Oh. Wait! I thought Canada was utopian paradise that had it all so right?
1
This system of taking advantage of the poor is not restricted to Canada. But as a Canadian I find it a repulsive practice to favour the interests of the business class. Shameful.
4
That's why these scared Middle Easterns can cross the border from the US. Lots of cheap labor then. As per the Canadian saying "Business is business."
2
Canada is going to be in for a big surprise, since they removed the visas before entering the country for citizens from Mexico. When the word spreads, Canada will be overwhelmed by hundreds of thousands of Mexicans entering illegally or overstaying their visits. I am not happy about it. I don't want Canada to look like some parts of the US.
5
'' Advocacy groups point out that the federal government’s oversight authority is limited because provinces and territories are responsible for enforcing health, labor and workplace safety standards for the workers ..''
I would only point out in a slight defense to the article that in B:C: ( Summerland in the article ) the provincial government just switched form a right to left government. We shall see ( especially because of the article ) if there are any serious changes made.
We need to do better to hold businesses accountable.
I would only point out in a slight defense to the article that in B:C: ( Summerland in the article ) the provincial government just switched form a right to left government. We shall see ( especially because of the article ) if there are any serious changes made.
We need to do better to hold businesses accountable.
1
The federal government and the provincial governments know better than this. This is simply unacceptable.
3
Mexico remained an agricultural economy until recently. Farmers had many children to work in the fields. Education was not a priority.
Now that Mexico is being pulled into the modern economy, it finds itself with too many people, most of whom have had little education.
Until Mexico makes artificial birth control inexpensive and readily available to lower its population growth, ends monopolies and government corruption, and better educates its entire population (not just the children of the well-off), its people will be at a disadvantage.
Now that Mexico is being pulled into the modern economy, it finds itself with too many people, most of whom have had little education.
Until Mexico makes artificial birth control inexpensive and readily available to lower its population growth, ends monopolies and government corruption, and better educates its entire population (not just the children of the well-off), its people will be at a disadvantage.
12
Until the Catholic church and their anti-birth control stance no longer has a voice in Latin American politics........you mean..........
7
This is a poor article, which takes the opinion of immigration lawyers, who by the way are mainly paid by the Canadian government so it's in their interest to promote a one sided conversation. Truth is, these workers agree to come to Canada for temporary work at wages that they could not match in their home countries. Many work seasonal jobs which support their families for an entire year. Foreign workers are treated the same as Canadian workers and follow the same regulations for human rights. Canadian business apply for foreign worker permits and offer contracts to each foreign worker. They know they must return home after their work term is complete. Why should they get a leg up on immigration, if they want to immigrate they should follow the same process as all applicants. Their visas are for temporary work by a foreign national, not as an immigrant.
2
Or Canada could send them all back to America, ur I mean, Mexico.
3
Um.... say what? I thought that Canada was the newly-discovered promised land for, you know, the huddled masses?
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I know, right? They're so much better than the US.
1
To All the Canadian NYT readers:
Hopefully theCanadian one payer health system isn't on par with the Immigration Work Program....
Hopefully theCanadian one payer health system isn't on par with the Immigration Work Program....
3
If this article wasn't so concerning I would have a good laugh at the comments so far. Yes JET III we do share some similar problems but make no mistake we are not the same. Lack of universal medical care, voter suppression, separation of church and state, and a disdain for an educated population are not shared issues with Canada. I live in farm country. On the weekend I and several migrant workers were considering expensive bike purchases in the local hardware store. Every weekend I see the buses pull into town with eager migrant shoppers.To think these gentleman are living in deplorable conditions concerns me greatly. I will be writing to my local MPP for a provincial inquiry.
2
Yes. Big Business always seems to dictate public policy no matter where you are in the world. I recall that after Trump spoke against migrant workers in California - he had to dial it back - as the major farm producers in the region - who rely heavily on cheap, exploitable labor - were very upset (eg. see NY Times: "California Farmers Backed Trump, but Now Fear Losing Field Workers"). These farms/corporations which are often multi-national conglomerates -argue that Americans want cheap food and therefore it justifies this arrangement. Alas, it seems that even friendly Canada is subject to it too.
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A lot of anecdotal evidence signifying, in sum, nothing.
2
Answer is simple. Tighten up immigration, and watch food prices assume their rightful level. Technology will then begin to take over the more menial tasks.
