladesh is a Muslim country and taking these refugees.
4
Most ignorant and hateful commenters are completely obfuscated of the suffering that Rohingya Muslims.
Myanmar has been going through ethnic cleansing of Rohingyas for decades and you have your bias against muslims. Can't you look at these people as humans?
Myanmar has been going through ethnic cleansing of Rohingyas for decades and you have your bias against muslims. Can't you look at these people as humans?
9
But there's been very little, at least in the UK, about the militant Islamic groups in Burma and what they have been doing. The West seems to have fallen out of Burma and its leader. Of course two wrongs don't make a right.
Islamic extremism from Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia is a growing problem. The Burmese leadership might have crudely calculated that this offers them the opportunity to get rid of the problem. Assimilation isn't possible because Islam forbids marriage into Buddhist families.
Every country of course professes to be virtuous and not to oppress but all do.
Islamic extremism from Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia is a growing problem. The Burmese leadership might have crudely calculated that this offers them the opportunity to get rid of the problem. Assimilation isn't possible because Islam forbids marriage into Buddhist families.
Every country of course professes to be virtuous and not to oppress but all do.
This mess is probably another bit of collateral damage generated by the vestiges of British rule in India. Burma was administered by India during the period of the Raj. I suppose it would take a historian to determine the obscure local powerplays which occurred leading to the influx of the Rohingyas' ancestors in British administrated Burma.
1
Just like Obama didn't deserve the Nobel Peace prize, aung San Sun Kui clearly didn't either. Myanmar was safer for the Rohingya during the military dictatorship than under her party s rule. The current brutal genocide in Myanmar shows that democracy rule can create more harm than good.
4
Which country doesn't oppress another and which is fully democratic?
1
aung san suu kyi denies the problem exists. return the nobel prize on account of your complicity
9
The world is watching again a genocide taking place, and this time it is the people of Burma are being killed because they are Muslims and the so called peaceniks the followers of Buddhism are massacring them solely based on Religion.
These atrocities/genocide have taken place before and quite a few Europeans uttered the words 'Never Again" I wonder if different religions have different value for Human lives depending on what they believe.
It is a shame that the West is supporting Aung San Suu Kyi while her government is massacring the Muslims. The Armed forces as well as other militias are killing these unarmed people of Burma.
The UN is silent, Trump Administration is totally silent as for Mr. Trump and his colleagues it is an acceptable outcome in Burma to get rid of all Muslims in Burma. These Muslims have done nothing to deserve this genocidal behaviour of the Burmese Army. When these oppressed people would start resisting the Burmese, suddenly the whole West would start blaming the ones who would come to their aid to assist them to resist the Killers. West must impose a solution now or forever hold its piece as the Oppressor is bound to lose.
When people have nothing more to lose they rise up and then it would be impossible to stop the insurgency in Burma.
These atrocities/genocide have taken place before and quite a few Europeans uttered the words 'Never Again" I wonder if different religions have different value for Human lives depending on what they believe.
It is a shame that the West is supporting Aung San Suu Kyi while her government is massacring the Muslims. The Armed forces as well as other militias are killing these unarmed people of Burma.
The UN is silent, Trump Administration is totally silent as for Mr. Trump and his colleagues it is an acceptable outcome in Burma to get rid of all Muslims in Burma. These Muslims have done nothing to deserve this genocidal behaviour of the Burmese Army. When these oppressed people would start resisting the Burmese, suddenly the whole West would start blaming the ones who would come to their aid to assist them to resist the Killers. West must impose a solution now or forever hold its piece as the Oppressor is bound to lose.
When people have nothing more to lose they rise up and then it would be impossible to stop the insurgency in Burma.
4
Ugh. This is awful and it's hard to forget Hillary Clinton's photo ops and grandstanding after her efforts in Myanmar and with Aun Sung Soo Kyi. Her tenure as Secretary of State was was not very noteworthy (not a disaster, mind you, it's a tough world out there and you can't begin to put Clinton in the same boat with ineffective, clueless Tillerson). I felt strongly at the time that she took her work with Burma and relationship with Soo Kyi and used it as a publicity stunt. Obviously it was too premature and IMHO an irresponsible use of power for self promotion.
Those actions were not harmless, as they raised global respect for Myanmar's government and a sympathetic political dissident in Soo Kyi, while crowding out and glossing over the concerns for the mistreatment of the Rohyinga minority. In that context, worsening humanitarian crisis and cruelty to the barely addressed ethnic minority grew unchecked and was inconvenient for a US narrative of successful statesmanship. Rigid partisanship and blindness to flaws and errors won't serve us as a nation, so while this pales in comparison to the sheer recklessness and insanity of the posturing of the Trump administration (I can't even dignify it by calling it "policy"), this critique of the Obama administration's state department under Hillary Clinton is timely and worth noting.
Those actions were not harmless, as they raised global respect for Myanmar's government and a sympathetic political dissident in Soo Kyi, while crowding out and glossing over the concerns for the mistreatment of the Rohyinga minority. In that context, worsening humanitarian crisis and cruelty to the barely addressed ethnic minority grew unchecked and was inconvenient for a US narrative of successful statesmanship. Rigid partisanship and blindness to flaws and errors won't serve us as a nation, so while this pales in comparison to the sheer recklessness and insanity of the posturing of the Trump administration (I can't even dignify it by calling it "policy"), this critique of the Obama administration's state department under Hillary Clinton is timely and worth noting.
1
Let's see how this improves living conditions in Bangladesh. Population 146 million on a flood-prone Wisconsin-size delta. A permanent argument for a one-child per family government policy which unfortunately the religious fanaticism of this country could never stomach. So it looks as though the Rohingyas' misery will simply change forms once they settle in this swampy wasteland of intolerance and backward thinking.
7
The Nobel Peace Prize received by Aung San Suu Kyi is a cruel joke, and should be rescinded.
4
Depends if you think she has ultimate control over all military decisions, and what is going on and the strategic vision etc. I doubt it very much.
I guess it is a long standing situation with tensions brewing for generations.
Interesting how much attention (in the Western press) China would receive for treatment of the Uyguhur Muslim population in the Xinjang region. I suspect very little criticism because of trade and the power of China.
I guess it is a long standing situation with tensions brewing for generations.
Interesting how much attention (in the Western press) China would receive for treatment of the Uyguhur Muslim population in the Xinjang region. I suspect very little criticism because of trade and the power of China.
This is what I call lazy journalism. Writing with "an angle" for the story rather than facts.
Anywhere in the world, if a police post or military post is attacked in the name of the religion, it will be retaliated by brute force. It happens in US, it happened in Burma, it can and will help anywhere in the world. These background facts are missing from the story.
Aung Snn Suu Kyii has limited power. She doesn't control the military. Blaming her is to jump to conclusions.
Sauid Arabia, like elsewhere in the world funded the Islamic extremists in Burma. But, doesn't show up with any money for refugees. Neither do any other Muslim country.
It is sad that innocents always get caught in the middle and suffer. But, why should Buddhists not defend when their homes, places of learning and worship are attacked? There is history here - Hordes of muslims massacred buddhist monks in their monasteries while in prayer.
Bangladesh, a muslim country oppresses Rohingiyas. Bangladeshi muslims consider Rohingiyas as sub-standard muslims and sent them all to a small island in the Indian Ocean.
Every life is precious, every suffering heart breaking. But, these tinted stories do not help.
Anywhere in the world, if a police post or military post is attacked in the name of the religion, it will be retaliated by brute force. It happens in US, it happened in Burma, it can and will help anywhere in the world. These background facts are missing from the story.
Aung Snn Suu Kyii has limited power. She doesn't control the military. Blaming her is to jump to conclusions.
Sauid Arabia, like elsewhere in the world funded the Islamic extremists in Burma. But, doesn't show up with any money for refugees. Neither do any other Muslim country.
It is sad that innocents always get caught in the middle and suffer. But, why should Buddhists not defend when their homes, places of learning and worship are attacked? There is history here - Hordes of muslims massacred buddhist monks in their monasteries while in prayer.
Bangladesh, a muslim country oppresses Rohingiyas. Bangladeshi muslims consider Rohingiyas as sub-standard muslims and sent them all to a small island in the Indian Ocean.
Every life is precious, every suffering heart breaking. But, these tinted stories do not help.
13
Myanmar does not allowed people married to foreigners to become the president.
