Regarding the comments possibly using solar panels at McMurdo:
My husband and I visited Norway this summer. Most of the time we were above the Arctic Circle so we had light 24 hours a day. However the light at night was not the light of high noon to 5pm of a summer day in the San Francisco Bay Area. It was a pale light. I have insomnia. I would go out on our balcony in during the night to look at the world in the odd pale light. It seems to me that a pale light, one that even during the day barely got the temperature to 70°F, has less energy stored in it that the noon day sun light in the SF Bay Area.
So, would solar panels capture enough energy from the pale sun light to power all the infrastructure equipment needed to keep humans alive and able to work in Antarctica? Does the temperature in Antarctica ever reach 70°F?
Are solar panels scientifically a practical option for Antarctica?
My husband and I visited Norway this summer. Most of the time we were above the Arctic Circle so we had light 24 hours a day. However the light at night was not the light of high noon to 5pm of a summer day in the San Francisco Bay Area. It was a pale light. I have insomnia. I would go out on our balcony in during the night to look at the world in the odd pale light. It seems to me that a pale light, one that even during the day barely got the temperature to 70°F, has less energy stored in it that the noon day sun light in the SF Bay Area.
So, would solar panels capture enough energy from the pale sun light to power all the infrastructure equipment needed to keep humans alive and able to work in Antarctica? Does the temperature in Antarctica ever reach 70°F?
Are solar panels scientifically a practical option for Antarctica?
2
We know the Trump response to this.
"Research? We don't need no stinkin' research!"
(Thank you Mel Brooks for the original of this line in the movie "Blazing Saddles.")
"Research? We don't need no stinkin' research!"
(Thank you Mel Brooks for the original of this line in the movie "Blazing Saddles.")
5
Why do some folks balk at paying for icebreakers yet jump on the wagon about the jobs projects like great border wall are supposed to create. Why not, wow, think of all those out of work machinists and fabricators and engineers etc. that could get to work building these icebreakers which presumably would available to McMurdo, our coast guard, for shared international leasing? Why not we're gonna build those icebreakers and make those Russian scientists pay for 'em? Well, we all know why. Never underestimate the peevish myopic ignorance of the average republican voter and their cabal of politicians, straight out of PT Barnums school of governance.
12
Antarctica is a region rich in minerals. The Southern Ocean is a very important part of the world where the Russians fish, as there are many exotic species that can fetch high prices from rich consumers around the world. Russia breaks lots of fishing laws down there so New Zealand has created Marine Sanctuaries in and around their Island territories to try and prevent this. Russia and other nations make big $$$ from fishing in that region and if the USA was not down there in the Southern Ocean, Russia would just take over and would most probably invade New Zealand, as well, and take over NZ like it took over Ukraine.
Don't underestimate the Southern Ocean and the rich resources down there as lots of other powerful nations have their eyes on it and the rich minerals in Antarctica.
Don't underestimate the Southern Ocean and the rich resources down there as lots of other powerful nations have their eyes on it and the rich minerals in Antarctica.
8
@CK,
I guess its time to send Sea Shepard down there. They did a good job harassing Japan. My only worry would be that Russia might just blow them out of the water. We know they have no trouble downing commercial airliners! On the Russian fishing topic, I've never heard much about your claim, guess I'll have do some research!
I guess its time to send Sea Shepard down there. They did a good job harassing Japan. My only worry would be that Russia might just blow them out of the water. We know they have no trouble downing commercial airliners! On the Russian fishing topic, I've never heard much about your claim, guess I'll have do some research!
2
It's been obvious for some time that BOTH parties have squandered our resources for projects that do not fix anything in America's best interest time and again. For the last 30 years the players have been the same by and large, so who high jacked our government? And what did the media companies do? By and large, an article here and there to maintain "access".
Hard to be optimistic about the future of any American science. Most Republicans, fortunately not all, and certainly the Trump administration take a pretty dim view of science (ignoring warnings about climate change - just one example). So its hard to optimistic about McMurdo.
And let me say as a scientist it is indeedan incredibly valuable asset, even for those of us who have never been to the Antarctic.
P.S. Thanks for this wonderful series on the Antarctic, NYT.
And let me say as a scientist it is indeedan incredibly valuable asset, even for those of us who have never been to the Antarctic.
P.S. Thanks for this wonderful series on the Antarctic, NYT.
8
People eat canned vegetables<<
I would think they'd eat frozen vegetables. They're better than canned and they wouldn't need an ice box for storage.
I would think they'd eat frozen vegetables. They're better than canned and they wouldn't need an ice box for storage.
4
Maybe if we hadn't wasted a $ trillion or two in Iraq and Afghanistan we'd have money for infrastructure at home and Antarctica.
12
Here in CA, a new gas tax was passed; "a package of vehicle fees and fuel taxes that the Legislature passed earlier this year to raise $52 billion over 10 years for transportation projects. Then, The little-known legislator from Orange County launched a citizen’s initiative to repeal the fuel taxes and fees in May. In June, he announced his candidacy for governor in 2018. In the meanwhile, in Orange County, the California Republican Party has been working intensely to recall first-term state Sen. Josh Newman (D-Fullerton). What’s their argument against him? That he voted for the gas tax." (LATimes, July 17, 2017).. So, did 81 other legislators!
So, to undo CA's supermajority, the Republicans are willing to sacrifice better roads, transporation advances in CA...
So, to undo CA's supermajority, the Republicans are willing to sacrifice better roads, transporation advances in CA...
5
@Susan,
My only question about the new gas tax is that the taxes the state has collected in the past for roads and transportation have ended up elsewhere! So once again California's inability to manage our hard earned money payed to taxes. I'm all for making sure we maintain some sort of infrastructure, which we aren't, and then being told by our officials who have doled it out somewhere else, they need more. If you or I wasted and squandered our money we would be out in the cold and every creditor would tell us NO!
My only question about the new gas tax is that the taxes the state has collected in the past for roads and transportation have ended up elsewhere! So once again California's inability to manage our hard earned money payed to taxes. I'm all for making sure we maintain some sort of infrastructure, which we aren't, and then being told by our officials who have doled it out somewhere else, they need more. If you or I wasted and squandered our money we would be out in the cold and every creditor would tell us NO!
1
With 42 billion dollars going out to foreign countries around the world you would think we could take care of our own countries projects and infrastructure first before giving all our tax money away to others.
4
The ice breaker program has been floundering for years. $1 billion is actually cheap compared to Navy vessels particularly white elephants like the Zumwalt class destroyer. We need a small fleet of capable heavy polar ice breakers for both south and north poles. Coast Guard gets ripped during budget time because it's under Homeland Security not DoD.
12
Sorry but the people in charge today don't believe in science or research. The military industrial complex is slated for a 54 billion dollar increase next year. The other republican priorities include de-funding education, health care and all middle class safety nets in the name of tax cuts for corporations and the wealthiest among us. I doubt if Donald Trump can locate Antarctica on a map or spell it. Good luck U.S. controlled Antarctica, you need it.
14
Government agencies always want more money, but the canard that we are falling behind the Russians on the race to Antarctica sounds absurd. Plus in this era of concern about melting polar ice, should we be building a fleet of nuclear powered ships to chip away the remaining ice more quickly? Scientists need to slow down and savor the exploration, not be in such a frantic hurry that they destroy what they are studying.
2
Sorry - The only thing I saw was the $1Billion for an ice-breaker boat. And that we need 50 of them to match the Russians. Holy cow! Might make more sense to spend a single billion just to figure out how to make a low-cost ice breaker. The boat builders in the US are absurdly managed with costs that are out of control and unaccounted profits. Let's get the boats from the same place the Russians and save a few billion in the process.
