This is interesting and useful -- but comparing immigrant families with families mired in generational poverty is apples-and-oranges. Also I do get tired of hearing people lament that the War on Poverty hasn't "worked." The only way we'd really know what impact it's had is to have lived in a parallel universe where it never existed, and look at the difference in poverty rates.
4
After reading the article by Mr. Bornstein and a book, J.D. Vance, "Hillbilly Elegy" and any number of comments in this section, as well as my own personal observations, I have come to several conclusions that echo personal responsibility and learning:
The government, state or federal cannot solve the problem of poverty and wage inequality, except by providing solid education at the elementary and high school levels. The problem is that the students of poor families don't seem to be able to keep up with the faster learners. That can only be changed by the families of and the students themselves. See below.
Not every person understands personal responsibility with respect to money and budgets. Witness the Millennials, whose habits of saving regardless of wage, is insufficient to provide them funds for retirement. Poorer families, if I correct information, make lousy choices with respect to food, saving and spending. This articles shows that they can be taught how to take control of their lives by being given fundamental knowledge and with networking.
Yes, poor people are often disrespected, but not by people who have been there and have gotten out of the trap. I hope the rest of us, me included, can learn something from these authors and the examples they bring.
The government, state or federal cannot solve the problem of poverty and wage inequality, except by providing solid education at the elementary and high school levels. The problem is that the students of poor families don't seem to be able to keep up with the faster learners. That can only be changed by the families of and the students themselves. See below.
Not every person understands personal responsibility with respect to money and budgets. Witness the Millennials, whose habits of saving regardless of wage, is insufficient to provide them funds for retirement. Poorer families, if I correct information, make lousy choices with respect to food, saving and spending. This articles shows that they can be taught how to take control of their lives by being given fundamental knowledge and with networking.
Yes, poor people are often disrespected, but not by people who have been there and have gotten out of the trap. I hope the rest of us, me included, can learn something from these authors and the examples they bring.
6
Our capitalist society is completely unregulated-- millions of job are outsourced to cheap labor, while HB - 1 Visas are used by corporations to bring in more cheap labor. Citizens barely have chance for living-wage jobs anymore, And that does not even begin to address employment difficulties for minorities!
7
Better K12 schools, colleges, vocational training, & skilled job placements for the poor only work best when their brains & bodies are not full of poisons.
How can some poor folks recognize & follow through on their own better choices when their neurological functions (i.e. the longer attention span needed to acquire practical skills/complex knowledge/be active listeners, as well as the executive functioning needed to apply appropriate independent time management and social skills to hold down better jobs, friendships, and households?) are getting sabotaged by lead exposure - from when greedy/lazy landlords &/or govts don't pay to remove the legacy toxic paint and plumbing in aging homes?
How can some poor families move up w/ myriad learning/cognitive disabilities and physical disabilities plaguing them too, due to their teens' and adults' escapist/hunger-and-despair-forgetting addictions, such as: a) tobacco use=respiratory ailments blocking off oxygen to brains, plus cancer risk; b) fetal alcohol syndrome from drunk parents=FASD kids & adults w/ poor impulse control, lower IQs, etc.; c) prenatal exposure to crack & other recreational drugs, as well as the abuse of prescribed opioids=ppl too high, stoned, or numb to do anything; d) cheap salty/sugary/fatty/artificial ingredients junk food EBT cards can buy=obesity, diabetes, strokes, heart attacks, cancers.
Toxic Housing Food Deserts Addictions NoBirthControl/SexEd=Uneducable/Unemployable Poor despite schools/jobs/grants
How can some poor folks recognize & follow through on their own better choices when their neurological functions (i.e. the longer attention span needed to acquire practical skills/complex knowledge/be active listeners, as well as the executive functioning needed to apply appropriate independent time management and social skills to hold down better jobs, friendships, and households?) are getting sabotaged by lead exposure - from when greedy/lazy landlords &/or govts don't pay to remove the legacy toxic paint and plumbing in aging homes?
How can some poor families move up w/ myriad learning/cognitive disabilities and physical disabilities plaguing them too, due to their teens' and adults' escapist/hunger-and-despair-forgetting addictions, such as: a) tobacco use=respiratory ailments blocking off oxygen to brains, plus cancer risk; b) fetal alcohol syndrome from drunk parents=FASD kids & adults w/ poor impulse control, lower IQs, etc.; c) prenatal exposure to crack & other recreational drugs, as well as the abuse of prescribed opioids=ppl too high, stoned, or numb to do anything; d) cheap salty/sugary/fatty/artificial ingredients junk food EBT cards can buy=obesity, diabetes, strokes, heart attacks, cancers.
Toxic Housing Food Deserts Addictions NoBirthControl/SexEd=Uneducable/Unemployable Poor despite schools/jobs/grants
5
Family, perseverance and the willingness to try, that's what did it for me. You are right that once one succeeds it inspires others to try. The energy and effort to make it out of poverty is immense. In high school my counselor looked at my grades, ethnicity, and economic and social background and said, "vocational." I wanted college prep. My mom said better go in the trades at least you will have something to fall back on. Well, I am a master welder, journeyman carpenter and plumber and I have a college degree and a few graduate level credits. My first business out of college failed and I worked two and three wage jobs to pay back the loans I got to start my business when my partners bagged with the money and equipment. I bought the first home in my family and now my mother, brother and sister are in their own homes. I gave my brother-in-law money to start his first business. That failed but he now has his own business. I am ready to retire out of my current profession (consultant/analyst for over 18 years) with a net worth of two million $ (years of deferred gratification and tucking money away). I still drive by the old neighborhood I grew up in to see how far I've come with little talent and buckets of sweat. Your family can catch you when you fall, but getting up and hitting it again is all on you. And, you have old friends that made it, too. Give 'em a call, they'll be glad to hear from you and always have good ideas. My kids will do better, it's all been for them.
18
There are people who will move out of poverty and there are others, that no matter what program there is or what aid is given, are just not going to do so. It's heartbreaking when one sees this but it's a fact of life.
Most people who are poor have a long history of very bad choices, whether they be having children they cannot afford with men who will never give them a dime (and whom they refuse to go to court to make them do so). Add to that poor lifestyle choices of diet and it's just a rolling ball getting bigger and bigger.
I have no idea what the answer is, but if this works, go for it. How much worse could it get. Just throwing government funds at it certainly has not worked these past 50 years!
Most people who are poor have a long history of very bad choices, whether they be having children they cannot afford with men who will never give them a dime (and whom they refuse to go to court to make them do so). Add to that poor lifestyle choices of diet and it's just a rolling ball getting bigger and bigger.
I have no idea what the answer is, but if this works, go for it. How much worse could it get. Just throwing government funds at it certainly has not worked these past 50 years!
7
Once again, along comes Lady Bountiful - or Mr Bountiful in this case - opining that if only the poor would pull themselves up by their bootstraps all would be well. It is the latest flavor of "blame the victim". What happens when there are no boots, nor any straps?
6
We need organized labor and unions.
Government supportive of domestic programs for education, health, unions.
Enlightened, robust voc tech programs, nationwide.
Enlightened progress in manufacturing for materials related to sustainability. Technologies. Jobs of today and tomorrow.
Government and corporate collaboration and support for US based jobs.
A problem with state sponsored tuition grants: it will continue the insane costs and tuition and living cost escalation of colleges and universities. Only the wealthy and lowest income can attend: middle class families are taking on surreal student debt loads
Government supportive of domestic programs for education, health, unions.
Enlightened, robust voc tech programs, nationwide.
Enlightened progress in manufacturing for materials related to sustainability. Technologies. Jobs of today and tomorrow.
Government and corporate collaboration and support for US based jobs.
A problem with state sponsored tuition grants: it will continue the insane costs and tuition and living cost escalation of colleges and universities. Only the wealthy and lowest income can attend: middle class families are taking on surreal student debt loads
14
Well geez. Congratulations for coming smack up against the obvious.
Free higher public education was the great transformative force for the poor--especially immigrants--of the 20th century. Within a generation the children of impoverished villagers from the Russian Empire and Ireland and Italy were doctors and lawyers and architects.
A civilized society provides easy access to good education; offers universal healthcare; ensures that the elderly, the disabled and the temporarily incapacitated neither go hungry nor homeless.
The rest is up to us.
Free higher public education was the great transformative force for the poor--especially immigrants--of the 20th century. Within a generation the children of impoverished villagers from the Russian Empire and Ireland and Italy were doctors and lawyers and architects.
A civilized society provides easy access to good education; offers universal healthcare; ensures that the elderly, the disabled and the temporarily incapacitated neither go hungry nor homeless.
The rest is up to us.
15
Mauricio Lim Miller's approach is consistent with the premise that people across the economic spectrum behave similarly. Mostly, we all learn from our friends and neighbors. When we have a problem, we tap into their knowledge and experience. FII succeeds in generating incredible results by fostering social connectivity, experience sharing, self-reliance and accountability in small peer groups within a community. Few people like being told by outsiders how to live their lives. However, if I make a declaration to my friends about some action to improve my life (e.g. lose weight, take a course, look for a better job...) and ask for their help, then I am far more likely to succeed than if I am told to do that by some outsider or social worker.
8
How are families selected and/or recruited to participate in the Family Independence Initiative? I ask because it seems like there is a real danger that selection bias comes into play when we look at their outcomes data.
I imagine that the families who have enough resources available to seek out/fully participate in this program would be the same families who, on average, have lower rates of trauma symptoms, lower rates of substance dependency, and perhaps even just higher levels of protective factors in general.
As a social worker, my concern in reading about this work is that the clients F.I.I. works with could represent only a small minority of families experiencing poverty. Working in Chicago, I can testify that the vast majority of my clients experience clinically significant PTSD symptoms as a result of complex, and typically generational, trauma. These symptoms, left untreated, often present as a major obstacle to the ability to find/maintain steady employment, housing, etc. The F.I.I. model, from what I can tell, seems to underplay the very real need for therapy and rehabilitation that so many of my clients would attest to.
I hope that F.I.I.'s work continues and that their successes continue; but I feel that this model should be viewed not as a "solution" for poverty, but rather as one part of a more comprehensive array of services needed to support the diverse needs of millions of individual families.
I imagine that the families who have enough resources available to seek out/fully participate in this program would be the same families who, on average, have lower rates of trauma symptoms, lower rates of substance dependency, and perhaps even just higher levels of protective factors in general.
As a social worker, my concern in reading about this work is that the clients F.I.I. works with could represent only a small minority of families experiencing poverty. Working in Chicago, I can testify that the vast majority of my clients experience clinically significant PTSD symptoms as a result of complex, and typically generational, trauma. These symptoms, left untreated, often present as a major obstacle to the ability to find/maintain steady employment, housing, etc. The F.I.I. model, from what I can tell, seems to underplay the very real need for therapy and rehabilitation that so many of my clients would attest to.
I hope that F.I.I.'s work continues and that their successes continue; but I feel that this model should be viewed not as a "solution" for poverty, but rather as one part of a more comprehensive array of services needed to support the diverse needs of millions of individual families.
21
"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and he'll feed himself for a lifetime". I believe I'm describing your program if done as a community, right? Poverty is too big a problem, and too widespread, to let it die if not watered.
So the conservatives were correct. Liberalism does coddle and create a culture of dependence. Wow, this piece is a powerful blow and great boon to Paul Ryan's view point.
Looks like LBJ was right in trying to get black votes by giving them monetary aid. Maybe this Latino man can be heard because of his brown skin and white liberals will finally listen
Looks like LBJ was right in trying to get black votes by giving them monetary aid. Maybe this Latino man can be heard because of his brown skin and white liberals will finally listen
5
LBJ deliberately or by cunning to get votes, greatly harmed our country. He hoped to be another FDR, but he was not close.
2
Have fewer children. Most non-religious Jews I know have only 1 or 2 children. Not more. My sense is that Asian families are similar. The were children one has, the more resources one can devote to them. The surest way to perpetuate poverty is to have 5 or 6 children (unless you're super rich).
People aril against the greed of Wall St, but what about the greed of the Vatican?
Nobody earning under 100k/yr should have more than than two children. Heck, I'd say have one kid for every 100k of household income (with a limit of three children and a goal of two children, regardless of wealth).
People aril against the greed of Wall St, but what about the greed of the Vatican?
Nobody earning under 100k/yr should have more than than two children. Heck, I'd say have one kid for every 100k of household income (with a limit of three children and a goal of two children, regardless of wealth).
14
I agree with this concept, but as it stands today, we have high barriers to birth control access (and the party in power wants to make that barrier higher). We also don't have particularly great options for birth control. Then on the other side, we provide support to women who have children they can't support.
But you are absolutely right- a woman in her late teens thru her 20's with no child has time to get educated. She has flexibility in her work life, no need to coordinate and pay for child care. If that woman just has one child, all the sudden her free time is gone and her flexibility is gone.
It's the rare late teen -20's man who sticks around for the child.... so women getting pregnant too early will be single moms. I'm 43, educated, good job. Great support network. Healthy. My job isn't too demanding. The prospect of me fitting a child into my life is daunting. You need both parents at a responsible life stage to make child rearing work, unless you have enough wealth for support services.
But you are absolutely right- a woman in her late teens thru her 20's with no child has time to get educated. She has flexibility in her work life, no need to coordinate and pay for child care. If that woman just has one child, all the sudden her free time is gone and her flexibility is gone.
