There must be someone who can explain to me why this or any other restaurant refuses to print prices on their online menus.
8
Since ingredients are bought fresh, the chefs do not know what the costs will be when the menu is put online. This gives them the ability to change prices as needed.
7
There is formal French table-side service (that the French use to call Russian service), and then there is the Torrisi-Carbone version of table-side service that is apparently making a comeback. These obsequious (in a good way), flamboyant machinations fit Las Vegas like a Wayne Newton leisure suit. (Our top end joints: Robuchon/Guy Savoy/Carnevino) are full of rolling carts every night of the week, and filleting the fish at your table has even seeped into some local eateries.) Whether the T-C influence spreads to beyond their restaurant universe in New York (and elsewhere) remains to be seen, but the formality can't make a comeback fast enough for this aging boomer. Watching something sauced and served at table used to be the height of big deal dining, and it's high time we got back to it, at least in the rarefied air of top-shelf restaurants. Release the gueridons, I say!
John Curtas
EATING LAS VEGAS
[email protected]
John Curtas
EATING LAS VEGAS
[email protected]
6
Can you imagine the pearl clutching and brow mopping at The Times - and elsewhere - if a dish was accompanied by a story about "Donald's Pie"?
2
Well, all I know is that chills ran up and down my spine upon entering this roomfull of memories. There are certain advantages, you see, in being a war baby boomer at 1947, as it's like entering a wonderful part of my past to be, well, home again. I was a major hanger-oner with the folks of the Four Seasons. Then I had the crab cakes under the potato coins and felt avenged. Wonderful is all I can say.
5
Thank you, can't wait dine there again after 30 years. One of the most memorable things to me in addition to the food was the lighting; in the Pool Room the pinpoint spots gave your table a glow at about 50 foot-candles and then the light fell off between the tightly packed tables. Magnificent.
7
Mr Wells, you had me at: James Beard, rolling trolleys, Jacqueline Kennedy, the martini, John Cage, club sandwiches, Joe Baum, continental cuisine, Delmonico’s, green goddess dressing, Craig Claiborne and Catalina sauce.
8
First off it's no longer the Four Seasons which was always first rate in all aspects of their offering. Thus the Grill need to stand up on it's own and it has many exemplary competitors to prove itself. Overpriced entrees are not new and diners aren't fools. TO those referencing Disney in derogatory ways should take notice that at Disney World's properties, 450 of their dining establishments are 50 high end restaurants that easily can trounce the Grill's offering and many other top restaurants around town for much less $$.
1
On entering the Four Seasons, I thought The Powerful Grill looked like a K.G.B. Cafeteria. Then onto the Pool Room where I ordered a steak tartare, which arrived on the largest white plate, a generous raw hamburger patty fit for a St. Bernard.
In all fairness this was a long time ago, when big business deals and mergers were taking place on Wall Street at the Grill. The Pool Room was for good company, fair, and where you took your son in his best bib and tucker on the occasion of his graduation. All to say in memory of times past, I now understand why my boss felt it was a treat to have a pastrami sandwich and a beer in his solitary office for his birthday lunch.
A decade ago, a friend called from the international community, sounding slightly distraught, having been to the '4S' the previous evening and feeling the lightness of her pocket in the morning after. I wish she had told me before, and explained that it was for special occasions and made some of us feel rosy to tell others that we have stepped out in style on the town.
Now before my goose gets cooked, I hasten to add that this new version of The Grill looks splendid, the lighting is much improved, I would demolish the beef in the photo in a flash and not ask for a doggie bag. This gourmande would also be brave enough to try the 'supernaturally' tender duck.
Bon Appetit! Forwarding this menu review to a friend in Paris who just called and wanted to know what the Rich eat.
In all fairness this was a long time ago, when big business deals and mergers were taking place on Wall Street at the Grill. The Pool Room was for good company, fair, and where you took your son in his best bib and tucker on the occasion of his graduation. All to say in memory of times past, I now understand why my boss felt it was a treat to have a pastrami sandwich and a beer in his solitary office for his birthday lunch.
