Given all thats been found in the wells fargo skeleton closet, id never do business with them
SO in other words, as with all the big bankers and corporations, they have had an oversight (been caught with their hands in the cookie jar) and been forced to refund what monies that can be proven they owe their customers who they were ripping off. Just like Bank of America got caught, just like AT&T got caught, all claimed it was merely an oversight when they knew in advance that any penalty or fine would be inconsequential to the actual amount of profit they received, the money they would make off that money illicitly gained, and the interests garnered by investing that money while free of disclosure of the fact that they had stolen it because customers had not yet caught on yet.
They also failed to explain that if it were not for investigations already in play for other "oversights" by their company/corporation they would have never probably been found out in this latest con game.
Too big to fail, and the laws protect them from suffering worthy fines costing them the actual money from profits due to their illegal actions. We have two statues of justice, one for the commoner and one for the money laden entities that enjoy the privilege of reaping rich rewards off the populace of our nation.
There is no reason at all why Wells Fargo now should not have their licenses pulled, be order to never enter into financial business again, have their company stripped from their grasps, and be sold to their lower wage earning class employees as a COOP.
They also failed to explain that if it were not for investigations already in play for other "oversights" by their company/corporation they would have never probably been found out in this latest con game.
Too big to fail, and the laws protect them from suffering worthy fines costing them the actual money from profits due to their illegal actions. We have two statues of justice, one for the commoner and one for the money laden entities that enjoy the privilege of reaping rich rewards off the populace of our nation.
There is no reason at all why Wells Fargo now should not have their licenses pulled, be order to never enter into financial business again, have their company stripped from their grasps, and be sold to their lower wage earning class employees as a COOP.
We've been banking with Wells Fargo since a colleague recommended a mortgage banker there when we were looking to buy a new home in 2011. Despite the challenging mortgage market at the time, we had few issues going through the mortgage process with Wells and have had no issues with them in the subsequent 6 years.
We are in the process of buying a new home, and have had not one issue in the process. In fact -- perhaps in an effort to keep clients right now -- people seem to be falling over themselves to ensure that things go smoothly.
Do I double (and triple) check everything we get from them? Sure -- but I do that with all of our financial dealings. When we get a letter (or three) and a phone call from someone claiming to be working on behalf of our auto lender asking us to verify our insurance information -- I call the lender first (to make sure it's legit) and then I answer the letter. I look every month at the statement for my car loan and if there was a new charge, I'd be calling asking about it right away, not waiting months until my car was on the verge of being repossessed.
When I bought my first house, I had private mortgage insurance. As soon as I reached the point where it wasn't necessary, I called the mortgage company and KEPT CONTACTING THEM until they stopped charging me for PMI.
Would more regulation help? Maybe, but so would more informed consumers. Don't we have some obligation to understand our when we borrow money?
We are in the process of buying a new home, and have had not one issue in the process. In fact -- perhaps in an effort to keep clients right now -- people seem to be falling over themselves to ensure that things go smoothly.
Do I double (and triple) check everything we get from them? Sure -- but I do that with all of our financial dealings. When we get a letter (or three) and a phone call from someone claiming to be working on behalf of our auto lender asking us to verify our insurance information -- I call the lender first (to make sure it's legit) and then I answer the letter. I look every month at the statement for my car loan and if there was a new charge, I'd be calling asking about it right away, not waiting months until my car was on the verge of being repossessed.
When I bought my first house, I had private mortgage insurance. As soon as I reached the point where it wasn't necessary, I called the mortgage company and KEPT CONTACTING THEM until they stopped charging me for PMI.
Would more regulation help? Maybe, but so would more informed consumers. Don't we have some obligation to understand our when we borrow money?
2
Send Pochohontas back to the reservation!
1
Why would anyone bank with Wells Fargo?
When I lived in Smithfield, Utah I banked with Wells Fargo - just down the street. They were very good then. I used them as a place to put deposits and not to take out loans. I am fortunate in that I can buy stuff without taking out a loan, now that I'm old.
What a pity that these problems occurred.
What a pity that these problems occurred.
2
We don't need more regulations on banks, right? I mean they always do the right thing based on sound free market principles, right? I mean if they did anything wrong, the market would put them out of business, right? Right? Right?