It's the rare late teen -20's man who sticks around for the child.... so women getting pregnant too early will be single moms. I'm 43, educated, good job. Great support network. Healthy. My job isn't too demanding. The prospect of me fitting a child into my life is daunting. You need both parents at a responsible life stage to make child rearing work, unless you have enough wealth for support services.
5
"Rich guy"--Your "one child per $100,000 of household income" rule would condemn millions of women to childlessness, due to society's bad choices...
Examples: women's pay is generally a lot lower than men's, there's a lack of affordable childcare (which bars many women from decent jobs), the fight against unions (and for the Right to Work for Less) drives down wages, unaffordable health insurance will soon regard males as the physical norm and exclude "female problems" unless a higher premium is paid, toxins flood low-income children's developing brains (pipes oozing lead, peeling lead-based paint, inequitable school funding breaks the bottom rungs of any ladder one could climb toward college... How could women and men born into poverty achieve the wealth to permit parenthood under your wished-for rule?
And no, delaying the birth of one's first child 5 or even 10 years will not permit most Americans to reach that $100,000 annual income!
Your advice to women seems to be "choose wealthy parents or marry a millionaire, otherwise resign yourself to never bearing a child." It's a recipe for an America that resembles old Russian's division into aristocrats, dirt-poor peasants, and a Tsar.
Examples: women's pay is generally a lot lower than men's, there's a lack of affordable childcare (which bars many women from decent jobs), the fight against unions (and for the Right to Work for Less) drives down wages, unaffordable health insurance will soon regard males as the physical norm and exclude "female problems" unless a higher premium is paid, toxins flood low-income children's developing brains (pipes oozing lead, peeling lead-based paint, inequitable school funding breaks the bottom rungs of any ladder one could climb toward college... How could women and men born into poverty achieve the wealth to permit parenthood under your wished-for rule?
And no, delaying the birth of one's first child 5 or even 10 years will not permit most Americans to reach that $100,000 annual income!
Your advice to women seems to be "choose wealthy parents or marry a millionaire, otherwise resign yourself to never bearing a child." It's a recipe for an America that resembles old Russian's division into aristocrats, dirt-poor peasants, and a Tsar.
1
After doing this for 30 years now, and I've yet to see the program, the silver bullet, that fundamentally changes the lives of people struggling to survive. I was very nearly angry when I read this, because it echoes what I've been shouting about for so long, not the least of which is the "race to the bottom." To get funding to provide help, your have to paint a picture of your clients that's as miserable as possible--miserable, and yet, not so miserable that whatever the "flavor of the month" program is won't help them. Funding comes from state and federal agencies who are invested in "evidence-based practices," a term anyone who actually works with people who are struggling has come to hate. And they are all based on the "you's sick/we's healthy, so we're going to fix you" model. And so many require participation in the very types of things that no person of sufficient means would agree to, for example, if we provide you with food assistance, you have to attend this nutrition program--as if being poor means you don't know what to eat, not that you don't have enough money to buy good food, or don't have a car to get to grocery stores instead of neighborhood corner stores. This is not to say that some people are not stuck in poverty for very specific reasons, like incarceration and serious mental illness--they do need a specific and sometimes long-term type of help.
12
There isn't a fast track highway out of poverty. If there was there would be a whole lot less poverty. Poverty isn't a choice. Poverty isn't something only the less educated marginalized people suffer from. If there was a fast track out of poverty it would have been done. Invented. Completed. Which implies there are many systemic reasons for poverty.
This isn't a bad idea--It is great to encourage people to improve the conditions of their own life but a part of that comes from having some sense of security to free up the simple motivations to try new things or gain new knowledge or to change up routines. A step in the right direction. But the fundamental dogmatic concept that it falls on families to get themselves out of poverty all on their own needs to be buried.
This isn't a bad idea--It is great to encourage people to improve the conditions of their own life but a part of that comes from having some sense of security to free up the simple motivations to try new things or gain new knowledge or to change up routines. A step in the right direction. But the fundamental dogmatic concept that it falls on families to get themselves out of poverty all on their own needs to be buried.
4
I disagree with many claims in this piece by the entrepreneur, Daniel Bornstein. Although almost all Republicans and many Democrats blame the poor for their poverty most Americans are neither Democrat nor Republican. Most Republicans and many Democrats may think the poor find poverty tolerable most poor or near poor people do not find it so. The War on Poverty actually did seek to empower poor communities by providing funds and power that went directly to them. Unfortunately, it was not a paternalistic mindset, but Republicans and many local politicians who lobbied to cut out the communities authority over the programs, and more importantly to get Congress to change the community directed funds to block grants controlled by the politicians (not social workers) who then funneled the money to themselves, their friends and what we would now call social entrepreneurs. Finally there although Mr. Millers approach "appears" to have some promise, it is not at this time well supported by a significant body of independent research. However, since it requires little money from the middle-class and the wealthy and promises to funnel what funds are available to business interests it is getting a lot of attention from Republicans, Democrats and the press. Finally, there are some anti-poverty programs with stronger research support. Unfortunately, they cost more money and don't get trumpeted by politicians and the main stream press.
5
Thanks for this corrective. I'm glad that this program is working for people, but I'm doubtful of the claim that it's a panacea to economic inequality. I also question if it's as free of involvement in people's lives as this interview claims. Collection and distribution of data that ordinarily wouldn't be available, the "structure and platform", along with paying participants a stipend for tracking themselves seems like intervention to me. Perhaps this program has more in common with traditional social work than its proponents want to acknowledge.
3
I wish someone would take the money away from all the snobby Democrats and see how they like it.
2
It's amazing you say that. I wish someone would take the money away from all the condescending Republicans and see how they like it. Guess we have something in common.
4
This is REALLY groundbreaking stuff!!! Information, whether from formal learning or ears to the ground is way more powerful than a hand out.
1
Poverty is caused by insufficient income. Period. All the dismal correlates of poverty--mental and physical disease, substance abuse, low educational attainment, unemployment, malnutrition---all of these correlates have one causal origin: inadequate income for daily needs.
And in the wealthiest country in the world why do 60 million live with food insecurity, going without eating?
The U.S. has almost the lowest taxes of advanced economies and by far the lowest social supports which is why American children are so poor. U.S. practice is that it is better that 10,000 kids die rather than require people like the Waltons and Kochs to pay meaningful income taxes.
The 100 million American underclass will continue to starve and die until the Democrats cease being a second party of billionaire plutocrats led by people like Goldman Sachs Hillary.
The Clintons abolished FDR's child support program without replacement and then instituted mass incarceration. So first they took away food and then they took away daddy.
There is no political alternative to mass hunger and despair because the U.S. is the only wealthy democracy without a strong social democratic party.
And nothing will change until the Democratic Party ceases to exist in its present form and gathers the courage to speak for the oppressed rather than the oppressor.
And in the wealthiest country in the world why do 60 million live with food insecurity, going without eating?
The U.S. has almost the lowest taxes of advanced economies and by far the lowest social supports which is why American children are so poor. U.S. practice is that it is better that 10,000 kids die rather than require people like the Waltons and Kochs to pay meaningful income taxes.
The 100 million American underclass will continue to starve and die until the Democrats cease being a second party of billionaire plutocrats led by people like Goldman Sachs Hillary.
The Clintons abolished FDR's child support program without replacement and then instituted mass incarceration. So first they took away food and then they took away daddy.
There is no political alternative to mass hunger and despair because the U.S. is the only wealthy democracy without a strong social democratic party.
And nothing will change until the Democratic Party ceases to exist in its present form and gathers the courage to speak for the oppressed rather than the oppressor.
12
Redistribute the unnecessary obscene quotients of incomes of wealthy individuals and corporations. Stop off shore banking. Control inflation. Invest in infrastructure development. Ensure and insure that the lowest income is $60,000 for a family of four. Expect employment by providing jobs for those capable of working, and providing volunteer work where there are no jobs available.
Expect each person and corporation to learn how to accurately manage their budgets, including all ongoing reoccurring expenses whether weekly, monthly. Have universal free education. Assure social security and universal health care. Recognize that wanting obscene and unnecessary amounts of money and wealth is a function of attitudes of extreme stinginess and extreme spending in order to feel vainglorious.
The transition period to a fair economy for all, the learning curve for all, will take 5 generations, 150 years, - - during which time we should forgive ourselves for our mistakes; and we should love our neighbors whether or not our neighbors love their selves and, as well, whether or not we love our selves.
The aforementioned ideas represent sane and healthy and functional social-economic-political policy. And, there still will be economically well-off people and corporations.
Expect each person and corporation to learn how to accurately manage their budgets, including all ongoing reoccurring expenses whether weekly, monthly. Have universal free education. Assure social security and universal health care. Recognize that wanting obscene and unnecessary amounts of money and wealth is a function of attitudes of extreme stinginess and extreme spending in order to feel vainglorious.
The transition period to a fair economy for all, the learning curve for all, will take 5 generations, 150 years, - - during which time we should forgive ourselves for our mistakes; and we should love our neighbors whether or not our neighbors love their selves and, as well, whether or not we love our selves.
The aforementioned ideas represent sane and healthy and functional social-economic-political policy. And, there still will be economically well-off people and corporations.
8
Wow. I can image a BILLION other people who would give their arm, or their firstborn, to live in such a society. How would we feed, house and clothe them all?
4
Great addition to the poverty debate. So many of us would like to understand the subject better. As with most thing data will help us understand as the micro-economists have shown us.
The number we use to denote the people in poverty are not very useful. In my hometown a person earning at the official poverty level lives very well. A nice house can be had for less than $35,000.
In other places income at the poverty level means the family really is at a poverty level. Surly we at good enough with statistics to be able to include government benefits and the level of income necessary to actually define who is actually in poverty.
I have been concerned with the subject since I was in grade school and we seem to closer to a solution now, but this project is a step in the right direction
The number we use to denote the people in poverty are not very useful. In my hometown a person earning at the official poverty level lives very well. A nice house can be had for less than $35,000.
In other places income at the poverty level means the family really is at a poverty level. Surly we at good enough with statistics to be able to include government benefits and the level of income necessary to actually define who is actually in poverty.
I have been concerned with the subject since I was in grade school and we seem to closer to a solution now, but this project is a step in the right direction
4
Many poor people and families are tired of the 'hand outs' rather than a 'hand up'. Giving things out alone is not the answer to their situation.
Most would like to have a steady job with fair wages. Given the choice, the majority of poor people want to be able to support themselves without benefits.
Problem is most of their jobs are so low paying that even working full time they qualify for food stamps now called EBT, medicaid and other programs.
We are subsidizing corporations indirectly. Walmart is the biggest welfare thief there is. Start directing our focus at them and others who pay poverty wages.
Most would like to have a steady job with fair wages. Given the choice, the majority of poor people want to be able to support themselves without benefits.
Problem is most of their jobs are so low paying that even working full time they qualify for food stamps now called EBT, medicaid and other programs.
We are subsidizing corporations indirectly. Walmart is the biggest welfare thief there is. Start directing our focus at them and others who pay poverty wages.
25
You know maybe it is a two sided sword. If Walmart pays more they charge more. I am willing to pay more because I can and because I agree with you, but for a person in poverty Walmart is a lifeline.
Walmart is only in business because of their low prices. Walmart has no
other redeeming value.
Walmart employees 1% of America workers- about 2,200,000 persons.
Are these people better off without Walmart?
In little towns Walmart is one of the highest employers in town and is the cheapest place to buy what the low income people need. I know I live in one of those town.
I wish this was just a question of paying higher wages. Not such a complex question. We should support the FII. It appears they have a good start.
Walmart is only in business because of their low prices. Walmart has no
other redeeming value.
Walmart employees 1% of America workers- about 2,200,000 persons.
Are these people better off without Walmart?
In little towns Walmart is one of the highest employers in town and is the cheapest place to buy what the low income people need. I know I live in one of those town.
I wish this was just a question of paying higher wages. Not such a complex question. We should support the FII. It appears they have a good start.
3
Chris, what motivates a person to rise out of failure and poverty? What would motivate you to gradually change for the better?
====================================================
For myself, I think it helps to have markers that suggest improvements, step by step, along the way.
In school, we got marks and we handed in papers and other materials, which showed how we were making progress, along the way. We crossed many finish lives in school...
Perhaps people could create scrapbooks, blogs and Facebook pages to show their progress and to use these to guide and encourage others to succeed.
I think it also helps to have simple advice to show what works and what does not work, to other people who are struggling along.
Show and tell demonstrations of success can entertain and motivate ongoing improvements, step by step...
====================================================
For myself, I think it helps to have markers that suggest improvements, step by step, along the way.
In school, we got marks and we handed in papers and other materials, which showed how we were making progress, along the way. We crossed many finish lives in school...
Perhaps people could create scrapbooks, blogs and Facebook pages to show their progress and to use these to guide and encourage others to succeed.
I think it also helps to have simple advice to show what works and what does not work, to other people who are struggling along.
Show and tell demonstrations of success can entertain and motivate ongoing improvements, step by step...
3
Let me add that the work of low paying workers tends not to be noticed and appreciated, step by step. So, people in poverty, with low skilled jobs might tend to feel that their efforts are insignificant.
So, the slow trial and error process of progress may seem discouraging.
