Awful bloodshed by lost souls, adoctrinated by a rabid jihadist. Senseless. And stupid. Trouble is, religious fanaticism has become prevalent, and youngsters seeking fame (as previous assassins gained temporary notoriety dor their misdeeds) seem willing to die while taking with them as many innocent victims as possible. How do we stop these thugs before they act, irrational as they seem, with no known pattern nor clear motive...except sworn to a radical interpretation of the Koran?
2
Many often refer to Imams and their despicable hatred as a cancer. As an oncologist, I often have to determine how far a patient is willing to go in order to successfully eradicate malignant cells. These mosques are malignant cells that must be dealt with harshly. Allowing cancer cells to live among us can only lead to our deaths.
8
People hugging and singing "Imagine", holding hands and "walks of defiance" will not solve this problem nor stop what happens until people openly acknowledge that there is a problem with Islam in particular and that religion is a significant component, if not THE component in the ideology and philosophy these young, mostly men, aspire to.
The citizens of all these affected countries should be able to do so without the fear of being branded islamophobes, racist or whatever else. This is especially true in light of the apparent and disheartening lack of leadership from their politicians and institutions.
Otherwise that lack of discussion and dialogue will be filled by zealots and ideologues who will offer simplistic, attractive, yet ultimately empty solutions underlined by the same old same old rhetoric of hatred and intolerance that once burned brightly in Europe and could easily do so again.
The fact that Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuel Macron or any other European leader, refuse to often talk or name Islam and the Koran as being sources of inspiration for these terrorists, doesn't change the fact that in these people's minds they find justification and legitimacy from them for their reprehensible and criminal actions.
Ignoring or not mentioning a problem doesn't change the reality of its existence.
The citizens of all these affected countries should be able to do so without the fear of being branded islamophobes, racist or whatever else. This is especially true in light of the apparent and disheartening lack of leadership from their politicians and institutions.
Otherwise that lack of discussion and dialogue will be filled by zealots and ideologues who will offer simplistic, attractive, yet ultimately empty solutions underlined by the same old same old rhetoric of hatred and intolerance that once burned brightly in Europe and could easily do so again.
The fact that Angela Merkel, Theresa May, Emmanuel Macron or any other European leader, refuse to often talk or name Islam and the Koran as being sources of inspiration for these terrorists, doesn't change the fact that in these people's minds they find justification and legitimacy from them for their reprehensible and criminal actions.
Ignoring or not mentioning a problem doesn't change the reality of its existence.
7
All of these ISIS terrorists have something in common. All came from middle class or better families. So, they are not poor, marginalized boys/men - just like most of the terrorists of the past. The idea of 'if we just try to eliminate the desperation of the poor, we'd eliminate the reason to be brainwashed by extreme Islam. Quite the contrary.
I continue to say - 'investigate the Imams and clerics' as it is they who brainwash the young. It is they that spew their violent intolerant attitudes about 'non-believers.' We don't want like the idea of monitoring Mosques - separation of church or respect of some kind. So, monitor ALL places of worship. Done.
I continue to say - 'investigate the Imams and clerics' as it is they who brainwash the young. It is they that spew their violent intolerant attitudes about 'non-believers.' We don't want like the idea of monitoring Mosques - separation of church or respect of some kind. So, monitor ALL places of worship. Done.
6
Who provided funding for this imam, Mr. Essati and his mosque of horrors?
6
I remember taking many a trip to Ripoll when I was an art history student in Madrid, and later when I lived and worked in Barcelona (22 years). The beatiful Romanesque church in the main square always filled me with joy and amazement. To think of something so heinous boiling underneath the surface of this lovely Catalonian town is beyond anything I could ever imagine. There is zero justification for what happened, but knowing Catalonia and Catalonian culture and society well, I wonder how someone from Morroco could ever fit in or fully integrate into a town like Ripoll. Catalonians pride themselves on their shared culture, language and history and while not intentional, someone who's from another place can feel lonley and left out (I say this from personal experience). Everyone accepts and welcomes you, gives you the opportunities, but there's always something there reminding you that you're not one of us. Perhpas it's like oil and water - they will never mix.
3
We may never get full picture. Why are these men always so young? Something just doesn't add up. They seem perfectly normal eating breakfast, and then dead. Now the van driver is dead when he really should have been taken in for questioning. Seems too pat. Police said he wore explosives as reason. Just seems pat.
