The points listed as outrageous by the authors suit me fine.
8
We just witnessed another beheading by one branch of the Moslem faith. What is the matter with barring members of this Moslem sect from access to our country. As long as leaders of the different Moslem faiths preach killing infidels and using children for suicide bombing it behooves us to ban members of those faiths from entering our country. When we hear the leaders of the various Moslem faiths condemning the killing of infidels by brutal and murderous acts by Moslem adherents, it will be time to welcome normal Moslems into our midst. As long as beheadings, mass vehicle slaughter of innocents, and suicide bombings by women and children are advocated by Moslem leaders, there is no place in our country for criminals who carry out these atrocities. We welcome our Moslem brothers and sisters who come to join us with brotherly beliefs but we must bar entry to fanatics who are out to kill us and dictate to us what we are to be allowed to believe. "What does the Lord require of us but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God."
6
The fact that trump's attempt and plan to protect Americans from Arab Muslims who murdered 3000 Americans, are now behaving like the injured party is just too much! The fact that Trump's ban is working at all is the best news we have had all month.
7
Let us say that Trump decides to really slow down the Visa process.
He lays off many of the investigating officers, shortens their hours,
hires fewer and fewer officers who speak the native languages.
Raises, enormously, the cost of applying for a Visa.
Is what he would be doing strictly illegal or Executive Branch prerogative ?
Can a Federal Judge tell the President how many people must work here
in the government and how many must work there and how quickly they
must process files/applications/visas ?
Farhana Khera makes it seem as if America must admit not only those seeking
initial entry but also their extended families.
Where is this written in the Constitution ?
What other country has immigration laws such as these ?
Who has the 'Final Say' in these matters ?
The American People or un-elected Federal Judges who
need not fear losing their life-time appointment jobs
to any immigrant at any time ?
He lays off many of the investigating officers, shortens their hours,
hires fewer and fewer officers who speak the native languages.
Raises, enormously, the cost of applying for a Visa.
Is what he would be doing strictly illegal or Executive Branch prerogative ?
Can a Federal Judge tell the President how many people must work here
in the government and how many must work there and how quickly they
must process files/applications/visas ?
Farhana Khera makes it seem as if America must admit not only those seeking
initial entry but also their extended families.
Where is this written in the Constitution ?
What other country has immigration laws such as these ?
Who has the 'Final Say' in these matters ?
The American People or un-elected Federal Judges who
need not fear losing their life-time appointment jobs
to any immigrant at any time ?
8
There is no question to all of us who understand the Constitution of our country that Trump's ban is a Muslim ban, discriminates on the basis of religion, and is patently unconstitutional. If the Roberts Court does not rule against it, then we will know that Christian conservatives have taken over the third branch of our democratic government, as well. So much for "strict constitutionalism." What a sham that has turned out to be. We are fast becoming a Christian theocracy. The Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves.
2
Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens.
12
Anyone knows that Trump is not clever enough to figure out these schemes, but his appointees, including Steve Bannon, are. One should only give him credit for putting in place so many people whose intent is to damage the country.
2
Here are the twenty countries with the most Muslim residents. Out of those twenty countries, only four are affected by Trump's E.O. Four out of twenty. And not one of the top-five countries is affected. How can any sane person call the E.O. a "Muslim ban"?
Indonesia 204,847,000
Pakistan 178,097,000
India 172,000,000
Bangladesh 145,312,000
Nigeria 75,728,000
* Iran 74,819,000
Turkey 74,660,000
Egypt 73,746,000
Algeria 34,780,000
Morocco 32,381,000
Iraq 31,108,000
* Sudan 30,855,000
Saudi Arabia 30,770,375
Afghanistan 29,047,000
Ethiopia 28,721,000
Uzbekistan 26,833,000
* Yemen 24,023,000
China 23,308,000
* Syria 20,895,000
Malaysia 17,139,000
Indonesia 204,847,000
Pakistan 178,097,000
India 172,000,000
Bangladesh 145,312,000
Nigeria 75,728,000
* Iran 74,819,000
Turkey 74,660,000
Egypt 73,746,000
Algeria 34,780,000
Morocco 32,381,000
Iraq 31,108,000
* Sudan 30,855,000
Saudi Arabia 30,770,375
Afghanistan 29,047,000
Ethiopia 28,721,000
Uzbekistan 26,833,000
* Yemen 24,023,000
China 23,308,000
* Syria 20,895,000
Malaysia 17,139,000
10
Is anyone surprised by this article?. Trump only likes white, conservative males.
2
It's a shame most people don't understand the purpose of the ban. It's to allow for more careful investigation into the background of anyone coming from lawless ungoverned territories. When a country cannot track who is coming or going (or from where someone has come), that job can only be done by our own government.
Moreover those lawless territories are attractive to ISIS fighters fleeing their strongholds. ISIS fighters are not going to Saudi Arabia, which now has a much better handle on who is within its borders and is why we don't need to ban people from that country. It can provide information used to vet travelers.
Moreover those lawless territories are attractive to ISIS fighters fleeing their strongholds. ISIS fighters are not going to Saudi Arabia, which now has a much better handle on who is within its borders and is why we don't need to ban people from that country. It can provide information used to vet travelers.
10
How many Jihad terror attacks on the West does it take for people to open their eyes to the actual threat that we face? Take the Somalia community in the US for instance. (Somalia being one of the countries on the list, which by the way, Trump inherited from Obama.) This group has the dubious distinction of having the highest number of people who have left or sought to leave the country to fight with terrorists aligned with the Islamic State, according to a scathing congressional report.
Also, the tragic shooting of the unarmed woman in Minneapolis, who was trying to be a good Samaritan and reported to police what she thought was an assault, was killed directly outside of her home by the Somali-American officer, Mohamed Noor, for no explicit reason what-so-ever, and with his camera conveniently turned off, against police protocol. Stay tuned as this story develops.
I have seen enough to know that this is a real threat to our safety, and am glad that our POTUS is trying to alleviate this real threat. No one has a constitutional right to immigrate the the US! But American citizens should have rights to be protected from Jihad in our own country, on American soil!
Also, the tragic shooting of the unarmed woman in Minneapolis, who was trying to be a good Samaritan and reported to police what she thought was an assault, was killed directly outside of her home by the Somali-American officer, Mohamed Noor, for no explicit reason what-so-ever, and with his camera conveniently turned off, against police protocol. Stay tuned as this story develops.
I have seen enough to know that this is a real threat to our safety, and am glad that our POTUS is trying to alleviate this real threat. No one has a constitutional right to immigrate the the US! But American citizens should have rights to be protected from Jihad in our own country, on American soil!
14
Interesting - plenty of documentation about white males going on homocidal rampages. Shall we hold back the sale of guns to whites, perform mass search and censure of whites, ban them to another country? You seem quite zealous in your crusade for security over liberty, but I'm sure that's reserved for those not of your ethnic ilk.
Frankly, I began expecting our immigration policy to change on September 11, 2001. I had no problem with such a change then and I have no problem with it now.
13
As usual, the administration is cruel and underhanded, carrying out its war on Muslims, but only from certain countries. Coincidentally they are the countries without Trump investments--what a surprise. The Hawaii federal court judge was absolutely right to interpret grandparents as being close relatives; only the vicious Trump administration would disagree. Clearly the 3 hard right SC justices will side with the administration, but perhaps the other six will use common sense and uphold the lower court.
7
The authors of this piece write that the new emergency review that the Trump administration wants to enact states that it is for “populations warranting increased scrutiny" (quotation marks in the artilce). However anyone who takes the time to actually read the proposal will see that nowhere does it use that language, and so the idea that it targets 'populations', which is the basis of the whole artilce, is an outright lie.
Rather the document provides for exactly who will be singled out for enhanced screening, which will require them to produce additional records. The first criteria put forth are for those for whom it appears before the consular officer that they have been in a country under the operational control of terrorists. The second and more general criteria for enhanced screening is if the visa applicant "will present a threat profile, based on individual circumstances and information they provide, that will lead U.S. consular officers at posts around the world to conclude the applicant warrants enhanced screening".
So the only reason that more Muslims will be subjected to enhanced screening is for the obvious reason that those suspected of believing its jihad to kill Americans are Muslims.
However the determination that they may be a threat is made by individual consular officials. As such anyone who demands that such people simply be granted visas is certainly no friend of America.
The one question is if the NYT will run a correction to rectify this lie.
Rather the document provides for exactly who will be singled out for enhanced screening, which will require them to produce additional records. The first criteria put forth are for those for whom it appears before the consular officer that they have been in a country under the operational control of terrorists. The second and more general criteria for enhanced screening is if the visa applicant "will present a threat profile, based on individual circumstances and information they provide, that will lead U.S. consular officers at posts around the world to conclude the applicant warrants enhanced screening".
So the only reason that more Muslims will be subjected to enhanced screening is for the obvious reason that those suspected of believing its jihad to kill Americans are Muslims.
However the determination that they may be a threat is made by individual consular officials. As such anyone who demands that such people simply be granted visas is certainly no friend of America.
The one question is if the NYT will run a correction to rectify this lie.
11
If The Times were interested in the truth it would report them as "predominantly Muslim countries under the control of terrorists". Unfortunately, it appears more interested in pushing the narrative that Trump is anti-Muslim, clinging to an Obama-era identity battle that serves no one.
8
Met my Ethiopian neighbor's mother today as she visits every summer. She told me how her country fears/is disappointed with Muslims and for various reasons. A Jewish woman told me the same thing last week. All I could say is: "it is not politically correct to comment on such."
7
They have a new version of Jim Crow laws to suit their purposes. They are sad cruel people with closed minds.
3
Maryam Mirzakhani, an Iranian immigrant, was a Stanford mathematics professor. She was also the only woman ever to win a Fields Medal, the most prestigious honor in mathematics. She would not have been allowed into Trump’s America. I seriously question Trump & Co.’s motives for this all encompassing ban and wonder how many more immigrants like Ms. Mirzakhani they will “protect” us from?
https://nyti.ms/2uorkz7
https://nyti.ms/2uorkz7
6
Very Thoughtful by Prager..............https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2017/07/18/nukes-threaten-p...
3
If the right wing was the least bit informed while remaining xenophobic, they would be foaming at the mouth to nvade Saudi Arabia. But oil and money seem to mix a little too well.
It's not about terrorism; it's more 'what's your sand doing on our oil'. But only if some countries not in favor haven't invested heavily in lobbyists.
It's not about terrorism; it's more 'what's your sand doing on our oil'. But only if some countries not in favor haven't invested heavily in lobbyists.
5
Many Americans are pleased with President Trump's vetting immigrants coming from the counties that are part of this process. It is not a permanent ban just a pause to make sure those arriving here are not terrorists out to kill and harm us.
England, France and Germany have suffered numerous attacks and we want to prevent this from happening to our citizens. These incidents have not endured the Muslims to the Europeans and have caused animosity and anger. We want to avoid this from happening here. We must put Americans first and if these people are safe and not a danger to our security then by all means they are welcome.
England, France and Germany have suffered numerous attacks and we want to prevent this from happening to our citizens. These incidents have not endured the Muslims to the Europeans and have caused animosity and anger. We want to avoid this from happening here. We must put Americans first and if these people are safe and not a danger to our security then by all means they are welcome.
9
President Trump simply, openly carrying out the wishes of the US electorate !
10
Tell how this wins over hearts and minds which is the true battle against terrorism?
1
No the true battle against terrorism includes exclusion which was the point of even liberal public television's piece last week on Europe and how Europe repeatedly did not stop terrorists crossing their borders and still do not have coordinated border policy not coordinated intelligence on thousands returning to Europe after having fought in Syria for terror connected groups.
6
It is not only immigrants from Muslim countries who should be prepared to adapt themselves here in the US. But, it should be applied to all immigrants.
The travel ban on the six Muslim majority countries is not new. These countries were already on the list during Mr. Obama's presidency as well.
In any case, the travel ban on these six Muslim countries is confusing, and amounts to hypocrisy. If it is to curb potential terrorist threats, then, why is Saudi Arabia not on the list? Even Pakistan? Citizens of these two countries were involved in terrorist activity.
The Trump administration may argue that the travel ban on the six countries, is not a ban on Muslims entering the US. Because, there are certain other countries with large Muslim populations, who are not on the travel ban list. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population. Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, U.A.E. Egypt and several other countries.
The US has to stop going to wars, and interfering in the affairs of other countries. When you go and bomb another country, you do not expect the people to keep quite. People retaliate. They resort to revenge. When this happens, we call these people terrorists. Does this make sense?
The travel ban on the six Muslim majority countries is not new. These countries were already on the list during Mr. Obama's presidency as well.
In any case, the travel ban on these six Muslim countries is confusing, and amounts to hypocrisy. If it is to curb potential terrorist threats, then, why is Saudi Arabia not on the list? Even Pakistan? Citizens of these two countries were involved in terrorist activity.
The Trump administration may argue that the travel ban on the six countries, is not a ban on Muslims entering the US. Because, there are certain other countries with large Muslim populations, who are not on the travel ban list. Indonesia has the largest Muslim population. Afghanistan, Iraq, Jordan, U.A.E. Egypt and several other countries.
The US has to stop going to wars, and interfering in the affairs of other countries. When you go and bomb another country, you do not expect the people to keep quite. People retaliate. They resort to revenge. When this happens, we call these people terrorists. Does this make sense?
3
I can't help remembering the active role the Asst. Sec. of State Breckenridge Long played in FDR's administration in keeping Holocaust refugee from finding safe harbor in the United States. According to NY Times writer, Walter Goodman in his review of "The American Experience"-America and the Holocaust: Deceit and Indifference, Long's technique is revealed by a memorandum he wrote in 1940:: "We can delay and effectively stop for a temporary period of indefinite length the number of immigrants into the United States. We could do this by simply advising our consuls to put every obstacle in the way, which would postpone and postpone and postpone the granting of the visas."
I know it sounds trite but history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn it and learn from it.
I know it sounds trite but history keeps repeating itself because we refuse to learn it and learn from it.
1
"The collective impact of these changes will be that a permanent Muslim ban is enshrined into American immigration policy."
Methinks the changes will be anything but permanent, and enshrined....no.
We have had many repressive government policies in the past, and not just about immigration. Slavery/Jim Crow being the ugliest and longest lasting, but the internment of American citizens of Japanese descent during WW II being the a good example as well that is similar to the ban on Muslims.
We make mistakes, sometimes huge ones, but nothing is permanent in America.
Methinks the changes will be anything but permanent, and enshrined....no.
We have had many repressive government policies in the past, and not just about immigration. Slavery/Jim Crow being the ugliest and longest lasting, but the internment of American citizens of Japanese descent during WW II being the a good example as well that is similar to the ban on Muslims.
We make mistakes, sometimes huge ones, but nothing is permanent in America.
3
It's not a Muslim ban. It's enhanced immigration procedures and requirements for a tiny fraction of the world's Muslim population.
10
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. A minute fraction of this vast community of believers has taken to terrorism against the West and often the attacks were committed by alienated citizens of Western countries. Violence from right-wing extremists is a great threat in America, but there is no corresponding idea of banning from the country say all subscribers to The Daily Stormer or other Alt-Right sites. No one is questioning America's right to allow in as visitors or immigrants those whom it considers eligible. It is logical to ban those who can be identified as threats to security. It's not rational to ban all those who are adherents of a particular religion, no matter which faith. That is not American.
3
What if that faith believes that sharia law should ultimately cover the earth and if necessary...by force. Then that faith is not simply a faith among others but it is a hybrid of religion with a political ideology joined to the religion at the hip....a political ideology that bides it's time.
4
So many comments here show a willingness to ignore inconvenient facts or parrot GOP talking points.
There are only so many words available in an Op-Ed space, and this is hardly an issue that can be thoroughly explained in a limited amount of words. But to those who think this isn't a big deal, consider this:
The requirement to hand over social media passwords at the border has already stretched beyond Muslims (https://goo.gl/xyD3B8). Until the courts rule decisively on this, all of us are in danger of experiencing this. Do you want your most intimate thoughts and information open to a DHS agent on a power trip?
If we only promulgate regulations on people from certain nations and faiths, and do so via executive order, then we mock the idea of fair treatment under the law. We regularly petition other governments to return our citizens when they are put through show trials or charged unfairly for a crime. What standing do we have if we are willing to treat Muslims so much differently than anyone else?
Finally, blaming those nations for their "inability to vet applicants" is rather farcical considering AMERICA is responsible for their situations to begin with. We invaded Iraq falsely (destabilizing Afghanistan's security to do so), aided the Libyan overthrow of Gaddafi, targeted Assad in Syria, and have provided the weapons for the Saudis to bomb Yemen to the Stone Age. Refusing to help those we've helped displace is morally reprehensible.
There are only so many words available in an Op-Ed space, and this is hardly an issue that can be thoroughly explained in a limited amount of words. But to those who think this isn't a big deal, consider this:
The requirement to hand over social media passwords at the border has already stretched beyond Muslims (https://goo.gl/xyD3B8). Until the courts rule decisively on this, all of us are in danger of experiencing this. Do you want your most intimate thoughts and information open to a DHS agent on a power trip?
If we only promulgate regulations on people from certain nations and faiths, and do so via executive order, then we mock the idea of fair treatment under the law. We regularly petition other governments to return our citizens when they are put through show trials or charged unfairly for a crime. What standing do we have if we are willing to treat Muslims so much differently than anyone else?
Finally, blaming those nations for their "inability to vet applicants" is rather farcical considering AMERICA is responsible for their situations to begin with. We invaded Iraq falsely (destabilizing Afghanistan's security to do so), aided the Libyan overthrow of Gaddafi, targeted Assad in Syria, and have provided the weapons for the Saudis to bomb Yemen to the Stone Age. Refusing to help those we've helped displace is morally reprehensible.
5
This is one of the things people who voted for Trump hoped he would do. ie, limit immigration and especially Muslim immigration. He is giving his voters what they voted for.
13
The US must look to changing it's immigration policies. We need to reduce the annual immigration allotments (country growing at too fast a pace; needs to withdraw), and eliminate our policy referred to as 'anchor babies' (i.e. baby born in Us becomes a citizen).
For all those claiming that Trump is evil to increase vetting from countries known to harbor Islamist extremists and it's evil not to help people that want to come hear as they're not happy in their country of origin - WE CANNOT SUSTAIN THE CURRENT POPULATION GROWTH. Our infrastructure, our water, our open lands - must be protected. Why is it evil to restrict immigration in 2017 when every country on the planet does so???
For all those claiming that Trump is evil to increase vetting from countries known to harbor Islamist extremists and it's evil not to help people that want to come hear as they're not happy in their country of origin - WE CANNOT SUSTAIN THE CURRENT POPULATION GROWTH. Our infrastructure, our water, our open lands - must be protected. Why is it evil to restrict immigration in 2017 when every country on the planet does so???
13
Thanks to the authors for bringing this into the light. This is not getting reported. I'm not surprised this is happening behind the scenes given Trump's views and people like Stephen Millar and Steve Bannon in the background (and I'm sure there are other Eurocentric advocates in the White House). Fear of the "other" is so unfortunate.
2
For those of us with close connections to Muslims, terrible precedents are currently being set, out of bias and ignorance. Those Muslims who desire to come here to the US have legitimate reasons to do so - family, school, work, tourism. They have no ulterior motives. They admire our country and what we have to offer to them and the world. We have much more to fear from driving on our highways or the handguns in our own homes than any Muslim.
The "otherization" of Muslim harms every single one of the over 1 billion Muslims around the world, an incredibly diverse group. My husband is a sweet, kind person who does not deserve to be ostracized for his moderate faith in Islam. These new policies could very well prevent his own family from coming here to give him the loving, extended familial support he deserves as a permanent US resident and eventual US citizen. I find myself more and more ashamed of my country and my fellow citizens. I thought we were better than this.
The "otherization" of Muslim harms every single one of the over 1 billion Muslims around the world, an incredibly diverse group. My husband is a sweet, kind person who does not deserve to be ostracized for his moderate faith in Islam. These new policies could very well prevent his own family from coming here to give him the loving, extended familial support he deserves as a permanent US resident and eventual US citizen. I find myself more and more ashamed of my country and my fellow citizens. I thought we were better than this.
8
The article didn't address the question specifically, but are Muslims from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan subjected to the same constraints? Trump has been flamboyantly making nice with Saudi Arabia despite the role of Saudis in 9/11. He has investments in hotels there, and I wonder how he would treat travel by the managers of those hotels, say.
5
Look at Europe.Low inequality,generous welfare and liberal politics.What do you get from the Muslim community?Bombings and attacks.What have Sweden and Denmark done?We haven't invaded anyone but get attacked by people we have taken in.Welfare is generous but we are considered impure.Thai people in Sweden are so well integrated by comparison.Trump has gotten the Muslim thing right.Learn from Europe.
17
It is imperative for Western Civilization to read and understand best selling book "The Strange Death of Europe" by Douglas Murray. The book details immigration, identity, islam. The political elites in Europe have destroyed Europe through their politically correct immigration policies. Thankfully, the Trump administration is aware of the demographic death, destruction of what has occurred in Europe, i.e., the disappearance of Europe as it has historically been known. The fact is - islam ideology and its believers are not compatible with, do not belong in Western societies. To fail to acknowledge islam has permanently altered Europe is to invite the same to America. Naive notions of assimilation or discredited moronic multi-culture diversity gibberish cannot stand. In short, Judeo-Christian Western Civilization cannot coexist with islam. They need to be with their own, in their own lands.
21
The liberal, progressive agenda includes self annihilation.
"The Camp of the Saints" by Jean Raspail is also an interesting read.
Written in 1975, this fictional account describes what is now occurring within Europe and the Muslim influx. Warning, it does not end well.
"The Camp of the Saints" by Jean Raspail is also an interesting read.
Written in 1975, this fictional account describes what is now occurring within Europe and the Muslim influx. Warning, it does not end well.
16
Africa and South Asia are growing stronger by the decade, recovering from the effects of colonialism, both economically and socially. It is really dumb to pick a fight with more than half of the world. We, meaning the USA, need to find a way to accommodate Eastern ways of looking at the world. It isn't going to degrade our form of democracy, it actually might invigorate it.
1
I too am scared and embarrassed by Americans who have such a negative attitude toward immigrants, especially Muslims. They are not committing crimes or hurting our values. It's a pleasure to have them, to learn from other cultures and ideas. It's tragic to see people close off their minds to new and exciting people and ideas. This is the foundation of democracy.
2
Not hurting our values? Muslims who live by the Quran believe that honor killings are acceptable
7
We already have honor killings -- look at the number of intra-family murders (and some murder/suicides) caused by interracial dating, "she's mine, so I can kill her" mindsets, etc.
It's always the daughter, wives, and sisters that get killed. Patriarchy based on Eve's sin. Call it what you like, but those are part of our values. Whether we like it or not.
It's always the daughter, wives, and sisters that get killed. Patriarchy based on Eve's sin. Call it what you like, but those are part of our values. Whether we like it or not.
There is an enduring popularity throughout history of demonizing the "other" in the absence of supporting data. Today, in this country, right wing terrorists represent a bigger threat to citizens than foreign-born Muslims, but that does not suit the Trump agenda. Hopefully the real facts will prevail in calmer minds.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigge...
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigge...
2
Here's the thing: we, as Democrats, have ceded this ground to the Republicans. We have allowed ourselves to be associated with very liberal immigration policies, that seemingly favor people from other countries over our own American citizens. We MUST take this ground back.
I am very liberal politically, but Trump has hit a nerve, even with people like me, who find him detestable. Even I, have grave misgivings over importing people from all over the world, who have vastly different values, mores and cultural expectations. Even I, feel very conflicted and upset when I see women being set apart from society by veils, headscarves and burkas. Even I, do not want this country to bend toward acceptance of all things, due to "diversity".
Democrats, listen up: most people are accepting of differences in our fellow human beings, but we DO expect immigrants to assimilate and leave the old country behind. We are shutting down debate by being constantly offended, and sensitive to any discussion of racial and cultural differences. We are in danger of LOSING a generation of young people who are tired of being shut down for daring to express a thought that might just offend someone else.
As my 21 year old son said to me in exasperation with PC culture, just this past week: "How did we get to the point where OFFENDING someone is DISCRIMINATION? They are two separate things, mom! I reserve the right to offend someone without discriminating against them!"
I am very liberal politically, but Trump has hit a nerve, even with people like me, who find him detestable. Even I, have grave misgivings over importing people from all over the world, who have vastly different values, mores and cultural expectations. Even I, feel very conflicted and upset when I see women being set apart from society by veils, headscarves and burkas. Even I, do not want this country to bend toward acceptance of all things, due to "diversity".
Democrats, listen up: most people are accepting of differences in our fellow human beings, but we DO expect immigrants to assimilate and leave the old country behind. We are shutting down debate by being constantly offended, and sensitive to any discussion of racial and cultural differences. We are in danger of LOSING a generation of young people who are tired of being shut down for daring to express a thought that might just offend someone else.
As my 21 year old son said to me in exasperation with PC culture, just this past week: "How did we get to the point where OFFENDING someone is DISCRIMINATION? They are two separate things, mom! I reserve the right to offend someone without discriminating against them!"
19
You can be offensive without discriminating.
You can be polite and still discriminate.
Use terms precisely -- words are your friends.
You can be polite and still discriminate.
Use terms precisely -- words are your friends.
1
He doesn't have to wait until the Supreme Court rules...
3
I wonder how many people will avoid the US because of this. Tourist, foreign students, educated immigrants, will think twice about a less welcoming America. Americans have chosen security over freedom and prosperity.
I despise everything about Trump but on this issue he is (mostly) right.
Read Douglas Murray's new book - The Strange Death of Europe - for a chilling account of what Muslim immigration is doing to Europe.
Read Douglas Murray's new book - The Strange Death of Europe - for a chilling account of what Muslim immigration is doing to Europe.
14
I am afraid this has not been our experience. I think this report is false. We have been dealing with visas for many years and this year the process was actually faster and the visas that were denied were were fewer than before and did not target any particular country.
1
Good for President Trump! It's difficult to understand why immigrant activists do not understand the implications of unlimited immigration, particularly of people from failed-state countries ripe with terrorism, illegal immigrants flooding our borders, and those who overstay their visas. The sorry condition of healthcare, food instability, ridiculously poor education for most native-born Americans, et al, makes meI wonder how these activists think the money comes from to support these people. Schools in larger cities must cater to all languages of their students, often more than 50. How much does this cost schools who must shut down other needed services and activities needed for all students. Hospitals, large and small, must care for people who will never pay so the costs are passed on to the taxpayers. Press one for English and two for Spanish: why don't we require English only so that immigrants are immersed in it? The biggest contradiction of all why they don't understand that the vast majority of people wish to live among people like themselves, which is considered racist by liberals, but they praise "communities of color," "Chinatown," Muslim enclaves, et al. It's quite obvious that in countries all over the world that people live among those like themselves. Most countries have borders for a very good reason: they want to keep their countries intact.
20
Anyone who earns money in this country has to pay tax, whether a citizen or not. However, only citizens are guaranteed benefits. Immigrants subsidize our economy, don't be so quick to assume they are net takers.
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immig...
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immig...
2
Illegal immigration has been declining for several years. There's no "flood" across the border.
No one is saying immigration should be unlimited. There have been several serious attempts to totally overhaul the immigration laws, yet there have been compromises since 2006 when 43’s comprehensive bipartisan attempt was shot down by the "security first" faction of the GOP. Apparently, they can't hold two thoughts in their brains at the same time.
No one is saying immigration should be unlimited. There have been several serious attempts to totally overhaul the immigration laws, yet there have been compromises since 2006 when 43’s comprehensive bipartisan attempt was shot down by the "security first" faction of the GOP. Apparently, they can't hold two thoughts in their brains at the same time.
The vast majority of Americans prefer to live in a country where Islam plays a minuscule part of daily life. Therefore the vast majority of Americans could care less that it is becoming more onerous for Muslims to immigrate here.
22
Trumps established ignorance presents again. His ban on certain Muslim countries that never sent terrorists are way and ignoring Saudi Arabia is an expression of his muddled thoughts. In the 1970's the royal Saudi family allowed the extreme Sufism take control of the Saudi schools and their Muslim religion. This extreme belief gave birth to al Qaeda, Isis, and Boko Haram. And of course, Osama bin Laden was a product of these schools. Their repression of women and intolerance for anything modern is legendary. But the Trumps kissed the bottom of their hems and they hung an ostentatious medallion around his neck. Trumps only obligation is to himself and his pathetic money grubbing family. By the way, the products he and his produce are not 'made in America'.
