States governments should just abandon these federal play actors and stand up like Massachusetts has.
3
The press should learn what the Senate is quickly, if painfully, learning: to deal with Trump, ignore Trump.
"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." - OSCAR WILDE
"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." - OSCAR WILDE
4
this legislative fiasco after almost 8 yrs of time to prep shows how weak and ineffectual the Liar in Chief and the 115th Congress are. His Bullying tactics and insincere jabs at Republicans, of which he truly isn't one, are proving counter productive and t his trumpie 5 yr old antics /petulant crybaby attitude show why he is grossly unfit to be the commander in Chief .
3
Rebublicians are realizing that when people get an entitlement they may not know how they got or who wasa for it, but take it away and they will remember who took it away
4
Mr. Trump's crass threats to stymie reelection bids for GOP lawmakers who reject his demands for political obiescence are nothing but hot air.
Given his demonstrated lack of discipline and reluctance to work weekends or overtime, I question whether Trump would campaign enthusiastically to help his supporters. Regardless, his abysmal approval ratings suggest that now, even some who helped elect him regret their votes. Thus, if Trump stumps for GOP candidates, he may be unhelpful-or a hindrance-to their campaigns.
Mr. Trump's breezy campaign promises to quickly "repeal and replace" Obamacare have fizzled. No surprise there: POTUS never had a real replacement plan of his own, and the GOP leadership failed to develop a superior, implementation-ready Obamacare alternative during 7 years of think time. The President's performance since Inauguration Day suggests he lacks the skills and temperament to facilitate passage of "Trumpcare". Hallelujah! Policy wonks agree: the half-baked ACA replacement plans declined by Congress to date would uninsure millions of Americans-again. Compassionate, level-headed Americans can see that this would be a bad thing.
As so, I doubt GOP legislators will lose elections if they decide not to support Obamacare's destruction. If the wrath of Mr. Trump does block their political careers, they should be comforted by the knowledge that they voted in their constituents' best interests.
Given his demonstrated lack of discipline and reluctance to work weekends or overtime, I question whether Trump would campaign enthusiastically to help his supporters. Regardless, his abysmal approval ratings suggest that now, even some who helped elect him regret their votes. Thus, if Trump stumps for GOP candidates, he may be unhelpful-or a hindrance-to their campaigns.
Mr. Trump's breezy campaign promises to quickly "repeal and replace" Obamacare have fizzled. No surprise there: POTUS never had a real replacement plan of his own, and the GOP leadership failed to develop a superior, implementation-ready Obamacare alternative during 7 years of think time. The President's performance since Inauguration Day suggests he lacks the skills and temperament to facilitate passage of "Trumpcare". Hallelujah! Policy wonks agree: the half-baked ACA replacement plans declined by Congress to date would uninsure millions of Americans-again. Compassionate, level-headed Americans can see that this would be a bad thing.
As so, I doubt GOP legislators will lose elections if they decide not to support Obamacare's destruction. If the wrath of Mr. Trump does block their political careers, they should be comforted by the knowledge that they voted in their constituents' best interests.
2
Trump doesn't care what is in the health care bill. He wants something passed so he can declare it a "win." Are we tired of "winning" folks?
3
This political squabble will not resolve our healthcare crisis.
There is big gap between what people need and the resources available to pay for it.
One has to be extremely poor or extremely wealthy to not worry about medical bills.
The arguments revolve around taxation and distribution resources. There is no discussion on how to lower medical costs for a given level of service.
Perhaps half of medical cost goes toward treating diseases that are caused by diabetes and high blood pressure. These can be prevented with diet and exercise if started at an early age. Proper lifestyle is not optional.
About a third of medical costs go to bureaucracy. Doctors wasting hours per day on Byzantine electronic paperwork. Legions of medical billing clerks warring with the insurance clerks over reimbursement.
Hospitals are filled with grossly overpaid management staff that doesn't treat patients nor maintain facilities. Unlimited critical care expenses for the uninsured are significant. The cost of medical and facilities supplies is out of control due to lack of supplier competition.
Pharmaceuticals have no caps on profit or marketing. Medical litigation has no bounds on monitory awards.
This list is endless but is never seriously discussed by politicians because ... they don't represent the citizens. That is part of the reason for the rise of populism.
There is big gap between what people need and the resources available to pay for it.
One has to be extremely poor or extremely wealthy to not worry about medical bills.
The arguments revolve around taxation and distribution resources. There is no discussion on how to lower medical costs for a given level of service.
Perhaps half of medical cost goes toward treating diseases that are caused by diabetes and high blood pressure. These can be prevented with diet and exercise if started at an early age. Proper lifestyle is not optional.
About a third of medical costs go to bureaucracy. Doctors wasting hours per day on Byzantine electronic paperwork. Legions of medical billing clerks warring with the insurance clerks over reimbursement.
Hospitals are filled with grossly overpaid management staff that doesn't treat patients nor maintain facilities. Unlimited critical care expenses for the uninsured are significant. The cost of medical and facilities supplies is out of control due to lack of supplier competition.
Pharmaceuticals have no caps on profit or marketing. Medical litigation has no bounds on monitory awards.
This list is endless but is never seriously discussed by politicians because ... they don't represent the citizens. That is part of the reason for the rise of populism.
1
Even after 7 years' practice, the GOP can't come up with something better than the ACA. Maybe it is time for them to (a) stop trying to repeal "Obamacare" simply to have a political victory and work with the Dems for bipartisan fixes to the weaknesses it does have; (b) quit thinking that the voters are so stupid that they can't see when you are selling them snake oil (we ARE learning) and that the recent proposed bills are simply tax advantages for the oligarchy; (c) if the GOP thinks Obamacare is a bugaboo, wait until single payer gets more traction and actually cuts out all those healthcare and pharma corporations that have so generously donated to your campaigns. Time to wake up, Congress, and to be reminded that your job is to work for the benefit of ALL Americans, and it might be worthwhile to spend a little on their health. After all, that is where your voters are.
2
From The New York Times interview, it is clear that Trump has some serious cognitive issues --- long rambling thoughts, word salad sentences, simple vocabulary, non sequiturs, muddled logic, flight of ideas and incoherent answers. Trying to discuss health insurance, he strangely described life insurance in which someone pays $15 a month from young adulthood and accrues a sizable policy by old age. What?
So who would fear a doddering fool who is clearly off his rocker?
So who would fear a doddering fool who is clearly off his rocker?
7
There would be even less fear when Congress finally starts impeachment proceedings.
5
It's all about getting a signing ceremony for Trump. His followers will be giddy with victory. What a high that day will be! And the only way to get the strong support for Trump to crumble is to let them have it. Until they get the feeling that they have rubbed our faces in something that we hate, they will keep after it. Unfortunately, it is also the only way that they will learn.
2
Trump offered to play golf with Rand Paul if Paul would change his vote to a yes. Can you imagine anyone of any principle changing one's mind because this buffoon offered to play golf with you?
4
Jim Tagley, do you really think there's ANYONE in Congress with any principles any more ? If so, please tell me. Inquiring minds want to know.
McConnell et. al. inclusive the POTUS claim they can repeal, allow the ACA to continue for two years and by that said time they, the GOP leadership will have worked out a new and better health care plan for the meriKans in entirety. In seven years they've said they would replace... the house gave it their "best" 18 day effort, and the senate gave it their "best" 33 day effort, with a combined score of ZERO or possibly minus points forward.
To say they will ultimately replace to them means days, not months, nor years.
They seem not to understand the process yet watched the democratic house take OVER a year to hammer out the current ACA.
IF the ACA fails it will NOT BE OWNED BY THE democratic party but by the 'current' POTUS, House and Senate Leadership or lack thereof.
To say they will ultimately replace to them means days, not months, nor years.
They seem not to understand the process yet watched the democratic house take OVER a year to hammer out the current ACA.
IF the ACA fails it will NOT BE OWNED BY THE democratic party but by the 'current' POTUS, House and Senate Leadership or lack thereof.
4
On Election Day, Donald Trump had a 36% approval rating. Today, he has a 40% approval rating. He may not be personally popular, but people should understand that he represents an idea -- at least a discomfort with DC -- that transcends his personal approval rating. Congresspersons who ignore his statements are ignoring large blocks of their voters at their own peril. Actually, they are insulting and energizing large blocks of their voters to vote against them in the next primary or election.
1
Our Representatives and Senators need to remember that they work for us, the American people, not whoever is in the Oval Office. Their votes should reflect what their constituents want. Furthermore, ruling by fear has never really worked, if fosters ill feelings and frustrations and eventually revolt. It's best to be able to trust and respect the president, rather than fear him.
5
The ill feelings, based on hard facts of a Congress (and, above all, an Executive Branch) working for their own benefit and prostituting their oaths of office to businesses and donors to stay in office, will ultimately backfire. These same individuals have promoted the profligate dissemination of guns and "carry" laws. Once the "base" realizes they've been had (it seems to be taking a long time, thanks to "fake" news outlets and Fox), what goes around will come around, albeit lethally.
It's little wonder that GOP "town meetings" are now pre-vetted with pro-GOP claques: anyone with sense would call these allegedl public servants on the carpet.
It's little wonder that GOP "town meetings" are now pre-vetted with pro-GOP claques: anyone with sense would call these allegedl public servants on the carpet.
3
Nobody trusts or respects an insane person. They medicate them or keep them out of harming themselves or others.
2
The fact that 85% of Republicans still support the already failed Trump Presidency says much about how dismal the future of the US actually is.
Regardless of your location on the left-right political spectrum a fair evaluation would tell you that Trump is in way, way over his head. Republicans remain nominally in charge but they have no effective leadership. However, as long as 85% of Republicans voters can still be herded into line by Fox News, a functional republic in this country will remain just a fond dream from the past.
Regardless of your location on the left-right political spectrum a fair evaluation would tell you that Trump is in way, way over his head. Republicans remain nominally in charge but they have no effective leadership. However, as long as 85% of Republicans voters can still be herded into line by Fox News, a functional republic in this country will remain just a fond dream from the past.
13
Not even the Senate pages are afraid of Trump? Perhaps the page boys aren't but the page girls should be, given Trump' s videotaped boasting about groping women.
It really doesn't matter if Trump tries to press the Senators on the health bill. Acceptance or rejection of the healthcare bill is the prerogative of the American people not Trump or the Senate. So they can forget it. We will not accept it. Single payer is the RIght way.
1
All bark no bite, people have finally figured it out, he has been doing this stuff for years.
The bill will pass cause the Republicans got their marching orders from their Billionaire paymaster insisting they get a huge tax cut no mater how many people will die. It 's your government, you voted for them.
Who new that " presidenting" would be more complicated, and much more difficult, than " Real Estate Development " ???? Well, nearly everyone.
Under this plan if Senator McCain were poor and on Medicaid, he'd be dead.
2
why does he have to scare them into doing something? isnt ths still a democracy? dont we work together to come to consensus?
Who made him dictator?
I do not live in Russia.
We live in America!
Who made him dictator?
I do not live in Russia.
We live in America!
When a man campaigns for the Presidency by portraying himself as a loudmouthed bully with no political experience or relevant expertise; and when the electorate chooses to put that ignorant bully in the White House (albeit with a heapin' helpin' of assistance from Russian propagandists and hackers, Republican voter suppression efforts and an archaic Electoral College system) --
Voila! Your President turns out to be exactly what he told you he was, is and ever will be: an ignorant, loudmouthed bully who has no clue how government works and no idea what 'leadership' is all about.
A pathetic mess all around.
Voila! Your President turns out to be exactly what he told you he was, is and ever will be: an ignorant, loudmouthed bully who has no clue how government works and no idea what 'leadership' is all about.
A pathetic mess all around.
1
Trump's presidency doesn't seem "young" to me. It's so infantile, ignorant, and yet interminable, I think of it as more of a primordial slime presidency.
3
Republicans can prove through their actions that they are better people than Trump. When Trump falls they may avoid the same fate.
Senator Heller should have spit in his eye when Trump patronizingly asked him if he wanted to remain a senator.
2
Am I correct in thinking that with Senator John McCain absent for at least several weeks, the Republicans now number 51. So if only 2 Republicans vote against the bill, it will fail?
1
Donald thinks he's Lyndon Johnson, but you know what? He is not Lyndon Johnson.
3
The Apprentice does not have any respect in the Senate and the House. He provides no vision, leadership or inspiration of any kind to his Congress. Without that leadership, McConnell is useless at inspiring his majority to vote his way. Congress is wayward and divided because of this two deep leadership vacuum.
