The "Prosperity Doctrine" is an outgrowth of capitalism. These folks are definitely not followers of Jesus Christ who was a humble carpenter who did not get rich off his ministry. Jesus ministry was focused on good works and decency to others not how much money or material goods God would give you if you tithed.
Unfortunately, we have grifters in our society who see the sheep and shear them.
Unfortunately, we have grifters in our society who see the sheep and shear them.
127
it seems to me that there is magical thinking involved in the worship of preachers like Osteen and politicians like Trump: If I hang out with these rich and powerful people I will become like them. Alas, it mostly works for the Osteens and Trumps of our time.
54
I tremble with fear at the number of my fellow humans who absolutely
Need others to lead them.Those who stand in pulpits are often chosen and
I'm convinced are a number of times crooks looking for big bucks and adoration
From people who refuse to think for themselves.
Remember Jones and the kool aid mass suiside?You and you alone are responsible for you life.Trump cares no more for you then an ant on his sidewalk.Think ,for the sake of you and your family
Need others to lead them.Those who stand in pulpits are often chosen and
I'm convinced are a number of times crooks looking for big bucks and adoration
From people who refuse to think for themselves.
Remember Jones and the kool aid mass suiside?You and you alone are responsible for you life.Trump cares no more for you then an ant on his sidewalk.Think ,for the sake of you and your family
49
It's fine to have dobjections to the appropriateness of the president's pardon of Mr. Arpaio. I do. But to attempt to connect that action with the (in)action of Osteen just to score some partisan points is all too indicative of how unhinged the Left has become of late. I really do believe that if Donald Trump announced tomorrow that he had discovered and was giving to the world a cure for pancreatic cancer, voices like this one would sneer that he had left lung and colon cancer uncured, and that he thus hated those who suffer from those maladies.
11
The images I see from Houston show people of all ages, faiths and colors literally holding onto each other so as not to be swept away. I see good and brave first responders and volunteers risking life and limb to assist neighbors in their time of need. I'd love to see a demographic of these volunteers - I bet they're almost all working people, willing to get cold, wet and filthy. These are Jesus' children! Shame on Joel Osteen.
59
Fake Christians. Their Jesus tells them quite explicitly (Matthew 19:24) that rich men basically don't get into Heaven, yet these ministers & politicians and their respective flocks ignore this inconvenient part of the New Testament. They often forget the Commandment abut bearing false witness (lying), too.
46
Both Osteen & Trump are snake oil salesmen. They look very small when their fraud is shown for what it is. Now, let's hope we'll be rid of them and all their ilk.
48
Heaven can be in how we treat one another.
Likewise, hell.
Likewise, hell.
37
As a soldier stationed at Fort Sam Houston, I drove my Datsun at high speeds across Texas, always doing something with my church group, seeking pennance for the sins that lead me into rehab and my brother into the grave.
Previously, God told me to go to Corpus Christi where I spent three days on Padre Island on a cold, desolate February beach, fasting and praying. I left that beach a new man (actually boy-I was 21), committed to doing all that I could do to serve God and fellow humans.
Love God. Love others as self. Simple message. I offer it for free.
That young man is grown now. My conversion experience was powerful, but the excitement and commitment has significantly changed over the years. But my understanding of Christian fundamentals has not changed.
Osteen is a fraud. Trump is a fool.
And me? A liitle of both. But my chosen occupation is teacher.
Previously, God told me to go to Corpus Christi where I spent three days on Padre Island on a cold, desolate February beach, fasting and praying. I left that beach a new man (actually boy-I was 21), committed to doing all that I could do to serve God and fellow humans.
Love God. Love others as self. Simple message. I offer it for free.
That young man is grown now. My conversion experience was powerful, but the excitement and commitment has significantly changed over the years. But my understanding of Christian fundamentals has not changed.
Osteen is a fraud. Trump is a fool.
And me? A liitle of both. But my chosen occupation is teacher.
93
I have been disgusted with these televangelists for over 40 years. How have they become so powerful? So huge? So respected?
How did these companies qualify for tax exemption? The pastors have lavish life styles, own their own planes and have several residences. In other words, they are the 1%.
I believe in the integrity of our major religions.
But, these for prophet churches should pay taxes. They could help the national debt. They are wolves in sheep's clothing, snakes in the grass and they prey on the vulnerable.
Remember when Janis Joplin sang "Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?"
How did these companies qualify for tax exemption? The pastors have lavish life styles, own their own planes and have several residences. In other words, they are the 1%.
I believe in the integrity of our major religions.
But, these for prophet churches should pay taxes. They could help the national debt. They are wolves in sheep's clothing, snakes in the grass and they prey on the vulnerable.
Remember when Janis Joplin sang "Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?"
68
See Feuerbach, "The Essence of Christianity." That is--Christianity as opposed to the teachings of Jesus.
Earthly life is just a ticket to heaven. Doesn't matter if you are poor miserable--obey your preacher and the nobles and Heaven will be yours. The priests and nobles of course get both heaven and heaven on earth.
Christianity was an invention of Pharisee Paul--marketing the life and death of Jesus through Leviticus--Jesus was a human sacrifice for Yahweh/god to open heaven--immortality/after-life--after he closed them as punishment for Adam/Eve sins. (Vicious vicarious liability, no? Alive AND dead?) All you need do is believe and submit.
But obviously the myth sells. Calvin and Osteen sell an edited version--more like Moses's--believe, submit and pay--you'll get land, milk and honey--real estate and prosperity--as well as heaven, later.
I have another Ponzi scheme for you...
Earthly life is just a ticket to heaven. Doesn't matter if you are poor miserable--obey your preacher and the nobles and Heaven will be yours. The priests and nobles of course get both heaven and heaven on earth.
Christianity was an invention of Pharisee Paul--marketing the life and death of Jesus through Leviticus--Jesus was a human sacrifice for Yahweh/god to open heaven--immortality/after-life--after he closed them as punishment for Adam/Eve sins. (Vicious vicarious liability, no? Alive AND dead?) All you need do is believe and submit.
But obviously the myth sells. Calvin and Osteen sell an edited version--more like Moses's--believe, submit and pay--you'll get land, milk and honey--real estate and prosperity--as well as heaven, later.
I have another Ponzi scheme for you...
18
Please don't compare Joel Osteen to our commander in chief. I don't have a personal experience with either but pastor Osteen never condones the behavior of the unGodly. Re-evaluate the comparisons and unbundled this piece and present your criticisms separately.
11
This is really beyond the pale. You may disagree with Osteen's theology - I do - but it's not like is followers are driving vans into pedestrians. Weak. Very weak...
10
Tax the churches.
57
Back in the Tea Party days you'd see signs, Keep the Government out of my Medicare. Ignorance. The Government is only good for these Republicans if they personally need it. Sickening.
25
Mr. Osteen attended Oral Roberts University where he earned a degree in media communications, not religious studies. He has never studied divinity in a scholarly way; thus, his sermons are filled with positive affirmations instead of Scriptural antidotes. Faced with the hurricane disaster, I imagine his biggest fear was having to face his followers during their greatest time of need and not know how to give them genuine reassurance. Platitudes are useless in times of real trouble.
63
Religion and faith in God is helping a lot of people cope right now in this time of tragedy. CNN had an article about a family that lost their home and possessions but the one thing that was standing untouched was a statue of the Blessed Mother. This gave the family hope and peace and the courage to go on living. What is the alternative? Many of the people in Texas have strong religious beliefs and they should be respected and admired.
13
Sadly, I doubt anything will change in the aftermath of this disaster, in terms of the things mentioned in the article. After all nothing changed in the aftermath of Katrina either.
Trump and Osteen can't change, and people should stop waiting for them to do so. They simply do not possess the ability to empathize with other people's suffering, trials or tribulations. Because in their minds they are the only ones who matter. That type of self-adulation is at the very core of who they are as individuals.
So people should instead try to change themselves, as to how they react and deal with one another in these situations. Maybe if enough of them do that, Osteen's and Trump's prosperity gospel will finally show its hollow nature for all to see...
Trump and Osteen can't change, and people should stop waiting for them to do so. They simply do not possess the ability to empathize with other people's suffering, trials or tribulations. Because in their minds they are the only ones who matter. That type of self-adulation is at the very core of who they are as individuals.
So people should instead try to change themselves, as to how they react and deal with one another in these situations. Maybe if enough of them do that, Osteen's and Trump's prosperity gospel will finally show its hollow nature for all to see...
11
Joel,
Words have to be balance by deeds. When people are fortunate in life to have accumulated millions at a relatively young age and live in expensive homes worth millions in fancy neighbourhoods, and have the ability to help those in Need with millions of dollars in funds that have been collected from Believers, then God expects those people to help take care of His own and the Suffering and the Displaced and the poor people wading in chest deep water along with the Widow and the Orphan.
Waiting for the city to call you and request help ??????
Words fail me .
Words have to be balance by deeds. When people are fortunate in life to have accumulated millions at a relatively young age and live in expensive homes worth millions in fancy neighbourhoods, and have the ability to help those in Need with millions of dollars in funds that have been collected from Believers, then God expects those people to help take care of His own and the Suffering and the Displaced and the poor people wading in chest deep water along with the Widow and the Orphan.
Waiting for the city to call you and request help ??????
Words fail me .
49
Like Trump, Osteen inherited his "church" from Daddy.
37
Mr. Trump and Mr. Osteen are salesmen, nothing more. They have a gift for selling to the needy, things they can only dream about. Back in the day they were called snake oil salesmen. They run cons on people's emotions. The best defense is to understand their promises are about enriching themselves, not others. Believing in a higher power is powerful but the more one is promised the less likely it is to be true.
31
Churches had better step up when natural disaster strikes, or why continue to subsidize them by leaving them free of taxation? In truth, it's more efficient to tax them, and have the government redistribute the money, but conservatives prefer "self-reliance."
32
Many Republicans share values with their sponsors the Koch brothers, the multi-billionaires who believe in taking away entitlements like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, and food stamps from the nation's most vulnerable citizens. The Koch brothers apparently have such a deep fear of Socialism that they hold seminars for the very wealthy, many who are, reportedly, Republican. I'm not exactly sure how Evangelicals got mixed up in all of this, but apparently many have with their strange ideas that Christ will reward the rich.
In my reading of the Gospels, Jesus Christ was a poor Prophet who preached a message of hope and love to the poorest amongst Hebrews in Roman Palestine. I can't imagine him saying or doing what many of his followers say or do today, especially that he was the only game in town, just the only game for that time in history. Other religions came before Christianity, and others came after it. In my opinion, they all come from the same Source. Respect for all religions is a prize to be cherished. Hope and love is what disaster victims need along with dry clothes and and warm beds.
In my reading of the Gospels, Jesus Christ was a poor Prophet who preached a message of hope and love to the poorest amongst Hebrews in Roman Palestine. I can't imagine him saying or doing what many of his followers say or do today, especially that he was the only game in town, just the only game for that time in history. Other religions came before Christianity, and others came after it. In my opinion, they all come from the same Source. Respect for all religions is a prize to be cherished. Hope and love is what disaster victims need along with dry clothes and and warm beds.
21
This article seems to seethe hostility to organized religion, an attitude that unfortunately is being increasingly found in our secularization of society. As starters, Professor Butler mistakenly equates Joel Osteen, the televangelist of an evangelical congregation, with President Trump, who is probably the least religious of modern Presidents. While he courted the evangelical vote, President Trump is not particularly religious, much less someone who is involved in an organized religion. During the campaign, he frequently evidenced an unfamiliarity with the Bible and was unable to state where he even attended church. Pastor Osteen is a religious figure, although his brand of religious philosophy is eclectic. What one has to remember is that all religions are run on earth by human beings who are inherently fallible. As a Roman Catholic, I recognize that while the Pope is infallible in religious doctrine, he is mortal and the bishops, priests and deacons who serve under him are also humans who can err. Pastor Osteen may have made a mistake in denying refugees entry to his church, but he rectified that mistake and his religious center is open to refugees whom are being cared for by volunteers. In short, Christianity and Judaism recognize that human beings are imperfect and may stray at times, but have redemptive powers and can atone for their mistakes. That is the true message of religion, one that has been borne out by human experience, including Hurricane Harvey.
20
@ Christopher
Well said. Thanks for providing a calm, balanced viewpoint.
Well said. Thanks for providing a calm, balanced viewpoint.
3
Actually, Trump has said he was influenced by Price, who taught power of positive thinking leading to wealth.
10
Anthea nailed it! Nothing more to say. Sometimes the truth is painful and can quickly wipe away a smiley face. Cheap grace goes down the drain real fast especially in a Hurricane. The prophet from the Hebrew Bible is calling from among the dead: 'Comfort, comfort my people, says your God.'
10
Both Trump and Osteen are capitalists first and foremost, and (arguably) followers of Christ. Osteen is a perfect example of why tax exempt status should be rescinded to religious groups. He is a sham artist-don't share your prosperity with his church. Trump is indeed morally bankrupt
23
All the hate spewed on these pages is discouraging and sad. Who knows where it will lead - nowhere good.
6
Well the Bible says "The Truth Will Set You Free".
Osteen and Trump could start there. It is not hateful to point out their hypocrisy.
Osteen and Trump could start there. It is not hateful to point out their hypocrisy.
20
That is a sweeping platitude.
Accepting bad ethics is worse than disdaining them.
Bad ethics = no ethics,
Accepting bad ethics is worse than disdaining them.
Bad ethics = no ethics,
9
Osteen is a phony. He represents my faith as a Christian about as much as extremist represent the Muslim faith. No comparison. Last, his prosperity gospel is a perversion and has nothing to do with the teaching in the NT.
26
One of the legends Judaism has had for a millennium is that the Messiah, if he comes, will go to a street corner disguised as a filthy, smelly, disgusting looking beggar.
He will test the willingness of people to show kindness and give him aid.
If the population fails that test, he will leave. They will lose the "coming of the Messiah".
The pastor failed the test,
He will test the willingness of people to show kindness and give him aid.
If the population fails that test, he will leave. They will lose the "coming of the Messiah".
The pastor failed the test,
30
I love this. Among the reasons I carry a pocket full of dollar bills.
And I'm a proud atheist. Just saying.
And I'm a proud atheist. Just saying.
8
I love being an atheist.
19
Oh, how history boomerangs! Moral and economic Calvinism defined conservatism in this country until the Great Depression. Then, they confessed, it "may" be possible for bad things to happen to "good" people. The role of government could be expanded if it directly and positively effected them. Help for Sandy victims? No! Help for Harvey victims? For heaven's sake, yes! Hypocrites? Arguably yes. Consistent adherents to selfishness? Indubitable!
11
Anyone who watches Osteen will note that he rarely mentions God or Jesus. Seriously. It is all feel-good slogans.
13
The Ministers of the "prosperity gospel" forget the words of the Christ in Matthew 6:24, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." It's people like them who give Christianity a bad name.
7
They don't "forget"- they don't care.
5
Pastor Joel Osteen is pure heart and his faith is whole for this Houston Texas crisis and we must stand by his blessings to heal and recover for belief is the remedy and love for our testing - in arm and arm with our love.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
5
Many people, un-asked by anyone, sacrificed their own financial prosperity and risked their own well-being to make their way to Houston to anonymously help people and even pets. Stop any one of them and they will tell you something to the effect of "I'm not a hero, I'm just doing the right thing." Who has really lived more prosperous lives: members of the Cajun Navy or Osteen and Trump?
15
He's just another con artist, like the President. All a con artist needs to gain your confidence is a single point of vulnerability, like joining a church where your friend goes. The story telling, the emotional appeals, the need for greater meaning, or just goodness, all of which are part of almost any religion, can easily be co-opted to the point where you willing hand over your cash. Most are active participants in their own conning. The more we want something to be true, the more susceptible we are. We should have better laws against con men, but often we don't even know we're being conned, till it's too late, and even then, we don't often do anything about it. Taking away tax exemptions for churches and religious institutions would certainly remove financial temptations for the unscrupulous.
9
I don't think comparing President Trump and Pastor Osteen is fair in this context.
From my perspective, Pastor Osteen may have been ill-prepared and made some judgment calls that seem wrong in hindsight. He had no idea how bad the storm would be, how much it would impact roads or the structure of his church or the ability of the church to obtain supplies and enough volunteers to become a 24/7 shelter. If things would have been worse in the area, building or for volunteers, would this reporter be saying, "It's unbelievable that a pastor could put so many people in danger!"???
I am going to be slow to judge. It seems like they're doing the right thing now...and who I am to say it's only because of backlash? Perhaps it's simply because they know things are safe for volunteers and those looking to find shelter in a non-flooded space?
From my perspective, Pastor Osteen may have been ill-prepared and made some judgment calls that seem wrong in hindsight. He had no idea how bad the storm would be, how much it would impact roads or the structure of his church or the ability of the church to obtain supplies and enough volunteers to become a 24/7 shelter. If things would have been worse in the area, building or for volunteers, would this reporter be saying, "It's unbelievable that a pastor could put so many people in danger!"???
I am going to be slow to judge. It seems like they're doing the right thing now...and who I am to say it's only because of backlash? Perhaps it's simply because they know things are safe for volunteers and those looking to find shelter in a non-flooded space?
9
I'm a clergyperson. I understand and sympathize with those who are disgusted with self-serving purveyors of "religion." But please remember that the Joel Osteens of this world don't reflect the faithful behavior of people who sincerely try to follow in the way of Jesus, who taught his disciples an unforgettable lesson by kneeling down in front of each of them and washing their feet, normally a job given to the lowest servant in the household. This is what authentic Godly love looks like whether one is "religious" or not, and for every Joel Osteen there are thousands of silent believers in this kind of love, symbolically washing the feet of others by serving them in compassion and caring wherever the need arises. Houston is full of them right now but we may not recognize them because they're not wearing labels with GOD written on them in large red letters. Many of them are Christians and many are from other traditions, and many are from no tradition. But the menial acts of Love that they are performing for those in need, without waiting to be asked, are as godly as it gets.
31
Thank you for recognizing that we of no tradition can act godly, or, as I might put it, with humanity. I will try to remember that in the future when I am tempted to condemn all believers due to the hypocrisy of some. The foot-washing mentality is a reason why so many non-Catholics have hope for the current Pope.
9
Comparing these two is simply wrong. There are no similarities.
9
They are birds of exactly the same feather in all relevant ways. Both snake oil salesmen who prey on vulnerable people. Both ridiculously rich and truly believe they somehow deserve it. Neither Christian in any meaningful sense of the word.
20
Sounds like jealousy going on here big time. Who cares whether they are rich or poor?
1
Two deceitful con men who bilk their marks while feathering their own nests. Birds of a feather. Finding differences between them is the difficult exercise.
7
I grew up in a religion that taught we were only part of a larger community. Our church may have been poor and our congregation may have been small, but no one left services feeling that they were not a member of a much larger group: The human race. We not only helped and supported each other within the congregation, but organized our efforts to help others within the community and in the world at large. By joining with other churches of all other faiths, shelters were set up on a rotating basis for the homeless, all on a volunteer basis. This inter-faith effort meant that no one church or mosque or temple had to take on the effort alone. All offered clean clothes, a safe, warm place to sleep, hot meals, individual contact with people from very diverse backgrounds who could offer consolation and assistance. Not one of these churches waited for the city, county or state to ask them to do the right thing.
14
The pastors of my church didn't live in fancy houses or drive fancy cars. My first pastor lived in the parsonage provided by the church. His wife was the church organist. He drove a sturdy stationwagon to take him on his rounds throughout the community. My current pastor receives a housing allowance to help him pay for a house in our community. He and his wife have two reliable cars because she has a full-time job. My pastor spends a lot of his time volunteering with the local chapter of Habit for Humanity, raising funds as well as working directly on houses. Every year he and a group from the church go on a self-financed mission trip to help other folks throughout the country. After Katrina they headed down to New Orleans to help with the cleanup. These are true Christians in my book -- followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ. They will be judged by their actions, not by empty words.
29
You are absolutely right. As the Authorized Version renders Psalm 10 vs 2 "For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire and blesseth the covetous whom the Lord abhorreth
What you describe is how it should be.
What you describe is how it should be.
1
President Trump missed a golden opportunity when he visited the Hurricane Harvey disaster area. He could have made a public announcement that the Trump Charitable Trust is accepting donations to aid the victims of the catastrophe. Trump then could have funneled a portion of the donations toward the costs of erecting platinum statues of himself at all Trump resort properties.
With Trump past performance is an accurate indicator of future practices and outcomes.
With Trump past performance is an accurate indicator of future practices and outcomes.
15
"He could have made a public announcement that the Trump Charitable Trust is accepting donations to aid the victims of the catastrophe."
That kind of thinking is completely beyond him--and, apparently, beyond any of the people whose job it was to prepare him for the trip.
That kind of thinking is completely beyond him--and, apparently, beyond any of the people whose job it was to prepare him for the trip.
4
So will those thousands who flock to hear Osteen every Sunday see him for the hypocrite he is or will they ignore, like the Trump supporters, what is clear to all the rest of us?
26
This atheist would like to choose Matthew 19: versus 16 through 25 as the basis of his sermon. A young man came to Jesus asking what he needed to do to be saved in the kingdom of God. Jesus informed him of the commandments which he must obey. The young man said that he obeyed them all. Jesus then said go and sell everything that you have and give it to the poor. The young man went away sorrowful for he had great possessions. There after Jesus said that it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Thus are the words of Jesus. Mr. Osteen, your response?
28
When President Trump climbed down the stairs from Air Force 1 in his boating attire, he looked more like Thurston Howell III than a leader ready to oversee and learn about this horrific disaster. Maybe I'm being too critical, but I think army fatigues and high rubber boots might have created a better image and sent a different message. Why come if you don't even get your toes wet? Why come if what you see, you could watch on TV and kibitz on Twitter? Why come when you give speeches about yourself and bemoan the victims who you never meet nor wish to meet? Why come when all you reveal is a stone cold heart with empathy only for the wealthy like yourself? You showed more empathy for those fine fellows marching with the Nazis, KKK, and White Nationalists. The flood was huge. Your ego huge. But your compassion was miniscule.
32
The preposterous notion that Joel Osteen is a man of God and his mega arena a 'church" has to make us wonder what America is coming to. Osteen, a profiteer and glorified grifter, i.e. an evangelical Madoff actually makes one yearn for Trump who at least doesn't bring God into his conflicts of interests, swindling money grubbing and gouging.
16
Time to realize that there are those who "claim to be Christian" and those who follow Christ.
Olsteen and Donald are faux Christians.
Olsteen and Donald are faux Christians.
10
True representatives of ignorant Christians, who only want what they want, getting rich off of the fear and stupidity of people.
4
The only thing Capitalism and Christianity have in common is they both start with the letter "C". If you know the true history of this country it was built on the pursuit of cash not compassion.
8
Shocked and revolted by this man and his "church". Disgusted by his wealth at the mercy of many poor people. But I believe in karma. He will get what he deserves, maybe he is getting it now. Let's hope so.
11
Moneybags Osteen may not mind read the Diety, but he sure mind reads how to skim millions of dollars from emotionally vulnerable people.
And then in a biblical level catastrophe, he won't voluntarily share? He slams the door of his religious ark shut during the flood?
And then in a biblical level catastrophe, he won't voluntarily share? He slams the door of his religious ark shut during the flood?
10
The four gospels stress different episodes from Jesus' life. If one episode stands out as receiving especially lengthy treatment in three of the four godpels, it is the camel passing through the eye of a needle. This story needs to be understood in the context of "let him who has eyes to see, or ears to hear..." It very clearly means "If you are rich, you are not going to heaven." I believe there was a historical Jesus, and it is clear this was among his chief teachings. Followers of prosperity Christianity may read their Bibles, but they do not have eyes to see.
4
Amen to you, dear Anthea!
3
I admit, the TVangelists are enthralling, I find that most have honed their TV presence after some of the great stand-up comics—Jakes as Dewey Markham, Creflo Dollar as the late Timmy Rodgers, while Osteen and Farrakhan have the same mentor—Fred Allen.
I mean no disrespect to these people, their message is one thing; but their delivery is what sells—after all, they are showmen.
I mean no disrespect to these people, their message is one thing; but their delivery is what sells—after all, they are showmen.
3
Welcome to the Church of the Almighty Dollar.
Isn't that sad that Osteen, a man of the cloth with a huge tax-exempt property and a congregation, didn't think once to open up his doors to the displaced until he was asked? Or derided and scorned from in and around the Twittersphere?
And yet you also have a true pastor of sorts: mattress salesman in Houston, Jim MacIngvale. He's a businessman too, but he opened up his furniture shop during a hurricane to let strangers come in from the floods, rest, drink water, dry off, feel safe. He shows more kindness and compassion than the aforementioned Messrs. Osteen and Trump.
Isn't that sad that Osteen, a man of the cloth with a huge tax-exempt property and a congregation, didn't think once to open up his doors to the displaced until he was asked? Or derided and scorned from in and around the Twittersphere?
And yet you also have a true pastor of sorts: mattress salesman in Houston, Jim MacIngvale. He's a businessman too, but he opened up his furniture shop during a hurricane to let strangers come in from the floods, rest, drink water, dry off, feel safe. He shows more kindness and compassion than the aforementioned Messrs. Osteen and Trump.
23
I feel like ordering my next mattress from that wonderful Houston man--even though I live in northern Ohio.
19
should check your facts. Did you not see the pictures of a foot of water in their building & outside...and the fact that yes when the building was accessible the church did take people in on the second floor, which was dry? What did the writer of this snide column do to help people in the flood?
2
The fact is that Osteen had to be publicly humiliated to do the right thing.
7
An obvious answer to Bruce Rozenblit's question about why the original loving Jesus sect turned into prosperity doctrine, an anti-Jesus cult, from another Jew. The Ten Commandment addressed the loathsome aspects of human behavior. Beauty and horror, the schizoid species, that's why there is such corruption. William James said that all institutions have the seeds of their own corruption, even if they do some good. Look at how Judaism can be corrupted--e.g. The Haredi sect. Prosperity doctrine is from Calvinism, the idea of the elect. It was the philosophical justification for capitalism. What do you think "Manifest Destiny" means, it IS prosperity doctrine. What you ask about is the same old thing, exaggerated and done in the blowhard style by men like Osteen and Trump. The right likes the old ways, only God's favored are winners. You are offensive to God if you are poor. How do you know you are favored, you prosper materially. Thus you are superior, one of the ELECT. The original Jesus sect was transformed almost immediately. By 90 AD we see The Gospel Of John, filled with hatred of Jews, very loving, right? Political power corrupted the Christians a long time ago. People with anti-Christian vaules are just one more Orwellian group of liars, too deluded and ignorant of Christian ethics to care about such trivial things as compassion and the golden rule. The Midas cult is a better name for all thesedespicable these frauds like Trump. Christiian, what a joke!
2
If God, or fate, or karma, or whatever makes one man Bill Gates and another lives out of a shopping cart under a highway overpass, who are any of us, individually or as a group, religiously or secular, to tamper with that?
1
I try to live the example that Christ showed the world and, therefore, could never be an American Christian.
