"Back then — the 1970s — gay stereotypes went unchallenged, gay jokes drew hearty laughter and exponentially more Americans were closeted than out." As Edith and Archie would sing "Those Were The Days."
3
This is interesting coming from a newspqper with such an elaborate array of select minority commentators - of who Bruni is one.
Token woman Republican, token woman Democrat. Token black Republican, token black Democrat. Token Zionist Jew, token Reformist Jew. Token white male Republican Conservative... The categorisation grows ever more elaborate.
I'm not sure it's a bad thing, but let's be clear that it is a thing.
Bruni wants his cake and eat it too.
What is unfortunate is that whatever they write about, they seem to get to do it for life.
I just wondered if any major newspaper has ever toyed with the idea of giving everyone else a chance to rise above the Comments or Letters pages.
Term limits work so well in politics, why not try it out in journalism? How many columns should any one person get in a community that encompasses hundreds of millions of people?
Sure, Bruni, I'll read your column - if only to confirm that I could predict exactly what you would write. What's the value of that to the debate?
Token woman Republican, token woman Democrat. Token black Republican, token black Democrat. Token Zionist Jew, token Reformist Jew. Token white male Republican Conservative... The categorisation grows ever more elaborate.
I'm not sure it's a bad thing, but let's be clear that it is a thing.
Bruni wants his cake and eat it too.
What is unfortunate is that whatever they write about, they seem to get to do it for life.
I just wondered if any major newspaper has ever toyed with the idea of giving everyone else a chance to rise above the Comments or Letters pages.
Term limits work so well in politics, why not try it out in journalism? How many columns should any one person get in a community that encompasses hundreds of millions of people?
Sure, Bruni, I'll read your column - if only to confirm that I could predict exactly what you would write. What's the value of that to the debate?
4
I've found that, when you argue about "race" on the internet, most people are reluctant to address your argument until they THINK they know your "racial" identity. Then they know what insults to throw at you. Blacks are as bad or worse than whites in this regard. If only the merits of the argument were being debated, the "racial" identities of the debaters would be irrelevant.
8
The world as seen through a lens so small its veracity is perpetually in question.
1
I grew up in a world where you were Jewish or Catholic...WASPs were rare. I grew up in a world where more often than I want to remember, the word KIKE was scrawled on our sidewalk or that of our neighbors. My little Jewish enclave was also known as a planned landing zone for the Nazi invasion. When we tore down the little tavern to build our synagogue, the basement was full of Nazi regalia.
My first week in college in the midwest, I was asked if I wore my hair long to cover my horns and was advised I was going straight to hell because I didn't accept their version of religion.
In graduate school, I was told by the dept chairman that they had more than enough Jews in the program to which i applied, and I should pick another specialty.
Now, I've graduated white oppressor. I am well aware that I am defined by the color of my skin, not the content of my character, and I understand how that came to be. I am not arguing the reality of white privilege; it's there and its real.
I will continue to listen to conversations about racism. I have been repeatedly told my folks have no place at that table, but I believe we are obligated to know what is said and change where we can change. We can be part of the solution.
I don't think Jews will be here much longer. Today's events hit too close to a home we once had in Europe. I'm tell my kids to have a plan B.
We may be white, but we are still the "other," and they will come after us next.
https://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
My first week in college in the midwest, I was asked if I wore my hair long to cover my horns and was advised I was going straight to hell because I didn't accept their version of religion.
In graduate school, I was told by the dept chairman that they had more than enough Jews in the program to which i applied, and I should pick another specialty.
Now, I've graduated white oppressor. I am well aware that I am defined by the color of my skin, not the content of my character, and I understand how that came to be. I am not arguing the reality of white privilege; it's there and its real.
I will continue to listen to conversations about racism. I have been repeatedly told my folks have no place at that table, but I believe we are obligated to know what is said and change where we can change. We can be part of the solution.
I don't think Jews will be here much longer. Today's events hit too close to a home we once had in Europe. I'm tell my kids to have a plan B.
We may be white, but we are still the "other," and they will come after us next.
https://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
12
assigning value to race perpetuates racism.
no-one should be assigned a pre-existing condition precluding him/her from debate.
no-one should be assigned a pre-existing condition precluding him/her from debate.
97
How long have liberals and the media been demonizing people just for being white? Identity politics is a creation of the left. There's no way peace can prevail when one race is constantly characterized as evil. I support BLM and any other lame brain's group's right to speech. Including the KKK, who's ranks have been dropping for many years. White racist's are being fueled by the the double standard of "free speech" applied by politicians and the media. Ignoring racist groups have been the best defense against them. But government controlled speech is now the goal of the politicians. And they are winning for now, but the battle is far from over.
51
As a white guy, I will tell you how liberals have hurt blacks while telling them to vote Democrat:
"Why affirmative action failed black families where it matters most" http://malemattersusa.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-affirmative-action-ha...
This is not what you think it is.
On another note, all groups ought to consider history. It shows that once the oppressed assume the roles of the oppressors, they soon begin to behave exactly like the oppressors.
In other words, if whites had always been the minority in the U.S. and blacks the majority, each would now be acting like the other.
A hard pill to swallow, but it helps maintain a sense of balance that can minimize obstacles -- while one fights for change.
"Why affirmative action failed black families where it matters most" http://malemattersusa.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-affirmative-action-ha...
This is not what you think it is.
On another note, all groups ought to consider history. It shows that once the oppressed assume the roles of the oppressors, they soon begin to behave exactly like the oppressors.
In other words, if whites had always been the minority in the U.S. and blacks the majority, each would now be acting like the other.
A hard pill to swallow, but it helps maintain a sense of balance that can minimize obstacles -- while one fights for change.
36
As a white novelist and short story writer who often has some of my black characters speak in first person as they deal with white violence and racism, I am very sensitive to this issue. I am aware of whites speaking for blacks and for others. Of course fiction allows me to "act" many parts and when I am in the middle of the part I don't feel separate. But I am. Some of my "parts" are female, some young. Each part makes me listen hard, carefully, humbly. I hope if I get it wrong, I get it wrong as a writer---not as a white man. The legacy of our racism has a big price--one we all pay. Some more than others. Of course, Frank Bruni, you must pay for past and present white arrogance by sometimes being disputed because you are white. I must pay for white authors preempting everyone's stories. But my books are still published. And you are still a New York Times columnist.
112
I think the real issue is our new national religion: victimhood. Everyone wants to be a victim because victims get sympathy, airtime, special treatment, respect. We now have so many groups and people claiming they are victims that we have competition on who is the victim. Is Donald Trump the victim of the media or is the media the victim of Trump? Trump is our Victim In Chief (VIC) and is always claiming he, his family, his supporters are all victims of media, democrats, ..
79
Thank you. I don't speak for a particular group or cause. I certainly don't feel as if I should apologize for my mom and dad being white middle class. My white middle class wife is watching me write this. She thinks I'm a slob and I should only have to deal with that
28
Very good until "Our advantage, as a class, is real and unearned.", which is nonsense. Europeans built America, Indians built India, ...
Stop apologizing for reality.
Stop apologizing for reality.
53
I don't suppose you see the irony, Frank Bruni, in making this all about you.
51
As a liberal, you are on the wrong side of this debate. And if you expect reasoned responses from your group, you will be disappointed. Wake up
18
Why is this a Demcratic problem? Did Donald Trump not get elected by riding the identity politics of working class white victimization? Don't Republicans use identity politics in their schemes to prevent anyone who isn't white from voting? At least non-whites and women and LGBT citizens do have legitimate historical grievances that haven't been addressed by the white conservative power structure. In fact, the opposite is true. Conservatives would like to turn back the clock -- Make America Great Again! Whether that means all the way back to slavery and disenfranchising women isn't clear. But the Confederate flags and Nazi banners at the Charlottesville riot offer a hint.
89
I am an old white man. I am also a Marine Korean War veteran. What just went on in Virginia in the year 2017 turns my stomach. What goes on in identity politics should have remained part of the 12th Century. Progress always comes despite bigots and ruffians like the white supremacists. I have lived in America where Blacks, Jews, Catholics, Asians, Moslems and any other minority need not apply. They are all Americans and they all ought to apply. We all ought to stand together against those vile white bigots in Virginia and any other place we find them. When I signed on as a Marine it wasn't to defend only the bigots among us. The world has changed as much as it has stayed the same since my boyhood. But I can testify that we can and ought to do better. I want every Pastor in the country, and I use the term Pastor generically, to shout out from the pulpit that bigotry has no place in a civilized society. I am disgusted by the bigots among us.
156
It's amazing that someone needs to write an article on a subject like this. The term White privileged is meaningless and has come into existence only to scapegoat an entire race in order to blame them for all the world's evil. It is bigoted to it core.
84
"First of all," he said, "if you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view […] until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." -Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird.
42
That a person i more that the color of their skin is such a simple concept.
Why has it taken the Left so long to realize this?
Why has it taken the Left so long to realize this?
16
It seems that if you are not X you cannot relate to X. But in my youth I learned about empathy, about "waking a mile in another's shoes." These were critical lessons that helped me imagine another's experience and another's color or sexual orientation. But now it seems we are all in rage without care to another's existence. Bashing white people becasue they are white is no better than bashing black people for being black. It seems so hard to recognize another's humanity. This doesn't mean we ignore the past nor the present. Hate speech, hate groups have no place in us and yet they exist. And they exist on right and left as they always have. Do we stand up to them or do we go on endlessly in a collective state of dementia recreating holocaust after holocaust and never remembering?
27
No one selects their parents nor their gender nor their ethnicity nor their nationality nor their socioeconomics nor their faith nor their politics nor their color at birth. But we all live with the historical costs and benefits of those factors once we arrive in America.
America was founded by white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men from Northern and Western Europe who owned property who intended that they were all created equal with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The story of America is the effort to expand that definition of who is a person and who is not beyond the malign original intent. Along with who is equal and who is not.
Making the reality match the rhetoric for all is the measure of American hypocrisy. With regard to the status of black Africans in America the white majority is divided by liberal pity and conservative contempt which both deny the individual diverse agency and humanity of black folks.
There was and is no powerful privileged American status than being born white male. But a gay Italian American NYT columnist and a German Scottish American New York City real estate baron reality TV star and their followers feel like oppressed victims.
Change one circumstance in their origin and who would know or care what they say or who they are or where they are from? Imagine that they had been born black African American separate and unequal property in the United States. No one would likely see nor hear them.
America was founded by white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men from Northern and Western Europe who owned property who intended that they were all created equal with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The story of America is the effort to expand that definition of who is a person and who is not beyond the malign original intent. Along with who is equal and who is not.
Making the reality match the rhetoric for all is the measure of American hypocrisy. With regard to the status of black Africans in America the white majority is divided by liberal pity and conservative contempt which both deny the individual diverse agency and humanity of black folks.
There was and is no powerful privileged American status than being born white male. But a gay Italian American NYT columnist and a German Scottish American New York City real estate baron reality TV star and their followers feel like oppressed victims.
Change one circumstance in their origin and who would know or care what they say or who they are or where they are from? Imagine that they had been born black African American separate and unequal property in the United States. No one would likely see nor hear them.
25
If we could take the white supremists and make them Black and then offer them a tour of Africa, they would understand that their values and references are the same as other Americans and that the color of their skin doesn't make them African. Then turn them white again and let the embrace their brothers and sisters. We have so much more in common than that which divides us; we're just not looking.
Maybe we should bring back the draft. I was in that Army and it taught people to live together, even when they didn't like each other.
Maybe we should bring back the draft. I was in that Army and it taught people to live together, even when they didn't like each other.
11
Identity politics? White men INVENTED identity politics? Only thing was there were only two identities to discuss- white men and all others. Now that those "others" are beginning to assert themselves, white men are losing their minds,
61
So no one is allowed to feel empathy?
17
Wow. Another "courageous" denunciation of "political correctness" and "identity politics." And look, the author is a white guy insisting that his being a white guy is irrelevant to the discussion of his courageous ideas.
Look, we get it. College sophomores can be politically sophomoric. And you can find every kind of stupidity in the comments section of any newspaper.
But pay attention: "Social justice warriors" aren't driving cars into crowds of people or stabbing Muslim women on trains or anything like that. Their crime is insisting that racism and sexism still make spaces like universities and the mass media inhospitable to people of color and women and need to be forcefully challenged.
Frank Bruni may not know it, but he's running interference for Trump and the alt.right here. He is accepting their narrative. He repeats hate monger Tucker Carlson's talking points about events at Evergreen, neglecting like so many other journalists to actually talk to the students who were protesting and omitting the inconvenient fact that the college was shut down by threats from racists to shoot students there.
You don't need to agree with every strident undergraduate activist utterance to see that battle lines are being drawn. It's not liberals like Bruni standing up to actual fascists in Charlottesville, but the radical left. Liberals tend not to acquit themselves well in historical moments like this and Bruni's column is an illustration of why.
Look, we get it. College sophomores can be politically sophomoric. And you can find every kind of stupidity in the comments section of any newspaper.
But pay attention: "Social justice warriors" aren't driving cars into crowds of people or stabbing Muslim women on trains or anything like that. Their crime is insisting that racism and sexism still make spaces like universities and the mass media inhospitable to people of color and women and need to be forcefully challenged.
Frank Bruni may not know it, but he's running interference for Trump and the alt.right here. He is accepting their narrative. He repeats hate monger Tucker Carlson's talking points about events at Evergreen, neglecting like so many other journalists to actually talk to the students who were protesting and omitting the inconvenient fact that the college was shut down by threats from racists to shoot students there.
You don't need to agree with every strident undergraduate activist utterance to see that battle lines are being drawn. It's not liberals like Bruni standing up to actual fascists in Charlottesville, but the radical left. Liberals tend not to acquit themselves well in historical moments like this and Bruni's column is an illustration of why.
44
Bravo! I usually enjoy Frank Bruni's columns. This is one of his best.
25
Great timing.
7
Perhaps the white men who were protesting in Charlottesville are angry because they feel powerless. Why? It seems to be motivated by the fear of others unlike them. Or are they scared they are losing power and control because our nation is turning brown? Upsetting
11
Clearly, we hear you out twice in a week in a GIANT platform. But that doesn't mean that we have to agree or respect your opinion.
This column being published on the day after the THIRD white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in less than three months suggests that maybe instead of attacking people based on their "liberal" identities with whom you pretend to be an ally, you should actually be standing up and acting as an ally against the white supremacist impulses of our country.
This last election was solely about the anxiety, anger and fear of white men, yet when we stand up against their rage we are accused of engaging in "identity politics."
We ARE talking about our experiences. It isn't just a theoretical "issue" for us. That's just the old, "you are too sensitive and emotional." Maybe you aren't getting traction on the topic because you are pontificating instead of engaging. Have you considered focusing instead on the need for YOU to listen to the voices of young people of color as opposed to the demand that they have to listen to you? Maybe attempt to feel what it feels like to never to be considered valuable and deserving of anything you have.
It isn't your color but your lack of insight and empathy that makes us pushback against your victim status.
This column being published on the day after the THIRD white supremacist rally in Charlottesville in less than three months suggests that maybe instead of attacking people based on their "liberal" identities with whom you pretend to be an ally, you should actually be standing up and acting as an ally against the white supremacist impulses of our country.
This last election was solely about the anxiety, anger and fear of white men, yet when we stand up against their rage we are accused of engaging in "identity politics."
We ARE talking about our experiences. It isn't just a theoretical "issue" for us. That's just the old, "you are too sensitive and emotional." Maybe you aren't getting traction on the topic because you are pontificating instead of engaging. Have you considered focusing instead on the need for YOU to listen to the voices of young people of color as opposed to the demand that they have to listen to you? Maybe attempt to feel what it feels like to never to be considered valuable and deserving of anything you have.
It isn't your color but your lack of insight and empathy that makes us pushback against your victim status.
48
There are different levels of prejudice. Some commenters, who are white, want to suggest that that unfair instances in their life make them victims. This is dishonest.
The answer to one simple question makes clear the racial bigotry that pervades-would you change your race to become black?
The answer to one simple question makes clear the racial bigotry that pervades-would you change your race to become black?
14
Imagination + Empathy = Civil Society
Imagination is just that. We imagine what something is like that we haven’t experienced. No matter to what proud identity group you belong, you have not experienced everything that impacts our society, the collective lives of us all. In fact, the more precisely you define yourself (25 yo, left-handed, red-haired, genderqueer, Quaker of Italian-Latvian descent) the more you limit your ability to participate in common solutions---if you insist on listening to only members of your in-group. But imagination expands the in-group, allows more people to work together and thus harness the strength and will of all.
But to what end? Empathy is what ensures that collective actions are positive ones. Empathy is concern for others, not just “not me” but “people not like me.”
With empathy and imagination we can unite for justice for all. With ever-narrowing definitions and restrictions on whose ideas can be heard, nothing will be achieved---other than victory for the fascists, whose very name derives from the Latin for “bundle” or “held together.” We fragment while they unite.
Imagination is just that. We imagine what something is like that we haven’t experienced. No matter to what proud identity group you belong, you have not experienced everything that impacts our society, the collective lives of us all. In fact, the more precisely you define yourself (25 yo, left-handed, red-haired, genderqueer, Quaker of Italian-Latvian descent) the more you limit your ability to participate in common solutions---if you insist on listening to only members of your in-group. But imagination expands the in-group, allows more people to work together and thus harness the strength and will of all.
But to what end? Empathy is what ensures that collective actions are positive ones. Empathy is concern for others, not just “not me” but “people not like me.”
With empathy and imagination we can unite for justice for all. With ever-narrowing definitions and restrictions on whose ideas can be heard, nothing will be achieved---other than victory for the fascists, whose very name derives from the Latin for “bundle” or “held together.” We fragment while they unite.
8
If I were Black, would I still think the way I do?
If I were Black, would people still look at me like they do now?
If I were Black, I would be angry, like I am now.
If I were Black, I would seek justice, and search for peace.
We are Black, alone.
We are Black, subdued
by history,
by hate,
by not being you
If I were Black, would people still look at me like they do now?
If I were Black, I would be angry, like I am now.
If I were Black, I would seek justice, and search for peace.
We are Black, alone.
We are Black, subdued
by history,
by hate,
by not being you
9
As Americans try to decide whether they are a boy or a girl, the enemy laughs and circles the perimeters waiting to attack. Valuable resources await the victor. In the meantime, white hypocritical liberals divide and weaken America by using African Americans and other minority groups to gain political power in hopes of ultimately ushering in socialism. A very sad day for America that so much time is wasted on a dysfunctional part of society. So very sad!
13
Hmm … identity politics. In France, at dinner, my host sometimes asks me my opinion. “Phil, as a typical American, what do you make of the rise of the radical right and its relationship with your president.” With my anger rising, I am compelled to say, “A typical American is one who is so-called white, whose ancestry includes major European nations and who has lived outside the US for most of his adult life and written articles for the Italian communist press. Is that what you are trying to say?” But I don’t, as dinner guests want to enjoy each other’s company.
5
Well Mr. Bruni, you've shown your "true colors!" Sad, indeed.
9
I'm a 75 yr old "white" guy. To a nazi, I'm a Jew. I'm economically well off enough to be retired and own a house.
I am not a very social person, but I see the actions of us humans as terribly important.
I hate political parties, because they get in the way of looking at, discussing and working together on issues critical to our world, our nation, and to us and our loved ones.
I don't care what beliefs another person holds, as long as they don't lead her/him to act against me.
I like listening to other people's views, whether they agree with me or not. Sometimes, it might lead to an exchange where one or both or several of us gain something from the time and effort spent.
I am rational.
Most of the time, I feel alone.
I am not a very social person, but I see the actions of us humans as terribly important.
I hate political parties, because they get in the way of looking at, discussing and working together on issues critical to our world, our nation, and to us and our loved ones.
I don't care what beliefs another person holds, as long as they don't lead her/him to act against me.
I like listening to other people's views, whether they agree with me or not. Sometimes, it might lead to an exchange where one or both or several of us gain something from the time and effort spent.
I am rational.
Most of the time, I feel alone.
43
This is the most well written and rounded thing I have read in the NYTs in years. Yes I caught that he is gay. Its the quality of ideas that concern me and the writer is thinking on a higher level.
4
BOTH parties practice identity politics, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. On OUR side are the women, the elderly, the poor, the non-white, the LGBT, the disabled, the immigrants, and the disenfranchised. On THEIR side are the facsists, the white supremacists, the racists,the xenophobes, the indifferent, irresponsible wealthy and corporations, the misogynists, the selfish, the greedy, the sociopaths and psychopaths, and the violent,. THEY have managed to gather their forces, in an effort to destroy our nation. WE must gather OUR forces, who have similar interests and needs, into an unstoppable force that will take back the land of the free and the brave, and send tRump and his deplorable minions back underground, and screaming for cover. We should not be polite about it. This is too important. Forget your manners and start fighting, tough. Racism and white supremacy are NOT alternative opinions. They are immoral and illegal.
17
Well, what better time to roll out the "oppression olympics" than 2017 in the United States of America? I did not agree with you taking up valuable space in the NYT with the first iteration of this column, now I'm just incensed about it. Privilege is real. So, is oppression. Let's stop arguing about it and do something about it. These types of columns are indulgences we can ill afford. And yes, when women and people of color see daily pictures of a bunch of old white guys determining their future, they begin to think ill of the process and the participants. Defend democracy in this space you've been given, not white guys.
19
"Lilla noted that what people in a given victim group sometimes seem to be saying is: “You must understand my experience, and you can’t understand my experience.”" - Article
These kind of people just want attention, and pity.
These kind of people just want attention, and pity.
15
As a black man in his 70's I think whites not only have the right to speak out on issues of racism but, having created and sustained the problem over centuries are obligated to do so.
I fail to understand why some people, black and white, think that only the systemically oppressed should address systemic oppression. Actually I do understand why some whites think that. It makes things much easier for them.
I also fail to understand why some black children of privilege, particularly those at elite colleges and universities, fail to acknowledge their privilege while far too many of their generational peers suffer the macro aggressions of living in a racist dystopia. You have to be eating pretty high on the hog to think that Charles Murray coming to your campus is the hardest thing you have to bear.
I fail to understand why some people, black and white, think that only the systemically oppressed should address systemic oppression. Actually I do understand why some whites think that. It makes things much easier for them.
I also fail to understand why some black children of privilege, particularly those at elite colleges and universities, fail to acknowledge their privilege while far too many of their generational peers suffer the macro aggressions of living in a racist dystopia. You have to be eating pretty high on the hog to think that Charles Murray coming to your campus is the hardest thing you have to bear.
56
Thoughtful column. Fascinating and sometimes furious responses. We live in an era in which the President and his party wallow in white aggrievement and a desperate need to return to making American great "again" -- the way it was in the 1950s, or maybe 1850s. Just this weekend, Nazis -- let's not call them anything else -- marched in the streets of Charlottesville, and the president couldn't bring himself to condemn them even after a woman was killed. I look at some of the responses to this column as a reaction to the anger on the mainstream and far right. And I know that solutions always lie in common ground, not in vehement division.
15
I venture to guess that 9/10 of the top comments are by white males, judging from the names. Another example of why we need "identity politics", "political correctness", or whatever is the popular slur for what used to be known as civil rights. Too many white men controlling the conversation, and the responses to it.
15
One thing I can say about being the old part of being an Old White Man is after years of following the same basic set of liberal tenets, trying to be fair and reasonable, trying to treat all people with respect, things, I am pretty sure I’m going to ride those values into my grave. No deathbed conversion to hate crimes planned. I have proved myself to myself.
So why do my fellow liberals have to be such boring but self-righteous stereotypes in treating me as an Old White Man? Such scolds outrage me, offended warriors so quick to dismiss whatever successes I’ve had to privilege. It’s not nice to use any large group as a punching bag. As my personal needs system is in pretty good shape, I will sum it up as less offended than saddened.
I am not your stereotype, here for you to make yourself feel woke by telling me I’m not.
So why do my fellow liberals have to be such boring but self-righteous stereotypes in treating me as an Old White Man? Such scolds outrage me, offended warriors so quick to dismiss whatever successes I’ve had to privilege. It’s not nice to use any large group as a punching bag. As my personal needs system is in pretty good shape, I will sum it up as less offended than saddened.
I am not your stereotype, here for you to make yourself feel woke by telling me I’m not.
28
Throughout history, white males have held the top rank of social stratification. It is the 21st century and there is a shift, gender, race and ethnicity are overlapping. They are angry and the extent of this anger is very evident , Trump is president.
These white nationalist may have won a small battle, but the war is already lost
These white nationalist may have won a small battle, but the war is already lost
7
There are many different types of privilege. There's white privilege, which people focus on incessantly, there's class privilege, wealth privilege, male privilege, straight privilege, healthy privilege, neurotypical privilege and probably many others. While focusing on the causes of black problems is productive acting like they're the only victims in the world is not.
That being said, most of the white whining is losers trying to find someone to blame for them being losers. Sometimes that has merit and in cases where people need help it should be given, but other times, well, as my grandpa says "God helps those who help themselves" - less whining, more working to improve yourself.
That being said, most of the white whining is losers trying to find someone to blame for them being losers. Sometimes that has merit and in cases where people need help it should be given, but other times, well, as my grandpa says "God helps those who help themselves" - less whining, more working to improve yourself.
9
Look up and you will see white supremacists marching on our country. Your concerns about the behavior of anti-racist young people should be refocused on the real problem - white supremacists. The young people are trying to undue the damage we have done and we should let them lead considering we created this mess. Use your forum for something positive and that you do understand - not yet another forum for the white man to lament the rise of others. It should disturb you how many white men are thanking you for your column.
9
United THEY stand, divided WE fall. Period.
2
This is going to sound as if I am a bigot. But before I write what I want to write, know this: I have an adopted son whose biological mother is (was) white and the biological father is (was) black. I live in Miami Beach and have any black friends and acquaintances. But this is what I experience all too often: reverse racism of sorts, especially from women (young and older). The manager of the USPS here clearly hates white men, barks nasty things at them which is then picked up by black people who work there. And on the streets, I have often--I'm 76 years old--been pushed aside on sidewalks by young black women, sometimes uttering, "git away, whitie!" Maybe I deserve their wrath. But maybe I don't. This country is so far removed from the racial issues that are our unfortunate heritage. I sure do wish, however, that my black president and his amazing wife were still in the White House.
21
MLK: I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
18
Well. I have red hair. That puts me into a pretty small minority doesn't it?
And I hope your answer is a good one or I'll lose my temper.
And I hope your answer is a good one or I'll lose my temper.
6
I abhor Trump the alt right and the other neo fascist organizations on display in the south. I was raised a democrat (ny) and understand current (left leaning) college culture.
However, the entire privilege argument is based upon one assumption, that everyone else cares about whatever injustices various sub divisions (normally racial divisions) of american s suffer from within society. I am supposed to care about your identity issues or trigger warnings because of some vaguely defined sense of justice that individual identifies with. Everyone has difficulties in their life, some trivial relative to others, however it is up to the individual to overcome these. I do not tell my life story or air my complaints or grievances with society throughout my social circles or use these as excuses for my shortcomings. It seems incredibly narcissistic that people expect me to check my privilege with relation to them based on how they perceive the world.
“White men: stop telling me about my experiences!” I do not care what your experiences were. If you are someone I am meeting I care weather you are late. If you are a friend I care weather you are trustworthy. If you are an employee or coworker I care about how you perform at the task you were hired for. I do not necessarily care about you and I don't care about your identity,
Finally, if you are an american you live in the wealthiest country in history. Do not take this for granted.
However, the entire privilege argument is based upon one assumption, that everyone else cares about whatever injustices various sub divisions (normally racial divisions) of american s suffer from within society. I am supposed to care about your identity issues or trigger warnings because of some vaguely defined sense of justice that individual identifies with. Everyone has difficulties in their life, some trivial relative to others, however it is up to the individual to overcome these. I do not tell my life story or air my complaints or grievances with society throughout my social circles or use these as excuses for my shortcomings. It seems incredibly narcissistic that people expect me to check my privilege with relation to them based on how they perceive the world.
“White men: stop telling me about my experiences!” I do not care what your experiences were. If you are someone I am meeting I care weather you are late. If you are a friend I care weather you are trustworthy. If you are an employee or coworker I care about how you perform at the task you were hired for. I do not necessarily care about you and I don't care about your identity,
Finally, if you are an american you live in the wealthiest country in history. Do not take this for granted.
12
Bravo, Frank! Let us all expose the hypocrisy of the cultural stereotype. You're white and suburban, so you can't possibly know what it feels like to be black. I'm white and Jewish (and suburban!) so I can't possibly know what it's like to be black. (In fact I had a young Black woman tell me once that 'I didn't have enough melatonin in my skin to be a part of the conversation'. Frankly, it's small thinking with a lack of heart. If you can't find empathy and understanding for 'the other' - particularly if you're one of a group persecuted for being 'the other' - you've learned nothing. Your oppressed group is not the only game in town.
9
I can make the choice to pass as straight. Brown and black people, for the most part, cannot make the choice to pass as white. That might be the fallacy of Mr Bruno's agreement
10
I don't always agree with Frank, but when I do...I do. This is an excellent piece. He should also recognize that the stereotype of white privilege is simply bogus. Most Whites aren't in the 1% (that would be statistically impossible). Not all white males were the quarterback of the football team. Some were ugly. Some grew up nerdy. Some had pimples or bad breath or unruly hair or no personality etc. so that they were ignored or ostracized socially. Some are stupid.
To assume that all whites fit some stereotype is idiotic. Just as it is idiotic to assume all Blacks have been persecuted by Whites. Or that all descended from slaves. The variability of life experience among members within a demographic group is in all likelihood greater than the variability among groups. That is a reasonably standard social science understanding of when you compare people whether in vivo or in vitro. That doesn't mean that there are no group differences -- but is it better to exaggerate differences (at least any that some how make members of one group victims) or try to emphasize our similarities?
To assume that all whites fit some stereotype is idiotic. Just as it is idiotic to assume all Blacks have been persecuted by Whites. Or that all descended from slaves. The variability of life experience among members within a demographic group is in all likelihood greater than the variability among groups. That is a reasonably standard social science understanding of when you compare people whether in vivo or in vitro. That doesn't mean that there are no group differences -- but is it better to exaggerate differences (at least any that some how make members of one group victims) or try to emphasize our similarities?
16
Do we have to live in the White House before voting on who might now? Does a surgeon have to have had an appendectomy before performing one yet? From where I'm sitting, democracy appears to be on the ropes in regards to the issue nicely addressed here. I've been living and working in China for a year, experiencing the hideous oppression of communist censorship first-hand, in multiple manifestations. It is a beast. You can say otherwise, even if you haven't lived through having your poetry being changed entirely to fit the national script in a news article about you or seen the horror on the faces of everyone who asks how you like China when you ask them the same question back. You might have some insights, knowledge, or ideas to contribute, even if you haven't been here. It's absurd to think otherwise. Can we not become like like this?
4
Progressives who would swallow live coals before finding fault with any other identity group routinely demonize white men as the root of all evil. Young progressives, most of them white, are as reflexively racist and intolerant as the southern segregationists of my youth, and posture from the same god given moral high ground.
One gets very fed up with being the go to scapegoat for all the world's ills. I have been a liberal all my long life, but these days my stomach turns every time I read this newspaper and all the rest of the left leaning news sites I visit daily. I have never watched Fox News or listened to Limbaugh and the other moronic goblins of the right, but I certainly understand their appeal, and why white men are so angry at the nonstop demonization that they elected the manchild Trump merely because he spoke up for them.
Tribalism destroys a country: today Kenya may be on the brink of another murderous meltdown over tribally-based politics. Progressive identity politics are tribalizing the US, fracturing us into victim groups that see society as a zero sum game, each determined to prosper at the expense of the others, most particularly whites. The right is awful but we expect that of them. Until recently we expected rationality and tolerance on the left, but today progressives tell us that 'melting pot' is a racist term and serious academics are hounded off campus when they don't parrot progressive orthodoxy.
I fear for the future of our country.
One gets very fed up with being the go to scapegoat for all the world's ills. I have been a liberal all my long life, but these days my stomach turns every time I read this newspaper and all the rest of the left leaning news sites I visit daily. I have never watched Fox News or listened to Limbaugh and the other moronic goblins of the right, but I certainly understand their appeal, and why white men are so angry at the nonstop demonization that they elected the manchild Trump merely because he spoke up for them.
Tribalism destroys a country: today Kenya may be on the brink of another murderous meltdown over tribally-based politics. Progressive identity politics are tribalizing the US, fracturing us into victim groups that see society as a zero sum game, each determined to prosper at the expense of the others, most particularly whites. The right is awful but we expect that of them. Until recently we expected rationality and tolerance on the left, but today progressives tell us that 'melting pot' is a racist term and serious academics are hounded off campus when they don't parrot progressive orthodoxy.
I fear for the future of our country.
20
This seems like entirely the wrong day for this column. As witnessed by the events in Charlottesville. We white people like to pretend that our privileged days are over in America. Clearly they are not. Instead of complaining in a very privileged space -- a weekly column in the New York Times -- I suggest doing something for those who lack some of the basic rights and dignity that you possess. All privileges are not equal, nor are all discriminations. And they also can't be ranked. What we all can do is educate ourselves and try to put ourselves in other's shoes -- and yes "check our privilege," however you say it. It takes imagination and compassion. It doesn't cost you anything. The whining about having to do it, costs everyone -- and it's unseemly.
10
Identity politics was destined to create divisions in this country.
9
Is empathy obsolete? I hope not.
3
I am 71, white, lifetime Democrat, former public policy CEO, former Naval officer - who lives by choice in a Habitat house surrounded by poor blacks all on some form of public assistance (and I receive SS).
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In 1971 I volunteered to be the Navy's minority affairs officer in LA to recruit black officer candidates. The Navy had a terrible shameful legacy of elitist and racist discrimination (E Roosevelt ... "the Navy will remain our gentleman service"). My job was to exclude some in order to include others. Virtually any black college grad was welcomed; white grads with double the test scores were sent to SEAsia swamp duty. It was justified - so I thought then and now. How else would we begin to right the ship?
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Now - after 60 yrs of preferential treatment based on the artificial notion of race/skin color - I support dropping all racial categories for hiring or college or ? We need to make a bold statement that our country stands for opportunity and that the economics-of-birth is a serious impediment for all people of all backgrounds.
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Holding on to racial distinction is like a chemical addiction: simplistic, easy to start & so difficult to pull away from. We have tried it for too long. I hope someone (even the madman on Penn Ave) may declare that good-hearted effort to be done.
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We are all Americans ... US citizens with common interests ... Let us join in support of opportunity for all - with a little extra lift for those born to economically-disadvantaged families.
.
In 1971 I volunteered to be the Navy's minority affairs officer in LA to recruit black officer candidates. The Navy had a terrible shameful legacy of elitist and racist discrimination (E Roosevelt ... "the Navy will remain our gentleman service"). My job was to exclude some in order to include others. Virtually any black college grad was welcomed; white grads with double the test scores were sent to SEAsia swamp duty. It was justified - so I thought then and now. How else would we begin to right the ship?
.
Now - after 60 yrs of preferential treatment based on the artificial notion of race/skin color - I support dropping all racial categories for hiring or college or ? We need to make a bold statement that our country stands for opportunity and that the economics-of-birth is a serious impediment for all people of all backgrounds.
.
Holding on to racial distinction is like a chemical addiction: simplistic, easy to start & so difficult to pull away from. We have tried it for too long. I hope someone (even the madman on Penn Ave) may declare that good-hearted effort to be done.
.
We are all Americans ... US citizens with common interests ... Let us join in support of opportunity for all - with a little extra lift for those born to economically-disadvantaged families.
13
This is the clearest explanation of what is wrong with current public debate that I have seen. I wish everyone could read it.
7
I'm a white middle-aged woman who voted for Hilary, and who, at times, has experienced misogyny and age discrimination. But NYT you're missing the point again. The main division in this country has always been its economic classes. Which won't ever change and will continue to divide us. The Dems didn't get it but Trump and his cohorts did.
13
I read your piece with a deep sense of knowing exactly where you're coming from. I grew up white and middle class in the midwest, got a degree in teaching, a masters in administration and spent 30 years in the classroom of a public high school. My husband was a vocational school administrator. I live in a nice neighborhood and have a pool in my back yard. But, I have bi-racial grand daughters and great-grand daughters. My son-in-law is black and my step grandchildren are black also. I straddle two worlds that make up today's America. I live in a very conservative Republican area. After yesterday's march and deaths in Charlottesville this 66-year-old white woman is more than concerned about the safety and future of my family and the future of this country than ever. There is no place to hide from this.
5
Identity politics has done several disservices to our democratic processs. In addition to the difficulties of discussing big issues, our descent into "Fake News" vs. "News that reinforces what I already believe" is crippling our ability to see beyond what we already think we know. When a large minority of the country thinks our major news outlets are unreliable trash dumps and alt-news sources like Breitbart News "tell it like it is" we have crossed a line into Us vs. Them that will take real effort to overcome.
6
I'm a 50 year old white male. I have trouble weeping for your predicament. Plenty of white male academics write about and are taken seriously about race and class. Race is more strongly predictive of future income, probability of police interaction, probability of incarceration than any individual factor. I would simply suggest that even, as put upon as you feel, you would not rather have born black. I do not feel I am being told by anyone to shut up or that my voice is unwelcome. I am being told that my understanding of the implications of race will always be qualitatively different and, yes deficient.
Since I have never wondered if I was going to die when pulled over by a cop, I think I have to accept that observation as fact.
Since I have never wondered if I was going to die when pulled over by a cop, I think I have to accept that observation as fact.
17
Yesterday, I was verbally attacked at the Netroots Nation event because I am a white female and am the problem because I sit on sidelines and do nothing to help people of color. All of this was a supposition by the speaker...a judgement because of the way I look. She knows nothing about me. Thank you for the article!
11
The focus should always be on what people of color need rather than on keeping white people in a comfort zone. I get that. But that doesn't require treating all white people as hopeless. it doesn't mean we should legitimize making generalizations about white people of a type we would never tolerate about others. It doesn't mean we should overuse the term "white supremacy" until it has no meaning. (I think of it as referring to an ideology, the one followed by yesterday's tiki torch carriers, not mistakes made by well meaning white people who are blind to the effects of privilege). It also doesn't help to attack and demonize people, and then when people observe they are being attacked, say it's not about you and you don't care enough and you can't be a real ally if you say that. That's just not how human beings work! We know that if we keep telling people that they are bad and hopeless and useless and irredeemable, some of them will internalize that and act accordingly.
11
Is this what America has come to? Whining and arguing over the new phenomena of white privilege? It's obvious the American empire is on the downhill spiral and perhaps it's days are numbered. Everybody is looking for excuses and ways and to denigrate ame, both on the left and right. When an empire is young and up and coming and in it together, it is strong. Eventually the day comes where it's past peak, we lose our togetherness and everyone is in it for themselves and whining it's over. The great American experiment with democracy is nearly over.
2
Let me start by stating that I don't care what anyone thinks about this comment. I'm in the basket of deplorable & am irredeemable.
Those on the Left who fervently practice identity politics seek to demonize all who disagree. If you think that 'white privilege' is nothing more than a fictional construct used to justify ongoing entrenched 'reverse discrimination' after all legal forms of discrimination against traditionally disenfranchised segments of society have long disappeared, then your a racist. If you're a white guy who points out that there may be more than naked discrimination behind the disproportionately small number of women at a tech firm, then your a sexist. If you are skeptical that whatever change in climate is primarily the result of man's use of fossil fuels, then you're a 'denier'.
These labels are not created or used to engender debate on any of these topics: they're designed to silence the opposing views. You are 'evil' for holding these views rather than someone to be reasoned with during a rationale discussion.
I have lived my life trying to follow the Golden Rule. I employ my God-given ability to empathize with others not like me when evaluating their thoughts on the issues of the day. Maybe the Left should do the same.
The problem many on the Left will confront is that many of the targets of their policies will actively rebel. Maybe the Left will understand that they are a significant contributing factor to the election of Donald Trump.
Those on the Left who fervently practice identity politics seek to demonize all who disagree. If you think that 'white privilege' is nothing more than a fictional construct used to justify ongoing entrenched 'reverse discrimination' after all legal forms of discrimination against traditionally disenfranchised segments of society have long disappeared, then your a racist. If you're a white guy who points out that there may be more than naked discrimination behind the disproportionately small number of women at a tech firm, then your a sexist. If you are skeptical that whatever change in climate is primarily the result of man's use of fossil fuels, then you're a 'denier'.
These labels are not created or used to engender debate on any of these topics: they're designed to silence the opposing views. You are 'evil' for holding these views rather than someone to be reasoned with during a rationale discussion.
I have lived my life trying to follow the Golden Rule. I employ my God-given ability to empathize with others not like me when evaluating their thoughts on the issues of the day. Maybe the Left should do the same.
The problem many on the Left will confront is that many of the targets of their policies will actively rebel. Maybe the Left will understand that they are a significant contributing factor to the election of Donald Trump.
9
Today is not a day for lamenting the the intolerance of a group of people with no real power except at a handful of elite liberal arts colleges and as a ratings draw for Fox News. I would venture that the kind of behavior that Mr. Bruni describes has actually affected few of the people commenting on his column, beyond hurting their feelings. Making an issue of it enables denial. There's a direct line from "their refusal to accept my opinion is hurtful to me" to "I only feel hostile to them because they are hostile to me" ("Obama is the reason the country is so divided") to the President's despicable "all sides are at fault" response to violence and murder by overt white supremacist. So don't worry about "them." Go take another look in the mirror and be sure you like what you see.
3
Thank you Frank for articulating this.
Amidst the ugliness that unfolded in Charlottesville, I posted a comment condemning the violence but asserting the non-negotiability of free speech, using as illustration the finale speech from "The American President" (1995):
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."
For that, I was (essentially) told to sit down and shut up, my white privilege disqualified me from speaking.
As the ugly incompetence of the Trump Administration began unfolding, I got involved, most directly by being elected to my city's school board. Seeking office was something I had long contemplated, but resisted, in large part, because of the rise of hateful, hurtful political rhetoric. However, Trump's election - and aftermath - was a tipping point.
But, I now wonder if it was a mistake. My progressive views and enthusiasm to counter the alt-right's hate and vitriol comes packaged in the person of a middle aged white guy. No one else stepped up to fill this vacancy, so was I supposed to "check my privilege" and sit on the sidelines awaiting for a "purer progressive" in a different package?
We do indeed live in interesting times.
Amidst the ugliness that unfolded in Charlottesville, I posted a comment condemning the violence but asserting the non-negotiability of free speech, using as illustration the finale speech from "The American President" (1995):
"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."
For that, I was (essentially) told to sit down and shut up, my white privilege disqualified me from speaking.
