I don't have any answer to this dilemma, other than to recommend earnest diplomatic engagement, as otherwise, we are playing with matches. Sanctions are just another form of aggression and not a sinecure. In past history, US sanctions against Japan were presumed to rein in Japanese aggression. Instead, it escalated into Pearl Harbour. This action, in turn, was presumed by the Japanese to lead towards a negotiated settlement with the US, whereas instead, it spiraled into a total conflagration.
The true irony of all this - and it does truly amuse me - is that Trump's horrific comments have actually caused the North Korean dictator to become more well-mannered and logical in his retorting comments. Fascinating really. You can learn how to be better behaved by looking at another human being and saying "he is crazy" and then saying to yourself "I'm not going to be as crazy as him because he looks ridiculous." Trump has made Kim Jong-un behave better, quite unintentionally. I'm sure it would please Trump no end to start a war. After all, war is a great way to cause an economy to boom and have maximum employment.... and make America "great again." Nobody really seems to be talking about how a war could be just what he wants to make him look successful. It helps cover up for the fact that Trump can't make America "great again" because all the good jobs are gone, people are up to their eyeballs in credit card debt, and the corrupt banks are cooking up new debt schemes to cause a new crash (this time it will be $100,000 personal loans, I've already received 20 such offers in the past 6 months through the mail so I know that a new recession is on the horizon). I always try to be grateful to my grandparents' generation because the blood spilled by them during WW2 helped create a booming economy for my generation. There is always a cost and I don't want my child's blood to be spilled to make America "great again."
Never have psychology and politics become so intertwined as in the profiles of the two respective "leaders" of US and NK. Both have unacceptable levels of hubris which may lead us all into a nuclear war. The only real solution is to get one or both out of office asap. Kim Jong-in is paranoid about an attack from the US even though no-one was in the least concerned about the horrible little country until he started provoking the bombastic Trump. Neither will back down if past behaviour is anything to go by: it takes a true leader to take THAT first move. One face-saving strategy would be to postpone the next round of US, South Korea war games, something the NK wants and China has said must occur before the pudgy dictator even considers halting ICBM testing in the region. That is not going to be a big loss to Trump - why not start there? I am in Australia and we always joked about heading to Tasmania (last stop on the way to Antartica) when the bombs started dropping. Lucky I can pack quickly. And those bomb-shelter guys you have in the US (I can't remember the name they go by) aren't looking so silly now.
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How can this be the only article on the North Korea crisis in the NYT, at least the online version? One day we are on the brink of war and the next another crisis takes over. If Trump stops tweeting the crisis is over? This whole presidency is surreal.
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The worrisome question for SK/Japan leaders is Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr. is the chairman of the JCS. Donald Trump is the Commander in Chief.
Trump has access to the nuclear black box 'football' and General Dunford doesn't.
Trump has access to the nuclear black box 'football' and General Dunford doesn't.
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The left has been claiming Trump cannot be trusted with the nuclear football (sic), yet he hasn't launched any nuclear weapons yet and in all likelihood won't. Yet the left will never admit they were wrong.
The problem with your predictions about Trump's unfitness with respect to having the nuclear codes is that one day you WILL be proven wrong.
The problem with your predictions about Trump's unfitness with respect to having the nuclear codes is that one day you WILL be proven wrong.
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All of Trumps speeches, interviews, words should be pre-recorded then, actual intelligent, hopefully knowledgeable, moral people will edit them. Then they can broadcast them. UNTILL then might we suggest a muzzle?!
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Dear Mr. Trump, and fellow Americans, Please remember any military action could cause retaliate by north, and It would costs 30 million at stake. Seoul and its surburb is just in range of tens thousands of their classic artillery, and US and ROK armed forces will finally triumph the north, but its cost is huge. Military option should be considered as utmost last resort.
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Once NK has the ability to arm its missiles with nuclear warheads, it will be impossible to put the "nuclear genie" back in the bottle. This is not an issue of WMDs existing or not, it is one of stopping this now. Kim Jon-um executed his uncle and all 20 of his children. This is not a sane individual.