1
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Let's put aside political correctness and multiculturalism and examine the subject of islamic immigration objectively. Of course, that inquiry requires a modicum of knowledge about the subject. In far too many who participate in the debate about it such knowledge is woefully inadequate or incapacitated by perilous cognitive dissonance.
There should be no tolerance for intolerance. Who, exactly, are the intolerant? Islamic ideology defined by sharia law and koranic scripture mandates a supremacist theocracy in which infidels/non-believers are required to occupy a dhimmi status. it follows as night follows day that immigrants to the USA who adhere to such an ideology can never accept our constitutionally mandated civil and human rights which provide equal treatment under the US law to all including women, gays, and non-muslims. Islam is immutable in its denial of equal rights to these groups.
Moreover, there is no freedom of conscience or expression under sharia law to which practicing muslims adhere. Witness the recent imprisonment of a state governor in Indonesia for blasphemy. All schools of Islam mandate death for apostasy. Adultery and blasphemy are also capital offenses.
If being opposed to immigration by those who adhere to the barbaric moral code of sharia makes me a right winger, so be it. How ironic. I would have thought those supporting such values would be the right wingers.
Let's put aside political correctness and multiculturalism and examine the subject of islamic immigration objectively. Of course, that inquiry requires a modicum of knowledge about the subject. In far too many who participate in the debate about it such knowledge is woefully inadequate or incapacitated by perilous cognitive dissonance.
There should be no tolerance for intolerance. Who, exactly, are the intolerant? Islamic ideology defined by sharia law and koranic scripture mandates a supremacist theocracy in which infidels/non-believers are required to occupy a dhimmi status. it follows as night follows day that immigrants to the USA who adhere to such an ideology can never accept our constitutionally mandated civil and human rights which provide equal treatment under the US law to all including women, gays, and non-muslims. Islam is immutable in its denial of equal rights to these groups.
Moreover, there is no freedom of conscience or expression under sharia law to which practicing muslims adhere. Witness the recent imprisonment of a state governor in Indonesia for blasphemy. All schools of Islam mandate death for apostasy. Adultery and blasphemy are also capital offenses.
If being opposed to immigration by those who adhere to the barbaric moral code of sharia makes me a right winger, so be it. How ironic. I would have thought those supporting such values would be the right wingers.
30
When in this country we have people denying service to others because their Christian religious beliefs are offended by gay lifestyles, parents who advocate torturing their children to "cure" them of homosexuality, schools teaching creationism instead of real science, and many people's refusal to accept that gay marriage isn't harmful to anyone, you haven't got tolerance. So I argue that you are not examining the subject objectively, you are ignoring the intolerance that still exists here. Muslims are neither more intolerant than Christians, nor more likely to break our laws against civil or human rights.
1
I haven't read about any christians throwing gays of of tall buildings. I have read about it being done in sharia law countries.
5
Irony of all ironies: the much despised bureauacracy doing Trump's bidding. Who woulda' thunk it....
2
No foreigner, Muslim or otherwise, has an absolute right to enter this country. The choices here are play by the rules of entry, remain where you are or apply to enter Canada or Europe.
22
Not really. Complaints of “burdensome” regulations and bureaucratic red tape are not exactly new in America. Do you also think there’re too many lawsuits?
4
I wish the NYT would publish more articles like this rather than constantly headlining Trump’s latest tweet or speculations on what is going on with the GOP. This is what is important coming out of this administration that we need to know about, not the shiny objects the administration flashes to distract us while they change laws.
6
If trump were vetted, he would not be in this country.
8
Readers persist in applying logic and principles to a president who has neither, only a hunger for the loudest applause lines. This is why Trump permitted the Afghan girls’ robotics team to enter the country in contradiction of his Muslim ban: much more thrilling to be Evita and take personal credit.
This Administration has no real policy about anything, just opportunities for WWF smackdowns. If our mad emperor can get applause for nuking North Korea, we must expect that too. The Senators who might restrain him like wise mentors have violated their oaths to uphold the Constitution, leaving Nero free to play with matches.
This Administration has no real policy about anything, just opportunities for WWF smackdowns. If our mad emperor can get applause for nuking North Korea, we must expect that too. The Senators who might restrain him like wise mentors have violated their oaths to uphold the Constitution, leaving Nero free to play with matches.
5
Didn't this President skip the necessary Mental Health Exam?
Has he ever had his brain examined?
I suggest that needs to be accomplished Pronto!
Has he ever had his brain examined?
I suggest that needs to be accomplished Pronto!
4
If you were to do a little research you would find that the God Christians pray to is the same God that the Muslims and Jews pray to. So now what are all of you good folks going to do?
4
If this issue interests you, I highly recommend googling Pew Research Center's "Religious Landscape Study." It's the result of exhaustive polling of religious Americans. Check out the section on Muslims, particularly "Social and Political Views," and actually take a look at what their values are. Compare them with the stats on Christianity.
Some food for thought: 45% believe homosexuality "should be accepted." An additional 8% chose neutral/"I don't know" responses, which means 53% of Muslims in this country – the majority of them – do not disapprove of gay people. Wait, there's more! 42% "strongly favor/favor same-sex marriage"! Also, 55% believe abortion "should be legal in most/all cases."
On all of those issues, the the response from Muslims was right on par with Christians – except abortion. On the biggest women's rights issue in American politics, support from Muslims surges ahead of Christians by a solid 10%.
The point? When given the chance to live in a country with religious freedom, Muslims are entirely capable of reconciling Islam with mainstream, modern life. They willingly and openly reject outdated ideas that conflict with civil rights just as readily as Christians do. Isn't that a good thing? Shouldn't we be encouraged by that, and give more of them the chance to get out of these horrifying countries that legally mandate violent, brutal violations of human rights?
Some food for thought: 45% believe homosexuality "should be accepted." An additional 8% chose neutral/"I don't know" responses, which means 53% of Muslims in this country – the majority of them – do not disapprove of gay people. Wait, there's more! 42% "strongly favor/favor same-sex marriage"! Also, 55% believe abortion "should be legal in most/all cases."
On all of those issues, the the response from Muslims was right on par with Christians – except abortion. On the biggest women's rights issue in American politics, support from Muslims surges ahead of Christians by a solid 10%.
The point? When given the chance to live in a country with religious freedom, Muslims are entirely capable of reconciling Islam with mainstream, modern life. They willingly and openly reject outdated ideas that conflict with civil rights just as readily as Christians do. Isn't that a good thing? Shouldn't we be encouraged by that, and give more of them the chance to get out of these horrifying countries that legally mandate violent, brutal violations of human rights?
6
You do make some very good points. Our Muslims (Americas's) are the best in the world, mostly because they're bad Muslims. My beef is not with Muslims, it's with Islam.
Also, I'd be the very last person to defend conservative Christianity (it's a horror)- so just because Muslims correlate on social issues with American Christians is no compliment; it means half of them are pretty crazy.
Also, I'd be the very last person to defend conservative Christianity (it's a horror)- so just because Muslims correlate on social issues with American Christians is no compliment; it means half of them are pretty crazy.
I'm not fond of conservative Christianity, either, but that's just it – we're totally familiar with the idea that Christianity encompasses a gradient of different interpretations and values, and "conservative" is one end of a spectrum. This data indicates that the same is true of Muslims, and just like Christians, roughly half are actually quite liberal. Yet we talk about Muslims as though they're a conservative monolith, with phrases like "Islamic beliefs" and "teachings of the Quran" and whatnot.
I just think it's critical that we base these discussions on accurate information about what the religion looks like here in our country. We have to stop thinking of Muslims as though they come in two flavors, "crazed ISIS zealot" and "not a threat but still sexist, repressed, and incompatible with what we hold dear." It's as nonsensical as talking about Christians as though every Christian family is basically like the Duggars.
I just think it's critical that we base these discussions on accurate information about what the religion looks like here in our country. We have to stop thinking of Muslims as though they come in two flavors, "crazed ISIS zealot" and "not a threat but still sexist, repressed, and incompatible with what we hold dear." It's as nonsensical as talking about Christians as though every Christian family is basically like the Duggars.
What we really need is extreme vetting of presidential candidates including release of tax returns.
12
If Assad starting doing business with Trump, I bet Syrians would get into America.
7
But of course Saudi Arabia where Trump has financial ties is not included in the ban. Instead Trump was dancing and holding hands with them in spite of the Saudis being among the repressive of Muslim countries as highlighted by the arrest today of a woman for not dressing appropriately and not being accompanied by a man.
7
The Saudis have always gotten a free pass because the president or his family have business ties. Most of the terrorists of 9/11, 15 out of 19, were Saudis, yet Bush claimed they were our best friends. Saudis are the largest exporters of radical Islam, the type that breeds terrorism, yet they are not ostracized. Bush and Trump make a point of saying they are our best friends even in the face of evidence that they are not. Money speaks louder than logic. If the Saudis were not financing radical Islamic practice around the world, there would be fewer radical Islamists.
8
It might be a lot safer for females to be accompanied to and from schools and work by their fellow females, perhaps at least 5 of their friends?
The problem is not religion so much as it is the love for Money!
When Trump is saying that they already have 'EXTREME VETTING', how much more extreme can it get?
He tweeted last month: "In any event we are EXTREME VETTING people coming into the U.S." [http://bit.ly/2u6ll1a]
... and I wondered how they could have introduced that, since at that time a court ruling was still in effect that barred the administration from conducting internal reviews of its vetting procedures. [http://nyti.ms/2sfWCHd]
So it's not really clear whether:
a) The administration found ways around the ruling
b) The administration violated the court ruling
c) Trump was just talking rubbish as usual
d) Trump had simply re-branded the existing system as 'EXTREME VETTING'
I guess that's academic now, and it's all hands on deck for the non-ban ban.
He tweeted last month: "In any event we are EXTREME VETTING people coming into the U.S." [http://bit.ly/2u6ll1a]
... and I wondered how they could have introduced that, since at that time a court ruling was still in effect that barred the administration from conducting internal reviews of its vetting procedures. [http://nyti.ms/2sfWCHd]
So it's not really clear whether:
a) The administration found ways around the ruling
b) The administration violated the court ruling
c) Trump was just talking rubbish as usual
d) Trump had simply re-branded the existing system as 'EXTREME VETTING'
I guess that's academic now, and it's all hands on deck for the non-ban ban.
3
As someone who worked within refugee resettlement for a number of years and now works all over the world, having been to 116 countries, it is amazing to see that the Trump administration is slowing down all visas for Muslim countries other than Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, and more. I know so because I have an annual IT gathering in the USA and these citizens easily received their visas despite their religions.
That Trump is blind to how his partial ban targeting such six countries which have never done anything to America but often praise it and seek asylum in it is simply sad for me to see.
These visitors which I am hosting for the next two weeks came to my home and we had a community picnic and they told me how much they loved being in the USA. Would Trump be willing to run the risk of closing down visa services to the bigger Muslim countries which then affects buyers for his real estate holdings?
In the end, Trump has invoked a partial ban on the poorest and hardest hit Muslim populations in the world while allowing other, more acceptable Muslims to pass through our entry gates.
That Trump is blind to how his partial ban targeting such six countries which have never done anything to America but often praise it and seek asylum in it is simply sad for me to see.
These visitors which I am hosting for the next two weeks came to my home and we had a community picnic and they told me how much they loved being in the USA. Would Trump be willing to run the risk of closing down visa services to the bigger Muslim countries which then affects buyers for his real estate holdings?
In the end, Trump has invoked a partial ban on the poorest and hardest hit Muslim populations in the world while allowing other, more acceptable Muslims to pass through our entry gates.
3
Your comment indicates that you are possessed of a degree of expertise far greater than the average commenter on this topic. If that be true, then you most assuredly must understand why the ban affects only a handful of countries with predominately Muslim populations. The affected countries do not have functioning governments. They do not have the means to vet those whose chose to use them as wormholes, easy points of departure for anyone bent on bringing harm to others... Also, as an aside I point out that we have poor of our own to take care of, we really don't need more...
1
Much of Donald's Muslim ban is utter nonsense, designed to appeal to our worst fears. The rest is scorn. Donald doesn't trust the institutions of government -- not the intelligence community nor the military. He disdains the traditions established by generations of civil servants and he does nothing to mollify the majority of the people who didn't vote for him.
His fear-mongering mistrust of the American government that he heads and our political institutions is frightening and unamerican.
I'd rather live in the remote fear of terrorism than in the present fear of fascism.
His fear-mongering mistrust of the American government that he heads and our political institutions is frightening and unamerican.
I'd rather live in the remote fear of terrorism than in the present fear of fascism.
7
Trump's motives are certainly suspect, his methods sneaky and his message usually dissonant. However, and it pains me to say this, he is correct about certain aspects of the immigration debate.
1- It is essential that we know who is in this country illegally. And we should start deporting illegal entrants and visa overstays- "last in, first out." Illegal entrants who've been here for 10 years or more should get a path to eventual citizenship. We already have a "common law marriage" with long term residents and it would be immoral to throw them out.
2- The executive branch has a nearly unfettered right to set immigration policy provided that policy is Constitutional.
3- Limiting Muslim immigration may well be a defensible policy if it is grounded on evidence that a substantial number of Muslims believe in political Islam, including government establishment of religion, adoption of Sharia law and the political expansion of Islamic states.
4- It is certainly not encouraging that so many recent Muslim immigrants to the US and Western Europe are insisting on hijabs and other religious symbols of separation from Western culture. We have every right to super-vet prospective immigrants to ensure that they abandon their Islamic culture and join the US melting pot.
1- It is essential that we know who is in this country illegally. And we should start deporting illegal entrants and visa overstays- "last in, first out." Illegal entrants who've been here for 10 years or more should get a path to eventual citizenship. We already have a "common law marriage" with long term residents and it would be immoral to throw them out.
2- The executive branch has a nearly unfettered right to set immigration policy provided that policy is Constitutional.
3- Limiting Muslim immigration may well be a defensible policy if it is grounded on evidence that a substantial number of Muslims believe in political Islam, including government establishment of religion, adoption of Sharia law and the political expansion of Islamic states.
4- It is certainly not encouraging that so many recent Muslim immigrants to the US and Western Europe are insisting on hijabs and other religious symbols of separation from Western culture. We have every right to super-vet prospective immigrants to ensure that they abandon their Islamic culture and join the US melting pot.
10
Again, strawman arguments. We weren't letting refugees in by the thousands like they do in Germany, and we had strict vetting procedures for the people who were allowed to come in. Trump simply doesn't know what he's talking about. Comparing the U.S. to Europe is apples and oranges. But our last president had a funny name and dark skin, so he must have been lax...
3
No straw man here. I am not saying our immigration situation is the same as Germany's. And our current Muslim population seems to be doing rather well by most measures. I also disagree with Trump that current immigration policy poses any real terrorist danger to the US.
That said, we have a serious problem with the number of undocumented residents (15 million or more) and that is simply ridiculous. There is a general notion that people can simply come here from overseas and stay here illegally forever. That is insane.
And to assume that Islamic culture, including political Islam, is perfectly in harmony with our superior Western system of laws and tolerance is foolish in the extreme. Our best hope is that all Muslim immigrants to the US quickly abandon the many aspects of Islamic culture that are inimical to our rightfully cherished and hard-won Western values.
That said, we have a serious problem with the number of undocumented residents (15 million or more) and that is simply ridiculous. There is a general notion that people can simply come here from overseas and stay here illegally forever. That is insane.
And to assume that Islamic culture, including political Islam, is perfectly in harmony with our superior Western system of laws and tolerance is foolish in the extreme. Our best hope is that all Muslim immigrants to the US quickly abandon the many aspects of Islamic culture that are inimical to our rightfully cherished and hard-won Western values.
11
I've said as much in a separate comment here, but you should take a gander at polling data about the political and social views of Muslims who live here in the U.S. I'm not sure what you consider "Islamic culture," but they're no more conservative than Christians who reside here. Roughly half of them support gay marriage; more than half believe abortion should be legal. They overwhelmingly identify as politically moderate or liberal.
Hijabs are a religious garment – plenty of other religions in this country have those. The reason the U.S. is called a "melting pot" is because we specifically do not force people to renounce their culture or faith when they immigrate, and never have. Your logic here is a bit confusing.
Hijabs are a religious garment – plenty of other religions in this country have those. The reason the U.S. is called a "melting pot" is because we specifically do not force people to renounce their culture or faith when they immigrate, and never have. Your logic here is a bit confusing.
"NON-IMMIGRANT VISAS." So visas for people from Muslim-majority countries who wish to visit the US for tourism or business are being delayed through "extreme vetting" and slow-walking through the system. That's just great. It's not enough that the US is fast becoming a pariah among nations but just for fun let's destroy US tourism and drive even more business away and exacerbate our balance-of-payments problems.
3
We'd like to think that all men are equal and all reference to religious affiliations has no place in our egalitarian society but evidently we have a problem with muslims.
Yes, the predominant majority of muslims are peace loving and upstanding people. I know many and am on good terms with them.
Nevertheless I find most of them sympathizers of what we term "islamic extremism". There is no way to foresee when and which of them is going become radical and descend into terrorism. Is there a way to protect ourselves other than reducing their presence among us to the absolute minimum?
Yes, the predominant majority of muslims are peace loving and upstanding people. I know many and am on good terms with them.
Nevertheless I find most of them sympathizers of what we term "islamic extremism". There is no way to foresee when and which of them is going become radical and descend into terrorism. Is there a way to protect ourselves other than reducing their presence among us to the absolute minimum?
10
Never forget that Freedom of Religion is part of the American Constitution!
Get busy and read that document sometime!
Get busy and read that document sometime!
Until America bans guns from angry young men, we will never be safe.
Until America bans Saudis Arabians, we will never be safe from citizens of the country most responsible for 9/11.
Until America stops using fear and starts using facts to set policy, we will never be safe.
Until America bans Saudis Arabians, we will never be safe from citizens of the country most responsible for 9/11.
Until America stops using fear and starts using facts to set policy, we will never be safe.
2
Twice the USA came to the rescue of the oppressed in Europe. To a significant extent, that was because of its belief in equality of opportunity and in Freedom and Democracy. These values are, for better or for worse, born out of the Christian tradition that has for many generations been the guiding force of the American People. I can see little evidence that this force is present to any degree in the countries of Islam or indeed in the religion itself.
Besides, any nation has the absolute and unalienable right to decide who it sees as an acceptable addition to its people. No-one can claim the right to immigrate anywhere.
Besides, any nation has the absolute and unalienable right to decide who it sees as an acceptable addition to its people. No-one can claim the right to immigrate anywhere.
11
Trump is 100% correct on this. People coming from countries without a well-functioning civic and security architecture require an extra level of screening.
Seriously, think of most the countries involved in the proposed travel ban: Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, and Libya. (Iran is a functioning society, but also a self-proclaimed enemy of the United States. Enhanced screening in this case is debatable.) These are failed states with little or no central administrative control and a paucity of accurate records. This is why additional screening is required.
Pretending that this is a "Muslim ban" is simply willful ignorance.
Seriously, think of most the countries involved in the proposed travel ban: Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, and Libya. (Iran is a functioning society, but also a self-proclaimed enemy of the United States. Enhanced screening in this case is debatable.) These are failed states with little or no central administrative control and a paucity of accurate records. This is why additional screening is required.
Pretending that this is a "Muslim ban" is simply willful ignorance.
21
Keep up the good work Mr. President.
15
I love all the unsubstantiated assumptions about what others are thinking. We obviously have a lot of mind readers out here. So much for intellectual discourse or honest debate.
2
Re: Congressman Higgins June 4 Facebook post
"Every conceivable measure should be engaged to hunt them down. Hunt them, identify them, and kill them. Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all."
Isn't this illegal? Seriously so?
"Every conceivable measure should be engaged to hunt them down. Hunt them, identify them, and kill them. Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all."
Isn't this illegal? Seriously so?
Nor should he.
Although I happen to think that it is uselessly short-sighted to suggest that security can be achieved by excluding people based on their place of birth, the US Congress -did- in fact write legislation which expressly grants to the President both the authority and the discretion to do so. The President chose to act strictly in accordance with what that enabling legislation said – and cited those sections of the US Code as he also used words, such as "proclaim," that are used in it.
The District Courts have no Constitutional authority whatever to "play President," as they continue to insist upon doing, and, for that matter, it is not up to the Supreme Court to decide, either. The Constitution (Article 1 Section 8) expressly grants to Congress "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," and Congress may delegate to the President such powers and authority as they "chuse."
The term, "muslim," in this context, is not simply a religious one, and nothing concerning "freedom of religion" can be construed to negate the authority of Article 1 Section 8 nor to insert the Judiciary into the role of either the Legislature or the Executive. Both of which things they baldly seek to do.
Our Founders realized that the Judiciary would "stealthily" seek to expand its powers, as they have since done. In my view, a Constitutional Amendment is needed to settle this matter: to formally set what is – and isn't – the role of the Judicial Branch relative to the other two.
Although I happen to think that it is uselessly short-sighted to suggest that security can be achieved by excluding people based on their place of birth, the US Congress -did- in fact write legislation which expressly grants to the President both the authority and the discretion to do so. The President chose to act strictly in accordance with what that enabling legislation said – and cited those sections of the US Code as he also used words, such as "proclaim," that are used in it.
The District Courts have no Constitutional authority whatever to "play President," as they continue to insist upon doing, and, for that matter, it is not up to the Supreme Court to decide, either. The Constitution (Article 1 Section 8) expressly grants to Congress "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," and Congress may delegate to the President such powers and authority as they "chuse."
The term, "muslim," in this context, is not simply a religious one, and nothing concerning "freedom of religion" can be construed to negate the authority of Article 1 Section 8 nor to insert the Judiciary into the role of either the Legislature or the Executive. Both of which things they baldly seek to do.
Our Founders realized that the Judiciary would "stealthily" seek to expand its powers, as they have since done. In my view, a Constitutional Amendment is needed to settle this matter: to formally set what is – and isn't – the role of the Judicial Branch relative to the other two.
9
My Jewish grandparents emigrated to America to avoid persecution and worse in Russia around the turn of the 20th century. Though we experienced some discrimination in this country, especially in the South, we were far better off. Almost all of their grandchildren have college degrees, with at least one having a graduate degree as well. Among the great-grandchildren are a master's level speech therapist, a lawyer, an aeronautical engineer, a computer consultant, and an artist.
I love America because of our diversity. I learn from others who have different religions and different ways of thinking.
Banning Muslims solely because of their religion or through any veiled reason that amounts to religion is antithetical to the values of this country.
I love America because of our diversity. I learn from others who have different religions and different ways of thinking.
Banning Muslims solely because of their religion or through any veiled reason that amounts to religion is antithetical to the values of this country.
6
How many Russian Jews flew planes into buildings, set off bombs in civilian settings, shot and killed people at random with automatic weapons, went on stabbing sprees and ran people down with trucks?
10
Trump's insidious, incipient Muslim ban is testament to the extraordinary harm a sitting president can do while circumventing laws, courts and media scrutiny. But the threat of anti-Muslim, anti-American interventions perpetrated by Trump and his minions is far greater than the ban.
Consider that (i) Trump plays to the Wahabi and Salafist supporting Saudis, military dictatorship in Egypt, condemns Qatar inviting its blockade based upon false news planted by the UAE. (ii) Civilian deaths increase significantly in the US's wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan as the President abdicates war making to the military assuring a growing pool of anti-US feeling. Add to this (iii) Homeland Security's expanding efforts to break up families and deport non-criminal illegal immigrants, (iv) the effort to gut the State Department's soft development and diplomatic arms and (v) proposed restrictions on much needed, high skilled immigrants. But potentially the WORST threat of all may be (vi) Trump's threatened curtailment of foreign university and graduate students that are an essential pillar of the financial well-being of higher education and an extraordinarily important venue for inculcating the virtues of liberal democracy.
Trump is not just creating a leadership void, but rather a black hole that is destroying everything good about American Exceptionalism. And it is only going to get worse unless we can stop it...
Trump's toxic America..
Consider that (i) Trump plays to the Wahabi and Salafist supporting Saudis, military dictatorship in Egypt, condemns Qatar inviting its blockade based upon false news planted by the UAE. (ii) Civilian deaths increase significantly in the US's wars in the Middle East and Afghanistan as the President abdicates war making to the military assuring a growing pool of anti-US feeling. Add to this (iii) Homeland Security's expanding efforts to break up families and deport non-criminal illegal immigrants, (iv) the effort to gut the State Department's soft development and diplomatic arms and (v) proposed restrictions on much needed, high skilled immigrants. But potentially the WORST threat of all may be (vi) Trump's threatened curtailment of foreign university and graduate students that are an essential pillar of the financial well-being of higher education and an extraordinarily important venue for inculcating the virtues of liberal democracy.
Trump is not just creating a leadership void, but rather a black hole that is destroying everything good about American Exceptionalism. And it is only going to get worse unless we can stop it...
Trump's toxic America..
3
I wonder is the number of applications for visas has gone down too. After all, Trump and his base have made it abundantly clear that the United States does not welcome foreigners as it used to. The United States has become a land of unwelcoming, fearful racists. Who would even want to come here? Sad.
30
"Who would even want to come here?"
Fewer and fewer people, that's who.
Our astute President apparently isn't aware that tourism is a major US export. (Oh, I forgot: his own hotels and clubs are immune to a downturn in visitors from abroad.)
Fewer and fewer people, that's who.
Our astute President apparently isn't aware that tourism is a major US export. (Oh, I forgot: his own hotels and clubs are immune to a downturn in visitors from abroad.)
3
If you lived in NYC, you'd think you were in the Middle East or Mexico. Cut the crocodile tears. So phony.
1
Trump has convinced citizens that the US will be a better place with fewer Muslims in it. He has not encouraged in any way cooperation across the isle. He continues to appeal to the dark side of human nature rather than challenge citizens to dredge up their better selves. The notion of the "common good" is tumbling down the talus pile principles such as "do unto others" and "love they neighbor", once bedrock values now replaced by radical notions of individualism and isolation. I am surprised that Afghan team made it though. How many others did not. Imagine the outrage if they had won the competition!
4
Trump has not done that. It is Islam that has....
The US military has active actions (or supports regular and irregular military actions) in at least Libya, Somalia, Kenya, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iran. Many people in these countries, even if not radical Islamic terrorists themselves may have been affected by US military or allied actions that would make them hostile to the US. We have a duty to be careful, and it makes sense to me that immigration from these countries should at the very least be rigorous and err on the side of exclusion, regardless of the religion or demographic of the individuals involved. During the Cold War the US was exceptionally vigilant and restrictive on immigration from Communist governed countries and rightly so - without generating massive 'anti-Slav' or 'anti-Eastern European' concerns. I believe that Trump may well be anti-Muslim, but that does not make restrictions on immigration from countries where the US is actively engaged in combat directly or through proxies, an irrational or racist or religiously biased event. There is no right for any foreign national to immigrate to the US, outside of existing procedures and laws and those are subject to change and enforcement discretion by the US Government according to statute. Good Americans can support these restrictions on immigration from these countries WITHOUT being anti-Muslim, or racist, even if Trump is. The policies are still sound, and rational, regardless of the motivation Trump my have.
5
These insidious behaviors on the part of T and his cohorts need more front page, large print coverage by the legitimate news media. Please continue to focus on what T is doing under the radar and pay less attention to his tweets. Please. The NYT is part of our democracy and you are at your best when you do report the dull but even more dangerous aspects of this administration rather than the entertainment factor of his tweets. Thank you.
7
The article uses words like "insidious" and "xenophobia" but not "terrorism" or "threat." I thought the orders were overkill to try to solve a problem, but, nevertheless, he had a right to do it, as I think the S. Ct. will find. I can't respect the claim by the plaintiffs when their attorneys argue that the order would have been okay if Obama had issued it. Either we have a government of laws, or men, and if it is not laws but men, then we are in big trouble. In the meantime, this too seems another creation of the "resistance at any cost" and I hope it fails. We should balance our long tradition of taking refugees and allowing travelers with the care necessary in this day and age to prevent terrorism, and I think we do for the most part - though no country is invulnerable. But, most of the decisions are for the president to make, even an unpopular one and even if you or I think there are better ways. The orders, while overkill, were neither insidious or xenophobic. Judge shopping on the West Coast and relentless personal attacks on Trump and his family seem more insidious to me (not that he didn't do more than his part in staining our political system). I'd likely never vote for Trump. But, I'd likely never vote for anyone who was an active part of the "resistance" either.
