As long as DeVos adopts a policy of: sexual assault is investigated and prosecuted by the local law enforcement authorities, I'm with it.
7
In the pursuit of justice for college women, the 50.1% rule ends up infantilizing them instead. Is that a oincidence or does it stem from our inherent, unconscious, and instinctively condescending paternalism?
10
If 25% of college females (as what is always reported) are sexually assaulted, what parent in their right mind would send their daughter away to college?
Sadly, it's become a joke. A guy and a girl, both under the influence of alcohol spend the night together. The next day the girl regrets it and the guy will be lead to a kangaroo court where he will be found at least 50.1% guilty. It is a disgrace.
Sadly, it's become a joke. A guy and a girl, both under the influence of alcohol spend the night together. The next day the girl regrets it and the guy will be lead to a kangaroo court where he will be found at least 50.1% guilty. It is a disgrace.
18
Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
But you are a Student/Professor/Staff at a University.
Someone makes a " Sexual Harassment " charge against you.
No witnesses, no plausible reason for you to have done what
your are charged with.
The Wheels of "University Justice" go into motion and you are
suspended from Campus and the charges are made public.
After a group of Administrators/Professors/Staff adjudicate
you may lose your job, be exiled from campus and find your reputation
ruined.
Where are the Federal Judges that are protecting us from Trump -
not doing anything about all of this ?
But you are a Student/Professor/Staff at a University.
Someone makes a " Sexual Harassment " charge against you.
No witnesses, no plausible reason for you to have done what
your are charged with.
The Wheels of "University Justice" go into motion and you are
suspended from Campus and the charges are made public.
After a group of Administrators/Professors/Staff adjudicate
you may lose your job, be exiled from campus and find your reputation
ruined.
Where are the Federal Judges that are protecting us from Trump -
not doing anything about all of this ?
8
"His administration is the worst possible candidate for challenging federal overreach on campus sexual assault." This is what people mean by MSM being so biased. It does not matter if this administration does the right thing, the media beatings will continue until morale improves. This is the classic liberal progressive way of thinking.
10
Sexual assault should be investigated by law enforcement officials no matter where it happens. Universities are not arbiters of justice. That's what our courts do.
13
A measured, thoughtful editorial on the issue of sexual assault policy... only a matter of time until the social justice crowd circles the wagons!
7
In college, everything gets turned into an intellectual debate. Rape really can't be interpreted or intellectualized. It's not subject to different "schools of thought." But you can bet it will be treated that way in a college setting.
Really, everybody knows whether they intended to have sex with someone or not. But because colleges are all founded on the socratic method, people get fuzzy and dialectic about it.
Really, everybody knows whether they intended to have sex with someone or not. But because colleges are all founded on the socratic method, people get fuzzy and dialectic about it.
3
It is not anywhere close to fashionable to say this, but I agree with this statement. The capitulation of the academic world to radical feminist aggression is one of the scandals dogging what passes for liberal culture in this country. This sort of thing isn't liberal. It's totalitarian, to the core.
18
Women and girls are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual harassment, sexual assault, abuse, threats, and rape - often discouraged from reporting the crimes and find when they do, they're not believed or taken seriously - or victimized again and again by the justice system and other authorities.
There are some 400,000 rape kits left untested in this country - often for so long, statutes of limitations run out or the evidence is destroyed.
More often than not, the perpetrators go scot-free - and go on to victimize others.
Yet now we're to believe that the perpetrators are the true "victims"?!?
How convenient for all the misogynist fringe groups and extreme rightwingnuts who seek to strip women of all rights - especially the rights to our own bodies - that Ms. Know-Nothing is taking their side.
For decades, colleges and universities, even high schools, have swept these crimes under the rug, especially when the accused is a star athlete or from a prominent, wealthy family. Even now, it's far more common for the victim to have to drop out, because her attacker is still on campus - and continues to harass and threaten her.
Or the victim drops out due to the trauma and depression that scar her for life.
So we're back to victim-blaming - now to the 100th power, as a matter of policy - set by a member of this administration, led by the bully who brags about sexually assaulting women and who's shown contempt for the law his entire life.
There are some 400,000 rape kits left untested in this country - often for so long, statutes of limitations run out or the evidence is destroyed.
More often than not, the perpetrators go scot-free - and go on to victimize others.
Yet now we're to believe that the perpetrators are the true "victims"?!?
How convenient for all the misogynist fringe groups and extreme rightwingnuts who seek to strip women of all rights - especially the rights to our own bodies - that Ms. Know-Nothing is taking their side.
For decades, colleges and universities, even high schools, have swept these crimes under the rug, especially when the accused is a star athlete or from a prominent, wealthy family. Even now, it's far more common for the victim to have to drop out, because her attacker is still on campus - and continues to harass and threaten her.
Or the victim drops out due to the trauma and depression that scar her for life.
So we're back to victim-blaming - now to the 100th power, as a matter of policy - set by a member of this administration, led by the bully who brags about sexually assaulting women and who's shown contempt for the law his entire life.
3
That letter is a blight on the Obama administration. It handed over policy to crusaders and brought the hammer of the federal government and what amounts to extortion onto universities. They were forced to set up kangaroo courts and railroad male students or face ruinous consequences.
14
Universities are not, and should not be, an extension of the criminal justice system. They don't have the required expertise, training, objectivity, or legal empowerment.
Allegations of rape are entirely a matter for our judicial system. Universities should act within that limitation.
Allegations of rape are entirely a matter for our judicial system. Universities should act within that limitation.
8
What all of this proves s that colleges have absolutely no expertise nor business being investigators of sexual assault or misconduct. The best result would be for colleges to put investigation in the hands of actual law enforcement professionals.
Further, colleges will never admit that they have a glaring conflict of interest. No college has even a remote interest in legitimate due process if the result is they are known as a campus where rape occurs, and the concomitant impact that might have on the number of incoming applications.
Further, colleges will never admit that they have a glaring conflict of interest. No college has even a remote interest in legitimate due process if the result is they are known as a campus where rape occurs, and the concomitant impact that might have on the number of incoming applications.
5
Faculty and Staff at our University was forced to take a 1 hour course on sexual assault and managing possible conversations with someone who was being harassed or assaulted. The thrust of the training was to make it clear that we must inform the person talking with us that we are required to inform on the content of the conversation to the proper campus office.
Universities are being pilloried over sexual assault recriminations and want to get out from under the legal pressure they find themselves in. By making it crystal clear to Faculty and Staff that they are on the legal hook for informing on the student and their situation to the University, they hope to get out of the morass.
Because of the training, I now know what to look for and will properly inform the student that they should talk with the police, not me, so I engender no personal liability.
Universities are being pilloried over sexual assault recriminations and want to get out from under the legal pressure they find themselves in. By making it crystal clear to Faculty and Staff that they are on the legal hook for informing on the student and their situation to the University, they hope to get out of the morass.
Because of the training, I now know what to look for and will properly inform the student that they should talk with the police, not me, so I engender no personal liability.
2
Democrats advocating for keeping Title IX as is are embracing electoral loss in 2018.
5
As Bertrand Russell noted, "All movements go too far".
The Obama Administration accepted the campus rape hysteria as justification for unbalancing the scales of justice. Its well-intentioned efforts to create safer environments for college women perversely served to create new dystopias for college men.
Surely there is a way to provide fair process for victims that does not undercut due process for the accused!
The Obama Administration accepted the campus rape hysteria as justification for unbalancing the scales of justice. Its well-intentioned efforts to create safer environments for college women perversely served to create new dystopias for college men.
Surely there is a way to provide fair process for victims that does not undercut due process for the accused!
8
I don't mean to sound like a crank . . . .
. . .but I expect I will. . . . .
Anyone out there--anyone at all--that finds all this a bit nightmarish?
I am in my late sixties. That is, I was a young man during the piping days of the 1960's. The Pill--"Sex and the Single Girl"--the sexual revolution--Woodstock. All that. For many it seemed the very gates of Paradise were swinging wide open. All we had to do--boys and girls alike--was (and pardon my language) strip and go prancing through.
And look at us now. My college days are long gone. I wouldn't be a college kid now if you paid me. I mean--paid me BIG BUCKS. No way, Jose!
I know. I sound like an embittered conservative Republican. I'm not. Please believe me--I'm not.
But sakes! Look at us, for crying out loud. Look at us. I don't like where we are right now. Anyone else feel that way?
Anyone at all?
Thanks for listening. Peace, bro.
And you too, Ms. Young. Thanks for your column. Lotta problems out there, no?
Well, it would certainly appear so. Thanks again.
. . .but I expect I will. . . . .
Anyone out there--anyone at all--that finds all this a bit nightmarish?
I am in my late sixties. That is, I was a young man during the piping days of the 1960's. The Pill--"Sex and the Single Girl"--the sexual revolution--Woodstock. All that. For many it seemed the very gates of Paradise were swinging wide open. All we had to do--boys and girls alike--was (and pardon my language) strip and go prancing through.
And look at us now. My college days are long gone. I wouldn't be a college kid now if you paid me. I mean--paid me BIG BUCKS. No way, Jose!
I know. I sound like an embittered conservative Republican. I'm not. Please believe me--I'm not.
But sakes! Look at us, for crying out loud. Look at us. I don't like where we are right now. Anyone else feel that way?
Anyone at all?
Thanks for listening. Peace, bro.
And you too, Ms. Young. Thanks for your column. Lotta problems out there, no?
Well, it would certainly appear so. Thanks again.
10
Some institutions of higher education want to stay in the business of policing campus sex crimes because it gives them more latitude to quietly excuse the bad behaviour of their tenured faculty and keep the whole nasty business out of sight. How many families would send their daughters to a school known to have convicted rapists in their ranks?
5
Dear NYT,
It has become increasingly apparent to me that your readership does not understand several points germane to this article:
1. the definition of sexual assault
2. that criminal and university investigations are not mutually exclusive
3. that expulsion from university is not deprivation of liberty
If you are going to continue to publish news articles and opinion pieces regarding the administrations's position on Title IX, please make this information clear. By refusing to do so, you are enabling repugnant misogynists and contributing to the problem of an uninformed electorate.
It has become increasingly apparent to me that your readership does not understand several points germane to this article:
1. the definition of sexual assault
2. that criminal and university investigations are not mutually exclusive
3. that expulsion from university is not deprivation of liberty
If you are going to continue to publish news articles and opinion pieces regarding the administrations's position on Title IX, please make this information clear. By refusing to do so, you are enabling repugnant misogynists and contributing to the problem of an uninformed electorate.
4
The 50.1% standard cited is a called a preponderance of the evidence, which is the standard of evidentiary proof in civil actions. The most severe univeristy-imposed punishment for a student found to have committed on-campus sexual assault is explusion, which is less than a civil penalty of financial damages. No one has a legal right to earn a degree from a particular university. Explusion from a university, unlike incarceration or civil damages, does not deprive a sex offender of rights to liberty or property. Thus, this standard of evidence is appropriate in a university setting.
That said, I agree that victims should report assaults to the police and avail themselves of civil remedies against perpetrators and, if appropriate, Greek-system organizations and universities that aid and abet perpetrators' illegal acts of violence.
That said, I agree that victims should report assaults to the police and avail themselves of civil remedies against perpetrators and, if appropriate, Greek-system organizations and universities that aid and abet perpetrators' illegal acts of violence.
2
Your unilateral detetmination that expulsion cannot rise to the level of an,award for money damages is preposterous. The consequences of expulsion for sexual misconduct are lifelong; a decision that one owes a neighbor money for the encroachment of a tree, or a car accident, nowhere near so.
Moreover, are you really saying that because no one is "owed" a college degree, fundamental notions of due process do not apply? You are blinded by ideology.
Moreover, are you really saying that because no one is "owed" a college degree, fundamental notions of due process do not apply? You are blinded by ideology.
13
I would love to hear Joe Biden's point of view on this. NYT, can you interview him?
3
Sorry. They should be tried by the University. If not there then they probably won't go to court. The rapist will not go to jail and the punishment is the same as the punishment for cheating. It will not ruin the boy's life but it might save the girls. I'm ashamed of the New York Times. Get the whole picture not just the patriarchal one. How about a nice feminine shirt with Innocent on it for the girl.
1
I hate to find myself in agreement with the current administration about anything. But I had a star male student, a San Francisco liberal raised by a lesbian couple, one of the most sensitive, socially conscious, and empathetic students I've ever met, accused of sexual assault by a female student. They were drinking beer in full view of a group of friends. *Every single witness* testified that he didn't do anything, and the police investigated and found him innocent of any wrongdoing. Nevertheless, the school's Title IX policy damned him, and he was sentenced to many hours of public service, and denied entry to campus except to attend classes. I hate to say it as a totally committed feminist, but Title IX has gone too far.
19
Eight semesters that can include statistics, organic chem, German lit, and LSAT prep, just for fun, are hard enough without throwing gasoline on a fire, and by gasoline I mean alcohol, and by fire I mean fraternities and mixed gender housing. If I had a college-age daughter I'd be looking for the sexual assault version of the Signal 30 film. While we grapple with fair policy solutions for repercussions, I wish those of us who've seen the underbelly of college life would put more stress on prevention, which is not a dirty word.
3
It is deeply disingenuous of the New York Times to publish this very well-known rape apologist and anti-feminist without describing who exactly she is and her goal to erase rape as a criminal offense.
3
The most interesting feature of the new standards for sexual assault, evidence thereof and the standard of proof was how promulgated in the form of a "Dear Colleague" letter, not a Regulation that would have had the force of law.
The reason why is simple. The Department of Education knew that such a regulation would be challenged in court and promptly struck down with the judge loudly questioning whether the drafters had graduated from law school
The reason why is simple. The Department of Education knew that such a regulation would be challenged in court and promptly struck down with the judge loudly questioning whether the drafters had graduated from law school
9
Short sweet and to the point John.. Best comment I've seen. As a survivor, an attorney and mother of a falsely accused college son whose live was nearly derailed and the stigma of the accusation alone life changing I appreciate that rational people get this.. Thank you
8
This is right. Universities handling of sexual misconduct is a joke. A. Joke.
I know of what I speak.
There are campus officers with questionable competence performing, essentially, the actions of police, judge, and jury.
It is ridiculous.
I've heard clearly doctored recordings accepted as evidence because the "investigator" doesn't have the sophistication to recognize the indications of the tampering, I've watched defendants blatant lies be accepted with equal weight as complaintants clearly honest testimony.
Rather than punishment in many cases, a more inclusive equity-centered form of resolution should be instituted.
In most cases, counseling without a disciplinary component would be a better way to resolve the situation.
Two students have drunken sex, later one of them regrets it, sorry, that isn't rape. Not unless one of them was coerced, resistant, or forced, it just isn't.
And in cases of rape or whenever the law is violated, the school should assist the police, that is all, until after the investigation and trial are over. Perhaps temporary suspension or some form of method to separate the two people.
The current system is broke.
I don't like DeVoss, but they are right on this.
I know of what I speak.
There are campus officers with questionable competence performing, essentially, the actions of police, judge, and jury.
It is ridiculous.
I've heard clearly doctored recordings accepted as evidence because the "investigator" doesn't have the sophistication to recognize the indications of the tampering, I've watched defendants blatant lies be accepted with equal weight as complaintants clearly honest testimony.
Rather than punishment in many cases, a more inclusive equity-centered form of resolution should be instituted.
In most cases, counseling without a disciplinary component would be a better way to resolve the situation.
Two students have drunken sex, later one of them regrets it, sorry, that isn't rape. Not unless one of them was coerced, resistant, or forced, it just isn't.
And in cases of rape or whenever the law is violated, the school should assist the police, that is all, until after the investigation and trial are over. Perhaps temporary suspension or some form of method to separate the two people.
The current system is broke.
I don't like DeVoss, but they are right on this.
18
Universities should write and enforce their disciplinary policies in ways that reduce campus sexual assault. Read John Krakauer’s Missoula to understand the difference between coming up against a university’s disciplinary policy and being tried in a court of law. Here’s the kind of alcohol and sexual assault policy I’d like to see in university disciplinary codes. It’s time we start teaching young people to act responsibly.
“If there's a complaint that you assaulted somebody while either or both of you were intoxicated, you will be assumed to be in violation of the school’s sexual violence policy unless you can prove otherwise. This is not a court of law and we do not ajudicate criminal cases. This is a school disciplinary code designed to discourage campus sexual assault and provide maximum protection for sexual assault victims on campus. Studies show that the vast majority of sexual assault accusations are true. To reduce the already small risk of being unfairly accused of sexual assault, we recommend staying sober and limiting sexual encounters to trusted partners.”
“If there's a complaint that you assaulted somebody while either or both of you were intoxicated, you will be assumed to be in violation of the school’s sexual violence policy unless you can prove otherwise. This is not a court of law and we do not ajudicate criminal cases. This is a school disciplinary code designed to discourage campus sexual assault and provide maximum protection for sexual assault victims on campus. Studies show that the vast majority of sexual assault accusations are true. To reduce the already small risk of being unfairly accused of sexual assault, we recommend staying sober and limiting sexual encounters to trusted partners.”
1
"It’s time we start teaching young people to act responsibly."
How about teaching young women not to falsely accuse? Women have no accountability. Men receive 63% longer sentencing than women for the same crimes.
How about teaching young women not to falsely accuse? Women have no accountability. Men receive 63% longer sentencing than women for the same crimes.
8
This piece strikes me as taking a very sensible and balanced tone, so I will consider seriously the points made here.
5
Sexual intercourse forced on you by a "friend" or "date," non-consensual sex because drugs and alcohol preceded sex, predatory abuse of children and predatory stranger rape are all rape crimes but are not equivalent situations. I don't know what the answer is to how to adjudicate cases legally. What I do know is that everyone should educate themselves about the age dependent effects of neurotransmitters and age related brain development. Young people are primed by nature to reproduce and trusting each other to not be affected by nature is not a good strategy on a casual date where drinks are being served. I speak as a child-hood predation victim whose life was pretty much ruined by the OLD system of always blaming girls to keep boys from having their lives ruined.
2
During my graduate studies at a top-ranked college (i.e. top 5 in the world), even before all this brouhaha about college rape, I was accused of sexual harassment by my dorm neighbor (with whom I had very little contact aside from occasional meetings in the kitchen or hallway). Following the accusation - and without once questioning me or even examining the 'evidence' - I was warned and threatened by the Dean. Of course my first reaction was of extreme surprise (I had had many consensual sexual encounters in college, but never once considered my dorm neighbor of any interest) and outright denial. But the college persisted. And then I pointed out some of her absurd allegations (i.e. I looked at 'funny' or I would have loud sex on purpose to make her jealous) - and suggested they investigate her. Finally the college relented and did just that - and came to the conclusion that she was quite unbalanced (that she had a established pattern of strange behavior around exam time - anything to get a deferral).
There must be a fairer and even-handed way of handling such matters - devastating to both the victim and accused notwithstanding guilt or innocence.
There must be a fairer and even-handed way of handling such matters - devastating to both the victim and accused notwithstanding guilt or innocence.
13
Once again lots of comments are saying rape should be tried in the courts, not on campus. Great idea BUT that means the cops, prosecutors and judges have to change how they deal with rape. As it stands now, all to often cops blow off rape victims, prosecutors don't want to take the cases because they have such a dismal conviction rate compared to petty drug crimes and they don't think victims have a case if they are drunk, and judges sentence star swimmers to joke sentences. If a case does go through, it takes many months to years. In the meantime, a student has to see their rapist in the cafeteria, in the dorm, in class, etc. We are doing a horrible job in the courts, way worse than what the schools are doing.
2
"As it stands now, all to often cops blow off rape victims"
There is NO evidence of this. None. This is a feminist myth, spread through fear mongering. Everybody keeps repeating it in order to scare women away from going to the police, and choosing the "parallel justice system" of college kangaroo courts instead.
There is NO evidence of this. None. This is a feminist myth, spread through fear mongering. Everybody keeps repeating it in order to scare women away from going to the police, and choosing the "parallel justice system" of college kangaroo courts instead.
6
Fix the process, and fix the reporting. If I believed there was a really a 1-in-4 or 1-in-5 chance of my daughter being traumatized by a sexual assaulted on a college campus, she would be attending an all-female school as a commuter. However, no one really really believes those statistics.
9
Another thought: There is not a single woman I know (I'm in my forties) who has not, sometime in her life, participated in a sexual 'event' that they later felt wasn't such a good idea. While many women I know (and that all of us know) have been sexually assaulted, there is a very big difference between feeling sorry that you went to bed with someone after a few too many glasses of wine, and being raped or sexually assaulted.
As I wrote below: everyone needs to take responsibility for their own behavior, and not blame other people for their own lack of judgement. Of course, this doesn't apply to actual assault. But it does apply to the 'I wish I hadn't done that' school of encounters.
As I wrote below: everyone needs to take responsibility for their own behavior, and not blame other people for their own lack of judgement. Of course, this doesn't apply to actual assault. But it does apply to the 'I wish I hadn't done that' school of encounters.
13
"everyone needs to take responsibility for their own behavior"
Women don't. They can simply accuse men and get away with it even when they admit to lying. Seriously, a woman at Auburn University admitted to making it up, but the school expelled the man anyway. She did not face any consequences whatsoever.
Women don't. They can simply accuse men and get away with it even when they admit to lying. Seriously, a woman at Auburn University admitted to making it up, but the school expelled the man anyway. She did not face any consequences whatsoever.
