Could we have the ombudsman, back, please, instead of the cheapo "Reader's Center"? And allow me to suggest that you reverse the decision to follow your rival, the Washington Post, into the downward spiral that ensues when you cut copy editors. I am one, and if I had a nickel for every author I've saved from himself in the past 30 years, I could have retired already.
3
Re reducing the NYT's copy editing staff: Over the past few years, I've noticed an increasing number of grammatical, syntactical, and punctuation errors in the New York Times. If I read more than three articles at a sitting, I'm almost certain to find at least one such error. A newspaper like the NYT should serve not only as an example of well-edited writing, but as an educational tool for those who aspire to write (and edit) well. Unfortunately, I see it gradually abandoning both of those roles.
3
Dear Mr. Baquet,
I have made the Sunday NYT a part of my weekly
regimen for years. From the NYT, it extended far beyond political to me: I learned geography, psychology, sociology, culture and embraced that diversity can be both beautiful and different.
By scaling back on copy editors, you are turning down accuracy and accountability. These are valuable and priceless traits that gain respect among readers.
I have made the Sunday NYT a part of my weekly
regimen for years. From the NYT, it extended far beyond political to me: I learned geography, psychology, sociology, culture and embraced that diversity can be both beautiful and different.
By scaling back on copy editors, you are turning down accuracy and accountability. These are valuable and priceless traits that gain respect among readers.
3
Another question for Mr. Baquet: If you are having to cut staff, why are you assigning reporters to cover such totally insignificant stuff as some actress's tweet about whether her dog was abused by the shelter it came from?
News by & about Twitter is the death of journalism.
News by & about Twitter is the death of journalism.
6
If it was desired to emphasize the shooting victim's professional status, as opposed to her gender, it could easily have been done without repeating the word "doctor". E.g., " Doctor Opens Fire at Bronx Hospital, Killing Colleague and Wounding 6 Others." Maybe a copy editor could have helped with the wording.
6
Dear Mr. Chang: Check even the limited history of this Reader Center, and the Public Editor, and headlines mismatched to the content below is a hardy perennial. The first step in solving a problem is to acknowledge it.
In that regard, the Times still has a long way to go.
In that regard, the Times still has a long way to go.
3
Click "Reader Center" above this headline, and it opens up an archive of more than just the two entries, each with more than one piece, scrolled together willy nilly.
Here, from April 3, or 58 days before the "Reader Center" was announced, concomitant with the defenestration of the Public Editor position, was this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/nytnow/how-to-get-the-most-out-of-you...®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=8&pgtype=sectionfront
If this peppy self promotion is the Times' concept of how to "build deeper ties with our readers," I am afraid you are doomed to failure. Asking us to sign up for 40 separate e-mail notifications? The Spam Postman Always Rings Twice.
Some of the suggestions on "how to get the most out of your New York Times subscription" involve paying even MORE for things nestled behind additional paywalls. And, as a premium "Times Insider" subscriber, I strenuously object to content of the Times that is found only on facebook, twitter or instagram, on none of which do I participate.
Here, from April 3, or 58 days before the "Reader Center" was announced, concomitant with the defenestration of the Public Editor position, was this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/nytnow/how-to-get-the-most-out-of-you...®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=8&pgtype=sectionfront
If this peppy self promotion is the Times' concept of how to "build deeper ties with our readers," I am afraid you are doomed to failure. Asking us to sign up for 40 separate e-mail notifications? The Spam Postman Always Rings Twice.
Some of the suggestions on "how to get the most out of your New York Times subscription" involve paying even MORE for things nestled behind additional paywalls. And, as a premium "Times Insider" subscriber, I strenuously object to content of the Times that is found only on facebook, twitter or instagram, on none of which do I participate.
4
Neither will I ever use Facebook, Twitter or Instagram for news (or anything else). The NYTimes is trying to make themselves more like everyone else -- and that's a BAD thing.
