The priests at the local Catholic Churchs preached that their parishioners had to vote for trump. It was their duty as Catholics.
31
There is no conservative or liberal Catholic. There is just Catholic. And you can't be more Catholic than the Pope. If the Pope says, 'knock it off!' and you are Catholic, you knock it off. You don't disagree with the Pope. Unless you want to join another religion.
142
What would Jesus do? About banning refugees, taking away healthcare and cutting taxes on the wealthy? The Pope is being true to the real teachings.
159
A lot of moderate Catholics are not happy that the conservatives answered any criticism of Trump by sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "la la la, I can't hear you, abortion, la la la."
It's important but doesn't give anyone a pass on everything else.
It's important but doesn't give anyone a pass on everything else.
40
Pope Francis is the best thing to have happened to the Catholic Church in centuries, and "sidelining conservative leaders" is exactly what they need. One more time, with gusto, What would Jesus do? The Church is, after all, supposed to bring us Jesus' message, and when did we ever hear him say, "Be cruel" to anyone, as both Conservative Catholic leaders and Evanglicals want to do. Don't be happy, don't love whom you wish, don't let people have health care, don't live through childbirth. I believe He said, "Love one another." . Not merely, "love whom we say you can."
123
"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Christ included all, even the sinners, especially the sinners. Pope Francis gets it.
94
As a born into a Catholic family who attended Catholic Elementary schools and a Catholic University in the late 70's -80's, I have never understood how Newt was allowed in.
Let's make it clear Catholics are not bible thumping, Bible study evangelical's. You go to Mass and the Priest follows a script with 4 possible variations for the week. If you want the fake saving storefront version, go down the street.
We don't believe in the Death penalty! We believe in taking care of the least of our brother.
Let's make it clear Catholics are not bible thumping, Bible study evangelical's. You go to Mass and the Priest follows a script with 4 possible variations for the week. If you want the fake saving storefront version, go down the street.
We don't believe in the Death penalty! We believe in taking care of the least of our brother.
75
Kudos to Pope Francis- please help our great nation to become decent again. The so called orthodox Catholics are in cahoots with the extremists in the name of religion. As described in the commentary, there is no difference between them and the jihadists. The basic catholic teaching comes from loving and serving the people. The hatred created by the power loving conservative catholic leaders are destroying the basic foundation of our great nation. The lust for power made them blind and they are taking advantage of religion to promote their own agenda. That is not Catholicism. Shame on the so called leaders with no heart for the people they serve.
66
So this Pope prefers another schism and his rejected, passe, 1970's liberation theology over faithful preaching, teaching and adherence to the Gospels, traditions and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Jesus and all of those African and Asian Bishop's are wrong too I guess. The Vatican used to be home to great art now intellectual and spiritual barbed wire and sand bags seem to be the fashion.
11
Wow, that was spot on, the majority of the republican party actions are full of hate and they are anti-American with their policies/actions. Not really sure if they care about America except what they can loot and give the top 1%. Just saying.
36
As a progressive, practicing Catholic, I'm so relieved to see this opinion shared. I know too many Catholics who have confused their faith with a political party. Christ would not be a Republican. He wouldn't be a Democrat either. Catholics need to learn more about their faith, their saints and what it really means to follow their conscience.
55
I just noticed in the 2015 photograph of Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller of Germany, the way Gerhard is clasping his two hands differently than the Cardinals standing around him. Everyone around him has of their hands in a pious position.
I experimented squeezing my left hand with all five fingers of the right hand as the left hand rests on top of the right hand just as the photograph shows Gerhard holding his hands. It gave me a sense of power and self satisfaction. I also tried to see how it feels to hold your hands in the pious prayer position. It felt different, a more open feeling acknowledging the existence of others.
Sometimes a picture has more information than a million words. Cardinal Müller is broadcasting with clasping hands that he could not possibly serve the church well, as a doctrinal watchdog of the church of Jesus Christ, the God of Love.
I experimented squeezing my left hand with all five fingers of the right hand as the left hand rests on top of the right hand just as the photograph shows Gerhard holding his hands. It gave me a sense of power and self satisfaction. I also tried to see how it feels to hold your hands in the pious prayer position. It felt different, a more open feeling acknowledging the existence of others.
Sometimes a picture has more information than a million words. Cardinal Müller is broadcasting with clasping hands that he could not possibly serve the church well, as a doctrinal watchdog of the church of Jesus Christ, the God of Love.
23
When I was a Catholic high school girl we studied the bible as literature. We were taught science, including evolution, subject to the scientific method. As Catholics, we were socially liberal.
But it's been a slippery slope to protestantism and then to evangelicalism since we dropped the Latin mass.
I might still be a practicing Roman Catholic if various priests didn't give sermons crossing the line into politics I had to walk out on.
Mazel Tov to Pope Francis.
But it's been a slippery slope to protestantism and then to evangelicalism since we dropped the Latin mass.
I might still be a practicing Roman Catholic if various priests didn't give sermons crossing the line into politics I had to walk out on.
Mazel Tov to Pope Francis.
45
Guess I was asleep. I thought the only theocracy advocate in the Administration was Pence. Now Bannon shows more of his his true, sinister colors. He's even more of the Devil personified than I thought.
Kudos to Pope Francis and his crew of progressives. The 2nd reformation may be in progress.
Kudos to Pope Francis and his crew of progressives. The 2nd reformation may be in progress.
44
As a practicing Catholic, I adhere to a strict separation of church and state on all issues. I've written to the Archdiocese of Detroit, to no avail and without acknowledgement, that I do not wish to hear political advice coming from the pulpit any longer. Getting in line with the goals of this administration is against my "Imitation of Christ" principles to help mankind regardless of their stature or position in society.
41
As a devout life-long Catholic, I wrote our local bishop several years ago saying that I could no longer financially support the Catholic Church in the United States. My reason: the Church had been taken over by right-wing zealots who believed that their political sentiments were the teachings of the Church. It was not hard for me to see that the manner in which they were acting was contrary to not only the teaching of Jesus, but also the entire substance of his life.
Pope Francis is a return to believing and following what Jesus taught and did himself.
Pope Francis is a return to believing and following what Jesus taught and did himself.
73
It's such a blessing to have Francis for a Pope at a time when we have to endure Trump as president of the United States. The moral clarity and courage of this Pope is deeply moving. And I couldn't agree more on his effort to separate Catholicism from a deeply politicized American evangelicalism. Catholicism, even with all its recent problems, is traditionally firmly on the side of the poor and the oppressed; on the other hand, American evangelicalism had always been more like a political movement - a watered down version of white supremacy! I just love this Pope, and I am not even Catholic!
56
Pope Francis is a truly inspiring leader for the Catholic Church. He is a pious, courageous man who knows how to take action to help others while also making symbolic points that reverberate out like gentle ripples in a pond.
I attended with my wife and daughter, the outdoor mass celebrated by Pope Francis in Philadelphia and was greatly moved by the adoration and admiration by the thousands of people there. The proof of his worldwide appeal was clearly shown by the total number of people there but also by the number of non-catholics in attendance. They were drawn by the simplicity, love and leadership he shows us all. I say, Love to Pope Francis and love to all.
I attended with my wife and daughter, the outdoor mass celebrated by Pope Francis in Philadelphia and was greatly moved by the adoration and admiration by the thousands of people there. The proof of his worldwide appeal was clearly shown by the total number of people there but also by the number of non-catholics in attendance. They were drawn by the simplicity, love and leadership he shows us all. I say, Love to Pope Francis and love to all.
31
One of the most depressing things going on in America today is the re-interpretation of the First Amendment into something the Founding Fathers would not recognize.
First was the notion that the First Amendment applies to corporations, and corporate profit-seeking behavior such as buying elections is considered free speech and cannot be regulated by Congress. We have Antonin Scalia to thank for that.
The second, which is just as terrifying, is redefining "religious freedom" to mean the right of a church and its followers to disobey the law of the land. Not nearly enough attention is being paid to the implications of this. This perversion of the First Amendment would have stopped the Civil Rights movement in its tracks, for example.
Assuming the Roberts Court goes along with these radical ideas, the Catholic Church and evangelical megachurches will be able to use their enormous power to dominate civic affairs, the separation of church and state will be obliterated, and large swaths of Ameican will effectively become a Christian theocracy.
First was the notion that the First Amendment applies to corporations, and corporate profit-seeking behavior such as buying elections is considered free speech and cannot be regulated by Congress. We have Antonin Scalia to thank for that.
The second, which is just as terrifying, is redefining "religious freedom" to mean the right of a church and its followers to disobey the law of the land. Not nearly enough attention is being paid to the implications of this. This perversion of the First Amendment would have stopped the Civil Rights movement in its tracks, for example.
Assuming the Roberts Court goes along with these radical ideas, the Catholic Church and evangelical megachurches will be able to use their enormous power to dominate civic affairs, the separation of church and state will be obliterated, and large swaths of Ameican will effectively become a Christian theocracy.
28
The Pope is on the money. I have personally seen this deplorable partnership from friends, family, and even with a so-called ordained Catholic priest. Disgusting. They have abandoned all virtue in exchange for bottom-of-the-barrel viciousful vice, revealing their true character.
I have no need for these types in my sphere.
I have no need for these types in my sphere.
81
Most of the comments here reveal the blinkered mindset of your typical New York Times reader.
While criticizing the orthodox Catholic view as a threat to the separation between religion and politics they are blind to their own ideological blend of socialism, climate change pseudo science, open borders, anti-nationalism to the point of a pathology and identity politics mixed with the noxious brew of so-called progressive Christianity or just plain outright skepticism.
I'd go as far as to wager a lot of trolls in the service of the intelligence community have lent a helping hand to significantly bump up the number of left leaning comments.
Nothing to see here except the normal baa, bark and barf.
While criticizing the orthodox Catholic view as a threat to the separation between religion and politics they are blind to their own ideological blend of socialism, climate change pseudo science, open borders, anti-nationalism to the point of a pathology and identity politics mixed with the noxious brew of so-called progressive Christianity or just plain outright skepticism.
I'd go as far as to wager a lot of trolls in the service of the intelligence community have lent a helping hand to significantly bump up the number of left leaning comments.
Nothing to see here except the normal baa, bark and barf.
10
Interesting and informative article. It shed light on the New York Times resident Catholic Conservative Ross Douthat's recent column.
Ross is one of the infallibles, the converts who fancy themselves holier than the Pontiff, while in my view they inhabit a swamp of immorality. They are squawking now that the good Pope is draining their swamp and they are left to wither like helpless slithering serpents that lost their gilded habitat.
Ross is one of the infallibles, the converts who fancy themselves holier than the Pontiff, while in my view they inhabit a swamp of immorality. They are squawking now that the good Pope is draining their swamp and they are left to wither like helpless slithering serpents that lost their gilded habitat.
60
I asked this question. Why do evangelical ministers and conservative Catholic priests preach intolerance. Of course the easy answer is because the Bible teaches intolerance. Go to this web site - http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html - that lists 700 examples of Biblical intolerance.
Back in the times of Jesus and Moses life was very cruel, desperate, and short. The written word of the Bible reflects those times. But the world has evolved dramatically. And we have gone through the Renaissance, the Age of Enlightenment, Paine’s Age of Reason, the Reformation, etc, etc. Times change, needs change. But evangelical ministers and conservative Catholic priests see no evolution; they preach the intolerance of 2000 years ago.
Biblical inerrancy, Biblical infallibility, and Biblical literalism are interesting concepts but they are anti intellectual, they defy human growth, they ignore the evolution of man. Catholic priests who teach intolerance are not christian. Is it hate or just ignorance?
The great theologians have moved on. Dietrich Bonhoeffer - and many others - believe God is love (Dietrich, a German, was hanged by the Nazis because he believed one should actively plot for the removal of the evil - and intolerant - Nazi regime). Paul Tillich believed God is the depth and integrity of concern. To put in my own 2 cents, I believe God is community, the bonding of human beings. Whatever, the general consensus of theologians is God is good.
Back in the times of Jesus and Moses life was very cruel, desperate, and short. The written word of the Bible reflects those times. But the world has evolved dramatically. And we have gone through the Renaissance, the Age of Enlightenment, Paine’s Age of Reason, the Reformation, etc, etc. Times change, needs change. But evangelical ministers and conservative Catholic priests see no evolution; they preach the intolerance of 2000 years ago.
Biblical inerrancy, Biblical infallibility, and Biblical literalism are interesting concepts but they are anti intellectual, they defy human growth, they ignore the evolution of man. Catholic priests who teach intolerance are not christian. Is it hate or just ignorance?
The great theologians have moved on. Dietrich Bonhoeffer - and many others - believe God is love (Dietrich, a German, was hanged by the Nazis because he believed one should actively plot for the removal of the evil - and intolerant - Nazi regime). Paul Tillich believed God is the depth and integrity of concern. To put in my own 2 cents, I believe God is community, the bonding of human beings. Whatever, the general consensus of theologians is God is good.
41
For some time I've said that the alliance of conservative Protestants and conservative Catholics is an "unholy" alliance and the evangelicals will dump the Catholics ("the Pope is the Anti-Christ") as soon as they achieve their theocracy. Heaven help us.
19
Don't Steve Bannon and Cardinal Muller look alike in these pics? And they look evil; sorry, can't help it - they just do.... Creepy. The look is pure hatred; makes you want to take a 'Silkwood shower' after seeing them (like the scrubbing that Karen Silkwood had to endure after being exposed to radiation at Kerr-McGee). I pray for Pope Francis every day and I'm not Catholic - I just love the Pope - he is a beautiful light of God's love.
50
I pray for Papa Franciscus every day too. He is so overflowing with goodness and kindness. I cannot go on each day without him I don't think.
12
Anyone addressing social reform must realise that the single greatest social evil of the last 5,000 years is: RELIGION. Go on, look at all the social ills with roots in religion, religious lies, religious hypocrisy, religious wars, and religious power.
Religion is mostly a fig leaf to hide greed, prejudice, hatred and abuse.
Religion is mostly a fig leaf to hide greed, prejudice, hatred and abuse.
27
Conservative religions, yes, progressives,not so much.
6
Wow! I'm not feeling so foolish now for thinking there is a Catholic conspiracy in the White House! With Catholics surrounding Trump it seems obvious to me: Sean Hannity, Sean Spicer, Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Laura Ingram, O’Reilly, Paul Ryan, Newt Gingrich, Donald Carcieri, Rudolph Giuliani, Chris Christie, Corey Lewandowski, etc. etc.
27
Articles are just talk. How about defrocking them or excommunicating them? That would be a strong message.
17
For better or worse, the RC clergy do not treat each other that way. They have a soft spot in their hearts for fallen colleagues.
"My" molester, Fr. Edward Powers, was not defrocked until he was in his eighties, when, one might suspect his faculties had diminished to the vanishing point.
"My" molester, Fr. Edward Powers, was not defrocked until he was in his eighties, when, one might suspect his faculties had diminished to the vanishing point.
4
I have seen the effect of political-religious people first hand. Abortion became the hot button issue overriding ALL other values put forth by the Catholic Church. The people and their needs are being overlooked so that a political agenda can be put forth. I even heard a bishop say that liberals should get real because "no one gives up their life for anyone else". Is such a sacrifice not at the core of Catholicism?
23
It was also the prime reason many voted for Trump. Some have admitted that once he made jis appointment to the Supreme Court they were through with him.
I see Pope Francis as a return to Pope John XXIII's teaching on equality, love and inclusion. This is the church I came of age in.
I left the church of rigid doctrine in the 70s and abhor the current American church that aligns with right wing misinformation.
I left the church of rigid doctrine in the 70s and abhor the current American church that aligns with right wing misinformation.
42
I recall Francis Cardinal Spellman of New York blessing the army helicopters during the Vietnam war.
12
"Father Spadaro said he was alarmed by the retrofitting of a mystical apocalyptical worldview into conservative Catholicism."
We've seen something like this before .... when the Nazi party "redid" the Bible to remove subversive Jewish material. At the end of their redo, the whole Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and Paul's Letters were gone. It had been discovered that Jesus was actually of Aryan ancestry (who knew?). And so on.
We know how that ended. Not well for a whole lot of people, and also not well for the "establishment" German church.
Stick to what the Bible teaches. Read all of it. You may be amazed to see how often God's people are commanded to care for the poor, the needy, the widow, the orphan, the foreigner. Sounds sort of like Pope Francis.
We've seen something like this before .... when the Nazi party "redid" the Bible to remove subversive Jewish material. At the end of their redo, the whole Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and Paul's Letters were gone. It had been discovered that Jesus was actually of Aryan ancestry (who knew?). And so on.