As the ugly incompetence of the Trump Administration began unfolding, I got involved, most directly by being elected to my city's school board. Seeking office was something I had long contemplated, but resisted, in large part, because of the rise of hateful, hurtful political rhetoric. However, Trump's election - and aftermath - was a tipping point.
But, I now wonder if it was a mistake. My progressive views and enthusiasm to counter the alt-right's hate and vitriol comes packaged in the person of a middle aged white guy. No one else stepped up to fill this vacancy, so was I supposed to "check my privilege" and sit on the sidelines awaiting for a "purer progressive" in a different package?
We do indeed live in interesting times.
10
I think that Bruni might have misperceived the situation.
There is a lot of rightful emotional anger about issues of racism in this country. Cellphone technology has now documented the still pervasive violence against minorities. It's a violence that traces straight back to the days of slavery. And it's a violence acquiesced in by bien-pensants like the privileged Bruni, and, for that matter, me. We white men set up a cruel machinery of injustice, and now protest, oh, we have nothing to do with that. That isn't how the world works.
These issues are about anger and political power, not rational debates over high-tea.
There is a lot of rightful emotional anger about issues of racism in this country. Cellphone technology has now documented the still pervasive violence against minorities. It's a violence that traces straight back to the days of slavery. And it's a violence acquiesced in by bien-pensants like the privileged Bruni, and, for that matter, me. We white men set up a cruel machinery of injustice, and now protest, oh, we have nothing to do with that. That isn't how the world works.
These issues are about anger and political power, not rational debates over high-tea.
6
"Classroom conversations that once might have begun, I think A, and here is my argument, now take the form, Speaking as an X, I am offended that you claim B". Why don't we call this reasoning what it is. A logical fallacy. Critical studies in philosophy, sociology and literature were never meant to be reduced to such absurdity. It is one thing to offer a different perspective from a place that is not the "center" of the majority culture, but it is quite another thing to shut down conversations and terrorize people with bad logic. The people who behave like this are simply bullies, and this is a culture that does not (or should no) accept or allow bullying.
4
The problem with the media's fractured narrative on race and diversity is that people's own personal experience is usually at odds with it. Have I witnessed racism in my life? Yes, absolutely. But Ive also witnessed vast swaths of kind, decent, and caring human beings who help each other because it's the right thing to do. And I've seen that kindness both given and received by all races. In my experience, the vast majority of people in this country are respectful of others. There will always be racist people. But I refuse to buy into the narrative that most people harbor racist views and tendencies. It's simply not the case.
4
Your essay exemplifies the suffocating narcissism that derives from a consumption economy created by predatory capitalism. The issue is the mind boggling lack of compassion this narcissistic individualism creates that is shredding our souls and collective consciousness. We are all here together, and unless we can imagine ourselves in each other's shoes, we are contributing to our own demise.
9
Eloquently expressed My. Bruni. I assume you will be duly castigated, but I hope, (believe?) that the overzealous guardians of victim-hood on the left are of approximately the same number as the guardians of racial purity on the right. In other words the vast majority want to live and let live, have a degree of empathy and show respect for all.
4
I'm 50% white and 50% American Indian. I'm heterosexuals and repulsed by the thought of men having sexual relationships with other men. I don't belong to any religious organization but I do believe religion brought great order to our society for over 200 years, and believe since we've shied away from religion our society has become less stable and more evil. I see no color, l go by instinct. If I like hearing what you have to say... we can be friends. If I feel uncomfortable or frightened when I'm around you... I will quietly leave your presence. I chose not to argue, I chose to walk away. I know that I will live about 85 years, based on how long the majority of my family lives. I know that I will never meet 99.95% of the humans on the planet, and I'm good with that. I know that once I die, in 20/40 years no one on earth will ever know I was ever alive... I'm good with that. So... I'm going to spend time with the people I love and respect, and leave all of this arguing to you people that feel the need to express your hate. Living a comfortable enjoyable life is MUCH easier than most people try to make it. Pick your path and remember... 40 years after you die - no one on earth will know you were ever alive.
7
According to 'identity politics', the great emancipator President Lincoln would be shouted down for his white privilege if he spoke today on a college campus.
Think about that. What a twisted ideology that is! WOW. So because Lincoln was a straight white man means that he has no right to issue the emancipation proclamation. That's insane. This post should forever destroy the division sown by identity politics. People who believe that you can't talk about oppression unless you meet their NARROW definition of oppressed. So who gets to decide that? That's where democracy and identity politics are incompatible.
And this coming from someone who votes against his "white male privilege" interests.... Uh oh!
Think about that. What a twisted ideology that is! WOW. So because Lincoln was a straight white man means that he has no right to issue the emancipation proclamation. That's insane. This post should forever destroy the division sown by identity politics. People who believe that you can't talk about oppression unless you meet their NARROW definition of oppressed. So who gets to decide that? That's where democracy and identity politics are incompatible.
And this coming from someone who votes against his "white male privilege" interests.... Uh oh!
10
A number of comments indicate that Mr. Bruni's essay is badly timed coming the day after the Nazi march in Charlottesville. Because he is white. Because, as one writer put it, he needs to talk to his white "brethren."
You would also call me white.
But the marches wouldn't. They are carrying the flags and chanting the slogans of people who branded, enslaved, and slaughtered my relatives, and I have no doubt they would do the same to me if given the chance.
I can't deny that the tone of my skin and my gender confer unearned privilege on me, but it doesn't make me the brethren of racists or Nazis. Being white is not as straightforward as that.
If you're not white, I will speak up and stand by you when the racists come for you. I'd like to know you'd do the same for me.
You would also call me white.
But the marches wouldn't. They are carrying the flags and chanting the slogans of people who branded, enslaved, and slaughtered my relatives, and I have no doubt they would do the same to me if given the chance.
I can't deny that the tone of my skin and my gender confer unearned privilege on me, but it doesn't make me the brethren of racists or Nazis. Being white is not as straightforward as that.
If you're not white, I will speak up and stand by you when the racists come for you. I'd like to know you'd do the same for me.
8
It's hard to know what to make of this article.
But nothing mentioned here changes the fact that America's racist past is still part of the problem, and white people -- whether straight, gay, rich, or poor have always been seen in the dominant position in this society, precisely because they're well...white.
And this basically nullifies any argument against Affirmative Action, because it wouldn't even be necessary if there were an even playing field to begin with.
And denial won't help.
This country is still light years away from truly being a post-racial society.
If anything, the recent tragic events in Charlottesville, Virginia has taught us that.
We're far from being great again.
But nothing mentioned here changes the fact that America's racist past is still part of the problem, and white people -- whether straight, gay, rich, or poor have always been seen in the dominant position in this society, precisely because they're well...white.
And this basically nullifies any argument against Affirmative Action, because it wouldn't even be necessary if there were an even playing field to begin with.
And denial won't help.
This country is still light years away from truly being a post-racial society.
If anything, the recent tragic events in Charlottesville, Virginia has taught us that.
We're far from being great again.
7
This radical position on who can sit at the table of identity politics is why we have the success of Donald rump and the rise of white supremacy. It is "reactionary." Both radical left and right do not feel any real conversation is possible with "others." It is an old fascist tactic used to tear a functioning society apart. Yes, Mr. Bannon, you really arent very smart. But Americans are stupid. They are falling for these tricks on both sides. Making a huge opening for authoritarianism and the arguement that the middle can no longer cohere. Maybe the advocates of radical identity politics need to understand where they are leading us. They aleady elected Trump. Think about that. The two factions battleing here both elected Trump. Maybe it is time the radical left owned its consequences.
2
"Identity" used to mean what made a person unique (for example, an ID card gives person a unique ID number). Now, for some reason, identity has been redefined as what group a pundit believes a a person belongs to. By classifying somebody by his or her "identity", you know everything you need about that person. This used to be called "stereotyping".
George Orwell was right. Sloppy language causes sloppy thinking produces bad political processes..
George Orwell was right. Sloppy language causes sloppy thinking produces bad political processes..
10
When I moved here from Canada long ago, it didn't take me long to discover that Americans are fixated on categories. Everyone and every business needs to define you and file you away. Your doctor certainly needs to know about your Jewish or African or whatever ancestry, but what business is it of the company you just bought your car from? When I told a person I worked with that I am part Sioux via a great grandmother, they said I should have put that down as my race because it might lead to promotions. Huh? It's crazy. Can't people just accept that we're not all the same and quit looking for reasons to scorn and despise others?
I just don't understand people.
I just don't understand people.
4
In this hypersensitive environment where you have to "check your privilege" and "create safe spaces," someone like Trump can come along and goad a significant number of white people into identifying as "white." As a group, they can laugh at the victimhood of the other identity groups, calling them "snowflakes," while at the same time feeling like victims themselves (and not appreciating the irony).
6
Clearly the racism has been here all along despite all of the references to a "post-racist society" during the Obama years. What Trump and his white supremacist fans are showing the country is that the infection that is racism runs deep in this country (I am sure no surprise to anyone of color.)
Maybe the cure for racism requires that we can all, especially whites, plainly see it first.
Maybe the cure for racism requires that we can all, especially whites, plainly see it first.
4
Finding myself erecting mental and emotional barriers against a growing number of people who are different from me, Trump voters, men who disparage women, climate change deniers, the one percent, etc. etc., I realized I was drifting farther and farther from my spiritual values.
"Love one another." That is the center and soul of what I believe, but it seems to be getting more difficult in our fractious age.
So I have taken on a practice that is beginning to help me avoid the temptation to close my heart or mind against someone, anyone.
It is to ask and try to understand with all of my capacities a single question: WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE YOU?
It's now clearer to me that the source of my sense of superiority or self-righteous is an unconscious assumption: even if every experience I have had from birth until now were exactly the same as yours, I would be a better person than you are.
That is very humbling, because in truth I do not know who I would be had I been born into a Nazi family in the 1930s, as a slaveholder in the ante-bellum South, in a family that produced a serial killer of women or gay men.
I do not know. This makes me want to understand as much as possible who The Other is, how they got to be that way --for better or worse.
This is hard work and my failures are many. Yet it is a start.
With practice, perhaps one day soon I be able to find in my worse enemy or the individual I despise most some common humanity and even a hidden goodness.
"Love one another." That is the center and soul of what I believe, but it seems to be getting more difficult in our fractious age.
So I have taken on a practice that is beginning to help me avoid the temptation to close my heart or mind against someone, anyone.
It is to ask and try to understand with all of my capacities a single question: WHAT IS IT LIKE TO BE YOU?
It's now clearer to me that the source of my sense of superiority or self-righteous is an unconscious assumption: even if every experience I have had from birth until now were exactly the same as yours, I would be a better person than you are.
That is very humbling, because in truth I do not know who I would be had I been born into a Nazi family in the 1930s, as a slaveholder in the ante-bellum South, in a family that produced a serial killer of women or gay men.
I do not know. This makes me want to understand as much as possible who The Other is, how they got to be that way --for better or worse.
This is hard work and my failures are many. Yet it is a start.
With practice, perhaps one day soon I be able to find in my worse enemy or the individual I despise most some common humanity and even a hidden goodness.
5
It starts with a consciousness that see humans, first, second and third...
As a teacher who worked in 'urban' areas, I saw my biases make a fool of me time and again.... until I would have been a complete imbecile not to have learned that APPEARANCES TELL US NOTHING....
Stereotype a Black, a White, an Asian, a Jew, a Woman, a Hispanic, a Transgendered person, an Other Abled person, a Person On-The-Spectrum, and your chances are no better than even that your assumptions are nonsense. Soon my fatigue and frustrations turned to wisdom.
All that matters is this; Hate or Love ? The rest are just cheap rationalizations....
As a teacher who worked in 'urban' areas, I saw my biases make a fool of me time and again.... until I would have been a complete imbecile not to have learned that APPEARANCES TELL US NOTHING....
Stereotype a Black, a White, an Asian, a Jew, a Woman, a Hispanic, a Transgendered person, an Other Abled person, a Person On-The-Spectrum, and your chances are no better than even that your assumptions are nonsense. Soon my fatigue and frustrations turned to wisdom.
All that matters is this; Hate or Love ? The rest are just cheap rationalizations....
64
Well said, Mr. Bruni. People of good will and good intentions, who share similar or the same goals and ideas about how society ought to be, are being straitjacketed by their compatriots who communicate by identity above all else. Humanity is nuanced, not clear-cut. Don't reject us, fellow travelers, we need to stand together to beat back the scourge in the White House and elsewhere. United we stand. . .you know how the rest of it goes.
9
We are in a very dark place. When any race or gender is afraid to discuss ideas with each other we've failed. I'm seeing this all over the place. Over the past several years instead of taking down bad ideas with facts and education we are shielding people to not offend them. If say a Jew happens to not agree with what another minority says it's "racist" or "sexist" thus silencing the altering opinion or statement. This is all over social media. Rational back and forth exchanges are no longer happening. We all human beings we all MUST get along or this country is going to fall apart. If a white male is afraid that their opinions are useless or worthless because he was born of that race how does that help create equality. Or if a black man has something to say don't slander him let him speak and be respectful. We are so tied up with race that we may become too scared or unable to effectively communicate with each other. If you want to help people understand oppression give everyone air time and correct where they may be wrong and show them when and how things can become harmful. What we're doing right now is dangerous. I don't see this neo nazi trend ending if we cannot find a way to communicate that isn't hateful on both sides and it needs to end right now.
11
Not great timing for this piece. We saw in Charlottesville what the *actual* problem is, and sure enough, it *is* identity politics; just (contra Mr. Bruni) not that of people on the left trying to make sure everyone's voice can be heard. Hopefully Mr. Bruni will revisit this piece in the future with clearer eyes, and acknowledge how badly he got it wrong.
10
Maybe, just maybe, identity politics has become the problem. How about trying something corny, like being in favor of a melting pot America with plain old liberty and justice for all?
8
Regardless of our gender, sexual preferences, race, religion, politics, ethnicity we must remind ourselves that we are humans. We all essentially desire the same things. To wrap oneself in an singular identity such as "I am a black man" or a "lesbian" or whatever narrows our perspective of ourselves and the perception of others. Being gay or black or straight is part of who people may be but it does not define them as the individuals that they are. Far better Frank to identify yourself as the moral man that I believe you to be by your words and actions that just so happens to be white, male and gay.
3
Bruni picked the wrong Sunday to air his grievances about white males being disrespected, although I'm sure there's a bunch of guys in Charlottesville who would applaud, if their education level were sufficient to read this column. Substance aside, the timing seems wildly inappropriate.
12
Life is tough no matter what you are. Some make it some don't. A person is better of "Making it" than crying about it.
Worked wonders for million of all kinds of people.
Worked wonders for million of all kinds of people.
1
Think about the argument that growing up white and affluent will automatically bar you from understanding a black man's plight. If this is true, then we have no hope and it is as though the foundation of our lives is biologically encoded. Birds of a feather ..... The same holds for LGBT and other apparent differences. If we force people to get along, will it always feel forced? I grew up in California in an upper middle class neighborhood. My first real job after a Graduate education was in Louisiana. I worked for the State and I can tell you that whites and blacks worked at the same place but the feel of the place was one of strain and tension. So how to solve this apparent problem would go a long way.
1
A few months back on facebook, after the trial of the officer who killed Philando Castile ended in acquittal, a young, well-educated, woman of Asian ethnicity, raised in America, suggested that it might be time for "us" to take out one of "them". The "us" being people of color; the "them" being police officers.
I commented that I thought that was a bad idea, and it would only make the problems much worse for everyone. I offered up some advice from the Buddha, since I'm a Buddhist: “Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.”
The young woman responded by saying that she didn't have time for my "whiteness".
Her Asian friends (strangers to me) also attacked me by reminding me of my "white privilege".
When I noted that I'm part Lakota, their tone toward me changed, though not completely. Which I also think is shameful. Why should that matter?
Their tone didn't even change when I copied and reposted my earlier comments about the acquittal in which I denounced the verdict and pointed out that this is an example of what some people mean when they talk about white privilege––white people don't get shot when they get pulled over by the cops.
My "whiteness" gave them license to attack me and dismiss my (or rather the Buddha's) advice.
Apparently we need to relearn the notion that judging anyone on the basis of skin color is shallow and stupid. It's an intellectually lazy way of trying to win an argument.
I commented that I thought that was a bad idea, and it would only make the problems much worse for everyone. I offered up some advice from the Buddha, since I'm a Buddhist: “Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.”
The young woman responded by saying that she didn't have time for my "whiteness".
Her Asian friends (strangers to me) also attacked me by reminding me of my "white privilege".
When I noted that I'm part Lakota, their tone toward me changed, though not completely. Which I also think is shameful. Why should that matter?
Their tone didn't even change when I copied and reposted my earlier comments about the acquittal in which I denounced the verdict and pointed out that this is an example of what some people mean when they talk about white privilege––white people don't get shot when they get pulled over by the cops.
My "whiteness" gave them license to attack me and dismiss my (or rather the Buddha's) advice.
Apparently we need to relearn the notion that judging anyone on the basis of skin color is shallow and stupid. It's an intellectually lazy way of trying to win an argument.
25
The Left has basically mishandled every aspect of promoting social justice and eliminating racism. There can be no dispute that minorities, women, and LGTB folks have been subject to systemic discrimination by white people in this country, in ways obvious and subtle. But the Left's attempt to recruit white "allies" to combat racism appears intended to do the opposite -- to drive away whites willing to be allies and to provide grist for the alt-right's propaganda machine.
I'm talking about the insults, contradictions, and ridiculous demands placed on white "allies" by the Left. We're told that we basically need to keep out mouths shut, that we are incapable of speaking about anything because it is not our lived experience, as if, as a group, none of us have ever known what it has felt like to be discriminated against or shunned. We're also told that it's not the responsibility of minorities to educate us about racism -- so then how are we supposed to learn the truths that the Left claims we're incapable of learning by ourselves? Moreover, we're told that our silence is "complicity" and that we should be focused on stopping other white people from being racist; but again, remember, we're not supposed to know anything on the subject. And, in the end, we're told that somehow this is all our fault -- we've accepted the poisoned fruits of racism, so we are, in a very real sense, inherently morally tainted.
Sorry, but if this is your idea of an "alliance," you can have it.
I'm talking about the insults, contradictions, and ridiculous demands placed on white "allies" by the Left. We're told that we basically need to keep out mouths shut, that we are incapable of speaking about anything because it is not our lived experience, as if, as a group, none of us have ever known what it has felt like to be discriminated against or shunned. We're also told that it's not the responsibility of minorities to educate us about racism -- so then how are we supposed to learn the truths that the Left claims we're incapable of learning by ourselves? Moreover, we're told that our silence is "complicity" and that we should be focused on stopping other white people from being racist; but again, remember, we're not supposed to know anything on the subject. And, in the end, we're told that somehow this is all our fault -- we've accepted the poisoned fruits of racism, so we are, in a very real sense, inherently morally tainted.
Sorry, but if this is your idea of an "alliance," you can have it.
14
Find it ironic that many of the stern, lecturing comments that identify all of the ways white men fail everyone else also seem to look to them to solve the problems they created.
Identity politics are an abysmal failure because they alienate most people in the long run. I don't need a lecture from anyone and am happy to inform you that my political beliefs are none of your business, just as yours' are none of mine and do not need to be justified to me or anyone else.
If someone was drowning in a lake while I was talking, I'd shut up and go help them. Why isn't that enough?
Identity politics are an abysmal failure because they alienate most people in the long run. I don't need a lecture from anyone and am happy to inform you that my political beliefs are none of your business, just as yours' are none of mine and do not need to be justified to me or anyone else.
If someone was drowning in a lake while I was talking, I'd shut up and go help them. Why isn't that enough?
11
Dear Frank,
I continue to be disheartened that you side with Weinstein in the Evergreen debate. And yes, because you are a highly intelligent and sensitive person, I was particularly insulted that you used your platform to defend his free speech rights over the exasperated reactions of the students. I hope you'll take a few minutes to read this article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/evergreen-state-college-another-side...
I agree with you that reductive narratives are not helpful. But neither is continuing down the hole of defending rational speech and then referring to google engineers that 'must make room...on that stage.' Are you suggesting that 'sharing' the stage (which implies ownership) will occur automatically? It has not been my experience that people give up their power casually or willingly very often.
It really stings that you see me as a 'guardians of purity on the left' so I guess we're even. And thank you for continuing to unpack this difficult topic. Given this weekend's abuse of the 'free speech' construct in Charlottesville, we clearly have a long way to go.
I continue to be disheartened that you side with Weinstein in the Evergreen debate. And yes, because you are a highly intelligent and sensitive person, I was particularly insulted that you used your platform to defend his free speech rights over the exasperated reactions of the students. I hope you'll take a few minutes to read this article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/evergreen-state-college-another-side...
I agree with you that reductive narratives are not helpful. But neither is continuing down the hole of defending rational speech and then referring to google engineers that 'must make room...on that stage.' Are you suggesting that 'sharing' the stage (which implies ownership) will occur automatically? It has not been my experience that people give up their power casually or willingly very often.
It really stings that you see me as a 'guardians of purity on the left' so I guess we're even. And thank you for continuing to unpack this difficult topic. Given this weekend's abuse of the 'free speech' construct in Charlottesville, we clearly have a long way to go.
2
'Identity politics' will never be a unifying force. It separates people based on the color of their skin, their sexuality and religion. What we are left with are minorities screaming for their rights to be loved, recognized and coddled and if you happen to be 'lucky' enough to be part of the 'majority' or the 'well-off', well then, you are not afforded those 'rights'. This will never be conducive to bringing people together. Rather, it will insure a future of competing groups fighting for THEIR rights and not the rights of ALL Americans.
10
I appreciate your honesty and your integrity. There are white men (of gay, heterosexual and trans identity) who value honesty and integrity and humanity. The problem isn't that you don't exist... the problem is you do not speak out loudly and firmly against the blatant racism and misogyny exponentially increasing in this country. It is far too easy for you keep your head down and reap the benefits that come your way. Get real Mr. Bruni! Our country's leaders are in the process of destroying Planned Parenthood, Affirmative Action, Public Education, the EPA, our National Public Park System, access to Health Care. You may be gay but your a white male and if you are honest with yourself you will have to admit that you have towed the line because you could. This country is falling apart... partly because Trump is abusing the power of the POTUS and has no concept or appreciation of what a democratic society is... but this is also happening because people like you are keeping your head down.... get out there and do something... don't use violence...but be willing to leave the comfort of the white upper class male society that you belong to through a toss of the genetic dice and DO SOMETHING that ACTIVELY PROMOTES HUMANITY.
7
Hey, we are all human beings. Can't we figure this out. It doesn't matter colour, race, creed. Stop putting people in boxes to identify them. We are all one. Now start treating others like the one.
3
That was a high-wire act of a column, and you did a brilliant job.
8
The only real equality we, people inside the borders of the United States, have is when we are standing in line at the grocery store (or drugstore, etc.) and whether we are White, African-American, Asian, Mexican, Hispanic, Latino or Latina, Eastern European, et. al., we all have to shell out the same green dollar bills, or some form of grey credit or debit card, for overpriced goods which we are sold in miniscule batches. People gotta eat and the entire food industry sector exploits us and rips us ALL off!
In the end it is just like an airplane -- whether you sit in the front or the back depends on how many green dollars you have. That is the colour line in America.
In the end it is just like an airplane -- whether you sit in the front or the back depends on how many green dollars you have. That is the colour line in America.
5
In March of 1891 eleven Italian-Americans were lynched by a mob in New Orleans. Simply because their genotype resulted in their phenotype.
DNA has no social, cultural or family, clan, tribe history. DNA has no traitors or patriots. DNA has no record of anything that happened to your Grandmother. DNA has no reincarnation component. DNA has no record of your Father and Mothers first date. DNA has no idea who your maternal Great Grandfather voted for in Philadelphia, MS. DNA doesn't know if you lived in The Big House or The Outhouse.
People are and people are now. Individual and distinct. Pride and guilt from an Ancestry.com chart is folly of the most pernicious order.
DNA has no social, cultural or family, clan, tribe history. DNA has no traitors or patriots. DNA has no record of anything that happened to your Grandmother. DNA has no reincarnation component. DNA has no record of your Father and Mothers first date. DNA has no idea who your maternal Great Grandfather voted for in Philadelphia, MS. DNA doesn't know if you lived in The Big House or The Outhouse.
People are and people are now. Individual and distinct. Pride and guilt from an Ancestry.com chart is folly of the most pernicious order.
1
Some real problem you have there, my dear americans, always separating people by colour. And what is this blaming Trump for this all about? Did racism started the day he took office? It's very weird to see the more technological, creative country being so backwards in this issue when you have inspired the more progressive ideas in the world. Stop separating by colours, in any matter. It's really useless. For example, voting polls, why separate voters by black, white, yellow, latin? Who in the modern world does that?
8
Poor Frank Bruni. It must be hard for him to have his opinions dismissed because of his race and sex. It must have took a lot of courage for a man with so little opportunity to be heard to so courageously explain why that is wrong.
Actually, what Bruni is lamenting is what happens to women and people of color every single day.
Refusing to listen to someone because of their race or sex is wrong. Irrespective of whether you are the beneficiary or victim of systems of unequal racial and sexual power and privilege. But so is well to do white men playing the victim in discussions of racism and sexism in this country. And that is what Bruni is doing here, echoing in a more refined form the talking points of white male victimhood that animated the murderous far right mob in Charlottesville this weekend.
I'm white and male myself. I learned a while ago, however, that when people tell me they don't want to listen to what another white man has to say on a subject, not to take it too personally. I learned to recognize it as a sometimes clumsy expression of a legitimate frustration with whose voices are taken seriously and whose are ignored. I learned to take it as an indication of what topics I might not know as much about as I think I do and on which my race and gender might lead to blindspots.
You are not the victim here, Frank. It is irresponsible to act like you are.
Actually, what Bruni is lamenting is what happens to women and people of color every single day.
Refusing to listen to someone because of their race or sex is wrong. Irrespective of whether you are the beneficiary or victim of systems of unequal racial and sexual power and privilege. But so is well to do white men playing the victim in discussions of racism and sexism in this country. And that is what Bruni is doing here, echoing in a more refined form the talking points of white male victimhood that animated the murderous far right mob in Charlottesville this weekend.
I'm white and male myself. I learned a while ago, however, that when people tell me they don't want to listen to what another white man has to say on a subject, not to take it too personally. I learned to recognize it as a sometimes clumsy expression of a legitimate frustration with whose voices are taken seriously and whose are ignored. I learned to take it as an indication of what topics I might not know as much about as I think I do and on which my race and gender might lead to blindspots.
You are not the victim here, Frank. It is irresponsible to act like you are.
10
"So where does that leave me? Who does that make me? Oppressor or oppressed? Villain or victim? And does my legitimacy hinge on the answer?"
This thesis and the writing surrounding it is suitable for a personal journal -- NOT the Times. Self-involved musings should be kept personal. The title of this piece is a powerful demand that something presumably important and particularly relevant to immediate current events needs to be heard.
This is not only not helpful, it's like throwing oil onto a fire. Whenever someone with a public forum makes such a declaration, and then fails to address the prime topic, it increases the knee-jerk rejections from those who might initially have had the patience to listen.
They will justifiable be much less inclined to do so in the future.
If only you had written something like: "I'm a White Man, Hear me out...
[What was done to your ancestors was wrong. I recognize that I can't go back and undo it, and that it left scars. But angry as you might be when reliving that if you guys keep refusing to hear the words of people who weren't there, just because of the color of OUR skin, you're repeating the sin of unjust persecution, and creating a sense of persecution rather than contrition. We're sorry, but we ALL must check both our privilege AND our rage to walk forward together as human beings.]"
Well, maybe next time.
This thesis and the writing surrounding it is suitable for a personal journal -- NOT the Times. Self-involved musings should be kept personal. The title of this piece is a powerful demand that something presumably important and particularly relevant to immediate current events needs to be heard.
This is not only not helpful, it's like throwing oil onto a fire. Whenever someone with a public forum makes such a declaration, and then fails to address the prime topic, it increases the knee-jerk rejections from those who might initially have had the patience to listen.
They will justifiable be much less inclined to do so in the future.
If only you had written something like: "I'm a White Man, Hear me out...
[What was done to your ancestors was wrong. I recognize that I can't go back and undo it, and that it left scars. But angry as you might be when reliving that if you guys keep refusing to hear the words of people who weren't there, just because of the color of OUR skin, you're repeating the sin of unjust persecution, and creating a sense of persecution rather than contrition. We're sorry, but we ALL must check both our privilege AND our rage to walk forward together as human beings.]"
Well, maybe next time.
4
Dude.... Just stop. Please! When you meet someone, look them in the eye, shake their hand, smile and say 'nice to meet you' and mean it. End of discussion.
5
I feel like a lot of this backlash is caused by coastal elites who live in all white buildings and gated communities and have actual power in society chastising poor and working class people(who actually work in diverse environments) as having " white privilege". You've infused political shaming into all of culture, and branded any working class culture as sexist and racist. These "progressive" websites like Salon and Mic weaponize identity politics to create divisiveness for ad clicks. You're not solving any problem as much as enforcing cultural dominance.
7
Last week on a ABC news correspondent Martha Raddatz discussing the wrong type of white person said fortunately they are dying off. Then what ? Are black, brown, women and LGBTQF going to lose their jobs to a h1-b workeronce white priviledge is gone? They studied as hard as the white privileged did and earned their degrees? Some times it doesn't matter if you are white. Take away the priviledge from the white priviledged you might consider it a success but are there going to be any jobs left lets say in the renewable energy industry when some MBA figures its cheaper to build overseas. Take their jobs and Feed the people opioid drugs and negate their lives as long as there's enough for you.
Come on and make Martha Raddatz happy. Get the message yet: you don't count.
Come on and make Martha Raddatz happy. Get the message yet: you don't count.
3
So when exactly did the "progress" of lifting minorities up stop? Look no further than the destruction of the progressive system of taxation established by FDR, etc,
during the Great Depression. Remember the good-old-days when the topi come bracket paid 91%? Ya, me niether.
during the Great Depression. Remember the good-old-days when the topi come bracket paid 91%? Ya, me niether.
3
Frank, I love your columns. Some have brought me to tears with their eloquence. I'm also white, and gay (lesbian). But it's disheartening to read this. You write that "white people...men...must make room in the narrative." Why's it up to white men to decide to do this? Answer: because they are in charge of everything. You've simply affirmed that by placing the solution on them. They will never make room in the narrative of their own volition. History has proved that, and with the current regime in Washington, and the crazy supporters who love it, we all know it's true. You also object to people appraising "the packaging...more than the content" and turning "categories into credentials." Good! Now you have an inkling of what it's like to be talked over, shouted down, even left out of the meeting...or demoted, fired, beaten, trolled, hated on and all the rest just because of your sex and skin color. I don't know the solution to this and it shouldn't be a competition in oppression stories. But I recommend taking a step back and trying again.
7
I am a working class white male from England who was lucky enough to have a decent brain and be offered a job in the USA. I personally find the identity politics in America to be nauseating. Point 1: when I came to America, I thought it was the land of milk and honey. Poor people in America have more stuff and a better quality of life that just about anyone anywhere else on the planet. Point 2: my ancestors were just as disenfranchised and put down as many of the special interest groups who constantly moan on this comments section. In England, my accent marks me down as po-white. What do I do? Work hard, use my brain and fight the fight. Everyone has a life experience, everyone can talk about discrimination. Until Americans stop being so precious about how "my suffering is worse than yours" and accept that we're all working class, under the thumbs of "the man," we will remain divided and conquered.
12
If you believe that I cannot know what it is like to be a _______, then how can you expect me to be in your corner; how am I to behave; how can I do right?
What, exactly, am I to do?
What, exactly, am I to do?
4
If people are still believing the lies, then, there is no hope moving forward. All men are not created equal. Can people just accept the fact?! Everything in biology is in a spectrum. There are smart people and dumb people in each race and tribe. Second, white people are the majority and it is not their fault. Try to take away majority right from any other race in any country. Tell me what the responses are going to be?! How about learning from my motto - suck it up and move on. It is actually very deep. Besides, there are real battles to fight for and it is absolutely pointless to fight a unwinnable fight. Finally, I have been saying this for a while. Democracy was a concept formulated in homogeneous societies. Democracy cannot work well in a tribal/diverse society. When can people finally realized that it is really in our DNA. How can anybody correct the force of evolution after tens of thousands of years of enforcement?! Sad! We are doomed!
1
People need to know that telling someone they have what they have in life because of a systemic privilege is an attack just as bigoted and prejudiced as a racist.
Systemic white advantage is real but it isn't applied evenly across the white spectrum. (If you didn't know white people weren't a monolithic category then you're simply a racist.) Discussing systemic white advantage doesn't mean you get to dismiss anything said by a white person because that's just what a racist would do. It's academic and means that we have to structurally alter our economic and educational system in this country instead of using it to shout down any viewpoint we disagree with especially those from the white spectrum.
I've been the target of prejudice from white, brown, black and Jewish people my whole life, which made me systemically disadvantaged. But I don't tell other people they can't discuss my experience, in fact I encourage it, wholeheartedly! People love putting me in wrong categories even though the only ones I belong to is anti-patrician and pro-democracy.
Systemic white advantage is real but it isn't applied evenly across the white spectrum. (If you didn't know white people weren't a monolithic category then you're simply a racist.) Discussing systemic white advantage doesn't mean you get to dismiss anything said by a white person because that's just what a racist would do. It's academic and means that we have to structurally alter our economic and educational system in this country instead of using it to shout down any viewpoint we disagree with especially those from the white spectrum.
I've been the target of prejudice from white, brown, black and Jewish people my whole life, which made me systemically disadvantaged. But I don't tell other people they can't discuss my experience, in fact I encourage it, wholeheartedly! People love putting me in wrong categories even though the only ones I belong to is anti-patrician and pro-democracy.
7
The most important take-away in my opinion from Mr. Bruni's article is the need to unite against this common threat. There is a well-organized, long-smoldering political tidal wave overwhelming the rule of law and equity, fundamental fairness, equal rights and all the other liberties. (Except for the right to bear arms.). These confederates and their sympathizers have declared war on all the rest of us-regardless of our race, creed or color, femininist, LGBT - in the end it does not matter to these Tea Party "patriots" and holier-than-thou saints. They hate us all equally. They have been wonderfully successful keeping us at odds with each other, never uniting politically against them. Critical to this success is maintaining identity politics as the knee-jerk American reaction. Attacking first one group, then another serves to keep us at each others' throats. Our only hope is to speak with one voice. We need some real leadership, some organized push-back. We need the media continue to step up even though the attacks on truth will intensify. Late night comedy is not going to stop the KKK and the John Birch Society, Fox News and Rupert Murdoch. Mitch McConnell is laughing at us all. We have to push back as one. It's time for courageous leadership to get together and show the way.
4
Identity Politics is what got us here. Both folks driving cars into crowds and guy taking guns and killing cops and polar bear hunting and a whole host of bad stuff. Bottom line is Identity Politics are profoundly flawed and weaponized in the most immoral ways. Needs to stop.
3
Very well said, Mr. Bruni. And it badly needed saying. Thank you.
3
Human beings are complex creatures so Frank is correct that being White and Gay does not define him. Those factors are a part of him, not all of him. Still he does not get it.
When people come up to him they see that he is White, they do not not know that he is Gay unless he lets him know. So being White trumps being gay (no pun intended).
Being Gay does not "redeem" him. It does not make up for the fact that he has basked in White privilege his entire life; his being able to go through life much more easily than people of color do.
When people meet me they cannot help notice that my skin is slightly darker than most White people. They cannot notice that I also speak Spanish and that my surname is Spanish of Arabic origin. So in White people's minds the Hispanic checkbox gets ticked and I get treated differently because of that.
I am lucky that I am only slightly Brown in color, in fact in the old days I probably would have been able to pass as White to improve my life circumstances. But doing so would have meant turning my back on my culture, disavowing who I am to reshape myself in the image of the dominant culture, i.e., to assimilate.
When I check my Texas driver's license I see that it lists me as White. I see that it removed the accent mark that rightfully belongs on the last vowel of my surname. In effect my true identity suffered a death by a thousand cuts in the name of assimilation.
As a privileged White conservative complaining about your life is pathetic.
When people come up to him they see that he is White, they do not not know that he is Gay unless he lets him know. So being White trumps being gay (no pun intended).
Being Gay does not "redeem" him. It does not make up for the fact that he has basked in White privilege his entire life; his being able to go through life much more easily than people of color do.
When people meet me they cannot help notice that my skin is slightly darker than most White people. They cannot notice that I also speak Spanish and that my surname is Spanish of Arabic origin. So in White people's minds the Hispanic checkbox gets ticked and I get treated differently because of that.
I am lucky that I am only slightly Brown in color, in fact in the old days I probably would have been able to pass as White to improve my life circumstances. But doing so would have meant turning my back on my culture, disavowing who I am to reshape myself in the image of the dominant culture, i.e., to assimilate.
When I check my Texas driver's license I see that it lists me as White. I see that it removed the accent mark that rightfully belongs on the last vowel of my surname. In effect my true identity suffered a death by a thousand cuts in the name of assimilation.
As a privileged White conservative complaining about your life is pathetic.
3
The white nationalists were only carrying out the message that Trump delivered - if David Duke is to be believed. Trump is only trying to bring us together with the worst of this country. I'm not sure if the white nationalists are interested in a lovefest with anyone except, perhaps, Trump - a white man that seems to share their beliefs.
1
Thanks for that quote from Thomas Chatterton Williams. It rings true and seems note perfect to me.
You hit a home run with those last two paragraphs yourself.
You hit a home run with those last two paragraphs yourself.
3
When I see that Black people are being shot down by the police in what seems to me record numbers and there is no justice for the victims, I recognize that there is a very deep, serious problem that has not been solved. I also see that Black people may be suspicious of whites who offer solutions.
4
The main reason white men were able to create what they did is because the 'minorities' over at arc of history were not given equal access to equal opportunity.
5
"I asked her if I was back or white. She replied "You are a human being. Educate yourself or you'll be a nobody!"
James McBride, The Color of Water: A Black Man's Tribute to His White Mother
Tags: inspirational
like
James McBride, The Color of Water: A Black Man's Tribute to His White Mother
Tags: inspirational
like
6
Let us unite around a Singular perpetrator that we can vilify for all of life's injustices and have them assume responsibility for all of our life decisions. We shall deny the perpetrator of their rights to speak, their right to respect, their right to retain their earnings and savings, and their right to peacefully assemble.
Let us unite against the heterosexual, Caucasian male.
Let us unite against the heterosexual, Caucasian male.
5
Identity politics is destroying our Democracy for the better and worse.
I LOVE my privilege!! I WORKED very hard for it.
Mr. Bruni, your points are valid as far as they go. But I would be far more impressed with them if more white men actually practiced what they preach, particularly people like you who have a national platform. You say "across a range of American institutions, we need more diversity." I couldn't agree more. So what are you, personally, doing about that other than make pronouncements? Have you sat on a diversity committee at the NY Times? As a distinguished alum of your university, have you made a point to talk to your admissions dean about their outreach to people of color and those who might be the first of their families to attend college?
Frankly, I'm a little tired of the academic discussions and would like to see more people getting their hands dirty in the real work of inclusion. And not just because their stock prices are tanking due to bad press on some very public scandal.
Frankly, I'm a little tired of the academic discussions and would like to see more people getting their hands dirty in the real work of inclusion. And not just because their stock prices are tanking due to bad press on some very public scandal.
9
I admire artists who see beyond their own selves and into the lives of others. They try to understand. I think of Faulkner, racist in his private life, in his art viewing black people with sympathy and grace. I think of Albee, gay though he was, who gave us startling portraits of men and women in their relationships. Both have been criticized. Faulkner can’t know blacks, Albee straights. (Recall those comments about George and Martha really being two gay men? They are not.) Bigelow makes movies about men in action. Are they to be dismissed because she is a woman? Is it possible that the greatest art can come from persons marginalized from the societies they depict? The outsider looking in can have insights that the indisder looking at self might miss.
I think of Paul Scott and his “Raj Quartet,” about the effect of the British being in India on the British. Salman Rushdie criticized the work for not being about the plight of the Indians. But that was not what Scott was holding under the microscope although you get a lot of it through Scott’s view. I admire Scott’s success more than Rusdie’s attack.
I have struggeled, with degress of success and failure, to see people whole. In the late 1960s at Columbia U. a colleague was amazed that I could like persons I differed with (he could not). I took it as a compliment. I still try, although it appears that the world is moving in the oppposite direction. And lately it sems that my failures are beginning to outweigh my successes.
I think of Paul Scott and his “Raj Quartet,” about the effect of the British being in India on the British. Salman Rushdie criticized the work for not being about the plight of the Indians. But that was not what Scott was holding under the microscope although you get a lot of it through Scott’s view. I admire Scott’s success more than Rusdie’s attack.
I have struggeled, with degress of success and failure, to see people whole. In the late 1960s at Columbia U. a colleague was amazed that I could like persons I differed with (he could not). I took it as a compliment. I still try, although it appears that the world is moving in the oppposite direction. And lately it sems that my failures are beginning to outweigh my successes.
7
"My gayness no more redeems me than my whiteness disqualifies me. And neither, I hope, defines me."
A kind human being is not defined by gender, race, nationality, or sexual preference... and neither is an unkind human being. What ultimately defines us is how we treat each other.
A kind human being is not defined by gender, race, nationality, or sexual preference... and neither is an unkind human being. What ultimately defines us is how we treat each other.
7
Or the entire idea of privilege and oppression is bunk and people are using emotion to forward illogical arguments. But whatever.
2
But I question the wisdom of turning categories into credentials when it comes to politics and public debate. I reject the assumptions — otherwise known as prejudices — that certain life circumstances prohibit sensitivity and sound judgment while other conditions guarantee them. That appraises the packaging more than it does the content. It ignores the complexity of people. It’s reductive."
That's an awfully delicate way to call people out for being biased, intolerant jerks.
That's an awfully delicate way to call people out for being biased, intolerant jerks.
6
The same folks who argue biology has no impact on ability and should not influence opportunity are the same folks who argue that biology validates some opinions over others. What hypocrisy.
4
I'm a white lesbian who was born in Ireland but grew up in Ca with a fair amount of privilege, like the writer, starting at 12. I consider myself progressive/pretty extreme lefty. I have a room in my apartment that I mostly rent to males because it is older/funky and doesn't have a sink and mirror in the bathroom and the guys seem to mind less and tend to be pretty low maintenance. Over time I have noticed though that most of these guys, though very nice, inherently have a sense of entitlement that they don't even realize. (We talk about manspreading on the subway in NYC, not womanspreading after all). And I realized that to some black people I have this unrecognized privilege too, regardless of how good my intentions are.