12
This guy is the Martin Shkreli of a giant queue of Christian con men. I'm sure Joel and his "praise Jesus" grin will be front and center at Gov. Abbott's "day of Prayer" next Sunday.
12
I hope so! I pray it's televised for all to see.
Trump and Olsteen reflect the predetermination of Calvinist theocracy that preaches that God has foreordained who will be saved and who won't and that those who are materially successful in life are blessed by God while the rest of us are saps. The Gospel of Prosperity was the subject of the novel "Elmer Gantry" that revealed the hypocrisy behind the con artists hiding in the robes of sanctity.
In effect, Trump and Olsteen don't want to dirty their sleeves in dealing with those who have actually been hit by the hurricane and subsequent flooding. Instead, they stand on the periphery and make grand statements about the lives of people they do not know and do not wish to meet.
In effect, Trump and Olsteen don't want to dirty their sleeves in dealing with those who have actually been hit by the hurricane and subsequent flooding. Instead, they stand on the periphery and make grand statements about the lives of people they do not know and do not wish to meet.
4
I know more atheists that act as Jesus taught than these selfish, self serving evangelicals.
19
@jts
Yes, His example was profound and they owe His example quite a debt of gratitude.
Yes, His example was profound and they owe His example quite a debt of gratitude.
2
Oh, he would be shocked at what is said and done in his name.
And incidentally, he lived, and died, as a practicing Jew.
And incidentally, he lived, and died, as a practicing Jew.
7
I fully understand the Liberal "need" to call out hypocrisy in the Christian church.
But there is very little willingness to do so when it treads close to Liberal values, and I will provide some examples:
- Violence in the name of "suppression" of nationalism (Antifa)
- Defense of all Americans to hold views in opposition (lest they be called "stupid", "ignorant" or deplorable) to Liberal/Democratic/Progressive.
- Defense of free speech...too many examples last year to mention, from Missouri to Middlebury.
- Criticism of radical Muslim ideology (something even Obama was incapable of doing).
It is one thing to pile on with the Conservatives and their willful blindness. But I see to many examples from the Left where a left of openness is supposed to be encouraged.
Apparently, not so. And a strong tendency of piety when the occasion suits.
But there is very little willingness to do so when it treads close to Liberal values, and I will provide some examples:
- Violence in the name of "suppression" of nationalism (Antifa)
- Defense of all Americans to hold views in opposition (lest they be called "stupid", "ignorant" or deplorable) to Liberal/Democratic/Progressive.
- Defense of free speech...too many examples last year to mention, from Missouri to Middlebury.
- Criticism of radical Muslim ideology (something even Obama was incapable of doing).
It is one thing to pile on with the Conservatives and their willful blindness. But I see to many examples from the Left where a left of openness is supposed to be encouraged.
Apparently, not so. And a strong tendency of piety when the occasion suits.
7
As a liberal Christian (or if you prefer, a Christian liberal), I do need to call out the hypocrisy of anyone who claims to be a Christian but goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
As a liberal, I do not hesitate to condemn the violence of the anti-fa, who to me are not true liberalsbut rather anarchists who don't want to improve our society but instead destroy it.
As a liberal, I also support free speech, even when I don't agree with it. I even support the right of neo-Nazis and white supremacists to march with swastikas and Confederate flags to protest taking down statues. What I don't support is marching with weapons and torches to intimidate those who disagree with you, whether you're nazi or anti-fa. Weapons and torches infringe on the freedom of speech of those who disagree with you. (I don't have a problem with candles, though.)
And finally, as a liberal Christian, I condemn all radical religious ideology, whether it is the radical "Islam" of the Taliban, Al queda, Boko Haram, and ISIS, or the radical right-wing Zionists of Netanyahu, or the radical "Christianity" of Timothy McVeigh, the Olympic bomber, "pro-life" killers.
As a liberal, I do not hesitate to condemn the violence of the anti-fa, who to me are not true liberalsbut rather anarchists who don't want to improve our society but instead destroy it.
As a liberal, I also support free speech, even when I don't agree with it. I even support the right of neo-Nazis and white supremacists to march with swastikas and Confederate flags to protest taking down statues. What I don't support is marching with weapons and torches to intimidate those who disagree with you, whether you're nazi or anti-fa. Weapons and torches infringe on the freedom of speech of those who disagree with you. (I don't have a problem with candles, though.)
And finally, as a liberal Christian, I condemn all radical religious ideology, whether it is the radical "Islam" of the Taliban, Al queda, Boko Haram, and ISIS, or the radical right-wing Zionists of Netanyahu, or the radical "Christianity" of Timothy McVeigh, the Olympic bomber, "pro-life" killers.
10
More "whataboutisms" from the right. If you ever read the Bible you would know that Jesus had liberal idealogies.
5
Joel Osteen caused major damage to his brand. It is going to take a ton of work to repair it - if he can repair it at all.
Joel earns a lot of money selling his books. They are printed in dozens of languages and are sold around the world. It is a major source of his wealth. I do not know anything about the money flowing into his church. I don't know if he collects a salary. All I know is he messed up big-time in the eyes of the public for not opening his church's doors to people who needed shelter. This mistake is going to cost him $$$ through the decline in sales of his books. Just you watch.
Joel, I hope you learn something from this mess. Remember what Jesus wanted us to do: Love the Lord your God with all you heart and all your soul and all your mind and all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.
What would Jesus do, Joel?
Joel earns a lot of money selling his books. They are printed in dozens of languages and are sold around the world. It is a major source of his wealth. I do not know anything about the money flowing into his church. I don't know if he collects a salary. All I know is he messed up big-time in the eyes of the public for not opening his church's doors to people who needed shelter. This mistake is going to cost him $$$ through the decline in sales of his books. Just you watch.
Joel, I hope you learn something from this mess. Remember what Jesus wanted us to do: Love the Lord your God with all you heart and all your soul and all your mind and all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.
What would Jesus do, Joel?
5
Back in the 1500s, not long after Luther broke with the Catholic Church, John Calvin introduced the notion of "Godliness equals Wealth." It's really St. Augustine talking: 'You CAN serve God and Mammon!' Isn't that great news, folks?!
You see, God has chosen the Elect, the ones who should rule over us, and it is our duty to bow to them. How do we know who they are? Well, look for signs of their "election," and among those signs--perhaps the most conspicuous--is that they are Prosperous--healthy, pious, sure, but mostly Wealthy.
So in Calvinism you find a happy marriage of Capitalism and Christianity (especially Presbyterianism in Scotland, English Non-Conformism, and Puritanism and now Congregationalism in America of the 1600s.)
The rise of the modern nation-state coincided with the emergence of this Capitalism/Christianity union, and you'll find that as those same countries embraced their Nationhood they broke with the Church, embracing Protestantism: Germany, The Netherlands, Scotland, Switzerland. In Switzerland, in Calvin's Geneva, especially, we see how society was organized under the Rule of the Elect.
Today, we are the inheritors of an ancient formula: Law and Order and Civic Virtue and Being Rich are all bound up with God, they come from Him (see John Locke and before him the Dutch "Oath of Abjuration").
So keep your heads down if you were left off God's list of the Elect, and remember, Obedience is your portion, Power and Gold for Trump.
You see, God has chosen the Elect, the ones who should rule over us, and it is our duty to bow to them. How do we know who they are? Well, look for signs of their "election," and among those signs--perhaps the most conspicuous--is that they are Prosperous--healthy, pious, sure, but mostly Wealthy.
So in Calvinism you find a happy marriage of Capitalism and Christianity (especially Presbyterianism in Scotland, English Non-Conformism, and Puritanism and now Congregationalism in America of the 1600s.)
The rise of the modern nation-state coincided with the emergence of this Capitalism/Christianity union, and you'll find that as those same countries embraced their Nationhood they broke with the Church, embracing Protestantism: Germany, The Netherlands, Scotland, Switzerland. In Switzerland, in Calvin's Geneva, especially, we see how society was organized under the Rule of the Elect.
Today, we are the inheritors of an ancient formula: Law and Order and Civic Virtue and Being Rich are all bound up with God, they come from Him (see John Locke and before him the Dutch "Oath of Abjuration").
So keep your heads down if you were left off God's list of the Elect, and remember, Obedience is your portion, Power and Gold for Trump.
5
Do away with the charitable deduction. Tax the churches.
17
Let me guess: Is Ted Cruz a follower of his?
6
@Jean
An intelligent Comment should enlighten. Here is Christianity Today, the most respected Evangelical periodical on ted Cruz:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/april-web-only/religion-of-ted-...
You and your ilk would do well to read rather than spout off, for you clearly prefer sound bites about Christians rather than real understanding.
An intelligent Comment should enlighten. Here is Christianity Today, the most respected Evangelical periodical on ted Cruz:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/april-web-only/religion-of-ted-...
You and your ilk would do well to read rather than spout off, for you clearly prefer sound bites about Christians rather than real understanding.
2
Oh, another article that said, to quote it:
"The Texas senator’s message was lifted from an old playbook. For nearly 400 years Americans have been conflating the message of the Bible with the fate of the country. Ever since the Puritan John Winthrop said that the Massachusetts Bay Colony was a “city on a hill” Americans have seen themselves as God’s chosen people—a new Israel with a special destiny."
Really? Americans are more " God's children" than people of other lands?
And by the way, just because Cruz memorized the USCo stitution, it doesn't mean he is ethical.
He has wanted, more than any Senator in our history, to harm citizens and shut down the government if it didn't follow his extremist views.
He also did NOT want aid to the victims of mega storm Sandy.
Don't tell me he is noble, understands care of the most vulnerable, and considers every single American as a SACRED human being.
You are arrogantly assuming I couldn't possibly dislike him if I knew more about him, but you haven 't the foggiest notion how thoroughly I know his positions--and consider them the most destructive of all Senators in DC.
His values stink. He would destroy all for the sake of his so-called " piety".
"The Texas senator’s message was lifted from an old playbook. For nearly 400 years Americans have been conflating the message of the Bible with the fate of the country. Ever since the Puritan John Winthrop said that the Massachusetts Bay Colony was a “city on a hill” Americans have seen themselves as God’s chosen people—a new Israel with a special destiny."
Really? Americans are more " God's children" than people of other lands?
And by the way, just because Cruz memorized the USCo stitution, it doesn't mean he is ethical.
He has wanted, more than any Senator in our history, to harm citizens and shut down the government if it didn't follow his extremist views.
He also did NOT want aid to the victims of mega storm Sandy.
Don't tell me he is noble, understands care of the most vulnerable, and considers every single American as a SACRED human being.
You are arrogantly assuming I couldn't possibly dislike him if I knew more about him, but you haven 't the foggiest notion how thoroughly I know his positions--and consider them the most destructive of all Senators in DC.
His values stink. He would destroy all for the sake of his so-called " piety".
9
The rich have always been much more attached to their money than poorer folks because their wealth gives them security and power which people of average means cannot imagine. Well-meaning citizens are easily duped into thinking that so-called leaders like Trump and Olsteen "have their backs". It is interesting that both men use mass rallies/services in order to brainwash their supporters.
6
God works in amazing ways. As proof of this, here we have two men that have bamboozeled millions of good people so they may become false prophets.
4
Let me guess: Is Ted Cruz a follower of his?
2
Probably not, his old man has his own scam
1
Did the NY Times open up THEIR Houston location to serve as a shelter for those caught in the floods? I don't know the answer, just asking.......
2
Osteen is running a church (allegedly) not a business.
4
There's nothing more enlivening than dropping out of a (any) Christian Church and becoming an atheist. Once that's done, one can get on with the work of Jesus Christ: feeding hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless, healing the sick, and demanding social justice.
5
Mr. Trump could not have demonstrated anything about his soul, because he doesn't have one.
7
All so called churches which are in the business of saving souls should be taxed like any other business. They are making millions exploiting peoples religious beliefs. Osteen runs his church no different than Apple, Google or Amazon. He's selling a product-false hope. Tax him to the max and others of his ilk.
8
Thanks Althea Butler for sharing a thought provoking article. We all have so many questions about suffering and why we are here. In the Bible, the names of God are so revealing. God is Love. There is no quid pro quo – only faith and receiving God’s love.
Income tax returns reveal much about humans, so does the “work” we do, what we say, and our actions. Indeed, various publications imply that the name Trump, for example, may be a brand (property) that could be funded, in part, by money from Russia. If true, it could be “owned” by investors who hold the note to the loan. There are many shiny name and other signs on earthly structures, but none can compare to God. Perhaps a $10 million house truly is a blessing from God, or perhaps not. Why do some shed tears and show compassion in humble, active ways while others do not? Why do some "pastors" avoid God's Word and use their own words instead? For money? God knows each one of us by name. He holds our tears and our hands. Humans have motives and fashion their “religions" to suit them, including exclusivity, prosperity, self-affirmation, self-esteem, positive thinking, etc. Only God can judge a person’s heart or sins.
The Holy Bible NIV
Matthew 6 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, ... "
Ruth 2:12 “May the Lord repay you for what you have done. May you be richly rewarded by the Lord, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.”
Income tax returns reveal much about humans, so does the “work” we do, what we say, and our actions. Indeed, various publications imply that the name Trump, for example, may be a brand (property) that could be funded, in part, by money from Russia. If true, it could be “owned” by investors who hold the note to the loan. There are many shiny name and other signs on earthly structures, but none can compare to God. Perhaps a $10 million house truly is a blessing from God, or perhaps not. Why do some shed tears and show compassion in humble, active ways while others do not? Why do some "pastors" avoid God's Word and use their own words instead? For money? God knows each one of us by name. He holds our tears and our hands. Humans have motives and fashion their “religions" to suit them, including exclusivity, prosperity, self-affirmation, self-esteem, positive thinking, etc. Only God can judge a person’s heart or sins.
The Holy Bible NIV
Matthew 6 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, ... "
Ruth 2:12 “May the Lord repay you for what you have done. May you be richly rewarded by the Lord, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.”
2
More importantly, John 3:16. You forgot that one and that tops 'em all!
1
It is no surprise to me that Trump and others of a great deal of personal wealth, mostly inherited, preach the gospel of success and not scripture as your article states. The reality of the situation is that those who hold all the wealth are only in the one percentile of the total American population. Think of it, one percent of 324 million Americans. The rest of us, or 99%, fall into the middle class and lower income or even poverty brackets and have no trust funds to fall back upon in times of personal bankruptcy.
It is the Gospel of Hypocrisy that gets preached by too many, and they give Christianity a bad name with their faux beliefs built on personal status and not the Bible. Ben Carson's effete statement 'will live on in infamy'.
It is how you live your life that counts, not how you spend your money. God charges no toll at the door when you arrive, and money does not buy power or influence there.
Only money talks to Trump as Trump and Clan Trump are accumulating as much wealth in the world as they can and brand it Trump. The Pharaohs of Egypt did the same in material possessions, and they had it all buried with them, but as any Egyptologist will tell you, the goods are still there. They never made the journey to the after life.
Since we are the majority, we should have the loudest voice in our government. Trump cannot have empathy for others as it is not in his psychological makeup. Trump is all about Trump all of the time. His only god is himself.
It is the Gospel of Hypocrisy that gets preached by too many, and they give Christianity a bad name with their faux beliefs built on personal status and not the Bible. Ben Carson's effete statement 'will live on in infamy'.
It is how you live your life that counts, not how you spend your money. God charges no toll at the door when you arrive, and money does not buy power or influence there.
Only money talks to Trump as Trump and Clan Trump are accumulating as much wealth in the world as they can and brand it Trump. The Pharaohs of Egypt did the same in material possessions, and they had it all buried with them, but as any Egyptologist will tell you, the goods are still there. They never made the journey to the after life.
Since we are the majority, we should have the loudest voice in our government. Trump cannot have empathy for others as it is not in his psychological makeup. Trump is all about Trump all of the time. His only god is himself.
1
People laugh about these kind of flim-flam artists, but I can personally attest that the damage that they do to the people who trust them is very, very real. My grandmother would watch these guys and give away every penny she could (Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker were big at the time) until she was in poverty and dependent on her children to supply her with the basic necessities. If she could have monetized those, she probably would have given them away too.
All the time she was thinking that she was giving her money directly to God and that Jesus was directing how it would be used for His glory on Earth. Instead, these criminals turned around and used that money to live lives of incredible luxury and tacky waste. I am glad she never found out the terrible truth about where her money was going. It would have broken her heart.
Joel Osteen and his slick geniality may be couple degrees off the hucksters of old, but it's the same stupid scam and he is cashing checks with the same blood money. I am glad this incident has provided the opportunity to reveal this monster's soul. Maybe, just maybe, it will save someone else's grandmother from the fate that befell mine.
All the time she was thinking that she was giving her money directly to God and that Jesus was directing how it would be used for His glory on Earth. Instead, these criminals turned around and used that money to live lives of incredible luxury and tacky waste. I am glad she never found out the terrible truth about where her money was going. It would have broken her heart.
Joel Osteen and his slick geniality may be couple degrees off the hucksters of old, but it's the same stupid scam and he is cashing checks with the same blood money. I am glad this incident has provided the opportunity to reveal this monster's soul. Maybe, just maybe, it will save someone else's grandmother from the fate that befell mine.
17
That ain't no church.
11
This op-ed unfairly compares President Trump and Joel Osteen. Trump made his money through hard work, Osteen from hoodwinking gullible people in search of salvation. There is no comparison.
2
The two are comparably shameless operators with long careers bamboozling the gullible.
7
Trump made is money by being born into a rich white family. He now wants us to cut his taxes so we can pay for his excesses. Osteen makes his money bilking gullible fools and not paying any taxes. This is a perfect symmetry of bunko artists.
6
This commentary captures the essence of the pursuit of greed. These 2 men and many others who piously look at themselves as the "winners" lack feeling and empathy. It is simple: What would Jesus or Allah or Budda, or whoever you worship, do? They certainly wouldn't show this heartless disregard for other people.
1
Hat in hand? Trump loves the states that voted for him, and the Republicans control Congress. Plus most of the Democrats aren't hypocrites who will use political posturing as a chance to deny needed disaster relief funds to fellow Americans even if they live in a red state. Even, unlike Sandy, if the flooding and hurricanes occur on a far more frequent basis and the local and state government agencies do nothing to mitigate the impact of future natural disasters.
The real question isn't what the response to Harvey will be. It's how the GOP controlled Congress and Trump would respond if a natural disaster hit Hillary voting liberal blue cities like Los Angeles or San Francisco. BTW Texas might be red trending purple but the large cities are blue. The Texas GOP politicians don't have the chutzpah to blame this one on the gays that live among them and root for the same sports teams while enjoying that famous Texas BBQ!
The real question isn't what the response to Harvey will be. It's how the GOP controlled Congress and Trump would respond if a natural disaster hit Hillary voting liberal blue cities like Los Angeles or San Francisco. BTW Texas might be red trending purple but the large cities are blue. The Texas GOP politicians don't have the chutzpah to blame this one on the gays that live among them and root for the same sports teams while enjoying that famous Texas BBQ!
1
Ripping people off is too easy in our country
The reason for this is that there are too many unscrupulous people in charge of making the rules.
We need more and better oversight.
The reason for this is that there are too many unscrupulous people in charge of making the rules.
We need more and better oversight.
3
It used to be that the Republican Party was about smaller government. Lately it's seemed as if they'd actually prefer no government at all... except, of course, when they are the ones that really need some help.
And the hypocrisy of those conflicting behaviors, which seems stunningly obvious to everyone else, is all but lost on them.
And the hypocrisy of those conflicting behaviors, which seems stunningly obvious to everyone else, is all but lost on them.
1
"[the prosperity gospel] is a belief that says if you think positively and make affirmations, God will reward you with financial success and good health. If you don’t, you may face unemployment, poverty or sickness."
The prosperity gospel is a materialistic this-world worldview. It promises material comforts in life as a reward for conformist, conservative positive thinking and behavior. In contrast, the basis of Christianity is an otherworldy religious worldview. The basis of Christianity is faith that there is an afterlife, i.e. after dying, in another world, not on earth. The true Christian believes that honest work and good behavior in this world will be rewarded with an afterlife in heaven, and that bad behavior, or immorality, will lead to an afterlife in hell. The this-world mythos of the prosperity gospel is closer to paganism, a this-world religion, than Christianity.
The prosperity gospel is a materialistic this-world worldview. It promises material comforts in life as a reward for conformist, conservative positive thinking and behavior. In contrast, the basis of Christianity is an otherworldy religious worldview. The basis of Christianity is faith that there is an afterlife, i.e. after dying, in another world, not on earth. The true Christian believes that honest work and good behavior in this world will be rewarded with an afterlife in heaven, and that bad behavior, or immorality, will lead to an afterlife in hell. The this-world mythos of the prosperity gospel is closer to paganism, a this-world religion, than Christianity.
6
I would tag Joel Osteen with this OpEd piece - but he blocked me after I questioned why he hadn't opened his church to hurricane refugees.
That about sums up the "Prosperity Gospel."
Block out anything or anyone who calls out your "Christian" label as what it really is: a grift.
That about sums up the "Prosperity Gospel."
Block out anything or anyone who calls out your "Christian" label as what it really is: a grift.
16
We had three churches in town: Catholic, mainline Methodist, and conservative Wesleyan. The first two did their thing in low-key, traditional way, while the Wesleyans had a church bus, built a gymnasium, and cut gospel records. The pastor also installed one of his daughters as a teller at the local bank in order to know to the penny the savings of his congregants. My sense is that the "worst" people went to this church, but I could see they were impressed by the amenities and aspirational glamor. I don't think they had the interiority necessary to find meaning in the other churches. They needed a show.
4
The US "prosperity gospel" (including Normal Vincent Peale) are direct descendants of the old Calvinist theology of the "golden age" of the Dutch East India company. What you do in life makes zero difference; some souls are pre-ordained to go to heaven, and wealth is a sign of God's favor. Very convenient.
14
Good point. It was this same "gospel" that consumed the upper class in England during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Those whose livelihoods were displaced by factories were regarded as out of God's favor. So when some of them stole bread to stay alive, they were given harsh sentences. So many of the poor were in prison ships off the coast that the evening walks of the wealthy were "ruined" by the sight of the prison ships. They had to go, but where? Many colonies were considered and they settled on Australia. The poor found Australia so much more appealing than starving in England, that the news of their liking their "prison" home made it back to England over and over. So the wealthy called for daily floggings of all of those out of God's favor.
5
I did not know this was why the prisoners sent to Australia were imprisoned.
Thank you. What a story from history!
Thank you. What a story from history!
I have never voted for a Pastor in Chief: I've voted for a strong leader to preserve our quest for "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
5
Sorry, you didn't get what you voted for.
3
If you voted for the weakest leader in the history of our country, I'd say you certainly wasted your vote.
5
You and Stephen jumped to conclusions in assuming I voted for Trump. I did not. My point was religious principles have never affected my choice in candidates
2
Time for all religious organizations to pay tax. They can deduct their charity like the rest of us, although I'd like to see that deduction eliminated as well.
26
I would hate to see the charitable deduction eliminated.
I have been on the boards of 5 nonprofit organizations, and they already often have a harder time than they did a decade ago, with the National Endowment for the Arts and budgets for scientific and medical research gutted.
I have been on the boards of 5 nonprofit organizations, and they already often have a harder time than they did a decade ago, with the National Endowment for the Arts and budgets for scientific and medical research gutted.
5
The fake pastor and the fake president, both slick con men.
39
It's the followers who trouble me.
6
Joel Osteen is not an ordained minister in any denomination and has no college degree or advanced education in either pastoral care or theology.
Lakewood is not so much a church as a god-themed cabaret. He and his wife (the christmas-eve stewardess slapper) run their theater out of the tax-payer owned former basketball stadium. They are not bad renters - they keep the landscape looking good. Also, Joel has expertise in musical and audio-visual production which entertains some folks, apparently.
But, there is absolutely no pastoral care going on. No support for Katrina evacuees in 2005 - and worse stories I can tell. There is no reason to expect pastoral care this time. He is not a pastor.
This is show business folks - pure and simple.
Lakewood is not so much a church as a god-themed cabaret. He and his wife (the christmas-eve stewardess slapper) run their theater out of the tax-payer owned former basketball stadium. They are not bad renters - they keep the landscape looking good. Also, Joel has expertise in musical and audio-visual production which entertains some folks, apparently.
But, there is absolutely no pastoral care going on. No support for Katrina evacuees in 2005 - and worse stories I can tell. There is no reason to expect pastoral care this time. He is not a pastor.
This is show business folks - pure and simple.
64
I see this disaster; the type of disaster that shows what kind of person is inside.
I see the face and presence of Bobby Kennedy, among the poor and desperate, the deserving and worthy human beings, and reflect on how much we have lost..how we gave positions of leadership to a bunch of losers.
The furniture store owner....if there be a heaven he will be there. In the meantime, he is trying give a piece of it here on earth to his fellow - and at no charge.
I see the face and presence of Bobby Kennedy, among the poor and desperate, the deserving and worthy human beings, and reflect on how much we have lost..how we gave positions of leadership to a bunch of losers.
The furniture store owner....if there be a heaven he will be there. In the meantime, he is trying give a piece of it here on earth to his fellow - and at no charge.
25
The marriage of capital and Jesus in this country is proof enough for me that the Christian Right is neither. Time to stop attending "church" folks and go back to God.
20
Leave it to a liberal to condemn an entire religion based on the behavior of one man in once circumstance, and to condemn a POTUS's entire platform and program based on what she thinks he should have said.
2
Leave it to an intractible, liberal-hating conservative to read more into this article than what was stated, since doing so serves your own blame agenda.
Ms Butler did not malign all Christians, nor even all pastors, and neither did she attack Trump's entire platform. Instead, she outlined the observable behavioral similarity between Trump and Osteen, both of whom use other people relentlessly in pursuit of their own wealth and fame.
Mr Osteen is apparently not even an ordained minister yet leads a so-called megachurch. There have been other fake pastors before him. These are nothing but money temples.
The points that Butler makes about Trump's and Osteen's concern for public appearance, and their inability to show true empathy and humility during this crisis, are on the mark.
Ms Butler did not malign all Christians, nor even all pastors, and neither did she attack Trump's entire platform. Instead, she outlined the observable behavioral similarity between Trump and Osteen, both of whom use other people relentlessly in pursuit of their own wealth and fame.
Mr Osteen is apparently not even an ordained minister yet leads a so-called megachurch. There have been other fake pastors before him. These are nothing but money temples.
The points that Butler makes about Trump's and Osteen's concern for public appearance, and their inability to show true empathy and humility during this crisis, are on the mark.
3
I'm sorry. I read the article very carefully-twice. Where did the writer condemn an entire religion?
3
Dan, I don't think any whole religion was attacked in this piece.
Rather, the Contrast between someone who wears the mantle of being a pastor of a church, yet turns his back on the destitute who need safe dry shelter, bathrooms, food and plenty of hugs.
If a pastor and his church won't dispense loving care during the worst natural disaster in history in our fourth largest city, isn't that a problem?
Doesn't that seem disrespectful of "holiness" and kindness to other humans?