1
Why would any Representative or Senator fear the President? The people in Congress are part of an independent and co-equal branch of government, not people down the chain of command from the President. If he wants their cooperation he has to offer them what they find worth gaining or he has to convince them to assume the same position on proposal as he has advocated, or he has to convince them that others who agree with the President will help or hinder the member politically. If he shows pique or threatens them based upon his own popularity, it's likely not to be taken seriously. It means that he fails to understand the environment in which he expects to succeed.
Why would anyone fear Trump? If you've noticed, Trump only goes out among crowds that are pre screened for loyalty, and held at increasingly smaller and smaller venues. He couldn't even fill the Cedar Rapids arena that had a capacity for 9000. And if Trump is afraid to speak to crowds at large, why should any congressman be afraid to standup for what's best for his constituents?
Trump is the very definition of style over substance, he was elected by people who bought what he was selling - a successful businessman who's definition of leadership was strength through abuse and who's greatest asset was his complete ignorance of how ideas become a political or legal reality.
however, ignorance is just ignorance. And, as he's discovering, bluster and bullying has only limited effect, drives away allies and prevents lasting relationships from being formed. People WANT to follow leaders, even through adverse circumstances, usually because their ideas are sound or their motives admirable. They follow bullies only until the second they can get away from them.
Most republican legislators have always seen him as lacking virtue or ability but they may now be learning that he has no power either. Indeed most Republican legislators in all likelihood want to achieve things while in office. Following trump is going to achieve nothing and when these folks are writing their memoirs in 15 years they'll wonder what they were smoking.
But ultimately the real shame is that Democrats are failing to capitalise on the most important thing. Many voters picked trump because 1) he makes them feel strong and 2) they believe he can "get things done".
While he may continue to succeed at demagoguery and division he demonstrably can't get things done, and hopefully even in today's tribal political arena that weakness will be punished. If it's not then we really are lost.
however, ignorance is just ignorance. And, as he's discovering, bluster and bullying has only limited effect, drives away allies and prevents lasting relationships from being formed. People WANT to follow leaders, even through adverse circumstances, usually because their ideas are sound or their motives admirable. They follow bullies only until the second they can get away from them.
Most republican legislators have always seen him as lacking virtue or ability but they may now be learning that he has no power either. Indeed most Republican legislators in all likelihood want to achieve things while in office. Following trump is going to achieve nothing and when these folks are writing their memoirs in 15 years they'll wonder what they were smoking.
But ultimately the real shame is that Democrats are failing to capitalise on the most important thing. Many voters picked trump because 1) he makes them feel strong and 2) they believe he can "get things done".
While he may continue to succeed at demagoguery and division he demonstrably can't get things done, and hopefully even in today's tribal political arena that weakness will be punished. If it's not then we really are lost.
What the times doesn't point out is that, although 85% of republicans might want to demolish Obama care, that's only until they find out that the ACA and Obamacare are the same thing. Then, they change their tune and that's why republicans in the house and the Senate are on their toes because they've been getting a mouthful in their respective townhall meetings.
During Trump's embarrassing "dressing down" of his GOP Senators, I kind of got the feeling McConnel would be leaning over to Schumer and whispering, "You're right, we have to get rid of this guy!"
I have little doubt that if "Obamacare" were put on Trumps desk he would sign it as long as it was now called "Trumpcare." He knows very little about what is actually in any of these bills...
Trump's unwanted familiarity, like that of a distant cousin no one in the family wants anything to do with, makes everyone feel terribly uncomfortable however they may mask it with hypocritical joviality (which in turn only encourages POTUS to greater and greater excesses in stupidity). Maybe for everyone's sake Trump ought to be sequestered, especially from lawmakers, as if he carried the plague - which he does.
He's sitting at his desk, pen in one hand and remote control in the other, wondering why nobody listens to him.
Let him sulk, he may eventually realize he is better off going back to his former life as a reality tv personality. We'll all benefit from it.
Let him sulk, he may eventually realize he is better off going back to his former life as a reality tv personality. We'll all benefit from it.
Trump has no juice and no clout. This is why I laughed at the terrified people who bought into the whole "HE'S A DICTATOR!!!!" and "HE'S HITLER!!!" scare tactics that comprised the failed democrat opposition during the campaign.
Trump is just plain ineffectual. Like he has always been.
This is why I felt so elated when Trump entered the race as a republican.
As I knew would happen, Trump has fractured the party and is now making life absolutely miserable for them. In May, Senator McConnell vented his frustration:
"I think we could do with a little less drama from the White House on a lot of things so we can focus on our agenda, which is deregulation, tax reform, repealing and replacing Obamacare."
Meaning with Trump, even though they have a majority they and their agenda are stuck, as their two failed attempts to repeal the ACA indicates.
And as a further "Trump Bonus"® it is a delight to see the president criticized and attacked when he continues the worst of the policies Mr. Obama got a pass on. I say: Welcome Back to the anti-war democrats who somehow vanished for 8 years as Mr. Obama grew the two Bush wars into seven. That we know of.
Until a suitable candidate emerges, this placeholder-president is like a gift from above. Unable to get anything done. Ripping apart the GOP. Energizing dissent across the land... Who could ask for more?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Trump is just plain ineffectual. Like he has always been.
This is why I felt so elated when Trump entered the race as a republican.
As I knew would happen, Trump has fractured the party and is now making life absolutely miserable for them. In May, Senator McConnell vented his frustration:
"I think we could do with a little less drama from the White House on a lot of things so we can focus on our agenda, which is deregulation, tax reform, repealing and replacing Obamacare."
Meaning with Trump, even though they have a majority they and their agenda are stuck, as their two failed attempts to repeal the ACA indicates.
And as a further "Trump Bonus"® it is a delight to see the president criticized and attacked when he continues the worst of the policies Mr. Obama got a pass on. I say: Welcome Back to the anti-war democrats who somehow vanished for 8 years as Mr. Obama grew the two Bush wars into seven. That we know of.
Until a suitable candidate emerges, this placeholder-president is like a gift from above. Unable to get anything done. Ripping apart the GOP. Energizing dissent across the land... Who could ask for more?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
First question to ask senators : will they adopt the same insurance they are thrusting on us. Will they accept the same conditions and costs? If yes, then go ahead and do it. Why do they have a gold plated insurance coverage, and why do they exempt themselves from any health insurance change made for us?
1
Forcing a vote next week could backfire on Trump and McConnell. Most American understand that the bill passed by the House, and the even worse bill put forth by the Senate, deserve a "No" vote.
Voting "No" to a bill that would hurt most Americans is probably going to drive the support of most Americans. Obama is long gone, and the GOP and Trump have said for a long time they have something less expensive and better.
That is clearly a lie. Go ahead and have the vote McConnell. It will throw a bright light on the rift between the Senators and Trump, in the Senators' favor, and further isolating Trump.
Voting "No" to a bill that would hurt most Americans is probably going to drive the support of most Americans. Obama is long gone, and the GOP and Trump have said for a long time they have something less expensive and better.
That is clearly a lie. Go ahead and have the vote McConnell. It will throw a bright light on the rift between the Senators and Trump, in the Senators' favor, and further isolating Trump.
Re: McConnell's planned procedural vote next week- ENOUGH with the votes already Mitch. We're on the Titanic and you're busy rearranging the deck chairs again. The only vote that really counts is that of the American people and WE don't want the ACA overturned.Improved- yes, gutted - no! STOP your dog and pony show.
2
Its easy to strip others of their healthcare plans when these [GOP]senators don't have any skin in the game. Would they vote for repeal or repeal and replace if they had to give up their gold standard level of healthcare paid via the U.S. taxpayer as well? No of course not, they would look to shore it up and actually work on behalf of the American citizen than the powerful healthcare industry.
1
Trump is caught inside his own reality tv bubble ... he thinks he can just say, "You're fired!" and everything will go his way. He has no idea how to govern, only how to demand.
It can't be said enough: Donald Trump was never a master negotiator. His primary skill, such as it was, was fooling gullible people, or swindling those who trusted him.
Memo to Mr. Trump. Nobody trusts you anymore. And you are no longer negotiating with gullible people. You are negotiating with knowledgeable and powerful counter-parties.
Obviously, that hasn't sunk in to Mr. Trump.
Memo to Mr. Trump. Nobody trusts you anymore. And you are no longer negotiating with gullible people. You are negotiating with knowledgeable and powerful counter-parties.
Obviously, that hasn't sunk in to Mr. Trump.
11
There is little political risk for any Republican Senator or Representative opposing Trump simply because he remains a political neophyte. Anyone seeking public alignment with him does so only at the risk of public humiliation by Trump.
Why would any of these Senators be loyal to Trump, fully knowing Trump will at some point or another during his term likely find some strange reason to turn on each and every one of them. Trumps's demands for loyalty makes him more a dictator than our President. Regardless, it is good to know there are a few senators thinking about their constituents best interests.
1
How does one win an argument when one is all over the place, and one's positions are always changing?
DJT wanted affordable healthcare for EVERYBODY during the campaign as well as repeal/replace all at the same time, the holds a celebration in White House after Republican Congressmen pass a repeal/replace bill, then later calls it mean, changes his position when Senators were crafting a bill - Mon. AM calls for repeal/replace, later that day calls for repeal now/ replace later, Wed AM calls for Let Obamacare fail, then later that day back to Repeal/replace.
Sounds to me like checking how the wind blows - not exactly the quality one admires in a leader.
Do Republican Senators really feel they'll have DJT's back with whatever they'll come up with?
It would be better if Senators do what's good for their constituents. Sen. Heller, hang in there.
DJT wanted affordable healthcare for EVERYBODY during the campaign as well as repeal/replace all at the same time, the holds a celebration in White House after Republican Congressmen pass a repeal/replace bill, then later calls it mean, changes his position when Senators were crafting a bill - Mon. AM calls for repeal/replace, later that day calls for repeal now/ replace later, Wed AM calls for Let Obamacare fail, then later that day back to Repeal/replace.
Sounds to me like checking how the wind blows - not exactly the quality one admires in a leader.
Do Republican Senators really feel they'll have DJT's back with whatever they'll come up with?
It would be better if Senators do what's good for their constituents. Sen. Heller, hang in there.
Trump, so it seems, doesn't have a chance.
He's fighting the WP-NYT et al. swamp-media bent on destroying him because he's out to dismantle the Obama years of Marxist stomping, and he's got both the RNC and the DNC Politburo leadership to battle, the former hates him as much as the latter--for the same reason, revealing their obsessive inbred corruption--, not to mention the criminal leakers and "unnamed former and current" sources at the CIA and NSA who want that old-time religion back, Russians as Dantean ogres and chimeras.
So goes the swamp ooze till there ain't no more money.
He's fighting the WP-NYT et al. swamp-media bent on destroying him because he's out to dismantle the Obama years of Marxist stomping, and he's got both the RNC and the DNC Politburo leadership to battle, the former hates him as much as the latter--for the same reason, revealing their obsessive inbred corruption--, not to mention the criminal leakers and "unnamed former and current" sources at the CIA and NSA who want that old-time religion back, Russians as Dantean ogres and chimeras.
So goes the swamp ooze till there ain't no more money.
"Trump Struggles to Sell Health Bill to Balky Senators."
In baseball, it's the pitcher who balks. Mr. Trump claimed he could put the ball over the plate. He wound up, motioned like he was going to throw, but - for whatever reason (inexperience, lost his concentration) - choked and didn't get off the pitch. Runner advances.
He hasn't got the stuff. Bench him. Put in your closer; which is a problem if you haven't got anybody warming up in the bullpen.
Maybe hope for a rain delay?
In baseball, it's the pitcher who balks. Mr. Trump claimed he could put the ball over the plate. He wound up, motioned like he was going to throw, but - for whatever reason (inexperience, lost his concentration) - choked and didn't get off the pitch. Runner advances.
He hasn't got the stuff. Bench him. Put in your closer; which is a problem if you haven't got anybody warming up in the bullpen.
Maybe hope for a rain delay?
It's jus that the GOPers don't fear Trump; also, the do fear owning the fallout from this bill, if it becomes law.
The GOP's "repeal and replace" has been a lot of hot air for years. The worst thing for the GOP would be its becoming real. The blowback (on the GOP) will be furious and prolonged. They won't be able to run, they won't be able to hide.
Having made their silliness abundantly clear as this point, should the bill become law their silliness will inspire hatred for the GOP the likes of which is hard exaggerate. Long after Trump is gone, the hatred won't be.