1
It's not quite that simple. First, heavy icebreakers are a national capability that any nation engaged in this kind of research are better off maintaining for themselves (just as with low Earth orbit lift capability). The Russians may not always be our friends.
Second, we don't need 50 of them, this is not a "race" with the Russians, it is a simple matter of meeting our own needs with capabilities we know we will be able to count on, and to maintain the wide variety of skills sets required (with for heavy icebreaking, low Earth orbit launch lift, or other national capability issues). We probably need 2, or perhaps 3, but the Commandant of the Coast Guard is far more qualified than I am to decide that.
Third, as far as I know, all Russian heavy ice breaking capability (as opposed to "ice capable" and light icebreakers, both of which are useless in getting to McMurdo Station) are nuclear powered. We have not yet seen the Russians send one of their nuclear icebreakers across the Equator; there is speculation that they cannot because of limited cooling capacity. Regardless of that, do you really want a fairly massive Russian nuclear power plant in Antarctica?
Based on personal experience and additional research, I am satisfied, that an American heavy icebreaking capability is worth the investment. The Coast Guard may not be the most cost effective way to do this, though; the Navy's MSC may be able to do the job as well for less money.
Second, we don't need 50 of them, this is not a "race" with the Russians, it is a simple matter of meeting our own needs with capabilities we know we will be able to count on, and to maintain the wide variety of skills sets required (with for heavy icebreaking, low Earth orbit launch lift, or other national capability issues). We probably need 2, or perhaps 3, but the Commandant of the Coast Guard is far more qualified than I am to decide that.
Third, as far as I know, all Russian heavy ice breaking capability (as opposed to "ice capable" and light icebreakers, both of which are useless in getting to McMurdo Station) are nuclear powered. We have not yet seen the Russians send one of their nuclear icebreakers across the Equator; there is speculation that they cannot because of limited cooling capacity. Regardless of that, do you really want a fairly massive Russian nuclear power plant in Antarctica?
Based on personal experience and additional research, I am satisfied, that an American heavy icebreaking capability is worth the investment. The Coast Guard may not be the most cost effective way to do this, though; the Navy's MSC may be able to do the job as well for less money.
6
I worked at McMurdo for two summer seasons and spent one of those seasons driving those big vehicles "used to haul people around the McMurdo Station area." It was an amazing experience but yes, the infrastructure and equipment for daily operations is aging. There is a relatively new science lab but there are a lot of vehicles and buildings that need to be replaced or renovated. The scientific research that occurs in Antarctica is amazing and ranges the gamut from NASA testing Mars rovers to astronomers looking at the stars to paleontologists to climate science. I am proud to have been part of the program and to lose our standing on the world stage in Antarctica or elsewhere would be a shame. The Antarctic is governed by a treaty, so what can occur there is limited to scientific research with occasional tourism. There is no where else in the world where the spirit of international cooperation, human ingenuity and community creativity are the preeminent reasons for being there.
21
A couple of ideas:
1. The Russians have 50(!) icebreakers. Charter one when needed, maybe.
We buy tickets for rides on their spacecraft, what's the difference?
2. Open things up for tourism. Gambling! The Penguin's Tuxedo Resort and Casino. Let the proceeds build the new camp. Antarctica could become like Cuba before Castro ruined the ride.
3. Penal colony = cheap prison labor. Let the inmates build the new base. Not like you'd have to put locks on the cell doors, where are they gonna escape to? Stick it on one the islands. Ask the French for advice. Better not let Trump here that one. "Great idea!", he speed-dials Macron to see if they have any "Guyana how-to" pamphlets left around somewhere.
4. Persuade Elon Musk to build a village at the South Pole so as to develop a hostile environment living regimen/culture before he tries to just wing it on Mars. Put another resort and casino in his village. Bottom Of The World Hotel and Casino.
5. A ski resort on Mt Erebus. And yes, another casino. It's an active volcano, so advertise the added fun element of also literally gambling with your life.
Actually that promotional campaign could work for the whole continent.
1. The Russians have 50(!) icebreakers. Charter one when needed, maybe.
We buy tickets for rides on their spacecraft, what's the difference?
2. Open things up for tourism. Gambling! The Penguin's Tuxedo Resort and Casino. Let the proceeds build the new camp. Antarctica could become like Cuba before Castro ruined the ride.
3. Penal colony = cheap prison labor. Let the inmates build the new base. Not like you'd have to put locks on the cell doors, where are they gonna escape to? Stick it on one the islands. Ask the French for advice. Better not let Trump here that one. "Great idea!", he speed-dials Macron to see if they have any "Guyana how-to" pamphlets left around somewhere.
4. Persuade Elon Musk to build a village at the South Pole so as to develop a hostile environment living regimen/culture before he tries to just wing it on Mars. Put another resort and casino in his village. Bottom Of The World Hotel and Casino.
5. A ski resort on Mt Erebus. And yes, another casino. It's an active volcano, so advertise the added fun element of also literally gambling with your life.
Actually that promotional campaign could work for the whole continent.
5
There are people who don't believe in basic science so don't expect any support from them. The President is their leader. Hopefully, cooler and fuller heads in Congress will prevail.
15
I'm curious. Do any of the other countries there have a somewhat sprawling complex complete with fossil fuel tanks? I thought the Antarctica was one of the last pristine domains. it looks like we've turned it into mini city! Is this really necessary for research or just Americans being Americans! I love this country, but we still seem to have the wild wild west attitude wherever we go.
4
Sorry to be skeptical, but you can serve Americans all the science you can possibly ever fund and they are still going to continue wreaking environmental damage to this planet until we're all finished.
10
Can anyone name one pet project that can be cancelled that wouldn't cause special interest groups, conservatives, republicans, democrats or liberals to cry about?
Our national debt is just under 20 Trillion dollars and that doesn't include the 230 Trillion our country needs to come up with for unfunded liabilities, retirement funds, health care, medicaid/medicare, roads, bridges, defense, power grid and the list goes on and on.
Our country is bankrupt, the public (and liberals) don't know it yet!
Our national debt is just under 20 Trillion dollars and that doesn't include the 230 Trillion our country needs to come up with for unfunded liabilities, retirement funds, health care, medicaid/medicare, roads, bridges, defense, power grid and the list goes on and on.
Our country is bankrupt, the public (and liberals) don't know it yet!
4
You get what you pay for and since Reagan, your 'starve the beast' friends have guaranteed that result.
17
But it wasn't starved. It got fatter and fatter because politicians stole food [money] from the people.
1
Salome ITN Pending Approval
Every ecosystem contains a vast wealth of knowledge and potential application. It must be painstakingly discerned using rigorous scientific methodology. Scientists are not ad-men with PR machines tapping the social media umbilical right to the pop-up screens of your computer. Scientists are serious people intent primarily on communicating within their scientific community, because the dynamic peer review process is what moves scientific inquiry forward, the process that helps science "get it right." You know, meticulous attention to the development of thorough, accurate research, time-intensive writing and publication of that research, communication of it via committees, journal publication, conferences etc. You act as if nothing is happening down south because you do not know of it. People may be ignorant of the work or lack the intellect to discern it's value. Why carte blanche support of Amazonian plant research? Is it a habitat with which you are more familiar? Why? Movies? Decades of PBS nature specials? Exotic tales of exploration, secret medicinal miracles that will be immediately applicable to a host of diseases? Can you only support the accumulation of knowledge if you can see the end-game? If actual scientists took that position, I guarantee you that we would be centuries behind where we are currently in all fields of science and technology. Your litmus test is simply an irrelevant standard for determining the merit o' scientific study.
