This is such dangerous ground. I grew up in the greater Boston area where every Irish bar had jars for Northern Ireland Relief. It was an euphemism for the IRA. Given the rules today would every Irish American with republican sympathies be rounded up and tossed into some torture camp? It is this kinda thing that has actually made me and other Irish Americans more tribal- not less.
3
Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are two dark stains that will remain on US honor, integrity, and support for the rule of law for a long, long, time.
7
Why Philadelphia, why not Montgomery, Alabama?
Let us shut down the eyesore known as Guantanamo.
Let us shut down the eyesore known as Guantanamo.
3
i love it when americans throw out superlatives based on what exactly?
holder has scoured the world looking at every legal system and decided, '....my belief in the effectiveness of the world's greatest judicial system and its ability to the keep the american people safe.....'
the proof is the low homicide rate, capital punishment, speedy trials, complete, the low incarceration rate, the politicalization of the scotus the.......?
holder has scoured the world looking at every legal system and decided, '....my belief in the effectiveness of the world's greatest judicial system and its ability to the keep the american people safe.....'
the proof is the low homicide rate, capital punishment, speedy trials, complete, the low incarceration rate, the politicalization of the scotus the.......?
1
I guess Sessions was able to make peace with it since at the end of the day a person of color will go to jail. Nothing warms his cold racist heart more than that.
3
What the NYT leave out is that Spain would not have given him to us to if we sent him to Guantanamo. That sort of accurate reporting would have ruin a pretty good anti-Trump article.
Damache will be tried in the U.S. because the ringmaster of the chaos in Washington wants another distraction to pull public attention away from his myriad failures and transgressions.
The Carnival Barker is saying, "Look over here, folks! Watch us punish the Muslim Monster!
"Never mind the broken-down clown car at the White House, or my beautiful high-wire princess who is choking to death, or the bareback rider who has fallen into a pile of dung. Never mind those cops who have hold of my arm and are patting me down.
"Just look over here: A real, live terrorist! A bad guy! Watch us take him down and show those terrorists they can't mess with the Greatest Show On... uh, The Greatest Nation On Earth!"
Trying a terrorist in the USA is a departure from the administration's stated policy, sure. But the public and — reluctantly — the media are realizing that this administration has *no* policy or promise that cannot be changed in an instant to suit political and PR expediency.
Nothing they ever say can be believed. Nothing. Ever.
The Carnival Barker is saying, "Look over here, folks! Watch us punish the Muslim Monster!
"Never mind the broken-down clown car at the White House, or my beautiful high-wire princess who is choking to death, or the bareback rider who has fallen into a pile of dung. Never mind those cops who have hold of my arm and are patting me down.
"Just look over here: A real, live terrorist! A bad guy! Watch us take him down and show those terrorists they can't mess with the Greatest Show On... uh, The Greatest Nation On Earth!"
Trying a terrorist in the USA is a departure from the administration's stated policy, sure. But the public and — reluctantly — the media are realizing that this administration has *no* policy or promise that cannot be changed in an instant to suit political and PR expediency.
Nothing they ever say can be believed. Nothing. Ever.
1
In typical Obama fashion, he let the cat out of the bag by giving terrorists federal due process rights they do not deserve. In a perfect world terrorists would receive a fair trial at Guantanamo, a conviction, and a single hollow point bullet to the back of the ear. Now the leftwing allies in Europe have jumped on the bandwagon and it is not worth it to reverse course.
''With Mr. Damache’s transfer, Attorney General Jeff Sessions adopted a strategy that he vehemently opposed when it was carried out under President Barack Obama.''
Black man from Kenya bad, white man good.
Black man from Kenya bad, white man good.
3
Jeff Session colluded with Russia during the 2016 campaign. That's about as bad as it gets. Send HIM to Guantanamo. And Con, Jr., too.
2
Yeah, tRump is a feckless liar who probably would like to hold public beheadings, just to" show 'em." I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
2
Trump breaking rhetoric is a constant...
4
Don't worry, the pathological liar, ego maniac demagogue will change his mind tomorrow.
2
Trump and Session lie again. So, what's new?
3
Everything this president says is a lie. Every single thing.
4
Huh...so Obama was right...again.
Gitmo - bad.
Real trials in real courts - good.
Wonder what else Obama got right...hmm...oh right! Healthcare!
Issue by issue its becoming clear...Obama got a whole lot of things right.
And Trumps campaign ramblings are simply that...ramblings.
But his base love 'em. Which in a bowl with milk, is just a bowl with milk in it. Nothing else there, nothing healthy, or helpful...but they'll slurp it up, act like its a NY strip steak and ask for more.
I love the compilation piece of all the lies (which I was the first to suggest last year! Just saying.)...fun reading. But whats missing is all the lies/promises (?) about things like Gitmo and such. Maybe a side-bar. He/they promised to never do X, but here they are doing it.
Gitmo - bad.
Real trials in real courts - good.
Wonder what else Obama got right...hmm...oh right! Healthcare!
Issue by issue its becoming clear...Obama got a whole lot of things right.
And Trumps campaign ramblings are simply that...ramblings.
But his base love 'em. Which in a bowl with milk, is just a bowl with milk in it. Nothing else there, nothing healthy, or helpful...but they'll slurp it up, act like its a NY strip steak and ask for more.
I love the compilation piece of all the lies (which I was the first to suggest last year! Just saying.)...fun reading. But whats missing is all the lies/promises (?) about things like Gitmo and such. Maybe a side-bar. He/they promised to never do X, but here they are doing it.
1
I thought this president wanted to ban terrorists from US soil. Trying ISIS mercenaries here is creating a very dangerous precedent.
2
Just a reminder to all the Obama haters, do you recall how the GOP constantly bashed Obama for NOT closing down Gitmo, how he failed to do that....when reality is actually, they were stopping him from doing so....when actually they like Gitmo, want to keep it open....as, Session makes clear.
2
Why do Western countries allow dual citizenship? ".i.e... Ali Charaf Damache, a dual Algerian and Irish citizen ..." A British friend with two American adult children noted they each had obtained British citizenship and passports in addition to American. "All they had to do was sign a paper pledging to protect the Queen in time of war." So this is what the founding fathers intended?
1
It's nice that the Trump regime is being forced by our allies to take intelligent actions that, left to themselves, they would reject based on a combination of ignorance, ideology and Obama-hatred.
2
He was against trials until he was for them before he's against them again.
2
It was always WRONG to hold and torture prisoners at Guantanamo without charges or the right to a trial.
Obama was always RIGHT. If these persons are accused of crimes against the U.S., they should ALL be brought to the United States, given access to counsel and the right to call witnesses, and put on trial.
THAT is the American way.
Obama was always RIGHT. If these persons are accused of crimes against the U.S., they should ALL be brought to the United States, given access to counsel and the right to call witnesses, and put on trial.
THAT is the American way.
2
Looks like that reps are doing everything EXCEPT hoarding more money (for a select affluent set) like the Obama administration had been doing, which worked OK, not perfect maybe, but worked
1
It's clear the "War on Terrorism" has been lost. 16 plus years of war, over a trillion spent, thousands of dead soldiers, tens of thousands of injured, torture, rendition, human rights abuses, horrible civilian deaths at the hands of US drones and conventional weapons, secret wars and a refugee crisis that threatens to topple liberal democracies across Europe and has lead to destructive nationalism at home.
In retrospect had we treated these attacks as criminal instead of acts of war our nations wealth, well being and the well being of the entire world would have been significantly improved. Not to mention our standing in the world as a country that seeks truth through justice instead of a great military power willing to break everything that resists our will.
We have a great tradition of seeking justice and a terrible tradition of military action post World War 2. This shift can't come fast enough.
In retrospect had we treated these attacks as criminal instead of acts of war our nations wealth, well being and the well being of the entire world would have been significantly improved. Not to mention our standing in the world as a country that seeks truth through justice instead of a great military power willing to break everything that resists our will.
