It's nice to read that someone as spiritually contrived as Paul can make it to The Stone. Maybe there's hope for all of us then.
Shows you the hypocrisy of these false prophets are on full display
I am an atheist after K-12 Catholic school, have a twin sister who is a nun and my oldest brother is a Jesuit priest.
I told my 4 siblings that we should follow Christ’s teachings to achieve “heaven” for our fellow man here on earth; they leave me alone.
Referring to Trump in the same sentence as God and faith is WRONG. I know because I am the same age as Trump and I NEVER lived such an abhorrent life. Christianity is about absolution of sin. Trump says that he has never done anything wrong to NEED forgiveness. This fool sits on a gold Louis XIV high back chair, has been involved with 3500 lawsuits--lies, broken contracts, three marriages, and many extra-marital affairs that he FREELY admits to.
Speech written by Tony Perkins had him mispronounce II Corinthians--Hey! Who cares?
But Perkins!--Now there’s a “good Christian!” The SPLC says that his Family Research Council is an anti LGBT hate group. Perkins has a sordid political history, having once purchased Klansman David Duke’s mailing list for use in a Louisiana political campaign he was managing. In 2001, Perkins spoke to a Louisiana chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white supremacist group.
Trump MIGHT be confused as he doesn’t support Duke as much as Perkins!
Trump/Perkins do NOT follow Matthew 25:31-40. “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,ye have done it unto me.”
Christian in name only!
I told my 4 siblings that we should follow Christ’s teachings to achieve “heaven” for our fellow man here on earth; they leave me alone.
Referring to Trump in the same sentence as God and faith is WRONG. I know because I am the same age as Trump and I NEVER lived such an abhorrent life. Christianity is about absolution of sin. Trump says that he has never done anything wrong to NEED forgiveness. This fool sits on a gold Louis XIV high back chair, has been involved with 3500 lawsuits--lies, broken contracts, three marriages, and many extra-marital affairs that he FREELY admits to.
Speech written by Tony Perkins had him mispronounce II Corinthians--Hey! Who cares?
But Perkins!--Now there’s a “good Christian!” The SPLC says that his Family Research Council is an anti LGBT hate group. Perkins has a sordid political history, having once purchased Klansman David Duke’s mailing list for use in a Louisiana political campaign he was managing. In 2001, Perkins spoke to a Louisiana chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white supremacist group.
Trump MIGHT be confused as he doesn’t support Duke as much as Perkins!
Trump/Perkins do NOT follow Matthew 25:31-40. “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,ye have done it unto me.”
Christian in name only!
5
The idea of a just war is one that the pope follows. Trump would be the one bringing about enormous devastation and potential deaths. It is the South Koreans who would suffer the worst, as well as the Japanese. Trump himself wouldn't suffer, and that seems to be the only thing that concerns him.
St. Francis's Prayer for Peace seems to be the appropriate prayer these days.
The support for Trump from evangelicals was bizarre and counter-Christian. At the same time, and perhaps overlapping, was the support by racists, bigots, and sexists.
Now hate is in the open with the torches in Charlottesville, and the death and injuries incurred there from Trump's white supremacists. How does Jeffress rationalize that?
St. Francis's Prayer for Peace seems to be the appropriate prayer these days.
The support for Trump from evangelicals was bizarre and counter-Christian. At the same time, and perhaps overlapping, was the support by racists, bigots, and sexists.
Now hate is in the open with the torches in Charlottesville, and the death and injuries incurred there from Trump's white supremacists. How does Jeffress rationalize that?
2
Christianity Does Not Justify Trump’s ‘Fire and Fury’
Do we need to use Christianity as the measuring stick for the President? Why not use humanism?
Do we need to use Christianity as the measuring stick for the President? Why not use humanism?
2
This is intellectually dishonest. Thousands of years of Christendom and its concomitant violence stands as a rebuke to this article. It is the 500 year anniversary of Martin Luther's reformation. His call for the death of the Jews still echoes down the centuries. But is there ONE conference, ONE academic seminar, one re-examination of what he wrought? Just celebrations.
1
Reading about yet another hypocrite cloaking himself in the blanket of God is not news anymore. Jeffress, Robertson, Falwell Jr.--the list goes on and on. As long as you give them money or publicity, anything you do can be justified by an interpretation of some bible passage, however tortured.
What gets me through the day is knowing that they will, someday, face Judgment for what they have done.
What gets me through the day is knowing that they will, someday, face Judgment for what they have done.
1
Trump is not even worthy of this or any other analysis. Satan, if it exists, would justify Trump's words. Trump can not open his mouth or make an appearance without a smirk, a disrespectful comment, and countless sins of inclusion and omission.
Evil cannot be explained but it can be impeached, indicted ( Mueller, hurry), and dismissed. Congress: Wake up! You are taking on Trump-rot.
Shakespeare wrote all about trump in Othello's Iago.. too bad trump cannot be contained in a book.
Evil cannot be explained but it can be impeached, indicted ( Mueller, hurry), and dismissed. Congress: Wake up! You are taking on Trump-rot.
Shakespeare wrote all about trump in Othello's Iago.. too bad trump cannot be contained in a book.
2
What Jeffress is doing is "proof texting" in which he bases everything on one passage of Scriptures. That is not how interpretation of Scripture is supposed to be done. One has to take all of Scripture together including that stuff about loving your neighbor as you love yourself, helping the stranger, visiting the sick, etc. I don't believe Jeffress learned that in seminary.
5
I often don't agree with the Episcopals - but this is correct. The usage of Romans is a gross misinterpretation. Paul was indeed admonishing the disciples to obey laws wherever they live - rather than to be rebels. It had absolutely nothing to do with nation to nation conflict.
"Evangelicals" can certainly give Christians a bad name with their interpretations. They also should be aware of the judgement for false teaching (see the epistle of James) and false prophets.
"Evangelicals" can certainly give Christians a bad name with their interpretations. They also should be aware of the judgement for false teaching (see the epistle of James) and false prophets.
7
We were warned of people using Jesus' name and then not getting in his house. That he'd bar the door to the evil doers. So if they are not preaching Christ saved by grace, not by works lest any one should boast. Then maybe we should point that out and turn away from them.
2
The relationship between Jeffress and Trump originated in a decision by evangelical leaders after WWII that Communism represented a greater threat to Christianity than did the secular state. Instead of speaking truth to power, they decided to adopt the conservatives' platform as an expression of divine revelation. Thus, not only did Billy Graham inform the American people that God wanted them to vote for Richard Nixon, he also implied that the GOP's position on taxes and foreign policy conformed to the divine plan.
Once Graham's successors had decided that liberal Democrats bore the mark of the beast from Revelation, because of their commitment to the welfare state, the identification with the Republican party became almost complete. But this alliance forced a sacrifice of core religious values (the Gospel) in exchange for support on the one issue of abortion. The proof of this lies in evangelical support for Trump, a man whose entire life represents a repudiation of Christ's message.
So, a learned exegesis of the true meaning of Romans can hardly compensate for a process of corruption that bound many evangelicals to such a man as Donald Trump.
Once Graham's successors had decided that liberal Democrats bore the mark of the beast from Revelation, because of their commitment to the welfare state, the identification with the Republican party became almost complete. But this alliance forced a sacrifice of core religious values (the Gospel) in exchange for support on the one issue of abortion. The proof of this lies in evangelical support for Trump, a man whose entire life represents a repudiation of Christ's message.
So, a learned exegesis of the true meaning of Romans can hardly compensate for a process of corruption that bound many evangelicals to such a man as Donald Trump.
13
"A wiser spiritual adviser than Jeffress..."
I realize that we are trying to engage in actually intellectual conversation about morals and ethics here, but must remind the author that The Orange Dumpling of Evil and his enablers have no interest in that. They are interested in control. Jeffress should be brought to task on the parables, supposedly the words of Jesus, rather than moronic interpretations of so-called Saint Paul, who lived after the so-called savior died.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." So-called pastor Jeffress, consider that when you are talking to your despicable congregant.
I realize that we are trying to engage in actually intellectual conversation about morals and ethics here, but must remind the author that The Orange Dumpling of Evil and his enablers have no interest in that. They are interested in control. Jeffress should be brought to task on the parables, supposedly the words of Jesus, rather than moronic interpretations of so-called Saint Paul, who lived after the so-called savior died.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." So-called pastor Jeffress, consider that when you are talking to your despicable congregant.
11
The god of Trump is no more worthy of respect than is the country and people that empowered Trump's ascendancy. Put all that garbage into its own pile and let the terrorists and North Koreans have them. California derves better. #calexit
5
Christianity can justify anything.
What's a Christian? What's a God?
It's whatever you want it to be.
It's not reality.
It's only fantasy.
It's a Jesus Christy
It's magical, invisible, unreliable Godeeoolah.
Created out of ignorance, fear and desperation.
Godeeoolah blesseeoosah...poof. Magic!
What's a Christian? What's a God?
It's whatever you want it to be.
It's not reality.
It's only fantasy.
It's a Jesus Christy
It's magical, invisible, unreliable Godeeoolah.
Created out of ignorance, fear and desperation.
Godeeoolah blesseeoosah...poof. Magic!
9
Actually the Bible provides certain characteristics about God, and Jesus' teachings are fairly specific on a range of things - like helping the poor, forgiving others, rejecting excess materialism and so on. They really can't be used to "justify anything". There's overlap of Christianity with other religions - all seeming to grasp for something beyond our mundane existence and helping us control the selfish impulses we inherited from evolution.
But of course these are all myths and the firmly held beliefs of sincere adherents are simple fantasies that have no apparent value (except for some experts who surmise religion facilitates group cooperation and even civilization, at least until recently).
We modern humans also hold on to a number of myths, such as all people should be treated fairly (for most of human history this generally wasn't true) or that democracy is the best form of government (multiple failures since ancient Greece question that supposition), or even that small-minded caricatures of diverse groups of people - referred to as bigotry - is unacceptable.
Which brings us to your comment. If it was made about any other religious group - Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, for example, most on the Left would call it bigotry. For some reason though, bigotry against Christians seems to be sanctioned by some of the same people. It's still bigotry.
But of course these are all myths and the firmly held beliefs of sincere adherents are simple fantasies that have no apparent value (except for some experts who surmise religion facilitates group cooperation and even civilization, at least until recently).
We modern humans also hold on to a number of myths, such as all people should be treated fairly (for most of human history this generally wasn't true) or that democracy is the best form of government (multiple failures since ancient Greece question that supposition), or even that small-minded caricatures of diverse groups of people - referred to as bigotry - is unacceptable.
Which brings us to your comment. If it was made about any other religious group - Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, for example, most on the Left would call it bigotry. For some reason though, bigotry against Christians seems to be sanctioned by some of the same people. It's still bigotry.
2
"I am the shadow of thy true self..." the gods of men are only shadows of them and can only tell them what they already believe. For an evil man the god will be evil, for a good man it will be kind. Trump's shadow reflects a man in love with power and destruction.
Robert Jeffress is simply another con artist in a long line of con artists purporting to speak for "God."
25
JEFFRESS IS Another grandiose, paranoid lunatic who needs to be recognized as the unstable, highly dangerous monster he is. Clearly he is delusional if he believes that God actually spoke to HIM personally about anything, leave alone all out war between the US and anyone else. In fact, Jeffress, has proclaimed himself to be the incarnation of the Axis of Evil in the US. He must be followed closely by the FBI, CIA and NSA to assure that he does not present a clear and present danger to Homeland Security.
11
Here we have an interpretation of a delusional belief system to counter another interpretation of a delusional belief system. An asylum with two patients who think they're both god>
Your holy books support and call for :
Slavery
Genocide
mass murder
serial murder
infanticide
Punishment of imaginary crimes like witchcraft
Trading women as property
and an entire host of what secular society has rejected.
Morals do not flow from your religion. Morals were forced on your religion by societies who had become sick of their murderous demands and rituals.
If you want to achieve some level of civility- grow up and leave the cave and your invisible friends
Your holy books support and call for :
Slavery
Genocide
mass murder
serial murder
infanticide
Punishment of imaginary crimes like witchcraft
Trading women as property
and an entire host of what secular society has rejected.
Morals do not flow from your religion. Morals were forced on your religion by societies who had become sick of their murderous demands and rituals.
If you want to achieve some level of civility- grow up and leave the cave and your invisible friends
15
That's a laugh, the nytimes telling Christians how to interpret the bible. Look it up, death and suffering are constantly threatened in the bible.
1
Not by Jesus Marta, not by Jesus. Forget the bloodthirsty Jehovah of the Old Testament or the deformations of Christ's teachings by Paul (who as the fanatic Saul, before his conversion, oversaw the stoning to death of Stephen). I challenge you to find anywhere in the words of the Jesus of the gospels, a scripture or scriptures that back you up in your assertion that "death and suffering are constantly threatened".
Finally, I remind you that this article was not written by the NYT's editorial board, but by a pastor and theologian.
Finally, I remind you that this article was not written by the NYT's editorial board, but by a pastor and theologian.
1
How can God give Trump the authority to "take out" Kim Jong-un? Trump thinks he is God.
7
If there really is a god, why did He pick such ignorant snake oil peddlers to be His spokespersons?
17
Religion is the bane of humanity. This belief in fairy tales and superstitious nonsense holds us back as a species.
19
Thank you, Rev. Paulikas, for a reasoned argument. Would that our president would read and comprehend it.
8
If theology ever proves the existence of any "god" as fact rather than invention I would accept it as any other demonstrable theorem, but until that time it will remain a postulate used by those who have always sought power to maintain order and ultimately control of the citizenry.
Labelling Mr Jeffress message as "shockingly uninformed and dangerous" is to allow less strident church leaders of the "word" a pass when they share the same, but less strident message.
It should be understood that whatever biblical passage Mr Jeffress cites was written by men who shared a similar intention then as every contemporary religious leader does now. Does his god need the vastly expensive temples of worship such as the one Mr Jeffress and others of his ilk leads?
Only his god knows, but as a lowly non believer his words, “God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil.”, strike me as a dangerous incitement which has no place in any governance of any people.
I do not know Reverend Paulikas, but however much I disagree with the premise he accepts as his guide, I respect him and Reverend Jeffries. If they would reciprocate by leaving their fantasies out of a discussion which affects living human beings who have to deal with perceivable reality I would also respect them as thoughtful agenda free men.
Labelling Mr Jeffress message as "shockingly uninformed and dangerous" is to allow less strident church leaders of the "word" a pass when they share the same, but less strident message.
It should be understood that whatever biblical passage Mr Jeffress cites was written by men who shared a similar intention then as every contemporary religious leader does now. Does his god need the vastly expensive temples of worship such as the one Mr Jeffress and others of his ilk leads?
Only his god knows, but as a lowly non believer his words, “God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil.”, strike me as a dangerous incitement which has no place in any governance of any people.
I do not know Reverend Paulikas, but however much I disagree with the premise he accepts as his guide, I respect him and Reverend Jeffries. If they would reciprocate by leaving their fantasies out of a discussion which affects living human beings who have to deal with perceivable reality I would also respect them as thoughtful agenda free men.
2
The continued existence of Robert Jeffress and his brethren is incontestable, empirical proof that there is no God.
8
A wise preacher once told me that if Old Scratch wanted to create a religion to destroy Christianity it would look a lot like Evangelicalism. Should it surprise us that false prophets, like Robert Jeffress, want to immanentize the Eschaton via nuclear war?
5
Militarized Christianity.
Great. It's the Crusades all over again.
Great. It's the Crusades all over again.
10
well, at least we'll get parades!
Jeffress is to Christianity what Trump is to America--a fraud and a charlatan. Believe me, there are churches in Dallas, TX who abhor what he stands for.
15
That is a relief, but given Texas, not much of one.
5
This is what happens when the wall separating Church and State is breached. Get Jeffress out of the White House. Get the Bible out of foreign policy. Get religion out of government. Get god out of my face.