Every ecosystem contains a vast wealth of knowledge and potential application. It must be painstakingly discerned using rigorous scientific methodology. Scientists are not ad-men with PR machines tapping the social media umbilical right to the pop-up screens of your computer. Scientists are serious people intent primarily on communicating within their scientific community, because the dynamic peer review process is what moves scientific inquiry forward, the process that helps science "get it right." You know, meticulous attention to the development of thorough, accurate research, time-intensive writing and publication of that research, communication of it via committees, journal publication, conferences etc. You act as if nothing is happening down south because you do not know of it. People may be ignorant of the work or lack the intellect to discern it's value. Why carte blanche support of Amazonian plant research? Is it a habitat with which you are more familiar? Why? Movies? Decades of PBS nature specials? Exotic tales of exploration, secret medicinal miracles that will be immediately applicable to a host of diseases? Can you only support the accumulation of knowledge if you can see the end-game? If actual scientists took that position, I guarantee you that we would be centuries behind where we are currently in all fields of science and technology. Your litmus test is simply an irrelevant standard for determining the merit o' scientific study.
5
In reply to David
3
My father was a Navy Seabee (construction battalion) and one of the first 1,000 people to set foot on Antarctica back in the 1960s. He has passed, but it brought me a little bit of joy knowing that some of the building projects he worked on at McMurdo (as well as the down-time silliness) are still there. My dad used to come to my classroom each year and present his slideshow of his months in Antartica. My classmates always liked the pictures of penguins and elephant seals, but I preferred listening to him talk about the importance of research on the continent well before "climate change" was on our brains. I hope our government can fund the infrastructure needs at our essential research bases in Antarctica. I know my dad would be disappointed that conditions are deteriorating down there, although he would applaud our resourcefulness. We don't want to be left in the dust (ummm, ice?) in scientific research and discovery.
17
Having been on gov't scientific research cruises around the Antarctic peninsula in the 90's, I fully appreciate both the value of the science as well as the difficulties of infrastructure support. Ship-based projects alone are daunting to manage: no dumping of trash whatever for 30 day excursions out of Punta Arenas (yes, that's why certain parts of the Pacific have floating "garbage patches", another story). Ship's wastewater is treated, yet still pumped out; so pollution happens, in an environment which really can't tolerate any. Unnecessary ship traffic down there (like tourism) ought to be extremely limited or forbidden.
I was a bit put after by seeing what McMurdo looked like in Werner Herzog's documentary; so if anything, the budget for McMurdo ought to be significantly increased - not just to replace aging infrastructure, but to ensure the best possible upgrades to minimize their impact on the environment.
I was a bit put after by seeing what McMurdo looked like in Werner Herzog's documentary; so if anything, the budget for McMurdo ought to be significantly increased - not just to replace aging infrastructure, but to ensure the best possible upgrades to minimize their impact on the environment.
14
Never have I felt as nauseous, if not hopeless, about the future of American science--the 1 thing that we should be truly proud of. While cretins like Trump, McConnell and the rest of the Republican do-nothings think that it was American business aggressiveness and acumen and/or military power that made America great, any half-wit with any knowledge of history knows it was American science that was the principal driving force behind any greatness we might have achieved.
We now live in a time of decline and it seems those who brag the loudest about American greatness (Republicans and other conservatives), are the most opposed to doing anything about reversing the fall of such American greatness. They care far more about maximizing significant individual wealth by reducing their own income taxes than they do about preserving America's scientific greatness. Let Antarctica rot, they say. Let the Chinese and Russians replace us, they think, since it will mean more money in their personal bank accounts and those of their friends and biggest campaign contributors.
Sadly, many Americans will continue to put such selfish people into office because such voters are too ill-informed or dumb to care and/or too easily manipulated. Of course it's harsh to say such things about my fellow Americans, but I've listened to too many of them. And these people truly could care less about science in Antarctica. Or about the falsity of most of what spews from Trump's mouth or his Twitter feed.
We now live in a time of decline and it seems those who brag the loudest about American greatness (Republicans and other conservatives), are the most opposed to doing anything about reversing the fall of such American greatness. They care far more about maximizing significant individual wealth by reducing their own income taxes than they do about preserving America's scientific greatness. Let Antarctica rot, they say. Let the Chinese and Russians replace us, they think, since it will mean more money in their personal bank accounts and those of their friends and biggest campaign contributors.
Sadly, many Americans will continue to put such selfish people into office because such voters are too ill-informed or dumb to care and/or too easily manipulated. Of course it's harsh to say such things about my fellow Americans, but I've listened to too many of them. And these people truly could care less about science in Antarctica. Or about the falsity of most of what spews from Trump's mouth or his Twitter feed.
29
A trillion dollars spent in/on Iraq in the past fifteen years..... hummmm... wonder why there is no funds for McMurdo? It's called institutional corruption and it's been rampant in the US for the past quarter of century... and why we were left with the "choice" between the severely compromised Hillary, and the abject griffter and chancer, Trump. Hollow from the inside out.... our so-called democracy.
8
Where Else Does the U.S. Have an Infrastructure Problem?
Chicago?
Chicago?
1
Since Reagan days, we have been doing tax cuts and wrong spend.
All these new gen thoughts done in 60s and 70s were killed by GOP looking for their tax cuts.
Republican party is racist and unpatriotic at core.
Can you pl point one good thing that they have given us which can take decades ahead of rest of the countries?
All these new gen thoughts done in 60s and 70s were killed by GOP looking for their tax cuts.
Republican party is racist and unpatriotic at core.
Can you pl point one good thing that they have given us which can take decades ahead of rest of the countries?
4
This is "fake news". My many friends who worked at McMurdo and South Pole Station explained that the majority of experiments, ozone readings, etc., could be done remotely and we are still there primarily as an occupying force to claim the land. Do the pics of the folks running the Turkey Trot really look like top scientists, or maybe more like a lot of people with limited social and professional skills who are willing to live in an isolated place in order to make and save money, so they can travel the half year when they're not working? The majority of folks are low level lab techs with limited social skills who are looking for adventure, not trained scientists doing important research. The article is a complete and intentional misrepresentation, a government fabricated story, of why we are in Antarctica and the type of people who are willing to live there.
1
As someone who spent many seasons in Antarctica, both with the navy and with support contractors, I can say that your comment is misinformed. The article states that people there tend to be very over-qualified for the positions they fill. That was my experience as well. People go there for all kinds of reasons. Many are there for love of Antarctica. Some are there because they like working a summer season or a winter in order to finance travel in exotic locations. Maybe it's a habit for some. On the contractor side, yes, they are science techs, not scientists. Science is not the contractor's job. The NSF's grantees, for the most part scientists whose job it is to conduct research, come from esteemed universities and other institutions. Although some countries, including New Zealand, do make territorial claims in Antarctica, the U.S. does not.
3
You are wrong, Lyndah, even if you were a support contractor and lived there. The Antarctic Treaty was signed in 1959, and New Zealand was one of the first signors (https://www.state.gov/t/avc/trty/193967.htm) . The treaty states no military presence is allowed and that countries can examine other countries installations on the continent to make sure there is not a military component. You may be the only person on earth who thinks China, Russia and the US are all building bases on Antarctica for altruistic/scientific reasons and not primarily as an excuse to claim the land.
1
As far as people being "overqualified", do you suppose people who only work half a year and who vacation in New Zealand and Australia the other half of the year are competitive top scientists in their field, despite not working half the year? As far as catch phrases like "esteemed universities", which Universities ARE NOT esteemed in your eyes? People who are top scientists in their field don't leave their families or agree to have healthy teeth pulled because they "might" get infected, which is a requirement for wintering at South Pole Station. People who like to party and travel, people who don't mind going weeks without bathing, people who trade being with their families for being on an adventure, people without a career path who can take years off, these are the people the NSF and NOAA hires to put their boots on the ground in Antarctica, and certainly not the top scientists in their respective fields. Typically the techs at Antarctica have NO previous training in what they are doing, and receive instruction from NOAA and/or the NSF. In fact, the NOAA people are typically stationed in Barrow or someplace closer first in order to learn what they need to. These are not expert scientists and it doesn't appear you really know the details of the work being done there.