12
For the past 15 years, well funded hate groups have spread misinformation about Muslims and their religion. Quotes from the Koran and Hadith are cherry picked out of context and presented as fact. Slanderous lies claiming that Islam proscribes FGM (not true) or that Muslims seek to enforce Shariah law have spread like wildfire. Although there are thousands of rapes and murders that occur in Europe yearly, the small number of rapes committed by refugees are highly publicized and covered widely in the far right media including Breitbart and Drudge. This creates the impression that the only rapes in Europe are being committed by Muslims. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of Islam would know that a devout Muslim will never rape anyone as this is strictly forbidden in Islam.
Unfortunately, once urban myths take hold, it is very hard to dispel them. Muslims here will endure discrimination for many years to come.
Unfortunately, once urban myths take hold, it is very hard to dispel them. Muslims here will endure discrimination for many years to come.
2
And although there are thousands of rapes and assaults that occur in the USA, T & the far right media dramatically describe and focus on crimes committed by immigrants, especially illegals, in order to distort and exaggerate the facts, the threat and fuel fear.
This tactic feeds the white supremacy ideology and the immigration policy described in this piece.
This tactic feeds the white supremacy ideology and the immigration policy described in this piece.
2
How did you get people who know right from wrong to do wrong at the bidding of a self serving, egomaniac who prevaricates at every turn. Looks like the people of the world will know for sure, our streets are not "paved with gold".
It is a disgrace, the Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves. Religious freedom is a right and an honor in America! trump (deliberately small t) is treading all over that.
I always believed that to be an American, born or naturalized was the greatest gift and it would be in America that the world would come together. Now, I fear it is where the world will come apart.
It is a disgrace, the Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves. Religious freedom is a right and an honor in America! trump (deliberately small t) is treading all over that.
I always believed that to be an American, born or naturalized was the greatest gift and it would be in America that the world would come together. Now, I fear it is where the world will come apart.
3
The real problem with bigoted bans like the Muslim ban is that it opens the door for excluding other groups. There is no excuse for picking on Muslims who as a group are not as dangerous as our own domestic terrorists. However, if you can exclude Muslims, who is next? LGBT? Jews? African Blacks? Eastern Religious believers? Anyone Hispanic (really this has already started with deportations)?
This is the time that we as Americans have to decide whether we are weak, small-minded reactionaries or whether we are a Great Nation. History will judge us, but the judging will not be just esoteric. When you exclude people based on bigotry, you also miss out on talent and may in fact scare away existing talent.
Intellectual resources are our future as an economy based on services, so if we push away academics, entrepreneurs, and thinkers based on bigotry, we will experience a brain drain. That will lead directly to the decline of the US over a generation.
It is our choice as voters!
This is the time that we as Americans have to decide whether we are weak, small-minded reactionaries or whether we are a Great Nation. History will judge us, but the judging will not be just esoteric. When you exclude people based on bigotry, you also miss out on talent and may in fact scare away existing talent.
Intellectual resources are our future as an economy based on services, so if we push away academics, entrepreneurs, and thinkers based on bigotry, we will experience a brain drain. That will lead directly to the decline of the US over a generation.
It is our choice as voters!
6
Discrimination with a below the radar "d" is still discrimination--thought this is not allowed in the USA, at least it was when America was great. Trump is anti-America, at least all the noble values of America. Trump and family are crass.
3
I didn't understand from the beginning why Trump went the ban route and didn't simply slow the issuance of visas which is indisputably an administration prerogative. It is probably because his objective was not really to restrain immigration of Muslims but to make a splash with his base. Objectively, the current tactic is more effective, regardless of whether it is morally right or wrong.
3
This was all about making a splash with his base, nothing more. If he'd bothered to look at the facts, he'd know that the U.S. had already been taking a cautious approach to such immigration.
1
How is this different from the past in which the State Department arbitrarily refused visas to anyone and any group it wanted to and there has been no recourse by foreigners to challenge the refusal? Why is there such a clamor now about rejecting visas for Muslims when there are plenty of groups that have not been able to get visas that are not Muslims: e.g., Thais? The State Dept even charges an onerous sum to apply for a US visa and then after rejecting nearly all the applicants, will not refund the payments.
11
The name Trump is synonymous with Hate. Hate for minorities. Hate for those of different color. Hate for different religions. Hate for different opinions. And not least of all, Hate for those who aren't Rich. I mean REALLY RICH ... If the Koch brothers aren't giving you a dinner party this weekend, you're not his kind of people.
If you're reading this and you fall into any of his Hate categories, Trump will either be coming for you next, or relegating you to a life of great uncertainty. You simply aren't important.
In Russia, where Trump's favorite ruler lives, men die much younger than they do here. The economy is bad, those who speak out face a death sentence, and healthcare is so bad Putin and his Oligarchs go to foreign countries like France, or they don't live in Russia at all. In Russia, Putin is the only real law and corruption is a way of life. That's what Trump wants the U.S. to become. That's the ultimate reason why Trump's ties to Russia are important.
To the Trumps, the rest of us aren't worth education or healthcare. Or clean food or water. Or anything. You're "animals" his son says. It's what his father taught him to believe.
In truth, it is the Trumps and their programs filled with Hate that should be banned. They don't belong in America. We are a modern, diverse, educated country, that believes in freedom for all ... whether you want to be rich or be a fisherman. And we believe in equal protection under the law.
If you're reading this and you fall into any of his Hate categories, Trump will either be coming for you next, or relegating you to a life of great uncertainty. You simply aren't important.
In Russia, where Trump's favorite ruler lives, men die much younger than they do here. The economy is bad, those who speak out face a death sentence, and healthcare is so bad Putin and his Oligarchs go to foreign countries like France, or they don't live in Russia at all. In Russia, Putin is the only real law and corruption is a way of life. That's what Trump wants the U.S. to become. That's the ultimate reason why Trump's ties to Russia are important.
To the Trumps, the rest of us aren't worth education or healthcare. Or clean food or water. Or anything. You're "animals" his son says. It's what his father taught him to believe.
In truth, it is the Trumps and their programs filled with Hate that should be banned. They don't belong in America. We are a modern, diverse, educated country, that believes in freedom for all ... whether you want to be rich or be a fisherman. And we believe in equal protection under the law.
5
It's a shame that Trump's ancestors were allowed in this country. If we'd known then what we know now, that Trump is one of the most destructive people ever to occupy the White House perhaps we could have sent his ancestors back on the grounds of future danger to the country. Isn't that what he wants to do with all Muslims except those from Saudi Arabia?
Many Americans are alive today because their ancestors fled from countries where their lives were in danger. They fled from Nazi Europe, snuck out of Soviet Russia, left Ireland because of a famine, came here to escape religious persecution. Some of them were criminals or became criminals or their descendants were criminals. But most became proud, law abiding Americans who raised children who were the same. And while not everyone is a Mark Zuckerberg or a Steve Jobs we also aren't all Timothy McVeighs.
Keeping immigrants out isn't keeping America safe. It's depriving us of new citizens who can add much to our country. They can appreciate America in ways we can't because we were born here. Fear of the other, taken to the extremes that Trump is going will not make us safer. It will make America a lesser country for her citizens. Then again, Trump, in his well demonstrated ignorance doesn't seem to care. Nor do his supporters.
Many Americans are alive today because their ancestors fled from countries where their lives were in danger. They fled from Nazi Europe, snuck out of Soviet Russia, left Ireland because of a famine, came here to escape religious persecution. Some of them were criminals or became criminals or their descendants were criminals. But most became proud, law abiding Americans who raised children who were the same. And while not everyone is a Mark Zuckerberg or a Steve Jobs we also aren't all Timothy McVeighs.
Keeping immigrants out isn't keeping America safe. It's depriving us of new citizens who can add much to our country. They can appreciate America in ways we can't because we were born here. Fear of the other, taken to the extremes that Trump is going will not make us safer. It will make America a lesser country for her citizens. Then again, Trump, in his well demonstrated ignorance doesn't seem to care. Nor do his supporters.
5
"....endure invasive questioning and prolonged processing times"? Oh, the humanity! To "endure" such a thing for something so good. Good grief.
8
Just drop the theatrics, and the hypocrisy. Sell the visas, to the highest bidders. Those are the " right" people. They know best, for everyone, right, Donald????
4
Isn't that we kind of have already with visas that the tech industry asks for and gets?
5
Certainly Trump's xenophobia and immigration ban blocking Muslims from entering the United States violates numerous laws and runs counter to the history and traditions of the United States. The United States is a nation of immigrants. Their educations, talents, hard work, ideas, innovations, and cultures enrich our nation and contribute to the prosperity of our country.
Trump's grandfather, Friedrich (Fred) Trump, by all accounts a rather shady character, was deported from Germany in 1905 after losing his German citizenship by dodging the draft for military service. He arrived in the U.S. and settled in Canada, creating a modest fortune by running bars and brothels.
Donald Trump's hypocrisy is glaringly evident as he denies immigration status to well-qualified foreigners, even as he and his family have benefited so hugely from generous U.S. immigration policies in the past.
Trump's grandfather, Friedrich (Fred) Trump, by all accounts a rather shady character, was deported from Germany in 1905 after losing his German citizenship by dodging the draft for military service. He arrived in the U.S. and settled in Canada, creating a modest fortune by running bars and brothels.
Donald Trump's hypocrisy is glaringly evident as he denies immigration status to well-qualified foreigners, even as he and his family have benefited so hugely from generous U.S. immigration policies in the past.
7
If we continue to have unlimited Muslim immigration into our country I'm afraid that eventually there will be a backlash, as is happening within Europe. And that could lead to a horrendous outcome. Limiting Muslim immigration is prudent. Allow some but not unfettered amounts. Canada's all in, let them apply there.
11
We NEVER had unlimited Muslim immigration into this country. Ever. Trump is lying to you when he says so!
1
As news breaks that the U.S. has killed over 2,000 civilians with airstrikes in the Middle East region and we are "on track" to double that number....and whether or not you are in favor of the Muslim ban (both very deep and concerning discussions) the crux of this article is a bold warning to us as Americans. We are doing exactly what any good magician requires in order to perform his best trick. We are watching the hand in front of us while deception and trickery work behind the scenes to fool us.
Trump possesses no shred of presidential acumen, is crass and pompous and wild-minded, at best, but his one true talent is to deftly deceive and manipulate those who will feed his power and ego hunger. While he puts on his show of anger and rage against the courts regarding this Muslim ban (call it what it truly is) he is quietly orchestrating other channels to carry out his personal vendetta. His own fears are the steam powering this. Importantly...we are ALL affected.
We need to know this. We need to be diligent and stop these patterns that silently undermine our democratic values. That's the most frightening part of this article.
The real message is that Trump is so driven to meet his agenda that he'll do whatever is needed to achieve his ego-driven vision of how our country should be regulated/traded/run. His maniacal agenda is NOT focused on this one issue. Beware. The undermining of our freedoms is in full swing and there are hundreds of operatives willing to help him.
Trump possesses no shred of presidential acumen, is crass and pompous and wild-minded, at best, but his one true talent is to deftly deceive and manipulate those who will feed his power and ego hunger. While he puts on his show of anger and rage against the courts regarding this Muslim ban (call it what it truly is) he is quietly orchestrating other channels to carry out his personal vendetta. His own fears are the steam powering this. Importantly...we are ALL affected.
We need to know this. We need to be diligent and stop these patterns that silently undermine our democratic values. That's the most frightening part of this article.
The real message is that Trump is so driven to meet his agenda that he'll do whatever is needed to achieve his ego-driven vision of how our country should be regulated/traded/run. His maniacal agenda is NOT focused on this one issue. Beware. The undermining of our freedoms is in full swing and there are hundreds of operatives willing to help him.
6
This particular op-ed reads like Islamic propaganda designed to stir up anti-American sentiments, and undermine our efforts to ensure safe and legal immigration into this country. And it works. Those who agree with and are persuaded by it in these comments are the Trump haters, or "progressives" by another name.
And why do the ones who wrote this piece want to ease vetting on foreign born Muslims from countries that are unstable, which have a history of extremism, are home to terrorist groups themselves, and many of whose citizens have joined ISIS and other Muslim terrorist groups in other countries? If anything, the vetting should be more extreme, the hurdles higher, and more Muslim majority countries should be added to the list. For, while most Muslims may not be our enemies, substantial numbers of them are - and they pose a threat to our country, just as they do in Europe. To deny this, as many "progressives" do, is to either be blind to reality, or to willfully be encouraging the admittance of Muslim terrorists into our country, while ignoring the safety of our own citizens.
And President Trump is not anti-Islamic. He is anti-Islamic terrorism. There's a difference. Why do the authors and many if the so-called "progressives" in this commentary willfully lie about this, saying being against Muslim terrorism is the same as being anti-Muslim?
And why do the ones who wrote this piece want to ease vetting on foreign born Muslims from countries that are unstable, which have a history of extremism, are home to terrorist groups themselves, and many of whose citizens have joined ISIS and other Muslim terrorist groups in other countries? If anything, the vetting should be more extreme, the hurdles higher, and more Muslim majority countries should be added to the list. For, while most Muslims may not be our enemies, substantial numbers of them are - and they pose a threat to our country, just as they do in Europe. To deny this, as many "progressives" do, is to either be blind to reality, or to willfully be encouraging the admittance of Muslim terrorists into our country, while ignoring the safety of our own citizens.
And President Trump is not anti-Islamic. He is anti-Islamic terrorism. There's a difference. Why do the authors and many if the so-called "progressives" in this commentary willfully lie about this, saying being against Muslim terrorism is the same as being anti-Muslim?
14
The perpetrators of 9/11-- the cause of our now firmly in place police state-- were from Saudi Arabia. Yet trump does a sword dance with the saudis. I am not a rah-rah immigration person, but I think your logic (and trump's) is way off here.
2
You know, the one thing that Liberals and Conservatives have missed is the fact that a larger percentage of young adults from better educated higher income families are more likely to be radicalized.
I am not saying that getting a good education is the problem. But I do believe that there is a serious problem with our education system, including the teachers/professors who teach our children!
Liberals love to slam Conservatives. The love to slam Trump. The love to complain about travel restrictions, which are similar to the one Obama used, while ignoring the fact that it is their children who fit the demographic being recruited by terrorists!
http://money.cnn.com/.../isis-recruit.../index.html
I am not saying that getting a good education is the problem. But I do believe that there is a serious problem with our education system, including the teachers/professors who teach our children!
Liberals love to slam Conservatives. The love to slam Trump. The love to complain about travel restrictions, which are similar to the one Obama used, while ignoring the fact that it is their children who fit the demographic being recruited by terrorists!
http://money.cnn.com/.../isis-recruit.../index.html
9
If you are a foreigner on foreign soil you have no Constitutional rights. Our Constitution is for US.
You want to enter our country? Endeavor to do so legally. Make an application at the US embassy in your country. Profess to want to learn how to speak our language, learn our culture and history, drop your native costumes and headgear. Don't even think that your laws and rules and ways should supersede ours.
If you cannot do this then America is not for you. It's like a private club, you gain admission at the option of the existing members in their sole discretion.
As far as the illegals go, what's the argument in favor of allowing people to sneak into the country?
You want to enter our country? Endeavor to do so legally. Make an application at the US embassy in your country. Profess to want to learn how to speak our language, learn our culture and history, drop your native costumes and headgear. Don't even think that your laws and rules and ways should supersede ours.
If you cannot do this then America is not for you. It's like a private club, you gain admission at the option of the existing members in their sole discretion.
As far as the illegals go, what's the argument in favor of allowing people to sneak into the country?
21
This article is about people who are trying to enter legally, nothing about illegal aliens. Do you realize that not all people who enter this country, coming from any country, do not do so to live here, but for business, educational or recreational reasons for a temporary period? Do you realize the amount of money they put into our economy and the jobs they support and the state and local taxes they pay? Do you realize that by limiting this population for no good reason but undue fear you are contracting the US economy and its tax base? That decease is making America great again? That decrease creates jobs? Start thinking with more than your sense of fear, use reason and logic for a change! Those people will go to other countries and spend their money in their economies if they are not welcome here, thereby making Them greater than the American economy.
1
BTW, not completely correct; any Alien, Foreigner, Non-US Citizen in the USA has some Constitutional rights afforded them. E.G., due process. Established by intent, and supported by prior court precedent challenge.
1
Thank God for the ACLU and alert and skilled state Attorneys General. Even the poorly- kept secrets will be challenged in front of sane courts.
2
You are more likely to get struck by lightening than to be involved in a terrorist attack. And lightening strikes are a statistical dot compared to death by auto accident.
Has the US been reduced to a mob lacking common sense?
Ban all automobiles!
Has the US been reduced to a mob lacking common sense?
Ban all automobiles!
9
Prudent people will still come indoors during a rainstorm even though lightning strikes are a "statistical dot," so why shouldn't Trump be prudent and protect the nation from Islamic terror? Until there is a reliable method of separating out Muslim terrorists, the entire group of Muslims will face this discrimination.
3
When they do not oppose openly and en masse, Muslims who consider themselves moderate (whatever that means) and law abiding, could be as guilty as ISIS with its destructive propaganda machine.
Unless 'moderate' Muslims collectively, forcefully and openly renounce all that extremist Muslims preach, like the Wahabists do globally, from Saudi Arabia and ISIS does by implementing Wahabist teachings, there will be no safe place in the West against terrorism.
Law abiding Muslims will have to crush this pernicious ideology with a counter ideology of respect, tolerance and compassion.
Unfortunately, restricting Muslims from entering the US will not solve the terrorist problem, because everyone of those attacks to date were perpetrated by Muslims, who were radicalized by those ALREADY in the US, and some who were US citizens.!
Unless 'moderate' Muslims collectively, forcefully and openly renounce all that extremist Muslims preach, like the Wahabists do globally, from Saudi Arabia and ISIS does by implementing Wahabist teachings, there will be no safe place in the West against terrorism.
Law abiding Muslims will have to crush this pernicious ideology with a counter ideology of respect, tolerance and compassion.
Unfortunately, restricting Muslims from entering the US will not solve the terrorist problem, because everyone of those attacks to date were perpetrated by Muslims, who were radicalized by those ALREADY in the US, and some who were US citizens.!
8
Did you vigorously protest Roof's killings in the SC church? Did you protest McVeigh when he blew up the building in Oklahoma? Then dont try to hold another group to standards you are not willing to follow. That is just hypocricy.
2
gretab, whoever you are, your logic is obtuse: Comparing a one- man random act with a globally evil ideology that systematically radicalizes young people and encourages them to be indiscriminate killers is a non-sequitur.
2
Disfavored country = any country that doesn't have a Trump branded building.
6
Perhaps any disgruntled Muslim not being allowed in should take their complaint to the jihadists. I don't know why America is tying itself into knots over this.
9
Until this abomination of a White House is gone with all its greedy corruption and arrogant self-entitlement, this will only continue and increase...the swamp is quicksand for American principles...
3
Our sense of greatness as a nation was built on the efforts and sacrifices of Americans during the great turmoil of the first and second world wars. Those efforts and sacrifices set the stage for how we were perceived from outside - by people from Asia, from Europe, from Africa. However, starting from the time of the Vietnam War, things have been going in reverse. Our direction as a nation and our actions in the world have led us, as a nation, away from that high moral ground. Maybe this is just the cycle of history and our path is inevitable, but I don't choose to believe that. I think we always have choices. As a nation, we have been making very bad ones in the recent past and are losing out both nationally and internationally as a result. Perhaps this administration and Congress represent true rock bottom... I can't imagine we could sink any deeper. I hope the only way from here is up, but if we as a people don't actively choose to do better, we could get comfortable at the bottom.
Banning immigration based on religion is simply one more way that we lose our standing in the world.... let's all work on trying to do better - that starts at the grassroots level by thinking deeply about issues and choosing better representatives and by thinking and choosing to do better every single day of our lives. We did it before. We can do it again.
Banning immigration based on religion is simply one more way that we lose our standing in the world.... let's all work on trying to do better - that starts at the grassroots level by thinking deeply about issues and choosing better representatives and by thinking and choosing to do better every single day of our lives. We did it before. We can do it again.
11
I really don't care if adherents of an ideology I find profoundly distasteful do not like my country. I'd be horrified if they did!
6
What does your opinion of someone's ideology have to do with a ban based on religion? If the administration decides they don't like Buddhists, would you be ok with banning them? Decisions based on personal distaste have no place here... the entire basis of founding this nation was to welcome people regardless of their religious beliefs. That does not preclude a thorough vetting process to check carefully who we admit to our nation - obviously if they are openly and violently anti-American, we don't want them - but that vetting process has no place for personal beliefs like yours.
4
There is nothing wrong with vetting people who come to the US. Nor is anything wrong with subjecting Muslims to greater scrutiny. Sorry but when 90 per cent of terrorist acts worldwide are committed in the name of Islam, it'd be madness not to. This article is on the same page as the one about radicalization of Indonesian Muslims who come as domestic workers to Hong Kong. The Telegraph (a U.K. newspaper) today publishes a harrowing account of a German girl who converted to Islam and went to join ISIS in Mosul. Such examples can be multiplied indefinitely. I'm sorry but when I see a burka- or even a hijab-wearing woman at the airport, I keep my distance - and I have many secular Muslim friends who would find nothing offensive about this statement. However, the Trump administration's attempt to profile Muslims is so ham-handed as to be ineffective at best, damaging at worst. Not letting an Afghani girl team partcipate in a science competition? Seriously? These are exactly the people we want to encourage to get rid of the scourge of radical Islam.
6
Let's vet white supremacists here in the US, since they are the ones initiating terrorism in the US.
5
Are you saying that the victims in Mosul were raped, enslaved and killed by the white supremacists? Or that the lives of suicide terrorists' victims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt and Pakistan don't matter? Or that the perpetrators of these atrocities should have a free entrance to the US? If not, what's your point? White supremacists are already here and if they pose a terrorist threat, the FBI can handle them.
3
I just saw the "Rise of the Planet of Apes." In the movie the apes just want to be left in peace and find a place to call home where they are not harassed by men, mostly white. A flu has caused many apes to become more intelligent and many humans to lose speech. The latter are killed by a group of human supremacists (mostly white and American) in order to purify homo sapiens for world dominance.
After much violence, the apes achieve their goal of a homeland while all the white men die in a military attack on each other, and a subsequent avalanche. The apes I noted are diverse simians such as chimps, bonobos, orangutans, gorillas, and one human girl who lost her speech but learns to sign.
I wonder what the alt-right thinks about this movie?
After much violence, the apes achieve their goal of a homeland while all the white men die in a military attack on each other, and a subsequent avalanche. The apes I noted are diverse simians such as chimps, bonobos, orangutans, gorillas, and one human girl who lost her speech but learns to sign.
I wonder what the alt-right thinks about this movie?
2
For those commenters who disagree with a Muslim ban I suggest you contact the DNC as early as today and tell them to quit wasting time and energy on Russia-gate and perhaps start looking forward to the coming election.
Tell them to run candidates who ignite passion in the voters (Sanders) and who aren't part of the status quo. The election season will begin in 18 months or fewer and I personally have not seen or heard from a single viable candidate.
Or, we can all just moan.
Tell them to run candidates who ignite passion in the voters (Sanders) and who aren't part of the status quo. The election season will begin in 18 months or fewer and I personally have not seen or heard from a single viable candidate.
Or, we can all just moan.
3
The American people have spoken, overwhelmingly. Those in disagreement, will get their chance in 7-1/2 years. By then, at the least America will have undergone a 7-year Jubilee; leaving the country fertile for bounty.
2
Thank you for demonstrating Trump's "alternative reality" and "alternative facts," as practiced by his followers.
You must mean that the Russians have spoken.
You seem overly optimistic about the Orange one's chances of remaining in power.
I'm totally pessimistic about the course being taken by our country. It holds very dire consequences for us and for the planet.
You seem overly optimistic about the Orange one's chances of remaining in power.
I'm totally pessimistic about the course being taken by our country. It holds very dire consequences for us and for the planet.
4
Haha! Good one!
If Girl Scouts were blowing themselves up in the middle east and driving trucks into crowds of people in the U.K. and France, we'd apply these restrictions to the Girl Scouts.
What would people have authorities do, put up a sign reading "NO SUICIDE BOMBING?" and "NO DRIVING VEHICLES INTO CROWDS?" at borders?
Would you prefer one religious zealot make it into our country, blow up Times Square, then it REALLY gets bad with the restrictions and the creation of an even more repressive big brother state?
How about this - if 5 years go by and no person kills themselves and dozens or hundreds of others in the spirit of Jihad, then we'll look at loosening travel restrictions up, deal?
Ask any soldier deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan if we should just let 'em in.
What would people have authorities do, put up a sign reading "NO SUICIDE BOMBING?" and "NO DRIVING VEHICLES INTO CROWDS?" at borders?
Would you prefer one religious zealot make it into our country, blow up Times Square, then it REALLY gets bad with the restrictions and the creation of an even more repressive big brother state?
How about this - if 5 years go by and no person kills themselves and dozens or hundreds of others in the spirit of Jihad, then we'll look at loosening travel restrictions up, deal?
Ask any soldier deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan if we should just let 'em in.
13
Timothy McVeigh? Bundy? We've had more ex-military and white Christian mass murderers in the USA than other ethnic killers. Ever. More women are raped by relatives and family friends than any other group. Gonna ban uncles too? Do you live in a FACT FREE ZONE? Because your remarks suggest that you do. Five bodies of women unearthed in a yard in Ohio this year. Four kids killed in Pennsylvania. Burned and Buried. Not by Muslims. Get a Brain.
9
My God, what was I thinking? You've convinced me, sir. Especially with "Get A Brain." Thank you for pointing out that I didn't have a brain when I published the above.
Let 'em in, then. All of them. No visas, no passports, no checking. Winchester East has the right idea.
Happy, Winchester?
Let 'em in, then. All of them. No visas, no passports, no checking. Winchester East has the right idea.
Happy, Winchester?
6
Did I say let 'em all in? Hardly. Simply that facts don't support greater security by banning anyone based on religion or country of origin.
My brain didn't direct me to make any of the suggestions you tossed out.
Get a brain. Then learn how to use it.
My brain didn't direct me to make any of the suggestions you tossed out.
Get a brain. Then learn how to use it.
2
It's not just a Muslim Ban. My 22 year old sister goes to the US every year to see a family she was an au pair for: pocket money + english practice in exchange for summer childcare and spanish exposure for the kids. THis year she and a large number of Mexicans on the same flight arriving at an airport in the US were hauled into an interrogation room. 17 hours of grilling and waiting later, she signs a statement with declarations she never made ("sign it or we'll throw you in jail") and she has had her visa revoked and banned from entering the US for 5 years.... so who gets harmed here? Some US kids who love spending the summer with a responsible young adult, and a young woman from the wrong country having an enriching experience. And if the visit goea ahead is the US harmed? Not so much.
Land of the free and home of the brave indeed.
Land of the free and home of the brave indeed.
17
"A Muslim ban ... simply has no place in our country." I would edit that conclusion to: People like trump have no place in our country.
10
If I were Muslim, I would not want to come to the US when all the haters are in power. When America gets its hate on, minorities had better lie low.
4
It is shameful that in the land of the freedom of religion all Muslims are now targeted as terrorists without any evidence whatsoever to show that. The vast majority of Muslims are decent people just like the rest of us, who condemn the criminal, political acts of the terrorists. These terrorists of ISIS do not represent modern Islam; they take the worst passages of the Qu'ran and interpret them to suit their political agenda. (Please note that there are similar passages in the Old Testament.)
Of course we need to try to keep terrorists out, but I doubt any increase in our already-strict vetting will do that. In addition American nuts and crazies have killed far more Americans than Muslim terrorists have.
We, as a country with freedom of religion, need to understand that we cannot classify over a billion people based on the deeds of a relatively few criminals.
We need to remain true to the ideals expressed in our Constitution.
Of course we need to try to keep terrorists out, but I doubt any increase in our already-strict vetting will do that. In addition American nuts and crazies have killed far more Americans than Muslim terrorists have.
We, as a country with freedom of religion, need to understand that we cannot classify over a billion people based on the deeds of a relatively few criminals.
We need to remain true to the ideals expressed in our Constitution.
6
I wrote a comment before but not sure what happened to it!
After having lived in the US for 20 years, I visited Montreal to see a friend. My visit was supposed to be for only 3 days, which has turned into almost 17 years. On my first day here, I asked my friend: why is there no police here? I was used to seeing a squad car on each corner in Houston, TX. He replied with a question, why do you need the police? Furthermore, he went on to say that if you need the police you just call them and they will visit when they have some time. This was the situation 17 years ago, a safe and sound modern city with a population of about 4 million in the greater metropolitan area. It is a bit different today, we have some issues and there is a bit more police but nothing like the mayhem that exists south of the border: police killings on a "regular" basis, if you are a minority - if you are black-, and citizen killings if you look like a Muslim - brown skinned etc. Now, even the white folks from Australia are not safe like what happened the other day.