That is why Aung San Suu Kyi is not allowed the title, even though she is daughter of the man is considered the Father of the Nation of modern-day Myanmar. (He was the founder of the Communist Party of Burma, negotiated independence from the British, but was assassinated 6 months before independence took effect.)
Aung San Suu Kyi had to invent another title--state counselor--to become ruler of the nation.
That is why Aung San Suu Kyi is not allowed the title, even though she is daughter of the man is considered the Father of the Nation of modern-day Myanmar. (He was the founder of the Communist Party of Burma, negotiated independence from the British, but was assassinated 6 months before independence took effect.)
Aung San Suu Kyi had to invent another title--state counselor--to become ruler of the nation.
The news everywhere, except possibly in the big cities, seems to tell that humans want the mosaic, not the melting pot, with you stay on your side of the line. Reptilian cave clan mind dominates.
3
When are we going to call this genocide? Ethnic cleansing? Crime against humanity? War crime and what have you?
Because it is in Myanmar now ruled by a Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi, who is our democracy activist darling, the horrendous treatment and persecution of the Rohingya Muslims, most of them women and children, for several decades now at the hands of Buddhist fundamentalists gets barely a mention in news reports. This should have been a cover story years ago.
Had this atrocity was done by Milosevic or Assad or some other third world dictator, the whole world had declared it a genocide already, the International Criminal Court had issued arrest warrants, the UN Security Council has imposed sanctions, froze Myanmar’s assets even before the UN sends a fact-finding mission.
George Clooney had made a documentary or two about it, wrote an editorial in the NYTimes, and he is now campaigning in World Capitals for the freedom and secession of Rohingyas.
How are Rohingya moslims are different from Syrian moslims or Bosnian moslims?
The level and magnitude of this hypocrisy is just appalling!
Shame on Aung San Suu Kyi. She is a disgrace, and history will not be kind to her.
Because it is in Myanmar now ruled by a Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi, who is our democracy activist darling, the horrendous treatment and persecution of the Rohingya Muslims, most of them women and children, for several decades now at the hands of Buddhist fundamentalists gets barely a mention in news reports. This should have been a cover story years ago.
Had this atrocity was done by Milosevic or Assad or some other third world dictator, the whole world had declared it a genocide already, the International Criminal Court had issued arrest warrants, the UN Security Council has imposed sanctions, froze Myanmar’s assets even before the UN sends a fact-finding mission.
George Clooney had made a documentary or two about it, wrote an editorial in the NYTimes, and he is now campaigning in World Capitals for the freedom and secession of Rohingyas.
How are Rohingya moslims are different from Syrian moslims or Bosnian moslims?
The level and magnitude of this hypocrisy is just appalling!
Shame on Aung San Suu Kyi. She is a disgrace, and history will not be kind to her.
3
You all are mistaken. Even though I am one of her strongest critics, I dare say Aung San Suu Kyi is doing her utmost to solve the problem of generations.
First, if these so-called Rohingyas are suffering, can you find an adult or a child who is malnourished like in other disaster areas? There are about 1.1 million illegal Bengali/Rohingya immigrants in Arakan but only a few thousands flee to Bangladesh due to dubious reasons. More than a million others from the same ethnic group are happily living in Arakan without any problem. How come? They are also illegal immigrants. What I think is they are poor and live in remote villages where the government forces can't reach. The Rohingya rebels burnt their houses and drove them to Bangladesh to show the world that they had to flee due to Burmese government troops' atrocities.
Meanwhile, the other Rohingyas caught 7 rebels and handed over to police. At the same time, Aung San Suu Kyi is busy trying to find a solution to the generation long civil strife with the help of former UN Secretary General Mr. Kofi Annan. The biggest problem is that some traitorous elements among Rohingyas want to declare Arakan as their own territory. They tried it in 1947 through Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah but to no avail and again in 1950's through rebellion. Actually most of them are illegal immigrants except a few hundred farmers brought by the British.
What will people say if illegal Latino immigrants wanted to declare Taxas as their own?
First, if these so-called Rohingyas are suffering, can you find an adult or a child who is malnourished like in other disaster areas? There are about 1.1 million illegal Bengali/Rohingya immigrants in Arakan but only a few thousands flee to Bangladesh due to dubious reasons. More than a million others from the same ethnic group are happily living in Arakan without any problem. How come? They are also illegal immigrants. What I think is they are poor and live in remote villages where the government forces can't reach. The Rohingya rebels burnt their houses and drove them to Bangladesh to show the world that they had to flee due to Burmese government troops' atrocities.
Meanwhile, the other Rohingyas caught 7 rebels and handed over to police. At the same time, Aung San Suu Kyi is busy trying to find a solution to the generation long civil strife with the help of former UN Secretary General Mr. Kofi Annan. The biggest problem is that some traitorous elements among Rohingyas want to declare Arakan as their own territory. They tried it in 1947 through Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah but to no avail and again in 1950's through rebellion. Actually most of them are illegal immigrants except a few hundred farmers brought by the British.
What will people say if illegal Latino immigrants wanted to declare Taxas as their own?
1
First, if these so-called Rohingyas are suffering, can you find an adult or a child who is malnourished like in other disaster areas? There are at least 1.1 million illegal Bengali/Rohingya immigrants in Arakn but only a few thousands flee to Bangladesh due to dubious reasons. More than a million from the same ethnic group stay put happily in Arakan, even caught 7 rebels recently and handed over to the police. How come? What I think is escapees are poor and live in remote villages where government forces can't reach. The rebels burnt down their houses and drove them to fake the world that they flee due to Burmese atrocities.
Meanwhile, Aung San Suu Kyi is busy trying to find a solution to the generation long civil strife between Arkanese and immigrants with Mr. Kofi Annan's help. The biggest problem is that some traitorous Rohingyas declare Arakan their own territory. They tried it in 1947 through Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah but to no avail and again in 1950's through rebellion. Actually most of them are illegal immigrants except a few hundred farmers brought by the British.
What will people say if illegal Latino immigrants wanted to declare Taxas as their own? While a few thousands of people badmouthing about Burma, more than three million Sunnis and Shiites are happily doing their own routines and nearly a million Bengali Muslims are trying to catch ruffians of ARSA which is headed by a Pakistani, trained by Taliban and resided in Saudi Arabia.
Meanwhile, Aung San Suu Kyi is busy trying to find a solution to the generation long civil strife between Arkanese and immigrants with Mr. Kofi Annan's help. The biggest problem is that some traitorous Rohingyas declare Arakan their own territory. They tried it in 1947 through Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah but to no avail and again in 1950's through rebellion. Actually most of them are illegal immigrants except a few hundred farmers brought by the British.
What will people say if illegal Latino immigrants wanted to declare Taxas as their own? While a few thousands of people badmouthing about Burma, more than three million Sunnis and Shiites are happily doing their own routines and nearly a million Bengali Muslims are trying to catch ruffians of ARSA which is headed by a Pakistani, trained by Taliban and resided in Saudi Arabia.
Where is the Dela lama now? Not a word. Noble laureate for peaceful resistance! Where is Saudi Arabia and the rest of the moslem world? Where is humanity? Where are the churches? Buddhist or Not Buddhist they have created a killing field and the generals are the worst of humanity in my opinion
4
If you have to flee to Bangladesh for a better life than the one you had, you are in deep trouble.
7
Yes -- a country where gays are ostentatiously hacked to pieces by outraged righteous Muslims and humane labour laws are a cruel joke.
Cyprus. Malaysia. Nigeria, Phillipines.
Civil war. Terrorism. A religious minority which will accept nothing less than complete control.
I do not support what Myanmar is doing. But, based on the evidence, what else can they do? Do people who do not belong to one certain group have a right to protect their culture?
We see a new kind of imperialism and colonialism today. It is not being driven by white men so it is ignored. A certain religion is intentionally spreading itself across the world- this religion espouses extreme violence against non-believers. This religion indoctrinates its followers into believing they are victims.
They are not. They are the 21st Century imperialists / colonialists. They are sympathetic when they are a tiny minority- when they become a large minority the beheadings start. The explosions start. The murders start.
Civil war. Terrorism. A religious minority which will accept nothing less than complete control.
I do not support what Myanmar is doing. But, based on the evidence, what else can they do? Do people who do not belong to one certain group have a right to protect their culture?
We see a new kind of imperialism and colonialism today. It is not being driven by white men so it is ignored. A certain religion is intentionally spreading itself across the world- this religion espouses extreme violence against non-believers. This religion indoctrinates its followers into believing they are victims.