27
Oh, now this is rich! A NYC Episcopalian progressive ''pastor'' dares tell the leader of a faith - that is actually growing in our country - what the Almighty thinks.
That is like Castro giving advice on making room for dissident speech.
You KNOW you are hearing liberal rewrites of history when they lead with the Democrats' system of slavery but NEVER mention the war dead or how we changed our constitution to obliterate it forever.
Liberals on the entire subject of history ... walking a minefield of reckless revision and denial.
That is like Castro giving advice on making room for dissident speech.
You KNOW you are hearing liberal rewrites of history when they lead with the Democrats' system of slavery but NEVER mention the war dead or how we changed our constitution to obliterate it forever.
Liberals on the entire subject of history ... walking a minefield of reckless revision and denial.
2
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
You obviously hold the so-called Bible in great regard. I suggest that you attempt reading it, thinking about what you've read, and then attempting (it won't be easy) to live by its best ideas.
You obviously hold the so-called Bible in great regard. I suggest that you attempt reading it, thinking about what you've read, and then attempting (it won't be easy) to live by its best ideas.
2
He sounds like another fire and brimstone Texas fundamentalist trying to bring about the apocalypse.
The type of person who keeps electing Ted Cruz.
The type of person who keeps electing Ted Cruz.
15
I humbly suggest that the Christian figure whose teachings are most appropriate for these times is Dietrich Bonhoffer http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/martyrs/dietrich-bonhoef... Evangelicals who fawn over trump should take note.
4
I was born and brought up in the United States. I have yet to meet a real Christian
12
I have met some, but they seem to be outnumbered by those who don't live by what christ taught.
3
What passes for "Christianity" today is mostly a bunch of heretics following the so-called "Prosperity Gospel," aka the Gospel of Greed. It's a pernicious ideology that turns G-d into a Heavenly Santa Clause and equates wealth with virtue: the more wealth you have, the more virtuous you are. That's why Trump and his billionaire buddies are revered as the holiest of saints who can do no wrong--because wealth is a sign of divine favor.
To put it another way, if you could take the garbage that Ayn Rand wrote and make a religion out of it, you'd end up with the Prosperity Gospel.
Think Social Darwinism for the sanctimoniously selfish.
To put it another way, if you could take the garbage that Ayn Rand wrote and make a religion out of it, you'd end up with the Prosperity Gospel.
Think Social Darwinism for the sanctimoniously selfish.
6
The first Baptist is not fiery at all rather diluted and wordly, so I think of course the book of romans does not say that , chapter 13 talks about how we are not free from governmental rule unless gov compels us to break Gods rule which author mentioned , see beatitudes. I rather think this {pastor] wanted some noteriety , hang with the pres , ukk. In any area you can find people whbo will sell out for gain. I am Independant fundamental baptist, I take it very serious I just think what you do says more about your character than R or D
"...sell out for gain." In the new "the dollar is our only religion america (not worth capitalizing if true)," snuggling up to the Evil Orange Dumpling in Chief is, at least for those who see him as the new path to riches, the way to practice the "so-called Prosperity Gospel."
3
I'm a non-Cristian with a reasonably good knowledge of the New Testament. What I've noticed about Evangelicals is that when they aren't misinterpreting the Hebrew Scriptures and taking verses of the Gospels and Epistles out of context, they're reading at length from Revelation. They needn't worry about nuclear war ( or climate change) because only infidels like me and Episcopal priests will be left after the Rapture. Whatever they are preaching, it's not the Gospel.
14
When we stop deducing moral arguments from sacred texts and recognize instead that such texts codify the morality human societies have devised over time, only then might we forge a truly inclusivist approach to the problems we face.
Christians fighting over theological niceties miss the bigger picture: the existential threat to persons of all faiths (or no faith) posed by an American president who, in addition to possessing no moral character whatsoever, is incapable of comprehending a theological or any other argument.
Forget Barthe. This is not some divinity-school exercise. Argue instead for the impeachment of this dangerous man, and in terms easily comprehended by all decent (that is, most) people. He knows nothing about anything of importance; his words and behaviors are often detestable; he is abusing his high office for personal gain; he willingly associates with persons supportive of vile and idiotic racist ideology; and his apocalyptic threats last week demonstrate unequivocally that he possesses neither the intellectual gravitas nor the moral seriousness essential for dealing with the likes of Kim Jong-un.
Christians fighting over theological niceties miss the bigger picture: the existential threat to persons of all faiths (or no faith) posed by an American president who, in addition to possessing no moral character whatsoever, is incapable of comprehending a theological or any other argument.
Forget Barthe. This is not some divinity-school exercise. Argue instead for the impeachment of this dangerous man, and in terms easily comprehended by all decent (that is, most) people. He knows nothing about anything of importance; his words and behaviors are often detestable; he is abusing his high office for personal gain; he willingly associates with persons supportive of vile and idiotic racist ideology; and his apocalyptic threats last week demonstrate unequivocally that he possesses neither the intellectual gravitas nor the moral seriousness essential for dealing with the likes of Kim Jong-un.
8
That an unhinged lunatic of religious authority, convinced of his own divine wisdom, has the ear of another more deeply but far more dangerous unhinged lunatic, who happens to be President, is more profoundly disturbing than can be fully comprehended.
11
Jeffress has been a well-known local hatemonger for years - he's just latching onto trump to broaden his own warped profile.
7
I must have misunderstood Jesus when he said, "Blessed are the peacemakers...." Jeffress and his ilk must figure Jesus was referring to the Colt 45....Peace maker of the West.
What would Jesus do?
Well, according to the book that right wing so called Christians quote like it was Scripture, we know what Jesus did:
He healed the sick.
He fed the hungry.
He visited the prisoner.
He clothed the naked.
He tended the poor.
He threw the bankers and merchants out of the temple.
He forgave those who tortured and murdered him.
He did all that with love and compassion, not with self-righteous judgement.
He did exactly the opposite of what these so called Christians in the republican party are doing.
What would Jesus do?
Well, according to the book that right wing so called Christians quote like it was Scripture, we know what Jesus did:
He healed the sick.
He fed the hungry.
He visited the prisoner.
He clothed the naked.
He tended the poor.
He threw the bankers and merchants out of the temple.
He forgave those who tortured and murdered him.
He did all that with love and compassion, not with self-righteous judgement.
He did exactly the opposite of what these so called Christians in the republican party are doing.
16
Bob,
So called is easier than "self-defined without references," and it is concise. But we need to be precise here. We don't want to state bull-pucky be like right-wing "bible verses quoters" that take lines out of context (literal, historical, intentional, etc.) to justify their reprehensible biases and extoll them as celestially certified fact.
So called is easier than "self-defined without references," and it is concise. But we need to be precise here. We don't want to state bull-pucky be like right-wing "bible verses quoters" that take lines out of context (literal, historical, intentional, etc.) to justify their reprehensible biases and extoll them as celestially certified fact.
1
The urge to control the global order is malevolent, not divine.
So many believe that God is supportive of any American war when nowhere in The New Testament does Jesus advocate it. The OT however gives Israel more than enough reasons and they certainly use them. Which could be another reason on why they reject Christ as Lord and Saviour.
So many believe that God is supportive of any American war when nowhere in The New Testament does Jesus advocate it. The OT however gives Israel more than enough reasons and they certainly use them. Which could be another reason on why they reject Christ as Lord and Saviour.
1
The obvious problem of any religion/ideology based on the reading of a "Holy Text" is that it will always be subject to selective quotation, interpretation and changing context. This is true for Christians who hold the Bible as their sacred text as it was for Communists who held Marx's work as their sacred text. This is why we have never seen one specific version of Christianity or Communism that every adherent agreed upon. History shows us how Christianity has splintered into hundreds of denominations with thousands of interpretations on what constitutes "True Christianity" since the time of Paul. Until Jesus or God shows up to lay out specifically what the "one true way" is we will continue to see Christians use the Bible to justify all types of evils. Any serious reading of the New Testament shows how often Jesus preached against the love of wealth and political power citing them as serious barriers to entering the coming Kingdom of God. The Trump apologists who claim to be Christian act like they will never face judgment for their support of such an amoral libertine who acts in ways that harms the most vulnerable in our society. They better pray that atheists are right that Christianity is just a myth and not their ticket to an eternity in Hell for their fervent support of Trump.
1
We've heard this tune before.
Jerry Falwell told us in 2004 that God approved of Bush Jr.'s Iraq War.
http://www.wnd.com/2004/01/23022/
Oops!
These self-righteous fundamentalist who claim to speak for God lack humility and fail to learn from their mistakes. Once they are mature to admit wrong, then I might care what they think.
Funny how people always seem find a way to shape God in their own political image.
Jerry Falwell told us in 2004 that God approved of Bush Jr.'s Iraq War.
http://www.wnd.com/2004/01/23022/
Oops!
These self-righteous fundamentalist who claim to speak for God lack humility and fail to learn from their mistakes. Once they are mature to admit wrong, then I might care what they think.
Funny how people always seem find a way to shape God in their own political image.
8
sorry to be so cynical, but i thought donald's bluster about North Korea was a deflection from media reports of his low approval ratings. he's very good at changing the subject. and we moths are eager to follow the flame.
4
In Exodus 23:30 is says "Little by little I will drive them OUT before you, until you have increased enough to TAKE possession of the land. I Interpret this to fully support Robert Jeffress' claim that trump has divine authority to take out any one he desires.
1
HUMANITY does not justify trump's "Fire and Fury ". I have been an Episcopalian my entire life. I have never felt the need to justify anything because I am Christian. You have it all wrong. This is why people are intolerant, thinking only they have the answers and you and I, don't. I am so appalled by the lack of respect and tolerance, sometimes I feel I will loose all hope.
2
It is insane, immoral, vapid and stupid beyond education to even possess nuclear weapons, because any nation that used them would kill more of its own citizens than it could afford to lose and remain a viable country. Neither Robert Jeffress nor Donald Trump are disciples of Jesus, for to even contemplate war with North Korea or any other nation violates the principles Jesus preached and required of his disciples.
That remarkable passage in Romans 13, verses 1-7 is more than likely an interpolation, inserted into Paul's epistle at a later date, or if it was genuinely Paul's words, he was speaking ironically with he readers expected to know that, and to know his literal words mean exactly the opposite of what he seemed to be saying. Paul may have put 1-7 in his letter to Roman Christians to ensure his letter made it through the long journey from Corinth to Rome, all within the Roman Empire's jurisdiction, during which his letter in the hands of a courier could be subjected to inspection by numerous Roman authorities. His seemingly obeisant words about authorities and taxes were designed to ensure his letter made it to Rome without causing trouble for his courier or for the intended recipients.
According to the Gospel of Luke, Ch. 4, not only does Jesus reject the Devil's offer of authority over all human kingdoms, but Luke points out that those who do possess such authority obtain it from Satan, whose it is to give, which makes Trump's immorality understandable.
That remarkable passage in Romans 13, verses 1-7 is more than likely an interpolation, inserted into Paul's epistle at a later date, or if it was genuinely Paul's words, he was speaking ironically with he readers expected to know that, and to know his literal words mean exactly the opposite of what he seemed to be saying. Paul may have put 1-7 in his letter to Roman Christians to ensure his letter made it through the long journey from Corinth to Rome, all within the Roman Empire's jurisdiction, during which his letter in the hands of a courier could be subjected to inspection by numerous Roman authorities. His seemingly obeisant words about authorities and taxes were designed to ensure his letter made it to Rome without causing trouble for his courier or for the intended recipients.
According to the Gospel of Luke, Ch. 4, not only does Jesus reject the Devil's offer of authority over all human kingdoms, but Luke points out that those who do possess such authority obtain it from Satan, whose it is to give, which makes Trump's immorality understandable.
I am heartened by the fact that so many people want to oppose the nuclear one-upmanship of the Trump regime. I want to be clear about that.
Now, however, I must say that one cannot cherry-pick the Bible, as many on both left & right are wont to do. The Old Testament is as blood-soaked tome as anyone has ever written. Moses slaughtering the Midianites; the endless plagues brought upon mankind for some sin or other. Fast-forward to the New Testament, which begins with the Messiah, a fulfillment of the Old Testament. Said Messiah's love of the Book of Isiah (and a wonderful read that is, too) has more content than swords being beaten into plow shares. One cannot sever these two books - no Messiah, no New Testament. And Jesus did not oppose slavery, either.
Mr. Paulikas cites Matthew 4. Matthew 1 starts with "The Begats," which tortuously trace Jesus' lineage back to David. It's a must as the Messiah has to come from the line of David. There's a lot of slaughter in between David and Jesus, and any dime store preacher can use that to justify anything.
My point? The pacifism being attributed to religion is a bit difficult to believe if one actually reads the texts. We do not need ancient texts to have a moral compass. In fact, we'd be better off without the ones being argued over here.
Now, however, I must say that one cannot cherry-pick the Bible, as many on both left & right are wont to do. The Old Testament is as blood-soaked tome as anyone has ever written. Moses slaughtering the Midianites; the endless plagues brought upon mankind for some sin or other. Fast-forward to the New Testament, which begins with the Messiah, a fulfillment of the Old Testament. Said Messiah's love of the Book of Isiah (and a wonderful read that is, too) has more content than swords being beaten into plow shares. One cannot sever these two books - no Messiah, no New Testament. And Jesus did not oppose slavery, either.
Mr. Paulikas cites Matthew 4. Matthew 1 starts with "The Begats," which tortuously trace Jesus' lineage back to David. It's a must as the Messiah has to come from the line of David. There's a lot of slaughter in between David and Jesus, and any dime store preacher can use that to justify anything.
My point? The pacifism being attributed to religion is a bit difficult to believe if one actually reads the texts. We do not need ancient texts to have a moral compass. In fact, we'd be better off without the ones being argued over here.
1
The whole concept of religion is divorced from reality: there is no Truth to be discovered. The whole religious enterprise is a made up collection of fairy-tales.
While reprehensible, Jeffress' claim as to what god wants is no more lacking in authority than any one else's interpretation of what god wants because, and here is the important part: god isn't real.
While reprehensible, Jeffress' claim as to what god wants is no more lacking in authority than any one else's interpretation of what god wants because, and here is the important part: god isn't real.
4
How pathetic that this even needs to be said.
But that's the problem in America: A lot of Fake Christianity and Fake Christians. Too few Real Christians, or Real Christianity.
I'm not even a Christian, although I apparently act and believe more of Christianity than too many American "Christians." I'd love to live in a truly Christian Country. But America ain't it.
But that's the problem in America: A lot of Fake Christianity and Fake Christians. Too few Real Christians, or Real Christianity.
I'm not even a Christian, although I apparently act and believe more of Christianity than too many American "Christians." I'd love to live in a truly Christian Country. But America ain't it.
1
I don't want to live in a Christian Country. I don't want to live in a Jewish State. I don't want to live in an Islamic State. I want to live in the U.S., which used to be sure of its identity as a country founded on freedom of religion and separation of church and state. I want my country back.
7
Texas Clare, I'll help you take our country back. We'll have to pry it out of the grubby hands of those White Evangelical Supremacists, but I'm sure we can distract them with a football game and a truckload of beer! ;-)
What I mean Clare is I want to live in a country with values consistent with Abrahamic religions. Like no lying, no stealing, no killing. Like doing unto others.
That in my mind would be a Christian/Jewish/Islamic/etc. country. Not an officially Christian country. And no truly Christian country would make itself "officially" Christian.
People either do the right thing, or they don't.
That in my mind would be a Christian/Jewish/Islamic/etc. country. Not an officially Christian country. And no truly Christian country would make itself "officially" Christian.
People either do the right thing, or they don't.
