if you want informal writing full of expression, get a Facebook or Instagram account.
1
graduated in 03'. I learned sentence diagramming in junior high. I practiced it so much that I had one notebook filled with diagrams. Many of us often wondered what was the point including myself. I saw it after awhile. I thank my parents or choice in my private school education.
8
Well worth subscribing to Mignon Fogarty's Grammar Girl podcast at http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/grammar-girl Eight minutes a week of of very clear, informative, and entertaining grammar lessons.
3
Transform teaching into a prestigious profession.
Require every aspiring teacher to major in something other than education.
But then require an advanced degree in specialized graduate programs in education.
Make those graduate programs highly selective.
Pay teachers salaries that are on par with other high-status professions.
Eliminate property taxes as the primary source of funding for schools.
Have the federal government assume the primary role for educational funding in the U.S.
Give teachers more autonomy and respect.
Last, but not least, heal broken communities.
These steps are not sufficient, but I believe they are necessary if we want to achieve widespread educational reform in this country.
Require every aspiring teacher to major in something other than education.
But then require an advanced degree in specialized graduate programs in education.
Make those graduate programs highly selective.
Pay teachers salaries that are on par with other high-status professions.
Eliminate property taxes as the primary source of funding for schools.
Have the federal government assume the primary role for educational funding in the U.S.
Give teachers more autonomy and respect.
Last, but not least, heal broken communities.
These steps are not sufficient, but I believe they are necessary if we want to achieve widespread educational reform in this country.
33
Ms Goldstein had fun making "free writing" look silly and ineffective, and posing the teaching of writing processes against sentence drills. Too often, journalists like to see conflict, whether it's there or not. She doesn't seem to have knowledge of "writers Workshop," in which students do a great deal of in-class writing with individual coaching and short lessons on many aspects of writing, including ideas, purpose, voice, consideration of audience, and CRAFT. Good teachers of writing help students with all of it, rather than take one "side" or another. Unfortunately, not enough resources are put toward helping less skilled or newer teachers learn this. It was ever thus.
--Steve Zemelman, Director, Illinois Writing Project and visiting scholar, Northeastern Illinois University
--Steve Zemelman, Director, Illinois Writing Project and visiting scholar, Northeastern Illinois University
11
I have read many comments here which emphasize either Grammar OR Reading as most important as if they are disassociated skills. Learning sentence structure is vital & becoming proficient requires reading to drive lessons home for students.
6
Growing up with a father who worked as a journalist and a mother who worked in communications, I was taught the importance of proper grammar much earlier than most. While I was never forced to memorize the rules of grammar, and never really understood them anyway, I learned proper grammar by reading the works of others. I was also forced to write essays, short and long, during high school, as well as during exams, which allowed me to learn through trial and error, rather than sequential learning techniques. I think it is important to focus on the story while writing because you can always teach grammar during the editing/revision process. It seems like students lack the ability to edit their own work, as they think the first draft is good enough, when a "draft" is just that-- a DRAFT! I believe it is the process of seeing the mistake in the context of the larger written piece and figuring out how to FIX that mistake that leads to a long-term understanding of grammatical rules. When you are writing on a topic you are interested in or passionate about, then you are more likely to recall the mistakes made, as well as the corrections required, later on down the road. It is the ability to identify proper grammar through the context of one's own writing that is important--not rote memorization.
12
Retired high school English teacher--my district employed a very structured writing program from elementary through secondary levels. Teachers were given training in a variety of methods to help students improve their writing and voice as well as other aspects were valued and emphasized. The problem is that GRADING student writing and rewriting to improve mistakes takes time---time is the most difficult aspect of curricula to have and use. MORE is the mantra---crowd more of everything into the day. Usually the requirements are set by the state legislators who have no background in education and love standardized testing to evaluate progress and success. In my experience many younger English teachers are not comfortable teaching grammar and prefer to skip it for more touchy-feels assignments---but grading and rewriting are the real stumbling blocks...Give English teachers an extra free period for grading and make sure they use it for that...
16
This is an interesting article on gifted and dyslexic children that many of the educators on here could do with taking a look at https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/watching-prodigies-for-th/
and also this http://www.gifteddyslexic.com/dyslexia-information/a-positive-view-of-dy...
and also this http://www.gifteddyslexic.com/dyslexia-information/a-positive-view-of-dy...
2
Immigrants aren't coming to teach them.
2
I am shocked at just how ignorant people are about dyslexia (particularly teachers, but it does not surprise me, as most teachers cannot identify dyslexia). 1 in 10 people in the UK are dyslexic, 1 in 5 in the US. People really need to stop judging people based upon their spelling, grammar and punctuation. My own very intelligent sons are dyslexic and they excelled in Maths and Science (one studied Engineering and the other is doing Architecture). Dyslexia has no bearing on intelligence and many dyslexics have above average intelligence and are very creative. Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steven Spielberg, Richard Branson, John Lennon and many others are/were dyslexic. 40% of the world's self-made millionaires are dyslexic. Too many children go through school wrongly being labelled as lazy or unintelligent due to their poor spelling, grammar and punctuation. Always remember before you criticise a person's spelling, that they may be far more intelligent than you. Here is a great video from Made by Dyslexia https://www.facebook.com/madebydyslexia/videos/798172910354370/
4
One in 10 is dyslexic...
1
I am a retired special Ed and substitute teacher. I did this later in life. My hs students when asked to write a paper about a book we read copied and pasted text from the internet and glued the text on a board. I was shocked. My fellow teachers told me that's what they do. I assumed it was a special Ed thing. Then I was a substitute teacher and learned that this is par for the course. My experience is limited but wow. Is this poor teaching, access to the internet. I don't know but it does not look good for our future.
11
When I went back to college in 1989, I had wanted to become an English teacher. After I failed to learn five different approaches to grammar, I gave up and pursued a different major.
When I was going to high school in the 1970s (graduated in '75); we had classes in Independent Reading and Writing, and Creative Writing. We had to have 4 years of English in order to graduate. I learned how to write essays; most subject tests included at least one essay question that covered the scope of the material on a test and allowed you to demonstrate how you synthesized what you had learned from lectures and reading.
I am a firm believer that multiple choice tests are a poor representation of what a person has learned about a topic. They are an easy to correct device that teachers have gravitated towards as they have been overburdened by increased class sizes and lack of resources. I recognize that grading an essay takes longer and also requires a teacher to correct a student's grammar; however, I think it is necessary for the student to gain both proficiency in the studied subject and writing skills.
When I was going to high school in the 1970s (graduated in '75); we had classes in Independent Reading and Writing, and Creative Writing. We had to have 4 years of English in order to graduate. I learned how to write essays; most subject tests included at least one essay question that covered the scope of the material on a test and allowed you to demonstrate how you synthesized what you had learned from lectures and reading.
I am a firm believer that multiple choice tests are a poor representation of what a person has learned about a topic. They are an easy to correct device that teachers have gravitated towards as they have been overburdened by increased class sizes and lack of resources. I recognize that grading an essay takes longer and also requires a teacher to correct a student's grammar; however, I think it is necessary for the student to gain both proficiency in the studied subject and writing skills.
10
The key is READING. Someone who has spent her childhood playing games on an iPad is sadly ill-equipped to write a coherent sentence, let alone a paragraph.
22
Dear Dana,
Why kids can't write...because the adults surrounding them can't write.
Best,
Marielle
Why kids can't write...because the adults surrounding them can't write.
Best,
Marielle
16
It doesn't matter if dyslexic children have parents around them who can write well or not, they will still be dyslexic. Many do inherit if from a parent though.
3
I like the split infinitive "to successfully" in an article about grammar. No one likes unnecessary pedantry or punitive rules. However, having commonly accepted rules is what makes language understandable.
2
The split infinitive has for many years been accepted in Standard English.
9
I'm sure the writer and editor of this article are perfectly aware of the rule regarding split infinitives. They likely just chose to disregard the rule in this instance, which is perfectly acceptable when the situation calls for it. Better to split an infinitive and retain clarity than to tie your sentence in knots. Good writers follow the rules but the best writers know how and when to break them.
8
Maybe the split infinitive is accepted in American Englush, but it drives me crazy!
Your point is well-taken.
Your point is well-taken.
Homophones
Atrocious handwriting
and spelling yet worse
are two explanations
why I struggle far more
with words than equations.
A secretary was my salvation.
My illegible scrawl she deciphered
and formed the words I desired
with proper spelling and definition.
But she retired, I know not why,
and left me to fend for myself,
till a word processor came to my desk.
My illegible scrawl I abandoned
and learned to type impeccable text.
.
My spelling’s horror was thus exposed,
legibly typed for all to see,
‘till finally a spellchecker rescued me.
Its little red lines showed the way,
my misspellings to cast away.
But homophones, they are my nemesis,
evading my spellchecker’s premises:
From border and boarder
to waste and waist,
throughout my prose,
many a pair remain lurking there.
Yet no little red lines ever appear
to tell me when trouble is near.
With no red lines in front of my face,
homophones lead me to disgrace.
Those who spelling have mastered,
often convulse in laughter,
when they are exposed
to my unedited prose.
I know what I want to say,
and how to say it,
but heaven help me
if I’m forced to write it.
Or should that be right it?
Atrocious handwriting
and spelling yet worse
are two explanations
why I struggle far more
with words than equations.
A secretary was my salvation.
My illegible scrawl she deciphered
and formed the words I desired
with proper spelling and definition.
But she retired, I know not why,
and left me to fend for myself,
till a word processor came to my desk.
My illegible scrawl I abandoned
and learned to type impeccable text.
.
My spelling’s horror was thus exposed,
legibly typed for all to see,
‘till finally a spellchecker rescued me.
Its little red lines showed the way,
my misspellings to cast away.
But homophones, they are my nemesis,
evading my spellchecker’s premises:
From border and boarder
to waste and waist,
throughout my prose,
many a pair remain lurking there.
Yet no little red lines ever appear
to tell me when trouble is near.
With no red lines in front of my face,
homophones lead me to disgrace.
Those who spelling have mastered,
often convulse in laughter,
when they are exposed
to my unedited prose.
I know what I want to say,
and how to say it,
but heaven help me
if I’m forced to write it.
Or should that be right it?
6
Exact experiences of a dyslexic.
1
i lost faith in teachers capacity to teach writing even a classmate was given 20/20 for an essay despite using "every1" in it.
3
The Common Core cannot implement itself. Most teachers, indeed most of us, were not trained as writers or even to recognize good writing. That can be changed by aiding teachers to become better writers as well as better judges of writing. Groups like the National Writing Project have been effective when they have worked within schools. And expecting excellent writing from students enrolled in teacher training programs will help enormously.
And to echo many others writing here, good writers and good teachers of writing spend lots of time reading a variety of texts. Ironically, it takes that range of reading to recognize other voices and to then be able to recognize, develop, and insist upon one's own voice.
As a former teacher I had the best luck teaching grammar backwards or informally. Help students to write a variety of sentence constructions, and after they can write them, it's easier to introduce the language describing the grammatical constructions they are using. (Writing educators like Don Killgallon have written widely and wisely on this approach.) It's not that I believe we should not teach grammar; I'm just convinced there are better methods of teaching grammar than teaching definitions and testing students on them. Teach writing, help students write, and then talk about the structures they're using and the rules they're following. That's naming what they do and helping them to understand from the inside out.
And to echo many others writing here, good writers and good teachers of writing spend lots of time reading a variety of texts. Ironically, it takes that range of reading to recognize other voices and to then be able to recognize, develop, and insist upon one's own voice.
As a former teacher I had the best luck teaching grammar backwards or informally. Help students to write a variety of sentence constructions, and after they can write them, it's easier to introduce the language describing the grammatical constructions they are using. (Writing educators like Don Killgallon have written widely and wisely on this approach.) It's not that I believe we should not teach grammar; I'm just convinced there are better methods of teaching grammar than teaching definitions and testing students on them. Teach writing, help students write, and then talk about the structures they're using and the rules they're following. That's naming what they do and helping them to understand from the inside out.
7
This is such an important issue and insightful examination of it. Good, concise, accurate writing is essential on many fields but especially science, research, and policy analysis. My ~50 years of experience shows that junior employees today cannot write correctly or coherently in many cases, but the issues reflect a deeper problem of not being able to think clearly or analyze data or policy issues. What will happen when the senior staff, who were taught to think and write carefully and correctly , and so now do much of the rewriting needed to create accurate and useful documents in both the public and private sectors , retire?! Will the leaders and the public of tomorrow be able to read, learn from, and trust what comes from so many of the "kids who cannot write" today?
5
I am deeply grateful that my teachers taught me grammar, made me diagram sentences, taught me the rules for a dependent clause. I had hoped that every child had the same opportunities. I did not find these subjects dull; they gave me power.
9
I'm sure you attended a Catholic school.
2
Grammar, sentence structure, spelling and vocabulary are all only tools to improve and focus personal expression, oral as well as written. A student's writing should not be thought of as so intensely personal that it cannot ever be addressed or, with some work, improved.
9
Good writing does not happen in the absence of reading.
6
Good writing also requires being able to organize thoughts and tell a story with a beginning, middle, and end.
Lots of kids can't do that today. Much of their learning is passive - from TV and computers.
Ask children to tell you a story. Long before they are able to read or write.
Lots of kids can't do that today. Much of their learning is passive - from TV and computers.
Ask children to tell you a story. Long before they are able to read or write.
5
Of course good writing requires a number of things besides reading. I agree that organizing one's thoughts certainly is one of them, though not evident in your own comment.
But whatever else it requires, good writing does not happen without good reading; a lot of it.
.
But whatever else it requires, good writing does not happen without good reading; a lot of it.
.
2
Writing is an expression of thinking. Jumbled writing equals jumbled thoughts. This argues for two tracks. Both grammar and creativity. Hard to do in today's world. But so essential.
10
Jumbled thoughts, jumbled writing. Hmmm... describes a number of tweets out there...
4
Everyone learns differently. I'm a concrete learner who likes structure and rules. Therefore learning grammar was a delight. But my reading gave me context and expanded my vocabulary and understanding of human nature and so much else. It bothers me that some educators apparently throw the baby out with the bathwater when they try to revise educational methods. The way I learned may not work as well for others. But the way others learned may not have worked for me. A good teacher needs a deep and varied toolbox, not a single new method.
5
I think the thing that most reliably produces good writers is a great deal of good reading. The voice in your head stands a much better chance of getting out if your ears and eyes are full of excellent written expression. Reading a huge diversity of good literature teaches almost subliminally "what works" in good writing. Add in a small amount of technical how-to instruction and (crucially) daily practice in a variety of genres. In my British state elementary school in the 60's our teacher read to the whole class as a reward for good behavior, and our daily writing usually began with reading aloud a good example of the kind of thing we would be asked to produce, and discussing how to do it.
7
Thank you for a very informative and thought provoking article - as displayed by large number of comments that the NYT has chosen to publish.
While there needs to be an emphasis at school on writing, I think many miss the point that education begins only beyond the fence of a school.
To me, education begins at home and continues as you walk to school.
My mother used to drill this into us as she took interest in what we were learning. It is a large credit to her that I graduated from CALTECH and went on to have a successful career.
Writing is also about being curious about things and people.
I am currently living in London - where all museums are free.
Just the other day, at the famous V&A - at a special exhibit on plywood, I observed this woman give out an iPad to her boy - rather than making him listen and watch a short video.
If this parent does not instill a value system in being curious, I doubt this little boy will have an imagination to write well - factually or not.
In London and in UK, I travel by train and public systems. It is very common to have parents allow kids to play iPads rather than make them look around and ask questions.
I admonished a recent American visitor whom I was showing London around, when he constantly picked his iPhone to look for messages etc.
Luckily, he stopped doing it, otherwise that was going to be the end of his guided tour.
Forget writing skills, teach them to be curious and get them interested in learning new.
While there needs to be an emphasis at school on writing, I think many miss the point that education begins only beyond the fence of a school.
To me, education begins at home and continues as you walk to school.
My mother used to drill this into us as she took interest in what we were learning. It is a large credit to her that I graduated from CALTECH and went on to have a successful career.
Writing is also about being curious about things and people.
I am currently living in London - where all museums are free.
Just the other day, at the famous V&A - at a special exhibit on plywood, I observed this woman give out an iPad to her boy - rather than making him listen and watch a short video.
If this parent does not instill a value system in being curious, I doubt this little boy will have an imagination to write well - factually or not.
In London and in UK, I travel by train and public systems. It is very common to have parents allow kids to play iPads rather than make them look around and ask questions.
I admonished a recent American visitor whom I was showing London around, when he constantly picked his iPhone to look for messages etc.
Luckily, he stopped doing it, otherwise that was going to be the end of his guided tour.
Forget writing skills, teach them to be curious and get them interested in learning new.
5
Whom I was showing around London!
Shame on you!
Shame on you!
1
For one to be a writer, they would become a producer of works, words, ideas, and leadership. This is why reading has been historically stressed and taught more than writing, so students can be consumers... Hence, why more teachers enjoy reading and we have an issue with students writing. Because, if the Pen is truly mightier than the sword, the government's tool of academia, is tought to disarm it's citizens...
2
sentence diagramming or reading? Let me try to give my answer with an an analogy from music. I grew up in Germany, where we had a fairly serious music theory curriculum in 6th- 7th grade: the Circle of Fifths, chords and chord inversions... This was great for those of us who already played an instrument-- meaning, mostly those upper-middleclass kids in whose families piano or violin lessons were a thing. For everyone else, inverting chords on paper was a hopelessly abstract, meaningless exercise, because it did not relate to any living experience of music. I'm pretty sure these kids learned nothing of value; they rebelled by misbehaving during music classes, and came away with nothing but contempt for classical music and music instruction. I think sentence diagramming is analogous: if it doesn't come with reading and an appreciation of good writing, it's meaningless. If you can do only one thing, inspiring kids to read widely and joyfully is infinitely more important. For those who already are readers, grammatical analysis of sentences is quite useful, yes. Although (and that's the European in me again) I'm pretty sure kids would be even better served, and would get a better understanding of English, if they studied foreign languages.
10
You have to know the rules in order to break them. This is true in art, music and literature.
12
This is built on a straw man argument that stands in for process theory. James Berlin would not have made "loving writing" a priority. In fact, there are several essays that show he explicitly did not like that. Likewise, the history of college writing is also very wrong in this article.
This article reads like a commercial for the Hochman method. It's little more that propaganda. Near the end, the author reluctantly admits that there should be a synthesis between no nonsense grammar instruction and ... some other method that is poorly described. But given how strongly she comes on, it's doubtful many readers actually took note that her thesis had grown.
If the NY times wants to publish something about writing instruction, why not focus on scholarship devoted to the study of writing and writing instruction. They could start with Berlin. Or any of the thousands of PhDs currently publishing in several journals devoted to the subject.
I expect better research from this publication.
This article reads like a commercial for the Hochman method. It's little more that propaganda. Near the end, the author reluctantly admits that there should be a synthesis between no nonsense grammar instruction and ... some other method that is poorly described. But given how strongly she comes on, it's doubtful many readers actually took note that her thesis had grown.
If the NY times wants to publish something about writing instruction, why not focus on scholarship devoted to the study of writing and writing instruction. They could start with Berlin. Or any of the thousands of PhDs currently publishing in several journals devoted to the subject.
I expect better research from this publication.
4
'“Most teachers are great readers,” Dr. Troia said. “They’ve been successful in college, maybe even graduate school."'
No, they're not great readers. Young teachers are products of an educational system that in the early 1970s began to eschew difficult texts for "adolescent literature." And they weren't particularly successful in school. It's no secret that our new teachers tend to have been mediocre students at best. Too often their "reading" consists of "How to Teach Writing to Your Students" manuals.
New teachers don't always know enough to inspire kids to write. You have to drop your students some pearls and let them pick them up.
And new teachers don't like correcting papers and having their students rewrite them (and then reading the new, improved versions). How many times have older, seasoned teachers been told, "Look, the kids don't read your corrections. Why bother? Besides, the corrections make them feel badly."
[Note: New teachers don't know grammar, either. Back in the 1950s, Kirk Douglas, playing a schoolteacher in "A Letter to Three Wives," says to his wife's grammar-challenged boss -- while flapping his fingers wildly -- "You feel badly like this!" after she makes that all-too-common error. And in those days, the audience would have gotten the joke.]
Besides, televisions, cell phones, Facebook, and whatnot, have robbed kids of time they used to spend reading.
You want to know how to construct a sentence? Read. And read.
That's why kids can't write.
No, they're not great readers. Young teachers are products of an educational system that in the early 1970s began to eschew difficult texts for "adolescent literature." And they weren't particularly successful in school. It's no secret that our new teachers tend to have been mediocre students at best. Too often their "reading" consists of "How to Teach Writing to Your Students" manuals.
New teachers don't always know enough to inspire kids to write. You have to drop your students some pearls and let them pick them up.
And new teachers don't like correcting papers and having their students rewrite them (and then reading the new, improved versions). How many times have older, seasoned teachers been told, "Look, the kids don't read your corrections. Why bother? Besides, the corrections make them feel badly."
[Note: New teachers don't know grammar, either. Back in the 1950s, Kirk Douglas, playing a schoolteacher in "A Letter to Three Wives," says to his wife's grammar-challenged boss -- while flapping his fingers wildly -- "You feel badly like this!" after she makes that all-too-common error. And in those days, the audience would have gotten the joke.]
Besides, televisions, cell phones, Facebook, and whatnot, have robbed kids of time they used to spend reading.
You want to know how to construct a sentence? Read. And read.
That's why kids can't write.
12
Whilst it is fine to keep correcting non-dyslexic children's work, it is very damaging to keep correcting a dyslexic child's written work. You might keep correcting the way they spell words such as does (dose is often used), their/there/they're, or many other words, but they will still spell incorrectly and if all you do is correct everything they do, they will never want to write and feel like complete failures. Many fear writing for this exact reason. When I left my dyslexic sons to write without me constantly correcting them (I didn't know they were dyslexic until they were 16), they wrote some amazing, imaginative work, even though they were very short in length. It is a shame their dyslexia stopped them writing more, as what they did write was always very creative - it still included poor spelling, grammar and punctuation, but the content was more important.
This is an old problem. In the late 1950s, I remember my father, a university professor, complaining about upper-division students who were unable to express themselves clearly on paper.
2
I've been teaching HS English "in the trenches" in NYC for 14 years. I've trained with Dr. Hochman, and I've helped to implement The Writing Revolution in two schools. It's a solid program, although by no means a perfect one. I do agree with Dr. Hochman that understanding sentence structure through writing is about 1/3 of the battle in terms of reading comprehension -- the other two parts being vocabulary and cultural collateral.
I'm a strong teacher of writing in a job where most of my peers, frankly. aren't. Why? Because I teach parts of speech, outlining and sentence structure. I hear lots of concern that I'm stifling creativity. (I also have the kids do a lot of creative writing, for what it's worth.) What I mostly say is that one can't express themselves creatively if they can't put together a cogent sentence. Walk, then run.
We can't tell kids to fix writing errors without giving them the tools. Learning to be a pianist, a mechanic, or a doctor all require discipline. Writing is no different. Everything else is a shortcut that doesn't yield results for most students.
Returning to basics doesn't mean sucking the joy out of the process. I would know. My students laugh a lot. They also work a lot, and learn a lot.
What's my research-based foundation for all this? 14 years in the classroom, that's what.
I'm a strong teacher of writing in a job where most of my peers, frankly. aren't. Why? Because I teach parts of speech, outlining and sentence structure. I hear lots of concern that I'm stifling creativity. (I also have the kids do a lot of creative writing, for what it's worth.) What I mostly say is that one can't express themselves creatively if they can't put together a cogent sentence. Walk, then run.
We can't tell kids to fix writing errors without giving them the tools. Learning to be a pianist, a mechanic, or a doctor all require discipline. Writing is no different. Everything else is a shortcut that doesn't yield results for most students.
Returning to basics doesn't mean sucking the joy out of the process. I would know. My students laugh a lot. They also work a lot, and learn a lot.
What's my research-based foundation for all this? 14 years in the classroom, that's what.
13
I have hired many people over the years. It's quite simple...I learn everything I need to know about the candidate in their cover letter. It is shocking the number of college-educated graduates who cannot write a basic paragraph. Next!!!
3
Depends what type of job they are applying for whether they would be any good for your company. Many dyslexics are extremely intelligent and excel in Maths, Science and creative subjects. Ever heard of dyslexics Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg, Richard Branson, Alexander Graham Bell or Steve Jobs? I was reading an article the other day where the man who invented the World Wide Web, Tim Berners-Lee, was saying how awful his spelling was and how his work colleagues would always comment on it (I assume he is dyslexic too). Don't judge people based upon their written work, as you could lose the opportunity of a very intelligent employee. My own twin dyslexic sons are extremely intelligent (one studied Engineering and the other is doing Architecture). They only need to learn about something technical once and they know every minute detail of it. They amaze me every day with their intellect.
well, ok, but then again I've been reading articles in the paper about how students can't write well for at least fifty years. It gets tiring hearing it Maybe we should just do away with the distinction between their, they're, and there. Then people can stop complaining.
Seabiscute et al:
Or as Joseph Williams might have suggested, "email and texting have contributed to dismissing grammar as unimportant." Or, "when we email or text, we often dismiss grammar as unimportant, and sacrifice good grammar to speed." Was that the idea?
"The dismissal of grammar" doesn't break any prescriptive rules, but this type of nominalization is stylistically mediocre and generally disfavored in English. Worse yet, it is often used to sound smart -- which, in turn, often results in very bad writing that nevertheless gets rewarded.
Or as Joseph Williams might have suggested, "email and texting have contributed to dismissing grammar as unimportant." Or, "when we email or text, we often dismiss grammar as unimportant, and sacrifice good grammar to speed." Was that the idea?
"The dismissal of grammar" doesn't break any prescriptive rules, but this type of nominalization is stylistically mediocre and generally disfavored in English. Worse yet, it is often used to sound smart -- which, in turn, often results in very bad writing that nevertheless gets rewarded.
N. B. Of course the two quoted items above were proposed rewrites of a grammatically correct phrase containing a nominalization that is somewhat vague and, in most cases, stylistically disfavored. Writing can be grammatical but not get its meaning across as well as it should. Usually that is because the chosen form is not the best it could be. Another post talked about revision and more revision; amen to that.
Maybe this writing stuff really does take more work? It certainly took me quite a lot. It is a lifetime endeavor. Orwell's famous essay could be the best place to start.
Maybe this writing stuff really does take more work? It certainly took me quite a lot. It is a lifetime endeavor. Orwell's famous essay could be the best place to start.
I see a lot of misconceptions in the comments, and perhaps a few assumptions in the article that encourage these misconceptions.
First, everyone who speaks a dialect of English comes to school already "knowing" the core grammar of that dialect, though they lack explicit awareness of that knowledge. It is impossible, literally, to speak any language without a tacit knowledge of its core grammar.
Reading and writing are different. Prescriptive grammar is also different from the tacit knowledge every one of us is deploying the moment we speak. There is a good reason for absolutely every sound prescriptive rule, and the reason should be taught. I once tutored a bilingual 7th grader who had trouble with definite and indefinite articles in English, and after I asked him what the difference in meaning was, he figured it out for himself and didn't confuse them any more. He saw for himself why they were important.
Nearly every example of poor writing -- and maybe we could even make this a universal principle -- fails to convey what the writer means, usually by being ambiguous or simply confusing. Diagramming sentences is not likely to improve writing, but analyzing sentences for clarity will, by showing the student that they are not coming across the way they want to.
Style -- Lessons in Clarity and Grace is still one of the best books on writing, but adapting it to youngsters is sure to be a challenge. Much more reading is a must as well. These are lifelong endeavors.
First, everyone who speaks a dialect of English comes to school already "knowing" the core grammar of that dialect, though they lack explicit awareness of that knowledge. It is impossible, literally, to speak any language without a tacit knowledge of its core grammar.
Reading and writing are different. Prescriptive grammar is also different from the tacit knowledge every one of us is deploying the moment we speak. There is a good reason for absolutely every sound prescriptive rule, and the reason should be taught. I once tutored a bilingual 7th grader who had trouble with definite and indefinite articles in English, and after I asked him what the difference in meaning was, he figured it out for himself and didn't confuse them any more. He saw for himself why they were important.
Nearly every example of poor writing -- and maybe we could even make this a universal principle -- fails to convey what the writer means, usually by being ambiguous or simply confusing. Diagramming sentences is not likely to improve writing, but analyzing sentences for clarity will, by showing the student that they are not coming across the way they want to.
Style -- Lessons in Clarity and Grace is still one of the best books on writing, but adapting it to youngsters is sure to be a challenge. Much more reading is a must as well. These are lifelong endeavors.
1
I really do not know where you intended to come down on this.
While I didn't find diagramming a sentence particularly useful, the basic teaching of English and how it should be used, and in what way, took hold and held.
I text, sure.
But classrooms are for educating, not accommodating instruction of proper English for cell phone use.
While I didn't find diagramming a sentence particularly useful, the basic teaching of English and how it should be used, and in what way, took hold and held.
I text, sure.
But classrooms are for educating, not accommodating instruction of proper English for cell phone use.
1
Ah, I see.
Then I suggest you reread what I wrote, and get a copy of Joseph Williams's classic, Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace.
Sorry if that takes longer than reading and categorizing a tweet.
Then I suggest you reread what I wrote, and get a copy of Joseph Williams's classic, Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace.
Sorry if that takes longer than reading and categorizing a tweet.
Either/or is seldom true. Solid instruction will hamper writing the same way solid coaching hampers athletes.
1
I say "ain't" frequently. I use profanity. I often use "don't" where "doesn't" is correct. I scored 770 on the verbal section of the SAT. My opinion is that you're free to break the rules, the way Twain, Wolfe, Faulkner, and Kerouac did, once you know the rules you're breaking. Otherwise, you haven't mastered the language, and you don't deserve to be treated as if you have.
4
Somebody, please, diagram our president's "sentences."
6
What a great writing challenge: Rewrite the president's sentences.
No. It won't stifle their voices. It will give needed structure to their wings so they can fly.
6
From my observation as a student of French, students who lack a basic knowledge of English grammar sentence structure are at a disadvantage when trying to learn a foreign language.
8
Strunk & White anyone?
4
Most overrated book ever. I spent my whole career writing, and there are much better guides available when a question arises.
6
99.9% of us will not be professional writers. But 100% of adults will have to write in some way - work emails, notes to school for our children, Facebook, etc. Adults with poor grammar will be looked at with scorn or not taken seriously (Trump) by most of their peers. Grammar and spelling should come first. Composition second. Process method last. Writers, line great scientists like Einstein will find their own way in spite of education. Most of us just need literacy.
5
"Adults with poor grammar will be looked at with scorn or not taken seriously (Trump) by most of their peers." Well that just shows the ignorance of those people judging them. Dyslexia has no bearing upon intelligence and many dyslexics are extremely intelligent just like dyslexics Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, to name just a few. You may wish to watch this video from Made by Dyslexia. https://www.facebook.com/madebydyslexia/videos/798172910354370/
I expected that my son would grow up being as voracious a reader as everyone else in the family. What I didn't anticipate was the grip that visuals have on him & his peers. There are videos about everything under the sun. Why does the Times and other print media outlets push their videos so hard these days? Because they know very well that younger folks prefer to get their knowledge visually, rather than through words. If there's a YouTube video about the 17th-century Dutch Tulip Bubble, they are going to watch the video rather than read an expensive book about it - a book that they would have to go out of their way to track down and pay for. Why would they do that, when they have a smartphone that provides them with approximately the same type of information for free, via video?
Kids don't write today because there is no compelling reason for them to do so. Many of them can make their own videos, have their own followers, & earn their own income, while writers toil away in obscurity, earning low wages, if they earn anything at all. (I'm not advocating this, just explaining how kids perceive it.)
Why would anyone want to learn to write, when they know that the President of the United States can't write, but has been elected president because he has a huge fortune and was on TV?
Kids want to know how they can get rich and famous; getting rich in this day and age generally involves knowing how to cheat, lie, and bully. Sadly, it doesn't involve writing a good college essay.
Kids don't write today because there is no compelling reason for them to do so. Many of them can make their own videos, have their own followers, & earn their own income, while writers toil away in obscurity, earning low wages, if they earn anything at all. (I'm not advocating this, just explaining how kids perceive it.)
Why would anyone want to learn to write, when they know that the President of the United States can't write, but has been elected president because he has a huge fortune and was on TV?
Kids want to know how they can get rich and famous; getting rich in this day and age generally involves knowing how to cheat, lie, and bully. Sadly, it doesn't involve writing a good college essay.
8
I was waiting for someone to say this. I think you are basically right. The best lack all conviction, while the worst have their pockets filled with lucre overflowing.
By the way, I started rereading James Baldwin before the recent documentary came out. Reading Baldwin's collected nonfiction is a lesson in beautiful writing, and to think he was able to achieve this with only a solid high school education, passion, and a library card. Does anyone aspire to be like he was, or at least to write like he did? Well, some of us do. Still, there's not much money in it.
By the way, I started rereading James Baldwin before the recent documentary came out. Reading Baldwin's collected nonfiction is a lesson in beautiful writing, and to think he was able to achieve this with only a solid high school education, passion, and a library card. Does anyone aspire to be like he was, or at least to write like he did? Well, some of us do. Still, there's not much money in it.
3
The the evidence is in. In order to be successful in life, students need to be able to compose a one-hundred-forty character, not-very-coherent sentence. When will educators get the message?
3
A big part of the problem is that we "pass" everybody without regard for whether they've learned the basics.
8
I am currently revising my syllabus for freshman composition, a required course at the 4-year liberal arts college where I have taught full-time for nearly 20 years. This article could not have been more timely and less helpful.
This article implies an either/or distinction: teach grammar or teach process writing. It then presents two examples of workshops that supposedly illustrate the distinction. This is at best misleading.
Teaching writing and teaching grammar are different but related enterprises. Writing is a means of generating and sharing ideas. Grammar and mechanics are a means of shaping those ideas to make them intelligible to others. Teaching students how to generate ideas using process writing is also quite different from teaching classroom teachers how to design grammar lessons to use in the English classroom. As the name implies, process writing focuses on the idea that writing is a recursive process: we begin with drafts that we then revise with the benefit of questions and comments from readers; once we have the ideas and arguments in place we can edit and proofread.
It is entirely possible to write a 5-page 5-paragraph paper comprised of grammatical but meaningless sentences. The difficulty for teachers at every level is finding the correct balance between helping students to think and helping them to express their thoughts to other.
This article implies an either/or distinction: teach grammar or teach process writing. It then presents two examples of workshops that supposedly illustrate the distinction. This is at best misleading.
Teaching writing and teaching grammar are different but related enterprises. Writing is a means of generating and sharing ideas. Grammar and mechanics are a means of shaping those ideas to make them intelligible to others. Teaching students how to generate ideas using process writing is also quite different from teaching classroom teachers how to design grammar lessons to use in the English classroom. As the name implies, process writing focuses on the idea that writing is a recursive process: we begin with drafts that we then revise with the benefit of questions and comments from readers; once we have the ideas and arguments in place we can edit and proofread.
It is entirely possible to write a 5-page 5-paragraph paper comprised of grammatical but meaningless sentences. The difficulty for teachers at every level is finding the correct balance between helping students to think and helping them to express their thoughts to other.
17
I agree there is a false dichotomy here. Process writing is a mode of instruction, addressing the way instructors structure their time and work with students. Hochman's program, in which I was trained, addresses the focus of instruction, teaching sentence expansion and some outlining methods. It's not comparing apples and oranges; it's comparing apples and cauliflower. Hochman herself radiates creativity with her program, whereas many process writing champions (especially Calkins) manage to make their programs so overly structured that the original aim of fostering creativity and voice becomes elusive.
1
Good writing requres both knowledge of grammar, and inspiration. It needs grammar to provide the commonality of understanding, and it needs inspiration so that it matters.
9
I remember when writing went from learning how to use words effectively and correctly to "expressing oneself." As a 7th grade English teacher I see the result. My students come in barely able to write a coherent sentence. For me it's like starting from scratch. Identifying nouns and verbs. It is very frustrating!
8
Elementary school teachers are not the only ones that can't write. Most college professors can't write, either. And these college professors include those in English and foreign languages.
3
I submit that the solution to the nation's dire problem in educating students from non-English speaking homes is to emulate the thirty year success story of Rafe Equith's Hobart Shakespeareans, which were the model for the KIPP Academy.
These fifth graders, all from poverty level Hispanic and Korean homes in Central Los Angeles, in mastering Shakespearean stage performance, developed self-confidence, superlative work habit and great interpersonal skills. Most gained entrance into competitive colleges.
These kids have graduated from Yale Law, US Military Academy, obtained Masters in Chemical Engineering from Cornell University. A recent valedictorian of her class at Brown University was a Hobart Shakespearean.
Washington Post “America’s best classroom teacher”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR200701...
Appearance at TED Conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnkRvYGnEk
Rafe Esquith Interview on Diane Rehm Show on NPR
https://dianerehm.org/shows/2003-12-29/rafe-esquith-there-are-no-shortcu...
These fifth graders, all from poverty level Hispanic and Korean homes in Central Los Angeles, in mastering Shakespearean stage performance, developed self-confidence, superlative work habit and great interpersonal skills. Most gained entrance into competitive colleges.
These kids have graduated from Yale Law, US Military Academy, obtained Masters in Chemical Engineering from Cornell University. A recent valedictorian of her class at Brown University was a Hobart Shakespearean.
Washington Post “America’s best classroom teacher”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR200701...
Appearance at TED Conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnkRvYGnEk
Rafe Esquith Interview on Diane Rehm Show on NPR
https://dianerehm.org/shows/2003-12-29/rafe-esquith-there-are-no-shortcu...
5
They can't write because they do not read good books. Its facebook and twitter.
Reading the Tales of Genji might be a start. After 1000 years +, the book written by Lady Murasaki is still in print - in three different translations into English.
Reading the Tales of Genji might be a start. After 1000 years +, the book written by Lady Murasaki is still in print - in three different translations into English.
9
The possessive "its" is the form that "never splits." In your comment "its" should read "it's," the contraction for "it is." I literally screamed in pain when I read your otherwise cogent comment, and in reply to an article about good skills in writing, besides.
3
"After 1000 years " is even worse than the incorrect its. "After a millenium" would much better. Also, "Lady Murasaki's book" takes less time to read than "the book written by Lady Murasaki".
Nothing worse that people correcting the spelling, punctuation or grammar of others online. Please read up about dyslexia. It doesn't mean you are more intelligent than a person because you have better spelling, etc, than them. I am sure your spelling, punctuation and grammar was better than dyslexic Albert Einsteins too. My dyslexic sons are extremely intelligent. Take a look at this video from Made by Dyslexia https://www.facebook.com/madebydyslexia/videos/798172910354370/
Want to write? Read.
Want to write? Have something to say that you care about.
But these days, with word-to-text as near as the phone that has become part of your hand, how can these mangled sentences come to pass? Don't these people re-read what they have just written and ask themselves how it sounds? Muddled thinking, lack of purpose..."I wrote 'something' so I'll at least get a 'C'."
Want to write? Have something to say that you care about.
But these days, with word-to-text as near as the phone that has become part of your hand, how can these mangled sentences come to pass? Don't these people re-read what they have just written and ask themselves how it sounds? Muddled thinking, lack of purpose..."I wrote 'something' so I'll at least get a 'C'."
8
Different students have different needs, and approaches to teaching should be adjusted accordingly. Different teachers have different strengths, and the readiness of a student to be reached can be a matter of chance, so students should have a variety of teachers. No one will ever devise THE right approach to teaching any set of skills. That said: the more people read (and listen), the more they will develop an ear for language; as for learning grammar, studying foreign languages can be very helpful. Finally, I'd recommend a return to encouraging students to endure a certain amount of tedium and frustration in order to attain the satisfactions of mastery. There came a point in every semester I taught first year (ancient) Greek when students would be completely worn out and demoralized. Fairly early in my career I responded one day to their frustration with a spontaneous, heartfelt confession: Greek will always be hard, but if I woke up one morning and Greek had suddenly become easy, my life would be diminished. That sincere profession (that's what it really was) was so effective that I incorporated a version of it at the key moment every year thereafter.
17
Beautiful!
1
One of my kids was dyslexic. So labeled, public schools required little of him. After repeating 7th grade, he got a new start in a private school. He had to take a little Greek and a lot of Latin there, and he said he never understood English grammar until he took Latin. Today he writes very well. Very few public schools today offer Latin. There are probably few left who can teach it. It might help to bring it back.
5
Years ago, a colleague of mine in the English Department told me a wonderful story. He had taught at Berkshire Community College in Pittsfield. He had two students, ex-cons, who picked up on his references to Latin (he had studied lots of Latin) and were curious. So, he gave the two an independent study in Latin for a semester or two. He saw them transformed. According to him, it was the sense of control they gained by learning some Latin. Yes, I can do this! I get it! My life is mine to direct! Of course, much more had been going on. Whatever references he had made in his English class to Latin literature sparked their curiosity, and he had conveyed to them that he cared about THEM as much as he loved English or Latin literature. A crazy and complicated thing, teaching is. The skills are important, but the triangle of love (teacher, student, skills/subject) is the key. And the people are who matter in the end.
There are enough left who can teach Latin. Just not enough schools hiring them to teach it.
There are enough left who can teach Latin. Just not enough schools hiring them to teach it.
2
Really? Is there anyone left who subscribes to the idea that "self-expression" and "personal voices" are the pathway to clear, understandable, grammatical writing?
Grammar, punctuation, and correct usage are key to clear, persuasive writing, and MUST precede "self-expression." Imagine how satisfying it is to have your (one hopes) worthwhile, beautiful, profound thoughts understood by your audience because those thoughts are conveyed in coherent language.
Grammar, punctuation, and correct usage are key to clear, persuasive writing, and MUST precede "self-expression." Imagine how satisfying it is to have your (one hopes) worthwhile, beautiful, profound thoughts understood by your audience because those thoughts are conveyed in coherent language.
15
I've noticed that some people are quite sloppy when they text. For example:
"Wat r u doin 4 dinner"
Maybe we should start there...
"Wat r u doin 4 dinner"
Maybe we should start there...
11
I don't understand why this subject appears to be so mysterious. The answer is really quite simple.
Incorporate subjects students like and are interested in and they will want to read and write about them. Bore the student with meaningless content, and they won't want to read and write.
From my own experience, I can say without hesitation that this assertion is absolutely correct. I once attended remedial classes in middle school. All the teachers and all the kings men thought I was dump, but they were sorely mistaken.
I started to read about topics I liked. Soon after I wrote about those topics. And what do you know, I became more proficient at reading and writing than those teachers who were quick to dismiss my capabilities.
It's almost as if educators choose to reinvent the proverbial "wheel" just to make themselves appear more useful and intelligent than they are. As far as I am concerned, there is a lack of intelligence if you happen to think there isn't already a proven method to get kids reading and writing.
Incorporate subjects students like and are interested in and they will want to read and write about them. Bore the student with meaningless content, and they won't want to read and write.
From my own experience, I can say without hesitation that this assertion is absolutely correct. I once attended remedial classes in middle school. All the teachers and all the kings men thought I was dump, but they were sorely mistaken.
I started to read about topics I liked. Soon after I wrote about those topics. And what do you know, I became more proficient at reading and writing than those teachers who were quick to dismiss my capabilities.
It's almost as if educators choose to reinvent the proverbial "wheel" just to make themselves appear more useful and intelligent than they are. As far as I am concerned, there is a lack of intelligence if you happen to think there isn't already a proven method to get kids reading and writing.
3
Wow! Such an interesting article. Such an interesting variety of opinions. I wouldn't have thought that an article about writing would generate so much interest. I've come back to reread the comments several times.
Thanks NYT. I've enjoyed this.
Thanks NYT. I've enjoyed this.
5
After rightly informing readers that grammar instruction does not improve writing proficiency, Goldstein then lauds a method that appears to have no evaluation research on it all all, or at least none listed on their website.
Hall and Smith found in their 1983 study that the positive effects of sentence combining, a key component of the "Hochman Method," began to fade after only one week. This is quite typical of literacy "skills" instruction: the large initial effects fade quickly after instruction ends. Kids go back to writing as they always have.
Hall and Smith found in their 1983 study that the positive effects of sentence combining, a key component of the "Hochman Method," began to fade after only one week. This is quite typical of literacy "skills" instruction: the large initial effects fade quickly after instruction ends. Kids go back to writing as they always have.
3
What, pray tell, is "freewriting"? Yes, I can guess but I shouldn't have to.
And, after reading the Times selected comments, I can agree that they are all generally true.
Certainly the most difficult job that I ever had was as an IT project leader at a Fortune 10 company. I had a dozen college graduates working for me on a project. I parceled out assignments to investigate areas of the project and write a chapter for a design document. I expected to have to do some editing, but I was shocked when paper after paper had issues of basic grammar. Lack of agreement between subject / verb / object in number / gender / tense. Non sequiturs. I was shocked.
True, it's no fun to study grammar, but as one commentator noted, one can't write words if one doesn't know the alphabet.
And, after reading the Times selected comments, I can agree that they are all generally true.
Certainly the most difficult job that I ever had was as an IT project leader at a Fortune 10 company. I had a dozen college graduates working for me on a project. I parceled out assignments to investigate areas of the project and write a chapter for a design document. I expected to have to do some editing, but I was shocked when paper after paper had issues of basic grammar. Lack of agreement between subject / verb / object in number / gender / tense. Non sequiturs. I was shocked.
True, it's no fun to study grammar, but as one commentator noted, one can't write words if one doesn't know the alphabet.
6
Freewriting is usually a timed exercise. The objective is to get the creativity, or ideas flowing. Grammar and punctuation take a temporary backseat. I found it to be quite helpful.
2
IT is one of the many careers that dyslexics excel in, so maybe they were dyslexic. I bet the dyslexic ones spoke with intelligence and came up with some great ideas, as dyslexics are known for their fault finding, creativity and "thinking outside the box". Some famous dyslexics good with IT - Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and inventor of the World Wide Web, Sir Tim Berners-Lee - he has said in numerous interviews that he has awful spelling and his colleagues always comment on how bad it is (I assume he is dyslexic).
There are two issues in writing: first, knowing the rules of grammar and, second, being able to organize thoughts in a coherent sequence. The first is easily teachable but judging by the communications i have received from my child's NYC public elementary and middle schools many teachers themselves do not know basic English grammar. The second, organizing thoughts in a coherent way, is more difficult to teach because that has to do with clarity of thought.
5
Yes, a writer needs something to say that's worth saying, not mindless rambling. 'Clarity of thought' is key and the lack of thought, or even the understanding of the importance of content, undermines writing. Better to have a good discussion and get students fired up to write on a topic rather than just free-write.
1
A few years ago, the New York Times Book Review ended its weekly edition with dueling essays arguing whether it is possible to teach good writing. I am a former attorney and a high school social studies teacher who focuses on teaching writing as part of my curriculum -- so those essays caught my eye. One essayist complained that high school teachers were putting students into writing straitjackets by teaching the classic five paragraph essay. The other noted that a teacher failed to point out that a student’s repetitive use of an adjective was subject to the “law of diminishing returns.”
I keep these essays pinned to my bulletin board for a number of reasons: to remind myself that effective writing is hard and teaching effective writing is even harder; that the classic five paragraph essay is just a means to an end; and that I need to offer constructive feedback on many levels, not merely pointing out the obvious.
Writing is meant to be read and thus writing is for the reader – a focus on teaching the “joy of writing” can lose sight of this important fact. I tell my students that, although YOU know what’s in your brain, the reader has no idea. Good grammar counts, but it is also a means to an end -- effective communication -- and some liberties with it may be taken.
Most students improve during the year. Yet the best writers are inevitably the students who sit in the classroom with a YA novel perched on their desks. They tell me they are reading it for “fun.”
I keep these essays pinned to my bulletin board for a number of reasons: to remind myself that effective writing is hard and teaching effective writing is even harder; that the classic five paragraph essay is just a means to an end; and that I need to offer constructive feedback on many levels, not merely pointing out the obvious.
Writing is meant to be read and thus writing is for the reader – a focus on teaching the “joy of writing” can lose sight of this important fact. I tell my students that, although YOU know what’s in your brain, the reader has no idea. Good grammar counts, but it is also a means to an end -- effective communication -- and some liberties with it may be taken.
Most students improve during the year. Yet the best writers are inevitably the students who sit in the classroom with a YA novel perched on their desks. They tell me they are reading it for “fun.”
5
I was saddened to see, in the "why kids can't right (corrected to 'write')" graphic that the apostrophe for "can't" was missing.
2
Dave, you may have missed the point ...
1
I am learning how to read Egyptian hieroglyph. The lessons all are about grammar and parts of speech. It appears that these fundamentals are essential to writing and to its comprehension. Possibly this approach applies to writing in English as well. Commas, semi colons, periods are a separate set of written language communication, that maybe limited by the reader as well as writers'comprehension of them?
If it can get a generation to stop using lay for lie and objective case pronouns as nominative case words, it will be worth it.
1
"It changed a lot."
This used to be a typical answer on my student's lab reports.
Now my single most important rule for science writing is,
"NO PRONOUNS!"
However I first have provide a list of pronouns, since student almost never remember. When I ask them what to use instead of pronouns - I find that 95+% are stumped. Ha! Now I have a teachable moment. The good news is that this simple concrete rule really works. By the end of the year, the use of nouns (science terms usually) instead or pronouns has become a good habit.
This used to be a typical answer on my student's lab reports.
Now my single most important rule for science writing is,
"NO PRONOUNS!"
However I first have provide a list of pronouns, since student almost never remember. When I ask them what to use instead of pronouns - I find that 95+% are stumped. Ha! Now I have a teachable moment. The good news is that this simple concrete rule really works. By the end of the year, the use of nouns (science terms usually) instead or pronouns has become a good habit.
1
What kind and how many books do these children read? Does "texting" have anything to do with the decline?
2
'Does "texting" have anything to do with the decline?
Probably not, since we've been bemoaning the "decline" for thousands of years already.
Probably not, since we've been bemoaning the "decline" for thousands of years already.
Some schools teach the 5-paragraph essay...in all its vacancy...form, structure...where thinking and meaning have no role whatsoever...I scored teacher certification essays in writing... and saw some of the most deplorable examples of writing I have ever seen...many of which reproduced exactly and correctly the 5-paragraph essay...but which lacked all logic, all intelligence, all thought, all meaning...yet "passed" because they could produce that vacant form....the main requirement of the agency administering the tests...
4
> ... Children in famine, victims tortured by oppressors, helpless old people, a hated burden to their sons, and the whole world of loneliness, poverty, and pain make a mockery of what human life should be. I long to alleviate the evil, but I cannot, and I too suffer.