We know how that ended. Not well for a whole lot of people, and also not well for the "establishment" German church.
Stick to what the Bible teaches. Read all of it. You may be amazed to see how often God's people are commanded to care for the poor, the needy, the widow, the orphan, the foreigner. Sounds sort of like Pope Francis.
30
It's just amazing to me that any US Catholics would see Steve Bannon, Calista Gingrich and Newt as being representative of anything but bad behavior.
66
Archbishop Chaput is quite simply one of the worst people in Philadelphia, if not America at large.
16
Worst in Denver. Couldn't wait to get rid of him. Rolling lemon would be a compliment.
1
To accuse American conservative Catholics of politicization while praising Cupich's involvement Chicago crime and health care reform and Francis declaring who's Christian and who ain't is chutzpah! I think Francis will go down in history as the New York Times' pope.
4
Follow the link in this article to the NYT discussion about Steve Bannon and the influence of Julius Evola, an Italian proponent of ultra-conservative fascism. This is truly scary stuff. How have we allowed these people to gain the White House? There is a current connection as well between these Evola "Traditionalists" and Putin, who has his own Bannon-like Evola-inspired Rasputin in the Kremlin.
Pray hard, pray often.
Pray hard, pray often.
17
How can the catholic church still have legitimacy after all the child molestation? It's a sick and inhumane organization.
12
Appointing Callista Gingrich to the Vatican is so off-color that it looks like fungus. Who ARE these people? The Invasion of the Huguenots! I was raised by open-minded, brilliant Franciscan nuns and Jesuit priests in the 1950s and 60s, and do not take lightly these "Friends of the Short-Fingerered Vulgarian Pagan!"
Pope Francis rocks. Eat your heart out, Newt, you pudgy parvenu!
Pope Francis rocks. Eat your heart out, Newt, you pudgy parvenu!
36
Actually, the Huguenots were the good guys.
1
Sorry, but I'm not sorry.
The message of Christ is lost on most of these high churchMEN. Forgiveness? Forget it. Love your enemy? No; punish them or drive them out.
I was raised Catholic and, though I was not physically abused, I was abused intellectually and spiritually: harrased by those who were supposed to be providing me spiritual succor; told I was evil; driven out. At 17. Because I wouldn't let my first adult act in their eyes (Confirmation, a series of oaths taken on beliefs I didn't know if I accepted) be to FORSWEAR my oath (by affriming what I did not believe) and so imperil my eternal soul. The Bishop did NOT find my position amusing. I told him that was, quite frankly, his problem with HIS soul; let's just say the interview ended abruptly at that point.
And that was just about it until twenty years later when a priest tried to blackmail me into Confirmation; I was alternately amused, disgusted, and enraged, and no I did not get Confirmed: I found another priest to co-officiate at my wedding (to keep my parents happy).
This church has been eating it's reformers for hundreds of years. Why would I believe this will work?
The day AFTER the Roman Catholic Church elevates the SECOND female Pope (the first will be a PR stunt), I will consider returning. Until then, quite frankly these dopey jerks deserve each other.
Good luck, Frankie Baby: you're going to need it.
The message of Christ is lost on most of these high churchMEN. Forgiveness? Forget it. Love your enemy? No; punish them or drive them out.
I was raised Catholic and, though I was not physically abused, I was abused intellectually and spiritually: harrased by those who were supposed to be providing me spiritual succor; told I was evil; driven out. At 17. Because I wouldn't let my first adult act in their eyes (Confirmation, a series of oaths taken on beliefs I didn't know if I accepted) be to FORSWEAR my oath (by affriming what I did not believe) and so imperil my eternal soul. The Bishop did NOT find my position amusing. I told him that was, quite frankly, his problem with HIS soul; let's just say the interview ended abruptly at that point.
And that was just about it until twenty years later when a priest tried to blackmail me into Confirmation; I was alternately amused, disgusted, and enraged, and no I did not get Confirmed: I found another priest to co-officiate at my wedding (to keep my parents happy).
This church has been eating it's reformers for hundreds of years. Why would I believe this will work?
The day AFTER the Roman Catholic Church elevates the SECOND female Pope (the first will be a PR stunt), I will consider returning. Until then, quite frankly these dopey jerks deserve each other.
Good luck, Frankie Baby: you're going to need it.
13
Our progressive Lutheran church now has several disaffected Catholics as members. Lifelong Catholics, they couldn't abide the conservative movements in their parish and the Church and our now happy members of an inclusive church.
4
This seems like an opportunity for those driven out of the church by "hard-liners" to sound off. I left for the third time, when the food panty I ran for our parish was closed by our pastor who said he just wanted to take care of "our kind". (We were feeding muslims... right before 9/11) What would Jesus do? And who IS our neighbor. Father?
I'd say Francis is returning to the church's roots, and not "attacking America itself". Wow! In one phrase "Mr Breitbart" conflates America with Trump/Bannon and their apocalyptic theocracy. That deserves more than trolling.
BTW I an also originally from Madison Wisconsin. According to my sister, Bishop Morlino is every bit as intolerant as described by other commenters. "Religious Freedom" doesn't mean you can instruct your followers to vote for a particular slate or candidate. Quite the contrary; that's illegal, and grounds for removing a church's tax exemption.
I'd say Francis is returning to the church's roots, and not "attacking America itself". Wow! In one phrase "Mr Breitbart" conflates America with Trump/Bannon and their apocalyptic theocracy. That deserves more than trolling.
BTW I an also originally from Madison Wisconsin. According to my sister, Bishop Morlino is every bit as intolerant as described by other commenters. "Religious Freedom" doesn't mean you can instruct your followers to vote for a particular slate or candidate. Quite the contrary; that's illegal, and grounds for removing a church's tax exemption.
19
Pope Francis has signaled repeatedly---------excluding Dolan from several key meetings during the Pope's visit, relegating Chaput in Philadelphia to the seats behind the seminarians, praising the holy women in their "sacrifice and service"
several times in Philadelphia, NYC, and DC. the Pope has demonstrated who and what he supports, his speech in Mexico following his landing broke new ground in explaining his positions, never carried here or even mentioned here.
several times in Philadelphia, NYC, and DC. the Pope has demonstrated who and what he supports, his speech in Mexico following his landing broke new ground in explaining his positions, never carried here or even mentioned here.
17
First I must say these are the most erudite readers' comments I've ever seen. Guess Catholic schools gave a pretty good education that was worth a few rulers on the knuckles!
Why do American Catholics think we invented this religion? Last I checked it was Roman Catholicism. Didn't Christ ask a guy to pull out a two-sided coin to make a point? And the crowd marveled at His wisdom (so much so that the guy never got his coin back.)
Look at the clerics in the article's pictures, notice any commonality? We will never be truly inclusive so long as women are a separate caste of second class members. How can worshipers of the Good Shepherd, who would leave 99 sheep to find and retrieve one who strayed, so treat half the world's population?
Why do American Catholics think we invented this religion? Last I checked it was Roman Catholicism. Didn't Christ ask a guy to pull out a two-sided coin to make a point? And the crowd marveled at His wisdom (so much so that the guy never got his coin back.)
Look at the clerics in the article's pictures, notice any commonality? We will never be truly inclusive so long as women are a separate caste of second class members. How can worshipers of the Good Shepherd, who would leave 99 sheep to find and retrieve one who strayed, so treat half the world's population?
16
I'm surprised that the reporter did not mention a key phrase from the article in the Jesuit journal "La Civilta' Cattolica". It is integralism. A marriage of fundamentalist faith and hard right politics with politics as the core and spirituality as the cover. Faith as a comforting balm or veneer over one's primarily secular political agenda. In some ways this is very much like the more radical elements in Islam minus the terrorist tactics.
This combination is inherently unstable. As others have pointed out, many evangelicals past and present loathe the Vatican, the dogmas and everything "Papist" or "Romish". Most evangelicals do not celebrate with "liturgy" (fixed prayers in cycles, and programmed stylized worship) but only value spontaneous prayer, heavy doses of preaching and highly personal responses to religious stimuli. Catholics reject Biblical literalism while many evangelicals insist on it. Little wonder Francis thinks alliance this is more political than theological in its reason for existing.
This combination is inherently unstable. As others have pointed out, many evangelicals past and present loathe the Vatican, the dogmas and everything "Papist" or "Romish". Most evangelicals do not celebrate with "liturgy" (fixed prayers in cycles, and programmed stylized worship) but only value spontaneous prayer, heavy doses of preaching and highly personal responses to religious stimuli. Catholics reject Biblical literalism while many evangelicals insist on it. Little wonder Francis thinks alliance this is more political than theological in its reason for existing.
16
Religion and politics are inseparable.
Left-of center politics is atheistic.
Our beloved pope is an atheist.
Left-of center politics is atheistic.
Our beloved pope is an atheist.
1
Reading the roster of Comments here I'm reminded of Wm B. Yeats' "The Second Coming": "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned; the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
7
As a nonreligious person learning to follow Francis with fascination, respect, and, increasingly, love, I am heartened by his vision in the face of American opposition.
American conservative Catholics who support president Trump are working against Christ's message.
They should shut up and listen.
American conservative Catholics who support president Trump are working against Christ's message.
They should shut up and listen.
26
A priest once told me that the church's true and only purpose is to lead each of us to an open, dynamic and personal relationship with God. Unfortunately, the Church seems no different than most secular businesses latching on to issues that will assist its brand and its coffers. See the goodness in all and open the doors.
5
This alliance was forged long before Trump's election and it truly is one of hatred. I pray for Pope Francis and wish him a long and healthy life. I hope that under his tenure, I will once again recognize the compassionate Church I grew up in.
26
We might take note of the absolute fact that under the reign of the conservative political Cardinals that were entrenched in the American church for the last 35 years, Catholic dioceses have declined in every possible measure.
Conservatism and Christianity are not a good mix. Like oil and water, one will rise to the top and suffocate the other. US Christianity is suffocating, and, without change, will soon die with nothing left behind but hucksters like Creflo Dollar.
Like everything that ennobles or degrades us, it starts with a choice. And choosing wrong in this instance will very likely be the final choice they get to make.
Conservatism and Christianity are not a good mix. Like oil and water, one will rise to the top and suffocate the other. US Christianity is suffocating, and, without change, will soon die with nothing left behind but hucksters like Creflo Dollar.
Like everything that ennobles or degrades us, it starts with a choice. And choosing wrong in this instance will very likely be the final choice they get to make.
5
I attended mass in Kansas a while back. For non-Catholics, there is a point in the mass when special prayer requests are made from the pulpit (e.g. "Let us pray for Jane Smith who is ailing today," "Let us pray for Fr. Mike who is traveling." etc.). Anyway, on this day the prayer was, "Let us pray for Pope Francis that he will follow the teachings of the Church." Wow! Just Wow! At this same church years before on the Sunday after Obama was elected, the pastor opened mass with the words, "Let us pray to take back our country."
21
Well, Kansas. Enough said.
13
All American Catholics are NOT hardline conservatives! It's just that those who are, control the media, the pulpits, and the hierarchy of the U.S. Catholic Church. Is it any wonder that those same hardliner Catholics have driven away so many Catholics from the church, that non-practicing Catholics are now the largest 'religious' group! Go Francis Go!
21
Conservative Catholics and evangelicals are CINOs - Christians in name only.
12
Reinhold Niebuhr comes to mind: "Comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable."
Long live Pope Francis. These "holier-than-thou" ultra-right Catholics have hijacked the Church's basic message of the Gospel long enough, and have made veritable deals with the devil to advance their political agendas.
Back to second-grade catechism, all of you: "Love thy God with all thy might, all thy soul, and all thy heart; and love thy neighbor as thyself."
Long live Pope Francis. These "holier-than-thou" ultra-right Catholics have hijacked the Church's basic message of the Gospel long enough, and have made veritable deals with the devil to advance their political agendas.
Back to second-grade catechism, all of you: "Love thy God with all thy might, all thy soul, and all thy heart; and love thy neighbor as thyself."
25
Christian conservatives, Catholic conservatives, and virtually any religion with the word "conservative" associated with it, is more times than not an oxymoron. Pope Francis promotes a compassionate and inclusionary doctrine while conservatives push a mean spirited exclusionary fundamentalism.
Conservatives are trying to merge church and state to push their moral views on all Americans.
Conservatives are trying to merge church and state to push their moral views on all Americans.
10
To Sue in the Northwest, yes, the Catholic church is losing people, and having a waffling social justice worker like Pope Francis in charge has done nothing to stem that. For proof take a look at the mainline Protestant denominations, which mostly succumbed to feminist/gay rights agenda and have been losing members much faster. Which churches have thrived? Evangelical churches, because people who go to church generally don't want a lack of judgment - they want guidance and sometimes tough love. Otherwise, what's the point? My prediction is that the Catholic church in Europe and America will continue to suffer until this impostor Pope is removed from his office.
I have faith that the long-term future of the Catholic church in America is strong. Conservative Catholics have more kids than liberal ones. Archbishop Chaput and others have defended American Catholicism against the anti-American, anti-Catholic Francis. American Catholicism must stand strong.
I have faith that the long-term future of the Catholic church in America is strong. Conservative Catholics have more kids than liberal ones. Archbishop Chaput and others have defended American Catholicism against the anti-American, anti-Catholic Francis. American Catholicism must stand strong.
1
I am cheered by the news. What I cannot fathom is how the American Catholic hierarchy lost the path in the first place. I am the product of an Irish immigrant clan (100%-both parental sides). Immigrants. My mother recently died at age 95 and I recall her sad comments on the anti-immigrant vitriol of some of the candidates in the last presidential election: "Who votes for these people?" She knew full well to her distress that many were her fellow parishioners. The opinion piece lifts some of my shame and discomfort with the Catholic 'tinkling cymbals' of much form but little substance. It is not enough to ease my pain.
11
Pope Francis comes from Argentina. His "neighbors" are over 3,000 miles away.
American Christianity is its own religion. It worships the flag and those parts of the Constitution it supports, it preaches individualism and violence, and its liturgy is football. Most of its adherents have rejected Jesus for Donald.
10
As a life long (61 years) Canadian Catholic; I have always found my fellow brothers and sisters of the Faith a little on the strange side. Theey seem to have a hard time deciding who really speaks for them; the Vatican or the White House. No Catholics in any other part of the world have any such conflicting values. Being Canadian has NEVER conflicted with my Catholic faith;OR vice-versa. As for Pope Francis vs. the extreme conservative agenda within the Church; as far as I am concerned Francis is the TRUE voice of my faith. If certain elements are more in line with evangelical protestants who are far from Christian in my eyes; do not let the Vatican doors slam your behind on the way out. This battle has been raging since Vatican 2 in 1963; I believe as do the majority of Catholics around the world that this was the salvation of the modern Church. It is painful how conservatives have been trying to roll back the clock ever since. We are NOT going back!!
14
I wonder...does the Pope consider abortion to be an intrinsic evil? Does he consider Sacramental Marriage to be between a man and a woman? Does he consider Catholics and Evangelical Protestants working together to accomplish those ends to be evil? Pope Francis is a South American socialist and HE is the one injecting political ideology into Church management. Popes who do not understand economics or political realities should refrain from speaking and acting on these issues. They also should remember the Church's teachings on evil.
2
Why does the NYT take Müller seriously. He is basically a criminal. His response to the sexual abuse of minors was to complain about the "pogrom atmosphere" against the church! As Prefekt of the CDF he hindered any meaningful investigation.
In his previous role as Bishop of Regensburg he protected large scale child abusers, as has now been revealed by the investigation commissioned by his successor as bishop (appointed by Francis). The report of this investigation is makes gruesome reading -- including horrifying details of physical and sexual abuse based on evidence provided by 547 people who were abused while they were members of the Regensburger Domspatzen (Regensburg Cathedral Choir), which has only boys and young men. Müller has consistently refused to apologise to the victims, although the report states that he has "clear responsibility for the strategic, organisational and communicative weaknesses" for his poor efforts to investigate claims of past abuse when they surfaced.
The report can be found on the website of the Regensburg bishopric:
http://www.bistum-regensburg.de/dienst-hilfe/praevention-missbrauch/zahl...
In his previous role as Bishop of Regensburg he protected large scale child abusers, as has now been revealed by the investigation commissioned by his successor as bishop (appointed by Francis). The report of this investigation is makes gruesome reading -- including horrifying details of physical and sexual abuse based on evidence provided by 547 people who were abused while they were members of the Regensburger Domspatzen (Regensburg Cathedral Choir), which has only boys and young men. Müller has consistently refused to apologise to the victims, although the report states that he has "clear responsibility for the strategic, organisational and communicative weaknesses" for his poor efforts to investigate claims of past abuse when they surfaced.