They are not. They are the 21st Century imperialists / colonialists. They are sympathetic when they are a tiny minority- when they become a large minority the beheadings start. The explosions start. The murders start.
11
Let Malaysia, Indonesia, Qatar and Saudi Arabia take their brothers in!
9
We already did. This is not the first time of fleeing. The problem is not to absorb refugees but how to stop the brutal carnage.
Buddhists? Really? There goes another "peaceful" religion.
3
Buddhists, sworn to peace and love above all else. I've wondered for some time - what with worldwide genocide, the rise of white supremacy, the election of the least likely buffoon to lead the greatest country on earth, and now people with such a loving philosophy murdering with sub machine guns from helicopters - if we are in the midst of some sort of apocalyptic doom. I can't stand it.
2
What terrible drama is playing out in Myanmar and Bangladesh--two nations where humanity has suffered so much hardship.
The life of Aung San Suu Kyi has been astounding. With her Oxford graduate school education, then her career working for a few years for the United Nations, we moved to her eventual election to lead her nation. And the military refused to hand over power, resulting in an international outcry. She had, however, already been detained under house arrest before the
In all, she was under house arrest for almost 15, and was one of the world's most prominent political prisoners.
In the next three or four years, I long to visit Myanmar, especially Bagan.
But I am very disappointed in what is happening in that nation. She obviously is trying to accommodate the military power to the detriment of many citizens and minorities.
I expected more of the government led by Aung San Sue Kyi.
The life of Aung San Suu Kyi has been astounding. With her Oxford graduate school education, then her career working for a few years for the United Nations, we moved to her eventual election to lead her nation. And the military refused to hand over power, resulting in an international outcry. She had, however, already been detained under house arrest before the
In all, she was under house arrest for almost 15, and was one of the world's most prominent political prisoners.
In the next three or four years, I long to visit Myanmar, especially Bagan.
But I am very disappointed in what is happening in that nation. She obviously is trying to accommodate the military power to the detriment of many citizens and minorities.
I expected more of the government led by Aung San Sue Kyi.
2
Way too many emotional outrages and blames going around based on unsubstantiated allegations by overzealous activists and journalists who report from comfy luxury hotels without being on the grounds or even in the country. Aung San Suu Kyi and her NLD party, despite their electoral majority, have limited powers in reality and must navigate precariously with other factions to secure democracy for ALL her countrymen, including other minority groups such as the Karen, Kachin, Shan, Mon, Chin, etc. persecuted by the military for DECADES. Where were the outrages by the UN, NGOs and others ethnocentric hypocrites then? By law, the military retains a third of parliamentary seats with at least another third or more from other parties traditionally supportive of the Myanmar military, whose influential tentacles reach beyond the realm of security into all levels of the country religiously diverse, multiethnic fabric including social, political and economic. If Aung San and her supporters rock the boat too much, they risk losing all the gains they have endured and bled for so long. Her priority is the welfare of the majority of Burmese people and the preservation and continuation of democratization regardless of the costs to her reputation.
4
Perhaps first of all, religion is a strong social organizing force. For all the good that religion's moral and ethical strictures bring to communities, however, religious belief, as here, also brings with it the potential for powerful divisiveness. "Buddhist forces"? The phrase is almost a non sequitur. The Buddhist government of a Nobel peace laureate supporting, or at least quietly tolerating, violent ethnic cleansing? It's almost incomprehensible.
1
'Buddist forces' is an oxymoron.
1
So much for the myth of the peaceful Buddhist!
1
Where is Aung San Suu Kyi in all this?
1
Walking a tightrope over swollen, raging waters.
All but ignoring it, trying elsewhere to keep the nation from going into full blown police state. The military retains much power that she cannot budge.
Muslim majority countries in the region, and not only Bangladesh, should step up and offer refuge to the civilians.
If as one commentator has stated is true, that Saudi Arabia has been funding the Rohingya insurgents (and that sounds more than plausible), then Saudi Arabia should be the first country to offer refuge. But if Syria is any guide, where Saudi and all of the rich gulf states hosted exactly 0 Syrian refugees, this certainly will not happen here with the Rohingya.
I guess they will lobby Merkel to open the floodgates also to the Rohingya, as she did for 1.5M Syrians who were already safe in Turkey.
If as one commentator has stated is true, that Saudi Arabia has been funding the Rohingya insurgents (and that sounds more than plausible), then Saudi Arabia should be the first country to offer refuge. But if Syria is any guide, where Saudi and all of the rich gulf states hosted exactly 0 Syrian refugees, this certainly will not happen here with the Rohingya.
I guess they will lobby Merkel to open the floodgates also to the Rohingya, as she did for 1.5M Syrians who were already safe in Turkey.
19
There has always been madness and irrationality in the world, but there seems to be a sea change occurring as societies, and leaders of these societies, have demonized all Muslims as if those followers of the religion who actually are conducting themselves as evil are acting as a single unit for all Muslims.
I am also stunned to read that Buddhists, who I thought of as peaceful believers, are acting violently against another religion. The war is on against all Muslims, most of whom are paying a severe price for the acts of a small segment of their religion.
I do not have an answer to what is happening as our world spins out of control.
I am also stunned to read that Buddhists, who I thought of as peaceful believers, are acting violently against another religion. The war is on against all Muslims, most of whom are paying a severe price for the acts of a small segment of their religion.
I do not have an answer to what is happening as our world spins out of control.
7
The muslims did the same to non Muslims under Islamic rule. What happened to genocide of Iranian Zoroastrian, Pakistani Hindus, Armenians, Arab Christians etc.
8
Religions as an expression of the human spirit to aspire for something good, all have some universal values - truth, goodness, compassion, the golden rule of different hues (do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, etc), and often a belief in a higher spirit, a being or a plane of existence. Hindus, Buddhists, Judaism, Islam, Christianity and a myriad others have these universal values. Follow any of these, and you'll find balance, peace and contentment. But, all religions have also developed a culture around them, wrapped in ego, authority, self-centered notions of superiority, insecurities, material greed, and political power.. Watch out for these, as they have caused endless misery to humankind. Buddhist values of Maitri(Loving friendship towards all), Karuna(universal compassion), Kalyana(universal Welfare) are great values if you practise them as an individual. But, culture of a religion, any religion, is for the masses and easily corrupted by human frailities; stay away from that.
3
The people on this thread trying to justify genocide by citing weak and dubious links to terrorism or fears of Muslims ought to be ashamed of themselves, and those reading their comments should shudder at the implications. Fact is that civilians, including women and children, are being systematically wiped out. Don't run around trying to rationalize or justify this. If we were to hold the same standard for any other religious or ethnic group - that somehow they could have zero bad apples or zero history of any violence or resistance or protest - in order for them to be considered victims of ethnic cleansing, then in that case I don't think you can assign the term to genocide to any of history's major human atrocities. Killing, and systematic killing in particular, are evil and should be called out in no uncertain terms, even if you have a deep bias against Muslims as so many commenters on this thread appear to have.
14
Thank you for exposing the situation in such an enlightening and informative article. My goodness ! "Yes, 'n' many deaths will it take till he knows That too many people have died ?" - Bob Dylan
2
It's very sad to read this report. In particular Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi is one of the leaders of the government. Where is her compassion?
Muslims and Buddhists are human beings. Both religions are supposed to treat people nicely like brothers and sisters. No hatred over each other.
People had put a lot of efforts trying to free Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi over the last quarter century. But she seems doing nothing to reduce the pain of those helpless people. What a shame!
Muslims and Buddhists are human beings. Both religions are supposed to treat people nicely like brothers and sisters. No hatred over each other.
People had put a lot of efforts trying to free Ms. Aung San Suu Kyi over the last quarter century. But she seems doing nothing to reduce the pain of those helpless people. What a shame!
5
Thanks @Hannah Beech for this moving first-hand description of this heart-breaking, man-made tragedy.
2
This is just another example of how religion is used as a justification for mass murder. Religion is the worst thing that has ever been inflicted on mankind. To kill another human being based on their belief or lack thereof with regard to a mythological entity is mind-boggling. There is absolutely no proof that a "supreme being" exists, yet because of "faith" in their particular brand of fable unspeakable acts are committed.