>This has been my life. I have found it worth living, and gladly would live it again if the chance were offered me.>>
>
If the 5-paragraph theme is not the problem in need of solution, can we please look elsewhere?
>This has been my life. I have found it worth living, and gladly would live it again if the chance were offered me.>>
>
If the 5-paragraph theme is not the problem in need of solution, can we please look elsewhere?
>Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind. These passions, like great winds, have blown me hither and thither, in a wayward course, over a deep ocean of anguish, reaching to the very verge of despair.
>I have sought love, first, because it brings ecstasy--ecstasy so great that I would have sacrificed all the rest of life for a few hours of this joy. I have sought it next because it relieves loneliness--that terrible loneliness in which one shivering consciousness looks over the rim of the world into the cold unfathomable lifeless abyss. I have sought it, finally, because in the union of love I have seen, in a mystic miniature, the prefiguring vision of the heaven that saints and poets have imagined. This is what I have sought, and though it might seem too good for human life, this is what--at last--I have found.
>With equal passion I have sought knowledge. I have wished to understand the hearts of men. I have wished to know why the stars shine. And I have tried to apprehend the Pythagorean power by which number holds sway above the flux. A little of this, but not much, I have achieved.
>Love and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upward toward the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth. Echoes of cries of pain reverberate in my heart....
--Bertrand Russell, Autobiography
GO TO Cassidy NEXT to finish 5-paragraph theme
>I have sought love, first, because it brings ecstasy--ecstasy so great that I would have sacrificed all the rest of life for a few hours of this joy. I have sought it next because it relieves loneliness--that terrible loneliness in which one shivering consciousness looks over the rim of the world into the cold unfathomable lifeless abyss. I have sought it, finally, because in the union of love I have seen, in a mystic miniature, the prefiguring vision of the heaven that saints and poets have imagined. This is what I have sought, and though it might seem too good for human life, this is what--at last--I have found.
>With equal passion I have sought knowledge. I have wished to understand the hearts of men. I have wished to know why the stars shine. And I have tried to apprehend the Pythagorean power by which number holds sway above the flux. A little of this, but not much, I have achieved.
>Love and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upward toward the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth. Echoes of cries of pain reverberate in my heart....
--Bertrand Russell, Autobiography
GO TO Cassidy NEXT to finish 5-paragraph theme
2
English teachers often claim the 5-paragraph theme does not exist in the natural world, but they are wrong. It is everywhere. It is one of the most prevalent and flexible patterns of arrangement in the canons of rhetoric.
What are the three most important components of rhetoric?
Demosthenes answered, "Delivery, delivery, delivery."
Real estate? "Location, location, location."
If you are on the ocean in a canoe with a handful of ship wreck survivors, don't throw away your one paddle because people don't know how to use it right: I know they are swinging it around carelessly and causing no end of trouble with it, but really! Don't toss it overboard.
P.S.: the five canons of rhetoric are invention, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery. In the 19th century, patterns of arrangement were used as invention techniques.
Students, write an essay about X.
Teacher, we don't know anything about X.
Of course you do. What are three steps to making X work; three ways to classify X; compare X to Y; define X; what are the three major components of rhetoric?
Delivery, delivery, delivery.
Don't throw away a perfectly good paddle on your life boat. Teach them how to use it. Teach them how to add density to the bare bones of the most prevalent and flexible heuristics of arrangement available in Western Civilization. Then go on to teach them some of the others available to them.
What are the three most important components of rhetoric?
Demosthenes answered, "Delivery, delivery, delivery."
Real estate? "Location, location, location."
If you are on the ocean in a canoe with a handful of ship wreck survivors, don't throw away your one paddle because people don't know how to use it right: I know they are swinging it around carelessly and causing no end of trouble with it, but really! Don't toss it overboard.
P.S.: the five canons of rhetoric are invention, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery. In the 19th century, patterns of arrangement were used as invention techniques.
Students, write an essay about X.
Teacher, we don't know anything about X.
Of course you do. What are three steps to making X work; three ways to classify X; compare X to Y; define X; what are the three major components of rhetoric?
Delivery, delivery, delivery.
Don't throw away a perfectly good paddle on your life boat. Teach them how to use it. Teach them how to add density to the bare bones of the most prevalent and flexible heuristics of arrangement available in Western Civilization. Then go on to teach them some of the others available to them.
2
Writing is far more than writing - writing is an exercise in planning. It forces you to "make the movie" - envision a sequence of events that are strung together to make a cohesive and contingent whole. As a psychologist I watched for writing as an indicator of the child's ability to envision - to create and then manage ideas in a coherent way. This speaks to far more than a skill taught by instruction - it's the essence of executive functioning. When you see a child who can't write and probe to see if they it's the writing that's the problem or if they can't sequence the ideas themselves, you get a picture of how they run their mind. Attention problems, autism disorders, verbal comprehension deficits and developmental issues are all flagged when writing is poor.
4
These are excellent points and are unfortunately overlooked by many commenters who have no experience in the classroom - other than what they remember when they were students. Intellectual deficits, cognitive disabilities along with emotional, and psychological issues that cause students to struggle with learning cannot be magically overcome through formal instruction or practice in diagramming sentences or the five paragraph essay. Thank you.
1
The one thing that did more to improve my writing was the word processor (I grew up before they came into use). Suddenly I had unlimited flexibility to edit and rework my thoughts. I could get my ideas in words without stumbling over grammar, and then go back and clean up afterwards. But the "clean up" still requires knowledge of the rules.
1
I speak multiple languages with varying fluency beyond the mundane. English is my 3rd language. When I was in 4th grade my english teacher asked me to read out loud a small comprehension on machines. As I was reading I encountered the word machine - which I pronounced it as matchin'. My teacher corrected me along the way, but I never heard her as I was nervous, and I knew I was mispronouncing it and wondered what is this new 'word' :-)!. English was taught as a second language so - there was no sense of shame attached with not knowing.
Success comes out of love and passion. There was that love for listening to and reading story books, even if the understanding was not so great, I went and borrowed books from public library, from friends - just because I enjoyed what children enjoy - getting lost in fiction and the world therein. Parents shuttled the kids to the libraries and that is how it used to be few decades back.
Writing will not be perfect when one starts off at a young age, but if there is some love for reading, and that habit is encouraged, there is no limit to what children can do.
Success comes out of love and passion. There was that love for listening to and reading story books, even if the understanding was not so great, I went and borrowed books from public library, from friends - just because I enjoyed what children enjoy - getting lost in fiction and the world therein. Parents shuttled the kids to the libraries and that is how it used to be few decades back.
Writing will not be perfect when one starts off at a young age, but if there is some love for reading, and that habit is encouraged, there is no limit to what children can do.
4
Writing and reading saturation at the earliest possible time remains the key to becoming proficient in our use of writing language. Elementary teachers core should be in those two areas. Cell phones need to be banned from schools. Computer usage should be cautiously and appropriately administered in elementary school. There is a connection to technology for writing and reading but the old school way comes first...holding books and using paper and pencil.
I have an active teaching license, but I continue to work in retail. I will not work 70 hour work weeks for 40k. The thought of the work by a teacher is beyond honorable; the reality is horrible. Disengaged and demanding parents, disconnected administrators, and disrespectful students remain the constant.
I have an active teaching license, but I continue to work in retail. I will not work 70 hour work weeks for 40k. The thought of the work by a teacher is beyond honorable; the reality is horrible. Disengaged and demanding parents, disconnected administrators, and disrespectful students remain the constant.
5
another way to learn grammar is to learn about language. I hated Latin but it sure have me a solid base. when I learned French I started to understand many of the things I didn't when I learned Latin.
interestingly Latin even helped me to learn Japanese because it taught me to look for structures.
interestingly Latin even helped me to learn Japanese because it taught me to look for structures.
3
Call me the Queen of commas, periods, Subordinate clauses, and all the rest.
I consider myself a decent writer not because I received grammatical instruction. In fact, I received very little. My progressive public NYC elementary school did not believe in it. I don't remember getting grammar lessons in junior high or high school either.
No, my writing skills have come to me through osmosis, a gift from my lifelong love of reading.
I consider myself a decent writer not because I received grammatical instruction. In fact, I received very little. My progressive public NYC elementary school did not believe in it. I don't remember getting grammar lessons in junior high or high school either.
No, my writing skills have come to me through osmosis, a gift from my lifelong love of reading.
2
As a 20 plus year communications professional at major tech corporations, I can attest to two tried and true things when it comes to any writing: Know your audience AND that content is king!
Here's a secret, big money execs send out emails with all kinds of grammar and spelling issues, but no one internally cares! We care about the content and know they were super busy working to make and get the next big thing to market that will raise revenue. If it needs to go public, then people like me wordsmith it. Then the lawyers come in and ruin it, but it's all now grammatically correct just like my Jesuit English professors like. Grrrrrrr.
The best writing is concise. Teach for writing in the real world would far, far better serve students. We can't all be Sylvia Plath or Steinbeck. (Come on! They were freaks of writing nature!!)
PS: I actually like twitter and texting because it forces people to be cogent. I think it would be great fun to try to tell a story just using emoticons.
Here's a secret, big money execs send out emails with all kinds of grammar and spelling issues, but no one internally cares! We care about the content and know they were super busy working to make and get the next big thing to market that will raise revenue. If it needs to go public, then people like me wordsmith it. Then the lawyers come in and ruin it, but it's all now grammatically correct just like my Jesuit English professors like. Grrrrrrr.
The best writing is concise. Teach for writing in the real world would far, far better serve students. We can't all be Sylvia Plath or Steinbeck. (Come on! They were freaks of writing nature!!)
PS: I actually like twitter and texting because it forces people to be cogent. I think it would be great fun to try to tell a story just using emoticons.
2
"Big money execs" might be able to get away with poorly written emails because they make the big money. The average working stiff had better know how to write a coherent business email or cover letter, preferably with proper spelling and grammar, or he will be dismissed out of hand by H.R. People have to know the rules of writing before they can break them. English classes should teach kids how to code switch. What is appropriate in a text is not appropriate in a business setting and vice versa.
6
As a reporter, I am amazed and dismayed by the number of press releases I receive from teachers and administrators that are riddled with spelling and grammatical errors. Students are usually even worse. Before they can find their personal voices, they need to know how to spell, punctuate, and write a complete sentence. I have taught classes as well and I have always docked points for poor writing. I'm grateful to my English teacher mother who took a red pen to my essays when I was eight and corrected my mistakes. My third grade teacher gave me gold stars. My mother actually taught me how to write.
20
My cousin is a graduate-level professor in a health science at a research one university. Her students, if they are successful, will one day write for scholarly publications, so they must learn to organize their thoughts and express them clearly. My cousin takes writing very seriously, and spends an enormous amount of time critiquing student writing so that they may improve. She also grades them, in part, based on their writing. What does she get in return for her efforts? Complaints from parents (of GRADUATE students) and scolding from her dean: "You are not an English professor." In order for good writing to be taught, first it needs to be valued.
14
Your cousin could be a whiz, or her writing could be nearly as bad as that of the students she thinks she's helping. I've seen both. The people telling her she's not an English professor may be trying to, you know, tell her something. In my experience many of the people earnestly soliloquizing on how terrible other peoples' writing is also write poorly, even as they pride themselves on putting the semicolons in the right places.
You can put some of the blame as to why kids can't write on social media. It usurps their cognitive thinking. Why write when you can text. No need to use sentences when you can use abbreviations, acronyms, tweets, pictures, facebook, etc. Communication is a lost art. The cell phone has become a narcotic for kids and has replaced writing.
9
It's not just kids writing poorly because of texting. I have friends who send texts that read like a rebus. Frustrating.( I'm over 40)
3
Children acquire speech without formal instruction, soon becoming fluent speakers of English (or Chinese or Wolof or Hindi--and in many cases fluent speakers of several languages). Their exposure to speech amounts to many thousands of hours by the age of three. We adults take for granted this amazing acquisition of a sound system, a grammar, and a vocabulary that expands at light speed.
Written language springs from the spoken form, but has many unique conventions. Words and phrases that are common in story books are not typically encountered in day to day speech. For example this sentence from Honeybee Man, (a picture book by Lela Nargi & Kyrsten Brooker which I read to my granddaughter recently):
"Fred hauls the buckets down the ladder and into his house, where he banishes Copper the honey-loving dog into the kitchen."
"Hauls" and "banishes" are strong verbs that I would suggest are not likely to come up in casual conversation. The syntax of the sentence is typical of written English, not casual speech. Can anyone doubt the benefits of listening to well crafted dialogue and description day in and day out for years before even starting school?
Reading aloud to young children--a lot!--provides exposure to the conventions of written language just as exposure to speech provides the raw material for speech acquisition. If we want children to be fluent writers, soak them in children's books for 4-5 years before they start school.
Written language springs from the spoken form, but has many unique conventions. Words and phrases that are common in story books are not typically encountered in day to day speech. For example this sentence from Honeybee Man, (a picture book by Lela Nargi & Kyrsten Brooker which I read to my granddaughter recently):
"Fred hauls the buckets down the ladder and into his house, where he banishes Copper the honey-loving dog into the kitchen."
"Hauls" and "banishes" are strong verbs that I would suggest are not likely to come up in casual conversation. The syntax of the sentence is typical of written English, not casual speech. Can anyone doubt the benefits of listening to well crafted dialogue and description day in and day out for years before even starting school?
Reading aloud to young children--a lot!--provides exposure to the conventions of written language just as exposure to speech provides the raw material for speech acquisition. If we want children to be fluent writers, soak them in children's books for 4-5 years before they start school.
12
Thank you!
Von Steuben High School, Chicago, 1950's. A lifetime of writing learned in four years.
2
No one can learn their own voice unless taught. If you want your children to just have their own voice, they will never say anything but goo goo ga ga.
Any language must be taught. Your first language takes years. First just by listening. Then in school. You must learn to spell (ya nasty business for American English because we have stolen so many words from other languages, & they all follow different rules which most members of the base hate, i.e. Rules). Students who do not learn to read to grade level, do math to grade level, learn all other subjects to grade level, learn to print first then write to grade level & compose paragraphs to graded level should be held back, if the next year they do not pass they should be dropped back at least 2 years. After 12 years, with no brain defect found (lazy, don't care, etc) they should be thrown out without a diploma & file labeled, UNEMPLOYABLE, suitable only for manual labor. For then it is the parents fault. Also no voting rights. 2nd class citizenship. No breeding rights. We will always need bums to do the dirty, hard, deadly work. They will be perfect.
Any language must be taught. Your first language takes years. First just by listening. Then in school. You must learn to spell (ya nasty business for American English because we have stolen so many words from other languages, & they all follow different rules which most members of the base hate, i.e. Rules). Students who do not learn to read to grade level, do math to grade level, learn all other subjects to grade level, learn to print first then write to grade level & compose paragraphs to graded level should be held back, if the next year they do not pass they should be dropped back at least 2 years. After 12 years, with no brain defect found (lazy, don't care, etc) they should be thrown out without a diploma & file labeled, UNEMPLOYABLE, suitable only for manual labor. For then it is the parents fault. Also no voting rights. 2nd class citizenship. No breeding rights. We will always need bums to do the dirty, hard, deadly work. They will be perfect.
Politics overtook the classrooms of my daughter's high school English department. She does well in the subject, was in honors English classes for three years and stepped aside from the AP English class her senior year because she couldn't stomach another year of political views disguised as "English." She wrote very little in four years. She read the Tao of Poo in one class. For weeks.
4
Thanks to governor Scott Walker and his secret donor regime.
2
I doubt this had anything to do with our governor.
Say what you will about diagramming sentences, but those of us who learned grammar through this methodology can write.
13
I hated diagramming sentences with a passion. I've always been an intuitive writer. I have read so many books that I just know what looks right. I promptly forgot the rules I memorized when I studied grammar. On the other hand, I am probably a better writer because a junior high teacher did force me to diagram a sentence and think consciously about how it should be structured.
12
Some rules of writing:
1. Please take the role of the reader. Is it clear? Can the reader understand it?
2. Please avoid colloquial language.
1. Please take the role of the reader. Is it clear? Can the reader understand it?
2. Please avoid colloquial language.
2
Covfefe.
15
Well stated :)
1
My interest in English grammar was crushed by a poor freshman composition professor. So, I still can't diagram a sentence… Can't tell the difference between an adverb and a participle. Hell, I couldn't define either one.
But I do hold a PhD, have been teaching college for 30 years, and have published many scholarly articles, book chapters, etc. Why can I write reasonably well without fully understanding the rules of grammar? Simple: my parents always had good books around the house and I was encouraged to read them. I know what good writing with looks like.
But I do hold a PhD, have been teaching college for 30 years, and have published many scholarly articles, book chapters, etc. Why can I write reasonably well without fully understanding the rules of grammar? Simple: my parents always had good books around the house and I was encouraged to read them. I know what good writing with looks like.
12
We commonly learn grammar in grammar school. Why defer this subject to college and blame a professor?
2
I went to school from 1960-1972. We learned to spell and took spelling tests. We learned to write and diagrammed sentences. We read lots of books and wrote lots of book reports, and in high school, those book reports had to have footnotes and references in perfect format. We read and interpreted poetry and wrote creatively, and we weren't any smarter or privileged than kids are now. The difference? We didn't have cell phones, Twitter, Facebook or computers, teachers didn't have to teach to the lowest common denominator and nobody got a prize just for showing up.
15
Maybe you're right. However, in the article it was documented that a Harvard freshman class failed composition in the the 19th century.
1
I do not know how to fix this problem, because the pipeline is broken. I have taught college in a writing-intensive discipline and also worked closely with secondary school teachers as an in-school tutor.
Teaching at university, I had many intelligent, hard-working students who were nevertheless functionally illiterate. They were capable of learning, but they had graduated from school systems where grammar was not taught - or worse, was taught so badly that their education was almost worse than none at all.
Remediating fifth-grade grammar is beyond what a college can or should do. The problem is so widespread that colleges simply dumb down curriculum, inflate grades, and pass these students along to keep tuition dollars coming in.
These passed-along students graduate, scarcely more literate than when they arrived, and many go on to teach primary and secondary school.
As a tutor, working closely with middle-school teachers, I realized that they could no more teach grammar and sentence structure than I could teach Farsi, being utterly ignorant of it themselves.
Even if we want to raise a generation of kids who can read and write, who will teach them?
Teaching at university, I had many intelligent, hard-working students who were nevertheless functionally illiterate. They were capable of learning, but they had graduated from school systems where grammar was not taught - or worse, was taught so badly that their education was almost worse than none at all.
Remediating fifth-grade grammar is beyond what a college can or should do. The problem is so widespread that colleges simply dumb down curriculum, inflate grades, and pass these students along to keep tuition dollars coming in.
These passed-along students graduate, scarcely more literate than when they arrived, and many go on to teach primary and secondary school.
As a tutor, working closely with middle-school teachers, I realized that they could no more teach grammar and sentence structure than I could teach Farsi, being utterly ignorant of it themselves.
Even if we want to raise a generation of kids who can read and write, who will teach them?
14
As I learned when doing a Masters degree in the teaching of writing:
If you do not read, you cannot write. This article has many good points, but the crucial connection to the lack of real reading experience of the modern student is not mentioned.
One learns the rhythm of sentences by reading them. Of course, classroom reading aloud with coaching for sensing the punctuation ( pause, voice down before a period) makes painstaking exercises on guessing what punctuation does) a supplement, not a disconnected fill in the blank.
Giving students the experience of choosing their own writing topics, and the deciding on the appropriate length for them is the gold standard for learning to write, for achieving ownership, and for motivation. Peer reading, even editing at the end of the process helps greatly.
But reading, and for that matter writing, must be encouraged from the start of K. Literature courses must demand reading of novels and long books.
Have we been cheating students by giving them exercises instead of exercise? Exercise reading and writing must have its centrality, and not just in Lit class.
If you do not read, you cannot write. This article has many good points, but the crucial connection to the lack of real reading experience of the modern student is not mentioned.
One learns the rhythm of sentences by reading them. Of course, classroom reading aloud with coaching for sensing the punctuation ( pause, voice down before a period) makes painstaking exercises on guessing what punctuation does) a supplement, not a disconnected fill in the blank.
Giving students the experience of choosing their own writing topics, and the deciding on the appropriate length for them is the gold standard for learning to write, for achieving ownership, and for motivation. Peer reading, even editing at the end of the process helps greatly.
But reading, and for that matter writing, must be encouraged from the start of K. Literature courses must demand reading of novels and long books.
Have we been cheating students by giving them exercises instead of exercise? Exercise reading and writing must have its centrality, and not just in Lit class.
14
Finally, someone has hit the proverbial nail on the head! I wonder just how many studies into this issue have looked at the correlation between poor writing skills and poor reading skills. If kids can't read well, they will never learn to write well.
3
After teaching writing to students of all ages and from all backgrounds for many years, I can safely say that the biggest problem is the confusion among teachers and other educators between writing and editing. The only two rules for writing are 1. Get the words down and 2. Fix them.
Writing and editing are two different processes that require different thinking and skills. By interrupting the creative process to critique and correct is not going to help any student learn to fix the words.
Pedants hate to allow the creativity and put their red pencils away while it happens. After it happens, young and old writers are much more interested in fixing the words and learn to do it with skill.
Writing and editing are two different processes that require different thinking and skills. By interrupting the creative process to critique and correct is not going to help any student learn to fix the words.
Pedants hate to allow the creativity and put their red pencils away while it happens. After it happens, young and old writers are much more interested in fixing the words and learn to do it with skill.
7
I think this gets to the crux of the writing issue. It's important to get something down on paper to start the process. More importantly though the writer needs to have editing skills. As such rereading what has been written is essential to the process.
Only by doing this can the writer ensure that ideas and events build on each other, that sentences are clearly structured, and that grammar appropriately supports the thoughts they are trying to convey.
This applies whether you are writing a business email to make the case for a course of action or you are writing the next masterpiece novel. Whatever you are writing you have to put yourself in the position of the reader to edit for meaning, structure and impact.
Unfortunately we don't spend much time teaching students to understand other people's perspectives which is a key aspect of self-editing and many other life skills - the Id is strong in the this generation! (though I suspect my parents thought the same).
Only by doing this can the writer ensure that ideas and events build on each other, that sentences are clearly structured, and that grammar appropriately supports the thoughts they are trying to convey.
This applies whether you are writing a business email to make the case for a course of action or you are writing the next masterpiece novel. Whatever you are writing you have to put yourself in the position of the reader to edit for meaning, structure and impact.
Unfortunately we don't spend much time teaching students to understand other people's perspectives which is a key aspect of self-editing and many other life skills - the Id is strong in the this generation! (though I suspect my parents thought the same).
2
As a language and literature teacher for twenty five years, it's my professional responsibility to keep up with current research in my field. The research that's been done on teaching grammar out of context is clear: it does not help a student write with more accuracy or clarity. See https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/grammar-spelling-errors/? for an overview and what to do instead.
My own experiences have also told me this. Parsing sentences and filling out worksheets has little effect on writing. Lucy Caulkins' fine work at Columbia Teachers College developing both reading and writing workshop approaches is the best place for a new teacher to start. Those who see workshop pedagogy as for 'lazy' teachers don't understand what it entails.
My own experiences have also told me this. Parsing sentences and filling out worksheets has little effect on writing. Lucy Caulkins' fine work at Columbia Teachers College developing both reading and writing workshop approaches is the best place for a new teacher to start. Those who see workshop pedagogy as for 'lazy' teachers don't understand what it entails.
8
This "article" sets up a false binary between "voice" and "correctness." This is not a dichotomy. Writing is about both form and content, and good writing instruction takes all of this into account. There is not, in fact, a dearth of good research on writing. Those of us in Rhetoric and Composition have decades of research, and professional organizations such as the Conference on College Composition and Communication and the Council of Writing Program Administrators that collect and support this research. We would also be happy to talk with you about the research and its findings. In addition, it would be helpful for you to note the larger work of the National Writing Project, which has been going on since the 1970s and doing truly phenomenal work with teachers in underserved areas. This article sounds more like an ad for Judith Hochman's workshop than an effort to dig into the research and talk with experts about what we really know about effective writing instruction.
6
We'll, I'm a fan of Dr. Hochman. I've taught writing for years and after dismal results, I took my students on journey through the basics of grammar and sentence crafting. I told them our classes and assignments would not always be fun and they might only feel the results of their hardwork later. When they asked why they needed to perfect grammar and punctuation, I told them it's because they will have a a hard time getting a job if they can't write a coherent cover letter. The vast majority of my students will never be poets or novelists. They don't need to find their voice. They don't need to ever love writing, but they do need to be competent writers. If I've done my job, they will know where the commas go and when to capitalize a letter and will thus significantly increase their chances of being called in for an interview. If all we care about is creativity and gorgeous sentences, even if full of mistakes, we teachers have failed our students. Learning to write is hard work. Most things in life worth doing are hard work. The sooner the kids learn this the better.
16
This. I mean, by all means provide opportunities for students to learn creative writing techniques, as some people will need to be writers and poets, but everyone will need to be able to write (and read) their applications and cover letters and performance reviews.
Encouraging students to find their own voice is great, in theory. To do it only so they can submit a college application essay or whatever is teaching to the test in the worst way. Every 18-year-old who has an "own voice" already is going to be a writer anyway. Let the others learn to write in a comprehensible if sometimes boring manner.
And make them READ for pity's sake.
Encouraging students to find their own voice is great, in theory. To do it only so they can submit a college application essay or whatever is teaching to the test in the worst way. Every 18-year-old who has an "own voice" already is going to be a writer anyway. Let the others learn to write in a comprehensible if sometimes boring manner.
And make them READ for pity's sake.
2
As someone who has received awards for writing fiction and non-fiction, and as someone who switched careers and became a teacher, I have the following to suggest: teach grammar. Teach grammar in a required foreign language class, as well. I studied Spanish, French, and Latin in high school. I expressed myself in Creative Writing class and I learned classic literature. I learned to make connections between two pieces of literature; I analyzed books. I diagrammed sentences. As a teacher, I taught ESL second-graders the Lucy Calkins method - Reading and Writing Workshop. It's wonderful for the lower grades, but grammar is a must. We need a combination of the two systems. There are exciting ways to introduce grammar so it doesn't hark back to "drill and kill." Knowing sentence structure, and having the ability to decline nouns and conjugate verbs offers a mastery of expression. Remember the subjunctive mood? How about the conditional tense?
7
The research shows that grammar in your native language is learned by about fifth grade.
Second language teaching is not the same, and yes, if the student already has the language for the meta-language of grammar, it can be harnessed. But it is a distraction and a waste of time. Yes, some time has to be spent on " usage rules", but parsing ? Forget it.
Second language teaching is not the same, and yes, if the student already has the language for the meta-language of grammar, it can be harnessed. But it is a distraction and a waste of time. Yes, some time has to be spent on " usage rules", but parsing ? Forget it.
3
Many of the comments here illustrate why teachers and students loathe grammar. The pedantic obsession with correct usage, contractions, and other common errors that don't substantially interfere with thought or meaning drives away proficient but imperfect users of language. Ain’t nobody ever been confused by a double negative. Split infinitives, ending sentences with a preposition, omitting the oxford comma: all of these grammatical topics are important. But they have been used as bludgeons to punish rather than tools to inspire. As a teacher of many years, and now as a coach who visits many classrooms I see that few teachers are able to share grammatical rules and concepts in a way that empowers students to improve their writing. Other teachers, the majority I’m afraid, are uncertain of the rules themselves and deliver them with punitive force and hostility that is directed at the students and the rules themselves. Lisa Delpit’s work illustrates how well-intentioned liberal educators often deprive their brown students of solid knowledge due to phony ideas about progressive pedagogy. Such practice is unacceptable. But the fact remains that the preponderance of grammar instruction I’ve seen is mean spirited, not culturally responsive, and is shot like at arrow intend to wound. And I ain’t talking about Cupid’s dart.
26
Strunk and White addressed a lot of these points decades ago in The Elements of Style.
There are often multiple grammatically correct ways to construct a sentence, including some that violate certain pedagogical "rules". Good sentence design, like any good design, is a case of form following function. The best "style" is the sentence that is most effective at conveying the meaning of the sentence. For example, there are many cases where putting a preposition at the end of the sentence is the most effective style, so go ahead and form the sentence that way: Elements of Style, Fourth Edition, page 73 and 74).
Of course there are also times when comprehension requires pretty strict adherence to grammatical rules, particularly around punctuation. Having crafted many business contracts, I can tell you, proper punctuation is not just your friend, it is essential to the exact meaning of terms (and their legal effectiveness!).
There are often multiple grammatically correct ways to construct a sentence, including some that violate certain pedagogical "rules". Good sentence design, like any good design, is a case of form following function. The best "style" is the sentence that is most effective at conveying the meaning of the sentence. For example, there are many cases where putting a preposition at the end of the sentence is the most effective style, so go ahead and form the sentence that way: Elements of Style, Fourth Edition, page 73 and 74).
Of course there are also times when comprehension requires pretty strict adherence to grammatical rules, particularly around punctuation. Having crafted many business contracts, I can tell you, proper punctuation is not just your friend, it is essential to the exact meaning of terms (and their legal effectiveness!).
1
Thank you, yes. Reading comments on this type of article is always a horror, a dreadful mishmash of self-righteousness, misinformation, and ignorance. I could write them all myself at this point. "Students today are far worse than 20 years ago." "Misuse of semicolons is rampant. Western civilization is in decline!" "Grammar gives meaning to language." "The trouble started with cellphones/ TV/ Facebook ..." "Back in my day ..."
2
"I see that few teachers are able to share grammatical rules and concepts in a way that empowers students to improve their writing."
That's because teachers don't really know grammar and therefore can't make it fun for their students.
When you make grammar a playful thing, the kids understand, remember, and appreciate it.
That's because teachers don't really know grammar and therefore can't make it fun for their students.
When you make grammar a playful thing, the kids understand, remember, and appreciate it.
"There is a notable shortage of high-quality research on the teaching of writing, but studies that do exist point toward a few concrete strategies that help students perform better on writing tests. "
What? Is the author not aware that there is an entire field of study in which people earn PhDs doing high quality research about the teaching of writing?
Tests are not a reliable tool for assessing writing ability. Any "method" claiming to do so is simply getting lucky or distorting its findings. Writing is among the most complex cognitive tasks we do; there is no one way to teach it correctly, but there are bad ways, some of which are promoted in this article.
What? Is the author not aware that there is an entire field of study in which people earn PhDs doing high quality research about the teaching of writing?
Tests are not a reliable tool for assessing writing ability. Any "method" claiming to do so is simply getting lucky or distorting its findings. Writing is among the most complex cognitive tasks we do; there is no one way to teach it correctly, but there are bad ways, some of which are promoted in this article.
4
The National Writing Project DOES synthesize the two methods. Free writing and journaling are supplemented by mini-lessons and personalized tutorials to provide students with the grammar, punctuation and syntactic skills they indicate they need. In addition, had the writer of the article done sufficient research, she would have found that all of the methods used in the NWP program are research-based.
Teaching grammar does NOT improve student writing (London study, New Zealand study). Most "grammar" errors are caused by dialect--regional, ethnic, etc. In fact, we are all born with the ability to acquire grammar or at least we are wired for it (Chomsky).
I attended a lab school and never learned the names for types of clauses or to diagram a sentence but I've published in The New Republic, etc., and written 5 textbooks.
Carolyn Boiarsky, Ph.D.'
Director, Northwest Indiana Writing Project
Purdue University Northwest
Hammond, IN
[email protected]
Teaching grammar does NOT improve student writing (London study, New Zealand study). Most "grammar" errors are caused by dialect--regional, ethnic, etc. In fact, we are all born with the ability to acquire grammar or at least we are wired for it (Chomsky).
I attended a lab school and never learned the names for types of clauses or to diagram a sentence but I've published in The New Republic, etc., and written 5 textbooks.
Carolyn Boiarsky, Ph.D.'
Director, Northwest Indiana Writing Project
Purdue University Northwest
Hammond, IN
[email protected]
2
This article gathers interesting perspectives on writing instruction and makes a reasonable argument for a synthesis of structured and open-ended approaches. But Goldstein is too quickly dismissive of explicit and sustained grammar instruction, which, if conducted properly, not only interests the student but opens up insights into language and literature. There is no reason why sentence parsing has to be dull.
For several years I have been studying Hebrew cantillation, the art of chanting the Hebrew text. The system of trope (melodic phrases) is logogenic--that is, tied to the words, their grammar, and their syntax. Learning the trope goes hand in hand with parsing the verses grammatically and coming to understand them. Many times, during study, I have noticed a verb form, a preposition, or an unusual accent--which then opened up my interpretation of the verse and passage.
Something analogous takes place with any language. The "mechanics" have beauty, especially when you know how and why they work. Not only that, but they lead to insight. When teaching philosophy to high school students, and working with difficult authors such as Mill, I would often select a sentence for parsing. When the students could see the main and dependent clauses, they could also grasp what Mill was saying. But to do this, one must pend time with the grammatical concepts--which can stimulate the imagination by revealing structures of thought.
For several years I have been studying Hebrew cantillation, the art of chanting the Hebrew text. The system of trope (melodic phrases) is logogenic--that is, tied to the words, their grammar, and their syntax. Learning the trope goes hand in hand with parsing the verses grammatically and coming to understand them. Many times, during study, I have noticed a verb form, a preposition, or an unusual accent--which then opened up my interpretation of the verse and passage.
Something analogous takes place with any language. The "mechanics" have beauty, especially when you know how and why they work. Not only that, but they lead to insight. When teaching philosophy to high school students, and working with difficult authors such as Mill, I would often select a sentence for parsing. When the students could see the main and dependent clauses, they could also grasp what Mill was saying. But to do this, one must pend time with the grammatical concepts--which can stimulate the imagination by revealing structures of thought.
6
While I do love grammar and believe that my knowledge of it allows me to better craft writing that says what I mean for it to, I don't like absolute positions. Consider the utterly moving words of a developing writer as rendered by a masterful one, in Alice Walker's The Color Purple, or the real developing writer I met while teaching composition at a medium security prison many years ago whose lacerating, nearly 30 page run-on sentence described the stupidity that had led him to take the life of a friend, thus ending both lives as the two men knew them and condemning himself to examine, every day, both the life he took, as well as life he'd made for himself. I'll never forget the raw power of that writer. I did my job, as all writing teachers should, but I don't really believe I made his writing even stronger by showing him where the commas went.
9
It's ironic and disconcerting that so many commenters on NYT articles do not check their submissions for spelling and syntax. The same applies, increasingly, to the writers and editors in the New York Times. I am very disappointed to see this. It only takes a minute and often makes the difference between gibberish and sense.
7
As an early elementary teacher of fifteen years, I have seen first-hand the frustrations associated with teaching writing. I do not think the answer is an either/or approach (grammar/worksheet driven instruction vs. workshop/student-centered instruction). What makes sense is a combination of the two, keeping in mind that a "student-centered" approach does not have to mean the student only writes about him/her-self.
When you have 30+ children in a classroom--from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, and many whose first language is not English (this is not uncommon all over the US)--it is very difficult to teach anyone how to do anything well. The teaching of writing is a complex task--one that combines the study of grammar/mechanics along with helping young learners cultivate their own voices and identities as writers.
For those of you begging us elementary teachers to go back to teaching how to diagram sentences---you all are missing the much bigger picture of all of this.
Support public educational efforts that do things like reduce class sizes, professionally develop teachers in affirming and helpful ways, and support the adequate funding of (public) teacher-educator programs. And not to mention... be skeptical of programs like Teach for America and other fast-track-to-teaching-licensure programs (folks in these programs take courses at night during their first year of being thrown into "difficult" classrooms without adequate training/support).
When you have 30+ children in a classroom--from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, and many whose first language is not English (this is not uncommon all over the US)--it is very difficult to teach anyone how to do anything well. The teaching of writing is a complex task--one that combines the study of grammar/mechanics along with helping young learners cultivate their own voices and identities as writers.
For those of you begging us elementary teachers to go back to teaching how to diagram sentences---you all are missing the much bigger picture of all of this.
Support public educational efforts that do things like reduce class sizes, professionally develop teachers in affirming and helpful ways, and support the adequate funding of (public) teacher-educator programs. And not to mention... be skeptical of programs like Teach for America and other fast-track-to-teaching-licensure programs (folks in these programs take courses at night during their first year of being thrown into "difficult" classrooms without adequate training/support).
10
The musical scale consists of a couple of notes, and I don't hear musicians complaining that it's stifling their individual voices.
6
Why write well when an anti intellectual pogrom could be coming to a theater near you?
I may be over dramatizing a bit, but I'm not real far off here.
The grand old phonies have set the bar well below absolute zero.
I may be over dramatizing a bit, but I'm not real far off here.
The grand old phonies have set the bar well below absolute zero.
2
We must resist.
1
I am a retired elementary school teacher who later served as a mentor, curriculum supporter, and finally union president in a large Maryland school system. During the 80s and 90s our teachers were subject to massive periodic changes in the instruction of writing depending upon who was currently the instruction and curriculum leader for Language Arts. We did a tremendous disservice to our students when we deemphasized what one consider to be the basics of writing and sentence structure and grammar in the early grades in favor of allowing young students to find their creative voices. As we embraced what we called Integrated Language arts we expected teachers to individually apply instruction in the Nitty Gritty of how to write throughout the curriculum. Voluminous binders of outcomes and objectives were handed to teachers with inadequate professional development with the expectation that the flavor of the day was to be implemented immediately. There was no consideration or cooperation among the gurus across the various curricula nor even an assessment of whether all that was expected could be carried out and achieved within the 180 day school year. We had fifth graders who were expected to write stories, explanations, reactions, essays, reflections etc who could not explain what a sentence is.
I can only imagine what it is like now.
I can only imagine what it is like now.
5
Funny how we have to be immensely brief here in the comments section as well as on most online venues. Twitter gives you only 144 characters. Yet we want full, lush writing from kids?
I understand the need to have a certain level of proficiency with the language in order to break its rules. But there is something inherently dishonest about asking kids to write prose with immaculate grammar when most adults do not
even attempt to try. Nor do they need to in their everyday lives.
Very few have the talent to communicate effectively AND efficiently with interest. It's not a skill to learn but a talent.
Professionals have editors while the rest of us try to sound semi-literate and use grammarly.
I understand the need to have a certain level of proficiency with the language in order to break its rules. But there is something inherently dishonest about asking kids to write prose with immaculate grammar when most adults do not
even attempt to try. Nor do they need to in their everyday lives.
Very few have the talent to communicate effectively AND efficiently with interest. It's not a skill to learn but a talent.
Professionals have editors while the rest of us try to sound semi-literate and use grammarly.
2
Good points all, but a return to basic traditional ,almost back to the Greeks, would do wonders for writing, thinking,and building character.
2
Goldstein started to tackle the topic of implementing new standards for writing, then got sidetracked on "process" vs. "grammar" approaches. Her descriptions of the methods got a little garbled as well. As I explain in this post, the real issue is how to support implementation of writing instruction that has, for decades, been proven to work: http://ksmwritingtutor.com/new-york-times-today-why-kids-cant-write/
3
Why (American) kids can't write (well)?: A summary
They don't read (enough)
They don't write (enough)
They don't like to write
They can't speak clearly
They don't proofread their writing
They don't edit/revise their writing
Grammar/sentence diagramming is not taught
Too much personal, feel good, free-writing
Common Core standards and over-testing
Teachers can't write either
Teachers don't teach writing (properly)
Grade inflation
Too much texting; too much tech
Cultural acceptance of poor writing
Effective, grammatically correct writing requires a technically complex skill set derived from formal education and a lifetime of proper language acquisition. Innate intelligence and personality type must be factored in as well. These factors will always limit the number of 'good writers'.
Like playing the piano or hitting a baseball - writing well is just a very difficult skill that the majority of kids (people) cannot or are not willing to master.
They don't read (enough)
They don't write (enough)
They don't like to write
They can't speak clearly
They don't proofread their writing
They don't edit/revise their writing
Grammar/sentence diagramming is not taught
Too much personal, feel good, free-writing
Common Core standards and over-testing
Teachers can't write either
Teachers don't teach writing (properly)
Grade inflation
Too much texting; too much tech
Cultural acceptance of poor writing
Effective, grammatically correct writing requires a technically complex skill set derived from formal education and a lifetime of proper language acquisition. Innate intelligence and personality type must be factored in as well. These factors will always limit the number of 'good writers'.
Like playing the piano or hitting a baseball - writing well is just a very difficult skill that the majority of kids (people) cannot or are not willing to master.
15
Common Core is very important. Every student in every school, public or private should pass certain standards every year or not move on. Two years of failure, be bounced back 2 years. After 12 if they cannot pass all 12th year exams they do not graduate, are thrown out as not able to be educated & marked for manual labor. The dirty, hard, dangerous kind. Also marked not allowed to breed. This kind of labor is always needed.
All schools should have a summer term where students may try to catch up & move on with their class. Failure then will trigger the bounce back another grade as if it was the 2nd time.
Children with actual mental defects will be moved along in special classes as fast & far as they can be, if they can't graduate, then sheltered workshops & such for their adulthood should be available. But not for those who are just lazy.
I hated sentence diagramming. But, it has proved useful. Don't have to actually write down a diagram. Just listen to a sentence in my head & if it sounds awkward, try different ways until it sounds right.
Times tables still should be memorized. Now when using a calculator, if an answer looks wrong (doesn't fit with my memory for multiplication) I can fix it. If you only ever use calculators & consider them infallible (they may be, but people inputting data are not) will always be cheated. Everyone must keep their mind open. But first it must have all necessary data inputted. That's school. Plus proofread, proofread, proofread. Always
All schools should have a summer term where students may try to catch up & move on with their class. Failure then will trigger the bounce back another grade as if it was the 2nd time.
Children with actual mental defects will be moved along in special classes as fast & far as they can be, if they can't graduate, then sheltered workshops & such for their adulthood should be available. But not for those who are just lazy.
I hated sentence diagramming. But, it has proved useful. Don't have to actually write down a diagram. Just listen to a sentence in my head & if it sounds awkward, try different ways until it sounds right.
Times tables still should be memorized. Now when using a calculator, if an answer looks wrong (doesn't fit with my memory for multiplication) I can fix it. If you only ever use calculators & consider them infallible (they may be, but people inputting data are not) will always be cheated. Everyone must keep their mind open. But first it must have all necessary data inputted. That's school. Plus proofread, proofread, proofread. Always
2
Common Core ELA standards exclude sentence diagramming; and you would be hard pressed to find parts of speech, usage, and syntax included as well.
Common Core math discourages the memorization of the times table in favor of "deeper understanding" (See arrays, etc.)
Your very harsh outlook on promotion and graduation requirements is both legally and logistically unworkable - and reveals a very ignorant view of brain development.
Would you really be in favor of 16 year olds in 6th grade?
Are there no prisons?
Plenty of prisons..."
And the Union workhouses." demanded Wolfie,
Are they still in operation?"
Both very busy, sir...
Those who are badly off must go there.
Many can't go there; and many would rather die.
If they would rather die, said Wolfie, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
Common Core math discourages the memorization of the times table in favor of "deeper understanding" (See arrays, etc.)
Your very harsh outlook on promotion and graduation requirements is both legally and logistically unworkable - and reveals a very ignorant view of brain development.
Would you really be in favor of 16 year olds in 6th grade?
Are there no prisons?
Plenty of prisons..."
And the Union workhouses." demanded Wolfie,
Are they still in operation?"
Both very busy, sir...
Those who are badly off must go there.
Many can't go there; and many would rather die.
If they would rather die, said Wolfie, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.
2
I think that a trend to only reviewing work online is an issue. I find it easier to review printed material anything more than a couple of pages.
When I learned to drive, I needed to get behind the wheel. To play tennis, I had to get out on the court. Golf? Pretty much the same. It was helpful to have a wise head and willing set of hands near me for instruction, support, and to tell me what was working, but no one gave me a worksheet and expected me to learn much from it. The same with writing. Kids have to read and write all the time and have a mentor nearby for support and help. We've spoken our language since we were small. This isn't brain surgery, which brain surgeons probably truly learn only when they do.
7
I am a retired teacher educator who has worked with many low income college students. What I have seen are students who "know" what the rules of grammar and punctuation are but do not use them in writing. They rarely go over what they have written to edit it. When I sit with them to review each sentence, they are able to tell me, when I point out an error, what the correction should be.
Why is this? I have no answer!
Why is this? I have no answer!
5
There are many roads a student can follow on their K to 12 journey; when it comes to academics, the vast majority seem to prefer the "Path of Least Resistance".
2
Their public school teachers never demanded it of them. Never marked down for doing shoddy work. Most were probably considered either terminally lazy or stupid, just because they came from low income neighborhoods. Just pass em along. They learned what was taught (because they were scholastically bright), but were never given reasons for using the knowledge. Since when they did sloppy work & weren't penalized for it, why do the extra work to make it right? School (or any mandatory learning) is the hardest thing any human does. Those 12 grades are stuffed to over flowing with things to be learned. So, it's natural for youngsters to try to make it easier. They learn everything, but, never apply most of it. Never realizing that if you don't use what you have learned it can end up useless, even if you still know it. Like those kids, they know how to write, but, it's too much like work. When called on it, they show they know how, they think that should be all they should have to do. Any skill needs practice. In writing, proofreading & rereading what you have written is that practice. So, someday when they are writing an important memo or letter, when they reread it, mistakes sound wrong in your head. Just imagine if a baby was taught the basics of walking, then strapped in a bed for 10 years. Let up & expected to run a marathon & win. That child couldn't crawl, let alone run. The brain has 'muscles' that must be exercised, just like the body.
2
When I taught high school, my 11th graders had never engaged in any meaningful writing beyond the daily journal prompts on the board. My own 11th grade experience involved a heavy duty research paper in addition to almost daily essay writing. So I was shocked at how my students at "the nice high school" were not reading or writing. My fellow teachers even admitted to not focusing on it. My students walked out of my class better writers than they were before, but that's because I decided to buck the local trend. They wrote every day, and not just "Tell me about your weekend" 2 sentence responses.
Now my own children are in school, and we just received the school newsletter yesterday. The principal is practically illiterate herself. While she's certainly nice, her writing is atrocious and sometimes even undecipherable. At last year's spelling bee, she could not even pronounce some of the words for the contestants. My husband and I have been trying to decide if we care about the leader not being an exemplar of language mastery...will it affect our kids who are lucky to have parents who read and write at a high level? I keep leaning toward YES.
Now my own children are in school, and we just received the school newsletter yesterday. The principal is practically illiterate herself. While she's certainly nice, her writing is atrocious and sometimes even undecipherable. At last year's spelling bee, she could not even pronounce some of the words for the contestants. My husband and I have been trying to decide if we care about the leader not being an exemplar of language mastery...will it affect our kids who are lucky to have parents who read and write at a high level? I keep leaning toward YES.
6
I agree, big yes. We see it every day right now with what we have in DC as a 'leader'. Now it's ok to lie, cheat, & steal. So many are.
If all you read or hear is illiteracy, why try to be literate.
I belong to a virtual world. Many people of many countries. Which means many languages. The group I am in is mostly older people, many of us disabled, ill, & English is a second language for many. We have developed our own English language. The complexities removed. Spelling doesn't count (except in one game, where the hosts spelling counts as correct whether it is or not, call it 'otter' language, or English English, or just spelling counts, must match the host's). We also call misspellings typonese. It's own language, but, I found it easy to learn. I have been thinking the down side of this is that as the world grows closer, simplified English will be more prevalent. We will lose a lot of the complexities of dialog. Meaning my alert in my brain will be saying 'sumfin is rong' a lot. Oops, something is wrong. Oh well, I try to keep Raglan out of my Real Life speech. Sometimes it's not easy. Sometimes I like being able to talk to people who only know Raglan English, not American English. Maybe I can come back in 100 years, if the earth is still here, & see whether American English still exists or if there is a degraded form of Raglan here now, not just in my virtual world. Oh it's Second Life.
If all you read or hear is illiteracy, why try to be literate.
I belong to a virtual world. Many people of many countries. Which means many languages. The group I am in is mostly older people, many of us disabled, ill, & English is a second language for many. We have developed our own English language. The complexities removed. Spelling doesn't count (except in one game, where the hosts spelling counts as correct whether it is or not, call it 'otter' language, or English English, or just spelling counts, must match the host's). We also call misspellings typonese. It's own language, but, I found it easy to learn. I have been thinking the down side of this is that as the world grows closer, simplified English will be more prevalent. We will lose a lot of the complexities of dialog. Meaning my alert in my brain will be saying 'sumfin is rong' a lot. Oops, something is wrong. Oh well, I try to keep Raglan out of my Real Life speech. Sometimes it's not easy. Sometimes I like being able to talk to people who only know Raglan English, not American English. Maybe I can come back in 100 years, if the earth is still here, & see whether American English still exists or if there is a degraded form of Raglan here now, not just in my virtual world. Oh it's Second Life.
Call me a conspiracy theorist of some kind but if a country passes laws and makes decisions based on the current and ever-changing state of technology and really thinks the existence of electronic devices means kids don't really need to learn to write anymore, then we will, as a country, be helpless when the devices fail.
Basics, stick to the basics.
As I recently told my 4 year-old granddaughter who, playing Go Fish for the first time, wanted to make up the rules, "You have to learn the rules and then you can play around."
It's the same with reading and writing and arithmetic. And that includes cursive writing. Of course you need to learn cursive writing. Who are these idiots who decide these things?
You have to read, read, read and it all comes from there. Yes, I was once a HS English teacher.
Basics, stick to the basics.
As I recently told my 4 year-old granddaughter who, playing Go Fish for the first time, wanted to make up the rules, "You have to learn the rules and then you can play around."
It's the same with reading and writing and arithmetic. And that includes cursive writing. Of course you need to learn cursive writing. Who are these idiots who decide these things?
You have to read, read, read and it all comes from there. Yes, I was once a HS English teacher.
6
I agree. Never a teacher. Always a voracious reader. Until a couple of years ago when my eyes went bad. Still didn't stop, made concessions though. Only Kindle, then I could make printing as big as needed. About 2 words a page by the end. I missed reading the most. Just picking up a book & sitting down, starting, & often finishing it in one or two days. Also gave up TV, crafting, driving. Got my eyes done. Cataracts AND major astigmatism. Both fixed. Can read again. TV, pffft, who cares (I find documentaries at History, Smithsonian, Science, Amazon Prime, ITunes (yes, not just music there). Watch on my schedule, not theirs.
Because my teachers didn't let me be lazy, here on my IPad (got a laptop & desktop too), my world is endless. I could learn to use them because in learning anything, you stretch your 'learning' muscles'. From Kindergarten (& before) I started stretching them & continue to this day. I'm 66. Today's kids are deprived of being nudged to learn, every day in every way. I feel sorry for them. When I die, my family (the whole thing) will be gone. So, in that sense I don't care if those younger destroy this planet. In another sense it makes me so mad that we are turning into a culture that suggests laziness, lying, stealing, whining, tantrums, murder are ok. Because they aren't. It just may be time to fight back. Maybe besides the Freedom Warriors to get rid of the traitors, we need the Learning Warriors, to clean up the schools. All of them.