The report can be found on the website of the Regensburg bishopric:
http://www.bistum-regensburg.de/dienst-hilfe/praevention-missbrauch/zahl...
1
Trump just ordained that church leaders can talk politics to their flocks with impunity. So much for the separation of church and state in this country. Phony tel-evangelist marketers have invaded the White House. The country will suffer greatly as Trump placates his evangelical base. The evangelicals have easily been suckered into buying what those phony preachers peddle, so I understand why they are attracted to the greatest phony, Trump. Keep those people away from everything secular.
7
Forgiveness. Charity. Tolerance. Love God. Do unto others...these are some of the virtues Jesus taught. He wasn't about controlling others and judging them. He certainly wasn't about wealth and power. This is what the Church is supposed to be about, and this is where Francis is trying to push us. In my liberal Roman Catholic parish, we try to practice these virtues in a very joyful way and the pews are full, Sunday after Sunday.
7
I am so pleased to hear that some are speaking out against these "conservative" catholics and evangelicals. In my mind, they are not conservative as they claim but rather radical and extreme.
Trump is using these people (for votes) -- and they are using him to pass their agenda of anti-minority, anti-women, pro-male, and anti-christian views on immigrants and the needy.
The one voice of compassion, charity, and reason that I have heard in all of this is the Pope -- and I'm not even a catholic so that's saying something.
Trump is using these people (for votes) -- and they are using him to pass their agenda of anti-minority, anti-women, pro-male, and anti-christian views on immigrants and the needy.
The one voice of compassion, charity, and reason that I have heard in all of this is the Pope -- and I'm not even a catholic so that's saying something.
10
When John F. Kennedy ran for President in 1960, a big concern of Protestants was that, as a Catholic, he would be influenced by the Pope. In response he went out of his way to assure the American people that he would in no way be influenced by religion in his policies and decisions. The Church is inherently hierarchical and aristocratic in its structure and beliefs. Historically, It is completely antithetical to the principles of the Enlightenment which inspired the founding of our republic and informed our bIll of Rights. To Kennedy's credit he kept his promise. Pope John the 23rd, who was the Pope at the time, also refrained from meddling in the election or rendering his opinion on the political issues of the time. Since then every other Pope has respected the boundary between church and state in America, but now, in Pope Francis, who is basically a Communist, we have a pope who favors wealth distribution and other policies which clearly lie outside his authority as the head of the church and, what is more, he is not averse to saying so publicly. But, if the pope is really so concerned about world hunger and inequality, he perhaps should start by redistributing the obscene wealth of the Church instead of that of America's middle class. Liberals may feel vindicated by some of his liberal beliefs, but, if they seem swayed too much by an authoritarian pope who has overstepped his role, they may very well suffer the backlash at the polls which Kennedy feared.
1
Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air in a church that has been mired in self-righteousness for so long. Their inability to recognize what American Catholics need from their church has caused an exodus from the church and its sacraments. We don't need more hierarchy and rules, we need more support as we try to navigate life in a changing country and social milieu. And I resent people like Bannon claiming to be Catholic, or Christian, as they line their own pockets at the expense of the poor, those wanting to become citizens, and those in need of health care.
9
A faithful church-goer, I am still waiting to hear any priest, monsignor, bishop or cardinal speak against GUNS.
The ONLY subjects that are pounded into us from the pulpit are abortion and the sacrament of marriage.
In fact, I am considering NOT supporting my diocese in the Bishop's Annual Appeal next year because I am so upset about the letter that we recently received under a signature from our past Bishop (who has since been relocated to Virginia). In it, he calls for sympathy for the displaced and the needy in his first sentence and in the very second sentence supports borders, immigration laws and the rule of order.
Where is Jesus in that.
The ONLY subjects that are pounded into us from the pulpit are abortion and the sacrament of marriage.
In fact, I am considering NOT supporting my diocese in the Bishop's Annual Appeal next year because I am so upset about the letter that we recently received under a signature from our past Bishop (who has since been relocated to Virginia). In it, he calls for sympathy for the displaced and the needy in his first sentence and in the very second sentence supports borders, immigration laws and the rule of order.
Where is Jesus in that.
6
I'm a liberal and an atheist, and I not only respect religion, I'm grateful that my parents had their faith to carry them through a terrible final year.
What I object to is when people of any spiritual or nonspiritual belief system trespass across other people's personal boundaries to invade their private lives, condemn their private activities, and profane their private beliefs.
It seems to me that far too many people want to manage other people's lives instead of managing their own. Maybe it's because managing one's own life is far more difficult — and inescapably humbling.
What I object to is when people of any spiritual or nonspiritual belief system trespass across other people's personal boundaries to invade their private lives, condemn their private activities, and profane their private beliefs.
It seems to me that far too many people want to manage other people's lives instead of managing their own. Maybe it's because managing one's own life is far more difficult — and inescapably humbling.
11
I found the article in question displayed a profound ignorance of American politics. I believe the outcome of the November election was more of a vote against Clinton than it was a vote for Trump. I also believe many voted Republican,because they were opposed to legalized abortion. There is scant evidence that any of these voters aligned themselves with evangelicals beyond the abortion issue. The Catholic Church remains opposed to legalized abortion. The Catholic Church is far more than any single Pope, even one as singular as Pope Francis. I cannot understand how or why Pope Francis would expect any Catholic to give serious credence to an article that has been co-written by a Presbyterian minister.
2
Just ask yourself: Would Jesus have voted for Trump?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
5
There are some things I like about the Pope, but this isn't one of them. Though we'd likely agree on Trump's faults, to a large degree (not if, like the resistance he thinks he is a fascist) but, though religious leaders are entitled to have political opinions like anyone else, I don't feel they are wise to immerse themselves in petty politics, unless there is something much greater at stake.
1
I fear that some day we will look back at this time and realize just how glorious, certainly not vainglorious, and inspirational Pope Francis is to our time. Catholic evangelicals (yes, they have their own sect as well) and their hypocritical Protestant cousins have misappropriated the morality of their leader, Jesus of Nazareth into a hate campaign of fear and dishonesty.
3
God bless Pope Francis. I would have never have believed that conservative Catholics would morph into redneck Jesus freak bigots. When I was stationed in the segregated south in the 1950s, Catholic Churches were integrated. No pope is infallible, but Pope Francis is a true Christian, unlike evangelicals who love to hate.
7
The Pope is a man and man is full of sin . He ain't all knowing and popes have been on the wrong side of history before.
Pray for Pope Francis! He shall not be moved. Philadelphia doesn't deserve the blind leadership it has! Don't promote him, for heaven's sake.
36
Seems about time Francis names another 20 or so Cardinals.
50
The Vatican is right about the religious Right in this country. With their extremism and hostility toward others, they've done more harm than good. Politics is not the proper arena for religious doctrinal disputes or attacks on those who think differently.
99
Like all Christian conservatives, these conservative Catholics are most concerned with putting women back in "their place." They are unconcerned with the poor or the pursuit of peace.
125
Not only is it unfair to throw all conservative Christians into one group like that, it makes you sound biased. There are Christians obsessed with war and immigration, however there are also many (whom I know personally) that are concerned about the poor and not consumed with politics.
Another point I don't hear mentioned alot on here alot is that Muslims and Conservative Christians have many similar views on abortion and women ect.... This is not to degrade Muslims, but to point out that if you don't like Conservative Christians views on these matters, then why are Muslims not pointed out and judged accordingly?
Another point I don't hear mentioned alot on here alot is that Muslims and Conservative Christians have many similar views on abortion and women ect.... This is not to degrade Muslims, but to point out that if you don't like Conservative Christians views on these matters, then why are Muslims not pointed out and judged accordingly?
1
I hope the Pope addresses the issue with the USCCB which supported the election of Trump in scarcely veiled tactics. US Catholics were advised to formulate their consciences based primarily on the abortion issue. The USCCB backed the bogus religious freedom movement that is taking healthcare away from millions of women. The USCCB doesn't take responsibility for it's own issues, but it clearly wants everyone else to give up democracy.
52
oconm - You are correct. US Catholics were advised to formulate their votes based on abortion. I saw it in a different brochures in churches and was sickened by it as the 'American' Catholic Church doesn't look at the bigger picture in terms of who and what they are voting for. Abortion is a problem that needs to be solved in many ways, but not by putting someone like Trump in the presidency. Now look at the huge mess the USA is in.
1
I have a close female relative who boldly states that she doesn't care about ANY issue other than abortion when it comes to voting, at any level. And yes, she's Catholic and she votes anti-choice. She really doesn't care what the candidate says or does, including committing crimes, as long as he/she is against abortion. I doubt she'll care about what the Pope says either
1
This Pope is trying to make the Catholic Church relevant once again. Meaning that the science of global warming cannot be denied and charity and compassion are the two things that make Christians Christian.
Defeat of global warming calls us to come together across nation-state boundaries and not to retreat into isolationistic posturing. Flag and cross cannot be conflated. Behind hard right conservatism is the preservation of the barbaric manifestations of pure capitalism. This cannot be tolerated if we are to survive as a species.
If the message of the Gospels cannot convert the skeptic then the ceremony and symbolism of faith is lost. So many issues right now call us to look at the Gospels anew and to seek out and love one another as Jesus would have us.
Integrity of faith calls us to dispense with wishful thinking and belief in miracles and to recognize them for what they are: covers for negligence and irresponsibility.
Pure capitalism and the markets will not save humanity. Pro-life that is anti-abortion but disavows healthcare for all and advocates for the death penalty is simply cognitive dissonance. Thoughtfulness and responsible actions will.
And the prosperity gospel is the biggest sham of all.
As Tolstoy once wrote about - religious observance can oftentimes be the greatest obfuscation and lies one practices. Only by living in accordance to the message in the Gospel makes the Gospel relevant. All else is mere sham, smoke and mirrors.
Defeat of global warming calls us to come together across nation-state boundaries and not to retreat into isolationistic posturing. Flag and cross cannot be conflated. Behind hard right conservatism is the preservation of the barbaric manifestations of pure capitalism. This cannot be tolerated if we are to survive as a species.
If the message of the Gospels cannot convert the skeptic then the ceremony and symbolism of faith is lost. So many issues right now call us to look at the Gospels anew and to seek out and love one another as Jesus would have us.
Integrity of faith calls us to dispense with wishful thinking and belief in miracles and to recognize them for what they are: covers for negligence and irresponsibility.
Pure capitalism and the markets will not save humanity. Pro-life that is anti-abortion but disavows healthcare for all and advocates for the death penalty is simply cognitive dissonance. Thoughtfulness and responsible actions will.
And the prosperity gospel is the biggest sham of all.
As Tolstoy once wrote about - religious observance can oftentimes be the greatest obfuscation and lies one practices. Only by living in accordance to the message in the Gospel makes the Gospel relevant. All else is mere sham, smoke and mirrors.
77
Well said, "Behind hard right conservatism is the preservation of the barbaric manifestations of pure capitalism. This cannot be tolerated if we are to survive as a species." Needs repetition in many places.
2
Pope Francis is arguably the most Christ-like person on Earth. US religious conservatives of all denominations are far from this ideal, an ideal that is supposed to form the foundational principles of their faith which they are called to emulate.
23
Um, no. Jesus didn't live in a palace stocked with millions in art work and ancient artifacts. Jesus was not ferried around in a luxury chariot. Jesus was not a Marxist.
1
No more Christ like then any other man who follows Christ. Just like any other man he is a sinner . Don't fool yourself into thinking he is any closer to God than you or anyone e else.
If the President hadn't appointed a guy, Steve Bannon, whose other ambition has been to defeat Pope Francis' inclusiveness and return the Church to what might be characterized as its Thermidor period (involving hostility to the reforms of Vatican II) the writers might not have written such an over the top commentary in La Civilta Cattolica,
The basic problem remains, however. Except in Maryland, in the early United States Catholics were viewed with suspicion and disdain. The Church owes its survival and prosperity in the U.S. to the 1st Amendment which protected us Catholics from hateful preachers and they from us. Amazingly, my decidedly Irish grandfather overcame "Rum, Romanism and Rebellion" to become a Postmaster for McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt.
I came of age in the segregated, heavily evangelical south. The two are not separated; evangelicals justified segregation as they excoriated "Catholics "who have no regard for the things of God", a phrase I heard at a revival. Fortunately, high school classmates ignored adult anti-catholicism.
Fast forward. Today's ultra-conservative bishops ignore the anti-Catholic evangelicals, such as Pastor William Hagee and the movement's creationist hostility to llfe-saving climate science, to join with them in an assault on the 1st Amendment's establishment clause. If successful, history suggests neither the United States nor Catholicism will be winners.
The article is worth a critical reading.
The basic problem remains, however. Except in Maryland, in the early United States Catholics were viewed with suspicion and disdain. The Church owes its survival and prosperity in the U.S. to the 1st Amendment which protected us Catholics from hateful preachers and they from us. Amazingly, my decidedly Irish grandfather overcame "Rum, Romanism and Rebellion" to become a Postmaster for McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt.
I came of age in the segregated, heavily evangelical south. The two are not separated; evangelicals justified segregation as they excoriated "Catholics "who have no regard for the things of God", a phrase I heard at a revival. Fortunately, high school classmates ignored adult anti-catholicism.
Fast forward. Today's ultra-conservative bishops ignore the anti-Catholic evangelicals, such as Pastor William Hagee and the movement's creationist hostility to llfe-saving climate science, to join with them in an assault on the 1st Amendment's establishment clause. If successful, history suggests neither the United States nor Catholicism will be winners.
The article is worth a critical reading.
32
When a religious leader of any faith or sect loses tenets that have long been considered sinful, heretical, sacrilegious, his authority is diminished. And American Catholic conservatives hate losing their longstanding no-nos as it undercuts the ability to instill fear and maintain loyalty. We learned long ago that most Catholic couples practiced a form of birth control that wasn't the church-approved "rhythm method" who practitioners were invariably called "parents." So when this Pope who is a refreshing adult determines that the church loses, not gains, by disallowing divorced parishioners to remarry or to receive communion, it upsets traditions of authority. Like the 6th grade club members, if you don't bring your quota of lemonade and snacks to our treehouse, you won't be admitted. And if you don't support Eddie, the bully's yard where the treehouse is located, for club president, you will be ousted. More and more institutions that cling to those now ancient laws that were devised to keep the peasants in line, the uneducated cowed, the heathens in fear, are passing from existence. About time.
37
>>most Catholic couples practiced a form of birth control that wasn't the church-approved "rhythm method" who practitioners were invariably called "parents."
This is what my mother, 6 kids in 7 yeras, Phi Beta Kappa, said to her husband before she, tough girl she is, in pre-Vatican II 1961 Massachusetts went out and found herself an IUD. One birth almost killed her; two almost killed the children; two sets of children were born within 12 months.
She also told her husband, "You want another? YOU bear it."
God bless her.
This is what my mother, 6 kids in 7 yeras, Phi Beta Kappa, said to her husband before she, tough girl she is, in pre-Vatican II 1961 Massachusetts went out and found herself an IUD. One birth almost killed her; two almost killed the children; two sets of children were born within 12 months.
She also told her husband, "You want another? YOU bear it."
God bless her.
5
Pope Francis has really energized my parish which has a very diverse population of immigrants, poor and well-to-do, young and elderly - his call for inclusion, tolerance and acting in the spirit of the gospels is giving people hope and courage to live better and work for change in a troubled world.
56
Good to hear that the Church is mindful of the dangers of the alt-right in the United States and in particular of Steve Bannon, who seems to drive the President's agenda and whose views threaten not only the U.S. but the world. I hope that my Catholic friends, and others, pay attention.
39
I wasn't very optimistic about the future of the Catholic Church in America as Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict only appointed Bishops and Cardinals that were very conservative and dogmatic. Francis is trying to nudge them all in the direction of compassion, forgiveness and cooperation, but they are very resistant. As right wing authoritarians, they much prefer hating the "other," wanting everyone to do and say as they do, and they are very self-righteous about it all. They are unlikely to change with even the Pope's urgings; they will discount him and his wisdom and wait for someone more strict to come along or leave the church. They aren't "hard-line," which conveys something positive in their stubbornness, so much as "jerks." That is one of the many reasons I no longer call myself a Roman Catholic after 52 years of devotion.
