Where is Meera Reed now? She dragged Bran on that sled all the way from beyond the wall, to Winterfell. Shouldn't she be offered bread and salt for hospitality by Sansa? As well, she is the daughter of the heroic Howland Reed, who saved Ned Stark in the battle with Ser Arthur Dayne. Meera has status; what have the writers done with her?
4
Good point but I think she's considered expendable, plotwise. I would bet that really she went off for a nice hot meal and an extremely long bath. During the latter she may well have eyed the walls suspiciously, trying to catch some three eyed raven voyeurism.
1
Goodbye, sweet Meera. I hope you make it home to you family in time.
Thank you, Dan.
Thank you, Dan.
2
This season until now.. has been the fail of Tyrion Lannister. The imp is falling "Short" on strategizing too.
Tyrion's got some great lines though, like: "Everyone who makes a joke about a dwarf's height thinks he's the only person ever to make a joke about a dwarf's height. "The height of nobility," "a man of your stature," "someone to look up to." You're all making the same five or six jokes."
3
My thoughts:
1. Did anyone else think that Jamie and Cercei's chemistry has been gone for a long time? For two such beautiful people, their sex scenes are not appealing. They're putting in a lot of time over the past few seasons into shoring up Jamie's love for Cercei, presumably to make a future betrayal (perhaps now that he knows for sure that Tyrion was unjustly accused?) more poignant. But it's not working for me.
2. Gendry is definitely coming back. I am also strongly holding on to the belief that Arya's sword instructor didn't actually die in season 1, and that there is a larger implication to the Many-Faced-God plotline than just turning Arya into an assassin. Something else has yet to be revealed.
3. Littlefinger and Varys both have something major up their sleeves, especially Littlefinger.
4. I wonder how Bran's knowledge of Jon's true parents will come into play. Jon can't prove or convince people that he is Targaryn, so presumably it will come to light in some demonstration, like riding the dragon, or not burning in fire.
5. I still think Dany has the potential to go mad like her father. Her speech to Jon showed that glimmer, before she dialed it back under Tyrion's counsel. Perhaps if one of her dragons is killed, we will see this side of her.
6. A lot of screen time has been given to Jorah and Sam, and with such minor characters. Their pact to each other will clearly play an important role later one.
1. Did anyone else think that Jamie and Cercei's chemistry has been gone for a long time? For two such beautiful people, their sex scenes are not appealing. They're putting in a lot of time over the past few seasons into shoring up Jamie's love for Cercei, presumably to make a future betrayal (perhaps now that he knows for sure that Tyrion was unjustly accused?) more poignant. But it's not working for me.
2. Gendry is definitely coming back. I am also strongly holding on to the belief that Arya's sword instructor didn't actually die in season 1, and that there is a larger implication to the Many-Faced-God plotline than just turning Arya into an assassin. Something else has yet to be revealed.
3. Littlefinger and Varys both have something major up their sleeves, especially Littlefinger.
4. I wonder how Bran's knowledge of Jon's true parents will come into play. Jon can't prove or convince people that he is Targaryn, so presumably it will come to light in some demonstration, like riding the dragon, or not burning in fire.
5. I still think Dany has the potential to go mad like her father. Her speech to Jon showed that glimmer, before she dialed it back under Tyrion's counsel. Perhaps if one of her dragons is killed, we will see this side of her.
6. A lot of screen time has been given to Jorah and Sam, and with such minor characters. Their pact to each other will clearly play an important role later one.
8
#6 - They are not minor characters. Just because Jorah hasn't had much screen time does not mean he is minor.
#5 I see you are a Dany-hater. In fact, the internet is abuzz with the idea that although Dany will die before taking the iron throne, she will in fact die heroically, saving many thousands of innocent people.
#5 I see you are a Dany-hater. In fact, the internet is abuzz with the idea that although Dany will die before taking the iron throne, she will in fact die heroically, saving many thousands of innocent people.
3
A few late observations:
1. Cersei bores me. The villains on GOT tend to always bore me. They become so one-dimensionally evil.
2. A good/fitting ending for Cersei would be if she ended up becoming the new Night King at the end of the season (cruelty, murder AND immortality?)
3. I am hoping that the little Sand Snake somehow contrives to kill the Mountain, perhaps with her own poisoned lips, as she promised to do in the previous episode. He was still in the cell when Cersei left.
4. The success of the Lannisters might be due to a spy, but honestly the whole thing feels implausible. Sometimes overwhelming forces do exist, and they win quickly. Due to comment #1 above (Cersei bores me), I wish they would speed this infighting along or come up with some more interesting conflict to explore. We've been dealing with Cersei forever. She's boring!
5. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like to see Lady Olenna survive.
6. I truly do not care about Littlefinger and Sansa. Bran has the potential to be so much more interesting -- he is truly one of three or four true-to-fantasy elements on this show -- and has gotten short shrift.
7. A dragon is definitely getting wounded or killed next episode.
8. The solution to Dany's military strategic incompetence would be to have Jon Snow consult (and perhaps lead her forces -- a dragon, maybe -- into battle). I suppose that would be awfully close to "bending the knee" but he's clearly the Targaryen she's missing.
1. Cersei bores me. The villains on GOT tend to always bore me. They become so one-dimensionally evil.
2. A good/fitting ending for Cersei would be if she ended up becoming the new Night King at the end of the season (cruelty, murder AND immortality?)
3. I am hoping that the little Sand Snake somehow contrives to kill the Mountain, perhaps with her own poisoned lips, as she promised to do in the previous episode. He was still in the cell when Cersei left.
4. The success of the Lannisters might be due to a spy, but honestly the whole thing feels implausible. Sometimes overwhelming forces do exist, and they win quickly. Due to comment #1 above (Cersei bores me), I wish they would speed this infighting along or come up with some more interesting conflict to explore. We've been dealing with Cersei forever. She's boring!
5. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like to see Lady Olenna survive.
6. I truly do not care about Littlefinger and Sansa. Bran has the potential to be so much more interesting -- he is truly one of three or four true-to-fantasy elements on this show -- and has gotten short shrift.
7. A dragon is definitely getting wounded or killed next episode.
8. The solution to Dany's military strategic incompetence would be to have Jon Snow consult (and perhaps lead her forces -- a dragon, maybe -- into battle). I suppose that would be awfully close to "bending the knee" but he's clearly the Targaryen she's missing.
Jon is a fighter, not a strategist. He caused Rickon to die due to letting emotion overcome strategy. It was Sansa and Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale who saved the day. Give Sansa more credit. Bran is getting on my nerves with his monotone.
Where is Meera Reed?
Where is Meera Reed?
4
The negative outcomes in this episode for Daenerys expose the possibility that there is someone in her council that is providing Cersei with critical information. How could Varys, with his menagerie of 'little sparrows' , been caught flat-footed as to the Lannister/Euron Greyjoy movements? The only possible explanation is that he is playing another double game or the menagerie has been subverted by Littlefinger.
5
Bran wargs into Drogon.
3
Given Tyrion's two strategic blunders as The Queen's Hand, I see Jorah as the future commander- in- chief of her military. His cure was not without reason.
5
I don't know if I should be as bothered by this as I am, but I'm tired of reading reviews where Theon is referred to as "pathetic." I mean, I know it's a show, but dude clearly has PTSD. Would we call a returned soldier pathetic for wanting to escape scenarios reminiscent of the horrors he/she witnessed? I'd hope not. Again, I know it's just a show, but the flippant attitude towards the character's extremely normal reaction to being tortured just illustrates how mental health is regarded to me.
18
Agree on the Theon point. I don't see him as pathetic at all. His reaction is normal for someone with PTSD. And clearly there is more story coming for Theon. He will redeem himself and I actually think he may still be around at the end of the series.
10
From the tech site BetaNews -
As Game of Thrones spoilers leak online, Panda Security issues a stark warning
"This week's hack of HBO led to the release of stolen episodes of Ballers and Room 104, and the threat of Game of Thrones leaks. Now the hackers have made good on their threat and uploaded scripts and episode summaries for yet-to-be-aired episodes, and speculation is rife that it is just a matter of time before episodes hit torrent sites such as The Pirate Bay.
Season seven of the show is just getting underway, and details of episodes three and four have now been published online. Other files have also been leaked following the hack, including log in credentials for HBO staff.
The script for episode four of the show is dated April 2016. As this is more than a year old, it is entirely possible that it is not a final version, but it is bad news for HBO nonetheless. The motives of the hackers are not clear as there have been no public demands for a ransom, and HBO has made no indication that any such demands have been made privately.
But before you rush to see what the leaked scripts and summaries include, Panda Security has issued a warning:
We firmly suggest you not to download the torrent and not to visit the shady websites that may list the stolen information. Visiting torrent sites could be harmful to your computer..."
https://betanews.com/2017/08/02/game-of-thrones-spoilers-leak/
Wonder why the NYT is not following this story closely...
As Game of Thrones spoilers leak online, Panda Security issues a stark warning
"This week's hack of HBO led to the release of stolen episodes of Ballers and Room 104, and the threat of Game of Thrones leaks. Now the hackers have made good on their threat and uploaded scripts and episode summaries for yet-to-be-aired episodes, and speculation is rife that it is just a matter of time before episodes hit torrent sites such as The Pirate Bay.
Season seven of the show is just getting underway, and details of episodes three and four have now been published online. Other files have also been leaked following the hack, including log in credentials for HBO staff.
The script for episode four of the show is dated April 2016. As this is more than a year old, it is entirely possible that it is not a final version, but it is bad news for HBO nonetheless. The motives of the hackers are not clear as there have been no public demands for a ransom, and HBO has made no indication that any such demands have been made privately.
But before you rush to see what the leaked scripts and summaries include, Panda Security has issued a warning:
We firmly suggest you not to download the torrent and not to visit the shady websites that may list the stolen information. Visiting torrent sites could be harmful to your computer..."
https://betanews.com/2017/08/02/game-of-thrones-spoilers-leak/
Wonder why the NYT is not following this story closely...
7
Because NYT doesn't want us go rooting around the internet looking for those scripts. Now you've let the dragon out of the bag....
Actually, I first saw the report on NYT on Monday: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017/07/31/business/31reuters-cyber-hbo....
Actually, I first saw the report on NYT on Monday: https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2017/07/31/business/31reuters-cyber-hbo....
1
I'm pretty certain that at least one if not two of the dragons are going to be pierced and put out of commission next week.
BTW....Why didn't Euron present Yara to Cersei? I thought she was in tow along with Ellaria and Tyene...
Yara is an issue of personal revenge for him.
4
Yup, Cersei oddly has no beef with Yara, they never ran into each other.
1
Hmmmm...Your prolly right.
I'd like to see Dany and her dragons attack Euron and his fleet at night. With enough darkness, the dragons and her would be a much tougher target to hit. As tough as the Ironborn may be, they've never faced anything with the power of the dragons.
2
For all of the talk about characters transporting great distances from one episode to the next, I wonder about this: Maisie Williams (Arya) is petite. As Arya, she took the face of a much taller person in Walder Frey. If she was to do the same (borrow the face of a taller character) wouldn't others look at the next victim and wonder, "I thought so-and-so was taller". If she's seated, it's not a problem but standing?
1
The problem is not just with the height, but the whole body type.
I assume the way it works is some kind of (slight) mind-altering magic where the face-mask acts as a cue for anyone who sees her/him to project their own memory associated with that face onto her/him. In other words, they see what they expect to see, regardless of what's actually there. This can apply to other aspects too, such as the voice/accent, etc.
I assume the way it works is some kind of (slight) mind-altering magic where the face-mask acts as a cue for anyone who sees her/him to project their own memory associated with that face onto her/him. In other words, they see what they expect to see, regardless of what's actually there. This can apply to other aspects too, such as the voice/accent, etc.
1
I think you're thinking too physically. It's almost as if the "face" of the dead person is merely a symbol - she's morphing into the dead person completely - not putting on a mask and remaining the same otherwise. It's a supernatural phenomenon. Remember: her voice is also changing. Putting on someone's face isn't going to change your voice, so it's more than physiological.
3
I would be surprised if copying the rotting scrolls wasn't Samwell's reward. The arch-maester had the entire day to gather these for Samwell, whose duties up until now were serving food and emptying night pans. Sam learns fast, and I'm pretty certain that these scrolls and books will hold invaluable information for the upcoming fight against the Army of the Dead, and allow Sam to obtain the Valerian steel chainlink and become more than just a mere maester.
This episode seemed to move almost too fast with two battles, and major meetings within an hour. The pace is picking up with nearly every episode since the story progressed beyond the published books. While I understand the quickening pace due to limitations in the shooting schedules, I regret we'll only be getting 7 episodes this season rather than 10.
I appreciated the strategies employed by the Lannisters. A family long versed in warfare and controlling regions easily outmatched the wits of a novice queen with a well trained but servile army and a horde of marauders.
I'm looking forward to the upcoming conflicts, reunion with Arya, and the talk between Bran and Jon.
This episode seemed to move almost too fast with two battles, and major meetings within an hour. The pace is picking up with nearly every episode since the story progressed beyond the published books. While I understand the quickening pace due to limitations in the shooting schedules, I regret we'll only be getting 7 episodes this season rather than 10.
I appreciated the strategies employed by the Lannisters. A family long versed in warfare and controlling regions easily outmatched the wits of a novice queen with a well trained but servile army and a horde of marauders.
I'm looking forward to the upcoming conflicts, reunion with Arya, and the talk between Bran and Jon.
13
The names of the other two dragons were revealed long ago, in Seaon Two, if I recall. But I especially remember Daenerys calling her children by name in Seaon Five, when she visited them in the catacombs.
3
I want to know how long it takes or what it takes to get a Maester's link. The books say the maesters create their chains as they master various subjects. One would think that after Sam has cured the uncurable he'd at least get one link on his chain, wouldn't you? I really was hoping the arch-maester was going to give him his first link when he required Sam to come to his quarters.
7
I was thinking the same thing...poor Sam.
1
They give out a silver one (silver has antibacterial properties) for having mastered the "healing arts".
Sam rates a Valaryan steel one (one who has studied the "higher mysteries") too, by my count, for having rediscovered the usefulness of dragon glass.
He's on a roll!
Sam rates a Valaryan steel one (one who has studied the "higher mysteries") too, by my count, for having rediscovered the usefulness of dragon glass.
He's on a roll!
3
You can't make a chain out of a single link, especially not with a neck as fat as Sam's. A maester needs to be learned in many subjects, not just one. I'm not aware that the exact rules of the Citadel are described anywhere, but I imagine that an apprentice has to pass some kind of exam in a certain number of basic fields plus some extra fields of his choosing and then would receive his chain made out of the links he already earned in a special ceremony, making him a maester. Presumably more links can be added later when he earns them.
Did the costume designer base Cersei's outfit the other night on Maleficent?
4
I've noticed that in a pretty short period of time the Lannister/royal colors have taken a decidedly dark bent. Cersei's gone with black--presumably to give lip service to being 'in mourning' for her children--and apparently their entire army has been recolored appropriately to coordinate with her.
Course, as others have noted, everyone seems to be in black these days in Westeros.
Course, as others have noted, everyone seems to be in black these days in Westeros.
3
Does anyone think Tyrion is going to end up on the Iron Throne?
6
I think the most likely candidate is Jon Snow.
Jon Snow is the one whose motivation to serve the realm is most pure. Every step of the way, from commander of Night's Watch, head of House of Stark, to King of the North, he has never cared for the title/power.
And that has been a crucial reason for people's support of him, because he is the one person not playing game of thrones.
Normally in a story like this we'd all be rooting for Dany. But very often she shows a Mad Queen side.
She genuinely believes she has a divine destiny to rule. So like people who are so convinced they know what their gods want, there's no middle ground - either you are with god (and her) or against god (and therefore deserving the fire and blood treatment).
In feudal China the emperor is called "true dragon, son of heaven" - that's exactly how Dany sees herself right? She is god on earth, all mortals must bend their knees to her.
We can see how frustrated she gets when Jon questions this basic belief. When Jon brings up the inconvenient truth about her father - she demands people not to judge her by her lineage. But in the next breath she claims that lineage as the sole justification for her reign.
Within this unshakable belief in her own righteousness is the justification for cruelty. And if that come out, Varys and others could very well betray her. So in a way Jon represents a bigger change. If someone like him comes to power, that would really be breaking the wheel.
Jon Snow is the one whose motivation to serve the realm is most pure. Every step of the way, from commander of Night's Watch, head of House of Stark, to King of the North, he has never cared for the title/power.
And that has been a crucial reason for people's support of him, because he is the one person not playing game of thrones.
Normally in a story like this we'd all be rooting for Dany. But very often she shows a Mad Queen side.
She genuinely believes she has a divine destiny to rule. So like people who are so convinced they know what their gods want, there's no middle ground - either you are with god (and her) or against god (and therefore deserving the fire and blood treatment).
In feudal China the emperor is called "true dragon, son of heaven" - that's exactly how Dany sees herself right? She is god on earth, all mortals must bend their knees to her.
We can see how frustrated she gets when Jon questions this basic belief. When Jon brings up the inconvenient truth about her father - she demands people not to judge her by her lineage. But in the next breath she claims that lineage as the sole justification for her reign.
Within this unshakable belief in her own righteousness is the justification for cruelty. And if that come out, Varys and others could very well betray her. So in a way Jon represents a bigger change. If someone like him comes to power, that would really be breaking the wheel.
15
I guess it's too late for Gendry to make another appearance? He wouldn't have a Baratheon army behind him, but he could be another player in the game....
4
Actually in last episode, during Euron's trashing of Yara's fleet, if you looked closely you could see Gendry valiantly rowing past in the background.
7
What role is there for him? In GoT, characters play their part and then they die to make space for someone else in the narrative. Or, if they are really lucky, they just fall out of the picture, like Gendry has. He is not needed for anything. His father is just some unimportant dead rebel now, and Gendry just some random common boy. If he comes back, it will be just so he can be killed by someone.
2
yes, that's right, and he's a logical person to come back and help forge weapons made of dragonstone.....
2
Second to last season...things will not go well for the heroes. Cersei will be at the height of her reign before the final season. See...Star Wars, Harry Potter, et cetera. Considering this is the "evil wins" season, it will be interesting to see where they go from here. Dany has lost most of her armies and Jon is in the South...so what is of the "Resistance" to last four more episodes? The most annoying part about the destruction of the Dornish, the Tyrells, and faction of the "Iron Borne" was that it was without any drama. It was ridiculously easy. So, Dany now sits with her dragons, the Dothaki and the stranded unsullied. It took six seasons to get to Westeros and 3 episodes to put the whole invasion into severe jeopardy.
5
These things happen.
8
unfortunately those with a malicious streak are being killed off and all we have now are Cersei, and Euron. The latter being very small fry compared to the queen of sharks. As for littlefinger if his evil ways top Sansa then we wd have a third. The white walkers are definitely a threat but they are no substitute for human killers with devious personalities. I fear that with fewer manipulators and killers we will be left with a sappy romance of love and honor overcoming godziilla. not as good as what came before,
1
We're getting very Japanese these days. For centuries they have reveled in the details of horror, torture and blood in their popular graphics, even as they do today. Why shouldn't the earnest culture critics of the liberal West follow suit?
Rome is burning.
Rome is burning.
Oh relax, Shakespeare reveled in horror, torture, and blood too, as did the Ancient Greeks in their remarkably bloody plays. It's the human condition, it's always been this way for nearly every society.
14
This episode was not the first time we found out the names of the non-Drogon dragons. She has been calling them by their names since season 2.
3
When Olenna confessed to Jaime that it was she who killed his son, I thought that he was going to strangle her before the poison took effect.