But if people are encouraged to record and celebrate their efforts, no matter how small and how mistaken, they might want to keep going on and on, with resilience...
See the book GRIT, by Angela Duckworth.
===============================
So, the slow trial and error process of progress may seem discouraging.
But if people are encouraged to record and celebrate their efforts, no matter how small and how mistaken, they might want to keep going on and on, with resilience...
See the book GRIT, by Angela Duckworth.
===============================
1
A real, data driven, from-the-trenches overview. One thing missing - the many children born into families too "lost" to parent well. Without good adults around them willing to try, these are the most at-risk kids. As an advocate for children in deep-poverty, these are truly unlucky children with terrible home lives, just under the wire of CPS - besides there are not enough quality foster homes. These unlucky children our still our children who need society to step up and care.
14
Kat recall the article a few weeks ago about poor mothers under the thumb of CPS and in fear of losing their kids....My question is: what is the answer? Is it literally billions of dollars to pay for daily tutoring, parenting skills, full college tuition for the poorest of folks (lets not make race a qualification if you want to get the government to agree). plus a bonus for not having or delaying child birth. Or a stick... no payments if you don't try and better yourself.....I think we as a country should make this investment.......But, then the other side (left)will cry paternalism and yea racism.. so what are we supposed to do ? just keep writing the checks for a subsistence life generation after generation.
Also, I never understand the left wing commentators who say things like "capitalism needs poverty" - why? Capitalism relies on consumers, the more these folks have to spend the better consumers they are (see how Proctor and Gamble salivates over China.). and we need workers, lots of them. not prime working age folks sitting down, watching TV and collecting a check. The only capitalists benefiting now are the social workers and poverty "experts".
Also, I never understand the left wing commentators who say things like "capitalism needs poverty" - why? Capitalism relies on consumers, the more these folks have to spend the better consumers they are (see how Proctor and Gamble salivates over China.). and we need workers, lots of them. not prime working age folks sitting down, watching TV and collecting a check. The only capitalists benefiting now are the social workers and poverty "experts".
A "bootstraps" article in NYT? This paper grows more conservative every day...
5
A couple of years ago I moved in with my husband in a poor urban neighborhood where he owns a four-unit house. The area gets a bad rap, but not to the extreme and dramatic degree that outsiders make it out to be, but that's a whole other story.
Anyways, we have gotten to know some of our tenants who are often un-doc Hispanic, and some other neighbors, who like many other people could benefit from this. Our city is still affordable-enough in that they could actually buy their own homes, at least sooner, if they made better financial decisions.
Anyways, we have gotten to know some of our tenants who are often un-doc Hispanic, and some other neighbors, who like many other people could benefit from this. Our city is still affordable-enough in that they could actually buy their own homes, at least sooner, if they made better financial decisions.
2
I am so tired of the New York Times promoting this division of the 'good' and 'smart' poor people and the deserving idiots and scofflaws. Poverty is created. It is maintained. By the Rich. Why not review a book that critiques the system, or the massive redistribution of wealth we've endured from Reagan to the present. That is why so few people 'lead themselves' out of poverty. There is no there there. A few families are holding all the wealth.
17
One thing that is a constant presence in a life of poverty is people who won’t really be there for you over the long term.
5
One of the greatest things that leads to a life of poverty is a single mother raising her children alone. We must somehow start holding the fathers more accountable. Today it is not uncommon for some of these sperm donor Dads to have 8 or more children with multiple women. Don't blame or punish the women and children alone.
19
Al Franken put it a lot better in a New Yorker blog piece recently:
"Every one of my wife’s family made it [out of poverty] because of Pell grants and Social Security survivor benefits and the G.I. Bill. They tell you in this country to pull yourself up by your bootstraps -- we all believe that. But first you gotta have the boots. Franni’s family had the boots. And those boots were provided by the government. And we Democrats believe that we all do better when we all do better. That’s what Paul Wellstone said. And I think we need to start with values, those values. This is about, yes, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. But if you need the boots, we’ll give them to you.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-conversation-with-al-franken-o...
"Every one of my wife’s family made it [out of poverty] because of Pell grants and Social Security survivor benefits and the G.I. Bill. They tell you in this country to pull yourself up by your bootstraps -- we all believe that. But first you gotta have the boots. Franni’s family had the boots. And those boots were provided by the government. And we Democrats believe that we all do better when we all do better. That’s what Paul Wellstone said. And I think we need to start with values, those values. This is about, yes, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. But if you need the boots, we’ll give them to you.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-conversation-with-al-franken-o...
27
I had great assistance. The GI bill. A government program. After dropping out of tenth grade and serving in the Navy I was able to return to school and receive a BS in physics. I am now 90 years old and in comfortable retirement. It wouldn't be comfortable without Medicare.
17
Wonderful ideas in principle. But I think any change has to do with changing perspective. "Seeing is believing."
For example take the word, NO.
========================
This is what poverty and failure is about, being told NO, all the time.
Now, turn NO upside down, and you get ON.
ON is, a more positive action word. So, if we can focus on the change in thinking and action, with words to help, we might see a way of poverty.
"If you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?"
====================================================
(South Pacific)
For example take the word, NO.
========================
This is what poverty and failure is about, being told NO, all the time.
Now, turn NO upside down, and you get ON.
ON is, a more positive action word. So, if we can focus on the change in thinking and action, with words to help, we might see a way of poverty.
"If you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?"
====================================================
(South Pacific)
1
I'm not sure I follow, Harry.
3
This brought to mind the book "Hillbilly Elogy" by D. J. Vance. He makes some of the same points.
5
Lead themselves out of poverty. That sounds like the consensus between Republicans and Democrats. No need for populist left economics. Get DNC spokespeople to just call everyone losers who need to bootstrap.
1
How many trillions have we spent on people with zero initiative?
6
Are you serious? How many trillions go to a few people? I'm sure you think the rich and the well to do are inherently deserving. I don't agree at all, that's an article of faith.
I grew up on welfare and the one thing I can tell you is that this group is not monolithic. People who live on little are very clever, they know the rules, they know how to skate on the edge, work off the books, make just enough to not lose benefits. They will claim their kids have learning disabilities to access more benefits and will share with their friends the magic answers for the questionaires. Often a miminum wage jobs pays little more than their cobbled together benefits and doesn't even pay after childcare costs are factored in. The single most important predictor for poverty is early pregnancy and if you get pregnant at 14, you didn't have much family support to start with. This is not unique to the US, there are NGO's in third world countries that do little more than support a few years of travel for idealistic western kids who believe they are helping. This is what could help IMHO: prevent pregnancy (make birth control free), let people who are poor earn more and have some savings and raise wages. Finally, some people will get out, I got out, Obama got out, but it takes a lot of work. I can tell you one person who would not get out, DJT, why, because he blames everyone else. If he was ever on welfare, he would end up in jail. You don't have to win the parent lottery when you are on welfare, you have to win the social worker lottery, if you get a good one, you are very lucky indeed. Policy and data do not prevent poverty, you help people one person at a time.
17
The Economist identified the single largest conveyor out of poverty in the world over the past two decades - exceeding all charitable initiatives over the past half century.
"Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years. The world should aim to do the same again"
It is quite simply: liberal unfettered capitalism and free trade.
"Nearly 1 billion people have been taken out of extreme poverty in 20 years. The world should aim to do the same again"
It is quite simply: liberal unfettered capitalism and free trade.
4
I grew up in NYC in the 50s and 60s. My father was an achoholic and died when I was 12. My mother was a depression era child in a family of 8 on W. 35st NYC.
We never had a family vacation, a car or a house we could call our own. My uneducated mother did the best she could working as a chambermaid in hotels in NYC.
While we were certainly not privileged, what we did have was a degree of pride and a fairly close family. We never ever met a social worker, never received welfare. In my particular case, after dropping out of school I worked for a Jewish guy who took an interest in me and told me to keep working hard stay off drugs and good things will happen. I ended up owning my own cabinet and furniture employing hundreds of people over the decades. The formula for success does not have to be insurmountable. Educate yourself, work hard, don't marry and have kids too young, don't father children out of wedlock, obey the law.
People need to make good decisions and not always expect others to bail them out. I know the far left NYTimes readers will not like my approach but it has worked for me.
We never had a family vacation, a car or a house we could call our own. My uneducated mother did the best she could working as a chambermaid in hotels in NYC.
While we were certainly not privileged, what we did have was a degree of pride and a fairly close family. We never ever met a social worker, never received welfare. In my particular case, after dropping out of school I worked for a Jewish guy who took an interest in me and told me to keep working hard stay off drugs and good things will happen. I ended up owning my own cabinet and furniture employing hundreds of people over the decades. The formula for success does not have to be insurmountable. Educate yourself, work hard, don't marry and have kids too young, don't father children out of wedlock, obey the law.
People need to make good decisions and not always expect others to bail them out. I know the far left NYTimes readers will not like my approach but it has worked for me.
7
"For the poor to find a way forward, they need confidence in their own abilities."
Or maybe they need money, healthcare, and time with their families.
Or maybe they need money, healthcare, and time with their families.
12
The beauty of America is that it provides opportunity and if you focus on the opportunity instead of the barriers you can accomplish relatively amazing things. That said, it is hard to overstate how helpful a few words of encouragement, inspiration or moral support and just a few bucks or other resources can be if they are made available at the right time.
And the basics of an escape from poverty remain the same now as they were 100 years ago:
1. Stay employed
2. Stay married
3. Stay on the right side of the law
4. Stay unaddicted to drugs or alcohol
5. Get educated, or if you are not then make sure your kids get educated
And the basics of an escape from poverty remain the same now as they were 100 years ago:
1. Stay employed
2. Stay married
3. Stay on the right side of the law
4. Stay unaddicted to drugs or alcohol
5. Get educated, or if you are not then make sure your kids get educated
6
You're very naive.
1
It all depends. Get an education in a job that has a future. Get a job that offers decent pay regardless of race, gender, age, religion, or sexual orientation. Stay employed in a job that offers promotion opportunities, pay raises and benefits. Stay married to someone who isn't or doesn't become a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug addict, violent, mentally ill, abusive, or chronically unemployed. Don't have children who are or might become drug addicts, criminals, alcoholics, violent, mentally ill or chronically unemployed. Don't have parents who are or who might become poor and sickly and require care in their old age. Stay on the right side of the law and live in a safe neighborhood where you won't be arrested for, say, driving your own car while black or brown. Don't do drugs, alcohol, gambling or anything else that will siphon away the family income. And even then, even if you manage to avoid all of these obstacles, there are still no guarantees.
More Tips:
#6 - Be Humbly Open/Ready to Physically Move & Start Over at another lower cost of living, geographical location locally/regionally/nationally/worldwide, where suitable work for one's skill set (even if it means working seasonally on farms or fishing vessels desperate for hired help, or joining the military when one is willing and able to do so - if only to save up, survive, & expand one's worldview, hastening personal/professional maturity until the next step upward) can be found.
Staying put in untenable situations - just because it's all that one knows &/or due to the magical thinking that govt/charities owes people cradle to grave entitlements - is just condemning oneself & family to generational poverty & helplessness.
#7 - Delay impulsive spending to save as much as you can, so you can bounce back up when any/some/all of #s 1 to 6 tips may not always work out.
After all, abusive employers & spouses, corrupt courts & cops, hereditary predisposition to addictions, outdated education ased on state underfunding & for-profit student loansharks, and area boom-bust cycles do exist!
Not all livelihoods need 4 yr degrees & grad school. Lots of job-giving entrepreneurs & in-demand self-employed professionals (ex. plumbers) themselves went the vocational training/apprenticeship routes/career change training/small business boot camps routes.
Positive adaptation fr wisely informed personal choices (ex. not hving kids,
too soon/at all, leaving negative influences) matters
#6 - Be Humbly Open/Ready to Physically Move & Start Over at another lower cost of living, geographical location locally/regionally/nationally/worldwide, where suitable work for one's skill set (even if it means working seasonally on farms or fishing vessels desperate for hired help, or joining the military when one is willing and able to do so - if only to save up, survive, & expand one's worldview, hastening personal/professional maturity until the next step upward) can be found.
Staying put in untenable situations - just because it's all that one knows &/or due to the magical thinking that govt/charities owes people cradle to grave entitlements - is just condemning oneself & family to generational poverty & helplessness.
#7 - Delay impulsive spending to save as much as you can, so you can bounce back up when any/some/all of #s 1 to 6 tips may not always work out.
After all, abusive employers & spouses, corrupt courts & cops, hereditary predisposition to addictions, outdated education ased on state underfunding & for-profit student loansharks, and area boom-bust cycles do exist!
Not all livelihoods need 4 yr degrees & grad school. Lots of job-giving entrepreneurs & in-demand self-employed professionals (ex. plumbers) themselves went the vocational training/apprenticeship routes/career change training/small business boot camps routes.
Positive adaptation fr wisely informed personal choices (ex. not hving kids,
too soon/at all, leaving negative influences) matters
For the poor to find a way forward, they need universal basic income, guaranteed housing, educational opportunity, and medical care.
Fixed the blurb for you.
Fixed the blurb for you.
1
And affordable, reliable, decent day care.