2
The 9/11 hijackers also had ties to a radical mosque in Hamburg, Germany. For every radical mosque there is a radical imam.
The leadership across the entire Western world has evidently not learned anything since 9/11.
Spain and the entire West need another Queen Isabelle, but unfortunately all we have are Neville Chamberlains.
The leadership across the entire Western world has evidently not learned anything since 9/11.
Spain and the entire West need another Queen Isabelle, but unfortunately all we have are Neville Chamberlains.
12
What you are doing, essentially, is calling for a new Inquisition. Whatever the solution may be to Islamic violence, I don't think another inquisition would do much good. Since Queen Isabella didn't initiate the inquisition of the 15th century, maybe you are expressing a desire for her not related to the Barcelona attacks, and that's your business.
1
How many readers have a job, a family, a car and yet yearn for something more? How many of you are "normal" and integrated and still daydream of heroics, of serving something larger than yourself? What stokes your yearning? What might tip you over the edge from curiosity to obsession? These are the questions we should be asking with respect to radicalization: What seeds of yearning can be cultivated, manipulated, twisted, and made to serve something profoundly evil?
3
Hmmm. Those things are true of everyone. So why is Islam so prominent in all these atrocities?
16
Religion is the well-oiled conduit for this group. And, presently, ISIS mass-produces the guide to making it work. Violently. But it could be anything. That wouldn't work on the people at Charlottesvile, of course. Instead, a vague notion of "homeland" slighted or lost to foreignness is a conduit for white nationalists in the US today, as it is for populists in Holland (Wilders), France (Le Pen), Hungary (Orban), UK (Farage), Italy (Bossi), and on and on. Hitler and Mussolini backed a similar message to a more violent effect. Anything to connect the right kind of people to something bigger to themselves, perhaps. All of this is speculation, of course.
4
It would be simpler, and a greater service to justice, if they (all of Europe) offered all the imams who preach jihad, and all their followers, a free return to their place of origin. After a reasonable period, detain and execute those who haven't availed themselves of our generous offer. Enough!
17
Why does "they were just normal, promising young men" give me no comfort? Those families and that Muslim community let an extremist (and cover ISIS recruiter) be their imam. This must be investigated and explained, before more Spaniards die from terror attacks.
22
The air is getting tight for those people who think and tell us permanently that integration, inclusion is the recipe against radicalization.
So, these guys were "normal" (they had jobs (and that in a country with a sky high percentage of unemployed people below 25!), they played football, had cars and lived in quite nice apartments in a nice town and it seems that all it took was an iman - in other words a man who studied the koran a bit - to poison their brains.
I believe that we cannot continue to treat Islam as we treat other religions as long as members of this cult get into the news for terrorism and not much else. Islam has to be reformed to be able to arrive in the 21st century, in the meantime it will continue to cause a lot of misery, most of it in Islamic countries but also elsewhere. The Western World cannot start this reform but we could, and hopefully will sooner than later, stop the wrong tolerance towards Muslims who live here; it has been going on for too long and also is one of the reasons why we have the terror here now. In other words, Muslims who want to live in the advanced world have to embrace the rules and laws of their chosen country, if they cannot or do not want to, we should enclourage and help them to move to a country where they fit in better.
So, these guys were "normal" (they had jobs (and that in a country with a sky high percentage of unemployed people below 25!), they played football, had cars and lived in quite nice apartments in a nice town and it seems that all it took was an iman - in other words a man who studied the koran a bit - to poison their brains.
I believe that we cannot continue to treat Islam as we treat other religions as long as members of this cult get into the news for terrorism and not much else. Islam has to be reformed to be able to arrive in the 21st century, in the meantime it will continue to cause a lot of misery, most of it in Islamic countries but also elsewhere. The Western World cannot start this reform but we could, and hopefully will sooner than later, stop the wrong tolerance towards Muslims who live here; it has been going on for too long and also is one of the reasons why we have the terror here now. In other words, Muslims who want to live in the advanced world have to embrace the rules and laws of their chosen country, if they cannot or do not want to, we should enclourage and help them to move to a country where they fit in better.
25
Were that it were that easy. You can't paint all muslims with a broad brush...does anyone deny that the these people are a radical fringe minority? I agree that Islam is in need of a reformation, but if it happens it will come form within, from a trusted champion, not from without.
