I was in the same situation. I kept my baby against the wishes of his biological dad and have no regrets. My advice is follow your heart. Stay positive. I was in a mess when I told my doctor, "I'm pregnant". But when he congratulated me on a low risk pregnancy, I realized that the best thing about my whole situation was this baby. After no contact for the whole pregnancy and the first year of our baby's life, his dad is now positively involved and while we're not together we have a friendly relationship. But we were also fine before he got involved. I'm also pro-choice but I know you can do no wrong by keeping your baby. You were made to do this with or without a partner. Don't let anyone scare you
72
"Just a few months of dating... I had requested that he use a condom once before... he thought I was on birth control (but never asked)..."
And she didn't disabuse him of that thought?
He was certainly utterly irresponsible but the lady involved seems to have set him up quite nicely to be a sperm donor. Months of unprotected sex? He doesn't ask and she doesn't tell? I suspect her pregnancy isn't as accidental as she describes it.
And she didn't disabuse him of that thought?
He was certainly utterly irresponsible but the lady involved seems to have set him up quite nicely to be a sperm donor. Months of unprotected sex? He doesn't ask and she doesn't tell? I suspect her pregnancy isn't as accidental as she describes it.
103
Why is everyone assuming that neither the writer nor her boyfriend used birth control? Birth control failure is common, as this great NYT feature demonstrates. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/14/sunday-review/unplanned-p... We don't know enough to criticize this couple for their family planning choices. If they do deserve criticism, it is for failing to have the "what if our birth control fails..." conversation before entering into a sexual relationship. Of course that is an awkward conversation to have, and it doesn't make good foreplay. How many of us can say that we've never had sex without first having this discussion?
19
I take issue with the Ethicist and the commenters saying the LW misled the guy. She never told him she was on birth control. If they never discussed it and she asked him to use a condom once, how is that "misleading" him?? Telling him she is on BC but not really being on it is misleading him. Taking a BC-looking pill in front of him knowing he'll assume it's one is misleading him. Neither party ever discussing it is NOT misleading him.
That said, of course she should have the baby. She wants a baby and she's pregnant. Have the baby. Perhaps the only plus side of all the pro-lifers in the country is that in no state can a man force a woman to have an abortion.
That said, of course she should have the baby. She wants a baby and she's pregnant. Have the baby. Perhaps the only plus side of all the pro-lifers in the country is that in no state can a man force a woman to have an abortion.
78
All children, male and female, should be sterilized at birth. Only when two people can prove (via testing) that they have the emotional, social and financial capacity, and sign intentional papers can they be unsterilized.
Seriously. You can't drive without taking a test and getting a driver's license. You can't get a job without an interview, which is a test of sorts. You can't have a house without negotiation and the signing of papers.
There are so many things in life that require attaining a high bar of sorts. There should be a bar to clear to be a parent.
Seriously. You can't drive without taking a test and getting a driver's license. You can't get a job without an interview, which is a test of sorts. You can't have a house without negotiation and the signing of papers.
There are so many things in life that require attaining a high bar of sorts. There should be a bar to clear to be a parent.
50
Get an abortion. Are you crazy? You're fertile till your early 40s no problem. You can find a guy or use a sperm donor but don't make a man a father against his will. That is much worse than a. abortion b. spending money on IV c. sperm donor baby. You're being completely selfish. Find another guy. It's not that hard. You're a terrible person if you keep it.
28
She obviously unconsciously wanted to have a baby and at 38 she wasn't getting any younger. Men need to always wear a condom or expect that a pregnancy could result.
63
I remember once asking a girl if she was on birth control or whether I should get a condom and her response was "off course I am .what do think I am? An idiot". It is an awkward conversation, but in a sexual relationship, the female party knows for a 100% fact, that birth control is being used, either by her or my him. The male does not know that as a 100% fact. So should the onus on the female to mention that bc is or not involved. Curious as to why she did not mention she was on bc when she knew he was not wearing a condom.
20
If the man didn't want children he could have used a condom or (requested) oral or anal sex. All three are unlikely to lead to pregnancy, especially the last two.
20
Can I keep a Baby My Boyfriend Doesn't Want? -- Plain and simply yes. What I find so stunning is the laughable idea that an adult relationship including two adults it appears of mature age would have the man just assuming the woman is on birth control without asking. Really?
My advice to this woman then is pretty simple, he's a moron, you probably can do better, and it's fair for you to just have a child because the clock is ticking. Child raising requires time, effort and most importantly ENERGY. How much energy might you have with an 8-year old in your fifties?
My advice to this woman then is pretty simple, he's a moron, you probably can do better, and it's fair for you to just have a child because the clock is ticking. Child raising requires time, effort and most importantly ENERGY. How much energy might you have with an 8-year old in your fifties?
47
Accidental? Are you joking? Getting pregnant after unprotected sex is not an accident by any stretch of the imagination.
80
Does the "boyfriend" already have children? Is he still married to someone else? What is his age compared to hers? What are their relative incomes? She does not sound like she was looking for a sperm bank with a paycheck, but one never knows. There is too much missing data to have an intelligent conversation about this without making assumptions.
Getting down to brass tacks, she is pregnant. Whether or not she carries the child to term, the decision now is whether or not to abort the pregnancy. That is a decision which she alone has the final say, and anything in the comments is naught more than attempt to be the next Dr. Phil or Oprah.
I wish her well no matter which direction she chooses: I am both pro-choice and pro-life.
Getting down to brass tacks, she is pregnant. Whether or not she carries the child to term, the decision now is whether or not to abort the pregnancy. That is a decision which she alone has the final say, and anything in the comments is naught more than attempt to be the next Dr. Phil or Oprah.
I wish her well no matter which direction she chooses: I am both pro-choice and pro-life.
17
Commented on this a few days ago.
My wife read it and thinks it's a bit too good to be true. Upon rereading I think she may have a point.
We smell a made up plant.
Was the story of "name withheld" fact checked?
My wife read it and thinks it's a bit too good to be true. Upon rereading I think she may have a point.
We smell a made up plant.
Was the story of "name withheld" fact checked?
12
What was up with the comment at the end almost wishing men were no longer necessary? How messed up is that?
17
If he really didn't want children, it was up to him to use a condom every single time he had sex. The woman is pro-choice, so she will need to choose quickly whether to have the baby or not. Personally, I'd say don't have it, since she's so undecided. Having a baby needs to be a positive choice, not the default.
If she decides to have it, find a good lawyer immediately, ane figure out what the father will be responsible for, as in, financial support.
If she decides to have it, find a good lawyer immediately, ane figure out what the father will be responsible for, as in, financial support.
26
What weight should be given to the opinion of a man who accidentally impregnates a woman?
19
At 38 years old it's very far from certain this woman will have another pregnancy...especially a healthy pregnancy. If the fetus is healthy and she eventually wants children, she should absolutely keep it. That's tough for this guy - it's not his right not to have children. If he wants to ensure no children, he can start by getting a vasectomy.
108
Well, speaking from personal experience, a word of caution to women in NYC who are impregnated by their boyfriends: you may find yourselves in a custody battle with the biological father of your child, whether he was a one-night stand or just now an ex-boyfriend that can be dragged out by an overwhelmed and entirely broken family court system, last upwards of 5 years, costing you upwards of $250,000 and leaving nothing but scorched earth. The system, as designed, punishes un-married women with young babies who cannot represent themselves.
23
What a namby pamby answer the ethicist gave. Of course it's the mother's right to choose, either way. For the first nine months, of course, it's only her medical condition, not the father's. And after that, if he does not want any connection of any kind whatsoever with the child, and if the mother agrees to that, why should she _not_ have the baby? It's not exactly a 50-50 decision. In fact, there is no way of quantifying the amount of decision in any such case, except that one person -- the person more involved -- agrees to take 100% responsibility. On the negative side, she might consider the fact that she will no doubt dislike -- and already seems to -- her child's father, and the child _may_ turn out to look like and have a personality like the father's. -- On the positive side, that's true in many, many divorce cases and doesn't make any difference; and moreover, I know several cases like the one described here in which the mother did decide to have the baby, in which the baby turned out to look very much like the father, and in which the mother Adores the child (now 21) and feels that this is the best decision she ever made.
24
At Planned Parenthood, we teach that the only 100% way to avoid pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sex. If you want to have sex (in whatever form you can think of), you need to use birth control. As soon as this man decided to have sex with this woman, he was taking a chance that he might create a child. He should have asked if she was using birth control. But even if he did, there is the possibility that the birth control method used could fail. He took a chance. I have always taught my kids (both girls and boys) that if someone gets pregnant, it will ultimately be up to the woman to decide what she's going to do...it's her body.
92
Ethically speaking, the woman is within her rights to have and keep the baby. It takes two to make one, and not using enough care is often leads to this consequence. Millions of women have had the same outcome for not using proper birth control.
Now the baby is in the body of the woman and she gets to make the decision on continuing her pregnancy. I will say as someone who struggled with fertility issues this is a no-brainer. At her age and presumably a sperm donor that she was attracted to enough to have a relationship, and assuming she would like a baby before times runs out, go for the baby.
I will leave aside the moral issue. But I will say that in an unscientific survey I did of women who had abortions, a significant number regretted it and mourned for the lost baby. In fairness, more than half felt it was the right decision.
Now the baby is in the body of the woman and she gets to make the decision on continuing her pregnancy. I will say as someone who struggled with fertility issues this is a no-brainer. At her age and presumably a sperm donor that she was attracted to enough to have a relationship, and assuming she would like a baby before times runs out, go for the baby.
I will leave aside the moral issue. But I will say that in an unscientific survey I did of women who had abortions, a significant number regretted it and mourned for the lost baby. In fairness, more than half felt it was the right decision.
19
I feel for the woman who has written to Dr Appiah, though must say that it is extraordinary to me that the Times' ethicist and pubic intellectual can suggest that the interests of a child in the womb may include the termination of his or her life. In relation to a future that is unknowable (as Appiah attests) why and how can one argue that it is in the interests of an individual not to live? If sufficient cause not to exist is one parent or another not wanting a child, then surely there are grounds to exterminate any number of children whose parents are delinquent at whatever age they happen to be.
I am grateful, however, that Appiah over and again identifies the pregnancy in question as a child rather than an embryo. Too often these discussion refuse to acknowledge that the termination of a pregnancy is in fact the termination of a human life. We must be painfully honest in these discussions.
We live at a moment when people can speak sincerely of 'accidental' pregnancies. Though pregnancies can be unintended, though people can take measures to protect against pregnancy, surely a normal end of sex is pregnancy.
Interventions to prevent pregnancy in child-bearing years are themselves 'exceptional', contingent, 'accidental'. My concern in all of this is that we have so colluded culturally in the erosion of honest language that we can not longer distinguish properly, as the medievals might say, in order to unite.
My very best thoughts to the mother, child and father.
I am grateful, however, that Appiah over and again identifies the pregnancy in question as a child rather than an embryo. Too often these discussion refuse to acknowledge that the termination of a pregnancy is in fact the termination of a human life. We must be painfully honest in these discussions.
We live at a moment when people can speak sincerely of 'accidental' pregnancies. Though pregnancies can be unintended, though people can take measures to protect against pregnancy, surely a normal end of sex is pregnancy.
Interventions to prevent pregnancy in child-bearing years are themselves 'exceptional', contingent, 'accidental'. My concern in all of this is that we have so colluded culturally in the erosion of honest language that we can not longer distinguish properly, as the medievals might say, in order to unite.
My very best thoughts to the mother, child and father.
15
This is one of the saddest tales I've read in awhile. What makes it sad is the number of readers encouraging this obviously very confused, immature 39 year old woman to bring to term and give birth to a human child. What then?
Has anyone stopped to consider what kind of life this child would have growing up in chaos, a child whose reason for being is to satisfy a 'biological clock' ?
Has anyone stopped to consider what kind of life this child would have growing up in chaos, a child whose reason for being is to satisfy a 'biological clock' ?
31
Its your choice! Have the baby! Also, not to sound pessimistic, but in this situation its plausible this man will 1)disappear or 2) try and kill you. He probably doesnt believe you're not going to involve him, and his assumptions might be accurate. Signing up for single parenthood is difficult. Go to your social support network. Do not feel ethically obligated to this mans wishes to terminate the pregnancy, but also dont expect him to change his mind and become ethically obligated to you. He wont.
18
I do believe that the boyfriend has rights in this situation, but the time to exercise those rights was before he had unprotected sex. I respect the emotional toll knowing a child of his will grow up unseen and unknown, in the care of a woman he does not know well. However, as long as he is not forced to participate against his will, I don't see that he has the right to force the woman to terminate against hers.
45
Get an abortion. There are already enough people in the world.No one will no the difference.
14
I understand and appreciate the dilemma here, however, it's her body and her choice. It's that simple.
22
This is fascinating. The only ethical dilemma to receive any comment is the one about the surprise pregnancy.
9
To the pregnant woman: It seems to me that you want this child. If that is what your heart is telling you, do not have an abortion. If you abort, you'll spend the rest of your life wondering "what if..." Being a single parent will have challenges but also many joys. I don't think you will ever look at your child and wish that you had aborted. Make a decision and stop stressing out - maternal stress is not good for the baby.
17
Why is this even question? Pro-choice is pro-choice. It is a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body.
27
Much of what the pregnant 38-year-old writes is disturbing, but this stands out: "I am... not attached to what has begun to grow inside me." If she's not over the moon with the idea, why would she even consider keeping this child, especially knowing the man involved would prefer she not?
36
To opportunistic pregnant woman:
I hope your enthusiasm for the child would not wane if the child turned out to be handicapped or you got a second child from the man of your dreams who became your husband.
Somehow, I get the feeling that you're way too calculating for me to be optimistic of your generosity of spirit.
I hope your enthusiasm for the child would not wane if the child turned out to be handicapped or you got a second child from the man of your dreams who became your husband.
Somehow, I get the feeling that you're way too calculating for me to be optimistic of your generosity of spirit.
23
I just had a thought I will like to share.
Something that most of you will call ignorant.
Most of the people leaving comments have only contempt for the father of this child.
I think these people are looking for reason to put him down.
I would like to ask her a question.
if she knew that she would become pregnant and the father of the child would not help her would she still want to become pregnant with this man.
If so then she should thank this man even when that was not his intention.
If anything he has the right to be angry as she used him to get what she wanted without his permission.
I would be amazed if anyone agrees with me.
Something that most of you will call ignorant.
Most of the people leaving comments have only contempt for the father of this child.
I think these people are looking for reason to put him down.
I would like to ask her a question.
if she knew that she would become pregnant and the father of the child would not help her would she still want to become pregnant with this man.
If so then she should thank this man even when that was not his intention.
If anything he has the right to be angry as she used him to get what she wanted without his permission.
I would be amazed if anyone agrees with me.
24
I believe in one man (or woman), one vote and choice; but this is not a 50/50 call. Your choice madam. Anything else is misogyny.
16
My married mid thirties sister bullied her husband into two kids . He couldn't have been more clear about wanting to be childless - publicly, outwardly. Having one made him realize how much he knew himself and didn't want the other. But they had a second child, anyway. Now they are one of those miserable, overly chaotic, frantic, busy families that eat garbage and never have any downtime. My sister seems to dislike the parenting experience even more than he does. I can feel her waiting for her kids to, I don't know - graduate, or something. Like, it will be over some day. It's never over. Sorry this isn't terribly relevant, it's just horrible to witness and needed to get it off my chest.
34
Her body. Her choice.
12
Have the baby. Stop agonizing and just get on with it. Some things will be hard, but they always are. Just have it.
6
The chance the father may be a bone marrow donor is close to nil. The chance of another sibling is possible but low and of an identical twin being the donor is over 90%.
6
We all know that in such matters, men have taxation without representation. If she decides to have an abortion, you have NO say, not even the right to know. If she decides NOT to have an abortion, you will be paying bills for 18 years.
And that IS taxation without representation.
And that IS taxation without representation.
13
The morality of abortion was not the ethical question asked in “Can I Keep a Baby My Boyfriend Doesn’t Want?” The comment by Kwame Anthony Appiah “I am not going to consider the question of whether abortion is morally permissible: You think it is, and I respect that view” was inappropriate. For the writer, abortion was an option and to bring up the morality of a safe, legal option for her.”
8
The answer...No good Answer.
We went through the same dilemma with our daughter, who is the same age.
She was quite torn about what to do but eventually gave up he pregnancy to save the relationship with her boyfriend.
I supported her decision, but now I wish I had leaned a little more toward keeping the baby when she asked my advice. I tried to be as neutral as possible.
In short, she was devastated by her decision and we are all grieving over the loss. Some people never look back and get on with their lives but others go into a depression. And you don't know which will happen for you until you do it. Then again, it could turn out that you keep the baby and wish you had not.
It depends on the person.
We went through the same dilemma with our daughter, who is the same age.
She was quite torn about what to do but eventually gave up he pregnancy to save the relationship with her boyfriend.
I supported her decision, but now I wish I had leaned a little more toward keeping the baby when she asked my advice. I tried to be as neutral as possible.
In short, she was devastated by her decision and we are all grieving over the loss. Some people never look back and get on with their lives but others go into a depression. And you don't know which will happen for you until you do it. Then again, it could turn out that you keep the baby and wish you had not.
It depends on the person.
16
"But the fact that your wishes ultimately have greater weight doesn’t mean that his wishes have none."
As a legal statement, this sentence is totally invalid. Only the potential mother (i.e., the LW), has any say in the decision, as it should be. So for the sentence to have any meaning, it must refer to the factors in the LW's decision. However, there is an imbalance here, to the LW's detriment, in a somewhat traditional patriarchal manner. The LW is trying to be open-minded, sympathetic and fair, while the boyfriend is not. In these circumstances, the only weight I would give the boyfriend's opinion is how his opinion is likely to affect his behavior toward the child and the LW over the years, if she has the baby, and not how it will affect his feelings or his life. Here, the most likely outcome is that he will break up with the LW and hardly participate in the child's life, if at all. If the LW is not afraid of that possibility, she should have the baby.
As a legal statement, this sentence is totally invalid. Only the potential mother (i.e., the LW), has any say in the decision, as it should be. So for the sentence to have any meaning, it must refer to the factors in the LW's decision. However, there is an imbalance here, to the LW's detriment, in a somewhat traditional patriarchal manner. The LW is trying to be open-minded, sympathetic and fair, while the boyfriend is not. In these circumstances, the only weight I would give the boyfriend's opinion is how his opinion is likely to affect his behavior toward the child and the LW over the years, if she has the baby, and not how it will affect his feelings or his life. Here, the most likely outcome is that he will break up with the LW and hardly participate in the child's life, if at all. If the LW is not afraid of that possibility, she should have the baby.
10
Of course the decision to have the baby or not is the woman's, and I understand why it's a difficult decision. I think what is missing in discussing the ethical considerations is the fact that sex is a reproductive act. It is many other things also, but reproduction is at the biological heart of it. While you can take steps to minimize that probability, we (adults especially) should all realize what the possibilities of the act are, regardless of the precautions we take.
8
Ethically, it is the woman's choice to have the baby against her boyfriend's wishes. Men may abdicate responsibility, but at his age, he should be able to discuss birth control options, practice them and share the costs. The LW may or not get pregnant again and having a child is in her plans for life. This relationship is over no matter which options she takes, so have the baby and work out visitation and support options later. A man who really doesn't want to have children should be more careful about birth control.
LW3- Letting the woman off the hook without the final payment leaves her without a record, but that just hides the fact that she didn't pay. As with other law-breakers who have their crimes reduced and plea-bargained, it leaves a false paper trail which hides the actual crimes. In this case, a future landlord has a right to know she doesn't pay her debts. Being a drug addict is no excuse. It is a good reason to not let her rent an apartment.
LW3- Letting the woman off the hook without the final payment leaves her without a record, but that just hides the fact that she didn't pay. As with other law-breakers who have their crimes reduced and plea-bargained, it leaves a false paper trail which hides the actual crimes. In this case, a future landlord has a right to know she doesn't pay her debts. Being a drug addict is no excuse. It is a good reason to not let her rent an apartment.
9
That men continue to leave birth control for women to take control of is amazing to me. Men need to stop pretending that they play no part in pregnancy. If the boyfriend does not want children he should have had a vasectomy long ago to ensure that this situation would never happen. Now, he has to face whatever comes his way. His anger is misplaced. He should be angry at himself for allowing the pregnancy to occur. The decision to continue the pregnancy is entirely hers, and his feelings are inconsequential. Whatever she decides, I wish her well.
36
To LW3 (The Debt): If you have any feelings for the roommate as a friend, be merciful. Anyone in the business of debt collection would be thrilled to receive 90% of a debt. Filing a judgment would be unduly harsh, because it would create the same record as someone who has paid little or nothing. If the roommate is actively trying to break an addiction, extend the time in recognition of those efforts. Having a judgment entered could only discourage the roommate's efforts, and might cause a setback. Would you want that on your conscience, over 10% of a debt? I wouldn't.
12
Long time ago I was in almost a similar situation - I chose to have the baby because I considered the accidental pregnancy a blessing and I wanted to have a child.
I have now a great son - intelligent, good looking, talented... the list is long. Some of the qualities (and faults:)) are inherited from me, some from his father.
I simplified the story to make the facts easier to understand.
We never have in life the same chance twice. Never.
Have the baby and you'll be a happy woman no matter what the father will do in the future.
I have now a great son - intelligent, good looking, talented... the list is long. Some of the qualities (and faults:)) are inherited from me, some from his father.
I simplified the story to make the facts easier to understand.
We never have in life the same chance twice. Never.
Have the baby and you'll be a happy woman no matter what the father will do in the future.
17
Instead of only thinking of herself and her own desires to have children, she should consider the consequences for her child to grow up without her biological father, and eventually finding out the reasons for this when the child inevitably begins to ask these types of questions. This example is postmodernism out of control; for once, think of the other people (most importantly the child) rather than yourself.
5
I agree with the author, professional counseling may be helpful if the couple would like to pursue consensus. Especially with the time sensitive nature of the issue.
2
Adults know how babies are made. You both took a risk and the result is a pregnancy. If you can raise this child, then do it. It will be more difficult without a partner, but life isn't always perfect.
10
1.
Bluntly, the woman is taking advantage of the situation, a mistake based on lack of communication, at least. While it may seem prudent to have the child, I question her actually being ready to be a mother due to her talking of IVF and egg freezing. One should be ready, not just taking advantage of opportunity. As well, it does only seem fair, if one considers fairness to have anything at all to do with child-bearing, to consider the male's feelings on the matter.
2.
It is the "objectivity of individual scientists" in the sense that a person must be able to put aside his or her beliefs (etc.) in conducting research, writing, reporting, you name it. Belief, personal opinion, and so forth has no place in objective research/writing, and those who cannot refrain should find other fields or interests.
3.
File the judgement. Take it from an ex-drunk: by helping her out, you are simply filling her glass (or nose, veins, etc.). It is no favor.
Bluntly, the woman is taking advantage of the situation, a mistake based on lack of communication, at least. While it may seem prudent to have the child, I question her actually being ready to be a mother due to her talking of IVF and egg freezing. One should be ready, not just taking advantage of opportunity. As well, it does only seem fair, if one considers fairness to have anything at all to do with child-bearing, to consider the male's feelings on the matter.
2.
It is the "objectivity of individual scientists" in the sense that a person must be able to put aside his or her beliefs (etc.) in conducting research, writing, reporting, you name it. Belief, personal opinion, and so forth has no place in objective research/writing, and those who cannot refrain should find other fields or interests.
3.
File the judgement. Take it from an ex-drunk: by helping her out, you are simply filling her glass (or nose, veins, etc.). It is no favor.
2
Seems to me that Appiah's reasoning also applies equally to the question of whether a woman should be able to have an abortion -- because "women bear the greater risks of bringing children into the world makes it natural to grant their wishes greater weight than those of men," it should be totally up to them to decide whether or not to have abortion.
8
It's your body.
Your decision.
Your decision.
4
I'm pro-choice, the operative word being "choice." Exercise your own choice.
I add this -> I hear custody cases, and quite a few of them involve dads who initially asked the mom to have an abortion. Once the baby is a baby, that is, once it can survive outside the woman's body, the man's thinking changes, and so will yours. Decide now what you want, and if you decide against abortion, your life will include, as does everyone's, all the events that occur with having a child, including child support, visitation, quite a lot of happiness, and quite a lot of stress.
I add this -> I hear custody cases, and quite a few of them involve dads who initially asked the mom to have an abortion. Once the baby is a baby, that is, once it can survive outside the woman's body, the man's thinking changes, and so will yours. Decide now what you want, and if you decide against abortion, your life will include, as does everyone's, all the events that occur with having a child, including child support, visitation, quite a lot of happiness, and quite a lot of stress.
11
I am all for choice, but something here really sounds off. Perhaps it is the cavalier sounding way the mother refers to the pregnancy. If she really wants the baby and all the responsibility that entails, then have the baby. If not, then consider carrying the baby to term and letting it be adopted. Carrying the baby to term is a lot to ask, but abortion as a form of birth control is apparently pushing the boundary of my belief in choice.
2
The main thing is, this woman has a right to have the baby. All the valid arguments about choice apply to the the freedom to choose not to have an abortion, as well as the freedom to have one. The guy in this case has a right to make his feelings known, as he has. And they naturally should be of some interest to the woman in making her decision, as they clearly are. But it is her decision to make. There is a line between him having a right to state his feelings, and him having some kind of property rights in the decision.
Whether she can sign away future rights to child support would be a legal question - she could make a promise, but I sort of doubt it would be legally enforceable. But even so, it's her choice at this point. The line of thought leading to the possibility of some kind of compelled abortion is too appalling.
Whether she can sign away future rights to child support would be a legal question - she could make a promise, but I sort of doubt it would be legally enforceable. But even so, it's her choice at this point. The line of thought leading to the possibility of some kind of compelled abortion is too appalling.
12
A man who does not want his child will not be a good father, though the law will require him to be a father, and there will be constant legal and emotional problems for all of you. The child will have to live knowing his/her father didn't want him/her. There will be financial and emotional issues all the time, which lead to every other sort of problem. Abortion should be safe, legal and available to those who need and want them.
9
The argument that "if he didn't want a child he shouldn't have had unprotected sex" is the EXACT same argument that is often used by those arguing against abortion rights.
Ironic.
Ironic.
6
I had the exact same situation with becoming pregnant at age 35, though slightly different in that I had endometriosis and thought I would never get pregnant. Actually only had sex once that month, but as your mom says, only takes once. After enduring the rage of the bf, I decided to continue the pregnancy. The bf left me, which was fine. I managed by myself and I'm glad I made the choice that I did.
17
Its not so complicated. Its your body, your choice. Unfortunately for the father, if you keep it, he has to help raise it, such is life. after the child is born, things will probably change, for the better or worse. Having said that, the words you and he are saying, well , I would not want to be the child...
8
Dear Name Withheld: If you want to have the baby, have it. If you don't, don't.
Period.
Period.
7
This is simpler than the discussion makes it seem.
- It's her body, her choice to keep the baby or not, within roe v. wade.
- It's clear she misled him (passively) about being on birth control, so he should have no financial responsibilities that he's not willing to accept.
- She's morally wrong to have misled him, it puts him in a situation that he should not be in.
My opinion; I'm pro choice but an abortion to help make people feel better about being bad is an abuse of that choice. Keep the baby, let the father decide his involvement.
- It's her body, her choice to keep the baby or not, within roe v. wade.
- It's clear she misled him (passively) about being on birth control, so he should have no financial responsibilities that he's not willing to accept.
- She's morally wrong to have misled him, it puts him in a situation that he should not be in.
My opinion; I'm pro choice but an abortion to help make people feel better about being bad is an abuse of that choice. Keep the baby, let the father decide his involvement.
4
Some readers seem to be put off by this woman's statement that she is "not attached" to what has begun to grow. Perhaps a little perspective is needed here. This 38 year old woman has been caught by surprise and she is in the very early stages of adjusting to this new reality. Moreover, the simple facts are that women are often not immediately in love with the incipient human which is at this point still just a ball of cells, especially if they were not expecting to conceive. That attachment doesn't just blossom -- it is stimulated by a rush of hormones which seem to arrive just in time to protect the embryo and take the edge of the mother's anxiety. No matter how much you want a baby, it can be somewhat scary! I remember that it was as if a switch was flipped. Before, I was surprised, excited, but also frightened. And then suddenly, everything seemed alright. I'm sure it was largely the hormones. So give this woman a chance to feel that attachment that she is "expected" to feel.
12
My favorite is the description of the "thing" inside her. Sorry but that isn't human life and her child? (Same child she is discussing keeping).
When did "feminism" become so warped and depraved of the value of human life?
When did "feminism" become so warped and depraved of the value of human life?
23
E, some women are so ambivalent about their pregnancy and the fetus inside of them, that in order to be able to detach emotionally -- perhaps as in this case, so you can abort with a clear conscience -- it is necessary to deny that the "thing" is your own living, growing baby -- and to call it "a thing".
4
That's not "feminism", that's how human feelings actually work. This is obviously early in the pregnancy. You may have some religious beliefs about the soul and so on, but they seem to lead you to to condemn an awful lot of normal humans for the way they actually feel.
12
It is a "thing" until born, that thing being called a fetus (not "baby", etc.).
One might instead ask, when will people use logic and reason when speaking of the empirical world rather than emotional, usually religious-tinted belief?
One might instead ask, when will people use logic and reason when speaking of the empirical world rather than emotional, usually religious-tinted belief?
9
To many commenters regarding the pregnant woman, that relationship is doomed no matter what and I can certainly see how he would be angry and betrayed by the pregnancy since it affects both their lives regardless of his involvement.
As a woman, I would never have a child both parents don't equally want and would never, ever choose to be a single parent. I am an only parent by death of the father and no matter how many resources I have, it's not the same as having a co-parent. And no it is not romantic to be a single mother, even a well-off one.
As a woman, I would never have a child both parents don't equally want and would never, ever choose to be a single parent. I am an only parent by death of the father and no matter how many resources I have, it's not the same as having a co-parent. And no it is not romantic to be a single mother, even a well-off one.
51
Isn't it good that you don't get to make the choice for someone else based on what YOU want. I'm very sorry for your horrific loss, but I believe strongly that it's for the best that we don't get to force others to do what we would do in similar circumstances.
10
That is your story, not hers.