3
I am upset. So I’ll be as charitable as I can be without sacrificing my integrity. This piece is demeaning dog-whistle ‘pick yourselves up by your bootstraps’ fiction and you know who hears it? Blue Dogs who willfully adopt the fiction(s) that poverty is a choice and Republicans who will deny, until their last breath, that our model of capitalism is unfair. I’ve got news for them - it’s not the fault of the poor and the psychological, sociological, and economic data is clear.
The Waterloo of the poor is inequality. It’s inequality of opportunity, education, and income. It’s inequality of race, stereotype, and bigotry. It’s inequality impacted more greatly by the genetic lottery and luck than ‘hard work’ and, what did the interviewee say, ‘getting their lives together.’ Ours is a system, by design, to promote economic inequality and the deck is stacked on top of those at the bottom and Sisyphus has nothin’ on the struggles more than 40,000,000 Americans face.
We honor the poor by having the courage to not lie about the reasons ‘they’ are poor. We live in a Plutocracy that gives voice to white-collar corruption, profit that washs away all sins, and the lie that this is a land of opportunity.
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little” (FDR). Heed this call or hatred & extremism will flourish as our neighbors fight for scraps while the rich go on vacation.
The Waterloo of the poor is inequality. It’s inequality of opportunity, education, and income. It’s inequality of race, stereotype, and bigotry. It’s inequality impacted more greatly by the genetic lottery and luck than ‘hard work’ and, what did the interviewee say, ‘getting their lives together.’ Ours is a system, by design, to promote economic inequality and the deck is stacked on top of those at the bottom and Sisyphus has nothin’ on the struggles more than 40,000,000 Americans face.
We honor the poor by having the courage to not lie about the reasons ‘they’ are poor. We live in a Plutocracy that gives voice to white-collar corruption, profit that washs away all sins, and the lie that this is a land of opportunity.
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little” (FDR). Heed this call or hatred & extremism will flourish as our neighbors fight for scraps while the rich go on vacation.
11
I agree with everything you say. But none of these truths changes anything for poor people (and they are not a heterogenous group) who must deal with the reality of their lives and futures TODAY. I didn't see anything in this article suggesting that important government programs like Medicaid, Medicare, SNAP, Social Security, etc. should be reduced. What I read is that within the reality of the poor today, it is more effective and more helpful to them to find out what is working for others in their same situation, and to ask them what would be helpful to them, not just provide what's available for handing out.
I used to represent poor disabled kids who were seeking services from the state. What they and their parents needed and wanted to make their lives work, to help them become independent, and improve their economic situation bore no relation to what the state or social service agencies offered. For the same or less money, the needed and wanted services would have allowed the entire family to function better, increase their family income, and make their own decisions about their lives.
I used to represent poor disabled kids who were seeking services from the state. What they and their parents needed and wanted to make their lives work, to help them become independent, and improve their economic situation bore no relation to what the state or social service agencies offered. For the same or less money, the needed and wanted services would have allowed the entire family to function better, increase their family income, and make their own decisions about their lives.
It's not a matter of "confidence", it's setting expectations in families to stay together, to value education, and to avoid gangs, drugs, alcohol and gambling.
Sadly, the message from Hollywood is the opposite.
Sadly, the message from Hollywood is the opposite.
4
This article sounds idealistic, but it places the onus on the individual poor person, and not on the way society is structured. It is true that some people work their way out of poverty, but many well-meaning initiatives just shift which poor people wind up making it. The fact that some people can get rich selling street drugs is one rather unpleasant example.
In earlier generations, people worked their way out of poverty by joining unions, increasing the strength of individuals pitted against large rich powerful employers. Nowadays some people are poor because they were bankrupted by medical bills, others because factories moved to lower-wage areas or to robots. In many countries, poverty is alleviated by free child care, parental leave, and universal health insurance. Oh yes, and a living wage.
In earlier generations, people worked their way out of poverty by joining unions, increasing the strength of individuals pitted against large rich powerful employers. Nowadays some people are poor because they were bankrupted by medical bills, others because factories moved to lower-wage areas or to robots. In many countries, poverty is alleviated by free child care, parental leave, and universal health insurance. Oh yes, and a living wage.
11
I feel like we've been here before--the Nixon administration had this rhetoric and although it may have been posturing, considered something like this. There were how ownership initiatives during the Reagan/Bush years to buy public housing. There have been efforts at co-ops going back to the New Deal era. Many of these things worked in some places but not others--my guess is that Miller is not conceding that. His project doesn't sound like it was a randomized experiment or some other rigorous design. A lot of what people need is know and can be delivered in ways that are empowering,. Miller just sounds like another hustler with a book--the kind of person he mocks in the interview.
1
I think that the two major things to lead families out of poverty is not having children out of wedlock and not entering the criminal justice system. Then people can be helped easier with other social services.
4
A lot of us who struggled with poverty had gotten married first, before we got pregnant, to men whom we thought were going to be there until they weren't.
3
A very interesting piece and from someone who has credible experience and great ideas. But politicians will only take the needs of the poor seriously when the poor get mobilized and vote. Voter registration and voter turnout among lower income people are pathetically low. Politicians have such a hard time trying to address the conflicting interests of people who do vote that it's no wonder they ignore the interests of those who don't.
5
Read "The Color of Law" by R. Rothstein. Catalogues the myriad laws enacted by segregationists at the federal, state, and local level to favor whites over African Americans and others. It was not accidental, incidental, or created by individual choice or prejudice, not merely de facto; it was intentional, well-planned, racist--de jure, unconstitutional discrimination--and it still exists thanks to a blind Supreme Court, complicit real estate developers, a corrupt real estate industry, and legislators. Read about today's events and rhetoric in DC for disturbing evidence.
1
Neither white liberal condescending paternalistic pity nor white conservative condescending paternalistic contempt accept the diverse individual human nature and nurture nor agency of persons who are not white European in America.
1
Great article. It takes caring PARENTS who know what they're doing, and a plan.
Mostly though, we pay parents that haven't a clue to have more kids. That should stop immediately.
Mostly though, we pay parents that haven't a clue to have more kids. That should stop immediately.
6
If asked, Mayor Bill De Blasio would push all this off as "Fake News".
What you are describing in this article is the exact opposite of BDB and the City council's agenda. They WANT and cultivate a culture of generational government independence. This keeps them firmly in power. The fact that it does not help New Yorkers is of little concern. They will balk at what I am saying (as will many of the left wing establishment) but its the truth. They may think they are doing good, but they have failed. No the Republicans are not the answer either. The moderate middle where folks are accountable for their actions as adults and we help them to change patterns and continue to educate is the way to go.
What you are describing in this article is the exact opposite of BDB and the City council's agenda. They WANT and cultivate a culture of generational government independence. This keeps them firmly in power. The fact that it does not help New Yorkers is of little concern. They will balk at what I am saying (as will many of the left wing establishment) but its the truth. They may think they are doing good, but they have failed. No the Republicans are not the answer either. The moderate middle where folks are accountable for their actions as adults and we help them to change patterns and continue to educate is the way to go.
3
Maybe not calling people who aren't like you "THE POOR" would be a good place to start.
There is definitely a beneficial role for social workers, and not only for "poor" families. Middle class and even upper middle class people can benefit from their services, too. For example, if Mom or Dad develops dementia, a social worker can assess their needs, help determine what services are available to meet those needs, what funding is available, and how to apply for it. A good social worker is invaluable in negotiating the reams of paperwork and maze of eligibility requirements. The main difference is that when a middle class or wealthier family hires a social worker for this purpose, they usually pay the social worker themselves and therefore do not get treated with a disrespectful, take-it-or-leave it attitude. There is no reason why well-designed programs can't coexist with a more respectful, client-empowering attitude. The key is good management that doesn't tolerate a disrespectful attitude toward the clients, even if they're poor. The approach described here seems to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater to some extent. Oh, and those scholarship programs? People will still need help figuring out which ones they can apply for and how to do so.
2
I agree. Unfortunately Social Worker was used in this article holding stereotypes of "social worker." It is a profession in its own right that does not just follow white paternalism. Social work is broad spectrum and supports an agenda of empowering individuals not disrespecting them. Masters in Social Work training and licensing is all about, empowerment, cultural competency and treating people as individuals regardless of their socioeconomic status. Geesh!
4
Actually, a lot of this sounds like anarchism. Not the anarchy of propaganda which seeks to equate it with chaos, but the anarchism that says you don't need hierarchy to to build community.
Encouraging bottom up organization of community, billing consensus, mutual aid, sharing data with people so they can make their own decisions, and the idea that we all should be leaders in some way, acting voluntarily, instead of through threats of imprisonment or starvation, are all hallmarks of modern anarchism.
I am not convinced that the human race is ready for pure anarchism. The purveyors of greed and violence at the tip of the hierarchy that think the point of any system is to manipulate it to further their own greed at everyone else's expense are too immature.
I don't think we should scrap the constitution, which at least attempts to be democratic. Getting rid of this government would leave something more terrifying in its wake.
I don't believe in scrapping markets. They are often the best way to make decisions. But the owners of machinery should not be making all of the decisions.
I do believe we need to take care of people's basic needs so they can be empowered to be creative and increase their own productivity.
The distant future may be anarchism, but the near future will either be a corporate kleptocracy of the global billionaires, or some combination of markets, socialism, and anarchism that encourages bottom up decision making, with fair security, and a good safety net.
Encouraging bottom up organization of community, billing consensus, mutual aid, sharing data with people so they can make their own decisions, and the idea that we all should be leaders in some way, acting voluntarily, instead of through threats of imprisonment or starvation, are all hallmarks of modern anarchism.
I am not convinced that the human race is ready for pure anarchism. The purveyors of greed and violence at the tip of the hierarchy that think the point of any system is to manipulate it to further their own greed at everyone else's expense are too immature.
I don't think we should scrap the constitution, which at least attempts to be democratic. Getting rid of this government would leave something more terrifying in its wake.
I don't believe in scrapping markets. They are often the best way to make decisions. But the owners of machinery should not be making all of the decisions.
I do believe we need to take care of people's basic needs so they can be empowered to be creative and increase their own productivity.
The distant future may be anarchism, but the near future will either be a corporate kleptocracy of the global billionaires, or some combination of markets, socialism, and anarchism that encourages bottom up decision making, with fair security, and a good safety net.
As a sociologist, and one who works with families who live at or below the poverty level, I agree with Miller's criticisms of programs that infantilize clients and take a sanctimonious attitude when talking to--more often, talking "at"--people who are poor. That said, changing the orientations of social welfare workers and the organizational cultures in which they work, will not solve the problem of poverty. The problem of poverty is simple: poor people don't have enough money to not be poor. We're not honest when we describe the conditions of gross economic inequality and we're not serious about changing the ways wealth and income are distributed.
Moreover, Miller's approach relies on middle-class ways of thinking and average IQs. The approach would do absolutely nothing to help those who have trouble grasping the concepts most take for granted and have limited capacities for personal insight and pattern recognition. In no way do I mean to say that people are poor because they lack intelligence or that most poor people are below average with regard to IQ. I am simply describing an obstacle that many of those I work with cannot overcome.
Moreover, Miller's approach relies on middle-class ways of thinking and average IQs. The approach would do absolutely nothing to help those who have trouble grasping the concepts most take for granted and have limited capacities for personal insight and pattern recognition. In no way do I mean to say that people are poor because they lack intelligence or that most poor people are below average with regard to IQ. I am simply describing an obstacle that many of those I work with cannot overcome.
12
You raise excellent points, H.L. Thank you.
1
“poor families need a great deal of assistance, advice and motivation from professional social workers”
Did you ever meet a social worker with money? Perhaps as well seek some advice from people who have made it “moneywise”. Ask them for some thoughts. What would they do if they were in your situation? They may pass on some tips you that have not thought of, or enough! Soemthing similar happened to me when I was very young, and I remain grateful.
The best lesson had to do with thinking not just about income, but about net worth. It is not just what you take in that counts, but how much of that you manage to squirrel into earning assets. As I was advised: Like it or not we live in a capitalist society. You can't change that, but you can do your best to join it in whatever capacity you are able.
Did you ever meet a social worker with money? Perhaps as well seek some advice from people who have made it “moneywise”. Ask them for some thoughts. What would they do if they were in your situation? They may pass on some tips you that have not thought of, or enough! Soemthing similar happened to me when I was very young, and I remain grateful.
The best lesson had to do with thinking not just about income, but about net worth. It is not just what you take in that counts, but how much of that you manage to squirrel into earning assets. As I was advised: Like it or not we live in a capitalist society. You can't change that, but you can do your best to join it in whatever capacity you are able.
4
How will we ever eradicate poverty as long as our economy depends on the poverty wages of low-skilled labor? Who will wash the dishes? Who will clean the hotel rooms?
This is a crucial element of the "poverty cycle", in which social misfortune drives people into accepting careers of poverty. This creates property markets that segregate entire neighborhoods of people who make low wages, as well as struggle with social issues. Their children then go to school together, where their high stress levels and lack of preparedness compound the struggle to get educated.
Some will always make it out. But they are the outliers, and give lie to the idea that the system is fair or functioning. Worse, they allow us to ignore the fact that we all depend on poverty wages. Efforts to enforce minimum wages that would eradicate poverty are met with an argument that jobs will need to be cut. Even if true, this is an indictment of the economic system.
