The only real purchase made on residences in and around NYC appears to be the right to pay a pretty steep rent in the guise of maintenance fees and/or taxes.
2
"The city is uncomfortable and inconvenient; but New Yorkers temperamentally do not crave comfort and convenience—if they did they would live elsewhere.” —E. B. White
9
Come to Baltimore! I just bought a completely refurbished 1880s row home, 7 fireplaces, 4.5 bathrooms, 3000+ sq feet plus another 1000 sq feet of finished basement in historic Mount Vernon downtown for 605k. I'm 6 blocks from the train station that goes to DC every 10 minutes during the week for $8. It's not NYC but the harbor area is beautiful and there are plenty of shops, museums, restaurants and bars within walking distance. And lots of other interesting places to see on the weekends.
8
The taxes and fees reacted to in these comments are just a small part of the additional costs of buying in NYC. What if we add the co-op mandated buyer reserves to the cost of apartments? And then add the fact that a board can reject a buyer with no real explanation as to why? The Times is a great paper, but on housing I think there could be more advocacy, more reporting. Would love to see some innovation in the Real Estate section. Meanwhile, it's really great to see the Times reporting on this segment of the housing market. Thanks!
3
A list of properties for sale for around $450k, and all there is in NYC is two studios. Man that is depressing.
8
This is a puff piece highlighting a handful of properties. This is not an exhaustive search of available units in a price range.
3
They couldn't include a one bedroom?
There is a bathroom... just click on the address, which is a link to the broker's website which shows a floorplan of the studio.
In the 1950's New York faced housing crisis. The middle class was being priced out and the working class was condemned to tenements.
The political leaders at that time responded with the Mitchell/Lamma program which financed thousands coops for the middle class and a massive urban renewal program that built thousands of units of public housing.
Today there is a similar housing crisis and the response from our political leaders is ZERO!
The political leaders at that time responded with the Mitchell/Lamma program which financed thousands coops for the middle class and a massive urban renewal program that built thousands of units of public housing.
Today there is a similar housing crisis and the response from our political leaders is ZERO!
15
It is astounding that maintenance costs and taxes for these tiny places can be over $2,000 a month in addition to the mortgage. How does the working class survive?
11
I recall driving along the LIE in the late 60s seeing the signs for 'Homes' going for $11k and less. Of course that was before the great unraveling when anyone with a decent job could put a roof over their head. Nobody thought anything of it. Then the rich decided they needed all the money...
19
$11,000 was a lot of money when you made $75 a week.
2
Get a job that allows you to telecommute. I work in an expensive state and moved to a small coastal city in NC. I bought a beautiful home for 72K. Every wall and ceiling in my home are real wood panels. My floors are all hardwood. I have closets everywhere, a full attic and basement. For 15K I had the entire house rewired, the CHA upgraded, painted, etc. I live in an upscale neighborhood on a beautiful tidal creek and 200' from a river that doubles as the Intercoastal Waterway. Because I can order pretty much everything I need onlne, I do not feel deprived. If you are enslaved by your job, then you are a slave. I have clients in NYC and I feel sorry for them, not just for the outrageous rents, but they complain of the endless lines and the senseless bureaucracy.
11
Sounds pretty, but you may want to sell before climate change really gets serious.
13
My wife and I just bought a house, built in 1976, 2300 sq ft living space plus about 1200 as ft finished basement and two-car garage on a 10000 sq ft property, for 180,000 Euro, in Bavaria, lol.
I know that's irrelevant here, but what I wanted to point out is our yearly tax bill, which we received last week. It was 220 Euro for the year. No I didn't leave off a zero.
We pay taxes in other ways here, of course, especially the 19% VAT and high fuel tax, but when I compare the amount we pay total and the services we receive for the money to the situation in the US, I'm left wondering what in the world is wrong with the system across the pond.
I know that's irrelevant here, but what I wanted to point out is our yearly tax bill, which we received last week. It was 220 Euro for the year. No I didn't leave off a zero.
We pay taxes in other ways here, of course, especially the 19% VAT and high fuel tax, but when I compare the amount we pay total and the services we receive for the money to the situation in the US, I'm left wondering what in the world is wrong with the system across the pond.