4
You say that there is not a white epistemology and a black one, I agree. But then again, philosophically speaking this only applies if your platonic; if you believe there is one single argumentative reason in social analyses (an ideal truth). If you take a larger structural perspective, a "white" or "black" epistemology can be the manifestation of an agreement upon epistemology as a way of arguing(you must make sense), and within that general agreement a secondary substet can appear (the arguments that make sense in a black or white cultural setting). Those subsets are influenced by the materiality of the segregated life experience. So an answer that can appear evident in one context (let's say go to the doctor if you're sick) might be extremely dangerous and offensive for a person in a similar context but with a different experience (an illegal alien might get deported if they ask for their ID in a hospital).
So, it is not that white people can't talk about black people, it's just that their answers might be grossly inappropriate. Instead of contributing they might be adding noise to an already difficult discussion. In some cases doing nothing or saying little is as a progressive contribution as you can imagine. For instance, Trump should have kept his mouth shut on North Korea instead of playing into communist propaganda. It's good, even if enfuriating, that people tell you "dear white people..." it shows some strategic insight, that is a step forward.
So, it is not that white people can't talk about black people, it's just that their answers might be grossly inappropriate. Instead of contributing they might be adding noise to an already difficult discussion. In some cases doing nothing or saying little is as a progressive contribution as you can imagine. For instance, Trump should have kept his mouth shut on North Korea instead of playing into communist propaganda. It's good, even if enfuriating, that people tell you "dear white people..." it shows some strategic insight, that is a step forward.
4
In my view, your experience with ostracism due to your gay "gender" qualifies you to address ANY discrimination issue as long as you are intellectually honest about it (and you are). Of course, I'm a white male, so am disqualified in any and all respects (silly, i think).
What matters is maturity and intellectual honesty. But, in particular, your gay experience (in the 60'a I suppose) DOES give you the understanding of what it's like to be a "minority."
What matters is maturity and intellectual honesty. But, in particular, your gay experience (in the 60'a I suppose) DOES give you the understanding of what it's like to be a "minority."
3
Show me the person who chose the circumstances of their births -- where they were born, to whom, what color they were, if their families were rich or poor, etc. Show me that person and I'll "honor" everyone else's sense of victimhood.
1
While we're busy arguing about how many "identities" can dance on the head of a pin, the Masters of the Universe are more than equally busy dismantling environmental regulations, slashing their own taxes, and further immiserating those who are already economically miserable. It's the oldest trick in the book: divide and conquer. But why should you listen to me? I'm a white male. Go on about your business, nothing to see here.
8
You are feeding into a black and white, fundamentalist intoleranct viewpoint which is no better than the white supremacist nazi racist world view. That you are gay does not make your views any more or less valid than being a straight white male or any other person. The intolerant tone of your article invalidates all your thoughts. Everyone faces prejudice in their lives. You can be the wrong height, the wrong religion, the wrong gender, wrong looks, wrong smarts, too honest, too corrupt, etc. We need to practice decency and respect towards others, so long as those others practice decency and respect towards us.
5
Epistemology.
The study of how we know what we know.
Personal experience is certainly a part of that. We know how people treat us in the world because we have lived it.
There are other ways of knowing that what we know is true: the authority of deep scientific research; the voice of reason and deep experience; the authority of ancient and not-so-ancient, but well-explored texts; etc.
Let us say that the personal is valid, maybe even its validity is primary. It still is only one way of knowing that what we know is true.
The study of how we know what we know.
Personal experience is certainly a part of that. We know how people treat us in the world because we have lived it.
There are other ways of knowing that what we know is true: the authority of deep scientific research; the voice of reason and deep experience; the authority of ancient and not-so-ancient, but well-explored texts; etc.
Let us say that the personal is valid, maybe even its validity is primary. It still is only one way of knowing that what we know is true.
4
Thank you for saying this. I am a liberal white woman. I recognize white privilege and try to remain aware and sensitive to the needs of those that don't have it.
I also have experienced the oppression that most women fight against, and like you Mr. Bruni, in other decades when things were very different. In the 1970s girls at my school had a separate playground, where you weren't allowed to play with balls, only jump ropes; in the 1980s teachers at my high school were allowed to say in class that girls couldn't understand chemistry and refuse to help them, other teachers could grab and fondle you and informing your counselor only led to you being admonished not to ruin a man's career; In the 1990s bosses at my company could openly discuss your body and make passes at you at company functions, another company I worked for could penalize you for being pregnant. I am not trying to win the oppressed olympics, I am saying that I agree you cannot dismiss the fact that, regardless of the packaging, most people have valuable insights to bring to the table. There will always be those that have it better and those that have it worse. So what? Every person is still a potentially valuable contributor to the conversation.
It is also the responsibility of every single person to work towards fostering the understanding and tolerance that all communities need to thrive. It's not about "what's fair" it is about realizing what is necessary to achieve the outcome you want.
I also have experienced the oppression that most women fight against, and like you Mr. Bruni, in other decades when things were very different. In the 1970s girls at my school had a separate playground, where you weren't allowed to play with balls, only jump ropes; in the 1980s teachers at my high school were allowed to say in class that girls couldn't understand chemistry and refuse to help them, other teachers could grab and fondle you and informing your counselor only led to you being admonished not to ruin a man's career; In the 1990s bosses at my company could openly discuss your body and make passes at you at company functions, another company I worked for could penalize you for being pregnant. I am not trying to win the oppressed olympics, I am saying that I agree you cannot dismiss the fact that, regardless of the packaging, most people have valuable insights to bring to the table. There will always be those that have it better and those that have it worse. So what? Every person is still a potentially valuable contributor to the conversation.
It is also the responsibility of every single person to work towards fostering the understanding and tolerance that all communities need to thrive. It's not about "what's fair" it is about realizing what is necessary to achieve the outcome you want.
9
What about just accepting others as individuals, stripping away the baggage of their race, which could very well be mixed as many people are, their gender, their sexual orientation, especially if one is not about to engage at once in sexual congress with that person, which for most of us is the case...and that would also mean not giving points to people just because some of their ancestors happened to be slaves. Many whites were enslaved in the colonial era, those from Ireland who were sent to the Caribbean and put to forced labor on the sugar plantations, those who worked in mining and manufacturing for a pittance until well into the 20th century. What redress do many of them even ask for? Affirmative action in the workplace needs to go, just as it needs to be abolished in education. It has served its purpose and has now created a reverse caste system deleterious to our society.
7
As a reasonably successful, straight, white male screenwriter I face this dilemma all the time. If I write primarily white male characters then I am being exclusionary and insensitive. If I write black, hispanic, asian, female or gay characters then I am appropriating other people's stories even if they're coming right out of my own imagination.
The obsession with identity politics is unhelpful at a time when our very democracy is at stake. Trump and his ilk represent not only the worst of white maledom, but the worst of humanity. But throwing all white men in the same bin is as bigoted as it would be to suggest all blacks, jews, hispanics, women, gays are the same.
The obsession with identity politics is unhelpful at a time when our very democracy is at stake. Trump and his ilk represent not only the worst of white maledom, but the worst of humanity. But throwing all white men in the same bin is as bigoted as it would be to suggest all blacks, jews, hispanics, women, gays are the same.
15
I've been hearing white men out for 7 decades, and my granddaughter,23 and in her first job after college, is being rudely awakened to the fact that she's going to make less money than men doing the same thing. I was part of a trade union my last 15 years of working, so I did make the same wage as my male co-workers,except for the department heads, always white men. The union didn't willingly let women or minorities in willingly, they had to be taken to court. I've had to listen to white men tell me and other women what we can and cannot do with our bodies. Even gay men who suffer discrimination are usually much better off than their lesbian sisters. We have been listening to white men forever defend themselves as smarter,more competent,stronger etc. and where has it got us? Not too far down the road,considering it's the 21st century.
6
No matter who you are, you can be discriminated against (including by the people who say you can't be because you're in a certain group like white male.)
I'm a white male and I've been discriminated against in the work place (but it might have been because I'm an American and that company's typical employee was not), but as such I didn't think it would be recognized.
I'm a white male and I've been discriminated against in the work place (but it might have been because I'm an American and that company's typical employee was not), but as such I didn't think it would be recognized.
4
Someone wise put it succinctly: by the content of our characters.
4
Frank, one white man to another, your readers deserve better than this.
No sensible person would deny that the way we experience the world marks the way we think about the world. Deep experiences deeply shape our worldviews.
The problem with whiteness is that it's a deep experience that does its work invisibly. Black folks, Muslims, Asians, Latina/os--they know when race is affecting them. They know they live in a country where being not white can kill you. Look at the young black man beaten with poles in a parking lot in Charlottesville yesterday.
You and I have to learn that. We have to learn that other people have experiences that are markedly different from our own. We have to learn why the world looks so different to different people. That's what "check your privilege" means. It undoes the liberal fiction that we all enter the public sphere as essentially the same kind of subject.
Do young people sometimes take that too far? Of course they do. Part of being young is experimenting with politics, figuring out how much is too much.
But as far as I'm concerned, they are doing noble work. We need to be incredibly suspicious of our own reflex to get in their way.
No sensible person would deny that the way we experience the world marks the way we think about the world. Deep experiences deeply shape our worldviews.
The problem with whiteness is that it's a deep experience that does its work invisibly. Black folks, Muslims, Asians, Latina/os--they know when race is affecting them. They know they live in a country where being not white can kill you. Look at the young black man beaten with poles in a parking lot in Charlottesville yesterday.
You and I have to learn that. We have to learn that other people have experiences that are markedly different from our own. We have to learn why the world looks so different to different people. That's what "check your privilege" means. It undoes the liberal fiction that we all enter the public sphere as essentially the same kind of subject.
Do young people sometimes take that too far? Of course they do. Part of being young is experimenting with politics, figuring out how much is too much.
But as far as I'm concerned, they are doing noble work. We need to be incredibly suspicious of our own reflex to get in their way.
11
My eighteen-year-old white son came home from work last night, exhausted from a long day, and we sat outdoors for a little while looking at the stars and enjoying the breeze. "This white supremacist thing in Virginia..." he started out, and trailed off, then took another stab at it: "It's going to keep on like this until everyone stops falling for the arguments that divide us, and we start looking for the things that we have in common as human beings."
He could be off in Charlottesville marching with some young white men who think they are victims and whose only apparent goal in life involves hurting other people to assert their own superiority over them. But instead, he talks about ways to heal the divides and bring people back to the realization that we are all human beings on this planet, with our own thoughts and feelings, and that we do have the choice to care for one another or to hurt each other.
I know what he and I are both going to keep choosing to do. We are going to keep looking for common ground and we are going to not lend any support to people who try to divide in order to conquer.
He could be off in Charlottesville marching with some young white men who think they are victims and whose only apparent goal in life involves hurting other people to assert their own superiority over them. But instead, he talks about ways to heal the divides and bring people back to the realization that we are all human beings on this planet, with our own thoughts and feelings, and that we do have the choice to care for one another or to hurt each other.
I know what he and I are both going to keep choosing to do. We are going to keep looking for common ground and we are going to not lend any support to people who try to divide in order to conquer.
9
In my view, so long as the fundamental lack of integrity at the heart of our country remains unaddressed and left festering (whether it be slavery, the treatment of the indigenous people, forced interment, gay bashing, etc), we will be stuck in a conversation on top of that which has never been healed. We are not whole, not complete, and the expressions of that are obvious and evident in yesterday's tragic events in Charlottesville. It lives on in the language of identity politics.
2
Lilla's answer may still be the best.
My race, sex, parentage, and the era and country of my birth really DO define me in a lot of ways, but they don't define what I say, or what I am capable of perceiving.
I am very different from a South American priest from the year 500 AD, but we are both capable of measuring height, breadth, distance, and time, appreciating beauty, and communicating our impressions about the world.
I am very different from a female professional scuba diver who lives on a boat in the pacific ocean in the year 2121 AD, but I could probably understand and appreciate her descriptions of fish and their behavior.
I feel confident that in the presence of the necessary interpreter services, and in the absence of interference from wacky ideologues, I could at least have a meaningful conversation and exchange ideas of some value with almost any human being.
Perfect objectivity is rare, but the total loss of objectivity, in which facts are subsumed into identity, is also vanishingly rare: maybe it happens in some dreams.
But people who don't recognize or value objectivity are becoming more common, and they make things harder for everyone.
My race, sex, parentage, and the era and country of my birth really DO define me in a lot of ways, but they don't define what I say, or what I am capable of perceiving.
I am very different from a South American priest from the year 500 AD, but we are both capable of measuring height, breadth, distance, and time, appreciating beauty, and communicating our impressions about the world.
I am very different from a female professional scuba diver who lives on a boat in the pacific ocean in the year 2121 AD, but I could probably understand and appreciate her descriptions of fish and their behavior.
I feel confident that in the presence of the necessary interpreter services, and in the absence of interference from wacky ideologues, I could at least have a meaningful conversation and exchange ideas of some value with almost any human being.
Perfect objectivity is rare, but the total loss of objectivity, in which facts are subsumed into identity, is also vanishingly rare: maybe it happens in some dreams.
But people who don't recognize or value objectivity are becoming more common, and they make things harder for everyone.
8
THANK YOU, Mr. Bruni! You've hit the nail on the head.
"You must understand my experience, and you can't understand my experience." Yes, unfortunately, that's the message we hear much too often.
My response is this: did John Steinbeck live the experience of poor whites caught in the Depression? No, yet obviously he understood them. There are a multitude of examples in literature that demonstrate that understanding others, even though their identity and experience are very different than the author's, is possible.
Until everyone removes the chips from their shoulders, true communication - respectful communication - deep communication - won't be possible.
"You must understand my experience, and you can't understand my experience." Yes, unfortunately, that's the message we hear much too often.
My response is this: did John Steinbeck live the experience of poor whites caught in the Depression? No, yet obviously he understood them. There are a multitude of examples in literature that demonstrate that understanding others, even though their identity and experience are very different than the author's, is possible.
Until everyone removes the chips from their shoulders, true communication - respectful communication - deep communication - won't be possible.
13
Anyone and everyone, no matter how much I may wish to, and how hard I may try, I cannot experience what you experience. Nor you me. The best we can do, I believe, is to accept and embrace each other as we present ourselves to each other. No easy task.
5
I'm with you Mr. Bruni.
I am a millennial liberal, but I find the approach of the modern left to be alienating and ultimately defeating.
First, the biggest problem is that this kind of segmentation takes the focus off what should be our primary focus: class and inequality. Addressing the fact that we live in a comically unequal society would also address many other issues.
Second, I resent how I am told to sit down and be silent because I am a white man. I, a man from a broken home wth a drug addict mother who was homeless as a teenager and am shorter than I should be due to childhood malnourishment and pulled myself up and out of poverty, am told by an upper middle class white woman whose family paid for college and subsidizes her expenses in Brooklyn to check my privilege.
Empathy and understanding goes both ways. The whole reason Donald Trump is president is because the left only cares about your real problems if you fit a certain group. And that group excludes, completely, white men.
The truth is that while white men do control things, many white men are voiceless.
In short, it's about class.
I am a millennial liberal, but I find the approach of the modern left to be alienating and ultimately defeating.
First, the biggest problem is that this kind of segmentation takes the focus off what should be our primary focus: class and inequality. Addressing the fact that we live in a comically unequal society would also address many other issues.
Second, I resent how I am told to sit down and be silent because I am a white man. I, a man from a broken home wth a drug addict mother who was homeless as a teenager and am shorter than I should be due to childhood malnourishment and pulled myself up and out of poverty, am told by an upper middle class white woman whose family paid for college and subsidizes her expenses in Brooklyn to check my privilege.
Empathy and understanding goes both ways. The whole reason Donald Trump is president is because the left only cares about your real problems if you fit a certain group. And that group excludes, completely, white men.
The truth is that while white men do control things, many white men are voiceless.
In short, it's about class.
14
Yes and yet... I watched my best friend, a kind man, lose every gay friend and lover he had to AIDS in the 70"s. Devastating. It led to the activism that changed how gay culture is observed by the dominant culture. We are in a better place now, but so many deaths to achieve it.
I don't know how we are going to bridge the gap to speak to one another. I can only believe that the change will have to come from recognizing our common humanity, by patience with the angry and acting out, by continuing to affirm each other's reality, by changing the world. Trump america is certainly not the way. Let's get rid of them first.
I don't know how we are going to bridge the gap to speak to one another. I can only believe that the change will have to come from recognizing our common humanity, by patience with the angry and acting out, by continuing to affirm each other's reality, by changing the world. Trump america is certainly not the way. Let's get rid of them first.
2
Up front let me say that I realize many white men have fought alongside women and people of color for our rights, and we wouldn't have come so far without you. I salute you and am grateful to have you on my side, and I know most of you are good people. But please understand that for far too long, white men have been telling us how we should react to our experiences of oppression, sexism, or racism, that we shouldn't be so sensitive, that we should be patient. Some white feminists have been saying the same things to our black sisters, telling them to step aside or tone down their language in favor of the whole movement.
Well, quite frankly, equality has not yet come to all. Racism and sexism still exist, and I don't blame my black brothers and sisters one bit for being tired of waiting for justice, of being told to put aside their grievances, of being told that they are overreacting, just as I am tired that I still need to refute dubious claims about my biology, and tired of men telling me not to take it seriously.
Yes, you as a gay man have experienced discrimination, but remember that the treatment that you so feared as a youth for being found out is the treatment many women and people of color experience daily, with no escape, since we cannot hide what we are. You may very well empathize with us, you may be be on our side, you may fight beside us, and we may love you for it, but please stop telling us how we should think, and how we should react.
Well, quite frankly, equality has not yet come to all. Racism and sexism still exist, and I don't blame my black brothers and sisters one bit for being tired of waiting for justice, of being told to put aside their grievances, of being told that they are overreacting, just as I am tired that I still need to refute dubious claims about my biology, and tired of men telling me not to take it seriously.
Yes, you as a gay man have experienced discrimination, but remember that the treatment that you so feared as a youth for being found out is the treatment many women and people of color experience daily, with no escape, since we cannot hide what we are. You may very well empathize with us, you may be be on our side, you may fight beside us, and we may love you for it, but please stop telling us how we should think, and how we should react.
8
Brilliantly said, Mr. Bruni. I also recommend "The Liberal Crackup" by Mark Lilla on the recent WSJ editorial page.https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-liberal-crackup-1502456857
Who--and what--do identity politics hurt the most? Liberals and their purported causes. We've seen that vividly proven over the last 10 years at the ballot box, and even further back than that on the streets.
Then why is it so imbibed in? There must be a psychological comfort derived from it that is too addicting to walk away from. But only then will we be able to begin to converse and relate as the equals our founders (and Martin Luther King) envisioned.
Who--and what--do identity politics hurt the most? Liberals and their purported causes. We've seen that vividly proven over the last 10 years at the ballot box, and even further back than that on the streets.
Then why is it so imbibed in? There must be a psychological comfort derived from it that is too addicting to walk away from. But only then will we be able to begin to converse and relate as the equals our founders (and Martin Luther King) envisioned.
2
We do not ourselves need to "understand" another's experience in order to accept their way of seeing it. What we do need is to know when let it be, and work towards a society that provides equal justice and opportunity (and health care) for all.
3
I'm a lesbian, I'm Jewish, I'm white. However, I'm an American first even though there are people out there in this country who would love to tell me that only Christian heterosexuals are real Americans or that it's only white straight people who are Americans, or whatever the preference of the day is. We're American whether we're born here or we become naturalized citizens. Yet in the last 9 months, since Trump won the election I've heard some of the narrowest definitions of what is American than I've ever heard in my life.
Because I feel that my country no longer accepts me as I am I have renewed my passport. I feel that I need a way out of America in case we become as inhospitable to those who don't fit the John Birch Society definition of an American as the Nazis were to Jews, Catholics, Poles, etc. The America I knew is fading and being replaced by an intolerant, boorish, ignorant mindset that is promoted by the GOP and its minions. The party of Lincoln is no longer unless you think of the car rather than the man. Sad.
Because I feel that my country no longer accepts me as I am I have renewed my passport. I feel that I need a way out of America in case we become as inhospitable to those who don't fit the John Birch Society definition of an American as the Nazis were to Jews, Catholics, Poles, etc. The America I knew is fading and being replaced by an intolerant, boorish, ignorant mindset that is promoted by the GOP and its minions. The party of Lincoln is no longer unless you think of the car rather than the man. Sad.
4
This Op-Ed misses a key point: people don't typically claim their views are more valid than someone else until that other individual tries to put them on the defensive. For instance I have never heard a woman tell a man he doesn't understand what it is like to confront misogyny until he or some individual whose view he shares tried to stereotype women in some way. Take the recent Google memo. No one would be talking about the notion women aren't good at math unless a man hadn't promoted that idea, with spurious evidence I might add. People generally want to be perceived and valued as fully formed human beings who transcend a narrow identity. It's when someone else tries to narrow their humanity by typecasting them as a certain identity that they then exclaim "but you can't understand."
5
A brilliant piece, Mr. Bruni. Identity=ego. So long as we are dwelling in ego, we are not dwelling in love.
1
I'm a a (mostly) white man in my early 30's and I've been generally in left-wing circles in elite colleges and big cities for most of my life. I spent time in hyper-liberal academia and was involved in the occupy movement. Although I'd happily see America transformed into a Scandinavian style social democracy, I feel nothing but contempt for the left right now. They have created a culture based around shame that constantly elevates unstable and and narcissistic people to positions of moral authority. Reading about the cultural revolution in China one can't help but think that that is exactly what todays identitarian left would do if they had the power. Their worldview is so full of contradictions that without constant shaming of everyone who questions it it would immediately crumble. Trans people have the brains of the opposite gender to their body, but male and female brains are also identical. Mild social conservatism from white Christians is evil, but much more extreme versions from Muslims can never be criticized. Woman are both incredibly strong and "empowered" and also fragile to the point of possibly being traumatized by a dissenting viewpoint. The people I've known who subscribe to this ideology have mostly been minorities of privileged backgrounds making careers for themselves in academic settings where they were very transparently using their own "oppression" as a way to enhance their own status. If the left can't curtail this movement, it will lose all legitimacy.
20
Of course I get it that being black in the U.S. is harder than being white. I read the papers. I see the evidence every day with my own eyes. I see that one of our greatest Presidents was constantly denied full recognition simply due to his race as a black man.
I have also been a gringo in South America and felt the prejudice on that basis. I was a long-haired kid harassed by the police (Vietnam era) when I was growing up. But I am fully aware it would have been much worse if I had been black.
My point for sharing is that we all have experienced hardship and prejudice, even though the prejudice against a black man is much more punitive than the prejudice against a white man in a poor neighborhood.
Being a white man does not make me insensitive, or evil, or unconcerned. I am an employment discrimination attorney. I represent folks (white, black, men, women) who have been discriminated against on the basis of their particular immutable characteristic.
Finding our similarities, rather than our differences, will help us all.
I have also been a gringo in South America and felt the prejudice on that basis. I was a long-haired kid harassed by the police (Vietnam era) when I was growing up. But I am fully aware it would have been much worse if I had been black.
My point for sharing is that we all have experienced hardship and prejudice, even though the prejudice against a black man is much more punitive than the prejudice against a white man in a poor neighborhood.
Being a white man does not make me insensitive, or evil, or unconcerned. I am an employment discrimination attorney. I represent folks (white, black, men, women) who have been discriminated against on the basis of their particular immutable characteristic.
Finding our similarities, rather than our differences, will help us all.
19
"Identity politics" was pretty much invented by Richard Nixon when he adopted the "Southern Strategy", appealing to the resentments of white southerners toward recently empowered African-Americans to get himself into the White House. Thanks to the extra power that the Electoral College gives to voters in states with small populations (which includes most of the Old South), the GOP has found no reason to deviate from the "Southern Strategy" (combined with disenfranchisement of African-Americans), a strategy which has continued to bring them electoral success despite the elitist politics that they have supported in office.
Nixon also sought the support of the "the ethnics" - Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans - in northern states, stoking their resentment toward more recent African-Americans who'd fled the South and "immigrated" to jobs in an economy that was already starting to feel the effects of automation and outsourcing.
Yet, this label "Identify politics" is now pinned on the Democrats primarily by adamantly "politically INcorrect" (meaning openly racist, homophobic, misogynistic, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-semitic, etc) demagogues in the GOP. Orwell seems to have gotten this one completely right.
Nixon also sought the support of the "the ethnics" - Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans - in northern states, stoking their resentment toward more recent African-Americans who'd fled the South and "immigrated" to jobs in an economy that was already starting to feel the effects of automation and outsourcing.
Yet, this label "Identify politics" is now pinned on the Democrats primarily by adamantly "politically INcorrect" (meaning openly racist, homophobic, misogynistic, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, anti-semitic, etc) demagogues in the GOP. Orwell seems to have gotten this one completely right.
11
I will admit having a tough time even getting past the headline here. I don't generally have a problem hearing anyone out. However, it would be so much easier to swallow this headline if I wasn't so frequently interrupted by said white men (not all, not all the time, just too often). If, when I called someone on this, maybe that person could take a step back, decide if they had committed this (minor) sin, apologize accordingly, and let me finish my thought. If this didn't make me an aggressive, angry woman that would also be helpful. I will listen, read the entire article, weigh the merits of the points made, and be interested and show that interest by asking questions, and making counter arguments. One may have a better voice, or a better chance at having a voice, by ensuring the same, in turn, for their listeners.
8
Can anyone please tell me what percentage is needed to considered minority? With the new tests such as 123andme, most "whites" are finding they have a percentage of African in their genes. What percentage is required to check the box? Is it 5% or does it have to be 50% at least like Obama? Can you see how ridiculous this whole argument is?
3
I would ask us to recognize that we are in the midst of the greatest technological and social revolution that the world has ever seen. We should look at what divides us (identity on every level) vs what binds us (economic insecurity, fear of war, loss of faith in our institutions). It would seem that there are a lot of things that we could work on together, which would build trust and faith so that we can tackle all of the issues. In diplomacy between hostile states, it is call trust building measures.
Think on that approach when next some straight white guy feels that he is not being heard. Ask him what his concern is and then ask him how he thinks that concern affects every American. That is how a conversation is started.
You don't have to talk to idiots or bigots but not everybody is an idiot or a bigot. Many are just scared about the changes that they cannot understand or control.
Praying for peace.
3
If so many in the world are trying to move and live in the US, Canada, Europe, Australian and NZ then white men must've done something right.
How could countries that were basically brought forward by whites be so awful if they are such desired places for others to want to immigrate to?
How could countries that were basically brought forward by whites be so awful if they are such desired places for others to want to immigrate to?
5
When did human identity cease to be afforded to individuals instead of groups?
According to arguments like that of Che Beauchard and the we vs. them politics of the day -- or in Beauchard's terms, the oppressed vs. the comfortable -- an individual's experience, personality, suffering, achievement, belief, apparently have no value. Because all minorities are oppressed, and all white males are comfortable? Because there's no such thing as empathy for others? The fallacy of this argument becomes even more frightening than it is obvious when put into a context of the darker movements of 20th Century history.
According to arguments like that of Che Beauchard and the we vs. them politics of the day -- or in Beauchard's terms, the oppressed vs. the comfortable -- an individual's experience, personality, suffering, achievement, belief, apparently have no value. Because all minorities are oppressed, and all white males are comfortable? Because there's no such thing as empathy for others? The fallacy of this argument becomes even more frightening than it is obvious when put into a context of the darker movements of 20th Century history.
2
Intersectionality has been hijacked to become a tool used to create personal status among the Left. And racism, including blatantly bigoted language, has been made into an acceptable vehicle for this. The loudest and the Left's most favored classes gain moral ability from this new state to silence, attack, and call the mob down upon anyone. Just look at what happened to Rachel Dolezal for example when she challenged the root definitions of this hierarchy. It brought upon her career and social violence on a scale leading many to suicide.
And so today we hear language like "white people are garbage", "white people this and that", etc. used to target primarily white liberals. And it all gets excused by the idea that racism is so wholly structural and institutional that the color of one's skin absolves the use of any of the same racist tools used by the classic racist individuals and structures. "People of color cannot be racist," goes the saying. This is false.
In the end, this developing ruin plaguing the Left will lead to a situation far worse than Bruni seems to avoid hinting at. Impatience with results will kill Liberalism's attempt to remove race from structural decision making processes. So, color blindness is now an epithet. And it leads to a new segregation. For to be white is to have original sin. Little operational difference now exists between the language denoting privilege and that used for racial shaming. We are left with the far Left turning into the Alt-Right.
And so today we hear language like "white people are garbage", "white people this and that", etc. used to target primarily white liberals. And it all gets excused by the idea that racism is so wholly structural and institutional that the color of one's skin absolves the use of any of the same racist tools used by the classic racist individuals and structures. "People of color cannot be racist," goes the saying. This is false.
In the end, this developing ruin plaguing the Left will lead to a situation far worse than Bruni seems to avoid hinting at. Impatience with results will kill Liberalism's attempt to remove race from structural decision making processes. So, color blindness is now an epithet. And it leads to a new segregation. For to be white is to have original sin. Little operational difference now exists between the language denoting privilege and that used for racial shaming. We are left with the far Left turning into the Alt-Right.
7
A few disclaimers here - I am no bigot, am brown, a woman, heterosexual, leading a middle of the road existence.
Now you are a white man ( yes, gay! ) and you get to say, " Hear me out" in the NYT. That is white privilege. Your Whiteness, father's 6 figure salary, home in a rich suburb, private schools, ivy league education together helped being you are. It also helped you come out of the closet more easily, secure. I am not saying there was no anxiety or no fear about the backlash from friends, family and your society. But can a Black, poor, uneducated woman have it as easy as you? That is what I want you to discern. The white privilege is the overriding factor between you and the Black woman. Make no bones about that. As a brown I have to be doubly smart to get up the ladder. For the Blacks it is well nigh impossible, unless they are better than the best.
Now you are a white man ( yes, gay! ) and you get to say, " Hear me out" in the NYT. That is white privilege. Your Whiteness, father's 6 figure salary, home in a rich suburb, private schools, ivy league education together helped being you are. It also helped you come out of the closet more easily, secure. I am not saying there was no anxiety or no fear about the backlash from friends, family and your society. But can a Black, poor, uneducated woman have it as easy as you? That is what I want you to discern. The white privilege is the overriding factor between you and the Black woman. Make no bones about that. As a brown I have to be doubly smart to get up the ladder. For the Blacks it is well nigh impossible, unless they are better than the best.
7
How is conversation ever possible when what one has to say is ridiculed and deemed to be ill-informed, ignorant, prejudiced, suspect or irrelevant simply because the speaker does not appear to comfort with his audience’s self-identification? Whether our differences are because of race or class or religion or political persuasion, is all dialog obsolete except within tribes seeking to gain or maintain ascendancy over other tribes? Democracy can exist theoretically without consensus. But how can communities and nations flourish without conversation and compromise?
2
I treat people based on who they are as a person. I still have biases as all people do.
I want to be treated like an individual as well. I am white but that doesn't make me less of an individual.
Do I have privilege? Sure. Is it unearned? Who, but I, could ever be equipped or qualified to answer that?
And anyone who attempts to answer that question is making gross generalizations about me. It is wrong to condemn a person based on the color of their skin when they are a minority- I believe that that principle should be extended to me as well.
The goal here should be equal opportunity under the law not punish people today for what their ancestors MAY have done (remember: many of 'us' and our families were not involved in slavery, Jim Crow or the disenfranchisement / oppression of ANY people(s)).
I want to be treated like an individual as well. I am white but that doesn't make me less of an individual.
Do I have privilege? Sure. Is it unearned? Who, but I, could ever be equipped or qualified to answer that?
And anyone who attempts to answer that question is making gross generalizations about me. It is wrong to condemn a person based on the color of their skin when they are a minority- I believe that that principle should be extended to me as well.
The goal here should be equal opportunity under the law not punish people today for what their ancestors MAY have done (remember: many of 'us' and our families were not involved in slavery, Jim Crow or the disenfranchisement / oppression of ANY people(s)).
5
It ain't the who you are, its the ideas you have. A bad idea is a bad idea, don't care who says it. However, a good idea is a good idea, don't care who says it. Two ideas I know about are: 1; love is a good idea; and, 2; hate is a bad idea.
A good starting point.
A good starting point.
You have given me a lot to think about, Frank Bruni - and I appreciate your perspective and the "unfairness" of being lumped in as a stereotype. But by the same token, I as a woman of intelligence and talents was lumped all my life as "women are no good at math," "women can't handle management," "women can't control their hormonal responses," and most recently "women are more neurotic so they don't belong in the tech industry." People of color also experienced far more "classification" based on their general appearance, not who they were as people.
So yes, male white privilege has existed over the centuries, unquestionably, and I'm sorry you feel oppressed because you do happen to be different and unique. I can only say, "Join the club."
So yes, male white privilege has existed over the centuries, unquestionably, and I'm sorry you feel oppressed because you do happen to be different and unique. I can only say, "Join the club."
4
If I wanted to give up my ID fixation on being a trans Black American lesbian first and being a good American second, what would my "good American" ID perhaps need to provide me? A sense of personal safety? Health care security? Worker rights? A healthy living environment? Some job stability? Trust in my local law enforcement and courts? A well-maintained infrastructure? Obtainable education opportunities?
Hard not to notice the recent team push in our major media, now that discussions of big Democratic wins in 2018 are bubbling up everywhere, against the "Bernie Bros & Warren Sisters" and their "radical left" ideas and candidate "litmus tests." Nice to see the failed center-right leadership of our national "liberal" party still hasn't figured out how to attract more voters without appearing to do anything "radical" or for "those people." Nice to see--even after Hillary's loss--they're still content to play Distraction Ball on the Republican court where the right makes all the rules.
If you want to reverse the growth of individual IDs, replace them with a functioning national one. If you want all our citizens to be proud Americans, return them some benefits for paying their taxes and obeying the law. But if your leadership's path forward is for everyone to just be a team player--we need to win first, then we'll do something awesome!--then I'd say Trump and the far right have nothing to fear. As 2016 should have taught you, just saying you're different doesn't win elections.
Hard not to notice the recent team push in our major media, now that discussions of big Democratic wins in 2018 are bubbling up everywhere, against the "Bernie Bros & Warren Sisters" and their "radical left" ideas and candidate "litmus tests." Nice to see the failed center-right leadership of our national "liberal" party still hasn't figured out how to attract more voters without appearing to do anything "radical" or for "those people." Nice to see--even after Hillary's loss--they're still content to play Distraction Ball on the Republican court where the right makes all the rules.
If you want to reverse the growth of individual IDs, replace them with a functioning national one. If you want all our citizens to be proud Americans, return them some benefits for paying their taxes and obeying the law. But if your leadership's path forward is for everyone to just be a team player--we need to win first, then we'll do something awesome!--then I'd say Trump and the far right have nothing to fear. As 2016 should have taught you, just saying you're different doesn't win elections.
4
More people regardless of their race, gender, religion, heritage, orientation, political views, economic status, etcetera, etcetera and so on, need to be more responsible in owning up to their own accountability (and their children to a certain age) and of who they are and no one else, period.
This accountability does not exclude overstepping intangible boundaries and any subsequent consequences that may arise, nor does not this include blame, mockery and unfounded stereotypical rhetoric to bluster you own point of view or circumstances.
But we all do this in one shape or form, and any lack of acknowledgement only fuels the vicious cycle we and the media contribute to on personal and institutional levels, which clouds not only judgement but our ability to reasonable solve issues and more importantly, enjoy life as best we can.
This accountability does not exclude overstepping intangible boundaries and any subsequent consequences that may arise, nor does not this include blame, mockery and unfounded stereotypical rhetoric to bluster you own point of view or circumstances.
But we all do this in one shape or form, and any lack of acknowledgement only fuels the vicious cycle we and the media contribute to on personal and institutional levels, which clouds not only judgement but our ability to reasonable solve issues and more importantly, enjoy life as best we can.
This is torturous to read.
One would need to be a psychiatrist to understand it.
My mother and father never finished high school and had little money; probably truly classified as poor much of their life. Their situation no doubt motivated me to earn three college degrees and I consider myself a rational, thinking person, a humanist, concerned with improving the human condition.
I had to work hard for my education and others in my family and life helped me.
This country has it's problems in health care, K-12 education, elitist and corrupt capitalism, etc. You name them. But leaving the teen-age years I looked around, saw what I needed and worked hard to get it.
This moaning and groaning about "identity" is trivial. Work hard for what you want, use your brain to understand the universe, the system you live in and fight against discrimination if it is based purely on some aspect of "identity."
We must fight for more opportunity for everyone, we need to have inclusive capitalism and the media must pour out more truth. And we all must ignore the concept of "identity." It should have no meaning in America. I'm not telling you my race, age, or sexual orientation. Please don't try to guess. I has no meaning in the exchange of ideas- in the growth of mankind, -- maybe that's all this article is saying.
One would need to be a psychiatrist to understand it.
My mother and father never finished high school and had little money; probably truly classified as poor much of their life. Their situation no doubt motivated me to earn three college degrees and I consider myself a rational, thinking person, a humanist, concerned with improving the human condition.
I had to work hard for my education and others in my family and life helped me.
This country has it's problems in health care, K-12 education, elitist and corrupt capitalism, etc. You name them. But leaving the teen-age years I looked around, saw what I needed and worked hard to get it.
This moaning and groaning about "identity" is trivial. Work hard for what you want, use your brain to understand the universe, the system you live in and fight against discrimination if it is based purely on some aspect of "identity."
We must fight for more opportunity for everyone, we need to have inclusive capitalism and the media must pour out more truth. And we all must ignore the concept of "identity." It should have no meaning in America. I'm not telling you my race, age, or sexual orientation. Please don't try to guess. I has no meaning in the exchange of ideas- in the growth of mankind, -- maybe that's all this article is saying.
108
It has no meaning in the exchange of ideas, but it has constant and unrelenting 'meaning' to those who are targeted because of their color, gender, religion, etc. You ask those who are demeaned, attacked, slighted, killed to set aside their 'identities', while you (and Bruni) make no demands on those who are doing the demeaning, attacking, slighting and killing.
This is nothing more than blaming the victims, and demanding that THEY fix the problem. Again.
This is nothing more than blaming the victims, and demanding that THEY fix the problem. Again.
5
-Policy should not take genetics into account unless it is relevant/pertinent (e.g. drug trials only for the applicable group), but people will behave as they do regardless and the policy should be used to regulate them back.
-Policy should be purist. If one group of people can't use a certain word, then generally speaking, no one should. It is impolite, disrespectful, and divides us. But because of different social contexts there may be times when it isn't improper to keep the use and diverge from policy (e.g. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer).
-Past transgressions on a group should play a part when taking action in order to provide an equal playing field, so that history isn't repeated. Actions that try to over-adjust for one group over the other is also a form of discrimination and should be avoided. Be respectful, but including everyone is not always an option (e.g coed bathrooms could potentially be a bother to some)
-No one needs to identify with a group, unless that's their preferred social construct. Instead, their classifications are used to identify/describe them (e.g. eye/hair color on your driver's license). Labels like in marketing are assigned names and should be avoided in professional conduct (e.g. quack [doctor]). It gets confusing when a label and a classification use the same word and that leads to stereotypes (e.g. Man).
-Policy should be purist. If one group of people can't use a certain word, then generally speaking, no one should. It is impolite, disrespectful, and divides us. But because of different social contexts there may be times when it isn't improper to keep the use and diverge from policy (e.g. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer).
-Past transgressions on a group should play a part when taking action in order to provide an equal playing field, so that history isn't repeated. Actions that try to over-adjust for one group over the other is also a form of discrimination and should be avoided. Be respectful, but including everyone is not always an option (e.g coed bathrooms could potentially be a bother to some)
-No one needs to identify with a group, unless that's their preferred social construct. Instead, their classifications are used to identify/describe them (e.g. eye/hair color on your driver's license). Labels like in marketing are assigned names and should be avoided in professional conduct (e.g. quack [doctor]). It gets confusing when a label and a classification use the same word and that leads to stereotypes (e.g. Man).
1
What I have learned (white, privileged, cis, woman), is when it comes to issues of identity to which I don't ascribe, I should stop talking and listen to others. Maybe my opinion needs to be better informed.
7
Speaking as white male, who put myself through college back in the day when tuition didn't cost as much as a three bedroom house, by working full time I'm upset. Apparently all the hard work I've done over the decades is not because of my own effort but due to my race.
This has grown more than tiresome folks this is now threatening the cohesion of the nation. If all societies problems are to blame on this group then surely they must be eliminated. For the lefties here. You wonder why Trump won? A great deal of it was due to your hatred of white males. Yep hatred and it's out in the open now. Go ahead. Break the nation and see what happens next. Hint: you won't like it, not one bit.
This has grown more than tiresome folks this is now threatening the cohesion of the nation. If all societies problems are to blame on this group then surely they must be eliminated. For the lefties here. You wonder why Trump won? A great deal of it was due to your hatred of white males. Yep hatred and it's out in the open now. Go ahead. Break the nation and see what happens next. Hint: you won't like it, not one bit.
9
another destructive identity class manifests itself is the Litmus Test applied to any candidate or person nominated for a government post.
from my limited experience and reading I do not know but strongly suspect it applies not only at the national level but also state, county and even local.
from my limited experience and reading I do not know but strongly suspect it applies not only at the national level but also state, county and even local.
Yes! A nuanced look at the issue of our times... it's about time. We are each individuals with unique experiences, and we are not completely defined by any one trait (e.g., our appearance, race, class, religion, etc). There is only one me and only one you. Generalization, objectification, and demonization of entire groups of people is wrong, period. Time and effort ought to be made to further understand each other and to start to treating each other with greater kindness and love. It starts by getting to know your neighbor... one person at a time.
1
Listen Frank. It is just as wrong for the democrats to divide us by racial experience as is the GOP to divide us by race.
What neither party or side is telling you is that the real power lies NOT with the 'white man' whatever that monolithic mindset means but with the wealthy 'patrician class' who wield actual power in this country.
Therefore, people who divide us on race are not just the racists in the GOP but also the racists in the other party that don't realize that the fight for injustice is not black vs white but super wealthy vs everyone else. Of course we need to fight racism but you don't do that by telling a white person they don't have a right to talk about their experience. You must read history books. Yup, sorry gotta read.
Without reading historical tomes about WWII, you wouldn't know about all the aryan Germans that gave their very lives to save Jewish ones. Same goes for white men who died to free African slaves. History is the great equalizer and we must focus on the real agenda of tearing down the capitalist-fascist formulation of our current hierarchy instead of dividing ourselves by racial experience on which both sides are GUILTY.
Do you think Fredrick Douglass thought he should've shouted down William Lloyd garrison instead of teaming up with that white man who definitely understood his suffering to fight for the abolition of slavery?
The answer is duhhh, you should've read your history. They were a great team when they needed to be. Lesson!!
What neither party or side is telling you is that the real power lies NOT with the 'white man' whatever that monolithic mindset means but with the wealthy 'patrician class' who wield actual power in this country.