The GOP's "repeal and replace" has been a lot of hot air for years. The worst thing for the GOP would be its becoming real. The blowback (on the GOP) will be furious and prolonged. They won't be able to run, they won't be able to hide.
Having made their silliness abundantly clear as this point, should the bill become law their silliness will inspire hatred for the GOP the likes of which is hard exaggerate. Long after Trump is gone, the hatred won't be.
62
They do fear the Ultimate Death Panel of Adelson, Mercer and Koch
Once the victims of this "repeal" only in the GOP "base" realize they've been dealt an early death for reasons of an idiotic ideology, but that these same people have promoted gun ownership and use and they own guns, they may also realize that one can die only once. One can die by oneself like a deer in the headlights, or one can die like the heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and the Sobibor murder camp uprising (both in Nazi-occupied 1943 Poland) and take as many of their oppressors as possible with them.
I believe GOP "lawmakers" are now realizing this, as they are turning "town meetings" into a version of Nuremberg rallies where only their backers are pre-vetted to attend.
I believe GOP "lawmakers" are now realizing this, as they are turning "town meetings" into a version of Nuremberg rallies where only their backers are pre-vetted to attend.
Trump has no idea what health insurance is; he is confusing it with those cheap Life insurance ads on FOX News (Whole life policies that build up over time?)
What a confused President!
What Trump has said about Health Insurance:
“Insurance is, you’re 20 years old, you just graduated from college, and you start paying $15 a month for the rest of your life and by the time you’re 70, and you really need it, you’re still paying the same amount and that’s really insurance,” (May, 2016).
And Trump also said "you’re 21 years old, you start working and you’re paying $12 a year for insurance, and by the time you’re 70, you get a nice plan.” (July , 2017).
Most 60 year olds are paying $800 each for a plan that is just OK.
Would someone at the White House please do a set of simple flashcards for this President or perhaps write with a Sharpie key clues on his arms?
All 0
What a confused President!
What Trump has said about Health Insurance:
“Insurance is, you’re 20 years old, you just graduated from college, and you start paying $15 a month for the rest of your life and by the time you’re 70, and you really need it, you’re still paying the same amount and that’s really insurance,” (May, 2016).
And Trump also said "you’re 21 years old, you start working and you’re paying $12 a year for insurance, and by the time you’re 70, you get a nice plan.” (July , 2017).
Most 60 year olds are paying $800 each for a plan that is just OK.
Would someone at the White House please do a set of simple flashcards for this President or perhaps write with a Sharpie key clues on his arms?
All 0
95
You are so right!
Please Maggie and other reporters: ask Trump about this at your next opportunity!
Please Maggie and other reporters: ask Trump about this at your next opportunity!
We haven't had a President so out of touch with the people since Bush I, who expressed his amazement when he learned of grocery store scanners. But so similar: Republican presidents who never experience the everyday world, because they are too wealthy to live in it. The 1% leading the 99%.
Ha should get out of Politics (of which he knows nothing) and get back to selling his real estate to the Russians.
58
To those whom support what healthcare was back in the Dark Ages before Obamacare. Ask your republican congressman or senator this one simple question? Why can't we have the gold plated healthcare plan that they have which is funded by our tax dollars. So if you are part of the crowd that believes we shouldn't pay for other's people's problems here is a case in point. Senator McCain a true American hero and former P.O.W. has been diagnosed with brain cancer. Will receive the best medical treatment possible at the Mayo Clinic, have access to around the clock care, and access to the best neurosurgeons in the world courtesy of the taxpayer's dime. That level of medical care would either wipe a family's savings or reach catastrophic caps on an ordinary health care plan or one be outright dropped. So if we can support him and his acute healthcare needs, why can't we support our fellow neighbor's healthcare needs. Again our health isn't static. We will get sick, be injured, or diagnosed with an rare cancer.
88
Yeah, and McCain would vote for the publican plan if he could. No hero to me
In the case of healthcare / health insurance Tump isn't the issue as much as 2 awful bills from the house and senate.
13
The Senate Republican "healthcare" bill is a disaster, and enough Republican senators understand that their voters are onto them and will punish them if they vote for it. The raw "political pressure" coming from Trump and Republican leadership will not trump the will of their voters. Trump and the Republican leadership are not bringing any pressure based on the merits of this bill, simply put, because there are no merits to this bill.
16
The problem for Republicans is they ran on the platform of repealing Obamacare for seven years, and the voters bought it because they didn't know it worked. I blame Democrats for this stunning failure of marketing.
But now that voters know the ACA and they like it, they're telling their representatives to keep it. It's a tough spot for the GOP right now.
But now that voters know the ACA and they like it, they're telling their representatives to keep it. It's a tough spot for the GOP right now.
24
It is so frustrating to watch the Democrats just sit by and watch all this unfold by just ranting against Trump. Where is the plan? Where are the issues? Where is the messaging? On this trajectory 2018 will be a disaster for the dems.
Its really hard to sell something you have absolutely zero understanding of.
33
Unless it's a real estate deal perhaps.
Why should they fear Trump? Does anyone fear a clown? Trump may be good for a chuckle or two...but that's about it. Who knows they might even call him Chuckles to his face.
18
Actually, all the members of the Americans Terrified by Clowns Association are frightened of them. I think in this particular case, everybody should be terrified of this one particular clown. He has nuclear codes.
I wish headlines would also point out from the CBO report: the cost of premiums will DOUBLE in ten years.
24
The latest CBO figures came out last night:
32 million MORE people would become uninsured over the next decade under the present plan to repeal ACA and replace it later, according to a cost estimate released Wednesday evening by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
The CBO also says that compared to the present, under the latest version of McConnellcare, an ADDITIONAL 17 million more people would become uninsured next year.
CBO also forecasts that by next year, average premiums would increase by about 25 percent.
32 million MORE people would become uninsured over the next decade under the present plan to repeal ACA and replace it later, according to a cost estimate released Wednesday evening by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
The CBO also says that compared to the present, under the latest version of McConnellcare, an ADDITIONAL 17 million more people would become uninsured next year.
CBO also forecasts that by next year, average premiums would increase by about 25 percent.
15
The tactic of bullying and threats worked for him when he was running a small private business. He has never had a board of directors or shareholders to contend with or answer to. The tantrums are only going to become more frequent, more outrageous further alienating the support in congress he desperately needs to get anything done one the legislative front. Expecting him to come around and play well with others is delusional, he never has and never will.
24
oh the sweet taste of the hubris, Republicans cannot repeal or replace Obamacare, after 7 years and endless votes to do so. Trapped between their constituent's needs (the more Red the state the more the citizen's need Obamacare) the nut bag tea party and his Orangeness. Repeal Obamacare and face the wrath of their residents. Do nothing and feel the wrath of the Tea Party. All while being criticized by their President who has done not one thing to help.
20
How is Trump going to sell a health care bill? He has experience selling simple things like condos.
His situation is made even more untenable because people can fact check him, unlike when you sell something that hasn't been built yet.
And, he is smart enough to understand either the issues or the bill.
Hopeless. Good.
His situation is made even more untenable because people can fact check him, unlike when you sell something that hasn't been built yet.
And, he is smart enough to understand either the issues or the bill.
Hopeless. Good.
4
trump is learning for the first time in his life is that there are people in this world that he cannot threaten, cheat, lie to or smother in legal action to get what he wants. How's that running the government like your business dealings working out?
26
"...McConnell’s motivation for holding a vote on the deeply unpopular bill is to foster fear."
McConnell is every bit as much a bully as Trump. Bring up a vote on healthcare to strike fear into his own Republican colleagues. Isn't that like "eating ones young". McConnell like Trump is losing much of his clout as Senate Majority Leader because of stunts like this. And they have a big lift in September with the budget and tax reform.
Also, something tells me that Susan Collins is ready to break with her party. They treat her with disrespect. She should have been in that meeting with those 13 men deciding how to approach the healthcare bill. She seems much too compassionate to be a Republican.
McConnell is every bit as much a bully as Trump. Bring up a vote on healthcare to strike fear into his own Republican colleagues. Isn't that like "eating ones young". McConnell like Trump is losing much of his clout as Senate Majority Leader because of stunts like this. And they have a big lift in September with the budget and tax reform.
Also, something tells me that Susan Collins is ready to break with her party. They treat her with disrespect. She should have been in that meeting with those 13 men deciding how to approach the healthcare bill. She seems much too compassionate to be a Republican.
26
That would be a biggie. If Republicans start jumping ship, there goes their majority. There goes Trump's protection against impeachment. Ms. Collins would be seen a savior.
Bi-partisan? Hearings? Hello...
9
I'd be enjoying his failures if a) he didn't have his appointees destroying the departments they've been appointed to lead and b) didn't have the "war card" left to play a la every other Republican president. Assuming war does not break out, in 3.5 years we will all collectively look around and see this Presidency as one yuge abyss of wasted of time and energy. In the meantime, China is eating our lunch.
17
Yup, busy with their Roads to Bridges initiative, the new Silk Road.
Here is Trump's problem. The best salespeople know their product inside and out, from top to bottom, its strengths and its shortcomings. And they know the same about their competitors products so they can knowledgeably address any question
Donald Trump knows as much about healthcare an egg knows about frying pan.
Donald Trump knows as much about healthcare an egg knows about frying pan.
19
Trump thinks that health insurance costs $12 a month or so. . .he has no idea that it differs from life insurance. This, from the Times interview yesterday. How can this continue? Trump is TOTALLY IGNORANT of what he's promoting.
This is insane.
This is insane.
24
If you have listened to President Trump for the last year (I know....it's been a heavy lift for most of us) you would have heard the following. "Everyone is going to be covered less expensively and with higher quality", "I am not going to touch Medicaid or Medicare", "Premiums will come down drastically", "Single payor might not be a bad idea...(Australia referenced)". The point is on any given day his stance or views on healthcare can and have moved up tp 180 degrees. There are no underlying baseline principals as to where he would take the country with healthcare or for that matter many other key agenda items. He is driven by 2 things. An obsession to to undo everything President Obama achieved and accomplished and looking like he is "winning". He is not a conservative, he is not a moderate, he is not a liberal. He just wakes up every day and "says stuff" which probably is not rooted in any belief or knowledge of the subject or for that matter what he said yesterday or last week. This canoe will be paddled in a circle by someone who doesn't have the slightest idea where he or the country should be headed. Wow!
74
***He is driven by 2 things. An obsession to to undo everything President Obama achieved and accomplished***
Along with Mitch McConnell, it is based in racism. I think we need to emphasize that.
Along with Mitch McConnell, it is based in racism. I think we need to emphasize that.
1
Excellent!!
Some Republicans correctly recognize that this bill is just a TAX CUT FOR FAT CATS masquerading as a healthcare bill, which will do terrible harm to their citizens.
Some Republicans are starting to recognize that Donnie the Dunce is a blowhard who has no idea what he is doing.
If there are three such Senators, this disaster of a bill will fail. We will see what a strategic genius Mitch McConnell really is based on how this vote ends.
It will be wonderful to get the remainder of the Republican Senators on the record as being in the pocket of the fat cats, so people can vote against them.
Some Republicans are starting to recognize that Donnie the Dunce is a blowhard who has no idea what he is doing.
If there are three such Senators, this disaster of a bill will fail. We will see what a strategic genius Mitch McConnell really is based on how this vote ends.
It will be wonderful to get the remainder of the Republican Senators on the record as being in the pocket of the fat cats, so people can vote against them.
20
ALL of the Republicans know this bill is a tax cut for fatcats - and pandering to their anti-Obama base, since they've been promising them for almost a decade to take down Obama. And they know it will do terrible harm to their citizens.
These guys aren't THAT dumb, it takes a moderately normal IQ to manage a campaign.
The question is far worse - how many of them have the ethics to say no.
These guys aren't THAT dumb, it takes a moderately normal IQ to manage a campaign.
The question is far worse - how many of them have the ethics to say no.
6
As a Canadian, I would appreciate some help in understanding the American system: Does the absence of Senator John McCain for at least several weeks mean that there are now only 51 Republicans, so if just 2 of them vote against this bill, it will fail?
Trump the Con Man strikes again. Wow.
Our Senators have been giving away the farm and it has finally occurred to them to ignore this buffoon and listen to their own constituents - about time.
Our Senators have been giving away the farm and it has finally occurred to them to ignore this buffoon and listen to their own constituents - about time.
22
It's called common sense, donald, which you cannot grasp.
Senators should not be intimidated; only their electorate can fire them!!
HA HA DONALD!!