3
This is not a bank. It is a criminal conspiracy. Bank officers should be prosecuted until RICO statutes.
6
This poster child for bank regulation continues to assume it can have it both ways; in fact in multiple ways. And why not with so many powerful friends in Congress who continue whining about overregulation stifling business growth? What, a bank assuming risk? Outrageous! Let the insurers take on the risk, after all they hold the cards containing the actuarial mathematics. Oh, never mind, let's just stick it to the suckers who have to finance their cars. Don't forget to make the financing details so difficult to understand that CPAs have to squint at them. Too big to fail and too dumb or greedy, or lazy to succeed.
2
Wells Fargo's corporate culture is demonstrably rotten. It's recent history is dismal. Wells hit the jackpot in 2008 when it was among the first banks to receive bailout funds, receiving the biggest single amount awarded: $25 billion tax dollars. No gratitude, no reform.
Since then Wells has produced yet another outrage every few years. When does it stop? Where are the backbones in the Department of Justice and regulatory agencies?
Unchecked serial corruption is exhausting faith in the American Dream - the belief that lifelong steady employment might lead to home ownership, perhaps a measure of prosperity and basic retirement security. But the endless news of obscenely excessive corporate executive pay and unpunished financial markets malfeasance further discourages people who might otherwise be resigned to a modest lot in life. That pervasive despair has led to what we call "self-medication"- the abuse of opioids in particular, along with excessive drinking, tobacco and drug use, and compulsive over-eating.
Wells Fargo is a poster child for corporate capitalism's increasingly predatory nature and its truly Orwellian deceptive advertising and practices. The insatiable greed of major shareholders and financial market manipulators is the primary driver of this phenomenon. This absolutely must be mitigated through practical regulation, or we face ever-increasing social misery that will lead to unrest and upheaval that even the wealthiest will not be able to escape.
Since then Wells has produced yet another outrage every few years. When does it stop? Where are the backbones in the Department of Justice and regulatory agencies?
Unchecked serial corruption is exhausting faith in the American Dream - the belief that lifelong steady employment might lead to home ownership, perhaps a measure of prosperity and basic retirement security. But the endless news of obscenely excessive corporate executive pay and unpunished financial markets malfeasance further discourages people who might otherwise be resigned to a modest lot in life. That pervasive despair has led to what we call "self-medication"- the abuse of opioids in particular, along with excessive drinking, tobacco and drug use, and compulsive over-eating.
Wells Fargo is a poster child for corporate capitalism's increasingly predatory nature and its truly Orwellian deceptive advertising and practices. The insatiable greed of major shareholders and financial market manipulators is the primary driver of this phenomenon. This absolutely must be mitigated through practical regulation, or we face ever-increasing social misery that will lead to unrest and upheaval that even the wealthiest will not be able to escape.
1
Opioids cost money. Do users borrow for it? I suspect so. Banks don't have the right to ask what the borrowing is for, or do they?
1
“To regain the trust we have lost, we must continue to be transparent with all our stakeholders and go beyond what has been asked of us by our regulators by reviewing all of our operations — leaving no stone unturned — so we can be confident we have done all that we can do to build a better, stronger Wells Fargo.” One way you might restore trust in us customers quickly is to divest your investments away from fossil fuels and go green!
4
My 'favorite' was the congressional hearing with the (then) CEO of Wells Fargo. He kept repeating 'we take full responsibility', as if that alone was going to do the trick and get them off the hook. He was honestly baffled at why that wasn't working.
3
Seems like it is to the point that the entire board and upper management should resign and the company put in receivership for reorganization. There is no way the board did not know all this was happening. If they say they did not we can assume that they are either lying or are utterly incompetent.
1
We moved our checking and savings accounts, investment accounts and mortgage out of Wells Fargo last year and transferred it all to a credit union. Everyone: move out your money from WF, and tell them why. Regulatory agencies: shut these crooks down.
2
Criminal Defendants should adopt the Wells Fargo Defense.
Ooopsss.....I lacked adequate personal controls and oversight. Next time I promise I will rob people with a pen instead of a gun.
Do the senior bank officers who did this and who got huge bonuses get to take the bonuses with them when they go to prison?
Guess what? We only put poor people and minorities in prison.