I'm sure the Russians will be happy to provide us with shuttle services to McMurdo Station, just like they've been doing for us and other less capable countries needing to hitch rides to the International Space Station for how many years now? Slip sliding away....
7
What practical research data outside of weather reports has emerged form Antarctica that was useful for the public? Privatize this effort just like the NYT Board wants to privatize other entities in today's paper.
2
Where are the solar panels in these photos? Seriously.
1
Whether or not to use solar panels depends on engineering analysis, not photo-ops. Seriously.
3
Easy peasy! Delete one new nuke submarine and one new aircraft carrier from the pending Pentagon budget. There. I found the money for you. Need money for healthcare? You'll also find it there.
13
Maybe the solution to funding is to let China simply take over the the whole base! If the US government can't deal with the responsibilities and costs required to maintain the station then let some else who can. We as a nation have failed the planet and its time to let someone else step up to lead. This problem of infrastructure will not be fixed; certainly not by the present administration. The fact is that the USA is no longer a world leader and is falling from the top spot. Who knows how far down we'll fall with the aid of a country that supported people like Trump and his bunch of money grabbing fundamentalists.
3
How ridiculous! We can't just sit back and let China take over the whole base. Let's sell it to them. That's prime property and we have an expert in the Oval Office to "do the deal."
The National Science Foundation and it's Antarctic Program is resourced and regulated directly under the Pentagon.
It's all a matter of priorities.
Supporting science in the Arctic polar regions (including Greenland) is a pittance, a drop in the bucket compared to other expenditures.
It's all a matter of priorities.
Supporting science in the Arctic polar regions (including Greenland) is a pittance, a drop in the bucket compared to other expenditures.
8
Please be aware that the Pentagon's only influence in Antarctica is in logistical support for the National Science Foundation's work in Antarctica. From the NSF Web site: "The National Science Foundation (NSF) is an independent federal agency created by Congress in 1950 "to promote the progress of science; to advance the national health, prosperity, and welfare; to secure the national defense...""
2
The Pentagon may support some research in Antarctic but is no longer a presence there. The NY National Guard provides transportation to and from the ice. Helicopters are contracted privately.
3
Research is essential. It infuses a population with hope of a better future. The problem is that a majority of Americans (the electorate) no longer see it benefiting them in any meaningfully way. It only benefits the very few whom are selected for the voyage. Meanwhile their home, America, is literally falling apart. The void was created a decade ago and is now being filled by China and India. Makes it difficult to prosper when your car or bike is continually damaged by junk roads.
3
For those who miraculously now profess more interest in investments in the US (ala Trump), where were you when we spent the trillions bombing left and right and denigrating Obama who actually tried to reduce military adventurism but was denied by the Republicans? Do I need to remind you of shutting down Guantanamo?
11
Looking at the oil tanks and all of the fossil-fuel powered vehicles, I think they have a real opportunity to cut their carbon footprint by going solar.
1
Solar? From what I read, the sun is only above the horizon at McMurdo Station during Antarctic summertime, from late October until mid-January. Not really a great candidate for solar with months of darkness, at least I can't see how.
8
You do realize that there is 24 hour darkness for 6 months of the year there?
Or maybe not.
Or maybe not.
4
True. In the austral summer, the sun goes round and round in the sky but is about 20 degrees above the horizon.
1
Why expect Republican doubters would repair the infrastructue for a program which is scientific and researching, among other things, climate? The assault on science, scientific thinking and climate change by religious conservatives means we shouldn't expect miracles from this administration.
9
The infrastructure narrative of the NYTimes needs a rethink. First, focusing only on the negative gives a distorted, out-of-touch appearance. We need to know more about what is still-working--age isn't necessarily as primary a factor as quality.
If Antarctica isn't as much of a priority as it used to be, we need to look at why it matters and perhaps use newer technology instead of human camps to measure and research.
Unless we get a system of accountability, just spending and big gov narratives for the sake of it is not smart.
If Antarctica isn't as much of a priority as it used to be, we need to look at why it matters and perhaps use newer technology instead of human camps to measure and research.
Unless we get a system of accountability, just spending and big gov narratives for the sake of it is not smart.
1
After the buttress system holding back large amounts of ice now on land,slides into the Ocean NY./Miami in very dangerous territory..Since trollers like to make semi educated sounding statements are everywhere on the blog o sphere ls f people believe there is no need to move on an emergency basis to stop the use of oil/gas
I think age is a pretty primary factor when you're talking 40 degrees below zero and 40 years old. Exactly what kind of "quality" steel can you find that betrays the laws of physics and doesn't rust after 40 years or become brittle below -40? Age also is pretty important when the STATED DESIGN LIFE of something, like a bridge, is exceeded by decades. If age is too broad or vague for you though, we can just go test and analyze every piece for metallurgic impurities, I'm sure that would be cost effective.
And you're totally right that Antarctica isn't the priority it used to be....not like Delaware-sized ice chunks aren't breaking away this month. Maybe you mean that there soon won't BE an Antarctica so why should we be there? I'm sure it would be cheaper to send drones to drill, transport, and analyze core samples, yeah.
Also, per your last demand, a system of accountability, you do know that we have the US GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE or G.A.O. Jesus look something up once in awhile before commenting.
And you're totally right that Antarctica isn't the priority it used to be....not like Delaware-sized ice chunks aren't breaking away this month. Maybe you mean that there soon won't BE an Antarctica so why should we be there? I'm sure it would be cheaper to send drones to drill, transport, and analyze core samples, yeah.
Also, per your last demand, a system of accountability, you do know that we have the US GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE or G.A.O. Jesus look something up once in awhile before commenting.
Parenthetically, when I visited Scott's hut in 1996, it looked very similar compared to 1911. Of course it's made of wood.
1
We have satellites that can see and measure the continent now. We can even measure the penguin population by satellite. We really don't have to be there.
3
How do we collect rocks and ice cores with satellites? Before I visited, one of the support staff being denigrated by ignorant Trumpsters picked up a rock on the ice that originated on Mars. This rocked the scientific world. By the way, are you referring to the satellites that Trump wants to defund?
1
I traveled with Nat Geo to Antarctic - the most beautiful place on earth. I was led to believe that some of the cost of our expenses is to defray the cost of supplies to these scientists. If it so we should do more. If it is not so, perhaps we should insist that we do.
3
Think of all the money this country could have for scientific research, infrastructure, and healthcare if we didn't invest in so much multi-billion dollar military equipment. We can share resources with other countries to a certain extent; let's hope Russia isn't our biggest partner...
8
There is only so much taxpayer money to fund all of the research projects that the Democrats deem are vital. Unless of course they can achieve their goal of returning to the days of a 90% income tax imposed by the IRS. Then the federal government will complain that 90% is not enough. It's how big government proponents always roll. Meanwhile our tax and spend federal debt grew from less than $11 trillion to more than $20 trillion in the 8 years of the Obama administration. Where did all of that money go?
2
Or cut a tiny fraction of the military budget.
14
We have the very expensive capacity (measured in trillions) to destroy all life on earth, except perhaps insects, many many times over. Even if we retained the capacity to destroy all life just once, just imagine what we could do with the savings without returning to 90%.
5
Excuse me "Democrats" research projects? Are you suggesting that science is partisan?
As for the federal debt - remember the recession? Happened under the Bush presidency.
As for the federal debt - remember the recession? Happened under the Bush presidency.