Senators should not be intimidated; only their electorate can fire them!!
HA HA DONALD!!
11
Trump needs to get something done on health care quickly.
Too many people are recovering from Trumpitis, the delusional belief that The Donald's campaign promises were truthful.
Too many people are recovering from Trumpitis, the delusional belief that The Donald's campaign promises were truthful.
11
Trump's only objective is to dismantle everything Obama accomplished. This blind vengence will come back to him.
19
Agreed; his obsessive desire for damnatio memoriae with respect to former POTUS Obama and his policies/accomplishments, why? Can someone explain what that is about? Was it him being the butt of Obama's joke at the WH Correspondents dinner that year? What is it?
It's not a health bill -- it's a death bill. Get it right, NYT.
12
Trump has very little in the way of social skills. Like most Sociopaths, he has a glib ability to superficially relate. But his overriding needs for admination, domination and bullying do not play well, when he's trying to make deals with people who have their own independent sources of power.
Trump is used to being the boss, the crony or the power broker. He's impotent when faced with a situation where he's not in control or has nothing the other person needs from him.
The more Trump slides in polls, the more he appears to be a fool and a loser, the more it's clear that you cannot trust what he says or does, the less leverage he's got with Congress.
He's like a premature "lame duck." Only six months in.
Trump is used to being the boss, the crony or the power broker. He's impotent when faced with a situation where he's not in control or has nothing the other person needs from him.
The more Trump slides in polls, the more he appears to be a fool and a loser, the more it's clear that you cannot trust what he says or does, the less leverage he's got with Congress.
He's like a premature "lame duck." Only six months in.
15
Not just premature. He IS a lame duck.
2
Or how about just lame?
"Fear is perhaps the most powerful motivating force in politics, and fear of a powerful president is the surest lever to move a lawmaker from a “no” to a “yes” on a presidential priority." Mr. Trump wants to be seen as showing " ... no restraint when it comes to attacking anyone who crosses his path." (CNN) (Sessions, Comey, Mueller, ...) Rumor has it that Mr. Trump is practicing the Darth Vader Force Choke, but he's losing his grip.
6
Great, "behind the scene", piece. I wonder how many times these Republican Senators have thought to themselves: "This walking joke is the President and I'm just a Senator.". 10? 50? 100?...
9
"You don't scare me!" said a Senator on the condition of anonymity.
8
Mr. Trump has no understanding of any bill he supports. He just wants to list a bill passed as a win regardless of how devastating the consequences are to his base and the nation.
Mr. Trump has treated the Presidency just like his TV shows. All fluff and NO SUBSTANCE.
The key thing that Mr. Trump does not realize is the HE and his supporters are in their own bubble and divorced from reality.
Why should any rational Senator stick their neck out on an unpopular bill which Mr. Trump could turn around and denounce the next day with one tweet?
The world knows that Mr. Trump is a paper tiger with lots of growl BUT no bite. Mr. Putin and Mr. Xi manipulate Mr. Trump at their will and Mr. Trump is too ignorant and shallow to see their cons. Both Mr. Putin and Mr, Xi praise Mr. Trump to his face then turn right around and stab him in the back with their actions and dealings with their own people and other nations.
Unfortunately for the United States, Mr. Trump is now the laughing stock of the world who controls the nuclear button.
Mr. Trump has treated the Presidency just like his TV shows. All fluff and NO SUBSTANCE.
The key thing that Mr. Trump does not realize is the HE and his supporters are in their own bubble and divorced from reality.
Why should any rational Senator stick their neck out on an unpopular bill which Mr. Trump could turn around and denounce the next day with one tweet?
The world knows that Mr. Trump is a paper tiger with lots of growl BUT no bite. Mr. Putin and Mr. Xi manipulate Mr. Trump at their will and Mr. Trump is too ignorant and shallow to see their cons. Both Mr. Putin and Mr, Xi praise Mr. Trump to his face then turn right around and stab him in the back with their actions and dealings with their own people and other nations.
Unfortunately for the United States, Mr. Trump is now the laughing stock of the world who controls the nuclear button.
14
It is a surprise he could sell anything to anyone. Who would compromise their career for him? Anyone of consequence would be on a fence.
9
like the sad legacy of Ahab in moby dick, donald trump refuses to give in with his effort to kill obamacare. The presidents single minded obsession to eliminate
the affordable care act has blinded him to his own moral failing as a president.
He no longer can distinguish right from wrong, he just wants a legislative win. Kill the white whale at all costs so I can win, he might say. Like ahab, his greater evil will not prevail and will in the end destroy those he leads to
to the bitter end.
the affordable care act has blinded him to his own moral failing as a president.
He no longer can distinguish right from wrong, he just wants a legislative win. Kill the white whale at all costs so I can win, he might say. Like ahab, his greater evil will not prevail and will in the end destroy those he leads to
to the bitter end.
8
Senators are there for at least six years. They see presidents come and go and they've never seemed too impressed by any of them. Good or bad, they're a group of elitist, pampered house pets and Trump must be a private joke. McConnell has to be nice because Trump hired his wife, but the rest of them can just say, "Meh."
9
Eponyms: If the Affordable Care Act can be called "Obama Care", its repeal without replacement should be called "Trump Non-care"
10
If Putin`s intentions were to put this country under the worst imaginable Chief Executive, he has succeeded beyond measure. Congratulations, Vladimir, the KGB would have been proud or you.
9
It is very interesting and instructive to check out the news coverage from the "other side." Foxnews.com doesn't have a single article covering health care reform/repeal on its home page or the health page. A search comes up with video clips of talking heads. There is absolutely no real journalistic coverage there. And this is THE TOP policy item for the Republicans.
This tells you all you need to know. The Right doesn't want their constituents to know about the health care reform debacle or, more importantly, how many of them would lose coverage.
This tells you all you need to know. The Right doesn't want their constituents to know about the health care reform debacle or, more importantly, how many of them would lose coverage.
12
any of the variations of the republican "health care" plan show that in no way is it a true health care plan in reality. it is still a tax plan with millions of americans losing their current health care plans and it will greatly increase the costs while lowering the benefits of future independent plans, especially for those over 50. so now we have mcconnell putting this shameful excuse for a health care plan back onto the floor. i only hope that some of the moderate republicans still have some sense of decency and vote against and bury this horribly cruel plan.
7
"while Mr. Trump may have stunned the political world in 2016 by winning Wisconsin in the election, Mr. Johnson got 76,000 more votes in the state."
White House spokespeople will claim that this proves that there were 76,000 people voting illegally in Wisconsin!!! Chris Kobach is on the case!!!
White House spokespeople will claim that this proves that there were 76,000 people voting illegally in Wisconsin!!! Chris Kobach is on the case!!!
7
You know that 'healthcare' bill you've been pushing so hard (when you can break yourself away from waiting table for Putin)? You should read the fine print. It actually calls for your impeachment and the self-immolation of the GOP.
2
In order to get people to fear you, they've got to first respect you, and I doubt that many members of congress respect anything about Trump. He has yet to reveal any special talent as a manager or a leader.
7
We may be getting to the point where Trump's loutishness and incompetence will enable decent Republican officeholders to defy him without fear, the point at which his defenders will be few and muted.
At least I pray we are...
At least I pray we are...
10
If there were these "decent Republicans" surely we would have heard from them by now. I am afraid they just don't exist.
Can any Republican Senator still believe Trump on "health care" or anything else? Two days ago he was tweeting that Republicans should simply let the Affordable Care Act die and then suddenly he's back in the "healthcare" game. Not to mention his pretty open threat to Dean Heller, which any other Republican with a grain of sense should consider potentially a personal threat. And then of course there's his stunning rant against Jeff Sessions, Robert Mueller, James Comey, anyone who might have crossed him. Loyalty is a one-way street with this awful man.
Someone pointed out recently that of all Trump's close associates, the only one whom he hasn't turned on is Putin. I suppose that's because even Donald Trump is bright enough to know that Putin would destroy him.
Someone pointed out recently that of all Trump's close associates, the only one whom he hasn't turned on is Putin. I suppose that's because even Donald Trump is bright enough to know that Putin would destroy him.
7
The main philosophical differences within the GOP are only the numbers: how many millions of Americans is it acceptable to kill when we destroy health care?
They all agree that some MUST die.
They all agree that some MUST die.
9
This is just a tad off topic, but, here goes. I am finding myself warming to this idea of "Repeal and Replace." Perhaps we should start with a repeal and replace of the election of November, 2016 -- to see if such a plan can work ;-)
4
If you have to use fear, instead of respect, there is a problem with the bill. Good grief. Let the bill die. Go to work on solutions that the American public can actually agree with AND fulfill the promise of more people, less expensive. In spite of the optics, this doesn't HAVE to be done today.
4
The simple fact is the Koch Brothers and their ilk see no purpose on spending their money to keep unhealthy/elderly people alive.
Money is power and any resources spent on them reduces their power.
Money is power and any resources spent on them reduces their power.
4
Who cares? Establishment politicians like Democrats are almost never in favor of actual progressive reforms, we have to drag them to it. That’s not a problem, and “Communist” isn’t the troubling label it once was, even my hyper-conservative parents now understand the difference between European Socialism (the US is also Socialist, just not as much) and red-scare era Stalinist Communism. The two have nothing in common aside from an origin in Marxian thought. Let the establishment whine, what the public thinks is more important and what’s left of our democracy will eventually throw out the establishment bums who don’t change their course.
Donald Trump has a long record of supporting single pair systems unlike Hillary Clinton who chastise Bernie Sanders for even bringing it up.
Donald Trump has a long record of supporting single pair systems unlike Hillary Clinton who chastise Bernie Sanders for even bringing it up.
And how did that "dragging" work out in the 2016 election Max? Progressives dragged and dragged, and Donald Trump got elected. By the time he is through, he will have appointed another 2 -- for a total of 3 -- conservative justices to the Supreme Court. That is supposed to be one of the last lines of defense for the rights of the average American and the rights of the minority, but instead will be working against the progressive agenda for the next 30 years or more.
So say whatever you will about Clinton, but had she been elected there would have been no Gorsuch appointment and no fight over throwing 20+ million of people off of healthcare.
So say whatever you will about Clinton, but had she been elected there would have been no Gorsuch appointment and no fight over throwing 20+ million of people off of healthcare.
2
At this point, I feel as if we don't even have a president. Trump is so bent on replacing the ACA and destroying his predecessor's legacy it is like an obsession. Why can't he just "let it go" already? This combined with the endless supply of controversy surrounding this administration has caused the country to be at a standstill. We have lost our credibility in the world due to the lack of leadership.
5
Knowing how the "Republican?" Party functions tells us they will attack Obamacare through the tax bill and try to cut up Medicare and Medicaid that way. They will also (in true ISIS style) try to crush women by reducing them to chattel at the service of men. We must stand up for Rowe vs Wade and preserve our body privacy from these medieval old men in government. We must stand up for Medicare, PBS and
Internet freedom which that alt-ft party would use to cancel freedom of thought and the press.
Internet freedom which that alt-ft party would use to cancel freedom of thought and the press.
3
I wish somebody in Congress would simply mention offhand to trump, 'We're not your employees. The American people are YOUR employer. The House and Senate have the right and obligation to hold you accountable and to FIRE you if you don't measure up to the exalted position you floundered into by accident. '
4
Can anyone establish whether or not Donald Trump has ever READ the House or Senate healthcare bills he supports so loudly?
2
Clear Trump knows nothing about the bill, or healthcare. He has never mentioned one single provision, in his NYT interview he mentions $12/month premiums, his tweets call for a "beautiful, new bill". Who knew healthcare was hard?
1
Trump does not grasp the facts involved in the failure of the two proposed bills, he thinks that all he needs to do is demand that the Senators pass the bill and that is the entirety of what needs to be done to have what he wants. It just shows the weakness of the man's mind. If he had any intelligence approximating what is needed to do the job, he'd know that Republicans are fundamentally divided on the issue with positions which are mutually exclusive -- you cannot satisfy one side without totally rejecting the other side. Trump needs to resolve this before any bill can be drafted which can be passed. It's just one more set of circumstances which demand more thought that Trump can produce.
This analysis omitted the most obvious reasons (other than Trump's approval rating) why Trump isn't able to influence the direction on health care.
1) Over 80% of Americans oppose the Senate health care bill.
2) Many GOP governors oppose the Senate health care bill.
3) The Trump/McConnell supporters in the Senate are in the minority on health care. Enough GOP senators will vote based on the needs of their constituents over party on this one issue. It's not obvious that McConnell is even remotely close to having 50 votes.
