The alt-right motto is 'No Apologies' fine.
The response is 'No Appeasement'.
Bannon, Duke & Trump do we look like Neville Chamberlain?
Things have moved along since the 1940's.
The response is 'No Appeasement'.
Bannon, Duke & Trump do we look like Neville Chamberlain?
Things have moved along since the 1940's.
Stop. Giving. Them. A. Platform. Please.
2
They know Trump supports them. As one said of Trump's condemnation of racism, “I expected him to backtrack” --and, sure enough, he did.
3
At times I get the feeling that these cowardly, small men think that "the Left," whatever they consider that to be, are a bunch of kale-eating hipsters that they can intimidate and bully. Speaking for myself, that's pretty far from the truth. I'm not looking for violence, but I m not going to sit by and watch these thugs trample this country. Have a feeling many others might feel the same.
7
This is so sad. Why are people racists? Humans learn their lessons slowly, if at all.
1
DNA testing? Their family trees are all stumps (with apologies to Mono Nixon).
3
Come on Boston, the world will be watching!
5
If former President Obama had denounced radical Islam, instead of dancing around the elephant in the room, President Trump would have never happened.
1
Obama denounced Radical Islam through his actions and words. He's the president who executed Bin Laden, remember?
25
Oh for crying out loud. Enough with 'it's all Obama's fault'. Own up to your own mess and stop blaming others.
9
Messaging matters. Do better, please:
Trump's Brown-shirts.
The Republican strongest Activists.
call them that; don't buy into their self-flattery to see themselves as 'alt-right', as the newest advancement past William F Buckley's efforts.
Messaging matters; do better at it.
Stop dignifying Trump's whiny Twitter tantrums -- they are not a weather event, not a force of nature, not a "twitter storm".
No--our President wasted his hours to
"squirt out a stream of ugly tweets"
He does it almost daily.
Flush them away: don't study them.
Trump's Brown-shirts.
The Republican strongest Activists.
call them that; don't buy into their self-flattery to see themselves as 'alt-right', as the newest advancement past William F Buckley's efforts.
Messaging matters; do better at it.
Stop dignifying Trump's whiny Twitter tantrums -- they are not a weather event, not a force of nature, not a "twitter storm".
No--our President wasted his hours to
"squirt out a stream of ugly tweets"
He does it almost daily.
Flush them away: don't study them.
12
The article describes a "Confederate-era statue", but that is an error that must be corrected: it was erected some 60 years after the Civil War ended, which makes invocations of "context" even less excusable.
16
These groups feed off conflict and attention. As much as I want to get right in the faces of these people, (their presence at my alma mater was infuriating) that's not the ultimate way to defeat them. By not ignoring them but showing up, en masse, to silently protest their presence we can fully expose them and their ideology and then if they want to up the ante with violence, society can put them where they really belong. Otherwise the next conflict will escalate to even more violence and they'll draw more attention and motivation from each encounter.
7
I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere. Cities must be able to prohibit helmets, shields, clubs, backpacks, etc. at allegedly peaceful protests. You can say whatever you wish, but check your weapons at the door.
14
NY Times - stop calling it "Far Right" and "Alt Right". It white supremacy, its Neo Nazis, it's a racist movement.
20
"Preston Wiginton"? Is this the white equivalent of "Malcolm X"?
2
I am especially worried about the number of guns owned by private citizens in this country. Open carry laws exacerbate these alt right marches. An angry young man used a car as a weapon. What if he was carrying an assault rifle? The police have to deal with armed marchers at these events.
How can people not be intimidated by a group that is based on hate, has legal access to guns and no self control. I blame the conservatives for selling out to the NRA and creating this situation. I am losing hope for our country.
How can people not be intimidated by a group that is based on hate, has legal access to guns and no self control. I blame the conservatives for selling out to the NRA and creating this situation. I am losing hope for our country.
11
In my entire life I don't think I have ever read or heard the term "Left Wing Extremists" in any media, I guess they don't exist here in America. It was probably just some random street people clashing with the Neos last weekend. This latest battle was made up of extreme left and extreme right wing groups that all are over the top. The current problem is that no peaceful dialogue exists today. I am not picking sides but only saying there is no dialogue. TV is made up of tag team progressives in news, TV shows, late night, and media outlets. No peaceful discussion of social issues is allowed. When was the last time you saw a meaningful discussion from both sides on immigration, race, gender issues, climate change etc? Whomever is not down with the progressive ideology is punished. No discussion will be allowed.
4
Then I gather that until the Republicans clarify, conservatism or the “far right” is simply undisguised white supremacy. No leadership has stepped forward to have us believe differently, and they certainly aren't denouncing their president in word or deed. Frightening and sick.
6
And let's not kid ourselves. This White Nationalist movement is the tip of a "conservative" spear working restlessly to vanquish the rest of us by warping our system of education, the airwaves and legislation.
When Reagan/Bush decided to keep the USSR out of Afghanistan, they resorted to organizing and funding fundamentalist Muslims, who then grew into al-Qaeda and ISIS.
When George W Bush needed votes to beat Al Got, his campaign organized and legitimized the Religious Right as a political movement, and the call to tear down the wall of separation of church and state has since been growing louder and louder.
President Swamp is on board with allowing America to be warped by whomever will give him power, and the crackdown against those "liberal strongholds" -- higher education, public education, unions and media representation -- is no longer a cultural movement, but organized, funded and legitimized by the US Government.
When Reagan/Bush decided to keep the USSR out of Afghanistan, they resorted to organizing and funding fundamentalist Muslims, who then grew into al-Qaeda and ISIS.
When George W Bush needed votes to beat Al Got, his campaign organized and legitimized the Religious Right as a political movement, and the call to tear down the wall of separation of church and state has since been growing louder and louder.
President Swamp is on board with allowing America to be warped by whomever will give him power, and the crackdown against those "liberal strongholds" -- higher education, public education, unions and media representation -- is no longer a cultural movement, but organized, funded and legitimized by the US Government.
9
Call them out for what they are. They are American terrorists fighting under the supposition that white people are disenfranchised. What they do not care to realize is that if economic times are bad for them, they are bad for all of us. But place the blame where it belongs. Corporate greed moved jobs overseas. The desire for greater profits took precedence over loyalty to long time skilled workers through loopholes for the H-1B Visa program that has opened the door to importing cheap labor. Add to that the increased use of robotics. The well paid American worker with a steady guaranteed income has become a dinosaur.
5
How on earth does the writer conclude that the far-right is "energized"? There are many other adjectives you can use -- insane, racist, ignorant, hateful, violent, sexist, and more -- to describe the far-right or alt-right. But "energized"? Energized by what? Certainly not by public opinion -- which has overwhelmingly expressed its dismay. Certainly they are not energized by the truth, or by justice.
3
Attention, Jeff. And the turnout in Va.
2
You missed my point.
1
I saw that you were holding down both sides of a conversation in your comment but repeatedly asking a question (even if it is solely for rhetorical effect) will invite an answer.
shame on the United States of America, if people feel their economic needs are not met then contact your local governments to take your needs and wishes up the political line further. Hate does nothing more then raise fears.
1
The liberal far-left is responsible for this! They pushed out all the moderate democrats in party and went all in on identity politics. LGBT car dealerships and "farm to table" food for homeless! You're either with us or against us- and if you are against us- that makes you a racist.
President Trump was right- not every torch older in Charlottesville was a white supremacist. Many of them were alienated Democrats who voted for Obama twice.
President Trump was right- not every torch older in Charlottesville was a white supremacist. Many of them were alienated Democrats who voted for Obama twice.
1
I wouldn't worry about the political origins behind such marchers, dear boy, as we foreigners have a crystal-clear term for every last one of those torch-bearers: Thugs.
Whether they were Democrats or Republicans, neo-Nazis or proto-fascists or white supremacists or anti-semites - I wouldn't worry so much about their make-up Aaron, as we just see each and every last one of them as a dangerous thug to oppose. Even if your President seems utterly incapable of doing so.
Whether they were Democrats or Republicans, neo-Nazis or proto-fascists or white supremacists or anti-semites - I wouldn't worry so much about their make-up Aaron, as we just see each and every last one of them as a dangerous thug to oppose. Even if your President seems utterly incapable of doing so.
3
"In 2 years we'll have 10,000 people marching". Oh wow. It took 2 months for the Women's March with half million women. We win.
9
At Trump's "press conference" yesterday, he was surrounded by pasty faced white men, who grinned and snickered when Trump pointed and called reporters "fake news". Identical to the white men rallying with torches and shields. These regressive morons are not just marching on our streets, they are occupying our White House. If you are not outraged....
8
The next step would be to topple every mosque that talks about killing infidels - it is akin to a symbol of hate and intolerance. Mosques have become launchpads of hate against Jews and Christians. http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/07/25/davis-islamic-center-under-fir....
1
Some are going to be professional protestors, Others are eyeing public office. One has to assume that Stephen Bannon is by now accustomed to the perks of position and power and therefore belongs to the office seekers. Which office, do you thin? President? Senator from somewhere deep south?
1
In the near future, the democratic Germans will be fighting and hopefully defeating American nazism.
5
We now witness the risks of inbreeding!
2
Having just seen "Dunkirk" and being reminded that several individuals in the British War Office at the time suggested making "terms" with Hitler to save their pinned-down army (Churchill, thankfully, told them to stuff it), it is worth a few sobering moments to realize that all it takes is the right leader at the right time to make the unthinkable possible. Till now, the fragmentation of the far right, and as some in the movement have noticed as well, the presence of the "loonies" and neo-Nazis that discredit the movement with citizens who might otherwise be privately sympathetic to the identity politics being played out here, has protected us from what occurred in Europe in the 1930s.
But all it takes is one leader who sees the mistakes, quietly stops making them, repackages, gets rid of the obvious idiots sporting plastic Viking shields (son, please turn the calendar over and see what century this is, and really you don't look like Chris Hemsworth as THOR in that hair) to turn things, especially in eras of economic uncertainty.
So far, we have been lucky: that leader hasn't come along. But bear in mind that although Le Pen lost in France, the FN got more votes than it ever had before, and Le Pen pushed out in the first round all the other establishment and far left candidates. The Sweden Democrats are holding on at a steady 20%. In Hungary, the Jobbiks are moving toward the center to appeal to more voters.
There is no such thing as the unthinkable.
But all it takes is one leader who sees the mistakes, quietly stops making them, repackages, gets rid of the obvious idiots sporting plastic Viking shields (son, please turn the calendar over and see what century this is, and really you don't look like Chris Hemsworth as THOR in that hair) to turn things, especially in eras of economic uncertainty.
So far, we have been lucky: that leader hasn't come along. But bear in mind that although Le Pen lost in France, the FN got more votes than it ever had before, and Le Pen pushed out in the first round all the other establishment and far left candidates. The Sweden Democrats are holding on at a steady 20%. In Hungary, the Jobbiks are moving toward the center to appeal to more voters.
There is no such thing as the unthinkable.
5
All teachers need to review Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens
1961 Cornerstone Speech with their students in which he describes a "improved" Constitution whose " corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. " Anyone who thinks the Confederacy stood for anything else is in denial. That they want to preserve statues of men who fought for this painful and horrifying fact in our country’s history and not look at the truth of what they were fighting for leaves me dumbfounded.
1961 Cornerstone Speech with their students in which he describes a "improved" Constitution whose " corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition. " Anyone who thinks the Confederacy stood for anything else is in denial. That they want to preserve statues of men who fought for this painful and horrifying fact in our country’s history and not look at the truth of what they were fighting for leaves me dumbfounded.
3
Dear NYT,
You throw the "white supremacist" moniker around painting everyone on the Alt-right as Nazis. Richard Spencer, face of a part of the Alt-right, is not a white supremacist. Nazis, KKK, and Vanguard are white supremacists. Spencer is a "white identity" supporter. White supremacy and white identity are two very different and separate ideologies.
White supremacists argue for the subjugation of non-whites because they believe whites are superior to non-whites. A "white identity" person like Spencer however does not believe in white supremacy nor argues for white supremacy. It is important to know the distinction. Spencer is arguing from a position of conservation where he wants to preserve white culture and people because Asian, African, Latino already argue the same for their groups' interest.
I think that because our political system of identity politics, begun by Democrats in the 60s and 70s, is now coming full circle no one should be surprised by whites who argue for the same thing as all other groups. The tired argument of the Left where minorities, by definition, cannot be racist because whites hold all the power, is now collapsing. If that Leftist fallacy were true, there would be no need for a white identity because whites would, by definition, go a head and use the system to do whatever they want up to and including genocide. White supremacy is an infantile and destructive ideology and your use of it to define everyone is not accurate nor realistic.
You throw the "white supremacist" moniker around painting everyone on the Alt-right as Nazis. Richard Spencer, face of a part of the Alt-right, is not a white supremacist. Nazis, KKK, and Vanguard are white supremacists. Spencer is a "white identity" supporter. White supremacy and white identity are two very different and separate ideologies.
White supremacists argue for the subjugation of non-whites because they believe whites are superior to non-whites. A "white identity" person like Spencer however does not believe in white supremacy nor argues for white supremacy. It is important to know the distinction. Spencer is arguing from a position of conservation where he wants to preserve white culture and people because Asian, African, Latino already argue the same for their groups' interest.
I think that because our political system of identity politics, begun by Democrats in the 60s and 70s, is now coming full circle no one should be surprised by whites who argue for the same thing as all other groups. The tired argument of the Left where minorities, by definition, cannot be racist because whites hold all the power, is now collapsing. If that Leftist fallacy were true, there would be no need for a white identity because whites would, by definition, go a head and use the system to do whatever they want up to and including genocide. White supremacy is an infantile and destructive ideology and your use of it to define everyone is not accurate nor realistic.
5
You really don't know Asians if you think they are a consistent interest group. Arabs, Tahitians, Japanese and Istanbul residents east of the Bosporus fall under that ridiculously vague category.
I wonder if the best way to confront them is will boom boxes all paying laugh tracks and other silly sounds. Treat them and their parades as the silly circus they are. They trive on a negative reactions, let's give them a silly one.
12
That's brilliant. Unfortunately a lot of the people who showed up to oppose the race kooks in Va had helmets and sticks and, in some cases, assault rifles. Boom boxes with laugh tracks would have been a far more superior and appropriate weapon against these ridiculous imbeciles.
to Gavin McInnes:
That's right, you are in a lose-lose situation. That's because your ideology is on the losing side of history. Stay home, lick your wounds, and stop blaming people who don't look like you for your own misfortunes.
And to Preston Wiginton:
Of course the First Amendment applies to White people, but it doesn't guarantee anyone a forum, nor protection from being criticized. The university must protect safety, so find somewhere else to spout your hatred, comfortable in the knowledge that you cannot be imprisoned for merely doing so out loud.
That's right, you are in a lose-lose situation. That's because your ideology is on the losing side of history. Stay home, lick your wounds, and stop blaming people who don't look like you for your own misfortunes.
And to Preston Wiginton:
Of course the First Amendment applies to White people, but it doesn't guarantee anyone a forum, nor protection from being criticized. The university must protect safety, so find somewhere else to spout your hatred, comfortable in the knowledge that you cannot be imprisoned for merely doing so out loud.
12
If ISIS were just an ideological movement and committed no violence, they would be protected by the Constitution. But their history says otherwise, so we are hunting them down.
The same can be said of the KKK, the Nazis, and White Nationalists from many nations (e.g., Anders Breivik who murdered 77 fellow Norwegians a few years ago).
Why do we let these violent gangs continue to establish themselves and flourish?
They certainly don't in Germany.
And just a few weeks ago Trump said, "We can eliminate MS-13 and root out the criminal cartels from our country."
How are the White Supremacists any less of a threat to American society?
The same can be said of the KKK, the Nazis, and White Nationalists from many nations (e.g., Anders Breivik who murdered 77 fellow Norwegians a few years ago).
Why do we let these violent gangs continue to establish themselves and flourish?
They certainly don't in Germany.
And just a few weeks ago Trump said, "We can eliminate MS-13 and root out the criminal cartels from our country."
How are the White Supremacists any less of a threat to American society?
16
They exits more and more openly in Germany.
1
The decades of racism and bigotry promoted by the GOP, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh has now come to life, a 21st Century Frankenstein threatening the very existence of democracy and humanity in America. It is hypocritical to call your country the United States of America when it is so obviously not and has not been for some time, if it ever truly was, The end of the Civil War has only been a tentative truce marked by continuing skirmishes. If you the people do not unite and deal once and for all deal with this stain on your history then your country will never achieve what ti thought it has stood for since it's inception.
7
If there has been anything positive out of Charlottesville this week, it's the increased focus on this movement. I find myself wanting to know as much as I can about what has motivated people to follow this dark path. The time has come for all of us to get informed, speak out, and reach out to those who have chosen this afflicted path. Demonizing these people will only feed into their narrative.
What concerns me more than this small segment of our society is those who encourage them with divisive and hate-filled messages. I'm mindful of my evangelical parents whose minds are constantly fed by Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Fox News and Breitbart amongst others. Their views are often closely aligned with what we hear from these right wing extremists, and that has shaken me to my core. It seems to be a slippery slope. These massive right wing megaphones have been highly successful in agitating a significant percentage of our electorate, and the results have given us a lot of angry people and Trump, a man driven by anger. There are also equally destructive voices on the left. The blame game will never bring us together, and a more thoughtful approach is needed. Our Twitter fueled shouting matches filled with endless propaganda will only succeed in generating more civil unrest. Perhaps it is time for all of us to look inside ourselves and ask a simple question: What can I do to make the world a better place?
What concerns me more than this small segment of our society is those who encourage them with divisive and hate-filled messages. I'm mindful of my evangelical parents whose minds are constantly fed by Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Fox News and Breitbart amongst others. Their views are often closely aligned with what we hear from these right wing extremists, and that has shaken me to my core. It seems to be a slippery slope. These massive right wing megaphones have been highly successful in agitating a significant percentage of our electorate, and the results have given us a lot of angry people and Trump, a man driven by anger. There are also equally destructive voices on the left. The blame game will never bring us together, and a more thoughtful approach is needed. Our Twitter fueled shouting matches filled with endless propaganda will only succeed in generating more civil unrest. Perhaps it is time for all of us to look inside ourselves and ask a simple question: What can I do to make the world a better place?
3
Sorry in this time it's not equal on both sides. It's the thuggish right.
5
You are absolutely wrong; there are NOT equally destructive voices on the left; not unless you consider Rachel Maddow's self-satisfied prattling and smirking as equivalent to 30 years' worth of Fox News, Limbaugh and GOP propaganda. The left has condemned this talk and its demagogues all along, sometimes strongly, but there is no matching precedent on the left for what has been happening in the hate-filled, dumbing-down, race-baiting rhetoric on the right. To say otherwise is just politically correct equivocation.
4
"It seems like the First Amendment doesn’t apply to white people"... (Wiginton). No, it does apply to white people. It does not apply to hate speech and starting an insurrection. And, while it does apply to whites (as well as all others), it does not eliminate the requirement that you also "own" what you say and are responsible for the consequences of your speech.
11
It takes two to tango. Trump correctly pointed out today that the "fake media" only mentions the Alt-Right. No one mentions the uninvited, permit-less Left. They should be charged with tresspassing. Trump did call them out, but again the media tries to blame ONLY the Alt-Right.
The Alt-right was there to protest the removal of the staue of Robert E. Lee. George Washington owned slaves. Are his statues next?
I no longer support the deviant-Left. They are trying to push their agendas on everyone else.
Go Right!
The Alt-right was there to protest the removal of the staue of Robert E. Lee. George Washington owned slaves. Are his statues next?
I no longer support the deviant-Left. They are trying to push their agendas on everyone else.
Go Right!
1
Twp words: Wes Bellamy
With First Amendment rights there are responsibilities. Indeed there are with all rights. The alt.right, or whatever you wish to call them, forfeited their rights in Charlottesville by their behavior and obnoxious beliefs. If they choose to run for office they certainly can and it is up to us to defeat them at the polls.
Any further "planned" demonstrations like the one we just witnessed have to be very carefully controlled to ensure the rights of those who dissent to do so without fear of personal injury or death. Trump could have spoken out forcefully at the at outset, but he did not thereby confirming that his base is the obnoxious un-American group that professes so much hatred.
Any further "planned" demonstrations like the one we just witnessed have to be very carefully controlled to ensure the rights of those who dissent to do so without fear of personal injury or death. Trump could have spoken out forcefully at the at outset, but he did not thereby confirming that his base is the obnoxious un-American group that professes so much hatred.
2
Those hate groups should require a DNA test for all members. A lot of them would be disappointed that they are not snow white after all... They are welcomed to commit suicide for the sake of purity.
12
As much as I oppose the alt-right, I agree we should think twice about counter-protesting, and I disagree with the idea that there is some truism or principle that compels us to counter-protest. We absolutely need to eradicate the alt-right, but we need to approach the problem practically, pragmatically, strategically. These face-offs always seem problematic. Why not let them march with the police guarding, then when they are gone, have 10X as many people marching against them? I think it's more powerful to see a square filled with peaceful people then to see skirmishes between small groups.
24
People in Colorado Springs are fighting back against VDARE which has a conference planned next April 19-22 at a local resort. We don't want that group assemblying in our town! And since April 20th is Hitler's birthday, kinda tells you what their plans are? We all must fight back against hate and intolerance.
8
From our Declaration of Independence. It does not say we have to be white, Christian, male, or anything else for it to apply to all of us. Nowhere in that declaration does it exclude people because they are African Americans, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, LGBTQ, Asian, Hispanic, or even ex-convicts.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
2
So the Republican Party, using coded language sows the seed via the Southern Strategy, nurtures the embryo via talk radio, religion, training institutes, Fox News, and then exclaims in astonishment when their monster comes out of the shadows.
12
The police have no problem arresting unarmed BLM protesters. Remember the image of Iesha Evans a year ago? The nurse and mother was photographed standing stock still, alone in the street, wearing a flowing summer dress as police in riot gear approached her, dragged her away, and arrested her.
But show up in a city armed, white, covered in swastikas, heiling trump, and hurling racial epithets, and the police will stand by and watch. You can return to your normal life on Monday morning, with the blessing of your president. White supremacy. White privilege. It's all problematic.
But show up in a city armed, white, covered in swastikas, heiling trump, and hurling racial epithets, and the police will stand by and watch. You can return to your normal life on Monday morning, with the blessing of your president. White supremacy. White privilege. It's all problematic.
15
Wow-nailed it!
3
Charlottesville's contentious Robert E. Lee statue, together with its monumental stone base, should be donated for placement at the Winter White House, Mar-a-Lago, to be enjoyed there by its owner, both now and when out of public office. For Lee and his trusty steed, perhaps a location mid-fairway would be ideal, valiantly galloping across the greensward. (Inspired, the gazing, love-struck owner might even lower his vaunted handicap.) The extremist rededication party, guns optional, could be the absolute highlight of the busy Palm Beach social season. What fun!
7
It's disturbing to see so many reporters packed into the Spencer's "office." While we cannot ignore these finks, we also don't need to legitimize them. Every one of them are trolls looking for attention and nothing more! Next time they come to your town, organize a silent protest. No more raging counter protests. We can do better. Every time you shout back at an alt-righter or pen a story about him (no matter how negative), you're doing him a favor.
3
I am getting quite tired of this response. These people are rising in power. It is an alarming problem and to ignore it is foolish and detrimental to our country's well-being.
2
ON the other hand, the farther right they move, the smaller the number of voters who will vote for them.
1
We made similar generalizations about Trump which were completely miscalculated. It seems the further right the rhetoric has drifted, the more extremists have come out of the shadows, emboldened. Whether or not they vote is only part of the problem, if they can intentionally provoke the type of trouble as happened in Charlottesville and is happening elsewhere.
Those who are the 'same' clump together. Hateful ideologies under the pretense of marginalization does not create a conduit for sensible public dialogue. This is no different. On the other hand - if you wish to succeed, show what you are made of, get educated, study law, work towards changing your life, bring issues to public forum, discuss without brandishing guns, rods, punches and hateful speeches.
Communal solutions require empathy, understanding and dialogue. But who listens when it is easier to blame others for one's failures?
Communal solutions require empathy, understanding and dialogue. But who listens when it is easier to blame others for one's failures?
No marches down Cottage Grove?
How about this idea? If you want to stage a counter demonstration, show up, form a circle around these idiots, and turn your backs toward them. Don't confront them. Don't even say a word. Hold signs, if you wish. But just a circle of people, standing peacefully, and silently rejecting their ideology. It would send a more powerful message, with less danger of violence.
If Trump thinks he can "shoot someone and not lose any votes", then what's keeping him from thinking his followers could run his critics over with a car and he still not lose any votes? Nothing. I think it gives him some satisfaction or pleasure that his followers would his "dirty work" for him.
1
I think this is a wonderful progression of events.
Bring these horrible beings clearly, brightly, prominently into the light of day. Let us hear all of their words and understand what they represent. Let us see the hatred that is seared across their faces. Let us absorb their symbols of hatred and bigotry, their flags, their colors, and yes, their guns. Let there be no doubt, no facade of moral equivalency left standing.