Rather, the Contrast between someone who wears the mantle of being a pastor of a church, yet turns his back on the destitute who need safe dry shelter, bathrooms, food and plenty of hugs.
If a pastor and his church won't dispense loving care during the worst natural disaster in history in our fourth largest city, isn't that a problem?
Doesn't that seem disrespectful of "holiness" and kindness to other humans?
8
Nothing is more prevalent today than people who use religion as a cloak to hide their real motives. Whether the religion being used as a cloak is Christianity, or Islam or Judaism, the people that do this are generally greedy, or downright evil. People have used religion as justification for all manner of horror throughout history. I doubt that it will ever change.
17
Sometimes the cloak is merely covering nationalism--for any of the three major monotheists.
2
Sadly, God didn't approve or bless Jesus, John the Baptist, the early Christians before Constantine, the Hebrew prophets, Mohammed, and other religious leaders who didn't live in luxury and die rich. Buddha was born rich but he walked away rom the kind of life Trump and Osteen covet. Is God that mistaken or is it those who commercialize God?
12
Three alternate vignettes of a terrible tragedy:
1. Forty-dollar cap for sale.
2. Six-inch heels.
3. Hemming and hawing of a prosperity preacher.
1. Forty-dollar cap for sale.
2. Six-inch heels.
3. Hemming and hawing of a prosperity preacher.
18
Osteen, the lowest of the low, cynical, you must be kidding.
12
This new teaching "prosperity gospel" of wealth and health is not the critiria. It dosen't evidence that person is apart of Gods immediate family but it's the witness bearing of Gods spirit that he puts in a person at the time they have that radical super human experience of being born again Romans 8:16 and those who go after this "prosperity gospel" have been misled and/or are living a lie. At this time in history the blessing of wealth has turned into a curse because of the high consumption which has contributed to Co2 and Black Co2 emissions in to the atmosphere and recently many of the wealthy who have died off the media has disclosed end of life struggles with hidious diaeses for years before they go to the grave. The scriptures depict end of life experiences absent hidious diaesesis Eccl 12:1
What it comes down to are you lead by Gods spirit or the spirit of these other gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Word_of_Faith
What it comes down to are you lead by Gods spirit or the spirit of these other gods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology#Word_of_Faith
1
Good grief. If I had not been deeply suspicious of Bible thumpers my whole life, your letter would have convinced me in a moment!
1
"God helps those who help themselves"
~ Although it has been commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin, the modern English wording appears earlier in ALGERNON (1623 – 1683) SIDNEY's work.
• So while the storm churns through Texas and Louisiana, causing floods, death and misery, it is time to consider the damage the prosperity gospel has done to America. Mr. Trump and Mr. Osteen unwittingly revealed its ugly underbelly: the smugness, the self-aggrandizing posturing. It has co-opted many in the Republican Party, readily visible in their relentless desire to strip Americans of health care, disaster relief and infrastructure funding.
~ Although it has been commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin, the modern English wording appears earlier in ALGERNON (1623 – 1683) SIDNEY's work.
• So while the storm churns through Texas and Louisiana, causing floods, death and misery, it is time to consider the damage the prosperity gospel has done to America. Mr. Trump and Mr. Osteen unwittingly revealed its ugly underbelly: the smugness, the self-aggrandizing posturing. It has co-opted many in the Republican Party, readily visible in their relentless desire to strip Americans of health care, disaster relief and infrastructure funding.
15
"When asked about the delay, Mr. Osteen said that “the city didn’t ask us to become a shelter.”
You know who else the City didn't ask? That furniture store owner who opened up his stores.
You know who else the City didn't ask? That furniture store owner who opened up his stores.
50
I am here in Houston and Osteen has been discredited and exposed. He lives in a $14 million house here and he is a motivational speaker. His lack of humility, lack of compassion and empathy is now fully on display.
41
$14 million???!!! And did he open some bedrooms to displaced congregants?
24
Perhaps he is to you Ms. Gonzalez, but not to his many thousands of church members. It's good though that you're not afraid to cast stones.
1
The continued success of Joel Osteen — in fact, the continued existence of Joel Osteen — is empirical proof that there is no God, the fictional character who allegedly condemned worshipers of gold to death.
28
The Bible talks a lot about false prophets. God doesn't coddle us.
That's because he doesn't exist.
1
The prosperity gospel forgoes Christianity's pretense of carrying for the downtrodden. It promotes greed as a virtue. Contrary to Jesus' numerous supposed sayings, the faith has winked at wealth ever since it found favor with the Roman elite ages ago. But the prosperity gospel drops that age-old pretense. And Americans apparently love it--shown by diminishing numbers of mainline Protestants (e.g. Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians etc.) and increasing numbers of prosperity gospel adherents (think CEO pay or working class Americans' support for tax cuts for the 1%). Osteen & Co. can spin each verse as much as they please, but they still have to "fit a camel through the eye of a needle."
14
“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?'
Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”
― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”
― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
24
Education is anathema to religion. Educate the masses and let the light in.
19
When it comes to republicans, especially those of the fundamentalist, evangelical, prosperity doctrine types, there is one personality trait they all consistently exhibit: they have no qualms about shaming someone else, but never, ever themselves.
23
The Christianity that I learned teaches that it is wrong to take advantage of people just to enrich yourself.
This must be different.
This must be different.
10
Joel Osteen is the usual celebrity preacher - a fake and a fraud. He's only out for himself, and making millions of tax-free dollars.
21
Osteen lives off the vulnerabilities of the poor, disenfranchised, sick, depressed, and hoplesss. And, judging by his fine suits and lavish lifestyle, he does quite well for himself.
15
I couldn't believe Osteen's comments. Shame on him. I hope he will use some of his millions to help others.
9
He will now have to pass the basket around 3 or 4 times
1
Osteen may be "ordained", but he is less a man of G-d than I am.
Trump is, of course, beyond the pale...
Trump is, of course, beyond the pale...
10
Interestingly, he isn't ordained, nor does he hold a divinity degree (or a degree of any kind). He has credit towards a Broadcasting degree from Oral Roberts University.
6
He is not ordained - see my comment above. He inherited the 'church 'when his father, an actual ordained Baptist minister, dropped dead one day. Lakewood is no longer associated with any denomination - so they don't pay dues. Better for the bottom line.
So, technically, he is not a minister or pastor - he is an actor. If there are professional standards for ministers - they don't apply to him.
So, technically, he is not a minister or pastor - he is an actor. If there are professional standards for ministers - they don't apply to him.
5
So why is his false church tax-exempt?
2
What ethical or moral person could maintain a beatific smile through an interview about a disaster--in his hometown, no less--of truly biblical proportions? And that cosmetically smooth face (though his doctor needs to work a bit on that less than perfect neck)? Of course he and Trump are best buds; they have the same values.
11
Excellent article, Mr. Butler. However, you say, "Mr. Trump’s and Mr. Osteen’s brands are rooted in success..." I beg to differ. Their brands are rooted in LIES, LIES, LIES. That and fear-anger-hatred of those who do not look like them.
This article points out, once again, why I am so opposed to organized religion. It's just a cash cow for those who would play on people's ignorance and fear. I once had a friend who I later learned had been a gun runner and owned a construction company in Texas. Those businesses had failed so he moved to Washington state working for a "spiritual" leader. When I met him he was unemployed and looking for the next quick money. He said, "I guess I'll have to become a preacher." I would have shrugged it off but he was a Con Man like The Con Don and Osteen and people would have flocked to him and given him their hard-earned money.
At the end of every broadcast Steve Poole, the first black television-on-air personality in Seattle many years ago, said, "If you want to believe in someone, believe in yourself." He was then and still is a wonderful, warm weatherman and human being and I have never forgotten his advice. Others would be wise to use it instead of believing in con men who steal from them and laugh all the way to the bank.
This article points out, once again, why I am so opposed to organized religion. It's just a cash cow for those who would play on people's ignorance and fear. I once had a friend who I later learned had been a gun runner and owned a construction company in Texas. Those businesses had failed so he moved to Washington state working for a "spiritual" leader. When I met him he was unemployed and looking for the next quick money. He said, "I guess I'll have to become a preacher." I would have shrugged it off but he was a Con Man like The Con Don and Osteen and people would have flocked to him and given him their hard-earned money.
At the end of every broadcast Steve Poole, the first black television-on-air personality in Seattle many years ago, said, "If you want to believe in someone, believe in yourself." He was then and still is a wonderful, warm weatherman and human being and I have never forgotten his advice. Others would be wise to use it instead of believing in con men who steal from them and laugh all the way to the bank.
10
My apologies to the contributor, MS. Anthea Butler. Excellent Column, MS. Butler.
5
Poor Joel! Why did God go and dump a few trillion gallons of water on the faithful for? Joel's got some 'splainin' to do this Sunday. I can't wait to tune in. He doesn't quite pander to mammon at the level of say Creflo Dollar but the message is still the same. God has showered Joel with wealth because He is a loving God who loves those who love Him... a bit of a paradox for those who quietly serve the poor expecting nothing in return.
10
Joel Osteen didn't seen thousands of people in desperate need of help and shelter. He saw thousands of dirty shoes and the great unwashed soiling his beautiful tax-exempt castle. The term unicorn is often used these days to describe a thing or person which is so rare as to be almost mythical. A deeplycaring mega-church pastor who really understands and preaches the true word of god is indeed a unicorn.
15
It's a tax shelter, not a hurricane shelter.
3
Let me get this straight. The God who gave Trump a golden tower and gave Osteen a tax-exempt Temple to Mammon is the same god who fails to give a three-year-old in Houston a drink of clean water? Some God!
20
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." --Matthew 19:24
Joel Osteen and Donald Trump will soon be announcing (watch your Twitter feed) a new business venture: Giant needles with eyes so big their followers can easily ride their camels through without ducking.
Joel Osteen and Donald Trump will soon be announcing (watch your Twitter feed) a new business venture: Giant needles with eyes so big their followers can easily ride their camels through without ducking.
13
Isn't that what compassionate conservatism is all about? Compassion for the well off?
They are party and church of depraved indifference to their fellow human beings.
Witness those government workers heroically saving lives this week! These are the workers GOP leaders want us to hate.
Beware of Republicans Texan politicians carrying bottomless gallon hats with false bottoms and false promises.
They are party and church of depraved indifference to their fellow human beings.
Witness those government workers heroically saving lives this week! These are the workers GOP leaders want us to hate.
Beware of Republicans Texan politicians carrying bottomless gallon hats with false bottoms and false promises.
11
Those government workers signed on for the task and there is absolutely no reason they cannot do their jobs just as well without a union card in their pockets and a gold plated pension waiting for them.
Mark 10:25
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
5
I can't fight the madness in my head. I need to go home to Canada.
11
Honey, don't wait. I lose IQ points for every year I'm here. Fortunately, I could be here for a hundred years and still be above the Local Standard. Just Saying.
6
This "Christian" is a scam artist. And anyone who follows him is brainwashed.
12
Reminder: according to New Testament accounts, Jesus said, "When confronted by evil, turn the other cheek." What? I thought he said, "Shoot 'em with your guns!"
I've stated in jest to Christian friends, "Jesus and his disciples were scared of the Romans and always carried arms--swords and knives." Surprise! Several said, in seriousness, "They did?"
In the same vein, you may be familiar with the terms, "The meek shall inherit the Earth," and, "A rich person has the same chance of going to heaven as has a camel of passing through the eye of a needle."
Ah, behold some Christians' obsessions with wealth and guns!
I've stated in jest to Christian friends, "Jesus and his disciples were scared of the Romans and always carried arms--swords and knives." Surprise! Several said, in seriousness, "They did?"
In the same vein, you may be familiar with the terms, "The meek shall inherit the Earth," and, "A rich person has the same chance of going to heaven as has a camel of passing through the eye of a needle."
Ah, behold some Christians' obsessions with wealth and guns!
5
Actually, some disciples did carry swords.
And during the high charged. oldest world Festival of Freedom, which the Romans loathed ( Passover)--when extra garrisons always brought to Jerusalem as a precaution--Peter supposedly used his sword to lop off the ear of a Roman.
And during the high charged. oldest world Festival of Freedom, which the Romans loathed ( Passover)--when extra garrisons always brought to Jerusalem as a precaution--Peter supposedly used his sword to lop off the ear of a Roman.
2
I can imagine St. Peter's response when Trump and Osteen come pounding on the Pearly Gates. Sad, really sad.
5
I have often wondered what Jesus Christ would think of Osteen's wealth. Being in the 1% because you purportedly promote Christ's beliefs seems, frankly, hypocritical. How does this guy sleep at night?
4
Hypocrites are rarely aware that they are hypocrites. With that in mind, I can assure you that Osteen sleeps just fine.
8
My God, you people are full of hatred. What's this country coming to
3
You are referring to the lack of respect for the tv fundraiser/mega church pastor who lives personally in a $14 million home from his earnings?
14
Speak for yourself Wilfrido. Remember when you point the finger three are pointing back at you.
Talk about hate, remember when the Texas congress people lied about what was in the Hurricane Sandy aid package for New Jersey and New York and voted no on funding the aid.
But they sure are fast to come pleading for money at the least little problem!
There's a saying "turnabout is fair play".
New Jersey and New York remember those Texas votes.
Talk about hate, remember when the Texas congress people lied about what was in the Hurricane Sandy aid package for New Jersey and New York and voted no on funding the aid.
But they sure are fast to come pleading for money at the least little problem!
There's a saying "turnabout is fair play".
New Jersey and New York remember those Texas votes.
9
This storm is far worse than Sandy. Sandy had little effect in Jersey, relatively speaking, off of the shore.
The Republicans and their Evangelical Christian counterparts have become blind guides... like the Pharisees and Sadducees in Jesus' time, their hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.
5
In a formula,
Trump "University" = Osteen's "Church"
Trump "University" = Osteen's "Church"
19
This is a ridiculous comparison. I may not agree with the way Joel Osteen applies his "Biblical scripture", but he is nothing like Tump who doesn't know the difference between a Corinthian and a Hittite.
3
Unfortunately, Joel Osteen is worse than Trump. Perhaps a history lesson on faith leaders who surrendered all worldly goods is in order.
5
What does Corinthians and Hittites have to do with it? We're talking about 2 hucksters and their hypocrisy.
11
Joel Osteen sounds like he might be the pastor for Ted Cruz.
4
Preach it, Rev. Butler! Osteen's theology has no sufffering or cross. It dwells in illusion and wishful thinking. He peddles the heresy that we save ourselves, so there's no need for God, just positive thoughts. His bankrupt soul is revealed in the midst of this tragedy, and shows that this prosperity gospel as the cheap scam that it is. May his followers unfollow him.
22
It's at times like these when you learn who your true friends and neighbors really are...and they're not like JO or current POTUS.
13
yes it certainly is an odd combination of themes, self aggrandizement and obsession with wealth on the one hand, and the Christian core beliefs of humility, charity and focus on the spiritual. That pastor Olsteen is a motivational speaker dressed in a minister's frock.
7
We can all learn from Jim McIngvale (mattress Mack) - a true humanitarian who has put his wealth at risk for his community. Everyone will shop there now and they should.
Joel Osteen has nothing to teach us - he is a taker who should lose his tax exempt status - it is prosperity for him and his boorish wife. The rest of us? Not so much.... Shame on the Osteen's and his stadium sized church.
Joel Osteen has nothing to teach us - he is a taker who should lose his tax exempt status - it is prosperity for him and his boorish wife. The rest of us? Not so much.... Shame on the Osteen's and his stadium sized church.
15
To question Christian values is irrational. The greed of the church, specially the Prosperity church, does not make sense. Osteen must pay for his greed. His cover is blown. However, most of his followers believe in Osteen's philosophy - that is exactly why they follow him. They do not follow Jesus. Their god is money.
10
The evangelicals have become big business for sure. It's too bad they do not possess a soul, much less a heart. 'Flim flam' is working for them with all the gullible. I turned my back on this kind of 'christianity' a very long time ago. I recognized the hypocrites as a small child and am grateful for the lessons.
The Osteens were very prominent here and more self promoting than anything else. When I read they were re-locating to Houston I was happy. Now I just have another reason to pray for Houston.
Trump has proven to me once again what hypocrites these people are. If he is a hero to them and more than acceptable than everything they claim to believe should be questioned.
My Dad used to say the only thing required to be among them is to 'check your brains' at the door. So true. I am sad they give Christianity a bad name with their phony hoo ha while they happily fleece the flock. They may be able to buy their way into heaven but I'm betting it won't help them with judgment day!
The Osteens were very prominent here and more self promoting than anything else. When I read they were re-locating to Houston I was happy. Now I just have another reason to pray for Houston.
Trump has proven to me once again what hypocrites these people are. If he is a hero to them and more than acceptable than everything they claim to believe should be questioned.
My Dad used to say the only thing required to be among them is to 'check your brains' at the door. So true. I am sad they give Christianity a bad name with their phony hoo ha while they happily fleece the flock. They may be able to buy their way into heaven but I'm betting it won't help them with judgment day!
9
I like your Dad. My fundamentalist sister's beliefs baffle me, and I have often suspected she had to sell her brain to become the "Christian" she is. She is also gullible as all heck, sending TV and radio preachers her money and believing conservative Republicans will help improve her life. When she pitched Amway to me years ago, the first time I'd ever heard of the DeVos pyramid scheme, I told her "It seems like you have to be a member of a fundamentalist religion to sell this stuff." Low and behold, here we are.
1
When someone says they'll pray for you, it means they intend to do nothing. Waiting for god to provide or being told that god will provide strips people of their own agency and makes them passive. People like Osteen and Trump have been around forever. They're called snake oil salesmen and charlatans.
11
If what Mr Osteen says he believes in turns out to be true, he may be in for a shock:
'... for I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink; I was a stranger and you did not invite me in; I needed clothes and you did not clothe me; I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
'And they will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
'He will reply, 'Truly I tell you: whatever you failed to do for one of the least of these, you failed to do for me.'
'... for I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink; I was a stranger and you did not invite me in; I needed clothes and you did not clothe me; I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
'And they will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
'He will reply, 'Truly I tell you: whatever you failed to do for one of the least of these, you failed to do for me.'
8
The sight or sound of Osteen would raise my hackles if I had any. What a deplorable individual.
9
Trump couldn't even put together a platitude. It was all he could do to barely sight read one.
5
One more false prophet exposed
9
It amazes me how these so-called "men of God' manage to fleece their 'flock.
Hopefully his true colors Mega rich...um.."Pastor" Osteen displayed last week will wake up his congregation to where they realize he's a hypocrite and in service only to himself, and on Sundays these evangelicals go elsewhere for their religious needs. Starving him at the collection basket/box would serve him well.
Hopefully his true colors Mega rich...um.."Pastor" Osteen displayed last week will wake up his congregation to where they realize he's a hypocrite and in service only to himself, and on Sundays these evangelicals go elsewhere for their religious needs. Starving him at the collection basket/box would serve him well.
3
For years I've been saying that these money hungry hypocrites were destroying any respect for Christianity that may exist. True Christians and decent people of any faith should insist that those who use His name to get rich should be shunned and told to call themselves money lovers, not Christians.
5
Hard to be Christian when you're a Christian.
2
Please don't equate charlatan, Joel Osteen, and other Prosperity Gospel crooks with Christianity. Mainstream Christianity theology has been denouncing PG for a long time.
In Houston, many churches, both Protestant and Catholic, were open for the refugees and were actively helping people. One of the biggest aid groups, Salvation Army, which was heavily exaulted by NYTimes readers in one of the related articles, is Christian.
There are many shades of so called Christians. And many of them won't be recognized by Jesus.
In Houston, many churches, both Protestant and Catholic, were open for the refugees and were actively helping people. One of the biggest aid groups, Salvation Army, which was heavily exaulted by NYTimes readers in one of the related articles, is Christian.
There are many shades of so called Christians. And many of them won't be recognized by Jesus.
3
How comes these clowns always have arenas instead of churches?
9
Lottery tickets for Heaven. Great scam, and tax free. What a country!!!
9
Upon reading this, I keep thinking of the song, "Mercedes Benz", by Janis Joplin (raised in Port Arthur, TX).
"Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all drive Porches, I must make amends . . . ."
"Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all drive Porches, I must make amends . . . ."
3
Oh please...this is another slam piece by a liberal media source, a veiled attempt to align republicans to currently reviled Mr. Osteen. Osteen was doing what the rest of us were doing - chilling at home until we saw the tragedy on social media. It's not unthinkable for the uber-rich to loose touch with the needs of the common person. That's why we shouldn't choose them to represent us. So what were our Democrat leaders' response to Harvey? Silence and a late response like Osteen and our other leaders.
The only difference between republicans and democrats is that republicans reach the height of their wealth before holding office while democrats attain their financial high water mark after they begin their tenure in public office. In either case, the uber-rich have forgotten how to get their hands dirty and lend a hand to their less fortunate neighbor.
The only difference between republicans and democrats is that republicans reach the height of their wealth before holding office while democrats attain their financial high water mark after they begin their tenure in public office. In either case, the uber-rich have forgotten how to get their hands dirty and lend a hand to their less fortunate neighbor.
2
"Osteen was chilling at home until he saw the tragedy on social media"? Really? He is supposed to be a 'man of god'...mankind is supposed to be his business...and he should have been one of the first to offer aid and comfort to his fellow Houstonians...I don't care if you're a liberal or conservative 'man of god'...mankind is your 'business'. In this case, Osteen is a failed 'business man'.
10
How come the "proved" link claiming no flooding on Sunday is actually a video posted Monday?
1
As Seneca said when asked if GOD existed, The poor believe it to be true, the rich think it is false and the leaders find it useful.
11
I agree. The prosperity gospel theory ignores the entirety of the suffering described in the bible, particularly the story of Jesus himself. Another point that I have not heard raised before is that the response to Hurricane Sandy was much better than Hurricane Katrina. I believe that is largely because the public infrastructure in New York and New Jersey is much better. Particularly, the better trained and equipped fire and rescue infrastructure comprised largely of union first responders. Ignoring climate change and building in areas prone to flooding is a self created disaster waiting to happen. The low tax, small government, evangelical conservative comes face to face with reality.
6
There is a difference between being and thinking positive , and Osteen's version of prosperity gospel . One spurs a person to believe in themselves and thru a positive mindset work on improving and bringing about a change in their life , the other is on the cult belief that thru affirmation that is all you have to do , just sit back and let God do all your work and bring you prosperity. His brand of belief is akin to the old chain letter myth , that if you mailed a certain number of letters you would be rewarded , if not you would be beset by bad luck . They are both reprehensible human beings ! Osteen's wealth has been generated thru his brand of snake oil sold to the desperate and those who believe they themselves do not have to do anything but sit back and wait for God to bring them prosperity. His Christianity has certainly been evident during this crisis in a city that has enriched him and his family . I'm sure there will be a special place reserved elsewhere for these two.
9
Methinks the Calvinists would not only been mortified by JO but that they would have been rushing to help those in need.
At least I hope so...
At least I hope so...
While I welcome the message of this article, and agree with most of the comments, I think this question rumbles beneath the surface: What does it say about our country that someone like Trump could rise to the top tier of our capitalistic society and capture its highest political office, and that someone like Osteen could become one of the most popular and financially successful religious leaders in a country that cherishes its religious roots, beliefs and practices?
9
I think, William, it says we are about as dumbed-down as we can possible get.
4
It is simple. Being a Christian when it means "believing in Jesus" is easy. Being a Christian when it means doing what he told you to do is the hardest thing in the world. How many American Christians own guns? How do you turn the other check when you want to stand your ground? Or the parable of Divas. The relatively poor of today's America are richer then a Roman lord of Jesus's time do prima facie none of them are getting into heaven according to Jesus. So what's left to do but be greedy, slothful, & full of wrath and ignore the suffering of your fellow man?
there are lots of what I term "mouth christians"....these are people who attend church regularly, even tithe (if they feel like it), sing in the choir, help with church events etc.....BUT if their faith is called into question and they are asked or expected to do anything that will cost them trouble, time or money ...they are missing in action....i.e., they will not actually take into their homes a person really needing help, they will not welcome a person of another color or religious belief within the sacred walls of their "church"...will not give any money to someone they see as "not really deserving of help" (in their opinion)....I could go on and on about these so called 'christians", but I will not....you all know them as well as I do...I have several friends who think this way and am certain you do as well...."mouth christians"....the churches are full of them...
1
Conservative republicans have set the stage for these Prosperity Gospel theorists over the past 2 decades. Conservatism is a good thing in theory. Don't spend too much on non essentials. Be thoughtful in all you do so that frivolity is kept to a minimum. Spending money you don't have leads to unnecessary expenditures on interest of said monies.
But by loosening our standards on education, on building requirements, on minimum health care of our communities, our neighbors, our people we put our whole nation at risk. We are at risk because our uneducated are at the mercy of of others who practice the prosperity gospel and take advantage of them to heighten their own standing, be it economic, community, or religious.
By reducing our building requirements we are at risk of loosing housing for our people because of natural disaster including flooding that may never be replaced because of the decrease in funding. Natural disasters, whatever the reason (human footprint, climate change, cyclical planetary orientations), are happening more frequently. This exposes our people to more health risks including disease from flooding which if gone untreated in the uncovered population could spread and cause epidemic health issues to the general population. These health issues are not just a direct issue to humans but to the food we eat on and off land going forward.
I have digressed. But first and foremost we all must look out for one another.
But by loosening our standards on education, on building requirements, on minimum health care of our communities, our neighbors, our people we put our whole nation at risk. We are at risk because our uneducated are at the mercy of of others who practice the prosperity gospel and take advantage of them to heighten their own standing, be it economic, community, or religious.
By reducing our building requirements we are at risk of loosing housing for our people because of natural disaster including flooding that may never be replaced because of the decrease in funding. Natural disasters, whatever the reason (human footprint, climate change, cyclical planetary orientations), are happening more frequently. This exposes our people to more health risks including disease from flooding which if gone untreated in the uncovered population could spread and cause epidemic health issues to the general population. These health issues are not just a direct issue to humans but to the food we eat on and off land going forward.
I have digressed. But first and foremost we all must look out for one another.
2
Republicans don't want citizens to be educated for fear they may wise up and vote in their own best interest; namely, democratically
3
Why should you need religion to tell you to behave decently, humanely, fairly? Humans innately know the right thing to do. Education reinforces this. And evangelicals, at any rate, have nothing to with any biblical teachings or virtues. They are disgruntled bigots, first and last,
18
Christianity is way more than just good behavior. To say it's a self-improvement program is like saying the sun is a light bulb.
1
Amen- no pun intended.
5
Is money a sign that God thinks you are better than the poor or is it a sign that more is expected of you? What sort of God would take the first approach and what sort of God would take the second? If you profess to believe in the first sort of God, are you mistaking your personal self interest for God? What do you think taking God's name in vain means?
7
Indeed, wearing the mantle of " holiness" while failing to show loving kindness to "the widow, the orphan and the stranger" is PRECISELY the definition of "taking the Lord's name in vain.
Nothing remotely holy about it.
Nothing remotely holy about it.
