If Walker wants help with the environment, I'm sure he has a friend in the EPA who can assist.
One thing's for sure: I ain't buyin' no more Wisconsin cheese!
One thing's for sure: I ain't buyin' no more Wisconsin cheese!
11
Republicans become socialists very quickly when it comes to siting a plant such as this. At $15,000 to $19,000 per job and break even out to 2043, simple math seems to elude politicians. It is possible the plant would not operate that long.
18
Steve jobs was a great negotiator. Foxconn the company jobs chose to build his splendid products has taken his negotiating skills to heart. Foxconn could get concessions in any state. Only in Wisconsin they have Scott walker. A small man who needs to loom large. Especially to his hero mr trumpsky. Like the confederate states of auto manufacturing. Do anything to get that plant built here. Give away the store if necessary. And above all do not pay anywhere near a living wage to those who are employed there. A true house of cards
15
Is this the same Wisconsin that took umbrage because we try to insure our small dairy farmers can survive when large dairy operations reduce their income to poverty levels?
18
Infrastructure help to build the plant should be all the help allowed by law nationwide. The rest I s just a bribe with taxpayers money. Either the plant makes economic sense or not.
14
One wonders how many of these $50,000 / year high tech jobs will go to members of the local community?
14
Sadly, LA is going to have a similar problem with Major Garcetti's idiotic plan to bring the Olympics here. Of course , the difference is Garcetti is an expert at kicking problems down the road....in this case 11 years...so he knows he will be long gone when the people of LA will wish they never heard of the Olympics or Garcetti.
4
Wisconsin would be better off spending this same money on statewide infrastructure projects with a rule to train Wisconsinites and hire Wisconsinites. The investment would attract more businesses and the increase in employment would drive demand that would help the whole economy. If they can spend this much, they don't need Foxconn.
21
What's the point of having regulations if you don't abide by them? If I were running a small to medium sized business in Wisconsin I'd be very angry that I'd have to follow regulations while an international giant can come in and get them suspended. That's blatantly messing with the free market and siding with wealthy special interests over the rest of us.
40
All of these subsidies should be absolutely outlawed. They punish every business and individual taxpayer who does receive them. Worse, they are wasteful either because the recipient would have located there anyway or because they create inefficiency and waste by inducing businesses to locate in sub-optimal locations which become optimal only because of the subsidies. The result is distortion in the allocation of resources and inefficiency in their use. The entire economy suffers except for the recipient of the subsidy.
These unfair and inefficiency creating subsidies are getting larger and larger. Nevada gave away $1.2 billion specially to Tesla, enabled only by a special act of the legislature solely for Tesla's benefit. Now in Wisconsin they are trying to give away $3 billion of taxpayers money.
These unfair and inefficiency creating subsidies are getting larger and larger. Nevada gave away $1.2 billion specially to Tesla, enabled only by a special act of the legislature solely for Tesla's benefit. Now in Wisconsin they are trying to give away $3 billion of taxpayers money.
14
Correction: Toward the beginning of my comment above, I meant to write that the subsidies punish every business and individual taxpayer who does NOT receive them.
2
This governor's sole priority is an ideology-fueled ambition to advance the cause of Scott Walker. Consequently, this formerly democratic state will do his union-busting bidding under the transparent fig leaf of job creation. If that requires the building of an enviromentally toxic gulag of supposedly high paying jobs, selling out Wisconsin taxpayers with giveaways and kickbacks, and tilting the legal playing field with bogus filings before sympathetic right-wing judges, welcome to Taiwan's newest province right here in the midwest. We Minnesotans must now consider what we have to do to secure our eastern border.
10
To resist this makes little sense. People need jobs now not later. What's better is that this is a Taiwanese company spreading its wings and hopefully moving away from Chinese influence.
1
Beware of geeks bearing gifts.
6
Foxconn already welched on a jobs deal in America, this is just welfare for the rich to build robots. Even Chinese workers are being replaced by robots. Taxes and regulations were never the problem.
10
"...blindsided by the way the deal is happening-at lightning speed, with very little input from the public...." Doesn't that statement just say it all. Are we living in a democracy or not???
10
Governor Walker must think the majority of Wisconsinites are dumb country bumpkins if he thinks waving some silly alleged 13,000 jobs paying $50,000 plus benefits in their faces will convince them that Foxconn is a good deal. As the old adage goes, "anything too good to be true is probably not good at all" or something like that. What I find amazing is that Governor Walker didn't seem to mind or baulk when the Manitowoc Company picked up and left Manitowoc to relocate to Pennsylvania (taking 528 jobs with them) because they got a better tax break in Pennsylvania. Walker is willing to literally give away the store, the farm and all of it's natural resources to a foreign company but not make a reasonable concession with a company from a town in his own state. I think that says a lot about his lack of integrity and character and where his real values and agendas lie - the almighty dollar - in his pocket, one way or another. Actually, I think he wants Foxconn in Wisconsin so he can add that claim of "bringing and creating jobs to Wisconsin" when he runs for President.
I hope I am completely incorrect about my misgivings about this Governor, but at least for today, I don't think so. Walker's agenda is not Wisconsin's agenda. He only wants to make himself great, not that state or this country.
13
Scott Walker would sell out all of us in Wisconsin.
The man can't even get our June deadline budget done.
Do an article on his juvenile detention and veteran hospital atrocities. He had them going on in Milwaukee at their county facility when he was exec there.
He's not capable of being a straight shooter. Tried a crooked deal with Gogebic in WI until they backed down.
Wouldn't allow poor Native Americans to have a casino but allows Foxconn.
Did I say con? Corrupt, too.
The man can't even get our June deadline budget done.
Do an article on his juvenile detention and veteran hospital atrocities. He had them going on in Milwaukee at their county facility when he was exec there.
He's not capable of being a straight shooter. Tried a crooked deal with Gogebic in WI until they backed down.
Wouldn't allow poor Native Americans to have a casino but allows Foxconn.
Did I say con? Corrupt, too.
11
Foxconn, the bunch that in China abuses workers, stacks them in dorms at near-starvation wages, will not let them live with their families, had to put suicide nets around the high-rise hells where the workers stay between grueling shifts of labor. That bunch. Now stepping into our land with their deals and their demands. It will profit a few, and it will hurt many, make no mistake. It will start by wrecking the land and taking more than its share of the public good, and then get worse. It's just the kind of thing the oligarchs want, the kind of thing that, under their oligarchs, drove Russia's life expectancy for men down under 55 years of age (now up around 60, if you call that up). They need to be repelled, all their plans, they need to be sent packing before they make a new and brutal robber-baron regime out of our dear land.
7
Get Walker and Ryan out of there.
14
Living in Alabama I can tell you this ONLY benefits the employer. Alabama and Mississippi have been doing this since the 1930's. Look at how well our states have done since then.
First it was Kansas trying to be Alabama and now Wisconsin. It only benefits the rich and the state coffers lose.
First it was Kansas trying to be Alabama and now Wisconsin. It only benefits the rich and the state coffers lose.
13
Why exactly does the company need this handout? Is manufacturing the products impossible without this package of goodies? Under Walker, Wisconsin is supposedly a taxpayer and worker paradise. Wouldn't Foxconn locate there just because Walker has prepared the state for growth? Libertarian economists like Armentano would argue it makes no sense to build the factory in the US if it could be done more efficiently in Asia or elsewhere. Why is Walker ready to starve social services and education and yet hand over billions to a profit-making global corporation? Explain.
20
Foxconn appears to be a self explanatory name. Fine it might produce jobs but the cost is alarming. Scott Walker is a bad joke on the people of Wisconsin. The notion that by subsidising each job to the equivalent of $18 per hour is a sound investment in a state where Walker has a record of screwing the working population seems to expect "the checks in the mail" credulity.
Add to that the proposed product is flat screens for who? Does anyone have a clue of the market to be filled? Silence......? Don't forget the short cuts being proposed.
To say the least all I see is smoke and mirrors and given the employee suicide rate at Foxconn's existing plants I doubt that they are even up to the scabby standards common to American manufacturing.
Add to that the proposed product is flat screens for who? Does anyone have a clue of the market to be filled? Silence......? Don't forget the short cuts being proposed.
To say the least all I see is smoke and mirrors and given the employee suicide rate at Foxconn's existing plants I doubt that they are even up to the scabby standards common to American manufacturing.
12
Republican Governor: Times readers disagree. Switch parties and it's all good.
Would you care to name any Democratic Governors who have agreed to remove all these regulations and not faced opposition?
5
This is an incredible boondoggle. Wisconsin will find -- gasp! -- that just as there are few Americans that want to work the food harvesting and landscaping beats, there are few that want to work the $12 / an hour 12 hour manufacturing shifts. The jobs will go unfiltered. It's a soul killing grind. We're better off without it, and to give up clean water for this is madness.
And by the time it's built the equipment will be obsolete already. Fools.