Force all Americans and all Republicans to take a stand. The Republican Party has subtly and not-so-subtly nurtured and turned a blind eye to these un-American, unchristian people for years while courting their vote.
Force churches and their leaders to choose sides. No middle ground. No more cloaking intolerance and discrimination in the name of religious freedom. No more 'buts'.
Let us all wake up and be fooled no more.
Let this be the new litmus test. Not abortion. Not gay marriage. Not tax cuts. Force leaders and those running for office to prove, with their deeds and records, what they have done that demonstrate which side they stand on.
Bring these horrible beings clearly, brightly, prominently into the light of day. Let us hear all of their words and understand what they represent. Let us see the hatred that is seared across their faces. Let us absorb their symbols of hatred and bigotry, their flags, their colors, and yes, their guns. Let there be no doubt, no facade of moral equivalency left standing.
Force all Americans and all Republicans to take a stand. The Republican Party has subtly and not-so-subtly nurtured and turned a blind eye to these un-American, unchristian people for years while courting their vote.
Force churches and their leaders to choose sides. No middle ground. No more cloaking intolerance and discrimination in the name of religious freedom. No more 'buts'.
Let us all wake up and be fooled no more.
Let this be the new litmus test. Not abortion. Not gay marriage. Not tax cuts. Force leaders and those running for office to prove, with their deeds and records, what they have done that demonstrate which side they stand on.
9
To those decrying the media for giving these guys "a platform" and "just ignore them" - STOP IT. Stop it right now. These groups need a swift rebuke and oh yes, publicly. Why? Because there are tons of young, impressionable minds witnessing all of this. People who are on the fence about how to feel about the issue. Who don't have someone guiding them with good, sound sense. Who have a parent or guardian who espouses these sorts of beliefs and no one around to question it. Because there are young black, brown, Jewish and LGBTQ children who have to live in fear when they see them marching in their towns. NO! It's not to be ignored it's to be squashed. SQUASHED. It's to be vehemently cast out of our society. I'm not ignoring anyone right now. I've already been paying attention and now we have names - they've lost their little hoods. Dummies.
5
Why are there Confederate statyes in Lexington anyway, Mr Heimrich? It's not Kentucky's heritage as KY was a Union state. Must just be sheer racism. Don't even try to cover that one with "heritage."
5
Imagine a world where Democrats seeking elected office and running against an avowed white supremist, is the norm and not the exception. The primary process has proven to be a volatile and delicate playing field. It can happen here.
2
The Alt-right is going to fail miserably, because the basis for their movement is a sense of entitlement based upon race. They are pretending to be victims because a democratic process called for the removal of a statue from a public place. Anyway you look at it, their rights haven’t been infringed and I have confidence that the strength of our institutions will prevail over any attempts to give them special rights.
1
Jared - can you take a moment out from solving the problems in the Middle East and reorganizing the federal government to remind yourself and your father-in-law that it's only a matter of time before these white supremicists turn their attention from Blacks and Hispanics to Jews, including his Jewish daughter and grandchildren. Maybe that will get his attention.
1
That time is now. Didn't you hear the "Jew will not replace us" chant at the Friday night torch burning rally and the protester who called the counter-protesters "Jew-lovers"?
Please do not default to the sugar-coated, PC use of alt-right. Call them what they are: white supremacist.
The media has seem to adopted their self-coined term and it is a misnomer at best and dangerous at worst.
They represent an evil force in society and need to be outed, condemned and stopped at every level.
The media has seem to adopted their self-coined term and it is a misnomer at best and dangerous at worst.
They represent an evil force in society and need to be outed, condemned and stopped at every level.
9
The alt-right marchers would be pathetically funny if they weren't so bent on provoking violence. All dressed up in their racist cosplay outfits! All their funny choreographed dance moves, er, chants and salutes. Picture them as 5 year old boys playing soldiers (essentially their emotional maturity) and we would all be rolling on the ground laughing at these ridiculous parades. Unfortunately, they are hate-filled grown men (chronologically anyway). Since we can't laugh at them, I agree with others that most people should just ignore them, or quietly express your disagreement instead of giving them the fight they are looking for.
5
As a white person, I am baffled by this. There are many honorable, decent white people that are to be celebrated and who have statues standing. Why must this group focus on only the white people who participated in wrongheaded and even evil thinking? Not to mention that there really isn't such a thing as "white heritage"- we're all different and we all come from different places. I'm sure my brand of "whiteness" would be met with scorn by these people but they are ignoring everything good and celebrating everything bad. Why?
4
Where do these people get the idea that being white means being superior? There is nothing in history, in science, or in genetics that indicates that being white is better than being anything else. If they prefer to believe that they are entitled to expect things to be easier for them because they're white and Christian (although I doubt Christ had them in mind or would condone their attitudes) they're wrong.
This attitude and its increasingly public prevalence is frightening or should be to veterans, to Christians, to Jews, to the likes of Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Sarah Palin (a woman), Ben Carson and Clarence Thomas, as well as any American who believes that civil rights are for all Americans, not some Americans. We've seen or learned about this show before. It occurred during WWII. It happened with the Armenian Massacre. It was an ongoing event in the Deep South during and after slavery. Yet some of our politicians and pundits support this. How much will they support it when it reaches out to devour them or someone they love? Will they realize, all too late, that they've made a mistake?
We're all human beings. It's when we stop seeing each other as humans that it becomes possible to murder large groups of people for no real reason. And being black, Jewish, etc., are not reason to murder people, enslave them, etc..
This attitude and its increasingly public prevalence is frightening or should be to veterans, to Christians, to Jews, to the likes of Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Sarah Palin (a woman), Ben Carson and Clarence Thomas, as well as any American who believes that civil rights are for all Americans, not some Americans. We've seen or learned about this show before. It occurred during WWII. It happened with the Armenian Massacre. It was an ongoing event in the Deep South during and after slavery. Yet some of our politicians and pundits support this. How much will they support it when it reaches out to devour them or someone they love? Will they realize, all too late, that they've made a mistake?
We're all human beings. It's when we stop seeing each other as humans that it becomes possible to murder large groups of people for no real reason. And being black, Jewish, etc., are not reason to murder people, enslave them, etc..
1
For me, at least, it wasn't memories of the KKK that were summoned up by the torchlight parade in Charlottesville: it was old films of the Nazi Sturmabteilung marching in Berlin the night of January 30, 1933, when Hitler was named Chancellor of Germany.
2
Trump, alone, is the power house supplying this "New Energy".
Trump is an unapologetic racist "birther" and always has been.
He's even been convicted of using the color bar in his business dealings. And only in a country that has lost it's moral compass could someone like him get elected. The one bright spot, is that at least it wasn't the majority that was shown to be completely morally bankrupt during the election.
Trump is an unapologetic racist "birther" and always has been.
He's even been convicted of using the color bar in his business dealings. And only in a country that has lost it's moral compass could someone like him get elected. The one bright spot, is that at least it wasn't the majority that was shown to be completely morally bankrupt during the election.
2
Trump’s pattern and game plan:
He subtly endorses the radical right. He gets criticized for that, because the job of the president is to be president for all American, whether you are in office or running for office. A few days later, he criticizes the extreme he just excused. Then the radical right says, Oh he was forced to say that, and he really did endorse us. So they build their movement by claiming endorsement. Trump attempts to benefit from both sides. On old con from Don the con.
He subtly endorses the radical right. He gets criticized for that, because the job of the president is to be president for all American, whether you are in office or running for office. A few days later, he criticizes the extreme he just excused. Then the radical right says, Oh he was forced to say that, and he really did endorse us. So they build their movement by claiming endorsement. Trump attempts to benefit from both sides. On old con from Don the con.
3
I wonder how eagerly they'd be planning their next event if people had just ignored the last one. They're kind of like the live, physical equivalent of internet trolls. Don't feed the trolls.
6
There are 9 rallies planned in different states for this weekend by the Nazi's.
I hope The Resistance shows up against these haters of Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, Muslims etc.
There is nothing to fear.
In my state, thankfully, the Nazi's will not be rallying.
I hope our governor et al, refuse the Alt Right and their band of Nazi's, any permission to rally in our state.
Based on our massive gun ownership per household, it would be IRRESPONSIBLE to permit a hate rally. It would not be free speech, but akin to screaming "fire" in a crowded movie theater.
I hope The Resistance shows up against these haters of Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, Muslims etc.
There is nothing to fear.
In my state, thankfully, the Nazi's will not be rallying.
I hope our governor et al, refuse the Alt Right and their band of Nazi's, any permission to rally in our state.
Based on our massive gun ownership per household, it would be IRRESPONSIBLE to permit a hate rally. It would not be free speech, but akin to screaming "fire" in a crowded movie theater.
3
I beg to differ. It would be constitutionally protected speech. Speech to be abhorred, but speech nonetheless. Not at all akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. The First Amendment protects all expressive speech, including, and especially, the speech we hate.
3
Why give attention to this cause of hate? This is precisely what these groups crave: the cameras, the lights, and the microphones. Stop covering the madness they propagate.
5
To ignore the vermin is the worst insult. Stop all coverage of them,please !
6
I agree with your sentiment but I think it's important that we know their names.
No more hiding behind a hood.
No more hiding behind a hood.
2
I cannot believe my eyes reading this headline. The violent racists who rioted in Charlottesville gave the movement "new energy" !?!?!?
It should have been the death knell of the neo-nazi white supremacist alt-right movement. Instead, the murderous rampage has energized its defenders? They are planning new rallies all over the country and stepping up to run for office?
Good God, what country do I live in now? The America I have known for every one of my 74 years may have faltered at times, but always stood for equality and condemned racist behavior. Are these terrible, demoralizing people and actions now popular and acceptable?
Now is the time for any statesmen and stateswomen left in this country to come forward, to help us excise this cancer on the body politic. We have allowed it to grow and fester for much too long.
By his reluctance to condemn the haters, we know we cannot rely on the man in the Oval Office to lead us out of this terrible divide.
It should have been the death knell of the neo-nazi white supremacist alt-right movement. Instead, the murderous rampage has energized its defenders? They are planning new rallies all over the country and stepping up to run for office?
Good God, what country do I live in now? The America I have known for every one of my 74 years may have faltered at times, but always stood for equality and condemned racist behavior. Are these terrible, demoralizing people and actions now popular and acceptable?
Now is the time for any statesmen and stateswomen left in this country to come forward, to help us excise this cancer on the body politic. We have allowed it to grow and fester for much too long.
By his reluctance to condemn the haters, we know we cannot rely on the man in the Oval Office to lead us out of this terrible divide.
8
He is the leader of the fascists. Our country, we same age, is dead. Encouraging my family to emigrate.
1
The white supremacists showed up in man-boy military gear including assault rifles, clubs, brass knuckles, and other crude weaponry. Their point was to create and intimidation-provacateurs looking for battle, engaging in war. Breitbart has fake news claiming the far left were the aggressors. Watch the videos and check out the photos of this disgusting spectacle and you'll see the truth of what happened.
4
This is such a sanitized report of these vile people that it comes perilously close to legitimizing them. They are the very worst of society. If you have the stomach for it, check out their websites. Free speech? No. Hate speech. And why isn't this criminal?
5
Why isn't this criminal? Read the First Amendment. The Constitution does not carve out an exception for "hate" speech.
1
Wow, I didn't know I am an "antifa." I just consider myself a patriotic red blooded American that believes all humans are created equal. I'm thinking that 99.9%+ of us believe that way. These outliers will always be outliers.
I suggest we all go to their scheduled events on mass and point and laugh at the idiots on the stage. Being laughed at is a very powerful weapon. They seem to tend to wear real store bought weapons so do go with a large group.....
I suggest we all go to their scheduled events on mass and point and laugh at the idiots on the stage. Being laughed at is a very powerful weapon. They seem to tend to wear real store bought weapons so do go with a large group.....
7
Yeah, but they will shoot you!
Alt Right groups own most of the guns in this country, according to MSNBC.
Alt Right groups own most of the guns in this country, according to MSNBC.
2
Unfortunately, I think MSNBC is correct. Regardless, we need to stand up for the Constitution and the knowledge that we are all created equal. They can't shoot all of us, especially if we run toward them and not away.
PS I like the idea of all the crazies getting a DNA test. It's totally illegal, but watching people freak after finding out they aren't just European would tickle me pink!
PS I like the idea of all the crazies getting a DNA test. It's totally illegal, but watching people freak after finding out they aren't just European would tickle me pink!
1
We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal...
If you do not fully embrace this ideal, you are not an American.
If you do not fully embrace this ideal, you are not an American.
12
and women
1
Just wondering if the Cowards with long-guns are going to surround another church as they did Charlottesville's,St. Paul’s Memorial Episcopal Church while parishioners held a prayer vigil?
8
I've just re-read our Constitution. Nowhere in it does it say that any people when it comes to race or creed, have the right to supremacy over others.
It says all lives matter.
If you cannot live by the laws of our land, than I suggest that you find another country to live in that will tolerate your need for blaming others for your life choices, choices that have brought you to a sense of failure, which have promoted your racial intolerance.
I think we should start with the President. I'll be happy to invite President Trump, with all of his affirmed bigotry against people of color everywhere, to buy his own island, move there, and let us get on with a more reasonable approach to following our Constitution. He can take his Hitler oriented pro-Nazi, alt-right white "supremacists" with him. They have no place in this country according to our Constitution.
It says all lives matter.
If you cannot live by the laws of our land, than I suggest that you find another country to live in that will tolerate your need for blaming others for your life choices, choices that have brought you to a sense of failure, which have promoted your racial intolerance.
I think we should start with the President. I'll be happy to invite President Trump, with all of his affirmed bigotry against people of color everywhere, to buy his own island, move there, and let us get on with a more reasonable approach to following our Constitution. He can take his Hitler oriented pro-Nazi, alt-right white "supremacists" with him. They have no place in this country according to our Constitution.
10
These various groups, some of which I did not know existed, are like the slimy things living under a rock that come out when you lift up the rock. Trump has lifted the rock.
11
Trump IS the rock.
1
Just as the mainstream media were complicit in the spread of climate denial, by constant repetition - they are now providing the same service to the alt-right.
Lots of details on when they plan to do more! Quotes! Repeated Delusions! And my favorite, the "torchlight parade" ...
The torch is not there because it's pretty - it was, and is, an immediate threat of violence- arson. We will burn your house down; and you with it. Parade? Shame on any who call it that.
Lots of details on when they plan to do more! Quotes! Repeated Delusions! And my favorite, the "torchlight parade" ...
The torch is not there because it's pretty - it was, and is, an immediate threat of violence- arson. We will burn your house down; and you with it. Parade? Shame on any who call it that.
10
Now that civil rights for all is the standard in all civilized societies, we have the aggrieved victims -- white males who have only anger, resentment and violence against anyone who is not failing as they are.
They have a champion in The Orange Creature. And they think that civil rights for all is "genocide" for whites.
At least they've been tempted from the shadows out into the daylight -- excepting, of course, those nighttime torch-lit parades -- where we can see them, identify them, and understand that a small slice of America will always be characterized by hatred, violence, intolerance and pathetic, aggrieved victim-hood.
This "movement" isn't going anywhere. And it will force politicians to take a side. Trump, Arpaio and the sick young men in this article vs. decency.
Progress, of sorts.
They have a champion in The Orange Creature. And they think that civil rights for all is "genocide" for whites.
At least they've been tempted from the shadows out into the daylight -- excepting, of course, those nighttime torch-lit parades -- where we can see them, identify them, and understand that a small slice of America will always be characterized by hatred, violence, intolerance and pathetic, aggrieved victim-hood.
This "movement" isn't going anywhere. And it will force politicians to take a side. Trump, Arpaio and the sick young men in this article vs. decency.
Progress, of sorts.
7
The next time they want to march up to a monument, they should have to do so across hundreds of protestors lying like dead bodies on the ground. Countering their show of force with any violence at all -- even in self defense -- is only fodder for their movement. Ghandi and Dr. King proved submission to violence will reveal them for the thugs that they are. It is not enough to hang their pictures on your dorm room wall. We must live the example they set.
5
They will be happy to injure or kill you. Passive, nonviolent resistance is directed against what should be responsible government actors or others who are expected to normally act in a reasonable manner. To the extent they respond with force they demonstrate otherwise, with the disappointing, unacceptable result demonstrable to the greater public. No sensible member of the general public has any expectation that the vicious, racist subhuman types who attend right wing hate rallies will show any concern for the safety of counter demonstrators who block their path. From their words and actions at demonstrations and elsewhere, we already know what the right wing haters are like.
2
Let these demonstrations ring out like trees falling in the woods. If the media isn't broadcasting the activities of unhappy and seemingly pathetic outcasts these events will surely fizzle-out. These economically struggling and independently-minded individuals often can go right or left, politically. If Democrats continue to righteously ridicule such disenfranchised guys it's pretty clear which direction they'll go. We need to resist our media's efforts to sensationalize politically-charged, minor events by simply ignoring them.
1
I don't get it. Unlike the old days when white supremacists were angry older men in sheets these folks are educated well dressed young men. What discrimination could any of them possibly have suffered?
9
Their parents didn't hug them enough, apparently.
5
Spencer is evil and should not be allowed to spread bigotry and hate. He should be ridden out of Virginia on a rail.
Texas A&M cancelled Spencer 's planned September 11 Day of Hate due to safety concerns . Let's see whether the ACLU will cluelessly sue on behalf of hate a second time. I hold ACLU partially responsible for the violence and killing that took place in Charlottesville. There is free speech and then there are violent thugs intimidating, beating and killing innocent people. Free speech is legal, the other described acts are not - too bad the ACLU cannot tell the difference.
Texas A&M cancelled Spencer 's planned September 11 Day of Hate due to safety concerns . Let's see whether the ACLU will cluelessly sue on behalf of hate a second time. I hold ACLU partially responsible for the violence and killing that took place in Charlottesville. There is free speech and then there are violent thugs intimidating, beating and killing innocent people. Free speech is legal, the other described acts are not - too bad the ACLU cannot tell the difference.
3
Guys, this is bait. So just dont take it. If a white hate group is protesting a statue removal, and you want to counter protest, fine.
But if it's just a rally for a Ralph's sake, ignore them. They want the response, they want - and this is very true of you've ever met one of them - an excuse to kill and hurt someone that they hate. They are at the bottom. they have nothing left. They are lost in delusion. Don't let them drag you into their world.
Let the demonstrations happen. watch how pitiful they look when no one responds. It's comical. They have no power of you don't give it to them.
They want a fight, much like the last guy holding on in a poker game with no chips.
But if it's just a rally for a Ralph's sake, ignore them. They want the response, they want - and this is very true of you've ever met one of them - an excuse to kill and hurt someone that they hate. They are at the bottom. they have nothing left. They are lost in delusion. Don't let them drag you into their world.
Let the demonstrations happen. watch how pitiful they look when no one responds. It's comical. They have no power of you don't give it to them.
They want a fight, much like the last guy holding on in a poker game with no chips.
6
Now would be a good time to review 20th-century European history! (And, of course, we're going to need every bit of "real" news we can get.)
Oh, as the White House gathers voting records, we might all remember when the Nazi's gathered baptism records from German churches -- with the help of, what's that data machine company?)
Oh, as the White House gathers voting records, we might all remember when the Nazi's gathered baptism records from German churches -- with the help of, what's that data machine company?)
5
It is time to stop using terms like Alt Right and White Nationalist. The reality is that these groups are White Supremacist groups, who are racist, nationalist, separationist. By giving them a "Politically Correct," name we allow them to exist openly and legitimately within our society and discourse. The reality is, these names are no different from the hoods worn by the KKK to hide their true identities. Alt right and White Nationalist serve the same purpose, however they do so in order to to hide not identity, but intent. I remember seeing rallies of white supremacists my entire life, however they were never so brazen as they were this weekend. They often wore hoods, or hats and big sunglasses to hide their identities. This weekend they walked unmasked and proud. This is certainly due to the legitimization of their platform by Donald Trump, but even more so because of this shift in how we and the media have decided to name their platform. Let us not legitimize these peoples' platform by renaming them. Let us instead tell them the truth about what they are subscribing to. Let us engage with them from an honest starting point, which is that the platform that they are currently part of is vile, hate filled, and small minded, and has no place in this country or this world.
4
Interesting how they co-opt the language of the LGBTQ community but with an implicit threat. “Every city needs to watch out,” Mr. Mosley said. “We are everywhere.” And they're imitating African Americans with a White Lives Matter group rather than looking at why a Black Lives Matter group was started. They aren't original in their thinking but they are frightening in what they are trying to do.
We don't need to recreate apartheid or the Nazi regime in America. We've seen what happens to countries that do what the Far Right is trying to do. If the mainstream politicians of the day and our president and vice president are unwilling to condemn what the Far Right is trying to do they will have opened the door for legitimizing outdated, anachronistic, and anarchical views. Do our conservative politicians truly want to regress to the days when we had slavery, Jim Crow, and other forms of segregation as part of our daily lives? Do they realize that this could affect them as well? It's great for a Clarence Thomas or Ben Carson to rail against Affirmative Action but if they gave it moment's thought, the good ol' days would mean that they wouldn't have what they have now and neither would many of us.
We don't need to recreate apartheid or the Nazi regime in America. We've seen what happens to countries that do what the Far Right is trying to do. If the mainstream politicians of the day and our president and vice president are unwilling to condemn what the Far Right is trying to do they will have opened the door for legitimizing outdated, anachronistic, and anarchical views. Do our conservative politicians truly want to regress to the days when we had slavery, Jim Crow, and other forms of segregation as part of our daily lives? Do they realize that this could affect them as well? It's great for a Clarence Thomas or Ben Carson to rail against Affirmative Action but if they gave it moment's thought, the good ol' days would mean that they wouldn't have what they have now and neither would many of us.
4
I know the practice isn't a new one, but I think referring to racist ideologies and hate groups as "the far right" is part of the problem. It legitimizes those who propose white supremacy as part of the standard political spectrum, and it simultaneously pollutes the legitimate right side of the spectrum. Not all conservatives subscribe to racist ideologies, nor would they even if you were to enhance their conservatism and push them "farther to the right". The terms are quite confusing, though. If an ultra-conservative who's not that bright is faced with a choice between a liberal Democrat and someone calling himself "far-right," there's a good chance he's picking the KKK guy. Using language that would exclude these groups from standard political analysis would be a helpful step towards clipping their wings. Refusing to use the misleading "alt-right" label, for instance, and instead insisting on referring to them exclusively as white supremacists, would be an important step.
4
Reminds me of the Far Right activities 80 years ago in Germany: mobilizing, marching in cities, running for office. I wonder how that ended up?
4
If what they want is a "white home land," maybe there is an unsettled area in the northern-most reaches of Alaska that they could have. It's plenty white there in the winter. The government could give it to them the way they gave the Native Americans reservations.
3
Or Texas.
3
They are banned in Boston. Thank God.
10
I read on my news feed that charges are planned against those who pulled down the statue of the Confederate Uniformed officer that stood in Durham, near some state government building, no doubt.
Actually, it is the people who erected the statue who should be charged and I hope that enough patriotic mainstream Americans insist that our justice department investigate and charge those responsible for erecting the swtatue under the constitution which defines treason (the only defined criminal act in the text) as
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."
The Confederate Army was an enemy of the US and erecting a statue is giving that enemy aid and comfort .
It's time for Trump to issue a blanket executive order, as Commander-in-Chief, that all statues representing the Confederate army, the clear enemy of the united States, be taken down in all states.
Actually, it is the people who erected the statue who should be charged and I hope that enough patriotic mainstream Americans insist that our justice department investigate and charge those responsible for erecting the swtatue under the constitution which defines treason (the only defined criminal act in the text) as
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."
The Confederate Army was an enemy of the US and erecting a statue is giving that enemy aid and comfort .
It's time for Trump to issue a blanket executive order, as Commander-in-Chief, that all statues representing the Confederate army, the clear enemy of the united States, be taken down in all states.
6
Sorry - the people who pulled down the confederate statue should be prosecuted. Ever have someone vandalize your property? Did you excuse that? The statue was public property - the county could have auctioned it off for a far higher value than the scrap metal that it is now. Saying one side can break the law because you don't like the statues or their history just opens the door for the other side to break the law too. Decide which you want - a law-abiding society or everyone justifying their actions through their personal emotions. You can't have it both ways.
I don't like confederate monuments either, but I don't want vigilantes deciding they can do whatever they want - on either side of the argument.
I don't like confederate monuments either, but I don't want vigilantes deciding they can do whatever they want - on either side of the argument.
5
I would love to understand WHY these people think they're getting shorted in their lives. What happened in their experience or education or upbringing that led to these attitudes and beliefs?
11
I don't get the rolling pin logo.
1
Pretty apparent that they're unintelligent and uneducated, thus they have trouble making enough money to support themselves.
3
There were 3 Medical doctors identified in the rally. It seems there is more to this hate than so called e economic status.
They seek poublicity so the media gives it to them. You are their partners.