We have a great tradition of seeking justice and a terrible tradition of military action post World War 2. This shift can't come fast enough.
3
Try them in the US but incarcerate them at Gitmo. We cannot have two standards of justice in this country, but if we seed our prisons with terrorists their ideology will take root and grow in the darker corners. The solution is segregation. I use that word precisely because it is freighted with past abuse to remind everyone that this is dangerous territory.
Ideally the Republicans will give up any notion of governing, and since they are bankrupt of both morals and ideas, simply ask themselves, "What would Obama do?", and go ahead and do that. In that way, the country may survive.
All Guantanamo shows is that America is afraid of terrorists even when they are in custody. ow many prisoners have successfully escaped from federal prisons
in the U.S.? This holding and not trying is so Third World.
in the U.S.? This holding and not trying is so Third World.
This is a victory for due process and an expression of trust in American justice. The fear that the process could not properly handle terrorists has gone away. In its place Mr. Sessions has expressed confidence in our courts and in the public.
I think, if memory serves, this is what Obama wanted to do in order to close Gitmo, but the GOP opposed it so vociferously it was dropped. I guess they were against it before they were for it?
2
I wonder if Trump has decided to hold this new terrorist trial on the mainland simply to annoy Sessions? Remember, no move is too petty for our president.
2
The challenge for the Federal Bureau of Prisons will be to keep a convicted English speaking Al Qaeda recruiter from influencing other prisoners. As we know from experience in this country and more so from Europe, prisons are fertile ground for converting and radicalizing angry, disaffected felons who already may hold a grudge against society.
6
One aspect of the article that The New York Times just glazes over, is the fact that Ali, a member of the "religion of peace" was plotting to kill someone because their drew a cartoon. How barbaric.
Times: "America’s closest allies refuse to participate in any effort to bring new prisoners to Guantánamo."
The Times fails to support that vague claim with any evidence.
2017-07-22 14:35:45 UTC
The Times fails to support that vague claim with any evidence.
2017-07-22 14:35:45 UTC
Evil cowards - Terrorists and this administration
1
Early in Obama's first term he tried to close Gitmo and ship the prisoners here. How the Republicans howled! No place was safe enough or far enough away for those foreign prisoners. So now Trump does the same thing only instead of asking he just does it. The Republican Party looks like a collapsing soufflé.
5
So happy to see the Trump administration realizing, at last, that Obama's program in dealing with trials for terrorists, was in fact the best. Just like the ACA appears to have been the best so far in health care. I would be totally happy for Trump to pass the ACA and call it Trump care if that would make him happy. If it ain't broke ........
2
Amateurs. Not experts. Eventually we'll hear a mountain of illusionary facts from white house spin masters. Ethics will remain politically expendable.
Clearly, Trump and Sessions used a political ploy for the presidential campaign to whip up support-- and diminish Obama & Clinton.
But Trump supporters will yawn, a new tweet will distract, and Republican politicians will have no comment.
Clearly, Trump and Sessions used a political ploy for the presidential campaign to whip up support-- and diminish Obama & Clinton.
But Trump supporters will yawn, a new tweet will distract, and Republican politicians will have no comment.
28
He has no ethical/,moral compass....no policy beliefs....the last idea in the room makes policy. No one voted him in as POTUS. When the President isn't running the county, our country is headed down the drain.
12
"No one voted him in as POTUS."? : Better pass that "news" to the authorities in MANY states.
I have a Cuba-related comment. While the U.S. figures out what to do with Guantanamo at the eastern end of Cuba, one way to really get Cuba re-integrated with the U.S. economy and populace would be to foster a Major League Baseball expansion team located in Havana, on the western end of Cuba. There is room (and finance from investors) available for new MLB teams in two Caribbean locations, Havana and Santo Domingo. I'd put Havana in the American League so it doesn't compete directly with the Marlins in Miami, and Santo Domingo in the National League. Everybody loves baseball, let's try to make it happen!
15
Or at least a high level minor league team.
Why is integrating Cuba into our economy a desirable thing for the US?
The kangaroo court at the hellhole of Guantanamo will remain a stain on America's honor and justice system that will prove very, very hard to ever bleach out. The practice of savagely torturing Al Qaeda suspects at Bagram, Abu Gharib, Quantanamo and God knows where else, plus lending them out to the torture chambers of Syria, Egypt and many other countries has disgusted and still disgust decent people around the world. Extorting 'confessions' via vile practices and then parading them before military commissions to obtain convictions that would have been laughed out of any real court is something to be deeply ashamed of. Even the supposely respectable courts threw out every lawsuit by innocent victims of this barbarism on the grounds that it would have forced the governement to reveal classified information. Very convenient. Every trial of suspected terrorists should be held in civilian courts. No exceptions.
21
From the looks of it, America has no honor and our marred history has ample proof of that indifference, when we preach so called democracy and practice it not our selves. Racism and bigotry is ripe as ever just as is no equal justice for all, assurances of domestic tranquility for all, promotion of general welfare of all let alone any real blessings of security and posterity for all. Our Senate with with two each Senators irrespective of the population of the 50 states, is hardly democratic, or equal representation , just as is the Congressional Districts, that are gerrymandered every two years, by the rotten to the core two party system. How can be have any honor with the con man, fraud, a megalomaniac , compulsive- obsessive, loud-mouth , lout , a real estate mafioso, man of the lie in the WH.
2
I did not hear this from you right after 9/11 Professor!
It's really strange that the administration that has little respect for the rule of law has suddenly turned so law abiding as to have begun favouring trial of the terror suspects in the US' civil courts, and not in the Guantánamo Bay prison as earlier. More astonishing is the back off by the Attorney General Jeff Sessions from his earlier position who himself is facing trying times under the Trump administration.
14
It comes to prove that Trump and his cohorts words mean nothing. The entire political theater to send those accused of terrorism to Guantanamo was just that - a theater for political expediency. What else was Trump against that he now favors? I wouldn't be surprised if Trump falls in love with Obamacare, only if it could be nicknamed Trumpcare. What a farce!
25
Our problem is that we last officially declared war in 1941, but we have been waging war every since 1950. Once we have declared war officially, whether on another nation-state or a de facto nation-state, they become an enemy whose combatants become fair game to capture or kill. Those who operate as miltiaty personnel out of uniform, or who assist them as spies, can be shot under military rather than civiliian rules.
8
Under Trump and Sessions, our Justice Department has all the discipline and coordination a kindergarten recess. Appropriate. Trump acts like a 5-year-old, Sessions looks like one.
12
"America's closest allies refuse to participate in any effort to bring new prisoners to Guantanamo. They have come to regard the prison there as a legal morass and a symbol of American abuse and mistreatment."
The continuing existence of Guantanamo Bay prison is "the gift that keeps on giving" to our foes and precludes us from taking the moral high ground with our allies.
The continuing existence of Guantanamo Bay prison is "the gift that keeps on giving" to our foes and precludes us from taking the moral high ground with our allies.
14
To say nothing about the $3 million per prisoner per year price tag.
Good first step. Now get the base out of Cuba. Fuera de Caimanera!
1
When you begin to attempt applying logic to this particular turn of events, remember people, this is the era of the alternative fact and we have, very recently, been promised by this new WH media guy from Sachs Long Island that he will unshackle a president who is unfettered.
Soooo, I will be, heretofore, tossing out the last vestiges of what might be considered logic when thinking about our pitifully battered government, because who knows what unshackling the unfettered would even look like? Probably like what it has been for the past 6 months.
Anyway, I don't care. The existence of Guantanamo Bay Prison, the torment and right to torture indulged there made my blood run cold. It is a shameful scar on our country. Who cares if Trump unwittingly (and how else could he accomplish anything of value?) fulfills Obama's campaign promise of 10 years ago? It is, at least, less suffering and engages justice. Perhaps it will lead to the closure of this monstrosity and the release of people who are possibly innocent.