14
The boyfriend had his choice of a vasectomy or condoms, and chose neither even though he never wants a child. He now does not have a choice. That said, mother-to-be should go to a mediator with him to draw up paperwork about the child, covering their agreement at different stages of the child's life (financial, illness - e.g. liver or bone marrow transplant, visitation with father or relatives, living arrangements, death of mom etc.). No sense waiting around for the angrily emphatic, but clearly disorganized, other men's shoe to drop.
75
Thank you for that comment. More folks should read Laura Grodstein's fairly-recent novel, Our Short Story" (which I learned of through the NYT book section). The first person narrative (written "by" the mother) tells of a very successful, quite independent (financially and otherwise) mother who, having become pregnant by a boyfriend who doesn't want children, simply decides to break up with him and have the child, without ever telling him that she "kept" the baby. six years later, she's facing a pretty-undeniable death sentence from cancer...with a six year old son who's never met his father. I think she's in her mid-thirties. If someone were to ask me "What's the book about?", I'd simply say "Ummmm...that there are no easy answers, regarding children and pregnancies, unless you think everything's all about YOU?"
I'd also say "Oh, it's very good at demonstrating the dangers of going through life, thinking that all of the people you love or have loved are just minor characters in the Big Story of Your Life".
Best of luck and good wishes to the letter-writer,
David Terry
Hillsborough, NC
I'd also say "Oh, it's very good at demonstrating the dangers of going through life, thinking that all of the people you love or have loved are just minor characters in the Big Story of Your Life".
Best of luck and good wishes to the letter-writer,
David Terry
Hillsborough, NC
3
How do we know she did not mislead, even by omission" the boyfriend about being on birth control? She asked him to use a condom, then they stopped using condoms. What happened? Perhaps she said "Oh, you don't need that"? The couple should go to a lawyer, and document that the guy is giving up his parental rights and obligations. The guy should then shut his mouth and be glad he dodged a bullet.
2
Honestly, a man who never wants children and doesn't want to chance it should get a vasectomy if he doesn't want to have to ever deal with a girlfriend or wife becoming pregnant. He, obviously did not do so. He made a bet and now he has to accept that the bet was not a wise one.
It's her body and her choice. He took a risk that pregnancy could occur, now it's out of his hands and has no right to tell her not to have the baby. It's her choice and hers alone.
It's her body and her choice. He took a risk that pregnancy could occur, now it's out of his hands and has no right to tell her not to have the baby. It's her choice and hers alone.
116
He has every right to tell her not to have the baby. It's his baby too. Are you so myopic that you don't see that? Great, it's her body for 9 months and his life until he dies.
3
I suspect the man who says he doesn't want children but hasn't gotten a vasectomy is really just unwilling to admit "I don't want to have children with you."
13
Any woman this stupid at 38 - and oblivious to the fact that she engineered the situation - would make a terrible and self-involved mother. Why, oh why do I think alcohol was involved in what sounds like a booty call after a one night stand? I am sick of hearing women say that they must have a child to feel fulfilled - about themselves? I made every attempt possible to avoid pregnancy because I knew I didn't want children. It does not occur by accident.
64
You are making unjust suppositions about the person who wrote the letter.
Yes, pregnancies can occur by accident- maybe not in some upper, upper class places, but even there it can happen.
Yes, pregnancies can occur by accident- maybe not in some upper, upper class places, but even there it can happen.
5
Neither participants in this relationship have my sympathy. Did they not know of the chance of pregnancy, protection/birth control or not? Never in my dating life was avoiding pregnancy not my top priority, more than sexual spontaneity or overwhelming attraction. And lest we forget HIV and other STDs. And I knew I didn't want children so I made it a point to avoid men who did so the question of abortion would be less contentious should the need arise. With planning and honest discussion of expectations and responsibilities most unwanted pregnancies could be avoided.
6
Eli, you do know that the births of at least 20% of babies born in the US are unintended, right? So, the chances you are the result of an unplanned birth aren't zero. The only way to avoid pregnancy is abstinence, which requires both people in a sexual situation.
Biology cannot be stopped no matter how hard mankind tries.
Biology cannot be stopped no matter how hard mankind tries.
2
I think LW1's statement that she is "not attached to the thing growing inside her" says it all. Do this child a favor and terminate the pregnancy, the sooner the better.
34
she never said "...the thing."
6
Have an abortion. If you can't have kids later, adopt. And don't have unprotected sex if you don't want a kid.
24
But she does. You have completely missed the point of her dilemma.
35
You have missed the point that the final sentence is directed at the boyfriend. The first two are directed at the woman with the dilemma.
Adoption is much more difficult and COSTLY than you imagine, and most adoption agencies prefer married couples to singles.
Anyways it is moot: SHE IS PREGNANT RIGHT NOW. With her own biological child. What person would abort their own biological child, to adopt a stranger's child -- which would take years and cost tens of thousands of dollars? That makes no sense at all.
Anyways it is moot: SHE IS PREGNANT RIGHT NOW. With her own biological child. What person would abort their own biological child, to adopt a stranger's child -- which would take years and cost tens of thousands of dollars? That makes no sense at all.
12
Legally, it's entirely within the pregnant woman's discretion to decide to raise the baby without his consent and demand child support payments, no matter what his desires. It would then be up to him to decide how involved he wants to be. Ethically, I don't see that it's any different. He and she each decided to have sex, presumably with a full understanding of the possible consequences - and these are the consequences. If she decides to go ahead with it, she got free access to single motherhood (upside), but with unexpected timing (downside) - compared to IVF from anonymous donor, it's a financial windfall.
It doesn't appear that she mislead him, according to her account - though it's not clear how it happened that "he thought I was on birth control." Issues of BC and barriers to STDs shouldn't be left unspoken, and outcomes like this is why.
Some surely wiould suggest that marriage would solve the dilemma, but that's a separate step to be entered into with open eyes. As modern lovers, marriage is no longer required for these two to make things right with the world. He doesn't sound like marriage material, but his money and perhaps one day, his bone marrow is fair game.
It doesn't appear that she mislead him, according to her account - though it's not clear how it happened that "he thought I was on birth control." Issues of BC and barriers to STDs shouldn't be left unspoken, and outcomes like this is why.
Some surely wiould suggest that marriage would solve the dilemma, but that's a separate step to be entered into with open eyes. As modern lovers, marriage is no longer required for these two to make things right with the world. He doesn't sound like marriage material, but his money and perhaps one day, his bone marrow is fair game.
9
Take the baby. Leave the cannoli.
84
It's hard to think of something funny to say about killing unborn children, sort of like saying something funny about Auschwitz, but I found myself having to grin about this one.
2
Send boyfriend packing and keep the child. You just can not imagine that universe of happiness that he/she will bring and it will stay with you for the rest of your life
31
Well, let's be realistic. This woman has every right to keep the child, and it sounds like that might involve parting with the boyfriend, although he may find his feelings changing, people are pretty mysterious.
But seriously, this could be a rocky road she is setting out on. She has a right to make this decision, but she should make it with her eyes open.
But seriously, this could be a rocky road she is setting out on. She has a right to make this decision, but she should make it with her eyes open.
2
This hit home with me. One woman falsely told me she was on the pill, and another let me assume it (and I did not discuss birth control with her as I should have).
I cannot imagine what a pitiful thing my life would be now without my daughters.
I cannot imagine what a pitiful thing my life would be now without my daughters.
64
Congrats on you loving your daughters. Do I understand correctly that they have different mothers? If so, what lesson did you learn from the first unexpected pregnancy? Just asking.
11
The woman has no "ethical" responsibility to her partner in making her decision whether to keep the baby or not. She may care about how he feels about being a father, and she may care about him and about their relationship, but that's a personal matter for her to sort out. Maybe she needs to say, "I'm keeping the baby, but I also want you in my life," and then see where that goes.
16
Your boyfriend has zero say in whether you have this child or not. It is your body. He had a say in whether you got pregnant or not and that was to use a condom or have a successful vasectomy (a vasectomy that was tested afterwards and medically determined to have made your boyfriend sterile). Your ambivalence about this child is disturbing. You need to determine whether you truly want this child. The baby deserves a parent who is committed to the child as a beloved family member not just a standard accessory to adulthood.
46
this was no accident. There's an expression, "If you're not usin', you're tryin'."
50
You should have the baby, love it and raise it. Draw up legal documents absolving the guy of all financial responsibility and making clear that you and the baby will have no relationship with him. This isn't a gigantic question of "all men" or "all women"-- you want the baby and you can afford to keep it, so go for it. Single motherhood is one of the choices the womens' movement fought for.This might be the only baby you have a chance to have.
21
To the ethicist: How can it possibly be in the best interest of the child to be destroyed? You said "sometimes that's the case." When else do we say it is in someone's interest that they be destroyed?
9
When they're in unrelenting irreversible pain? It's called euthanasia.
18
Yes, there is euthanasia. But there is such a wide difference between situation of a person suffering unrelenting pain, and the situation of a person facing the possible consequences of having a father who didn't want them to be born, that I would say they don't belong in the same category. Every one of us faces prospective possible difficulties as bad or worse that this possible child faces, and these future bad possibilities aren't thought to suggest that it might be in our interests not to exist. (Well, there is the saying that the luckiest thing is never to have been born, but that's just a saying.)
2
She doesn't believe it's a child. It's a "thing inside" her. It is her right to believe that, regardless of what you think. It's also her right to abort it, regardless of what you think. You may disagree with her, but the law protects her and permits her to make whatever decision she chooses. You may believe something else and choose something different, which is your right. But, you may not make her choice for her.
I can't believe the answer to this question or even that it's being asked like this. You are past the point of moral dilemmas...there is a baby on the way and you need to make decisions based on facts and a full understanding of yourself and what you are capable of.
Please go and talk to someone who has actual legal knowledge about custody because this is extremely simple he can legally sign away his parental rights. Do you want to have the baby and be a single mother or not? That is your decision. Single motherhood is both fabulous and difficult...go talk to some single mothers if you want to know what it's like...the best way to make it work is to have a support system. Your child does not need a father...your child needs love, support, security and a safe environment to grow up in. Can you provide that on your own?
Then does your boyfriend want to be involved or does he want to sign away his parental rights? That's his right and his decision.
Please go and talk to someone who has actual legal knowledge about custody because this is extremely simple he can legally sign away his parental rights. Do you want to have the baby and be a single mother or not? That is your decision. Single motherhood is both fabulous and difficult...go talk to some single mothers if you want to know what it's like...the best way to make it work is to have a support system. Your child does not need a father...your child needs love, support, security and a safe environment to grow up in. Can you provide that on your own?
Then does your boyfriend want to be involved or does he want to sign away his parental rights? That's his right and his decision.
40
To the pregnant woman: I think your boyfriend should have no say. If he was so adamant about not having children, he should have gotten a vasectomy.
That said, before you go ahead and have the baby, you need to consider whether you yourself can handle it both financially and logistically.
Do you have a situation where you can take maternity leave from work? Once you go back to work, will you have enough money to pay for childcare? Do you have family or friends who will give you serious logistical support when needed (for example, if you and the baby get sick at the same time)?
If you answered yes to all these questions, go ahead and have the baby. However, if you're not in a situation where you can handle the baby on your own, you have some serious thinking to do. Ultimately, the choice is yours.
(I greatly sympathize with your desire to have a child. I was 43 years old, married to an abusive man, and I got pregnant. For about 5 minutes I considered abortion but then realized that I already loved the child growing within me. I had my son when I was 44 and don't regret it for a minute, even though the situation with his father was very difficult. My son is now 25 and is a wonderful young man. My life would be infinitely poorer without him.)
That said, before you go ahead and have the baby, you need to consider whether you yourself can handle it both financially and logistically.
Do you have a situation where you can take maternity leave from work? Once you go back to work, will you have enough money to pay for childcare? Do you have family or friends who will give you serious logistical support when needed (for example, if you and the baby get sick at the same time)?
If you answered yes to all these questions, go ahead and have the baby. However, if you're not in a situation where you can handle the baby on your own, you have some serious thinking to do. Ultimately, the choice is yours.
(I greatly sympathize with your desire to have a child. I was 43 years old, married to an abusive man, and I got pregnant. For about 5 minutes I considered abortion but then realized that I already loved the child growing within me. I had my son when I was 44 and don't regret it for a minute, even though the situation with his father was very difficult. My son is now 25 and is a wonderful young man. My life would be infinitely poorer without him.)
41
Re vasectomy, as so many scolds here think ii is so obvious a failed course of action on the part of the LW's boyfriend.
What if he is not yet certain about wanting a kid, wants to leave the possibility? But states a definite "no" to the LW as he hears her start to talk about her "biological clock", apply pressure in prematurely pushing for a lifetime commitment to her?
And please, folks, don't give me the "then he shouldn't have had sex w her"! In this culture, 99% have "casual sex" like this - so common that this term seems ridiculous.
What if he is not yet certain about wanting a kid, wants to leave the possibility? But states a definite "no" to the LW as he hears her start to talk about her "biological clock", apply pressure in prematurely pushing for a lifetime commitment to her?
And please, folks, don't give me the "then he shouldn't have had sex w her"! In this culture, 99% have "casual sex" like this - so common that this term seems ridiculous.
7
He should have used a condom if he didn't want children. So sick and tired of men who think it is just the women's responsibility. She was also wrong not to use contraception. Unbelievable in this day and age! They should have discussed contraception like responsible adults. That said, he has absolutely no right to insist she have an abortion. Children are a likely outcome of unprotected sex, and if he was so sure he didn't want children, he should have taken responsibility for protecting himself. Period.
77
Sorry, TG -- maybe 99% have casual sex like this, because more than HALF of all children today are born to unwed mothers.
But it does not change the FACTS of how babies get made. Have sex, don't use condoms and you will likely get some woman pregnant. This is just how it is.
Don't like it? Use condoms or have a vasectomy.
But it does not change the FACTS of how babies get made. Have sex, don't use condoms and you will likely get some woman pregnant. This is just how it is.
Don't like it? Use condoms or have a vasectomy.
6
Premature pressure for a commitment? What about premature pressure for sexual involvement? That may or may not have been the case with this letter writer but, especially in my 20s and early 30s, I nearly consistently experienced pressure to engage in sexual intercourse, BC or not, in the earliest stages of dating, often on the first or second date. I'm only 54 and now married but my conversations with single younger women inform me that this is still the case. Not too sure the so-called hook-up culture is as enthusiastically embraced as is commonly believed.
3
So many of the comments sided with the first LW or her boy friend about his or her "right". These two have already lived out half of their lives. Greater concern should be placed on the entire life of the potential child. Ethics is about fundamental right and wrong, and moral responsibilities to others, not just religious belief, legal rights, financial obligations, or self gratifications.
15
If men could be pregnant, there would be abortion facilities on every corner. The notion that it a woman must give up her body as though she were a dog having pups is just confusing to me. I am absolutely pro-choice, and think we should butt out of this woman's problem, even though she invited us in. I am not pro-abortion, which I hope is a procedure every woman can avoid, but Ii am totally pro-choice, and one of those choices is to terminate the pregnancy before there really is a "child" or a "baby." I wish the LW luck, and hope she makes a decision that is a good one for her, whichever way she goes.
4
My advice for 38: Now that you have made your life harder "accidentally" it's time to be fully intentional going forward. Get some counseling, preferably with the boyfriend. You are both prospective parents now. Choose life if you are able to support the child with or without dad-to-be and please donate to organizations that protect your health rights.
12
To whomever applicable here: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
12
Re the woman deciding whether to go ahead with her pregnancy: I agree with the Ethicist's discussion of the issues, except I think short shrift was given to the future of the potential child. How will s/he feel, knowing the father so completely rejected her/him? That s/he was an accident? Having a resentful, uninvolved father? I think the better choice is to have and abortion and then intentionally conceive a child for whom the messaging about parentage will be far more positive.
12
There are likely far more people who were "accidents" than we may be aware of. While it is painful to deal with the rejection of a parent, this does not automatically mean the child cannot live a successful and happy life. The gift of life is precious.
30
Hi AJK: I think you are exaggerating the trauma of having a father who didn't want to have a child. Especially considering that this father may not be much of a presence in this child's life. It could certainly be part of a miserable childhood, if the father was around and harped on it, but in reality a lot of children were "accidents", or feel that way, and manage to get along pretty well. This is a time for the saying "Don't let better be the enemy of good."
3
Why would any parent tell their child that their father "completely rejected them"? What good would that do for any child?
3
My first reaction is to abort the boyfriend and keep the child. However,
both parties share equal measure in this pregnancy, no matter how irresponsibly they both behaved. Had they been legally married and getting a
divorce, custody would be decided by the Courts in the best interest of the
child. If only that were possible in this case. Then, all three might enjoy
the future and be grateful for this accidental miracle.
both parties share equal measure in this pregnancy, no matter how irresponsibly they both behaved. Had they been legally married and getting a
divorce, custody would be decided by the Courts in the best interest of the
child. If only that were possible in this case. Then, all three might enjoy
the future and be grateful for this accidental miracle.
4
Obviously, deep down, he wants a baby, too. Otherwise, he would have prevented it.
Keep the baby. You have no idea how wonderful and fun and delightful children are.
Keep the baby. You have no idea how wonderful and fun and delightful children are.
15
"deep down, he wants a baby too"
That's unwarranted and a very dangerous assumption.
That's unwarranted and a very dangerous assumption.
51
He thought you were on birth control but never asked, and had evidence to the contrary? Sorry, but that is complete nonsense. And the moral questions involved are a lot more straightforward than the wishy-washy response you received. The fact is he surrendered his choices when he decided to have unprotected sex with you. That's it. Now it's completely up to you. You need to weigh all the pros and cons, including his reluctance, and the fact that the child may resemble him, but I doubt that any of that will outweigh your concerns that at 38 you may not get another shot at motherhood. You don't have to let him off the hook completely either if you have the child. The important thing to keep in mind is that he made his choices (unprotected sex) and has to deal with the consequences. As a man I tend to be very sympathetic to men's rights when it comes to paternity. But it's ridiculous to suggest that it is OK for men to pressure their partners into having abortions, as if it were as simple as flicking a switch. It's just not up to him at this point, and if you decide to follow through, then the child would be his responsibility too.
42
Basically, the couple had unprotected sex with differing pregnancy intentions. The woman engaged in unprotected sex without making it entirely clear that she was not using birth control and, if pregnant, she would probably keep the baby. For his part, the man did not protect himself in accordance with his own preferences. But also, he did not understand her intentions (even though he probably should have factored them in). Perhaps he is slow, or naïve, or misunderstood her limited communications.
Although society says that "he should have known better," this case strikes me as non-consensual sex. In a high stakes situation, one of the partners failed to disclose her true status and intentions. She deceived her partner in harmful ways. It is unlikely that he would have engaged in unprotected sex with her under these conditions if he truly understood her intentions. And, she had a strong duty to disclose these intentions. If not, it's non-consensual sex, folks.
Although society says that "he should have known better," this case strikes me as non-consensual sex. In a high stakes situation, one of the partners failed to disclose her true status and intentions. She deceived her partner in harmful ways. It is unlikely that he would have engaged in unprotected sex with her under these conditions if he truly understood her intentions. And, she had a strong duty to disclose these intentions. If not, it's non-consensual sex, folks.
10
This man made a LOT of assumptions and never asked the woman DIRECTLY if she was on the Pill, or other contraception -- and did NOTHING to protect HER or himself -- for gods sake, he was also exposing himself to STDs.
Let's say no pregnancy resulted, BUT the man got HIV from having unprotected sex with an infected woman. Would he be mad at HER? blame her for HIS problem?
Sorry, but the man cannot be let off the hook. Clearly he had sex for his own selfish pleasure, and without regard for this woman or what might have happened to her.
He courted disaster from not just unplanned pregnancy, but STDs.
He's an idiot, but it's too late now to change the past. Stop crying over spilt milk.
Let's say no pregnancy resulted, BUT the man got HIV from having unprotected sex with an infected woman. Would he be mad at HER? blame her for HIS problem?
Sorry, but the man cannot be let off the hook. Clearly he had sex for his own selfish pleasure, and without regard for this woman or what might have happened to her.
He courted disaster from not just unplanned pregnancy, but STDs.
He's an idiot, but it's too late now to change the past. Stop crying over spilt milk.
4
Deliberate ignorance on both their parts does not mean non-consensual. Words have meaning and you don't get to redefine them based on some personal agenda to paint men as naive patsies and women as deceptive sirens. One assumes they are both of age, both of sound mind, and both aware that unprotected sex on either part can lead to an unplanned pregnancy. Yes, they BOTH should have known better. No one the victim, no one the perpetrator, no matter how much you rewrite the narrative.
3
Did you not read the part where she asked him to use a condom and he didn't and he never asked if she was on birth control? Play stupid games and win stupid prizes.
2
I am speechless and appalled. As a feminist and a liberal, I finally understand what the Christian right has been screaming about for years - if this is not a sign of the absolute decay of morality in America I don't know what is. How is this even an "ethical dilemma"? This is truly unacceptable. I don't know who I am more disgusted with - the father of this child, the mother of this child, or the New York Times for giving this question any time at all.
17
You certainly don't sound like a feminist or a liberal. What exactly are you so worked up about? If abortion is legal (which it is, and should continue to be), then there is nothing even unusual about this situation. Perhaps you don't like the words the LW uses? Perhaps you are angry that she has debating this issue at all. But if that's the case, then, regardless of your self-appointed credentials as feminist/liberal, you don't support a woman's right to her own body. Stop referring to yourself as a feminist. Stop referring to yourself as a liberal. You are neither.
12
I'm concerned with your casual use of the term "deadbeat dad". Is a mother who wishes someone else to take care of her financially a "deadbeat mom"?
8
What evidence do you have this woman would not financially support her own child?
Child support is precisely that -- SUPPORT for the CHILD. It has nothing to do with the mother's support or financial needs. The money is FOR THE CHILD.
Child support is precisely that -- SUPPORT for the CHILD. It has nothing to do with the mother's support or financial needs. The money is FOR THE CHILD.
3
Not one piece of advice was sound! Get another job!
6
My first husband and I did discuss having children before getting married. I wanted only 1, he wanted four (!!!). Yet when I got pregnant, he insisted that I have an abortion, because he "wasn't ready" - although we were both 35 years old at the time. After a lot of crying, I had the abortion, and began divorce proceedings shortly after.
I think that your behavior was foolish, but his was also irresponsible. So many of us have done foolish things! If you want the baby, have it.
I think that your behavior was foolish, but his was also irresponsible. So many of us have done foolish things! If you want the baby, have it.
24
I pretty much always give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm having a very difficult time understanding how this pregnancy is "accidental." If you shoot a gun and a bullet makes a hole in something, is that an accident? How can this woman not understand that pregnancy is practically inevitable if you regularly have sex and don't use any birth control?
It's disingenuous to claim both parties are equally at fault. His behavior wasn't prudent, but hers was catastrophically reckless. His great sin is assuming that she was rational enough to not want to get impregnated by someone she just started dating. So why did she? Is it really "uncharitable" of him to assume she made this happen intentionally?
She wants kids, has concerns about running out of time, and is entirely willing to waive his parental rights. For someone who never expected to be in such a situation, she's remarkably unfazed by the prospect of being a forty-something single mother with a toddler, who would have no other guardian or provider. She's also basically trading her chances of finding a long-term partner for this shot at motherhood. That's a lot to shrug off because of an accident.
None of this means she's legally obligated to abort against her wishes, of course. It just means her behavior was an abhorrent violation of this man's trust. She asks, "are there ethical implications to consider here?" The answer is a vehement yes, but they were only relevant before you created this zygote.
It's disingenuous to claim both parties are equally at fault. His behavior wasn't prudent, but hers was catastrophically reckless. His great sin is assuming that she was rational enough to not want to get impregnated by someone she just started dating. So why did she? Is it really "uncharitable" of him to assume she made this happen intentionally?
She wants kids, has concerns about running out of time, and is entirely willing to waive his parental rights. For someone who never expected to be in such a situation, she's remarkably unfazed by the prospect of being a forty-something single mother with a toddler, who would have no other guardian or provider. She's also basically trading her chances of finding a long-term partner for this shot at motherhood. That's a lot to shrug off because of an accident.
None of this means she's legally obligated to abort against her wishes, of course. It just means her behavior was an abhorrent violation of this man's trust. She asks, "are there ethical implications to consider here?" The answer is a vehement yes, but they were only relevant before you created this zygote.
18
Her behavior was an abhorrent violation of his trust? Are we to assume he didn't know how babies are made?
23
Lots of people marry after having children with someone else. My son is married to a woman who had two illegitimate with a boyfriend, prior to their marriage. They were 1 year and 2 years old at the time of the marriage. Later, my son adopted both girls and the biological father surrendered his parental rights (not having paid a dime of child support in all those years).
The idea that having a child prevents one from marrying later on is very out of date with present-day realities.
Also: I'd say both of these people have acted stupidly, immaturely and with callous disregard of biological reality. However -- only ONE of them is pregnant and going to either have an abortion or labor, delivery and birth of a child. That is the woman. Only SHE bears the physical trauma of either procedure, which is why ONLY SHE can be the final decider.
The idea that having a child prevents one from marrying later on is very out of date with present-day realities.
Also: I'd say both of these people have acted stupidly, immaturely and with callous disregard of biological reality. However -- only ONE of them is pregnant and going to either have an abortion or labor, delivery and birth of a child. That is the woman. Only SHE bears the physical trauma of either procedure, which is why ONLY SHE can be the final decider.
5
Hey buddy it's 2017 contraception is a shared responsibility. They were both reckless, but it seems only he was not prepared for the outcome.
2
I have more than one friend who aborted an ill-timed pregnancy in her late thirties and regretted doing so because she was not able to get pregnant when she tried again at a later date. (Not that long ago a woman carrying her first baby at 38 was referred to a "elderly.") Unfortunately you have no way of knowing if you will be able to conceive again, or carry a later-in-life pregnancy successfully to term, if you abort this pregnancy. I'm not trying to be alarmist - just realistic.
This being said, if we women truly believe that we have the right to choose, that right should extend to our sexual partners as well. I believe that if I have the unencumbered right to choose to terminate during the first twelve weeks of a pregnancy that my partner should have the right to completely opt out of having a child as well. Would the women who are saying that your partner should have accept the consequences because he "knew" that sex can lead to pregnancy be so quick to demand that a woman should not be allowed to have an abortion because she "knew" that sex can result in pregnancy? I don't think so, at least not among NY Times readers.
Having unprotected sex without telling your partner upfront that you were not using contraception was unethical. He should have asked - that was a mistake - but you lied by omission. That was unethical. Paradoxically, he has no right to demand that you abort, but I believe that he has every right to be let off the hook completely for child support.
This being said, if we women truly believe that we have the right to choose, that right should extend to our sexual partners as well. I believe that if I have the unencumbered right to choose to terminate during the first twelve weeks of a pregnancy that my partner should have the right to completely opt out of having a child as well. Would the women who are saying that your partner should have accept the consequences because he "knew" that sex can lead to pregnancy be so quick to demand that a woman should not be allowed to have an abortion because she "knew" that sex can result in pregnancy? I don't think so, at least not among NY Times readers.
Having unprotected sex without telling your partner upfront that you were not using contraception was unethical. He should have asked - that was a mistake - but you lied by omission. That was unethical. Paradoxically, he has no right to demand that you abort, but I believe that he has every right to be let off the hook completely for child support.
17
Sorry for repeating myself. I thought my comments had been edited when they didn't appear on Thursday.
Of course a man can be let off the hook financially, but he can never be off the hook emotionally if he's fathered a child. He knows he has a child and with that comes an obligation, and perhaps a host of other complicated emotions he wouldn't have expected.
There's just no good outcome here.
Maybe they had it right a couple of generations ago - maybe intercourse should be reserved for completely committed relationships....
Of course a man can be let off the hook financially, but he can never be off the hook emotionally if he's fathered a child. He knows he has a child and with that comes an obligation, and perhaps a host of other complicated emotions he wouldn't have expected.
There's just no good outcome here.
Maybe they had it right a couple of generations ago - maybe intercourse should be reserved for completely committed relationships....
9
You mean "marriage"? That completely committed institution that results in 50% divorce? Great idea.
1
No I mean committed relationships. Where people have integrity and a real partnership. This may or may not mean marriage.
How long has accidentally pregnant 38 been dating the clueless boyfriend? The answer seems to be "not long," based on the final comments. I'd guess only a few months, at best.
Regardless, the relationship is over. Choose to have the baby, the guy bails. Choose not to, the rift from this issue causes the guy to bail. It's not going to last, so accept it now and do not make it a factor.
As far as "I could have a baby later," uh, not really. Hoping to fall in love with a guy and have a baby? Why say that when already in a relationship with someone who doesn't agree? Finding a new guy, getting to the baby point in the relationship, and actually getting pregnant could take years when you're 38. Probably it is not going to happen. Freezing your eggs at 38 is pointless, and IVF beyond 40 is challenging. Many fertility clinics won't even take women over 40 because the odds of success are low. My wife and I spent two years and $38,000 to get our daughter on our second IVF attempt at 36.
So this is it. The one chance to be a mom. Unless there is a medical reason not to proceed, I think you go for it. And as far as the guy, he needs to financially support the child. His responsibility began the moment he had sex without a condom. It has better been great sex, because it is going to cost him the next 18 years. Maybe after this he'll actually take responsibility for himself, rather than acting like a dumb teenager.
Regardless, the relationship is over. Choose to have the baby, the guy bails. Choose not to, the rift from this issue causes the guy to bail. It's not going to last, so accept it now and do not make it a factor.
As far as "I could have a baby later," uh, not really. Hoping to fall in love with a guy and have a baby? Why say that when already in a relationship with someone who doesn't agree? Finding a new guy, getting to the baby point in the relationship, and actually getting pregnant could take years when you're 38. Probably it is not going to happen. Freezing your eggs at 38 is pointless, and IVF beyond 40 is challenging. Many fertility clinics won't even take women over 40 because the odds of success are low. My wife and I spent two years and $38,000 to get our daughter on our second IVF attempt at 36.
So this is it. The one chance to be a mom. Unless there is a medical reason not to proceed, I think you go for it. And as far as the guy, he needs to financially support the child. His responsibility began the moment he had sex without a condom. It has better been great sex, because it is going to cost him the next 18 years. Maybe after this he'll actually take responsibility for himself, rather than acting like a dumb teenager.
32
You posted exactly what I was thinking. Only thing I would say is different in reasons, is that the abortion will cause a rift that have her resenting him, not him bailing for "no reason"..