5
Would you rather pretend Charlottesville never happened?
Would you prefer to sweep it all under the rug til they're at your door?
Do you wish to not see the dangers of our world?
Then you can turn off "the media." For the rest of us, we'd prefer to know and understand what's happening in the world around us so we can do something positive about it.
Would you prefer to sweep it all under the rug til they're at your door?
Do you wish to not see the dangers of our world?
Then you can turn off "the media." For the rest of us, we'd prefer to know and understand what's happening in the world around us so we can do something positive about it.
6
I would not give them the publicity they want. They use it to recruit just like ISIS does. I would just let them carry on and be insignificant as they should be. .
Thank you for mentioning Augustus Sol Invictus in your article, and his intent to run for Senate in FL. Adding to this, check out: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/11/augustus-sol-invictus-sel...“god”-who-kills-goats-and-has-serious-issues-women.
Mr. Gillespie, aka Augustus (please...!?!?), is one more of these educated(?), preened, and polished white supremacist man-boy whacks in the style of Spencer intent on infiltrating state government to "normalize" and spread his hate and aberrant, abusive behaviors and ideology. All reasonable people must rise now to block his run for office.
Mr. Gillespie, aka Augustus (please...!?!?), is one more of these educated(?), preened, and polished white supremacist man-boy whacks in the style of Spencer intent on infiltrating state government to "normalize" and spread his hate and aberrant, abusive behaviors and ideology. All reasonable people must rise now to block his run for office.
5
Why are such groups of people being publicized to such an extent? I am afraid of such groups. There are all sorts of wonderfully social-minded groups to focus on, so focus on activist moral groups we can all be proud of.
5
We must stop the bleeding before we can build a better world. You must always fix problems first, then you can improve.
Because sunlight is the best disinfectant.
4
Because these people are a threat and danger to everyone else. Their stated goals are take over the country and make everyone else non-citzens at best or to kill everyone else at the worse.
I laugh at their waving the confederate and flags, symbols of some of the biggest losers in history.
16
well, in all fairness, the white genocide has been really really horrible. Fact: Every day, a white person will die of disease or even old age. The PC police, most of them women and Mexicans, use safe words like "NATURAL CAUSES" to trample our liberty.
9
Find the money trail. What person (via some fund or entity) is financing the leaders of these groups. These mushrooms need manure to grow. Where are they getting it? Who is supporting them? There are a few very wealthy patrons of these groups,, cut off the funding.
Where and how are they getting their recruits? If you look you will find that there are companies that do data research using face book, google, you tube and with this data the companies can target potential recruits very accurately, find out who is feeding this information to these groups and out them? One of the presidents closest advisor was associated with one of these "research" companies and one of this advisors main champian is an owner. The same company had an influence onBrexit and our own elections.
Cut off the source of funding and expose the data firms and you seriously impact these groups.
Rival protests only feed their recruits and the rival group leaders are not doing it for nothing. Cut off the funding to them also. Very few people have the where withal to dedicate themselves to protesting full time unless somone is supporting them.
Where and how are they getting their recruits? If you look you will find that there are companies that do data research using face book, google, you tube and with this data the companies can target potential recruits very accurately, find out who is feeding this information to these groups and out them? One of the presidents closest advisor was associated with one of these "research" companies and one of this advisors main champian is an owner. The same company had an influence onBrexit and our own elections.
Cut off the source of funding and expose the data firms and you seriously impact these groups.
Rival protests only feed their recruits and the rival group leaders are not doing it for nothing. Cut off the funding to them also. Very few people have the where withal to dedicate themselves to protesting full time unless somone is supporting them.
8
Seriously, some of the funding may be coming from Russia. It's consistent with their desire to destabilize the West.
2
This is increasingly dangerous, and another Oklahoma City bombing is looming.
These are not patriotic Americans: they are neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates, both groups that have zero to do with the United States.
As the governor of Virginia said, "You are not welcome here." There is no room in America for fascist thugs. The FBI and Justice Department must redouble their efforts. Sessions is saying the right thing now, but he helped create this with the radical reversal of protections in the Justice Department including ending the support for voting rights, ending much civil rights support, targeting affirmative action programs instead of those that discriminate against minorities, and the mandatory prison sentences (often targeting minorities), civil forfeiture increases, persecution of immigrants, turn against LGBT protections, and other regressive failed policies. These officially make discrimination part of the Justice Department.
Trump's America is trying its best to be the dystopian vision he ranted about. "All men are created equal." Anyone who does not believe that is not welcome in the United States.
These are not patriotic Americans: they are neo-Nazis and neo-Confederates, both groups that have zero to do with the United States.
As the governor of Virginia said, "You are not welcome here." There is no room in America for fascist thugs. The FBI and Justice Department must redouble their efforts. Sessions is saying the right thing now, but he helped create this with the radical reversal of protections in the Justice Department including ending the support for voting rights, ending much civil rights support, targeting affirmative action programs instead of those that discriminate against minorities, and the mandatory prison sentences (often targeting minorities), civil forfeiture increases, persecution of immigrants, turn against LGBT protections, and other regressive failed policies. These officially make discrimination part of the Justice Department.
Trump's America is trying its best to be the dystopian vision he ranted about. "All men are created equal." Anyone who does not believe that is not welcome in the United States.
6
Disgusting. Why would these people be profiled?
1
Unfortunately, not all white supremacists or while nationalists display their prejudice as outwardly and fragrantly as those in Charlottesville for the world to know who they are. Many prefer to lurks in the shadows from where they can be more effectively do their dirty work. They are the CEOs, managers, and co-workers who can effectively hold the line against any advancement of these groups they feared. Despite how this News paper and others try to rationalize Trump victory as a result of White middle class being neglected, the truth is that was more a fear of what they perceived as "the other people" making advances. Where as 30 years ago, minorities and people of colors we eating the scraps that fell from the table of Whites, now they pulling up a chair to the table where that was seen as threat to these White Supremacists. The sad part is, they weren't really losing any of their privileges, they just didn't want "the other people" to gain any.
8
In 1977, the U.S. Supreme Court heard a case stemming from a planned march by white supremacists who wanted to display swastikas in Skokie, IlL.
The outcome of the case, National Socialist Party v. Village of Skokie, was that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that "the use of a swastika is a symbolic form of free speech entitled to 1st Amendment protection".
Incidentally, Robert Spencer, the poster child for the alt right, received a degree from the University of Chicago.
According to the WSJ, this week the U of C President, Robert Zimmer, was asked as to whether Spencer could speak on campus.
Zimmer replied that:
"It would be fine if he came to speak just like if anyone came to speak".
The outcome of the case, National Socialist Party v. Village of Skokie, was that the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that "the use of a swastika is a symbolic form of free speech entitled to 1st Amendment protection".
Incidentally, Robert Spencer, the poster child for the alt right, received a degree from the University of Chicago.
According to the WSJ, this week the U of C President, Robert Zimmer, was asked as to whether Spencer could speak on campus.
Zimmer replied that:
"It would be fine if he came to speak just like if anyone came to speak".
1
The Left plans its next move. The Right plots its next move.
Language is a useful servant and a dreadful master.
Language is a useful servant and a dreadful master.
1
I wonder how many of the "new Nazis" had great- and grandfathers who fought Nazis in WWII.
20
Be reminded that 5.5 million Nazi soldiers were killed during World War II. If neo-Nazis persist in the United States, they will face the same consequences, and it will not protect them if they wear blue blazers rather than brown shirts or green uniforms. The militia movement that now finds support in The White House is not the result of class warfare: it is an evil ideology of the superiority of the Caucasian race that seeks to eliminate non-whites, Jews, and other minorities in the belief of their inferiority. With the help of our allies, we destroyed those ideologues once and if it becomes necessary, they will be destroyed again. Our national commitment to equality demands it. Thanks for naming names -- these neo-Nazis have targets on their backs.
7
Please leave our college campuses out or this conversation. Too many young, vulnerable 18 yr- olds are beginning a new chapter in their lives this semester. Take your hate speech elsewhere.
6
Sadly, that is the exact reason why they go there.
1
Get back to Russia! Trump, Pence, Sessions and Flynn are all involved. Take them down!
12
White supremacist movements are as bad as Black Lives Matters' groups. They cause a racial divide and can lead to violence as we saw in Charlottesville on Saturday. We are one nation and we should be coming together not falling apart. These groups are dangerous and must be discouraged because they bring about hate and despair. Both Democrats and Republicsns must speak out against them and then maybe people will listen.
3
Black lives matter are marching for a good cause, to stop racial profiling by police and to end police violence against them. There is plenty of discrimination in this country yet for people of color, and much of it is institutionalized like it was in ferguson.
Ferguson is not alone in having racism enshrined into law.
Ferguson is not alone in having racism enshrined into law.
The fact that you equate violent hate speech with a plea for social justice shows that you know nothing about what the United States stands for.
2
BLM: "Stop killing us"
Nazis: "We will kill you"
see the diff?
Nazis: "We will kill you"
see the diff?
5
Trump has at least 3 racists within steps of the Oval Office. How can anything change before that ends?
10
It's pretty obvious what's going on, when the police claim to have so few options for dealing with neo-Nazis who stage violent riots. If the police can bring in SWAT teams for unarmed, peaceful left-wing protestors at, say, an Occupy Wall Street rally, while stepping aside for neo-Nazis who are caught on camera beating and killing people, it's pretty obvious who the police sympathize with.
7
Repugnant as these right-wing white supremacist misfits are, they should be afforded the right for redress and protest, as long as it's orderly and peaceful. "We the people in order to make a more perfect union" also have the right for redress and protest as long as it's orderly and peaceful and to make clear that neo-nazi, racist thought is anathemas to our founding principles and vestiges of a romanticization of a bygone era of slavery, calling it "a war for states' rights" and not about the enslavement of Africans is both cruel and oppression to many good Americans. Trump and others are on the wrong side of history while my tolerant, beloved Uncle, who fought the Nazis in WWII, stands tall.
3
The fear is of a "peaceful protest" by heavily armed people turning into a bloodbath when someone gets scared and the shooting starts. Add "stand your ground" laws to the mix and watch out.
1
They want and need conflict which is why they are so in your face to people.
Peaceful is the key word. They came to a peaceful college town the other day with assault weapons, camouflage, shields, torches, and other weapons. In no way was that a peaceful protest: it was a vicious thuggish statement about racism, white supremacy, and neo-Nazism. Disgusting and deplorable as well as deeply anti-American.
3
The far right has many perceived grievances but opposition to 'white genocide' is particularly dangerous. Staving off genocide justifies the most aggressive and vile actions.
An eye-for-an-eye mentality rationalizes doing the same to those they oppose. Why else would they keep making references to the deeds of the Nazis? Why do many members yearn for a race war? And why do they need all the guns?
An eye-for-an-eye mentality rationalizes doing the same to those they oppose. Why else would they keep making references to the deeds of the Nazis? Why do many members yearn for a race war? And why do they need all the guns?
2
The media needs to stop legitimizing these dangerous clowns with coverage. A white supremacist can look at the photo accompanying this article and have a rush of pride running through his veins, further contributing to embolden his misplaced and myopic sense of patriotism.
5
"Energized"? By the deaths of innocent people? 'Nuff said about these monsters.
3
Our Democracy hangs in the balance of who our leaders, military, police and judicial system side with. If they crack down on the non-violent protesters while protecting the out of control, riotous, murdering, hate mongering, rifle toting white supremacists, then Democracy will will not have a chance at surviving. People like Trump and Bannon hate the American way of life and want to blow it up in spite of their flag waiving and patriotic rhetoric.
1
Neo-Nazi rallies with automated weapons are not free speech - they are violent terrorist acts and must be outlawed. It is not a difference of opinion to call for extermination or subjugation of people - it is TERRORISM. This is a job for our military - LOCK THEM UP.
1
They are not just emboldened by the First Amendment. They are emboldened by the Second. Think about that for a minute. Only in America do we have a right to spew hate AND carry assault weapons. It's not going to be too pretty, folks.
6
Well stated. Boston and Dallas may shut down the protests, but how many other smaller cities, in red states or in red counties, will allow them. Including open and concealed carry states. Not pretty at all.
2
winter is here.
3
At some point one can imagine the next confrontation being more violent and escalating to involve guns. Seeing pictures of so-called militia men, armed with assault weapons to protect their neo-nazi brothers and walking around unchallenged by law enforcement makes me think ridiculous open carry laws need to be re-examined.
2
The denizens of hate radio and the Repub party that gladly repeats their lies are responsible for the festering canker sore that is the Alt right.
Early in the Obama presidency some conservatives were desperate to drive his approval ratings down and, absent very many cogent and well reasoned arguments against his policies, they quickly resorted to racism. "Why does Obama hate white people" became their underlying theme, now, we have what we have. Make no mistake, the Republican Party is a hundred per cent culpable for these people because it has proven that it has no decency, just like Our Fake So Called President.
Early in the Obama presidency some conservatives were desperate to drive his approval ratings down and, absent very many cogent and well reasoned arguments against his policies, they quickly resorted to racism. "Why does Obama hate white people" became their underlying theme, now, we have what we have. Make no mistake, the Republican Party is a hundred per cent culpable for these people because it has proven that it has no decency, just like Our Fake So Called President.
The Koch Party??? Or, to be subtle, the new Trump Party? Please, do it.
1
The only good news in all this is that it will likely split the Republican party.
1
These groups coming to prominence obviously have a direct tie to the election of Trump, and his complete gutlessness when being asked to denounce these groups only emboldens them. But one could make the argument that their rise in volume is a direct corollary to the Arab Spring. In both societies, significant economic stagnation and lack of prosperity and a bleak future allows fringe radicals to gain momentum and a larger megaphone from which to shout.
We can counter protest, and MUST never be anything less than fully vigilant against neo-fascism and emboldened racism, and never let us conflate the difference between "free speech" and "hate speech." But fundamentally, the way to get these groups to lose all of their backing would be to show and provide a more stable economic society that would let them have a greater personal investment in the American dream. Of course, with our "President" and Congress' lack of spine that is unlikely to happen until 2018/2020, but that must be the way forward.
In the mean time, outright refusal to accept or allow bigotry, xenophobia, racism, sexism, and fascism to gain a stable foothold is paramount to the survival of our national identity.
We can counter protest, and MUST never be anything less than fully vigilant against neo-fascism and emboldened racism, and never let us conflate the difference between "free speech" and "hate speech." But fundamentally, the way to get these groups to lose all of their backing would be to show and provide a more stable economic society that would let them have a greater personal investment in the American dream. Of course, with our "President" and Congress' lack of spine that is unlikely to happen until 2018/2020, but that must be the way forward.
In the mean time, outright refusal to accept or allow bigotry, xenophobia, racism, sexism, and fascism to gain a stable foothold is paramount to the survival of our national identity.
1
Why am I having to read about this on a British news outlet? There's been nothing about this in the Times:
"On 17 July, the DoJ served a website-hosting company, DreamHost, with a search warrant for every piece of information it possessed that was related to a website that was used to coordinate protests during Donald Trump’s inauguration."
"The US government is seeking to unmask every person who visited an anti-Trump website in what privacy advocates say is an unconstitutional “fishing expedition” for political dissidents.
"The warrant appears to be an escalation of the Department of Justice’s (DoJ) campaign against anti-Trump activities, including the harsh prosecution of inauguration day protesters.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/donald-trump-inauguration-...
"On 17 July, the DoJ served a website-hosting company, DreamHost, with a search warrant for every piece of information it possessed that was related to a website that was used to coordinate protests during Donald Trump’s inauguration."
"The US government is seeking to unmask every person who visited an anti-Trump website in what privacy advocates say is an unconstitutional “fishing expedition” for political dissidents.
"The warrant appears to be an escalation of the Department of Justice’s (DoJ) campaign against anti-Trump activities, including the harsh prosecution of inauguration day protesters.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/donald-trump-inauguration-...
5
CNN and The Washington Post have articles about it,so hopefully the NYT will too.
All the fear and anger from the right may be their frustration of knowing, deep down, that they’ve lost. Not the last election, but The War. And they lost a long, long time ago. At the beginning of the Age of Enlightenment and Science, Thomas Hobbes saw a limitless future of possibilities and concluded the best way forward was through a modern society in which government could maximize each person’s chance to achieve their greatest potential by providing the opportunity for advancement – through education, infrastructure and the rule of law - and protection from the uncertainties of age, infirmity, sickness, poverty and death. Advancement has not been steady or without backsliding, and benefits did not come to all, equally. But advancements did come, and over time the ratchet only turns one direction. “Liberal moments” aren’t just suffrage and civil rights; they include roads, schools, public water and power, sewers, disease eradication, banks, protection of contracts, hospitals, stadiums, airwaves for radio, the internet. Modern life requires modern society, which requires modern government. Those who oppose modernity cling to a world based on Authority derived from revealed knowledge, rather than the authority derived from logical conclusions based on verifiable facts. Their world is gone for good.
“Liberal moments” aren’t just suffrage and civil rights; they include roads, schools, public water and power, sewers, disease eradication, banks, protection of contracts, hospitals, stadiums, airwaves for radio, the internet."
I agree, EDC, but weren't there a whole lot of white males involved in these accomplishments? And yet, in these comment sections, I continually see white males trashed. This just drives them into defensiveness and acts as virtual advertising for white supremacy hate groups.
I agree, EDC, but weren't there a whole lot of white males involved in these accomplishments? And yet, in these comment sections, I continually see white males trashed. This just drives them into defensiveness and acts as virtual advertising for white supremacy hate groups.
Each and every participant of violence last weekend in Charlottesville, VA needs to be arrested and tried for acts of violence.
Perhaps Americans might develop respect for law in order when the Department of Justice actually pursues justice.
Perhaps Americans might develop respect for law in order when the Department of Justice actually pursues justice.
1
No mention here of the Alt-Right rally scheduled to be held in liberal bastion Berkeley on August 27, just a few blocks from my house. The anarchist contingent from Oakland will undoubtedly attend, as will many from the largely peaceful student body, and many hardy gray-haired lefties. Trader Joe's had best board up all its windows, to the constant thrum of police and TV news helicopters overhead. I await in dread...
2
Maybe they could just let those guys speak without setting cars on fire. Accept that not everyone agrees with the liberal line and that their right to speak is not a threat to you. When they have the Q and A segments, which they always do, grill them with some tough questions. Thats the only way to defeat them, and thats how peaceful democracy works.
1
so the part I'm unclear on is: what is the end goal?
I don't know about the Nazis' end goal, but our end goal should be, eliminate the Nazis.
2
Like the tea party, these groups provide an outlet for a lot of guys to play dress up with like minded other guys. It's a tribal drum circle thing built on shared hate and victimhood instead of self discovery. But for many, the certainty of being outed now that the internet can put a name to any face, will act as a deterrent. It's no fun being a public hater when you end up losing your job and being shunned by friends and family.
6
Anyone surprised at this? These jackbooted thugs were all over his campaign. Anyone watching was well aware of trump's racist sexist bullying. Unfortunately the press did not chase it down, shine the light of day on it, and use their protected press to undo it. The trump ratings were just too good. I hope that anyone who cast a vote for "change" is ready to do their penance now. Show up. Carry very large signs. Yell at the top of your lungs. Put your life on the line to save your country and undo the most destructive vote you ever cast.
7
One thing that would perhaps combat these groups is the mainstream not using their language. "Identity politics" is a phrase that has been around for a long time - but there's a very good argument that it was revived by the alt-right online a few years ago. But now the phrase has exploded - with everyday people on the left and right, including professors like Mark Lilla, using it...every day. Why would these guys go away when they see some of their agenda being accomplished and spread, even unwittingly?
P.S. This is a really male movement. I mean, really male. Yes, the KKK probably didn't have women marching but these guys just...don't like women. There's even a term for it: MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way (straight men who don't want relationships with women). Not that all of the MGTOWs and the men's rights activists (MRAs) are white supremacists - but the overlap seems pretty strong.
Inside the Dangerous Convergence of Men’s-Rights Activists and the Extreme Alt-Right: https://www.thecut.com/2017/03/what-james-jackson-reveals-about-mgtow-an...
"While MGTOWs and alt-rightists regularly spar with one another online, the two movements now appear to be converging, with alt-rightists increasingly spouting anti-feminist, anti-women talking points familiar to anyone who has paid attention to the men’s-rights movement; meanwhile, more and more MGTOWs are becoming less shy about expressing their racism, with many openly identifying with the alt-right."
P.S. This is a really male movement. I mean, really male. Yes, the KKK probably didn't have women marching but these guys just...don't like women. There's even a term for it: MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way (straight men who don't want relationships with women). Not that all of the MGTOWs and the men's rights activists (MRAs) are white supremacists - but the overlap seems pretty strong.
Inside the Dangerous Convergence of Men’s-Rights Activists and the Extreme Alt-Right: https://www.thecut.com/2017/03/what-james-jackson-reveals-about-mgtow-an...
"While MGTOWs and alt-rightists regularly spar with one another online, the two movements now appear to be converging, with alt-rightists increasingly spouting anti-feminist, anti-women talking points familiar to anyone who has paid attention to the men’s-rights movement; meanwhile, more and more MGTOWs are becoming less shy about expressing their racism, with many openly identifying with the alt-right."
11
Excellent points here. Not nearly enough attention is brought to the gender divide in the USA. It is very real and gender hatred has been growing slowly and steadily for decades. It is very common in cyberspace, and ubiquitous in Altright cyberspace.
3
I've read enough I-hate-all-white-men statements in NYTimes comment sections to know it works both ways. Hating any group just encourages them to become more extreme. We're all ripping each other to shreds as the 1% laughs all the way to the bank.
The one thing these groups have going for them that the "left", and counter groups do not...they form their coalitions based on a clan, extended family(for lack of a better term) platform. These alt right, neo nazis, etc, form small family like groups, that become the center of the members lives. They meet regularly, as in a few times a week, to socialize, bath in their rhetoric and gripes, find each other jobs, or work together, etc. They will go on short trips, camping, survival training, etc. Sit and listen/watch lectures, read and study their influences...much like a bible study class.
Do these random counter groups do this? Nope. Maybe they have a few meetings a year, listen to some lecturer, hold a bake sale, seek to raise some funds or organize for a rally, etc. Most of which can now be done online, via social media, etc. But its not even as remotely close to how organized, or
focused on meeting the social and often spiritual needs these alt right, nationalist groups provide their members.
A lot of these guys, lesser numbers of females, have been struggling to fit in, to make friends with diverse peoples, hold a job, to find an identity and a cause to give their energy to. These alt right groups can often fulfill personal needs, and so dedication and devotion to "the cause" engulfs its members.
These guys aint playing. This aint a thing the guys do to meet chicks at a rally, or for girls to chant empowerment slogans. Its an identity for these guys.
Do these random counter groups do this? Nope. Maybe they have a few meetings a year, listen to some lecturer, hold a bake sale, seek to raise some funds or organize for a rally, etc. Most of which can now be done online, via social media, etc. But its not even as remotely close to how organized, or
focused on meeting the social and often spiritual needs these alt right, nationalist groups provide their members.
A lot of these guys, lesser numbers of females, have been struggling to fit in, to make friends with diverse peoples, hold a job, to find an identity and a cause to give their energy to. These alt right groups can often fulfill personal needs, and so dedication and devotion to "the cause" engulfs its members.
These guys aint playing. This aint a thing the guys do to meet chicks at a rally, or for girls to chant empowerment slogans. Its an identity for these guys.
3
Thump, Bannon and their sycophants have accepted racism from the 1st time Trump opened his mouth. His disregard for Mexican's and people of color is easily translated from his lies and thoughtless twittering. His sneering at LGBT people and women is on going and viscous. He has given the haters, Nazi's and alt-right cart blanc.
4
Wow, where do these losers come from.
5
Can we please stop calling them the "Alt-Right"?
They carry Nazi flags, give Nazi salutes and are driven by Nazi doctrines.
THEY ARE THE NAZI PARTY OF AMERICA!!!
Call a duck a duck and stop pandering and minimalizing who they REALLY are.
They carry Nazi flags, give Nazi salutes and are driven by Nazi doctrines.
THEY ARE THE NAZI PARTY OF AMERICA!!!
Call a duck a duck and stop pandering and minimalizing who they REALLY are.
10
At every turn 45 shows his true colors and just how bad he is for this country. I have never been so ashamed by any President. I in no way condone a violent response to these disgusting people but to put those who did so on equal terms feeds into their agenda. Where is our leadership on the right? How can anyone support 45 without supporting these extremists?
Disgusting?
Disgusting?
3
These white supremacist losers need to be pushed back in every part of this country. Good people will not allow these groups to advance their backward hateful ideology.
On a different note, this story should be receiving more attention from the NYTimes. The US Government trying to unmask every person who visited an anti-Trump website.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/donald-trump-inauguration-...
On a different note, this story should be receiving more attention from the NYTimes. The US Government trying to unmask every person who visited an anti-Trump website.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/14/donald-trump-inauguration-...
4
"Propaganda" is defined as ideas, facts or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause.