Perhaps the GOP have been tricked into doing something that approaches just and humane behavior?
Or, maybe this is a new strategy for making themselves look good? Maybe that's how unshackling the unfettered might seem or even work. Maybe it's reverse hypocrisy or double hypocrisy that magically moves the abominable into the realm of the beneficial?
Just watch. Trump will boast about bringing terrorists to justice and people will say, "What a Guy!"
Soooo, I will be, heretofore, tossing out the last vestiges of what might be considered logic when thinking about our pitifully battered government, because who knows what unshackling the unfettered would even look like? Probably like what it has been for the past 6 months.
Anyway, I don't care. The existence of Guantanamo Bay Prison, the torment and right to torture indulged there made my blood run cold. It is a shameful scar on our country. Who cares if Trump unwittingly (and how else could he accomplish anything of value?) fulfills Obama's campaign promise of 10 years ago? It is, at least, less suffering and engages justice. Perhaps it will lead to the closure of this monstrosity and the release of people who are possibly innocent.
Perhaps the GOP have been tricked into doing something that approaches just and humane behavior?
Or, maybe this is a new strategy for making themselves look good? Maybe that's how unshackling the unfettered might seem or even work. Maybe it's reverse hypocrisy or double hypocrisy that magically moves the abominable into the realm of the beneficial?
Just watch. Trump will boast about bringing terrorists to justice and people will say, "What a Guy!"
16
Republican Hypocrisy always in action;the loud criticisms by trump, feckless&racist sessions&the blockade of the republican congress long attacked President Obama for not sending suspected terrorist to Guantanamo but have them in federal civil court where cases were won;former&better AG Holder took the high road&said good to see pres&AG now share his belief in the effectiveness of our great judicial system&its ability to keep Americans safe. For once,Sessions said nothing&no one took the bother to explain the meaning of all this to djt;So 8 years of republican insulting and obstructing a great president results in silence from the obstructionist and insultors. Republicans too busy destroying Obamacare, a plan that added millions to insurance&reeled in greedy ins. firms;GOP will undo Obama's good work because they can't get past their hate and lies and distortions of the ACA that they never read.
5
I'd really like to know who made this decision if Sessions was against it. It is about time that we respected our criminal justice system. As flawed as it is, it is far more justice and likely to reach a conclusion than Guantanamo. Clearly, the POTUS doesn't understand the issues and certainly doesn't respect the rule of law. So who made this happen?
6
"who made this happen?"
My guess is that it was Spain, as a condition to extradite him.
My guess is that it was Spain, as a condition to extradite him.
8
For eight years, Republicans stood for NOTHING except opposition to Obama. This disgusting hypocrisy further proves their moral bankruptcy.
Sessions' rough week was a preview for what's left of the rest of his career. With Corretta Scott King's letter, Elizabeth Warren reminded us that Sessions rose to power from ignominy. Well, to ignominy he shall return.
Sessions' rough week was a preview for what's left of the rest of his career. With Corretta Scott King's letter, Elizabeth Warren reminded us that Sessions rose to power from ignominy. Well, to ignominy he shall return.
16
Trying terrorists in Court brings information to the public. Burying these cases in Gitmo and trying prisoners in secret isn't the right way to handle the situation. It also seems to be a faster less expensive way to process these cases.
8
I remember when this issue was a hot topic several years ago during the Obama administration. The evidence STRONGLY supported using federal courts: Terrorists were brought to trial much more quickly in federal courts. The conviction rate in federal courts was higher.
But brainless, ever macho Republicans - including Sessions - opposed the obviously superior federal courts. As the article says, they did this because it “looked” like we were being tougher on terrorists in military court. It looked that way to the voters, that is.
But brainless, ever macho Republicans - including Sessions - opposed the obviously superior federal courts. As the article says, they did this because it “looked” like we were being tougher on terrorists in military court. It looked that way to the voters, that is.
5
"They have come to regard the prison there as a legal morass and a symbol of American abuse and mistreatment."
Not correct. Guantanamo is seen as a *centre* of American abuse and mistreatment, not a symbol.
Not correct. Guantanamo is seen as a *centre* of American abuse and mistreatment, not a symbol.
7
The time is well past when Guantanamo should be handed over to the Cubans. It is their territory and they deserve to exercise sovereignty over this stretch of their land. Besides American presence in Guantanamo is a disgrace and an affront to every aspect of human existence. GET OUT OF CUBA!!!!!
5
Get out of Cuba and leave the island solely to the tender mercies of Raul and his communist cohorts? History would judge the US very harshly indeed for deserting Cubans in their time of need.
1
Mr. Sessions is acting like an attorney general instead of a political hack?
My goodness will wonders never cease.
My goodness will wonders never cease.
10
It is disgraceful that Guantanamo is still in operation. I attribute this to Obama's indolence or, worst case, political cowardice. In any event an unforgivable failure of leadership on his part.
8
Guantanamo was not closed, Snobo, because the Republican Congress passed veto-proof legislation keeping it open. Pushing hard to blame Obama for all of Trump's incompetence, you will note that Obama respected the cornerstone of our Constitution, the separation of powers.
The moral garbage you, Trump, Sessions qualify for don't even understand why we have that separation, and why people like Barack Obama, who love and honor this country, won't violate these principles.
Of course, Trump, Sessions, you and a large number of right wing, un, "people", hate Obama for that.
The moral garbage you, Trump, Sessions qualify for don't even understand why we have that separation, and why people like Barack Obama, who love and honor this country, won't violate these principles.
Of course, Trump, Sessions, you and a large number of right wing, un, "people", hate Obama for that.
15
The only way Obama could have closed Guantanamo is to have paid for it out of his pocket. This because the Republicans refused to provide the funding for each and every proposal to do so. While indolence and cowardice are indicative of deficits in character they don't approach that of willful ignorance.
3
Since Congress passed legislation expressly forbidding the expenditure of any funds to actually close Guantanamo, you might want to direct your ire to Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.
Or do those facts not comport with your reality?
We miss you President Obama.
Or do those facts not comport with your reality?
We miss you President Obama.
12
Another Trump spout out. Big man..Gitmo.lets torture. But the law wraps him in knots. Poor Don.
Has to pardon his kids and himself before Mueller halls them off to jail. it's a fools paradise!
Has to pardon his kids and himself before Mueller halls them off to jail. it's a fools paradise!
33
My gosh, can he have done something right? Hard to believe. That and the girls from Afghanistan make two right things. Yay.
7
There needs to be a box that daily lets people know what is true today that was different yesterday. This is getting to be like jumping on and off a merry-go-round that is traveling oat high speed!
32
So even when he does what you advocate you find fault? That is fine, but it does make for one very boring news site.
4
Ambrose - if nothing else this article points out the rank hypocrisy of our Commander in Chief and his lying henchmen. It also serves to illustrate reality (the real kind, not The Apprentice kind Mr Trump seems to live in) is more complicated than he realized.
Welcome to the adult world Mr President.
Welcome to the adult world Mr President.
8
It's news, not infotainment. If you prefer less boring, fake news, there are a variety of other sites you could surf.
5
It also shows how ignorant and wholly out of his league he truly is.
Don the treasonous con should be on trial here. not the guy from Spain. This is just a distraction.
17
Maybe the president will send AG Sessions to Guantanamo stand trial for perjury and treason.
13
Or even himself.
Trump does a pretty good Grouch Marx imitation:
“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others.”
“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others.”
46
It just gets weirder and weirder.
Hey Dems/DNC...this is yet more fodder for your messaging issues. The WH, Republican hypocrisy is your outline, now write the script! Since you guys had it right, you should be the ones administrring things. Not these copy cats. Hypocrites.
Again, like healthcare, Obama had it right. (Gitmo is is untenable. Close it.)
Healthcare good.
Gitmo, bad.
Russian sanctions, good.
Appeasement, bad.
And so it will continue. One issue at a time, the Repubs, and this dopey WH, will come around to see how they dont know much about all that much...in the real world. Real time is hard work.