7
I'm Canadian, and live near Summerland, mentioned in this story. I worked for several summers at a winery alongside Mexicans who were employed through this program and it is absolutely true that the program is exploitative and that workers have little recourse to address violations, for fear of being sent home or getting a bad review and then not being hired the following season. The Mexicans I worked with worked two to three times as fast as local workers, yet were paid less and did not get the same annual raises that locals had in the past. They were put in extremely overcrowded housing and when told to work 12 hour days for 7 days a week (farms aren't required to pay time and a half for overtime) had no real way to refuse, because of the fears outlined in this article. It is ridiculous that the tip line, etc. are not in Spanish; where I worked, not a single supervisor spoke even elementary Spanish. Many of my Mexican coworkers had been coming to Canada to work under this program for 20+ years, up to 8 months a year, doing jobs that few here will do, yet they can't immigrate and obtain citizenship rights, as they are considered "unskilled" workers (these jobs at that pace and those hours require much skill though). And unlike British or Australian citizens who can get a temporary work visa that lets them quit and switch jobs, look for the best offer, etc. Mexicans can only work for the one employer that requested them, resulting in a total power imbalance.
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Well what you are referencing sounds like a policy for migrant workers from non English speaking or Spanish speaking countries that the Canadian government put into place to exploit.
Let's see how quick the Canadian government at all levels reacts and if the New York Times will have follow up coverage.
Let's see how quick the Canadian government at all levels reacts and if the New York Times will have follow up coverage.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Canada is far less different from the United States than either Canadians or the American liberal fantasy insists.
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As a Canadian who lived in the US for six years, I'd say we're a lot different, even if those differences can be subtle. Have you ever lived in Canada?
Certainly Canada is flawed, like all countries -- as Canadians are only too well aware.
By the way, though we have had a general temporary worker program for decades, it was the Conservative government of Stephen Harper that ramped it up and removed any real protections for the workers.
The older agricultural program does have some protections, which the governments of the sending countries are meant to monitor and help enforce, but yes, it has the major flaw of allowing employers to send workers home when they are being abused, or are ill, unless the foreign governments intervene.
Still, compare this to the US's Bracero program of the 60s and 70s, where the Mexican temporary workers in Texas, and perhaps other states, were so abused that the Mexican government finally had to pull the plug on it.
Certainly Canada is flawed, like all countries -- as Canadians are only too well aware.
By the way, though we have had a general temporary worker program for decades, it was the Conservative government of Stephen Harper that ramped it up and removed any real protections for the workers.
The older agricultural program does have some protections, which the governments of the sending countries are meant to monitor and help enforce, but yes, it has the major flaw of allowing employers to send workers home when they are being abused, or are ill, unless the foreign governments intervene.
Still, compare this to the US's Bracero program of the 60s and 70s, where the Mexican temporary workers in Texas, and perhaps other states, were so abused that the Mexican government finally had to pull the plug on it.
3
That's a bit of a conceit, eh?
Canadians as individuals are very like Americans, culturally and in language and most other ways -- including being moderately conservative. It is their GOVERNMENT which by design is much more hard left than the population, that has skewed things like gay marriage and immigration there.
I assure you, if Canada were overrun as the US is, with 25 million illegal aliens (or proportionate to their population as ours is)......they would be just as outraged and angry, to see their jobs stolen, their social services taken by foreigners and taxes not paid, etc.
I assure you, if Canada were overrun as the US is, with 25 million illegal aliens (or proportionate to their population as ours is)......they would be just as outraged and angry, to see their jobs stolen, their social services taken by foreigners and taxes not paid, etc.
1
Since the Trump administration has started deporting those from other countries not legally here, the same is happening in Canada. The bigger question is who is going to be harvesting grapes, apples and many other crops in the U.S once harvest season is upon us.
1
Pay people a decent wage and provide decent working conditions, and you will have no problems finding workers.
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How about other recently landed immigrants without many skills or education?
They need jobs too.
They need jobs too.
4
Harvests will be gathered by guest workers with temporary visas as it used to be.
3
These workers should claim to be refugees from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc. and I am sure that they would then have no problems and be welcomed with open arms.
Migrants from Mexico? Not a chance.
Migrants from Mexico? Not a chance.
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Most of the big cities in Canada especially Toronto and Montreal look like Middle Eastern ghettos with refugees who are little more than economic migrants being welcomed with open arms.