As usual, apologists of the ancient mythology of religion come to its defense to tell us that religious people don't understand their own religion. When will intelligent human beings wake up to see and admit that the religious mythologies of the past have no place in today's technologically and scientifically advanced world. Moderate religious people serve as apologists and as cover for the religious extremists. Religion does not need to be condemned -- but it needs to be abandoned as old and outmoded and disproven ideas that modern society must outgrow as soon as possible if it wants to thrive and survive. And for those who might cite regimes like North Korea as examples of non-religious failures, North Korea has its own state religion that worships its leaders as gods. It's all the same.
2
Thank God we have someone who speaks so directly with God, who knows what God truly wants, and is able to so fully inform the rest of us.
Keeping in mind, of course, that to disagree with that person is to disagree with God.
What would be do without half-baked semi-educated, literally-interpreting self-defining evangelical Christians and their pastors! (Oh, wait, I know: We had more sanity.)
Keeping in mind, of course, that to disagree with that person is to disagree with God.
What would be do without half-baked semi-educated, literally-interpreting self-defining evangelical Christians and their pastors! (Oh, wait, I know: We had more sanity.)
2
Listening again to Dylan's With God on Our Side...
1
I'm waiting for the news about all the pastors and priests in the American heartland, in particular, who are rebuking Trump for his callousness, greed, dishonesty, lack of compassion, hatred of his neighbor, and steadfast support of humanities darker angels.
But that story will not be written because that's not going to happen, is it?
We should all give a little thought to why that is so.
But that story will not be written because that's not going to happen, is it?
We should all give a little thought to why that is so.
8
Actually RBW,
It is happening all the time.
In Reform and Conservative synagogues upholding tikkun olam;
In Catholic parishes that uphold the Seamless Garment of life theology (and in those is communion with the teachings of the last 5 popes!);
In the overwhelming majority of congregations in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist and Lutheran traditions;
But as they, if it bleeds, it leads.
So the least Christian Christians represent Christianity in the media.
It is happening all the time.
In Reform and Conservative synagogues upholding tikkun olam;
In Catholic parishes that uphold the Seamless Garment of life theology (and in those is communion with the teachings of the last 5 popes!);
In the overwhelming majority of congregations in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, Methodist and Lutheran traditions;
But as they, if it bleeds, it leads.
So the least Christian Christians represent Christianity in the media.
2
Thanks for this wonderfully written refutation of this dangerous religious justification for violence that is, unfortunately, not limited to Jeffress. Having grown up in East Texas and realizing--at eleven years old--that the Baptist church I attended fostered incredible hypocrisies such as this, I left. I've been wandering in the secular ever since. But, this being Texas, I can't throw a stick without hitting a fervent Christian Trump supporter, including many of my relatives who I'd otherwise consider sane. Despite being around it all my life, I am still at a complete loss to understand how a considerable number of people can support a person so obviously hypocritical and so un-Christian as Trump. He literally goes against everything an American Christian should hold dear. Except that he's white and rich, of course. And I think that really gets to the root of the problem. It's racism indoctrinated into religion and worship of wealth above all else. Truly the root of all evil.
1
Why give them (Christians and other delusional folks) a pass - only a morally bankrupt country can elect Trump President - and Christians, esp the Evans. are Trump's base supporters
4
Correct, Christianity generally endorses submission to power, cowardice that then magically is said to be evidence of superiority that is supposed to lead to eternal life floating around in the clouds. Which inevitably encourages ego maniac depots (because they have paradoxically been treated like mortal Gods), to attack with catastrophic consequences for millions. Logic suggests that the only language that insane dictators like the boy-minded leader of North Korea understand is the certainty of THEIR OWN DEATH if they attack. Trump's fire and fury comment was simply a repetition of the mutually assured destruction promise or strategic international contract that has prevented a nuclear war from being initiated by much more rational US enemies for decades.
Christianity and the teachings of Christ have been bastardized by those with a perverse and self-serving mission. Many evangelicals leaders in the US have done irreparable damage to these teachings. Worse yet, they are leading many people astray. I've watched with great sadness as my family has fallen for these doctrines that seem to espouse the exact opposite of what Jesus taught. One can never debate these points with them as they cling to their dogma or scream persecution. It is essential that true Christians speak truth to counter the corruption of these evangelical leaders. Is it really so difficult to preach love and forgiveness?
6
Why is it that we need the input of religious leaders on foreign policy? Why does this feckless 45th president of ours take any advice from someone whose worldview is shaped by the self-proclaimed apostle Paul who never met Jesus in his lifetime and relies on a collection of letters and narratives written decades after the death of Yeshua bar Yosef, a charismatic Jewish revisionist from the outback of Galilee? Even devout Christians who insist on a literal interpretation of the New Testament recognize that Paul was less interested in political issues because he expected the Return of his Savior at any moment.
The Reverend Paulikis raise several points in terms of text to counter those proffered by the Texan preacher but my concern is, why is this kind of input necessary to consider in the formation of foreign policy?
The Reverend Paulikis raise several points in terms of text to counter those proffered by the Texan preacher but my concern is, why is this kind of input necessary to consider in the formation of foreign policy?
9
Hmm. It is dangerous to go around using Christianity or religion to rebuke Trump about his "Fire and Fury" comments. In doing so, you must then commend Christianity for its stands on birth control, the place of women in society, etc. Some of these positions, while they worked for the first several centuries of the Christian era, don't really cut it in 2017--ask many women about that. Of course, the Old Testament would justify it, but then you can justify just about anything in the Old Testament. Come to think about it, you can justify just about anything by using the Bible.
6
A nuclear war at the present level of weapons technology is unthinkable! Millions would die leaving a scorched earth behind with victory for no one. It is easy to start wars. It is very difficult to achieve a meaningful and lasting peace. Afghanistan and Iraq should have made that painfully clear. Anyone who suggests otherwise is insane.
9
Although I agree with the sentiment, I would go one step further. There is no "good theology" when we attempt to base our decisions about a secular world on a book written by superstitious bronze age men.
5
Robert Jeffress is simply pretending to know things he doesn't know when he claims, that God had given the president authority to “take out” North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. How does he know? However if we do take out Kim, certain of the religious will say it's because of God and not the actual instrument, and as we know God is always on the side of the victor.
1
Why 'ol why not elect an atheist for president? A wise atheist who is highly educated, has high ethical values, and maybe most important, a good sense of humor? They do exist you know and in high number.
5
You might be conflating atheism and agnosticism.
2
I don't think so.
If god is so all powerful, why can't she, he or it speak for itself? Why does it need mouthpieces from the dregs of society? The southern baptist convention is notorious for being anti-education and science.
9
This article is an immensely important statement about how some people are indeed perverting Christian scripture--in the name of Christianity! Given that the action in that regard is seemingly so obviously wrong, what is the motive? It must be an authoritarian personality issue that blinds people to anything but following a perceived strong (white) leader--typically male. Everything then must be twisted into compliance with that mentality. Money that goes with high position in church hierarchy might also be a factor...duh!
4
Anyone who foments war and preemptive attack is not a Christian. Jeffress certainly has not read the same Bible I have read. Like Mr. Trump, he is promoting his own agenda, not the nation's.
2
Take away this man's tax exempt status. He and his church are politicking in the most overt sense of the word and do NOT deserve the benefit of an organization that is tax exempt.
5
What little I have seen of Jeffress leads me to suspect that he, like others of his ilk, have stumbled on a way to make a very nice living. Fortunately his words have no bearing on Trump's war making authority, assuming that is, that Republican members of Congress in his thrall remember their responsibility for war making. The growing recognition of Trump's utter incompetence offers perverse hope that will be the case. In the meantime we await the day when Trump's new found religious enthusiasm prompts him to conclude some wacky remarks with the required "God Blesses", including the "universe, thank you, thank you very much".
6
Our founders intentionally created a secular government so that people throughout the country could believe or not believe as they see fit. People like Jeffries are dominionists. Europe and the world was under the yoke of christian dominionism until humankind found its brains during the scientific revolution, which created a political revolution called the Enlightenment, which gave birth to our nation. We forget our secular origins. It was no accident.
9
It's easier to sell people nonsense if theyre used to believing nonsense.
Religion has always been a tool of division and conquest. Nothing has changed
Religion has always been a tool of division and conquest. Nothing has changed
4
I agree completely, Jon. Our founders were products of the Age of Enlightenment and Reason and knew better than to blindly believe in Bronze Age myths. This is not to say that Jesus's message of universal compasssion is not precious. Thomas Jefferson created the "Jefferson Bible" by taking scissors to the Gospel and removing all the supernatural nonsense. It is available online. I like Ethan Allen's pronouncement that he didn't fight to get rid of a real despot in order to install an imaginary despot.
2
Whether it’s religious inquiry or secular inquiry, in the church or in the academy, it can be unclear whether people are *seeking* the truth, or *conditioning* the truth.
4
Whenever the President, anyone in his administration, or top advisers start quoting bible verses, or ''God said'' edits, to enact public policy or to declare war , then they should be removed from office ( impeachment ) immediately, just on the basis of not mixing church and state.
We are entitled to a secular government ~ the Constitution guarantees it.
We are entitled to a secular government ~ the Constitution guarantees it.
40
"We are entitled to a secular government ~ the Constitution guarantees it."
Not really... Here's what the Constitution actually says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Quoting Bible versus (or the Koran or other religious scripture) isn't grounds for impeachment. If you want to protest something. perhaps you could start with taxpayer-funded vouchers going to religious schools
Not really... Here's what the Constitution actually says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Quoting Bible versus (or the Koran or other religious scripture) isn't grounds for impeachment. If you want to protest something. perhaps you could start with taxpayer-funded vouchers going to religious schools
The author states "Only good theology can debunk bad theology." In other words his theological interpretation is good and the theological interpretation of Robert Jeffress is bad. Unfortunately when a system of thought begins with a belief in a mythological God anybody can make up anything to support their approach to a particular course of action. Dear Mr. Paulikas, only a rejection of theology itself can debunk bad theology.
9
A-men!
Dear Father Paulikas,
I admire the spirit that underlies your essay and while I think you're right to speak of our nation's "faltering moral condition," it is also right to acknowledge that this condition has been with us from the beginning.
We waged a one-sided war and soaked our newly-gained land with the sacred blood of slaves, rested for a bit and then wrested great swaths from Indians we systematically annihilated, rested for a bit and then waged war after war whether enemies existed or not, and whether it was a World War or a Cold War or a War on Drugs or a not yet declared War on Immigrants, in our history, in our language, in our national anthem, and in our blood is Fire and Fury, but the saddest and strangest thing of all is that rarely in the history of mankind has there been a nation with so much rage and so little justification for it.
Cordially,
S.A. Traina
I admire the spirit that underlies your essay and while I think you're right to speak of our nation's "faltering moral condition," it is also right to acknowledge that this condition has been with us from the beginning.
We waged a one-sided war and soaked our newly-gained land with the sacred blood of slaves, rested for a bit and then wrested great swaths from Indians we systematically annihilated, rested for a bit and then waged war after war whether enemies existed or not, and whether it was a World War or a Cold War or a War on Drugs or a not yet declared War on Immigrants, in our history, in our language, in our national anthem, and in our blood is Fire and Fury, but the saddest and strangest thing of all is that rarely in the history of mankind has there been a nation with so much rage and so little justification for it.
Cordially,
S.A. Traina
23
Yes but we have never elected a President who clearly and dangerously embodies the Worst of it all -------- as the leader of our country (and of the Free World!)
This calls for All Voices to speak out vociferously and Post Haste!
! Rationalizing that it has just always been this way -- is ultimately to just toss more magical sleeping dust over a population whose lethargy, cynicism and intoxication with diversionary entertainment, etc etc --- allowed this to happen in the first place!
This calls for All Voices to speak out vociferously and Post Haste!
! Rationalizing that it has just always been this way -- is ultimately to just toss more magical sleeping dust over a population whose lethargy, cynicism and intoxication with diversionary entertainment, etc etc --- allowed this to happen in the first place!
1
"It is a sobering reminder of the power of misguided moral statements to influence matters of life and death in policy," may just as easily be said about Christianity. I can think of no more hypocritical or shallow faith. Islam is still evolving (women); however, Christianity loudly proclaims arrival of the unending truth now in the name of Christ. Jeffress is not an anomalous Christian. Christianity gave us the Holocaust; let's not pretend war with North Korea is a greater leap. Charlottesville was marched on by white Christians defending a white God and a white country. The pews are increasingly empty for a reason: You're liars and you're found out; and no one believes your endless contractions and exceptions anymore. Your moral guidance is like a slithering snake.
8
By your argument, Islamic extremists represent Islam. Like Islam, Christianity is, at its roots, a religion of love, but also of intolerance of injustice. IF you read the words of Jesus for what they say, not what you think they say, or what you think you can use to support a flawed moral argument. Christianity itself has never been the issue, but what Men (and women) do, using the free will their Creator granted them, in the NAME of their religion. I would argue that Fundamentalist Christianity is even more dangerous than Fundamentalist Islam. In any case, for every "bad actor" you can find in the Christian religion, you can find thousands of "good actors", including Christ Himself. Why do we not hear about them? Because of a virtue, I think wrongly labeled Christian, called Humility.
1
In all due respect .......Me thinks the true "shallowness" here is in your supposed investigation into and understanding of what Christianity is all about.
Eric I love how you started and I was going to go after him too but then kind thought why bother he believes nothing, you were right God has done nothing wrong and that should be obvious. But you lost me with the christianity worse meme, christianity tells us exactly what bible tells us yes you can no not one thing and pull out a page out of context the ot is for specific people Jews for that time, nt has nothing but what Jesus taught. Islam has newer verses over riding older milder verses talking consistently about kill them where you find them how to kill them, we have nations where everyone is required to be muslim, if not your right and safety are seriously infringed.
Pastors like Jeffress are preaching a version of Christianity which has nothing to do with what Jesus taught. One of the key principles of Jesus' ministry was the renunciation of violence. He also favored sharing of possessions, but we ignore that lesson as well.
According to Jeffress' logic, presumably Hitler was entitled to start wars and commit genocide. After all he won a democratic election in 1933, so God must have trusted his judgement. Some Lutherans at the time, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, did oppose Hitler and were executed for their troubles. About 10,000 Lutheran pastors were sent to concentration camps. However, many others supported Hitler
Jesus was angry with the church leaders of his day and viewed them as hypocrites. I doubt he is impressed with Jeffress.
According to Jeffress' logic, presumably Hitler was entitled to start wars and commit genocide. After all he won a democratic election in 1933, so God must have trusted his judgement. Some Lutherans at the time, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, did oppose Hitler and were executed for their troubles. About 10,000 Lutheran pastors were sent to concentration camps. However, many others supported Hitler
Jesus was angry with the church leaders of his day and viewed them as hypocrites. I doubt he is impressed with Jeffress.
15
Never have I been so disgusted with Christianity! Many "Christians" willingly voted for a racist, misogynistic and xenophobic cretin to get in the White House. Cheetolini is the literal and symbolic anti-thesis of Jesus Christ! I guess these White Evangelicals skipped over God's warnings of false prophets who are "wolves in sheep's clothing". I guess these White Evangelicals didn't read the book of Revelations which talks about the anti-Christ. White Evangelical Christians have no moral authority anymore!
15
I didnt but I agree I dont get it well actually I do fox news, bush trained them that way, and the media told people that bush was christian that was a scam by Karl Rove
1
That basket of deplorables? We're going to need a bigger basket.
18
The stories told about Jesus that are most counter-culteral -- to his own times and ours -- are the ones that are most likely to be true, to have been repeated in oral tradition in so many ways and places that they could not be purged later: Love your neighbor; forgive; and forgive again; nurture the poor, welcome the stranger; love those who society rejects (the prostitutes, sick people, the foreigners).
The likes of Trump and Jeffress have been with us throughout human history: false prophets of hatred. Only what makes them detestable is that they twist a message of love and forgiveness into a message of hatred, power, domination and worship of wealth. Those who call themselves Christians and worship power and money do not recognize the facts of the stories they repeat in church every Sunday: a man on the margins of society in an occupied territory spoke truth to power and was executed as a political prisoner. That's the story. Look what they've done with it.