There is no path forward for this relationship regardless of abortion or not.
She should have the child. In the very unlikely event he sticks around (if she wants him at that point) should be considered a bonus...
There is no path forward for this relationship regardless of abortion or not.
She should have the child. In the very unlikely event he sticks around (if she wants him at that point) should be considered a bonus...
6
Regardless on what she finnaly does. This pregnancy will cast a shadow on their relationship. She should decide on the relationship first and then on the pregnancy.
It is very clear that the pregnant woman deceived her boyfriend and hoped to get pregnant although she knew he had no interest in that outcome. Proper birth control techniques are virtually foolproof now and she knew he believed she was on the pill. Her first sentence notwithstanding, this pregnancy was no "accident". I suppose it is possible she was hoping he would change his mind once the "fait" was "accompli" but that hasn't happened.
There is no question from a legal standpoint that she has the "right" to keep the pregnancy going to term. She does. There is no question that neither she nor he can guarantee he will not have to support the child financially. Neither one has that power. Courts are guided by "the best interests of the child" and the desires of either parent will not necessarily be controlling if the need is there some day.
If she keeps the pregnancy, and frankly even if she doesn't ,her boyfriend will know for evermore that she is dishonest. The relationship is destined for failure no matter what she does now. Keep the child or not, the relationship with this man is over; maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. No doubt in my mind.
There is no question from a legal standpoint that she has the "right" to keep the pregnancy going to term. She does. There is no question that neither she nor he can guarantee he will not have to support the child financially. Neither one has that power. Courts are guided by "the best interests of the child" and the desires of either parent will not necessarily be controlling if the need is there some day.
If she keeps the pregnancy, and frankly even if she doesn't ,her boyfriend will know for evermore that she is dishonest. The relationship is destined for failure no matter what she does now. Keep the child or not, the relationship with this man is over; maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. No doubt in my mind.
16
Birth control is certainly better than "rolling the dice"...but even methods like IUDs can fail. Not often, but it is possible. The Pill, even when properly taken, has a 1-2% failure rate.
This woman is so ambivalent, calling her fetus "a thing", that it is difficult to believe she INTENTIONALLY deceived anyone. These two immature idiots did not discuss nor use contraception, and they are not teenagers, nor uneducated, nor seem mentally incompetent.
Ambivalence causes people to do stupid things, hoping that "fate will make the decision for them".
One of my friends -- a lawyer with a six figure job -- got pregnant on a cruise with her husband -- when she OOPS! forgot to bring her diaphragm. He wouldn't use condoms, because that spoiled his fun. She suggested that they abstain for the 10 days of the trip. Well, he wouldn't do that either. She was 32 and ambivalent about having a baby, but once again: "man + woman + sex = baby".
When she called to tell me the results of her home pregnancy kit, her first words were "and I have to have an abortion!" Of course, I knew she would never abort a healthy baby while MARRIED to the father of that baby (they were very affluent, so no question here about finances).
Today the "baby" is a beautiful 22 year old who just graduated with honors from college -- the apple of her fathers eye -- and if I ever said "and hey! remember when you guys wanted to ABORT HER?" -- they'd act like I was a lunatic and never speak to me again.
This woman is so ambivalent, calling her fetus "a thing", that it is difficult to believe she INTENTIONALLY deceived anyone. These two immature idiots did not discuss nor use contraception, and they are not teenagers, nor uneducated, nor seem mentally incompetent.
Ambivalence causes people to do stupid things, hoping that "fate will make the decision for them".
One of my friends -- a lawyer with a six figure job -- got pregnant on a cruise with her husband -- when she OOPS! forgot to bring her diaphragm. He wouldn't use condoms, because that spoiled his fun. She suggested that they abstain for the 10 days of the trip. Well, he wouldn't do that either. She was 32 and ambivalent about having a baby, but once again: "man + woman + sex = baby".
When she called to tell me the results of her home pregnancy kit, her first words were "and I have to have an abortion!" Of course, I knew she would never abort a healthy baby while MARRIED to the father of that baby (they were very affluent, so no question here about finances).
Today the "baby" is a beautiful 22 year old who just graduated with honors from college -- the apple of her fathers eye -- and if I ever said "and hey! remember when you guys wanted to ABORT HER?" -- they'd act like I was a lunatic and never speak to me again.
3
Because he was so careful to prevent an unwanted pregnancy? Not!
4
She asked him to use a condom, that should have raised a flag that she was not on the pill. Contraception is not 100% on the woman and he is old enough to be less clueless.
4
Yes, they could have both could have done better with the birth control. What if in all due diligence they did a good job with the birth control and still got pregnant? In NYS it would still be up to the woman to choose to 1) have the child and keep him or her, 2) abort the child, or 3) have the child and give him or her up for adoption. The child only deserves to have the financial support of both parents if the woman chooses to keep the child. The man is required by the state to support children he was never ready to support and had no choice to keep. Yet, if a woman gets pregnant and is not ready to financially support a child she can choose not to. This is not gender equality and the term "deadbeat" is offensive.
6
That's simply not true. The mother is just as obligated to financially support the child as the father. Don't you ever watch Judge Judy?
8
Dad: in every US state, abortion is completely legal and has been for 44 years.
So every woman in the US can abort -- keep the child -- give the child up for adoption. There is a shortage of healthy white infants, so any one that came up for adoption, there would be 300 or more couples begging to adopt that child. The mother could choose open adoption or closed adoption as her preference, too.
A mother cannot refuse to financially support her children; where do you get this from? Of course she is obligated. And if there IS a father, if she does not lie on the birth certificate -- he has to agree to the adoption also. She could also give birth and surrender custody solely to the father.
BOTH parents are obligated to support their children financially and only in adoption can their parental rights be totally severed.
The state has a compelling interest to have parents support their own children, because otherwise, the burden falls on the taxpayers.
So every woman in the US can abort -- keep the child -- give the child up for adoption. There is a shortage of healthy white infants, so any one that came up for adoption, there would be 300 or more couples begging to adopt that child. The mother could choose open adoption or closed adoption as her preference, too.
A mother cannot refuse to financially support her children; where do you get this from? Of course she is obligated. And if there IS a father, if she does not lie on the birth certificate -- he has to agree to the adoption also. She could also give birth and surrender custody solely to the father.
BOTH parents are obligated to support their children financially and only in adoption can their parental rights be totally severed.
The state has a compelling interest to have parents support their own children, because otherwise, the burden falls on the taxpayers.
4
Why would anyone want to have a baby who will look like, be like, walk like, talk like, think like, etc. a man who is eager to abandon his child and the mother of his child, and to have someone out there who looks like him, IS like him, walks like him, talks like him, thinks like him, etc.?
3
A child is person of their own, and grow up to be their own self. Do you talk , walk and think like your father? What a silly thing to say.
21
Hi, I just wanted to weigh-in on the abortion question- if you are on the fence even a little, don't do it. I recently had an abortion and was completely unprepared for the emotional fall out. It's a tough decision to get much clarity on . There's the whole pro-life wing that just wants to make you feel guilty and shame you to not do it and then the pro-choice end that seems to think that even suggesting there's an emotional consequence will make women ashamed. I can't speak to the situation with your boyfriend but I can say that I got over the 'guilt' of terminating the pregnancy but not the loneliness of what could have been. It was hard to know in the chaos of an unplanned pregnancy that I would be left with such longing. It sounds like you want a baby- you have a baby, go for it! I was shocked how long it took my body to get back to normal after the abortion (still not there). I am also 38.
18
a
2
My life would've been completely changed if I had given birth to the child aborted when I was unmarried at 23, so I don't know if it was the right decision or not. The sadness over that loss lingers still 50 years later. I was never able to become pregnant again, despite the eventual desire for children.
5
1. You're in your late 30's.
2. You want to have children.
3. You're pregnant.
4. Your pregnancy resulted from consensual sex.
It may look like it's your dilemma and decision, but it looks to me like nature made the choice for you.
Nature chose life; I hope you can too.
2. You want to have children.
3. You're pregnant.
4. Your pregnancy resulted from consensual sex.
It may look like it's your dilemma and decision, but it looks to me like nature made the choice for you.
Nature chose life; I hope you can too.
21
She should have the child and he should support it financially and be involved in the child's life. Both of these people chose to gave sex and to be careless about birth control. The decision was made then, by both of them, if only subconsciously. And yes, I am pro-life, which colors my view, but even if. I were not, I would still have the baby in this woman's shoes, She's 38, not 28. This is more than likely her one chance to have a biological child.
11
Sorry, Bookworm8571, if a woman of 38 and her boyfriend don't bother ensuring that she won't get pregnant, they are too careless & too stupid to raise a child, singly or together. Parenting is hard, even for caring, diligent people, which this sorry pair obviously are not.
As a couple, they are the perfect moral argument for abotion.
As a couple, they are the perfect moral argument for abotion.
4
camorrista: in an ideal world, parents would be loving married couples and they would conceive a child out of that love -- be mature, grown up, have jobs and educations and a home.
But in the real world, a heck of a lot of people ARE careless and stupid and they have kids anyways. That is a fact of human existence.
If we depended ONLY on smart, mature people to propagate the human race....we'd have died out as a species long ago.
I recommend you view the excellent and funny film "Idiocracy". The first 10 minutes explain the whole thing better than I ever could.
But in the real world, a heck of a lot of people ARE careless and stupid and they have kids anyways. That is a fact of human existence.
If we depended ONLY on smart, mature people to propagate the human race....we'd have died out as a species long ago.
I recommend you view the excellent and funny film "Idiocracy". The first 10 minutes explain the whole thing better than I ever could.
4
To the first LW, since it is clear that this is the outcome your heart wants: you have the rest of your life to be grateful for the life of your child. And you will be. Wishing you and your coming son or daughter all the best.
10
"I am 38 and accidentally pregnant."
Sure, that's believable because 38 year old women don't know anything about contraception.
Here is what will happen if this woman has the baby with a man who does not want to be a father: He will resent her for the rest of his life, as she is changing his life irrevocably and, unless she is independently wealthy, the mother and child will live a lifetime of poverty and deprivation, just as have 10s of millions of women who chose this path have done.
Women have to right to decide what to do with their own bodies but, as with all rights, those choices come with responsibilities. This would be a good time to think about the life of the future child and not her own wants and needs.
Sure, that's believable because 38 year old women don't know anything about contraception.
Here is what will happen if this woman has the baby with a man who does not want to be a father: He will resent her for the rest of his life, as she is changing his life irrevocably and, unless she is independently wealthy, the mother and child will live a lifetime of poverty and deprivation, just as have 10s of millions of women who chose this path have done.
Women have to right to decide what to do with their own bodies but, as with all rights, those choices come with responsibilities. This would be a good time to think about the life of the future child and not her own wants and needs.
15
FSMLives!-- I agree and this is far from an ideal situation. Still -- it is what it is. You can't put spilled milk back into the carton.
I can't believe EITHER of these middle aged people were as stupid as described here, but we only have HER VERSION of things, and he might have a different take on it. They certainly are old enough to know better than this.
However: there is no evidence this woman is poor, or lacks a job or cannot care for her baby. Many working mothers NOT ON WELFARE raise happy, healthy children. She may have parents, siblings or friends who can assist her. She may have a very good paying job. It is not fair to assume she will be on welfare -- she's 38, after all, not 17.
Yes, the man may never come around and may resent her. So what? Their relationship was clearly not close, and he has acted like a jerk, so she is probably better off without him. He does owe support for his own children, and I hope she pursues this legally.
I can't believe EITHER of these middle aged people were as stupid as described here, but we only have HER VERSION of things, and he might have a different take on it. They certainly are old enough to know better than this.
However: there is no evidence this woman is poor, or lacks a job or cannot care for her baby. Many working mothers NOT ON WELFARE raise happy, healthy children. She may have parents, siblings or friends who can assist her. She may have a very good paying job. It is not fair to assume she will be on welfare -- she's 38, after all, not 17.
Yes, the man may never come around and may resent her. So what? Their relationship was clearly not close, and he has acted like a jerk, so she is probably better off without him. He does owe support for his own children, and I hope she pursues this legally.
3
Keep the child.
When in doubt choose life.
Ask any woman who chose to keep her child if she has regrets. Ask any woman who decided to dispose of her child if she had regrets.
It may be possible that your boyfriend will experience an epiphany once he becomes a father.
When in doubt choose life.
Ask any woman who chose to keep her child if she has regrets. Ask any woman who decided to dispose of her child if she had regrets.
It may be possible that your boyfriend will experience an epiphany once he becomes a father.
10
I have asked, and yes there are women who regret it. They will never say it to someone's face, but there are plenty who have written it anonymously. There are plenty of terrible mothers out there who clearly do not enjoy motherhood.
18
#1: see the book by Rosanna Hertz "Single by Chance, Mothers by Choice: How Women are Choosing Parenthood without Marriage." It is not uncommon any longer for middle class women to keep an unexpected pregnancy in such a situation if their biological clock is ticking. But definitely a good idea to see a therapist and think this through carefully; being a single mom isn't easy and you will need support from family and friends. I am not dismissing your bf's feelings, however, and that makes this more complicated. This is complicated and I wish all of you the best.
7
not at all complicated, and I am easily dismissing his feelings - too bad for him -
does he understand how pregnancies occur?
does he understand how pregnancies occur?
6
To fully understand the underlying ethics of this debate lets ignore the contraception issue; that is incidental and particular to this case. Suppose conception occurred despite contraception used by both parties. Suppose the man' condom broke but the woman (falsely) assures him that she is on birth control. Very unlikely but not impossible. My understanding is that a woman still has every legal right decide the embryos fate and the man not. In fact the child, once born, has rights with respect to the father even if the mother thinks she can waive these right on the child' behalf.
Before conception the man has the right to consent to have intercourse and impregnate a woman or not and the woman has the right to agree to have intercourse and be impregnated or not. After conception, the woman has all the rights while the man and the embryo have none. And after birth the child (formerly the embryo) has right with respect to the man and the woman.
I am curious what people think about this.
Before conception the man has the right to consent to have intercourse and impregnate a woman or not and the woman has the right to agree to have intercourse and be impregnated or not. After conception, the woman has all the rights while the man and the embryo have none. And after birth the child (formerly the embryo) has right with respect to the man and the woman.
I am curious what people think about this.
3
I think that contraception is absolutely central to the issue. If this pregnancy were truly accidental, the result of a contraceptive failure, I would absolutely support the woman's right to be the one to decide whether to carry the baby to term.
But in this particular situation there appears to have been deceit involved. We don't know exactly why the man "assumed" that she was using contraception. But we do know that she was not using contraception and she did NOTHING to correct the man's belief that they were indeed protected against an unwanted pregnancy. That was a lie of omission on her part. In short, she deceived the man, if not by an outright lie than by omitting to tell the truth. Her question was not "should I go ahead and have the baby." Her question was "are there any ethical implications. In my opinion, yes, you deceived your sexual partner and a pregnancy is the result. It's no different than a man poking holes in a condom because he wants her to be pregnant and she doesn't want to be.
But in this particular situation there appears to have been deceit involved. We don't know exactly why the man "assumed" that she was using contraception. But we do know that she was not using contraception and she did NOTHING to correct the man's belief that they were indeed protected against an unwanted pregnancy. That was a lie of omission on her part. In short, she deceived the man, if not by an outright lie than by omitting to tell the truth. Her question was not "should I go ahead and have the baby." Her question was "are there any ethical implications. In my opinion, yes, you deceived your sexual partner and a pregnancy is the result. It's no different than a man poking holes in a condom because he wants her to be pregnant and she doesn't want to be.
5
Todd: both parties acted like imbeciles here, as if they did not know the rudimentary rules of conception.
I am amazed this man never got anyone pregnant BEFORE since he won't use condoms and simply "assumes" each woman is on the Pill. (Or maybe he has some secrets that she doesn't know? other children he has fathered? he doesn't sound honest or trustworthy!)
I don't think either of them acted responsibly or maturely, but the fact is, NOW IT IS A DONE DEAL and she is pregnant. In the long run, it does not matter who said what and you couldn't prove "pillow talk" anyways.
The thing about pregnancy is it is a REALITY you simply cannot deny. You have to DEAL WITH IT. And this man will have to deal with it and stop acting like a man-child who is whining because he couldn't have all the condom-free "fun times" he wanted.
I am amazed this man never got anyone pregnant BEFORE since he won't use condoms and simply "assumes" each woman is on the Pill. (Or maybe he has some secrets that she doesn't know? other children he has fathered? he doesn't sound honest or trustworthy!)
I don't think either of them acted responsibly or maturely, but the fact is, NOW IT IS A DONE DEAL and she is pregnant. In the long run, it does not matter who said what and you couldn't prove "pillow talk" anyways.
The thing about pregnancy is it is a REALITY you simply cannot deny. You have to DEAL WITH IT. And this man will have to deal with it and stop acting like a man-child who is whining because he couldn't have all the condom-free "fun times" he wanted.
3
#1- Echoing what some others have said, this was not an accidental pregnancy. She may not have deliberately entrapped her boyfriend, but she knew she wasn't using birth control, and that he didn't want to be a father. It really does take 2 to tango.
All of that said, it's her body and her decision. If she wants the baby, she should have the baby. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, even voluntarily waiving fatherhood rights still leaves the man on the hook for child support. I don't think it would be ethical to pursue child support, though the state might do it anyway.
All of that said, it's her body and her decision. If she wants the baby, she should have the baby. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand, even voluntarily waiving fatherhood rights still leaves the man on the hook for child support. I don't think it would be ethical to pursue child support, though the state might do it anyway.
12
There are no "fatherhood rights" you can legally "waive" unless the child is being adopted by someone else, who is standing up to support the child financially.
You can, of course, just be jerk and loser, and not pay support, and move out of state, and never visit the child or be a real father. Millions of men do that.
But there is no legal to way to say "she tricked me! she forced me to have sex without a condom!" and get out of child support.
You can, of course, just be jerk and loser, and not pay support, and move out of state, and never visit the child or be a real father. Millions of men do that.
But there is no legal to way to say "she tricked me! she forced me to have sex without a condom!" and get out of child support.
4
As an FYI, with the pregnant lady -- regardless of whether she "promises" not to seek child support from the boyfriend, he is on the hook for it if she ever changes her mind. Whether he wanted the child or not, he's financially responsible legally speaking (and could, obviously, have prevented the pregnancy from happening). The writer's irresponsibility in not using birth control is another thing. I mean, really????
8
Interesting way to go about having a child. No planning, no thoughtfulness, no partner...and in the entire discussion no mention of what effect this may have on the kid. It'd make for an interesting story some day, particularly if the kid learns to do good internet searches. While pregnancy is not guaranteed neither is being able to live with that person looking at you from the other side of the mirror. Have fun with that.
5
I would ditch the boyfriend whatever your decision is regarding the baby. He sounds immature and selfish. It's your body and you will ultimately be responsible for the child. Do what you want. If you keep the baby, you might consider having legal documents drawn up where the father waives his responsibilities and also his rights.
6
he gets to pay child support / too bad for him.
3
She has the right to choose. That is not in dispute.
What I'm not hearing is why she wants a child. "It's now or never" is not a reason.
What I'm not hearing is why she wants a child. "It's now or never" is not a reason.
18
It's part of a reason, as in I want a child and may not have another chance to have one so it is likely now or never.
7
I will make a comment about the first question.
You have every right to have the baby.
You have no obligation to listen to the father in this case if he does not want the child.
Life is precious .
You can be pro abortion and still feel this way about this life that that is growing in your body because it is your baby not some hypothetical one.
So the fact you are pro choice should not be a reason not to end the pregnancy.
Do you want to stay with this guy.
If you do and then you have to decide what you should do.
He has the right to leave you.
He even has the right to leave this relationship and not have one with the child.
It would be my opinion he shouldn't even have a obligation to support this child in any way.
If you agree with the above and you still want the child I believe you should not end the pregnancy.
If you disagree with the above and feel you can force him to support this child then you should abort.
You have every right to have the baby.
You have no obligation to listen to the father in this case if he does not want the child.
Life is precious .
You can be pro abortion and still feel this way about this life that that is growing in your body because it is your baby not some hypothetical one.
So the fact you are pro choice should not be a reason not to end the pregnancy.
Do you want to stay with this guy.
If you do and then you have to decide what you should do.
He has the right to leave you.
He even has the right to leave this relationship and not have one with the child.
It would be my opinion he shouldn't even have a obligation to support this child in any way.
If you agree with the above and you still want the child I believe you should not end the pregnancy.
If you disagree with the above and feel you can force him to support this child then you should abort.
2
Oh, gosh. Quit thinking about the right to have babies, and think about the baby.
31
Regarding the pregnancy, I go to the "what if the situation/characters were reversed" question. So, what if you "accidentally" got pregnant and your boyfriend wanted you to have the baby against your wishes? Because, really, once you have the baby, it goes beyond the "right to my body" argument and you have a real live human being who will have legal rights viz a viz the father. Neither you, as a mother, nor your boyfriend, as the father, have the legal standing to contract away another human being's right to support from her/his parent. So, if you wouldn't let your boyfriend "force" you to bring a human being into this world, neither should you "force" him to do same. The fact that you happen to have the biology to carry the baby doesn't mean that you should ask/"force" someone else to do what you yourself would find objectionable.
6
I fail to understand why men who make it clear that they don't want children and, indeed, advocate for abortion as their "right," refuse to consider getting a vasectomy before they get a woman pregnant. It seems to me that vasectomies are easier and cheaper for men to get than just any permanent procedure that a woman has to get in order to keep from getting pregnant. It also seems to me that men who don't want children and who refuse to get a vasectomy lose their right to pitch any kind of fit about a woman's unplanned pregnancy, much less have the right to voice an opinion on whether or not she keeps the baby.
18
There is a Nordic country (Sweden?) that allows women complete control of their reproductive rights while respecting a men's rights by allowing him to sign off at birth that he will never have contact with the child. In doing so he is absolved of any financial responsibilities for the child.
Equity? Sounds good to me.
Equity? Sounds good to me.
9
It's really hard to get pregnant (and not miscarry) at age 38. Fertility goes into a steep & pretty sudden drop around 39-41. If this is a healthy pregnancy and you want the baby, I would certainly continue.
You can express sympathy for your boyfriend's point of view and explain your reasoning to him. However, he should really understand that this is one of your last opportunities to have a child. It's particularly egregious since he was so thoughtless about birth control himself -- he bears responsibility and should not shift it onto you. He may make peace with the fact of the baby in time - this is an emotional moment for him and he is probably not thinking too clearly. Good luck.
You can express sympathy for your boyfriend's point of view and explain your reasoning to him. However, he should really understand that this is one of your last opportunities to have a child. It's particularly egregious since he was so thoughtless about birth control himself -- he bears responsibility and should not shift it onto you. He may make peace with the fact of the baby in time - this is an emotional moment for him and he is probably not thinking too clearly. Good luck.
10
Drop the boyfriend, keep the child. Boyfriends come and go. A daughter or son is a joy (and work, and pain, and effort) forever.
14
When you become pregnant you have three perspectives to consider: yours, the potential child, and the father. You may deeply regret choosing not to have the child if that's what you really want. Or you may find that it's a relief not to be pregnant. So first, think of yourself and your needs. Second, if you decide to have the child, you'll have to deal with the child alone, and be prepared to meet that child's needs without a partner. You must prepare as well to address the child's questions about her/his father. Be sure you're ready to face these inevitable challenges. As for the father, he's been given a wide range of options but he cannot force you to terminate this pregnancy. We all have to deal with the consequences of our actions. he will have to deal with his just as you will have to deal with yours.
4
There are two clear sides to this. The ethical and the practical.
It wasn't ethical to allow this man to assume you were using birth control when you weren't. This was wrong. I don't think there's any doubt about it. At the beginning of your letter you said you got pregnant by accident. "Accidentally on purpose" we used to call something this. There's no way around it, you wronged your partner. But you already know this. It's done.
The remaining question is will you put your needs over your partners, or will you potentially hurt yourself by aborting a pregnancy that you want? You're 38. Even if you met Mister Right tomorrow, it would not be unreasonable to expect to give a relationship a year or more to progress to the point of a commitment strong enough to have a child together, so you're creeping up on 40. But you already knew this too, and you know the statistics.
As I said in an earlier comment that does not seem to have been published, this is a conundrum. I second the advice that you seek outside help in solving it. Not from an advice columnist, but from someone who can help you understand what motivated you to put yourself in this position and possibly arrive at a solution which minimizes the damage.
I think it's a fascinating issue. At the root of it is the question of whether we apply the same standards to men and women. If a woman was denied an abortion we'd call her situation forced motherhood. Does the same apply to a man?
It wasn't ethical to allow this man to assume you were using birth control when you weren't. This was wrong. I don't think there's any doubt about it. At the beginning of your letter you said you got pregnant by accident. "Accidentally on purpose" we used to call something this. There's no way around it, you wronged your partner. But you already know this. It's done.
The remaining question is will you put your needs over your partners, or will you potentially hurt yourself by aborting a pregnancy that you want? You're 38. Even if you met Mister Right tomorrow, it would not be unreasonable to expect to give a relationship a year or more to progress to the point of a commitment strong enough to have a child together, so you're creeping up on 40. But you already knew this too, and you know the statistics.
As I said in an earlier comment that does not seem to have been published, this is a conundrum. I second the advice that you seek outside help in solving it. Not from an advice columnist, but from someone who can help you understand what motivated you to put yourself in this position and possibly arrive at a solution which minimizes the damage.
I think it's a fascinating issue. At the root of it is the question of whether we apply the same standards to men and women. If a woman was denied an abortion we'd call her situation forced motherhood. Does the same apply to a man?
6
I was 25 and yes it was an accident . Like yours, my boyfriend insisted on aborting it. I kept it, he tried to stick around until our son turned 18months . One day he disappeared without a trace . I raised that child on my own, I was scared to get anywhere near a man again. Never married , I dedicated my life to my son. Now he is 26, he is my everything, my best friend , he makes me laugh all the time, he is the best thing ever happened to my life. He taught me football rules and we watch it together ( sometimes I challenged what I thought a bad call from referee and he would look with disbelief that how much I know the game , and he is kind of proud ). Anyway , I don't regret a thing . When he was 18, I told him the whole story on how he came to this world ! ( now the dad tried to get in touch and apologized and said he made huge mistake for abandoning us!....). And nature would have it MY GOD THEY LOOK SO MUCH ALIKE, if they were twins . Back to you, at 38, accident ? Maybe but you will be just fine on having this human being to be part of your life like many others moms before you. Good luck!!
12
"He (my son) ... is my best friend". Clue no. 1 that you do not comprehend the role of parenting, and have placed your own needs above all others. Ethics, American style.
3
Age 39 pregnant -he's a boyfriend and not a fiancé. If you think he will become your husband, then his reluctance to have children is meaningful. If not, then you can keep the child and probably lose the boyfriend over time. Some people really don't like to be around kids. I wish more people realized this before they produced children and became terrible parents.
Rape Studies - Not sure how her being a survivor could make rape any worse than it already is.
Roommate- I think it's best to go for the judgment. The ex-roommate is chronically unreliable and NW is not her therapist. Letting her off the hook will be even more unpleasant when NW sees her still addicted and using "NW's" money. If she is still on drugs, there is better than average chance that she may die fairly soon. To deduct the financial loss, NW at least has to have made an effort to recover it. If this sounds cold-blooded, it's supposed to. If NW met her on the street and she asked NW for several hundred dollars, the answer would be, "No". This is no different, except that NW knows she is addicted. Even less reason to give her money.
Rape Studies - Not sure how her being a survivor could make rape any worse than it already is.
Roommate- I think it's best to go for the judgment. The ex-roommate is chronically unreliable and NW is not her therapist. Letting her off the hook will be even more unpleasant when NW sees her still addicted and using "NW's" money. If she is still on drugs, there is better than average chance that she may die fairly soon. To deduct the financial loss, NW at least has to have made an effort to recover it. If this sounds cold-blooded, it's supposed to. If NW met her on the street and she asked NW for several hundred dollars, the answer would be, "No". This is no different, except that NW knows she is addicted. Even less reason to give her money.
6
Can't believe no one in the comments has spoken about the rights of the unborn baby! You are not giving the baby the opportunity to have a relationship with a father given your bf has insisted he wants nothing to do with it. To bring a child into the world in those circumstances...that to me is very cruel. Abortion to me is the only answer here and I think it's wrong when the "desire to be a mother" overwhelms the right of a child to both a mother AND a father.
6
Many people were born under less than ideal circumstances. Even if the boyfriend wants no part of the child there are often other men, e.g. family members, teachers, etc. who can be mentors and surrogate fathers to such a child. And who's to say that at some point the mother might not find a loving husband who will also love and accept the child as his own. There would be mighty few people in this world if life was restricted to those in ideal circumstances at the time of their conception.
8
By their late 30s, men should certainly know the consequences of unprotected sex, and how the whole mechanism works, and should also know that at the end of the day, the woman is, rightly, in control of her own body, and her own pregnancy. An abortion cannot be forced, and sometimes birth control fails, so the "what if" conversation should be had prior to intercourse.
If the boyfriend doesn't want a baby, or even to know that a child with his DNA exists in the world, then he shouldn't have had sex without clarifying possible outcomes and responses. And pregnancy is a well known outcome.
Have the baby if you want it. It is your body. Enjoy parenthood. The father might come around at some point, anyway.
If the boyfriend doesn't want a baby, or even to know that a child with his DNA exists in the world, then he shouldn't have had sex without clarifying possible outcomes and responses. And pregnancy is a well known outcome.
Have the baby if you want it. It is your body. Enjoy parenthood. The father might come around at some point, anyway.
7
I am pro-choice and a feminist.
If she wants the child, she should have it.
Since the father is only a boyfriend and does not want children (or perhaps does not want *her* to have his child), she should terminate her relationship with the boyfriend ASAP. She should get a lawyer and have the father sign away all paternal rights regarding the child as well as all paternal responsibility.
I hope she has the child.
If she wants the child, she should have it.
Since the father is only a boyfriend and does not want children (or perhaps does not want *her* to have his child), she should terminate her relationship with the boyfriend ASAP. She should get a lawyer and have the father sign away all paternal rights regarding the child as well as all paternal responsibility.
I hope she has the child.
7
LW 1 - if your boyfriend suddenly disappeared tomorrow, would you want to have this baby? Because at this point, his disrespectful bullying behavior is not that of a loving, involved partner. He's not that for you, whether you're pregnant or not. Start from there.