The following words are those of Joseph Goebbels. Goebbels was Hitler's propaganda minister. Whether of not Trump and Bannon have read Goebells, and have decided to use or not use Goebell's techniques, I think that Trump and Bannon use similar techniques.
"If you tell the same lie enough times, people will believe it; and the bigger the lie, the better."
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will. Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. "
"A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth."
"Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred."
"Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play."
"...the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious."
"The essence of propaganda consists in winning people over to an idea so sincerely, so vitally, that in the end they succumb to it utterly and can never escape from it."
"We shall reach our goal, when we have the power to laugh as we destroy, as we smash, whatever was sacred to us as tradition, as education, and as human affection."
The following words are those of Joseph Goebbels. Goebbels was Hitler's propaganda minister. Whether of not Trump and Bannon have read Goebells, and have decided to use or not use Goebell's techniques, I think that Trump and Bannon use similar techniques.
"If you tell the same lie enough times, people will believe it; and the bigger the lie, the better."
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will. Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. "
"A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth."
"Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred."
"Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play."
"...the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious."
"The essence of propaganda consists in winning people over to an idea so sincerely, so vitally, that in the end they succumb to it utterly and can never escape from it."
"We shall reach our goal, when we have the power to laugh as we destroy, as we smash, whatever was sacred to us as tradition, as education, and as human affection."
3
The fundamental difference between people is whether they are big endians or little endians. This distinction was first discovered by Jonathan Swift in the beginning of the 18th century in England who understood the absurdity of trying to link people together based on any give trait, physical characteristic, or belief system. Only Yahoo's take these distinctions seriously when breaking eggs.
1
I used to think Michael Moore was the best, and I still look at his twitter page all the time. Now, I'm struck by how contemptuous he can be towards the concerns of the people on the other side.
I think part of it might be you can see something differently when you're insulated from it. Now, Michael Moore's rich and famous, and people will kiss his behind for the rest of his life. He might never change his views.
I'm really seeing everything that happened in my past differently as my area changes and I'm not treated as well by people as I'd like. I guess maybe when you're a kid, people are a little more merciful, and when you're a man, they're not. What I used to be think was that racist people should move out of areas they don't like, and now I'm in the position of not being able to afford to leave this town, no matter how much anybody might hint to me that they don't want me here. I used to be great at karate, but now I have arthritis.
If a popular left-wing movement and legal hurdles and so on take away your voice, how can you share your critical perspective? If you actually know something the left-wing guy is missing out on that makes him a little naive, how can you tell him about it?
You know, swastikas, confederate flags, and slurs are really bold and over the top, I think, but could those people even have just calmly talked about their experiences and fears? And will it get even harder, in reaction to Charlottesville, for them even to do just that?
I think part of it might be you can see something differently when you're insulated from it. Now, Michael Moore's rich and famous, and people will kiss his behind for the rest of his life. He might never change his views.
I'm really seeing everything that happened in my past differently as my area changes and I'm not treated as well by people as I'd like. I guess maybe when you're a kid, people are a little more merciful, and when you're a man, they're not. What I used to be think was that racist people should move out of areas they don't like, and now I'm in the position of not being able to afford to leave this town, no matter how much anybody might hint to me that they don't want me here. I used to be great at karate, but now I have arthritis.
If a popular left-wing movement and legal hurdles and so on take away your voice, how can you share your critical perspective? If you actually know something the left-wing guy is missing out on that makes him a little naive, how can you tell him about it?
You know, swastikas, confederate flags, and slurs are really bold and over the top, I think, but could those people even have just calmly talked about their experiences and fears? And will it get even harder, in reaction to Charlottesville, for them even to do just that?
2
No they never could talk sensibly. Is it sensible to have a stated goal of a white america, ruled by only white people. And that others will be imprisoned, driven away, or killed. These people want what Hitler did in germany. Now I don't know how one can talk sensibly with someone who supports Hitler and his goals.
It just seems weird that a big part of being left-wing and tolerant is supposed to be being open-minded toward, even respectful of, other people's views, and yet despite that, it often ends with the right-wing.
Like, if having that open-minded attitude is such a morally correct and intelligent thing to do, why aren't we interested in examining the right-wing and maybe trying to find out if there's anything kind of important and credible among their concerns, something that especially should be dealt with in more than a dismissive way.
You know, is there maybe an odd contrast between saying, don't strike Korea, listen to Kim Jong Un, engage with him, listen to ISIS, engage with them, but then saying, don't let the alt right even speak, beat them up in the street and shout them down. And it's when white Americans are facing being a minority by 2040, and this program of relocating refugees here, and climate change that's on the way. You couldn't even flee it all to Ireland or Sweden, because they've got it there now, too. Every place is supposed to host large numbers of refugees, and the refugees have been sexually assaulting women at street celebrations in Germany, beating up people in Swedish neighborhoods, and doing a few ISIS attacks.
Like, if having that open-minded attitude is such a morally correct and intelligent thing to do, why aren't we interested in examining the right-wing and maybe trying to find out if there's anything kind of important and credible among their concerns, something that especially should be dealt with in more than a dismissive way.
You know, is there maybe an odd contrast between saying, don't strike Korea, listen to Kim Jong Un, engage with him, listen to ISIS, engage with them, but then saying, don't let the alt right even speak, beat them up in the street and shout them down. And it's when white Americans are facing being a minority by 2040, and this program of relocating refugees here, and climate change that's on the way. You couldn't even flee it all to Ireland or Sweden, because they've got it there now, too. Every place is supposed to host large numbers of refugees, and the refugees have been sexually assaulting women at street celebrations in Germany, beating up people in Swedish neighborhoods, and doing a few ISIS attacks.
You use a few isolated incidents to condemn everyone. Talk to the right wing. I have, the answer is lies and insults from them. The right has done the best it could to make liberal a dirty word. And to insist that only they have the answers.
It is ok to hate LGBTs because the bible. It is ok to say that 60% of the people in the country are not real americans and only they are. It is ok to say that the poor are just takers and don't deserve anything. It is ok to say that all black people are lazy good for nothings. That is what you get from the right.
There is no common ground when the right hates most of us and thinks they should 'take back' the country from the rest of us because we don't agree.
What credible concerns does the right have when they dismiss our concerns. And gee becoming a minority is obviously bad because of the way the right has treated minorities.
The problem is that there is no such thing as race, it was invented to justify slavery and treating other people as animals. And until people like you stop using race as an excuse to hate others, you may have reasons to be concerned about becoming a minority.
We wouldn't have refugees if we didn't insist upon making war upon others. War tends to do that, drive people away from war torn areas to safer places. And the US decided to destroy a country and unleash forces to destroy quite a few countries. Our policies of attacking and killing people, many of them innocents tends to create people who hate us. More war.
It is ok to hate LGBTs because the bible. It is ok to say that 60% of the people in the country are not real americans and only they are. It is ok to say that the poor are just takers and don't deserve anything. It is ok to say that all black people are lazy good for nothings. That is what you get from the right.
There is no common ground when the right hates most of us and thinks they should 'take back' the country from the rest of us because we don't agree.
What credible concerns does the right have when they dismiss our concerns. And gee becoming a minority is obviously bad because of the way the right has treated minorities.
The problem is that there is no such thing as race, it was invented to justify slavery and treating other people as animals. And until people like you stop using race as an excuse to hate others, you may have reasons to be concerned about becoming a minority.
We wouldn't have refugees if we didn't insist upon making war upon others. War tends to do that, drive people away from war torn areas to safer places. And the US decided to destroy a country and unleash forces to destroy quite a few countries. Our policies of attacking and killing people, many of them innocents tends to create people who hate us. More war.
Decedents of the 400,00 WW2 dead vets and patriotic Americans need to educate these traitors- and their enabler Donald Trump.
6
The Trump Presidency already is creating a seminal moment in American history.
A moment encouraging segments of America to turn their back on any healing progress in our country on race issues, urging hate and division.
A moment that is enabling all the filthy racists to drop their hoods, take up arms and head to the streets of America and spread their hate, backing it up with violence.
A lot of us knew all along that "make America great again" was actually code for "make America white again". The alt-right heard that message, loud and clear, and now feel empowered.
These people aren't going away.
A moment encouraging segments of America to turn their back on any healing progress in our country on race issues, urging hate and division.
A moment that is enabling all the filthy racists to drop their hoods, take up arms and head to the streets of America and spread their hate, backing it up with violence.
A lot of us knew all along that "make America great again" was actually code for "make America white again". The alt-right heard that message, loud and clear, and now feel empowered.
These people aren't going away.
5
Please don't provide Spencer with the slightest legitimacy with such words as "prominent."
He is a Hitler wannabe--quite literally, imitating him down to the hanging forelock and blue suit.
He is living some kind of Fascist fantasy, as are many of the profoundly disturbed that find their way to this small group.
Don't shine a spotlight here--that's what they seek.
Ignore them with determination--like the misguided children that they are.
He is a Hitler wannabe--quite literally, imitating him down to the hanging forelock and blue suit.
He is living some kind of Fascist fantasy, as are many of the profoundly disturbed that find their way to this small group.
Don't shine a spotlight here--that's what they seek.
Ignore them with determination--like the misguided children that they are.
4
Spencer and his ilk flourish in the dark and the silence . We must shine a spotlight on these people, report their actions and actively resist them. They will take over if we pretend they don't exist.
After at least eight years of violent left-wing protests being ignored by the media, one right-wing rally at which violence occurred - most of which was instigated by the left-wing "counter protesters" - has been on the front page for at least three days and counting?
What happened at this rally was a tragedy. The neo-Nazis are morons and hate mongers. BUT, the left-wing anarchists, self-identified "resistance" members, and other idiot "antifa" were the cause of the violence.
Does anybody really believe the people attending the rally were looking to commit acts of violence? If so, they were heavily armed, why didn't they start shooting?
I hate Nazis. But, they have a right to march (the Supreme Court said so). And, they have a right to do so without having their rally disrupted by a bunch of idiots looking to cause a problem, throwing bottles, and trying to shout them down.
Has anyone ever seen a right-wing counter protest at a left-wing rally? Where were the neo-Nazis on the day Madonna was shouting that she'd like to bomb the White House?
Nazis are idiots. Anarchists are idiots. And, the media feeds the trolls.
This will not end until we start talking, rather than shouting and throwing things. If we don't do that, then this simply will not end well.
What happened at this rally was a tragedy. The neo-Nazis are morons and hate mongers. BUT, the left-wing anarchists, self-identified "resistance" members, and other idiot "antifa" were the cause of the violence.
Does anybody really believe the people attending the rally were looking to commit acts of violence? If so, they were heavily armed, why didn't they start shooting?
I hate Nazis. But, they have a right to march (the Supreme Court said so). And, they have a right to do so without having their rally disrupted by a bunch of idiots looking to cause a problem, throwing bottles, and trying to shout them down.
Has anyone ever seen a right-wing counter protest at a left-wing rally? Where were the neo-Nazis on the day Madonna was shouting that she'd like to bomb the White House?
Nazis are idiots. Anarchists are idiots. And, the media feeds the trolls.
This will not end until we start talking, rather than shouting and throwing things. If we don't do that, then this simply will not end well.
3
Yes, I believe they came for violence. They came heavily armed with shields, clubs, guns, etc. They weren't coming for a picnic.
On the left we condemn those like Madonna for promoting violence.
What I have seen at leftist rallies is police come into peaceful crowds spraying pepper spray and beating people who are sitting still. That is what happened at occupy wall st rallies.
Yet the police never bother a right wing rally, they don't pepper spray or beat those people with clubs. Of course the right wing comes heavily armed which the left doesn't do. Much easier to beat an unarmed person than one with a rifle.
On the left we condemn those like Madonna for promoting violence.
What I have seen at leftist rallies is police come into peaceful crowds spraying pepper spray and beating people who are sitting still. That is what happened at occupy wall st rallies.
Yet the police never bother a right wing rally, they don't pepper spray or beat those people with clubs. Of course the right wing comes heavily armed which the left doesn't do. Much easier to beat an unarmed person than one with a rifle.
1
"The president’s reluctance to single out the far right reflects a widely held conservative belief that the media overlooks left-wing extremism.
Only in the minds of regressive right wing equivocators and prevaricators does there exist any "left-wing" extremism the likes of which was on display last weekend by the alt-reich. No one, and I mean NO ONE on "the left" (define that as you wish) so willingly, vocally, sincerely and violently embraces such a horrible ideology like "national socialism" which is noting other that Fascism with a misleading name.
Even half-sane, so called conservatives are playing the blame game, by calling out what they coined as the"alt-left," as if there is an equivalent of this neo-nazi nonsense on the opposite of the political spectrum when there clearly is not, but this is the same old conservative rhetorical smoke screen designed to switch the conversation from us, those who are causing a problem, to "them" those who dare oppose it.
Only in the minds of regressive right wing equivocators and prevaricators does there exist any "left-wing" extremism the likes of which was on display last weekend by the alt-reich. No one, and I mean NO ONE on "the left" (define that as you wish) so willingly, vocally, sincerely and violently embraces such a horrible ideology like "national socialism" which is noting other that Fascism with a misleading name.
Even half-sane, so called conservatives are playing the blame game, by calling out what they coined as the"alt-left," as if there is an equivalent of this neo-nazi nonsense on the opposite of the political spectrum when there clearly is not, but this is the same old conservative rhetorical smoke screen designed to switch the conversation from us, those who are causing a problem, to "them" those who dare oppose it.
These far right misfits can only succeed if the rest of the country (businesses, public, government at all levels) lets them. Speak out whenever and wherever you can if you want them to crawl back into their swamps. Otherwise we will suffer the consequences of their sick and hateful ways. These less-than-human folks are supposedly religious and attend church, so where are those priests to teach them what is right and wrong according to the gospel? If you believe in God, or if you don't, then you should also believe in the all the principles of good and evil. And these far right folks are evil - they will for sure go to hell.
1
It is beyond painful to see a photo of a woman of color kneeling at Spencer's feet, holding a microphone through which he can amplify and spread his soul-sick message (I know - she's just doing her job). Yes, cover these despicable people so that they're exposed, but recognize the difference between that and giving them an unfettered platform.
1
I believe what is called for is for groups of African-American and other brown-skinned people to join the white supremacist protests, but with "whiteface" make-up, dressed in camouflage fatigues, wearing Waffen-SS helmets, with high-capacity super-squirters slung over their shoulders. I would argue that parody is the best weapon the war against the deplorables.
1
In 50 years there will be very few whites in the US. Can we avoid conflict long enough for these idiots to get senile and die surrounded by their brown grandkids.
1
A Florida lawyer who hilariously calls himself Augustis Sol Invictus is going to run for Republican nomination. What comics and war books are these idiots reading?
Put them in a WW I trench or in the middle of WWII street fighting and they'd be crying for their mothers in about 10 seconds. They just need to stop play acting and go back to the forests they came from.
Put them in a WW I trench or in the middle of WWII street fighting and they'd be crying for their mothers in about 10 seconds. They just need to stop play acting and go back to the forests they came from.
1
The far left whackos are just as bad as the far right. In fact it is the Left that starts riots causing damage to people and property. The anti fa will face certain prosecution if they continue. Trump and Sessions have had it with these snowflakes who desire unrest. I say beat the living hell out of them all. Obama allowed the Far Left to bloom and in fact is now , along with Eric (the gun runner) Holder and Valerie (Muslim devotee) Jarrett who leads this bunch of malcontents. Time to deal with them as the Anti Americans they are. These are the problems, not the solutions of America. Cannot wait for Obama to make a wrong move and get charged with some form of interference. He was in fact one of our Worst Presidents ever
White nationalist groups are expressions of the same seriously flawed identity politics concept that people are using for ostensibly positive purposes pertaining to "minority groups" such as blacks, gays, transgender people, etc. I could see a long time ago that there are some serious problems resulting if you create a legitimate cause and an identity around every kind of identity except being white. All systems seek holistic balance, and you cannot create a philosophy or system which seems to have no place for white people except if they come kneel down and apologize for their race at the feet of an Al Sharpton. So in a sense you can say that the existence of white nationalists, is a guaranteed by the imbalance and distortions of identity politics.
And this seemed clear to me before the disaffectation and economic marginalization of millions of poor and working class white Americans.
There is an inconsistency in the neo-Nazis linking of Nazism with white nationalism. Hitler and the Nazis did not act out of a belief in the superiority of white people as a group. They believed in the superiority of the Germanic race. They viewed non-Germanic whites, in partciular Slavic people, as sub-human, "Untermenschen". (see pg 49, The Death of East Prussia " by Peter B Clark) This led to a horrific brutality of the Nazi soldiers against Soviet citizens. An adoption of a true Nazi persepctive would thus put a serious divide into the heart of "white nationalism".
And this seemed clear to me before the disaffectation and economic marginalization of millions of poor and working class white Americans.
There is an inconsistency in the neo-Nazis linking of Nazism with white nationalism. Hitler and the Nazis did not act out of a belief in the superiority of white people as a group. They believed in the superiority of the Germanic race. They viewed non-Germanic whites, in partciular Slavic people, as sub-human, "Untermenschen". (see pg 49, The Death of East Prussia " by Peter B Clark) This led to a horrific brutality of the Nazi soldiers against Soviet citizens. An adoption of a true Nazi persepctive would thus put a serious divide into the heart of "white nationalism".
15
This black/white naming problem is really an outgrowth of American slavery. White Americans came here as immigrants. And actually most immigrants were not included in the list of "white people" being kept that the time. They were referred to by their ethnic origin as Irish, Italian, Polish, Jewish, Russian, etc. And those groups managed to keep their ethnic -- not "white" -- sense of identity alive even until today.
But black people are called "black" as a group because slavery stripped away any record of their ethnicity as Yorubans, Bantu, Masai, Senegalese, etc.
I have never thought of myself as having some "white" ethnic heritage. I think of myself as having Irish and British heritage. But black Americans have to get their DNA tested and research the records of slave traders to discover their African ethnicity. That identity annihilation is one of the crimes of slavery.
But black people are called "black" as a group because slavery stripped away any record of their ethnicity as Yorubans, Bantu, Masai, Senegalese, etc.
I have never thought of myself as having some "white" ethnic heritage. I think of myself as having Irish and British heritage. But black Americans have to get their DNA tested and research the records of slave traders to discover their African ethnicity. That identity annihilation is one of the crimes of slavery.
Of course there is an inconsistency. "Race" and expressions of nationalism ("German," "Russian," "British," and "American") rely as much upon myth, as they do upon any real ascertainable facts. What is ironic and very peculiar, is given this constituency for Trump, how the Russian government, which makes much of its Russian anti-fascist history (a very legitimate claim) still manages to express support for him. (And for other leaders with similar inclinations: Victor Orban.).
Your letter makes some good points, but you seem blind to the historical basis of white nationalism in racism--the original identity politics underlying conquest and slavery, for instance. If this history did not exist other groups would have no need to assert their identity.
2
What if guys like Spencer gave a press conference and nobody came? In retrospect, a little less coverage of Trump's campaign might have been a good thing. The strategy of shining a light on him in the hope that it would lead to the end of his political career didn't work too well. Goes back to the old saying that there's no such thing as bad publicity.
7
Yeah, but the internet and social media offer a lot more publicity than a tally.
"Identity Politics" is the new buzzword being bandied about by pundits and media outlets on both sides. And practically all of them miss the point.
This morass is not about "identity" but the strong belief of victimization. Whether KKK, anti-fasca, Conservative, Liberal...it's all the same deck of cards. While the Left has far more experience in playing the victimization card, the Right is rapidly catching up.
Unfortunately, all the media does is add fuel to the fire by way of non-stop publicity, ad nauseum commentary, and "if it bleeds it leads" front pages designed to provoke as much mayhem as possible in time for the morning editions.
The sad truth is that unless we address this disease of victimization, this infection will spread irretrievably. Bandaids like blaming "identity-politics" not only will not treat its cause, but further postpone truly addressing this issue.
This morass is not about "identity" but the strong belief of victimization. Whether KKK, anti-fasca, Conservative, Liberal...it's all the same deck of cards. While the Left has far more experience in playing the victimization card, the Right is rapidly catching up.
Unfortunately, all the media does is add fuel to the fire by way of non-stop publicity, ad nauseum commentary, and "if it bleeds it leads" front pages designed to provoke as much mayhem as possible in time for the morning editions.
The sad truth is that unless we address this disease of victimization, this infection will spread irretrievably. Bandaids like blaming "identity-politics" not only will not treat its cause, but further postpone truly addressing this issue.
3
The problem is that minorities have truly been victims of discrimination and hate. They have just cause to protest unfair treatment.
These white people have never faced discrimination because of the color of their skin. They are the people in power, compared to population whites outnumber all other groups in holding positions of power.
In business, white males are about 80% of the top leadership. And they are not even 50% of the population.
These people are whining because instead of excluding others from power as had been done for so long, others are now getting power and the white men have to share. Boo hoo.
These white people have never faced discrimination because of the color of their skin. They are the people in power, compared to population whites outnumber all other groups in holding positions of power.
In business, white males are about 80% of the top leadership. And they are not even 50% of the population.
These people are whining because instead of excluding others from power as had been done for so long, others are now getting power and the white men have to share. Boo hoo.
The fact are this country is deeply divided , while thesis guys are in the very extreme a great many folks see the coasts as a different nation than the one they live in and it is not going to change. The "United " states are no more and it is really time for a peaceful division of the country in to regional independent nations.
1
It seems that no one is bothering to mention the well established concept, law, and judicial precedent stating clearly that there is a limit to free speech. "Free speech" and "first amendment" is bantered around like the law is on the side of hate and terror advocates. It most decidedly is not. Could the NYT clear this up please?
1
I believe these folks have overstepped the bounds of free speech.
Arms and armor do not constitute speech. Neither to crowds of people with assault weapons.
As for the speech itself, it seems to me there must be some attempt to communicate something other than rage on the level of impotent children, which is pretty much all they have.
Free speech itself does not imply the ability to go anywhere at any time and say anything no matter how provoking or hurtful.
That they have found sympathetic ears, and outright support, at the highest levels of our now ridiculous excuse for a government offers no meaningful support for their actions.
There is an easy distinction between speech, even extreme and unhelpful speech, and provocation for its own sake. We make such distinctions elsewehere in the law. Why not here?
Arms and armor do not constitute speech. Neither to crowds of people with assault weapons.
As for the speech itself, it seems to me there must be some attempt to communicate something other than rage on the level of impotent children, which is pretty much all they have.
Free speech itself does not imply the ability to go anywhere at any time and say anything no matter how provoking or hurtful.
That they have found sympathetic ears, and outright support, at the highest levels of our now ridiculous excuse for a government offers no meaningful support for their actions.
There is an easy distinction between speech, even extreme and unhelpful speech, and provocation for its own sake. We make such distinctions elsewehere in the law. Why not here?
4
There is nothing noble about memorializing the Confederate era. It was a war the South fought to preserve the institution of slavery and nothing else. There was nothing grand or noble about the institution of slavery and no amount of statues or flags from will change that. The Grand Old South was only grand on the backs of a race that was enslaved
5
"Some hard-line conservatives beat Mr. Trump to the punch, apparently concluding that the marchers had gone too far and that their aggressiveness and messages could hurt the movement."
When exactly does "hurting the country and its citizens" become a concern?
When exactly does "hurting the country and its citizens" become a concern?
2
They do have a constitutional right to express their opinions no matter how obnoxious (the constitution does not say that only decent people have that right). But require permits and assign separate locations to keep the two groups apart. The difference between the two groups would be obvious to everyone. When the two groups intermingle and fights break out then the decent protesters are sinking to the level of the far-right nut cases. I know passions are high but decent people need to control themselves if they not want to be viewed as far-left wackos. Remember M. L. King – he was peaceful but effective.
1
There are limits to free speech as per the Supreme Court. One cannot incite violence and that is what these people are doing.
1
It's true that the alt-right has been excited and emboldened by all the attention it's getting. Overgrown boys love limelight -- compare the Taliban. However, I'm not sure that the opposite is true, as some commentators have suggested -- that the problem would go away if ignored. These terrorists have been sitting around in their man-caves for decades, ignored by all but the Southern Poverty Law Center. But Republican strategists and the internet have given them a sense of solidarity and empowerment that's not going away any time soon. I would love to think of legal and ideological strategies to make them disappear again. Divide and conquer might be a good start.
2
Thanks to Trump these fringe groups have come out from under the rocks they've been hiding under for years. They've been emboldened by the power of the presidency, and I fear that something truly horrific is going to happen unless they are stopped immediately.
After reading the articles on the Charlottesville riots, I found myself the most disheartened that I've been since watching the 2016 poll results come in (and that's saying a lot considering there's been disappointing news nearly everyday since last November). While I'm obviously upset about Trump's response (or lack thereof) to Saturday's events, I find myself once again disheartened by my neighbors. While our administration needs to address the grievances clearly felt by some in "forgotten" rural America, this is pure bigotry. I don't have time for people who argue that this behavior stems from economic anxiety. Come on, be honest. This is straight racism espoused by some who have never been discriminated against a day in their lives.