5
Yet, Baldinac, in opposition to the generalization of a whole group of people based on the acts of some, you do the same with religion. I happen to be an atheist myself, but I recognize that over time religion may have saved far more lives than it took. It is a hard judgment to make because acts of non-violence and wars that never happened can't be assessed while violence and murder are highlighted and ever in our sight and minds. Also, when people say that the tens of millions murdered by Communists can be generalized to mean that atheists have no morals or are prone to murder - how do you like that? I'd rather that murderers and the like be opposed because without the need to general beyond where it fits the bill. We can safely generalize that people with violent ideologies, no matter of what group, will be violent, but not beyond that.
Is this actually about a difference in religious beliefs? Buddhists are not really about inflicting suffering on others or mass murder under any pretext according to my understanding; this conflict is about power, fear and hatred of the "other" and probably also historic disputes that may even have been made more fraught by colonial history (that's a guess, given a history of British presence and the havoc in wreaked in the post colonial geo-political arena). Like most conflicts (many of which use the mantle of religion as a justification for atrocities that are a perversion or completely unsanctioned by the teachings of said philosophy), a few people want power for themselves for a multitude of reasons - more resources, cultural dominance, wealth, influence, egomania, etc. and use religion or other tools to sway and indoctrinate followers who often struggle with poverty, ignorance, and even a history of suffering from previous social injustice. The cycle of conflict then continues and one of the few ways to partly break out of it include cultural exchange/dialogue to nurture empathy and most importantly, education to give people an opportunity to analyze for themselves how they are being manipulated. It goes without saying that hunger and deprivation for many while increasing greed and blindness to the plight of others and the ramifications of this disregard feeds the beast.
Some sects of Buddhists have engaged in war at times in history.
Which of the world's religions practice peace, harmony, and all that good stuff? It's a trick question.
2
Humanity is lost because of Religion including the peace loving Buddhist
1
The treatment of the Rohingya women and children is certainly tragic. It makes those of us who live on the coast of Texas realize how lucky we are.
How did American colonialists treated native Americans.
2
Wow, so anxious to put "white people" on par with these mass murderers you'll go back 200 years.
I read this article just after reading "Goodbye Yosemite, Hello What?", also on the front page of NYT online today. This is a living example of what is described to have happened over 150 years ago to the Native Americans of California, where state-sponsored militias of our country engaged in an extermination process terribly similar to what is currently happening to the Rohingya in Myanmar. How appalling that we as a species have advanced almost nowhere with respect to controlling our most base behavior, even as we have created the advanced technology to literally see in real time what is going on half a world away.
4
Reminds me of Biafra...and the months i spent in a hungry enclave watching my once-bubbly buddies become bloated bellies and then, shortly after, watched the corpse carrier cart their carcasses off to the Big Forest.
1
"I reached out my hand to pull her up": I have waited 51 years to hear this sentence in a journalist account. If journalists help, it goes unmentioned. Thank you, Ms. Beech. You are our eyes and ears there. Thank you, so much, for being our hands this time as well.
10
I am currently in Myanmar, training English teachers, and was last week in Sittwe and Mrauk U, Rakhine state. We were watched at the airport, registration with the local immigration service after a domestic flight. We did not see any fighting, and the high school teachers we were training were concerned for us. Information available to them is a very mixed bag, with a lot of unconfirmed rumors. It is hard to sort out the truth here. The military presence there (and where we are now, in Shan state) was (and is) overwhelming. The way the Constitution is set up gives the military practical veto power on any new law. And yet, the government does not use its popular mandate from the last elections to force the issue. Fear abounds here.
4
My hat is off to you. I am in a remote Alaskan village and the fear here is that if North Korea does decide to launch at Alaska they may target someplace in the tundra rather than the bigger cities. Guess what cultural group lives in the tundra. I can not imagine teaching there where the fear has to be thick enough to cut.
1
Let's face the truth. Aung San Suu Kyi has not yet consolidated real political power in Myanmar. She has a symbolic stake in the government. According to the most recent draft of the constitution, the military has a guaranteed third of positions across government bodies. She has no control over the military. Myanmar is a country with countless factions--a decentralized state.
Furthermore, the burning public opinion of eliminating the Rohingya people has been simmering from the chants of cult-like Buddhist monks. It is dangerous to take on prominent monks in a predominantly Buddhist nation. The military take down of the Rohingya is fed by the public, and vice versa.
To really address the predicament of the Rohingya people, it is the Burmese military who must be directly consulted. There are no incentives for them to back down. Until they are given an incentive, there is no end to the plight of the Rohingya people.
Furthermore, the burning public opinion of eliminating the Rohingya people has been simmering from the chants of cult-like Buddhist monks. It is dangerous to take on prominent monks in a predominantly Buddhist nation. The military take down of the Rohingya is fed by the public, and vice versa.
To really address the predicament of the Rohingya people, it is the Burmese military who must be directly consulted. There are no incentives for them to back down. Until they are given an incentive, there is no end to the plight of the Rohingya people.
3
The most objective, balanced assessment I've read so far having worked and lived in Myanmar as an American expat for several years. Many commenters herein express impulsive emotions on the issue based on ethnocentric media bias and overzealous activists with agendas nearly all of whom are not on the ground to truly document and report upon what are alleged hearsay.
1
This story and the accompanying photos really touched me. Politics and religion aside, the people of these regions (Myanmar, Nepal, Bangladesh and others) are amongst the poorest of the world but suffer the most from the consequences of wars and natural disasters.
Unlike, say, many of the Syrian refugees who have arrived in Europe, these people don't have the financial means to travel to a safe country, nor the education or skills to help them start afresh. They are fleeing to an uncertain future in a country whose resources are already stretched by horrific flooding.
Thank you, NYT, for giving this story prominence amongst the Harvey coverage and during the weekend of the Islamic festival of Eid. While others of their faith celebrate and feast, these people are fleeing for their lives and going hungry.
I know it's a bit of a cliche, but after reading this story I feel so grateful for what I have and my own first world problems seem ridiculous in comparison.
Unlike, say, many of the Syrian refugees who have arrived in Europe, these people don't have the financial means to travel to a safe country, nor the education or skills to help them start afresh. They are fleeing to an uncertain future in a country whose resources are already stretched by horrific flooding.
Thank you, NYT, for giving this story prominence amongst the Harvey coverage and during the weekend of the Islamic festival of Eid. While others of their faith celebrate and feast, these people are fleeing for their lives and going hungry.
I know it's a bit of a cliche, but after reading this story I feel so grateful for what I have and my own first world problems seem ridiculous in comparison.
4
The current suffering by the Rohingya in Myanmar is horrific, and action needs to be taken to stop it. However, the action needs to be directed towards the Burmese military and not conflated with Aug San Suu Kyi or Burmese Buddhists in general.
There has not been much sympathy for the Rohingya among the Burmese, because many feel Muslim immigrants in Myanmar have long been unpleasant neighbours, refusing to integrate with Burmese culture. The idea, however, that the Rakhine settlers are being persecuted by a movement of Buddhist fundamentalists is not accurate.
The Burmese military is not particularly Buddhist. It has been closely aligned with China and has used similar tactics to repress dissent. Aung San Suu Kyi still has little real control over the military, so it doesn’t make sense to blame her. It’s true that she could be more vocal about harmony and reducing harm. However, it is still dangerous to be too critical of the army, and if she orders the army to stand down and they refuse, then it will be clear how limited her authority is. For the military, this may also be an opportunity to embarrass Aung San Suu Kyi, their long-time nemesis.
There has not been much sympathy for the Rohingya among the Burmese, because many feel Muslim immigrants in Myanmar have long been unpleasant neighbours, refusing to integrate with Burmese culture. The idea, however, that the Rakhine settlers are being persecuted by a movement of Buddhist fundamentalists is not accurate.
The Burmese military is not particularly Buddhist. It has been closely aligned with China and has used similar tactics to repress dissent. Aung San Suu Kyi still has little real control over the military, so it doesn’t make sense to blame her. It’s true that she could be more vocal about harmony and reducing harm. However, it is still dangerous to be too critical of the army, and if she orders the army to stand down and they refuse, then it will be clear how limited her authority is. For the military, this may also be an opportunity to embarrass Aung San Suu Kyi, their long-time nemesis.
29
Contrary to the above, which follows Burmese Buddhists in mischaracterizing the Rohingya, with a many generations long history in the area, as immigrants, and states that "The idea, however, that the Rakhine settlers are being persecuted by a movement of Buddhist fundamentalists is not accurate", see the following recent article from a well-respected source on the monk who leads the movement supporting their persecution:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/may/12/only-takes-on...