This stuff is hard! Right Mr. President? Its ouchy hard.
Hey Dems/DNC...this is yet more fodder for your messaging issues. The WH, Republican hypocrisy is your outline, now write the script! Since you guys had it right, you should be the ones administrring things. Not these copy cats. Hypocrites.
Again, like healthcare, Obama had it right. (Gitmo is is untenable. Close it.)
Healthcare good.
Gitmo, bad.
Russian sanctions, good.
Appeasement, bad.
And so it will continue. One issue at a time, the Repubs, and this dopey WH, will come around to see how they dont know much about all that much...in the real world. Real time is hard work.
This stuff is hard! Right Mr. President? Its ouchy hard.
11
I am mightily encouraged to see this, and would like to see only this practice going forward.
In my opinion, "Gitmo is a Gulag." For too-many years, people have been sent there, and they ... stay there. It's just a tropical version of Siberia. This is not "the American way."
Obviously, the US Military has a system of Military Law, but for decades I have seen no real indication that even Military "due process of" Law has ever been seriously pursued regarding these people. They have simply been left there to rot. And, I think, no one under American custody should be "left to rot."
One of the principles of the USA is that you are entitled to a "speedy" resolution of whatever situation you find yourself in. With "Gitmo," too many Presidents so-far have simply "locked 'em up, presumed GUILTY, and thrown away the key."
Let's clean-up all the cases that have been "gulag'd in Gitmo," and close that prison. I'm not saying what should be done in any particular case, except that it should never be, "nothing."
In my opinion, "Gitmo is a Gulag." For too-many years, people have been sent there, and they ... stay there. It's just a tropical version of Siberia. This is not "the American way."
Obviously, the US Military has a system of Military Law, but for decades I have seen no real indication that even Military "due process of" Law has ever been seriously pursued regarding these people. They have simply been left there to rot. And, I think, no one under American custody should be "left to rot."
One of the principles of the USA is that you are entitled to a "speedy" resolution of whatever situation you find yourself in. With "Gitmo," too many Presidents so-far have simply "locked 'em up, presumed GUILTY, and thrown away the key."
Let's clean-up all the cases that have been "gulag'd in Gitmo," and close that prison. I'm not saying what should be done in any particular case, except that it should never be, "nothing."
22
This particular case notwithstanding, why do we give these criminals the legitimacy of calling them "war combatants"? Is that not playing into the myth that ISIS is a legal state?
10
Was that phrase not coined by the Bush43 administration so that they could prosecute those they renditioned under military tribunals rather than in open court?
3
And then, does it really matter so much what we call them?
2
'... why do we give these criminals the legitimacy of calling them "war combatants"?'
There is no such legal term as "war combatant".
The correct legal term is some variant of "illegal combatant". You can find numerous Times articles on the subject by doing a Google search for "illegal combatant site:nytimes.com".
2017-07-22 14:18:12 UTC
There is no such legal term as "war combatant".
The correct legal term is some variant of "illegal combatant". You can find numerous Times articles on the subject by doing a Google search for "illegal combatant site:nytimes.com".
2017-07-22 14:18:12 UTC
Times: "Had the Trump administration insisted on bringing Mr. Damache to Guantánamo Bay, it would have met strong opposition from Europe."
Damache was extradited from Spain, so why is the Times talking about "Europe"? What does "opposition from Europe" even mean?
2017-07-21 23:06:21 UTC
Damache was extradited from Spain, so why is the Times talking about "Europe"? What does "opposition from Europe" even mean?
2017-07-21 23:06:21 UTC
4
Spain is part of the EU and is considered part of Europe, it shares a border with France.
5
Dear MCV, aka mean corpuscular volume, a hematologic term: Spain is a member of the European Union, a group of nations larger in population that the United States, bordering Trump's friends in Russia, and the first ones to bear the brunt of Russian assault, and a market wealthier than the US.
A group of nations who start from the principle of respect for individuals, and a group who believe that the post-war liberal political and economic order the US led has given them the freedom and prosperity that two world wars were fought to prevent what Trump offers here. They have discovered they are powerful enough and don't need us.
I need you to explain how the US is benefited by being cut off from those people.
I honestly can't get past the lack of historical awareness, the self-centered belief in the lies and diversions about European weakness. Yes, fool, these were the same people that fought those wars mostly without the US.
A group of nations who start from the principle of respect for individuals, and a group who believe that the post-war liberal political and economic order the US led has given them the freedom and prosperity that two world wars were fought to prevent what Trump offers here. They have discovered they are powerful enough and don't need us.
I need you to explain how the US is benefited by being cut off from those people.
I honestly can't get past the lack of historical awareness, the self-centered belief in the lies and diversions about European weakness. Yes, fool, these were the same people that fought those wars mostly without the US.
5
Opposition from Europe means:
1. Imposing conditions on extradition so US loonies don't imprison people without first proving that they're guilty of something
2. Imposing conditions on extradition so US loonies don't torture the extradited suspects
3. Imposing conditions on extradition so US loonies don't kill the prisoners
4. Imposing conditions on extradition to guarantee the suspect have a fair trial with a right to defence, lawyers etc.. (which is most likely the case with this guy since he was extradited from Spain which, unlike the US, has respect for rights to trial, right to jury and freedom from torture. Sessions hasn't changed his mind he just has no choice).
And, further, opposition means restricted the sharing of intelligence information so it is not used in pursuit of illegal imprisonment, torture and extra-judicial killings. All of which really shouldn't need saying, but does.
1. Imposing conditions on extradition so US loonies don't imprison people without first proving that they're guilty of something
2. Imposing conditions on extradition so US loonies don't torture the extradited suspects
3. Imposing conditions on extradition so US loonies don't kill the prisoners
4. Imposing conditions on extradition to guarantee the suspect have a fair trial with a right to defence, lawyers etc.. (which is most likely the case with this guy since he was extradited from Spain which, unlike the US, has respect for rights to trial, right to jury and freedom from torture. Sessions hasn't changed his mind he just has no choice).
And, further, opposition means restricted the sharing of intelligence information so it is not used in pursuit of illegal imprisonment, torture and extra-judicial killings. All of which really shouldn't need saying, but does.
6
"For years, Republicans portrayed civilian trials as a weakness in Mr. Obama’s national security policy. His plan to prosecute Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the admitted mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, in Manhattan fizzled amid controversy."
Face it, if Obama had planned to use Guantanamo, the Republican "leadership" would have been against it and loudly screamed that he was disparaging our court system.
Earth to GOP. Please start admitting that it's good for our nation to base policy on evidence rather than on hating on the other party. Guantanamo doesn't work. Should be closed. Our court systems convict terrorists. Our mainland prisons hold them.
Face it, if Obama had planned to use Guantanamo, the Republican "leadership" would have been against it and loudly screamed that he was disparaging our court system.
Earth to GOP. Please start admitting that it's good for our nation to base policy on evidence rather than on hating on the other party. Guantanamo doesn't work. Should be closed. Our court systems convict terrorists. Our mainland prisons hold them.
27
The idea that the United States is assuming jurisdiction over this man and undertaking the criminal prosecution of a case based upon email "jurisdictional contact" alone boggles my mind. The actions that were allegedly undertaken all took place outside the U.S., and Mr. Damache's compelled presence in the United States is based upon alleged email contacts with Colleen LaRose. If a U.S. citizen were hauled into a foreign court - in say, Yemen - based upon email, lawyers would go crazy.
9
That's an interesting quote from Eric Holder. Apparently it took three reporters, and one additional contributor, to craft this straightforward story. Did any of these four think it appropriate to ask Mr. Holder his thoughts on why his 2012 policy of invoking the US courts to try overseas terrorist suspects seemed to stall after he left office a few months later?
2
Military tribunals: I wish I could say that was the worst idea to surface and gel in the B-43 administration, but there were too many. I can't believe B-41 would have ever countenanced that disaster. I am unaware of, at least to date, of a better judiciary than that of the United States.