My suggestion to the Muslims in the US is, if you are well placed and have some education or monies try to make a move out of the US so your foreign families can visit you with ease. This Muslim ban and other stuff will only get worst in the US; it is getting worst daily. Open your eyes and see that there is a bigger world out there, a bigger world where you would be happy. I have never looked back and I never will.
After having lived in the US for 20 years, I visited Montreal to see a friend. My visit was supposed to be for only 3 days, which has turned into almost 17 years. On my first day here, I asked my friend: why is there no police here? I was used to seeing a squad car on each corner in Houston, TX. He replied with a question, why do you need the police? Furthermore, he went on to say that if you need the police you just call them and they will visit when they have some time. This was the situation 17 years ago, a safe and sound modern city with a population of about 4 million in the greater metropolitan area. It is a bit different today, we have some issues and there is a bit more police but nothing like the mayhem that exists south of the border: police killings on a "regular" basis, if you are a minority - if you are black-, and citizen killings if you look like a Muslim - brown skinned etc. Now, even the white folks from Australia are not safe like what happened the other day.
My suggestion to the Muslims in the US is, if you are well placed and have some education or monies try to make a move out of the US so your foreign families can visit you with ease. This Muslim ban and other stuff will only get worst in the US; it is getting worst daily. Open your eyes and see that there is a bigger world out there, a bigger world where you would be happy. I have never looked back and I never will.
7
I wouldn't want to live in a place where the police ignore calls and show up when they have time. Really? What about the concept of public service? Canada is accepting a lot of immigrants who don't share Western culture and mores. Those trees will bear fruit sooner or later. Good luck.
3
The Fourth Reich, I said back in January, Trump is not a President. He had zero legal training and no government experience/ He is violating the Constitution right and left.
.
Heir Trump is a Dictator, he will be this century's Hitler.
Mark my words. With the extremist right-wing to back him up, it will be martial law.
.
Heir Trump is a Dictator, he will be this century's Hitler.
Mark my words. With the extremist right-wing to back him up, it will be martial law.
7
Oh good grief, sneaky Prez Trump wants to keep Muslim visas and possible immigration down to a trickle! A "phobia" is an IRRATIONAL fear of something as in "Islamophobia." But what if the fear IS rational? Could this be a clue? https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Muslims+riot+london+ or this: https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Muslims+riot+germany Not all Muslims want to convert infidel customs and culture to their liking but, as Europe discovered, too many do.
4
Shame on us for being so un-American! Now it is incumbent upon us to make this information well known to friends and the wider media. Prejudice should not and cannot be government policy.
5
Somewhere, Osama bin Laden is smiling.
15
Ways to keep 'others' out is nothing new in the history of the US.... It is disingenuous to think that it is ... Europeans are masters at keeping the other out ... and ridding the lands they invade of the indigenes ... as well as weeding out those of their own who don't match to their tune ...
1
So the Times wants anti-Semites to have easier access to the US? Odd.
6
But oddly NOT Saudi Arabians. Gee I wonder why? Hmmmm...
*cough* $$$$$ *cough*
*cough* $$$$$ *cough*
3
The Times has certainly done its share in making Muslims feel unwelcome. For starters, it turned the ban into a "Muslim" ban, engaging in politically charged rhetoric. If Muslims didn't think it was personal before, they certainly would after listening to Trump's critics.
Calling them "predominantly Muslim countries" is equally silly. Which Middle Eastern countries are not predominantly Muslim?
What we fail to hear from critics of the ban are ways to insure that ungoverned and uncontrolled immigration from countries is going to be carefully managed. There is no vetting someone from a country without a government. Anyone can enter and pass through it. With terrorists fleeing ISIS territories, where do Trump critics think they are going? To Saudi Arabia? Highly unlikely.
This is one of those anti-Trump efforts that is truly making us less safe. They really need some self-reflection and to let cooler heads prevail.
Calling them "predominantly Muslim countries" is equally silly. Which Middle Eastern countries are not predominantly Muslim?
What we fail to hear from critics of the ban are ways to insure that ungoverned and uncontrolled immigration from countries is going to be carefully managed. There is no vetting someone from a country without a government. Anyone can enter and pass through it. With terrorists fleeing ISIS territories, where do Trump critics think they are going? To Saudi Arabia? Highly unlikely.
This is one of those anti-Trump efforts that is truly making us less safe. They really need some self-reflection and to let cooler heads prevail.
5
the six Muslim majority countries were identified by Obama, take up the anti Muslim bias with him, trump is merely doing Obama's dirty work
and there are some 57 Muslim majority countries only go on the list
sounds like a 6/57 ban, not anti Muslim at all
- facts are pesky things
and there are some 57 Muslim majority countries only go on the list
sounds like a 6/57 ban, not anti Muslim at all
- facts are pesky things
7
Saudi Arabia funded 9/11 and provided the pilots . Osama bin Laden was a Saudi. People are beheaded in the streets there. Not on the list because Trump has hotels and businesses there.
None of the six countries has ever been involved in a terrorist event in the US, but there are no Trump hotels there.
Facts, again.
None of the six countries has ever been involved in a terrorist event in the US, but there are no Trump hotels there.
Facts, again.
90
Facts are indeed pesky things -one fact you have ignored which is in the story and in previous articles is that Trump on TV has stated he wants a total ban on Muslims entering the states unless terrorism ends.
http://time.com/4139476/donald-trump-shutdown-muslim-immigration/
http://time.com/4139476/donald-trump-shutdown-muslim-immigration/
3
Well, it's be 6 months, I thought they only needed 30 days. It must just be more complicated than he ever realized. And yes, the Obama Administration found a hole in the refugee program and banned people coming from those countries for 6 months while it was fixed. He never called for a complete and total ban on Muslims entering the US, because well, he knew how to lead.
4
Our Christian Bureaucrats are hard at work defending our borders. Whats to complain?
1
Who is committing all the crimes in the past 8 years? Mostly domestic crimes, natural American born people, not immigrants.
4
I was afraid my humor would be taken seriously, and it was. Sorry.
Wow, great to hear how well the government is operating under Trump. Another promise kept despite liberal judges in Hawaii hell-bent on getting us all killed.
5
The secretive methods Trump has employed with the bureaucracies he oversees to eliminate these tired and poor oppressed peoples from immigrating to America, parallels the Nazi's underhanded methods employed to keep the Jews from leaving Germany, the country of their birth, before the 2nd World war.
http://thegovernmentinexile.live
http://thegovernmentinexile.live
5
To paraphrase pastor Martin Niemöller from the Nazi era.............
"First they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.
Then they came for the Mexicans, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Mexican.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
I simply am aghast that people cannot see this rolling nightmare coming down the pike. Wake up Trump voters, you are being played for fools.
"First they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.
Then they came for the Mexicans, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Mexican.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
I simply am aghast that people cannot see this rolling nightmare coming down the pike. Wake up Trump voters, you are being played for fools.
12
The fact that you are correct is terrifying.
7
The biggest terrorist threats we have in the U.S. are on Wall Street and Washington, D.C. Be very afraid.
11
And sadly once people from the six Muslim countries get here, they have to endure the nastiness of some Americans who see "Muslim" as a synonym for "terrorist". Meanwhile Russia isn't on that list. Russia's meddling in our election has made us more unsafe with this dishonest, thin skinned, easily played, buffoon in the White House.
9
We apparently already have about 11 million illegals, mostly Hispanics, in the country. I doubt that Trump's policies will exclude many committed Muslims from entry. About all Trump is accomplishing is putting a target on our backs for the radicals to aim at.
4
Meanwhile, he himself employs immigrants over Americans. Google it.
3
Of course he is. He doesn't care about the constitution, the rule of law, or anything but his own power, hate, and the prejudices of his White supremacist cheering section. I'm looking at YOU, the 58% of White people who voted for it.
7
You're mistaken about motive. If power were his angle, as was the Clinton's, he would be governing by poll -- very contrary to the Republican government. He is governing with leadership; in what he believes is Americas best interest. Which is why he was elected. You may disagree, and vote again; your confusion about motive is likely due to you being patronized too long.
3
The President's job is to keep American's safe. Terrorism around the world has been largely perpetrated by Muslims. Keeping them out of American keeps Americans safe. Case closed.
11
What happens when the greatest threat to the country is its president? That's our situation...fascism arrived wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross...careful what you wish for.
3
And when was the last time an international terrorist attacked America? They aren't interested in America. He is just a racist white man. He uses immigrants all the time at his resorts. He has businesses in other countries where he can abuse the workers, just like IVanka. I would think that is more of an issue considering his mantra of Made in America, Buy American. All his clothes are made elsewhere. He doesn't favor America. He favors his businesses.
4
I support President Trump's Muslim ban because I believe Islam is a political ideology that is not compatible with Western Civilization. Muslims bring more problems where they go than benefits. Just look at Europe (or as I like to say Eurabia).
If the liberals really want Muslims coming to the US, then they should only be allowed to be settled in places like Palo Alto and Chappaqua. Let them practice what they preach.
If the liberals really want Muslims coming to the US, then they should only be allowed to be settled in places like Palo Alto and Chappaqua. Let them practice what they preach.
10
I'm in Columbus, Ohio. They're welcome here, as many as want to come. Kind of kills your theory about the inherent bigotry of the flyover states, doesn't it?
3
So why didn't he ban Saudi Arabia? Where most terrorists have come from - not the banned countries?
I guess all those BILLIONS in arms sales he just made are more important than US lives?
Also, more US citizens, mostly white males, have caused terror attacks in the US.
I guess all those BILLIONS in arms sales he just made are more important than US lives?
Also, more US citizens, mostly white males, have caused terror attacks in the US.
Europe has far more Muslim immigrants in proportion to their population than the USA. The USA already has very restrictive policies about immigration.
The Obama administration had a goal of admitting 10,000 Syrian refugees per year. With our population of 320 million, that's only one refugee per 32,000 US citizens!
Hillary Clinton wanted to admit 65,000 Syrian refugees per year. That's still only one refugee per every 5000 US citizens. The USA is not being culturally overrun.
By contrast, Germany accepted about 300,000 Syrian refugees in 2016, that's about one refugee for every 270 Germans. So it makes a lot more sense when Europeans complain about Muslim immigration.
The USA should be doing more to help with this humanitarian crisis.
The Obama administration had a goal of admitting 10,000 Syrian refugees per year. With our population of 320 million, that's only one refugee per 32,000 US citizens!
Hillary Clinton wanted to admit 65,000 Syrian refugees per year. That's still only one refugee per every 5000 US citizens. The USA is not being culturally overrun.
By contrast, Germany accepted about 300,000 Syrian refugees in 2016, that's about one refugee for every 270 Germans. So it makes a lot more sense when Europeans complain about Muslim immigration.
The USA should be doing more to help with this humanitarian crisis.
2
The jackboot is on the job, well ahead of the SCOTUS decision. People who applaud that have no knowledge of history. Pastors Bonhoeffer and Niemöller left us strong testimony from Hitler's era. Bonhoeffer said we must not just bandage the wounds of those hurt by the wheel, we must stick a spoke in the wheel. Niemöller left us the striking "First they came for the socialists..."
If Trump and his black-shirts can make the law, there are hard times ahead. To paraphrase Yeats, Christian America is dead and gone: it's with Berrigan in the grave.
If Trump and his black-shirts can make the law, there are hard times ahead. To paraphrase Yeats, Christian America is dead and gone: it's with Berrigan in the grave.
4
What is the point of having the world's biggest military when one is scared stiff of a bunch of schoolgirls with robots ?
6
And I thought I was the only one terrorized by nerdy schoolgirls.
3
Thanks for your advocacy and for pointing this Administration's crooked ways.
2
Deport them all...I mean the Trumps.
Any Trump is more dangerous than any Muslim.
Any Trump is more dangerous than any Muslim.
7
Perhaps a better title would be "Trump is carrying out his Muslim Ban against countries who don't buy military hardware from the US". I would be surprised if Muslims from Saudi Arabia face the same hurdles as those from Yemen. Also, the article is missing a bit of information - are Muslims from European countries - who are not required to have a visa, being denied entry? Do Muslims from India face the same hurdles as those from Yemen? Finally, it looks like it's not just Muslims who face problems in the US - (see NY Times - "After Backing Trump, Christians who Fled Iraq Fall into his Dragnet") but anyone living in countries Trump deems dangerous.
4
It has been true all along that banning Muslims from the US has nothing to do with safety. If safety was the issue, Trump would be talking about ways to identify people already in the country who are becoming radicalized and might be dangerous. Those are the people that have been responsible for acts of terror in the US. How can law enforcement identify people born in America, or who have already emigrated here, and are becoming radicalized? And, why only look at religion? Most Muslims are safer to be around than Dylann Roof, an American-born-and-bred racist and murderer. Trump leaves us at the mercy of future murderous racists, while using Religion as a reason to deny entry to someone who very well may become a benefit to society. Trump's ban has always been a ploy to appease the lowest among his followers, nothing more.
6
Of course it's a Muslim ban. Trump's base is a racist, xenophobic, ignorance-applauding, White tribalists, who believe to the core of their being that the USA was founded as a Christian nation, and that it's a hole in the Constitution that Christianity isn't explicitly stated as the state religion. To them, the 1st Amendment means THEY are free to practice their form of Christianity, but you'll hear them attack "papists" (Catholics) and Mormons as not-real Christians. Many are anti-Semitic but a large portion of evangelicals support Israel for 3 reasons:
1) Israel is, to them, a bulwark against, you guessed it, Muslims. That's why they support the current extreme religious regime and all its anti-democratic segregationist policies.
2) Israel's re-founding is a key step to the Rapture and then the Apocalypse spoken of in the New Testament's Revelations.
3) Cover against charges that the they STILL are anti-Semitic, which, of course, they are because Jews don't believe Jesus is the Moshiach (Messiah).
As we see crowds of KKK and neo-nazis, most of who claim to be "Christian" come out from under their rocks, those of us with any sense recognize they are a far more serious and fundamental threat to our safety and freedom than every Muslim person applying for admission could ever be.
And the KKK's rampant history of terrorism reaches back generations to the end of the Civil War through the murder of James Byrd in 1998 and the Dylann Roof terrorism in Charleston, SC in 2015.
1) Israel is, to them, a bulwark against, you guessed it, Muslims. That's why they support the current extreme religious regime and all its anti-democratic segregationist policies.
2) Israel's re-founding is a key step to the Rapture and then the Apocalypse spoken of in the New Testament's Revelations.
3) Cover against charges that the they STILL are anti-Semitic, which, of course, they are because Jews don't believe Jesus is the Moshiach (Messiah).
As we see crowds of KKK and neo-nazis, most of who claim to be "Christian" come out from under their rocks, those of us with any sense recognize they are a far more serious and fundamental threat to our safety and freedom than every Muslim person applying for admission could ever be.
And the KKK's rampant history of terrorism reaches back generations to the end of the Civil War through the murder of James Byrd in 1998 and the Dylann Roof terrorism in Charleston, SC in 2015.
7
Don't let them in. Look what they have done in large numbers to Europe. Do we want this here? Do you want your women to run around in these costumes? They are clever and stealthy. Look at Britain and Germany.
9
Europe has far more Muslim immigrants in proportion to their population than the USA. The USA already has very restrictive policies about immigration.
The Obama administration had a goal of admitting 10,000 Syrian refugees per year. With our population of 320 million, that's only one refugee per 32,000 US citizens!
Hillary Clinton wanted to admit 65,000 Syrian refugees per year. That's still only one refugee per every 5000 US citizens. The USA is not being culturally overrun.
By contrast, Germany accepted about 300,000 Syrian refugees in 2016, that's about one refugee for every 270 Germans. So it makes a lot more sense when Europeans complain about Muslim immigration.
The USA should be doing more to help with this humanitarian crisis.
The Obama administration had a goal of admitting 10,000 Syrian refugees per year. With our population of 320 million, that's only one refugee per 32,000 US citizens!
Hillary Clinton wanted to admit 65,000 Syrian refugees per year. That's still only one refugee per every 5000 US citizens. The USA is not being culturally overrun.
By contrast, Germany accepted about 300,000 Syrian refugees in 2016, that's about one refugee for every 270 Germans. So it makes a lot more sense when Europeans complain about Muslim immigration.
The USA should be doing more to help with this humanitarian crisis.
2
Reckon all comments against Saudi Arabia are treif.
2
President Trump. I still support you. But, kinda wish you targeted the real threat: Saudi Arabia. Reckon you forgot about 9/11. Sad...
4
This is the beginning of the withdrawal of this country from its exploitation and spoliation of the Arab world over the last 75 years. Done with the oil now that the immigrant South-African is making his Teslas stateside, it's time to pack up and shut the door behind, is it? On the list of various self-described empires from the Romans down to the British, this has been the lowest of the low. Americans built nothing, and destroyed everything they touched there. The British set rail networks and the French built nice-looking cities. The US bombed and droned, directly or through its servants, every single Arab country. Millions of Arabs have died and been maimed while successive American governments supported and armed aggression by corrupt and racist regimes - in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Palestine, Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia - that have left the region in tatters. They have the gall to "accuse" Arab and Muslim culture. It's the voracious, immoral and soulless consumption culture that has sucked the life out of the region. No love lost; the Arabs will not regret the American boot. They will spit on it and move on, like the victims of empire everywhere. Had this so-called "superpower" really spent the $2,000,000,000,000 on Iraq it said it did, that would amount to every single Iraqi household becoming millionaires! What a farce. It was spent shooting up innocents who looked like the people who hit the towers in New York City and to pay mercenaries and arms peddlers.
1
Instead of baning Muslims to US ban American Troops to Muslim countries and stop interference in their political matters. Poblem solved.
5
We all know this is a thinly disguised Muslim ban but the fact is only Muslims are killing Americans indiscriminately and until we figure out why not a single one should be let into this country without extreme vetting. Trump has already saved lives with this ban because out of the thousands of Muslims he has already kept out, at least 1% of them came here to kill. And the % is probably closer to 3-5%. This is a religion that does not allow women to drive, that forbids a woman from wearing a skirt, the punishes women if they are raped, that cuts off a hand if you steal an apple, that cuts off a head if you convert to Christianity. But we must all mouth the politically correct words it is a wonderful religion of "peace." Poppycock.
7
"Nationals of the seven countries singled out by Trump have killed zero people in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and 2015."
"Six Iranians, six Sudanese, two Somalis, two Iraqis, and one Yemeni have been convicted of attempting or executing terrorist attacks on U.S. soil during that time period" https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigrat...
If 3-5% of Muslim immigrants actually come her to kill, they're very ineffective killers!
"Six Iranians, six Sudanese, two Somalis, two Iraqis, and one Yemeni have been convicted of attempting or executing terrorist attacks on U.S. soil during that time period" https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigrat...
If 3-5% of Muslim immigrants actually come her to kill, they're very ineffective killers!
3
The left would do well to learn the scary truth about Islam. especially the difference between meccan and medinan verses and the Islamic doctrine of abrogation.
8
Banning Muslims from my point of view can only be a good thing.
Muslims and Lefties many of whose comments I read in this newspaper would as they have stated gladly rid the world of me simply because I am a Jew and a Zionist.
By all means keep those lovely people as far away as possible.
Muslims and Lefties many of whose comments I read in this newspaper would as they have stated gladly rid the world of me simply because I am a Jew and a Zionist.
By all means keep those lovely people as far away as possible.
9
"an easy way to target disfavored countries"
We already drop bombs on them and helicopter in roving kill teams. "Disfavored countries" really avoids understanding what is happening in those countries.
We already drop bombs on them and helicopter in roving kill teams. "Disfavored countries" really avoids understanding what is happening in those countries.
7
I still don't understand how Saudi Arabia escaped this list when they have the worst track record of creating terrorists of all Muslim nations.
The hypocrisy makes me sick.
The hypocrisy makes me sick.
113
The banned countries are *ungoverned* lawless territories. No government records exist. No controlling authority exists to record who is in the country, entering, leaving, etc. Anyone can enter and pass through to the US -- like ISIS fighters fleeing Mosul, for example.
The purpose of the ban is to more carefully vet those who are coming from virtually undocumented territories. In no way does Saudi Arabia meet this criteria.
The purpose of the ban is to more carefully vet those who are coming from virtually undocumented territories. In no way does Saudi Arabia meet this criteria.
3
Got oil? If so, you win.
2
All of the nations on the list are either failed states with open civil war, or are on the US State department's list of know supporters of Terrorism. The failed states have no mechanism for vetting their own people, and countries like Iran might knowingly send terrorists to the US. The list was compiled by president Obama and use to remove European Nationals who had traveled there from our visa waiver program. While I agree that Saudi Arabia is not our alley and is arguable a State sponsor of terrorism, our government has not yet seen fit to officially see or label them as such. That is why they are not on the list.
3
The State Departments proposed “emergency review” doesn’t apply to specific countries or members of specific religions, but to individuals who “present a threat profile.” The State Department estimates it will affect 0.5 percent of visa applicants worldwide, or about 65,000 per year. As the State Department points out, most of the information that could be requested under the proposed emergency review “is already collected on visa applications but for a shorter time period, e.g. five years rather than fifteen years.” The request for the names and dates of birth of siblings and children isnew, but few visa applicants will find this problematic. Most visa applicants already know the names and birthdays of their children and siblings. The request for social media identifiers also is new, although the Department of Homeland Security already asks some individuals for social media identifiers. Regarding travel history, applicants may be asked to provide details of their international or domestic travel, if it appears to the consular officer that the applicant has been in an area while the area was under the operational control of a terrorist organization. It is true that more Muslims than Christians, Jews, Hindus or Buddhists presently travel or live in areas controlled by terrorist organization, but this does not make the proposed emergency review discriminatory.
4
A vetting of the applications from these countries might find many irregularities -- ex., consecutive birthdates of family members (ex., June 1, June 2, June 3...) to more easily remember made-up dates.
Evidently, family members are slotted into acceptable spots. Uncles are passed off as fathers. Grown men as children. The truthfulness of these applicants leaves a lot to be desired. Even with careful vetting, the information is likely often fictitious.
Evidently, family members are slotted into acceptable spots. Uncles are passed off as fathers. Grown men as children. The truthfulness of these applicants leaves a lot to be desired. Even with careful vetting, the information is likely often fictitious.
4
All the US needs is one Muslim terrorist attack where many Americans are killed and the opposition to the restrictions will fade away.
6
The total number of fatal terrorist attacks in the US committed by people from the six Muslim majority countries in the ban is precisely zero.
In the meantime, Saudi Arabia, from whence the mastermind of 9/11 and 15 of the 19 hijackers came, has no such restriction.
As soon as the restriction makes sense, and is not an arbitrary idea that does not favor countries that have produced terrorism fatalities in this country, I will stop opposing it. There is no indication that will happen anytime soon.
In the meantime, Saudi Arabia, from whence the mastermind of 9/11 and 15 of the 19 hijackers came, has no such restriction.
As soon as the restriction makes sense, and is not an arbitrary idea that does not favor countries that have produced terrorism fatalities in this country, I will stop opposing it. There is no indication that will happen anytime soon.
1
Chances are, the next terrorist attack will be domestic (a US citizen) and this illegal religious ban will be proved to be ineffective and off-target.
The racist policy will do more harm than good, but hey, makes ya feel real safe, doesn't it?
The racist policy will do more harm than good, but hey, makes ya feel real safe, doesn't it?
4
The temporary travel restrictions are designed to respond to the present terror threat, not the terror threat that existed in 2001. It applies to countries where vetting procedures are consider inadequate. Vetting procedures are now considered adequate in Saudi Arabia. While travelers or immigrants from the countries on the travel ban list have not succeeded in carrying out terror attacks, it's not from lack of trying. Dozens of them have been convicted of terror-related charges.
5
I have been to America a few times and my children many more.
But no more.
I am also a crafter and love your stamp's, dies, excreta.
But I will no longer buy them, in reality this means little, but think of how many more of us are out hear reading, watching, and feeling we need to do something. This may be made in America week, but I would say don't buy American at all.
You are a country wholely of immigrants, except the native American Indians - of course.
Act like it!
You should be passed ashamed at how you treat others, never mind how you treat each other. I think its time as a country you look inwards and figger out who you are and what you stand for as a country, before you implode - again. Do you not remember the civil war you Guy's had on States rights and other important issues. Do you want to be a deeply divided county gain? Looking in from the out side that is what it looks like and it isn't good.
I will also be giving up my NYT's subscription, America sort your selves out!
But no more.
I am also a crafter and love your stamp's, dies, excreta.
But I will no longer buy them, in reality this means little, but think of how many more of us are out hear reading, watching, and feeling we need to do something. This may be made in America week, but I would say don't buy American at all.
You are a country wholely of immigrants, except the native American Indians - of course.
Act like it!
You should be passed ashamed at how you treat others, never mind how you treat each other. I think its time as a country you look inwards and figger out who you are and what you stand for as a country, before you implode - again. Do you not remember the civil war you Guy's had on States rights and other important issues. Do you want to be a deeply divided county gain? Looking in from the out side that is what it looks like and it isn't good.
I will also be giving up my NYT's subscription, America sort your selves out!
5
Only about 13 percent of Americans are immigrants. The other 87 percent are native-born. The people we call mistakenly call Native Americans are actually descendants of immigrants who came to the Americas from Asia.
Immigration isn't a civil rights issue. Foreign nationals have no "right" to enter the country. This is why they have to apply for visas.
Immigration isn't a civil rights issue. Foreign nationals have no "right" to enter the country. This is why they have to apply for visas.
5
So, in your analysis there are no 'native Americans'- its just that these 'so called' 'Native Americans' came to the Americas about 15000 years ago when there were no other humans around to grant them visas.
2
You are all immigrants as your first generation family member came to the country please remember the only ones who are real American's are native Americans every one else is a descendent of people who emigrated to America making them immigrants. Please remember your history.
2
The evidence to support a claim of banning and discriminating against muslims today is no different in its lack of evidence and mythical demonization than in the traditional banning of Jews through history.
4
And to my fellow Jews: realize that, if you jump on the anti-Muslim bandwagon, you will be joining a cohort that has largely embraced anti-Semitism. Not all, of course, but many.
5
Jews have never been banned from the United States. In 1939, Jewish refugees aboard the steamship St. Louis was turned around in New York City harbor because the refugees had visas for Cuba, not the United States. They were not denied entry because they were Jewish. The United States has always accepted Jewish immigrants. My own Jewish great grandfather came to the United States in 1850.
4
Jews ain't blowing themselves up and driving trucks into crowds of people, my friend. (You don't need to reply with "Yeah, but Israel!")
6
When Muslims embrace rights for others, especially a fatwah against killing innocent LGBT and "honor killings" against women, then they will be consistent. They will deserve the rights they deny to others in "majority Muslim countries."
6
Why is Saudi Arabia not on the list? They export jihad, they were behind 9/11. Oh yeah, Trump has business interests there...
3
The two anti-Muslim, pro-Trump comments are getting many recommendations, leading me to ask once again, why has the Times not given us a single article on this new phenomenon, openly expressed racism/discrimination expressed in comments against Muslims?
The Times has a Newsletter called Race/Related which is really devoted almost entirely to racism and discrimination expressed by some whites against blacks. Not once to my knowledge has it taken up the subject of anti-Muslim racism. (Racism is used by many researchers to cover all forms of discrimination).
Since Race/Related is mostly about racism, it should be discussing anti-Muslim racism. Requests to Race/Related go unanswered, thus the need to express these thoughts at OpEds.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
The Times has a Newsletter called Race/Related which is really devoted almost entirely to racism and discrimination expressed by some whites against blacks. Not once to my knowledge has it taken up the subject of anti-Muslim racism. (Racism is used by many researchers to cover all forms of discrimination).
Since Race/Related is mostly about racism, it should be discussing anti-Muslim racism. Requests to Race/Related go unanswered, thus the need to express these thoughts at OpEds.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
3
That's because anti-American (and anti-European) hate far exceeds any so-called anti -Muslim hate. The few acts of anti-Muslim hate detailed in the Times' "This Week in Hate" were found to be false claims. The women claiming to have had their hijabs snatched off and ethnic/racial slurs hurled at them all admitted they'd made up their claims for attention. Of course no retraction was made in The Times.
2
Trumpian ignorance is on a few display here in comment land, as one Trump supporter after another reveals his or her ignorance about Muslims, American wars, about the perptrators of 9/11 and much more.