Prison reform will start when we start putting a better class of criminals in prison
Ooopsss.....I lacked adequate personal controls and oversight. Next time I promise I will rob people with a pen instead of a gun.
Do the senior bank officers who did this and who got huge bonuses get to take the bonuses with them when they go to prison?
Guess what? We only put poor people and minorities in prison.
Prison reform will start when we start putting a better class of criminals in prison
2
"Some rob you with a six gun and some with a fountain pen." Woody Guthrie
White collar crime pays. Very well indeed.
3
my aunt at 94 has dementia. she also has money with wells fargo. we do what we can here at the house. we have seen no bad business with her accounts, but this scandal is scary. she has her retirement automatically deposited so we leave it as it is. Wells Fargo has many questions they need to answer. But as for my aunt they have not taken advantage of her yet.
This is one area in which the Chinese government has the right idea - death sentences for corporate corruption.
Based on the number of actions Wells Fargo has taken to ripoff customers, it is time to put this bank out of business
And yet the industry and the banks continue to lobby for more deregulation, less lawsuits from customers, and exhort us to "trust" them. I think that answer to what is happening is not to trust them. They are showing themselves to be nothing more than con artists and scammers who defraud the public as much as they can within the current regulations. We need to dismantle the too big to fail banks, the huge mortgage service companies, and put a much stronger leash on the financial industry in general.
3
If corporations are people, shouldn't someone sue them as a person? I should like to see that case go to court.
4
Will shareholders learn that there is no such thing as a little corruption at a bank or corporation? Once some is uncovered, there will be more.
2
Wells Fargo's stock price is up about 35% in the past 5 years, with a dividend of about 2.95%;
https://www.nytimes.com/topic/company/wells-fargo-company
In other words, you can make money off of Wells Fargo. Yet, if you possess even a modicum of personal substance, integrity and self-respect, you might probably try other avenues of "wealth management". Because investing in Wells Fargo is probably one step above investing in the Mafia...or maybe just a lateral investment move.
https://www.nytimes.com/topic/company/wells-fargo-company
In other words, you can make money off of Wells Fargo. Yet, if you possess even a modicum of personal substance, integrity and self-respect, you might probably try other avenues of "wealth management". Because investing in Wells Fargo is probably one step above investing in the Mafia...or maybe just a lateral investment move.
I am sure that there are more scams going on that have yet to been discovered. I have my home mortgage with them (not by choice, sold to them by a broker), and was looking to refinance.
After I had gotten a conditional approval, I was told that all that was needed was an appraisal, and I needed to go through "their" appraiser, which was $450. After I paid the fee and had the appraisal done, the Wells Fargo agent call me and proceeds to tell me how the money was to be dispersed. They wanted me to pay down my son's co-signed school loans. That is not what I wanted to do. The would not go forth with the refinance unless I followed their directives.
I did not go through with the refinance. If I was told of those conditions prior to the appraisal, I would have refused the offer before I was out $450.
I wonder how many other people were victims of this smarmy operation.
After I had gotten a conditional approval, I was told that all that was needed was an appraisal, and I needed to go through "their" appraiser, which was $450. After I paid the fee and had the appraisal done, the Wells Fargo agent call me and proceeds to tell me how the money was to be dispersed. They wanted me to pay down my son's co-signed school loans. That is not what I wanted to do. The would not go forth with the refinance unless I followed their directives.
I did not go through with the refinance. If I was told of those conditions prior to the appraisal, I would have refused the offer before I was out $450.
I wonder how many other people were victims of this smarmy operation.
7
Mike -- had you disclosed that your co-signed the loans when seeking the conditional approval? Had you over-estimated the value of the home you were looking to refinance, which led to the requirement for additional debt to be paid off before the refi could be approved?
If you were going to loan someone tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars that is secured by a property, wouldn't you expect to be able to inspect that property to determine its value? That's what the purpose of the appraisal is, after all -- an inspection to ensure that the value of the property is in-line with what they expect.
Maybe the problem is that people don't understand the process and don't bother to learn ...
If you were going to loan someone tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars that is secured by a property, wouldn't you expect to be able to inspect that property to determine its value? That's what the purpose of the appraisal is, after all -- an inspection to ensure that the value of the property is in-line with what they expect.