7
I grew up in a family with deep roots in Catholicism. I went to Catholic schools from kindergarten through college graduation. I served as an altar boy, had eight years of Latin study in high school and college and was a volunteer Catholic Youth Organization (CYO) counselor in rural western Maryland as part of an outreach program sponsored by my college. In many respects I consider myself a conservative Catholic. I hated when the Latin Mass went English. I never had a problem with priests having his back to the congregation during Mass. I think lay people should act as ushers passing the collection baskets not handing out communion and I wince at guitar strumming folk-like singers trying to modernize hymns at the expense of Gregorian Chant and a good choir. I had a difficult time too adjusting to the fact a sitting Pope could just retire. However, I never thought divorced Catholics, LBGT Catholics, Catholics who have had abortions, immigrant Catholics or the like should ever be excluded from the Mass or receiving communion. And never it my wildest imagination would I ever condone "apocalyptic geopolitics," nor would I ever vote for any politician who attempted to use religion to influence a political agenda. Unfortunate, but many politicians mask their political agendas as merely such, failing to disclose their underlying belief that their vision for the world is based on a misguided perception their undertakings are in the name and teachings of Jesus Christ.
22
I am a very liberal, Catholic and love Pope Francis. My two sons are Catholic and the eldest is about to go to high school, private all boys Catholic school. I expect my son, who is very well versed in politics, will debate his fellow Republican classmates on a daily basis. (These are the same people who said at our Catholic Church that Obama was not born in the Hawaii, US.) Our local public high school, Carlmont HS, was marked with anti-semitic graffiti this spring. The Carlmont JV baseball team started every game with extremely racist comments against African Americans in the huddle prior to 26 games this spring. Racism is alive in well in the SF Bay Area. The US Catholic Church must fight this. Stop worrying about reproductive rights and gay marriage. The children in the US today need help, it is scary out there...They need to live by the Golden Rule. Respect must be given to all people regardless, of skin color, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation. This is what I expect to be instilled in my children from the Catholic church. Social Justice should be at the top.
70
If you are Catholic you are pro-life. How does that square with your liberalism?
Jesus upbraided the Pharisees, noting that, “Their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.” We need to heed Jesus’s call and quit worshipping human rules. Two great example of this are our Catholic Church’s fascination with opposing contraception and gay marriage.
So we sell out everything and ally ourselves with forces like that of President Trump, in the hope he can shore up our human rules, while in the meantime the call of the Gospel goes unheeded. And in the process, we overlook all of the sinfulness that saturates everything he is about—including, ironically, his treatment of women.
So we sell out everything and ally ourselves with forces like that of President Trump, in the hope he can shore up our human rules, while in the meantime the call of the Gospel goes unheeded. And in the process, we overlook all of the sinfulness that saturates everything he is about—including, ironically, his treatment of women.
20
Most Evangelicals I've spoken with don't consider Catholics to be "Christians" - on the contrary, the Church is vilified, almost as much as the Muslim invaders, and sometimes as much as the US government itself.
Organized religion is ultimately the exploitation of one's spirituality, using guilt and fear, along with the promise of eternal salvation, to manipulate people into supporting an institution's array of policies and agendas. So, despite the more liberal positions of Pope Francis, many Evangelicals see eye-to-eye with conservative Catholics on the key knee-jerk issues, abortion and same-sex marriage, and are therefore willing to form an alliance.
The right wing religious zealots who have infiltrated Congress and the WH realize that they need to consolidate their voting base in order to maintain and expand their political power and influence. They realize that the more people they can split along ideological lines, the easier it is to coerce and control them. Therefore, they focus on exploiting people's positions on the two knee-jerk issues, often hiding behind the First Amendment, and the bible, to justify the spread of their divisive, and some would say hateful, positions.
Organized religion is ultimately the exploitation of one's spirituality, using guilt and fear, along with the promise of eternal salvation, to manipulate people into supporting an institution's array of policies and agendas. So, despite the more liberal positions of Pope Francis, many Evangelicals see eye-to-eye with conservative Catholics on the key knee-jerk issues, abortion and same-sex marriage, and are therefore willing to form an alliance.
The right wing religious zealots who have infiltrated Congress and the WH realize that they need to consolidate their voting base in order to maintain and expand their political power and influence. They realize that the more people they can split along ideological lines, the easier it is to coerce and control them. Therefore, they focus on exploiting people's positions on the two knee-jerk issues, often hiding behind the First Amendment, and the bible, to justify the spread of their divisive, and some would say hateful, positions.
14
I know two very conservative Catholics. They already have converted their catholicism into political extremism. I think they may just be extremist black/white good/evil thinkers by nature. Unfortunately for the rest of us, they do not seem to understand that their way of political thinking ends in our government becoming more theocratic (which would be a tragedy.) But they both think that would be just fine!!
Already, Trump is moving to change IRS rules that would allow tax exempt religious organizations to organize politically and promote political views from the pulpit. There is (or should be) a fundamental divide between religion and politics. If there is not, churches have no right to avoid taxes because they have become nothing more than political factions by a different name.
Already, Trump is moving to change IRS rules that would allow tax exempt religious organizations to organize politically and promote political views from the pulpit. There is (or should be) a fundamental divide between religion and politics. If there is not, churches have no right to avoid taxes because they have become nothing more than political factions by a different name.
40
One possible solution would be to get rid of the tax-exempt status for all churches. The income from just the Catholic church and Scientology alone (in property taxes) would probably get rid of our deficit!
4
Tread carefully Pope Francis.The ultra conservative and political wings of the Catholic and other Christian churches love power and money above all else and won't loosen their grip on either easily. Expect smear campaigns or worse. Your popularity coupled with all your talk of caring for the poor and being generous is simply too dangerous to tolerate! How can affirmative action be rolled back, immigration limited to the advantageous, taxes for the rich be reduced and health care for all be eliminated in the face of all your talk of our universal catholic duty to take care of those less advantage
20
This Vatican article seems on the mark to me. Trump definitely is no Christian, he has never demonstrated any adherence to or knowledge of Christian values. And American conservative Catholics have been pursuing an agenda of divisiveness and hate. They rail against the notions of helping one's fellow humans, of having generosity, humility, compassion, and so on. They seem intent on promoting conflict and evil.
I think Pope Francis should start excommunicating some conservative Catholics, probably starting with Bannon the Hutt. Better that Catholicism not be connected to these hate-filled jihadists.
I think Pope Francis should start excommunicating some conservative Catholics, probably starting with Bannon the Hutt. Better that Catholicism not be connected to these hate-filled jihadists.
18
I add my voice to those rejoicing in these scraps of solace thrown our way from the Vatican. Today's Catholic Church is unrecognizable to me, despite my 19 years of Catholic schooling, Kindergarten - Masters degree.
Everything in my grammar school (1960s) was about ecumenism, tolerance that was not begrudging but joyful, generosity, charity, diversity, actively working on projects that would help the poor, the sick, the needy, the lonely, the old. Now, a fair number of clerics are embittered at their loss of stature and respect following the enormous debacle of the child sex abuse scandal, parishioners are disgusted that piles of our hard-earned funds wound up settling all these horrific cases, 80-90% of American Catholics freely and openly practice birth control, and many of us in conscience do not accept the church's teachings regarding homosexuality, celibacy or the "impossibility" of ordaining women.
Having gotten used to my church considering nearly everyone I know as living in a state of sin for such things as exercising our right to control our family size or the spacing of our children, I struggle mightily with the gobsmacking hypocrisy of their continuing focus on aligning with the overall conservative movement and its worrisome focus on power, wealth and control.
Inasmuch as my local Catholic newspaper celebrated the loss of HRC and the election of DJT, and is filled with op-eds that sound like Fox News is writing them, I welcome this letter from Rome.
Everything in my grammar school (1960s) was about ecumenism, tolerance that was not begrudging but joyful, generosity, charity, diversity, actively working on projects that would help the poor, the sick, the needy, the lonely, the old. Now, a fair number of clerics are embittered at their loss of stature and respect following the enormous debacle of the child sex abuse scandal, parishioners are disgusted that piles of our hard-earned funds wound up settling all these horrific cases, 80-90% of American Catholics freely and openly practice birth control, and many of us in conscience do not accept the church's teachings regarding homosexuality, celibacy or the "impossibility" of ordaining women.
Having gotten used to my church considering nearly everyone I know as living in a state of sin for such things as exercising our right to control our family size or the spacing of our children, I struggle mightily with the gobsmacking hypocrisy of their continuing focus on aligning with the overall conservative movement and its worrisome focus on power, wealth and control.
Inasmuch as my local Catholic newspaper celebrated the loss of HRC and the election of DJT, and is filled with op-eds that sound like Fox News is writing them, I welcome this letter from Rome.
31
to jack of pa,
Climate change & refugees certainly are issues central to respect for life and the Catholic faith unless you've ignore the thousands who dying because of both.
Our decades of undeclared wars and disregard for our stewardship responsibilities for our world continue to destroy lives.
Climate change & refugees certainly are issues central to respect for life and the Catholic faith unless you've ignore the thousands who dying because of both.
Our decades of undeclared wars and disregard for our stewardship responsibilities for our world continue to destroy lives.
3
American Fundamentalist Christians largely ignore the Gospels, preferring cherry-picked OT scripture that conforms to, and sanctifies, their rather mean dispositions. One thinks of AFCs and one thinks executions, slavery, the KKK, the NRA, segregation, a massive military, POVERTY, indeed one thinks of the GOP. Theirs is much more an American than Christian theology, rife with the racism, bigotry and segregation that permeates the nation's history.
7
If these so-called conservative Catholics were really conservative Christians they would follow the oldest teachings of the church, as does the Pope: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, show compassion to one's neighbor. Instead they let Republicans use guns, abortion and gay rights to turn them into "useful idiots" to advance the right-wing agenda, build walls, acquire extreme wealth, take food out of the mouths of the poor....
122
The problem with these Conservative "Catholics" is that they believe in control and the laws (read: Pharisees) more than they do accepting the Church, which is to welcome all, has human beings in it. When these Conservatives make mistakes (as they do in considerable measure), they are quick to seek privilege for their error but are quick to dismiss those who struggle, the poor, and often times, the marginalized. The clergy are no exception. Dada is right. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked---all the corporeal works of mercy are a good reminder that prayer alone is not sufficient. Catholics are not justified by their faith alone.
11
The article, and similar actions by the Vatican, are hopeful signs. For Catholics with concerns about Pope Benedict's agenda, I urge them to re-examin, with an open mind and heart, the teachings of their founder.
29
As everything in the USA, it is about MONEY (power ). Hence the recalcitrant
religious fundamentalist right, so distant from the teachings of Christ.
religious fundamentalist right, so distant from the teachings of Christ.
20
Steve Bannon in his speech to the Vatican in 2015 states
“whether it was French resistance fighters, whether it was the Polish resistance fighters, or it’s the young men from Kansas City or the Midwest who stormed the beaches of Normandy, commandos in England that fought with the Royal Air Force, that fought this great war, really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right?"
“The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal. It kind of organized and built the materials needed to support, whether it’s the Soviet Union, England, the United States, and eventually to take back continental Europe and to beat back a barbaric empire in the Far East.”
"That capitalism really generated tremendous wealth. And that wealth was really distributed among a middle class, a rising middle class, people who come from really working-class environments and created what we really call a Pax Americana. It was many, many years and decades of peace.”
Wow! Bannon thinks the Great War was a battle of “good vs evil.” Kansas farm boys vs atheism?
Then goes on to the disputed economic theory of “trickle-down economics” of “tremendous wealth really distributed to a middle class...Pax Americana of many, many years and decades of peace.”
Incredible codswallop! Bannon explains that working at Goldman Sachs gave him a “unique view” of the world! Sees China as the barbaric east?
Pope Francis is right that Trump/Bannon aren’t Christian.
“whether it was French resistance fighters, whether it was the Polish resistance fighters, or it’s the young men from Kansas City or the Midwest who stormed the beaches of Normandy, commandos in England that fought with the Royal Air Force, that fought this great war, really the Judeo-Christian West versus atheists, right?"
“The underlying principle is an enlightened form of capitalism, that capitalism really gave us the wherewithal. It kind of organized and built the materials needed to support, whether it’s the Soviet Union, England, the United States, and eventually to take back continental Europe and to beat back a barbaric empire in the Far East.”
"That capitalism really generated tremendous wealth. And that wealth was really distributed among a middle class, a rising middle class, people who come from really working-class environments and created what we really call a Pax Americana. It was many, many years and decades of peace.”
Wow! Bannon thinks the Great War was a battle of “good vs evil.” Kansas farm boys vs atheism?
Then goes on to the disputed economic theory of “trickle-down economics” of “tremendous wealth really distributed to a middle class...Pax Americana of many, many years and decades of peace.”
Incredible codswallop! Bannon explains that working at Goldman Sachs gave him a “unique view” of the world! Sees China as the barbaric east?
Pope Francis is right that Trump/Bannon aren’t Christian.
30
He was referring to WWII, not the Great War.
1
Bundling up the religious hard right with jihadists, Francis shure can deliver a punch. But then, who would have thought that so many American lovers of Jesus would consistently support policies tainted with racism, discrimination, cruelty towards the poorest members of society, troubled teen-age girls and whoever is not at the same time white, ignorant and war-mongering?
44
Those 'American lovers of Jesus would consistently support policies tainted with racism, discrimination, cruelty towards the poorest members of society, troubled teen-age girls and whoever is not at the same time white, ignorant and war-mongering' are the Alt-Christians. They are not really followers of Christ.. They are Christians in-name only.
1
I suggest complete excommunication; en masse.
9
I'm 20 years old, gay, a college student, a left Democrat, and a devoted Catholic. Growing up, I struggled to reconcile the Church of figures like Bl. Oscar Romero, Dorothy Day, Gustavo Gutierrez, and yes, Christ himself with the conservatism and backwardness of our American bishops and archbishops under JP II and Benedict. Finally, Pope Francis has come to remind us that calling yourself Catholic is not just a convenient excuse for your medieval opinions. Conservative American Catholics are about to find out what they should have had in mind the whole time: in the Church, there can be no "America First." The Pope is the Pope is the Pope, and you can't just pick a fight or try to discredit him when his doctrine suddenly makes it harder for you to use religion as a crutch in your crusade to turn back our national clock to 1860.
55
Natallie, I'm glad you continue to stick with us. It can be tough, but I believe it's worth it.
1
The parable of Jesus and the woman at the well comes to mind. He was all for love, attraction and forgiveness rather than division, control and revilement.
17
Those ultraconservatives who embrace the moneychangers and reject the teachings and examples of Jesus should be excommunicated. They are evil, and they don't care who knows it.
20
The Catholic Church in America continues to strive to control females and its alliance with evangelicals and Republicans to remove Abortion is just part of the effort.
Many Catholics from this group do not even recognize Jesuits as Catholics.....and Papa Francis is similar to President Obama to them, an unwanted minority.....
Many Catholics from this group do not even recognize Jesuits as Catholics.....and Papa Francis is similar to President Obama to them, an unwanted minority.....
18
Okay minor quibble...he has not so much criticized capitalism so much as our inability to recover from the seriously horrible and abusive versions and impacts of capitalism-- think 'the poor'. And this is the moral and values oath of loving people vs blind profit, or reacting to the current standard Trumpian standard of 'it's only wrong if I get convicted.' The idea of a morally defendable version of free markets, business in ways that doesn't, for example, externalizations the cost to people, the environment or the health of the planet...hmm really he's the 'triple bottom line Pope.'
4
Jesus literally said heal the sick and feed the hungry. So 'Conservative Christians' are not reading the Bible literally, either, they only claim to when it suits them.
24
“If anyone isn't willing to work, he should not eat..."
-2 Thess. 3:10
-2 Thess. 3:10
The same Conservatives Catholic who in the past justified every decision of previous Popes by invoking Papal Infallibility are today questioning the Authority of a Pope they don't agree with.
The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy.
The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy.
42
Yay Francis! He might save the Catholic Church in America, which is losing members "bigly, (to use a right wing intellectual term). The church needs to be liberated from its stodgy and mean spirited ways and preach the gospel of love, inclusion and justice again. And as a matter of housekeeping duties, let's face it, it's about time people who remarry outside the faith should be able to receive their beloved communion. Honestly, would Jesus Christ have denied this from the people he loved? Of course not.
19
I'm not sure how sending Newt and Callista Gingrich to Rome is going to make Bannon's positions any more palatable to Pope Francis. What a huge insult, and I mean huuuuuge.
34
Calista is a finger in the eye to Francis, who obviously does not see Trump as part of the trinity or pray "Hail Donald full of grace."
2
If being a "former altar boy" is evidence that Bannon is Roman Catholic, then he should have no problem talking St. Peter out of a one way ticket to hell.