Because my teachers didn't let me be lazy, here on my IPad (got a laptop & desktop too), my world is endless. I could learn to use them because in learning anything, you stretch your 'learning' muscles'. From Kindergarten (& before) I started stretching them & continue to this day. I'm 66. Today's kids are deprived of being nudged to learn, every day in every way. I feel sorry for them. When I die, my family (the whole thing) will be gone. So, in that sense I don't care if those younger destroy this planet. In another sense it makes me so mad that we are turning into a culture that suggests laziness, lying, stealing, whining, tantrums, murder are ok. Because they aren't. It just may be time to fight back. Maybe besides the Freedom Warriors to get rid of the traitors, we need the Learning Warriors, to clean up the schools. All of them.
I've written e-mails, letters and notes to colleagues. The comment I hear most is 'You don't have to be so formal'. First, the word 'be' does not equate to the act of writing. Secondly, 'so formal' is not a substitute for professionally.
It appears that the usage of correct grammar is passé. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
It appears that the usage of correct grammar is passé. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
8
The problem is that we now "educate" our teachers in education departments rather than in real academic departments. In the past, English teachers got their graduate degree in English, not English ed. Why is this important? All one has to do is compare coursework in an average graduate English program to coursework in a graduate English education program. The former will be filled with literature and comp. classes, while the latter is stuffed with psycho babble, and decades-old pedagogy that just gets recycled over and over. No real research is required to graduate from most education departments and most writing is of the "reflective" type. Given the substandard education received by our teachers in these departments, it is little wonder that they are passing this onto our students.
Obviously asking "top education" schools like TC at Columbia what is going on will not be of much use. In fact, there are several public high schools in the NYC that have stopped hiring teachers trained at TC, claiming that the teachers don't know their subjects and spend most of their time having the students sit in circles talking about their feelings. This is not education.
If we are serious about empowering our kids, and especially our minority kids, then we need to provide a high quality education, not infantilizing feel-good nonsense.
Obviously asking "top education" schools like TC at Columbia what is going on will not be of much use. In fact, there are several public high schools in the NYC that have stopped hiring teachers trained at TC, claiming that the teachers don't know their subjects and spend most of their time having the students sit in circles talking about their feelings. This is not education.
If we are serious about empowering our kids, and especially our minority kids, then we need to provide a high quality education, not infantilizing feel-good nonsense.
6
As someone who has been in the field for a long time and became a teacher at a time when women were not accepted into many fields, I think what I have to say is important. I also have taught minority and lower income college students for many years.
You have have the problem backwards. You do not seem to know anything about what happens in teacher education classes. You have succumbed to the myths out there to undermine teacher education.
Students today who want to teach English (writing and literature) major in English and take courses in how to teach high school or middle school students to write and analyze literature. Teachers in those grades do not see themselves as teachers of grammar in high school or as teachers of reading. They assume that the their students have mastered those skills prior to high school. And, the college English departments do not see themselves as the place to teach grammar - they expect their majors to know grammar and punctuation already.
What has happened over the years is that the number of courses students are permitted to take in how to teach have declined, not because they are not effective but because of the "belief" out there that you do not need them to learn how to break down academic skills and content in ways that allow children to master it. This is a big mistake. Let's stop the competition, and work together to figure out how to best prepare teachers to teach writing while keeping in mind child development understanding.
You have have the problem backwards. You do not seem to know anything about what happens in teacher education classes. You have succumbed to the myths out there to undermine teacher education.
Students today who want to teach English (writing and literature) major in English and take courses in how to teach high school or middle school students to write and analyze literature. Teachers in those grades do not see themselves as teachers of grammar in high school or as teachers of reading. They assume that the their students have mastered those skills prior to high school. And, the college English departments do not see themselves as the place to teach grammar - they expect their majors to know grammar and punctuation already.
What has happened over the years is that the number of courses students are permitted to take in how to teach have declined, not because they are not effective but because of the "belief" out there that you do not need them to learn how to break down academic skills and content in ways that allow children to master it. This is a big mistake. Let's stop the competition, and work together to figure out how to best prepare teachers to teach writing while keeping in mind child development understanding.
5
You have mentioned a most important point. The saddest point is that departments of education have colluded to expand their bailiwicks, and to rob student teachers of a proper education.
1
The problem started when a good portion of parents decided their poor little kids (including those in college) should never flunk a subject, lowest grade should be a C. Everyone in any kind of event should get a trophy, don't want their little brains taxed. Everyone should pass to the next grade every year. So, as older teachers left teaching (couldn't stand the monsters they had in their classrooms (the parents mostly)), retired, or just gave up, Colleges started teaching what the parents wanted taught. We see the results now.
When I was a kid a 'Normal' school was in the next town (anyone know what a Normal school is?). I asked. Mom said humorously: 'It's where they teach teachers to teach teachers to teach teachers to teach.' Few years later it became a community college, after that a state college, now a state university. Built more buildings, other than that haven't heard the teaching is any better, or more.
In the 1800's in rural areas, 16 year old girls could take an exam, if they passed they could take jobs teaching in rural one room schools. Only the basics were taught. Who but a 16 year old is close enough to all that necessary learning to teach the younger kids? Parents tried to tell these teachers what to teach too. But, many of this girls were learning zealots. Thankfully. And stuck to the state curriculum. The 'adults' didn't like it, just like they don't like 'overtaxing' their children today. Where would they be if their teachers hadn't worked them hard?
When I was a kid a 'Normal' school was in the next town (anyone know what a Normal school is?). I asked. Mom said humorously: 'It's where they teach teachers to teach teachers to teach teachers to teach.' Few years later it became a community college, after that a state college, now a state university. Built more buildings, other than that haven't heard the teaching is any better, or more.
In the 1800's in rural areas, 16 year old girls could take an exam, if they passed they could take jobs teaching in rural one room schools. Only the basics were taught. Who but a 16 year old is close enough to all that necessary learning to teach the younger kids? Parents tried to tell these teachers what to teach too. But, many of this girls were learning zealots. Thankfully. And stuck to the state curriculum. The 'adults' didn't like it, just like they don't like 'overtaxing' their children today. Where would they be if their teachers hadn't worked them hard?
My daughter is in high school. Once her papers have been submitted, and the requisite A given, I've taken to correcting those papers so she sees all the mistakes the teacher neglected to corrected in order to protect her self-esteem and so that she learns what an actual A looks like. Oh and the A in school can usually be earned by, as one of her friends told her, "at the end, just say it's society's fault". Great system.
4
It's what a majority of parents want. Now, most every kid when they graduate says, thinks, screams, 'what was all that stuff I'll never use again for?' Most of us then go off & grow up. Seems many no longer do grow up, realizing what ever you learn is useful, at least in the sense of limbering up your 'learning muscles'. Whether you ever use that knowledge again or not. (Algebra & I took a long time [3 years] to get well acquainted, finally, but, I've not used it since). It's till been useful in how to get through something that is not intuitive to me. But, lots of friends have worked hard in their local schools hammering at what is taught. Also on how to teach, must be kind, must let students slide, must never give less than a C (your daughter's school is worse,it's an A), trophies for everyone in everything, & social promotion. Administrations tell the teachers 'do it their way it's what they want & they pay your salaries'. Some teachers quit, move to private or charter schools which actually allow them to teach & students to learn, retire, or give up & do as required. Ending up with, now, several generations of non educated kids. Bone head courses in college are on the rise. Though some higher learning is just dumbing down. Check how many foreign kids are in any course of study in any college, those are good. Others usually a waste. All because parents have decided their kids are morons. Most aren't, but, all kids need nudging. It's why genius' are hated.
Just like the second place and last place soccer teams. Everyone gets the trophy for showing up.
1
Being able to write is a byproduct of reading - and for children there is no greater teacher. Your writing will not be perfect, but if the narrative is there, it's a good start. Kids love to create work that pleases them and those their peers - and writing is no exception. Kids love to be engaged - and no, that does not include the smartphone usage few hours a day. Such culture persists because it is being allowed from a young age, and then expecting a new flower to bloom overnight that loves to read is a little crazy.
Of course not every reader of books and classic literature will become a great writer, but there is a definite guarantee that they will become effective communicators and some more, given time.
Read and read, and read some more. That is the advice. A speaker of few languages - I can say with certainty that when one is immersed in a single language for long stretches, one does sharpen the tools of the trade, orally speaking. But to broaden even that landscape, one must read and read often.
Good writing demands time but children and teenagers have one clear advantage - their young experiences, their own reactions to them, and the often strong emotions tied to that whole container does provide a quick springboard that is a powerhouse in itself.
If children can admire their own creativity, then you have succeeded in instilling a craft in them, and be assured that they will continue to better themselves in it.
Writing is one of those crafts.
Of course not every reader of books and classic literature will become a great writer, but there is a definite guarantee that they will become effective communicators and some more, given time.
Read and read, and read some more. That is the advice. A speaker of few languages - I can say with certainty that when one is immersed in a single language for long stretches, one does sharpen the tools of the trade, orally speaking. But to broaden even that landscape, one must read and read often.
Good writing demands time but children and teenagers have one clear advantage - their young experiences, their own reactions to them, and the often strong emotions tied to that whole container does provide a quick springboard that is a powerhouse in itself.
If children can admire their own creativity, then you have succeeded in instilling a craft in them, and be assured that they will continue to better themselves in it.
Writing is one of those crafts.
3
As long as they are expected to do the hard part correcting mistakes in the 'tools of the trade'. Like spelling (don't use the word spellcheck, it isn't even near perfect), grammar, all the rules. I had an English teacher in High School who let us write however we wanted, the first draft. He'd grade it on telling the 'story' of the piece, & on how well we followed the rules. It was not unusual for all of us to get A/F on a first draft. He wouldn't mark the errors. He said that our parents were paying him to teach how to write, not be our editors. We'd have time (how much depended on the length of the piece) to proof read, rewrite, proof read, rewrite again, as many times as needed, to correct our spelling, grammar, & tighten up the 'story'. Which got much looser with the other things fixed. Second draft score C/B. Lot's of grumbling. He'd say, 3 days, no more (school days with a weekend usually), final grade. Panic. I was a procrastinator, usually did my homework Sunday night. Also usually had a B/C on first draft & C/B on second. Really didn't take long to get a B/B or even an A/B (I never go for perfection, teacher always wants it every time then).
Reading. We read House of the 7 Gables. A chapter assigned a night. By day 3 teacher noticed my answers came from knowledge further in the book. I was reading that book like I read any book, as much as I could at a time, not just for homework. He said to keep going, he'd grade me on the book's final exam. A I read all class too
Reading. We read House of the 7 Gables. A chapter assigned a night. By day 3 teacher noticed my answers came from knowledge further in the book. I was reading that book like I read any book, as much as I could at a time, not just for homework. He said to keep going, he'd grade me on the book's final exam. A I read all class too
1
This writer had a wise teacher who helped his students learn a little about the complex process of writing, although it required students and teacher to work on the same homework all week.
This is not a new problem. I tutored students taking freshman English classes at a large southern university in the early '70s. Some of these kids supposedly had taken college preparatory courses in high school, but their lack of punctuation, spelling or even written expression skills was frustrating to me. I spent most of my time with them reviewing how to construct complete sentences and paragraphs.
1
I still tend to write run on sentences. Putting a period instead of a comma scares me. Never know which is right. Still don't. These few sentences seem skimpy to me. I want to go back & connect them into one sentence. Guess my problem is I think in large thoughts not short ones. Still doesn't look right.
Same paragraph the way I want them.
I still tend to write run on sentences, putting a period instead of a comma scares me, never know which is right, still don't. These few sentences seem skimpy to me, I want to go back & connect them into one sentence. Guess my problem is I think in large thoughts not short ones. Still doesn't look right.
Three sentences actually. Copy/pasted the top. Changed periods into commas where I wanted to.
Same paragraph the way I want them.
I still tend to write run on sentences, putting a period instead of a comma scares me, never know which is right, still don't. These few sentences seem skimpy to me, I want to go back & connect them into one sentence. Guess my problem is I think in large thoughts not short ones. Still doesn't look right.
Three sentences actually. Copy/pasted the top. Changed periods into commas where I wanted to.
I can cite my father as the greatest influence on my word affection -- thanks to a few but continuous early childhood experiences. Disposition has a lot to do with skills, and values in the home have a lot to do with disposition; values in the home have a lot to do with community culture, and so on. Why not posit, too, that our materialist cultural trends fall short of filling a basic volume of our human endeavor, which is too poor or small -- evidently -- for many to notice or admit. Barbarians, all.
1
Students today don't read. How can you write well or even know what good writing is if you have not read a book that is well written? And texting does not lend itself to writing or knowing grammar. Nor does Twitter. Rude awakening for some of these kids when they enter the real world, can't Tweet or Text for work and actually have to write memos, create presentations, or the horror, write a proposal. I see it every day.
5
Charles Ives, a composer who demanded we stretch our ears, was told by his father to learn the rules before breaking them.
10
I learned grammar the easy way. First, my mother, not a well educated woman, read well written story books to me as a toddler, and I would watch her index finger following the words on the page. As a result I could read a little bit before I entered kindergarten, and developed an "ear" for what good writing sounded like. She also brought me to the local public library and signed me up for a children's book club from which I received a eagerly anticipated book in the mail each month. I think a love of reading is essential to learn how to write.
Secondly, my 8th grade English teacher made learning grammar fun. Sentence diagramming was presented as a "gang" war between the Nominatives and the Predicates, with other parts of speech represented as attempts to burrow under or climb over into the opposing gangs' territory. He taught us to "spear" PIGs in sentences (Participles, Infinitives & Gerunds) and if we made a mistake, we had speared a friendly native! Our grammar worksheets were fun to complete every day.
I think instilling a love of reading stories and the gamification of grammar instruction would go a long way to help children learn how to write properly. When that foundation is laid, the ability to clearly express one's self is made much easier. That said, I apologize for any errors in this comment.
Secondly, my 8th grade English teacher made learning grammar fun. Sentence diagramming was presented as a "gang" war between the Nominatives and the Predicates, with other parts of speech represented as attempts to burrow under or climb over into the opposing gangs' territory. He taught us to "spear" PIGs in sentences (Participles, Infinitives & Gerunds) and if we made a mistake, we had speared a friendly native! Our grammar worksheets were fun to complete every day.
I think instilling a love of reading stories and the gamification of grammar instruction would go a long way to help children learn how to write properly. When that foundation is laid, the ability to clearly express one's self is made much easier. That said, I apologize for any errors in this comment.
6
Another person who 'hears' mistakes when proofreading. Nice to meet 'cha.
Dad read me the funnies every Sunday, till one Sunday he said, you read them to me, if you find a word you don't know ask. I was 5. Didn't have to ask much. As I looked at the words I 'heard' them in my head. Said them as I heard them.
Lucky for me I lived in a town. So, by 5 I was walking to the library, getting out books a couple times a week & often reading one while there. Participated in the summer reading program until I was 7, then I'd won too often, so was disqualified. I read the children's library twice by 11. Was picking out books from the Adult library & having Mom take them out by 10. Got my own adult card at 12, in a little ceremony in the lobby between the two libraries. Mom standing back looking proud. Also relieved I wouldn't be eating into her book allotment every week, I think.
When bookstores grew up everywhere I thought I'd died & gone to Heaven. Then realized small apartments aren't' good for book buyers.
Then came Kindle. Bliss, pure bliss. I still have library cards. Not in this town. They have a horrible rule. If you take a book off a shelf & don't want it, put it on any near by cart. I just can't. So, I can't take books off shelves. Next town, no stupid rule, plus can find a book in the computer card catalogue. Not in this library, fill out a card, & have it borrowed for you, & sent to that library. Find lots of old goodies that way. Old friends.
Dad read me the funnies every Sunday, till one Sunday he said, you read them to me, if you find a word you don't know ask. I was 5. Didn't have to ask much. As I looked at the words I 'heard' them in my head. Said them as I heard them.
Lucky for me I lived in a town. So, by 5 I was walking to the library, getting out books a couple times a week & often reading one while there. Participated in the summer reading program until I was 7, then I'd won too often, so was disqualified. I read the children's library twice by 11. Was picking out books from the Adult library & having Mom take them out by 10. Got my own adult card at 12, in a little ceremony in the lobby between the two libraries. Mom standing back looking proud. Also relieved I wouldn't be eating into her book allotment every week, I think.
When bookstores grew up everywhere I thought I'd died & gone to Heaven. Then realized small apartments aren't' good for book buyers.
Then came Kindle. Bliss, pure bliss. I still have library cards. Not in this town. They have a horrible rule. If you take a book off a shelf & don't want it, put it on any near by cart. I just can't. So, I can't take books off shelves. Next town, no stupid rule, plus can find a book in the computer card catalogue. Not in this library, fill out a card, & have it borrowed for you, & sent to that library. Find lots of old goodies that way. Old friends.
1
I am a writing teacher and this article misses an important point: students need to read their work aloud in front of supportive peers. When reading aloud, the student can learn to identify their own errors or weak sentences; in a reciprocal manner, the audience learns from student models. Professional writing can sometimes be daunting to students and is akin to asking students to climb to a second story window without a ladder.
4
Ironically, the best grammar instruction I ever received was in my Latin class in high school. Every sentence was parsed to identify components that conveyed the true meaning of a sentence.
Understanding the mechanics of a sentence made reading much easier - for English or any other language.
If a student is writing a sentence with no understanding of grammar or punctuation, how can they be expected to accurately write what they mean? Let them find their "voice" when they know how to correctly transcribe their thoughts.
Understanding the mechanics of a sentence made reading much easier - for English or any other language.
If a student is writing a sentence with no understanding of grammar or punctuation, how can they be expected to accurately write what they mean? Let them find their "voice" when they know how to correctly transcribe their thoughts.
7
I took Latin. Is still useful in defining many words. I flunked Latin. First student the teacher ever flunked. Almost flunked English that year as she spent my English time trying to stuff Latin into me. Languages are not my long suit.
One suggestion to teachers. I had several really bad falls growing up. Onto my head. Kids look at things like memory problems as if they are shameful faults. Since the last fall (probably before) I have had bad problems moving temporary memories to permanent memories. I explain it like having a pitcher on one side of a deep crack, a catcher on the other side. Used to be a tiny crack. Used to be a good pitcher & catcher. Now I lose far more into the crack. I've learned, on my own, work arounds, not perfect. Make sure you have my complete attention. Hold eye contact to keep it. Then ask me to repeat what you said. Don't shame me if I lose something. To me it was never there. Probably better ones, if I'd ever told anyone. After I was all grown up I told my Mom. She cried. Said she didn't know (of course not, I hid it as best I could), they would have gotten me help if they had. I have started thinking of CTE a lot recently. I'm 66. If I have a choice I'd take dementia rather than CTE. Give me one favorite book & I'll reread it over & over till I die. Happily.
One suggestion to teachers. I had several really bad falls growing up. Onto my head. Kids look at things like memory problems as if they are shameful faults. Since the last fall (probably before) I have had bad problems moving temporary memories to permanent memories. I explain it like having a pitcher on one side of a deep crack, a catcher on the other side. Used to be a tiny crack. Used to be a good pitcher & catcher. Now I lose far more into the crack. I've learned, on my own, work arounds, not perfect. Make sure you have my complete attention. Hold eye contact to keep it. Then ask me to repeat what you said. Don't shame me if I lose something. To me it was never there. Probably better ones, if I'd ever told anyone. After I was all grown up I told my Mom. She cried. Said she didn't know (of course not, I hid it as best I could), they would have gotten me help if they had. I have started thinking of CTE a lot recently. I'm 66. If I have a choice I'd take dementia rather than CTE. Give me one favorite book & I'll reread it over & over till I die. Happily.
Poor writing skills are but one aspect of the overall failure of education, especially urban education. In Rochester, NY the high school graduation rate is a dismal 47%. Barely 12% of that 47% are ready for college. That means that 53%, at a minimum, will join the poverty population. Doomed, for a lifetime of misery. It's know as generational poverty. The main problem,...we do not teach the way they learn. We bore them to quitting. Relevant education is needed and they will not provide it. The result, doing things the same way year in year out and expecting different results. Insanity.
2
They did that 50 years ago too. Difference? In my house dropping out was unthinkable. Not an option. Nope, can't do that. Gotta hang on, graduate.
It's not the teaching. I took lots of boring classes. Flunked a couple (another no no in my family). Even got a D in English, while flunking Latin. It's the attitude at home. I was never hit, never. But, when I saw that report card where I had flunked Latin, Algebra 1, & got a D in English I was petrified to go home. That report card was totally unexceptable. Obviously they didn't kill me. Or punish me. I'd done enough to myself. Next year I took General Math (on my own), which ended with a term of, dah dah Algebra1, aced it. Didn't need another language. My course of study said I had to take, it did not say I had to pass. I lucked out with English. There were levels. Because of that D, next year was in low level, so missed reading Shakespeare (see yes, read & try to explain, no worthless. Try it with Star Wars), got a B that year, in high level next year, missed Shakespeare again, though got to go see a professional troupe do 3 plays over a month, loved them, otherwise boring, got a C. So Senior year was in low level, skated through. Luck, pure luck. Also, senior year only needed 1 year of English & of gym to graduate. Took Business Machines 1 also, otherwise had 13 study halls a week. Finished reading my way through the school library. Best year in school.
It's not the teaching. I took lots of boring classes. Flunked a couple (another no no in my family). Even got a D in English, while flunking Latin. It's the attitude at home. I was never hit, never. But, when I saw that report card where I had flunked Latin, Algebra 1, & got a D in English I was petrified to go home. That report card was totally unexceptable. Obviously they didn't kill me. Or punish me. I'd done enough to myself. Next year I took General Math (on my own), which ended with a term of, dah dah Algebra1, aced it. Didn't need another language. My course of study said I had to take, it did not say I had to pass. I lucked out with English. There were levels. Because of that D, next year was in low level, so missed reading Shakespeare (see yes, read & try to explain, no worthless. Try it with Star Wars), got a B that year, in high level next year, missed Shakespeare again, though got to go see a professional troupe do 3 plays over a month, loved them, otherwise boring, got a C. So Senior year was in low level, skated through. Luck, pure luck. Also, senior year only needed 1 year of English & of gym to graduate. Took Business Machines 1 also, otherwise had 13 study halls a week. Finished reading my way through the school library. Best year in school.
While I agree that too much attention to the grammatical details may be counterproductive, nevertheless the basics are indispensable for the writing of clear sentences. For example, the lack of a comma changes "Let's eat, Grandma" from a pleasant invitation to a family meal to an incestuous cannibal feast.
4
" Wellington's mastery of English grammar, even while being shot at, allowed him to tersely communicate precisely what his men should do in multiple contingencies."
one vote here for terseness. please inform Congress and government bureaucrats.
one vote here for terseness. please inform Congress and government bureaucrats.
1
I always thought we paid them by the word, without care for grammar, spelling, or truth. Are you sure we don't?
“Well Machines are good but they take people jobs like if they don’t know how to use it they get fired.”
Does anyone really believe that the high school senior who wrote this would have benefited from lessons on sentence diagramming and the rules of grammar? If this "sentence" was read aloud to the writer, do you think they would recognize the fundamental errors in syntax and grammar?
When you talk like this, you write like this.
Does anyone really believe that the high school senior who wrote this would have benefited from lessons on sentence diagramming and the rules of grammar? If this "sentence" was read aloud to the writer, do you think they would recognize the fundamental errors in syntax and grammar?
When you talk like this, you write like this.
2
No, you talk like that because you never heard or were taught proper English. Not in writing, grammar, thinking, or speech.
Yes I even had a speech class. My most hated. Even more than gym after some bad falls (gymnastics feels deadly after several bad falls on the head).
We had to write short 'talks' (think teacher though word speech too scary), then stand in front of class & read them. Yours always seems 3 hours long, others about 30 seconds.
One time when I was going over my 'talk', the teacher asked me something & I said 'ahya'. Which in the old dialect of New England means yes. Well, instead of throwing me out, we had a lecture on speech patterns in different parts of the country. Was fascinating. He had each of us say the same thing, as our parents would have. Each was so different. One was 'I parked my cah in Hahvad squaha' (I parked my car in Harvard Square). He told me that my family was from both Northern New England (New Hampshire/Maine) & the colloquial Boston. Absolutely true. I still drop R's, but, I usually give them back (to come out even) in places they don't belong, like 'morden' for modern. It's what makes English interesting.I know when standard English is better (except for modern, manage it) & use it. Other times it adds color. It's why this kind of speech class is good. You learn standard & appreciate colloquial.
Yes I even had a speech class. My most hated. Even more than gym after some bad falls (gymnastics feels deadly after several bad falls on the head).
We had to write short 'talks' (think teacher though word speech too scary), then stand in front of class & read them. Yours always seems 3 hours long, others about 30 seconds.
One time when I was going over my 'talk', the teacher asked me something & I said 'ahya'. Which in the old dialect of New England means yes. Well, instead of throwing me out, we had a lecture on speech patterns in different parts of the country. Was fascinating. He had each of us say the same thing, as our parents would have. Each was so different. One was 'I parked my cah in Hahvad squaha' (I parked my car in Harvard Square). He told me that my family was from both Northern New England (New Hampshire/Maine) & the colloquial Boston. Absolutely true. I still drop R's, but, I usually give them back (to come out even) in places they don't belong, like 'morden' for modern. It's what makes English interesting.I know when standard English is better (except for modern, manage it) & use it. Other times it adds color. It's why this kind of speech class is good. You learn standard & appreciate colloquial.
1
Note to Readers: A version of this article will appear in the New York Times at least once every 3 years for the foreseeable future...as it has for the previous (at least) 50 years.
4
Hopefully it will sink in sometime. Though the problem seems to be getting worse in the last 50 years than better.
I had a real cursive writer to learn cursive from. Did you know their are different types & we learned the one our teacher knew. The local Catholic school learned another & after that year we swapped off letters.
I grew up with a Mom & brother who both should have been doctors, & a father (Auditor, when all was hand written in banks) who's writing looked like machine printing. I could read them all, mom not easily. Years later I took a year of calligraphy at a local college, from a nun who broke her arm just before class started. Last course she taught. :(
We need to know how to write. If power goes out & we need to leave a note, the young ones will be in trouble.
I had a real cursive writer to learn cursive from. Did you know their are different types & we learned the one our teacher knew. The local Catholic school learned another & after that year we swapped off letters.
I grew up with a Mom & brother who both should have been doctors, & a father (Auditor, when all was hand written in banks) who's writing looked like machine printing. I could read them all, mom not easily. Years later I took a year of calligraphy at a local college, from a nun who broke her arm just before class started. Last course she taught. :(
We need to know how to write. If power goes out & we need to leave a note, the young ones will be in trouble.
Illiterate tweets from the head of the nation suggest none of this apparently matters. You can still worm your way into a decent job without basic grammar.
4
You can't write if you don't read.
11
Can't write ? !!
Why have they stopped teaching cursive?
I have two grandsons, age 19 & 11 who can not read a handwritten note. Their birthday cards have to be read to them if I do not print. Their parents say that with computers there is no need to teach cursive....
Am I that behind the times ???
Why have they stopped teaching cursive?
I have two grandsons, age 19 & 11 who can not read a handwritten note. Their birthday cards have to be read to them if I do not print. Their parents say that with computers there is no need to teach cursive....
Am I that behind the times ???
5
Not to me. It's why my watch has Roman Numerals. So a kid asks the time, I show them my watch, & enjoy their stupidity. Only with the ones old enough so they should know.
Little kids I explain the numbers & they are fascinated.
I write in cursive mostly. If the kid can't read it, I'd suggest you tell the parents not to read it too them, then put the location of the present in cursive on the card. They will figure it out if it's important enough.
Always knew parents were getting more stupid. Means the end of civilization. Glad I'll be dead.
Little kids I explain the numbers & they are fascinated.
I write in cursive mostly. If the kid can't read it, I'd suggest you tell the parents not to read it too them, then put the location of the present in cursive on the card. They will figure it out if it's important enough.
Always knew parents were getting more stupid. Means the end of civilization. Glad I'll be dead.
"Many educators are concerned less with sentence-level mechanics than with helping students draw inspiration from their own lives and from literature." This is nonsense.
"Ms. Wanzer led the students in a freewrite, a popular English class strategy of writing without stopping or judging. First, she read aloud from “Bird by Bird,” Anne Lamott’s 1995 classic." Freewriting is a total waste of time. That said, "Bird by Bird" was a good book.
"Ms. Wanzer ... limits the time she spends covering dull topics like subject-verb agreement. “You hope that by exposing them to great writing, they’ll start to hear what’s going on.” This is a vain hope.
Adherents of freewriting and the like "worry that focusing too much on grammar or citing sources will stifle the writerly voice and prevent children from falling in love with writing as an activity." Think every medical student loves taking basic anatomy, that every aspiring football player loves doing leg lifts?
“It all starts with a sentence,” Dr. Hochman said. Indeed, it does.
"Ms. Wanzer led the students in a freewrite, a popular English class strategy of writing without stopping or judging. First, she read aloud from “Bird by Bird,” Anne Lamott’s 1995 classic." Freewriting is a total waste of time. That said, "Bird by Bird" was a good book.
"Ms. Wanzer ... limits the time she spends covering dull topics like subject-verb agreement. “You hope that by exposing them to great writing, they’ll start to hear what’s going on.” This is a vain hope.
Adherents of freewriting and the like "worry that focusing too much on grammar or citing sources will stifle the writerly voice and prevent children from falling in love with writing as an activity." Think every medical student loves taking basic anatomy, that every aspiring football player loves doing leg lifts?
“It all starts with a sentence,” Dr. Hochman said. Indeed, it does.
3
Thanks for kicking teachers again.
1
I'm a professor of (nineteenth-century literature and) writing and the Director of College Writing at a New England SLAC. The problem of student writing certainly exists, and the article offers some important observations. There is not, however, a "notable shortage of quality research on the teaching of writing"--at least not for the teaching of writing on the college level. Spend some time with the research--or, easier, peruse the CWPA's website. For teaching ideas, lessons, and resources try the Harvard Writing Project or Writing Commons (free digital resources).
I can't believe the article ended with calling the student's final product a "gorgeous sentence." Yes, it was an excellent start to what might become a memorable essay, but much work was needed to make a reader believe the storyteller was ready to pursue a higher education at an upper level elite institution. My 8th grade English teacher drilled us mercilessly on sentence structure. We hated her for it and called her names behind her back. My freshmen English instructor (tenured professors didn't teach freshman English) gave us back our papers with red lines and comments pointing out our errors. The best part was that if we took the time and effort to redo the paper he would give us a second grade, and average the two grades (obviously the initial grade was not an A) to produce a higher final grade. That both motivated me and helped me be a better writer. To this day I attribute much of whatever success I have had during a long legal career to these two individuals. My most gorgeous sentences are those that I edit several times over and adhere to the basic rules of grammar. That should be the standard, not the exception.
6
Few debate the need to first master fundamentals to excel in sports. Budding athletes spend boring hours learning and rigorously practicing them at softball batting cages, golf putting greens, and similar venues for other sports. But with writing and other academic subjects, misguided educators replaced rigor with "learning has to be FUN." Unfortunately, as in sports, few people excel in writing without doing the boring stuff first. My 9th grade English teacher was the last in my public school to make students diagram sentences. Yes, I hated it at the time. But now I regularly think of her and remain grateful for her boring lessons.
3
First of all, as many have said, writers are readers. You don't learn the rhythm of language without long and consistent exposure to good models.
Secondly, those who view true expression as something separate from the rules of writing do not appreciate that in writing, as in all art (and writing is, no matter its specific purpose, an art), the degree of authenticity depends strictly on the artist's control of structure. In addition, writing (again, like all arts) is a simulacrum; it parallels reality, but does not strictly represent it. Good writing does not map the world; it maps the writer's mind, and is good or bad according to that mind's clarity.
Secondly, those who view true expression as something separate from the rules of writing do not appreciate that in writing, as in all art (and writing is, no matter its specific purpose, an art), the degree of authenticity depends strictly on the artist's control of structure. In addition, writing (again, like all arts) is a simulacrum; it parallels reality, but does not strictly represent it. Good writing does not map the world; it maps the writer's mind, and is good or bad according to that mind's clarity.
I've read many comments. Opinions fall in two camps: people who are begging educators to focus on grammar and sentence structure because they are tired of reading so much of the disorganized, incomprehensible drivel put out by students, and people, often writers themselves, who believe students need only to "read, read, read" and the rest will come naturally. I must say, opinions are strongly held on this issue. I, myself, am in favor of emphasizing grammar and sentence structure. Why? Because, except for personal journals, people write to communicate with others, and nobody wants to read a sentence like: "Well Machines are good but they take people jobs like if they don't know how to use it they get fired." Nobody wants to read that.
So here is my argument for teaching grammar: courtesy. Courtesy to the reader. I am more or less able to understand what that poorly written sentence is saying, but my mind is forced to fall all over it and piece it together. We have conventions for writing and we should teach them and use them. It's simple courtesy to the reader.
And, I must sadly point out that kids will be readers or they will not be readers. Many, even before the digital age, never read anything beyond schoolwork. Be realistic; that's just how it is. So it is a service to them to teach grammar. They won't pick it up on their own.
Future Hemingways will find their voices. Can we please focus on ordinary people?
So here is my argument for teaching grammar: courtesy. Courtesy to the reader. I am more or less able to understand what that poorly written sentence is saying, but my mind is forced to fall all over it and piece it together. We have conventions for writing and we should teach them and use them. It's simple courtesy to the reader.
And, I must sadly point out that kids will be readers or they will not be readers. Many, even before the digital age, never read anything beyond schoolwork. Be realistic; that's just how it is. So it is a service to them to teach grammar. They won't pick it up on their own.
Future Hemingways will find their voices. Can we please focus on ordinary people?
4
Yes, people write to communicate with others, but first they need to communicate with themselves. Joan Didion said 'I don't know what I think until I write it down.' This isn't about creating Hemingways, but about helping students learn how to wrangle their thoughts into something cogent. All the good grammar in the world does not prevent muddled, incoherent thinking.
3
I can write perfect, grammatical sentences that express no meaning and that do not fulfill any purpose. Language, including written language, is a combination of content, form, and use. Some students will need more help with grammar, some with meaning, and some with making sure their writing matches the intended purpose.
1
Perhaps a lot of people, like our President, are wrong role models for this type of classic education. They are "successful" without these sophisticated writing and fine speaking skills...what is the motivation for a child to learn?
2
How is it possible, in the 21st century, that we are still taking a "expression" vs "rigorous grammar" approach?
1. Why not both
2. If both, which is fundamental?
2a. What is the goal of writing, to write correct grammar, or to express an idea (through argument, information, narrative, or otherwise)?
Obviously, the goal of writing is to express ideas, through whatever means possible.
Therefore, proper grammatical construction, while absolutely necessary, is secondary.
The best explanation of this available will not be found in any educational journals or in any writings by "experts" on writing.
See Iain McGilchrist's "The Master and His Emissary."
For the single best overview of his work, see his lecture at the Blake Society: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijg3HTpEKMI
www.remember-to-breathe.org
1. Why not both
2. If both, which is fundamental?
2a. What is the goal of writing, to write correct grammar, or to express an idea (through argument, information, narrative, or otherwise)?
Obviously, the goal of writing is to express ideas, through whatever means possible.
Therefore, proper grammatical construction, while absolutely necessary, is secondary.
The best explanation of this available will not be found in any educational journals or in any writings by "experts" on writing.
See Iain McGilchrist's "The Master and His Emissary."
For the single best overview of his work, see his lecture at the Blake Society: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijg3HTpEKMI
www.remember-to-breathe.org
2
I have taught HS English. When I was in college, there was a required course in the HS English teacher curriculum. It was all about the art of teaching English and included a segment on teaching good writing skills and grading papers. Grading papers was emphasized as an especially important part of teaching good writing.
We were taught to target the worst errors – not every single error. There’s nothing more distressing than seeing one’s paper marked up in red. At the same time, we were urged to point out where the student’s writing was commendable. It is as important to inform the students when their writing is particularly effective as it is to inform them of their errors.
In the end, we still must teach the boring, structural points of good writing along with allowing room for students to explore the creative process of writing.
We were taught to target the worst errors – not every single error. There’s nothing more distressing than seeing one’s paper marked up in red. At the same time, we were urged to point out where the student’s writing was commendable. It is as important to inform the students when their writing is particularly effective as it is to inform them of their errors.
In the end, we still must teach the boring, structural points of good writing along with allowing room for students to explore the creative process of writing.
3
This article seems mostly interested in what females find interesting, but males would be interested by studying the importance of grammar in military orders. Historian John Keegan's book "The Mask of Command" recounts a short but complex order written on horseback by the Duke of Wellington during the Battle of Waterloo. Wellington's mastery of English grammar, even while being shot at, allowed him to tersely communicate precisely what his men should do in multiple contingencies.
1
". Let's not forget that nearly one in five students (4 or 5 per average class) are on the dyslexia spectrum; many of whom are undiagnosed."
psychiatrist think that nearly everybody is at minimum slightly off the walls. in actuality they are referring to themselves but leave off the word slightly.
your remark parallels to a lesser degree, now we are a nation suffering from widespread dyslexia. ask what "professionals" benefits from this kind of diagnosis?
psychiatrist think that nearly everybody is at minimum slightly off the walls. in actuality they are referring to themselves but leave off the word slightly.
your remark parallels to a lesser degree, now we are a nation suffering from widespread dyslexia. ask what "professionals" benefits from this kind of diagnosis?
2
This author takes an interestingly shallow approach to understanding the root cause of student's writing deficiency. S/he claims that upon examination of curriculums of teacher training programs they can infer that teachers see themselves as weak or unconfident writers.
Based on the author's process, I'm having a difficult time reaching that same conclusion.
There are other structural issues that I believe pose more plausible explanations. I will list a couple
1. Teaching students to write is more time intensive than teaching them multiple choice strategies. (students have yet to master MC tests either)
2. Evaluations for writing are more subjective and are more difficult to track progress of. In data rich districts the focus is on tracking performance.
Writing is more difficult to measure.
Based on the author's process, I'm having a difficult time reaching that same conclusion.
There are other structural issues that I believe pose more plausible explanations. I will list a couple
1. Teaching students to write is more time intensive than teaching them multiple choice strategies. (students have yet to master MC tests either)
2. Evaluations for writing are more subjective and are more difficult to track progress of. In data rich districts the focus is on tracking performance.
Writing is more difficult to measure.
3
As journalists know, and the author of this piece could attest, I'm sure, good writing is developed through writing. All the teacher-training in the world won't help students given lists of required skills but too little time to develop them. Well intentioned as the Common Core standards are, they are nothing but another stick with which to wack children who can't meet them unless they are supported by serious amounts of classroom time devoted to writing, reading, and rewriting.
5
Long ago, my daughter had a ditto sheet English homework assignment. Before she started, I noticed five grammatical errors on the sheet. I circled the mistakes and wrote that I refused to let my daughter participate in this assignment as written.
We received an apology which included a thank you, and a promise by the young teacher proof read all her work before passing it onto the students. Great lesson for the teacher and my child.
We received an apology which included a thank you, and a promise by the young teacher proof read all her work before passing it onto the students. Great lesson for the teacher and my child.
8
The problem starts at the top of this article. The quaint yellow sheet of binder paper. Some schools have been issuing laptops to students for many years, but I propose a headlong, national movement to tablets. Tablets offer a platform where applications to teach handwriting, grammar and reading can be developed and deployed. This provides tools to assist teachers, otherwise a class of students is slowed to one at a time as the teacher reviews and corrects individually.
Cloud applications put the entire output of the student at teacher and pupil's fingertips. No more shuffling piles of papers to correct every night. Young teachers, aides and even parents have the entire student termwork at their fingertips. This is an opportunity to advance student learning through application of technology.
I have faced the reality that today's students will never have the visceral attraction to books that those of us from the last century embraced in our educational careers. For them, comfort with and effective interface with devices is the key to their future. The ubiquitous sheet of lined paper needs to be relegated to the dustbin of history. The forests will thank us and our youth will be better prepared for THEIR future.
Cloud applications put the entire output of the student at teacher and pupil's fingertips. No more shuffling piles of papers to correct every night. Young teachers, aides and even parents have the entire student termwork at their fingertips. This is an opportunity to advance student learning through application of technology.
I have faced the reality that today's students will never have the visceral attraction to books that those of us from the last century embraced in our educational careers. For them, comfort with and effective interface with devices is the key to their future. The ubiquitous sheet of lined paper needs to be relegated to the dustbin of history. The forests will thank us and our youth will be better prepared for THEIR future.
Let's deal in facts here. Writing an essay for admission to college is one thing, writing a job resume quite another. The first allows a potential student the benefit of remedial training. The second, done poorly, eliminates the applicant. Effective educators emphasize the latter.
1
Many many resumes are screened and summarized by software. We are told that Employers spend only a few seconds glancing at the results. It's not the quality of writing that's eliminating applicants.
We have known all this since the National Writing project in 1975: Johnny can't write because his teacher can't write, and Johnny needs to learn how to think. Although understanding the difference between a dependent and independent clause might sound so boring, it does help in building basic skills. Today, I would add, maybe Johnny's teacher deserves a living wage and perhaps even combat pay for dealing with over-ambitious parents who also can't write and do not have even a single book in the house.
Read, think, practice with feedback, engage, discuss, make it interesting, repeat.
Read, think, practice with feedback, engage, discuss, make it interesting, repeat.
11
I've never read such a poorly understood analysis of the purpose of free writing. The most important act that one can make in the process of writing is simply to write. Free writing can be a useful tool to start this process. But it certainly is not a "be all, end all" method of teaching writing at any formal educational level.
4
Is it any wonder students don't learn to write? Just review the materials from teachers and administrators that soon will be coming home with children starting a new school year. You'll be hard pressed to find a syllabus or policy that communicates with clarity or concision.
9
I am currently a high school student. Although I am no longer an avid reader (too much homework and not enough time), in elementary school I read thousands of chapter books. I know that sounds implausible, but I read over three hundred a year the few years I kept track. My mother actually complained, on several occasions, that I always had my nose buried in a book! Consequently, I am a superb writer. I excel at writing fictional stories, but more often than not my school papers receive A's. However, while I tend to write grammatically-correct sentences, I know next to nothing of sentence structure and grammar rules. All of that jargon bores me, to be honest. My writing is more instinctive than learned. Therefore, for children to become good writers, they must first appreciate books. On that note, low-income children are not necessarily at a disadvantage. I myself am poor, and the public library served my needs quite well. Reading taught me how to write.
I do not know much about dyslexia, but audiobooks and movies with correct grammar might help at least a little. These days most everyone speaks in slang, and movies reflect that to better connect with the audience.
I do not know much about dyslexia, but audiobooks and movies with correct grammar might help at least a little. These days most everyone speaks in slang, and movies reflect that to better connect with the audience.
8
I am significantly older than you and a writer by trade. I was taught grammar and the diagramming of sentences, but many years later don't remember much of it. Like you I write mostly by instinct and always have. I do have the good sense to listen to my gut, however, when something doesn't feel quite right, and then I consult the grammar sites.
Best of luck with your fiction!
Best of luck with your fiction!
5
An self-proclaimed excellent writer who thinks the plural of A is A's, the possessive. I know authors who have published many books who do not have the hubris to refer to themselves as "superb writers." Indeed, every real writer I have known has a humility about the difficulties of grappling with words and meanings and expressing the nuances of thought. But apparently those of the special snowflake generation lack all modesty or objectivity.
2
@Earthling, and which generation specializes in sanctimonious boorishness?
There is nothing wrong with a young writer having confidence in her abilities. To write, or to produce any art, requires both confidence (belief that one has something important to say) AND humility.
I enjoyed Hazel's perspective and found her writing cogent and engaging, which was not diminished by a misplaced apostrophe (and a common mistake made by many an adult).
Forest and trees, my friend.
There is nothing wrong with a young writer having confidence in her abilities. To write, or to produce any art, requires both confidence (belief that one has something important to say) AND humility.
I enjoyed Hazel's perspective and found her writing cogent and engaging, which was not diminished by a misplaced apostrophe (and a common mistake made by many an adult).
Forest and trees, my friend.
3
Many comments have stressed the notion that good readers make better writers. Let's not forget that nearly one in five students (4 or 5 per average class) are on the dyslexia spectrum; many of whom are undiagnosed. Getting kids who struggle to read because of cognitive disabilities to become good writers is a difficult challenge that can't be ignored.
I believe most English teachers cannot write themselves and most also are not taught how to teach writing.
Most of their energy is put toward teaching to all the stupid standardized testing. There is no room left for teaching students how to use their basic writing skills to express their personal ideas, opinions, feelings and experiences.
(As a former journalist and high school English teacher, I've worked with students on how to write college application essays for the last decade, and most can quickly learn to tell their own stories and explain their deeper meaning with just a little instruction and guidance.)
It also hurts that many don't read so they have not developed an ear for language either.
Yes, students need to learn writing mechanics, but that is only the first step.
We all need to value writing and personal expression if we expect our educational priorities and resources to shift to help teachers learn it themselves and how to teach it.
Writing can be taught and learned at any stage, but it is a progressive process that takes time and motivation.
Recognizing we have national writers's block is the first step. Great article! Thank you.
Most of their energy is put toward teaching to all the stupid standardized testing. There is no room left for teaching students how to use their basic writing skills to express their personal ideas, opinions, feelings and experiences.
(As a former journalist and high school English teacher, I've worked with students on how to write college application essays for the last decade, and most can quickly learn to tell their own stories and explain their deeper meaning with just a little instruction and guidance.)
It also hurts that many don't read so they have not developed an ear for language either.
Yes, students need to learn writing mechanics, but that is only the first step.
We all need to value writing and personal expression if we expect our educational priorities and resources to shift to help teachers learn it themselves and how to teach it.
Writing can be taught and learned at any stage, but it is a progressive process that takes time and motivation.
Recognizing we have national writers's block is the first step. Great article! Thank you.
4
I am a college professor; I teach English 101. Writing is directly linked to reading. Students don't read, so their writing reflects that. Read an unclear, grammatically incorrect sentence aloud and they hear nothing wrong. Remind them that in order for a sentence to be complete there needs to be a subject and a verb. They cannot find the subject.
Writing is no different than playing the piano, learning to knit or being a pitcher on the school's baseball team. It takes practice. Sadly, a fairly accurate generalization is that students don't read and they certainly don't practice writing. Needless to say, we educators have our work cut out for ourselves.
Writing is no different than playing the piano, learning to knit or being a pitcher on the school's baseball team. It takes practice. Sadly, a fairly accurate generalization is that students don't read and they certainly don't practice writing. Needless to say, we educators have our work cut out for ourselves.
20
The Confessions of an English Literature & Philosophy Graduate
1. I studied Literature at one of the best iniversities in America.
2. I didn't know that I didn't know anything about grammar until I started learning Turkish.
3. I didn't learn all parts of speech and complex sentences in any meaningful way before I started teaching English, and even some of that learning was done simultaneously with my students in the classroom.
4. When I read my research papers from undergrad I wonder why all my split infinitives went unchecked, or how my ideas were so moving to my professors when they weren't communicated as necessary, or maybe even at all sometimes.
Grammar is the only way to develop a voice as a writer or as a person.
1. I studied Literature at one of the best iniversities in America.
2. I didn't know that I didn't know anything about grammar until I started learning Turkish.
3. I didn't learn all parts of speech and complex sentences in any meaningful way before I started teaching English, and even some of that learning was done simultaneously with my students in the classroom.
4. When I read my research papers from undergrad I wonder why all my split infinitives went unchecked, or how my ideas were so moving to my professors when they weren't communicated as necessary, or maybe even at all sometimes.
Grammar is the only way to develop a voice as a writer or as a person.
6
Writing is basically just thinking on paper. For most students the problem is the thinking part more than the putting it on paper. And that's ok--original, cogent thoughts don't come easily. We need to explain this to students, so they don't think there's some great secret or trick to it that's eluding them. "It's bloody hard work," even for someone as experienced as me I tell them. Practice helps with the mechanics, but mostly it helps with learning to live with the discomfort of staring at a blank page, or screen, with knowing you've wrangled your thoughts before and somehow you'll do it again.
As for grammar, it should certainly be taught, but largely separately from the writing process. All writers need to wear two hats I tell my students: one is writer and the other is editor. First mine the thoughts, then go back and polish them--good grammar ensures they'll shine.
As for grammar, it should certainly be taught, but largely separately from the writing process. All writers need to wear two hats I tell my students: one is writer and the other is editor. First mine the thoughts, then go back and polish them--good grammar ensures they'll shine.
6
I believe that students who cannot write by 8th or 12th grade can be rescued. I was taught to write in prep school (admittedly academically elite) with as spare an elegance as a word fanatic like me could produce; in college, I discovered that the vast majority of students, most with exceptional intelligence, rarely wrote well.
Many courses featured a lecture hall of 200-plus students, and a distinguished professor who appeared weekly, and at the end of the lecture, exited stage left. Teaching Assistants taught the remaining coursework; and most of them were struggling to earn advanced degrees as they assigned and graded the work of 25 or 30 students. It was a pitifully ineffectual system.
Help, however was on the way. Professor Tori Haring-Smith, a Shakespeare scholar, had grown appalled by the abysmal state of college-level writing and her solution was brilliant. "The Writing Fellows Program" was founded on the conviction that, with training, already proficient student writers could provide the close reading and feedback to their peers for which the other instructors had no time. And because the peer instructors themselves improved their own writing, it was a win-win situation. With such notable success, peer writing fellow programs have been adopted by countless institutions. including my law school.
So... Perhaps all is not lost after all for all the grade school and high school students who have not learned how to write - yet.
Many courses featured a lecture hall of 200-plus students, and a distinguished professor who appeared weekly, and at the end of the lecture, exited stage left. Teaching Assistants taught the remaining coursework; and most of them were struggling to earn advanced degrees as they assigned and graded the work of 25 or 30 students. It was a pitifully ineffectual system.
Help, however was on the way. Professor Tori Haring-Smith, a Shakespeare scholar, had grown appalled by the abysmal state of college-level writing and her solution was brilliant. "The Writing Fellows Program" was founded on the conviction that, with training, already proficient student writers could provide the close reading and feedback to their peers for which the other instructors had no time. And because the peer instructors themselves improved their own writing, it was a win-win situation. With such notable success, peer writing fellow programs have been adopted by countless institutions. including my law school.
So... Perhaps all is not lost after all for all the grade school and high school students who have not learned how to write - yet.