3
It took the Feds less time to try the Boston bomber and a get a capital sentence than the military has any of the Sept. 11. Something is very clearly wrong here.
19
Well, if anyone can incarcerate suspected criminals, it's the US justice system. . . I never understood why there has been an argument against prosecution under conventional federal laws regarding suspected terrorists; maybe politics are involved. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate
Sessions should be aware, as Southern states' incarceration rates dwarf rates in the rest of the US. . . He probably is aware; "Jail those who are either insubordinate or may pose a potential refutation of such policies" comes to mind. . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate
Sessions should be aware, as Southern states' incarceration rates dwarf rates in the rest of the US. . . He probably is aware; "Jail those who are either insubordinate or may pose a potential refutation of such policies" comes to mind. . .
Wow, Trump recognizes fundamental human rights opposed by the Obama Administration. I really don't know what to to say. Does this mean that the US will not allow Muslims from immigrating to the US, but will try and prosecute and jail those with no bona fide links with the US? Once again, I don't know what to say.
1
What a joke the headline is, I bet the president was not even aware of this minor thing Sessions might have made this decision, or perhaps someone lower on the totem pole. Without the reason we don't know anything, I would not assume that policy in general has changed.
10
"What a joke the headline is ..."
Good point. The article itself repeatedly refers to the "Trump administration", but it is obvious that the Times is once again trying to make Trump look like a liar.
Good point. The article itself repeatedly refers to the "Trump administration", but it is obvious that the Times is once again trying to make Trump look like a liar.
1
It's not that difficult.
1
The Times doesn't have to "make" him look like anything. The non-stop firehose of lies spewed out of this administration does that all by itself.
1. Why US jurisdiction? Wasn't this a crime committed on Swedish soil against a Swedish citizen by a non-US citizen?
2. Even if US can claim some sort of jurisdiction, why Philadelphia?
2. Even if US can claim some sort of jurisdiction, why Philadelphia?
25
Anymore, I don't expect the Times to explain elementary legal principles, but to its credit, the Times posted the indictment, which answers your questions:
"1. Why US jurisdiction?"
The first charge against Damache involves conspiracy with US citizens. Damache also took control of a stolen US passport.
"2. ... why Philadelphia?"
Co-conspirator LaRose lived in PA.
"1. Why US jurisdiction?"
The first charge against Damache involves conspiracy with US citizens. Damache also took control of a stolen US passport.
"2. ... why Philadelphia?"
Co-conspirator LaRose lived in PA.
13
This is one of the very few things I agree with Trump doing though I agree with everyone here he's doing it for entirely the wrong reasons.
18
Trumps not doing this. How much you wanna bet he's hearing this now? Maybe Monday...
If he knew and agreed, how much that he will disagree with it next week?
And toss someone under a golf cart for it..
If he knew and agreed, how much that he will disagree with it next week?
And toss someone under a golf cart for it..
13
Are there any bigger hypocrites than the Republican Party "loyalists?"
22
Easiest question of the day. Yes. Republican Party "Christians."
15
I'd say both parties are equal in the hypocrite field.
So where is the Republican outrage now that a Republican President vs a Democratic President is bringing a terrorist suspect directly to US soil instead of sending him to Guantanamo?
What happened to all the Republican belly aching and refusal to bring terrorists from Guantanamo for trial on the US mainland?
What happened to all the Republican belly aching and refusal to bring terrorists from Guantanamo for trial on the US mainland?
56
It's simple. Whatever democrats do is wrong, and whatever republicans do is right. That's how republicans see the world, and that is why they are comfortable with glaring contradictions in their leaders and even in their own minds.
20
They only wanted to whine and accuse and disrespect when Pres Obama was in office. Now that they have their homophobic, xenophobic, misogynistic, racist bully demagogue, the exact same decision is reasonable.
12
It's hard being hypocritical. Kind of like lying - you can't remember the lies you told so you keep changing your story. And now there are so many things to be hypocritical about that Republicans just can't keep up. That's today's Republican Party. Not a shred of honesty or principles left.
13
I never understood the Guantamano way of things. The Feds in N.Y.C. should've tried anyone thought responsible. A stay at Riker's would have been a good start.
37
MCV: "Riker's is a STATE prison."
Correcting myself. Rikers Island is a New York City jail complex.
Anyway, there is a Federal Detention Center in Philadelphia.
Source: Wikipedia.
Correcting myself. Rikers Island is a New York City jail complex.
Anyway, there is a Federal Detention Center in Philadelphia.
Source: Wikipedia.
AH, The GOP fear-mongered about the possibility of a terrorist escaping from a supermax facility, even though it has NEVER happened. Most of their objection was just knee-jerk hating Obama and feeding their base more fear and loathing.
14
"A stay at Riker's would have been a good start."
Riker's is a STATE prison. As you appear to know, Damache is being charged with FEDERAL crimes.
Riker's is a STATE prison. As you appear to know, Damache is being charged with FEDERAL crimes.
OMG. A terrorist on US soil? What about the travel ban???!
43
So Obama for 8 years straight wanted to close Guantánamo Bay Prison but somehow couldn't do that. Now Trump with his left pinky decided to sent some guy to Philadelphia rather than Cuba because he doesn't like Jeff Sessions. Who is on first here.
22
While the president personally got some Afghan children into our country for a contest, I bet he is not even aware of this unless he reads this article.
6
Who is on second :-)
Of course they did.
3
If Republican voters were willing to look, they'd realize that all of this - the whole Obamacare debate, the realization that Guantamano isn't the solution - it's proof they've been being lied to. The Republicans knew they were in the wrong, but they knew that keeping their voters angry and feeling disenfranchised was the key to victory, so they lie to them over and over, and the right wing press pushes the lies.
Obamacare could be better - but it's far better than what we had before, and SAVES us money - and lives, if you care about that sort of thing. Avoiding our own laws makes us seem hypocrites and helps terrorism, doesn't hurt it.
Obamacare could be better - but it's far better than what we had before, and SAVES us money - and lives, if you care about that sort of thing. Avoiding our own laws makes us seem hypocrites and helps terrorism, doesn't hurt it.
56
Just who does it save money from? I only see more spending on say those stupid exchanges, more regulations, more waste. Now it might extend lives but see the Oregon study that it does not improve physical health.
1
I know several people whose premiums went down when they went to the exchanges, two who were able to get insurance when they never had before owing to pre-existing conditions, and three 22/23/24 year olds who were able to stay on their parents' policies until they found post-college jobs that offered coverage. It is the evil "regulations" that gave these people access to doctor, kept them out of ERs and off of Medicaid. So from that standpoint, a great deal of money was not paid by taxpayers that without the ACA would have been.
5
A yuge percentage of the 62,979,879 deplorables will never, EVER admit to being conned and will re-elect him without question if the Dems don't get their act together and soon.
6
While I enjoy pretending to be upset when Trump's campaign trail lies are exposed (I've long since been desensitized), this is an entirely positive step. I hope the administration commits to due process as it's a fundamental right of the accused.
56
It's less likely that Sessions came to his senses than that Spain refused to hand the guy over unless the US promised not to send him to Guantanamo but instead take him to court.
66
The chief law enforcement officer of the United States does not determine which persons accused of crimes "deserve" legal rights such as a public trial and the presumption of innocence. Acts of terrorism are all capable of being addressed under state and federal criminal statutes. Those accused of committing them have the same constitutional rights as those accused of committing crimes that do not have a terroristic component. National security is more threatened by secret trials than it is by public trials of supposedly dangerous people.
Once we allow the federal government to classify groups of accused persons that "deserve" due process, we should not be surprised when one day a group to which we belong, a labor union for example or a news organization, is categorized among the undeserving.