3
If colleges are going to take on the issue of sexual assault on campus they are going to have to deal with the issue of false claims. If a student falsely accuses another of such a heinous crime, will the slandering student be punished? Is there ANY recourse for those falsely accused? And to those who say this would discourage the reporting of rape (undoubtedly under-reported), will there be NO punishment for false accusations? That doesn't seem right.
13
There are two drunken college students, and one attempts intimacy and the other goes along. Are they both responsible (or equally irresponsible), or is the one attempting intimacy taking advantage of the other? It seems that guilt and regret about sex resulting from impaired judgment have a bearing on whether something is considered assault. If one is too drunk to reasonably consent, then it's possible that the other is too drunk to reasonably determine consent. It gets complicated.
6
"guilt and regret about sex" is extremely asymmetrical because of evolution. Men evolved to deal with "casual sex" and be fine. Women did not. These are the consequences of the "sexual liberation."
1
Colleges are ill-equipped to handle instances or accusations of sexual assault/abuse. These cases should be referred to the police. And absolutely, expulsion is a ridiculous consequence of guilt.
3
Betsy DeVos is not right, and either is author Cathy Young.
Young is libertarian- which is to be an honorary male- and DeVos is republican, another way to be male and hierarchical. I would have an explanation for a democrat with the same opinion: unfortunately, this becomes another way to do a political dance of appeasement for all our dear "leaders." Rape is a crime of violence and power that it is constantly excused in a society that doesn't care whether males or females are raped. Rape is a hate crime, and the penalties should be increased.
Young is libertarian- which is to be an honorary male- and DeVos is republican, another way to be male and hierarchical. I would have an explanation for a democrat with the same opinion: unfortunately, this becomes another way to do a political dance of appeasement for all our dear "leaders." Rape is a crime of violence and power that it is constantly excused in a society that doesn't care whether males or females are raped. Rape is a hate crime, and the penalties should be increased.
2
Penalties should also be increased regarding highly frequent false accusations.
6
A well balanced discussion of the need for appropriate due process in the campus sexual misconduct discipline process. With the right standard, due process safeguards, and removal of inflammatory rhetoric it may be possible for colleges to handle these campus related issues. It certainly does not help the issue when anyone advocating for proper due process is called a rape denier and a proponent of rape culture. There are many college males falsely accused today. This benefits neither the accused nor the accuser. Rape is a terrible crime. Unfortunately, on college campuses today, anything from an unwelcome kiss to brutal assault is lumped under the same process.
We need to find a better process to address the risk and correct the problem.
We need to find a better process to address the risk and correct the problem.
5
Perhaps all sexual assault cases should be required to be investigated by law enforcement rather than the schools. Law enforcement can decide if criminal charges are warranted and act accordingly. Criminal charges tend to be a lot more lasting then being expelled.
For far too long young men have gotten away with sexual assault with impunity. Boys will be boys and victim shaming allowed this type of behavior to fester for far too long. Women are no longer willing to be victims and men should take note and act accordingly.
For far too long young men have gotten away with sexual assault with impunity. Boys will be boys and victim shaming allowed this type of behavior to fester for far too long. Women are no longer willing to be victims and men should take note and act accordingly.
1
Rape and sexual assault are crimes. They should be charged and adjudicated by the legal system. Universities are not the proper venue for adjudicating criminal culpability.
If a student has been charged with a sexual offense by either a grand jury indictment or a prosecutor's information, that student should at the least be suspended from attending classes until the case has been adjudicated. If a university allows a student who has been charged after the case has passed prosecutorial or grand jury scrutiny, and that student assaults another student, or harasses or intimidates his original victim, the university can and should be on the hook for negligence and damages.
And it really would be sensible for universities to discourage alcohol and encourage students to use marijuana instead, a beneficial medicinal plant substance that does not cause drunkenness, violence, aggression, stupidity, or the lowering of inhibitions by depressing frontal lobe activity the way alcohol does. Seriously, alcohol is a cellular toxin, a poison, why not encourage something safer?
If a student has been charged with a sexual offense by either a grand jury indictment or a prosecutor's information, that student should at the least be suspended from attending classes until the case has been adjudicated. If a university allows a student who has been charged after the case has passed prosecutorial or grand jury scrutiny, and that student assaults another student, or harasses or intimidates his original victim, the university can and should be on the hook for negligence and damages.
And it really would be sensible for universities to discourage alcohol and encourage students to use marijuana instead, a beneficial medicinal plant substance that does not cause drunkenness, violence, aggression, stupidity, or the lowering of inhibitions by depressing frontal lobe activity the way alcohol does. Seriously, alcohol is a cellular toxin, a poison, why not encourage something safer?
2
I have yet to see anyone give a convincing explanation for why a college student (or, in some cases, a professor) deserves significantly less rights in their defense than any other American.
8
When both are drunk, there's no assailant to blame. Both and/or neither of you had the capacity to form intent. There are real issues here that need to be resolved. Likewise for statutory cases where there IS reason to think it was unknowing - where there was no reason to question the age of the younger party.
4
I think it's always been standard operating procedure for principled men to stop, when a woman says no. It's also been standard procedure to have to make the initial move and rely upon the woman to make her acceptance, or at least acquiescence, clear.
Increasingly, though (at least in academic circles), the burden has moved from "no means no!" to "you may proceed only if you receive an affirmative, explicit 'yes'". This will require women to take far more ownership of their own sexual desires and assume the risk of rejection. Good. It was tiring always to have to be the one to put it out there.
Increasingly, though (at least in academic circles), the burden has moved from "no means no!" to "you may proceed only if you receive an affirmative, explicit 'yes'". This will require women to take far more ownership of their own sexual desires and assume the risk of rejection. Good. It was tiring always to have to be the one to put it out there.
2
Rape is not a violation of gender equality - it is not a Title Nine issue. Rape is a crime, and should be in the hands of the police and the justice system. Wringing hands over why universities don't handle this correctly is a dangerous waste of time.
10
I can't believe that the top responses are all some version of "she should go to the police." Just ask the ones who did. They are questioned about their past sexual history, what they were wearing when raped, how much they had to drink, how long had they known the accused rapist, etc. All of which information (none of which is really relevant) is really put into a file which is then ignored for at least a year. Many victims report feeling almost as violated by the police (who rarely take these accusations seriously) as by their rapist.
Read any article about the Title IX lawsuit against Baylor, or the "investigation" into the accusations against Jaimas Winston. These investigations, shoddy as they were, were actually better than most police investigations of campus rape. The rapee is far more likely than the rapist to face threats, intimidation, outright hostility, and even physical harm. Police officers believe that most rapes are just
angry women who are trying to make trouble for some poor man. The fact that less than 3% of all rapes reported are false doesn't matter to them in the slightest. Just think of the hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits sitting in storage - and the fact that when Ohio finally tested all of them, they found that nearly half of all rapes were committed by serial rapists. How many rape kits do you think they even bothered to perform on college students ?
Read any article about the Title IX lawsuit against Baylor, or the "investigation" into the accusations against Jaimas Winston. These investigations, shoddy as they were, were actually better than most police investigations of campus rape. The rapee is far more likely than the rapist to face threats, intimidation, outright hostility, and even physical harm. Police officers believe that most rapes are just
angry women who are trying to make trouble for some poor man. The fact that less than 3% of all rapes reported are false doesn't matter to them in the slightest. Just think of the hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits sitting in storage - and the fact that when Ohio finally tested all of them, they found that nearly half of all rapes were committed by serial rapists. How many rape kits do you think they even bothered to perform on college students ?
2
Title IX investigations on campus are not perfect, but local police departments in college towns often cannot handle the investigations, especially when dealing with locally famous athletes. DeVos is getting close to giving drunken men cover for abuse. The reality is that college towns, and the greater society, should not turn their heads to collegiate binge drinking and the results of such actions. DeVos's "investigation" could lead to colleges looking the other way on bad behavior, which is what colleges did for the majority of American history.
In response to a commenter below: Women don't know you're a non-predator. Please don't take their very valid concerns personally. Please try to sympathize more with victims of sexual assault and less with men who don't get some sort of required niceness from girls that may be wary of their intentions.
His full statement: "Making my way to Downtown DC one evening last fall, the metro failed and I had to catch a ride-share around George Mason University. I shared the ride with three college aged women. As the only male in the car, their contempt and distrust of me was palpable. Mind you, I'm a middle aged gay man and was meeting my husband and friends for dinner, so assault of the women was not, in anyway, part of my fantasy calculus. I remember thinking that being a straight college aged male must be fraught with pitfalls and downright difficult."
His full statement: "Making my way to Downtown DC one evening last fall, the metro failed and I had to catch a ride-share around George Mason University. I shared the ride with three college aged women. As the only male in the car, their contempt and distrust of me was palpable. Mind you, I'm a middle aged gay man and was meeting my husband and friends for dinner, so assault of the women was not, in anyway, part of my fantasy calculus. I remember thinking that being a straight college aged male must be fraught with pitfalls and downright difficult."
4
Part of the problem here is an attempt to broaden the definition of rape far beyond what most people think of as rape. It's a long way from someone using force, or forcing themselves on an unconscious or nearly so victim -- what most people think of as rape -- to any sex with someone who's been drinking being claimed as rape because they couldn't possibly have consented. That attempt to expand the definition of rape is where most of the controversy lies.
The media help this along by lumping together many different sex acts other than rape, and some that barely qualify as sex acts, as "sexual assault." Readers got it when "sexual assault" was a euphemism for rape, so the victim's dignity was protected in print a little bit. The term is now used, though, to take in everything from being rubbed against in public -- annoying and illegal -- to being beaten almost to death and raped. One is much, much more of a violation than the other, though both are violations. They are not treated equally under the law, nor should they be.
It's a bit like lumping together murder and being intentionally bumped or shoved as merely different forms of (non-sexual) "assault," all of which deserve equally harsh punishment. If newspapers used the term "assault" like they now use the term "sexual assault,' it would be very difficult to know even approximately what happened, and perhaps whether your "assaulted" neighbor was still with us.
The media help this along by lumping together many different sex acts other than rape, and some that barely qualify as sex acts, as "sexual assault." Readers got it when "sexual assault" was a euphemism for rape, so the victim's dignity was protected in print a little bit. The term is now used, though, to take in everything from being rubbed against in public -- annoying and illegal -- to being beaten almost to death and raped. One is much, much more of a violation than the other, though both are violations. They are not treated equally under the law, nor should they be.
It's a bit like lumping together murder and being intentionally bumped or shoved as merely different forms of (non-sexual) "assault," all of which deserve equally harsh punishment. If newspapers used the term "assault" like they now use the term "sexual assault,' it would be very difficult to know even approximately what happened, and perhaps whether your "assaulted" neighbor was still with us.
2
It is naive to think that justice would be better served if the criminal justice system was involved. The court systems are overburden as it is and it can take years to come to trial. Also, a publicity seeking prosecutor in a high profile case will often put his/her interests in obtaining a conviction ahead of insuring the defendant has a fair trial.
1
Kudo to Betsy DeVos and the Trump administration.
While I'm no fan of the Trump administration, the highly politicized exceedingly dangerous path that cultural Marxism leads us threatens free speech, due process and the very tenets of Western civilization and democracy.
Academics are the among the most egregious perpetrators and to empower these very same people - many of who have a political ax to grind - with the power to destroy a person's life because he fits the profile of the entitled ruling elite is eerily similar to the Stalinist show trials and kulak hatred that made a mockery of justice and due process during the 1930's.
Thank you Betsy for standing up for the young white male who in some quarters are openly targeted as "privileged" perpetrators of Western imperialist racism and thereby guilty on the basis of little more than their gender, race, religion and ethnic heritage.
Its time to stop the madness.
While I'm no fan of the Trump administration, the highly politicized exceedingly dangerous path that cultural Marxism leads us threatens free speech, due process and the very tenets of Western civilization and democracy.
Academics are the among the most egregious perpetrators and to empower these very same people - many of who have a political ax to grind - with the power to destroy a person's life because he fits the profile of the entitled ruling elite is eerily similar to the Stalinist show trials and kulak hatred that made a mockery of justice and due process during the 1930's.
Thank you Betsy for standing up for the young white male who in some quarters are openly targeted as "privileged" perpetrators of Western imperialist racism and thereby guilty on the basis of little more than their gender, race, religion and ethnic heritage.
Its time to stop the madness.
6
Being kicked out of school is a whole lot different than going to jail. The standard of proof can be lower for expulsion, rather than a felony and jail sentence. These boards were established precisely because too often it becomes a he said-she said case, which can't be proven in a court of law. Based on interviews with the parties, the school can decide if one of both of the students conducted themselves within student behavior policy, and whether they should remain as part of the student body. These cases need to be handled confidentially, because they do not offer the safeguards and high bar built into our justice system.
1
This is precisely the point and the problem. Campuses, in the interests of promoting a particularly appealing version of `guilt', will relax standards of evidence so that a decision can be arrived at that comports with a particular point of view. Once upon the time, that point of view on campuses accommodated the 'boys will be boys' narrative. Now it proceeds from the premise that allegation is tantamount to guilt. Allegations of criminal behavior, and consequences based on such allegations, need to be based upon adjudication in a venue that respects all aspects of due process. Anything less than that standard is a miscarriage of justice.
7
I always found this policy absurd that colleges and universities were the authoritative power to investigate sexual assaults.
Unless theses intuitions have a significant, highly qualified staffed to investigate within the boundaries of the law, their only focus needs to be contacting local authorities and providing a safe environment and the best education they can offer, not legal criminal matters.
Unless theses intuitions have a significant, highly qualified staffed to investigate within the boundaries of the law, their only focus needs to be contacting local authorities and providing a safe environment and the best education they can offer, not legal criminal matters.
2
Do you think the justice system is inclined to think of expulsion as a sufficient penalty for sexual assault? I don't know, I'm just wondering. If expulsion is as serious a penalty as people seem to think here in the comments, is it possible that people involved with he case in the justice system—judges, jurors, etc.—might think so too?
If so then having universities investigate sexual assault cases is dangerous. A really bad idea. Perhaps the university should wait until guilt or innocence is determined by a court before considering a student's punishment under their policies.
In the time period between the assault and the verdict I think the primary concern should be to protect the alleged victim—it should always be biased this way. So the perpetrator could be slapped with restraining orders or whatever in order to do that while the decisions are being made.
If so then having universities investigate sexual assault cases is dangerous. A really bad idea. Perhaps the university should wait until guilt or innocence is determined by a court before considering a student's punishment under their policies.
In the time period between the assault and the verdict I think the primary concern should be to protect the alleged victim—it should always be biased this way. So the perpetrator could be slapped with restraining orders or whatever in order to do that while the decisions are being made.
1
You cannot correct past injustices to one party by means of current injustices to the other party. The only acceptable goal is, simply, justice. We are, however, witness to the challenges faced by the self-consciously empowered, as they strive to be just towards those toward whom they are aggrieved.
We live in interesting times, things could go in almost any direction.
We live in interesting times, things could go in almost any direction.
2
Other readers have asked why an alleged rape is not reported to the police first, rather than campus police. Good question.
Another facet of the issue is the ability of a school administration to conceal assaults, thefts and other crimes because they only involve campus police. When prospective students and parents visit a school, they need the unvarnished truth about violence, predatory behavior and crime in the school and surroundings.
Another facet of the issue is the ability of a school administration to conceal assaults, thefts and other crimes because they only involve campus police. When prospective students and parents visit a school, they need the unvarnished truth about violence, predatory behavior and crime in the school and surroundings.
1
The rule of law is not subdivided or subverted by any classification except "citizen." Justice is blind to identity, and there should be no "female" due process. Also, prosecutorial coaching of a complainant is just as harmful when it happens on a campus as when it happens elsewhere. If your prof tells you there's a 'separate' and gender-based way of defining rights for women, or adjudicating any dispute, ironically, she helps elect the Donald Trumps.
2
I know little about this subject. The position taken by the writer seems correct to me. What struck me was the statement that this "is not a fringe or right wing issue. In recent years, such concerns have also been voiced by a number of liberals and progressives, including feminists".
I guess I'm more progressive than not, but whatever my persuasion I can evaluate a position on its merits, regardless of which groups support it. If no single progressive group or individual agreed with this point of view, it would be just as valid. Observation of modern society teaches us that the right answer cannot be found by counting hands, unfortunately. And part of our problem is that we demonize each other. The implication here is that the fact that an argument is coming from conservative voices weakens it in some people's minds. I don't think this is what we want.
I guess I'm more progressive than not, but whatever my persuasion I can evaluate a position on its merits, regardless of which groups support it. If no single progressive group or individual agreed with this point of view, it would be just as valid. Observation of modern society teaches us that the right answer cannot be found by counting hands, unfortunately. And part of our problem is that we demonize each other. The implication here is that the fact that an argument is coming from conservative voices weakens it in some people's minds. I don't think this is what we want.
6
I never thought, in my wildest dreams, I would agree with any position/initiative of a Trump appointee. And here I find myself doing so.
9
In general, due process requires a more rigorous standard of proof, such as clear and convincing, to the extent that the reliability of the results of the proceeding is undermined by the lack of other procedural safeguards, such as the right to be represented by an attorney, prehearing discovery, appear at the hearing and cross examine witnesses for the prosecution, a written final determination, and postjudgment review. If the university declines to invest sufficiently in the administrative factfinding process to provide these basic safeguards, then the least that it will be required to provide is a more rigorous standard of proof than a preponderance of the evidence.
2
Cathy Young does a disservice to all by simplifying a complex legal and emotional debate.
Title IX is civil rights legislation. Schools must ensure a safe learning environment for all students, not just for male students, or straight students, or gender conforming students, for example. Just as in the workplace, if a school learns that there's a possible violation of its sexual misconduct policy, it must investigate and remedy the situation if necessary. That's true regardless of whether the code violation might also constitute criminal activity.
So "common sense" solutions calling for withdrawing DoE guidance or changing the standard of proof are recipes for chaos. Sexual misconduct covers a spectrum of behaviors; not all are criminal offenses. Do we use a clear and convincing standard for adjudicating some types of sexual misconduct but not others? Who decides?
Sexual violence cases are often nuanced. Sometimes victims won't lodge a complaint with the police for many reasons, or even want the alleged perpetrator punished. They just want to continue their education in safety, without further harassment, retaliation, or having to share classes with their attacker.
Most agree that schools can do a better job adjudicating sexual misconduct complaints. The DoE should provide more detailed guidance, not less, and offer training and technical assistance to schools so that proceedings are fair, impartial, and respect due process for the accuser and accused.
Title IX is civil rights legislation. Schools must ensure a safe learning environment for all students, not just for male students, or straight students, or gender conforming students, for example. Just as in the workplace, if a school learns that there's a possible violation of its sexual misconduct policy, it must investigate and remedy the situation if necessary. That's true regardless of whether the code violation might also constitute criminal activity.
So "common sense" solutions calling for withdrawing DoE guidance or changing the standard of proof are recipes for chaos. Sexual misconduct covers a spectrum of behaviors; not all are criminal offenses. Do we use a clear and convincing standard for adjudicating some types of sexual misconduct but not others? Who decides?
Sexual violence cases are often nuanced. Sometimes victims won't lodge a complaint with the police for many reasons, or even want the alleged perpetrator punished. They just want to continue their education in safety, without further harassment, retaliation, or having to share classes with their attacker.
Most agree that schools can do a better job adjudicating sexual misconduct complaints. The DoE should provide more detailed guidance, not less, and offer training and technical assistance to schools so that proceedings are fair, impartial, and respect due process for the accuser and accused.
10
As a person who endured sexual misconduct at a time when universities offered training to their women students in "how not to get raped" without offering their men students training in "how to not rape," and who, many years later, served as a campus liaison for people (regardless of gender) who experienced sexual harassment from someone else on campus, I very much appreciate this comment. After reading the article I was composing in my mind a response to include mandated safe learning/safe work environments, behaviors that are not criminal but are sexual misconduct, and the data available about why harassment and misconduct is severely UNDER-reported on campuses. But I don't have to, now. Thank you again.
5
I agree that sexual assault is a nuanced issue. Which is why Universities are so ill-equipped to adjudicate it. University legal departments are used to dealing with disputes over tenure, intellectual property, real estate, etc. To have quasi-criminal proceedings that are "fair, impartial, and respect due process" for both sides, you need to abide by rules that have been developed over centuries in the courts -- rules of evidence, confrontation of witnesses, independent legal representation of the accused. Who is going to pay for all that? And WHY -- when it already exists? I have friends in university legal departments and they are overwhelmed with these cases. If there is a substantial punishment imposed, such as expulsion, the University gets sued. More $$ that could be used on education down the drain. It has turned into a quagmire, and a very expensive one at that.
I would say a victim has to be required to make a police report. It shouldn't be optional. If the police decline to prosecute, the university can take a second look and decide if there is sufficient evidence to pursue an academic remedy, but the preponderance standard is too low. And if two people are drunk, neither can consent, in which case the assaults cancel each other out. These changes at a minimum should be required.
I would say a victim has to be required to make a police report. It shouldn't be optional. If the police decline to prosecute, the university can take a second look and decide if there is sufficient evidence to pursue an academic remedy, but the preponderance standard is too low. And if two people are drunk, neither can consent, in which case the assaults cancel each other out. These changes at a minimum should be required.