A decade ago, a friend called from the international community, sounding slightly distraught, having been to the '4S' the previous evening and feeling the lightness of her pocket in the morning after. I wish she had told me before, and explained that it was for special occasions and made some of us feel rosy to tell others that we have stepped out in style on the town.
Now before my goose gets cooked, I hasten to add that this new version of The Grill looks splendid, the lighting is much improved, I would demolish the beef in the photo in a flash and not ask for a doggie bag. This gourmande would also be brave enough to try the 'supernaturally' tender duck.
Bon Appetit! Forwarding this menu review to a friend in Paris who just called and wanted to know what the Rich eat.
4
A fascinating reminder of how "taste" - both literal and figurative - is individual, arbitrary, and often determined by taste-makers. I saw nothing which I would want to eat (other than, perhaps, the desserts), and much that I would actively avoid. But, chacun à son goût. Enjoy.
4
No broodingly dark crab gumbo?
8
:))
1
One of the many reasons I subscribe, yes I was salivating, memory lane also, I ran a restaurant similar in style, great read
7
Nicely put about the fantasy of the Four Seasons. Went to the old Four Seasons periodically back in the day (Pool Room, hardly the VIP just an AWCP -Able to Write the Check Person which in the Grill Room back then got you a table in the upper bleachers -though we would take drinks at the bar beforehand). Bailed on it several years before Mr. Wells' last meal in '13 as it had deteriorated noticeably getting by solely on the old reputation. While Mr. Wells description of memorable dishes piques my interest to return and I do especially love Guinea Hen and Duck, dinner service as theater does not appeal to me -pas à tous. My experiences at the trois étoiles in Paris does not suggest this breathes new life into the formal French-derived dining style but rather infuses it with Vegas style kitsch.
3
I recently went for dinner in July, and the dining room was painfully loud -- and very dark. The food was very very good, though. The bar should be noted as a good destination in itself. While no longer as clubby as the old FS bar, it has significantly more glamour -- at least once the guys in fleece catch the train back to Greenwich,
The old Four Seasons magic remains at lunchtime, however, when the atmosphere of very expensive calm still reigns. With Steve Schwarzman and Hank Greenberg at the banquette across the room, it felt like nothing had changed when I was there this week.
The old Four Seasons magic remains at lunchtime, however, when the atmosphere of very expensive calm still reigns. With Steve Schwarzman and Hank Greenberg at the banquette across the room, it felt like nothing had changed when I was there this week.
11
Major Food Group is an emperor without clothes. "New Yorky", sure, in the way EPCOT Disney or the Warner Brothers sound stages are "New Yorky". Blech. The original Four Seasons is being replaced with a Disneyfied ripoff version of its former self in much the same way Manhattan has been replaced. I'll leave this one to the tourists. If it lasts 18 months, I'd be surprised.
12
Yep, spot on, but sadly the old Four Seasons was awful. Or rather wonderful for the plutocrats and awful for anyone else. So there was nowhere to go but up. The only really "New Yorky" thing about the place is the place itself. Supremely New Yorky.
4
We dined at the Gril shortly after it opened and loved every piece of glitz, glamour decor and food. The way the hostesses dressed in cool gray dresses greet and seat you, the flourishes of our waiter. It was like being at Jay Gatsby's dinner party with great food, drinks and beautiful,people (except for one shlump) Every person Working there was excited to be there and share all the information of it's history and renovation. All the new restaurant in ny are small, casual; butcher your own meat etc (King's)and wonderful but every now and then dressing up and really going out is fun and glamorous. I had the most gorgeous dish; delicious scallop wrapped in pastry. The waiter opened the pastry, poured snail ragout on top; you dipped pastry into the sauce! OMG! Genius fabulousness. I hope they establish a dress code as coming in looking like a sloppy tourist ruins the atmosphere. The pool room bar is stunning. Cocktails superb and yes it is expensive. I am definitely going back. We need a good party place in ny like this.
18
@Zeldie: I read your entire comment, and my reaction to eating there is: UGH! Just remember how Gatsby ended up.
10
Gatsby is fiction, L.
9
No mention of no mention of wine once again. An important part of fine dining.