10
I think that scene places the foundation for him being able to kill Cersei eventually (he was the second born twin, after all, making him a younger brother and therefore eligible for the prophecy). After all, Cersei was so insistent on killing Tyrion for Jeoffrey, but Tyrion was innocent all along (as is Sansa, the other focus for that vindictiveness). Jaime is not the man Brienne wants to believe he is, but he's a better person than he wants to be, and in that scene, even as he was giving Olenna a rationalization for accepting what Cersei's done to come to power, it rings kind of false.
3
I agree with keisate. Jaimie never gave a fig about Joffrey; he was never allowed to, lest he rouse suspicion.
His initial anger lay in the pain that was dealt Cersei by Joffery's murderer. What he displayed Sunday night, however, was, I believe, actual hurt by the injustice of what has been inflicted on Tyrion, his "little brother ", whom he has always loved.
His initial anger lay in the pain that was dealt Cersei by Joffery's murderer. What he displayed Sunday night, however, was, I believe, actual hurt by the injustice of what has been inflicted on Tyrion, his "little brother ", whom he has always loved.
3
If you are correct, it's another ironic twist on Kingslayer, right? He'd become the Queenslayer, too. And we can all agree Cersei is "mad."
why is leo strauss masquerading as tyrion?
I wish the NYT had a recapper who loved the show.
2
I think Mr. Egner likes it pretty well, and he does a good objective job of recapping. If it were a super fan writing the recap, it'd be rather subjective, ignoring all the valid minor criticisms.
8
Definitely not in the same class as the "Downton Abbey" recaps.
1
the civil war in Syria is not a Civil War. but genocide by a tyrant leader Assad. You don't have to go far to see parallel histories in real time with this show a sort of Wagnerian epic or the Knight's round table told all over again.
2
How much time has passed since Cersei's walk of shame? Long enough, one presumes, to grow her hair back somewhat if she'd wanted to. Maybe it's a sign of how frozen in hatred she's become, defined now by the humiliations she is trying to avenge. Otherwise, one would suppose she'd get rid of the Jean Seberg look asap, given the bad past associations.
6
The hair seems to be a choice. Look at the other women around her who have adopted the same style. Vanity Fair wrote a very good article on the deliberate decision to keep Cersei's hair short. Her hair fits with her past comments about resenting her powerless role as a woman.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-why-is-cers...
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-why-is-cers...
Is it just me or could Lord Randyll Tarly and Gen. John Kelly pass for full siblings?
9
lol
1
Playing "The Mountain" on this show has got to be the easiest big time role on TV. You notice him every time he's onscreen, even though he's doing nothing. Pretty sure he'll be going out in a blaze of glory at some point.
2
I see Arya Stark assassinating Cerci in the end. The only question is who she will impersonate when she does it.
7
Jaime.
4
See, I see Jaime killing her. Arya never had Jaime on her list to kill first.
2
Was the Mountain on her list?
1
My fantasy ending for GoT is Samwell is discovered to have some royal blood after providing key information that saves Dany & Snow Inc, and he marries Dany, leaving two fairly forward thinkers in charge of the 7K's.
1
And betray his commitment to Gilly and his adopted son Sam? That would be deeply out of character for him, as he is extremely loyal.
16
Jon Snow's 'Christlike tendencies'? Save this twaddle for some other platform Jeremy.
It took me a minute too. But he means "Christlike" in the sense he was raised from the dead by Melisandre. It's an apt description when looked at in this way.
8
Also he has the traditional long, dark, wavy, greasy hair of Christ, and the wispy beard. And a really pained, confused look on his face most of the time.
7
THINKING ahead, when Cersei flees Kings Landing after an assault by the Mother of Dragons and her children, it would be most appropriate for Cersei to meet her demise with her throat in the jaws of Nymeria the Direwolf.
9
Methinks too many are mansplaining to Sansa. LF and Bran ("it's possible to at all times and everywhere at once") to Jon Snow ("Take care of the house while I'm gone, even if you don't understand what I explained to you about the future) However, the philosophical darts coming her way do bring a real tension to her role. She is yet unformed into a permanent type of character,good or bad, there's an ambiguous expanse of middle ground that she is mired in. She could emerge as a Kaitlin or the next Cercei. My eye is on her. Also on Little Finger, whose words, spoken like a sacred truth, sounded like a key to understanding the whole show, a hint about our eventual take away regarding history, human nature, etc. nature
6
If the choice is between becoming a Catelyn or a Cersei, I hope she becomes a Cersei. Catelyn literally made not a single right decision in the whole series. It was mostly her that doomed her family. Every time she had to make a consequential choice, she made the wrong one.
2
I vote for Jon Snow, Sansa or Arya on the Iron Throne at the end with Little Finger lurking about as "The Hand." Little Finger loved Catelyn Stark and he is going to do everything he can to protect that family. I think he will win.
3
Wat? Yeah, he loved Catelyn so much that he arranged the conspiracy with Walder Frey to have her murdered.
He did love her as a boy, but she betrayed him by choosing Brandon Stark and then Ned Stark. After that, any professed affection for her was just tactics.
He may have some kind of genuine, twisted love for Sansa. Still, there is no doubt that he would betray her too if the incentive to do it was big enough or she would also betray him. His drive to "get everything there is" is stronger than anything else.
He did love her as a boy, but she betrayed him by choosing Brandon Stark and then Ned Stark. After that, any professed affection for her was just tactics.
He may have some kind of genuine, twisted love for Sansa. Still, there is no doubt that he would betray her too if the incentive to do it was big enough or she would also betray him. His drive to "get everything there is" is stronger than anything else.
2
Has anyone noticed that the current master of winterfell mentions next to Sana and Littlefinger (LF) that the previous master had kept all the crows messages recorded? Didn't LF received or sent a crow to Cersei from Winterfell when he delivered Sana to the Boltons?
7
The current maester that we saw on Sun. night's episode, was the maester at the time Sansa was delivered to the Boltons. The old maester (the one that served the Starks) was killed by Theon when he took the castle in season 2 (I think). I guess I'm more curious about any ravens that might have been sent in season 1 when Catlyn was sleuthing about who tried to kill Bran with the dagger, or something else. Then again, I remember her saying it was too risky to send ravens in case the Lannisters captured one; that's why she herself when to Kings Landing to talk to Ned about the dagger. I don't know enough of the history of the of the ravens to and from Winterfell, but I figure there has to be something in there that the maester will come across and show Sansa, because why else would they mention it?
2
Never mind the bird-mails, couldn't Bran see LF's past betrayal and tell rest of the Starks about it?
16
The Hound was there when Littlefinger betrayed Ned Stark, and he is heading north, and he is rather fond of Sansa. I suspect that is where that storyline is going.
6
Am I the only one who watches, in large part, because of the amazing costumes and sets? I find them transfixing, almost distracting. I find myself pausing just to examine someone's jacket or gown, or to wonder how they did that set.
And it seems as if nearly all the costumes and sets are only used in one or two scenes. That's production value. I've never seen anything like it.
And it seems as if nearly all the costumes and sets are only used in one or two scenes. That's production value. I've never seen anything like it.
34
I stopped myself from lamenting the lamentable "correctness" view of rightness/wrongness of usage items such as "spit and image" vs "splitting image" vs "spitting image" and variations, not only possible but that carry information a careful reader might pick up or a careful writer might convey. Googling through the history of the "spitting image" was time well spent, so I counted it a gain; whereas nearly nothing is to be gained by protesting the error interpretation of usage, always a matter of opinion, and opinion is always, yes always, inherently unreliable.
Might go on to illustrate the prevalence of the expression "this is a doggy dog world"; always puzzled me. What image of the world is in the mind of those who use the phrase? Might compare it to another item, very common in Florida, where people park their cars in/on "a car porch." To "correct" the "porch" to "port" is to falsify the image, to obscure the observation, to show less than can be known.
So instead I picked up Trotsky's "History of the Russian Revolution," chapter 8, reading that much ink has been spilled describing February 1917 as "essentially a petticoat rebellion, backed up afterward by a soldiers' mutiny, and given out for a revolution." Louis XVI called the capture of the Bastille a rebellion. The privileged classes call revolutions "a mutiny, a riot, a revolt of the rabble."
Privileged classes narrow minds and falsify the observable world. Error-minded English teachers need a Revolution.
Might go on to illustrate the prevalence of the expression "this is a doggy dog world"; always puzzled me. What image of the world is in the mind of those who use the phrase? Might compare it to another item, very common in Florida, where people park their cars in/on "a car porch." To "correct" the "porch" to "port" is to falsify the image, to obscure the observation, to show less than can be known.
So instead I picked up Trotsky's "History of the Russian Revolution," chapter 8, reading that much ink has been spilled describing February 1917 as "essentially a petticoat rebellion, backed up afterward by a soldiers' mutiny, and given out for a revolution." Louis XVI called the capture of the Bastille a rebellion. The privileged classes call revolutions "a mutiny, a riot, a revolt of the rabble."
Privileged classes narrow minds and falsify the observable world. Error-minded English teachers need a Revolution.
9
Euron's jibe at Jaime just served as another reminder that apparently Bran was tossed off a tower to protect the worst kept secret in the Seven Kingdoms. I had no issue with Cersei's revenge; I just would have preferred a more resigned Ellaria than the overwrought version we got. Remember, when you play the game of thrones, well, you know. Hopefully we get some Sandor and Arya next week. Now that's a reunion I'd pay a dollar to see.
10
That could be true, but keep in mind it's been years since Bran was pushed off. Could be that the rumor has just been spreading like crazy the whole time, started by the suspicious fall of Bran.
3
If you'll recall, Stannis sent it by raven to every household he could reach to help shore up his own claim to the throne.
3
I just had a terrible thought.What if the Lord of light is keeping Jon Snow and the others alive for the sole purpose of defeating the nightking.After which they die?..Turn to bones right before our eyes!
3
Honor the vertical, not the horizontal...maybe it's just me, but there's an antidote to the poison, and we didn't actually see Oleanna die...
As far as Melisandra's prediction to Varys - puhleaze, she seems to get more wrong than right...
Euron is no Ramsey Bolton or Joffrey Baratheon...he's cotton candy - fun to watch spinning in the tub but sort of a one note taste that leaves you feeling empty and sticky...
As far as Melisandra's prediction to Varys - puhleaze, she seems to get more wrong than right...
Euron is no Ramsey Bolton or Joffrey Baratheon...he's cotton candy - fun to watch spinning in the tub but sort of a one note taste that leaves you feeling empty and sticky...
8
I thought that too. She asked Jamie if it would be painful and he said no. I think that was her cannily trying narrow down the list of poisons so she could use the antidote. We shall see...
14
Terrific characterization of Euron; right on!
2
Diana Rigg's last line was a classic - what a brilliant actress!
27
My highlight was the surprise attack on Highgarden, and the totally casual conversation that follows with Lady Olene..The Thorned Queen..she says "It's over isn't it?" Jamie just nods his head and says "yes". "How did we do?"...Jamie..meh..."OK I guess"...LOL!!! So the conversation boils down O...how ya going to do it? (Gee, I kinda wonder Jamie!...)LOL! Such a exquisite exit narrative. So Sunset Boulevard....Bravo! Did you see Jamies eyes when she told him that she poisoned Joffery? Wow...his mind just flashing back..Cersie's accusation, and bounty for Tryion's severed head. Jamie helping him escape after he killed father Tywin sitting on the can...
15
It's SPIRIT and image, not SPIT and image...
6
The fact that you believe there is a coherent and definitive etymology for the phrase proves that like Jon Snow, you know nothing.
9
It's "spirit and image" or "splitting image" or "spitting image". Easy to mix these up...
2
It's really derived from "spit and image". One of those biblical things. Like "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree", rather than, "the banana doesn't fall far from the tree".
1
I think the Dragon that buzzed Jon Snow looked pregnant
11
They only lay tiny eggs. Remember season 1?
1
I thought the dragons were all male -- but maybe that's because they are all named after men.
Also (and yes, I am fully cognizant of the ridiculousness of the statement I am about to make), I thought dragon mythology generally has them hatch from eggs, as these three did. I don't think a female dragon would be "pregnant" in the traditional sense ...
Also (and yes, I am fully cognizant of the ridiculousness of the statement I am about to make), I thought dragon mythology generally has them hatch from eggs, as these three did. I don't think a female dragon would be "pregnant" in the traditional sense ...
1
Dragons (as we learned last week from because of the translation scene in episode 2) are neither male or female. Im not sure what that entails with reproduction - maybe they are asexual and can reproduce on their own. I haven't read the books so maybe there is some information in there
2
I'm pretty sure that the moldering books Arch Maester Broadbent has assigned to Samwell will turn out to be quite useful to our rotund antihero.
46
Absolutely and it is the reason Samuel Tarley was created as a character. Book knowledge is worthy and important.
5
That the books, while seemingly moldering copies, are actually vitally important volumes not otherwise available to Sam seems pretty likely. Don't you think the Arch Maester was quietly making forbidden books available? We'll see, but I'm pretty excited by the idea.
If the recapper was deeply interested in the show, these possibilities might spring to his mind.
If the recapper was deeply interested in the show, these possibilities might spring to his mind.
7
I was disappointed he didn't get the first link in his maester chain. Surely curing someone of the "uncurable" disease should qualify for at least one of the healing links?
3
I love the fact that Cersei dispatching her enemies, makes her frisky (lol)
6
Don't you think that Jaime's "no" was intended to echo the "no" of Cersei way back when, which led to us all crying "rape" on her behalf? I think the writers were maybe intending to evoke that parallel.
4
please no more spoilers
1
Sorry but this is a recap article. Really gotta watch the show first, then read about it online, or you will find spoilers no matter what.
9
Was I sickened by Cersei's cruelty? By now, I've grown a fairly thick hide, ardent GoT viewer that I am, when it comes to processing whatever heinous behavior is thrown our way (Ramsay? That took some extra effort). Her viciousness wells up like some oozy, unstoppable substance from a mourning mother's endless grief. That she shared this same tragedy of loss with she who suffered the wreckage of her wrath is a minor point, when considering Cersei's track record for colorful murder in the name of revenge and control. But that coral lipstick, thickly applied with a heavy hand!! Her 1960's Disney Evil Queen/Joan Crawford look was at first a little startling, then amusing, and ultimately a major lightbulb moment for us all.
13
And we know all Disney villains die by falling off of a tall building.........
Not the directing are connection I hoped for. The dialog between Daenerys and Jon Snow seemed weak and poorly written as did the acting and direction of Ellaria Sand. The scene between Milasandre and Varys was over acted. New director?
3
According to imdb, Mark Mylod has directed six GoT episodes since 2015.
1
The writing has been suspect for a few seasons now.
For Better Call Saul fans, Samwell's task with the manuscripts reminds me of Kim doing doc review as punishment.
If Chekhov were writing this, we'd know that Samwell is bound to find something valuable in the manuscripts.
If Chekhov were writing this, we'd know that Samwell is bound to find something valuable in the manuscripts.
18
Horror show!
It seems pretty clear that the Arch-maester has dropped exactly what Sam wanted to see in his lap. Those old scrolls and books will contain information Sam needs.
I thought it was nice that Littlefinger talked about seeing all the possibilities, and then Bran, who can see all the possibilities, magically appears. Hard to out-see the Three Eyed Raven.
I thought it was nice that Littlefinger talked about seeing all the possibilities, and then Bran, who can see all the possibilities, magically appears. Hard to out-see the Three Eyed Raven.
26
I am now convinced that Arya will save the day for everybody. #ninjassasin
12
She going to kill Cersei as promised.
1. Tyrion didn't tell her he neglected to put the "bend the knee" stuff in the message to Jon for fear wouldn't come (Sansa's pleas to him not to go may be prescient). Still, not real impressed by Dany's arrogance and rudeness toward her nephew. First, she disarms him, then won't stop trying to make him "bend the knee."
2. Letting herself get talked out of taking out a chance to firebomb Euron out of the picture is a continuing demonstrating that her military strategy does not bode well for her. If she decides not to go in with Jon full force against the Night Walkers, we may see Euron calling for breakfast in bed with Cersei.
3. Cersei is a truly amazing sadist. At least we got another brief look at that body. Forgive me.
2. Letting herself get talked out of taking out a chance to firebomb Euron out of the picture is a continuing demonstrating that her military strategy does not bode well for her. If she decides not to go in with Jon full force against the Night Walkers, we may see Euron calling for breakfast in bed with Cersei.
3. Cersei is a truly amazing sadist. At least we got another brief look at that body. Forgive me.
9
It's a body double. She is, after the walk of shame, the most famous body double ever. Rebecca Van Cleave.
12
No, friend, I read clearly that parts of the walk were with a body double but that some of the shots were her. So there.
3
Lena Headey acted out the walk of shame with body and face, then another actress's body from neck on down was superimposed, or something something.
2
I spent the entire scene in the Red Keep dungeon wondering why Cersei was wearing such bright pink lipstick, which she has never been known to do. It really distracted me until I understood what was going on...
8
Hey she's single and looking. Has some kids to breed.
1
What does it take to provoke Jaime? I understand not killing the newly-invaluable Euron, despite his baiting, but I can't believe he basically ignored Olenna's admission of guilt and simply left the room instead of throwing her out of a window. It's kind of his thing.
Also, does Euron have both surveillance aircraft and stealth technology? How did he twice know where Daenerys' ships were, once apparently miles from anywhere, and subsequently appear out of thin air?
Also, does Euron have both surveillance aircraft and stealth technology? How did he twice know where Daenerys' ships were, once apparently miles from anywhere, and subsequently appear out of thin air?
11
Euron's got to have a mole in Dany's group. Maybe even Missandei.
He didn't lash out at Olenna because she'd already taken the poison, and he's taken a few (not many, but a few) steps from the "what I do for love" stage of his life.
3
Just a few observations:
Sam's "punishment" copying old rotting scrolls has a silver lining: he has to read them. Seems like another chance for Sam to find a solution. A new ICE strategy?
HADDS? (high altitude Dragon defense system)
Is it too much to hope for another bodice rip from Tyene to try and save her life?
Next week seems to include Brienne back in action.
A dragon glass dagger.
Interesting counterpoint to Dani's new self-exalting airs: Tyrion telling Jon to speak to her commoner followers.
Seems that Sansa has moved beyond lemon tart recipes.
An little bro can only speak in ominous: halting incomprehensible sentence fragments.....
Where's Arya?
How will Cersei react to Tyrion's reprieve, especially delivered by her imp loving brother with no collaborating witness, video or affidavit?
Sam's "punishment" copying old rotting scrolls has a silver lining: he has to read them. Seems like another chance for Sam to find a solution. A new ICE strategy?
HADDS? (high altitude Dragon defense system)
Is it too much to hope for another bodice rip from Tyene to try and save her life?
Next week seems to include Brienne back in action.
A dragon glass dagger.
Interesting counterpoint to Dani's new self-exalting airs: Tyrion telling Jon to speak to her commoner followers.
Seems that Sansa has moved beyond lemon tart recipes.
An little bro can only speak in ominous: halting incomprehensible sentence fragments.....
Where's Arya?
How will Cersei react to Tyrion's reprieve, especially delivered by her imp loving brother with no collaborating witness, video or affidavit?
6
Corroborating
Could Arya have turned back on the road to King's Landing after running into Nymeria and recognizing she needs to be true to herself? If so, could she be appearing as the banker from Braavos? Would love to think Cersei's triumph could be pulled from out from under her in a matter of 2 weeks. And it could be Cersei herself who bankrolls the supplies for the Northern army.
4
Really interesting theory - that would be absolutely amazing if true
2
Samwell's "punishment" to copy and, in turn, to also READ ancient manuscripts is a clever way to promote the smartest student. Trust me. "Copying" is code for "Read all these and memorize them for you are the brightest"
27
I am almost certainly convinced that Dany has a spy in her midst. the only Lannister's smart enough to pull off a move like that are Tyrian and Tywain. And the lack of knowledge from Varys (who knows everything from his birds) of half or more of the Lannister army moving seems very suspicious. Milasandre seems as if she's done at dragon stone which does not leave her as a viable option.