2
Yes, the school must guarantee a safe environment for students. Obviously, the only way to do that is to keep males and females separate in separate schools.. Short of that, since alcohol is usually the facilitating factor in most campus rapes, the schools must prohibit any student from drinking alcohol,the penalty being expulsion.
I disagree that *any* effort to combat "binge drinking" should be applauded. This normally means sanctions if not jail for 20-year-olds caught sipping a lite beer. Now if the effort includes teaching adolescents how to drink moderately as in southern Europe instead of blitzing a keg because they found their one chance to drink under this MADD-imposed young adult prohibition scheme, I'll applaud that.
3
Both women and men are, among other things, sexual beings with agency.
We dismantled the structures in society that artificially made women economically dependent on men in order to lead a mainstream reasonably comfortable life. (More complex reasons for family formation don't seem to work as well for the working class; perhaps men have long term value beyond their wallets and we should say so; but that's another topic.) So women's sexuality is no longer governed by that blunt former maxim of everyday life "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"
And so I don't see why there should be any differences in presumption, based on gender, when it comes to questions of consent; or who has responsibility to assure there is clarity regarding consent; or who has responsibility regarding the well-being of themselves and their sexual partner. Responsibility is equal and shared.
Equality means just that. It's infuriating and sometimes terrifying that any group of people would pick and choose between the old ways and the new in ways that advantage or disadvantage either side in a tiresome war of girls against the boys.
We dismantled the structures in society that artificially made women economically dependent on men in order to lead a mainstream reasonably comfortable life. (More complex reasons for family formation don't seem to work as well for the working class; perhaps men have long term value beyond their wallets and we should say so; but that's another topic.) So women's sexuality is no longer governed by that blunt former maxim of everyday life "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"
And so I don't see why there should be any differences in presumption, based on gender, when it comes to questions of consent; or who has responsibility to assure there is clarity regarding consent; or who has responsibility regarding the well-being of themselves and their sexual partner. Responsibility is equal and shared.
Equality means just that. It's infuriating and sometimes terrifying that any group of people would pick and choose between the old ways and the new in ways that advantage or disadvantage either side in a tiresome war of girls against the boys.
10
It seems school administrators have an inherent bias that women are promiscuous. Since when were men the innocent ones?
1
A man with multiple sex partners is a "roué" but a woman is "promiscuous". A male sexual adventurer is "a man of the world" but a woman enjoying her sexuality without guilt, fear, or shame is "a pushover"; "round-heeled"; "a whore".
Do you begin to see the problem yet?
When calling a man a "womanizer" carries as much pejorative punch as calling a woman a "slut", then I'll believe we're making progress.
Do you begin to see the problem yet?
When calling a man a "womanizer" carries as much pejorative punch as calling a woman a "slut", then I'll believe we're making progress.
Quite the contrary. Most college administrators these days view men as violent and predatory. By contrast, "women dont lie about [rape/sexual assault/leers]!" Except that sometimes, they do.
3
What I meant to write in my other comment is, the headline that asserts first that Betsy DeVos is right, is misleading, is "broken." Betsy DeVos represents an administration that believes you can grab women by their private parts and suffer no consequences except some perverse pleasure. There are problems with how campuses handle sexual assault, however, eradicating the problem through education and other sensible approaches should take first priority, and that means that college men need to learn to respect the women they date and meet. Women who have been raped always face an uphill battle to bring the rapist to justice. That culture will not change if we start portraying men as victims. Statistics show that false reporting is very rare.
6
But what is not rare are the scenarios reported here. They are not hard to find. Sorry, but the men in these stories are victims, of a system that tramples on our basic definitions of fairness and justice. Unless you say that men like these are collateral damage in the name of fighting rape, you need to join the call to improve the system.
4
This article brings to mind the NY Times own Title IX hysteria in their nonstop assault on former Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston for an alleged rape. Winston was never charged by police, not by prosecutors after careful review of evidence, not even at a title IX 50% hearing presided over by a retired state supreme court justice.
Anyone who read the facts as they were published could see that it was initially a case of regret=rape by a young woman who was part of a campus group whose objective was to have sex with an athlete (the "cleat chasers"), who changed her story multiple times and then tried to cash in on Winston's NFL contract, offering to drop all suits for $7,000,000.
The NY Times published at least a dozen articles attacking Winston and anyone else associated with the university, even sending a team to Tallahassee investigating traffic tickets that football players been given and publishing any lie that appeared on the internet, like Winston selling sports memorabilia or running back Karlos Williams beating up his girlfriend.
Hopefully the Times has recovered from this bout of Title IX hysteria and can get back to publishing real news.
Anyone who read the facts as they were published could see that it was initially a case of regret=rape by a young woman who was part of a campus group whose objective was to have sex with an athlete (the "cleat chasers"), who changed her story multiple times and then tried to cash in on Winston's NFL contract, offering to drop all suits for $7,000,000.
The NY Times published at least a dozen articles attacking Winston and anyone else associated with the university, even sending a team to Tallahassee investigating traffic tickets that football players been given and publishing any lie that appeared on the internet, like Winston selling sports memorabilia or running back Karlos Williams beating up his girlfriend.
Hopefully the Times has recovered from this bout of Title IX hysteria and can get back to publishing real news.
15
Ms. Young didn't have nearly enough space to show how schools mishandle these cases. Here's a doozy.
Occicental College found a man responsible for rape after the following, undisputed facts were uncovered:
1. A drunk woman texts to her friends her intent to have sex and also asked via text to the man to make sure he has condom.
2. She makes her way to his him herself and they proceed to have sex.
3. Friends check in on her during the act, and she tells them she is fine. They report to investigators it looked consensual to them and they had just had bystander intervention training.
4. Afterwards she texts her friend a smily face indicating she was fine.
5. She starts to have doubts, and is told by an activist professor that she was raped, but says she's not sure. The same professor says the man fits the profile of a rapist - upper income, athletic, popular. She eventually files a complaint.
7. Police investigate, and based on text message and witness statement find there's no crime.
8. On the other hand, the investigator hired by Occidental concludes both students were drunk, but only the male was required to ensure the woman could consent even though the investigator writes both of their judgement was likely impaired.
9. The school refused to consider whether he was a victim too and refused to let him to file a complaint.
He was expelled. Read all about it in this Esquire article:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a33751/occidental-justice-case/
Occicental College found a man responsible for rape after the following, undisputed facts were uncovered:
1. A drunk woman texts to her friends her intent to have sex and also asked via text to the man to make sure he has condom.
2. She makes her way to his him herself and they proceed to have sex.
3. Friends check in on her during the act, and she tells them she is fine. They report to investigators it looked consensual to them and they had just had bystander intervention training.
4. Afterwards she texts her friend a smily face indicating she was fine.
5. She starts to have doubts, and is told by an activist professor that she was raped, but says she's not sure. The same professor says the man fits the profile of a rapist - upper income, athletic, popular. She eventually files a complaint.
7. Police investigate, and based on text message and witness statement find there's no crime.
8. On the other hand, the investigator hired by Occidental concludes both students were drunk, but only the male was required to ensure the woman could consent even though the investigator writes both of their judgement was likely impaired.
9. The school refused to consider whether he was a victim too and refused to let him to file a complaint.
He was expelled. Read all about it in this Esquire article:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a33751/occidental-justice-case/
22
GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD: IF A PERSON IS INTOXICATED, THEY CANNOT LEGALLY GIVE CONSENT, THEREFORE ANY SEXUAL ACTIVITY THEY UNDERTAKE IS BY DEFINITION RAPE.
Dear God, why is this lesson so hard to get across?
You can't sign an enforceable contract when intoxicated; do you begin to see the connection between being compos mentis and actual agency in personal decisonmaking?
Dear God, why is this lesson so hard to get across?
You can't sign an enforceable contract when intoxicated; do you begin to see the connection between being compos mentis and actual agency in personal decisonmaking?
1
"Friends check in on her during the act, and she tells them she is fine."
No! That should be a crime. Why wasn't his body cam turned on?
Him: "How's that, good?"
Friend checks in.
Her: "No."
Friend leaves.
Him: "Is that better?"
Her: "That's much better!"
Friend calls rape crisis line to report RAPE.
Wow. College sounds pathetic.
No! That should be a crime. Why wasn't his body cam turned on?
Him: "How's that, good?"
Friend checks in.
Her: "No."
Friend leaves.
Him: "Is that better?"
Her: "That's much better!"
Friend calls rape crisis line to report RAPE.
Wow. College sounds pathetic.
Clearly you are not a lawyer. Having one drink leads to intoxication and under the law, people legally consent to sex and binding contracts all the time. Have you ever been to dinner with a romantic partner and had a glass or two of wine? 'nuff said.
Consent cannot be given if some is "incapacitated" under the law. But don't fret - your misunderstanding is far less pernicious than those who know the difference and still argue women can't give consent if they've had a drink.
Consent cannot be given if some is "incapacitated" under the law. But don't fret - your misunderstanding is far less pernicious than those who know the difference and still argue women can't give consent if they've had a drink.
2
There is a good reason "beyond a reasonable doubt' is and should be the standard in ALL cases. To protect the accused. That is more important than protecting feelings, or or making sure we have less rape. That is a fact.
9
Schools expel students who get drunk and set fire to waistbaskets in dorms. It's not rape, and it may or may not be illegal, but it's a major safety hazard. If it can't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law that no deliberate arson was intended, should these students get to stay? (And get drunk and, next time, burn the dorm down?)
2
Recall the proverbial stopped clock.
And that would be generous.
And that would be generous.
Though obligated by the Cleary Act to keep statistics of sexual violence on campus, universities have various way of reporting these stats and discussing them with their constituencies. We can't tackle any of the issues listed in the article until we get beyond these individual case studies. If you have a son, you are probably more likely to feel for the alleged abusers (men are over 90% of those). If you have a daughter, you are more likely to feel for the alleged victims (women are over 90% of those). The Dept. of Ed. should first and foremost create some standards of accountability in this regard and get good data. Then we can start talking about the likelihood of trumped up charges against alleged rapists. At my university, the number of sexual crimes reported by women that have men as the perpetrator far outnumber any other type of violent crime for half a decade now. There is one alleged rape that is being disputed in court. Out of over 200 reported in the past 5 years. A margin of error of less than .5%. Rapists who do not get reprimanded tend to become repeat offenders, and nobody is talking about that in this debate. So, less inflamed rhetoric and more reliable, transparently communicated and openly discussed numbers would be a good way to start educating ourselves about the extent of the problem of sexual violence on campus. it's there. it's big. it needs to be solved. but not this way.
4
If schools should take no action without a conviction, it follows that the Catholic Church was right to do nothing about Priests who were neither convicted nor ever even criminally charged. Preposterous. But that is what many here are arguing. They want Universities to behave like the Duggar parents, forcing victims and those who are not yet victimized to maintain association with someone they have been told is a molester or rapist.
As an employer, if one of my employees tells me he was raped by another, my business will and should suffer if I do nothing. If I require them to work together until law enforcement makes my personnel decisions for me, I'm not just a bad manager, I'm a bad human being. School administrations (like Bishops, Recording Studio Executives and Military Brass) need to stop being bad human beings.
As an employer, if one of my employees tells me he was raped by another, my business will and should suffer if I do nothing. If I require them to work together until law enforcement makes my personnel decisions for me, I'm not just a bad manager, I'm a bad human being. School administrations (like Bishops, Recording Studio Executives and Military Brass) need to stop being bad human beings.
11
The author tries to downplay the problems with anyone in the Trump administration brining this message by calling them an "imperfect messenger," but it's simply unavoidable. Anyone delivering the author's message must have some modicum of moral/ethical authority or at the very least a reputation for thoughtfulness and expertise. That means any representative of the Trump administration is already starting at a disadvantage.
The stakes are extremely high on this issue. It's not like a student accusing someone of cheating on an exam or getting caught stealing a book bag. Once an allegation of rape is made someone's life is almost certainly going to be changed forever. It is not fair to the victim, the accused, or the school to place the burden of judgment on an academic institution. They are just not equipped to adjudicate one of the single most egregious crimes for which we have a law.
A colleges responsibility in a rape case should be the same as in a murder case. Call the police and preserve all evidence if possible (including statements).
The stakes are extremely high on this issue. It's not like a student accusing someone of cheating on an exam or getting caught stealing a book bag. Once an allegation of rape is made someone's life is almost certainly going to be changed forever. It is not fair to the victim, the accused, or the school to place the burden of judgment on an academic institution. They are just not equipped to adjudicate one of the single most egregious crimes for which we have a law.
A colleges responsibility in a rape case should be the same as in a murder case. Call the police and preserve all evidence if possible (including statements).
8
Missing from this piece is the fact that colleges and universities do their damnedest to cover up incidents and accusations of sexual assault. And the reason why they do it is simple - sexual assault cases are really bad publicity. So they've developed these in house kangaroo court tribunals straight out of Alice in Wonderland (sentence first - verdict afterwards) to hear these cases. Meanwhile, they pressure accusers not to go to the police, with the implicit assurance that the system is rigged against the accused. That way, they can control the proceedings and keep the story from reaching the larger public. Lost in this process is that the school is either: a. letting a rapist off with a slap on the wrist and leaving him free to rape again, or b. expelling an innocent student and ruining his academic career. Neither of these outcomes are optimal for society or the students involved, but they are optimal for the school-the bad publicity stays hidden from view.
13
Empowering girls and women was perhaps the single most important social accomplishment of the 20th century, but the male-hating faction of feminism also did great damage by demonizing men. Millions of children and their fathers paid a very dear price when young mothers were encouraged to break up their families because 'women (and children) need a man like a fish needs a bicycle'. Academia and the left still operate with the core assumption that women are always victims and always tell the truth, while men are always guilty and deserve punishment. When feminists and campuses define rape as any unwelcome contact from a man, in the present or in hungover retrospect, women are encouraged to make accusations against which there is no defence. How does it affect a boy when society constantly tells him that he is a dangerous, regrettable relict of biology that is no longer relevant?
8
As the mother of a young man in college, I have been concerned that the pendulum is swinging from one extreme to the other. It seems now that when any girl points a finger, that's it: the boy is guilty. If two people are drunk, then why is everything the boy's fault? Sometimes, then you've had too much to drink, you simply don't remember the things you did the night before. But girls are being told that if they can't remember what they did, it's rape. I have stressed to my son that there should be no intimacy with a girl who has been drinking, and that young women sometimes regret decisions they made, and then start pointing fingers. Obviously, rapes happen on college campuses, but drunken sex is not usually rape and in these instances it's hard to see why girls have no responsibility for their actions.
28
The reality is that false reporting of rapes by women is rare. The best data is that fewer than 2% of rape reports turn out to be false, and these mostly involved teen girls whose parents would punish them for having sex.
Studies show that men believe that 50%, half, of all rape reports are fake; and too many women buy this myth. The belief that women are liars & deceivers goes back to The Malleus Maleficarum, a religious text from the Dark Ages that paints women as consorts of the devil who deserved to be burned at the stake.
Male hysteria over false reports is a facet of misogyny, paranoia over a non-reality. Male police & prosecutors have to approve rape reports before charges are filed and as a consequence, false rape cases are exceedingly rare. A man has less chance of being falsely accused of rape than he has of being struck by lightning or a meteorite.
The reality is opposite: rapists mostly go free. Women are not believed. Women do not report most rapes, knowing they will get no justice from the misogynistic legal system which has internalized the "women are deceivers" cultural myth. Look around you, at least 1 in 4 (and probably way more) of the women & girls you see have been raped or sexually assaulted -- most have not reported the crime because what would be the point? Rapists are rarely charged, convicted or imprisoned and a rapist has less than a 2% chance of ever seeing the inside of a prison cell.
How many rapes has Bill Cosby gotten away with?
Studies show that men believe that 50%, half, of all rape reports are fake; and too many women buy this myth. The belief that women are liars & deceivers goes back to The Malleus Maleficarum, a religious text from the Dark Ages that paints women as consorts of the devil who deserved to be burned at the stake.
Male hysteria over false reports is a facet of misogyny, paranoia over a non-reality. Male police & prosecutors have to approve rape reports before charges are filed and as a consequence, false rape cases are exceedingly rare. A man has less chance of being falsely accused of rape than he has of being struck by lightning or a meteorite.
The reality is opposite: rapists mostly go free. Women are not believed. Women do not report most rapes, knowing they will get no justice from the misogynistic legal system which has internalized the "women are deceivers" cultural myth. Look around you, at least 1 in 4 (and probably way more) of the women & girls you see have been raped or sexually assaulted -- most have not reported the crime because what would be the point? Rapists are rarely charged, convicted or imprisoned and a rapist has less than a 2% chance of ever seeing the inside of a prison cell.
How many rapes has Bill Cosby gotten away with?
4
Completely agree. Being raped and regretting a night are not the same thing. There has to avoid the molding of the two and keep both accountable for their actions.
3
Sexual assault and rape are serious crimes. The consequences are HUGE for all involved! Having "amateurs" in the shape of a faculty-student board determine guilt or innocence, especially with a ridiculously low standard of proof for such a serious accusation, is preposterous!
Rape accusations on campus should be handled the same way rape accusations off campus are handled. Call the police!! The regular justice system (though mightily flawed it is) is far better at handling this than amateur night in a university meeting room!
Rape accusations on campus should be handled the same way rape accusations off campus are handled. Call the police!! The regular justice system (though mightily flawed it is) is far better at handling this than amateur night in a university meeting room!
14
Do businesses keep accused rapists on the payroll sitting next to the person who reported the rape ? NO
4
Are you suggesting that people who are accused of something have done something wrong automatically? To be accused of rape in a judicial sense means to be formally charged in a court of law. That is quite different from being "accused" by one person of having done something. Conflating the two meanings is sophistry, and to point that out is not in any way to minimize the serious nature of rape, murder, kidnapping or any other crime. Even people who are formally charged receive the presumption of innocence. In the case of the Columbia University rape accusation by the woman who carried around a mattress, the male student was cleared by the university administrative proceedings and still he remained permanently accused and ostensibly guilty of something. (The school allowed her to carry the mattress when she received her diploma). Even Senator Gillenbrand from New York appeared with the accuser to endorse her accusation, and when the administrative proceeding (with its lower standard of proof) said the man she accused was not guilty Senator Gillenbrand remained silent. Surely she cannot think a man would vote for her without a clear explanation of the reasoning behind her actions.
3
The headline implies that Betsy DeVos, who supports men having more say about the sexual assaults they commit than their victims, is broken.
4
So if you run a business, and you thought that it was 50.1% likely that one of your employees sexually assaulted another, would you be wrong to fire that employee? If not, what would you say to the accuser, who might reasonably think that you're not taking their workplace safety seriously?
Is the employer-employee relationship any different than the student-university relationship? I mean, it is in one way in that the government gives a lot of universities money and has a lot of laws that regulate education differently than employment, like Title IX.
My take is that the issues are basically the same. You have an ongoing relationship with two people, and one of them accuses the other of sexual assault. How sure do you have to be to terminate the ongoing relationship with the accused? I take it you should if you're more than x% likely. I'm not quite sure what x is, but it's probably lower than the reasonable doubt standard in criminal law.
Is the employer-employee relationship any different than the student-university relationship? I mean, it is in one way in that the government gives a lot of universities money and has a lot of laws that regulate education differently than employment, like Title IX.
My take is that the issues are basically the same. You have an ongoing relationship with two people, and one of them accuses the other of sexual assault. How sure do you have to be to terminate the ongoing relationship with the accused? I take it you should if you're more than x% likely. I'm not quite sure what x is, but it's probably lower than the reasonable doubt standard in criminal law.
5
Agreed. The biggest problem with these cases, which the author ignores, is the way the proceedings are run. Typically, for example, the accused is not allowed to have counsel or even call his/her own witnesses. The standard of proof is not the problem.
4
Pierce:
If you believe that it is 50.1% likely that one of your employees is lying about being sexually assaulted by another employee, would you be wrong in firing her (or him)?
Hell would have no fury like the curses that would descend on you for your callous and brutal treatment of a sexual assault "survivor."
If you believe that it is 50.1% likely that one of your employees is lying about being sexually assaulted by another employee, would you be wrong in firing her (or him)?
Hell would have no fury like the curses that would descend on you for your callous and brutal treatment of a sexual assault "survivor."
Perhaps we shouldn't look for "a preponderance of" evidence outside the civil court system. But surely our colleges and universities can handle more nuance than the near certainty required to deprive citizens of their freedom and enfranchisement!
I would argue that a lower standard is even more egregious when amateurs at the university are doing the investigation. How much evidence will be missed or not even looked for by inexperienced amateur college people who are not trained or experienced in criminal investigation. And, this cuts both ways, as both accused and accuser may be short changed.
1
This column is basically on the mark. The Obama Department of Education's notorious "Dear Colleague" letter was truly an abomination of justice. It tried to solve a major problem, sexual assault on campus, with a cure that was as bad as the disease.
The author states "Given President Trump’s nasty attitude toward women, his administration is the worst possible candidate for challenging federal overreach on campus sexual assault. " Perhaps. But let us not forget how this happened: Betsy DeVos and President Trump inherited the situation from President Obama. It is unfathomable how President Obama, a former professor of Constitutional law at the University of Chicago, permitted the policies imposed by the Dear Colleagues letter in 2011 to remain in force.
As the author of this column suggests, it is long past time to fix things.