Therefore, people who divide us on race are not just the racists in the GOP but also the racists in the other party that don't realize that the fight for injustice is not black vs white but super wealthy vs everyone else. Of course we need to fight racism but you don't do that by telling a white person they don't have a right to talk about their experience. You must read history books. Yup, sorry gotta read.
Without reading historical tomes about WWII, you wouldn't know about all the aryan Germans that gave their very lives to save Jewish ones. Same goes for white men who died to free African slaves. History is the great equalizer and we must focus on the real agenda of tearing down the capitalist-fascist formulation of our current hierarchy instead of dividing ourselves by racial experience on which both sides are GUILTY.
Do you think Fredrick Douglass thought he should've shouted down William Lloyd garrison instead of teaming up with that white man who definitely understood his suffering to fight for the abolition of slavery?
The answer is duhhh, you should've read your history. They were a great team when they needed to be. Lesson!!
5
Isn't this most of the people working at the Times? White, male, grew up middle-class or wealthy, went to private school, definitely went to an Ivy League? How many reporters went to state schools? Or moved there from papers in the Midwest or South? I mean, the Post has a column written by a Democratic congressman's kid - it doesn't get more insider.
6
I keep telling people after the last election that I resign my position as an old white guy. It is too embarrassing anymore
3
(((kumbaya)))? I thought everyone was going to be invited to the party?
Yeah, no. Play the victim card when gay, not when white male. Either we should encounter each other without any baggage, as individuals, or we're all victims of historical oppression and outdated malevolent constructs. Not both.
2
It gets tiring ... this journalistic inclination to establish a false equivalency by claiming that America's indoctrinated undergrads and their Leftie insidious professors threaten the nation.
Get off it. These students are being challenged to ask questions and consider large historic patterns. (Yeah ... colonialism, cruelty, sexism, and lots of other stuff). Oh yes, they can be purists. Good grief, they're still basically teenagers!
Anybody who doesn't imagine a cleansing revolution at age 21 isn't thinking very hard.
David Brooks, a colleague of the author's, also likes to hammer down the message that "politically correct" college students and their professors threaten our democracy because people who preach so hard against "discrimination" and engage in "identity politics," are, in fact, rigid, self-righteous, and intolerant.
Just as bad as sexist, homophobic, xenophobic racists.
Oh come on. You want to compare a sophomore majoring in psyche and history with one of those muscled, mean, racist, pale-skinned, crewcut, torchlit, and potentially violent men in the Charlottesville parade?
Don't do it. Don't try it.
Take a deep breath. Think longer. Undergraduates do not threaten our nation.
Thugs do.
Get off it. These students are being challenged to ask questions and consider large historic patterns. (Yeah ... colonialism, cruelty, sexism, and lots of other stuff). Oh yes, they can be purists. Good grief, they're still basically teenagers!
Anybody who doesn't imagine a cleansing revolution at age 21 isn't thinking very hard.
David Brooks, a colleague of the author's, also likes to hammer down the message that "politically correct" college students and their professors threaten our democracy because people who preach so hard against "discrimination" and engage in "identity politics," are, in fact, rigid, self-righteous, and intolerant.
Just as bad as sexist, homophobic, xenophobic racists.
Oh come on. You want to compare a sophomore majoring in psyche and history with one of those muscled, mean, racist, pale-skinned, crewcut, torchlit, and potentially violent men in the Charlottesville parade?
Don't do it. Don't try it.
Take a deep breath. Think longer. Undergraduates do not threaten our nation.
Thugs do.
9
Sick of political correctedness, enforced diversity, unfettered immigration, the collective lunacy that we can switch genders, having to watch out for "micro aggressions", and all the other 21st-century, vomit-inducing nonsense that makes this country unrecognizable.
4
Many of us recognize that there are least 50% of white people in this country who get it. They understand that this country was secured for white people through violence by immigrants who came in ships with guns. It is they who have secured better conditions for all Americans by fighting along side downtrodden minorities; they did so to help Blacks escape via the Underground Railroad; they did so by fighting for Native Americans, for Jewish people, for Hispanics, women, gays, etc. etc. Many paid with their own lives. The difference between them and other whites is that they do bot see themselves as victims. They are not fearful of an American or a world where America is not the mightiest. There are some commentaries here who want to be considered "white" victims but who deny the right of non-whites to call themselves victims. Is is these people who are making sure America remains a divided country. You cannot feel sorry for yourself if you do not feel compassion for the plight of others. We readily admit that many soldiers come home traumatized. And yet we deny that many people in this country are made to fight each and every day to survive. They have fought for centuries on end for the basic rights to have a place to sleep, food, health care, or to simply be seen as human. They are traumatized, and continue to be so. Maybe try standing with the 50% of white people who have fought and died to move humanity forward. Then you will see how well you are heard.
5
I would love to feel as optimistic as you, but I don't think the data support your "50%" estimate. Exit polls found that 63% of white men and 52% of white women voted for Trump last November. Poll results indicate that 57% of whites absurdly believe that anti-white bias is just as big a problem as anti-black discrimination. We have a long, long way to go, and I don't know how we get there.
2
Bravo Mr Bruni and thank you.
Hard not to hear you out, when you have a catbird's seat on the op ed on one of the nation's major newspapers, Frank.
5
The entire purpose of this discrimination is to create a global dystopia where an extreme few people have all the wealth, privilege, and power over the vast majority of the world, and they are using the class, race, gender, and environmental science warfare to achieve said dystopia. There is no other reason that is logical.
7
Wedge issues are being forced down our throats each and every day.
In this neo-feudal state it's best to keep the peons at each other's throats.
Does not anyone understand this mass manipulation? Courtesy of the press/media sources which are owned by these 1% overlords.
Don't bite the bait.
In this neo-feudal state it's best to keep the peons at each other's throats.
Does not anyone understand this mass manipulation? Courtesy of the press/media sources which are owned by these 1% overlords.
Don't bite the bait.
4
It's fine for professors, college students and columnists to debate theories of identity and privilege. It helps people to understand others' perspectives better, and ultimately, I believe, leads to greater solidarity as Americans.
But we should also recognize that these are intellectual exercises, not rules for behavior in the real world. I have spent my career in academic, government, non-profit and real estate circles in NYC, a milieu that an outsider might imagine is rife with liberal multiculturalism. I have worked for African Americans, Asians, Latinos, men and women and have hired and supervised members of those groups as well. At no time have I felt either exalted or marginalized because of my European heritage. Once people start working for a common goal, whether it be for social justice or the plain old profit motive, identity distinctions quickly fade away and the age-old virtues of intelligence, thoughtfulness and trustworthiness take over.
I have found that living in a multicultural environment is far more liberating than tyrannical. And the most invigorating aspect of it is that real people turn out to be more complex, and think more independently of their demographic identity profiles, than racialists of any stripe would like you to believe.
But we should also recognize that these are intellectual exercises, not rules for behavior in the real world. I have spent my career in academic, government, non-profit and real estate circles in NYC, a milieu that an outsider might imagine is rife with liberal multiculturalism. I have worked for African Americans, Asians, Latinos, men and women and have hired and supervised members of those groups as well. At no time have I felt either exalted or marginalized because of my European heritage. Once people start working for a common goal, whether it be for social justice or the plain old profit motive, identity distinctions quickly fade away and the age-old virtues of intelligence, thoughtfulness and trustworthiness take over.
I have found that living in a multicultural environment is far more liberating than tyrannical. And the most invigorating aspect of it is that real people turn out to be more complex, and think more independently of their demographic identity profiles, than racialists of any stripe would like you to believe.
5
We should judge and be judged by our actions, not our demographics. We cannot afford to be divided by the colors of our skins when there is so much work to be done, and so much we can accomplish if we work together. Don't let the inequalities of race, gender, and sexual orientation that empower the right become a wedge that divides the left.
5
I'm a white man and I'm not going to apologize for anything.
5
please distinguish between conversations about and experience of the effects of positive and negative bias. i am one of those, allegedly few, male straight poor white trash people who clearly understands that had i been otherwise, my life would be far worse. btw, most of us were bernie, not donny supporters.
5
I think the issue is power. Because white males have had (and still do---look at our three branches of government) the power, it is difficult sometimes to listen to their perspective. No matter their experiences, they still have a disproportional amount power in our society and often had it given to them through family privilege. And when they repeatedly use power in the ways that Trump, Republicans, and the Nazis in the south do---to remove voting rights, undermine judges with racist and sexist terms, forcibly remove children from our country without due process, take health care from the poor, and kill a demonstrater with a car----women and minorities and the poor know they will get away with it. When you aren't a white male, things happen to you and you often have no power. When you are a white male you take your power for granted and may not even appreciate that it came to you just because it's always been that way. And then many of you use it to hurt and harm others.
6
"We must not judge a man by the content of his character, but only by the color of his skin" -The New Neo Liberal Democrat Party. Is this progress?
5
OMG! You have a 10,000 column and you equate your speech with commenters with only 1500 characters and a twitter acount? You have no idea that it takes dozens, hundreds of commenters on all forms of social media saying the same just to critique of your one column. And even after those dozens and hundred people push back, you'll still keep your job, your column, your platform and so you can write another "I'm having feelings about you all not accepting my wisdom." column.
9
ummmm Man? you sure about that?
1
I think that many of us have experienced prejudice and bigotry in our lives, both receiving it and feeling it. If I had a dollar for every time someone said that there was a thin person inside just waiting to get out, I'd be rich today, but it hurt, badly. On the other hand, as a young woman (white), I was stopped at a red light in a run-down neighborhood where a group of black teens was on the corner. I was viscerally scared, but they never even looked at me. My prejudice was there, for sure. Finally, I clearly remember the women's lib movement, and today I still sometimes resent men who seem to get everything so easily.
I never forgot these experiences, and I hope they have made me a better person. I believe that we are all equal in potential ability, but it is clear that some people have better opportunities than others. Those who have obstacles in their way--poverty, poor parenting, sub-par schools--have to be extraordinary to make their way past those restraints.
The only way I can think to help the situation on prejudice is to behave as though we are all equal. If we have the means, help those who can benefit from a better education or training.
It is not so much what we say that is important as what we do and how we behave.
I never forgot these experiences, and I hope they have made me a better person. I believe that we are all equal in potential ability, but it is clear that some people have better opportunities than others. Those who have obstacles in their way--poverty, poor parenting, sub-par schools--have to be extraordinary to make their way past those restraints.
The only way I can think to help the situation on prejudice is to behave as though we are all equal. If we have the means, help those who can benefit from a better education or training.
It is not so much what we say that is important as what we do and how we behave.
2
What a beautiful column, perfect food for contemplation by all of us. I am currently engaged in conversation with an old friend who is an evangelical white male who voted for Trump while I am a white liberal protestant female who supported Hillary. We see beyond those aspects as we treasure our long held affection for each other, however, we have avoided conversations about our very different perspectives. We are currently exploring potential bridges with an eye to being able to chat about more than the weather, our families and our activity lists.
6
This is why many thoughtful people have no truck with political correctness.
White privilege is a myth, especially when you venture beyond the world of rich Manhattan Liberals and their kin around the country.
White privilege is a myth, especially when you venture beyond the world of rich Manhattan Liberals and their kin around the country.
4
It was in small town America where getting a loan or living in a certain neighborhood or even burying the dead told real people that it was no "myth" that the system in place favored certain people. Read history.
6
The idea of privilege is less about the amount of monetary wealth you have and more of how society gives you the ability to move freely within it. On average, a white person whose had struggles but worked hard and saved their money to get a loan on a house, for example, is more likely to get that loan than a person of color who has worked equally hard and saved their money. More and more I'm hearing a binary to this argument that white people work hard but don't get any help and people of color don't work hard but get all kinds of help from the system. But ask yourself, if you truly believe that and you are a person society deems as having 'white privilege', would you trade places with a person of color to get the privileges you believe they have?
1
"White Privilege" is definitly a myth ... everybody knows that African-American men are free to drive anywhere in this great country of ours with no more likelihood of being stopped for "changing lanes without signaling" or "broken tail light" than anybody else. Everybody knows that African-Americans were just as able to get FHA mortgages to move to the suburbs in post-war America as anybody else. Everybody knows that African-American children can attend public schools that are just as good if not better than those other children attend (they just don't want to).
You must not know any African-Americans who worry about the time their adolescent son will be stopped by the police and how their son will deal with that - and, they hope, survive.
Yeah, there is no such thing as "White Privilege". After all, slavery was ended 150 years ago, so everything has been as equal as it should be ever since.
Hah.
You must not know any African-Americans who worry about the time their adolescent son will be stopped by the police and how their son will deal with that - and, they hope, survive.
Yeah, there is no such thing as "White Privilege". After all, slavery was ended 150 years ago, so everything has been as equal as it should be ever since.
Hah.
3
I'm a well-educated white female who grew up in a small NH town with little diversity. That being said, I've always considered myself very open minded. I enjoy conversation and love learning more about my world through the insights and experiences of others, regardless of their 'identity'. So, a recent experience left me ruffled. I was having a glass of wine after work and the man sitting next to me at the bar struck up conversation. What seemed like a fairly innocuous conversation took a turn when he declared, "a white woman's mind could never equal that of a black man's."
'"Excuse me?" was the only retort I could muster. He replied, "furthermore, a white woman's mind could never equal that of a black woman's". I should have walked away. But I was both offended and curious. I don't recall the exact context of the conversation that followed, but essentially, what he was driving at was that the lifelong struggles that black Americans face elevate the quality and strength of their character above that of the white women's. He went on to enumerate many of the very real struggles I imagine most minorities face. What was interesting to me was that I felt so dismissed. Did he presume I was somehow 'lesser' because my adversities didn't reveal themselves through the color of my skin? I'm the mother of a severely disabled daughter. I face adversity daily. But his attitude shut down the conversation. We can't let identity politics on a national level do the same.
'"Excuse me?" was the only retort I could muster. He replied, "furthermore, a white woman's mind could never equal that of a black woman's". I should have walked away. But I was both offended and curious. I don't recall the exact context of the conversation that followed, but essentially, what he was driving at was that the lifelong struggles that black Americans face elevate the quality and strength of their character above that of the white women's. He went on to enumerate many of the very real struggles I imagine most minorities face. What was interesting to me was that I felt so dismissed. Did he presume I was somehow 'lesser' because my adversities didn't reveal themselves through the color of my skin? I'm the mother of a severely disabled daughter. I face adversity daily. But his attitude shut down the conversation. We can't let identity politics on a national level do the same.
15
My best to you and your daughter.
Mr. Bruni, thank you.
2
All US Marines are green.
1
Good article. Bad timing.
5
I think that much of this furious reductivism has come about because the writings of French post-structuralist philosophers and their many acolytes have made their way into popular thought and public discourse. The argument that language is an abyss and that words have no meaning other than as signposts pointing to other words leads, ultimately, to a kind of intellectual paralysis. It's also a very seductive argument, because it allows people to say that no one statement about the truth is any better than any other statement about the truth. In this case, if it appears that the difference between your version and mine seems to be ineluctable, then where do you look to decide who wins the day? The answer, evidently, is deciding who has more authenticity: my gravitas outweighs yours, so that's that, I win. So the act of engaging in a dialogue becomes a matter not of exchanging ideas, but of deciding who wins territory. Perhaps if there is a way out of this awful state of affairs, it may be to try to engage in an extended series of Rogerian dialogues, talks in which people focus in talking about what they share rather than about what separates them. We are now deeply stuck in a frenzied war of us versus them. It isn't making anything better. Why not try something different?
3
Ha!Ha! This article made me think about the French Post-Structuralists and authenticity too! I agree that a discourse that seeks to explore the human condition and fosters connection would be helpful.
What all this boils down to is that free speech is a myth in America. If you are a male and proffer an opinion about abortion, you have no standing to even speak about it. If you are a conservative on a college campus, keep your mouth shut and your head down or it will be a long, lonely and possibly dangerous ride. If you believe that affirmative action has negative as well as positive outcomes, you are not only a racist, but a moron and your job is at risk, particularly in Silicon Valley. We are a nation divided by groups who prefer ethnic studies to math, science and studying the classics. That's good for only one thing: teaching us that we are victims. Everyone feels discriminated against and everyone demands recourse. The children and grandchildren of the Greatest Generation now live in a country of victims. How do we get back to our grandparent's mindset?
10
Sorry but I don't understand white pride, black pride, latino pride, etc. you are born with your skin color, lazy, no effort required. Have you accomplished something with your life that you could be proud of?
4
Good job.
2
Thank you, Frank Bruni.
The labels on me are identical to most of your labels.
I don't have he courage and candor -- yet -- to say which of my labels are the same as yours and which are not. Man can or will make assumptions about which of my labels are the same and which aren't as yours by my having made that statement. Your voice of calm can give surcease and reassurance to and for people with many different kinds of labels.
The labels on me are identical to most of your labels.
I don't have he courage and candor -- yet -- to say which of my labels are the same as yours and which are not. Man can or will make assumptions about which of my labels are the same and which aren't as yours by my having made that statement. Your voice of calm can give surcease and reassurance to and for people with many different kinds of labels.
2
If you are a human, why should there be any other labels that count?
To use a label that has currency today, this "conservative" puts no stock in any "label" that you may have in common with Mr. Bruni, me, or anyone else for that matter.
Labels lead to discrimination, and discrimination is wrong at its root.
To use a label that has currency today, this "conservative" puts no stock in any "label" that you may have in common with Mr. Bruni, me, or anyone else for that matter.
Labels lead to discrimination, and discrimination is wrong at its root.
1
No offense, Mr. Bruni. But it's not about you this time.
You're white and gay. Got it.
But have you noticed what's happening?
Or, did you somehow miss the events in Charlottesville, Virgina yesterday?
You may not realize it, but America is in trouble.
And what's happening now is not going to make it great again.
In fact, it will ultimately make losers of us all.
So yes, hear me out.
You're white and gay. Got it.
But have you noticed what's happening?
Or, did you somehow miss the events in Charlottesville, Virgina yesterday?
You may not realize it, but America is in trouble.
And what's happening now is not going to make it great again.
In fact, it will ultimately make losers of us all.
So yes, hear me out.
16
Sorry, not today.
5
Yes, this sounds very tone deaf right about now. I'm a privileged white man?? Perhaps the New York Times should introduce new editorialists every now and then.
4
White men aren't your enemy but continue to demonize us at every opportunity we will be.
8
If this is the biggest complaint WHITE men have in the year 2017 then all the really need is a big hug from a Black man. Come here my WHITE brothers and squeeze tight because I still love you. SMH!
5
Horrible timing, Frank.
4
I was hoping for insight. All there is here is more identity politics. No, Frank, we do not need more diversity. No, Frank, white men did create this country and culture and it was earned. You still have not one clue as to why people like me, a white gay male like yourself, voted for President Trump and completely support his policies and agenda. Lifelong liberal Democrats are leaving the party in droves and you still remain clueless.
5
"No, Frank, white men did create this country and culture and it was earned."
Tell me more about how white men earned wealth produced by black slave labor, the unpaid labor of women, the land taken from Native Americans, and the advantages afforded by control of government, law, and property.
Tell me more about how white men earned wealth produced by black slave labor, the unpaid labor of women, the land taken from Native Americans, and the advantages afforded by control of government, law, and property.
4
Language matters. It was disheartening to see so many educated people could become angry at the thought of "being forced to be politically correct" (later boiled down to "p.c") - when in many cases it should have been termed as just "being polite".
Now it's the newly popular "identity politics" and "victimization" that some are just! so! tired! of. (Don't forget the on-trend "neoliberalism" and "illiberalism". People on the Internet love catchwords!) Some people don't even notice how quickly they pick up the lingo without examining what's behind that lingo - or who it benefits that they pick up that lingo. (Might want to think about that.)
You know who white supremacist Richard Spencer is so tired of hearing about as victims? Jewish people. That's OK with everybody, right?
"Richard Spencer...found nothing wrong with President Donald Trump’s statement that recognized Holocaust Remembrance Day without mentioning the Jewish community...The alt-right ideologue claimed the “activist Jewish community” was only voicing complaints about Trump’s statement because they wanted attention, “It is all about their meta-narrative of suffering, and it shall undergird their peculiar position in American society, and theirs alone.” He deplored the fact that Hitler and the Holocaust has become the “negative moral center of the liberal universe."
http://www.salon.com/2017/02/01/white-supremacist-richard-spencer-defend...
He's a white man. Hear him out!
Now it's the newly popular "identity politics" and "victimization" that some are just! so! tired! of. (Don't forget the on-trend "neoliberalism" and "illiberalism". People on the Internet love catchwords!) Some people don't even notice how quickly they pick up the lingo without examining what's behind that lingo - or who it benefits that they pick up that lingo. (Might want to think about that.)
You know who white supremacist Richard Spencer is so tired of hearing about as victims? Jewish people. That's OK with everybody, right?
"Richard Spencer...found nothing wrong with President Donald Trump’s statement that recognized Holocaust Remembrance Day without mentioning the Jewish community...The alt-right ideologue claimed the “activist Jewish community” was only voicing complaints about Trump’s statement because they wanted attention, “It is all about their meta-narrative of suffering, and it shall undergird their peculiar position in American society, and theirs alone.” He deplored the fact that Hitler and the Holocaust has become the “negative moral center of the liberal universe."
http://www.salon.com/2017/02/01/white-supremacist-richard-spencer-defend...
He's a white man. Hear him out!
8
I think you illustrated Franks point pretty well: Not all white men are the same; We are not completely defined by our appearance.
3
Isn't gender fluid? And if it is, is there a male and female?
I need an urban dictionary to keep up with these articles. It must be exhausting being on the left and having to conform to the "oppressed hierarchy".
I submit that silencing opinions doesn't advance ANY cause. It simply breeds contempt. If you want to change a system it's better to work in that system than to rule in dictatorial fashion.
White men aren't wanted at the table. There is a more than decent chance that a white man owns the table -- and the building.
I need an urban dictionary to keep up with these articles. It must be exhausting being on the left and having to conform to the "oppressed hierarchy".
I submit that silencing opinions doesn't advance ANY cause. It simply breeds contempt. If you want to change a system it's better to work in that system than to rule in dictatorial fashion.
White men aren't wanted at the table. There is a more than decent chance that a white man owns the table -- and the building.
3
I am a conservative, white and privileged, except for the fact that i was orphaned at 17 and had to fend for myself, giving me a perspective and an "excuse" that I will not use, because the truth is, we all have experiences in our lives that give us perspectives that matter and help shape who we are.
That being said, you are right on, particularly with your statement.... "I question the wisdom of turning categories into credentials."
Good job Frank.
That being said, you are right on, particularly with your statement.... "I question the wisdom of turning categories into credentials."
Good job Frank.
15
These comments magnify how locked in and charged our country in resisting any notion of moving on, united by a new vision, to create a new reality, even as we recognize the darkness of our history. Using suffering as a bludgeon will not create a better world. There are principles that can guide us, and a long history of struggle that can inspire us, and those are open to all. There are some things we should leave at the door, or at least put on a shelf, as we attempt to join that struggle.
1
What issues should we leave at the door and put on the shelf? The issues that inform the decisions that create the problems or the problems themselves? Take care of the fire or the flames? Who decides?
Wow. This is absolutely not the day to be taking on illiberalism on the left. Even if no one had been murdered in Charlottesville today, this still would have read like a subtle defense of the Nazis who infested on that town this weekend. The first amendment doesn't guarantee anyone the respect of their audience. Respect has to be earned. If Mr. Bruni or any white male wants his opinion on race to be respected, he'd best keep himself abreast of what his fellow white males are getting up to.
8
A sad state of affairs. 40 years of affirmative action, trillions spent on minority and social programs, reformulated educations systems, re-write of history, hundreds of "outreach" programs and we are apparently worse off than ever. I wonder if it might make sense to question the foundations of our present programs and beliefs. We can make one guarantee. Our present path will not improve the staus quo. I can also assume more of the same will not improve the paradigm.
4
The cure is to abolish affirmative action and discrimination. Eliminating the the latter makes the former unnecessary.
1
You don't understand. No one on the left cares about your character. No one cares that you've done nothing wrong to anyone. In order to sew division among the people, one group must be made to believe they are being victimized by another. One group must be blamed for things they didn't do so that the other group can justify hating them. This isn't something random or accidental. Minorities and special groups are being brainwashed to think all white people--especially straight white males--are evil, and the source of all their ills. It doesn't matter than it isn't true.
6
How have white males been brainwashed to believe that they are superior and are also being victimized?
3
White people who have a reflexive need, inspite of their true decency, to rationalize the deep discriminatory practices in our country is a big problem. Race, for now, sometimes needs to be considered when all things are equal, not a coin flip.
Liberals are forming another caste system like India. Diversity has become a religious cult, where the adherents worship its "beauty and purity". The white man is of course the devil, the oppressor that must be silenced and destroyed.
Anyone who speaks out against the cults beliefs is labeled a heretic (racist, transphobic, homophobic, etc) and burned at the stake by media and social media. Attacked by Antifa at rallies. Or simply censored.
The ideas the cult espouses are truly dangerous to freedom : equality of outcome over equality of opportunity, science denial (race and gender are a social construct, except for purposes of government aid), hugs to terrorists, mass immigration until social and economic collapse, promoting lawlessness by ignoring inconvenient laws, and a group of people that are evil and must be attacked (the rhetoric against white people reminds me of Jews in Germany, blamed for all problems).
Anyone who speaks out against the cults beliefs is labeled a heretic (racist, transphobic, homophobic, etc) and burned at the stake by media and social media. Attacked by Antifa at rallies. Or simply censored.
The ideas the cult espouses are truly dangerous to freedom : equality of outcome over equality of opportunity, science denial (race and gender are a social construct, except for purposes of government aid), hugs to terrorists, mass immigration until social and economic collapse, promoting lawlessness by ignoring inconvenient laws, and a group of people that are evil and must be attacked (the rhetoric against white people reminds me of Jews in Germany, blamed for all problems).
8
It seems to me, a white, college-educated male, that one's identity does not define the limits of one's perceptions. One does not have to directly experience something to understand it. My gender does not preclude my understanding the problems that women face in the workplace. My race does not make it impossible for me to see that racism exists. My education does not prevent me from understanding the economic problems faced by those who did not graduate from high school.
I am appalled by the rise in misogyny, racism, and economic inequity that I see in America today. I vote for candidates who fight these trends. I donate to organizations that try to ameliorate these problems. I want to see these problems addressed and solved, even though they do not directly affect me.
When I was actively politically involved, we all marched together to fight institutionalized sexism, racism and classism. Today, many want to point an accusatory finger at anyone not in their identity group. As a result, we are fractured and less able to effect needed change. We must broaden the boundaries of our identity groups to include those who think alike, even if we don't look alike. United we can stand; divided we will fall.
I am appalled by the rise in misogyny, racism, and economic inequity that I see in America today. I vote for candidates who fight these trends. I donate to organizations that try to ameliorate these problems. I want to see these problems addressed and solved, even though they do not directly affect me.
When I was actively politically involved, we all marched together to fight institutionalized sexism, racism and classism. Today, many want to point an accusatory finger at anyone not in their identity group. As a result, we are fractured and less able to effect needed change. We must broaden the boundaries of our identity groups to include those who think alike, even if we don't look alike. United we can stand; divided we will fall.
22
Ah Ha! Hoist with his own petard...
Welcome to the Leftist Socialist Utopia. Grand, isn't it?
9
Above all, I cherish freedom of speech. I cherish the ability to speak my mind and be able to discuss rationally what I believe, to listen to other points of view, work through differences, agree to disagree. Placing labels, name calling, guilt tripping; these are all the tactics of the silencers and of those who are not interested in freedom of speech but are looking to a country where everyone toes the same line and thinks the same way. If we can't speak openly what we believe, disagree without being demeaned and insulted, then this isn't the Democracy that I thought we had.
18
One point that is rarely recognized is that while the power May be held by old, white, men, that doesn't translate to all older Americans, or all white people or all males, and especially all old white men having now or previously any level of privilege. During the Depression, my father had to leave school at the ninth grade to help his family survive. At the turn of the last century, my grandfather, growing up in a W Va coal company town, was pulled from school when he was 12 because he was big enough to work in a factory. At 16, he was deemed strong enough to move to a job digging coal. He ran away, lied about his age and enlisted in the Navy during WWI. While certainly no anything like the brutality of slavery, my family tree isn't one of privilege. Yet neither my grandfather nor my dad felt owed anything. From the first day of their first (childhood) job, neither of them spent a day unemployed or retired.
10
Today's "leftists" don't like old people, and having what used to be called "character" is out of style.
Good column. Everyone knows of the logical fallacy of ad hominem:
"short for argumentum ad hominem, is in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself." (Wikipedia)
There is really nothing else to be said--the truth of a position doesn't depend on if asserted by a white, black, brown or green person.
"short for argumentum ad hominem, is in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself." (Wikipedia)
There is really nothing else to be said--the truth of a position doesn't depend on if asserted by a white, black, brown or green person.
12
It is just this sort of tribalism that loses elections, and will hand Republicans victories in 2018 and Trump his second term in 2020. Like the ghost of Christmas Yet To Come, this fate will attend us all, social grievances and identity politics be damned.
As Ben Franklin, yet another old dead white guy, said (it's what he said that's important here): if we do not hang together, we will surely hang separately.
As Ben Franklin, yet another old dead white guy, said (it's what he said that's important here): if we do not hang together, we will surely hang separately.
11
This article could not have been printed at a worst time. Yesterday, we saw what white rage looks and feels like. We've seen it many times before. And yet the NY Times posts this mediocre piece of writing the day after white supremacists, other aggrieved white men and WOMEN who feel they aren't any more privileged than they deserve to be, wreaked havoc on an American city. I love this newspaper but this article being posted on this day makes me want to cancel my subscription.
The last thing we need is to read more white people trying to win the victim Olympics. Trust me, you guys (and gals) are going to be just fine.
The last thing we need is to read more white people trying to win the victim Olympics. Trust me, you guys (and gals) are going to be just fine.
19
My husband is white and amazingly unable to recognize what that has done for him. But I think that some black activists are similarly blinded by their assumptions and are failing to accept that those of their people who are in poverty need to improve their skills or their children's skills and avoid the gangster stereotypes that hold them back. It's 150 years since Emancipation and 50 years since the Equal Rights movements. Other groups facing discrimination have pulled themselves out of it.
7
Stationed at Ft Bliss in El Paso in the 60’s I used to catch the bus back to the base at a place then called Alligator Park. The park was a known place for “cruising.” I’m not gay and once I learned that you couldn’t “catch” homosexuality, I was no longer homophobic. I chose the park as my bus stop because all of the drunken straight GI”s didn’t want to be associated with the “gay park.”
Two gay men were cruising, it was getting late and neither had scored. They stopped in front of me and one said what about him (meaning me); the other responded angrily, “But he’s colored!”
Gays are racist too. It became very clear when in the early days of AIDS, race became the diving factor when funds were allocated to groups. Whites were alluding to themselves as “Gay” and Blacks were “faggots.”
I’ve always read your column and sexual preference was never the first thing I thought. Being “gay” isn’t a license to speak about race without some internal checks just like the rest of us have to consider.
Everybody’s views—Black, white, rich, poor, straight, gay, liberal or conservative—get weighed on their content. Go back and rewrite; remove being gay as your ticket to speak for white men.
Then evaluate what you have to say.
Two gay men were cruising, it was getting late and neither had scored. They stopped in front of me and one said what about him (meaning me); the other responded angrily, “But he’s colored!”
Gays are racist too. It became very clear when in the early days of AIDS, race became the diving factor when funds were allocated to groups. Whites were alluding to themselves as “Gay” and Blacks were “faggots.”
I’ve always read your column and sexual preference was never the first thing I thought. Being “gay” isn’t a license to speak about race without some internal checks just like the rest of us have to consider.
Everybody’s views—Black, white, rich, poor, straight, gay, liberal or conservative—get weighed on their content. Go back and rewrite; remove being gay as your ticket to speak for white men.
Then evaluate what you have to say.
9
It seems like a way out of the identity quandary is to emphasize a higher quotient of suffering for certain races as a distribution based on the nation's history. Framing it this way allows people to attend with special attention to members of a group that have historically experienced more discrimination.
But the advantage of the distribution-of-suffering-being-higher-on-average approach is it also avoids a central fallacy of identity politics: The absolutism in the planted axiom that any randomly chosen person A from race B has suffered more than any randomly chosen person C from race D.
If suffering is a common strata to all humanity, and only differs on the average/distributional level, then one can never say with certainty if someone from one race has suffered more than a person from another race with any certainty, regardless of distributional averages.
Instead what we might say is that one race is "red-shifted" or "blue-shifted" (no political pun intended) with respect to another race in terms of suffering, but that we must also strive to treat each individual as an individual since we never fully know their story.
But the advantage of the distribution-of-suffering-being-higher-on-average approach is it also avoids a central fallacy of identity politics: The absolutism in the planted axiom that any randomly chosen person A from race B has suffered more than any randomly chosen person C from race D.
If suffering is a common strata to all humanity, and only differs on the average/distributional level, then one can never say with certainty if someone from one race has suffered more than a person from another race with any certainty, regardless of distributional averages.
Instead what we might say is that one race is "red-shifted" or "blue-shifted" (no political pun intended) with respect to another race in terms of suffering, but that we must also strive to treat each individual as an individual since we never fully know their story.
3
Liberal media refuses to address the real problem. The real issue has always been money and jobs in a capitalist society, just because the limosine liberals of all colors are destroying jobs as we speak don't, throw the blame on "whitey". People of color with money have been received with open arms around the world since the beginning of time. Look to our or Britains Universites, if your daddy was a Maharajah, an African War Lord or a Chinese or Greek gangster posing as a businessman it was come on in Abdul you're one of us. To deny this is a lie. It's not about the color of your skin it's how much of the green you got. Our completely inept leaders are unwilling to do anything to correct this imbalance in our winner take all society. I am sick of having white people admonished in the country their forefathers created if you don't like it here go back to your own nations, have a revolution and work things out the hard way just as our forebearers did, it wasn't easy a revolution, a civil war, helping Europe in their wars, saving Europes Jews along the way. Race baiting is just another side show the problem is inequality and that is something that has been allowed to run a mock for the last forty years. Even the "opioids crisis", there have always been problems with people abusing themselves, if they were rich people doing drugs they would be "playboys", if they're poor people whose factories were closed they're unemployable whitetrash! It's the jobs and inequality stupid!
13
Bingo! One point about opioids: The opioid problem began during the Obama Administration. Remember when Obama stated that seniors were a waste of medical resources, and they should just take a pill for back, hip and knee pain, instead of having costly surgery? Well, millions of seniors did just that. I know, because my late husband was one of them. Guess what kind's of pills were prescribed? Answer - opioids, which are effective against severe, intractable pain. But your larger point is so spot on. I see few similarities between today's so called "Nazis" and the German Nazi party in the 30's, except for economic parallels. People whose possibility of making a living has been removed (offshoring), and who experience discrimination and rejection and discounting from the culture and people around them, will become angry, and I think this applies in both cases.
5
The "inequality" you bemoan is an element of the natural selection inherent in capitalism. Just as aggressive business practices will propel one further and faster than being meek and mild, we have to accept that despite these factors (I refuse to call them negatives) in the ling run, capitalism is far better than any other system.
2
I disagree with your assumption. It isn't about jobs or the economy. It is about entitlement and ego. It's about hating someone else so you feel better about yourself. These wretched sorts think they deserve an easier path in life because of they are white. But rather than do the work, they take an easier path, hating others to make themselves feel better.
The role of individual perspective on argumentative conclusion cannot be overstated. And the danger of relying on the identity (a subset of individual perspective) of ourselves and others is that it leads to broad brush acceptance or rejection of ideas, and worse - entire groups of people. A segment like "I’m a white man, so you should listen to absolutely nothing I say, at least on matters of social justice" illustrates this perfectly. While that statement was a teaser and the author makes the case he should be listened to, he justifies it with the qualifier of yet another identifier. Wisdom is wisdom, and isn't the quality of any particular group. Very dangerous to draw conclusions about an individual based on superficial cataloguing of their visible identifiers. All perspectives are valid. The problem is when individuals feel free to reject wholesale the perspectives of others. In that case, yes indeed - feel free to ignore them, no matter their identity. There are saints and sinners of all stripes. If you don't understand that, live long enough and you will.
6
thank you.I am tired of hearing "white male privilege" disqualifies me or reduces my accomplishments to genetics/class.Not only does it silence my voice, it also silences my willingness to listen and think, as Mr. Bruni says. Even more important, assertion of this "while male privilege" is factually wrong at its core. I am a first generation college graduate and an only post grad in the entire history of both sides of my family. I have had no help thru "historical networking", no help as a result of bags of money(there were none),and I was forced to work like a dog 7 days a week, almost 365 days a year for over 35 years . No college connections got me into college, no networking system to help me develop my legal practice--it was sink or swim. I have mentored many on my way up, and continue to do so to those who think I have something of value to offer. You would be wise to listen , not assume I have nothing to offer because I am white, or I am a male.
13
In an earlier op ed, Mr Brunei wrote about how people use the vast sources of news on the internet to filter down to what becomes an individuals "tidy echo chamber of affirmation". Living in these information silos is dangerous. Dismissing views of others simply because that person hasn't walked the exact path of the reader is dangerous as well.
Congressional dysfunction can be attributed partly to folks who believe they must maintain their rigid postures, or all is lost. More accurately, all is lost from that rigid posturing.
Time to listen up folks!
Congressional dysfunction can be attributed partly to folks who believe they must maintain their rigid postures, or all is lost. More accurately, all is lost from that rigid posturing.
Time to listen up folks!
7
You note that the "check your privilege” exhortation asks us to be aware of systemic injustice and systemic inequality.
Because "check your privilege" has begun to function as a verbal fist to the face in our society, we should consider finding a more plainspoken way to remind ourselves that history is what it is, involves systemic injustice and systemic inequality, and reverberates today.
Just this past week I've concluded that what we really need to check when we weigh in on these matters is the trajectory and aim of our efforts. Would an objective observer conclude based on our actions that we are grownups who aim to embrace equality and dignity for all? Or would such an observer conclude that we aim to maintain a system of categorical identities while we continuously jostle and maneuver for advantage on behalf of the tribe with which we identify?
History and human nature being what they are, a period of overcorrection is understandable and was probably inevitable. But surely the time has come to check and correct our aim, if equality and dignity for all in a world run by grownups is what we're truly after.
Because "check your privilege" has begun to function as a verbal fist to the face in our society, we should consider finding a more plainspoken way to remind ourselves that history is what it is, involves systemic injustice and systemic inequality, and reverberates today.
Just this past week I've concluded that what we really need to check when we weigh in on these matters is the trajectory and aim of our efforts. Would an objective observer conclude based on our actions that we are grownups who aim to embrace equality and dignity for all? Or would such an observer conclude that we aim to maintain a system of categorical identities while we continuously jostle and maneuver for advantage on behalf of the tribe with which we identify?
History and human nature being what they are, a period of overcorrection is understandable and was probably inevitable. But surely the time has come to check and correct our aim, if equality and dignity for all in a world run by grownups is what we're truly after.
10
The exhortation that we should eliminate "identity politics" overlooks the fact that each of us are shaped by unique life experiences. It promotes the idea that one size fits all and that each of us are equally affected by generalized solutions, which is untrue. For example, it is counterfeit (at best) to hear a man describe the female experience and propose that he is equally qualified to speak to the issue of gender equality. He simply is not. That does not mean he cannot contribute to the discussion, but to pretend we all possess the same lived experience and insight is spurious. And individuals who have similar shaping events and identify as such are often essential to the effectuation of change when they operate as a group to promote awareness of their shared struggle and interests. I am reminded of Martin Luther King and the civil rights struggle in the sixties... That, dear friends, was identity politics.
2
I'm not sure that Mr. Bruni would disagree with much of what you say, Louise; but I believe he is making a long-overdue argument for paying attention to the other half of the equation, which is our shared human-ness. We all breathe, sleep, love, strive, feel pain and joy, anger, hunger (physically and spiritually)---this is what it means to be human beyond our egoic identities, and it remains the most fertile ground for hope and progress as a species. We are at our best when we operate in this field (forgiveness, humility, sacrifice, co-operation), and we ignore this part of ourselves at our peril, esp. as we face increasingly global problems, like climate change....
2
Being a white male is one experience among all the rest. Yes--anyone can claim that their experience gives them a clearer picture of what it is like to be x. But the only thing that ever matters (and Bruni notes this is what used to be taken for granted) is "this is what I think and here is my argument for it." Experiences are not the end of the story, they are the beginning of an argument; and arguments still have to be valid. And for the record: 'validity' and 'logic' are not patriarchal concepts.
5
It's all about division. Either you take the bait or you don't. And the term privilege has got to go. It was initially used to be provocative; to stir people into anger. Privilege suggests a special right. No. It's the rights all people should have and its benefits shared amongst all peoples. It's not a privilege to not get shot by police. It's something no non-violent unarmed person should have to worry about.
10
As a high school humanities educator, I try to address inequality from a cultural and systematic perspective so that my students understand that I am not accusing them, as individuals, for the inequalities that plague us. It's imperative that they understand how the world was and is shaped so that they can consciously choose how to enter the culture/conversation as emerging adults. I do my very best to help them develop an informed voice built on studying great thinkers and writers and EACH OTHER. I find that they come to recognize the validity of each individual and the varied identities they each possess, some privileged and some oppressed. When groups of students attempt to silence others for those identities or because of their own (which is rare once they understand they aren't being judged) I allow students to point out the hypocrisy of this silencing. Eventually most students learn that recognizing each other's humanity is not only the key to civility but community. I've found this approach helps create respectful, honest and highly engaged adults who see it as their responsibility to ensure equality in our culture.
4
Beautifully said, Frank. Our national discussion needs to refocus on our common humanity
10
First, thank you Frank. Dead on. Second, I guess I will never get identity politics if it is about our anecdotal experiences and how we feel. That kind of thinking is how we got the alternate realities many live in that tolerates alternate facts. But there is only one reality and one set of facts and regardless of our past experiences, color, or sexual preference, it seems to me that there is only one truth. Do you have to be black to understand systemic racism? Do you have to be poor to understand the world isn't fair? Do you have to be gay to understand human rights? I think not and all that should be competing is ideas not identity.
13
After reading and appreciating your fine column, I was greatly disappointed to read some of the angry, ignorant, and downright nasty responses. In this increasingly suffocating environment of "me, and only me," "we" seems to be shrinking away as a goal. The lack of tolerance and capacity to discuss our differences and commonalities is destroying our society and country. We are better than this.
18
I'm not sure that anyone who lives in this country gets a pass on racism. There are differences of degree and intent, but I think we all react through 'identity' filters. I like to think I exercise good will toward others, regardless of whatever 'group' they fall into. But it takes vigilance, given the cultural microbiome.