And by the time it's built the equipment will be obsolete already. Fools.
27
How come such a big investment, which is supposed to last many decades, needs to be approved in a few weeks?
If it is going to take 25 years to recoup the tax credit, then where is the guarantee that the business will survive such a long time?
Why the corporate welfare? They pay very little tax and then try to take it back with more added to it with tax credits? We the People are financing everything in this country. All for one meager wage and out of reach 'benefits' ie healthcare, no sick days and no vacation!
Look 25 years back and see how many tech manufacturing facilities in the US are still in place? Some are gone because of globalization, others have moved because of tax credits in other states or closed because of automation. There are many manufacturing facilities in the EU that move around every 5 or 7 years just because of newly admitted members or cheaper labor here and there. The same has been happening in the US and Asia. There is so much manufacturing that moved from China to Vietnam and now to Cambodia.
Do you believe these 53k wages? I hope this is true, but 53k?
How come this wast manufacturing facility cannot be built in place of the abandoned factories in Wisconsin? And where are the workers going to come from? What will happen to the newly built housing when the factory closes down? There is no perfect scenario, but welfare for multinational corporations and resulting shock and awe do not seem to be the right answer to our ills.
If it is going to take 25 years to recoup the tax credit, then where is the guarantee that the business will survive such a long time?
Why the corporate welfare? They pay very little tax and then try to take it back with more added to it with tax credits? We the People are financing everything in this country. All for one meager wage and out of reach 'benefits' ie healthcare, no sick days and no vacation!
Look 25 years back and see how many tech manufacturing facilities in the US are still in place? Some are gone because of globalization, others have moved because of tax credits in other states or closed because of automation. There are many manufacturing facilities in the EU that move around every 5 or 7 years just because of newly admitted members or cheaper labor here and there. The same has been happening in the US and Asia. There is so much manufacturing that moved from China to Vietnam and now to Cambodia.
Do you believe these 53k wages? I hope this is true, but 53k?
How come this wast manufacturing facility cannot be built in place of the abandoned factories in Wisconsin? And where are the workers going to come from? What will happen to the newly built housing when the factory closes down? There is no perfect scenario, but welfare for multinational corporations and resulting shock and awe do not seem to be the right answer to our ills.
13
The usual "average salary" math trick. Dollars to donuts that there will be the few at the top making much more and the majority of workers making far less than 53k. And how many of those jobs will be automated by 2020? Foxcomm is sure to win on this but the people of Wisconsin? Probably not much.
2
$15-19,000 per job per year, eh? And this factory will presumably be employing people who rant, rail, moan and cry about food stamps, welfare, and disability. They want welfare too - and a whole lot more of it than any poor family gets - but they also demand that we protect their tender feelings and keep their self-delusion that they are "makers not takers" and nothing like the blacks or the "white trash."
So not only do we have to give them a massive welfare handout, we also have to pay extra for a middle man to hand them their welfare in a way that protects their fragile pride.
So not only do we have to give them a massive welfare handout, we also have to pay extra for a middle man to hand them their welfare in a way that protects their fragile pride.
12
Isn't Scott Walker the guy who cut UWisconin's budget by $250 million and then turned around to use state taxpayer's money to build a new stadium for the Bucs?
17
Yup, the same one.
1
How much will Walker and his cronies collect from this deal? I suspect they are the only Wisconsonites who stand to benefit.
9
Wisconsin residents -- indeed the rest of us too -- should be marching toward that state's capitol with pikestaffs to forestall this disaster.
Democrats need to be leafletting bars, lodges, etc. where the hoodwinked convene, showing them the real numbers and how their hard-earned wages will be subsidizing these jobs -- through 2043! -- via taxation, as well as the environmental depradation.
Democrats need to be leafletting bars, lodges, etc. where the hoodwinked convene, showing them the real numbers and how their hard-earned wages will be subsidizing these jobs -- through 2043! -- via taxation, as well as the environmental depradation.
6
And what about the workers who might have been employed by Foxconn, but will not have a job without it?
give $20,000 per year to Wisconsin residents if they hire Wisconsin workers for at least ten years. why give that money to a Chinese business?
14
Since Wisconsin already has a low unemployment rate, many of the workers will likely come from Illinois. I'm sure that works for the Illinois tax payers! And in electronics, nothing built in the next few years will be around 5-10 years later. The plant infrastructure will be out of date in 5-10 years, and the company will move to the next sucker State that essentially (with tax abatements) builds them a plant.
5
If you read closely, you will see that Foxconn is guaranteeing only 3,000 jobs; the 13,000 number is always couched in terms of 'as many as' 13,000.
18
People should see a red flag as soon as the term 'average wage' is used. A math teacher once gave my class this example: Lets say a group of people are sitting in a bar, and their average income is around 60,000. Then Bill Gates walks in, and all of a sudden they're rich, because their average income is now in the high millions. All Foxconn has to do to keep its promise of an 'average wage' of 53K is pay a few percent of the hires a high wage (corporate officers, managers), and then they're free to pay everyone else low to middling. The second red flag is that they're only guaranteeing a third or so of the job number that is being spouted. We all know politicians exaggerate, so I'm guessing that 13,000 jobs is the 'political number'. The reality is likely to be exactly what the company has contracted to do, and nothing more. So how great does the deal really sound, if the state is digging up the town, subverting environmental protections, so it can pay millions of dollars to employ 3,000 people? Well, I guess it does sound like a Trumpian deal, the kind that led to several of his bankruptcies. Seems Walker is learning from the best... the best of the worst.
18
Absolutely right, and all other coverage I've read (contrary to this article) indicates the $53,000 average actually includes benefits and the actual take home salary is dramatically less. On average. Just pay a few guys at the top a couple million and boom- $53,000 average minus benefits.
3
Ya' gotta love a teacher who incorporates barflies into their lesson plan.
2
Was that supposed to be a refutation of the math? Hilarious.
Filling in wet lands, scotching environmental regulations, inflated jobs numbers, economic "pay back" in 20+ years...
What could go wrong?
What could go wrong?
9
13,000 jobs? I assume most of those jobs involve building the factory and the skills to build this type of facility may or may not be WI based. How many PERMANENT JOBS are we discussing?
Remember how Republicans pilloried Obama for "picking winners and losers", how are tax credits to Foxconn different from investment in Solyndra? Dollars of fungible. It's still picking winners and losers.
Remember how Republicans pilloried Obama for "picking winners and losers", how are tax credits to Foxconn different from investment in Solyndra? Dollars of fungible. It's still picking winners and losers.
8
My grandparents must be rolling over in their graves that the state they loved is on its knees begging to give billions of dollars of taxpayer money to a foreign company.
Make Taiwan Great Again??
Make Taiwan Great Again??
8
I would like to understand the environmental costs better, in actual dollars of value lost due to increased pollution.
I clearly see a huge benefit to having a major EMS/CM here. They might be able to start an new product introduction (NPI) line that would help startups here and help Foxconn win the projects that end up going to mass production. That's a huge benefit for our hardware electronics ecosystem here. You can't just look at how long it takes the gov't to recoup the lost tax revenue because that ignores the value of having more tech ecosystem here.
I want to understand the environmental issues. Are we just bending some red-tape rules? Or are we talking about harming our environment in a way that makes our area less desirable?
I clearly see a huge benefit to having a major EMS/CM here. They might be able to start an new product introduction (NPI) line that would help startups here and help Foxconn win the projects that end up going to mass production. That's a huge benefit for our hardware electronics ecosystem here. You can't just look at how long it takes the gov't to recoup the lost tax revenue because that ignores the value of having more tech ecosystem here.
I want to understand the environmental issues. Are we just bending some red-tape rules? Or are we talking about harming our environment in a way that makes our area less desirable?
Spending $3 billion (Wisconsin's taxpayer money) to subsidize Foxconn to make flat TV panels in southeastern Wisconsin? This sounds more like buying jobs than creating jobs. Read this sentence in the article: "The subsidies for the Foxconn plant would equal $15,000 to $19,000 per job annually."
1
Thank you Legislative Fiscal Bureau for exposing one of the most glaring realities to corporate welfare, the taxpayer gets the bill and it rarely is in their favor. When real competitiveness plays out and wins, it is good for the economy. When corporate welfare is engaged and 30% of the salaries of these jobs have to be subsidized by the state (taxpayer), fiscally it doe snot make sense. Take the billions in incentives and invest in the people directly and this would really be the biggest economic project in Wisconsin history.
5
Agree! Wisconsin would do much better to just cut each potential worker a check for the amount they're dreaming of giving away to Fox CON.
3
Remember when Gov. Walker turned down 800 million in money from the Fed's for High speed rail that would have generated 10,000 jobs....because TAXES !
But now he's happy to give billions in Wisconsin taxpayer money for corporate welfare that will produce a handful of jobs ?