The author states "Given President Trump’s nasty attitude toward women, his administration is the worst possible candidate for challenging federal overreach on campus sexual assault. " Perhaps. But let us not forget how this happened: Betsy DeVos and President Trump inherited the situation from President Obama. It is unfathomable how President Obama, a former professor of Constitutional law at the University of Chicago, permitted the policies imposed by the Dear Colleagues letter in 2011 to remain in force.
As the author of this column suggests, it is long past time to fix things.
13
The issue isn't whether Trump and DeVos inherited a problem, it's that they either don't believe assault against women exists (grab them by the WHAT?) or wish to minimize the problem because that's what a lot of really sexist people want. If that last phrase bothers you, I believe you are part of the problem.
There IS a problem with sexual assault (and not just in academia), the system needs revision (especially in academia), but the answer is not to decry most accusations as fake or sexual remorse; the answer is to get the law and the universities working hand in hand to ferret out the truth to combine justice with mercy.
Remember mercy?
There IS a problem with sexual assault (and not just in academia), the system needs revision (especially in academia), but the answer is not to decry most accusations as fake or sexual remorse; the answer is to get the law and the universities working hand in hand to ferret out the truth to combine justice with mercy.
Remember mercy?
You should probably ask the victims of sexual assault if "the cure was as bad as the disease."
1
Sexual assault and rape are felonies, and they should be handled by the criminal justice system, not by school officials. That's the only way to ensure that both the accuser and the accused receive their full Constitutional rights.
I think Ms. DeVos is a poor messenger with, in this case, the right message.
I think Ms. DeVos is a poor messenger with, in this case, the right message.
11
So suppose a reasonable person looking at the evidence would conclude that there's an 80% chance that person A raped person B. That may not be enough to satisfy the beyond reasonable doubt burden of proof. Do you think the school should just ignore that evidence and not have a hearing about it at all? That seems to be what you're saying, but I would think that that's a pretty serious failure of a school's duty to keep their students safe.
The proposal by the Obama administration or anyone else has never been to solely handle campus rapes with a university's disciplinary system. These crimes are often reported to the police, but for various reasons either don't get prosecuted or don't yield convictions. Even in cases where the crime is, say, 80% likely to have occurred, a prosecutor may not proceed if they think satisfying the reasonable doubt standard is unlikely.
So why not both, basically? Even this column isn't proposing the extreme position of applying a criminal standard of evidence for colleges. The burden of proof for an ongoing relationship with a student in light of evidence that they may have committed a crime should probably be lower than the standard of evidence needed to imprison them.
The proposal by the Obama administration or anyone else has never been to solely handle campus rapes with a university's disciplinary system. These crimes are often reported to the police, but for various reasons either don't get prosecuted or don't yield convictions. Even in cases where the crime is, say, 80% likely to have occurred, a prosecutor may not proceed if they think satisfying the reasonable doubt standard is unlikely.
So why not both, basically? Even this column isn't proposing the extreme position of applying a criminal standard of evidence for colleges. The burden of proof for an ongoing relationship with a student in light of evidence that they may have committed a crime should probably be lower than the standard of evidence needed to imprison them.
5
Pierce:
No one says a college shouldn't enforce its rules and regulations. But we are talking about crimes which are the province of the courts.
If a court acquits a student of the homicide of another student, should a college hold its own trial on the count of homicide with a lower standard of proof?
No one says a college shouldn't enforce its rules and regulations. But we are talking about crimes which are the province of the courts.
If a court acquits a student of the homicide of another student, should a college hold its own trial on the count of homicide with a lower standard of proof?
2
Ian, the claim under consideration is that colleges should completely outsource their sexual assault rules to the courts, which apply a much higher standard of evidence than do normal disciplinary proceedings in a university. Under that proposal, perversely, it would be much easier to find that a student has violated academic integrity and expel them for this than it would be to find that they likely assaulted another student. Why should the standard of evidence for expulsion for the former be lower than the latter? The consequences in both cases are equally grave for the accused, but the risk of harm to others in the latter is much greater than in the former.
Acquittal or non-prosecution doesn't establish innocence. It doesn't absolve an institution like a university from the obligation to make sure that its students are safe or to apply its normal disciplinary standards to those cases.
The idea under consideration is unreasonable because it arbitrarily treats one kind of disciplinary matter within a university different than another. It owes its superficial plausibility to the fact that people wrongly think that the matter is whether or not to handle accused sexual assault as a disciplinary matter instead of referring it to the courts. But these are just two different issues. Prosecutors and police have to decide how to enforce statutory law. Colleges and universities have to decide how to enforce their disciplinary rules to keep their students safe.
Acquittal or non-prosecution doesn't establish innocence. It doesn't absolve an institution like a university from the obligation to make sure that its students are safe or to apply its normal disciplinary standards to those cases.
The idea under consideration is unreasonable because it arbitrarily treats one kind of disciplinary matter within a university different than another. It owes its superficial plausibility to the fact that people wrongly think that the matter is whether or not to handle accused sexual assault as a disciplinary matter instead of referring it to the courts. But these are just two different issues. Prosecutors and police have to decide how to enforce statutory law. Colleges and universities have to decide how to enforce their disciplinary rules to keep their students safe.
1
DEVOS, Arguably the biggest no nothing in the Cabinet, is out of her depth in even knowing the existence of regulations she must implement and follow in her job. Given the allegations of Trump's sexual assaults against a group of upward of 14 women, he's hardly one to have any credible part in the conversation. Especially after one views Trump's video with Billy Bush where Trump talks about grabbing women by their genitals because he can. He's a "star." A black hole more like. The problem with dealing with young adults in college about consensual sex is that their educations specifically exclude the sort of comprehensive sex education that is standard in the EU, for example. The French teach teenagers about how to prepare for their first sexual experience in middle school. The kids know the teachers and vice versa. There is family support for teaching kids about the relationships they need to form before becoming sexually involved with each other. In the US, such conversations are strictly forbidden because of the erosion of the wall between church and state. Even when talking about HIV AIDS prevention, the mention of sex is not permitted. The late Evert Koop said that teaching about AIDS without talking about sex is like teaching about snakebite without mentioning the snake. If certain families wish to have their children excluded on religious grounds in the US, why should they be permitted to force other children to be neglected in the area of sex education?
3
Comment dit-on, "bingo" en français?
The same people who want to keep children in ignorance, fear, shame, and guilt about sex (so-called "abstinence only" sex ed) now want to blame women for being raped and absolve young men by excusing their ignorance.
And they don't see it. They CAN"T see it: if they did, their whole world view would come down.
The same people who want to keep children in ignorance, fear, shame, and guilt about sex (so-called "abstinence only" sex ed) now want to blame women for being raped and absolve young men by excusing their ignorance.
And they don't see it. They CAN"T see it: if they did, their whole world view would come down.
The rules are simple:
1) No means No, even when it was Yes before (a person can change his/her mind even DURING sex).
2) A person cannot give consent when that person is not in their right mid: intoxicated, high or, simple rule, not well enough to drive.
1) No means No, even when it was Yes before (a person can change his/her mind even DURING sex).
2) A person cannot give consent when that person is not in their right mid: intoxicated, high or, simple rule, not well enough to drive.
4
The problem is when people do things they later regret, which surprise, happens when people drink. People get drunk or high and have sex with people they would not see otherwise, I doubt these "rules" will stop that from happening. What happens when one spends a night with someone and they later regret it? Also, why is the responsibility of monitoring sobriety of the partner and obtaining consent entirely on the male? Non consensualy sexually assaulting someone is a very serious crime; sleeping with someone consensually, or at least apparently consensually while intoxicated and later regretting is something many people experience. Afterthought regret should not transform into a rape accusation. A rape accusation because someone regrets sleeping with you is incredibly unfair. it's a life ruining sentence. rape accusations should only be for non-consensual sex, not for afterthought regret.
9
And the test for whether they were intoxicated was given when? Though having breathalyzers by the door at some of those campus parties -- like you sometimes see at bars -- would be a good idea.
1
Wrong wrong wrong
Consent given when drunk is just as valid as consent when sober.
Only if the person is unconscious from being drunk or drugged is there no consent
Get drunk, get in a car & drive drunk = go to jail because you choose to get drunk and then do something
Get drunk, fall into bed with someone = your choice to do dumb things and you are responsible for giving consent
Consent given when drunk is just as valid as consent when sober.
Only if the person is unconscious from being drunk or drugged is there no consent
Get drunk, get in a car & drive drunk = go to jail because you choose to get drunk and then do something
Get drunk, fall into bed with someone = your choice to do dumb things and you are responsible for giving consent
4
Call 911. Sexual assault and rape are crimes and should be handled by the criminal justice system. After the lawyers and jury have had their say, the college boards can decide the status of the student(s) involved. University/College Boards of Trustees are not equipped in any way to 'handle' adjuration of felonies.
They are not a court of law. They serve to guide the educational institution only.
A student arrested for drunk driving would not be taken to the University Board Room. Students are under the laws of the State in which they are going to school.
Universities can have forums in which the students are advised about risky behavior such as binge drinking or just drinking too much, what is 'consent' and other similar matters and leave the rest to our judicial system.
They are not a court of law. They serve to guide the educational institution only.
A student arrested for drunk driving would not be taken to the University Board Room. Students are under the laws of the State in which they are going to school.
Universities can have forums in which the students are advised about risky behavior such as binge drinking or just drinking too much, what is 'consent' and other similar matters and leave the rest to our judicial system.
4
Rape is a crime. Allegations should always be referred to the criminal justice system. Anything else is a failure of due process. Period.
8
This is really important but I wish more time was spent discussing the definition of sexual assault. Therein lies a lot of the problem. If you research the sexual assault policies in place at many colleges (think ivy and Nescac) you will be astonished that unwanted hand holding and attempting to kiss someone are seemed sexual assault. Add to this the basic use of language. Without any burden of proof the plaintiff is a "survivor". This creates inherent bias. In this context it's no wonder that the mantra of "regret equals rape" is acceptable.
The last point, eloquently made regularly by Camille Paglia, is that the Dear Colleague letter reverses 50 years of women's advancement and equality. She asks, shouldn't women on some level be responsible when both people are drunk?
The last point, eloquently made regularly by Camille Paglia, is that the Dear Colleague letter reverses 50 years of women's advancement and equality. She asks, shouldn't women on some level be responsible when both people are drunk?
18
"astonished that unwanted hand holding and attempting to kiss someone are seemed sexual assault"---then what level of violation do you suggest someone undergo to be considered assaulted? "Unwanted" is "no."
3
Several incidents, such as the mattress at Columbia and the misreporting at U. Va., show how the perception of sexual assault has moved the needle away from the burden of proof on the victim to the assaulter. I realize that many people think this is a good thing, but there is a reason why burden of proof is always on the plaintiff in our judicial system.
14
Intoxication means that there is no consent. That the author twists this into a claim that (any form of) regret is rape shows that the author is not being honest with us. If your potential partner is intoxicated then back off.
6
What's intoxicated, and what's having had a more modest amount of alcohol? People in America do sometimes consume alcohol before having sex. (And many of us came into this world when our parents had just been drinking.) At least for driving there's an objective test, and police officers are equipped to use it. For parties?
No. Intoxication TO THE POINT OF INCAPACITY means there is no consent. Big difference.
Go into any bar or any private party tonight and you will find people getting intoxicated who will go home to have consensual sex and find it mutually enjoyable. It is no one's business.
Go into any bar or any private party tonight and you will find people getting intoxicated who will go home to have consensual sex and find it mutually enjoyable. It is no one's business.
1
So what is your opinion about the decision of Amherst College to expel a male student who was blackout drunk when a woman student performed oral sex on him when he was unconscious?
What is your opinion of the decision of Colorado State University to expel a male student on a complaint filed by a third party busybody despite the fact that the woman with whom he had a relationship said all their sex was consensual?
What is your opinion of the decision of Colorado State University to expel a male student on a complaint filed by a third party busybody despite the fact that the woman with whom he had a relationship said all their sex was consensual?
2
Query: are not college officials committing some kind of crime by not reporting rape allegations immediately to local law enforcement? If a robbery occurred on campus, would they not involve law enforcement? Rape is a heinous crime and should be dealt with in the legal process, not by poorly trained and uninformed educrats.
3
See my comment about the attempt to considerably broaden the definition of rape. Most of the time, it's not forcible rape that's being complained about. If it were, yours would be an eminently common-sense question, and I don't think this would even be an issue, except for the occasional star athlete at some colleges.
In this instance, DeVos and the Administration may do the right thing for the wrong reasons. They are busy eliminating almost every action taken by Obama, simply to not leave any accomplishments. But as they say about the blind pig sometime locating the acorn.......
Date and/or campus rape is a serious issue, and it continues at very high levels. I live near West Point, and have seen how prevalent it is in the military academies---where you would think it would barely exist. Strict rules, supervision, an honor system and students versed in hand-to-hand combat should discourage rape. Still, it does not sufficiently do so.
Colleges have come a long way in now recognizing the problem, and do not ostracizing someone for bringing a complaint--not making the alleged victim the criminal. they investigate and consider. they take action when the evidence warrants it. And if the regulations governing them were not so clearly unsuitable, they could be applauded.
No matter what you do, in many instances it will involve alcohol, and will be "he said-she said", with no possible way to know which individual is correct. In those cases they simply must find that there is insufficient evidence, and not find one party 51% more believable then the other.
Date and/or campus rape is a serious issue, and it continues at very high levels. I live near West Point, and have seen how prevalent it is in the military academies---where you would think it would barely exist. Strict rules, supervision, an honor system and students versed in hand-to-hand combat should discourage rape. Still, it does not sufficiently do so.
Colleges have come a long way in now recognizing the problem, and do not ostracizing someone for bringing a complaint--not making the alleged victim the criminal. they investigate and consider. they take action when the evidence warrants it. And if the regulations governing them were not so clearly unsuitable, they could be applauded.
No matter what you do, in many instances it will involve alcohol, and will be "he said-she said", with no possible way to know which individual is correct. In those cases they simply must find that there is insufficient evidence, and not find one party 51% more believable then the other.
4
Have all the commenters asking why universities get involved never been to college? They are involved in any misconduct, serious or not, that affects the safety and well-being of their students and community. They have to be, or they can be sued for failure to protect.
7
Thanks, Susan!
I hate to say it but in this case I agree with DeVos. In the case of Rape/Sexual Assault the proverbial scale of Justice has to balance the rights of the victim to get justice against the rights of the accused from false accusations. In the past it has been heavily tipped in favor of the accused at the expense of the victim. We have to make sure it does not tipped in favor of the victim at the expense of the accused.
6
Devos is the "Education" secretary. Issues that deal wth law seem best managed by the Justice Dept., even better, local authorities. Because a crime did or did not occur on a college campus does not make it an issue for the Dept. of Education. Would you be calling Devos if your high school aged child was charged with or a victim of crime while at school?
1
Rape is a felony, not a matter for kangaroo courts, it is a police matter. Ruin someone's life over a six month old accusation, with a 51% presumption of guilt without due process?
Get real. DeVos is an idiot and has nothing to do with the larger reality here. How the Obama administration decided the law can be ignored on campus will probably find its way to the supremes where it will be slammed.
Get real. DeVos is an idiot and has nothing to do with the larger reality here. How the Obama administration decided the law can be ignored on campus will probably find its way to the supremes where it will be slammed.
7
The law isn't so much being ignored on campus, as some people are calling for a broadened definition of what is rape, beyond what most people currently consider to be rape.
1
Some will argue that there is an inconsistency here, that schools expel students on regular basis for violations of campus codes that are also potentially violations of criminal law. Why would claims of sexual assault differ?
The larger point is that accusations of misdemeanors and felonies, accusations of actual crimes, should ~always~ be handled by law enforcement, simply because school administrators are not part of the legal system. There's no reason schools should even be attempting to deal with due process anymore than police departments should be investigating students glancing at their neighbour's exam paper.
By extension, there's no justification for lowering the preponderance of evidence standard for misdemeanor accusations, let alone for felony accusations, no matter where the alleged incident occurred. That turns schools into dragnets and incentivizes a version of forum shopping between the school, campus police, or local police.
This isn't to say that people do not commit crimes (they do) or that accusers do not sometimes create things out of whole cloth (they do), and discouraging those behaviors make sense. But it's foolish to suggest that "solving the problem" involves the loss of due process.
The larger point is that accusations of misdemeanors and felonies, accusations of actual crimes, should ~always~ be handled by law enforcement, simply because school administrators are not part of the legal system. There's no reason schools should even be attempting to deal with due process anymore than police departments should be investigating students glancing at their neighbour's exam paper.
By extension, there's no justification for lowering the preponderance of evidence standard for misdemeanor accusations, let alone for felony accusations, no matter where the alleged incident occurred. That turns schools into dragnets and incentivizes a version of forum shopping between the school, campus police, or local police.
This isn't to say that people do not commit crimes (they do) or that accusers do not sometimes create things out of whole cloth (they do), and discouraging those behaviors make sense. But it's foolish to suggest that "solving the problem" involves the loss of due process.
5
To me, the bigger issue on campuses is drinking and most, if not all, colleges and universities do absolutely nothing to restrain students from over indulging. Alcohol is the leading cause of most assaults. While drinking is legal, the schools can and should set strict limits on consumption and severe penalties for over consumption which is generally illegal anyway. Colleges and Universities should lead the way in setting the standard of restrained alcohol consumption rather than turning a blind eye which is common now.
2
A big part of the problem is that serving alcohol to people under the age of 21 and their imbibing it is not legal. As a result much college drinking is done away from any older adult presence and not in public places. It is legal for 18-year-olds to volunteer for military service but not legal for them to drink beer.
Given the present legal constraint of the 21 lower age limit, it is not possible for a university administration to have any overt policy except total prohibition. That in turn leads to the de facto policy of turning a blind eye except in cases of egregious harm. I agree that is not a good thing and would like to see the age limit set at 18. I'm not foolish enough to think lowering the drinking age would solve the problems of overdrinking and attendant bad behavior, including rape, unprotected consensual sex, and DUI, but it could help a lot to put college student drinking out in the open and subject to some oversight short of prohibition.
Given the present legal constraint of the 21 lower age limit, it is not possible for a university administration to have any overt policy except total prohibition. That in turn leads to the de facto policy of turning a blind eye except in cases of egregious harm. I agree that is not a good thing and would like to see the age limit set at 18. I'm not foolish enough to think lowering the drinking age would solve the problems of overdrinking and attendant bad behavior, including rape, unprotected consensual sex, and DUI, but it could help a lot to put college student drinking out in the open and subject to some oversight short of prohibition.
7
Many of these cases involve parties where most of the people present cannot legally drink at all, never mind to excess, because they're too young.
Yes, this is a tough one. But I lived through the last time Massachusetts had an 18 YO drinking age, and alcohol claimed a tremendous percentage of 18 - 25 YO in trauma deaths. When the drinking age went to 21, things were a lot better in the ER my dad worked in. My cohort was just enough older when we learned to drink that fewer of us crashed and burned. Literally.
Teach kids how to drink, or better let, let them eat cannabis lozenges. They may eat themselves to death but there will be a lot less violence (including rape).
Teach kids how to drink, or better let, let them eat cannabis lozenges. They may eat themselves to death but there will be a lot less violence (including rape).
Yes, and only two things can fix this problem: walled charter schools for the rich white children, and incarceration for the rest.
2
When all this stuff first surfaced a few yrs ago with that malignant mama Stanford case it was obvious to me - go to the cops, the legitimate police. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/the-stanford-undergraduate-a...
Yes many college towns are just that, the college owns the town & therefore the cops, but many are not like U Penn, NYU, Columbia, SF State, Berkeley - big schools in big cities. If reporting directly to the legitimate police becomes the norm at leading schools I suspect the college town U´s will follow. Its a law enforcement issue, not about sex, its about assault. Going to the real cops takes a strong case, sure people lie but more will lie to their weeny collegiate committee than to law enforcement. In my experience many even small police depts take domestic violence and rape very seriously.
Yes many college towns are just that, the college owns the town & therefore the cops, but many are not like U Penn, NYU, Columbia, SF State, Berkeley - big schools in big cities. If reporting directly to the legitimate police becomes the norm at leading schools I suspect the college town U´s will follow. Its a law enforcement issue, not about sex, its about assault. Going to the real cops takes a strong case, sure people lie but more will lie to their weeny collegiate committee than to law enforcement. In my experience many even small police depts take domestic violence and rape very seriously.
4
I guess in the postmodern, intersectional world we should reinterpret "To Kill a Mockingbird " as the story of a rape apologist who smears a rape survivor in a failed attempt to get a rapist off.
6
Douglas:
Yes, another reinterpretation (for real this time) was Susan Brownmiller's (Against Our Will) suggestion that Emmett Till had been trying to exercise male privilege when he whistled at a white woman, the act that led to his brutal murder by southern whites.
Yes, another reinterpretation (for real this time) was Susan Brownmiller's (Against Our Will) suggestion that Emmett Till had been trying to exercise male privilege when he whistled at a white woman, the act that led to his brutal murder by southern whites.
A little DeVos for your morning. A writer from "Reason" magazine who wants her cake and eat it to.
Sounds O.K. on the surface. Only, why, in the middle of K-12's much bigger problem set, are we discussing THIS with all this intensity, Ms. Young?
Not that these are not important issues. But otherwise, considering the millions of the young that the Education Department is responsible for, why are you agitating on this?