13
If I understand the conservative catholic tribe ideology well, they propose that only conservative inspired dictates from the flock and her minion leaders are legitimate grounds. The Potiff is only permitted to pontificate within a narrow political region that, at its roots, resembles right-wing rhetoric that is against any liberal tradition. The history of the Church since is a nonlinear progression tracks the collective worldview of its members as interpreted from the four gospels. The first Pope had been ordained by Jesus: 'you are Peter, my rock, what you bind on this earth will be bound in heaven....'. Each successor of St. Peter carries the burden of office and reponsibility for continuing a tradition of inclusivitiy as fits the times and within the tennants of faith, as prescribe by the Pope - not the Ordinaries and Cardinals he may select to provide him advice from time to time. In effect, the American bishops and cardinals serve the Pope. When they cross the line and engage in secular politics by using right-wing interpretations of Fake precepts from the Bible, it is they who had become "Useful Idiots". Pope France, God-willing, will make history when he opens the door to the permanent deconate to women. Then the current Church will be in harmony with its ancient tradition of having women serve as Decons and similar important roles that conservatives quashed since the early Church. Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air since John XXIII inaugurated Vatican II.
15
I was in Catholic School from kindergarten through undergraduate with the Sisters of Mercy, the Jesuits and finally the Friars. That education was conservative and liberal at different intervals. In college, the hardline conservatives seemed a minority, and the rest of us joked of our "Lapsed-ness" in varying degrees. Essentially a jibe for the public earnestness of our radical peers. All relatively harmless.
20 some-odd years later and my contact with ultra-conservatives tends to be from people who did not further their formal Catholic education. The private-school nature made to be something of a "fortunate son" scenario, whether true or not. It is striking though that these hardline Catholics last sat in a classroom with a nun, brother or priest while still teenagers and probably wearing a blazer or something plaid. They never had the challenge of the discourse that a Catholic College entreats young minds with. That is a shame, and accordingly, they come across as ideologues and frankly, lightweights.
Many of my college circle, whatever their degree of participation in the Mass or overall faith, applauded the election of Francis. Even his taking the name of St. Francis is imbued with great serenity and peace. I've seen peers go back to Mass, feeling once again at home and enjoying leadership that practices what it preaches. And what it taught us over all those years in adolescence.
20 some-odd years later and my contact with ultra-conservatives tends to be from people who did not further their formal Catholic education. The private-school nature made to be something of a "fortunate son" scenario, whether true or not. It is striking though that these hardline Catholics last sat in a classroom with a nun, brother or priest while still teenagers and probably wearing a blazer or something plaid. They never had the challenge of the discourse that a Catholic College entreats young minds with. That is a shame, and accordingly, they come across as ideologues and frankly, lightweights.
Many of my college circle, whatever their degree of participation in the Mass or overall faith, applauded the election of Francis. Even his taking the name of St. Francis is imbued with great serenity and peace. I've seen peers go back to Mass, feeling once again at home and enjoying leadership that practices what it preaches. And what it taught us over all those years in adolescence.
26
So it's only the completely indoctrinated Catholics who can understand the complexity of Catholicism? Then explain to me this oh wise one - what happens when a conservative cardinal becomes elevated once more to the Papacy?
Just as we did through the times of Benedict, and to a lesser degree ST. JPII, we remain faithful to the teachings of our Lord and Master JC.
What will happen? Status Quo Ante, and Devil take the (liberal) hindmost.
As a sixty year old, raised Catholic and absent from any Mass or other service since Confirmation at the age of 13, I have finally found a reason to return to the Church. The Pope's focus on social justice and his pushback against Brannon and his kind have stirred me to consider this.
31
It is important to recognise how influenced by hardline protestantism American catholicism has become. No catholic can believe in the unerring truth of the bible. The Church accepts there can be no conflict between true religion and science, this view is anathema to many conservative US catholics, yet is church teaching.
The Catholic church globally is more concerned with social equity than with sexuality - another major difference between the Church and the church in the USA.
The Catholic church globally is more concerned with social equity than with sexuality - another major difference between the Church and the church in the USA.
23
The Pope and his two associates are speaking too late. They should have done this before the election. Many 'pro-life' Catholics voted for Trump because they believed that was what the Church wanted them to do. It was these single issue Catholic voters who really put Trump over the top in the election. It is too late now, but the article is still useful as guidance for those 'pro-life' Catholics who are not really right-wing on other issues like poverty, healthcare, immigration and the environment.
15
These Catholics voted as their priests advised them to do.
There's an election coming in 2018; we'll see if they get the 'new' word.
There's an election coming in 2018; we'll see if they get the 'new' word.
1
I have long felt that there is now a schism between American Catholics - those who look to Rome for spiritual guidance and those who look to politicians for political guidance under the façade of religion.
25
The American Catholic Church only has to look at the fact that younger Catholics are leaving the Church in droves to understand that they are becoming spiritually irrelevant to newer generations of Catholics. And today's conservatism is nothing like the conservatism of my father who was a very religious man who lied about his age to enlist in WWII and who felt that conservatism was about defending freedom and supporting those who were less fortunate. There is nothing remotely Catholic about today's conservatives.
34
This nation and many religious groups have no knowledge of roots of our nation.
History understood by bible, Spirit of the Savior from beginning, been our guiding geniuses; SCJ, Earl Warren
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God; Thomas Jefferson
We wrote this Constitution for a free, holy, moral, Christian people, it is wholly inadequate for any other; Benjamin Franklin
Christianity and morality are indispensable supports. Reason and experience forbid us to expect national morality in exclusion of Christian principles; George Washington
The Bible is the meaning of life, leading to peace and salvation, America was born a Christian nation; George Washington
Most the Constitution came form the Bible, liberty, freedom, laws, Bill of Rights, all the writings by them express true Christian values became virtues when there was problems.
Benjamin Franklin; During the war we were reasonable to prayer and asked our Father to help us through these battles, I fear now we have abandoned this and are losing our way, unless we return to these I fear our nation will end before our time.
These founders understood and returned to the roots that protected them for they read, learned, understood and followed it`s pure doctrine without any cults deluding it`s pure message
they also stated if this nation falls away from this it is only time before our children will one day wake up homeless on the nation our founders fought and died for. What do we see today ??
History understood by bible, Spirit of the Savior from beginning, been our guiding geniuses; SCJ, Earl Warren
Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God; Thomas Jefferson
We wrote this Constitution for a free, holy, moral, Christian people, it is wholly inadequate for any other; Benjamin Franklin
Christianity and morality are indispensable supports. Reason and experience forbid us to expect national morality in exclusion of Christian principles; George Washington
The Bible is the meaning of life, leading to peace and salvation, America was born a Christian nation; George Washington
Most the Constitution came form the Bible, liberty, freedom, laws, Bill of Rights, all the writings by them express true Christian values became virtues when there was problems.
Benjamin Franklin; During the war we were reasonable to prayer and asked our Father to help us through these battles, I fear now we have abandoned this and are losing our way, unless we return to these I fear our nation will end before our time.
These founders understood and returned to the roots that protected them for they read, learned, understood and followed it`s pure doctrine without any cults deluding it`s pure message
they also stated if this nation falls away from this it is only time before our children will one day wake up homeless on the nation our founders fought and died for. What do we see today ??
1
American Catholicism, he argued, echoing the article’s thesis, “has become different than mainstream European Catholicism and mainstream Latin American Catholicism,” and has fallen “into the hands of the religious right.”
I would argue that Mainstream European Catholicism has changed and not American Catholicism. I think most American Catholics would agree that the only thing we want from the Pope is to remain true to the doctrine of the church instead of trying to re write the bible, as many protestant denominations are doing. Stay true to the faith.
I would argue that Mainstream European Catholicism has changed and not American Catholicism. I think most American Catholics would agree that the only thing we want from the Pope is to remain true to the doctrine of the church instead of trying to re write the bible, as many protestant denominations are doing. Stay true to the faith.
Dolan and his buddies are NOT the church. They are GOP party hacks in red dresses. One of the best Christians I have encountered, Archbishop Rembert Weakland and Francis are what the church is and need to be. Evangelize yourselves first.
The problem with the Civilta article is that neither of the two authors has spent any substantial time in the US, and the article shows it. As scholars, they should not have relied so much on second-hand information when primary sources were available for their study. It's just not good scholarship.
1
Yet somehow, they discerned the truth.
9
No surprise. Look at US Catholicism losing membership faster than other denominations.
When I had to talk to my catholic church education office about what they were teaching and that it fell short of my values of tolerance and inclusion, their response fell short. I chose to vote with my feet -- and clearly many others are as well for a variety of reasons. The Vatican's calling out the US Catholics is the gift of feedback and cause for reflection.
When I had to talk to my catholic church education office about what they were teaching and that it fell short of my values of tolerance and inclusion, their response fell short. I chose to vote with my feet -- and clearly many others are as well for a variety of reasons. The Vatican's calling out the US Catholics is the gift of feedback and cause for reflection.
16
Per historian Kevin Kruse's excellent "One Nation, Under God," the American religious right was spawned in the late 1930s by old line, moneyed conservatives (prior-day Kochs) who were hoping to thereby derail support for the godless New Deal. They found opportunistic clerics (e.g., young Billy Graham) who were willing to align Jesus and the New Testament with capitalism (an odd mixture, indeed). Originally a Protestant phenomenon, it appears to have drawn-in some credulous Catholics, of late.
The irreconcilable tension between the teachings of Jesus and the cruel dictates The Right, Alt- and otherwise, continues. There will always be easily manipulated people to serve as willing dupes. It's important to understand that and communicate it openly, lest they gain further undue influence.
So thanks once again, Pope Francis.
The irreconcilable tension between the teachings of Jesus and the cruel dictates The Right, Alt- and otherwise, continues. There will always be easily manipulated people to serve as willing dupes. It's important to understand that and communicate it openly, lest they gain further undue influence.
So thanks once again, Pope Francis.
26
Please pick up the book, Excellent Catholic Parishes. These are parishes in the US who have been practicing the New Testament, the Gospels for many years. My church is in Upper Sadle River, NJ. When I am in Los Angeles, I attend, St. Monica's in Santa Monica or St Agatha's in Los Angeles. Andrew Sullivan attends a church in NYC. They all feed the poor, minister to the sick, welcome all, have a ministry to the needy in Hati and have Gay communities.
I am not a Catholic and have no love of the Church, although I do admire many of its members and leaders.
But I do love watching rigid proponents of an authoritarian system chafe under the new authority. Not so pleasant, huh, when it's your ox being gored?
But I do love watching rigid proponents of an authoritarian system chafe under the new authority. Not so pleasant, huh, when it's your ox being gored?
12
Imagine that. A Pope insisting his congregation follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. What in the world has gotten into the Vatican?
24
Past Popes and Cardinals have excommunicated Catholics for their political views. If the Pope is serious about his beliefs, he should excommunicate Catholics who exemplify these repugnant positions. But he does not do so. Following in the footsteps of prior Popes, Francis sins more by omission than by commission. But look for The Church to offer moral leadership a century too late, as it has done in the past.
6
I am willing to go further than La Civilta Cattolica and Pope Francis will go. I firmly believe that it is impossible to truly be a Christian (i.e, follow the teachings of Jesus Christ) and be an right wing conservative in this country at the same time. Many of the political beliefs and actions of these so called christians (e.g. such as members of the Freedom Caucus in the House) are antithetical to Christ's teachings. They would deny the poor sustenance, the homeless shelter, and ill adequate healthcare etc. all for political gain and the financial betterment of the rich.
Having been raised in the Catholic Church myself, 12 years of Catholic schools, then college with the Jesuits, I was fortunately raised by devout parents who taught me to think, to care, and to realize that I was not the center of the universe and needed to think outward toward others. Paul Ryan and his minions, and the right wing media in this country, want their followers to hate, to deny, to restrict, and to hoard.
Having been raised in the Catholic Church myself, 12 years of Catholic schools, then college with the Jesuits, I was fortunately raised by devout parents who taught me to think, to care, and to realize that I was not the center of the universe and needed to think outward toward others. Paul Ryan and his minions, and the right wing media in this country, want their followers to hate, to deny, to restrict, and to hoard.
50
Grateful for the article, gives me hope! I am a cradle Catholic, and a liberal. I love Francis and his Christlike message! Tragically, Christianity has been highjacked by the conservatives, and they can no longer be called true followers of Christ. These folks are fearful and they reject Francis because he challenges them to be Christ in the world. They attend church, but hate their neighbors who may not look like them, or whom believe differently from them. I had an argument with a conservative "Christian" who told me when I reminded them that they are Christian, that "she was an American first." This tells you what they value. It's alarming reminding me of the Germans during Hitler and their blind obedience to a set of beliefs that went against the Gospels.
Years ago, I heard a preacher preach who reminded us, that the majority of people who claim to be Christian, have never read the Gospels and do not know personally what the message of Jesus was/is. This is dangerous, because they are then easily misled and they believe the lies and buy into the "prosperity gospel"!
Jesus' great commandment still is, "Love one another as I have loved you..." however you do not hear of "Christians" wanting to put this commandment up in public! It's because they ignore it. Like they ignore much, if not all of the Four Gospels.
Years ago, I heard a preacher preach who reminded us, that the majority of people who claim to be Christian, have never read the Gospels and do not know personally what the message of Jesus was/is. This is dangerous, because they are then easily misled and they believe the lies and buy into the "prosperity gospel"!
Jesus' great commandment still is, "Love one another as I have loved you..." however you do not hear of "Christians" wanting to put this commandment up in public! It's because they ignore it. Like they ignore much, if not all of the Four Gospels.
15
I was taught in parochial elementary school that my religion was the only true religion, those with other beliefs were wrong and misguided to the point of eternal damnation. The similarities between this teaching and that of radicals is both nauseating and frightening.
I have met only a few priests/ clergy who I believe taught Jesus' true message, and find this article a hopeful sign that Pope Francis is one of them. I pray for his safety.
I have met only a few priests/ clergy who I believe taught Jesus' true message, and find this article a hopeful sign that Pope Francis is one of them. I pray for his safety.
11
What has Francis done to make you think that he doesn't believe that Catholicism is not the "only true religion?" He seems less rigid than Benedict was but he finished Benedict's quest to destroy any independence of American sisters. He put them under the thumb of a conservative member of the church hierarchy, male, of course.
If he does think that American Catholic leaders have become too enmeshed in rightwing politics, why doesn't he call them to the Vatican and tell them what to think and say as he has done to sisters, adult women who support themselves, keep the Commandments and revere the Catholic Church. But they are educated people who live in this world and read their Bibles. They naturally wonder why their church prohibits them from being priests when women can clearly do everything that men do. And for this, they have been slapped down.
Imo, Francis does not mean to be a cruel man. It's not part of his personality as it has been in some former popes. But he preaches the same brutality toward women that the others have taught. It's not his intention. It springs from his indoctrination which preaches that women have no right to have both sex and to choose how many children she has, that girl children must carry a pregnancy to term even if it kills them. They've seen priests who have raped dozens, even hundreds of children, enabled and protected by the church and they wonder why. For that, Francis shut them up.
He's really no different than than the others.
If he does think that American Catholic leaders have become too enmeshed in rightwing politics, why doesn't he call them to the Vatican and tell them what to think and say as he has done to sisters, adult women who support themselves, keep the Commandments and revere the Catholic Church. But they are educated people who live in this world and read their Bibles. They naturally wonder why their church prohibits them from being priests when women can clearly do everything that men do. And for this, they have been slapped down.
Imo, Francis does not mean to be a cruel man. It's not part of his personality as it has been in some former popes. But he preaches the same brutality toward women that the others have taught. It's not his intention. It springs from his indoctrination which preaches that women have no right to have both sex and to choose how many children she has, that girl children must carry a pregnancy to term even if it kills them. They've seen priests who have raped dozens, even hundreds of children, enabled and protected by the church and they wonder why. For that, Francis shut them up.
He's really no different than than the others.
This "Pope" is a disgrace, compared to my growing up under a legend like John Paul II. I remember looking forward to Pope Francis' visit to the US, and as a Catholic, was shocked to see him yucking it up with Barack Obama, a man who literally voted to legalize infanticide in the Illinois State Senate. Pope Francis loves his media adulation, but when it came time to speak to Congress, he acted as a left-wing Democrat. rattling off about climate change and refugees while completely ignoring issue much more central to the Catholic faith like respect for life and marriage.
In short, Pope Francis is absolutely nothing more than a left-wing Democrat in the mold of Elizabeth Warren or Cory Booker. His political views are the same. He is an impostor leading the Catholic Church, and American Catholics, after early leeway, are onto the fact that he is a destructive force. Not only is he a leftist, he's also a petty, vindictive, and closed-minded man who promotes and demotes based on how much one agrees with his leftist philosophy. American Catholics must stand strong in defense of our church against Pope Francis.