Ignorance is clearly the highest form of bliss for these comment writers.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Ignorance is clearly the highest form of bliss for these comment writers.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
5
We are united, at least, Larry.
You appear to be hedging your bets, trying to serve two masters.
Dual citizenship to many here seems like being married to two partners at once. Choose one, and let your loyalties to the other end when you next commit.
(You have your opinions, and I have mine.)
Good luck to you in the future.
You appear to be hedging your bets, trying to serve two masters.
Dual citizenship to many here seems like being married to two partners at once. Choose one, and let your loyalties to the other end when you next commit.
(You have your opinions, and I have mine.)
Good luck to you in the future.
3
Trump and his alt right white nationalist allies Steve Bannon and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III want it reduce to zero immigration from Muslim and, let's be honest, non white countries. That's the intent. The Muslim travel plan is in itself a sham (the countries where most terrorists come from -- Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Egypt -- are excluded because Trump owns properties in them. The obvious question intent is to alter the racial balance of this country.
Given how hated Trump and his cadre are overseas, it's doubtful there will be a big spike in immigration from white countries like Trump wishes, so this whole exercise will just be a temporary waste of time until the GOP lose the presidency in 2020.
Given how hated Trump and his cadre are overseas, it's doubtful there will be a big spike in immigration from white countries like Trump wishes, so this whole exercise will just be a temporary waste of time until the GOP lose the presidency in 2020.
7
Many Muslims are white.
1
Bravo! Most Americans want people to come to this country who love America and support our values. Female Genital Mutilation, anti-gay bias, and Shariah law do not. I will re-elect President Trump on this alone.
7
Your ignorance is stunning! Don't show up in an ER anytime soon. The skilled person who'll admit and treat you may be from a Muslim majority country.
Go back to your tabloid reading, catch up on the children starved by their all American parents, women raped by their blue eyed Christian uncles, etc. Idiot.
Go back to your tabloid reading, catch up on the children starved by their all American parents, women raped by their blue eyed Christian uncles, etc. Idiot.
3
Sue, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan do not support "our values." Bin Laden and 15/19 hijackers on 9/11 came from there. Pakistan harbored him for years, and Egypt is as repressive as any. So why did Trump not put any of those countries on the list? Because his business interests trump his caring about American security?
2
I am Muslim, I lived in the US for 20 years and for the past 18 years I haven't entered the US, did not find any pressing reason to visit down south. My undergraduate education, and quite a bit of professional work experience is from the US.
What I do not understand is why the Muslims of the world want to go somewhere they are officially unwelcome and where the uneducated citizens are armed to the hilt that they might encounter untimely death at their hands.
My life has been a blessed after I left the US. While in the US, I was exposed to a single view of the world that the USA is the best and there is just disease and wars and chaos everywhere else. This is what was shown in the news. I remember a time when the only thing I saw about Australia was the wild fires depicting the place to be hell whereas when I visited there, it is beautiful.
The Muslims of the world should have NOTHING to do with the USA and the ones living there should sell their properties and move to other CIVILIZED and DEVELOPED countries. These folks will find that other countries have a lot more to offer in terms of good life, better health care systems, personal freedoms, welcoming local residents, and extremely helpful governmental services. Furthermore, the police forces will NOT bother you during a traffic stop or otherwise. Here in Montreal, the police is polite and talk with a smile. In Australia they will address you as "Sir", or "Madam" and with RESPECT.
What I do not understand is why the Muslims of the world want to go somewhere they are officially unwelcome and where the uneducated citizens are armed to the hilt that they might encounter untimely death at their hands.
My life has been a blessed after I left the US. While in the US, I was exposed to a single view of the world that the USA is the best and there is just disease and wars and chaos everywhere else. This is what was shown in the news. I remember a time when the only thing I saw about Australia was the wild fires depicting the place to be hell whereas when I visited there, it is beautiful.
The Muslims of the world should have NOTHING to do with the USA and the ones living there should sell their properties and move to other CIVILIZED and DEVELOPED countries. These folks will find that other countries have a lot more to offer in terms of good life, better health care systems, personal freedoms, welcoming local residents, and extremely helpful governmental services. Furthermore, the police forces will NOT bother you during a traffic stop or otherwise. Here in Montreal, the police is polite and talk with a smile. In Australia they will address you as "Sir", or "Madam" and with RESPECT.
3
A threat orders of magnitude larger than Muslim immigrants to the US are the evangelicals that are already here. There would be no Muslim ban if the evangelicals had not voted a complete ignorant immature amoral man-baby into the presidency.
The evangelical threat is far more dangerous than simply physical violence (one is far more likely to be murdered by a christian than muslim in this country), the threat being the long inevitable slide into an oligarchy with a theocratic veneer.
The most dangerous immigrant currently in the US is the nominally(?) christian Murdock.
The evangelical threat is far more dangerous than simply physical violence (one is far more likely to be murdered by a christian than muslim in this country), the threat being the long inevitable slide into an oligarchy with a theocratic veneer.
The most dangerous immigrant currently in the US is the nominally(?) christian Murdock.
5
Visas issued to people from Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen, the six countries on the travel ban list, were down 55 percent. Those figures will continue to get worse if these other provisions are implemented.
================
Do you mean, "Those figures will continue to lessen if these other provisions are implemented" ? What is "worse" -- higher levels of immigration or lower levels of immigration and why introduce value-laden terms that your reader might not share?
Furthermore, do you think President Trump would like to lessen the numbers of immigrants entering from Central America via Mexico? I think he would, and those illegal workers looking to come in are not all Muslim...
Comments are not available on the opinion story about providing drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants who are unable to follow the rules of the road required of American citizen drivers: car seats, seat belts, insurance, etc. My only question there was: if the child of an illegal immigrant driver dies because the mother in the back seat does not have the child strapped into a car seat as legally required, and a driver such as myself accidentally hits the car... Am I a murderer if the baby is ejected in a fender bender? If an American child, properly strapped in lives because their parents are legally required to protect them this way, and the immigrants' child (likely an American birthright citizen) dies because the parent is holding the infant on the lap, who is at fault?
================
Do you mean, "Those figures will continue to lessen if these other provisions are implemented" ? What is "worse" -- higher levels of immigration or lower levels of immigration and why introduce value-laden terms that your reader might not share?
Furthermore, do you think President Trump would like to lessen the numbers of immigrants entering from Central America via Mexico? I think he would, and those illegal workers looking to come in are not all Muslim...
Comments are not available on the opinion story about providing drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants who are unable to follow the rules of the road required of American citizen drivers: car seats, seat belts, insurance, etc. My only question there was: if the child of an illegal immigrant driver dies because the mother in the back seat does not have the child strapped into a car seat as legally required, and a driver such as myself accidentally hits the car... Am I a murderer if the baby is ejected in a fender bender? If an American child, properly strapped in lives because their parents are legally required to protect them this way, and the immigrants' child (likely an American birthright citizen) dies because the parent is holding the infant on the lap, who is at fault?
4
I suggest every American born citizen should have to take & ace an exam similar to the one taken by immigrants before they become citizens. Since those born here should be better than immigrants (you say so all the time) we should have to make not one mistake on a harder exam. Yes their should be a course & book (written in at least 12th Grade English), the test MUST be closed book. Flunk, become legally a 2nd class citizen with all professional licenses cancelled, a special National ID Card that says you are a non voting, no scholarships for your family, only able to live in the inner city of the biggest cities. If you own a house it will be taken by the government & sold for pennies to real citizens. The money will go into the treasury. Same with religious buildings if a significant number of a religion fail the test. They can rent storefronts for their churches, none of their money would be allowed to go overseas. Like to the Vatican. All 18 year olds (16 if you drop out) would have to spend 4 years in the military. Where they may stay & rise in rank, but, only to the highest enlisted rank. No deferments, even the moderately disabled must go. They work in offices, so they could in the military, freeing healthy people for front line duty. Not even if you have the marks to get into Medical school. Military training first. Then college. Once out you are automatically in the reserves with more training every month for the next 30 years. Pay? E1 for life.
It's the slippery slope. Next it will be the poor from Mexico, Central America or wherever. He already wants to build a wall to keep out the "undesirables". We all know trump and his minions only want a pure lily white, Christian country where no one is handicapped and everyone is able to work and support themselves. And that's why they didn't like Obama.
1
Lily-white?
His grandchildren are Jewish!
And enough with the anti-white, anti-European skin colour hate.
Don't you people ever read yourselves?
His grandchildren are Jewish!
And enough with the anti-white, anti-European skin colour hate.
Don't you people ever read yourselves?
1
If the poor from Mexico, Central America or "Wherever" are blowing themselves and others up and driving trucks into crowds of people while screaming "God is great!" then let the slippery slope be greased.
Trump is a throwback to the 19th century and the banning of the Chinese...
1
No it isn't. The whole world is not entitled to come here.
1
Good! Do we really need people here from Iran, Somalia, and Yemen? Give me a break!
6
Presidential Advisor Steve Bannon believes that the most serious threat to White Male Christian Dominance (desired in the US and Europe) is Islam. He "sees" a necessary war between the west and Islam in the next 5 years. Followed by the other 'necessary' war between the US and China in 10 years or so. Jeff Sessions and others in the administration are acolytes of this Bannon belief.
Their ignorance, intolerance and fear have as their mouthpiece Trump. The author is correct that administrative regulations and procedures will be quietly changed and modified to "extreme" proportion going forward to rid the Borders of the US of all foreign influence either Muslim or Brown (anybody).
They probably wish they could find a good enough excuse to get "rid of" those with current legal status.
This horrific and hateful goal is coupled with another GOP build up of the US military industrial complex with more billions to fund war. This is the future that Bannon sees for America. He and his admirers don't like to publicly discuss this too much. Have to manage the fear you know.
The Trump Presidency is their beginning. Lets make sure it never gets past go.
Vote them out in 2018 and 2020 and return our country to saner thinking.
Their ignorance, intolerance and fear have as their mouthpiece Trump. The author is correct that administrative regulations and procedures will be quietly changed and modified to "extreme" proportion going forward to rid the Borders of the US of all foreign influence either Muslim or Brown (anybody).
They probably wish they could find a good enough excuse to get "rid of" those with current legal status.
This horrific and hateful goal is coupled with another GOP build up of the US military industrial complex with more billions to fund war. This is the future that Bannon sees for America. He and his admirers don't like to publicly discuss this too much. Have to manage the fear you know.
The Trump Presidency is their beginning. Lets make sure it never gets past go.
Vote them out in 2018 and 2020 and return our country to saner thinking.
Didn't do"extreme vetting" of a bunch of Russians entering the Trump Tower last year or the White House this year. It slipped my mind; in the former occasion the Secret Service officers were asleep on the job and the latter case the FBI "Nut Job" had been removed....Seriously, Mr Trump carries out his plans that make no sense and there are a few people that would defend him if he shot someone on "Fifth Avenue".
2
President Obama's FBI and administration apparently were asleep on the job, as they "let the Russians in". If they were such bad characters as the media alleges -- spies for the election and all -- shouldn't they have been stopped at the border before gaining access to Trump Tower in New York?
Thank heavens they weren't interested in anything more destructive, like damaging another New York building. Was James Comey's FBI even tracking these characters??
Thank heavens they weren't interested in anything more destructive, like damaging another New York building. Was James Comey's FBI even tracking these characters??
1
I'm sorry. And the problem is...?
5
On the surface, the ban is cheap red meat to his bigoted supporters. BUT just beneath the surface, the ban is not meant to prevent terrorism, it is meant to provoke terrorism. Trump, Bannon & Co. itch for an attack, the ultimate deflection and the ultimate permission to make authoritarian moves.
2
Just red meat for mad dogs....
2
All except for one of the most regressive countries, Saudi Arabia where al Qaeda, Isis, and Boko Haram got it's start with Salafism. Tell me, does Trump wear the ugly gold medallion the Saudi royalty hung around his neck? Or does he just worship it? Trump's lack of knowledge is only surpassed by his total disinterest in gaining any. Knowledge, that is.
1
This country is over. Republicans have destroyed it.
2
By your logic, if the cops are looking for a white bank robber, then the cops should check all people and not concentrate on white people. So since most terrorists are muslim then it would appear the more vetting should be done on this population coming into the country on matter which country they come from. Iran or the UK, france etc.
4
Quite a large proportion of terrorists are white Christian men. See Dylan Roof, Unabomber, Timothy McVeigh, etc.
1
Please explain how restrictions on immigration that affect under 10% of the world's Muslim population is a Muslim ban
4
Please explain how a list of countries that exclude most of the highest risk potential sources of terrorism (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc.) were chosen for "emergency security reasons".
I live in East London, an area with a large Muslim population. We live / communicate / joke / moan together quite happily.
Yes, "they" could do with some improvement, but then so could "we"!
Yes, "they" could do with some improvement, but then so could "we"!
1
While I respect everyone's right to their opinion, as I read those comments in favor of the Trump / Obama Muslim ban, I'm content in my belief that regardless ones religious persuasion, no individual from any area of the planet should be barred, except in instances wherein it is found they have a criminal record, have called for persecution of adherents of other religions, or are found to be medically and or mentally unfit.
Discrimination of any kind, based on one's dislike of the ethnicity and creed of anyone is abominable, and shows the world that those who discriminate because of such, are ignorant bigots, bereft of constructive core human traits, in particular empathy.
Shame on you, amd may you bigots come to know what you are, and what you are doing to our nation, the nation with Lady Liberty at its gates, calling to a despairing world with words of hope and comfort to be realized -
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of you teamming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Discrimination of any kind, based on one's dislike of the ethnicity and creed of anyone is abominable, and shows the world that those who discriminate because of such, are ignorant bigots, bereft of constructive core human traits, in particular empathy.
Shame on you, amd may you bigots come to know what you are, and what you are doing to our nation, the nation with Lady Liberty at its gates, calling to a despairing world with words of hope and comfort to be realized -
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of you teamming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
2
It saddens me to see that the two first comments accepted minutes ago are from Trump supprters, one anonymous, the other Rob Campbell from my own state of birth, Massachusetts.
These two comments confirm what I have written about in hundreds of comments, the new normal in my USA is that anti-Muslim racism (call it prejudice if you want to) is now as prominent per capita of the targeted group as is anti-black and anti-semitic racism are in the USA.
I close by reporting this tragic information: Maryam Mirzakhani, only woman to take math's highest award, dies at 40. Maryam Mirzakhani, born in Teheran, was a Professor at Stanford.
In the USA of commenters "Here" and "Rob Campbell" and Donald Trump there is no place for anyone born Muslim. Not an America I would want to return to.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
These two comments confirm what I have written about in hundreds of comments, the new normal in my USA is that anti-Muslim racism (call it prejudice if you want to) is now as prominent per capita of the targeted group as is anti-black and anti-semitic racism are in the USA.
I close by reporting this tragic information: Maryam Mirzakhani, only woman to take math's highest award, dies at 40. Maryam Mirzakhani, born in Teheran, was a Professor at Stanford.
In the USA of commenters "Here" and "Rob Campbell" and Donald Trump there is no place for anyone born Muslim. Not an America I would want to return to.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
1
Liberals need to be clear headed about Muslim immigration policy and ignore Trump. What is our position? If it's "refugees are welcome here" we will lose again. We need a coherent policy that admits and addresses the real risks and differences of Islamic Muslims.
1
ISIS claims the U.S. is waging war against Muslims and that all Muslims must rise up against the U.S. Good thing the U.S. president isn't reinforcing that view -- wink-wink.
gosh, last time I tried to carry Christianity into a muslim country I was threatened with death. Why are we so tolerant of the intolerant?
2
23 to 25 percent of the world's population are Muslim. Is the goal to ultimately ban all Muslims? Of course not.
Except for the Trump base, we all know that his "Muslim Ban" is a distraction, has nothing to do with safety, while the administration attempts to carry out their agenda, which would negatively affect all Americans. Yet hate and fear is contagious and spreads very rapidly, scapegoating a particular group of people has always been an effective tool, history shows this occurring again and again.
So what's the next step? Excluding American Muslims from owning businesses, banning Muslims from attending schools, owning Televisions, practicing medicine and law etc.
I realize this sounds too extreme to be true, but German Jews felt the same way in the 1930's.
When the Supreme court hears the argument in the fall, we'll know. If the court overturns the lower appeals court rulings, we'll be in trouble.
Except for the Trump base, we all know that his "Muslim Ban" is a distraction, has nothing to do with safety, while the administration attempts to carry out their agenda, which would negatively affect all Americans. Yet hate and fear is contagious and spreads very rapidly, scapegoating a particular group of people has always been an effective tool, history shows this occurring again and again.
So what's the next step? Excluding American Muslims from owning businesses, banning Muslims from attending schools, owning Televisions, practicing medicine and law etc.
I realize this sounds too extreme to be true, but German Jews felt the same way in the 1930's.
When the Supreme court hears the argument in the fall, we'll know. If the court overturns the lower appeals court rulings, we'll be in trouble.
1
Trump is accomplishing two things by making Muslims unwelcome in America:
1) Muslim Americans will be discriminated against, violence against American Muslims will increase by white Christians who feel legitimized by Trump. Muslim Americans will be less likely to provide the support that the government needs to guard against terrorists.
2) Muslims in foreign countries will see America as hating Islam. That increase the chances of some becoming radicalized and joining a terrorist group.
1) Muslim Americans will be discriminated against, violence against American Muslims will increase by white Christians who feel legitimized by Trump. Muslim Americans will be less likely to provide the support that the government needs to guard against terrorists.
2) Muslims in foreign countries will see America as hating Islam. That increase the chances of some becoming radicalized and joining a terrorist group.
80
So what if it's a Muslim ban? Why should a country accept people who have little chance to assimilate. They congregate together. Their views of women are appalling. As is their views of gays. The Quran says it's great to kill Jews. Some already here promote jihad. And say it's just political jihad (!) Muslim communities in Europe shield terrorists in their midst. Many Isis fighters will be coming back. Ask a one of the hundreds of relatives of innocents killed in Berlin, Paris, Bruxelles if they want more of them.
We already have problems deporting illegals (sorry, undocumented), they use stolen social insurance numbers (sorry, fake ones). I know the US is generous, but when does that end and stupid starts.
We already have problems deporting illegals (sorry, undocumented), they use stolen social insurance numbers (sorry, fake ones). I know the US is generous, but when does that end and stupid starts.
1
Re. #2, Pew Research data shows that about 75% of Muslims from South and Southeast Asia, Middle East, North and Sub-Saharan Africa favor the enshrining of Sharia Law as official law. The numbers are significantly lower for Eastern Europe and Central Asia, but even with those added in, the number is close to 55%.
Few of these regions actually have Sharia law in place, so, these groups are already openly in support of a draconian legal framework based on religion and extreme repression against non-Muslims.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-...
Few of these regions actually have Sharia law in place, so, these groups are already openly in support of a draconian legal framework based on religion and extreme repression against non-Muslims.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-...
1
Oh please. These things you mentioned have been realities before Trump and before 9/11. Islam and most Muslims see America as the great incompatibility.
Statements by our leaders such as President Trump about putting a Muslim Ban to enter our Country and last month Congressman Clay Higgins of Louisiana posting this message on his campaign Facebook, on June 4th he posted,
"The free world... all of Christendom... is at war with Islamic horror. Not one penny of American treasure should be granted to any nation who harbors these heathen animals. Not a single radicalized Islamic suspect should be granted any measure of quarter. Their intended entry to the American homeland should be summarily denied. Every conceivable measure should be engaged to hunt them down. Hunt them, identify them, and kill them. Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all."
A US Congressman Clay Higgins openly advocating killing all Muslims where ever they could be found. Essentially proposing a Muslim Christian divide and a war between religions here in this country.
It is time that people like Mr. Higgins be censured by the US Congress, and President Trump's agenda of a Muslim Ban be stopped by the Congress as it is just immoral to the core and is unconstitutional.
Re extra ordinary vetting procedures are already in place as of 9-11 and was put in place by President G. W. Bush; interestingly President Trump did not put the Saudis and Emiratis in this ban as he has a lot of business in those countries and practically none in the 6 countries mentioned in the ban.
"The free world... all of Christendom... is at war with Islamic horror. Not one penny of American treasure should be granted to any nation who harbors these heathen animals. Not a single radicalized Islamic suspect should be granted any measure of quarter. Their intended entry to the American homeland should be summarily denied. Every conceivable measure should be engaged to hunt them down. Hunt them, identify them, and kill them. Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all."
A US Congressman Clay Higgins openly advocating killing all Muslims where ever they could be found. Essentially proposing a Muslim Christian divide and a war between religions here in this country.
It is time that people like Mr. Higgins be censured by the US Congress, and President Trump's agenda of a Muslim Ban be stopped by the Congress as it is just immoral to the core and is unconstitutional.
Re extra ordinary vetting procedures are already in place as of 9-11 and was put in place by President G. W. Bush; interestingly President Trump did not put the Saudis and Emiratis in this ban as he has a lot of business in those countries and practically none in the 6 countries mentioned in the ban.
70
His language is inflammatory, agreed. But let's be accurate. Representative Higgins was advocating hunting down and killing all "radicalized Islamic suspects." We are now in a war against suspects.
Yes. Trump's own business interests dictates his official posture. The Chinese have a phrase for this: "using of official cover to conduct personal business"--which is deemed a corruption. How can he not include Saudi Arabia?
1
You are correctly identifying the current problems we all see. It is the favorite pastime of blaming the victims of prejudice and abuse, rather than identifying the perpetrators themselves.
We will hear no excuses from anyone who would cheer for the perpetrators of hate, period.
We will hear no excuses from anyone who would cheer for the perpetrators of hate, period.
First of all, it's not properly a "Muslim ban". Trump makes no attempt, for instance, to ban Muslims from Saudi Arabia. It's a ban on immigration and visits originating from places that responsible people have concluded might wish us harm, and that do not maintain adequate security measures at airports to vet travelers passing through those airports who could be terrorists. And note that the list of those places was drawn up by Obama's people, not Trump's.
As it turns out, most of the people from that region who might wish us harm happen to be Muslim. To ignore that fact simply is irresponsible when a primary responsibility of a president is to protect the people from foreign incursions and predations on our soil. The federal courts may insist until they're blue in their collective face that we willingly adopt a mutual suicide pact in the interests of political correctness, but it remains that terrorists who wish to kill westerners (and do, regularly) are overwhelmingly Middle-Eastern Muslims and not Swedish Lutherans. This manifestly evident fact, when it's fully parsed by the U.S. Supreme Court, likely will free Trump to ignore political correctness in the name of saving American lives.
That Trump seeks to get around federal court restrictions to the extent that he can in carrying out a policy he believes he is sworn to uphold is perfectly understandable -- and defensible.
As it turns out, most of the people from that region who might wish us harm happen to be Muslim. To ignore that fact simply is irresponsible when a primary responsibility of a president is to protect the people from foreign incursions and predations on our soil. The federal courts may insist until they're blue in their collective face that we willingly adopt a mutual suicide pact in the interests of political correctness, but it remains that terrorists who wish to kill westerners (and do, regularly) are overwhelmingly Middle-Eastern Muslims and not Swedish Lutherans. This manifestly evident fact, when it's fully parsed by the U.S. Supreme Court, likely will free Trump to ignore political correctness in the name of saving American lives.
That Trump seeks to get around federal court restrictions to the extent that he can in carrying out a policy he believes he is sworn to uphold is perfectly understandable -- and defensible.
10
How many of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi citizens? You undermine your own "logic".
1
carol:
9/11 happened many years ago now, before the Patriot Act, before a lot of history was made. At that time, Saudi Arabia, like most countries, didn't vet travelers passing through it on their way to the U.S. because it wasn't thought then that such measures were necessary. Today it's very different and the Saudis DO vet such travelers extensively.
9/11 happened many years ago now, before the Patriot Act, before a lot of history was made. At that time, Saudi Arabia, like most countries, didn't vet travelers passing through it on their way to the U.S. because it wasn't thought then that such measures were necessary. Today it's very different and the Saudis DO vet such travelers extensively.
Because Saudi Arabia and Pakistan had no connection to anyone who carried out terrorism in the USA? Oh, the twists and turns of logic and facts that some Trump supporters need to justifty Trump's policies in so many different areas!
We're on our way to an autocracy here and it's happening both secretly and in plain sight. The isolation of America continues. Once the Muslim ban works, who will Trump and Company turn their sights on next? And how long will it be before all these targeted countries stop admitting Americans? It's already ugly and it's going to get more so. Welcome to Trump's America...
8
I cannot stand Trump.
I wish that he and his spoiled children would immigrate to Saudi Arabia.
He is an incompetent, vulgar, dangerous pathological liar.
I agree with him on this one issue.
Look at Europe. Look at the impact that their open door policy has had. Neighborhoods that are all Muslim. Crime. Unemployment. Terrorist attacks. Belgium struggles every day as it's now a hot bed for terrorist activity and planning.
Do not look away from Europe, or that reality, because you do not want to look racist.
Many, certainly not all, of the attitudes that these men brought are exactly counter to Western values. They do not believe in equality between the sexes and their horrible attitudes towards gays are well known. They do not believe in freedom of religion, speech, democracy, etc. Most of them who came were uneducated and unskilled and believe Islam is the religion all should follow.
Their attitudes towards women can be dangerous or flat out controlling and sexist, and then women here get to deal with them. It's not fun.
Are they assimilating? When I see a woman wearing a burka, I know she is not, or she is controlled by a man who says she has to wear it. Making a woman invisible, forcing her into a hot, long outfit is, again, counter to American values. And yet they still wear them. It disrespects our culture.
Do I think we should stop all Muslim immigration? No. I don't. But we cannot open the doors like Europe did and we absolutely should limit the numbers.
I wish that he and his spoiled children would immigrate to Saudi Arabia.
He is an incompetent, vulgar, dangerous pathological liar.
I agree with him on this one issue.
Look at Europe. Look at the impact that their open door policy has had. Neighborhoods that are all Muslim. Crime. Unemployment. Terrorist attacks. Belgium struggles every day as it's now a hot bed for terrorist activity and planning.
Do not look away from Europe, or that reality, because you do not want to look racist.
Many, certainly not all, of the attitudes that these men brought are exactly counter to Western values. They do not believe in equality between the sexes and their horrible attitudes towards gays are well known. They do not believe in freedom of religion, speech, democracy, etc. Most of them who came were uneducated and unskilled and believe Islam is the religion all should follow.
Their attitudes towards women can be dangerous or flat out controlling and sexist, and then women here get to deal with them. It's not fun.
Are they assimilating? When I see a woman wearing a burka, I know she is not, or she is controlled by a man who says she has to wear it. Making a woman invisible, forcing her into a hot, long outfit is, again, counter to American values. And yet they still wear them. It disrespects our culture.
Do I think we should stop all Muslim immigration? No. I don't. But we cannot open the doors like Europe did and we absolutely should limit the numbers.
84
Katie,
I suggest you learn the truths before spouting rubbish from the media about Islam and we females who profess it. What we wear or don't isn't your business, nor are the reasons we choose x over y.
You just may want to read any or all of Karen Armstrong's books on Islam, or John Esposito's, both of whom know Islam's tenets better than many who 'practice' it. (But most people who profess a religion know little about that which they espouse, following the traditions of their elders who mislead.
As for controlling males, your prisons are full of these types -misogynistic, angry and murderous males in all shades, and of -for the most part-fundamentalist Christian upbringing. Men who assault their wives/significant others and abuse their children.
I leave you with this fact: Your founding fathers were very aware of the tenets of Islam and preserved Islamic thought in what you know as the Constitution. You may wish to revisit that document -the sooner the better.
I suggest you learn the truths before spouting rubbish from the media about Islam and we females who profess it. What we wear or don't isn't your business, nor are the reasons we choose x over y.
You just may want to read any or all of Karen Armstrong's books on Islam, or John Esposito's, both of whom know Islam's tenets better than many who 'practice' it. (But most people who profess a religion know little about that which they espouse, following the traditions of their elders who mislead.
As for controlling males, your prisons are full of these types -misogynistic, angry and murderous males in all shades, and of -for the most part-fundamentalist Christian upbringing. Men who assault their wives/significant others and abuse their children.
I leave you with this fact: Your founding fathers were very aware of the tenets of Islam and preserved Islamic thought in what you know as the Constitution. You may wish to revisit that document -the sooner the better.
2
Do you feel the same way about Hasidic Jews, who dress differently from our culture and who suppress their women, or about the Christians who "pray over" their wives?
I certainly dislike the subjugation of women, in any form whatsoever, but I believe that exposing these men and women to our mainstream culture will serve to enlighten them.