I smell a ruse. And many others down the line when it comes to what Betsy DeVos is actually doing other than attempting to move massive amounts of public money into the private sector.
See the letter below from David of California. Preponderance of the evidence does NOT unfairly burden the accused. Now Ms. Young, can we move on to really discuss the real issues surrounding DeVos?
Sounds O.K. on the surface. Only, why, in the middle of K-12's much bigger problem set, are we discussing THIS with all this intensity, Ms. Young?
Not that these are not important issues. But otherwise, considering the millions of the young that the Education Department is responsible for, why are you agitating on this?
I smell a ruse. And many others down the line when it comes to what Betsy DeVos is actually doing other than attempting to move massive amounts of public money into the private sector.
See the letter below from David of California. Preponderance of the evidence does NOT unfairly burden the accused. Now Ms. Young, can we move on to really discuss the real issues surrounding DeVos?
1
I support DeVoss. The example of the Washington and Lee University case demonstrates the arbitrary fickleness which brings about most of these charges. I hope DeVoss wins. Go DeVoss, go!
1
I feel the need to comment on this but I don't have an answer. When you live in a culture that has weaponized sex and turned into a game where the person who racks up the highest score wins, where do you even begin?
We have elected a man who is such a pig where women are concerned it's beyond embarrassing. We are the laughing stock of the world. And the author wants to deal with the nuance of so and so got picked on because the chick he was with last night wasn't hot enough. The entire country seems to have turned into a mewling 15-year-old boy. And we have grown men reinforcing it. Don't ever expect the ancient golems in academia to address this issue fairly. They are part of the problem. They are men who have never grown up and see women as a trophy.
How about if we teach our children about respect? How about if we stop tacitly excusing men for their behavior? How about if we train young people to become functioning adults rather than insisting they remain selfish, self-absorbed children forever?
I think if you took all of the women victimized by men and stacked them up against all of the men wrongly accused you'd have an avalanche that buried the latter. My suggestion to men, who are stronger and bigger is not to put themselves in a position where their behavior might be suspect. Let's make an effort to see that they become men instead of boys who constantly are excused for their unacceptable behavior.
We have elected a man who is such a pig where women are concerned it's beyond embarrassing. We are the laughing stock of the world. And the author wants to deal with the nuance of so and so got picked on because the chick he was with last night wasn't hot enough. The entire country seems to have turned into a mewling 15-year-old boy. And we have grown men reinforcing it. Don't ever expect the ancient golems in academia to address this issue fairly. They are part of the problem. They are men who have never grown up and see women as a trophy.
How about if we teach our children about respect? How about if we stop tacitly excusing men for their behavior? How about if we train young people to become functioning adults rather than insisting they remain selfish, self-absorbed children forever?
I think if you took all of the women victimized by men and stacked them up against all of the men wrongly accused you'd have an avalanche that buried the latter. My suggestion to men, who are stronger and bigger is not to put themselves in a position where their behavior might be suspect. Let's make an effort to see that they become men instead of boys who constantly are excused for their unacceptable behavior.
4
Gillibrand infamously brought Columbia's "mattress girl" to the State of the Union address. Columbia gave "mattress girl" course credit for her false rape claim. The man in question was acquitted by Columbia and never arrested because he was innocent. Regret never equals rape and if intoxication precludes consent then both drunken individuals are guilty (perhaps we should just start punishing sex?). In fact, as you all know, the man just won an undisclosed settlement from the university. Gillibrand is a scurriless, machine politician who ruined her chance for higher office with that single stunt. I don't know what the group for North Carolina said, but Gillibrand deserves no defense.
13
Someone being found legally not guilty for too little persuasive evidence is different than (factual) innocence; it simply means there's too little certainty to punish the accused. It doesn't mean the other person's claim was false. And a botched process for which an institution is liable certainly doesn't prove it was a false claim to begin with. And why in the world can't a person publicly protest being treated unfairly by another person (carrying around the mattress), even if the law doesn't punish them?
Regret never equals rape? Not even when there was a legally provable rape? I think you meant to say "regret doesn't necessarily equal rape." In actual rapes, at least the victim has regrets, even if the rapist may not.
Regret never equals rape? Not even when there was a legally provable rape? I think you meant to say "regret doesn't necessarily equal rape." In actual rapes, at least the victim has regrets, even if the rapist may not.
1
As the spouse of someone who was sexually assaulted, I am not exactly someone who excuses sexual assault or any other kind. That said, though, there has become a culture around sexual assault on campus where the accused is assumed to be guilty until proven innocent, and that raises warning bells.
For one, if schools keep this up they are feeding into the misogyny that is out there, they are feeding into Fox News and the rest who claim that since many of these involve alcohol on the part of the victim, it is a crusade against men since it was the victim's fault they got drunk. When to protect victims of abuse you railroad the accused, you do neither justice and can cause more harm then good.
Sometimes these cases are cut and dried, the piece of excrement who raped that girl at Stanford was having sex with someone who is comatose, and that is non consensual. But for example, charging someone with sexual assault because the girl later had regrets and decided she was too drunk to consent it dangerous, for one thing there is no way for the girl looking back to know that; if she wakes up the next day and realizes she had sex and doesn't remember it, that is one thing, to remember it, and then weeks later decide it was non consensual, is problematic.
Likewise, if both are drunk, how come the victim is always the woman? How come the male is always assumed to be able to consent?
We can't assume a victim is a victim because of their sex, or guilty party, we need to have facts.
For one, if schools keep this up they are feeding into the misogyny that is out there, they are feeding into Fox News and the rest who claim that since many of these involve alcohol on the part of the victim, it is a crusade against men since it was the victim's fault they got drunk. When to protect victims of abuse you railroad the accused, you do neither justice and can cause more harm then good.
Sometimes these cases are cut and dried, the piece of excrement who raped that girl at Stanford was having sex with someone who is comatose, and that is non consensual. But for example, charging someone with sexual assault because the girl later had regrets and decided she was too drunk to consent it dangerous, for one thing there is no way for the girl looking back to know that; if she wakes up the next day and realizes she had sex and doesn't remember it, that is one thing, to remember it, and then weeks later decide it was non consensual, is problematic.
Likewise, if both are drunk, how come the victim is always the woman? How come the male is always assumed to be able to consent?
We can't assume a victim is a victim because of their sex, or guilty party, we need to have facts.
7
If it seems like many women feel overly sensitive about this issue--about defending the offenders over the victims of sexual assault--and distrustful of anyone in the current administration to make any positive change in this area, please remember who is currently in charge. The Republican party. The same party that promotes the notion that women should not have control over their own bodies, that continually seeks to defund organizations that support women's reproductive health, and shames women facing unplanned pregnancies, treating them like sex-crazed sluts. Why should we trust Republicans to do anything remotely fair when it comes to campus sexual assault?
I think the identity of the current administration makes not one bit of difference. This issue has elicited a superheated response from feminists and liberal groups for at least 20 years.
Universities should not be in the law enforcement business. Period. Sexual assault is a crime and should be treated as one, with all accusations investigated by professionals and adjudicated by the legal system. Nothing less is fair either to the accuser or the accused. What's in a school's best interest is making these situations "just go away" -- either by discouraging reports of assaults or by rushing the accused through kangaroo courts operated by employees whose primary concern is that of the university's reputation. This should have nothing to do with Title IX, and never should have.
4
I wish there wasn't a problem with turning these cases over to the "real" police. But there is one, and it is a major one. It takes years, sometimes, for cases to wend their way through the court system. Which means if the accused is innocent, he/she will have this hanging over their heads, and affecting their whole lives very negatively, until the case is brought to an end. If the accused is guilty, in the time until the case is done, he/she could be committing crimes against other people for quite a while, not to mention the accuser may have to be in classes with his/her rapist, see that person around campus, maybe smearing the victim's reputation, etc. But the solution isn't a college kangaroo court, either. This is a very difficult problem to come to grips with. The booze culture at most colleges is ridiculous. How do you crack down on something that can be done in secret? I think better sex education, starting at a young age, would be a great help. But folks here in America seem to want to keep their children sexually ignorant for as long as they can.
Why is sexual asssault handled by the school in the first place? This seems to be a left-over from the days when undergraduate students were not adults and the school acted in loco parentis. Sexual assault is a crime. Isn't it possible that it should be handled the same way for the those within the somewhat privileged environs of colleges and universities as it would be if it happened outside its gates: by law enforcement agencies.
6
Depending on what one means by "sexual assault," it may or may not be a crime. A forcible rape is certainly a crime; so is sex with an unconscious or severely intoxicated person; taking advantage of someone who's had a drink or two may be unethical, but not currently criminal. An unwanted touch over clothes may be boorish and illegal, but wouldn't be prosecuted in most places (and for most parts of the body).
I am a former college administrator who oversaw the campus judicial system. As the author and other commenters note, expulsion is a slap on the wrist for rape. That is the root cause of the problem. Expulsion is the most severe sanction a campus tribunal can render. Rape is a serious crime and needs to be handled by the police and not campus tribunals. Police and the criminal justice system can impose the appropriate punishment for rapists.
Let's not confuse rape with inappropriate behavior like lewd comments. These can be handled on a campus. But rape is rape as defined by the state's criminal code. There is no such thing as "acquaintance rape" in those codes. College administrators are no better to handle rape than they are homicides.
By the way, I am no fan of DeVos who is totally unsuited for the secretary of education position,
Let's not confuse rape with inappropriate behavior like lewd comments. These can be handled on a campus. But rape is rape as defined by the state's criminal code. There is no such thing as "acquaintance rape" in those codes. College administrators are no better to handle rape than they are homicides.
By the way, I am no fan of DeVos who is totally unsuited for the secretary of education position,
11
The NY Times is right, you can not deprive anyone of due process. The legal standard of "preponderance of evidence" is used in civil cases such as contract disputes in which there is much evidence. It is entirely inappropriate in criminal complaints especially campus sexual assault when there is usually no evidence besides "he said, she said". There have now been many highly publicized cases: Duke lacrosse, Columbia mattress, and the University of Virginia Rolling Stone, in which the defendant was completely exonerated but not after expulsions, ruined reputations, and prosecutorial misconduct was proven.
The universities bear much of the blame in this fiasco. First, it took centuries of jurisprudence, case law, and experience to create our justice system which defends everyone's rights-as imperfect as it is. What made our universities think they could create a parallel justice system which would work? At my alma mater, the Columbia Mattress Case, neither the accused nor the defendant thought Columbia protected their rights or was anything more than mob justice. Is this why they ask me for donations? To support administrators to make things worse? To pay settlements?
The decision to house boys and girls in the same dorms, using the same bathrooms, is a disaster. Separate dorms creates respect and a paper chain of evidence. The universities need to recognize this and separate students again.
Godspeed Betsy Devos! Return the rule of law to our campuses!
The universities bear much of the blame in this fiasco. First, it took centuries of jurisprudence, case law, and experience to create our justice system which defends everyone's rights-as imperfect as it is. What made our universities think they could create a parallel justice system which would work? At my alma mater, the Columbia Mattress Case, neither the accused nor the defendant thought Columbia protected their rights or was anything more than mob justice. Is this why they ask me for donations? To support administrators to make things worse? To pay settlements?
The decision to house boys and girls in the same dorms, using the same bathrooms, is a disaster. Separate dorms creates respect and a paper chain of evidence. The universities need to recognize this and separate students again.
Godspeed Betsy Devos! Return the rule of law to our campuses!
10
Rape was never ignored. It has been a major felony in every state's criminal code for as long as there have been states and criminal codes. It was sometimes a capital offense.
What is new here is a bunch of amateurs setting up a toy judicial system, balancing the lack of serious penalties for the guilty with a lack of protections for the innocent accused. Their motives are to protect actual rapists from criminal penalties by discouraging victims from going to the police, something that amounts to obstruction of justice, and to conceal the true crime rates at their institutions.
The solution is to leave the criminal law in the hands of the criminal justice system. The role of campus "courts" is to prosecute violations of academic integrity, and nothing else.
What is new here is a bunch of amateurs setting up a toy judicial system, balancing the lack of serious penalties for the guilty with a lack of protections for the innocent accused. Their motives are to protect actual rapists from criminal penalties by discouraging victims from going to the police, something that amounts to obstruction of justice, and to conceal the true crime rates at their institutions.
The solution is to leave the criminal law in the hands of the criminal justice system. The role of campus "courts" is to prosecute violations of academic integrity, and nothing else.
10
Surely you jest, "rape has never been a problem..."
Under what rock have you been living all your life? Rape has historically been one of the least --prosecuted--crimes. In large part becasue women have been shamed, made to feel responsible (what was she wearing) and then bullied by the defendant's layer if the woman had the courage to file charges and it proceeds to trial. Marital rape has only very recently gained the status of a crime.
Under what rock have you been living all your life? Rape has historically been one of the least --prosecuted--crimes. In large part becasue women have been shamed, made to feel responsible (what was she wearing) and then bullied by the defendant's layer if the woman had the courage to file charges and it proceeds to trial. Marital rape has only very recently gained the status of a crime.
1
Please note this is the second half of my submission.
Just because a SA is not prosecuted doesn’t determine a report is likely false. A false report is a crime reported to police that an investigation factually proves never occurred. A baseless report is one that is determined not to meet the elements of the crime, but is presumed truthful.
Yet, ALL victims (adults & children) are suspected of false reporting by our society. Sexual assault is a difficult crime to prosecute. One reason is because the crime typically occurs with no witness other than the perp & the victim. Perps often say it was consensual resulting in a he said, she said, which influences a prosecutor's decision, even though he/she may believe the victim 100%.
All schools have a responsibility to keep students safe. A preponderance of the evidence IS a sufficient standard for school purposes. They aren't courts & shouldn't be determining beyond a reasonable doubt. The threat of losing federal funding is appropriate. Colleges for far too long failed SA victims by taking little/no action resulting in victims to drop out or face their perp every day.
Colleges still aren't responding appropriately. Our criminal justice system sometimes makes mistakes (as DNA technology has shown us). It isn’t fair in either arena. Good school policies, procedures & well trained staff are key in this Title XI recommendation. That’s right recommendation. Shame on you NYT for not researching this issue better.
Just because a SA is not prosecuted doesn’t determine a report is likely false. A false report is a crime reported to police that an investigation factually proves never occurred. A baseless report is one that is determined not to meet the elements of the crime, but is presumed truthful.
Yet, ALL victims (adults & children) are suspected of false reporting by our society. Sexual assault is a difficult crime to prosecute. One reason is because the crime typically occurs with no witness other than the perp & the victim. Perps often say it was consensual resulting in a he said, she said, which influences a prosecutor's decision, even though he/she may believe the victim 100%.
All schools have a responsibility to keep students safe. A preponderance of the evidence IS a sufficient standard for school purposes. They aren't courts & shouldn't be determining beyond a reasonable doubt. The threat of losing federal funding is appropriate. Colleges for far too long failed SA victims by taking little/no action resulting in victims to drop out or face their perp every day.
Colleges still aren't responding appropriately. Our criminal justice system sometimes makes mistakes (as DNA technology has shown us). It isn’t fair in either arena. Good school policies, procedures & well trained staff are key in this Title XI recommendation. That’s right recommendation. Shame on you NYT for not researching this issue better.
Where two people are telling two different stories and there is no other evidence, whether we are in a courtroom or not we should not be pretending we know what happened.
3
And note that NEITHER of them went to jail/prison/probation, which, had it been prosecuted criminally, would not be true.
Lucky for them.
Lucky for them.
This is a tricky issue where both sides have a strong case. I would say that the penalties imposed by colleges for cases where rape has occurred are too mild, and it is too difficult for victims to seek justice, but the standard of evidence required to penalize the accused are too weak. Note that it is not at all impossible for both these things to be true. I would also submit that there is something slightly odd, and perhaps anti-feminist, in requiring that the male partner have a greater responsibility to ensure the consensual nature of the encounter (this seems to play into a narrative where women are always passive victims, which does not seem useful or empowering), Yet, it is equally true that the majority of offenses are committed by men. Very tricky.
2
I have been subjected to an "investigation" and "trial" administered by a college admin (for something other than sexual assault). I can attest that they are ufair in many ways:
- There are numerous aspects which don't follow the same due process as an actual court of law. For example: The accused is often not allowed to have a lawyer present; there is no cross-examination of witnesses; etc.
- The administrators who run these "trials" aren't trained about legal procedures; and the faculty/staff who serve as "jurors" likewise aren't given proper instruction about legal burdens of proof.
- The lower standard of "preponderance of evidence" (compared to "beyond a reasonable doubt") is patently unfair.
- The most egregious aspect is that there are multiple pressures on the college to find a verdict of "guity," even on scant evidence; e.g. fear of losing federal funding. In many cases, if they make a mistake in following proper procedures, they try to cover their own mistake by railroading the accused male out of the college, beating him down financially and emotionally so that he won't lodge a countersuit.
All of these things happened to me. I lost not only my job; it destroyed my career and ruined me financially. Worse: being abused by an unfair system caused me to have PTSD.
Doing this to an innocent 18-year-old boy is unconscionable. The "innocent until proven guilty" standard is purposefully set high to protect against this. College "trials" subvert that protection.
- There are numerous aspects which don't follow the same due process as an actual court of law. For example: The accused is often not allowed to have a lawyer present; there is no cross-examination of witnesses; etc.
- The administrators who run these "trials" aren't trained about legal procedures; and the faculty/staff who serve as "jurors" likewise aren't given proper instruction about legal burdens of proof.
- The lower standard of "preponderance of evidence" (compared to "beyond a reasonable doubt") is patently unfair.
- The most egregious aspect is that there are multiple pressures on the college to find a verdict of "guity," even on scant evidence; e.g. fear of losing federal funding. In many cases, if they make a mistake in following proper procedures, they try to cover their own mistake by railroading the accused male out of the college, beating him down financially and emotionally so that he won't lodge a countersuit.
All of these things happened to me. I lost not only my job; it destroyed my career and ruined me financially. Worse: being abused by an unfair system caused me to have PTSD.
Doing this to an innocent 18-year-old boy is unconscionable. The "innocent until proven guilty" standard is purposefully set high to protect against this. College "trials" subvert that protection.
10
Does anyone really believe that any issue Betsy DeVos takes on will end well.
3
There is a need to strike a balance here, but I fear many of the arguments by opponents of protecting women from rape on campus reflect the long-standing double standard our President has expressed and underlies such things as bathroom bills which are only concerned with transgender access to women's bathrooms but not men's and opposition not only to abortion in all cases but also access to contraception.
If such male-biased nonsense were stopped and women treated with true equality, it would not be difficult to set fair standards for rape investigations that both sexes could support. As it is now, admitting to having been raped itself often makes the women the victim of even more abuse, regardless of what happens to the man in the case.
If such male-biased nonsense were stopped and women treated with true equality, it would not be difficult to set fair standards for rape investigations that both sexes could support. As it is now, admitting to having been raped itself often makes the women the victim of even more abuse, regardless of what happens to the man in the case.
1
My fellow commenter JM says students who believe themselves to have been assaulted should contact the police. I agree and will go one better: People on a campus who are accused of sexual assault should also go to the police.
Faced with the prospect of a "preponderance" trial run by academics posing as jurists, I would rather report myself to the local DA and insist upon the operation of actual due process under actual law.
Ask yourself what would happen if one student were to murder another. Would the case remain inside the campus disciplinary system for a committee of "dear colleagues" to mull over? Or would someone call the police?
Murder and rape are the two worst violent crimes one person can commit against another. If your standards for prosecuting them are so radically different, you're practicing politics, not justice.
Faced with the prospect of a "preponderance" trial run by academics posing as jurists, I would rather report myself to the local DA and insist upon the operation of actual due process under actual law.
Ask yourself what would happen if one student were to murder another. Would the case remain inside the campus disciplinary system for a committee of "dear colleagues" to mull over? Or would someone call the police?
Murder and rape are the two worst violent crimes one person can commit against another. If your standards for prosecuting them are so radically different, you're practicing politics, not justice.
10
Sadly, Cathy, you begin this bizarre tome invoking the Right's favorite rape trope, "But she said she liked it!".
Yeah. So?
Wealthy white wine aficionados like the taste of fine French wine that has been adulterated with anti-freeze. Does that make doing so any less of a crime?
Then you cite a district court judge who, in the face of anecdotes from the accused boy ruled "If what the complainant says is true, then..." What kind of standard is that?
But you do inadvertently make an excellent point.
If the allegations are assault, rape, harassment, and if they are to be taken seriously, and if the rights of the accused are to be safeguarded, then these cases must move off campus to real court rooms with real judges.
This would not preclude creating an environment of support and safety on campus that could extend to both accuser and accused and make life better, but it will obviate the endless debate that pretend campus justice creates, ensure standards for behavior and argument, and ideally make decisions better and more enforceable.
Especially at a time when the Great Minds of the Right are foaming at the mouth over the liberal domination of College World, moving these cases to the courts is really the only rational choice.
Yeah. So?
Wealthy white wine aficionados like the taste of fine French wine that has been adulterated with anti-freeze. Does that make doing so any less of a crime?
Then you cite a district court judge who, in the face of anecdotes from the accused boy ruled "If what the complainant says is true, then..." What kind of standard is that?
But you do inadvertently make an excellent point.
If the allegations are assault, rape, harassment, and if they are to be taken seriously, and if the rights of the accused are to be safeguarded, then these cases must move off campus to real court rooms with real judges.