10
The fewer people and infrastructure Antarctica has, better will be the environment around Antarctica. Just like the world and especially the USA saves a ton of money by sharing the space lab. , countries that have staked claims can share resources that they have in Antarctica instead of each one duplicating them and trying to compete with one another and start conflicts in Antarctica.
3
Yep, it would seem "your loyal servant" Mitch McConnell would rather cut hundreds of billions out of healthcare and spend trillions on never ending wars in the Middle East than the relative pittance on vital infrastructure whose studies are determining, in advance, what is happening to our planet. That is why those people have to be there. There are no conflicts and the infrastructure is relatively minimal.
8
deus02 Unlike Canada the US government does not manage health care. If it did, it may have been sustainable. Instead. It just dishes out money to health insurance companies to mange health care. This is what the other senator from Kentucky, Dr. Paul is trying to prevent Mitch McConnell from doing. Dr. Paul calls it bailing out insurance companies to cover the uninsured and those on medicaid. You are wrong about increasing human population in Antarctica. There is a direct relation between human population growth/industrialization or pollution and climate change. The most populated countries in the world have 50% of the most polluted cities in the world today. So leave Antarctica pristine with sparse population. Satellites and aerial surveillance can tell us quite a bit of what is happening in Antarctica. The recent finding of the giant Antarctica icebreak was not found by inhabitants on the ground of Antractica it was found by the NASA aqua satellite. Do your research about the USA before you try to respond with silly comments from Toronto, Canada. I visited Toronto a couple of years ago and I found it to be heavily polluted due to the tripling of automobiles since the time I first visited Toronto some 25+ years ago when the great Pierre Trudeau the father of Justin was the prime minister.
3
Hey, if science isn't available . . . we'll always have alternative facts.
20
Who ever thought we'd be overrun by forces that actually hate science and they considered it a weapon of the, "elite." It's like someone beamed us into a bad science fiction movie and in this film science is considered fictional blasphemy to the 42% of us who are twice born and seem hellbent on witnessing the end of times. Lemmings all. What we must recognize is that this push by the radical christian forces are, at the heart, no different than what Red China's during Mao's purge of intellectuals decades ago in China . . . if this divide grows scientists may face a hostile government in the near future and we're going to lose prominence in the one field no nation can live without - science. If your pastor asks you to stand against science, then you are kneeling before a fool who has no idea of what God's will is for you . . .
19
Maria,
Many of knew this was coming. If we knew history and philosophy we knew philosophy is science and we saw many times in history there was a push back. That famous old-time religion is not very old. The fundamentalism of today could not compete in the enlightenment and fundamentalism was a 19th century response to Darwin's discovery of the way evolution happened. The founders believed in evolution. The believed in science. Most believed man controlled his own destiny. Most did not believe in miracles and the God of the the Abrahamic religions.
In 1776 lawyers were philosophers not Sadducees and Pharisees and laws were written to conform with scientific proof.
Jefferson was a plant breeder and Franklin successfully dabbled in physics.
Jefferson knew his history and told us this would happen if we didn't teach our children philosophy, history and literature.
Many of knew this was coming. If we knew history and philosophy we knew philosophy is science and we saw many times in history there was a push back. That famous old-time religion is not very old. The fundamentalism of today could not compete in the enlightenment and fundamentalism was a 19th century response to Darwin's discovery of the way evolution happened. The founders believed in evolution. The believed in science. Most believed man controlled his own destiny. Most did not believe in miracles and the God of the the Abrahamic religions.
In 1776 lawyers were philosophers not Sadducees and Pharisees and laws were written to conform with scientific proof.
Jefferson was a plant breeder and Franklin successfully dabbled in physics.
Jefferson knew his history and told us this would happen if we didn't teach our children philosophy, history and literature.
12
Oh please. "Science" has been politicized and weaponzied by the left. And a Christian is like Mao? Exhibit A for why Democrats as a party are dead.
People like you and your President persecuted Galileo. Science survived. Since the Enlightenment, ignorance never prevails for long.
My brother in law , a navy enlistee, was there in 1970 where he lived underground and isolated from his family for 10 months. He proudly mailed home letters with pictures of the ice and penguins all around the camp ground. He would be very sad to see how that program is being neglected today.
4
"Russia, by comparison, will soon have more than 50 icebreakers. Several will be powered by nuclear reactors."
This is misleading. Russia's problem is and has always been that it is a largely land-locked country, particularly when their northern ports are iced in. To ameliorate this problem, they need ice breakers to keep the ports open.
This has no particular relevance to the situation in Antarctica.
This is misleading. Russia's problem is and has always been that it is a largely land-locked country, particularly when their northern ports are iced in. To ameliorate this problem, they need ice breakers to keep the ports open.
This has no particular relevance to the situation in Antarctica.
4
What exactly does one fill a pothole on a snowmobile trail with?
I loved the article, but all I could think of was "The Thing."
3
I was Chief Mate on the USNS Southern Cross in 1983 during the austral summer resupply mission. That year, for the first time, we made the voyage directly from Port Huenema, CA to McMurdo Station, entailing the incredible experience of passing within a few miles of Tahiti and a couple weeks later following behind the icebreaker to the ice pier.
After discharging and backloading, we went to Christchurch, NZ (Port Lyttleton) to load for another trip to McMurdo. During that stay, the Third Mate and I put our motorcycles ashore and rode to Scott Base, the NZ outpost over the hill, by the airstrip, there greeted with enthusiasm.
By the time we were finishing our backload, the ice pier was badly deteriorated, and a tractor/trailer fell through the ice, getting lodged between the ship and pier. Station operators asked to use my ship's cargo gear to lift the truck out (?!?!), but I had to decline. So they used a D8 Caterpillar tractor to dislodge the truck; needless to say there wasn't much left.
McMurdo and the American Antarctic Program truly are magnificent national treasures. I would say "assets", but that word is simply too sterile and bureaucratic to describe the physical and human enterprise. The scientists and scientific staff were, even to this mariner, obviously motivated by and dedicated to their work far beyond normal standards. Our Antarctic program deserves our full support. I would like to see them expand their "artists and authors" program.
After discharging and backloading, we went to Christchurch, NZ (Port Lyttleton) to load for another trip to McMurdo. During that stay, the Third Mate and I put our motorcycles ashore and rode to Scott Base, the NZ outpost over the hill, by the airstrip, there greeted with enthusiasm.
By the time we were finishing our backload, the ice pier was badly deteriorated, and a tractor/trailer fell through the ice, getting lodged between the ship and pier. Station operators asked to use my ship's cargo gear to lift the truck out (?!?!), but I had to decline. So they used a D8 Caterpillar tractor to dislodge the truck; needless to say there wasn't much left.
McMurdo and the American Antarctic Program truly are magnificent national treasures. I would say "assets", but that word is simply too sterile and bureaucratic to describe the physical and human enterprise. The scientists and scientific staff were, even to this mariner, obviously motivated by and dedicated to their work far beyond normal standards. Our Antarctic program deserves our full support. I would like to see them expand their "artists and authors" program.
73
Well written :-)
4
Our presence isn't a remnant of the cold war as the author suggests, but a continuation of it. I have many friends who worked at McMurdo, some of whom wintered at South Pole Station. They ran science experiments and their comments were that the vast majority of experiments being performed at the antarctic could be run remotely, and the primary reason we are there is to have "boots on the ground" and stake our claim to land, not to do important science.
1
The U.S. needs a much more robust debate about how the nation's resources are allocated for scientific research around the planet and in space. But first, everyone must agree that knowledge and facts matter. Otherwise, why bother with outposts like McMurdo?
A productive debate is not likely to take place with the current president and party in charge of Congress.
A productive debate is not likely to take place with the current president and party in charge of Congress.