A major aspect of American culture is its willingness to be a melting pot - to be inclusive. One of the reasons Europe has those problems is that they have suppressed their immigrants and excluded them from society. Unfortunately, it looks like we are headed in that direction.
I certainly dislike the subjugation of women, in any form whatsoever, but I believe that exposing these men and women to our mainstream culture will serve to enlighten them.
A major aspect of American culture is its willingness to be a melting pot - to be inclusive. One of the reasons Europe has those problems is that they have suppressed their immigrants and excluded them from society. Unfortunately, it looks like we are headed in that direction.
2
Well said gazelledz. How does the nytimes recommended comments get chosen? Because it's horrifying that they would shed more light on such a bigoted point of view. The audacity to declare that every muslim woman who wears a burka is either controlled by a man or not assimilating is so disgusting. We have the freedom to practice religion however we wish to in this country, and muslim women choosing to cover their heads affects absolutely no one but themselves. If they wish to express their religious identity in that way, who are you Katie to judge them?
I also doubt Katie has any real first hand experience with any of the issues in europe she is so quick to bring up. Most people who get all scared about "all muslim neighborhoods" and the like in europe or america have never actually done anything beyond read breitbart and get themselves all scared over something they read online.
I also doubt Katie has any real first hand experience with any of the issues in europe she is so quick to bring up. Most people who get all scared about "all muslim neighborhoods" and the like in europe or america have never actually done anything beyond read breitbart and get themselves all scared over something they read online.
1
The citation of the Afghan girls' robotic team being allowed to enter the United States after intervention by the President is interesting. It is an example of the federal government beginning to follow the dictate of an individual rather than law or established policy.
11
This attempt to target Muslims is shameful and contrary to American values. It is the entrepreneurs, the persecuted and the prosecuted who seek to leave, and banning them just because of their religion is un-American.
3
Citing President Trump’s intervention on behalf of Afghan girl’s robotics team as an example of his determination to bar all Muslims from the United States is ridiculous. The Afghan robotics team was twice denied visas under policies established by the Obama administration, not the Trump administration. Afghanistan is not on Trump’s travel ban list. Girl’s Robotic teams from Iran, Syria, and Sudan, which are on the travel ban list, received visas without presidential intervention. Afghanistan is not on the travel ban list. Visas are hard to get in Afghanistan because 40 percent of the country is controlled by the Taliban. According to State Department data from the State Department, just 112 business visas for visitors from Afghanistan, like those the robotics team requested, were granted in May of 2017. By comparison, 256 were granted to Syrians, 780 to Iraqis and 1,091 to Iranians.
3
Iran's population is 79 million. --1091 granted
Syria (with many Christians) is 18 million.--256 granted
Iraq (with many Christians) 36 million---780
Afghanistan with few Christians is about 33 million -- and 112 granted --and it is significantly poorer and with likely fewer businesses applying for visas than the other three which do have sizeable middle classes.
It is not as simple as it appears, but it is FACTUAL that Trump did, not so long ago, call for a ban on ALL Muslims.
Syria (with many Christians) is 18 million.--256 granted
Iraq (with many Christians) 36 million---780
Afghanistan with few Christians is about 33 million -- and 112 granted --and it is significantly poorer and with likely fewer businesses applying for visas than the other three which do have sizeable middle classes.
It is not as simple as it appears, but it is FACTUAL that Trump did, not so long ago, call for a ban on ALL Muslims.
1
Afghanistan should be on that travel ban list. Its refugees are responsible for many of the most openly vicious and violent attacks on women in Austria, Germany, Sweden and elsewhere. They have literally attacked young mothers walking with toddlers and infants in strollers.
For legal reasons, European cities that want to ban Afghans have to ban all refugees. We'll see more such bans arise as government officials say, "We've had it."
For legal reasons, European cities that want to ban Afghans have to ban all refugees. We'll see more such bans arise as government officials say, "We've had it."
2
As the New York Times reported in December 2015, "Donald J. Trump called on Monday for the United States to bar all Muslims from entering the country until the nation’s leaders can “figure out what is going on” after the terrorist attacks in San Bernardino, Calif." So it's true he once called for a temporary ban on Muslims entering the country. But it's also true he modified his stance during the election campaign and as president called only for a temporary suspension of travel from several Muslim countries.
3
And the bureaucrats who impose the rules are just obeying orders, right?
The sad thing is that not only are we betraying the core foundation of our united states as a beacon of light in the world - give us those yearning to be free - we are depriving ourselves of intelligent, caring and hard working contributors to our country. Shame on Republicans, Trump and the perfidy of the Supreme Court.
5
This is a very encouraging piece. Finally some common sense from our government. This is one of the many reasons that I voted for Mr. Trump. Of course we should scrutinize Muslims more, just look at what Europe is going through. What has happened in America that we would even question Mr. Trumps common sense approach to keeping us safe?
7
there has been no greater threat to the country than the Murdochs. how did they get in?
5
It's hard for me to criticize "extreme vetting" of those seeking entrance to the US from Islamic countries when I think of 9-11. Or the policy of the FDR administration in denying entrance of Jewish refugees fleeing European anti-Semitism. The president has the legal right to make rules about immigration. As some
courts have held, he cannot expressly discriminate on the basis of religion. But since he's making exclusionary rules, he obviously is discriminating. He just has to say it's based on national security or preservation of employment for current citizens or something else not protected by the First Amendment.
courts have held, he cannot expressly discriminate on the basis of religion. But since he's making exclusionary rules, he obviously is discriminating. He just has to say it's based on national security or preservation of employment for current citizens or something else not protected by the First Amendment.
1
9/11 = Saudis. Who are not on the list.
Whether or not some people want to admit it, we are all here because of immigration. And at every point, those who got here earlier were against those who come later. Except of course,for what was done to native americans and african americans, which was even worse.
This is no excuse for this behavior to continue, but as long as xenophobic behaviors garners votes, this is where we are.
Its a good thing that dim witted sons are not on his list.
This is no excuse for this behavior to continue, but as long as xenophobic behaviors garners votes, this is where we are.
Its a good thing that dim witted sons are not on his list.
3
This is sounding like a dictatorship is starting up. I suppose we have to start identifying the bureaucrats who implement these bureaucratic hurdles. The rules Trump asks for have to be obeyed by the bureaucrats who impose them for them to work. Trump won't be doing it himself. He will be busy playing
golf.
golf.
2
Creative drawing here to get the message across. Next time though show one husband, four wives, 16 kids, and 10 grandparents.. Show reality.
5
The de facto Muslim ban is not just for Muslims. It is another example of the insidious Trump administration that proceeds to implement the Rebekah agenda to form a rigid, narrow minded, fundamentalist Theocracy run by a select group of bonkers billionaires. Trump himself is just a distracting ornament to keep the media busy, the rabble roused, the Tweeters tweeting, and let the worrisome work go on in the shadows.
4
Dear John,
What is the Rebekah agenda?
What is the Rebekah agenda?
It's ironic that Trump had to intervene for the Afghan girls robotics team, considering that he has caused the restrictions to begin with.
2
There is no ethical or moral justification for this shameful, xenophobic fueled persecution.
2
Why are people spending so much time and effort on this nonsense. If the USA does not want Muslims and wishes to create difficulties for them then it is on the Muslims to create difficulties for the Americans, and the British - grand papa of everyone - when their citizens visit the Muslim nations. I lump Americans and British together as one encourages and stimulates the other into creating chaos and doing horrible things around the globe.
USA is a free independent country and it can create and pass whatever laws it chooses. It is on the people to decide if they want to live under such laws or subject themselves to undue intrusions into their lives by US officials. I am Muslim and I will NEVER allow any US official to come near me, they have NO authority in my country and it is up to me to decide under what rules I want to live.
As long as the US tells the world of its laws and how they are enforced then if the Muslims want to enter the US they should not complain and abide by them. I would find it offensive if a US government employee asked me about my religion so I will NOT ALLOW myself to be subjected to such questioning by simply staying away from the USA.
A Muslim poet, Iqbal, said a long time ago that you should burn the field which does not give fruit. I agree. As a Muslim, I choose to never take a route that takes me into a caustic and poisonous environment.
USA is a free independent country and it can create and pass whatever laws it chooses. It is on the people to decide if they want to live under such laws or subject themselves to undue intrusions into their lives by US officials. I am Muslim and I will NEVER allow any US official to come near me, they have NO authority in my country and it is up to me to decide under what rules I want to live.
As long as the US tells the world of its laws and how they are enforced then if the Muslims want to enter the US they should not complain and abide by them. I would find it offensive if a US government employee asked me about my religion so I will NOT ALLOW myself to be subjected to such questioning by simply staying away from the USA.
A Muslim poet, Iqbal, said a long time ago that you should burn the field which does not give fruit. I agree. As a Muslim, I choose to never take a route that takes me into a caustic and poisonous environment.
4
Unfortunately, the USA has sent far more troops and caused far more damage and many more deaths in majority Muslim countries than Muslim countries have caused in the USA
1
Can anyone explain to me how Spanish became the de facto second language in this country??? What wrong with that?? It encourages separation not integration. It allows those who call themselves employers to take advantage of cheap labor so the employer can thrive. It creates a whole sub populace of communities where Americans no longer feel like they are in America. Trump is islamaphobic that is for sure. But at the same time our system of immigration and citizenship is broken. Yet I hear no viable solutions from the White House or that party that is supposedly in control.
In Minneapolis it's not the Somalian community I worry about it's the sound of Russian being heard just about everywhere I go these days. Get to Canada then into the twin cities then blend in with your communities. Start by penalizing those who hire illegals. The construction industry and the factories. Who am I kidding. This country and its citizenship are for sale. You hardly need any money to get here and thrive here. You can even speak your native tongue for as long as you like without fear.
In Minneapolis it's not the Somalian community I worry about it's the sound of Russian being heard just about everywhere I go these days. Get to Canada then into the twin cities then blend in with your communities. Start by penalizing those who hire illegals. The construction industry and the factories. Who am I kidding. This country and its citizenship are for sale. You hardly need any money to get here and thrive here. You can even speak your native tongue for as long as you like without fear.
2
Why are you so deathly afraid of a second language? Or a third? Or a fourth?
Americans no longer feel like they are in America? Why? Because they are hearing a language other than English when when wander outside of their home?
Yes, as radical as it sounds, anyone, ANYWHERE in the United States, can speak any language they wish, without fear of punishment. At least, that's the way it's supposed to be.
Americans no longer feel like they are in America? Why? Because they are hearing a language other than English when when wander outside of their home?
Yes, as radical as it sounds, anyone, ANYWHERE in the United States, can speak any language they wish, without fear of punishment. At least, that's the way it's supposed to be.
1
WOW! Citizenship for sale to undocumented Mexican workers? Most Spanish-speaking youth, by the way, are very eager to learn English. But your post is just so angry and so confused.
At this point, it is clear from the hypocrisy of this administration that they have little to no real interest in doing any good for our nation. Bring jobs back? They just increased the level of outsourcing and issued tens of thousands more guest worker visas. Make the country safe? They're strengthening relations with nations that harbored the worst of terrorists. Keep manufacturing local? The President's own companies outsource production to a host of Asian nations.
Personally, I don't think all of these things are bad for our nation (especially encouraging the best workers and academics to come here) - my point is that these were exactly the things that this administration vowed to "fix" but is doing precisely the opposite.
It is likely that this Congress and administration are simply a smokescreen for powerful industrial and financial interests to quietly gain power and influence behind the scenes while citizens are misled and defocused by conscienceless Congresspersons and a dangerously clueless President and a media that is unable to see past the fog.
Personally, I don't think all of these things are bad for our nation (especially encouraging the best workers and academics to come here) - my point is that these were exactly the things that this administration vowed to "fix" but is doing precisely the opposite.
It is likely that this Congress and administration are simply a smokescreen for powerful industrial and financial interests to quietly gain power and influence behind the scenes while citizens are misled and defocused by conscienceless Congresspersons and a dangerously clueless President and a media that is unable to see past the fog.
63
Terrorism in Europe is nothing new. There were terror attacks before open borders. It is a fact of modern life, not easily solved. Anyone of a certain age will remember Baader-Meinhof, Red Brigades, northern Ireland. Look to your history before suggesting solutions that might sound useful but likey miss the underlying problem.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/a-history-of-terrorism-in-...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/a-history-of-terrorism-in-...
History also teaches us that those organizations are now, well, history. And Germany and Ireland didn't get there by banning immigration based on religion - so I'm unclear as to what you're trying to say. Of course there will always be individuals and groups that use militancy or terror as ways of trying to bring change - but you don't solve that problem by maligning an entire religion. You solve it by better and cleverer screening and intelligence gathering and vetting of people who want to be here in the US.
The greatest effect of this election on me is to wonder daily, "What country did Trump grow up in? Why does he have none of the American values I believed were my heritage in this country? How come he is so different from the models of democracy I thought were put forth in my elementary school books?" I do not recognize this American at the head of the country. Where did he come from? I am an old woman now, and it has taken a long time for me to lose my innocent belief in America's goodness and greatness, but the Trump's brand of "making America great again" makes me shiver with fear. God help these immigrants and all who would come here for protection and a better life.
3
I would like to raise a related question. What does ISIS in the Middle East have to do with terrorism in the U.S.?
Most of the recent acts of terrorism in the U.S., such as the Orlando Pulse shootings, have been committed by native born citizens. These people are deranged sociopaths who have more in common with Timothy McVeigh or Dylann Roof than they do with ISIS. The same is true of recent terror attacks in the U.K. and Europe.
Sure, some of these American terrorists may claim to identify with the ideology of ISIS, and ISIS may take credit for their acts after the fact. But the reality is that most of them are deranged mass murderers born in our country.
So how does this travel ban make us safer?
It is true that the 9/11 hijackers were foreign born and trained. But no incidents by foreign born terrorists have happened in the U.S. since then, so the vetting we already have in place is working. And 15 of those 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, a country somehow immune from the travel ban.
Most of the recent acts of terrorism in the U.S., such as the Orlando Pulse shootings, have been committed by native born citizens. These people are deranged sociopaths who have more in common with Timothy McVeigh or Dylann Roof than they do with ISIS. The same is true of recent terror attacks in the U.K. and Europe.
Sure, some of these American terrorists may claim to identify with the ideology of ISIS, and ISIS may take credit for their acts after the fact. But the reality is that most of them are deranged mass murderers born in our country.
So how does this travel ban make us safer?
It is true that the 9/11 hijackers were foreign born and trained. But no incidents by foreign born terrorists have happened in the U.S. since then, so the vetting we already have in place is working. And 15 of those 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, a country somehow immune from the travel ban.
131
I take issue with your statement that there have been no acts of terror by foreign-born actors. The Tsarneav brothers, who did the Boston Marathon bombings, were foreign-born. However, one example doesn't really contradict your main point that we have more to fear from native-born people like the perpetrators of the massacres at places like Sandy Hook School.
2
Kayleigh, you are correct, and I worded that poorly. Also, the wife in the San Bernadino shooting was born in Pakistan. The husband was U.S.-born.
I should have written that no foreign nationals have entered the U.S. from any of the travel ban nations and committed terrorist acts since 9/11.
I should have written that no foreign nationals have entered the U.S. from any of the travel ban nations and committed terrorist acts since 9/11.
2
I'm all for a world without borders, people's freedom to wear a hijab or burka, laws agaisnt hate speech like they have in the EU that allow prosecution for what Muslims deem blasphemy, a dwindling white Christian minority, and pretty much everything else in the progressive demographic program.
But let's be practical about this, shall we?
Coming out and saying these things is political suicide. Coming out and saying that we want more immigration from Muslim countries is also political suicide. Most Americans just aren't ready for a demographic change program that involves importing a group as foreign to Judeo-Christian American and Western values as Muslims tend to be.
When weighing this, they're going to remember 9/11, San Bernardino, Boston, and The Pulse shooting. They're going to weigh it agaisnt terror cases in the U.K., Germany, and France. They're going to weigh it agaisnt the non-stop parade of horrors that we see taking place - in the name of Allah - across the Middle East and increasingly across sub-Saharan Africa.
So my advice to all of us is to soft pedal this program like crazy. Don't talk about how effective and broad Trump's program is - because it's going to backfire on us. A lot of our own fellow-travelers on economic justice and other Democrats are going to like Trump's approach. We already have a lot of comments below, from Democrats, saying as much.
So let's be practical, and maybe not call so much attention this? Most Americans like this.
But let's be practical about this, shall we?
Coming out and saying these things is political suicide. Coming out and saying that we want more immigration from Muslim countries is also political suicide. Most Americans just aren't ready for a demographic change program that involves importing a group as foreign to Judeo-Christian American and Western values as Muslims tend to be.
When weighing this, they're going to remember 9/11, San Bernardino, Boston, and The Pulse shooting. They're going to weigh it agaisnt terror cases in the U.K., Germany, and France. They're going to weigh it agaisnt the non-stop parade of horrors that we see taking place - in the name of Allah - across the Middle East and increasingly across sub-Saharan Africa.
So my advice to all of us is to soft pedal this program like crazy. Don't talk about how effective and broad Trump's program is - because it's going to backfire on us. A lot of our own fellow-travelers on economic justice and other Democrats are going to like Trump's approach. We already have a lot of comments below, from Democrats, saying as much.
So let's be practical, and maybe not call so much attention this? Most Americans like this.
15
No, "most Americans" do not.
3
Well, if you want to be practical about this then how about this Muslim Ban probably being the reason that the US will be losing billions of dollars? And the thousands of jobs that would be supported by NOT having a Muslim Ban?
First, Los Angeles is currently competing with Paris to host the Olympic Games in 2024 and 2028. This decision will be made soon. It is hard to believe that the Olympic Committee will choose a country that bans athletes and spectators based on their religion and home countries.
Second, US universities are already losing out. For decades, US universities relied on foreign students to help cover their costs, and now a lot of these very lucrative foreign students are choosing to study in countries where they will not be discriminated against. And these are not just students from Muslim countries; other foreigners are not feeling welcome here anymore either.
Third, tourism to the US has been declined by 16% since Trump took office. We are just not seen as a friendly and welcoming nation anymore. Foreigners are worried, and rightfully so.
First, Los Angeles is currently competing with Paris to host the Olympic Games in 2024 and 2028. This decision will be made soon. It is hard to believe that the Olympic Committee will choose a country that bans athletes and spectators based on their religion and home countries.
Second, US universities are already losing out. For decades, US universities relied on foreign students to help cover their costs, and now a lot of these very lucrative foreign students are choosing to study in countries where they will not be discriminated against. And these are not just students from Muslim countries; other foreigners are not feeling welcome here anymore either.
Third, tourism to the US has been declined by 16% since Trump took office. We are just not seen as a friendly and welcoming nation anymore. Foreigners are worried, and rightfully so.
Prez Trump wants to keep Muslim visas and possible immigration down to a trickle! A "phobia" is an IRRATIONAL fear of something as in "Islamophobia." But what if the fear IS rational? Could these situations be a clue? https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Muslims+riot+london+ or this: https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=Muslims+riot+germany Not all Muslims want to convert infidel customs and culture to their liking but, as Europe discovered, too many do. We don't need to discover it here!
1
Trump's first foreign state visit was to Saudi Arabia - the sword dance, gold medal and creepy orb. When he addressed the 50 or so autocrats from Sunni nations, he didn't have the courage to use his favorite phrase: Radical Islam (Trump regularly cowers when in front of people - never backing up his bluster). Saudi Arabia is the source of Wahhabism - the poison that is the ideological foundation of AQ and ISIS. Autocrats like Egypt's Sisi and the other 50 autocrats/dictators create the oppression that breeds terrorism. Even that pathetic and ignorant alliance is falling apart immediately: it is now Qatar and Turkey and Iran vs. Saudi Arabia and UAE and Egypt. For money - oil, weapons, Trump properties - Trump allies with the very countries that help create AQ and ISIS. And for the 40% of Americans who lack knowledge and intellect but are filled with xenophobic hatred for the other, Trump's Muslim Ban (being implemented) and empty Radical Islam phrase - that not only don't make us safer, but provide perfect propaganda wins for AQ and ISIS - are all they need.
117
I believe our dear friends the Saudis are set to execute an additional 14 protesters by beheading, some of them minors. Is that not terrorism?
1
There is some missing information in this article. "Visas issued ...were down 55 percent". But how many applications were submitted? What was the denial rate? Visa applications are expensive. If I'm from Syria and I hear news that there is increased scrutiny and increased denials, I'm probably going to save my cash and not apply at all. Not all people are puppets, and I think there are a lot of hard working professionals in the State Department who value their profession and will adjudicate visas accordingly and they have been regardless of the which administration is in power. This op-ed is insulting to those foreign service professionals who live and work in difficult environments to try to make a dent at keeping bad people out so you can feel safe at home. Look beyond the numbers, or at least show all the numbers. Or better yet, go visit a visa line in a busy consulate. Then pass judgment.
15
sherry--The NYT is becoming known for misleading headlines, and promoting rumors. What's up with that? I may have to stick with The Guardian.
1
And this is very valid reason why the International Olympic Committee should automatically disregard Los Angeles application to host an Olympic games in the latest round of bids. If the ban is bad now, just imagine how difficult, if not impossible, it will be for Muslim athletes to get the visas needed to compete then.
30
“populations warranting increased scrutiny.”
Without stating which populations (i.e. countries) are receiving increased scrutiny, the claim of a Muslim ban is baseless.
Assuming the countries are the same ones in the travel ban currently before the courts, then the claim of a "Muslim ban" is beyond alarmist, since the vast majority of Muslims in the world are not impacted.
Without stating which populations (i.e. countries) are receiving increased scrutiny, the claim of a Muslim ban is baseless.
Assuming the countries are the same ones in the travel ban currently before the courts, then the claim of a "Muslim ban" is beyond alarmist, since the vast majority of Muslims in the world are not impacted.
9
Afghanistan is not on Trump’s travel ban list. Girl’s Robotic teams from Iran, Syria, and Sudan, which are on the travel ban list, received visas without presidential intervention. Afghanistan is not on the travel ban list. Robotic teams from Iran, Syria, Sudan, which are on the travel ban list, received visas without presidential intervention. Visas are hard to get in Afghanistan because 40 percent of the country is controlled by the Taliban. According to State Department data from the State Department, just 112 business visas for visitors from Afghanistan, like those the robotics team requested, were granted in May of 2017. By comparison, 256 were granted to Syrians, 780 to Iraqis and 1,091 to Iranians.
11
"Among nearly 50 Muslim-majority countries, nonimmigrant visas declined almost 20 percent in April, compared with the monthly average from 2016. Visas issued to people from Iran, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen, the six countries on the travel ban list, were down 55 percent. "
Wait, what? Only 6 of 50 Muslim-majority countries, all with hostile governments that will not or cannot, thoroughly vet people fleeing their shores, are primarily affected? That's not a ban; that's facing a geopolitical reality head on.
The president's first duty is to protect America, not promote international travel. Those 6 countries can't (or won't) even provide basic vetting checks, like fingerprint criminal background computer printouts or the equivalent of social security numbers.
Wait, what? Only 6 of 50 Muslim-majority countries, all with hostile governments that will not or cannot, thoroughly vet people fleeing their shores, are primarily affected? That's not a ban; that's facing a geopolitical reality head on.
The president's first duty is to protect America, not promote international travel. Those 6 countries can't (or won't) even provide basic vetting checks, like fingerprint criminal background computer printouts or the equivalent of social security numbers.
31
"Conservative" Democrat (okay...)--Those COUNTRIES do not do the vetting. American embassies do it.
1
That could be an argument to make...if the president was not every day before the election arguing for a "complete shutdown of muslims entering this country until we can figure out what the hell is going on" and if Rudy Giuliani didn't go on national TV and tell us all this was Trump's way of doing a legal muslim ban.
2
The US can only do proper vetting with the cooperation of the applicant's country. Come on, man.
1
The Arab countries, namely Egypt and Saudi Arabia where militant form of religious indoctrination is cultivated should be added to the list of banned countries to lend credence to the objective of the Trump administration
25
Dear Sir, g'day,
You forgot Turkey, another fine example of religious indoctrination and disregard for
freedom.
Regards
You forgot Turkey, another fine example of religious indoctrination and disregard for
freedom.
Regards
2
"....will hand the leadership of the world to China."
A monocultural China will be a far more pleasant place than America's hell-on-earth multiculturalism. I'd rather live in a monocultural anthill than in the
allochthonous dystopia our anti-white racists are preparing for us.
A monocultural China will be a far more pleasant place than America's hell-on-earth multiculturalism. I'd rather live in a monocultural anthill than in the
allochthonous dystopia our anti-white racists are preparing for us.
1
F. Ahmed--Looks like Turkey, like Saudi Arabia, want to start beheading people for minor crimes. Isn't THAT a good reason to add these to the "list?"
2
Rob Campbell says we have the right to vet anyone who enters our country, as if President Obama didn't put in place comprehensive vetting.
The real question is, how do we vet those who already live here, and express views so profoundly antithetical to all that is dear and sacred to the American spirit?
www.remember-to-breathe.org
The real question is, how do we vet those who already live here, and express views so profoundly antithetical to all that is dear and sacred to the American spirit?
www.remember-to-breathe.org
25
Don--Most of our "home grown" radicals were radicalized an average of 4 years AFTER they got to the U.S. What a surprise. Not.
There are very few persons in the current administration who might know anything about things like "emergency review". One would be President Bannon, close second, Steven Miller. Maybe he's first, we just don't know. Events surrounding the Afghani girls' robotics team is evidence of this.
2
The ban is negative is every way possible, but it does satisfy Trump's ego, and his base of bigots love every thing he does, successful or not....
Nothing else can be said, he is playing to Bigots and they are winning
Nothing else can be said, he is playing to Bigots and they are winning
12
Evidently you didn't lose or have maimed anyone in the Major Nidal shooting, the Boston Bombing and similar attacks over seas. I await with interest your point of view when your son or daughter is murdered by having a throat cut, or legs blown off in a bombing. Then you can discuss bigotry. I want American citizens protected. We don't need people who will never become patriotic Americans, who will never assimilate, who will plot and execute plots to murder Americans, who practice polygamy.
3
The US is primarily a nation of immigrants which now strangely seems to fear immigration. Turning against immigration is another very clear sign that we have reached our apex and are declining into fear and paranoia, which partly explains the appeal of Trump. The US is ceding its leadership role in the world and starting the process of isolating itself economically. I just do not see how any of this can end well.
It may have been inevitable anyway but this administration's misguided and ignorant policies will hand the leadership of the world to China. Hang on for the ride folks it is all downhill from here.
It may have been inevitable anyway but this administration's misguided and ignorant policies will hand the leadership of the world to China. Hang on for the ride folks it is all downhill from here.
17
Just how many people is the US supposed to take in? And when did the Left so caring about the environmental impact of growing populations?
15
Past generations have feared the Irish, Italians, Germans, Japanese, among others, but, they don't count now as most are white. So they are 'like us'.
"No Irish need apply", those signs were everywhere someone might apply for a very entry level job. They were here legally. But were hated for being different. Some of their differences are still 'joked' about. All Irish are drunks. All Italians are fat. Some are still looked at with fear. Germans & Japanese. Though Italy was part of the Axis they aren't feared. Those who fear those different have decided they are too funny to be scary. Of course the English are always welcome. I think many of these bigots wish we were still English, instead of American.
What they are really looking for is a country where making your own decisions is illegal. If you never make a decision, you are never wrong. They also want everyone to be as ignorant as they are. Teaching their children to not to continue to learn to read when they can at a 2nd grade level, or count change to a dollar. Never to listen in History, Geography, Math, Science (heavens NO), & of course Sex Ed. Never ever, they are all lies. Drop out as soon as they can, take any low wage job, it's the way things should be for everyone. You don't want to learn to much, will make you an uppity elite, which keeps the 'real' people down.
"No Irish need apply", those signs were everywhere someone might apply for a very entry level job. They were here legally. But were hated for being different. Some of their differences are still 'joked' about. All Irish are drunks. All Italians are fat. Some are still looked at with fear. Germans & Japanese. Though Italy was part of the Axis they aren't feared. Those who fear those different have decided they are too funny to be scary. Of course the English are always welcome. I think many of these bigots wish we were still English, instead of American.
What they are really looking for is a country where making your own decisions is illegal. If you never make a decision, you are never wrong. They also want everyone to be as ignorant as they are. Teaching their children to not to continue to learn to read when they can at a 2nd grade level, or count change to a dollar. Never to listen in History, Geography, Math, Science (heavens NO), & of course Sex Ed. Never ever, they are all lies. Drop out as soon as they can, take any low wage job, it's the way things should be for everyone. You don't want to learn to much, will make you an uppity elite, which keeps the 'real' people down.