1) Over 80% of Americans oppose the Senate health care bill.
2) Many GOP governors oppose the Senate health care bill.
3) The Trump/McConnell supporters in the Senate are in the minority on health care. Enough GOP senators will vote based on the needs of their constituents over party on this one issue. It's not obvious that McConnell is even remotely close to having 50 votes.
1
If 32 million more uninsured, doubling of premiums, and no payers willing to sell insurance in wide swaths of the country is a "great health care bill", Lord help us in Trump's vision to make America Great Again. If the House bill was mean (after the Rose Garden celebration), the Senate bill is diabolical. The sad truth is that the individual market was stabilizing until Trump created uncertainty. Threatening to defund the cost sharing subsidies for low income people and stop enforcement of the individual mandate are causing premium increases. Trump is responsible for deterioration of the market.
4
It would not hurt to cut out the Health Insurance Industry from the equation.
Perhaps an in-depth conference on a reasonable insurance plan with experts from the Mayo Clinic, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, University of Washington, Seattle, and even Yale University-might actually give a motivated congressman some pointers.
Perhaps an in-depth conference on a reasonable insurance plan with experts from the Mayo Clinic, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, University of Washington, Seattle, and even Yale University-might actually give a motivated congressman some pointers.
2
Moran, the Kansas Senator is the Real Tell, and the turning point. Even here in Kansas, the number one issue for voters is Healthcare for their Families. THIS is the winning issue, nationwide.
Medicare for ALL -2020- A Healthy America. Get to work for 2018, and VOTE like your life depends upon it. Because it DOES.
Medicare for ALL -2020- A Healthy America. Get to work for 2018, and VOTE like your life depends upon it. Because it DOES.
6
Ive not seen it reported in the NYT yet, but Trump is repeatedly underestimated what health insurance costs: like $12 a month.
1
Hopefully, we will see some movement on Health Care with open debate allowed.
The CBO estimates are somewhat specious because the majority of people making up the 15 to 22 million in the Senate and House bills are because without the Mandate, they predict this many will opt simply not to have insurance. These folks could buy insurance if they choose too. And the CBO shows the 29 million without insurance now, will continue to not have insurance.
I am hoping they opt to unbundle at least addition from the Health Care bill. Addiction is a social issue, not a medical one, and it is part of the reason the ACA is so expensive. Yes, it's a "drug," be it alcohol or heroin they are addicted to, but it's more a social issue than a medical one and resolving it via the Health Care bill is unfair to those folks that choose to not get addicted. Maybe have an out that a Doctor can certify "Yes, this person was under my care and was inadvertently, or unavoidably, addicted while under my care for another illness." If another bill addressing addiction is fostered, fine, but leave the costs out of the insurance pool.
I am also hoping they rework Medicaid as something is seriously wrong with the structure of Medicaid if half the babies in the US are born under it. It is bankrupting my state already (over 25% of our budget).
Let the bipartisan fun begin - the ACA has failed, so the Democrats do have a big stake in getting something through the process and signed.
The CBO estimates are somewhat specious because the majority of people making up the 15 to 22 million in the Senate and House bills are because without the Mandate, they predict this many will opt simply not to have insurance. These folks could buy insurance if they choose too. And the CBO shows the 29 million without insurance now, will continue to not have insurance.
I am hoping they opt to unbundle at least addition from the Health Care bill. Addiction is a social issue, not a medical one, and it is part of the reason the ACA is so expensive. Yes, it's a "drug," be it alcohol or heroin they are addicted to, but it's more a social issue than a medical one and resolving it via the Health Care bill is unfair to those folks that choose to not get addicted. Maybe have an out that a Doctor can certify "Yes, this person was under my care and was inadvertently, or unavoidably, addicted while under my care for another illness." If another bill addressing addiction is fostered, fine, but leave the costs out of the insurance pool.
I am also hoping they rework Medicaid as something is seriously wrong with the structure of Medicaid if half the babies in the US are born under it. It is bankrupting my state already (over 25% of our budget).
Let the bipartisan fun begin - the ACA has failed, so the Democrats do have a big stake in getting something through the process and signed.
When you try to sell a tax reduction and an elimination of Medicaid as a healthcare bill you might need to anticipate a problem. The real question is not why it doesn't have to votes to pass the Senate, but rather why it has any votes in the Senate at all. That such a travesty has any support is more than a little discouraging. One can only conclude that there are a significant number of brain dead Senators.
9
The members of the House and 1/3 of the members of the Senate have to worry about the election coming up next year. Trump doesn't have to worry about his next election until 2020. The Senators and members of the House have to contend with irate constituents sitting in their offices and jamming their phone lines with angry messages about the need for a good health care bill -- not any of the ones being proposed by the Republicans.
Instead of sitting down with Congress and constituents and trying to hammer out a good health care bill for the majority of Americans, Trump plays golf, hangs out with Putin and other world leaders, and rails against those who are investigating him and his family.
No bill will get passed this way and Trump doesn't care. It is that simple. And those who do care, Susan Collins, Rand Paul and a few others are so far apart on the bill that it would probably be impossible to agree on a bill if they all worked hard on it.
We have rarely had such an uninvolved President.
Instead of sitting down with Congress and constituents and trying to hammer out a good health care bill for the majority of Americans, Trump plays golf, hangs out with Putin and other world leaders, and rails against those who are investigating him and his family.
No bill will get passed this way and Trump doesn't care. It is that simple. And those who do care, Susan Collins, Rand Paul and a few others are so far apart on the bill that it would probably be impossible to agree on a bill if they all worked hard on it.
We have rarely had such an uninvolved President.
9
Pajaritomt- worthy comment until the end. "We have rarely had such an uninvolved president." NO we have NEVER had such a totally useless and ignorant president!
Huh. Could it be that these Repubs don't want to vote for it because IT'S A TERRIBLE SHAMEFUL UN-SERIOUS BILL?
But maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
But maybe I'm giving them too much credit.
63
No "maybe" about it.
1
Trump views other national leaders as his peers ... especially those who have a dictatorial bent. He views members of the congress and judiciary as subordinate to him and to his will. This works in the corporate world, but ignores basic Civics lessons on how our government works.
Secondly, it is NOT a Healthcare bill. It is more like a gunshot to the head to cure a headache.
Secondly, it is NOT a Healthcare bill. It is more like a gunshot to the head to cure a headache.
57
I don't understand why this is so important to Trump. His 180 degree turns on healthcare prove he doesn't really care about good, affordable healthcare for Americans. Why is he reviving the effort AGAIN?
Or maybe I do understand--Does he just want a win, regardless of substance? It would fit his personality--forget about the content, just take any win.
Or maybe I do understand--Does he just want a win, regardless of substance? It would fit his personality--forget about the content, just take any win.
31
See DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (301.7)
I wondered about that also. Why keep pushing on something he really doesn't care about one way or another? I don't believe it counts as a win if so many people are against it.
1
Trump doesn't have a real bill.
Trump's "plan" is to gut federal spending any way he can to pay for a YUGE tax cut for the richest people in America.
What's not to like about Trump's plan?
Trump's "plan" is to gut federal spending any way he can to pay for a YUGE tax cut for the richest people in America.
What's not to like about Trump's plan?
23
The Republican world so messed up it is difficult to ascribe logic or reason to any of it.
To me the one thing that stands out and the Times seems unaware or uninterested is that the Republican bills are un-actionable, they are junk, they could never be instituted in the real world.
The list no sane senator wants to be on is the one where McConnell's team lines up. Maybe Kentuckians will finally see that Mitch has taken the state and the nation for everything he can and dose'nt care a wit about the people who voted for him. He just keeps feeding them the wedge issue rhetoric and they vote. He will leave them to die in the streets if they keep voting him in. McConnell wants to kill every beneficial social institution we have.
NUYs? If you just listed all the negative consequences in detail that would result from the latest GOP bill beyond the tragedy of people loosing their insurance the whole thing would collapse today. The hospitals closing, the jobs lost, the hit to local economies, the hit to all the companies that support our US healthcare system, the list is endless.
And where is the reporting on where all these people and institutions stand? Not one of them supports the Republican bill, not even the insurance industry!
To me the one thing that stands out and the Times seems unaware or uninterested is that the Republican bills are un-actionable, they are junk, they could never be instituted in the real world.
The list no sane senator wants to be on is the one where McConnell's team lines up. Maybe Kentuckians will finally see that Mitch has taken the state and the nation for everything he can and dose'nt care a wit about the people who voted for him. He just keeps feeding them the wedge issue rhetoric and they vote. He will leave them to die in the streets if they keep voting him in. McConnell wants to kill every beneficial social institution we have.
NUYs? If you just listed all the negative consequences in detail that would result from the latest GOP bill beyond the tragedy of people loosing their insurance the whole thing would collapse today. The hospitals closing, the jobs lost, the hit to local economies, the hit to all the companies that support our US healthcare system, the list is endless.
And where is the reporting on where all these people and institutions stand? Not one of them supports the Republican bill, not even the insurance industry!
29
I wish someone could explain to me how voters in Kentucky and w. Virginia, etc., vote against their own interests. I really want to understand, not being snarky
2
I am amazed that so many articles seem to suggest that if President tRump was a strong leader, he could get senators to back the "healthcare" bill.
Maybe that's true, but that misses the point that the bill is a complete ripoff, fraud, and betrayalof the American people.
That's the real story.
Maybe that's true, but that misses the point that the bill is a complete ripoff, fraud, and betrayalof the American people.
That's the real story.
36
1. You shouldn't govern your own caucus by fear (nor our Country, for that matter); 2. Selling is hard--almost impossible--when the product is of poor quality, poorly researched, and speedily crafted; 3. Even CEOs, who run corporate monarchies, don't try to roll-out product packages without ample advice, forethought, and carefully crafted marketing plan.
22
I would like to see the costs for all of John McCain's recent medical treatments, which are paid in full by United States citizens, made public. Then I would like to see the costs a typical American would have to pay for the same treatments under the various categories of the Republican health care proposals.
146
Why? Everyone knows the difference if they have been paying any attention at all.
If McCain had no federal or personal health insurance, Medicare would cover most of his medical treatment costs, just as it does other Americans his age.
Fine, and let's also learn what sort of health insurance McCain has.
Under the ACA, members of Congress and their senior staff members are required to obtain their coverage on the Obamacare exchanges. However, since McCain is over 65, he could also be covered by Medicare Part B, and since he is a veteran, he could be on Tricare. Furthermore, he could be covered by a policy of his wife's.
Please, NYT, let us know!
Under the ACA, members of Congress and their senior staff members are required to obtain their coverage on the Obamacare exchanges. However, since McCain is over 65, he could also be covered by Medicare Part B, and since he is a veteran, he could be on Tricare. Furthermore, he could be covered by a policy of his wife's.
Please, NYT, let us know!
1
Trump Triage increases the number of Americans who will not have healthcare coverage from 22 to 32 million. Triage is a system to allocate limited medical resources and give priority to those with the greatest medical needs. The latest version of Trumpcare, repeal, will increase the number of the uninsured and reduce the number of Medicaid recipients. Taxes imposed by the Affordable Care Act will also be repealed, effectively a taxcut for the wealthy, who do not lack medical care. Unlike tax reform and infrastructure, healthcare is a critical issue for all Americans. Senators are not going to support Trumpcare, which conflicts with the interests of their constituents.
8
This could be a lesson to Mr. Trump's voter base. Everything you love about him, that makes him unconventional, has an effect exactly opposite to what you want. The president doesn't pass laws, Congress does -- Trump apparently didn't know that. This President lacks the power that he should have. He threw it all away with his clown act, his bluster, his lies, the irrational Tweets, 180 degree pivots, everything his base voted for because it would shake things up. He's become a man who couldn't sell water in a desert because of his lack of credibility. He thinks of himself as a master negotiator, but his clown act and complete ignorance of everything but real estate show that belief to be delusional also.
37
Why is real estate excluded? The man's companies have gone bankrupt six times on real estate deals. The only thing he is successful at is legally stealing. However, the contractors who have been stiffed would probably have preferred to have been paid.
1
Logic is dead.
Excellence is punished.
Mediocrity is rewarded.
And dependency is to be revered.
This is present day North America .
When crooks rob banks they go to prison.
When they rob the taxpayer they get re-elected.
Excellence is punished.
Mediocrity is rewarded.
And dependency is to be revered.
This is present day North America .
When crooks rob banks they go to prison.