4
Osteen and his so called ministry are a joke. What with his multi billion dollar empire, a couple of his / hers Gulfstreams and thousands square feet abode he's none too charitable for himself. I pegged him years ago. All of these televangelists are in it for the money. Pity the sheep who follow them.
17
"...the city didn't ask us to be a shelter..." and that's why Osteen didn't act?
Didn't God tell him it would be a good idea, or at least to act according to his convictions in the wake of a massive disaster?
Really, really shameful behavior, and hypocritical for a so-called "Man of God".
Didn't God tell him it would be a good idea, or at least to act according to his convictions in the wake of a massive disaster?
Really, really shameful behavior, and hypocritical for a so-called "Man of God".
11
I suspect that the prosperity gospel is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Osteen and Trump are its manifestations.
7
I don't want to preach here but Christianity is about love, charity, selflessness and compassion. It should never be about gaining huge wealth. A Pastor should have a salary to live a decent life but not become a multi millionaire or personally profit from religion. The great American preacher A.W Tozer (born a penniless farm boy) wrote bestselling titles and gave nearly all his royalties to good causes. Frances Chan and Marva Dawn are two other bestselling Christian writers who do likewise and I am sure there are many others. Mister Osteen seems to live a life contrary to Biblical teaching not in line with it. Humility and selflessness are they keys. You don't even have to be Christian ( I am) to follow Christ's teaching.Wonderful to read here of all the Churches in Houston who have made efforts to help people out though. Bless them all.
10
My vote goes to Pope Francis.
He has thousands of servants, multiple limos, palaces, private jets at his command.
But he leads the simple life of Jesus, nonetheless.
He has thousands of servants, multiple limos, palaces, private jets at his command.
But he leads the simple life of Jesus, nonetheless.
5
If you are interested in reading about the roots of the "prosperity gospel," read Richard Bushman's "From Puritan to Yankee" and other excellent works on the subject of how being good in the Christian, religious sense became conflated with doing well in the material sense. It was seen as an outward manifestation of God's grace. Also see Russell Conwell's (founder of Temple University) "Acres of Diamonds" sermon, the viral prosperity gospel of its time in the late 19th century, when it was very well-received. Conwell would give this sermon over six thousand times in his lifetime. In it, Conwell states:
"I say that you ought to get rich, and it is your duty to get rich ... The men who get rich may be the most honest men you find in the community. Let me say here clearly ... ninety-eight out of one hundred of the rich men of America are honest. That is why they are rich. That is why they are trusted with money. That is why they carry on great enterprises and find plenty of people to work with them. It is because they are honest men. ... I sympathize with the poor, but the number of poor who are to be sympathized with is very small. To sympathize with a man whom God has punished for his sins ... is to do wrong. ... Let us remember there is not a poor person in the United States who was not made poor by his own shortcomings." We have a long history of conflating goodness with riches in this country.
"I say that you ought to get rich, and it is your duty to get rich ... The men who get rich may be the most honest men you find in the community. Let me say here clearly ... ninety-eight out of one hundred of the rich men of America are honest. That is why they are rich. That is why they are trusted with money. That is why they carry on great enterprises and find plenty of people to work with them. It is because they are honest men. ... I sympathize with the poor, but the number of poor who are to be sympathized with is very small. To sympathize with a man whom God has punished for his sins ... is to do wrong. ... Let us remember there is not a poor person in the United States who was not made poor by his own shortcomings." We have a long history of conflating goodness with riches in this country.
4
It it takes an especially evil person to betray someone's trust.
Trump and Osteen are perfect examples of this type of evil.
Trump and Osteen are perfect examples of this type of evil.
9
It's a breath of fresh air when people like Joel Osteen are exposed for the snake oil salesman they are.
14
I've always seen political Christian evangelism in this country as being more about the punitive and judgmental side of Christianity than about the compassionate side. It caters to a natural human tendency to go in that direction, exploits it and uses it to reach other political ends. Just saw Pence and his wife praying and speaking of the lord in Texas, but my God the lack of compassion and Christian goodness they have followed in their own political lives and in service of this mentally ill, morally defective president.
27
Most politicians are professional actors who generally struggle with compassion.
2
Houston's mosques all opened their doors to provide shelter. They didn't need to be asked.
23
Just wondering... how much money has Donald Trump donated to the Red Cross, or other disaster assistance charity, for Houston and the other affected areas? He's probably given millions in the past week... right? Because, you know, actions and words?
10
One has to ask if the Clinton Foundation has lent a hand as well. Or even the Obama's.
1
@Queens Girl
You might better spend your time looking at why NYS Attorney General, Eric Schneiderman shut down the Trump Foundation for taking charity donations without the proper license.
Google it.
You might better spend your time looking at why NYS Attorney General, Eric Schneiderman shut down the Trump Foundation for taking charity donations without the proper license.
Google it.
5
He created a charity and then used it to pay his bills.
https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2015/08/03/if-trumps-charity-reflects-the...
https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2015/08/03/if-trumps-charity-reflects-the...
4
Professing to be an evangelical Christian makes one no less prone to racism, bigotry or lust of money. Just as I'm not surprise when an ordinary person shows greatness or heroism, I'm equally not surprised when another person fails to seize an opportunity for doing good. I'm sure, we've all been there. The good news is we all can do better.
As an aside, as a lawyer, I've always marveled enviously at his oratory skills.
As an aside, as a lawyer, I've always marveled enviously at his oratory skills.
1
It's too bad he doesn't use them to promote Christ's teachings of compassion, love, and simplicity
Christianity and other religions provide a belief system that is used to righteously justify immoral behavior. As Lucretius said, "To such depths of evil has religion been able to drive men" (De rerum natura)
It is ironic that evangelicals wear their religion on their sleeve as if it is a badge of high moral character, when I see it as evidence of questionable morality.
It is ironic that evangelicals wear their religion on their sleeve as if it is a badge of high moral character, when I see it as evidence of questionable morality.
8
Evidently, this gospel of prosperity does not also preach charity.
7
Evangelical Christians are easy prey for hucksters like Trump and Osteen. They both preach their own versions of the prosperity gospel, which amounts to "pay me money, and God (or somebody) will pay you back tenfold." Osteen got rich using the more traditional "pay God" route, while Trump simply resorted to straight out fraud in many of his scams, including, most notably, Trump University. In the past, hucksters would often wind up going bankrupt, leaving town just a step ahead of irate citizens brandishing torches and pitchforks. Unfortunately, the 21st century version of the Flim-Flam Man is protected by an army of lawyers, and their client is rarely caught.
6
It's not at all true that Trump showed no sympathy to people suffering from Hurricane Harvey. He has been filled with compassion -- for himself. Every time we have seen him since the hurricane and its aftermath, he has been visibly distraught that the death and destruction wrought by the hurricane has drawn the public's attention away from Donald J Trump.
5
I'm struck how many people here who are critical of Osteen apparently have never heard a single one of his sermons, nor read any of his books.
I've been following him and his explosive growth for years. Osteen repeatedly says that "God causes the rain to fall on the good and the evil" and that bad things are going to happen to you. But his messages focus on how you DEAL with the bad things that happen, you stay true to God, you try not to blame him for your troubles, and you trust that he is still on your throne.
Most of what I've read here about him is alien to me, and I've been a faithful listener/watcher for many many years.
A pity really, to judge a man you don't know.
WR
I've been following him and his explosive growth for years. Osteen repeatedly says that "God causes the rain to fall on the good and the evil" and that bad things are going to happen to you. But his messages focus on how you DEAL with the bad things that happen, you stay true to God, you try not to blame him for your troubles, and you trust that he is still on your throne.
Most of what I've read here about him is alien to me, and I've been a faithful listener/watcher for many many years.
A pity really, to judge a man you don't know.
WR
2
He showed us his true self, that's all we needed. I am glad to be unburdened of his propaganda, be it "sermons" or books. I feel sorry for you.
Perhaps all Texans who proposed secession and all Texans who opposed Hurricane Sandy aid for will forgo any request for aid for themselves. We could then focus more funds to the vast majority of Texans who are patriotic Americans and wouldn't withhold funds towards others.
As far as Trump, Osteen, and Cruz? Not a charitable bone in their bodies.
As far as Trump, Osteen, and Cruz? Not a charitable bone in their bodies.
6
I know these types of people. I was the client of a broker of comfortable means who'd made a fair bit of money from me thru managing my home purchase and re-fi transactions over the years. When I was in treatment for cancer and my self-employment enterprise collapsed, his only response to news of my crowdfunding campaign was, "I'll pray for you".
9
President Tripe is of a feather with Osteen, you are correct to point out.
His appeal is to people who believe they have made it in the world of their own accord, with no significant help, and if they've failed, it's their own fault.
Those suffering folks in Houston deserve to be trapped because they never made enough money to have their own planes to evacuate them to their second or third homes elsewhere.
Besides, Houston, Dallas and Austin all voted for Hilliary--why should they expect President Trip to help them?
His appeal is to people who believe they have made it in the world of their own accord, with no significant help, and if they've failed, it's their own fault.
Those suffering folks in Houston deserve to be trapped because they never made enough money to have their own planes to evacuate them to their second or third homes elsewhere.
Besides, Houston, Dallas and Austin all voted for Hilliary--why should they expect President Trip to help them?
1
As an evangelical Christian, it is painful to watch Joel Osteen and Donald Trump act as if they are Christians. It is the love of money that is the root of all evil, (1 Timothy 6:10) and these two have a love affair with it. It is no wonder that so many people are leaving the Christian church or choosing not to follow Jesus. With Osteen and Trump masquerading as Christians, who would want to be one?
7
I think the author is really stretching when he compares the "prosperity gospel" pitch of charlatans like Osteen with Pres. Bush's saying that "government cannot solve every problem". The former is often just a way for unscrupulous pastors to get money from believers while the latter is a call to return to helping our neighbours, as we should.
The former promises rewards if we send money. The latter will result in a socially active church that does as Gospels would have us do - love our neighbours as ourselves.
The former promises rewards if we send money. The latter will result in a socially active church that does as Gospels would have us do - love our neighbours as ourselves.
All the tut-tutting here over the greed merchants of the Christian and Republican faithful can't hide the fact that we progressives and the Democratic Party leadership have been utter failures in promoting and capitalizing on our ideology of socially conscious, peace-promoting, people-helping policies. We have let these phony prophets on the Right define us, denigrate even our most effective political leaders, and have passively given sleezeballs like Osteen and Trump plenty of opportunities to get away with the lies they hurl into the media maelstrom every minute of every day. If, as so many of here recognize, we are on the right side of our modern political/moral equation, why do we hear nary a peep of protest or counterattack from our side directed at these holier-than-though money-grubbers? Just asking.
5
The "gospel of wealth" is rooted in the Calvinist notion of the "Elect", those chosen by God to be favored and "saved". The signs of this favor are not compassion, works of charity and mercy, even religious fervor or scholarship. Rather, it is wealth, and that acceptance of that "sign" is a deeply ingrained in Evangelical Christianity and the American consciousness (or sub-conscious). It has allowed charlatans like Osteen to grow rich and Trump to bamboozle voters.
3
It is appalling that the Alabama Representative claims that "people who lead good lives" don't have to deal with pre-existing health conditions. I hope he gets the boot in his next election.
Likewise, what in the world is the matter with Ben Carson, that he said in March that poverty was a “state of mind"?
As for the mega church, money hungry pastor: doesn't his religion say something about the needy stranger who is given shelter, and providing for those who need food and clothing?
Didn't the pastor just fail one of the biggest tests about the worth of his pastoral abilities?
He certainly will never be able to claim now he is a " good Samaritan" .
He had to be shamed into doing what he promptly should have leapt to do.
Disgusting.
Likewise, what in the world is the matter with Ben Carson, that he said in March that poverty was a “state of mind"?
As for the mega church, money hungry pastor: doesn't his religion say something about the needy stranger who is given shelter, and providing for those who need food and clothing?
Didn't the pastor just fail one of the biggest tests about the worth of his pastoral abilities?
He certainly will never be able to claim now he is a " good Samaritan" .
He had to be shamed into doing what he promptly should have leapt to do.
Disgusting.
4
The prosperity gospel originated with the Puritans and has continued to work its way through American society until the present day. If you prayed and sat in church for hours on end, God would reward you (even if you were encouraged to believe in predestination). If you were "bad," for example, if you spoke out against those in power, God would punish you, but mostly by enabling said powerful people to banish you or accuse you of witchcraft. Thankfully, the latter part of the proposition has (largely) disappeared, though jail, I suppose, could stand in for banishment.
All churches should pay taxes.
8
The IRS doesn't pay close enough attention to various charities that accumulate wealth and pay their leaders exorbitant salaries, not just churches.
2
M.Z.
I don't know about that, but I think the comment to you from Michael is interesting and thought provoking.
But Trump taxing his base???!!
I don't know about that, but I think the comment to you from Michael is interesting and thought provoking.
But Trump taxing his base???!!
1
And the Self-righteous shall inherit the land.
Im not sure about Joel Osteen but whoever speaks about mankind and our togetherness I'm with them always. Regardless of where I'm located we as a team believe in peace and humanity and will always do. Living and growing together is what society is all about. Regards Team https://goo.gl/hZVTiU
Though an expat, I'm a Houstonian, born and raised minutes from Lakewood Church. This article is correct in its criticisms of Osteen as well as its comparison of him to Trump.
For one, the building currently housing Lakewood Church used to be known as "The Summit" because of how high up the ground there is. It's where the Rockets used to play basketball. My parents live within minutes still and were sending me pictures of their neighborhood as the storm progressed. Any suggestion that it would have been disproportionately threatened by floodwaters is ludicrous, and a tweeted picture of a flooded basement room (just like badly-angled pictures of "record campaign rally crowds") isn't fooling most of us.
Next, you need only look at the camera angle that Osteen chose for his interview with CNN to know that he's all about image. He picked a place where tons of supplies were set up behind him, and (like Trump) he definitely found time to make his hair perfect before going on camera.
Finally, both's obsession with wealth, fame and "winning" show why their responses were so poor, and neither of them should have surprised anyone. If I asked you which of the two wrote "You Can, You Will: 8 Undeniable Qualities of a Winner," would you think that would have been under the Trump brand or Osteen brand? (Spoiler: it's the latter). They tweet about good luck and "God's got this" instead of being proactive because inaction and shirking responsibility is who they are at their cores.
For one, the building currently housing Lakewood Church used to be known as "The Summit" because of how high up the ground there is. It's where the Rockets used to play basketball. My parents live within minutes still and were sending me pictures of their neighborhood as the storm progressed. Any suggestion that it would have been disproportionately threatened by floodwaters is ludicrous, and a tweeted picture of a flooded basement room (just like badly-angled pictures of "record campaign rally crowds") isn't fooling most of us.
Next, you need only look at the camera angle that Osteen chose for his interview with CNN to know that he's all about image. He picked a place where tons of supplies were set up behind him, and (like Trump) he definitely found time to make his hair perfect before going on camera.
Finally, both's obsession with wealth, fame and "winning" show why their responses were so poor, and neither of them should have surprised anyone. If I asked you which of the two wrote "You Can, You Will: 8 Undeniable Qualities of a Winner," would you think that would have been under the Trump brand or Osteen brand? (Spoiler: it's the latter). They tweet about good luck and "God's got this" instead of being proactive because inaction and shirking responsibility is who they are at their cores.
24
Trump, Osteen and Arpaio. Which is the father, which is the son, and which is the holy ghost?
3
He is a craven huckster and a mirror image of Trump. To use religion as a "cover" for his marketing agenda seems to have become the new normal.
So many people are desperate and frightened by the horror of the flood.
How could he ( a man of god ) deny them a dry place to shelter.
So many people are desperate and frightened by the horror of the flood.
How could he ( a man of god ) deny them a dry place to shelter.
1
As a former Pastor and theological student, I have never considered the prosperity gospel real Christianity. It's a pagan worship of wealth (the golden calf) dressed in Christian garb. It teaches a form of selfishness and greed that runs counter to all that Jesus taught. The real national religion of this nation is greed. The commandment that drives our life is 'greed is good'. The gospel is preached. In our real national religion we look at the rich as the righteous and the poor as the unrighteous. Las Vegas is our real Mecca not Jerusalem or Utah. However, if you look hard enough you'll find that real Son of God isn't sitting in Trump Tower but is in some detention camp run by ICE. Thus as our evangelical Christian Pastors sit in their mega-churches, primping and preening before the TV screen or send messages to the President that God authorizes nuclear war, the real Christlike spirit is found in people who open their door and hearts to others and says, "Come unto me me all you who are burdened and heavy laden." Those Christians are out there just don't look for them on CBN or in the sanctuary of Joel Osteen.
23
Apologies if this is redundant, but I keep wondering why Messers Osteen, Trump, and their pals don't react to the devastation in Texas and Louisiana with direct grants, financial aid for those without basic essentials like housing and clothing, medicine and food, and schools and transportation, and funding to restore the wreckage. Why not turn the Trump golf courses and grandiose overpriced hotels into new towns and apartments for those wiped out by Harvy? Why didn't Trump address the survivors electronically from the White House instead of making a costly vanity personal appearance requiring costly special security? This catastrophe has enlarged the discrepancy between the wealthy in the Trump camp and the religiosity of Osteen and his followers.
8
I hope no one in Texas or the world really believes that a wealthy evangelical christian has any intention of behaving like Jesus.
4
Who is this man? and why do people give him money? It's hard to understand when there are far more pressing and worthy things to do with it.
5
Whe hear about collusion? How about big govt tax subsidies to religious fundamentalists who then collude with pious hypocritical politicians to manipulate public opinion, and win office? A big feature of American politics.
The big money comes from corporations who finance our elections and drive lawmaking in their favor. The upshot is that churches and politicians are dependent on corporate welfare and special tax breaks.
And they talk about ‘character and morality’, while politicians cut funds for public services and insult the public that deserves these services.
The big money comes from corporations who finance our elections and drive lawmaking in their favor. The upshot is that churches and politicians are dependent on corporate welfare and special tax breaks.
And they talk about ‘character and morality’, while politicians cut funds for public services and insult the public that deserves these services.
4
Jesus is crying for the American Christians.
Full of self-righteousness.
But lack of compassion.
Full of self-righteousness.
But lack of compassion.
3
"I believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God. I take him as my savior." Those are the words I said before God and my church before I was baptized. I did not say that I would honor all the interpretations of the Bible that men/women so willingly alter to suit themselves and their own beliefs. If there is a church that is not a social club and believes in what the Bible says, I will gladly go back. The church is segregated by whites churches and the "all other" category. The majority are a bunch of bigots and hypocrites who are looking for attention. I will not be a part of it.
2
According to the legend, Jesus advised his followers to do all their praying privately, lest the object of their prayers consider them insincere.
Trump and Osteen - rich in money, but morally bankrupt.
Oh, and neither one has ever read the Bible.
Oh, and neither one has ever read the Bible.
3
The prosperity gospel says that if you have faith in Jesus, he will make you prosperous. The converse of the prosperity gospel is that if you are poor and sick, it's because Jesus does not love you. The prosperity gospel makes it easy for so-called Christians to ignore the less fortunate. After all, if Jesus does not love you, why should I?
6
As well as enjoying a religious tax exempt status no doubt.
3
Remember when 179 Republican Congressmen voted against relief for the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy? Remember when 36 Republican Senators including Mitch McConnell voted against relief for the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy? Their alibi is that it was "full of pork.”
Don’t buy it. They are telling villainous fibs to you. According to a detailed analysis done in 2013 by the Congressional Research Service, virtually every cent of the Sandy relief bill was related to damage from that storm.
This is not to say that we should abandon Hurricane Harvey victims and cities because of their State Republican ties. . . . It’s to say we should remember what a bunch of hypocrites the Republican Party has become — no Barry Goldwaters in that crowd.
Don’t buy it. They are telling villainous fibs to you. According to a detailed analysis done in 2013 by the Congressional Research Service, virtually every cent of the Sandy relief bill was related to damage from that storm.
This is not to say that we should abandon Hurricane Harvey victims and cities because of their State Republican ties. . . . It’s to say we should remember what a bunch of hypocrites the Republican Party has become — no Barry Goldwaters in that crowd.
9
For the worship of money is the root of all evils.
Timothy 6:10
Timothy 6:10
2
Much evil is avoided by not idolizing anything.
1
Steve, that is a perfectionist goal!
„America first!“ – maybe the most iconic words of President Trump during his presidential reign until today. They spread out in the world and he substantiated this phrase with the invitation of building a wall along the border to Mexico or his economic protectionism. Now after the hurricane “Harvey” hit Houston there is a massive chaos and many evacuees with nothing more than what they got on their backs. This could have been the time when Trump shows his effort for the American people instead of just protecting them against so called threats. Instead he releases tweets without empathy and shows just once more what really matters for him: money. He believes in the prosperity Gospel. Everybody gets what he deserves. On the one hand it explains his lack of compassion, on the other hand it distracts from the real causes of the dramatic consequences. This way of thinking is interspersed in the republican part of the government. The consequences are mentioned in the article. Apart from that it is just disgusting seeing an influential mega-church nowadays offering no help to those who needed it – until Osteen was humiliated on social media. Maybe they should stop pretending that everything what they do is legislated by the Holy Scripture; it is not! This is what monarchs did during the absolutism in Europe. Everybody knows what happened to them.
9
On Sunday night Jim McIngvale – known as Mattress Mack – welcomed hundreds of people looking for refuge from Hurricane Harvey into his Gallery Furniture Stores. He also sent out trucks into the flood looking for those in need of safe passage. He's also providing breakfast, lunch and dinner to the evacuees. McIngvale is also paying for portable showers so evacuees can have their first hot shower in days. Mack estimates it costs $30,000 to $40,000 to keep his stores up and running through the crisis. Each Christmas his business has provided homes full of furniture for families in need. He also donates his furniture to make over teachers lounges in area schools. Even providing refuge isn't new to Mack. In 2005, he housed 200 of the Hurricane Katrina evacuees in his store. That is what Christianity SHOULD look like.
61
I have very mixed feelings about this situation with Joel Osteen. I listen to him and have supported him. His messages have helped me during difficult times. I am very disappointed in how he and Lakewood handled this crisis, but I don't see this as evidence that they don't care about the people of Houston. I see this as a huge mistake, which should not overshadow the good work the church has done in the community. Additionally, I don't see how a picture taken on Monday, 8/28 proves conclusively that there was no flooding at the church on Sunday, 8/27. I know many people have issues with him and his message. I have a personal relationship with God and hold values that are not determined by the actions, inactions or wealth of Joel Osteen.
2
But wait! I just heard that several truck loads of thoughts and prayers had already arrived in TX and dozens more were on the way. So there's that.
11
Joel Osteen's disaster relief plan:
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:14
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:14
1
There’re people who live right and suffer, and there’re people who live wrong and prosper. No one has figured that one out in thousands of years, though many have offered advice, comfort, and promises of a future reconciliation of this discrepancy (with the command against covetousness implying that economic equality is not in the cards for this life). When thinking about the good society, bearing in mind that by definition, most of us are average, we have to think about what the status of average should mean. If you know that you will never be among a society’s elite, what would you want your society to look like?
6
Ed,
" They're people who live right and suffer, and there are people who live wrong and prosper. No one has figured that one out in thousands of years..."
You are right but that's what I believe Karma is for...
" They're people who live right and suffer, and there are people who live wrong and prosper. No one has figured that one out in thousands of years..."
You are right but that's what I believe Karma is for...
1
Pastor Osteen and his "prosperity gospel" is the gift that keeps on giving for the entrenched agnostic/atheist commentariat here. He fits all the negative stereotypes, for the anti-theists to hoist, in their smug guise of intellectual superiority. An attachment to material success. Personal wealth. No selfless suffering servant, but an "A" personality type with a fine credit rating.
But here is the uncomfortable truth for the militant atheist. Most Christians do not worship in such places nor believe things, such as the so-called "prosperity gospel" considered at best heterodox and at worst, heretical. We can and do read the lessons of both the Hebrew Bible and the gospels. We see that life for all too many is "this vale of tears". We are called to be our brother (and sister's) keeper and to give the cloak off our back. We are very far away in both belief and practice from these Bible Belt "megachurches".
But here is the uncomfortable truth for the militant atheist. Most Christians do not worship in such places nor believe things, such as the so-called "prosperity gospel" considered at best heterodox and at worst, heretical. We can and do read the lessons of both the Hebrew Bible and the gospels. We see that life for all too many is "this vale of tears". We are called to be our brother (and sister's) keeper and to give the cloak off our back. We are very far away in both belief and practice from these Bible Belt "megachurches".
5
In my "smug guise of intellectual superiority" I would suggest there is also a "smug guise of spiritual superiority".
2
All good and well but you still believe in that great celestial dictator in the sky.
"If the concept of a father who plots to have his own son put to death is presented to children as beautiful and worthy of societies' admiration, what types of human behavior can be presented to them as reprehensible?" Ruth Hurmence Green
"If the concept of a father who plots to have his own son put to death is presented to children as beautiful and worthy of societies' admiration, what types of human behavior can be presented to them as reprehensible?" Ruth Hurmence Green
3
yes, thank you, but we do understand that...
Your definition of the prosperity doctrine misses the mark by a wide margin. While the prosperity doctrine is antithetical to everything Christ does and says in the bible, it isn't about 'thinking positively and affirmations'...donations to religious organizations would be closer to the mark.
6
Lining the pockets of mega-church preachers with those donations would be even closer to the mark.
2
Agreed!
After reading up on the religious right, I came to understand that the prosperity gospel was not in fact a gospel at all, more like an ideology drawing on selected parts of scripture to support a narrative shared by big time oligarchs and right wing pastors, who brought it to fruition in the 19th century, not when the original texts were written down or even distributed widely thanks to the invention of the printing press.
Personally, having been subjected to Trump's vulgar antics for decades as an inhabitant of the metropolitan area for most of my life, I find the description of him as religious or favoring a particular sect preposterous. Rather evangelicals appear to favor him, because they know they have sway as a chunk of his diminishing electorate.
As for Joel Osteen, I'd say if he bring comfort to his flock, so be it, but as this piece points out, it's pretty hard to wrap one's head around selfishness, privatization and miserliness belonging anywhere in the definition of Christianity according the original scriptures. They always say hard times or crisis brings out the best and worst in people. Just as we are seeing the best with the first responders and ordinary citizens in Texas, we are also seeing those who would stand down, minimize or substitute platitudes for the hard work of confronting pain and suffering.
Trump's lack of empathy is downright scary; I'll leave those who believe in Osteen's preaching to decide whether he deserves continuing support.
Personally, having been subjected to Trump's vulgar antics for decades as an inhabitant of the metropolitan area for most of my life, I find the description of him as religious or favoring a particular sect preposterous. Rather evangelicals appear to favor him, because they know they have sway as a chunk of his diminishing electorate.
As for Joel Osteen, I'd say if he bring comfort to his flock, so be it, but as this piece points out, it's pretty hard to wrap one's head around selfishness, privatization and miserliness belonging anywhere in the definition of Christianity according the original scriptures. They always say hard times or crisis brings out the best and worst in people. Just as we are seeing the best with the first responders and ordinary citizens in Texas, we are also seeing those who would stand down, minimize or substitute platitudes for the hard work of confronting pain and suffering.