7
Did you happen to read the column in the NYT the other day about the money that has been spent on the 15 yr. old conflict in Iraq? McMurdo and studies that scientists conduct in the Antarctic are vital to determing the future health of our planet. Considering whom American voters elect, it would seem trillions spent on ongoing needless wars are acceptable, but, a debate is needed on whether or not resources should be spent on these important scientific studies?
3
deus02, your point is heard and appreciated. But considering how most politicians in the Republican party view the predictions and admonitions by geoscientists about the planetary sciences, an actual debate over these matters would in itself be a cause for celebration. The deniers or the selective approvers of science would have to bring their reasoned opposition into the open for honest and fair debate.
1
Just tell Trump, Tillerson and the GOP the place is loaded with oil and coal, there would be lots of resources!
1
Another canary in the mine warning of the long term decline of the US due to a dysfunctional political system. The GOP is slowly pushing forward it's policy of national suicide.
34
This type of investment, like space travel, has no support on the extremes of either party. The far right wants to spend zero on anything that might require tax or debt, and the far left is far more interested in the social justice wars than competing with Russia and China for Antarctica supremacy. That leaves it to the mainstream or populists who might include Antarctica in their definition of infrastructure. Or maybe there's a voting bloc that likes research not to prove some contentious political point, but for the sake of research. I just don't know if that bloc has a voice.
7
We, the USA, abandoned things like Antarctica research stations, NASA, major infrastructure projects, etc., in exchange for better welfare benefits for our work- challenged citizens, and increased aid for our newest immigrants!
5
That is a boorish comment, and demonstrably false.
8
No, it's abandoned for increasing military budgets. Look at the numbers.
7
Tomas:
When the American economy was booming in the 1950s and 60s, corporations were contributing 35% in tax revenue to the total amount government received. That is now down to less than 11% and guess who had to pick up the difference?
You are right about welfare, though, except it wasn't work-challenged citizens or new immigrants, it was the gigantic growth in "Corporate Welfare".
When the American economy was booming in the 1950s and 60s, corporations were contributing 35% in tax revenue to the total amount government received. That is now down to less than 11% and guess who had to pick up the difference?
You are right about welfare, though, except it wasn't work-challenged citizens or new immigrants, it was the gigantic growth in "Corporate Welfare".
4
The United States of America has a problem much deeper than simply infrastructure. Since Reagan said government is the problem governance has been the problem.There is and always will be problems. The government is their to fix the problems as they evolve. What Anarchists like Goldwater, Reagan, Ryan and MCconnell brought about is a self fulfilling prophecy of inept governance.
Here in Canada we have always relied on government to fix problems but cynicism and nepotism are not a solution to anything. It is only recently that Canada has faced the problem of a political party that only knows how to tear down and that is Southern Alberta's Wildrose Party an import from the USA.
Our healthcare system has evolved for 70 years our infrastructure cannot be repaired overnight. There are no quick fixes. There are no magic wands. Our politics conservative, liberal and democratic socialist understand evolution not revolution especially for a society that is as wealthy and successful as ours.
You cannot repair infrastructure until you fix your fundamentals. America must decide if it wants bottom up governance of the people and by the people or the top down governance announced in Citizens United. There is no middle way the middle is totally occupied in survival in a system that has lost its way.
Here in Canada we have always relied on government to fix problems but cynicism and nepotism are not a solution to anything. It is only recently that Canada has faced the problem of a political party that only knows how to tear down and that is Southern Alberta's Wildrose Party an import from the USA.
Our healthcare system has evolved for 70 years our infrastructure cannot be repaired overnight. There are no quick fixes. There are no magic wands. Our politics conservative, liberal and democratic socialist understand evolution not revolution especially for a society that is as wealthy and successful as ours.
You cannot repair infrastructure until you fix your fundamentals. America must decide if it wants bottom up governance of the people and by the people or the top down governance announced in Citizens United. There is no middle way the middle is totally occupied in survival in a system that has lost its way.
25
Thank you New York Times for update on Operation ice cube. The mockery made of university education is reminiscent of A "Planet of The Apes" sequel or George Orwell's other potboiler than 1984 --Animal Farm. Soon the tweets transited from home will become moos, neighs & oink oinks. America s Idea if Expansion in dealing with Native Americans was massacre. It seems slaughter of decency, common sense & truth is afoot as we make A Giant Iceberg great again. Eco-aware dramatists & climate change-concerned theater artists need to write about this. Theater & plays are about change. There is nothing but transformation around us let our playwrights make it transformation.
6
McMurdo is like a country club today in comparison to years past.
They currently have available a coffee cafe/bar, saunas, yoga classes, decent food, ice machines(!), WIFI, all of the bells and whistles and comforts.
When I was there I slept in a Jamesway, (Quonset style tent w/plywood floor) with a diesel pre-way heater and a metal cot/locker issued by the US Prison system. We had to walk outside to go use the lavatory/shower. What a bunch of babies. Can't even rough it for a few weeks.
This place is luxe compared to other stations and outposts/camps.
BTW the waste and debris was sent to the dump on the outskirts of MacTown and regularly burned in big piles.
Many years ago there used to be a nuclear power plant in McMurdo too! It is a toxic waste site. The Navy put the radioactive waste into 55 gallon drums and dumped them into McMurdo Sound, when it was decommissioned. Brilliant!
They currently have available a coffee cafe/bar, saunas, yoga classes, decent food, ice machines(!), WIFI, all of the bells and whistles and comforts.
When I was there I slept in a Jamesway, (Quonset style tent w/plywood floor) with a diesel pre-way heater and a metal cot/locker issued by the US Prison system. We had to walk outside to go use the lavatory/shower. What a bunch of babies. Can't even rough it for a few weeks.
This place is luxe compared to other stations and outposts/camps.
BTW the waste and debris was sent to the dump on the outskirts of MacTown and regularly burned in big piles.
Many years ago there used to be a nuclear power plant in McMurdo too! It is a toxic waste site. The Navy put the radioactive waste into 55 gallon drums and dumped them into McMurdo Sound, when it was decommissioned. Brilliant!
12
Who cares? It will all be melted in 20 years, right? Right?
1
I admire the scientists and support staff for their commitment. I am also completely supportive of continuing their work and improving the infrastructure. One area they should forget about, in this period of fiscal uncertainty, is wishing for an icebreaker in 2023 when Russia can easily provide one today at a fraction of the cost.
2
How about instead of just assuming that things must be done as in the past we try re-engineering the process. With the internet perhaps some of the scientists don't need to be there any more. With robots perhaps they don't need to roam around outside either. Perhaps we could make a deal with Russia to share some of the science in exchange for transport? If we would say spend 2B there or 500M there and 1.5 billion on roads here I know which is better. How about some private funding as well, the government does not have to do everything themselves?
3
Most of the science done in Antarctica is basic science not applied.
4
Russia might have fifty ice breakers due to the extent of its Arctic coast. Not in competition with the US.
5
Given the majority of the government, perhaps citizens as well, doesn't care about using scientific research to affect policy, why do we keep spending this money? Shut it down and let countries that actually believe in science take it over
2
Come now we do believe in science, just not blindly.
You forgot to mention that McMurdo is in territory controlled by New Zealand (in the Ross Dependency, an area of the realm of New Zealand). A useful comparison might be made with the new NZ base just over the hill, Scott Base: http://www.antarcticanz.govt.nz/scott-base.
9
I visited Antarctica in January, and we stopped at research stations owned by Argentina and Chile. Compared to these McMurdo is like the Ritz.
I guess in 8 years Obama never had time to plan for a new icebreaker, so now its Trump's fault the one we have is a "rust bucket"?
I guess in 8 years Obama never had time to plan for a new icebreaker, so now its Trump's fault the one we have is a "rust bucket"?
7
Yup. Let's just agree that the GOP is the culprit. Tax cuts for the billionaires are more important than science and icebreakers.
