My brother is eternally grateful for playing high school baseball. He was the catcher and got caught in a squeeze play which left him with a broken left leg and a seriously damaged right knee. He graduated in 1964. In 1966 he received his draft notice and reported to the induction center. He took his physical for the Army and they reclassified him as 4F. He even tried to enlist in the Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force and Coast Guard. They all rejected him as well.
2
The envelope appeared under my front door. I had salvaged my college career and was doing B work when the Greetings came. I learned that the night school at U. of Maryland was not as automatic as the regular day program. My D.C. draft board wanted to know what I was doing in the fall of 1968. My old roommate collected my mail and it appeared under my door months later. I had maybe a week to report. Frantically I contacted the Selective Service office and appeared on their D.C. doorstep. A tough lesson on personal responsibility ensued. I was granted a brief audience with the military officer assigned to that office. He listened to this shaggy college kid and he told me he believed me and that I could have 30 days to fix "my affairs". It was not a forgotten gesture. I reported for induction on May 29, 1969.
3
I joined the Marine Corps in Jan '63 and got out in June '66. I had excellent duty, went a lot of places, did a lot of things. Was "at" VN rather than "in" VN: I was on sea duty so we landed troops and steamed up and down the coast. I've been to the "Wall" in DC three times and each time began to look for names but chose instead to remember my fellow Marines and students as I knew them. I didn't (and don't) want to know their fate. I got a four-month involuntary extension of my service; but then, so did everyone else. I was 22-1/2 when I joined, believing the draft was not far away. In retrospect, my service was the most interesting 3-1/2 years of my life. Just before boarding the bus at Los Angeles Greyhound station, having been herded down from the induction center, one of our small group asked the sergeant if he had any words of wisdom. He said, "Don't lose your sense of humor." That, and a good attitude will take you far. I, too, regret the absence of universal service. One has a stake in the community.
8
I'm a Vietnam War vet, and I wish they'd bring back the draft. If everyone's kids had some skin in the game, this country wouldn't be so quick to resort to military force where it does not good. And part of being citizens is that we ALL equally should be expected to serve our country.
38
By its very existence, the draft distorted the lives of everyone in that generation! Without it, I would probably have had a different career, a different family life, etc. Of course, there is no way to know if things would have been better or worse, but more of the choices would have been my own. I ended up joining (under the duress of the draft), starting at Ft. Dix about the same time as Leepson and serving in the infantry.
I found it not very satisfying. We thought we were there to protect the "good VNs" from the "bad VNs". We eventually discovered that the VNs ALL thought we were there to be colonial overlords. We soldiers were the victims of that misunderstanding. Some soldiers were killed, some were injured, most of us had our lives disrupted by being in the military. It is essential to understand that even those who dodged, or just sweated-out their vulnerability, were disrupted, too. I have no illusion that my service and sacrifice was any more brave or noble than theirs.
I found it not very satisfying. We thought we were there to protect the "good VNs" from the "bad VNs". We eventually discovered that the VNs ALL thought we were there to be colonial overlords. We soldiers were the victims of that misunderstanding. Some soldiers were killed, some were injured, most of us had our lives disrupted by being in the military. It is essential to understand that even those who dodged, or just sweated-out their vulnerability, were disrupted, too. I have no illusion that my service and sacrifice was any more brave or noble than theirs.
23
In October 1962, I was married a mere two weeks and received my notice to report for induction. They were drafting married men at the time. So I enlisted in the USAF and became a Second Lt...a 90 day wonder. Spent the next four years helping shoot up test missiles at Cape Canaveral and Vandenberg AFB, and my wife accompanied me. That was when my peers were being shot up in Vietnam.
I had several reactions from the experience.
1. That every male should be subject to the draft, and should serve this country in some way....no exemptions for flat feet or because you are the son of a congressman. This would lessen the odds of stupid decisions by chicken hawks to invade and war against other nations. I did significant growing up in the military.
2. Remorse to this day that my small contribution helped perfect our ability to deliver nuclear bombs on other nations.
3. Disgust at the clueless Trump when he said with a straight face that we should consider nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
Its high time our beloved nation realized we cannot bend the entire world to our will.
I had several reactions from the experience.
1. That every male should be subject to the draft, and should serve this country in some way....no exemptions for flat feet or because you are the son of a congressman. This would lessen the odds of stupid decisions by chicken hawks to invade and war against other nations. I did significant growing up in the military.
2. Remorse to this day that my small contribution helped perfect our ability to deliver nuclear bombs on other nations.
3. Disgust at the clueless Trump when he said with a straight face that we should consider nuclear weapons in the Middle East.
Its high time our beloved nation realized we cannot bend the entire world to our will.
43
Drafted in "69, I went so that no one would not come home missing my leg. There was nothing glamorous about being an 11Bravo10. It's all about learning what it means to become a number.
15
I got drafted in 1972. My number was 88, although Nixon had promised not to go above 75.
Quiet bus trip from Oakland to Ft. Ord as we stewed over our fate. I realized the bus driver was the singer from my high school rock band. He pulled over at the first liquor store and we drank and fired up joints all the way to Monterey. The drill sergeants were not amused and set about teaching us how to kill other 20 year olds in Viet Nam. They decided I wasn't infantry material and kept me in the Medical Department in Chicago. Spent all my spare time playing jazz cubs. The Army show band would grab me when they went on the road, and I got us banned from Holiday Inns across the mid-west.
I used the GI bill to get a degree in music from San Jose State, where they made me the first jazz guitar instructor while I was still a student.
Fast forward, and now I find myself teaching 20 year olds at an excellent college. As much as I hated the draft, I admit it did make me 'man up.' Contemporary 20 year olds seem stuck, fearful to leap into the future. They'd rather have their brains rewired every few minutes with that hideous Steve Jobs device clutched in their hands. Heck, most males under 40 seem frozen in an infantilized state that our mercantile culture promotes.
Bring back the draft? I loathe the idea but it would level things to where all Americans would have a common stake in our country. Even the politicians who are quick with the saber rattling would find their kids at risk.
Quiet bus trip from Oakland to Ft. Ord as we stewed over our fate. I realized the bus driver was the singer from my high school rock band. He pulled over at the first liquor store and we drank and fired up joints all the way to Monterey. The drill sergeants were not amused and set about teaching us how to kill other 20 year olds in Viet Nam. They decided I wasn't infantry material and kept me in the Medical Department in Chicago. Spent all my spare time playing jazz cubs. The Army show band would grab me when they went on the road, and I got us banned from Holiday Inns across the mid-west.
I used the GI bill to get a degree in music from San Jose State, where they made me the first jazz guitar instructor while I was still a student.
Fast forward, and now I find myself teaching 20 year olds at an excellent college. As much as I hated the draft, I admit it did make me 'man up.' Contemporary 20 year olds seem stuck, fearful to leap into the future. They'd rather have their brains rewired every few minutes with that hideous Steve Jobs device clutched in their hands. Heck, most males under 40 seem frozen in an infantilized state that our mercantile culture promotes.
Bring back the draft? I loathe the idea but it would level things to where all Americans would have a common stake in our country. Even the politicians who are quick with the saber rattling would find their kids at risk.
16
Thanks for sharing your memories of being drafted. You were lucky and got a good assignment. Nowadays, I'm guessing all the those types of jobs are outsourced to defense contractors. Without a steady supply of draftees, infantry is now strictly combat--with a lot of injuries and death.
4
Muhammed Ali - "No Vietnamese ever called me nigger."
19
I'm glad you lived to tell about it.
6
I never understood why 50,000 fine american boys had to come home in body bags. why didn't the military just drop an A-bomb on Hai Phong and Hanoi and end the war? why did any any young many agree to the draft when we weren't there to win? hell, being throwing in jail or fleeing was a better or going to divinity school are better alternatives than dying in an unwinnable war.
10
My draft physical was certainly an event to remember. Standing in the line to hand in our urine samples, the kid next to me handed the clerk a bottle of bright green liquid. The clerk said “what’s wrong with you” and the kid said “it always looks like that”.
We went on to a room with desks and were told to take an intelligence test. The sergeant at the front said “I know a lot of you boys went to college, and if you think you’re going to get out of the army by failing this test, think again. If you fail we will keep you here for a week, and then make you take it again, and if you fail it again, we will draft you anyway”. After that, he gave us a list of “subversive organizations”, and gave us the same speech.
Finally, there were the lines to see a doctor for anyone who had a condition that the army should know about. There were about 150 guys in the line for the psychiatrist. I had a note, and went to see the appropriate doctor. As it turned out, my doctor spoke no English, but I was prepared. I had obtained a copy of the army medical manual and had my doctor write the note using the same phraseology as the manual. I found the correct pages in the draft doctor’s manual, showed him the note and how the words matched the manual text, and he checked my form. A few weeks later, I received my 1-Y deferment.
Everyone that I know that went to Viet Nam came back wounded, if not physically, then mentally or emotionally. I have no regrets about not going.
We went on to a room with desks and were told to take an intelligence test. The sergeant at the front said “I know a lot of you boys went to college, and if you think you’re going to get out of the army by failing this test, think again. If you fail we will keep you here for a week, and then make you take it again, and if you fail it again, we will draft you anyway”. After that, he gave us a list of “subversive organizations”, and gave us the same speech.
Finally, there were the lines to see a doctor for anyone who had a condition that the army should know about. There were about 150 guys in the line for the psychiatrist. I had a note, and went to see the appropriate doctor. As it turned out, my doctor spoke no English, but I was prepared. I had obtained a copy of the army medical manual and had my doctor write the note using the same phraseology as the manual. I found the correct pages in the draft doctor’s manual, showed him the note and how the words matched the manual text, and he checked my form. A few weeks later, I received my 1-Y deferment.
Everyone that I know that went to Viet Nam came back wounded, if not physically, then mentally or emotionally. I have no regrets about not going.
16
Thanks, I remember. We all believed in the propaganda of the times. (Vietnam 67-68) Thanks, again.
10
I joined the Army in 1964. There was no war going on in 1964. I trained at a post in Alabama, a member of the now-replaced Women's Army Corp.
After training, I was sent to For Dix and assigned to the Information Office, where I spent the rest of my two-year term writing reports and, as the war heated up, dealing with the press. At first I was not troubled by the US involvement; I thought we needed to be in Vietnam to stop Communism.
Toward the end of my term as a WAC, as the bodies began coming home, the poem by Owen, Dulce et Decorum Est, began to circulate in my brain frequently, especially the last lines about a dying soldier:
"If in some smothering dream you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face...
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory
The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria more."
I realized that my work in the Information Office, was in fact all about the old lie. I was young and clueless -- but I don't forget that most of the draftees trained at Fort Dix were even younger.
I too respect all choices made in those grim times: being drafted, going to Canada, just joining, or being a conscientious objector. But I despise the chicken-hawks who now occupy many of the top positions of our government.
After training, I was sent to For Dix and assigned to the Information Office, where I spent the rest of my two-year term writing reports and, as the war heated up, dealing with the press. At first I was not troubled by the US involvement; I thought we needed to be in Vietnam to stop Communism.
Toward the end of my term as a WAC, as the bodies began coming home, the poem by Owen, Dulce et Decorum Est, began to circulate in my brain frequently, especially the last lines about a dying soldier:
"If in some smothering dream you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face...
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory
The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria more."
I realized that my work in the Information Office, was in fact all about the old lie. I was young and clueless -- but I don't forget that most of the draftees trained at Fort Dix were even younger.
I too respect all choices made in those grim times: being drafted, going to Canada, just joining, or being a conscientious objector. But I despise the chicken-hawks who now occupy many of the top positions of our government.
19
I was drafted in 1965. Also went to Ft Dix from Newark NJ
This was a direct result of the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, which preceded the Gulf of Tonkin Lie. (An Attack that never happened, used as a ploy to start the War) Then the deaths and maiming began wholesale.
When honorably discharged in 1967 I marched to protest this meat grinder killing arrangement .
I was met with batons from police and jeering from the hard hat "Patriots".
Some protesters were shot to death by Draft Dodgers who arranged to get into the National Guard instead of going to Nam. Back then, if you knew certain people, a 6 month stint in the guard could be arranged. They were called Weekend warriors. Yes, certain of these "brave" souls actually fired on unarmed civilians who were protesting this totally unjust war that those in the Guard dodged. Today those in the guard actually go to the front lines.
"W" was given a pass by being allowed in the Air National Guard. The Oligarchs don't risk their own lives in war. Only the folks who they callously exploit for profit will get their brains blown out, not them. WMD's anyone?
This was a direct result of the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy, which preceded the Gulf of Tonkin Lie. (An Attack that never happened, used as a ploy to start the War) Then the deaths and maiming began wholesale.
When honorably discharged in 1967 I marched to protest this meat grinder killing arrangement .
I was met with batons from police and jeering from the hard hat "Patriots".
Some protesters were shot to death by Draft Dodgers who arranged to get into the National Guard instead of going to Nam. Back then, if you knew certain people, a 6 month stint in the guard could be arranged. They were called Weekend warriors. Yes, certain of these "brave" souls actually fired on unarmed civilians who were protesting this totally unjust war that those in the Guard dodged. Today those in the guard actually go to the front lines.
"W" was given a pass by being allowed in the Air National Guard. The Oligarchs don't risk their own lives in war. Only the folks who they callously exploit for profit will get their brains blown out, not them. WMD's anyone?
26
Although late in the game, I remember going through classes at the U of Arizona, 2700 miles from my home in VT, on that February draft lottery day in 1972, numb and disconnected from everything around me. I returned to 4th floor Kaibab-Huachuca dorm to find out from my friend my number was 241! What a relief. Young men were drafted up to 125 the previous year and had to report for a physical up to 215. At age 19, I knew nothing of the world and little of myself, The thought of myself, a 125lb male, going to Viet Nam terrified me. It meant one thing: tunnel rat, and short life span. I had met and interacted with young men who had been to Vietnam, some who returned with paranoia, over reactions, and other signs of PTSD. Others, like my friend Tim, a Marine wounded in 1968 at Khe Sanh, became isolated, yet outwardly was a gentle, kind human being, burying his painful memories in alcohol. He died in Alaska, not many years ago; still inwardly wounded. I think he was lucky, 58,000 died in Nam, but now I'm not so sure. I'll miss him.
24
Until the US Gov admits that we LOST the VN war, and that we wasted the lives of our soldiers and those of the VN/Laotian/Cambodian peoples, we will continue to make the same mistake over and over again.
Admitting that we lost the war and we sent those boys on a fool's errand to slaughter and be slaughtered does not detract one iota from their honor and sacrifices.
Admitting that we lost the war and we sent those boys on a fool's errand to slaughter and be slaughtered does not detract one iota from their honor and sacrifices.
19
Leepson was and, still is, my best friend from our days at GWU. He was 2 years ahead of me. A great guy then and a great guy now.
When my time came, I also wound up at the Newark AFFEES. I washed out at the physical due to a high school injury from which I suffered no ill effects. But the Army didn't want me. I've always felt a bit guilty about this. But Leepson has told me, more than once, I didn't miss a thing.
Wel, back to Leepson. He came back physically unscathed. We then roomed together until he got Luxky and got married.
Again, Marc Leepson, a great guy then and a great guy now.
When my time came, I also wound up at the Newark AFFEES. I washed out at the physical due to a high school injury from which I suffered no ill effects. But the Army didn't want me. I've always felt a bit guilty about this. But Leepson has told me, more than once, I didn't miss a thing.
Wel, back to Leepson. He came back physically unscathed. We then roomed together until he got Luxky and got married.
Again, Marc Leepson, a great guy then and a great guy now.
13
I was drafted in October, 1966 (19 years old).....spent a year in Ft. Hood, Texas and was deployed to Vietnam in January, 1968. I arrived Bien Hoa on January 29th and was greeted the following day with the infamous Tet Offensive while assigned (unarmed) to the 90th Replacement Co. at Long Binh Post. Needless to say, I didn't think I would last very long in this strange place so many miles from home.
4
By the time I was drafted at age 18 in 1972 the war was nearly over, so my lottery number of 320 seemed like overkill. Although it was strangely a relief nonetheless. But when things were hot and heavy in the late 1960s, despite my young age, I recall knowing with absolute certainty that there was no way I was going over there to die, by any means necessary, because politicians were gutless to end it. I was sure I would die if I went, and the war's lack of a decent cause was obvious to everyone at that point.
2
This sounds like a replay of the Korean "police action" draftee world to which I and my sub-generation were subjected in the early 1950's. Same deal -- two years as a draftee or three or four years in some other branch. Those who joined the Army for three years thinking that they then would have their choice of MOS usually got screwed. We all were just "bodies" to be used. The happiest day any of us experienced in our lives was the day our two years of forced service was over and we got out. -- that is for those of us lucky ones who were not killed or crippled for life.
There, of course, were no bands or victory parades like after WWII. No one much cared where you had been or had been doing. It still was a great relief to throw away your uniforms and rejoin the real world
There, of course, were no bands or victory parades like after WWII. No one much cared where you had been or had been doing. It still was a great relief to throw away your uniforms and rejoin the real world
7
Why didn't you just say you had bone spurs? It worked perfectly for some people. But I guess you were like me( USMC 1966-1970) and served our country when it needed us. I never regretted it.
7
Nicely written. Nearly identical to what I went through, but I did get the coveted 11B MOS, and spent my year on the ground. And I did go to Tigerland.
I wish you well, C. F. Lawson
I wish you well, C. F. Lawson
4
over the past decades i have been alternatively amused, bewildered and outraged when i read or heard about how rough it is for our youth.
did they have the draft hanging over their heads? no. seems to me they had it pretty easy.
(drafted sep 72, draft ended not long afterward)
did they have the draft hanging over their heads? no. seems to me they had it pretty easy.
(drafted sep 72, draft ended not long afterward)
4
I just finished reading the article and all the reader picks. As a young woman, I wasn't subject to the draft, but I felt my responsibility as a citizen very keenly--and attended my first anti-war protest in 1964. (Yes, some of us knew about it then.) I continued to protest year after year, until the war ended. My boyfriend at the time was a psych major and was worried about being drafted after graduation. I offered to go to Canada with him. He said he wanted to join the military as a psychologist in order to work stateside evaluating draftees rather than be sent to Vietnam. "So you'll send other people to kill and die in your place?" I asked. After that I broke up with him.
These stories have been fascinating. However, I'd like to see more stories told from the point of view of those who suffered most from the war: Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians. They did nothing to harm the U.S., but we slaughtered millions of them.
These stories have been fascinating. However, I'd like to see more stories told from the point of view of those who suffered most from the war: Vietnamese, Cambodians, and Laotians. They did nothing to harm the U.S., but we slaughtered millions of them.
6
My RSN was 123. Student deferments were eliminated and I was 1-H.
But the draft ended.
Funny how, back then, if you said it was against your faith to kill another person even in war you were called a coward and a commie.
Today, if you say it is against your faith to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, you are a hero standing up for the cause of religious freedom, the constitution and the American way of life.
But the draft ended.
Funny how, back then, if you said it was against your faith to kill another person even in war you were called a coward and a commie.
Today, if you say it is against your faith to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, you are a hero standing up for the cause of religious freedom, the constitution and the American way of life.