7
"No mention of no mention of wine once again." (sic)
I quote from the review, in the "Drinks and Wine" section:
"The wine list adroitly spans the gap between trophy hunters and value seekers."
While it may not provide the level of detail you prefer, claiming the review makes no mention of wine is clearly incorrect.
I quote from the review, in the "Drinks and Wine" section:
"The wine list adroitly spans the gap between trophy hunters and value seekers."
While it may not provide the level of detail you prefer, claiming the review makes no mention of wine is clearly incorrect.
10
This is not a rhetorical question; Is there a restaurant critic anywhere in the world that comments authoritatively on wine in their restaurant reviews?
1
Enjoyed Dom by the glass at the bar recently.
5
This new version sounds so cheesy and try-hard-y, exchanging a clubby, lovely experience for something "confident, theatrical, retro, unsentimental, [and] sharp." I enjoyed the original tasting menu at Italian Specialties for what it was, but Carbone is a sad Disney act, and it's a shame the same players are getting the opportunity to now spoil the Four Seasons.
11
Surprised at 3 stars after that review. It read more like they need a wake-up slap of 1 or 2. Especially at those prices.
15
Hypothetically, what if the eatery kept its name, paying homage to the historical beginnings of the building? Does it get boycotted by the liberal, economic elites of the city? Probably. Despite the monarchist implications of the name, I think I'll go Burger King tonight.
5
The restaurant could not keep the name Four Seasons, as the owners of the previous restaurant apparently intend to use it in a new location.
8
I worked for these gentlemen at Torrisi when it first opened. Around that time Mario talked about his vision for a restaurant just like this. To me what they've done is remarkable.
7
I am sure when I get back to New York, there will be more compelling reasons to go out to eat in more compelling places than The Grill. I can't decide if it would have been more impressive had they put an 'e' on the end of their name -- what do you think.
In related news, I have been told that lately dinner at La Grenouille is upwards of $400 for two.
Maybe I will just stay out here and go down to Los Angeles once in a while, where lately I've had terrific Peruvian food at Rosaline, and of course, sushi just about all the time?
In related news, I have been told that lately dinner at La Grenouille is upwards of $400 for two.
Maybe I will just stay out here and go down to Los Angeles once in a while, where lately I've had terrific Peruvian food at Rosaline, and of course, sushi just about all the time?
5
"a corporate monument that gives back to the public"??
How? Only if you can afford it?
Pretentious as always, so of course 3 stars
How? Only if you can afford it?
Pretentious as always, so of course 3 stars
8
All that jokiness sounds more Dallasy than New Yorky.
11
Of course, no New Yorker would ever call anything "New Yorky". This place is about as New Yorky as an airport deli in Tuscon.
4
Theatre, perhaps, but it was so referential, we felt we were actors in a docudrama about dining at the Four Seasons. These two guys are so phenomenally talented and imaginative, I was hoping for spirited meal like their original hole-in-the-wall used to serve--instead it was a self-conscious nod to the Four Seasons of the past, in a grill room transformed from its studied elitism with those black leather banquets to a kind of steak house with lots of white clothed tables and bustling waiters and we had prime viewing seats on the balcony. Because we all loved the space and seemed to celebrate so many milestones there, it was good to see it refurbished and restored but after that taste of nostalgia, I'll need their originality and refreshing combinations to convert me to a diner. The roast beef was really good the next day and there's nothing more satisfying than a tasty bone in private but there are too many other good restaurants with talented chefs to move this beyond a curiosity to a destination place. Sometimes, the past can be intimidating. I hope it isn't here.
8
By the way, is it lemon chiffon pie or cake that deserves plaudits? Review says "cake." Recommended dishes says "pie." Inquiring minds want to know.
9
They must be embarrassed by the prices. They don't show them on their website menu.
4
Those prices are for people who don't care ,or need to...
6
no prices on the site...? that too is a nod to the tried and true, "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". i'm good w. staying out.
9
There are restaurants The Times labels expensive and others VERY expensive. Some restaurants that most Times readers can't afford and other most Times readers should not even think about. Welcome to The Grill if you are one of the VERY few !