The past 50 years have been devoted to a diplomatic resolution and look where we are now! Clinton, Bush, and Obama kicked this can down the road to the next guy and now time has run out. What happens if NK has a missile failure and instead of hitting the Sea of Japan it hits mainland Japan or a warning shot at Guam hits the US military base? Any diplomatic solution will be at the tip of the sword for us, as it's NK's only bargaining chip.
No one wants armed conflict, it is totally up to Kim Jong- um where this ends. Trump has only assured NK of our resolve. Regardless as to who won in 2016, this hand was being dealt. Let's not forget Clinton gave him the reactors. NK pursued a nuclear program in spite of past diplomatic efforts. What is the next price tag for his silence, South Korea?
The past 50 years have been devoted to a diplomatic resolution and look where we are now! Clinton, Bush, and Obama kicked this can down the road to the next guy and now time has run out. What happens if NK has a missile failure and instead of hitting the Sea of Japan it hits mainland Japan or a warning shot at Guam hits the US military base? Any diplomatic solution will be at the tip of the sword for us, as it's NK's only bargaining chip.
No one wants armed conflict, it is totally up to Kim Jong- um where this ends. Trump has only assured NK of our resolve. Regardless as to who won in 2016, this hand was being dealt. Let's not forget Clinton gave him the reactors. NK pursued a nuclear program in spite of past diplomatic efforts. What is the next price tag for his silence, South Korea?
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This will not end George. it will go on and on while America continues to behave aggressively. China do not want regime change in NK. They have made this crystal clear. SK wants reunification with NK and visa versa. Japan has its own problems with China.
All America can do now is have a trade war with NK and China.
All America can do now is have a trade war with NK and China.
Both Secretary Tillerson and Joint Chiefs of Staff General Dunford are doing their best under the circumstances, trying to put the lid back on the Genie bottle. But Kim Jong Un and President Trump have not as yet dialed back on the rhetoric. Kim continued today as the article states, Trump hasn’t yet but the day is still early! And he’s caught up right now stumbling over himself trying to make up for his blunder in not calling out the racism attacks on Charlottesville over the last few days.
China seems to want to enforce the additional sanctions, but are opposed to the installation of the anti-missile system in South Korea. And from their view this missile system is too close to home, not unlike the one the Soviet Union tried to establish on Cuba in the 60’s.
Though Charlottesville has been domineering the news (rightfully so) for the last few days, nothing has changed with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un and President Trump. Both egos are still high and the war of words unfortunately are likely to continue. Pray it’s only words!
China seems to want to enforce the additional sanctions, but are opposed to the installation of the anti-missile system in South Korea. And from their view this missile system is too close to home, not unlike the one the Soviet Union tried to establish on Cuba in the 60’s.
Though Charlottesville has been domineering the news (rightfully so) for the last few days, nothing has changed with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un and President Trump. Both egos are still high and the war of words unfortunately are likely to continue. Pray it’s only words!
Kim Jong-un doesn’t have to worry about American troops crossing North Korea’s border; Kim Jong-un has to worry about *Chinese* troops crossing North Korea’s border. And I believe it’s very safe to say that he really wouldn’t want to find out how Beijing translates “Roosevelt Corollary” into Mandarin.
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This is the course of action that, of course, both the United States and the World community must earnestly want – and push for. Nevertheless, I feel that it was entirely appropriate for President Trump to "speak the language of the gun" to these people. I think that it's the only language that they really understand.
North Korea has been "ignored" for much too long. For more than fifty years, resentment and pure-evil has been growing, gangrenously, at the top, as East and West tried to look the other way. Their entire regime was born of the gun. They would bring the gun to the rest of the world, if the world permitted them to do so. The people at the top echelon of this nation are psychopaths, and must be regarded as such.
North Korea has been "ignored" for much too long. For more than fifty years, resentment and pure-evil has been growing, gangrenously, at the top, as East and West tried to look the other way. Their entire regime was born of the gun. They would bring the gun to the rest of the world, if the world permitted them to do so. The people at the top echelon of this nation are psychopaths, and must be regarded as such.
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I find it amazing how the South Koreans have remained spectators in the defense of their nation against the North. If only they could generate the national fever against the North as they project against Japan they could solve their problems on their own.
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Gather our troops, go for an amphibious landing at Inchon in North Korea, behind the DMZ, and take out their artillery that is trained on Seoul. Or, cross the Sinai desert, and approach the Turkish artillery at Aqaba from the land.