6
Keep the baby. Your boyfriend needs to learn how to take responsibility for his actions.
6
Short answer: yes, you can. It is your body that will undergo abortion or pregnancy and the choice between them is yours. As has been said here, your boyfriend had plenty of scope to make sure this didn't happen, now it's out of his hands.
6
Okay, the ethical issue that she has ignored is whether it is right to become a mother of a child that neither she nor the father truly wants.
She wants the whole romantic package and is currently equivocal at best and he doesn't want children at all.
So, the ethical choice of action is whether to have the child and give it up for adoption to a loving family or to abort it.
In any case, grow up already!
She wants the whole romantic package and is currently equivocal at best and he doesn't want children at all.
So, the ethical choice of action is whether to have the child and give it up for adoption to a loving family or to abort it.
In any case, grow up already!
1
What the woman wants, what the man wants! Has anyone thought to ask the baby what he/she wants? If he could answer, I'd bet he'd choose life.
7
So the man lacks imagination. He has no idea, really, what he wants or doesn't want. He would not be the first man in the world to discover when he sees the baby that he loves it.
6
So get an attorney and have her protect your child's rights with court orders. And make "him" pay the costs. And make sure he agrees to never come within a country mile of his obligations. Tell him, if u can't do the time, don't do the crime. Let St. Peter decide.
As for his "wishes" as with any common criminal, he can be compelled. We are no longer in the days when property was given only to the eldest son, or whatever common name you may want to call the spawn.
Don't lay this blame on your child. Cause by law to make him pay and keep his distance if for no other reason than his reluctance.
As for his "wishes" as with any common criminal, he can be compelled. We are no longer in the days when property was given only to the eldest son, or whatever common name you may want to call the spawn.
Don't lay this blame on your child. Cause by law to make him pay and keep his distance if for no other reason than his reluctance.
2
The 38 year old clearly deceived the man, who thought she was on birth control. These are unfortunately nasty tricks that aging women play on men. Women need provider males, and they will stop at nothing. No wonder he does not want a child with her.
Hopefully he will manage to avoid child support.
Hopefully he will manage to avoid child support.
3
You are pregnant due to both of you engaging in the act. You may want the child. He does not. Despite any other consideration you mention it is ultimately your own decision to make. If you think yourself mature and strong, then you can raise a child. If you are not mature and strong you'd be wise not to. Get expert counseling to help you determine your readiness. Do not decide financial support now. Your circumstances may change at any point and the child deserves adequate financial support. Above all be honest with yourself for the sake of yourself and the possible child. Separate from this man because he is not interested in the child. Good luck!
5
If you don't want to have a child as a man, ever, get a vasectomy . Otherwise there is always a risk even if you both use birth control or one of you uses birth control.
11
To 38-And-Accidentially-Pregnant: This IS your Miracle Baby! I say this in the strongest possible terms. Just because this baby didn't cost you a chunk of your savings doesn't make her or him any less of a miracle. Assuming that you will be equally lucky on a subsequent try is a step too far. More likely, after burning through your savings, you will then come to appreciate the miracle that is now yours for the taking. It would be unbearable to terminate and then live to regret it.
8
Speaking as the unwanted adult child of a man who never wanted children my disgust for the man knows no bounds. To dismiss children as an inconvenient side effect of sexual pleasure is despicable. He should learn to self pleasure and keep out of women.
Note, this cold selfish natural father may one day be involved or even end up primary caretaker unless the woman takes legal steps to ensure otherwise.
Note, this cold selfish natural father may one day be involved or even end up primary caretaker unless the woman takes legal steps to ensure otherwise.
6
Women and men each have the absolute right to choose whether or not to become parents, although these rights are exercised at different times in the baby-making process. Because each party controls his or her own body, men control their sperm donation, women control their pregnancy.
His unwillingness to father a child in no way obliges her to terminate her pregnancy nor to relieve him of the financial consequences of his having failed his responsibility to himself. Yes, this is a regrettable situation for dad, but he does not have any right to tell mom what she can or cannot do with her body. As for mom's politics, being pro-choice no more obliges mom to terminate her own pregnancy than being pro-First Amendment obliges me to publish a newspaper or believe in god.
His unwillingness to father a child in no way obliges her to terminate her pregnancy nor to relieve him of the financial consequences of his having failed his responsibility to himself. Yes, this is a regrettable situation for dad, but he does not have any right to tell mom what she can or cannot do with her body. As for mom's politics, being pro-choice no more obliges mom to terminate her own pregnancy than being pro-First Amendment obliges me to publish a newspaper or believe in god.
4
Too bad for him that he doesn't want to be a father. The clear rule to avoid this is not to have sex with a woman. As for forcing her to have an abortion, he has no standing, legally or morally.
As for child support, he has no choice. It's absurd that a man this age (presumably) still has not taught through adult consequences for being an adult.
As for child support, he has no choice. It's absurd that a man this age (presumably) still has not taught through adult consequences for being an adult.
10
About keeping the baby: 1) asking if you can keep the baby communicates the sense you feel the decision is about a baby, not a fetus, and not about "boyfriend"; 2) the pregnancy was not accidental on your part or his because he assumed the same risk while wearing a condom, and you assumed the risk of not using contraceptive protection; 3) when youbhave this baby, he or she will be a legal person with his or her own rights, and child support is for the child, not for you. Even if "boyfriend" can legally end his parental rights, is this a door you want to close forever on the child's behalf? "Boyfriend" is not a sperm donor, whether that is his current preference or not. What is the true narrative you want to share with the child when she or he asks? I know you want to have a baby, but also prepare to raise a human being who won't be a baby for long.
1
To the woman wondering about keeping her baby. I am also a woman in her thirties and also pro-choice. But, I have two children and I am saying this woman to woman: if you are leaning at all to wanting the baby, keep it. You will not regret it. You may be super fertile, but it is still not easy to get pregnant at your age. (Sorry to be blunt, but you know, woman to woman....) It is much more likely you would regret terminating the pregnancy.
I agree the opinion of the father has some weight. He is important too (fathers all are). But, it is absolutely your decision and you should do what you want. This is your chance to have a child and be a mother. I am happily married to a great husband and father. And even with that, if I got pregnant again (we are done with two), I would consider his opinion, but I would make the final choice. Our bodies are not democracies.
Finally, because I am not sure if anyone else said it: congratulations! It is really wonderful news that another smart, lovely woman might be bringing a new child into her life and the world. Good luck!
I agree the opinion of the father has some weight. He is important too (fathers all are). But, it is absolutely your decision and you should do what you want. This is your chance to have a child and be a mother. I am happily married to a great husband and father. And even with that, if I got pregnant again (we are done with two), I would consider his opinion, but I would make the final choice. Our bodies are not democracies.
Finally, because I am not sure if anyone else said it: congratulations! It is really wonderful news that another smart, lovely woman might be bringing a new child into her life and the world. Good luck!
11
This article interested me because the title said "Can I Keep a Baby My Boyfriend Doesn’t Want?". That interested me because that's a good question because the baby is half yours and half is. Is it fair for you to not to get an abortion or not fair for your boyfriend to do that for you? I mean I think if your boyfriend didn't want a baby he should've been more engaged if you were taking birth control pills but I guess he wasn't concerned. So I think you should be able to keep a baby your boyfriend doesn't want.
4
My suspicion is that the "boyfriend" does not ever want to have children - with this particular woman.
9
More the reason to dump him and have the baby.
1
As a male and someone who engaged in similar behavior, you should have the baby. One can imagine a whole city and bring it into being, but you can't begin to imagine what this child will be like. He/she is beyond your imagining. You'll find yourself in awe at the beauty and wonder of this little child each day. Take heart and have the child. I did the same, and I'm thankful I did each day.
9
To the pregnant woman: Imagine yourself locked in a cage with this man for the rest of your life. The baby will be you and the man locked in a body/mind for a lifetime.
I think many women have abortions because the thought of bringing a monster into the world is unbearable.
Do you want to raise this man's child? Be reminded of him every minute? Etc. Have an abortion.
I think many women have abortions because the thought of bringing a monster into the world is unbearable.
Do you want to raise this man's child? Be reminded of him every minute? Etc. Have an abortion.
4
This is not only his child, but her child as well. The child is innocent here. If the woman would be too painfully reminded of the child's father (in this case more like just sperm donor) then she might consider giving up the baby for adoption.
3
Case #1:
This woman has two choices: keep the baby or keep the boyfriend. She can't have both. If she is financially able to care for the child, and it means more to her than the BF, have the baby. If the BF is more important (and she's optimistic the relationship will last), end the pregnancy. I don't see any other alternatives.
This woman has two choices: keep the baby or keep the boyfriend. She can't have both. If she is financially able to care for the child, and it means more to her than the BF, have the baby. If the BF is more important (and she's optimistic the relationship will last), end the pregnancy. I don't see any other alternatives.
2
Leave the guy. Take the bambino.
12
If you want to be a mother then you should absolutely proceed with the pregnancy. Don't expect diddly from the father. But do insist on child support. if not for you to raise the child then deposit into an account for the child's education. I wouldn't be so quick to give up your rights to child support. It's for the child, not you personally. It's his legal obligation for having conceived a child. This is not an equal situation between man and woman. Sorry, guy who likes to have unprotected and irresponsible sex!
8
You say...I'm leaning heavily towards having the baby.
One of the initial fundamental things about becoming a mother is the change in your method of decision making. Each decision involves how it will affect the child, then how it will affect the mother. All other parties concerned can jump in a big fat lake, cause there is a vulnerable life at stake.
Follow where you are leaning and have that baby. Some will rise up and support you, the rest can dance in that big fat lake.
One of the initial fundamental things about becoming a mother is the change in your method of decision making. Each decision involves how it will affect the child, then how it will affect the mother. All other parties concerned can jump in a big fat lake, cause there is a vulnerable life at stake.
Follow where you are leaning and have that baby. Some will rise up and support you, the rest can dance in that big fat lake.
5
If you want, truly want, and will love this baby unconditionally, follow your heart and have the baby. You don't need his permission. He doesn't have the right to force you to abort, just like men in government don't have the right to prevent women from accessing this same procedure.
You are 38. You are not a child. Ask yourself if you have the wherewithal to raise a child on your own. Remember it takes time, devotion, and yes, money. And love. If you have that to offer, then kiss the boyfriend goodbye and be a mom.
He says you can try again or meet someone else? Say goodbye anyway. He sounds like an irresponsible, inconsiderate jerk.
You are 38. You are not a child. Ask yourself if you have the wherewithal to raise a child on your own. Remember it takes time, devotion, and yes, money. And love. If you have that to offer, then kiss the boyfriend goodbye and be a mom.
He says you can try again or meet someone else? Say goodbye anyway. He sounds like an irresponsible, inconsiderate jerk.
9
You may or may not have another chance to have a child. Keep the pregnancy. Don't ask for child support if it comes to that.
3
If you ask a man, "Should I favor a man's point of view?", what kind of answer do you think you'll get?
You should definitely keep the baby, but if you want to do something on your own, you have to have the strength to be on your own.
Why don't you talk to some other women in your circumstances? There are many individuals and groups available. Your baby will be fine, and so will you.
You should definitely keep the baby, but if you want to do something on your own, you have to have the strength to be on your own.
Why don't you talk to some other women in your circumstances? There are many individuals and groups available. Your baby will be fine, and so will you.
2
Ultimately its the mothers choice. Both partners could have insisted on birth control. They didn't. And even if the bc failed, its still the mothers choice. Its her body and its her life. She may be 'healthy' now, but things can change in the blink of an eye. If she wants the baby, she should have it and keep it.
Do fathers have rights? Yes they do. Should they share responsibility? Hopefully they will do so, although many do not. Should men have veto power over women's choices? Nope. Ultimately, if this woman allows the boyfriend to talk her into an abortion she doesn't want, the relationship is doomed anyway.
Do fathers have rights? Yes they do. Should they share responsibility? Hopefully they will do so, although many do not. Should men have veto power over women's choices? Nope. Ultimately, if this woman allows the boyfriend to talk her into an abortion she doesn't want, the relationship is doomed anyway.
3
38 and pregnant: In this day and age there is no such thing as an accidental pregnancy, sorry. As the woman you have the most control over getting pregnant or not. To me, you were a bit deceptive in your behaviour and are more to blame than him. I can appreciate that he is angry with you pregnant after only a few months of dating. However now that you are pregnant, it is your decision on whether to keep the baby or not. If you want the baby keep it, but don't expect the man to be cooperative either as to financial or emotional support and don't expect he will stay with you -- you must look at whether you really want this baby and can appreciate it and care for it on its own, for a long time -- if so, then have it and let the chips fall where they may with the guy.
3
If a man is so sure he doesn't want children, he should get a vasectomy. It is a simpler procedure than an abortion, and it can be reversed.
11
Keep the baby, it's half your creation. Let him sign any papers necessary to get out of responsibility if you can afford it. You sound capable of doing it yourself.
Dump him. He sounds like he'd make a lousy father anyway.
At 38 you haven't much more time to get pregnant again. Wait any longer and the chances will get slimmer. Do you want to look like an older mother or the child's grandmother when he's in college.
Take extra care next time in choosing a a man.
Dump him. He sounds like he'd make a lousy father anyway.
At 38 you haven't much more time to get pregnant again. Wait any longer and the chances will get slimmer. Do you want to look like an older mother or the child's grandmother when he's in college.
Take extra care next time in choosing a a man.
4
Actually, your fertility doesn't go down when you hit your forties. The study that made that claim was based on data from the 1600s, a time before modern medicine and fertility treatment existed. A recent episode of Adam Ruins Everything debunks this claim.
https://www.themarysue.com/adam-ruins-pregnancy/
https://www.themarysue.com/adam-ruins-pregnancy/
1
To anyone reading Aidan's comment - please do NOT believe it! On average, fertility declines throughout the 30s and plummets after 40. Some women can still get pregnant at 45, but for others 35 is already too late. For any individual woman, there is really no way to know when fertility will come to an end.
As for the modern medicine/fertility treatment argument, science has allowed older women to become pregnant with donor eggs. The length of natural fertility (own eggs) has not been extended.
As for the modern medicine/fertility treatment argument, science has allowed older women to become pregnant with donor eggs. The length of natural fertility (own eggs) has not been extended.
5
She can terminate this pregnancy, which takes the boyfriend out of the picture, and then make an effort to get pregnant again, perhaps through an anonymous donor.
This should be happening very quickly. Time is wasting'...
This should be happening very quickly. Time is wasting'...
3
While I'm pro-choice, if you are trying to figure out the ethical thing to do, I don't see how you can just ignore the interests of the baby [fn1] and treat the matter as if it were a tie vote 1-1. It's really 2-1 in favor of keeping the baby, so keep it.
FN1. The notion coming out in some other comments that the interests of the baby weigh against having the baby because he/she might be bummed about having an uninvolved father are shocking and absurd, for reasons that can be illustrated by this simple question: would you rather be dead, or alive and healthy but with no father?
FN1. The notion coming out in some other comments that the interests of the baby weigh against having the baby because he/she might be bummed about having an uninvolved father are shocking and absurd, for reasons that can be illustrated by this simple question: would you rather be dead, or alive and healthy but with no father?
5
Weak advice. I think she was leaning towards doing the right thing and you didn't encourage that at all. Comfortable with abortion? No problem getting pregnant? Casual boyfriend not at all happy about being a father? Get an abortion and find a sperm donor who has actually consented to fathering children. Why anyone would recommend anything else is beyond me. Imagine the outrage if men were forcing women to have children that they didn't want.
6
A 38 year old woman whose boyfriend never asked her about birth control didn't use a condom. And she didn't insist on his wearing a condom. What could go wrong?
They made a baby; both are responsible. The woman has the right to choose. If she opts for having his child, he needs to pay support. Period. If she chooses abortion, that's her decision.
She's ethically responsible, in my view, because she had sex with him and didn't insist he wear a condom. Very stupid woman with an equally stupid man. They deserve each other.
My solution: Have the baby and give it up for adoption. At the least baby will have two happy parents who want a child to raise.
They made a baby; both are responsible. The woman has the right to choose. If she opts for having his child, he needs to pay support. Period. If she chooses abortion, that's her decision.
She's ethically responsible, in my view, because she had sex with him and didn't insist he wear a condom. Very stupid woman with an equally stupid man. They deserve each other.
My solution: Have the baby and give it up for adoption. At the least baby will have two happy parents who want a child to raise.
8
You're letting someone who you've been dating only "a few months" have a role in a decision whether to proceed with your pregnancy to term. Are you really 38 or 18?
Good sex is apparently to sole basis of your relationship.
Let him go his narcissistic way. It is solely your decision.
As for financial responsibility, lover boy should have thought of that when he had unprotected sex with you. You legally can't waive his obligation to pay; the Courts, as a matter of public policy, will protect the child's right to be supported no matter how poor your judgment.
Finally, why can't Galantes have the Ethicist and Social Q's columns- his judgment is unerringly spot on.
Good sex is apparently to sole basis of your relationship.
Let him go his narcissistic way. It is solely your decision.
As for financial responsibility, lover boy should have thought of that when he had unprotected sex with you. You legally can't waive his obligation to pay; the Courts, as a matter of public policy, will protect the child's right to be supported no matter how poor your judgment.
Finally, why can't Galantes have the Ethicist and Social Q's columns- his judgment is unerringly spot on.
9
I have explained to my young nephews that they have complete control of their reproductive choices until they give their partner their biological material. Regardless of what a man might believe about a woman being on the pill, potential sterility or cycle timing, when he "gives" he his sperm away reproduction choice is no longer exclusively his.
9
Regarding the 38 yr old accidentally pregnant woman:
I really question the maturity of both parties. The man sounds like a cynical, scary dude, though we only have the woman's side of the story. The woman sounds like she has severe judgement issues & both don't seem to think ahead very much. The whole story comes off as the dear diary of a 16 yr old. It makes me wonder if either one of you are mature enough to be taking care of what is growing inside of you, since neither one of you is attached to this particular mass of multiplying pregnancy material.
I really question the maturity of both parties. The man sounds like a cynical, scary dude, though we only have the woman's side of the story. The woman sounds like she has severe judgement issues & both don't seem to think ahead very much. The whole story comes off as the dear diary of a 16 yr old. It makes me wonder if either one of you are mature enough to be taking care of what is growing inside of you, since neither one of you is attached to this particular mass of multiplying pregnancy material.
5
It beats the heck out of me how you get to be 38 and still wonder if you have a right to make your own decisions about your own body. Yes, it's your decision.
Not his. Not his at all.
Not his. Not his at all.
9
As usual, the woman is responsible. Clearly, he was irresponsible- if he wants no part in having a child, he should not have sex with a woman who may get pregnant.
5
Does your boyfriend understand how babies are made? If he chooses to have sex there is always the small possibility that his partner might become pregnant. If he doesn't want children maybe he should limit his sexual activity or take responsibility for avoiding a pregnancy by getting a vastectomy .
8
This part concerns me: "I am … not attached to what has begun to grow inside me." Please make sure that it is not just your biological clock that you are attached to, and that if you choose to have the child, it's because you very much want it.
4
If she's concerned about her biological clock that may well mean that she really does want to be a mother. If she doesn't want children, this would simply not be a concern.
3
RE: the unplanned pregnancy question--to me, this is inescapably underwritten by the fact that women and men are just not equally situated when it comes to having children. Yes, the boyfriend's feelings should be considered, but the desire of a (older) woman to have children does not sit in perfect balance with a man's desire to not father. I'm no doctor, but unless the writer has a doctor's word that she is "very fertile" I would go with the statistics that 38 is pretty old to be hoping that another pregnancy will work out in the future. This factor has to weigh heavily. Crucially, the boyfriend can get some of what he wants if the woman has the child: he doesn't have to stay on the scene and father it. (It's true, the law may down the road force him to pay child support, but if the mother is economically independent, she can let him off the hook for that.) And, he has numerous other opportunities for years to have a child. Whereas, if the woman terminates the pregnancy when she wants a child, she gets none of what she wants, and may be passing up her last opportunity. As for the birth control question, everyone over the age of 10 knows where babies come from. Even when birth control is used, it fails. Both parties assume the risk. If the couple was in a long-term, committed relationship and had agreed to not have children any time soon, I'd have more sympathy for the man's position here.
3
If you are an adult knowingly having unprotected sex, the pregnancy is not accidental. It is a reasonable predictable outcome. Whether or not your partner allowed you to participate in a game of mutual plausible deniability is irrelevant.
So if the fundamental premise of this situation is not accidental, but an unsurprising result, does that change the ethical framing of the situation? I would think so: You have taken something that should have been offered and are contemplating creating a lifetime obligation - possibly financial, but certainly emotional and psychological to a child, as well as a permanent tie to you - against someone's will. I am treating this as asymmetric, but the rights and responsibilities here are, fairly or unfairly, tilted toward women.
This distancing of the pregnancy as accidental is as equally disturbing as the presentation of the pregnancy as a found penny, "Is it mine it keep?" Ethical considerations are noted above, but the lack of personal accountability in light of the magnitude of the obligation you are considering creating here for you and another (unwilling) person here is cavalier. Please consider whether you have the maturity for an exhausting - though gratifying - lifetime undertaking, particularly as a single parent.
So if the fundamental premise of this situation is not accidental, but an unsurprising result, does that change the ethical framing of the situation? I would think so: You have taken something that should have been offered and are contemplating creating a lifetime obligation - possibly financial, but certainly emotional and psychological to a child, as well as a permanent tie to you - against someone's will. I am treating this as asymmetric, but the rights and responsibilities here are, fairly or unfairly, tilted toward women.
This distancing of the pregnancy as accidental is as equally disturbing as the presentation of the pregnancy as a found penny, "Is it mine it keep?" Ethical considerations are noted above, but the lack of personal accountability in light of the magnitude of the obligation you are considering creating here for you and another (unwilling) person here is cavalier. Please consider whether you have the maturity for an exhausting - though gratifying - lifetime undertaking, particularly as a single parent.
5
Finally, someone who is considering the ethics of the situation rather than just what is "best" for the woman.
I like your description of treating the pregnancy as a "found penny." Perfect.
I like your description of treating the pregnancy as a "found penny." Perfect.
2
I totally disagree with your answer to "38 and pregnant." It is 100% her decision to make. If she ever wants a biological child, she should strongly consider not terminating. I am staunchly pro-choice and have marched on Washington etc. for a woman's right to choose. But, its a hard fact that that sometimes biology is not kind at all ages, particulary at 38. I know so many women who could never get pregnant a second time, women on their 20's and 30's. Getting pregnant once is no guarantee that she is fertile and can get pregnant again. The boyfriend should have no say in the matter. It does not matter that she does not want child support - he is obligated to pay it. (And think she should keep her options open about child support, because who knows what the future will brong?) He choose to have sex without a condom, and if the writer wants to raise the child, well, that is just the consequence of his decisions.
I'm not saying that she should not listen to his concerns. But it is her decision, and she should know that another pregnancy is a possibility but far, far, far from a given.
I'm not saying that she should not listen to his concerns. But it is her decision, and she should know that another pregnancy is a possibility but far, far, far from a given.
5
"I told him he can, guilt-free, have no involvement, but that’s not the issue for him"
That sentence is missing a period in the article.
That sentence is missing a period in the article.
Now fixed, thanks.
For the roommate, without having all the details of your settlement, it's actually unlikely that there will be no record of the details of your court case if you don't file judgment. In New York City, landlords have access to what's colloquially known as "The Black List," which is a list of tenants who have been sued by their landlords. Many landlords pay for this list so they can see if a prospective tenant is on it. As far as I understand, the name gets on the list once the landlord files suit. Also, I can't speak for jurisdictions other than New York, but most states do not expunge court records after settlements, so it's likely that there is a record of your case against her even without a Black List, and a prospective landlord would be able to go to the courthouse and obtain copies of the publicly-filed documents, as with any other court case.
1
Survivor: We all have bias. The key is to examine your own bias when it comes up. You might be assisted by a sensitive person you can talk to. Good luck.
2
My thoughts and what I have done, don't listen to the boyfriend, keep the baby, you do not need to put his name on the birth certificate at all, (the father needs to sign it anyhow), raise the child without him and be happy. I've told my child I have no idea who or where her father is, don't want to know and she's happy. (I also moved away and not anywhere near ex-boyfriend and I'm not found easily on social media.)
1
Rather then focus on herself, this expectant lady might consider the child! Bringing a fatherless child into the world and maintaining that status seems selfish. Can she consider adoption? Why is this hardly ever mentioned? Furthermore, an unmarried women who is pregnant and unmarried faces a high likelihood of asking other people -- who perhaps have managed their lives more carefully -- to help support her and the child. Adoption can be a solution, perhaps painful for the birth mother -- as it always has been -- but good for the child.
1
Regarding the rape and research survivor, if at all possible, she should also share her concerns with the faculty person supervising her research, to build in checks and balances in her research design and interpretation of results, to account for any bias. If that wouldn't work, using the counseling center at her college might be helpful, as they are trained in rape counseling, and likely had research training for their degree, and can understand the issues involved.
4
There's a third option for handling the non-paying roommate- contact her directly and arrange for payment, giving her a clear warning that she will be reported if she doesn't pay but communicating empathy and the desire for a better outcome.
4
Children are a huge issue. There is no "Solomon's Choice" - either you both agree to have the baby or you both agree not to - unless you both want a VERY REAL legal relationship for the rest of your lives.
That is the thing to have in mind, if the baby is born, both parents will share in a very real legal responsibility. That means the boyfriend (likely ex. bf) can come in at any time to assert his legal rights even to the point of fighting for primary custody. And, she can fight for a level of custody in return.
In other words forget the morals and forget the emotions if you are not ready to deal with the VERY REAL legal implications. If you want a child, but want one without this boyfriends entanglements find a certified donor. Anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.
That is the thing to have in mind, if the baby is born, both parents will share in a very real legal responsibility. That means the boyfriend (likely ex. bf) can come in at any time to assert his legal rights even to the point of fighting for primary custody. And, she can fight for a level of custody in return.
In other words forget the morals and forget the emotions if you are not ready to deal with the VERY REAL legal implications. If you want a child, but want one without this boyfriends entanglements find a certified donor. Anything worth doing is worth doing correctly.
2
The roommate in arrears defaulted first to her landlord, then to her roommate in what was probably a time-consuming, stress-inducing long-term settlement, as well as to the taxpayer-supported court that ordered the settlement. She thus placed a landlord, a friend, and taxpayers at financial hazard, and clearly poses a financial risk to other parties in the future. Choosing to indirectly enable additional defaults poses a moral hazard (hey, I skated last time) for her. Besides being ethical toward both herself and future contractual partners, it is legal to to file the judgment. The pertinent law is designed for the societal purposes of enforcing fulfillment of contracts and sharing protection against known risks. Fulfilling 90% of a legal commitment is not fulfilling the commitment. Rounding down is not what the parties and the court agreed to. The writer asserts commendable compassion for the roommate's difficult situation; other landlords and prospective creditors may, however, merit compassion as well, as does the writer for burdening herself with her ex-roommate's debt and worrying about her personal wellbeing. Parting with these financial and emotional obligations is a balanced resolution that allows both parties to consolidate their choices (perhaps she can receive Section 8 rent support) and, to the best of their abilities, move on.
3
Regarding unintended yet compelling pregnancy: Read, "Operating Instructions" by Anne Lamott, whose memoir of her first year of motherhood opens with the description of her very similar, challenging decision.
If you want this baby, have this baby. Believe in yourself and don't worry about what you will tell your child ten years hence about this time between you and the father. A lot can change in ten weeks, forget ten years.
If you want this baby, have this baby. Believe in yourself and don't worry about what you will tell your child ten years hence about this time between you and the father. A lot can change in ten weeks, forget ten years.
4
Abortion is not with out potential health risks (including a small possibility of interfering with future conception). They are infrequent, but should also be part of your very difficult decision. Surprised we are thinking of everyone's health here (even a potential baby with a need for bone marrow!) but no mention of the mother's health risks.
1
To the 38 year old with an inconvenient pregnancy:
1. You, as well as the biological father, will have lifelong affects (positive, negative or mixed) whatever your choice. It is very evident you care for the wills, wants, wishes, and desires of others. What about needs? Your needs, the baby's needs? As the saying goes 'it takes a village.'
2. Adoption is another choice if you decide to give birth and is also part of a village. That also carries a weight.
3. Should you give birth and keep the baby, do you have a strong support group(s) such as family members, church members, community organizations, friends etc.
4. Seek impartial personal counseling, couples counseling and group counseling before, during and after your decision.
5. Whatever your decision keep in the present for the saddest words ever uttered to be uttered are if only.'
You go girl in strength and courage.
1. You, as well as the biological father, will have lifelong affects (positive, negative or mixed) whatever your choice. It is very evident you care for the wills, wants, wishes, and desires of others. What about needs? Your needs, the baby's needs? As the saying goes 'it takes a village.'
2. Adoption is another choice if you decide to give birth and is also part of a village. That also carries a weight.
3. Should you give birth and keep the baby, do you have a strong support group(s) such as family members, church members, community organizations, friends etc.
4. Seek impartial personal counseling, couples counseling and group counseling before, during and after your decision.
5. Whatever your decision keep in the present for the saddest words ever uttered to be uttered are if only.'
You go girl in strength and courage.
Having never been married, I chose to plan a baby on my own in my late thirties. Best decision of my life and worth it to me. But it is hard, very, very hard. And dating the first few years is impossible due to having two full time jobs, the first work and the second taking care of your child. The sleep deprivation is beyond words. My advice to anyone considering this is you must want it 100% (I was) and be willing to give up being in a relationship for a few years.
6
Give deep thought to the quality of life you would be able to provide your child. Raised Catholic, years ago I opposed abortion. but after a lifetime of a job often involving broken homes, poverty and neglect, in many cases an abortion would have been -albeit in hindsight- a better choice given the anxious, deprived and miserable life produced. But also look deep inside yourself: You may be the type of person who, in raising a child, discovers commitment, unconditional love and joy. Unfortunately the former consideration impacts on the latter; i.e., different degrees of resources impact persons differently. Some can thrive with minimal help. Others struggle despite plenty. Whatever you decide, I pray you make the best choice.
If adopting parents can obtain full legal rights over a child, there is no reason why a mother cannot adopt the legal rights of the father, and therefore be the sole legal custodian of her child.