When they rob the taxpayer they get re-elected.
In order to accomplish something in a complex environment, you have to have a clear vision of what you want and work consistently towards that goal. You must also be willing to compromise, you may have to take several small steps rather than one big one.
Trump has the attention span of a gnat and no idea of how to maintain a long term relationship where he cannot command obedience. As the article points out, his positions have been all over the map and his attempts at persuasion crude and heavy handed. He is his own worst enemy.
He is going to need these people for other things on his agenda, such as the budget. It is far too soon to be making enemies, particularly in the face of a united Democratic opposition. It is amateur hour at the White House.
Trump has the attention span of a gnat and no idea of how to maintain a long term relationship where he cannot command obedience. As the article points out, his positions have been all over the map and his attempts at persuasion crude and heavy handed. He is his own worst enemy.
He is going to need these people for other things on his agenda, such as the budget. It is far too soon to be making enemies, particularly in the face of a united Democratic opposition. It is amateur hour at the White House.
130
It was a miracle that he was able to close any real estate deals. They say coffee is for closers. He must be drinking from an empty coffee cup.
I suspect gnats are more focused. They fly, find food, eat, and reproduce - all without any drama. They understand their place in the world. Does the president?
Is it possible for their base to see and hear Obamacare / repeal / replace used in the same sentence frequently enough to confuse it with reality ?
4
Very interesting that folks in the know say that POTUS avoids private confrontation. That he is quite comfy making sarcastic quips, vitriolic speeches, and other large/small group boasts/veiled threats all the while avoiding a direct "man-to-man" difficult discussion speaks volumes.
25
His tentative queries about election meddling when he met face-to-face with Putin are a few pages in that increasingly large volume.
1
Trump will do whatever McConnell and Ryan want him to do otherwise they will let impeachment get some traction in Congress. And McConnell and Ryan will do whatever the Dark Money crowd want them to do.
Trump also has to do whatever Putin wants him to do. "The destruction of the administrative state" serves all his masters.
Trump also has to do whatever Putin wants him to do. "The destruction of the administrative state" serves all his masters.
19
Pretty simple on what the Trump agenda is - Overturn all of Obama's policies and achievements at all costs. Why? Because its personal with Trump who was so humiliated (made fun of) by Obama during the Correspondent's Dinner in D.C. a few years ago. Thinks about it! Look at all of his executive orders, the SC nomination, deregulation, etc. Trump has no real agenda of his own other than simply reversing all of what Obama had done during his presidency. Trump has no real meaningful replacement for Obamacare that will be good for ALL Americans, other than to simply gut it because it is associated with Obama. This is what we now have as the President of the U.S.A. (USA! USA!)
31
It took Donald Trump to gain some popularity for the ACA ("Obamacare"). Quite an accomplishment.
For "American Health Care" Trump's done just the opposite: make people realize that the Republicans have actually developed a Relief for the Rich Act. Apparently you can't sell a pig in a poke.
For "American Health Care" Trump's done just the opposite: make people realize that the Republicans have actually developed a Relief for the Rich Act. Apparently you can't sell a pig in a poke.
12
Congressional Republicans may be clueless regarding health care policy, but they are not stupid when it comes to political reality. They obviously are aware of Trump's loony tweets and they know he is not popular with voters. His poll numbers are slipping after only six months in office. Many have to run for reelection next year and they know they better keep their distance from a failing president if they want to remain in office.
49
One would hope, but my Senator, Bob Corker, just came out in favor of repeal without replace. Sigh.
Fascinating to see Trump flail about impotently, trying vainly to actually accomplish something, anything, other than signing a lot of fluffy executive orders. Senators do not fear him because they get to see at close range the net that closes a little more tightly every day. What we have here is the first president that is a lame-duck 6 months into his pitiful administration.
6
I know there are a million more important things to investigate, but, seriously, coordinating with a PAC is illegal, even if Trump is president, and he knows it, he accused Democrats of doing it
2
Dean Heller not only has a popular governor behind him, but he represents a state known for cussed independence (the cowboys) and real intimidation (organized crime). Trump can't scare him.
8
Forget about inspiring little fear in senators. The real story is three Republican women senators, out of only five, put a stop to the repeal and replace later bandwagon after being leftout of any way to contribute to McConnell's gang of 13 who devised it. McConnells playing a power game, as he was with the Garland nomination, these women aren't playing. They are being representative of the people in their states. And the rest of us, like in Colorado where we are stuck with toadying Cory Gardner, cheer them on!
22
President Trump likes to attach epithets to his opponents' names. "Crooked" Hillary, "lyin'" Ted, "Little" Marco. Well, now we have one for him. "Weak" Donald. Like most bullies, he's a coward underneath.
19
Although I don't agree with many Republican policies, the senator must have more integrity, capacity for intellectual thought and political experience than the current president. I hope they do not allow themselves to be intimidated by this bully and do what is right by their constituents. It sounds like maybe they are starting to do this.
6
Watching the lunch yesterday, I realized that Trump only knows how to play the role of big boss man, but it doesn't fit or work here. To Congress, the President isn't boss; he's just a co-worker. They both answer directly to the same voters.
18
"Mr. McConnell’s motivation for holding a vote on the deeply unpopular bill is to foster fear." This is what bullies do, foster fear. If he wants to terrorize the senators by making them go on the record, they should refuse. If they attend the vote and simply abstain (allowing the more principled women to vote no) they are not on the record for or against. They can allow themselves this luxury given that they know the bill is going to lose anyway. That way they can rob the Senate Majority leader of his cudgel and still credibly claim they did not go against the will of their constituents. That way they can turn a "lose-lose" into a "not lose-save face."
5
I was actually excited when they were going to try to "repeal and replace" in one fell swoop as the disastrous effects would be immediately felt by their base of Republican voters; effectively showing them the "blame-stick" before throwing it (which they absolutely need).
This vote though (repeal and delay), was/is my worst fear from the start of this, because it is literally the best case scenario for Republicans. They get to say they repealed the main source of the muttering of Obama/"he-who-must-not-be-praised" (certainly to include more rose garden, "Mission Accomplished", old white guy clapping sessions), without actually having to do anything. All the while, the healthcare industry keeps operating, giving them the potential to kick the can of fixing healthcare in the US (which they obviously haven't the faintest clue how to do), until after the next elections.
They'll get to run on a platform of: "If you don't want another form of Obamacare, vote more Republicans into office so that we can start in on fixing healthcare in 2019/2020!" This is the worst option for most Americans because, again, their supporters will buy it. They won't associate the ensuing dumpster fire with the Republicans. I can only hope that straight repeal is just too detrimental to ignore.
This vote though (repeal and delay), was/is my worst fear from the start of this, because it is literally the best case scenario for Republicans. They get to say they repealed the main source of the muttering of Obama/"he-who-must-not-be-praised" (certainly to include more rose garden, "Mission Accomplished", old white guy clapping sessions), without actually having to do anything. All the while, the healthcare industry keeps operating, giving them the potential to kick the can of fixing healthcare in the US (which they obviously haven't the faintest clue how to do), until after the next elections.
They'll get to run on a platform of: "If you don't want another form of Obamacare, vote more Republicans into office so that we can start in on fixing healthcare in 2019/2020!" This is the worst option for most Americans because, again, their supporters will buy it. They won't associate the ensuing dumpster fire with the Republicans. I can only hope that straight repeal is just too detrimental to ignore.
9
I can't believe they are still trying to do this. How many people do they want to inflict pain on? Have they no compassion? And our president just plain doesn't know what he is doing. End this charade!!!
5
The Apprentice is a laughingstock, probably, behind closed doors. No respect means no leadership and that is the main issue for Congress. We need a President with vision and goals to keep Congress in line.
The Apprentice has been good for teaching us how important each branch of government is in day to day operations on their own and together. Thank you for this history lesson. I will hereafter appreciate all the Federal branches equally for the brilliance of their design by our Founding Fathers.
The Apprentice has been good for teaching us how important each branch of government is in day to day operations on their own and together. Thank you for this history lesson. I will hereafter appreciate all the Federal branches equally for the brilliance of their design by our Founding Fathers.
4
Senators who oppose repealing and replacing Obamacare do so knowing that Obamacare is doomed. The Obama administration kept insurance providers in the market by transferring money from the Treasury to cover their losses. But a federal court has ruled this transfer of funds is unconstitutional. District Court Judge Rosemary Collyer ruled that the Constitution says "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” She said “Paying [those] reimbursements without an appropriation thus violates the Constitution. Congress is the only source for such an appropriation, and no public money can be spent without one." Republicans asked for and were granted an abeyance to give them time to repeal and replace Obamacare, but if their efforts prove unsuccessful, Judge Collyer’s ruling will go into effect, and the Obamacare market will collapse. The senators who oppose repeal and replace will be responsible for the turmoil that ensues.
The Con Don is a crook. A mafia-model crook.
Hopefully, some of these men and women at the lunch have found their social conscience and weighed the consequences of getting involved with the International Mafia who has tried to take over OUR government to destroy democracy, just as they are doing around the world.
Are they Americans or money-power grubbers? Did they agree to protect OUR United States Constitution with their fingers crossed behind their backs like children? Do they actually think they would prefer living in a dictatorship? All mafia members have to do is slip up once and they're dead.
Hopefully these men and women will find their honor in the deep, dark hours of the night and stand for social and economic justice in America. Hopefully they will not help launch WW3 to keep a few crooks in power.
Hopefully, some of these men and women at the lunch have found their social conscience and weighed the consequences of getting involved with the International Mafia who has tried to take over OUR government to destroy democracy, just as they are doing around the world.
Are they Americans or money-power grubbers? Did they agree to protect OUR United States Constitution with their fingers crossed behind their backs like children? Do they actually think they would prefer living in a dictatorship? All mafia members have to do is slip up once and they're dead.
Hopefully these men and women will find their honor in the deep, dark hours of the night and stand for social and economic justice in America. Hopefully they will not help launch WW3 to keep a few crooks in power.
6
It still baffles me why this was the first priority out of the gate and not infrastructure? It seems like that would've dovetailed nicely with the inaugural address as well as the message of "jobs, jobs, jobs" that so many Trump voters bought and still hunger to see in their communities. He could've slapped his name on many active projects and done an endless number of photo-ops and appearances at work sites, trumpeting the employment he's created. Instead he got involved in a policy area that he plainly doesn't care about on any significant level. If it wasn't called Obamacare, would he have the same passion for repeal?
89
"It still baffles me why this was the first priority out of the gate and not infrastructure?"
"Must erase the Black Dude!"
"Must erase the Black Dude!"
It's my understanding that they had to tackle "healthcare" before moving on to tax "reform".
I just want to thank the Republicans and Trump for finally vindicating Obama and ACA. It's deeply flawed, our insurance premiums and deductibles are high, we get no subsidies, and the doctors in the network are not the best. But prior to ACA my husband and I could not even afford insurance, despite being young, healthy, and having no preexisting conditions. We feared any accident or illness would bankrupt us. And the flaws could be fixed with bipartisan negotiations. Perhaps some legislation for negotiating drug prices like every other country. Or a period for phasing out insurance companies, because what do they do besides skim money off the top and deny treatments to turn a profit.
Trump promised all of us, even those who didn't vote for him, to Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something "terrific" that is "so much better, so much better, so much better." and save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security without cutting benefits.
Trump proves yet again that a promise is a comfort to a fool, especially if it's coming from someone running for a political office, who is also a serial liar and and changes positions in a NY minute.
Trump promised all of us, even those who didn't vote for him, to Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something "terrific" that is "so much better, so much better, so much better." and save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security without cutting benefits.
Trump proves yet again that a promise is a comfort to a fool, especially if it's coming from someone running for a political office, who is also a serial liar and and changes positions in a NY minute.
77
President Trump has been all over the map when it comes to his stance on how his own party should proceed on dismantling the Affordable Care Act. At various times, he's insisted that they must have a replacement plan ready when they repeal the A.C.A., or that they should just go ahead and repeal it and at some varying future date devise a replacement, or that they just simply let it collapse and put the blame for the resulting assured chaos on the Democrats. As the Times notes, he has publicly advocated four different positions in the past three days!
We expect a president to attempt to master the important aspects of critical policies and to act as the key catalyst for achieving a difficult but worthy compromise. When it comes to reforming healthcare, Trump has demonstrated none of these leadership skills. Instead his performance reminds one of a medicine show huckster who couldn't care less about the real efficacy of his great "miracle cures" but only that the stuff sells.