The likes of Trump and Jeffress have been with us throughout human history: false prophets of hatred. Only what makes them detestable is that they twist a message of love and forgiveness into a message of hatred, power, domination and worship of wealth. Those who call themselves Christians and worship power and money do not recognize the facts of the stories they repeat in church every Sunday: a man on the margins of society in an occupied territory spoke truth to power and was executed as a political prisoner. That's the story. Look what they've done with it.
11
"Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God."
Matthew 5:9
for they will be called children of God."
Matthew 5:9
10
the religious have never been the peacemakers. the religious xtains and muslims alike were and are completely dedicated to murdering whomever and whatever stands between them and their holy mission
I can't believe the Episcopal Church allowed that travesty. I know it's tradition that the president gets to pick his own religious official, but this disgraceful action took place in an episcopal parish. I want my church, which has been very vocal against the more recent injustices of this administration, to make it clear that it does not, did not, never will support the kind of statements made by mr Jefrfress.
12
As a practicing Episcopalian, I agree 1,000 percent.
2 sets of nonsensical believes that do not exactly match? surprise
1
What are Jeffress's credentials to be god's chosen prophet? That he's got a church that's part of a faction in some Middle Eastern mystery cult? Does a god speak to him, but no one else can hear a god speaking to him? Does his insurance cover psychiatric treatment?
I'll bet you can find at least one christian pastor (and probably a dozen without much extra effort) who'll proselytize just about any lunatic notion you might come up with. Why should anyone credit Jeffress more than that insane fellow shouting gibberish in the subway car?
I'll bet you can find at least one christian pastor (and probably a dozen without much extra effort) who'll proselytize just about any lunatic notion you might come up with. Why should anyone credit Jeffress more than that insane fellow shouting gibberish in the subway car?
10
It appears to me that Robert Jeffress represents the American Christian Taliban - he's a very frightening person indeed.
13
Of course he would use St. Paul, since evangelicals never directly quote Jesus' admonitions: "Pray behind a closed door and my Father in Heaven will hear you" (too spiritual for the likes of Jeffress and Robertson—their God is a Punisher and a Blamer, just like them, made in their image.) And of course "Revenge is mine sayeth the Lord" is never, ever quoted by "dollar sign Christians": couldn't ever turn a profit on that one!
4
This idea the Christians must be pacifists is silliness. The just war must be fought. We defeated Hitler. Kim is Hitler with a nuke. North Korea is the face of evil. Anyone with a moral compass knows that. We mustn't wait until the gun is pointed at our head to act.
1
We didn't fight Hitler for moral cause. Americans supported Hitler and his pogrom against jews, which is why when jews fled, this country turned them away and back to hitler.
We ignored the cries of the people who were being imprisoned, tortured, and killed. It wasn't until we were attacked that we fought. Fighting in self-defense is not moral, fighting in defense of others is moral and we refused to do that until we were dragged kicking and screaming into war.
And quite frankly the only reason why people want war with n. Korea is the fact that they fear a gun is being held to their head.
And this totally ignores that going to war with n. korea is going to kill who knows how many s. koreans, maybe millions and how moral is it to get them killed? Not much.
We ignored the cries of the people who were being imprisoned, tortured, and killed. It wasn't until we were attacked that we fought. Fighting in self-defense is not moral, fighting in defense of others is moral and we refused to do that until we were dragged kicking and screaming into war.
And quite frankly the only reason why people want war with n. Korea is the fact that they fear a gun is being held to their head.
And this totally ignores that going to war with n. korea is going to kill who knows how many s. koreans, maybe millions and how moral is it to get them killed? Not much.
There is nothing "Christian" about any of these haters, Pence included. Jesus Christ spoke love for one another, feeding the poor and that a "rich man" will find it harder to get into heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle. His point was that love of money and power should not become one's "god". All of us err, but forgiveness and learning from mistakes is the name of the game.
6
the likelihood that there actually was a jesus diminishes with each new archeological find.
Just as Israeli archeologist have determined there was no exodus
Just as Israeli archeologist have determined there was no exodus
1
As a Christian, I've always found those Christians who believe that God has given political figures the authority to do shady and immoral things rather amusing. You've got to wonder how they "know" that God wants this for the political figure in question and for the country: do they have a direct line to the Almighty or something?
If I had to throw in my two cents, I'd say that the Almighty is rather tired of spending His days listening to the likes of Robert Jeffress yammer on about how His comings and goings benefit their narrow-minded political affiliations. Of course, given that God is supposed to be possessed of infinite patience, perhaps He isn't tired and I'm just projecting my human sensibility onto Him, sort of like Jeffress is doing regarding that fire-and-brimstone statement from Trump.
What defines Christianity is not the ability to quote scripture or the opportunity to rest smugly in the assurance that God has given His seal of approval to use nuclear weapons to "take out" a lunatic (whatever happened to being stewards of the Earth?), but the ability to follow the example of Christ, that ultimate human being, in serving the least among us. Christians who treat their fellow men like chaff while proudly pretending that they're wheat aren't Christians at all, and perhaps they never were in the first place. Jeffress seriously needs to get out more and live in the real world. You know who did that? Jesus.
If I had to throw in my two cents, I'd say that the Almighty is rather tired of spending His days listening to the likes of Robert Jeffress yammer on about how His comings and goings benefit their narrow-minded political affiliations. Of course, given that God is supposed to be possessed of infinite patience, perhaps He isn't tired and I'm just projecting my human sensibility onto Him, sort of like Jeffress is doing regarding that fire-and-brimstone statement from Trump.
What defines Christianity is not the ability to quote scripture or the opportunity to rest smugly in the assurance that God has given His seal of approval to use nuclear weapons to "take out" a lunatic (whatever happened to being stewards of the Earth?), but the ability to follow the example of Christ, that ultimate human being, in serving the least among us. Christians who treat their fellow men like chaff while proudly pretending that they're wheat aren't Christians at all, and perhaps they never were in the first place. Jeffress seriously needs to get out more and live in the real world. You know who did that? Jesus.
12
as a xtian you are as likely to act badly as any because you accept fantasy as reality
Thank you. Jeffress and other "evangelical leaders" must continue to be exposed as dangerous purveyors of anti-Christian messages.
3
hate is a very xtian message. ask the hundreds of civilizations they have wiped out.
It was quite a pleasant surprise this morning to see extensive reference to Karl Barth in an article in the NYT. Barth was a liberal theologian heavily influenced by Enlightenment ideas. But with the First World War, he become aware of the ubiquity of sin and revived a Reformed tradition emphasizing sin and grace. Barth’s conception of sin was not disobeying rules, however, but, rather, something he took from Nietzsche. Sin is stupidity or foolishness. Both Korea and America are under the power of sin, something Americans who emphasize both human progress and American exceptionalism would do well to remember. There are no exceptional nations. This should not lead us to despair, however, because opposite and much greater than sin is grace. Romans 11:32 express this paradox rather beautifully: “For in making all mankind prisoners to disobedience, God’s purpose was to show mercy to all mankind.”
1
This is just wrong. Barth saw the sin of modern bourgeois Christians to consist in our shallow blindness to the worship of own culture (including our devotion to nationalism and various kinds of self-liberation). He stiffened the spine of the Confessing Church to see that Hitler was the embodiment of another deep force in modern culture, namely, the revolt against God in the name of nationalism and the freedom of man against all constraint. He read Nietzsche, but he didn't buy his whole program. He admitted he was theologically late to the game against Hitler, but when he got in he was totally there.
So organizing your life around the ignorant ramblings of people who didn't know about the universe what any 5 year old would know today seems a good idea?
It would be comicl had it not cost millions of lives and untold suffering down the millennia. yeah "good xtain"
It would be comicl had it not cost millions of lives and untold suffering down the millennia. yeah "good xtain"
@David A. Lee: Nothing you said in your post contradicts anything I said. Basically, Barth saw foolishness as being pervasive in human affairs but that such foolishness never had the final word. Since God acts in absolute freedom, Barth's ethics was situational, and he judged from case to case. He was not dogmatic and impossible to systematize. Perhaps that's why you and I having difficulty in reaching and understanding.
Does the Pastor have a direct line to Jesus? How did he discover that God had given Trump authority about anything? Eavesdropping? And to think that this man is a "presidential advisor"......it is no wonder that Trump is Trump...........
5
Narcissist surround themselves with sycophants. When you have a messianic complex (only I can fix what's wrong with America, I'm so smart I don't need to ask for help or advise, I have the best words, the best people, the best everything), it helps to only have "religious" people around you who will swear you are God's anointed.
1
It is possible, probable , to some, that in fact Trump may be the evil that good Christians are to fight against. He is after all the embodiment of at least four deadly sins.
6
I agree there is absolutely nothing christian about trump and yes none of us are perfect but God will show us our mistakes and we should confess them and forsake them but trump is a billboard for the foul works of the flesh, every single one.
Just 4?
Yet again we see evidence that religion is the worst disease ever inflicted on mankind.
3
This isn't a "misguided moral statement". It is a calculated statement to rile up the "Christian" base. There is nothing innocent or guileless about the trump administration or the people who choose to enable him. Everything he does and says is with calculated precision. The base is easily manipulated by trump and too ignorant to recognize that they are being played by these master manipulators.
We have separation of church and state for a reason. No US policy decisions should be based on "permissions" granted by an ancient book of fairytales. Our country was formed as a secular nation, not one to be ruled by religious dogma. It is extremely dangerous to allow our president to be advised for military actions by a right wing fanatic. Why we are even discussing this in the 21st century is ludicrous. The bible was written by men. Men through the centuries have twisted and interpreted the writings to justify any and all evils perpetrated against our fellow man. We are not a theocratic society ruled by Christina dogma. We are a nation of laws. And separation of church and state is our most crucial. To rule by religious dogma, twisting biblical words to suit our purposes, makes us no different than the Taliban or ISIS. Jeffress needs to be marginalized as do his twisted interpretations of the bible. He has no business advising the president of the United States on military action. His rhetoric is dangerous not only to the USA but to the world at large. He needs to be "silenced".
We have separation of church and state for a reason. No US policy decisions should be based on "permissions" granted by an ancient book of fairytales. Our country was formed as a secular nation, not one to be ruled by religious dogma. It is extremely dangerous to allow our president to be advised for military actions by a right wing fanatic. Why we are even discussing this in the 21st century is ludicrous. The bible was written by men. Men through the centuries have twisted and interpreted the writings to justify any and all evils perpetrated against our fellow man. We are not a theocratic society ruled by Christina dogma. We are a nation of laws. And separation of church and state is our most crucial. To rule by religious dogma, twisting biblical words to suit our purposes, makes us no different than the Taliban or ISIS. Jeffress needs to be marginalized as do his twisted interpretations of the bible. He has no business advising the president of the United States on military action. His rhetoric is dangerous not only to the USA but to the world at large. He needs to be "silenced".
6
So Mr. Jeffress spoke with God and he told him that Trump can take out Kim Jong-un. Did he get that in writing? A stone tablet will do. Oh wait, there was a stone tablet, I believe it said something about thou shall not kill.
6
Robert Jeffress is a bigot, religious and otherwise. On occasion he may have said something appropriate, although I cannot site a specific example. His opinions only matter in a negative sense and any cause with whom he associates is made the poorer.
4
How ironic the evangelical pastor backing Trump's fire and fury when they are SUPPOSED to be the Pro-Life party. I guess they don't care if millions upon millions die from a nuclear war. Fake Jesus evangelicals!
11
Organized religion: the original pyramid scheme. Seriously.
12
If Trump uses Jeffress' faux-Christianity to justify his planetary death-wish, it will be the first and last time he references any Christian prinicple to justify his own pathology. If there were indeed such a thing, the Anti-Christ would, too.
1
The only public figure and politician that made me feel at home and want to do my best for my Country is The Honorable Barack Obama. Some Americans are descendants of Richard Bennett, the first Governor of Virginia, and my mother used to send enough ancestral blue prints from Paris to wallpaper Grand Central Station.
My great grand-father fought on the Confederate Side under Stonewall Jackson, and after being wounded and taken hostage was released and took up the practice of medicine in Baltimore; his daughters among the first doctors and scientists at the beginning of the 20th Century.
Now. Educated by the nuns and brought-up in France, I am happy to report that they did not go on a babble about being a good 'Christian', but tried to instill into our uninformed minds a sense of morality, while giving us freedom to think independently and I was a teen when reading the writings of Hitler, which went directly into the bin.
Before the presidential elections, I received a rare circulating email from an American family, staunch Republicans, which was 'Hate', and deleted. Poison, and the message was all about being a Christian. There are a lot of frightened people out there, some are struggling, and a Jesuit priest in a letter concerning Mr. Douthat's essay on American Catholics, wrote that he understands that America is in trouble.
One of the only true 'Christian' friends I have is a Muslim because she is about Love, and both of us wonder why America is being so wicked.
My great grand-father fought on the Confederate Side under Stonewall Jackson, and after being wounded and taken hostage was released and took up the practice of medicine in Baltimore; his daughters among the first doctors and scientists at the beginning of the 20th Century.
Now. Educated by the nuns and brought-up in France, I am happy to report that they did not go on a babble about being a good 'Christian', but tried to instill into our uninformed minds a sense of morality, while giving us freedom to think independently and I was a teen when reading the writings of Hitler, which went directly into the bin.
Before the presidential elections, I received a rare circulating email from an American family, staunch Republicans, which was 'Hate', and deleted. Poison, and the message was all about being a Christian. There are a lot of frightened people out there, some are struggling, and a Jesuit priest in a letter concerning Mr. Douthat's essay on American Catholics, wrote that he understands that America is in trouble.
One of the only true 'Christian' friends I have is a Muslim because she is about Love, and both of us wonder why America is being so wicked.
4
Who can argue with this sober assessment of the words of fools, posing as Christian leaders? The leaders of Christian Germans (as distinct from impostors called "German Christians") were prepared to go to a full pacifism to confront the leaders of Nazi Germany. They (including Karl Barth's disciple, Dietrich Bonhoeffer) concluded instead that they too must resort to the sword-- precisely to rid the world of Adolf Hitler-- and so they joined the armed conspiracy against him. The responsible question before the American people today is not perhaps whether to confront the irresponsible leaders of North Korea. The deep, burning question is whether Donald Trump is the man to wield the sword of the American people. I say NO, emphatically. It is time to remove him from office, and I believe that responsible Christians must be prepared to shoulder that responsibility along with all Americans of good will.
3
Thank you for making such a cogent analogy supporting the many righteous arguments here challenging the corruption of what many view as a philosophy of peace. In my mind, the hypocrisy inherent in many religious leader's selfish interpretations of enlightenment, spiritual salvation and what is good or evil behavior, is a main impediment to our advance as a species. Somewhere deep inside, I believe we all long for a true mind/body/God synthesis.
1
I mean you no offense, but I just do not buy ANY analogies to anything that suggests that evolutionary doctrine about human origins proves man's moral or spiritual advance, in any direction. On the contrary, the deep value of Barthian theology is just exactly that it utterly rejects all such delusions. As Bonhoeffer put it so exactly in "Creation and Fall," we share with the first man and woman the same predicament they faced, which is what to make of themselves when they wake up outside the garden of all illusions about themselves.
1
In reading your last paragraph:
"A wiser spiritual adviser than Jeffress would counsel the president that there is no conceivable argument to be found in Christian scripture for threatening death and suffering on a huge scale. His distorted interpretation of the Bible has added more poison to the country’s already-faltering moral condition at a time of international crisis."
my mind went to our congress, 92% of whom are Christians and yet in trying to pass a health care bill they tried to take health care away from 22 million or more people. They should all read your column. Why do Republicans and Christians believe so much in killing the poor and innocent? I can't get this through my mind. Is this what Christianity is really all about.