There really is no nuance to this subject. This administration is racist.
These are the things that need to be done ( in order )
1. End the wars\occupation in the Middle East
2. Massive infusion of social aid to rebuild their countries.
3. Vote Liberal in the midterms
4. Vote Liberal in 2020 ( to change administration policy\tactics )
5. Steal back that SCOTUS seat AND add one more Liberal for a majority
6. Keep up the pressure and remain vigilant
I fear that other than (6), everything else is on hold and there will be a lot of pain, confusion and tears along the way.
These are the things that need to be done ( in order )
1. End the wars\occupation in the Middle East
2. Massive infusion of social aid to rebuild their countries.
3. Vote Liberal in the midterms
4. Vote Liberal in 2020 ( to change administration policy\tactics )
5. Steal back that SCOTUS seat AND add one more Liberal for a majority
6. Keep up the pressure and remain vigilant
I fear that other than (6), everything else is on hold and there will be a lot of pain, confusion and tears along the way.
13
I don't know if number 5 is legally possible, although I know I'd want that to be so. I would still like to see democrats try to impeach Justice Gorsuch. I don't think you can impeach a man for being such a sellout, but it be nice if they tried. Any man with respect and decency would have turned down the position politely and said "thank you but no thank you that position rightfully belongs to Merrick Garland". #2 is in no way politically possible either . The rest could very well happen, and I hope this country wakes up
1
@Michael
It's going to be a very interesting few years ( very tense that no one passes away on the court ) I concur with your sentiment, that the man should have declined. That really would have forced republicans' hands, and I am not sure what they would have done then,
Anyways, as far the rest, there are plenty of things the west could do for the Middle East. ( stop bombarding and the occupation would be first ) We could then infuse talent, labor and the like without cold hard cash. (teaching as an example)
Do what I just lad out and it would cut immigration in half. (my best guess) Everything would start to add up right quick.
Got to get that oil though ...
It's going to be a very interesting few years ( very tense that no one passes away on the court ) I concur with your sentiment, that the man should have declined. That really would have forced republicans' hands, and I am not sure what they would have done then,
Anyways, as far the rest, there are plenty of things the west could do for the Middle East. ( stop bombarding and the occupation would be first ) We could then infuse talent, labor and the like without cold hard cash. (teaching as an example)
Do what I just lad out and it would cut immigration in half. (my best guess) Everything would start to add up right quick.
Got to get that oil though ...
2
Under threat of loss of health care and with rampaging economic dsparity between 99% and 1% of us, I can't imagine many takers for worrying about limits on Muslim immigration or deporting illegal immigrants who drive unlicensed. There's only so much outrage one can sustain. I'll save mine for Americans.
11
Then you don't have a very good imagination.
1
He's doing what he promised to do. Where was all the outrage when Obama went out side the system and executive ordered anything he felt like? You use the term insidious, I think it's more like using the tools available. Some liberal judge in hawaii doesn't get to decide national policy.
17
Please cite an example of Obama doing that.
I guess being liberal and from Hawaii somehow rates being dismissive.
The pathological liar currently inhabiting the office of the President, his lying son, his lying son-in-law, his daughter's clothing manufactured abroad being hawked by the president' spokesperson directly from the white house and the incompetent sycophants he has surrounded himself with (Flynn, Devos, Carson) are a far greater danger to the country than ANY person who has ever been granted entry into the county.
The pathological liar currently inhabiting the office of the President, his lying son, his lying son-in-law, his daughter's clothing manufactured abroad being hawked by the president' spokesperson directly from the white house and the incompetent sycophants he has surrounded himself with (Flynn, Devos, Carson) are a far greater danger to the country than ANY person who has ever been granted entry into the county.
1
When commentators say Muslims won't adjust to our way of life and adapt to our values, I wonder what they have in mind. The way people dress? We have lots of Americans who wear distinctive dress. Following the laws where they live? I think American Muslims follow the laws where they live as well as any other Americans. Without specifics, the statements I'm reading seem meaningless and prejudiced.
132
Muslims in all Christian countries try to force the establishment of Sharia courts to circumvent the mores of the host countries. Why are Muslim countries not being forced to take Jews and Christians as new citizens? Why are they not allowing the establishment of temples and churches? Why is it that safe, civilized countries must take seventh century people, and the primitive countries do not reciprocate? It is as if the leadership of safe, civilized countries are doctors who say, "My patients do not have cancer, people in those other countries have cancer. We must bring cancer here to infect our citizens to make life "fair"."
2
Hejab is a lot more than "distinctive dress." It's a clear indication of how Islam treats women. It's not bigotry, xenophobia, or religious intolerance to say that Islam is not compatible with Western values. The extreme vetting should not be restricted to screening applicants for terrorism ties; it should also be done to uncover how friendly to Western values someone who's entering our country is.
1
I think you don't know much about most people in most Muslim majority countries. I've lived in 2 and found the people just fine. What is the source for your statement that they "try to force the establishment of Sharia courts?" I think that is not true from my experience. Also many Muslim people are well educated and modern!
2
We cannot hold international meetings in the United States any longer. Bona fide scholars, scientists and businesspersons can not be assured of visas. We are going to Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean now. Tourism is also impossible. This is hurting our economy and our national image even further than it has suffered by electing Trump. For shame.
26
Right. All those PhDs from Yeman no longer contributing to academia.
And those Yeman tourist dollars no longer flowing through the US. No wonder our economy is suffering.
And those Yeman tourist dollars no longer flowing through the US. No wonder our economy is suffering.
4
Yep. You will be real safe in Mexico. They are a liberal beacon of justice.
3
I am not talking about Yemeni academics (though there are a number of them who have made and continue to make significant contributions to knowledge). We are talking about Chinese, Brits, Latin American, French and other Europeans. I have nothing but contempt for people who think that international conferences--academic and business--are irrelevant to their lives and to the well being of the nation. It shows rank ignorance.
4
Past presidents have kept out certain groups for various reasons. But the current attempt to limit immigration from six targeted countries appears to be the first time the limitation was imposed because of persistent bad behavior by some members of the targeted group. This reason has more legitimacy than some of the ones before-- dislike because of nationality, low class, wrong religion and so on.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigrant-ban-history-20170130-story...
https://www.voanews.com/a/united-states-history-of-immigration-restricti...
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigrant-ban-history-20170130-story...
https://www.voanews.com/a/united-states-history-of-immigration-restricti...
5
What a wonderful piece of propaganda for those recruiting for extremism. How much safer will Americans be who need to travel or live in any of the countries the Trump Administration is targeting. Americans should not be surprised when visa applications are rejected in the future. I would hazard the American military complex has killed and injured more innocent Muslims than the case in reverse.
5
The Muslim population in the U.S. is bigger than all countries in the ban COMBINED. Furthermore, religious profiling is legal.
But discrimination based on religion is not. What that means in the long run, is that U.S. muslims enjoy better lives and better prospects than any country in the world. Take for example Europe, where discrimination based on religion is legal. For example the ban on head scarves, and scant penetration of muslims in the media, or business, or educational elite. It's not a glass ceiling they face, but permanence in ghettos and social welfare.
While here, the opposite's the case. But it only works in limited numbers. The authors can do a lot more good for their flock if they tackle problems faced by their brethren already legally and permanently here. So more can feature in lists of notable Muslims found on Wiki (google it). Ultimately, a prosperous and successful U.S. Muslim community can do a lot more good abroad than opening the floodgates and diluting lives here.
Fact is, the world needs a people ban too. We're at 7.5 billion, more than double of in 1971. And yes, we need fewer grizzly bears, and African elephants. And California, wish we could just cut them loose. Too bad Trump can't order them away.
Which may explain why Bezos is pouring billions in space. Nobody understands population excess like Bezos. Just the thought of new warehouses for the new billions probably keeps him up at night.
I digress. Ah yes, the ban. It's OK.
But discrimination based on religion is not. What that means in the long run, is that U.S. muslims enjoy better lives and better prospects than any country in the world. Take for example Europe, where discrimination based on religion is legal. For example the ban on head scarves, and scant penetration of muslims in the media, or business, or educational elite. It's not a glass ceiling they face, but permanence in ghettos and social welfare.
While here, the opposite's the case. But it only works in limited numbers. The authors can do a lot more good for their flock if they tackle problems faced by their brethren already legally and permanently here. So more can feature in lists of notable Muslims found on Wiki (google it). Ultimately, a prosperous and successful U.S. Muslim community can do a lot more good abroad than opening the floodgates and diluting lives here.
Fact is, the world needs a people ban too. We're at 7.5 billion, more than double of in 1971. And yes, we need fewer grizzly bears, and African elephants. And California, wish we could just cut them loose. Too bad Trump can't order them away.
Which may explain why Bezos is pouring billions in space. Nobody understands population excess like Bezos. Just the thought of new warehouses for the new billions probably keeps him up at night.
I digress. Ah yes, the ban. It's OK.
6
One of the very few things where Trump is absolutely right and I wish we in Europe would learn from him. I want an absolute ban on immigration by muslims. Excluding only those who are actually trying to escape from Islam and denounce it, instead of bringing it into our countries.
20
GS has it backwards. To the extent that Trump creates a segregated society in which Muslims are isolated, it is Trump who is learning from Europe, and within a decade or two his policies will bear fruit in the kinds of homegrown terrorist attacks we have seen over there in recent years.
Wrong. Our muslims live segregated because we never put any pressure on them to assimilate like the U.S. always did with its strong national identity. E pluribus unum. Here, there is nothing like that, the ruling cultural leftist elite hates everything German and always actively discouraged immigrants from integrating into German society. Nowadays, they even openly demand that Germans need to integrate with the immigrants, because those are better people in their view. A German can only be a good person if he advocates totally open borders and actively works for the dissolution of the German people.
This may not be widely known outside of Germany, but Merkel actually avoids even the term "German people/population" nowadays and instead prefers to speak of "those who have already lived here for a while longer".
The result is that muslims came here to profit from the material prosperity and good social safety net, while otherwise simply transplanting their clan structures and social laws and values to German or European soil. Here, there was more freedom for extremist or strictly conservative Islamic life than in most home countries, which is why for example the Turks in Germany are actually much more religiously conservative (= extreme) than the average Turk in Turkey, and are now a key constituency for Erdogan. Their loyalty lies with him, not with Germany or its people. Bizarre, but true. And we did it to ourselves.
This may not be widely known outside of Germany, but Merkel actually avoids even the term "German people/population" nowadays and instead prefers to speak of "those who have already lived here for a while longer".
The result is that muslims came here to profit from the material prosperity and good social safety net, while otherwise simply transplanting their clan structures and social laws and values to German or European soil. Here, there was more freedom for extremist or strictly conservative Islamic life than in most home countries, which is why for example the Turks in Germany are actually much more religiously conservative (= extreme) than the average Turk in Turkey, and are now a key constituency for Erdogan. Their loyalty lies with him, not with Germany or its people. Bizarre, but true. And we did it to ourselves.
Today on our local radio news there was a story about an Iranian Canadian teen girl who had been treated for osteogenic sarcoma of her knee. She had a grant from the MAKE A WISH FOUNDATION. They provide grants to youth with life threatening disease. She wanted to go to New York to visit UNICEF to learn about starting a foundation to help others. Long story short the Trump govt. banned her because of her Iranian roots.
12
And we wonder how youth becomes prejudiced! The impact of this will trickle down, stirring the hate pot against Americans.
The government authors of the 9/11 report clearly addressed foreign youth, ramifications of their strife, encouraging ultimately untoward activity toward Americans.
Surely Donald Trump has read the report..... Surely he has considered all the written research out there.....Surely he takes all his foreign knowledge into consideration before invoking his "new policies" regarding foreign travel and travelers.....Surely he would never just single out one religious group, after all, he himself has such deep seated religious values.....
Oh, that's right, Donald Trump has no time to do the above tasks. He's too busy tweeting nonsense.
The government authors of the 9/11 report clearly addressed foreign youth, ramifications of their strife, encouraging ultimately untoward activity toward Americans.
Surely Donald Trump has read the report..... Surely he has considered all the written research out there.....Surely he takes all his foreign knowledge into consideration before invoking his "new policies" regarding foreign travel and travelers.....Surely he would never just single out one religious group, after all, he himself has such deep seated religious values.....
Oh, that's right, Donald Trump has no time to do the above tasks. He's too busy tweeting nonsense.
7
The other aspect is Trump's feint about the "Deep State" - that the Civil Service is sabotaging his initiatives. So far, it seems quite the contrary.
Back in January, when the original travel ban went into effect (before it was struck down by the courts), I don't know of a single case where a TSA employee refused to carry out the ban (or even err on the side of humanitarianism in borderline cases) out of conscience during those initial hours characterized by confusion about the law's application at the airports.
And although there have been a couple of notable resignations (not necessarily linked to the Muslim ban), the State Department and U.S. embassy network seem to be going along with Trump's stealth plan.
In Germany, they like to say that in 1942, you couldn't find anyone in the Civil Service who wasn't a Nazi; and in 1946, you couldn't find anyone who had been a Nazi.
Some say that our intelligence services are leaking scandals to get back at Trump for attacking them so directly. I hope that's true. But I still worry that the rank and file Federal Government will just go along with Trump's missives. And don't forget that Trump's allies control most of the governorships and state houses. For the moment, the courts represent the only effective government branch of resistance, but that may change if Trump gets another Supreme Court pick.
Back in January, when the original travel ban went into effect (before it was struck down by the courts), I don't know of a single case where a TSA employee refused to carry out the ban (or even err on the side of humanitarianism in borderline cases) out of conscience during those initial hours characterized by confusion about the law's application at the airports.
And although there have been a couple of notable resignations (not necessarily linked to the Muslim ban), the State Department and U.S. embassy network seem to be going along with Trump's stealth plan.
In Germany, they like to say that in 1942, you couldn't find anyone in the Civil Service who wasn't a Nazi; and in 1946, you couldn't find anyone who had been a Nazi.
Some say that our intelligence services are leaking scandals to get back at Trump for attacking them so directly. I hope that's true. But I still worry that the rank and file Federal Government will just go along with Trump's missives. And don't forget that Trump's allies control most of the governorships and state houses. For the moment, the courts represent the only effective government branch of resistance, but that may change if Trump gets another Supreme Court pick.
4
This article is offensive.
First it asserts there is a Muslim ban, without giving convincing supportive evidence. The numbers don't back up the argument. If the number of visas granted to Indonesians is significantly down, then I would grant that as some evidence in her direction. Indonesia is the largest majority Muslim country and is not on the list;
More importantly, it doesn't give any acknowledgement that there have been real substantive threats and acts of terror by incoming slims, and that is a cause for concern. Not to even give this a "to be sure" indicates such a tremendous blind prejudice on the matter, that it serves to push this moderate voter, not a Trump supporter, to feel more aligned with Trump than her poorly argued OpEd.
First it asserts there is a Muslim ban, without giving convincing supportive evidence. The numbers don't back up the argument. If the number of visas granted to Indonesians is significantly down, then I would grant that as some evidence in her direction. Indonesia is the largest majority Muslim country and is not on the list;
More importantly, it doesn't give any acknowledgement that there have been real substantive threats and acts of terror by incoming slims, and that is a cause for concern. Not to even give this a "to be sure" indicates such a tremendous blind prejudice on the matter, that it serves to push this moderate voter, not a Trump supporter, to feel more aligned with Trump than her poorly argued OpEd.
16
Why is a 120-day "temporary" ban needed to review the vetting practices? He has been in office 178 days. This is clearly a political move built on fear mongering that continually stokes the public paranoia.
6
The travel ban is an example of humanity at work at the lowest level. As the world changes, as population grows, as interactions become more fractious, America needs to use its best minds to navigate the changing tides. Instead we elect a thoroughgoing con-man who caters to the lowest instincts and emotions of his supporters. People say elections have consequences. So too do wars. So do civilian casualties. So do decades of exploitation and of support for bloody-handed tyrants.
4
Since when had US immigration favored the "best minds?"
It's been a tremendous show of respect for courts that don't deserve it to have waited this long to do what the executive obviously has the authority to do. When judges adhere to their politics instead of the law, we are finished.
6
He's charged with keeping the country safe, he doesn't have the luxury of adopting all the rules bleeding hearts are asking for.
I'm all for it and hope it gets even tougher.
I'm all for it and hope it gets even tougher.
11
yes, trump was praised by some for "rescuing" them from petty officials but in reality, it was his policies that caused the problems
I don't think he has the intelligence to organize this effort. Please highlight those responsible in further reporting.
Something wicked this way comes.
Something wicked this way comes.
2
If the US bans or restricts Middle Easterners and Muslims from entering its territory, there should also be a reciprocal ban on the US military invading, occupying and setting up bases in these countries.
Self respect demands a modicum of reciprocity.
Self respect demands a modicum of reciprocity.
5
Additional chilling effects will occur that disincline travel to the USA, as Australia is discovering to its horror.
Be afraid.
Be afraid.
3
Our problem is not muslim, but, rather too many christians. Not that we should ban them, but perhaps there should be a preference for the nonreligious.
8
"A Muslim ban, even when implemented through seemingly mundane bureaucratic processes, simply has no place in our country." - I agree.
1
Perversely, Trump took credit for helping the Afghan girls robotics team, instead of blame for the impediments they faced.
3
This ban is not "stealthy." The majority of Americans (minus a majority of NY Times readers) do not want our country overwhelmed by Muslim immigrants, who show little interest in assimilating into our culture. They bring traditions like low status for women, hatred of homosexuals, and a preference for their own system of laws. They try to makeover established schools, businesses, and communities to suit the lifestyle they bring with them. This is in addition to the tendency of their young men to radicalize and cause harm and mayhem to the country that has admitted them.
The proposed travel ban is more popular, and needed, than a judge in Hawaii and readers of the NY Times imagine. There is nothing stealth about it.
The proposed travel ban is more popular, and needed, than a judge in Hawaii and readers of the NY Times imagine. There is nothing stealth about it.
19
"They bring traditions like low status for women, hatred of homosexuals, and a preference for their own system of laws." Sounds like religious extremists in general, including our own home-grown evangelicals. I agree with you that I don't want a country overwhelmed by these folks - and yet a number of them occupy high places in government (see Pence and DeVos).
3
There is a concept floating around that Muslim emigration to the United States is a threat to our values. Calls to mind the old joke easily found on the internet:
The LoneRanger & Tonto are riding down into a box canyon. At the far end, the LoneRanger notices an army of Comanche Indians, in full war-paint, frowning down from the cliff walls at him.
Turning to his left he notices a great number of very mad looking Arapaho Indians staring down.
On his right he observes a host of Cherokee Indians peering at him over the rim of the canyon.
Looking behind, he sees every Apache brave in the world slowly creeping into the canyon, blocking the exit.
The LoneRanger turns to Tonto and says, "We're in a heap of trouble, Tonto!"
Tonto's nervous reply, "Uhh...who do you mean we, pale-face?"
Well, yes, the Lone Ranger saw trouble. Part of that trouble is competition for social justice. One way it grows is by offering much needed social programs and a sense of purpose taken as advancing the righteousness of Allah (God). Close the doors, they're coming in the windows. Rather, some apparently are alarmed at the rate of conversion to Islam in this country; and perhaps a healthy birth rate. People sing 'Jesus is the answer'; they elected Donald Trump.
The LoneRanger & Tonto are riding down into a box canyon. At the far end, the LoneRanger notices an army of Comanche Indians, in full war-paint, frowning down from the cliff walls at him.
Turning to his left he notices a great number of very mad looking Arapaho Indians staring down.
On his right he observes a host of Cherokee Indians peering at him over the rim of the canyon.
Looking behind, he sees every Apache brave in the world slowly creeping into the canyon, blocking the exit.
The LoneRanger turns to Tonto and says, "We're in a heap of trouble, Tonto!"
Tonto's nervous reply, "Uhh...who do you mean we, pale-face?"
Well, yes, the Lone Ranger saw trouble. Part of that trouble is competition for social justice. One way it grows is by offering much needed social programs and a sense of purpose taken as advancing the righteousness of Allah (God). Close the doors, they're coming in the windows. Rather, some apparently are alarmed at the rate of conversion to Islam in this country; and perhaps a healthy birth rate. People sing 'Jesus is the answer'; they elected Donald Trump.
1
To be honest, I fail to see any issue with these rule changes. As a sovereign nation, we are under no obligation to let anyone enter the country and, if someone does not like the visa process, he does not have to come here. Our immigration policy has, for decades, been oriented to letting in entire families instead of focusing on a merit-based, highly restrictive policy. It is entirely reasonable for a nation to enrich its pool of immigrants for those who will integrate and contribute, i.e., melt in the melting pot.
13
But the screening process should be applied equally to all without regard to the applicant's religion or nationality.
6
I see that some of the readers are OK with banning Muslims because we live in an "age of terror". An age of terror? You live in an age of instant, vivid spectacle, not "Terror". 30,000 people a year are killed in auto accidents and an equal number in drug overdoses, while 6 people/year are killed by "Terror". More people are killed by police than by terrorists. ISIS will not take over the world. Heck Communism didn't take over the world and it had a billion or more subjects. ISIS has maybe 50,000 advocates. The mafia was more dangerous.
You have been "Sold". The reason "Terror" is such a watchword is that fear changes the political landscape and Media needs stories with blood to sell content. You and your family are more likely to be struck by lightning.
Terrorism is like an auto accident on the other side of the highway. First, you were not involved and so it does not affect you at all. Second, the people it affects, those stuck behind the accident are not affected by the accident but by the disruption of the orderly flow. Third, on the other side of the divide, there is delay as people try to see the blood. Disruption occurs. Responsible leaders would not amplify the disruptions. Listen carefully.
You have been "Sold". The reason "Terror" is such a watchword is that fear changes the political landscape and Media needs stories with blood to sell content. You and your family are more likely to be struck by lightning.
Terrorism is like an auto accident on the other side of the highway. First, you were not involved and so it does not affect you at all. Second, the people it affects, those stuck behind the accident are not affected by the accident but by the disruption of the orderly flow. Third, on the other side of the divide, there is delay as people try to see the blood. Disruption occurs. Responsible leaders would not amplify the disruptions. Listen carefully.
390
I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. Terrorism is categorically different than other classes of phenomena that result in bodily injury. Acts of terror are designed to terrorize. They turn the pleasurable and the mundane into anxiety ridden, potentially dangerous - and frequently expensive - affairs. Terrorists do this via target selection and through shock. Pop concerts, public transportation, clubs, skyscrapers, cafes, public celebrations, tourist zones, and marathons have all been targeted. The means of attack are as bloody as possible.
That's why people can't look away; because no matter where we go, no matter what we do, any of us could become a future victim. Flying and going to museums now require an extraordinary amount of security screening. What's the alternative - to just ignore it? All this does is create vulnerabilities that invite more attacks.
My job at one point involved studying terror. I spent time in Iraq doing this. The Iraqi government took your advice for much of '04-06, not because they wanted to ignore it, but because they lacked the resources to counter it. The result of persistent, relentless, and horrific terror attacks waged by the Salafi-Sunni agaisnt the Shia was a local level response from the Shia. It basically led to vigilantism on a nation wide scale. This pushed even more Sunni into the arms of the Salafi, which was the Salafi terrorists' primary goal.
If our government does not act to stem the tide of Salafi terror, communities will.
That's why people can't look away; because no matter where we go, no matter what we do, any of us could become a future victim. Flying and going to museums now require an extraordinary amount of security screening. What's the alternative - to just ignore it? All this does is create vulnerabilities that invite more attacks.
My job at one point involved studying terror. I spent time in Iraq doing this. The Iraqi government took your advice for much of '04-06, not because they wanted to ignore it, but because they lacked the resources to counter it. The result of persistent, relentless, and horrific terror attacks waged by the Salafi-Sunni agaisnt the Shia was a local level response from the Shia. It basically led to vigilantism on a nation wide scale. This pushed even more Sunni into the arms of the Salafi, which was the Salafi terrorists' primary goal.
If our government does not act to stem the tide of Salafi terror, communities will.
3
Bill, auto accidents don't result in 3,000 dead on a Sept. morning, they aren't planned (if they are, they are terrorism, not accidents) and we can and have taken many prudent precautions against their occurrence. Not to mention, there are great social benefits to driving - there are none with terrorism.
Your analogy is a false one, in my view. If that makes me "sold," so be it. We can try to reduce incidents of both. The bottom line is that terrorism is very different and there is a reason we try to wipe it out. It makes, in the end, a better world. It doesn't mean it is the only thing. It doesn't mean that we should over react. Whether the pres. orders were over-reaction is a separate question.
Your analogy is a false one, in my view. If that makes me "sold," so be it. We can try to reduce incidents of both. The bottom line is that terrorism is very different and there is a reason we try to wipe it out. It makes, in the end, a better world. It doesn't mean it is the only thing. It doesn't mean that we should over react. Whether the pres. orders were over-reaction is a separate question.
2
William d. trainor
The 6 countries do not have a good or organized way of vetting. Hence Extreme Vetting. It is not about Muslims.
The president wants to keep America safe. It is not about Muslims.
The 6 countries do not have a good or organized way of vetting. Hence Extreme Vetting. It is not about Muslims.
The president wants to keep America safe. It is not about Muslims.
2
As terrifying as Trump's actions have been regarding Muslims, the first two comments here terrify me even more.
In my view, Donald Trump is neither motivated by "careful scrutiny" or his "obligation to keep the country safe".
Trump's "genius" is that he has made a virtue of our reactivity rather than rationality; our fear rather than our knowledge, our bullying impulses rather than our Samaritan; our hateful rather than our loving selves.
Without that, he would not have had a prayer of being elected.
Consider what has happened recently regarding a town called Islamberg, New York. (Google it, and read any article by a reputable news outlet). The residents of the town have been living there for decades, and they have a thoroughly admirable and ongoing relationship with their neighbors and the police. Yet, because of the distant, unfounded suspicions of alt-right media personalities - those who have no knowledge whatsoever of the people in this town other than the faith they profess; threats of violence have been cascading in, and protestors decry the "possibility" that it may be a "terrorist training center".
Variants of this sickness were just as virulently directed at Chinese, Irish, Italian, Caribbean and Jewish immigrants, among many other convenient "others" throughout our short history as a nation - but we so easily forget, or try to convince ourselves that "it is different this time."
Shame on us. God help us learn.
(typo corrected)
In my view, Donald Trump is neither motivated by "careful scrutiny" or his "obligation to keep the country safe".
Trump's "genius" is that he has made a virtue of our reactivity rather than rationality; our fear rather than our knowledge, our bullying impulses rather than our Samaritan; our hateful rather than our loving selves.
Without that, he would not have had a prayer of being elected.
Consider what has happened recently regarding a town called Islamberg, New York. (Google it, and read any article by a reputable news outlet). The residents of the town have been living there for decades, and they have a thoroughly admirable and ongoing relationship with their neighbors and the police. Yet, because of the distant, unfounded suspicions of alt-right media personalities - those who have no knowledge whatsoever of the people in this town other than the faith they profess; threats of violence have been cascading in, and protestors decry the "possibility" that it may be a "terrorist training center".
Variants of this sickness were just as virulently directed at Chinese, Irish, Italian, Caribbean and Jewish immigrants, among many other convenient "others" throughout our short history as a nation - but we so easily forget, or try to convince ourselves that "it is different this time."
Shame on us. God help us learn.
(typo corrected)
247
Ramadan Abdullah was arrested for having a large cache of illegal weapons? It sounds like the authorities are doing their jobs.
4
"Variants of this sickness were just as virulently directed at Chinese, Irish, Italian, Caribbean and Jewish immigrants, among many other convenient "others" throughout our short history as a nation"
It's easier to just say non-English and recently non-German.
It's easier to just say non-English and recently non-German.
1
Not so much shame on us, but shame on Trump for promoting this.
A foundational principle of the United States, though it takes constant work, is the inclusion of diverse peoples. While we haven't been perfect and may never be, Trump is promoting a stark we-they approach that while slogan-ready and appealing to many will act, sooner or later, to our detriment. As has been remarked elsewhere, Trump's "America First" is akin to an isolationist "Fortress America" which, contrary to the bold words, weakens us domestically and internationally.
6
Given its malicious interference with our elections, ought not Russia be added to the list of countries with “populations warranting increased scrutiny"?