Was that Bronn with the Lannisters? That dynamic will be interesting.
Lastly, I really enjoyed the Sansa/Littlefinger scene. Don't rule him out, I think he's the smartest playing the game and has to have a few tricks up his sleeve. There is a method to his madness so far this season we just don't know yet.
Was that Bronn with the Lannisters? That dynamic will be interesting.
Lastly, I really enjoyed the Sansa/Littlefinger scene. Don't rule him out, I think he's the smartest playing the game and has to have a few tricks up his sleeve. There is a method to his madness so far this season we just don't know yet.
12
It's lined up to be Varys as a spy isn't it? After that scene with Dany questioning his loyalty? And now as you say the Lannisters are a step ahead.
5
Very true but who else would it be. Everyone else except Tyrion have been loyal to Dany for practically the entire show. I also do not belive for a second it would be Tyrion. I mean maybe they just got lucky but both fight scenes in the last two episodes have gone too well for them its suspicious.
5
I also think that Littlefinger is the smartest player in the game. Its interesting to watch him mentoring Sansa.
1
The great ruling families of Westeros are being pruned fast.
So far, Cersie and Jaime are outfoxing Tyrion. I wonder if Dany will lose patience with him.
All the threads are coming together, save one apparently. I don't see how Bran's story will link into the larger narrative.
Until this episode, I kind of wondered why Emilia Clark was cast as Dany - she's too petite and cute to be very regal, I thought. But in the scene where Dany is attempting to assert her right to rule over Jon Snow, it struck me what a beautiful voice and elocution she has, very fitting for a queen.
I think voice training is a stronger element in British theater training than American, and that may be one reason why British actors as so prominent in American productions - Americans love to hear them talk.
So far, Cersie and Jaime are outfoxing Tyrion. I wonder if Dany will lose patience with him.
All the threads are coming together, save one apparently. I don't see how Bran's story will link into the larger narrative.
Until this episode, I kind of wondered why Emilia Clark was cast as Dany - she's too petite and cute to be very regal, I thought. But in the scene where Dany is attempting to assert her right to rule over Jon Snow, it struck me what a beautiful voice and elocution she has, very fitting for a queen.
I think voice training is a stronger element in British theater training than American, and that may be one reason why British actors as so prominent in American productions - Americans love to hear them talk.
5
As much as I have enjoyed Euron's gleeful villainy, it is now approaching the Sand Snakes' level of camp, no mean feat. The bawdy asides to Jamie regarding Cersei, with Cersei within earshot, are just too preposterous, even for someone who has obviously spent far too much time at sea. Ironic, though, given how well the actors playing the gagged Ellaria and Tyene characters vividly portrayed their anguish, fear and desperation, using only their eyes, as Cersei coolly explained to them how she would exact her revenge for Myrcella's murder.
3
The actors, cast, etc., don't seem to really care anymore. The storytelling has become extremely careless (plot holes, "teleportation" etc). The dialogue, instead of being witty and advancing the plot in a concise manner, usually just wastes time. And huge narrative turns (the destruction of the Dornish fleet, the conquest of the Reach) are glossed over with a few pictures of marching troops and more predictably bad dialogue.
The writers just seem bored of the show.
The writers just seem bored of the show.
3
I so agree. The new season is just not gripping enough.
3
I disagree but the show is missing George R. R. Martin's writing and plot setups. They are functioning on the outlines he gave them. I think it might have been better to have him write the show scripts rather than ask him to finish his book.
6
I'm sorry to say but I am disappointed with season 7 so far. Many critics, including some for the NYT, promised that now free from having to follow author Martin's books and scheduled to wrap up the story with a 14-episode tornado (used related to poetry, not weather), this was to be the best season yet. Unfortunately, it is relying more than ever before on contrived plot development to move the story forward. The battle segments in this episode, first at Casterly Rock and then at Highgarden, were rushed to the point that they were boring. Nothing is worse than being boring. The best scenes were the talkiest ones: Dany meets Jon, Varys bids adieu to Melisandre, the throne room scene at the Red Keep, Cercei's comeuppance for Ellaria, and Lady Olenna's last tag gotcha. But even then, their charms lie in their characters playing out their parts, not in any surprises.
8
Spit and image, eh? I learned something new. Thanks Jeremy. I always heard it as spittin' image growing up and I too assumed it was just a g drop like we do with so many verbs. Glad I wasn't one of the ones who corrected you!
2
And you are correct - it always Has been "Spittin' Image".
Just as it has been "Dog Eat Dog " world, Not "Doggy Dog World".
Just as it has been "Dog Eat Dog " world, Not "Doggy Dog World".
1
I really love Game of Thrones, but you do you have to turn your brain off from time to time to thoroughly enjoy it. For example, the invasion of Casterly Rock seems flawed from the get go. Why would Jamie keep the army there, especially because they make up the bulk of their forces for the battles to come? If anything, at the very least, you would expect Jamie and Cersei to rally them around Westeros, where they actually are. Also, the attack on the Yara's fleet should have been a strong signal that team Cersei was already a few steps ahead of them. If only a raven could have made it to Grey Worm's ship before he went ahead with the attack.
3
I think the majority of Jamie's army went to Highgarden.
But good question, why did he keep any of them there and sacrifice them?
But good question, why did he keep any of them there and sacrifice them?
Jaime didn't know about the secret backdoor. The garrison would have sufficed to hold off the Unsullied - they are not the Roman legions.
So Jon got to Dragonstone, Euron got to Casterly Rock, Jamie got to Highgarden, Brann got to Winterfell -- but Arya still hasn't reached Winterfell? What are the odds she's met up with Gendry? Alternately riding and rowing in circles?
8
I've been wondering how Gendry might fit in. Is Mellisandre going to him? I bet you're right.
3
Did anyone else notice as Tyrian, Jon Snow et. al were walking to the castle, the dragon dive bombed Jon immediately after he said "But I'm not a Stark"?
I wonder if dragons can smell Targaryens?
I wonder if dragons can smell Targaryens?
14
This is my second post of the day, which tells me I am spending too much time on this. Having said that:
I was intrigued by someone's comment that Jon is not a Targeryen, maybe a Baratheon. Two things that suggest this might be correct are 1) the plot lines never work out the way we expect--think Ned's beheading and 2) all the Targeryans have white hair and all the Baratheons black hair.
My second thought is about Dany on the Iron Throne. Again, we have been expecting this from the beginning. Can we really be certain about anything in a story that has so many unexpected twists and turns to come to the "expected" ending?
I was intrigued by someone's comment that Jon is not a Targeryen, maybe a Baratheon. Two things that suggest this might be correct are 1) the plot lines never work out the way we expect--think Ned's beheading and 2) all the Targeryans have white hair and all the Baratheons black hair.
My second thought is about Dany on the Iron Throne. Again, we have been expecting this from the beginning. Can we really be certain about anything in a story that has so many unexpected twists and turns to come to the "expected" ending?
6
I fully expect Dany NOT to be on the Iron Throne. It would be nice but it's too expected.
2
If Jon is a Baratheon, why was Leanna Stark afraid of the infant being killed? Robert loved Leanna.
1
Because by the time the baby was born, Robert Baratheon needed the Lannister army and was going to marry Cersei.
The presence of a legitimate heir who would outrank any child born to the marriage between Cersei and Robert would have made the marriage unacceptable to Tywin (who married Cersei to Baratheon to get indirect control of the Iron Throne). Baratheon wouldn't have gotten the help he needed to finish off the Targeyans without the Lannisters. And as much as Robert loved Lyanna -- I think he wanted to be king even more (at least at the time).
The presence of a legitimate heir who would outrank any child born to the marriage between Cersei and Robert would have made the marriage unacceptable to Tywin (who married Cersei to Baratheon to get indirect control of the Iron Throne). Baratheon wouldn't have gotten the help he needed to finish off the Targeyans without the Lannisters. And as much as Robert loved Lyanna -- I think he wanted to be king even more (at least at the time).
1
Wasn't it odd that Daenerys was unguarded during her one to one meeting with Jon Snow? Where was her security? Or was this supposed to be a signal to Jon ( and to us) that she trusts him and will not continue to play hardball. And speaking of surprises, I thought that Jaime would run Lady Olenna through when she confessed to having engineered the death of his son. I guess he didn't like him any more than anyone else did. Still, if Jaime really advised Cersei to allow Lady Olenna a less gruesome death he may truly be evolving. Perhaps the writers are preparing us for a Jaime surprise. Perhaps Daenerys will keep him around. He might prove handy.
4
As far as the first point, he doesn't have any weapons or means of escape, several of her people are within eyesight, and the very protective dragons are flapping around directly overhead. I guess he could have assassinated her but it would have meant his pretty quick death as well and it would have been pretty stupid and left the North without a King in a time of war, and it was a pretty good bet on her part to presume he wouldn't have done that. As far as the second, despite his protestations to the contrary, Jaime to some degree still does hold on to some view of himself as a knight- this has been reawakened with his interactions with Brienne recently. This is why he poured two glasses of wine, in the hopes of making the whole scene "civilized"- the two of them sitting and talking sipping wine while Olenna slipped painlessly away, in his mind. Of course, Olenna was having none of that charade and chugged it like a frat boy during pledge week, called his son a slur, called his sister a disease, then told him the truth about his son's death, and punctured the whole façade of chivalry that Jaime was trying to drape over the whole proceeding. I think this is a key character point for Jaime because he realizes he can't be the kind of man he wants to be and follow Cersei.
5
handy -a great pun!
1
One-handy
2
They producers are going too far in trying to make Euron the next Ramsey Bolton/Joffrey. You can be a power hungry bad guy without all the smarmy mugging and insults. The show is above this kind of cartoony villain.
2
And Ramsay and Joffrey were subtle villainy? Like the pork sausage scene? We already had campy villains; Euron is there to replace the uber-camp villains we've lost. I can criticize this season for a lot of short-comings, but campy villainy has been a constant. At least this villain looks great in tight black leather.
2
I am much more convinced there is a spy in Dany's camp. Jamie and Cersei are smart but there dad was the only one who could have came up with that plan - simple to ingenious. Also the fact that they have destroyed basically all of Dany's army with very few casualties (those that died at Casterly Rock) is just too unbelievable. Where are Varys' little birds when you need them (Im leaning toward him as the spy - Millasandra is too irrelevant at this point and if you even think Tyrion you obviously don't know him at all)? How could they not know half or more of the entire Lannister army traversed the continent? Also was that Bronn on the Lannister side there at the end - glad were finally seeing him excited to see how that plays out.
Lastly, don't count Littlefinger out! I know he has something up his sleeve/some kind of endgame. Hands down I think he's the smartest player and all I keep hearing is his actions are random/odd. I disagree, he has some method to his madness, we just don't know it yet.
Lastly, don't count Littlefinger out! I know he has something up his sleeve/some kind of endgame. Hands down I think he's the smartest player and all I keep hearing is his actions are random/odd. I disagree, he has some method to his madness, we just don't know it yet.
8
Jaime said they needed Highgarden in the first episode of the season, and they added Tarly to their general's table specifically because he's considered the finest living general in the Seven Kingdoms--the only man to beat Robert Baratheon in the field. You don't have to be good at strategy if you're good at getting the good strategists.
1
Did anyone else find it odd that one of the first things Sansa said to Bran is that he is now the Lord of Winterfell? Why would she betray Jon so quickly?
4
I don't think it's a betrayal, just true. Maybe she was trying to get him interested in the world again, his affect is rather detached from everything.
3
True Starks back up other true Starks? That comment was quickly dismissed. Rushed and bad writing to clear up a plot point I think.
2
Because Bran IS the Lord of Winterfell. It's not "betrayal" -- it's the rules of inheritance.
Bran -- as a legitimate son of Ned Stark -- would inherit before a bastard half- brother (let's not forget that everyone except Bran still thinks that Jon Snow is Ned's bastard). I know Jon Snow has been called KITN -- but is he really called the Lord of Winterfell? I think Sansa has the title Lady of Winterfell, at this point.
Bran -- and likely his sisters -- would inherit before even the legitimate children of their father's sister. So even if Jon Snow was born as a result of a valid marriage between Lyanna and his father, the children of his uncle would have a greater claim to the title than he does.
Bran -- as a legitimate son of Ned Stark -- would inherit before a bastard half- brother (let's not forget that everyone except Bran still thinks that Jon Snow is Ned's bastard). I know Jon Snow has been called KITN -- but is he really called the Lord of Winterfell? I think Sansa has the title Lady of Winterfell, at this point.
Bran -- and likely his sisters -- would inherit before even the legitimate children of their father's sister. So even if Jon Snow was born as a result of a valid marriage between Lyanna and his father, the children of his uncle would have a greater claim to the title than he does.
4
Did anyone else find it distracting when Brann, doing his super serious omniscience thing, was joined in the frame by a tree-face straight out of the Wizard of Oz? I think the Tin Man will win the game of thrones.
3
The "Tree Face " as you call it has been there from the beginning & major part of the story. You know nothing
1
"... more democratic way forward as humanity bands together to confront the White Walker threat, standing in for catastrophic climate change or some other Global Crisis to Be Named Later ..."
Above phrase helps explain why GOT-watching liberals might secretly yearn for a strong man tyranny, as postulated in some recent article or other about how watching it is bad for you. Myself I'm in it precisely for the sensation.
Main disappointment is the TV version at this point lacks GRRM's boundless imagination.
TV version at least doesn't suffer from as many clunky genre tropes. After thousands of years couldn't Westerosi come up with a shorter "milk of the poppy" like "morphine" of "heroin"? And why didn't Sam give Jorah any last episode?!
Above phrase helps explain why GOT-watching liberals might secretly yearn for a strong man tyranny, as postulated in some recent article or other about how watching it is bad for you. Myself I'm in it precisely for the sensation.
Main disappointment is the TV version at this point lacks GRRM's boundless imagination.
TV version at least doesn't suffer from as many clunky genre tropes. After thousands of years couldn't Westerosi come up with a shorter "milk of the poppy" like "morphine" of "heroin"? And why didn't Sam give Jorah any last episode?!
2
Maybe Samwell isn't being punished with tedious clerical work. What if those ancient, rotting scrolls are compiled references to the white walkers. Chosen by the master from the restricted area on purpose! Go Samwell.
5
While Samwell Tarly seems to have gotten just another garbage clean-up job, this one might has promise. By copying all those old rotting scrolls, he is just the person who is likely to find all sorts of valuable, forgotten wisdom…just like he found the cure for greyscale and the source for dragon glass in a buried mountain of obsidian under Dragonstone. What will he find in those scrolls??
6
Jaime, the Kingslayer, killer of the Mad King, will become Jaime, the Queenslayer, killer of the Mad Queen (his sis, not Dany!)
9
Agreed! Cersei's prophecy is that her younger brother will kill her. Jamie is 10 seconds younger. It would be too obvious for it to be Tyrion.
2
Predicting that Sam has the flaming sword. The prophecy is probably about more than one person hence the lack of gender in the words. Oh the joy of speculating on GOT.
4
Last week's review Jeremy pointed out the illogical logistic move of going first to Dragonstone, then returning to Dorn, which they passed on the way. He stated that made no sense and was a product of bad, sloppy writing. This week was worse. The current writers would have us believe that Casterly Rock was not built until Tyrion was old enough to design and build the sewers, and apparently after Tywin had built the above ground structure. Excuse me? I don't know exactly where in the books it states this, but I am sure Cersei and Jamie were born (before Tyrion) in Casterly Rock. And, I am sure Casterly Rock had been around long before Tywin became Lord of the castle. Benioff and Weiss really need to start paying attention to story line details.
Another note: I re-watch previous episodes during the week and was reviewing the final episode of last season, where Arya kills Walder Frey. It dawned on me as she pulled off her disguise face that, omg, she had to kill an innocent servant girl in order to get her face. Arya is a ruthless murderer as much as any GOT villain. Gasp! And was it necessary? Walder Frey and his clan would never have recognized Arya, they had no idea what she would look like. But, it made for a dramatic scene and that seems to be the primary factor that the series has become. More emphasis on scenes, less on story.
Another note: I re-watch previous episodes during the week and was reviewing the final episode of last season, where Arya kills Walder Frey. It dawned on me as she pulled off her disguise face that, omg, she had to kill an innocent servant girl in order to get her face. Arya is a ruthless murderer as much as any GOT villain. Gasp! And was it necessary? Walder Frey and his clan would never have recognized Arya, they had no idea what she would look like. But, it made for a dramatic scene and that seems to be the primary factor that the series has become. More emphasis on scenes, less on story.
6
How do you know it was a Frey servant girl face? No evidence that the face she used had anything to do with Freys or, indeed, with Westeros. Could have brought it with her from the House collection.
1
I am crossing my fingers that maybe that poor servant girl was killed by disease, or someone else. It wasn't the safest time, right?
1
I think I remember reading in the books that tywin gave Tyrion the menial task of updating the septic systems. he intended for it to keep Tyrion out of the way, but Tyrion ended up doing an amazing and efficient job. I was surprised such a throwaway detail might have proved to have some significance.
3
Two things I liked from this episode:
1. Tyrion's behind-the-scenes maneuvering after Jon and Dany's first, predictably testy exchange. This is what diplomacy looks like.
2. Jaime's explanation for his steadfast loyalty to Cersei, in effect saying that he is well aware of her defects (power-hungry, manipulative, cruel, etc.), but that ultimately the people will benefit from the peace and prosperity she will bring to the land. Sure, it would be easy to poke holes in this sort or rationale/rationalization, but it was interesting to know that something's motivating the guy's political allegiances beyond mere "brotherly" love.
Two things I didn't get:
1. Why did Varys seem so alarmed by Melisandre's prophecy that he too would die "in this strange land" (presumably meaning Westeros)? She didn't say when. Maybe he'll pass away in King's Landing after living out his days as the Dragon Queen's grand vizier.
2. How was Jaime able to take Highgarden so easily? It seemed like the Lannister armies rolled right over the Tyrell troops like the Nazis taking Poland. If it's because House Tyrell is so weak militarily, then losing them as allies maybe isn't such a huge blow to Team Daenerys after all.
1. Tyrion's behind-the-scenes maneuvering after Jon and Dany's first, predictably testy exchange. This is what diplomacy looks like.
2. Jaime's explanation for his steadfast loyalty to Cersei, in effect saying that he is well aware of her defects (power-hungry, manipulative, cruel, etc.), but that ultimately the people will benefit from the peace and prosperity she will bring to the land. Sure, it would be easy to poke holes in this sort or rationale/rationalization, but it was interesting to know that something's motivating the guy's political allegiances beyond mere "brotherly" love.
Two things I didn't get:
1. Why did Varys seem so alarmed by Melisandre's prophecy that he too would die "in this strange land" (presumably meaning Westeros)? She didn't say when. Maybe he'll pass away in King's Landing after living out his days as the Dragon Queen's grand vizier.
2. How was Jaime able to take Highgarden so easily? It seemed like the Lannister armies rolled right over the Tyrell troops like the Nazis taking Poland. If it's because House Tyrell is so weak militarily, then losing them as allies maybe isn't such a huge blow to Team Daenerys after all.
3
The Tyrell and Martell troops were aboard Yara Greyjoy's ships to besiege King's Landing. Same reason it was so easy for Grey Worm to take Casterly Rock.
1
The Tyrells are good with logistics and supply, not battle field tactics. When Cersei told the the Wall Street guy that she'd pay back Lennister's debt in two weeks, I should've known she had Highgarden in mind....
1
yes the Tyrells are farmers & vintners, not warriors. And much richer than the Lannisters. Remember--The gold being loaded in the wagons?