3
Obama called for new icebreaker program in Sept 2015.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/us/politics/obama-to-call-for-more-ic...
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/02/us/politics/obama-to-call-for-more-ic...
20
Let's be clear: Trump is not being blamed for the rust bucket ice breaker by the NYT. All is see is, "Now, in an era when the Trump administration is seeking to slash federal spending, the fate of Antarctic research is an open question". You and I probably both agree that Trump is not too keen on global warming and likely won't be keen on increasing funding at McMurdo. Blaming Obama for not having time (or funding) to replace an ice breaker is your prerogative and, Obama is no longer President, Trump is. The ball is in his court now.
I also note that Argentine and Chilean economies cannot support the kind of investment that the still largest economy in the world can. It doesn't surprise me that their installations are less elaborate.
I also note that Argentine and Chilean economies cannot support the kind of investment that the still largest economy in the world can. It doesn't surprise me that their installations are less elaborate.
1
National degeneration and decay.
There is no profit in research that does not involve pharmaceuticals or weapons systems.
Sad.
There is no profit in research that does not involve pharmaceuticals or weapons systems.
Sad.
33
Not long ago the NSF spent at least $250,000,000 building a country club at the South Pole, money that made wintering-over more comfortable, but that did not contribute at all to scientific research.
"Infrastructure" is not always a useful expenditure of money. Sometimes it is just waste (like the "Bridge to Nowhere") Sometimes it is just a slogan wielded by bureaucrats to enlarge their empires, or contractors to expand their business.
"Infrastructure" is not always a useful expenditure of money. Sometimes it is just waste (like the "Bridge to Nowhere") Sometimes it is just a slogan wielded by bureaucrats to enlarge their empires, or contractors to expand their business.
8
Overwintering in Antarctica is like being on a long-duration space mission. It's not a comfortable endeavor. Adding small comforts that help people cope with the isolation and extreme environment does, in fact, increase scientific return. Also I don't know what kind of country clubs you're used to, but I imagine that the nice ones don't make you live in a dorm and eat a diet that consists entirely of frozen foods and dry goods.
23
Have you eaten in Antarctica? The meals there were gourmet quality when I was there in 79. It would be hard to believe that they got worse since then!
Mr. Katz - the overhaul you mentioned was not for a country club it is an NSF request to rebuild the entire base. Facts will set you free. http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/12/overhaul-works-aging-us-antarctic...
5
I was there for 6 months in 1979 and it was a well oiled machine then...I haven't heard much but at that time the National Science Foundation was running the show and doing a good job of it, it seemed.
9
Thanks to the forever war for oil and an increase in funding for the military industrial complex, civilian projects continue to lose funding. Having a government that does not even recognize the need to study global climate change/global warming further reduces funding for the study of the ocean, space, and the rapid increase in stresses on every major ecosystem on the planet. One can only hope that the current administration loses power in the next couple of years.
11
So you believe that this issue happened during the last six months rather than say the previous 8 years? If you believe this a bridge in NYC is for sale.
1
McMurdo looks to be in dire need of a sustainable master plan with a much smaller footprint. It's sad to see that the kind of awful sprawl prevalent in the US has been transported to Antarctica. Can the NYT provide any details on the planned infrastructure?
5
I've seen the plan and it looks impressive and the people running it are top notch. The plan greatly reducing the number of buildings and arranges them logically reducing transit between. They are very energy efficient and laid out so that prevailing winds help keep the thoroughfares clear of snow. It's the type of investment that will quickly pay for itself; the cost is a decimal point on a new Navy ship. Literally. This is a no brainer for congress to fund.
1
True but the roads in every state suck. We need local infrastructure work so we can support science. This is the result of decades of federal and local neglect. This is republican America.
3
Decades where we had Dems in power? They made the ACA instead of fixing the roads and their source of financing. Now Republicans are to blame as well since they don't want to raise the fuel tax.
1
Why couldn't we simply buy icebreaker ships from Russia instead of designing something from scratch? Seems like it would save money and we'd get them a lot sooner.
7
If we did we might have to talk to them in the process, which is as we now well know, collusion.
2
I think the Russians buy their icebreakers from a specialized shipyard in Finland.
Would it be feasible to open McMurdo Station up to tourism on a large enough scale to help fund the place? It seems it operates as a sort of "forbidden city" open only to science elites and those brought in to cater to their needs.
I suspect, however, that the idea of constructing tourism infrastructure would be challenged from an environmental angle, but the real motivation would be to keep the riffraff out. Never mind that most people who would have the motivation, desire, and financial means to visit would probably be the kinds of people who embrace science and environmental responsibility, and would as visitors conduct themselves with the appropriate deference to the land and all who work there.
I suspect, however, that the idea of constructing tourism infrastructure would be challenged from an environmental angle, but the real motivation would be to keep the riffraff out. Never mind that most people who would have the motivation, desire, and financial means to visit would probably be the kinds of people who embrace science and environmental responsibility, and would as visitors conduct themselves with the appropriate deference to the land and all who work there.
Seriously? Do you realize the degradation that would occur in a short amount of time to a pristine and lovely part of the world?
McDonalds, cheeseburger wrappers blowing across the glacier, penquins eating the styrofoam cups that blew into their birthing areas. Get the image? Not pretty in my mind. Keep tourism and tourists OUT!! Only let certified scientists in!!
McDonalds, cheeseburger wrappers blowing across the glacier, penquins eating the styrofoam cups that blew into their birthing areas. Get the image? Not pretty in my mind. Keep tourism and tourists OUT!! Only let certified scientists in!!
5
I am an outdoor enthusiast who has visited many pristine areas at which visitors have conducted themselves quite responsibly; here in the Pacific Northwest of the U.S., where there is plenty of nature to be explored, a strong environmental ethic pervades. I believe that this would be possible in Antarctica as well. Bear in mind that the profile of a visitor to Antarctica is probably not going to be that of a person prone to throw candy wrappers and water bottles on the ground.
If it would help, there could be strict regulations against disposable packaging and dishware, and other measures taken to protect the ecosystem. And, fine, keep the chain establishments out if you think it would be tacky.
Look, I'm trying to look for solutions here. If tourism can close a funding gap, you'd have to ask yourself, do you want no McMurdo Station at all, or do you want one that has a little bit of a tourism industry on the side. Take your pick.
If it would help, there could be strict regulations against disposable packaging and dishware, and other measures taken to protect the ecosystem. And, fine, keep the chain establishments out if you think it would be tacky.
Look, I'm trying to look for solutions here. If tourism can close a funding gap, you'd have to ask yourself, do you want no McMurdo Station at all, or do you want one that has a little bit of a tourism industry on the side. Take your pick.
7
While your recommendation is earnest and contains many solid ideas, please know that it's already possible to visit Antarctica. However, the tourism industry that specializes in Antarctica -- with strict rules about: bring it in, take it out -- these are for-profit operations with zero incentive to support anything other than their own operations.
Antarctica has no sovereignty, no government, and oversight is rendered under The Antarctic Treaty when nation-states monitor each other.
Finally, McMurdo isn't on anyone's commercial agenda, much, b/c of its inaccessibility. But there are private expeditions you can pay for that will take you most anywhere on the continent.
It's a wonderful place, humbling, mighty and is best employed as a continent for science -- one ideal in The Antarctic Treaty. Tourists are welcome, especially tourists who visit lightly on the land.
Antarctica has no sovereignty, no government, and oversight is rendered under The Antarctic Treaty when nation-states monitor each other.
Finally, McMurdo isn't on anyone's commercial agenda, much, b/c of its inaccessibility. But there are private expeditions you can pay for that will take you most anywhere on the continent.
It's a wonderful place, humbling, mighty and is best employed as a continent for science -- one ideal in The Antarctic Treaty. Tourists are welcome, especially tourists who visit lightly on the land.