Trump and his ilk (this has long been the brand of the Republicans - since the passage of the Civil Rights Act) tee off on racist impulses and stoke fear. His followers, given their utter resistance to logic and empathy in the face of Trump's miserable record as a leader and feeling human, seem to have abandoned good will: The social contract that once helped to define us as a nation seems to have evaporated.
Fully aware of the irony of the phrase, I want my country back.
Trump and his ilk (this has long been the brand of the Republicans - since the passage of the Civil Rights Act) tee off on racist impulses and stoke fear. His followers, given their utter resistance to logic and empathy in the face of Trump's miserable record as a leader and feeling human, seem to have abandoned good will: The social contract that once helped to define us as a nation seems to have evaporated.
Fully aware of the irony of the phrase, I want my country back.
8
Identity politics ultimately dehumanizes. At its worst it devolves into intellectual bullying and intimidation and guarantees a permanent politics of resentment. In a prolonged period of ruthless globalization and economic decline, insisting that "privilege" must be the only lens we can use to analyze our politics assures that the tribes will remain at each others throats indefinitely while the global corporate elites take over major national governments, including ours. It's an old game. When we have finally silenced white men - as a uniform class of people - over their privilege, we can all look around as brothers and sisters at the political wasteland we have created and continue to accuse each other. But as a hated SWM, I will not be silenced.
9
If a person from identity group A says "2+2=5"
And a person from identity group B starts to say "2+2", and then gets shouted down because everyone knows that group B are oppressors, we have a serious problem. Seems to me that often happens today.
And a person from identity group B starts to say "2+2", and then gets shouted down because everyone knows that group B are oppressors, we have a serious problem. Seems to me that often happens today.
13
Ideological purism makes you feel good in the classroom where the life consequences of what you are saying extend not much beyond your self satisfaction or the paper you write that shows how right you are.
(I know about this from experience, I was a college professor.)
But ideological purism also gets you Ralph Nader in Florida, it gets you those 400 give or take votes that Al Gore needed to clinch the Electoral College, it gets you Bush v. Gore, it gets you the Iraq war.
Ideological purism gets you Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein, it gets you believing the disinformation of the other side because it reinforces your own disinformation, it gets you a non-popular vote winning Trump and that gets you the dismantlement of every program that might benefit your cause or indeed, the lives of all of us in the whole of the rest of America.
When young people believe that only me can speak for me, we get where we are, verging on the abandonment of the power of a majority. One thing is true in all this: the majority of Americans agree with progressives on most issues (they prefer clean air, water, recognize that immigration is a national good, etc.), but they also might not like being lumped into the class of privileged oppressor by virtue of their own accidents of birth.
It's human nature. When you are told you can't help because you don't understand and therefore have no way to empathize, you might just throw up your hands and walk away.
(I know about this from experience, I was a college professor.)
But ideological purism also gets you Ralph Nader in Florida, it gets you those 400 give or take votes that Al Gore needed to clinch the Electoral College, it gets you Bush v. Gore, it gets you the Iraq war.
Ideological purism gets you Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein, it gets you believing the disinformation of the other side because it reinforces your own disinformation, it gets you a non-popular vote winning Trump and that gets you the dismantlement of every program that might benefit your cause or indeed, the lives of all of us in the whole of the rest of America.
When young people believe that only me can speak for me, we get where we are, verging on the abandonment of the power of a majority. One thing is true in all this: the majority of Americans agree with progressives on most issues (they prefer clean air, water, recognize that immigration is a national good, etc.), but they also might not like being lumped into the class of privileged oppressor by virtue of their own accidents of birth.
It's human nature. When you are told you can't help because you don't understand and therefore have no way to empathize, you might just throw up your hands and walk away.
10
I'm neither white, black, brown, or yellow. Nor am I a man, woman, straight, gay, bisexual, or transgender. Yet growing up in Hialeah, and living in New York, Boston, Yuma, and Atlanta, people would always try to classify me.
For the record, and submitted on the last two census', I'm human.
For the record, and submitted on the last two census', I'm human.
5
I know a beautiful girl. She is gay, grew up at the fringes of the middle class, and her sweet dad was not present a lot of years and a drug addict. Her mother waited tables and died in her forties of liver disease. Another man is brilliant, but has less than a semester of college. He went to what would have been called in my dad's day a reformatory, this one with a religious connection. I have heard both of them call themselves privileged, and I am both moved and touched that they feel this way. But I also want to say: no, you're not. Nobody paid for my male friend's college. He served in Desert Storm. And I love that they are such warm, compassionate people who want to make things better for other people. But I can also see how others with similar backgrounds don't quite get it when they are called privileged, when they struggle to find jobs with stability and are always worried. Would it be even harder if their skin color was dark? In some places, absolutely, but would it be harder to be an African American suburbanite with a pool in the back yard, shiny band instruments, and a college fund? But yes, "guardians of purity." And it's divisive. You are right. It doesn't help anybody.
8
Identity is not always insight. And to race, class, gender, I think we should add age--which does not always bring wisdom. As a veteran of the privilege wars, I do get impatient, at 60, with those who use personal circumstance as an excuse for cutting in line, so to speak. You would not believe the number of therapists, counselors, support staff, advisers, and administrators devoted to the emotional life of my school's students. When I was a student at the same institution, back in the Seventies, just after coeducation hit, there were almost no women's bathrooms on campus (apparently in the hope that we would all get kidney infections and go away), hardly any female faculty, open hostility or condescension from the majority of male faculty, and alums who would walk right up to you and say, "I just want you to know, I think letting girls in here is a huge mistake." The might of the Eastern Establishment was unquestionably ranged against us; the mutual aid pacts that have benefited Ivy men for centuries, obviously withheld. If any identity police would care to endure those conditions, let's talk. Until then, get busy; learn, produce, publish, kill them off at your leisure, but the victim card is even less attractive when, in the context of social history, your traumas are petty, even bogus.
4
I once read that some Native Americans didn't trust the written language because it separated the words from the person behind them. How can you understand any scribblings when you don't know the character of the person who scribbles them? Anything we read or hear should begin with the identity of who it is who asks for our attention - not just their color, religion or sexual orientation but who they are as a person and what they stand for. Who it is who speaks creates the color and font of the ideas they share.
2
Hooray, Frank. Good piece. Thoughtful. Careful. Accurate....in my opinion. And all of you need to know that I'm a 77 years old white guy from rural America. For all that that matters. Not much, again in my opinion, and in Bruni's. I used to be privileged, but now am old, and have willy-nilly lost privilege: it is fascinating to NOT be paid heed in a crowd anymore. NOT to be listened to, after a life time of being heeded and listened to. So: we all get our time in the barrel. We'd be better of being compassionate and open to everyone's experience, and heeding it, and them, and judging careful but for ourselves.
TCB
TCB
4
A superbly written piece that advocates for mutuality and equality in assessing each others’ views, and therefore advocates for the fundamental equality, morally, of all humans. A compelling, humanist argument for what should be self-evident to all. Prepare to be mercilessly attacked.
6
There are many stories in these comments of white males growing up in abject poverty, yet rising above their circumstances to be successful members of society. I don't know if being white helped, but their pain was real nevertheless. I know this because I grew up in a house with no running water, a hand pump at the sink for water to cook with, an outhouse in the back yard for a toilet, and in sixth grade no real friends because I was told I stunk (my science teacher pretty regularly used that word). Then my father had a debilitating stroke and my mother took off, leaving my 13 year old sister to take care of us.
Help came in various forms and today I am a nearly retired university professor with a long successful career behind me. It wasn't easy to get that career going either, with long hours in the lab and at the typewriter (in those days).
Over my career I have used my knowledge and influence to help more than 20 female scientists start their careers, both in academia and in industry. I understand the needs of equality in the workplace and have tried to do my part to see that we get there. But the road for many of us can often be long and hard.
When I was in university, I had a native American friend who often used the expression "walk a mile in someone's moccasins" in order to understand their life. I totally ascribe to that, but I also know that my moccasins need to be walked in as well.
Help came in various forms and today I am a nearly retired university professor with a long successful career behind me. It wasn't easy to get that career going either, with long hours in the lab and at the typewriter (in those days).
Over my career I have used my knowledge and influence to help more than 20 female scientists start their careers, both in academia and in industry. I understand the needs of equality in the workplace and have tried to do my part to see that we get there. But the road for many of us can often be long and hard.
When I was in university, I had a native American friend who often used the expression "walk a mile in someone's moccasins" in order to understand their life. I totally ascribe to that, but I also know that my moccasins need to be walked in as well.
8
Trying to silence people based on their identity is an elite power game. In a society that will have a significant white majority for decades to come, clearly a strategy of dehumanizing the majority is not a rational way to win the broad based support needed to advance a cause. But it often is an effective way to gain power in a narrower context, to gain a position within the elite or advance oneself within the elite. People who push this approach need to be ask themselves and be asked by others what they are really trying to achieve.
5
Bruni's column is right on target.
Because the focus on identity inequality distracts liberal attention from what really matters, which is economic inequality. By which I mean simply, class. The social difference that really matters is economic class, not ethnicity, sexual preference, skin color, or religion. To put it another way, you cannot achieve social justice unless you have economic justice.
So what if Google recruits a diverse crew of software engineers? Will that make Google any less of a monopoly? All those engineers and managers are making high-end wages -- Google diversity is nice for the handful of women and minorities who get in the door, but it does zilch to repair our national inequality of income and wealth. Our corporate system is quite happy to include diversity, because it doesn't rock the corporate boat.
That is why Democrats need to move past diversity and work on class-based issues. Along the way, we'll discover more of what we have in common and we'll make better progress for everyone in the lower 99%.
For an excellent analysis of this issue, read Walter Benn Michaels' book "The Trouble with Diversity".
Because the focus on identity inequality distracts liberal attention from what really matters, which is economic inequality. By which I mean simply, class. The social difference that really matters is economic class, not ethnicity, sexual preference, skin color, or religion. To put it another way, you cannot achieve social justice unless you have economic justice.
So what if Google recruits a diverse crew of software engineers? Will that make Google any less of a monopoly? All those engineers and managers are making high-end wages -- Google diversity is nice for the handful of women and minorities who get in the door, but it does zilch to repair our national inequality of income and wealth. Our corporate system is quite happy to include diversity, because it doesn't rock the corporate boat.
That is why Democrats need to move past diversity and work on class-based issues. Along the way, we'll discover more of what we have in common and we'll make better progress for everyone in the lower 99%.
For an excellent analysis of this issue, read Walter Benn Michaels' book "The Trouble with Diversity".
4
This all sounds nice and pat...Too bad it's far from the truth of reality.
Just try walking around in Black or Brown skin, and you'll quickly realize how much it matters to others.
Just try walking around in Black or Brown skin, and you'll quickly realize how much it matters to others.
I can relate to the point being made here. I have been challenged for criticizing unequal pay, unfair advantages given to the rich and unjust treatment of the poor. I am told that because my husband has made a lot of money in business and we have a comfortable life with all its advantages, that I have no right to point out the unfairness, injustice and inequality. But I argue that everyone must speak out!
10
Before I recently retired, I regularly taught a course in critical thinking. One thing we did there was identify common logical fallacies. Frank Bruni's column suggested that three of those fallacies are in widespread use these days. They are:
1) the authority fallacy: if someone with authority (e.g., high status, a credential) says something, it MUST be true;
2) the "poisoning the well" fallacy: if someone has a particular trait (e.g., they belong to some group; they've not had some experience), NOTHING they say can be true;
3) the "if I feel it, it must be true" fallacy: if I feel very positively/negatively about something, it MUST be true/false.
The kind of identity politics described in the column combines these three fallacies: 1) One becomes an absolute authority by virtue of one's membership in a group that has been victimized (e.g., a racial minority). 2) One forfeits any credibility due to one's membership in a group that has victimized others (e.g., white males). 3) The soundness of one's argument can be determined by how intensity one feels about one's own or others' victimization.
The key point, of course, is that we are less likely to come to valid conclusions if we rely on such fallacies when evaluating one another's arguments. And if there is anywhere where we ought to rely on the soundness of arguments rather than such identity-based fallacies, it is the university.
1) the authority fallacy: if someone with authority (e.g., high status, a credential) says something, it MUST be true;
2) the "poisoning the well" fallacy: if someone has a particular trait (e.g., they belong to some group; they've not had some experience), NOTHING they say can be true;
3) the "if I feel it, it must be true" fallacy: if I feel very positively/negatively about something, it MUST be true/false.
The kind of identity politics described in the column combines these three fallacies: 1) One becomes an absolute authority by virtue of one's membership in a group that has been victimized (e.g., a racial minority). 2) One forfeits any credibility due to one's membership in a group that has victimized others (e.g., white males). 3) The soundness of one's argument can be determined by how intensity one feels about one's own or others' victimization.
The key point, of course, is that we are less likely to come to valid conclusions if we rely on such fallacies when evaluating one another's arguments. And if there is anywhere where we ought to rely on the soundness of arguments rather than such identity-based fallacies, it is the university.
8
Trust and credibility. Trust is essential to any healthy human relationship. Marginalized people used to be considered to have no credibility, and their word was suspect. When one is talking about their *experiences*, either individually or as a group, it is hard to give evidence of fleeting moments of experience. Even physical evidence (ex: bruises), how do you prove who caused them, without co-operating witnesses or photo/video?
So, I think a lot of this 'identity politics' of the marginalized (the non-marginalized have their own identify politics) is a push back against the personal &/or historical experience of presumption of lack of credibility. And it still exists. So when asks for evidence of personal experience, how does one answer that? I can understand why some are dismissive of what they perceive as other's attempts to questions their credibility.
This is partly why the criminal justice system has much difficulty in dealing with non-violent hate (stalking/threats/verbal abuse). Or to activities that could be mistaken for something consensual (i.e. sexual assault). Or to law-enforcment misconduct. The accuser have to be deemed credible and they often aren't. And if deemed as equally credible how is it decided? Clear and overwhelming evidence is rarely going to be available. That is why the defence of serious cases often focus on the accusers credibility. The criminal justice system necessarily focuses on evidence. We need a cultural change here.
So, I think a lot of this 'identity politics' of the marginalized (the non-marginalized have their own identify politics) is a push back against the personal &/or historical experience of presumption of lack of credibility. And it still exists. So when asks for evidence of personal experience, how does one answer that? I can understand why some are dismissive of what they perceive as other's attempts to questions their credibility.
This is partly why the criminal justice system has much difficulty in dealing with non-violent hate (stalking/threats/verbal abuse). Or to activities that could be mistaken for something consensual (i.e. sexual assault). Or to law-enforcment misconduct. The accuser have to be deemed credible and they often aren't. And if deemed as equally credible how is it decided? Clear and overwhelming evidence is rarely going to be available. That is why the defence of serious cases often focus on the accusers credibility. The criminal justice system necessarily focuses on evidence. We need a cultural change here.
2
While I definitely sympathize with Bruni's sentiments, being asked by others, as a straight, white, upper middle class male, to reflect on the way my status and social position has shaped both my view of the world and the arguments I form about it has been invaluable to me. Sure, there are moments of frustration when I worry it's not my place to chime in on a topic, or when I know my words will be dismissed for the markers of my identity...but it's only a little slice of what people of color and women of all colors have encountered from the start. Can there be an overkill of identity-based authority in discourse on justice? Sure. But the truth is that this recognition of positionality as impactful is still fairly new to many people (and maybe most still don't get it), so just because it's fairly old news to me and Frank Bruni needn't prompt so much anxiety and fear of the collapse of civil discourse. Nobody who gets to write a couple times a week for the New York Times is at risk of being marginalized. Just listen with humility, then say what you want to say, and if folks listen, then great. And if not, we're only getting a taste of what so many others feel daily. We all pay for the sins of our fathers whether we like it or not. Adjust to that reality or spend your life rowing against the tide.
99
Thanks to Mr. Bruni for speaking out against this bizarre culture of oppression olympics where only the most oppressed can claim the right to speak and be heard. This type of the thinking only reinforces the idea that there are huge and fundamental differences between the genders, people of different skin tone and people of different sexual preferences. Science has shown us that for most characteristics this is not true.
Life is not easy or fair for anyone. Racism and sexism in the past and present has certainly kept us as a nation from benefiting from the talents of all our citizens. However, trying to turn the tables and suppress or invalidate the voices of white men (of which group I do not belong) is just more racism and sexism. As human beings we need to be able to listen to one another and work together because it benefits all of us.
Life is not easy or fair for anyone. Racism and sexism in the past and present has certainly kept us as a nation from benefiting from the talents of all our citizens. However, trying to turn the tables and suppress or invalidate the voices of white men (of which group I do not belong) is just more racism and sexism. As human beings we need to be able to listen to one another and work together because it benefits all of us.
7
Thanks for this. The identity-as-personal-prison argument IS reductive. It's also simply vengeful, trying to put the white oppressors in a position socially that their white ancestors put people of color in.
But American history didn't exist in a vacuum: slavery was the norm through much of history, even in Africa. Historically speaking, we are all oppressors and we are all oppressed. But why look ever backward? There exist slaves today, in odd corners of the world, people of color (and even, God forbid, some white people) who serve in a sort of low wage slavery in our own country: passion about our unjust history could be turned in more constructive forward-looking ways than chewing over the past and engaging in the oppression olympics.
But American history didn't exist in a vacuum: slavery was the norm through much of history, even in Africa. Historically speaking, we are all oppressors and we are all oppressed. But why look ever backward? There exist slaves today, in odd corners of the world, people of color (and even, God forbid, some white people) who serve in a sort of low wage slavery in our own country: passion about our unjust history could be turned in more constructive forward-looking ways than chewing over the past and engaging in the oppression olympics.
3
My Presbyterian Sunday school class in Albuquerque NM is doing a unit on White Privilege. The focus is just on discussing the impact of ethnicity has on our prejudice, bias etc but not on gender, sexual preference etc (another unit, another opportunity for discussion). Our congregation and the Sunday school class has representation from Native Americans, Hispanics, Blacks as well as Anglos.
All of us that make up the dominant culture shut up long enough for one of the Navajo ladies to tell us about her life and her family's struggle. She and her siblings as school age children were sent to a government boarding school miles from their parents' home and forbidden to speak Navajo. They were told it was a barbaric. She recalled that even as a child she knew that her language was used by the famous Code Talkers to aid the victory for the Allies in WWII.
When her brother was setting off for Penn State, he was told that there was a glitch in his acceptance to a master's degree program as his transcript did not show the required hours of a foreign language. His response was that of course it did, English was his foreign language!
All of us that make up the dominant culture shut up long enough for one of the Navajo ladies to tell us about her life and her family's struggle. She and her siblings as school age children were sent to a government boarding school miles from their parents' home and forbidden to speak Navajo. They were told it was a barbaric. She recalled that even as a child she knew that her language was used by the famous Code Talkers to aid the victory for the Allies in WWII.
When her brother was setting off for Penn State, he was told that there was a glitch in his acceptance to a master's degree program as his transcript did not show the required hours of a foreign language. His response was that of course it did, English was his foreign language!
5
Thank you, Mr. Bruni! We definitely need more diversity in all sectors, from public agencies, elected officials, the judiciary and law enforcement to business, media, academic, non-profit and religious organizations. At the same time, too often we fall into the trap of dealing with people and issues from an either/or stance that's devisive and unproductive: "You don't know what I know and experienced so you've nothing to offer me." No one has all the answers. We need to get out of our comfort zones and cultivate a both/and approach. Doing so allows us to quit pointing fingers and instead listen and engage in respectful discourse; appreciate and learn from each other; and then work together to come up with more creative, effective strategies to address problems and improve lives.
2
Very eloquent and thoughtful , Frank . Your writing always provides fresh air to
serious issues we face . The diversity that your points of view provide is so essential to thorny questions our society faces ( or in many cases , run from ).
We need to move away from rigidly-held views about identity and who has the right to speak on certain issues . Openness and thoughtful consideration of all views is important . Self-righteousness is stultifying and ignorant often leading to tightly-held biases that don't advance the discussions one bit . Fight on,
Frank . Keep shedding light where it needs to be.
serious issues we face . The diversity that your points of view provide is so essential to thorny questions our society faces ( or in many cases , run from ).
We need to move away from rigidly-held views about identity and who has the right to speak on certain issues . Openness and thoughtful consideration of all views is important . Self-righteousness is stultifying and ignorant often leading to tightly-held biases that don't advance the discussions one bit . Fight on,
Frank . Keep shedding light where it needs to be.
3
Categories are NOT credentials; there's no guarantee any of us have a complete picture. I can argue equally that no man knows what it's like to be a woman; there, split the whole crowd into two opposing sections.
If we want to sing as a chorus rather than accompanying soloists, all voices need to be given the courtesy of being heard. And, as the author says, if we wish to solve our nations' problems it begins by listening to the argument rather than judging the speaker.
(And silencing our own inner biases that deafen us to another's viewpoint.)
If nothing else, this nation has been scripted by privileged white males in the past; let's keep the good parts while changing the bad.
If we want to sing as a chorus rather than accompanying soloists, all voices need to be given the courtesy of being heard. And, as the author says, if we wish to solve our nations' problems it begins by listening to the argument rather than judging the speaker.
(And silencing our own inner biases that deafen us to another's viewpoint.)
If nothing else, this nation has been scripted by privileged white males in the past; let's keep the good parts while changing the bad.
4
You make some valid points here; it's just exhausting always having the burden of striking just the right tone with a gun in my face. I think, at this juncture, many of us are just tired of pointing out the obviousness of the injustices we see on the news daily. At some point, I want people to be responsible for solving their own bigorty. You know it's wrong; do something about it. As a Black person, it feels like it's always our job to help others understand that we are human beings, no better or worse than anyone else, but if you're invested in seeing me as less than human, nothing I can say will override that narrative. A commitment to basic decency and empathy would go a long way towards alleviating this perceived pressure to apologize for whatever privileges White people have.
8
I think we're just in process. Most social movements, the ones that bring social progress, begin in ways that appear rigid. Identity politics stands in for an ideal world; it is itself not ideal. In an ideal world, I will not have to be a feminist! I'd rather go to a movie! I'm tired of explaining that men run the world, and that I'd like my daughter to have more power in the world than I've enjoyed! I'd rather go to a play or swim in the Ocean! But until such time as women occupy an equal place in the world with men, I will have to be a feminist, and point out male privilege where I see it. The same is true for issues of affirmative action; right now people of color need to stand up to those who deny their humanity and stand up for those rights the denial of which have caused generations of harm. All socially progressive movements are slow and rigid. They said feminists had no sense of humor! hahaha! We couldn't afford a sense of humor in the beginning. Our inequality wasn't funny. It still isn't. Have patience, Mr. Bruni. You've cited your identity as a gay man as a gateway into the understanding of prejudice. Hold on to that until it no longer has meaning. That's the ideal world all these identity-politicans are working toward, in this passionate, awkward way!
4
I really liked the column. I do think the idea that our identity "defines" us leaves out the idea that if both of us were in a random country on the other side of the world, neither speaking the local language, we would find significant affinity with one another as Americans. But then again, I'm a white man, and I'm not even gay (although I do travel a lot, and certainly find real affinity with most Americans I encounter over seas, regardless their background), so take my opinion as you will.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." MLK Jr.
You can substitute any identity for "color of their skin" and the thought still holds. I want to live in that nation, in that world, but it won't happen in my lifetime.
I have been molded by my white skin, by being a woman, by growing up in middle-class American suburbia through the 60's & 70's, by being a parent, by being both poor and well off, by everything I have experienced, heard, read, discussed, and thought about, all of which have molded my character and its content. Judge me and my voice by the content of my character, the end result that my many identities have had on my mind.
You can substitute any identity for "color of their skin" and the thought still holds. I want to live in that nation, in that world, but it won't happen in my lifetime.
I have been molded by my white skin, by being a woman, by growing up in middle-class American suburbia through the 60's & 70's, by being a parent, by being both poor and well off, by everything I have experienced, heard, read, discussed, and thought about, all of which have molded my character and its content. Judge me and my voice by the content of my character, the end result that my many identities have had on my mind.
2
I've been thinking about this a lot. I am a young half asian half white female (although I do look full white so I am granted that immense privilege).
I do *try* to realize how who I am grants me an immensely different ability to speak on specific issues. I can still care about these things but I do think they have to be preluded with something about my whiteness and how I will never understand
But with that said, I think remaining insular and not trying to engage with these issues isn't productive at all. I'm still trying to figure it all out, but I think a lot of it is about positionality.
I do *try* to realize how who I am grants me an immensely different ability to speak on specific issues. I can still care about these things but I do think they have to be preluded with something about my whiteness and how I will never understand
But with that said, I think remaining insular and not trying to engage with these issues isn't productive at all. I'm still trying to figure it all out, but I think a lot of it is about positionality.
2
Well done, Mr. Bruni. Thank you.
1
Bruni gets it exactly right. His exasperation at being categorized really reflects how "speech" has gone from being a discussion of ideas to an assertion of being -- where the purpose of speaking is to carve out one's space and therefore if someone disagrees with you're they're telling you to leave.
But another problem with this approach is that it perpetuates the idea of white men as the most powerful, capable and self-sufficient group in America. "He'll be okay, he's white" carries real meaning. I hear some variation of this every day; my white son will, too.
But another problem with this approach is that it perpetuates the idea of white men as the most powerful, capable and self-sufficient group in America. "He'll be okay, he's white" carries real meaning. I hear some variation of this every day; my white son will, too.
1
You know, I feel like the rising tide of "white men's ideas matter" op-ed pieces and marches is a good sign. It would seem to imply that other groups' fortunes are advancing. No doubt there will be much gnashing of teeth but resetting a long broken bone is a painful process. I think right now rather than calling for cessation of pain the adults in the room should be calling for the whiskey and a stick to bite down on. We can survive and then thrive.
1
An inner city black man has one perspective that a white male does not, and in most cases can not understand or replicate. On the other hand a white male is fully capable of deep study of racism and of offering that historical insight that a black male may not have undertaken. Each person's input should be judged on its own merits.
3
I gave up discussing race a couple years back at a three-day event billed as an effort to combat systemic racism--my employer paid for it, and encouraged folks to go. I will never get those 72 hours back. Over and over and over again, the facilitators told an audience that was pretty much an even mix of black and white that race is an invented notion. OK, fine--I get and accept that. But it never got much beyond that. The facilitators continually drove home the message that people of color are oppressed and that discrimination is rampant in America in both obvious and subtle ways. OK, fine--I get that, I knew that before I came here. But what can we do about that? This was the part that was missing entirely. Any suggestion that there might be a positive path forward was rejected by the folks who were supposed to teach us about racism. Finally, I suggested this: Do unto others as they would do unto you. That, too, was rejected by the facilitators as insufficient. The reaction of the audience seemed split along racial lines.
I will never again go to any kind of diversity seminar or panel discussion of race unless there is a gun to my head. I won't even engage in an informal discussion of race one-on-one with another person if I can help it. In my experience, it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion of race in this country. You'd have more luck converting a Mets fan into a Yankees fan.
I will never again go to any kind of diversity seminar or panel discussion of race unless there is a gun to my head. I won't even engage in an informal discussion of race one-on-one with another person if I can help it. In my experience, it is impossible to have an intelligent discussion of race in this country. You'd have more luck converting a Mets fan into a Yankees fan.
8
Just to put this into context: you throw up your hands in frustration and bemoan the 72 hours you'll never get back attending a seminar discussing racism in America. Think how African-Americans must feel, having suffered for centuries under the yoke of oppression and having to explain and re-explain their plight to clueless white folk: 'That's 300 years I'll never get back.'
3
Ms. Fink,
You sound, exactly, like the facilitators who refused to allow any kind of productive discussion. When you reject the Golden Rule as inadequate, where else is there to go?
How does repeating the mantra you espouse help anyone? It doesn't help white folks, it doesn't help black folks. It just keeps us where we are, which is not a good place to be.
I need to remember my own rule. Don't talk about race in this country. Productive discussion is impossible.
You sound, exactly, like the facilitators who refused to allow any kind of productive discussion. When you reject the Golden Rule as inadequate, where else is there to go?
How does repeating the mantra you espouse help anyone? It doesn't help white folks, it doesn't help black folks. It just keeps us where we are, which is not a good place to be.
I need to remember my own rule. Don't talk about race in this country. Productive discussion is impossible.
Bravo! And brave. But I fear too little, too late. There'll be fighting in the streets. We blew it.
2
I'm suspicious of the criticisms of white men, not because the criticisms may have merit, but because it appears that the arguments put forth are power grabs which will lead to a reversal of roles. Few if any speak about the middle way, a way where power is shared appropriately. Advertisements are the most readily discernable sign that the movement is not toward inclusiveness but, in fact, the elimination of whites in general and white men specifically. And pointing out this fact often results in being shouted down instead of recognizing that if the goal is representation of all Americans, then be honest and represent all Americans and stop demonizing "the other."
7
As a straight, white man who grew up in suburbia, whose parents were wealthy, I see many similarities between myself and Frank Bruni and so many other white Americans. It would be natural for many to put me in an "identity" box. But I am also a Unitarian Universalist from birth and instead of having religious dogma and creed drummed into me, I was raised to consider many different perspectives before coming to a conclusion about what is morally and ethically right and wrong. I came to understand my straight, white, male privilege at a very young age in the 70's (before it was even a "thing"). As a result, I chose (emphasis on "chose") to dedicate my life and work to making a positive difference in the world, to inclusion, to education through the arts, to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness for all without barriers. I realize that I am allowed to make that choice because of my privilege and I take that very seriously.
Although some have tried, I will not be boxed in, I will not be told I am not permitted to speak out and act upon injustice, bigotry and hate because I am straight, white and privileged. And I will not stand for is straight, white males standing on college campuses spewing thinly disguised hate, discrimination and bigotry and calling it "a valid perspective." That's baloney and anyone with common sense knows that. So good for you Frank, we are far, far more than our identities, and we know it.
Although some have tried, I will not be boxed in, I will not be told I am not permitted to speak out and act upon injustice, bigotry and hate because I am straight, white and privileged. And I will not stand for is straight, white males standing on college campuses spewing thinly disguised hate, discrimination and bigotry and calling it "a valid perspective." That's baloney and anyone with common sense knows that. So good for you Frank, we are far, far more than our identities, and we know it.
8
Good piece sir. There's flip side to this toxic identity stew as well. That those who claim a voice in the oppression Olympics assume to claim speak for all others in the same boat. The only claim i have, if i should ever choose to exercise it, is that I'm female, along with 50-odd % of the population. But so many of those who claim to speak for "women" leave me wondering, who are these martians? Leave me out of it. Or perhaps i'm the martian, which i'm ok with. But don't speak for me, i'll define myself and speak for myself.
4
I'm a white guy too; I was lucky enough to grow up in Massachusetts where I still live. In my modest suburban neighborhood we have a family from Africa, a gay couple, young students who rent and retired folks. Some are wealthy, some are struggling but most are sort of in the middle. We all tolerate each other and get along quite well. It's not hard to do. Just be nice and watch how the world opens up to you.
3
This is the part of identity politics that I've never understood. I agree that I do not know what it was like to live as a person of color in an urban environment. I would like to know, to honor your experience and inform my own world view, but I'm not allowed to ask because then I commit the transgression of "making someone speak for their people" or "expecting you to justify/explain your existence." Neither is my intention, but if it feels like that to you, who am I judge?
However, if I respect your privacy, and therefore don't ask about your experience and perspective, if I "shut up and go away," I've suddenly "invalidated you as a human being." These contradictory demands leave us at an impasse. If we can't find a way to work together--to allow ourselves to attempt to understand each other, even in a limited way--we end up with Trump in the White House. There is no way for us to move the country forward when we're busy building walls around ourselves and lobbing verbal hand grenades over them.
I write this with the understanding that I'm going to be personally verbally attacked for my privilege and therefore bigotry and for my assumed political beliefs. This despite the fact that every single person reading this comment section has enough privilege to have an education, access to technology and leisure time to do so. I urge you all to check your own privilege before you attack me for mine. And now I'll shut up and go away.
However, if I respect your privacy, and therefore don't ask about your experience and perspective, if I "shut up and go away," I've suddenly "invalidated you as a human being." These contradictory demands leave us at an impasse. If we can't find a way to work together--to allow ourselves to attempt to understand each other, even in a limited way--we end up with Trump in the White House. There is no way for us to move the country forward when we're busy building walls around ourselves and lobbing verbal hand grenades over them.
I write this with the understanding that I'm going to be personally verbally attacked for my privilege and therefore bigotry and for my assumed political beliefs. This despite the fact that every single person reading this comment section has enough privilege to have an education, access to technology and leisure time to do so. I urge you all to check your own privilege before you attack me for mine. And now I'll shut up and go away.
6
The timing of this article is unfortunate with Charlottesville Virginia on my mind. The issue isn't merely about whether you should speak -- but whether you should be centered in the conversation. White people need to make space for brown and black people to speak. We need to allow their voices to frame the conversation.
Talk about gay rights when you are in gay spaces -- and I'm gay saying this. We need to allow people of color the dignity of leading racial equity. We know white perspectives far too well to decide larger issues based on white opinions.
Sure there's intersections but one oppression will never equate the other. As someone experiencing sexism, racism, and homophobia - the flavors of each are unique and tied in abusive patterns.
Use your capacity as a white man to challenge your community -- to go back to the suburb. Your part in our conversation should be learning from people of color, not teaching them. We want to lead our own decisions.
It's not respectful to deny us that space and to not acknowledge your white privilege because you're gay. These issues are not equitable - they are both extremely serious but different.
I suggest 3 books: Michelle Alexander - The New Jim Crowe; Angela Davis - Race, Class and Women; and probably Neil Irvin Painter - The History of White People. I disagree with your premise profoundly.
Talk about gay rights when you are in gay spaces -- and I'm gay saying this. We need to allow people of color the dignity of leading racial equity. We know white perspectives far too well to decide larger issues based on white opinions.
Sure there's intersections but one oppression will never equate the other. As someone experiencing sexism, racism, and homophobia - the flavors of each are unique and tied in abusive patterns.
Use your capacity as a white man to challenge your community -- to go back to the suburb. Your part in our conversation should be learning from people of color, not teaching them. We want to lead our own decisions.
It's not respectful to deny us that space and to not acknowledge your white privilege because you're gay. These issues are not equitable - they are both extremely serious but different.
I suggest 3 books: Michelle Alexander - The New Jim Crowe; Angela Davis - Race, Class and Women; and probably Neil Irvin Painter - The History of White People. I disagree with your premise profoundly.
102
Reply to Anissa Pemberton:
So lead your own discussions. But don't tell me not to speak, and, as far as I am concerned, all sorts of people can have as much space as they like in discussions led by anyone at all. But don't tell me I am relegated to return to the suburbs and confined to speaking there. Personally, I left the suburbs 50 years ago, specifically because they were too confining. I thrive in and value communities of diversity and consider myself a part of them.
Further, you don't know "white perspectives" and "white opinions." They are not monolithic, but as diverse as white people. And they are not "white," just as yours are not "non-white." They are yours, unique as you are, as are mine. I disagree with your premise profoundly.
So lead your own discussions. But don't tell me not to speak, and, as far as I am concerned, all sorts of people can have as much space as they like in discussions led by anyone at all. But don't tell me I am relegated to return to the suburbs and confined to speaking there. Personally, I left the suburbs 50 years ago, specifically because they were too confining. I thrive in and value communities of diversity and consider myself a part of them.
Further, you don't know "white perspectives" and "white opinions." They are not monolithic, but as diverse as white people. And they are not "white," just as yours are not "non-white." They are yours, unique as you are, as are mine. I disagree with your premise profoundly.
3
When I read this article I thought "sure, it always makes sense to listen to what a person says rather than focusing on the color of his skin". It should be non-controversial. But I knew it wouldn't be.
Look, when a white male is saying something to the effect that the slow degradation makes him feel like he is being discriminated against feel free to get angry. Those guys are a waste of time at best. One the other hand, when a white male is trying to be constructive it does you no harm to listen and evaluate what he says by its content and logic.
Look, when a white male is saying something to the effect that the slow degradation makes him feel like he is being discriminated against feel free to get angry. Those guys are a waste of time at best. One the other hand, when a white male is trying to be constructive it does you no harm to listen and evaluate what he says by its content and logic.
1
We spend so much public time thinking and talking about how the culture affects my precious identity. We spend so little time public time talking about how my precious identity affects the culture, the body politic. Dialogical responsibility doesn't even enter our minds. My feelings about my identity narrative are so abysmally sacrosanct now. It's so arrogant (as if my feelings really were central to others' reality). And it's so very, very boring.
Over the course of American history, every group that has joined "the American experiment" has been faced with the onerous task of trying to become an equal part of the whole. From the start the European males have made every effort to assure they, and no one else, resided at the top of the pyramid. Native Americans, African Americans, Women, Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterers, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and so forth have wanted to be part of a circle, not a pyramid. Those who have succeeded have done so by trying to get around the roadblocks in their way. Few are able to do that mainly because the white males have found ways to resist their efforts, initially openly, then using smoke screens to make their efforts look innocent and inclusive. When they were anything but. And the conflict arises because of the active measures taken to get around the efforts to undermine those measures. White men have tried everything to keep the pyramid from rounding its edges. So, I think, the reason we keep having this type of discussion is that every so often there is another example demonstrating how we continue to make it look like the experiment is "working". But all we are doing is making the pyramid wider at the bottom. Yet the white males keep telling everyone they welcome more at the top. The problem lies in that everyone else knows that's simply not true.
4
The issue is not about being a white man. It's not even about fully understanding and grasping the experience of people who have faced discrimination.
It's about people who have faced some or no discrimination and/or have a lot of privilege lecturing people who have dealt with massive discrimination bring attention to their cause and then lecture them about how they are "doing it wrong." Maybe you should be writing about how you should give such people the benefit of the doubt about methods that harm no one. Is a little empathy so difficult?
The Civil Rights movement certainly faced a lot of things like this. Do you think King never heard from people "respectfully" telling him about how his protests, marches, etc were going about a good cause the wrong way? About why couldn't he just cause less of a ruckus and do things in a way that would make everyone comfortable? That's not how any of this works.
When the social order is messed up in some way, bringing attention to it effectively will ALWAYS make a fair number of people uncomfortable. If it didn't, then we wouldn't have anything to fix, now would we? It would just fix itself by someone casually mentioning the problem.
It's about people who have faced some or no discrimination and/or have a lot of privilege lecturing people who have dealt with massive discrimination bring attention to their cause and then lecture them about how they are "doing it wrong." Maybe you should be writing about how you should give such people the benefit of the doubt about methods that harm no one. Is a little empathy so difficult?
The Civil Rights movement certainly faced a lot of things like this. Do you think King never heard from people "respectfully" telling him about how his protests, marches, etc were going about a good cause the wrong way? About why couldn't he just cause less of a ruckus and do things in a way that would make everyone comfortable? That's not how any of this works.
When the social order is messed up in some way, bringing attention to it effectively will ALWAYS make a fair number of people uncomfortable. If it didn't, then we wouldn't have anything to fix, now would we? It would just fix itself by someone casually mentioning the problem.
3
After reading Bruni's perspective I was curious for reactions from the comments. But the comments (at least those 'picked' by NYT) seem overwhelmingly about whether he has the right to hold opinions because of his identity, instead of reacting to his point that maybe there is more to each of us than "certain life circumstances." I wholeheartedly agree with the point I read in this article: that we all need to help support building a level playing field, respectful of each other's life circumstances but not rejected or marginalized for them. That "how I respond to random challenges on my path, who I met along the way, what I learned from them, the degree of curiosity I mustered and the values that I honed as a result" are all vital parts that make up all of us, regardless of identity -- and finding these bridges between us is absolutely vital to useful, constructive discourse that can move us past this frighteningly divisive time in our history.
4
I wonder whether we could pause to consider that every person's lens is worth understanding. I know white men who have adopted African American children, struggling to introduce them to racial realities. I know a young woman of color who made the effort to explain Black Lives Matter to me - I am very grateful that she trusted me enough to try. When we take the time, we find more similarities than differences. And ways to respect different experiences.
2
This column misses the point so badly it's horrifying. White men are not being oppressed. They have more than enough opportunity to express their views. They're typically the main voice in every conversation, the center of every narrative, the people in virtually every position of power.
Others who want a voice in this country aren't coming after white men with pitchforks. They're merely asking them to step back for a moment, listen (REALLY listen) to others' experiences, wait till people with less power have had their say before speaking. That's how to be a good ally and resistance member, that's how to fight white supremacy. That's solidarity. And yet most white people, even those who call themselves allies, when asked to take a back seat, sputter, "But- but- but- can't we all just be equal?" and "grievance Olympics" and "oppression of white people" and "identity politics is the enemy!" Remember the enemy within this country, Frank: it's white supremacy.
Others who want a voice in this country aren't coming after white men with pitchforks. They're merely asking them to step back for a moment, listen (REALLY listen) to others' experiences, wait till people with less power have had their say before speaking. That's how to be a good ally and resistance member, that's how to fight white supremacy. That's solidarity. And yet most white people, even those who call themselves allies, when asked to take a back seat, sputter, "But- but- but- can't we all just be equal?" and "grievance Olympics" and "oppression of white people" and "identity politics is the enemy!" Remember the enemy within this country, Frank: it's white supremacy.
177
The enemy are those who wish to keep it this way, and not progress : they are running this country. If we do not all work together to gain political power, we will never be able to act to continue civil rights laws and programs (nor environmental laws, nor any way to arrest this dangerous ever growing economic inequality, which BTW is behind a lot of this alt right stuff...). I don't care what color/race/gender/sexual preference you are. If we do not all come to the big table and work together, those other folks will continue to change things for the worse. None of us will like it.
I think you've missed a significant point. Conflating white privilege and white supremacy is a major problem. There is big difference between being, by accident of birth, a white middle class guy from the suburbs and say, being David Duke. Lumping all the white people together in that fashion may lead (I would say it has lead --witness the current administration) to a particularly nefarious form of identity politics--white identity politics.
2
But not all white men are in a position of power. Many of them are lower class or poor, have only a high school education, are unemployed, and are dying in record numbers from suicide or opiod overdoses. A little compassion and understanding for their plight might make them less likely to see Donald Trump as their savior, and more able to feel empathy for others with very different problems.
4
This is, at first read, the most profound and beautiful opinion piece I've read in the Times.
It is a (correct) warning to Americans particularly, and people in general. If we don't allow iurselves to communicate with each due to some imagined inability to understand, what hope have we as a people?
And it is a sharply pointed warning to Democrats: identity politics, without more, is a losing position.
It is a (correct) warning to Americans particularly, and people in general. If we don't allow iurselves to communicate with each due to some imagined inability to understand, what hope have we as a people?
And it is a sharply pointed warning to Democrats: identity politics, without more, is a losing position.