119
Unfortunately they have won just like Trump. The media in its eagerness is giving them a global platform with not just news about them but also marketable quotes. Good luck America.
27
Funny of the media to make this comment an Editor's Pick, as if they agree...while doing exactly what you are blaming them of doing! I agree with you by the way.
We must be made aware of the cancer so we can cut it out. The Media is doing their part to save America from the Nazis.
Evil flourishes in the dark. Shining a huge bright spotlight on the blight opens people's eyes.
If the main reason these bozos act out is to get media coverage, wouldn't it be wise for the press to ignore them?
2
While our Constitution protects Freedom of Speech, it does not include or give permission for violence or threats of intimidation of violence. When permits are issued for these free speech rallies by any group, it should include express provision that weapons or arms are not permitted and any threats or intimidation of violence will not be tolerated.
I'm all for 'Free Speech' but it should be limited to 'speech' in the form or spoken or written words. People are then free to listen/ignore those spoken or written words.
In the case of the white supremacist type groups, the ideal response would be to totally ignore their speech. What they want mostly is attention which they don't deserve.
I'm all for 'Free Speech' but it should be limited to 'speech' in the form or spoken or written words. People are then free to listen/ignore those spoken or written words.
In the case of the white supremacist type groups, the ideal response would be to totally ignore their speech. What they want mostly is attention which they don't deserve.
5
What if one's form of speech is a large Christian cross mounted atop the roof of his house? Or a Star of David? Or a swastika? Should one ... any ... be prohibited by law?
I hope every single person who voted for Trump now understands what that vote meant and what it has done to America.
21
And run as what? Republicans? Makes sense.
6
As long as open carry is a law in states where the white supremacist rallies occur there is a delicate balance that has the potential to turn into a bloodbath. Policemen can shoot a teenager who is carrying a pellet gun, but stand there and watch while a militia with "better guns" marches by.
The tone of the debate will change after the first bloodbath, but Second Amendment true believers will still stand up for the right of armed militias to confront police departments on the streets. Police just stand there and watch, for what purpose isn't clear. With their handguns they are no match for armed thugs with assault rifles and body armor.
Am I the only one who sees a problem here? It would seem so from the tone of the articles and the comments.
The tone of the debate will change after the first bloodbath, but Second Amendment true believers will still stand up for the right of armed militias to confront police departments on the streets. Police just stand there and watch, for what purpose isn't clear. With their handguns they are no match for armed thugs with assault rifles and body armor.
Am I the only one who sees a problem here? It would seem so from the tone of the articles and the comments.
24
"being white" is not much of a platform, and being witness to their rhetoric, violence, and stupidity, only dupes, violent and stupid people will likely join them. other than being a horrific distraction from the problems we face as a nation, and a species on this planet, i am hopeful that they go the way of the dodo bird, quickly.
2
I heard of an idea to use the marches of far right as fund raisers for progressive causes. E.g., pledging a dollar per marcher to Planned Parenthood or Southrrn Poverty Law Center.
This idea was used successfully against admirers of Rudolf Hess on Germany.
This idea was used successfully against admirers of Rudolf Hess on Germany.
7
We NEED to start asking them "WHAT do you WANT?" and "HOW will that come to pass?".
I've been saying the people are deadly serious all along. And after Charlottesville now they are. No one should assume this is not a very serious threat. With the implicit support of the illegitimate "administration", and republicans in congress (for as long as they allow this "administration" to be in power). So we need to put them on the spot and ask for specifics. Who get hurt? Who gets killed? How do you create a "white homeland"? Do you simply uproot those that are not white in an area that is designated and kick them out? Would it be a part of the US? Will they impose a state religion? Who will have rights and who will not? How do they plan to keep themselves pure? Do groups of people get line up before machine guns and mowed down? What is their list of folks that they would do away with?
These people are playing with fire. Not willing to come forth into the daylight with exactly how they would implement their ideology. We need to force them to own up to it so we can understand just how dangerous they are.
I've been saying the people are deadly serious all along. And after Charlottesville now they are. No one should assume this is not a very serious threat. With the implicit support of the illegitimate "administration", and republicans in congress (for as long as they allow this "administration" to be in power). So we need to put them on the spot and ask for specifics. Who get hurt? Who gets killed? How do you create a "white homeland"? Do you simply uproot those that are not white in an area that is designated and kick them out? Would it be a part of the US? Will they impose a state religion? Who will have rights and who will not? How do they plan to keep themselves pure? Do groups of people get line up before machine guns and mowed down? What is their list of folks that they would do away with?
These people are playing with fire. Not willing to come forth into the daylight with exactly how they would implement their ideology. We need to force them to own up to it so we can understand just how dangerous they are.
7
What they mostly want is to keep their Confederate statues. Thats what started all this. And they want to stop immigration, because they dont want America to become majority non-white and culturally non-European. I dont think most of them are seeking violence. You dont have to agree with them, but you also probably dont need to be terrified.
Then you aren't listening. Their stated goal is to create a white homeland with everybody else out of it. It is what they are working for. The statues are just an issue they can use.
more than half of the people I know who voted Trump were in the mind set of "anybody but the other candidate", and I am sure this number is far more than those ultra right group yet he thinks he owes for his Presidency? if he or other loyalists dream about re-election next round, they will have rude awakening unless the Democrats choose another person of impeccable character to challenge. when a Muslim ram into people, killing and injuring it would be world-condemnation but because it is white American, he is one of "all sides"?
3
Every one of the front marching supremacist wore plastic guards and carried billy clubs as if they were an opposition army. They should not be making plans, they should be arrested.
20
Trump, Le Pen, Brexit etc are symptoms and not cause. Elites in every country try to convince people that schism in their societies are caused not by the economic disparities but by religion, color, caste and such other differences. Such a divide and rule tactics may succeed to keep the elites on the top of the food chain but may also dangerously backfire and engulf the society in flames. US should try and address the rising economic inequality before it's too late. A man /woman) with great future does not try to burn the country and his/her future down
5
No surprises here. It's all part of the same marketing plan. Angry people, losers or not, can be gathered up and manipulated so easily. True throughout history.
Tell you what, our laws are sometimes imperfect, and beat up on innocents as well as miscreants. Our civil liberties are also a bit vague, so lets consider pushing the envelope toward putting these creeps and fear-mongers on the defensive. Turn a buck on inciting hatred; get tied up in court automatically. Join up with anti-American hoodlums; get picked on, exposed, harassed. If we can't enlighten most of these deplorables, we can at least make being one much more unrewarding. Lets give them the same treatment we give other predators -- public exposure, close monitoring, and yes, discrimination.
Tell you what, our laws are sometimes imperfect, and beat up on innocents as well as miscreants. Our civil liberties are also a bit vague, so lets consider pushing the envelope toward putting these creeps and fear-mongers on the defensive. Turn a buck on inciting hatred; get tied up in court automatically. Join up with anti-American hoodlums; get picked on, exposed, harassed. If we can't enlighten most of these deplorables, we can at least make being one much more unrewarding. Lets give them the same treatment we give other predators -- public exposure, close monitoring, and yes, discrimination.
2
Americans will protest against white supremacist demonstrations everywhere they go, as their entire premise is unAmerican. We are all equal under the law and changing that would mean complete destruction of our nation. It is enough that we are too divided politically to function properly; we don't need clueless bigots and racists trying to control the dialog as well.
1
I deplore the NY times usage of associating alt-right with white supremacists. There is nothing right wing about white supremacists - any more than there is any alt-left association with antifa a group which supports violence to suppress those who think differently. The true left is strong supporters of free-speech. The white supremacists and antifa both share a lot in common. I disagree with those who suggest ignoring the white supremacist protests. We denounce and should denounce them - in doing so we should not become like them though - and we should be careful how we label everyone both on the right and the left.
1
I think these rallies need to be confronted with calm, peaceful counter protesters. We can't ignore them because the internet and social media have made it so easy to feed people hate, misinformation, and conspiracy theories and thus to grow their ranks. Any in-person protest, however, needs to be confronted with the far greater "force" of non-violent protest. Martin Luther King, Jr. faced far worse crowds of white supremacists, and he did it while singing "We Shall Overcome." Let's follow his lead.
It works and it shows respect for all lives.
It works and it shows respect for all lives.
7
Many of the counter protesters at Saturday's event were there with the intention of peaceful resistance. Have you ever tried standing by passively while an angry, hateful, armed gang menacingly advanced toward you? Try it sometime. Easier said than done.
It's a little weird how much media, political, and ultimately legal opposition there is to means the far right might want to use. The far right can say they want to do stuff, and can make other exuberant statements- but will they really be able to do it? Could you like write a book and put it in a bookstore, could you rent a hall and talk to people there?
All the opposition is exactly what I would have wanted when I was younger, but now that I'm older, I don't know.
It used to be that neither of the two malls around here were black or white, then for a very long time one was black and one was white. Now the other is turning black. We had a couple of white Walmarts around here for a while and a couple of black Walmarts, and now they're all turning black.
It seems like the far right is still sort of a silent majority in the US, in the face of all the opposition. Yet, it's like there's more and more indication all the time of hindrances set up to their doing what they might want to do, getting their word out, or expressing themselves in other ways, trying to exclude people they don't want around and stuff.
I don't know. America and Europe are going to have it put to the test, it may be, as to whether today's kind of multiethnic societies are up to solving the problems the world will face in the future. It looks like the prospect of approaching those serious problems with a white-led or white-dominated world may be something from the past.
All the opposition is exactly what I would have wanted when I was younger, but now that I'm older, I don't know.
It used to be that neither of the two malls around here were black or white, then for a very long time one was black and one was white. Now the other is turning black. We had a couple of white Walmarts around here for a while and a couple of black Walmarts, and now they're all turning black.
It seems like the far right is still sort of a silent majority in the US, in the face of all the opposition. Yet, it's like there's more and more indication all the time of hindrances set up to their doing what they might want to do, getting their word out, or expressing themselves in other ways, trying to exclude people they don't want around and stuff.
I don't know. America and Europe are going to have it put to the test, it may be, as to whether today's kind of multiethnic societies are up to solving the problems the world will face in the future. It looks like the prospect of approaching those serious problems with a white-led or white-dominated world may be something from the past.
1
These are foremost among the people President Trump is counting on to fill the streets if/when his presidency is threatened with prosecution by Robert Mueller. And that is one of the reasons he has been so reluctant to call them out.
3
Please do not use the phrase "white heritage symbols" in your articles as a generic term for Confederate monuments. Monuments to the Confederacy may be called many things, but I do not want that shameful portion of our history to be conflated with my identity. I am a white southerner, and one of the aspects of my family heritage of which I am most proud is my connection to troops who marched with Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman and burnt a path to the sea on their way through the Confederacy.
4
The Confederates were fighting to keep slavery - this is not a history to be proud of.
I am begging counter protesters not to play the violence game. Do not engage these hate mongers in street fighting or destruction of property. This vile ideology wants nothing more than media attention, to be turned into "victims" and to be treated like a real movement, which they need to legitimize their "cause". Deny them this by taking the high road and using intellectual argument, reason and the law to take them down. Political organizing and pressure campaigns, reasoned arguments articulated loudly and calmly, ingenuity of protest methods, and moral arguments will be the most effective counter protest.
6
"“You have Republicans and Democrats united in the purpose of genociding our people."
Who is architecting all this genociding?
Who is architecting all this genociding?
1
Fascism started this way in Germany with Jews as the primary target. Also included were Communists, et al.
9
I hope that all law enforcement agencies (local police, state troopers, FBI) will cover the next demonstration better this time. Sadly there were 3 deaths associated with these vile low-class types, and I hope there won't be any trouble next time. I couldn't believe how armed the KKK members ( I call them for what they are, not what they want us to call them), and fortunately, they didn't use their weapons.
It's too bad these low-lifes are getting all this publicity, but then again it's your constitution that allows them their freedom of expression and demonstration.
On the other hand, reportage allows us to see them for what they are, and to keep them from hiding under rocks. Sadly, the publicity is what they want.
I hope the Trump and his different secretaries (e.g. homeland security, etc.) will be better prepared this time, and will watch these groups! Remember that if people do nothing, then these low-lifes will feel emboldened to go to the next level. This may not be Nazi Germany, but it's no children's playground either!
It's too bad these low-lifes are getting all this publicity, but then again it's your constitution that allows them their freedom of expression and demonstration.
On the other hand, reportage allows us to see them for what they are, and to keep them from hiding under rocks. Sadly, the publicity is what they want.
I hope the Trump and his different secretaries (e.g. homeland security, etc.) will be better prepared this time, and will watch these groups! Remember that if people do nothing, then these low-lifes will feel emboldened to go to the next level. This may not be Nazi Germany, but it's no children's playground either!
3
New York City has dump trucks surrounding The Con Don's building to protect him. Perhaps any city or town where the haters show up should surround the "protest" area with dump trucks as well. Garbage trucks - how fitting.
They should also suspend laws that allow haters to bring guns.
They should also suspend laws that allow haters to bring guns.
10
The "common-sense" advice is to ignore these loonies. How could anybody possibly take them seriously?
On the surface that seems to make sense. However, isn't that how Donald Trump got elected? How could anybody possibly take this blowhard seriously? The New York Times poll predicted that Trump only had a 10% to 20% chance of getting elected. On the night of the election, itself, Trump's own team was sounding demoralized in advance of the poll closings. And then... we all woke up to a new reality or a new nightmare the next morning.
I think that there should be a determined effort to eliminate every last vestige of white supremacy from American culture.
People should not be confused about the removal of Confederate statues and the renaming of landmarks. This is not the ISIS-style desecration of the 2,000 year-old achievements of preceding civilizations.
These are Jim Crow relics erected mainly in the 1920's through the 1960's to promote division and bolster the remnants of the plantation aristocracy and their hangers-on. Getting rid of these symbols is no different than taking down Colored and White Only bathroom and drinking fountain signs.
It is illegal in Germany today to give the Hitler salute. Why should it be any different in America? First amendment rights should not include allowing Nazis, KKK members, and similar groups to promote their reactionary wares. Hate groups are the authors of hate crimes and that has no legitimate place in contemporary society.
On the surface that seems to make sense. However, isn't that how Donald Trump got elected? How could anybody possibly take this blowhard seriously? The New York Times poll predicted that Trump only had a 10% to 20% chance of getting elected. On the night of the election, itself, Trump's own team was sounding demoralized in advance of the poll closings. And then... we all woke up to a new reality or a new nightmare the next morning.
I think that there should be a determined effort to eliminate every last vestige of white supremacy from American culture.
People should not be confused about the removal of Confederate statues and the renaming of landmarks. This is not the ISIS-style desecration of the 2,000 year-old achievements of preceding civilizations.
These are Jim Crow relics erected mainly in the 1920's through the 1960's to promote division and bolster the remnants of the plantation aristocracy and their hangers-on. Getting rid of these symbols is no different than taking down Colored and White Only bathroom and drinking fountain signs.
It is illegal in Germany today to give the Hitler salute. Why should it be any different in America? First amendment rights should not include allowing Nazis, KKK members, and similar groups to promote their reactionary wares. Hate groups are the authors of hate crimes and that has no legitimate place in contemporary society.
26
"The "common-sense" advice is to ignore these loonies. How could anybody possibly take them seriously?"
I hope that you don't really mean what you wrote above. We have seen before (Nazi Germany) and now most recently (Turkey, Venezuela, African countries, ISIS, and several other countries) what happens when nobody does anything.
Groups like these, these unmasked KKKers, should not be ignored at all, but carefully watched and stood up to in a peaceful manner, but with apprehension!
Also, how come in the article, these White Supremacists is quoted as saying
that they plan to have many more marches. Can't the authorities and mayors of where these uncloaked KKKers want to march, have the right and authority to prevent them from marching, out of fear for violence?
I hope that you don't really mean what you wrote above. We have seen before (Nazi Germany) and now most recently (Turkey, Venezuela, African countries, ISIS, and several other countries) what happens when nobody does anything.
Groups like these, these unmasked KKKers, should not be ignored at all, but carefully watched and stood up to in a peaceful manner, but with apprehension!
Also, how come in the article, these White Supremacists is quoted as saying
that they plan to have many more marches. Can't the authorities and mayors of where these uncloaked KKKers want to march, have the right and authority to prevent them from marching, out of fear for violence?
6
Majortrout,
I think you misread his comment. He's emphatically arguing against inaction.
I think you misread his comment. He's emphatically arguing against inaction.
3
"How could anybody possibly take them seriously?"
We went to school and learned history. Are you sure you're white and male and straight and Christian and conservative enough to be safe from these Nazis?
We went to school and learned history. Are you sure you're white and male and straight and Christian and conservative enough to be safe from these Nazis?
When the history of this latest iteration of protest--from both sides--is written, it will become patently clear that the spawning ground for violence in the exercise of First Amendment rights was UC Berkeley. and no--not in 1967. In 2017.
Had college administration worked with law enforcement to equally apply the laws re public congregation to both sides, we would not be seeing anything like we are seeing now.
Instead, weak oversight and law enforcement allowed Berkeley to finally come to violence. The media, including this paper, devoured it like a slice of rare roast beef, regurgitating it to their audiences, slanted of course to their side of the story.
From Berkeley on, each major march and protest has resulted in violence that is so predictable as to now almost be innurred, save for the vocal cadre of alt-right, anti-fa and other headline groping fringe individuals and groups.
Unfortunately, violence has been done, not just to Americans, but to the entire reason the First Amendment was promulgated. As Pogo famously said: We have met the enemy. and she is us."
Had college administration worked with law enforcement to equally apply the laws re public congregation to both sides, we would not be seeing anything like we are seeing now.
Instead, weak oversight and law enforcement allowed Berkeley to finally come to violence. The media, including this paper, devoured it like a slice of rare roast beef, regurgitating it to their audiences, slanted of course to their side of the story.
From Berkeley on, each major march and protest has resulted in violence that is so predictable as to now almost be innurred, save for the vocal cadre of alt-right, anti-fa and other headline groping fringe individuals and groups.
Unfortunately, violence has been done, not just to Americans, but to the entire reason the First Amendment was promulgated. As Pogo famously said: We have met the enemy. and she is us."
7
Right. Because these protests are the greatest test of the First Amendment ever.
...literally, choose any year in the 60s and there was probably some violent rally that makes all of this look like a walk through the park.
...literally, choose any year in the 60s and there was probably some violent rally that makes all of this look like a walk through the park.
2
Ah, yes, the whataboutery ("both sides") argument.
These are descendants of people who killed for the right to own slaves, killed for the right to deny Blacks the right to vote, and killed in the name of school segregation, and they are being confronted with their own violent petard as they have been for two centuries.
To draw a simple analogy, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre just to cause mayhem is the fault of he who yells it, and not the crowd that reacts in an uproar.
Berkeley 2017. Please. Another swing and a miss, Grace.
These are descendants of people who killed for the right to own slaves, killed for the right to deny Blacks the right to vote, and killed in the name of school segregation, and they are being confronted with their own violent petard as they have been for two centuries.
To draw a simple analogy, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre just to cause mayhem is the fault of he who yells it, and not the crowd that reacts in an uproar.
Berkeley 2017. Please. Another swing and a miss, Grace.
3
Grace Kelly,
With all due respect, I think protesting to end the war in Vietnam and demonstrating for white dominion over all earthly others are two different things. Recall also, many of those 1960's protesters on college campuses only avoided the draft because of their college deferments.
What else have you got?
With all due respect, I think protesting to end the war in Vietnam and demonstrating for white dominion over all earthly others are two different things. Recall also, many of those 1960's protesters on college campuses only avoided the draft because of their college deferments.
What else have you got?
1
These white supremacists (an oxymoron) who call themselves Christian should be reminded that Jesus was a Jew and was not a white man.
24
I'm curious, did they call themselves Christian?
They should also be reminded that the first man to die in the American Revolution, Crispus Attucks, was not a white man.
Good people will be in every place, every city, every protest to oppose this hatred. This is not America. Not anymore.
6
This is just my opinion.
Good morning, if you believe what I’m going to write do not be afraid and speak it out, say it loud and clear do not cover your face, do not hide.
Say that you believe that God Almighty is wrong and I create different races.Some superior to others, whether you think you are superior or inferior.
Say that you believe that education is below your skin color when it comes to determining your progress in life.
Say that you believe that the color of your eyes determines happiness, that the color of your hair is more important than your values and principles.
Maybe you do not like the world where you live, maybe you want or imagine a perfect world, I'm sorry to disappoint you but that word does not exist.
If you believe the above, ask for Psychological help, check your own childhood maybe the pain and abuse you suffered,in that stage of your life, is a good step where you will find the source of your fears and resentments.
Good morning, if you believe what I’m going to write do not be afraid and speak it out, say it loud and clear do not cover your face, do not hide.
Say that you believe that God Almighty is wrong and I create different races.Some superior to others, whether you think you are superior or inferior.
Say that you believe that education is below your skin color when it comes to determining your progress in life.
Say that you believe that the color of your eyes determines happiness, that the color of your hair is more important than your values and principles.
Maybe you do not like the world where you live, maybe you want or imagine a perfect world, I'm sorry to disappoint you but that word does not exist.
If you believe the above, ask for Psychological help, check your own childhood maybe the pain and abuse you suffered,in that stage of your life, is a good step where you will find the source of your fears and resentments.
3
I overheard a new word today on the radio by a person who attended the Charlottesville event from RI. He refused to name the group with whom he went with but declared himself as being part of the group philosophy of 'Identity-ism'. Then he described that as being a person who is proud of their identity.
There's a new one or way to describe racism.
There's a new one or way to describe racism.
8
Chris.......yes, but "identity-ism" takes many forms. Feminism, black pride, gay pride, etc. Can one be criticized without criticizing the others? Are identity politics simply divisive at the core?
Hi Chris,
If it was the racist and anti-Semitic "Christian Identity Movement" to which he was referring, that group has been around since at least the 1980s when they rose to some prominence in the assortment of white supremacists and Neo-Nazis.
If it was the racist and anti-Semitic "Christian Identity Movement" to which he was referring, that group has been around since at least the 1980s when they rose to some prominence in the assortment of white supremacists and Neo-Nazis.
of course the liberal media will blow this out of proportion for their cause but it really has no place and is hurting the country by continuing to divide people.
I will never understand what causes people to hate others like the far left and right but considering I only see it in the media they make it seem like it's everywhere. Reality is it's not. I live in the city and always feel safe and welcomed with everyone I see and come in contact with and I hope they feel the same.
I know the media will continue to push their agenda and I'll continue to live my life to the best of my ability.
I will never understand what causes people to hate others like the far left and right but considering I only see it in the media they make it seem like it's everywhere. Reality is it's not. I live in the city and always feel safe and welcomed with everyone I see and come in contact with and I hope they feel the same.
I know the media will continue to push their agenda and I'll continue to live my life to the best of my ability.
7
No it is not overblown - although you would not know that from the NY Times coverage. I mistakenly viewed events in Charlottesville as overblown story based on lack of proper police practices any other city would have adopted to prevent violence and although that is true - there is more going on - rippling across America - for example the damage to holocaust memorial in Boston. Extremist groups that desire to take the law into their own hands - Currently it is because an extreme group wants to prevent a government decision to remove a monument (by duly elected officials) or an extreme group wants to remove a monument where the duly elected government hasn't decided to remove a monument they don't like. If this is only over monuments - much worse could happen.
Blow what out of proportion? It's hurting the country to report on the hatred that white supremacy espouses? Continue to keep your head in the sand. You might be interested to know "Minneapolis landed on the 25th spot on the list, with a violent crime rate of 1,063 incidents per 100,000 residents. The website noted that robbery is especially common in Minneapolis, with 459 reported incidents per 100,000 residents – the 10th highest robbery rate in the nation."
This is reported in the Wall St. Journal that notorious left wing paper. Right.
This is reported in the Wall St. Journal that notorious left wing paper. Right.
1
"This is fine."
"On Monday, Austin Gillespie, a conservative Florida lawyer who is better known as Augustus Sol Invictus and attended the “Unite the Right” rally in Virginia, said he planned to announce on Tuesday that he would seek Florida’s Republican nomination for the Senate."
When will the Republican Party stand up against hate?
When will the Republican Party stand up against hate?
22
"When will the Republican Party stand up against hate?"
What and eliminate their base?
What and eliminate their base?
all these events show that gender and black studies need to be expanded to high schools. only this can make white males realize their guilt and need to repent. this will go far in turning back white based racism and misogyny. may it be done today. for the good of the country.
2
Okay, I also think ethnic/gender studies, Third Wave Feminism, intersectionality, and identity politics are corrosive garbage, but there's absolutely no way that all justifies this response. It didn't even cause it. This hatred and insecurity has been sitting just below the surface of American society. For decades. You're making a bad faith argument and you know it.
1
Its exactly people like you who are causing this, telling people they need to feel guilty for the color of their skin. Disgusting.
1
these people need to be outed , fired from their jobs and made unemployable.