Maybe the problem is that people don't understand the process and don't bother to learn ...
3
er, did anyone note that the appraisal process is perennially rotten, even with the arms length selection of an appraiser?
1
Wells Fargo is a criminal organization through and through. We sought a mortgage from WF a few years ago. Our mortgage broker actually doctored our closing statements reflecting the lower rate he lied about for months (he never locked it and suggested we ignore the disclosure statements that were sent "in error"). We were sandbagged at closing with a higher rate. None of the higher ups cared so we had to close with a deposit at stake. People there need to be imprisoned..
12
When are people going to go to jail for what is clearly criminal behavior?
16
Sure seems like it long over due to hit Wells Fargo and its executives with the RICO statues.
8
And Republicans think we don't need a Consumer Protection Bureau!
Good luck dealing with these thieves by yourself.
Good luck dealing with these thieves by yourself.
12
At some point, there needs to be a way to give a company the death sentence.
Wells Fargo, VW, and Goldman Sachs would be my first three picks.
Wells Fargo, VW, and Goldman Sachs would be my first three picks.
4
How does it happen that this bank is still in business? They have defrauded millions of Americans and every week some new scheme is uncovered. Shut them down! Lock someone up!
6
I question the sanity of people who continue to do business with Wells Fargo.
2
A lot of this would stop if executives found liable were sent to prison, and not a "camp prison". Send them to Riker's Island, even a few weeks will do it.
10
Like Arthur Andersen, the big five accounting firm shuttered after abetting Enron, Wells Fargo deserves to be banished from consumer banking.
4
WF likes using the expression "make customers whole". It would be good to know what that means in real terms. For instance, when they blacklisted whistleblowers and made them unemployable for 5-plus years do they think that offering them their old job back "makes them whole"? I suspect they do.
3
Wells Fargo lets their vendors manage the insurance process. All Wells Fargo wants is the revenue from the programs in the form of commissions, reinsurance deals and the vendor doing all the work at no charge to the bank. They do this with auto and home insurance and falsely place thousnads of policies on borrowers who have their own insurance. Their vendors do a poor job of checking for other insurance due to the fact the policies generate a tremendous float for the insurance company since the refunds, if ever made, take years to process!! All the big banks do this in some form, Wells is just the worst one of the bunch!!!
3
In "Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission", we were lectured by the US Supreme Court on, among other things, the strange legal fact that corporations are people, too.
Wells Fargo is a prime example of why that reasoning is nothing more than neurotic rationalizing by a bunch of overpriced American lawyers. Unlike the corporeal citizens of this country, the corporate person known as "Wells Fargo & Company" will never go to jail.
"Liberty and Justice for All"...no so much, after all.
Wells Fargo is a prime example of why that reasoning is nothing more than neurotic rationalizing by a bunch of overpriced American lawyers. Unlike the corporeal citizens of this country, the corporate person known as "Wells Fargo & Company" will never go to jail.
"Liberty and Justice for All"...no so much, after all.
11
It corporations are people, they are amoral psychopaths.
1
Why any state, city, county, municipality or individual continues to do business with this criminal enterprise is simply beyond me.
7
I don't understand how the lack of internal controls, pretty obvious in this case, gets past the internal and external auditors. The external auditors are supposed to test all internal controls before they can sign off on a company's financials.
At a higher level though, this reveals a company without a moral compass. IMO, Senator Warren usually overreacts in these situations, but not with Wells. Ultimate responsibility for risk management lies with the CEO and the Board. She is right to call for their ouster.
At a higher level though, this reveals a company without a moral compass. IMO, Senator Warren usually overreacts in these situations, but not with Wells. Ultimate responsibility for risk management lies with the CEO and the Board. She is right to call for their ouster.
14
External auditors get paid a lot of money to sign off on their "opinion" that the financial statements are in compliance Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. But, let's not forget that Arthur Anderson Accountants signed off on the Enron financial statements. But they were later exonerated by the U. S. Supreme Court, I believe. Now, the U. S. Supreme Court has exonerated the former governor of Virginia for personally profiting from his position as governor.