32
The prices in both places depend on the location. You can get prices like that here too, you just have to move to less desirable location. The prices for example in Munich are definitely a lot higher than your house and comparable to the list here.
https://www.ft.com/content/9b5df910-baba-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb?mhq5j=e1
On the other hand you are right and there are plenty of things wrong here with the system.
https://www.ft.com/content/9b5df910-baba-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb?mhq5j=e1
On the other hand you are right and there are plenty of things wrong here with the system.
5
Mr. Garabrant, don't realtors in Germany tell you that "it's location location location"?
I could find you a house in the USA for half that cost....but it would be in urban Detroit. I could find you a wide variety of housing in the US for $180,000 -- even in fairly good regions, near large cities -- houses, condos, etc.
Housing in Germany is not cheaper nor more affordable than in the US. Also, if you only pay 220 Euros in taxes...then you are not funding things like your school system or police/fire protection that method. You are comparing apples & oranges. You indicate your VAT is 19% and is that your ONLY sales tax? In most parts of the US, sales tax is 6% to 9% -- less than half as much -- and remember, sales taxes are VERY regressive and fall most heavily on the poor & working classes.
I could find you a house in the USA for half that cost....but it would be in urban Detroit. I could find you a wide variety of housing in the US for $180,000 -- even in fairly good regions, near large cities -- houses, condos, etc.
Housing in Germany is not cheaper nor more affordable than in the US. Also, if you only pay 220 Euros in taxes...then you are not funding things like your school system or police/fire protection that method. You are comparing apples & oranges. You indicate your VAT is 19% and is that your ONLY sales tax? In most parts of the US, sales tax is 6% to 9% -- less than half as much -- and remember, sales taxes are VERY regressive and fall most heavily on the poor & working classes.
7
Well, having been raised in a small town in Germany, I can tell you I wouldn't move back if the house were free. Lots of fun in Kulmbach, I'm sure, but not for all the tea in China would I want to go back to that.
1
I was especially intrigued by the New Jersey property. $1033 per month in maintenance plus $12,665 in taxes. How do people do that? It's a one-bedroom apartment. How much money does one need to make in order to live in the NYC catchment area?! Astounding.
26
Exactly. But, it's New York compared to OR.
2
That's very roughly a bit over $2000...so yes, very costly but also probably "normal" in a hyper-inflated region of the US.
Is it crazy? Yes. And last time prices escalated out of control...there was a very harsh correction. It will be harsher next time.
Is it crazy? Yes. And last time prices escalated out of control...there was a very harsh correction. It will be harsher next time.
In about 1952 my parents looked for their first private home. I think it was a little cape cod on Long Island. I remember, vaguely, they said the price was $10,000 or so. I didn't fully understand at age 6 but I knew intuitively that it was a great deal of money. Mom and dad were both veterans of WWII and we lived in a 2 room apartment in the Bronx on Cypress Ave, at about 138th St. near the Grand Concourse. Four of us slept in one bedroom. My folks never bought their first home until 1961. The price then was $24,900 for 3 bedroom split level home with 2.5 baths, a den, laundry room and family room on the lowest level. It was a dream come true. A couple of years later, then with 4 of us kids, they bought a new much larger home for $46,700. I thought they were rich!
I'm older now. In fact I'll be 70 this September. When I see these prices and also know what I've paid for homes over the years I simply shudder. I don't know how anyone can afford a home at these prices. The $319,000 bi-level offered on Long Island should rightly sell for only about $19,000 to $23,000. That's what it might have been in 1963. I know. It's 2017.
My home here in Florida is about $850,000. I'm retired. But, still even after all these years I think this is just nuts. My wife and I are lucky. We worked over 40 years to be able to retire. The only problem is our money is worthless and homes are priced through the roof. How can a young family start out with such prices?
They can't.
I'm older now. In fact I'll be 70 this September. When I see these prices and also know what I've paid for homes over the years I simply shudder. I don't know how anyone can afford a home at these prices. The $319,000 bi-level offered on Long Island should rightly sell for only about $19,000 to $23,000. That's what it might have been in 1963. I know. It's 2017.