Guantanamo is a national disgrace: a precursor of the fascist tendencies we see in the current administration. The torture that has occurred there, the prison camp itself, undermine our boast that we are a free country. We now live in a place where the Attorney General has to be reminded that an arrest does not give rise to a presumption that the arrested person is a (common) criminal. Guilty verdicts and pleas determine criminality, not the police, legislators, or the Attorney General.
Once we allow the federal government to classify groups of accused persons that "deserve" due process, we should not be surprised when one day a group to which we belong, a labor union for example or a news organization, is categorized among the undeserving.
Guantanamo is a national disgrace: a precursor of the fascist tendencies we see in the current administration. The torture that has occurred there, the prison camp itself, undermine our boast that we are a free country. We now live in a place where the Attorney General has to be reminded that an arrest does not give rise to a presumption that the arrested person is a (common) criminal. Guilty verdicts and pleas determine criminality, not the police, legislators, or the Attorney General.
119
So as the court has agreed with you, Gitmo can have a court and trials there. Perhaps a standing jury would be a good idea, I would be happy to serve. The jail can be there not here.
1
Maybe Americans really need a benevolent dictator. When President Obama opened this issue to debate he was vehemently opposed. Now Trump just did it without asking, there's hardly a whimper from anyone.
16
Well, if you can find a "benevolent dictator" who wants the job, and also invent some way to keep him or her benevolent, and his or her successors as well, get in touch. But really, our confused, ever-changing, multi-lingual, multi-cultural, immense and amazing old world is most likely beyond the reach of a single will to control, or the ability of any human being to command, "benevolently" or otherwise . I hope so, anyway.
4
No, we do not need a benevolent dictator!!! What we need is an end to the disruptive partisanship displayed primarily by the GOP. As pointed out, Obama had too much pressure just to shut it down. Trump does not care about the rule of law and this move is probably an effort to make it as uncomfortable for Sessions as possible so he, like Spicer, will resign. I do not like Sessions. I think he is an amoral racist but I say hang in there just so we can see the contortions the Liar in Chief will come up with to justify Sessions' termination. Again if the Liar in Chief had not appointed liars like himself, he and Sessions would not be in this position now.
6
Appears to be the latest Trumpian showboat event. This will not end well, however I believe that Trump believes this will somehow show he is acting presidential to his base.
6
It's easy to see Trump is taunting Sessions trying to force him to resign.
5
"the world's greatest judicial system", Mr Holder? Please...
When you get rid of the death penalty, of the broken bail system, of the mass incarceration problem and of the oddity of electing judges, you may apply for a spot in the top 5.
When you get rid of the death penalty, of the broken bail system, of the mass incarceration problem and of the oddity of electing judges, you may apply for a spot in the top 5.
28
We like the death penalty, so no getting rid of that. He was talking about the federal system not the states. I agree that bail system at the state level leaves a lot to be desired, especially say in Chicago where violent gang leaders get out due to having drug money. There is no "mass incarceration" if there was Chicago would be safer. Federal judges are not elected. Now we still might not be top 5 even by my standards, probably not top 10 either.
What Trump is going to figure out is that President Obama's actually made and make best sense, as he adopts more of them, the next being fixing the ACA rather than repealing it. Hypocritical? Certainly, but Trump's own ideas will be over the long run found to be too callous and shortsighted.
8
Even if Trump adopts President Obama's policies 100% he'll never admit to doing so. He's more likely to claim credit for either creating the entire policy or making it better.
15
Trump HAS no ideas: he doesn't read, he doesn't study the issues, he doesn't think deeply. Trump is the true "tabula rasa": a blank slate for whoever feeds his ego with something simple that sounds good. And there are plenty of Republicans, who care more for Party and their own pockets than country, who have lined up - sorry: slimed up, because they have no spine - to do that.
8
They won't be found to be too callous or shortsighted by the vast majority of the 62,979,879 deplorables who elected him and who will re-elect him if the Dems don't get it together and craft an electable platform.
2
So, who's surprised Trump again lied?
Lying is the only capability he's consistently demonstrated skill!
Lying is the only capability he's consistently demonstrated skill!
10
Trump's promises drop like Autumn leaves on the lawn, suitable only as compost.
12
The lack of transparency in Trump's administration is chilling.
5
What! There is too much transparency that everything from white house is leaking. No country in the world has news from president's office leaking like in facebook. We need to have some Information control to maintain the dignity of the Office and secrecy. Public does not need to know everything what the President's office is doing. They are interested only in Good Results, for things they have voted him for.
1
what was the word the other day the government is slipping into incoherence
i am slipping;
everything wrong is right again, now that the fabulous trumpster is doing it
applause resounds where there was outrage and condemnation
i guess you could call this a real shake-up but towards what end, i wonder.
i am slipping;
everything wrong is right again, now that the fabulous trumpster is doing it
applause resounds where there was outrage and condemnation
i guess you could call this a real shake-up but towards what end, i wonder.
8
Trump is trying to make it 'inappropriate' for Sessions to continue. He could care less where Al Qaeda suspects are tried. It's just another attempt to get himself off the front pages with regard to the Russian investigation. With regard to that, no news is not good news for Trump. The work continues and the truth will out no matter how many people he fires or hires.
44
If the president wanted Sessions out he would be gone, perhaps he is looking for improvement.
1
Hope this is a policy not a deal made to get Spain to extradite the defendant. Suspect it's not the administration's policy to handle terrorism cases this way.
4
Why are we spending money to try and lock up a guy whose crimes were committed overseas and directed towards a Swedish cartoonist who does not live or work in the US?
You would think the Swedes or the Irish would prosecute him. It seems like the US gets to be the prosecutor and jailer for the Europeans. Remember the soccer scandal. Non of the crimes involved US citizens or residents or were committed in the US.
You would think the Swedes or the Irish would prosecute him. It seems like the US gets to be the prosecutor and jailer for the Europeans. Remember the soccer scandal. Non of the crimes involved US citizens or residents or were committed in the US.
35
"Spanish officials said the suspect, Ali Charaf Damache, was arrested in Barcelona, where he had been moving between hostels. The United States has been seeking the extradition of Mr. Damache, who is also accused of planning to set up terrorist training camps and kill several other Westerners."
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/world/europe/spain-arrests-terrorism-...®ion=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/world/europe/spain-arrests-terrorism-...®ion=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article
1
The claim that Damache "was charged by the US with helping plot to kill a Swedish cartoonist" is misleading at best. He was charged in Ireland for that crime but the prosecution failed because of a violation of his rights analogous to those of the US Fourth Amendment (http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/f69fbd31c73dda2580256cd400020877/bdc2ceb0.... The US asked for extradition of Mr Damache because of a conspiracy with two people in the US to train US and European sympathizers to train them for terrorist acts mostly in Europe. Apparently, the plot was detected in the US (see link in article). The extradition request failed in Ireland because of concerns about "conditions of detention" (Guantánamo?) and the US sentences guidelines which far exceed the ones in Ireland. Mind you, Mr. Damache is an Irish citizen (https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0521/702899-ali-charaf-damache/). What is indeed unclear is why the Director of Public Prosecution declined to prosecute in Ireland.
The Spanish authorities are far more pliant to extradition requests, probably because of their own hard line against their home-grown terrorists. It is however, unclear, what assurances they were given by the US about the points that preoccupied the Irish. My guess is that to keep Guantánamo out of the pictures was one of them.
The Spanish authorities are far more pliant to extradition requests, probably because of their own hard line against their home-grown terrorists. It is however, unclear, what assurances they were given by the US about the points that preoccupied the Irish. My guess is that to keep Guantánamo out of the pictures was one of them.
4
Mr. Damache was charged with conspiracy to support terrorists and attempted identity theft to facilitate an act of international terrorism.
The Guantanamo prison is the site of numerous human rights violations including torture and death. It should be closed immediately. Trump constantly plays the terrorist card to sound tough and rally his base. Six Americans were killed by terrorists in 2016, while 32,426 Americans were killed with handguns. Let's try to get our priorities straight.