Trump's lack of empathy is downright scary; I'll leave those who believe in Osteen's preaching to decide whether he deserves continuing support.
8
Or, maybe the bible is just a book written by people trying to understand the world around them, and not a book that should serve as a reference point for values. In my opinion, it has survived because people have used it very successfully to make money and wield power.
15
Osteen has always embodied all the reasons I am happily religion-free.
20
I don't pretend to understand Osteen and the whole Shelter thing, but I'll tell you this: No way would I open up ANY building to 10,000 displaced people without security in place or enough staff who could GET there with food, water, and medical supplies. No way until I was 100% sure I would have ALL those things. Why?
See "The Superdome" Aug 29-Sept 4, 2005.
See "The Superdome" Aug 29-Sept 4, 2005.
9
And if you were a super wealthy person with vacant 16,000 seat building in central Houston, as Pastor Osteen is, you might think to start organizing some of that BEFORE people shame you into it 4 days after a catastrophic storm strikes your city...
22
So just leave them to fend for themselves until conditions improve? Hopefully lessons were learned from Katrina, and the Superdome won't happen again, but it appears Osteen felt ready once the shaming began.
Don't compare the two buildings and situations. As much as Osteen might be tempted to lock his so many people inside his megachurch and hold them captive, I think enough people remember the situation in the Superdome all too well.
1
Joel Osteen has demonstrated once again, that there is no necessary connection between morality and religion.
19
Brings to mind a great Lenny Bruce quote: "Never trust a preacher who owns more than two suits."
27
Excellent! One of the best Times editorials ever written. Bravo! The Prosperity Gospel purveyors and Trump supporting Evangelicals could not be more at odds with what Christianity, the real Christianity, is all about. Sad.
21
Prosperity gospel sounds alot like social Darwinism.
What does it say about rich guys like Trump that inherited their wealth and didn't earn their money themself?
What does it say about rich guys like Trump that inherited their wealth and didn't earn their money themself?
9
What's wrong with inherited wealth?
4
I don't know what the so-called prosperity gospel says but the biblical, New Testament gospel has the Christian prophet saying get rid of all that you have and come and follow me. An odd concept for anyone who is a one per center.
2
Ask Warren Buffett.
2
You don't wait to be asked, you just do! Think of the "Cajun navy" who jumped into action to save folks from flooded communities. They self-organized to help those in need.
12
Joel Osteen's church is a prime example of why religions -- be they Christian or worshippers of wealth -- should not be tax exempt.
17
May both Trump and Osteen rot . . . If our country needs help, it counts on many to offer it. Asking only God's help is a stretch when a Harvey sized storm hits.
5
The Presidency. The Christian Church. Two immoral, selfish, greedy, self-centered, destructive, sociopaths in charge of two great American institutions. And look what they are doing to these institutions. What Americans are only now beginning to realize, to their utter horror, is that these types of men (and they are almost always white men) now control every major institution, just like Trump and Osteen. Corporations. I give you Martin Shkreli, Roger Ailes, and hundreds, perhaps thousands of other version of Gordon Gecko. The Supreme Court? Neil Gorsuch (replacing another - Antone Scalia). Education? I give you Ken Star and the Baylor rape scandals. Or Penn State and Jerry Sandusky. Every major institution we once relied on has been broken, corrupted, coopted, crushed, demoralized, defunded, raped, pillaged, bought out, robbed, and cut to the bone, all in the name of the great pig god they worship - fast, easy money and profit.
Trump and Osteen are not outliers. They are the pure embodiment of modern American evil and greed. And they are in charge.
Trump and Osteen are not outliers. They are the pure embodiment of modern American evil and greed. And they are in charge.
14
Nitpick much? I won't say I disagree with your premise but in each example you gave, I could give an example of something good.
Scribes (i.e., cynical scholars of the Torah), Pharisees, hypocrites, theocratic parasites--Jesus denounced them all, and not just once, but over and over again. He saw such types as murderers of the Spirit, as oppressors of the souls of women and men because they served not God but Mammon. Where there might have been Light, they reigned over darkness.
It was their desire for the blood of an inconvenient prophet, and not a general Jewish conspiracy, that succeeded in killing Christ.
Such people were never confined to Judaism, nor are they confined to Christianity today. Wherever God has a cathedral, such people have a chapel.
America has been plagued by these distasteful screechers from the beginning. John Winthrop, the governor of the early Massachusetts Bay Colony, who preached the 'City on a Hill' sermon that Ronald Reagan found so key to his own gospel of wealth, abused his power to become, by the standards of the time, overwhelmingly rich.
Obviously, as Anthea Butler points out, such dim souls as Osteen and Trump honor Christianity more in the breach than in the observance. It is not Muslims but such US-born traitors to decent values whom the rest of us would be better off without.
It was their desire for the blood of an inconvenient prophet, and not a general Jewish conspiracy, that succeeded in killing Christ.
Such people were never confined to Judaism, nor are they confined to Christianity today. Wherever God has a cathedral, such people have a chapel.
America has been plagued by these distasteful screechers from the beginning. John Winthrop, the governor of the early Massachusetts Bay Colony, who preached the 'City on a Hill' sermon that Ronald Reagan found so key to his own gospel of wealth, abused his power to become, by the standards of the time, overwhelmingly rich.
Obviously, as Anthea Butler points out, such dim souls as Osteen and Trump honor Christianity more in the breach than in the observance. It is not Muslims but such US-born traitors to decent values whom the rest of us would be better off without.
12
Well said. Impressive knowledge of history! Too bad more of the American public doesn't have that. They listen to Fox News and think they know everything about a situation.
1
Osteen, Trump and many of their followers are insecure souls who lack self-worthiness. They are attempting to fill their emptiness with material possessions and hopeful, yet deceitful promises. Most of it is a reflection of our ill society. Insulting and mocking them serves no purpose. They are already miserable.
2
Trump, Cruz and Osteen are shameless, greedy people who use their talent, energy and the people around them for one goal and one goal only. The enrichment of themselves. It doesn't matter if it is money, political gain, relationships or business deals. Their is no room for anyone else in their lives who they cannot get something from. The first question they ask themselves, no matter the situation, is "How am I going to get something from this person or situation". They prove it everyday in their actions and words. "Whats in it for me" is their meditative prayer. Fame and fortune are their God's and they prey, pun intended, everyday for the gifts of others to be bestowed on them by any means necessary. In the end, the suffering of others due to their actions are not something to be forgiven. In their minds, it is the natural consequence to the suckers who were dumb enough to cross their paths. Their souls sing with joy as they walk to the bank. This time Cruz has his hand out. We will ignore that it is his because it is the right thing to do for the people of Texas. He will learn nothing and look for the next opportunity to get a headline at the cost of others when the dust settles. Trump will leave the office and look for the next shill. Osteen will be on TV Sunday and ask for donations for Texans , without fail along with his sales pitch. He will find a way to take a bit off the top for himself on any donations for the flood victims and will sleep like a baby.
10
Christians do not use the constitution to demand that atheists and agnostics go to church nor believe in God, Jesus, the 10 commandments nor the Holy Bible....that is their choice. However, atheists and agnostics use and abuse the constitution in their demand that Christian families and their children accept indecent and immoral laws. Is this what separation of church and state is all about?? Two hundred and forty years of constitutional freedom, however take God out of the equation and the remainder is zero. In terms of man’s behavior, the more things seem to change......the more they remain the same.
2
Mr. LaMancha - People certainly view things from different perspectives, don't they? For instance, in my view, it is Christians who use the Bible or their particular religious dogma, to demand in the form of laws, that the rest of us, atheists, agnostics, and nonreligious, accept their "indecent and immoral laws". The U.S. is a secular nation and founded on those principles, and our Constitution guarantees freedom for those religious people to worship as they choose.
So, bottom line: Christians can and should go to church, read and interpret their Bible as they see fit, and stay out of politics and trying to run the lives of those of us who don't believe in religion.
So, bottom line: Christians can and should go to church, read and interpret their Bible as they see fit, and stay out of politics and trying to run the lives of those of us who don't believe in religion.
3
The correct contrast is that Christians don't demand that atheists go to church; atheists don't demand that Christians stay home.
That has nothing to do with demanding to be exempt from the law of the land because you have decided it's "indecent and immoral."
That has nothing to do with demanding to be exempt from the law of the land because you have decided it's "indecent and immoral."
1
"However, atheists and agnostics use and abuse the constitution in their demand that Christian families and their children accept indecent and immoral laws."
As an atheist, I must ask what laws are these of which you speak?
As an atheist, I must ask what laws are these of which you speak?
1
"Prosperity Gospel"...isn't this an oxymoron?
9
Yes, Yes, Yes. This was a great Op-Ed and I've been saying this for years. These sorts of people and their so-called 'Evangelical Churches" are Evil Cult's with little to no connections to the Teachings of Jesus (or God) for that matter. They Brainwash their children from the day they are born. They Brainwash anyone and everyone who join and they tell them that anyone who doesn't share these beliefs are "Devils" and Evil". Behind closed doors of course. Mr. Osteen's "Tax Exempt" status should be taken away. He doesn't want to help but was forced to help. Any organization that calls itself a Church and doesn't help should have those tax breaks taken away. I hope the American people wake up after this and see how this arrogance that is so prevalent with Evangelical's is dangerous, Anti-American and Anti-Human. They are Cheap indeed, so cheap that they can't afford a soul that's essentially FREE.
9
The USA was founded on those principles
Think of how Joel Osteen responded to this and then compare with what Jim "Mattress Mack" McIngvale did.
There is NO COMPARISON.
Osteen was not going to open his 17,000 seat business to non-paying customers.
Then the PR became so bad, he had to.
And now, the spin and excuses.
There is NO COMPARISON.
Osteen was not going to open his 17,000 seat business to non-paying customers.
Then the PR became so bad, he had to.
And now, the spin and excuses.
12
Cults (aka, religion) poisons everything.
7
Pharisees instead of Christians?
1
Both Mr. Osteen and Mr. Trump are both narcissists preying on the needy. I hope they both get justice.
8
Yet people flock to Osteen's "mega-church" and to Trump for empathy.
Go figure.
Go figure.
8
People are free to do so
Trump and Osteen are con men who betray the trust that people give them.
Their philosophy seems to be "if God didn't want them shorn, he wouldn't have made them sheep".
Their philosophy seems to be "if God didn't want them shorn, he wouldn't have made them sheep".
12
Has Joel ever read John Chapter 10?
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd sacrifices his life for the sheep. A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf (or hurricane) coming. He will abandon the sheep because they don’t belong to him and he isn’t their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock. The hired hand runs away because he’s working only for the money and doesn’t really care about the sheep.
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd sacrifices his life for the sheep. A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf (or hurricane) coming. He will abandon the sheep because they don’t belong to him and he isn’t their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock. The hired hand runs away because he’s working only for the money and doesn’t really care about the sheep.
6
Yes.
And Trump and Osteeen are wolves.
And Trump and Osteeen are wolves.
1
And your point is?
In the book of Jude (in the New Testament) we find a good description of so-called pastors like this (they have always been with us): "These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever."
5
why are we still amazed that people will follow leaders like Osteen or Trump or the KKK Grand Wizard or the neo-Nazis or even the old Nazis? For every bad idea, there are gullible people.
I only wish we had a vengeful god to strike down hypocrisy and blasphemy.
I only wish we had a vengeful god to strike down hypocrisy and blasphemy.
5
Be careful what you wish for because you wish may well come true.
1
I liked the movie better. At least Elmer Gantry was a human being, compared with Trump and Osteen.
9
All religion is a fraud, as it makes claims about reality based on mythology, not observation and reason. Mr. Osteen's particular flavor of con, however, is worth examining as you rightly link it to Donald Trump. The real flaw in the teaching is the idea of self-reliance. This teaching inherently breaks down the social framework of society. Humans are not, by nature, self reliant. We live and work in communities. This is why human ethics are about empathy and community and shared prosperity. We are in this together, and this knowledge and the tools to work together are hard-wired into (most of our) genes. Mr. Osteen is attacking fundamental human ethics, to the great peril of the species.
9
You're in the wrong country buddy. The USA was founded on self reliance. Perhaps China would do for you.
It's as clear as day to me that the only riches from association with Joel Osteen go to Osteen himself, much like American's profits go to the 1%. Why is it so hard to see? Are these all the same people buying lottery tickets? Such a scam.
8
Thank you, Anthea Butler, for helping me understand for the first time the why of Trump's TOTAL lack of empathy and caring for the "other". Those of us who don't worship at his feet are not worthy of concern or caring and he is incapable of giving it. And so it is. Sad so sad.
4
What has he done to you?
Well said. I couldn't agree more.
3
Osteen and Trump are two con artists, grifters. Of course they have no empathy or compassion for their marks. Hopefully, if the scriptures both of these charlatans pretend to believe in (sure) they will find a hot seat in the afterlife. That would be rich.
3
Another 2 bit "good Christian" fraud. Raking in the buck from his flock while turning his back on those in need. Shame on you "pastor" Osteen
8
The hypocrisy of Evangelicals is shameful. Enabling and accepting this deplorable behavior is not Christian.
12
Trump is a buffoon. This is what we have come to expect and look ahead to until he is ushered out the door.
8
The lord sometimes uses the back door to show the way.
2
After George Bush was elected the second time, there was a British publication whose front cover said "How could 51% of Americans be so stupid?" I repeat that question.
11
The Joel Osteen's of our world exist, in a range of roles, from local to national and even global. Doing what they do. Which they shouldn't be doing. Not doing what they should be. In great part because lots of people, including you and me, enable them. To begin. Continue. Make necessary changes in their "devilish-doings" as realities change.Lots of words.And their often vocalized "smooth" words about...violate and mislead. As we, each of us with our own reasons, allow ourselves to be violated. Mislead. I am not mixing up the victim with the victimizer. History, then and now, is full of situations in which victims were too helpless to overcome their being violated Maimed. Killed. Stigmatized.Dehumanized.Complacency, cooptation, willful blindness, deafness, ignorance and "obstinate" repetition of failing adaptation, coping and functioning are man-made.Toxic.Infectious,But not genetic.Viral. Our doings. Our "undoings."What can, will, enable any of us to learn from our enablings of documentable THEM's, who are all around us, and then to begin to change our own behaviors?Copings?Functioning?Adaptations to a violating, exploiting, ummenschlichkeit, WE-THEY environment?Culture?Belief systems?If documenting "them" is just a beginning, a stimulus for planning, carrying out and assessing outcomes, all well and good.If this is little more than a litany of words,which, once noted,closes the "complaint,"
we are allowing ourselves to be coopted. There are choices to be made by US. Now.
we are allowing ourselves to be coopted. There are choices to be made by US. Now.
1
There's no big "meaning" or "mystery" to either Reverend Smiley or DJT. They embody what is popularly thought of as a "used car salesman" personality type. They're just pushing a more profitable product.
8
Osteen is the “religious equivalent” of tRump…a tin man! Useless. His only concern is how much can I get for me.
7
Osteen's soul is an empty as his values. He had to shamed into opening the doors to his so called church. Others were more then willing to step up and help all without being asked (as he claimed he needed to be). Those folks are true helpers such as the one's out saving people caught in the floods.
4
He is just like the rest of the TVpreachers their only god is money and they convince poor people to send it in.The real sin is that they are all tax exempt
7
Although I firmly believe 99.9% of humans are doing the best they can with what they have - nurture & nature given. In this case:
You reap what you sow.
In the end we hope this will be a Wake Up! call to the "rugged individualist-pull yourself up by your bootstraps" crowd that in the end we are all in this together - red & blue states, urban & rural, libs & cons, etc. As MLK so eloquently stated we first need the boots before we can help ourselves and then others...
“It’s all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.
You reap what you sow.
In the end we hope this will be a Wake Up! call to the "rugged individualist-pull yourself up by your bootstraps" crowd that in the end we are all in this together - red & blue states, urban & rural, libs & cons, etc. As MLK so eloquently stated we first need the boots before we can help ourselves and then others...
“It’s all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.
5
Non-sequitur here.
But after all, we are talking about greed, god-sanctioned and otherwise. .
WHERE ARE HIS TAX RETURNS ?
And why does nobody seem to care anymore.
WHAT IS HE HIDNG ????
But after all, we are talking about greed, god-sanctioned and otherwise. .
WHERE ARE HIS TAX RETURNS ?
And why does nobody seem to care anymore.
WHAT IS HE HIDNG ????
6
"Controversy doesn't build character, it reveals it". Whomever said that it sure fits this situation. Who ever heard of a priest or pastor not offering their church as a sanctuary? Mr Osteen revealed his true character: just another huckster con artist who could have used his oratory for good, but chose instead to hide behind a fake religion, to fleece his followers (read suckers). Where he's headed he won't need a sweater.
3
The "small government conservatives" in Texas, and the "private charities can do a better job than big government" folks down in the Lone Star State need to give is a good example of how this works.
The local charities in the greater Houston area should easily be able to handle the needs of those displaced by this disaster.
And, surely, the great State of Texas is big enough and wealthy enough that its state government can easily cover the cost of the disaster relief efforts and infrastructure rebuilding.
No need for an "oppressive national government" to meddle in "local affairs".
The local charities in the greater Houston area should easily be able to handle the needs of those displaced by this disaster.
And, surely, the great State of Texas is big enough and wealthy enough that its state government can easily cover the cost of the disaster relief efforts and infrastructure rebuilding.
No need for an "oppressive national government" to meddle in "local affairs".
3
I have no idea why we've all decided to throw battery acid on top of an already bad situation. This life is about giving love, receiving love, and staying present in joy. I have lost count of how many times I was in the dumps and this church lifted me up. I've never given a penny to Lakewood, and all I've learned from this church is to remember that God loves me even when circumstances, or my own thoughts tell me otherwise. I'm not some money hungry fool praying for a paycheck. I'm a recovering addict busting my butt to be a good man. At the end of every sermon all preachers at Lakewood encourage folks to join local bible based churches. And they remind you to tithe at those small churches.
I get it, I'm sure you have all the facts, figures and moments to throw at my face to say that the Osteens are evil, but folks, as someone that lived in Houston for several years it's hard for me to see it that way and as a God fearing man I definitely know I have no moral ground to judge from. I'm not saying this church is without fault, just that there is never a right time to judge and cast stones, especially when we have no idea what these people are going through or what it's like to run a stadium sized arena. All I know is Lakewood is hard enough to get to on a dry day, that it seems like they got caught off guard, and that they weren't the only church that took a minute to open the doors in Houston.
What are we doing for our neighbors today: focus on that.
I get it, I'm sure you have all the facts, figures and moments to throw at my face to say that the Osteens are evil, but folks, as someone that lived in Houston for several years it's hard for me to see it that way and as a God fearing man I definitely know I have no moral ground to judge from. I'm not saying this church is without fault, just that there is never a right time to judge and cast stones, especially when we have no idea what these people are going through or what it's like to run a stadium sized arena. All I know is Lakewood is hard enough to get to on a dry day, that it seems like they got caught off guard, and that they weren't the only church that took a minute to open the doors in Houston.
What are we doing for our neighbors today: focus on that.
5
This piece is politicizing the tragedy. Let the dust settle, asses the facts, and then judge. I understand Osteen housed 5000 after Katrina.
To make this about Republicans shows the hate that overwhelms.
You forgot to mention Obama golfed while people drowned in New Orleans, by the way.
To make this about Republicans shows the hate that overwhelms.
You forgot to mention Obama golfed while people drowned in New Orleans, by the way.
4
Perhaps Joe has forgotten that G. W. Bush--not Obama--was president at the time of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.
2
Osteen and all the other "Cash" Christian evangelican are akin to the evangelist in Sinclair Lewis's novel Elmer Gantry, which was made into an outstanding movie in 1960 starring Bert Lancaster and Shirley Jones.
These hucksters shear their flocks for personal gain. In so many ways, Donald Trump is a part of that culture with his Trump University con, his promises of good, inexpensive health care for all if elected and many other deceptions.
Unfortunately, a large portion of our population will remain conned by the Osteens and Trumps of the world -- permanent victims. The challenge is for that remaining 70-80 percent of the population to keep our democracy and moral values in an era of social media-boosted fraud.
Hopefully, peopled will read Lewis's book or watch the 1960 movie. A lot to learn about today from the past they present.
These hucksters shear their flocks for personal gain. In so many ways, Donald Trump is a part of that culture with his Trump University con, his promises of good, inexpensive health care for all if elected and many other deceptions.
Unfortunately, a large portion of our population will remain conned by the Osteens and Trumps of the world -- permanent victims. The challenge is for that remaining 70-80 percent of the population to keep our democracy and moral values in an era of social media-boosted fraud.
Hopefully, peopled will read Lewis's book or watch the 1960 movie. A lot to learn about today from the past they present.
4
They have been around for years in this country. We send the Madoffs to jail for ripping people off, why not the Osteens.
5
because Madoff ripped off wealthy people, that is the only reason he was convicted.
1
Spot on. To fuel a cognitive dissonance that allows us to function in everyday life without feeling overwhelmed, we create narratives that "They didn't do ____, therefore they deserve ____. These false narratives are composed of two essential storylines: 1) they are bad / lazy / not trying hard enough, and therefore they deserve what they get; and 2) My safety / success / prosperity is the result of my efforts and my efforts alone. No one ever helped me with anything. Both require a measure of self-delusion.
I'm not a Christian, but I know Jesus did not subscribe to this way of thinking.
I'm not a Christian, but I know Jesus did not subscribe to this way of thinking.
6
Right On!
The so-called "Prosperity Gospel" is just code for "blame the victim." That's why I've railed against it for years.
4
I hate Trump. But, he DID express sympathy for flood victims. Simple research such as watching his Texas appearance would suffice.
1
Sinclair Lewis had it right in "Elmer Gantry." Preacher Joel is a direct descendant.
3
Amen sister!
The prosperity gospel is hardly unique to "morally bankrupt souls" like Trump and Osteen. Here in western Michigan we are knee deep in the tenets of Dutch Calvinism. The prosperity gospel has a long history in America, it didn't just arrive with hucksters like Trump and Osteen.
4
Then you have the morally bankrupt "progressives" who blame Texans for not appeasing the climate gods and bringing the hurricane upon themselves.
By the way what have any "progressives" done to alleviate the suffering? Talk about all hat and no cattle - lots of hot air and name calling though.
By the way what have any "progressives" done to alleviate the suffering? Talk about all hat and no cattle - lots of hot air and name calling though.
1
You can say the same for Pat Robertson and his ilk, who blame it on the gays, among others.
2
My older brother -- now departed -- once confided to me the secret of success of people such as Trump and Osteen. I share it tonight with NYTimes commenters.
"You can fool all of the people some of the time,
or you can fool some of the people all of the time...
and that is sufficient."
"You can fool all of the people some of the time,
or you can fool some of the people all of the time...
and that is sufficient."
7
I can hardly believe the despicable Ted Cruz is a senator. That anyone would vote for him defies logic. When the Texas bureau of tourism says "Texas is like a whole nother country", they're not kidding.
7
So, so good-thank you! I am an evangelical Christian who is disgusted by both of these men.
8
Right on!
4
The Mercer family that would fit into this story as well. They despise people that are not wealthy and seem to think that anyone who is not wealthy is just lazy or less of a human than the wealthy.
A 16,800 seat church is a mega concert venue and couldn't possibly be seen as a place of true humility and community. What a farce.
A 16,800 seat church is a mega concert venue and couldn't possibly be seen as a place of true humility and community. What a farce.
7
Joel Osteen and Donald Trump both seem to follow the advice of the Reverend Ike, who reportedly said, "The best thing I can do for the poor is to not be one of them."
6
No Exit, 2017 - Osteen, Trump, Hannity
2
Please send donations to Houston-area Salvation Army. These
good people administer to all who are in need . And you can
be assured they are not quartered in River Oaks where Osteen
has a 10M mansion.
good people administer to all who are in need . And you can
be assured they are not quartered in River Oaks where Osteen
has a 10M mansion.
3
All around the world heartbreak as we watch Harvey rampage. Everyone wants to know: What can we do? What can we do? Here are your leaders of Church and State. Whatever they do. . .just do the opposite. "God's got this." What a way to abdicate responsibility And blast contempt for the "Losers" who lost everything.
3
I think it's unfair to compare Joel Osteen to Donald Trump. Osteen only managed to con a congregation, not a nation.
11
Really well said. So true.
A city is under duress and faces a future no less bleak because people don't like facing hard choices. With evangelical leaders like this guy and Robert Jeffress telling their flocks to pray for the wrong things and just put their faith in god combined with politicians who hate taxes, regulation and federal government Houston is a dystopia of unbridled capitalism and greedy entrepreneurs. And guess who picks up the tab for this recklessness?
5
I'd appreciate a hard news piece on this church's choices at such a defining moment. This op-ed links to sources that are ambiguous, contradictory, and confusing. Elsewhere, I've read that Lakewood served as a shelter during a prior storm; and that Lakewood has no shower or kitchen facilities, making it a poor choice as a shelter. Many of these assertions clearly cut against one another. An article presenting clear, well-sourced information would help readers avoid a poorly-informed pile-on.
4
Hey Gov. Abbott, How do you now feel about failing to restore (even though the Tx. House voted unanimously to do so) most of the $350 million cut to poor kids ages 1-3 in need of acute care therapy?
Like Cruz, Osteen and Trump your platitudes are all the pubic can expect while the misery you allow to go unabated, says what you really stand for. While at it, keep turning a blind eye to the Texas nursing homes which the AARP rates "F" and where seven in ten residents are on Medicaid. Guess these Texans are not living the prosperity gospel or they'd be living in Houston's uppity River Oaks, West Lake Hills in Austin or Highland Park in Dallas.
John Kasich was spot on when he said:
"Now, when you die and get to the meeting with St. Peter, he's probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor. You better have a good answer,"
Like Cruz, Osteen and Trump your platitudes are all the pubic can expect while the misery you allow to go unabated, says what you really stand for. While at it, keep turning a blind eye to the Texas nursing homes which the AARP rates "F" and where seven in ten residents are on Medicaid. Guess these Texans are not living the prosperity gospel or they'd be living in Houston's uppity River Oaks, West Lake Hills in Austin or Highland Park in Dallas.
John Kasich was spot on when he said:
"Now, when you die and get to the meeting with St. Peter, he's probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor. You better have a good answer,"
7
Prosperity Gospel is what you get once you let Christianity be infected by the American secular values of individualism and capitalism. Instead of being a counter to the prevailing culture, Prosperity Gospel doubles down on it. It fails to see its own permissiveness because it has redefined sin as applying only to sex.
3
There was once a poor Nazarene who threw the money changers out of the temple and said it was harder for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of a needle. I wonder what he would say about Trump and Osteen?
3
Well after all, "the Lord helps those who help themselves" - and boy howdy, do they ever!
Prosperity Gospel has its roots in a plot by Olde Money in the late 1930s to reverse the godless New Deal. It was also the beginning of the Religious Right (Cf. Kruse, "One Nation Under God"). I can't imagine that the guy who threw the money changers out of the temple much approves of what gets advocated in his name.