2
Experience is not the best teacher, wisdom is the best teacher. You don't have to be oppressed to understand what oppression means and what it can do to the human spirit. You only have to have empathy and compassion; both are learned and can be practiced. You can listen and you can do what you feel you can but you don't have to jump out of a two-story window to know that it's going to hurt when you hit the ground. Every human being wants to be valued not because of the color of their skin but because they are human beings and as such differ but are the same. Bigotry, greed, abuse and devaluation are devastating regardless of color or ethnicity. We can listen to each other, learn from each other and start with what we have in common.
132
I am aware of my advantages as a white man, and I can empathize with other's alienating experiences as black, brown, gay, female. That is what I can do. Those who say I cannot are trying to marginalize me for being white, which is their pain and their dilemma. I have a right to empathize, and they would do well if they allowed empathetic white males do so.
161
How do you define your awareness, your empathy? More importantly, how do you act on your empathy? To have empathy is to have a visceral understanding of another person's emotional experience. It is more than saying 'I feel bad for these people' or 'hey, I get it, I don't do anything against women, or minorities so stop blaming me'. If you truly empathize you would understand why people, given the historical context of these issues, are dubious or dismissive of your concern and may not always applaud you for it. We do the right thing because it is the right thing to do whether we're praised for it or not. Consider, there have been white people who have actively fought for the rights of people of color in our country throughout our history and have died or very nearly died with very little recognition or need for such. To emphasize that people should be grateful for your acknowledgment is a point of privilege not perspective.
2
The great tragedy, as Frank Bruni suggests and as other readers have pointed out, is the lumping of people. I have to confess, I’m guilty of that myself at times. It's an all-too-human reaction to periods of societal stress.
By lumping people together—all white males, for example, or all Trump supporters, or all Blacks, or all Muslims—we peddle stereotypes that have no basis in reality. Human beings are nothing if not complex. As Rev. King reminded us, it is the content of a person’s character that counts, not his or her race, religion, gender, or whatever.
All too often, those who claim victimization at the hands of a privileged class, are themselves relatively privileged, with good educations and relatively good prospects in life—not perfect, but relatively better than many other folks. What motivates them? Perhaps a quest for identity. But a sense of personal identity is not reached by lumping; it comes from overcoming obstacles and achieving goals.
Lumping people is a slippery slope; it all to easily slides into outright bigotry and hatred. This country cannot survive as we know it unless we all stop lumping.
"Life is not fair," President Kennedy reminded us. Accepting that reality, rather than lumping, is the necessary first step toward changing it.
By lumping people together—all white males, for example, or all Trump supporters, or all Blacks, or all Muslims—we peddle stereotypes that have no basis in reality. Human beings are nothing if not complex. As Rev. King reminded us, it is the content of a person’s character that counts, not his or her race, religion, gender, or whatever.
All too often, those who claim victimization at the hands of a privileged class, are themselves relatively privileged, with good educations and relatively good prospects in life—not perfect, but relatively better than many other folks. What motivates them? Perhaps a quest for identity. But a sense of personal identity is not reached by lumping; it comes from overcoming obstacles and achieving goals.
Lumping people is a slippery slope; it all to easily slides into outright bigotry and hatred. This country cannot survive as we know it unless we all stop lumping.
"Life is not fair," President Kennedy reminded us. Accepting that reality, rather than lumping, is the necessary first step toward changing it.
6
I am a white married woman with children. Should I apologize for my gender and race? I try to be a decent human being and do what is right daily. I am not perfect but I do try to be fair and honest with my dealings with people.
4
I believe another factor has been overlooked in discussions of "identity politics" (a term I have to admit I don't completely understand). It is class. Can anyone raised on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago relate to the experience of youth from a hollowed out rural county? Can the daughter of a black attorney and a black physician correctly understand the pain of a fatherless teen with an addicted mother on the far other side of town?
Or, does the fact that I even raise this point prove I'm just trying to diminish the problems raised in this article? I don't think so. Sorry. I believe class compounds these other divisions. Our current president used it to get himself elected. Sure, many well off Republicans put him there as well, but without the underprivileged base he worked into a lather, he would still be just putting his name on properties and stiffing his contractors.
And guess what? Class divisions aren't going away. At least not in our lifetimes. If you disagree, kindly outline to me how you plan to lift the many millions your fellow citizens below median income (to say nothing of in miserable poverty) to equal education, comfort and privilege of a family with a 200k plus income.
Well, at least we need to try. Yes, we need to put our best efforts into dealing with our other biases. But if we ignore class and income, we will fall short.
Or, does the fact that I even raise this point prove I'm just trying to diminish the problems raised in this article? I don't think so. Sorry. I believe class compounds these other divisions. Our current president used it to get himself elected. Sure, many well off Republicans put him there as well, but without the underprivileged base he worked into a lather, he would still be just putting his name on properties and stiffing his contractors.
And guess what? Class divisions aren't going away. At least not in our lifetimes. If you disagree, kindly outline to me how you plan to lift the many millions your fellow citizens below median income (to say nothing of in miserable poverty) to equal education, comfort and privilege of a family with a 200k plus income.
Well, at least we need to try. Yes, we need to put our best efforts into dealing with our other biases. But if we ignore class and income, we will fall short.
6
I taught Basic Logic for 30 years at a state-supported university. The course curriculum included "informal fallacies," and the most easily detected of these was "ad hominem (against the person) abusive." Any argument that used the nature of a person as a premise, whatever the truth-value of its conclusion, is automatically invalid.
Now one can surely say that Logic itself is an instrument of oppression, and I certainly have heard this sentiment expressed all too often. However, once ad hominem arguments are regarded as valid, NOTHING can be ruled out because reason itself is ruled out. The sad comedy attaching to Bruni's opponents is that in their effort to overcome reason, they use a premise from which they "logically" argue.
Now one can surely say that Logic itself is an instrument of oppression, and I certainly have heard this sentiment expressed all too often. However, once ad hominem arguments are regarded as valid, NOTHING can be ruled out because reason itself is ruled out. The sad comedy attaching to Bruni's opponents is that in their effort to overcome reason, they use a premise from which they "logically" argue.
5
Fair enough, Mr. Bruni. Point taken. Especially by others who are also white or male or straight or middle class, who may not have personally experienced racism or sexism or any other kind of negative ism, but who still fight for social justice for those who have and still do. I would ask you, and others who repeat the narrative that identity politics is a uniquely democratic party affliction, to please stop. I'm not suggesting that the Dems have not focused on identifiable groups and the challenges each faces. After all, this is what we do. The raison d'etre of the Democratic party is to identify injustices and try to address them. But the GOP has equally played the identity politics game, but in the opposite way than the Dems have. The GOP identifies groups - whites, males, christians, not college educated (what are they, if not "identifiable" groups?) - and elicits their grievances, which are often related to their loss of privilege bestowed on them by virtue of the aspect of their identity that has attracted the GOP's attention. The GOP then magnifies the grievance, seeking to preserve or grab back the privilege not because this is what justice would require, but simply because these groups demand it. This is identity politics in its most egregious form. So please, when calling out the practitioners of identity politics, please don't leave the impression that this is an affliction of only the Dems, or that the kind of identity politics played by the Dems is problematic.
11
So why then not condemn identity politics per se -- whether practiced by the left or the right -- and keep that distinct from the policy sphere?
How does it help to increase the voltage between racial groups?
How does it help to increase the voltage between racial groups?
2
@ John Linton - I think you miss the point. The way the Dems practice identity politics is for the purpose of helping to right wrongs. Isn't that who we are, who we represent as a country? The term identity politics has taken on a pejorative connotation, but you have to look behind it to determine whether it's actually destructive. As to the voltage, the voltage runs one way. On the one side, you have people who are simply asking to be treated as equals. On the other, you have hate and ire and anger because those people have the temerity to seek equality. The voltage runs one way. And what you seem to be suggesting is that those who seek equality should sit down, shut up, and take whatever the thugs are willing to give them (which, by the way, history has shown us is absolutely nothing). Give me the money, and nobody gets hurt. That's not how we made or continue to make progress in our country or around the world.
And then there is Charlottesville and the lily white Republican party, the very reason that we all cannot get along.
5
And don't forget to add David Duke, the Klan, and all the other assorted neo-Nazis and white supremacists...
Stereotyping, discrimination, bigotry and hatred expressed in words, looks, actions and legislation and also expressed in vile and violent ways are totally unacceptable.
Love and respect and assist you neighbor whether or not you love your self sufficiently enough and whether or not your neighbor loves her or himself sufficiently enough.
And when you see and experience bigotry and hatred identify it and then expunge it. For example, Steve Bannon needs to be removed from his job in the White House. because he stands for superiority of white Americans over others.
Love and respect and assist you neighbor whether or not you love your self sufficiently enough and whether or not your neighbor loves her or himself sufficiently enough.
And when you see and experience bigotry and hatred identify it and then expunge it. For example, Steve Bannon needs to be removed from his job in the White House. because he stands for superiority of white Americans over others.
3
I do find Frank Bruni generally annoying and this column just makes me cringe. Mr. Bruni, if you would try true empathy and understanding of other social/cultural groups, and come down off your high horse, you might be able to stop playing the suffering white man. If you are discounted or not listened to, perhaps it is more for your conservative attitude than anything else.
7
“Weinstein will be fine. He’s white.” That cracked me up. What color were the people in the gas chambers?
2
General statements characterizing white males are as out of line as general statements about any other group. Come together people and stand up for our shared humanity. Invalidating white males is as hypocritical as any other wrong we are trying to correct. Seriously, don't be a nitwit.
On top of everything else tearing the heart out of good people acting on good intentions we now have a large segment of self involved adolescents unable to see past their most precious more important identity.
We better pull together soon or else.
And those of you who show up to counter the alt right only serve their purpose and advance nothing. Lead your own demonstration. When provoked by a small group of campus ideologues inviting an idiot like Ann Colter to speak ignore them. When the KKK march let them march and the nation will watch and deplore what they see. Physical combat is not an answer, it is what they want.
On top of everything else tearing the heart out of good people acting on good intentions we now have a large segment of self involved adolescents unable to see past their most precious more important identity.
We better pull together soon or else.
And those of you who show up to counter the alt right only serve their purpose and advance nothing. Lead your own demonstration. When provoked by a small group of campus ideologues inviting an idiot like Ann Colter to speak ignore them. When the KKK march let them march and the nation will watch and deplore what they see. Physical combat is not an answer, it is what they want.
Frank, I'm a Southern white man who is socially liberal and fiscally conservative, vote independent, and I share your concern. It even goes beyond the more important issues of identity like sexual orientation, race, gender, financial status to workplace issues that interfere with the ability to do what is necessary to accomplish a goal. "My unique home situation precludes my doing that and it is your responsibility to make allowances for and cover me". Not, "I need to find a way to do my part and take care of my family at the same time ". This when there is no disagreement on the goal.
Very sad state of affairs--I gave up on having an opinion that mattered to anyone else about political issues a long time ago and just vote my conscience and remain in the extreme minority with no more than a handful of Congreve who represent my interests.
On the other hand, I do think the great majority represent our interests and that makes it ok.
Very sad state of affairs--I gave up on having an opinion that mattered to anyone else about political issues a long time ago and just vote my conscience and remain in the extreme minority with no more than a handful of Congreve who represent my interests.
On the other hand, I do think the great majority represent our interests and that makes it ok.
2
Unfortunately, as the event in Charlottesville shows, it is no longer a question of whether or not to listen to white or black women or men - or anybody else. Those who feel they are not listened to will find a way to be heard. No matter how much words hurt and inflame, the alternative is usually far worse. How to open my mind and heart even to viewpoints that I strongly disagree with or even detest, is a major concern to me. And unless I can do this myself, I fail to see how I can convince anyone else to do so. Thank you, Frank Bruni, for making an important step in this direction.
3
My dad used to suggest the following question to those who accused him of privilege; "Do you dislike me because I have, or because you don't have what I have?"
What that misses is that as a population, Whites and particularly White males have what they have in some part due to the use of labor from, and the exclusion from social equity that, people of color and women have been expected to accept for hundreds of years. Over time, that adds up in terms of accumulated knowledge, experience and social position. There's a ledger there that has to be acknowledged.
It's not a matter of guilt or shame nor should it be a matter of retribution - what good would that do? It is a matter, however, of promoting what other societies have used - "Truth and Reconciliation," as well as fundamental changes to the systems, laws, policies and processes that have institutionalized what has passed for normal for so long.
As a father of three daughters, I am not willing to allow them to be impacted by those built-in inequities as I know my wife has been, and I try to further that to others who I well know have had at least as much inequity and bigotry thrown at them. I will not tolerate it. It all starts with each one of us, no matter how "innocent" we feel we are. As the old expression goes, "No drop of rain thinks it is to blame for the flood."
What that misses is that as a population, Whites and particularly White males have what they have in some part due to the use of labor from, and the exclusion from social equity that, people of color and women have been expected to accept for hundreds of years. Over time, that adds up in terms of accumulated knowledge, experience and social position. There's a ledger there that has to be acknowledged.
It's not a matter of guilt or shame nor should it be a matter of retribution - what good would that do? It is a matter, however, of promoting what other societies have used - "Truth and Reconciliation," as well as fundamental changes to the systems, laws, policies and processes that have institutionalized what has passed for normal for so long.
As a father of three daughters, I am not willing to allow them to be impacted by those built-in inequities as I know my wife has been, and I try to further that to others who I well know have had at least as much inequity and bigotry thrown at them. I will not tolerate it. It all starts with each one of us, no matter how "innocent" we feel we are. As the old expression goes, "No drop of rain thinks it is to blame for the flood."
4
"But I question the wisdom of turning categories into credentials when it comes to politics and public debate. I reject the assumptions — otherwise known as prejudices — that certain life circumstances prohibit sensitivity and sound judgment while other conditions guarantee them. That appraises the packaging more than it does the content. It ignores the complexity of people. It’s reductive."
Very well said!
Very well said!
6
Your intelligence obviously disqualifies you from being an objective observer of those squashed into the center of the bell curve!
3
My understanding of Mr. Bruni's article is that dialogue most needs to be focused on issue via logical arguments, to be as accurate and objective as possible. As I understand he [and I] agree that speaking from identity politics and from political correctness narrows the issue to personality and groups, instead of the topic or the issue at the crux of the matter.
1
After the election and the protests in Charlottesville that turned into violence, I am sick to my guts of other white people whining that they've somehow been turned into an oppressed minority. The piece is nothing more than another rambling, self-indulgent attack on identity politics and affirmative action.
6
LOL - so, help me here for a moment. This rag and its many minions have spent decades pressing post-modern, neo-marxist, social justice warfare - and now that it's gotten out of hand, you are going to pretend you didn't cause it?
Amazing. The behavior of these campus - and increasingly govt and corporate maniacs - is based on brainwashing and propagandizing of the sort seen on these pages every day. A narrative that grooms one's mind for the "revolution" and "resistance" that this ideology is designed to bring about.
Wake up, leftists. You are destroying the U.S. and the entire Western, modern world with your ridiculous and failed ideas.
Amazing. The behavior of these campus - and increasingly govt and corporate maniacs - is based on brainwashing and propagandizing of the sort seen on these pages every day. A narrative that grooms one's mind for the "revolution" and "resistance" that this ideology is designed to bring about.
Wake up, leftists. You are destroying the U.S. and the entire Western, modern world with your ridiculous and failed ideas.
5
After decades of brainwashing the social justice Frankenstein has been unleashed and no amount of leftist pearl clutching will subdue it. You were supposed to be the master! Your vile, ugly creation was supposed to obey you! But now, it has turned on you and no proclamation of your "good intentions" is going to save you. You've created this menace despite the warnings of the lowly common villagers, whose simple lives you had mocked. After all, they weren't brilliant like you. They were wrong to think you were mad. It was they who had to accept your vision. And now, you will suffer with those simpleton peasants who simply wished to be left alone.
3
This was lovely and sensitively-written, Frank, thank you. As a wannabe philosopher and reader of the classics from Herodotus to Tocqueville, I've often wanted to make the case that, while our circumstances make us interesting, they are what the elders would largely call the "accidents" of our nature. The things that make us able to talk with each other are the essentials: our faculty of reason, our common emotional expressions, our capacity for empathy. We read about the authors because their context informs their perspective – and makes our own more visible by contrast. But the fundamental questions are, did they see accurately, reason well, and love broadly? And do we?
3
What strikes me in this column is the lack of acknowledgement of the role of trauma in this conversation. You use the example of a white college professor who is frustrated because his arguments are not coming across to a seemingly irrational imperative from people from other creeds to be heard as members of an oppressed group. What is happening is that people want to be heard in a different way. In order for trauma to be resolved, it first needs to be acknowledged. There is no other conversation possible without this first step. This is the outcry that the minority groups are shouting for. The most productive conversation at this point would be in the style of the 'truth and reconciliation' hearings, which did much in South Africa to begin the healing process after apartheid. So long as we continue to ignore the pain of oppression by demanding calm and rational behavior we will never bridge the divide. It is like trying to have a philosophical conversation with someone who is busy trying to save their kids from a burning building. If you can't see what's happening, then get out of the way, but don't keep on insisting that we stay calm.
12
The Op-Ed Columnists listed on the website for the NY Times are as followed: Charles, David, Frank, Roger, Gail, Ross, Maureen, Thomas, Nicholas, Paul, David, Andrew and Bret. Eleven men and two women.
Frank Bruni: what if anything are you doing to do make make women’s voices as well as anyone else besides white men's voices are heard? What are you specifically doing, if anything, about that ratio of eleven to two right in your own newsroom?
And I wonder if the eleven are paid significantly more than the two?
We live in a society where men are valued much more than women.
How do I know that? I and my fellow overwhelmingly female teacher assistants - doing important work for the children of our school - make a starting wage of between $10 and $13 per hour. Our bus driving colleagues - overwhelmingly male - also doing important but not more important work - make a starting wage of $17 per hour.
How about you write an op-ed after you've spoken with someone who makes less than a living wage? More likely than not it will be woman. More likely than not it will be a person of color. Give them a voice. Give them a platform. Thank you.
Frank Bruni: what if anything are you doing to do make make women’s voices as well as anyone else besides white men's voices are heard? What are you specifically doing, if anything, about that ratio of eleven to two right in your own newsroom?
And I wonder if the eleven are paid significantly more than the two?
We live in a society where men are valued much more than women.
How do I know that? I and my fellow overwhelmingly female teacher assistants - doing important work for the children of our school - make a starting wage of between $10 and $13 per hour. Our bus driving colleagues - overwhelmingly male - also doing important but not more important work - make a starting wage of $17 per hour.
How about you write an op-ed after you've spoken with someone who makes less than a living wage? More likely than not it will be woman. More likely than not it will be a person of color. Give them a voice. Give them a platform. Thank you.
12
It's interesting that this distasteful topic comes up primarily at liberal arts colleges with tuition of $30,000 per year. Youngsters born on 3rd base are having a tough time thinking through the privilege they've been born into. Their feelings of guilt get translated into the identify politics that plague one wing of liberalism. Yes, groups of people are systematically oppressed. Let's do something about it, something constructive instead of wallowing in guilt. Our society needs fundamental reforms that address the needs of every single one of us. Universal free health care, quality free education -- those building blocks create a society that values every individual. I don't need to understand the experience of every brown or gay person to know that they need a stable climate, healthful food, basic security -- the very same things I need. Good literature and stage can help with understanding each others' subjective traumas. Keep it out of politics.
10
You can lead the "underprivileged" to books but you can't force them to read. Now what
Been there. Done that. Over it!
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REVIEW BY RICHARD TERRELL:
Robert Klein Engler writes a melancholy reflection on trends and conditions in American higher education, with larger perspectives emanating from his own specific and personal experiences in Chicago’s City College system at Richard Daley College. Engler reflects on the metamorphosis of the college from a community of scholars and teachers to a political bureaucracy.
NOW AVAILABLE FOR CLASSROOM USE
A WINTER OF WORDS:
http://www.lulu.com/shop/robert-klein-engler/a-winter-of-words/paperback...
REVIEW BY RICHARD TERRELL:
Robert Klein Engler writes a melancholy reflection on trends and conditions in American higher education, with larger perspectives emanating from his own specific and personal experiences in Chicago’s City College system at Richard Daley College. Engler reflects on the metamorphosis of the college from a community of scholars and teachers to a political bureaucracy.
1
No, instead, let's separate into warring tribes, as the avatars of identity insist.
Then, of course, it will be the tribe which is the most powerful which will "win" in the battle that is sure to ensue. And since I'm a moderately wealthy white male ... well, WE will surely win and then I'll no longer have to have any empathy, understanding or compassion for anyone other than those like me.
Watch our for what you want as you might end up getting it.
Then, of course, it will be the tribe which is the most powerful which will "win" in the battle that is sure to ensue. And since I'm a moderately wealthy white male ... well, WE will surely win and then I'll no longer have to have any empathy, understanding or compassion for anyone other than those like me.
Watch our for what you want as you might end up getting it.
5
Progress is not linear. Pendulums swing both ways. One can only imagine the horror of slavery and lynchings. To do so takes an open mind and a heart. Given racism, poverty, incarceration, dismantling public education, looks like many whites need to check their hearts. It does not have to be this way. DC is too far down the lobbyist sewer to care about social justice. We have a red green problem: heart and funding.
2
Thank you for a thoughtful and insightful opinion piece. For the record, I'm white, born a coal miners daughter. For my first 12 years we lived in a small home with no indoor toilet facilities (yes, an outhouse),or hot water. I worked menial jobs throughout middle school, high school, college and two jobs to get me through graduate school. I achieved a Ph.D from Columbia. Please don't talk to me about my"white privilege " until you have grown up using an outhouse, bathing in a small tub with water heated on the stove, worked during every semester at every level of school, endured sexual harassment on many occasions and still appreciate the beautiful wonder of a life well lived. I feel sad for those who can't see beyond their own personal lives.
18
Continued...
To some people your thoughts and your skills aren't as highly valued as your male counterparts. Does the fact that I'm black and female mean that I'm worse off than you? Not necessarily. But it does mean that I'm more likely to be exposed to situations that your whiteness (given the right choices) will let you bypass. It doesn't mean that you win the game. It just means that from birth you are automatically granted several get out of jail free cards and can only lose them with great error. I, on the other hand, only get it out of luck or perseverance and, once held, can have it snatched even without error.
As far as the article, Fabienne from Los Angeles expressed my thoughts precisely a few comments up.
To some people your thoughts and your skills aren't as highly valued as your male counterparts. Does the fact that I'm black and female mean that I'm worse off than you? Not necessarily. But it does mean that I'm more likely to be exposed to situations that your whiteness (given the right choices) will let you bypass. It doesn't mean that you win the game. It just means that from birth you are automatically granted several get out of jail free cards and can only lose them with great error. I, on the other hand, only get it out of luck or perseverance and, once held, can have it snatched even without error.
As far as the article, Fabienne from Los Angeles expressed my thoughts precisely a few comments up.
1
Based on your criteria, I and many others can definitely talk to you about white privilege. The things that you listed have nothing to do with privilege. The privilege you claim as a white person is that regardless of your background, you can educate yourself, change your habits, get a makeover and no one would assume anything about you. Fresh clean start. A Cinderella situation. I, on the other hand, cannot leave my color in the backwoods where I was raised. I can't hide my blackness from others' racism or unconscious biases. You are offended, but your offence stems from a misunderstanding of the word...a misunderstanding that is also perpetuated by a wide spread misuse of the word. Your whiteness doesnt make you rich. It does, however, give you the chance to transform yourself again and again. It does allow you, as a white person, to be judged on your own merits. As a woman, not so much.
1
Finally - someone who leans left realizes that identity politics is the enemy of the kind of citizenship we need to turn this country around. Thanks Frank. But what do I know? I'm just a straight - white - married - father - catholic - Irish-American - veteran - former football player - raised by a single mother. At the rate we are going, identity politics will lead us to one outcome: civil war. How bout them apples . . .
7
Free speech is about disagreeable speech. When people start using their hands, projectiles or weapons then this is about a criminal mob.
6
For thirty years I delivered newspapers all around New York City. The day Reagan won my friend/boss who was a big Ayn Rand fan and a supporter of Reagan asked me with some real concern if I was okay. I replied "Anything that makes you happy can't make me totally miserable."
Occasionally I would have a friend join us on our route. Just so they and Frank could meet and schmooze. I had one friend who had been Ayn Rand's personal secretary. She was in from Boston so I asked her to come along. It was probably the greatest present I could give Frank. They got on famously. The disappointment was that she had left the fold and now was an anarchist from the left. Another time my girlfriend at the time who was a radical organizer from Japan came with us. Frank started talking as if he was the leader of the socialist movement here. That also got on famously.
Occasionally I would have a friend join us on our route. Just so they and Frank could meet and schmooze. I had one friend who had been Ayn Rand's personal secretary. She was in from Boston so I asked her to come along. It was probably the greatest present I could give Frank. They got on famously. The disappointment was that she had left the fold and now was an anarchist from the left. Another time my girlfriend at the time who was a radical organizer from Japan came with us. Frank started talking as if he was the leader of the socialist movement here. That also got on famously.
2
In the Tarantino movie "Pulp fiction" the "Wolf" remarks: "Of course you are a character, does not mean you have character". Any sexism aside, this might describe also this situation. Being part of a group mayhap falls under the category of "being a character", having empathy and understanding over your own or somebody else's situation could be described as "having character". This is an important distinction. And as they say: "Personality goes a long way ....". "To be continued." Until then I will just "walk the Earth".
1
When I heard people saying "Black Lives Matter", I thought "Of course" because I presumed it meant "Black Lives Matter as Much as Other Lives, Especially White Lives".
But when I heard the racists chanting "White Lives Matter" in Charlottesville, VA yesterday and today what I heard was "Only White Lives Matter". Or more expansively "Straight White 'Christian' Men's Lives Matter and Nobody Else Matters AT ALL!" (I say 'Christian' because their Christianity is a real as unicorns.)
But given what we are seeing now in Virginia, it's time for brothers and sisters of all races to stand together to stop these Hitler-worshiping monsters. If you think we White people who are sympathetic and on your side don't understand what you've gone through (a valid concern), just try to imagine how much more, and how evilly distorted the neo-nazis with their torches and guns think about you!
As Gene Kelly once put it: We may be rancid butter, but we're on your side of the bread...
But when I heard the racists chanting "White Lives Matter" in Charlottesville, VA yesterday and today what I heard was "Only White Lives Matter". Or more expansively "Straight White 'Christian' Men's Lives Matter and Nobody Else Matters AT ALL!" (I say 'Christian' because their Christianity is a real as unicorns.)
But given what we are seeing now in Virginia, it's time for brothers and sisters of all races to stand together to stop these Hitler-worshiping monsters. If you think we White people who are sympathetic and on your side don't understand what you've gone through (a valid concern), just try to imagine how much more, and how evilly distorted the neo-nazis with their torches and guns think about you!
As Gene Kelly once put it: We may be rancid butter, but we're on your side of the bread...
7
This has too often been my experience: "...what people in a given victim group sometimes seem to be saying is: You must understand my experience, and you can’t understand my experience. They argue both, so people shrug their shoulders and walk away,” - It's a position that leaves no room for unity. The only (immediately peaceful) option is to walk away, thus resolving nothing.
Mr. Bruni's editorial brilliantly encapsulates the catch 22 many "white" people feel when dialoguing on race relations.
Mr. Bruni's editorial brilliantly encapsulates the catch 22 many "white" people feel when dialoguing on race relations.
5
Thanks for raising this overdue topic Frank. Really nice job!
4
"Race, gender, sexual orientation, class: All of this informs — and very often warps — how we see the world". The problem is all this inform how we're SEEN BY the world, and in particular people who hold almost all levers of power (they happen to be overwhelmingly White males).
4
As long as the only people celebrating "white" identity are the violent, hateful, ignorant folks represented in Charlottesville, they'll continue to gather strength.
Can we please acknowledge that a "white" person is the only one who has to hear, "you know nothing about my experience; let me tell you all about how your experience makes you the problem."
Can we please acknowledge that a "white" person is the only one who has to hear, "you know nothing about my experience; let me tell you all about how your experience makes you the problem."
1
"Across a range of American institutions, we need more diversity. We need it to expunge and guard against the injustice that Bovy mentioned, and we need it because it’s indeed a portal to broader knowledge and greater enlightenment. That means that white people — men in particular, even Google engineers — must make room in that narrative and space on that stage."
Once you accept "check your privilege," Frank, you've lost the argument.
Anyone who demands that people watch what they say or alter their behavior because of personal features over which they have no control, like ethnicity, sex and sexual preference, is opening the door to the very thing that the Civil Rights, Women's and Gay Rights Movements set out to abolish -- a society based on preference rather than merit.
Once you accept "check your privilege," Frank, you've lost the argument.
Anyone who demands that people watch what they say or alter their behavior because of personal features over which they have no control, like ethnicity, sex and sexual preference, is opening the door to the very thing that the Civil Rights, Women's and Gay Rights Movements set out to abolish -- a society based on preference rather than merit.
3
Privilege vs what? disadvantaged? No matter.
What matters is humility vs arrogance. Anyone can be humble, and anyone can be arrogant, no matter their color, class, religion, sexual identity, etc etc etc. We, as human beings, are all more alike than we are different.
We are one, admittedly diverse, too often fighting between and among ourselves.
No matter, we would do right to think of everyone as us.
The topic of the article is pertinent, and timely,
People organizing in Charlottesville Virginia for the right to hate, and
deprive others of their rights. Nazis, American nationalists attacking
people, black and white, Jewish, Christian, atheists, labels 5,6. . . ad nauseum.
We are one, one tribe. We will learn to live as such, or we will perish, poisoned by the paranoia, predation, and lovelessness of the reptilian within us.
What matters is humility vs arrogance. Anyone can be humble, and anyone can be arrogant, no matter their color, class, religion, sexual identity, etc etc etc. We, as human beings, are all more alike than we are different.
We are one, admittedly diverse, too often fighting between and among ourselves.
No matter, we would do right to think of everyone as us.
The topic of the article is pertinent, and timely,
People organizing in Charlottesville Virginia for the right to hate, and
deprive others of their rights. Nazis, American nationalists attacking
people, black and white, Jewish, Christian, atheists, labels 5,6. . . ad nauseum.
We are one, one tribe. We will learn to live as such, or we will perish, poisoned by the paranoia, predation, and lovelessness of the reptilian within us.
1
This is why I will never vote for a Democrat again in my life. I am a lesser being to many liberals because I am a white male. Never mind that I'm Jewish. I have white skin, so therefore I am an oppressor.
4
Please read Dyson's op ed piece.
4
You could have taken this piece to some useful places but instead you fall prey to what you are criticizing: assigning motives based on identity and reductivism. Step back and take a deep breath, stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop being defensive, open your ears, and try again.
2
Sorry, Frank Bruni, but I've been reading you long enough to know that, yep, you don't get it. And your self-pitying whining about being told by those who are members of oppressed groups that you don't get it, well ... that just tells me all over again: you don't get it.
3
The fact that anyone, white, black etc, has to preface an article with mindless identity politics has shown you how idiotically surreal the left has gotten.
3
Everyone needs a voice at the microphone. Where is the African American feminist writer like bell hooks in the pages of the New York Times? Where are the Asian writers about the affirmative action debate that's going on? But, yes, Bruni's voice should absolutely not be stifled. This is reactionary politics masquerading as political correctness.
1
To believe only one people responsible for racism, bigotry, and hatred is ignorance. To proclaim only one group capable of racism, bigotry, and hatred is itself bigoted and hypocritical.
4
I have observed and am 100% sure that we are now back in the late 50's early 60's as far as race thanks to Obama and the democrats. Thank you very much. You had the chance to bring people together just because of your skin color, apparently that gives you credibility, but instead of telling everyone to buckle up and take on some personal responsibility you told the black community, "You can get away with anything because of your skin color" "you white folks, everything is your fault", it appears to me that the white folks who wrote the constitution were much smarter than Obama. All men are created equal. Until we look at it that way and take personal responsibility for our situation, not blame somebody else. This experiment called the US will never work.
1
As an old white guy who identifies as a black lesbian, I couldn't agree more.
3
This article is pointless. I came here thinking it was a funny satire on white men's oppression in their own society.
1
Reading the Times' lead article on Charlottesville's insistence on using the term "white nationalists" was infuriating. Even in sentences quoting other people calling them, properly, "white supremacists", the Times stuck with 'nationalists"? Why? Because some of their leaders call themselves 'white nationalists'? Does that somehow compel the Times to stick to their fallacious self-descriptions rather than accurately reporting what they actually ARE??
Bad Times! Bad!
It's your job to describe them accurately, not to use their own PR! Otherwise you are abetting Trump's language of 'many sides' being the problem. Orwell is watching you!
Bad Times! Bad!
It's your job to describe them accurately, not to use their own PR! Otherwise you are abetting Trump's language of 'many sides' being the problem. Orwell is watching you!
3
Poor white people, so misunderstood.
4
Poor white people, so misunderstood.
6
I can be commenting on a NYT article on the texture of potato chips in Portugal and will often receive a reply to that comment reeking of intersectionality, relating to my home, basically stating "look at what you people (sic!) do to [pick your intersectional choice] so what are you doing commenting about this". Sometimes the NYT will remove it, usually not.
So Mr. Bruni your old-school gay status does not grant your views legitimacy when it comes to some on the left.
Welcome to the new world.
So Mr. Bruni your old-school gay status does not grant your views legitimacy when it comes to some on the left.
Welcome to the new world.
4
Well said, and timely. But why does the NY Times describe the American Nazis and Racists marching by Teutonic Torchlite in VA as White Nationalists, and not what they are White Supremacists, or American Nazis? In the 60's were Southern Racist Segregationists called White Nationalists? Don't legitimize it. There is no such thing as a White Nation (even if you buy into the myth of Nations....), so there is no such thing as a White Nationalist....
2
Amen.
1
It's ironically appropriate, if not planned, that the bruni and illa pieces appear in conjunction with the racist white supremacist march in Charlottesville. Their words, their actions. The thought is father to the deed.
2
There was an era when it was probably important to discover our ethnic, sexual and gender differences and salute them; now it is past time to show our acquired sensitivities and put them to work creating whole Americans again all rowing in the same boat pulling for each other and the common good. United we can stand so much firmer and prouder.
1
Thanks Frank.
Ani DiFranco is right -- any tool is a weapon if you hold it right -- and we would help ourselves to realize we're not helping ourselves by weaponizing our differences.
Ani DiFranco is right -- any tool is a weapon if you hold it right -- and we would help ourselves to realize we're not helping ourselves by weaponizing our differences.
2
All whites aren't the same. All blacks aren't the same. All Jews aren't the same All gays aren't the same. All men and all women aren't the same. Judge people individually, one at a time, on their character.
This simple truth, stated by ML King and others, has been blurred in our self-righteous, "I'm the victim" society. The white nationalist who murdered with his car felt himself a "victim" too. Enough!
www.newyorkgritty.net
This simple truth, stated by ML King and others, has been blurred in our self-righteous, "I'm the victim" society. The white nationalist who murdered with his car felt himself a "victim" too. Enough!
www.newyorkgritty.net
3
You put your finger on a phenomenon that is sounding the death knell for democracy as an effective system of government ever louder for the past 10, 15 or more years now.
This growing tendency in academia to define issues ever more emphatically from the viewpoint of sociological fragments has combined with the desperate search for votes on the politicians' side to loose the common ground. This is especially pronounced on the Left, where society has come to be defined as a collection of groups and sub-groups on the basis of their being victims of "something" else, something against which action must be taken. This is allied to a culture of de-responsabilization. No-one, no group or sub-group is in any way at the origin of its (supposed) predicament.
This causes two problems. Firstly, it hinders the identification and the implementation of solutions, as energies are misdirected into the increasingly acrimonious debate. Secondly, it drives all those who disagree into the arms of the right-wing, populist alternative. An alternative that is, in fact, as disparate as the amalgam of victim groups, but isn't conditioned to look at its situation in the same terms.
As long as the Left cannot break out of this almost Pavlovian reflex, it is doomed to an ever more shrill irrelevance.
This growing tendency in academia to define issues ever more emphatically from the viewpoint of sociological fragments has combined with the desperate search for votes on the politicians' side to loose the common ground. This is especially pronounced on the Left, where society has come to be defined as a collection of groups and sub-groups on the basis of their being victims of "something" else, something against which action must be taken. This is allied to a culture of de-responsabilization. No-one, no group or sub-group is in any way at the origin of its (supposed) predicament.
This causes two problems. Firstly, it hinders the identification and the implementation of solutions, as energies are misdirected into the increasingly acrimonious debate. Secondly, it drives all those who disagree into the arms of the right-wing, populist alternative. An alternative that is, in fact, as disparate as the amalgam of victim groups, but isn't conditioned to look at its situation in the same terms.
As long as the Left cannot break out of this almost Pavlovian reflex, it is doomed to an ever more shrill irrelevance.
2
Well, the NYT's asks me to share my thoughts.
Divide and conquer. That is what is happening to American society today.
No longer is everybody a citizen, now everyone has to belong to an 'identity'. I can't begin to follow most of it.
What I do know is that all those 'identities' seem to be unable to put together a governance system that will give you all a fair distribution of the nation's wealth, so that everyone has the 'freedoms from' that FDR elucidated. All you identities cannot come up with a workable system to ensue that all the myriad systems in your country from transportation to healthcare to education function in a reasonable fashion. There are a lot of things that the identities don't seem to be accomplishing.
Maybe it is time for everyone to go back to being just plain citizens. The gay white guys like Frank, who seems to wish to be able to reclaim a better version than the one he grew up with, and all of the rest of you.. Listen up! This is getting you nowhere. Reclaim your citizen title. Be proud of it, and, because it is the only thing that will work, work for the betterment of all citizens.
Divide and conquer. That is what is happening to American society today.
No longer is everybody a citizen, now everyone has to belong to an 'identity'. I can't begin to follow most of it.
What I do know is that all those 'identities' seem to be unable to put together a governance system that will give you all a fair distribution of the nation's wealth, so that everyone has the 'freedoms from' that FDR elucidated. All you identities cannot come up with a workable system to ensue that all the myriad systems in your country from transportation to healthcare to education function in a reasonable fashion. There are a lot of things that the identities don't seem to be accomplishing.
Maybe it is time for everyone to go back to being just plain citizens. The gay white guys like Frank, who seems to wish to be able to reclaim a better version than the one he grew up with, and all of the rest of you.. Listen up! This is getting you nowhere. Reclaim your citizen title. Be proud of it, and, because it is the only thing that will work, work for the betterment of all citizens.
4
Can't we all just get along?
2
I just attended the funeral of my 96 year old uncle. The Priest giving the homily said it was easy to eulogize my uncle because he was a really nice guy. He was a nice guy, through and through. He loved life and he really enjoyed his social life. By and large he was happy and had been that way his entire life. I've known others like my uncle and their enjoyment of life had nothing to do with their skin color, sexual orientation, education or wealth. This is the bottom line in life, the crux of what we should all be striving for. When you die will you be remembered as a nice or good person? Did you make the world a little better or will your people be glad you are gone? All the hatred talked about incessantly and none of the love.
3
No one is ultimately a straight white man or a lesbian black woman. The ego craves identity, and it will grab ahold of any label it can get. (Remember when people thought they were their astrological signs?) We are human beings, all of us. Beware any attempt to define yourself as fundamentally something else (whether by race, gender, sexual preference, or whatever). It is always an act of separation, and inevitably leads to narratives involving victims and oppressors. Address unjust acts without reinforcing the ego-based narrative.
4
Great article. Until white folks start nailing the colors to the mast and refusing to accept the wholly inaccurate branding as bigots and no-nothings, this is going to continue to get worse. I am sick and tired of hearing these fools tell me what I have the right to espouse view on.
3
No matter how smart, wealthy, or privileged one is, one will be lucky to escape Kafkaesque experiences in this nuthouse where there is no adult supervision.
2
Frank,
Everything you say is valid, but you're trying to bring order to American social chaos, and only time can do that; we must be patient.
Everything you say is valid, but you're trying to bring order to American social chaos, and only time can do that; we must be patient.
1
I'm not white, I'm half Jewish and you can not be white and most any part Jewish. That is just the reality of my heritage and how Jewish people are seen around the world by hundreds of millions if not billions of people, including the alt-right in this country. I'm not the least bit religious but am defined simply by my surname, Sugarman. That surname puts me in great danger in certain parts of the world. I am defined by the world around me just as Barack Obama is defined by everyone in this nation, including himself, as black, even though he is half white. Should Mr. Obama be black on Mondays and white on Tuesdays and so forth. No, he is defined by the world around him, just as I am not Catholic on Tuesdays. Professor Weinstein is also Jewish by birth as identified by his surname but was identified as white by his critics. His critics see him as white because it gives them just cause, in their minds to attack and disqualify what he says. I pass for white. I suppose Professor White passes for white. Many people pass for white but that doesn't make it so.
2
No you aren't. Race is not real. It's a social construct. You aren't white. You're a human being.
1
Liberals will pay for the war they have waged on whites.
Yesterday was only the beginning.
Yesterday was only the beginning.
Just don't forget. What goes around comes around.
And white racism has been around for longer than yesterday.
And white racism has been around for longer than yesterday.
1
Thank you, Frank Bruni & NYT. The year I graduated from high school, there were were marches at Stanford decrying the teaching of "Dead White Males." I was offended then; I am offended now. What 'smart person' marches against Knowledge? Knowledge is Power. Homer's 'Odyssey' is still the greatest poem ever written, hands down. Read it in Rodney Merrill's perfect verse translation & tremble in awe at the powers of the human brain, when love & art are fused with tenacity. Since 1975, these raucous debates have become less coherent, advancing the cause of empowering the disadvantaged very little. Truth is, US schools are turning out young folks with scant knowledge of any reality except their own narrow experience, what they see on TV or hear playing in their heads. That's not even a fraction of what Life has to offer via the journeys traveled & aspirations served of a full 7.2 Billion Souls, each of whom has rights equal to those of any loudmouth ignoramus. This drama will not cease until we bring back sound curricula to our public schools & higher standards for permission to teach in any school in the USA. There are rules of logic, argument, research, language. They are being dismantled by anarchists, demagogues & nihilists, some of whom have now attained the highest levels of power we have in the USA. Fortunately, this is not the only country on the planet. Even if the US collapses, Civilization will not perish from this earth, because other countries still have Good Schools.
2
I'm not gay but I am a woman. And I can tell you white men spend a huge amount of time telling women what they are supposed to think. Select the issue of abortion for example and white men come out of the woodwork to explain to women how they should think and feel and what they are allowed to do with their bodies.
The engineer at Google is entitled to think what he wants. His mistake, or if you believe as I do that he knew exactly what he was doing and the ramifications, his triumph, was doing it at work. Had he not done it at work he was just an irritating little man with an opinion and the Internet is full of them. But I am sure the little man at Google had had all kinds of training telling him he shouldn't behave that way, but he did it anyway. It's a workplace. If you don't like the way your company treats people, move on. We have all been there.