In short, Pope Francis is absolutely nothing more than a left-wing Democrat in the mold of Elizabeth Warren or Cory Booker. His political views are the same. He is an impostor leading the Catholic Church, and American Catholics, after early leeway, are onto the fact that he is a destructive force. Not only is he a leftist, he's also a petty, vindictive, and closed-minded man who promotes and demotes based on how much one agrees with his leftist philosophy. American Catholics must stand strong in defense of our church against Pope Francis.
2
And yet, he is infallible.
Exhibit B.
Obama did not vote to legalize infanticide. That is a rightwing twaddle.
Do you really think that John Paul II didn't promote people who represented his view of the church? Was that petty and vindictive?
Sadly, you seem to have missed the homily on God's grace.
Do you really think that John Paul II didn't promote people who represented his view of the church? Was that petty and vindictive?
Sadly, you seem to have missed the homily on God's grace.
Wow! It's about time. Thanks to La Civiltà Cattolica for their truthful outing of the men who have taken over the catholic church in America. Now Good Catholic People of America get YOUR church in hand. Get rid of the pedophiles and those who try to control the lives of others - particularly women.
NOW is the time. Let's get America back from those who would control us for personal power and wealth and show the world what democracy really means. And for heaven's sake - and the sake of your lives and those of your children and grandchildren VOTE.
NOW is the time. Let's get America back from those who would control us for personal power and wealth and show the world what democracy really means. And for heaven's sake - and the sake of your lives and those of your children and grandchildren VOTE.
72
It's important to take a long view of the political shifts within the Catholic church, an institution that was already over a thousand years old before the U.S. even came into being. Right now, the Church is simply undergoing a corrective swing to the left, after the very long papacy of John Paul II, and his policy twin Benedict (XVI). Pope Francis is a man in a hurry, as he is 80 years old, and can't afford to waste years on incremental changes and polite talk. Call it shock therapy for the conservative wing of the church. But, they should relax! The pendulum will swing back in a century or two.
23
Assuming we are not digging out from under 6" of radioactive ash in a century--or even a decade--I am betting on a return of the Holy Spirit to Catholicism. Francis is a harbinger of that return as are the communities of American nuns who deliver care and love, looking at women's souls and not their uteri and tending to the poor.
7
Both sides are losing the contemplative elements of the Church. The conservatives are out of touch with social issues and their emphasis on abortion, not allowing women to give mass, marriage/divorce -- takes them away from the spirit of the law. The "left" is too concerned with social issues, outward service and activism and does not understand the impulse of the mystical and contemplative element of the Church, which really should be developed more so young people will come to understand the practice of a contemplative, rather than flock to Buddhism. I long to find Catholics who I can have this conversation with.
3
An ideal world would give us leaders combining the liberality and love of Pope Francis, the brains and drive of Merkel, and the charm and culture of Macron.
76
Yes, amen!
1
We did have one for a short time. President Obama.
10
Pope Benedict's resignation was not valid due to substantial error on his part - this makes Francis not the true pope but an anti-pope - this explains a lot! -- in only two or three instances in history has a Pope preached something against the Faith, and that on a single point (in an unofficial and non-binding manner), and was then corrected - interestingly, no wicked Pope has taught anything against the Faith - that shows how powerfully the papacy is protected against error by the Holy Spirit - but Francis is spewing heresy all the time - and then his policy of sidelining conservatives and promoting liberals - with this, he is destroying authentic traditional Catholic doctrine and practice (present in the Church throughout its history), and putting a politically correct substitute in its place (the liberals, both in the Church and the secular world, are cheering) - he is constructing a false church and promoting a false christ - we have to rely on the promise of Christ that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Catholic Church (Matthew 16:18).
1
I hope the likes of Mr. McCrea will get phased out like the rest of the old guard who want to go back to the days segregation and privilege for a few, blind faith and ignorance. The Catholic Church that I have belonged to my entire life has been one of inclusiveness, love and a desire to change the world for good. Pope Francis has been an inspiration. The right wing conservative American Catholics do not represent the entire American Catholic Church and I hope that no one tries to lump us all together. Progressive Catholics want a United States and world that truly follows Christ's instructions to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That means everyone, not just those who look like you and think like you.
6
So you're saying the College of Cardinals elected an anti-pope? How does that work?
9
Benedict's resignation was not the first time it has happened. It might be better described as an abdication. As for your assertion is was not valid, I would like to see your doctorate in church theology and law.
7
Even a casual reading of the new testament makes it clear that Jesus was a revolutionary; that he was killed because he upset the hard-line legalistic leaders of his time. His message was about love and not man-made rules not based on love. He would not recognize the American Jesus that the far right worships. Count how many times the poor are mentioned in the New Testament, and how often the poor are bashed by the American far right. The Real Jesus teaches us to value all lives, to avoid conflict, to not judge.
231
He was killed because what he preached was leading to insurrection against a vastly superior force, Rome. The insurrection eventually came and the country was destroyed with a 25% loss of life.
" Catholic/evangelical cooperation on religious freedom " Hello. If Chaput is referring to the incessant attempts to override the First Amendment, especially the "establishment clause", which protects all Americans FROM religion, there is, indeed "cooperation".
Time to tax ALL churches in the United States.
Time to tax ALL churches in the United States.
26
Thank-you Pope Francis. The conservatives call it liberalism. The rest of us call it Christianity, common sense, compassion, factual, logical and many, many more things. When Pope Francis moves to remove Notre Dame and all of its entities from the Catholic church, Catholicism will return to Christianity on which is was supposedly founded.
35
I am a Roman Catholic Midwest woman that has been dismayed and alienated by the conservative Catholic movement in the United States. I no longer tell people I'm Catholic, I say I'm a Liberal Catholic in order to differentiate myself from those that preach a doctrine that seems to hate the poor...and women...and gay people...and divorced people...and immigrants...and those that have had an abortion...and those that tell the truth about sexual abuse within the church.
I welcome Pope Francis' efforts to return the church to a place of mercy, compassion and inclusion. Conservatives may be the loudest American Catholics but I don't believe they are the majority, or the ones with the most compelling and resonant message. Hopefully a church based on love will emerge as the winner of the religious culture wars.
I welcome Pope Francis' efforts to return the church to a place of mercy, compassion and inclusion. Conservatives may be the loudest American Catholics but I don't believe they are the majority, or the ones with the most compelling and resonant message. Hopefully a church based on love will emerge as the winner of the religious culture wars.
178
I hear you, this is us, too. I stopped wearing my cross because it no longer represents Love.
3
The link about the RC vote was interesting because it showed that it basically followed general secular trends. Older, white voters went for Trump and younger, Western voters went for Clinton. I voted for Clinton because she was more competent, but personally know many Catholics voted for Trump or third party because Clinton was stridently pro-abortion and talking about repeal Hyde, etc. Obama used more nuanced words and won over Catholics. The US Bishops have a voting recommended list of considerations (without names) such as pro-life, pro social justice and pro environment. Since no one politician embodies all the recommendations, believers vote for whoever they want and justify it by thinking they voted for the person who does the least harm. (Pro-life democrats like Bob Casey would probably be closest to the recommendations.) http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/faithful-citizenship/forming-cons...
5
No one, Hillary Clinton included, is pro-abortion, much less stridently so. It is organizations such as the US Conference of Catholic Bishops that push such divisive nonsense into the churches and the public sphere. They are something other than Christian and the Pope knows it.
7
I have an opinion of Francis George from when he was Archbishop of Portland and meddled in an incident at the school where I worked. It is not positive.
3
The former Archbishop Francis George is deceased. The Pope is a different Francis and not from the U.S.
7
Conservative Catholics have one and only one overwhelming issue to follow and that is abortion. In that light they will always vote for the Republican party and never vote for the Democratic Party. Every election, here in the diocese of Phoenix, Bishop Olmsted sends the same order for all Catholics to vote Republican. This is done in the Sunday mass before the elections.
21
This is every bit as disturbing as the Russians attempting to sabotage the elections only more insidious because it exploits people like Fox News viewers who can't understand, or won't take the time to understand, issues beyond what is presented to them by extremely biased sources.
2
Shame!
3
No religious authority figure should tell anyone how to vote. It's a shame that people are willing to capitulate to their bishop and vote on a single issue. Try adding some intelligence to the next voting decision and weigh the integrity of the candidates as well as their positions on critical issues. Voting like sheep is what got us the most horrific and embarrassing president in modern times. Your Bishop Olmsted led his flock astray and harmed this country.
3
As a die-hard Roman Catholic I am CHEERING about Pope Francis and his willingness to be open about what the conservatives catholics are doing in the American Catholic church. Those Catholic values I learned from my father-- The entire social justice agenda as well as caring, tolerance, mercy, forgiveness, inclusion and respect for ALL people seem to be again at the forefront of catholicism under Francis' leadership. Those conservatives in powerful positions in America should get a clue!
412
Before Pope Francis came to us many Roman Catholics knew that the conservative catholics were becoming more powerful by the day....from cathedrals to smaller churches, the social justice teachings of Jesus were being swept aside by those valuing doctrine. I pray that they changes and the focus of Pope Francis will last. It's difficult not to be frightened of the right permeating every aspect of our world though, as we live with the madness of our "top-down" societies.
2
If Catholics in America are siding with Stephen Bannon then they do not echo the teachings of Jesus Christ.
178
The Vatican is not really liberal, but Francis is at least moving in the same direction as John XXIII by taking issue with the abominable Trump administration, unlike JP II. Most Catholics disagree with the Vatican on divorce, contraception, abortion, clerical celibacy, ordaining women, the need for church schools, etc, but at least it is critical of Trumpism.
26
JP II was dead long before the Trump administration.
2
The overall undeniable message of Catholicism is inclusion and love. The fact that so many American Catholics focus narrowly on sexual issues and excluding and judging people, either on technicalities, moral failings or because they come from poor backgrounds, is mind-boggling. If those are their true passions they shouldn't be Catholic, especially if they're not happy with the current Pope, who's actually acting like a Christian.
50
It is so timely, and as a believer, I say, maybe the workings of God, that Francis is the Pope of our times. For all the negative and "anti-socialist" comments in this section, I say, as an anthropologist, that "religious leaders" in all civilizations, were expected to, and indeed filled the role of bringing hope and inspiration and humanity to their communities. This is exactly what Francis is doing. That the Catholic leadership, in the US doesn't understand, or accept, this vision, is proof of their collusion(yes, yet another collusion) with the greedy and entitled ruling class that Donald Trump represents and embodies. They should be ashamed of themselves. But religion can only do so much. These are apostles who are as secular as can be. Deal with the sexual scandals first, then EARN respect to be heard and heeded to. This is so much like what what happened in Germany before WWII. Does the Church want to go that way? Does it not learn from its mistakes?
22
No, the Church does not learn from its mistakes, and there are countless of examples of that. You will be sorely disillusioned the rest of your life if you keep expecting that.
The role of a religious leader is not to bring hope and inspiration, but to explain the word of their god so that their followers do not stray into damnation.
As a gay man who grew up in the Catholic church, I feel no sympathy for the right wing Catholics who want to keep their backwards ideologies about gays and abortion at the center of the church. The American right wing has had too much power over the last four decades and it has turned them into would be jihadists, not to mention hypocrites who embrace the appalling Donald Trump. Pope Francis is rescuing them from themselves.
316
Well said!
3
The arch-conservative Catholics continue to double down on their disrespect for the Pope, the hard right political positions they've adopted, their disdain for those who don't agree with them, and their adoption of "prosperity" Catholicism. But don't worry, these are the seeds of their own (and the Evangelical's) destruction they're planting as young Americans turn away from organized religion -- turned off or dismayed or just plain disgusted by their lack of compassion, their bastardization of Christianity, and the political screeds. And as their numbers dwindle, their influence will wane -- until they are seen as just another group of minority wackos to be ignored.
14
I could unleash so very many thoughts in response to this, but I just honestly can't get past this one. Conservative Catholics.... were upset by the Pope... because he favored connecting our society with Latin America rather than forcibly separating the two.
Oh my word, that is comedy gold. I needed that laugh today. Just throw in a Ron Howard voiceover, and it's like watching Arrested Development.
You're five hundred years too late to that protest, guys. Luckily, it's way easier to find heliocentric truthers now, so that should get your mind of things.
Oh my word, that is comedy gold. I needed that laugh today. Just throw in a Ron Howard voiceover, and it's like watching Arrested Development.
You're five hundred years too late to that protest, guys. Luckily, it's way easier to find heliocentric truthers now, so that should get your mind of things.
11
Madison, Wis. Pre-election Sunday, 2016: Bishop Morlino pulled out the stops to influence the Roman Catholic faithful to vote Republican in his homily on the Sunday before election day. He used the occasion of confirmation of young people at a church in Middleton, Wis., to air his views that there were two political parties in the United States. "The party of Life, and the party of death." Of course he suggested to choose the party of Life intimating support for the Republican Party. If other pulpits rang out with similar messages in the Sunday before the last election, think of the impact on heavily Roman Catholic states like, Wisconsin, Michigan Pennsylvania - Wait a minute- that's what put Trump over the top in the electoral college. that could easily sway a few hundred thousand votes or dampen support for a candidate, ostensibly from the party Morlino sought to attack.
Add in Hillary's hubris and he Russian hackers and "alternative fact campaign," the arch conservative church and the Kremlin unwittingly conspired to scuttle Hillary and install the idiot president we have seen he past seven months.
Pope Francis - HELP - Cleanse these open sores of hostile, hateful thinking!!!
Add in Hillary's hubris and he Russian hackers and "alternative fact campaign," the arch conservative church and the Kremlin unwittingly conspired to scuttle Hillary and install the idiot president we have seen he past seven months.
Pope Francis - HELP - Cleanse these open sores of hostile, hateful thinking!!!
103
I am from Bishop Morlino's diocese, and have seen it. This is absolutely correct.
19
Other readers have shared similar stories. One wonders if the tax exempt status of these churches should be revoked as they have tended to blur the lines between church and state to the extent that these churches function as political clubs???
3
Tracy Will tells how her Bishop Molino in Madison, WI openly advocated the election of President Trump. For a long time Church leaders avoided becoming enmeshed in politics in this way, and the bishops rode herd on their pastors to get them to do the same. This was partly to avoid loss of the Church's tax exempt status, but partly also to avoid alienating people like Tracy and me. But as Tracy testifies, in 2016 this was all cast aside, and Church leaders pulled out most of the stops to encourage their faithful to vote for--of all people!--Donald Trump. I say "most" of the stops, because this guidance generally came in the form of helpful "guidelines" on how to vote that clearly pointed in the direction of the Republicans and Trump but usually stopped just short of mentioning them by name.
This would all be much easier if the All Mighty had a decent editor when the Bible was written...there would be no confusion over what a Christian should and shouldn't be and should and should not do.
That said, this is probably the only time I'll agree with anything that comes out of the Vatican.
That said, this is probably the only time I'll agree with anything that comes out of the Vatican.
4
The "All Mighty" shouldn't need an editor. If (she) wants us to understand her direction, (s)he should give it to us in a way that we mortals can understand without "interpretation" by people who have agendas.
1
"This would all be much easier if the All Mighty had a decent editor when the Bible was written..."
Or at least issued documentation updates ocassionally.
Or at least issued documentation updates ocassionally.
1
Pope Francis will need to facilitate a few 'retirements into a life of prayer and meditation' on the part of the American bishopric.... there are too many in that bunch that need to be put out to pasture.
If someone like Francis had been made pope after John 23rd...I might have stayed in the Catholic church....but it became too political and too focused on its' own power instead of taking care of 'the least amongst us'.
If someone like Francis had been made pope after John 23rd...I might have stayed in the Catholic church....but it became too political and too focused on its' own power instead of taking care of 'the least amongst us'.
28
Another "he said this, she said that" article of the "let's not get wet" NYT. Francis' position is consonant with the Constitution and the separation of Church from State. "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's"
The right wing anti-social success in the areas of abortion and diversity are a flagrant violation, not only of common sense and scripture, but of the Constitution.
The right wing anti-social success in the areas of abortion and diversity are a flagrant violation, not only of common sense and scripture, but of the Constitution.
21
Though I'm an atheist with no belief in either a personal god or the devil, I must say that Satan as a metaphor is applicable here. Over the millennia, Catholic teachings emphasize how easily Satan (evil) can insinuate himself into the mindsets of those who regard themselves as pure and destined for heaven. This is an excellent example.
13
The Pope speaks truth to American political/religious power. He sees the Catholic Church, led by a small cadre of White men, following another small cadre of White men, Christian Evangelicals into the same hate and xenophobia that Christian Evangelicals have wallowed in for the past 20 years or so, and he wonders as I do, as many religious and secular citizens do, who took the Christ out of American Christianity?