Prosperity Gospel has its roots in a plot by Olde Money in the late 1930s to reverse the godless New Deal. It was also the beginning of the Religious Right (Cf. Kruse, "One Nation Under God"). I can't imagine that the guy who threw the money changers out of the temple much approves of what gets advocated in his name.
1
Prosperity Gospel played major role in rise of Orange County California Conservative grass roots
Politicking leading up to the advent of Reagan. Great book on subject: Suburban Warriors by Lisa McGirr.
Politicking leading up to the advent of Reagan. Great book on subject: Suburban Warriors by Lisa McGirr.
2
Oh come on! What about Trump's own personal Houstons? All of those rained-out golf games he's suffered through.
1
The Osteen Christians remind me of
the story in the
Bible :
"He who laid down at the rich man's gate,
begged for to eat, or food from his store,
but they left him to die, like a tramp on the street."
the story in the
Bible :
"He who laid down at the rich man's gate,
begged for to eat, or food from his store,
but they left him to die, like a tramp on the street."
1
Osteen and Trump both built their wealth on victimizing suckers. Sad.
6
Looks like God sent Osteen a test. Osteen failed it. Bigly.
3
But then there's the Catholic mattress salesman turned shelter provider "Mattress" Mac. He's the real deal!
4
My husband's quote, "Jesus didn't hang out with a bunch of rich guys"-
3
It's beyon me why so mayny Americans fall for damgogues such as Trump and Osteen.
Listen to the Dire Straits Song "Ticket to Heaven". The Country-Schmaltz unerscores the lyrics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6wp4Mm81I
Listen to the Dire Straits Song "Ticket to Heaven". The Country-Schmaltz unerscores the lyrics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6wp4Mm81I
Saps...followers of both. But if one is a 'believer', even this won't change their opinion. There will always be resolution to the cognitive dissoance and I await to read if donations to the so-called church (blasphemy if ever there was) stop pouring in.
1
Joel Osteen's;s behavior during Hurricane Harvey is what it would be like if Mike Pence was President.
Lots of talk about being a Christian and no effort to serve and support the people in his flock.
Lots of talk about being a Christian and no effort to serve and support the people in his flock.
1
How much better it might have been if we’d just let the south secede in ‘61. Then built a wall on OUR southwestern boarder.@granny846
2
Mr. Osteen is a Pharisee standing in the streets proclaiming his righteousness. He is a modern example of the rich young man in the NT, who sorrowing, turned from Jesus and walked away because money was the most important thing in his life.
I saw hundreds of people in overalls and clothes no Fendi, Wong, or Lauren would put their name on, wading in filthy and dangerous waters to rescue others, some no doubt members of Osteen's so-called "church". Not one of them brought attention to themselves. Not an Osteen or Pharisee in the bunch. Christianity still lives. Somewhere. Somehow.
I saw hundreds of people in overalls and clothes no Fendi, Wong, or Lauren would put their name on, wading in filthy and dangerous waters to rescue others, some no doubt members of Osteen's so-called "church". Not one of them brought attention to themselves. Not an Osteen or Pharisee in the bunch. Christianity still lives. Somewhere. Somehow.
I'm shocked, ,shocked to learn that "Man of the Cloth" Osteen, is a liar just like #45. Indeed, who would have ever thought that a preacher of Osteen's stature would ever lie? Oops! Now I remember: Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker.
1
The guy is a total charlatan his whole ministry is debunked by Matthew 6:24. I don't understand how ao many Americans are suckered by guys like this.
1
Osteen is another "religious" con man up there with Jerry "hooker in the motel room" Falwell, and Oral "I'm going to lock myself in my prayer tower until I get millions of donations" Roberts. Osteen is indeed another lying ("We aren't accessible from the flooding"; "Houston never asked us to open!") conman in it for the big buck! A TRUE Christian that actually follows what Christ allegedly said, would NOT have had to have anyone ask for his help! He truly is up there with Trump, but like Trump, his little minded proles will just continue blindly following him like zombies. Clowns like Osteen are why I eventually became agnostic, as a true good, just, and pure God or messiah would never have allowed such hedonism as Osteen nor Trump to thrive in the first place!
2
The "oldest profession" is not the oldest profession -- that would be con men (yes, for the most part men) fleecing believers out of their money. But both involve a prostitution of sorts...
The Parable of the Good Samaritan
…he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
This is the true meaning of Christianity. Not the dribble being shoved out by Osteen.
Another observation: The Good Samaritan didn't check for "papers".
…he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
This is the true meaning of Christianity. Not the dribble being shoved out by Osteen.
Another observation: The Good Samaritan didn't check for "papers".
3
Man, what a creep.
1
And so Joel Osteen
And his church are so clean
Parting waters indeed
For the triumph of mean
Spared from the flood
Yet covered in mud
His prosperity gospel
Turns out to be hostile
To those who're in need
But not of his creed
Will parishoners heed
Osteen's dirty deed?
Will the sun ever come out
For his truly devout?
For there was no flood
Yet all's covered in mud
And as the water retreats
Up front there'll be seats
For Arpaio and Trump
For Arpaios and Trumps
As for Osteen
A miracle indeed.
For there was no flood
Yet all's covered in mud
They're all covered in mud...
And his church are so clean
Parting waters indeed
For the triumph of mean
Spared from the flood
Yet covered in mud
His prosperity gospel
Turns out to be hostile
To those who're in need
But not of his creed
Will parishoners heed
Osteen's dirty deed?
Will the sun ever come out
For his truly devout?
For there was no flood
Yet all's covered in mud
And as the water retreats
Up front there'll be seats
For Arpaio and Trump
For Arpaios and Trumps
As for Osteen
A miracle indeed.
For there was no flood
Yet all's covered in mud
They're all covered in mud...
4
A sucker is born every minute and Osteen and Trump
Have found them all.
Have found them all.
4
Elmer Gantry, anyone?
Preachers like Osteen have been making fortunes off of folks who innocently stuff his collection plate every Sunday in the hopes of winning a spiritual lottery. Fallwell, Bakker, Swaggart, Hind...on and on. They scoop up Christian charity like vaccuum cleaners.
A uniquely American phenomenon: monitizing religeous faith.
Preachers like Osteen have been making fortunes off of folks who innocently stuff his collection plate every Sunday in the hopes of winning a spiritual lottery. Fallwell, Bakker, Swaggart, Hind...on and on. They scoop up Christian charity like vaccuum cleaners.
A uniquely American phenomenon: monitizing religeous faith.
2
Osteen says "the government did not ask them to be a shelter" ????? This man talks about doing the right thing every sunday. Now, when he is put to the test of opening up his place of worship as a sanctuary during a natural disaster to people with nowhere else to go, he says he was not asked by someone else to do the right thing, so it did not occur to him to do so ??? As Ricky Ricardo said to Lucille Ball on the "I Love Lucy" show, "you have some splain'in to do." If we don't hear a reasonable explanation from Mr. Osteen as to why he did not do the right thing right away (and even a confession of sin, sorts), I think we know all we need to know about Mr. Joel Osteen.
1
the essay failed to mention that many of the folks who adhere to the "gospels" preached by such charlatans as Osteen and Trump are indeed "followers" who choose not to follow the path of reason, either b/c they lack the required mental discipline or b/c they enjoy being led by the nose.
1
There used to be a term for people like Trump and this odious phoney baloney faux Christian con man Osteen back in the sixties. That term was: PIGS. But Americsns are a stupid, ignorant lot, and this reign of Republican swine is not likely to end soon, or end well.
1
Apart from the knee-jerk, "Republicans - bad!" sentiment, I agree with much of the article. But all sides are guilty when they sit back and point out the flaws of others, while perhaps not tending to their own issues. Actually, the Bible (Jesus specifically, in a parable) does say it better, "Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?" That Mattress Mac guy seems to have done right. He didn't wait to be asked by "the authorities" before doing good. I hope that's a lesson that everyone can employ.
1
why is anyone surprised when toothy used car salesmen like this unrepentant charlatan in holy vestments end up behaving like . . . used car salesmen?
1
People are forever gullible and stupid. Rinse and repeat a billion times.
5
Osteen & Trump = The reason we need Senators Warren and Sanders to prevent narcissism and chicanery from becoming the new normal. Live free from Trump or die.
2
If a mattress salesman and every mosque in Houston can open up to provide free shelter, don't tell me Osteen's reluctance was reasonable. Please remember what the Bible actually says about taking in the needy even if it means taking some risk. That is what real Christians and real churches do. They don't consider their own needs first. If you do not understand this, you missed the most basic lesson of Christ, and you should admit that you're not a Christian but the follower of a bizarre American cult.
I moved to the US when I was 12. I had never before seen or heard of "TV evangelists." When I happened upon such a show on TV for the first time, I honestly thought it was a satire of some kind. I didn't think it was a good satire, however, because it was too extreme. For satire to work, it has to land on that sweet spot between absurd and believable. This nonsense was merely absurd, with no attempt to bridge reality even a little bit. When I later learned that these people were serious, I couldn't wrap my head around it. How can anyone look at people like Osteen and see anything other than shysters manipulating the ignorant, the vulnerable, and the childish?
Decades later, I had a few friends from Sweden visiting me in L.A. When they came upon a TV-evangelist show, they asked me if it was some sort of comedy whose humor they did not fully understand. I was deeply embarrassed to tell them that no, this is a real thing here in the US.
I still can't wrap my mind around it.
I moved to the US when I was 12. I had never before seen or heard of "TV evangelists." When I happened upon such a show on TV for the first time, I honestly thought it was a satire of some kind. I didn't think it was a good satire, however, because it was too extreme. For satire to work, it has to land on that sweet spot between absurd and believable. This nonsense was merely absurd, with no attempt to bridge reality even a little bit. When I later learned that these people were serious, I couldn't wrap my head around it. How can anyone look at people like Osteen and see anything other than shysters manipulating the ignorant, the vulnerable, and the childish?
Decades later, I had a few friends from Sweden visiting me in L.A. When they came upon a TV-evangelist show, they asked me if it was some sort of comedy whose humor they did not fully understand. I was deeply embarrassed to tell them that no, this is a real thing here in the US.
I still can't wrap my mind around it.
10
Both Osteen and The SCP are con men. Always have been, always will be. They are in it for prosperity for themselves and they achieve it by selling snake oil. In Osteen's case the "prosperity" gospel, which is a perversion of religion, and in the SCP's case it is anything, from Trump U, to Trump Steaks, to the Trump Hat. They have learned one thing, never give the sucker and even break.
2
We didn't help "because we weren't asked." Mr. Osteen, not only have you violated the very tenants of Christianity but you have abandoned all semblance of basic human decency. I think the bigger concern was losing a Sunday when the plate couldn't be passed for collections. There was more Christian spirit found in Houston furniture stores and bowling alleys and even bass boats than there was in Osteen's palace.
5
When (and if) Osteen makes it to the Pearly Gates, he will have some explaining to do.
2
Who are the people who line up to be conned by the likes of Trump and Osteen? It's reminiscent of the villain in The Magnificent Seven who says of the poor villagers he is stealing from..."If God didn't want them sheared, He would not have made them sheep."
2
Just another carnival barker, proving that Barnum encapsulated the core truth: There is a sucker born every minute. The corollary of that is that every so often someone is born who is willing to take advantage of them for personal gain. Old news. The response of Osteen's "church" just proves he's a Christian fraud.
1
There is a long history of slick sociopathic parasites that have made oddles of money preying on the lower classes that make up the spiritual army of American Protestantism. They are the frauds, charlatans, and self-appointed theological pimps who front DIY-ish evangelicalism. Osteen is simply the modern day equivalent of the old carnival tent revivals that have been around for more than a century and a half. There is the sincerity of soul-troubled individuals who seek answers in religion and in the revivalist-Evangelical strains of Christianity. After all, the Baptist-Methodist revivals of the early 19th century were early moments in which blacks (then slaves) and whites came together. But there are also many hustlers, pimps, and grifters who take advantage of and manipulate this deep need and impulse to satisfy spiritual quest. The Osteens and Trumps belong to a tradition--they know how to hijack everyday people. These money-grubbers prey on the genuine theological, spiritual, and economic anguish of everyday people. Such grifters, though working different cultural spheres, overlap and co-shape one another's schemas. In this connection, the tragedy of Trumpism finds its secular-grifter equivalent in an Osteen. But there are may Osteens---though less spectacular (of the status of cultural spectacle). What is tragic are the millions who fall for such snakeoil salesmen; they have the least to give---give, they do--and have the most to lose--and lose, the do.
4
Both men have a tough job ahead with God right after death on the issue of " storing wealth" and not giving enough to Lazarus begging at the gate. But the author in her passion against that, got tricked into underquoting Osteen on the reasons he didn't open the building and underquoting Trump..." we're with you today...tomorrow and everyday until etc." as to compassion. Surprised it got through as an op ed.
According to the Bible, Jesus was among the poorest of people even for his times when common people were truly poor and, so were most if not all of his original followers. I guess according to liars like Osteen and Trump, they were all just a bunch of faithless bad-attitude losers, following the biggest faithless, bad-attitude loser of them all, who can say for sure?
3
Well said, Ms. Butler.
There is one question that never seems to get answered. The Osteens and Trumps of the world have been exposed for their corruptness time and again. They ultimately fail and fall into disgrace. Their flocks blame Satan (which now means liberals, Democrats and Barack Obama). In no time another crook inevitably shows up and the same suckers flock to them. What's wrong with them ?
There is one question that never seems to get answered. The Osteens and Trumps of the world have been exposed for their corruptness time and again. They ultimately fail and fall into disgrace. Their flocks blame Satan (which now means liberals, Democrats and Barack Obama). In no time another crook inevitably shows up and the same suckers flock to them. What's wrong with them ?
4
I try to remain objective, but then I am encouraged (nay, cheered) by some of the more rational posts.
NYTimes readers, particularly the avid posters, should step back and look at the hate, envy, and vengefulness dripping from these Comments.
It is alarming, the degree to feast on negative news and call Christians and any others "stupid".
Perhaps these Comments are the biggest reason I could never register as a Democrat. They are revelatory of very pious and critical people who not only cast stones but eagerly so.
NYTimes readers, particularly the avid posters, should step back and look at the hate, envy, and vengefulness dripping from these Comments.
It is alarming, the degree to feast on negative news and call Christians and any others "stupid".
Perhaps these Comments are the biggest reason I could never register as a Democrat. They are revelatory of very pious and critical people who not only cast stones but eagerly so.
1
Do you believe Osteen or trump are Christians? I know many Christians and NONE of them act like these two, they give Christians a bad name and calling them out is important and has nothing to do with jealousy or the fact that true Christians are admired. You will find almost NO ONE, even atheists that think that Jesus's messages were incorrect, that is the point, these charlatans corrupt the message of Jesus.
1
@Susan
I don't need someone to point out hypocrisy. I also don't have a great deal of difficulty identifying false prophets. My point in the post, and it was quite specific as to behavior, was that Liberals and Progressives are not the stewards of love and light any more than Conservatives have cornered the market on hate and selfishness.
Human beings are flawed, deeply so. While many people are arguing over whether the world is 100 or 200 million years old and Bible readers are ignorant, there are a good many people who understand that Liberal elites will not change human hearts by name-calling or the implicit support of violence at the hands of people like Antifa.
This is very courant, this need to "point out" bad behavior. It seems that the piety comes not just from Evangelicals but equally from Liberals (if not more so).
It is very ironic.
I don't need someone to point out hypocrisy. I also don't have a great deal of difficulty identifying false prophets. My point in the post, and it was quite specific as to behavior, was that Liberals and Progressives are not the stewards of love and light any more than Conservatives have cornered the market on hate and selfishness.
Human beings are flawed, deeply so. While many people are arguing over whether the world is 100 or 200 million years old and Bible readers are ignorant, there are a good many people who understand that Liberal elites will not change human hearts by name-calling or the implicit support of violence at the hands of people like Antifa.
This is very courant, this need to "point out" bad behavior. It seems that the piety comes not just from Evangelicals but equally from Liberals (if not more so).
It is very ironic.
1
Don't the who is more disgusting. The hypocrite or the braggart....
1
With the climate becoming more strange,
Trump spends his time home on the range.
While Houstonians paddle,
The fat cat's in his saddle:
All hat and no cattle's deranged.
Trump spends his time home on the range.
While Houstonians paddle,
The fat cat's in his saddle:
All hat and no cattle's deranged.
2
Isn't Mr. Osteen basically a beggar? Does he not ask for money every time he goes on TV to preach whatever message he has for the gullible?
Isn't all his wealth built on donations from these poor souls who buy into whatever biblical message he pushes on TV - always followed by a call for donations o of course.
How much productive work has he ever done in his life?
Most places this guy would be called a rip-off artist.
Isn't all his wealth built on donations from these poor souls who buy into whatever biblical message he pushes on TV - always followed by a call for donations o of course.
How much productive work has he ever done in his life?
Most places this guy would be called a rip-off artist.
1
Snake oil magnate Joel Osteen's business should be boycotted. He has shown his true colors to be black
His poor brainwashed followers must understand that he is not their friend They need to wake up and go to real churches of God for any true spiritual guidance
His poor brainwashed followers must understand that he is not their friend They need to wake up and go to real churches of God for any true spiritual guidance
1
Pseudo christian Joel Osteen and others of his ilk are charlatans and con men. So are conservatives and the Repugnant Party
2
I have never, not once, not ever seen any example of charity from Joel Osteen's church for Houston or any other community. What a creep.
2
Osteen's success as a complete con man goes a long way toward explaining the illiterate buffoon who currently occupies the Oval Office.
Simply put, there are a lot of incredibly stupid people in this country.
Simply put, there are a lot of incredibly stupid people in this country.
1
Did the author of this article mention what he did to help those in Texas? Oh, he did nothing? Who is surprised? Who among us will write an article calling him out? I'm not a Trump fan nor am I a fan of super rich pastors but I don't really care for a whole lot of figure pointing. Especially in the middle of a crisses.
1
You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person. There are kind and upstanding people in every faith. I don't trust anyone who calls himself or herself evangelical or man of cloth in any religion. Show me a minister, a mullah, or a rabbi who is poor. God is the only one I have to answer to. To be a good person, is to have love and empathy for your fellow man. I don't believe Ostend, trump or others like them are good People. If they can put their head on their pillow at night knowing they have not done anything to help people in need, and are not bothered by it, they're small and no good for anything.
1
Anthea Butler - could you please run for political office? You use your words to advance good in the world. Expose the frauds for what they are. There is nothing more powerful and needed right now than writers who cut to the core of the matter with the facts. And thanks for delivering the knock-out punch in the last sentence. "All hat and no cattle" indeed. Keep exposing the snake oil salesmen. And let the cattle stampede those guys out of Texas and the rest of our beloved country.
Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show (apologies to Neil Diamond).
1
These 2 men have completely alienated me from the religion of my childhood.
Osteen and his ilk are the pro wrestlers of religion.
And Jesus said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God". Maybe these good Christian people should actually follow the teachings of Christ.
2
Guys like Trump and Osteen give off an odor that is pretty easy for most of us to smell. It's the stench of the classic scam artist or "big lie" seller. Unfortunately many naive and needy folks block out the foul smell and write checks to Trump University or some televangelist. Sad.....but also obvious.
Amen, brother. Excellent column. Thank you for your clear thinking and pointing out the endless hypocrisy and empty blathering --and worse -- of Trump and Osteen and Cruz and others like them.
1
And just as with Trump, Mr Osteen's followers will continue to deny, support and further evangelize their anointed leader.
Expect Osteen contributions to double or triple in the next coming months.
Expect Osteen contributions to double or triple in the next coming months.
Assuming Osteen was right in saying "God's got this" - I guess God just blew big time.
Again, this is well written, well said. After reading this, I really questionned how can people follow leaders who are so obviously empty suits to most others. It hit me, they both are cult leaders.
How did Osteen make his gizillions using religious teachings for greed? How can Trump who is so obviously a grifter, mobster have such a following? Trump's followers don't question what he does, they just follow. They buy his $40 caps that probably cost $1 to make in China. The joke is on the GOP who voted for Trump because he was the GOP candidate. I think some of these people just cannot admit they made a mistake. But Trump's core followers are cult members.
The people who read and question don't follow people like Osteen and Trump. So my question is, how to keep people from following empty leaders like these two? The people who follow them both ignore all the criticism and don't read it.
Perhaps Osteen's reaction to the flood will wake some of his follower's up and show him for the imposter that he is.
How did Osteen make his gizillions using religious teachings for greed? How can Trump who is so obviously a grifter, mobster have such a following? Trump's followers don't question what he does, they just follow. They buy his $40 caps that probably cost $1 to make in China. The joke is on the GOP who voted for Trump because he was the GOP candidate. I think some of these people just cannot admit they made a mistake. But Trump's core followers are cult members.
The people who read and question don't follow people like Osteen and Trump. So my question is, how to keep people from following empty leaders like these two? The people who follow them both ignore all the criticism and don't read it.
Perhaps Osteen's reaction to the flood will wake some of his follower's up and show him for the imposter that he is.
1
The Christian haters in the NYT's and their ilk are always lurking, and quick to judge others "bad" behavior. This is yet another cheap shot across the bow of institutionalized Christianity. Had this been an Islamic Center that supports the destruction of Israel and the decapitation of "infidels" there would be silence from this paper as such attacks would be deemed "insensitive." But it is always open season on Christians as it has been from the beginning. The hypocrisy is palpable.
1
Well, of course you are wrong on every point.
But really, some Christians really need to get over their victim mentality.
But really, some Christians really need to get over their victim mentality.
2
I do not care for Mr Osteen or what he and his wife preach, but their church has neither the bathrooms or the shower facilities to act as a shelter for large numbers of people, as other news outlets have reported.
1
Pastors like Osteen took Christ out of Christianity and monetized it. Sayings not found in the Gospel of Prosperity Bible: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven." They probably think it's Fake News that Jesus was crucified and, worse yet, wasn't rich.
2
Both Trump and Osteen remind one of the Gospel that says Christ went to the mountain where he met Satan. Satan showed him immense riches and intoned, "Ye shall have al of this if you but bow down and worship me." To which Christ replied, "Get thee behind me, Satan, for I must be about my father's business." But like many weak mortals, Trump and Osteen took the riches and forfeited their weak souls...
5
1 Kings 22.19-23
19 Then Micaiah* said, ‘Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him. 20And the Lord said, “Who will entice Ahab, so that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” Then one said one thing, and another said another, 21until a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, “I will entice him.” 22“How?” the Lord asked him. He replied, “I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” Then the Lord * said, “You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do it.” 23So you see, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has decreed disaster for you.’
Has the Lord asked, “How can I destroy the American Empire?”? And has he received the answer from one of his attendant spirits, “I will go down and put a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets” who enticed some of the voters? I hope not, but when I hears some people say that Trump is the man God wanted, I find myself asking, “Wanted for what?”
19 Then Micaiah* said, ‘Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him to the right and to the left of him. 20And the Lord said, “Who will entice Ahab, so that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?” Then one said one thing, and another said another, 21until a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, “I will entice him.” 22“How?” the Lord asked him. He replied, “I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.” Then the Lord * said, “You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do it.” 23So you see, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has decreed disaster for you.’
Has the Lord asked, “How can I destroy the American Empire?”? And has he received the answer from one of his attendant spirits, “I will go down and put a lying spirit in the mouths of the prophets” who enticed some of the voters? I hope not, but when I hears some people say that Trump is the man God wanted, I find myself asking, “Wanted for what?”
To expose the hypocrisy of church leadership in our Nation and World. He is giving us a real time example of what the Pharisees and Sadducees look like.
Speaking of Texans, I really wish Molly Ivins were alive, her Texan perspective was priceless, wonder what she would think of Abbott & Trump
2
2 disgusting CON-MEN..................
2
Joel Osteen once described being gay or Lesbian as "not God's best." I have to say Mr. Osteen's response to Hurricane Harvey is "not God's best."
6
They're both con men and neither of them gives a fig what the NY Times or its readership thinks.
2
Hey, Joel: Give me that prime-time, money grabbing " religion".
You, Sir, are a horrid, loathsome creature. Congratulations.
You, Sir, are a horrid, loathsome creature. Congratulations.
2
Poverty is a state of mind which is easily influenced by all hat and co cattle--sadly!
"Pastor" Joel Osteen and Trump are mirror images in moral depravity. And both enjoy enormous support from "Christian" Evangelicals. These extreme right wing Evangelicals are nothing but GOP political operative and as such should have their IRS tax exemption revoked. And lest we forget, members of the shadowy CNP including Pence, DeVos & Erik Prince are pushing hard to end the Johnson Amendment - their goal is to transform these so called right wing "Christian" extremist churches into GOP slush funds. It's been a 30 year goal of the CNP, funded by extremist billionaires, to subvert our democracy and create a Theocracy. Hurricane Harvey and "Pastor" Osteen's reaction as he sat in his mega mansion shines a bit of light on these depraved extremists.
2
This seems to be a flood of biblical proportions. So, where's Noah when we need him? Instead, Houstonians get Osteen, who keeps his mega-ark's doors locked until the bad publicity forces him to invite a few poor, bedraggled citizens aboard. Some Christian.
2
"The cheaper the patter, the guadier the crook." --Sam Spade
2
Osteen merely uses Christianity to make himself rich. It is a sad commentary on our cultural blindness that American hordes follow him. While he does not lead his followers into the jungle to drink poison, the basic difference is that people who continue to fatten his bank account have lost themselves to his manipulations. And with media serve his interests as well.
1
Osteen and Trump are truly ugly soulmates. Both worship the Almighty $$$. Both are addicted to preaching to large adoring crowds who are brainwashed by their every word. Both turn their back on the poor... Trump wants no poor people in his Cabinet positions and Osteen locks his gleaming mega church doors to poor refugees in dire need.
2
"There's a sucker born every minute", and those are the people Trump and Osteen focus on.
The Osteen's in life have a selective reading of their scriptures that create Christianity in their own "success" oriented image. If they read their scripture more carefully Jesus would come out as a loser who associated himself with the poor and social outcasts. As for the Donald he has built his "success" on the backs of the people he ripped off at Trump University and the contractors he never paid for his projects. Now making America great again means a reverse Rorbn Hood of robbing the poor to pay the rich. Our motto should be "Make America Moral Again"!
2
The tax code has made it easy to be one thing, and pretend you are another, and it makes lying, cheating, false modesty, religious sanctimony, the norm. Anyone that takes over 200,000 for a speaking fee from Goldman Sachs, or gets a book deal for over one million, or earns millions a year as a professional athlete, while the taxpayer pays for their places to play in, has little of substance to offer the average person in a crisis. The American public is finding out that morality doesn't exist in those who have no qualms about being rich off a tax code, while there are so many who go to work for next to nothing. Take your Trumps, Osteens, Clintons, Obamas, as they are all poured out of the cloth, and you can have them all!
1
Right about now is when I start hitting mute on the tv.
"God's got this", says Joel Osteen.