Truly eradicating poverty and the social ills that it perpetuates requires eradicating our systemic reliance on a low wage underclass. Do that, and you no longer need the plethora of band-aid interventions we've been trying for over a century - charity, jobs programs, education reform, social work, criminal justice reform, drug prevention, etc. You can't create a system in which social ills get condensed, enhanced, ingrained and perpetuated, and then expect to be able to come up with solutions to help people "rise out of poverty".
This is a crucial element of the "poverty cycle", in which social misfortune drives people into accepting careers of poverty. This creates property markets that segregate entire neighborhoods of people who make low wages, as well as struggle with social issues. Their children then go to school together, where their high stress levels and lack of preparedness compound the struggle to get educated.
Some will always make it out. But they are the outliers, and give lie to the idea that the system is fair or functioning. Worse, they allow us to ignore the fact that we all depend on poverty wages. Efforts to enforce minimum wages that would eradicate poverty are met with an argument that jobs will need to be cut. Even if true, this is an indictment of the economic system.
Truly eradicating poverty and the social ills that it perpetuates requires eradicating our systemic reliance on a low wage underclass. Do that, and you no longer need the plethora of band-aid interventions we've been trying for over a century - charity, jobs programs, education reform, social work, criminal justice reform, drug prevention, etc. You can't create a system in which social ills get condensed, enhanced, ingrained and perpetuated, and then expect to be able to come up with solutions to help people "rise out of poverty".
10
Very true. And who will harvest the fruit and vegetables and butcher the meat? I work as a volunteer with an organization that tries to enable low-wage workers to organize themselves on their own terms, and to ask for decent wages and decent treatment. How far can they get when most of them are routinely cheated out of minimum wage and have little or no access to health care? Or part of their family is threatened with deportation? The people who come to see us know, without being told, that the only hope is education for their kids. And many put this goal above all other goals--at the same moment that our public schools are being starved for money and corporations get bigger and bigger tax breaks from local governments. I know parents who work two jobs , and their kids walk to school in the rain because the school bus has been discontinued. So where is the self-confidence to tome from? Self-respect is not the cure for injustice.
3
@Shirley Tomkievicz: Unionized wages could help, temporarily. But as was the case with the former factory workers, in the rust belt town in which I was reared, increased wages do not help when the workplace then is simply exported to low wage countries. Food production also can be outsourced. A very different foreign trade mandate also is required.
4
Why does the summary sentence on the top page read as though the article is saying people are in poverty because they lack confidence? The article is NOT about confidence --- it is about creating an environment in which people who are poor get and share information and help each other to succeed.
6
I was raised by Cuban immigrants who brought with them to this country almost nothing. My sister & I didn't grow up in poverty, because our family before us made difficult decisions and sacrifices to ensure we wouldn't, even though those decisions & sacrifices meant a delayed reward: their children would know an easy life, but they themselves wouldn't. To this day, I cite among the greatest lessons my parents taught me: "No excuses: Life will treat you unfairly, but you never ever come home and use that as an excuse for not having succeeded." Early on, I understood what they meant. My sister & I owe our success to my parents' attitude & parenting approach, both of which left no room for complaining or crying, even justifiably so. I'm sure to many today this may seem cold, even extreme, but I never felt that way growing up. My parents acknowledged uneven playing fields, but encouraged us to run quicker & harder & put a quick stop to any initial complaining. A complaint I have of the left's approach to addressing & combating poverty is, & this'll likely be controversial, the emphasis on political correctness & related "conversations." We all should acknowledge inequity & the flawed institutions & systems that breathe life into it, but we should never ever lay the foundation on which others can make and use excuses for their impasse. Life is unfair; push forward--when you're already at a disadvantage, five minutes wasted on complaining is a detriment to your progress.
12
Has anyone read the book yet? There are no reviews on Amazon as of August 2, 2017. So, no one has been able to challenge or verify the substance of the author's findings.
1
When Families Lead Themselves Out of Poverty It's Highly Unusual as There Is Usually A Reason For Their Plight, And NO, It's NOT Most Of Us
2
Some families have one or more parents with a vision of what must be done to improve the family's circumstances. They possess the innate ability and determination to make the best of their opportunities. Those families will usually find a way to succeed and prosper no matter what program or services are available to them. Unfortunately some families do not have such a parent. In those instances, the parents are often the main problem. Then what can society do to enable self-improvement within the family? For the short term, children of failed parents should be placed in other families or environments , such as boarding schools and orphanages, where basic protection and guidance are more assured. For the long term, birth control should be available to anyone who wants it free of charge. Poorer young adults, like the affluent, should have a chance to get their own lives in order before having children.
5
This article is a great testament to an important principle of Catholic Social Teaching, namely subsidiarity.
Put the power of the choice in the hands of the person needing to make the change. The person in the situation, who is intent on leaving it, knows what to do. He or she can see the way out because the light is at the other end of the tunnel. It can blind the person standing in it (the advantaged), but it is clear as bell to the person stuck in the darkness of poverty.
The Irish immigrants seized an opportunity within their grasp: education.Bingo. No more Irish ghettos. Solidarity gave them a force in politics.
Scholarships, free community college and access to the many good schools (public and private) that our country has already will do more to break the cycle of poverty than any other form of support.
Put the power of the choice in the hands of the person needing to make the change. The person in the situation, who is intent on leaving it, knows what to do. He or she can see the way out because the light is at the other end of the tunnel. It can blind the person standing in it (the advantaged), but it is clear as bell to the person stuck in the darkness of poverty.
The Irish immigrants seized an opportunity within their grasp: education.Bingo. No more Irish ghettos. Solidarity gave them a force in politics.
Scholarships, free community college and access to the many good schools (public and private) that our country has already will do more to break the cycle of poverty than any other form of support.
7
This opinion does not account for the history of racism in lending and housing segregation. My first generation Irish Catholic father went to war at 17, came home and got a job at the phone company, where he stayed for 42 years. He bought a home in a nice suburb and then, due to a personal relationship wtih the banker, got a house on cape cod because the individual in question was willing to take 'a risk' on my white Dad. My Black partner's father, much younger, went to Korea, came home and got a job in the Post Office, where he stayed for 40 years. He could only buy in West Philly, in a neighborhood full of impoverished Black people where he was one of the few men who could get a job. He raised 4 kids (my Dad, 3), rarely took vacation, but was in the Reserves. He served in Vietnam and the Gulf War as well. My Dad lived to 88, Ronnie died of lung cancer at 65, like many of his peers who deployed repeatedly. His house is worth very little. My Dad left us 2 houses that have depreciated through the roof. Racism is real. It persists, obviously, and not just in guys with torches. All of us who work so hard to deny its impact.
6
My sister works at our local library, and speaks rudimentary conversational Spanish. One day, a Latino man with limited English came into the library, and asked my sister if she could help him fill out the online job application for a local retail store. My sister took about 45 minutes to help the man fill out the extremely time-consuming, not to mention confusing, job application. The man thanked her for her help and went on his way. A week later, the same man came into the library with a friend, and proceeded to walk his friend through the same job application process, with minimal assistance from my sister. The local library is on the forefront of providing access for everyone to the tools and resources for job searches, computer training, literacy, ESL, reference, and community programs. Low income families -- like my own family growing up -- can utilize this powerful, respectful, and free force for change, and guide others there as well. Social signaling definitely works, i.e., bringing your friend to the library for help filling out a job application. It's all part of a public library's mission of uplifting the community in which everyone lives.
140
Mapgirl....you and your sister are the salt of the Earth.
Good job !
Good job !
4
What a great comment. I see it in my own community now. I saw it growing up, and I heard from my parents who rose out of dire poverty during the Great Depression. Access to public libraries is rarely mentioned or acknowledged as a powerful force in changing people's lives, but I think it's likely that libraries have helped actually raise more people out of poverty than all the social service agencies combined. I'm not knocking social service agencies, they do their best to keep poor people fed, clothed and housed-laudable work. But rising out of poverty must be the work of the poor, themselves. Libraries provide the tools to them to do that.
2
I'm a public librarian. Many of our citizens are unaware of what we do in public libraries all over the country. Thank you.
3
This fundamentally misrepresents what social workers do. Social workers are also agents of change that work on changing policies and access to scholarhips etc. Social workers don't "give advice He has some good points, definitely scholarships and other access to education and home ownership opportunities are needed, but the whole the market will solve the problem. ("When I go to sylvan I'm asked what I want" ) Is old and tired not new as this article would have you believe. The market will not solve the problems of capitalism, capitalism depends on creating poverty.
5
Check your privilege and delusions please. The USA is one of the most unequal societies in the world and has inherent structural & political barriers to social mobility. Dreams do not pay the bills. A reasonable assessment of the cost of living is about $32,000 in NJ for one adult. How many jobs pay that? The poor can't skip into the Ivy League and Wall Street. Should the poor take comfort in the hope that in a few generations they'll produce a "professional" as your colleague David Brooks once opined?
25
So many American stories start out with parents who would do anything to get their children advantages that they themselves did not have - an education, a decent family life, freedom, safety. It was in some ways terribly sad that many, many millions of people spent their lives in relative poverty and struggle, to make sure their kids turned out better. But sometimes that is the price to be paid for a dream, and yeah, a huge number of those sacrificing parents had a simple dream of their kid graduating from school, getting married, getting a job, speaking English. And yeah, those parents died without anyone remembering them, except for the kids they helped to live in America, and their kids and so on. And yeah, what was true for an Italian stonecutter coming to Barre Vermont in 1907 who died 4 years later from silicosis but whose son sold real estate wand whose grandson got to medical school can still be true for a Vietnamese who came to California in 1991 and worked on other people's fingernails for 30 years and who is seeing a daughter graduate from UCLA in 2017. It happens and it is an occasion not for your scorn but for tears and smiles and hugs and laughter and love and accomplishment.
13
Anything that starts with "check your privilege" goes unread.
2
30 years ago I graduated from a NY state college with a teaching certificate. The 4 years (including room and board) totaled just over $9000, much of which I was able to pay with assistance from a Regent's scholarship, my parents' contribution and summer work. I took a few low interest federal loans which I was easily able to repay over the next 10 years. I made $18,000 in my first teaching position. There was building principal and a District superintendent.
Today the same college will cost 89,000, (the equivalent of) a Regent's scholarship is $500 and federal loans are in the 6% range for 25 years of income-based repayment. A starting teacher (who will be REQUIRED to get a Master's Degree before the end of their 5th years of teaching)in the same school I started in now makes $38,800. Do the math- people cannot step out of poverty in ways of the past!
Today the same college will cost 89,000, (the equivalent of) a Regent's scholarship is $500 and federal loans are in the 6% range for 25 years of income-based repayment. A starting teacher (who will be REQUIRED to get a Master's Degree before the end of their 5th years of teaching)in the same school I started in now makes $38,800. Do the math- people cannot step out of poverty in ways of the past!
100
New York's plan to provide tuition free state college to residents could be the new great equalizer, however.
2
Advice from old folks, like me, must be taken with a grain of salt. but ...
I can remember as a college student being encouraged and coaxed to stay on to pursue a career as an academic, at the college level. I politely declined explaining that I felt the need to earn more than that offered. I chose instead to go into selling. It really did pay much more, even to start -- with much greater opportunities for career advancement based on personal effort rather than waiting in line for someone else to retire. Maybe things are different now. If not, I would do the same over again.
I can remember as a college student being encouraged and coaxed to stay on to pursue a career as an academic, at the college level. I politely declined explaining that I felt the need to earn more than that offered. I chose instead to go into selling. It really did pay much more, even to start -- with much greater opportunities for career advancement based on personal effort rather than waiting in line for someone else to retire. Maybe things are different now. If not, I would do the same over again.
Are there not community colleges that cost a quarter of that and give the same degree?
1
What Miller is describing is how the funding process circumscribes what one can do. This happened in the sciences with NIH grants. If you wanted to start something new the rating system prevented it. You had to have experiments to back things up before you got funded for it but if you didn't have funding you couldn't do the experiments. The same thing has happened with helping people. We don't help people where they are or with what they need help with.
If you are poor the assumption in America is that you are stupid and don't know how to manage your life. If you are unemployed it's assumed that you are incompetent, need to be told how to look for a job, etc. The internet has made it even easier to screen people out of society or out of the running for a job. What has happened in America, and probably the rest of the world that uses the internet, is self selection. We know that the processes don't work for us so we avoid them after we've been sufficiently discouraged. Then we're lectured to about how lazy or incompetent we are.
When a person needs a job that pays a decent wage and they've worked before, they don't need lectures on how to look for jobs or how behave on the job unless they've had those sorts of issues before. Poor people don't need sympathy or lectures: they need to make more money and they want their children to succeed. While people think money won't solve anything they don't know how often money is needed to start solving things.
If you are poor the assumption in America is that you are stupid and don't know how to manage your life. If you are unemployed it's assumed that you are incompetent, need to be told how to look for a job, etc. The internet has made it even easier to screen people out of society or out of the running for a job. What has happened in America, and probably the rest of the world that uses the internet, is self selection. We know that the processes don't work for us so we avoid them after we've been sufficiently discouraged. Then we're lectured to about how lazy or incompetent we are.
When a person needs a job that pays a decent wage and they've worked before, they don't need lectures on how to look for jobs or how behave on the job unless they've had those sorts of issues before. Poor people don't need sympathy or lectures: they need to make more money and they want their children to succeed. While people think money won't solve anything they don't know how often money is needed to start solving things.
31
Well said!