It's almost like he lies about the true aim of his policies. It's almost like it's not about jobs and growing the economy for all... but about busting unions ,hurting democrats, making the rich richer, and helping repubs...
http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/6674/wis._labor_greens_unite_to_fi...
But now he's happy to give billions in Wisconsin taxpayer money for corporate welfare that will produce a handful of jobs ?
It's almost like he lies about the true aim of his policies. It's almost like it's not about jobs and growing the economy for all... but about busting unions ,hurting democrats, making the rich richer, and helping repubs...
http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/6674/wis._labor_greens_unite_to_fi...
7
Republican-sponsored plant that subsidizes jobs using taxpayer funds to the tune of tens of thousands per job? Who do they think they are? Democrats?
Foxconn's illustrious history in southern China has led them to install suicide nets to prevent the rash of suicides that is induced by such numbing jobs (google it). Wisconsin does not need to lose its dignity for such environmentally-destructive "jobs". Just look at the name folks - Fox and Conn. Foxes are obviously conning creatures and if that fact was lost on your, they added "conn" at the end just to make sure you picked up that fact. In fact, building a giant Foxconn factory in agrarian Wisconsin is like trying to farm corn in the middle of Silicon Valley.
Let's keep Wisconsin clean and agrarian and not let Foxconn in... like the status quo. We will be glad we did(nt).
Foxconn's illustrious history in southern China has led them to install suicide nets to prevent the rash of suicides that is induced by such numbing jobs (google it). Wisconsin does not need to lose its dignity for such environmentally-destructive "jobs". Just look at the name folks - Fox and Conn. Foxes are obviously conning creatures and if that fact was lost on your, they added "conn" at the end just to make sure you picked up that fact. In fact, building a giant Foxconn factory in agrarian Wisconsin is like trying to farm corn in the middle of Silicon Valley.
Let's keep Wisconsin clean and agrarian and not let Foxconn in... like the status quo. We will be glad we did(nt).
2
Foxcomm has a reputation of promising to build, get approvals then quietly back away when people move on in topic.
No worries, they will weasel out again, Bigly.
No worries, they will weasel out again, Bigly.
3
Washington State a few years back passed a massive tax break for Boeing under the guise of job creation and retention. Since then we have seen thousands of Boeing jobs cut and moved out of state. Foolishly, the legislature did not place any conditions on this tax break. Wisconsin would be wise to not repeat our mistake. Foxconn's offer sounds too good to be true.
30
People need to look at the Foxconn plant in Harrisburg, Pa, that was proposed a couple of years ago with much fanfare. It never happened
Hmmm... why did not Gov. Walker consider the secondary economic development benefits - which are being touted for this project - when he rejected nearly $1 billion in Federal Transportation of the light rail project (which were awarded to other states).
9
Thanks to Winston Smith for providing a link to the light rail rejection: http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/6674/wis._labor_greens_unite_to_fi...
There are many public policy reasons this project may be a bad idea, but that somebody's rural idyll may be ruined is not one of them.
2
As with every deal, the Devil is in the details. If there are 13,000 jobs paying $60+k per year then it is a good deal. If not then it's a pig in a poke. Whatever, Walker signs it better have clawback language in the event that the promises aren't kept.
3
If State subsidies cost $20,000 per job per year, aren't the rest of the state's citizens effectively paying for other people's jobs? They get nothing out of this but a bigger tax bill in a state with already Hugh rates.
1
Reference: Chaquita Bananas in Charlotte (on a smaller scale.) Also, there's been more than half a dozen instances where they announced plans for plants outside of China that were never built.
The statement 'a massive factory with jobs paying at least $53,000 per year, on average,' makes no sense. There can be a minimum wage ('at least'); there can be an average wage.
2
This is a serious error in your reporting and must be corrected.
As an Illinois resident, I'm thrilled that Wisconsin taxpayers are subsidizing a plant that will be located between 30 and zero miles from the Illinois-Wisconsin state line. At least some Illinoisans will be hired, and some of the Wisconsin paychecks will be spent in Illinois.
In fact, if the factory is close to the state line, we could expect half of the workers to be Illinois residents.
At $33,000 in Wisconsin taxpayer funds per year every year subsidizing each Illinois job, the proximity to Iliinois is a big deal.
In fact, if the factory is close to the state line, we could expect half of the workers to be Illinois residents.
At $33,000 in Wisconsin taxpayer funds per year every year subsidizing each Illinois job, the proximity to Iliinois is a big deal.
3
Why are Corporations, foreign or domestic, allowed to play off States against each other to lower their taxes or obtain other benefits? When they do, the cost of government still has to be paid for, and that falls flat and square on the beleagured American Middle Class.
There ought to be a law forbidding these practices.
There ought to be a law forbidding these practices.
6
Paying companies with tax incentives to locate/relocate has been fraught with misinformation, i.e. promises. More times than not the promised jobs do not materialize and the company moves on in later years to greener pastures with additional tax payer financed incentives. There should be a mechanism in place where-in the company earns the tax incentives and rebates and only collects on their attainment. Promises by corporations and by politicians eager to feed their ego and get re-elected should not be believed.
7
Why not have the people who get the $53,000/year jobs + the other businesses/people who supposedly are going to benefit from this deal pay the $15,000 to $19,000 for these jobs until the bill is paid? Include in their bill lots of extra money to deal with and compensate for what's going to happen to the environment.
Has anyone taken a look to see how Foxconn treats their employees and the environment in the other places they have factories?
Has anyone taken a look to see how Foxconn treats their employees and the environment in the other places they have factories?
2
It should be illegal for state and local governments to provide tax breaks and incentives for businesses to locate there. This should be in restraint of interstate commerce, which is regulated by the federal government. The whole system is rife with corruption. Of course, recent Supreme Court decisions have made it impossible to obtain any conviction against a politician for accepting bribes.
2
This is actually very consistent with the GOP and "free market" philosophy of socializing risk and privatizing profit. If other states are any example--KS, OK, TX to name a few we have the dire results in hand of these experiments. We know they fail all but the very few. We need a course change in the coming elections. Time to get up and GOTV.
3
What ever happened to Capitalism and the free market? Trump and the GOP simply want to take government and tax payer dollars and give them to big business (even foreign ones) and have no interest in decreasing our debt. Unlike the way Trump played the bankruptcy system, the U.S. as a country can not.
This is typical of the disastrous policy ideas Trump/GOP leaders are trying to sell to America. The taxpayers of Wisconsin and the greater U.S. are supposed to pony up 30% of the $10 billion dollars to get a factory to come to the U.S.. In addition, the foreign company gets to bypass our regulations to create their behemoth factory. The best estimate is that the state might see a benefit from this factory moving here in close to 30 years. At which point, the company will want more tax breaks or money to stay. Who does this benefit again?
This is typical of the disastrous policy ideas Trump/GOP leaders are trying to sell to America. The taxpayers of Wisconsin and the greater U.S. are supposed to pony up 30% of the $10 billion dollars to get a factory to come to the U.S.. In addition, the foreign company gets to bypass our regulations to create their behemoth factory. The best estimate is that the state might see a benefit from this factory moving here in close to 30 years. At which point, the company will want more tax breaks or money to stay. Who does this benefit again?
3
In agreement with earlier skeptical comments. These 13,000 jobs will probably be like the jobs promised by frackers: a quick, ephemeral boom for construction, then a handful, at best, of relatvely permanent jobs. Pity.
4
“Mr. Walker, a Republican, for its willingness to bend regulations on the environment so that Foxconn can move more quickly on construction.”
FoxConn is a supplier to Apple. Under this deal they are going to ignore the environment. This does not look good for Apple, which has always tried to show their concern for the environment.
FoxConn is a supplier to Apple. Under this deal they are going to ignore the environment. This does not look good for Apple, which has always tried to show their concern for the environment.
1
Two additional things that may raise questions about the benefits of the proposed Foxconn deal for Wisconsin are the state's current unemployment rate and the proposed plan's location to neighboring Illinois.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wisconsin's June 2017 unemployment rate was 3.1% (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wi.htm). The State's Department of Workforce Development states this is the lowest the unemployment rate has been since October 1999 (https://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/newsreleases/2017/unemployment/170720_june....
While the unemployment rate does not measure wage levels and other aspects of labor, the state's low unemployment rate suggests the Foxconn deal is an expensive way of addressing wages, etc.
Moreover, the proximity of the proposed site discussed in this article, Paris, to the Illinois state border suggests that Illinois residents could work at Foxconn without Illinois paying anything for the Foxconn project.
Those who negotiated this deal for Wisconsin may want to reconsider.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wisconsin's June 2017 unemployment rate was 3.1% (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.wi.htm). The State's Department of Workforce Development states this is the lowest the unemployment rate has been since October 1999 (https://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/newsreleases/2017/unemployment/170720_june....
While the unemployment rate does not measure wage levels and other aspects of labor, the state's low unemployment rate suggests the Foxconn deal is an expensive way of addressing wages, etc.