1
It's odd that Varys--the Spider that knows everything--is so clueless in advising Daenerys. What happened to his transcontinental network of little bird who feed him every single bit of useful information. Euron Greyjoy is many things, but his forte is not stealth and secrets. There is no way that old Varys would not hear about Euron sailing the open seas with his immense fleet, twice and ripping Daenerys and Tyrion's plans to shreds. Did none of the Greyjoy sailors visit the hundreds of houses of ill-repute in Flee Bottom?
Perhaps Melissandre's foreboding prophesy about Varys and her deaths "in this strange land" is not a musing on the fate of useful and disposable foreigners but a statement about his treachery. Time will tell, time will tell...
Perhaps Melissandre's foreboding prophesy about Varys and her deaths "in this strange land" is not a musing on the fate of useful and disposable foreigners but a statement about his treachery. Time will tell, time will tell...
6
My best moment?
The taking of Castlery Rock, only to find it was empty, the soldiers already moved to take the Tyrell holdings.
Lady Olenna went out like a Roman pro, suiciding on demand as the Republic/Empire required. Too bad we gave that up.
And, I wouldn't take too much stock in Melisandre's prediction to Varys.
That lady's been wrong every time.
Cersei.... what a Trump....
The taking of Castlery Rock, only to find it was empty, the soldiers already moved to take the Tyrell holdings.
Lady Olenna went out like a Roman pro, suiciding on demand as the Republic/Empire required. Too bad we gave that up.
And, I wouldn't take too much stock in Melisandre's prediction to Varys.
That lady's been wrong every time.
Cersei.... what a Trump....
3
Seriously? Comparing Cersei and Trump? Trump is not nearly that smart. But they may devote the same effort to haircare.
2
Where is supposed super-spy-chief Varys in all of this? Why didn't he know the location of Euron's fleet, or Jaime's troops? Is he really a mole for Cersei?
7
PREDICTION
the dead will start rising everywhere and the North will be the only ones ready to fight
the dead will start rising everywhere and the North will be the only ones ready to fight
4
Varys is a spy! Why have that whole long scene with him and Dany last episode talking about his loyaly? Guy is totally passing on the attack plans to Cersei. He's going to die for it, as predicted this episode...
7
Why would Varys have switched the babies, whisked Dany and Viserys across the sea, keep them hidden all their lives just to see her go down in flames. All the while risking his own life. To what end. Little finger will be the one do him in.
2
Maybe Varys, Tyrion and Danerys are giving Cersei some planned and easy wins (I just don't think Highgarden's defeat is what it seems), and Varys is actually giving Cersei information to regain her trust and then mislead her big time when it truly counts...
4
Unless Vary is no more and is actually a faceless man.
4
I was glad to see Tyrion get more screen time; meeting up with Jon Snow appears to have, thankfully, brought out his irascible side. I particularly liked his line about Jon Snow making a much more photogenic brooder. Too bad he won't be able to quip his way out of his disastrous military strategy, though Olenna Tyrell shares some of the blame for apparently failing to pass on her knowledge that the Lannister gold mines had been played out, thereby rendering Casterly Rock a worthless target. Surely she should have suggested that it was more important to protect High Garden wealth from a bankrupt Cersei in need of war funds? And it was only in the books, correct, that Cersei's decision to let the High Sparrow reconstitute the Faith Militant was done as an exchange for the Faith's paying off the Crown's debts to the Iron Bank? Finally Jeremy, were you able to expense your drinks at the bar where you watched the episode? :)
4
Man.....don't mess with Cersei. She cannot sentence someone to a quick death for their crimes. She is not cruel. She is sadistic. Her pledge to Euron has no merit. She has no intention of giving him what he wants. Baelish is playing the long game with Sensa. He was not giving her good advice. He wants to overwhelm her in order to weaken her. Bran did not help by bringing up her wedding night. Signs of strain was all over her face. Bran's 'coldness' to their reunion was sad. As the 'new' Hound would say..."she deserves better".
7
There is there is no way Cersei ever gets together with Euron. If somebody else doesn't engineer his demise, Cersei will have his head on a spike (or will otherwise rid King's Landing of his overweening self) -- "in a fortnight."
2
The discussion about the fickleness of the mob surely will guarantee that Euron will betray Cersei and ultimately be walked through a hostile crowd. He expects to become the ruler of Westeros, not just Cersei's ceremonial husband and admiral of her fleet. He'll find out the hard way that she will never willingly relinquish the power that comes with the throne.
1
Bran "I see everything" Stark's unique skill will prove irresistible for Petyr "See every possible outcome" Baelish. He's going to try to exploit, maybe even kidnap, the cripple for his own purposes. That Littlefinger's speech to Sansa was broken up by Bran's arrival is too big a coincidence.
3
Sansa, once she gets past Bran's creepy observation about her wedding, will try to weaponize him?
2
As I watched last evening, I felt for perhaps the first time that Daenerys had completely missplayed the situation - her meeting with Jon Snow showed that her confidence in "dragon diplomacy" may be overreaching. And as we see the events unfold on the other side of the ocean, the Lannisters definitely are, as always, willing to play any card to hold the crown.
23
I just found it comical that a woman who gave birth to three dragons would be skeptical of the existence of frozen zombies.
125
Right, and that resurrection is where Jon draws the line plausibility-wise. You'd think that one would be the most easily proven ("See these scars? Also, ask any of the many witnesses up at Castle Black").
5
I'm not sure that Jon was concerned about plausibility. I'm guessing he was more concerned about what would happen *if* they believed him. Not knowing these people, it makes sense to be wary of Team Dany's reaction to Jon having died and being rejected by a sorceress. (Especially because that same sorceress convinced them to summon Jon, though Team North did not know that.)
3
Was thinking the same thing. There also seems to be a pattern forming. The Lannisters seem to know all her army's plans. Informant in the ranks perhaps.
3
I think Cersei is great. You need a great anti-hero to make the story great. Remember heath ledger as the joker? Without him Dark Knight would have been another bland batman movie. Whatever the configuration in the end it will be Cersei against somebody. When Cersei dies there goes the show. Loved Melisandra's cryptic prophesy but what does it mean? He is already is in a strange land and we all have to die and he could go of natural causes in 30 years.
My favorite line was Jon Snow saying I am not a Stark as a dragon flew overhead to give confirmation. Technically he is a Stark with either Ed Stark as father or Lyanna his mother but to the bigger point that he is a Targaryen!
My favorite line was Jon Snow saying I am not a Stark as a dragon flew overhead to give confirmation. Technically he is a Stark with either Ed Stark as father or Lyanna his mother but to the bigger point that he is a Targaryen!
20
You are right about needing a compelling anti-hero, and the Heath Ledger allusion is apt. However, Euron Greyjoy strikes me as much closer to Ledger's Joker character: an unpredictable avatar of chaos. And, with his rock-star makeover -- buzz cut, tight black-leather outfit, killer boots, and laugh-in-the-face-of-destruction defiant attitude, he is pretty damn hot! Nothing better than a totally hot uber-villain!
1
Is it merely coincidence that Theon Greyjoy and Reince Priebus are both out as respective chiefs of staff at the same time? I say no. Both were weak and didn't pay attention to details. Neither saw the mistake of allowing relatives of the Number One run amok. And there is kind of a physical resemblance.
14
It is coincidence. This episode was filmed long before the Reince thing. (Good riddance to both of them.)
1
I drew another parallel that was totally inappropriate for a family-friendly newspaper. But I'm almost sure it's accurate.
2
Do tell!
1
Correct me if I am wrong but if the Targaryens return to the iron throne, isn't Jon Snow the first in line? How will Dany process that?
15
When the truth comes out, Jon is in a position to use those quotes to claim her allegiance. Might be why the show had her be so punctilious on stating her claim along the blood line.
2
Jon Snow is illegitimate, his Targaryen father was married to another woman when he was born of Lyanna Stark. Dany is legitimate, so her claim through her father would override his. But who follows the rules?
She is his aunt, is older and in command of the larger army so succession would be controversial plus HE DOESNT WANT THE JOB. Plus: dragons.
Remember the old blind Maester at the Wall? He was the Mad King's older brother, wasn't he? Turned down the Iron Throne. So there's precedent.
Remember the old blind Maester at the Wall? He was the Mad King's older brother, wasn't he? Turned down the Iron Throne. So there's precedent.
2
Might some inherent magic fade when those in the north travel south? This might explain Jon's and Davos's inability to properly convey the danger coming from the north. When they need to get it right and secure her dragons and dragon glass, they're almost incoherent, as if they can't actually remember details. They're unable to describe what they'd experienced, the white walkers, the night king, the end of Hardhome, Jon's resurrection. Bran might also be in this category as he seems unable to communicate with his sister.
9
Bran did communicate with Sansa. It freaked her out, so she left before he could finish.
1
That is a really interesting observation. Yeah, Bran's inarticulateness with Sansa was mystifying. Interesting to see how this gets explained and resolved. Good call!
3
I liked that both queens had great speeches, with Cersei's sounding like Shakespeare and Dany's sounding more modern, which I hope means she wins in the end. Also, great ending for Lady T -- I"m glad we didn't see her die.
12
Lady Olenna is the last of the great Avengers!
12
Is it too much to ask that Jon Snow have a business casual outfit without the firs for his trip South?
54
You'd think the man has never been to 5th Ave or Avenue Montaigne!
3
IKR -- the pointy ears of the wolf draped around him were SO distracting!
2
Seriously! He should have been sweating buckets.
1
Shakespeare-like characters, though lacking much flowing "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers" language, brought to the 21st century, Requires 2 viewings and Jeremy Egner's Cliff Notes to understand what's going on. Yet still we watch. Will miss Diana Rigg.
18
I will greatly miss the Queen of Thornes. She was one of the most astute characters, and her insightful, often sarcastic, frequenly cynical comments were delightful. Her final conversation with Jaime was almost like a prophecy. He is now firmly in his sisters clutches, which will not end well for him. I imagine him meeting his death at the hands of Brienne.
64
And the Grande Dame makes her exit in her usual exquisite manor.
1
No, Brienne will b th 1 who kills Cerce (s)…
3
Oooh! Brienne killing Jamie? Sounds terrific, but no, Jamie will be the one to take Cersei down. It will be a murder-suicide.
2
When Cersei kisses Jaime, he says no, but she insists. Shouldn't no mean no even when a man says it?
27
Yes. Also, siblings shouldn't sleep together. Also, all that war, violence, and torture shouldn't happen either.
11
The difference is that there's an easy method to determine if a man means "No."
7
No should still mean no regardless of physical arousal.
1
After moving in largely divergent storylines for 6 seasons, this show is trying to bring it all together in 2. This has led to confused storylines, massive plot holes, and the apparent invention of teleportation. Basically the story just doesn't make any logical sense any more - I just keep watching for some of the acting and visuals.
21
Agreed. As noted elsewhere, there's too much going through the motions. Too much standing around and meetings. The dramatic action is supposed to be rising but all we get are thread bare plot machinations to give the Lannisters the upper hand. Sadly, nothing compares to the figurative noose tightening around Ned Stark's neck the first season.
1
Thought others might find this interesting. From Grammarist:
Spit and image vs. spitting image
Spitting image is the usual modern form of the idiom meaning exact likeness, duplicate, or counterpart. The original phrase was spit and image, inspired by the Biblical God‘s use of spit and mud to create Adam in his image. But spitting image has been far more common than spit and image for over a century.
A few writers still use spit and image, but trying to keep the original idiom alive is probably a lost cause. Though it is older and makes more logical sense, it can also be distracting to readers who have been hearing spitting image their whole lives. Of course, spitting image can be just as distracting to some careful readers.
Spit and image vs. spitting image
Spitting image is the usual modern form of the idiom meaning exact likeness, duplicate, or counterpart. The original phrase was spit and image, inspired by the Biblical God‘s use of spit and mud to create Adam in his image. But spitting image has been far more common than spit and image for over a century.
A few writers still use spit and image, but trying to keep the original idiom alive is probably a lost cause. Though it is older and makes more logical sense, it can also be distracting to readers who have been hearing spitting image their whole lives. Of course, spitting image can be just as distracting to some careful readers.
28
Thank you! I was wondering about that.
1
Just as you suggest, the phrase leapt out at me at first reading and I was planning to do a little research at my first opportunity. You've saved me the trouble and fulfilled my quota of "learning something new every day." Thanks!
4
I thought the phrase is a contraction of " spirit and Image"
2
The "non-Drogon dragons" are Viserion and Rhaegal, and we've known that for a while. You've named their namesakes.
8
I'm very disappointed in this season. There have been so many ridiculous pieces of writing in the last two episodes that it just seems like its written by sadists for masochists. Also, so much obvious twisting of any element to further the writer's goals. Euron's magical invisible fleet that can find a flagship vessel in the middle of an enemy with no warning at all. How one side has no ability to scout ahead and keep an eye on enemy forces while the other knows weeks in advance every action the enemy will take. The magical ability of troops to be moved in the open with no one knowing this. The contrivances done in the writing to further the character goals of the writers is simply too much for me to watch any more.
56
Add to that the miraculous curing of Jorah's greyscale seemingly overnight.
2
If you can get GRRM to write something, be our guest.
You're right about Euron's fleet- it seemed hard to imagine. But keep in mind that seeming 'missteps' in GoT often turn out to have a reason. It may be that the reason the enemy seems to know weeks in advance what's going to happen is because Dany has a spy in her midst. Remember, she just landed- she doesn't have an 'intelligence operation' yet. And the troops at Casterly Rock were clearly moved well in advance- the bad guys at King's Landing certainly knew that Dany and her crew were on the way across the sea.
3
I did enjoy seeing, however briefly, Tyrions secret love nest beneath Castlery Rock as the Unsullied entered the fortress through the "secret" passageway. It reminded me of how boring Tyrions life has become(for we viewers as well as him) since assuming his current responsibilities as Hand of the Queen.
15
I feel like Theon was left alive so he can finally leave this cruel cruel world by grabbing the dragon blaster from Euron's nasty hands. Then, hopefully Cersei and Jamie will be dispatched by a liberated Ellaria or Arya, although the prophecy requires Cersei to be killed by her little brother, which for all we know, could turn out to be Jamie, who was born a minute after her.
9
It will be Jaimie, who is, after all, the Kingslayer.
3
It seemed a little much to have Cersei's forces pull of 4 straight surprises--2 fleets attacked; Tyrell attacked; and the castle largely abandoned. Tyrion went from military genius to idiot too quickly.
I suspect the fifth successful surprise will be one or more dragons being killed.
Jon Snow appeared to be urging forming an alliance with Cersei against the White Walkers. Good luck persuading Cersei to do that.
I suspect the fifth successful surprise will be one or more dragons being killed.
Jon Snow appeared to be urging forming an alliance with Cersei against the White Walkers. Good luck persuading Cersei to do that.
12
Ice Dragon ridden by Night King! Breathing blue flames of ice!
2
I'm not sure the whole 'BIG' crossbow will kill dragon bit should work as well as implied. Sure, hitting a stationary dragon skull is impressive, but Dany's dragons MOVE and move quickly. I don't doubt that one will hit a dragon eventually, but . . . from a realistic standpoint, hitting a moving--flying--target with a siege weapon is pretty difficult. My guess is the Dragons will be impressive 'in the field,' but if/when Dany sends them against the Red Keep, that's when the crossbows will come into play. Mounting them on something solid with a portion that can pivot for aiming would be far easier than making them mobile artillery. And, come to think of it, didn't the Wall have some sort of large crossbow thing to fire at giants?
This was an excellent episode - one of the series' best. What a swan song for Rigg; she breathed all kinds of life into that character with her razor-sharp delivery and presence.
I don't agree about the mob in King's Landing. I think the show is saying something about how masses can be led around by their noses by appealing to their baser nature when they're kept down. Those aren't just "women" being paraded through the streets: they're "the enemy," traitors to the kingdom. The King's Landing mob is more a cypher for the contemporary public opinion swayed by nationalist rhetoric and notions about "enemies."
Also, the King's Landing public - whom Margaery Tyrell tried to help - have been kept down; they're intentionally impoverished and class segregated. That's how Cersei & Co. want it - and we can see why - and that's what Danerys is trying to undo.
My question on Melisandre telling Dany & Friends about Jon's resurrection is: why didn't she do so in that first scene when she meets Dany? Wouldn't she have known it would help? Really, her prophetic skills need some serious honing.
I don't agree about the mob in King's Landing. I think the show is saying something about how masses can be led around by their noses by appealing to their baser nature when they're kept down. Those aren't just "women" being paraded through the streets: they're "the enemy," traitors to the kingdom. The King's Landing mob is more a cypher for the contemporary public opinion swayed by nationalist rhetoric and notions about "enemies."
Also, the King's Landing public - whom Margaery Tyrell tried to help - have been kept down; they're intentionally impoverished and class segregated. That's how Cersei & Co. want it - and we can see why - and that's what Danerys is trying to undo.
My question on Melisandre telling Dany & Friends about Jon's resurrection is: why didn't she do so in that first scene when she meets Dany? Wouldn't she have known it would help? Really, her prophetic skills need some serious honing.
26
One of the best, really? I mean, I love Diana Rigg but ... plot holes and fore-shortening of dramatic development, some plodding scenes. I've been re-watching the series prior to season 7 and I just realized how really good some of the earlier seasons were. "The Climb" in season 3, for instance.
1
Yes, I thought this was one of the best because of the strong acting dyads: Tyrion and Jon; Jon and Dany; Jaime and Olenna (not getting the "but" here - she seizes victory in death with her pointed comments and revelation about killing Joffrey. What's the "but"? A brilliant moment.). I'm also rewatching the first seasons (on season 4) and I still think this was an excellent episode, full of tension and great moments (dragon swoops over Jon) - and even comedy.
The only thing that bothered me was the abbreviated approach to the two battle scenes - but apparently this was intentional, as the showrunners indicate in after the episode.
The only thing that bothered me was the abbreviated approach to the two battle scenes - but apparently this was intentional, as the showrunners indicate in after the episode.
1
I really like that the show makes it clear that Tyrion (and really Daeny and all her other advisors) have not real experience to plan such a complex war (very different than simply attacking one slaver city after another).
Jamie SHOULD be better at this kind of chess-like strategizing, so I am glad this is being acknowledged.
Jamie SHOULD be better at this kind of chess-like strategizing, so I am glad this is being acknowledged.
27
Pretty sure Trump studies Cersei and Daenerys on how to rule...Bend the knee indeed!
5
If only the Democrats had run someone more likeable- like Cersei
19
Can we not do this? It's so nice to get away from real politics and enjoy some fake politics for a little while each week...
24
Why is that when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State her approval ratings were through the roof? A rock-star like popularity, so said the press. Suddenly, when she wants to be president, she becomes this horrible, Lady MacBeth-like monster?
4
What has Sam been asking to do since he got to the Citadel? Get access to the maester-only info. Now he's been given the chance and excuse to pore over the oldest texts they have. It's definitely not a punishment, though certainly will be tedious, to copy them all. Sam has just gotten a reward!
115
I was thinking the same thing.
5
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that one of the scrolls - probably the one he reads at the end of episode 6 - will be hugely important for the end of the war. He would have been given something more mundane, like back to cleaning, if it was supposed to be a pure punishment.
2
It's clear that you fight the White Walkers with knowledge, not just weapons. And Sam has-or will have-the knowledge.
3
I think Tyrion is in cahoots with his siblings, it seems they are always one step ahead of Dany.
I don't think Cersei will marry Euron, will probably have him killed.
I don't think Cersei will marry Euron, will probably have him killed.
7
I think your first is implausible but your second is the only way that will go. She'll probably make what your heart desires a play on the iron islands motto. But their ain't no way Cersei is marrying him and he's a fool for thinking it......it betrays his lack of estimation for women.
1
The only way for Danerys to lose was to split up her forces and fail to provide air support for her navy. Which was Tyrion's master plan.
The Mountain = Will stomp Euron - Yay !
Did anyone notice how much larger he was this episode when standing near Cersei on the Throne ?