3
Brass gilt coasters initialed with a big "G" a Trumpian touch...genius comment Mr Wells. Napkins embroidered in gold thread...another note of genius. Visiting a Frank Lloyd Wright house furnished by IKEA...you got me Mr Wells. Now a visit is imperative before the revels are ended by a giant crash...and I don't mean pots..
10
Wonderful photos of the dishes! A dry martini with three olives on a toothpick beats just about everything! Well, if one goes to dine there, one should have a stomach that would be immune to the high prices.
2
This review makes me want to fly over to NYC, eat at The Grill and fly back home. NYC experience done. Really, it sounds that good. Rarely do I want to try every single dish described. The guinea hen, the crab cakes, the lamb chops, the honey mustard duck, I want to try it all! Even the less memorable dishes sound spectacular. I even want to try the prime rib and I don't eat beef!!! The pictures are spectacular and the picture of the crab cake is what made me want to fly out immediately The only thing better is your writing Mr Wells. You Sir are a brilliant writer!
12
I have yet to read the review but I am oh so curious how The Grill received the same amount of stars as Guan Fu Sichuan. Born and raised in Queens and have been to some of the greatest restaurants in the world along with some of the most greasiest of spoons. - and also completely not born with a silver spoon in my mouth.
I purposefully made the journey with friends based on that article. In short, that was a glorified puff piece. Not even sure I want to bother reading this one, however, I will surely check out The Grill at some point for a special occasion.
The star ratings in the Times have turned into a joke.
I purposefully made the journey with friends based on that article. In short, that was a glorified puff piece. Not even sure I want to bother reading this one, however, I will surely check out The Grill at some point for a special occasion.
The star ratings in the Times have turned into a joke.
3
It helps to read the review. Very different restaurants, as the Grill and GFS are, can earn the same number of stars not because they're similar, but because each achieves its objective similarly well in the eyes of the critic.
14
I am sorry but restaurants that get a comment "....some things that have been replace are very good . Others are reasonably apt" do not deserve 3 stars. I have eaten there recently. I can not possibly see how you would grant it even one star. I believe you have lost your sense of what's very good vs just ok. A "Memorable $98 lobster" - I am afraid you live in another place where mediocrity and excess is the norm.
13
wow I guess I need to go back for a second visit. my experience was quite the opposite (although yes the room is still gorgeous) but the food and the entire experience was memorable only because of the caviar and how scary and loud the room became after 15 minutes of arriving.
always believe in second chance....so......here I go scrambling to get a reservation.
always believe in second chance....so......here I go scrambling to get a reservation.
8
Almost as important as the food, The Four Seasons was home to the power lunch -- a place to see and be seen. I want to see Don Draper, not Martin Shkreli.
25
You should finish Mad Men, if you haven't; while no Martin Shkreli, Don Draper was hardly a person you should seek to emulate unless alcoholism, narcissism, and infidelity are your thing.
FWIW I absolutely adore Mad Men as a show, but still let's be honest here--in the Mad Men days there were as many slimeballs as today and they were perfectly welcome at The Four Seasons.
FWIW I absolutely adore Mad Men as a show, but still let's be honest here--in the Mad Men days there were as many slimeballs as today and they were perfectly welcome at The Four Seasons.
5
He said he wanted to see him, not be him.
6
I slapped the Major Food Group around in a comment on a previous article on their plans for the Four Seasons. Now in reading this review it actually makes me want to save up and go to The Grill. I hope (and am fairly sure) they will lose some of the silliness and tune it up a bit. A Holiday season treat may be in the offing.
6
I am really relieved to read such a positive review. The interior of the old Four Seasons is a masterpiece. As a young architect who had just moved to NYC and had studied the Seagram Building, I saved (and saved...and saved...and oh God, why am I doing this?...saved) for a trip to the Four Seasons. Like Pete Wells, I wanted to eat at the fantasy version of that restaurant. And like Pete, I thought it was a disaster. The service was so bad that it somehow felt like the building itself was being abused.
I am glad to hear that the service and food now live up to such a remarkable setting. For anyone, like me, without the funds to gorge there for dinner outside of truly special occasions, I would still try to make it in for a drink at the bar. They also participated in Open House NY last October - maybe they'll do it again? It's the worth the sight of the most beautiful dining room in the city.