1
What? Canada is NOT perfect?
Why don't they just allow them and their extended family members to stay in the country?
Well, at least they enforce their immigration laws.
Why don't they just allow them and their extended family members to stay in the country?
Well, at least they enforce their immigration laws.
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Canada does not enforce the provisions of its Temporary Foreign Workers program, which leads to abuses by recruiters and employers.
1
*shrug* If you don't like the conditions of the program, feel free to go find jobs in your home country.
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It's no different in the U.S. http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-cente...
2
We have the same issues in the US. There will always be business owners who exploit their workers. The program should be self-supporting that when a farmer requests seasonal farm workers, he pays a fee and has to prove he has adequate accommodations for them. The workers should be given hotline numbers when they arrive so they can report discrepancies in the promises to what is actually delivered. Most farm workers are treated fairly in that they know they are here for very hard work, but they will be compensated as agreed. Then there are a few who will take the opportunity to cheat the workers which should be self-defeating. The next year aren't they short of workers who know them to be dishonest and won't work there? The law should protect the farm workers especially since they are there legally.
8
So much for Trudeau's "friendly and open neighbor" policy...above all, be "politically correct" even if reality is often apallingly different...
22
I just returned from a week in Vancouver and was impressed by the general cheerfulness of the people compared to the US. They probably have less hanging over their heads: health care, tuition, etc are covered. Violent crime is low. So I was disappointed to read this article about mistreatment of foreign workers.
7
I guess you didn't have time to visit Downtown Eastside. Not a particularly "cheerful" area.
5
Obviously they must be terrible people now, and shame on you for spending money in such a fascist country that doesn't check off every box in the fantasy utopia in your head.
downtown east side is the worst neighborhood in Canada, by far. There are plenty of reasons for that. But I ha little doubt that any of those causes would be better treated in the US. Do you really need an illustration?
1
There is a simple solution here: put up the wages on these jobs so that locals apply for them.
The temporary foreign worker program should be scrapped.
It's a corporate subsidy, and it's not just an issue in the farm community.
The argument is that local people don't want these jobs, so they have to bring in people from overseas.
Actually, the problem is that the corporations refuse to pay a living wage.
If they did, there would be plenty of applicants.
This is the sort of program that leads to all sorts of trouble, and the complaining of the migrant workers is among the least important.
Wages need to go up - way up.
The reason the West is struggling with deflation, finds itself mired in debt and zero interest rates, is because of programs like this.
The temporary foreign worker program should be scrapped.
It's a corporate subsidy, and it's not just an issue in the farm community.
The argument is that local people don't want these jobs, so they have to bring in people from overseas.
Actually, the problem is that the corporations refuse to pay a living wage.
If they did, there would be plenty of applicants.
This is the sort of program that leads to all sorts of trouble, and the complaining of the migrant workers is among the least important.
Wages need to go up - way up.
The reason the West is struggling with deflation, finds itself mired in debt and zero interest rates, is because of programs like this.
22
The Times recently published an article on labor shortages in the Hamptons - check it out to find out why you are wrong.
While you admit that the program is for temporary workers you are aghast at the prospect of Canada actually following its laws.
20
Canada does NOT follow its laws- it allows employers and recruiters to break the law and exploit vulnerable workers. THAT is the problem.
2
I wonder what would happen if these workers decided enough was enough, and no one came to pick the crops? Despite common beliefs, harvesting produce is not as easy as it sounds. You must have speed, method and pride in what you do. The days are long and dusty in most cases. These people stop showing up and all of a sudden $10 avocados, strawberries costing three to four times the usual and worse. I find it disgusting that we have not yet evolved past the point of exploiting each other without a grain of shame.
11
What you say is true. Calling this kind of labor "unskilled" is incorrect. Those who come from Mexico and other countries to harvest the crops in Canada and the US have years of experience and are highly skilled. It is back breaking, difficult work and I defy anyone who has not done it to do it without whining and crying "foul" when offered the low wages and substandard living conditions these workers have to accept.
The writer who says workers should stay in their own countries and find work if they don't like the conditions in North America does not understand these workers are here for two reasons: there is little work in their own countries and the food producers in North America cannot survive without the workers help.
The writer who says workers should stay in their own countries and find work if they don't like the conditions in North America does not understand these workers are here for two reasons: there is little work in their own countries and the food producers in North America cannot survive without the workers help.