"A wiser spiritual adviser than Jeffress would counsel the president that there is no conceivable argument to be found in Christian scripture for threatening death and suffering on a huge scale. His distorted interpretation of the Bible has added more poison to the country’s already-faltering moral condition at a time of international crisis."
my mind went to our congress, 92% of whom are Christians and yet in trying to pass a health care bill they tried to take health care away from 22 million or more people. They should all read your column. Why do Republicans and Christians believe so much in killing the poor and innocent? I can't get this through my mind. Is this what Christianity is really all about.
2
sorry to keep commenting but I know this subject and im passionate about it.
NO NO that is not what christianity is about! so many people have a horrible opinion of God because they no nothing about him but what many people who use and abuse the term do, they make merchandise of it as Jesus said to the moneychangers. He cared nothing of himself but had compassion on all he saw even those who sliced him up and crucified him.
NO NO that is not what christianity is about! so many people have a horrible opinion of God because they no nothing about him but what many people who use and abuse the term do, they make merchandise of it as Jesus said to the moneychangers. He cared nothing of himself but had compassion on all he saw even those who sliced him up and crucified him.
Are any North Korean obliged to follow what Kim says.
After all he is an absolute dictator and kills dissenters at will.
What should one do when faced with relentless evil ?
Do we just keep appeasing North Korea as it makes longer ranged
and more powerful warheads.
Should we just wait, like pacifists insisted we wait, until Herr Hitler
invades Poland ?
All the arguments that North Korea only built these Nuclear Tipped
ICBM as a form of protection against US invasion are empty.
If North Korea does not want to invite War with the US then
why make threats against the US, South Korea, Japan and Guam ?
I invite Steven Paulikas to fly to North Korea and convince Kim
to step down and to dismantler his totalitarian government and allow
re-unification with South Korea and I hope he remains in North Korea
protesting any threat of violence until Kim does as he should.
After all he is an absolute dictator and kills dissenters at will.
What should one do when faced with relentless evil ?
Do we just keep appeasing North Korea as it makes longer ranged
and more powerful warheads.
Should we just wait, like pacifists insisted we wait, until Herr Hitler
invades Poland ?
All the arguments that North Korea only built these Nuclear Tipped
ICBM as a form of protection against US invasion are empty.
If North Korea does not want to invite War with the US then
why make threats against the US, South Korea, Japan and Guam ?
I invite Steven Paulikas to fly to North Korea and convince Kim
to step down and to dismantler his totalitarian government and allow
re-unification with South Korea and I hope he remains in North Korea
protesting any threat of violence until Kim does as he should.
2
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
1 Peter 2:13-14
God's Word is what it is Vicar.
1 Peter 2:13-14
God's Word is what it is Vicar.
1
Mr. Paulikas and most of the commenters missed the point and gave credence to the Jeffress position by a counter-Biblical argument. Rather, all that the article needed to say is that another religious lunatic, you know someone who believes in fairy tales, said something awful and intolerant.
By the time you are done reading this comment a hundred other such persona will make similar remarks in this country alone.
Why give them credence with this article.
By the time you are done reading this comment a hundred other such persona will make similar remarks in this country alone.
Why give them credence with this article.
1
Shouldn't the first people to speak up about this atrocity be the people Jefress is claiming to represent? BTW, it wasn't an article, but an opinion piece.
Trump's spiritual advisor is a Christian heretic.
3
God need not ever himself nor 'inspire' some human fanatic to "take out" any invidual, God merely needs to change Kim's mind.
Just imagine that if God had simply changed the pharoh's mind, Egypt could have been spared the 'miracle' of the slaughter of every first son in Egypt (AKA Passover). There is zero evidence that this slaughter occurred anyways.
Christianity provides absolutely no basis upon which to justify or not justify anything. The bible has been used to both justify (southern baptists) and condemn (abolitionists) slavery. History is replete with instances of rival groups finding bible quotes supporting any and all sides to any argument. This article is a textbook example this.
Just imagine that if God had simply changed the pharoh's mind, Egypt could have been spared the 'miracle' of the slaughter of every first son in Egypt (AKA Passover). There is zero evidence that this slaughter occurred anyways.
Christianity provides absolutely no basis upon which to justify or not justify anything. The bible has been used to both justify (southern baptists) and condemn (abolitionists) slavery. History is replete with instances of rival groups finding bible quotes supporting any and all sides to any argument. This article is a textbook example this.
3
I find most mainline church leaders today are more comfortable delivering sermons on Old Testament themes. Why is that? Mr. Paulikas has done a service here, showing that even when they do venture into the New Testament, today's "Christian" leaders often twist it to their preconceived political and social goals. I guess the NT is just too hard -- all that forgiveness and loving your enemy stuff is really hard to sell to most Americans.
People: Just read the "red words." Figure it out for yourself. It's not hard to understand. It's hard to do. Change your own heart first.
People: Just read the "red words." Figure it out for yourself. It's not hard to understand. It's hard to do. Change your own heart first.
1
Thank you Mr. Paulikas for your article.
Mr. Jeffress seems to completely rips these eight verses from the context of true love. Arguably, Romans 12, the chapter before, is a better exhortation to love than 1 Corinthians 13. The context after Romans 13:1-8 is also an exhortation to love. Thus, Romans 12:1-8 needs to be seen in the context of love. Mr. Jeffress seems to miss that context.
In other passages concerning 'the state', it seems the state is to preserve the peace and protect the people, not promote the destruction of others.
Again, thank you Mr. Paulikas.
Mr. Jeffress seems to completely rips these eight verses from the context of true love. Arguably, Romans 12, the chapter before, is a better exhortation to love than 1 Corinthians 13. The context after Romans 13:1-8 is also an exhortation to love. Thus, Romans 12:1-8 needs to be seen in the context of love. Mr. Jeffress seems to miss that context.
In other passages concerning 'the state', it seems the state is to preserve the peace and protect the people, not promote the destruction of others.
Again, thank you Mr. Paulikas.
We all know what Gandhi thought of Christianity in relation to the life & words of Christ. Jeffress offers yet another example of "Christianity."
2
Gandhi said,"I like your Christ, his followers, not so much," I agree.
5
Anyone can read religious texts and interpret them any way they want to, or any way they are predisposed to, so if someone is full of bigotry and/or xenophobia, they can easily read into the Torah or the Gospels or the Koran the injunction to go out and punish or kill "the infidels." A person who is full of love can read those very same lines and understand them to mean that we should love one another without distinction, being as generous and kind to strangers as we would to our own families. Megalomaniac leaders have long used the language of religion to drive their people and nations to destruction. They really believe in their own garbage, so Hitler honestly thought he was doing Germany and the world a big favor by bringing about the holocaust.
I don't know why this would surprise anyone, coming out of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, which has a long history of providing theological cover to reactionary politics. Their most famous pastor, W. A. Criswell, gave an important speech in 1956 exhorting ministers to fight desegregation because it was a "denial of all that we believe in.” He denounced as "idiocy" the Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education and thundered, “Let them integrate. Let them sit up there in their dirty shirts and make all their fine speeches. But they are all a bunch of infidels, dying from the neck up.”
2
Citing Paul, one of the earliest bigots to call himself a christian, is not citing Christ. Paul's and Christ's teachings are very different, the two men never met, and following Paul's teachings makes one a Paulinian, not a Christian.
2
How about Commandment No. 1, straight from the big Kahuna herself - "THOU SHALL NOT KILL!"
Any questions?
Any questions?
Actually it is not the 1st at all. It is the 7th. Not committing adultery is before it. And five more like the 1st that you shall have no other god besides me.
Trump is not threatening death and destruction on a huge scale. He is using the prospect of same to deter unprovoked threats and aggression.
He is defending the country, a matter for which religion except in the broadest sense offers no sure guide. We are in the realm of the temporal here, mainly.
He is defending the country, a matter for which religion except in the broadest sense offers no sure guide. We are in the realm of the temporal here, mainly.
4
Sadly, Jeffress is one of the seemingly growing number of "Christians" who see fit to extract verses from the Scriptures to fit their narrow (and many times, twisted) world views and ignore all references and Scripture that would be directly contrary to these same views. Is it any wonder that many are rejecting the Christian church?
3
I don't know if it is a growing number of Christians, or if we have been so complacent we allowed them to gain positions of power.
In politics there is no good and/or evil, but right and/or wrong.
3
A wise person is not led astray by any leader who justifies immoral action by spinning the meaning of a holy text to make an argument. Repeatedly, free will is put in question by such thinking and yet, aren't the actions of our own free will exactly what our immortal souls are expecting to be judged upon when our lives come to an end? A holy war, a racial war, a gender war can only be won or lost in our individual hearts and translated into our group consciousness. Be kind.
3
Steven, with all due respect, let's leave religion out of this discussion all together. There is no possible justification in Common Sense for provoking the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
Anyone who proposes such things is, regardless of which of the multitude of gods he or she claims to be speaking for, simply insane.
"So how can we bring a halt to this march toward war? The answer lies in theology and ethics as much as it does in politics and strategy.
Again, we must leave "theology" all of them out of the discussion. It is fine if you and Robert want to argue about whose assumptions about reality are right, but we have to rely on Common Sense and believe it not, Science to run the country. You are aware of the religious climate deniers and the current acts of planet wide destruction they are bringing down on us?
That's why we have Constitutional Laws that absolutely remove religion form government. We cannot have religious fanatics of any persuasion making policy for the Nation.
Trump of course is another matter. He is with out a heart and is impervious to any thing that might resemble the Good, that is the Common Good. He is totally immersed in the illusion of of himself.
Anyone who proposes such things is, regardless of which of the multitude of gods he or she claims to be speaking for, simply insane.
"So how can we bring a halt to this march toward war? The answer lies in theology and ethics as much as it does in politics and strategy.
Again, we must leave "theology" all of them out of the discussion. It is fine if you and Robert want to argue about whose assumptions about reality are right, but we have to rely on Common Sense and believe it not, Science to run the country. You are aware of the religious climate deniers and the current acts of planet wide destruction they are bringing down on us?
That's why we have Constitutional Laws that absolutely remove religion form government. We cannot have religious fanatics of any persuasion making policy for the Nation.
Trump of course is another matter. He is with out a heart and is impervious to any thing that might resemble the Good, that is the Common Good. He is totally immersed in the illusion of of himself.
6
Fine essay by Steven Paulikas. The Antichrist is in control of the Right Wing Christian movement. Thus, Jeffress is empowered by the Antichrist to make his argument that contorts the message of Jesus Christ. Christians would do well to understand that.
Jeffress's statement:
“God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil.”
only makes sense under the leadership of the Antichrist. It is clear from the Bible that man cannot stop evil. This would mean that man, himself, could alter God's plan. To be able humanly to alter God's plan would be a power that is falsely promised by the Antichrist. God would have contradicted Himself.
The solution that Jesus told us is to receive grace from God. That Jeffress seeks to deflect Jesus's message shows the power that Jeffress, and other Right Wing clergy, have in this world. Worldly power is endowed by the Antichrist.
While no man is evil (we hold the hope of salvation for each individual soul), individuals can propagate evil by doing the bidding of the Antichrist in return for intoxicating worldly power. Thus we have Trump's exposition before the Boy Scouts. The Scouts are a worldly organization that can be controlled by the Antichrist, just as is the Right Wing Christian movement.
The very association of the message of Jesus Christ to carnal politics, so called Right Wing Christianity, is a great success of the Antichrist. It has empowered many preachers.
Jeffress's statement:
“God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil.”
only makes sense under the leadership of the Antichrist. It is clear from the Bible that man cannot stop evil. This would mean that man, himself, could alter God's plan. To be able humanly to alter God's plan would be a power that is falsely promised by the Antichrist. God would have contradicted Himself.
The solution that Jesus told us is to receive grace from God. That Jeffress seeks to deflect Jesus's message shows the power that Jeffress, and other Right Wing clergy, have in this world. Worldly power is endowed by the Antichrist.
While no man is evil (we hold the hope of salvation for each individual soul), individuals can propagate evil by doing the bidding of the Antichrist in return for intoxicating worldly power. Thus we have Trump's exposition before the Boy Scouts. The Scouts are a worldly organization that can be controlled by the Antichrist, just as is the Right Wing Christian movement.
The very association of the message of Jesus Christ to carnal politics, so called Right Wing Christianity, is a great success of the Antichrist. It has empowered many preachers.
5
When I read these articles about who or what defines Christianity, my atheism gets reinforced. People create a god based on their own values and morality then search the bible, or other sources, to justify it. A person creates a god in their own image, not vice-versa.
52
And atheists find justification for whatever they wish to do as well - up to the suffering inflicted upon millions by leaders like Stalin and Mao. It seems the mind evolved a canny ability to justify whatever it wants.
Strip away notion of 'religion' if you wish, but there's still some value in understanding the teachings - and perhaps even holding them up as worthy of emulation - certain non-violent individuals throughout history who developed insight into the human psyche - Socrates, Jesus, Buddha and Gandhi, for example.
Strip away notion of 'religion' if you wish, but there's still some value in understanding the teachings - and perhaps even holding them up as worthy of emulation - certain non-violent individuals throughout history who developed insight into the human psyche - Socrates, Jesus, Buddha and Gandhi, for example.
There is a vast chasm between religion vs. ethics and morality.
With all due respect, I would argue that perhaps the key problem in Christianity today is that its creator, Paul, was a guilt-ridden former persecutor of the early Jesus movement who never, in fact, met the avatar in question, who may have well invented many of the theories associated with Jesus’ divinity, and who absolutely, positively, via his ludicrous contention of "justification by faith", created the template for the religious idiocy of our time.
In this, the year of the 500th anniversary of the start of The Reformation, I humbly submit that one should only call themselves a Christian if they consistently strive to place Jesus' actual philosophy of non-violence and societal brotherhood at the core of their modus operandi in the world.
IMHO, the doctrine of "justification by faith" renders Jesus a toothless sugar daddy in the sky who magically forgives all sins, regardless of the number of times you repeat them, thus empowering human beings to do pretty much anything they desire, in perpetuity – including supporting political candidates who make a complete mockery of Jesus’ actual philosophy of love, non-violence, and societal brotherhood.
Finally, I humbly suggest that it would be most appropriate if the ministers that Reverend Paulikas cites removed all crosses from their places of worship and replaced them with a new symbol consisting of a humongous dollar sign bisected by an assault weapon.
In this, the year of the 500th anniversary of the start of The Reformation, I humbly submit that one should only call themselves a Christian if they consistently strive to place Jesus' actual philosophy of non-violence and societal brotherhood at the core of their modus operandi in the world.
IMHO, the doctrine of "justification by faith" renders Jesus a toothless sugar daddy in the sky who magically forgives all sins, regardless of the number of times you repeat them, thus empowering human beings to do pretty much anything they desire, in perpetuity – including supporting political candidates who make a complete mockery of Jesus’ actual philosophy of love, non-violence, and societal brotherhood.
Finally, I humbly suggest that it would be most appropriate if the ministers that Reverend Paulikas cites removed all crosses from their places of worship and replaced them with a new symbol consisting of a humongous dollar sign bisected by an assault weapon.
77
Oh, if only could recommend your comment a hundred plus times!
Mr. Jeffress, like many other of the most visible leaders of fundamentalist Christianity, represents the forces of static religion and closed morality.
Static religions: Religions that by practices, rituals, narratives and repetition of traditional teachings train adherents to participate in a closed morality and to honor those who exercise power and authority within the tribe.
Closed morality: A morality in which the customs and traditions of a tribal group, as reinforced by authorities within the group, are prized over the reflective capacities of the individuals within the group. The authorities are recognized as the ultimate arbiters of right and wrong--to question them is generally itself rebuked as an obvious fault. Compassion and empathy for members of the tribe are stressed, but are not extended with anything approaching the same gusto to those who are "Others." Acknowledgement of complexity, of the expansion of human knowledge, of changing natural, environmental and social conditions, of concrete circumstances and of the existence of severe moral dilemmas are all given short-shrift. Closed-morality leaders are prized for their power to provide definitive answers and, at least in appearance, for their own conformity to the rigid code they themselves promulgate.