I am glad to hear that the service and food now live up to such a remarkable setting. For anyone, like me, without the funds to gorge there for dinner outside of truly special occasions, I would still try to make it in for a drink at the bar. They also participated in Open House NY last October - maybe they'll do it again? It's the worth the sight of the most beautiful dining room in the city.
31
Definitely go to the bar, Drink prices are in line with the neighbourhood -- and even cheaper than other places. There's also some food available at the bar, though the smell and clutter it creates detracts from the elegance of the bar itself.
1
Pete must be losing his hearing because the room is noisy but no one seems to care. Otherwise, the review is attentive, accurate and aptly described. The prices are only slightly over the top but overall worth every penny. The menu is inspired and entertaining. The food is as advertised in the menu, inspired. I'm looking forward to the pool room next time in hopes it is quieter.
15
I don't harbor any fantasies of belonging to the class of citizens who can dine at the Grill Room without feeling that they have been fleeced, and can safely assume that many of them are dining on expense accounts or tax deductable meals. Well,goodie for them ,but I don't enjoy feeling like a sucker, and don't care much for theatrics with my meal...carry on...
15
I don't usually harbor fantasies of defending the ruling classes' watering holes, but Wells teed up the prohibitive cost and then, there at the bottom "Appetizers, $19 to $36; main courses, $37 to $98." Hmmm, as far as NYC goes, in Manhattan, in what is probably the most expensive per-square-foot rent any restaurant inhabits, this did not seem off the charts by any means. $40 entrées are pretty common for the top tier, regardless of whether that infuriates us folks that pretty much only cook at home out of necessity. Commenting that the lobster was "$98, about five times what you’d pay for a live lobster of the same size" is ridiculous. You can't compare all the costs involved in delivering that lobster to a diner in the Pool (room) to the cost of buying a lobster at the fish monger. Wells just got done listing off all the many aspects of the renovations, any one of which one easy imagines cost a small fortune. It was essentially a public service to restore Johnson's glorious space and that is worth something. And that's before you tally up all the myriad costs at running a restaurant of this caliber. It's likely they are losing money for some time to come, even with a 3-star review and a full house.
40
a fair amount of the entrees are in the $70-80 dollar range. had a great experience there, but certainly quite pricey. For those of us not on an expense account or independently wealthy, consider this restaurant for a very very special occasion...i do not think it will dissapoint!
7
Amen!
I'm tired of reading reviews of restaurants that we mere mortals can't afford.
I'm a physician and simply can't justify paying these prices for a meal.
But you're right - this is probably great for trust fund kids, investment bankers, and business travelers with expense accounts (e.g. people you probably would find crushingly dull and self-absorbed).
I'm tired of reading reviews of restaurants that we mere mortals can't afford.
I'm a physician and simply can't justify paying these prices for a meal.
But you're right - this is probably great for trust fund kids, investment bankers, and business travelers with expense accounts (e.g. people you probably would find crushingly dull and self-absorbed).
6
Wow another multi-star review for a decidedly mixed experience. More dilution of the star system at play. Thanks, Pete. Still waiting on your explanation of your methodology since it appears inconsistent and unfair. Perhaps this is all just entertainment and shouldn't be bothered with at all? Except there's real money on the line for your readers and eaters.
15
I didn't pick up on mixed, I noted a few quibbles about stemware and napkins. He mentioned several dishes that he will be thinking about for the rest of the year and everything else was merely "very, very good". Sounds like an out of the park review to me.
24
I'm not sure where you are getting "decidedly mixed experience" from. The food ranged from very good to fantastic, prices are variable and on the higher-end (what restaurant isn't in NYC) and his biggest complaint seems to be that they are using new stemware and plates. I definitely got the impression of a 3 star restaurant out of this review.
26
Decidedly mixed is your read, not mine. How often do we read about 6-7 spectacular dishes and this level of commitment to and care for an unusually significant "place"? I appreciate the balance and the candor of his concerns. Especially regarding hiring. No worries about "dilution" here.
36