3
They might be a minority but that doesn't change the fact that they are lethal. Calling them a fringe minority or whatever, doesn't diminish what they are doing and who they are.
3
They already had one, they were called Sufis and believed in peace and love and were outlawed for it.
1
I don't understand how the whole community wasn't complicit in allowing this imam to practice. I'm sure he espoused radical beliefs from the pulpit. Or are these truly moderate beliefs in Islam?
22
The caring humane world must determine which Muslim country is sponsoring the religious schools and Imams who are so determined to cleanse the world of infidels. It is well established, for decades, that Saudi Arabia' government is deeply connected with the Wahabbi sect that holds to a rigid form of Islam that promoted beheading, stoning, chopping off of hands and feet as punishment; none of these punishments are acceptable in the 21st century.
22
Islam as a religion is fine and compatible with Western culture. Islam as a political system is barbaric, violent, antisemitic, misogynist and incompatible with Western society.
18
How do we differentiate between the two, before it's too late?
3
We need to find out what rubbish this preacher was able fill their heads with, and a means to counter it.
Tying the young men to a stake and burning them alive might be satisfying for a moment, but won't get us to the heart of the matter.
Where is the money coming from?
Any mosque in Spain that does not unequivocally condemn this action and demand cooperation of its members should be shuttered.
Tying the young men to a stake and burning them alive might be satisfying for a moment, but won't get us to the heart of the matter.
Where is the money coming from?
Any mosque in Spain that does not unequivocally condemn this action and demand cooperation of its members should be shuttered.
19
I remember reading that its oil money to fight their "Holy War."
1
How can any imam of any Islamic community be trusted after all of the attacks over the past couple of years?
Europeans need to conduct a public relations campaign that impugns any religious rationalization of murder as a means to an end.
If this story is true, then the power this imam had over the minds of these brothers, and that brother may have held over brother, spells a disease and a social rot that is very difficult to conceive, much less combat.
Europeans need to conduct a public relations campaign that impugns any religious rationalization of murder as a means to an end.
If this story is true, then the power this imam had over the minds of these brothers, and that brother may have held over brother, spells a disease and a social rot that is very difficult to conceive, much less combat.
21
Given that these terrorists were clearly integrated and not suffering in Spain, perhaps we should start asking if the originator culture is the problem.
45
It is definitely a cultural and religious problem. Within a week of lending in New York as a very young student I met a Moroccan guy who spewed so much vitriol against America, I was shocked. That was in the early 70s. We failed miserably to monitor the boiling pot. We have been sleeping at the wheel. And by the way I was born in that part of the world. Knowing the culture intimately I knew that the next decades of my life that I will be witnessing the implosion of Islamic countries. It is a surprise to anyone who knows their culture. For a more accurate prediction you should perhaps read Winston Churchill's memoirs. He describes it to a T.
22
Admiral James Lyon answered that question, with clarity, in 2015, at a strategy session hosted by Secretary John Kerry. See https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc0_1423721020
3
It will never be clear as to what made these men do what they did. Most times I have thought it is people who have nothing to lose willing to do this damage on the human race. Obviously these young men had a middle class life and still murdered. I doubt we will ever know.
5
It gives them a sense of meaning, and a sense that they are part of something greater than themselves. Living in small towns may seem too low key. Young men at that age have to navigate a grandiosity fantasy.
We need different overarching narratives. Climate change, rebuilding the ME, reforesting Africa, et al for the nurturance of life...or maybe defending biodiversity, oceans, fish stocks, species, etc. Life, life, life. Life is good. WE need to recall that it is sacred.
This is not a call for right to life of unborns or a higher human birthrate. It is a call to community with all the variety of species and ecological systems on the planet. War and strife are energizing and exciting; but life is restorative. Natural systems are restorative. We need conservation corps everywhere, firefighters, EMTs, doctors, nurses, community health workers who are both men and women. We need engineers to figure out what to do with all that rubble from bombings. WE need security forces/police who are well trained and actually community workers and dispute resolvers.
Etc. The point is, what is the vision for diverse life on earth?
We need different overarching narratives. Climate change, rebuilding the ME, reforesting Africa, et al for the nurturance of life...or maybe defending biodiversity, oceans, fish stocks, species, etc. Life, life, life. Life is good. WE need to recall that it is sacred.