91
our elected representatives certainly get their priorities straight. fear is big business and they never forget who contributed to their campaign.
however, don't forget to vote. they need your vote and their campaign dollars.
however, don't forget to vote. they need your vote and their campaign dollars.
1
It is??? And those hand guns are a constitutional right. How many were killed in vehicle accidents, time to get our priorities straight, and how many of those hand gun issues were criminals?
Just a distraction for the 30%.
35
At this point, of all the things he accused President Obama of, the only Trump hasn't actually done is be born in Kenya.
112
Jimal for the win!
5
Are you sure?
Where is his birth certificate?
Hidden with his tax returns?
Where is his birth certificate?
Hidden with his tax returns?
What was the extradition agreement with Spain?
1
Perhaps Spain provided two choices: 1) Regular court, or 2) Release into Mexico so he could just walk across.
1
A site for a Trump building in return.
4
Justice is not the real agenda for the Trump White House. They are working to capture the headlines with a trial that will dim the spotlight on Russiagate and Trump's glaring inability to be presidential in any way whatsoever.
22
Trump reverting to an Obama policy? Never happen!
8
"Attorney General Jeff Sessions has repeatedly said that terrorism suspects should be held and prosecuted at Guantánamo Bay. Mr. Sessions said terrorists do not deserve the same legal rights as common criminals and that such trials were too dangerous to hold on American soil. "
A terrorism suspect is not the same as a terrorist. Everyone deserves due process. It's unfair yo condemn Muslims for not upholding Western values then not give them access to the same values.
A terrorism suspect is not the same as a terrorist. Everyone deserves due process. It's unfair yo condemn Muslims for not upholding Western values then not give them access to the same values.
15
And yet another long-running Republican freakout is shown to have been empty anti-Obama posturing.
81
"Terrorists" don't deserve the same rights as "common criminals," huh? How do we know they're terrorists without a trial? Just take the government's word for it? And how did we know the "common criminals" were criminals before they had a trial? That's why people have legal rights in the first place -- because the government often gets these things wrong.
11
So where will Trump be tried? Federal court on US soil or Gitmo?
I can't decide whether he's a common criminal or a terrorist. Lots of evidence for both!
I can't decide whether he's a common criminal or a terrorist. Lots of evidence for both!
Are you telling me that the Trump Administration/GOP resistance to trying terror subjects in the U.S. was mere bluster against Obama? My, my, will wonders never cease.
30
Next mission for Sessions: Privatize Guantanamo.
9
Anyone can see the U.S. government is in shambles. One side does not know what the other side is doing. We are officially a mess.
9
It's a trial balloon. If he gets a conviction, Trump can practice pardoning, so he'll have it down when he faces his own conviction.
9
Well then let's once and for all close the draconian Gitmo and either release or transfer the remaining detainees to maximum security federal prisons. Just more useless military spending.
17
This is very disturbing and disheartening.
4
What? That Trump is actually not relying on dictatorial powers? Is that disheartening? That he is validating our court system and our values unlike his predecessor?
The main point is that the US would not have been able to take custody if the destination was Guantanamo Bay.
We can't let terrorists hide behind arguments of political correctness.
Get him into US custody and he can bide his time in supermax or some other facility - just get him off the street.
We can't let terrorists hide behind arguments of political correctness.
Get him into US custody and he can bide his time in supermax or some other facility - just get him off the street.
15
Yes, but Trump/Sessions can choose between military tribunal or civilian court on U.S. soil and they have opted for latter.
I have theory for how Mr. Damache ended up in Philadelphia rather than Guantanamo Bay. No, it doesn't depend on Trump or Sessions lack of knowledge about geography nor is it like when Trump and the Navy said Navy ships were heading to a North Korea hot spot when they were actually heading to Australia.
No, the two old men-- Sessions and Trump -- simply forgot one of the very long list of rules and regulations they promised to change during the heat of the campaign. They fired (accepted forced resignations) the staff in place from President Obama's administration but failed to nominate anyone to keep track of the details of what they said they would do. So the policy of bringing suspects like Mr. Damache to trial in federal court-- a policy which works and does not enrage our European allies--continued because the few remaining staff didn't have anyone telling them to do something else.
Let's hope Trump continues to forget more of his terrible campaign promises like this one since he certainly has forgotten his promise of "beautiful healthcare" for every American.
No, the two old men-- Sessions and Trump -- simply forgot one of the very long list of rules and regulations they promised to change during the heat of the campaign. They fired (accepted forced resignations) the staff in place from President Obama's administration but failed to nominate anyone to keep track of the details of what they said they would do. So the policy of bringing suspects like Mr. Damache to trial in federal court-- a policy which works and does not enrage our European allies--continued because the few remaining staff didn't have anyone telling them to do something else.
Let's hope Trump continues to forget more of his terrible campaign promises like this one since he certainly has forgotten his promise of "beautiful healthcare" for every American.
12
We can only hope the voters he duped during the campaign are learning nothing he says can be trusted...
8
Given that the thing that comes closest to a coherent policy or governing principle of Trump's tenure to this point is DDWBD (Don't do what Barack Did), he must have had a fit before he let this happen. Same with preserving Iran deal. Can only guess that Putin must have overruled him. Now we know what they talked about at the G20 meeting.
6
Not another distraction? Perish the thought, two in one day!!!
5
When Obama wanted to try terrorism suspects in federal courts instead of sending them to Guantanamo, Republicans excoriated him for bringing "evil-doers" onto US soil. But I guess Trump et al can do no wrong, eh?
21
Breaking From Campaign Rhetoric
You call it rhetoric, I call it lies.
You call it rhetoric, I call it lies.
11
This could be a nice distraction. The "fake news" media would report on this; Trump could comment on it; Sessions could disagree with Trump, and then maybe Sessions would be out.
Consistency is never a factor with Trump.
Consistency is never a factor with Trump.
5
I guess that the Travel Ban wasn't for ALL Muslims after all.
14
are there trial courts at Gitmo?
The Gang That Couldn't proseCute Straight.
This administration can't seem to make up its mind about anything.
This administration can't seem to make up its mind about anything.
4
Keeping in mind, the President's 'trash-talking' of Mr. Sessions during his recent NY Times interview, this decision may well be the final nail in Mr. Sessions' coffin.
3
I thought this was a terrible idea that made Americans less safe? Ohhhh, that's right. That was when Obama wanted to do it.
19
Once again, the Republicans are all about tough-guy symbolism. 'Throw em in Guantanamo' is their creed. Meanwhile, federal prosecutors have been quietly winning terrorism convictions and gaining valuable intelligence in doing so. But that does not sound macho enough, so Trump et al pound their chests but get nothing done.
9
"Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them"
-Al Franken-Senate
His best seller was supposed to be satire. But that's all changed. It's not just Trump, it's the whole lot of them lying to America every day now.
-Al Franken-Senate
His best seller was supposed to be satire. But that's all changed. It's not just Trump, it's the whole lot of them lying to America every day now.
10
Strange that this comes to light when POTUS appears to have problems. Well, a good smoke screen is better than none. Take him to Cuba.
5
Guantanamo is mostly empty now. Just a suggestion, but the prison might be a perfect location for Trump, Kushner, Trump Jr., Flynn, Stone, Page, and Bannon to serve their terms for conspiracy, treason, and money-laundering.
A scenic location, and near Mar-A Lago for Trump family visits.
A scenic location, and near Mar-A Lago for Trump family visits.
65
I've given up pointing these reversals out to my Republican acquaintances.
The first few dozen examples made no impression, so it's no loss if I no longer mention the cascade embracings of policies which made Obama evil to them.
The first few dozen examples made no impression, so it's no loss if I no longer mention the cascade embracings of policies which made Obama evil to them.
9
The whole "terrorism suspects...do not deserve the same legal rights as common criminals" is a stupid thing to say. By that logic every criminal in the united states should get different rights based on the severity of what they are being accused of. The key word in that sentence is "suspect" and you shouldnt be treated different just because you are accused of something more serious.