6
Trump manipulates the have-not population into misdirecting their desperation and anger toward minorities and old school politicians, just like Hitler did. It’s almost easy to understand how some people cannot see beyond their own needs and fears because they are so trapped and desperate. Trump’s most recent remarks are really for the purpose of calming those followers.
However, the majority of white supremacists are not those people. They are just haters who have had their agenda for well over a century. They are just coming out of the woodwork and sewers like cockroaches and rats, emboldened by a like-minded president.
This recent fissure in their ranks is temporary – a necessary response to an unpopular act by one of their members. Rest assured, they will come together again, for the sake of the movement. The favorable political leadership they are enjoying is too great an opportunity to ruin through infighting. Watch.
However, the majority of white supremacists are not those people. They are just haters who have had their agenda for well over a century. They are just coming out of the woodwork and sewers like cockroaches and rats, emboldened by a like-minded president.
This recent fissure in their ranks is temporary – a necessary response to an unpopular act by one of their members. Rest assured, they will come together again, for the sake of the movement. The favorable political leadership they are enjoying is too great an opportunity to ruin through infighting. Watch.
6
Liberals manipulate the have-not population into misdirecting their desperation and anger toward minorities and old school politicians. It is modern day slavery. They use the angry have nots as their storm troopers to bring about social change -- socialism, if you will. Once the liberal elite have attained their goals, the have-nots will no longer be useful to tham.
Oh how I wish the "white supremacists" would all go in for DNA testing.
279
I wouldn't be surprised to find a lot of Neanderthal DNA mixed in there.
1
Good point. That crowd is just a bunch of mutts (like most of us).
And whites are the very last people who can make a cogent argument for "blood and soil" ownership of anyplace except maybe Scandinavia. South Africa, the United States, Australia- us white dudes are all recent interlopers.
And whites are the very last people who can make a cogent argument for "blood and soil" ownership of anyplace except maybe Scandinavia. South Africa, the United States, Australia- us white dudes are all recent interlopers.
Like the leader of Hungarian Nazis who discovered from his grandmother that he was partly Jewish. :)
1
Trump has released the worst elements of this country by giving them a platform. All true patriots will fight against Trump, his white nationailst supporters and the GOP enablers that gave him the power to destroy our democracy. This is not about freedom of speech is is about fighting the rise of fascism that is Trump's true objective.
16
The republicans will come to know what it feels like to lose all power in Washington in 2018. Do not take this lying down, we all must come out and vote in 2018 don't be complacent.
13
It was very encouraging to see that anti-hate patriotic Americans pulled down a statue of a confederate soldier in Kentucky. It is very encouraging that so many Americans have awakened from their stupor and realize that the America WE THE PEOPLE love is under attack from inside OUR government.
Apparently these monuments to the treasonous southerners who waged war against The United States of America were only installed in the late 50s and early 60s as backlash against President Lyndon Johnson's Civil Rights Act. There is nothing "historic" about them. What kind of a fool would try to equate them with the pyramids in Egypt?
Speak up! Act out! Take a Stand! Turn off and tune out of fox so-called hate news and other hate radio/social media! Fight like hell to save the one thing you value most about democracy in America.
NOW is the time for WE THE PEOPLE to demand the kind of America we want. It is NOT the rabid right, radical religion, nra vision that The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren are trying to sell.
Apparently these monuments to the treasonous southerners who waged war against The United States of America were only installed in the late 50s and early 60s as backlash against President Lyndon Johnson's Civil Rights Act. There is nothing "historic" about them. What kind of a fool would try to equate them with the pyramids in Egypt?
Speak up! Act out! Take a Stand! Turn off and tune out of fox so-called hate news and other hate radio/social media! Fight like hell to save the one thing you value most about democracy in America.
NOW is the time for WE THE PEOPLE to demand the kind of America we want. It is NOT the rabid right, radical religion, nra vision that The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren are trying to sell.
26
These "appearances" by the tiny little minority of people who support racism and white "supremacy" in America should not be shut down. They should be widely publicized so those patriotic Americans how detest this kind of thinking can show up to peacefully counter demonstrate.
These hate fools are radically outnumbered by peaceful, tolerant, racially unbiased Americans and WE must show them and the world just how tiny their movement is and how deeply we detest their way of thinking.
They had to bring people from across America to their ridiculous "demonstration" and they only got a few hundred. Yes, they are outnumbered by reasonable Americans 1 million to one. Let's show them.
These hate fools are radically outnumbered by peaceful, tolerant, racially unbiased Americans and WE must show them and the world just how tiny their movement is and how deeply we detest their way of thinking.
They had to bring people from across America to their ridiculous "demonstration" and they only got a few hundred. Yes, they are outnumbered by reasonable Americans 1 million to one. Let's show them.
9
Your time line on most of the statues is off by decades and decades.
Many date from just after reconstruction.
Cville statues are close to 100 years old.
Many date from just after reconstruction.
Cville statues are close to 100 years old.
Thank you for your comment, Lawrence. Yes, some statues were erected during the decades following the civil war. However, according to Wikipedia, "New Confederate monuments continue to be proposed, and some have been built in recent years. In Arizona, a Sons of Confederate Veterans camp erected a Confederate monument in Phoenix in 1999[7] and Confederate heritage groups dedicated a Confederate memorial in Sierra Vista in 2010.[8] The Delaware Confederate Monument was unveiled in 2007 in Georgetown, Delaware.[9] In South Carolina in 2010, the Sons of Confederate Veterans have sought to erect a monument to mark the 150th anniversary of the passage of the Ordinance of Secession in December 1860, but the cities of Charleston and North Charleston have refused them permission.[10][11]"
It is the resurgence of hate that is the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Con...
It is the resurgence of hate that is the problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Con...
These groups' expression of support for and loyalty to Donald Trump are perversely legitimizing his Presidency. Something Trump urgently seeks.
And the sounds of violence emanating from Charlottesville? Music to his ears.
And the sounds of violence emanating from Charlottesville? Music to his ears.
7
People like Mr. Spencer do not risk their lives when they hold rallies. They have bodyguards and leave if the going gets rough--after they instigate the turmoil.
Much as I love the First Amendment, it may be time for the United States to consider how much we want to protect hate speech. Germany has outlawed it to prevent the rise of fascism there again.
These are scary people who mean to do harm to me, a Jew, and others whom they blame for their problems. Let them rally if we must, but weapons must be off-limits everywhere, including cars.
If they can't be peaceful, they shouldn't be allowed to gather in public.
Much as I love the First Amendment, it may be time for the United States to consider how much we want to protect hate speech. Germany has outlawed it to prevent the rise of fascism there again.
These are scary people who mean to do harm to me, a Jew, and others whom they blame for their problems. Let them rally if we must, but weapons must be off-limits everywhere, including cars.
If they can't be peaceful, they shouldn't be allowed to gather in public.
12
One of the outcomes of all the protest movements against President Trump (Woman's March) and many many others is the growth of the alt right movement. They were upset that people were protesting against our country and president and wanted to show solidarity with him. They were angry with the leftists controlling our country and wanted to take it back.
They have gone a bit too far but it shows us what one can accomplish when anger becomes very strong. It seems to be a movement that shows no sign of stopping.
They have gone a bit too far but it shows us what one can accomplish when anger becomes very strong. It seems to be a movement that shows no sign of stopping.
1
It looks like Trump's extremists supporters are going to give him ample opportunity to prove again and again that he is a soulless husk. I am sure he will live down to their expectations
4
So in talking about future outrage, I have a question: where is the outrage from the Democratic, and Republican!, members of the Senate and House? The smattering is pitiful. Our lovely town was used by these monsters. Can they imagine the horror we experienced? We were sabotaged, defiled, assaulted, battered. We are in shock. These evil, mostly, men committed murder on our street. The monsters tried, and failed badly, to kill our soul. But where is the UNIFIED outcry from Congress?! Senators Warner, Kaine, Delegate Toscano, Mayor Signer, Vice Mayor Bellamy and other elected officials spoke out, loud and clear. So why isn't the majority of Congress holding a JOINT press conference to do same? Have they ever heard of doing what's right TOGETHER for the sake of our country? Dribbles of condemnation are appreciated but that is not enough. Some, and shame on them, have said zero. Future "rallies" are coming to their towns too. Where is the leadership on a national level? Forget the WH, we all know they are hopeless at getting anything right.
5
How many of these groups are tax-exempt and/or donations to them are deductible?
Where any of these groups part of the flood of post-Citizen United applications that flooded the IRS? An IRS that had already been weakened by GOP budget cuts and relentless hectoring by the Norquist Pledgers?
Is this why Gowdy and Chaffetz were so hot to impeach IRS Commissioner John Koskinen? Were they protecting funding for these terrorist operations?
Follow the money: Just like ISIS or Al Quaeda, these people have to eat; the question is: Who is feeding them?
Where any of these groups part of the flood of post-Citizen United applications that flooded the IRS? An IRS that had already been weakened by GOP budget cuts and relentless hectoring by the Norquist Pledgers?
Is this why Gowdy and Chaffetz were so hot to impeach IRS Commissioner John Koskinen? Were they protecting funding for these terrorist operations?
Follow the money: Just like ISIS or Al Quaeda, these people have to eat; the question is: Who is feeding them?
4
Hatred ,bigotry, constant illusion of self grandeur all add up to people who are lacking in themselves. Either socially, academically, so they blame other people. I bet most of these people don't know minorities, haven't been affected by any, just need someone to blame for their supposed wrongs in their lives. Were any Women marching?
2
Just looking at these largely white men, it's no surprise they have issues. They wear their inner ugliness for all to see on the outside. And lest anyone forget, they believe that women over the age of 30 not bearing children are a drain on society and useless. They said unspeakable things about Heather Heyer after they killed her. The White Supremacists and their enablers in the Oval all need to go. What a blight on America. Trump's ridiculous campaign slogan "maga" was a total dogwhistle to this faction. Rise up and defeat this agenda at the polls - flip Congress in '18. Block Trump from anything and enable the start of impeachment if Mueller doesn't make progress sooner.
4
Recent research has shown that when Homo Sapiens (modern humans) migrated out of Africa into Europe and West Asia, they encountered more ancient Neanderthal and Denisovan people that were already there, from a previous migration out of Africa. DNA analyses show that these recently arrived modern humans bred with the locals, and most people of European and Asian descent today carry a small percent of Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA as mixed hybrids. Modern humans that remained in Sub-Saharan Africa do not carry this Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA, and are thus not hybrids.
Modern people of white skin are hybrids with what we used to call "cave men".
Modern people of dark skin, from Sub-Saharan Africa are solely modern human.
Mr. Spencer: Tell us again which is the more "pure" race?
Modern people of white skin are hybrids with what we used to call "cave men".
Modern people of dark skin, from Sub-Saharan Africa are solely modern human.
Mr. Spencer: Tell us again which is the more "pure" race?
4
These are domestic terrorists and there needs to be a strong federal response to quell this uprising. Nip it in the bud, so to speak.
3
Thanks Trump. Anybody who couldn't see this coming is willfully blind. Another sweet facet of their hate is misogyny. Calling the poor dead woman horrible names. Now they are organizing to demonstrate at her funeral. Hopefully there are enough decent people left in this country to be disgusted by this and turn away.
2
We are in fact a one party country and have been since FDR--two Politburos, RNC and DNC--acting as one, pretending to be two, with a Sovietized media to support their joint narrative of spendthrift uber alles, which is what makes Trump such an unnerving event for them. In short, our political process is a fraud.
If Europe can have right-wing and left-wing parties representing the extremes, why not here?
Time to accept the fact that the Chautauqua Tent RNC-DNC Politburo no longer works--despite the Federal spending of eight years of Bush-Cheney Congress-approved warmongering and eight years of Obama cultural Marxism and Gold-Standard open-borders.
If Europe can have right-wing and left-wing parties representing the extremes, why not here?
Time to accept the fact that the Chautauqua Tent RNC-DNC Politburo no longer works--despite the Federal spending of eight years of Bush-Cheney Congress-approved warmongering and eight years of Obama cultural Marxism and Gold-Standard open-borders.
2
Where were you when the Republicans obstructed Obama every step on the way? It's cynically disengaged "doesn't make a difference" thinkers like you that gave us Trump, as much as white nationalists and disgruntled blue collar workers.
Mike Cernovich was slightly wrong when he said "“The alt-right will now be made up of losers with nothing to lose,”
"will now be" was incorrect. The alt-right IS made up of losers. Whiny people whose only accomplishment is to complain they can't compete against women or men who aren't as white as they suppose themselves to be means they're already lacking in the "winning" department.
Perhaps a funding operation to let them build an island nation somewhere outside US territorial waters would be the accomplishment they can achieve. And after they all sail off to that bland paradise, we can air-drop genetic testing kits to them, so they can then start their own "who is the whitest" competition.
"will now be" was incorrect. The alt-right IS made up of losers. Whiny people whose only accomplishment is to complain they can't compete against women or men who aren't as white as they suppose themselves to be means they're already lacking in the "winning" department.
Perhaps a funding operation to let them build an island nation somewhere outside US territorial waters would be the accomplishment they can achieve. And after they all sail off to that bland paradise, we can air-drop genetic testing kits to them, so they can then start their own "who is the whitest" competition.
2
Who needs North Korea? We will have already destroyed our own country from within while they're still fiddling with centrifuges.
4
Not wearing the robes and masks at least makes them identifiable....I guess the main stream people are waking up to their influence...In Oregon they took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge over a year ago....some of the same far right actors as in Charlottesville....3 Percenters, Oath Keepers, Sovereign Citizens and other anti govt types...People came from all over the US for that...The FBI was smart in getting them....tho a jury let them off in OR...so..
1
I'm kind of hung up on the police response side of this thing. I've attended several anti-Trump and anti-Trump agenda marches here in Philadelphia. People wear whatever they happened to be wearing that day. I don't recall seeing special gear, other than t-shirts with pithy comments, certainly no shields or long guns or torches. It's been my experience Philly cops are pretty laid-back during protests, but I would think torches would present a fire hazard and I believe (correct me Philly cops, if you're reading this) they would step in if demonstrators were openly displaying firearms.
I almost feel sorry for the Tiki-Torch company. Through no fault of their own, their company will be forever tainted by this tangential association with this extreme hate/rage fringe. From these baby storm troopers up to the president, everything these people touch becomes tainted.
Then there's the "fat" and "childless" comment about the young woman murdered by the vehicle driver. I expected them to come up with some line about her being unfortunate collateral damage. The fact that they would be so callous about her death and make a such a personal, totally off-subject attack about her appearance or her maternal status tells one everything one needs to know about these 'boys.'
If their super-groovy gene pool is the only one they think is deserving of legitimate reproduction, then I'd just as soon the 'human' race die out. Sorry, boys, but brutishness does not equal sexual attractiveness.
I almost feel sorry for the Tiki-Torch company. Through no fault of their own, their company will be forever tainted by this tangential association with this extreme hate/rage fringe. From these baby storm troopers up to the president, everything these people touch becomes tainted.
Then there's the "fat" and "childless" comment about the young woman murdered by the vehicle driver. I expected them to come up with some line about her being unfortunate collateral damage. The fact that they would be so callous about her death and make a such a personal, totally off-subject attack about her appearance or her maternal status tells one everything one needs to know about these 'boys.'
If their super-groovy gene pool is the only one they think is deserving of legitimate reproduction, then I'd just as soon the 'human' race die out. Sorry, boys, but brutishness does not equal sexual attractiveness.
3
Yes, and they are confident of success because the president of these United States has their backs.
It cannot be over-emphasized enough that the president's initial response on Saturday last to the violence in Virginia was to deliberately avoid calling out the white supremacist movement--root and branch--as he addressed a nation further ripped apart by race. These separatists also know full well that the president's remarks yesterday, in which he named the malefactors, was naught more than cover for them. It was "wink wink, nudge nudge." It's all a code for "I had to say it but you know I don't (and didn't) mean it."
Donald Trump is well aware of the optics here and so are his people, his "base," as he so fondly describes them. But also giving impetus to their evil is the silence on the hard right. Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader, has been mouse-quiet in (rather surprising) contrast with Paul Ryan, the House Speaker. Even Orrin Hatch, John McCain, Lindsay Graham and (God forbid!) Ted Cruz.
The coming race war, so long promised by the heretofore "fringe," is now about to become fully-blown. I never thought I'd live to see the day when police back down from protesters like they did on Saturday, a full retreat. Or did I miss something?
The secessionist forces completely outfoxed the Charlottesville cops and Virginia state troopers on Saturday. Speaking metaphorically, they brought a knife to a gunfight.
It cannot be over-emphasized enough that the president's initial response on Saturday last to the violence in Virginia was to deliberately avoid calling out the white supremacist movement--root and branch--as he addressed a nation further ripped apart by race. These separatists also know full well that the president's remarks yesterday, in which he named the malefactors, was naught more than cover for them. It was "wink wink, nudge nudge." It's all a code for "I had to say it but you know I don't (and didn't) mean it."
Donald Trump is well aware of the optics here and so are his people, his "base," as he so fondly describes them. But also giving impetus to their evil is the silence on the hard right. Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority Leader, has been mouse-quiet in (rather surprising) contrast with Paul Ryan, the House Speaker. Even Orrin Hatch, John McCain, Lindsay Graham and (God forbid!) Ted Cruz.
The coming race war, so long promised by the heretofore "fringe," is now about to become fully-blown. I never thought I'd live to see the day when police back down from protesters like they did on Saturday, a full retreat. Or did I miss something?
The secessionist forces completely outfoxed the Charlottesville cops and Virginia state troopers on Saturday. Speaking metaphorically, they brought a knife to a gunfight.
6
What we witnessed in Dallas and Charlottesville was illegal from the git-go. Yes, from all sides. Because the Constitution does not grant any right to march/rally, only _peaceable_assembly_.
Cities need to work with the Feds on an urgent basis, take proactive steps to ban marches outright, additionally specify where and how peaceable assembly is allowed. Preferably inside stadiums, with tickets issued online, well in advance of assembly, scheduled start and end times, organized entry and exits, picture IDs, security checks. Live stream and sponsorship optional.
You wanna protest? Go ahead, assemble peaceably, shake it up, twist and shout. Let's kick this stuff into the 21st century.
Cities need to work with the Feds on an urgent basis, take proactive steps to ban marches outright, additionally specify where and how peaceable assembly is allowed. Preferably inside stadiums, with tickets issued online, well in advance of assembly, scheduled start and end times, organized entry and exits, picture IDs, security checks. Live stream and sponsorship optional.
You wanna protest? Go ahead, assemble peaceably, shake it up, twist and shout. Let's kick this stuff into the 21st century.
3
White homeland in america? Wait a minute bud, if it's anyone's homeland, it is the native american indians as white people destroyed that culture and forced them off their land. Please, any white nationalist out there care to explain why America should be a white homeland when it originally was populated by native americans?
6
The only people who are entitled to claim North America as their racial homeland are American Indians / Native Americans / First Nations.
If we white people want a white homeland, we'll have to return to Europe, where our pale ancestors came from. If we stay here, we have to share with all the other people whose ancestors originated elsewhere.
If we white people want a white homeland, we'll have to return to Europe, where our pale ancestors came from. If we stay here, we have to share with all the other people whose ancestors originated elsewhere.
3
No wonder -- only 6 of 52 Republican senators denounced white nationalism or white supremacy at Virginia rally.
6
Regarding "If you are White,there is nothing wrong in being pro White and proud of it. This does not mean you are a racist.", all of the white supremacists quoted in this article are racist.
Yes, anyone who endorses racial segregation is racist.
Yes, anyone who endorses racial segregation is racist.
3
Ditto anyone who brands an entire race of humanity as inferior.
How can you say that you are going to have a peaceful demonstration when your white separatists adherents show up with shields and body armor? Unbelievable. Their applications to demonstrate should have been refused.
6
Of course they are all enthusiastic about the results of their rally. They managed to murder one innocent woman and get the President of the United States to give them the OK signal with winks and nods. They are on a roll and must be stopped. (Not incidentally, "splits" in their ranks are meaningless. Those who don't want to use "explicit Nazi" flags are simply waving fascist symbols of their own design.)
2
These far right groups have become more energized since the election of President Trump. They have always been in existence but became more confident and stronger once there was new leadership in the White House. They wanted to finally have a voice that had become lost under the previous administration. They had witnessed movements like Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter and did not like the progressive turn our country was taking. It was being controlled by leftists who wanted to take control of our country.
This leftward shift was upsetting for them so they wanted to form groups to counteract this progression. There were like-minded folks who wanted to see a more conservative society and less liberal policies that had formed under the Obama administration. They wanted to take our country back from those who were moving it a progressive direction. They were disillusioned by both political parties until Mr. Trump came along. They liked his message of controlled borders and immigration and the America first policies. They wanted to make America great again. They wanted their country back.
This leftward shift was upsetting for them so they wanted to form groups to counteract this progression. There were like-minded folks who wanted to see a more conservative society and less liberal policies that had formed under the Obama administration. They wanted to take our country back from those who were moving it a progressive direction. They were disillusioned by both political parties until Mr. Trump came along. They liked his message of controlled borders and immigration and the America first policies. They wanted to make America great again. They wanted their country back.
1
Seeing these people espousing lies about race, lies about themselves, surrounded by cameras and microphones makes me queasy.
6
There are now plenty of places that are discussing removing statues of Confederate figures. They purposely chose Charlottesville because it has a Jewish mayor and an outspoken black deputy mayor, because it's the home of an elite (hence, progressive) university, and because it's accessible to D.C. and other liberal enclaves. In other words, they did this specifically to provoke exactly what happened, an out-of-control confrontation.
5
I see nothing for conservatives to celebrate. Trump's words may change day-to-day, but his ignorance of his job will always be with him.........
6
As satisfying as it will be to see Trump ousted from the White House in 2020, one shudders to think of the havoc that millions of his angry, armed ciphers will bring to our streets. We must face the frightening prospect that Charlotte is only a microcosm of the maelstrom to come.
And there are millions of us. Stop being afraid and get angry.
2
What is scary is if these groups are incrementalists. To what extent are they probing the social and legal boundaries for weaknesses to find out what works, what doesn't, to see how far they can go, what they can get away with before societal forces push back.
Trump has done exactly this since elected. Flaunting all the rules of norms and convention governing nepotism, decorum, emoluments for self enrichment, finger pointing, time spent working on legislation, etc. And it is obvious he will keep disregarding these conventions until the GOP finally has enough and stops him. So far they haven't. And his presidency has taken on the momentum of a runaway train on a downhill slope.
Same with these white supremacists if authorities continue to allow them to come to these protests armed for violence.
Trump has done exactly this since elected. Flaunting all the rules of norms and convention governing nepotism, decorum, emoluments for self enrichment, finger pointing, time spent working on legislation, etc. And it is obvious he will keep disregarding these conventions until the GOP finally has enough and stops him. So far they haven't. And his presidency has taken on the momentum of a runaway train on a downhill slope.
Same with these white supremacists if authorities continue to allow them to come to these protests armed for violence.
135
These sick weirdos are just that and they will never gain enough support or momentum to be anything but an annoyance. They are a haven for social outcasts and fools. To try a draw a line between these morons and Donald Trump is an utter fabrication, but knock yourself out. A clod in many ways, he is not the author of these kinds of activities.
Why couldn't a possible solution to the violence be for cities, in the permits they issue for these types of event, to include in those permits legally binding language that expressly forbids carrying firearms, knives, bats, shields, torches, etc plus the wearing of helmets, face coverings, flak jackets, body armor, brass knuckles... you get the point.
Seems like a sharp legal team could come up with some boiler plate rules that would not deny protestors their rights to peacefully express themselves. Language that is legal in all states. Something local permitting authorities could download from online source.
That way the local population would have at least some basic guarantee that protestors coming into their city would be limited in accessorizing or enhancing any capability for violence. It would also allow police to employ the "stop and frisk" policy to identify and remove such items, or to turn away individuals who didn't get that memo. From what I've heard, the extreme right has been very supportive of stop and frisk measures.
Seems like a sharp legal team could come up with some boiler plate rules that would not deny protestors their rights to peacefully express themselves. Language that is legal in all states. Something local permitting authorities could download from online source.
That way the local population would have at least some basic guarantee that protestors coming into their city would be limited in accessorizing or enhancing any capability for violence. It would also allow police to employ the "stop and frisk" policy to identify and remove such items, or to turn away individuals who didn't get that memo. From what I've heard, the extreme right has been very supportive of stop and frisk measures.
7
It sounds like you're promoting nude protest.
Let's see if there is a strong correlation between sites the fascists want to hold rallies in, and states that have open carry for firearms. Hate is always more effective at the point of a gun.
34
"On Monday night, officials at Texas A&M announced that they were canceling Mr. Wiginton’s event. But he pushed back, saying he would fight the university in court. “It seems like the First Amendment doesn’t apply to white people,” he said."
This is the essence of the lie. Blame it on discrimination against being white rather than a rebuke of the corrosive message of white supremacists who seek to discriminate against anyone "non white".
Make no mistake. Racists of any background are essentially self hating cowards who deeply believe in their own inferiority and fear that without bullying, lying and domination they themselves cannot survive.