This would not preclude creating an environment of support and safety on campus that could extend to both accuser and accused and make life better, but it will obviate the endless debate that pretend campus justice creates, ensure standards for behavior and argument, and ideally make decisions better and more enforceable.
Especially at a time when the Great Minds of the Right are foaming at the mouth over the liberal domination of College World, moving these cases to the courts is really the only rational choice.
1
“ ...rightly criticized as extremist for, among other things, referring to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand as an ‘All men are rapists’ misandrist.’“
Sorry, but I too have been shocked by Senator Gillibrand’s militance in pursuing obviously false charges. But I guess I’ll have to vote for her since it’s impossible to vote for “the party of stupid” now that it’s morphed into the party of psychopath worship.
Sorry, but I too have been shocked by Senator Gillibrand’s militance in pursuing obviously false charges. But I guess I’ll have to vote for her since it’s impossible to vote for “the party of stupid” now that it’s morphed into the party of psychopath worship.
2
I dislike Trump, and with his misogyny and objectification and borderline sexual assault, he's a poor poster child for this issue. Similarly, DeVos doesn't exactly have a strong academic record.
But even a stopped clock is right twice a day. The current climate on campus is grossly unfair and ignores any rights of the accused. If DeVos does revise things to bring them more toward fairness, it would be at least one positive legacy of her tenure.
But even a stopped clock is right twice a day. The current climate on campus is grossly unfair and ignores any rights of the accused. If DeVos does revise things to bring them more toward fairness, it would be at least one positive legacy of her tenure.
7
One question I have never received an adequate answer to. When both parties are intoxicated and engage in sexual activity, why is it that only the male is considered guilty of rape? Neither party in such a case is legally able to give consent due to intoxication, therefore is seems to me that equality under the law should conclude the either both are guilty or neither.
I have no idea what percentage of sexual assault cases fall under this category, but there are certainly some and I see the current standard as sexual discrimination of the rankest sort.
I have no idea what percentage of sexual assault cases fall under this category, but there are certainly some and I see the current standard as sexual discrimination of the rankest sort.
11
You are absolutely right. The notion that intoxication itself negates the possibility of legal consent should result in rape prosecutions of women, as well as men, when both parties are drunk.
1
In my tiresome way I will now reiterate what I am posting everywhere I can find to post it. Schools, colleges, academics, the dean of library science, whoever, are not qualified to make determinations of what is essentially a criminal matter.
Sexual assault is a crime. So, of course, is rape. These crimes have profoundly negative effects on victims, and a determination of guilt has a profoundly negative effect on the criminal (as it should). We have a whole machinery, the court system, set up to deal with such matters. This should not be Amateur Hour. There is way too much at stake on both sides.
If there are imperfections in the court system, which of course there always are, we should work to improve the courts and the police. That is not an excuse to put such important determinations in the hands of academics, who have neither the training nor the resources to make decisions in tune with justice. It would be equally disastrous to ask the local judge to teach a course on Chaucer. Only chaos can possibly ensue, in either case.
Sexual assault is a crime. So, of course, is rape. These crimes have profoundly negative effects on victims, and a determination of guilt has a profoundly negative effect on the criminal (as it should). We have a whole machinery, the court system, set up to deal with such matters. This should not be Amateur Hour. There is way too much at stake on both sides.
If there are imperfections in the court system, which of course there always are, we should work to improve the courts and the police. That is not an excuse to put such important determinations in the hands of academics, who have neither the training nor the resources to make decisions in tune with justice. It would be equally disastrous to ask the local judge to teach a course on Chaucer. Only chaos can possibly ensue, in either case.
10
I'll just say I had to read any editorial starting with the sentence, "Betsy DeVos is right."
4
I'm in agreement and I think we could be pleasantly surprised by the solution that Mrs. DeVos comes up with. I think we count her out as a right-wing nut at our peril.
I recently had the pleasure of being in a social situation with several college men in their early 20s. This subject came up and I was shocked at how genuinely terrified they are about relationships and what can happen when they go sour. A man risks being branded unjustly forever and women are always inches away from being ignored when an actual assault has taken place.
I recently had the pleasure of being in a social situation with several college men in their early 20s. This subject came up and I was shocked at how genuinely terrified they are about relationships and what can happen when they go sour. A man risks being branded unjustly forever and women are always inches away from being ignored when an actual assault has taken place.
5
i agree. every college male should have 24/7 video surveillance in the room. the risk is small but the consequences are huge
1
When I was 17, I went on a summer high school trip to Italy with my Latin class and teacher. Joining us on the tour were a group of high school students from another state and their teacher. The first day on the bus tour, two male friends and I chatted with a female student form the other delegation seated behind us. We pulled into the hotel that night and went our separate ways. When we disembarked from the bus on the second day, our teacher said that the female had accused the three of us of raping her the night before at the hotel. The female's teacher reflexively believed her and was prepared to call the Italian police, when my teacher got word of things and asked for our side of the story first. Our story was simple and was the truth: the accusation was a lie and we had never even been in the same room as the female, let alone raped her. The female completely made the story up for attention. The other delegation's teacher reluctantly backed down from calling the police, but she insisted that for the rest of the trip, my friends and I be split up and room with male students from the other delegation "to keep an eye on us at night."
The most frustrating part, years later, is that the other delegation's teacher reflexively believed the female accuser and was ready to send us to the police without even asking us what happened.
Rape is terrible. So are false accusations.
The most frustrating part, years later, is that the other delegation's teacher reflexively believed the female accuser and was ready to send us to the police without even asking us what happened.
Rape is terrible. So are false accusations.
144
So the teacher should have just, without question, believed you? Sounds like you got off pretty easy. I would have called the police in a heartbeat!
6
The teacher should have called the police.
Yes, but false accusation are a vanishingly small part of the problem, like 2%.
Let's not let our political beliefs (all rape victims are liars?) get in the way of managing a real and sever problem for all rape victims, regardless of gender. OK?
Let's not let our political beliefs (all rape victims are liars?) get in the way of managing a real and sever problem for all rape victims, regardless of gender. OK?
1
We know that college students make bad decisions. Whether it's using drugs, procrastinating, not eating or sleeping, or carelessly throwing their bodies around five beers deep, these students are setting themselves up for disaster.
The key with these sexual assault cases is discerning everyday college life from true criminal activity.
Without due process, these cases become "he said, she said" and resemble coin flips more than trials.
If there were no psychopaths in the world, the "sans evidence honor system" would work fine. Unfortunately, people, believe it or not, can lie about being raped (evidence: duke lacrosse scandal).
The key with these sexual assault cases is discerning everyday college life from true criminal activity.
Without due process, these cases become "he said, she said" and resemble coin flips more than trials.
If there were no psychopaths in the world, the "sans evidence honor system" would work fine. Unfortunately, people, believe it or not, can lie about being raped (evidence: duke lacrosse scandal).
2
If you are so inclined you can produce anecdotal evidence rainbows incite girl scouts to drown puppies. Otherwise, women have been the victims of a male dominated natural heirarchy for all of recorded history but by all means let us correct the injustice being levied upon the male gender before this gets out of hand and the good old boys lose control.
3
So, every accusation of rape is a true one? Maybe we should have summary executions as well while we're at it?
1
Let's remember what's at stake in a title IX proceeding involving a sexual assault complaint. It's not about taking away someones liberty. It's taking away a public benefit (the right to attend a school). We apply the preponderance standard to taking away people's medicaid or drivers license. And that accords with due process because the process that is due depends on the significance of the interest at stake. Mens' rights proponants claim the injury to repution is enough, but a victim could bring a civil suit based on rape and win based on a preponderance of the evidence and do the same reputation damage. I would contend that there is no reason this right should be afforded any more protection than others which as significant. Another reason why a school should want a more moderate standard of proof is that false negatives pose a particular risk to the college community, since it leaves an offender in an enivornment where he can harm again.
24
you cannot take away a driving licence on the basis of preponderance of evidence
1
False negatives?
If we take your advice and rely on amateurs to find the truth, that is just what we will more of. False negatives, AND false positives.
These are serious charges, and they should be taken seriously -- by professionals.
If we take your advice and rely on amateurs to find the truth, that is just what we will more of. False negatives, AND false positives.
These are serious charges, and they should be taken seriously -- by professionals.
2
I appreciate your sentiment - but I have one small disagreement. The preponderance of evidence in a civil trial still follows the rules of evidence, etc and still allows both parties to have access to counsel. It also allows for an independent and unbiased judge and jury. Unfortunately for many university programs, none of these are in place.
I have zero issue with creating a civil course of action to remove students, but I do have a problem with it being extra judicial.
I have zero issue with creating a civil course of action to remove students, but I do have a problem with it being extra judicial.
3
A significant part of this issue appears to me to be a combination of young people being foolish, careless, naive and unparented and universities and parents that do not really deal with drunkenness. Another part is the evolution of consent as to willingness to engage in sexual activities. If we expect kids new to college to be adults (unrealistic in my view), be able to enlist in the military, make legal decisions, we are stuck with some of the consequences of that bright line classification of adulthood and responsibility. Adults make mistakes, drink too much, have regrets, change habits from learning about life. Some learn, some don't. The laws and rules cannot prevent or provide justice to all people, all the time.
The author trots out one example of an individual treated unfairly in a sexual assault case and then demands the readers conclude that this single case is representative of all sexual assault charges. This is shameful, insulting and a classic example of biased rhetoric attempting to mislead readers. I would expect a freshman in a college writing class to be able to spot the fundamental problem with this line of argument.
1
There are many examples of unfair treatment. There is a word for calling many examples, just one example. it is called, "lying", Steve.
4
There is only one example of an individual treated unfairly in a sexual assault case in the article. There are not many examples. There is a reference to a buzzfeed story about an expulsion but nothing in this article indicates either participant disputed the findings or argued unfair treatment. Regardless, two would not constitute many examples.
Tawana Brawley; Crystal Gayle Mangum; Jackie Coakley; Sarah Ylen. Need we go on? We can.
2
The "Dear Colleague" letter threatens schools with loss of all Federal aid - total destruction - if the woman is deemed to have been treated unfairly. But, if the man is treated unfairly, only he suffers harm. Biased incentives yield biased results.
7
Part of the problem of campus rape is that the drinking age was raised from 18 to 21, which has, far too frequently, resulted in binge drinking on campuses. Personally, I have lots of second thoughts about the appropriateness of charging young men with rape and/or assault when both parties involved are to drunk to have any rationale idea of what they are doing. Of course, there are those situations where the men - usually fraternity brothers - drug the women. I am not talking about that. Kids - especially those away from home for the first time, need to learn about alcohol -- how to drink responsibly. Just saying "no" until they are 21 is not working.
7
One of the factors that creates unfairness for both sides is that campus disciplinary proceedings exist neither to protect the rights of the accused nor the interests of the potential victim in seeking justice. Rather, these proceedings are mainly a way for campuses to avoid liability and protect their image. A carefully controlled proceeding can avoid potential lawsuits and potentially create good PR for the campus, much to the detriment of the parties involved.
Reform should address this perverse incentive. In the justice system, the court has no stake in the outcome. On campuses, the college or university has as much stake as any of the parties. Remove this incentive, and fairness may follow.
Reform should address this perverse incentive. In the justice system, the court has no stake in the outcome. On campuses, the college or university has as much stake as any of the parties. Remove this incentive, and fairness may follow.
10
Mutual consent will forever be a question, but, short of obvious evidence indicating accompanying physical intimidation, is a reasonable assumption to accept
Tarred with a brush dipped in the acceptance of women as the weaker sex, any consideration that women may be as desirous of the encounter as the accused man is often lost. This alone reinforces a stereotype which has doubtless been forwarded by either men who seek to keep women in their place or women who seek to gain the advantage this acceptance can bring.
I have been careful or fortunate enough in that I have never been accused of sexual misconduct even in less than sober encounters, but then it may be my lack of coercion and ability to accept rejection was not so oddly the key to carefree encounters.
None of us is perfect and if both men and women wish to avoid questions with regard to the imperfections exhibited in sexual pursuit we must also avoid situations which most of us know are questionable.
Alcohol and other drugs alter our consciousness to the point we often disregard values to which all of us have been exposed and its' use will always bring suspicion to any claims made by any aggrieved party.
The only way to avoid circumstantial questions is to avoid the circumstance in which they can arise. No means no.
Tarred with a brush dipped in the acceptance of women as the weaker sex, any consideration that women may be as desirous of the encounter as the accused man is often lost. This alone reinforces a stereotype which has doubtless been forwarded by either men who seek to keep women in their place or women who seek to gain the advantage this acceptance can bring.
I have been careful or fortunate enough in that I have never been accused of sexual misconduct even in less than sober encounters, but then it may be my lack of coercion and ability to accept rejection was not so oddly the key to carefree encounters.
None of us is perfect and if both men and women wish to avoid questions with regard to the imperfections exhibited in sexual pursuit we must also avoid situations which most of us know are questionable.
Alcohol and other drugs alter our consciousness to the point we often disregard values to which all of us have been exposed and its' use will always bring suspicion to any claims made by any aggrieved party.
The only way to avoid circumstantial questions is to avoid the circumstance in which they can arise. No means no.
Thank you for this insightful article. It is critical that everyone learns about how Title IX has been twisted and perverted by a certain section of angry activists. Sexual Assault is real, but how colleges are handling is unconstitutional, bring back a little sanity to the practice of implementing the policy. Too many school administrators live in fear of losing their jobs, losing funding, their reputations, and being bullied by the Woman's groups. Take investigations out of their responsibilities and allow them the peace to nurture student development in academics.
11
Bullying by Women's groups is notoriously effective. Not. Of course innocent men accused of assault need defense and deserve justice, but the pendulum is and has been so far on the side of the rapist, if during this transition while men and boys internalize the higher rules of civilized behavior, the pendulum is a little bit on the victims side, so be it. When men realize their muscles, ways of thinking, and goals, are hitting walls, that the cave men era is finally really over, and pass the baton on to the more adept and capable when it comes to social leaderhsip, females of the species, will peace, justice, science and mankind's potential, be fully realized. Men, thank your for protecting us, like the skull around the brain, like the shell around the egg, like the armed swordsmen around the king. You've known all along what is most precious.
1
I don't see universities imprisoning anyone. Therefore your claims about constitutionality do not apply.
2
Title IX is the only area of the law where the accused is denied the active assistance of legal counsel. Even in circumstances where an accused student is allowed to have an "advisor" present during a hearing, the attorney is prohibited from addressing the panel or from questioning witnesses. As others have pointed out, the standard of proof is also ridiculously low and panel members have no legal training. Due process for the accused and respect for alleged victims are not mutually exclusive goals. We can and should have both!
10
Laws including due process and the usual investigative and judicial work should not be different for people on a college campus vs everywhere else in the nation. The feds forcing college administrators to play a key, lead role in legal issues, setting up these kangaroo courts, was ridiculous in the first place -- stunningly difficult to believe in our nation based on the rule of law. If a student -- whether male or female - thinks a crime has been committed against his or her person, the local law enforcement authorities are his/her recourse.
10
Everyone is missing the point here, De Voss included. The policy may need a tweak or colleges need to train staff better. Very few alleged perpetrators who are innocent are affected compared to the number of victims who would be. It’s an overreaction to change this policy. Consider these facts.
Only 63% of sexual assaults (SA) are ever even reported to authorities (victims know they’ll be re-victimized). About 2% of all reported SAs are false, about the same as for other felonies.
Please see second submission for remainder of this post.
Only 63% of sexual assaults (SA) are ever even reported to authorities (victims know they’ll be re-victimized). About 2% of all reported SAs are false, about the same as for other felonies.
Please see second submission for remainder of this post.
11
Your false accusation statistic is inaccurate if you are trying to compare to unreported sexual assaults. Do not use the inflated SA unreported and the DOJ provable in court False Accusation low end of the sale rate.
Statistically and ethically it is disingenuous. Just because there are perceived less of something does not mean voices should not be heard to correct bad policy.
By your logic, the death penalty is okay if only 2 innocent people are put to death in order to have those that unreported victims feel empowered. I hope someone you love is never on the end of a false accusation and is denied the opportunity to defend themselves and see their life taken from them. It is like being in that dream where you try to scream and nothing comes out. Innocent victims of an unconstitutional process are finally finding their voices, not because they don't want sexual assault to go in punished, just because they want a fair and unbiased process. Their right as a citizen of the US is the presumption of innocence, that is lacking today. Open your mind, 50 settled lawsuits to-date says there is something wrong with the current policy.
Statistically and ethically it is disingenuous. Just because there are perceived less of something does not mean voices should not be heard to correct bad policy.
By your logic, the death penalty is okay if only 2 innocent people are put to death in order to have those that unreported victims feel empowered. I hope someone you love is never on the end of a false accusation and is denied the opportunity to defend themselves and see their life taken from them. It is like being in that dream where you try to scream and nothing comes out. Innocent victims of an unconstitutional process are finally finding their voices, not because they don't want sexual assault to go in punished, just because they want a fair and unbiased process. Their right as a citizen of the US is the presumption of innocence, that is lacking today. Open your mind, 50 settled lawsuits to-date says there is something wrong with the current policy.
5
This 2% statistic is deceptive because it can only apply where it's proved that a report is false. What about all the reports where one party insists and the other party denies and no evidence can be produced to prove who's telling the truth? That's probably the most prevalent scenario.
2
It's telling that this article couldn't even start by providing the basics to frame the issue. One in four women assaulted, a strong minority -- if not majority -- by serial assaulters. Very few are even suspended, with a tiny minority going to jail. Of course there are those who can and should advocate from them; we don't insist the same groups advocate for victims of crime or terrorism and criminals or terrorists in any other circumstance. It is absolutely right for many to expect a safe and non-discriminatory environment from schools receding government funding, and Title IX and the "Dear Colleague" letter is an important tool in this fight. Please do tackle culture and entertainment glorifying sexual violence, what is spent on sexual assault prevention and response vs. endowments and athletic programs, etc. NYT you can do better and we're doing so under Jill Abramson.
7
Please send me your data about 25% rate of sexual assaults. That is significantly higher than the USDOJ stats for sexual assault meaning that productive college students rape at a significantly higher rate than less productive citizens. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. Send the information to me care of the Law Offices of Jim Brown, PO Box 592, Beaufort, SC 29901.
2
The 1 in 4 number is from an unreliable study which included sexual comments and groping as "sexual assault", which then somehow reached the media as, "1 in 4 women on college campuses has been raped".
1
Great piece. First, Sexual assault is a crime just like other types of assault, robbery, etc. schools don't adjudicate robbery and aggravated non Sexual assault. The criminal justice system does with its professional investigators prosecutors, defense attorneys and legal protections for accused and accusers. Schools should be out of it. Second, expulsion is a severe potentially life destroying sanction paiting the accysed with a permanent scarlet letter and destroying dreams. Applying a more likely than not standard in these circumstances is an abomination. This standard is commonly used in the Civil justice system, when only an award of monetary damages is the typical potential penalty. Expulsion is a much more serious penalty, it's absolutely unfair to apply the civil standard with such a severe penalty.
The third standard is clear and convincing evidence used in between a money only penalty (more likely than not) and incarceration (reasonable doubt) The standard should match the potential penalty , with expulsion Clear and convincing
is the appropriate standard. Otherwise the potential for a miscarriage of justice is too great.
The third standard is clear and convincing evidence used in between a money only penalty (more likely than not) and incarceration (reasonable doubt) The standard should match the potential penalty , with expulsion Clear and convincing
is the appropriate standard. Otherwise the potential for a miscarriage of justice is too great.
63
Uh... yeah colleges and universities actually DO adjudicate robbery and aggravated non-sexual assault. All the time.
Schools are social institutions with codes of conduct for members. When the institution concludes someone violated their code of conduct, they expel them.
Students are expelled for assault, rate, and robbery all the time.
Unless you're going to claim that schools can't have codes of conduct and require compliance with those codes, you're going to have to explain why sexual assault is different than all those other crimes - even felonies - that come up all the time.
Schools are social institutions with codes of conduct for members. When the institution concludes someone violated their code of conduct, they expel them.
Students are expelled for assault, rate, and robbery all the time.
Unless you're going to claim that schools can't have codes of conduct and require compliance with those codes, you're going to have to explain why sexual assault is different than all those other crimes - even felonies - that come up all the time.
3
Actually, schools DO adjudicate a whole spectrum of behaviors that can also be matters for criminal inquiry, trial and adjudication - punch out your room mate? You can be expelled. Vandalize the dorm? Ditto. Steal from college facilities? You betcha! Penalties, including expulsion, for any of these things are determined by inquiries that don't rely on the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' standard.
1
Interesting. But still approaching it from the wrong end--the aftermath. We need to stop perpetuating the concept of sex being an adversarial situation by nature--"he" must pursue and cajole, yet not force; "she" should demur, yet not disappoint--and help young adults navigate the complex and fraught uncertainty, confusion, and pressure (internal and external) that misguidance creates.