28
Yesterday's report that visa issuance might shift from the State Department to Homeland Security is another dimension to this op-ed. Historically the State Department is the lead agency regarding our international relations and visa issuance has been linked to foreign policy considerations. Shifting visa issuance to Homeland Security will politicize the visa process even more than it is now. It underscores the police function rather than the international relations function, and as we see in the case of the Muslim ban there are reasons to think the ban has been shaped in part by the private business interests of the Trump Organization. The harsh stance toward Iran serves Israeli interests, not our own. In short, moving visas from State to Homeland Security works against our international interests and passes them to an agency more likely to respond to short-term overt political interests.
18
What's wrong with tasking federal agencies with reviewing visa screening processes to see if they are sufficiently rigorous? Sorry but entry into this country is not a God-given right!
23
You appear to have missed the part about the targeting of muslims and the use of bureaucratic processes to enact procedures that may be unconstitutional. This is a big deal.
22
Nothing. Would that Trump was doing only that.
2
No,entry is not a God-given right, but a God-given opportunity the United States of America has been proud to offer to many with compassion. Any of your ancestors or relatives?
4
Trump calls it a Muslim ban when he wants us to think of it as an Islamic terrorist ban. But since he left Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt off the list of affected countries, it is just an arbitrary ban that shows no plausible benefit for anyone and some fairly concerning drawbacks.
39
Far from arbitrary...Trump's ban is a very directed ban, directed right at those Muslim countries that do Not have Trump business interests, Muslim countries where Trump has business interests, you will notice, have been left off all the renditions of Trump's ban...even then, Trump's ban, as you say, "shows no plausible benefit for anyone and some fairly concerning drawbacks."
39
Before the Trump Era, before The Country went off track and lost its marbles, an elderly sibling and I, the former born in Washington before the President, the latter in New York (we have our birth certificates), our mother in Paris was dying and we decided to fly on Air India.
Those were still the days where a friend and I working in the humanitarian world for children never could have conceived that there would be a Muslim Ban. It has happened. It is a reality. And, terrorism is here to stay for awhile.
This small anecdote of traveling to France is to report that, of course, security lines for a non-American Airline were long and winding. We survived. A glimpse at my elderly academic brother, looking cramped and miserable, with somebody's toddler on his frail knee, made me smile.
In 2006, my friend and colleague at work, an African-born and of Muslim faith, called at Christmas before boarding a plane, and told me that a large American bank was planning to place her family house in escrow for missing a monthly mortgage payment, which was a computer glitch on the part of the above. The bank acknowledged its mistake.
Keep up this Muslim ban approved by Trump, and do not be surprised if at some point in time our 'religion' will be stamped in our passport. Now retired, my friend is at home. This is to say that what Trump is proposing is Anti-American, and no longer the Country that I was led to believe was Great.
Mr. Trump, it is a cold out there. Come home.
Those were still the days where a friend and I working in the humanitarian world for children never could have conceived that there would be a Muslim Ban. It has happened. It is a reality. And, terrorism is here to stay for awhile.
This small anecdote of traveling to France is to report that, of course, security lines for a non-American Airline were long and winding. We survived. A glimpse at my elderly academic brother, looking cramped and miserable, with somebody's toddler on his frail knee, made me smile.
In 2006, my friend and colleague at work, an African-born and of Muslim faith, called at Christmas before boarding a plane, and told me that a large American bank was planning to place her family house in escrow for missing a monthly mortgage payment, which was a computer glitch on the part of the above. The bank acknowledged its mistake.
Keep up this Muslim ban approved by Trump, and do not be surprised if at some point in time our 'religion' will be stamped in our passport. Now retired, my friend is at home. This is to say that what Trump is proposing is Anti-American, and no longer the Country that I was led to believe was Great.
Mr. Trump, it is a cold out there. Come home.
15
I'm an agnostic, but if a loving caring God /Allah exists, may He shower you and yours with blessings.
2
It doesn't matter how much the Left and the Democrats scream, the President of the United States has in his/her powers the right to decide who can enter the U.S. and become a citizen. Case closed.
28
Ladies and Gentlemen, the case has been declared closed! There shall be no further discussion on the matter!
5
Typically inaccurate. In what direction will you next extend the powers of the POTUS?
4
True, but not if his or her decisions are counter to the Constitution.
4
"Finally, consider an embarrassing incident. An Afghan girls’ robotics team was initially denied entry into the United States to participate in a science competition. It was only after public outcry and an intervention by President Trump that they were granted passage."
And this is the reward for a country where we are upping the ante on the endless war against the Taliban, which means relying on help from Afghanis on the ground who, under this president, must feel highly motivated (sarcasm intended).
The fallout from these stealth crackdowns is going to result in two consequences that I don't think the administration is going to like.
First, stigmatizing Muslims is going to virtually guarantee that we get zero cooperation on rooting out terrorism in communities where we need their eyes and ears.
And second, it's going to increase hate crimes--already escalated since Donald Trump's inauguration.
I know many agree with Trump on banning this country and that country. But if you assess where and how he's doing it, you can see no consistency, the only one being that where he personally has commercial interests, there is leniency.
Using an "enemy's list" of countries you don't like, even if that list can change according to your whims, Mr. President, is a horrible way to manage immigration and Visa applications.
And this is the reward for a country where we are upping the ante on the endless war against the Taliban, which means relying on help from Afghanis on the ground who, under this president, must feel highly motivated (sarcasm intended).
The fallout from these stealth crackdowns is going to result in two consequences that I don't think the administration is going to like.
First, stigmatizing Muslims is going to virtually guarantee that we get zero cooperation on rooting out terrorism in communities where we need their eyes and ears.
And second, it's going to increase hate crimes--already escalated since Donald Trump's inauguration.
I know many agree with Trump on banning this country and that country. But if you assess where and how he's doing it, you can see no consistency, the only one being that where he personally has commercial interests, there is leniency.
Using an "enemy's list" of countries you don't like, even if that list can change according to your whims, Mr. President, is a horrible way to manage immigration and Visa applications.
115
Christine- I don't think trump and his rabid supporters are at all concerned about hate crimes against Muslims. They view these people as somehow less than human and have no empathy for the suffering of their fellow man. Everything with trump is carefully calculated to endear him to his tribal followers who love knee-jerk, free from calculated consequences responses to serious, complicated issues. The dumbing down is complete with 40% of our country who still support trump. Critical thinking is a lost art, extrapolation is rarer still and trump promoting trump is absolute. Too bad so many of his supporters can't see that trump only does what is good for trump. Hence the ban on certain countries where he has no vested interests and a pass to those Muslim countries where he stands to make a buck or two. And the ignorant manipulated base applauds!
6
To the contrary, a massive terrorist act would be good for the Trump administration and they would exploit it to maximum benefit.
1
Excellent comment. Good luck America getting neighborhood help from Muslim communities with this approach.
Not a Trump supporter by any means, but the authors fail to mention that the list of countries affected by the 'ban' was drawn up by the Obama administration, and it was not because of religion, but because the countries listed had no bureaucratic infrastructures which could provide the proper documents needed to screen visitors. It is entirely proper that the US carefully screen those they admit to our country in this age of terror.
45
FIrst of all, Obama did not ban refugee arrivals. Trump has suspended all refugee arrivals from all countries around the world. Secondly, the Obama "ban" was just a temporary suspension of a certain type of visa from one country, Iraq, and a restriction on persons who had visited the other countries on the list- mainly if they had flown there from another destination, such as Europe. It was not a total moratorium on visa applications or arrivals from those countries.
17
Obama did not draw up a ban list. If Obama listed countries that grew syrah grapes long ago, would that constitute a ban list?
2
@C.H:
Not a supporter of this administration either friend, but perhaps. instead of pushing along a falsehood, you should do a little reading for context.
Here is a good link ( but there are many )
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sorry-mr-president-the-obama-adminis...
Happy to help out.
Not a supporter of this administration either friend, but perhaps. instead of pushing along a falsehood, you should do a little reading for context.
Here is a good link ( but there are many )
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/sorry-mr-president-the-obama-adminis...
Happy to help out.
3
The Trump administration stirs up fears of a "deep state" conspiring against "true" Americans, but they are the ones guilty of ruling by executive fiat and bureaucratic maneuvering.
45
Presidents tend to rule by executive fiat and bureaucratic maneuvering, when Congress will not do their job (ie Obama, now Trump).
We need younger workers, well-educated entrepreneurs, and diverse opinions in the US. We need the deep, empathetic connections to other countries that come with family relationships. We need the revenue from trips home, the taxes from immigrants' work, and the power of cross-border trade formed with personal relationships. We need the next generation of diplomats who are native Arabic speakers. I was raised on the early 1990s cultural diversity training, when all this seemed somewhat idealistic. Now that I'm a mid-career exec, I have seen hundreds of times that more diverse teams come up with better ideas, have louder debates, and produce better work. This is the reality, and we must weigh it against the chance that some people who ask for entry want to do harm. And this is the real need: we need agile, innovative processes to rout the bad actors out, not whole-scale denial for entire groups of people. We need the world's diversity to remain American.
61
It's a nation of immigrants, for Pete's sake. From all over the world of every imaginable religion, creed, color, you name it. Most of what people are listening to today is largely propaganda. Suggest they read Alan Bullock's, Hitler, A Study In Tyranny (1964). People forget. People don't read history. People are astonishingly easy marks.
1
It's not a Muslim ban, if you called it what it is then your commentary might have some validity. Is a temporary halt on new visas from a group of countries that the OBAMA administration identified as not able to enforce reliable identification records for individuals.
42
The article is using Trump's own words. He called it a Muslim ban.
2
According to the Washington Post:
"The issue is much more complex than suggested by the Trump White House. The original intent of the law was to insist on greater scrutiny of people who had traveled to Syria and Iraq, even if they were citizens of countries that qualified for a visa waiver. In other words, lawmakers were seeking to identify possible radicalization, not single out citizens.
Four countries were identified by Congress, in a bill signed by Obama, and then the Obama administration added three more. But Obama — and Democrats in Congress — wanted to require greater visa scrutiny of people who had traveled to those countries. When given a chance, the Obama administration specifically rejected the citizenship-based restrictions that Trump has now ordered. So while the names are the same, the approach is the polar opposite." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/02/07/trumps-cl...
"The issue is much more complex than suggested by the Trump White House. The original intent of the law was to insist on greater scrutiny of people who had traveled to Syria and Iraq, even if they were citizens of countries that qualified for a visa waiver. In other words, lawmakers were seeking to identify possible radicalization, not single out citizens.
Four countries were identified by Congress, in a bill signed by Obama, and then the Obama administration added three more. But Obama — and Democrats in Congress — wanted to require greater visa scrutiny of people who had traveled to those countries. When given a chance, the Obama administration specifically rejected the citizenship-based restrictions that Trump has now ordered. So while the names are the same, the approach is the polar opposite." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/02/07/trumps-cl...
It is very sad that the Trump administration has nurtured and stooped to the lowest values of xenophobia and exclusivity we have instead of leading the nation to be its best self. I have just recently helping refugees, many of them Muslim, learn English. They are families or singles, young and middle aged. One mother with 3 small kids told me that they fled Aleppo, then spent 3 years in Jordan before coming to Chicago. This has never been an easy or quick process, vetting is already strong. They have been through so much, but are so happy to be here.
Given that so very many of our 'terrorist' attacks have been carried out by Americans (Oklahoma City, Aurora, Columbine, New Town) and given that "ordinary" gun violence kills far more citizens than such attacks, we are, to say the least, going after a fly with a sledge hammer. And, yes, there is bigotry in the drive to do so. But then, what can one expect from a country which used to be a world leader in human rights and an assortment of other things, but will soon be grouped with the Roman Empire, the British Empire, and other "used to be" greats?
Given that so very many of our 'terrorist' attacks have been carried out by Americans (Oklahoma City, Aurora, Columbine, New Town) and given that "ordinary" gun violence kills far more citizens than such attacks, we are, to say the least, going after a fly with a sledge hammer. And, yes, there is bigotry in the drive to do so. But then, what can one expect from a country which used to be a world leader in human rights and an assortment of other things, but will soon be grouped with the Roman Empire, the British Empire, and other "used to be" greats?
97
Thank you for your work with refugees. That is what Makes America Great!
2
None of us will truly be free until every border, physical or otherwise, is removed from our entire planet. Borders don't create lasting peace. They never ever have. We as a civilization need to learn to get along with each other and those in the vast minority of humans who can't seem to do so need to be culled from the herd. The rest of us who are in the majority can then begin to think about how we as a civilization can begin to truly work to heal our dying planet. Borders, walls and wars just have not worked. It is time for a change that will.
17
Guess you never heard "good fences make good neighbors." Look it up.
5
How unrealistic, simplistic and irrational your comment is. Nationalism is what has made us great and what will continue to make America great.
3
@Dave Smith - Guess you never read the rest of the poem from which that comes:
"Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down."
"Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down."
I disagree almost all of what Donald Trump stands for. Having said that, however, here is my thought.
It is important to point out the faults of the others but never enough. We must win "heart and mind" of the rest of us (who disagree with us). Irish Republican Army pointed out the oppression of the British occupation. Black Americans point out the inequality by the rest of the ethnic groups. While we (the rest of us) understand that unfairness of one group of people affect all of us, we also have to understand that we (the rest of us) are truly "afraid" of "them". To erase those fears, it is never enough to point out the weakness of the others but also to emphasize and accentuate the positives in "all of us".
It is important to point out the faults of the others but never enough. We must win "heart and mind" of the rest of us (who disagree with us). Irish Republican Army pointed out the oppression of the British occupation. Black Americans point out the inequality by the rest of the ethnic groups. While we (the rest of us) understand that unfairness of one group of people affect all of us, we also have to understand that we (the rest of us) are truly "afraid" of "them". To erase those fears, it is never enough to point out the weakness of the others but also to emphasize and accentuate the positives in "all of us".
7
The White House is wise to be extremely careful about admitting Muslims to the U.S. in an age of terror.
It is essential that newcomers to America share her core beliefs, including gender equality and Judeo-Christian values.
President Trump has signaled that he will not follow Europe's reckless immigration policies of the last 30 years that have resulted in a dilution of national identity and balkanized towns and cities.
It is essential that newcomers to America share her core beliefs, including gender equality and Judeo-Christian values.
President Trump has signaled that he will not follow Europe's reckless immigration policies of the last 30 years that have resulted in a dilution of national identity and balkanized towns and cities.
30
The United States has been a land of immigrants far longer than Europe. Large scale inward migration into Europe is a relatively recent phenomenon.
15
Regardless of your political beliefs, this statement is offensive to those millions of us Americans who are neither Jewish nor Christian. Plus let us not forget that not one of those Christians and Jews were any less immigrants than all the others you speak of.. and their historical actions--enslaving Africans, killing of indigenous Natives Americans with smallpox blankets and bombing the Japanese--twice--are not exactly a reflection of values to be proud of.
7
Oh God help us! Once upon a time, there were no people in Europe. Where did they all come from? BTW, scale is relative.
4
The bureaucratic obstacles should not be surprising, elections have consequences. The issue will come down to Justices Anthony Kennedy and John Roberts. Trump's public statements, the omission of Saudi Arabia and Egypt from the ban, Antony Kennedy's concern about his historic legacy, and John Roberts tacit seething ( to which he would never admit ) about Trump's attack on him, should spell the end of Trump's ban. Trump's improvident statements greatly reduce the Constitutional gravitas of this case.
20
We should add Egypt and Saudi Arabia to the ban. The 9-11 hijackers were mostly Saudis aided and abetted by the their government and wealthy Saudi individuals. Mohamed Atta was Egyptian.
3
The bureaucratic obstacles should not be surprising, elections have consequences.
----------------
And American citizens have more privileges because we have more responsibilities under the laws of our land.
----------------
And American citizens have more privileges because we have more responsibilities under the laws of our land.
Hope you're right.
1
As terrifying as Trump's actions have been regarding Muslims, the first two comments here terrify me even more.
In my view, Donald Trump is not neither motivated by "careful scrutiny" or his "obligation to keep the country safe".
Trump's "genius" is that he has made a virtue of our reactivity rather than rationality; our fear rather than our knowledge, our bullying impulses rather than our Samaritan; our hateful rather than our loving selves.
Without that, he would not have had a prayer of being elected.
Consider what has happened recently regarding a town called Islamberg, New York. (Google it, and read any article by a reputable news outlet). The residents of the town have been living there for decades, and they have a thoroughly admirable and ongoing relationship with their neighbors and the police. Yet, because of the distant, unfounded suspicions of alt-right media personalities - those who have no knowledge whatsoever of the people in this town other than the faith they profess; threats of violence have been cascading in, and protestors decry the "possibility" that it may be a "terrorist training center".
Variants of this sickness were just as virulently directed at Chinese, Irish, Italian, Caribbean and Jewish immigrants, among many other convenient "others" throughout our short history as a nation - but we so easily forget, or try to convince ourselves that "it is different this time."
Shame on us. God help us learn.
In my view, Donald Trump is not neither motivated by "careful scrutiny" or his "obligation to keep the country safe".
Trump's "genius" is that he has made a virtue of our reactivity rather than rationality; our fear rather than our knowledge, our bullying impulses rather than our Samaritan; our hateful rather than our loving selves.
Without that, he would not have had a prayer of being elected.
Consider what has happened recently regarding a town called Islamberg, New York. (Google it, and read any article by a reputable news outlet). The residents of the town have been living there for decades, and they have a thoroughly admirable and ongoing relationship with their neighbors and the police. Yet, because of the distant, unfounded suspicions of alt-right media personalities - those who have no knowledge whatsoever of the people in this town other than the faith they profess; threats of violence have been cascading in, and protestors decry the "possibility" that it may be a "terrorist training center".
Variants of this sickness were just as virulently directed at Chinese, Irish, Italian, Caribbean and Jewish immigrants, among many other convenient "others" throughout our short history as a nation - but we so easily forget, or try to convince ourselves that "it is different this time."
Shame on us. God help us learn.
202
yes agree - but women have come to far over the years to get away from the regressive ideas of the Muslim religion toward women. The answer to society's problems is to stop spreading all the stupid ideas - of which there are just way too many.
1
As far as I am concerned, Congress seems to be a 'terrorist training center' for the GOP.
As an Arab American born and raised in New York City, long resident in Japan, I find some of the views that some of the contributors here that refuse to realize how this Muslim ban that the President has promised to deliver is not only counter productive to the future well being of this country but indeed, quite dire for our image abroad, which I assure you is giving us a very bad image. But seeing the social and geographic origin of these contributors, I am greatly heartened that they represent the great uneducated uncouth, and untravelled American that is not the true American that has figured prominently in our history of endeavour and positive outlook that has defined us a nation for over two centuries. We shall overcome.
138
@Ya
Indeed. If words have barbs, along with travel bans, then imagine what effect actual bombs are having on those people that wish only to escape away from the carnage to teeming shores ...
Indeed. If words have barbs, along with travel bans, then imagine what effect actual bombs are having on those people that wish only to escape away from the carnage to teeming shores ...
1
"... I am greatly heartened that they represent the great uneducated uncouth, and untravelled American ..."
An interesting quote from a "long term" resident of Japan. Would you care to comment upon the immigration statistics of Japan? Japan is not at all welcoming to immigrants and refugees. Japanese society is not at all inclusive. However Japanese are well educated and have a thriving culture.
An interesting quote from a "long term" resident of Japan. Would you care to comment upon the immigration statistics of Japan? Japan is not at all welcoming to immigrants and refugees. Japanese society is not at all inclusive. However Japanese are well educated and have a thriving culture.
3
Japan severely limits Muslim immigration, not to mention immigration in general, and rarely naturalizes foreigners like you, yet it has suffered zero damage to its reputation. Certainly you find its xenophobic policies acceptable, or you wouldn't be spending so much time there, enjoying a quality of life only made possible by its high degree of homogeneity. By the way, Japan has had exactly zero Islamic terror attacks: hardly a coincidence. The US would do well to emulate its policies, don't you think?
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The initial travel ban (the president calls it a ban, so let's not equivocate on that term) is not rooted in evidence or intelligence-derived threat streams. Restricting visas for entry from the six Muslim countries does not form the basis of a security strategy. There is simply no evidence that it will make the country safer -- it just plays well with his xenophobic base. What his policy and bureaucratic initiatives do accomplish is to demonstrate to the world that we are an intolerant nation skirting our own laws.
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There is simply no evidence that it will make the country safer -- it just plays well with his xenophobic base.
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It's common sense to restrict immigration from countries that we are openly attacking and where we are killing their own citizens via our military conquests. How do you know the levels of hartred that the next generations of Muslm immigrants from these countries will carry into the United States?
Wouldn't all the Muslim activist sympathizers in the US be more helpful in redirecting their energies toward ending the undeclared wars against these Muslim-majority countries and thus helping ALL Muslim civilians? People do realize that the refugee camps that America's military has helped to fill up with fleeing Muslims cannot be transplanted into the US -- that only a small number of them will be cherry-picked to relocate here....
What of the rest of them?
Shouldn't someone be working toward helping those left behind in their own homelands, where we continue to pepper their own home countries with bombs and flood their streets with guns? (think of the recent Iran deal, under Obama... who was helped there, and who was hurt?)
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It's common sense to restrict immigration from countries that we are openly attacking and where we are killing their own citizens via our military conquests. How do you know the levels of hartred that the next generations of Muslm immigrants from these countries will carry into the United States?
Wouldn't all the Muslim activist sympathizers in the US be more helpful in redirecting their energies toward ending the undeclared wars against these Muslim-majority countries and thus helping ALL Muslim civilians? People do realize that the refugee camps that America's military has helped to fill up with fleeing Muslims cannot be transplanted into the US -- that only a small number of them will be cherry-picked to relocate here....
What of the rest of them?
Shouldn't someone be working toward helping those left behind in their own homelands, where we continue to pepper their own home countries with bombs and flood their streets with guns? (think of the recent Iran deal, under Obama... who was helped there, and who was hurt?)
2
Midway - I'm sure everyone appreciates your suggestions for what "Muslim activist sympathizers" should be doing. Although I have to say it's not entirely clear who you mean to include in that group. Are you speaking to all of us who are disgusted with Trump's bigotry and xenophobia as well as that of his, uhm, loyal supporters? In that case, why do you imagine that you have any idea at all what else any of us are doing to help end war and help take care of refugees? Why do you presume that there is something wrong with sticking up with American values and that instead we should be doing something else? Why do you think that people cannot support more than one goal at a time? How is banning visitors, immigrants, and refugees from coming to the U.S. going to help any of those "left behind"? What sound good but ultimately nonsensical suggestions you make to cloak the fact that you do not want "those people" to come here.
I am a liberal Democrat and I am happy that Mr. Trump is taking a strong stand on immigration from Islamic countries. If they cannot adapt, at least publicly, to our values. They shouldn't be allowed in. After all, we are a sovereign nation and we have the right to pick and choose who we want in. We already have enough problems, why add more? American citizens are already stressed to the limit don't push them to rebel because the outcome is not conducive to a harmonious existence.
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Please stop mis-labeling yourself. A "liberal Democrat" does not sound exactly like someone from Trump's "Base," including the exaggerated sense of external danger and feelings of fear and stress it invokes, and the barely veiled threat of violent rebellion should things not go the way of your comfort zone.
How are you defining "our values" exactly? A Democrat understands that for those who are citizens, the Constitution and First Amendment explicitly let people have whatever values they like, as long as they abide lawfully. Is your presumption that the majority of Muslims who have not already made it inside (and perhaps those who have) are unable to abide lawfully, thus justifying a change from existing "weeding out the bad apples" policy to "making it onerous for all Muslims because every apple is presumed bad" policy? Because the latter is simply jingoism.
How are you defining "our values" exactly? A Democrat understands that for those who are citizens, the Constitution and First Amendment explicitly let people have whatever values they like, as long as they abide lawfully. Is your presumption that the majority of Muslims who have not already made it inside (and perhaps those who have) are unable to abide lawfully, thus justifying a change from existing "weeding out the bad apples" policy to "making it onerous for all Muslims because every apple is presumed bad" policy? Because the latter is simply jingoism.
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I'm curious what you mean by "our values". Trump says he wants immigrants who "love us". Even the people who are born here don't love everybody here. What are they trying to do, make an immigration system that only allows Ghandi or M.L. King types of people? Cut the double talk, please. Let our immigration policy reflect the diversity of humanity.
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@JG Denver - JG please tell me what you mean by "our" values.
Your move.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Your move.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
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In this era, it seems very sensible of the State Department to examine the social media history of applicants. I cannot fault that change.
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Oddly enough the countries where trump has bussiness interests are not banned.
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makes sense Jean. Just saw the movie "The Big Sick" and it was funny but very introspective of other cultures/religions and the pressures their religious values put on members of Society.
Jean, the problem is that this vetting is only for people from specific countries. Recent terrorist attacks are by citizens of European countries.
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I can think of very few wars in the last forty years in which Muslims have not been involved, on one side or the other (or both). Yes, I know Islam is the religion of peace, but it hasn't been living up to its billing recently. President Trump is quite right to carefully scrutinize, and if necessary halt, the immigration of a group of people who cannot live with their neighbors, and want to live next door to Americans.
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I can think of very few wars in the past 100 years or so in which the United States was not involved. Many, if not all, of those instigated by the US.
Perhaps we should ban ourselves?
Perhaps we should ban ourselves?
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@ Here from There - Here, Thomas from Stuttgart like I, American citizen age 85, can think of very few wars in the past many years that the US was not involved in or made worse or even started.
He, living in Germany, is aware of that but you from "There" seem not to have known that. And, for the sake of historical completeness, Christians used to war among themselves.
You almost certainly do not know any Muslims. Your loss.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
He, living in Germany, is aware of that but you from "There" seem not to have known that. And, for the sake of historical completeness, Christians used to war among themselves.
You almost certainly do not know any Muslims. Your loss.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
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Thomas, that is a interesting comment -- I guess modern Germans find it convenient to dis-remember the past two world wars.
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Ignoring the authors' derogatory use of the term 'muslim ban', which Trump's actions are not, Khera and Smith (others also) seem to be under the impression that the U.S. should allow entry to anyone. 9/11 changed everything. Radical Islamic terrorism changed everything.
We have the right to vet anyone and everyone entering our country. Our Presidents first obligation is to keep the citizenry safe. Allowing entry from some nations is riskier than others. It is no coincidence that those countries currently on the black-list are muslim majority nations, but this is no 'muslim ban', as the authors would assert. If, in the future, a significant minority of folks from Australia (for some reason?!?) started to kill us, their nation too would be black-listed.
Welcome to the world of extreme vetting. Trump promised, and Trump is delivering.
Many of us are very happy with the actions Trump and his administration are taking in this respect. And, in response to the authors' claim that a 'muslim ban' has no place in our country (again, it is not), many of us would say that those who cannot, or will not, adjust to our Laws and way of life (some wishing us harm), have no place in our country.
Happy to hear Trump is getting the job done.
We have the right to vet anyone and everyone entering our country. Our Presidents first obligation is to keep the citizenry safe. Allowing entry from some nations is riskier than others. It is no coincidence that those countries currently on the black-list are muslim majority nations, but this is no 'muslim ban', as the authors would assert. If, in the future, a significant minority of folks from Australia (for some reason?!?) started to kill us, their nation too would be black-listed.
Welcome to the world of extreme vetting. Trump promised, and Trump is delivering.
Many of us are very happy with the actions Trump and his administration are taking in this respect. And, in response to the authors' claim that a 'muslim ban' has no place in our country (again, it is not), many of us would say that those who cannot, or will not, adjust to our Laws and way of life (some wishing us harm), have no place in our country.
Happy to hear Trump is getting the job done.
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"Muslim ban" is the president's phrase--the authors were quoting him. And the nations specified are not the ones from which any of the 9/11 terrorists hailed.
Of course we have the right to vet immigrants--and we do. But our country was founded on freedom of religion, among other freedoms.
Of course we have the right to vet immigrants--and we do. But our country was founded on freedom of religion, among other freedoms.
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The ban also includes Iraq, which we have been spending blood and money on since 2003, and whose government we are closely allied with. According to the Trump administration, we have been fighting side-by-side, yet Iraqis aren't fit to even visit the US. And that makes sense, how?
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Beware of false dichotomies.
It's not a choice between Trump's ban or open borders.
The choice is between vetting policies put in place by previous administrations that have kept us safe, and new restrictions that will exacerbate tensions and thus could lead to more attacks.
What's needed are calm, rational approaches to security, not feel good get tough policies that play to a minority base -- or to base instincts.
It's not a choice between Trump's ban or open borders.
The choice is between vetting policies put in place by previous administrations that have kept us safe, and new restrictions that will exacerbate tensions and thus could lead to more attacks.
What's needed are calm, rational approaches to security, not feel good get tough policies that play to a minority base -- or to base instincts.
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