Moreover, the proximity of the proposed site discussed in this article, Paris, to the Illinois state border suggests that Illinois residents could work at Foxconn without Illinois paying anything for the Foxconn project.
Those who negotiated this deal for Wisconsin may want to reconsider.
1
FOXCONJOB was overheard on an open mic saying "never give a sucker an even break". There seems to be nothing the GOP members won't do to make people thinnk they are winning, even if they are giving away the farm. who knew being a cheesehead was difficult.
That they won't make anything from this until 2042 isn't any worse than buying bonds that don't mature uintil then, buit WHAT exactly is the ROI? By then, if donny has his way, there may not be Wisconsin. ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
That they won't make anything from this until 2042 isn't any worse than buying bonds that don't mature uintil then, buit WHAT exactly is the ROI? By then, if donny has his way, there may not be Wisconsin. ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
1
Such filth-creating, suicide-inducing, American taxpayer-subsidized jobs should stay in Asia - we certainly don't need them here in America. They already dominate the manufacturing industry and sell us cheap trash that we consume voraciously - we don't need this pity, consolation prize - taking it wouldn't restore our manufacturing days anyhow.
The only kind of manufacturing jobs the great state of Wisconsin should get are high-paying jobs that are accretive to the state and have no harmful consequences for any voting member of Wisconsin. As for what product could possibly generate these types of "unicorn" jobs without being crush on price by non-American manufacturers? I propose we turn Wisconsin into something akin to Italy or France - making high-margin, location unique items like Ferragamos and Louis Vuittons would surely create competition-immune, sustainable unicorn jobs for Wisconsin. It gets better - Wisconsin already has a product - its fabulous cheese. Instead of making dirty phones that need to be subsidized to be competitive, why not elevate what we already do to the highest levels? Perhaps apply for a Protected Designation of Origin like the EU has and voila - great, secure, stable, high-paying jobs, immune from global competition, no environmental threats. All of the good, none of the bad whatsoever.
The only kind of manufacturing jobs the great state of Wisconsin should get are high-paying jobs that are accretive to the state and have no harmful consequences for any voting member of Wisconsin. As for what product could possibly generate these types of "unicorn" jobs without being crush on price by non-American manufacturers? I propose we turn Wisconsin into something akin to Italy or France - making high-margin, location unique items like Ferragamos and Louis Vuittons would surely create competition-immune, sustainable unicorn jobs for Wisconsin. It gets better - Wisconsin already has a product - its fabulous cheese. Instead of making dirty phones that need to be subsidized to be competitive, why not elevate what we already do to the highest levels? Perhaps apply for a Protected Designation of Origin like the EU has and voila - great, secure, stable, high-paying jobs, immune from global competition, no environmental threats. All of the good, none of the bad whatsoever.
2
As I recall, FoxConn made the same deal with Pennsylvania. Seven years later and still no factory there.
5
If only Obama thought of this instead of Trump. The former President's sole focus was how to dismantle the big bad America. Love it or not, there is always a winner and loser in trade. If you cease to be a winner, then you'll be a loser. As simple as that. I guess "cerebral" Obama was too much of a thinker for us simple folk who just want jobs and a paycheck. When we can't save our families, how can we expect to save the planet?
1
If we can't "save the planet," there won't BE any jobs to save. Actually, the phrase "save the planet" should be banned from everyone's speaking. What we're really talking about is making sure we limit environmental and ecological damage to the planet that we have today so that it can continue to provide all the benefits and sustenance that it gives us. The planet will do just fine on its own until some billions of years from now, it's destroyed by the natural death of the sun. Meanwhile, more and more humans may discover that we have destroyed those parts of the earth that were the most valuable to OUR continued survival.
3
Excellent reporting and analysis on a deeply deceptive proposal. The exemption on environmental regulations, the disregard of science, the secrecy, the hard sell-- all hallmarks of "Divide-andConquer" Walker. There's more here. It stinks. Keep on reporting this important story, Julie Bosman!
40
Scott Walker is a gross politician and human being. Bought and paid for by the Koch Bros. et al. Let's hope the voters of Wisconsin will wake up in 2018, but by the results of the last 2 elections he's won, perhaps they're happy with what they've got.
15
A one word reply: Gerrymandering.
3
Gerrymandering does not affect the vote for governor.
I'm glad Foxconn wasn't looking at Nebraska because I'm sure our governor would have been falling all over himself to give away hard-earned taxpayer dollars for the "privilege." A 25 year time horizon to break even is hardly something to clamor over. Nebraska has past history as a cautionary tale.
In the mid-1980's we passed tax incentive legislation for ConAgra when they threatened to leave Omaha for Tennessee. Over the years it's anyone's guess as to how much in total benefit they were given - it was never required to be disclosed to taxpayers. Among the benefits: tax credits for job creation and capital investment; property tax exemptions; reduced personal income taxes for top executives; elimination of capital gains tax on the sale of company stock.
What's worse is that these incentives were written into law such that they go to not just ConAgra but all businesses that meet certain requirements. Over the years most large employers in Omaha have reaped the benefits. It's estimated that 90% of jobs would have been created without these subsidies. The icing on the cake: ConAgra left Omaha for Chicago a couple years ago.
Be forewarned Wisconsin: write laws exempting large employers from environmental laws at your own peril. They may well move in, rape your land, create very few jobs (13000 was best case scenario) and then leave.
In the mid-1980's we passed tax incentive legislation for ConAgra when they threatened to leave Omaha for Tennessee. Over the years it's anyone's guess as to how much in total benefit they were given - it was never required to be disclosed to taxpayers. Among the benefits: tax credits for job creation and capital investment; property tax exemptions; reduced personal income taxes for top executives; elimination of capital gains tax on the sale of company stock.
What's worse is that these incentives were written into law such that they go to not just ConAgra but all businesses that meet certain requirements. Over the years most large employers in Omaha have reaped the benefits. It's estimated that 90% of jobs would have been created without these subsidies. The icing on the cake: ConAgra left Omaha for Chicago a couple years ago.
Be forewarned Wisconsin: write laws exempting large employers from environmental laws at your own peril. They may well move in, rape your land, create very few jobs (13000 was best case scenario) and then leave.
19
I'm so confused, I thought that republicans hated when the government "picked winners and losers."
If only I could think of an explanation for republicans' stunning change of tune....
If only I could think of an explanation for republicans' stunning change of tune....
20
GOP mantra: Business first, Campaign Contributions second, People's Needs Dead Last.
When did the GOP ever put the people first?
When did the GOP ever put the people first?
1
This proposed plant has one function. To help Walker win a third term.
14
Good comment, and good name. I've never heard of another Ed Blau before. Keep fighting!
1
Another Republican bait and switch project to enrich the rich on the backs of the middle class. The so-called Trump / Pense move that "saved" 1,300 jobs (actual estimates were closer to 700 jobs) cost Indiana tax payers $7 million. If this went according to Trumps plan, the state would have given Carrier $1 million per job for 3 years. The actual result: the $7 million went into automation, and 600 workers are now being laid off. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/05/24/here-is-the-numbe...
16
For all the kool-aid drinkers of "free-market-capitalism", more evidence that it's a complete myth. Let me spell it out for you... tax breaks and subsidies are the opposite of that.
18
Or more accurately, corporate welfare.
2
Will the tax payers be on the hook for any environmental damage. Judging from Governor Walker's desire to rush this through my guess is yes.
15
So, it turns out NYT readers, who are mostly members of the "professional" class really don't want laid off and unemployed blue collar workers in fly over country to find employment, after all. From the comments, it's obvious that NYT readers are gloating, because they believe Foxconn is scamming WI, and there will be very, very few new jobs. There once was a time when Americans rooted for each other and wanted the best for other Americans, even if they were working class, middle western and maybe even white. It's obvious from the comments here that those days are gone.
2
I think you--willfully--are misunderstanding what NYT readers are actually saying.
3
And yet when Blue states provide the exact same type of tax incentives for business to relocate, expand or simply stay (e.g., Illinois) -- crickets from the Left.
Leftie hypocrites are incapable of looking in the mirror.
PS -- Yes, it is corporate welfare. All of it.
Leftie hypocrites are incapable of looking in the mirror.
PS -- Yes, it is corporate welfare. All of it.
1
The manufacture of flat-panel displays, if that is what Foxconn is going to produce here, does not employ "thousands of workers". Samsung and LG in Soth Korea have huge plants with almost total automation. Just a few dozen people on a shift to keep the robots working.
Nor do Samsung and LG make any profit on LCD flat panels. So to compete in this market, Foxconn has to have similar labor costs. Wisconsin is in for a big surprise in this case. No jobs.
Nor do Samsung and LG make any profit on LCD flat panels. So to compete in this market, Foxconn has to have similar labor costs. Wisconsin is in for a big surprise in this case. No jobs.