13
Agree completely -- and I find it deeply ironic that much of the impetus for these flawed policies comes from women who refer to themselves as feminists. In the course of this debate, men are being admonished to obtain "informed consent," and women advised not to be stupid enough to go alone to a guy's room after a night of heavy drinking. Rather than reflecting a genuinely feminist on the matter, all students are being told to revert to a 1950s American view of sexuality in which the man's role is to use all the guile, charm and deceit he has at his disposal in order to persuade or otherwise manipulate a girl into having sex with him and the woman's role is to be aware of men's capacity and desire to do so and to protect her virtue by not permitting herself to fall for these deceptions. Where are all the real feminists in this debate, the ones who find the assumption it couldn't possibly be the female in any of these cases who put the moves on a guy and plied him with a drink or three in order to help him overcome his reluctance or inhibitions? God knows its happened to me.
1
We have moved beyond the taboo of all sexual encounters outside of marriage. That train has left the station. However, society has not replaced it with any type of guidelines to help vulnerable, immature teens and young adults. There is a vast difference in deciding to embark on a sexual relationship with a person you HAVE a relationship with and alcohol induced, hormone driven one and done coupling.
This requires real sex education. Not just the physical aspects with birth control and STD education thrown in. It requires lessons on interpersonal relationships, how to discuss intimate subjects with a partner, and information about the alternatives of life as an independent adult.
For thousands of years fathers decided who their children would marry. For a couple of hundred years strict religious codes kept most of those wandering in the marriage market sexually inactive. Now our children see and hear information they are not even old enough to understand.
We cannot do back to the time when women had no autonomy to decide their own future. We cannot hide, or worse, stigmatize, our sexual nature. We can educate our children to that part of marvelous part of our lives.
This requires real sex education. Not just the physical aspects with birth control and STD education thrown in. It requires lessons on interpersonal relationships, how to discuss intimate subjects with a partner, and information about the alternatives of life as an independent adult.
For thousands of years fathers decided who their children would marry. For a couple of hundred years strict religious codes kept most of those wandering in the marriage market sexually inactive. Now our children see and hear information they are not even old enough to understand.
We cannot do back to the time when women had no autonomy to decide their own future. We cannot hide, or worse, stigmatize, our sexual nature. We can educate our children to that part of marvelous part of our lives.
10
Interesting. But still approaching it from the wrong end--the aftermath. We need to stop perpetuating the concept of sex being an adversarial situation by nature--"he" must pursue and cajole, yet not force; "she" should demur, yet not disappoint--and help young adults navigate the complex and fraught uncertainty, confusion, and pressure (internal and external) this misguidance creates.
7
I have been sexually harassed ( and filed a complaint) and I have been sexually assaulted: I know the problems. Intimately. But when you deprived the accused of due process, you undermine a fundamental right upon which our judicial system is built. Guantanamo is our shame because it ignores due process. Yet we ask educators to do the same.
If assault rises to the level of being evicted from school, it should also rise to the level of being addressed by the criminal justice system. The accused should stand before an independent body and a court, not a school. Colleges currently whip in the wind for popular memes at the expense of knowledge and their reputations. We expect better from educators, if not their businessmen leaders. Title 1X is abused. I have benefited from it, but it is now destructive, even to women.
The society needs to address sexual assault, but to do so it must address the society and its communications mechanisms in total, not just in education. The mixed messages with regard to women are shockingly inconsistent, and leave women vulnerable to the worst negative perceptions - because they dominate the Internet. And they dominate younger, as small children have access to to relatively uncensored information.
Hollywood, Internet providers, communications companies and politicians can address the problems, but don't, they perpetuates them. Stand up. You have daughters, too. The images small boys see ensure their victimization.
If assault rises to the level of being evicted from school, it should also rise to the level of being addressed by the criminal justice system. The accused should stand before an independent body and a court, not a school. Colleges currently whip in the wind for popular memes at the expense of knowledge and their reputations. We expect better from educators, if not their businessmen leaders. Title 1X is abused. I have benefited from it, but it is now destructive, even to women.
The society needs to address sexual assault, but to do so it must address the society and its communications mechanisms in total, not just in education. The mixed messages with regard to women are shockingly inconsistent, and leave women vulnerable to the worst negative perceptions - because they dominate the Internet. And they dominate younger, as small children have access to to relatively uncensored information.
Hollywood, Internet providers, communications companies and politicians can address the problems, but don't, they perpetuates them. Stand up. You have daughters, too. The images small boys see ensure their victimization.
19
It's fine for colleges to have rules for behavior in place, but sexual assault is a serious crime that should be investigated by police and prosecutors, not college administrators. If it is determined that a college student committed an assault, the school can use its administrative system to discipline him however is appropriate, but he should also be held to account by the criminal justice system, just as any other criminal is.
13
I agree that sexual assault and rape should be managed by the Justice system. However, given how slow the court system progresses, there needs to be additional policies in place at Universities to protect its students (victim and accused) outside of the court system. Should an alleged victim have to continue to be lab partners with the alleged assailant? What about the accused who is ostracized by peers in the months/years before things reach the court? Expelling a convicted rapist is easy. Navigating the tangled relationships of 20 year olds in a fair and compassionate way is very hard.
7
Nobody likes a Kangaroo court. it's a hard lesson to accept that the accused has rights that must be protected as much as the accuser's. Our judgment can be fallible and evidence can be ambiguous. The more people stand on some moral high ground, the more we should be cautious.
13
The entire concept of colleges 'handling' criminal cases is compromised, and trivializes sexual assault. Sexual assault is a violent crime. It is a felony. Putting it into a 'special' category degrades the severity of the crime. I understand the reasoning for this (I teach at a well known university): it makes it more likely that students will come forward and report crimes. But the it gives rise to all sorts of 'touch-feely' thinking, which turns young women into Victorian figures whose 'honor' has been assaulted, opens young men (for the most part) to the regret=rape syndrome, and also negates the importance of responsibility for your own actions.
Yes, it is rape if a young person is assaulted when drunk, if he or she is forcibly made to have sex. But speaking as the mother of three daughters: how about not going to someone's room in the morning and taking off your clothes after a few drinks? This is not blaming the victim, it's common sense!
What we need to do is to turn this back to the courts, where it belongs, and make sure, no matter how difficult it is, that the court system can fairly and compassionately adjudicate these claims. These are legal matters and it is absolutely inappropriate, and trivializing, for colleges to be adjudicating them.
Sexual predators on college campuses know that the worst that can happen is that they are expelled, if the victims do not bring charges the real authorities. They should discover that they are misinformed.
Yes, it is rape if a young person is assaulted when drunk, if he or she is forcibly made to have sex. But speaking as the mother of three daughters: how about not going to someone's room in the morning and taking off your clothes after a few drinks? This is not blaming the victim, it's common sense!
What we need to do is to turn this back to the courts, where it belongs, and make sure, no matter how difficult it is, that the court system can fairly and compassionately adjudicate these claims. These are legal matters and it is absolutely inappropriate, and trivializing, for colleges to be adjudicating them.
Sexual predators on college campuses know that the worst that can happen is that they are expelled, if the victims do not bring charges the real authorities. They should discover that they are misinformed.
33
First, it can be common sense and also be blaming the victim. And second, why shouldn't two adults be able to have a few drinks, take off their clothes, enjoy consensual sexual activities...and then have one person decide to stop or draw a line, whether it be at oral, vaginal, or anal sex? As a society, we are still acting as if agreeing to one activity means accepting that anything might happen to you.
4
Among the broken is not only policy, but also reasoning. The results of the highly touted 2015 AAU (Association of American Universities) survey were broadly extrapolated to general university populations without any attempt to show how they were representative. The idea that the survey results might not necessarily be statistically valid was neither considered, nor found to be suitable for discussion.
13
So, you're helpful addition to the discussion is that the survey lied and women are NOT being assaulted sexually on campus?
Wow.
Go to a campus and ask around. You'll find out. You'll also find out what happens to the few women who DO report, and why so few bother to do so.
And yes, it can happen to men, too.
Wow.
Go to a campus and ask around. You'll find out. You'll also find out what happens to the few women who DO report, and why so few bother to do so.
And yes, it can happen to men, too.
5
Making my way to Downtown DC one evening last fall, the metro failed and I had to catch a ride-share around George Mason University. I shared the ride with three college aged women. As the only male in the car, their contempt and distrust of me was palpable. Mind you, I'm a middle aged gay man and was meeting my husband and friends for dinner, so assault of the women was not, in anyway, part of my fantasy calculus. I remember thinking that being a straight college aged male must be fraught with pitfalls and downright difficult.
55
I can assure you that being the only female in a car of 3 men unknown to me would elicit the same feeling. So your conclusion that it must be so hard to be a straight college aged male is a huge jump.
5
So...you think they were afraid you would assault them, and yet you characterize this emotion as "contempt" for you? It's funny (but not surprising) that you, as a gay man, seem more empathetic towards poor, "straight college aged" men and the "pitfalls" they face than towards young women who might act standoffish to an adult male stranger in an enclosed space.
4
If men created a culture among themselves that stopped rape, date rape, drugged rape, any kind of rape, women would naturally feel safer. It may be uncomfortable for college-age males to share a ride or sit in class with college-age females, but it isn't the women who brought this discomfort upon them. When men create situations where a woman, invited to a party, feels she must keep her hand over her glass to protect herself from being drugged, they should expect women to be wary. Personally, I've spent decades crossing the street when I see a guy coming toward me on a nearly empty sidewalk. I didn't ask for this. No woman has asked for this.
3
Many of us have been vocal about the title IX policy which takes the unfairness of an impossible standard for women who have been raped to get justice and reacts by shifting the impossible standard to men.
The policy makes sex seem like something that is done to women, putting the responsibility for consent squarely on men; addresses the lack of belief in women's accusations by formalizing a lack of belief in men's defense; and fails utterly to address the issue of sex, alcohol and mutual idiocy.
The result only weakens the case for women who seek redress from schools and justice from the criminal system. Now there is real reason to wonder if the guy is getting an unfair shake.
Schools should be held to a reporting standard. They should not be asked to adjudicate drunken trysts in which both parties are incapable of consent. They should provide women with counseling, a strong and fair advocate to help shepherd them through the legal system an assure that they are treated fairly; and support to keep the accused away from the accuser. But they should not be asked to be the trial court required to adjudicate based on a loose standard.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I guess there is some other rare thing which the Trump administration may be right about hiding out there.
The policy makes sex seem like something that is done to women, putting the responsibility for consent squarely on men; addresses the lack of belief in women's accusations by formalizing a lack of belief in men's defense; and fails utterly to address the issue of sex, alcohol and mutual idiocy.
The result only weakens the case for women who seek redress from schools and justice from the criminal system. Now there is real reason to wonder if the guy is getting an unfair shake.
Schools should be held to a reporting standard. They should not be asked to adjudicate drunken trysts in which both parties are incapable of consent. They should provide women with counseling, a strong and fair advocate to help shepherd them through the legal system an assure that they are treated fairly; and support to keep the accused away from the accuser. But they should not be asked to be the trial court required to adjudicate based on a loose standard.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I guess there is some other rare thing which the Trump administration may be right about hiding out there.
40
This should only be a criminal matter. I don't think universities should be in the business of deciding if someone is guilty of this crime. It's clear that universities are not respecting basic protections that the justice system upholds, and it is clear that men are, in the eyes of many, guilty until proven innocent.
51
A young friend of mine (she was in grad school at the time) told me that if she goes to a party, she keeps her hand over her drink throughout the evening. Wow. That kind of party must be real fun for women, ya think? Most women I know will cross the street if a guy approaches on the sidewalk when not many people are around. I actually have no sympathy for men on this issue, since it is men who have created the culture that includes threats to women's safety. If men would change the culture so that rape becomes a rare thing, we'd all live more happily.
2
Courts of law, not kangaroo courts!
30
Agreed. It is not always a simple topic. And that's exactly why I don't trust DeVos' judgement. She's not a complex thinker.
8
One of the things with the whole sexual assault on campus issue is that we need to be vigilant that this doesn't turn into another example of mass hysteria, where the reality gets overwhelmed by the images people assume are true and aren't. Sexual assaults on campus are very real, especially where booze is involved, and I am not trivializing it, or that government standards under Obama came about because schools looked the other way, especially division one sports schools where athletes were involved, it is a very real issue, there is no doubt.
That said, let me put this in perspective. Anyone remember the hysteria about missing kids, when kids faces were all over milk cartons, when they made it seem like kids were going missing at some ridiculous rate, claiming that 50,000 kids a year went missing? Turned out those numbers were a myth, in many ways. For one thing, the number was nowhere near that high, an FBI agent made the point that 57,000 men died in Vietnam and almost everyone knew of someone who died there, with 50k a year, how many of us knew of a missing child directly? More importantly, it left out that most of those were cases where a kid was kidnapped by someone they knew, generally custody issues and the like.
The problem? While it was good people were aware, people also went overboard, afraid to let kids out of their sight, allow them to play by themselves, and I am not sure we have recovered from that yet.
That said, let me put this in perspective. Anyone remember the hysteria about missing kids, when kids faces were all over milk cartons, when they made it seem like kids were going missing at some ridiculous rate, claiming that 50,000 kids a year went missing? Turned out those numbers were a myth, in many ways. For one thing, the number was nowhere near that high, an FBI agent made the point that 57,000 men died in Vietnam and almost everyone knew of someone who died there, with 50k a year, how many of us knew of a missing child directly? More importantly, it left out that most of those were cases where a kid was kidnapped by someone they knew, generally custody issues and the like.
The problem? While it was good people were aware, people also went overboard, afraid to let kids out of their sight, allow them to play by themselves, and I am not sure we have recovered from that yet.
45
When one in four women reported being assaulted, we are a long way from mass hysteria. I know many women who have been assaulted, and every woman I know knows more.
1
By tying justice to the threat of losing funding for the school, the prosecutions of rape allegations on campuses lose all credibility. This is driving hysteria and injustice. The punishment for a rape on campus should be allocated to the perpetrator, not the setting. It would be best if law-enforcement handled cases, not universities.
There are seldom consequences for false allegations, either, and that needs to change on campuses. The same campus machinery that publicizes allegations and stigmatizes suspects needs to operate to expose false charges as well, I have seen how this does not happen.
The university should not be a place that encourages lack of due process as this will spread to the rest of society, indeed, just as the extremism of political beliefs like "safe spacing" and "intersectionality" have begun to spread.
There are seldom consequences for false allegations, either, and that needs to change on campuses. The same campus machinery that publicizes allegations and stigmatizes suspects needs to operate to expose false charges as well, I have seen how this does not happen.
The university should not be a place that encourages lack of due process as this will spread to the rest of society, indeed, just as the extremism of political beliefs like "safe spacing" and "intersectionality" have begun to spread.
64
Then how else would you encourage colleges that drag their feet and have (as some/many clearly do) an egregious failure to properly manage sexual assault cases. Threaten to send them a stiff and awkward note?
Sometimes the only way to get a mules attention is with an appropriately applied two-by-four. Note: this is a metaphor (before you accuse me of embodying the violence of the patriarchy!!!)
Sometimes the only way to get a mules attention is with an appropriately applied two-by-four. Note: this is a metaphor (before you accuse me of embodying the violence of the patriarchy!!!)
2
Why doesn't this insanely unqualified Secretary of Education stick to the basics of improving our education system. There is no doubt that the issue of sexual assaults on campus is a very difficult one. If Trump was competent, a task force featuring bipartisan involvement could work on this, in conjunction with experts on the field. For DeVos, the issue is now (as is everything) a Christian fundamentalist political football. She is unqualified to talk about let alone work on these types of issues. Shame on every member of Congress who voted in favor of this person's nomination, knowing full well that she was just a billionaire contributor to Trump's campaign with no public policy experience whatsoever. Thanks, Republicans.
14
Whatever. I'm not crazy about her, either, but she's the current Secretary of Education, and the author makes a good case that this is a problem that is affecting people's lives — which means it needs to be addressed NOW.
1
Why did Ms Ali and the Obama administration stick to education instead of the 2011 dear colleague letter. Don't criticize an attempt to fix a broken system because you are an ideologue for the administration that broke it.
3
Because denying women their rights, and asserting that raped women are only flaunting their "victimhood' (which the American Taliban claim was caused by her openness with her sexuality) are both right-wing shibboleths, and we can't let facts get in the way of a good shibboleth, now can we?
1
"This new standard can create a powerful bias against the accused"
This assertion lacks both logic and evidence to support it. "Preponderance of the evidence" means just that - the accuser still has the burden of proof, it does not create a bias against the accused.
This assertion lacks both logic and evidence to support it. "Preponderance of the evidence" means just that - the accuser still has the burden of proof, it does not create a bias against the accused.
3
Literally, you are correct. However, in criminal cases, we employ a different burden of proof: beyond a reasonable doubt, which is far higher than a mere preponderance of the evidence. We should do the same when criminal acts are alleged, such as in these Australian marsupial university proceedings.
The "bias" part comes in with the intense pressure from women's groups and news media like the Times to find the accused guilty.
The "bias" part comes in with the intense pressure from women's groups and news media like the Times to find the accused guilty.
19
In the common law, fraud must be proven by clear and convincing evidence because of the seriousness an accusation of fraud carries with it. Even in the civil realm fraud is associated with criminality. Why would we use a lower standard for rape in a college tribunal
When an accusation of rape is preferred in criminal court, the accused has a right to a jury trial. Even if sued for rape in civil court the defendant has the right to a jury trial.
Moreover, courts of law are under no pressure to produce adjudications of guilt lest they lose funding. But that is exactly the kind of threat which colleges operate under. How can the college's sexual-assault tribunal be seen as fair, impartial and uninterested in the outcome?
When an accusation of rape is preferred in criminal court, the accused has a right to a jury trial. Even if sued for rape in civil court the defendant has the right to a jury trial.
Moreover, courts of law are under no pressure to produce adjudications of guilt lest they lose funding. But that is exactly the kind of threat which colleges operate under. How can the college's sexual-assault tribunal be seen as fair, impartial and uninterested in the outcome?
1
Wine Country - if there bias it is not related to the new evidentiary standard. College proceedings are not criminal. The difference is important. If you commit murder there is one standard to find you guilty of the crime (beyond a reasonable doubt) but a different standard to find you liable for damages to the victim's family (preponderance of the evidence). Ask OJ.
Law enforcement and the court system should handle these and all criminal cases. Universities should not. While the courts and law enforcement don't get it right every time, they are better equipped to deal with it.
14
This only makes sense if you take it out of context and pretend that a crackdown on those accused of sexual assault at universities just happened arbitrarily in a vacuum. It didn't. We have had a real problem with sexual assault on campuses, which is made exponentially worse by the unwillingness of both law enforcement and universities to take it seriously. 4 out of 5 victims of sexual assault do not even report it, citing reasons including fear of reprisal and lack of faith that it would accomplish anything. These concerns are clearly not ungrounded, as only 5% of reported rape results in an arrest, and even then only 20% of those arrests result in a prosecutor even taking the case.
So yeah, if the perpetrators of sexual violence at universities were being prosecuted and punished at anything resembling a normal rate, then universities being overly harsh on those accused could be a problem that needed addressing. Since it's well-established that that's not remotely the case, though, all you're doing is arguing that we should dismantle the only mechanism that's doing anything to try to stem the tide of sexual assault. The very last thing we need is more protections for accused rapists.
So yeah, if the perpetrators of sexual violence at universities were being prosecuted and punished at anything resembling a normal rate, then universities being overly harsh on those accused could be a problem that needed addressing. Since it's well-established that that's not remotely the case, though, all you're doing is arguing that we should dismantle the only mechanism that's doing anything to try to stem the tide of sexual assault. The very last thing we need is more protections for accused rapists.
5
It has nothing to do with universities. The same problems (under-reporting, failure of prosecution of the guilty) occur just as often off-campus. Only most NYT readers and all NYT writers spend much of their youth on campuses.
We have a real criminal justice system. If it isn't doing its job, take that to the state legislature that has responsibility for fixing it. That's why we have legislatures, democratically elected.
We have a real criminal justice system. If it isn't doing its job, take that to the state legislature that has responsibility for fixing it. That's why we have legislatures, democratically elected.
9
" 4 out of 5 victims of sexual assault do not even report it,"
If they do not report it, where does this statistic, so often seen, come from? It seems to me to have as much scientific evidence as Ms. Jackson's 90% statistic, which she had the integrity to retract.
If they do not report it, where does this statistic, so often seen, come from? It seems to me to have as much scientific evidence as Ms. Jackson's 90% statistic, which she had the integrity to retract.
2
I agree that in a perfect world, the universities wouldn't be involved in punishing students for what are actual legal crimes that the justice system should be handling. But we have to recognize the fact that the justice system is failing us here and now.
If you get a cut and start bleeding, the body will eventually resolve it on its own, but in the meantime, you bandage it to stop the bleeding. Obviously the bandage isn't part of your body's natural healing system, but ripping it off before the wound closes will still do some avoidable damage.
If you get a cut and start bleeding, the body will eventually resolve it on its own, but in the meantime, you bandage it to stop the bleeding. Obviously the bandage isn't part of your body's natural healing system, but ripping it off before the wound closes will still do some avoidable damage.
Obama's Dept of Ed went way too far with the Dear Colleague letter and some campuses have gone along with the injustice. Campuses must provide safety in the learning and living environment, provide security to all students and faculty, but not law enforcement or criminal justice. Any sexual assault complaint should be handed over immediately to local authorities just like any other complaint not on campus or not involving students. DeVos is right to revoke this overreach.
18
Too far?
Ever been raped? And then ignored? And punished, vilified, shunned, or forced from your career track for reporting?
Too far?
Ever been raped? And then ignored? And punished, vilified, shunned, or forced from your career track for reporting?