Where are the Beatitudes? Love your brother? Not today, they are too busy hating their brothers as the "others".
American religious White folk are so focused on eye for an eye, and other Old Testament bromides, that they have lost the good news that Jesus brought to save the world.
Viewing the primacy of the Old Testament over the good news of the New Testament here in America, the Pope has understandably become concerned.
Me too, because it is not the new deal promised by the coming of the Son of God that Christians are turning away from, it is the mish mash of politicized, generic hate preached every Sunday from the pulpits of these "Old Testament Christians" that have repelled many disillusioned Christians and concerned so many more.
You can't have Christianity without the Christ.
He is noticeably absent in the Churches of America.
The Pope is right.
Where are the Beatitudes? Love your brother? Not today, they are too busy hating their brothers as the "others".
American religious White folk are so focused on eye for an eye, and other Old Testament bromides, that they have lost the good news that Jesus brought to save the world.
Viewing the primacy of the Old Testament over the good news of the New Testament here in America, the Pope has understandably become concerned.
Me too, because it is not the new deal promised by the coming of the Son of God that Christians are turning away from, it is the mish mash of politicized, generic hate preached every Sunday from the pulpits of these "Old Testament Christians" that have repelled many disillusioned Christians and concerned so many more.
You can't have Christianity without the Christ.
He is noticeably absent in the Churches of America.
The Pope is right.
77
I'm not a Christian, but I agree with your sentiment, and would modify it for universal application to say, "You cannot have faith without love and acceptance, and you cannot have ethical behavior (for non-believers) without ethics."
3
Thankfully, this Pope is LEFT.
1
Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI appointed most of the current Catholic hierarchy, and so many of those bishops readily became warriors in the culture wars, unfortunately, that have ripped the country apart.
The approach of these cultural warrior in proclaiming the message of the Gospel can be readily contrasted with that of Pope Francis by considering what Francis had to say in his "Joy of the Gospel," his apostolic exhortation published in 2013, about abortion.
In this document, Francis mentions abortion only one time, stating clearly that it is not "progressive" to resolve problems by eliminating human life, but continuing his reflection by lamenting our failure as a society people of faith to "adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?" (http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/p...
Contrast this approach of Francis to the many statements issued by the American Catholic bishops in the last 30 years, especially in their Forming Consciences For Faithful Citizenship document, which condemns abortion and makes abortion the primary issue to consider, and for many Catholics the sole issue to consider, when voting for a political candidate.
The approach of these cultural warrior in proclaiming the message of the Gospel can be readily contrasted with that of Pope Francis by considering what Francis had to say in his "Joy of the Gospel," his apostolic exhortation published in 2013, about abortion.
In this document, Francis mentions abortion only one time, stating clearly that it is not "progressive" to resolve problems by eliminating human life, but continuing his reflection by lamenting our failure as a society people of faith to "adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?" (http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/apost_exhortations/documents/p...
Contrast this approach of Francis to the many statements issued by the American Catholic bishops in the last 30 years, especially in their Forming Consciences For Faithful Citizenship document, which condemns abortion and makes abortion the primary issue to consider, and for many Catholics the sole issue to consider, when voting for a political candidate.
30
Considering how very few people in the US actually need an abortion whereas many need health care, decent jobs, affordable childcare, safe neighborhoods, education one wonders how the RC conservative bishops who supported conservative values can call themselves "Christian".
15
The Church has come a long way. It was 1992 before the Pope apologized for the way Galileo was treated. I remember the headline: Late 20th century Pope apologizes for Church's condemnation of early 17th century science. Way to catch up, Christians. But by some of their own examples they now see the danger of religious extremism, especially when tied to the state, and rightly sound the alarm. To paraphrase Montesquieu, one of the philosophers who inspired many of America's founders: It is not the multiplicity of beliefs that causes conflict but the intolerant spirit of any one that compels them to try to arrogate supremacy. And that is just what is happening in America now.
38
Thank you for this article. I am not Catholic but I do admire Pope Francis. Now even more. And I had no idea Bannon was Catholic. Oh well, we Jews have our own shonde with Jarvanka.
19
"Ivanked." And I think Bannon is about as Catholic as they are Orthodox. Sitting in a shul/church/mosque doesn't make you a good person any more than sitting in your garage makes you a car.
13
Great analogy, I love it and with your consent use it. thank you
The Sedevacantist's, seem to be who this Pope really opposes. That there has not been a true Pope in decades. The church's message is being lost in all the rancor. She needs to shed the confusion, pronto.
1
Historically, the Church helped bring the World, at least western civilization, centuries of darkness culminating in hate-filled, counter-productive crusades. Pope Francis may yet stem the tide of American Catholics who are being duped by politicized religious issues into joining the present crusade led by the plutocrats and fascists.
18
I would like to state that Pope Francis is not truly a Christian. As stated in the article, the Pope has criticized capitalism many times. He believes that the best type of an economy is socialism. Here is why the Pope is wrong to believe so, according to his own beliefs. Firstly, all Christians, like myself, regardless of denomination, must respect and follow the Ten Commandments. They are the basic principles of having a Christian life. Socialism violets three of the Ten Commandments. It makes government into god, it suggests that you can steal from people, and it states that it is good to be covetous of what your neighbor has. The Pope truly would state that capitalism is a terrible idea if he is not a Christian.
Now, in regard to Pope Francis’ associates, they stated not to take the Bible literally, saying if you do so, it is like jihad. Firstly, the word jihad has been deterred to make it sound that it only applies to Muslim extremists. However, the definition of jihad from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary states, “a crusade for a principle or belief.” Therefore, Christians should have a jihad for their belief. Jesus himself states, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation” (Mark 16:15). Unlike what Pope Francis’ associates said, it is not immoral to take the Bible literally, because that is what any Christian is supposed to do. This is not just my opinion on the subject, this is a necessity to be a true Christian, and the Pope should know that.
Now, in regard to Pope Francis’ associates, they stated not to take the Bible literally, saying if you do so, it is like jihad. Firstly, the word jihad has been deterred to make it sound that it only applies to Muslim extremists. However, the definition of jihad from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary states, “a crusade for a principle or belief.” Therefore, Christians should have a jihad for their belief. Jesus himself states, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation” (Mark 16:15). Unlike what Pope Francis’ associates said, it is not immoral to take the Bible literally, because that is what any Christian is supposed to do. This is not just my opinion on the subject, this is a necessity to be a true Christian, and the Pope should know that.
You can be whatever you believe -- in private, in your church. In America we have FREEDOM OF RELIGION. That means that nobody can impose their beliefs, or their own morality, on members of any religion (even their own, should their leaders "stray"), or no religion, at all. All beliefs are "jihadist", if their followers try to impose them on non-believers. I'm glad you have such faith in your religion -- if you truly believe that your Pope is straying -- you can do what others have done in the past -- start a new religion, with a more congenial leader.
3
Guess what, you are not the person who gets to judge the piety of the Pope. Either you reject his authority, in which he should not matter to you, or the pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals. Perhaps it is peculiar to my translations of the New Testament but I do not recall in any of Jesus of Nazareth's statements on the 'poor' the modifier 'deserving' or 'undeserving' being used.By Mr Victor's 10 commandments yardstick Capitalists raise money to the status of a god. I do find it quite amusing that Victor claims to have the authority to condemn the Christianity of Pope Francis. This is a quite Protestant idea and is of no usefulness in evaluating a Catholic. I do not think Victor understand this tho.....
10
it may not be immoral to take the Bible literally, but in doing so one makes egregious theological and historical errors. Scholars spend their lives reviewing translations of the Bible (all Bibles in English are translations of translations) because we grown in understanding ancient languages There is no direct and exact modern understanding of many ancient colloquial words and their concepts. For instance, take the 19th Century concept of "homosexuality." If you believe that the Bible exactly forbids homosexuality and that ancient words translate directly to that, then you are saying that God projected a 19th Century concept and word into Ancient scribes. Then all this Biblical student can say is that's some God you got there!
3
Francis should make Chaput kaput.
13
Thankful for our Pope and what he has doing to bring the Church doors more open and to walk with everyone, as Jesus did!
21
It is interesting that this article doesn't include the title of the article it references -- which is: "Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism in the USA: A surprising ecumenism" (Google it and read the original -- it's worth it!)
The original article is as much, if not more, a condemnation of the American right wing "Christians" (a term that is more self-proclaimed than merited as they have usurped the title but don't "walk the talk", except in the distorted way they have interpreted it.) than solely the conservative American Catholics.
Some critics point out errors in the details of the original article. But, from a big picture viewpoint, it is a hammer that hits the nail squarely on the head(s).
The gist of the article in the Vatican publication is that religion/spirituality transcends any special interest group -- up to and including political parties and even nations. We are called to live to a "higher way" -- and respect the rights of others to do the same.
Amen to that!
The original article is as much, if not more, a condemnation of the American right wing "Christians" (a term that is more self-proclaimed than merited as they have usurped the title but don't "walk the talk", except in the distorted way they have interpreted it.) than solely the conservative American Catholics.
Some critics point out errors in the details of the original article. But, from a big picture viewpoint, it is a hammer that hits the nail squarely on the head(s).
The gist of the article in the Vatican publication is that religion/spirituality transcends any special interest group -- up to and including political parties and even nations. We are called to live to a "higher way" -- and respect the rights of others to do the same.
Amen to that!
27
How many more times must American church leaders be confronted with their lies and actions to 'protect the church' concerning the pedophilia in their ranks before they realize they are driving parishioners away? How many more parishes must be shuttered and sold off to pay for the lawsuits? Nothing will change unless the current church leadership here and in the Vatican is turned out, but as strong as Francis is, that is a multi generational task which none of us will live to see. The rock Peter founded his church on continues to crumble.
12
These fights among religions are why I am no longer a Catholic. Right wing, left wing, conservative, liberal. - these have no place in organized religion. I am out of it! I have learned to commune with the universe and nature and that makes me happy.
13
I actually gave some thought to making a foray back into my Catholic roots when Pope Francis took his place on the world stage and shared a version of the gospel that I could relate to. I checked out the webpage of the nearest Catholic Church and to my horror it contained a pastoral letter encouraging the congregation to accept the ways of Donald Trump instead of acting on their own moral perceptions about what is right. Last time I paid attention to the Catholic Churches in my community they were providing sanctuary to Central American refugees fleeing the wars in their countries. Although I am deeply drawn to the idea of joining with others who share a common cosmology, it's clearly just wishful thinking for me to search for this experience in the religion of my childhood.
23
These ultra-conservative Catholics and Christians, having been seduced by politics and its spiritually degrading illusions of worldly power, are now possessed by the same vile spirit which drove the Crusaders and the Inquisitors to slaughter and torture in the name of God. They exercise a passion for dividing the human family into Us versus Them; they pervert the message of Christ to support their desire to establish a kingdom of their own in THIS world--fraudulently, even blasphemously--under the supposed aegis of Christ, of God, whose kingdom is NOT of this world. So consider "Church Militant": the name itself reveals their lust for conflict and war. What could be less Christlike?
45
I agree. Power hungry, arrogant, self righteous.. the ultra-conservative of any religion is an insult to the religion. With Christianity, to me, they are truly blasphemers who are going to be quite surprised on judgement day. I'll have my own issues to face, but being a hate filled person who wants to force their way on others in the name of Jesus Christ will not be one of them. Thank God.
15
Conservative US Christians - both Roman Catholic and Evangelical - would be well advised to reacquaint themselves with the New testament. The US conservative bishops and religious leaders seem to be more enamored of temporal power than of love for the people. This of course is not new to the Roman Catholic Church but perhaps Pope Francis will live long enough to bring the Church back to the goals of Vatican II and make the Church "Christian" again! As a Roman Catholic who grew up in Canada post Vatican II it has always surprised me how bigoted and repressive the US church has been. I don't understand why this is so but I have to assume it has something to do with the feeling that many US catholics have that they have been unfairly treated in the USA. So called "Catholic countries" in the rest of the world seem more willing to adapt their beliefs to the times and are more likely to adopt socially liberal views.
25
Church attendance at Mass on Sundays is nearly non-existent in Europe. European Catholicism is in need of revival. The Pope has bigger concerns than North America. Church attendance in Canada is beginning to slide toward that of Europe. ... It will be interesting to observe the Pope's next moves for the Church in USA.
2
In this decade, the American Catholic Church has become increasingly focused on "preserving life from conception to natural death" as the only thing that matters in politics. As I can attest, that phrase comes up in the prayers of the faithful pretty much every Sunday during an election year.
Never mind if the politicians they are tacitly supporting then proceed to also do everything they can to destroy the social safety net, the very thing that protects "the least of their brethren". As long as those politicians support restrictions on abortion, it seems like anything else they do or don't do is irrelevant.
The American Church seems to be forgetting that Matthew 25:40 was not a request, but was a command. From that one guy -- who was he again, name starts with J --you know, the one whose words are printed in red for some reason in many versions of the New Testament.
Never mind if the politicians they are tacitly supporting then proceed to also do everything they can to destroy the social safety net, the very thing that protects "the least of their brethren". As long as those politicians support restrictions on abortion, it seems like anything else they do or don't do is irrelevant.
The American Church seems to be forgetting that Matthew 25:40 was not a request, but was a command. From that one guy -- who was he again, name starts with J --you know, the one whose words are printed in red for some reason in many versions of the New Testament.
20
So refreshing to read this article about the new leadership at the Vatican. I wholly support Francis' crusade against greed and exploitation of the less fortunate in society, for the benefit of the wealthy, as well as his stance against environmental destruction and hate-inspired exclusionary policies. He is the counterbalance to the depressing, polar-opposite views and policies that endlessly pour out of the Bannon/Trump White House. I am a lapsed American Catholic, and for over 30 years have been determined to avoid any affiliation with that institution. Francis is the first pope to make me reconsider that stance.
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Unfortunately the current pope has stated it is settled that women will never serve as priests. Decades after studies have shown that scripture proves women were deacons and priests in the early church, it is still being debated whether to allow women to serve as deacons. I was thinking Pope Francis thought settling that matter (and maybe that is why women are not yet approved as deacons) was a way to hold off the fundamentalist faction in the church while being progressive in other ways but this article shows that fundamentalism is still a threat.
2
Organized religion is just a ruse to try to control people for personal wealth, Leo. Please stay lapsed until catholics, evangelicals and all other organized religion follows our U.S. Constitution that requires separation of church and state - until they keep their religion in their homes and places of worship and OUT of the lives of others.
2
I was raised in a conservative, Catholic family and originally hail from the Rust Belt. Though I am no expert on the American brand of Conservative Catholic Thought, I regard some of my family members - imbued with what seems to be a toxic mixture of political divisiveness and vitriol - as bellwethers for the movement.
It seems that some Conservative Catholics are so obsessed with the letter of the law that they are blind to the spirit in which it was written (Conservative Catholic rebuttal: "Such statements reek of liberalism and moral relativism; a slippery slope!"). This feeling led me to shun Catholicism in favor of the Episcopalian Church and its more open and inclusive leadership style.
Enter Pope Francis. He has given me hope and made me feel as if perhaps there is a place for me in the Catholic Church once again. I know that I am not alone in these sentiments; many millennials feel as I do, and if Conservative Catholic Leadership is not open to reasonable changes in its internal policy, it may not have much of a flock to lead in thirty-or-so years.
It seems that some Conservative Catholics are so obsessed with the letter of the law that they are blind to the spirit in which it was written (Conservative Catholic rebuttal: "Such statements reek of liberalism and moral relativism; a slippery slope!"). This feeling led me to shun Catholicism in favor of the Episcopalian Church and its more open and inclusive leadership style.
Enter Pope Francis. He has given me hope and made me feel as if perhaps there is a place for me in the Catholic Church once again. I know that I am not alone in these sentiments; many millennials feel as I do, and if Conservative Catholic Leadership is not open to reasonable changes in its internal policy, it may not have much of a flock to lead in thirty-or-so years.
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They are not enthralled by all of the "letter of the law" aspects of the bible. In Matt 25, Jesus tells his disciples that their entry into heaven is contingent upon how they treat the poor and the homeless. Jesus is very clear that if you do not help all of the poor, naked, homeless that you know of, then you will not be with him in heaven, but spend eternity in hell. No where else is the Christian doctrine more clear. This was not a parable or a suggestion. He states treat the poor well go to heaven, not hell. No mention of abortion or divorce as punishable by hell. If they were concerned about the letter of the law, they would be much more loving and giving similair to the holy father.
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The Episcopal Church has been blessed by Roman Catholic migrants.