2
Think about these ideas and then do what you want.
1
This never should have happened in the first place, but if you are financially and emotionally ready to have a child and really want a child in your life, then by all means have the child. Take full responsibility and perhaps arrange some kind of legal understanding with the father that will comfortably alleviate his responsibility for the child - then say goodbye to him. This will be your decision and your child. You will be giving life to this child and any questions he or she should have about the father should be second when taken in consideration of your decision.
3
"If it matters, he thought I was on birth control (but never asked, and I had requested that he use a condom once before), so he didn’t think he was having unprotected sex."
This certainly looks like a deliberate attempt to get pregnant (even subconsciously) after "just a few months of dating" given how loudly the clock is ticking for the OP. That is certainly unethical.
But here is so much wrong with the entire scenario. The child should be the first priority, not an afterthought. The OP needs to do a lot more thinking about the financial resources, time and emotional commitment needed to raise a child to the age of 18 (and older). Her post does not give me any confidence that she has thought this through in any responsible and mature way.
Other things to think about: does the child deserve a relationship with his/her father? What would the child think in later years upon learning about how he/she was conceived? Maybe s/he will want to look for her father. What if the OP needs the financial support of the father to raise the child?
If it is still early enough, I think the OP should have the abortion and then think very hard about her reaction to this incident.
(BTW, regarding ticking clock, I had my youngest child at the age of 42.)
This certainly looks like a deliberate attempt to get pregnant (even subconsciously) after "just a few months of dating" given how loudly the clock is ticking for the OP. That is certainly unethical.
But here is so much wrong with the entire scenario. The child should be the first priority, not an afterthought. The OP needs to do a lot more thinking about the financial resources, time and emotional commitment needed to raise a child to the age of 18 (and older). Her post does not give me any confidence that she has thought this through in any responsible and mature way.
Other things to think about: does the child deserve a relationship with his/her father? What would the child think in later years upon learning about how he/she was conceived? Maybe s/he will want to look for her father. What if the OP needs the financial support of the father to raise the child?
If it is still early enough, I think the OP should have the abortion and then think very hard about her reaction to this incident.
(BTW, regarding ticking clock, I had my youngest child at the age of 42.)
3
This is going to sound harsh, but I don't think the 38 year old woman got pregnant "accidentally" -- I think the passion of the moment combined with her longing for motherhood is more of a negligent intentional pregnancy than an "accident". I also think wanting to be a mother is a fairly selfish reason for entering either a rocky relationship or embarking on single parenting.
It is unpopular, I know, but I think it's more irresponsible for a 38 year old woman who knows she isn't on birth control to willfully engage in unprotected sex. She will, after all, bear the physical burden of pregnancy, so she has the self-interest reason for protecting herself from unwanted pregnancy.
She has the right, of course, if she chooses to keep the baby, but she should do it eyes wide open with the idea that it will likely be as a single mother and that it will burden the child to be in a more stressful family situation and to lack a father figure. Is that fair to the child just because you want to be a mother? It strikes me as narcissistic and selfish.
It is unpopular, I know, but I think it's more irresponsible for a 38 year old woman who knows she isn't on birth control to willfully engage in unprotected sex. She will, after all, bear the physical burden of pregnancy, so she has the self-interest reason for protecting herself from unwanted pregnancy.
She has the right, of course, if she chooses to keep the baby, but she should do it eyes wide open with the idea that it will likely be as a single mother and that it will burden the child to be in a more stressful family situation and to lack a father figure. Is that fair to the child just because you want to be a mother? It strikes me as narcissistic and selfish.
25
And so, your solution is an abortion she doesn't want? You can be as judgmental as you want about how she got into this situation, but she is there, and needs to decide what to do.
I had my first two children "irresponsibly" in my late teens. Because I loved them with all my heart, I grew up fast and worked like a crazy person to support them. They are now loving, productive young men with great jobs and families of their own. I'm sure that it is partly because they didn't have a father that they are such loving, devoted fathers now. I'm so happy I had them and kept them.
We don't know what the writer's financial situation is. She may have plenty of money to support herself and the child. I didn't, and my kids were fine, anyway. As for a "father figure", the "figure" is in there in case of the absence of the actual father. There are brothers, uncles, friends, teachers who often fill that gap. No one knows, either, what the actual father of the child will do when the baby is real and not theoretical. No one knows if this woman will marry someone else, and provide the child with a loving stepfather.
Almost everyone comes into this life with some advantages and disadvantages beyond their control. Some people use those disadvantages to boost them into better circumstances than could otherwise be expected. This woman has no idea, any more than any other pregnant woman does, what will happen if she has and keeps the baby. Neither does anyone who feels free to comment.
I had my first two children "irresponsibly" in my late teens. Because I loved them with all my heart, I grew up fast and worked like a crazy person to support them. They are now loving, productive young men with great jobs and families of their own. I'm sure that it is partly because they didn't have a father that they are such loving, devoted fathers now. I'm so happy I had them and kept them.
We don't know what the writer's financial situation is. She may have plenty of money to support herself and the child. I didn't, and my kids were fine, anyway. As for a "father figure", the "figure" is in there in case of the absence of the actual father. There are brothers, uncles, friends, teachers who often fill that gap. No one knows, either, what the actual father of the child will do when the baby is real and not theoretical. No one knows if this woman will marry someone else, and provide the child with a loving stepfather.
Almost everyone comes into this life with some advantages and disadvantages beyond their control. Some people use those disadvantages to boost them into better circumstances than could otherwise be expected. This woman has no idea, any more than any other pregnant woman does, what will happen if she has and keeps the baby. Neither does anyone who feels free to comment.
8
Hate to say it, but I agree.
2
Your final sentence seems to describe your comment. I don't think you can read this question then throw the woman out to the sharks I am in awe that you have so many "recommendations" to your post. Was she foolish? Possibly Was she intentionally tricking some "poor" guy? Unlikely. But two foolish people chose to engage in intercourse here. It was a decision with consequences for both parties. This is a pretty one-sided comment in a two-party program.
4
When I was pregnant by surprise, my then-husband didn't want the baby, but I did. Despite our vow that we never wanted children. Turns out he was afraid of being a father. I had the baby. Best decision I EVER made! Forty years later I am a grandmother, and it is wonderful! Don't let his fear rule your joy. Even he doesn't rue the decision.
9
Good for you. Unfortunately, all people are not carbon copies. Anecdotes are wonderful. This is a column about ethics. Or rather, it once was.
6
I am baffled by men who never want to have children who do not have a vasectomy. It is covered by insurance and much less of a hassle than impregnating a woman (per the comments of my male friends who have had them).
It is the responsibility of the man as much as the woman to make sure that birth control is being used. If the woman is 38, presumably the man is of an age that he knows how pregnancy happens and how to prevent it. The fact that he was simply expecting the woman to take full responsibility was wrong. It was irresponsible for her as well, but she is no more or less at fault than him.
The writer has the right to have the child. She also has the right to request the man give up all parental rights to the child and all financial responsibility. She can also request child support. For people who think that it is wrong for a woman to have to ask permission from the male partner to get an abortion, it is equally wrong to have to ask the male partner to be allowed bring the pregnancy to term. The writer should take into consideration the man's thoughts on his desire to be involved with a child that is biologically his, but the final decision is hers on bringing the pregnancy to term.
It is the responsibility of the man as much as the woman to make sure that birth control is being used. If the woman is 38, presumably the man is of an age that he knows how pregnancy happens and how to prevent it. The fact that he was simply expecting the woman to take full responsibility was wrong. It was irresponsible for her as well, but she is no more or less at fault than him.
The writer has the right to have the child. She also has the right to request the man give up all parental rights to the child and all financial responsibility. She can also request child support. For people who think that it is wrong for a woman to have to ask permission from the male partner to get an abortion, it is equally wrong to have to ask the male partner to be allowed bring the pregnancy to term. The writer should take into consideration the man's thoughts on his desire to be involved with a child that is biologically his, but the final decision is hers on bringing the pregnancy to term.
17
She does not have the right to request that the father give up his financial obligations. That right belongs to the child, and it clearly is not in the best interests of the child.
4
I agree that it's is wrong to expect a woman to have to ask permission from her male partner to have an abortion. Under any other circumstances than the ones outlined here, I agree that a woman should not have to ask a man for permission to carry a pregnancy to term.
But the thing is, she lied. Perhaps not outright, but she absolutely lied by omission. She did nothing to disavow her sexual partner of his belief that she was using birth control. That lie is the heart of the matter, as I see it.
This is one of those situations where the is no ethical course of action. No matter what decision is made, someone will be terribly wronged, and it all started with her decision to withhold the truth - in short, to lie.
But the thing is, she lied. Perhaps not outright, but she absolutely lied by omission. She did nothing to disavow her sexual partner of his belief that she was using birth control. That lie is the heart of the matter, as I see it.
This is one of those situations where the is no ethical course of action. No matter what decision is made, someone will be terribly wronged, and it all started with her decision to withhold the truth - in short, to lie.
5
Perhaps choosing an open adoption would be a good compromise? I know a couple who did this 20+ years ago. The adoptive parents and child have maintained contact with the birthmother, who has basically become another member of their immediate family. (The birthfather has no involvement). It may not work for everyone, but it has worked for them.
1
I earlier commented my thoughts about the decision of whether to terminate the pregnancy. But I've come back to this article to comment again, because what the woman revealed about herself is rather disturbing. She should work on figuring out how to be more honest in her relationships and responsible in her behavior before taking on the incredibly demanding tasks of parenting a child and navigating co-parenting with that child's father.
12
Prof. Apiah may have overlooked the central issue in this case. The central question in this case is not whether the prospective father's or mother's wishes are in accordance with their life goals. The central question is, What is the moral status of the developing fetus? Since no moral argument that I am aware of has established healthy a developing human fetus has no moral claims, Prof. Apiah's venture into the side issues does not do justice to the questions raised by the expectant mother in this case.
4
To the pregnant 38 year old. You have quite a lot of company out there. I know of two relatively similar situations which have turned out quite differently. But in neither instance did the dating couple continue a (meaningful) relationship and in neither instance do both parents actively have relationships with the child who was born. One single parent household has a devoted father whose own social life seems to be on hold. In the other household the extended family's life situation has dramatically altered in order to support mother and child. Both active parents are highly functional adults who adore their children. Good luck with your decision.
1
I also have had the experience of an unplanned pregnancy, though in slightly different circumstances. I also am strongly pro-choice. Like the pregnant letter-writer, I had a partner who absolutely did not want to have that child. I was more conflicted about it, but fundamentally did want the child.
One of the most helpful things for us, perhaps counterintuitively, was going to abortion counseling (at a legit abortion provider, not a crisis pregnancy center). We went with the understanding that I had not resolved to end the pregnancy but he wanted to, and were able to talk with someone who had a wealth of experience and skill helping couples discuss this issue. After a difficult but productive 7-week decision-making process, we ended up deciding to have the baby (who is precious & wonderful & beloved and also a significant, life-changing burden in the manner of all children). The abortion counseling was very helpful for moving along the decision-making and having it feel as mutual as possible for a binary decision where one person has all the legal power.
One of the most helpful things for us, perhaps counterintuitively, was going to abortion counseling (at a legit abortion provider, not a crisis pregnancy center). We went with the understanding that I had not resolved to end the pregnancy but he wanted to, and were able to talk with someone who had a wealth of experience and skill helping couples discuss this issue. After a difficult but productive 7-week decision-making process, we ended up deciding to have the baby (who is precious & wonderful & beloved and also a significant, life-changing burden in the manner of all children). The abortion counseling was very helpful for moving along the decision-making and having it feel as mutual as possible for a binary decision where one person has all the legal power.
10
You are one of the 1% of people who went to a "legit" abortion provider who was not persuaded to get an abortion.
To the first one,
I'd say the point about doing what is best for the child (or other future children) is the primary concern here. It doesn't feel right to me to bring a child into the world knowing beforehand that it will have no father and/or that the father will resent you (and possibly the child too) for your choice. The benefits of having both parents involved in the child's life, and involved in a strong relationship with each other, are numerous and well documented. For that reason alone, I'd recommend having an abortion and waiting for a better opportunity. I'd also recommend moving on from the current relationship if you really are set on having a child. Whether or not to have children is the biggest challenge you can face as a couple (I've gone through this). You have to choose; is the person worth giving up children to be with, or is it best to move on.
Logically speaking, you still have plenty of years left on your biological clock to find a man who actually wants a child. If that's what you really want, go out and find him.
I'd say the point about doing what is best for the child (or other future children) is the primary concern here. It doesn't feel right to me to bring a child into the world knowing beforehand that it will have no father and/or that the father will resent you (and possibly the child too) for your choice. The benefits of having both parents involved in the child's life, and involved in a strong relationship with each other, are numerous and well documented. For that reason alone, I'd recommend having an abortion and waiting for a better opportunity. I'd also recommend moving on from the current relationship if you really are set on having a child. Whether or not to have children is the biggest challenge you can face as a couple (I've gone through this). You have to choose; is the person worth giving up children to be with, or is it best to move on.
Logically speaking, you still have plenty of years left on your biological clock to find a man who actually wants a child. If that's what you really want, go out and find him.
6
A 38 year old woman does not have plenty of years left on her biological clock to become pregnant. She might become pregnant through luck or medicine but not according to her natural clock. At her age, the pregnancy will be closely monitored due to her "advanced" age. Given the situation, this might sound like a trite comment but you are wrong.
3
Maybe the writer could reach out to her former roommate and find out why she has not made the last payment, and if she still hopes to make the payment. I would feel a much greater duty to warn future landlords about a tenant who has blown off payment for reasons that would affect her ability to be a good tenant in the future, and would be much more inclined to mercy if I knew that the roommate was still moving in the right direction, even if she isn't quite there yet.
3
I think you're thinking backward on the child/child support issue. The mother has no right to decide she doesn't want financial support from the father because the support is NOT for the mother. It is for the child and the child cannot waive its claim against the father's resources. Regardless of whether the pregnancy was intentional or not, both parties are responsible for this child's conception and likewise, both parties need to own up to their responsibilities. If this child is born, s/he has a lifelong claim on the resources (not just financial) of both parents.
22
This can be a little bit of a sticky issue. First of all, so long as the child does not need state support, whether to ask the father to financially contribute to the child is up to the mother. If she sues the father for child support, she will get it. But she doesn't have to sue.
My father was about as irresponsible a human being as possible, but I loved him. When he stopped paying child support, my mother stopped him from seeing me. He died while I was still a child, and I hardly knew him. And so, as a single mother, I did not make the same demands. I wanted my child to know his father, and I didn't want his father to consider him a terrible burden and a mistake. When I went back to law school while working and being a single parent, I asked the father to contribute a little less than half what the state would have imposed on him. Because he also had assets, I asked that he pay any college tuition not covered by grants, when the time came. He agreed to both, and we never finalized it in a court - which would have made us enemies. A child needs more than money from his father, and sometimes the money stands in the way of the rest.
My father was about as irresponsible a human being as possible, but I loved him. When he stopped paying child support, my mother stopped him from seeing me. He died while I was still a child, and I hardly knew him. And so, as a single mother, I did not make the same demands. I wanted my child to know his father, and I didn't want his father to consider him a terrible burden and a mistake. When I went back to law school while working and being a single parent, I asked the father to contribute a little less than half what the state would have imposed on him. Because he also had assets, I asked that he pay any college tuition not covered by grants, when the time came. He agreed to both, and we never finalized it in a court - which would have made us enemies. A child needs more than money from his father, and sometimes the money stands in the way of the rest.
1
Kate, bless her, continues to write about ethics. This is consistent with the presumed focus of this column, as the Times has dubbed its author "The Ethicist".
Michele, and now literally hundreds of others, continue to write anecdotes, uninformed legal opinion (most of which are wrong), tropes, finger-wagging judgements of the LW or of women of late childbearing age in general, or toxic man-bashing in some cases even disguised as compliment (including one that states the father of her children, conceived in this same scenario, is a great father but a "deadbeat" - even though she immorally released him from financial responsibility; is she the "deadbeat"?).
"Ethics". Look it up. Wiki. A textbook. Somewhere.
Michele, and now literally hundreds of others, continue to write anecdotes, uninformed legal opinion (most of which are wrong), tropes, finger-wagging judgements of the LW or of women of late childbearing age in general, or toxic man-bashing in some cases even disguised as compliment (including one that states the father of her children, conceived in this same scenario, is a great father but a "deadbeat" - even though she immorally released him from financial responsibility; is she the "deadbeat"?).
"Ethics". Look it up. Wiki. A textbook. Somewhere.
The notion of the boyfriend seeing the baby and having a change of heart is the stuff of Lifetime Movies. She has the right to have and keep this baby-the fact that she even questions that is disturbing. I'm not a lawyer, but I would definitely consult one and learn my rights. The cavalier move of relinquishing him of financial responsibility might be something she regrets if she finds herself in financial trouble. The bottom line: adults should have adult conversations to avoid these situations.
6
The baby, if you choose to complete the pregnancy, will not be "technically" half his. The baby will be his. He will be this child's father.
It's really interesting to view this question from the man's perspective. Most woman who are pro-choice would be absolutely horrified by the idea of forcing a woman to become a mother against her will. Even if she made a mistake and didn't use contraception, the thinking goes that she should still have the choice to terminate a truly unwanted pregnancy. I don't see that there's any ethical difference between forcing parenthood on a man or a woman.
Even just giving the man the option to opt out and be off the hook financially does not free him from the fact that he will be a father. There's a world of difference between being child-free and having a child you are not involved with.
I am somewhat sensitized to this issue because I knew a couple who absolutely agreed to not have children when they married. She deceived him by going off birth control and they conceived a child. it was a violation.
It's really interesting to view this question from the man's perspective. Most woman who are pro-choice would be absolutely horrified by the idea of forcing a woman to become a mother against her will. Even if she made a mistake and didn't use contraception, the thinking goes that she should still have the choice to terminate a truly unwanted pregnancy. I don't see that there's any ethical difference between forcing parenthood on a man or a woman.
Even just giving the man the option to opt out and be off the hook financially does not free him from the fact that he will be a father. There's a world of difference between being child-free and having a child you are not involved with.
I am somewhat sensitized to this issue because I knew a couple who absolutely agreed to not have children when they married. She deceived him by going off birth control and they conceived a child. it was a violation.
10
The man has complete control over the decision whether or not to have a baby, up until the point he releases one half of baby-making material into someone else's body. After that, it is ultimately out of his control. Dont want to possibly be a father? Cap it, snip it, pull out, abstain.
6
Many of us know couples like this and it never works out. Even if the man stays in the child's life, he will always see the woman as inherently deceptive and dishonest, a person of poor character.
Nowadays 50% of pregnancies are "unplanned" - does anyone actually believe these are "accidents" when, before birth control and abortion were legal, the rate was so much lower?
Nowadays 50% of pregnancies are "unplanned" - does anyone actually believe these are "accidents" when, before birth control and abortion were legal, the rate was so much lower?
3
As a mother who has struggled with having children, and having family members go through the same, I've learned that getting pregnant once doesn't mean it'll happen again, even if your doctor says you're "healthy". So if you have the baby now, keep the baby. If that's still not going to work, though, another option would be to put the child up for adoption. Babies are the most sought-after age group in adoptions, and I know there's tons of couples and future parents out there who would love to have the little baby that this boyfriend does not want. I know some personally who would adopt a baby today if one happened to show up. Both biological parents would be absolved of any and all responsibility if the paperwork was written properly, and another family would be made exceedingly happy in the process. If she were a friend of mine and she decided against having the baby, I would urge her to look into this option because of the immense joy that she could give to another family.
4
One thing the woman MUST explore is whether she is hoping, deep down, that once she has a beautiful little baby to show him, his heart will melt and they will become a family. She also needs to be aware that it isn't just about her or her boyfriend or just the baby, it's about family. Unless they are both utter orphans, there will be grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins who will be involved. It may not matter at first but for numerous reasons, aside from love, it may be crucial. Finally, she must keep in mind that there is a chance her baby could have overwhelming health issues that would seriously strain her ability to care for it on her own.
6
This is not a psychiatric center exploring the Freudian or Jungian sources for these actions. Two people had intercourse. Neither used birth control. Both are responsible for outcomes. Get past this. As for the medical concerns, I'm fairly sure her doctors will make those things clear. She asked a question about the rights of a man to dictate the choice she makes Not psychological exploration nor medical considerations.
1
If you want the baby, and feel you are ready to parent it, have the baby. Lots of people have children in difficult or unusual circumstances. You'll both work it out and come to terms with it.
Financially, if you don't go to court to make him responsible for child support, he isn't responsible for it. I never sued either of my children's fathers -- one paid an agreed-up sum voluntarily, the other didn't. Things may change over the child's life -- the father may want in or out, and you will have to figure out what to do. We all have to figure out what to do in tough situations at one time or another. But a wanted child is always a blessing -- have it and love it.
Financially, if you don't go to court to make him responsible for child support, he isn't responsible for it. I never sued either of my children's fathers -- one paid an agreed-up sum voluntarily, the other didn't. Things may change over the child's life -- the father may want in or out, and you will have to figure out what to do. We all have to figure out what to do in tough situations at one time or another. But a wanted child is always a blessing -- have it and love it.
6
With a slight difference this was my situation. Only it was a LT relationship and we had recently broken up. He continued the relationship long distance and I was still off birth control as he had strongly suggested to alleviate migraine headaches. He had since taken the responsibility the birth control in the relationship. He came to town and yep I got pregnant. I had the baby 23 years ago. I never asked or received financial assistance of any kind. He visited when she was young but they never had an comfortable father/daughter relationship. I have no regrets. She is very close to her father's only other child-a sister who was 12 when she was born (I have had her in my life since she was 3.) It is for that sister-sister relationship that I am eternally grateful.
4
Glad you've decided otherwise, but your child had a legal and moral right to financial support from his father. You have participated in depriving your child. You have violated the law.
Chances are your child will figure this out during young adulthood. If there is anger, how convenient for you that you will be able to blame the father for lack of financial support, refer to him as a "deadbeat", rather than see your role in causeing her legitimate anger. But perhaps she'll see that your actions were all about what makes YOU happy or "eternally grateful", and she be able to work through what that means and come to terms.
Chances are your child will figure this out during young adulthood. If there is anger, how convenient for you that you will be able to blame the father for lack of financial support, refer to him as a "deadbeat", rather than see your role in causeing her legitimate anger. But perhaps she'll see that your actions were all about what makes YOU happy or "eternally grateful", and she be able to work through what that means and come to terms.
I respectfully disagree with some aspects of Kwame's advice. Both adults acted irresponsibly, and both are affected by this pregnancy. However, because the father did nothing about birth control, I'd give his opinion less weight than if he had since the mother, who also did nothing, is the one who will have to live with the emotional consequences of having an abortion, especially if she does not ever become pregnant again. The father could have many more opportunities to have a child, should he ever change his mind.
2
It is shocking to me that nowhere in his response does The Ethicist acknowledge that abortion is a medical procedure that would be performed on the woman's body and, as such, she is the sole arbiter of whether to undergo that procedure. Certainly this is a factor in the decision she makes.
Abortion (whether surgical or pharmacological) is very very safe, but it is still a medical procedure with some risks.
That is why pro-choice means it's a woman's choice. It's up to her whether to take his concerns into consideration when deciding whether to have an abortion, but she certainly has no obligation to undergo a medical procedure just because he is upset if she wants to have the baby or even if she just is unwilling to undergo the procedure.
I wish the letter writer luck whatever she decides to do.
Abortion (whether surgical or pharmacological) is very very safe, but it is still a medical procedure with some risks.
That is why pro-choice means it's a woman's choice. It's up to her whether to take his concerns into consideration when deciding whether to have an abortion, but she certainly has no obligation to undergo a medical procedure just because he is upset if she wants to have the baby or even if she just is unwilling to undergo the procedure.
I wish the letter writer luck whatever she decides to do.
7
I think he was taking the pro-choice argument for granted (that it's ultimately her decision because it's her body). It's not that he left out that argument, rather it was an assumed premise.
2
IMO, the first letter describes an ethical quandary that is the most interesting ever to appear in this column, hands down. In addition, the letter itself is marvelously comprehensive yet succinct. That stated, addressing this ethical question from a person in this situation in this column seems inappropriate to me. It is a question best addressed as a hypothetical - which I fully understand is not the format here.
I hope that the LW and her boyfriend are able to access confidential professional help they may need to facilitate a practical decision that they consider ethical.
I hope that the LW and her boyfriend are able to access confidential professional help they may need to facilitate a practical decision that they consider ethical.
1
I meant to write that this is a question that is best addressed - in a PUBLIC realm such as this - as a hypothetical.
E.g., does Prof Appiah or any commenter really think that anything written here is actually constructive for this LW, the boyfriend or the fetus/potential child?
Perhaps Prof Appiah should consider a "first, do no harm" approach to letters from people in crisis.
E.g., does Prof Appiah or any commenter really think that anything written here is actually constructive for this LW, the boyfriend or the fetus/potential child?
Perhaps Prof Appiah should consider a "first, do no harm" approach to letters from people in crisis.
I often wonder about the timeline of a letter to the Ethicist, given that many of them are in the style of "what should I do?". Do the answers come soon enough to matter?
I agree with another commenter that some good, neutral counseling is definitely called for and soon. I would point out that if the boyfriend is not named on the birth certificate than he would not be legally of financially responsible for the child. Of course, the question of his other attachments and feelings about this are relevant to the conversation that the two are having.
3
It is not true that if the father is not listed on the birth certificate that he is not financially responsible. The mother is not obligated to request or sue for child support, but if the child is in need, the child is entitled to demand support. DNA testing would confirm parental responsibility, whether or not the father is on the birth certificate.
If the mother claims she doesn't know who the child's father is at birth, it would make it more difficult to get child support from him.
If the mother claims she doesn't know who the child's father is at birth, it would make it more difficult to get child support from him.
On the accidental pregnancy question, the discussion on pro-choice vs pro-life is a difficult one and we need to address it. I found it interesting that these two people seem to have put no thought or had a discussion of the rights the baby has at some point and their responsibility as the parents to it
7
I'm 100% pro-choice and I agree with what you wrote, though maybe my reasons are different from yours. It is indeed interesting that both seem to be assuming that after the baby is born (if it is born), the only questions of importance are what rights or obligations they will have - not what rights (and some day, obligations) the child will have, or what its experiences will be. Neither seem to understand it will actually be a person, or that how its parents behave in regard to it will ever matter. The mother argues, "But I promised him he wouldn't have to pay child support, so what's the problem?" and the father replies, "But my rights."
Unable to resolve this, they consult an ethicist. The mind boggles.
Unable to resolve this, they consult an ethicist. The mind boggles.
1
While an important consideration, I think it had to be ignored for the sake of the rest of the column. There is certainly a whole ethical discussion to be had concerning it. Also, the issue is very charged and thus a distraction, even though it has the potential to render the entire rest of the analysis pointless.
Well, too bad for the boyfriend. If he was carrying the foetus, he could have a say. This is the whole premise of a woman's right to choose. It is the female who carries the foetus who could not survive without the mother's body. Also, it is mostly the woman who nurtures (through breastfeeding) and then culturally usually has the bulk of the responsibility in caring for, and raising the child in the first few years at least. He is probably most upset that he will have to pay financially. There is almost no excuse these days in first world countries for unplanned pregnancies but they happen all the time: abortion is one of the most common medical procedures. Do what you want to.
10
"Well, too bad for the boyfriend. If he was carrying the foetus, he could have a say. This is the whole premise of a woman's right to choose."
Again, I am 100% pro-choice (I am one of those people who, when I hear "No one actually thinks abortion is a good thing," replies, "Yes, I think abortion is sometimes a good thing"), but I do not think this sort of reply is helpful.
The ethicist is *assuming* a pro-choice foundation to his argument. Pro-choice does not end or eliminate all other ethical or other considerations around an unexpected or unwanted pregnancy. Nothing about the pro-choice position says it is wrong for the expectant mother to consider the feelings or desires of the expectant father. Stating "It's the mother's choice in the end" does nothing to address the ethical issues raised here.
Again, I am 100% pro-choice (I am one of those people who, when I hear "No one actually thinks abortion is a good thing," replies, "Yes, I think abortion is sometimes a good thing"), but I do not think this sort of reply is helpful.
The ethicist is *assuming* a pro-choice foundation to his argument. Pro-choice does not end or eliminate all other ethical or other considerations around an unexpected or unwanted pregnancy. Nothing about the pro-choice position says it is wrong for the expectant mother to consider the feelings or desires of the expectant father. Stating "It's the mother's choice in the end" does nothing to address the ethical issues raised here.
1
DW I think the ethicist assumed the pro-choice position because this is the woman's position. I think he chose to focus on the immediate issue rather than the morality of abortion.
1
I feel sorry for the baby/kid. The acrimony and tension between the two adults is NOTHING compared to what it will become as expenses, desires to know biological parents, shared responsibility, and all the rest, become part of the daily conversations (arguments). Honestly, both adults sound like immature drips to me. 38? As I said, I feel sorry for the baby/kid who is an unwilling, unknowing, innocent being who, if born, will enter into conflict from the get go.
27
I don't think the prospective father in the first scenario reasonably believed he was not having unprotected sex. Based on the facts that the boyfriend had never asked about birth control and the questioner had asked him to use a condom in the past, he think he knew (or should have known) she was not taking birth control medication. Rather than deal with the issue responsibly, he relied on her willingness to have an abortion if she became pregnant to spare himself the annoyance of using a prophylactic. That does not constitute taking reasonable steps to prevent the conception of a child. The second relevant point is that the right to child support belongs to the child, not the mother. A mom who fails to enforce the child's right is depriving her child of additional financial support that could have improved the child's life. So, my answer is... if you want the baby, have the baby, but don't assuage whatever sense of guilt you have toward the father for going against his wishes by depriving your child of the father's financial support.
13
What the father did or didn't know is not relevant to the rights of the child. Nor does it relate to what the expectant mother ought to do, or not do, in this situation.
Regarding the former point, children have rights PERIOD. It's not like after the child is born, the mother can explain, "Well, your father thought I was on birth control even though I wasn't, so it's not his fault," and the child will naturally say, "Oh, okay then."