We expect a president to attempt to master the important aspects of critical policies and to act as the key catalyst for achieving a difficult but worthy compromise. When it comes to reforming healthcare, Trump has demonstrated none of these leadership skills. Instead his performance reminds one of a medicine show huckster who couldn't care less about the real efficacy of his great "miracle cures" but only that the stuff sells.
189
He doesn't care about health care or any of that stuff that bores him. He just wants a "win".
6
Yes, huckster is the right term for Trump and his offerings of better health insurance for all! I believe Trump's problem is not that he doesn't know which possible program is better, but rather he is either too lazy to dig deeply into health care policy, or he isn't smart enough to do it. Both are troubling to this retired ICU nurse who has a better handle on policy than the president. I, like many Americans are fighting for the right to basic health care at a reasonable price, because we have to. We are not the privileged who can buy any health care either out right or as needed because we have money to spare—to buy an airplane, or a 2nd or 3rd house. We must know and understand what is at stake here, which clearly the president, doesn't.
3
Again it was the Clintons at the center of killing single payer for this country .democrats are just as beholden to the masses of money from big Pharma and for profit medical care . Clinton went after Sanders when he was talking about single payer as if single player hasn’t been the dream of the Democratic Party for decades .Just like in California it was the Democrats who killed single payer in California .
1
Wrong
3
Oh, ok. So the Republican "plan" is humanitarian and altruistic?
1
The Clintons did not single-handedly kill single payer and this is a false equivalency. Democrats are not beholden however to the mass injection of funds by far-right wing anti-tax, anti-government ideologues like the Koch Brothers. The insurance industry itself has not been supportive of this repeal effort.
3
No way Trump is "too nice" for private confrontations - he is too cowardly as well as too ignorant for cogent, persuasive arguments.
47
Typical behavior of a school yard bully.
public breast beating - but in private, sniveling, groveling weak-kneed & spineless - Why? because there is no audience at arms length distance to cheer CCN bashing and "get 'em outta here" jingoistic name calling. Hand-to-hand combat is not Trumps strong suit - it requires verbals skills that are clearly beyond all the beautiful words he has. Obama was no major flesh presser, but he had the verbal skills to craft well thought out ideas and positions. We are in trouble as a country as the Presidency has always been a focal point of our nation. Without a steady hand at the tiller, all sorts of things start to happen as things start falling off the rails. Hold on.
public breast beating - but in private, sniveling, groveling weak-kneed & spineless - Why? because there is no audience at arms length distance to cheer CCN bashing and "get 'em outta here" jingoistic name calling. Hand-to-hand combat is not Trumps strong suit - it requires verbals skills that are clearly beyond all the beautiful words he has. Obama was no major flesh presser, but he had the verbal skills to craft well thought out ideas and positions. We are in trouble as a country as the Presidency has always been a focal point of our nation. Without a steady hand at the tiller, all sorts of things start to happen as things start falling off the rails. Hold on.
15
Maybe Trump's next refi should be tied to passing a quiz on healthcare. It is becoming stunningly clear that he has no idea what health insurance is or how it works. You can bet that he has never personally filled out a claim form in his life and wouldn't have a clue what to do he were to be turned down entirely. Whining doesn't work. Of course I don't expect a German bank or Azerbaijani syndicators to give a (whatever) about us...
21
There is a difference between speaking at the bully pulpit and being an irrational, unhinged bully. The president has been an outright bully for too long (oh, the irony of the First Lady coming out against online bullying). Some senators and governors have decided to care about the people they represent rather than cower at the ire of the president. The Republican repeal-and-replace is itself a form of bullying, instituting fear in those who need health care and are not in the privileged position of the members of Congress.
20
Time for the GOP & trump best billionaire business minds to present a cross analysis of the best health care systems internationally.
They have had 7+ years to do their research.
They have had 7+ years to do their research.
9
I have viewed Trump's presidential run as thumbing his nose at President Obama and declaring "I can do anything you can do!". Trump should have been careful for what he wished; he now understands what it feels like when GOP Senators obstruct your agenda.
18
Just a flavor of the scene: They pull up a bus with darkened windows to the US Capitol building and open the door so Republican Senators or Representatives can file on to get to the White House to meet up with 45. Protestors chant, "Shame, shame, shame." A week or so ago, the bus pulled away very quickly but reappeared with the door now facing away from the protesters. We thought that was funny and had another chant, "You can turn and you can hide, but we can see your greedy side."
How they can be sure where that bus is taking them? We should offer sanctuary to any senator or representative with a conscience.
How they can be sure where that bus is taking them? We should offer sanctuary to any senator or representative with a conscience.
14
What has sunk Trumpcare is that it is a nothingburger. Trump has repeatedly demonstrated that he has no plan and doesn't know how the healthcare system works. He just wants a "win". Just anything to sign. He doesn't care what is in the bill. He long ago abandoned his campaign promises of what Trumpcare would look like. His words mean nothing and as a result he's discovering it's difficult to sell a nothingburger.
18
First off, Trump has taken the oxymoronic nature of "campaign promises" to previously unscaled heights.
Second, Trump has been selling the chimera of "nothingburgers" all his life. No change here.
Third, "his words mean nothing" -- to which we can add "I stand by nothing" and "I won't own it."
The epitome, unfortunately, of the so-called Republican Party, the party of "personal responsibility." Until the invasion of Iraq.
Second, Trump has been selling the chimera of "nothingburgers" all his life. No change here.
Third, "his words mean nothing" -- to which we can add "I stand by nothing" and "I won't own it."
The epitome, unfortunately, of the so-called Republican Party, the party of "personal responsibility." Until the invasion of Iraq.
1
Trump, desperate for exculpation from a disastrous legislative failure, doesn't know when to stop digging the hole deeper.
His legislative direction now is for the Senate to stay in session and create via successive amendments introduced on the floor of the Senate a law to make one sixth of our economy function! Really?
His legislative direction now is for the Senate to stay in session and create via successive amendments introduced on the floor of the Senate a law to make one sixth of our economy function! Really?
15
One fifth.
No big deal either way, but CMS projects national health expenses will not be 20% of economy until 2025
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2017/02/16/spending-growth
https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2017/02/16/spending-growth
Someone, anyone should put a gag on the Liar in Chief.
Why do we always have to look, listen to the Grifter?
Even if we do not want to...
Why do we always have to look, listen to the Grifter?
Even if we do not want to...
20
What IS Trump's 'political will'? He's bragged that everyone would get insurance, then that everything should just fail, then everyone should vote for the fix, then vote for repeal and fix 'later.' So just what is it that he wants, besides a 'win'? And what power does the blowhard have at this point? An army of nasty trolls making online snears? Russian mobsters? (well, that last one could be scary - but directing violence against opponents and unwilling followers is pretty easily traced. And even his mobster lawyer might object.)
12
A potentate unable to exercise power? I believe the word for that is impotent.
28
I certainly wish Trump had been asked in the NY Times interview whether he thought the proposed health bill, under which 30 million people would lose insurance, was the kind of "better" insurance he promised on the campaign trail, whether he thought this was good for America, and whether he had any qualms about taking away health insurance from so many people.
44
I would also ask him, if this bill is so good, why the legislators have an exemption.
3
It might be useful for The Donald to familiarize himself with the Republican bill instead of pushing it simply because he's obsessed with the idea of overturning his popularly-elected predecessor's legacy. Some of these congressfolks are actually concerned that millions of their constituents would end up losing their medical coverage if the measure were to pass. Trump, who promised health care for all with low low premiums, obviously couldn't care less what this or any other version of the bill entails. He's just "waiting with (his) pen" to sign anything they pass regardless of how far it diverges from his own promises. No wonder he inspires such little fear: he has no principles, no convictions, no humanity.
75
Senators not being afraid of Trump is the reason they are voting against his ignorant and harmful ideas? I guess doing what's best for people doesn't even come up any more.
40
Mitch "turtle" McConnell stated in an interview that what is most important to him is his party. That his priority is winning for his party. He didn't mention people once.
3
As for Mitch "turtle" McConnell: When you live under a rock you do not even have an idea WHAT people are. Everything is dark, you are dark, your thoughts are dark...and your heart (if one even exists) is especially dark. He is a creature that runs and hides if exposed to sunlight. Sunlight=TRUTH, DECENCY, MORALITY, COMPASSION, INTEGRITY, GOODNESS.
Trump is not "struggling" to do anything except defend himself against personal attacks and to embarrass and lie about government employees who place loyalty to their country over personal loyalty to Trump (who never returns that particular favor). "Leadership" is not what we're getting from this president; we are witnessing a huge, embarrassing train wreck on all channels, 24/7. The only suspense left it who Trump will blame next for his failure to establish a coherent policy and carry through on campaign promises that were pipe dreams.
39
Republicans are a party of sycophants without a leader, which makes it nigh impossible to get anything significant accomplished good or bad.
13
It's not so important that you count the beans; what's important is why these Republican Senators are opposed to the repeal legislation.
6
Until we as a nation are willing to elect people to congress that have the chutzpah to stand up to private insurance companies, big pharma, and a legal system that pays lawyers first healthcare in the US will continue its death spiral.
Does anyone among us believe that universal healthcare, a wonderful solution in the World's developed nations, will not simply become another for-profit cash cow for insurers and big pharma at the expense of the American Treasury and The People?
The next military industrial complex is universal healthcare UNLESS we remove all current congress people - from either party - and elect people with the mandate to stand up to this fast growing economic power base.
(let me dream, I know what will actually happen)
Does anyone among us believe that universal healthcare, a wonderful solution in the World's developed nations, will not simply become another for-profit cash cow for insurers and big pharma at the expense of the American Treasury and The People?
The next military industrial complex is universal healthcare UNLESS we remove all current congress people - from either party - and elect people with the mandate to stand up to this fast growing economic power base.
(let me dream, I know what will actually happen)
1
Be aware that we don't have universal healthcare, we only have universal health insurance.
1
If millions of people cannot afford health insurance, we don't have universal health insurance. We have no universal health insurance, and certainly no universal health care...We have universal deceit, greed, cruelty, and amorality in our government, which is the reason why we do not have the kind of universal health care as is enjoyed by all other civilized nations.
3
"And for all his public bluster, he despises private confrontation. He might actually be a little too nice, one top Republican Senate aide said with a laugh this week."
A public bully and a private wimp.....with zero mastery of public policy, zero knowledge of government, and zero respect for the Constitution, the law and basic ethics.
Another Republican Zero-In-Chief.
Heckuva job, Grand Old Phonies.
A public bully and a private wimp.....with zero mastery of public policy, zero knowledge of government, and zero respect for the Constitution, the law and basic ethics.
Another Republican Zero-In-Chief.
Heckuva job, Grand Old Phonies.
235
Trump is ignorant on almost all topics except money-laundering and PR. So in a one-on-one with someone who actually knows a topic, he can't make any argument effectively. Very different at a podium with a sea of worshipful faces and no one to talk back.
4
Yes, that' what millions of Americans voted for and millions still support. In school we had to write essays titled 'What America Means to Me'.
The more I watch Trump’s tactics it becomes obvious to me that he is following his own real estate business’s playbook. Loud and self-confident speeches laced with threats can be effective in boardrooms but these are US senators, not his bankers. And there’s 100 of them and only one one of him, a president under investigation with extremely low approval ratings.
32
Holy cow! The separation of powers may actually be working? Yeah, well, we'll see. It's difficult to maintain faith in our institutions under contemporary conditions. The responsibility for those conditions, of course, lie very heavily on the shoulders of Mitch McConnell.
7
This is the most elucidating article about what these people value most. It's not their country, it's not all the citizens of the states they represent, it's only about getting re-elected. But it's always been that way. Mark Twain observed in the 19th Century that "....there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.” Their stern looks, $100 haircuts, bespoke suits, and sophistic oratory don't change that.
3
Mark Twain lived in the 20th Century.
1
MArk Twain lived in both centuries. Both of you are half right.
4
Unfortunately we live in a time when a college degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma. The aforementioned quote is from Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar in Following the Equator (1897).
You're both wrong, and I'm right!
You're both wrong, and I'm right!
1
I'm glad to see that some senators and congressmen are focusing on policy and doing what is right for their constituents. In other words, their jobs. Others seem to want to keep their disdain, dismay or even ridicule private for now, because they hold out hope to get a legislative agenda passed and signed.
This line from the article was intriguing: "A Republican senator, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he wanted to preserve his relationship with Mr. Trump, put it more bluntly. The president, he said, scares no one in the Senate, not even the pages." So in private, they think he's a joke? Where is leadership these days?