22
I graduated from Temple University in May, 1953. Was drafted
into the army for 2 years and served it at Fort Leonard Wood, MO. It was a horrible, worn out, left over from WWII where they would put the nozzle in if they wanted to give the army an enema. I was married at the time and we found an apartment in Lebanon MO, 40 miles west of the base wherein
I had to travel 40 miles each way every day on famous Rte. 66, a two lane suicide road with three or four places you could pass another vehicle between Lebanon and the Fort. The area was in the Ozark Mountains and I used to look for Li'l Abner on the streets of Lebanon and he and Pansy Yocum were there every day. If I had to do it over again, I'd kill myself first.
into the army for 2 years and served it at Fort Leonard Wood, MO. It was a horrible, worn out, left over from WWII where they would put the nozzle in if they wanted to give the army an enema. I was married at the time and we found an apartment in Lebanon MO, 40 miles west of the base wherein
I had to travel 40 miles each way every day on famous Rte. 66, a two lane suicide road with three or four places you could pass another vehicle between Lebanon and the Fort. The area was in the Ozark Mountains and I used to look for Li'l Abner on the streets of Lebanon and he and Pansy Yocum were there every day. If I had to do it over again, I'd kill myself first.
9
I find the situation odd. Adults would go to college to avoid war. Now adults go to war to afford college. Something is wrong here.
17
A few refused to sign the loyalty oath with its obnoxious "disclaimer" affidavit. But eventually they would also be up for grabs. The condom part got me. Imagine rick perry telling the newbies how abstinence works. It's all such a crock. Amazing so few see through it....or maybe they do.....
2
America absolutely needs a draft fairly applied to all citizens, to fight wars we now engage in with a tiny sliver of Americans naive enough to conflate patriotism with enlistment for America-damaging adventures like Bush's War of Choice in Iraq.
This piece is underwhelming and rightly so. During serious wars (WW2 etc.) casualty rates of 5-6% or so are considered unsupportable, the rate in Vietnam was minuscule compared to that even, and as such the use of the term "cannon fodder" only serves to reinforce the selfish nitwit approach to being a citizen promulgated by today's snowflake kids. That process creates a nation where everyone runs from responsibility to act against a war, and the government can be as evil as it likes with out military using Americans that just don't get it.
It is a draft that mitigates war and all of it's horrors and expenses. Given today's enlistee only military we'd probably still be in Vietnam.
This piece is underwhelming and rightly so. During serious wars (WW2 etc.) casualty rates of 5-6% or so are considered unsupportable, the rate in Vietnam was minuscule compared to that even, and as such the use of the term "cannon fodder" only serves to reinforce the selfish nitwit approach to being a citizen promulgated by today's snowflake kids. That process creates a nation where everyone runs from responsibility to act against a war, and the government can be as evil as it likes with out military using Americans that just don't get it.
It is a draft that mitigates war and all of it's horrors and expenses. Given today's enlistee only military we'd probably still be in Vietnam.
3
I am also from that era. I was graduating engineering school and there were a million job offers in 1968. I would openly ask about how many new engineers hired last year are now drafted. And they would give straight answers. I went with an oil company at a NJ refinery. They told me they had no engineers drafted since they opened the facility in 1909. Good enough for me.
My local draft board rejected the application for an industrial deferment. So they appealed it to the state appeals board. I had to sign the application, and read some of the documentation. It made it sound like I was running the place, and without me, all the helicopters in Vietnam would have no lubricating oil. The State Board granted my deferment.
I wound up working as a field supervisor. It was a dangerous place, and I was on the emergency response squad. Out of around 700 field employees, we killed on average 2 or 3 a year. Probably as dangerous as if I had been drafted. When the lottery occurred, I pulled a high number, waived my deferment, quit, and went on to graduate school, free of the draft.
A friend of mine decided that if he was going to Vietnam, he was going as a civilian, and going to make a lot of money. He got a job with a container freight company, helped run a terminal in Vietnam. And on the side, smuggled in goods on the black market. He got a Ford Mustang into Vietnam, and sold it for 10 times its USA price.
My local draft board rejected the application for an industrial deferment. So they appealed it to the state appeals board. I had to sign the application, and read some of the documentation. It made it sound like I was running the place, and without me, all the helicopters in Vietnam would have no lubricating oil. The State Board granted my deferment.
I wound up working as a field supervisor. It was a dangerous place, and I was on the emergency response squad. Out of around 700 field employees, we killed on average 2 or 3 a year. Probably as dangerous as if I had been drafted. When the lottery occurred, I pulled a high number, waived my deferment, quit, and went on to graduate school, free of the draft.
A friend of mine decided that if he was going to Vietnam, he was going as a civilian, and going to make a lot of money. He got a job with a container freight company, helped run a terminal in Vietnam. And on the side, smuggled in goods on the black market. He got a Ford Mustang into Vietnam, and sold it for 10 times its USA price.
8
Thank you. That was truly interesting. That was my era too, the 60s, but as a woman couldn't be drafted. I had a boyfriend who joined up and ended in Thailand. He was drafted but apparently joined after I broke up with him. I remember getting letters from him from San Francisco as well as Thailand. Brings back old memories. Thanks, again.
5
I meant he wasn't drafted but joined up. I didn't review my comment. :(
1
The draft ended shortly after I signed up so I have no trauma associated with the war. My brother was drafted but did his easy—beer sloshed tour—in Germany.
Over the years, I have worked with a fair number of people that were in combat in Vietnam. The scenarios they described would make anyone’s brain hurt with miserable pain. Try to picture a dawn ambush with RPGs by opposing soldiers that are about the distance away of one’s neighbors across the street as an example. It still amazes me how Vietnam vets have returned with their sanity intact to lead normal lives. Those vets were not treated with enough respect on their return. Obviously, the middle east wars have similar horrors and too many of soldiers will suffer as a result—and there is no end in sight.
The people that send our troops into battle should be required to send some of their close relatives into the battle. As a minimum, the draft should be reinstated for major conflicts as that will really define if the people are behind the war. Of course, that will never happen as poetic justice only happens in movies.
Over the years, I have worked with a fair number of people that were in combat in Vietnam. The scenarios they described would make anyone’s brain hurt with miserable pain. Try to picture a dawn ambush with RPGs by opposing soldiers that are about the distance away of one’s neighbors across the street as an example. It still amazes me how Vietnam vets have returned with their sanity intact to lead normal lives. Those vets were not treated with enough respect on their return. Obviously, the middle east wars have similar horrors and too many of soldiers will suffer as a result—and there is no end in sight.
The people that send our troops into battle should be required to send some of their close relatives into the battle. As a minimum, the draft should be reinstated for major conflicts as that will really define if the people are behind the war. Of course, that will never happen as poetic justice only happens in movies.
10
In college I had the same conversations most everyone else had. I was drafted in 1967, just prior to graduation, and decided to enlist (USN) in order to have the time to graduate.
I simply did not like the other options of going to jail or Canada nor did I have moral convictions about the war. I thought the war was wrong for political and military reasons, not moral ones.
I suspect coming out the other end after 3 years 10 months and 13 days (Viet Nam 1968) physically and mentally more or less unscathed colors my view, but my enlistment was priceless in that it showed me an entirely new and different world than the one in which I was raised and accustomed. And I found a civilian career path that I followed to retirement. I was lucky.
I simply did not like the other options of going to jail or Canada nor did I have moral convictions about the war. I thought the war was wrong for political and military reasons, not moral ones.
I suspect coming out the other end after 3 years 10 months and 13 days (Viet Nam 1968) physically and mentally more or less unscathed colors my view, but my enlistment was priceless in that it showed me an entirely new and different world than the one in which I was raised and accustomed. And I found a civilian career path that I followed to retirement. I was lucky.
7
Concur. Military service is never the wrong choice. If you're not fit for it then that is due to your own failures/shortcomings. One of the most valuable life lessons I learned was on the day I enlisted. For a year I had been promised a specific, high tech (for the 1970's) MOS by the recruiter who walked the halls of my high school. He was a regular fixture, as all the branches were since the lone guidance counselor was engaged to the USN Commander who was in charge of all Navy recruiting for the NYC area. At Fort Hamilton, I was shown an enlistment for the MPs. When I told the SSgt that my recruiter had promised me a tech school, he slammed his hands on the table, leaned across the table nose to nose and told me in no uncertain terms that I was to serve my country because my country wasn't there to serve me. That the world does not revolve around me is one of the most important lessons I learned in life.
2
July 22, 2017
Just to flavor to this topic - I myself volunteered for Army Service and completed my tour in Vietnam and stateside for four months completing my contribution to the cause. Why and what was my outcome is a strong belief in the service to the nation and to anti communism that was evil, atheistic and land grabbing violence - So today we have the remnants of Socialism and Putin its own reconstituted version in the Crimea, etc. So while I not drafted let it be said that I drafted myself with one brother pro Castro and two other brothers in military service in Europe - Berlin and Bavaria - being part of history for the cause that is deemed worthy is a leap of faith and for those that avoided the draft - I just know the more of us together better the outcome for our family, nation, and world of freedom. liberty with honor.
jja NY NY - SP5 Class Trained in Military Police in Vietnam during the Tet Offensives that was trans-formative.
Just to flavor to this topic - I myself volunteered for Army Service and completed my tour in Vietnam and stateside for four months completing my contribution to the cause. Why and what was my outcome is a strong belief in the service to the nation and to anti communism that was evil, atheistic and land grabbing violence - So today we have the remnants of Socialism and Putin its own reconstituted version in the Crimea, etc. So while I not drafted let it be said that I drafted myself with one brother pro Castro and two other brothers in military service in Europe - Berlin and Bavaria - being part of history for the cause that is deemed worthy is a leap of faith and for those that avoided the draft - I just know the more of us together better the outcome for our family, nation, and world of freedom. liberty with honor.
jja NY NY - SP5 Class Trained in Military Police in Vietnam during the Tet Offensives that was trans-formative.
2
I never imagined I would say this, but the best thing for this country would be universal service. Either the military, or programs such as VISTA. Everyone serves, and people from every walk of life learn to deal with one another. As for waging war, my guess is that if everyone has skin in the game, we'll be more cautious about imperial ventures. Vietnam apparently taught our senior leadership to rely on a small professional army. Today we see the terrible limits of that, not only in terms of waging endless wars, but in terms of allowing the few to fight, while the privileged stay home.
15
There needs to be a draft but it can only be for military service. Who would enlist in the Marines and do three tours in Afghanistan if they could instead get credit for helping second graders read?
3
wonderful story with a good outcome thankfully for you
4
Fifty years ago yesterday, while a full time student refusing a II-3 draft deferment, I stood in the Chicago induction center and refused to step forward. I refused to be drafted.
Six months from today will be the 50th anniversary of my conviction for draft refusal ans sentencing to 5 years in a federal penitentiary.
I'd do it again. This time louder, prouder and better.
Six months from today will be the 50th anniversary of my conviction for draft refusal ans sentencing to 5 years in a federal penitentiary.
I'd do it again. This time louder, prouder and better.
20
If you refuse to serve your country, you shouldn't be permitted to enjoy all the benefits of citizenship like protection under the law (contract rights, labor law, etc.), participate in programs like SS and Medicare, hold a civil service job or security clearance, take deductions on your takes, obtain a professional or even driver license.
5
Accepted into the VISTA program early 1970. Graduated from college May 1970. (Draft number was 114.) Drafted into the Army end of Oct 1970. I went in front of the Draft Board to ask for a deferment so I could go to VISTA. But the old men in ties and suit coats had already made their decision. So I was drafted. After basic was assigned to Fort Sam for operating room tech school. Enjoyed it. Then sent to Germany as many of the OR techs in Germany were sent to VN. Discharged from the Army and continued my medical career as a physician assistant. Lucky.
But nearly all the eligible young men in my small farming community were drafted and sent to VN. A few did not come back alive. And many came back injured.
25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) combat deaths in VN.
Yes a waste of so many of our countrymens lives.
But nearly all the eligible young men in my small farming community were drafted and sent to VN. A few did not come back alive. And many came back injured.
25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) combat deaths in VN.
Yes a waste of so many of our countrymens lives.
14
Today we need a fair, no excuses draft. Where the call list is sorted by Adjusted Gross Income. Those with most to lose go first and given the privilege of defending their good fortune. Only with a draft is the country held accountable for its decisions. A country that does not share risks and hardships of war is not worth defending.
21
While every 18 year old male has an obligation to serve, it makes absolutely no sense to have private high school graduates whose parents paid $10-30,000 a year for high school to enter military service that today pays poorly and which would only offer a stipend if we brought back the draft. Talk about a poor ROI.
3
During the Vietnam war, every graduating medical student in the US was certain to be drafted to serve in the military, even those of us with conditions that might exclude us were we not physicians. I knew many persons in my schooI, family and neighborhood who served in the military. I met some terrific people whom I would not have otherwise come to know, learned much about teamwork, and have an abiding respect for our US military. I am proud to be a drafted US military veteran.
However, presently I do not know anyone in my community and family with members in the military. Our military does not benefit from having a more diverse membership that a draft provides. Our present military has disproportionate numbers of rural, southern states membership, given that we now have an all volunteer force.
I would never have served in the military were it not for the draft. Maybe we are missing something by not encouraging all young people to serve their county. Also, maybe having an ongoing active draft might have helped our country better decide about initiating these non-ending wars.
However, presently I do not know anyone in my community and family with members in the military. Our military does not benefit from having a more diverse membership that a draft provides. Our present military has disproportionate numbers of rural, southern states membership, given that we now have an all volunteer force.
I would never have served in the military were it not for the draft. Maybe we are missing something by not encouraging all young people to serve their county. Also, maybe having an ongoing active draft might have helped our country better decide about initiating these non-ending wars.
17
I was just over 26 when the lottery was established, but was theoretically eligible for the draft to age 35 because of deferments for college and then my teaching occupation.
But I saw my students dealing with this issue and felt I had to do something more concrete to register my objection to that war.
I came from a family of pacifists and had registered as a conscientious objector (CO) when I registered for the draft years before. But the deferments had precedence.
So I decided to give up my occupational deferment and make my draft board deal with my CO claim. Had they not classified me as a CO I would have appealed, and if the appeal had failed and they had drafted me, I would have refused induction (I discussed this with my wife). I decided that prison was better than going to Canada as the latter would not have sent the message I intended.
However, the outcomes where I might get drafted or even called to alternative service were unlikely, as I knew at the time, so my protest was basically just symbolic. As it happened, my draft board did recognize my CO claim, and I was never called for alternative service.
I respect all who served, either in the military or in alternative service, and all who went to Canada or prison. These were difficult choices.
I have no respect for the chickenhawks who did everything they could to evade the draft, but have no compunction about sending others into combat to die. This includes several POTUSes.
But I saw my students dealing with this issue and felt I had to do something more concrete to register my objection to that war.
I came from a family of pacifists and had registered as a conscientious objector (CO) when I registered for the draft years before. But the deferments had precedence.
So I decided to give up my occupational deferment and make my draft board deal with my CO claim. Had they not classified me as a CO I would have appealed, and if the appeal had failed and they had drafted me, I would have refused induction (I discussed this with my wife). I decided that prison was better than going to Canada as the latter would not have sent the message I intended.
However, the outcomes where I might get drafted or even called to alternative service were unlikely, as I knew at the time, so my protest was basically just symbolic. As it happened, my draft board did recognize my CO claim, and I was never called for alternative service.
I respect all who served, either in the military or in alternative service, and all who went to Canada or prison. These were difficult choices.
I have no respect for the chickenhawks who did everything they could to evade the draft, but have no compunction about sending others into combat to die. This includes several POTUSes.
54
At 74, having lived through the era described herein, I long ago concluded our Vietnam experience was a total waste. Total. Waste.
12
I was drafted a year earlier. I'd come home from the Peace Corps and applied and was accepted at a Graduate School and LBJ sent me his letter, so I appealed to the draft board. The woman who ran it told me, with a wide sarcastic grin that "Being in the Peace Corps does not excuse you from serving your country."I was recruited and had been admitted to Intelligence after going from U.S. to R.A. and adding a year. Then they told me: "Oops because you were in the Peace Corps you can't be in Intelligence." Apparently a bill was in place to ban volunteers from joining intelligence to reduce the fear that volunteers would be CIA spies.
I also served as a clerk but luckily in Italy.
I also served as a clerk but luckily in Italy.
2
It must be difficult, if not impossible, for people who grew up after the draft ended to understand the impact of the Vietnam era draft on an entire generation of young men. We were all faced with a series of difficult choices with potentially lifelong consequences: (i) risk induction and likely combat service in Vietnam, which could result in death or serious injury, (ii) enlist in the military, with a longer term of service and lower, but not non-existent, risk of combat service in Vietnam, (iii) refuse induction and risk prison and the lifelong consequences of a felony conviction, (iv) flee to Canada, perhaps never able to return without the risk of prosecution or (v) try to find a deferment under rules that seemed to change all the time and were administered differently by different draft boards. These are terrible choices to be faced with in your late teens or early 20's and it is not surprising that draft related issues dominated high schools and colleges during this period. My own story started like my Leepson's, except that I was accepted at Officers Candidate School and served on active duty for three years and four months, but never in a combat zone.
Whenever an article like this is published there are always a few comments that advocate reinstating the draft -- I cannot imagine a worse policy choice, one that could only be advocated by someone who does not understand its consequences for the men (and women?) who would be subject to it.
Whenever an article like this is published there are always a few comments that advocate reinstating the draft -- I cannot imagine a worse policy choice, one that could only be advocated by someone who does not understand its consequences for the men (and women?) who would be subject to it.
5
Thank you for this.
4
It all sounds familiar to me except I traded two years in the Army or Marines for four years in the Air Force. 1970-4 after losing my student deferment due to graduation from college. Looking back I do not regret my choice. I felt that I was honoring the wishes of my mother and father who did not raise me to become cannon fodder and told me so. I was sent to Vietnam, but merely "in country," not "in combat" covering Nixon's withdrawal from Vietnam. After a "successful" four years as an enlisted man I returned to school. However, going near a military base, e.g. going to the air show at a local air base, still gives me the creeps.
5
Thank you. You are one of the few people who understands why I prefer not to watch the Blue angels.
I fled to the USAF in 1970 when I got the note from Pres Nixon "...pleased to inform you that you have been selected to serve...". With the lottery in place, some of the uncertainty disappeared; I was certain to be drafted by the end of the summer, as a healthy I-A.
It was OK. Basic was OK. Serving was OK. I was never closer to the war than Kadena AFB in Okinawa.
Some of my younger colleagues think veteran status doesn't apply if you weren't in 'Nam. I guess I am a bonafide veteran of the draft, one of the last. OK.
It was OK. Basic was OK. Serving was OK. I was never closer to the war than Kadena AFB in Okinawa.
Some of my younger colleagues think veteran status doesn't apply if you weren't in 'Nam. I guess I am a bonafide veteran of the draft, one of the last. OK.
Thanks for that! In July of 1967 I had started a summer fellowship at McArdle Cancer Research Institute and enrolled in Med school. I was in Madison, WI, and many of us were opposed to the war in Viet Nam, but felt empathy for our brothers (and sisters) being drafted, so we tried to "do our part for the war effort". A group of us med students car-pooled down to the Induction Center in Milwaukee and walked the long line of frightened teens and 20 somethings asking this question: "Do you believe in this war and want to go to Viet Nam?" If they answered in the negative, we taught them some very simple physiological tricks to beat the physical exam. When those fellows emerged with broad smiles and their 4F's, they hugged our necks. We had done our part to serve the true interests of our America! God bless all who weren't so lucky, but we did what we could with what we had to save lives and prevent unnecessary loss of life. We thought that was what we were in Med school to learn. No regrets.