I have seen the failed efforts of Michigan's FIA (Family Independence Agency, which today is described in the Internet as a business in the field of human services), which in the 90s battled against families' attempts at earning money and becoming independent; their clients were instead controled, and intimidated, even persecuted, with home inspection in search of suspicious evidnence of unreported wealth, and their earnings above their original level were partially confiscated, making them resort to hiding the meager extra income they were able to earn in the vacuum of real employment opportunities the agency cared to seek or foster for them or the real educational programs extended to them, making the poorest of the poor live in fear of social workers who traumatized adults and children alike, tearing families apart instead of acting as arbiters seeking family union and progress. Such entities should indeed disappear and be replaced by the local family-driven entities, methods, and systems promoted by Mauricio Lim Miller, which free up families from fear, and allow them to prosper, providing them with a proper chance of achieving the American promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
10
This is done at all levels of the social services strata. There is constant borderline harassment or straight out belligerence towards those who receive any kind of subsidy or benefit. Poor people are constantly under threat of losing any type of dollar given to them. Social service workers and providers hate the poor they serve and are seen as the enemy by poor people. Housing is the worst. Being threatened to becoming homeless is constantly strong armed by those who micro manage those living in subsidized housing. The amount of people employed by 'social services' must be about the same as those receiving them. This must stop and services must be more centralized and combined. Wasted tax dollars. The resentment and judgement must also be curtailed.
4
Yes. THIS.
1
Bang on! At least from my perspective and experience. Right now I am working on a podcast about gleaners - low income people who gather and distribute food and firewood to needy families - and I find them t be intelligent, hard working, compassionate people who have lots of good ideas about how to help themselves and others better their lives. As one of the gleaners told me during an interview "if we work together, we can feed multitudes" and "I don't want anyone giving me anything unless it is on my birthday". If we listen to the poor, hear what they think about how best to change their lives and then provide them with the technical assistance they ask for to implement the changes they identify, they will surprise us with their energy, hard work and compassion.
13
Miller sounds like he's running a social experiment but insists on recreating the wheel rather than read what others have done before. For all his urging to "trust the poor", he eventually realizes "We have millions of data points, and we can start making our own predictions and recommendations."
And what are these novel recommendations ? "When I get my kids tutors at Sylvan Learning Center, they ask, “Do you want tutors in the evening or afternoon? " So education is key. Who would have thought it ? Over 31% of the poor have not even finished high school. It shouldn't take a million data points to realize this is a problem.
Having said that, he does bring up two key points on how to convey this message (rather than the message itself):
1. Dependence - "And families come to see that the more needy you are, the more eligibility you have." This is the liberal message - the "soft bigotry of low expectations". As Miller stated, we encourage people to appear needy and unable to help themselves - that's how you get rewarded in our welfare system.
2. Social Signaling - Again, it's not rocket science that education helps extricate someone from poverty. But the issue is social acceptance or rejection of certain behaviors. In times past, having a child without being married was considered a sign the woman was promiscuous or the man was irresponsible. Being "on the dole" was embarrassing. Miller found that "signaling" success creates "fear of missing out". That's key.
And what are these novel recommendations ? "When I get my kids tutors at Sylvan Learning Center, they ask, “Do you want tutors in the evening or afternoon? " So education is key. Who would have thought it ? Over 31% of the poor have not even finished high school. It shouldn't take a million data points to realize this is a problem.
Having said that, he does bring up two key points on how to convey this message (rather than the message itself):
1. Dependence - "And families come to see that the more needy you are, the more eligibility you have." This is the liberal message - the "soft bigotry of low expectations". As Miller stated, we encourage people to appear needy and unable to help themselves - that's how you get rewarded in our welfare system.
2. Social Signaling - Again, it's not rocket science that education helps extricate someone from poverty. But the issue is social acceptance or rejection of certain behaviors. In times past, having a child without being married was considered a sign the woman was promiscuous or the man was irresponsible. Being "on the dole" was embarrassing. Miller found that "signaling" success creates "fear of missing out". That's key.
6
You appear to have mistaken his point about tutors - he said that when he gets tutors for his own family, he is asked how they can work into his life (i.e., time of day). When tutors were offered as a service through his program, that flexibility wasn't offered; it was a take-it-or-leave-it situation. That is, even though tutors were provided, the context for providing them was completely different and left the families receiving the programs less engaged. He isn't saying making a point that "education is needed"; he is making the point that engaging those receiving services in how and what to receive allows them to be more involved and hold themselves accountable
12
Actually the left just wants to provide people with necessities that they can't afford in their current situation, so they can lift themselves out of poverty without hunger, disease and injury, and a lack of education standing in their way.
It is the right that wants to make every social program into a demeaning tool for social control, along invasive questions, looking for any excuse to cut programs and benefits and trying to reduce help for anyone that doesn't have lobbyists to zero.
The fair and forward looking thing to do world be to giant everyone a basic income they can use to buy food, free healthcare and free education, and build modern infrastructure so everyone gas high speed internet, nearly free renewable energy, and a way to get to work.
Then people could be motivated by a sense of purpose in their work, Mastery of their skills, and a sense of autonomy in directing their own productivity.
That would get government out of the way, giving everyone an equal start, without punishing children for the sins of their parents, and dooming large parts of the population to poverty.
And since the markets, left to their own devices will eventually fire every human and replace them with artificial intelligence, democracy will have to go this way eventually..
It is the right that wants to make every social program into a demeaning tool for social control, along invasive questions, looking for any excuse to cut programs and benefits and trying to reduce help for anyone that doesn't have lobbyists to zero.
The fair and forward looking thing to do world be to giant everyone a basic income they can use to buy food, free healthcare and free education, and build modern infrastructure so everyone gas high speed internet, nearly free renewable energy, and a way to get to work.
Then people could be motivated by a sense of purpose in their work, Mastery of their skills, and a sense of autonomy in directing their own productivity.
That would get government out of the way, giving everyone an equal start, without punishing children for the sins of their parents, and dooming large parts of the population to poverty.
And since the markets, left to their own devices will eventually fire every human and replace them with artificial intelligence, democracy will have to go this way eventually..
1
Could you stop blaming the left for everything. At least, the left recognizes that there is poverty in this country. But neither side has had significant solutions to the problems. The Right, on the other hand, is very good at feeding the top 1%.
This approach may indeed be helpful in moving some individuals and families out of poverty, however it is defined -- and our official definitions have little to do with local costs of obtaining the most modestly defined minimums in the way of housing, food, transportation, health care and other essentials.
But they do nothing to change the structural things in our economy that produce poverty, and nothing to reduce the total number of people impoverished.
Thoreau would recognize this as nibbling at the leaves, rather than seeking out the root of the problem and eradicating it.
We have structures that enrich some people at the expense of others. Moving oneself to being in the group that gets enriched doesn't reduce the number of people in the group whose don't receive the full fruits of their labor.
The best material for understanding the nature of the problem -- recognizing that root, so as to be able to hack at it (in Thoreau's words) -- comes from the writings of Henry George, author of, among other things, "Progress and Poverty" and "Social Problems." Worth your time.
But they do nothing to change the structural things in our economy that produce poverty, and nothing to reduce the total number of people impoverished.
Thoreau would recognize this as nibbling at the leaves, rather than seeking out the root of the problem and eradicating it.
We have structures that enrich some people at the expense of others. Moving oneself to being in the group that gets enriched doesn't reduce the number of people in the group whose don't receive the full fruits of their labor.
The best material for understanding the nature of the problem -- recognizing that root, so as to be able to hack at it (in Thoreau's words) -- comes from the writings of Henry George, author of, among other things, "Progress and Poverty" and "Social Problems." Worth your time.
17
I see your point, but consider - at a time when car dealerships are desperate for mechanics, willing to pay them as they train them post high school, able to make $100,000 before they are thrifty, the military offers some great career pathways and college tuition, the unemployment rate is low, there is little excuse for a healthy youngster born in our society to "fail" or be consigned to a life of poverty if they have an intact, sober family and access to a decent safe k-12 education. It's hard to see how any program, even this creative one, changes that trajectory when our society does little to discourage women from having children before they are 21, let alone 30 and established in a job.career, skills; almost glorifies single parent families, extolls consumerism over savings ("only stupid people save", you get rich by borrowing and speculating, right ?), and fails to provide a decent k-12 education nay longer for so many kids.
2
That "college tuition" is a joke, though - it doesn't even cover costs at a community college or in-state tuition at a state university.
1
Mr. Miller's point about the race to the bottom for needy people seeking help is well taken. I saw it many times as a social worker in the south.
What I didn't see mentioned was the importance of family attitudes. People who feel downtrodden and hopeless may not believe that they can achieve a better life, socially or economically.
My grandparents came to this country a century ago with nothing. Three of them died when my parents were children. Their best legacy to their children was a belief in hard work. Therefore, my parents, who did not finish high school due to poverty and family situations, worked hard. After many years, they achieved both financial and social success.
Most importantly, they always believed their children would attend college, even though they could not pay for it. All three of us did so, paying our way. I got a master's degree, the other two bachelor's degrees. We were all successful socially and economically in our fields.
Likewise, the children of a developmentally delayed client of mine went to college. While I did not keep in touch with them, I have to believe this was a step forward for this family as well.
This belief that the children can advance is missing in many low-income families. We have to find a way to help them believe in themselves and their children. The first step is to show that it can be done, with a lot of hard work and determination.
What I didn't see mentioned was the importance of family attitudes. People who feel downtrodden and hopeless may not believe that they can achieve a better life, socially or economically.
My grandparents came to this country a century ago with nothing. Three of them died when my parents were children. Their best legacy to their children was a belief in hard work. Therefore, my parents, who did not finish high school due to poverty and family situations, worked hard. After many years, they achieved both financial and social success.
Most importantly, they always believed their children would attend college, even though they could not pay for it. All three of us did so, paying our way. I got a master's degree, the other two bachelor's degrees. We were all successful socially and economically in our fields.
Likewise, the children of a developmentally delayed client of mine went to college. While I did not keep in touch with them, I have to believe this was a step forward for this family as well.
This belief that the children can advance is missing in many low-income families. We have to find a way to help them believe in themselves and their children. The first step is to show that it can be done, with a lot of hard work and determination.
12
Belief that children will do better may be more universal in new immigrants - why else would they come? - than in families who have been too long in poverty and see no way out and who may not have any models of success to inspire them.
12
Your point is well-taken; however, I believe the term you did NOT use in reference to "many low-income family" is "hopelessness."
We have tended to view poor families in the US in the same way the West as a whole looks at adults in '3rd World' countries. We do not believe that they can, in fact, solve their own problems or direct their own lives. So, we have imposed rules and programs and decisions.
The political right has worked from the assumption that the poor are lazy, lack character, and must be treated harshly, i.e., left to suffer the consequences. So they want to end government programs (often spoken of as a way to "help" people stand on their own), but offer little to offer support.
The political left, though recognizing the myriad threads which drive someone to poverty, has often failed to credit the poor with intelligence, motivation, and a work ethic. Yet, many poor in this country work low-wage jobs struggling to survive. Supporting individuals and families to solve their own problems within their communities sounds like a positive direction. Not all will succeed, but then what we have been doing has been broken for a long time.
The political right has worked from the assumption that the poor are lazy, lack character, and must be treated harshly, i.e., left to suffer the consequences. So they want to end government programs (often spoken of as a way to "help" people stand on their own), but offer little to offer support.
The political left, though recognizing the myriad threads which drive someone to poverty, has often failed to credit the poor with intelligence, motivation, and a work ethic. Yet, many poor in this country work low-wage jobs struggling to survive. Supporting individuals and families to solve their own problems within their communities sounds like a positive direction. Not all will succeed, but then what we have been doing has been broken for a long time.
14
Interesting. I will check out the book.
Any program that helps empower folks is worthwhile to look at.
Any program that helps empower folks is worthwhile to look at.
2
At the risk of sounding simplistic:
• a family raises itself out of poverty in real time when the father is able to find a good paying job and he devotes his life to working very, very hard.
• children raise themselves out of poverty for the next generation by having a mother who devotes her life to making sure they succeed (a 20-year job).
• a family raises itself out of poverty in real time when the father is able to find a good paying job and he devotes his life to working very, very hard.
• children raise themselves out of poverty for the next generation by having a mother who devotes her life to making sure they succeed (a 20-year job).
12
So are you saying that the life of a girl is defined by motherhood, and that men must be the ones to go out into the world? How limiting for both both genders and for us all.
20
Too bad most jobs don't pay enough to support a family so that a parent can stay home with the children if they want to.
3
What if I don't have a father?
2
I humbly offer so ideas and advice.
1. Your mindset has to be positive if you are going to achieve anything. It doesn't hurt to talk to people if you are down. Ask for help. Do not be proud.
2. You have to access any and all programs, initiatives ,grants, hand outs, financial aid that is designated for people in your situation. Every dollar, or opportunities for assistance will help to contribute to your plan
3. Reduce your overhead. Your greatest expense is going to be your rent. IF you are just starting out, then coastal cities are not necessarily going to be the best place to do so. The goal is home ownership as soon as possible.
4. Invest in yourself now. If that means living a modest existence, while you invest in your future through education, then do so.
5. Save. This last bit of advice might seem ridiculous to you ~ compound interest is your friend. If me ancestors could do it, then so can you,
Good luck.