National Geographic has a terrific article on ice shelf collapse that shows why this research is so essential:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/07/antarctica-sea-level-...
Canada also needs more and better icebreakers. I wonder if there's any way two or more countries could cooperate on at least design and construction, maybe even operation, of these essential vessels.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/07/antarctica-sea-level-...
Canada also needs more and better icebreakers. I wonder if there's any way two or more countries could cooperate on at least design and construction, maybe even operation, of these essential vessels.
14
Make Antarctica Great Again!
11
Neither Trump nor the GOP are likely to support MORE funds (lucky if there will be ANY funds), findings from there neither support the climate change denial they insist upon nor prop up Trump's antiquated view of the US hegemony due to oil.
We need leadership.
The world is shifting away from oil and the internal combustion engine. Instead we have the GOP: Bluff, Bluster & Bully. Sure they can take the US backwards, killing millions of us off in the process, but that won't make anything great.
We need leadership.
The world is shifting away from oil and the internal combustion engine. Instead we have the GOP: Bluff, Bluster & Bully. Sure they can take the US backwards, killing millions of us off in the process, but that won't make anything great.
15
The world is switching? No they are not, at least not very fast. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093560_1-2-billion-vehicles-on-worl...
Just tell Trump he gets to put his name on the front of the building in "huge" gold letters. You'll get the funding.
89
"Yuge".
It is not liberal hyperbole to assert that “science” does not have the cachet that it once had in America. Donald Trump’s often rambling and barely coherent attacks upon scientific knowledge are a symptom and not a cause of this shift in popular belief. Perhaps three decades of Republican attacks upon factual knowledge and the people who create such knowledge have finally succeeded but when the majority of a self-defined group (i.e., “Republicans”) openly express their contempt towards the very process of university education, then it is clear that we have entered some kind of neo Dark Age. Those who fear education and knowledge are believers in a static world of magical thinking and received wisdom in which nothing – especially social and economic mobility – ever changes, and where the question “Why?” must never be asked because those in power will tell you everything you need to know. The problem is not money and arguments about funding levels are distractions from the real issue which involves a obstinate and deliberate ideology of ignorance that shows no sign of dissipating.
67
Perfectly stated Jason. We live in The Endarkenment. Still reacting against the light. A grievous loss—that most cannot realize the real mysteries and awe lie beneath the quantum foam and outside the reach of the Hubble. Heisenberg's words set the truth out plainly: “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God is waiting for you.”
It is, tragically, not Estragon and Vladimir who wait.
It is, tragically, not Estragon and Vladimir who wait.
4
Oh Napes, what a wonderful quote from Heisenberg. Certainly this is not the 4000 year-old biblically bound God which left a fragile humanity squabbling over ruins in the desert, igniting the world in that wake of a provincial tribalism rooted in resource dominance.
2
Another article showing the state of affairs in America during the Trump era. This time, the scientific infrastructure decay in the Antarctica, once considered the most advanced and ambitious in the South Pole.
The global news media cycle nowadays is dominated by two opposite realities. The rise of China and the steady decline of the US. The former firmly pursuing a rising super power agenda and the latter directionless and plagued by self-doubts.
The global news media cycle nowadays is dominated by two opposite realities. The rise of China and the steady decline of the US. The former firmly pursuing a rising super power agenda and the latter directionless and plagued by self-doubts.
27
Come now Obama had eight years to address this, yet you blame Trump who has been president for 6 months. How idiotic!!!
2
You do realize that Trump hasn't had anything to do with the current state of affairs in Antarctica (or any where else, for that matter. he's only been in office since Jan 2017.)
Obviously this is a matter that your hero Obama should have fixed, but no, he was too busy giving more welfare to more unqualified non US citizens!!
Obviously this is a matter that your hero Obama should have fixed, but no, he was too busy giving more welfare to more unqualified non US citizens!!
2
Trump is a symptom of a great ailment. Congress. They haven't funded Antarctica because it's a threat to their Faux Christian base.
A hairstylist? Hahah. She's giving the guy a military buzz cut. I could do that to myself, blindfolded.
The whole thing is a big ol' waste o' resources. What have we found down there that is of any use? Thumbs down, retract all funding - ASAP.
The whole thing is a big ol' waste o' resources. What have we found down there that is of any use? Thumbs down, retract all funding - ASAP.
2
For one we have found meteorites that came from the planet Mars. The environment in Antarctica is pristine and these rocks can be found if you know where to look. This is science at its most basic. Also, the ice cores that can be drilled into the surface of the glaciers can provide thousands of years of climate records.
49
Even if you do not value science and the economically helpful discoveries that come from it, perhaps you could appreciate the fact that, as the ice melts both in the Antarctic and Arctic, Russia and other nations are getting positioned to exploit, for better or worse, new shipping channels, mining, and other opportunities. We will be left on the sidelines, a second rate country with little power or influence. We are so used to having the advantage of influence and power, I fear that many Republicans don't realize how they will miss them when we are buffeted by stronger nations.
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i whole heartedly support the us pulling out of its south pole base.. us australians would love to claim the area if you guys dont want it any more
12
We should press for collaboration with other nations. This is a waste for so many individual countries to have separate operations.
Why doesn't the UN sponsor a single station where all UN members share in the knowledge.
Why doesn't the UN sponsor a single station where all UN members share in the knowledge.
5
there is no point having a single station. they all do separate research all over the continent and share the research anyway
1
Why not the UN? Well, the US has been doing its best to undermine the UN. Remember GWB?
In fact there is already quite a bit of collaboration between nations on Antarctic operations. For example, I flew down to McMurdo on military transport from New Zealand as part of a U.S.-funded research project. Transport for research as well as search and rescue operations is frequently shared between nations, and many research programs have international participation (as is common for most scientific research these days). You can't survive on Antarctica without working with your neighbors. In addition, a single station wouldn't serve the needs of every scientific endeavor--imagine trying to study an area larger than the continental U.S. with a single base station. That area is also covered in ice and has no roads, electricity, or any infrastructure to speak of. It's not as efficient as it might sound on paper.
Waste. Two thirds is recycled? How can that be possible? There is always something that remains. Is the waste flown to other areas to be processed?
The container ship that delivers supplies each year returns north carrying a year's worth of recycling and waste. Sorting trash is taken seriously on station (there are typically many different bins), there is a culture of reusing and repurposing, and there are workers who process, sort and pack waste and recycling into containers to be shipped north.
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All of the waste is shipped back to California on a supply vessel. The recycling income covers most of the waste department's budget.
Should you be inclined to watch Antarctica: A Year on Ice or even Anthony Bourdain's recent show you would learn that they don't just put all of their garbage in one bin, they have sorting centers in every building and they micro sort according to how they recycle.
Should you be inclined to watch Antarctica: A Year on Ice or even Anthony Bourdain's recent show you would learn that they don't just put all of their garbage in one bin, they have sorting centers in every building and they micro sort according to how they recycle.
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All waste not reused at the base is shipped back out again. That includes human waste.
Would it be feasible to use balloons for the heavy lifting?
1
Hey 700 billion for the military .... 3 trillion in Iraq ... lord knows how much in Syria and Afghanistan ........ who needs Science, Education, Health Care, the Coast Guard, Infrastructure, common sense ............... We spend the money on what we do best bombing and killing.
Orange, NJ
Orange, NJ
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Sounds like 1984.
With a name like Zukunft ("future") one can't but hope the project will succeed!
1
Many things that so many of us care about are not on the President's list. I believe his campaign words about rebuilding infrastructure were an attractive lie. I don't think he is going to spend a cent on roads or bridges or crumbling buildings. I am drying my tears and continuing on with life while I wait for a wiser President.