Did anyone notice how much larger he was this episode when standing near Cersei on the Throne ?
Now that Jorah's cured, he should be on his way to Dragonstone. If only he had arrived earlier, he would've seen his father's sword that's been given to Jon, and vouched for Jon.
Possible way Jon can pay Dany back: at the end of episode everyone is begging Dany not to ride the dragon. Well Jon has a lot of free time on his hands while being 'guest' on the island. Maybe he will get a chance to ride the dragon and get rid of the Euron problem while dragonglass are being mined?
Possible way Jon can pay Dany back: at the end of episode everyone is begging Dany not to ride the dragon. Well Jon has a lot of free time on his hands while being 'guest' on the island. Maybe he will get a chance to ride the dragon and get rid of the Euron problem while dragonglass are being mined?
10
Wondering about the significance of the color of the Dragon's. If Tyrion is the third dragon, that seems to relate to the gold color.
3
In the books, the dragons are black, white, and green. I thought that was the case here too but maybe I mistook green for gold.
1
I've been thinking about that too; it makes sense to me that Jon would ride the green dragon Rhaegal, named after Rhaegar, his father.
2
This is the second week in a row that Dany's been check mated. While it's good drama for the show, it's not adding up, unless there's a spy in her ranks. The loss of two important Ally's just made Jon Snow more attractive to her and maybe making Dany re thinking the "bend the knee" ask. She was overplaying her hand there. Not smart.
30
The last ruler who insisted that someone bend the knee for them was Stannis, when he tried to get the wildlings to submit to his authority. We all know how that turned out. My guess is that this will be a key difference for Dany, who'll show her wisdom and fitness to rule by accepting Jon Snow as an ally instead of an underling.
7
To the power mad Mother of Dragons, everyone is an underling.
1
Cersei knows far too much of Dany's/Tyrion's plans. I'm guessing a spy in house Targaryan. Varys? Missandei?? Tyrion??? Let's go with Misssandei - most expendable at the moment.
4
If you connect the whole set-up last week (or the week before?) between Varys and Dany, and the Red Witch's comment about coming back to the Seven Kingdoms to die like Varys -- I'd say Varys might be the one who's letting his "little birds" fly to Cersei's ear.
It could also be, I suppose, as simple as Tyrion having learned military strategy from Jamie, so it isn't that hard for Jamie to guess what he's going to do.
It could also be, I suppose, as simple as Tyrion having learned military strategy from Jamie, so it isn't that hard for Jamie to guess what he's going to do.
13
Perhaps "most expendable" but, I think it's Varys, and I think Millsandei knows he's a traitor. Furthermore, when Millsandei informs Varys of their future deaths at Dragonstone, I'm left believing they will both die at one another' hand.
I'm going with Yara as the spy. She tips off Euron about the location of her fleet and the passengers on it, and strangely fails to repel Euron's invaders. She also tells Euron about Dany's plan to attack Casterly Rock, which allows Lannister troops to be sent to Highgarden.
A lot of people don't understand why like Cersei. Sure, she's evil and I know that she eventually has to go, but you must enjoy her while she's here. First off, ninety percent of the things she says belong on a t-shirt. Secondly, she never bores you. I worried about Ellaria Sand and the brutal things that were sure to come her way (raping by the mountain, getting burned alive, usual Cersei stuff) so you could imagine my surprise when she actually opted to do to her daughter exactly what was done to Myrcella. I felt it was poetic justice. Honestly i never liked Ellaria Sand. I think she went too far with murdering Myrcella over anger she felt toward the Lannisters. Anger that in my opinion was not even warranted, since Oberyn volunteered to be Tyrion's champion knowing that it could potentially mean his death. So yes, I felt that Ellaria got what she deserved. Leave it to Cersei of course to chain them up so they can get very close but not touch, so Ellaria won't get to comfort her daughter as she dies. She just gets to watch. I was not at all surprised at her pledge to Euron. It's easy to make promises that you never have to keep. Even if they were to win the war, I am sure Euron would somehow die, whether it be by a squire poisoning his wine or Jaime tripping while his sword is drawn and landing on Euron's face, the lord of the Iron Islands will not make it to the end of this story.
46
To C Davis: I'm guessing that Euron will be ending his days on the business end of the giant crossbow. But who will pull the trigger? Nobody likes this guy. Poetic justice suggests Theon as the trigger man.
2
I truly wonder if Cersei really gave the Sand Snake the kiss of death, or was faking it to mess with Allaria Sand? The latter would be a much more interesting premise, psychologically speaking...
11
I initially had the same thought, but it seems there is too little time left in the series to waste on psychological games in the dungeon. I had thought Bronn might come to save his favorite Sand Snake, but he's off helping Jaime now.
1
That would be really interesting.
And this could work in Cersei's case as well. What if she wasn't killed by "little brother" at the end, that she survived somehow? That she lives out rest of her life in exile miserably wondering "were the prophecies false, that it was really my life-long overreaction to those prophecies that led the deaths of my children?!"
And this could work in Cersei's case as well. What if she wasn't killed by "little brother" at the end, that she survived somehow? That she lives out rest of her life in exile miserably wondering "were the prophecies false, that it was really my life-long overreaction to those prophecies that led the deaths of my children?!"
1
Is anyone tired of Mr Martin's "expect the unexpected and black is really grey and white is even greyer" mantra? We already know that good people die just as often as bad or mediocre people. Same goes for direwolves and horses. I applaud Mr. Martin, GOT writers/producers and assorted creative minds for their disdain of instant gratification and carefully rationed portions of justice, redemption, respect and other admirable stuff. Personally, I wasn't expected anything spectacular from D and J meeting other than pretty costumes, pouting and rehashing of old traditions. For being such a revolutionary ruler, Ms D is letting dead people tell her what to do. One more thing, Bran Stark's story has become too contrived and if it hadn't been for Max Van Sydow's appearance along the way, it would have been fastforward worthy (if you don't watch in real time). Anyway, the winner of Ep #3 was Lady Olenna for telling Cersei (indirectly) that the probability of having psycho kids from incestual sex is pretty high. Quick note to Ms Melisandre, if you see Varys dying, keep it to yourself. You've been wrong before!
2
Martin is not the one who is doing the last two seasons. The story has gone beyond hi books and is being written by the two producers.
3
Martin's own work is nothing spectacular. He created a fascinating world and some good characters, but his plots leave something to be desired. The show has benefited immensely from some of the actors.
2
You do understand that none of this season is based on GRRM's books, right? In fact, large chunks of Season 6 went beyond the books as well. There are only 5 books, and two of them cover the same time period. GRRM is never going to finish the series.
3
Fabulous episode! RIP Queen of Thorns, I will miss her! Diana Riggs made that character, she was PERFECT for the role.
After LF's little pep-talk and advice to Sansa, we next get...Bran, the Three Eyed Raven who actually CAN see everything all the time. LF never imagined his strategy could be so literal for Sansa, LOL! Bran has taken on the heavy load of a god who knows all, but cannot always do much about what he knows. He has become detached emotionally, and who can blame him? He bears an unimaginably heavy burden. Have to mention: Sophie's acting is getting so good! Her face when she sees Bran....from stunned disbelief to pure emotional meltdown, it was just incredible. All in her eyes and face, no words necessary.
The trust and respect between Dany and Jon will leap forward when Dany realized, due to her early and huge losses, she really does need Jon and Co., and she's going to have to give in a bit to him on the whole bending the knee thing. I also think she will take the QoT advice...BE A DRAGON.
Can't WAIT for Arya to arrive at WF! And Bran for sure is going to see the truth about LF in a vision. With the three Starks together and the truth about LF out, I wonder what will happen to him? Arya?
Cersei once again outdoes what any of us could have guessed. I was sure she would kill Tyene in front of Ellaria in some gruesome way (maybe letting the Mountain have his violent way with her), but what she actually did was worse than I imagined. Psychologically torturous.
After LF's little pep-talk and advice to Sansa, we next get...Bran, the Three Eyed Raven who actually CAN see everything all the time. LF never imagined his strategy could be so literal for Sansa, LOL! Bran has taken on the heavy load of a god who knows all, but cannot always do much about what he knows. He has become detached emotionally, and who can blame him? He bears an unimaginably heavy burden. Have to mention: Sophie's acting is getting so good! Her face when she sees Bran....from stunned disbelief to pure emotional meltdown, it was just incredible. All in her eyes and face, no words necessary.
The trust and respect between Dany and Jon will leap forward when Dany realized, due to her early and huge losses, she really does need Jon and Co., and she's going to have to give in a bit to him on the whole bending the knee thing. I also think she will take the QoT advice...BE A DRAGON.
Can't WAIT for Arya to arrive at WF! And Bran for sure is going to see the truth about LF in a vision. With the three Starks together and the truth about LF out, I wonder what will happen to him? Arya?
Cersei once again outdoes what any of us could have guessed. I was sure she would kill Tyene in front of Ellaria in some gruesome way (maybe letting the Mountain have his violent way with her), but what she actually did was worse than I imagined. Psychologically torturous.
15
Euron Greyjoy will take the Iron Throne. Technology wins wars, and Euron has superior technology. His engineers have developed superior weaponry and manufacturing capability. They built an immense flagship and massive fleet within a short time, developed propulsion that enables the fleet to move rapidly across the seas, and developed ship-borne catapults that can send enormous projectiles over vast distances. Euron's engineers have also developed advanced reconnaissance and communications, which give Euron the ability to track enemy ship and troop movement at night (ships to Dorne, and ships to Casterly Rock), and instantaneously communicate those movements to the troops.
And what of the others? They're fighting wars with the same weaponry used 1000 years earlier, and they're communicating with ravens.
And what of the others? They're fighting wars with the same weaponry used 1000 years earlier, and they're communicating with ravens.
12
The Iron throne is on land. Euron can't command an army or attack a landlocked castle.
1
Euron's downfall will be his pride. When it comes down to it, all the hubris in the world won't save you from a good stab in the back.
2
Lol ... He is the Elon Musk of GoT.
1
First, yes, I was pretty sickened by Cersei's cruelty. Tonight, I may have OD'd on GOT violence -- real, potential, relived, physical, emotional, and so forth.
Slowly, we are seeing the kings and queens of Westeros disqualify themselves as rulers to any throne. Cersei is amoral and nuts. Euron, even more so. He can win battles but has shown no inclination to rule, let alone rule well. Jon was out maneuvered at the Battle of the Bastards and should be constantly reminded of this, and that he failed to recognize the extent he alienated a large cohort of the Night's Watch. He walked straight into a trap -- twice. In the short time Dany has been back on Westrosi soil, she unnecessarily lost two of her sisters-in-arms. If not for duex ex drangon, she still would be in Essos sorting out her slave liberation. The number of times she mentions the her dragon-WMD is just setting them up to be take out.
Cersei does not have many pieces to play but she has played them effectively (if not psychotically).
Lastly, what's up with House Dorne and Tyrell? How quickly were they neutered?! These were two formidable houses with lots of family members. If, in fact, the Dorne and Tyrell armies were so weak and feckless, the fact Tyrion orchestrated military alliances with these two potemkin forces makes me question his military senses. And would all those Lannisters have something to say about a foreign army taking the family seat? GOT is getting sloppy. *Sigh*
Slowly, we are seeing the kings and queens of Westeros disqualify themselves as rulers to any throne. Cersei is amoral and nuts. Euron, even more so. He can win battles but has shown no inclination to rule, let alone rule well. Jon was out maneuvered at the Battle of the Bastards and should be constantly reminded of this, and that he failed to recognize the extent he alienated a large cohort of the Night's Watch. He walked straight into a trap -- twice. In the short time Dany has been back on Westrosi soil, she unnecessarily lost two of her sisters-in-arms. If not for duex ex drangon, she still would be in Essos sorting out her slave liberation. The number of times she mentions the her dragon-WMD is just setting them up to be take out.
Cersei does not have many pieces to play but she has played them effectively (if not psychotically).
Lastly, what's up with House Dorne and Tyrell? How quickly were they neutered?! These were two formidable houses with lots of family members. If, in fact, the Dorne and Tyrell armies were so weak and feckless, the fact Tyrion orchestrated military alliances with these two potemkin forces makes me question his military senses. And would all those Lannisters have something to say about a foreign army taking the family seat? GOT is getting sloppy. *Sigh*
5
1. Rooting for Theon's heroic redemption. He's still alive for a reason.
2. Loved that the dragon (possibly the one named for his father) flew over Jon Snow's head as he said "Yes, but I'm not a Stark."
3. Davos - wonderful comedic timing in the humble into of Jon Snow following Dany's extensive CV. Reminded me of the toast Jon shared with Mance Raider to Ygritte and his "brother" who died holding the wall.
4. Wondering if Gentry will reappear from his rowing stint to help force the dragon glass into weapons. Though the last time he was on Dragonstone, they were going to kill him.
5. Littlefinger is the Cheshire Cat.
6. Though Bran seems void of emotion as the Three-eyed Raven, he did express regret for what Sansa had gone through. it seemed a residue of care.
7. RIP Lady Olena. Class act!
2. Loved that the dragon (possibly the one named for his father) flew over Jon Snow's head as he said "Yes, but I'm not a Stark."
3. Davos - wonderful comedic timing in the humble into of Jon Snow following Dany's extensive CV. Reminded me of the toast Jon shared with Mance Raider to Ygritte and his "brother" who died holding the wall.
4. Wondering if Gentry will reappear from his rowing stint to help force the dragon glass into weapons. Though the last time he was on Dragonstone, they were going to kill him.
5. Littlefinger is the Cheshire Cat.
6. Though Bran seems void of emotion as the Three-eyed Raven, he did express regret for what Sansa had gone through. it seemed a residue of care.
7. RIP Lady Olena. Class act!
13
I liked the contrast between Dany trying too hard to sound cool by having the whole list recited versus Jon's simple intro. Heck, Jon had to shoot Davos a look to get that simple one done in the first place. What's even more telling in the recital is that . . . other than having the vision to bring the Dragons back and burning some Dothraki idiots, Dany hasn't really done that much PERSONALLY. A lot has happened in her name, but she's not really an action person. Jon, on the other hand, doesn't rule all that well, but he's definitely the guy to lead a charge.
Any foreshadowing here? Littlefinger advises Sansa to imagine all scenarios and play them out constantly. Then, she's reunited with Bran, the living World Wide Web. I see some Three Eyed Raven interventions coming.
9
From Pam in Houston, commenting below: "We have officially arrived at Fire Ice and the tension between ruling the kingdom and the survival of mankind - the most difficult part being - convincing others this is the choice."
Wow!
Pam just summed up 2017 on Earth. China and Russia vying for the Iron Throne that Trump is giving away (unfortunately, he is missing Cersei's brain). All the while Climate Change is the real enemy.
Just wish we had a Jon Snow and Sansa, mining dragonglass and accumulating supplies for the Long Night!
Wow!
Pam just summed up 2017 on Earth. China and Russia vying for the Iron Throne that Trump is giving away (unfortunately, he is missing Cersei's brain). All the while Climate Change is the real enemy.
Just wish we had a Jon Snow and Sansa, mining dragonglass and accumulating supplies for the Long Night!
7
The transition from the clever, multi-faceted scripts of Martin to the "made for TV" scripts of seasons 6 and 7 are becoming jarring. Having Sensa walking around discussing siege logistics was ridiculous as she has absolutely no experience and credibility in any of these areas of command. Cersie and Daenerys on the other hand have built credibility in their roles over the past seasons. There seems to be far to much emphasis in being politically correct in trying to ensure that the leading contenders are all women. Denerys and Cersie, absolutely, but adding Sensa to the ruling mix just makes the writing seem week and 'made for TV'
15
It made sense to me that Sansa would be knowledgeable. She's obviously been learning from more people than Cersei and Little Finger. She did have a father and brothers to learn from. A high born lady would have to have a wide breath of knowledge in case she needs to rule in her husband's or son's stead, if not for herself.
If you can stand watching shows where all the leaders are men, please don't quibble over seeing women rule for once.
If you can stand watching shows where all the leaders are men, please don't quibble over seeing women rule for once.
2
Nah. Sansa's evolution over the course of the story- in both the books and the TV show- has been fascinating. She starts out a starry-eyed naive girl but slowly learns how the game is played and comes into her own.
2
Disagree
In ancient & medieval times women ran the households and it is not far fetched to see Sansa be provisioning for a possible seige,
In ancient & medieval times women ran the households and it is not far fetched to see Sansa be provisioning for a possible seige,
2
This was a superbly written episode. Kudos to the writers.
5
“Remind me not to cross Cersei.”
It's like we're in the Game of Thrones' best of 7 finals, and Cersei is already 2.5 games ahead (knocking out Dorn, Tyrell, and on the verge of finishing off the Unsullied and Greyjoys).
Not just Cersei, who was every bit as intelligent and persuasive as Tywin in her dealings with the Iron Bank and Euron, but a whole bunch of people, mostly bad guys, appear a lot wiser in this episode:
Jamie outfoxes Tyrion, emulating Rob Stark’s winning strategy, knocking out a second major enemy, the one with most money.
Melisandre avoids Jon Snow’s party, knowing her role and fate (Varys’ as well) in the grand scheme of things.
Sansa anticipates worst case scenario, supervising siege logistics like a seasoned veteran.
Littlefinger invents the multiverse theory.
Agree with others here, honorary mention goes to archmaester: I bet the scrolls he assigned Sam to copy will be really important and beneficial, a reward in disguise.
It's like we're in the Game of Thrones' best of 7 finals, and Cersei is already 2.5 games ahead (knocking out Dorn, Tyrell, and on the verge of finishing off the Unsullied and Greyjoys).
Not just Cersei, who was every bit as intelligent and persuasive as Tywin in her dealings with the Iron Bank and Euron, but a whole bunch of people, mostly bad guys, appear a lot wiser in this episode:
Jamie outfoxes Tyrion, emulating Rob Stark’s winning strategy, knocking out a second major enemy, the one with most money.
Melisandre avoids Jon Snow’s party, knowing her role and fate (Varys’ as well) in the grand scheme of things.
Sansa anticipates worst case scenario, supervising siege logistics like a seasoned veteran.
Littlefinger invents the multiverse theory.
Agree with others here, honorary mention goes to archmaester: I bet the scrolls he assigned Sam to copy will be really important and beneficial, a reward in disguise.
68
For my own part, I have virtually no doubt that Daenerys will end up on the Iron Throne, but that poses its own problems, even if the White Walkers can be stopped. In the first season Daenerys was cursed with infertility by the witch whom she then burned in her own coming-out party. So no matter whom she marries ultimately, she cannot produce an heir. Will she designate an heir before the end of the series?
7
Possibly her nephew John Snow and his descendants?
2
I liked this episode, particularly for all the beautiful castles. We got to see a lot of the architecture, walking around Dragonstone and at the two successful castle conquests. Interesting too to see the great plans of Dany's alliance nearly completely undone by the better plans of the Lannisters. I liked Tyrion's scenes a lot too, he's probably about the wisest advisor left standing.
Folks didn't care for the Bran-Sansa reunion, but I thought it pointed out how alien he'd become. Turning into the three-eyed raven has made him not quite human anymore, like the Oracle of old. Thought it was a bit funny though when he said he'd stick around at the tree awhile longer, as someone is now going to have to go get him when he's done meditating.
I liked Samwell and Jorah's scene too, very touching friendship created amidst all the chaos. Hoping both characters make it to the end.
Jaime and Olenna's scene was great, she managed to salvage a bit of revenge, it showed that Jaime has turned into a pretty good guy, but sabotaged by his love for Cersei, and I thought he made a good point that if Cersei created a peaceful prosperity, she'd be forgiven everything. Not going to work out that way of course.
Ellaria and Yara aren't dead yet, and shouldn't be counted out of the action. I think both will be set free later on, and both are going to be driven by revenge.