25
Jobs? At what price? This appears to be more corporate welfare than job creation. Why is it that a distribution of taxpayers' own money directly to taxpayers is called a "handout," while funneling the same taxpayer dollars to politicians' corporate patrons constitutes an "incentive?" Perhaps because it incentivizes corruption?
33
Factory jobs paying "at least $53,000 per year"? "Plus benefits"? Making flat-screen tvs? In rural Wisconsin?
Does anyone believe that?
Does anyone believe that?
46
Read the fine print:). On average, jobs in the plant will pay $53,000. No mention of benefits. That average of course includes those from senior management which skews the average upward.
3
That $53,000* has an asterisk.
It is not "Plus benefits", it includes benefits like health insurance.
Actual pay will be more in line with the 24-34K starting range common to the area with management salaries boosting the numbers in the average considerably.
It is not "Plus benefits", it includes benefits like health insurance.
Actual pay will be more in line with the 24-34K starting range common to the area with management salaries boosting the numbers in the average considerably.
4
This is how Texas does it: buy employers with incentives. Unfortunately, it also bleeds local tax revenue so there is no money for schools that are needed because of the growth and the bribes don't insure a company won't move on once they've gotten their main benefit. Thus, you need to keep bribing them to stay. It is unclear whether that is even a zero-sum game by the time all costs are considered. One thing is clear though, it is not small government or free markets at work.
21
Yep, Oklahoma is falling apart the same way, no kidding--mental health services, child protective services, corrections, schools, all the public good--falling apart. And earthquakes, too, bigger all the time. All to please the corporate and wealth elite around here with never-ceasing tax cuts and subsidies. They have sold us out, and Wisconsin will be sold out, too, and worse. Foxconn? Oh, man. Very grim, very grim indeed.
1
Wisconsin state government paying a subsidy to Foxconn of $19,000 annually for each worker without a break even on its investment occurring until 2043; twenty six years away? That's forever in the electronics industry. Not really fair to all other Wisconsin citizens not working for Foxconn that will be paying for others to work there. Republicans may label this economic development but I see it as a job entitlement program in disguise that is a way for Republicans to buy votes with taxpayer money. So this is the Republican idea of small government in action....
29
And Wisconsin taxpayers are already paying for Scott Walker's arena in Milwaukee so his corporate donors wouldn't have to foot the whole bill themselves.
4
Is it 13,000 jobs or 3,000 jobs? I suspect that the 13,000 number is used to make the tax rebate cost per job look smaller.
10
Perhaps the larger figure counts an estimate jobs created outside the plant to provide materials and services to the plant (parts, food trucks, cafes, ....)? In any case, I would be more surprised that U.S. labor is now inexpensive enough that a plant would use more people and less automation rather than the other way around.
2
3000 announced, Walker seems to think that Gou mentioned possibly up to 13000, maybe, someday, maybe, but probably not. Walker then decided 13000 jobs it is ! MAGA!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/business/foxconn-factory-wisconsin-jo...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/business/foxconn-factory-wisconsin-jo...
1
One might ask, what American Company has been given tax subsidies of 15-19K per employee to open a new plant in the U.S.A. What other companies in Wisconsin are currently being given such magnanimous tax breaks by this Governor? Will taxes have to rise or will draconian State budget cuts be required.
24
So the guys sitting in the bar will soon be sitting for hours on end working with microscopic components. Following Foxconn's business model that Steve Jobs loved so much, they will live in dormitories or close to the factory so they can be roused in the middle of the night when some CEO wants immediate changes. Suicide nets will be part of the architecture. The wetlands will be filled in and other environmental damages will go unreported - just part of Foxconn's business model. The $53,000/year, will it be for a 60, 80 or 120 hour week? Remember Walker Fan Club, a tiger like Foxconn can't and won't change its stripes.
19
The article talks about 13,000 jobs but FoxConn is guaranteeing only 3,000 jobs. At that number the state subsidies of $3 billion will cost taxpayers $33,000 per job each year over the next 30 years, not $15,000 to $19,000 per job.
35
The subsidies for the Foxconn plant would equal $15,000 to $19,000 per job annually.
*******
That's the equivalent of the taxpayers of Wisconsin providing a base minimum wage for each Foxconn employee. And Republicans think that's economic progress?
*******
That's the equivalent of the taxpayers of Wisconsin providing a base minimum wage for each Foxconn employee. And Republicans think that's economic progress?
81
Irreparable environmental damage cannot be outweighed by transitory job promises. Sounds like a car salesman with a customer on the lot, "Got to buy it today!" No Wisconsin, take a second look and a third. Think it through.
46
Of course Walker will go ahead. He won't pay or suffer the consequences. A true right-wing hypocrite!
14
This isn't capitalism or even US-style corporate welfare. The Fox Con project amounts to full-on Chinese-style "state-capitalism". Mind you, the south has been playing this game with auto makers for a decade and Washington is no stranger to providing ongoing massive taxpayer funding to Wall Street through not only public bailouts but more impressively through the fraud of quantitative easing -- i.e. quietly flooding the markets with trillions of extra US dollars. Who is the baddest of the bad apples? Beijing or Washington? It's no surprise Trump is in the middle of it. After all, his family empire was built on bilking the taxpayer, milking publicly funded programs, the particular specialty of his dearly departed dad.
38
Ah, a voice of reason from our good neighbor to the north!
4
A $10,000,000,000 (ten billion) "investment".
For 13,000 jobs.
That's about $1,000,000 (one million) a "job".
Those jobs to pay $53,000 a year.
About $20,000 to be "subsidized".
The state is to throw in $3,000,000,000 (three billion) in "tax credits".
And will Foxconn pay full costs on water, sewer, electricity and roads?
Yes, I understand that all environmental laws will be thrown out, but what about on-going monitoring of ground water, air quality, and disposal of industrial waste?
All of this for a foreign company?
And "Wisconsin taxpayers would not recoup their investment in Foxconn until at least 2043".
Well, isn't that special?
Wisconsin: Be smart.
If you want to shovel your money at a company:
1) Find an American company
2) That builds solar panels
3) and that will partner with Wisconsin schools on how to install and maintain them so your young ones can be employable anywhere in this nation... or even have a job where they can afford to stay home.
For this kind of moola, you can cut a better deal.
Why are "free market" jobs so expensive to tax-payers.....?
For 13,000 jobs.
That's about $1,000,000 (one million) a "job".
Those jobs to pay $53,000 a year.
About $20,000 to be "subsidized".
The state is to throw in $3,000,000,000 (three billion) in "tax credits".
And will Foxconn pay full costs on water, sewer, electricity and roads?
Yes, I understand that all environmental laws will be thrown out, but what about on-going monitoring of ground water, air quality, and disposal of industrial waste?
All of this for a foreign company?
And "Wisconsin taxpayers would not recoup their investment in Foxconn until at least 2043".
Well, isn't that special?
Wisconsin: Be smart.
If you want to shovel your money at a company:
1) Find an American company
2) That builds solar panels
3) and that will partner with Wisconsin schools on how to install and maintain them so your young ones can be employable anywhere in this nation... or even have a job where they can afford to stay home.
For this kind of moola, you can cut a better deal.
Why are "free market" jobs so expensive to tax-payers.....?
142
Foxconn is only committing to 3,000 jobs. It is the government leadership who state 13,000 jobs.
3
But President Trump announced the plans for Foxconn to build in Pennsylvania? Then nothing? Now in Wisconsin? Wisconsin is promising 3 billion dollars but Foxconn is only agreeing to 3,000 jobs. $1,000,000 per promised job? There are much better ways to invest in the people of Wisconsin and that is not taking into consideration the other ill effects of the plant.
21
If this is such a great idea and wonderful plan, why the rush to "move quickly in approving the bill"? I almost spit up my coffee while reading that House Speaker Paul Ryan was "moved to tears when he saw a television report that showed bar patrons applauding news of the plant and stating "that's what it's all about". For all Ryan knows, those bar patrons could have been applauding the fall line up of the Green Bay Packers for crying out loud.
Being a Wisconsinite, I could not agree more with Bill Davis' assessment of "The things that attract businesses to Wisconsin tend to actually be clean air, clean water, skilled work force." That's why people visit and move to Wisconsin in the first place. Bringing in new businesses with the promise of jobs is always a good and welcomed idea, however, shouldn't the process be done the right way? The fact that this "deal is happening at lightning speed, with relatively little input from the public and a promise from Mr. Walker that Foxconn can bypass certain regulations protecting the environment" should be a HUGE red flag to every person in Wisconsin. When will elected officials learn that any time short cuts, especially those effecting the environment, are made, bigger, costlier and destructive measures await everyone in the long run. Brining Foxconn to Wisconsin IS a good idea, it's just the fast pace and throwing caution and common sense to the wind that concerns me.
87
I apologize for my error in stating that Paul Ryan was "moved to tears" when in fact, it was Governor Scott Walker. This time I actually did spit up my coffee.