4
Because adults can't write. And it's not valued in the workplace.
3
Many high school reading teachers have terrible grammatical skills. I see this all the time on their whiteboards. In many cases, an ESL or foreign language teacher can teach fundamental writing skills/ grammar rules much better than the average lit. teacher. Because of this, in many high schools, the ESL students are outscoring the American born ones on the proficiency tests and even on college essays.
6
When I was an English teacher in a Wisconsin village, a group of seniors came to me and asked me to teach them grammar. They were bound for college, a rarity in the village at that time, and somebody had convinced them they needed to know grammar to succeed in college English. I agreed to teach them diagramming, which was something I had enjoyed and thought i was good at. However, not having the time to create exercises, I used an old set of anthologies from the book closet. I would choose a passage more or less at random and we would set about identifying and diagramming the parts of speech. I found I couldn't do it! Every fairly complex sentence had ambiguities that I couldn't resolve. I realized then that the school grammar I had been taught used potted sentences that had been designed to be diagrammable, that all I had learned was close to useless. Clearly I would have helped my students more by following Dr. Hochman's lead (if it had been available then) and concentrated on helping the students craft good sentences.
4
Thank you for illustrating that the problem lies with the teachers' lack of skill.
PS: there is no such thing as syntaxical "ambiguity", unless you are using "sentences" written by today's students as templates.
PS: there is no such thing as syntaxical "ambiguity", unless you are using "sentences" written by today's students as templates.
I analyze language as a career and adverbs are what stump me each time. There are so many adverbs! I felt bad about this until I heard an expert in my field admit she often had to look up which words were adverbs too. So don't be so hard on yourself--grammar is harder than basic diagramming.
If it were never uncertain what modifies what in a sentence, it would not be the case that a large percentage of the uses of "whom" (even in the NYT) are questionable if not demonstrably wrong.
Some of the comments written here could benefit from a process given little attention: proofreading. Even in the NYTimes digital edition errors are slipping in every day now which could be eliminated by a writer or editor re-reading the passages in question. Emails I receive are notorious for not having been proofread before being sent. Even the best writing can be sabotaged by carelessless in proofreading the finished product.
8
"clarelessless"
I assume this was a test of sorts.
I assume this was a test of sorts.
If "carelessless" was a test, what was "clarelessless"?
The kids can't write because they don't read.
10
If the "personal voice" is illiterate, who will read it? Nobody.
5
Based on my personal experience during the first 12 years of education in rural Illinois, I would say that kids can't write because they are not required to write, unfortunately. That was certainly my experience, but college changed all that, fortunately.
My first semester in college English class was the most painful experience I ever had as a student. The agony was attributable to the fact that I could not fulfill the writing requirements for the class, and the result was a failing semester grade. Will never forget that humiliation, one that I would have never experienced had I learned to write prior to college. My fortunes eventually changed, thanks to some university professors that went the "extra mile," providing much needed tutoring services after class, and William Strunk's Elements of Style.
When doing work on a graduate degree, I began faithfully reading The New Yorker magazine and everything William Zinsser wrote about writing. The magazine and Zinsser taught me a great deal about writing, and I eventually gained the skills and confidence needed to write a coherent thesis required for a graduate degree as well as a series of articles for several newspapers.
All that past experience has persuaded me that the message of William Zinsser's book Writing to Learn should be implemented for all students, beginning in the early grades and continued thru college, and applied to the study of every subject--math, science, history, etc.--and not solely to English.
My first semester in college English class was the most painful experience I ever had as a student. The agony was attributable to the fact that I could not fulfill the writing requirements for the class, and the result was a failing semester grade. Will never forget that humiliation, one that I would have never experienced had I learned to write prior to college. My fortunes eventually changed, thanks to some university professors that went the "extra mile," providing much needed tutoring services after class, and William Strunk's Elements of Style.
When doing work on a graduate degree, I began faithfully reading The New Yorker magazine and everything William Zinsser wrote about writing. The magazine and Zinsser taught me a great deal about writing, and I eventually gained the skills and confidence needed to write a coherent thesis required for a graduate degree as well as a series of articles for several newspapers.
All that past experience has persuaded me that the message of William Zinsser's book Writing to Learn should be implemented for all students, beginning in the early grades and continued thru college, and applied to the study of every subject--math, science, history, etc.--and not solely to English.
8
Oh great. Just what we need. A future generation ensuring another idiot in the White House.
31
I have noticed that the liberal side of the aisle usually has to use words like "idiot". While an independent, I try to discus, debate or just speak with some intellect on the subjects that come my way. I refrain from bashing and demeaning statements that accomplish nada, nothing. Do better.
A tweet and tart comment!
Political affiliation notwithstanding, whenever you shift a discussion from the putative subject to the behavior or etiquette of your opponent, you are guilty of ad hominem. Any disparagement of another communicator--however politely, disdainfully, or angrily stated--is still a put down. Whenever you are dissing, disrespecting, not giving someone their props, you are calling them out, not acting with propriety.
The technical term for this back-handed verbal aggression is "a dirty trick." I usually just call it balderdash and nitwittery myself. Just thought I'd pass that along. Since your likely aim is to capture the moral high ground on the cheap, I knew you'd want me to share that with the world at large.
call someone out
The technical term for this back-handed verbal aggression is "a dirty trick." I usually just call it balderdash and nitwittery myself. Just thought I'd pass that along. Since your likely aim is to capture the moral high ground on the cheap, I knew you'd want me to share that with the world at large.
call someone out
2
I took to writing like a fish to water. I've always had a knack for writing creatively and enjoyed it. Going by that high schooler's sentence, I think I've taken the ability to write a complete sentence and competently express myself in writing for granted far too long. I had it figured out by the end of first grade and assumed everyone else had figured it out too. I can't imagine going through life without being able to write properly.
I'm kind of appalled that we can't manage to teach kids an extremely fundamental means of communication in this society. This is just another reason the future looks bleaker than ever.
I'm kind of appalled that we can't manage to teach kids an extremely fundamental means of communication in this society. This is just another reason the future looks bleaker than ever.
3
The same type of debate persists concerning math, with some advocating memorization of basics and others insisting that it's most important to understand the underlying concepts. Both! But, given a choice, all children eventually must simply know that 4x6=42, and how to solve a long division problem, whether or not they understand why.
In writing education, a hybrid approach encouraging free expression in first drafts -- followed by rigorous editing -- seemed to work well for my kids. Traditional rote learning, including spelling lists and diagramming sentences, is very helpful. English is complicated and you can't pick up all the rules just by reading. In the long run, some of that old-fashioned worksheet teaching provided a solid foundation.
In writing education, a hybrid approach encouraging free expression in first drafts -- followed by rigorous editing -- seemed to work well for my kids. Traditional rote learning, including spelling lists and diagramming sentences, is very helpful. English is complicated and you can't pick up all the rules just by reading. In the long run, some of that old-fashioned worksheet teaching provided a solid foundation.
2
Unless math has changed dramatically, 4x6=24, not 42.
4
Um, that's 4x6=24.
1
Er...4x6=42?
Writing and reading well is the result of practice, practice and practice. It is common sense applied to every thing we learn. It has to begin in the first stage of learning.
2
In my junior year in high school (1961) we had to write "precision themes," where a single grammatical error would subtract a full letter from your grade. We were taught from a style-book (whose name I forget) that was a cousin of Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style," although not quite so pithy. We had learned to diagram sentences long before, in elementary school.
Since then, I have written many pages in various genres for public consumption and have edited many pages of others' work. I am forever grateful that I had been subjected to such a rigorous regimen and that my teacher had demanded excellence.
Since then, I have written many pages in various genres for public consumption and have edited many pages of others' work. I am forever grateful that I had been subjected to such a rigorous regimen and that my teacher had demanded excellence.
7
I feel that Americans would like to think that, as a country, we collectively value education. The AMA is run by doctors, and lawyers run the law boards. But who runs or school boards? Our country's Secretary of Education has a business degree! It's frustrating to read stories like this one where experts in learning clearly see the issues and answers. But we are apparently not a country that feels that leaders in the field of education should be running our educational programs. If education is a problem in our country then why are we allowing amateurs solve it. I wonder how insulting it must be for our most brilliant teachers to take their marching orders from people who have never taught or even taken a course in education. Kids can learn to write and there is a way to make it happen. But is our country's culture of education even remotely equipped of doing what needs to be done?
3
Learning how to write is a complex skill. it depends on developing a wide vocabulary, a wide background in the reading of good literature, an exposure to adults who speak well, and a lot of hard work for both students and teachers.
Diagramming sentences, practicing grammer skills, are all aids. But fundamentally, you learn to write by writing and letting yourself be edited.
As a science teacher, I tried to do my part by requiring writing assignments of my students. These included lab reports weekly,
short essays about a specific topic, a term paper, and essay questions on tests. This required a lot of time for me to grade, much more than was required from a multiple choice test. I could do this well since I was not overloaded with students. Once you get over 22 in the class it becomes difficult.
I am suggesting that learning to write is also a problem of time. If teachers are overloaded it is not going to be easily done.
Diagramming sentences, practicing grammer skills, are all aids. But fundamentally, you learn to write by writing and letting yourself be edited.
As a science teacher, I tried to do my part by requiring writing assignments of my students. These included lab reports weekly,
short essays about a specific topic, a term paper, and essay questions on tests. This required a lot of time for me to grade, much more than was required from a multiple choice test. I could do this well since I was not overloaded with students. Once you get over 22 in the class it becomes difficult.
I am suggesting that learning to write is also a problem of time. If teachers are overloaded it is not going to be easily done.
2
Thank you, Ms Gray, for making the connection to class size and teachers' workloads. Although it's only one factor among many, I agree it's a central one, if secondary to the fact that writing is not valued in our culture generally.
I had a career teaching writing in independent high schools. 18 students was the maximum class size where I last taught; full-time teachers had four classes, and classes met every other day, so on any given night 36 papers was the most I had to grade. Averaging 10 minutes per paper (which I rarely could), that's still six hours of work. Small wonder, then, that generally students don't get many writing assignments— I know that some public school teachers see over 100 students every day. The weaker the writing in a paper, the longer it takes to grade, if the teacher corrects the paper at a sentence level. I did that, as well as comment on the content.
The better student readers were invariably the better writers. Every year I encountered a few students with surprisingly weak reading skills, given their high overall GPA's. Often they clearly had not been taught proper phonics.
Grammar and basic writing mechanics do not have to be creativity-killers; creativity and self-expression can be recognized and appreciated, even as sentences are corrected. Of course, how well students can think is limited by the words they know. Orwell has taught us that.
I had a career teaching writing in independent high schools. 18 students was the maximum class size where I last taught; full-time teachers had four classes, and classes met every other day, so on any given night 36 papers was the most I had to grade. Averaging 10 minutes per paper (which I rarely could), that's still six hours of work. Small wonder, then, that generally students don't get many writing assignments— I know that some public school teachers see over 100 students every day. The weaker the writing in a paper, the longer it takes to grade, if the teacher corrects the paper at a sentence level. I did that, as well as comment on the content.
The better student readers were invariably the better writers. Every year I encountered a few students with surprisingly weak reading skills, given their high overall GPA's. Often they clearly had not been taught proper phonics.
Grammar and basic writing mechanics do not have to be creativity-killers; creativity and self-expression can be recognized and appreciated, even as sentences are corrected. Of course, how well students can think is limited by the words they know. Orwell has taught us that.
When your schools are directed by a political climate where the only value they have is the result of a color-in-the-circle test, the only lessons teachers are allowed to teach are the "what-is-the-correct-answer?" variety. Grammar lessons are delivered in short, one-lesson-fits-the-bill soundbites. Using these government-ordered programs does not allow the teacher to reteach or reinforce the skill until weeks (even months) later, if at all. After almost two decades of this nonsense of NOT allowing teachers to have thoughtful interactions with their students, those missing skills should not be a surprise. Teachers need to discuss student's writing with them and allow them to master designated age-appropriate grammar skills in order for more complex skills to be scaffolded upon them. The government mandated mastery out of existence beginning with No Child Left Behind. Get the politicians out of the classroom and let the teachers do what THEY know how to do - well, at least the old-timers who are still hanging in there. Sadly, too many of the new teacher recruits came and left due to the unreasonable demands made upon them.
1
Kids can easily learn to write once they learn that grammar and rules will set them free. Once a student catches on to basic grammar and common sense rules of style, they can edit and improve their own work, and they can see the difference. The best tool for teaching basic grammar is the slimmest, but mightiest, of volumes: The Elements of Style, by Strunk and White. The other bit that helps to make a good writer is reading a lot and exposure to great writing. It also doesn't hurt to be read to as a young child; that gives a child a far richer vocabulary than if they just hear dialogue from the tube; they also get a richer inner life and a deep understanding of the storytelling process. Schools can only do so much, parents can start by reading to the kids. Remember, too, the quality of literature kids are exposed to is important. Abe Lincoln had an impoverished childhood, no formal schooling, but he had the family Bible and scrounged all the books he could find from friends and neighbors.
3
Focus on the fundamentals of grammar and writing began to be relegated to elective status if not entirely eliminated by the late 1960's. My public school education was far inferior to a sibling who graduated a mere six years earlier from the same California school system . I'm still grappling with grammar and had it not been for three excellent community college teachers who improved my writing proficiency I would have been woefully unprepared to formulate a term paper much less meet the standard of writing expected at UC Berkeley where I enrolled in graduate level literature classes as a sophomore. As we continue to undermine, underfund, and devalue our Public Schools the rise of Social Media error ridden English is fast becoming the 'lingua franca' in America.
3
Most people of a certain age that I know think that diagramming sentences gave them a better understanding of how to construct sentences and use proper grammar.
5
Learning a foreign language leads to a better understanding of grammar and one's own language. I probably learned more from studying Latin and German than I ever did in English class.
9
Many comments reflect my thoughts on this subject, and they have been given the 'thumbs up' accordingly. But this subject angers me so much that I am adding my comment as reinforcement! There is a natural progression to good writing and it may end with 'free writing' but it certainly doesn't begin there. Why is it seemingly a mystery that a foundation in the English language and sentence structure and verb tense conjugation and other mechanics *must* be taught and learned. Dumbing- down curricula is our greatest enemy.
6
Developing real skills requires real effort.
3
The collapse of written expression in this culture is a tragedy of historic proportions. Kids can't write because teachers can't write. The few kids who choose to become teachers in turn fail the next generation of students and the cycle continues anew. We need a massive effort to re-educate teachers in the basics of English mechanics. Forget articulate expression--that can come later if it ever does. We're to the point where freshmen prose even at the Ivy level is often little more than a limp and inchoate mess.
3
Look to the right of the article you have just read. What do you see here? comments, lots of comments written in generally articulate and mostly intelligible sentences. More people are writing, trying to express themselves, becoming a part of the conversation than ever in the history of humankind. They are drawn to a forum that has not existed for very long. It is not so much a tragedy as it is an astonishing advance in human communication.
Grammar takes care of itself. It is almost completely unconscious. To study language as a thing/an object of study is to begin to articulate, to put in words so many things you didn't know you knew. Simple things like how to form a yes/no question are discoverable through observation. If we had to put sentences together out of elements learned by rule, we would fail. It is too complex. The best analogy would be having to learn physiology before you could breathe or digest your lunch.
The tragedy, if there is one, is the ever increasing repetition of sincerely believed but utterly false facts in the world waiting out there to be discovered.
Grammar takes care of itself. It is almost completely unconscious. To study language as a thing/an object of study is to begin to articulate, to put in words so many things you didn't know you knew. Simple things like how to form a yes/no question are discoverable through observation. If we had to put sentences together out of elements learned by rule, we would fail. It is too complex. The best analogy would be having to learn physiology before you could breathe or digest your lunch.
The tragedy, if there is one, is the ever increasing repetition of sincerely believed but utterly false facts in the world waiting out there to be discovered.
I have two sons (not that long outta college) who who do not work in traditional communication fields: One is an Apple Engineer in Cupertino. The other a bond trader in NYC.
They both excelled in math as youngsters, but every summer we worked on writing essays every week, 'cause I knew regardless of what careers they chose it was critical to be able to concisely and logically communicate and document their ideas. As I told my boys -good writing is mostly about organizing your thoughts coherently.
Today their 14-year old younger sister, adopted when they were in high school, complains about having to write an essay every Friday during the summer, based on various writing prompts I provide.
But if you ask her how to write an essay--she will tell you right off: You first write a thesis statement that consists of your opinion, and include 5-6 main ideas that match body paragraphs. And oh yeah-you gotta have a conclusion.
Come this Friday, she's be writing an essay about why Golden Retrievers would make such good pets. 'Cause that topic is near and dear to her heart. And oh by the way, hopefully she'll one day be as good a writer as her two big bros, who are independent, successful sons.
They both excelled in math as youngsters, but every summer we worked on writing essays every week, 'cause I knew regardless of what careers they chose it was critical to be able to concisely and logically communicate and document their ideas. As I told my boys -good writing is mostly about organizing your thoughts coherently.
Today their 14-year old younger sister, adopted when they were in high school, complains about having to write an essay every Friday during the summer, based on various writing prompts I provide.
But if you ask her how to write an essay--she will tell you right off: You first write a thesis statement that consists of your opinion, and include 5-6 main ideas that match body paragraphs. And oh yeah-you gotta have a conclusion.
Come this Friday, she's be writing an essay about why Golden Retrievers would make such good pets. 'Cause that topic is near and dear to her heart. And oh by the way, hopefully she'll one day be as good a writer as her two big bros, who are independent, successful sons.
4
I went to one of the worst public schools in California. One teacher graded by the weight of the finished paper rather than by the actual content. I graduated from high school unable to write a complete sentence. Thank goodness for the local community college. The remedial English teacher taught me what I should've learned years earlier. Also, editors are a godsend!
I have a great idea! Let's try to teach kids to write using 'worksheets'! Let's force them to read and write by or in kindergarten so all energy is placed on encoding/decoding tasks that their brains aren't ready for. Let's not nurture their sense of narrative and story telling and creativity. Let's prevent them from expressing themselves with their physical bodies, and separate them from felt experience. Let's sit them at desks and strip them of Amy joy in learning and language and life.
Maybe we can return to the days of play and joy and creativity for our young children. Tell them stories. Let them enact their own dramas. The drill and kill approach to education has been horribly detrimental to kids over at least 20 years. It must change.
Maybe we can return to the days of play and joy and creativity for our young children. Tell them stories. Let them enact their own dramas. The drill and kill approach to education has been horribly detrimental to kids over at least 20 years. It must change.
4
As a teacher I couldn't disagree more.
Unfortunately there are too many people in education who share your point of view and they are the ones that set the agenda.
Unfortunately there are too many people in education who share your point of view and they are the ones that set the agenda.
3
I have not seen much evidence that the current trend in education is creativity. I do think writing skills are worked on better than when I was in school--my recent graduate will go to college knowing how to write a proper essay--but my kids are at IB schools so I am not sure if that's because of the IB curriculum or the state curriculum. I do know that having to take "AR" tests on books has sucked the joy of reading out of all three of my kids.
In truth the prison, into which we doom
Ourselves, no prison is: and hence for me,
In sundry moods, ’twas pastime to be bound
Within the Sonnet’s scanty plot of ground;
Pleased if some Souls (for such there needs must be)
Who have felt the weight of too much liberty,
Should find brief solace there, as I have found.
Wordsworth's sonnets aside, kids need to be taught strict composition structure. If I were a teacher, I would hand out a hard-copy template of the 5 paragraph essay, with blanks to fill in by hand. Starting off, I'd even have the template include introductory language and transition language, and have the kids simply complete the sentences. Once the 5 paragraph essay is mastered, kids can write in whatever form they chose. No doubt the results of that free-form writing would be clearer and more expressive because of the discipline that precedes it. Even Picasso was a classically trained as a painter before creating Cubism.
Ourselves, no prison is: and hence for me,
In sundry moods, ’twas pastime to be bound
Within the Sonnet’s scanty plot of ground;
Pleased if some Souls (for such there needs must be)
Who have felt the weight of too much liberty,
Should find brief solace there, as I have found.
Wordsworth's sonnets aside, kids need to be taught strict composition structure. If I were a teacher, I would hand out a hard-copy template of the 5 paragraph essay, with blanks to fill in by hand. Starting off, I'd even have the template include introductory language and transition language, and have the kids simply complete the sentences. Once the 5 paragraph essay is mastered, kids can write in whatever form they chose. No doubt the results of that free-form writing would be clearer and more expressive because of the discipline that precedes it. Even Picasso was a classically trained as a painter before creating Cubism.
1
You're all wrong. You can teach anyone how to lego together words to contrive sentences and get their point across. You cannot "teach" someone how to find their inner voice and write anymore than you can "teach" the average person how to run the sub-four minute mile. These feats and expressions are God given talents doled out in various amounts and degrees amongst us mortals. Penmanship and cursive writing haven't been taught in elementary schools in decades. I seriously doubt that you can find more than a handful of stores across the country that are devoted to writing instruments, fine stationary and paper. We've moved away from the art of writing into the land of tweets, emojis and IM's. We've lost our ability to take a deep think and express it.
3
It's quite obvious, really. Kids can't "write" because they type all the time. But more importantly, they don't read and therefore, cannot speak properly. The three things are tied together.
I had a history teacher in my first year of college who repeatedly told us: "You are the hearing and seeing generation. If you don't read, you won't learn." This was 1985, and I have since modified this to: "If you don't read you won't learn nearly as much as you would otherwise" because, let's face it, there are LOTS of people out there who don't read anything other than the sports page of their local newspaper, if that, and despite this they have well-paying jobs they have learned all they "need" to know in order to do their job. And that's enough for them. And those are the anti-intellectual values they pass down.
I had a history teacher in my first year of college who repeatedly told us: "You are the hearing and seeing generation. If you don't read, you won't learn." This was 1985, and I have since modified this to: "If you don't read you won't learn nearly as much as you would otherwise" because, let's face it, there are LOTS of people out there who don't read anything other than the sports page of their local newspaper, if that, and despite this they have well-paying jobs they have learned all they "need" to know in order to do their job. And that's enough for them. And those are the anti-intellectual values they pass down.
5
Why can't kids write? Here's a better question. Why are we graduating kids from high school who can't compose a coherent sentence?
6
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Most writing is done to efficiently and effectively communicate ideas, grammar is essential for those goals. Most elementary, middle school, and high school teachers understand this. Unfortunately, education policy and the curriculum itself is largely created by university professors, skilled experts in literature and advanced writing, who seem to be looking to inspire future poets, novelists, and masters of literature. Our curriculum should not emphasize these things. Similar trends happen in math. Experts loath memorization, mechanics, etc, and feel the curriculum should emphasize using math creatively or solving real world problems. Meanwhile, our university engineering and math departments are almost entirely composed of individuals from foreign nations who learned through rote and still use the abacus. Not sure this issue has any hope of being solved.
5
Last semester I asked my class of college students if they had ever read a novel for pleasure, not because it was required. No one had. Then I asked how many had been required to read a novel in high school. Only two out of 33 students had. I noticed that the syllabus for a literature class had no novels or plays as assigned reading, only excerpted passages from short stories, or short poems. When I questioned the professor she said that you can't get students to read a novel, that they won't do it. I came to realize that reading is painful for students, because they can't read. They have to learn to read before they can write. They don't recognize their deficiencies, and think everything is just fine as long as they can text.
11
1. Kids can't write because we don't ask them to. ATM least in my experience, the teachers aren't grading much or requiring rewrites.
2. Everything my son learned about English grammar he learned in German class.
2. Everything my son learned about English grammar he learned in German class.
2
Kids can't write!
How are we supposed to fix this when corporations, television and pop singers make misspelling look edgy and cool?!
They encourage misspelling!
How are we supposed to fix this when corporations, television and pop singers make misspelling look edgy and cool?!
They encourage misspelling!
2
You cannot build a sound house without a foundation. That is what grammar is to writing, be it inspired or not.
6
We all know why education is dumbed down. There is an agenda in this country. Isn't it racist to focus on "English"? Western literature is racist too. Or sexist for that matter. Let's make sure everyone feels ok in the class room. If that means the lowest common denominator even better, so be it! And certainly don't grade or fire teachers. That would aggravate the unions! And don't give out awards unless everyone gets one please. No one should ever feel left out.
5
Though not the sole explanation, I'd wager that plagiarism is also a big issue. It is just so easy to copy and paste. Bad writing begets more bad writing if it is copied and proliferated. For some, the temptation to plagiarize is simply too great. Writing is difficult, and kids are under more pressure than ever to achieve.
The idea that mastering the technical aspects of writing stifles creativity is completely asinine. Quite the opposite. Technical mastery frees one to be infinitely creative, because every creative endeavour (writing, painting, music, cooking, architecture, sculpture, engineering, etc.) relies on basic physical structures as a common point of reference. Creativity, as much as we might like to think so, does not come from the aether.
The idea that mastering the technical aspects of writing stifles creativity is completely asinine. Quite the opposite. Technical mastery frees one to be infinitely creative, because every creative endeavour (writing, painting, music, cooking, architecture, sculpture, engineering, etc.) relies on basic physical structures as a common point of reference. Creativity, as much as we might like to think so, does not come from the aether.
3
Why kids cant right . Why kids cant write. Good grief the the word cant should look like this CAN'T. Note the hyphen between the letter N and the letter T !!!!
It's an apostrophe. I learned that in English. We called it Language Arts back then.
Kids can't write because they don't read. Burn your televisions. Terminate your social media. Pick up a copy of the Sunday NYT, and don't move until you're numb.
The movie quote was a bonus. De nada.
Kids can't write because they don't read. Burn your televisions. Terminate your social media. Pick up a copy of the Sunday NYT, and don't move until you're numb.
The movie quote was a bonus. De nada.
3
Ir's not a hyphen.
1
I've been saying it now for nearly 30 years. Blow up all the schools of education that grant ED's or PhD's in education. Teach grammar (and spelling), by all means. A student interested in using language will want to use it effectively. But, make sure they read, read, read, read, and then discuss/think/write about what they have read (ain't English wonderful, past tense and present spelled the same?). Those who are going on to be part of the social system will know how to write competently about what they are thinking within the milieu they have chosen. Those few who truly need to express themselves in written form will have the technical part down pat so that they can write about their ideas easily, maybe even writing best sellers. And all the PhD's and ED's muddying the educational waters with their ever changing ideas will be slinging burgers at McDonalds, where they belong.
1
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Most writing is done to efficiently and effectively communicate ideas, grammar is essential for those goals. Most elementary, middle school, and high school teachers understand this. Unfortunately, education policy and the curriculum itself is largely created by university professors, skilled experts in literature and advanced writing, who seem to be looking to inspire future poets, novelists, and masters of literature. Our curriculum should not emphasize these things. Similar trends happen in math. Experts loath memorization, mechanics, etc, and feel the curriculum should emphasize using math creatively or solving real world problems. Meanwhile, our engineering and math departments are almost entirely composed of individuals from foreign nations who teach by wrote and still use the abacus. Not sure this issue has any hope of being solved.
1
I realize this article is about writing or "why kids can't write" but the math of it all adds up to this simple equation: reading = writing. Over the weekend, the NYT ran an article about if you want boys to read, give them books about sex and watch them take off reading. Maybe the reason kids can't write is because they aren't reading anything THEY want to read. Poetry, American history and Earth science is fine for class, but what about AFTER school, AFTER the homework is done, and BEFORE bed? Give kids something they would like to know more about, like sex and half the battle is won. It's a start and isn't that the first step in this entire process - getting their noses in a book and learn about something they really like? Just a thought from someone who enjoys reading AND writing.
3
I text a lot on my phone. A lot! To friends, family, and grand kids_Mostly adults tho. Note the grammatical shorthand in my phrases, But it's clear to you what I mean, But, most texts I receive need to be instantly corrected grammatically by me to myself, to decipher the intended message. Why? It is what this excellent article is about. Run ons without periods to end a thought or to begin another, plus no commas are almost always a cinch for writer/proofreader me to unravel , but only half the time. The public texters have taken on writing, kids/adults alike. The kids may stifle their yet to be learned grammar skills into adulthood; and the adults are endlessly reinforcing the grammar/punctuation they never learned and the cat is out of the bag. Truthfully, tho, I cant help but point it out and teach some of them in the process. God forbid I text you're for your accidentally. And I'll usually correct a friend - telling them their slip is showing with that same glaring error, interchanging the homonyms. without understanding that the former is a contraction. But I do love texting, for myself , and for all of the above . Its hopeful if anything.
First, make sure they read a lot.
3
..did learning to write the conventional way stifle Sam Shepard's voice?
3
What a crock!!! You can imagine a house in your head but you can't build it unless you know how to use a hammer. Students -- of anything! -- must learn technique before creativity. The best way to begin learning how to write is to read early and often, and to read good material. The upper grades are too late to learn how to write well.
5
to muche Tyme spend on Math. Not enuff on how to right.
1
My two suggestions: First, bring back diagramming sentences (who knows maybe an app for that). Second, require at least two years of Latin. Studying a foreign language requires one to think about the structure of their native language and nothing improves your understanding of words as much as Latin.
4
The only aim of writing is communication. Without an audience, how can you focus your own point of view? You don't like the slangy, compressed style of social-media writing? I'd argue that it serves both author and audience exceptionally well. (When I text, I sound like the retired English teacher that I am.)
As an English teacher, I spent hours reading student work and commenting in the margins or via attached notes. Over the course of a term or a year, I developed individual dialogues with students. I believe I helped many write of them write better.
I don't want to depreciate the value of understanding grammar. It's important. The critical piece, however, is for the teacher to serve as a receptive, knowledgeable audience.
I have been negatively impressed, in my exurban, highly rated school district, by the perfunctory feedback my children receive, even on major assignments. Sometimes the feedback is weeks late. What was the point, for the student, of completing this assignment? Only to create a hook to hang a grade on.
Having students work in groups to provide peer-to-peer feedback is usually a pointless, feel-good exercise that serves mostly to justify the teacher's relative absence in the process.
The critical role of the teacher is to read the students' work as a creative, authoritative audience. Absent this, the various techniques this article lays out are simply that -- techniques -- and the entire purpose of writing anything is defeated.
As an English teacher, I spent hours reading student work and commenting in the margins or via attached notes. Over the course of a term or a year, I developed individual dialogues with students. I believe I helped many write of them write better.
I don't want to depreciate the value of understanding grammar. It's important. The critical piece, however, is for the teacher to serve as a receptive, knowledgeable audience.
I have been negatively impressed, in my exurban, highly rated school district, by the perfunctory feedback my children receive, even on major assignments. Sometimes the feedback is weeks late. What was the point, for the student, of completing this assignment? Only to create a hook to hang a grade on.
Having students work in groups to provide peer-to-peer feedback is usually a pointless, feel-good exercise that serves mostly to justify the teacher's relative absence in the process.
The critical role of the teacher is to read the students' work as a creative, authoritative audience. Absent this, the various techniques this article lays out are simply that -- techniques -- and the entire purpose of writing anything is defeated.
3
The product of an incredibly staid all-boys school curriculum immersed in the formulaic/formal model: intense diagramming, worksheets, 5-paragraph themes, New Criticism, I don't think my understanding of grammar came so much from my English instruction, but from two required years of Latin.
Now almost twenty years into my own teaching career, I like focused free writing in preparation for a subsequent discussion, but there's not real literary merit there. My students submit their best work when the stakes are low, they are mindful that they have an obligation to their reader to be interesting--perhaps even entertaining, and I allow for and insist on time for revision (ideally more than one revision).
High stakes writing is usually terrible writing. The pressure usually induces procrastination which ultimately precludes time for revision (which is the really fun part of writing, I think). This goes for long-form papers, exams, APs, and standardized tests. I've always been partial to the Educational Records Bureau's Writing Assessment Program because it takes place during two hours divided over two days and it encourages planning, drafting and revision, and the rubric is pretty comprehensive.
Good writing, in fiction, non-fiction, and in advancing an argument, is good storytelling.
Now almost twenty years into my own teaching career, I like focused free writing in preparation for a subsequent discussion, but there's not real literary merit there. My students submit their best work when the stakes are low, they are mindful that they have an obligation to their reader to be interesting--perhaps even entertaining, and I allow for and insist on time for revision (ideally more than one revision).
High stakes writing is usually terrible writing. The pressure usually induces procrastination which ultimately precludes time for revision (which is the really fun part of writing, I think). This goes for long-form papers, exams, APs, and standardized tests. I've always been partial to the Educational Records Bureau's Writing Assessment Program because it takes place during two hours divided over two days and it encourages planning, drafting and revision, and the rubric is pretty comprehensive.
Good writing, in fiction, non-fiction, and in advancing an argument, is good storytelling.
4
Studies show that teaching writing through grammar is not appropriate or helpful. It has never a good idea. The English language came before people were aware of grammar and can't be controlled by it. The study of English grammar isn't complete and probably never will be. Writing is taught by reading. The best readers are the best writers. Teaching writing by itself doesn't make people better writers. A huge problem in schools right now is that students are required to read and write above their ability level making it difficult. Papers seem to be written only to be graded by the teacher and for no other reason. Students need a reason for writing and to be inspired. Many academic papers are horribly written by university students and the required method of conferring information in writing is poorly established. When reading and writing are highly regarded as something true ly useful, not to be dissected as if parts of speech and grammar were everything maybe people will get better at writing. Meaning and conveyonce of meaning will be key and smaller parts of writing will come into play and discussion.
3
I'm severely conflicted about Dr. Hochman's approach. If I had had to fill out worksheets like the ones described in the article, I would have been MISERABLE. But then, I was a kid who devoured books and basically learned how to write via osmosis (and later, with the help of insightful feedback). But not everyone has that opportunity, or the solid foundation I had with my home environment full of books. I think a combination approach is usually best, but one thing this article leaves out is that reading well IS essential to writing well. There's no way around it. How do you get kids to love reading, to grow an instinct for putting words together? Who knows.
1
I teach English as a foreign language. My goal is for students to be able to reliably translate their mother tongue into English with no loss in sensibility.
Whether or not my students choose to apply English creatively or practically is their choice. Regardless, focusing on grammar does not stifle creativity, it supplements it! In fact, my belief is that a great writer--whether they be fiction or non-fiction, is someone who can organize and express complex ideas in a way in which the reader can find relatable.
Grammar and creativity are not on opposing ends of a spectrum, as ever-increasing grammar is required to accurately form and describe the ever-increasing complexity of ideas.
If you want to increase creativity, constantly increase the students' vocabulary. One of the largest frustrations among my students is that they can't say what they want--they don't know how! They need to know words with very specific functionality, and to be inspired to use them. They should be encouraged to write with their own 'flavour', while simuteansously preserving good grammar. Otherwise they'll sound like Donald Trump.
Also, for the idealistic teachers that are dying inside because they wish their students would be more creative (like themselves)--stop trying to control their use of language! Whether they are creative writers or scientifically-oriented writers is subject to their personality.
Whether or not my students choose to apply English creatively or practically is their choice. Regardless, focusing on grammar does not stifle creativity, it supplements it! In fact, my belief is that a great writer--whether they be fiction or non-fiction, is someone who can organize and express complex ideas in a way in which the reader can find relatable.
Grammar and creativity are not on opposing ends of a spectrum, as ever-increasing grammar is required to accurately form and describe the ever-increasing complexity of ideas.
If you want to increase creativity, constantly increase the students' vocabulary. One of the largest frustrations among my students is that they can't say what they want--they don't know how! They need to know words with very specific functionality, and to be inspired to use them. They should be encouraged to write with their own 'flavour', while simuteansously preserving good grammar. Otherwise they'll sound like Donald Trump.
Also, for the idealistic teachers that are dying inside because they wish their students would be more creative (like themselves)--stop trying to control their use of language! Whether they are creative writers or scientifically-oriented writers is subject to their personality.
2
Many comments here seem to be based on the belief that today's teachers are lazy and/or incompetent dreamers, completely unconcerned with academic rigor, who coddle students in the name of self-expression. Many decry a lack of good, old-fashioned grammar instruction.
As the article itself notes, the traditional kind of grammar instruction many of us experienced as children does not generate knowledge that transfers to student writing. Smith & Wilhelm's book Getting It Right is one good summary of the research.
Just because a teacher is not assigning fill-in-the-blank grammar worksheets or diagramming exercises does not necessarily mean that they are not teaching any grammar.
When students use their own writing as material to revise during focused lessons, targeting specific grammar or punctuation skills, their writing improves. The much-maligned free writing activities mentioned in the article are one potential source of such material.
It is true that not every teacher executes this approach skillfully, and teachers themselves need a great deal more education about best practices. Teachers also need more paid time to plan lessons, and to grade student writing in manner that goes beyond just doing triage to fix the most urgent issues.
It is also vitally important that students read more. With the vast array of entertainment options available, some students almost never read. This is an under-examined reason why their writing is poor.
As the article itself notes, the traditional kind of grammar instruction many of us experienced as children does not generate knowledge that transfers to student writing. Smith & Wilhelm's book Getting It Right is one good summary of the research.
Just because a teacher is not assigning fill-in-the-blank grammar worksheets or diagramming exercises does not necessarily mean that they are not teaching any grammar.
When students use their own writing as material to revise during focused lessons, targeting specific grammar or punctuation skills, their writing improves. The much-maligned free writing activities mentioned in the article are one potential source of such material.
It is true that not every teacher executes this approach skillfully, and teachers themselves need a great deal more education about best practices. Teachers also need more paid time to plan lessons, and to grade student writing in manner that goes beyond just doing triage to fix the most urgent issues.
It is also vitally important that students read more. With the vast array of entertainment options available, some students almost never read. This is an under-examined reason why their writing is poor.
1
Like some other commenters I taught a second language at university level. I still remember explaining what seemed an infinite number of times to a failing student in my office some important point about indirect vs direct object pronouns. She finally gave me a lost look that inspired pity despite my frustration and asked "what's a direct object"? It hadn't even occurred to me that she didn't understand that basic concept. How do people get into fairly selective universities without this basic knowledge?
In support of the argument for learning to write sentences and paragraphs before attempting glorious self-expression, I was always given Picasso as an example. Before he was a cubist, he learned to draw and use color, and he couldn't have been a cubist without the foundation training in the basics. I'm don't have the background in art to judge, but it made sense to me. You can't play around with the rules until you know them.
In support of the argument for learning to write sentences and paragraphs before attempting glorious self-expression, I was always given Picasso as an example. Before he was a cubist, he learned to draw and use color, and he couldn't have been a cubist without the foundation training in the basics. I'm don't have the background in art to judge, but it made sense to me. You can't play around with the rules until you know them.
2
**I don't have the background...... Sorry, too much editing. More proof that we need to read and re-read.
1
I have been a writer/editor for . . . .well, a long time. My children attended school but writing skills were learned at home. They diagrammed sentences, conjugated verbs and learned the parts of speech. When I asked some of their teachers why grammar was not taught in the classroom, I was told that rules stifle creativity. What nonsense! A good command of the language is the basic tool for any writer, no matter the genre.
Over the years, I have worked with professionals in various disciplines, all trying to communicate ideas to an audience. Sadly, I continue to be disheartened by the abysmal writing skills of people with impressive credentials in their chosen fields. On the other hand, I guess I shouldn't complain. These are the people who keep me in business.
And by the way, my children and grandchildren, who were similarly tortured, have all developed excellent writing skills although I still get requests to "just take a look at this" from time to time.
Over the years, I have worked with professionals in various disciplines, all trying to communicate ideas to an audience. Sadly, I continue to be disheartened by the abysmal writing skills of people with impressive credentials in their chosen fields. On the other hand, I guess I shouldn't complain. These are the people who keep me in business.
And by the way, my children and grandchildren, who were similarly tortured, have all developed excellent writing skills although I still get requests to "just take a look at this" from time to time.
8
The article comes close to but skirts the fundamental issues of race, poverty, and class. Historically, the ability to write was confined to those in power and their servants (scribes, lawyers, etc.). Literacy in our quasi-democracy often amounts to little more than basic reading and writing skills--reading instructions, filling in forms, doing elementary paperwork. Expressive writing, at least as conceptualized in the article, has been historically largely the province of elites.
Elites in the US have never been very serious about public education. Often it's little more than putting people in their place. Acquiring full literacy necessarily involves learning to think critically. And this is precisely what elites fear.
What cannot be admitted--especially in an era in which conservatives like to imagine that we live in a "post-racial" society and that the poor are to blame for their plight--is that race and class have everything to do with learning to write. The tradition-bound scolds would have us believe that the problem has to do with forming sentences or writing grammatically.
But the real problem has to do with class and culture. The best guide for teaching poor students is not Strunk and White or various equivalents, but Paolo Friere's Pedagogy of the Oppressed. So, to begin with, we need to admit that a large part of the US population is in one way or another oppressed. That would be a start.
Elites in the US have never been very serious about public education. Often it's little more than putting people in their place. Acquiring full literacy necessarily involves learning to think critically. And this is precisely what elites fear.
What cannot be admitted--especially in an era in which conservatives like to imagine that we live in a "post-racial" society and that the poor are to blame for their plight--is that race and class have everything to do with learning to write. The tradition-bound scolds would have us believe that the problem has to do with forming sentences or writing grammatically.
But the real problem has to do with class and culture. The best guide for teaching poor students is not Strunk and White or various equivalents, but Paolo Friere's Pedagogy of the Oppressed. So, to begin with, we need to admit that a large part of the US population is in one way or another oppressed. That would be a start.
5
As a high school English teacher with 28 years of experience, I found that students who read frequently outside of the school curriculum were almost always good writers. Readers are writers, pure and simple.
9
Whatever method they decide to teach, the goal should be the ability to convey one's ideas in a clear, coherent and comprehensible manner. Basic knowledge of grammar gives one the building blocks to be able to do this. This skill is useful in creative writing, business, and everyday transactions. If one doesn't have a solid knowledge of basic grammar, they are impaired and not able to express themselves effectively.
3
I studied writing with an old-fashioned teacher of composition. A lot of students hated her, because she not only insisted on correct grammar and usage but also taught us the basic rhetorical techniques and had us write essays using these techniques. "Too picky," was the most common complaint I heard from fellow students. But those of us who really wanted to write well thought very highly of her.
Even now, whenever I write something important, I imagine the late Mrs. L looking over my shoulder and saying, "That's an incomplete parallelism."
The worst weakness I have seen in student writing and in writing on the internet are lack of organization, illogical analysis, and ignorance of rhetorical techniques. Writers are practicing stream-of-consciousness writing, but their style resembles that of the current Republican president than it resembles the style of James Joyce.
You can't become a good writer--or a good actor, musician, cook, or athlete--without being exposed to the work of experts. Reading is essential, as they say. In addition, formal grammar helps students learn a style that is understood by people of every English-speaking nation and every ethnicity. Finally, studying rhetorical techniques makes students conscious of how their writing will be received.
Even now, whenever I write something important, I imagine the late Mrs. L looking over my shoulder and saying, "That's an incomplete parallelism."
The worst weakness I have seen in student writing and in writing on the internet are lack of organization, illogical analysis, and ignorance of rhetorical techniques. Writers are practicing stream-of-consciousness writing, but their style resembles that of the current Republican president than it resembles the style of James Joyce.
You can't become a good writer--or a good actor, musician, cook, or athlete--without being exposed to the work of experts. Reading is essential, as they say. In addition, formal grammar helps students learn a style that is understood by people of every English-speaking nation and every ethnicity. Finally, studying rhetorical techniques makes students conscious of how their writing will be received.
5
And right now, Mrs. L is shaking her head, because I didn't check all my parallelisms and verb agreements before hitting "submit."
2
Here in California most public school writing teachers are overworked, many having five classes with 30 or more students in each class. How can they read and mark essays, then meet with the students to explain errors, let them rewrite, and then grade those papers? The same usually goes with community college instructors whose students arrive with poor grammar skills, so there is no time to teach them all they need. Sad.
5
As someone who sometimes writes mathematics, I use "so" too much. But I would never write a sentence such as "Fractions are like decimals, so they can be used interchangeably.". Fractions and decimals can be used interchangeably in many contexts, but not because they are merely alike in some unspecified fashion. Considering a similar sentence shows how "so" is misused in the first example: "Bats are like birds, so they can be used interchangeably." "So" implies an inference, and the alikeness noted doesn't support it without more details. While teaching grammar, it is also important to teach logic.
3
Unlike medicine and some other disciplines, what I read about education suggests they haven't reached that transition point where they subject their interventions to empirical validation -- when I read about educational approaches, all I hear is that educator A advocates intervention A based on rationale A, end of story. Then later you'll hear about intervention B, but it doesn't seem to advance beyond this flavor-of-the-month litany. Am I missing something?
I grew up in foster care and barely graduated high school; I was truant from elementary school for a year and later educated in children's hospitals and institutions. I arrived at college at age 24 and learned to write by reading a lot of works of "classic" literature and eagerly seeking grammar and writing feedback from instructors. I learned even more about grammar and writing when I was required to take a foreign language. (I took French, and later Italian and Spanish.) I eventually became a published writer, earned a Ph.D. and now teach at a community college. I clearly had an aptitude for writing but I read, and I received grammar instruction, and I was forced to study other languages. These are practices fewer and fewer students arriving at my college do or receive. Free writing alone does not foster literacy and too many of my students are starving for grammar instruction and how to organize and structure their thoughts. I am shocked by how many urban, inner city students know nothing about the difference between a period and comma or what constitutes a complete sentence and what is a fragment. Our elementary and high schools in the poorest communities are passing students but failing them as human beings. Both unchecked "progressive" liberalism (with an excessive emphasis on individualism and personal expression) and conservative neoliberalism (turning education into a profit-driven busines) are to blame.
7
It amuses me that so many commenters here insist the solution is to bring back formal grammar instruction--perhaps their reading skills are as poor as the student writing skills they deride? As Goldstein notes quite plainly in the article,"...formal grammar instruction, like identifying parts of speech, doesn’t work well. In fact, research finds that students exposed to a glut of such instruction perform worse on writing assessments." Let me highlight that for all the grammar scolds out there, of which there are so, so many. WORSE.
I'm a veteran high school English teacher. Perhaps shockingly, given this article's contemptuous tone toward teachers, I also hold an MFA in writing from a highly ranked program, and a post-graduate degree in literacy education. I am irritated by the endlessly reductive nature of this debate. Writing instruction is not an either/or situation. Using the writing process in a classroom does NOT mean leaving out explicit usage and grammar instruction; but it might mean embedding that instruction within the framework of model texts, as well as the students' own work.
Do my students improve each year? Yes, measurably. Are teachers the root of this entire problem? No, they are just one part, along with poverty, and the fact that education is an incredibly low priority in this country. I mean, the president's wife plagiarizes a speech during our research paper unit and my students are supposed to understand why citation is so important? Just sayin'.
I'm a veteran high school English teacher. Perhaps shockingly, given this article's contemptuous tone toward teachers, I also hold an MFA in writing from a highly ranked program, and a post-graduate degree in literacy education. I am irritated by the endlessly reductive nature of this debate. Writing instruction is not an either/or situation. Using the writing process in a classroom does NOT mean leaving out explicit usage and grammar instruction; but it might mean embedding that instruction within the framework of model texts, as well as the students' own work.
Do my students improve each year? Yes, measurably. Are teachers the root of this entire problem? No, they are just one part, along with poverty, and the fact that education is an incredibly low priority in this country. I mean, the president's wife plagiarizes a speech during our research paper unit and my students are supposed to understand why citation is so important? Just sayin'.
16
Yes to all the suggestions: less screen time, more reading, more formal instruction in writing. My children had the benefit of a secondary education that stressed expository writing; there was no conflict between self-expression and proper expression. The sad but true result: a student at a well regarded college, my daughter was accused of handing in the same paper twice, the assumption being that she had incorporated the "first" professor's comments before handing in the paper for a related course. Naturally I was outraged but one of her former teachers pointed out to me that basically nobody can write anymore, including students at select universities, and thus her expertise was suspect.
2
"Rationality squeezes out much that is rich and juicy and fascinating." This may indeed be true and such writing would be eminently suitable to diaries or journals. However, the lack of rationality in writing jeopardizes the writers ability to communicate with others and restricts the writer to self-addressing memoirs. Rational writing makes it possible for me to understand another human being, I.e., rational writing makes written communications between people mutually comprehensible.
1
It seems as if I can read nothing without a mistake of some sort, even in The Times. While this item is not exactly an error, it is inelegant and does not parse well: ". . . unable to work effectively at a laptop, desktop or even in a paper notebook." The question is why notebook is emphasized with the use of "even." It seems every list I read today includes "even" preceding the last item. I expect any day to see our flag described as "red, white and even blue." It demonstrates how little people listen to what they write or say.
1
The key phrase here is, "At every level, students benefit from clear feedback on their writing." Teachers need TIME to give appropriate feedback. The local high school where I live expects English teachers to teach upwards of 180 students a day.
You do the math: 180 essays, or responses, or journal entries, or narratives a week = how many pages of reading? 360 pages? 720 pages? If the teacher carefully provides GOOD feedback about the students' clarity, grammar, voice, unity, and content, how many hours of reading and assessment is that?
When I taught English (36 years) it took me all weekend and most of my week nights to complete this task for my students. Although "prep" time was allotted during my work day for this, I found that most of that time was caught up in meetings, clerical duties or communication with parents.
We won't have good writers until we allot enough time for teachers to actually provide appropriate feedback to students. The English teachers I know who are successful with their students either commit most of their personal time to do it, or teach in private schools with student loads of under 75.
The best writing instruction is going largely unpaid, and if we are unwilling to pay good instructors for the time it takes to provide good feedback, nothing will change.
You do the math: 180 essays, or responses, or journal entries, or narratives a week = how many pages of reading? 360 pages? 720 pages? If the teacher carefully provides GOOD feedback about the students' clarity, grammar, voice, unity, and content, how many hours of reading and assessment is that?
When I taught English (36 years) it took me all weekend and most of my week nights to complete this task for my students. Although "prep" time was allotted during my work day for this, I found that most of that time was caught up in meetings, clerical duties or communication with parents.
We won't have good writers until we allot enough time for teachers to actually provide appropriate feedback to students. The English teachers I know who are successful with their students either commit most of their personal time to do it, or teach in private schools with student loads of under 75.
The best writing instruction is going largely unpaid, and if we are unwilling to pay good instructors for the time it takes to provide good feedback, nothing will change.
10
There was a time when children attended "grammar" school. The label was not taken casually. Students spent hours practicing their script writing skills, often beginning with long rows of O's and L's. Generations pointed with pride to the callus on their middle fingers that appeared as a result of their determined efforts. Later, they learned to distinguish the parts of speech and the parts of a sentence, then advanced to doing sentence diagrams with those delightful hanging prepositional phrases. There are no longer holes in desktops there to accommodate ink wells into which steel-nibbed pens are immersed, no desk blotters, no ink-stained hands. How quaint. How irrelevant.