14
You didn't prevent any loss of life -- only shifted the burden to those who were drafted instead of the people you counseled.
13
No regrets. How about you?
2
I, too, remember sitting in front of the tv waiting for the numbers of our boyfriends to be drawn. They weren't. But one of our guys didn't want to wait for fate, so he enlisted in the Marine Corps; became a sergeant, led a platoon, survived and returned home. His sisters said he screamed in his sleep the first 6 months he was home. Last I heard he was happy enough running a country and western bar that also serves as a haven for vets, wjhere he also does charity events for them. He was 18.
10
My brother-in-law was in a tank in Vietnam. He has never talked about his experiences there other than that they had a pet monkey that jumped on to the treads while they were moving once. My brother flunked out of college and joined rather than wait to be drafted. He got in to Military Intelligence and learned Vietnamese. He spent a year at a base presumably listening to radio transmissions. Me? I'm glad I turned 18 in 1975.
3
Marc,
You've captured the eerie world of cots in big gyms, trucks in big planes, all with a curtain of darkness in front of the next day. Remarkable! I was a 2nd Lt. at Dix in a basic training company just 5 years before you....."your other right, private"....
You've captured the eerie world of cots in big gyms, trucks in big planes, all with a curtain of darkness in front of the next day. Remarkable! I was a 2nd Lt. at Dix in a basic training company just 5 years before you....."your other right, private"....
4
My story is a variation of Marc Leepson's. I got my draft notice in the fall of 1968 and had two weeks to decide whether I would rather enlist for one or two extra years to avoid that dreaded combat MOS, 11 Bravo. After consulting relatives and recruiters from every branch of the military, I decided to enlist for four years with the intent of joining the Army Security Agency--but only if I passed the FBI background check to get the necessary top secret security clearance for the ASA. That I did. I ended up serving in West Germany far from Vietnam with a great group of brainy guys and cutups. I had a wonderful military experience except for Basic Training in "Little Korea," i.e. Fort Leonard Wood. Enlisting was the second wisest decision of my life--after marrying my wife.
5
I drew #286 in the draft lottery as a junior in College in Boston. The luckiest thing ever to happen to me. Every college male in that city was glued to the live television broadcast of pulling numbered ping-pong balls out of a cage. Your life was determined by the luck of the draw. My best friend in High school joined the army to become a helicopter pilot. His chopper was shot down in the Ah Tran Valley, the last major battle of the war. He survived the accident only to be shot dead in his pilot seat. A fellow student drew #1. "What did I win?", he asked.
12
I was drafted on Friday the 13th in late 1966 and reported for basic training at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas.
Well, it was a little more complicated than that.
I had heard that people from my town went to Fort Polk, a place with a truly frightening reputation. My next step was to find a Texas city where draftees reported to someplace other than Fort Polk. Once I identified that "someplace" I dressed up in a coat and tie - borrowed a brief case - and went to my local draft board and I told them I had business outside town and I could I report at my business destination. They said yes, and I eventually made my way to Fort Bliss.
My first night in a holding barracks was memorable. After the room went dark, I saw shadowy profiles of guys tossing and turning. Some were crying. I don't if anyone slept that night including me. Finally I was assigned to a basic training company. I was never really worried about going to Vietnam. After all, I had accumulated a lot of college hours and was an experienced clerk. Besides with my social graces, surely the army would make me a general's aide.
Wrong. They line you up at the end of basic training and call out your assignment. I was headed for advanced infantry training. Next thing I know I’m in the middle of a John Wayne movie.
What kept me alive? Advice from a wise colleague, namely that if I had to go, then just be the best soldier that you can and you’ll never have any regrets.
Well, it was a little more complicated than that.
I had heard that people from my town went to Fort Polk, a place with a truly frightening reputation. My next step was to find a Texas city where draftees reported to someplace other than Fort Polk. Once I identified that "someplace" I dressed up in a coat and tie - borrowed a brief case - and went to my local draft board and I told them I had business outside town and I could I report at my business destination. They said yes, and I eventually made my way to Fort Bliss.
My first night in a holding barracks was memorable. After the room went dark, I saw shadowy profiles of guys tossing and turning. Some were crying. I don't if anyone slept that night including me. Finally I was assigned to a basic training company. I was never really worried about going to Vietnam. After all, I had accumulated a lot of college hours and was an experienced clerk. Besides with my social graces, surely the army would make me a general's aide.
Wrong. They line you up at the end of basic training and call out your assignment. I was headed for advanced infantry training. Next thing I know I’m in the middle of a John Wayne movie.
What kept me alive? Advice from a wise colleague, namely that if I had to go, then just be the best soldier that you can and you’ll never have any regrets.
11
In 1968 when I turned 18 II was in my first year at UC Berkeley where there were frequent anti-war protests, often violent, resulting in heavy police presence and tear gas (once by helicopter). It was also the year of the horrendous My Lai massacre (which the Pentagon calls an "incident").Believing violence in any form was not the answer, I filed for conscientious objector status and helped start a group that provided nonviolent alternative methods of opposing the war. When David Harris, Joan Baez and Ira Sandperl spoke on campus I became convinced a CO was not going far enough. It put the decision about whether I was willing to kill in the hands of others and reinforced the legitimacy of the Selective Service. I decided the best way to help stop the immoral and unjust Vietnam War, and the draft helping to fuel it, was to turn in my draft card and help to organize the draft resistance movement. We ended up collecting thousands of draft cards on the Berkeley campus and sent them back to the Selective Service.
Ultimately, the draft resistance and larger anti-war movement had a major impact on ending the draft in 1972 and soon after, the war itself, documented here: www.boyswhosaidno.com/draft-resistance-movement-led-to-the-collapse-of-t...
Ultimately, the draft resistance and larger anti-war movement had a major impact on ending the draft in 1972 and soon after, the war itself, documented here: www.boyswhosaidno.com/draft-resistance-movement-led-to-the-collapse-of-t...
8
In 1964 my identical twin brother and I were drafted as physicians. On our way to Fort Sam where we were to receive medical officer training we received the news that our dear friend, Dick Sather, was shot down and killed in the Gulf of Tonkin raid - the first Navy pilot to die in Vietnam. Our grief has never ended, but our bitterness increased as we listened over the next two years to blatant lies told by our leaders in Washington about this very ugly war. My twin and I were assigned to a general hospital in Tokyo where we saw some of the tragic results of this conflict in the form of senseless casualties.
This might explain to some of my friends and associates why I continue to this day signing my messages with:
Peace,
Don
This might explain to some of my friends and associates why I continue to this day signing my messages with:
Peace,
Don
75
I had a marginally low number, so I was called in for a physical. I remember sitting in the draft center waiting room reading "Loves Labours Lost" because I was missing my final exam in Shakespeare comedies that day.
The man to my left showed me holes in his arm where he had been "shooting up" to look like he was a drug addict. The man to my right said that he had studied with a doctor to learn how to successfully fail a hearing test. I failed because I was "under weight" !
My father said, "If you go to war, you won't come back in a wooden box, you will come back in a patted cell."
The man to my left showed me holes in his arm where he had been "shooting up" to look like he was a drug addict. The man to my right said that he had studied with a doctor to learn how to successfully fail a hearing test. I failed because I was "under weight" !
My father said, "If you go to war, you won't come back in a wooden box, you will come back in a patted cell."
3
I turned 18 six months after the draft ended, having spent my high-school years listening to all the folklore about how to avoid the draft (my favorite was "drink a quart of maple syrup before your physical and then act shocked when they tell you you have diabetes." Yeah, that'd work) I was wondering if maybe I shouldn't just volunteer upon graduation and get it over with., then it ended and I considered myself lucky, and since then have never griped about paying taxes or going on jury duty.
A few years later a dermatologist mentioned that my acne was so severe it would keep me from joining the army. All that worry for nothing.
A few years later a dermatologist mentioned that my acne was so severe it would keep me from joining the army. All that worry for nothing.
8
I was drafted in May of 1968. I viewed the Vietnam was as a moral disaster for the nation. Many of my friends joined the reserves where they would avoid overseas deployment, many chose the National Guard for the same reason. And many concocted physical ailments to fail the medical tests.
I could not choose those routes. It seemed to me that if I did not go, some working class kid or African American would go in my place.
They wanted me in the infantry, but all the advanced infantry schools were full, so they made me a combat engineer .The Army said I should go to Officers
Training School because the only other certainty was Vietnam. At the time we were loosing 200 soldiers at week in the war, but we knew a second lieutenant's life expectancy was 30 seconds in a fire fight.
As a result I spent a year in the combat engineers in an infantry division.
Looking back, my battalion actually saved many Vietnamese live by clearing the roads they used of mines, but we knew we were on the wrong side. The Army for me became the way to continue to live in the United States where a I though that the mistake of the war would never be repeated.
We were, of course, wrong.
But what galls us the most is that Bush,Clinton and now Trump evadeded the war with no adverse consequences. Trump had a "heal spur" or some other fraudulent excuse.. To me he can't be commander in chief of anything.
That's the way things look from here.
I could not choose those routes. It seemed to me that if I did not go, some working class kid or African American would go in my place.
They wanted me in the infantry, but all the advanced infantry schools were full, so they made me a combat engineer .The Army said I should go to Officers
Training School because the only other certainty was Vietnam. At the time we were loosing 200 soldiers at week in the war, but we knew a second lieutenant's life expectancy was 30 seconds in a fire fight.
As a result I spent a year in the combat engineers in an infantry division.
Looking back, my battalion actually saved many Vietnamese live by clearing the roads they used of mines, but we knew we were on the wrong side. The Army for me became the way to continue to live in the United States where a I though that the mistake of the war would never be repeated.
We were, of course, wrong.
But what galls us the most is that Bush,Clinton and now Trump evadeded the war with no adverse consequences. Trump had a "heal spur" or some other fraudulent excuse.. To me he can't be commander in chief of anything.
That's the way things look from here.
17
I was drafted in '69 - jokes on the bus to Fort Dix, "Wait a minute, isn't this the bus to Connecticut?" - trained as a medic, sent to Germany with field artillery. Painted things green, handed out APC tablets, learned to take chest x-rays - saw one gunshot wound, a guy had gone into the wrong nightclub downtown. Just a small caliber hole in his calf. Probably seemed worse to him.
I've often thought we should have the draft back - without the academic deferment. To avoid the apparent indifference. And yet, it would still be just a tiny minority who served, I wonder if it would make any difference? And there are the real arguments about personal freedom as opposed to social obligation. Not all questions have answers, not all problems have solutions.
I've often thought we should have the draft back - without the academic deferment. To avoid the apparent indifference. And yet, it would still be just a tiny minority who served, I wonder if it would make any difference? And there are the real arguments about personal freedom as opposed to social obligation. Not all questions have answers, not all problems have solutions.
3
I graduated from a college far from reserve units in '69, made the rounds of reserve unitsand decided it didn't make sense to do the 1st year of law school and then be inducted. My safety school (U of Pa) would take a $100 deposit and I could start at the beginning of any year, ask for a refund or they "would pay it to my estate."
I went to the Syracuse, NY, induction center on Oct 15. I met a high school classmate who told me he had talked his way into a methadone program without using heroin: "rejected "
We were taken into a room with a Marine Drill Instructor who said they were drafting, but preferred volunteers. No one did. He picked up a clipboard and announced he would just call a name unless someone volunteered. No one moved. He frowned, flipped the papers, called my name and told me to stand up. Everybody else exhaled. He said I was taken, to sit down, calling for a volunteer again. I was the only one breathing. After a few minutes he disgustedly called another name and took him away. SOP I learned years later.
I went to Ft Dix for Basic. In contrast to the recent account of Parris Isl.,our cadre were all decorated multi-tour Airborne Rangers, 1 DS per platoon with 1 troop pusher. WWII barracks, no hazing, bad food, hard work and fair treatment. They took care of "their" men. Two with injuries were supported in refusing Army surgery: medical discharges. They gave tips, we listened "tight". They were leaders and respected, not feared. I went to Alaska, not Nam later.
I went to the Syracuse, NY, induction center on Oct 15. I met a high school classmate who told me he had talked his way into a methadone program without using heroin: "rejected "
We were taken into a room with a Marine Drill Instructor who said they were drafting, but preferred volunteers. No one did. He picked up a clipboard and announced he would just call a name unless someone volunteered. No one moved. He frowned, flipped the papers, called my name and told me to stand up. Everybody else exhaled. He said I was taken, to sit down, calling for a volunteer again. I was the only one breathing. After a few minutes he disgustedly called another name and took him away. SOP I learned years later.
I went to Ft Dix for Basic. In contrast to the recent account of Parris Isl.,our cadre were all decorated multi-tour Airborne Rangers, 1 DS per platoon with 1 troop pusher. WWII barracks, no hazing, bad food, hard work and fair treatment. They took care of "their" men. Two with injuries were supported in refusing Army surgery: medical discharges. They gave tips, we listened "tight". They were leaders and respected, not feared. I went to Alaska, not Nam later.
4
It was the same for me except when I got my draft notice a few weeks out of college I joined the Navy
2
I'm going to save this essay for future reading.
I, too, registered at the Selective Service in 1972 (at the Bronx County Courthouse, often visible on televised Yankee games). I had a bad draft lottery number as well.
Perhaps I was naive, but I don't think so. I was well aware of the political environment around me.
Most important, though: the thought of fleeing to Canada never crossed my mind. My thought was, if I have to go then I'll go.
When I mention this story nowadays, all the young men say they would run away, flee to Canada, renounce their citizenship. It saddens me, but I understand it. If the Donalds and Don Jrs of America wouldn't deign to serve their country, then why should they?
Lucky for me, the war ended before I could be sent off anywhere.
I, too, registered at the Selective Service in 1972 (at the Bronx County Courthouse, often visible on televised Yankee games). I had a bad draft lottery number as well.
Perhaps I was naive, but I don't think so. I was well aware of the political environment around me.
Most important, though: the thought of fleeing to Canada never crossed my mind. My thought was, if I have to go then I'll go.
When I mention this story nowadays, all the young men say they would run away, flee to Canada, renounce their citizenship. It saddens me, but I understand it. If the Donalds and Don Jrs of America wouldn't deign to serve their country, then why should they?
Lucky for me, the war ended before I could be sent off anywhere.
4
In May of 1966, all of the men in my entire college graduating class were put on buses and taken to a nearby military base for a physical. We were sternly advised by a uniformed clerk that since we were all graduates of a college, we were certainly going to pass and therefore we shouldn't try to flunk because if we did poorly we would be assigned to infantry. We all passed.
From there we went to the physical in a large hall where we formed a row for evaluation by an inspecting physician. We were instructed to remove our pants and be prepared to spread our buttocks to see if we had hemorrhoids. We all complied.
The doctor stopped at one fellow student and asked him what the brown mass was that had been revealed. The potential draftee reached back, took a finger full, put it in his mouth and said "it tastes like peanut butter." The doctor responded "you really don't want to go do you." "No sir" came the reply. "We don't want you" said the doctor. "Thanks" said my classmate.
We were astonished! Clearly the benefit of a college education! All of us asked "What type?" "Skippy chunky" was the response.
From there we went to the physical in a large hall where we formed a row for evaluation by an inspecting physician. We were instructed to remove our pants and be prepared to spread our buttocks to see if we had hemorrhoids. We all complied.
The doctor stopped at one fellow student and asked him what the brown mass was that had been revealed. The potential draftee reached back, took a finger full, put it in his mouth and said "it tastes like peanut butter." The doctor responded "you really don't want to go do you." "No sir" came the reply. "We don't want you" said the doctor. "Thanks" said my classmate.
We were astonished! Clearly the benefit of a college education! All of us asked "What type?" "Skippy chunky" was the response.
3
I can appreciate that you felt this way. I have a good friend who did several tours in Vietnam as a fighter pilot, putting his life on the line. And my own father saw combat duty off the coast of Japan, including receiving credit for downing a kamikaze and killing its pilot.
The draft ended the year I turned 18. But I would NOT have gone.
The Vietnam War was a complete waste of human lives. The Vietnam War accomplished nothing, nor could it have accomplished anything meaningful.
The Vietnam War was the first of a long list of meaningless conflicts in which our corporatized government threw away its best citizens for corporate gain.
Of course, the best example of Vietnam War thinking is five-time draft dodger Donald Trump, our commander-in-chief. A man who made a fortune swindling gambling addicts out of their rent money. The leader of vast criminal organization. Now our president. Soon our dictator.
The draft ended the year I turned 18. But I would NOT have gone.
The Vietnam War was a complete waste of human lives. The Vietnam War accomplished nothing, nor could it have accomplished anything meaningful.
The Vietnam War was the first of a long list of meaningless conflicts in which our corporatized government threw away its best citizens for corporate gain.
Of course, the best example of Vietnam War thinking is five-time draft dodger Donald Trump, our commander-in-chief. A man who made a fortune swindling gambling addicts out of their rent money. The leader of vast criminal organization. Now our president. Soon our dictator.
13
"My only memory of the bus ride was that it was oppressively hot and humid, and that Vietnam smelled like raw sewage."
That just about sums up my first thoughts of that DUMP in 1968.
That just about sums up my first thoughts of that DUMP in 1968.
3
Viet Nam was one of stupidest wars of all time. Eisenhower told The French in 1954/Dien bien phu that they were not going to get into a land war in Asia for anybody....poor Lyndon Johnson followed the Kennedys into Viet Nam for the Catholic Nhu government because he was not going to be the first President to lose a war...how absurd tell that to 35,000 mothers.
McNamara at the end of his life realized the catastrophic stupidity, was in movies meetings trying to justify the war and eventually asked for forgiveness.
THERE SHOULD BE A LAW Stating that if your government starts a war that each member of government is required to have one son/daughter in combat.
Hear that Cheney, Rumsfeld W.Bush....
Heard on FOX radio today that Obama caused ISIS by withdrawing troops...not our job to defend the corrupt Shia Iraqi government. we gave them billions$ to defend themselves but they ran... Not our job to defend the world when they can do it themselves if they are given the equipment. We left the moderate Sunni Syrians hi and dry so Donald could Kiss up to Putin.
Where was Trump during Vietnam? McCain and Kerry put their lives on the line for their country.
Make America Great send Donald to Afghanistan
McNamara at the end of his life realized the catastrophic stupidity, was in movies meetings trying to justify the war and eventually asked for forgiveness.
THERE SHOULD BE A LAW Stating that if your government starts a war that each member of government is required to have one son/daughter in combat.
Hear that Cheney, Rumsfeld W.Bush....
Heard on FOX radio today that Obama caused ISIS by withdrawing troops...not our job to defend the corrupt Shia Iraqi government. we gave them billions$ to defend themselves but they ran... Not our job to defend the world when they can do it themselves if they are given the equipment. We left the moderate Sunni Syrians hi and dry so Donald could Kiss up to Putin.
Where was Trump during Vietnam? McCain and Kerry put their lives on the line for their country.