They can dress themselves up and play act that they are rational and "civilized" as does Spencer, and his fellow travelers, but no one who believes that race determines some innate superiority is even remotely mentally, emotionally, or spiritually healthy. They are a sickness, a cancerous growth.
Trump may be loath to distance himself from White Supremacists because he thinks that he can use them to his advantage and perhaps because he acknowledges that they are a cornerstone to his ascension to the Oval Office, but that is a measure of Trump's own mental, emotional, and spiritual sickness.
This is the essence of the lie. Blame it on discrimination against being white rather than a rebuke of the corrosive message of white supremacists who seek to discriminate against anyone "non white".
Make no mistake. Racists of any background are essentially self hating cowards who deeply believe in their own inferiority and fear that without bullying, lying and domination they themselves cannot survive.
They can dress themselves up and play act that they are rational and "civilized" as does Spencer, and his fellow travelers, but no one who believes that race determines some innate superiority is even remotely mentally, emotionally, or spiritually healthy. They are a sickness, a cancerous growth.
Trump may be loath to distance himself from White Supremacists because he thinks that he can use them to his advantage and perhaps because he acknowledges that they are a cornerstone to his ascension to the Oval Office, but that is a measure of Trump's own mental, emotional, and spiritual sickness.
31
Let's defend the First Amendment, too. It gives me the right to express my opinion without interference from the government. It does not give me the right to use any forum I want to do so. It also gives everyone else, except the government, the right to insist that I shut up.
4
All of this was foreseeable to anyone who cared about basic human decency or our democracy.
Trump was the most prominent Birther, which was clearly racist. He kicked off his campaign calling Mexicans racists. He incited his crowds to violence. He consistently showed a lack of decency and shame, rising to power at any cost. And why is Putin the only person he won't insult?
Trump is one sick man. I blame the people who voted for him. As a liberal, I have made zero progress "understanding" the Trump voters.
Trump was the most prominent Birther, which was clearly racist. He kicked off his campaign calling Mexicans racists. He incited his crowds to violence. He consistently showed a lack of decency and shame, rising to power at any cost. And why is Putin the only person he won't insult?
Trump is one sick man. I blame the people who voted for him. As a liberal, I have made zero progress "understanding" the Trump voters.
39
Or maybe you dont want to understand, you just want to play the blame game?
2
it's all Trump's fault. and Putin's. why do those suffering from white privelidge not understand.
Not only is he "sick" he is ignorant and petulant far worse.
How can any country tolerate "separatists"? These people commit treason against the Union.
5
So would you include Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam in your definition of treasonous groups for advocating black separatism?
2
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.” - HRC
She called it then and it's 100% true now. And instead of affirmation, she was strongly criticized. Can we please call them deplorables publicly now?
She called it then and it's 100% true now. And instead of affirmation, she was strongly criticized. Can we please call them deplorables publicly now?
132
Go right ahead and call them whatever you like. It won't work any better for you than it did for Hillary.
3
You're free to call them that but it cost HRC the Presidency, you want an additional 4 years for current POTUS? I don't. The name calling on both sides diminishes both sides of the argument. The left was calling the right, uneducated, stupid you name it doesn't further their cause it strengthens the right.
2
It also did not help, previously, when Obama commented on how they "cling to their religion and their guns"
Hillary's comment fell in the "same basket", if you will
Also true, then and now:
"You're likeable enough, Hillary"
Hillary's comment fell in the "same basket", if you will
Also true, then and now:
"You're likeable enough, Hillary"
1
This all has very strong echoes of Germany in the 1930's. But America is not Germany (thank God) and as the United States is made up almost entirely of immigrants there is little chance that the attention-seeking far-right hate groups will get very far. However, also unlike Germany in the 30's we must actively stamp out those who preach hate and violence and that should come from the very top of the executive branch of our government.
The first amendment protects free speech but the supreme court has repeatedly stated that those wishing to incite violence are outside of the first amendment. Unfortunately that same supreme court protects the rights of those offering hate speech. Which is why, again, we must have strong leadership that reflects the values on which the country was founded.
The first amendment protects free speech but the supreme court has repeatedly stated that those wishing to incite violence are outside of the first amendment. Unfortunately that same supreme court protects the rights of those offering hate speech. Which is why, again, we must have strong leadership that reflects the values on which the country was founded.
7
While I'd like to be as optimistic as you vis-a-vis our distinction from Germany, please remember that the Nazi party received only 1/3 of the vote in 1933, and that Hitler and his thugs leveraged that with violence and racism (including the covert anti-Semitism and ultra-nationalism of many of the German people) to take over the country, prosecute the Holocaust, and foment WWII.
When this right-wing scum marches with semi-automatic weapons through the streets inviting and promising violence, they are yelling "Fire in a crowded theatre," and they will have forfeited their 1st Amendment right to demonstrate.
Trump can help us all by denouncing the not only the groups and their leaders by name, but by renouncing any of their support. Wait and see.
When this right-wing scum marches with semi-automatic weapons through the streets inviting and promising violence, they are yelling "Fire in a crowded theatre," and they will have forfeited their 1st Amendment right to demonstrate.
Trump can help us all by denouncing the not only the groups and their leaders by name, but by renouncing any of their support. Wait and see.
1
I wonder if readers of the Times are aware of who appears on the t-shirt worn by Matthew Heimbach -- described in the caption of the second image in the article -- as a founder of the American Nationalist Front. Corneliu Codreanu was a Romanian politician who founded the Iron Guard, an ultra-nationalistic and violently antisemitic group in the 1930s. He died in 1938 before World War II. But apparently he has been added to Hitler and others who are idols of the today's white supremacists. Unbelievable!
31
Romania was allied with Hitler during WWII and sent troops to fight with Germany on the Eastern Front.
1
The 1st Amendment provides for freedom of speech and expression of ideas. It does not provide for inciting to riot. The neo-fascist far rights exemplified by those calling for racial purity, are seeking the ultimate destruction of rights of those who are not meeting their geneological purity standard, and in pursuing this goal of racial purity, they are seeking to remove Constitutional rights of others.
The Sedition act of 1787 was removed, but today, with the historical lessons of Nazi Germany and how today's Germany remains a strong and vibrant democracy while controlling those who would re-instated fascism, the USA needs a discussion about how to deal with any group that is advocating the destruction of our basic pillars - political or religious.
The Sedition act of 1787 was removed, but today, with the historical lessons of Nazi Germany and how today's Germany remains a strong and vibrant democracy while controlling those who would re-instated fascism, the USA needs a discussion about how to deal with any group that is advocating the destruction of our basic pillars - political or religious.
8
As an active alumni of UVA I chose to stay home in Durham last weekend because I heeded the advice of the Charlottesville mayor, University officials and others to stay away.
I'm glad I did in one respect given the violence that the Virginia State and Charlottesville police did nothing about, other than simply watch, on Friday night and Saturday morning, until mayhem ensued.
And also given that the W appointed federal judge sitting in Roanoke decided in his wisdom to rule against the request of Charlottesville officials to limit demonstrations to a large city park in the city away from downtown where the two sides could be kept apart, rather than in the downtown park where doing so was next to impossible, as the City argued unsuccessfully before the judge.
The judge set the fuse and the racists lit it.
But I regret not going in another respect to support the peaceful counter demonstrators.
My niece, a current UVA grad student whose father and grandparents are Jewish, was among the peaceful counter demonstraters and thankfully not physically hurt.
She will have life long emotional scars however seeing racial hate in action by neo Nazis and other anti Semitic groups beating up people on the streets of Charlottesville with impunity due to police inaction. Her hurt was compounded by seeing the President nonplussed about it all.
If Spencer and his racist thugs come back to Charlottesville I'll certainly be there and I think thousands of others of like me will be too.
I'm glad I did in one respect given the violence that the Virginia State and Charlottesville police did nothing about, other than simply watch, on Friday night and Saturday morning, until mayhem ensued.
And also given that the W appointed federal judge sitting in Roanoke decided in his wisdom to rule against the request of Charlottesville officials to limit demonstrations to a large city park in the city away from downtown where the two sides could be kept apart, rather than in the downtown park where doing so was next to impossible, as the City argued unsuccessfully before the judge.
The judge set the fuse and the racists lit it.
But I regret not going in another respect to support the peaceful counter demonstrators.
My niece, a current UVA grad student whose father and grandparents are Jewish, was among the peaceful counter demonstraters and thankfully not physically hurt.
She will have life long emotional scars however seeing racial hate in action by neo Nazis and other anti Semitic groups beating up people on the streets of Charlottesville with impunity due to police inaction. Her hurt was compounded by seeing the President nonplussed about it all.
If Spencer and his racist thugs come back to Charlottesville I'll certainly be there and I think thousands of others of like me will be too.
32
@ winthropo muchado
This is the awakening across all lines in America, racial, political, generational that was required. The purveyors of hate and racial superiority are far greater in number and more present in all social and economic groups, than most people thought, but not anymore. Let's hope that decent Americans in overwhelming numbers are "woke up" . If they aren't, your country is in peril.
This is the awakening across all lines in America, racial, political, generational that was required. The purveyors of hate and racial superiority are far greater in number and more present in all social and economic groups, than most people thought, but not anymore. Let's hope that decent Americans in overwhelming numbers are "woke up" . If they aren't, your country is in peril.
One action the average individual can take to counter the actions and speech of these people is to call them what they are: Nazis. The ambiguous and even fussy language we're becoming accustomed to, e.g., "white supremacy," "white nationalists," and "alt-right," only dilutes the ideology and bigotry of these people and their views.
18
You make a good point, but in fact "Nazi" is not altogether accurate. This term refers to the now defunct political organization that held sway in Germany from 1920 till 1945. Trying to describe the present-day American white racist in a word or two is challenging, just as it is challenging to describe the loathsomeness of Donald Trump without resorting to a long list of pejoratives!
Nazi is a contraction of National Socialist German Workers' Party, an organization which ceased to exist in 1945. So to call them Nazis is not to call them what they are. One can claim they share an ideology with the Nazis, but that is a far as one can go and still be correct.
Absolutely 1000% correct. They are Nazis -- pure and simple.
A lot of naïve Americans continue to support anyone who calls themselves "conservative." It is clear that many of these people cannot be called "conservative" by any legitimate definition of the term. There is nothing conservative about extremism! The Republican party needs to expel from their party those who espouse hateful racist and authoritarian ideology.
14
We combat this with overwhelming numbers. ( not force )
If they organize , we organize more.
If they march, then we march with more.
If they run for office, then we combat their ideas with better ones.
If they preach division , then we offer inclusion at every turn.
Their speech may be costly, but ours is free and plentiful.
We will win,
If they organize , we organize more.
If they march, then we march with more.
If they run for office, then we combat their ideas with better ones.
If they preach division , then we offer inclusion at every turn.
Their speech may be costly, but ours is free and plentiful.
We will win,
25
@ FunkyIrishman
There is no other way to actually win. MLK showed his country the way and made positive change with this approach. There is no other way to achieve the peace required for your nation to move on. The rest of the world wishes you the best, the prize is their right in front of you, don't take your eyes off of it.
There is no other way to actually win. MLK showed his country the way and made positive change with this approach. There is no other way to achieve the peace required for your nation to move on. The rest of the world wishes you the best, the prize is their right in front of you, don't take your eyes off of it.
Confederate leaders are not part of any "white heritage." Slavery and secession and the denial of basic constitutional protections through the violent oppression of dissenters are not what I claim as white heritage. These Confederate leaders don't represent any white people outside of those who supported slavery. The white Americans in the South who did not agree with slavery were beaten and raped and burned out of their homes. So these Confederate leaders do not represent white people as a whole. They only represent the white Americans who supported slavery and violated the constitutional protections of dissenters against slavery, which makes them un-American by definition and not a part of any American heritage.
11
Publicly expressing hate and advocating the denigration of a race, a gender, or an ethnic group is not a movement. It is a crime. Freedom of speech is not unbounded. No one has the freedom to advocate violence against or repression of another person or group. When these hate groups cry foul because no one wants to listen to their message of one type of person being superior de facto over another, authorities should deny them access to public expression as one would the Crips or the Bloods. Ask yourself what might happen if advocates of ISIS ideology petitioned to speak at Berkeley.
6
People don't stop being fascists just because they don't march in public. Isn't if safer for everyone to actually see an enemy rather than leave it lurking in the dark? The truth shall set you free, is an old saying. Rights are for everyone, those that which to deny the same to others becomes just like them.
1
Now here's a scary question. Do you think Trump would support and endorse more subtle far-right candidates?
Personally, I think he would and will.
What would our Congress look like and what legislation would be passed if far right groups (and ultra conservatives) were the majority?
Frankly, I think Pence is far right in his own way. His focus and prejudice is not necessarily based on skin color but rather religious beliefs, sexual orientation, and women.
Personally, I think he would and will.
What would our Congress look like and what legislation would be passed if far right groups (and ultra conservatives) were the majority?
Frankly, I think Pence is far right in his own way. His focus and prejudice is not necessarily based on skin color but rather religious beliefs, sexual orientation, and women.
17
Sessions? And he's not particularly subtle.
"The far right, which has returned to prominence in the past year or so..."
Hmm, I wonder how that happened. Thanks, Trump.
Hmm, I wonder how that happened. Thanks, Trump.
6
These delusional cowards actually believe they are the vanguard of a mass movement.
In the early 1980s, the KKK started patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border to keep out undocumented immigrants. They thought locals would join their cause. Instead, they just made a spectacle of themselves parading around in their ridiculous outfits.
Time had even so long ago had passed them by.
The same is true today.
We have losers deathly afraid of the multicultural and multiethnic America that is steadily emerging. Deep down they know that in 20 to 30 years the U.S. will no longer be a majority white nation.
Their protests and clinging to lost causes can't stop it.
Ignore them.
They won't go into minority neighborhoods or invade anyone's homes.
Ignored, they will do what they've been doing, meeting and tramping about in anonymity.
They crave news coverage because it makes them believe they are an actual political force. They are nothing.
In the early 1980s, the KKK started patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border to keep out undocumented immigrants. They thought locals would join their cause. Instead, they just made a spectacle of themselves parading around in their ridiculous outfits.
Time had even so long ago had passed them by.
The same is true today.
We have losers deathly afraid of the multicultural and multiethnic America that is steadily emerging. Deep down they know that in 20 to 30 years the U.S. will no longer be a majority white nation.
Their protests and clinging to lost causes can't stop it.
Ignore them.
They won't go into minority neighborhoods or invade anyone's homes.
Ignored, they will do what they've been doing, meeting and tramping about in anonymity.
They crave news coverage because it makes them believe they are an actual political force. They are nothing.
20
Thanks to Trump and Steve Bannon, the alt-Right is now mainstream. This is the heart of the movement that Trump is so proud of. To get a handle on what's happening and to prevent further embarrassment to our country, the Republican Party has to strongly condemn Trump as not being one of them. He and his followers must be isolated and exposed for what they are or the Republican Party as we know it is doomed and American values are at risk of disappearing.
4
The alt-Right clearly got the message from Trump. He favors and will protect them. His scripted, robotic statement on Monday has been utterly dismissed by the neo-Nazis and white supremacists, as having been "forced" on Trump by "the press," "the Democrats," "the RINOs" and anyone else they can think of who opposes them.
Trump has unleashed the dragons of civil war in the United States, and is doing nothing to contain them.
Trump has unleashed the dragons of civil war in the United States, and is doing nothing to contain them.
11
Why are terrorist groups allowed to assemble in the US? This isn't freedom of speech; it's terrorism.
11
These are nothing but home grown terrorists and they should be treated as such. Our government should arrest them BEFORE they injure any innocent people or are destructive to any property. They belong to an organization and that organization needs to be wiped out.
They've proved what they will do if people get in their way. Our country cannot let them take take root all over the country with their "white-supremacy" nonsense. They are nothing but loser terrorists who are no better than ISIS hiding behind religion to promote their lies using terrorist tactics to achieve their goals.
They've proved what they will do if people get in their way. Our country cannot let them take take root all over the country with their "white-supremacy" nonsense. They are nothing but loser terrorists who are no better than ISIS hiding behind religion to promote their lies using terrorist tactics to achieve their goals.
5
Make no mistake - they are making war on our cities and towns.
It has nothing to do with free speech. They come armed for battle.
There is no way that batons, shields, helmets and pepper spray are speech.
RaHoWa is their cry - Racial Holy War
They are traitors to America.
It has nothing to do with free speech. They come armed for battle.
There is no way that batons, shields, helmets and pepper spray are speech.
RaHoWa is their cry - Racial Holy War
They are traitors to America.
41
It's not surprising that these organizations have trouble connecting with each other or staying together. Irrational hate, fabricated grievances about "the others", and claims that the Jews (only 3% of the country) or blacks (12%) could somehow be keeping the rest of us down, just don't lend themselves to a cohesive or justifiable platform.
That they have to yell and scream to get others to hear them, only shows further the weakness of the message.
But when some people aren't getting their way, they ratchet up the rhetoric and anger (we even have a President who does the same); "losers with nothing left to lose", per Mr. Cernovich. We can expect them to show up more often, become more violent, and enjoy more deaths of those who they've chosen as enemies. "Every city needs to watch out..." per the Nationalist Front.
The few Muslims who are doing the same things, hating all the rest of us, inventing their own realities of right vs wrong, and threatening violence and elimination of everyone different than themselves, are labeled terrorist organizations and are pursued by law enforcement and national security. The Jewish Defense League and Black Panthers were viewed the same way. These white people who are doing the same things, need to be viewed and dealt with the same. They need to be identified as terrorist organizations, and investigated and charged, just as with ISIS or al-Qaeda.
Our laws against hate-mongering and inciting violence need to be enforced.
That they have to yell and scream to get others to hear them, only shows further the weakness of the message.
But when some people aren't getting their way, they ratchet up the rhetoric and anger (we even have a President who does the same); "losers with nothing left to lose", per Mr. Cernovich. We can expect them to show up more often, become more violent, and enjoy more deaths of those who they've chosen as enemies. "Every city needs to watch out..." per the Nationalist Front.
The few Muslims who are doing the same things, hating all the rest of us, inventing their own realities of right vs wrong, and threatening violence and elimination of everyone different than themselves, are labeled terrorist organizations and are pursued by law enforcement and national security. The Jewish Defense League and Black Panthers were viewed the same way. These white people who are doing the same things, need to be viewed and dealt with the same. They need to be identified as terrorist organizations, and investigated and charged, just as with ISIS or al-Qaeda.
Our laws against hate-mongering and inciting violence need to be enforced.
201
Hate mongering should be protected speech. It's only offensive, and as Mill argued, doesn't rise to the level of an infringement of rights. You can't compare white supremacists to ISIS. They aren't capturing and beheading anyone. They don't have a genocidal mandate. Modern white nationalists are a hodge podge, but they are mainly reacting to just the sort of totalitarianism you're voicing. Opinions cannot be grounds for legal punishments.
All of us can do our part and contribute to identifying these white supremacists. Many of us have friends or family, or friends of friends, on Facebook who post extreme racist and anti-semitic views. Send a screen shot to their employers. Pass it on to their families. Shame them. If you are silent and do nothing, you help keep the far right in power.
1
If you are White,there is nothing wrong in being pro White and proud of it. This does not mean you are a racist.
4
of course not
if you need to reinforce self pride with batons, shield, helmets, etc we have a problem
if you need to reinforce self pride with batons, shield, helmets, etc we have a problem
10
Actually, it does. You can be proud to be Irish-American or even proud to be European-American. But being "proud of being white" doesn't mean anything outside of a racialist context.
4
It's a lot more than that! Defending the indefensible!
1
Setting their sights on "bigger prizes", huh? I guess nazis driving their hot rods through a big crowd and murdering a young woman weren't big enough. These criminals came with express purpose of causing mayhem and that is exactly what happened. Those actions are NOT protected under the 1st amendment and they should have been immediately arrested. And where were the police during this event? Why weren't the two groups separated?
50
Why is the nazi flag and other paraphernalia allowed to be shown in public, i thought that the first amendment did not apply when inciting violence and these images certainly do that.
The Germans who birthed nazism have laws in place that provide up to 3 years in prison for publicly showing the above items.
The Germans learned a very hard lesson...but learn they did, there should be a line drawn between free speech and free speech condoning hate.
Hopefully the United States takes a similar line.
The Germans who birthed nazism have laws in place that provide up to 3 years in prison for publicly showing the above items.
The Germans learned a very hard lesson...but learn they did, there should be a line drawn between free speech and free speech condoning hate.
Hopefully the United States takes a similar line.
78
I'm jealous and lost several dozen of my extended family in Bellorussia and I couldn't disagree more. Free speech is an absolute right and cannot be selectively applied, which is why the ACLU went to court to help these creeps get their park for their (ridiculous) tikitorch parade or whatever it was.
If you ban the swastika, that would include peole who are using it ironically to demean it, not to mention making it very hard for audiences to figure out what's going on during revivals of The Sound of Music.
If you ban the swastika, that would include peole who are using it ironically to demean it, not to mention making it very hard for audiences to figure out what's going on during revivals of The Sound of Music.
Jewish, not jealous! (Autocorrect, not a freudian slip. I think.)
Inciting violence refers to explicitly advocating violence, not in the display of images that some may find offensive enough (or appealing enough) to lead them to violent acts.
1
I'm about as white as they come (you should see my legs), and I am from the south. I reject "white supremacy" as destructive to our nation and reflective of nothing more than primate tribalism, a pernicious leftover of evolution. Statements like "genociding our people" rank so high up the stupidity scale as to be cartoonish. The variety of our citizenship is a super power for America. The racists and haters are more dangerous to this magnificent American experiment than Kim Jong Un and Putin combined.
70
Hey Mr. Spencer, why return to Charlottesville for another rally? Been there done that. You need to move on and I suggest a bigger venue for your terrific ideas! SO— I'd like to invite you here to New York City on behalf of all the 8.538 million residents. I mean if you really are convinced this is where the country is heading, than heck, it's time you brought your show to the big time. March right down 5th Ave! I know it's not perfect here (NYC white pop is only 40%), but it's a great place to tell 5 million non-white immigrants to get out of town! I promise they'll all line the streets to welcome you anyway. No doubt even 90% of the delusional white folks here will join them. The roar of the crowd will be unbelievable so make sure you bring all your friends (as many as you can please!). You say "Every city needs to watch out". Ok were watching AND waiting! As the song says, "if you can make it here you can make it anywhere". So please come and try to make it here. We'll plan that huge welcome party for you. I promise.
218
Perfect!
This problem is going tp persist as long as Trump is in the White House. His campaign motto "make America great again" is really a euphemism for "make America hate again". Surrounding himself with ilk like Steve Bannon and KellyAnne Conway Trump is removing the thin veneer of decency in America. Notice there has been very little condemnation from the Evangelicals and the Roman Catholic Bishops aligned with them. They have joined with trump and created an alliance of hate. The far right, the Nazi's and the white power types are merely their foot soldiers. The Mayor of Charlottesville should begin a national campaign to combat the ugliness. No one else has.
63
Who would ever have dreamed that Trump could make America so much LESS great -- and in only 6 months!
Very good comments, but per your last line ("No one else has") you should check out refusefascism.org, which has a fairly similar understanding of things ... and a plan.
Let's call these current events what they are: Civil War, Century 21.
The best way to eliminate these anti-American white supremacists is at the polls.
If you're a registered voter and you don't get off your butt and vote against this movement, then you're part of the problem.
November 6, 2018 is coming. That would be a good start...
The best way to eliminate these anti-American white supremacists is at the polls.
If you're a registered voter and you don't get off your butt and vote against this movement, then you're part of the problem.
November 6, 2018 is coming. That would be a good start...
61
The confederate flag and monuments to it are symbols of rebels who fought against the ideals that The United States of America was built upon: That All men are created equal, with certain inalienable rights: of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Those rebels lost in a bloody war over 150 years ago. Why should our state governments fly the flag of these defeated foes who fought to deny Americans of their freedom. Shameful.
18
Personally, as citizen and taxpayer, I think the following statement by Mosley (an organizer for a white separatist group, is every bit as frightening and threatening as any statement made by extreme Islamic clerics or ISIS leaders. In fact it's worse because Mosley lives right here in the US.
"Every city needs to watch out,” Mr. Mosley said. “We are everywhere.”
"Every city needs to watch out,” Mr. Mosley said. “We are everywhere.”
39
Just had to check Wikipedia and see if Mosley is in any way related to Oswald Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists in the 1930s. But it appears to be only a coincidence in name.
If Charlottesville has not made abundantly clear what the far right is and what its adherents want, look at the picture of Matthew Heimbach, then read the Wikipedia article on Corneliu Codreanu. Donald Trump has been dancing with the Devil for years; it hardly matters whether from ignorance, indifference or actual malice. These people are not deplorable, they are dangerous.
The President's halting, tepid and late denunciation is correctly seen on all sides as encouragement of a movement that, historically, ends in pogroms and concentration camps. I am not suggesting that 2017 America is 1930's Romania, Germany or Italy, but ideas have power. The far right's ideas are manifestly gathering steam. The Times is right to expose and continue exposing them.