Yet, good grammar is still a class marker. Students in prep schools and private academies speak and write a standard dialect to which in this country, as in all others, the upwardly mobile are steered to aspire. Once political correctness rears its ugly head, that process is seen as unnecessary and a form of cruel and unusual punishment. As a result, millions of grammar texts are gathering dust in school book rooms while language mastery, an important subset of mastery in general, remains the province of the privileged or the unusually gifted.
Yet, good grammar is still a class marker. Students in prep schools and private academies speak and write a standard dialect to which in this country, as in all others, the upwardly mobile are steered to aspire. Once political correctness rears its ugly head, that process is seen as unnecessary and a form of cruel and unusual punishment. As a result, millions of grammar texts are gathering dust in school book rooms while language mastery, an important subset of mastery in general, remains the province of the privileged or the unusually gifted.
6
More than 30 years ago, when my daughter was in elementary school, she would come home from school with a list of misspelled words that her teachers had written on the blackboard that particular day. And these were the very teachers who were giving spelling tests... What does drive me insane is college freshman "writing" (English) courses where students are told "Just write how you feel." Then we have the "rhetoric" courses where students have to give a few minute talk, with no instructor correcting their grammar or teaching them to speak without mumbling or standing properly, in other words, how to make a presentation that is authoritative.
2
“Well Machines are good but they take people jobs like if they don’t know how to use it they get fired.
I understand what is being said above-- better than my peers in education.
“We will agendize innovative communities for our 21st Century learners.”
“We will cultivate competency-based technologies through the experiential based learning process.”
"Incomprehensible jargon is the hallmark of a profession."
-- Kingman Brewster
I understand what is being said above-- better than my peers in education.
“We will agendize innovative communities for our 21st Century learners.”
“We will cultivate competency-based technologies through the experiential based learning process.”
"Incomprehensible jargon is the hallmark of a profession."
-- Kingman Brewster
6
Before I became a teacher, I was a journalist and an editor. I know basic grammar, but the fact that I learned grammar mostly be ear -- the way my father played piano -- seems not to have been a hindrance in any of those occupations. We learn to writing by writing. I teach grammar, but not a lot. Writing well takes time, and there's not a lot of that in the classroom. I encourage and support each student; their most meager efforts are accepted, before we get to work. We draft and revise and keep everything so later, we can talk about how we did it. It's one of life's great pleasures to see a developing writing beam with confidence because she has written something she knows is good!
2
Not everything in life is fun, interesting, or a form of personal expression. Some learning is rote and, yes, at times can be dull. One does not learn a foreign language without memorizing vocabulary and learning grammar rules. Likewise, anyone who writes well understands grammar, sentence structure, and some basic principles about what constitutes good writing. Hoping that kids will just pick up the grammar from what they read is a pipe dream.
The need to be taught is there across socio-economic groups. That said, it is more of an issue when students live in homes where proper grammar is not spoken. Although I had extensive education in grammar (Catholic school 1950s), I often depend on how things sound to me based upon the English spoken at home growing up.
The need to be taught is there across socio-economic groups. That said, it is more of an issue when students live in homes where proper grammar is not spoken. Although I had extensive education in grammar (Catholic school 1950s), I often depend on how things sound to me based upon the English spoken at home growing up.
4
recipe for healthy human development based on developmental and social psychology:
1. Caring relationships
2. Skill building
3. Clear & high expectations
4. Meaningful participation
5. Community involvement
1. Caring relationships
2. Skill building
3. Clear & high expectations
4. Meaningful participation
5. Community involvement
I never really knew how to diagram a sentence. I just read everything in sight, until the rhythm of words became a form of echolocation. Later I got an English degree ("What will you ever do with that," said my mother), and have made a career writing words that other people need. Today I write about jet engines in a way that makes them comprehensible. I doubt that time spent in the classroom makes a good writer. It's time spent in love with language itself.
9
Charlies Hillocks Jr. from the U of Chicago reviewed over 2 decades and 2000 studies on the formal teaching of grammar and its effect on student writing. It was zero. Think about how children learn to speak, no one formally teaches them grammar and then says, "Speak!". It's not either or. Kids have to write; adults have to write and be interested first...get something on paper and then fix it by paying attention to spelling and grammar.
2
Does anyone still teach sentence diagramming? Yes, it was dull and tedious. But it worked.
3
Diagramming worked for some people, and some of us did not find it dull and tedious, but interesting just like algebra problems which some people also found dull and tedious. Diagramming a paragraph worked the same way, though in a more complicated manner; diagramming a novel with all its subplots worked, too, if it was a well-constructed novel like A Tale of Two Cities. We called it outlining, and it was analytical and did not work well for everyone.
You don't get a voice until you get a life. Learn the rules, it's called education which is a big part of growing up.
2
Here is a fun tool that kids can use -- put your text into the box and see how your phrases are presented in a poetic-porse style -- it illustrates how grammar rules give structure and meaning to one's writing.
www.liveink.com
http://www.liveink.com/Walker/Why_Kids_Can't_Write.htm
www.liveink.com
http://www.liveink.com/Walker/Why_Kids_Can't_Write.htm
One reason why some kids never learn to write is because their teachers never lesrned to teach. This is a verbatim copy of a note sent home by fidth grade teacher -- supposedly with a master's degree in educstion -- to the mother of a child who wws doing poorly in the classroom:
"John is failing in his studies he act as if he dont Care. John wont to do his himework at all he had a assignment to do and he fell [sic] to do it."
The outraged mother brought this note to the principal and the teacher wss fired.
"John is failing in his studies he act as if he dont Care. John wont to do his himework at all he had a assignment to do and he fell [sic] to do it."
The outraged mother brought this note to the principal and the teacher wss fired.
1
As a previous commentor said, it starts with reading good writing, which means writing that uses the active voice, declarative sentences and specific, visual words. And, as the initial step, OUTLINES! Early in my career, I would deconstruct and diagram feature articles from the New York Times. (Thank you, Ann Crittenden!) They were formulaic in a good way. They had structure. I have been a professional writer for 40 years, and to support my family by writing magazine articles quickly and efficiently, I had to learn to outline, rigorously. I'm amazed at the number of professional writers who do not outline. After 20 years of writing careful outlines, I no longer need them as much. It's baked in. But for anything past 1000 words, outlining is still essential. The outline always has five parts... the rest of my outlining technique Is proprietary.
2
"Some say English instruction must get back to basics, with a focus on grammar. But won’t that stifle a student’s personal voice?'
Is this question meant in jest?
Is this question meant in jest?
6
The personal voice can only be expressed competently once the tools and skills are mastered, whatever the field of endeavour. There is a well known training video on this issue featuring a National Geographic photographer who clearly states that true expression in only possible once the tools and skills become second nature. As we say in French: "Le verbe précède l'idée".
5
My children went through the Lucy Calkins program at their NYC public school -- it was very sweet in the earliest grades but as time went on that aversion to direct teaching the nuts & bolts of English became a drag on their writing and their confidence. Corrections were a piecemeal remedy to a general void. It was their Spanish teacher who taught them parts of speech and they only received real instruction in preparation for the SATs -- and they loved it!
I have come to call "Writing Across the Curriculum" "Writing Badly Across the Curriculum". The lack of formal grammar instruction only exacerbates the class differences in education -- my children have parents with advanced degrees but many of their classmates did not. The children of Mexican immigrants had parents who could hardly believe how negligent the grammar instruction was in our schools.
I have come to call "Writing Across the Curriculum" "Writing Badly Across the Curriculum". The lack of formal grammar instruction only exacerbates the class differences in education -- my children have parents with advanced degrees but many of their classmates did not. The children of Mexican immigrants had parents who could hardly believe how negligent the grammar instruction was in our schools.
6
I fell in love with writing while taking a course on it at the University of Colorado at Boulder. It was the way the teacher presented the material and his passion for a great sentence that sparked something in me. I had training in grammar in elementary school, but it went in one ear and out the other. Learning to appreciate the quality of a good sentence, and settling for nothing less, is the key. Having said that, Eats Shoots and Leaves helped the quality of my writing in tiny but critical way. I wish I had grown up with the privilege of having great writing teachers. Hopefully this movement will produce some results.
1
I should've done some editing before submitting.
1
Gah. Why write yet another article that can be summed up as, "Both sides are Wrong in that they demand that they are exclusively Right"?
If you want students to write well, teach them Logic with a capital L. Teach them how ideas flow, how to start and how to end, and to pick mundane or floral language as the occasion calls.
This requires some knowledge of grammar AND the possession of something, anything to say. Students stumble because they have no process for fleshing out ideas, or for filtering that flesh into a cohesive whole.
I say this as a student who has always edited her peers’ papers “for fun”, who gets the joy of letting them keep one sentence per paragraph on end-of-semester essays, due tomorrow at 9 am. I don’t even get a chance to fix their grammar (regrettable, I know) because I have to spend so much time making them THINK.
If you want students to write well, teach them Logic with a capital L. Teach them how ideas flow, how to start and how to end, and to pick mundane or floral language as the occasion calls.
This requires some knowledge of grammar AND the possession of something, anything to say. Students stumble because they have no process for fleshing out ideas, or for filtering that flesh into a cohesive whole.
I say this as a student who has always edited her peers’ papers “for fun”, who gets the joy of letting them keep one sentence per paragraph on end-of-semester essays, due tomorrow at 9 am. I don’t even get a chance to fix their grammar (regrettable, I know) because I have to spend so much time making them THINK.
1
Yes, yes, yes! I say yes as a teacher who has spent 33 years (so far) teaching students with learning disabilities in written language. All writers need deep understanding of the topic, opportunities to talk about it in order to flesh it out, and then an obvious structure to put their thoughts into. Many students lack the internal structure that natural writers seem to possess inately yet we fail to provide one for them. We teach children to speak through repetition and by providing structures and context, it should be no secret that developing writing skills requires the same opportunities. With these things in place, ALL students improve their written expression and more imporyany, their ability to think.
somewhere in my files, I have a clipping of a 1920s Times article about how high school students are totally lacking in knowledge of history...
I am sure, the Pharoah's overseers bemoaned the lack of stone cutting skill among the young recruits...
I am sure, the Pharoah's overseers bemoaned the lack of stone cutting skill among the young recruits...
1
Teaching writing well is a messy, thankless job. Most students will need academic writing skills either in college or in future careers. While creativity and self expression are fun and fun to teach, like Hocher, I think that writing one, good grammatically sound sentence is worth more than an essay filled with run on sentences, disorganized ideas, and a mangled version of the language. In my 32 year English teaching career, I taught grammar based on what students needed most. I read and marked up each and every literature based essay. Then, I pulled out sentences that were grammatically or stylistically weak and contained errors that were prevalent in most of the essays. I shared those with the class, and they had to figure out what was wrong and correct them with my guidance. We did this as part of our class on a daily basis. Do you know how long it takes to read, mark up, and analyze 150 student essays? Long, long hours at the kitchen table week after week. Do you think English teachers are compensated sufficiently for such work? I am not exaggerating when I tell you that I worked 60 hour weeks and so did many of my fellow English teachers. We took sick days in order to catch up on our grading. What's the solution? Smaller classes and adequate, fair compensation for the hard work that goes into teaching good, grammar based writing.
10
Is "finding one's voice" mutually exclusive from learning fundamental writing skills that enable the clear communication of that voice to others?
To my mind, it seems like possessing good writing skills would help the student better "find their voice". Or at least better communicate that voice as it develops.
Why not teach both at the same time?
Disclaimer: Comment made with my own good writing skills, or no, notwithstanding!
Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
To my mind, it seems like possessing good writing skills would help the student better "find their voice". Or at least better communicate that voice as it develops.
Why not teach both at the same time?
Disclaimer: Comment made with my own good writing skills, or no, notwithstanding!
Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
3
Pick up your favorite novel and take a quick look inside.
Proper spelling? Check. Good grammar? Check. Stifled creativity? Not likely.
While writing instruction should certainly include a focus on creativity and self-expression, being able to express it correct language is essential. Omitting either half of the equation is doing a disservice to our students.
Proper spelling? Check. Good grammar? Check. Stifled creativity? Not likely.
While writing instruction should certainly include a focus on creativity and self-expression, being able to express it correct language is essential. Omitting either half of the equation is doing a disservice to our students.
3
There are some excellent books out there that feature unusual grammar, spelling, and structure (Zora Neale Hurston's "Their Eyes Were Watching God" comes to mind) but often times, the writers are already masters at their craft. People who, like Picasso, can do everything correctly the conventional way and then go off on their own paths.
1
Very, very few people need (or want) to write "gorgeous" sentences. What people do need and want is to be able to write clear, convincing messages. These concerns about stifling someone's voice seem absurd! Students need to learn basic spelling, grammar, and organization in order to function as adults. After learning to write, they will then have the tools to express themselves, "gorgeously" even, in the rare case that they become poets, playwrights, or perhaps even for writing love letters or notes to friends and family. But young students need not spend precious school hours documenting their "inner voice" in order to ever have the ability to express their creativity, feelings, etc. That will come once they have both the tools to write and the life experiences to actually have an inner voice. College applications have become more competitive in the Internet age (now every Midwestern top 10%-er can easily e-apply to Yale and Barnard), so the college essays have become more important. There seems to be a linear connection to grade/middle/high schools' intense focus on creative writing, all in service of students crafting better college essays. This is all sooo misguided. I teach at a leading university, and even the better students often can not write even a short paper without countless errors. The errors are distracting to the point that I can not decipher what these "inner voices" are saying. Maybe 15% of students can write without errors. It's tragic.
7
This free writing nonsense does nothing more than make sometimes already disadvantaged students that much less competitive. It does a grave disservice to them and will leave them wondering why they are being squeezed out of colleges, out of jobs, and out of the main stream of American life because they haven't learned to articulate themselves by means of the written word. What a tragedy.
9
My primary school education was filled with sentence diagramming, phonics work sheets, rote memorization (multiplication tables), and the like. Lots of it dull stuff for a bright child. But I loved reading and books - my mother took me to the neighborhood library for my first library card when I was in grade 1.
I don't know how you instill the love of reading in children (maybe by reading to them?) but I'm certain reading a lot from a young age is critical to learning to write (and think!) well in one's native tongue.
Something has seriously gone off the American educational rails, and combining that with today's internet/phone gadgetry is devastating and, I fear, will continue to make us dumber with each generation.
I don't know how you instill the love of reading in children (maybe by reading to them?) but I'm certain reading a lot from a young age is critical to learning to write (and think!) well in one's native tongue.
Something has seriously gone off the American educational rails, and combining that with today's internet/phone gadgetry is devastating and, I fear, will continue to make us dumber with each generation.
9
Without 'sentence level mechanics' there's no basis for communicating a 'personal voice' to others.
6
Those who want to learn to write need to learn from those who have already mastered that skill. This is why every teacher, from nursery school onwards, should be ensuring that their students read. Those who read, read daily, and read things that are well-written have a good chance of learning to write.
But reading isn't enough. The next step is learning to put words on paper, and to edit. You don't have to edit to perfection in 1st grade, but you do need to learn to look at your own writing, and the writing of your peers, and make it just a little bit better. A good teacher will focus on one thing at a time. Perhaps today it will be subject/noun agreement. Another day it might be sentence fragments.
The basic grammar of sentences in the early years should be followed by the basic organization of sentences, then of paragraphs, then of short essays, and then longer essays. And through all this, each student must improve his or her editing skills.
The problem, of course, is that this takes time: both the teacher's time outside of the classroom and the students' time inside and out. It takes one-on-one time, with teachers helping students learn to edit their work. It's an expensive process.
Is it worth every minute? *I* think so, but my voice sometimes get lost. What are *you* willing to give up for each student so that they can master writing?
But reading isn't enough. The next step is learning to put words on paper, and to edit. You don't have to edit to perfection in 1st grade, but you do need to learn to look at your own writing, and the writing of your peers, and make it just a little bit better. A good teacher will focus on one thing at a time. Perhaps today it will be subject/noun agreement. Another day it might be sentence fragments.
The basic grammar of sentences in the early years should be followed by the basic organization of sentences, then of paragraphs, then of short essays, and then longer essays. And through all this, each student must improve his or her editing skills.
The problem, of course, is that this takes time: both the teacher's time outside of the classroom and the students' time inside and out. It takes one-on-one time, with teachers helping students learn to edit their work. It's an expensive process.
Is it worth every minute? *I* think so, but my voice sometimes get lost. What are *you* willing to give up for each student so that they can master writing?
5
I taught in the English and Creative Writing programs in a Tier 1 research university. It's very simple. Students don't read. That's how you learn language and grammar and sentence structure, and punctuation-----by reading. I have stopped in the middle of class and given mini-lectures on diagramming sentences, and punctuation, and grammar, and usage, and it very rarely helps, because students don't connect any of this to a process that should feel somewhat natural: reading and writing. And it's astounding how students don't "hear" what they've written. Sometimes I summon them to office hours to read their work aloud to me, and only then do they pause and say, "Oh, that doesn't make any sense, does it?" But they have no idea how to fix it. I believe strongly that students should be read aloud to every day by teachers, starting in kindergarten, and then given lots of "free reading" time in their classes as they move up through the grades, along with lots of writing exercises of various sorts. Then, and only then, as they develop do you begin to name what's going on in sentences and paragraphs. One of the biggest assaults on the English language was the dreaded 5-paragraph essay, which so many of my students were subjected to (and, yes, you can end a sentence with a preposition). Many students are now "fooled" by the graphic layouts of computer pages, and assume their work is more polished than it is. It's not. READING is the key.
140
Thanks for a great comment. I could not agree with you more. Read, read, read. It sure worked for me.
I hope you know how to identify dyslexic students and understand that a dyslexic person often has trouble knowing when/where to place capital letters and full stops, in addition to having trouble with their spelling, grammar and writing. I repeatedly asked teachers if they could have my sons assessed for dyslexia over a period of 8 years, only to be told they didn't think they were. An English tutor told me my 16 year old son was "just lazy", when I asked, again, if he could be assessed for dyslexia. She was shocked when I told her that his Physics tutor had just told me he was a "gifted Physician" and that he was one of the higher achievers in Maths. My sons were good at comprehension and as teachers wrongly associated dyslexia with poor intelligence, they believed my sons could not be dyslexic. More teachers need educating on dyslexia, as they are failing our children, both here in the UK and in the US (as the many dyslexic social media sites have shown). I had to pay to have my sons assessed privately at age 16, after finally having had enough of being told they were not dyslexic by teachers. Computers are great for dyslexics who struggle writing. Have a look at this video by Susan Barton, which shows how to identify dyslexia from examples of dyslexic children's work https://vimeo.com/203740803 and this video from Made by Dyslexia https://www.facebook.com/madebydyslexia/videos/798172910354370/
A. They don't read
B. When your granddaughter informs you that her teacher said that points are not taken away for bad spelling, poor punctuation and grammar - well ......
C. Grammar is not taught
D. Clause analysis or what in America is called sentence diagraming is not taught
E. When there seems to be in the minds of teachers that reading is somehow separate from language arts - Houston you got a problem.
Why the heck can we not inspire kids to use their intuition and find their voice when writing AS WELL AS use proper spelling, punctuation, grammar etc.
Throwing up my hands.
B. When your granddaughter informs you that her teacher said that points are not taken away for bad spelling, poor punctuation and grammar - well ......
C. Grammar is not taught
D. Clause analysis or what in America is called sentence diagraming is not taught
E. When there seems to be in the minds of teachers that reading is somehow separate from language arts - Houston you got a problem.
Why the heck can we not inspire kids to use their intuition and find their voice when writing AS WELL AS use proper spelling, punctuation, grammar etc.
Throwing up my hands.
5
What I cant tolerate is people who dont understand the proper use of apostrophe's.
6
In short, no.
Writing is a critical form of communication. Once learned it can be deviated from--once learned.
Writing is a critical form of communication. Once learned it can be deviated from--once learned.
3
To learn to do anything well, whether it's riding a bike, playing a sport, or writing a story or essay, one must first master basic skills. Grammar, punctuation and spelling are the basis of good communication both written and oral. When I taught Women's Studies classes at the university level and had the temerity to insist on correct grammar, spelling and punctuation in the short essays students turned in every week, students a frequent complaint was, "but this isn't an English class." My reply: "Your job won't be an English class either but you'd better believe your boss will expect the written reports you give her to be mistake free." Apparently that is a rationale young people today understand.
6
When I was in High School in the Sixties we received two grades on our compositions. one grade was for content. the other grade was for grammar.
I sure do remember that red circle for run-on sentences.
I sure do remember that red circle for run-on sentences.
3
Grammar, grammar, grammar; literature, literature, literature; fluency in reading, fluency in reading, fluency in reading; classic form in paragraph construction, classic form in paragraph construction, classic form in paragraph construction; cursive handwriting, vocabulary development, speaking skills, coherent essay writing (3-5 paragraphs), all by sixth grade..........in that order.
First, teach kindergarteners to use the language and appreciate books; then have first and second graders develop proficiency in reading while studying sentence form: tense, propositions, punctuation, quotation marks, etc; by third and fourth grades the students should master cursive handwriting and write paragraphs about experience and about their reading material; by fifth and sixth grades, they are ready for intensive vocabulary development, "speech," and coherent essay writing.
In that order...........Guess why it used to be called "Grammar" school? First, we learn to use our language..........
America needs to start educating its citizens. I am a retired middle school teacher, and I still remember why it is important to learn diagramming sentences, correct placement of modifiers, and unified paragraphs.
First, teach kindergarteners to use the language and appreciate books; then have first and second graders develop proficiency in reading while studying sentence form: tense, propositions, punctuation, quotation marks, etc; by third and fourth grades the students should master cursive handwriting and write paragraphs about experience and about their reading material; by fifth and sixth grades, they are ready for intensive vocabulary development, "speech," and coherent essay writing.
In that order...........Guess why it used to be called "Grammar" school? First, we learn to use our language..........
America needs to start educating its citizens. I am a retired middle school teacher, and I still remember why it is important to learn diagramming sentences, correct placement of modifiers, and unified paragraphs.
6
I wish we had an edit option. The word is "preposition" and I didn't edit before submitting! Darn it!
I'm a pro writer. I work with varying degrees of literacy, from academic to commercial writing. The problem is a combination of grammar, vocabulary, and failure to understand what writing can do as a form of communication. If you get people to focus on "commuter" sentences, like "The cat sat on the mat", A to B, the ability to deal with more complex sentences is instantly stymied by lack of experience in more advanced usage.
Suggestion: Get people to write about something which really engages their enthusiasm. Their confidence will go way up. They'll be actually TRYING to express themselves, and WANT to write something they find fun and interesting.
Go to work on whatever comes out. You'll find far less resistance, less fear of the rules of writing, and a better focus on how to deliver what they want to say. This also kills off the "Fear of writing" problem, where looking stupid is a real deterrent to more efficient writing.
Another point - Grammar is not an end in itself. It's a means. The whole of English language literature is full of misspellings, lousy grammar, and lost/vague expressions, as well as verbal flower arrangements and hideous verbosity. Let's not be too deprecating. These kids aren't dumb; they're confronted with a game of Scrabble where they don't know the rules and don't know how to make their points. Patience, getting interest and some encouragement will achieve more than any other method.
Suggestion: Get people to write about something which really engages their enthusiasm. Their confidence will go way up. They'll be actually TRYING to express themselves, and WANT to write something they find fun and interesting.
Go to work on whatever comes out. You'll find far less resistance, less fear of the rules of writing, and a better focus on how to deliver what they want to say. This also kills off the "Fear of writing" problem, where looking stupid is a real deterrent to more efficient writing.
Another point - Grammar is not an end in itself. It's a means. The whole of English language literature is full of misspellings, lousy grammar, and lost/vague expressions, as well as verbal flower arrangements and hideous verbosity. Let's not be too deprecating. These kids aren't dumb; they're confronted with a game of Scrabble where they don't know the rules and don't know how to make their points. Patience, getting interest and some encouragement will achieve more than any other method.
3
One of the funniest, although ultimately sad, compilations of college students' writings
https://wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/winter-2014-four-decades-of-classi...
https://wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/winter-2014-four-decades-of-classi...
1
Many teachers are barely literate themselves. Get rid of them.
3
as a 41-year-old professional writer who went to school in the era of teaching grammar and spelling, the answer is NO, it will not stifle their voice. it will hone it.
every author you have ever loved that is older than 35 learned the old way. were their voices stifled? No.
What we need to do in this country is begin to value writing again. We need to begin to value basic grammar again.
every author you have ever loved that is older than 35 learned the old way. were their voices stifled? No.
What we need to do in this country is begin to value writing again. We need to begin to value basic grammar again.
8
Thinking a statement through and putting it down in a way that can be understood clearly and unambiguously does not stifle ones personal expression, it facilitates it.
5
Writing and handwriting skills of American students are far below the standards of other western countries.
My daughter's boyfriend has a 4.0 in undergrad biology but he wouldn't be able to get an A in English or many other subjects without my daughter extensively editing all of his written papers.
Today, many American kids at all academic and socio-economic levels struggle to write well. How to explain this? There's been no priority or emphasis on teaching students writing and handwriting for almost 40 years (since 1980). American kids watch too much television and indulge in too much screen time vs reading books.
My 18 yr old was read to extensively, even as a baby, and started reading and writing on her own at age four. She watched no television until age 3 and then it was limited. She didn't really engage in any other screen time until 6th grade. She loved to write and draw and took writing workshop camps during summers. She scored a perfect verbal score on her college aptitude test.
Today, my 9 yr old twins were raised in a decidedly more digital age. Although I limit their screen time, it's indisputably more difficult these days. They have nowhere near my oldest daughter's abilities at her same age. And so it goes...
My daughter's boyfriend has a 4.0 in undergrad biology but he wouldn't be able to get an A in English or many other subjects without my daughter extensively editing all of his written papers.
Today, many American kids at all academic and socio-economic levels struggle to write well. How to explain this? There's been no priority or emphasis on teaching students writing and handwriting for almost 40 years (since 1980). American kids watch too much television and indulge in too much screen time vs reading books.
My 18 yr old was read to extensively, even as a baby, and started reading and writing on her own at age four. She watched no television until age 3 and then it was limited. She didn't really engage in any other screen time until 6th grade. She loved to write and draw and took writing workshop camps during summers. She scored a perfect verbal score on her college aptitude test.
Today, my 9 yr old twins were raised in a decidedly more digital age. Although I limit their screen time, it's indisputably more difficult these days. They have nowhere near my oldest daughter's abilities at her same age. And so it goes...
2
I attended Catholic grammar school in the mid 1950's. I can still visualize sentence structure and parts of speech and how to use them in a grammatically correct way. I know when and how to use the correct conjunctions and pronouns when both speaking and writing.
The good nuns taught all of the above by constant repetition and diagramming sentences! Very low tech, no creativity needed. Try it.
The good nuns taught all of the above by constant repetition and diagramming sentences! Very low tech, no creativity needed. Try it.
3
We do not need to teach students to be great writers; we need to teach them to write correctly.
7
High school English teacher here. Kids can't write well because they cannot read well. Students today have little stamina or perseverance, and they will not work hard at a text. Why? Because they've been raised on young adult pablum. I have grown to view YA literature as a scourge, grooming students for mature thematic content while dumbing down their vocabulary and reading skills. If I hear another student claim that he or she cannot read what I've assigned because it's not "relatable," or that "the sentences are too long," I think I'll set my hair on fire.
Want better writers? Teach actual literature in middle school. Period. The end.
Want better writers? Teach actual literature in middle school. Period. The end.
8
when I was in grade school our after lunch recess ritual was teacher reading aloud real literature. we would beg for more of the secret garden,, just one more chapter of the hobbit. in this way even slower readers were exposed to great writing. my son's teachers read stuff they could all read themselves. (magic treehouse,etc.) where was the Adventure in that? in defense we kept reading aloud at home going through 7th grade. my college kid still enjoys reading! I think read aloud needs to return to classrooms!
2
I'm high canon. My PhD is in Renaissance literature. That's what I used to teach. I tend to think the best writers are the most educated. Because it was mostly white men who have had the most access to education, they would, by my logic, be the best writers. We live in an era in which teaching books by dead white men is frowned upon. I get why it is frowned upon, but such frowning excludes much of the best literature. Intelligence is always relevant (if not "relatable"). There are two types of readers: Those who want books that speak to their own life experience and those who hunger for genius, even it seems foreign to them. When I was 2o, I read Mann's The Magic Mountain. It didn't seem relevant to me, at first, but by the time I'd read it a second time four years later, I thanked life for showing me such intelligence.
I am a writer. I have been blessed enough to make a good living being such, and to be honest, I wouldn't recognize a participle dangling right in front of me. I don't think good writing comes from knowing how to diagram a sentence, but in knowing how to think. Being able to arrange one's thoughts cogently, with precision and clarity. To do this, one must read. Voraciously. It doesn't matter if you read Voltaire or the sports page, but you must immerse yourself in the world of words. Writing is like swimming. You can't learn how to do it without first jumping in.
118
I completely agree. I'm a writer too, and if I took a grammar test, I might fail. Read, read, read. Fall in love with books, with words, with language. I hated parsing sentences, yet I've been paid to write. In College, I was happy when we had essay exams; multiple choice was confusing. The real question is how to raise a reader.
4
I agree they need to read, but they also need to know grammatical structures so that they can imitate writers like you. I don't mean copy your ideas but copy the sentence structures you may use. When a teacher highlights a writer's style and voice, many students do not know how to duplicate the creative and descriptive sentences.Writers such as yourself don't need to know what a participle is, but many of my students do need to be able recognize vivid verbs in active voice versus passive voice or an appositive, subject-verb agreement, pronoun-antecedent agreement, parallelism, and so forth, so that they can imitate and improve their style of writing. When we have taught students to recognize and create their own grammatical structures and sentences, they incorporate them into their own writing. We require them to self-regulate. It gives them practical tools that they can imitate and incorporate into their own writing. It works very well.
2
"I have been blessed enough to make a good living being such..." I believe you would have been better served by "as such".
I spent 6 weeks in the 10th grade diagramming sentences. In the 12th grade, Miss Anna Brown, a distinguished veteran teacher, taught grammar and creating beautiful sentences . I loved learning the structure and craft and the way sentences could be put together. As a science major in college, I didn't do much writing, but as a law student, and then a lawyer, I learned to construct lovely paragraphs , ending in well-crafted briefs. I was not taught to write essays in school. My children were given that instruction, and I helped them learn to edit their own work , as well as focus on the overall beauty and flow of a piece. What do the children of uneducated parents do? Get help from tutors or never learn. I frequently am dismayed by the use of improper grammar in The New York Times, whose writers we presume to be the best in the world. As my family members say, "Miss Anna Brown would be turning over in her grave if she read the Times today!"
1
I taught editing at a reputable New Jersey school to people who minored in journalism. I would say 90% of them hadn't mastered the very fundamentals of punctuation and sentence construction. Leaning to write clearly didn't inhibit the talents of thousands of successful writers. This is utter nonsense. The problem is that the teacher themselves don't know the rules, which stopped being taught in the 60s. If you're a music student and you hit a wrong note, you're corrected. Not so in English class. This is such an incredible disservice to today's students. Punctuation and grammar rules are there so that you make yourself CLEAR, and there's no point in "expressing yourself" if you can't do it in a way that other people can understand. This is total nonsense.
3
great comparison to music! spread the word!
1
"Before writing paragraphs — which is often now part of the kindergarten curriculum .... "
And herein lies part of the problem: children are expected to learn to write (and read) far too early. A six-year-old won't recognise the beauty of a sentence or a poem or appreciate the structure of a story if she has to laboriously sound out each word. Material designed for the reading skills of the typical six-year-old is, almost by definition, devoid of beauty. Children should be read TO far longer than they are, but no: just when they're ready to sit through and discuss really juicy stories we reduce or even eliminate the time we spend reading to them and hand them worksheets and readers that insult their intelligence, if not their decoding skills. It's madness.
And herein lies part of the problem: children are expected to learn to write (and read) far too early. A six-year-old won't recognise the beauty of a sentence or a poem or appreciate the structure of a story if she has to laboriously sound out each word. Material designed for the reading skills of the typical six-year-old is, almost by definition, devoid of beauty. Children should be read TO far longer than they are, but no: just when they're ready to sit through and discuss really juicy stories we reduce or even eliminate the time we spend reading to them and hand them worksheets and readers that insult their intelligence, if not their decoding skills. It's madness.
5
If you have students of color from families that refuse to assimilate how can there be any other outcome especially since English is America's official language.
As an immigrant to this country who spoke no English, I was immersed in the language (they didn't have dual language classes for Chinese back then), made fun of for my lack of pronunciation, but eventually learned English by reading. A lot.
I read during recess (which is probably why I was usually picked last for sports) and whenever I could. My dad would take me to the library to get whatever books I wanted.
I was a willing pupil for my teachers. I'm not sure if that could be said of the children in school these days; part of that is not entirely their fault because they've been sucked into the technological age. Part of that technology has spawned fan fiction, which I understand doesn't have the same editorial standards as printed books.
Of course, I read to both of my children and encouraged their reading. I also spent time helping my daughter work through her writing issues in elementary school. Luckily for us, the librarian devised interesting ways to get the kids to put their thoughts down on paper.
These days, most of the libraries don't even have full-time librarians in the LA school district. We do need more money spent on education and on helping educators come up with ways to draw kids into books and writing.
My daughter is in her last year of high school. She's thinking she wants to go to college for a degree that has something to do with writing.
I read during recess (which is probably why I was usually picked last for sports) and whenever I could. My dad would take me to the library to get whatever books I wanted.
I was a willing pupil for my teachers. I'm not sure if that could be said of the children in school these days; part of that is not entirely their fault because they've been sucked into the technological age. Part of that technology has spawned fan fiction, which I understand doesn't have the same editorial standards as printed books.
Of course, I read to both of my children and encouraged their reading. I also spent time helping my daughter work through her writing issues in elementary school. Luckily for us, the librarian devised interesting ways to get the kids to put their thoughts down on paper.
These days, most of the libraries don't even have full-time librarians in the LA school district. We do need more money spent on education and on helping educators come up with ways to draw kids into books and writing.
My daughter is in her last year of high school. She's thinking she wants to go to college for a degree that has something to do with writing.
71
All languages with which I am familiar have similar constructs: nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, and conjunctions. These become the subjects, predicates and objects of our thought patterns. While these may be assembled differently from tongue to tongue, there are nevertheless rules by which they are constructed. Learning the rules allows one to effectively construct a sentence from an idea. Without a knowledge of how to correctly craft a sentence, how is one to communicate? If one is unable to communicate, one is effectively cut off from the world. At the rate we're going, with poor literacy and numeracy skills, we'll be living in caves before climate change starves us. How did we get here, and what are we going to do about it? How far we have fallen...
1
In this age of Google, we all know everything, except how to critically analyze data. Despite its length the entire article could be reduced to two sentences "Mrs. Sokolowski is right that formal grammar instruction, like identifying parts of speech, doesn’t work well. In fact, research finds that students exposed to a glut of such instruction perform worse on writing assessments." If schools do not base instruction on data, then they will fail again and again. Where is the data showing what does work?? Why is it missing in action? This all reminds me of many nutrition scares -- don't eat eggs, or saturated fats or.... These recommendations failed because the data and analysis were slipshod.
The fact that kids can't write in today's society is to blame on the educators of these kids. What intrigued me most about this article is that i can relate to it really well. With shortcuts being easy through texts and technology being a big distraction writing is being put aside in children's education.
"And while [Dr. Hochman] isn't arguing for a return to the grammar lessons of yesteryear --- she knows sentence diagramming leaves most students confused and disengaged ..."
I loved diagramming sentences. Each sentence was a new puzzle to be solved. There is no better way to teach and display grammatical structure than to draw a picture of a sentence.
I loved diagramming sentences. Each sentence was a new puzzle to be solved. There is no better way to teach and display grammatical structure than to draw a picture of a sentence.
4
why do we insist on all kids doing algebra but no students diagramming sentences?
1
Social, appearance and other matters mean little if there is no basis for
adequate basic skill in reading, writing and arithmetic. Add to that the ability to communicate and create. Nobody is less intelligent or 'duller,' but too many are directionless, and lack any focus. Change must be in the wind.
adequate basic skill in reading, writing and arithmetic. Add to that the ability to communicate and create. Nobody is less intelligent or 'duller,' but too many are directionless, and lack any focus. Change must be in the wind.
It's true that "kids" have had trouble with writing throughout all of American educational history, but it's also true that before the early 20th century, a lot of kids weren't even being educated in schools. Now all American children and teens are educated in schools (or home-schooled), so there are fewer excuses for bad writing skills.
The legitimate excuse: the huge influx over the 20th and 21st centuries in immigrants from non-English speaking countries.
The non-legitimate excuses: children/teens don't read anymore. They (and their teachers!) need to be reading not just fiction, but nonfiction. Reading nonfiction will teach them how to write nonfiction. After all, most kids aren't going to become novelists. But they might at some point in their lives have to write a business letter or a memo. Or a term paper in college.
Kids need to put down their phones and stop texting. When I get postcards from my nieces and nephews they show the abominable effects of texting, from lack of any punctuation to emojis to "u" instead of "you."
The legitimate excuse: the huge influx over the 20th and 21st centuries in immigrants from non-English speaking countries.
The non-legitimate excuses: children/teens don't read anymore. They (and their teachers!) need to be reading not just fiction, but nonfiction. Reading nonfiction will teach them how to write nonfiction. After all, most kids aren't going to become novelists. But they might at some point in their lives have to write a business letter or a memo. Or a term paper in college.
Kids need to put down their phones and stop texting. When I get postcards from my nieces and nephews they show the abominable effects of texting, from lack of any punctuation to emojis to "u" instead of "you."
3
Proper grammar does not threaten the student's voice. Grammar and rhetoric give the writer options for expression; you could argue that without grammar there is no thought, no voice. We think and feel through grammatical constructions, through relationships that grammar opens up. Grammar is both conception and execution--to use a false dichotomy. Typically, the education establishment just doesn't get it; hence, I will continue to try to teach Shakespeare to college students who have no clue how modern English works--let alone the Renaissance variety.
2
One presumably unintended result of the fact that schools have abandoned teaching grammar is the creation of a very high-end market for private tutoring in that subject. Although an increasing number of teachers either lack the skills to teach grammar effectively, or have had it drummed into their heads in Education programs that teaching grammar "stifles creativity," grammar is still being tested on college admissions exams. Because students are not obtaining basic knowledge in the classroom, and because fewer and fewer people are equipped to teach it effectively, private tutors can literally charge hundreds of dollars an hour to teach things like subject-verb agreement. I was lucky enough to get a reasonable grounding in grammar in high school (some of it in English class, a lot more in French and Latin) in the mid-late 1990s, since a number of my teachers were 30-year veterans who still had a fairly traditional approach; however, when I started tutoring privately a few years after graduating from college, I was absolutely flabbergasted at what my students didn't know. As I discovered, well-off parents were willing to pay a very high premium for an approach that could be easily found for free in public school a few generations ago. Removing this type of instruction from the classroom hasn't eliminated the need for it -- it's merely privatized it, and sent the price skyrocketing. As for the students whose parents can't afford tutoring: usually, they just don't learn.
3
I have set up a scholarship program for high school seniors. The first (and now only) requirement is that they choose between 2 essay questions and write an essay of 500 words or less. In the 5 years I have been offering these scholarships, I have been both amazed and appalled at the quality of the writing. Mostly appalled. Grammar and punctuation errors abound. One student used a word that was close in spelling to the one she wanted to use, but had the exact opposite meaning. Spell check can check spelling, but not meaning. Two essays have stood out above all the others - beautifully written with descriptive language and proper grammar. Of these two, one was written by a student from China who had only been speaking English for 5 years.
I think part of the problem lies in the number of students a high school English teacher teaches in any given year. If the teacher has 4 classes of 30 students each and assigns a research paper, she/he has 120 research papers to read and grade. In my high school, there were 5 students in my senior English class. My teacher graded our note cards, our outlines, our several rough drafts and our final paper. She had the time to TEACH us how to write coherently.
And, yes, reading great literature helps too.
I think part of the problem lies in the number of students a high school English teacher teaches in any given year. If the teacher has 4 classes of 30 students each and assigns a research paper, she/he has 120 research papers to read and grade. In my high school, there were 5 students in my senior English class. My teacher graded our note cards, our outlines, our several rough drafts and our final paper. She had the time to TEACH us how to write coherently.
And, yes, reading great literature helps too.
4
Somewhere between being able to read the job-site bulletin board and endorsing your paycheck, and, writing deathless prose and the great American novel. Can we agree on where that is?
I'm not sure what happened. I went to public school in the '50's and 60's and State University back in the '70's. I write well enough to be published and well enough that my reports are clear and understood. I work with people from their late twenties to over seventy. We all seem able to hold our own. We work collaboratively, and that is key. I have two children in their mid and late twenties. Both went to private schools. I still edit their resumes, notes and letters. But they're getting better. I'm not sure what happened.
I'm not sure what happened. I went to public school in the '50's and 60's and State University back in the '70's. I write well enough to be published and well enough that my reports are clear and understood. I work with people from their late twenties to over seventy. We all seem able to hold our own. We work collaboratively, and that is key. I have two children in their mid and late twenties. Both went to private schools. I still edit their resumes, notes and letters. But they're getting better. I'm not sure what happened.
2
you should have tried public schools for your kids.
1
Why Kids Can’t Write
This article interested me a lot, because I can relate to it really well. As a high school student going into junior year, I can say I am not the best at writing. In middle school language arts class, we learned about basic writing skills like subject verb agreement, adjective words etc. The problem is, we learned all of that just for the sake of passing the test, not to actually remember it. In highschool, the language arts teachers barely went over it again and as a result our essays didn't turn out that great. When texting and on social media, I never worry about periods, commas or any of the grammar. In school, we are expected to do the complete apposite all of a sudden. Us kids don't actually learn how to write properly, because autocorrect fixes it for us without taking any points away. We learn writing vocabulary in high school, for example - personification and alliteration just to pass the quiz not write a good essay. We don't get to write a essay in which we share our story, usually we have write it related to a recent book we read in class. if highschool lang teachers want us to be good writers, they should review the basics with us first and they should take into consideration on how we write on our phone vs. how wre expected to write in class.
This article interested me a lot, because I can relate to it really well. As a high school student going into junior year, I can say I am not the best at writing. In middle school language arts class, we learned about basic writing skills like subject verb agreement, adjective words etc. The problem is, we learned all of that just for the sake of passing the test, not to actually remember it. In highschool, the language arts teachers barely went over it again and as a result our essays didn't turn out that great. When texting and on social media, I never worry about periods, commas or any of the grammar. In school, we are expected to do the complete apposite all of a sudden. Us kids don't actually learn how to write properly, because autocorrect fixes it for us without taking any points away. We learn writing vocabulary in high school, for example - personification and alliteration just to pass the quiz not write a good essay. We don't get to write a essay in which we share our story, usually we have write it related to a recent book we read in class. if highschool lang teachers want us to be good writers, they should review the basics with us first and they should take into consideration on how we write on our phone vs. how wre expected to write in class.
4
Ahsan, first of all, I am glad you are reading the NY Times. I wish I could get more of my students to do that!
As to the difference between how you write on your phone vs. how you are expected to write in class, both ways of writing are valuable at some point, and in different situations. You just have to know when and how to use each to your advantage!
Just as the way you speak to your friends is probably not the way you speak to your parents, you have to be able to recognize and use the appropriate language and writing style depending on who your "audience" is in any given situation.
The important thing to remember is this: the way you text and talk to your friends is fine in that situation. But the academic and employment world will fully expect that you will successfully be able to write in the "standard" English your teachers are trying to get you to master.
So text as you will, but get really, really good at perfecting your "standard" English as well, so that you can "speak truth to power," and maximize your success in college and in your career. The right words can change the world!
Good luck to you in all your future endeavors!
As to the difference between how you write on your phone vs. how you are expected to write in class, both ways of writing are valuable at some point, and in different situations. You just have to know when and how to use each to your advantage!
Just as the way you speak to your friends is probably not the way you speak to your parents, you have to be able to recognize and use the appropriate language and writing style depending on who your "audience" is in any given situation.
The important thing to remember is this: the way you text and talk to your friends is fine in that situation. But the academic and employment world will fully expect that you will successfully be able to write in the "standard" English your teachers are trying to get you to master.
So text as you will, but get really, really good at perfecting your "standard" English as well, so that you can "speak truth to power," and maximize your success in college and in your career. The right words can change the world!
Good luck to you in all your future endeavors!
1
LINGUISTS View the anything written that is understood by 2 or more people is objectively described as "writing." Teachers are mistakenly thought that they are restricted to teaching their students using Standard Written English, which typically represents a formalized, antiquated style of the language. The task of getting kids to transfer their linguistically fine and dandy writing to other media begins with having them transcribe from their texts letter for letter. Then asking them to change the abbreviations to complete words, such as writing "you" for "u." Students can be asked, what's another way of saying that? so they are encouraged to shift their style. There is a play, The Me Nobody Knows, that can be seen on YouTube that was developed from the poetry of the classes of inner city kids in the 70s. Another strategy that kids like is using Mad Libs, where they're asked to supply a word of a particular part of speech. Then the results are read aloud. Hilarity usually ensues. Having kids write notes in different styles, such as texting, laptop, note and letter is another way of helping them to appreciate style shifting. The use of grammar is unconscious, so making it conscious requires what Piaget would call formal operations. He says they appear typically at age 16 years. There are intermediate steps, such as writing basic sentences, labeling the words above as NVN Mary sees John. Noun Verb Noun. Asking kids for other examples can be fun.
Oh please, and then shall we have students as illiterate as they are innumerate because we don't want them to learn some personal discipline?
1
I'm a new teacher who has despaired of helping my students to improve their writing. When even the leading education experts in the country don't have any proven strategies, what am I to do? I would welcome any suggestions of good writing programs from people with actual expertise and knowledge.
2
Find another occupation if you really have no clue. Did you improve your own writing from second grade through college? Teaching is an art, not a science. I once tutored a reluctant 16 yr old whose parent despaired of his low English grades in high school. At our first meeting, the conversation proceeded: "What might you like to write about?" "Nothing." "So, define what 'nothing' means"
"....nothing." "OK, let's write all that on your paper."
He wrote about the philosophical meaning of "nothingness" for about seven or eight weeks. Was surprised to learn there was such a book entitled "Being and Nothingness" (Sartre), and was astounded at the volume of descriptions he, himself, had written.
Nothing like challenging a teen to take up the topic he prefers: "I don't wanna write about nothing" "OK, let's get started!"
"....nothing." "OK, let's write all that on your paper."
He wrote about the philosophical meaning of "nothingness" for about seven or eight weeks. Was surprised to learn there was such a book entitled "Being and Nothingness" (Sartre), and was astounded at the volume of descriptions he, himself, had written.
Nothing like challenging a teen to take up the topic he prefers: "I don't wanna write about nothing" "OK, let's get started!"
The main photo appears to be a group of recently homeless completing rent voucher forms. Seriously, does this group really think that the last couple hundred years of teaching will be undone by them? Reading, writing and math all take concentration and some work. Not overwhelming work, but attention to task. This group should try to explain the concept of "work" to their students.
Writing is a difficult skill, which is why so many people are not good At it. The common core standards represent a lot of hard work by concerned and thoughtful scholars, and they do a reasonably good job of describing good writing, not just in language arts but in the various content areas as well.
Now that the standards have been set, however, our society cannot handle the simple fact that most people, students and adults alike, do not even come close to meeting them. School systems and education departments get caught between lofty standards, set by politicians, and the pushback from parents who can't accept that their children don't measure up. This has resulted in blaming -- blaming the standards themselves, blaming teachers, blaming schools, blaming parents, and blaming societal inequality. Meanwhile, in a misguided effort to avoid blame, we equivocate about test results, cheat by teaching to tests (or in more direct ways), and generally squirm around in every way possible to avoid the plain truths revealed by all kinds of metrics.
But, believe it or not, the standards are good and well worth trying to achieve, however hard that may be. To have any chance of doing that, we have to quit blaming, quit cheating, keep testing (but not excessively), and. see what we can do to make real progress.
Now that the standards have been set, however, our society cannot handle the simple fact that most people, students and adults alike, do not even come close to meeting them. School systems and education departments get caught between lofty standards, set by politicians, and the pushback from parents who can't accept that their children don't measure up. This has resulted in blaming -- blaming the standards themselves, blaming teachers, blaming schools, blaming parents, and blaming societal inequality. Meanwhile, in a misguided effort to avoid blame, we equivocate about test results, cheat by teaching to tests (or in more direct ways), and generally squirm around in every way possible to avoid the plain truths revealed by all kinds of metrics.
But, believe it or not, the standards are good and well worth trying to achieve, however hard that may be. To have any chance of doing that, we have to quit blaming, quit cheating, keep testing (but not excessively), and. see what we can do to make real progress.
1
There's nothing wrong with learning and practicing the rules of grammar in any language. It helped me express my voice and its rhythm in writing. Start a diary to practice your personal voice.
"There is a notable shortage of high-quality research on the teaching of writing..." Ms. Goldstein, perhaps you should dig deeper - not much - in your own writing. There is a whole discipline that researches and publishes and presents peer-reviewed articles and conference talks on the teaching of writing, organized largely by the K - college professional organization, the National Council of Teachers of English.
2
My high schooler was struggling in his foreign language class. What we figured out was he had never been taught basic grammar. A weekend review with dad and his grade shot back up to where it should be. Turns out he never was taught anything about nouns, verbs, prepositions, etc. Diagramming a sentence? He had never seen it....and this is in a "top" district.
The basics exist for a reason. We need to do more of it as part of our kids' education.
The basics exist for a reason. We need to do more of it as part of our kids' education.
3
As a new computer programmer if anyone asks me what programming is like I would have to say that its very similar to writing. The grammar and punctuation required for understandable English is analogous to the structure and punctuation needed in programming. My experience in writing has helped me to learn and use computer languages. As we are concerned about students acquiring programming skills lets not forget that learning good English grammar and punctuation is a useful mental template for programming.
1
Many of the comments I've read seem to choose a side: grammar or "free writing." However, Goldstein's article clearly states: "At every level, students benefit from clear feedback on their writing, and from seeing and trying to imitate what successful writing looks like, [from] so-called text models. Some of the touchy-feel stuff matters, too. Students with higher confidence in their writing ability perform better... All of this points toward a synthesis of the two approaches." I believe the article suggests a healthy dose of grammar instruction, sentence-level and wholistic feedback, as well as writing for self-expression and analysis are all part of the mix. Plus, as some have written in comments, revision is key.