Static religions: Religions that by practices, rituals, narratives and repetition of traditional teachings train adherents to participate in a closed morality and to honor those who exercise power and authority within the tribe.
Closed morality: A morality in which the customs and traditions of a tribal group, as reinforced by authorities within the group, are prized over the reflective capacities of the individuals within the group. The authorities are recognized as the ultimate arbiters of right and wrong--to question them is generally itself rebuked as an obvious fault. Compassion and empathy for members of the tribe are stressed, but are not extended with anything approaching the same gusto to those who are "Others." Acknowledgement of complexity, of the expansion of human knowledge, of changing natural, environmental and social conditions, of concrete circumstances and of the existence of severe moral dilemmas are all given short-shrift. Closed-morality leaders are prized for their power to provide definitive answers and, at least in appearance, for their own conformity to the rigid code they themselves promulgate.
7
As a Reformation Theologian / Philosopher / Apologist may I state unequivocally that ; If only ' Closed Morality ' were the worst of todays ' Evangelical ' ( the current designation ) problems rather than the least . To be blunt the worst problem in what passes for Evangelical Christianity today is the fact that they've left behind the Scriptures they claim to hold so dearly having replaced it with politics and the Gospel of Ay Rand in their desperate quest for power in the futile attempt to make America what it never has been and will never be ( a Theocracy ) choosing power over Truth .. as the Church in general has so often in the past
Suffice it to say I'd go so far as to claim that todays American ' Christianity ' has only been surpassed in its blatant hypocrisy and outright heresy by that of the Lutheran and Catholic churches of Germany not to mention the worldwide Ecumenical Counsel of the 1930's - 40's that followed Hitler and the Nazi party in lockstep with very few exceptions
Suffice it to say I'd go so far as to claim that todays American ' Christianity ' has only been surpassed in its blatant hypocrisy and outright heresy by that of the Lutheran and Catholic churches of Germany not to mention the worldwide Ecumenical Counsel of the 1930's - 40's that followed Hitler and the Nazi party in lockstep with very few exceptions
I certainly disagree with nothing in this article.
However, I would point out two things that are not exactly on point but I think relevant:
1. In all of European history there was much fighting between nations. Before battle, all of them prayed for victory over the enemy. They all prayed to the same Christian god.
2. In all history, one is hard pressed to find an aggressor who went to war in the name of evil. All are on the side of the "good" as they produce the bloodshed.
Welcome to humanity.
However, I would point out two things that are not exactly on point but I think relevant:
1. In all of European history there was much fighting between nations. Before battle, all of them prayed for victory over the enemy. They all prayed to the same Christian god.
2. In all history, one is hard pressed to find an aggressor who went to war in the name of evil. All are on the side of the "good" as they produce the bloodshed.
Welcome to humanity.
11
(According to scriptures) God sent Jonah to Nineveh for the sake of the children who were too young to put on their own shoes. In every case, war (particularly nuclear war which is so indiscriminate of its victims) should be avoided as much as possible, for the sake of the children, if for no other reason. Nuclear war against the United States, and against North Korea, should be avoided for the sake of the ones who are not old enough to tie their shoes or buckle their sandals.
8
Jeffress does not represent the church in which I was raised, but he does represent the reason I left that same church: their willingness to bend their "holy" book to suit their ends, regardless of what those ends are.
125
You ... I and many others like us have left the Church due to their outright hypocrisies over the last few decades to the point of us garnering a label ( None's ) along with multiple books and articles about us .
Yet other than whinging blaming and complaining the Church does nothing to address us despite their rapidly waning numbers
Yet other than whinging blaming and complaining the Church does nothing to address us despite their rapidly waning numbers
1
I live in Dallas. Worked downtown many years - had to pass the FBC each day. Saw the hateful sign "Gay is Not OK". I too was raised Baptist but knew when I was 16 that I would leave it. My small church was filled with hate and gossip and fear, all in the name of the Lord. In my older age now I believe now that modern day Christians have lost sight of what Jesus is, and my heart breaks.
1
It's good to have some theological input to the political debate. Thank you. Next; a discussion of the varying concepts of jihad in Islam? Or: our Christian duties to the stranger within the gate?
4
"Robert Jeffress, the evangelical pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, and a presidential adviser, released a statement claiming that God had given the president authority to 'take out' North Korean leader Kim Jong-un ... Jeffress’s theology is shockingly uninformed and dangerous, and it is a sobering reminder of the power of misguided moral statements ... " Indeed. He is yet another example of someone giving Christianity a bad name. Here in Houston, we have Joel Osteen and his "Prosperity Gospel", plus a State Board Of Education with evangelicals pushing to get creationism into the public school science classroom. The message is to get rich, "take out" certain people, and replace science with dogma. These Christianists are "dangerous", alright.
71
Hahaha. So funny to hear about these "Christian shopper" trolls. I was raised by strict, no nonsense Franciscan nuns, and they told us learning was a gift from Christ—for free. Prayer was done silently, meditation was introduced at age 6 in preparation for First Communion. Bragging and self-aggrandizement were the very "wickedness and snares of the devil". Yet they took time to be human with us, played baseball with us, told jokes, shared lunches with us. I always thought they were too strict about spiritual matters, but now I see why. Lead us not into temptation. There but for the grace of God go I. Ugh!
1
Isn't this particular brand of Christianity constantly in hope of the Apocalypse? They thirst for it, pray for it. If Trump is working in this direction, isn't that God would want? Especially since Trump is, they believe, God's agent on earth. Of course those Saved Souls will be raised up and transported to Heaven en bloc. To hell with those left behind.
21
It seems that many American Evangelical Christians thrill to the angry God of the Old Testament, the one who metes out violent collective punishment -- Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho, and the like. It is certainly more dramatic and emotionally satisfying than forgiveness and understanding. And that affinity goes well with authoritarian leaders.
120
What could be "more dramatic and emotionally satisfying than forgiveness and understanding"? Nothing, say the stories of the forgiven thief on the cross, the forgiven prodigal son, the forgiven woman caught in adultery--or the forgiven "greatest sinner," as St. Paul most ashamedly referred to himself. He also wrote, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself." That happens only through forgivness and understanding--the crux, the cross, of Christianity. That is what is most dramatic and most emotionally satisfying.
1
It is not what is preached though. The death and destruction is what they preach.
This sounds like a church Mike Pence would love to attend.
30
He could surely pray away all those latent gay feelings that surge up in him from time to time. Anyone who calls his wife "Mother" is a closet case.
2
Sorry Steven, I did enjoy your version of "Christianity" but it is not what I see and hear and interact with on a daily basis.
Too many Chino's justify any and everything by what they interpret their personal relationship with their god, book or leader to mean.
Funny they always seem to be the antitheses of what myself, an atheist, interpret the will of god to be.
While the ideals of this loving god are up for debate, I think mankind would be better off if this religion died out just as the other some 3000+ ones before it have done.
Too many Chino's justify any and everything by what they interpret their personal relationship with their god, book or leader to mean.
Funny they always seem to be the antitheses of what myself, an atheist, interpret the will of god to be.
While the ideals of this loving god are up for debate, I think mankind would be better off if this religion died out just as the other some 3000+ ones before it have done.
10
This Jeffress guy is just another blasphemous con man.
How could anyone believe this guy is God's confidant? He doesn't even practice the One True Religion. You know which one that is, right?
And who could be so stupid as to look to a con man for moral guidance anyway?
How could anyone believe this guy is God's confidant? He doesn't even practice the One True Religion. You know which one that is, right?
And who could be so stupid as to look to a con man for moral guidance anyway?
4
Forget Christianity, or any religion, for that matter. Forget those who have no religious beliefs, for those like Brendan Gill and Christopher Hitchens, who believed dead is dead, when humans die their expiration from this Earth faces the same Fate as that of a fruit fly. What the one thing we Seven Billion human beings living on this spinning blue marble should be aware of is that what we all share is our Humanity. We have existed for a very short time on this planet. Earth has survived for eons with intermittent spans of human occupants. It does need one of us to continue to do so. We are irrelevant. Knowing that, why not spend the very minute precious time we have in this world being the best possible species possible? Because, before you know it, even if you live to be a Hundred, it all goes by so fast. You're here one moment, then: POOF! you're gone.
DD
Manhattan
DD
Manhattan
14
Onward Christian Soldiers-
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/c081a.jpg
from the series, "Churches ad hoc",
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/churches.htm
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/c081a.jpg
from the series, "Churches ad hoc",
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/churches.htm
Jeffress is a mirror image of a radical Islamic Mulla using his theological podium to incite violence and jihad against a perceived enemy.
It is incumbent upon the parent organizations to disown, denounce, and when possible disenfranchise these menaces to peace, making them, and those who follow them pariahs within the traditions they claim to represent.
It is incumbent upon the parent organizations to disown, denounce, and when possible disenfranchise these menaces to peace, making them, and those who follow them pariahs within the traditions they claim to represent.
27
I hope your headline and article go viral. Here's another source that should go viral. "My Morning Offering" is an e-newsletter that may help others begin their day with what the word "Christianity" means. #MorningOffering
"Seen in this light, the vision of “fire and fury” should be taken very seriously and at face value, an apocalyptic statement resulting from a highly unorthodox theology with no basis in the Bible."
Not to mention that these words spoken more than 2000 yrs ago could not have even have imagined atomic or nuclear war. What did they have then? Sticks & stones? Only words could hurt them.
Not to mention that these words spoken more than 2000 yrs ago could not have even have imagined atomic or nuclear war. What did they have then? Sticks & stones? Only words could hurt them.
4
What I mean is that Christians (or for that matter, Muslims & Jews) who invoke theology, based on words from millenia ago are so non-contextual as to be absolutely irrelevant today. No desert clans/tribal father, like Abraham or Moses, could possibly have imagined atomic bombs or nuclear annihilation of the earth & all of its living habitants. Even Revelations with all its rhetoric & bombast did not know what it was talking about - in terms of today's technological capabilities.
It is more than high time to kick out evangelicals & other literal interpreters of ancient texts from positions of political power.
It is more than high time to kick out evangelicals & other literal interpreters of ancient texts from positions of political power.
1
Trump and Jeffress would like to think that Jeffress is the angel on Trump's right shoulder. But he's really hovering over there on the left shoulder, with all the immorality that that entails. Jeffress gives Christianity a bad name. He's a scourge of the kinder, gentler souls in Texas. He and Trump are two of a kind. With his most recent screed Jeffress is doing exactly what Trump does with his constant tweets -- appealing to his base.
9
Organized religion has been the Devil's most effective invention.
32
CS Lewis?
"Fire and Fury."
English translation of this Trump-speak:
"Double, double, toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble."
English translation of this Trump-speak:
"Double, double, toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble."
5
I am not surprised in the least that Mr. Jeffress is able to utilize the Bible as a tool to construct a demented scenario that provides cover for Mr. Trump. Why am I not surprised? Because the majority of voters who call themselves "evangelicals" were able to summon twisted, Bible-based rationalizations to give cover for them to vote for an absurdly unqualified and dangerous man to be President of the United States.
Evangelicalism should disappear down history's trash chute along with Republicanism. Evangelicals have earned the trip.
Evangelicalism should disappear down history's trash chute along with Republicanism. Evangelicals have earned the trip.
27
I think even more than that, they put a dress on a pig and called him a Christian. Trump (and any Narcissist) has to be one of the most amoral people in politics today, although he certainly has competition with McConnell and Ryan.
“Only good theology can debunk bad theology.” Yet, realization that all theology is bunk debunks both good and bad theology.
4
Mr. Jefress, a Christian theocrat, continues in the long tradition of the pseudo religious who give piety and spiritual practice a bad name. Most sects produce one or more persons like him, so in his violent speech and bigotry he is not unusual. Bad pennies can turn up anywhere.
What is unusual is that any President of the United States for the better part of the last 70 years has anything to do with our nation's Mr. Jeffress's. Trump has made the choice to consort with the apostles of a twisted Christianity, no one else.
"Fire and fury," and encouraging anyone to "take out" anyone is not Christianity or any legitimate religion. Christ pretty much had one commandment: "Love one another," and its famous corollary, "Love your enemy." To pitch these is to pitch the whole Christian project in the dumper. Mr. Trump and Mr. Jefress, then, cannot be Christians, but only a sad parody of those on a spiritual path.
What is unusual is that any President of the United States for the better part of the last 70 years has anything to do with our nation's Mr. Jeffress's. Trump has made the choice to consort with the apostles of a twisted Christianity, no one else.
"Fire and fury," and encouraging anyone to "take out" anyone is not Christianity or any legitimate religion. Christ pretty much had one commandment: "Love one another," and its famous corollary, "Love your enemy." To pitch these is to pitch the whole Christian project in the dumper. Mr. Trump and Mr. Jefress, then, cannot be Christians, but only a sad parody of those on a spiritual path.
8
If "God" wanted Kim Jong-un taken out, couldn't he just do that himself?
163
Beautiful. So obvious, now that you said it.
1
Right?! God has done any smiting for centuries, maybe it should be left to this angry Evangelical God.
1
I suspect Kelly A. Conway would/will describe the issue as 'alternative morals'
8
Using the bible as a reference for making rational decisions in the 21st Century is shockingly naive and irrational.
The bible is ancient writing for, and written by, ancient ignorant people.
The bible is ancient writing for, and written by, ancient ignorant people.
15
While the value of the premise of this article is arguable, the figures in the Bible who have been a source of wisdom to many cultures for many centuries are hardly "ancient ignorant people" On the other hand, the term "ignorant" can easily be applied to voices in the 21st century. Wisdom is hard come by in this age that worships technology and uses one-dimensional thinking for superficial, quick-fix solutions.
"there is no conceivable argument to be found in Christian scripture for threatening death and suffering on a huge scale." ???? Read your Old Testament, Mr. Paulikas
1
Selective reading of the Bible has been used by scoundrels throughout history to justify all sorts of despicable behaviors. Dr. Jeffress is following a long tradition established by political tools who are bold enough to claim they speak for God.
1
This article seems hugely redundant. Why on earth take seriously the comments of Mr. Jeffress on a subject that transcends sanity and amounts to counting angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin? My conclusion is that this is today's NY Times anti-Trump propaganda offered daily for public consumption. Propaganda takes many forms and the Times is using them all to promote its own agenda.
We take it seriously because the president listens to this and is persuaded by Jefferies. And the president is threatening nuclear war on that advice.
I think it is hysterical that people can use a book of largely unknown authorship to finalize sapien behavior in the 21st century. That Jeffress is a fool is obvious, but worse than that, he is a "snake oil salesman", who, through Trump-like arrogance and boisterous personality, preys off the naive, helpless aspects of society.
10
Whatever else may be said about the Abrahamic religions, I think we can all agree that each holy text, be it the Old Testament, New Testament, or Quran, contains a passage that can be used to justify one's point of view, whatever it may be. So it is here. The Reverend Paulikas can muster as many theologians from the past two millennia as he wishes. He won't change Pastor Jeffress's contention about the mind of their god.
1
"He won't change Pastor Jeffress's contention about the mind of their god." I am tempted to dismiss this comment as ironic and uninformed. I am sure that in two millennia, theologians can be found to change Mr. Jeffress's thesis. However, what is the point?
I agree with your summation of Pastor Jeffress. I have already said this, but it is worth repeating. Pastor Jeffress will be as far away from the front lines of any military action he is supporting or encouraging as is possible.
Neither Trump nor Pastor Jeffress are thinking about saving thousands or millions of innocent lives. I am not surprised about Trump's callousness or lack of empathy toward mankind in specific or in general, but what Christian tenets does Pastor Jeffress espouse other than the fire and brimstone ones found in the Old Testament?