Nor are these considerations about the boyfriend's possible partial complicity in the birth control failure relevant to the woman's decision NOW. She has a right to decide whether or not to have a baby ... but if she seriously considers it, it's the CHILD's future interests that she should be looking at from all angles. (That's parenthood.) She seems to be mainly mulling over how she and the dad will work things out between them, now and in the future, whether she's being "fair" to him, and what her own future prospects are if this opportunity goes south. At best she's not a promising candidate for Parent of the Year award.
Regarding the former point, children have rights PERIOD. It's not like after the child is born, the mother can explain, "Well, your father thought I was on birth control even though I wasn't, so it's not his fault," and the child will naturally say, "Oh, okay then."
Nor are these considerations about the boyfriend's possible partial complicity in the birth control failure relevant to the woman's decision NOW. She has a right to decide whether or not to have a baby ... but if she seriously considers it, it's the CHILD's future interests that she should be looking at from all angles. (That's parenthood.) She seems to be mainly mulling over how she and the dad will work things out between them, now and in the future, whether she's being "fair" to him, and what her own future prospects are if this opportunity goes south. At best she's not a promising candidate for Parent of the Year award.
2
When he had sex, he knew he was unprotected from venereal disease, which is how unprotected sex is defined.
Agree with you on the financial support. It is unethical for the mother to take action to deprive the child of the right to parental support. Emotional support from the father cannot be compelled, but financial support can
Agree with you on the financial support. It is unethical for the mother to take action to deprive the child of the right to parental support. Emotional support from the father cannot be compelled, but financial support can
2
To the pregnant woman. An unexpected, unplanned pregnancy is one of the most stressful situations a woman can find herself in. Many of us have been there. If you think there's even a remote chance of keeping the baby, you should prioritize minimizing stress (easier said than done!), taking care of yourself and making healthy choices during this crucial time in the fetus' development. Stress can cause many problems and even a shortened life span (shortened telomeres, look it up) for the fetus. The boyfriend is probably in shock and dealing with many emotions, but he will have to accept that this happened and react accordingly and you will know who he really is and whether you want him in your life. My personal opinion - having been there - is that you should keep this child because you are willing and able to raise him or her on your own, and the cold hard fact is that you may never have another opportunity to be a mother.
11
You should tell him you are having the baby no matter what and leave it that way for a couple of weeks. See what he says. He may just be trying to get out of it any way he can and if you give him no choice, he may come around to the idea. Ultimately, it is your body and your life. No one can dictate what you decide to do. Biology sometimes defies a clear and easy rationale.
7
For the first question: legally and ethically, child support is owed to the child, not to the mother. The mother comes into the picture as the guardian of the child, who disburses the support as she sees fit, presumably for the benefit of the child. The courts have held that the mother is not required to provide an accounting for child support monies. On another point, if the man really did not want to have children, it is incumbent on him to prevent conception, and several means are available: vasectomy, condoms, abstinence, careful inquiry into the woman's birth control practices. To fail to do so, and then object, is to want to have your cake and eat it too. You don't get to have it both ways, buddy. I think it would be perfectly within your rights to have the baby and also require child support from him. But you might be better off not living with him in the meantime. This sounds like a setup for domestic violence.
24
"This sounds like a setup for domestic violence."
Signe Spencer, This part of your post is more important than you may know. Outside of medical complications, a leading (THE leading?) cause of death for pregnant women is homicide.
Signe Spencer, This part of your post is more important than you may know. Outside of medical complications, a leading (THE leading?) cause of death for pregnant women is homicide.
2
Janet - what is the leading cause of death for men of "child-bearing age" (the age range in which women are considered to be of child-bearing age)? Also, in terms of frequency, rather than rank, how do the numbers compare with those of non-pregnant women? The reason I ask is that there is a[n unintentional] statistical bias at play here. Pregnant women are typically young (20s to 40s), healthy, and live particularly healthy lifestyles (during pregnancy, i.e. not drinking/smoking/drugging or engaging in risky non-chemical behaviors. Homicide may be all that's left to cause death. Even if the homicide numbers are about the same, the perps may be different (significant other vs. insignificant other). Just curious about the whole picture - statistics do that to me.
"Your choice is between mercy (letting her off the final payment and allowing her to appear reformed) and justice (insisting on your legal and moral right to get what she owes). "
I respectfully disagree. The choice is between enabling dysfunctional behavior or not enabling dysfunctional behavior.
I respectfully disagree. The choice is between enabling dysfunctional behavior or not enabling dysfunctional behavior.
8
Of course you can keep the baby - and lose the BF. The conundrum is you can't keep them both.
At 38, you are already at "advanced maternal age", this should play into your decision.
At 38, you are already at "advanced maternal age", this should play into your decision.
9
shocking ignorance on the part of this woman - does she want women relegated to 'breeder' status, controlled by men? the child is in her / she calls the shots /
he has no standing to force an abortion / he's so concerned, he should use a condom .
lose this 'BF' - quick .
he has no standing to force an abortion / he's so concerned, he should use a condom .
lose this 'BF' - quick .
2
Terminating a pregnancy is completely your choice. Creating a pregnancy is the time when he gets to make his choice. He already made his choice. He must cope with the results of his choice, and consider vasectomy if he wants to have sex but not bear the responsibility of fathering a child.
Your potential child, however, needs all the support and security she or he can get, from both parents. Don't waive away half her security because of your emotional state.
Your potential child, however, needs all the support and security she or he can get, from both parents. Don't waive away half her security because of your emotional state.
13
First, the woman asked for your advice. Not a lecture.
You could have left out the entire first paragraph of your response.
"I told him he can, guilt-free, have no involvement..."
Second, although like you, I am not a lawyer either, I am pretty sure that it is against the law to 'collude' with the father to in some way leave the father 'off the hook.' in regard to child support.
As the NYTimes appointed ethicist you should be well aware that the needs of the child always come first, particularly in regard to that child's right to financial support from BOTH parents, no matter how convenient it might be for one or the other or both to sever their connection.
In short, the expectant mother has no legal, or moral (there's that word, sorry) right for to 'make a deal' with the father in regard to child support.
As for guilt free 'non-involvement' , that is not illegal, but it IS crummy.
You could have left out the entire first paragraph of your response.
"I told him he can, guilt-free, have no involvement..."
Second, although like you, I am not a lawyer either, I am pretty sure that it is against the law to 'collude' with the father to in some way leave the father 'off the hook.' in regard to child support.
As the NYTimes appointed ethicist you should be well aware that the needs of the child always come first, particularly in regard to that child's right to financial support from BOTH parents, no matter how convenient it might be for one or the other or both to sever their connection.
In short, the expectant mother has no legal, or moral (there's that word, sorry) right for to 'make a deal' with the father in regard to child support.
As for guilt free 'non-involvement' , that is not illegal, but it IS crummy.
14
The first is a very interesting ethical question. It's been interesting to read the comments and see that the arguments used against the man's right to choose are the very same ones that people who are anti-abortion use to argue that the procedure should be outlawed.
One writer calls the man "selfish" for not wanting to continue the pregnancy. We've all heard women who don't want to have a child called selfish. Another condemns him for not having a vasectomy - a surgical procedure. We've all heard the argument that a woman who doesn't want children "should have had her tubes tied." We've heard it said that he "should have known better" or "shouldn't have had sex if he didn't want to accept the consequences." These are exactly the arguments made against a woman seeking to end a pregnancy because she doesn't want children or doesn't want them at the moment.
Obviously a woman is the one to carry the pregnancy and take all the risks involved. But at the end of the nine months the outcome is the same for both partners - they have become parents. Taking those first nine months out of the equation, since parenthood lasts a lifetime, is it ethical to apply a different standard to a man who does not want to father a child than to a woman who does not want to be a mother?
As to the vasectomy, I don't think it's reasonable to demand that a man who (at the moment) doesn't want children must have a vasectomy. It's invasive, doesn't always work and he might wish to change his mind.
One writer calls the man "selfish" for not wanting to continue the pregnancy. We've all heard women who don't want to have a child called selfish. Another condemns him for not having a vasectomy - a surgical procedure. We've all heard the argument that a woman who doesn't want children "should have had her tubes tied." We've heard it said that he "should have known better" or "shouldn't have had sex if he didn't want to accept the consequences." These are exactly the arguments made against a woman seeking to end a pregnancy because she doesn't want children or doesn't want them at the moment.
Obviously a woman is the one to carry the pregnancy and take all the risks involved. But at the end of the nine months the outcome is the same for both partners - they have become parents. Taking those first nine months out of the equation, since parenthood lasts a lifetime, is it ethical to apply a different standard to a man who does not want to father a child than to a woman who does not want to be a mother?
As to the vasectomy, I don't think it's reasonable to demand that a man who (at the moment) doesn't want children must have a vasectomy. It's invasive, doesn't always work and he might wish to change his mind.
9
"Obviously a woman is the one to carry the pregnancy and take all the risks involved. But at the end of the nine months the outcome is the same for both partners - they have become parents."
Todd, Pregnancy can be life threatening and it permanently changes a woman's body (the first pregnancy more than later ones). Don't down play this!!
At the end of the nine months the outcome of an abortion is NOT the same for both of these partners. At 38 there can be no expectation of ever being able to get pregnant again. He can most likely get another fertile women pregnant and become a father.
Todd, Pregnancy can be life threatening and it permanently changes a woman's body (the first pregnancy more than later ones). Don't down play this!!
At the end of the nine months the outcome of an abortion is NOT the same for both of these partners. At 38 there can be no expectation of ever being able to get pregnant again. He can most likely get another fertile women pregnant and become a father.
4
I think you may have missed my point which has that at the end of those nine months that the women is pregnant BOTH partners become parents. I wasn't talking about nine months act an abortion clinic downplaying the risks and changes of pregnancy. I've been pregnant and had a baby.
2
Todd: she says this man does not want children, EVER, under any circumstances.
Now, this is her version and maybe he is not that absolute on the subject.
But all we know is her side of things.
If a man NEVER wants children, then he SHOULD have a vasectomy, because otherwise, there is always a risk of pregnancy -- a low risk, but a risk. Only sterilization is absolute.
This also goes for women who ABSOLUTELY NEVER want children.
Now, this is her version and maybe he is not that absolute on the subject.
But all we know is her side of things.
If a man NEVER wants children, then he SHOULD have a vasectomy, because otherwise, there is always a risk of pregnancy -- a low risk, but a risk. Only sterilization is absolute.
This also goes for women who ABSOLUTELY NEVER want children.
1
All well said, thank you.
Re the child discussion. Both parties are pretty contemptible. That said, it would seem the woman has the right to choose, but to be fair unless she agrees contractually to forgo making any claims against the father, he would be at financial risk for support over the ensuing 18-22 years.
7
Years ago, a woman could legally sign off on the right to collect child support.
You CANNOT do this anymore, not in the USA.
It has been decided by courts that the CHILD is entitled to the support checks, and NOT the mother. The mother has no right to give up the child's support checks, even if she wants nothing to do with the father.
If she does not need the money....it can accumulate in an account in the child's name, and be turned over to the child at age 18, for college or whatever.
You CANNOT do this anymore, not in the USA.
It has been decided by courts that the CHILD is entitled to the support checks, and NOT the mother. The mother has no right to give up the child's support checks, even if she wants nothing to do with the father.
If she does not need the money....it can accumulate in an account in the child's name, and be turned over to the child at age 18, for college or whatever.
2
Pro-choice means choice. It's your choice to keep the child. The father can legally sign off on all parental responsibilities and not be featured on the birth certificate. An unwanted abortion has serious mental consequences that is not accompanied by wanted abortions. Regardless of the choice you make, I'd dump the boyfriend.
10
Maybe the father can legally sign off on all responsibility in Canada, but that's not the case in the US.
2
Joanne: you CANNOT do that in the US -- fathers are legally obligated to support their children -- surrender of parental rights is only possible if the child is adopted by someone else.
I would honestly be very surprised if Canada permits "dead beat dads" to simply "sign off" on child support and dump the burdens on mothers and/or the province.
I would honestly be very surprised if Canada permits "dead beat dads" to simply "sign off" on child support and dump the burdens on mothers and/or the province.
1
Roommate - The woman who shorted you, and then agreed in a court of law to repay you on a set schedule, is in fact giving your money to her drug supplier. You were good to her at the time she lost her job as your paying her rent kept her from being homeless. This generosity cost you money, whether you incurred credit card debt or lost an opportunity to invest this money. That was kindness and mercy You would be enabling her if you dropped this now, and if her job loss was related to her addiction, you were enabling her then. She did well for a while after she faced the civil court, and in fact many courts connect people struggling with addiction with services. If she continues on this path, she will end up in criminal court. Part of getting sober is taking responsibility and making amends. Give her this chance.
7
Have the baby, if that's what you want. Dump the boyfriend either way.
16
I have a (probably mobid) fascination with these kinds of advice columns. My reaction consistently is that many people have an striking inability to deal with even minor life problems. It frightens me about our culture.
10
Assuming both are approaching middle age, for him to "not ever want children" and not doing anything about it is a bit of a joke. I didn't either, so I had a vasectomy in my early thirties, when I realized most of my partners had been outrageously fertile, forgetting pills and all that good stuff. Words are not a very effective contraceptive. And I personally would never tell a woman to "have an abortion". You can't take the heat.... The guy sounds like he is in a college dorm, but that can't be, right?
32
Thank you - a responsible man!
9
To the boyfriend who "does not ever want children," have a vasectomy.
To the woman contemplating her options, your future fertility is not the issue. The issue is whether you want this child and are willing to raise it alone.
To both of you: take some responsibility for contraception in your future relationships. You're well beyond old enough to know better.
To the woman contemplating her options, your future fertility is not the issue. The issue is whether you want this child and are willing to raise it alone.
To both of you: take some responsibility for contraception in your future relationships. You're well beyond old enough to know better.
23
"If it matters, he thought I was on birth control ,,, " Ethically and legally, it matters. I suspect that the writer "allowed" him to think this. She knew he did not want children, yet had unprotected intercourse. He has a good case that he was duped into being a sperm donor for a woman who had one eye on the biological clock. This is a mess of the writer's own doing.
15
If he chooses to have unprotected sex, pregnancy is a possible consequence. If he was really that opposed to fathering a child, he should have gotten a vasectomy or used other contraception. He chose to roll the dice.
Your body, your life, your choice. The decision is yours.
Your body, your life, your choice. The decision is yours.
17
...indeed, and the child support is for the child. She's got a obligation to provide for the child, even if that means having the uncomfortable conversation to demand financial support from an uncooperative father.
2
LW#1-- Loose the BF, whether you have a baby or not. He is an adult man who had sex with a potentially fertile partner-- his anger is a red flag. A man's appropriate response to an unexpected pregnancy is "whoa, wasn't planning on that. What do you want to do?" So he says he thinks you were on the pill-- the pill can fail. Injections and implants can fail, even sterilization can fail. Pregnancy is always a possibility with heterosexual intercourse.
His anger is unjustified, and he has no right to pressure you to terminate the pregnancy, pro-choice or not! If you want to raise this child, do so. If you want to terminate the pregnancy, do so. The choice is 100% yours, and any man worth having would respect that, and support your decision.
His anger is unjustified, and he has no right to pressure you to terminate the pregnancy, pro-choice or not! If you want to raise this child, do so. If you want to terminate the pregnancy, do so. The choice is 100% yours, and any man worth having would respect that, and support your decision.
13
You are certainly well within your rights to raise this baby alone, even though your boyfriend -- is he really a significant other? -- isn't willing to be a father and might walk. As untimely an event as it seems to be now, you might not get pregnant so readily again, especially if you are already thinking of potentially spending huge amounts to get inseminated later on. Your current boyfriend may even surprise you and decide to get involved -- especially if the baby comes out looking like the spitting image of the baby daddy who helped make him! I think, though, the big ethics question remains: why didn't you two discuss this before you had sex?
9
What a pair of sloppy minded people?!
If he is deadset against becoming a parent, then he should always use a condom and make sure his partner is using some form of birth control or better yet have a vasectomy and be fully committed to his decision.
If she wants to have children, then why is she dating someone who does not and why is she having sex without discussing the responsibilities of birth control.
Sloppiness often covers hidden agendas and machinations.
Why would she want to have a baby with someone who does not want one which would only lead to future conflict?
If she is fine with an abortion, then have one and be wiser in the future in her choice of boyfriends.
Grow up, people!
If he is deadset against becoming a parent, then he should always use a condom and make sure his partner is using some form of birth control or better yet have a vasectomy and be fully committed to his decision.
If she wants to have children, then why is she dating someone who does not and why is she having sex without discussing the responsibilities of birth control.
Sloppiness often covers hidden agendas and machinations.
Why would she want to have a baby with someone who does not want one which would only lead to future conflict?
If she is fine with an abortion, then have one and be wiser in the future in her choice of boyfriends.
Grow up, people!
20
You know who else has a ticking clock? A kid waiting around to be adopted.
Either you want to be a mother, or you want a mini-me.
Either you want to be a mother, or you want a mini-me.
11
This woman wanted a pregnancy and she got it. Morally, is she able to raise this child on her own? It is difficult being a single parent. The child will suffer for it.
Dad feels trapped and he is. Now he faces child support he does not want. This creates an adversarial tug of war for control of the child. Who gets hurt? The child.
Dad feels trapped and he is. Now he faces child support he does not want. This creates an adversarial tug of war for control of the child. Who gets hurt? The child.
9
RE: Keeping the baby.
I feel you entrapped your boyfriend through carelessness. The situation is not equal. For example, the choice to carry this pregnancy through or not is yours and yours alone. You can ask his opinion but it really doesn't matter.
You can get pregnant and he can't. So you should have used birth control or explicitly told him you are not using birth control or told him you are OK with getting pregnant. Instead your risked an outcome that you thought you might be OK with and didn't consider him. You are not a bad person but that's how I see the situation.
He's not a bad person either but now has to choose between raising a child with someone he's not in love with, dealing with the heart ache of being an absentee father, or something in between.
I feel you entrapped your boyfriend through carelessness. The situation is not equal. For example, the choice to carry this pregnancy through or not is yours and yours alone. You can ask his opinion but it really doesn't matter.
You can get pregnant and he can't. So you should have used birth control or explicitly told him you are not using birth control or told him you are OK with getting pregnant. Instead your risked an outcome that you thought you might be OK with and didn't consider him. You are not a bad person but that's how I see the situation.
He's not a bad person either but now has to choose between raising a child with someone he's not in love with, dealing with the heart ache of being an absentee father, or something in between.
10
I am pro-choice and find your advice to the mother deeply troubling. He can control (to a point) whether one is conceived, but he does not have a say with what this woman does with her body and her child. Being pro-choice does not mean that you feel comfortable aborting a wanted child. That is repugnant. Yes, I get that you are considering the father's perspective - but you are almost completely dismissing the mother's perspective. You think because her partner doesn't think that he wants to have a child that she should abort a fetus she wants because maybe someday she will conceive one that she could keep? We do not have full control over conception and birth even today. Things happen. Adults deal with it. This does not mean it is ethical for a man's lack of interest in parenthood to mean a woman should abort a kid she wants. Think this through from her perspective - the one perspective almost absent from your considerations.
13
I was troubled by that perspective as well. Even though I'm pro-choice, I don't think a woman should ever feel pressured into aborting a pregnancy, especially when she's inclined towards motherhood. Her boyfriend's perspective matters, but ultimately she must decide what serves her best interests and consider the child. At 38, a future pregnancy is not a given at all. Would she stay with the reluctant father and then have a baby later? Well, no. That means she'd have to end the pregnancy AND the relationship with him and either move onto a new one with a wanna-be-a-father or get pregnant on her own. In either scenario, this would happen way down the line and she'd be older and her circumstances cannot be predicted. Besides, she'd probably regret aborting a child she is already thinking about carrying to term and raising. Nope. It's not an easy dilemma to solve, but first and foremost, the prospective mother must decide for herself what she wants to do, to her own benefit. I think she's unlikely to stay in this relationship no matter what she decides to about the pregnancy, as they've reached an impasse. Oh, and she should talk to a lawyer at once, about obligations and responsibilities, for the here and now and in the far off future.
3
I think that the ethicist was addressing the question with a foundational assumption that the choice is the mother's to make. At least, that's how I read it. That does not mean that various ethical possibilities cannot be explored based on that foundation. The writer stated clearly that's she comfortable with abortion and asked for guidance with that as a starting point.
2
It's NOT "her" child. It is their child.
2
SO much focus on the act of conception in these comments - and hardly any on what this means to the child conceived. IF LW moves forward -she is bringing a human being into this world - a real live human being, who will love or want to love his father no matter what. She will forever be intertwined with this "boyfriend" as he can enforce custody and a whole host of things - and demand sharing in all decision making she may not be willing to share with him. And so - just as he must share financially - so can he enforce physically sharing and making decisions for this child. So - it's not just a matter of should have used a condom - it's the first act of a lifetime of self sacrificing acts moms do - consider what is best for this unborn child - and decide how you can achieve it.
11
"If it matters, he thought I was on birth control."
It's her body and her choice, not a decision that should be made by that hostile immature boyfriend who thinks she's 'forcing him to be a parent against his will.' He sounds like someone to get away from immediately.
But a 38 year old woman who's in a relationship and doesn't disclose to her partner that she isn't using birth control doesn't sound like someone responsible enough to be a mother.
From the way LW presented this, her decisions were more about hoping to have a man fall in love with her than any serious considerations about pregnancy, "I'm not attached to what has begun to grow inside me."
LW shouldn't have a baby without a commitment to herself she will love and care for her child. Unfortunately she seems more worried about what the boyfriend will think of her. Thus probably not mature enough to be a good parent.
It's her body and her choice, not a decision that should be made by that hostile immature boyfriend who thinks she's 'forcing him to be a parent against his will.' He sounds like someone to get away from immediately.
But a 38 year old woman who's in a relationship and doesn't disclose to her partner that she isn't using birth control doesn't sound like someone responsible enough to be a mother.
From the way LW presented this, her decisions were more about hoping to have a man fall in love with her than any serious considerations about pregnancy, "I'm not attached to what has begun to grow inside me."
LW shouldn't have a baby without a commitment to herself she will love and care for her child. Unfortunately she seems more worried about what the boyfriend will think of her. Thus probably not mature enough to be a good parent.
13
There's a real question in my mind whether someone who says she is "not attached to what has begun to grow inside" her should continue a pregnancy if she is pro-choice and her partner objects. She has (and should have) the ultimate right to decide but she doesn't sound like a good candidate for being a parent, especially a sole one. As to the boyfriend, "against his will" is an absurdity; he chose to have sex and a baby is a foreseeable consequence of that, together with support obligations.
It's legal and perfectly ethical to file the judgment. It's also legal and not unethical to refrain from doing it. Mercy boils down to a question of feelings and that's the decision the writer needs to make.
The student shouldn't worry about individual bias. Her views should be balanced against those of the other researchers. None of us is completely unbiased unless, perhaps, we are completely ignorant; aware experience is preferable to blind ignorance.
It's legal and perfectly ethical to file the judgment. It's also legal and not unethical to refrain from doing it. Mercy boils down to a question of feelings and that's the decision the writer needs to make.
The student shouldn't worry about individual bias. Her views should be balanced against those of the other researchers. None of us is completely unbiased unless, perhaps, we are completely ignorant; aware experience is preferable to blind ignorance.
2
'There's a real question in my mind whether someone who says she is "not attached to what has begun to grow inside" her should continue a pregnancy if she is pro-choice and her partner objects.'
I would take that kind of statement ("I'm not attached to it") with a grain of salt. She's in a crisis, and a decision making process, and in such a state people often detach themselves from their emotions. It's denial - a form of coping. It doesn't really reflect on whether she'll come to be attached to the child if she decides to have it.
However, I do urge the mother (who I hope is reading the comments) to scrupulously maintain her anonymity if she continues to discuss this online. No one wants to read our mother's words years later and learn that when she was pregnant with us she was "not attached to this thing that's growing inside me."
I would take that kind of statement ("I'm not attached to it") with a grain of salt. She's in a crisis, and a decision making process, and in such a state people often detach themselves from their emotions. It's denial - a form of coping. It doesn't really reflect on whether she'll come to be attached to the child if she decides to have it.
However, I do urge the mother (who I hope is reading the comments) to scrupulously maintain her anonymity if she continues to discuss this online. No one wants to read our mother's words years later and learn that when she was pregnant with us she was "not attached to this thing that's growing inside me."
1
Now he's getting scruples? Is that real? If he knew that he did not want a child with this partner he should have made sure that the two of them were protected against an accidental pregnancy and not left it to chance.
Now she's thinking about it? Is that real? If she says that the baby is accidental BUT they were having unprotected sex she is not being honest.
Either have an abortion or get some help and do some serious hard work, because neither of you is ready to be responsible for a baby. There is a lot more to it than responding to your biological clock.
Now she's thinking about it? Is that real? If she says that the baby is accidental BUT they were having unprotected sex she is not being honest.
Either have an abortion or get some help and do some serious hard work, because neither of you is ready to be responsible for a baby. There is a lot more to it than responding to your biological clock.
7
It would be nice if pregnancies only occurred to really mature, responsible, married couples who are completely ready for children.
But that is not how life or Mother Nature work.
This woman IS pregnant. Should she have done it this way, with this man? Probably not. But it is over -- a done deal.
The fetus is in side of her. She is 38 and this likely her last shot at motherhood. If she gives it up, she will likely never have biological children.
So asking her to abort, and then "do it again, but properly" is pointless.
Baby is HERE. Time for both parties to "man up" and act like adults. Life cannot be "pre planned" the way you think. Stuff happens. Grow up and deal with it.
But that is not how life or Mother Nature work.
This woman IS pregnant. Should she have done it this way, with this man? Probably not. But it is over -- a done deal.
The fetus is in side of her. She is 38 and this likely her last shot at motherhood. If she gives it up, she will likely never have biological children.
So asking her to abort, and then "do it again, but properly" is pointless.
Baby is HERE. Time for both parties to "man up" and act like adults. Life cannot be "pre planned" the way you think. Stuff happens. Grow up and deal with it.
LW #1, knowing you were having unprotected sex, "accidental" seems to be an erroneous descriptor. Both you and the reluctant "boy friend" would be well advised to sort out some issues. "Boy friend" has all the time in the world to ponder why he is angry at you for considering having a baby rather than at himself for ignoring his responsibility to keep his sperm away from your eggs. If you want to bring this being into the world, have the baby. Whether or not you could conceive down the road is not relevant to this discussion, I don't think. Whether or not you continue a relationship with the boyfriend deserves some careful consideration.
26
Whether or not she can conceive down the road is absolutely relevant to this discussion. Every woman will feel the clock ticking at her age and there is undoubtley some biological pressure to conceive.
Now she's going to lock down a poor fool that didn't re-affirm that she was on birth control every time they had sex. He basically will have to give up half of his expendable money for the rest of his healthy and mobile life. Essentially she's killing his opportunities and dreams for the sake of a child she isn't sure if she wants that isn't even born yet.
There's appears to be zero real sympathy for the men in these situations.
Now she's going to lock down a poor fool that didn't re-affirm that she was on birth control every time they had sex. He basically will have to give up half of his expendable money for the rest of his healthy and mobile life. Essentially she's killing his opportunities and dreams for the sake of a child she isn't sure if she wants that isn't even born yet.
There's appears to be zero real sympathy for the men in these situations.
4
How do you know that the boyfriend is not angry with himself? The ignorance of human nature in your vitriolic comment (and so many others here) is quite fortunately not apparent in the LW's letter. Neither she, nor her boyfriend - her description, and therefore not her "boyfriend" (n.b. quotation marks) added in so many comments - deserve this stream of judgment.
So many people here who have never had unprotected sex! Or made any mistake, it seems. All sorts of research shows that MOST people have had unprotected sex during fertile years. As adults. But not readers of this column. Nope. Most here behave as no other cohort of human beings in post-contraceptive history. But I'll bet quite a few are on this earth because their parents had unprotected sex without intending to reproduce.
All of this scolding, led by Appiah, is toxic.
So many people here who have never had unprotected sex! Or made any mistake, it seems. All sorts of research shows that MOST people have had unprotected sex during fertile years. As adults. But not readers of this column. Nope. Most here behave as no other cohort of human beings in post-contraceptive history. But I'll bet quite a few are on this earth because their parents had unprotected sex without intending to reproduce.
All of this scolding, led by Appiah, is toxic.
3
Ben, this "poor fool" is just that - a fool. He did not take the steps HE could have taken to prevent a pregnancy. He gambled and feels like he lost "unfairly" - malarkey!
A woman's use contraceptives does NOT always prevent pregnancies. It just decreases the odds of a pregnancy. He could have chosen to decrease the odds himself, but chose not to.
The opportunities, dreams, and finances of BOTH partners will be effected by having a baby. On that score I have no more sympathy for her than for him. My sympathies are for the baby.
A woman's use contraceptives does NOT always prevent pregnancies. It just decreases the odds of a pregnancy. He could have chosen to decrease the odds himself, but chose not to.
The opportunities, dreams, and finances of BOTH partners will be effected by having a baby. On that score I have no more sympathy for her than for him. My sympathies are for the baby.
3
I'm appalled at all the readers saying it's okay for the irresponsible woman to have the baby, as if it was only her decision to make. I say this as an extremely liberal woman myself. I'm sorry, but this woman was KNOWINGLY sleeping with a guy without using protection! The guy has the oversight of not explicitly asking, sure - he should've made it clear - but at least he assumed she was using protection. He didn't have the same intent, or the same knowledge of the situation as she did. She, on the other hand, knew perfectly that she wasn't protected, and still only asked him to use a condom ONCE? And you are defending her? Seriously?!? The guy made one uninformed assumption out of oversight. She made an intentional decision over and over, and what's worse, she hid it from him. It's not the same. It's entrapment, even if she didn't mean it that way.
So I don't think she has the moral right to keep the baby. Her ticking clock is not an excuse. If she wants kids and knows he does not, she shouldn't waste his time, and should leave him and either find somebody who does want kids, or get herself inseminated, if she thinks she's "so fertile" after one accidental pregnancy.
An unwanted child is not just an implicit burden. It's also a heart that will be born broken. I respect the guy for not wanting this doomed relationship with his child. He doesn't want to be the deadbeat dad against his will. That's a lot more moral than the woman selfishly choosing to have the baby.
So I don't think she has the moral right to keep the baby. Her ticking clock is not an excuse. If she wants kids and knows he does not, she shouldn't waste his time, and should leave him and either find somebody who does want kids, or get herself inseminated, if she thinks she's "so fertile" after one accidental pregnancy.