1. Your mindset has to be positive if you are going to achieve anything. It doesn't hurt to talk to people if you are down. Ask for help. Do not be proud.
2. You have to access any and all programs, initiatives ,grants, hand outs, financial aid that is designated for people in your situation. Every dollar, or opportunities for assistance will help to contribute to your plan
3. Reduce your overhead. Your greatest expense is going to be your rent. IF you are just starting out, then coastal cities are not necessarily going to be the best place to do so. The goal is home ownership as soon as possible.
4. Invest in yourself now. If that means living a modest existence, while you invest in your future through education, then do so.
5. Save. This last bit of advice might seem ridiculous to you ~ compound interest is your friend. If me ancestors could do it, then so can you,
Good luck.
11
You're fired.
The system IS the problem and once an individual/family finds themselves there, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to get out. It IS based on deficits rather than the assets/gifts the "client" possess, and that deficit mentality carries over into many other areas of the person's life. I have always found it incredibly arrogant to think that I could possibly know what you need, what would help your family be successful. This is precisely why I have refused to participate in that type of social work since attaining an MSW many years ago, choosing teaching and advocacy work instead. I am just thrilled to learn of Mr. Miller's work and look forward to reading his book. I may even pick up an extra copy to send to our Governor!
7
If you want to get people out of poverty, raise their wages. It's as simple as that.
Our society operates on an unfounded belief that the poor are poor because they refuse to work. Of course, there are individuals to whom this applies. But this is the United States, where it's possible to work hard full-time and still be very poor. If we want to make progress against poverty we need to make work pay again.
Our society operates on an unfounded belief that the poor are poor because they refuse to work. Of course, there are individuals to whom this applies. But this is the United States, where it's possible to work hard full-time and still be very poor. If we want to make progress against poverty we need to make work pay again.
91
Spot on! It is called - to earn a living wage. Why is that concept so hard for people in this country to understand and except?
6
I absolutely agree with this approach. 15+ years ago I was a volunteer visitor for inmates in the county jail; having been incarcerated I knew that a day with a visit, from anyone, was better than a day without. I would not, however, try to sell any idea, religion, mindset, etc. My task was merely to show up regularly for my inmate and "actively listen" to whatever they felt like saying. No service, no advice, no condescension, just rephrasing what I heard them say. Mr. Miller seems to be extending this to the family level.
20
The model Family Independence Initiative is using is very parallel to Alcoholics Anonymous. There are no counselors there; alcoholics help each other, both in groups and one on one, via sponsorship. The fellowship sustains new members and those with a great deal of time (I have 22+ years). It's understood that only another person who is an alcoholic can help another alcoholic with his alcohol problem... and also with all the characteristics about herself/himself that need to be changed. And great things happen: lives improve, incomes go up, families are reunited, or begin to thrive. I'm really excited to see this model being applied to families in poverty which creates the same despair and hopelessness that addiction does.
7
I agree change has come within the social structure. All we here today is we need more programs and money. It seems we have done that and it hasn't solved the problem. The Thea's on his book or in the article is Family. One needs to be able to maintain or build a strong supportive family structure. Although I have no facts to support this it seems the key to sucess. This to me is the building block. Hopefully it will be the structure to reduce other related problems such as violence, teenage pregnancies, drugs in the low income communities
I like this idea and plan to learn more about this organization; however, I find the characterization of "programs" misses the mark.
Mr. Lim Miller has designed a tool to help people get out of poverty. But most social programs we can name are not intended to help people out of poverty - they are meant to prevent suffering for people who are very poor: provide basic medical care, food, or some income to help with housing. TANF, SNAP, UI, Medicaid - they are just some limited support in times of trouble. None of these things will help a person out of poverty, they simply keep the person from dying or losing what little they have.
Most people don't want to stay on programs, dependent on others, with little freedom. I laud this organization for trying to actually show people how to improve. But maligning the programs for not doing something that they aren't designed to do is not fair either.
Mr. Lim Miller has designed a tool to help people get out of poverty. But most social programs we can name are not intended to help people out of poverty - they are meant to prevent suffering for people who are very poor: provide basic medical care, food, or some income to help with housing. TANF, SNAP, UI, Medicaid - they are just some limited support in times of trouble. None of these things will help a person out of poverty, they simply keep the person from dying or losing what little they have.
Most people don't want to stay on programs, dependent on others, with little freedom. I laud this organization for trying to actually show people how to improve. But maligning the programs for not doing something that they aren't designed to do is not fair either.
12
It is good that modern society is trying out every conceivable approach to eradicate poverty. Having said that it is regrettable that the greatest solution to poverty - education - is not getting the attention it deserves. Societies such as South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore have shown that an emphasis on rigorous education can propel a society from poverty to great prosperity in a very short period of time. What is more, may of these East Asian societies were also poor in mineral resources.
American society indeed emphasises education a lot. But unlike other successful educational systems around the world, the US educational system is watered down. It does not focus enough on academics. Moreover, unlike other countries, American society tends to stigmatize intellectual inclination or nerdiness in children. Educational systems that focus on academics and intellectual cultivation tend to be more successful. But American educational system is riddled with fads and frivolous reforms, many of which are even anti-intellectual. American schools, therefore, tend to perpetuate poverty rather than reduce it. https://medium.com/@rs3/ad-astra-per-aspera-be7198657e3e
American society indeed emphasises education a lot. But unlike other successful educational systems around the world, the US educational system is watered down. It does not focus enough on academics. Moreover, unlike other countries, American society tends to stigmatize intellectual inclination or nerdiness in children. Educational systems that focus on academics and intellectual cultivation tend to be more successful. But American educational system is riddled with fads and frivolous reforms, many of which are even anti-intellectual. American schools, therefore, tend to perpetuate poverty rather than reduce it. https://medium.com/@rs3/ad-astra-per-aspera-be7198657e3e
21
I applaud the focus from the author on initiative and community-based self-support for many kinds of opportunity. Scholarships and loans are an excellent approach, as well as helping find ways to communicate good information. But also there needs to be some monitoring, regulation with teeth, and solid advice to poor families on how to avoid the flocks of predators - scamming lenders, for-profit trade schools, etc - that smell the money available for such loans and scholarships, and quickly gather to exploit every aspiring parent. Only in fairly established communities can companies like Sylvan build a reliable reputation and customer base. Families and communities that are too stressed and full of transience, low English skills, and many issues of recent immigrants etc will always be vulnerable. Well subsidized basic health care, that includes diagnosis and treatment formental health, and good public education, with strong ELL and remedial programs, remain critical foundational anti poverty programs, no?
4
Tamil Nadu, a state in India, had literacy rate less than 12 % around independence, 1947! people found that educated persons lived better than illiterate or less educated. more the higher education they lived a far better life. then came Kamaraj its Chief minister around 1956! he introduced paradigm shifting educational policy of free education couple with free lunch, it set the tone for increased literacy every year continuously. literacy made family planning to be appreciated, and take care of health better, and reduced the social prejudices. it is on upward development swing compared to other states of equal population in India. Nehru, the Indian PM at that time, was an oxbridge graduate and a barrister. but he could not appreciate the effect of better education in national development.
5
"Martin Luther King Jr. wrote that the paternalism of white moderates may be a greater barrier to fundamental change than outright racism."
Yup, allowance is for children. Adults want respect.
Yup, allowance is for children. Adults want respect.
14
Funny that he doesn't mention the most obvious solution: pay people a living wage for their labor.
125
I'm reminded of the time when, as a divorced mother living in poverty, I had to see a court-appointed financial counselor to show me how to budget and pay my bills. After we went over my own detailed budget (the joke is, I was a bookkeeper) and of course, my lifestyle choices, she said, "you're already doing everything right. You just need to make more money."
128
Imagine...
4
But won't paying people more money lead to household expenditures like, housing, food and transportation becoming more expensive, which would ultimately put the poor back in the same situation: not having enough money for housing, food and transportation? What are conscientious, caring persons supposed to do?
In my opinion Mr. Miller's efforts are well thought out and make sense but they do not seem to scale very well.
I would point to the difference between Social Seecurity and Medicare on the one hand and TANF (aka welfare), SNAP (food stamps) and Medicaid on the other hand. When people of all income and social strata are the beneficiaries the system for administering those benefits is nonjudgmental, nonpaternalistic and indeed customer service oriented. The income gated programs do not have those characteristics. I'm going to make a conceptual jump here and say that in my extended visits to Sweden I saw that the reason their so-called welfare state works reasonably well is that everyone is entitled to almost all and uses most of its benefits.
Paradoxically, if we suddenly overhauled our tax and entitlements system to implement more universal benefits and pay progressive-rate taxes rather than insurance premiums or fees we would solve many problems that working class citizens are having. We depend entirely too much on charity and one-off government grants to fund for some what should be basic services for all citizens. Am I hopeful this will soon come to pass? No.
I would point to the difference between Social Seecurity and Medicare on the one hand and TANF (aka welfare), SNAP (food stamps) and Medicaid on the other hand. When people of all income and social strata are the beneficiaries the system for administering those benefits is nonjudgmental, nonpaternalistic and indeed customer service oriented. The income gated programs do not have those characteristics. I'm going to make a conceptual jump here and say that in my extended visits to Sweden I saw that the reason their so-called welfare state works reasonably well is that everyone is entitled to almost all and uses most of its benefits.
Paradoxically, if we suddenly overhauled our tax and entitlements system to implement more universal benefits and pay progressive-rate taxes rather than insurance premiums or fees we would solve many problems that working class citizens are having. We depend entirely too much on charity and one-off government grants to fund for some what should be basic services for all citizens. Am I hopeful this will soon come to pass? No.
75
The difference between TANF, SNAP and Medicaid and SS (and Medicare) is that the first three are WELFARE, that go to the indigent poor.
The second two are INSURANCE PROGRAMS that people participate in for a lifetime. I am 61, I have paid into SS and Medicare since my first job at age 15 -- 46 year ago! -- and I have yet to take out one penny of benefits so far.
People who get welfare have paid in nothing, as most have never had jobs and start out poor -- the most common recipient is a unwed teenage single mother with dependent children.
I do agree that the Scandinavian and socialist nations get widespread acceptance because literally everyone gets benefits -- but the cost of this is very high taxation.
You may prefer this Scandinavian system -- most American liberals swoon over it -- but Americans are not likely to embrace 65% income tax rates nor 28% VATs any time soon.
The second two are INSURANCE PROGRAMS that people participate in for a lifetime. I am 61, I have paid into SS and Medicare since my first job at age 15 -- 46 year ago! -- and I have yet to take out one penny of benefits so far.
People who get welfare have paid in nothing, as most have never had jobs and start out poor -- the most common recipient is a unwed teenage single mother with dependent children.
I do agree that the Scandinavian and socialist nations get widespread acceptance because literally everyone gets benefits -- but the cost of this is very high taxation.
You may prefer this Scandinavian system -- most American liberals swoon over it -- but Americans are not likely to embrace 65% income tax rates nor 28% VATs any time soon.
1
It is simple but not easy. First have no children you can't properly raise, this means almost no poor people should have children. Next stay out of trouble, that means no drugs, criminal actions, gangs, etc. Get an education that is consistent with your abilities and capabilities. Then work hard and get assistance, your church, your community, your family, etc. It is how it has been done in the past.
31
This argument of limiting family size, delaying parenting, of going childfree has some merit but not when it's used to bash the poor and 'blame the victims'. It ignores the reality that birth control and even abortion are the battle ground of the religious and political right and the pressures to defund women's reproductive health care. (How many ways can the GOP try to defund Planned parenthood?
And note the 'foreign' influence of Evangelicals and conservative Catholics to pressure the GOP Congress to eliminate birth control because it conflicts with their doctrines. I used the word 'foreign' above because the Catholic right's marching orders come from Rome; and Evangelicals are intruding on private matters that are the purview of women and couples. Also this intrusion of the Right pertain to the State and our "wall" of separation between church and State. The Federal government should keep religionists from trying to control women's choices).
And note the 'foreign' influence of Evangelicals and conservative Catholics to pressure the GOP Congress to eliminate birth control because it conflicts with their doctrines. I used the word 'foreign' above because the Catholic right's marching orders come from Rome; and Evangelicals are intruding on private matters that are the purview of women and couples. Also this intrusion of the Right pertain to the State and our "wall" of separation between church and State. The Federal government should keep religionists from trying to control women's choices).
4
And since nobody is willing to do that, it will never happen.
Having children out of wedlock is THE income source for a huge swath of the American public, who live off of welfare benefits -- including many illegal aliens.
When welfare gives you $35,000 in benefits for having 2-3 illegitimate children -- but the only job you qualify for is Walmart cashier or home health aide ($8-$9 an hour, no benefits), you would need to be INSANE to take the lousy job for half the pay and lose your 100% FREE health care under Medicaid!
Having children out of wedlock is THE income source for a huge swath of the American public, who live off of welfare benefits -- including many illegal aliens.
When welfare gives you $35,000 in benefits for having 2-3 illegitimate children -- but the only job you qualify for is Walmart cashier or home health aide ($8-$9 an hour, no benefits), you would need to be INSANE to take the lousy job for half the pay and lose your 100% FREE health care under Medicaid!
1
You could argue that the first time a person applies for food stamps she should see a social worker so that there is an official record of how she got to be so broke and because an interview at that time might reveal family violence or drug problems that could be helped.