A president tweeting and re-tweeting threats from a golf course and while on vacation shows greater hubris than even I thought Trump possessed. His actions could also be interpreted as evil. Evil can be a subjective viewpoint.
A mad man with absolute power, and a trigger finger, needs to be calmed Pastor, not enflamed. Millions of people within missile range of North Korea will agree with me, no doubt.
Neither Trump nor Pastor Jeffress are thinking about saving thousands or millions of innocent lives. I am not surprised about Trump's callousness or lack of empathy toward mankind in specific or in general, but what Christian tenets does Pastor Jeffress espouse other than the fire and brimstone ones found in the Old Testament?
A president tweeting and re-tweeting threats from a golf course and while on vacation shows greater hubris than even I thought Trump possessed. His actions could also be interpreted as evil. Evil can be a subjective viewpoint.
A mad man with absolute power, and a trigger finger, needs to be calmed Pastor, not enflamed. Millions of people within missile range of North Korea will agree with me, no doubt.
8
An odd commentary, considering you write about the most godless man in thought, word, and deed, in Washington.
You can try to straighten him out on the real meaning of the Bible, of Christianity, and he will simply not care. Because he doesn't believe any of it anyway.
You can try to straighten him out on the real meaning of the Bible, of Christianity, and he will simply not care. Because he doesn't believe any of it anyway.
4
I wish this type of Christianity would receive as much "press' as the Prosperity Gospel, the "End Times" obsession and the Westboro Baptist Church---mostly because it is a true reading of Christ's teachings, not distorted right wing political screeds that masquerade as Christianity.
10
Spot on re: Paul's LETTER to the Romans - consider the reader, not just the author. The most important thing to remember is Paul was writing to a pretty tough audience- these guys would later imprison and torture Paul. Then, HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED THE PLIGHT OF THE NORTH KOREAN PEOPLE IN THIS?? Jesus' primary concern would have been the People, not the 'ruling Caesar of the day'. Who on earth would ever consider killing millions of innocent, oppressed people in a preemptive nuclear strike? Well, his name isn't Jesus, that's for sure. Again and again with Trump; Nero fiddles while Rome burns. Read up on Nero; that dude was a despotic mess.
9
There was an obituary for a Mexican artist/writer in today's. NYT. I found it interesting that he had been excommunicated from the Catholic church for implying that Jesus was being exploited by man in his writings. But i have to say he nailed it. Jesus, and God are being exploited by men to further agendas driven by egos.
31
"Jesus, and God are being exploited by men to further agendas driven by egos."
This is news? This article is simply fuel for the standard religious and anti-religious platitudes of the day. It is useless. For those who are Christian, it is meaningless. It is useful only to those antagonized by religion or who want to use religion for political propaganda.
This is news? This article is simply fuel for the standard religious and anti-religious platitudes of the day. It is useless. For those who are Christian, it is meaningless. It is useful only to those antagonized by religion or who want to use religion for political propaganda.
It has always fascinated me that Evangelicals never cite this passage when a Democrat is President. Instead, when a Democrat is President, they cite the passage something like, "If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray..." god will restore the nation. At least in my experience, with George W. Bush, Obama, and, now, Trump, that's the way it's gone.
1
Jeffress is not a Christian; he is what might be called a "Christianist" or "nominal Christian." The touchstone for Christians in all things is the teachings of Christ in the Gospels, much of which is at odds even with other parts of the New Testament, esp. the human foibles of Paul (as in Romans and his other Epistles). Christianists are guided not by the Gospels; instead they actively and selectively distort the Bible to serve their own very worldly, very conventional, typically very nationalist, very capitalist, very white ideology. In other words, it is merely a cynical, pseudo-religious approbation of mainstream culture. Even the most cursory familiarity with the Gospels discredits their claims. Christianity will be best served when the Christianists split off so that they can openly and without hypocrisy worship their 'gods' - money, power, and status. As Gospel-based Christianity continues to reassert itself in the pursuit of the good in Christ's teachings, this seems inevitable, and is to be hoped for. Christianists/fundamentalists have probably done more to push people away from Christ and to shame him than any other group.
5
Warning: Religion can be dangerous for your health! Keep religion out of politics, and if these preachers refuse then take away the tax free status of their churches! Separation of Church and State!
9
there are many different version of Christianity and one can support any of them using the bible, which is full of contradictions. One can point to a god that hates anyone who doesn't obey it, to the point of commanding genocide all through the OT) and demanding that every non-believer is brought before it and killed (Luke 19) and one can point to a god that commands that the sick and the poor be taken care of. Since no Christian can show that their version is the right one there is no reason to believe any of it. They all create their god and religion in their own image.
4
First there was "shock and awe" and now "fire and fury" neither of which characterize anything said by Jesus. Why do so many supposed "bringers of the words of Christ" seem to believe that death and destruction are what underlies Christian belief and should be paramount to being a good christian?
4
An agnostic friend recently told me that, due to his early religious training, he had remained ever devoted to the Eight Beatitudes. This devotion was a major reason he abandoned the institutional religion of his youth. Isn't irony wonderful?
Perhaps Christians could profit from an in depth reflection on the beatitudes.
THE EIGHT BEATITUDES OF JESUS (WHICH HAVE NUMEROUS OLD TESTAMENT PRECURSORS)
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
Perhaps Christians could profit from an in depth reflection on the beatitudes.
THE EIGHT BEATITUDES OF JESUS (WHICH HAVE NUMEROUS OLD TESTAMENT PRECURSORS)
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
33
BRAVO. End of conversation.
Exactly!!
Hmm ... I am not sure. Ever since the primordial monotheism of the Ten Commandments split into numerous religions, each claiming that it is the only true one, the sword was joined to the cross and other symbols of faith.
2
Mr. Paulikas writes that "there is no possible Christian justification for provoking such a conflict." To the contrary, there is one: It is Mr. Jeffress’s. The correct response to Mr. Jeffress’s argument is not counter-citation and interpretation of Bible passages but recognition that Christianity has no moral authority; that if it ever had it, it is a spent authority today. As a matter of historical record, the number of wars Christianity has been used to justify is legion. And American Christianity depleted its authority as so many priests, pastors, and ministers mostly stood by or joined in as the right turned public Christianity into a religion of hate, a political force for intolerance of difference, and a disturbed, obsessive crusade to control and subjugate women by dictating what they can do with their bodies. Mr. Paulikas may be congratulated for attempting to set Christianity upon the right road, but it is a long, long road back where most who would agree are so sickened by that they have heard in God's name that they are no longer even willing to listen.
5
Jeffries' remarks underscore one of my favorite sayings: God save us from religion!
3
Jeffress would be wise to focus on Galatians 3:28, which is virtually the same in all Bible translations. According to the New Revised Standard Version:
"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." I'm sure that the verse today would include black or white or brown or yellow or red.....This is the message he should be advising Trump to embrace.
"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." I'm sure that the verse today would include black or white or brown or yellow or red.....This is the message he should be advising Trump to embrace.
17
One word: BRAVO!
We U.S. citizens have recently confronted the inanity of Trump vs. Kim, quickly followed by President Trump's initial ill-focused response to the sequence of horrors in Charlottesville.
Thomas Jefferson's words immediately came to mind when I first heard of the horrendous sequence of events in Charlottesville:
"[T]he people can not be all, & always, well informed. [The] part which is wrong . . . will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. [If we] remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public."
Jefferson implies that true patriots are those who can recognize lies, manipulation and misinformation for what they actually are. True patriots recognize and oppose tyranny whenever and however it reveals itself. They oppose both the rise of a would-be dictator and the mass tyranny inherent to the unreflective emotion and blind willfulness of the mob.
Jefferson was a man of the Enlightenment. Are those committed to the intellectual values of the Enlightenment hopelessly misguided? Should we give up the belief that humans, through education and through responsible dialogue and debate, can come to acknowledge that they themselves or others are uninformed, misinformed or illogical--and then take appropriate action?
Thomas Jefferson's words immediately came to mind when I first heard of the horrendous sequence of events in Charlottesville:
"[T]he people can not be all, & always, well informed. [The] part which is wrong . . . will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. [If we] remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public."
Jefferson implies that true patriots are those who can recognize lies, manipulation and misinformation for what they actually are. True patriots recognize and oppose tyranny whenever and however it reveals itself. They oppose both the rise of a would-be dictator and the mass tyranny inherent to the unreflective emotion and blind willfulness of the mob.
Jefferson was a man of the Enlightenment. Are those committed to the intellectual values of the Enlightenment hopelessly misguided? Should we give up the belief that humans, through education and through responsible dialogue and debate, can come to acknowledge that they themselves or others are uninformed, misinformed or illogical--and then take appropriate action?
4
"Only good theology can debunk bad theology." That's interesting news. My religious beliefs and thoughts are better than yours? Use a disease to cure a disease.
I'll have to share that with my non-christian friends and see what they say.
I'll have to share that with my non-christian friends and see what they say.
1
The inauguration was actually a wedding. The marriage of Donald and Robert was made in the heaven of their supporters. Understanding that version of heaven, is the only way to understand the current "perfect storm" where the warm air of self-righteousness meets the cold air of war.
This heaven is populated solely by the Donald/Jeffress extended family of decent, patriotic, "church-going" folks whose truth is in a particular book viewed through a particular lens. Since this "faith" is constantly at odds with love, it yields a schizophrenic life. This system flows from a schizophrenic god, created in the image of schizophrenic believers; a god at once, loving/vengeful; reasonable/nonsensical; the "Prince of Peace"/the god of war.
It is this schizophrenic god who is at the heart of the present nuclear standoff. This god created a beautiful planet and made mankind its custodian. This same god will destroy the planet when things get out of hand and then make a "new heaven and a new earth." Believers get to have it both ways: love and vengeance. They can nourish both the best and the worst in human nature, giving to a select group of "the poor" while hating the outsider and destroying the planet their god entrusted to them.
This insane theology is what is driving the current slide into an unimaginable holocaust. But for Donald, no theology is necessary. Like a petulant god, the only incentive he needs to destroy everything in his path is a threat to his omnipotence.
This heaven is populated solely by the Donald/Jeffress extended family of decent, patriotic, "church-going" folks whose truth is in a particular book viewed through a particular lens. Since this "faith" is constantly at odds with love, it yields a schizophrenic life. This system flows from a schizophrenic god, created in the image of schizophrenic believers; a god at once, loving/vengeful; reasonable/nonsensical; the "Prince of Peace"/the god of war.
It is this schizophrenic god who is at the heart of the present nuclear standoff. This god created a beautiful planet and made mankind its custodian. This same god will destroy the planet when things get out of hand and then make a "new heaven and a new earth." Believers get to have it both ways: love and vengeance. They can nourish both the best and the worst in human nature, giving to a select group of "the poor" while hating the outsider and destroying the planet their god entrusted to them.
This insane theology is what is driving the current slide into an unimaginable holocaust. But for Donald, no theology is necessary. Like a petulant god, the only incentive he needs to destroy everything in his path is a threat to his omnipotence.
2
To all those who claim that they have God on their side, e.g., Jeffress' statement “God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil,” I have the following questions.
Are you claiming that you are perfect? If you are not perfect, could you be mistaken in your understanding of what God wants? Are you saying that you and only you have the one and only true view on religion and morality? Are you really unwilling to consider that what you are doing in the name of God might in fact be evil?
The Devil does not wear horns and carry a pitchfork. He wears wings and looks like an angel, with seductive words to lure us into temptation and evil.
Are you claiming that you are perfect? If you are not perfect, could you be mistaken in your understanding of what God wants? Are you saying that you and only you have the one and only true view on religion and morality? Are you really unwilling to consider that what you are doing in the name of God might in fact be evil?
The Devil does not wear horns and carry a pitchfork. He wears wings and looks like an angel, with seductive words to lure us into temptation and evil.
10
Jefress is a prime example of those who should NOT be representing a faith that so many follow. Full disclosure, I am an Atheist, but find the teachings of Jesus to honor the best in a person's heart and actions. Christ did promote war. He did not proclaim his "father" as a god of war. And though many hear their hearts or consciences guided by the spiritual beliefs they hold, a true believer would admit that war and causing death is a choice made by the human heart, not instruction from a divine being. For those who are led by false prophets, they too have a choice. As real as the choice that ISIS members have. You can be Christian, or Muslim. Or you can distort your faith to suit the need for some misguided fire and fury to satisfy a human need to prevail over others. In this case, perhaps a working State Department skilled in Diplomacy might be the better way to avoid destruction for us all.
2
Ooops...typo in my my heartfelt message...Christ did NOT (I repeat, NOT) promote war!
2
Christianity justified crusades, inquisitions, slavery, colonization, imperialism, genocide, reservations, white supremacy, misogyny, war, xenophobia, money loving, pride and ghettoes.
Contrary to the known most beloved of Jesus including the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the sick, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned and the despairing depressed who were promised a place in Heaven. See Matthew 25:31-46.
Unlike too many so-called 'Christians' Jesus wondered 'who men said that he was' and wondered if he could escape his date with death on the cross and wondered why his Father God had forsaken hum. While one disciple betrayed him and the others hid and cowered in fear three women who knew the living Jesus all, named Mary were at the cross, the empty tomb and the risen resurrected Jesus.
The problem with Christianity as Mahatma Gandhi wryly noted was how few Christians were like Christ. Jesus had doubts and fears. Jesus felt and knew our pains and pleasures. Jesus knew our temptations.
Contrary to the known most beloved of Jesus including the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the sick, the thirsty, the naked, the imprisoned and the despairing depressed who were promised a place in Heaven. See Matthew 25:31-46.
Unlike too many so-called 'Christians' Jesus wondered 'who men said that he was' and wondered if he could escape his date with death on the cross and wondered why his Father God had forsaken hum. While one disciple betrayed him and the others hid and cowered in fear three women who knew the living Jesus all, named Mary were at the cross, the empty tomb and the risen resurrected Jesus.
The problem with Christianity as Mahatma Gandhi wryly noted was how few Christians were like Christ. Jesus had doubts and fears. Jesus felt and knew our pains and pleasures. Jesus knew our temptations.
75
Christianity, monotheism, religion in general when it comes to weapons of mass destruction?
I do not see religion as compatible with technological advance period, the human future. Religious people can talk all they want about science not having all the answers to life, that atheists know as little about the mystery behind existence as the religious do so they have no right to criticize the faith of the religious, but the fact is the religious, particularly the monotheistic, have an outlook on life which has some people classed as evil and that the good will be saved after death, which of course is a terrible outlook to have when technology, particularly of weapons of mass destruction, comes into the picture.
The religious view of life is not only one which conduces to seeing other humans as enemies but is one which declares that the good person will be saved after death, which is to say weapons of mass destruction are not really taken seriously: A true believer in possession of such a weapon is quite likely to use it because he himself is considered saved; he uses it against evil, but if he gets destroyed fighting against evil, well he is saved after death.
The atheist or agnostic view is far superior than the religious as technology advances, is much more compatible with advance of humanity. The atheist view is less likely to result in viewing others as enemies and the atheist knows there is no salvation after death for even slight mistakes with technology.
I do not see religion as compatible with technological advance period, the human future. Religious people can talk all they want about science not having all the answers to life, that atheists know as little about the mystery behind existence as the religious do so they have no right to criticize the faith of the religious, but the fact is the religious, particularly the monotheistic, have an outlook on life which has some people classed as evil and that the good will be saved after death, which of course is a terrible outlook to have when technology, particularly of weapons of mass destruction, comes into the picture.
The religious view of life is not only one which conduces to seeing other humans as enemies but is one which declares that the good person will be saved after death, which is to say weapons of mass destruction are not really taken seriously: A true believer in possession of such a weapon is quite likely to use it because he himself is considered saved; he uses it against evil, but if he gets destroyed fighting against evil, well he is saved after death.