Great recap as always too Mr. Egner, thanks!
Folks didn't care for the Bran-Sansa reunion, but I thought it pointed out how alien he'd become. Turning into the three-eyed raven has made him not quite human anymore, like the Oracle of old. Thought it was a bit funny though when he said he'd stick around at the tree awhile longer, as someone is now going to have to go get him when he's done meditating.
I liked Samwell and Jorah's scene too, very touching friendship created amidst all the chaos. Hoping both characters make it to the end.
Jaime and Olenna's scene was great, she managed to salvage a bit of revenge, it showed that Jaime has turned into a pretty good guy, but sabotaged by his love for Cersei, and I thought he made a good point that if Cersei created a peaceful prosperity, she'd be forgiven everything. Not going to work out that way of course.
Ellaria and Yara aren't dead yet, and shouldn't be counted out of the action. I think both will be set free later on, and both are going to be driven by revenge.
Great recap as always too Mr. Egner, thanks!
32
But for mopping up in Dorne, Cersei seems in control of the south with all the food just as Winter has come. I sure was bummed out to see Ser Bronn marching with Jamie against Highgarden and having my hopes that he'd rescue Tyene from the clutches of Cersei dashed. But alas, 'twas not to be.
Tyrion counseled against the use of the dragons and now a vast part of the fleet is gone and the Unsullied are trapped at Casterly Rock and will have to make a Xenophon-like Anabasis, fighting their way back across hundreds of miles of hostile territory, hopefully with the help of Jorah Mormont at least unless he takes a boat.
The dragons could easily have fried the Lannister allies in open country as they marched on Highgarden like they took out the slavers' fleet at Meereen. Cersei seems all knowing but Tyrion/Varys blind to her movements. Now, as Jeremy points out the Dothraki are isolated at Dragonstone, a place seemingly devoid of pasture.
What a depressing reunion between Sansa and Bran. He's wearing the mantle of the Three Eyed Raven like Frodo wore the Ring. I wonder if we'll see Arya next week, and how long will it be until her reunion with The Hound?
I did like this week's episode a lot more than last week's tho that's not saying much. The hour flew by but I'm still feeling a bit rushed. How will Jon, Sam, Jorah, Davos, Grey Worm and Theon pull Dany out, and will Tyrion take a fall for his refusal to use the dragons in setting a trap of his own?
He needs to party more.
Tyrion counseled against the use of the dragons and now a vast part of the fleet is gone and the Unsullied are trapped at Casterly Rock and will have to make a Xenophon-like Anabasis, fighting their way back across hundreds of miles of hostile territory, hopefully with the help of Jorah Mormont at least unless he takes a boat.
The dragons could easily have fried the Lannister allies in open country as they marched on Highgarden like they took out the slavers' fleet at Meereen. Cersei seems all knowing but Tyrion/Varys blind to her movements. Now, as Jeremy points out the Dothraki are isolated at Dragonstone, a place seemingly devoid of pasture.
What a depressing reunion between Sansa and Bran. He's wearing the mantle of the Three Eyed Raven like Frodo wore the Ring. I wonder if we'll see Arya next week, and how long will it be until her reunion with The Hound?
I did like this week's episode a lot more than last week's tho that's not saying much. The hour flew by but I'm still feeling a bit rushed. How will Jon, Sam, Jorah, Davos, Grey Worm and Theon pull Dany out, and will Tyrion take a fall for his refusal to use the dragons in setting a trap of his own?
He needs to party more.
17
I was disappointed in Casterly Rock and Highgarden. The seven capital castles of the Seven Kingdoms always seemed to me to deserve being larger than life. The Red Keep is pretty good, Winterfell’s a bit low and round, the Eyrie is OK, we never got to see Sunspear, Pyke was OK. Casterly Rock and Highgarden seemed switched. Highgarden should be the opulent terraced villa, Casterly Rock the forbidding bastion. They join the show’s Riverrun as disappointments to me. We’ve never seen Storm’s End I think.
7
Agreed. There's a proper place and time for heavy CGI and the construction and portrayal of a fantastical world is one such. These should have been massive towering structures.
5
Not to mention -- where do the hoi polloi live? All of these castles are surrounded by open space. No villages. No roads. King's Landing has a population, but nowhere else seems to have one. Medieval castles and ancient Roman cities couldn't get away from the area's inhabitants. All we ever see are castles in various forms of splendor/disrepair & the occasional visit to the Hot Pie Diner.
Where are the Dothraki hanging out grazing their horses/gods?
Why don't these military/naval people know how to run a campaign? Yara is supposed to be a seasoned naval raider, but she leaves her ships too close together and without lookouts, even though she knows her pirate uncle is gunning for her. The Unsullied are supposed to be great warriors, but they don't know how to run a military campaign. Let's send everyone ashore, storm the castle and leave the ships unprotected.
Highgarden is at war with the Lannisters but sends all of their soldiers.......where? On the unprotected Greyjoy boats? "We've got all the food and wealth, let's just leave it all here with only a skeleton crew to protect it. We're sure no one will think of attacking us, right? Oi, make sure not to have any archers on the walls, fellas. So unnecessary"
You'd think Trump was running this war, it's so poorly planned. And that Cersei is Putin.
Where are the Dothraki hanging out grazing their horses/gods?
Why don't these military/naval people know how to run a campaign? Yara is supposed to be a seasoned naval raider, but she leaves her ships too close together and without lookouts, even though she knows her pirate uncle is gunning for her. The Unsullied are supposed to be great warriors, but they don't know how to run a military campaign. Let's send everyone ashore, storm the castle and leave the ships unprotected.
Highgarden is at war with the Lannisters but sends all of their soldiers.......where? On the unprotected Greyjoy boats? "We've got all the food and wealth, let's just leave it all here with only a skeleton crew to protect it. We're sure no one will think of attacking us, right? Oi, make sure not to have any archers on the walls, fellas. So unnecessary"
You'd think Trump was running this war, it's so poorly planned. And that Cersei is Putin.
9
Tyrion is a poor war campaign planner. Cersei is winning because Dany is following his plans. Dany needs to use the Dragons to save this phase of the war. C'mon Air Power. In modern warfare the Air Power preps the battle field for the ground troops by taking out defenses. Then it supports the ground troops as they fight. Wake up Tyrion. Taking Casterly Rock and sending your allies on one battle Flotilla was dumber than dirt. You should have gathered more intelligence using the Dragons. You would have known Euron had rebuilt his fleet. Also, You need to train some more dragon pilots. Dany listen to Olenna...you are a dragon be the dragon. No mercy for crazy Cersei. You play the Game of Thrones to Win or you Die.
15
But once again the Euron fantasy fleet materialized out of nowhere to destroy yet another asleep at the wheelhouse fleet.
Great episode in many ways but the completely impossible Euron fleet just grates once again.
Great episode in many ways but the completely impossible Euron fleet just grates once again.
7
I entirely agree with your review. Dany needs to listen to Olenna's advice....
3
I know, I thought the idea those iron islanders would have hustled that fast plus added all the embellishments in the short time since Yara stole the ships a little implausible.
1
The Lannister's taking of High Garden was the shows first major narrative error. The fall of Casterly Rock made sense given Tyrion's betrayal... No similar ruse was presented for High Garden. High Garden is a kingdom in its own right, with castles and such. If it were that weak and easy to take, the lannisters would have done it long ago. I hope the show runners don't destroy the whole opus with similar inexplicable shortcuts in other areas. I'm just worried that the next expisode will begin with Jon landing a dragon in Winterfell, telling Sansa, "thank goodness the threat of white walkers is over. Turns out all we needed was the dragon glass I mined between episodes and this here fire breathing dragon that Daenerys leant me. Who knew it would be that easy."
12
But did you notice Randall Tarly riding with Jamie? He was the general of the High Garden armies, and Jamie had swung his allegiance on the promise that he would take over in the south. That's why it fell so easily - most of its defenders were with Tarly.
17
Without defending some of the other plot holes (magical fleet, warp drive sailing vessels, etc.), the ease with which Highgarden fell does make sense if you take into account that Randall Tarly -- the Reach's most experienced military commander -- was with the Lannister forces. That implies that many, if not most, of House Tyrell's bannermen had rebelled against Lady Olenna. Can't win a war if your army is on the other side.
3
The most significant change in this season is that all events are developing at great speed. As an example I remember season 6: How many minutes were spent with the interaction between Brother Ray and The Hound? Why? Yesterday in a few minutes, two fortresses were taken.
We also found that lord Varys will die. Soon? Killed by a dragon?
Good news for "Mycroft" Nestoris: With the gold looted at Highgarden the Lannisters will pay their debts, as always.
As mentioned last week Samwell brother appears again, now riding with the Lannister's army. At some point Lord Tarly will see who inherits his house.
Theon: will he attempt to rescue his sister? It seems that he wiil find some redemption before the end, otherwise there is no reason for him to remain alive.
Poor Euron, Cersei might be planning his death by now.
Will Jorah become Daenerys general? She lacks an experienced soldier to lead her armies.
Why hasn't lord Royce returned to Eyrie?
We also found that lord Varys will die. Soon? Killed by a dragon?
Good news for "Mycroft" Nestoris: With the gold looted at Highgarden the Lannisters will pay their debts, as always.
As mentioned last week Samwell brother appears again, now riding with the Lannister's army. At some point Lord Tarly will see who inherits his house.
Theon: will he attempt to rescue his sister? It seems that he wiil find some redemption before the end, otherwise there is no reason for him to remain alive.
Poor Euron, Cersei might be planning his death by now.
Will Jorah become Daenerys general? She lacks an experienced soldier to lead her armies.
Why hasn't lord Royce returned to Eyrie?
9
Have a feeling studious Sam will find the key to victory in those old scrolls, and his hard-ass father will come around and realize that he's not just studying the writings of "better men".
Also, that giant bow and arrow (borrowed from the Hobbit set) will get at least one of the dragons. Next rider-White Walker king-leading to major duke-out among the dragons. Just saying...
Also, that giant bow and arrow (borrowed from the Hobbit set) will get at least one of the dragons. Next rider-White Walker king-leading to major duke-out among the dragons. Just saying...
6
The other two dragons are Viserion and Rhaegal -- derived from her brothers' names but not actually their names.
Worried about the writing. Too much Cersei hissing, brooders staring out to sea, Euron storyline is ridiculous. What the heck is Littlefinger talking about? Now Bran is too weird, and Sansa is now smarter than anyone else? I love this show, but it's feeling like a parody of itself.
33
"What the heck is Littlefinger talking about?"
"Mindfulness" and "loving kindness" are two of the most popular meditation methods, feels like Littlefinger is preaching the exact opposite of those: thinking about the nearly infinite possible future outcomes, worry about every one of them, think about how in each scenario how the parties involved can be friend or enemy..."
As someone has put it more succinctly, "Littlefinger is a paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac."
"Mindfulness" and "loving kindness" are two of the most popular meditation methods, feels like Littlefinger is preaching the exact opposite of those: thinking about the nearly infinite possible future outcomes, worry about every one of them, think about how in each scenario how the parties involved can be friend or enemy..."
As someone has put it more succinctly, "Littlefinger is a paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac."
7
As soon as they diverged from the books, it grew a little campy. :(
2
I do like that Sansa's character has matured, but I agree that it seems ridiculous that she has become an expert on all matters including winterizing armor for the long winter. However, her judgement can't be trusted outright after being tortured both physically and mentally for most of her teenage life, especially with the biggest schemer of them all whispering in her ear. The only thing she can't understand is Bran, which makes sense, but I am sure she will acquire his powers soon to see everything as well, just as Littlefinger suggested.
BTW, Bran, stay off the drugs. He can see everything, but his delivery has to get better if anyone is going to listen to him. I can see the Kings Landing mob making the journey north just to boo and hiss him and pelt him with cabbage.
BTW, Bran, stay off the drugs. He can see everything, but his delivery has to get better if anyone is going to listen to him. I can see the Kings Landing mob making the journey north just to boo and hiss him and pelt him with cabbage.
2
What struck me as odd is the fact that Danaery's is basically keeping Jon prisoner. If someone comes to parlay, you don't do that- you grant them safe passage. Otherwise no one will ever take your word and offer to negotiate again.
15
She didn't invite him to parley, she invited him to kneel. She assumed that's why he came. It wasn't an offer of negotiation in her mind.
Tracy is correct about the expectations. But remember, Tyrion's actual message rather sabotaged those for both of them.
5
It is better than what her father did to his grandfather. The Mad King requested his presence, then burned him and his heir alive. So . . . keeping Jon as a 'guest' for a little bit is not so bad. It gets him the Dragonglass, after all.
1
Another interesting point is that all the planning/advice of Tyrion has been terrible and Cersei has outmaneuvered Tyrion/Dany at every point since arriving on Dragonstone. He was brooding about his miss of Euron taking the Sand Snakes in the beginning of the episode, but will be miserable when he realizes how badly he predicted the moves of taking Casterly Rock vs Highgarden. Tyrion's stock as Hand has to be at an all time low, as was foreshadowed by Olenna in the last episode ("be a dragon").
I dig what the writing team is doing with the Feminist Narrative in this season. The ladies are killing it and the only time they falter is when they are following the advice of men. They are getting the dudes to do the heavy lifting (Cersei convincing Euron to do what he does best, and softening up Jamie to help her lead her army against Highgarden), and I predict Dany is done listening to her hand when she knows she should be flying dragons and toasting the enemy. Can't wait for the next episode, but I bet there's a lot of wings flapping and fire. :)
I dig what the writing team is doing with the Feminist Narrative in this season. The ladies are killing it and the only time they falter is when they are following the advice of men. They are getting the dudes to do the heavy lifting (Cersei convincing Euron to do what he does best, and softening up Jamie to help her lead her army against Highgarden), and I predict Dany is done listening to her hand when she knows she should be flying dragons and toasting the enemy. Can't wait for the next episode, but I bet there's a lot of wings flapping and fire. :)
10
What Trion said was that she shouldn't murder tens of thousands of civilians. If she goes against that, she becomes the new villain.
. . .agreed on the feminist angle, but based on next preview for next week's episode (the scene on the beach), I would be surprised if Dany asks Jon to be her lead general.
I cannot abide a recapper watching this show in a BAR! You are on notice, Ser.
23
It's a testament to my dedication! It was the only place I could find that was showing the earlier East Coast feed of the show.
40
+1 for your spelling of "ser".
6
I'm surprised that occurred - maybe another perk of being in Canada? According to my local publican here in Chicago, HBO doesn't allow their shows to air in bars
How about that show of power from Daenyrs to Jon when the dragon swooped down on Jon and Davos?
11
Justi as John says I'm not a Stark… That was no coincidence!
The Night King will kill Cersei for sure. Then she will serve as his queen of the dead. It is the only fitting way for her to end. Something that she could not even imagine happening to her. That being said, I think the army of the dead will make it all the way to King's Landing
23
I don't think so. I think Jamie kills Cersai. A fitting way for the King Slayer to end the show.
3
Naw, the same prophecy that said all three of her children would die also said that she would be killed by her younger brother, which could me Jaime or Tyrion.
1
Interesting speculation. Jamie killing her is poetic, they came into the world together, they go out together. Tyrion would be a vengeance angle. Cersei was cruel to him his whole life. But I agree, it will be one or the other.
We have officially arrived at Fire + Ice and the tension between ruling the kingdom and the survival of mankind - the most difficult part being - convincing others this is the choice.
So kids, check your lists for "things you need to save an empire from the undead": Dragon glass (check, we know where it is), Valerian steel swords (who has one?), fire (like say, from dragons), and a really sound plan (no one has one of these yet).
Then look for heroes with strategic smarts and bravery: Jon Snow, Daenyeris, Tyrion, Davos, Aryia, Sansa, Grey Worm, Brianne, even Jaime.
Then add some side players who could step in and help at exactly the right moment: Sam, a direwolf, Sir Jorah now healed, Theon Greyjoy in need of redemption, Sandor Clegane and his new band of brothers, Bran, Varys, Melisandre also in need of redemption... anyone else? how about Bronn?
Then add a few feckless evils who may thwart your good plans: like Cercie or Littlefinger - these are dwindling, but one is in the south and one is in the north.
Stir well. Bake for 10 more episodes.
So kids, check your lists for "things you need to save an empire from the undead": Dragon glass (check, we know where it is), Valerian steel swords (who has one?), fire (like say, from dragons), and a really sound plan (no one has one of these yet).
Then look for heroes with strategic smarts and bravery: Jon Snow, Daenyeris, Tyrion, Davos, Aryia, Sansa, Grey Worm, Brianne, even Jaime.
Then add some side players who could step in and help at exactly the right moment: Sam, a direwolf, Sir Jorah now healed, Theon Greyjoy in need of redemption, Sandor Clegane and his new band of brothers, Bran, Varys, Melisandre also in need of redemption... anyone else? how about Bronn?
Then add a few feckless evils who may thwart your good plans: like Cercie or Littlefinger - these are dwindling, but one is in the south and one is in the north.
Stir well. Bake for 10 more episodes.
22
Samwell has a Valerian steel sword, by the way.
3
Ned Stark's big Valerian sword Ice was broken down into two swords in the season four premiere; one given to Jaime now held by Brienne ("Oathkeeper") and one given to Joffrey now held by Jaime ("Widow's Wail"). Jon has Longclaw from Jeor Mormont. As mentioned above, Sam stole his father's. I'm trying to remember if there are any more that we know about.
I suspect that Bronn, being the practical soul he is, will, the moment he learns about the army of the dead, make plans to relocate to Braavos. ;)
Jon Snow to Daenerys said "we are all children," a perspective that is in Stark contrast to all the other characters and the Game of Thrones itself. Watching the fire between Daenerys and Jon is delicious, and the fact that it had nothing to do with sexual attraction made their first meeting even better. (We should give credit to the writers for not following that sirens song, even if they are both dragons.)
Am I too optimistic in hoping that this story maybe rising to the level of greek tragedy while luring us along with the most base and vile that we can't resist watching?
Am I too optimistic in hoping that this story maybe rising to the level of greek tragedy while luring us along with the most base and vile that we can't resist watching?
12
Greek tragedy had more than its fair share of the base and vile too. Just consider the plot of Oedipus Rex.
2
You know, if GoT was Shakespeare, everyone would die at the end, except those of course who have signed for new GoT developing prequels, sequels and the like. Besides, why would anyone want to sit on that throne - it only seems to cause heartache and vengence. I agee with another poster who said this episode had frequent laughs and thank goodness it did. I guess Euron is the new Ramsey/Joffrey.
11
Tyrion's "I built the sewers" monologue was ridiculous. Did Daenerys and her council actually suffer the retelling in awed silence, or did Tyrion unilaterally send a raven to Grey Worm on his own, changing the war plan?
1
Neither. The first telling was just a "what if". It didnt' really happen. What really happened was them entering the sewers.
3
And he did build the sewers
it's in the books
it's in the books
I like this review but seriously, Mycroft is the name of Mark Gatiss' character in the BBC series Sherlock. Not the character that he plays in GOT which is Tycho Nestoris.
8
Thanks, and I realize that. It was a joke.
72
Apparently, jokes are restricted to posts about Trump, the Village Fool.
3
Apologies, I should've clicked the Mycroft link and realised that for myself. I figured all American's thought that Mark Gatiss was a fella called Mycroft and that he had crossed universes.
4
Error alert: The phrase is 'spitting image' not 'spit and image'. I can have my resume out today if NYT needs proofreaders.
15
Actually The Times uses "spit and image," which I'm told is the traditional version.
39
Nope: http://grammarist.com/usage/spitting-image/. Both are correct and the NYT used the original.
1
The last revision of the Times Style-book was in near-Biblical times.
6
Great Summary. I look forward to these synopses each week now.
Will Jamie return to King's Landing and convince Cersei she really is not a decent person?