Make America Great send Donald to Afghanistan
10
For some reason, I chose to read Mr. Leepson's account of his time in service. Knowing the Times was doing a series, I've postponed delving into it till today. My crucial time was the same as Mr. Leepson's. I had tried for Navy OCS and didn't make it. Then it was Air Force OTS. All the time, after June of that year when I graduated, my draft board loomed large. I used the OTS acceptance to hold them at bay while trying again for the Navy. I made it on the second try, got sworn in on July 13, the same day my draft notice arrived in the mail. It was also the first day of the Newark rebellion of '67. I never saw VN but Mr. Leepson's piece took me back to that time and the tension that everyone was feeling about one war or another. Thanks.
7
This is such a great story, thank you.
12
My story is somewhat similar. Graduated college in June '69, drafted September '69. Served two years in the U.S Army Military Police Corps. Very fortunate that I did not have to go to RVN. Honorable completion of military service for my country is my proudest achievement in life. As a young gay man, I could have "checked the box" as they used to say. But it never occurred to me not to do the right thing for my country. I recently was diagnosed with ALS, which the VA classifies as a service connected disability. Regrets? No. Would I trade places with the draft dodger sitting in the White House? No.
31
There's as many fascinating stories about being drafted as there were draftees. Here's a story I like to tell.
I graduated with a four-year degree in June '72 and was driving a forklift in Denver shortly afterward when I received my draft notice. One of us forklift drivers had just come back from Vietnam with a permanent spinal injury, collecting a disability pension of something like $27 a month. He had also been drafted, and at the induction center, he looked at the intelligence test paperwork. Instead of taking the test, he put his pencil down, saying he had more than enough testing in high school and wouldn't take any more. So he was placed in infantry. He was shot by the NVA, laying flat on his stomach.
After hearing that, I decided to do the best I could on that intelligence test!
It worked. I went to clerk school for AIT in Fort Leonard Wood just like Leepson, and because I had a four year degree, I was invited to join the Army Security Agency. For the rest of my two-year commitment I worked a rather cushy desk job as a personnel records clerk in West Berlin.
I graduated with a four-year degree in June '72 and was driving a forklift in Denver shortly afterward when I received my draft notice. One of us forklift drivers had just come back from Vietnam with a permanent spinal injury, collecting a disability pension of something like $27 a month. He had also been drafted, and at the induction center, he looked at the intelligence test paperwork. Instead of taking the test, he put his pencil down, saying he had more than enough testing in high school and wouldn't take any more. So he was placed in infantry. He was shot by the NVA, laying flat on his stomach.
After hearing that, I decided to do the best I could on that intelligence test!
It worked. I went to clerk school for AIT in Fort Leonard Wood just like Leepson, and because I had a four year degree, I was invited to join the Army Security Agency. For the rest of my two-year commitment I worked a rather cushy desk job as a personnel records clerk in West Berlin.
10
I was born and grew up an hours drive from Ft. Polk, Louisiana. Ft. Polk was aka Tigerland. It was used in the latter part of the Vietnam War because the conditions were so similar to Vietnam. For people drafted (or enlisted) who went through basic at Ft. Polk had the highest percentage survival rate of the war. the
I, too was classified 1-A. The Draft Lottery, was sign ed into law by then President Nixon in 1971. Days making up all in a year were randomly drawn. It was televised live on all (3) networks; ABC, CBS and NBC.
I was extremely fortunate to have my birthday come drawn 356th; almost last. I had a close friends whose birthday was drawn #1.
I am explaining this because I (like the author) am older than most people reading this article. Younger generations are not familiar with the draft, much less the draft lottery.
Director Joel Schumacher made a brilliant film named "Tigerland", which is based on a diary of one person and several other people. Schumacher chose a cast of relative unknown actors (most truly unknown). He cast a young Irish kid in the leading role, "Private Bozz" from Texas. The part went to Colin Farrell, who became a huge star, and the rightly. He exchanged his thick Dublin brogue for a Texas one. The film had huge critical success, but went straight to DVD. Cast opposite Al Pacino in "The Recruit" (2003), Pacino later said Farrell was the greatest actor of his generation, a term thrown about. A few other very good young actors were in it.
I, too was classified 1-A. The Draft Lottery, was sign ed into law by then President Nixon in 1971. Days making up all in a year were randomly drawn. It was televised live on all (3) networks; ABC, CBS and NBC.
I was extremely fortunate to have my birthday come drawn 356th; almost last. I had a close friends whose birthday was drawn #1.
I am explaining this because I (like the author) am older than most people reading this article. Younger generations are not familiar with the draft, much less the draft lottery.
Director Joel Schumacher made a brilliant film named "Tigerland", which is based on a diary of one person and several other people. Schumacher chose a cast of relative unknown actors (most truly unknown). He cast a young Irish kid in the leading role, "Private Bozz" from Texas. The part went to Colin Farrell, who became a huge star, and the rightly. He exchanged his thick Dublin brogue for a Texas one. The film had huge critical success, but went straight to DVD. Cast opposite Al Pacino in "The Recruit" (2003), Pacino later said Farrell was the greatest actor of his generation, a term thrown about. A few other very good young actors were in it.
7
The first lottery was drawn in early Dec. 1969, on a Saturday evening I think. I listened to it on the radio while spit polishing my combat boots during basic training after being drafted. The cadre collected all the 3 & 4 year enlistees who would have had high numbers and took them out. We didn't see them again until Sunday afternoon.
1
I was 18 in 1969 when they started the lottery. The next year they only drafted 19-year-olds but I was lucky and got a high number. Casualties dwindled dramatically from 1970 till the US got out in 1974. Still, it was a very freaky time for me. I didn't want to kill anyone and my worst fear was to have to be in a swamp and have to kill someone.
Though I was from a large newly Middle-class family, I was fortunate enough to go to a private Jesuit high school where early on I received a complete and relevant education including politics and good literature. The turmoil from this era that still burns for me is about my peers and what we should have known and when, to inform our own personal decisions.
Although I understand the labeling of the World War II generation as being the greatest, I do want to mention that my experience then was that men from that generation would tell us to get our haircut and act like a man and do our duty and join up... without regard for the fact that Vietnam was not at all like Nazi Germany.
For me what makes most sense now and has for a long time is the song by Buffy Sainte Marie titled "Universal Soldier" from 1964 and made somewhat popular a year later by Donovan.
Though I was from a large newly Middle-class family, I was fortunate enough to go to a private Jesuit high school where early on I received a complete and relevant education including politics and good literature. The turmoil from this era that still burns for me is about my peers and what we should have known and when, to inform our own personal decisions.
Although I understand the labeling of the World War II generation as being the greatest, I do want to mention that my experience then was that men from that generation would tell us to get our haircut and act like a man and do our duty and join up... without regard for the fact that Vietnam was not at all like Nazi Germany.
For me what makes most sense now and has for a long time is the song by Buffy Sainte Marie titled "Universal Soldier" from 1964 and made somewhat popular a year later by Donovan.
13
Our country is way overdue for a Universal Service Requirement. NO exceptions, women as well as men. No divinity student exemption violating the separation of church and state. Medical training a part of USR for those who qualify. Finally, NO exemptions for the children of the rich and politically well-connected.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants CONGRESS the power to declare war. The President derives the power to direct the armed forces AFTER Congress acts. Surely, the Founding Fathers intended this - after a full and deliberate debate - for any sustained use of military force abroad .
An all-volunteer military only further serves to insulate the citizenry against the effects the decision to wage war has on our country and the rest of the world. Since Pearl Harbor, always on foreign soil.
Youth with more limited economic opportunities deserve more than a default choice of fighting for those who, like former Vice President Cheney, "had other priorities" nor should we set up a mercenary force nor bribe people with the promise of citizenship.
Just as in the Vietnam-era, an individual always has the choice to renounce his birthright and leave the country. At a time when America is wrestling with the issue of illegal immigration, we are also losing sight of the concept that the privileges of citizenship and its attendant responsibilities need to be earned by each succeeding generation, as well as paid forward.
Chevy
South Hadley, MA
Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants CONGRESS the power to declare war. The President derives the power to direct the armed forces AFTER Congress acts. Surely, the Founding Fathers intended this - after a full and deliberate debate - for any sustained use of military force abroad .
An all-volunteer military only further serves to insulate the citizenry against the effects the decision to wage war has on our country and the rest of the world. Since Pearl Harbor, always on foreign soil.
Youth with more limited economic opportunities deserve more than a default choice of fighting for those who, like former Vice President Cheney, "had other priorities" nor should we set up a mercenary force nor bribe people with the promise of citizenship.
Just as in the Vietnam-era, an individual always has the choice to renounce his birthright and leave the country. At a time when America is wrestling with the issue of illegal immigration, we are also losing sight of the concept that the privileges of citizenship and its attendant responsibilities need to be earned by each succeeding generation, as well as paid forward.
Chevy
South Hadley, MA
22
You're assuming that Congress, acting as our representatives, declares a war which is rational and in the national interest. Vietnam was proof that Congress would declare war based upon false, unfounded events [Gulf of Tonkin incident] and continue to fund it based upon false reports from the Military [reference: Pentagon papers]. A historic lesson from Vietnam is that the population can be misled into conducting and supporting a war based upon willful deception by its own government and military. "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom", Thomas Jefferson.
10
Thank you for serving despite reservations you may have had, and thank you for writing about Barry Sadler and Vietnam more generally. The seemingly endless military formations awaiting your fate sound quite memorable.
www.thewaryouknow.com
www.thewaryouknow.com
4
Too bad you went to Vietnam, "to stem the march of worldwide communism." You could have refused. How do you feel about that now? How has stemming the march of worldwide communism worked out?
3
HA! Sort of the same story here but I got REAL lucky and was assigned to Ft. Hood, TX as a pay clerk inprocessing the guys you sent home....127th Finance Corps, 13th Support Brigade supporting 1st Cav Div and 2nd Armored Div. at Ft. Hood. 1970-72 active for me, 1972-76 reserves. I, too, tried Air Force and Navy OCS but both wanted perfect vision, which I did not have. I was sure the Navy would take me because my degree is mechanical engineering and ships are giant mechanical things.
2
"I distinctly remember thinking that I’d made the biggest mistake of my young life taking my chances with the draft". Me too. Now i know it really was the biggest mistake.
9
I missed it by a inch, turning 18 in 73. I vividly remember my two older brothers watching that sick game show in which they pulled eggs from a basket. Each egg had a birthday in it. First picked, first to go. If you made it past number 100 or so the chances of being drafted diminished.
As everyone is praying for John McCain remember that he never encountered a war that he didn't love.
As everyone is praying for John McCain remember that he never encountered a war that he didn't love.
12
I feel like I relived my past when I read your story. I was drafted in July (1966) one month after graduating from the University of Iowa. I also went to Ft. Dix. My AIT was also at Ft. Dix (infantry). I delayed making my OCS decision until after AIT, and ended up at Ft. Polk in Military Personnel Management (company clerk). My unit deployed to Vietnam in September 1967, and we were transported to Vietnam on a troop ship. I could say more, but I will just say thanks from someone who had a similar experience. Your comment about your VD orientation made me laugh. My wife asked me what was funny, but I don't think she could relate. Anyway, thanks for the memories.
9
My mother called me while away at college letting me know that I had a letter from U.S. Selective Service. The terror in her voice as she rhetorically asked me "What do you think they want? was followed by me asking her to open and read the letter to me inviting me to report for an induction physical and mental aptitude gathering on a specific date, time and place in Chicago.
I was opposed to the war and had no intent of going abroad to fight against foreigners who did not enslave nor treat Africans in America separate and unequal. Neither Canada nor prison were viable options. Thus I chose chemistry and biology to make certain that I was 4-F along with acting somewhat deranged while randomly answering the aptitude test questions. It worked.
I respect your choice along with those who fled to Canada or went to prison.
I have contempt for Trump, Cheney, Giuliani, Gingrich,Schumer, Clinton, Cornyn, O'Reilly, DeMint, Limbaugh, Hume, Kristol, Romney, Kyl, etc.
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force.
I was opposed to the war and had no intent of going abroad to fight against foreigners who did not enslave nor treat Africans in America separate and unequal. Neither Canada nor prison were viable options. Thus I chose chemistry and biology to make certain that I was 4-F along with acting somewhat deranged while randomly answering the aptitude test questions. It worked.
I respect your choice along with those who fled to Canada or went to prison.
I have contempt for Trump, Cheney, Giuliani, Gingrich,Schumer, Clinton, Cornyn, O'Reilly, DeMint, Limbaugh, Hume, Kristol, Romney, Kyl, etc.
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force.
77
Did I miss something? If you did things to make sure you were 4F, how does that make you any better than the people you have contempt for!
9
The last time the nation was unified in protest? Against Vietnam. Why? The draft ensured every American family could be impacted.
Policicians wised up and got rid of the draft and we have never been unified again.
Policicians wised up and got rid of the draft and we have never been unified again.
34
I agree. Our country has never witnessed protests of that magnitude since.
Fine writing by Marc Leepson. It brings back memories of the Newark induction center.
For Marc it could have been worse for him. I enlisted in the Marines for four years in 1968. I went to the induction center, was sworn in by the friendly GS-4 clerk who thanked all of us volunteers for serving. We then relaxed and stood around waiting for instructions to the overnight train ride to Parris Island.
The sharply uniformed clerk next walked over to a portion of the room with many rows of folding chairs on which were slouched dejected draftees. The clerk placed his straightened hand into the air in the center of the chairs to divide the space and swept it to the left. "From here over, you're going into the Marines," he stated.
I've never seen blood drain so rapidly from a human face as it did from those Marine draftees. But when I went to Parris Island for training, I learned that some of the platoons of draftees did very well.
The Vietnam War was a confusing time. Young people today will have no conception of what that time was like. We enlistees were guided onto a transport from the train station in South Carolina to Parris Island. When the bus arrived, a drill instructor launched onto the bus, singled out some possibly rebellious individuals (we were all from Jersey) and read the riot act to them.
Our world was about to change forever. But we did't have to pay for the haircut.
For Marc it could have been worse for him. I enlisted in the Marines for four years in 1968. I went to the induction center, was sworn in by the friendly GS-4 clerk who thanked all of us volunteers for serving. We then relaxed and stood around waiting for instructions to the overnight train ride to Parris Island.
The sharply uniformed clerk next walked over to a portion of the room with many rows of folding chairs on which were slouched dejected draftees. The clerk placed his straightened hand into the air in the center of the chairs to divide the space and swept it to the left. "From here over, you're going into the Marines," he stated.
I've never seen blood drain so rapidly from a human face as it did from those Marine draftees. But when I went to Parris Island for training, I learned that some of the platoons of draftees did very well.
The Vietnam War was a confusing time. Young people today will have no conception of what that time was like. We enlistees were guided onto a transport from the train station in South Carolina to Parris Island. When the bus arrived, a drill instructor launched onto the bus, singled out some possibly rebellious individuals (we were all from Jersey) and read the riot act to them.
Our world was about to change forever. But we did't have to pay for the haircut.
20
Curious. I didn't think you could get drafted into the Marines. I thoght people joined those other services to stay out of the Army, which I was drafted into. Live and learn, I guess.
I knew someone in college who had been drafted and, at his induction center, was told he was going into the Marines. He excused himself, walked next door, and immediately enlisted in the Air Force.
2
One of my good friends in our group in the Marines had *enlisted* for two years in 1971 because he knew that the Marines had stopped sending recruits to Vietnam by that time.
But the National Guard wasn't assigned there (recall George W. Bush's tour in the National Guard) and an option was to try to get into the National Guard (good luck) as well as the Peace Corps (another difficulty to achieve) as Marc reminds us. So there was pressure on the Marines to draft. And that's why those draftees were so shocked to find that they were being sent into the Marines!
But the National Guard wasn't assigned there (recall George W. Bush's tour in the National Guard) and an option was to try to get into the National Guard (good luck) as well as the Peace Corps (another difficulty to achieve) as Marc reminds us. So there was pressure on the Marines to draft. And that's why those draftees were so shocked to find that they were being sent into the Marines!
I guess my story is different. I volunteered for the draft in Brooklyn, NY. When you are in for two years your serial number begins with US. So I started out as a US and after basic training in Kansas I decided to reup (reenlist) so my serial number now start with RA (regular army). I did not want to go to Korea so I had a choice of MOS. I chose computers and the Army complied. They gave me 30 days leave after my computer training at Ft Benjamin Harrison in Indianapolis. I left Brooklyn on my way to my new assignment in Orleans, France. I have no regrets spending the extra year when I became a RA doing three years instead of two. I consider myself fortunate that my military obligation was done before the start of Vietnam and I was able to enjoy Paris and other great cities in Western Europe..
7
The lottery came about in 1969 for the 1970 year and continued to 1975 for the 1976 year with RIFs (reduction in force) already underway. Mr. Leepson is writing about the earlier period of the war when graduation from college ended one's exemption automatically. 50 years ago, being inducted was not wrapped in the flag; it was an invitation to return home wrapped in a flag. Once we extricate ourselves from the even more disasterous post-9/11 wars (or get kicked to the curb like Russia in Afghanistan), I expect the memorial on the mall will be built underground, like these wars that do not seem to cross the countenance of our President and his cabinet.
7
Leepson was threatened by his drill sergeant with being sent to "Tigerland", down in Fort Polk Louisiana for Advanced Infantry Training...and then went to clerk school.
I wasn't so lucky. I got sent there as a draftee for jungle training. I only "got lucky" after being injured on a forced march a week before shipping out for Vietnam. I then received a medical profile from an army Podiatrist for "non-infantry duty" and ended up in clerk school, and then deployed to South Korea. My feet saved my life.
I wasn't so lucky. I got sent there as a draftee for jungle training. I only "got lucky" after being injured on a forced march a week before shipping out for Vietnam. I then received a medical profile from an army Podiatrist for "non-infantry duty" and ended up in clerk school, and then deployed to South Korea. My feet saved my life.
12
Marc--Great story. Thanks. Here's mine: I quit college in '66 and joined the Marines. Went to Vietnam as a grunt. Was "zapped" (as we used to say) by an NVA soldier with a grenade launcher at the start of Tet. Medically retired. VA Disabled Veterans Rehabilitation Program paid for college and law school and, I'm happy to say, I've had an interesting and rewarding career as a criminal defense lawyer. But here's the thing: 50 years removed I still think about Vietnam every day, whether I wan to or not. And here's the other thing: Donald Trump makes me want to throw up.
142
My pleasure, Terry.
I thank you for your service and for what you have achieved after coming home.
Marc
I thank you for your service and for what you have achieved after coming home.
Marc
6
So based on these comments, it would seem that wishing for a new draft is pretty easy when you're a decade or two beyond its reach. Personally, I think "Draft Reinstatement Act of 2018," or whatever, wouldn't really get at the essence of it. I think something like "Involuntary Forfeiture of 3% of Lifespan and Legalized Murder Act" captures it better, don't you?
14
Many people want the return of some sort of national service, not specifically military. Those of us past the age of having to serve have children of a generation that has no commitment to the country. National service, as Israel and many other countries have, would not be a bad thing.
4
I was on a bus from Youngstown to Cleveland for my draft physical. It was April 4, 1968. On the bus, we heard Martin Luther King, Jr. had been shot. Some wondered what downtown Cleveland would be like, most were more concerned with their own fate. But not the army. Business as usual. No talking.
i have poor vision in one eye. 1-Y. They wouldn't call me up unless the Rooskies were coming over Lake Erie. Thus relieved of military service, I went back to college. I was a sophomore for five years.
i have poor vision in one eye. 1-Y. They wouldn't call me up unless the Rooskies were coming over Lake Erie. Thus relieved of military service, I went back to college. I was a sophomore for five years.