No, Joel. According to your tax-exempt beliefs, God CAUSED this, "separating the wheat from the chaff" and all that, and you sure didn't want any "chaff" mucking up your carpets.
Lost in all of this "prosperity gospel" is the fact that Osteen lied.
He claimed his precious church was in the midst of flooding - but photos posted on line showed it high and dry.
I'm not sure which is worse: Osteen lying about his church because the last thing he wanted was the "great unwashed" smelling up his church, or the news coverage of the desperate and frantic claiming that God "saved" them, while never speaking of their neighbor being killed. Who knew God could be so personal?
Disasters bring out the best and the worse in us.
Disasters also bring out the best or worse of famous preachers and politicians.
Don't be thinking that Trump is going to kick in a fat check. His record on "charity" is sickening on how he has manipulated others into giving in HIS name, promising bucks and never delivering and diverting funds to himself.
All that is new here is Osteen openly lying on "his" personal property, his tax-exempt church that could have housed thousands in safety due to its elevation. "It's FLOODED!" he lied..... and how many died?
Nope. Time to hit "mute".
This is now the time where the coverage of this monumental disaster gets icky and self-serving.
[mute]
"God's got this", says Joel Osteen.
No, Joel. According to your tax-exempt beliefs, God CAUSED this, "separating the wheat from the chaff" and all that, and you sure didn't want any "chaff" mucking up your carpets.
Lost in all of this "prosperity gospel" is the fact that Osteen lied.
He claimed his precious church was in the midst of flooding - but photos posted on line showed it high and dry.
I'm not sure which is worse: Osteen lying about his church because the last thing he wanted was the "great unwashed" smelling up his church, or the news coverage of the desperate and frantic claiming that God "saved" them, while never speaking of their neighbor being killed. Who knew God could be so personal?
Disasters bring out the best and the worse in us.
Disasters also bring out the best or worse of famous preachers and politicians.
Don't be thinking that Trump is going to kick in a fat check. His record on "charity" is sickening on how he has manipulated others into giving in HIS name, promising bucks and never delivering and diverting funds to himself.
All that is new here is Osteen openly lying on "his" personal property, his tax-exempt church that could have housed thousands in safety due to its elevation. "It's FLOODED!" he lied..... and how many died?
Nope. Time to hit "mute".
This is now the time where the coverage of this monumental disaster gets icky and self-serving.
[mute]
2
"There's a sucker born every minute."
-- P. T. Barnum
-- Joel Osteen
-- Donald J. Trump
-- The G.O.P.
-- P. T. Barnum
-- Joel Osteen
-- Donald J. Trump
-- The G.O.P.
While I agree with Mr. Blow. I hold no sympathy for those who are gullible enough to fall for his, or any prosperity preachers nonsense. If trite bumper sticker cliches are seen as helpful and deep..its a reflection on that person, not the Hallmark brained speaker.
If "hold on baby Fridays coming!" gives you comfort...you have no depth of thought or spirit.
If "hold on baby Fridays coming!" gives you comfort...you have no depth of thought or spirit.
1
Keep an eye on how many millions Osteen tries to pry out of the Federal Gov't in flood damage. After all it isn't godly, in Osteen's eyes, to let a good flood go to waste.
The moral superiority of y'all libbies is awesome. This is no time to rest on your left supremacy, though. There is evil out there in the world, and it is your duty to give names to it and to banish it.
Keep up the good works.
Keep up the good works.
Osteen and Trump are MegaCharlatans. "Believers" in these men are self-delusional.
From birth to death Jesus CHOSE poverty and self sacrifice. It is the inescapable theme of the four gospels. Duh....
Osteen and Trump are laughing all the way to the bank.
Pastor Osteen's megachurch appears to be more like a corporation than a church. Eventually, I am sure we will see his and other Evangelical megachurches listed on the NYSE. It's nothing personal, God. It's strictly business.
Olsteen is one more reason to be ashamed of Texas. I grew up in Texas and often heard how evil and sinful California was. Aids was a punishment from God and those w AIDS, particularly those in CA deserved God's wrath...All the earthquakes in CA were a result of "God's Punishment".
And now it's Houston's turn...their politicians were also the ones to vote for no financial support for those towns/states seeking Federal support.
Now the "shoe is on Houston's foot." They deserve to be in need of mercy. I actually had tears in my eyes watching some of their flood/rescue stories.
But I sure hope they gain a "Boatload" of humility from their trauma and NEVER judge or ridicule any other "Acts of God" no matter who they people are and/or where the catastrophe is. I hope Houston heals in terms of values, homes, and economics.
And now it's Houston's turn...their politicians were also the ones to vote for no financial support for those towns/states seeking Federal support.
Now the "shoe is on Houston's foot." They deserve to be in need of mercy. I actually had tears in my eyes watching some of their flood/rescue stories.
But I sure hope they gain a "Boatload" of humility from their trauma and NEVER judge or ridicule any other "Acts of God" no matter who they people are and/or where the catastrophe is. I hope Houston heals in terms of values, homes, and economics.
1
Educated, aware people already know who Osteen is. Why is this even news? Osteen another cookie-cutter fake Christian Pastor, collecting the big bucks and doing little in return. No story here.
Why isn't every single public facility, including schools and post offices, that's on high ground open as an overnight shelter? Are all available sports arenas being used?
1
You lost me when you gratuitously threw George Bush in the mix. He may have had his faults, but there has never been a president so self-centered and actually cruel as trump. He truly stands alone in his awfulness. As for osteen, using a faux religion to enrich yourself is beyond contempt. And the really frightening thing is the gullibility of the large number of Americans who support them.
3
My sentiments exactly. I was born without the greed gene nor the gullibility gene, so trying to understand any of these people is like trying to smell the color nine.
1
Impressive logic!
Guys like Osteen prey on the weak, the afflicted, the addicted, and funny enough the poor. Remember that Jesus kicked the money changers out of the temple. Anyone taking money in the name of Jesus, who does not immediately repurpose it for charity, is the worst kind of sinner and evil. Early in life children need to be taught critical thinking skills so they are not taken in by the likes of these "mega" church, mega-millionaires. He is just one of many who live on the donations of many fools.
4
May maybe we should start a Texas relief fund based on donating money based on how many Texans agree not to vote for Cruz
2
One crucial difference between Osteen and Trump, although I hate them both: Osteen can be shamed into doing the right thing.
4
If people who fall for the "prosperity gospel" actually read *The* Gospel, they'd find "A camel shall sooner pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter into the Kingdom of Heaven." The rich (many of them anyway) are indeed "whited sepulchers" -- fair without but containing only rot and decay. Jesus had a knack for metaphor.
1
trump and osteen are similar to Jim and Tammy Baker and their church organization PTL, which stood for Praise the Lord, but which others referred to as Pass the Loot!
3
Elmer Gantry should be on every school's required reading list.
7
Do you remember, in "Catcher In the Rye," Holden Caulfield's aversion to the phrase "Good luck"? He doesn't quite explain what the problem with it is, so I will. It's a kiss-off, said perhaps with the best of intentions but a paltry, self-serving dodge offered to people who frankly could use more tangible assistance.
To give the right wing, who still enjoy answering any shortcoming among their own with the ubiquitous " Yeah, but Clinton," their due, I bet a lot of people facing economic difficulty during the Clinton presidency were less than charmed by his fatuous "I feel your pain."
Talk is cheap. People in trouble need and deserve more than to be sloughed off with some lame catch phrase, especially from leaders in a position to do something about the trouble.
To give the right wing, who still enjoy answering any shortcoming among their own with the ubiquitous " Yeah, but Clinton," their due, I bet a lot of people facing economic difficulty during the Clinton presidency were less than charmed by his fatuous "I feel your pain."
Talk is cheap. People in trouble need and deserve more than to be sloughed off with some lame catch phrase, especially from leaders in a position to do something about the trouble.
1
Keep in mind what Jesus told the young rich man who asked what he lacked if he followed the Jewish law in every way.
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.” The Bible says the young man left in sorrow, because he had great wealth. (Mark 10:21-22)
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.” The Bible says the young man left in sorrow, because he had great wealth. (Mark 10:21-22)
4
There have always been hypocrites and hucksters and charismatic sociopaths. The mystery is why we keep buying into their scams, when Lottery tickets offer such a better return on investment.
12
before the storm hit, Republican political leaders were saying Texas didn't need government help. Texans have got it covered. So be it
5
There are many words that describe such a man. The only printable one that seems most adequate is despicable. What an exemplar for mankind.
2
One can live a moral life without surrendering their financial stability to the pyramid scam known as religion.
5
According to Wikipedia:
"As of 2012, Osteen's net worth is reportedly $56,508,500.[29] He lives with his family in a $10,500,000 home.[30]"
Apparently, he's taking a slight detour on his walk with Jesus.
"As of 2012, Osteen's net worth is reportedly $56,508,500.[29] He lives with his family in a $10,500,000 home.[30]"
Apparently, he's taking a slight detour on his walk with Jesus.
7
First rate. Nothing to do with Christianity. No social justice.
3
Amen! Sister, Amen!
2
Pretty sure Sinclair Lewis covered this in Elmer Gantry.
3
This is the same kind of thinking that they use to rationalize stiffing contractors, or turning a blind eye to beggars on the street. They convince themselves their being scammed. This type of thinking comes in very handy when you want to grab more than your fair share and hoard your riches.
And these people also convince themselves they are good Christians!
And these people also convince themselves they are good Christians!
3
Jesus teaches that God displays His love without discrimination.( Matthew5:45)..He says "..He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Prosperity Gospel is heresy.
2
Mr Osteen is a businessman who has figured out a way to make a buck out of religion. Exposing his hypocrisy is really just stating the obvious.
As Obi Wan said
“Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?”
As Obi Wan said
“Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?”
7
Another phony preacher... what a shock! And Republican hypocrites in Texas. Shocked again!
4
Full disclosure. I am an evangelical Protestant--and I hate to use that phrase. "Evangelical" has become a flawed, shadowy word nowadays.
Do I believe in the Bible as God's inspired, inerrant Word? Absolutely. I am writing this to say. . . .
Nothing--NOTHING! in that Word suggests that we Christians get a free pass on suffering. Not one word! Christ--the"man of sorrows and acquainted with grief"--knew all about human suffering. Pain. Hunger. Thirst. Rejection. Ridicule. All these thing coming together in an awful cacophony of anguish at the Crucifixion.
So right on, Professor Butler. Turn away from those empty tweets. I am ashamed as I read them. No real help. No mercy. No compassion.
Remember Katrina? Of course you do. Down in New Orleans. People from my church went down to help. They built houses. Cleared away fallen timber. Cleaned out basements. Lots of things. They came back to report on what they'd done. AND--what they'd seen. My favorite:
An all-but-obliterated house with a crudely printed sign out front. It said:
"We have NOT lost everything. 'Our life is hid with Christ in God.' "
The quote was from Colossians. Were these real Christians? Absolutely! Were they HURTING Christians? Absolutely. The Lord lets His people hurt sometimes. Hurt badly.
But they were still Christians. Faithful, indomitable Christians. I have known many such in my time.
I will remember that sign till the day I die.
Thanks again, Ms. Butler.
Do I believe in the Bible as God's inspired, inerrant Word? Absolutely. I am writing this to say. . . .
Nothing--NOTHING! in that Word suggests that we Christians get a free pass on suffering. Not one word! Christ--the"man of sorrows and acquainted with grief"--knew all about human suffering. Pain. Hunger. Thirst. Rejection. Ridicule. All these thing coming together in an awful cacophony of anguish at the Crucifixion.
So right on, Professor Butler. Turn away from those empty tweets. I am ashamed as I read them. No real help. No mercy. No compassion.
Remember Katrina? Of course you do. Down in New Orleans. People from my church went down to help. They built houses. Cleared away fallen timber. Cleaned out basements. Lots of things. They came back to report on what they'd done. AND--what they'd seen. My favorite:
An all-but-obliterated house with a crudely printed sign out front. It said:
"We have NOT lost everything. 'Our life is hid with Christ in God.' "
The quote was from Colossians. Were these real Christians? Absolutely! Were they HURTING Christians? Absolutely. The Lord lets His people hurt sometimes. Hurt badly.
But they were still Christians. Faithful, indomitable Christians. I have known many such in my time.
I will remember that sign till the day I die.
Thanks again, Ms. Butler.
4
Evangelicals, prosperity gospels, trump ... worship of mammon, idols of gold. These are the people of the anti-Christ ... the very ones who think they are of Christ.
3
Two con artists selling moonbeams to the gullible.
5
Osteen and Trump are indulged like toddlers whose parents love them so much they can do no wrong, ever. Bad way to raise kids, much worse when the indulged are leaders getting filthy rich based on duping people.
3
Let's tell the unvarnished truth. Joel Osteen is a fraud and a hypocrite who has enriched himself by conning his followers into contributing to his ample coffers. If only we could open the eyes of his acolytes to what Osteen really is.
5
A match made in heaven: a Lame Duck & a Quack!
7
Someone posted this: Take away Osteen's tax exemption and give it to Mattress Mack.
4
There IS a sucker born everyday, and these evangelical preachers prey on them everyday.
2
This could heve been a time for Osteen to easily prove his christian credentials and he failed miserably. Such an easy test to pass. Proves how far he got from the common man...
1
The Jesus and his 12 disciples that Osteen and Trump say they follow were wildly unsuccessful by worldly standards. All but Judas (if you count him) and the Apostle John ended up dead and none died happily in their sleep with the knowledge that they had their wealth protected from egregious estate taxes.
Funny thing, isn't it?
Maybe Harvey IS a message from God after all.
Funny thing, isn't it?
Maybe Harvey IS a message from God after all.
1
Clearly, I did not proofread! I meant to say all the apostles but John ended up dying terrible deaths, including Judas if you count him as an apostle.
Oh darn, I missed being the 666th comment. Osteen and his ilk will have to pass through many eyes of the needle to get to his heaven sent camel.
1
Personally, I'm waiting for Pat Robertson et. al. to weigh on on what Houstonians did to bring God's wrath down on them. It must have been something.
New York suffered the 9-11 attack, according to Robertson and Jerry Falwell because it tolerated gays and abortion rights activists.
Katrina, according to Robertson and John Hagee, wiped out New Orleans to punish that city's flagrant debauchery and immorality.
God visited an earthquake on Haiti, claimed Robertson, because of the pact the Haitians signed with the Devil when they rebelled against France. "True story," he said.
Houstonians may not know what they did wrong, but it must have been big. Fortunately, we have Pat Robertson to clear up the mystery for us.
New York suffered the 9-11 attack, according to Robertson and Jerry Falwell because it tolerated gays and abortion rights activists.
Katrina, according to Robertson and John Hagee, wiped out New Orleans to punish that city's flagrant debauchery and immorality.
God visited an earthquake on Haiti, claimed Robertson, because of the pact the Haitians signed with the Devil when they rebelled against France. "True story," he said.
Houstonians may not know what they did wrong, but it must have been big. Fortunately, we have Pat Robertson to clear up the mystery for us.
3
As far as Osteen goes, I watch him on TV some Sundays. I think he has some good self help advice but as far as I am concerned it has nothing to do with religion. I actually feel sorry for the people that believe if they give him 10% of their wealth God will reward them. They have fallen for a scam that makes him and his palls rich. This subject is a prim example why religion of any kind should be left out of government at all levels. Each one believes they are the "true" one and wants government to make the rest of us follow their teaching.
2
We all know that Osteen's church is only there to shelter him from taxes, not the masses from hurricanes.
The bottom line is these people are selfish to the core, and terrified someone might ask them to be generous. This IS the new religion. Osteen is a perfect example. Religion redefined not as something that helps us be better people by opening hearts and minds, but as justification for these heartless, self-concerned jerks. I'm not a Christian (was baptized, grew up, and left) because the deep truthful core of the religion has been destroyed by these people. What's left has almost no voice in our world, despite what some good people are doing. Francis notwithstanding, the forces of materialism are dominant now.
This is a news story that deserves space in the NY Times and elsewhere. The video of Osteen's Church not offering shelter speaks volumes. I for one would have hoped someone there would have thought to do better. What were they worried about, trashing the place? Seriously?
Houston is a terribly painful mess and will be for a unthinkable period of time. Lives are in ruins and prayers are simply not going to cut it. Charity will be essential. And yes, we so much charity but for this "man of God" to have turned a blind eye, to follow and not lead, is an utter shame.
Houston is a terribly painful mess and will be for a unthinkable period of time. Lives are in ruins and prayers are simply not going to cut it. Charity will be essential. And yes, we so much charity but for this "man of God" to have turned a blind eye, to follow and not lead, is an utter shame.
Link re: "intrepid journalists" is full of petty, mis-spelled, abbreviated sniping. Not very substantial...
The Megachurch is nothing but a money-making tax-exempt machine to enrich Osteen and his family.
It's a racket.
It's a racket.
3
Two charismatic leaders who have gone astray. 12 million dollar mansions and gold plated toilets are not pathways to heaven! When you put money front and center, your charity is watered down.
Can't get away from the guy. They carry him on two channels here and he comes on after the news shows so if your done turn it off or change channel he's there. One Easter morning I was to and left him on. Not once did mention the Resurrection he just kept going on about how the viewer was OK and God was going to take care of us. More like a pop psychologist with God tossed in. Couldn't believe he calls himself a Christian.
He is accepting donations for hurricane relief. Just send the check to him and he'l know where it would do best, in his pocket that is. Like Trump followers tthey'll let him get away with anything.
He is accepting donations for hurricane relief. Just send the check to him and he'l know where it would do best, in his pocket that is. Like Trump followers tthey'll let him get away with anything.
Joel Osteen's prosperity Gospel absolutely works..... for himself!
It got a lot of people to give him money and make him incredibly wealthy.
It got a lot of people to give him money and make him incredibly wealthy.
The prosperity gospel taught by many televangelist preachers who promise their followers health, wealth and prosperity by opening their wallets are, in my opinion, corrupt imposter's hiding behind the Word of God, "fleecing the sheep" all the way to the bank.
White male gods ? How convenient.
2
Two snake oil salesmen who are representative of the worst that the US can produce: Rump and Ostentatious.
I seem to remember Jesus of Nazareth overturning the tables in a synagogue in disgust that the rabbis were profiting from the poor. I guess Mr. Osteen didn't read that chapter. I call him and his ilk Hypochristians.
I always wondered whether God is rich or poor, white or black or brown, serious or jovial or He is just a figment of some con man's imagination. It seems Osteen is bent upon proving that God is racist, rich, white and does not mind lying to. Osteen you preach self reliance, hope and hard work but you are the one who shut the door in face of the people in need. Please get out of your opulence and extravagance, stand in knee deep water with your pet on your shoulder, knock on the door where you supported built the opulence and let me know how you feel. And please have fear of "your god" and stop lying.
I listen to Joel Osteen's lectures often and find that his "power of positive thinking" approach is very effective and helpful to me. He does not use fire and brimstone... he simply states positive affirmations and sprinkles in basic tenents of faith and scripture. He's a great speaker, very funny and entertaining. He is absolutely nothing like the POTUS when he speaks. This is a hatchet job column. Who were the "intrepid journalists " BTW... a Daily News column that was exagerating a tweet? On the advice of Pastor Olsteen I look to avoid toxic sensationalist papers like that one and negative whiny columns like this one. Take the log out of your eye.... maybe you will be able to see better the spec in Pastor Joel's eye. Okay Christian haters....attack...p.s. I voted for her.
Trump at least acknowledges that he presently resides in "the people's house".
Unlike the twisted preacher....
Unlike the twisted preacher....
Two camels totally unaware of the eye of an eagle that just opened.
If i have to choose between faith and science, i choose science...if i have to choose between evolution and creationism, i choose evolution.
These were the absolute best lessons my parents gave me at an early age..the freedom to think critically and openly and not be swayed at an young age by religious forces.
These were the absolute best lessons my parents gave me at an early age..the freedom to think critically and openly and not be swayed at an young age by religious forces.
1
Having to choose between faith and science is a false dichotomy, science informs faith.
The problem with evolution is it has been misinterpreted, misrepresented and misapplied, so much so, that when it is used now it is almost meaningless http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php Evolution is not a universal law.
“Most of evolutionary biology deals with how life changed after its origin. Regardless of how life started, afterwards it branched and diversified, and most studies of evolution are focused on those processes.”
Relying on science is fine, as I said it informs faith, but be vigilant that you have not attributed to science answers it does not have. The Big Bang for instance is either an effect or a miracle, not a first cause.
The problem with evolution is it has been misinterpreted, misrepresented and misapplied, so much so, that when it is used now it is almost meaningless http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php Evolution is not a universal law.
“Most of evolutionary biology deals with how life changed after its origin. Regardless of how life started, afterwards it branched and diversified, and most studies of evolution are focused on those processes.”
Relying on science is fine, as I said it informs faith, but be vigilant that you have not attributed to science answers it does not have. The Big Bang for instance is either an effect or a miracle, not a first cause.
If you Can't make a Buck from your Racket
What Good is it ?
What Good is it ?
1
WWJD
What would Joel do?
What would Joel do?
Jim "Mattress Mack" McIngvale opened up his mattress store to rescuers and displaced families long before it occurred to Joel Osteen. Whatever excuses may be offered, the inescapable fact is that this mattress salesman has a clearer moral compass and is a better Christian than Joel Osteen ever was.
4
Osteen is not a Christian. He is a pretender.
1
Makes you wonder who the real mattress salesman is;)
1
Apparently they both missed the part in the Bible about the difficulty of a rich man getting into heaven.
2
Gee Whiz. Look at Joel in the accompanying photo without all his makeup!
I guess his beauty assistant was caught in the flood.
Poor thing. What a hot mess.
I guess his beauty assistant was caught in the flood.
Poor thing. What a hot mess.
2
"Prosperity Gospel" is an oxymoron. The actual Gospel of Jesus Christ is about loving our neighbors by taking care of them -- especially the "least of these." This claptrap by hucksters such as Joel Osteen which has been sold as "Christianity" for far too long is finally being exposed for what it truly is about -- greed, aggrandizement, and more greed. Remember, Jesus also said "you can't serve both God and money."
2
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Jesus
2
i repeat myself, but the most ostentatiously christian western democracy on the planet is also the most unchristian. however, they continue to attract suckers, er, parishioners by the millions.....
3
More Christian bashing from the NYT's to their ilk. In a time when our nation should be uniting you can always count on the NYT's to give voice to the Christian haters. Has this been a Muslim Center, the silence would be deafening. But it is always open season on Christiins from the venomous left.
2
Speaking of uniting, Steve, where was Mr. Osteen when his city was gasping for air?
He may yammer on about God's love, and money, all he likes, but God also expects some effort from old Joel, or he can count himself off the Christian list.
It's as if the Bible actually was written about the Osteens of the world, as he claims. That rich man getting nowhere near the pearly gates bit seems to fit him to a T. As others have noted here a few dozen times.
He may yammer on about God's love, and money, all he likes, but God also expects some effort from old Joel, or he can count himself off the Christian list.
It's as if the Bible actually was written about the Osteens of the world, as he claims. That rich man getting nowhere near the pearly gates bit seems to fit him to a T. As others have noted here a few dozen times.
@Steve: Nonsense. This is not Christian bashing. This is pointing out some ugly truths about people who claim to have Christian values, and clearly do not.
1
Who are the real Christians? I read that mosques in Houston made plans to open as shelters BEFORE the storm hit and they were used by anyone close by who needed shelter. And when one mosque flooded it was used as a distribution center. Compared to Joel Osteen it seems the Muslim population showed more Christian values than Mr. Osteen.
32
Jesus' Sermon on the Mount must be viewed as a mistake. Otherwise, how to explain Trump and Osteen?
2
MAGA! Prosperity Gospel! Both snake oil salesmen. Scary to think that a percentage of people in this country are so intelligently lazy they fall for these cons. Amazing that in this day and age, with such easy access to knowledge, that people fall for this stuff.
If you're one of these people and if you're reading this (doubtful) let me set you straight...
Trump is a thin skinned, egomaniacal, low info, lying salesman that has never done anything for anyone except himself. He is not going to MAGA... just the opposite.
Osteen is a carnival barker that always brings to mind the old Lenny Bruce quote... "Never trust a preacher with more than two suits". How many suits do you think Osteen has?
If you're one of these people and if you're reading this (doubtful) let me set you straight...
Trump is a thin skinned, egomaniacal, low info, lying salesman that has never done anything for anyone except himself. He is not going to MAGA... just the opposite.
Osteen is a carnival barker that always brings to mind the old Lenny Bruce quote... "Never trust a preacher with more than two suits". How many suits do you think Osteen has?
2
I was raised a VERY REFORM Jew but my family used their Judaism to guide their values, not dictate or to be used as a morals test. In truth, we were taught to do the RIGHT thing BECAUSE it was the right thing to do. Religion or God didn't form our behaviors, just doing the Right thing was the guide.
2
Just as Trump proclaims "Fake news!", Joel Osteen proclaims "Fake Bible!"
Honestly, what kind of God would force poor Joel to let those soggy, nasty people inside a pristine tabernacle like Lakewood Church? Talk about your trials of Job.
Honestly, what kind of God would force poor Joel to let those soggy, nasty people inside a pristine tabernacle like Lakewood Church? Talk about your trials of Job.
1
Jesus, whom Trump and Osteen profess they have accepted as their savior, put it best: woe unto you hypocrites and it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
1
Crazy world we've got here. Imagine trying to explain it to aliens.
Good luck with that. We can't even explain it to ourselves.
Jesus wept.
4
I actually read a couple of Osteen's books back in the day. I was a new Christian and in my new zeal had read through the Bible more than once. I was shocked to discover that I apparently knew more of the Bible than he did. He made a couple rather jaw-dropping mistakes in re-telling some of the Bible stories. That said, If you want to pursue in-depth Biblical knowledge, go elsewhere. But if you're looking for some feel-good motivation to get out of bed every morning, he's your guy. If you take him primarily as a motivational speaker, he's one of the best. As an actual pastor helping you to find your way to God---not so much.
8
The issue isn't so much whether or not his motivational speaking is appealing to some people, or not; nor is it whether or not his bible-based motivational theories are based on sound/correctly interpreted biblical concepts.
The issue is that he uses his tax free pulpit to promote the sales of his books, resulting in potentially millions of dollars of free advertising to his target audience.
While it is impossible to determine how many of his books would sell without his tax free advertising channels, it is not unreasonable to assume that the sales would be a fraction of the number that have sold as a result of the tax free advertising.
The issue is that he uses his tax free pulpit to promote the sales of his books, resulting in potentially millions of dollars of free advertising to his target audience.
While it is impossible to determine how many of his books would sell without his tax free advertising channels, it is not unreasonable to assume that the sales would be a fraction of the number that have sold as a result of the tax free advertising.
We already knew Trump is, at best, a cultural Christian and has no religiousity. And Joel Osteen uses a shell of Christiianity to justify what is nothing more than magical thinking. Conusing orthopraxis (right behavior) with orthodoxy (right belief) he creates a belief in those that if they do the "right" thing (like, give Osteen money), they will receive magical results. Obviously, the Venn diagram overlap of those subject's to Osteen's con and those who voted for Trump's "magic" of MAGA is huge. Stupidity compounds stupidity and selfishness takes a quantum leap. Nature, apparently, does not abhor a moral vacuum.