Walker wants it done while he is governor so he can get his payoff.
1
It's too bad that they're offering Foxconn subsidies. The only reason this company is locating their plant in the U.S. is because the displays they are going to make have U.S. Export restrictions on the technology. If they don't locate in Wisconsin, they'll have to locate somewhere else in the U.S. - if they want to use the technology, that is.
4
The tax payer of WI would be better off just handing the tax money ($231M per employee) to the people of South WI to spend how they deem fit, start a business move to where jobs are, etc. otherwise this is a waste of money.
40
Wisc voters should ask Walker how much the campaign contribution was from Apple for this big nothing. Walker is the only one profiting.
10
The same company that provides nets at its China factories to prevent suicide by overworked and underpaid workers. Just the kind of company one would expect Trump and Walker to gush over.
38
ultimate irony is Scott Walker signing on to a textbook example of socialism. likely he does not understand.
14
Actually this mixture of state and private company financing is fascism.
4
I am sure Walker doesn't understand. He dropped out of college a semester before he was supposed to graduate. He is not a smart man.
5
Foxconn needs to recognize that the US is not China. Even with Wisconsin's giveaways, how long will it be before Foxconn starts overworking and abusing it employees?
Foxconn is wealty. It does not deserve special privileges that might be appropriate for a small startup. Let it work under the same rules governing American businesses.
Foxconn is wealty. It does not deserve special privileges that might be appropriate for a small startup. Let it work under the same rules governing American businesses.
23
The Gopher was not as smart as the Badger (note Carrie Scherpelz comment below.
Northwest Airlines made many promises and received many stat benefits for it maintenance facility in Duluth, MN. The 189,000-square-foot maintenance base opened in 1996 and was closed by Northwest in August 2005.
And the good people of Wisconsin only have to wait until at least 2043 to be repaid. A badger and his money are soon parted by the Walker administration.
Northwest Airlines made many promises and received many stat benefits for it maintenance facility in Duluth, MN. The 189,000-square-foot maintenance base opened in 1996 and was closed by Northwest in August 2005.
And the good people of Wisconsin only have to wait until at least 2043 to be repaid. A badger and his money are soon parted by the Walker administration.
22
Republicans say they believe in small gov't and free markets, but not in the government redistributing wealth. In this case it's big-gov't, a gov't manipulated market, and a redistribution of wealth - general tax funds from the state sent to a foreign company to pay for jobs - many of which won't even go to the people of Wisconsion who paid the taxes. $10billion for 13,000 jobs is >$769,000 per job. No wonder it will take more than a quarter century to break even - if the jobs even last that long - a quarter century is beyond forever in hi-tech.
Trump says he's a master dealmaker. He & Scott walker just got taken to the cleaners by Foxconn (with our tax money of course, not their own).
Trump says he's a master dealmaker. He & Scott walker just got taken to the cleaners by Foxconn (with our tax money of course, not their own).
18
Thinkers in Wisconsin know that whatever is in the good of the state of WI and the citizens of WI, Walker will NOT do.
What is in the interest of his dark money puppeteers and bad for citizens of WI, Walker will DO.
I’m only stating what history has proven true.
Now supreme court, move on with that gerrymandering case so we can vote Walker out in 2020. It can't come soon enough.
What is in the interest of his dark money puppeteers and bad for citizens of WI, Walker will DO.
I’m only stating what history has proven true.
Now supreme court, move on with that gerrymandering case so we can vote Walker out in 2020. It can't come soon enough.
8
Redistricting does not affect statewide offices such as the governorship.
1
The verdict is still out I think, but huge tax subsidies for corporations (and here a foreign one) rarely make sense. Just go back and look at that Carrier deal which basically paid Carrier to modernize its plants to convert to robotics.
Tax breaks and bail outs make more sense for corporations that are already here and have a robust supply chain in America (i.e. the automotive industry) whether the investment at the top provides payoffs down the supply chain.
Tax breaks and bail outs make more sense for corporations that are already here and have a robust supply chain in America (i.e. the automotive industry) whether the investment at the top provides payoffs down the supply chain.
10
The voters of Wisconsin put Scott Walker in office, twice, and if they want their tax dollars to fund the Foxxconn plant that's their business. It sounds like plenty of people are happy about it. They'll find out soon enough if Walker and Foxxconn lied to them.
3
A lot of us DIDN'T vote for Scott Walker, and in fact organized to try to recall him. Not very many people are happy about the deal, and I hope it dies in the senate and house. Don't lump us all together, it's ridiculous and makes you sound uninformed.
5
Ms. Pea, it's sad but true. Walker unfortunately is all dark money and this "Conn" will likely pass the gerrymandered legislature. WI will get what they asked for, just like the American people. It's another sad day for WI and USA
4
Diana in Madison--gerrymandering matters for every office across the state and the country. That's why the valiant effort of those who organized to try to remove Walker did not succeed. The political infrastructure in all those contorted districts exists to thwart the will of many voters and consolidate the GOTV with the largest possible number of supporters in each district. Scott Walker has an organization that elects the greatest number of legislators possible to support his agenda and as many have observed here, he's not a bright man. It comes from big donors working the national
chessboard.
My husband is from Wisconsin and we have family there. We have followed WI politics with varying degrees of dispair since Walker and Ryan came into power, and we see what their policies have done to our adult children and grandchildren. We knock on doors, and do all we can to promote the change you would like to see but given the political structure it's not easy.
We've got similar troubles in IL with Bruce Rauner in the governor's spot but we are beginning to work our way out of the grief. We all have a lot of work to do in the upcoming elections! I'll come and knock on doors in Racine and you come and knock doors in Schaumburg. We are seeing the fruits of socializing risk and privatizing profit all around us. It is time for REAL representatives who care about the people and places they represent. Iron Stash for Congress!
chessboard.
My husband is from Wisconsin and we have family there. We have followed WI politics with varying degrees of dispair since Walker and Ryan came into power, and we see what their policies have done to our adult children and grandchildren. We knock on doors, and do all we can to promote the change you would like to see but given the political structure it's not easy.
We've got similar troubles in IL with Bruce Rauner in the governor's spot but we are beginning to work our way out of the grief. We all have a lot of work to do in the upcoming elections! I'll come and knock on doors in Racine and you come and knock doors in Schaumburg. We are seeing the fruits of socializing risk and privatizing profit all around us. It is time for REAL representatives who care about the people and places they represent. Iron Stash for Congress!
1
Wisconsin, the Alabama of the North.
Now there's a state in which I will never set foot.
Now there's a state in which I will never set foot.
8
I would question if Foxcom can actually deliver "family supporting" wages averaging "at least $53,000" for what they manufacture. I'd also ask if the factory comes with nets......
10
I meant "Foxconn" ("fox"? "con"? Hmmm....)
2
The residents in the area might want to do an internet search for Foxconn/Apple/pollution/labor violations. They may also want to make sure that in due course they have a sure and ready source of bottled water, and that they teach their children not to swim in nearby rivers and streams.
13
One would think there are enough abandoned or underutilized industrial sites that one would not have to make a new site and bypass environmental regulations.
13
Exactly!
Wonder how many abandoned factories there are in Detroit? I know there are some around here in southwestern Pennsylvania. There may be some in already industrialized sections of Wisconsin, too.
Wonder how many abandoned factories there are in Detroit? I know there are some around here in southwestern Pennsylvania. There may be some in already industrialized sections of Wisconsin, too.
Capitalism is broken. Fundamentally broken.
It was globalization that broke it, along with plenty of help from technology.
This is where it got us: having to buy our jobs back, a few thousand at a time, while negotiating the terms of the deal from a position of extreme weakness.
This is not going to end well.
It was globalization that broke it, along with plenty of help from technology.
This is where it got us: having to buy our jobs back, a few thousand at a time, while negotiating the terms of the deal from a position of extreme weakness.
This is not going to end well.
11
The article supports the idea that the left needs to do a better job of understanding and speaking to working peoples' concerns. Why would some people care about environmental issues if you are not sure you're going to survive to next payday? Of course some working poor are environmentally short sighted. I would be too if I was constantly thinking about survival.
Populist Republicans have mastered the art of duping working people to think they are concerned about jobs for working poor. They've duped people to think that local business success will solve joblessness and will make america great again.
If progressives hope to win back support from the working poor that support Trump, they need to come up with a Bernie-esqe message about 'soaking the rich,' or a message that directly addresses the anxieties of the working poor.
Populist Republicans have mastered the art of duping working people to think they are concerned about jobs for working poor. They've duped people to think that local business success will solve joblessness and will make america great again.
If progressives hope to win back support from the working poor that support Trump, they need to come up with a Bernie-esqe message about 'soaking the rich,' or a message that directly addresses the anxieties of the working poor.
8
“When the last living thing
Has died on account of us,
How poetical it would be
If Earth could say,
In a voice floating up
Perhaps
From the floor
Of the Grand Canyon,
"It is done."