7
If I were you, I would have stayed in college and chased cheerleaders for another 5 years.
1
From a liberal dem who thinks the VN war was a tragic mistake I give you credit for going. I can't think how bad it might be to truly not want to go and be sent anyway.
It was much easier for me.
I wanted to serve, I wanted VN, I wanted combat, i wanted service with the marines, I wanted a small team so I vol for small team recon work.
It was a terrible war. A tragic mistake. And there is not a day that goes by that I would not make the exact same decisions again.
I miss it. I swore I'd never say those words but they are the truth.
It was much easier for me.
I wanted to serve, I wanted VN, I wanted combat, i wanted service with the marines, I wanted a small team so I vol for small team recon work.
It was a terrible war. A tragic mistake. And there is not a day that goes by that I would not make the exact same decisions again.
I miss it. I swore I'd never say those words but they are the truth.
38
You, sir, were one of the fortunate ones who apparently didn't see battle and as such didn't put your life directly on the line in the heat of battle.
So you became a clerk and were assigned to personnel. Tell me. What do those who actually saw battle in Viet Nam think of you? Or, to be fair to you, maybe, what PTSD have you endured? Did you soul search about the soldiers that weren't sent home...alive? Or was your soul-searching in the form of thinking you forgot to stamp a piece of paper? Tell me, GI.
So you became a clerk and were assigned to personnel. Tell me. What do those who actually saw battle in Viet Nam think of you? Or, to be fair to you, maybe, what PTSD have you endured? Did you soul search about the soldiers that weren't sent home...alive? Or was your soul-searching in the form of thinking you forgot to stamp a piece of paper? Tell me, GI.
3
I didn't see any hint that he felt his was the most tragic, or most admirable path. In fact it was very clear throughout that his path was random, conpletely out if his control, and just one of many. And he shared his story fairly neutrally. I'm not sure why you wrote such an aggressive reply.
I'm sure people feel all kinds of ways about it, but that reflects on them, not him.
I'm sure people feel all kinds of ways about it, but that reflects on them, not him.
26
Huh?? He has no soul-searching to do. He served his country. I'm happy for him that he didn't see battle.
8
Not sure what your point is. I was drafted. I had no choice about what job the Army gave me. They made me a clerk. I served. I know scores of Vietnam War veterans. No one has said anything to me other than to welcome me home, thank me for my service, and call me "brother."
13
All because of the Gulf of Tonkin lie.
We are still going through the WMD lie. A real bonanza for the Oligarch war mongers.
Oligarch Trump types never go to the meat grinder war (Trump Bone spur anyone?)
Have you tried voting lately? With republican gerrymandering and republicans in the electoral college, even though you are in the majority, what good did voting do? Look who is occupying the oval office. Look who is occupying the Congress and the Senate.
And the people are told they are free. A Government Of The People!
Pawns with a delusional pathological liar clown, the puppet of our enemy, as ringmaster.
When will they ever learn ?
When will they.. Ever learn ?
We are still going through the WMD lie. A real bonanza for the Oligarch war mongers.
Oligarch Trump types never go to the meat grinder war (Trump Bone spur anyone?)
Have you tried voting lately? With republican gerrymandering and republicans in the electoral college, even though you are in the majority, what good did voting do? Look who is occupying the oval office. Look who is occupying the Congress and the Senate.
And the people are told they are free. A Government Of The People!
Pawns with a delusional pathological liar clown, the puppet of our enemy, as ringmaster.
When will they ever learn ?
When will they.. Ever learn ?
21
Don't leave out the distinguished military career of George W. Bush. "only pawns in their game", Bob Dylan.
1
I was a desultory student in high school and poor material for college. Pretty sure my draft number was on the way. My older brother had been drafted into the army and disliked it so he suggested the Air Force. So after one long night of partying I went down to White Hall street in lower manhattan, got inducted, spread my cheeks, and took the subway to grand old Penn Station. After a long pleasant overnight train ride to Texas for basic training (I had to do it twice for some minor infraction) I shipped out to avionics school in Illinois. Then shipped out to a B52 squadron in segregated beach town in north Florida. A couple of more transfers; Kansas, France, Michigan and after four years it was all over.
Afterward I enjoyed a few years hitchhiking around the country, hungry but happy. In retrospect the service taught me self respect, productivity, how to live with mistakes, how to deal with authority and some level of maturity.
Somehow my service time had contributed to a successful career and family and shaped my life in ways better than my college educated friends...
and I'm grateful.
Afterward I enjoyed a few years hitchhiking around the country, hungry but happy. In retrospect the service taught me self respect, productivity, how to live with mistakes, how to deal with authority and some level of maturity.
Somehow my service time had contributed to a successful career and family and shaped my life in ways better than my college educated friends...
and I'm grateful.
6
It was Vietnam 69 for me. Promised the air wing in the Marines, awarded tracked-vehicle mechanic when I said no to OCS. Still I survived Qua Viet and Da Nang, and went to Hawaii. I did go to Quantico, but got out early since they were eliminating WO billets. Went back to school, 23 years teaching at Berkeley, and became an aware progressive member of the progressive vets Common Defense group. Luckier than many, still scarred.
11
Congratulations. "Nothing good ever comes of violence.", Martin Luther King
Yes, July 26, 1967 - Fort Dix, then Fort Holabird, Baltimore as an intelligence analyst, then Vietnam February 1, 1968. Delayed 5 days in SF because of TET, 90th Rpl, 5 PSYOPS group Saigon for 3 days filling ammunition magazines, a short flight to Can Tho to the 10th PSYOP battalion, 13 months later home and out March 1969. I did my duty and was innocently lucky. My heart goes out to those who did not survive and those who are still impaired today. A futile war. There hasn't been a logical military intervention since WWII. Eisenhower was so prescient in warning about the military-industrial complex.
19
Yet it was Eisenhower who got suckered by De Gaulle and the Dulles brothers regarding Vietnam. He authorized significant involvement including CIA pilots flying air support and delivering supplies during the debacle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954. None of America's leaders from Truman through Nixon comes away from this disaster looking good.
10
I was always amazed at how the Army, more times than not, put people in slots that fit their skillset. You obviously are an excellent writer, and if you're a PFC, the slot for you is clerk.
My dad was a fantastic shade tree mechanic. He was drafted in 1943 and wound up rebuilding engines for trucks and tanks in Paris.
I was Army ROTC and got my commission in 1971. After completing the requirements for my BS in Aerospace Engineering, I was assigned to the Transportation Corps, home of Army aviation.
Only three examples, I know, but sometimes the oft-maligned system works pretty well
My dad was a fantastic shade tree mechanic. He was drafted in 1943 and wound up rebuilding engines for trucks and tanks in Paris.
I was Army ROTC and got my commission in 1971. After completing the requirements for my BS in Aerospace Engineering, I was assigned to the Transportation Corps, home of Army aviation.
Only three examples, I know, but sometimes the oft-maligned system works pretty well
23
I wonder what "skill set" was identified for those shipped off to be killed (or used for killing).
5
Basically it was how good a shot you were with a rifle and what your IQ was, as well as what your job, if any, before joining But then again, as usual when dealing with such large numbers of people, it was rather haphazard.
William "My Lai" Calley?
William "Ia Drang" Westmoreland?
William "Ia Drang" Westmoreland?
1
I was drafted in 71 when most draftee's were sent to Asia to allow Volar Army to evolve. I had 99% combat disabled father who made me watch Combat and Sgt Bilko growing up . I decided that I wasn't helping this war machine nor fall for phony patriotism.
Never left states , couple article 15's at right time got me out of infantry school . Instead they sent me to Material Command in Massachusetts, where I tested drugs , food and equipment. Received Combat pay and hazardous duty pay . Lived in apartment off post . Went home to NY every weekend .
After year of fun and drinking I refused to do any more tests , knowing if I had less then 1 year they couldn't send me to Vietnam. CO was so upset he said he was requesting orders to send me so far from NY I would be able to go home on weekends . Well orders came in for Aberdeen MD !! Got there and had no MOS , so every job they sent me to do I screwed up , finally CO asked what I wanted to do , told him I would like to work in gym . He assigned me there . I reported for work 3 pm played , racket ball, basketball, boxed anything that an Officer wanted to do if he need a partner . Otherwise drank beer smoked doobies .
Got honorable discharge , went in at E1 came out E1 .
Took Human sexuality and Film Appreciation 7 years in row under GI education bill was making an extra $400 a month . Always incomplete course so you could take it again . Took government 7 years to figure it out .
Wish I could be drafted again .
Never left states , couple article 15's at right time got me out of infantry school . Instead they sent me to Material Command in Massachusetts, where I tested drugs , food and equipment. Received Combat pay and hazardous duty pay . Lived in apartment off post . Went home to NY every weekend .
After year of fun and drinking I refused to do any more tests , knowing if I had less then 1 year they couldn't send me to Vietnam. CO was so upset he said he was requesting orders to send me so far from NY I would be able to go home on weekends . Well orders came in for Aberdeen MD !! Got there and had no MOS , so every job they sent me to do I screwed up , finally CO asked what I wanted to do , told him I would like to work in gym . He assigned me there . I reported for work 3 pm played , racket ball, basketball, boxed anything that an Officer wanted to do if he need a partner . Otherwise drank beer smoked doobies .
Got honorable discharge , went in at E1 came out E1 .
Took Human sexuality and Film Appreciation 7 years in row under GI education bill was making an extra $400 a month . Always incomplete course so you could take it again . Took government 7 years to figure it out .
Wish I could be drafted again .
7
I got arrested in Sept '70 for the littlest amount of marajuana , probably , in history . I had been a college student but dropped out and was drafted in Feb '71 after seeing Rod Stewart and the Faces the night before . At the end of the process there were different colored footprints on the ceilings in Fort Hamilton NY . The green footprints denoted those with legal issues pending . I gave the guy behind the desk , where the green footprints ended , the information and he told me to go home . I was stunned and relieved . I thought the worst . The legal issue lasted about a year and I was 1A again in early '72 . They kept calling me trying to get me to enlist before I was drafted again . The calls ended when they announced no one would be drafted after Jan. '73 . I am so grateful I missed all that !
7
My heels hurt in Feb. '71 and I probably had heel spurs but didn't know you could avoid the draft with that diagnosis .
10
I was drafted in 1951 at the height of the Korean War. When i arrived at Center Street in New York to be inducted I was told, along with the other draftees, that there was the possibility that some of us would be taken into the Marine Corps rather than the Army. How's that for scaring the crap out of a 20 year old. That's how bad things were in the US military at that time. Fortunately I didn't get taken into the Marine Corps. But I heard stories about guys who did, and they were not very welcome in this volunteer force and had a hard time of it.
1
I doubt that the draftee marines were not welcome with the vol marines. In fact that would go against anything I have read, heard, or have personally seen first hand.
Now would a combat infantry marine in the 1950s or 60s have a low opinion of rear eschelon draftees? Yes but that has nothing to do with being a draftee. It's the rear eschelon part they hated.
In Korea Fox Company held the pass and saved the First Marine Division from destruction in temps that hit -35F and never once rose above 0F
In fox company were navy men, marine lifers, one tour wonder marines, draftee marines, and even reserve marines that had never attended boot camp.
You carry your weight, you function well under pressure, you keep up on the hump, absolutely no one cares how you got there.
Now would a combat infantry marine in the 1950s or 60s have a low opinion of rear eschelon draftees? Yes but that has nothing to do with being a draftee. It's the rear eschelon part they hated.
In Korea Fox Company held the pass and saved the First Marine Division from destruction in temps that hit -35F and never once rose above 0F
In fox company were navy men, marine lifers, one tour wonder marines, draftee marines, and even reserve marines that had never attended boot camp.
You carry your weight, you function well under pressure, you keep up on the hump, absolutely no one cares how you got there.
4
I am a Vietnam Vet, 7/67- 8/68. Thanks for this excellent memoir. And all the others the Times has been publishing about that Godawful war.
12
It was that damn little girl with her daisy and that mushroom cloud that did it. My draft board hadn't called yet but the noise of war was getting loader. Of course I voted for Uncle Lyndon. How could this grandfather get us into a big war? It wasn't long after the election I was in Fort Dix. Nice play Lyndon.
That's the last time I bought into advertisements of any sort.
That's the last time I bought into advertisements of any sort.
5
I was #67, and was taken on 2Dec71. That was right after the draft law had been reinstated by Congress. The draft law had expired sometime in mid 1971 because Congress had briefly refused to reinstate it, and that spared me for about 6 months after graduation.
I missed Vietnam, being sent to Colorado as an MP, where I ultimately moved and still live. I've always considered myself very fortunate, and was back home in time to watch Nixon's resignation. I've never understood how Nixon was re-elected in a landslide in 71, after failing to end the war like he promised in 68, and after the very strange burglary of the DNC (Watergate) headquarters.
I still don't understand how we let ourselves get sucked into Iraq. Didn't we learn anything from Vietnam? I remember being told that our system had worked when Nixon resigned. Now that we seem to be doing it again with Trump, maybe it didn't work that well after all? If Nixon had gone to jail, would we be where we are now? Every president needs to be held accountable!
"There's plenty good money to be made, supplying the army with the tools of the trade." Country Joe
Trump seems to be taking us to new levels of corruption.
I missed Vietnam, being sent to Colorado as an MP, where I ultimately moved and still live. I've always considered myself very fortunate, and was back home in time to watch Nixon's resignation. I've never understood how Nixon was re-elected in a landslide in 71, after failing to end the war like he promised in 68, and after the very strange burglary of the DNC (Watergate) headquarters.
I still don't understand how we let ourselves get sucked into Iraq. Didn't we learn anything from Vietnam? I remember being told that our system had worked when Nixon resigned. Now that we seem to be doing it again with Trump, maybe it didn't work that well after all? If Nixon had gone to jail, would we be where we are now? Every president needs to be held accountable!
"There's plenty good money to be made, supplying the army with the tools of the trade." Country Joe
Trump seems to be taking us to new levels of corruption.
25
I was drafted in late '64 before the war really heated up. Most guys I knew then served stateside in miserable outposts in the south where they hated Yankees moreso than they did the Viet Cong.
It happened that I had a friend who was a navy recruiter and he signed me up for four years with the guarantee I would work in my chose field, aviation. It turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life, although we eventually did deploy to Vietnam in 66.
It happened that I had a friend who was a navy recruiter and he signed me up for four years with the guarantee I would work in my chose field, aviation. It turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life, although we eventually did deploy to Vietnam in 66.
I was drafted before there was a lottery (12/65) was 71H20 personnel specialist training at Ft Gordon, Ga and spent 2 years there and four in reserves.
2
I come from a migrant family from Mexico, grew up at the border near Yuma Arizona. Of my five brothers 4 were drafted for Vietnam. Greencards arrived and with them came the draft. Several youth from my hometown were drafted the same way. Three of my brothers didnt make the cut, the fourth was sent to Texas for training. My mother -recently widowed- was devasrated. With eight of us to take care of, couldn't bear to lose one. After 5 months at camp, a letter arrived from my brother unlike previous, in a manila envelope. It had an 8x10 photo of him in uniform. He said he was to fly to Vietnam shortly. At 6 years old, the youngest of the eight, I remember my mother crying uncontrollably with this letter. A couple of days later my brother showed up at home, he had defected. When he went to post the letter, there was a taxi next door and he jumped in for a ride to the border. He walked accross to Juarez and took a two day bus ride home. Days later, US federal agents came to take him away. A Mexican citizen, he was protected by law in his homeland. Gave the greencard back and stayed at home. He was pardoned and given a permanent visa but made his life in Mexico. Had 5 boys of his own. He passed away this year at 69. My other brothers worked in the Yuma ctirus fields until last year. Marched with Cesar Chavez for better wages but still none. Takes 8 hours and 5000 lemons to fill a box. Pay is $45 per box. I pay $1 per lemon at Whole Foods...but that's a whole other story.
39
Great read thank you. I had a personal stake in the war/draft as well. The only real thing I have ever won in any kind of contest or lottery was my draft number. In 1970 is was the lucky recipient of lottery number 11. I finally won something. The next thing I know, I was at the Alameda induction center taking a physical and told to report a week later to fort pendleton in san diego. My father was a "hawk" at the time believing Communism would have a domino effect on the US. After my number was drawn, he was trying to figure out ways to get me to Canada. The day before I was to report, a deferment letter arrived changing my status because the movement to bring soldiers home was underway. Saw way too many of my friends and their brothers coming home in body bags, but I was one of the lucky ones. Still haven't won any lottery or contest since.
5
I was ordered to report to the same Newark facility to submit to a physical evaluation and IQ test. At the end of the line, having passed all the tests, I told the officer that I would refuse induction. He rolled his eyes, and said that didn't have anything to do with him.
My reaction to being "ordered to report for induction" was to read, read, read. I read about military life, military vs civilian law, violence, Vietnam, the conflict itself, the illegality of the war, the atrocities, the internal strife within the US and more. But mostly I thought about killing people, people I didn't know, fear, or hate. I thought about submitting oneself to the will of another, not like a child to a parent, but as a tool to a mechanic. What was the point of this war? What was my responsibility to my country of birth? What is my responsibility to my countrymen, to my fellow humans, and to myself. Am I responsible to myself? Am I responsible for my own actions?
I decided to refuse induction and avoid jail if I could. This was accomplished, but as much by luck and good people as anything I did myself.
The people I was expected to kill were not my enemies. My government, who I was expected to obey, acted criminally. My distrust of "leaders" remains to this day.
My reaction to being "ordered to report for induction" was to read, read, read. I read about military life, military vs civilian law, violence, Vietnam, the conflict itself, the illegality of the war, the atrocities, the internal strife within the US and more. But mostly I thought about killing people, people I didn't know, fear, or hate. I thought about submitting oneself to the will of another, not like a child to a parent, but as a tool to a mechanic. What was the point of this war? What was my responsibility to my country of birth? What is my responsibility to my countrymen, to my fellow humans, and to myself. Am I responsible to myself? Am I responsible for my own actions?
I decided to refuse induction and avoid jail if I could. This was accomplished, but as much by luck and good people as anything I did myself.
The people I was expected to kill were not my enemies. My government, who I was expected to obey, acted criminally. My distrust of "leaders" remains to this day.
107
'How not to get drafted for Vietnam' by President Richard Nixon: The famous lottery ranked your eligibility by your birth date. I think they would need about 99 or so dates to fill up the draft each year. I was eligible, but, my date was in the 300's out of of course 352 dates. I am not going to be drafted for the first year! However, the stupidity of the Nixon White House never re-mixed the lottery - that is re draw it each year out of fairness. I realized I would always be a number out of bounds for the draft!
Thus , this warned those who's birthday would always fall on the 99 or so dates needed to fill the draft. So not only did this cause tremendous anxiety to those potential draftees but it warned them to think of effusive action! Nixon and his advisors was not the brightest lights at the time.
I'm dedicating this comment to my friend George G. who, in order to avoid being drafted donned a rubber suit each summer day and hit tennis balls agains a wall for hours until he was emaciated- it worked!
Thus , this warned those who's birthday would always fall on the 99 or so dates needed to fill the draft. So not only did this cause tremendous anxiety to those potential draftees but it warned them to think of effusive action! Nixon and his advisors was not the brightest lights at the time.