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/may/12/only-takes-on...
1
If Aung San Suu Kyi cannot stop this genocide because of her lack of power, the least she should do is resign immediately.
You are again trying to make the same mistake as was done by others in making any conflict as us vs them. These are Burmese Muslims we are talking about. Providing reasons why the Buddhist fundamentalist are carrying out this genocidal action and justifying these actions just tells me that Buddhist are no more peaceful than the ISIS bunch. It is time the Monasteries throughout control these monks and stop this Genocide.
Yes Aung suu maybe over her head in controlling the Army, but it is time she calls them out on international media and force their hand.
Yes Aung suu maybe over her head in controlling the Army, but it is time she calls them out on international media and force their hand.
2
At this point, Ms Aung San Suu Kyi may as well give back the Nobel Peace Prize or go back to England,
46
Nobel Prize is invaluable for Myanmar Citizens. We all know about the magic of Nobel Prize. What did The Soviet Union happen coz of Noble Prize? How did The US handle on 9/11 case?
And Obama? Sadly, he cannot "go back" to any other country.
The memory of historic muslim atrocities against the Buddhists of South and Southeast Asia still resonate in the region.There is little sympathy or tolerance for muslims and their martial ideology as expressed within a strong and vibrant Buddhist nation.
60
This is pure nonsense. First, Buddhists, like the genuine Christians and genuine Muslims, are about kindness and compassion. It is a shame to perpetrate lies about any genuine religion having a "martial ideology."
Based on this "little sympathy" logic, Texas should have either 1) gone back to Mexico or 2) America returned to the Native Americans. And how about the blacks?
Even if there were military campaigns in the name of religion in the past, the evolving civilization means a greater union of humanity. America's Wild West might have been necessarily without law and order. Do you still take justice in your own hands?
Saying the ordinary Rohingya people are militants is like saying the tens of thousands of Syrians who got caught between many military factions, including ISIL, the Syrian government and the Russians are all ISIL. This is bad logic. It is mind boggling to see anyone liking this kind of logic
Based on this "little sympathy" logic, Texas should have either 1) gone back to Mexico or 2) America returned to the Native Americans. And how about the blacks?
Even if there were military campaigns in the name of religion in the past, the evolving civilization means a greater union of humanity. America's Wild West might have been necessarily without law and order. Do you still take justice in your own hands?
Saying the ordinary Rohingya people are militants is like saying the tens of thousands of Syrians who got caught between many military factions, including ISIL, the Syrian government and the Russians are all ISIL. This is bad logic. It is mind boggling to see anyone liking this kind of logic
48
In 1920, 1938 and 1944 ethnic Russians invaded my grandparents community, which had been Austrian since 1773, and committed horrific atrocities. While my family remembers those events I am not out harming Russian women and children in retribution. To make excuses for today's Myanmar Buddhists harming women and children of any religion "because of historic atrocities" is obfuscation plain and simple. The conduct of the Myanmar Buddhists is morally wrong, plain and simple.
5
Those people climbing that steep hill look poor and defenseless. You can't be serious to transfer the 'biblical sins' on them from, not even their forefathers, but people who share their religion. If we keep that mindset going then we here in America can be in serious trouble if we go back to the days of slavery and all the evil and wealth associated with it. Let's look toward the future and try to help these unfortunate people instead of persecuting them for sins, imaginary or real, of others.
7
Rohingas are victims of ethnic cleansing. The World has responsibility to protect the victims. It should be noted however Bangladesh may not be a rich country but it has the ability to raise a 10 million men army and take 1 million casualties. If Bangladesh decides to go into that path , it will be a bloody mess. The World has to step up to control the situation before it goes out of control.
25
The "world" has never stepped up. For the most part it falls on western nations with varying degrees of support from other UN countries. Two of the largest nations in the "world", Russia and China, prefer to stir the pot. India as well. Between these three countries there are a few billion people, all of whom are closer to Myanmar than any of the usual saviours. Perhaps maybe they could spare a few people. In the words of the great thinker Homer (Simpson), "can't someone else do it?".
2
The world doesn't have a 'responsibility' to protect anyone and I doubt you will find a country that wants to dip its toe into this mess.
4
Muslims in neighbouring countries in the region in Bangladesh and Pakistan have finely honed skills in religious persecution which they have used very well. Now the shoe is on the other foot. The fact that how Islam spread in South Asia says it all. Some religions provide legitimacy to the evil in us, even to followers of the pacifist faith Buddhism.
In the end it is the weak and dispossessed that pay the price and the viscous cycle continues.
In the end it is the weak and dispossessed that pay the price and the viscous cycle continues.
6
What exactly did Obama see in Aung San Suu Kyi that he would decide to substantially lift sanctions against Myanmar? I generally liked Obama, but that was a significant foreign policy blunder not talked about enough.
32
It's a little examined or reported fact that Aung San Suu Kyi has little to no real power in the government. Her role was reduced in their constitution, and the military-government leaders wrote themselves into power in perpetuity, as long as they stay unified in their interests to hold on to power (read the Wiki page on the document). They have all of the power, they control the army, and they have written themselves permanent parliamentary control. Kyi has no control over them, and they are corrupt to the core.
4
Not sure what lifting sanctions had to do with suu kyi because they were lifted before she came in power. And worse still, Obama lifted them while Myanmar was conducting the Muslim genocide in rakhine state.
Speaks volumes of western leadership's strategy to support governments who kill and suppress their Muslim populations. Most abhorrent act Obama did in his tenure.
Speaks volumes of western leadership's strategy to support governments who kill and suppress their Muslim populations. Most abhorrent act Obama did in his tenure.
1
this is really sad case.
5
What has this world come to? Buddhists, whose religious tenets abhor killing, committing genocide. The human race has become an abomination, a plague on the planet. There is no saving us.
65
In the 2 weeks before the military attack on Rohingya, our NGO was writing frantic letters to UN and US officials, especially to Secretary of State Tillerson, asking for the Burmese troop build up to be stopped. The build up was itself provocative, accompanied by mass arrests and blockades of already hard pressed villages, preventing food from arriving.
It is regrettable that this small group of insurgents hit back against the Burmese military, despite their limited weapons of machetes. The Myanmar government has depicted them as some sort of international jihadist movement (who would certainly have been better armed) & has used them as pretext to derail Kofi Annan's Rakhine Commission report, a road-map for peace & coexistence officially presented only hours before the attack.
But there is a market for anti-Muslim actions, both in Myanmar and also internationally, to judge by frequent anti-Muslim comments. The question now is how to return to the Kofi Annan roadmap and salvage Burma as multi-ethnic nation-- the Burmese military seems intent on domination of all of the other ethnic groups and has impeded progress in the peace talks with them.
The increasing extremism of the Buddhist Burman elite puts limits on pluralism; & democracy itself is being undermined. Last week 220 diverse Burmese civil society groups called for peace, & Rohingya leadership has also consistently called for nonviolence. There is a will for peace on the grassroots level. But how about Suu Kyi?
It is regrettable that this small group of insurgents hit back against the Burmese military, despite their limited weapons of machetes. The Myanmar government has depicted them as some sort of international jihadist movement (who would certainly have been better armed) & has used them as pretext to derail Kofi Annan's Rakhine Commission report, a road-map for peace & coexistence officially presented only hours before the attack.
But there is a market for anti-Muslim actions, both in Myanmar and also internationally, to judge by frequent anti-Muslim comments. The question now is how to return to the Kofi Annan roadmap and salvage Burma as multi-ethnic nation-- the Burmese military seems intent on domination of all of the other ethnic groups and has impeded progress in the peace talks with them.
The increasing extremism of the Buddhist Burman elite puts limits on pluralism; & democracy itself is being undermined. Last week 220 diverse Burmese civil society groups called for peace, & Rohingya leadership has also consistently called for nonviolence. There is a will for peace on the grassroots level. But how about Suu Kyi?
63
Although there are news of ARSA attacking government posts, I seriously doubt the veracity of this claim given that who suffers most with the outcome.
It was most likely a false flag operation to get this genocide to its pinnacle.
It was most likely a false flag operation to get this genocide to its pinnacle.
1
With respect I don't think the militant groups are as small and as uncoordinated as you suggest. Parts of Southern Thailand are no go areas and teachers, Buddhist are killed, also the Philippines and Indonesia of course.