The atheist or agnostic view is far superior than the religious as technology advances, is much more compatible with advance of humanity. The atheist view is less likely to result in viewing others as enemies and the atheist knows there is no salvation after death for even slight mistakes with technology.
1
It is only natural that a "godless" man like Trump would take up with the Neo-Christian movement called the Evangelical right. This crowd has carefully picked out enough supporting Biblical passages to promote their money hungry program of "success theology." One need only examine the life styles of their leaders and count the sports cars ,limousines, mansions, aircraft etc to understand why Trump has been enveloped into their camp. Have you heard any of their voices condemning the actions in Virginia?
7
Mr Paulikas engages in a laudable attempt in his argument, but ultimately it fails for the very reason which he states in his piece. He frames the question, as bad theology should be countered by good theology, yet this premise underlines the very problem with the Bible and religion in general. Jeffers uses the book of Romans to justify Trump's use of nuclear power or other military efforts to start a war, Mr Paulikas counters with Barth's argument that Romans does not stand for such a proposition. Herein lies the problem with both arguments, the Bible can be cited to justify just about any position you want. Everything from slavery, to genocide, the Crusades, and all variety of wars and injustices , have been given biblical justification and therefore have fallen under God's imprimatur. I am not a Believer, but I have studied the Bible for many years, and it does not give me any type of consistency with regard to dealing with the affairs of men. Conservatives find the parts that justify their agenda, while liberals do the same, while ignoring all the other parts which do not support their agenda. Perhaps both parties could go back to the simple idea of do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and then judge all actions of politicians and others through this very simple idea.
1
My concern is that this is not about Pastor Jeffress' theology--it is about politics. Many of my faith see the "solutions" to the problems of this world in politics rather than in living out a Christian witness. I say that advisedly because I don't know their hearts. "The Christian Right" is, in my view, mostly about being on "the Right" and much less about being "Christian." On the other hand, we're all God's children.
1
Alas, far too many fundamentalist Protestant Christians--and Catholics of a fundamentalist and authoritarian disposition--are casting away their rich inheritance and for what? Nothing more than a bowl of right-wing political pottage.
When will self-styled "Christians" start focusing on the actual words of the Jesus of the Gospels, rather than falling prey to the political machinations of their "religious" leaders?
Jesus called all to a reflective life of redemption through the love of God and neighbor (even the love of Samaritans and one's enemies!), charity for all, self-sacrifice and a keen sense of social justice.
Those who identify as Christians on the basis of what they oppose are reverting to tribalism and destroying the credibility of the Christ's own universalist message.
The entire world stands to lose by this demeaning of Christ's Gospel of charity and hope.
Far too many "Christians" are now preaching a creed that idolizes individualistic capitalist greed and fear of the "Other".
As a result, the potentially ennobling contributions of Christianity, due to the "brand's" association with the unreflective and mean-spirited, are being laughed into insignificance.
For whom do today's "Christians" actually stand? For Christ or for the Anti-Christ and the forces of Mammon?
When will self-styled "Christians" start focusing on the actual words of the Jesus of the Gospels, rather than falling prey to the political machinations of their "religious" leaders?
Jesus called all to a reflective life of redemption through the love of God and neighbor (even the love of Samaritans and one's enemies!), charity for all, self-sacrifice and a keen sense of social justice.
Those who identify as Christians on the basis of what they oppose are reverting to tribalism and destroying the credibility of the Christ's own universalist message.
The entire world stands to lose by this demeaning of Christ's Gospel of charity and hope.
Far too many "Christians" are now preaching a creed that idolizes individualistic capitalist greed and fear of the "Other".
As a result, the potentially ennobling contributions of Christianity, due to the "brand's" association with the unreflective and mean-spirited, are being laughed into insignificance.
For whom do today's "Christians" actually stand? For Christ or for the Anti-Christ and the forces of Mammon?
17
'Those who live by the sword will perish by the sword.' I love Christ. It is Christians that I cannot stand, or words to that effect, were uttered by a great man, who is respected as the Father of my nation. Why do we arrive at weird positions of nationalistic hubris, by moving away from Christ's central, clear message of love and tolerance, to focus on ambivalent and often contradictory passages from all the other books in the Bible? By ducking our heads in these erudite sands, are we not shying away from Christ's radical and almost impossibly idealistic message focusing on peace and the poor? is it any wonder that a non-christian Gandhi was more christian than many nominally Christian pastors and preachers?
15
"Sell all that you have and give to the poor." "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
The synoptic gospels are in agreement that these thoughts, in more or less these words, were stated by Jesus whom Christians believe to be Devine.
This is the ideal. Almost no one can reach it. God may choose to forgive the shortcomings, but not the hubris of billionaires or the false preachers who partake in and feed the poisonous fruit of Mammon.
The synoptic gospels are in agreement that these thoughts, in more or less these words, were stated by Jesus whom Christians believe to be Devine.
This is the ideal. Almost no one can reach it. God may choose to forgive the shortcomings, but not the hubris of billionaires or the false preachers who partake in and feed the poisonous fruit of Mammon.
7
"Only good theology can debunk bad theology."
For an argument over theology to have any effect at all, both sides must abide by a commitment to logic and rational discourse. Unfortunately, Mr. Jeffress is part of a theological movement that has untethered from reason and is dedicated to marshalling power only. He and his ilk can say anything they wish in service of their quest for power, because power has become the ultimate moral quantity. With power, these fanatics imagine they will be able to cleanse their world of any and all evil. And to them evil is anything that disagrees with their worldview.
You can't discuss theology with such people, discourse will never change their minds, good theology is by definition bad theology if it doesn't correspond with their righteous beliefs, their esteem in the eyes of their Lord is measured in terms of how resistant they are to bad theology, or the strength of their faith in their positions.
And unfortunately for you , Mr. Paulikas, this trend is largely a reflection of Christianity's discomfort with the amoral nature of democracy. The idea of separation of church and state is to leave moral consideration to church and work out practical matters through informed (morally grounded) citizen governance using rational discourse to determine policy. But we now have a substantial sector of self-identifying Christian voters who reject rational governance in favor of righteous power, confusing government's amoral stance with immorality.
For an argument over theology to have any effect at all, both sides must abide by a commitment to logic and rational discourse. Unfortunately, Mr. Jeffress is part of a theological movement that has untethered from reason and is dedicated to marshalling power only. He and his ilk can say anything they wish in service of their quest for power, because power has become the ultimate moral quantity. With power, these fanatics imagine they will be able to cleanse their world of any and all evil. And to them evil is anything that disagrees with their worldview.
You can't discuss theology with such people, discourse will never change their minds, good theology is by definition bad theology if it doesn't correspond with their righteous beliefs, their esteem in the eyes of their Lord is measured in terms of how resistant they are to bad theology, or the strength of their faith in their positions.
And unfortunately for you , Mr. Paulikas, this trend is largely a reflection of Christianity's discomfort with the amoral nature of democracy. The idea of separation of church and state is to leave moral consideration to church and work out practical matters through informed (morally grounded) citizen governance using rational discourse to determine policy. But we now have a substantial sector of self-identifying Christian voters who reject rational governance in favor of righteous power, confusing government's amoral stance with immorality.
8
All matters of faith--and institutional religions, private spirituality, agnosticism and atheism are all, ultimately, matters of faith--should be approached from a pragmatist perspective. Expanding on a notion articulated by Charles Sanders Peirce: A belief is a proposition which one holds to be true in the sense that it actually guides one's actions and expectations. Thus we should, as many religious teachers have said, attend more to what we do, rather than what we say. We should attempt to formulate our belief systems as consistently as possible, not the better to prove to others that we have all the answers, but rather to prepare ourselves for the surprising facts of experience and human interaction that might lead us to question and revise our former beliefs. This is the way of growth and of life.
As I age, I find it far more important to reflectively question my beliefs, rather than to proclaim that I have all the answers. Doubt, a spur to the asking of authentic questions, is a key aspect of human wellbeing.
Whether we are religious, personally spiritual, agnostic or atheist it is important to be faithful to the ethics implicit in our beliefs, but also to remain open to the mystery inherent to our individual and communal memories, experiences and expectations.
Religion at its best calls us to an individual and communal participation in the mystery of human existence--a mystery that the non-religious also apprehend and in which they can also reflectively participate.
As I age, I find it far more important to reflectively question my beliefs, rather than to proclaim that I have all the answers. Doubt, a spur to the asking of authentic questions, is a key aspect of human wellbeing.
Whether we are religious, personally spiritual, agnostic or atheist it is important to be faithful to the ethics implicit in our beliefs, but also to remain open to the mystery inherent to our individual and communal memories, experiences and expectations.
Religion at its best calls us to an individual and communal participation in the mystery of human existence--a mystery that the non-religious also apprehend and in which they can also reflectively participate.
5
Conservative Christians have been misinterpreting the Bible to fit their worldview for dedcades. It's what they do.
41
Trump does not appear to be persuaded by any theology, philosophy, or person. He gladly accepts support from any quarter: so-called religious leaders, conservative anarchists, Putin, KKK affiliates, neo-Nazis. He has no principles, no policy, no program except to overturn everything Obama accomplished. Trump bullies anyone he thinks is vulnerable because he is an insecure and bellicose man, not because he is encouraged by his political allies.
34
Yes. Moral values of good will towards others underlay the constitution and even our politics. To most of us this idea still seems necessary if our nation is to thrive. The Christian ideal from the bible “Love your neighbor as yourself,” helped grow America, even though we most often failed in this ideal. Secular we may be, but most of our laws and government are still based on the values we learned from the bible.
1
Why does the media always put all Christians under the category of fundamentalist megachurch types? Nothing could be farther from the truth. Many Christians have spoken out against Trump long before the election.
44
operacoach
An odd comment, considering how many of the biggest yaps in American Christendom can't stop from themselves from throwing all Muslims onto the same trash heap, refusing to recognize that many are bigger victims of fake Islam than we are.
When you can beyond that ridiculously close-minded approach maybe we can talk.
But since you haven't yet let me ask, where are the 'good' Christians. When will they take it out of their secluded sanctuaries into the streets and take back their 'real' religion?
An odd comment, considering how many of the biggest yaps in American Christendom can't stop from themselves from throwing all Muslims onto the same trash heap, refusing to recognize that many are bigger victims of fake Islam than we are.
When you can beyond that ridiculously close-minded approach maybe we can talk.
But since you haven't yet let me ask, where are the 'good' Christians. When will they take it out of their secluded sanctuaries into the streets and take back their 'real' religion?
6
You are totally incorrect, IMO. The "media" does not put all Christians in any specific category. In fact, this article specifically talks about Christians (true followers of Jesus teachings) vs "Christians" who claim the name but not the behavior. Please don't succumb to the Bill O'Reilly argument of a "war on Christians."
3
People, media types included, have a tendency to reinforce instead of question their pet stereotypes.
"Only good theology can debunk bad theology." Really? I think atheism effectively debunks it even better, even though it also denies the existence of 'good' theology. Do we really need to keep looking for wisdom in bronze-age mythologies in the 21st century?
97
With respect, I think the words immediately prior to that quote are essential to the concept: "an intellectually and morally superior argument on the same terrain." Every worldview is built on certain cornerstone assumptions (Christianity, for example, assumes that God exists and there is some amount of authority/truth in the Bible), and it seems to me that Paulikas is saying that within each worldview community, a bad theology is best combatted by a good theology that still shares some of those assumptions. Without a common ground, a shared cornerstone, it is immeasurably more difficult to change hearts and minds. Those shared assumptions (or, in other cases, identities) will be there to bind opposing sides when, in the course of your argument, you are tearing away the other person's constructions. Hence, more thoughtful and theologically sound Christians may be the best equipped to address someone like Jeffress (or at least the people who agree with him).
At the risk of sounding too presumptuous, I would add that there seems to be a crisis of morality in every worldview/religion in America right now, including atheism. The flip side of my above point is that I, a self-identifying Christian, may not always be the best equipped to address these crises in other groups. It will take a broad coalition, united by a few basic moral precepts, to address the wide-ranging sicknesses of fear, depression, and tribalism.
At the risk of sounding too presumptuous, I would add that there seems to be a crisis of morality in every worldview/religion in America right now, including atheism. The flip side of my above point is that I, a self-identifying Christian, may not always be the best equipped to address these crises in other groups. It will take a broad coalition, united by a few basic moral precepts, to address the wide-ranging sicknesses of fear, depression, and tribalism.
24
I think there is a need in the species for a belief in something after death be it heaven and hell or some new age your essence being set free.
With an awareness of self and understanding that death is inevitable, our psyche's rebel at the thought of nothingness so we create beliefs that address our questions and fears.
I am no fan of religions and I'm disgusted at how many wars have happened over a difference in religion. I do not trust those who claim to speak for god. I find it incredibly arrogant when someone expresses their belief in absolute terms. However, I do get the need for something to believe happens when we die. It's important
With an awareness of self and understanding that death is inevitable, our psyche's rebel at the thought of nothingness so we create beliefs that address our questions and fears.
I am no fan of religions and I'm disgusted at how many wars have happened over a difference in religion. I do not trust those who claim to speak for god. I find it incredibly arrogant when someone expresses their belief in absolute terms. However, I do get the need for something to believe happens when we die. It's important
2
There are those who misunderstand science because they don't respect it. There are those who misunderstand religion because they don't respect it. Very often those who misunderstand both science and religion are one and the same person. Very often that person calls himself an atheist. I just call it a lack of respect.
1
The most pre-eminent Bible passage is I John, 4:8, "God is Love." Any Christian who advocates violence over love, demonstrates a profound lack of faith in God's love.
There is also the issue of the "fire and brimstone" cadre vs. those who truly understand Jesus's message. The former seem stuck in the Old Testament which more easily justifies their hatreds.
The game changer was Jesus's death on the cross. At that moment an earthquake struck Jerusalem, renting the curtain that separated the Holy of Holies in the Temple from the rest of the building, indicating that the old ways as depicted in the Old Testament no longer applied. That God's love was sufficient.
Those steeped in a temporal world, like Robert Jeffress, aren't depicting God's love. They are usurping God's authority. Their egos have become so inflamed that they believe they are standing in for God, but are interpreting the Bible according to their agendas.
Thanks to Steven Paulikas for unearthing yet another Biblical example of God's love.
It's quite the conundrum for God, Jesus and Christianity, when those guided by hate claim to represent.
There is also the issue of the "fire and brimstone" cadre vs. those who truly understand Jesus's message. The former seem stuck in the Old Testament which more easily justifies their hatreds.
The game changer was Jesus's death on the cross. At that moment an earthquake struck Jerusalem, renting the curtain that separated the Holy of Holies in the Temple from the rest of the building, indicating that the old ways as depicted in the Old Testament no longer applied. That God's love was sufficient.
Those steeped in a temporal world, like Robert Jeffress, aren't depicting God's love. They are usurping God's authority. Their egos have become so inflamed that they believe they are standing in for God, but are interpreting the Bible according to their agendas.
Thanks to Steven Paulikas for unearthing yet another Biblical example of God's love.
It's quite the conundrum for God, Jesus and Christianity, when those guided by hate claim to represent.
37
Urge that this essay be distributed broadly and that it be discussed in thought provoking forums on TV and other mass media places. Thank you.
39
I worry these wise and measured words won't reach those who need to hear them most, but thank you nonetheless for writing them.
101
• Regardless of his political credentials, Jeffress’s theology is shockingly uninformed and dangerous, and it is a sobering reminder of the power of misguided moral statements to influence matters of life and death in policy.
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
~ JOHN ADAMS
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
~ THOMAS JEFFERSON
"The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
~ ABRAHAM LINCOLN
"What has been Christianity’s fruits? Superstition, Bigotry and Persecution."
~ JAMES MADISON
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man."
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
~ THOMAS PAINE