Will Lady Olenna come back as a White Walker and kill Cersei?
Will Sansa finally realize that Petyr Baelish is really her best choice in a husband?
If any of these things happen, I may give up on the series.
Having read the books, I didn't realize that the other dragons weren't named in the series. I believe that Viserys in named for another Targaryen, not the 'chucklehead.'
Will Jamie return to King's Landing and convince Cersei she really is not a decent person?
Will Lady Olenna come back as a White Walker and kill Cersei?
Will Sansa finally realize that Petyr Baelish is really her best choice in a husband?
If any of these things happen, I may give up on the series.
Having read the books, I didn't realize that the other dragons weren't named in the series. I believe that Viserys in named for another Targaryen, not the 'chucklehead.'
2
The dragons have always had names in the series. I can't imagine anyone missed that.
Cerise was the "spit and image" of her father? I think you mean "spitting image"?
"Spit and image" is the original term. It morphed into "spitting" later. ☺
1
We've known the other dragons' names for a long time...they are Viserion and Rhaegal.
13
Sam is certainly on a roll finding solutions to things. Don't you think he might find some more useful knowledge while copying those dusty scrolls?
RIP House Tyrell.
RIP House Tyrell.
44
I'd lay odds that the texts he's being asked to copy are all from the library's "special collection".
18
I read a plot summary in other publication that came to the same conclusion. Once I read that, I realized that was likely.
3
It was definitely a "wax on, wax off" moment
2
The more I think about it the more I believe Arya is no longer heading to Winterfell as she thought after seeing "hotpot". Her encounter with Nymeria and their parting when Arya said "you're not her" suggested to me that Arya also realizes she is no longer the young girl who left WinterFell and is now a cold blooded assassin.
She is heading to King's Landing, she is not going home!
To this weeks Episode, Cersei killed Lady Tyrell and is stealing their money to pay the Iron Bank - what an appropriate name for a bank.
I also strongly believe that Jamie will the one to kill Cersei. Overall, she made a big mistake when she allowed the servant to see her in bed with her brother.
Euron, Euron Euron - he is wearing eyeliner and looks a bit leaner but I suspect it's the haircut.
She is heading to King's Landing, she is not going home!
To this weeks Episode, Cersei killed Lady Tyrell and is stealing their money to pay the Iron Bank - what an appropriate name for a bank.
I also strongly believe that Jamie will the one to kill Cersei. Overall, she made a big mistake when she allowed the servant to see her in bed with her brother.
Euron, Euron Euron - he is wearing eyeliner and looks a bit leaner but I suspect it's the haircut.
12
yes, I think Arya is heading to kings landing as well. puts me on high alert watching for any servants that can get close to Cersei - how about the short haired chambermaid that knocked on her door?
1
Is Valyrian steel lethal to the White Walkers? I can't recall....
1
Yes. Recall John Snow striking down the White Walker with Longclaw(awarded to him by Nights Watch Commander Mormont) in the Battle of Hardhome
1
Yes--that, and dragonglass.
In GRRM's telling, the "Wights" that make up the army of the dead are merely dead flesh animated by necromancy. Neither dragon glass nor steel crafted by the Valarians has any special effect on them. Steel (the common kind) and fire will do for them.
The "others", the bluish guys typically riding amongst the walking wights, however, are something.. other. Dragon glass and Valarian steel are anathema to these creatures while common steel will typically freeze and shatter upon contact with them.
The "others", the bluish guys typically riding amongst the walking wights, however, are something.. other. Dragon glass and Valarian steel are anathema to these creatures while common steel will typically freeze and shatter upon contact with them.
1
It's time for Dany to realize that Tyrion is no wartime consigliere. He spread her forces out all over the map to be picked off one at a time like so many low-hanging fruit. She needs someone who has experience in strategy and warfare. If only there was someone there who knows what he's doing . . .
55
Jorah Mormont will be the answer. Tyrion doesn't know what he is doing. Also Vary's the spymaster is failing.
11
Someone like...Ser Jorah?
5
Could Davos and Jorah team up to lead Dany's army and navy? Seems like she's have a lot of good experience with that combo. And they both have something to prove to the nobility of the Seven Kingdoms.
7
I expect to see Jon Snow, a Targryen, on top of a dragon sooner rather than later. Perhaps the one named after his father.
57
The perfect reveal that he is a Targryen would be to have the dragons (or at least his father's namesake) be submissive to him upon their first encounter -- not something they do with just anybody. A big ol' scary dragon purring in Jon Snow's presence? Who IS this guy? BTW, who is left to reveal his bloodline? Seems to me that info will have to come from the Three-Eyed Raven.
And I do hope he lets his hair fly free when he does!
1
I have imagined the exact same scenario! Poor Jon! His reaction will be priceless.
I still find it hard to believe that Varys doesn't know. But he sure doesn't act like he does.
I still find it hard to believe that Varys doesn't know. But he sure doesn't act like he does.
The coming crescendo seems unclimactic. When good vs evil the setbacks of the good is always rewarded by the eventual victory over evil. So, for the return of the Targaryen rule Jon bloodline must be established and our scroll copying friend will probably find it. The secret told into Ned Starks ear was the secret marriage that makes J. Snow a Targaryen.
The White Walkers will be defeated. Jon Targaryen will rule the seven kingdoms as principal monarch and create a parliamentary system of common rule. The question really is: How many entertaining threads of this story can be left for sequels and spinoffs?
Hum, maybe Westeros discovers another vast Kindom to rally a common defense or purpose to unify behind. Much like human history and possibly what need today. Is there anyone out there in outer space?
The White Walkers will be defeated. Jon Targaryen will rule the seven kingdoms as principal monarch and create a parliamentary system of common rule. The question really is: How many entertaining threads of this story can be left for sequels and spinoffs?
Hum, maybe Westeros discovers another vast Kindom to rally a common defense or purpose to unify behind. Much like human history and possibly what need today. Is there anyone out there in outer space?
4
I think it would be a better approach to mine the "back story" for spinoffs, rather than move forward with sequels...
1
Euron's heart's desire. I don't think his heart is the part of his anatomy that desires Cersei. She knows that. I wonder what his heart does desire. She seems to have an idea.
7
Last week we heard Olenna Tyrell brag to Dany how she had listened to clever men her entire life and outlived them because she had ignored them. This week she met her end because she had trusted one (Tyrion) by proxy through Dany. Kind of poetic. So from this episode forward I expect to see Dany stop listening to her advisors, mount her dragons and do it her way. It appears the show's storyline has been trending this way with past two episodes by ending in defeat for her rebellion. Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I relish the thought of seeing her on Drogon's back while all three dragons torch Euron's fleet.
62
She could fly the dragons to Casterly Rock to protect the Unsullied in their long journey back to Dragonstone. But this plan would be thwarted by either Euron intercepting them with the secret air force he built, or by Tyrion suggesting the dragons split up to easily be picked off. Or maybe he will suggest using them just to send messages instead of ravens, establishing a more secure messenger service.
But at least one of her dragons is gonna meet with Cersei's giant arrow. For sure.
"The dragon must have three heads" is a common theme throughout the Daenerys thread in GRRM's telling.
Might Melisandre be off to Volantis to seek out and retrieve the third dragon rider, Aegon Targaryen, true born son of Rhaegar and Elia, Nephew to Daenarys and half-brother to Jon Snow, who (in the books, at least) did not actually...
And as to Cersei's pledge to Euron, That one want's to bed a queen, it would not in the least surprise me if Cersei plans to give him "Queen" Daenerys' crushed corps (once the "war is won") to bed -- before executing him.
After all, A Lannister must always pay her debts.
Might Melisandre be off to Volantis to seek out and retrieve the third dragon rider, Aegon Targaryen, true born son of Rhaegar and Elia, Nephew to Daenarys and half-brother to Jon Snow, who (in the books, at least) did not actually...
And as to Cersei's pledge to Euron, That one want's to bed a queen, it would not in the least surprise me if Cersei plans to give him "Queen" Daenerys' crushed corps (once the "war is won") to bed -- before executing him.
After all, A Lannister must always pay her debts.
5
Euron in here is not the Euron in the books, which . . . hard as it might be to imagine is even creepier. But, presumably Cersei doesn't really believe Euron will make it through the whole war, what with Jaime standing there and all. Or, conversely, one of the things that has been left out of the show that is in the books about Cersei is she was willing to sleep with many men, not just Jaime and Lancel (who looked like Jaime). The Kettleblacks are really creepy guys she gets mixed up with at one point in the books, so . . . maybe she likes creepy guys?
Best moments (1) when Bran and Sansa see each other, and (2) when Lady Olenna tells Jaime that she was responsible for Joffrey's death.
Glad that Jon Snow did not "bend the knee."
Please bring on the White Walkers.
Glad that Jon Snow did not "bend the knee."
Please bring on the White Walkers.
23
Sansa & Bran reunion: Massive buzzkill.
Olenna Tyrell's last scene: Opposite of buzzkill.
Olenna Tyrell's last scene: Opposite of buzzkill.
13
"I thought you were the three eyed raven"
"That's a long story."
NO IT'S NOT: There was a TER; I was his apprentice, then he died, and now I'm the TER. SIMPLE!!!
Also, "yes, Jon, I need to speak to him..."
Not. "Sansa, where's Jon? With Danerys? OMG, that's his aunt. If only we had a working raven based postal service! It would be really helpful if he knew that! If nothing else it would taken uninformed incest of the table. Ok. Well, we'll just wait here by this tree!"
"That's a long story."
NO IT'S NOT: There was a TER; I was his apprentice, then he died, and now I'm the TER. SIMPLE!!!
Also, "yes, Jon, I need to speak to him..."
Not. "Sansa, where's Jon? With Danerys? OMG, that's his aunt. If only we had a working raven based postal service! It would be really helpful if he knew that! If nothing else it would taken uninformed incest of the table. Ok. Well, we'll just wait here by this tree!"
28
Despite HBO's family tree 9which could be a red herring) -- maybe Bran ISN'T concerned about Jon Snow and Dany connecting because he knows Rhaegar is not Jon's father?
While I still think it possible that Robert Baratheon is Jon's father (timeline in the books notwithstanding), I actually had a thought last night that maybe Tywin Lannister is Jon's father. Wasn't he an ally of the Targaryans until it became clear that Baratheon would win the war, at which point he switched sides and married off Cersei to Robert to seal the deal?
A relationship between Jon and Dany would then unite a number of the houses. potentially resolving the "human war" to allow focus on the Night King and his army.
While I still think it possible that Robert Baratheon is Jon's father (timeline in the books notwithstanding), I actually had a thought last night that maybe Tywin Lannister is Jon's father. Wasn't he an ally of the Targaryans until it became clear that Baratheon would win the war, at which point he switched sides and married off Cersei to Robert to seal the deal?
A relationship between Jon and Dany would then unite a number of the houses. potentially resolving the "human war" to allow focus on the Night King and his army.
1
I'm flabbergasted at the terrible planning that goes into Tyrionne's war strategy so far, and let's be sure it is his. Last week no look out for Euron's ships and this week, nobody bothered to send a spy to Casterly Rock to see that its soldiers were emptied out? It's not like it takes a day to march out thousands of troops. A warg sure would've been helpful, calling all Bran, calling all Bran.
It's obvious the producers are having to very quickly wrap up the story and every episode gets more expensive as it goes along so a lot of better plot lines are being sacrificed. One of them said so much in the after show referring to the whole quick battle scene at High Gardens.
It's obvious the producers are having to very quickly wrap up the story and every episode gets more expensive as it goes along so a lot of better plot lines are being sacrificed. One of them said so much in the after show referring to the whole quick battle scene at High Gardens.
4
As a general rule, the deaths of Cersei and Jamie's children continue to drive the plot and emotional responses. Euron's play for power is based on his understanding of Cersei's grief and fury at her daughter's murder, which has just wiped out the House of Dorne. Olenna effectively defeats Jaime at the end of the episode, by letting him know that her own death will be easier than Joffrey's, which she orchestrated. (This means Jaime now knows for sure that Tyrion was not involved and was unfairly prosecuted... I wonder if that will be significant?) The reason this is a general, not a universal, rule is poor Tommen. The Iron Banker expresses condolences to his mother, who brushes them off immediately. Tommen was a sweet kid, but he gets no more respect in death than he got in life.
32
Tommen's death is ignored by Cersei because Cersei caused it.
The Lannisters never value the better Lannisters: Tyrion and Tommen.
Yes, I know that there is a rumor that Tyrion will turn out to be fathered by a Targaryen.
The Lannisters never value the better Lannisters: Tyrion and Tommen.
Yes, I know that there is a rumor that Tyrion will turn out to be fathered by a Targaryen.
3
Tommen was not very smart. I understand he was young...but, still...not very smart!
1
I believe the Mad King is Tyrion's father. If you've read the books, the Mad King was obsessed by Tywin's wife and interestingly Tyrion was born many months after a visit from the Mad King to Casterly Rock. Why else would the dragons not have lunched on Tyrion when he released them from the chains? He's a Targaryen. Although I'm not convinced that that plot line hasn't been sacrificed for the series, but kept in the books. So who knows.
Now that Dany and Jon have met, the girl thinks its only a matter of time before they get together. What, then, are the Westerosi rules on incest, assuming an aunt/nephew dalliance?
According to the GoT Wiki, incest in among the very few things condemned by every major religion in the realm. Even the Wildings agree, and travel beyond their clans to seek mates. Sexual relations with parents, offspring and siblings (this means you, Craster!) are shunned, and the issue of such relationships are are considered "abominations." Jamie Lannister admitted as much when he said Marcella would be stoned in the streets if her true parentage was known.
Like many royals through time, the Targaryens took the practice to extremes, marrying siblings to preserve bloodlines. Dany herself is the product of a brother-sister Targaryen marriage; her relationship with her brother was also sexually charged. As a result, madness runs in the family. Just flip a coin. Let's hope she stays grounded.
Marrying a first cousin, however, is not verboten: witness Tywin Lannister's love match with his first cousin. Jon and Sansa: have at it, you crazy kids.
Dany and Jon's ultimate union, however, would be an avunculate marriage (uncle/niece, aunt/nephew). That raises even higher consanguinity issues, and is taboo in the Seven Kingdoms. First cousins share roughly an eighth of their genetics, while avunculate pairs share a quarter.
Look into the fire, Dany and Jon: iceberg, right ahead.
According to the GoT Wiki, incest in among the very few things condemned by every major religion in the realm. Even the Wildings agree, and travel beyond their clans to seek mates. Sexual relations with parents, offspring and siblings (this means you, Craster!) are shunned, and the issue of such relationships are are considered "abominations." Jamie Lannister admitted as much when he said Marcella would be stoned in the streets if her true parentage was known.
Like many royals through time, the Targaryens took the practice to extremes, marrying siblings to preserve bloodlines. Dany herself is the product of a brother-sister Targaryen marriage; her relationship with her brother was also sexually charged. As a result, madness runs in the family. Just flip a coin. Let's hope she stays grounded.
Marrying a first cousin, however, is not verboten: witness Tywin Lannister's love match with his first cousin. Jon and Sansa: have at it, you crazy kids.
Dany and Jon's ultimate union, however, would be an avunculate marriage (uncle/niece, aunt/nephew). That raises even higher consanguinity issues, and is taboo in the Seven Kingdoms. First cousins share roughly an eighth of their genetics, while avunculate pairs share a quarter.
Look into the fire, Dany and Jon: iceberg, right ahead.
27
Daenerys cannot have another baby; she was cursed with infertility in the first season. Last episode or next to last, if I recall correctly. So it really doesn't matter who she beds down with. The question is, whom will she designate as her heir? See my comment above.
2
How disappointing that key scenes were scripted so woodenly. Bran's affectless cruelty to Sansa in mentioning his voyeurism over her wedding rape was the worst, but Jon's meeting with was Danny was also lame. He can't summon the words to actually describe the terrors of the White Walkers, or even tell her she too should arm her soldiers with dragon glass and oh, by the, burn the dead?
It's also a little hard to believe that after all this war and pillaging --and with the gold mines empty -- the Lannister have a spare secret army to trot out, which no one can see coming. All the military tactics feel incoherent.
In general the whole of Westeros seems entirely too resource-rich for a country that's been mired in war so long -- a generation of whose men would already have perished in Robert's Rebellion -- and whose whole frantic goal now should be storing up food for winter.
Were the early, beautifully written scripts so utterly dependent on Martin? The answer seems to be yes.
It's also a little hard to believe that after all this war and pillaging --and with the gold mines empty -- the Lannister have a spare secret army to trot out, which no one can see coming. All the military tactics feel incoherent.
In general the whole of Westeros seems entirely too resource-rich for a country that's been mired in war so long -- a generation of whose men would already have perished in Robert's Rebellion -- and whose whole frantic goal now should be storing up food for winter.
Were the early, beautifully written scripts so utterly dependent on Martin? The answer seems to be yes.
95
To be fair, they do explain where the army at Highgarden came from - it was the Lannister army stationed at Casterly Rock. Dany's forces didn't think it would move, but it did. They had enough food for the trip by taking everything out of the storehouses at Casterly Rock, which otherwise would have had reserves for a few months, I would imagine. And once they arrive in Highgarden,they are in one of the few remaining rich realms. It all makes sense to me.
3
Bran was neither cruel nor voyeuristic. Those are petty human drives, irrelevant to what he is now.
4
I just don't know why Bran has given up the use of his arms or even facial expressions. He is like a depressed teenager just wanting to hangout in his room and not talk to anyone. However, I would imagine seeing all the backstabbing, killing, and betrayal throughout the realm would be a bummer. I wonder if he will hang around the big tree long enough for it to grow around him. He'll wake up from a long vision and shout out "D'oh!" It will be classic.
A prediction for the final season, once all the sides converge: a white walker dragon. How fearsome would that be on the battlefield?
11
Could a white walker dragon still belch fire?
2
No.
Hey, wasn't it a huge moment when Melisandre referred to Jon and Dany, for the first time, as " Fire and Ice", the title song of the whole series? Talk about big reveals, but we all knew that was coming. I'm feeling more certain those two they will go a capella against the White Walkers.
I love reading these morning after wrap-ups!
I love reading these morning after wrap-ups!
33
I hadn't realized that. Thanks for pointing it out.
1
Yes it was. And she can see how she dies, and how Varys dies?!
I love how Varys was trying to doing his creepy, menacing spider thing, but she had the upper hand throughout the conversation as some who really knows what's going on.
I love how Varys was trying to doing his creepy, menacing spider thing, but she had the upper hand throughout the conversation as some who really knows what's going on.
3
Why didn't Varus' spies and little birds get wind of any of Cersei's battle plans. And how did Euron know where to find his niece's armada?
24
Google Earth.
5
Because his little birds in Westeros belong to faux Maester Qyburn now.
1
I think the dragon flew over Jon as he went up to the castle, not to intimidate, but to say hello.
Also,
What do you call an Air Force that can't provide air support? Dragons
Also,
What do you call an Air Force that can't provide air support? Dragons
7
It's not that there aren't enough dragons. It's that there aren't enough pilots. (Leftover Season Finale!)
And dragons can't apparently attack on their own. They are like cats and otherwise just attack the odd goat and boy. Good things adolescence is over at least.
And dragons can't apparently attack on their own. They are like cats and otherwise just attack the odd goat and boy. Good things adolescence is over at least.
1
I think imagination was the theme this week:
Cersai to Ellaria: I don't sleep much. I lay there imagining ways to murder my daughter's killer.
Littlefinger to Sansa: Imagine every outcome in every kingdom at every moment. That way you'll never be caught by surprise.
Oleanna to Jaime: My downfall was a failure of the imagination (she never imagined how evil Cersai could be).
It seems there are many other characters who have failed (or may ultimately fall) due to a lack of imagination.
Who else fits this theme this week that I'm missing?