This is not a call for right to life of unborns or a higher human birthrate. It is a call to community with all the variety of species and ecological systems on the planet. War and strife are energizing and exciting; but life is restorative. Natural systems are restorative. We need conservation corps everywhere, firefighters, EMTs, doctors, nurses, community health workers who are both men and women. We need engineers to figure out what to do with all that rubble from bombings. WE need security forces/police who are well trained and actually community workers and dispute resolvers.
Etc. The point is, what is the vision for diverse life on earth?
6
Four sets of brothers involved in the attacks in Catalonia. I find it hard to believe that their families were gratiful to the country that has given them an opportunity to live there. If you don't like the "new country", then go back!
28
How many times have you read the statements of the family of some American young man who has committed some heinous act, "We didn't raise him that way! We taught just the opposite!"
Young men in their late teens and early 20s are often in rebellion against their parents and the teachers. They look at the culture in which they were raised and only see its failings and injustices. They believe that only they can truly see the way the future should be. They believe that they are immortal and will survive any calamity.
The psychology of youth provides plenty of explanation as to why this group of friends might form a violent club of extremists. It is cruel and simplistic of you to blame the parents.
Young men in their late teens and early 20s are often in rebellion against their parents and the teachers. They look at the culture in which they were raised and only see its failings and injustices. They believe that only they can truly see the way the future should be. They believe that they are immortal and will survive any calamity.
The psychology of youth provides plenty of explanation as to why this group of friends might form a violent club of extremists. It is cruel and simplistic of you to blame the parents.
7
And what were the failings that these boys experienced? The had jobs, cars, homes, food, freedom as we have in the west, education, ... what failings did they have again? I don't blame the families, especially when they speak out (as some have in the past, but are ignored by our ever growing security system). But, I do blame those that went to this mosque and can only guess the families were in attendance. No way were there not signs that this Imam (like many across the west) was a violent extremist.
2
The van's driver has been shot death, some Spanish media are now reporting!
3
The fools who do these horrible things should be reminded they have family who have to live on after they die and suffer because of their cowardly behavior.
12
Tragedy and truth. “I wish this had never happened and that our only memory of our children was the innocence in their eyes.” said an educator and a mother said “I wish we didn’t have to remember them the way we do. We don’t know whether to cry for them or what to do, because they have killed 14 people.” True for all victims. Reality is not 72 virgins. Reality is: those boys die, leaving behind their own families as victims their own hope, dreams destroyed. As for these scavengers, who hunt these young men and women molding them into weapons, leading them away from life's hope to hatred, destruction and heinous acts: find them. Prosecute them then punish them. Well written and humane. Thank you.
12
The families of these terrorists should be crying for not for their son's, but the victims their sons murdered or severely hurt. Their sons not only brought dishonor on their families but proved to be traitors to their adopted homeland.
46
The caption under their photo at the top of the article says they were gathered and crying at a memorial for the victims.
6
If you can believe that.
10
These families were at a memorial for the victims, so they were obviously there to grieve for the innocents murdered or injured by their sons-turned-terrorists. But the thing is that they themselves are also victims of their sons' heinous acts, and they need to cope with that somehow. It sounds to me like that mother was expressing their difficulty in allowing themselves to grieve for themselves under the circumstances.
1
Why was an imam with links to Islamist extremists allowed to practice? Why was Abdel-Baki es-Sati even at large?
51
He hid himself very well. No signs whatsoever of his radical inclinations, nothing on social media, no books, writings, nothing that could indicate what was going on. This man was clever and knew what to hid. The same for the perpetrators - nothing on FB, text messages, nada-nothing.
2
Imams with ties to Islamic extremists are EVERYWHERE! Saudi has exported thousands across the west going back to the late 70s. They even build the Mosques for them. Why don't people know this? It doesn't fit the PC agenda.
1
Once again, with alarming frequency, bitter old men are teaching young men and women to wreak havoc on the world, from Las Ramblas to Paris to Charlottesville to...
It will only stop when elders stop teaching violence and death to avenge their grievances.
It will only stop when elders stop teaching violence and death to avenge their grievances.
33
Hmmm, and what grievances would those be? Because this has gone on since 300 AD, I'm not thinking it's the west.
1