This line from the article was intriguing: "A Republican senator, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he wanted to preserve his relationship with Mr. Trump, put it more bluntly. The president, he said, scares no one in the Senate, not even the pages." So in private, they think he's a joke? Where is leadership these days?
11
I understand there are many Republican members of Congress whose districts continue to support Trump, despite everything we now know about him and his crime family. It is time for these Republican members of Congress to understand and address the underlying reasons why their constituents like Trump. Are there ways to validate and address their constituents' concerns without lending cover to Trump, who continues to endanger and bring shame upon all of us?
7
If GOP Senators wanted to show their displeasure and disdain for Trump, why didn't they walk out of his luncheon in mass? What better way to demonstrate that they have no respect, or fear, of a President who respects no one and shows contempt for reason and the rule of law.
24
That's not their style. But I betcha nobody has cancelled any vacation plans. And I think Trump's flip-flopping on this issue is starting to look like Amendment 25 material.
2
Republican has become a new synonym for toady.
1
What a dilemma! Should a Republican senator vote based on threats from wealthy donors (Trump's backers) or based on the overwhelming sentiments of their state's voters? In this case the voters of the red states have to a large measure woken up to the consequences of withdrawal of the ACA's benefits. They may actually vote based on their own interests. So it's a sea change for Republicans, who are more used to following the demands of their invested oligarchs.
10
Fear of what? Losing your job. Give me a break. Anyone who campaigned and won a national election has so much opportunity in the job market after that career is over. It simply can't be for financial reasons.
Then maybe it's the prestige they don't want to lose, the power that goes along with it, but it seems to me the people with the real power are the ones that stand by their convictions because they represent the people who voted for them. Although I am not from Maine I admire Senator Collins' level head. And the seating chart that Trump devised so Heller could sit right next to him yesterday absurd. When Trump half joked about Heller still wanting his job he should of interrupted Trump right then and there and put him in his place.
Then maybe it's the prestige they don't want to lose, the power that goes along with it, but it seems to me the people with the real power are the ones that stand by their convictions because they represent the people who voted for them. Although I am not from Maine I admire Senator Collins' level head. And the seating chart that Trump devised so Heller could sit right next to him yesterday absurd. When Trump half joked about Heller still wanting his job he should of interrupted Trump right then and there and put him in his place.
10
Republican senators and congressmen should be wary of buying anything from this incompetent president. Certainly not this very flawed health care bill. Anyone up for re-election in 2018 and 2020 should look very carefully at how this very flawed law will affect his chance of re-election. Donald J. Trump will certainly not get re-elected in 2020 even if he can hold onto the 30% who are too ignorant to realize how bad Trump's presidency is for the whole country, not to mention how much most of his "base" will suffer under a Trump administration.
4
Trump is on record as opposed to cutting Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. Between the health care bill and his budget resolution, huge cuts are proposed to all three.
If Senate Republicans are serious about dealing with Obamacare, strip all the cuts to Medicaid funding from the bill. The presence of those cuts makes the bill a tax cut funded on the backs of Medicaid recipients. Is it any wonder that public approval for the bill is less than 20%?
Meanwhile, McConnell's tactic of forcing a vote to put opponents on record should draw a response of "present" from all Republicans except those who are "yes" votes. There is strength in numbers, and it would put McConnell on notice that his leadership position is tenuous.
Better still, it's time for 3-4 Republican senators to declare their party affiliation to be Constitutional Independents who will caucus with Democrats for as long as it takes to produce a law providing universal health care that also drives down by at least a few percentage points the share of U.S. GDP spent on health. We spend far too much for mediocre outcomes relative to other developed countries and still have 25+ million people without insurance.
If Senate Republicans are serious about dealing with Obamacare, strip all the cuts to Medicaid funding from the bill. The presence of those cuts makes the bill a tax cut funded on the backs of Medicaid recipients. Is it any wonder that public approval for the bill is less than 20%?
Meanwhile, McConnell's tactic of forcing a vote to put opponents on record should draw a response of "present" from all Republicans except those who are "yes" votes. There is strength in numbers, and it would put McConnell on notice that his leadership position is tenuous.
Better still, it's time for 3-4 Republican senators to declare their party affiliation to be Constitutional Independents who will caucus with Democrats for as long as it takes to produce a law providing universal health care that also drives down by at least a few percentage points the share of U.S. GDP spent on health. We spend far too much for mediocre outcomes relative to other developed countries and still have 25+ million people without insurance.
151
While I like the idea of "Constitutional Independents," I doubt that they would be welcomed back with open arms afterwards. The Republicans operate more like a street gang than like a political party, and once they lay down their colors, they are out. I guess they could kill a Democrat to be taken back in, but we haven't become quite that lawless. Yet.
1
Well, Trump is a bully for sure. No real news there. He seems a person that needs to be at the center of the news, and he is. But, it's all bad news. It's about his need to be part of Putin's criminal oligarchy.
He is only working the healthcare issue to distract Americans from his effort to payback Putin and his cyber hackers for getting him elected.
If we follow the money, we will likely find Trump working the Russian criminal oligarchs to fund his business interests.
He's a very dangerous man who is going to get a lot of Americans killed.
Just think about Kushner working to create a back channel with Russian criminals.
He is only working the healthcare issue to distract Americans from his effort to payback Putin and his cyber hackers for getting him elected.
If we follow the money, we will likely find Trump working the Russian criminal oligarchs to fund his business interests.
He's a very dangerous man who is going to get a lot of Americans killed.
Just think about Kushner working to create a back channel with Russian criminals.
24
He hardly cared about health care. Trump now can say he tried his best but Senators failed him. He, however, does appear to sincerely dislike Obama--- and destroying his signature program is a true goal. On paper, it appears he will have the votes for that.
5
Threats work well when he is the boss holding your purse strings. However, Mr. Trump has failed to show leadership, and proves to be nothing more of a mob type boss. The GOP Senate and Congress have reluctantly found out they backed the Biggest Loser, one that lies excessively, demands loyalty yet gives none, one that has no desire to govern, one that has no clue as to the bills he signs.
Well we are all stuck with this horrid creature for another 3.5 years unless the GOP majority decides to take action, or the FBI and wheels of Justice intervene.
Well we are all stuck with this horrid creature for another 3.5 years unless the GOP majority decides to take action, or the FBI and wheels of Justice intervene.
25
One characteristic of a real leader is the ability to influence those over whom you have no direct control.
Trump is no leader.
Trump is no leader.
53
Republicans have been stoking a culture of fear since the civil rights era (if not longer) to advance their agenda. When we can see past the fear and label our real enemies -- hate and inequality -- we will move towards Obama's oft quoted Lincoln ideal: a more perfect union.
The Republican ideology is been morally odious. Trump is the symptom, not the sickness.
The Republican ideology is been morally odious. Trump is the symptom, not the sickness.
92
Congressional members really need to listen to, hear, and represent the feelings of their constituents. Health care affects every American. I don't think that means being guided by an erratic president.
49
Repeal and replacement bills for the Affordable Health Care Act seem to have the 'evil life' of Zombies... and they are even less welcome and scarier than horror fiction. It is way past time when Republicans should lurch away from these decaying bodies and embrace new life and affordable health care for all.
7
Why is POTUS bullying Republican senators to pass their cruel bill, a bill that is so much less than what he promised us. If it's only to get a "win", he is using his base and the rest of us as pawns. That should frighten every single American citizen.
90
The Obama Presidency suffered from the same problem. Nobody was afraid of him. He didn't know how to apply pressure, so his opponents ran free. He was simply too academic.
2
And yet was cleanly elected twice. Must have been doing something right.
7
Hooey. Obama was respected by at least half of Congress and made enormous positive changes to the US economy, policy, and served the people. He was respected by world leaders and had diplomatic skills. Unless you were watching Fox News which could explain your "alternative" reality.
6
@Reva Cooper Ha ha ha ha. Money laundering for The Russians kind of clean, you mean. Yes, fluffed and folded too no doubt, Ha ha ha ha!
Trump has all the nuance and depth of a barn door, which anyone with half a brain quickly realizes.
That's why he can be played and manipulated so easily. Cases in point: China, Saudi Arabia, Putin, et al. There is nothing beyond the bluster, and that itself is only a façade, easily shattered by anyone with resolve.
That's why he can be played and manipulated so easily. Cases in point: China, Saudi Arabia, Putin, et al. There is nothing beyond the bluster, and that itself is only a façade, easily shattered by anyone with resolve.
36
Our profoundly lazy leader has yet to learn what is in any of these pieces of legislation, including Obamacare. We are a country in the hands of a mental toddler. He might as well consult a ouija board for every issue on which he attempts to rule. Let's just all agree to stop talking like there is some sort of method at work. There is absolutely no "there there" when it comes to Trump. He is a con man and we have been conned.
132
A GOP president using an ouija board is not out of their wheelhouse. Reagan relied on astrology; GW counted on the mythic musings of his neo- con copresident Cheney. I believe the first Bush was an adult but look where logic and honesty got him with his own party? They just aren't a very bright bunch, as a group or as individuals entrusted with the presidency
5
What can we do with a president who has no experience in negotiating? He bullies his private business associates. He tells employees what to do and they do it. Beyond that, the skill set appears to be limited. Along with contradictory tweets and threats, there's nothing there. For those of us unimpressed with money and bluster, the qualities of intellect, ethics, ideas and thoughtfulness are what works. Those are qualities Mr. Trump does not possess and will not be cultivated. He is not helped by his intentionally strange advisers like Bannon who focuses on his personal philosophy of evil is good nor by the limp opportunist Kushner. Recently, and I suspect Steve Miller was the instigator , the names and emails, etc. of people unhappy with the voter fraud commission were published. What kind of democracy creates an atmosphere of hostility like that? Sadly, this can't work. The American public is leaderless thanks to a team of misfits who have thus far succeeded in life by exploiting the publics' basest emotional needs. Just today I saw a graphic that finds that Mr. Trump's supporters are mostly in the opioid addicted states. Perhaps that explains a lot of what we are facing.
45
Pushing against senators' resistance with platitudes. Threats, veiled and not veiled. And when all else fails, there's always a round of golf to determine the fate of health coverage for 20 M Americans. Let's keep our eyes on the forest and not just the trees. trump is beyond unqualified and is disengaged wholly given he cannot treat everyone as a company lackey. Repeal and replace the results of this election instead.
19
Donald Trump's threat to go after Republicans who didn't tow the line on repeal-and-replace legislation has always been hollow, literally from election day.
It's easily overlooked when focusing on the Trump-Clinton main event, but Republicans lost seats in BOTH chambers of Congress last November: 6 in the House and 2 in the Senate. This demonstrated that the GOP could lose seats quite nicely without Mr. Trump's intervention, thank you very much.
So among his other physical attributes, let it be said that Mr. Trump is incapable of inspiring fear in Republicans because of his pathetic, teeny-tiny coattails.
It's easily overlooked when focusing on the Trump-Clinton main event, but Republicans lost seats in BOTH chambers of Congress last November: 6 in the House and 2 in the Senate. This demonstrated that the GOP could lose seats quite nicely without Mr. Trump's intervention, thank you very much.
So among his other physical attributes, let it be said that Mr. Trump is incapable of inspiring fear in Republicans because of his pathetic, teeny-tiny coattails.
10
Just read the "good" news that they are reviving the health care bill again by introducing it to the floor and allowing amendments. And then I read the catch, amendments will be permitted only from the 51 Republicans. This has to end - we need a government "by the people, for the people and of the people." This partisan nonsense will literally kill people this time. Senator McConnell, wake up and allow input from all of our elected representatives, not just the folks from your caucus. Until you do the health care plan will not be well received.
77
@Scott: That's 50 Republicans, not 51. No McCain.
Will Ted Cruz vote for any amendment proposed by Susan Collins or vice-versa? Nope. Nothing's moving forward.
Will Ted Cruz vote for any amendment proposed by Susan Collins or vice-versa? Nope. Nothing's moving forward.
2
Over the six months he's been in office, Trump has not yet learned that members of Congress do not work for him, and being president is not like playing the mogul on reality TV. He does not pay them, he cannot fire them, and he is so unpopular in most states that he cannot threaten them. Trump equates signing executive orders with governing, because passing legislation is beyond his capability. Six months in office, and he's already a lame duck.
285
@MsPea: Brilliant assessment of Trump's mindset.
7
Threats and humiliation works well in reality TV shows, but, in the real world, they breed deep resentments, which, are never forgotten.
307
Hear hear!
6