I'm dedicating this comment to my friend George G. who, in order to avoid being drafted donned a rubber suit each summer day and hit tennis balls agains a wall for hours until he was emaciated- it worked!
6
The military industrial complex learned a valuable lesson during the Vietnam years. When they had to start shooting our own people at college campuses like Kent and Jackson State they knew they had to stop drafting the mainly unprivileged children of our society and turning them into cannon fodder. Their new business model became
1. Make war fun again with a massive PR campaign.
2. All volunteer forces so when a son or daughter is killed the response will be "well they did volunteer"
3. Display pins and bumper stickers pins claiming to "support our troops" instead of actually doing it.
4. Spend massive amounts, 5 times more then any other country combined, of money on high tech equipment. The PR campaign with help from the liberal left Hollywood will demonstrate how "cool" the stuff is and the people will not complain. In fact given the choice they will choose spending money on this cool stuff over sending a child to the doctor.
5. The goal is to make Americans believe we are this great military power while they will not grasp that we cannot defeat a one horse country like Afghanistan. The profits will keep rolling in.
I graduated high school in 67, went to college for the deferment, lottery number 325. We never learn.
1. Make war fun again with a massive PR campaign.
2. All volunteer forces so when a son or daughter is killed the response will be "well they did volunteer"
3. Display pins and bumper stickers pins claiming to "support our troops" instead of actually doing it.
4. Spend massive amounts, 5 times more then any other country combined, of money on high tech equipment. The PR campaign with help from the liberal left Hollywood will demonstrate how "cool" the stuff is and the people will not complain. In fact given the choice they will choose spending money on this cool stuff over sending a child to the doctor.
5. The goal is to make Americans believe we are this great military power while they will not grasp that we cannot defeat a one horse country like Afghanistan. The profits will keep rolling in.
I graduated high school in 67, went to college for the deferment, lottery number 325. We never learn.
26
I'm 67 years old. Reading this article has made me very somber. The feelings and conflicts of those Vietnam days affected my thoughts and opinions my whole life. Although the descendant of veterans of many American wars and being raised in a patriotic home in the 1960s, I did not serve. I had no deferment, I assumed I would be drafted. I was scared and confused about what to do. Out of self interest (to have some control over my destiny) I decided to enlist. I was sent to St. Louis to be tested and take the physical. I saw the Sargent going down the line and yelling at each of the draftees "Army, Navy, Marines." That was how such life altering decisions were randomly made. I'll never know how many of those boys survived. The Army refused to take me, I had a badly injured left knee from high school football. That night, my friends and I celebrated my freedom.
I have always felt guilty. So many of my friends served. A couple died. Most suffered and some have never recovered enough to lead normal lives. Most of my present close friends served in Vietnam. It was traumatic for all of us, but they have the satisfaction of having served and love their VA benefits and the free meals on Veterans Day. My guilt comes from seeing their pride in having sacrificed for their country, even if involuntarily. I'm proud of them and feel that I let them down. They graciously remind me that it wasn't my fault. War is Hell. May God grant us all peace. Thank You.
I have always felt guilty. So many of my friends served. A couple died. Most suffered and some have never recovered enough to lead normal lives. Most of my present close friends served in Vietnam. It was traumatic for all of us, but they have the satisfaction of having served and love their VA benefits and the free meals on Veterans Day. My guilt comes from seeing their pride in having sacrificed for their country, even if involuntarily. I'm proud of them and feel that I let them down. They graciously remind me that it wasn't my fault. War is Hell. May God grant us all peace. Thank You.
122
Would you have felt better to have been at My Lai, Ia Drang, Khe San, Tet, Cambodia, Hue or Saigon?
1
I'm 69 and escaped the war due to a good lottery #. We lived. We are not wounded or traumatized. There is some reason why were saved and they were not. Let each one teach one so that America never again forces its populace into a pointless and suicidal war.
2
To WMB
You have the same initials as my father, a retired Marine Lt.-Col dead now these past 10 years. I am 72 years old, went through all the angst of considering defection to Switzerland, where my wife is from. We had a son born at the time I was to ship out from Germany, so I got a 3-month deferment from a sympathetic doctor who foresaw problems for my wife. I finally did get to Long Binh in a headquarters job as a captain. I have often felt remorse at beating the system that consumed so many friends and fellow soldiers, even those I didn't know. "Full Metal Jacket" still makes me stick to my stomach. The horror! The waste!
You have the same initials as my father, a retired Marine Lt.-Col dead now these past 10 years. I am 72 years old, went through all the angst of considering defection to Switzerland, where my wife is from. We had a son born at the time I was to ship out from Germany, so I got a 3-month deferment from a sympathetic doctor who foresaw problems for my wife. I finally did get to Long Binh in a headquarters job as a captain. I have often felt remorse at beating the system that consumed so many friends and fellow soldiers, even those I didn't know. "Full Metal Jacket" still makes me stick to my stomach. The horror! The waste!
3
Vietnam was awful for so many reasons. The entire generation of young men was affected by it. Many young men were drafted, served honorably, and came back to productive lives. But, of course, many also did not.
One of my high school friends, Class of 1962, won a coveted appointment to the Naval Academy. He graduated in four years, went to Marine Officer Training, got married, went to Vietnam, and was killed less than a month later. We will all always remember Charlie (real name) as a great human being whose life ended way too soon.
One of my high school friends, Class of 1962, won a coveted appointment to the Naval Academy. He graduated in four years, went to Marine Officer Training, got married, went to Vietnam, and was killed less than a month later. We will all always remember Charlie (real name) as a great human being whose life ended way too soon.
13
Thanks for this. I'm just a little younger and didn't even know anyone who was drafted, although my experience might have been similar with just a few changes in circumstances. I remember the only skill I reported on my draft form (whatever the number) was typing. I was probably an excellent candidate for a similar assignment.
3
A fine article. Especially well-put : "During the Vietnam War every male of my generation — all 28 million of us — faced the vexing question of what to do about the draft." That's true for those--most--who one way or another escaped Viet Nam, through deferments,lottery luck, war winding down, National Guard, etc. But it consumed not just us then boys and men: it consumed our parents, siblings and our aunts and uncles as well, who worried about their children and the luck of their children compared to cousins. That luck also often determined political positions.
7
enlisted in 1966 - not happy with college progress - qualified for the longest technical courses - but in basic was the only RA - everybody else NG & US - eyeopener - army ended up sending me to 7th Army in Europe as cold-warrior - your story much better written more compelling
4
When I got my draft notice in 1963,I informed my commanding officer. You see,I was already in the service (the Navy). I was told to ignore the notice, but it would be taken care of. I never got arrested for draft dodging,so I assume everything was worked out okay.
10
As a female teenager at that time I remember lying on the bed listening to the radio read out the draft number and dates. I could not imagine what it would be like to be number one. Mine was pretty far down the list. And of course I planned to go to college.
My father was in the Navy Reserves in charge of the ROC ( Reserve officers Corps) program. So many of his friends with sons came to him asking what they should do? Being in the Navy was a much safer choice for that war, especially as an officer.
By the time I graduated from college deescalation was well under way. If I were a man I probably would have been fine. But that war left so many men, boys really, Destroyed. Many are the old homeless and the mentally distraught walking the streets. They were sent home after a thankless war and then forgotten until our most recent endless war showed the scars that always remain on war vets. I had hoped Vietnam might have taught our country something. Sadly it did not.
My father was in the Navy Reserves in charge of the ROC ( Reserve officers Corps) program. So many of his friends with sons came to him asking what they should do? Being in the Navy was a much safer choice for that war, especially as an officer.
By the time I graduated from college deescalation was well under way. If I were a man I probably would have been fine. But that war left so many men, boys really, Destroyed. Many are the old homeless and the mentally distraught walking the streets. They were sent home after a thankless war and then forgotten until our most recent endless war showed the scars that always remain on war vets. I had hoped Vietnam might have taught our country something. Sadly it did not.
4
Thank you very much for serving your country--you did something that very few young people today could fathom, which I suppose motivated this article in part. If only your country, or more accurately your government, had made sure your sacrifice, not to mention the sacrifice of your fellow soldiers who never came back, had been for something greater than a neo-colonialist war inherited from France whose point by 1967, at least from the American side, involved little more than saving Lyndon Johnson's ego.
2
What a time. What "polarization." Like we'd not seen since the Civil War. Though it was, in essence, a civil war within a foreign war. At the 35sec mark of this video the draft experience illustrated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnw1JaL2uA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnw1JaL2uA
1
I, a draftee just like you, arrived in Saigon in February 1968 and just as you describe it, it was terribly hot and humid and smelled like sewage. Thanks for telling my story.
2
Thank you Marc.........the reality of it needs to be thrown in the faces of those politicians who think we need war.................
I was in college, pre- med. My draft number was 181. It was required that I take several physical exams to determine if I would qualify as an inductee. Then also had to take several written tests and pass to keep my student status. My draft board kept close watch on the test results, as did my parents. My patents informed me that they would rather see me killed in Vietnam than suffer the embarrassment of their son being a draft dodger in Canada! Ironically, I was accepted into Optometry school in Canada, was in a program where the U.S. Navy paid for my last year of school. When I graduated, I received orders for a Naval air base for 3 years as an optometrist in the Medical Service Corps. I was fortunate to be able to contribute in this way. Six people I knew were killed in action in Vietnam.
44
My uncle will turn 93 years old next week. He had the misfortune to have been one of the few black men in a military uniform on Iwo Jima during World War II. He has never talked about what happened nor how he felt. But my grandmother knew the son who went to war after being drafted. But she not recognize nor understand the grim selfish cold troubled angry person who returned.
1
you should have sent your parents to Nam
3
I was drafted in 1966, chose OCS, was trained through humiliation and intimidation, and "served" a total of three years. Leepson's story is familiar to me.
I did nothing noble or ignoble. Fortunately ended my service with a year in Thailand, managing a large maintenance facility. By "managing" I mean buying the Master Sergeant who reported to me a case of beer a week so he would manage the large maintenance facility. By the end of my stint, I took myself as un-seriously as possible, calling the enlisted men "sir" and insisting that they call me Steve.
By 1968 I knew I was an insignificant cog in an immoral, politically-driven quagmire. I was never forced to make the truly noble choice of desertion or disobedience, as I was lucky enough to avoid conflict.
It was a time of great shame for our country, unequalled until now. As confusing and uncertain as the 60's were, they were a time of great hope and vibrant social progress. Now, the confusion is accompanied only by despair. The election of Trump, the disdain for truth, the reemergence of virulent racism, the ignorance of the electorate, and the moral vacancy of most elected officials make me much more worried than I was in 1966.
I just retired from years of leading a progressive school. It is only through a human, humane, honest education that citizens will have the critical capacities and moral resolve to sustain our democratic experiment. There is no issue more important than education.
I did nothing noble or ignoble. Fortunately ended my service with a year in Thailand, managing a large maintenance facility. By "managing" I mean buying the Master Sergeant who reported to me a case of beer a week so he would manage the large maintenance facility. By the end of my stint, I took myself as un-seriously as possible, calling the enlisted men "sir" and insisting that they call me Steve.
By 1968 I knew I was an insignificant cog in an immoral, politically-driven quagmire. I was never forced to make the truly noble choice of desertion or disobedience, as I was lucky enough to avoid conflict.
It was a time of great shame for our country, unequalled until now. As confusing and uncertain as the 60's were, they were a time of great hope and vibrant social progress. Now, the confusion is accompanied only by despair. The election of Trump, the disdain for truth, the reemergence of virulent racism, the ignorance of the electorate, and the moral vacancy of most elected officials make me much more worried than I was in 1966.
I just retired from years of leading a progressive school. It is only through a human, humane, honest education that citizens will have the critical capacities and moral resolve to sustain our democratic experiment. There is no issue more important than education.
34
Draft changed my life forever. On the day of my graduation from college (sometime in May 1966). I was walking downtown with my parents and a friend yelled at me that there was an opening in the local Army reserve unit (very hard to get into the reserves at that time). That afternoon, I went to the unit and enlisted in the reserves. Two days later, on Monday I received my draft notice.
I went to work at the University in (what I thought was) a temporary job until my 6 dos. active duty was completed. I worked successfully there until I retired in March 2000. I raised a family and am proud of who I am and what I accomplished so far in life. Do not know who I would have been had that friend not yelled there was an opening in the reserve unit......
I went to work at the University in (what I thought was) a temporary job until my 6 dos. active duty was completed. I worked successfully there until I retired in March 2000. I raised a family and am proud of who I am and what I accomplished so far in life. Do not know who I would have been had that friend not yelled there was an opening in the reserve unit......
8
I was drafted in 1969 and subsequently served four years in the US Navy. Today I find myself living in an increasingly authoritarian country with a draft dodger as President and wonder why the hell I didn't just flee to Canada.
39
You were lucky to be at Fort Did for Basic. Drafted from my sheltered home in the Bronx, I was sent to Fort Gordon, Georgia. The drill instructors there had all the meanness, plus blatant anti-Semitism.
One day as we formed up for a grueling all-day march, the First Sergeant addressed our company: "There any Jewobys here?". There were several of us, actually, but only I foolishly raised my hand. "Good. The clerk is sick. I need somebody to take over for the day, and I don't want nobody but a Jewboy."
Anti-Semitism? Philo-Semitism? Who knows, but I spent the day in the air conditioned office while my buddies slogged through the Georgia swamps.
One day as we formed up for a grueling all-day march, the First Sergeant addressed our company: "There any Jewobys here?". There were several of us, actually, but only I foolishly raised my hand. "Good. The clerk is sick. I need somebody to take over for the day, and I don't want nobody but a Jewboy."
Anti-Semitism? Philo-Semitism? Who knows, but I spent the day in the air conditioned office while my buddies slogged through the Georgia swamps.
26
"Fort Did" is an artifact of Autocorrect. I meant Fort Dix, of course.
BTW, I too got a golden MOS: 91G20, Clinical Psychology Specialist. I had at that time had absolutely no training, but three days after Basic I was counseling soldiers who had attempted suicide and grizzled lifers who had been arrested for beating their wives (too much). MASH was surreal, but it had nothing on reality.
BTW, I too got a golden MOS: 91G20, Clinical Psychology Specialist. I had at that time had absolutely no training, but three days after Basic I was counseling soldiers who had attempted suicide and grizzled lifers who had been arrested for beating their wives (too much). MASH was surreal, but it had nothing on reality.
10
There were a couple of men in my Basic Training company (Nov '72) who were in there to be morticians. They said there was plenty of work for them to do.
In 1968, my last year in college, with most deferments for grad school disallowed, I was reclassified 4-F. I had no idea why. My mother claimed to know nothing about it. I went to the local draft board and asked. The woman I spoke to only said, with a sour expression, that the change was official. Looking at her, I felt suddenly foolish for asking. So I thanked her and left. To this day I'm not sure how I escaped the draft, though I suspect my doctor might have written a letter on my behalf (he could have referred to my childhood asthma, two knee injuries from playing high-school football, or my flat feet--none of which may have exempted me, for all I know). But I never asked him about it, not sure how he'd react if he hadn't (and now it's too late; he's long gone). I also wonder whether there may have been some sort of clerical error. In any case, I owe my avoidance of the possibility of going to Vietnam and killing and being killed to a mystery.
10
And to think that our current Commander in Chief was driving around New York in his Cadillac with vanity plates during that time period.
49
Thanks for the reflections as few people who did not face the draft can appreciate the system or the obligation imposed upon male citizens. One possible question, without nitpicking: is it possible your flight landed at Yakota AB, which is near Tachikawa. The runway at Tachikawa is very short and the Air Force moved most larger jet flights to Yakota AB starting in 1964. I flew the Clark-Yakota-Anchorage-Travis route 4 times from 1967-70
6
You may very well be correct. I remember it being Tachikawa, but it could easily have been Yokota. I flew to Japan on R&R and now am wondering if that's when I went to Tachikawa. Many thanks.
It is hard to imagine how it would be to be drafted. On the one hand you want to serve your country. On the other hand, you have to believe that the war is worth dying for. Vietnam was a disaster, a war started by a democrat Kennedy, escalated under another democrat Johnson, and ended by a courageous Republican, Nixon. This was truly a worthless war.
5
Nixon didn't end the war. There was no peace treaty, but rather Americans and their Vietnamese counterparts on the roof of the embassy hoping to get a helicopter lift before the Viet Cong reached the area.
Nixon also invaded Cambodia and Laos with no authorization from Congress.
I was in the Navy, having enlisted in 1963. My poor eyesight probably saved my life as many of us were recruited to fly helicopters in Viet Nam and given Warrant Officer status. I couldn't pass the flight physical.
Vietnam was certainly a disaster as was Iraq and Afghanistan. However, other than the loss of life and the other human tragedies of war, Vietnam finally ended. One cannot say that about the other two lingering wars for which there is no end in sight.
Nixon also invaded Cambodia and Laos with no authorization from Congress.
I was in the Navy, having enlisted in 1963. My poor eyesight probably saved my life as many of us were recruited to fly helicopters in Viet Nam and given Warrant Officer status. I couldn't pass the flight physical.
Vietnam was certainly a disaster as was Iraq and Afghanistan. However, other than the loss of life and the other human tragedies of war, Vietnam finally ended. One cannot say that about the other two lingering wars for which there is no end in sight.
12
Steve:
If you get a chance, visit the Viet Nam Memorial in Washington. You begin at street level on the west end and descend into a 20 foot trench full of names of the departed, in order of falling. You emerge at the east end, the names gradually decreasing.
On the west (beginning) end, before the first name, is the inscription "1959."
That was when the first American died there. Kennedy was not president then.
If you get a chance, visit the Viet Nam Memorial in Washington. You begin at street level on the west end and descend into a 20 foot trench full of names of the departed, in order of falling. You emerge at the east end, the names gradually decreasing.
On the west (beginning) end, before the first name, is the inscription "1959."
That was when the first American died there. Kennedy was not president then.
5
"A courageous Republican, Nixon." Recently disclosed Nixon papers have shown that as a presidential candidate, Nixon encouraged the N Vietnamese leaders to reject a 1968 peace proposal; saying he would offer a more favorable agreement after he was president. This action went beyond Watergate and fully fits the description of treasonous behavior, far exceeding the "merely" criminal activities of Watergate. This "courageous Republican" extended the war for another two years and thousands of dead and wounded Americans paid the price for his actions.
11
My husband, Dick Brown, went to Vietnam because his President asked him. At age 57, he developed Multiple Myeloma, a cancer caused by Agent Orange. Our government did not test Agent Orange for its safety, before they decided to dump it on the very men they drafted into war. My husband remembers when Agent Orange was dumped on him in Vietnam. Our government murdered my husband. Even though Agent Orange has been linked to cancer, Parkinson's and birth defects in children, it is still being used today in the product known as Round Up. Round Up can be bought anywhere. Let's kill those weeds, and then, let the children play in the Agent Orange. The makers of Round Up are now being sued because people are developing cancer. But, our own government let this happen, even though they knew the consequences. My husband was a man who stood above most men, he was kind and gentle. He died four years ago, and it still feels like it was yesterday. Agent Orange also killed me. The only reason that I am still on this earth is because of my daughter and my Labrador, because a mother does not leave her children by suicide. But, I am already dead, but I look forward to the day I leave this earth. By killing my husband, Agent Orange has killed me, too.
57
Dear Claudia--I'm so sorry for your loss and pain. I am glad you have a Labrador--mine gets me through tough days, although none of mine are as tough as yours.