Cersai to Ellaria: I don't sleep much. I lay there imagining ways to murder my daughter's killer.
Littlefinger to Sansa: Imagine every outcome in every kingdom at every moment. That way you'll never be caught by surprise.
Oleanna to Jaime: My downfall was a failure of the imagination (she never imagined how evil Cersai could be).
It seems there are many other characters who have failed (or may ultimately fall) due to a lack of imagination.
Who else fits this theme this week that I'm missing?
23
Well, there's the lack of imagination at Dragonstone, where Dany and all of her followers are unable to turn their focus away from Cersei and the Iron Throne.
Mel to Varys, laments the errors in past visions and then suggests a new one for the future.
John Snow imagining for the first time how crazy he must sound to people who do not believe in the Others as he's describing them.
In season 3 (or 4) when Melissandre met Arya, she told Arya "we'll meet again". Arya is back in Westeros. Mel is on Arya's hit list so she may also know who kills her. She seems to have accepted her fate.
4
And arya will sit atop the throne. I thought as much from the second episode of the first series. Just you wait.
3
I hope not. That little spud taking the throne would be a huge letdown...
1
Mel is NOT on her hit list. People assume that, and it's been discussed in forums, but if you go where the REAL fans are, they list only who Arya has actually mentioned, and Mel is not on the list.
2
Not to worry, Moriarty will take care of Cersei.
1
I smell a rat. Euronext magically coming upon Yara and Theon in the middle of the sea. Lannister knowing that Dany would first attack Casterly Rock. It seems improbable but I suspect the one with all the little birds.
37
Yes, that bothered me. 100's of boats, but Euron was able to silently sneak up on HER boat to capture her and the sand snakes. Wow he's good. Eenie Meanie Minie Mo much?
1
I have to admit I missed the fact that Jaime said in this episode that D knew that the Lannister expected her to attack Casterly Rock, so there's no support for my spy theory at least with regard to this move.
I don't think I can keep watching this series in real-time. I'll have to record, read about what happened, then watch with the foreknowledge of whatever tragedy plays out. After last night, I'm half convinced that Cersei is going to win. It's an absolute certainty, at this point, that one or more of Dany's dragons will be killed. I was fearful that the showrunners were going too far in the direction of fan-service after the opening episode with Arya killing all the Freys. Now I fear that the "heroes" are about to be smashed and Dany is going to be humbled, losing all that she has built over years of storyline to a much more ruthless monster. And that's long before the White Walkers come onto the scene! BTW, I would not be surprised if the books and scrolls that the archmaester has asked Sam to copy are books and scrolls about the White Walkers and other subjects of relevance to Sam's quest. The archmaester may actually be rewarding him after all.
11
Re: Sam
Duh!
There are only so many plots in the human condition, Steward Jon Snow.
Duh!
There are only so many plots in the human condition, Steward Jon Snow.
1
Why do you keep calling the Iron Banker Mycroft? The character is Tycho Nestoris. Mark Gattis plays Mycroft is Sherlock
1
The author of the summary explained why he did so above in response to one of the comments.
1
He knows that for God's sake. It's a joke.
5
It's a sad to see Diana Rigg exit the show but at least she got a great good by. I was sure she would rat out Littlefinger for being part of the plan to kill Joffrey
40
While morbid and cruel, Cersei's revenge upon Dellaria could have been much more dramatic. A re-enactment of the original Sandor Clegane/Oberyn's sister mother/daughter rape and kill would have sent the audience into the ozone!
1
No. Cersei explained that.
You're wrong. We would have forgotten that death. This was the most cruel. Most dramatic. And most thrilling.
Just like Jaime explained to Cersei, why torture an old woman? We blew up her entire family, killed her army, and stole all her money. Just let her die (and give a big speech.)
This is what sends the fans into the ozone.
You're wrong. We would have forgotten that death. This was the most cruel. Most dramatic. And most thrilling.
Just like Jaime explained to Cersei, why torture an old woman? We blew up her entire family, killed her army, and stole all her money. Just let her die (and give a big speech.)
This is what sends the fans into the ozone.
2
Yeah, Dellaria's death was almost merciful compared to what I intimated, especially with the Mountain standing at the ready.
1
Ellaria hasn't died, and Cersei's stated intent is to keep her alive for a long, long time... as the body of her daughter Tyene decays in front of her. That's too easy??
2
From my perspective, one of the biggest mysteries of GoT is why the show runners would go to such lengths to keep the identity of Jon Snow's father secret, only to have HBO publish a "family tree" that resolves the question.
I just don't believe that we really know the truth.
I just don't believe that we really know the truth.
One detail worth noting from last night's episode was the role reversal in Jaime and Cersei's sex life. She seduces him and he initially resists (which may be a first: he once forcefully seduced her next to their son's dead body immediately after a funeral). She brashly answers a knock at the door the next morning, exposing their affair to the eyes of a servant, claiming to Jaime that she is the queen and can do whatever she wants and glibly telling the servant that they need clean sheets. All this spells recklessness, not true power. The original sin of the show that set everything in motion occurred when Bran witnessed their secret affair and they tried to kill him. She is now exposing that sin to the world's eyes. Overreaching, with tragic consequences, I predict.
142
Yaaaas Kween
1
It did set everything in motion, but the issue if we can remember past all the succeeding events was not the sibling ickiness of it but the question of the legitimacy of her children as heirs. Deducing that secret was what got the admirable, but naive Ned Stark killed. Now all that is moot, since she grabbed control force of power rather than any just claim to inheritance.
A keen observation that supports my theory that Cersei could be very well be setting herself up to be overthrown by her own people who can abide any type of murder or land grab but draw the line at incest.
Call it what you well.....The shows a slight boring. The stories and the intertwines are not very surprising. The attempt to lead us and pull us in different directions is very weak and was as Daenerys, she is leaning why to much on other peoples advice. She was a the decision maker. Now she is mostly a sounding board. As for Cersi, she is evil. We got it. Jamie is turning into a lackluster boy toy as the kingdom becomes a Ladies Only Club.
3
It's hard for Daenerys to be a sole decision maker on a place she barely knows. People like Tyrion or the Queen of Thorns know Westeros much better. Of course, their problem is they underestimated Cersei, who wasn't Queen for so long for nothing. I think all the action this season is loads of fun.
1
A few thoughts on last night's episode:
1) I think the series is definitely setting Danaerys and Jon to have some sort of romantic connection. When Jon refused to bend the knee, Dany's first reaction was to smile. Later, when they talked alone, it felt like they were starting to feel each other out more
2) I agree with everyone that Cersei is a monster. But when she had her revenge on Ellaria, I, for one, felt it was completely justified. For all her wrongs against others, she had personally never wronged Ellaria. Even Oberon's death was his own fault, even if Ellaria didn't see it that way. And Myrcella was a sweet girl who didn't deserve to die. As a mother, I can completely understand even if I'd never go to Cersei's extremes.
3) How do ships and armies zip around Westeros so fast? It's a very annoying, distracting plot hole, which, I'm sure must drive George RR Martin crazy.
4) What's going to happen to Theon?
5) Farewell to the Queen of Thorns. I don't mind losing the Dornish women so much, but I'll miss her.
6) Sansa is a great ruler. She should rule more.
1) I think the series is definitely setting Danaerys and Jon to have some sort of romantic connection. When Jon refused to bend the knee, Dany's first reaction was to smile. Later, when they talked alone, it felt like they were starting to feel each other out more
2) I agree with everyone that Cersei is a monster. But when she had her revenge on Ellaria, I, for one, felt it was completely justified. For all her wrongs against others, she had personally never wronged Ellaria. Even Oberon's death was his own fault, even if Ellaria didn't see it that way. And Myrcella was a sweet girl who didn't deserve to die. As a mother, I can completely understand even if I'd never go to Cersei's extremes.
3) How do ships and armies zip around Westeros so fast? It's a very annoying, distracting plot hole, which, I'm sure must drive George RR Martin crazy.
4) What's going to happen to Theon?
5) Farewell to the Queen of Thorns. I don't mind losing the Dornish women so much, but I'll miss her.
6) Sansa is a great ruler. She should rule more.
14
I think you are supposed to believe time is passing that they don't show but it doesn't really work. For me the worst time anomaly was how Rickon went from small boy to teenager while Gilly's baby stayed a baby.
I don't really think Martin is that great a writer ( books 4 and 5 were a mess) but he did worry more about trying to keep the times consistent.
I don't really think Martin is that great a writer ( books 4 and 5 were a mess) but he did worry more about trying to keep the times consistent.
3
How is Cersei's hair not six feet long again by now? Unless she's decided that short is her new power hairstyle?
1
I think she has, since the woman who came to her bedroom was copying the look.
Who thinks the decomposing scrolls Sam is copying are about the White Walkers? The archmaester told Sam to meet him in the evening to give himself time to collect the relevant scrolls. This is Sam's true reward.
225
That's exactly what I'm thinking! He's going to find SOMETHING in those scrolls of importance, I just know it!
1
I'm thinking they could turn out to be Jon's origin story and Sam will learn L + R = J
what a dark and oppressive episode! I was almost glad when it was over.
I used to think Jamie Lannister's character was conflicted, now I think he is just whipped. Ew!
I used to think Jamie Lannister's character was conflicted, now I think he is just whipped. Ew!
2
Am I the only one who did not see Sam's task as a punishment? He went from cleaning bedpans and serving soup to copying books, which presumably includes reading them while they are being copied. What do you imagine his Maester may have slipped in the pile?
159
Totally agree! I expected Sam to overjoyed at the new assignment, not vaguely disappointed.
2
I expected him to get the first of his maester links. He cured the uncurable . . . shouldn't that be a healing link?
Jaime will be the one to kill Cersei.
10
Loved the Diana Rigg ending, but didn't much care for Jon and Danaery's interplay....and those White Walkers seem to be taking a roundabout trip to the wall.....
2
I'm with Tyrion on the dragons. Shock and Awe never works as well as every one expects. Especially when you're an exiled leader with no ground game.
What struck me is how ill suited everyone in this episode seems for leadership. Daenarys is all the pomp and circumstance but she hasn't lived in Westeros and hasn't earned authentic loyalty from anyone, other than Tyrion. Why would she expect a "bend the knee" approach to work? Cersei is clearly going mad with power. Her promise to Euron sounds like the kind of thing she used to say to Joffrey, and look how that turned out. And what does she hope to accomplish by making her relationship with Jaimie public? Will Westeros Wall Street really want to back someone with no legitimate claim to the throne? Pure self-sabotage. And it doesn't look like Jon wants to be leader. However suited he may be, in The Game Thrones, where you win or you die, you have to want it. And you have to like it.
Right now my only hope for peace in the seven kingdoms is that Gendry has been hanging out in the same spot of the world where Euron got his pop up armada, and suddenly appears with some kind of natural born king army of scrappy misfits.
Or Arya does the face thing to take over somebody else's army. When it comes to poisoning people as revenge, Cersei seems a relative amateur. And let's keep in mind that what Arya pulled off with the Freys can be used for good.
What struck me is how ill suited everyone in this episode seems for leadership. Daenarys is all the pomp and circumstance but she hasn't lived in Westeros and hasn't earned authentic loyalty from anyone, other than Tyrion. Why would she expect a "bend the knee" approach to work? Cersei is clearly going mad with power. Her promise to Euron sounds like the kind of thing she used to say to Joffrey, and look how that turned out. And what does she hope to accomplish by making her relationship with Jaimie public? Will Westeros Wall Street really want to back someone with no legitimate claim to the throne? Pure self-sabotage. And it doesn't look like Jon wants to be leader. However suited he may be, in The Game Thrones, where you win or you die, you have to want it. And you have to like it.
Right now my only hope for peace in the seven kingdoms is that Gendry has been hanging out in the same spot of the world where Euron got his pop up armada, and suddenly appears with some kind of natural born king army of scrappy misfits.
Or Arya does the face thing to take over somebody else's army. When it comes to poisoning people as revenge, Cersei seems a relative amateur. And let's keep in mind that what Arya pulled off with the Freys can be used for good.
3
we all know Dany well ride again ... Hi ho Drogan ... on Rhaegar, on Viserys ... fire in the hole or on the ships or on the Lannisters' army ...
5 a.m. speculation: Speaking of pending White Walkers, a further complication to the family blood lines: The King of the Dead is, perhaps, the late not so great Mad King. Just a thought that I'm sure that Bran will put to rest with one of his three eyes...
No, the "King of the Dead" aka the Night King is thousands of years old. We saw him created by the Children of the Forest as a weapon against the First Men (the ancestors of the Northerners and Wildlings).
8
This thing is running out of steam. The Sargasians and Parathions and Vilolencians have formed a tired repetitive loop of Zero. Game of Soporific ought to be the title.
By the way, this was the funniest episode in a long time! I laughed out loud at least five times!
15
Was I the only one who heard Jon Snow say "I'm not a Stark" to Tyrion as they first saw the dragons?
13
He's technically not a Stark--he doesn't have claim to the family's name because he is a bastard so he takes the name of the North for bastards, Snow. (Remember Ramsay was Ramsay Snow before he father decided to elevate him to his heir?) That would even be true if Ned were his father. But of course Ned is not his father. His father is Rhaeger Targaryen and his mother is the Stark. But still that makes him a Targaryen and actually, as son of Rhaegar (Danaerys's older brother--first in line for throne), HE is the true heir of the Seven Kingdoms.
14
Except that, unless R&L somehow had a verifiable marriage, he's *still* a bastard and ineligible to inherit even by the male-preference primogeniture that seems to apply throughout Westerosi houses.
1
Dany is his aunt, not his sister.
1
Samwell has begun work on his first scribed tome, Fifty Shades of Greyscale.
148
Brilliant!
1
I'm missing the warg story lines from the books. Jon Snow (and how he and everyone else connects to dragons, wolves, and weirwood trees) makes a lot more sense with it.
5
Jon Snow: “How do I convince people who don’t know me to believe a monster they don’t believe in is coming for us all?” Hopefully he finds the answer. It's the same problem with trying to convince people of climate change. Though even a reasonable request gets shot down by the deniers.
86
No, it is not like climate change. Jon Snow is asking people to believe him on faith. Climate change is about believing evidence.
48
That's true. Though the comparison came to my mind too, many times during this season.
Actually, George RR Martin wrote a lot it with climate change in mind. So you're both right. (google it) Remember he published book one in like 1991 (and assuming it took him 5-6 years to write, LOL), there might not have been much public knowledge of climate change, although it was known then.
3
I hope the producers have the courage to end this series 10 episodes from now with the Night King and his army of dead misfits defeating the living. The living humans are (like people IRL) are so utterly incapable of joining together to confront a common threat, they deserve extinction. The planet will then regenerate in the new GRRM series: Out of the Muck, in which he describes, in excruciating detail, the evolutionary process through which the next civilization evolves.
7
Funny, I've been thinking the same of disparate forces coming together to fight our own wanna be tyrant, DJT. Or, at least I'm hoping that will be the case, but look what happened in the primary -- talk about incapable of coming together to defeat a malevolent force, which they didn't.
But I don't share your hope where the show/books are concerned. We're talking about humans, not dinosaurs and frankly, I wouldn't be interested in a book or series about the interactions between dead people whose sole impulse in life seems to be killing the living -- which if they accomplish that, everyone would be a white walker zzzzz.
But I don't share your hope where the show/books are concerned. We're talking about humans, not dinosaurs and frankly, I wouldn't be interested in a book or series about the interactions between dead people whose sole impulse in life seems to be killing the living -- which if they accomplish that, everyone would be a white walker zzzzz.
6
Well, "All men must die" so maybe you are correct.
2
Ellaria had it coming. Certainly had more cause than Ellaria did, as she pointed out.
I wonder if Bran can warg into a dragon?
I wonder if Bran can warg into a dragon?
34
The bigger question is, can Jon?
OF COURSE Bran can warg into a dragon. That is why Daenerys will marry him.
1
"You will never walk again... You will fly."- The 3 eyed raven.
1
The thing that struck me this week was how the mystical threads of the show finally came face-to-face with the more conventional threads. Both Jon and Bran sounded kind of goofy trying to describe the white walkers, the Night King, and the Three-eyed Raven to people who have not experienced these phenomena. Given how quickly Dany's battle with Cersei is fizzling, I'm starting to think that eventually we'll see Dany and her dragons joining Jon to battle the white walkers. I'm not sure yet how Cersei's downfall will occur, but given this week's foreshadowing, I'm now wondering if it might ultimately come at Jaime's hands.
89
Maggi's prophecy - Cersei thinks the valonqar is Tyrion. But Jaime is younger as well.
1
Jaimie is the "kingslayer". He is the one who killed the Mad King, Daenerys' father.
1
Now that Jaime knows for sure that the Tyrell's killed Joffrey and that Tyrion was innocent of that act, it opens the door for the two brothers to reunite at some point. I could see them teaming up to oppose Cersei's reign in the south should she and Euron Greyjoy go too far.
5
Has anyone considered the possibility that, in the end, the White Walkers may conquer?
89
Possibly, but highly doubtful. The show is not "The Walking Dead." Too much other character development for total loss. As far as Cersei is concerned - despicable - but some of her enemies are worse. Glad she's getting her just revenge on those who murdured her innocent daughter. I think Jon & the dragon Queen will defeat all evil, but Samwell will eventually rule I with his natural children following in succession, in peace & prosperity as a new age of a civilized society is ushered in. The white walkers - representing revenge upon evil mankind will be destroyed along with all of King's Landing & most of the other houses of violence.
30
Sansa Stark may win the Iron throne while Jon Snow remains the King of the North. A just reward for a great family that started out as an underdog in the show.
12
Addendum: assume that White walkers are something like an environmental catastrophe. Created by the Children to protect themselves from First Men, they are uncontrollable. Sound familiar? Global freezing.
1
Dragons are actually called:
- Rhaegal, named after Rhaegar Targaryen,
- Viserion, named after Viserys Targaryen
I'm quite sure she used correct names in series as well.
- Rhaegal, named after Rhaegar Targaryen,
- Viserion, named after Viserys Targaryen
I'm quite sure she used correct names in series as well.
109
We fixed it, thanks.
5
Came down here to mention. Glad you did.
"I believe we got the first confirmation on Sunday that the non-Drogon dragons actually have names."
Not so, in Season 5 Episode 1 she calls out both their names in the imprisoned dragon scene.
Not so, in Season 5 Episode 1 she calls out both their names in the imprisoned dragon scene.
"“Game of Thrones” seems to be about the evolution from a bloody, top-down monarchy-by-force to a more democratic way forward as humanity bands together to confront the White Walker threat, standing in for catastrophic climate change or some other Global Crisis to Be Named Later."
This feels like wishful thinking. What I love about GRRM is how honestly he confronts human weaknesses in the GoT world and how he plays with our modern expectations for mostly linear progress. If the Dark Ages can follow the Roman Empire, anything can still happen in both real life and the 7 Kingdoms
This feels like wishful thinking. What I love about GRRM is how honestly he confronts human weaknesses in the GoT world and how he plays with our modern expectations for mostly linear progress. If the Dark Ages can follow the Roman Empire, anything can still happen in both real life and the 7 Kingdoms
78
Kind of like 2017 coming on the heels of 2016, when we all expected our first female president and were rewarded with Trump. :-(
87
That's actually one of the more popular theories of how this grim, sad tale will end -- unhappily, bloodily, fatally, in darkness.
Swell. "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt," anyone?
Swell. "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt," anyone?
1
So much for alleged "great expectations" .. helps if the alleged "president" involved is more Jon Snow than Littlefinger.
In any case, Jon arrives in Dragonstone and reunites with Tyrion. This is a perfectly lovely scene, and then it gets better. We probably got more Tyrion scenes tonight than we've gotten in...well, a very long time. And it reminds me just how much I love Tyrion and how much more I want of him---even when he's being outsmarted by his siblings.