So, on to my agreement with you Mr. Bruni. I think there is value in say, white men explaining what they think the female, gay, black experience is because unless they do how do we understand if they understand? And further, perhaps they have something salient, brilliant, insightful to say about what they see from the outside. We'd never suppress that type of input anywhere but in gender/race discussions.
In short, we need to get over ourselves and start listening to each other. It's the only way we will make progress.
The engineer at Google is entitled to think what he wants. His mistake, or if you believe as I do that he knew exactly what he was doing and the ramifications, his triumph, was doing it at work. Had he not done it at work he was just an irritating little man with an opinion and the Internet is full of them. But I am sure the little man at Google had had all kinds of training telling him he shouldn't behave that way, but he did it anyway. It's a workplace. If you don't like the way your company treats people, move on. We have all been there.
So, on to my agreement with you Mr. Bruni. I think there is value in say, white men explaining what they think the female, gay, black experience is because unless they do how do we understand if they understand? And further, perhaps they have something salient, brilliant, insightful to say about what they see from the outside. We'd never suppress that type of input anywhere but in gender/race discussions.
In short, we need to get over ourselves and start listening to each other. It's the only way we will make progress.
1
I am White; Hear me Roar!
1
Ah, but Mr. Bruni, aside perhaps from Salon.com, what periodical does more to encourage anti-white resentment than the New York Times?
3
Double "yawn."
White is not my identity, nor any other skin color. Anyone who does define their identity by skin color is patently too shallow for any intelligent person to have a converstion with.
Ask people to describe themselves in 10 words and i cant imagine many brown, yellow, red, or white people would be so bereft of personal qualities that they need to include slin color to complete the list.
On the other hand...yawn
White is not my identity, nor any other skin color. Anyone who does define their identity by skin color is patently too shallow for any intelligent person to have a converstion with.
Ask people to describe themselves in 10 words and i cant imagine many brown, yellow, red, or white people would be so bereft of personal qualities that they need to include slin color to complete the list.
On the other hand...yawn
1
Yes, it is true. If I am white and you are black, our different races mean that we have most certainly had different life experiences. I am male, you are female. Once again we certainly have different life experiences. I am a white male and you are a white male. Does that mean that our life experiences are the same?
By definition, we are individuals and we are human. We do not live in Huxley's Brave New World (at least not yet). All alphas are not alike, all gammas are not alike. That is called diversity.
We celebrate diversity on Monday and decry it on Tuesday. But whatever we think of it, it exists. That means that if we all wish to live in the same world and be helpful to each other and empathetic to one another we must accept the irreducible fact of diversity and do the best we can to understand each other. If I am white and I say or think something about being black or female or gay or straight that is incorrect, I am happy to have someone who is black or female or straight or gay around to point out my mistake so I can correct it and improve myself as a human. I just hope that the person who corrects me understands that I was not wrong out of malice but out of ignorance and corrects me with facts and not invective.
If I am white I cannot be black, If I am male I cannot be female, if I am straight I cannot be gay. But that doesn't mean I can't try to understand my fellow human beings and love and respect them.
By definition, we are individuals and we are human. We do not live in Huxley's Brave New World (at least not yet). All alphas are not alike, all gammas are not alike. That is called diversity.
We celebrate diversity on Monday and decry it on Tuesday. But whatever we think of it, it exists. That means that if we all wish to live in the same world and be helpful to each other and empathetic to one another we must accept the irreducible fact of diversity and do the best we can to understand each other. If I am white and I say or think something about being black or female or gay or straight that is incorrect, I am happy to have someone who is black or female or straight or gay around to point out my mistake so I can correct it and improve myself as a human. I just hope that the person who corrects me understands that I was not wrong out of malice but out of ignorance and corrects me with facts and not invective.
If I am white I cannot be black, If I am male I cannot be female, if I am straight I cannot be gay. But that doesn't mean I can't try to understand my fellow human beings and love and respect them.
3
Now we see more clearly why bruni sticks up for the racism of the odious Charles Murray
2
As a follow up to my prior note, witness this from the previous Times piece on the subject:
Students demanded that he and two other college employees whom they deemed insensitive to minorities be fired
They deemed whom, not who. Yes. He met whom, not who. Deem and meet are both transitive verbs taking the accusative case of the personal pronoun.
Students demanded that he and two other college employees whom they deemed insensitive to minorities be fired
They deemed whom, not who. Yes. He met whom, not who. Deem and meet are both transitive verbs taking the accusative case of the personal pronoun.
But it's just so much easier to judge color of skin rather than content of character. It takes actual effort to judge character.
2
As a former high school history teacher, I am stunned by the argument that legitimate understanding derives exclusively from lived experience. What, then, is the purpose of education? Why bother with history or Shakespeare? In the end, why even leave the house?
4
Hearing white men out in America isn't the problem.
Never has been.
They're the ones who've been holding the reins of power to this nation since its founding.
When you're white, identity politics don't matter. Because in this country being white is all that matters.
That's what Trump more or less said in his campaign. That's why Trump was elected.
That's also why Charlottesville happened yesterday.
Never has been.
They're the ones who've been holding the reins of power to this nation since its founding.
When you're white, identity politics don't matter. Because in this country being white is all that matters.
That's what Trump more or less said in his campaign. That's why Trump was elected.
That's also why Charlottesville happened yesterday.
160
This is quite amusing to read, for a person who has grown up in a poor white family; my father was from a home harboring an abusive stepfather, my mother's father worked over two years without any more than Christmas Day home.
Beginning in elementary school, I took everyone surprise by going to a public school and emerging from it with one of the highest test scores in reading in math in our state. Sent to take the ACT at age eleven, I gained a score of 28 following the completion of the sixth grade. This was all from a school with a D rating on Niche.
When I was recruited by private college preparatory boarding schools following my eighth-grade year, unfortunately, no scholarships were available for me to not have to ask for full aid from the financial office. There were three; no whites allowed. No matter how poor I am.
Three of the four schools I applied to denied me acceptance, however calling to inform me that if I found money, I had a place.
At my new school, my boyfriend was part of a program that paid for his schooling, college prep programs, books, and more. He made almost $50,000 more than my family and got into all of his schools, with his test score in the 79% and mine in the 94%.
But guess what? I was white, he was not.
No one wants to acknowledge that white people are poor too.
Beginning in elementary school, I took everyone surprise by going to a public school and emerging from it with one of the highest test scores in reading in math in our state. Sent to take the ACT at age eleven, I gained a score of 28 following the completion of the sixth grade. This was all from a school with a D rating on Niche.
When I was recruited by private college preparatory boarding schools following my eighth-grade year, unfortunately, no scholarships were available for me to not have to ask for full aid from the financial office. There were three; no whites allowed. No matter how poor I am.
Three of the four schools I applied to denied me acceptance, however calling to inform me that if I found money, I had a place.
At my new school, my boyfriend was part of a program that paid for his schooling, college prep programs, books, and more. He made almost $50,000 more than my family and got into all of his schools, with his test score in the 79% and mine in the 94%.
But guess what? I was white, he was not.
No one wants to acknowledge that white people are poor too.
Being white, black or any other color in the rainbow is a human construct. So is the classification by sex ( orientation ) race, geographical, social, political, and so on and so on.
The Democratic party ( or any of us ) can simply it all by excepting our past, realizing where we stand today and providing a clear and concise vision as to where we ALL are going to go forward.
The ALL part is the missing link.
There is all sorts of privilege from every tribe towards every other tribe. Some of it is systematic as well. There is no disputing it. However those that have indeed been privileged are in the last throws of a tantrum and backlash to every other group\tribe\Liberal that their lot in life is to be blamed on other. ( other than themselves of course )
I keep saying the same thing. Again, and again, and again. We need only ONCE, ( with all due deference to FDR\LBJ ) a truly progressive government for all the people. Only then will we be able to come together.
That is because we will be able to show once and for all that we are all in this together. ( every color, shape and size )
The Democratic party ( or any of us ) can simply it all by excepting our past, realizing where we stand today and providing a clear and concise vision as to where we ALL are going to go forward.
The ALL part is the missing link.
There is all sorts of privilege from every tribe towards every other tribe. Some of it is systematic as well. There is no disputing it. However those that have indeed been privileged are in the last throws of a tantrum and backlash to every other group\tribe\Liberal that their lot in life is to be blamed on other. ( other than themselves of course )
I keep saying the same thing. Again, and again, and again. We need only ONCE, ( with all due deference to FDR\LBJ ) a truly progressive government for all the people. Only then will we be able to come together.
That is because we will be able to show once and for all that we are all in this together. ( every color, shape and size )
2
Centuries of slavery and Jim Crow followed by the racist scientism validation of the odious Charles Murray, followed by trump's invalid election and next here come illa and bruni to glorify the racists carrying burning crosses and swatiskas. And to vilify the black victims once again. Yes folks, Berlin 1936 all over again.
45
Thanks for this.
As much as I deplore the Republican Party and hold them accountable for the situation we're in - the Democrats are culpable as well. Playing identity politics has completely backfired on them and left us in a huge mess, drawing divisions between blocs of voters who traditionally sided with the Left. Nancy Fraser calls this a move from 'redistribution' to 'recognition'; the latter has completely failed as a political ideology and it's time to abandon it.
As much as I deplore the Republican Party and hold them accountable for the situation we're in - the Democrats are culpable as well. Playing identity politics has completely backfired on them and left us in a huge mess, drawing divisions between blocs of voters who traditionally sided with the Left. Nancy Fraser calls this a move from 'redistribution' to 'recognition'; the latter has completely failed as a political ideology and it's time to abandon it.
5
Why do white people who call themselves liberal always talk to blacks and other minorities in defense of civil rights. Why do they join movements largely led by minorities?
Shouldn't they be talking to their racist white brethren? The problem of racism isn't a black problem. The problem of misogyny isn't a female problem. The problem of homophobia doesn't lie with gays. If you as a member of a privileged community consider yourself an ally, but aren't using your position as part of the privileged group to change your own group, you're doing the "ally" thing wrong.
The problem of hate is with the hater. Instead of arguing with blacks over being heard, argue with the nazis and kkk. Go to their meetings and tell them why they are wrong and why you will not tolerate their views taking over our public sphere. Use your privilege as a white person to convince or marginalize racist whites.
You come across as a condescending coward. Talk to the people who are the problem instead of demanding those who aren't the problem listen to you wax eloquently on how you propose to help them. Instead of whining about the blacks not listening, confront your white brethren.
Shouldn't they be talking to their racist white brethren? The problem of racism isn't a black problem. The problem of misogyny isn't a female problem. The problem of homophobia doesn't lie with gays. If you as a member of a privileged community consider yourself an ally, but aren't using your position as part of the privileged group to change your own group, you're doing the "ally" thing wrong.
The problem of hate is with the hater. Instead of arguing with blacks over being heard, argue with the nazis and kkk. Go to their meetings and tell them why they are wrong and why you will not tolerate their views taking over our public sphere. Use your privilege as a white person to convince or marginalize racist whites.
You come across as a condescending coward. Talk to the people who are the problem instead of demanding those who aren't the problem listen to you wax eloquently on how you propose to help them. Instead of whining about the blacks not listening, confront your white brethren.
342
Kat - Wow. Thank you for reshaping the argument here. You give me pause to wonder if I have the courage to do this. You are absolutely correct, of course.
1
Look at the pictures from Charlottesville: who is in the crowd protesting the white supremacists?
1
I think we don't speak to our 'white brethren' about their behavior because we believe they are too stupid to be convinced. You should take it as a compliment that we don't think that of you.
Bruni's is a thoughtful and sensitive column, on a terribly complicated and sensitive subject. Yet even so, he oversimplifies. One column and one comment can't get close to making sense of what's going on. But instead of slogans (political correctness, identity politics) let's try the following:
There are difficult and complicated histories of oppression that leave huge wounds in social life.
Attempts to respond to them are frequently threatening, largely to everyone.
What we need, first of all, is to cultivate the ability to listen to the wounds and claims of others when we present our own claims.
That means avoiding lapsing into reverse slogans too quickly, adding to the polarizations.
There are truths to identity politics, to political correctness, that can far too easily be reduced to political slogans. Pretty much all of the attacks, on both sides, consist in denying the humanity and history of those asking to be heard.
That would suggest that public discourse begin by first understanding where others--individuals or groups--are speaking from before we speak out ourselves.
Finally, I include universities as sites where this is more important than anywhere, both because of their current volatility and because of their resources for public discussions.
There are difficult and complicated histories of oppression that leave huge wounds in social life.
Attempts to respond to them are frequently threatening, largely to everyone.
What we need, first of all, is to cultivate the ability to listen to the wounds and claims of others when we present our own claims.
That means avoiding lapsing into reverse slogans too quickly, adding to the polarizations.
There are truths to identity politics, to political correctness, that can far too easily be reduced to political slogans. Pretty much all of the attacks, on both sides, consist in denying the humanity and history of those asking to be heard.
That would suggest that public discourse begin by first understanding where others--individuals or groups--are speaking from before we speak out ourselves.
Finally, I include universities as sites where this is more important than anywhere, both because of their current volatility and because of their resources for public discussions.
6
Thanks, Frank Bruni, for a beautifully constructed defense of our common humanity. Of course our various identities and personal experiences help shape our world views, but we also possess powers of imagination and empathy that help us understand the experiences and identities of others as well. We share more than divides us. Only the close minded and the dogmatic define reality (or alt.reality) in a way that excludes the experiences of others.
6
“But I wasn’t talking about their experience or my experience,” Lilla pointed out when I spoke with him recently. “I was talking about an issue.”
Therein lies the problem. I too agree that one's identity, self-described or put-upon, discredits anyone from speaking on any "issue." But what well-meaning white folks don't get about race is that right now, in this political space, in this historical era, perhaps once non-white folks feel like white people are capable of simply *listening,* then we can move forward toward conversation.
Too often in our history have non-white folks failed to simply listen, to recognize that their experience is the one held as the norm, or that counter-narratives to the white norm might be more *right* when it comes to understand an entrenched social problem. As we know, people are more willing to communicate constructively once they feel like they've been listened to, without interruption. Listening signals that you care about what I'm saying, ultimately that you care about *me.*
And for so long, non-white folks have felt that white people simply don't care about us because they refuse to simply listen to us.
Therein lies the problem. I too agree that one's identity, self-described or put-upon, discredits anyone from speaking on any "issue." But what well-meaning white folks don't get about race is that right now, in this political space, in this historical era, perhaps once non-white folks feel like white people are capable of simply *listening,* then we can move forward toward conversation.
Too often in our history have non-white folks failed to simply listen, to recognize that their experience is the one held as the norm, or that counter-narratives to the white norm might be more *right* when it comes to understand an entrenched social problem. As we know, people are more willing to communicate constructively once they feel like they've been listened to, without interruption. Listening signals that you care about what I'm saying, ultimately that you care about *me.*
And for so long, non-white folks have felt that white people simply don't care about us because they refuse to simply listen to us.
4
The "me" generation has to dissolve and morph into the "us" generation. I phones I everything is not a good thing. While we now know our individual differences will always exist, we should find a working commonality that works for all, dare I say, responsible and willing participants. And no this is not code language.
2
Thank you Mr Bruni for an excellently written article. Your arguments are precise and solid and I hope they become the foundation for the slow but inevitable end of misguided identity politics.
3
So much wisdom here. Thank you!
8
This is a good column, with many valid points. However, as a white man myself, I wonder...who can solve these problems? The answer has to be white men. And we don't have to be black or brown or native or gay or female to do so. We don't even need to pretend that we "understand" what it is like to be different from who we are. It is never acceptable to ask the victim of any tragedy, especially something as devastating as slavery or genocide, to fix what went wrong. So why do we have to "be" someone else to understand OUR role (as white men) in this situation?
As a white man, I'd say the burden is simply on us to begin and take very seriously a brutally honest rendering of the history of white dominance in this country, and to demand a fair accounting by scholars of history. A sort of American Truth and Reconciliation Commission, if you will. Then we white men need to have the capacity to accept those hard truths and agree to do all that is required to breathe life into the new words that should be put into our constitution...that all PEOPLE are created equally. And, finally, we have to be held to the task without fail until those words ring true for EVERYONE, from sea to shining sea.
As a white man, I'd say the burden is simply on us to begin and take very seriously a brutally honest rendering of the history of white dominance in this country, and to demand a fair accounting by scholars of history. A sort of American Truth and Reconciliation Commission, if you will. Then we white men need to have the capacity to accept those hard truths and agree to do all that is required to breathe life into the new words that should be put into our constitution...that all PEOPLE are created equally. And, finally, we have to be held to the task without fail until those words ring true for EVERYONE, from sea to shining sea.
7
The title of this article will quickly become "click bait" on social media sites. Most of those sharing and commenting will not read the article, but will make disparaging and angry comments about the "identity group" that is quoted in the title. We humans have truly become our own worst enemy.
3
Hillary Clinton, lest we all forget, WON the popular vote last year, even though about 65% of White folks voted for her opponent. She lost in the electoral college, where I assure you the voices of White men and women were heard loud and clear in that sadly gerrymandered body, when it counted, in elevating a Tool into the White House.
Turn on your TV, computer, radio, or any other media, the voice and image of the White man is ubiquitous, It permeates every fiber of being everywhere in this country and most of the world.
So take those hurt feelings and play that song somewhere else. You are not being slighted, folks are just tired of hearing what you are saying, and we can't avoid your voice, no matter what we do.
You are everywhere.
Isn't that enough?
Turn on your TV, computer, radio, or any other media, the voice and image of the White man is ubiquitous, It permeates every fiber of being everywhere in this country and most of the world.
So take those hurt feelings and play that song somewhere else. You are not being slighted, folks are just tired of hearing what you are saying, and we can't avoid your voice, no matter what we do.
You are everywhere.
Isn't that enough?
10
You would not have that problem
in a country whose citizens are 100% Black.
in a country whose citizens are 100% Black.
I watch tv. First, there are African American and Hispanic networks. There are PLENTY of African American and Hispanic news presenters, and reporters as well as plenty of African American characters on plenty of dramas and comedies, although fewer Hispanics and far fewer Asians or American Indians. There are almost NO shows featuring characters over 60, at least not portrayed positively - as functioning, intelligent characters. None. So, I don't think your complaint is justified, in light of bigotry towards other groups.
Terry Eagleton explains the problem as the difference between a politics based on empathy, vs. a politics based on sympathy.
Empathy is the ability to see from someone else's eyes or walk in someone else's shoes. A noble interpersonal emotion, perhaps, but a bad starting point for politics, because it's inherently impossible at the large scale. Sympathy, on the other hand, though frowned upon in personal relationships as condescending, can be less condescending than empathy in the political area. Sympathy means: look, I can't claim to know your experience, but I can hear you explain it, trust your integrity in reporting it, acknowledge your concerns, and join with you in your fight.
But we live in shrill times. Sympathy happens not in bursts of emotion, but through authentic engagement: listening, asking, advising, in a continuous and patient loop. I lose hope that it is possible. Reasonable conversations are cut short every time an innocent black man gets murdered by a cop, who is then exonerated. Liberals refuse to listen to the struggles of poor white people, because those same people espouse an ignorant xenophobia. I'm even willing to bet that some people will be accusing Bruni of "mansplaining" privilege in this article.
Echo chambers are all the rage: we don't listen, we don't ask, and nobody wants anybody else's advice. So how to we build a politics of sympathy?
Empathy is the ability to see from someone else's eyes or walk in someone else's shoes. A noble interpersonal emotion, perhaps, but a bad starting point for politics, because it's inherently impossible at the large scale. Sympathy, on the other hand, though frowned upon in personal relationships as condescending, can be less condescending than empathy in the political area. Sympathy means: look, I can't claim to know your experience, but I can hear you explain it, trust your integrity in reporting it, acknowledge your concerns, and join with you in your fight.
But we live in shrill times. Sympathy happens not in bursts of emotion, but through authentic engagement: listening, asking, advising, in a continuous and patient loop. I lose hope that it is possible. Reasonable conversations are cut short every time an innocent black man gets murdered by a cop, who is then exonerated. Liberals refuse to listen to the struggles of poor white people, because those same people espouse an ignorant xenophobia. I'm even willing to bet that some people will be accusing Bruni of "mansplaining" privilege in this article.
Echo chambers are all the rage: we don't listen, we don't ask, and nobody wants anybody else's advice. So how to we build a politics of sympathy?
6
Poor whites wouldn't be as "xenophobic" as they seem if their jobs hadn't been sent to other countries. It's all about the money.
I abhor bigotry of any form, whether from white supremacists or from some other group. No one can judge the experience of another, and certainly can't simply because they are members of one racial or ethnic group. When caucasians or any other group are left out of legitimate discourse, and the content and legitimacy of an argument or statement are judged invalid because of the 'identity' of the proponent, rather than the inherent logic therein, what you get are more of what was seen in Charlottesville as a radical fringe uses exclusion as a means of recruitment. This will only end when all of us can finally aspire to the ideal of MLK, when all people (including his children) would 'not be judged by the color of their skin, but the content of their character'. Let's stop the Balkanization of everything. We all have the right of free speech, and deserve to have our arguments and statements judged for their content, rather than the identity of the person speaking.
3
I'm a white man too - and I CAN relate to those of other races, religious backgrounds and socioeconomic backgrounds through "empathy" - a dirty word to the right. I was fortunate to attend the same private school Frank attended (overlapping two years) coming from abroad where my friends were from an amazingly wide variety of backgrounds and physical features (ethnic, even handicap). I could relate to all of them as friends and can empathize with them too. Empathy is easily extended to others, not just starving babies and abused animals.
Empathy has its limits. I cannot reconcile empathy with bigots, sexists, racists, violence and other haters. I admit I have no tolerance for intolerance.
Empathy does not discriminate. I can feel the injustice against a black man as I can for a white man. I know a black man can feel the injustice against me, a white man too. I know because I have experienced it with my friends - friends of all backgrounds.
Empathy has its limits. I cannot reconcile empathy with bigots, sexists, racists, violence and other haters. I admit I have no tolerance for intolerance.
Empathy does not discriminate. I can feel the injustice against a black man as I can for a white man. I know a black man can feel the injustice against me, a white man too. I know because I have experienced it with my friends - friends of all backgrounds.
4
I think the column has to do with the "left's" total lack of empathy towards white men, which IS a "thing". Maybe Mr. Bruni feels like he needs to wear a tee shirt printed with "I may be white, but I'm gay, so don't hate me" or something like that.
If you take a close look at the oligarchy in this country, they are most likely 99% white. Today's political lie is that we still have a democracy.
5
Good essay. I definitely agree that academic discourse should indeed center around "I think X because of Y argument". Anything else is intellectual laziness, something fueled by sitting on Facebook all day instead of informing yourself of the relevant literature out there. Unfortunately, many in this generation are only capable of the former. This includes "activists" on the Left and Right.
1
"....if you believe that identity determines everything..."
Of course identity determines everything. From the very inception of this country, identity determined who would be slave, who would be free, who was valued, who was deserving of human treatment.
Identity politics has always been the justification for the predatory treatment of people of color - Native Americans, Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics. Jim Crow, red lining, neighborhood covenants, job discrimination, and voter suppression are and were all about identity politics - the acts of exclusion to protect sacred privileges.
Now that young Americans are expressing their objections to racial and bigoted speech, they are accused of "identity politics".
I don't agree with shouting down speech. I welcome the opportunity to hear the thoughts of others. Hearing their message tells me who they are, who and what they value.
Don't pretend identity politics are new. Identity politics has been at the core of all things that touch our lives since the day the New World settlers decided Indians were an inconvenience to their ambitions.
Of course identity determines everything. From the very inception of this country, identity determined who would be slave, who would be free, who was valued, who was deserving of human treatment.
Identity politics has always been the justification for the predatory treatment of people of color - Native Americans, Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics. Jim Crow, red lining, neighborhood covenants, job discrimination, and voter suppression are and were all about identity politics - the acts of exclusion to protect sacred privileges.
Now that young Americans are expressing their objections to racial and bigoted speech, they are accused of "identity politics".
I don't agree with shouting down speech. I welcome the opportunity to hear the thoughts of others. Hearing their message tells me who they are, who and what they value.
Don't pretend identity politics are new. Identity politics has been at the core of all things that touch our lives since the day the New World settlers decided Indians were an inconvenience to their ambitions.
7
The year is 2017. Former slaves have been dead for decades. Affirmative Action has been in place for more than 50 years, and racial/ethnic discrimination in hiring is against the law. (The most excluded group in hiring are seniors, but you don't seem to care about them.) Asians are among the wealthiest ethnic groups in the US and Chinese immigrants of my acquaintance still have Trump stickers on their cars. Try looking at today's realities for a change.
"a Hillary Clinton supporter I know was told that he could not credibly defend her against charges of racism for her past use of the word “superpredators” because he’s white."
Your friend wasn't the target of that word. Him defending her doesn't mean it wasn't what it was. So its hard to know if Frank is using that example in some way to defend Clinton's use of the word. In some ways justify the policies that in fact grew out of the consciousness the use of that term represented: mass incarceration, pandering to white hatred (yes triangulation, the assault on welfare and the execution of Ricky Ray Rector were very real).
Or is Frank just using that particular example to show how discussion is stifled. Of all the privileges Frank mentions, being a Timers columnist is not one of them. So as a "white man" he is always being heard out.
Your friend wasn't the target of that word. Him defending her doesn't mean it wasn't what it was. So its hard to know if Frank is using that example in some way to defend Clinton's use of the word. In some ways justify the policies that in fact grew out of the consciousness the use of that term represented: mass incarceration, pandering to white hatred (yes triangulation, the assault on welfare and the execution of Ricky Ray Rector were very real).
Or is Frank just using that particular example to show how discussion is stifled. Of all the privileges Frank mentions, being a Timers columnist is not one of them. So as a "white man" he is always being heard out.
4
Yes we should recognize white privilege as a reason why white people have better opportunities in this country but at the same time we should not dismiss someone's accomplishments or academic record simply bc they are white. If you don't like someone's comment or argument about a subject, debate them. The pen is mightier than the sword.
1
I believe that empathy is simply the recognition that we all share and feel the same basic human emotions - fear, anxiety, embarrassment, anger, desire, hope, hopelessness, love, grief, frustration and on... - and that we may differ in what brings on those emotions, or to what extent, but if we acknowledge the other is feeling them, and feel them too, we can empathize with what they need, or want or are saying.
That's why I think some men are able to understand how a woman feels when degraded at work; how a black man in Chicago might understand how a forgotten white coal miner in West Virginia might be afraid and angry; or how a 64 year old straight white woman may be able to understand - just enough - how it must feel to be a transgender male in the military and not know what's going to happen - enough to fight for their rights.
In that way, we can genuinely say, I know how you are feeling, without being disingenuous or having to share the same identity.
That said, I still had to tell off the men who smugly said that the women who were upset about the Google memo were just too thin skinned and needed to get over it. As a woman in the very front lines of women in the "male" professions, I don't need a lecture from a man on being "thin skinned".
That's why I think some men are able to understand how a woman feels when degraded at work; how a black man in Chicago might understand how a forgotten white coal miner in West Virginia might be afraid and angry; or how a 64 year old straight white woman may be able to understand - just enough - how it must feel to be a transgender male in the military and not know what's going to happen - enough to fight for their rights.
In that way, we can genuinely say, I know how you are feeling, without being disingenuous or having to share the same identity.
That said, I still had to tell off the men who smugly said that the women who were upset about the Google memo were just too thin skinned and needed to get over it. As a woman in the very front lines of women in the "male" professions, I don't need a lecture from a man on being "thin skinned".
4
Bruni, you get PLENTY of attention through your NYTimes column, more than your share compared to most of us. And this is true for plenty of white people and males. And you have let us know that you are gay and concerned about gay oppression plenty often.
7
Frank, I will never condemn you for being who you are. It is not my place. I would rather read your offerings, laud them or disagree with them, Comment when I feel the need and continue to enjoy your columns as a part of this excellent newspaper.
Stay the course and continue to speak out.
Stay the course and continue to speak out.
3
Outstandingly articulate expression of exactly what needs to be said -- and what needs to be HEARD -- right now. Pass this on!
1
I think you have written this essay maybe 4 times before and you can click on " Roger Kimball" and see these points made by the Right 25 years ago, but hay maybe you had much better things to do then actually write something unique. Still,it must be tough to publish this just on the day that will allow the Alt -Right to defend what they did yesterday by pointing out your essay. Have you called the Times to ask that it be put below the virtual fold?
3
"Unique"? I've never read an article like this before. Most articles on the topic keep saying the same old thing - that America is racist and getting worse and that we need more concessions made to us because of our victim-hood.
It's those types of article that are a dime-a-dozen.
It's those types of article that are a dime-a-dozen.
As a white male only a couple years younger than Trump, I would suggest that our privileged “tribe” is being justifiably condemned for our abject failure to construct an historical narrative that honestly explains how we gained that privilege. For a far more accurate perspective, I recommend Sven Beckert’s Empire of Cotton, which details how slavery and its concomitant, colonialism, didn’t just enable the rise of global capitalism, but are intrinsic to its very nature. Trump, the racist, amoral global capitalist elected to preserve white privilege in a nation that has never fully acknowledged its original sin, is proof of how far we have to go. Until white Americans rise up and construct an honest narrative of our nation’s rise, fully denounce white supremacism in all its forms, and address endemic economic inequality, we can’t claim to be credible messengers of atonement and change.
7
Skin color is the only feature none of us can erase. In ourselves and in others. It's a tangible difference, and it's close to impossible to ignore it. Growing up in middle-class white America in the 40s when large numbers of blacks were emigrating to northern cities like the one where I lived, I made the same assumptions about blacks my parents did: They were unable to speak proper English. They weren't as intelligent as we were. They were incapable of doing more than menial work. They were potentially dangerous. These assumptions were proved false over time. But with few exceptions, white people have not experienced what it's like to be black. So it's true that we have to understand -- but we can never fully understand.
1
As a white male I can both appreciate the intelligence and civility displayed by Mr. Bruni and despair for the ignorance and brutality of the white supremacists in Charlottesville. While I am to some degree a product of my race and class, I am far more strongly influenced by my education and ethics.
2
Obama and the left play identity politics. The entire issue has spiraled out of control via their cultural Marxism tactics.
Leave to Universities to take the bait. Divide and conquer.
Leave to Universities to take the bait. Divide and conquer.
4
I am a 64 year old progressive Democrat Caucasian well educated straight male who worked and lived in Detroit for 30 years until I recently moved to the suburbs. I tried not to be overtly racist and watched what I said carefully but that was never enough. I was always expected because of my "exalted status" to let black folk play the victim to the hilt. And that is the problem or at least part of it. I remember being part of "diversity groups" where I would sit down with other Caucasians and African Americans and discuss race. The discussions were reasonably civil but never got beyond the "white people bad, black people oppressed" even if I admitted I was a racist. I got tired of the whiny "I'm a poor victim" argument" particularly when I knew black folk were being derided by other black folk for trying to better themselves and being "too white. It seemed to me that part of the problem was that black folk had found it very comfortable and safe to play the victim and never admit personal responsibility because it's always easier to blame your own shortcomings and mistakes on someone else. Until that changes race relations will never move forward except in very small steps.
6
Well said, Mr. Bruni.
2
There's no strength in being a victim. Choosing that path, and it is a choice no matter one's circumstances, always leaves one on the lower side of an encounter.
Strength is in success. Why do we think the white nationalists are currently coming out of the woods? Why did people elect someone like Trump? Because Barack Obama, a man who fit none of their stereotypes for a black man, was so very strong and successful.
Succeed in spite of your identity. That's where the real power lies.
Strength is in success. Why do we think the white nationalists are currently coming out of the woods? Why did people elect someone like Trump? Because Barack Obama, a man who fit none of their stereotypes for a black man, was so very strong and successful.
Succeed in spite of your identity. That's where the real power lies.
3
This article is a slight of hand against straight white males. Fact is, he's still promoting identity politics.
3
Mr. Bruni, your column calls us all to reflection. No matter what our "identities," shouldn't all of us, as humans, through education and reflective dialogue be able to recognize when we ourselves or others are uninformed, misinformed or illogical?
Thomas Jefferson's words come to mind:
"[T]he people can not be all, & always, well informed. [The] part which is wrong . . . will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. [If we] remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the [re]public. . . ." Thomas Jefferson, (with slight emendations of my own).
Jefferson implies that true patriots are those who are actively reflective and who, as a consequence can recognize lies, manipulative distractions and misinformation for what they actually evidence: tyranny. True patriots are those who recognize tyranny when it reveals itself within their midst, whether tyranny be that of a dictator or that of tribal emotion and willfulness.
Thomas Jefferson's words come to mind:
"[T]he people can not be all, & always, well informed. [The] part which is wrong . . . will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. [If we] remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the [re]public. . . ." Thomas Jefferson, (with slight emendations of my own).
Jefferson implies that true patriots are those who are actively reflective and who, as a consequence can recognize lies, manipulative distractions and misinformation for what they actually evidence: tyranny. True patriots are those who recognize tyranny when it reveals itself within their midst, whether tyranny be that of a dictator or that of tribal emotion and willfulness.
2
About Mark Lilla's essay on "thinking A and arguing for it" vs. the current "speaking as an X, I'm offended that you think B", I'd say we need to hear from the X, but the X needs to get over his/her resentment. Perhaps marrying the "as an X, I think A and here's why--what's your experience/thought?"
Right now, we can't hear anything since we are so consumed by our own projections.
Right now, we can't hear anything since we are so consumed by our own projections.
1
Probably the best essay on this issue that I've seen. Alas, because you are a white man, the people who need to hear this argument most will undoubtedly refuse to listen to it.
1
Fact: Most nonwhite non-males are doing just fine in this country.
Such a beautifully expressed and thoughtful piece of writing by Mr Brunei. In these ugly times Frank's words are a balm to my anxious soul. Thank you.
1
White working class men should realize that the only ones oppressing them are multinational corporations and ultra-wealthy white men.
Their anger at other groups is misplaced. Propaganda right-wing media is whipping up fury against others as part of a divide-and-conquer by the oligarchy.
Wise up, people. Don't fall for it.
Their anger at other groups is misplaced. Propaganda right-wing media is whipping up fury against others as part of a divide-and-conquer by the oligarchy.
Wise up, people. Don't fall for it.
6
Each person is an individual. No other person can know what it's completely like to be you. You cannot know everything about someone else. Boxes and generalizations are the quick and easy shortcuts that people use.
And it's the lazy way out. It's much more work and threatening to oneself to admit that you don't know something. All these talking heads that fill up the airtime on cable news are "experts", and experts get paid more money and have more of a voice. In reality, these "experts" don't know everything either. They know facts (real facts) and offer opinions, but their opinions will never completely agree with someone else's opinions.
Good for you, Frank. Celebrate the diversity of individuals. Actively listen to others, and offer empathy or constructive criticism. Know that you can learn from those in one of your categories or outside your categories. But if you run into someone who seems to know everything about everyone and couldn't possibly ever be wrong (think of our current President), they're either a fraud or not human.
And it's the lazy way out. It's much more work and threatening to oneself to admit that you don't know something. All these talking heads that fill up the airtime on cable news are "experts", and experts get paid more money and have more of a voice. In reality, these "experts" don't know everything either. They know facts (real facts) and offer opinions, but their opinions will never completely agree with someone else's opinions.
Good for you, Frank. Celebrate the diversity of individuals. Actively listen to others, and offer empathy or constructive criticism. Know that you can learn from those in one of your categories or outside your categories. But if you run into someone who seems to know everything about everyone and couldn't possibly ever be wrong (think of our current President), they're either a fraud or not human.
2
Frank this article is not reaching those ears that need to hear.
I think identity politics is a loser for everyone. We should be talking about violence & poverty & inequality, not about who gets victimized more (as if that were in question).
But it always seems like getting shouted down or banned by politically correct students gets these right wing white-identity champions a lot of free publicity & attention, and I often suspect that that kind of "censorship" was their goal to begin with.
But it always seems like getting shouted down or banned by politically correct students gets these right wing white-identity champions a lot of free publicity & attention, and I often suspect that that kind of "censorship" was their goal to begin with.
1
One of the great achievements of 18th century philosophy -- the enlightened rationalism that informed the founders of this country -- was the declaration that all men were created equal. Of course, we have never lived up to this ideal -- indeed, the declaration itself excludes half of humanity. Still, we have made progress, and if you believe in the promise of America, that progress is a good thing and we have miles to go before we can rest easy. Those who are victimized by inherent and inherited privilege deserve a voice, and it is not inconceivable that they can be heard with compassion, if not full comprehension. After all, we share a common humanity. Having said that, however, if we divide the world into victims and victimizers -- then, by extension, the good guys and the evil oppressors -- we have backed ourselves into our factionalized corners. If the good and the evil are tied inextricably to race and heritage, regardless which side one finds oneself, we know where this leads. We have seen it over and over and over again, and it leads nowhere good. Bruni is right. The real evil, the real betrayal of the American promise, lies not in our imperfections, which are legion, but in our descent into identity-based factionalism.
2
The interminable estrangement of black people, is the same painful estrangement that white people must take upon ourselves, if we are to do the right thing.
White terrorists are fostered by alt right white supremacists who are fostered by the less extreme right wing bigots, then, social conservatives, laizze faire libertarians and so on. Continuity of support by adjacent communities of fellow whites. All the way to a liberal, gay, thoughtful, white man who wants to help.
Blacks are insisting that we estrange ourselves from this connectivity by fiercely rejecting the entire association. Not just at the ballot box but in real time. We would need to accept sacrifices of power because of the loss of association.
Half of Congress voted for health care reform which was boldly racist. Do we estrange ourselves from them? Shun them? No, we beg for civility, compromise, bi-partisanship. Jeff Session gleefully ramps up every archaic, cruel and senselessly draconian aspect of an inhumane criminal justice system that ruins the lives of millions of black Americans every year. Do we shun him or draw him into the fold when he is attacked by the President?
It would be painful for white people to estrange themselves from white oppression. To refuse any profit from such association. We aren't used estrangement, but to getting along with other white people. Our community would be unrecognizable.
White terrorists are fostered by alt right white supremacists who are fostered by the less extreme right wing bigots, then, social conservatives, laizze faire libertarians and so on. Continuity of support by adjacent communities of fellow whites. All the way to a liberal, gay, thoughtful, white man who wants to help.
Blacks are insisting that we estrange ourselves from this connectivity by fiercely rejecting the entire association. Not just at the ballot box but in real time. We would need to accept sacrifices of power because of the loss of association.
Half of Congress voted for health care reform which was boldly racist. Do we estrange ourselves from them? Shun them? No, we beg for civility, compromise, bi-partisanship. Jeff Session gleefully ramps up every archaic, cruel and senselessly draconian aspect of an inhumane criminal justice system that ruins the lives of millions of black Americans every year. Do we shun him or draw him into the fold when he is attacked by the President?
It would be painful for white people to estrange themselves from white oppression. To refuse any profit from such association. We aren't used estrangement, but to getting along with other white people. Our community would be unrecognizable.
3
Perfect timing.
I like everything about me. My race, my gender, my sexuality, my religion,
my upbringing, my family history. I have no problem with anybody else liking, rejecting or questioning theirs. I do have a problem with people who have a problem with me.
my upbringing, my family history. I have no problem with anybody else liking, rejecting or questioning theirs. I do have a problem with people who have a problem with me.
2
Agree absolutely. Virtually everyone can play the "victim card" of one or more identities; everyone stands in multiple identity shoes, but this "intersectionality" means that everyone also stands in a position of privilege with regard to some other people--by virtue (sic) of class, gender, ethnicity, native-born status, you name it. What Mr. Bruni describes could be labelled a new kind of logical fallacy: the Argument Ad White Hominem.
I 'm a 77 year old Jew. Hear me out.
I never had an opportunity to meet or speak to my grandparents on my dad's side. He had 4 brothers and 3 sisters, I never had the opportunity to meet and know any of my aunts, uncles and cousins. The nazis murdered every last one of them.
My dad was a wonderful man, he taught me to be tolerant and thoughtful and I have tried to live my life by his tenets and beliefs. One vestige of the nazi reign of murder and terror that he railed against (which I have since learned was part of a Jewish survivor belief) was that Jews should never wear tan or brown because of the nazi thug "brown shirts" that were the murderers of countless Jewish victims.
Today watching video of last night's torch bearing KKK members and today's brown shirted hate filled armed thugs I thought about how would my father react to seeing it. A large segment of one faction of the colliding crowd was dressed in nazi style tan shirts and wearing Nazi style helmets.
Mr.President say what is 100% needed. There is no need to as you say "straighten it out, to study it". Hate, anti-Semitism, Racism are looking you right in your face no need to "study it" sir, call it out by name and denounce it by name.
My dad lost 31 members of his immediate family. There are at the least 6,000,000 more reasons for you to man up. Come on tough guy; say it.
Honor my father, honor the families of all the victims of racism and anti- Semitism and stand up and say, today it ends here.
I never had an opportunity to meet or speak to my grandparents on my dad's side. He had 4 brothers and 3 sisters, I never had the opportunity to meet and know any of my aunts, uncles and cousins. The nazis murdered every last one of them.
My dad was a wonderful man, he taught me to be tolerant and thoughtful and I have tried to live my life by his tenets and beliefs. One vestige of the nazi reign of murder and terror that he railed against (which I have since learned was part of a Jewish survivor belief) was that Jews should never wear tan or brown because of the nazi thug "brown shirts" that were the murderers of countless Jewish victims.
Today watching video of last night's torch bearing KKK members and today's brown shirted hate filled armed thugs I thought about how would my father react to seeing it. A large segment of one faction of the colliding crowd was dressed in nazi style tan shirts and wearing Nazi style helmets.
Mr.President say what is 100% needed. There is no need to as you say "straighten it out, to study it". Hate, anti-Semitism, Racism are looking you right in your face no need to "study it" sir, call it out by name and denounce it by name.
My dad lost 31 members of his immediate family. There are at the least 6,000,000 more reasons for you to man up. Come on tough guy; say it.
Honor my father, honor the families of all the victims of racism and anti- Semitism and stand up and say, today it ends here.
7
Something overlooked in these conversations, whether we're talking about college campuses or community conversations, is the American need to compete. Our vision of political participation is intrinsically bound with a competitive, scarcity model of the world (deriving from neoliberal values), wherein public speech is legitimate when others' voices have been silenced, when we have "won." I appreciate the author's attempts to navigate difficult territory, exploring privilege and intersectionality (without that name) and the important reality that each individual's social and historical experiences build into his/her ways of being in the world. However, you still hear in his writing a fight for legitimacy, a curiosity about alternate perspectives only insofar as they can be employed to serve his point, a clawing back to inherent rightness which he seems to believe he deserves given the penultimate line ("My gayness no more redeems me than my whiteness disqualifies me"). Your disqualification comes from the event of the publication of this column over the silence of the voices of many others who are NOT heard, and your dismissal of "identity politics" via anecdotal and cherrypicked reasoning forecloses on the concerns of people who experience live in marginalized roles and communities and their allies. This smacks of colorblind thinking and post-racial politics of the early 2000s.