Paula
Paula
1
I hope you can find some peace, Claudia, and see your wonderful husband ever time you look at your daughter.
1
Technical correction: Agent Orange is not the same as Round Up. Agent Orange is a mixture of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. Round Up is glyphosate, and entirely different and unrelated chemical. (Information from Wikipedia).
This is not to say that Round Up may not have problematic issues, but the two agents are not in any way related to each other.
This is not to say that Round Up may not have problematic issues, but the two agents are not in any way related to each other.
2
I just finished the rough draft of a book about Vietnam, so I will reserve my comments because the book will tell all.
1
I was fortunate enough to get a high lottery number. Had that not been the case, I would absolutely have gone to Canada, having relatives in Toronto who descend from my great grandfather's brother. He went to Canada rather than be drafted in the Civil War. He could have hired a substitute but didn't consider it a moral choice. For me, it wasn't about moral choices. It was about not throwing my life away to protect a rice paddy on the other side of the world, on behalf of people who didn't want me there to begin with and for a government that was fighting a war based on lies and prosecuted with a continuous stream of lies. Those who fought in Vietnam can call me a coward if you want to. You paid terrible dues that I did not and earned the right to be judgmental in this regard. However I hope you do understand there is a difference between cowardice and common sense and that legitimate views of this issue may differ.
137
Many people still talk about “drafts” and “national service” and such things without even considering the details. First the Pentagon does NOT want a draft – it LIKES the volunteer military. Why go back to a situation of managing millions of angry, unmotivated people who have no interest in a military career and do not understand or accept the logic or necessity for continued American occupations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places. Secondly, warfare has changed radically since Vietnam. The level of sophistication in weapons, communications, and intelligence systems has increased enormously so that the training period to master such systems is much longer. Add in the fact that many service and maintenance jobs have been outsourced to private contractors who now have THEIR stake in the system. Holding someone for a year or two in uniform and providing all manner of training only to watch them leave the service ASAP would be a counter-productive use of money and resources and make the military weaker, not stronger. Forget the draft – it’s not going to happen.
5
The all volunteer army was the only good thing to come out of Vietnam. But never say never. If the government wants the draft reinstated, it will get its wish. The government is still all powerful when it comes to its effects on the nation's young people.
5
Interesting to share these stories with draftees of that era. The war and the draft were obsessions for all of my college years and most of my friends found creative ways to beat it. When the grad student deferments ended I was plucked out of law school in the summer of '69 and went to Ft. Bragg after losing a Conscientious Objector request based on opposition to this particular war. After basic I was assigned to a "stabilized" clerk position at Bragg, but the stabilization was lifted and I was ordered to Nam when the brass discovered I was a member of GI's United Against the War and on the editorial board of the "Bragg Briefs" an underground newsletter we distributed to the GI"s. I again filed my selective conscientious objector application which stalled transit to Nam and I continued in my job, being shuffled a few times, and served out the remainder of two years without resolution of the case beyond the US District Court. The anti war movement spread like wildfire through the army evidenced by the mass participation by civilians and military personnel in anti war rallies including one in May of 1970 at Bragg where Jane Fonda, Rennie Davis and Mark Lane were featured speakers, attracting throng well over 5,000 people at Rowan St Park in Fayetteville, NC. By '71 even a lot of the regular officers I encountered were opposed to this misbegotten war. Participation in the movement allowed me to assuage guilt about participating in that war.
65
High school class of 1972. We grew up with the war, I remember in 1968 my father holding a newspaper with the war on the front page. I overheard my mother express worry about whether I would eventually be called.
In the summer of 72 I along with many of my classmates enlisted, The draft was no longer an issue for our class. I told my parents the war was all but over and there was no reason for concern. It wasn't out of patriotism or obligation. The war had extinguished that. But it seemed like a good option for moving forward in life. I was trained in weather.
I was on Guam in April 1975 when Vietnam fell. In what seemed like an instant, the island became home for 100,000 plus refugees. The Navy sent me to work with the Red Cross. My job was to reproduce computer printouts of the names of refugees who were in camps in the Philippines, Thailand and other places. I ran this giant Xerox all night long.
Each morning another sailor and I drove around in a Volkswagen to various camps with the computer printouts. The refugees would immediately start going through the lists looking for family,
I've had the opportunity for meaningful work in my life, but no job was more important than that one, I still remover the people going through the lists.
In the summer of 72 I along with many of my classmates enlisted, The draft was no longer an issue for our class. I told my parents the war was all but over and there was no reason for concern. It wasn't out of patriotism or obligation. The war had extinguished that. But it seemed like a good option for moving forward in life. I was trained in weather.
I was on Guam in April 1975 when Vietnam fell. In what seemed like an instant, the island became home for 100,000 plus refugees. The Navy sent me to work with the Red Cross. My job was to reproduce computer printouts of the names of refugees who were in camps in the Philippines, Thailand and other places. I ran this giant Xerox all night long.
Each morning another sailor and I drove around in a Volkswagen to various camps with the computer printouts. The refugees would immediately start going through the lists looking for family,
I've had the opportunity for meaningful work in my life, but no job was more important than that one, I still remover the people going through the lists.
24
Of course Marc Leepson's story can be matched by all of us many millions of draft age men who got called up for Vietnam. The good thing about the draft was that, especially after most of the deferments were eliminated and the universal lottery was put in place, everyone had to be involved, no leaving it up to a voluntary system. It profoundly identified our generation of young men in a thousand ways. My own case: I got called up to enlist (twice), and each time failed my physical, at Ft. Holabird, Baltimore/MD, because I had two steel pins in my left collarbone from a soccer injury in college. So, I never served. Most of my friends did, and some never made it back.
8
Failed the physical to be drafted twice. Was reclassified after entering medical school. Went on to be drafted as a doctor after I gave up my postgraduate residency training deferment. Thereafter I spent my service time in the US. I had classmates that were shipped directly to Vietnam. I have no understanding why them and not me.
3
I went to college, then medical school, was deferred for my residency and then spent 3 years in England during the war as a hospital internist. My next door neighbor was drafted and killed by a sniper in Vietnam. I went to his funeral with an open casket. The inequities of the deferral system. One lived and one died. Based upon education and socioeconomic status.
89
Your last sentence says it all along with one of John Fogarty's anti-war songs about those fortunate sons. I watched those with the proper political connections receive deferment after deferment or many joined the National Guard through the avenue of preferential treatment, again politically motivated in some cases (thus, the disdain by many of us in the "real Army" and not "guard babies).
Both cases, the induction or joining the reserve components were based on inequities.
Both cases, the induction or joining the reserve components were based on inequities.
18
It seemed that once the undergraduate draft deferral ended, so did the "war" and then the draft itself.
4
My husband came from a musical family and was already in a high school rock band when the Beatles landed in New York in 1964. In 1967 his band was signed to a contract by a major label, but the band members were all subject to the draft. Their manager got them all into the National Guard, then got them transferred to the Air Force Reserves when they got to the East coast. Had that not happened some of the guys would have gone to college, but I'm sure my husband would have been cannon fodder.
He saw a lot of his good friends go to Nam, as did I. We lost some there, and we saw the consequences for those who returned. Back then I don't recall hearing the term PTSD, but we had a name for it - they were "Vietnam sick" when they went on drug-and-drinking binges and called in tears at 3:00 am.
It was a war that affected all of our generation, and still affects us every day. It should not have been that way. Our friends should not have had their lives ripped away from them like that. I will always believe it was wrong to send them to Vietnam.
He saw a lot of his good friends go to Nam, as did I. We lost some there, and we saw the consequences for those who returned. Back then I don't recall hearing the term PTSD, but we had a name for it - they were "Vietnam sick" when they went on drug-and-drinking binges and called in tears at 3:00 am.
It was a war that affected all of our generation, and still affects us every day. It should not have been that way. Our friends should not have had their lives ripped away from them like that. I will always believe it was wrong to send them to Vietnam.
47
I had a student deferment for a while. i recall a soldier in my hometown on leave that tried to get someone-anyone-to cut off his trigger finger.
Ummm....I wouldn't know about the draft. I volunteered in 1962, at age 18 and served in the USMC until 1968--fun years. When I left active duty and went to college I was reclassified as a 4 something, I don't remember what the trailing letter was. It really doesn't matter, it was the number 4 that mattered. I earned my 4 unlike others I I've read about who had those nasty bone spurs. Life must have been so hard for them. I've often wondered if they ever amounted to anything in life.
51
How'd they turn out? Drunks, millionaires, and congressmen... How are you doing?
11
Not to worry. The vast majority of Americans have led long, rich and successful lives without ever having been a Marine.
5
No complaints. Reasonably good career in print and publishing. Two marriages, both failed...now live alone in the woods with a rescue cat named Bert. I sometimes wonder who has really been rescued here. Three kids, two grandchildren, two great grandchildren. Cancer survivor (so far) aspiring poet, moderate drinker :-) Dual citizen--Canada--headed to Newfoundland in a week to wander about, take pictures, write and navel gaze. No point to fussing, no one listens anyway, but thanks for asking.
5
I remember growing up as a kid in the 80s and being terrified of the draft. Of course, it never happened. But it happened to lots of young men before me, and lots of them were maimed or killed.
I remember it was the one thing that always made me suspicious of feminism.
I remember it was the one thing that always made me suspicious of feminism.
1
What a fitting positioning of this article in the layout of The Opinion Pages, about the personal experience of one person in by far the most sexist activity ever in America, immediately below Susan Chira's article in solicitation of only women's "OMG horror stories of sexism" to appear in her coming scold piece,
"Has Sexism Become Worse After the Election?"
We already know the answer is a very true "Yes!"
That's be the day when The Times runs an article about the first woman to register for the women-only selective service.
"Has Sexism Become Worse After the Election?"
We already know the answer is a very true "Yes!"
That's be the day when The Times runs an article about the first woman to register for the women-only selective service.
Every time I see a comment to the NYT recommending some sort of mandatory government service, I'd recommend they read this article. Our highly militaristic nation would love to have more bodies to work with. My take on this approach is that there is no room for individualism, etc., and that we should all toe the line. This I will not do.
Vietnam cured that.
One of the side effects of that period is a rise in the criminal behavior, lying, outright theft, and lack of respect our political class shows the citizenry. It began under LBJ, and it continues to this day. We're not what our P.R. policy- American Exceptionalism- says we are.
Vietnam, LBJ, Nixon, and 45 are all beneath contempt.
Vietnam cured that.
One of the side effects of that period is a rise in the criminal behavior, lying, outright theft, and lack of respect our political class shows the citizenry. It began under LBJ, and it continues to this day. We're not what our P.R. policy- American Exceptionalism- says we are.
Vietnam, LBJ, Nixon, and 45 are all beneath contempt.
18
Not Kennedy who started it all?
A familiar story. I do remember going to Delhi (the Induction center), and having some old fellow telling us we were going to be fighting for Christ - no kidding. Then at Ft. Dix. I remember my Drill Sergeant threw an inductee down the stairs of the barracks. He lost a strip for that. We marched, did lots of push-ups and marched some more. On the positive side we learned about the Geneva Convention - torture was a no-no. Civilian control of the military was placed on a pedestal. UCMJ, drill and ceremony, how to clear a mine field, and how to survive and continue your mission in the event of a nuclear attack....Essentially brush the dust off and continue the mission (really). Then to language school at Ft. Bliss (it's a misnomer). Studied Vietnamese language - most important phrase we learned was "don't shoot, I know many secrets." Then to San Angelo for advanced translation training and then, same as below, the long flight to Viet-Nam and then by truck to Long Binh. First assignment was Bien Hoa. Some of the finest sunsets you'd ever see (all the moisture in the air). I don't think any of Donald Trump's relatives (or Dick Cheney's) were there.......At this point I'd favour bringing back the draft, it gives most of the citizens a stake in foreign policy.
47
My husband Bob and his younger brother Rick were drafted on the same day at Fort Hamilton, NY and went through basic training together at Fort Jackson, SC. (google - brother draft - same day service) After AIT at Ft. Lewis, WA, Bob spent a year in Nam as a grunt with the Big Red One. After basic, Rick became a cook at Ft. Lewis.
7
Leeson is a compelling writer and I would liked to have read more.
23
I was drafted in 65 and sent to Vietnam, Saigon, as part of 527th MP Company in 1966. I knew how to type so I was made company clerk, the power behind the throne! Air conditioned office, room, other than at attack and a couple of bombs thrown my way when I first arrived, not much happened during my 13 months there. Got to see Bob Hope at Xmas. Got to know everything there is to know about sex.
Went home to be discharged before Tet. The Luck Of The Draw. I would see the guys from the field coming thru Saigon, looking like zombies. There but the grace of God go I. The Luck of The Draw!
Went home to be discharged before Tet. The Luck Of The Draw. I would see the guys from the field coming thru Saigon, looking like zombies. There but the grace of God go I. The Luck of The Draw!
17
I joined the army and one day while at the induction center in Kansas City in June 1967' every draftee were lined up and every third one went to the Marine corp.
4
Hilarious, after a (sick) fashion. I was drafted in 1971, but trained in reverse fashion from the author: first to Ft. Leonard Wood for basic, then to Dix for clerk training, after which I spent my time processing orders home for the poor shlubs who were still in 'Nam. A stupid, stupid war. An even stupider luck of the draw.
11
Marc, nice little recollection. Do you have some point, like you were proud to have served as a clerk or you were badly used by the government or something else. There are countless stories like this, might even rise to the millions given how many served.
2
Thanks, Richard. While I was extremely thankful I was a clerk in Vietnam and not an infantryman, I was not happy. It didn't take very long for me to see that the war stunk in every way. So I was bitter about taking any part in it. I did my job to the best of my abilities, but all I wanted to do was put in my year and come home. I felt that way for a years, but changed my mind in the late seventies. I felt proud that I had served my country, even though it was in a war that should not have been fought.
1
I was pressured into responding to my draft notice by family who felt my life would be ruined if I went into exile. For me the logic was: this is an immoral and illegal war and the government has no right to conscript me to fight in it. But the emotional argument of my family prevailed and so I returned from Paris tin time for my draft date. I went through Basic at Fort Ord and somehow was stationed in Hawaii and a motion picture operator, my interest in college but I spent my time laminating ID cards for military family members. After nine months I received a two week leave, returned to the mainland, went AWOL and made my way back to Paris where i lived until 1974. I was pardoned or amnestied at the same time as Richard Nixon. 50 years later, I have not for one day regretted my decision and feel it helped make me the person I am.
138
What person is that, pray tell? I served (not happily, but because people of my generation believed it was their duty), had a really rough basic training, a very easy remaining 22 months, and am still around to be glad I did so. For one thing, I made good friends in the army who are still friends over 50 years later, and I met a tremendous cross-section of American men (some still boys) and got to understand that everybody in America doesn't subscribe to what Cruz described, rightly or wrongly, as "New York values". People from New York and environs who served back then are probably the only folks reading the Times these days who really understand WHY Donald Trump won the last election.
3
You are now qualified to work in trump's cabinet.
Cool. What did you do in Paris?
The shadow of the Vietnam War lengthens and deepens as our generation ages, but still that war sharply defines the fundamental unfairness war brings to every generation. When my number in the first draft lottery--held the week my first child was born--popped up as a 10, I thought I'd just experienced the worst tragedy in my life, one I might not survive. Yet here I am almost five decades later living far better than I ever expected because of that random lottery drawing: 23 years flying military aircraft, and 24 years as an Air Force civilian in a job I never want to leave. But still, the names on the shiny black granite guilt me as do the vets my age carrying cardboard signs at intersections.
30
Rather than be drafted my fiancé joined the Navy and went to Pensacola for training to be a pilot. His father had been killed by a drunk driver and he thought he would be of service to his country, learn a career and help his mother financially. He was idealistic. He wrote me the night before departing for Vietnam when reality set in. He said he didn't understand why he was being sent across the world to bomb people who had caused no harm here to us. He was shot down and died on his first mission.
249
Meanwhile, our current President evaded the draft through a bogus medical diagnosis of a "bone spur" -- he can't remember on which foot. He then spent the ensuing years partying in New York. Not one member of the Trump family, going back four generations, has served in the US military. How did he end up in the White House as Commander in Chief?
267
To answer your last question, he lied, manipulated, and conned his way through life, as well as the primary and general elections, and was carried on the backs of two mutually exclusive groups of people who never, ever interact - incredibly rich, privileged, and entitled people for whom everything is about money, and unprivileged, uneducated, scared and angry people, many of whom have done actual service in our military. Bizarre.
4
With apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan, "He thought so little they rewarded (he) by making him the ruler of the Queen's navy."
It's amazing that you seem to be the only reader who recognized the cowardice of our president (even a lowercase p is too much for him.) I was in the same Selective Service area as he was, and received my notice less than a month after I graduated college, with no chance of going to graduate school. How can veterans support a person who used wealth to get a deferment? It is unbelievable that such a deplorable individual can now determine the fate of our youth. Shame on my fellow veterans who accept his vile concepts!
5
Glad it worked out for you, but there were 55,000+ kids that weren't so lucky. Out of your induction cohort, how many died? What are their names and what are their stories? Please, let's have a more balanced view of those terrible times.
I too can remember sitting in the dorm basement, glued to the TV as the numbers were drawn. Every so often, someone would jump up and say that his number was drawn and he'd leave the room. The rest of us were in terror and this only amplified the feelings.
I was attending a land grant university that was very jingoistic but my home was in a 'lefty' city. I ended up being in ROTC and getting draft counseling from the Quakers at the same time.
We lost the Vietnam war, but did we learn anything as a nation about hard power and the limits of empire? Apparently not. By any standards, we've lost Afghanistan and we've lost Iraq. And, our president is busy setting up for the next conflicts to 'save democracy' by attacking Iran and the DPRK.
So, veterans, I honor your service and individual sacrifice, but at the same time abhor war and the 'nationalistic' nonsense spewed by or leadership that gets us there.
I too can remember sitting in the dorm basement, glued to the TV as the numbers were drawn. Every so often, someone would jump up and say that his number was drawn and he'd leave the room. The rest of us were in terror and this only amplified the feelings.
I was attending a land grant university that was very jingoistic but my home was in a 'lefty' city. I ended up being in ROTC and getting draft counseling from the Quakers at the same time.
We lost the Vietnam war, but did we learn anything as a nation about hard power and the limits of empire? Apparently not. By any standards, we've lost Afghanistan and we've lost Iraq. And, our president is busy setting up for the next conflicts to 'save democracy' by attacking Iran and the DPRK.
So, veterans, I honor your service and individual sacrifice, but at the same time abhor war and the 'nationalistic' nonsense spewed by or leadership that gets us there.
178
I taught a segment on Vietnam in my college course on the sixties and found this clip of the lottery that may be of interest to many of you. We young women watched it alongside our male friends, holding a collective breath, sweating, praying. To my own students, it was a powerful revelation of what it would've mean to be their age during that time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p5X1FjyD_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p5X1FjyD_g
2
I was a sophomore when the first draft lottery was broadcast on the college radio station. I recall the screaming and slamming doors up and down the dorm corridor. My number was 50. Since the cutoff was considered to bee 100, I knew it was my time coming.
1
And "spewed" by "leaders" who never served in the military!