There's another article in today's NYTimes that shows that the U. S. Supreme Court is not so concerned with the less famous and the less rich:"Defendants Kept in the Dark About Evidence, Until It’s Too Late" which reads:
Prosecutors are supposed to turn over evidence that is favorable to the accused — called Brady material after a landmark 1963 Supreme Court decision — regardless of other discovery rules. But the Supreme Court never set deadlines, and lower courts have split over whether Brady material must be turned over before a plea.
It pays big time to be among the privileged few.
There's another article in today's NYTimes that shows that the U. S. Supreme Court is not so concerned with the less famous and the less rich:"Defendants Kept in the Dark About Evidence, Until It’s Too Late" which reads:
Prosecutors are supposed to turn over evidence that is favorable to the accused — called Brady material after a landmark 1963 Supreme Court decision — regardless of other discovery rules. But the Supreme Court never set deadlines, and lower courts have split over whether Brady material must be turned over before a plea.
It pays big time to be among the privileged few.
2
Please wake me up when a jail-worthy indictment is issued for an individual. Until then, nothing has changes, or will change.
5
Are you listening yet, Warren Buffett?
9
Buffett is a good man and brilliant investor.
I'm so glad I don't have to deal with them anymore.
This isn't Wells Fargo's first rodeo, they have been caught with their hands in the till before. The only questions I have is why are they still in business and why would anyone deal with them? I guess PT Barnum was right.
18
How many transgressions does this fraudulent institution have to perpetrate to be fined out of existence?
23
Wells Fargo is the worst. a corporate culture of arrogance, greed, and theft. Why don't regulatory authorities move against them and throw the top executives in jail?
24
Real jail - as in Riker's Island.
1
Really Wells Fargo, really??? What is going on with the people people who decide to implement these kind of actions, AND, are other banks doing this as well? Time for a serious financial spaniking, one they won't soon forget.
5
Why is no one being held accountable for this criminal enterprise? Do only the little guys get punished for breaking the law and harming others?
16
Ask Eric Holder. Never mind, that's right, he's not the AG anymore. He represents the banks now.
Seems he always did.
Seems he always did.
2
Why isn't Wells Fargo being prosecuted under the RICO law?
25
If Wells Fargo is to survive, let alone have any chance at thriving, it will have to win back its customers and the market's trust with a top-to-bottom housecleaning -- starting with a long era of effective receivership. But the shareholders will have to force this course, because this administration will not do a thing.
9
Don't know why people still bank with Wells Fargo. Back in the 1990s, my husband deposited a credit card payment for his business in the ATM in downtown Sacramento. He recognized almost immediately that he had deposited it to the wrong account, and went into the bank to straighten it out. It took him months for the bank to correct his error. Bankers said he needed to deal with WF's credit card arm. The credit card people said he had to deal with bankers. They went round and round until finally, a banker stepped up and agreed to take care of it. Within minutes the transaction was completed. Unbelievable. We immediately took our business to a credit union.
11
I had the same type of problem with Bank of America in 1981. I changed to a credit union at that time and have been thrilled with my service.
2
It is clear that the Fed is feckless. The states should revoke Wells Fargo's banking charter in their states. The various officers should be investigated for theft and fraud. If found guilty they should be sentenced to long prison terms. Reform of Wells Fargo is not possible, they are rotten to the core. The bank needs to be shut down.
17
Banks do not change their stripes regardless of how many times they are "punished" by insignificant fines. During the 2008-present housing crisis, a troubled homeowner calls the bank and is directed to a person who is the contact for a week -- then another contact is assigned and everything starts over. Threatening calls, lost paperwork -- the bank tactics run the gamut. The only way to cure this is to conduct perp walks of bank executives and send them to prison; fines are just not going to work -- they are the cost of doing dirty business.
17
I know when the Feds baled out the big banks after the economic meltdown in 2008, "too big to fail" became the catchphrase of that crisis. And another equally appropriate catchphrase could be applied to Wells Fargo, namely, "too big to jail." So why hasn't the Justice Department brought charges against some of these bank executives in the latest scandal rather than financially slap them on the hands? The fines are a small percentage of the profits that Wells Fargo has made off of these fraudulent practices. But start throwing some of these CEOs in jail and watch how quickly they will change their shady business practices. I mean, enough is enough already. Start prosecuting executives.
15
Seems no one in the government is going to attack a potential future employer.