The President's halting, tepid and late denunciation is correctly seen on all sides as encouragement of a movement that, historically, ends in pogroms and concentration camps. I am not suggesting that 2017 America is 1930's Romania, Germany or Italy, but ideas have power. The far right's ideas are manifestly gathering steam. The Times is right to expose and continue exposing them.
33
Any time the economy stagnates for the middle class, the white racists erupt. Unfortunately the racist don't understand that brown people aren't holding them back. Wealth and income inequality is. One percent of the American population hold more wealth than the bottom ninety nine percent.
Donald Trump promised a huge infrastructure plan during his dog whistle campaign. We are more than seven months into his term, and we haven't seen one thing that Trump himself proposes to start. You see, infrastructure projects, healthcare reform, and narcotic treatment for the addicted are things Trump promised his gullible and desperate voters. All of these projects will take increased tax revenue. If Donald Trump was listening, and he wasn't, Republicans in government today spent all of their time since Reagan complaining that the rich are taxed enough. This Republican congress will not get anything done if they continue the lie that "job creators are taxed enough".
The bottom line is nothing legislatively will be done of the big promises Trump lied to his supporters he would deliver. He is not good at making deals. He's good at promising big then filing for bankruptcy.
I predicted from the beginning of Trump's campaign for president. The only reason the Republicans supported him was to fill the stolen Supreme Court seat. Then kick the legislative can around for the next three and a half years waiting for another Supreme Court seat opening.
Donald Trump promised a huge infrastructure plan during his dog whistle campaign. We are more than seven months into his term, and we haven't seen one thing that Trump himself proposes to start. You see, infrastructure projects, healthcare reform, and narcotic treatment for the addicted are things Trump promised his gullible and desperate voters. All of these projects will take increased tax revenue. If Donald Trump was listening, and he wasn't, Republicans in government today spent all of their time since Reagan complaining that the rich are taxed enough. This Republican congress will not get anything done if they continue the lie that "job creators are taxed enough".
The bottom line is nothing legislatively will be done of the big promises Trump lied to his supporters he would deliver. He is not good at making deals. He's good at promising big then filing for bankruptcy.
I predicted from the beginning of Trump's campaign for president. The only reason the Republicans supported him was to fill the stolen Supreme Court seat. Then kick the legislative can around for the next three and a half years waiting for another Supreme Court seat opening.
35
We had protesters in our town for days around our various monuments making a spectacle of themselves. There was media coverage but it went largely unnoticed and the local response was muted too. I don't think this was due to our apathy but more to a sensation that there cause was insignificant and to ignore them was like ignoring a misbehaving toddler. There was was minimal violence and they went away in time. Is this the right way to approach these miscreants? They are clearly seeking attention and wanting to create violence and maybe the best response is no response?
9
Or a punch in the face.
2
Are we supposed to be quaking in our boots? Well we're not. We have plans too. We plan to be in their faces at every rally, in every town. So be ready for that.
22
Hard to believe that these groups will ever have broad appeal.
I'm more concerned of them being used as the thin edge of a wedge to erode civil liberties by expanding the definition of terrorism.
I'm more concerned of them being used as the thin edge of a wedge to erode civil liberties by expanding the definition of terrorism.
7
When a group threatens that they are everywhere and people need to be ready, and their history is burning and lynching people, uh, yeah, that's terror - there's no thin edge.
4
You're exactly right, and amongst themselves they admit that their strategy is to force the government to double down on repression, which they believe will hasten their much longed-for social upheaval. What's depressing is how many commenters are playing into their hands by calling for the government to nullify the right to hate speech.
1
Just wait until new laws and procedures are used on other protesting groups, especially if there is an economic downturn.
A significant number of small fringe groups, when added together, can form one large group. These fringe groups also tend to be one issue groups: anti-immigration, white supremacy, pro-life, anti-LBGT, etc.
So from a political perspective, if a candidates advocates the position of a group or simply doesn't condemn the position of a group, these groups are inclined to support that candidate.
Ergo, small, seemingly unrelated groups, can form a political movement. If you're looking for proof, try PRESIDENT Donald Trump.
So from a political perspective, if a candidates advocates the position of a group or simply doesn't condemn the position of a group, these groups are inclined to support that candidate.
Ergo, small, seemingly unrelated groups, can form a political movement. If you're looking for proof, try PRESIDENT Donald Trump.
8
The AltRight clearly consider the weekend of provocation, violence and tragic death at Charlottesville to be a success. This posture will draw fresh recruits to their cause and people like Richard Spencer know it.
The mixture of hate, confrontation, violence and a confident, dedicated leadership will be very attractive to many who have no real purpose in their lives.
The mixture of hate, confrontation, violence and a confident, dedicated leadership will be very attractive to many who have no real purpose in their lives.
10
This is a critically important time to get this right.
Dialog has broken down across the country.
We want fundamentally different Americas.
Right-wing extremists will use Charlottsville
Like a Bunker Hill.
It isn't one (they are the opressors)
But details matter little when fear and hate boil over.
We need leadership.
We know where it won't come from.
Let's hope that from resigning board members
to peaceful protesters in the streets
we can turn this tide of violence and hate
and build an America with true liberty and justice for all.
This is a critical moment.
We've got to get this right..
Dialog has broken down across the country.
We want fundamentally different Americas.
Right-wing extremists will use Charlottsville
Like a Bunker Hill.
It isn't one (they are the opressors)
But details matter little when fear and hate boil over.
We need leadership.
We know where it won't come from.
Let's hope that from resigning board members
to peaceful protesters in the streets
we can turn this tide of violence and hate
and build an America with true liberty and justice for all.
This is a critical moment.
We've got to get this right..
10
“Every city needs to watch out,” Mr. Mosley said. “We are everywhere.”
But obviously they prefer locations in states that allow them to walk in with guns openly and threateningly displayed. Never before have I seen such clear evidence that Virginia made a grave error in passing open carry legislation. We have an election coming up, a time to right this wrong, not just as the governor's level but at the House of Delegates level too.
But obviously they prefer locations in states that allow them to walk in with guns openly and threateningly displayed. Never before have I seen such clear evidence that Virginia made a grave error in passing open carry legislation. We have an election coming up, a time to right this wrong, not just as the governor's level but at the House of Delegates level too.
36
If an alien from another planet visited Earth and reported it's findings back to it's "people", this alien's report would not be believed. How is it possible that one species on one planet can divide itself so? What a waste of the precious gift of a human life to spend it consumed with how we should separate ourselves from one another - and on the basis of skin color of all things! So profoundly absurd.
12
I wish people would start doing the math to find out that there is no such thing and never was something even resembling pure race, ethno separatism, and the like at any time in history.
If we assumed that in every century around 3-4 generations were born of each and every one of us, (for example, my son needed father and mother, they in turn needed twice as many moms and dads, those in turn needed again twice as many...... get it?) then if you go back just 9 centuries, you would have 27 (lets be pessimistic only 3 per century) generations which means 2 to the power of 27 equals more than 134 million male and female HAD TO HAVE sexual intercourse (don't have to be separate distinct individuals, because some could have had babies with more than one male or more than one female) to get EACH and EVERYONE of US to be born. We know that the world population 900 years ago would never allow such a grotesque large number of males and females to have existed.
So, here is the conclusion: We are all brothers and sisters, and each one of us, probably had farmers, workers, policemen, criminals, sailors, soldiers, doctors, preachers, knights in shining armour, kings and queens (probably) and craftsmen in their bloodline. And even if we wanted to deny this fact, the math still is the math.
If we assumed that in every century around 3-4 generations were born of each and every one of us, (for example, my son needed father and mother, they in turn needed twice as many moms and dads, those in turn needed again twice as many...... get it?) then if you go back just 9 centuries, you would have 27 (lets be pessimistic only 3 per century) generations which means 2 to the power of 27 equals more than 134 million male and female HAD TO HAVE sexual intercourse (don't have to be separate distinct individuals, because some could have had babies with more than one male or more than one female) to get EACH and EVERYONE of US to be born. We know that the world population 900 years ago would never allow such a grotesque large number of males and females to have existed.
So, here is the conclusion: We are all brothers and sisters, and each one of us, probably had farmers, workers, policemen, criminals, sailors, soldiers, doctors, preachers, knights in shining armour, kings and queens (probably) and craftsmen in their bloodline. And even if we wanted to deny this fact, the math still is the math.
5
In a bid to demonstrate their dedication and physical toughness, I suggest they begin punching themselves in the face. Repeatedly.
6
Just an aside; "Invictus" was the poem Tim McVeigh recited as his last words before the justice system did it's due diligence with respect to his sorry self. These right wing cranks are expected in a large society, but they certainly set a low bar for entry when it comes to dignity or class.
3
It's so easy to make this go away. Just ignore these guys. What would have happened in Charlottesville if counter-protesters just didn't bother? 500 cranky racists would have walked around with their signs, shouted some slogans, then gone home. For the life of me, I can't see why it's so hard to let people express their views and just shrug them off as stupid.
143
Wrong!
7
Well, it didn't exactly work that well in Germany, did it?
19
A lot more than 500 racists showed up at that rally.
6
You mentioned the Proud Boys, an important and potentially violent group to watch. More insight and exposure of the nationalist Oath Keepers is in order. These are present and former members of law enforcement and the military. The oath they subscribe to and their agenda should be examined. We must ask how deeply they have infiltrated current law enforcement on the federal, state and local levels. And what effect their influence and ideology is having on how police approach their jobs when the violent right takes to the streets. We know from the experience in Germany during the last century that such infiltration by the fascists and Nazis was key in letting street violence occur and promoting fascist movements. Please continue to shed light on these groups.
194
Yes, I thought of this when I read today of at least two examples of law enforcement officers posting mockery and jokes about the murdered woman and the car used in the terrorist attack on their Facebook pages.
3
I appreciate the coverage and commentary The New York Times has done regarding the events in Charlottesville, but I have a qualm with a line in this reporting.
When discussing white nationalists' hopes of growing a grassroots movement, the article mentions that "the group has organized on behalf of disaffected coal miners and those affected by the opioid epidemic." I am confused by the mention of the opioid epidemic because, well:
One) People affected by the opioid epidemic is a pretty broad group of people to refer to. Where do they come from? Why are they doing this?
Two) It's almost suggesting that the opioid epidemic is a specifically white problem. Although studies report that opioid overdoses are more common among white people than black people, and in states that voted for Trump — Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan — it still doesn't singularly exist within those communities and regions.
Three) The stigma of addiction and difficulty getting treatment has a lot of its origins in the War on Drugs that primarily affected black people, and a lot of white nationalists probably subscribe to the narrative that people of color who use drugs deserve time in jail. I guess not when it applies to themselves and their loved ones?
I'd love if the NYT did a piece expanding on this connection, because right now I'm concerned it was just thrown into this article as a way to mention the opioid epidemic — clearly a hot topic.
When discussing white nationalists' hopes of growing a grassroots movement, the article mentions that "the group has organized on behalf of disaffected coal miners and those affected by the opioid epidemic." I am confused by the mention of the opioid epidemic because, well:
One) People affected by the opioid epidemic is a pretty broad group of people to refer to. Where do they come from? Why are they doing this?
Two) It's almost suggesting that the opioid epidemic is a specifically white problem. Although studies report that opioid overdoses are more common among white people than black people, and in states that voted for Trump — Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan — it still doesn't singularly exist within those communities and regions.
Three) The stigma of addiction and difficulty getting treatment has a lot of its origins in the War on Drugs that primarily affected black people, and a lot of white nationalists probably subscribe to the narrative that people of color who use drugs deserve time in jail. I guess not when it applies to themselves and their loved ones?
I'd love if the NYT did a piece expanding on this connection, because right now I'm concerned it was just thrown into this article as a way to mention the opioid epidemic — clearly a hot topic.
28
If religious leaders in this country do not seriously condemn these type of "haters" then it will confirm my belief that religion is all too often party to this type of behavior. I willing to bet that most of these "haters" attend church each week. I have heard very little from priests, pastors and preachers on this matter. I must admit I am not surprised. Also where is the Republican leadership? Silent as usual.
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You are absolutely correct. One would think that groups of churches and other organizations would be placing full-page ads in newspapers all over the country denouncing the KKK. At a minimum, a petition signed by leaders of ALL faiths would be great.
A few republicans have made statements and even criticized Trump's initial response. However, not many.
Thanks for your comment, Ron. Sometimes I feel like I'm out here on a limb by myself.
A few republicans have made statements and even criticized Trump's initial response. However, not many.
Thanks for your comment, Ron. Sometimes I feel like I'm out here on a limb by myself.
Southern white evangelicals used the Bible to justify slavery and Jim Crow. They were vocal opponents of MLK and the Civil Right Movement. The SBC is still dealing with racism today, as the latest controversies show.
There's a reason why black Christians had to create their own churches.
And it's no surprise that Christian churches is still the most segregated institutions in America.
There's a reason why black Christians had to create their own churches.
And it's no surprise that Christian churches is still the most segregated institutions in America.
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How much condemnation will be enough? It seems that a conservative can never say it quite right? Everyone knows this activity is evil and wrong. There is not one real Christian who would not condemn this activity. Liberals do not have a monopoly on decency and love --- actually, most of them don't really exhibit much love.
Look what Trump has unleashed, even if now—belatedly, and under great pressure all around—he is trying to distance himself from white nationalists and neo-fascists. “Every city needs to watch out,” one leader of this movement threatens. “We are everywhere.” In my small southern, conservative city of Pensacola, I joined close to 100 others here on Sunday for a rally for peace and equality for all. So I would remind white nationalists and neo-fascists that we all over also—and we represent the lasting values that have made America great.
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This is tough to read. But the statistic I heard that there were five counter-protesters for every one white supremacist in Charlottesville gives me hope. I also wonder what the parents, siblings and grandparents of these aggrieved white people have to say.
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this is false. There were far more alt-right marchers than counter-protesters. The counter-protesters were vastly out numbered. I salute their bravery.
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"Others...were organizing efforts to preserve white heritage symbols in their home regions."
"White heritage" symbols? Why resort to euphemism? Confederate monuments are symbols of treason and racism, pure and simple. The people who look up to them are traitors.
"White heritage" symbols? Why resort to euphemism? Confederate monuments are symbols of treason and racism, pure and simple. The people who look up to them are traitors.
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And in fact, there is no such thing as "white heritage symbols." I am appalled that the NYT adopts the language, and thus the ideology, of white supremacists, in employing that phrasing without quotation marks. That's exactly how dangerous ideas seep insidiously into mainstream thought. This isn't just euphemism; it's the euphemistic language of new fascists.
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@David Thank you for calling them out as traitors to these United States of America, that they are; as were the Confederate secessionists & their 'revered' generals! Traitors to the Constitution ALL!
Yes, they are treason. Once I tried to explain to a group of recent Vietnamese immigrants (from the South of course) what that *other* American flag was they were seeing. I explained it belonged to the Confederacy, the group that lost our Civil War. They were astonished that the losers' flag was still allowed to be displayed in this country, and after all this time. *Their* South Vietnamese flag was by then illegal to display anywhere as they had ceased to exist as a political entity when North Vietnam took over the country. I couldn't really understand it either.
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As long as we have a Pres. who speaks hate, the extreme right crazies will continue to be emboldened. DT will never change.
We have to decide the kind of country we want to be and vote accordingly. Under his leadership and many of his appointees, we will continue our decline both nationally and internationally.
It's our choice, voters!!!
We have to decide the kind of country we want to be and vote accordingly. Under his leadership and many of his appointees, we will continue our decline both nationally and internationally.
It's our choice, voters!!!
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This comment may be disconnected from the story, but I wonder if anyone has heard a peep from the Christian leaders in the U.S. about this incident? Any public denunciations?
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From what I have read, there was a fair number of clergy present, but I haven't read anything from them since. Several evangelical christian ministers have spoken their usual riff, but I haven't heard anything public from those who would be anti Alt-Right. I would like to. I am sure their parishioners heard plenty on Sunday AM.
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Interestingly, one from a descendant of Robert E. Lee. He is a pastor in NC who denounced the violence and these hate groups; and called for the removal of the statue that was being debated.
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Priests, pastors and preachers are condemning these activities. CNN, the New York Times and other media outlets should provide more coverage of their statements, which are available online.
Unfortunately voices of peace and moderation draw lower ratings than images of violence and endless panel discussions....
Unfortunately voices of peace and moderation draw lower ratings than images of violence and endless panel discussions....
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Richard B. Spencer, you do not speak for me. I'm white and anthropologists have traced my roots back to Africa. Where we all started. To disavow that is to disavow science and I am a man of science. You must be the other type of person. You believe in fantasies - fantasies like white supremacy.
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Texas A @ M has cancelled their "march". Spencer is not as powerful as he seems to think.
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Address the fear behind the fascist politics. It's easy for the liberals to demonize the white nationalists, but this only helps them by discrediting liberals as equally "biased". Behind the white nationalist movement are some serious matters that are not being addressed by any party: the increasing decline of the economic situation of the majority; the ascent, on the backs of the majority, of an ever more elite parasitical class who are willing to use any means to increase their wealth (including inciting the white nationalists); and finally the gradual destruction of our infrastructure and hopes for the future. "Will the last billilonaire turn out the lights" is as much a slogan for the white nationalists as the liberals. But you can bet that the billionaires would prefer if the common people fought among themselves (right versus left, whites versus others) than look towards their palaces.
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"Behind the white nationalist movement are some serious matters that are not being addressed by any party: the increasing decline of the economic situation of the majority; the ascent, on the backs of the majority, of an ever more elite parasitical class who are willing to use any means to increase their wealth (including inciting the white nationalists); and finally the gradual destruction of our infrastructure and hopes for the future."
False. The policies proposed by the Democratic party--even its most centrist wing as represented by Ms. Clinton in 2016--address income inequality and the education opportunity gap. It's not the Democrats' fault that we the people find it so difficult to pay attention for longer than 140 characters. I'm not claiming they'll make us all billionaires, but it's disingenuous to suggest neither party is trying to address these issues. Doing so does empower the party of empty sloganeering, though, and these kind of false equivalencies were among Trump's most valuable allies during the 2016 campaign.
False. The policies proposed by the Democratic party--even its most centrist wing as represented by Ms. Clinton in 2016--address income inequality and the education opportunity gap. It's not the Democrats' fault that we the people find it so difficult to pay attention for longer than 140 characters. I'm not claiming they'll make us all billionaires, but it's disingenuous to suggest neither party is trying to address these issues. Doing so does empower the party of empty sloganeering, though, and these kind of false equivalencies were among Trump's most valuable allies during the 2016 campaign.
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It would be nice if Conservatives repudiated racial politics, but that may be difficult if racial politics IS a Conservative policy.
Both parties have failed to address the concerns and needs of a great many citizens, those with less education, less training, less money, less intelligence, less social skills, etc. So it leaves these people open to being used by anyone who makes a pretense of caring about them.
Both parties have failed to address the concerns and needs of a great many citizens, those with less education, less training, less money, less intelligence, less social skills, etc. So it leaves these people open to being used by anyone who makes a pretense of caring about them.
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This is wrong. You are now extending the 'need to understand' from disenfranchised working class men who voted for Trump to a bunch of racist, misogynist, gun-toting terrorists. I agree that the 1% could care less if the rest of us kill each other; but it is a mistake to lump these terrorists with the larger working class malaise. They are itching to tear up the Constitution, remove government oversight of anything and everything and impose their own version of Sharia Law.
9
It seems to me that throughout the US police forces are totally inadequate if not incompetent in dealing with potential violence in demonstrations. Charlottesville was a good example of this. Unbelievable! Having witnessed similar or worse situations in Europe I think US police forces should take some riot control lessons from the French and Germans riot police forces They make our local riot police forces (is there such a thing here?) look like primary school amateurs from bottom to top.
23
The police in Europe are not dealing with a mob armed with assault weapons. Our local police are not as heavily armed as many neo-Nazis groups. In an armed confrontation, they are perhaps wise to be cautious. Once again the necessity of reining in the civilian arms race in our country is highlighted. Do we really want these armed thugs preparing for a race war? The internet and our lax or non-existent gun laws empower them.
4
The French and German police do not have to deal with open carry laws. These protesters were armed with assault weapons - how would you like to be a law enforcement officer facing that? Frankly, it is a miracle no one was shot.
5
It's not a "Confederate-Era" statue. It was erected in 1924.
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The statue is of a leader from the confederate era. That seems like it would fit the description?
1
Almost all of those statues were erected as a backlash against Reconstruction, desegregation and the Civil Rights Movement.
6
These groups worst idea is to march down main street in the middle of the day. The reality is when a vast majority of citizens see them for the thugs they are. The average citizens will be repulsed. These racists will see that they don't represent the ideals of most people and the repercussions of their participation will be swift. If I saw one of my employees marching, they would be fired the next day (racist is not a protected class for employment).
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Of course they would never march down main street in the middle of the day. They operate on fear and hate which thrives in the dark of night. They did themselves a disfavor in Charlottesville by marching at night by torchlight...clearly showing each and every face...in this era of cameras everywhere. A boon to the enemies of fear and hate.
2
Expose those running for office and get out and make sure to vote against them.
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Now that their organizers are seeing themselves on TV they believe their credibility as leaders is being established, so of course they want more rallies. The taste of blood drawn and a woman killed has pumped the adrenaline in these groups that live off of hate. They want to repeat this scene of them as they become addicted to the power of intimidation and fame.
These gangs are attracting members from the lowest dregs of society. Unable to accept their own failed lives they look for others to blame. They seek other avenues to get back the power they imagined they once had or were intended to have. They stroke their egos by buying riot gear and weapons so they can feel some false importance by wearing group costumes.
If the NRA and the Republican National Convention can ban firearms at their meetings, why can't towns and cities ban firearms at these gatherings. Public safety should be the priority. Law enforcement should not allow the violence that occurred in Charlottesville to be repeated.
These gangs are attracting members from the lowest dregs of society. Unable to accept their own failed lives they look for others to blame. They seek other avenues to get back the power they imagined they once had or were intended to have. They stroke their egos by buying riot gear and weapons so they can feel some false importance by wearing group costumes.
If the NRA and the Republican National Convention can ban firearms at their meetings, why can't towns and cities ban firearms at these gatherings. Public safety should be the priority. Law enforcement should not allow the violence that occurred in Charlottesville to be repeated.
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Seriously!! Why is it allowed for people to "peacefully" march with sticks, flammable liquid, flame, pepper spray, guns, projectiles - you can't even bring that stuff to a sporting event!
6
"These gangs are attracting members from the lowest dregs of society. Unable to accept their own failed lives they look for others to blame. They seek other avenues to get back the power they imagined they once had or were intended to have." This is exactly how ISIS formed.
5
How do you know the driver didnt suffer a medical emergency?
“The alt-right will now be made up of losers with nothing to lose".
That's not much of a platform to build a political career on, but then again, the president ran a campaign last year based on white grievance that turned out to be a grand success. Fringe political groups historically have been failures in American politics but after the violence in Charlottesville last weekend, accompanied by presidential indifference to the murder and mayhem left in its wake, the far right's racist agenda is the center of attention in the national discussion. They are determined to become a force to be reckoned with.
That's not much of a platform to build a political career on, but then again, the president ran a campaign last year based on white grievance that turned out to be a grand success. Fringe political groups historically have been failures in American politics but after the violence in Charlottesville last weekend, accompanied by presidential indifference to the murder and mayhem left in its wake, the far right's racist agenda is the center of attention in the national discussion. They are determined to become a force to be reckoned with.
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The Press needs to think long and hard about what role it cares to play in the fortunes of the Racist Right.
Maybe. If they ever get near meaningful power they will all start shooting each other.
Jesse,
I think I know what you're going for here, but specifics are necessary. Who is "The Press?" Is it one monolithic entity? And what role do they play? If you mean that the give them the attention that they crave, I would say that we're way beyond attention getting at this point, but I may be anticipating you.
I think I know what you're going for here, but specifics are necessary. Who is "The Press?" Is it one monolithic entity? And what role do they play? If you mean that the give them the attention that they crave, I would say that we're way beyond attention getting at this point, but I may be anticipating you.
P.S. This is a really male movement. I mean, really male. Yes, the KKK probably didn't have women marching but these guys just...don't like women. There's even a term for it: MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way (straight men who don't want relationships with women). Not that all of the MGTOWs and the men's rights activists (MRAs) are white supremacists - but the overlap seems pretty strong.
Inside the Dangerous Convergence of Men’s-Rights Activists and the Extreme Alt-Right: https://www.thecut.com/2017/03/what-james-jackson-reveals-about-mgtow-an...
"While MGTOWs and alt-rightists regularly spar with one another online, the two movements now appear to be converging, with alt-rightists increasingly spouting anti-feminist, anti-women talking points familiar to anyone who has paid attention to the men’s-rights movement; meanwhile, more and more MGTOWs are becoming less shy about expressing their racism, with many openly identifying with the alt-right."