An unwanted child is not just an implicit burden. It's also a heart that will be born broken. I respect the guy for not wanting this doomed relationship with his child. He doesn't want to be the deadbeat dad against his will. That's a lot more moral than the woman selfishly choosing to have the baby.
47
"I'm sorry, but this woman was KNOWINGLY sleeping with a guy without using protection!"
I'm sorry, but this man was KNOWINGLY sleeping with a woman without wearing a condom!
I'm sorry, but this man was KNOWINGLY sleeping with a woman without wearing a condom!
98
Sorry, he is equally responsible. Period.
17
No, they both made a decision over & over for a period of months. She didn't tell him she wasn't using contraception, he didn't ask. He seems basically unconcerned about her, earlier & now. He thinks this is all about him. Once she got pregnant, it interfered with how his life was supposed to go. He doesn't want to have to do anything "against his will." & he might have a leg to stand on if he'd been responsible about contraception. But he couldn't be bothered. Why do you think he's "the moral one" who "doesn't want to be a deadbeat dad against his will"? Well, he has choices. He can choose to be an engaged father. He can choose to be financially responsible but not otherwise involved with the baby. He can choose to walk away & be a deadbeat dad. He has lots of choices - more than she does. Let's face it - the guy is a selfish jerk. Why is that moral? It's selfish, immature, stupid.
She should have the baby if she wants to raise it alone. She doesn't owe him anything but honesty about what she wants to do & to hear him out. He's made clear he feels angry & put-on. It's a big thing for her to raise this child alone. But it's her choice. She's told him he can walk away & not contribute a penny. She's let him off the hook. She should cut this jerk loose & focus on her life & her pregnancy.
She should have the baby if she wants to raise it alone. She doesn't owe him anything but honesty about what she wants to do & to hear him out. He's made clear he feels angry & put-on. It's a big thing for her to raise this child alone. But it's her choice. She's told him he can walk away & not contribute a penny. She's let him off the hook. She should cut this jerk loose & focus on her life & her pregnancy.
10
I understand why this man may not want this child brought into the world. It feels like a very big consequence to a what might have been a very unconsidered decision. Nevertheless, a fetus has resulted. He's allowed to have feelings about it.
But with every fiber of my being I believe this is the woman's decision. It is her body which will give birth, and it is her body which can terminate a pregnancy. And while The Ethicist suggests a calm reasoned meeting-of-the minds, I would not blame her if she chose to avoid this man entirely. Were I preparing myself to parent, I'm not sure how open I would be to the full drama of this man's anger and resentment. I would not want my child's life tainted with whatever emotional overload that left me with. Is that wrong? I would wish my partner well, let him know my decision, and also that I was no longer interested in communicating if he did not want anything to do with the resulting child. This is hard stuff, grown-up stuff -- but if she choses to have the child, she will want to be all-in.
But with every fiber of my being I believe this is the woman's decision. It is her body which will give birth, and it is her body which can terminate a pregnancy. And while The Ethicist suggests a calm reasoned meeting-of-the minds, I would not blame her if she chose to avoid this man entirely. Were I preparing myself to parent, I'm not sure how open I would be to the full drama of this man's anger and resentment. I would not want my child's life tainted with whatever emotional overload that left me with. Is that wrong? I would wish my partner well, let him know my decision, and also that I was no longer interested in communicating if he did not want anything to do with the resulting child. This is hard stuff, grown-up stuff -- but if she choses to have the child, she will want to be all-in.
219
Let's not forget that you'd be cashing out on a big chunk of his expendable funds every month. Let's not intentionally leave that out of the discussion, as if it doesn't even matter.
What about the opposite problem?
What if you wanted an abortion, but your boyfriend objected?
What if you wanted an abortion, but your boyfriend objected?
45
Too bad. It's her body. He cannot force her to do with her body something she doesn't want to do. Pregnancy, childbirth, and nursing fall on the woman to do. Way more men abdicate of their responsibilities towards their children than women. If a man wants to have a child he can buy an egg and hire a surrogate.
14
Woman's body. Her choice. Period. Don't like it? Don't have sex.
14
Then she should rethink. It should be a discussion, but ultimately, always her choice.
A man who does not ever want children has multiple options for ensuring childlessness for himself. Not only did he choose none of those things, he does the very thing that risks making him a father. I point this out only to help you evaluate in context his wish for you to abort. His words don't align with his actions. You can't just go and have another pregnancy and child very easily. A pregnancy at 38 is not a guarantee that it will be successful at 40 or later. But he can go and impregnate others, nearly indefinitely.
In your shoes, I would keep the pregnancy. Terminating this pregnancy could surrender your only chance for a biological child. You won't just be giving up a baby, it would be giving up the middle-schooler you would have 10 years from now, or the young adult 20 years from now. You could be giving up, forever, the chance to be a grandmother. If you desire to be a parent, do not squander your fertile years.
In your shoes, I would keep the pregnancy. Terminating this pregnancy could surrender your only chance for a biological child. You won't just be giving up a baby, it would be giving up the middle-schooler you would have 10 years from now, or the young adult 20 years from now. You could be giving up, forever, the chance to be a grandmother. If you desire to be a parent, do not squander your fertile years.
516
I 100% agree with Catherine! It's an unfortunate situation for him, to be sure. But a preventable one. I had my first child at 36 and second at 38. I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. Having kids is certainly not for everyone, but if you think you want a child of your own, now's the time. Good luck, and congratulations!
10
I agree entirely with Catherine.
7
I do not read in her words either a strong desire to have a child or an understanding of what that entails.
1
Regarding the non-paying room mate with the problems...
You could be the former room mate of my former room mate. (Do you follow that?) My former room mate also lost her job (or got fired) and stopped paying rent, unbeknownst to me, which landed me in a lot of financial hot water. Long story short, it wasn't until I started to try to get restitution from her that I found out that this was a pattern with her. I wish that I had known ahead of time! I would never have agreed to be room mates.
If you are worried about seeming "mean" ask yourself these questions: Knowing what you know about her now, would you trust her enough to room with her again? Do you think that her problems will create similar hardships for future room mates and/or landlords?
I say file that judgement and make sure that everything is on record. You will be doing her future room mates and landlords a huge, huge favor.
You could be the former room mate of my former room mate. (Do you follow that?) My former room mate also lost her job (or got fired) and stopped paying rent, unbeknownst to me, which landed me in a lot of financial hot water. Long story short, it wasn't until I started to try to get restitution from her that I found out that this was a pattern with her. I wish that I had known ahead of time! I would never have agreed to be room mates.
If you are worried about seeming "mean" ask yourself these questions: Knowing what you know about her now, would you trust her enough to room with her again? Do you think that her problems will create similar hardships for future room mates and/or landlords?
I say file that judgement and make sure that everything is on record. You will be doing her future room mates and landlords a huge, huge favor.
124
I think he should have taken responsibility and thought about the consequences of having unprotected sex beforehand. So you have every right to keep the child if you had not misled him.
However, I feel like you only want to keep the child just because you'd like to have a child. Given that, why not adoption? This way you can have your cake and eat it too. I understand that that doesn't make any sense from the evolutionary point of view and how we have evolved to think about this, but isn't better to adopt a child who is already alive and need help to have any shot in this life than to bring another person into this world who is obviously not wanted by her dad? What would the unborn child want?
However, I feel like you only want to keep the child just because you'd like to have a child. Given that, why not adoption? This way you can have your cake and eat it too. I understand that that doesn't make any sense from the evolutionary point of view and how we have evolved to think about this, but isn't better to adopt a child who is already alive and need help to have any shot in this life than to bring another person into this world who is obviously not wanted by her dad? What would the unborn child want?
37
And what about when the child is 18 or 20 years and wants to me, contacts birth dad...who is perhaps then in a relationship where his partner and/or children no nothing about this suddenly appear son/half brother?
1
Not everyone has the financial means to adopt or parent a child with severe beauty issues. But it's always worth considering.
Adoptees have our own issues, and many feel unwanted by their biological parents, regardless of facts (or gentle fictions). This baby already exists, and has a mother who wants to raise him.
4
Thank you for at least acknowledging that there is a moral and ethical dimension to a decision to abort, in addition to the questions presented.
41
No one has ever denied that. No one is "pro-abortion." The problem and lack of empathy is with those who believe they or the government should decide what is morally right and not the individual who must live with the consequences.
6
"No one is 'pro-abortion.'"
Sigh ... I'm pro-abortion. There are situations where abortion is the right answer, and in those cases, I'm in favor. Far as I can tell that makes me "pro-abortion" and unapologetically so.
Sigh ... I'm pro-abortion. There are situations where abortion is the right answer, and in those cases, I'm in favor. Far as I can tell that makes me "pro-abortion" and unapologetically so.
2
With regard to the first LW - Don't just think of yourself and your "boyfriend" -
while you may not put any demands on your "boyfriend" financially or emotionally, the resulting child eventually may want to know who his/her father is.
while you may not put any demands on your "boyfriend" financially or emotionally, the resulting child eventually may want to know who his/her father is.
61
For the abortion question, anything short of vasectomy, according to the WHO, leaves a certain possibility of impregnation by a male. Since the male can only know for certain what his fertility status is and can only infer the status of the female, the male must take responsibility for every sexual act; put differently, every sexual act by a male involves risk (sans vasectomy) which the male accepts by having the sexual act itself. The boyfriend implicitly accepted the risk of a resulting pregnancy, he can't cry "foul" now.
As to the addicted roommate, why not contact her and offer to consider the matter paid in full for 5% of what is owed (mercy), not unlike what collection agencies do, or be taken to court if she refuses (justice)? I sympathize that it is difficult to read an attempt at a solution of a question of ethics and have the term "collections agencies" appear in the same paragraph.
As to the addicted roommate, why not contact her and offer to consider the matter paid in full for 5% of what is owed (mercy), not unlike what collection agencies do, or be taken to court if she refuses (justice)? I sympathize that it is difficult to read an attempt at a solution of a question of ethics and have the term "collections agencies" appear in the same paragraph.
78
This argument and others like it are absurd. Yes, the boyfriend should accept responsibility for his part in the conception, but that doesn't mean his opinion should have no weight. As Kwame says, even if the mother doesn't intend on asking for his help, it might come to that, so at the end of the day, the mother's decision is potentially imposing a burden on the father.
I also find it difficult to accept the idea that anyone is crying "foul". The mother is making a conscious choice to keep a child that will be a joint responsiblity. If we accept that mother and father are equally complicit in conception, and equally responsible for the back end care for the child, then it's beyond absurd that anyone advocate that the boyfriend (or father in general) be forced to accept his partner's decision, full stop. Yes, a woman has an ultimate right to choose, but if you are deciding in the face of your partner's opposition, your partner should have the ability to legally and financially distance himself from the child.
I also find it difficult to accept the idea that anyone is crying "foul". The mother is making a conscious choice to keep a child that will be a joint responsiblity. If we accept that mother and father are equally complicit in conception, and equally responsible for the back end care for the child, then it's beyond absurd that anyone advocate that the boyfriend (or father in general) be forced to accept his partner's decision, full stop. Yes, a woman has an ultimate right to choose, but if you are deciding in the face of your partner's opposition, your partner should have the ability to legally and financially distance himself from the child.
3
"Yes, a woman has an ultimate right to choose, but if you are deciding in the face of your partner's opposition, your partner should have the ability to legally and financially distance himself from the child."
We have too many deadbeat fathers in this country and you want to make it legal to be a deadbeat father?? Could the man make this decision at any stage of the pregnancy? If he doesn't know about the pregnancy (she doesn't know how to contact him), could he make this decision after the baby is born?
Deadbeat fathers often result in women having to use the social safety net and that means that ALL of us have to pay. Also, aborting a wanted child has mental health consequences for the woman. So your solution for males means the woman loses whether or not she aborts.
"it's beyond absurd that anyone advocate that the boyfriend (or father in general) be forced to accept his partner's decision, full stop."
Malarkey - full stop! If a man wants to have sex with no lifelong consequences, he should have a vasectomy.
We have too many deadbeat fathers in this country and you want to make it legal to be a deadbeat father?? Could the man make this decision at any stage of the pregnancy? If he doesn't know about the pregnancy (she doesn't know how to contact him), could he make this decision after the baby is born?
Deadbeat fathers often result in women having to use the social safety net and that means that ALL of us have to pay. Also, aborting a wanted child has mental health consequences for the woman. So your solution for males means the woman loses whether or not she aborts.
"it's beyond absurd that anyone advocate that the boyfriend (or father in general) be forced to accept his partner's decision, full stop."
Malarkey - full stop! If a man wants to have sex with no lifelong consequences, he should have a vasectomy.
12
Andrew: legally and morally, that is not true -- even if you don't want a child, if you father a child -- you are obligated to support that child.
If not...it would be awfully easy for almost ANY man to say AFTER THE FACT that "oh, I didn't want children so I don't have to pay child support!"
Men and women are different. Woman take on the full risk of pregnancy, childbirth and for most, the hands-on raising of their children -- for men, it is a kind of "biological sneeze" -- a single evening of having fun sex and then they expect to have no further responsibility!
Well, sir -- all that ended with DNA testing in the last 20 years. You can no longer plausibly claim "that's not MY baby!" Now we know for SURE who fathered every child, and every state tests for this.
I assure you that no court and no jury will EVER say "well, you didn't really want to be a father, so you don't have to pay child support". And they absolutely will not say "the woman has to abort, because YOU now decide you don't want a child".
This is reality. Remember this, every time you have "fun condom-free sex" and think there will never be an consequences to your actions.
If not...it would be awfully easy for almost ANY man to say AFTER THE FACT that "oh, I didn't want children so I don't have to pay child support!"
Men and women are different. Woman take on the full risk of pregnancy, childbirth and for most, the hands-on raising of their children -- for men, it is a kind of "biological sneeze" -- a single evening of having fun sex and then they expect to have no further responsibility!
Well, sir -- all that ended with DNA testing in the last 20 years. You can no longer plausibly claim "that's not MY baby!" Now we know for SURE who fathered every child, and every state tests for this.
I assure you that no court and no jury will EVER say "well, you didn't really want to be a father, so you don't have to pay child support". And they absolutely will not say "the woman has to abort, because YOU now decide you don't want a child".
This is reality. Remember this, every time you have "fun condom-free sex" and think there will never be an consequences to your actions.
6
To the pregnant 38-year-old,
You are spending a lot of time worrying about the desires of a guy who didn't bother to confirm you were using birth control, much less take the trouble of telling you his strong feelings about children, despite the fact that he was willing to have sex with you. Pregnancy is ALWAYS possible in a heterosexual relationship, even with birth control, and if he didn't tell you his feelings and make them a condition of your relationship, he lost his right to demand termination. I wish you would spend less time worrying about his needs and desires and rights, and spend more time worrying about your own, not to mention those of the being inside you (I say that as a staunchly pro-choice feminist), who could grow up to be a tremendous source of love and joy. You clearly have a desire for a child, and the universe has given you the opportunity to have one--if you want it. It is YOUR body. It is YOUR future. It is YOUR choice.
You are spending a lot of time worrying about the desires of a guy who didn't bother to confirm you were using birth control, much less take the trouble of telling you his strong feelings about children, despite the fact that he was willing to have sex with you. Pregnancy is ALWAYS possible in a heterosexual relationship, even with birth control, and if he didn't tell you his feelings and make them a condition of your relationship, he lost his right to demand termination. I wish you would spend less time worrying about his needs and desires and rights, and spend more time worrying about your own, not to mention those of the being inside you (I say that as a staunchly pro-choice feminist), who could grow up to be a tremendous source of love and joy. You clearly have a desire for a child, and the universe has given you the opportunity to have one--if you want it. It is YOUR body. It is YOUR future. It is YOUR choice.
587
You should be writing this column!
16
But is that the man you want your child to have to go to, when he or she some day wants to meet their biological father?
3
Well said. He blew it, he blew it.
6
LW #1 --The first thing is that you need to get really honest with yourself. You knew that you two were not using contraception; your boyfriend honestly may not have if you didn't tell him straight up that you weren't. You tell, even if you are not asked! So this is not an accidental pregnancy. It may not be planned, but it was not accidental. You're 38, you know better.
That said, I don't think boyfriend has veto power over your decision, whether you decide to keep the baby or to terminate the pregnancy. I agree that he also bears responsibility for what has happened. Just be aware that all choices have consequences. You may have to explain to your child down the road that dad made a choice to not be a dad. You won't be the first mom who's had to deliver that message. Good luck to you. Just make sure you have some family and/or friends who support you and love you. Being a single mom is harder than you might think.
That said, I don't think boyfriend has veto power over your decision, whether you decide to keep the baby or to terminate the pregnancy. I agree that he also bears responsibility for what has happened. Just be aware that all choices have consequences. You may have to explain to your child down the road that dad made a choice to not be a dad. You won't be the first mom who's had to deliver that message. Good luck to you. Just make sure you have some family and/or friends who support you and love you. Being a single mom is harder than you might think.
207
cantaloupe, I agree with your advice. But to me (an adamantly pro-choice woman) the bottom line is that this is a 38-year old woman who WANTS a child. And now she's pregnant. She should look up, say "Thank You!" and get planning for her baby.
7
He didn't ask or confirm that you were using hormonal birth control, didn't use birth control himself (condoms), and now wants to weigh in? Nah, he had his chance. I'm also wondering about ten years into the future; what will you tell the child when they start asking about their father? Either the truth (he's uninvolved because he didn't want a child) or a lie. None of them sound like good options (to me, anyway, an irrelevant bystander). I wish you luck and peace!
88
Personally, the choice between telling a child or young adult that someone they never met "didn't want a family" ...and that child/adult never being born- I would choose to give life. By the time that history is shared, the child will have known only love and the affirmation of having been wanted by mother and all those they know.
1
I would recommend against lying to the child. It's better for the child to know the father is just not interested but that other people in the child's world care deeply about the child.
4
One thing many here are forgetting: this man is now angry and upset. He might change his mind down the road.
Even if HE DOES NOT -- he probably has parents and siblings, who may very much want a grandchild or a niece/nephew.
He may marry and have children at a later date, and THIS CHILD will be a half-sibling to those children.
Children are not just objects (as the woman unfortunately suggests, "a thing"). They are human beings, with feelings -- who have kinship relations to everyone in their bloodline -- so it is NOT JUST YOU and your partner -- it is your parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces -- ALL TOGETHER.
That's why acting like a spoiled child here, grumpy because "somebody FORCED you to be a father" -- as if this woman STOLE his sperm -- is ridiculous, immature and stupid.
This is nature's way of making you GROW UP.... man up....take your responsibilities for your own actions and act like an adult.
Even if HE DOES NOT -- he probably has parents and siblings, who may very much want a grandchild or a niece/nephew.
He may marry and have children at a later date, and THIS CHILD will be a half-sibling to those children.
Children are not just objects (as the woman unfortunately suggests, "a thing"). They are human beings, with feelings -- who have kinship relations to everyone in their bloodline -- so it is NOT JUST YOU and your partner -- it is your parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces -- ALL TOGETHER.
That's why acting like a spoiled child here, grumpy because "somebody FORCED you to be a father" -- as if this woman STOLE his sperm -- is ridiculous, immature and stupid.
This is nature's way of making you GROW UP.... man up....take your responsibilities for your own actions and act like an adult.
2
If two people consent to the act, then they consent to the possible foreseeable repercussions of that act. Pregnancy is a foreseeable repercussion of sex.
190
I am also not a lawyer but my understanding is that one parent (in this case the potential mother) cannot waive the child's right to receive material support from the other parent. So although she may sincerely intend to let her boyfriend completely off the hook, that's not actually her decision to make. I know it's too late to wag fingers in this case but gee dude, the time to decide you don't want to be a father is before you have unprotected sex with a woman of childbearing age.
250
You can waive the right. There are legal forms you can sign that give away your right to see the child, make decisions of it's behalf and pay material support. Another option is to list the child's father as "unknown" on the birth certificate.
1
I am a lawyer. Unless the Mom sues for child support, or she files for welfare and the government sues him for child support, will the court order him to pay.
2
Actually, I have looked into this legal matter. Only if you disclose the biological father's information can the state pursue him. It is perfectly within the woman's rights to "not know" the identity of the father if asked. Once the government knows who is the bio father, they legally have the right to pursue him for support regardless of the mother's wishes.
The fact is women and even children (unborn or born) are harmed or even killed (murdered) by angry men who didn't accept their role responsibly. After a few months dating, the woman doesn't know what this man is capable of. He's made his desires known. I'd remove him from the picture as completely as possible.
The fact is women and even children (unborn or born) are harmed or even killed (murdered) by angry men who didn't accept their role responsibly. After a few months dating, the woman doesn't know what this man is capable of. He's made his desires known. I'd remove him from the picture as completely as possible.
5
To the pregnant 38 yr old,
I was in your shoes 26 years ago. I got pregnant and my then boyfriend didn't want the baby. I also wasn't against abortion per se, but made the decision to keep the baby with or without him. I was ready for motherhood and prepared to do what I had to do to give him life. 7 months later I gave birth to sweet little boy. He's an amazing young man now of whom I am very proud. I have zero regrets. Oh, the boyfriend? Yeah, he's a deadbeat Dad who still owes me arrears and never paid 1 dollar for college. He came around though, once I made my decision. He's been an involved and good father, if you overlook the lack of child support money. Key points: it's your body, your life, your baby's life and entirely up to you!! Thankfully we don't live in the Handmaid tale's time yet!!
I was in your shoes 26 years ago. I got pregnant and my then boyfriend didn't want the baby. I also wasn't against abortion per se, but made the decision to keep the baby with or without him. I was ready for motherhood and prepared to do what I had to do to give him life. 7 months later I gave birth to sweet little boy. He's an amazing young man now of whom I am very proud. I have zero regrets. Oh, the boyfriend? Yeah, he's a deadbeat Dad who still owes me arrears and never paid 1 dollar for college. He came around though, once I made my decision. He's been an involved and good father, if you overlook the lack of child support money. Key points: it's your body, your life, your baby's life and entirely up to you!! Thankfully we don't live in the Handmaid tale's time yet!!
300
you are very generous to forgive him the child support-- thank you for sharing this and congratulations on your son
Finally it's all about money, isn't it? women just want resources.
1
The Handmaid's Tale was written after the author's visit to Saudi Arabia, no matter who many people want to see it as about the US.
3
Regarding the would-be mom: you're lucky to be pregnant. There are absolutely no guarantees that you could or will ever fall pregnant again. It's nettling that a man who doesn't want any kids hasn't had a vasectomy. It doesn't matter what he wants because reality is like the weather, it is what it is: you (and he) are already pregnant. You haven't failed in anyway to respect his wishes, rather he has failed himself; for a man to pressure a woman into an abortion is equally wrong as forcing a woman to bear a child. An abortion will never erase the fact that you were pregnant with a child you want. Don't trade what you want and now have for what he wants. Live your life and be happy.
286
Getting pregnant once doesn't prove you're 'quite fertile.' It just means you got pregnant once.
432
It still doesn't mean she can rob the man the chance to have a child-free life.
He has the right to remain childfree as much as she has to be a parent.
She should find somebody who wants to be a parent.
She doesn't have to make ppl live with the consequences of a mistake/ un wanted action for the rest of their lives.
It is too cruel, esply. for that unwanted child
He has the right to remain childfree as much as she has to be a parent.
She should find somebody who wants to be a parent.
She doesn't have to make ppl live with the consequences of a mistake/ un wanted action for the rest of their lives.
It is too cruel, esply. for that unwanted child
1
The man had his chance to life a child-free life. He had the opportunity to maintain his child-free life. Sure, he is not the only one at fault, but he had the power to avoid the current situation. I'm not sure what the technical term for that is, but I think of it as failure of a system in series or in parallel. In series, a single link can cause failure of the whole system. In parallel, all links must fail for the system to fail; and each individual link has the power to prevent failure of the system.
In the conundrum described here the system was in parallel and all the links failed. Therefore, each link is totally to blame ("total" in the sense that it could have totally prevented the situation by itself). Both the guy and the girl in the situation are both independently totally to blame in this sense.
In the conundrum described here the system was in parallel and all the links failed. Therefore, each link is totally to blame ("total" in the sense that it could have totally prevented the situation by itself). Both the guy and the girl in the situation are both independently totally to blame in this sense.
9
N: that man robbed HIMSELF of a child-free life.
He could have used a condom every time he had sex with any woman, as there is no sure way of knowing a woman is on birth control (and birth control CAN fail).
He could have had a vasectomy, which is THE only sure fire way to have that absolutely child-free life he (and you) want so dearly.
No, you do not have a right to be child-free -- because your rights END when they affect other people. He CHOOSE to have sex with this woman -- CHOOSE to use no birth control -- so he CHOOSE the risk of impregnating her.
At 38, she does not have the luxury of time to "find another partner and get pregnant".
However, even if she was 21 years old....it would be the same answer. He got her pregnant. HE DID THAT. He gave up his choices. She did not tie him down, rape him and "steal his sperm". He had sex willingly. That is a choice.
NOTE: it sounds like YOU are a man who never wants children. If so, have a vasectomy or quit complaining. You do NOT have a right to condom-free sex without consequences.
He could have used a condom every time he had sex with any woman, as there is no sure way of knowing a woman is on birth control (and birth control CAN fail).
He could have had a vasectomy, which is THE only sure fire way to have that absolutely child-free life he (and you) want so dearly.
No, you do not have a right to be child-free -- because your rights END when they affect other people. He CHOOSE to have sex with this woman -- CHOOSE to use no birth control -- so he CHOOSE the risk of impregnating her.
At 38, she does not have the luxury of time to "find another partner and get pregnant".
However, even if she was 21 years old....it would be the same answer. He got her pregnant. HE DID THAT. He gave up his choices. She did not tie him down, rape him and "steal his sperm". He had sex willingly. That is a choice.
NOTE: it sounds like YOU are a man who never wants children. If so, have a vasectomy or quit complaining. You do NOT have a right to condom-free sex without consequences.
17
The boyfriend's objection to the pregnancy is a little too late. His responsibility to keep himself unencumbered by a child were done when he had unprotected sex. If it was that important to him, he should have used a condom. And how do 30-somethings not talk about a topic this important? I excuse teenagers for not discussing birth control, but I really thought 30+ year olds would know better.
If the woman wants the baby, she should keep it. There's no guarantee that she could get pregnant again. At 38 years old, she is considered "elderly" by the obstetric nurses!
If the woman wants the baby, she should keep it. There's no guarantee that she could get pregnant again. At 38 years old, she is considered "elderly" by the obstetric nurses!
259
It cannot be simply her decision. If she wants a child, she can adopt or try medical technology to get pregnant.
This is unethical.She is forcing a man who doesn't want to be a parent to be a parent, just bcz her clock is ticking. Whose problem is that?
This is robbing the man of a chance to make his own decision.
This is unethical.She is forcing a man who doesn't want to be a parent to be a parent, just bcz her clock is ticking. Whose problem is that?
This is robbing the man of a chance to make his own decision.
1
I think LW1 is suggesting he's already made his own decision: He's not willing to be raising a kid. Fine. But he can't force her to abort, either, wouldn't you agree?
6
N: yes, it actually IS her decision since it is HER BODY that he impregnated.
HIS choice existed on the day they had sex, and she asked him to use a condom and he refused. HIS CHOICE. He choose not to use a condom, hence he CHOOSE the risk of impregnating her.
No, she can't "just adopt". Adoption is expensive and very hard to do in the US, due to a lack of adoptable babies. IVF is also fantastically expensive -- $15,000 per cycle -- and painful! and doesn't usually work!
You are telling HER to give up HER only last chance at having a biological child -- because HE was too lazy and selfish to use a condom.
Sorry, but he gambled and lost. He had a decision; he choose "fun condom-free sex" and now he is a father. That is how nature works.
HIS choice existed on the day they had sex, and she asked him to use a condom and he refused. HIS CHOICE. He choose not to use a condom, hence he CHOOSE the risk of impregnating her.
No, she can't "just adopt". Adoption is expensive and very hard to do in the US, due to a lack of adoptable babies. IVF is also fantastically expensive -- $15,000 per cycle -- and painful! and doesn't usually work!
You are telling HER to give up HER only last chance at having a biological child -- because HE was too lazy and selfish to use a condom.
Sorry, but he gambled and lost. He had a decision; he choose "fun condom-free sex" and now he is a father. That is how nature works.
12
A man who does not ever want children should have a vasectomy. He should take more responsibility for his actions and choices and is not good father material. He is cowardly to say that you are having the baby against his will because he should have thought about that before impregnating you.
That said, it is hard for me to see this as a truly accidental pregnancy. Adults in their late 30s should know that sex can lead to pregnancy!
Keep the baby - this may be the only chance you get to have one. You can raise him/her yourself or for more stability, do open adoption so you can be involved at the level you want and boyfriend can be out of the picture while baby is raised by loving parents.
Also, if you "hope to fall in love with a man and have a child with him," which is what most women probably want, this boyfriend is not your guy. Find someone else.
That said, it is hard for me to see this as a truly accidental pregnancy. Adults in their late 30s should know that sex can lead to pregnancy!
Keep the baby - this may be the only chance you get to have one. You can raise him/her yourself or for more stability, do open adoption so you can be involved at the level you want and boyfriend can be out of the picture while baby is raised by loving parents.
Also, if you "hope to fall in love with a man and have a child with him," which is what most women probably want, this boyfriend is not your guy. Find someone else.
147
The boyfriend does not ever want children and wants unprotected sex. The ethical thing for him was to have had a vasectomy.
645
Sex involves 2 people. Either one of them coukd use birth control.
The man was clear about his intentions. He sgould not be forced into a decision has cannot be undone and the consequences of it he will have o bear for the rest of his life.
It is simply too selfish to decide to have a child with a person who doesn't want to be a parent.You are forcing the hand.It is rather cruel.
The man was clear about his intentions. He sgould not be forced into a decision has cannot be undone and the consequences of it he will have o bear for the rest of his life.
It is simply too selfish to decide to have a child with a person who doesn't want to be a parent.You are forcing the hand.It is rather cruel.
2
N: in life, you are only responsible for YOURSELF.
This man assumed the woman was using the Pill, but never asked (according to her) and never used a condom -- SHE requested he use a condom, but he refused to do so.
At the point he refused to use a condom...he CHOOSE to risk her becoming pregnant.