I am a high school English teacher--fortunately English departments have not been abolished--and any good teacher knows that one needs to use a range of techniques to reach every student. What helps one learn to write and what keeps one from learning is different for every student. Some students won't get anywhere using the vocabulary of grammar to analyze their writing, but those same students write beautifully (and correctly). Other students are great at grammar terms, but their actual writing is problematic. As with any art or skill, usually one takes two steps forward and one step back. A student who struggled with writing in high school may become a fantastic writer later IF a student has learned to love (reading and) writing. Thus, love of writing is key.
I am a high school English teacher--fortunately English departments have not been abolished--and any good teacher knows that one needs to use a range of techniques to reach every student. What helps one learn to write and what keeps one from learning is different for every student. Some students won't get anywhere using the vocabulary of grammar to analyze their writing, but those same students write beautifully (and correctly). Other students are great at grammar terms, but their actual writing is problematic. As with any art or skill, usually one takes two steps forward and one step back. A student who struggled with writing in high school may become a fantastic writer later IF a student has learned to love (reading and) writing. Thus, love of writing is key.
4
Read a lot, especially the King James Bible, and if possible study Latin. You will write beautifully, though you might not have too much to say.
1
Why is this an either or? You have to have the supplies, tools, and knowledge of how to use them to create anything in this world. Grammar and writing are analogous to a pile of construction materials and a building. Grammar is just the frame, the things a sentence, paragraph, and essay are made from. Words are arranged grammatically as material is hung from a frame. Punctuation is like to screws, nails, and fasteners of all types. Every building is made of the same basic materials, with varying degrees of complexity and quality. The architect and builder use those basic items to create whatever they want, from the pedestrian to fanciful. Every writer uses the same basic words, rules of grammar, and punctuation to create prose from the memo to a love letter to a defining novel.
3
#2 I am the ancient mariner. I can't be stopped.
However, I can be slowed down. I can forget to make a copy of Part 1 before I hit SUBMIT and, thereby, lose my place. I have more, much more to say about grammar, but let me shift the frame to another essential element in the subject at hand. I have made the claim that English teachers are temperamentally and intellectually ill suited to teaching grammar. What most believe about the subject is demonstrably wrong.
How can I say such a thing? I can say it because (with notable exceptions) English professors are introspective thinkers. They feel their way toward what they regard as truth. They KNOW that Henry James is the great master, while H. G. Wells is a mere journalist lacking in all the rhetorical graces. How do they come by this certain knowledge? An epistemology of taste.
Why "Downton Abbey" and not "The Walking Dead"? You can't argue with them, and yet you expect them to teach the basics of argument to the educated citizens of a free society? Karl Popper said science proceeds through a process of conjecture and refutation; Geoff Pullum prefers speculation and disappointment. What English teachers cannot be counted on to know is that modern science does not deal in Truth; we deal only in probable knowledge. We cannot teach your children to find their voices; we CAN help find the claims they want to refute in an argument. If English teachers could identify defensible claims, you wouldn't know Alan Sokal's name.
MORE?#3
However, I can be slowed down. I can forget to make a copy of Part 1 before I hit SUBMIT and, thereby, lose my place. I have more, much more to say about grammar, but let me shift the frame to another essential element in the subject at hand. I have made the claim that English teachers are temperamentally and intellectually ill suited to teaching grammar. What most believe about the subject is demonstrably wrong.
How can I say such a thing? I can say it because (with notable exceptions) English professors are introspective thinkers. They feel their way toward what they regard as truth. They KNOW that Henry James is the great master, while H. G. Wells is a mere journalist lacking in all the rhetorical graces. How do they come by this certain knowledge? An epistemology of taste.
Why "Downton Abbey" and not "The Walking Dead"? You can't argue with them, and yet you expect them to teach the basics of argument to the educated citizens of a free society? Karl Popper said science proceeds through a process of conjecture and refutation; Geoff Pullum prefers speculation and disappointment. What English teachers cannot be counted on to know is that modern science does not deal in Truth; we deal only in probable knowledge. We cannot teach your children to find their voices; we CAN help find the claims they want to refute in an argument. If English teachers could identify defensible claims, you wouldn't know Alan Sokal's name.
MORE?#3
2
Diagramming sentences works like a charm. I am glad I had an old-fashioned English teacher who taught it in the late 60s and early 70s, when it was out of style. It was fun, like a game or puzzle.
11
You can't break the norms if you don't understand the norms. Having no foundation in grammar, paradoxically, stifles creativity. The shackles of grammar, in the end, don't limit vision. You need the rules in order to toss them off and dare to let your vision soar.
6
Kids can't write because kids don't read. Period.
6
Like art, creativity will not flourish if one does not know, and know with confidence, the basic rules of any discipline.
Try math without understanding what a number is.
How can someone possibly write without knowing how to read?
How can someone read without knowing what the alphabet is?
Get real.
Your voice is ALWAYS there. You don't truly understand how to express it consistently until you grasp the structure.
I teach college students & I can assure you it is rare for them to write a coherent sentence much less a paper. It's beyond them.
They can't write because they don't read.
And they damn sure can't comprehend what they read.
They don't read because they are not required to read
In K-12.
And they want to be entertained 24-7.
They have been taught to be lazy, and could care less about doing the difficult & tedious work required to write. They complain, and complain and complain. "It's too hard," poor me, no one taught me. You would think they were being asked to write Moby Dick when they are assigned a 500 word essay.
They don't know how to act in a classroom & spend a lot of time in the victim role.
I don't give writing assignments because it's far too time consuming for me. And they could care less.
This is the outcome of defunding education, overloading teachers & students with tests, indulgent parents, the internet, & cell phones.
And finally, kids can't write because they don't want to write.
Try math without understanding what a number is.
How can someone possibly write without knowing how to read?
How can someone read without knowing what the alphabet is?
Get real.
Your voice is ALWAYS there. You don't truly understand how to express it consistently until you grasp the structure.
I teach college students & I can assure you it is rare for them to write a coherent sentence much less a paper. It's beyond them.
They can't write because they don't read.
And they damn sure can't comprehend what they read.
They don't read because they are not required to read
In K-12.
And they want to be entertained 24-7.
They have been taught to be lazy, and could care less about doing the difficult & tedious work required to write. They complain, and complain and complain. "It's too hard," poor me, no one taught me. You would think they were being asked to write Moby Dick when they are assigned a 500 word essay.
They don't know how to act in a classroom & spend a lot of time in the victim role.
I don't give writing assignments because it's far too time consuming for me. And they could care less.
This is the outcome of defunding education, overloading teachers & students with tests, indulgent parents, the internet, & cell phones.
And finally, kids can't write because they don't want to write.
6
They COULDN'T care less, I think you mean.
4
They could not care less, I think you mean. (Contractions do not always make the point when being particular.)
1
The harm isn't stifling a child's voice by teaching them grammar. The harm is expecting a child to have an interesting, original voice before they've lived a life. This school of thought that the world would be better off if only we cultivated more narcissists is absurd. Teach them how to communicate, that way when they do finally find their voice (the scar tissue of life), other people can understand.
9
I never understood all the garbage methods of teaching writing- I learned grammar - sentence structure, diagramming sentences etc. I was taught the literary essay and the keyhole essay in high school and still use that basic structure when I write.
Then an English (oops, now ELA teacher) explained what happened. "Most English (ELA) teachers hate math. What is grammar? Math. A set of rules and requirements."
If you've been in education long enough, it makes a lot of sense.
Like most of the new "fixes" for all our educational ills, people are making money by putting a band-aid on a gushing artery. The problem never goes away with that approach, but people keep making money.
Then an English (oops, now ELA teacher) explained what happened. "Most English (ELA) teachers hate math. What is grammar? Math. A set of rules and requirements."
If you've been in education long enough, it makes a lot of sense.
Like most of the new "fixes" for all our educational ills, people are making money by putting a band-aid on a gushing artery. The problem never goes away with that approach, but people keep making money.
1
Oh, Lord, yet another amateur scholar of writing education somehow gets the soapbox and the megaphone. This author did an unusual amount of homework for such pieces, but the result remains a hodge-podge of established knowledge and mythic conjecture. There are people who actually command this subject. How about giving one of them the stage someday, for a change, New York Times? Good starts might be Kathleen Blake Yancey, Linda Adler-Kassner, or Doug Hesse. It's pretty hard to defend you against charges of "fake news" when what you publish about something I know reasonably well turns out to be at least 2/3 hokum.
2
The country isn't suffering from an excess of rationality.
1
I agree with j ro-go. If you don't read you can't write.
I believe it is that simple.
Enough with the big dollars to big corporations for their magical programs. Children need to read more . Parents need to converse with their children and engage with their children as much as they engage with their smart phones.
Will they all be Brontes or Hemingways? No, but they will be able to put thoughts together in a complete sentence. I bet the spelling and punctuation will be correct too. Amen.
I believe it is that simple.
Enough with the big dollars to big corporations for their magical programs. Children need to read more . Parents need to converse with their children and engage with their children as much as they engage with their smart phones.
Will they all be Brontes or Hemingways? No, but they will be able to put thoughts together in a complete sentence. I bet the spelling and punctuation will be correct too. Amen.
2
It breaks my heart to read these earnest, confused, misguided essays, and --my!-- have I read a lot of them. Teaching rhetoric, grammar, writing year after year and failing every day, so often with gratifying success, given the power to effect one change, I would abolish English departments.
Why? Because the very real people who flock to them proclaiming their joyous love of teaching are not temperamentally or intellectually suited to learning the basics of grammar. They hate it. They don't understand where it comes from, how it works, or what their students need it for. They cannot teach what they do not know, and what they "know" --often fervently-- is just plain dead wrong. Having no intuitive grasp of the meanings of the individual words construed before them, they will write "spit and image," and because someone tells them it is "correct," they will urge their students to do the same. English teachers acquire their misinformation about language learning just as they acquire their religion: from faith, from deeply heart-felt, unexamined and misunderstood belief that some things are just "right" and some other things are wrong, just plain not done by good people, people who are admired and better, much better than the lower classes, the parents, the aunts, the tribe they have loved in shame, while growing into a dialect foreign to their own ears but "right" in all the ways their native tongue was always wrong.
You think I've said enough? I've only just begun. GO TO #2.
Why? Because the very real people who flock to them proclaiming their joyous love of teaching are not temperamentally or intellectually suited to learning the basics of grammar. They hate it. They don't understand where it comes from, how it works, or what their students need it for. They cannot teach what they do not know, and what they "know" --often fervently-- is just plain dead wrong. Having no intuitive grasp of the meanings of the individual words construed before them, they will write "spit and image," and because someone tells them it is "correct," they will urge their students to do the same. English teachers acquire their misinformation about language learning just as they acquire their religion: from faith, from deeply heart-felt, unexamined and misunderstood belief that some things are just "right" and some other things are wrong, just plain not done by good people, people who are admired and better, much better than the lower classes, the parents, the aunts, the tribe they have loved in shame, while growing into a dialect foreign to their own ears but "right" in all the ways their native tongue was always wrong.
You think I've said enough? I've only just begun. GO TO #2.
36
I love teaching grammar and writing. I believe that they go hand in hand. I started out not knowing grammar even though my English teacher tried to teach me the basics when I was in high school. Once I started teaching, I taught myself and mastered grammar concepts and writing skills. I agree. Many English teachers do not want to teach grammar because they don't understand the rules and concepts. If I can be a grammar queen, so can anyone. It takes diligence and determination. Diagramming is helpful as it shows the relationships between words, phrases, and clauses. I am never bored with the wonders of the English language.
1
> Having no intuitive grasp of the meanings of the individual words construed before them, they will write "spit and image," and because someone tells them it is "correct," they will urge their students to do the same.
That is, in fact, the original phrase. Look it up!
That is, in fact, the original phrase. Look it up!
I taught high school mathematics for many years. Many of your points apply to that subject as well. Rather than presenting a conceptual understanding of mathematics, I've seen too many teachers asking students to memorize gimmicks as guaranteed ways of always getting the right answer. The problem? Memorizing a gimmick and not understanding why it works: Is it the denominator or the numerator that is multiplied to the whole number? And what the heck are denominators and numerators?
6
And these children finish college and become editors of Newspapers:
"American Bombers Fly Over Korea"
Headlines such as this are too often as far as the public gets, so whether it reads they flew over South Korea or the Korean Peninsula matters, as the latter allows the inference, based on saber rattling by President Trump, that Kim Jong-un flinched when faced by those B1s roaring overhead. In reality the planes flew far enough south of the DMZ that they weren't seen or heard by those in the sovereign autocracy to the North, possessing weaponry on hair trigger that can destroy the mega-city of Seoul.
Most newspapers and news programs, but not this one, used the geographic term, allowing the reader to decide whether the demonstration was over an allied nation or a breach of our enemy's air space. A meaningless stunt performed for domestic consumption should never be confused with a provocation that could trigger a catastrophe of unknowable proportions.
"American Bombers Fly Over Korea"
Headlines such as this are too often as far as the public gets, so whether it reads they flew over South Korea or the Korean Peninsula matters, as the latter allows the inference, based on saber rattling by President Trump, that Kim Jong-un flinched when faced by those B1s roaring overhead. In reality the planes flew far enough south of the DMZ that they weren't seen or heard by those in the sovereign autocracy to the North, possessing weaponry on hair trigger that can destroy the mega-city of Seoul.
Most newspapers and news programs, but not this one, used the geographic term, allowing the reader to decide whether the demonstration was over an allied nation or a breach of our enemy's air space. A meaningless stunt performed for domestic consumption should never be confused with a provocation that could trigger a catastrophe of unknowable proportions.
We know why kids can't write. It's unfair to minority students, so they stopped teaching it.
1
In the words of Tim Allen on Last Man Standing: "Oh look, a big, bloated government program that doesn't work."
traditional rules of grammar are considered adverse to a spontaneous tradition, and like all things, are part of the culture wars
2
I'm struggling here: Was the omission of the apostrophe in the word "can't" within the header image supposed to be tongue-in-cheek? Or further proof of the article?
2
1) Buy a copy of Strunk & White's THE ELEMENTS OF STYLE. Read it and keep on your desk. Refer to it often.
2) Learn how to diagram sentences. I learned this in the 7th grade and it still helps.
3) Learn to express your thoughts in more detail than a 140 character burst.
4) Read all kinds of good books. It will help you understand what a good sentence is and what a good paragraph sounds like.
5) If you don't know a word, look it up. To this day, I still look at a new word every day, now online from many sources.
2) Learn how to diagram sentences. I learned this in the 7th grade and it still helps.
3) Learn to express your thoughts in more detail than a 140 character burst.
4) Read all kinds of good books. It will help you understand what a good sentence is and what a good paragraph sounds like.
5) If you don't know a word, look it up. To this day, I still look at a new word every day, now online from many sources.
8
I don't know why, but my elementary school specifically skipped the chapters in our grammar textbook about diagramming sentences (which I remember thinking looked pretty cool). Today, as I try to learn Spanish, suddenly that visualization of sentence structure is helping my wife a lot as I struggle along behind.
1
I've probably spent too much time of my prof. life proof reading, but is it just that jaundiced eye of mine that grinds sandily on the animated cartoon correcting 'right' into 'write' but remain oblivious to 'cant' having to be 'can't' *or*, if not, the whole 'correction' being spurious, suddenly opens up 'kids' cant'..?
Grammar and syntax are deeply technical skills, and quick cartoons are...
Grammar and syntax are deeply technical skills, and quick cartoons are...
1
"Some say English instruction must get back to basics, with a focus on grammar. But won’t that stifle a student’s personal voice?"
Huh? Truly, this subhead is a dumb question.
It didn't stifle Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, Oscar Wilde, Edith Wharton, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Jack Kerouac, Patricia Highsmith, or Joyce Carol Oates. There are legions of great writers in the making, and always will be. Having grammar as a skill set will allow them to flourish—particularly in a world that needs fiction, if only to deal with a reality that is stranger still.
Huh? Truly, this subhead is a dumb question.
It didn't stifle Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, Oscar Wilde, Edith Wharton, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Jack Kerouac, Patricia Highsmith, or Joyce Carol Oates. There are legions of great writers in the making, and always will be. Having grammar as a skill set will allow them to flourish—particularly in a world that needs fiction, if only to deal with a reality that is stranger still.
8
"There’s no capital, there’s no period’ to say, ‘By God, you wrote a gorgeous sentence."
What? Are you kidding? I can't believe that's acceptable at any level. Why must we lower standards and change rules to allow 3rd rate mediocrity?
I know I'm will be categorized as a dinosaur but, our teachers in the 1950s and 1960s never would have let it pass that we didn't use capitals or periods even if the thought of the sentence was "gorgeous." We would have been instructed to fix our punctuation and capitalization. We may have been told the sentence was well meaning but that in order to pass muster it must be correct at all levels. Why are we lowering standards? To encourage half-way performance? That accomplishes nothing more than lowering standards.
I would encourage students to do well by telling them "This is a good start and your on your way to achieve excellence and reveal your full abilities. I know you can do higher level work and I will help you create sentences that need no correction and express the full meaning you intend." Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe that kids can't write because they can't read and don't do enough reading. Teachers need more time with children. I know some kids come to America and must learn English. My great grandparents didn't speak English and my grandmother didn't learn until she entered NY elementary school. But, she could form correct sentences and write very well complete with good grammar, correct punctuation and capitalization.
What? Are you kidding? I can't believe that's acceptable at any level. Why must we lower standards and change rules to allow 3rd rate mediocrity?
I know I'm will be categorized as a dinosaur but, our teachers in the 1950s and 1960s never would have let it pass that we didn't use capitals or periods even if the thought of the sentence was "gorgeous." We would have been instructed to fix our punctuation and capitalization. We may have been told the sentence was well meaning but that in order to pass muster it must be correct at all levels. Why are we lowering standards? To encourage half-way performance? That accomplishes nothing more than lowering standards.
I would encourage students to do well by telling them "This is a good start and your on your way to achieve excellence and reveal your full abilities. I know you can do higher level work and I will help you create sentences that need no correction and express the full meaning you intend." Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe that kids can't write because they can't read and don't do enough reading. Teachers need more time with children. I know some kids come to America and must learn English. My great grandparents didn't speak English and my grandmother didn't learn until she entered NY elementary school. But, she could form correct sentences and write very well complete with good grammar, correct punctuation and capitalization.
7
Why learn grammar? Try building a house without a frame, and see how sturdy it is.
9
By and large, I think I write reasonably well. However, I have no idea as to how that came about as I was taught pretty much the same way as everyone else was, starting with the 'Dick and Jane' readers, and then gradually on to more advanced books.
I always found grammar to be confusing and even today I probably would struggle to correctly identify all the parts of a sentence, though when I hear something I usually can tell, for the most part, if it is 'correct' English or not. And though I can usually tell you what is wrong, I can't always say why.
Maybe I just absorbed it from the conversations around me and what I read and saw on TV. But I really don't know.
I always found grammar to be confusing and even today I probably would struggle to correctly identify all the parts of a sentence, though when I hear something I usually can tell, for the most part, if it is 'correct' English or not. And though I can usually tell you what is wrong, I can't always say why.
Maybe I just absorbed it from the conversations around me and what I read and saw on TV. But I really don't know.
One of the worst topics that schools endlessly force on students is essay writing. There is no form so oversold (and very difficult to do) then essay writing. As a teacher I can see the attractiveness of it as a subject for teachers who do not understand what real writing is all about. Five parts, thesis statement, conclusion paragraph, etc etc.-- a formulaic approach that is mindless and completely wrong in its desire to teach effective writing. Go to any great writer who wrote any kind of essay and find me a single example that follows this approach, lock, stock, and barrel. You will not. You will find essay parts so described, but not in the slavish, five-paragraph, constricted form forced on hapless students. Take Norman Mailer, for example. To read one of his brilliant essays, "The Prisoner of Sex," which happens to be an entire book, is to experience a genius essay designed to counter the fallacious arguments of feminist Kate Millet, who decided to denigrate authors Henry Miller and D.H. Lawrence for their "sexist" views of women. Using his gifts of creative language and humorous argument, Mailer pulls apart every stupid, asinine, ignorant idea fomented by Millet and others. Or take Isaac Asimov and his two-paragraph essay about smart versus stupid people. And on and on. Why force the constricted five-paragraph essay on students? A student will only write something well if are interested in it. Without their intellectual passion on fire, whatever they write will be mud.
3
Here is a suggestion for teachers: Tell their students to read any article of their interest in the NYT which accepts comments, and ask them to write a comment afterwards. Goes without saying that students should revise and edit their comment before hitting the "submit" button. Writing short, concise comments to explain one's point of view is a great way to improve our writing skills!
2
My children learned how to write at home. By the time they started school, their classmates continually commented "you use big words". My wife and I refused to use "baby talk" or speak in unbelievably over-simplified sentences when we communicated with our daughters. Throughout school, they were accomplished writers, testing at least three grade levels higher than their current placement.
I did not give a flying rip about their "personal voice". Learn how to lay bricks, then you can build whatever house, wall or BBQ you like.
I did not give a flying rip about their "personal voice". Learn how to lay bricks, then you can build whatever house, wall or BBQ you like.
8
Why can't children write? Let's look at most adults' writing skills.
1
Could the author and/or editor AT LEAST respect the linebreaks in the Billy Collins poem? I can't believe you actually care about writing if you're deaf to the way Collins structures his poem. In fact, that suggests that the roots of the problem are deeper than the author can begin to perceive, since she and her editor are oblivious to something that Collins paid attention to.
1
My wife and I placed a premium on our children's ability to read and write. One game we played was "Find the typo in the New York Times." It doesn't happen often, but it got them to read the newspaper in the morning. A $5 typo finder's fee didn't hurt either!
2
Heck they'll be rich these days!
2
Ms. Goldstein, good article. Just for informational sake, since this is about writing and you're a journalist, and this article is informational, how about showing the readers how you gathered your data, put it in an outline and wrote it to the blank page. Could be a big help.
To thrive in the "real world," individuals need to write clear, concise, coherent grammatical expository prose, correctly spelled and properly punctuated. English teachers do a disservice to students and to society by amusing themselves through a focus on poetic self expression.
3
first, kids have trouble writing if they don't first read. if they're reading, they should catch on to what writing is supposed to turn out to be. if they're not first reading, they won't have a clue about writing when they have to do it themselves.
second, lots of college students, working adults, business executives, even engineers and scientists are functionally illiterate. but, boy, can they factor and do quadratic equations! it's a matter of what we deem important... kids pick up on things like that.
and, a lot of our American kids don't really know how to even speak standard English, and sure don't do it among themselves. this alone can be crippling when they're trying to get thoughts down on paper so that others can undrtstand them.
second, lots of college students, working adults, business executives, even engineers and scientists are functionally illiterate. but, boy, can they factor and do quadratic equations! it's a matter of what we deem important... kids pick up on things like that.
and, a lot of our American kids don't really know how to even speak standard English, and sure don't do it among themselves. this alone can be crippling when they're trying to get thoughts down on paper so that others can undrtstand them.
1
Grammar may stifle their poor little helicopter-parents' imbued ego...? Oh. My. Lord.
2
My wife and I are in our 70s now and both of us were graduate students (in Spanish).
It's been pretty depressing to observe the steady decline in spelling, grammar and writing. Just watching TV it appears that adverbs no longer exist or are required. Hearing the 'wreckanize' substitute 'recognize' and good and well used interchangeably is shocking. And don't get me started on 'it's' and how now so many people call multiple companies as 'company's'.
I worked for a major consulting company and I found myself (the old guy) having to proofread every proposal (usually hundreds of dense pages). Written by MBAs (I'm not...) yet filled with awful errors like 'pubic' instead of 'public' - multiple times! I chalked it up to utter trust in the computer spell check function.
It's been pretty depressing to observe the steady decline in spelling, grammar and writing. Just watching TV it appears that adverbs no longer exist or are required. Hearing the 'wreckanize' substitute 'recognize' and good and well used interchangeably is shocking. And don't get me started on 'it's' and how now so many people call multiple companies as 'company's'.
I worked for a major consulting company and I found myself (the old guy) having to proofread every proposal (usually hundreds of dense pages). Written by MBAs (I'm not...) yet filled with awful errors like 'pubic' instead of 'public' - multiple times! I chalked it up to utter trust in the computer spell check function.
4
They cannot write because they do not read more than 140 characters at a time and that is the way they write. Writing to High School students today is a string of emojis
2
Half the time the teachers can't write. Under these conditions what can we expect from students?
4
Teachers don't want to spend time reading and correcting papers on their "own" time, so they don't assign it.
1
Not teaching proper grammar because it may stifle creativity is insane. A classical composer doesn't know his scales but excels? A painter doesn't know the basics of color and form and creates magic? Give me a break. American kids who don't understand grammar and can't properly read and write. Well, welcome to failure. I lived in New Delhi for many years and marveled at the focus, determination and love of learning that I saw at the least "fortunate" school--with little ones straight through the upper grade. They arrived inspired---and hey, they respected knowledge, their teachers, and wanted to be the best. Our kids are coddled and told that it doesn't matter if you can't spell.. Unleash your creativity. Hah! Welcome to the dumbing down of America!
3
If a child is unable to write because they don't possess the tools and know how, regardless of the reasons why, then wouldn't their personal voice is stifled, regardless? Is this any different than handing a child a calculator and expecting them to perform calculus yet they never learned basic arithmetic, a.k.a., math?
6
Good grammar is the DNA of communication, and good organization is the form it takes. As a teacher of academic writing, I find that logical thinking is also foreign to many students.
Fundamental to all of this is control of subject matter. Nobody can write well without knowing "stuff," and here I turn to educators' specious (and often fallacious) positioning of "facts" against "concepts" in their endless debates about teaching. Without knowledge, grammar, and logical thinking: the outcome is almost always what Rachel Maddow likes to call "Bull pucky."
Fundamental to all of this is control of subject matter. Nobody can write well without knowing "stuff," and here I turn to educators' specious (and often fallacious) positioning of "facts" against "concepts" in their endless debates about teaching. Without knowledge, grammar, and logical thinking: the outcome is almost always what Rachel Maddow likes to call "Bull pucky."
1
This is NOT a new phenomenon. College professors have been bemoaning the lack of writing skills in incoming students for decades. 50 years ago, the first requirement of new college students was to take Remedial, 'Bonehead', English. And, the fault was always laid on lower level schools.
While the state of such skills may, however, be even lower than before, there are myriad reasons which didn't exist then. For one, a teacher in elementary or high school really can't teach writing if they themselves can't write. This leads to a downward spiral of skill - the blind leading the blind.
But, one major factor has to be technology and the limitations placed upon users by Tweets, emails, Instagrams, etc. Who can learn composition in the climate of BFF, BTW, OMG, LOL, and so on? Think that can be reversed? Not likely.
Thus we are left with only the actions that have been around for a while and the dedication to persevere. Keep on bitchin' and trying. It ain't grammar, folks. Diagramming sentences won't solve the problem. It never has before.
While the state of such skills may, however, be even lower than before, there are myriad reasons which didn't exist then. For one, a teacher in elementary or high school really can't teach writing if they themselves can't write. This leads to a downward spiral of skill - the blind leading the blind.
But, one major factor has to be technology and the limitations placed upon users by Tweets, emails, Instagrams, etc. Who can learn composition in the climate of BFF, BTW, OMG, LOL, and so on? Think that can be reversed? Not likely.
Thus we are left with only the actions that have been around for a while and the dedication to persevere. Keep on bitchin' and trying. It ain't grammar, folks. Diagramming sentences won't solve the problem. It never has before.
1
Children learn language and grammar and usage naturally from their parents and other caregivers beginning in infancy. If they learn to speak correctly they will easily learn to write correctly. If a person can't write a coherent sentence they probably can't speak coherently either.
We learn to identify the parts of speech later on so that we can refer to them and communicate about writing, but a first grader should already be speaking correctly and coherently. If parents can't teach their children to speak correctly those children will be at a disadvantage from early childhood. In this case preschool becomes especially important and preschool teachers should make sure their students are able to communicate effectively in grammactically correct sentences.
We learn to identify the parts of speech later on so that we can refer to them and communicate about writing, but a first grader should already be speaking correctly and coherently. If parents can't teach their children to speak correctly those children will be at a disadvantage from early childhood. In this case preschool becomes especially important and preschool teachers should make sure their students are able to communicate effectively in grammactically correct sentences.
1
I'm glad to see people actually care about this issue. (I was beginning to wonder if I was one of a very few).
Of course, when you see poor grammar, word choice (especially using the wrong word, etc.) is very common among newspaper articles (written and online), and more commonly in books, it's disturbing. It's as if people who are supposedly professional writers and editors are educated poorly in English writing (or that their bosses prefer word count over writing quality).
If adults can't generally write (or write poorly), little wonder kids can't write.
I was kind of shocked and insulted when as a college freshman, one of our first required tasks was to write a couple of paragraphs. Those freshmen deemed to have deficient writing skills would be mandated to take an extra "remedial English" class.) After Kate L. Turabian and footnoted term papers in public high school, this seemed ridiculous to me. I failed to grasp how little it took to graduate from high school, in some cases.
This was in 1977. Little did I realize how seriously the level of writing skills would decline over the next 40 years.
Don't students have to write papers in English class in high school any more? Does anyone (competent) correct these papers?
If not, little wonder writing skills are so poor. The wrong word is used on internet discussion posts so often that I get the impression that writing papers in high school surely must be a thing of the past.
Of course, when you see poor grammar, word choice (especially using the wrong word, etc.) is very common among newspaper articles (written and online), and more commonly in books, it's disturbing. It's as if people who are supposedly professional writers and editors are educated poorly in English writing (or that their bosses prefer word count over writing quality).
If adults can't generally write (or write poorly), little wonder kids can't write.
I was kind of shocked and insulted when as a college freshman, one of our first required tasks was to write a couple of paragraphs. Those freshmen deemed to have deficient writing skills would be mandated to take an extra "remedial English" class.) After Kate L. Turabian and footnoted term papers in public high school, this seemed ridiculous to me. I failed to grasp how little it took to graduate from high school, in some cases.
This was in 1977. Little did I realize how seriously the level of writing skills would decline over the next 40 years.
Don't students have to write papers in English class in high school any more? Does anyone (competent) correct these papers?
If not, little wonder writing skills are so poor. The wrong word is used on internet discussion posts so often that I get the impression that writing papers in high school surely must be a thing of the past.
2
I'm not an educator, so my advice is worth what you paid for it, but I think "practice, practice, practice" sums it up. Practice reading and practice writing. They reinforce one another.
I'm sure I got value out of the grammar classes I had in school, but they were horribly boring and only penetrated so deep. I believe that I got at least as much benefit from reading a lot of books and from frequent writing practice in school.
(I'm not suggesting dispensing with formal grammar training. I just believe that is woefully inadequate. Write, write, write. Learn by doing.)
I'm sure I got value out of the grammar classes I had in school, but they were horribly boring and only penetrated so deep. I believe that I got at least as much benefit from reading a lot of books and from frequent writing practice in school.
(I'm not suggesting dispensing with formal grammar training. I just believe that is woefully inadequate. Write, write, write. Learn by doing.)
Maybe there are other ways to learn to write well, but the one I am familiar with is to have a teacher who spends the time to read your writing and give you significant critical feedback--again, and again, and again. If a kid has several teachers throughout their public school career who do a good job of this, they are very, very lucky. Why? Because for one thing, it requires a skilled teacher. But probably the biggest impediment is that it is insanely time-consuming for the teacher. Excellent writing teachers don't get nearly as much credit as they deserve for all the work they do (and no, I'm not a writing teacher).
And yes, it is nice to be a talented creative writer. But more than that, the world desperately NEEDS people who can write clearly and concisely to communicate an idea.
And yes, it is nice to be a talented creative writer. But more than that, the world desperately NEEDS people who can write clearly and concisely to communicate an idea.
2
In my experience, people just don't care. In high school, college and grad school, I got several exchanges like this with my peers:
"Don't write, "its on the right". Write, 'It's on the right.'" "Who cares? Leave me alone. As long as people understand."
"It's not 'The game at it's best' but 'the game at its best'." "I like it better the other way." "But it's not a matter of preference. They actually mean different things." "I like it better the other way. I'll write it the way I want."
In general, people just don't care. They find that spelling mistakes and poor communication are marks of individuality. Often, the fact that individuality should be expressed within the constraints of clear communication is a concept that most people, particularly young or struggling people, are too frustrated to deal with.
I recently had two colleagues who worked in high tech, one in his late twenties, one in her early thirties, who were furious because they were asked to write documents with proper case and punctuation. They preferred to write in all lower case with almost no punctuation at all, except the odd period at the end of a sentence. When one was reminded that she was to write with proper case and punctuation she answered, "What? That wasn't a joke?"
Most people just don't care.
"Don't write, "its on the right". Write, 'It's on the right.'" "Who cares? Leave me alone. As long as people understand."
"It's not 'The game at it's best' but 'the game at its best'." "I like it better the other way." "But it's not a matter of preference. They actually mean different things." "I like it better the other way. I'll write it the way I want."
In general, people just don't care. They find that spelling mistakes and poor communication are marks of individuality. Often, the fact that individuality should be expressed within the constraints of clear communication is a concept that most people, particularly young or struggling people, are too frustrated to deal with.
I recently had two colleagues who worked in high tech, one in his late twenties, one in her early thirties, who were furious because they were asked to write documents with proper case and punctuation. They preferred to write in all lower case with almost no punctuation at all, except the odd period at the end of a sentence. When one was reminded that she was to write with proper case and punctuation she answered, "What? That wasn't a joke?"
Most people just don't care.
3
I'm gasping here. Grammar stifles voice? Tell that to Steinbeck, Hemingway, McCullers, Angelou, any writer since there's been an English grammar book. You have to know the rules to know how to break them effectively.
Regarding teachers and writing, I have this to say about that: My daughter's high school English teacher gave JUNIORS an assignment to write out definitions of a set of words. My daughter, an avid reader, was bored with that and instead used each word in a sentence that showed she understood the definition. That was a "fail" for that teacher. And that teacher was a "fail" in her chosen field as far as I'm concerned. That was 25 years ago. We can only have gone downhill since then. Sad.
Regarding teachers and writing, I have this to say about that: My daughter's high school English teacher gave JUNIORS an assignment to write out definitions of a set of words. My daughter, an avid reader, was bored with that and instead used each word in a sentence that showed she understood the definition. That was a "fail" for that teacher. And that teacher was a "fail" in her chosen field as far as I'm concerned. That was 25 years ago. We can only have gone downhill since then. Sad.
2
My dander, it is up. If your "personal voice" can't survive being filtered through standard English grammar and spelling, then your personal voice doesn't deserve to be heard.
Rules of language exist for the same reasons as rules of basketball or driving exist: in order to enable us to live together with some level of cooperation and communication. Rules of language are not designed to help the man keep you down or some such nonsense. You don't need wealth or power to learn English. All you need is the desire to communicate.
Rules of language exist for the same reasons as rules of basketball or driving exist: in order to enable us to live together with some level of cooperation and communication. Rules of language are not designed to help the man keep you down or some such nonsense. You don't need wealth or power to learn English. All you need is the desire to communicate.
1
I know this is going to be a real throwback to 19th century education, but I could *NEVER* successfully diagram a sentence, until the 10th grade when I started taking Latin. Within six months I was up there diagramming with the best of them. Tossing a year or two of the classics in to the 7/8th grade curriculum would be far from the worst of things to do. It can be fun, too. Everyone knows Latin teachers are a bit nuts; we were encouraged to throw ourselves into it and orate in full bedsheet and Christmas wreath. Good times, good education.
3
Teaching basic grammar and punctuation to elementary school students is the basis for teaching them how to write. After the basics have been internalized, say by seventh or eighth grade, it's time for them to learn how to diagram sentences. After students understand how sentences are constructed they will be able to write anything better than they could have before. Good writing is a skill they will use in every job they have as well as in writing about what inspires them.
2
I agree with the premise that good writers often absorb the rules of grammar instinctively more than they remember lessons on sentence mechanics, such as the technical definitions of terms such as "coördinating conjunction", "dependent clause", and "compound-complex sentence." But that doesn't mean that such concepts shouldn't be taught.
I was exposed to concepts such as the parts of speech in "Schoolhouse Rock" on Saturday mornings, long before I had to know them in school. So when I did encounter them, I had a good idea what some of them were, even if I didn't remember all of the details. And while sentence diagramming is very boring when you're ten or twelve years old, as an adult I found it an interesting tool for parsing the meanings of sentences written by people who should know how to write . . . and don't.
Remembering, and relearning the formal rules that I "sort of learned" in boring junior high school classes helps me understand why sentences mean what they do, helps understand the structure of meaning when I try to learn foreign languages, helps me be a better proofreader when I revise my own work and that of others.
Sometimes technical concepts need to be taught, not because everyone will remember, or correctly use them, but because exposure to them prepares us for a time when we need to create meaning, or need to figure out why something is right or wrong, and why. Boring it may be, but grammar is essential to understanding for both readers and writers.
I was exposed to concepts such as the parts of speech in "Schoolhouse Rock" on Saturday mornings, long before I had to know them in school. So when I did encounter them, I had a good idea what some of them were, even if I didn't remember all of the details. And while sentence diagramming is very boring when you're ten or twelve years old, as an adult I found it an interesting tool for parsing the meanings of sentences written by people who should know how to write . . . and don't.
Remembering, and relearning the formal rules that I "sort of learned" in boring junior high school classes helps me understand why sentences mean what they do, helps understand the structure of meaning when I try to learn foreign languages, helps me be a better proofreader when I revise my own work and that of others.
Sometimes technical concepts need to be taught, not because everyone will remember, or correctly use them, but because exposure to them prepares us for a time when we need to create meaning, or need to figure out why something is right or wrong, and why. Boring it may be, but grammar is essential to understanding for both readers and writers.
1
I agree that teaching grammar divorced from actual writing is not effective for improving writing for the majority of students, but, unfortunately, for nearly 50 years, that has meant teaching little or no grammar. This means if I comment on a student's essay, "Be careful with subject-verb agreement and be consistent in your use of tense," what the student reads is, "Be careful with gobblydegook gzornenplatz and be consistent in your use of gazockstahagen." Enough formal grammar should be taught so that students understand the vocabulary of grammar, but it must be combined with applied grammar--applied to both what is read and what is written.
3
Kids will write better when kids read more. There is no other way.
2
I believe the situation is far, far worse. It extends to a widespread inability to:
1) read aloud, to communicate the meaning and emotion of the text being read;
2) think clearly and logically in order to analyse problems;
3) hold extended non-superficial conversations;
4) conduct productive argumentation with people with whom one disagrees;
5) communicate meaning clearly in any mode: writing, speaking, music, art, etc.
These failings are all interconnected, and are due largely to two factors:
1) the switch from the partial dominance of "adult culture" with a large, but subordinate, space for childhood and adolescent peer culture, a situation which existed until the mid-70s, to the near-total dominance of "peer culture" with an ever-shrinking space for adult culture after that time;
2) the destructive so-called "progressive" educational and cultural reforms initiated by the leftist "Frankfurt School" in the 30s and adopted en-masse since the 70s, which have largely destroyed American education.
At present we are limping along with a shrinking pool of educated citizens, but our culture is slipping away like sand under our feet, and we are quickly headed towards the "two-class" future envisioned by HG Wells, except that our Eloi will be uneducated, unfit, video-gaming couch potatoes, and our Morlocks will be the fit, educated techies who hold the economy together.
1) read aloud, to communicate the meaning and emotion of the text being read;
2) think clearly and logically in order to analyse problems;
3) hold extended non-superficial conversations;
4) conduct productive argumentation with people with whom one disagrees;
5) communicate meaning clearly in any mode: writing, speaking, music, art, etc.
These failings are all interconnected, and are due largely to two factors:
1) the switch from the partial dominance of "adult culture" with a large, but subordinate, space for childhood and adolescent peer culture, a situation which existed until the mid-70s, to the near-total dominance of "peer culture" with an ever-shrinking space for adult culture after that time;
2) the destructive so-called "progressive" educational and cultural reforms initiated by the leftist "Frankfurt School" in the 30s and adopted en-masse since the 70s, which have largely destroyed American education.
At present we are limping along with a shrinking pool of educated citizens, but our culture is slipping away like sand under our feet, and we are quickly headed towards the "two-class" future envisioned by HG Wells, except that our Eloi will be uneducated, unfit, video-gaming couch potatoes, and our Morlocks will be the fit, educated techies who hold the economy together.
3
My favorite anecdote about teaching was told by Erik H. Erikson about his teacher Dr. Paul Federn. Professor Federn ended a series of seminars with the question: "Now--have I understood myself?". This remark applies as well to writing as to teaching. It seems to me that grammar is something that greatly aids us in understanding ourselves.
1
Its not that complicated. To gain proficiency at anything, just do a lot of it, and receive feed-back from proficient users. So to gain language skills, read, read, read. And write, receive good coaching, and repeat. One problem is that many teachers are themselves poor writers. And "social media" is an anti-social travesty.
It seems to me the bigger problem here is the disconnect between "writing" and "communicating." Just as math techniques without a connection to the real world are more difficult to appreciate and absorb, so too are lessons about the components of writing that are divorced from wanting to communicate an idea from one person to another. If students could be taught the conventions of writing as tools for improving communication and being better understood, rather than as arbitrary rules to pass exams or produce essays, perhaps they will see more value in it. When the goal of writing is to have a reader understand, then arbitrary rules to be endured become social contracts to be honored.
4
if you are concerned only with talking with other illiterates via texting and grunting as you stare at a phone, and never need to communicate with anyone who expects conventional common communication skills, you are sunk before you begin.
this is what we get for organizing ourselves so that there is no integration of kids and young people into the greater society; childhood as gulag.
look at the fractured sentence in the article concerning machines. I bet the kid wrote it this way because this is how he speaks, too.
Dr. Flesh, meet Dr. Frankenstein.
this is what we get for organizing ourselves so that there is no integration of kids and young people into the greater society; childhood as gulag.
look at the fractured sentence in the article concerning machines. I bet the kid wrote it this way because this is how he speaks, too.
Dr. Flesh, meet Dr. Frankenstein.
Absolutely. Students today write more than any generation since the invention of the telephone, and they communicate very effectively in text messages and social media. That, too, is writing, and it's writing that, for them, has a purpose and an identifiable audience, in genres students know and understand. But in school, they're given only opportunities to produce verbiage, divorced from any larger social context or function (aside from fulfilling a requirement). Research in fact tells us that students make a distinction between "writing"--something they do in response to an assignment, its only purpose to meet a word count while avoiding errors--and "communicating," which is what they see themselves doing when they text their friends or post in social media.
The obsession with grammar as a kind of panacea is part of the problem. Grammar is a gatekeeping mechanism and a stick with which to beat students. But grammar is always situational. What's "correct" in a formal essay isn't necessarily correct in a text message, and we need to give students credit for the grammars they know while helping them learn the grammars they'll need.
The obsession with grammar as a kind of panacea is part of the problem. Grammar is a gatekeeping mechanism and a stick with which to beat students. But grammar is always situational. What's "correct" in a formal essay isn't necessarily correct in a text message, and we need to give students credit for the grammars they know while helping them learn the grammars they'll need.
When I went to high school, I was as likely to have my grammar or spelling corrected by my History teacher as by my English teacher. Just as parents teach their young children to correctly say individual words, all teachers (and parents) should continue to shape their kids' spoken and written language. If it's incorrect, fix it. No departmental boundaries. It takes a village.
6
After writing professionally for more than 20 years, I saw that young people were no longer learning to write well — even if that meant only transmitting their ideas cogently. So I returned to graduate school to earn a master's in the teaching of writing.
I was surprised at the anti-structuralist trend that dominated writing education in the '80s. Later, I earned a Ph.D. in rhetoric and composition, with a dissertation that looked at the congruencies between how we want college — and high school — students to write and how professional writers and communicators write.
But the humanities don't care to much for practicalities. Thus, the model for most high school English teachers is literature. They love to read and want their students to love books too.
Yet writing literature is far different from writing essays. Denying students the opportunity to learn the structure of writing is akin to teaching architecture students to design houses without learning about construction or building materials.
If the curriculum for students in English education includes one class in the teaching of writing, that same student will take many courses in literature.
And even at the university level, composition courses are largely taught by graduate students and adjunct faculty, whose background in the teaching of writing is limited.
Mathematicians don't teach physics even though both use numbers. And literature teachers shouldn't be teaching writing just because they know how to read.
I was surprised at the anti-structuralist trend that dominated writing education in the '80s. Later, I earned a Ph.D. in rhetoric and composition, with a dissertation that looked at the congruencies between how we want college — and high school — students to write and how professional writers and communicators write.
But the humanities don't care to much for practicalities. Thus, the model for most high school English teachers is literature. They love to read and want their students to love books too.
Yet writing literature is far different from writing essays. Denying students the opportunity to learn the structure of writing is akin to teaching architecture students to design houses without learning about construction or building materials.
If the curriculum for students in English education includes one class in the teaching of writing, that same student will take many courses in literature.
And even at the university level, composition courses are largely taught by graduate students and adjunct faculty, whose background in the teaching of writing is limited.
Mathematicians don't teach physics even though both use numbers. And literature teachers shouldn't be teaching writing just because they know how to read.
4
We need a blended approach that grants students autonomy and instructs them in the structured analytical discipline of writing. Mature writing is just that: a blend of craft and creativity.
Oh, and let me say that posture changes based on content, media, and the author's preferences. We have many forms of creating narratives. Exercise more that one and the human experience will be richer for it all.
Oh, and let me say that posture changes based on content, media, and the author's preferences. We have many forms of creating narratives. Exercise more that one and the human experience will be richer for it all.
I don't hear anyone complaining about the repetitive exercises a pro athlete or pro dancer has to do to become a pro. I also don't hear any coaches or team owners or dance company directors eliminating routine exercise from athletes' and dancers' daily lives. Grammar and spelling are the muscle upon which language is built. So, people, get over yourselves and get some language muscle.
15
At our local public school, our two children started writing sentences and short compositions in second grade of the "draw a picture and write 3 sentences about it" sort. They were gently corrected for grammar and spelling and the composition requirements became longer, the sentence structure requirements more complex, and the spelling and grammar corrections more rigorous. Writing skills work sheets with grammar and puncuation drills were part of this as well. Their writing skill seemed to be almost organic in its growth and I marvelled at the teachers' methods and skill. The same methods seem to continue through the grade levels with increasing requirements. Is this not the process still? If not, why not? Is there something wrong with this methodology?
2
The solution for better writing is better reading, especially of the classics.
2
In the current climate maybe it doesn't matter. Stephen Miller just talked about a conversation about Americans deciding "to whom they want to give green cards to." His title is Senior Adviser to the President of the United States, and I'm sure there is a salary and there are perquisites and benefits that match that title.
Miller was trying to sound like more of an authority on immigration than he really is. But his position is such that he gets to make those decisions, not someone who knows the subject better.
So why does it matter how people write if we don't hire the best people for the highest positions in the first place?
Miller was trying to sound like more of an authority on immigration than he really is. But his position is such that he gets to make those decisions, not someone who knows the subject better.
So why does it matter how people write if we don't hire the best people for the highest positions in the first place?
Wait a second. What does this have to do with STEM studies? Confused. Shutting down now.
1
Apparently I write well now, or so my daughter the novelist and my wife the English major tell me. My high school in Palo Alto did not teach me to write. Four years at Stanford did not either. I finally learned to write on my own simply because I had to. Even as a software developer you cannot do any significant job well without being able to write clearly.
The Ed establishment fails to teach writing for the simple reason that they teach it as part of Literature, with a capital L. The phase "you wrote a gorgeous sentence" is the giveaway. It's a wonderful if you can write a beautiful sentence, with flowing vivid descriptions, but that's the gravy. The meat is to be able write clearly. Teach that first and relentlessly. Learning write clearly is equivalent to teaching people to think clearly.
The teaching of writing needs to diffused into every part of the curriculum. Teach kids to write lab reports, describe math proofs. Ask 8 year olds to describe how to do addition. Writing is present in every task, teach it that way.
The Ed establishment fails to teach writing for the simple reason that they teach it as part of Literature, with a capital L. The phase "you wrote a gorgeous sentence" is the giveaway. It's a wonderful if you can write a beautiful sentence, with flowing vivid descriptions, but that's the gravy. The meat is to be able write clearly. Teach that first and relentlessly. Learning write clearly is equivalent to teaching people to think clearly.
The teaching of writing needs to diffused into every part of the curriculum. Teach kids to write lab reports, describe math proofs. Ask 8 year olds to describe how to do addition. Writing is present in every task, teach it that way.
8
When I think of the great American writers, those individuals with unique and powerful voices, people like Mark Twain, Dashiell Hammett and Maya Angelou, I am so grateful they weren't subjected to the soul stifling experience of learning how to write a grammatically correct sentence.
Think of the loss it would have meant to our society had they not had to learn the basic principles of verbal communication.
Look at my own 2 sentences above. How tragic. I have written 2 rather long and complicated sentences expressing rather long and complicated ideas, clearly structured according to the rules. Just think of what I might have been able to communicate if I too had not had a comprehensive language education.
(Okay, I posted this earlier today and got 2 replies from people who thought I was serious about Twain et al. Apparently the sarcasm I'd intended didn't come through. Twain, Hammett and Angelou were writers of tremendous skill, with a mastery of their tools, no doubt obtained through a great deal of education, study and practice, as well as through talent. Grammar, proper sentence construction, the well formed paragraph, the controlled flow of ideas from one paragraph to the next ... This gives POWER to self-expression. It is absurd to think that a strong grasp of the structure of language stifles self-expression. Show me a pianist who can play Chopin but who can't play a scale, or an Olympic gymnast who never learned proper technique but simply "wings it" each time.)
Think of the loss it would have meant to our society had they not had to learn the basic principles of verbal communication.
Look at my own 2 sentences above. How tragic. I have written 2 rather long and complicated sentences expressing rather long and complicated ideas, clearly structured according to the rules. Just think of what I might have been able to communicate if I too had not had a comprehensive language education.
(Okay, I posted this earlier today and got 2 replies from people who thought I was serious about Twain et al. Apparently the sarcasm I'd intended didn't come through. Twain, Hammett and Angelou were writers of tremendous skill, with a mastery of their tools, no doubt obtained through a great deal of education, study and practice, as well as through talent. Grammar, proper sentence construction, the well formed paragraph, the controlled flow of ideas from one paragraph to the next ... This gives POWER to self-expression. It is absurd to think that a strong grasp of the structure of language stifles self-expression. Show me a pianist who can play Chopin but who can't play a scale, or an Olympic gymnast who never learned proper technique but simply "wings it" each time.)
3
I was a non-English speaker when I came to the US from Asia for grad school. Over the years, as the need for my assignments, I did quite some engineering writings. Nowadays I believe my English writing is decent. I also notice my English writing helps me to do good writing in my original language.
I think there are four levels of discipline for English writings.
The first level is to use the right words. One needs to know the meaning of the words “there” and “their”, or “write” and “right”.