2
To call anyone "white" is as gross an over-simplification as to group people under the "black" label. Every individual, as Bruni points out, is a complex human being. Examining any "white" person's ancestry and you're likely to find incredible suffering and hardship. We're all just at different points in the same arc.
Side note: is it just me, or has Bruni become more "conservative" (and reasoned) as he's aged.
Side note: is it just me, or has Bruni become more "conservative" (and reasoned) as he's aged.
We all must acknowledge that life is hard. It is hard for most everybody.
And everyone you meet has problems. Everyone. So be nice.
And everyone you meet has problems. Everyone. So be nice.
2
The United States is being burdened with a substantial segment of the population that is too dumb and too easily manipulated and it's costing everyone.
Basically, George Soros and the Leftist/Communist/Anarchistic are getting a return on their investment.
We need Donald Trump now more than ever, and a higher power has sent him to us.
Basically, George Soros and the Leftist/Communist/Anarchistic are getting a return on their investment.
We need Donald Trump now more than ever, and a higher power has sent him to us.
3
Thank you Mr Bruni- Now I'm thinking more clearly.
But I'm still on the confusing path to answering 'why' and 'how'.
Does knowledge and Aha! insight set us up to live wisely and interact with others more productively for them and me? Many of us are trying. It's painful to recognize in myself the limitations of human improvement. It's only by the chance confluence of our personalities, skills, perceived positions on the social ladder (attractiveness), that we periodically find ourselves in a it-doesn't-get-better-than-this moment.
You've made me think . . . more. Thank you.
Where to from my place?
Thought the frog, before he leaped
Into morning fog
But I'm still on the confusing path to answering 'why' and 'how'.
Does knowledge and Aha! insight set us up to live wisely and interact with others more productively for them and me? Many of us are trying. It's painful to recognize in myself the limitations of human improvement. It's only by the chance confluence of our personalities, skills, perceived positions on the social ladder (attractiveness), that we periodically find ourselves in a it-doesn't-get-better-than-this moment.
You've made me think . . . more. Thank you.
Where to from my place?
Thought the frog, before he leaped
Into morning fog
1
In a word ... empathy.
Ah, Mr. Bruni, what you feel as "nullification," as having no voice, as your opinion discounted... well, that is not because you are white, but well, because this is now a minority majority country so whiteness carries no longer the imprimatur of authority. So as you conclude, it is what you bring to the table and public forum, not your looks, what counts.
In way history is repeating itself. Go back to 1890-1910 when the "undesireable"Irish and Italian working class immigrants were flooding into the country. They were heavy drinkers and partiers. Every big city had hundreds of saloons and brothels. The WASP ruling class was appalled and responded with Prohibition. Today the white working class is rebelling against "the other" as well. Both movements are/were based on ignorance and bigotry.
Very well written Mr. Bruni.
Hate sells. It's a huge money-maker. Just ask Rush Limbaugh and few hundred other hate-radio commentators and evangelical preachers. Wasn't it Trump's hateful birther campaign that catapulted him into the White House? Another stunning 'success'.
Just as it would be unfair to put all white males (including all white gay males like Bruni and me) into a single sociological box, it would be unfair to put the entire 'media' into a single box.
But those particular sectors of the media that promote intolerance and stoke the fires of rage against The Other do so because it pays fantastic financial awards. According to Forbes, Rush Limbaugh's haul this year is $84 million, while Sean Hannity annual take is $36 million, and so it goes.
Dīvide et īmpera - Divide and Rule - was the ancient Roman modus operandi, and it still works in modern America as the profiteers of hate pit us against each other by race or gender, and so forth by every possible identity down the line. And do we even need to mention the everlasting war machine of the military-industrial complex?
Just as it would be unfair to put all white males (including all white gay males like Bruni and me) into a single sociological box, it would be unfair to put the entire 'media' into a single box.
But those particular sectors of the media that promote intolerance and stoke the fires of rage against The Other do so because it pays fantastic financial awards. According to Forbes, Rush Limbaugh's haul this year is $84 million, while Sean Hannity annual take is $36 million, and so it goes.
Dīvide et īmpera - Divide and Rule - was the ancient Roman modus operandi, and it still works in modern America as the profiteers of hate pit us against each other by race or gender, and so forth by every possible identity down the line. And do we even need to mention the everlasting war machine of the military-industrial complex?
1
Bravo. Good article.
Our black president, born in 1961 in cosmopolitan Hawaii, is an exponentially more worldly man than our current presidential pillar of hollow bombast whose racism always strikes me more as a sad function of his provincialism or powerlessness than anything else.
1
White privilege is being a part of culture that values family, education and achievement. First of all is family, without it you have nothing.
1
What is with all this hate and judgement of 'others'? Regardless of who we are (where we come from, the colour of our skin, our age, our gender, our sexual orientation, our religion or lack thereof, our economic plight, our educational level, our abilities or disabilities) we need to be respectful of each other. We are all human being just trying to get by in this often difficult world. Can we make the effort to try to be a bit more kind. Just a little more kindness will go a long way.
Thanks!
Attempting to stifle other people from speaking is, very simply, bullying.
The means used are irrelevant. When someone tells you that you have no basic right to an opinion because you are not from such and such group, they are attempting to bully you into silence.
One of the many reasons people do this is because they lack the mental acuity to justify their own views and are afraid of being challenged.
Other reasons include, of course, prejudice.
When I encounter that I move away quickly. There's very little point in trying to confront it. It makes me a bit sad though. I often feel sad for people whose identity is so completely tied up with their skin color, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. What a sad, narrow life to lead! We are so much more than any of those things. We have both so much in common with each other and such individuality.
I marvel that our DNA differs from chimpanzees by only 1.2% and yet we see such vast differences between each other. The truth is, we are all 98.8% chimp!
And yet each one of us is completely unique!
Attempting to stifle other people from speaking is, very simply, bullying.
The means used are irrelevant. When someone tells you that you have no basic right to an opinion because you are not from such and such group, they are attempting to bully you into silence.
One of the many reasons people do this is because they lack the mental acuity to justify their own views and are afraid of being challenged.
Other reasons include, of course, prejudice.
When I encounter that I move away quickly. There's very little point in trying to confront it. It makes me a bit sad though. I often feel sad for people whose identity is so completely tied up with their skin color, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. What a sad, narrow life to lead! We are so much more than any of those things. We have both so much in common with each other and such individuality.
I marvel that our DNA differs from chimpanzees by only 1.2% and yet we see such vast differences between each other. The truth is, we are all 98.8% chimp!
And yet each one of us is completely unique!
Amen Mr. Bruni. There is far too much disregard of others' opinions as irrelevant or, worse yet, hurtful or insulting, and therefore intolerable. We need to be a thick skinned, but fully democratic people. Bad ideas should be disregarded because we realize they are stupid and bad ideas after discourse - not because they are spoken by a certain person or because they hurt someone else's feelings. No doubt privilege can sometimes deliver skewed and misinformed perspectives, but sometimes privilege brings wisdom. I would prefer civil discourse on all topics. But, when that is not possible - unrestricted debate is better than censored debate. The latter is far more likely to lead to violence, something that must never be tolerated.
I read a lot about white racists that owned slaves. I don't read a lot about the whites racists that fought and gave their lives to end the institution of slavery. But many did. Would love to see that acknowledged if not explained.
1
"I'm A White Man - Hear Me Out"
Hear you out?
What is it you think the rest of us have been doing for the last four hundred years?
Hear you out?
What is it you think the rest of us have been doing for the last four hundred years?
9
Most of us white folks did not have privilege at all and most of us were not well off like this writer. We worked from a young age and worked our entire life at low wages at first and worked our way up by education or experience. If you do not do for yourself or just give up easily then you will fail in life and it really is that simple. Why are there millions and millions of successful minorities and yet the ones that are not blame everyone, every government or the old white guy for their status in life? We need to stop codding these people and tell them we know they can succeed without welfare. Personal responsibility is what it takes to succeed, not being white.
1
I agree with this piece. I think a large part of the problem is rooted in the increasing narcissism brought about by social media, which has made it all about me me and me.
It's a symptom of the polarization of everything by social media where every half baked thought gerund is snowballed by others into somrting big.
if anyone pretends to understand or sympathize that erases the lines people have drawn around themselves.
It's a symptom of the polarization of everything by social media where every half baked thought gerund is snowballed by others into somrting big.
if anyone pretends to understand or sympathize that erases the lines people have drawn around themselves.
Let me understand. You have a lock on some of the most prime journalistic real estate in the world where you get to say whatever you want and millions of people will read it, and you're STILL complaining about not being heard enough? To paraphrase one of those people you dismissed in your column, I don't need one more scion of privilege whining about how he doesn't have more.
3
As a white man who spent 15-1/2 years teaching middle school world history to mostly African American kids in the Leimert Park neighborhood of South Los Angeles, I've had a fair amount of remarks made to me about my whiteness by African Americans. Some were students, some were fellow faculty members, and some were my administrators. Probably the most offensive - and ridiculous - was that I, a white man, had nothing to teach black children.
The things I read about in this column are part of the "safe space", "trigger warning", "I'm a bigger victim than you could ever be" segment of today's left wing that is totally lacking in both real self respect and common sense. They are as whiny as the Republicans they claim to despise.
The things I read about in this column are part of the "safe space", "trigger warning", "I'm a bigger victim than you could ever be" segment of today's left wing that is totally lacking in both real self respect and common sense. They are as whiny as the Republicans they claim to despise.
2
It would serve us well to remember that the spark that ignited this surge of bigotry in Charlottesville was the effort of a largely white community (69 percent) to remove the vestiges of the Confederacy because the people of that city had sufficient empathy to recognize that the defenders of slavery were not heroes to America's people. The interlopers who invaded Charlottesville were outsiders who found a moment in time to have the strength of numbers to make themselves appear to be the representatives of their race. They are not. They will not be.
Another way of putting it. The new morality ignores personal responsibility. Judge by who is saying something rather than what they say. A formula for anarchy, not for a functional society.
The ancient struggle to liberate ourselves from tribalism and ethnocentrism is still unresolved. The delusion of racial identity has its roots in the mis-understanding of science known as Social Darwinism.
Sadly, that delusion is now deeply entangled in our legacies - inevitably in ALL our legacies.
We all have work to do to root out those delusions, notice the complex legacies.
All of us have ancestors who were oppressed and those who were oppressors.
The question in this painful moment when the unfinished business of the emancipation movements from two centuries ago, when that uncivil war raises its bloody head, is:
What are you going to do to further liberation right now?
One thing is certain: either you are struggling, however awkwardly, for solutions, or you are merely sustaining the problem.
Just now, we are all called to do what we can. This ancient struggle could still be lost.
Me, I'm going to a rally today, the day after the battle of Charlottesville.
Sadly, that delusion is now deeply entangled in our legacies - inevitably in ALL our legacies.
We all have work to do to root out those delusions, notice the complex legacies.
All of us have ancestors who were oppressed and those who were oppressors.
The question in this painful moment when the unfinished business of the emancipation movements from two centuries ago, when that uncivil war raises its bloody head, is:
What are you going to do to further liberation right now?
One thing is certain: either you are struggling, however awkwardly, for solutions, or you are merely sustaining the problem.
Just now, we are all called to do what we can. This ancient struggle could still be lost.
Me, I'm going to a rally today, the day after the battle of Charlottesville.
Best thing in this column....categories don't equal credentials. Worst thing...white males' place in the narrative of this country is priveledged and UNEARNED (see the struggles during the founding against another kind of oppression, without which, no country). Essentially Bruni gets it right, but then I'm white and male so who cares?
I'm a latino woman who finds many of the assumptions of identity politics reductive, essentializing, and yes, even racist and sexist. I will not be reduced to my gender or race. I'm a human being with a unique personal experience that's complex and involves far more that either.
It's not that identity is a bad tool of analysis. It's just an incomplete one. It tends to ignore both class and personal experience. How many times now have I heard identity fundamentalists say that concerns about class are "just white men wanting to make sure their rights are upheld above all others'"?
Class has colored my own worldview far more than race or gender. I personally know white men who, because of their class standing, have far less control over their own destiny than I. Lacking a college degree, one of them is stuck in a dead-end job. Lacking cultural capital of any value, he's limited in his ability to control his social and even romantic prospects. In my book, I'm far more privileged than he.
It's not that identity is a bad tool of analysis. It's just an incomplete one. It tends to ignore both class and personal experience. How many times now have I heard identity fundamentalists say that concerns about class are "just white men wanting to make sure their rights are upheld above all others'"?
Class has colored my own worldview far more than race or gender. I personally know white men who, because of their class standing, have far less control over their own destiny than I. Lacking a college degree, one of them is stuck in a dead-end job. Lacking cultural capital of any value, he's limited in his ability to control his social and even romantic prospects. In my book, I'm far more privileged than he.
I CANNOT feel what a hawk - porpoise - tiger - mongoose feels.
I CAN feel what a Black - brown - red - yellow man feels;
I am a human male, there is NO experience, passion, joy or sorrow felt by any man that I cannot relate to on some level, however poorly or incompletely, I can understand his life.
If this is not so then the KKK, White Supremists are right;
There is such a gulf between us, because of the most inconsequential aspect of our existence - the color of our skin - that it can never be bridged.
If this is so then there is nothing left but to arm ourselves and take to the streets.
Whoever is left standing is right and can compose the history of the great killing.
I CAN feel what a Black - brown - red - yellow man feels;
I am a human male, there is NO experience, passion, joy or sorrow felt by any man that I cannot relate to on some level, however poorly or incompletely, I can understand his life.
If this is not so then the KKK, White Supremists are right;
There is such a gulf between us, because of the most inconsequential aspect of our existence - the color of our skin - that it can never be bridged.
If this is so then there is nothing left but to arm ourselves and take to the streets.
Whoever is left standing is right and can compose the history of the great killing.
2
Frank Bruni's dad may feel guilty because his dad made six figures, but America has a lot more poor whites than poor blacks, poor Hispanics or poor Asian. The U.S. Census Bureau’s most recent poverty estimates shows that 19 million non-Hispanic white Americans, 13 million white Hispanic Americans, 11 million black Americans and 2 million Asians Americans live below poverty level. If affirmative action were based on economic hardships, most affirmative action preferences in college admissions would go to white students. This is the reason affirmative action is based on race and ethnicity, not socioeconomics.
http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/...
http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2014/demo/...
1
The divisive politics created by this will take decades to reverse as it took decades for the Democrats to create this environment. The interim period will be very painful and violent. Those that continue to get traction from this false premise, that the world is full of tribes who have been wrongs by American white men, will continue to react violently as more and more realize the Democrat's message is vacuous.
I am a white man. Yet, I appear in a book about American slavery - "The Light That Shines In Dreams". It is a fictionalized account of how a group of slaves ran from oppression to seek their freedom, and is written in large part from their perspective. How could a white author know enough to write from the experience of slaves? In this case, it is because his ancestors were slave owners. This brings a different context into the discussion, one of stains being on the ancestral soul. Being a slave owner during the Civil War era was quite common in the deep South. Indeed, deprivation of an entire people’s natural liberties was the framework for the economic vitality of the emergent American South. But, by today's moral standards, the idea of owning another human is repugnant and appalling. Still, this mentality continues to rear its ugly head in places across the country, not just in the South. Many attitudes toward race which are abhorrent to modern ways of thinking still pervade the American ethos today.
The White Supremacist movement does not represent American ideals. It is no more than an egregious continuation of the ignorant hatred and bigotry that ripped the country apart a century and a half ago.
This is a time for healing. It will require a common endeavor of all people working together toward the equality envisioned by the Constitution to bring about the moral prosperity America needs. And it will come from the people, not from this deranged government.
The White Supremacist movement does not represent American ideals. It is no more than an egregious continuation of the ignorant hatred and bigotry that ripped the country apart a century and a half ago.
This is a time for healing. It will require a common endeavor of all people working together toward the equality envisioned by the Constitution to bring about the moral prosperity America needs. And it will come from the people, not from this deranged government.
2
Sharon Cranford is my 6th cousin. Charlie Mast is her ancestor, a slave to his white father. Read about this in Kinship Concealed. I heard Sharon tell of her heritage, her brother was Joe Namath's offensive tackle. No blame, just find success:Own where you live;live where you own.
Great column. It's a keeper. Why the title change from the print edition?
What is the end game for all the progressive whites who say "ugh white people"?
The ugly truth is this paternalistic white ally mindset seeks to put "good" whites at the head of a minority movement that is not theirs to lead.
By having race be the defining aspect of a person's identity and legitimacy to speak on issues is the ultimate contradiction to the Civil Rights moment.
The ugly truth is this paternalistic white ally mindset seeks to put "good" whites at the head of a minority movement that is not theirs to lead.
By having race be the defining aspect of a person's identity and legitimacy to speak on issues is the ultimate contradiction to the Civil Rights moment.
Well, we are reaping the whirlwind of relentless identity politics. Hope you are happy with the result. You and people like you, Frank, own it.
4
Excellent column...hatred, religious intolerance and bigotry have no virtues and free speech has no vice. The dark voices on the far right and far left need to be drowned out peacefull by those of us who value freedom and civility.
5
As a white male, I can't relate to the discrimination bigotry and violence that blacks experienced in the 50's. But I can speak up about the lawlessness and cultural bias I'm now seeing with my own eyes. When blacks riot, steal, destroy property, incite violence and commit violence, as happened in Ferguson, Missouri and many other places, this is all excused and downplayed as part of the "black struggle for justice." I don't understand the "struggle" of blacks in America; thanks to Affirmative Action, blacks are chosen over any other race for jobs and college admissions, even over better-qualified non-black candidates. All I have to know is that our country is not as safe as it was before violent "black struggle" protests became acceptable, and it's due to racial strife caused by blacks.
3
"I’m a white man, so you should listen to absolutely nothing I say"
And that right there is why we have the problems we have. Years of being trained to think "I am white I am worthless, my opinions mean nothing"
Those days are over now.. as most of you can tell.
And that right there is why we have the problems we have. Years of being trained to think "I am white I am worthless, my opinions mean nothing"
Those days are over now.. as most of you can tell.
1
So you think the opinions of the white suprematist thugs in Virginia are now opinions that matter to the rest of us? In fact, I think they are achieving the opposite. I'll listen to Einstein, Edison, Helen Keller and Mother Teresa, Mozart, Debussy, Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Frank Lloyd Wright, Irving Berlin, Eleanor Roosevelt etc.etc. if you want to demonstrate what white people have to be proud of in their heritage. But if the Charlottesville display is an example of the kind of nation those people want the rest of us to live in, then you're most certainly going to get a big "no, thanks!", even from most white Americans, for whom this group is certainly doing no favors!
Everyone's opinions are based on their personal experiences and identities. So when people (like Phobe Maltz Bovy), advise white men (like me) to "check your privilege," the message it sends is that my thoughts and opinions are somehow less worthy because I have not been subjected to racial and/or sex discrimination. Would anyone dare tell a black person to "check your hardship" if he or she were to express a controversial opinion? Admonitions like "check your privilege" accomplish little other than to exacerbate social tensions and stir resentment, which helped to elect Donald Trump.
6
Neither do black people. I don't see colors or labels unless you want me too. Me? I am just an American. Get my point?
2
Only a white person could say "I don't see colors or labels". African-Americans are forced to reckon with them every day.
This is exactly what's meant by "check your privilege".
This is exactly what's meant by "check your privilege".
I love you, Frank Bruni.
4
The flip side of yesterday's violent Virginia confrontation is the ridiculous spectacle of Mr. Bruni having to publicly express his complete "unworthiness" to discuss anyone else's "pain" and "victimhood" because his parents provided him the best opportunities they could afford.
It is certain that Osama Bin Laden, just before he ordered the suicide attacks upon the Town Towers, also lamented his middle-class upbringing and had a column prepared for publication in which he also lamented his inability to fully appreciate Muslim victimhood.
But Mr. Bruni has an ace up his sleeve. He is gay.
Now, he is somewhat "redeemed" Now he can, in a small way, participate in the national Leftist flagellation called "identity politics," the ever more deadly religion of the "alt left" , a religion which washes clean the PC march toward censorship, the refusal to debate or engage, the elimination in the workplace and on campus of any ideology which challenges identity politics and the legions of self-described victims.
All of this would be so puerile and pointless, except that the Left's straw man, the alt.right, came to Virginia.
I remember when the Rev. Al Sharpton brought NYC to the brink of a racial explosion just by perpetrating the Tawana Brawley hoax. Kind of like a "blood libel" in reverse. The fact that the Rev. Al never went to jail is another story, but he almost got what he wished for.
The protestors and counter-protestors are today just mirror images of each other.
It is certain that Osama Bin Laden, just before he ordered the suicide attacks upon the Town Towers, also lamented his middle-class upbringing and had a column prepared for publication in which he also lamented his inability to fully appreciate Muslim victimhood.
But Mr. Bruni has an ace up his sleeve. He is gay.
Now, he is somewhat "redeemed" Now he can, in a small way, participate in the national Leftist flagellation called "identity politics," the ever more deadly religion of the "alt left" , a religion which washes clean the PC march toward censorship, the refusal to debate or engage, the elimination in the workplace and on campus of any ideology which challenges identity politics and the legions of self-described victims.
All of this would be so puerile and pointless, except that the Left's straw man, the alt.right, came to Virginia.
I remember when the Rev. Al Sharpton brought NYC to the brink of a racial explosion just by perpetrating the Tawana Brawley hoax. Kind of like a "blood libel" in reverse. The fact that the Rev. Al never went to jail is another story, but he almost got what he wished for.
The protestors and counter-protestors are today just mirror images of each other.
3
Osama bin Laden's family were most likely among the 1% richest people in Saudi Arabia and Yemen.
1
Yes, because fighting for racial equality is just the same as fighting to make non-whites second class citizens.
The genie is out of the bottle. There is no putting it back into the bottle. Everyone must identify, it's the future. We will have cards with our grievances printed up to present to our would-be partners in conversation, lest they say anything that will trigger us in apoplexy, before a word is spoken.
1
There are those of us who HAVE grievances and those of us who DON'T.
What's lost in the echo chamber of victimization on the Left is any sense of personal responsibility for one's circumstances. The Left toyed a bit in the 1990s with the notion of personal responsibility, but that meme has been rooted out: Leftists are now back to blaming the White Patriarchy for the travails of minorities and women....even as minorities and women have made huge strides over the past few decades. What the Left is facing now is the inconvenient fact that not all gays, blacks and women are created equal. Some gays are cashiers at Target, others are NY Times columnists. Some blacks are President and head of GM Design, others are drug addicts in Detroit. And so on. This is called meritocracy. Its also called the human condition. Will the Left accept this, or continue on its destructive and divisive path of blaming white males for the inadequacies of various minority individuals? Acceptance has never been an option for the Social Justice Warrior set, so the culture wars, unfortunately, will roll on. Oh lucky us.
4
Left, schmeft, right, schmight. Equal justice for all - carved into the molding on the front of the Supreme Court.
Thank you for voicing a breeze of reason in this tired contest of who's the bigger victim and deserves a special place in line.
2
It's not about our "identities," but what our values are. I was raised to respect authentically Christian values, such as "love your neighbor as yourself." Other cultures and religions share these values, which promote a cooperative and peaceful society. Buddhism was a forerunner of Christianity, and Gandhi's favorite chapter of the Hindu Baghavad-Gita closely resembles the Sermon on the Mount. Favoring your own identity group too strongly against others - whether that group is white males, wealthy WASPs, or any other - is contrary to christian values, on which the USA was founded. In the spirit of the Enlightenment, the founders of the USA rejected British colonialism, which had been exploiting us. Although slavery was originally part of American society, we rejected it by an enlightened understanding of what it means to "love your neighbor." It's all about values.
1
Well said!
Let's not substitute one form of glibness for another.
White man's privilege, unearned?
What percentage of scientific inventions, Nobel prizes, architecture and infrastructure has been driven by white men?
Let's not trample the facts in the search for justice.
134
Does a Nobel prize from a handful of White individuals justify slavery, Jim Crow laws, or the hatred and taking of a life in Charlottesville? Are a few White individuals' achievements more important than the achievements of other races? An education in World History would allow one to appreciate the discoveries and cultures of other great civilizations.
The overall problem with the race discussion is the use of examples from a handful of individuals of a certain race to justify that race having more or less privilege than others. Instead, in this day and age, we should focus on the present and appreciate each individual's strengths and weaknesses.
The overall problem with the race discussion is the use of examples from a handful of individuals of a certain race to justify that race having more or less privilege than others. Instead, in this day and age, we should focus on the present and appreciate each individual's strengths and weaknesses.
5
Who's to say those accomplishments wouldn't have been made by others if the power structure hadn't deliberately excluded them from institutions of education and political power? Whoever is holding the reigns gets credit for driving the horse.
3
Every scientific invention, architecture and infrastructure and technology that the brown/black Egyptians and Africans, the brown Chinese, Indians and Japanese and the brown Native Americans and South East Asians discovered or invented are historical facts that white European male mythical supremacy chooses to ignore.
Ignorance about those facts is the supreme injustice.
Ignorance about those facts is the supreme injustice.
2
Mr. Bruni's analysis is sensitive and subtle, but doesn't address the deeper dynamic at work in this era.
As with so-called "political correctness," the pairing of "identity" with "authority to speak" can indeed become a caricature of itself. But that is the least of our problems.
The political right, and sadly too many on what's left of the left, use the very occasional excesses of "political correctness" or "identity politics" as a bludgeon to silence the real and growing realities of racism, backlash against LGBTQ folks and feminism.
The dismissive, often haughty ridicule, rhetoric about "PC" and "identity politics" is a conservative way of humiliating and further marginalizing those who are already on the margins.
As a privileged white male, I'm aware that I lose nothing by listening, by supporting, and by trying to open my capacity for empathy.
As with so-called "political correctness," the pairing of "identity" with "authority to speak" can indeed become a caricature of itself. But that is the least of our problems.
The political right, and sadly too many on what's left of the left, use the very occasional excesses of "political correctness" or "identity politics" as a bludgeon to silence the real and growing realities of racism, backlash against LGBTQ folks and feminism.
The dismissive, often haughty ridicule, rhetoric about "PC" and "identity politics" is a conservative way of humiliating and further marginalizing those who are already on the margins.
As a privileged white male, I'm aware that I lose nothing by listening, by supporting, and by trying to open my capacity for empathy.
212
What the professor was searching for, and you, is the (what used to be common) belief in a set of universal ideas, ideals and culture that bound the majority of people together by what was similar - universal - to the experience and condition of Mankind. That has been replaced by the celebration of the individual idea of each small minority based on their gender identity, race, socio-economic background, etc. etc. It is a celebration of the individual character, thoughts and ideals of individual experiences or minority experiences. But it is inherently divisive - even more so considering the radical attitudes and actions of some in those groups who are militant and intolerant of the majority and the POSSIBILITY that there ARE universal ideas, links, character, and experience for all humans. In this universality resides understanding and acceptance - not in the righteous militancy of the "oppressed" minority, especially when such "oppression" takes the form of "micro-aggressions" that "trigger" them into militant outrage, protest and violent expression. To recognize our commonalities and reinforce them is not to minimize anyone or their experiences, but to realize they ARE a part of the whole - not the aggrieved minority they claim to be, just part of Mankind. To progress as a species, that universality is what we must nurture and celebrate.
3
Most everyone has some sort of baggage in their background that may undermine a point of view. But I think the adage "It's not what you say, but how you say it" applies here. If you try to make a point, even if it's valid, in a preachy way, then people are more likely to dismiss your argument because of the background factors mentioned in the article. But if you soften the argument by prefacing it with "Is it fair to say ..." then you're just tossing it on the table for discussion where pro and con arguments carry equal weight, and the thought is more likely to be fairly evaluated in the discussion.
It's all about respect. If you show yourself to be respectful of others and their points of view, they are likely to afford you the same courtesy.
It's all about respect. If you show yourself to be respectful of others and their points of view, they are likely to afford you the same courtesy.
4
A calm, measured and open tone that leaves room to accept as valid, all the factors and life experiences that define us - and - shockingly there is no hysterical ranting.
Bravo.
Bravo.
2
Agreed. Well done Mr. Bruni.
Maybe wrong day for this column Mr. Bruni with 1 dead and 35 injured in Charlottesville at a white supremacy rally. Guess something is going serious wrong with our country that we can't face the fact that some white males (not all) in power have exacted a terrible price from minorities and women for their privilege. Some of us have no way of "hiding" characteristics about ourselves such as color or sex. If you want to really understand why there is a discount explanations of white male anxiousness think about who is President and what occurred in Charlottesville and the President's response.
182
The great leveler, as has been said, is grief. The ineffable pain of unexpected, tragic, often early, deaths in one's family or among one's friends. The heartbreak of romantic betrayal. The brokenness of financial ruin. The agony of family addiction. The evaporation of self when dismissed by from employment.
Show me this group of people and I will show you a group of men and women and children who can speak soul to soul with anyone on the planet. And who value every single person they meet. Those who face tragedy, and find the strength to climb over the fences of grief and forgiveness, learn the greatest lesson of all: they become completely open to the world. And have eyes that shine with kindness and love. They are the ones you can trust. Look for them. They are all around you.
Show me this group of people and I will show you a group of men and women and children who can speak soul to soul with anyone on the planet. And who value every single person they meet. Those who face tragedy, and find the strength to climb over the fences of grief and forgiveness, learn the greatest lesson of all: they become completely open to the world. And have eyes that shine with kindness and love. They are the ones you can trust. Look for them. They are all around you.
14
What a frank and welcome insight arriving like prayer in the middle of madness, like grief itself, a journey to find a way home again. Thank you.
We are everywhere indeed.
We are everywhere indeed.
2
Oh so true, thank you New England Voter.
2
The conservatives/GOP have been engaging in identity politics for a generation now. Does the Southern Strategy ring any bells?
Each day we get a new dose of some group whom we should fear or exclude from the actual party of identity politics. Transgender being barred from bathrooms and the military. LGBTQ individuals learning from our DOJ that they are not accorded equal protection under the law. Slashing legal immigration by 50% particularly those who aren't English speaking. Banning Muslim grandparents from joining their families. The DOJ seeking to use it's civil right's division to go after universities and colleges for "discrimination against whites." Women being denied a legal standard of medical care in Texas resulting in a 50% increase in the maternal mortality rate. A long-running expensive strategy to roll back voting for people of color. Encouraging the police to assume guilt and to behave brutally to those in their custody. ALL are identity politics. All promulgated by the right.
How is it that those who are instituting the laws against us aren't accused of engaging in identity politics, but when we stand up to define our rights we are accused of "identity politics."
We are constantly informed that our concerns have no validity and the only concerns about which we should care are white men's economic anxiety.
When they stop discriminating, we'll stop having to defend our rights.
Each day we get a new dose of some group whom we should fear or exclude from the actual party of identity politics. Transgender being barred from bathrooms and the military. LGBTQ individuals learning from our DOJ that they are not accorded equal protection under the law. Slashing legal immigration by 50% particularly those who aren't English speaking. Banning Muslim grandparents from joining their families. The DOJ seeking to use it's civil right's division to go after universities and colleges for "discrimination against whites." Women being denied a legal standard of medical care in Texas resulting in a 50% increase in the maternal mortality rate. A long-running expensive strategy to roll back voting for people of color. Encouraging the police to assume guilt and to behave brutally to those in their custody. ALL are identity politics. All promulgated by the right.
How is it that those who are instituting the laws against us aren't accused of engaging in identity politics, but when we stand up to define our rights we are accused of "identity politics."
We are constantly informed that our concerns have no validity and the only concerns about which we should care are white men's economic anxiety.
When they stop discriminating, we'll stop having to defend our rights.
15
What you choose to hear is the point that the author is making and what you demonstrate in your reply? This NYT article busts the myth of the southern strategy. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/magazine/10Section2b.t-4.html
Most individuals are not saying that your concerns are not valid. They are saying that all concerns should be heard. It is your choice to listen or not. It is your choice to act on them or not.
I will suggest that you recognize that we are in the midst of the greatest technological and social revolution that we have ever seen. Look at what divides us (identity on every level) vs what binds us (economic insecurity, fear of war, loss of faith in our institutions). It would seem that there are a lot of things that we could work on together, which would build trust and faith so that we can tackle all of the issues. In diplomacy between hostile states, it is call trust building measures.
Think on that approach when next some straight white guy feels that he is not being heard. Ask him what his concern is and then ask him how he thinks that concern affects every American. That is how a conversation is started.
You don't have to talk to idiots or bigots but not everybody is an idiot. Many are just scared about the changes that they cannot understand or control.
Most individuals are not saying that your concerns are not valid. They are saying that all concerns should be heard. It is your choice to listen or not. It is your choice to act on them or not.
I will suggest that you recognize that we are in the midst of the greatest technological and social revolution that we have ever seen. Look at what divides us (identity on every level) vs what binds us (economic insecurity, fear of war, loss of faith in our institutions). It would seem that there are a lot of things that we could work on together, which would build trust and faith so that we can tackle all of the issues. In diplomacy between hostile states, it is call trust building measures.
Think on that approach when next some straight white guy feels that he is not being heard. Ask him what his concern is and then ask him how he thinks that concern affects every American. That is how a conversation is started.
You don't have to talk to idiots or bigots but not everybody is an idiot. Many are just scared about the changes that they cannot understand or control.
Mr. Bruni, my message is simple: thank you for being such a wise, thoughtful reasonable voice. What you say here is perfect, I always look forward to reading your columns, and this is a pinnacle example of your always outstanding essay writing. I truly people will turn back to sound argumentation and evidence as the path forward in this nation. May the sentiments of your essay lead the way.
8
I thank God for every bit of painful misunderstanding in my long life. I thank God that this pain was the source of my finally understanding that, as Paul says, "I live now not I but Christ lives within me."
I thank God that I have also been gifted with understanding and identifying with the pain of others as a result of what I have endured. No matter if I am working with the dying, with the children of privilege, with those who live in loneliness, I have an immediate internal connectivity with them. We are all victims.
I thank God that I can ride the city bus as the only white traveling into an inner city neighborhood and be stunned at the kindness of others to me as well as attend the deaths of those of my race and link with their surrender into the ultimate reality of oneness. Death.
I ask forgiveness for my sins of contributing to, whenever and wherever, any of the hatred in this country. I thank God for bringing me along the desert of my own life's journey so that I could find him in the oasis of every other human's beauty.
I thank God that I have also been gifted with understanding and identifying with the pain of others as a result of what I have endured. No matter if I am working with the dying, with the children of privilege, with those who live in loneliness, I have an immediate internal connectivity with them. We are all victims.
I thank God that I can ride the city bus as the only white traveling into an inner city neighborhood and be stunned at the kindness of others to me as well as attend the deaths of those of my race and link with their surrender into the ultimate reality of oneness. Death.
I ask forgiveness for my sins of contributing to, whenever and wherever, any of the hatred in this country. I thank God for bringing me along the desert of my own life's journey so that I could find him in the oasis of every other human's beauty.
3
Thanks for this excellent insight for which you will no doubt be excoriated. It does no one any good to say white people cannot present logical arguments for the issues of the day because they have not experienced oppression. I do think it behooves white people to raise their consciousness on how their experiences affect their world view - but having the white skin gene mutation should not prevent them from taking part in honest, open debate.
4
Frank, I'm not entirely surprised that you've chosen sides in the culture war and joined up with the whites, just disgusted.
As an elder gay man, I hereby revoke your membership. Go play with the neo-Nazis if they'll have you.
As an elder gay man, I hereby revoke your membership. Go play with the neo-Nazis if they'll have you.
4
I don't think Frank said he chose one side, rather that polarization has occurred
in terms of color, education, sexual orientation, regionalism, etc.
I think Frank mourns the passing of a melting pot image of American life, which was a dream of toleration and empathy. Alas, politicians, preachers, professors, and the media have, like actual racists and sexists, slipped from that goal, dream, and hope. We have a president who divides people into "good" and "bad", the way Sheriff Airipao does, the way televangelist crusaders and cops and prisoners and online games players do. That way lies an end to democratic acceptance of individual lives and reliance on gross perceptions of "categories".
Once, having campaigned for acceptance of gay students, I was unanimously accepted by the newly-formed student group as its first faculty advisor, only to have a gay woman dean automatically over-ride that and replace me with another professor. You see, I was the wrong "type". I wasn't gay. I was the enemy, the Other. Frank would have defended my selection, I know.
in terms of color, education, sexual orientation, regionalism, etc.
I think Frank mourns the passing of a melting pot image of American life, which was a dream of toleration and empathy. Alas, politicians, preachers, professors, and the media have, like actual racists and sexists, slipped from that goal, dream, and hope. We have a president who divides people into "good" and "bad", the way Sheriff Airipao does, the way televangelist crusaders and cops and prisoners and online games players do. That way lies an end to democratic acceptance of individual lives and reliance on gross perceptions of "categories".
Once, having campaigned for acceptance of gay students, I was unanimously accepted by the newly-formed student group as its first faculty advisor, only to have a gay woman dean automatically over-ride that and replace me with another professor. You see, I was the wrong "type". I wasn't gay. I was the enemy, the Other. Frank would have defended my selection, I know.
Everyone will face death, tragedy and hopefully love and joy in their lives and feel both calm and turmoil during all of it. Color, religion, wealth, poverty none of it makes us immune from pain or numb to joy. Identity politics, like all politics is about power and money.
2
Although in isolation, Frank Burni's comments seem perfectly reasonable, you have to wonder about the timing of a column pleading that white voices be listened to when white supremacy groups are gathering in Virginia to "take America back" for whites. At the very least, this article is tone-deaf, as if pleading for a place for heterosexual concerns in the controversy over transgender bathrooms. The best thing Frank Bruni could do would be to temporarily step aside so that Times' readers could actually hear the voices of women of color at a time when such populations are under assault. Instead, he has chosen to feed into the "white victim" mentality about how aggrieved he feels because some people choose to ignore him simply due to his privileged social position. As expected, the similarly agreed "white victim readers" are eager to join the chorus about their experience when a person of color refused to listen to them simply because they're white--horror of horrors! Meanwhile, crosses are being burned, Muslims are being assaulted, African-Americans are being killed, lots of things to distract us from the legitimate primary concern of the nation--the silencing of white, male voices. As the great white male leader Winston Churchill famously said, "Give me a break!"
6
@Literary Critic
To the point. I was wondering why more comments didn't recognize this. Thank you for bringing it up.
To the point. I was wondering why more comments didn't recognize this. Thank you for bringing it up.
Of course bruni means I'm a white man now shut up until I let you speak.
3
I remember standing on a corner in lower Manhattan in the late 70s with a fellow grad student who was introducing me to her lesbian friends. They were all going to a lesbian bar but I had could not come because I was a male. They knew I was gay but that did not matter. My maleness would make me unwelcome. I understood then why I was told that but it remains an example of unjustified prejudice IMO and the kind of thinking that keeps people in their identity boxes which are counterproductive to societal equality. I totally identify with Frank's self description, we even went to the same university and probably some of the same gay bars. I know I have benefited from white male privilege and I have also been the victim of prejudice. Some of us are luckier than others but everyone has their unique gifts and struggles. No one chooses their pedigree but we can all choose to focus on the things that unite us rather than the things that make us different. It is hard for that not to sound cliche but it really is true.
8
Hear, hear. This business of attacking one's political allies for their racial and gender characteristics has to end. As another old dead white guy (Benj.Franklin) said, we must all hang together or we will hang separately.
Things liberals obsess about.
Good grief.
(Sometimes I wish there was a way to monetize white guilt. I'd make a fortune!)
Good grief.
(Sometimes I wish there was a way to monetize white guilt. I'd make a fortune!)
3
"liberals" are not a monolith.
It's useless to rank oppression. And, it's clear being part of an oppressed group, does not make you unable to be oppressive. Some historians, after all, believe Adolf Hitler was both White and gay.
However, it is useful, both as an exercise, and as a way of life, if one is part of an oppressor class, to listen.
There is an underlying frustration, which leads to anger, which leads voices who are suppressed, to scream loudly, sometimes rudely, for white people, or men, or straight people to shut up.
Tantrum adjacent, at times, the exhortation is a scream wrought of the horror of being unheard, historically, personally, rampantly, effusively when you come up against those who refuse to acknowledge one's oppressive existence.
Life in America can be the worst kind of horror. If you don't scream for survival, so another knows your terror, you die.
The very existence of Whites, of men, of straight people can be so oppressive as to choke away existence. Boot on neck, you want to breathe again. You scream.
The exhortation to shut up is the gasp of a person suffocating. It's why Eric Garner's cry, "I can't breathe!" resonated. He drew his last breath at the hands of a white cop, who would not listen, and did not shut up.
On days my decorum is checked, and my exhorts are oppressive, I, African American and gay, needed to cry out, horrifically, so another would know he was suffocating me. Those days alone do not define me.
I'll hear you another day if you are willing to listen.
However, it is useful, both as an exercise, and as a way of life, if one is part of an oppressor class, to listen.
There is an underlying frustration, which leads to anger, which leads voices who are suppressed, to scream loudly, sometimes rudely, for white people, or men, or straight people to shut up.
Tantrum adjacent, at times, the exhortation is a scream wrought of the horror of being unheard, historically, personally, rampantly, effusively when you come up against those who refuse to acknowledge one's oppressive existence.
Life in America can be the worst kind of horror. If you don't scream for survival, so another knows your terror, you die.
The very existence of Whites, of men, of straight people can be so oppressive as to choke away existence. Boot on neck, you want to breathe again. You scream.
The exhortation to shut up is the gasp of a person suffocating. It's why Eric Garner's cry, "I can't breathe!" resonated. He drew his last breath at the hands of a white cop, who would not listen, and did not shut up.
On days my decorum is checked, and my exhorts are oppressive, I, African American and gay, needed to cry out, horrifically, so another would know he was suffocating me. Those days alone do not define me.
I'll hear you another day if you are willing to listen.
5
If people throughout history had to check their white / gender / __insert other immutable thing here__, the world would be a vastly different place.
It's a stupid, neanderthal road to travel. Surprised it took so long for someone to write this in the NYT. It's today's ray of hope.
It's a stupid, neanderthal road to travel. Surprised it took so long for someone to write this in the NYT. It's today's ray of hope.
1
When liberals say tolerance and diversity they mean that there is no room for anyone who does not share their enlightened views.
I haven't forgotten the cheers Mrs. Clinton received when she labeled millions of American deplorable and irredeemable. Did you condemn her? And if you did was it because what she said was horrible or because she let the cat out of the bag?