2
You're absolutely right. Wells and companies like Wells pay a pittance in fines, more than paid for through profits from the fraud they commit on customers.
And by jail time for executives, I'm thinking Riker's Island (or the fictional Oz), not a camp in the Virginia hills with water skiing and fishing.
And by jail time for executives, I'm thinking Riker's Island (or the fictional Oz), not a camp in the Virginia hills with water skiing and fishing.
1
This bank seems to be the most insidious of all banks. Why doesn't the federal government step in and close this institution riddled with fraud?
14
Not defending deceptive or illegal practices but, gap coverage shields the car buyer from having to make up the difference between the car value and the loan balance. Seeing as the article references repossessed cars, it would seem the buyers were in a segment not in the best position to absorb a another financial hit.
Being an informed buyer is the best defense. I think it is pretty common for auto policies (for new cars anyhow) to cover the replacement cost for the first year. Mine does. You can also shop for gap insurance if you want it.
Being an informed buyer is the best defense. I think it is pretty common for auto policies (for new cars anyhow) to cover the replacement cost for the first year. Mine does. You can also shop for gap insurance if you want it.
4
Whatever segment the buyers were in, it's likely that they budgeted for the payments they had, and shouldn't be held to account for NOT budgeting for a bill they were not due. Whether they were informed buyers or not is irrelevant to this situation; the bills they received were erroneous.
1
If the bills they were receiving were erroneous, why didn't they call to question them? Why did they allow the situation to continue to the point that their cars were repossessed? If you are in a situation where all you can budget for are the payments you have, and you get a bill showing you owe more, wouldn't you try to find out why and KEEP pursuing it until it was fixed?
FWIW, the issue with GAP insurance has nothing to do with getting a higher bill. It actually involves getting money BACK when a loan is paid off early. You pay one price at the beginning of the car loan or lease, based on how long the loan will run, and then get premium returned to you if you pay the loan off early.
My guess is that at least some of the issues with GAP coverage relate to people trading in financed cars (or doing an early return of a leased car), and the dealership that acquired the traded/returned car not following up on the return of the GAP premium when they paid off the loan or lease. Well, that and people not realizing that they were due the return.
FWIW, the issue with GAP insurance has nothing to do with getting a higher bill. It actually involves getting money BACK when a loan is paid off early. You pay one price at the beginning of the car loan or lease, based on how long the loan will run, and then get premium returned to you if you pay the loan off early.
My guess is that at least some of the issues with GAP coverage relate to people trading in financed cars (or doing an early return of a leased car), and the dealership that acquired the traded/returned car not following up on the return of the GAP premium when they paid off the loan or lease. Well, that and people not realizing that they were due the return.
1
So many borrowers and people in general pay little attention to thorough checks on many things, including banks. My Utah Wells Fargo was o.k. I just kept a deposit and didn't borrow any money.
This activity will only stop when those in decision making roles are heavily fined and jailed.
35
Orange jumpsuits and manacles, please. Case in point for not just maintaining oversight but adding the teeth of enforcement and prosecution. That's a People's Court worth watching.
17
When will all of the Wells Fargo executives, along with every board member, be charged personally for the crimes they have collectively committed? Is congress ready to defend the American taxpayers or will they continue to be the bigger part of this corporate fraud problem and avoid any charges whatsoever?
33
My thoughts exactly. After all of these crimes have been committed. Anyone going to jail? If it was an average joe like you and I, we'd been already there with pin stripes on our clothes!
If any of the corporate execs commit a crime, are they untouchable?
If any of the corporate execs commit a crime, are they untouchable?
Wells Fargo has proven again and again to be thieves in banker's clothing...
Who is regulating this business?
Who is regulating this business?
27
I would be highly offended, insulted, with that comment if I was a thief by profession.
2
No one is regulating this business. How many bankers did Eric Holder pursue? His solution to stop the Mexican drug cartel violence was to give them more weapons. His boss's solution for fraudulent banks was to give them more money. And you wonder why the banks continue to commit fraud.?
1
If Trump has his way, there will be NO ONE regulating this business. Elizabeth Warren and the Consumer Protection Agency that Trump is trying to destroy have consistently been the only voices consumers have against these abuses.
1