The second level is to use the right grammar. There are grammars within a sentence, and grammars between sentences. The formers are available in lots of grammar books. The latter involves mostly pronounces such as “he” and “that”. Writers need to ensure whether the meaning of pronounces in subsequent sentences are clear, with respect to descriptions in previous sentences.
The third level is to present idea(s) in good ways within an article. That (good presentation) may involve how to construct a good opening statement, a good conclusion, etc.
The fourth level involves coming up with good ideas.
The first two levels are the languages foundations we are supposed to learn from elementary and middle schools. The fourth level relates to “creativity” and I wonder whether that is something teachable.
It is the third level that I believe is keys to good writings, and can be taught in high schools.
I think there are four levels of discipline for English writings.
The first level is to use the right words. One needs to know the meaning of the words “there” and “their”, or “write” and “right”.
The second level is to use the right grammar. There are grammars within a sentence, and grammars between sentences. The formers are available in lots of grammar books. The latter involves mostly pronounces such as “he” and “that”. Writers need to ensure whether the meaning of pronounces in subsequent sentences are clear, with respect to descriptions in previous sentences.
The third level is to present idea(s) in good ways within an article. That (good presentation) may involve how to construct a good opening statement, a good conclusion, etc.
The fourth level involves coming up with good ideas.
The first two levels are the languages foundations we are supposed to learn from elementary and middle schools. The fourth level relates to “creativity” and I wonder whether that is something teachable.
It is the third level that I believe is keys to good writings, and can be taught in high schools.
1
The American English language education began to collapse when NCTE decided that grammar was "physically harmful" to students and needed to be removed from the classroom. The claim was based on a flawed "study" done by Harris, a British, a "study" that was misread and misinterpreted by the American English language "experts ." Although the flaws in Harris's "study" were shown right away, the false idea had caught, and it has remained.
We are facing now the disastrous and irreparable consequences that have followed that approach in the teaching of the English language - ILLITERACY at all levels, starting in the 1st grade and continuing beyond the PhD level.
Those who teach English composition in college now must be familiar with the total writing ineptitude displayed by 95% of the freshmen who attend their classes. I know that from personal teaching experience that has been even more painful because in Romania I have studied the Romanian grammar for 12 years, the Russian grammar for 8 years, the French and Latin grammars for 4 years - all in the Romanian public school, while in the United Stated I specialized in the English language by obtaining two Linguistics degrees, a B.A. and an M.A.
We are facing now the disastrous and irreparable consequences that have followed that approach in the teaching of the English language - ILLITERACY at all levels, starting in the 1st grade and continuing beyond the PhD level.
Those who teach English composition in college now must be familiar with the total writing ineptitude displayed by 95% of the freshmen who attend their classes. I know that from personal teaching experience that has been even more painful because in Romania I have studied the Romanian grammar for 12 years, the Russian grammar for 8 years, the French and Latin grammars for 4 years - all in the Romanian public school, while in the United Stated I specialized in the English language by obtaining two Linguistics degrees, a B.A. and an M.A.
1
in suburban, northern nj, my daughter's 8th grade language arts teacher was so clueless in her own grammar knowledge that she taught the grammar curriculum by not teaching any of it herself and having the class watch instructional grammar videos for 2 weeks. her knowledge and ability highlighted itself during a discussion analyzing "to kill a mockingbird". there is a passage discussing how atticus finch was poor growing up and had to save what money he could. the passage says before atticus could practice law, he had to practice economy. she told the class this meant that before his job as a lawyer, he worked as an economist studying the economy.
several years after Pluto was downgraded to dwarf planet status, my daughter told me she had to know all 9 planets for tomorrow's test. I told her there are only 8. she said teacher says Pluto is a planet. I emailed the teacher to make sure he was aware of Pluto's current classification. he responded that because their textbooks were a few years old and did not reflect the ACTUAL status, he was teaching what was in the textbook.
in our highly rated suburban school, the real issue is not whether or not something should be taught. the issue is that many of the teachers are unable to teach it.
but tenure is a good thing, no?
several years after Pluto was downgraded to dwarf planet status, my daughter told me she had to know all 9 planets for tomorrow's test. I told her there are only 8. she said teacher says Pluto is a planet. I emailed the teacher to make sure he was aware of Pluto's current classification. he responded that because their textbooks were a few years old and did not reflect the ACTUAL status, he was teaching what was in the textbook.
in our highly rated suburban school, the real issue is not whether or not something should be taught. the issue is that many of the teachers are unable to teach it.
but tenure is a good thing, no?
5
I'm a relative old-timer. I studied grammar in 7th and 8th grades. I doubt any of us enjoyed diagramming sentences, but many years later I was grateful for that instruction. I was already a certified teacher when I took classes in teaching English as a Second Language. In a class of about 12 students, there was one other student who was "older," and who had also had grammar instruction. The rest of the teacher-students were young, mostly in their late twenties and thirties. None of them had any idea what an adverb is or what function it performs in a sentence. The class instructor had to spend far too much valuable classroom time teaching the youngsters some rudimentary grammar, so they could understand the focus of that class -- grammar. It was frustrating. Instead of learning how to teach, I spent my time tutoring the young teachers in something I had learned decades ago. They, too, were frustrated.
In my own classroom, I was often saddened by the inability of high school students to express themselves in writing. Frequently, sentences were completely unintelligible. When I asked the writer what s/he meant, I would get a blank look and a shrug of the shoulders. I learned that writing clearly helps one think clearly. Grammar is not exciting, but not knowing grammar is a real handicap.
In my own classroom, I was often saddened by the inability of high school students to express themselves in writing. Frequently, sentences were completely unintelligible. When I asked the writer what s/he meant, I would get a blank look and a shrug of the shoulders. I learned that writing clearly helps one think clearly. Grammar is not exciting, but not knowing grammar is a real handicap.
5
Catholic School, 6th grade, diagramming sentences with Sister Fleurette. I was not tortured into learning how to write grammatically correct sentences, nor was I stifled in my creativity. I happily learned what I now know was the foundation for the competent writing that I enjoy doing every day. I teach writing to college students who, as young adults, find the task laborious because they never learned the fundamentals in grammar school. I say, thank you Sister Fleurette (I only regret that I never told her this while she was still alive and kicking). Today I can express myself confidently when writing to others. I haven't written the next great novel yet, but I can whisk off a letter to the local paper whenever I need to let my local legislators know I'm paying attention!
As a Human Resources Manager, I always looked for a candidate who could write clearly. If you can write clearly, the odds are that you can think clearly. Clear thinking and critical reasoning are vital skills for success in the workplace. And they are not teachable through on-the-job training. Writing well should not be seen as the antithesis of artistic creativity. It should be seen as the foundation on which creative expression can be developed.
9
It is as unnatural to be uncomfortable about the writing process as to have difficulty herding cattle. If you said that the cattle just went where you wanted them to go, it would be obvious that you were lying. Words and sentences are general constructions, but you must adopt them to your specific purpose.
In order to aim a gun or drive a car, you need practice in pointing it and seeing where it goes. In order to write you need to read. When you read, you need to be aware of where the words point and to sense your own difficulty in following them to your destination. It is a struggle to herd words in the right direction.
In order to aim a gun or drive a car, you need practice in pointing it and seeing where it goes. In order to write you need to read. When you read, you need to be aware of where the words point and to sense your own difficulty in following them to your destination. It is a struggle to herd words in the right direction.
3
The issue is that most education programs don't employ the strategies that speech-language pathology research has shown to be important in structuring and implementing written instruction, and that teachers are not adequately trained to be practitioners of this science.
The science is clear: children need support on grammar as well as explicit training on written structures and conventions, and they should get feedback on content and form at separate junctures.
The science is clear: children need support on grammar as well as explicit training on written structures and conventions, and they should get feedback on content and form at separate junctures.
2
From a 30-year veteran educator: I agree with commenters who said that READING GOOD WRITING is the best training for making good writers. But if you want students to learn and use grammar to write better, you need to teach them a different language such as Latin where grammar becomes a relevant and realistic tool for comprehension. They can then map their skill of grammar analysis onto English and the resulting perspective on English that is created through the second language allows them to analyze, manipulate and (as a result) write English better. Teaching English grammar to native speakers is most of the time by itself worse than useless, because students have no intrinsic motivation to retain the knowledge and it stays abstract, opaque, and a punishment rather than a tool or practical skill.
5
Honestly, you are quite out to lunch. Diagramming sentences and learning the grammar of my native language, English, was essential in teaching me how to write. Those tools, coupled with frequent writing assignments in grade and high schools allowed me to feel comfortable with writing when I attended college and beyond. Feeling comfortable is key,
Am I a great writer? No, but I am an effective writer. When I write something and ask others to read it, they understand what I am saying, and they get it without having to wade through poor grammar and dismal sentence structure. Do people swoon at my brilliant lyricism? No, they don't. But they understand what I write. Communication has occurred. Isn't that the point?
Grammatically correct writing is essential. Sure, I get: "Plants need water it need sun to." I can work it out. But I get: "Plants need water and sun, too" a whole lot quicker. I don't have to figure anything out, I just get it. That's what learning grammar does. No one needs to learn a second language to benefit from studying grammar.
Am I a great writer? No, but I am an effective writer. When I write something and ask others to read it, they understand what I am saying, and they get it without having to wade through poor grammar and dismal sentence structure. Do people swoon at my brilliant lyricism? No, they don't. But they understand what I write. Communication has occurred. Isn't that the point?
Grammatically correct writing is essential. Sure, I get: "Plants need water it need sun to." I can work it out. But I get: "Plants need water and sun, too" a whole lot quicker. I don't have to figure anything out, I just get it. That's what learning grammar does. No one needs to learn a second language to benefit from studying grammar.
2
Other school districts may differ, but most schools use a process approach. I remember about 25 years ago, when the school district I taught at threw out the grammar books for the process approach. Parts of it made sense; do more writing and you will become better at it. Students wrote and expressed themselves; errors in spelling or grammar were corrected by the teacher's editing. The assumption was that kids would automatically begin to self edit after seeing the same errors repeatedly edited by the teacher. That proved to be wishful thinking. In peer editing, also known as the blind leading the blind, students shared work with each other. Our curriculum advised us to take small groups who all had the same error patterns, and give a mini lesson on that topic. This resulted in a haphazard approach to grammar and punctuation.
Students wrote "stories" very early, sometimes in kindergarten, so knowledge of letter formation, grammar, sentence structure and spelling was weak. I think this formed habits that were hard to break. As there was no structure or organization of the writing mini lessons, a teacher never knew what the students had learned in previous years.
Students wrote "stories" very early, sometimes in kindergarten, so knowledge of letter formation, grammar, sentence structure and spelling was weak. I think this formed habits that were hard to break. As there was no structure or organization of the writing mini lessons, a teacher never knew what the students had learned in previous years.
1
My experience too. Hogwash
One thing that's interesting to me in reading through the comments on this is how many have extracted an either/or philosophy from it. The article explicitly points toward "a synthesis of the two approaches." In addition, it cites specific examples of both Writing Project teachers mentioned using sentences from literature to teach grammar, analyzing an essay for effectiveness, and having teacher participants in the summer workshop revise their pieces, where many would argue the heavy lifting of writing, of refining language and ideas, lies.
1
Here's where the revision process plays. Once a child has constructed a sentence, they can discuss it with their peers. They need modes of how to talk about each other's writings. That's where the teacher and class mentors can help. Straight forward cognitive development work.
I used both methods when I taught writing in the high school classroom. Free writing and use of graphic organizers to brainstorm. Then, main idea and selecting supporting details. Also, basic grammar lessons starting with, "What's the subject of this sentence?" Amazingly enough, most high school students needed to start there, so we could move forward to issues like subject verb agreement and different ways to properly combine sentences. Also, I agree with those people pointing out that writing essays is deeply connected to logic and reasoning. I had to explicitly teach different methods of reasoning like cause and effect, contrasting, and the like. Finally, my students (even when I taught Freshman Comp at the college level) struggled the most with composing their own sentence encapsulating their main idea--for a paragraph or for an entire essay. Synthesis seemed entirely new to them as a mental discipline, so we need to do more of that in schools, too--teaching kids da to figure out the main idea of what they have read as well as their main idea about it.
The article states, "There is a virulent debate about what approach is best."
It then goes on to describe contrary viewpoints and approaches, each with its adherents.
You are correct that it also discusses people who have a more balanced view.
The either/or philosophy you noticed in the comments seems also to exist among some educators.
It then goes on to describe contrary viewpoints and approaches, each with its adherents.
You are correct that it also discusses people who have a more balanced view.
The either/or philosophy you noticed in the comments seems also to exist among some educators.
My younger sister, born in 1955, went all the way through high school and college (as an English major) without ever learning the parts of speech other than noun and verb. How can you put a sentence together if you don't know what the parts are?
I truly believe that a day or two of sentence diagramming can make the light bulb go off for many students. French children learn French grammar. Why not us? (Yes, I'm aware I sound like Henry Higgins. But he was right.)
And yes, cursive has completely disappeared from the curriculum in most California schools. Sad!
I truly believe that a day or two of sentence diagramming can make the light bulb go off for many students. French children learn French grammar. Why not us? (Yes, I'm aware I sound like Henry Higgins. But he was right.)
And yes, cursive has completely disappeared from the curriculum in most California schools. Sad!
3
Where did your sister go to school? I was born around the same time and went to a Catholic Grammar School and learned all the parts of speech.
Like uptalk?
Like nowadays?
Like grammar?
Like it's changing?
Like nowadays?
Like grammar?
Like it's changing?
1
If they can not write just how are they to express "their personal voice" C'mon man. Stop this nonsense that "the old way" has no place in the modern world. Use a calculator -- you do not have to know how to add.
You do not have to know simple English constructions, language, syntax.
Back to Basics I say, and not soon enough!@!
You do not have to know simple English constructions, language, syntax.
Back to Basics I say, and not soon enough!@!
3
Right on, Richard! I have calculators, but prefer to do calculations by hand - ahem, with pen and paper. Not only do I enjoy it, I am hoping it helps keeps my brain from turning to mush before its' time.
Whether someone is a writer or an artist they need to know the rules down pat before they start breaking them. e e cummings didn't drop capitalization because he didn't know how to use it. Pablo Picasso didn't deconstruct the human form in cubism because he didn't know how to draw the human figure. The idea that teaching and making children learn rules of grammar is somehow going to stifle their creativity is absurd and just the latest example of the dumbing down of America.
7
You have to learn the tools before you master the craft. And without craft, art and expression are vapid.
7
Years ago, I work in an upscale art gallery whose location attracted tourists more than locals. Our managing director was fluent in Spanish and Italian as well as English. One of his duties was to assist the consultants who were English-only speakers with our international visitors. An elegant older couple, beautifully dressed and obvious sophisticates, were looking at some artistic jewelry. The director nodded at me and we both approached them. They did speak quite good English but he knew his Castilian Spanish would make our gallery more inviting. They made a lovely selection and said their goodbyes; it was a refreshing hour of good faith and shared aesthetics.
One of my colleagues, a Puerto Rican chap, was fluent in Spanish. I asked the director as a follow-up to the departed couple, whose Spanish he lauded as superb, how my colleague's Spanish was. He made two comments: one, it was passable and two, he doesn't know how to use the subjunctive. And I find that becoming truer and truer for American English writers and speakers. Using the subjunctive correctly reveals a somewhat subtle knowledge that a reader or listener in the know would unconsciously judge as educated. My parents always wanted my usage to be accurate and my vocabulary precise but engaging. I've always found their goal a worthy one.
One of my colleagues, a Puerto Rican chap, was fluent in Spanish. I asked the director as a follow-up to the departed couple, whose Spanish he lauded as superb, how my colleague's Spanish was. He made two comments: one, it was passable and two, he doesn't know how to use the subjunctive. And I find that becoming truer and truer for American English writers and speakers. Using the subjunctive correctly reveals a somewhat subtle knowledge that a reader or listener in the know would unconsciously judge as educated. My parents always wanted my usage to be accurate and my vocabulary precise but engaging. I've always found their goal a worthy one.
6
If children were taught the proper use of the subjunctive, they would know it.
7
I teach college level screenwriting. Screenplays usually have a particular form and follow a particular structure. I believe that my students must understand these forms and structures thoroughly before they make a conscious choice to move away from them. Those who don't tend to write gibberish. In short, one needs to learn the basics before subverting them.
6
U read, u write. Repeat.
8
"But in general, when it comes to assessing student work, she said, “I had to teach myself to look beyond ‘There’s no capital, there’s no period’ to say, ‘By God, you wrote a gorgeous sentence.’ ”
I've done this too, focused on what I think was meant rather than what was written. But I've learned what a disservice it is to teach students that it's their ideas that matter and not whether anyone else will ever be able to discern what those ideas are. Sentences, meaning, clarity, coherence all matter. They matter deeply. Without a command of complex written language, studies have shown, one cannot even have the thoughts from which such complexity is expressed. That is a tragedy.
I've done this too, focused on what I think was meant rather than what was written. But I've learned what a disservice it is to teach students that it's their ideas that matter and not whether anyone else will ever be able to discern what those ideas are. Sentences, meaning, clarity, coherence all matter. They matter deeply. Without a command of complex written language, studies have shown, one cannot even have the thoughts from which such complexity is expressed. That is a tragedy.
15
People have complained about declining writing skills for literally hundreds of years--Harvard professors in the 1800s were complaining about the lowering skills of incoming freshmen. The percentage of people attending college is so much higher now, you see stuff like the ACT essay section example. People have always written poorly like that, though. They just didn't take the standardized tests that memorized it or go to college in the past.
1
Ms. Wanzer points directly to the heart of the matter: “You hope that by exposing them to great writing, they’ll start to hear what’s going on.” Good writers were good readers first. I raised my son to love reading, and when the time came to write essays for school, I advised him to read his own words out loud as he wrote. He could hear when something was wrong, then work at finding out why.
6
It's unlikely that students will ever write well if they don't read a lot. There are exceptions, but I'm pretty sure this is true.
One way to go is to make testing emphasize essay writing. As a kicker, require them to write in long-hand. They're going to need that skill whether they think so or not. And, start it early. I would say: 4th grade. Yes, make it a sink or swim proposition. The teacher says, "You think you have a good idea or know the answer to a question (or have a question want to ask), show it to me on paper, or I won't see it, and you have to learn to say it in good form."
Tough, eh? That's right, but getting them out of the computer or smart phone which they no doubt know very well, is the only way
One way to go is to make testing emphasize essay writing. As a kicker, require them to write in long-hand. They're going to need that skill whether they think so or not. And, start it early. I would say: 4th grade. Yes, make it a sink or swim proposition. The teacher says, "You think you have a good idea or know the answer to a question (or have a question want to ask), show it to me on paper, or I won't see it, and you have to learn to say it in good form."
Tough, eh? That's right, but getting them out of the computer or smart phone which they no doubt know very well, is the only way
4
added benefit: no spell check. omg, we need 2 kno how 2 spl?
I didn't find my own voice until late in life, mostly because as a youngster and young adult I didn't engage in important issues. But once I matured enough to actually have a thought or two that was worth communicating, I was able to tell the story share my ideas in complete sentences and well-organized paragraphs. Thank the nuns in my catholic school for teaching correct spelling and grammar.
4
Stifle the personal voice? If anything, proper writer empowers the personal voice. Otherwise, the message disappears in muddled sentences, misspellings and poor structure.
8
Real simple: teachers that can write and are given time to teach it, and hard work grading short papers . Students who do not respond go rapidly into remedial classes. Teachers who do not respond... .
2
The CAREFUL WRITER, Theodore M. Bernstein, stresses keeping your objective in mind. It is the only one I know of. This focus makes it very useful. It is not PC in at lease two places, and he lost the fight to get rid of "whom". Still it is an excellent guide.
1
The best English teacher I had in high school gave two separate letter grades (A+ through F) on all of the essays we wrote for him - one grade for content, the other for grammar and spelling. If an essay contained either a sentence fragment or a comma splice, it got a grammar grade of F and the notation CS or SF on it in big red letters. Our class quickly learned to avoid these errors, and I think we all learned how to express ourselves clearly and concisely.
6
For every 10 minutes of focused writing, there should be 50 minutes of high interest, uninterrupted, long form reading. English classes need to be longer to facilitate more free reading. Students will not read at home. Schools should invest more in relevant in-class libraries, and less in tech. The libraries should be restocked monthly--new novels, nonfiction, magazines. Current, relevant, accessible, interesting, easy reading should be the foundation to better writing. Structure writing instruction around big chunks of in-class reading. Then do your grammar diagrams.
5
RIP the word "fewer", as the word "less" seems to have stomped it out even in news shows and ads. I guess the dilemma of having to choose between "fewer" and "less" is not a problem if the students aren't even being taught the correct use of commas and adverbs.
3
This is not a new phenomenon. Ever since our Government Indoctrination Centers (Public Schools) ceded control to the Teacher's Unions our educational institutions have been in decline. There was hope when the public demanded teacher accountability. However, when children started failing, and not being promoted to the next grade, parents voted to end accountability. Here in Florida our 12th graders can graduate if they can pass a 10th grade reading test! To make matters worse we are now seeing College majors on everything from Video Gaming to Micro Aggression! Even more frightening is that these young adults have no connection to our historical heritage, cannot speak coherently or think independently. A majority of them do not know who Adolf Hitler was, while receiving a majority of their news and information from opionists masquerading as journalists and late night comedians/actors pretending to be intellectuals! Unfortunately, the plummet is likely to continue as social media become even more the center of our young people's lives, and our political establishment continues to degenerate from consensus into sectarianism. If you think Donald Trump is the end of the world, just wait until some air brained rock star get elected President. Like, uh, ya know...
4
And when these poorly prepared college "grads" can't get a decent job, they blame "the man", "the system", and join the ranks of aggrieved Democrats. Unionized teachers replicating the income unequals.
1
I couldn't agree more. Recently I spoke to a young adult about wanting to see the new Nolan movie "Dunkirk." His eyes glazed over. He didn't even recognize the name, let alone its place in World War II. He was a native speaker of English who had lived in this country all his life. Without facility in language and historical context, we are not preparing our young people to fulfill their responsibilities as knowledgeable and capable citizens. I fear we are entertaining ourselves to death.
1
"So-called process writing, like the lesson Lyse experienced in Long Island..."
*On Long Island, please.
*On Long Island, please.
The heck with good grammar. What American kids need are lessons in thinking and logic. Good grammar and correct spelling are pointless if ideas are dumb. And we need a radical change in spelling, breaking away from the stupidity pretty much known only in the English language where spelling is divorced from sound. Cough, rough, and tough are good candidates for cof, ruf, and tuf. And get rid of virtually every silent letter. Gnaw is naw, kneel is neel.
The article highlights useful tools for teachers, but what about parents and influential others? If I had to describe the learning sequence that gave me language fluency and flexibility, it would be: Speaking, reading, writing, the first two of which happened in my home, with relatives, and conversations with others. Usually, it doesn't take long for kids to build up a bank of memories that can be told as stories. We are all about stories. However, when parents delegate learning opportunities to the various electronic fireplaces around the home, not to mention the smart phones, television and all its extended technology relatives, etc. available to today's youth, often a different kind of relationship with language emerges. Sometimes, it extends to shape an attitude toward learning in general. When I was growing up, the value of learning and intellectual achievement was taken for granted. The more you knew, the better you would do in life. These days--and this is often most visible in election results--ignorance is worn as a badge of pride. Many of today's kids don't know what they don't know, and they don't understand why this is a problem for them.
3
There is no better way to explain the structure of sentences than by diagramming them. Every child's curriculum should include diagramming sentences.
6
Speaking as a child taught to "write as you speak" in the 80's, I can absolutely say this was a horrible method. By 6th grade, I had written nothing longer than a paragraph because I was so embarrassed by my writing. I learned basic English grammar from my 9th grade German teacher. I struggled throughout high school to write basic essays and reports. An attempt at forced journaling in 9th grade elicited a diary of breakfast foods. Teach kids the basics before asking them to get creative. And thank you Herr Price for teaching us both English and German grammar.
3
Hell, most of the managers I know, including senior managers, can't write to save their lives. Their ability to express nuanced thinking via the written word is essentially indistinguishable from nonexistent for the vast majority.
1
Balance: A noun, balance is here defined as the common component missing from most debates about instruction. Yes, kids need to learn how to write standard English correctly. Yes, kids need practice writing whole pieces, experimenting with different voices chosen for different purposes and varied audiences. Yes, kids need instruction in discrete skills, particularly addressing those which appear frequently in their own writing. Yes, teachers of writing at all grade levels need to be grounded in the recursive and complex nature of the writing process and engaging in their own writing will develop their instructional expertise. Yes, teachers need to use strategies which set kids up to write about what they care about, so they can learn to write correctly and effectively for all the times they don't care about the writing task in front of them, including the writing prompts on state tests. And, yes, strong models of professional development and instruction already exist. No, kids should not be limited to only writing sentences before they write whole pieces. No, marching through the grammar textbook does not equal a comprehensive writing curriculum. No, encouraging kids to like writing without ever developing the skills they need to do it effectively, which includes doing it correctly, is ridiculous. Malpractice: n. educators choosing parts or the whole, instead of a balance. Ignorance: n. public pressure demanding educators to make such a choice.
2
"Many educators are concerned less with sentence-level mechanics than with helping students draw inspiration from their own lives and from literature."
I stopped reading there. One cannot use that "inspiration" if one cannot express one's reactions or conclusions so that others can comprehend them. That is what language is for. Without that capability, one might as well be mute.
That an "educator" would espouse such nonsense and remain employed is a frightening-- and illuminating -- commentary on the state of our educational system.
I stopped reading there. One cannot use that "inspiration" if one cannot express one's reactions or conclusions so that others can comprehend them. That is what language is for. Without that capability, one might as well be mute.
That an "educator" would espouse such nonsense and remain employed is a frightening-- and illuminating -- commentary on the state of our educational system.
7
This "education" piece reminds me of early 1970s when touchy-feely took over university curricula and coincidentally our nation's SATs began to decline.
Reading this article about teaching writing was laborious and depressing. I say this as a person who writes for a living.
Success depends on the personality of the child. Parents and teachers should be flexible. The parent and teacher who says they treat all of their children/students exactly the same will not be successful. Some kids will enjoy perfecting assignments to please their teachers while others will find it tedious and pointless.
As someone who grew up mostly with stand-up lecture teaching, I ended up mostly teaching myself. A friend's mother had a magazine with pen pal listings in the back and that opened up an enthralling world of writing. One pen pal led to five and then 20, some in foreign countries. The other part of writing is constant reading which is often the best educator of grammar, spelling and sentence writing.
Newspapers are at least as important as magazines and books. If teachers got their students interested in newspapers, would we have the current election result residing in the White House? My mother brought home the paper every day after her work commute. Guess who became a journalist?
Lastly, active projects beyond "freewriting" (is that a word?) can make writing part of everyday life: class newsletter, letter to the editor, word games, spelling bees, handwriting in cursive, snail-mail pen pals, opinion writing, science abstracts, reporting, work-style memos, project outlines, as well as poetry, haiku and prose.
Success depends on the personality of the child. Parents and teachers should be flexible. The parent and teacher who says they treat all of their children/students exactly the same will not be successful. Some kids will enjoy perfecting assignments to please their teachers while others will find it tedious and pointless.
As someone who grew up mostly with stand-up lecture teaching, I ended up mostly teaching myself. A friend's mother had a magazine with pen pal listings in the back and that opened up an enthralling world of writing. One pen pal led to five and then 20, some in foreign countries. The other part of writing is constant reading which is often the best educator of grammar, spelling and sentence writing.
Newspapers are at least as important as magazines and books. If teachers got their students interested in newspapers, would we have the current election result residing in the White House? My mother brought home the paper every day after her work commute. Guess who became a journalist?
Lastly, active projects beyond "freewriting" (is that a word?) can make writing part of everyday life: class newsletter, letter to the editor, word games, spelling bees, handwriting in cursive, snail-mail pen pals, opinion writing, science abstracts, reporting, work-style memos, project outlines, as well as poetry, haiku and prose.
2
Now, THAT was interesting.
What would-be. musician could play music, hearing and feeling the rhythm, without having heard music daily? What would-be writer could write, hearing and feeling the language, without having read every day?
Reading is the key. But students have trouble reading because their vocabulary is poor. If they can't read, they are not going to be good writers.
The other key is that the student has to have something important to communicate. Just as, in a strange country, when you are forced to speak the language, in order to communicate, you will learn it.
I'm not sure about the effects of text-speak on student writing. Language evolves. Shakespeare was not always consistent with grammar or spelling.
The other key is that the student has to have something important to communicate. Just as, in a strange country, when you are forced to speak the language, in order to communicate, you will learn it.
I'm not sure about the effects of text-speak on student writing. Language evolves. Shakespeare was not always consistent with grammar or spelling.
2
What frightens me is when writers "dumb down" their writing to make it more attractive to readers.
2
Teachers are told not to teach spelling, grammar or cursive. That is considered a waste of time. Don't blame the teachers, blame the gov't.
1
PLEASE return to teaching children how to spell, how write properly and with proper grammar, and how to listen, respond and actually interact in a conversation that doesn't involve a smartphone. PLEASE.
4
To say learning proper English would stifle creativity is ludicrous. Learning to write and learning proper grammer is as necessary as breathing air.
6
I was taught, by a college writing lecturer, to just write a short paragraph (or two) every so often, but frequent enough that I would improve. It's difficult to find a subject to write about, but later I learned to write something that fascinates you. A friend from the same college, once told me, while he was aiding my law school application process, to just write something from the bottom of your heart, as a first draft. There was no need to frame the perfect sentence, because it was meant to get your ideas out on paper, from that gold mine of knowledge deep in the depth's of your consciousness. After getting the knowledge out on paper, you can go back and reread what you disgorged, while writing a second draft to organize your thoughts, while in writing.
What is writing, but simply forming words from the bottom of your heart. Your heart speaks, as you would to another, and you simply contain them with known meanings in the ether. Later, speaking becomes no different than writing, if you would only treat them as one of the same activity.
Many more are focused on what needs to happen, what the next step is, rather than how you feel about something, and what it is. While it is just something ethereal, always treat writing as if you are speaking under oath, because a lie is hardly ever sustainable, but the truth is everlasting.
What is writing, but simply forming words from the bottom of your heart. Your heart speaks, as you would to another, and you simply contain them with known meanings in the ether. Later, speaking becomes no different than writing, if you would only treat them as one of the same activity.
Many more are focused on what needs to happen, what the next step is, rather than how you feel about something, and what it is. While it is just something ethereal, always treat writing as if you are speaking under oath, because a lie is hardly ever sustainable, but the truth is everlasting.
42
Try using your premise for a cover letter to a job application, a legal brief, a set of instructions for medical equipment.
Even novelists must submit to editors and proofreaders.
Need I go on?
Even novelists must submit to editors and proofreaders.
Need I go on?
1
What is writing? For most of us it involves expressing ideas in a manner logical enough to be easily understood by readers. For all but the most gifted writers, their hearts do not speak until their minds have organized their thoughts into comprehensible sentences and paragraphs following widely accepted rules of grammar. As an employer, I do not expect employees to win Pulitzer prizes for literature; I do expect them to be able to write 1000 word essays about mundane topics with proper word choice and without grammatical mistakes.
1
as in .......
Teaching Standard English????
Teaching Standard English????
Doing a lot of reading is important but, for the love of Mike, also make sure the little beggars can diagram a sentence!
2
Which teacher allowed all these people to sprinkle in an apostrophe every time a word ends in "s", even though the word is not possessive. Honestly, it drive's me crazy to encounter all of those errantly-placed apostrophe's - even in the Washington Post and the NYT. What could be so hard about teaching student's that not every "s" call's for an apostrophe. I am still trying to get over encountering careless use of "their" and "there", "too" and "to", "do" and "due", and a few more that most of us mastered in second grade. Something is drastically wrong if teacher's let these error's slide by. See? It's catching, and no one seem's to care these days.
3
Alice from Chicago: I'm from Chicago, too, and yes, those crazy apostrophes drive me up the wall. Where on earth did this error come from?
Also, loose for lose. I see this everywhere. And suppose for supposed.
Also, loose for lose. I see this everywhere. And suppose for supposed.
1
*Your so right about that -- and add to it the "should of, could of, would of" instead of HAVE.
and how many times will you hear this, "My friend invited Steve and I to the party" because, of course, using "I" is ALWAYS correct.
*sic
and how many times will you hear this, "My friend invited Steve and I to the party" because, of course, using "I" is ALWAYS correct.
*sic
1
and "use to" for used to
Old school grammar drilling is the bane of too many aspiring writers. Far more important is for would-be writers to read read read read, and they will pick up the ins and outs of grammar intuitively, mark my words -- a far more redemptive alternative to the 'grammar Nazis' that infest way too many schools (and they are rarely if ever successful writers themselves, but instead suck the soul out of the writing process)
2
Screw the kids "personal voice". It's all nonsense anyway until they are "real adults" and talk as such.
Every generation has its challenge in "fitting in". It would be far, far better if they were tasked with first obtaining Academic Achievement in order to be a correct citizen (and, yes, get a good job in the Information Age).
Sufficiently well tasked, in school and at home, and they'd have less time to think of anything else. We don't have to treat them like some Chinese cultures in the Far East with "STUDY! STUDY! STUDY!"
But they must learn that if they do not study sufficiently well, they will have no future worth mentioning, not even a middle-class existence ...
Every generation has its challenge in "fitting in". It would be far, far better if they were tasked with first obtaining Academic Achievement in order to be a correct citizen (and, yes, get a good job in the Information Age).
Sufficiently well tasked, in school and at home, and they'd have less time to think of anything else. We don't have to treat them like some Chinese cultures in the Far East with "STUDY! STUDY! STUDY!"
But they must learn that if they do not study sufficiently well, they will have no future worth mentioning, not even a middle-class existence ...
1
I began to learn how to write by having to compose a thank you note for every gift I received or family dinner I attended. Too many schools across this country have their writing curriculum aligned to the national/state tests the students have to take. I had to teach to the tests, make the sentences creative and rich, we told our students, and we did not have time for grammar. We expected our students to fly first and then go back and learn how to walk. In the town I live in, in one of the biggest school districts, the kids in Early Childhood Education are expected to be able to write a sentence before they start kindergarten. What a shame, how wrong: they do not know how to hold a pencil, how to form a letter, it is utter folly but teachers are forced to follow this madness. It is all about getting the students ready early early for those damn tests.
1
Many good ideas here, especially (in my view) the need to get serious again about technique. As a college teacher I certainly stress inspiration and "voice," but I've found that way too many of my students have been lured by previous teachers into believing that throwing out any mangled thought will be credited as "self-expression" by teachers who don't want to "discourage" them by demanding that they write clearly. What's overlooked here is that students are not dumb: they are game-savvy pragmatists. A few may discover writing as a joy and fascination, but the great majority won't do hard work of learning the art unless they have to. Here the policy of social promotion, coupled with a coddling stress on voice over form, lets them pass the course, or move to the next grade, for abysmal work. If they can do awful work and still pass, why shouldn't they (they think)? Then they get to my university classroom and can't understand why they are getting failing grades for substandard work (so they resent me for it). Or they get into the job market and don't understand why they aren't getting jobs (and resent the world for it). Betrayed and confused, they then get discouraged and opt for some low-paying position where decent writing isn't needed. It's not fair to them. Sure, give them all the support and encouragement they need, but also give them serious consequences for ignoring the nitty-gritty and I'd bet, for a lot of these students, much better writing would magically appear.
2
There are no short cuts. We can't leave out any of it. A clue is in the assertion that most teachers were great readers. Memorizing and reciting poems is a lost art, but this is a good way to internalize the rhythms of language and strong sentences. So does reading--and hearing works read--aloud. Young students should be immersed in language and reading so that they become fluent in it. Sometimes written language can seem almost like a second language, but that's okay, and we can teach it without teaching students that their own dialects are "wrong" or that they lack beauty. But to be educated is to learn how a thing is made, to go deeper. Some of this is a misunderstanding of Romanticism. While the individual imagination was valued, so was language. After all, how are we to create something from nothing? I tell my students all of it--their lives, their other classes--will help them be better writers, but at a certain point, it doesn't matter what we have to say if we have created so much noise for the reader she will not read it.
Every English-speaking child of elementary school age brings to the classroom a full and comprehensive knowledge of the grammar of her native language. A two-year old knows what a verb is. Nouns and verbs are even stored in different parts of the brain. The challenge is tapping into that intuitive native speaker competence and bringing it to the written form of the language. This is particularly acute when the spoken form is a non-prestigious or non-standard form of English. The sentences given here as supposedly terrible examples need to be read aloud to the student, and really require very minor corrections. The communicative purpose of language should be paramount in instruction because focus on surface level mechanics does not produce results. Covering a paper with red marks does not change writer behavior. Reading copious amounts of well-written and engaging writing usually does. Get the English majors out of the classroom and bring in some linguists.
Here's a major point this article doesn't address: the workload of those who teach writing.
I taught writing at the university level for 30+ years. My spouse also taught for that long, though her experience was at the elementary, high school, and university levels. When she taught in high school, 15 or so years ago, the course load was 4-4 (i.e., eight courses per year); it's since gone up. The number of students in her beginning composition classes was 35; that number has increased. She taught three writing courses per semester, and parents wanted to know why so many high school writing teachers only assigned paragraphs.
The answer was "Do the math!" Back then when there were fewer courses to teach and fewer students in each course, if a teacher assigned just a paragraph, she had 105 of them to scribble and comment on. Call it 10 minutes per paragraph. Call it, therefore, 17.5 hours of additional work every time she assigned, not an essay but a paragraph! (Her math-teacher colleague down the hall had his exams machine scored.)
Teaching writing takes far more time than teaching just about anything else, and writing teachers are not compensated for that extra time, whether through reduced course loads, additional pay, or some combination.
I taught writing at the university level for 30+ years. My spouse also taught for that long, though her experience was at the elementary, high school, and university levels. When she taught in high school, 15 or so years ago, the course load was 4-4 (i.e., eight courses per year); it's since gone up. The number of students in her beginning composition classes was 35; that number has increased. She taught three writing courses per semester, and parents wanted to know why so many high school writing teachers only assigned paragraphs.
The answer was "Do the math!" Back then when there were fewer courses to teach and fewer students in each course, if a teacher assigned just a paragraph, she had 105 of them to scribble and comment on. Call it 10 minutes per paragraph. Call it, therefore, 17.5 hours of additional work every time she assigned, not an essay but a paragraph! (Her math-teacher colleague down the hall had his exams machine scored.)
Teaching writing takes far more time than teaching just about anything else, and writing teachers are not compensated for that extra time, whether through reduced course loads, additional pay, or some combination.
4
Before I retired I wasn't too keen on other people working to improve their writing skills, particularly grammar; although I had done so intensely for twenty years or so during my youth, in order to satisfy my great interest in the subject. In due course I found that it gave me a definite competitive edge in many respects, not least in opening several doors to welcome career progression. If all others spoke and wrote as well as I wherein lay advantage?
I always preferred competing either on a level playing field, or with those whose obvious talents propelled me toward a higher level of personal achievement. I never cared for being the smartest or ablest person in the room. It may be an advantage in career advancement, but it leads to complacency. I'd rather be challenged.
Different strokes, I guess.
Different strokes, I guess.
Anyone who listens to, or reads, print, radio, or television advertising can begin to understand part of the problem. Syntax errors aplenty bombard us on a daily basis. And, these are the folks who are supposed to know better. Add to that the modern vernacular of shortcuts such as LOL, ICYMI, BTW, etc., and the situation is compounded. It's no wonder kids can't write.
I had the benefit of a Jesuit high school education which emphasized English composition and creative writing. Little did we know at the time how important those exercises would become down the road in business.
To this day, when I have the occasion to read something written by an alum of that school, I can still see that those lessons were never forgotten. And, my classmates and I now are seventy-two.
I had the benefit of a Jesuit high school education which emphasized English composition and creative writing. Little did we know at the time how important those exercises would become down the road in business.
To this day, when I have the occasion to read something written by an alum of that school, I can still see that those lessons were never forgotten. And, my classmates and I now are seventy-two.
2
Calculus is nearly impossible without a solid grasp on algebra, running a marathon is challenging without completion of a training regimen, and storytelling is ineffective without a firm grasp on grammar.
Though a member of the millennial generation, I am eternally grateful for the strong grammatical lessons I received throughout my primary education. My written skills were often praised by undergraduate professors; despite teaching at a top 5 liberal arts college, they rarely come across students who can effectively convey their thoughts, particularly in quantitative and scientific disciplines.
Learning to recognize such patterns can also benefit a student in other subjects (math and music come to mind). Later on in life, a well-written cover letter or well-edited essay can alter an applicant’s chance at an interview. Speaking articulately and correctly can make or break the outcome of an interview.
Grammar is essential at all stages in life, and it should not be ignored. Educational systems should seriously reconsidering teachers who do not recognize its importance or are unable to write correctly themselves.
Though a member of the millennial generation, I am eternally grateful for the strong grammatical lessons I received throughout my primary education. My written skills were often praised by undergraduate professors; despite teaching at a top 5 liberal arts college, they rarely come across students who can effectively convey their thoughts, particularly in quantitative and scientific disciplines.
Learning to recognize such patterns can also benefit a student in other subjects (math and music come to mind). Later on in life, a well-written cover letter or well-edited essay can alter an applicant’s chance at an interview. Speaking articulately and correctly can make or break the outcome of an interview.
Grammar is essential at all stages in life, and it should not be ignored. Educational systems should seriously reconsidering teachers who do not recognize its importance or are unable to write correctly themselves.
4
Students coming from home where - a dialect - is spoken are going to have problems with English grammar. This became very clear to me when I volunteered as a tutor for younger students learning to read in a rural elementary school in Jamaica. Many of the students speak "patois" at home. They hear more standard English by watching American TV. And most of the teachers I interacted with and saw working in the classrooms there speak the "Queen's English."
People coming from a home where more "standard" English is spoken may have a leg up on grammar. For those who don't, proper English grammar probably feels like learning a foreign language, as well as inhibiting them from expressing themselves. For this reason free writing, - journals, letters, etc. is a good idea.
The comments here are from people who read the NYTimes. It seems some of the assumptions are "culture centric" (and kind of smug), but on cable news every day, I hear people who have trouble with plurals - subject verb agreement. This is from the news moderators to the commentators and guests that include; lawyers, politicians, academics and other (well educated) experts of every kind. Maybe in this situation it is the nature thinking on your feet and speaking as opposed to writing.
I don't have any suggestions other than hope people can appreciate where some of these student are coming from, culturally/language wise, and how high the bar is for learning to express themselves and to write standard, "proper" English.
People coming from a home where more "standard" English is spoken may have a leg up on grammar. For those who don't, proper English grammar probably feels like learning a foreign language, as well as inhibiting them from expressing themselves. For this reason free writing, - journals, letters, etc. is a good idea.
The comments here are from people who read the NYTimes. It seems some of the assumptions are "culture centric" (and kind of smug), but on cable news every day, I hear people who have trouble with plurals - subject verb agreement. This is from the news moderators to the commentators and guests that include; lawyers, politicians, academics and other (well educated) experts of every kind. Maybe in this situation it is the nature thinking on your feet and speaking as opposed to writing.
I don't have any suggestions other than hope people can appreciate where some of these student are coming from, culturally/language wise, and how high the bar is for learning to express themselves and to write standard, "proper" English.
dialect has nothing to do with it.......your comment is obtuse
Explain then why so many US citizens cant communicate effectively.
Many of you Americans are basically illiterate
College grads who can't construct a sentence, inarticulate,
for whom written communication is anathema.
But confidence abounds here.
Weakness in basic reading and math are bypassed n excused
What u consider AP, is standard process for other countries
TV as info and Everything Else being dumbed down to sound bytes, slogans & pictorial representation.......down to fast food registers
That and the text/im/emoji generation......:evolved" into the "problems" you now face
welcome to ur consumer based existence
Explain then why so many US citizens cant communicate effectively.
Many of you Americans are basically illiterate
College grads who can't construct a sentence, inarticulate,
for whom written communication is anathema.
But confidence abounds here.
Weakness in basic reading and math are bypassed n excused
What u consider AP, is standard process for other countries
TV as info and Everything Else being dumbed down to sound bytes, slogans & pictorial representation.......down to fast food registers
That and the text/im/emoji generation......:evolved" into the "problems" you now face
welcome to ur consumer based existence
Rum-head,
What do you know first hand about children who speak non- standard English in the home and how they might acquire proper grammar? Have you ever seen them in a classroom? How do you think the feeling of "struggling" affects their attitude and performance in school, or down the road their likelihood of graduating from high school?
We made some similar points about the lack of literacy skills even in the "well educated" ranks, but your attitude (smug re: "nothing to do with it") is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
I noticed you have some some sentence fragments in your post and are lacking some punctuation.
The majority of comments in this section have these elements.
What do you know first hand about children who speak non- standard English in the home and how they might acquire proper grammar? Have you ever seen them in a classroom? How do you think the feeling of "struggling" affects their attitude and performance in school, or down the road their likelihood of graduating from high school?
We made some similar points about the lack of literacy skills even in the "well educated" ranks, but your attitude (smug re: "nothing to do with it") is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
I noticed you have some some sentence fragments in your post and are lacking some punctuation.
The majority of comments in this section have these elements.
Gordon Glover's Recipe for Writing and Speaking
1. Write down the relevant questions
2. Organize the questions
3. Answer the questions
(As stated by a former student at Gordon's memorial gathering.)
Good writing is rewriting.
Get it right the first time—no matter how many times it takes
1. Write down the relevant questions
2. Organize the questions
3. Answer the questions
(As stated by a former student at Gordon's memorial gathering.)
Good writing is rewriting.
Get it right the first time—no matter how many times it takes
4
The observation that a large number of teachers aren't comfortable with writing to me means the problem is already entrenched. If we continue to accept the dumbing down and good enough to get by of our academics, we cannot compete with countries and cultures that are moving forward. Who is going to write our great literary works, for pete's sake!?
7
I owe much of my skill today in writing and thought formulation to my 8th grade English teacher. Unlike previous English and Reading courses up to that point, his did almost nothing with reading comprehension, writing, or discussion of the language or literature.
Instead, it was old school drilling on grammar, adjectives, verb tenses, pronouns, sentence structure, the works. It was a miserably difficult course, but I took it in, and I grew leaps and bounds in my understanding of the language, such that by the time I got to an 11th grade creative writing course, I knew the rules well enough to know how to use them - and how to selectively break them, if I so chose.
Shortly before graduating high school, I went back to that 8th grade English instructor to thank him for the difficult course. "I don't teach that anymore," he said, to my shock. "Why?" I asked him. "Well, many students were struggling, and their grades weren't as good in my class, and parents started complaining. So, now I do more of a standard 'read this book and we'll write about it and talk about it' type of course."
I have wondered ever since - and especially now reading this article - how often parents struck down the teaching of the language because it was too hard for the students and caused their grades to suffer.
Instead, it was old school drilling on grammar, adjectives, verb tenses, pronouns, sentence structure, the works. It was a miserably difficult course, but I took it in, and I grew leaps and bounds in my understanding of the language, such that by the time I got to an 11th grade creative writing course, I knew the rules well enough to know how to use them - and how to selectively break them, if I so chose.
Shortly before graduating high school, I went back to that 8th grade English instructor to thank him for the difficult course. "I don't teach that anymore," he said, to my shock. "Why?" I asked him. "Well, many students were struggling, and their grades weren't as good in my class, and parents started complaining. So, now I do more of a standard 'read this book and we'll write about it and talk about it' type of course."
I have wondered ever since - and especially now reading this article - how often parents struck down the teaching of the language because it was too hard for the students and caused their grades to suffer.
14
No mention of social media?
EVERY child I know in our town uses Twitter with its hashtags and 140 characters. They text with ICYMI, OTOH, LOL, ROTFL and a thousand other shorthand acronyms.BTW, many children believe that “reading” Instagrams is truly reading.
TV shows used to be on 3 channels. Now with Roku, Apple TV, Netflix, and Hulu, one can access thousands of channels. How can reading Steinbeck or Chekov possibly compete with Game of Thrones? PTSD keeps me from watching that HBO show. Reading and writing requires action; watching TV or surfing the ’net is passive as it requires no real outlay of energy.
Tech has replaced newspapers, and magazines. I could no more read an e-book than...well I can’t. Our home while growing up in the 50s and 60s had weekly copies of National Geographic, Newsweek, Time, Sports Illustrated, National Review, Smithsonian and we got three newspapers delivered each day. We had an extensive library. I look back at old photo albums and see us five kids either reading under trees, on the porch, or working on the farm.
Cursive writing isn’t being taught! As an MD I understand the neurological differences between typing on this laptop and writing cursive letters and short stories.Putting a pen to paper is exhilarating.How will our children be able to read ANYTHING in the National Archives, such as the Declaration of Independence or a hand written letter by Lincoln?
Teaching writing is a non starter unless we ban all tech gadgets!
EVERY child I know in our town uses Twitter with its hashtags and 140 characters. They text with ICYMI, OTOH, LOL, ROTFL and a thousand other shorthand acronyms.BTW, many children believe that “reading” Instagrams is truly reading.
TV shows used to be on 3 channels. Now with Roku, Apple TV, Netflix, and Hulu, one can access thousands of channels. How can reading Steinbeck or Chekov possibly compete with Game of Thrones? PTSD keeps me from watching that HBO show. Reading and writing requires action; watching TV or surfing the ’net is passive as it requires no real outlay of energy.
Tech has replaced newspapers, and magazines. I could no more read an e-book than...well I can’t. Our home while growing up in the 50s and 60s had weekly copies of National Geographic, Newsweek, Time, Sports Illustrated, National Review, Smithsonian and we got three newspapers delivered each day. We had an extensive library. I look back at old photo albums and see us five kids either reading under trees, on the porch, or working on the farm.
Cursive writing isn’t being taught! As an MD I understand the neurological differences between typing on this laptop and writing cursive letters and short stories.Putting a pen to paper is exhilarating.How will our children be able to read ANYTHING in the National Archives, such as the Declaration of Independence or a hand written letter by Lincoln?
Teaching writing is a non starter unless we ban all tech gadgets!
2
Well, my spouse and I are 72 and we are now deep into our laptops or phones -- reading ...
But it's too bad students are no longer learning cursive writing. I just realized about a year ago that my college freshmen cannot read the comments I make on their papers.
But it's too bad students are no longer learning cursive writing. I just realized about a year ago that my college freshmen cannot read the comments I make on their papers.