There is no easy solution. What would any country do faced with the same problem.?
There is no easy solution. What would any country do faced with the same problem.?
"Buddhist" people are killing Rohingha muslims? I identify as Buddhist. First as a practitioner of Zen, in these last years identifying more with the Dalai Lama's doctrine of Lovingkindness. Kindness and compassion towards my fellow beings seeming to me to be the most direct practice, the ultimate expression of the Buddha's teaching. I suddenly feel very naive. I knew that Christians, Muslims, Hindus etc. oppress and kill in the name of their religion: but Buddhists too? I would have to call these people Buddhist-identified, not Buddhist. And Muslim terrorists Muslim-identified, not Muslims. In my experience, Christian-identified people for the most part do not actually practice the teachings of Jesus, except for those like the Catholic Workers and, it seems, Pope Francis. It now seems to me that for most of "humanity," the religion they identify with is more like an affiliation with a football team or a political party. It's all about dominance, not spirituality. These Myanmar "Buddhists" are not following the teachings of Buddha.
76
Judith Yates: If you're going to distinguish Buddhist who commit atrocities by calling them "Buddhist-indentified", then it's interesting then that you say you yourself "identify as Buddhist".
Re: "It now seems to me that for most of 'humanity,' the religion they identify with is more like an affiliation with a football team or a political party." No: real religion (in contradistinction to "religion" adopted as an affectation, for example Wicca, Scientology, American "Buddhism", etc.) is cultural , and these are cultural clashes. You need, by the way, to drop your scare quotes surrounding "humanity". Real human beings do indeed commit atrocities.
Re: "It now seems to me that for most of 'humanity,' the religion they identify with is more like an affiliation with a football team or a political party." No: real religion (in contradistinction to "religion" adopted as an affectation, for example Wicca, Scientology, American "Buddhism", etc.) is cultural , and these are cultural clashes. You need, by the way, to drop your scare quotes surrounding "humanity". Real human beings do indeed commit atrocities.
16
Ms. Yates: So you identify as Buddhist? As I identify as Christian, & a multitude of sins are committed in Christ's name, & in the names of the Buddha, & the Prophet, & the Proleteriat... we all might as well concede that outsiders will always label our thugs, dictators & frauds with "our" religion as long as we have neither the will nor the means to meaningfully, forcefully repudiate their actions nor mitigate the consequences of their actions.
The West labels Al Qaeda & ISIS "radical Muslim." The actions of extremists in the West (and elsewhere, perhaps those who attack Muslims in Central Africa or the southern Philippines) are labeled "Christian extremist." And why not, especially when the perps themselves claim to act under that banner? The rest of us may say that we deplore their actions, but seriously, what do we do about it? If we really cared about the honor & glory of our own spiritual traditions, we all would most ferociously attack those committing these sins in our name, or who claim to defend our faith community by desecrating its name with every murder they commit.
These Myanmar "Buddhists" don't follow Buddha But that won't matter, til other Buddhists are willing to kill them to protect Buddha's name. Til then, join the club of mild-mannered hypocrites. Welcome!
The West labels Al Qaeda & ISIS "radical Muslim." The actions of extremists in the West (and elsewhere, perhaps those who attack Muslims in Central Africa or the southern Philippines) are labeled "Christian extremist." And why not, especially when the perps themselves claim to act under that banner? The rest of us may say that we deplore their actions, but seriously, what do we do about it? If we really cared about the honor & glory of our own spiritual traditions, we all would most ferociously attack those committing these sins in our name, or who claim to defend our faith community by desecrating its name with every murder they commit.
These Myanmar "Buddhists" don't follow Buddha But that won't matter, til other Buddhists are willing to kill them to protect Buddha's name. Til then, join the club of mild-mannered hypocrites. Welcome!
22
Oh for God's sake, do you really think that Buddhism is so pure a religion that it can't be hijacked, like any other faith, to serve militant actions against the "other?"
Go to Myanmar and see the temples where the military men offer expensive stuff to Buddha. Westerners who have a pie-eyed view of Buddhism need a reality check.
Go to Myanmar and see the temples where the military men offer expensive stuff to Buddha. Westerners who have a pie-eyed view of Buddhism need a reality check.
27
This latest tragedy in the conflict between Rohingya Muslims & Myanmar Buddhists is wrong by any measure. But so were the events of August 25, which the NYT downplays. That's when machete-wielding members of the Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army (ARSA), an Islamic terrorist group previously known as Harakah al-Yaqin( Faith Movement), attacked 24 Myanmar police stations & an army barracks, which also led to many deaths.
And before that attack, there was another attack, this time against Buddhists whose villages were burnt down, which was preceded by other attacks in (fill in month and year, going back 100s of years)...
My point is that understanding the present conflict between Muslims & Buddhists in the Rakhine state requires some history. Today, the Western MSM like to portray the Rohingya in Myanmar all as hapless innocents the Buddhists there persecute for no reason. But the Buddhists see the Rohingya as invaders who've been trying to take over the Rakhine state since the 15th century to turn it into a theocracy where Islam will be the only religion allowed.
It's wrong for Myanmar to persecute the Rohingya. But it's dumb not to see that the Rakhine conflict is part of the same pan-Islamist movement now causing warfare between Islamic militants & govt. forces in the Philippines. It's a movement that goes back 1400 years.
BTW, Thailand & Bangladesh also have been terrible to the Rohingya. Bangladesh is planning to send thousands to a remote island. Plenty of blame...
And before that attack, there was another attack, this time against Buddhists whose villages were burnt down, which was preceded by other attacks in (fill in month and year, going back 100s of years)...
My point is that understanding the present conflict between Muslims & Buddhists in the Rakhine state requires some history. Today, the Western MSM like to portray the Rohingya in Myanmar all as hapless innocents the Buddhists there persecute for no reason. But the Buddhists see the Rohingya as invaders who've been trying to take over the Rakhine state since the 15th century to turn it into a theocracy where Islam will be the only religion allowed.
It's wrong for Myanmar to persecute the Rohingya. But it's dumb not to see that the Rakhine conflict is part of the same pan-Islamist movement now causing warfare between Islamic militants & govt. forces in the Philippines. It's a movement that goes back 1400 years.
BTW, Thailand & Bangladesh also have been terrible to the Rohingya. Bangladesh is planning to send thousands to a remote island. Plenty of blame...
134
bad people on both side???
8
Thank you for the detail, where the Devil always is... and plenty of Devils in these histories.
8
This is what the end of the British Empire did to the Indian subcontinent----unresolved boundaries, displaced populations, ethnic resentments, poverty etc.
Burmese Buddhist antagonism toward resident Muslims goes back at least to the British colonial period. Twice, in 1977-78 and in 1992, Burma's military regime sought to expel the Rohingyas from the country, and in each case some 200,000-250,000 of them sought refuge in overburdened Bangladesh, but finally were mostly repatriated.
There is plenty of blame to share in this humanitarian horror story: the military top brass, who remain determined to carry out ethnic cleansing of minorities, militant Buddhist monks such as Wirathu who preach hatred of non-Buddhist communities, ordinary Burmese Buddhists who are quite happy to see the Muslims go and, sadly, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi who used to be Burma's icon of democracy and human rights.
She is no longer. Instead, she is testimony to the fearsome abyss that both Muslims and non-Muslims face once the Rohingya armed movement is fully backed by international Islamist "terrorists."
There is plenty of blame to share in this humanitarian horror story: the military top brass, who remain determined to carry out ethnic cleansing of minorities, militant Buddhist monks such as Wirathu who preach hatred of non-Buddhist communities, ordinary Burmese Buddhists who are quite happy to see the Muslims go and, sadly, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi who used to be Burma's icon of democracy and human rights.
She is no longer. Instead, she is testimony to the fearsome abyss that both Muslims and non-Muslims face once the Rohingya armed movement is fully backed by international Islamist "terrorists."
32
Mr. Seekins: The Buddhist majority have been attempting to either exterminate or drive out all non-Buddhist minorities since the Japanese invaded the country during WWII. This is not about terrorism but "Ethnic Cleansing." The Buddhists have attacked all the minorities in Myanmar. Your "terrorists" are mostly trying to defend their homes, families and lives.
16
“The Myanmar government wants to eradicate an entire ethnic group.”
That may be so but I suspect it would be so simply because the Myanmari want to wipe out domestic terrorism before it gets out of hand like it is in the West and parts of Indonesia and China.