My home here in Florida is about $850,000. I'm retired. But, still even after all these years I think this is just nuts. My wife and I are lucky. We worked over 40 years to be able to retire. The only problem is our money is worthless and homes are priced through the roof. How can a young family start out with such prices?
They can't.
35
Since the 1950s....prices have increased but so has the cost of living and salaries. You can estimate (very roughly) 10 times.
Also: my parents bought their first home in 1952 and they were far from wealthy. The banks would not count my mom's income -- she was a wife! and they figured (correctly) she'd soon be pregnant and quit her job. Their first home, a very modest colonial with 3 bedrooms and one bathroom, on a tiny lot in Northeast Ohio, cost $19,900. I know this to the penny! They paid it off in 20 years (by making extra payments) and burned the mortgage when I turned 17.
So a $10,000 bungalow in 1952 was a VERY modest home, not "expensive" by the standards of the day. Still, your family seems not to have been able to afforded it and did not buy until 1960s....but when they DID buy, that $46K house was above the median of that era. So they prospered.
I can't tell if you PAID $850K for your current home, or if it is worth that much in today's hyper-inflated Florida housing boom market -- but if you don't realize how much more that is than the median housing price (about $180K or so) OR that it is at the top of even the Florida market -- that it puts you squarely in the 1% -- you are naive indeed.
In 1952, BTW, the minimum wage was 75 cents an hour.
DO THE MATH. Of course homes were cheap back then!
Also: my parents bought their first home in 1952 and they were far from wealthy. The banks would not count my mom's income -- she was a wife! and they figured (correctly) she'd soon be pregnant and quit her job. Their first home, a very modest colonial with 3 bedrooms and one bathroom, on a tiny lot in Northeast Ohio, cost $19,900. I know this to the penny! They paid it off in 20 years (by making extra payments) and burned the mortgage when I turned 17.
So a $10,000 bungalow in 1952 was a VERY modest home, not "expensive" by the standards of the day. Still, your family seems not to have been able to afforded it and did not buy until 1960s....but when they DID buy, that $46K house was above the median of that era. So they prospered.
I can't tell if you PAID $850K for your current home, or if it is worth that much in today's hyper-inflated Florida housing boom market -- but if you don't realize how much more that is than the median housing price (about $180K or so) OR that it is at the top of even the Florida market -- that it puts you squarely in the 1% -- you are naive indeed.
In 1952, BTW, the minimum wage was 75 cents an hour.
DO THE MATH. Of course homes were cheap back then!
4
concerned citizen - No, I'm not naive. I bought the home at $700,000 and its appreciated in the last 3 years. Too much in my view for ordinary buyers. And, yes our parents did well, but they still had to accumulate the downpayment qualify with one wage earner. And, they prospered because they were educated and hard working. Very hard.
What you fail to account for is the depreciation of the dollar. Our dad earned more than $100,000 a year in 1962. A small fortune for the time. But, it was 17 years after WWII. Immediately after the end of the war when he returned in 1946, dad barely earned $35 a week! Plus he had 2 kids to support. Mom used to sew samples by hand because dad couldn't afford sample hands. But, we weren't starving and there was no food stamp program, no housing allowances, no health care and no unemployment comp. I remember my parent's struggle. And my wife and I started out with humble beginnings in a one bedroom apartment too. It only took 40 plus years to get here. I believe that housing is unaffordable for most young people and too many others. I believe our dollar isn't worth as much. I believe our government is failing us. Do the math. Millions are getting hurt and not making it. That is an economic disaster that will only worsen. Our democracy is at risk of failing. I'm part of the 1%...the 1% that believes we need a more equal society.