1
As a former English teacher in college, I experienced a wide range of student abilities when it came to writing. Most students can express themselves one way or another, whether in writing or verbally. The ability issues, however, are effectiveness and communication and reading. If I read a paper, and it clearly communicates what a student is attempting to say, then it is effective. By that I mean, terrible grammar, poor organization, limited vocabulary don't necessarily stand in the way to a true soul trying to be heard by all. But when a paper shines with organized clarity and no hindrances due to the ills mentioned above, its effectiveness glows. These are the foundation blocks for learning that follows, and to be weak in either is to predict poor performance in many subjects. My prescription to new parents is quite simple: teach youngsters not only early arithmetic but the alphabet and how letters and groups of letters sound. Read fun books together. Have them read you a story all by themselves. Grade schools spend a lot of time instilling early knowledge of writing skills, especially grammar. This focus helps instill the discipline and ability to learn other basic things that is necessary for them to exist in our very complicated society. Open the door to reading at an early age, say 4-6. Most children can do this fairly easily. By doing so, you open a special door for them to experience and learn words, ideas, imagination, life. And you will feel like a genius.
1
A few years ago, I went back to school, community college. I was a professional adult taking classes with kids who had just graduated from high school. I had the unfortunate experience of being assigned to a group project with two boys. We had to draft essays. plans for a presentation, and the like. These boys had no idea how to write a sentence, let alone a paragraph that flowed from one sentence to the next with thoughts forming a coherent idea or position. I became the copy editor until the teacher found out I was doing all the writing. She asked me stop helping them. I did and the results were appalling.
These were 18 year olds writing as if they were still in elementary school, and I don't mean handwriting. I mean sentence structure. Since that foray into the current state of education, I am convinced that the failure to focus on basic writing has left these kids without the necessary tools to succeed. Or perhaps in the future no one will care about sentence structure. I shudder to think that perhaps we will all be texting.
These were 18 year olds writing as if they were still in elementary school, and I don't mean handwriting. I mean sentence structure. Since that foray into the current state of education, I am convinced that the failure to focus on basic writing has left these kids without the necessary tools to succeed. Or perhaps in the future no one will care about sentence structure. I shudder to think that perhaps we will all be texting.
5
Basic sentence construction is absolutely fundamental, but the point at which I truly started appreciating it was when I began learning different languages. Learning Latin-based languages, and then jumping to Russian declensions and Korean agglutination, really opened my eyes to how strongly grammar and syntax play a role in literary devices. There are sentences and poetry you can write in Korean, whose loveliness and verve simply do not translate in English no matter how hard you try-- and vice versa.
In my opinion, and the ability to make comparisons across different languages is the point at which the penny really begins to drop. You stop taking the structure of your native language for granted when you see that other languages have their own, quite different way of doing things.
In my opinion, and the ability to make comparisons across different languages is the point at which the penny really begins to drop. You stop taking the structure of your native language for granted when you see that other languages have their own, quite different way of doing things.
12
I agree. I recently took an elementary German course and found that it was also a good review of English grammar. My high school days were 50 years ago, but it is all starting to come back to me.
I am an 8th grade language arts teacher in a Johns Creek, Georgia, middle school. We are number one in Fulton County, which encompasses north Atlanta. I love teaching writing! We owe our success to Harry Noden's IMAGE GRAMMAR and GDP, daily GRAMMAR practice. Students learn how to imitate the grammatical structures of great writers! Works like a charm! They need GRAMMAR so they know what a participle and apposotive are, two of the brushstrokes of Image Grammar. We also require zooming in and using vivid verbs and specific nouns. Image GRAMMAR is required for every writing assignment. Over 99 percent of students passed Georgia Milestones as well as exceeded. We cover parallelism, pronoun antecedent agreement, etc-- all topics on SAT too. The students need to know grammar!! When we started using Noden' s workbooks and DGP, our writing scores soared. Teachers love to share!!
5
Diagramming sentences was boring. For kids with sloppy printing or penmanship, diagramming was probably stressful.
Despite the difficulties, we learned how to build a sentence, how to write clauses and prepositional phrases. We learned when to use "who" and "whom." I don't know if today's writers are poorly educated or if their editors are just dim, but "whom" is misused all the time.
When I read a printed book, I mark the grammatical and other proofreading errors. Some very well written books have grammatical errors I knew not to make by third grade. The stories are well crafted but the mistakes are distracting.
Can't we teach both "creative" writing and basic grammar? You don't want me to start on home/hone, affect/effect, or its/it's.
Despite the difficulties, we learned how to build a sentence, how to write clauses and prepositional phrases. We learned when to use "who" and "whom." I don't know if today's writers are poorly educated or if their editors are just dim, but "whom" is misused all the time.
When I read a printed book, I mark the grammatical and other proofreading errors. Some very well written books have grammatical errors I knew not to make by third grade. The stories are well crafted but the mistakes are distracting.
Can't we teach both "creative" writing and basic grammar? You don't want me to start on home/hone, affect/effect, or its/it's.
6
A mistake educators make is deeming "writing" to be solely a creative discipline. In reality, adults will use writing as a communication tool far more often than as a creative outlet. Grammar, sentence and paragraph construction, and organization matter immensely.
I work in a profession where we frequently write reports, web text, and other documents that communicate ideas from complex analyses that we conduct. It's not a creative exercise at all. But, it's amazing that brilliant scientists, engineers, and economists can be absolutely abysmal writers. Many of my colleagues write in a stream of consciousness, unaware of the importance of topic sentences in paragraphs or organizing thoughts in a logical manner, or using transitions to link ideas together coherently.
I tell my employees that they can run the most brilliant analysis in history, but it's worthless if we can't communicate what we did, what the results were, and why it matters.
I wish writing was taught as a tool to complement other disciplines, rather than a discipline that exists in it's own silo. Good writing is a powerful communication tool. Good communication doesn't need a lot of "gorgeous sentences," but it does need to organize thoughts clearly and articulate them well.
I work in a profession where we frequently write reports, web text, and other documents that communicate ideas from complex analyses that we conduct. It's not a creative exercise at all. But, it's amazing that brilliant scientists, engineers, and economists can be absolutely abysmal writers. Many of my colleagues write in a stream of consciousness, unaware of the importance of topic sentences in paragraphs or organizing thoughts in a logical manner, or using transitions to link ideas together coherently.
I tell my employees that they can run the most brilliant analysis in history, but it's worthless if we can't communicate what we did, what the results were, and why it matters.
I wish writing was taught as a tool to complement other disciplines, rather than a discipline that exists in it's own silo. Good writing is a powerful communication tool. Good communication doesn't need a lot of "gorgeous sentences," but it does need to organize thoughts clearly and articulate them well.
10
Being a good writer takes a certain fortitude. The problem is that you need to learn to judge your own output; this is very hard as we all have an emotional investment in what we produce. Yet, writing is very difficult, the reality is most of what we produce is crap. We need to learn to judge our own writing to determine what is effective, what needs improvement and how to formulate strategies for improvement. In particular, teachers of writing need to develop their students abilities to engage in effective self-criticism, and how to use criticism from other readers, a key part of which is insisting on the necessity for multiple revisions. These revisions need to be carefully guided by the instructor so that the students are not overwhelmed, and made aware of their strengths and weaknesses, but should have a sharp focus on improving a particular skill. Part of the revision process could be learning to avoid a particular grammatical mistake, or avoid incomplete sentences, or improve paragraph organization. . . the list is endless. Once students begin to identify problems on their own and are motivated to correct them the instructor's job is complete.
2
Grammar is logic: this word means this, that word modifies that word, etc. Without grammar, without the logic behind language, you have an amorphous swirl of language where anything can mean anything, rather as if the rules of mathematics no longer held: 2 + 2 = anything you like. Grammar does not stifle creativity or expressing one's self: it clarifies and makes understandable, which is after all, the the reason we try to communicate. Rules of composition don't seem to have stifled Mozart or Shakespeare, Michelangelo had to learn how to draw properly, and the rules of tennis don't seem to have ruined the game.
9
So that is why Donald Trump has so many followers, they can't read or compose!
5
Grammar, and writing skills have largely gone the way of the dodo in this our country. I highly suggest that kids learn to write Script. Why? Because it's really depressing to get a handwritten note from your local bank president, that is written in block letters like a five year old!!
3
After teaching college students for a long time, here and in other countries, I would like to pass along a few what I have learned from other faculty and editors.
1. It is true that grammar is the infrastructure of language but reading provides the bricks and mortar. Freewriting and journaling are fine but if one does not expose him/herself to great writing then their linguistic bank accounts are lacking. Reading great literature is one way to produce great writers.
2. Teachers can provide the basics(under the threat of grades) but in the end the only way to learn to write is to write.
3. Learning a second language in a meaningful way to provide a constant challenge to a first language. Many foreign languages will confirm that their students learn more about their birth language when they immerse in a second language
4. Promote a love of the written word as an antidote to tweets, texts and other abominations to the language. If I catch students texting too much in class, I take the phone and read them aloud.
5. Parents, families--please read, and then read some more. Ask the students in your families what they are reading and engage them in talking about their reading. I learned to love to read from my immigrant grandfather (who maybe completed the 4th grade); we talked about what was in the newspaper on every possible occasion.
Reading and writing may seem simple but they transform lives!! We have come to take them for granted.
1. It is true that grammar is the infrastructure of language but reading provides the bricks and mortar. Freewriting and journaling are fine but if one does not expose him/herself to great writing then their linguistic bank accounts are lacking. Reading great literature is one way to produce great writers.
2. Teachers can provide the basics(under the threat of grades) but in the end the only way to learn to write is to write.
3. Learning a second language in a meaningful way to provide a constant challenge to a first language. Many foreign languages will confirm that their students learn more about their birth language when they immerse in a second language
4. Promote a love of the written word as an antidote to tweets, texts and other abominations to the language. If I catch students texting too much in class, I take the phone and read them aloud.
5. Parents, families--please read, and then read some more. Ask the students in your families what they are reading and engage them in talking about their reading. I learned to love to read from my immigrant grandfather (who maybe completed the 4th grade); we talked about what was in the newspaper on every possible occasion.
Reading and writing may seem simple but they transform lives!! We have come to take them for granted.
4
I agree completely. Reading is key. I have been teaching freshmen writing for more than a dozen years (second career).
Can't we just call it for what it really is, Grammar is racist and needs to e removed from all educational practices.
Really? What is racist about a clear structure of a language - any language? Without a foundation and supports one cannot construct an edifice; without grammar one cannot construct understandable writing or speech.
I constantly hear news casters utter versions of this construction: "That's what happened to Sharon and I."
When professional journalists, most all with college educations, don't know basic grammar, we have a problem.
It is ridiculous to think children can appreciate even simple literature, when they can't construct a basic, correct sentence.
Math bored me silly. So what? It's a basic skill, like reading and writing.......required in this life to have any sort of job or future.
Be bored. Do the work. What is all this coddling?
When professional journalists, most all with college educations, don't know basic grammar, we have a problem.
It is ridiculous to think children can appreciate even simple literature, when they can't construct a basic, correct sentence.
Math bored me silly. So what? It's a basic skill, like reading and writing.......required in this life to have any sort of job or future.
Be bored. Do the work. What is all this coddling?
5
Chances are the parents can't write very well either!
2
I learned to write by writing, and then having a handful of "hard" teachers return my brainchildren covered in red marks. One of those teachers even filled the outside columns of my essays with sarcastic comments highlighting the lack of precision in thought or expression. Did these hard teachers repress my muse? I don't think so. Rather, they empowered the muse to be more thoughtful and more precise. Reading selectively helped, too. As a high school student, for outside reading I favored H.L. Mencken, Mark Twain, and George Bernard Shaw and learned to disdain any kind of casual expression. Look, this is like learning how to swim -- flounder around all you want, but you'll zip across the pool if you master a couple of standard strokes through practice and ongoing coaching. Creativity? It comes when your craft is solid.
4
The way you learn to speak a language, any language, is by exposure, study --- and being CORRECTED. The reason so many people are ignorant of grammar is their teachers are ignorant of grammar and don't correct grammatical errors by their students. They don't even see or hear them. This is why anyone who is well educated is exposed to so much illiteracy. No one is correcting the illiterates. The effort is going into rationalizing the illiteracy. Participation trophies for all. Except when it comes time to get a good job.
4
Grammar doesn't exist to stifle creativity. It exists to give structure and meaning to language, to transform a string of words into coherent sentences. I'm not against poets and prose writers intentionally flouting grammatical rules, but such instances can only have power and significance when both writer and reader have a full grasp and appreciation of English grammar.
313
It doesn't exist to stifle creativity, but if you have dyslexic students and repeatedly criticise them for their grammar, spelling, punctuation, position of capital letters, poor writing, then it will stop them from being creative, as you will give them an even stronger fear of writing. From a Mum to dyslexic twins.
I see and hear so much grammatically incorrect language in the news media, and from teachers and even school superintendents. It's like the proverbial fingers on a chalkboard. Prepositions seem to be a particular problem. There's nothing wrong with writers free associating and writing whatever comes to mind in the first draft of an essay. They can then go back and correct the grammar and spelling. Sloppiness is never a positive.
3
Why are we afraid to suggest that learning is hard work, and that children cannot be spared that hard work if they expect to survive? Does anyone see the result of that unwillingness in the coarse and debased America in which we find ourselves? Idiocracy, indeed.
2
so stiffing personal expression is more important than learning to write? is this intended as satire? will this really prepare a student for life?
I will forever appreciate Mrs. Williams, my 1964-65 high school English teacher in Hope, Arkansas, who made sure we understood and completed all exercises in "Writing Good Sentences" by Dr. Claude Faulkner. Strunk & White made more sense to me after completing this workbook! A few copies are still available on Amazon with excellent reviews. As other comments have noted here, excellence in creative writing requires a good understanding of sentence structure. New programs, like Grammarly, will not compensate for well-learned skills and understanding of sentence structure. In my old age, I am becoming sloppy; but, I still remember to use a possessive preceding a gerund!
1
Studying a foreign language should help students by making them think carefully about what they—and others—want to say and how they say it, as they move between two languages (and cultures). Should.
1
This comment may earn me a lot of condemnation, but here goes . . .
I regularly peruse readers' comments and write some of my own as well. I'm amazed at the number of grammatical errors consistently made by some commenters to the Times, one of the best publications in the world.
(Before I start, let me note that there are a number of commenters who write very well.)
Let's start with possessives and contractions. Many commenters don't know the difference between "its" and "it's," "their" and "they're," "whose" and "who's." And then there's the difference between subject and object: many don't know the difference between I and me (e.g., "He's going with John and I"). And then there is the comma splice, i.e., running two (or more) independent clauses together, separated only by a comma.
(Yes, I know that people make typos; we all do. I’m talking about errors consistently made by writers.)
If many readers of an esteemed publication such as the Times don't know important points of grammar, I can only imagine the literacy level of the rest of the population.
I regularly peruse readers' comments and write some of my own as well. I'm amazed at the number of grammatical errors consistently made by some commenters to the Times, one of the best publications in the world.
(Before I start, let me note that there are a number of commenters who write very well.)
Let's start with possessives and contractions. Many commenters don't know the difference between "its" and "it's," "their" and "they're," "whose" and "who's." And then there's the difference between subject and object: many don't know the difference between I and me (e.g., "He's going with John and I"). And then there is the comma splice, i.e., running two (or more) independent clauses together, separated only by a comma.
(Yes, I know that people make typos; we all do. I’m talking about errors consistently made by writers.)
If many readers of an esteemed publication such as the Times don't know important points of grammar, I can only imagine the literacy level of the rest of the population.
4
The ninth-grader's sample shown in the article is pathetic -- more like what a second-grader might produce, both in content and execution. How did a child with such poor writing and thinking skills get promoted so far above his or her capabiities? I wish the article had addressed that aspect of teaching writing -- i.e., don't promote them if they can't do the work.
2
Poor writing skills are evident today in corporate executives who write memos that contain sentences with poor syntax, spelling errors, and limited vocabulary. Several colleagues of mine used to blue pencil each memo received from on high, and then pinned them to a cork board.
Over time grammar improved.
Over time grammar improved.
1
Not all readers are writers, but all writers are readers. That's the fix for this problem.
4
We can start by teaching students how to diagram sentences. Many of them will detest it but a few, like my wife, will start diagramming sentences for fun.
2
Every year a Latin 101 student tells me something to effect of, "This is great. Now I understand how English works!"
I was born in 1969. I attended private school. We were assigned The Great Gatsby, The Scarlet letter, Wuthering Heights, Hard Times, The Mill on the Floss, and Crime and Punishment. We read a lot. Most of my friends scored very well on the SAT at went to Ivy League schools. If I were to design a curriculum, it would be focused on reading "classic" texts from the 19th and early 20th centuries, along with Plato's dialogues.
Why are we, as a culture, so concerned with personal voice? have a personal voice in your 30's or 40's. Why do pre-teens need a personal voice? Education is too focused on things like tolerance, self-expression, diversity, and empathy and insufficiently focused on things like reading, writing, and math. The first group of things is great, but we'll end up having a kinder uneducated populace. Everything I read in the NYT regarding trends in education strengthens my resolve to send my children to private school. Not because I think the teachers are that much better, but because public school seems focused on everything EXCEPT giving children the intellectual tools to compete in a corporate universe.
Why are we, as a culture, so concerned with personal voice? have a personal voice in your 30's or 40's. Why do pre-teens need a personal voice? Education is too focused on things like tolerance, self-expression, diversity, and empathy and insufficiently focused on things like reading, writing, and math. The first group of things is great, but we'll end up having a kinder uneducated populace. Everything I read in the NYT regarding trends in education strengthens my resolve to send my children to private school. Not because I think the teachers are that much better, but because public school seems focused on everything EXCEPT giving children the intellectual tools to compete in a corporate universe.
6
Why Kids Cant Right. Why Kids Cant Write. Right (write) at the top of the article!
Well "right" was crossed out but "cant" was left in.
Well... "cant" should also be crossed out and be replaced with "can't". As far as I recall now (didnt do a search. Whose time for it? ), "cant" has two (too, to)different meanings ( a corner or a chant), none of them related to "can not" (can't).
Well "right" was crossed out but "cant" was left in.
Well... "cant" should also be crossed out and be replaced with "can't". As far as I recall now (didnt do a search. Whose time for it? ), "cant" has two (too, to)different meanings ( a corner or a chant), none of them related to "can not" (can't).
1
The core secret to good writing is reading. The more you read, and voice reading in your head, the more you'll acquire a voice of the sort the student cited in your article reports that she lacks.
Then comes the teaching. Good teaching of any kind is labor intensive. But this is especially true for writing. For teachers need to read student essays slowly and carefully, and then meet regularly to talk with them about their writing. This can only be done if writing teachers have small classes.
And let me add that the Peter Elbow theory of writing, i.e., that it begins in the Savage Heart, is fundamentally mistaken. Language isn't private; nor, really, is experience. Language helps shape and refine our experience by giving us the names for feelings, encounters, raw things. But language is essentially shared with others, and is moreover constitutively addressed toward others. When you read good writing, it isn't private venting--or if it is, it's no better than a Trumpian tweet storm.
Then comes the teaching. Good teaching of any kind is labor intensive. But this is especially true for writing. For teachers need to read student essays slowly and carefully, and then meet regularly to talk with them about their writing. This can only be done if writing teachers have small classes.
And let me add that the Peter Elbow theory of writing, i.e., that it begins in the Savage Heart, is fundamentally mistaken. Language isn't private; nor, really, is experience. Language helps shape and refine our experience by giving us the names for feelings, encounters, raw things. But language is essentially shared with others, and is moreover constitutively addressed toward others. When you read good writing, it isn't private venting--or if it is, it's no better than a Trumpian tweet storm.
4
How could kids possibly write when they have parents who cannot write,read and only watch Fox News?
2
Teaching writing without teaching basics like sentence structure, spelling, & tense would be like teaching algebra without teaching addition, subtraction, etc. Sure, theoretically the kids might get it, but I bet they couldn't solve an actual algebra problem to save their lives.
Then again, look at our frightful math skills. Looks like writing/English is going down the same path. Hey, but as long as the kids feel 'free', right?
Then again, look at our frightful math skills. Looks like writing/English is going down the same path. Hey, but as long as the kids feel 'free', right?
4
You have to learn the alphabet before you can write a word. You have to learn grammar before you can write sentences and paragraphs. If a person makes up gibberish words that no one understands it would not be a manifestation of self expression any more than writing without following the rules of grammar is. For "self expression" to occur by breaking the rules one must first know what the rules are.
224
Self expression is great -- in the correct venue. Art is a good example.
OTOH, there are areas where conformity is critical. Driving and communication are two clear examples of those.
It's too bad in our often overly "politically correct" society, where we fail to have firm rules of behavior where appropriate, that we let fear of being unpopular or politically correct get in the way of doing things like insisting on an acceptable standard of English writing skills, in order for someone to successfully graduate from high school.
By not doing that, it's a great disservice to the substandard graduates and to American society at large.
OTOH, there are areas where conformity is critical. Driving and communication are two clear examples of those.
It's too bad in our often overly "politically correct" society, where we fail to have firm rules of behavior where appropriate, that we let fear of being unpopular or politically correct get in the way of doing things like insisting on an acceptable standard of English writing skills, in order for someone to successfully graduate from high school.
By not doing that, it's a great disservice to the substandard graduates and to American society at large.
This is absolutely false. We learn language from what we hear, long before we write or are forced to diagram sentences (Heaven help us) or identify parts of speech. And identifying parts of speech doesn't mean that you can use them well. Start with reading the best children's books to children before they can even speak. Continue until (and even after) they learn to read themselves. Value reading-do it yourself, buy books for your children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, children whose parents can't afford to buy them.
I taught English at all levels from seventh grade to graduate school over a fifty year career, and I've been forced to teach grammar, have students diagram sentences, give lists of spelling words. It doesn't work and it turns students off. As some others have noted, writing and getting intelligent responses about your writing--this works.
Another observation: Many of those who bemoan the decline of writing aren't very good writers themselves.
I taught English at all levels from seventh grade to graduate school over a fifty year career, and I've been forced to teach grammar, have students diagram sentences, give lists of spelling words. It doesn't work and it turns students off. As some others have noted, writing and getting intelligent responses about your writing--this works.
Another observation: Many of those who bemoan the decline of writing aren't very good writers themselves.
2
It is not true, which is to say false, it is fake news, alternative fact, demonstrably wrong, not in compliance with knowable reality that you have to "learn grammar" before you can write sentences and paragraphs.
Let me be clear, however: you win; I lose. I concede. Yours is the preferred point of view, although it has the dubious advantage--from my sad point of view--of proving what I have said to be true. Look around you at all the sentences and paragraphs--the fully formed, intelligible, coherent ones--millions of them. They are everywhere. Do you seriously believe the writers of all those grammatical sentences could not have been written without some pre-existing conscious knowledge derived by "learning grammar."
>'Twas brillig and the slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe....>>
Is this "sentence" the product of broken rules? Is it a manifestation of those rules? Is it gibberish? Is it grammatical? What tools are required from the grammar kit to put the bits together by the assembly method? Do you know? Or did you just recite your grammatical catechism?
I am the ancient mariner. I can't be stopped. Forgive my rudely skeptical intrusion.
Let me be clear, however: you win; I lose. I concede. Yours is the preferred point of view, although it has the dubious advantage--from my sad point of view--of proving what I have said to be true. Look around you at all the sentences and paragraphs--the fully formed, intelligible, coherent ones--millions of them. They are everywhere. Do you seriously believe the writers of all those grammatical sentences could not have been written without some pre-existing conscious knowledge derived by "learning grammar."
>'Twas brillig and the slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe....>>
Is this "sentence" the product of broken rules? Is it a manifestation of those rules? Is it gibberish? Is it grammatical? What tools are required from the grammar kit to put the bits together by the assembly method? Do you know? Or did you just recite your grammatical catechism?
I am the ancient mariner. I can't be stopped. Forgive my rudely skeptical intrusion.
2
We have computer spell checkers. Maybe grammar checkers could be developed.
Lyse wrote: “I am from the rusty little tin roof house, from washing by hand and line drying.” It was a gorgeous sentence, and she was well on her way to a moving college application essay.
THAT is what gets you into Yale? When I was in prep school, one had to be a straight A student, earner of a high SAT, on the track team, on the school yearbook committee, and in the science club. I was latch-key kid with a single mom living in a small apartment. Could I have written about eating TV dinners alone in front a an old TV with broken rabbit ears? I am from a poor reception household, from eating dinner alone and waiting for the bus.
THAT is what gets you into Yale? When I was in prep school, one had to be a straight A student, earner of a high SAT, on the track team, on the school yearbook committee, and in the science club. I was latch-key kid with a single mom living in a small apartment. Could I have written about eating TV dinners alone in front a an old TV with broken rabbit ears? I am from a poor reception household, from eating dinner alone and waiting for the bus.
1
No college essay alone can "get you into" Yale. You still need the straight A's, honors classes, student government, debate team, athletics. And research in a cancer lab . . .
That's reassuring.
Moving pictures on the front page of the web edition such as the one for this article are irritating by making it difficult to scan and read headlines.
2
Television ads are not helping much either -- they have completely lost the adverb. 'Quickly' is now 'quick;' 'happily' has become 'happy;' and 'quietly' is transformed to 'quiet.' Ad agency editors ought to stand-up for proper grammar. Where is Safire when we need him?
1
I have heard raising kids these days is a bushelful of fun. This article substantiates that claim. Some observations, with regards to this, from a concerned citizen:
Parents, please take the touch screens away from your children until they learn these important life skills. It is becoming increasingly difficult to provoke your children in online video games when they cannot understand basic English. My verbose derision is now lost on them. Sad.
Parents, please take the touch screens away from your children until they learn these important life skills. It is becoming increasingly difficult to provoke your children in online video games when they cannot understand basic English. My verbose derision is now lost on them. Sad.
1
As Steve Martin used to say in one of his routines: "Some people have a way with words, and some people ... ohhh ... not have way."
1
I learned to write in the 11th and 12th grades from a teacher who would give two grades for a paper, one for grammar and punctuation and one for content. One grammar mistake gave you a D on that part of the paper. Clearly Trump did not have such a teacher. And without good instruction in grammar and the organization of ideas, we may end up with far too many Trumps. Here is a quote from the transcription of his latest interview with the Wall Street Journal:
"I want to achieve growth. We’re the highest-taxed nation in the world, essentially, you know, of the size. But we’re the highest-taxed nation in the world. We have—nobody knows what the number is. I mean, it used to be, when we talked during the debate, 2 ½ trillion (dollars), right, when the most elegant person—right? I call him Mr. Elegant. I mean, that was a great debate. We did such a great job. But at that time I was talking $2 ½ trillion. I guess it’s 5 trillion (dollars) now. Whatever it is, it’s a lot more. So we have anywhere from 4 to 5 or even more trillions of dollars sitting offshore."
What have we done to ourselves in electing this ignoramus as president?
"I want to achieve growth. We’re the highest-taxed nation in the world, essentially, you know, of the size. But we’re the highest-taxed nation in the world. We have—nobody knows what the number is. I mean, it used to be, when we talked during the debate, 2 ½ trillion (dollars), right, when the most elegant person—right? I call him Mr. Elegant. I mean, that was a great debate. We did such a great job. But at that time I was talking $2 ½ trillion. I guess it’s 5 trillion (dollars) now. Whatever it is, it’s a lot more. So we have anywhere from 4 to 5 or even more trillions of dollars sitting offshore."
What have we done to ourselves in electing this ignoramus as president?
1
Unfortunately, ignoring mechanics and focusing on creative expression doesn't create good writers -- just sloppy ones.
1
Does it all really matter, since pretty soon we will all be talking emoji ?
( let alone writing in gibberish\slang of 140 characters or less )
( let alone writing in gibberish\slang of 140 characters or less )
1
The mechanics of writing is essential to the purpose of the writing being fulfilled. A sentence constructed without proper structure leads to the reader becoming confused as to the meaning the writer wished to convey.
1
@Cynthia
Aye, I am often confused, but that is a whole other story. Obviously, I was being facetious, but there is indeed an underlying point, which is; we are not teaching our kids to fully express themselves with the language of Shakespeare, but rather through said emojis and the like.
There truly is meaning beyond 140 characters.
Aye, I am often confused, but that is a whole other story. Obviously, I was being facetious, but there is indeed an underlying point, which is; we are not teaching our kids to fully express themselves with the language of Shakespeare, but rather through said emojis and the like.
There truly is meaning beyond 140 characters.
4
To learn what good writing is you gotta read good writing. I guess having people write these "it happened to me" pieces is an effective way to get them hooked into writing, and political, cultural and well-done personal memoirs have their place - but at some point we've got to encourage people to get off themselves and write about something bigger.
2
When all the dust settles, sloppy writing reflects sloppy thinking.
3
It's unsettling that your and you're are so often misused.
Also, some people don't fully understand the use of the appostrophe as in it's and its.
Also, some people don't fully understand the use of the appostrophe as in it's and its.
1
Let's get back to basics. We live in a society, that means we must communicate with those around us. In turn, this means we need a method that all parties understand and that has a common set of rules in order to avoid misunderstandings. It is not incompatible to teach a young person the rules of communication and allow them to explore their inner voice. You have to know the rules first, before you know which ones you can break. You also have to know when it is appropriate to follow the rules and when it is appropriate not to.
At a coffee shop open mike nite, let it all hang out! If, on the other hand, you are applying for a job at my store, at a minimum you must be able to speak and write in coherent, complete sentences. The education system is failing in its primary mission if its students don't have these skills.
At a coffee shop open mike nite, let it all hang out! If, on the other hand, you are applying for a job at my store, at a minimum you must be able to speak and write in coherent, complete sentences. The education system is failing in its primary mission if its students don't have these skills.
1
Accurate expression of any style in any language requires mastery of that language. The notion in language and arts education that classical mastery stifles creativity could not be less true. Indeed, quite the opposite. Only after you have mastered your medium, language here, can you get it out of your way and begin to create and innovate.
This old saw is as sharp today as it was when I first heard it five decades ago: If you cannot say what you mean you will probably not mean what you say. (To be accompanied by the long, bony, wagging index finger of my English teacher of the time.)
This old saw is as sharp today as it was when I first heard it five decades ago: If you cannot say what you mean you will probably not mean what you say. (To be accompanied by the long, bony, wagging index finger of my English teacher of the time.)
167
Absolutely true!!
I teach writing in the sciences. And I teach teachers who teach writing in the sciences. In order to write well, you must have something to say and someone to say it to. (Try to write an article about science that you do not understand for an audience that doesn't exist.)
Only once those first elements are in place - something to say and someone to say it to - can we focus on whether or not a sentence makes sense (does it say what you meant to say? in a way your audience will understand/find relevant?). The article and comments suggest that "writerly voice" is a nice thing to cultivate once the mechanics of writing are in place. But that's entirely backwards. We cultivate our ideas and our audiences, and then -- as our ideas become clear, as the feedback from our readers become clear -- does our writing become clear.
Only once those first elements are in place - something to say and someone to say it to - can we focus on whether or not a sentence makes sense (does it say what you meant to say? in a way your audience will understand/find relevant?). The article and comments suggest that "writerly voice" is a nice thing to cultivate once the mechanics of writing are in place. But that's entirely backwards. We cultivate our ideas and our audiences, and then -- as our ideas become clear, as the feedback from our readers become clear -- does our writing become clear.
My big complaint about how writing was taught was the requirement to hit a minimum number of words. "Give me 500 words describing the conflicts driving the protagonist in 'To Kill A Mockingbird' ". Aghhhh! You either want quality or quantity. In the real world of writing fewer better words triumph, only in the classroom does count count.
First learn the rules, then break them. And you're no e e Cummings.
1
A daunting task at best.
I was fortunate because my mother started reading to me at the age of 4 at bed time. I personally believe it should start there. I'm 64 and remember when English and writing composition were a regular staple of my primary and secondary education. In my undergraduate studies it was a general education requirement needed for a 4 year degree.
On a lighter note, while reviewing a new patient's history I looked on his information page. Next to the " In case of an emergency call " space on the form he wrote " 911 ".
I was fortunate because my mother started reading to me at the age of 4 at bed time. I personally believe it should start there. I'm 64 and remember when English and writing composition were a regular staple of my primary and secondary education. In my undergraduate studies it was a general education requirement needed for a 4 year degree.
On a lighter note, while reviewing a new patient's history I looked on his information page. Next to the " In case of an emergency call " space on the form he wrote " 911 ".
2
My nephew who just graduated High School has struggled with writing.
I was "called in" to assist him in writing some college essays.
(I make no claim of expertise as a writing instructor or as a writer as this post and many others by me will no doubt attest to)
OMG!
First off, the elementary school he attended NEVER taught him how to write in cursive.
How in "H E double toothpicks" can you expect a child to think fluidly when they have to print every thought.
He informed me that cursive was taught only in 4th grade and it was voluntary if the kids in his class didn't want to learn that they were given typing instruction.
He told me that virtually no one in his graduating class could write cursively.
He struggles to read cursive.
Then we get to the actual writing part of the equation.
OMG!!
In the end I was left with a choice, spend eternity trying to give him a crash writing course or...
Lets just say if the university he's attending made the decision to admit him based on his essay...
Well he's their problem now!
I was "called in" to assist him in writing some college essays.
(I make no claim of expertise as a writing instructor or as a writer as this post and many others by me will no doubt attest to)
OMG!
First off, the elementary school he attended NEVER taught him how to write in cursive.
How in "H E double toothpicks" can you expect a child to think fluidly when they have to print every thought.
He informed me that cursive was taught only in 4th grade and it was voluntary if the kids in his class didn't want to learn that they were given typing instruction.
He told me that virtually no one in his graduating class could write cursively.
He struggles to read cursive.
Then we get to the actual writing part of the equation.
OMG!!
In the end I was left with a choice, spend eternity trying to give him a crash writing course or...
Lets just say if the university he's attending made the decision to admit him based on his essay...
Well he's their problem now!
I am astonished on a daily basis by the poor usage of grammar verbally and written. My astonishment cuts across generations. Senior partners and new staff cannot discern between subject and object pronouns. I am met with blank stares when I correct them.
Let's not get into the usage of less or fewer, which requires higher math skills.
I agree not everyone is going to be a great writer, but knowledge of basic grammar will keep you out of trouble in every day transactions such as buying a car or a house.
Let's not get into the usage of less or fewer, which requires higher math skills.
I agree not everyone is going to be a great writer, but knowledge of basic grammar will keep you out of trouble in every day transactions such as buying a car or a house.
1
Bc they're follow scripts and timelines to teach # no time for process! Or the art of teaching!
Texting and social media usage don't help with grammar?
Gee, you could have knocked me over with a feather. Young people need basic structure, and proper usage must be taught. Otherwise the inmates are in charge, and nothing really is written coherently.
Welcome to a "Blade Runner" age in which everyone does there own thing, and rules are only for antiquated enclaves.
Gee, you could have knocked me over with a feather. Young people need basic structure, and proper usage must be taught. Otherwise the inmates are in charge, and nothing really is written coherently.
Welcome to a "Blade Runner" age in which everyone does there own thing, and rules are only for antiquated enclaves.
2
From Mark Twain to Toni Morrison to Bob Dylan American writers have made powerful use of the voices and dialects of those who do not speak "Standard English". These voices must not be stifled. Like folk art in painting and crafts, these Vox Populi do not conflict with the use of Standard English anymore than blues conflicts with classical music. A skilled writer or musician often learns how to use many such forms to communicate more effectively.
Unlike France, we have no official academy charged with maintaining Standard English. Thus, let a million flowers bloom, but try to keep within the garden paths when possible.
Unlike France, we have no official academy charged with maintaining Standard English. Thus, let a million flowers bloom, but try to keep within the garden paths when possible.
1
Kids can't write because they can't think. They can't form a logical thought from beginning to end. Writing is, at the very core, translating ideas into words. You have to be able to do that as a good writer. The best writers are able to choose words that most clearly convey these ideas. But if you have bad, poorly thought-out ideas, the words that reflect those ideas are as awful as the ideas themselves.
An article that proves the saying "those who can write, do. Those who can't teach." First, the notion that rules of grammar stifle creativity, beautiful sentences and personal expression is utter nonsense and disproved by any Jane Austen novel. Second, one doesn't learn rules to be handcuffed but rather to be organized and clear; when breaking a rule, it is to enhance expression or reinforce a point ("one learns the rules to understand why you're breaking them"--Coco Chanel). Intelligent teachers understand this and communicate it--and by all means dangle that participle. Last and most important, convey to young people good writing and good grammar are integral to clear, engaging writing. They are not either/or propositions. You can't have one without the other, as the saying goes.
9
In order to teach writing you must be able to write yourself and enable students to write as well. I learned the findamentals of writing in seventh grade from a teacher who assigned a composition of 150 to 200 words every single night and then corrected or commented upon about 50% of those essays on a random basis about three times a week. You never knew whose homework would be collected. This is exhausting labor for the teacher who is, in essence, your writing coach. I have friends with Ph.Ds who cannot write because they never had a writing coach set them on the right path. Writing is rewriting, re-reading and rewriting again and again, but we don't allow time for all the real thinking work required and the consequence is that we get blather and not erudition.
3
Students will develop "voice" when they have something to say and have mastered the tools of expression. They will have the first element when they have studied the world and their place in it and the second element when they know the rules of grammar and syntax.
Writing "what is inside" like this is a private conversation for an audience of one -- two if a composition teacher is unlucky enough to have to grade it. (I am one of them.) The teaching of writing contributes to the dumbing down of political discourse in this country. Need an example of someone who disregards the rules of language use, and projects that "inside voice" that has never met the world on the rest of the population? Watch the White House.
Writing "what is inside" like this is a private conversation for an audience of one -- two if a composition teacher is unlucky enough to have to grade it. (I am one of them.) The teaching of writing contributes to the dumbing down of political discourse in this country. Need an example of someone who disregards the rules of language use, and projects that "inside voice" that has never met the world on the rest of the population? Watch the White House.
3
It is possible, and indeed necessary, to teach the mechanics of good writing without stifling creativity. Most musicians who have spent untold hours practicing scales and fingering will attest that mastery of technique enables them -- and frees them -- to express their own voices in the richest possible way. Learning a skill set is empowering, not constricting. Well-educated and seasoned writers can flout the rules if they choose to do so, for effect, but will always have them in their arsenal. Teachers who sacrifice instruction in grammar, spelling, and clear composition hinder their students' language and writing development, setting them up for failure later in life, professionally and personally.
7
I second JR's point. Hearing somebody else play music will not give one the ability to play herself. Students need to learn how to write, and to practice it. Frankly, it's a losing battle. Kids do not write (or read) as much as they did thirty years ago. We can thank technology for stealing their time.
If children don't know English grammar then it doesn't matter what they think because they won't be able to communicate their thoughts effectively. Grammar is not that difficult to learn and learning it will benefit all aspects of their lives. I cringe when I hear someone say, "Me and my friend went to the mall." A more frequent error is using the subjective case after a preposition. What's a preposition?
If we don't give children the proper tools for communication then it will be impossible for them to learn composition. That is not much different from trying to teach arithmetic without teaching the placement of numbers. Good grammar in speech and writing is still an asset worth having. Using poor grammar makes people sound stupid even if they have something important to say.
If we don't give children the proper tools for communication then it will be impossible for them to learn composition. That is not much different from trying to teach arithmetic without teaching the placement of numbers. Good grammar in speech and writing is still an asset worth having. Using poor grammar makes people sound stupid even if they have something important to say.
5
Please tell this to Ms Sokolowski. She seems to have missed the point completely. I don't think the majority of the teachers in this article really don'tunderstand Billy Collins. They seemed to have missed the true beauty in "The lanyard" I don't think they read enough.
I help seniors with their college essays. In a typical brainstorming session, I ask the student to first verbalize what their response to the prompt will be, jot down relevant words and phrases, maybe even do a brief outline. Only then do they begin to actually write. Many say they've never had any one-on-one guidance on how to write an essay or how to analyze a prompt. They feel like they're flying solo. My schoolteacher friends would love to have time to chat individually with students but they have hundreds of essays to critique for any one assignment. What's Betsy's solution? Cuts to class size reduction plans and tax credits. Yikes.
2
I had a college English composition teacher who wrote professionally. He was published in the New Yorker and other respected magazines.
He taught writing like a trade. He'd assign essays done in the first person or third person. He'd assign essays where we gave directions on how to get from point A to point B, instructions on how to do simple things, e.g., opening a can of food.
During the first class, he said he'd mark down for grammatical errors and misspellings, but he wasn't there to teach grade school grammar.
He expected clear writing with correct grammar and spelling. He often got it.
He taught writing like a trade. He'd assign essays done in the first person or third person. He'd assign essays where we gave directions on how to get from point A to point B, instructions on how to do simple things, e.g., opening a can of food.
During the first class, he said he'd mark down for grammatical errors and misspellings, but he wasn't there to teach grade school grammar.
He expected clear writing with correct grammar and spelling. He often got it.
@AllisonatPLUS
Reading comments after reading this column has turned me into a WORD NAZI!
I have yet to read any comment that would meet APA guidelines. Split infinitive-“to actually write,” run-on sentences, incomplete sentences and so on.
These comments would drive William Strunk Jr. who wrote “The Elements of Style” to distraction.
Use of neologisms such as “verbalize” or writing the incorrect tense of verbs sets off my alarms.Using the word “like” instead of the phrase “such as” in expressing parallelism sends chills down my back.
Unnecessary or incorrect use of commas was the theme of an entire book entitled “Eats, Shoots, and Leaves.” The use of the Oxford comma was the basis of an extensive essay by this paper’s copy editor.
When should we expect APA style or William Strunk Jr. perfection? I am required to write with such erudition when I submit a paper to a peer research journal. But the rest of the time such as writing a comment that limits one to 1500 characters one certainly doesn’t expect correct grammar, correct verb tense, perfect spelling and punctuation...or does it?
Many people use their smart phones to send a comment or email. The difference between written and spoken words is dramatic. We see the conclusion of many emails with the phrase “sent via iPhone” or other similar words.
So I end by writing "Mary wen pau cooking da rice sidez we wen seen dat movie already! Jes hang loose brah, ain’t no big t’ing!”
Hawai’an pidgin is an oral language!
Reading comments after reading this column has turned me into a WORD NAZI!
I have yet to read any comment that would meet APA guidelines. Split infinitive-“to actually write,” run-on sentences, incomplete sentences and so on.
These comments would drive William Strunk Jr. who wrote “The Elements of Style” to distraction.
Use of neologisms such as “verbalize” or writing the incorrect tense of verbs sets off my alarms.Using the word “like” instead of the phrase “such as” in expressing parallelism sends chills down my back.
Unnecessary or incorrect use of commas was the theme of an entire book entitled “Eats, Shoots, and Leaves.” The use of the Oxford comma was the basis of an extensive essay by this paper’s copy editor.
When should we expect APA style or William Strunk Jr. perfection? I am required to write with such erudition when I submit a paper to a peer research journal. But the rest of the time such as writing a comment that limits one to 1500 characters one certainly doesn’t expect correct grammar, correct verb tense, perfect spelling and punctuation...or does it?
Many people use their smart phones to send a comment or email. The difference between written and spoken words is dramatic. We see the conclusion of many emails with the phrase “sent via iPhone” or other similar words.
So I end by writing "Mary wen pau cooking da rice sidez we wen seen dat movie already! Jes hang loose brah, ain’t no big t’ing!”
Hawai’an pidgin is an oral language!
1
The fact is that very few students will actually make a living as novelists, poets, screenwriters, or playwrights. A few more will have to write business briefs, reports, and analytical papers. More will write social media blogs, posts, or tweets. Some won't write much at all. Saying students need to find "their voices" is important for the few that see themselves as potential writers. Let them explore those classes as electives like those who want to pursue sciences take specialized science electives.
Most kids can't find their "voice" because their voice changes so often as they develop. More emphasis needs to be put on grammar and organized writing for the majority of students. If they know how to organize their thoughts (think 5 paragraph essay) and can do so using proper grammar, they will have a skill that will enable them to succeed in many occupations.
If they want to write novels later, they can find their voice later and become the next Hemingway. Until then get back to teaching kids to think critically and write articulately. Retired after 31 years of teaching and most of my former students thank me often for teaching them to write in an organized style.
Most kids can't find their "voice" because their voice changes so often as they develop. More emphasis needs to be put on grammar and organized writing for the majority of students. If they know how to organize their thoughts (think 5 paragraph essay) and can do so using proper grammar, they will have a skill that will enable them to succeed in many occupations.
If they want to write novels later, they can find their voice later and become the next Hemingway. Until then get back to teaching kids to think critically and write articulately. Retired after 31 years of teaching and most of my former students thank me often for teaching them to write in an organized style.
7
Absolutely frightening to me that children are not taught grammar these days! We were taught grammar in elementary and junior high school in New York City in the 50s and 60s and the best teacher I ever had was a Jesuit-trained grammar martinet who had us diagramming 10 clause sentences. He and his ilk would be considered too demanding in many schools today but oh how they are needed.
9
Ah, the genuine voice.
Outside of a few truly talented youngsters, finding ones "written voice" is hard, because most young people have not organized their own thoughts, much less learned how to think in an organized coherent, and non-reactive, non-emotional manner.
Outside of a few youngsters, like Lyse, who have lived a truly interesting, not so regular life...the "voice" of the avg suburban/urban, well schooled student is going to be forced to be what the student thinks adults want to hear. Plus, what life experiences have these kids experienced that has not already been beaten to death by cliches and pop-culture? So that all they do is rely on them to build their quasi-struggle-success story.
Smart children seeking acceptance by adults to gain entry to the next stage in their life, have long ago learned to parrot back what adults want them to say.
Their authentic voice is a parody...their real voice wont truly develop for years...
Outside of a few truly talented youngsters, finding ones "written voice" is hard, because most young people have not organized their own thoughts, much less learned how to think in an organized coherent, and non-reactive, non-emotional manner.
Outside of a few youngsters, like Lyse, who have lived a truly interesting, not so regular life...the "voice" of the avg suburban/urban, well schooled student is going to be forced to be what the student thinks adults want to hear. Plus, what life experiences have these kids experienced that has not already been beaten to death by cliches and pop-culture? So that all they do is rely on them to build their quasi-struggle-success story.
Smart children seeking acceptance by adults to gain entry to the next stage in their life, have long ago learned to parrot back what adults want them to say.
Their authentic voice is a parody...their real voice wont truly develop for years...
3
Indeed, grammar and spelling count. However, let's get down to brass tacks:
if you wish to be a good writer, or you wish others to be good writers there is one and only one solution, writing. Without constant practice, the willingness to write multiple drafts, to read aloud to catch errors, and to have others read your copy before submitting for a grade, for having a piece published, etc., one will never learn to write well. With writing practice never will make one perfect, but it certainly will make one better.
if you wish to be a good writer, or you wish others to be good writers there is one and only one solution, writing. Without constant practice, the willingness to write multiple drafts, to read aloud to catch errors, and to have others read your copy before submitting for a grade, for having a piece published, etc., one will never learn to write well. With writing practice never will make one perfect, but it certainly will make one better.
3
For my part I ignore people who cannot write (or speak) with decent grammar. Unless, of course, they're new to English.
I've had it with those who don't take the time to learn how to use the language correctly.
I've had it with those who don't take the time to learn how to use the language correctly.
6
This issue is just another example of the dumbing down of America. Education in the US is headed in the wrong direction. This week or last there was an article arguing for less instruction in math. We won't need it, the argument went, our computers will do it all for us. UGH!!! Math and language instruction including writing, influences brain development as well as critical and logical thinking.
I teach "smart" twenty-somethings in healthcare who cannot take a 15 second pulse rate and multiply that number by 4 to come up with beats/minute without using their smart phones. Is this what it's come to? Folks, we're in trouble
I teach "smart" twenty-somethings in healthcare who cannot take a 15 second pulse rate and multiply that number by 4 to come up with beats/minute without using their smart phones. Is this what it's come to? Folks, we're in trouble
10
Much more investigation and deeper analysis of the learning to read, write, and speak needs to begin at the beginning of formal instruction. For writing, it begins with letter recognition and letter forming, with a pencil, on paper. How much difference does it make we might ask, if children work on keyboards, and how early, and how deeply? What, for example, is the relationship between doing letter and word formation with a pencil or with a keystroke? a stylus on a tablet? How does that affect the onset of letter recognition and its next threshold sight word recognition? These developmental concepts only scratch the surface of learning to write fluently and some of the insights to be gained may guide us to more best practices in instruction.
I am at a loss as to how we expect kids to write a simple yet effective sentence these days when after hearing most teenagers speak for 30 seconds or less, every other word is "like" "you know" "like, like" "you know", "right?" If a simple conversation is a struggle, then the written word ain't got a chance. I am perplexed how either of my two grand kids ever graduated from college. To this day, neither can have a meaningful exchange of spoken thoughts, ideas or comments and asking them to write something is equally as painful.
5
Please teach our children the correct usage of grammar --- and let them grow and soar based on that foundation. We do not want to produce a generation of Americans who write the way Donald Trump tweets.
6
Growing up in the Twin Cities in Minnesota in the 40's and 50's, we were immersed in the spoken word. Families visited neighborhood libraries, weekly to hear professional readers, selected books and on cold winter nights read aloud or silently at home. Excellent radio programs presented programs for children - adventures, classic tales and science hours augmented school lessons. Children's theater, debate cycles, choral singing all emphasized language excellence. Too hear the difference fo today's children, just check into one of their favorite apps and you will understand the perverse influences for language learning.
5
I learned how to diagram sentences in elementary school. Then, I was taught how to propose and develop a thesis. In high school, excellent English teachers taught me critical editorial skills and guided me through the drafting process again and again, step by painstaking step.
Teaching grammar, usage, vocabulary, writing mechanics (and the many related topics) – – none of that is glamorous, but it is critically important. Meaningful personal expression can -- and, with encouragement, will -- sprout from a firm foundation. We must learn to walk before we can learn to dance.
(With deep gratitude to Sewickley Academy's legendary Dr. Finlay McQuade, stellar English teacher and developer of the "Proposition Analysis" approach to expository writing.)
Teaching grammar, usage, vocabulary, writing mechanics (and the many related topics) – – none of that is glamorous, but it is critically important. Meaningful personal expression can -- and, with encouragement, will -- sprout from a firm foundation. We must learn to walk before we can learn to dance.
(With deep gratitude to Sewickley Academy's legendary Dr. Finlay McQuade, stellar English teacher and developer of the "Proposition Analysis" approach to expository writing.)
7
I heartily agree that the "hard work" of teaching grammar, usage, sentence diagramming and the like is an excellent means of producing good writers. My English teachers did all these things, and taught us to choose theses and topic sentences as starting points for certain types of writing. They also had us revise "theme" papers at least twice. These processes not only made it easier for me to become a newspaper reporter and editor, but a public speaker and an attorney. Studying the "structure" of sentences and longer written pieces makes one, not only a better writer, but a better thinker and speaker.