That may be so but I suspect it would be so simply because the Myanmari want to wipe out domestic terrorism before it gets out of hand like it is in the West and parts of Indonesia and China.
53
Problem, this issue has been ongoing for decades.
Because ethnic cleansing and genocide against a minority that the Buddhist majority have long discriminated against are not indicative of things not "getting out of hand?"
1
As crude a calculation as it is I think you are right. BBC interview with Aung Suu Kyi asked her about this. Interesting her perspective.
Your article neglects to mention several several key points that might be helpful for those seeking to understand the conflict.
First, the President is not in control of the military response to the Rohingya insurgents. Aung San Suu Kyi needs to make a clear statement against these attacks, but Myanmar is not a democracy and she has limited capacity to impact the military's efforts. If she did actively oppose the military, it's unclear whether the average Burmese would follow her. The Rohingya are unpopular because of a combination of government propaganda and a long history of violent separatism.
Second, Saudi Arabia is actively funding the Rohingya insurgents. Contrary to the image in this article that these fighters are "organic" freedom fighters, the group actually has a leader that was trained by the Taliban in Pakistan and lived in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have oil infrastructure in the area, which makes them strategically interested in maintaining political control over Rakhine.
Finally, I suspect that US intelligence is either complicit or at least informed of the origin of these weapons and could probably stop their flow into the region if the US cared at all about this violence. Instead, we'll whip ourselves into a frenzy about these images, undermine Suu Kyi's government, cause the military to pull back some control over the country, and fail to do anything because we never do anything to actually help in conflict zones (we just send weapons).
First, the President is not in control of the military response to the Rohingya insurgents. Aung San Suu Kyi needs to make a clear statement against these attacks, but Myanmar is not a democracy and she has limited capacity to impact the military's efforts. If she did actively oppose the military, it's unclear whether the average Burmese would follow her. The Rohingya are unpopular because of a combination of government propaganda and a long history of violent separatism.
Second, Saudi Arabia is actively funding the Rohingya insurgents. Contrary to the image in this article that these fighters are "organic" freedom fighters, the group actually has a leader that was trained by the Taliban in Pakistan and lived in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have oil infrastructure in the area, which makes them strategically interested in maintaining political control over Rakhine.
Finally, I suspect that US intelligence is either complicit or at least informed of the origin of these weapons and could probably stop their flow into the region if the US cared at all about this violence. Instead, we'll whip ourselves into a frenzy about these images, undermine Suu Kyi's government, cause the military to pull back some control over the country, and fail to do anything because we never do anything to actually help in conflict zones (we just send weapons).
139
Yes. This is exactly what will happen. I want to know why the media is so invested in this Muslim-oppression narrative, and is obfuscating the fact that there is a coordinated, foreign-funded, Islamist separatist movement in this community which has been victimizing poor, Oppressed Hindus and Buddhists of various other ethnic (obviously non-Bamar) groups for some time now. Many Hindus and Buddhists have also been forced to evacuate because of uninstigated attacks by Islamists on their villages.
80
Let me say what should be obvious: true or not, this doesn't justify the firebombing of entire villages by the government.
38
"Second, Saudi Arabia is actively funding the Rohingya insurgents."
Though Saudi Arabia is CERTAINLY no angel, the above statement is an exaggerated one. There have been some reports on this but not fully confirmed it seems.
Besides, this kind of insurgency was PRECISELY what many observers were afraid of in the past. Becuase of the BRUTAL suppression of Rohingya by the Burmese military and government, it was simply a matter of time that a Muslim insurgency in Burma will occur.
Burmese have only THEMSELVES to blame!!!
Moreover, in all likelihood, this kind of insurgency will get worse. There is also a long running Muslim insurgency in Southern Thailand (ANOTHER Buddhist majority country) with covert support from Muslims in Malaysia, a Muslim majority country. There is every possibility that these insurgencies will join hands and together they will cause a lot more mayhem.
Al Queda and ISIS flourish in this sort of situations. If Burma was truly democratic and Aung San Suu Kyi was truly a peace loving person, Buddhist Burmese would have treated Muslim Rohingya properly. One doesn't have to be intelligent to realize that disenfranchised and brutalized people finally take up arms.
There is no surprise here.
Though Saudi Arabia is CERTAINLY no angel, the above statement is an exaggerated one. There have been some reports on this but not fully confirmed it seems.
Besides, this kind of insurgency was PRECISELY what many observers were afraid of in the past. Becuase of the BRUTAL suppression of Rohingya by the Burmese military and government, it was simply a matter of time that a Muslim insurgency in Burma will occur.
Burmese have only THEMSELVES to blame!!!
Moreover, in all likelihood, this kind of insurgency will get worse. There is also a long running Muslim insurgency in Southern Thailand (ANOTHER Buddhist majority country) with covert support from Muslims in Malaysia, a Muslim majority country. There is every possibility that these insurgencies will join hands and together they will cause a lot more mayhem.
Al Queda and ISIS flourish in this sort of situations. If Burma was truly democratic and Aung San Suu Kyi was truly a peace loving person, Buddhist Burmese would have treated Muslim Rohingya properly. One doesn't have to be intelligent to realize that disenfranchised and brutalized people finally take up arms.
There is no surprise here.
12
Myanmar's treatment of the Rohingya has been appalling for years. Unsurprising that this would happen since it is unclear how much control Aun Sang Suu Kyi has over the military in the first place anyhow.
38
Regardless of what kind of control Aung San Suu Kyi has over Burmese military - which is probably very little - she HERSELF has OPENLY claimed that Rohingyas are not Burmese citizens.
She received Nobel Prize for Peace and yet has paid SCANT attention in having peace with Rohingya in Burma.
She received Nobel Prize for Peace and yet has paid SCANT attention in having peace with Rohingya in Burma.
13
It's truly sad if your say is true
What is the UN doing? More attention is being paid to the flood in Houston than this mass atrocity- can't expect any help from the overly blessed, tragically self-involved Americans. South Asian nations, help your fellow sufferers. Sympathetic readers, donate to the world food program. Anything helps.
7
The Governor of Texas made the statement that the Churches should do the rebuild. Most of Texas will only give lip service to helping Houston.
1
Very unjust comment.
11
Why is it always so easy to see religious craziness when it is somewhere else among non Christians but so hard to see here when we have been among the most violent of nations for the last century.
8
I'm pretty sure you have it switched around. We do nothing but criticize Christians in this country and in the broader Western world, that's part of the reason why they've chilled out and have stopped butchering people. Other religions continue to slaughter each other because Westerners, particularly liberals, refuse to criticize them out of fear of being labelled a racist (even though religion is not a race...) and as a result, we get atrocities like this. And from Buddhists, of all people! Violent Buddhists - who knew?
28
Apparently the number of people who knew of violent Buddhists was small enough that a serious academic publisher has this May 2015 offering:
"Buddhism and Violence: Militarism and Buddhism in Modern Asia" (Routledge Studies in Religion) ISBN 1138921890. The Amazon description is worth looking up.
"Buddhism and Violence: Militarism and Buddhism in Modern Asia" (Routledge Studies in Religion) ISBN 1138921890. The Amazon description is worth looking up.
3
Oxford also has published books about warrior monks of Buddhism.
Can a Nobel Peace Prize be withdrawn?
15
After she spent years under house arrest, there was so much hope that she would change the horrible situation in Myanmar. I believe she deserves the Nobel Prize for what she did before she led her country, but it's a tragedy to know what she's done since. For me, the question is: What changed?
I think it should be withdrawn
1
I can think of no greater condemnation of the lack of response from the Aung San Suu Kyi government than these harrowing tales of survival.
Setting aside the laughable and frankly insulting excuses the Burmese government espouses, it is quite apparent that the persons being most harmed by the current violence ate civilians. A disproportionate response to violence that is primarily directed against civilians is a violation is the doctrine of proportionality and a war crime.
Defending war crimes, barring international investigators: it is truly a disgrace that such a Nobel Peace Prize winner would sacrifice her morals on the altar of personal ambition. History will remember her failure.
Setting aside the laughable and frankly insulting excuses the Burmese government espouses, it is quite apparent that the persons being most harmed by the current violence ate civilians. A disproportionate response to violence that is primarily directed against civilians is a violation is the doctrine of proportionality and a war crime.