115
Reality bites
3
GOP thy name is hypocrisy.
12
Gosh we were told it was too dangerous to bring a Qaeda suspects to civilian courts for prosecution, when Obama tried it. :(
35
(suspected) Terrorists can come in. Grandmothers cannot.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
8
Strictly a Trumpian theatrical move, so he can grandstand on Twitter over a show trial to divert attention from the indictments he fears Mueller is preparing.
5
Wouldn't it be grand justice if, after impeachment (oh please, oh please), Trump got tried for treason in the same Philly court? BTW, did I miss why that jurisdiction got the case?
If prosecutors can get from Jihad Jane to Mr. Damache then surely they get from James Comey to Russian money laundering.
10
Whatever Trump's motivation, I'm glad to see terror suspects tried in civil courts, as they used to be.
5
It's more confirmation that the important thing is Trump said it. It's less important to the base that he actually does it. The base is used to politicians doing nothing they say. But least they get to hear the President say the things they would say, if they were President, the things they want to hear. It better for them than Obama, who not only said things they didn't want to hear, he also didn't do the things the Trump base wanted him to do.
3
Is it really even possible for President Trump to begin to save his Presidential legacy over his desire for power and money and fame from some dubious power-brokers? He has three and a half years left.
2
.......He has three and a half years left.
Nope. He will not achieve that figure.
Nope. He will not achieve that figure.
2
From your mouth to God's ear.
Who knew it could be so difficult.
6
My guess is that with this one guy, they have enough evidence to prosecute him in the "regular" courts. If they didn't, my guess is they would have sent him to Guantanamo.
This is not a change in policy but the practical application of it.
This is not a change in policy but the practical application of it.
3
Once again fantastic promises (We'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it, We will repeal and replace Obamacare on the first day, We will bring back mining and manufacturing jobs on day one, We will renegotiate NAFTA, TPP and the Iran deal till everybody respects us again, We will fill Guantanamo bay with ISIS fighters) meets the real world where not all the heads are as empty as the ones that believed the rhetoric.
11
Also, it's worth noting that the defendant came from Spain. I will also guess that Spain released him to the US on the condition that he receive a criminal trial and not be sent to Guantanamo.
Again, just practical application of policy.
Again, just practical application of policy.
10
My guess is that capital punishment was also taken off the table in order to get extradition.
The detention and appearance in a Philadelphia federal court of a captured terrorist is a calculated, cynic public relations and media effort at a time when Trump's policy entanglements, and resistance to the special counsel's Russian investigation has brought his standing to a revisited low. The perp walk will be featured in print and broadcast media and wins the minds of some who believe Trump's willingness to follow and abide the rule of law is evident in this latest move.
This new found faith in the legal system is a sham. A classic use of a terrorist case for political points, no different than the politics that used the grief of families for relatives killed by undocumented residents, but this time to arouse cheers rather than fear.
What should be feared is the constant whiplash of Trump's manipulation, the cynical ploys that exploit the political climate in ways more about elevating Trump than the country. Behind the high profile visibility of parading a terrorist for the media cycle as a carnival show is an ego that puts himself first and uses every opportunity to do so.
Credit for the capture! None for its political exploitation; no doubt repeated, amplified, and contrasted with what the justice system should be during (rather than looking into Russian influence in the campaign and current policy) for days ahead.
This new found faith in the legal system is a sham. A classic use of a terrorist case for political points, no different than the politics that used the grief of families for relatives killed by undocumented residents, but this time to arouse cheers rather than fear.
What should be feared is the constant whiplash of Trump's manipulation, the cynical ploys that exploit the political climate in ways more about elevating Trump than the country. Behind the high profile visibility of parading a terrorist for the media cycle as a carnival show is an ego that puts himself first and uses every opportunity to do so.
Credit for the capture! None for its political exploitation; no doubt repeated, amplified, and contrasted with what the justice system should be during (rather than looking into Russian influence in the campaign and current policy) for days ahead.
9
If Ali Charaf Damache were accused of a capital crime, he probably would never have been extradited. As is, the Spanish government insisted on trial before a civil court where the accused might have far more access to a fair trial and to due process. No mention was made of the Irish government's concerns but I would not be surprised if they were either part of the negotiations or were consulted.
If the A-G is truly unhappy with this move, he can resign. However, he should have realized that a campaign promise by the president has little value.
The more we treat terrorists as criminals, the more the United States' prestige will be enhanced. This accused can hardly be called an enemy combatant beyond the rule of ordinary law.
If the A-G is truly unhappy with this move, he can resign. However, he should have realized that a campaign promise by the president has little value.
The more we treat terrorists as criminals, the more the United States' prestige will be enhanced. This accused can hardly be called an enemy combatant beyond the rule of ordinary law.
8
More campaign lies and hypocrisy.
How these people trash the efforts of President Obama and then adopt his strategy. It just doesn't stop.
How these people trash the efforts of President Obama and then adopt his strategy. It just doesn't stop.
221
The same could be said about Obama and his comments re Bush's policies. Obama promised to close Guantanamo, remember?
But like our current president, I am sure many would deflect blame to congress or the "other" (party, that is).
But like our current president, I am sure many would deflect blame to congress or the "other" (party, that is).
1
Sorry, Henry, thinking Americans are well aware that President Obama's attempts at closing Guantanamo were also thwarted by Republicans.
19
HAVING PROMISED to close the Guantanamo Bay prison during his first year in office, President Obama will leave about 40 prisoners there when he completes his second term. It’s a failure that has something to do with Mr. Obama’s reluctance to press his legal authority and something to do with the sluggishness of his appointees at the Pentagon; but it’s mostly the result of obstructionism by Congress, which foolishly blocked the transfer of detainees to prisons in the United States and placed onerous conditions on their release to other countries. Given the difficulties he faced, Mr. Obama has done the country a service by greatly reducing the blight that Guantanamo placed on the country’s international reputation. Now he must hope that Donald Trump does not give it a new life.
3
"With Mr. Damache’s transfer, Mr. Sessions has adopted a strategy that he vehemently opposed when it was carried out under President Barack Obama."
I guess hypocrisy is forgivable when the Trump administration practices it on a Friday afternoon. Frankly I don't care where they are prosecuted, and if there's a better chance of learning something in a civil court, so be it.
But this business of screaming at your predecessor for things you end up doing yourself simply doesn't sit well with thinking Americans.
I guess hypocrisy is forgivable when the Trump administration practices it on a Friday afternoon. Frankly I don't care where they are prosecuted, and if there's a better chance of learning something in a civil court, so be it.
But this business of screaming at your predecessor for things you end up doing yourself simply doesn't sit well with thinking Americans.
260
A big Friday afternoon "news dump" for sure!
1
Did you read the entire article? If the US demanded that Damache be sent to Guantanamo, he would never have been extradited - it was our only chance to get our hands on this guy to try him in court.
Too bad most voters don't seem to be "thinking Americans." Trump supporters are still making excuses for Trump submissiveness to Putin.
1
Like so much else since Trump has taken office "Who knew that it was so complicated?"
187
Always the Master of Distraction, the what-can-we-do-to-take-peoples-minds-off what really matters, here is the latest smokescreen.
Now he plays the "I am tough on terror" card.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions has adamantly favored holding suspects in Guantánamo Bay. Oh is that right? They why were republicans so anti-Obama because he didn't close the dump??????
Now he plays the "I am tough on terror" card.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions has adamantly favored holding suspects in Guantánamo Bay. Oh is that right? They why were republicans so anti-Obama because he didn't close the dump??????
135
Because Mr. Sessions is looking at this highly visible media ploy as an insurance policy against Trump trying to fire him. Very simple act of self-preservation.
Because he insisted on waking up everyday as a brown person.
2
Once again, Trump is doing things he lambasted Obama for doing.
Like acting like a civilized government.
No more Mr. Tough Guy?