16
Both Barbara and Bill have only one thing right: agricultural work is hard and skilled. But if you value it so much, pay the workers something that allows them to survive and gives them the dignity you claim the work deserves. That's what they do with big rig drivers and at sewage treatment plants. Those jobs require skill and are just as unpleasant, but the wages and benefits make it worthwhile to the Americans doing it.
As far as $10, avocados, grow your own. You can get a tree for $20 and it will give you fruit the rest of your life. And you'll know where it comes from and have the dignity of eating something you made. Or you can pay the $10 knowing that a fellow American can feed his family thanks to his labors, just like you did. That's how equality works.
And as to the reasons they come, who cares? Most of the countries south of our border are democracies. If their governments are not serving them, they should change them until they get the governments they want. That's why you want us to march against Trump every five minutes, right? Why don't they do the same? If you think the legacy of the once and mighty Aztecs is sneaking past a fence to clean my toilet, I don't respect you. So your rights don't matter. Go home and tell your politicians you won't put up with them anymore. If you won't, it's not my problem.
If you want to join the melting pot for any other reason, follow the rules. And melt. Make sure to melt a little.
As far as $10, avocados, grow your own. You can get a tree for $20 and it will give you fruit the rest of your life. And you'll know where it comes from and have the dignity of eating something you made. Or you can pay the $10 knowing that a fellow American can feed his family thanks to his labors, just like you did. That's how equality works.
And as to the reasons they come, who cares? Most of the countries south of our border are democracies. If their governments are not serving them, they should change them until they get the governments they want. That's why you want us to march against Trump every five minutes, right? Why don't they do the same? If you think the legacy of the once and mighty Aztecs is sneaking past a fence to clean my toilet, I don't respect you. So your rights don't matter. Go home and tell your politicians you won't put up with them anymore. If you won't, it's not my problem.
If you want to join the melting pot for any other reason, follow the rules. And melt. Make sure to melt a little.
2
I went to college for 6 years to gain the knowledge I needed for my skills based jobs.
It takes a few days to become.a fast.carrot picker.
These are unskilled workers Unskilled.doesnt mean that they cant touch their pinky to their nose. It means they are uneducated or havent been an apprentice. They can learn to pick a grape in 10 minutes..If it takrd 10 minutes to learn something, its not a skilled trade.
It took my wifr 10 years so become a master electrician. Putting her in the same skill level as a grape picker is offensive. A grape apprentice doesnt need 5000 hours of grape picking in order to become a master grape picker..
It takes a few days to become.a fast.carrot picker.
These are unskilled workers Unskilled.doesnt mean that they cant touch their pinky to their nose. It means they are uneducated or havent been an apprentice. They can learn to pick a grape in 10 minutes..If it takrd 10 minutes to learn something, its not a skilled trade.
It took my wifr 10 years so become a master electrician. Putting her in the same skill level as a grape picker is offensive. A grape apprentice doesnt need 5000 hours of grape picking in order to become a master grape picker..
1
We need to stop all immigration. Let's stop DACA, DAPA, H1B, H2B, Refugee, Legal and illegal Immigration. Canada and the USA need to catch up from years of uncontrolled, rampant waves of huge levels of immigration.
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Canada does not have uncontrolled, rampant waves of immigrants. The children of our permanent immigrants have higher levels of educational achievement than the children of native-born Canadians.
I would be very interested to know how the role of provincial authorities impacts the implementation of this program. In other words, are things better in Québec than Ontario because of 'sub-federal' authorities doing their jobs? Immigration is a federal issue, but there are other legal and policy domains in play here.
7
Your article has a negative bias which does not reflect reality. Tousands of these temporary workers are happy to apply and come back for several seasons. In Quebec each temporary worker in known as such by Government authorities and protected by the same laws protecting all workers. I had occasionally the opportunity to meet informally some of them doing their shopping in a local mall on Sunday mornings and being fluent in Spanish allowd me to have candid conversations with many of them. They are well treated or otherwise our fruits and vegetable would root in the fields. They are happy the come back, for some 10 and 12 years, making friends with neighbours and even learning basic French.
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No. Not in Canada. The liberal bastion of the world? You don't say.
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The way Canada is going right now, looks like what the US has been for some time. A poorly integrated bunch of races and ethnicities which could conflagrate any time. The dizzying pace of change in which we are being caught is extremely scary in its scale and scope, without a plan or a clear vision of what we intend to achieve and what we really need to do, to get to that goal. I think we are in free fall and in disbelieve. Our leaders don't represent their constituents, they have become corrupt and treacherous to the rest of the citizens.