Defending war crimes, barring international investigators: it is truly a disgrace that such a Nobel Peace Prize winner would sacrifice her morals on the altar of personal ambition. History will remember her failure.
59
We need to concentrate on how to stop these atrocities rather than to assign blame. The UN needs to take a more active role in preventing the continuation of these atrocities.
15
For the record, just war theory as we know it was started by St. Augustine and developed by St. Thomas Aquinas.
Suggested Google search:
origins just war theory
Suggested Google search:
origins just war theory
Violent Buddhists. Yes. Just read Japanese history.
2
There's no reason to try and make sense of any of this, humans are just continuing to show what they are. Other animals don't do this kind of thing to one another. It's hopeless to try and justify ourselves any longer. On the front page of the LA Times this morning was a story about how in effect a dictator like Assad has won. Perhaps they're right. Even when someone like Obama tries and fails, what's the point? There's nothing coming.
3
Actually, other animals do get territorial, fight and drive others out.
1
Would somebody powerful speak up and say, "Not on my watch". This is 2017 and scenes like this are indescribably painful. All these centuries and the world is still not close to achieving civil societies across the world. Painful
3
Don't be so dramatic, the world is clearly and obviously the most peaceful it's ever been in the past 75 years since the end of World War II. This suffering in Myanmar, as horrible as it is, doesn't change that.
Also, can we please stop with the whole "Won't SOMEBODY help these poor people!?" whenever something bad happens? If somebody powerful spoke up and decided to intervene to stop this, you would then be complaining about how they're imperialists and warmongers. Sometimes, there's no happy solution. Learn how to deal with bad people in the world instead of bemoaning how horrible the human race is. We're doing okay, all things considered.
Also, can we please stop with the whole "Won't SOMEBODY help these poor people!?" whenever something bad happens? If somebody powerful spoke up and decided to intervene to stop this, you would then be complaining about how they're imperialists and warmongers. Sometimes, there's no happy solution. Learn how to deal with bad people in the world instead of bemoaning how horrible the human race is. We're doing okay, all things considered.
18
Thank you. I realize i had written emotionallly without knowing the full lback story. But unlikely to not (privately) bemoan how horrible the human race is - towards the environment and towards each other. If you are thing we are doing okay "all things considered", good for you.
1
There is one giant ray of hope I see in this story -- some of these farmers already have solar panels, and when possible struggled to bring them along. Seriously, if (or once) most farmers, and whole countries, have solar panels, say about 5-10 kW per person, these sorts of conflicts may become increasingly obsolete. More kW would be better, but that much would be a start. Right now, the most critical need is probably to replace firewood with enough panels and a battery to run a hot plate for cooking and hot water.
11
A horrific disaster that will only further embolden Islamic extremists around the world who preach that "their" people can only ever be safe as members of the religious majority. People as far away from Burma as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi are probably watching.
Aung Sang Suu Kyi has turned into an embarrassment and disgrace, like so many other post-colonial "freedom fighters" in Asia and Africa who turned despotic upon assuming power (see Suharto, Kwame Nkrumah, Robert Mugabe, Julius Nyerere, Syngman Rhee, etc.).
Aung Sang Suu Kyi has turned into an embarrassment and disgrace, like so many other post-colonial "freedom fighters" in Asia and Africa who turned despotic upon assuming power (see Suharto, Kwame Nkrumah, Robert Mugabe, Julius Nyerere, Syngman Rhee, etc.).
24
That is why we are trying to root out the evil. If we do little to eradicate evil muslim extremists, guys like you who threatens us with the "future extremism" will continue to support your "brother" quietly.
18
Yes- we should surrender completely to prevent our enemies from winning.
1
It is terrible what is happening to them.
Bangladesh should take them in permanently. Bangladesh, both as an independent country, and especially, as a former part of Pakistan, drove out millions of Hindus and Buddhists into India, seizing their land and not returning it to this day, because their religion was not Muslim. To take a few hundred thousand Rohingya (Bengali Muslims born in Myanmar) is a reasonable thing to ask as compensation for what was done.
Bangladesh should take them in permanently. Bangladesh, both as an independent country, and especially, as a former part of Pakistan, drove out millions of Hindus and Buddhists into India, seizing their land and not returning it to this day, because their religion was not Muslim. To take a few hundred thousand Rohingya (Bengali Muslims born in Myanmar) is a reasonable thing to ask as compensation for what was done.
47
Amanda, what are your thoughts on the people who are committing these atrocities today?
Also, is your name really Amanda?
Also, is your name really Amanda?
4
Where is your humanity? What if it was your brother, sister or mother where the ones that were killed or starving? The Buddhist religion is not a peaceful religion, hope this a wake up call
You are asking one of the most over populated country in the world hundreds of thousands refugee while your own country is rejecting refugees based in religion, such hypocrisy.
1
such hopes when they drove out the junta
Aung San Suu Kyi - from Nobel Peace Prize Winner to mass murderer. How does it feel, eh?
13
It's a complex situation. As others have said, it's unclear how much influence she has over the police and military. In order to bring "democracy" to Burma, she has had to make compromises--with law enforcement and the military, and likely with majority ethnic and religious groups. Standing up for the Rohingya won't win her any friends among those constituencies.
That said, I believe she has always been a bit cagey about the Rohingya question. These latest atrocities, if true, will undoubtedly taint her Nobel Prize and probably make the Nobel committee very uncomfortable as well.
That said, I believe she has always been a bit cagey about the Rohingya question. These latest atrocities, if true, will undoubtedly taint her Nobel Prize and probably make the Nobel committee very uncomfortable as well.
5
When will the unseeing worshipers of the peace prize "winner" Daw Aung San Suu Kyi acknowledge the blood of innocent children, women and men on her hands?
73
What's the big deal? They gave the Peace Prize to Yassir Arafat, an unrepentant terrorist.
3
As long as we think she is a selfless leader she would not do anything to prevent further Genocide. She has money in foreign accounts provided for by the Western powers, what does she care.
1
Do you know if Aun San Suu Kyi controls the military? They kept her under house arrest for years, despite international pressure. After she was released she won the election. Now there are attacks on the Rohynga, who respond with force and the military seizes the opportunity. Don't be surprised if Aun San Suu Kyi is deposed. And hold off your criticism until you have walked a mile in her moccasins.
Im glad I live in America. Everyone always talks about us like we are just a horrible racist country filled with death and violence for minorities, but really America is better than 90% of the rest of the world. These people are being massacred right now by a country who refuses to even admit that they exist.
I mean, Im a queer polyamorous transgender atheist. Id be dead if I was born in 90% of the world.
I hope Myanmar gets its act together and realizes that they are murdering human beings. They wont though, bc most of the world still is in some sort of Dark Ages religious war, fighting over Gods that dont exist.
I mean, Im a queer polyamorous transgender atheist. Id be dead if I was born in 90% of the world.
I hope Myanmar gets its act together and realizes that they are murdering human beings. They wont though, bc most of the world still is in some sort of Dark Ages religious war, fighting over Gods that dont exist.
34
It is all about survival. We must fight for our country. Otherwise we will be run over.
18
That's what Nazis said about Jews in Germany. A similarly small minority and similarly unfounded justification of genocide in the name of 'national survival', as Nazis say again in America about 'white survival' again today. The same lies, fear-mongering, incitement of fear, murder, genocide.
14
Could you please elaborate? 'Run over' in what sense? What are the respective birth rates for the Rohingyas and the Burmese?
1
Tragic as the Texas flooding is, it is nothing compared to the suffering in Burma and the flooding in India, Nepal and Bangladesh, all of which have been barely mentioned in the MSM. People find it hard to connect with the suffering of those who are different from them. Thanks to the NYT for reporting this.
40
Yet another country where the religious majority are killing the religious minority. The ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya people from Myanmar by the Buddhist majority is heartbreaking. Aung San Sun Kyi's silence can only suggest her assent as her fellow Nobel Laureate's have warned. While the Rohingya wait for her to rediscover her voice, where is the UN?
19
There is no such thing as a Buddhist majority in Myanmar. The ethnic group in question has itself been marginalized by the Bamar people, who are the largest ethnic group in Burma. Try to keep up.
6
Keeping up misinformation doesn't change the facts: Buddhist majority in Burma and in Rakhine State, too, with persecution often organized nationally with explicitly religious motivation. Granting the national ethnic minority status of the Buddhist Rakhine, the majority in Rakhine State, can't change these facts.
6