What you fail to account for is the depreciation of the dollar. Our dad earned more than $100,000 a year in 1962. A small fortune for the time. But, it was 17 years after WWII. Immediately after the end of the war when he returned in 1946, dad barely earned $35 a week! Plus he had 2 kids to support. Mom used to sew samples by hand because dad couldn't afford sample hands. But, we weren't starving and there was no food stamp program, no housing allowances, no health care and no unemployment comp. I remember my parent's struggle. And my wife and I started out with humble beginnings in a one bedroom apartment too. It only took 40 plus years to get here. I believe that housing is unaffordable for most young people and too many others. I believe our dollar isn't worth as much. I believe our government is failing us. Do the math. Millions are getting hurt and not making it. That is an economic disaster that will only worsen. Our democracy is at risk of failing. I'm part of the 1%...the 1% that believes we need a more equal society.
14
During Carter's presidency people that owned such homes triumphed and people that didn't own such home paid for it.
That's what happened in years running 16% to 18% inflation. House prices doubled in 4 years.
That's what happened in years running 16% to 18% inflation. House prices doubled in 4 years.
1
Somehow seeing how little you get for a half million dollars and $2000+ per month ongoing charges, is just as depressing as the astronomical prices for attractive properties in the region. Does that Brooklyn studio really have a view of an airshaft? How many studio lights did they bring in for the pictures?
24
It looks pretty -- even with the air shaft -- if it was the bedroom in a nice 2 bedroom apartment with a living room and dining room and another bedroom.
As your ENTIRE LIVING SPACE...it is horrifying and claustrophobic.
Also: though I know most readers here revile "flyover country"....$616 a month would get you a nice little 3 bedroom house, in a safe neighborhood, on a 1/4 acre lot with a garden and a garage of your own. That's IN TOTAL. No $349,000 purchase price. That $616 would be the TOTAL mortgage, taxes, insurance, principal and interest.
As your ENTIRE LIVING SPACE...it is horrifying and claustrophobic.
Also: though I know most readers here revile "flyover country"....$616 a month would get you a nice little 3 bedroom house, in a safe neighborhood, on a 1/4 acre lot with a garden and a garage of your own. That's IN TOTAL. No $349,000 purchase price. That $616 would be the TOTAL mortgage, taxes, insurance, principal and interest.
7
My god. How can anyone afford monthly maintenance and these outrageous property taxes? Add to that your federal, state, and city tax and you'll hardly have anything left over to buy food.
20
Manhattan: home of the $500,000 studio. Unreal.
29
For the life of me, I can't imagine what would make me move to NYC and pay this kind of money. We have so many people moving to Philadelphia from NYC and DC because the prices are way out of control.
6
I think they all look expensive combined with the high property taxes and maintenance. It's scary what they are saying about property taxes in Connecticut going up so much. It's scary what they are saying about real estate everywhere being at record highs. If you have to sell these homes in 5 or 7 years and the mortgage interest rate is 7%, they will be unaffordable unless the prices are greatly reduced.
6
The Manhattan co-op looks to have been a very good deal made at the price of $499,000 in a lovely neighborhood.
10
I guess it is all relative -- it's "cheap" if other apartments cost over $1 million for a junior one bedroom.
If I had to live in a windowless single room the rest of my life....I'd go stark raving mad. NO city amenities...NO job...no restaurants or cultural activities would make up for the grinding, grating misery of living in one single room or staring at pea green walls 24/7.
If I had to live in a windowless single room the rest of my life....I'd go stark raving mad. NO city amenities...NO job...no restaurants or cultural activities would make up for the grinding, grating misery of living in one single room or staring at pea green walls 24/7.
16
Just get a giant TV and stare at it instead of the green walls. You'll be fine.
5
@opinionated4: uh...no thanks. If staring at a TV set 24/7 is your idea of a "life"....go for it.
I need to have windows...natural light...quiet...a small garden...be able to look outside at a tree or something green...have some indoors space to store things....and not feel like a sardine in a can.
Your mileage may differ. Obviously millions live in NYC under these conditions, and one presumes they choose it, so its great that we all have choices. This could not and never will be MY choice.
I need to have windows...natural light...quiet...a small garden...be able to look outside at a tree or something green...have some indoors space to store things....and not feel like a sardine in a can.
Your mileage may differ. Obviously millions live in NYC under these conditions, and one presumes they choose it, so its great that we all have choices. This could not and never will be MY choice.