Most people are not aware that there are no housing benefits for poor adults who don't have minor children living with them. So poor adults don't generally see social workers at all unless there are children. The social workers are there for the children and make recommendations about whether they should be removed from the home.
Most people are not aware that there are no housing benefits for poor adults who don't have minor children living with them. So poor adults don't generally see social workers at all unless there are children. The social workers are there for the children and make recommendations about whether they should be removed from the home.
16
Great idea about people applying for food stamps to meet with a social worker. It just might help them, but how many will report that it's because they work for Walmart, owned by the chiseling Walton billionaires??
1
That is not true. I personally know single adults who get priority for Section 8 housing -- because they are on SSDI for minor ailments.
One gentleman is 56 years old, and has been on SSDI since he was 24. He is so fit and strong, he competes in bicycle racing. He gets so much on SSDI that he has several expensive titanium racing bikes, money for fees to enter races and travel to them -- he lives with a rich girlfriend, so he keeps the EMPTY Section 8 apartment to store his bikes and racing equipment.
I am not kidding; this is not some urban legend. This is someone whom I know and I have seen the half-empty apartment with bicycles stored in it. He brags about this, openly. He admits he is not physically disabled, but he does have "social anxiety" which fortunately for him "comes and goes", so he can attend bike races, vacations with the rich girlfriend, parties and weddings, without any problem.
He is very typical of those on SSDI, and YES, they qualify for public housing and are actually "ahead of the line" even though families with children are waiting!
One gentleman is 56 years old, and has been on SSDI since he was 24. He is so fit and strong, he competes in bicycle racing. He gets so much on SSDI that he has several expensive titanium racing bikes, money for fees to enter races and travel to them -- he lives with a rich girlfriend, so he keeps the EMPTY Section 8 apartment to store his bikes and racing equipment.
I am not kidding; this is not some urban legend. This is someone whom I know and I have seen the half-empty apartment with bicycles stored in it. He brags about this, openly. He admits he is not physically disabled, but he does have "social anxiety" which fortunately for him "comes and goes", so he can attend bike races, vacations with the rich girlfriend, parties and weddings, without any problem.
He is very typical of those on SSDI, and YES, they qualify for public housing and are actually "ahead of the line" even though families with children are waiting!
1
When my father returned home after serving in World War Two to our home in Tennessee, all he had was a small farm and two mules. Knowing that he could not properly care for his family there he moved us north to where the steel mills were. We were soon joined by most of my uncles and aunts as they were in the same situation. He only had a fourth grade education but back then that was good enough to get a good job, which he did. He stayed at that job for many years which enabled me to be the first in my entire extended family to eventually go to college and graduate. Now my son is a physician. This progress through the generations was accomplished with little if any outside assistance. It was made possible because of my father's willingness to work hard and to rely on himself, not others.
24
And it was made possible by the fact that his wages in the steel mills were living wages, most likely negotiated by his union. And if it was a nonunion shop, it still needed to pay wages similar to the union wages because they competed for labor.
61
In some cases, especially in those days, working hard may not have been enough. Without knowing your particular details, there were many hardworking men in those days who saved their money, bought a house in a better neighborhood with better schools, providing a better life for their descendants in the process. There were other men that worked just as hard, saved just as much money but were denied a mortgage or the ability to buy in better neighborhoods. That had an impact on their descendants, too.
52
When our fathers returned from WWII, there was a GI Bill of Rights, and full working economy. I would suggest that we both benefited overtly from those elements to move from poverty in your case and working class poor in my case, to both have children who are physicians in this generation, our fathers' grandchildren.
But we are exceptions, not the rule.
The opportunities for the many to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is truly quite limited. The steel mills are long gone.
There will always be poverty. And an underclass. Helping adults who make repeated poor choices (four kids, four different fathers for example) seems a waste of time, money and effort. But the four children did not ask to lose the parent lottery. Should they be thrown away? Or do they get well baby checkups, basic nutrition, pre-k and public education?
An endless debate. I don't have the answers. But one answer is not "I did it, why can't they? as a reason to cut off support to the neediest.
But we are exceptions, not the rule.
The opportunities for the many to pull themselves up by their bootstraps is truly quite limited. The steel mills are long gone.
There will always be poverty. And an underclass. Helping adults who make repeated poor choices (four kids, four different fathers for example) seems a waste of time, money and effort. But the four children did not ask to lose the parent lottery. Should they be thrown away? Or do they get well baby checkups, basic nutrition, pre-k and public education?
An endless debate. I don't have the answers. But one answer is not "I did it, why can't they? as a reason to cut off support to the neediest.
55
Interesting ideas, and perhaps the start of a conversation well worth having, but I see caution lights--this is precisely the sort of argument that Calvinist/Social Darwinist conservatives like to co-opt to argue against any sort of government program, or even private charity, at all.
Great care must be taken to ensure that this isn't just seen as a signal to gut any sort of funding for poverty reduction initiatives, on the grounds that "they'll only provide negative incentives to the poor anyway". I can see the conservative think tank pieces now--"Even Liberals have no concluded anti-poverty programs remove incentive from poor to better themselves".
Great care must be taken to ensure that this isn't just seen as a signal to gut any sort of funding for poverty reduction initiatives, on the grounds that "they'll only provide negative incentives to the poor anyway". I can see the conservative think tank pieces now--"Even Liberals have no concluded anti-poverty programs remove incentive from poor to better themselves".
51
No responsible person argues against charity, in fact many support it.
2
Your reaction to someone who managed all sorts of anti-poverty initiatives saying "traditional social services don't work" is "let's make sure we don't defund any traditional social services?" Bold strategy Cotton
1
I like this program.
There is a phrase for what Mr. Miller is describing, "the bigotry of low expectations." Well meaning advocates for the poor treat them like they are incapable, perpetual victims in need of an expert to solve all their problems.
That is a major problem for modern liberalism, because it permeates so much of left thinking about minorities and the poor.
There is something else as well. To participate in a program like this, the family members must be smart, have a strong sense of self, and be emotionally and mentally healthy enough to develop their own programs to improve their family's well being.
As was mentioned, this is how previous generations of the working class (including the working poor, and regardless of race) operated, but something has gotten lost among too many.
I can't help but think that social programs are often meant to give bureaucrats and social service workers jobs rather than give real help and empowerment to the people who need it.
If the recipients are not in the system, the funding will disappear, and the jobs as well.
There is a phrase for what Mr. Miller is describing, "the bigotry of low expectations." Well meaning advocates for the poor treat them like they are incapable, perpetual victims in need of an expert to solve all their problems.
That is a major problem for modern liberalism, because it permeates so much of left thinking about minorities and the poor.
There is something else as well. To participate in a program like this, the family members must be smart, have a strong sense of self, and be emotionally and mentally healthy enough to develop their own programs to improve their family's well being.
As was mentioned, this is how previous generations of the working class (including the working poor, and regardless of race) operated, but something has gotten lost among too many.
I can't help but think that social programs are often meant to give bureaucrats and social service workers jobs rather than give real help and empowerment to the people who need it.
If the recipients are not in the system, the funding will disappear, and the jobs as well.
37
Barbara, the "logic" of this comment is exactly what another person said to beware of: that this non-program gets used to justify providing nothing! As if doing nothing is the same thing as this program which provides feedback. Just another excuse for the wealthier amongst our population to do less and less until social and economic Darwinism appears in its most raw and egregious form. Back to the Future -- 18th century style.
12
The cynicism of your comments and your desire to bash liberals and bureaucrats gets ahead of common sense. The "tyranny of low expectations" is part and parcel of the thinking of many of the GOP, namely, as a neighbor's boss told his cohort, "keep 'em poor and you own them". The wealthy, the top 1% need and rely on cheap labor for their profits. Downward mobility, even for the middle class has increased and the gap between rich and poor increases to pre-Great Recession levels.
Ms. James would do well to not attribute low wages and no jobs to 'liberals'. Let's start valuing all people and their potential and stop hating on the poor and putting obstacles in their path. If we come together and cooperate and collaborate, we can ameliorate this situation. Politicizing the problems ensures that nothing will change.
Ms. James would do well to not attribute low wages and no jobs to 'liberals'. Let's start valuing all people and their potential and stop hating on the poor and putting obstacles in their path. If we come together and cooperate and collaborate, we can ameliorate this situation. Politicizing the problems ensures that nothing will change.
Group think is a very powerful tool. I too grew up poor but when I decided to get my financial situation in order because I was tired of being poor I found others who had the same goal. We were able to bounce ideas off of each other and cheer each other on and within two years we were out of debt and had some savings.
LBJ created the programs for the war on poverty with the best of intentions. Sadly not all of the programs worked as intended. Hopefully these findings can be used by a future administration to change how we approach poverty and mobility in our country. Thanks for trying something new after two decades and finding a new approach that works.
LBJ created the programs for the war on poverty with the best of intentions. Sadly not all of the programs worked as intended. Hopefully these findings can be used by a future administration to change how we approach poverty and mobility in our country. Thanks for trying something new after two decades and finding a new approach that works.
31
Did you grow up in Oregon, Ami? I did, and I grew up in poverty as well. One thing that Oregon did that helped me a great deal is the two semesters of comprehensive personal finance education required in high school. I learned a lot there about the traps that my parents were flailing in, and how to avoid them. I left high school understanding things like credit cards and car buying that my parents were pretty daft at managing, and it made a huge difference.
13
These are values that teachers often model, not only in the classroom. They ask students what's the best way to learn this or solve that, and when they see other students coming up with different responses the effect is electrifying. The capitalist/consumerist model preaches spending every cent you can earn or borrow, to "drive the economy," but when I suggest putting a $20 bill in their wallets and leaving it there for a year, just for practice, a light comes on. They get it: it starts with them.
6
Come now only idiots believe that they should spend every cent. Now some poor people don't make enough to save a lot but an emergency fund can be gotten by almost anybody.
7
Looking for your suggestions on how someone with serious medical issues that cost $200 a month, no dental, and no optical coverage can "save up an emergency fund" on the $13,000 a year that you have to live on.
OH AND YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT AND STILL GET SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY.
OH AND YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE A SAVINGS ACCOUNT AND STILL GET SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY.
15
You are a sad example of paternalistic "advice" givers that this program calls out as fools. You have no idea what it is like to live on disability payments of less than $15,000 a year, and you might learn from the experience. Oh, and medicare doesn't cover dentistry or glasses - so just let your teeth rot out, hon. Its good for your soul.
2
The US has one of the worst levels of social mobility in any developed nation.
Interestingly, the Nordic nations, and Canada do well in terms of social mobility. Miles Corak has some research on it and there is a chart the Brookings Institution publishes.
See:
https://www.brookings.edu/research/thirteen-economic-facts-about-social-...
The reality is society in America is rigged versus the poor. That's the problem. There are huge social, economic, and cultural barriers that most people who are poor cannot easily cross.
The values Mauricio Lim Miller are totally the antithesis of American capitalism in its current form. They are the values that America should have - one that values egalitarianism, but tragically the US has been moving in the opposite direction.
Interestingly, the Nordic nations, and Canada do well in terms of social mobility. Miles Corak has some research on it and there is a chart the Brookings Institution publishes.
See:
https://www.brookings.edu/research/thirteen-economic-facts-about-social-...
The reality is society in America is rigged versus the poor. That's the problem. There are huge social, economic, and cultural barriers that most people who are poor cannot easily cross.
The values Mauricio Lim Miller are totally the antithesis of American capitalism in its current form. They are the values that America should have - one that values egalitarianism, but tragically the US has been moving in the opposite direction.
33
Well I think the poor rig themselves. They have children, do drugs, and other things.
6
I know rich people who have children, do drugs and other things like leave their first wives and children and get younger wives and younger children and leave the old wife to raise his older children on a reduced income while he and the new wife live like royalty. Remind you of anyone?
28
That is very misleading. Canada "does well" because their immigration policies let in a lot of educated Asians and southeast Asians who are "poor on paper" -- perhaps graduate students -- but who will in a few years be wealthy. They also COME from wealthy families back in China and India, who send their children to colleges in Canada (and the US) to get a toehold in the New World.
So when that Asian grad student, who is ranked "poor" because they only earn $20K part time while in grad school, gets a real job and is suddenly earning $200K as a software engineer....it LOOKS like they have catapulted from poverty to upper middle class, but it is deceptive. This is NOT the "poor huddling masses yearning to breathe free" but a new generation of affluent children of the wealthiest in their third world countries!
The US has this also, but our population mix is very different than in Canada, with fewer Asian proportionately.
What drags our stats down is our huge underclass of poor urban blacks and hispanics, as well as the dispossessed rural white poor of Appalachia.
So when that Asian grad student, who is ranked "poor" because they only earn $20K part time while in grad school, gets a real job and is suddenly earning $200K as a software engineer....it LOOKS like they have catapulted from poverty to upper middle class, but it is deceptive. This is NOT the "poor huddling masses yearning to breathe free" but a new generation of affluent children of the wealthiest in their third world countries!
The US has this also, but our population mix is very different than in Canada, with fewer Asian proportionately.
What drags our stats down is our huge underclass of poor urban blacks and hispanics, as well as the dispossessed rural white poor of Appalachia.
Work while everyone else parties, study while they sleep.
You may not want to hear it, but there is an equation to this.