He was not a stupid 16 year old, but a middle aged adult man. Unless he is mentally incompetent, he had to realize that man + woman + sex = baby.
No excuses. He can refuse a relationship with the child, but he cannot get out of child support -- they have DNA testing today.
Why men are not more careful has always puzzled me. On some level, having "fun condom-free sex" means more to them than getting some woman pregnant -- as if an abortion was not a painful and emotional choice for that woman!
Sorry, charlie. This dude screwed up and now he has an 18 year obligation to HIS OWN CHILD.
This man assumed the woman was using the Pill, but never asked (according to her) and never used a condom -- SHE requested he use a condom, but he refused to do so.
At the point he refused to use a condom...he CHOOSE to risk her becoming pregnant.
He was not a stupid 16 year old, but a middle aged adult man. Unless he is mentally incompetent, he had to realize that man + woman + sex = baby.
No excuses. He can refuse a relationship with the child, but he cannot get out of child support -- they have DNA testing today.
Why men are not more careful has always puzzled me. On some level, having "fun condom-free sex" means more to them than getting some woman pregnant -- as if an abortion was not a painful and emotional choice for that woman!
Sorry, charlie. This dude screwed up and now he has an 18 year obligation to HIS OWN CHILD.
28
In Israel there is a legal concept called sperm theft. Whether intended or not, a man can take legal action against a woman whom he impregnated!
8
A woman can rob a man of his sperm while he is depositing them into her? Well, I ain't makin' Aliyah.
19
It is not theft when someone freely gave away what he could have held back, through vasectomy, condom usage, coitus interruptus, or indeed, abstinence. He had four different options available to attempt to keep his sperm to himself. It is his own fault if he failed to realize that unprotected sex leads to pregnancy; he should have paid attention to high school sex ed, or perhaps moved to Israel to take advantage of the unique Judaic legal view of sperm and birth control.
15
What a disgusting and backward law.
6
Late paying roommate: stop enabling her. She will just go on to hurt other people. People like her need clear consequences for their actions.
I cut my mom out of my life when I heard that she got drunk again and assaulted a family member. She still hasn't sought help for her alcoholism. Clearly alcohol is more important to her than a relationship with me is. I wonder if she would enter a program if my siblings were willing to do the same thing. But they keep bailing her out when she gets arrested and making excuses for her, so she keeps getting violently drunk with little to no consequences. What a sad life.
You could help in your former roommate's recovery by holding her to some standards of decency. People only seek help if they see a reason to.
I cut my mom out of my life when I heard that she got drunk again and assaulted a family member. She still hasn't sought help for her alcoholism. Clearly alcohol is more important to her than a relationship with me is. I wonder if she would enter a program if my siblings were willing to do the same thing. But they keep bailing her out when she gets arrested and making excuses for her, so she keeps getting violently drunk with little to no consequences. What a sad life.
You could help in your former roommate's recovery by holding her to some standards of decency. People only seek help if they see a reason to.
47
Kwame, Sound, handy advice to the woman struggling with one the oldest crises we humans got. I notice, however, your forgetting to remember the child’s ultimate curiosity: “Yes, your mommy wanted you, but your daddy didn’t.” Future cancer treatment is more about utility of the father than about love of the father, though for sure, marrow donation can be an act of love. Since love is the essence of her question, perhaps love should have been the essence of your answer.
Surgeons must be very careful
When they take the knife!
Underneath their fine incisions
Stirs the Culprit - Life! - E. Dickinson
Surgeons must be very careful
When they take the knife!
Underneath their fine incisions
Stirs the Culprit - Life! - E. Dickinson
6
re: 38 and pregnant
You're both at fault for the careless behavior that led to the pregnancy. But as long as there was no deliberate entrapment involved, that's not important now. There's a legitimate argument that it is ethically wrong for you to give birth to his child against his wishes, given that you would abort the child if it was against your wishes. There are three people involved here, and one decision maker. The fact that biology and the law gives you the power of decision makes you responsible for taking into account the views of the other two. The father will resent you and the child if you give birth to it, which will harm him and almost certainly have a negative effect on the child. If you proceed with the child you have to be prepared to respond, 10 years from now, to "Mom, Dad says he never wanted me, and I'm just your selfish mistake." That's going to be a tough one to handle, as it is a true representation of his feelings now, and may still be how he feels 10 years from now.
If you had wanted to be pregnant you should have gone to the sperm bank. The fact that you didn't, and were instead dating a man who doesn't want children, makes me question your commitment to being a mother, particularly given the burden of an unwelcoming father you'd be putting on the child.
You're both at fault for the careless behavior that led to the pregnancy. But as long as there was no deliberate entrapment involved, that's not important now. There's a legitimate argument that it is ethically wrong for you to give birth to his child against his wishes, given that you would abort the child if it was against your wishes. There are three people involved here, and one decision maker. The fact that biology and the law gives you the power of decision makes you responsible for taking into account the views of the other two. The father will resent you and the child if you give birth to it, which will harm him and almost certainly have a negative effect on the child. If you proceed with the child you have to be prepared to respond, 10 years from now, to "Mom, Dad says he never wanted me, and I'm just your selfish mistake." That's going to be a tough one to handle, as it is a true representation of his feelings now, and may still be how he feels 10 years from now.
If you had wanted to be pregnant you should have gone to the sperm bank. The fact that you didn't, and were instead dating a man who doesn't want children, makes me question your commitment to being a mother, particularly given the burden of an unwelcoming father you'd be putting on the child.
67
Call me old fashioned but I have to agree. Whatever the age, honest conversation about birth control needs to happen "before" sex. Couples intending intimacy should also should get tested to make sure no diseases are present. How can they expect to confront the possibility of what can result from sex--a pregnancy--if they haven't covered the basics necessary to establish some modicum of trust? I can't imagine this woman even calling this guy--her boyfriend--if they haven't managed to exchange the level of information she describes "before" getting intimately involved. I wouldn't advise her to see the pregnancy through--without a serious conversation with a therapist to really evaluate if she's prepared to be a single parent.
20
It's not the woman who's "putting the burden of an unwelcoming father"! He-he is the only one who is responsible for that. But if at all possible, removing the irresponsible man from the child's life long before birth would be in best interest of mother and child, for stress during pregnancy impacts development.
Honestly, both above commenters have it wrong.
Honestly, both above commenters have it wrong.
6
It is hardly a perfect world. Many Moms were indeed 'committed' to being mothers, yet became pregnant accidently, and raised their child in a loving home. She didn't go to a sperm bank, because she wanted to find a good man with whom to have a child. We can't always control our lives to turn out exactly the way we want them to be.
2
Wow - that first question is one hot button issue. As someone who is Pro Choice, I admit I am a bit surprised by my reaction and not entirely sure my response isn't a bit hypocritical. But here goes - if you want to have this baby you should. I'm uncomfortable with your having an abortion because the father doesn't want it when you want the child. I guess the bottom line is I support a woman's ability to control her own body. To have an abortion and then go the sperm donor route seems really odd. And as someone who had a child at 41 via sperm donor - I will say fertility is a bit of a cliff - you really do not know when you come to the end and I would not assume this accidental pregnancy can be easily repeated. Good luck.
186
Re first question and baby. If the woman decides to have the baby, and even if both her and and the man decide he will not be involved in any kind of fathering, there will be someone else who should have the biggest say in this. The child might very well WANT to know its father and as he/she grows up, might WANT his/her father to be involved. That embryo will become a real person if the woman goes through with the pregnancy, and as a real person, should have rights to his or her parents and parentage. Also, personally, I think it is totally unfair and wrong of her to have a baby of a man who has made clear that he does not want a baby. If she wants a baby that badly, she can go to a sperm bank.
29
Or adopt.
11
No, this is not a matter of a woman finding a man who doesn't want to be a father and then forcing him to become one. These were two people who both made choices that resulted in a reasonable event- pregnancy.
The only thing worthy of consideration now is WHAT IS: a pregnancy. Going backward and pointing fingers (illogically!) doesn't help anyone, and the woman did nothing wrong here.
A pregnancy- a life is developing and that is all that merits consideration. Does the woman want to be the mother of this child? If yes, keep the pregnancy, and don't look back!
The only thing worthy of consideration now is WHAT IS: a pregnancy. Going backward and pointing fingers (illogically!) doesn't help anyone, and the woman did nothing wrong here.
A pregnancy- a life is developing and that is all that merits consideration. Does the woman want to be the mother of this child? If yes, keep the pregnancy, and don't look back!
6
But this logic equally argues against a woman who chooses to have a child by insemination from an anonymous donor. Should she be prevented from bearing a child because she'll be unable, later, to identify the father for her (understandably) curious child?
4
Regarding the woman considering an abortion:
At this point it's your body, your decision. Much in the same way many people see it as ridiculous that men can try to force a woman to have an unwanted baby by barring her right to an abortion, I find it equally ridiculous that your boyfriend thinks he can force you to get an abortion because HE doesn't want the child. The situation would present a stronger ethical dilemma if you deliberately mislead him to try to have a baby against his will, but the fact that his own lack of ensuring against an unwanted pregnancy led to this situation gives him zero ethical sway over what you now do with your body. If you carry the child to term, it's your body that does it. If you decide to end the pregnancy, it's still your body that has to undergo the procedure and you who has to live with any potential regret of ending a pregnancy you wanted. He really shouldn't get to have equal weight in this decision when all he did was (carelessly) provide the sperm. The only consequence he would have to live with would be whatever psychological discomfort a person walking around with his genes apparently brings him.
At this point it's your body, your decision. Much in the same way many people see it as ridiculous that men can try to force a woman to have an unwanted baby by barring her right to an abortion, I find it equally ridiculous that your boyfriend thinks he can force you to get an abortion because HE doesn't want the child. The situation would present a stronger ethical dilemma if you deliberately mislead him to try to have a baby against his will, but the fact that his own lack of ensuring against an unwanted pregnancy led to this situation gives him zero ethical sway over what you now do with your body. If you carry the child to term, it's your body that does it. If you decide to end the pregnancy, it's still your body that has to undergo the procedure and you who has to live with any potential regret of ending a pregnancy you wanted. He really shouldn't get to have equal weight in this decision when all he did was (carelessly) provide the sperm. The only consequence he would have to live with would be whatever psychological discomfort a person walking around with his genes apparently brings him.
66
"Carelessly" provide the sperm? At least he thought she was using birth control, whereas she was *intentionally* having unprotected sex that could very well lead to pregnancy. And she did this knowing full well that he didn't want children. I'm sorry, but that's just incredibly selfish. Also, if she gets an abortion, it's not just her (as you imply), it's both of them that has to live with any potential regret. To frame it as if all the potential physical/emotional trauma is on the woman's side is, frankly, a bit shocking and suggests you are operating under a double standard.
4
Yes, "careless" is the right word. He didn't use a condom, he didn't get a vasectomy despite never wanting to have children, and he didn't even ask if she were using birth control, just "assumed" that she did. Careless is exactly the right word.
5
But both parties were careless.
1
My boyfriend is disturbed, angry and upset that I would have his baby ‘‘against his will,’’ as he put it.
*******
Either way he's shouldn't be your boyfriend anymore. It's very easy to get the idea you would have an abortion because that's what he wants, and that you want to keep him. At this point it's not about what he wants. He got what he wanted awhile back. Just have him sign off on parental rights.
*******
Either way he's shouldn't be your boyfriend anymore. It's very easy to get the idea you would have an abortion because that's what he wants, and that you want to keep him. At this point it's not about what he wants. He got what he wanted awhile back. Just have him sign off on parental rights.
101
Yes, I know Apiah said he is not a lawyer, but why not note that if the BF really does not want the child, sign away his rights and obligations and go on from there.
2
Not a lawyer, but from what I understand, a man who signs away his paternal rights is still on the hook for child support.
5
Exactly!
1
The pregnant woman: the man gave his seed away freely. She is in a position to raise a child, and is healthy.
If a branch from my tree falls on my neighbors' yard, that branch is their responsibility. Just as if my tree branch produces fruit, they get the fruit.
The man is an idiot, obvious from the fact that he had no idea what they were doing could produce a child. Being pro-choice means that a woman has the right to keep the promise of a child, as well as to end it.
Something else to think about: I have 4 children, with 2 ex-husbands, and 3 of them look like their fathers, walk like their fathers.
The only one that looks like me is building giant fighting robots in California with MegaBots. Neither he nor his father ever did anything like that.
Genes are powerful things. So are mutations.
If a branch from my tree falls on my neighbors' yard, that branch is their responsibility. Just as if my tree branch produces fruit, they get the fruit.
The man is an idiot, obvious from the fact that he had no idea what they were doing could produce a child. Being pro-choice means that a woman has the right to keep the promise of a child, as well as to end it.
Something else to think about: I have 4 children, with 2 ex-husbands, and 3 of them look like their fathers, walk like their fathers.
The only one that looks like me is building giant fighting robots in California with MegaBots. Neither he nor his father ever did anything like that.
Genes are powerful things. So are mutations.
29
And sometimes genes skip a generation or two.
2
What do genes have to do with this?
The issue is a man who doesn't want to be a father, and the ethical consequences of forcing him to become one.
The issue is a man who doesn't want to be a father, and the ethical consequences of forcing him to become one.
You surely can and you should keep this baby... your biological clock is ticking. At 38, if you have an abortion you can possibly become infertile. Abortion in itself is a risky procedure. Go and do a bit of research and you will see what they do inside your uterus to clean out that baby.
The boyfriend, well he knew what was going on. I had unprotected sex before with the girlfriend becoming pregnant and guess what? She wanted to keep her baby and she did. So, I have a son who has no relation with me but he exists and her mother knows my details in case there is some medical need in the future (our case is complicated for I moved to a different country for some time and she didn't want to).
I recommend against an abortion just because you are 38... My current wife started having miscarriages at 40... time is of the essence for you.
The boyfriend, well he knew what was going on. I had unprotected sex before with the girlfriend becoming pregnant and guess what? She wanted to keep her baby and she did. So, I have a son who has no relation with me but he exists and her mother knows my details in case there is some medical need in the future (our case is complicated for I moved to a different country for some time and she didn't want to).
I recommend against an abortion just because you are 38... My current wife started having miscarriages at 40... time is of the essence for you.
52
Your implication that a safe, doctor-supervised abortion might CAUSE infertility is patently false and obviously a ploy to frighten uninformed women. Go read a medical book sometime and stop the thinly veiled anti-choice tirades.
20
Abortion does not affect future fertility unless it was done with a knitting needle in a back alley. Millions of women have had healthy pregnancies after abortion.
15
Don't at all agree with the abortion will cause you to be infertile baloney, but yes late 30s and early 40s follicle counts go way down and they can go down fast. Just b/c you got pregnant at 38 doesn't at all mean you will get pregnant at 39 or 40.
10
Everyone knows that having heterosexual sex means risking having a baby so it is hard to feel sorry for this guy, presumably in his late 30s also, not understanding that this was a possibility and not having had serious discussions about it in advance. You want the baby? Have the baby.
108
Sometimes people want to say that the pro-life viewpoint derives completely from religion, though there are non-religious people and outright atheists who are against abortion.
But from a purely objective, biological standpoint, sex is for making babies. We have a sex drive, and derive pleasure from sex, because those of our ancestors who didn't have sex didn't reproduce. Any fertile human who has sex has to know that pregnancy is a very possible outcome. I have NO sympathy for the guy. And unlike Dave and Kwame, I will go there: I'm appalled that anyone would want the incipient child to pay the ultimate price because her father wanted to have his fun and never bothered to open his mouth and say "let's make sure we don't conceive."
Have your baby, and enjoy the heck out of motherhood. If the boyfriend comes around and falls in love with his child against his expectations, he will not be the first.
But from a purely objective, biological standpoint, sex is for making babies. We have a sex drive, and derive pleasure from sex, because those of our ancestors who didn't have sex didn't reproduce. Any fertile human who has sex has to know that pregnancy is a very possible outcome. I have NO sympathy for the guy. And unlike Dave and Kwame, I will go there: I'm appalled that anyone would want the incipient child to pay the ultimate price because her father wanted to have his fun and never bothered to open his mouth and say "let's make sure we don't conceive."
Have your baby, and enjoy the heck out of motherhood. If the boyfriend comes around and falls in love with his child against his expectations, he will not be the first.
139
No matter what her decision, she should drop the boyfriend pronto. Anyone who thinks he has the right to control someone's body is not a "keeper," IMHO.
14
If the boyfriend didn't ever want children, he should have made sure he couldn't sire children (i.e. vasectomy).
284
Or buy condoms by the case. Although my husband and I conceived our second child while using two forms of birth control.
2
Regarding the pregnancy: It sounds like you want the baby. Keep the baby. Dump the boyfriend.
403
AMEN!!!
4
Keep the pregnancy if you want it, but do dump the selfish boyfriend.
143
...and the selfish boyfriend is legally and morally responsible for child support, no matter what his wishes. Arguably, even if you don't wish to ask him for child support, the well-being of the child is at stake here, and you have a moral obligation (though not a legal one) to get the best support for your child.
5
"I am 38 and accidentally pregnant."
If you are having sex & not using birth control - as stated at the end of the letter, you are NOT accidently pregnant!
If you are having sex & not using birth control - as stated at the end of the letter, you are NOT accidently pregnant!
364
It is accidental if it's not intentional. Even if she uses birth control, there is no method that's 100% effective. Since he's the one who doesn't want to produce any progeny, he could have had a vasectomy or not have sex with her. He didn't and she got pregnant; she wants the baby, she should keep it- it's her decision. He doesn't want it- he can walk away, but cannot force her to terminate the pregnancy.
10
YES! Apiah analyzes her last sentence in terms of unprotected sex and transmission of disease. But read what she says "If it matters [as if it diesn't], he thought I was on birth control (but never asked and I had requested that he wear a condom at least once before) so he didn't know he was having unprotected sex". Yet she knew she was engaging in sex unprotected from the possibility of pregnancy.
She is concerned about her biological clock and expresses a desire to have a child. Given this, did she at some level intentionally leave herself open to pregnancy? Surely a woman who recognizes at least the theoretical need for contraception understands not using it leaves open the possibility of pregnancy. Yet she reflects that she must be highly fertile. Does she really believe this or is it an excuse for what she has permitted?
She should speak with a counselor about her motivations and sort through what she wants to do BEFORE she and her boyfriend see a counselor jointly. She has to do so quickly; her chances of obtaining an abortion may be reduced the longer she waits.
Whether it is ethical fto have the child? If through counseling she recognizes she unconsciously had unprotected sex TO become pregnant, she may more readily discern the right course of action. IMO if she finds she wants the child, she should go for it. She is pro-choice so presumably believes in a woman's right to decide to an abortion regardless of the father's opinion. Why not the obverse?
She is concerned about her biological clock and expresses a desire to have a child. Given this, did she at some level intentionally leave herself open to pregnancy? Surely a woman who recognizes at least the theoretical need for contraception understands not using it leaves open the possibility of pregnancy. Yet she reflects that she must be highly fertile. Does she really believe this or is it an excuse for what she has permitted?
She should speak with a counselor about her motivations and sort through what she wants to do BEFORE she and her boyfriend see a counselor jointly. She has to do so quickly; her chances of obtaining an abortion may be reduced the longer she waits.
Whether it is ethical fto have the child? If through counseling she recognizes she unconsciously had unprotected sex TO become pregnant, she may more readily discern the right course of action. IMO if she finds she wants the child, she should go for it. She is pro-choice so presumably believes in a woman's right to decide to an abortion regardless of the father's opinion. Why not the obverse?
11
@human being: yes, sometimes people do things to deliberately force a consequence -- because CHOOSING is so hard in our society where we have virtually unlimited choices.
Some women - - consciously or unconsciously -- want "baby mama drama" -- a pregnancy FORCES a discussion with your partner -- forces a decision. Does he love you at all? want to stay at all? want children at all?
This is why naive lefty memes about "put all young girls on LARC methods of birth control" are not as helpful as they think. Not ever woman knows when she wants to get pregnant. If the pregnancy is accidental, you don't have to face the consequences of your choice -- "it was just an accident" -- let's you off the hook. Nature makes the decision FOR YOU.
I think this particular woman knew very well what having unprotected sex meant -- and her partner did too, if he was honest -- two middled aged adults in total denial. Oh that poor baby. But honestly, she wanted the choice and I do not believe for one second it is a "thing" in her womb that she does not care if she aborts or not.
It's time to "woman up" and admit your actions and consequences, and accept you wanted this baby -- have it -- as a single mother -- not ideal, but socially quite acceptable in 2017. The father owes you child support no matter what he thinks he wanted. The child has the right to support from his biological father, period.
Some women - - consciously or unconsciously -- want "baby mama drama" -- a pregnancy FORCES a discussion with your partner -- forces a decision. Does he love you at all? want to stay at all? want children at all?
This is why naive lefty memes about "put all young girls on LARC methods of birth control" are not as helpful as they think. Not ever woman knows when she wants to get pregnant. If the pregnancy is accidental, you don't have to face the consequences of your choice -- "it was just an accident" -- let's you off the hook. Nature makes the decision FOR YOU.
I think this particular woman knew very well what having unprotected sex meant -- and her partner did too, if he was honest -- two middled aged adults in total denial. Oh that poor baby. But honestly, she wanted the choice and I do not believe for one second it is a "thing" in her womb that she does not care if she aborts or not.
It's time to "woman up" and admit your actions and consequences, and accept you wanted this baby -- have it -- as a single mother -- not ideal, but socially quite acceptable in 2017. The father owes you child support no matter what he thinks he wanted. The child has the right to support from his biological father, period.
3
The pregnant woman should get an abortion ASAP. It would be extremely unethical to carry a baby to term if the boyfriend does not consent.
If she is concerned about her limited fertility window, she can choose a donor from a sperm bank and have a child on her own, without entangling a man who does not want to become a parent.
If she is concerned about her limited fertility window, she can choose a donor from a sperm bank and have a child on her own, without entangling a man who does not want to become a parent.
19
That is a lot less easy than you think. A sperm bank is not a garage that fixes cars. Also, she will dump the boyfriend anyway so no harm done.
12
"If she is concerned about her limited fertility window, she can choose a donor from a sperm bank and have a child on her own, without entangling a man who does not want to become a parent."
cooljay, At 38 there is no guarantee that she could get pregnant ever again. Aborting a wanted child just to change fathers is unethical and ridiculous.
The father is old enough to know that sex can produce babies even with contraceptives, plus he chose not to get vasectomy.
cooljay, At 38 there is no guarantee that she could get pregnant ever again. Aborting a wanted child just to change fathers is unethical and ridiculous.
The father is old enough to know that sex can produce babies even with contraceptives, plus he chose not to get vasectomy.
14
Really? If the boyfriend was so set up against having children, why didm't he have a vasectomy?
15
Didn't the boyfriend realize if he was sexually active a pregnancy could result? Even if birth control was used on a more regular basis, sometimes it fails. He should have thought about fatherhood ahead of time and either been more careful or more willing to accept that he could become a biological father. Is sex education so bad (abstinence only doesn't seem to be working) that adults still don't know how fertilization works?
168
Every time a couple has sex, if they are fertile then they are taking a very realistic chance that the woman will become pregnant.
I am just amazed in this day and age, that ADULTS in their late 30s and 40s are so cavalier about having unprotected sex -- as if they don't think conception is possible if "you aren't in love".
Come on! how stupid is that? And when a man has unprotected sex, he is basically saying "it's OK for my female partner to get pregnant" because that is how sex and nature and life work. I am afraid the lame old excuse that "oh, I thought she was on the Pill!" -- that does not work! -- hello! -- he did not ask? he just assumed?
Sorry, charlie. He made a choice to have unprotected sex and this is the result of unprotected sex. If he is such an jerk that he wants nothing to do with the child, that is his choice (as an immature jerk) but he still owes child support for 18 years (23 years in Massachusetts!).
I am just amazed in this day and age, that ADULTS in their late 30s and 40s are so cavalier about having unprotected sex -- as if they don't think conception is possible if "you aren't in love".
Come on! how stupid is that? And when a man has unprotected sex, he is basically saying "it's OK for my female partner to get pregnant" because that is how sex and nature and life work. I am afraid the lame old excuse that "oh, I thought she was on the Pill!" -- that does not work! -- hello! -- he did not ask? he just assumed?
Sorry, charlie. He made a choice to have unprotected sex and this is the result of unprotected sex. If he is such an jerk that he wants nothing to do with the child, that is his choice (as an immature jerk) but he still owes child support for 18 years (23 years in Massachusetts!).
9
To the pregnant 38-year-old,
I think you should find someone to talk to about this conundrum along with talking to the boyfriend/potential father. I don't know whether it would be a psychiatric counselor, a really good friend, an aunt or cousin or someone else. You have a lot of conflicting desires/thoughts/needs; you seem to already know that. One way to try to sort them out is to voice them aloud to a sympathetic and mindful listener who hopefully will make gentle observations. Good luck. Time is of the essence, of course.
I think you should find someone to talk to about this conundrum along with talking to the boyfriend/potential father. I don't know whether it would be a psychiatric counselor, a really good friend, an aunt or cousin or someone else. You have a lot of conflicting desires/thoughts/needs; you seem to already know that. One way to try to sort them out is to voice them aloud to a sympathetic and mindful listener who hopefully will make gentle observations. Good luck. Time is of the essence, of course.
104
Thank you for your thoughtful and wise comment. Although I think that you have treated this as a practical concern and not addressed ethics per se, I find your comment to be one of few thus far that implicitly acknowledges that the LW obviously has a highly sophisticated appreciation of the ethical dimensions of her situation - an appreciation that should be honored. Her words leave little doubt that she is being truthful, accepts responsibility for a mistake, feels empathy for her boyfriend despite his own mistake and contradictory views, is considering the ramifications of a decision on the potential child. Pity that she did not start by seeking counseling, as you suggest.
Instead, in seeking advice by writing to this column, she is off-the-bat scolded by Prof. Appiah, then offered words that amount to a summary of what she obviously has already considered; all followed by a steaming pile of commenter scolding, rants about her boyfriend, anecdotes, sexual politics.
IMO, perhaps ironically what is demonstrated is that the LW has a a grasp of ethics that vastly exceeds many if not most of the above individuals. I think I'd be proud to know this LW, regardless of her decision.
Instead, in seeking advice by writing to this column, she is off-the-bat scolded by Prof. Appiah, then offered words that amount to a summary of what she obviously has already considered; all followed by a steaming pile of commenter scolding, rants about her boyfriend, anecdotes, sexual politics.
IMO, perhaps ironically what is demonstrated is that the LW has a a grasp of ethics that vastly exceeds many if not most of the above individuals. I think I'd be proud to know this LW, regardless of her decision.
7
Not touching the first one.
Regarding the student going to Rwanda, I see no reason why she shouldn't do the research. She probably has some passion for the subject and may have a unique perspective (it's also possible that many/most people are in a similar position, their passion a result of their experiences). However, in the interest of accurately representing the situation, I think that the researchers' relevant history should be disclosed in some way (including those who have no history and therefore don't know what it's like). If the findings are aggregated into a single study, it might be feasible while mostly retaining the confidentiality of the researchers. If each researcher publishes his/her own findings, it is up to the individual as to whether or no to disclose. And yes, I would prefer to see this across the spectrum, no matter what the subject.
Regarding the late-paying roommate, I see it as a conflict between trying to help the former roommate and properly representing the former roommate to future landlords. Obviously, when payment plans (including the original lease) are determined, the payer's financial situation can only be estimated, so as long as the payer makes a good faith effort to meet his/her obligations, I wouldn't have a problem tweaking it. But good faith effort (including communication) is required. Simply blowing off one's obligation doesn't get much benefit of the doubt.
Regarding the student going to Rwanda, I see no reason why she shouldn't do the research. She probably has some passion for the subject and may have a unique perspective (it's also possible that many/most people are in a similar position, their passion a result of their experiences). However, in the interest of accurately representing the situation, I think that the researchers' relevant history should be disclosed in some way (including those who have no history and therefore don't know what it's like). If the findings are aggregated into a single study, it might be feasible while mostly retaining the confidentiality of the researchers. If each researcher publishes his/her own findings, it is up to the individual as to whether or no to disclose. And yes, I would prefer to see this across the spectrum, no matter what the subject.
Regarding the late-paying roommate, I see it as a conflict between trying to help the former roommate and properly representing the former roommate to future landlords. Obviously, when payment plans (including the original lease) are determined, the payer's financial situation can only be estimated, so as long as the payer makes a good faith effort to meet his/her obligations, I wouldn't have a problem tweaking it. But good faith effort (including communication) is required. Simply blowing off one's obligation doesn't get much benefit of the doubt.
26
A person dealing with addiction pays ninety per cent of a debt but is unable or unwilling to finish the job. Who benefits from further punishing this woman?Portia said, "The quality of mercy is not strained." It sounds like this woman has done the best she could do. Let her be. There is no need for a pound of flesh on top of everything else she has suffered. Kindness is ethical.
31
Jude - the deciding factor is whether she is unable or unwilling. If she is able but unwilling to finish paying her debt, then it's fair game to go after her for the rest. If she is unable to pay, her willingness is unknown, and a plan can be worked out for the rest or the rest can be forgiven.
7
As the niece of a person with consistent, recurring addiction issues, I have to politely disagree about the 'let her be'. The problem is not now, and it's not necessarily the letter writer who will suffer. Does the letter writer ethically owe more to the former roommate, or to all the people who might be hurt down the line by this person? Speaking from experience, once money is owed, it's almost never fully repaid - the addiction always comes first. A note on a credit report might make it harder for the former roommate to rent, but it also might save a potential landlord thousands in unpaid rent bills, or another roommate from a wrecked credit score.
Kindness is wonderful, and it is ethical. The fact that the roommate is NINE months behind and hasn't been reported yet is already kind. A note/email/phonecall that the former roommate has x months (say, three, to make it an even year) to pay or be reported to the court would be kind as well. Forgiving the debt and potentially sinking someone else is foolish. Take it from someone who watched a parent do the forgive thing over and over... and ended up carrying a huge debt for a brother who just keeps taking.
Kindness is wonderful, and it is ethical. The fact that the roommate is NINE months behind and hasn't been reported yet is already kind. A note/email/phonecall that the former roommate has x months (say, three, to make it an even year) to pay or be reported to the court would be kind as well. Forgiving the debt and potentially sinking someone else is foolish. Take it from someone who watched a parent do the forgive thing over and over... and ended up carrying a huge debt for a brother who just keeps taking.
1