Have General General Dunford get approval from Traitor Trump. If he's too busy tweeting or he's still fuming over having been forced to lie and say he's got a problem with white nationalists, Nazis, or the KKK, have General General Dunford get in touch with General MacArthur or Colonel Lawrence for further instructions.
Have General General Dunford get approval from Traitor Trump. If he's too busy tweeting or he's still fuming over having been forced to lie and say he's got a problem with white nationalists, Nazis, or the KKK, have General General Dunford get in touch with General MacArthur or Colonel Lawrence for further instructions.
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After the war the South Koreans struggled economically. They are no longer struggling and have in fact achieved economic success. Why are they not playing a larger role in their own defense?
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*South Koreans achieved economic prosperity after a proxy war between the Soviet Union and the US that left the Cold War nominally "cold" while writing off the roughly 600,000 casualties from all nations and estimated 2.5 million civilian casualties sustained by both North and South Koreans. The losses and lasting legacy of tension, fear, and sundering from friends, family, and countrymen suffered by Koreans are largely written off in favor of the valor of the US led intervention to free South Korea, not from the North Koreans, but from communism.
South Korea continues to require its young men to serve two years in its military to maintain readiness in the case of a sudden invasion like the one that started the Korean War nearly 70 years ago. Though DPRK continues to be a belligerent, the US is also to blame for its historical efforts in driving the Korean Peninsula apart to begin with. Debates continue with regard to whether the US presence in South Korea is welcome anymore, but if the US caused this problem, why shouldn't they stay to clean up their own mess?
South Korea continues to require its young men to serve two years in its military to maintain readiness in the case of a sudden invasion like the one that started the Korean War nearly 70 years ago. Though DPRK continues to be a belligerent, the US is also to blame for its historical efforts in driving the Korean Peninsula apart to begin with. Debates continue with regard to whether the US presence in South Korea is welcome anymore, but if the US caused this problem, why shouldn't they stay to clean up their own mess?
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Very good point! U.S. agreed to divide the Korean peninsula based on the 38 line to appease Soviet Union while all Korean people at that time objected it!!
"We are preparing a military option in case those efforts fail?" In case? Really, in case?? In what universe does this general operates? There is no way in hell NK will give up their nuclear weapons. It was a dream before last week, it would be madness on the part of NK to do so now after our own father of dragons threatened them with fire and fury. So if that is the only way we can avoid war, then clearly war is coming. Let's act accordingly then–South Koreans should start packing their bags and Angelinos should move to Main.
Hillary warned us she was the only thing between us and the Apocalypse. She was clearly right.
Hillary warned us she was the only thing between us and the Apocalypse. She was clearly right.
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It seems that the revolution HIllary fomented in Ukraine may have had some spillover effects that included the illicit transfer of weapons technology to North Korea which made their recent unexpected successes more understandable.
The NYTimes report is here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/world/asia/north-korea-missiles-ukrai...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
The NYTimes report is here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/world/asia/north-korea-missiles-ukrai...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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the general operates in the universe every competent officer operates in, that of planet earth and untrustworthy humans where the military is tasked with the missions it is tasked with.
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Joint military exercises right now seem like a possible spark to a powder keg. I pray everyone keeps their heads over the next three weeks.
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I wonder if Paul Manafort can shed any light on this. Our man in the Ukraine.
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Yes, of course. Send a "warrior" to talk diplomacy. They want war to prove their "manliness" and foster fear.
Is The Con Don and his Robber Baron party trying to pull off a military coup in America? Or are they just playing with their little tin soldiers.
Neither is acceptable.
Is The Con Don and his Robber Baron party trying to pull off a military coup in America? Or are they just playing with their little tin soldiers.
Neither is acceptable.
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in reality the military does not want this war because it knows how nasty such a war will be and it cannot prevent that nasty reality of lose lose.
but just repeat cliches about the military that fit your own emotional needs. reality should never breech that need.
but just repeat cliches about the military that fit your own emotional needs. reality should never breech that need.