3
Chaput is an increasingly isolated voice for himself only who prefers adherence to his truth, his truth rather than inclusiveness and welcoming as hallmarks of the faithful Catholic. His negativity can be scary for a prelate, given that his job description includes shepherding all in his Archdiocese not only those who agree with his every pronouncement. He differs from Spadaro and Figueroa in one key way - he's useless. Continue to pray for him.
5
I am 66 years old and raised as a Catholic. I returned to the church 10 years ago. I remember going to church daily, but found it difficult to find the front door, there were so many crosses for unborn children (this is not a metaphor).
I felt the church was more concerned about abortion than the poor.
I loved the nuns on a bus and their message.
Pope Francis gives me hope. Can someone tell me what is wrong with Catholics doing yoga? We have lost our way all in the name of Jesus Christ, who some think they know so well
Denise
I felt the church was more concerned about abortion than the poor.
I loved the nuns on a bus and their message.
Pope Francis gives me hope. Can someone tell me what is wrong with Catholics doing yoga? We have lost our way all in the name of Jesus Christ, who some think they know so well
Denise
24
Search out, it is part of their religious rituals to whatever god they bow to so by doing this with or without knowledge is what God said , always stay totally away from any cultic religious acts that I have not given, and it is a gateway to the secular cultic religions they have. Read where God used the issue in the desert to stop and clean out all who were not listening and died unless they looked on the staff Moses set up by Gods order.... He said to stay away from all secular cultic groups to stay pure, we know how that ended,,,,
1
What gives him to tell us to vote for democratic, socialist who want to destroy our nation. He needs to look in the mirror and ask for forgiveness for all of what has been going on for decades. Christ never became involved in the political system and gave all commands as what to do. This group has so much cultic actions, Pope is never wrong, Mary is equal to Christ, sins absolved only by priests, plus all the evil they still do not eliminate hiding perverts and on it goes.
Last they say to allow these in yet they have none in and walls, what hypocrisy is in this cult...
Last they say to allow these in yet they have none in and walls, what hypocrisy is in this cult...
I wish the Catholic church would stay out of politics and concentrate instead on fixing the problems that exist within the church. Until there is meaningful progress on the rampant pedophilia, the church has no right to intervene in anything, anywhere else. Jesus was all too clear about the status of children in God's view - why won't the church of Peter abide by it?
4
It will be very interesting if we see a split in the RCC. I'm reminded of the split when there was two popes long ago.
Jesus would love Francis.
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Jesus loves Francis, no "would" about it.
So do I.
So do I.
9
Yeah...WWJD? Funny how we now have a resurgence of wealth as a sign of godliness in so called Christians in the little d and Paula whatever, his spiritual guide. The spirit is bankrupt when one thinks only of one's monetary gain...there is a place for these folks when they die. Jesus would remind them that it's in the treatment of 'the least of these' that those gain real riches, not golden toilets...of course this really is the current false Christian's view...and yes they are false in their words and deeds....as they will be judged.
1
I thought Jesus loved everybody.
Maybe Pope Francis can save the Catholic Church from the angry, crazed racists who have taken over the Southern Baptists.
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The Southern Baptist was literally formed in protest of northern Baptists who were opposed to slavery.
4
They are a long way from that now.
Viva Pope Francis. Clean out the mean-spirited deadwood in US Catholic leadership. Get rid of the conservatives. You are a better steward than they are.
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If god were really intelligent, he would spare us this nonsense.
1
It's refreshing to see "the Pope's mouthpiece" going after the American Catholic hierarchy rather than American nuns. (Under Benedict the only people who were thought to be advocating "dangerous" ideas were the nuns).
Mr. Faggioli, the professor of historical theology at Villanova says American Catholicism has fallen into the hands of the religious right and he's correct. This didn't start with the Trump administration and Steve Bannon. It was already in full swing during the George W. Bush administration when my parish - like most in America - fervently supported an unsupportable war that went against Catholic teaching. It grew stronger during the Obama administration when the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops came out in full force against the ACA because they didn't want employers to be made to pay for birth control. (They're blind to lives saved by access to health care even in the face of church teaching on the dignity of life at all stages. Birth control is a hill to die on apparently). And so it continues today.
These reasons and more are why I left the Church. It's corrupt at all levels - in this country at least. And I have my doubts about the rest of the world. (See Ireland: full scale sex abuse scandal a decade after ours was revealed in the U.S.)
Mr. Faggioli, the professor of historical theology at Villanova says American Catholicism has fallen into the hands of the religious right and he's correct. This didn't start with the Trump administration and Steve Bannon. It was already in full swing during the George W. Bush administration when my parish - like most in America - fervently supported an unsupportable war that went against Catholic teaching. It grew stronger during the Obama administration when the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops came out in full force against the ACA because they didn't want employers to be made to pay for birth control. (They're blind to lives saved by access to health care even in the face of church teaching on the dignity of life at all stages. Birth control is a hill to die on apparently). And so it continues today.
These reasons and more are why I left the Church. It's corrupt at all levels - in this country at least. And I have my doubts about the rest of the world. (See Ireland: full scale sex abuse scandal a decade after ours was revealed in the U.S.)
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For all the Trumpian Catholics out there, decide. Are you with the Holy Father, or with the unholy Conman??? Choose wisely. I have NO skin in this game, I'm not religious. But, you claim to be so. Put up, or shut up.
20
Bringing religion into politics simply corrupts the religion. Religious appeals against gay marriage and abortion may seem to be based entirely on religious arguments - but so were the religious appeals in favor of slavery and preventing women from owning property. Certainly, the activists were able to come up with religious justifications for their stances, but rather than being drawn from religion, they were simply using religion as an excuse to justify their political feelings.
14
@ Max 'religious justifications for their stances' how true! Have we learned nothing? and the arguments continue..... What happened to the separation of religion & governing?
1
As a non-Catholic I find it amusing that now the Catholic right-wingers are accusing the Pope of anti-Americanism after decades of those same Righter-than-thou bigots hanging on to every word of more conservative popes as justification for their Pharisaical opinions on social and religious matters.
We finally get a pope who aligns with the compassion shown repeatedly by Jesus, and suddenly the Church is Anti-American? Would Christ have deported undocumented Catholics because they were Mexican?
What's next? Will they start claiming Christ was actually born in Egypt (or perhaps Kenya), and demand to see His birth certificate?
We finally get a pope who aligns with the compassion shown repeatedly by Jesus, and suddenly the Church is Anti-American? Would Christ have deported undocumented Catholics because they were Mexican?
What's next? Will they start claiming Christ was actually born in Egypt (or perhaps Kenya), and demand to see His birth certificate?
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Amen to Pope Francis and the writers of this article. With religion being used as a political billy-club in the US lately, it is refreshing to see an authoritative position on the true basis of why religion exists in the first place. (PS - why, as of this comment, are there only two others about this article? Come on, spiritual non-conservatives, show some support!)
6
Bravo for Pope Francis. Maybe the Catholic Church now has a true Christian at its helm. It seems that this Pope is finally trying to bring the contemporary Roman Catholic Church into the 21st Century by rejecting the hateful ideas and rhetoric of the so-called "conservative" Catholics in America. those who have joined with the hate-filled Protestant Evangelicals in demonizing sexual orientation, gender identity and anything that they don't understand which doesn't fit their personal idea of what makes a good Christian, those who would crucify Jesus again if he returned today because his ideas don't fit their mean-spirited concepts of Christianity. I wish this Pope well in trying to Christianize the American Catholic Church. But just as the Dixiecrats left the Democratic Party to join the racists in the Republican Party. the so-called Conservative Christians in the Catholic Church will leave the Church for those hate-filled Protestant churches. The Catholic Church in America may diminish in size but will grow in godliness, while the reverse is happening to the evangelical churches that now embrace the hate instead of true Christian values.
23
Catholics should be more like Jesus. Jesus was considered a 'liberal', 'radical' figure in His time (that's why the 'political elite at the time -- The Roman and the Jewish authorities approved of His crucifixion).
He is a liberal because He freed all of us from the bondage of sin. He also implored us to 'love one another' and be 'open-minded'. There's nothing 'conservative' about that.
He is a liberal because He freed all of us from the bondage of sin. He also implored us to 'love one another' and be 'open-minded'. There's nothing 'conservative' about that.
27
You're right, there's nothing conservative about a man that didn't work or support himself.
1
He might have been 'radical' for his time but I doubt its the same as what you consider radical
1
I too believe that Pope Francis is a true disciple of Christ and humanity. Those who call themselves Christian, who associate with a man who called an entire people racist, who sleeps comfortably while thousands of families are terrorized by ICE agents, who says that if you are gay or transgender you don't belong or are somewhat inhuman, and who thinks healthcare is a privilege for those who can afford it, who is anti-abortion but takes funding away from life saving programs for the poor in America and the poor worldwide---this is a Christian? Where is the love?
26
"HARD LINE" Catholics - I don't think I'd call them that. A hard line Roman Catholic believes in the Gospels, Beatitudes, Forgiveness, not the God of Abraham, Fire and Brimstone exclusionism. St Francis of Assisi is my vision of a "hard line" Catholic. Nothing has driven away more Catholics than the hard line self righteous hierarchy.
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@Paul de Silva Conservative "right" Catholics aka Charismatic Catholicism = God of Abraham exclusionism!
1
Time to start dropping the tax hammer on these ultra-right religious factions. Wasn't that the deal? No taxes if you keep church/state separated. No wonder few under 30 are interested in participating in these authoritarian religio-political organizations in the US. Chaput has been a right-wing activist for decades. Disgraceful even to the pope.
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Of course, Two-Corinthians-short-of-a-Bible* covfefe has instead been trying to "destroy" the Johnson Amendment that sustains that separation, so that friends of his like Jerry Falwell Jr. can hate-preach and promote the wrong wing on the public dole even more.
Francis needs to fight even harder against this and firmly say, "If you hate, you're no Catholic." A "who am I to judge" stance is noble, but the GOP-Christ complex only takes advantage of noble—it's how they win.
*thank you, SNL
Francis needs to fight even harder against this and firmly say, "If you hate, you're no Catholic." A "who am I to judge" stance is noble, but the GOP-Christ complex only takes advantage of noble—it's how they win.
*thank you, SNL
2
You can't 'drop the tax hammer' on a faction. Its unfair and probably illegal. To get what you want you have to remove the church exemption for all religions. Which I don't have an issue with.
2
Christianity as a whole continues to lose ground as a result of an arrogant belligerency that resembles nothing so much as the principle of jihad. Could the church I left decades ago be returning to a belief in the power of love?
13
Liberal Catholics like myself have watched for decades as the conservatives in the Church dominated the public profile of Catholicism. It's about time. This is long overdue, in my humble opinion.
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As an atheist, I love this Pope. Now if only he would allow marriage and women to be equal in the hierarchy.
22
In Matthew 22:21 (KJV) Jesus said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." If we don't understand this verse, or if we do understand it but choose to ignore it, we are at great risk of using politics to impose our faith-derived ideas on others.
10
Thank God for Pope Francis! The Catholic Church has a dark history of meddling in temporal matters dating back to Innocent III when popes were members of the Italian nobility and viewed themselves as arbiters over European politics. They conducted themselves as Uber kings, directing armies, instigating crusades against heretics and Islam and generally acting in ways antithetical to Christianity. Francis is returning us to the days and common sense of John XXIII.
20
There's a difference between politics and theology. Pope Francis may be doing a great job as a politician - reaching out to the non-Christian majority in the intelligentsia, for example, and emphasizing Catholic social teaching. But that's not the same thing as having a coherent and consistent theology. This article focuses on the political competition within the Church, but there is a deeper debate about the theology of Pope Francis, which seems - at best - to be incoherent and one of "muddling through."
3
Trump is just like Jesus.
Like when Jesus said, turn the other cheek. And give away your wealth. Trump is exactly like that, not some stingy miser or a guy who has to have the last word.
And for the ultra-conservatives, he's only been married 3 times. That's only 2 more than your supposed to have been and 3 more than Jesus!
Like when Jesus said, turn the other cheek. And give away your wealth. Trump is exactly like that, not some stingy miser or a guy who has to have the last word.
And for the ultra-conservatives, he's only been married 3 times. That's only 2 more than your supposed to have been and 3 more than Jesus!
6
Pope Francis has been very definite and outspoken in his opposition to abortion. He differs from the last two popes in nothing except style.
1
All through human history religious organizations have too often aligned themselves with the forces of darkness by condemning those who tried to bring enlightenment to the human condition. One only needs to remember the Crusades, the Inquisition, priests and preachers railing against civil rights and Islamist extremism to name only a few. I always have found it interesting that those who profess to be so pious and "Christian" are the same individuals who support the political right and their he enlightened view of people and politics.
6
Good to finally see a Pope who gets it. The ultraconservative right-wing has dominated the American Catholic hierarchy for far too long.
16
In my mind His Holiness has moved to slowly in removing the malcontent far right Bishops and Cardinals from positions of influence. Burke and Chaput should be removed...not just shuffled around. Hopefully he will begin moving more quickly to reinvigorate Roman Catholicism worldwide.
13
Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air in the world.
18
There's a good reason why Pope Francis is so well loved by millions. He extends love. That's the true foundation of the church. The ultra-right opposition, ruled by the ego, is the devil in disguise.
71
It's about time. Callista Gingrich, ambassador to the Holy See, what a joke. Francis, put her down in the catacombs. A little time of reflection would do her some good.
30
When I was young the Catholic church resembled the religion of Pope Francis. It stressed inclusion and had disdain for exclusion. Especially since John Paul II, the church has changed into a vehicle for hate of the other, they claim to be outside the faith. This outside the faith idea is the defining characteristic of ancient religions that today define extreme right wing sects. Hopefully Francis will be successful in promoting inclusion that goes beyond even the inclusion of the church of my youth.
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As a liberal American Catholic, all I can say is glory hallelujah. The poor, hungry, homeless, marginalized and suffering have been much ignored by the conservative doctrines that place ending abortion and same-sex marriage above all else. Another thing I have noticed about zealous conservative Catholics is their eager insistence on restoration of the historical trappings of Catholicism, as if the true heart of the teachings of Jesus lay in ruthless suppression of the power of women and rote obedience to hierarchy. Nothing could be further from the message of the Gospels.
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The best thing that has happened to the Catholic Religion in particular and too all religions in general is the elevation of Pope Francis. He is the true moral leader of the world. Pope Francis remembers what his job is, to take care of the world's poor, to use the Church's vast resources to feed the hungry, not the Cardinals who are impressed wit the self-importance. He is a humble and astute leader. Pope Francis is correct in replacing those who do not follow the true teachings of Jesus. Their foul using of the Church to their own purposes is what has Catholics leaving the church in droves.
The rest of the World leaders would do well to follow Pope Francis's lead.
And one leader in particular is Trump, who has, with the Republican leadership and Evangelicals, the Tea Party and Freedom Caucus showed the world that we have lost all of our moral authority.
Obama had managed to bring us back from the brink of Bush and Cheney and Trump et al have taken us down again.
The rest of the World leaders would do well to follow Pope Francis's lead.
And one leader in particular is Trump, who has, with the Republican leadership and Evangelicals, the Tea Party and Freedom Caucus showed the world that we have lost all of our moral authority.
Obama had managed to bring us back from the brink of Bush and Cheney and Trump et al have taken us down again.
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American Catholic hierarchy has forgotten the main message of the gospels, which is definitely not about abortion or same sex marriage but about compassion, charity and give comfort to the unfortunate. Pope Francis is reminding Catholics what it means to be a Christian.
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Dang them European Catholics trying to force globalization on us American Catholics. Doesn't the Pope know that globalization is evil?
21
Globalization helps all...it lifts up the poor, the marginalized, the struggling!
4
No, Sir. I be to disagree. Globalization is not evil.. Remember the saying: "No man is an island."? Imagine if your ancestors (from Europe) did not embrace "globalization' by coming to America? WHERE WOULD YOU BE?
4
Globalization is not evil. Globalization is inevitable though.
2
It is high time that Christians reclaim the radical hospitality of the gospels. I am not a Catholic but believe Pope Francis is a true disciple of Christ.
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There is hope. Radical hospitality was the theme of the Convocation of Catholic Leaders held in Orlando over the July 4 holiday by the UCSSB, led by more than 150 bishops, including all the US-based cardinals other than Cupich.
6
Amen to that! He is the embodiment of what Jesus taught us...to love others as ourselves!
9
More like a follower of Che and Peron.
That many of them support Trump is no surprise. In their case, their abysmal past performances are wholly indicative of their current and future immoral behaviors.
IMO, the Pope has to come out a lot more strongly and make every effort to put down these Armageddon obsessed xtians. They are a pox on the religion and the faithful.