People did not like it here.”
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
Has died on account of us,
How poetical it would be
If Earth could say,
In a voice floating up
Perhaps
From the floor
Of the Grand Canyon,
"It is done."
People did not like it here.”
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
7
Yes, 13,000 jobs - for robots.
5
I know. Do a search for Foxcom and robots: they are moving full speed ahead to replace humans with robots in their Asian plants.
3
Who's going to pay for the water and sewage systems needed for this plant and the population growth that goes with it? More police and fire? Road and bridge construction to handle the traffic? Repairs to existing infrastructure that will be overloaded and wear out more quickly? New schools for the new kids?
This is an old scam. Many small towns cant handle the financial impact, especially when 'tax breaks' negotiated by the company and the state leave out the local financial impact.
I am generally pro-development in rural communities, but the finances and negative impact on way of life can be a burden if only outsiders do the planning.
This is an old scam. Many small towns cant handle the financial impact, especially when 'tax breaks' negotiated by the company and the state leave out the local financial impact.
I am generally pro-development in rural communities, but the finances and negative impact on way of life can be a burden if only outsiders do the planning.
10
2043, that's plenty of time to build the plant, operate for 20 years and then declared that business conditions have changed and that they need to relocate - to Africa.
9
This coming from a man who chose to cut 300 million dollars from the higher education budget of the University of Wisconsin, which has proven to be a consistent job producing pipeline. Ask all the alums around the Madison area, all the biomedical startups—Epic software being one of them. They didn't have to outsource their job creation - they grew them at the source, with the help of a highly educated population.
So the plan is to outsource our job creation, but keep the workers (read: voters) close and grateful for a living wage, all while bringing our level of environmental destruction into line with China's? Another typical Republic hypocritical boondoggle.
So the plan is to outsource our job creation, but keep the workers (read: voters) close and grateful for a living wage, all while bringing our level of environmental destruction into line with China's? Another typical Republic hypocritical boondoggle.
15
Ah yes, give them enough money and freedom to do what they want and they'll come-The Production Warehouse of Dreams.
I'm sad this production warehouse is being built in America under these terms and conditions, but happy its being built in the current Republican state of Wisconsin, a state proudly representing Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, and Donald Trump's great negotiating skills. This my friends is what politicians do: a positive ROI in 2043-26 (for the record, in business, this ROI would never occur in a successful firm) years from now, all Wisconsin state taxpayers subsiding the wages of those hired, no environmental consideration for current or future Wisconsin citizens, no guarantees on employment levels or duration, no site cleanup plans should the warehouse leave, etc. Yes, this is truly the government at work. I just can't believe all this winning we're realizing under Trump and the Republicans, "It's Winning at a level the world has never seen before!", unless of course you're a third world country.
I'm sad this production warehouse is being built in America under these terms and conditions, but happy its being built in the current Republican state of Wisconsin, a state proudly representing Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, and Donald Trump's great negotiating skills. This my friends is what politicians do: a positive ROI in 2043-26 (for the record, in business, this ROI would never occur in a successful firm) years from now, all Wisconsin state taxpayers subsiding the wages of those hired, no environmental consideration for current or future Wisconsin citizens, no guarantees on employment levels or duration, no site cleanup plans should the warehouse leave, etc. Yes, this is truly the government at work. I just can't believe all this winning we're realizing under Trump and the Republicans, "It's Winning at a level the world has never seen before!", unless of course you're a third world country.
6
And what guarantee does the state of Wisconsin have that Foxconn will operate this factory until at least 2043, when the tax credits the company will receive balance out? This project is corporate welfare of the worst sort.
11
As a resident of SE Wisconsin, I am glad that some legislators are taking a closer look at what could be a huge giveaway that fleeces the taxpayers for years, to say nothing of potentially irreversible damage to the environment of which Wisconsinites used to be so proud. Thousands of jobs paying $50K per year - I'll believe that when I see it. If this is supposed to be such a good deal, why not take time to make sure that is true.
71
Is Gov Walker and Trump willing to forgo workers protections as well as the environment? One needs only look at recent Foxconn history to understand what Walker and Trump are applauding:
https://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-foxconns-ip...
https://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-foxconns-ip...
15
Governor Scott Walker said he was moved to tears when he saw a local television report that showed bar patrons applauding news of the Foxconn plant.
“That’s what it’s all about,” he said.
What actually moved Walker to tears was the prospect of giving $3 Billion of taxpayer funds to a beautiful corporate welfare queen like Foxconn while flushing the environment down the drain.
Maybe Walker wasn't crying after all...perhaps he just got splashed in the face by the violent flush of his right-wing Republican toilet.
“That’s what it’s all about,” he said.
What actually moved Walker to tears was the prospect of giving $3 Billion of taxpayer funds to a beautiful corporate welfare queen like Foxconn while flushing the environment down the drain.
Maybe Walker wasn't crying after all...perhaps he just got splashed in the face by the violent flush of his right-wing Republican toilet.
103
So, it is bad for the environment and bad financially. Sounds like a boondoggle.
"Under the legislative package being considered in Madison, Foxconn would be exempt from regulations that protect state wetlands and it would be permitted to forego a detailed environmental analysis that is usually required for large projects."
"Wisconsin taxpayers would not recoup their investment in Foxconn until at least 2043"
"Under the legislative package being considered in Madison, Foxconn would be exempt from regulations that protect state wetlands and it would be permitted to forego a detailed environmental analysis that is usually required for large projects."
"Wisconsin taxpayers would not recoup their investment in Foxconn until at least 2043"
37
Why not just create jobs ...training jobs or startup subsidies pr whatever that go right to the people of Wisconsin? Perhaps Walker should wipe the drool off his face and think about the people of Wisconsin first and not a foreign corporate billionaire.
52
It always strikes me when these deals are made the idea of "laissez faire" capitalism is delusional. Taxpayer money consistently used as "incentive" for these companies. When these deals are made the rhetoric is "jobs, jobs jobs." When companies threaten to abandon the communities they have facilties in, he line is "we're not in business to employ people." When are people (and Trump voters specifically) going to stop falling for this nonsense?
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I hope Wisconsin, the Badger state, heeds my updated fable...
A Fox one day visited the home of the Badgers, a beautiful place of clean waters and green hills.
“Have you heard the wonderful news?” cried the Fox in an excited manner. “ I will give you a $10 billion factory so thousands of you can work for me!”
The Badgers’ mouths watered.
Fox helpfully explained the deal. “All you have to do is give me $3 billion in $200 million cash payments,” he said.
"Wait,” said the puzzled Badgers. "Why do you come to us with your paws out?"
The Fox replied craftily, “Because if you don’t give me the money, I will build my factory somewhere else.”
The Badgers raised their eyebrows.
“There’s more to my deal. You can build sewer lines, streets and other infrastructure for my factory,” said the Fox grandly, “and you can borrow $250 million from the Badger Bank to build a highway for me.”
The Badgers began to inch away from the Fox.
“Hold on,” smiled the Fox. “I will discharge dredged materials in your wetlands, change the course of your streams, build artificial bodies of water that connect with your natural waterways and build on your riverbed, too!”
“Your offer certainly takes our breath away,” said the Badgers. “But no thanks.”
They did not wait to hear more. Off they started on a run.
“Fools! Why do you run from a deal like this?” grumbled the Fox as he walked away scornfully to try his luck elsewhere.
The Moral: "Badgers are not easily tricked."
A Fox one day visited the home of the Badgers, a beautiful place of clean waters and green hills.
“Have you heard the wonderful news?” cried the Fox in an excited manner. “ I will give you a $10 billion factory so thousands of you can work for me!”
The Badgers’ mouths watered.
Fox helpfully explained the deal. “All you have to do is give me $3 billion in $200 million cash payments,” he said.
"Wait,” said the puzzled Badgers. "Why do you come to us with your paws out?"
The Fox replied craftily, “Because if you don’t give me the money, I will build my factory somewhere else.”
The Badgers raised their eyebrows.
“There’s more to my deal. You can build sewer lines, streets and other infrastructure for my factory,” said the Fox grandly, “and you can borrow $250 million from the Badger Bank to build a highway for me.”
The Badgers began to inch away from the Fox.
“Hold on,” smiled the Fox. “I will discharge dredged materials in your wetlands, change the course of your streams, build artificial bodies of water that connect with your natural waterways and build on your riverbed, too!”
“Your offer certainly takes our breath away,” said the Badgers. “But no thanks.”
They did not wait to hear more. Off they started on a run.
“Fools! Why do you run from a deal like this?” grumbled the Fox as he walked away scornfully to try his luck elsewhere.
The Moral: "Badgers are not easily tricked."
48
Let's hope you are correct !
6
Sad to say you were "tricked" with Gov. Scott and Paul Ryan. But I'm with you, Wisconsin, and hope for your release from the Republican poison in your state.
And please don't fall for subsidizing "Big box" companies of any kind. It happens all over California and Nevada.