This Lib Dem, retired active duty Lt Colonel, Vietnam escapee (student deferment--dumbest thing ever those deferments), wishes the draft would come back as part of a universal service requirement. Subsequent post service education or job training to be paid for by the govt. More citizens need to have skin in the game and more citizen involvement may, hopefully, mitigate foolish military escapades.
280
Having a ready equipped Army is not a deterrent to going to war, quite the opposite. The all "volunteer army" of today has completely proven that. The draft back in the day, despite protests, had Nixon keep the war going through his entire Presidency.
War, is one of the best re-election devices ever invented. Bush, lowered taxes during the Iraq war. Job security, for elected officials.
War, is one of the best re-election devices ever invented. Bush, lowered taxes during the Iraq war. Job security, for elected officials.
1
I was drafted in 1966, and also wish the draft would be a permanent thing. Not only do "the people" have more skin in the game, it also means that a broader cross-section of the population is involved in the military, not just the right-wingers.
3
Service in the military or a domestic community or international humanitarian service should be the duty of every American citizen.
3
Mr. Leepson! Thank you! That was FASCINATING.
I am not Susan Fitzwater by the way. I am her husband. I missed being drafted by the skin of my teeth. But that's another story.
Two memories. The lottery is one. A vivid memory! Sometime in 1970 was it? I was a junior in college. Living at home. And I sat there in my living room. Alone. Staring dumbly at the TV. Hands sweaty. Mouth dry.
My number was 114. Coulda been worse. Coulda been better. A lot better.
I had to report for a physical. A bunch of us (from western New York) gathered in some small town, then boarded the bus and were driven to Buffalo. Home of a major induction center.
What sticks in my mind was--the bus pulling up to the curb and an officer standing outside with a bull horn. "Now boys! . . ." he began.
"This man," I told myself, "can order me around. He has that power. Right now, I am not my own man. I belong--body and soul--to the Army of the United States." A disagreeable thought. Very disagreeable. Very.
Another memory. My friend back in college. A year older than me. Bound for the Harvard Divinity School. "Barney!" I exclaimed. (Oh what a rube!) "I never thought you the religious type." He gave me an odd look--half-smiling. "Late revelation, Norm!" he told me. "Late revelation!"
Medical students and divinity students. . . . .
. . . . they didn't get drafted.
That was some revelation!
Blinding you might say.
I am not Susan Fitzwater by the way. I am her husband. I missed being drafted by the skin of my teeth. But that's another story.
Two memories. The lottery is one. A vivid memory! Sometime in 1970 was it? I was a junior in college. Living at home. And I sat there in my living room. Alone. Staring dumbly at the TV. Hands sweaty. Mouth dry.
My number was 114. Coulda been worse. Coulda been better. A lot better.
I had to report for a physical. A bunch of us (from western New York) gathered in some small town, then boarded the bus and were driven to Buffalo. Home of a major induction center.
What sticks in my mind was--the bus pulling up to the curb and an officer standing outside with a bull horn. "Now boys! . . ." he began.
"This man," I told myself, "can order me around. He has that power. Right now, I am not my own man. I belong--body and soul--to the Army of the United States." A disagreeable thought. Very disagreeable. Very.
Another memory. My friend back in college. A year older than me. Bound for the Harvard Divinity School. "Barney!" I exclaimed. (Oh what a rube!) "I never thought you the religious type." He gave me an odd look--half-smiling. "Late revelation, Norm!" he told me. "Late revelation!"
Medical students and divinity students. . . . .
. . . . they didn't get drafted.
That was some revelation!
Blinding you might say.
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what exactly is a "divinity student"?
My number was 111
I was 121. Thanks to the men and women that took my place. I look at myself now and say, "I'm lucky to be alive."
One cannot discount the positively good changes in domestic American life as a result of our Vietnam War. For many Americans the Vietnam War was an opportunity for social and economic advancement to live the American Dream. Millions of poor young African Americans, Caribbean, Asian and Spanish speaking Americans drafted to fight the war found an unprecedented opportunity in military training to acquire civilian skills and support for college degrees, leading to employment in skilled occupations in historic numbers.
Men as well as women became first-generation college professors, scientists, engineers, government administrators, judges, doctors, dentists, law enforcement agents, lawyers. journalists, business owners. politicians, and business executives.
While we don't need another misguided war as a pretext for a military draft, we badly need a peace time military draft. It would provide the same free training and health benefits today for ambitious but impoverished youths who lack the means or cultural structure, in the same draft benefits given to the previous generation.
Men as well as women became first-generation college professors, scientists, engineers, government administrators, judges, doctors, dentists, law enforcement agents, lawyers. journalists, business owners. politicians, and business executives.
While we don't need another misguided war as a pretext for a military draft, we badly need a peace time military draft. It would provide the same free training and health benefits today for ambitious but impoverished youths who lack the means or cultural structure, in the same draft benefits given to the previous generation.
3
I was born in 1965. I fail to see how any war the US has been involved in during my lifetime has made us any safer, freer, and or has somehow ensured my "way of life". And that includes wars by any other name. Yet the rhetoric goes on. Yes, maybe reinstating the draft would rouse people to consider more deeply whether the suffering wrought by war is worth whatever it is that the war is supposed to accomplish. And I mean the suffering of ALL, not just Americans.
36
The Peace Corps wasn't a refuge from the draft. One of the PC trainees in my program was drafted out of training in 1967. Once we completed our three month training program in California, and were sent abroad, it became more difficult to draft us from our posts in far away places, but it could and did happen.
In 1967, Jack Vaughn, then Peace Corps Director, went to the Presidential Appeals Board to make the case for PC Volunteer deferments, which helped ease the pressure on volunteers working abroad. I became draft eligible upon completion of my Peace Corps service in 1970, but received a high number in the lottery.
In 1967, Jack Vaughn, then Peace Corps Director, went to the Presidential Appeals Board to make the case for PC Volunteer deferments, which helped ease the pressure on volunteers working abroad. I became draft eligible upon completion of my Peace Corps service in 1970, but received a high number in the lottery.
14
Sometimes I think perhaps we should reinstate the draft and this time with no college deferment. Perhaps today's helicopter parents, who they themselves were never conscripted, might just wake up and hold our leaders accountable for their actions.
Trump has relinquished authority to the generals with zero civilian counter checks. Trump is fascinated with dictators and weapons. Trump is taken with those who wish us harm and seeks to destroy the protections of our institutions.
Yes, perhaps it's time to reinstate the draft, wake people and unleash the power of complacently sleepwalking parents.
Trump has relinquished authority to the generals with zero civilian counter checks. Trump is fascinated with dictators and weapons. Trump is taken with those who wish us harm and seeks to destroy the protections of our institutions.
Yes, perhaps it's time to reinstate the draft, wake people and unleash the power of complacently sleepwalking parents.
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Interesting article.
I recall when I was 17 thinking what I would do about the draft. Of course it was all hypothetical as I was in Canada (No Vietnam War and no draft). Still, if I had been an American, I wondered what would have happened to me.
My father was in WWII (volunteered as he figured they were eventually going to impose conscription anyway, which of course they did). He started out by joining the Canadian Navy. He probably didn't know at the time. But that was a rather dangerous place to be, what with submarines and all. (The Canadian Navy was eventually withdrawn from the Battle of the Atlantic for some months for retraining as it had suffered far higher losses than either the American or British navies)
At any rate, my father was kicked out when they discovered he didn't see very well (he'd faked the original eye test). His next choice was the air force. They let him in though they put him into the ground crew rather than fly in the planes (the vision thing again). He had a pretty good war, making it all the way to India and returning home all in one piece.
Now having somewhat better (though not perfect) vision and having taught myself how to touch-type when I was 15, and probably not wanting to do anything drastic like flee to Canada, I might have been drafted. And reading the story and comments, I probably would have ended up being a clerk.
Check that mystery off as being solved.
I recall when I was 17 thinking what I would do about the draft. Of course it was all hypothetical as I was in Canada (No Vietnam War and no draft). Still, if I had been an American, I wondered what would have happened to me.
My father was in WWII (volunteered as he figured they were eventually going to impose conscription anyway, which of course they did). He started out by joining the Canadian Navy. He probably didn't know at the time. But that was a rather dangerous place to be, what with submarines and all. (The Canadian Navy was eventually withdrawn from the Battle of the Atlantic for some months for retraining as it had suffered far higher losses than either the American or British navies)
At any rate, my father was kicked out when they discovered he didn't see very well (he'd faked the original eye test). His next choice was the air force. They let him in though they put him into the ground crew rather than fly in the planes (the vision thing again). He had a pretty good war, making it all the way to India and returning home all in one piece.
Now having somewhat better (though not perfect) vision and having taught myself how to touch-type when I was 15, and probably not wanting to do anything drastic like flee to Canada, I might have been drafted. And reading the story and comments, I probably would have ended up being a clerk.
Check that mystery off as being solved.
1
Excessively interesting to read and ponder, what if we would not have left Vietnam after the 10 plus years?
3
It would be Afghanistan.
8
It was 1970, had a low lottery number and anticipated being drafted after college graduation. Felt the duty to serve but depressed about the state of affairs with Kent State, Nixon's incursion into Cambodia and the never ending parade of flag draped coffins coming back from SE Asia. Went to AirForce recruiter to see about OCS and flight school, signed up to take the test, and just walked across the hall to see what the Army could offer. "Two guaranteed years in Germany on a three year enlistment " as a Pershing Missile crewman, MOS 15E. After training at Fort Sill, off to Bavaria for 3 years as a clerk, a masters degree in night school in Munich, and a wonderful time traveling in Europe. Used the GI bill to attend medical school. Sometimes even the draft worked out.
20
My 50th draft anniversary is Sept 15, 1967, 2 months later than his. I also went to Fort Dix but became 11B, infantry. I flew from Ft lewis, Washington to Korea and wound up in a foxhole on the DMZ. Three months later I was sent to Brigade HQ to be a draftsman and worked on maps. Art school saved me a lot of drudgery. I'm still very good at reading maps.
8
And by the way I was drafted before the lottery in '67. The lottery began Dec 1, 1969 and my lottery number was 356 when I left the Army in '68. So much for timing.
Fifty years ago in August, at the age of 17, I enlisted in the U.S. Army. I went to Fort Polk, and became "cannon fodder", an infantry soldier, and I was in country (in Vietnam) in February 1968. I thought then it was the right thing to do. My father served, I should serve. I remember the day I left Vietnam. I was straight out of the boonies, hot, sweaty, somewhat slightly dazed, staring across a desk at a clerk in starched fatigues, in an air-conditioned hut, processing my paperwork. Mighta been you, Marc. And here we are now. I eventually saw the futility of it all, and protested against the war. But I don't think I'd change my path, even if I could. It's part of what made me who I am now. Life is strange.
49
Glenn, Great memories... It wasn't me, however, as we didn't have a.c. and my fatigues tended to be rumpled and starch-less. Thank you for your service, brother. Marc
7
Your “1.8 million” figure would be more meaningful if you said from when as well as till when. There was a draft all through the fifties and sixties. I got caught in it. So, you may remember, did Elvis Presley.
2
I found the answer to PL's question by Googling "number of americans drafted by year"
https://www.sss.gov/About/History-And-Records/Induction-Statistics
It took considerably less typing to answer PL's question than he invested in asking it!
https://www.sss.gov/About/History-And-Records/Induction-Statistics
It took considerably less typing to answer PL's question than he invested in asking it!
1
Good point. I meant to say that 1.8 million were drafted during the Vietnam War. Check out sss.gov/About/History-And-Records/Induction-Statistics
2
@Dan Styer ... The last part of your comment sounds like a third-grader asking why he should learn his multiplication tables when he can just look them up so much easier on the internet. @PL asked a question that prompted your response which allows me to think about something I wouldn't before: it's a called a conversation. Thanks @PL.
1
The year was 1968 and I was in high school. A handful of male teachers made no bones about it that they were teachers in my run-down NYC high school just so they could avoid the draft. Teachers were draft deferred. I remember feeling so wanted by these phony educators.
5
I knew one of our teachers admitted to that when we were covering Vietnam. He was a little dry but took his job really seriously. I can't really blame those boys--who wants to die? I don't blame you for feeling the way you do either.
1
My birthday was #1 in the 1972 draft lottery. By 1972 there were almost no deferments for college students, and the lottery was televised nationally with miniskirted beauties drawing the capsules. The legitimacy of that lottery was challenged by Senator Ted Kennedy because of the unusual number of March birthdates near the top of the list.
Kennedy was proven to be correct. The Pentagon admitted the drawing was flawed. In their excitement of staging this lottery, they had failed to mix the lottery drum after all the capsules were put in. Nonetheless, the Pentagon refused to re-do the lottery because they had spent so much money televising the event.
Although ultimately no one was drafted from the 1972 list, it was unclear this would happen at the time of the lottery. Since I was not a conscientious objector, was not gay, and had no intention of fleeing to Canada or Sweden, I applied for an ROTC scholarship, calculating this would at least allow me to complete college and enter the military as an officer rather than as an enlisted soldier.
I used the ROTC scholarship to transfer to a more prestigious college than the one I was attending and much to my surprise, I eventually completed a twenty-year career in the Army. Life can be full of surprise twists and turns.
Kennedy was proven to be correct. The Pentagon admitted the drawing was flawed. In their excitement of staging this lottery, they had failed to mix the lottery drum after all the capsules were put in. Nonetheless, the Pentagon refused to re-do the lottery because they had spent so much money televising the event.
Although ultimately no one was drafted from the 1972 list, it was unclear this would happen at the time of the lottery. Since I was not a conscientious objector, was not gay, and had no intention of fleeing to Canada or Sweden, I applied for an ROTC scholarship, calculating this would at least allow me to complete college and enter the military as an officer rather than as an enlisted soldier.
I used the ROTC scholarship to transfer to a more prestigious college than the one I was attending and much to my surprise, I eventually completed a twenty-year career in the Army. Life can be full of surprise twists and turns.
53
At my college there was agitation to kick AF ROTC off campus.
Having known a number of sons of career officers & service academy graduates, I attempted to argue to keep at least some semblance of liberal arts broader view of life in the professional officer corps.
Alas, my arguments fell on deaf ears.
Having known a number of sons of career officers & service academy graduates, I attempted to argue to keep at least some semblance of liberal arts broader view of life in the professional officer corps.
Alas, my arguments fell on deaf ears.
I too was #1 in 1972 and though I would not be drafted I joined the Navy and served 4 years. I am glad I did.
Three years after the author, his story, in eerily similar sequence and detail, repeated itself for me. In between it likely did the same for thousands of Our peers. My variation was that I had applied for, and was granted, a
1-AO classification after graduation. The 1-AO was originall reserved for a small number of religious adherents, including Seventh Day Adventists, who were opposed to combatant service but not to the military as such. Earlier in 1970, the Supreme Court ruled that a consistently-held, but not necessarily religious, belief could also be the basis of this classification. I applied as I had grown up in post-war Germany where the stated mission of the occupying forces was to demilitarize the new German society. I had been part of that society, and though I now lived in the US, those lessons had stuck. My basic training at Echo-4 company at Fort Sam Houston was modified for non-combatants, and all of us went directly into advanced training to become Medical Corpsmen (91 Bravo). After going through the Oakland "repo depot" and the 90th in Long Binh, as the author did, I served as a medic at a small engineering battalion site in the Central Highlands. Since I could type, I also did double duty as the morning reports clerk. All of this was a bizarre time in my life, but I grew immensely through it all.
1-AO classification after graduation. The 1-AO was originall reserved for a small number of religious adherents, including Seventh Day Adventists, who were opposed to combatant service but not to the military as such. Earlier in 1970, the Supreme Court ruled that a consistently-held, but not necessarily religious, belief could also be the basis of this classification. I applied as I had grown up in post-war Germany where the stated mission of the occupying forces was to demilitarize the new German society. I had been part of that society, and though I now lived in the US, those lessons had stuck. My basic training at Echo-4 company at Fort Sam Houston was modified for non-combatants, and all of us went directly into advanced training to become Medical Corpsmen (91 Bravo). After going through the Oakland "repo depot" and the 90th in Long Binh, as the author did, I served as a medic at a small engineering battalion site in the Central Highlands. Since I could type, I also did double duty as the morning reports clerk. All of this was a bizarre time in my life, but I grew immensely through it all.
20
In the Spring of 1968, they cancelled student deferments for grad students. I got my draft notice 2 weeks later. After basic training at Ft Lewis, Washington, I got an MOS of 13B10, Field Artillery. On July 15th 1969, I went to Vietnam and spent 11 months and 28 days in rice paddies, living in sandbag bunkers and controlling four 155 mm howitzers, including a two weeks in Cambodia.
30
One of the things I remember the most was the continual character going of the rules. During the period from 1965 to 1970, deferment for married men, married men with children and graduate students were all canceled. The "pool" of available young men kept shrinking. It was certainly not unlimited. Nobody could really plan their lives with the draft hanging over them. It's no wonder that so many people enlisted just to have the uncertainty finally resolved.
Like just about everybody that had skin in the game, I sat transfixed to the television as the numbers were drawn that would determine my fate. Through the luck of the draw, I didn't have to deal with what others couldn't escape. By then, there weren't many that wanted to go. Those that did had signed up, the rest of us just just kept our fingers crossed.
24
What it was like to not be drafted. It was draft lottery day, 1970. The word was, if your number was over 100, you were safe. My entire family was gathered around the television, watching the days and numbers go by. Then my birthday came up. May 19. 147. I was safe. Everyone but me started cheering. I had a small smile, but tremendous sadness, knowing how many of my high school classmates wouldn't be as lucky as I was.
47
Kids these days just wouldn't understand. Congrats, you played and won. Looks like you won your first and maybe most important lottery.
1
I have a vivid memory of the draft in either 1970 or 1971...through the eyes of the 9yr old child I was at the time. The place was a stay-away summer camp on the coast of New Hampshire. It was my 2nd summer there, and the counselors we looked up to ranged in age from 17-21. Normally, summer camp was a daily, noisy, boisterous, affair. While I knew there was thing called the 'draft' and 'lottery numbers', it was something beyond my personal experience. I knew my father, a 1961 immigrant to the US, had to deal with the draft board after my parents got their green card in 1968, but as a parent with children he was put on deferment.
One day, at camp, things got a little less fun, a little less boisterous, a bit more apprehensive, because something was occupying the attention of the young men in charge of us kids. They were waiting for the numbers printed in the local papers. That night, the counselors disappeared early and stayed long into the night. The following day, somber and foggy, as I recall, we found out why: one of the counselors--my camp counselor--had his number drawn. He was due to report...somewhere...literally days later. His peers were crying as he left the camp. To this day, I still recall having to 'get to know' our new camp counselor, who'd just been promoted from 'assistant' counselor. Over the years and decades I always wondered what happened to my 19yr old buddy? Did he survive the war? Or is his name on the wall in DC?
One day, at camp, things got a little less fun, a little less boisterous, a bit more apprehensive, because something was occupying the attention of the young men in charge of us kids. They were waiting for the numbers printed in the local papers. That night, the counselors disappeared early and stayed long into the night. The following day, somber and foggy, as I recall, we found out why: one of the counselors--my camp counselor--had his number drawn. He was due to report...somewhere...literally days later. His peers were crying as he left the camp. To this day, I still recall having to 'get to know' our new camp counselor, who'd just been promoted from 'assistant' counselor. Over the years and decades I always wondered what happened to my 19yr old buddy? Did he survive the war? Or is his name on the wall in DC?
92