2
Wow! And some of us thought that Canada was populated with better educated people (than the Unites States), and with more regards toward folks doind their most difficult and hard work 'for peanuts'. I refuse to believe we are all cut by the same scissors of indifference, even cruelty, or at least an appreciation of somebody else's sacrifices on our behalf. Please Mr Trudeau, show us it 'ain't' so, by exposing Canadian reality as a blessed paradise of tolerance. And if not, show us you are prioritizing a remedy to show justice...instead of cruel disregard towards the least among us, just trying to make a living while contributing to your well-being.
3
It is populated by better educated people, empirically and anecdotally. Here's the question : how would these people who would otherwise be illegals in California, be treated...?
This is a disgraceful situation which succeeding Canadian governments have failed to remedy. It makes me truly ashamed to be Canadian, to be complicit in what only can be characterized as human trafficking. See the powerful documentary "Migrant Dreams" to witness this reality close up. http://tvo.org/video/documentaries/migrant-dreams-feature-version
6
It's getting hard to keep up with all this.
I thought Canada was utopia, full of enlightened and just people compared to us Neanderthals here in the US, and they had the whole globalization thing figured out, had cracked the code on how to treat migrants humanely, and that Justin Trudeau was going to save Western Civilization?
And now this.
I thought Canada was utopia, full of enlightened and just people compared to us Neanderthals here in the US, and they had the whole globalization thing figured out, had cracked the code on how to treat migrants humanely, and that Justin Trudeau was going to save Western Civilization?
And now this.
23
Well, TB.......... Canada IS utopia... Canada or the USA? Take your pick.
Mr. Trudeau or Trump? ;)
Politics aside, I knew a veggie farmer near our farm who employed TFW's and spoken to them. They were well treated and very happy to be here working and earning a living. Missing their families in Mexico, of course.
It's difficult to say what makes some people in the program to exploit TFW. It's unfortunate to hear of the abuse going on in some regions, but hopefully articles like this will be brought to the attention of provincial premiers and our prime minister .
Mr. Trudeau or Trump? ;)
Politics aside, I knew a veggie farmer near our farm who employed TFW's and spoken to them. They were well treated and very happy to be here working and earning a living. Missing their families in Mexico, of course.
It's difficult to say what makes some people in the program to exploit TFW. It's unfortunate to hear of the abuse going on in some regions, but hopefully articles like this will be brought to the attention of provincial premiers and our prime minister .
Capitalism has its defect everywhere. Canada accepted 30,000 Syrian refugees, the US (ten times larger) 10,000. I rest my case.
2
@Jan,
I've taken my pick, thank you very much, back when it was Michael Bloomberg or Rob Ford.
Awkward, I know.
And Trudeau is an empty suit.
And it's not at all difficult to say what causes abuse: it's unbridled greed, and it is not new. And it was enabled by globalization, which in turn enabled the exploitation of workers around the world, at an unprecedented scale. Those workers are now expressing their anger. And there is an awful lot of anger, so buckle your seat belt.
So this is all about a fundamental flaw in our current form of capitalism, and Canada is not immune from any of it.
And it doesn't sound much like utopia if your politicians have to wait for an American journalist to wander around and ask some basic questions in order to get the issue "brought to their attention".
All I'm saying is, slow your roll, Canada. We're all entering an era of low economic growth, and the problems that are beginning to surface after years of being ignored are just the beginning.
I've taken my pick, thank you very much, back when it was Michael Bloomberg or Rob Ford.
Awkward, I know.
And Trudeau is an empty suit.
And it's not at all difficult to say what causes abuse: it's unbridled greed, and it is not new. And it was enabled by globalization, which in turn enabled the exploitation of workers around the world, at an unprecedented scale. Those workers are now expressing their anger. And there is an awful lot of anger, so buckle your seat belt.
So this is all about a fundamental flaw in our current form of capitalism, and Canada is not immune from any of it.
And it doesn't sound much like utopia if your politicians have to wait for an American journalist to wander around and ask some basic questions in order to get the issue "brought to their attention".
All I'm saying is, slow your roll, Canada. We're all entering an era of low economic growth, and the problems that are beginning to surface after years of being ignored are just the beginning.
3