And please don't fall for subsidizing "Big box" companies of any kind. It happens all over California and Nevada.
1
"When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you can’t eat money." -Alanis Obomsawin
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Wisconsinites will pay "$15,000 to $19,000 per job annually" in extra taxes! I guess that's a small price to pay for good paying jobs.
9
The plan certainly deserves scrutiny. WI is short on jobs but even more short on skilled labor. So it will be interesting to see if this will really meet the needs of WI or the governor's agenda. He has been committed primarily to tax relief (which he has delivered) and jobs (which he has not).
WI has a low college graduation rate and an even lower rate of retaining skilled labor. In my opinion we need more vocational training here but we'll see what Scott does. He eliminated my community health RN job so that's one in the minus column!
WI has a low college graduation rate and an even lower rate of retaining skilled labor. In my opinion we need more vocational training here but we'll see what Scott does. He eliminated my community health RN job so that's one in the minus column!
6
they can surely learn from the factory in Harrisburg,Pa.! oops. kit was never built. will this one?
I would hope by now that the good people of Wisconsin see through this politician and his complete disdain for the people of our state. His only interest is personal, and no one in their right mind could say that they trust him or his cohorts. I have lived in WI for 70 years, and just like the election of our current President, I ask myself how in God's name did this ignoramus get control of this wonderful and beautiful state? Our citizens need to get back in touch with their proud and progressive heritage...the likes of Senators Nelson and Proxmire stand out in my mind.
63
The corporate welfare queen of America, Gov.Walker.
Harkening back to the limo liberal welfare queens of NYC circa 1950-1960s.
Harkening back to the limo liberal welfare queens of NYC circa 1950-1960s.
10
More faux economic growth from Walker & Co. Why does this story use the 13,000 jobs figure? If this caper comes about it will result in far fewer jobs, i.e., 3,000-4,000.
22
The jobs pay $53,000 "on average" and the place is going to employ 13,000 people?
Just how much are they going to have to pay the upper brass to bring the numbers up from what they're going to be paying the line workers to make an "average" of $53,000.
I agree with Carl Davis who pointed out that this is not consistent with the GOP love for "small government" or for government just getting out of the way of the free market and letting the forces of competition work their magic.
What other American born and bred company can compete with this Taiwanese supplier who made their money in the first place by undercutting American labor costs and forcing American companies to take their work abroad.
Now the government is inviting them here and giving them huge benefits and tax subsidies not available to the American manufacturers who struggled and improvised to keep their doors open - now, once again, not able to compete with foreign manufacturers.
If Trump and this government keep bringing us jobs, maybe all our American companies can close up, and all of us can work for foreign companies that killed us one time, and now send their profits back home.
Just how much are they going to have to pay the upper brass to bring the numbers up from what they're going to be paying the line workers to make an "average" of $53,000.
I agree with Carl Davis who pointed out that this is not consistent with the GOP love for "small government" or for government just getting out of the way of the free market and letting the forces of competition work their magic.
What other American born and bred company can compete with this Taiwanese supplier who made their money in the first place by undercutting American labor costs and forcing American companies to take their work abroad.
Now the government is inviting them here and giving them huge benefits and tax subsidies not available to the American manufacturers who struggled and improvised to keep their doors open - now, once again, not able to compete with foreign manufacturers.
If Trump and this government keep bringing us jobs, maybe all our American companies can close up, and all of us can work for foreign companies that killed us one time, and now send their profits back home.
98
Always entertaining when the NYT ventures into a non-coastal state, as if it were some kind of terra incognita. Madison was mentioned as if no one had heard of it (main campus of the University of Wisconsin--a famous liberal bastion) and that yes, Wisconsin does merit an official capital. Then Paris, Wisconsin, "a tranquil rural community in the southeastern corner of the state". Not mentioned is that Paris is part of the Milwaukee-Racine-Kenosha metro--one of the most heavily industrialized places in the USA. That context would help readers frame the whole story. As written, there is an implied incongruity that Paris, Wisconsin was chosen for the factory site. It isn't--the region has had factories for 150 years: Harley-Davidson, J.I. Case, American Motors, and many others.
4
Really? Is it only jaded New Yorkers who might not know that Madison is the main campus of the University of Wisconsin? Really? Or might it be that adding a bit of information about a city helps provide people with some context? Paris may be "part of the Milwaukee-Racine-Kenosha metro," but it has only 1,473 people living in its 36.5 square miles and google maps doesn't seem to show any big factory buildings in the immediate area of Paris; it seems to be mostly farmland.
1
I don't live in Wisconsin but we all share the environment. Job creation is important but I would be suspicious of Scott Walker's intentions. He doesn't put people first.
35
This has the makings of a disaster, both economically and environmentally. Such is the almost-inevitable outcome when a hugh project is rammed through at high speed with "never mind the details" attached. This is particularly vexsome when the beneficiary of Wisconsin's largess is foreign-owned: there's no direct or simple path to address grievances---and they will come.
It is also of mention that the manufacture of flat-plane displays (now becoming curved-plane) is not an enviornmentally-friendly process, and is, further, subject to the pressures of rapid technological innovation. There can be no guarantee that the tax benefits accrued to Foxconn will ever be recovered if (as is likely) technology and the market move on.
It is also of mention that the manufacture of flat-plane displays (now becoming curved-plane) is not an enviornmentally-friendly process, and is, further, subject to the pressures of rapid technological innovation. There can be no guarantee that the tax benefits accrued to Foxconn will ever be recovered if (as is likely) technology and the market move on.
32
Questions Emerge Over What Wisconsin Must Give for Foxconn Plant - Bosman
The creation of 13,000 high paying jobs with the construction of a high tech electronics plant is a Win for the state of Wisconsin and it's governor. Wisconsin residents need to contact their local state representatives and demand that they support this economic opportunity, or, another state (or Canada) will be happy to claim this long term economic prize. It appears that the state's democrat party, which opposes anything the republican governor proposes, and wealthy gentrified rural land owners in the affected areas are behind the effort to undermine the Foxconn deal. Just another example of the Clintonian liberal elitism which has transformed the democrat party from the champion of the working classes to the advocate of the rich and connected, imho.
The creation of 13,000 high paying jobs with the construction of a high tech electronics plant is a Win for the state of Wisconsin and it's governor. Wisconsin residents need to contact their local state representatives and demand that they support this economic opportunity, or, another state (or Canada) will be happy to claim this long term economic prize. It appears that the state's democrat party, which opposes anything the republican governor proposes, and wealthy gentrified rural land owners in the affected areas are behind the effort to undermine the Foxconn deal. Just another example of the Clintonian liberal elitism which has transformed the democrat party from the champion of the working classes to the advocate of the rich and connected, imho.
2
You could not be more wrong. If this is such a "win" for Wisconsin Gov. Walker should have no issue with the normal process for approving such a venture and not be offering such high monetary incentives that WI can ill afford to give while foregoing standard environmental procedures. This "deal" is being pushed through the legislature at rapid speed. How is this good for WI? This is our state and we should have a say in what happens here with our tax dollars. What should also be looked at is the history of Foxconn. That should be enough to give anyone pause!
It should also be mentioned that Gov. Walker is up for reelection next year a fact he pointed out in an interview regarding the Foxconn deal.
Coincidence? I think not.
(And for the record I have voted Republican my entire life until last year. I am not a "Clintonian liberal").
It should also be mentioned that Gov. Walker is up for reelection next year a fact he pointed out in an interview regarding the Foxconn deal.
Coincidence? I think not.
(And for the record I have voted Republican my entire life until last year. I am not a "Clintonian liberal").
69
Even some Republicans are asking if the real up-front cost is worth the supposed benefits.
14
It's the Democratic Party, not the democrat party- I always wonder why man of those who dislike the Democratic Party like using the wrong name as some kind of odd insult. And you need to look no further than President Trumps Republican Cabinet if you want to find advocates of the rich and connected!
13
Foxconn is the poster child for worker abuse and yet WALKER is willing to engineer a $1billion package paid for in large part by taxpayers to bring them to Wisconsin. Scott Walker is another politician who sees workers as less than human. When is Wisconsin going to wake up? Now. I hope so.
22
One hopes the people of Wisconsin are on to Scott Walker by now. He doesn't care about jobs, he cares about filling his own coffers with payoffs he can use in his next presidential run. Hence the very business-friendly tax breaks. Nevermind the environment and anything else the people of his state actually need. He's a politician completely bought by the Kochs and their friends.
129
If we are OK with bribing a company to put up a factory at a very high cost per employee, why can't we come to the conclusion that we could do it by re-imagining healthcare and payroll taxation?
No market is free. They all work within artificial frameworks. The framework could be over-rewarding capital, or over-rewarding labor, or anything in between. But it is a framework, and it can be altered with capitalism continuing to thrive.
Make America great again guys. Look at the big picture, not just at one factory.