Too far?
2
If you have, then why would you not want law enforcement and criminal justice authorities to handle it properly so that the person who did it goes to prison? If you would want campus administrators to be responsible, I would wonder why. That's the point. Your emotional response ignores the true seriousness of rape and sexual assault.
1
The word “alcohol” appears eight times in the Dear Colleague Letter, including footnotes. The word “consent?” Seven times.
Fact-Preponderance of the evidence is that standard used in virtually all civil cases.
Fact- a person can be can be found responsible in a civil case and not guilty in a criminal case. CF OJ Simpson.
When the consequences are not imprisonment or confinement the preponderance of the evidence standard is routine.
The different standards exist because of the different consequences
This is JUST PRO RAPIST PROPAGANDA.
Fact- a person can be can be found responsible in a civil case and not guilty in a criminal case. CF OJ Simpson.
When the consequences are not imprisonment or confinement the preponderance of the evidence standard is routine.
The different standards exist because of the different consequences
This is JUST PRO RAPIST PROPAGANDA.
5
In civil matters, the defendant has the right to an attorney. He or she also has the right to conduct discovery, e.g. request documents, conduct depositions. The defendant even has the right to question potential jurors and challenge the use of potential jurors who exhibit bias. College inquiries and hearings often deny the accused these basic rights.
You ok with that?
You ok with that?
9
Actually civil trials have mechanisms like juries, compulsory process, discovery, rules of procedure, burden of proof allocation, presumptions that the accuser bear the burden of production and persuasion, rules of evidence and even a simple thing like an oath punishable by penalty of perjury. The school proceedings have none. Your opposition sounds like nothing but bitter man hating
2
@Vince: "Fact-Preponderance of the evidence is that standard used in virtually all civil cases."
This is true - but in a civil case, I believe a defendant is usually entitled to face and depose his accuser (the plaintiff), has a right to legal representation, and is able to challenge the selection of members of his jury. These safeguards do not seem to be usual in campus sexual assault cases. So, I don't think this is a fair comparison.
This is true - but in a civil case, I believe a defendant is usually entitled to face and depose his accuser (the plaintiff), has a right to legal representation, and is able to challenge the selection of members of his jury. These safeguards do not seem to be usual in campus sexual assault cases. So, I don't think this is a fair comparison.
1
There have been quite a few cases, when the rapists got away with the metaphorical slap on the wrist for which they deserved a far severe punishment. As a woman myself, I can see why there is a rage for not taking rape seriously. Many a times, the victim of rape also have to face slut shaming not only from men but also women who at least by the position of our gender are expected to have a bit more understanding.
Women aren't gods but mere mortals and as likely to give in to corruption and privilege as men. In short, we are just humans and feminism isn't about matriarchy. To keep this in mind, we need to understand that women can easily lie about sexual assault when they are simply regretting once they are at a distance from that experience. This isn't to downplay rape or assault but to acknowledge that women in the end are human beings and can give into the circumstances of their environment, give into lying about something as serious as rape. We need good evidence to know a rape happened than simply the word of the accuser and tougher punishment to those who can violate a person physically and sexually whether that person is just a tom dick and harry or a champion swimmer.
Women aren't gods but mere mortals and as likely to give in to corruption and privilege as men. In short, we are just humans and feminism isn't about matriarchy. To keep this in mind, we need to understand that women can easily lie about sexual assault when they are simply regretting once they are at a distance from that experience. This isn't to downplay rape or assault but to acknowledge that women in the end are human beings and can give into the circumstances of their environment, give into lying about something as serious as rape. We need good evidence to know a rape happened than simply the word of the accuser and tougher punishment to those who can violate a person physically and sexually whether that person is just a tom dick and harry or a champion swimmer.
38
Sexual violence on campuses is a real problem - years of rigorous research demonstrate this. Further, the Greek system, with its hypermasculine, misogynistic culture, along with alcohol abuse, are cited frequently as significant contributors to the problem.
Although women and men are human and lie at times, I doubt that "lying" or simple "regret" is a significant driver of sexual assault complaints. As a clinical psychologist specializing in PTSD, one of the things I have observed in my patients is that a previously traumatized individual engaging in agreed-to sexual intimacy may be triggered into a dissociated state by a normal intimate behavior. Once dissociated, all that subsequently happens feels traumatic, although the encounter is not abusive. This is a very complicated matter, and black and white responses serve no one. We need to acknowledge and respond to the true suffering in these cases, while helping the sufferer accurately identify the source of the problem. This is in no way to minimize the reality of sexual violence on college campuses, but to provide a window into the complexities of the human experience.
Although women and men are human and lie at times, I doubt that "lying" or simple "regret" is a significant driver of sexual assault complaints. As a clinical psychologist specializing in PTSD, one of the things I have observed in my patients is that a previously traumatized individual engaging in agreed-to sexual intimacy may be triggered into a dissociated state by a normal intimate behavior. Once dissociated, all that subsequently happens feels traumatic, although the encounter is not abusive. This is a very complicated matter, and black and white responses serve no one. We need to acknowledge and respond to the true suffering in these cases, while helping the sufferer accurately identify the source of the problem. This is in no way to minimize the reality of sexual violence on college campuses, but to provide a window into the complexities of the human experience.
3
The problem is that there will rarely ever be "good" evidence to prove sexual assault. Please read Lauren Germain's book Campus Sexual Assault, and learn about the myth of the perfect victim. How do we assure justice for victims who don't behave like "perfect" victims? Women who showed immediately afterward, because they just feel so dirty, or who continue to see their attackers, hoping to be able to rewrite the events and feel less powerless? This is a real question. Activists often point out that when people report a mugging, we don't ask them to prove that they didn't just give their wallets away. All the evidence suggests that false reports of rape occur at about the same rates as false reports of other crimes. How do we reconcile the lack of physical proof with justice for both victims and the (rare) falsely accused?
5
How about this: If you believe you have been a victim of sexual assault by a college student, contact the police immediately. Let them investigate. If a conviction follows, then the school can get involved to determine the perpetrator's status as a student -- although the question might be moot if the individual is incarcerated. In essence, make these cases a criminal matter, not a disciplinary one that schools are clearly unqualified to handle.
336
That sounds good on the surface, but there is a logical inconsistency embedded in this approach.
Schools can and do discipline and expel students all the time for violations of campus conduct codes that are simultaneously potentially violations of criminal law.
For example, if a college determines that a student has been stealing backpacks, the college will discipline that student in some manner. This will occur regardless of whether or not criminal authorities decide to proceed.
The question then becomes, why should campus sexual assault be treated differently?
Schools can and do discipline and expel students all the time for violations of campus conduct codes that are simultaneously potentially violations of criminal law.
For example, if a college determines that a student has been stealing backpacks, the college will discipline that student in some manner. This will occur regardless of whether or not criminal authorities decide to proceed.
The question then becomes, why should campus sexual assault be treated differently?
42
Just curious why we need campus police. This is already an overreach on the schools part, setting themselves up as gate keepers to the law of the land. This has never made sense whether it be at a school or Disney World.
24
@nyer: "...if a college determines that a student has been stealing backpacks, the college will discipline that student in some manner. "
I think I might have a problem with such a case if the college were to "determine" guilt using a "preponderance of evidence" standard, relying *solely* on the uncorroborated testimony of a single alleged victim, with no substantiating evidence or witnesses - especially if the punishment were expulsion, as seems to be the outcome with some of the campus sexual assault allegations.
I think I might have a problem with such a case if the college were to "determine" guilt using a "preponderance of evidence" standard, relying *solely* on the uncorroborated testimony of a single alleged victim, with no substantiating evidence or witnesses - especially if the punishment were expulsion, as seems to be the outcome with some of the campus sexual assault allegations.
7
Any student accused of sexual assault should be protected by "appropriate" rules and procedures, consistently applied, but those protections need not be anything nearly as broad as those afforded someone accused of a crime. Being disciplined by a college or university, even to the extent of expulsion, is not the same as being subject to fines and imprisonment.
No individual has a right to attend, or remain in attendance at an institution of higher education. Highly subjective criteria are used in admissions, and institutions have broad discretion to formulate their own discipline policies and procedures. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not a required standard.
It is striking how concerned some conservatives are with due process protections for students accused of sexual assault and so little concerned for employees threatened with loss of their livelihoods. They tend to support "at-will" employment policies and laws which allow an employee to fired for any or no reason, with no procedural safeguards, whatsoever, as long as anti-discrimination or sexual harassment laws aren't violated. Is continued attendance at a university more of a right than continuing to keep a job that supports a family?
This is a very inconsistent, and suspect, concept of rights and due process.
No individual has a right to attend, or remain in attendance at an institution of higher education. Highly subjective criteria are used in admissions, and institutions have broad discretion to formulate their own discipline policies and procedures. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not a required standard.
It is striking how concerned some conservatives are with due process protections for students accused of sexual assault and so little concerned for employees threatened with loss of their livelihoods. They tend to support "at-will" employment policies and laws which allow an employee to fired for any or no reason, with no procedural safeguards, whatsoever, as long as anti-discrimination or sexual harassment laws aren't violated. Is continued attendance at a university more of a right than continuing to keep a job that supports a family?
This is a very inconsistent, and suspect, concept of rights and due process.
85
Sorry, but I'm only surprised when so-called "Conservatives" are consistent and not contradictory and hypocritical. I think of Orren Hatch as the paradigm, a man who could vigorously defend Clarence Thomas and vigorously attack Bill Clinton, who can vigorously attack Obama for "wasteful spending" and vigorously defend Bush's blowing $3 trillion on his inane "adventures" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The accused do need to be able to mount credible defenses, but that cannot include "slut-shaming" and other defamatory practices to terrify the accuser into dropping charges. And the "Good Ol' Boy" network at many schools that protects their own needs to be neutralized. (as a grad student at UNC many years ago I was well aware of the "network" there that we've since seen blow up in their faces).
A consistent, effective, fair and universal set of practices need to be established to define and determine what is assault, and what merely is regret, and how guilt can fairly be determined, with a presumption of innocence.
My personal opinion is that by far most women who claim to have been assaulted are being truthful, but a small minority use such claims to get back at men and taint it for the vast majority of others with legitimate claims. Those few need to be weeded out to get justice and safety for the true victims.
But it's hard to see how this can happen when a predator who brags about assaulting women, BRAGS about it with no shame, is the current President of the United States.
The accused do need to be able to mount credible defenses, but that cannot include "slut-shaming" and other defamatory practices to terrify the accuser into dropping charges. And the "Good Ol' Boy" network at many schools that protects their own needs to be neutralized. (as a grad student at UNC many years ago I was well aware of the "network" there that we've since seen blow up in their faces).
A consistent, effective, fair and universal set of practices need to be established to define and determine what is assault, and what merely is regret, and how guilt can fairly be determined, with a presumption of innocence.
My personal opinion is that by far most women who claim to have been assaulted are being truthful, but a small minority use such claims to get back at men and taint it for the vast majority of others with legitimate claims. Those few need to be weeded out to get justice and safety for the true victims.
But it's hard to see how this can happen when a predator who brags about assaulting women, BRAGS about it with no shame, is the current President of the United States.
24
Going to college costs many tens of thousands of dollars, as well as four years of "opportunity cost": at a private college this might be (say) $300,000. Not a small fine. One that (ordinarily) would merit at least representation by an adult attorney well acquainted with the law . Such rights of adversarial representation are almost universally denied students in disciplinary hearings.
29
College tribunals are not required to use the 'beyond and reasonable doubt' standard, but many recent cases represent egregious violations of fair procedures. They definitely need reform.
Your analogy to employment is flawed. At-will employment is a voluntary agreement by both parties. The lower standards of evidence and fewer protections for the accused are a result of government action (Dear Colleague letter) and the threat of being investigated by state authorities. Besides, a lot of schools are state schools and considered arms of the government and should afford students appropriate due process. As far as I know, no government employees are at-will employees.
Liberals mostly care about the outcome, but conservatives make a distinction between actions by the government and private individuals. That doesn't mean they're inconsistent about their concept of rights.
Your analogy to employment is flawed. At-will employment is a voluntary agreement by both parties. The lower standards of evidence and fewer protections for the accused are a result of government action (Dear Colleague letter) and the threat of being investigated by state authorities. Besides, a lot of schools are state schools and considered arms of the government and should afford students appropriate due process. As far as I know, no government employees are at-will employees.
Liberals mostly care about the outcome, but conservatives make a distinction between actions by the government and private individuals. That doesn't mean they're inconsistent about their concept of rights.
21
The issue here is justice and due process. Sexual assaults cannot be erased by railroading the accused in secret tribunals. Reiterating that there is a problem does not justify the solutions many college campuses, and the notorious "Dear Colleague" letter, have imposed.
74
To believe that the norm is secret tribunals where the accused are railroaded is to play into the sort of logic Alex Jones has parlayed into a decent income. The Times has covered over the last few years some of the more egregious examples of women being railroaded by universities, by far the more normal and prevalent experience among college students. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply tossing out unripened rhetoric and pointing to the exception as the rule.
36
Your problem is that you are asking for justice in the wrong forum. Go to the police! Universities have no place meddling in the sex lives of students or prosecuting anyone for anything other than plagiarism or cheating.
3
Wow. All I can say is that this op-ed was penned by someone who has read some books, but has no clue what happens on a typical college campus. Women are the predominant victims, rape is usually perpetrated by acquaintances, colleges are averse to investigate, many police departments and even Sexual Assault Response Teams are populated by people who lack adequate training in the law, and in how to counsel someone who has been traumatized by rape. Word gets out that the processes are illegitimate, and only a small fraction of rapes ever trigger formal investigations, and in those cases, women often regret having engaged the process.
Title IX will only be as good as those entrusted to enforce it and ensure institutional compliance. The writer basically could not be more wrong about her assumptions. And the final insult is that a woman who wants to see something done is often asked to take courses online, while the perpetrator has free run of the campus. Add the magnification of athletes in competitive sports, and the situation only worsens.
Yes, there is a need for reform, but certainly not based on the bogus presumptions being touted by this writer.
Title IX will only be as good as those entrusted to enforce it and ensure institutional compliance. The writer basically could not be more wrong about her assumptions. And the final insult is that a woman who wants to see something done is often asked to take courses online, while the perpetrator has free run of the campus. Add the magnification of athletes in competitive sports, and the situation only worsens.
Yes, there is a need for reform, but certainly not based on the bogus presumptions being touted by this writer.
133
That this happens is a reason to improve the criminal justice system, personal behavior, and college responses, but it can not become an excuse to deprived an accused of due process. Due process is to important to our criminal justice system to abandon because one population is suffering unduly.
57
Title IX enforcement is not a success. The present situation should continue under the assumption that it might get better. Rape is difficult to determine as you note, but its determination is not improved by University employees mucking around with it.
If the action is a violation of law, the university should in all cases refer the case to the appropriate legal authorities for action. There is no useful purpose to have rank amateurs in the universities carrying out parallel investigations of crimes under a set of rules that do not conform to the legal standards guaranteed by the Constitution. It does no one any good, not the injured party nor the accused nor the university itself, to have the University render a "guilty" verdict under the "dear colleague" rules only to have the verdict overturned in a court of law. It also does no one any good to drag these cases out over years as has happened at many universities.
If the violation occurs on campus in a residence hall or elsewhere, the University as landlord or otherwise, has the legal right to enforce its own clearly stated rules that go beyond the rules of society. These can be more restrictive than the local laws and can carry penalties leading to denial of access to residence halls or even expulsion, but in all cases, these rules must be clearly stated and the normal rules of evidence must apply when timely legal action or binding arbitration is pursued by the University against a student.
If the action is a violation of law, the university should in all cases refer the case to the appropriate legal authorities for action. There is no useful purpose to have rank amateurs in the universities carrying out parallel investigations of crimes under a set of rules that do not conform to the legal standards guaranteed by the Constitution. It does no one any good, not the injured party nor the accused nor the university itself, to have the University render a "guilty" verdict under the "dear colleague" rules only to have the verdict overturned in a court of law. It also does no one any good to drag these cases out over years as has happened at many universities.
If the violation occurs on campus in a residence hall or elsewhere, the University as landlord or otherwise, has the legal right to enforce its own clearly stated rules that go beyond the rules of society. These can be more restrictive than the local laws and can carry penalties leading to denial of access to residence halls or even expulsion, but in all cases, these rules must be clearly stated and the normal rules of evidence must apply when timely legal action or binding arbitration is pursued by the University against a student.
18
A campus disciplinary proceeding is NOT a part of the criminal justice system, so the importance of due process to that system is irrelevant to the student discipline discussion. Many campuses were routinely using the preponderance of the evidence standard to address campus misconduct incidents (including those that could also be crimes under the criminal justice system) before the Dear Colleague Letter and have continued to do so. Why? Because the conduct system is not prosecuting a crime and preponderance of the evidence is the appropriate standard in a civil proceeding.
4
These cases should not be investigated or tried by the universities at all. They should go to the court system. Universities should be in the business of teaching, not criminal justice.
465
Universities have their own processes relating to student conduct. They could expel a student who admitted to rape, whereas the same perpetrator might get off in the court system, especially in more rural areas of the country.
Not that many universities deal harshly with perpetrators. Victim-blaming is a more likely outcome for many women, only the strongest among whom will stick it out and try to finish their studies.
If University administrators treated every student as if it were his or her family member, this wouldn't be allowed to happen. Politics intervene, everyone wants a clean campus safety report, and you get what you get--hardly a minefield for the wrongly accused, as the writer of this editorial would like readers to believe.
Not that many universities deal harshly with perpetrators. Victim-blaming is a more likely outcome for many women, only the strongest among whom will stick it out and try to finish their studies.
If University administrators treated every student as if it were his or her family member, this wouldn't be allowed to happen. Politics intervene, everyone wants a clean campus safety report, and you get what you get--hardly a minefield for the wrongly accused, as the writer of this editorial would like readers to believe.
6
Sexual assault cases are not tried by Universities. The criminal component of the sexual assault is handled by the police and the accused receives standard due process. The Universities are deciding if they wish to continue to have the student on their campus. That is all. Universities may choose who they wish to have on their campus and can expel students for inappropriate behavior. This is not a criminal matter. Both the police and the University will investigate the matter. The author of the article wishes to mislead the readers into believing it is one or the other. It is not, it is both. The police investigate the crime and the the University investigates if the accused violated the universities campus policies. It's not one or the other.
82
But this is social justice. It's all the rage.
Not only college students deserve better. All girls and women deserve better.
To hear the arguments about campus sexual assault, which is a very large and real problem, one would think that girls and women everywhere else are not assaulted every. day. around the clock. everywhere. all the time.
There needs to be equity, and boys and men who are wrongly accused should have their names cleared... but what about all the little girl who are assaulted and never go to college? What about the school assaults in elementary and high schools? Because for most of the women and girls who are assaulted, the abuse begins at quite young ages - single digits.
The challenge is to start young instilling deep humanity into our boys and girls. Deep enough that the boys recognize girls' humanity, deep enough that girls value their own feelings rather than acquiescing to what they don't want.
Sexual assault is part of human existence - we are primates.. chimps or bonobos..
But other countries' rates of sexual assault or far lower than in the US. We can do better. We deserve better.
Sexual assault is deep and widely accepted in our culture or it would not be so sickeningly common. People who experience trauma sometimes lose years as they sort through what happened...imagine all the lost progress and potential we continue to face because this simply does not change.
To hear the arguments about campus sexual assault, which is a very large and real problem, one would think that girls and women everywhere else are not assaulted every. day. around the clock. everywhere. all the time.
There needs to be equity, and boys and men who are wrongly accused should have their names cleared... but what about all the little girl who are assaulted and never go to college? What about the school assaults in elementary and high schools? Because for most of the women and girls who are assaulted, the abuse begins at quite young ages - single digits.
The challenge is to start young instilling deep humanity into our boys and girls. Deep enough that the boys recognize girls' humanity, deep enough that girls value their own feelings rather than acquiescing to what they don't want.
Sexual assault is part of human existence - we are primates.. chimps or bonobos..
But other countries' rates of sexual assault or far lower than in the US. We can do better. We deserve better.
Sexual assault is deep and widely accepted in our culture or it would not be so sickeningly common. People who experience trauma sometimes lose years as they sort through what happened...imagine all the lost progress and potential we continue to face because this simply does not change.
59
Ellen, I'm troubled by this statement:
"Because for most of the women and girls who are assaulted, the abuse begins at quite young ages - single digits."
Are you saying that most women who are subjected to sexual assault or rape on college campuses were sexually abused as children? I'm not sure what to make of that. It implies that rapists instinctively target abuse victims, and that somehow women who weren't sexually abused as girls know how to avoid being raped. These implications are disturbing, to say the least, and I'm not sure how well-founded this claim is.
"Because for most of the women and girls who are assaulted, the abuse begins at quite young ages - single digits."
Are you saying that most women who are subjected to sexual assault or rape on college campuses were sexually abused as children? I'm not sure what to make of that. It implies that rapists instinctively target abuse victims, and that somehow women who weren't sexually abused as girls know how to avoid being raped. These implications are disturbing, to say the least, and I'm not sure how well-founded this claim is.
2
The data is that half of all rape victims are under the age of 18 and half of those are under the age of 12.
It is totally disgusting. Men rape 1 year old girl children, even.
It is totally disgusting. Men rape 1 year old girl children, even.