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There was never an end to the Korean War. NK only signed an armistice, not a truce. By doing so, they have been free to lob threats at everyone for over 50 years while bleeding their nation dry. Everyone is over the idea of bullies in school, so why are we continuing to allow a bully threaten out lives everytime they wish? Lets be done with them once and for all and either hold them accountable for their never ending threats or make North Korean a large crater and be done with it.
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We don't do that because there would be tremendous collateral damage. Millions of innocent S. Koreans and also American military families would lose their lives before N,. Korea is brought down. Perhaps you don't care about them, but many of us do. N. Korea will eventually implode all on its own, and until then we'd better stick to negotiations and remain patient. Other people's lives matter. That's why things like diplomacy are hard. I don't think Trump understands that but I think Tillerson and others do, so I am hopeful.
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The South has provided billions in payments and aid to their brothers in the North over the past 20 years. The North bullies them because it pays.
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Sounds pretty simple Jason - then we can deal with the Chinese and what is left of the South Koreans, both of which will not view us kindly. In effect, our actions will spark WWIII which will bring about the end of civilization as we know it. Anyone who has any sense whatsoever will realize that any victory we might claim by nuking NK will only prove to be Pyrrhic.
What happened to good old shipping embargos as a pressure tool? Most trade flows overland through China but some by sea so there is an added pressure point I have not heard discussed. I know that it can lead to an unintended clash (Japan cited an oil and metals embargo as a cause for war with the U.S.) but so can the placement of missile batteries and military exercises nearby. I'd like to see this explored and debated by experts only as an additional option.
If NK continues with its missile tests, I expect the US to start shooting them down, and I would also expect a naval blockade to follow, rather than a bombing campaign. A blockade is a much more intelligent power lever to force an opponent to negotiate, as was demonstrated by the Cuban Missile Crisis. Since sanctions have never worked against NK, and the new sanctions are not going to change the outcome, stronger pressure will need to be applied, probably in the form of missile shoot downs and a naval blockade. Diplomacy won't work with NK unless buttressed by force.
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Check out the west coast of North Korea here.
We'd be virtually in Chinese waters.Nampo is No.Korean deep water port of significance.
https://www.bing.com/maps?&ty=18&q=South%20Korea&vdpid=134&a...
We'd be virtually in Chinese waters.Nampo is No.Korean deep water port of significance.
https://www.bing.com/maps?&ty=18&q=South%20Korea&vdpid=134&a...
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When there are talks there is hope.
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Why does'nt the U S general go to Our WH and EXPLAIN Diplomacy to the Dimwit, part time resident occupying the Oval Office ? At least that would be a start .
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Those conversations never worked with Obama. This did not happen over night. HRC was asleep at the switch!
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Whew! That Korean thing was really annoying ... now America can get back to discussing Games of Thrones.
Maybe we could get that little person to talk to Kim Jong In ... you know...what's his name Peter Jugdish or something...
He's cool.
Maybe we could get that little person to talk to Kim Jong In ... you know...what's his name Peter Jugdish or something...
He's cool.
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Move our carrier groups into position. Re-provision all naval and air assets to be prepared for a sustained attack on N. Korea as well as a possible threat of intervention from China. Have all our reserves check in and verify their readiness.
And upon the next provocation, no matter how small, use conventional means to obliterate N. Korea's military, leadership, and nuclear assets.
And upon the next provocation, no matter how small, use conventional means to obliterate N. Korea's military, leadership, and nuclear assets.
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you apparently haven't thought about North Korea's response: the destruction of the South Korean capital area and likely millions of people
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And what of the 20 million people in Seoul, all within range of the north's artillery? Are they expendable, to be accepted as necessary collateral damage? The idea of conflict with North Korea, even without Chinese intervention, is insane.
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1. Absolutely. That worked so beautifully in Iraq we should go for it again.
2. The tens (hundreds?) of thousands of civilian Korean casualties don't really matter anyhow, right?
2. The tens (hundreds?) of thousands of civilian Korean casualties don't really matter anyhow, right?
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Yes - diplomacy is what's needed. And yet Trump and Tillerson have fired and not replaced the diplomatic corp in S. Korea and beyond.
Impeach Trump and Pence before they start WW III. Trump and Pence are both crazy.
Impeach Trump and Pence before they start WW III. Trump and Pence are both crazy.
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