That rabbit hole goes deep. Google prosperity gospel.
EVERY SECOND THAT BENEDICT ARNOLD AKA CALIGULA IS IN OFFICE DIMINISHES AND DESTROYS US. We all know this grifter completely colluded with Russians, that he is beholden to them, that he, his criminal family and kakistocracy are stealing from us and looting our nation, and yet we can't get rid of this cancerous parasite. Our system is broken. All I can say is when I see anything enabling/benefitting/creating Benedict Arnold's "brand" I rip it up, take it down, deface it, remove it and when possible confront anybody responsible on a personal and stealth level. Everyone who wants to save our nation from this sick and evil creep should do the same, and do whatever you can to the limits of your power or capability.
2
Joel Osteen seemed to have run into a Hindu wall: the Law of Karma!
Bad Publicity. Nothing can undo it.
He's now been outed, nationally even internationally, as a total hypocrite.
KARMA!
Bad Publicity. Nothing can undo it.
He's now been outed, nationally even internationally, as a total hypocrite.
KARMA!
4
A quote from a saint to consdier, for those of the Chritian faith (and really for any faith or no faith at all) about our duty to others:
“Christ has no body now but yours. No hands, no feet on earth but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses all the world. Yours are the hands, yours are the feet, yours are the eyes, you are his body. Christ has no body now on earth but yours.”
― Teresa of Ávila
“Christ has no body now but yours. No hands, no feet on earth but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses all the world. Yours are the hands, yours are the feet, yours are the eyes, you are his body. Christ has no body now on earth but yours.”
― Teresa of Ávila
2
I'll always remember an old lady I met in the mid 1970's who was infatuated with a rising Republican star at the time but was hesitant because he constantly bragged about his piety. She said religious cheats are the worst, as pastors are who fleece their flock to live in mansions and sail in yachts and our newly pious president who brags about stiffing suppliers, molesting women, and ripping off students.
1
Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: “These people come to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.”
5
"Pastor" Osteen will do as Trump did, lie and lie and lie. Osteen will deny that he ever closed his doors to the flood victims, even though he did, and deny that he didn't pay millions to help his fellow church-goers, even though he never will. I do hope the good people of Houston shut down that evil man.
3
The preposterous notion that Joel Osteen is a man of God and his mega arena a 'church" has to make us wonder what America is coming to. Osteen, a profiteer and glorified racketeer, actually makes one yearn for Trump who at least doesn't bring God into his conflicts of interests, swindling and gouging.
4
Pernicious parsimonious pastors and politicians personally profiting from perfidiously promising and preaching prosperity” to the poor. Appalling.
1
The true value of a man shines through or diminishes in times of trouble or despair.
Sounds quite prophetic but its not from the bible, just from my common sense.
Sounds quite prophetic but its not from the bible, just from my common sense.
2
Lord Jesus' soul must be deeply troubled at the materialistic, selfish values of his followers, the so called "Christians". By the way, the current day followers of other religions are not much different.
1
And many of these so-called pastors are among the same folks who have claimed in the past that many disasters, not unlike those inflicted by Hurricane Harvey, are God's retribution for public policies supporting the equality and civil rights of, among other groups, LGBT Americans. Does the name Falwell ring a bell? How interesting that there seems to be no such proclamations of God's wrath by some of these same so-called religious now that conservative Texas is the target of such suffering!
7
I am far from religious - I get pretty uncomfortable in a church service. But I do know there are Christian churches - quite a few in Cincinnati - of many denominations that make it one of their vital missions to do good work, to help victims of catastrophe and injustice, without expecting wealth or souls in exchange. The growth of megachurches such as Osteen's is disturbing, but I keep my outsider faith in those - mostly small and relatively unknown - churches that marshal the belief and good will of some truly good people.
4
Trump, Osteen, and the whole Republican Party are about fooling people into making decisions against their own best interests, so that, practically speaking, they can be all about taking and no giving, all about absolute rule and extreme social stratification.
3
Christianity, like all religions that focus on the afterlife and a powerful god, gives people a pass. Sure, this is awful but "God has his plan. It was God's will" etc, etc. Atheists know that there is no one out there to give help to or get help from but other people and this is the only go-round we get for a chance at a decent life. So, let's pitch in and make the world a better place, fellow atheists.
7
One of the authors deeply held beliefs is that the exegesis of Evangelicalism is “WHITENESS.” (In her own words: https://vimeo.com/118501421 )
Per Prof Butler, WHITENESS (not racism) is ubiquitous and inexorably identified in Evangelicalism: Evangelicalism is ipso facto whiteness. She goes on to posit that if POC do not become homogenized that they are not deemed Evangelicals. (Butler also posits that Evangelicalism is Republican & Evangelical Seminaries-her alma mater-cannot foster feminism.) Butler hears an Evangelical call “to be one race” not as a human race, but as to be white. While she says Whiteness in Evangelicalism is not racist, she takes care to mention a black man depicted as an ape in 1900 amid other examples of whiteness.
Once you understand how Butler’s cosmological prism bends her reality, it is clear that this article is really about white male Republicans “morally bankrupt soul[s]”
Butler seems to be oblivious to The Prosperity Gospel’s strong appeal to POC; moreover, Osteen and POTUS’ media presence follows from televangelical genesis of the Rev. Ike & the United Church Science of Living Institute https://nyti.ms/2l0ruYV The Prosperity Gospel continues today in communities of color with Creflo Dollar & T. D. Jakes. Why? Church Culture (see Joe Carter TGC 9.1.2015).
This piece is part of her effort to rewrite the history of Evangelicalism as that of the crypto-racism of white male Republicans.
Some homework for Prof. Butler: https://youtu.be/pl4WevY-GPU
Per Prof Butler, WHITENESS (not racism) is ubiquitous and inexorably identified in Evangelicalism: Evangelicalism is ipso facto whiteness. She goes on to posit that if POC do not become homogenized that they are not deemed Evangelicals. (Butler also posits that Evangelicalism is Republican & Evangelical Seminaries-her alma mater-cannot foster feminism.) Butler hears an Evangelical call “to be one race” not as a human race, but as to be white. While she says Whiteness in Evangelicalism is not racist, she takes care to mention a black man depicted as an ape in 1900 amid other examples of whiteness.
Once you understand how Butler’s cosmological prism bends her reality, it is clear that this article is really about white male Republicans “morally bankrupt soul[s]”
Butler seems to be oblivious to The Prosperity Gospel’s strong appeal to POC; moreover, Osteen and POTUS’ media presence follows from televangelical genesis of the Rev. Ike & the United Church Science of Living Institute https://nyti.ms/2l0ruYV The Prosperity Gospel continues today in communities of color with Creflo Dollar & T. D. Jakes. Why? Church Culture (see Joe Carter TGC 9.1.2015).
This piece is part of her effort to rewrite the history of Evangelicalism as that of the crypto-racism of white male Republicans.
Some homework for Prof. Butler: https://youtu.be/pl4WevY-GPU
1
If Jesus was born in Bethlehem (or Nazareth), he would have been a lovely shade of dark brown. Not the six-foot-tall white blond depicted in religious art.
1
Let's face it,Trump and Osteen are Pseudo Christians. Like the pastor who picks a sermon and then searches the scriptures for words that fit his ideas. Trump of course might have a problem finding a bible and Osteen might discover he left his in one of his dozen automobiles.
2
Churches have often confused lavish display for gospel mission. Osteem is no exception but a particularly conspicuous current version of personal greed. Yes, it's time to call him on his pretensions. But, in the larger sense, isn't this the brand of our administration in Washington today? We're in a society today that, as Oscar Wilde put it so well, "knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing." The point has been made that in times of such disasters we all become socialists. In other words, people are happy to get a hand-out themselves but begrudge a sustaining system for those less fortunate. The gospel of prosperity resounds though our evangelizing communities. How this can change is anyone's guess, but showing the absurdities such as this one with Joel Osteem is certainly a step in the right direction
2
To be fair, what Osteen usually shelters in that mega-church is tax free money.
Trump and Osteen are very similar. They both embody the selfish, "greed is good" ethos that has been poisoning our nation for decades. One, with a brash, gold-plated lifestyle who slaps his name on anything that will hold still long enough. The other, who flies around on private jets, lives in a mansion, and has built for himself what is likely the most ostentatious "church" in America.
This worship of greed and materialism in both religious and secular arenas has coarsened our humanity. It allows both political and religious leaders to heap scorn upon the downtrodden and unfortunate, and abandon any pretense of compassion. They're so concerned with losing "theirs" that they lose all sense of empathy. In a revolting turn of irony, these are often the first individuals to strike judgmental, "moral" postures.
In short, both men are charlatans. If we do care about the well-being of our fellow citizens and human beings we should work to expand social programs to lift people out of poverty, enact universal single-payer healthcare for the well being of all Americans, expand educational opportunities, and take climate change seriously and work to heal our environment. These things would be more beneficial than Tweets about "prayers" and leaders who hoard all they can take.
Trump and Osteen are very similar. They both embody the selfish, "greed is good" ethos that has been poisoning our nation for decades. One, with a brash, gold-plated lifestyle who slaps his name on anything that will hold still long enough. The other, who flies around on private jets, lives in a mansion, and has built for himself what is likely the most ostentatious "church" in America.
This worship of greed and materialism in both religious and secular arenas has coarsened our humanity. It allows both political and religious leaders to heap scorn upon the downtrodden and unfortunate, and abandon any pretense of compassion. They're so concerned with losing "theirs" that they lose all sense of empathy. In a revolting turn of irony, these are often the first individuals to strike judgmental, "moral" postures.
In short, both men are charlatans. If we do care about the well-being of our fellow citizens and human beings we should work to expand social programs to lift people out of poverty, enact universal single-payer healthcare for the well being of all Americans, expand educational opportunities, and take climate change seriously and work to heal our environment. These things would be more beneficial than Tweets about "prayers" and leaders who hoard all they can take.
6
The simplest antidote to men like Trump and Osteen is to speak out with one word to describe so many of their actions: evil. As the quote attributed to Edmund Burke puts it, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." A tiny minority of courageous Christians across denominations are willing to name these evils. Unfortunately, the vast majority of decent Christians in America fail us by remaining silent — doing nothing, refusing to publicly name the evils that exist in the ranks of people in their own religions. This is the moral weakness that allows "Christians" the likes of Trump, Osteen and their “Christian” followers to flourish. They are the modern money changers who need to be cleansed from the temple.
1
The question is if Texas does get federal disaster aid, will Senator Cruz direct some of that to repair the damage the floods ostensibly did to Mr. Osteen’s megachurch?
In any case, money will never be able to repair the moral void Hurricane Harvey left behind in that largest of Houston’s places of worship with the smallest of hearts.
Maybe, Mr. Osteen should take a lesson from Mattress Mack, who immediately opened up his two furniture stores in Houston to serve as temporary shelters and let flood victims sleep on his mattresses.
Maybe the next time President Trump visits a federal disaster site, he might want to be less concerned about the size of the crowd that turned out to see him and at least express some words of empathy to the victims of the disaster, even if cannot get his shoes wet?
So I used to believe in “as you sow so shall you reap,” then Donald Trump became president.
And, I used to believe in justice, then Jim Comey got fired and Joe Arpaio got pardoned.
Nonetheless, I still believe in karma, but if Mueller gets fired all bets are off!
In any case, money will never be able to repair the moral void Hurricane Harvey left behind in that largest of Houston’s places of worship with the smallest of hearts.
Maybe, Mr. Osteen should take a lesson from Mattress Mack, who immediately opened up his two furniture stores in Houston to serve as temporary shelters and let flood victims sleep on his mattresses.
Maybe the next time President Trump visits a federal disaster site, he might want to be less concerned about the size of the crowd that turned out to see him and at least express some words of empathy to the victims of the disaster, even if cannot get his shoes wet?
So I used to believe in “as you sow so shall you reap,” then Donald Trump became president.
And, I used to believe in justice, then Jim Comey got fired and Joe Arpaio got pardoned.
Nonetheless, I still believe in karma, but if Mueller gets fired all bets are off!
5
So these "'Christians" believe that poverty is an indication of the lack of god's favor. Apparently Osteen takes it a step farther; a natural disaster it a sign of god's wrath and those affected by it "deserve" it. And therefore don't need assistance from the godly (prosperous) people.
1
This is yet another ill-conceived 'Times' opinion piece, trying to connect two people who otherwise have nothing to do with another except the author's dislike of them both, along with another thing not favored by the writer, the so-called "prosperity gospel", and the disaster in Texas. It does serve as an excellent demonstration of how the left politicizes natural disasters to promote their views, but the ridiculous conclusion that the aforementioned gospel has somehow damaged America vastly overstates its effect, and ignores the natural conservatism of the Republicans, whether or not one agree with it. This article does nothing but underline the continued decline of the 'Times' opinion section from its formerly great days to what one might see on unprofessional partisan blogs.
2
A classic tactic. You can't argue with the factual basis of the article or the obvious evidence of greed and self aggrandizement on the part of Trump and Osteen, so you attack the messenger. There are plenty of conservatives who espouse and live by Christian values, but these two are certainly not one of those. If nothing else, they are united by their hypocrisy.
1
Harsh accusations based on hollow assumptions.
Prosperity Gospel is an insidious rationalization for cruelty and lack of empathy. It preaches that God has rewarded the Wealthy, and conversely, is punishing the Poor, presumably for their impious behavior. So not only does it justify poverty, it suggests that giving time or money (or taxes) to help the poor is actually irreligious; contradicting God's will.
Maybe, more accurately, Prosperity Gospel is evil.
Maybe, more accurately, Prosperity Gospel is evil.
4
Eventually, evil destroys itself and truth is revealed.
2
Joel Osteen is a modern day Elmer Gantry ( written by Sinclair Lewis) who said “He had learned how to assemble Jewish texts, Greek philosophy, and Middle-Western evangelistic anecdotes into a sermon. And he had learned that poverty was blessed, but that bankers make the best deacons.”
2
The Bible is similar to trump in that you can find support for whatever your own beliefs are in something they've said in the past, no matter what your opinion.
I used to be Christian, then I witnessed the company that put me in and am now just happy being a good person.
I used to be Christian, then I witnessed the company that put me in and am now just happy being a good person.
2
Osteen doesn't have parishioners. He has customers.
6
Judge people by their actions, not their words.
There is nothing genuinely "religious" about Trump, Osteen, and a lot of others, who are merely after self-adulation, fame, and other people's money and use religion as a cover to exploit.
A simple test:
Many truly religious people follow the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Trump, Osteen, and other religious fakers follow their own Rule of Gold: Do unto others.
There is nothing genuinely "religious" about Trump, Osteen, and a lot of others, who are merely after self-adulation, fame, and other people's money and use religion as a cover to exploit.
A simple test:
Many truly religious people follow the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Trump, Osteen, and other religious fakers follow their own Rule of Gold: Do unto others.
2
I'm a Houston resident--proudly. My Lutheran church ( a more liberal congregation than most) has been in constant contact via email & FB postings. As has our Bishop. Arranging cleanup for our church grounds . Letting us know who is safe, who needs help. How to help. Pastor Duane even emailed out a service to use during the storm to worship in our homes. The ELCA branch of the Lutheran church has always worked diligently on behalf of the refugee, the frail, the hungry & the forgotten. (And we acknowledge the sins of our German cousins who did not stand up to a dictator). Thanks for exposing Trump & Osteen. No promises of riches in the Gospel---just our daily Bread. And a reminder that whenever we help the weak, if is the same as helping Jesus Christ.
23
Thank you
Has Pat Robertson provided God's rationale for inflicting Houston with this flood? He belongs in league with Osteen ("God's got this") and Trump. Everything's 'ordained by God' so if disaster strikes and you desperately need help, you don't deserve it.
11
Both men seem to have a medieval idea of how God works - if bad things happen to you it must be because of something you or your family did and you are being punished. The New Testament I grew up with says we must care for the least among us ...... perhaps the wealthy Osteen and the bombastic Trump could each order new copies of it and actually read it! Maybe they would learn something....
3
Joel Osteen, who claims to be a man of God, is the vile money-changer that Jesus drove from the temple. He had to be shamed into helping. Look at the contrast with Houston furniture store owner Jim McIngvale who immediately opened his stores to all as shelters, and even used his trucks to go pick up drowning people. Which of these is truly doing the Lord's work?
12
Unlike Obamacare, no one is forced to attend Osteen's church.
2
Unlike Ostend's church, everyone is forced to pay for the health care for people who don't have health insurance.
Most Americans are on their employer's health care or Medicare. Obamacare (Romneycare) was designed by the Heritage Foundation as the conservative answer to fixing healthcare in America. It only became a bad thing when a black Democrat thought it was a good idea.
2
And unlike Obamacare, most people can see a con job in preaching for money....
They're just a couple of morally bankrupt $6,000 suits.
11
Leading from behind..
2
I'm so glad this Evangelical con man is getting his comeuppance. Jesus said to cast aside all wealth to love your neighbor. I ask these phoney to just cast aside a little. Nope. Won't happen
9
Mr. Osteen and his ilk are all business and pursuit of wealth by collecting from other people. They have nothing to do with faith. They have commercialized religion and merchandised Jesus shamelessly.
6
Bet there's plenty of extra room in Osteen's $10 million home. A Christian would open that to the homeless.
8
Yes he could open his home, but have you?
1
No. I'm not able for many reasons and my home is a cheap one-bedroom apartment. However, I do dontate.
I'd like to know if Trump or Osteen pay net income taxes. Bet they don't.
8
Anthea, why are you the judge of these folks? Let God be the judge here. The Good Lord knows these folks and their intension better than any human can and will ever do. If anything, look on the inside of thy heart and see how the glory of our Lord will take root. If anything, thank God for his mercy and grace.
1
Joe, (if you are a person not a robot) I want to thank you for your comments and inner thoughts on gods intentions. If you happen to need any more deep wisdoms to share you may refer to http://wisdomofchopra.com/
I'm old enough to remember a generation of working people who could discuss the Bible at length, and who had memorized scores of verses that helped them live their lives. They actually read the Bible daily. They had little, but would help anyone who needed it. Their churches often had leaky roofs, worn pews, and Bibles worn from decades of use. They never bragged about being Christians (or anything else). If that were what Christianity were like today, maybe more people would be interested. I stopped being a Christian when joining a church became more like joining the Country Club.
6
If the NY Times could blame the hurricane on the president they would. President Trump made his money the old fashioned way: he earned it. It is a fallacy to report he inherited billions when it was a few million he turned into multi millions. Too bad so many are so hateful and jealous; the left, the real haters in this country.
2
The Trump family made it's fortune from government subsidies, tax abatements, bankruptcies and lawsuits. That may fit your definition of earning it, but to me it's corporate welfare plain and simple.
1
No, honey, Trump did not earn his money himself. Perhaps you should do some research about the actual method he used to gain his supposed wealth. He started with $14 dollars from his dad, then ripped off workers just like you, refusing to pay what was owed to them, and paying pennies of the actual debt. https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-father-helped-gop-candidate-with-num...
http://fortune.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-stiff-contractors/
And yes, I hate him, just like I hate any abusive narcissist who is a sexual predator. The question is, why don't you?
http://fortune.com/2016/09/30/donald-trump-stiff-contractors/
And yes, I hate him, just like I hate any abusive narcissist who is a sexual predator. The question is, why don't you?
1
You might want to check your facts, and how much Trump inherited when his father died.
How can a man like Osteen who has spent his entire life studying from, reading from, and preaching from the bible miss one of its essential messages of being your brothers keepers? The answer is, he hasn't. Like Trump he is a depraved con man. What a contrast to see all those Texans come to the aid of their fellow citizens in time of need, while Osteen closes his Trump Tower golden church to the public.
In the age of Trump, false prophets are being exposed everyday in both religion and politics. The hypocrisy is nauseating and overwhelming.
In the age of Trump, false prophets are being exposed everyday in both religion and politics. The hypocrisy is nauseating and overwhelming.
26
A point to make...Osteen is not a graduate of any seminary or school of divinity. He studied radio & tv communication at Oral Roberts but did not complete his degree. He does not have the depth of theological knowledge of ordained priests, mainline Protestant ministers, etc.
Joel Osteen is just as phony as Trump, and maybe a bit worse; charlatanism in the name of the Lord.
Maybe the time has come to start taxing megachurches.
Maybe the time has come to start taxing megachurches.
9
It always amazes me that people are attracted to these evangelical preachers. What is the attraction? It has been shown many times that they are charlatans who are stealing money from the most vulnerable people. These are the very people who voted for the biggest charlatan of them all, Donald J. Trump.
6
Instead of giving hard earned money to Osteem to preach the prosperity doctrine, invest in real estate situated above projected sea levels.
6
While the entire world is focused on Houston, Bangladesh and adjoining states of India with little or no infrastructure have been inundated with rains and more than 2000 persons have lost their lives.
A small Sikh temple in Mumbai is sheltering and feeding almost 750 people who were stranded in flood waters.
The Sikh Gurdwaras around the world must have a free kitchen to feed any when who shows up. At Harmandir Sahib, popularly known as Golden Temple, almost 100,000 persons, irrespective of cast creed race religion or nationality are fed free EVERY SINGLE DAY The amazing thing about this miracle is that it is entirely contributed, and run by volunteers who follow the message of their founder Guru Nanak who spoke out forcefully against hypocrisy of the corrupt rulers and priestly class.
Pilgrimages, penances and ritual giving
In themselves, carry no weight
Not even that of a grain of mustard seed
The true path to God lies in the service of our fellow beings.
Sikh scripture Guru Granth Sahib
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/french-tourist-family-says-thank-you-...
A small Sikh temple in Mumbai is sheltering and feeding almost 750 people who were stranded in flood waters.
The Sikh Gurdwaras around the world must have a free kitchen to feed any when who shows up. At Harmandir Sahib, popularly known as Golden Temple, almost 100,000 persons, irrespective of cast creed race religion or nationality are fed free EVERY SINGLE DAY The amazing thing about this miracle is that it is entirely contributed, and run by volunteers who follow the message of their founder Guru Nanak who spoke out forcefully against hypocrisy of the corrupt rulers and priestly class.
Pilgrimages, penances and ritual giving
In themselves, carry no weight
Not even that of a grain of mustard seed
The true path to God lies in the service of our fellow beings.
Sikh scripture Guru Granth Sahib
https://www.wionews.com/india-news/french-tourist-family-says-thank-you-...
7
I have no certitude about the inner state of Joel Osteen, or President Trump for that matter. We are still in an ongoing crisis, so let's see whether Trump's actions prove effective & helpful in assisting the people in TX & LA before castigating him.
And, an alternative, nuanced view of Osteen's response to the Houston tragedy can be found at:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/29/why_the_outrage_about_...
And, an alternative, nuanced view of Osteen's response to the Houston tragedy can be found at:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/29/why_the_outrage_about_...
Two super rich tax evading charlatans who prey on the weak minded for personal gain...
13
This charlatan is the biggest faker I've seen in a while. He prays on the weak minded and has gotten obscenely wealthy doing so.
People who have understood and manufactured religion through the decades, nay, centuries have been able to control the masses and keep them subservient.
People who have understood and manufactured religion through the decades, nay, centuries have been able to control the masses and keep them subservient.
4
Wow, "he preys on the weak minded" Talk about religious bigotry. Can you imagine if Chris Matthews said an Iman "preys on the weak minded" referring to a Muslim group! He would be fired immediately and charged w a hate crime. And rightfully so, but since the comment from Crossing Overhead was directed toward Christians, it's ok.
Trump and Osteen: Bookends of Hucksterism.
8
Joel Osteen is a despicable man. He is the likes of Jim Baker, Bishop Long and a whole slew of fake preachers whose only purpose in life is to enrich themselves at the expense of their flocks. What a bunch of crooks! There is absolutely nothing spiritual or ethical about their teaching or behavior. I despise people like him and his likes.
7
Hey man, they're "makers" and "takers" in this land of ours according to our Ayn Rand disciple Speaker Paul Ryan.
Now the takers, these are the folks who couldn't just drive or fly away from Houston when Noah's flood returned, they aren't on good Joel's radar; not part of his ministry demographic.
These are the folks who lost their homes, their possessions and their jobs who will need housing, food and money for a long time.
These are the folks who live pay check to pay check and can't afford to pay into Joel's Prosperity Gospel Ponzi scheme of paying him so God will make them rich and healthy.
Why would Joel want to let people like that into Lakewood Church, the great monument to himself?
It's cliche that great moments of challenge make great men greater and little men smaller.
Congrats Joel you've sealed your legacy.
"Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of these my brethren,
ye have done it unto me."
Matthew
Now the takers, these are the folks who couldn't just drive or fly away from Houston when Noah's flood returned, they aren't on good Joel's radar; not part of his ministry demographic.
These are the folks who lost their homes, their possessions and their jobs who will need housing, food and money for a long time.
These are the folks who live pay check to pay check and can't afford to pay into Joel's Prosperity Gospel Ponzi scheme of paying him so God will make them rich and healthy.
Why would Joel want to let people like that into Lakewood Church, the great monument to himself?
It's cliche that great moments of challenge make great men greater and little men smaller.
Congrats Joel you've sealed your legacy.
"Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of these my brethren,
ye have done it unto me."
Matthew
7
His church is as hollow and empty as the gospel he preaches. The true character of a person is ultimately show by the deeds which are performed without recognition or an expected donation. Joel fly's in the same jet-stream of DJT when it comes to fleecing his flock or in DJT's case constituents.
3
"Religion does three things quite effectively. Controls people. Deludes peoples. Divides people." ~ Carlespie Mary Alice McKinney
5
This piece eloquently puts what has been obvious for my entire life: Republicans have an empathy problem.
6
If tweeting "prayers" from the comfort of his multi-million dollar home (and lying about the flood conditions around his megachurch) isn't enough to snap Mr. Osteen's drenched parishioners out of their prosperity gospel trance, then there really is a fool born every minute.
5
When I look at Osteen's smarmy face, all I see is a huckster, out to make a fortune on the backs of the gullible. Both he and tRump seem entirely incapable of true compassion. It's all a show, designed for their own self-promotion. As for "God's got this" -- what a pathetic way to pass the buck. Humans either help other humans in dire situations, or they don't. The victims of this storm don't need prayers -- they need shelter, dry clothes, food, and medical care -- which only other humans can provide or deny.
8
Donald and Joel: Flim and Flam.
5
I'm also saddened when I see people returning to Osteen and his message even as their loved ones perished while they prayed as hard as they could. Do people think the police officer who was tragically killed when he was on his way to help those in need wasn't prayed for? And then we hear the horrible story of the 3 year old girl who clung to her mother as her mother said her prayers but drowned anyway while the girl survived. I then heard someone thanking God for saving the little girl. What do we say to this God as to why her mother wasn't so lucky? There is always the "out" for those who will go back to visit Osteen. God works in strange and mysterious ways. I'm just not buying into it.