4
Wait, wait, a Times media reporter, Daniel Victor is questioning another outlet's use of anonymous sourcing?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/business/media/cnn-trump-tweet.html?r...®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Trending&pgtype=article
Oh pot, kettle on the phone for you...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/business/media/cnn-trump-tweet.html?r...®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Trending&pgtype=article
Oh pot, kettle on the phone for you...
3
The only reason there is not a more diverse mix of wedding announcements is the cost. These things cost a fortune to put in the Times. It's the same with the Obits. They charge by the word.
1
Funny, I don't think they're upper-crust enough. I want these pages to be far more elitist. It's time to close the barn doors, don't you think?
1
See the 5th paragraph on the recently published Christie story:
"adament"
Bring back the editors!
"adament"
Bring back the editors!
7
NY Times has been one of very few publications with almost no misspellings. Of course this is not the most important criterion, but it is important to me as a reader. "Adament" indeed. Sickening.
1
Nah. When my husband and I were engaged in 1989, he submitted an announcement to your paper that was totally ignored. He was a Harvard grad and a published assistant professor at New York/Cornell hospital. I had an M. A. from Penn, and was a doctoral student there, with managerial experience at Booze-Allen and NBC.
Unfortunately, my husband's mother was a Belarusian immigrant, single mother and cleaning woman. On my side, my deceased father had only achieved the station of elementary school principal in Bucks County, PA.
We had no social connections at all, and felt quite sure that this was the reason for your rejection of my fiancé's submission. Makes me angry to think of it even now, actually.
Unfortunately, my husband's mother was a Belarusian immigrant, single mother and cleaning woman. On my side, my deceased father had only achieved the station of elementary school principal in Bucks County, PA.
We had no social connections at all, and felt quite sure that this was the reason for your rejection of my fiancé's submission. Makes me angry to think of it even now, actually.
11
Relax. You didn't miss out on anything. It's been socially unacceptable, in polite circles, to have your wedding announcement in the NYT for at least the last 30 years. Treat the omission as a blessing.
2
Count your blessings: Everyone I've ever known who had their wedding announced in the Times were divorced within 10 years.
4
Why do you care at all about this, especially more than 20 years later? Why did you submit the announcement in the first place? Your comment reeks of insecurity.
I only read the ones with pictures...same as I do with obituaries
The couple are both doctors, lawyers or investment bankers and their parents are doctors, lawyers and investment bankers. They met at Yale or Harvard where they were each getting a masters or doctorate. That's half the announcements in a nutshell. But still there's variation: did they meet at an exclusive summer camp or through friends at brunch? Did they both graduate summa cum laude? How many ancestors came over on the Mayflower? The wedding section exists in a world devoid of blue collar workers, the middle class or the poor.
6
Every week, especially lately with politics so fraught, I get a yen for my "wedding fix." The time when I know for sure I can read some good news - an interesting way that people met or a quirky type of romance.
It's true, as the Times admits, that most of these wedding stories are pretty upper crust. And I'm not sure where we would fit in, though we did, over time, manage a Ph.D apiece. And we did have an very interesting "love story" - but being very private people, the Times never got our story. And never will. (It all happened so quickly anyway.)
But I will never tire of these wonderful tales of love. (Ours is now 50 years old & still going strong. Indeed, we've found that old age can be like a second honeymoon - knowing time is precious and not forever.)
I have no advice to offer, nor any criticisms. My favorite story, I think, was the time a guy planned a Surprise Wedding. (Maybe you could reprint that one.)
Thanks a bunch for my weekly wedding fix! I so need any good news. Especially these days.
It's true, as the Times admits, that most of these wedding stories are pretty upper crust. And I'm not sure where we would fit in, though we did, over time, manage a Ph.D apiece. And we did have an very interesting "love story" - but being very private people, the Times never got our story. And never will. (It all happened so quickly anyway.)
But I will never tire of these wonderful tales of love. (Ours is now 50 years old & still going strong. Indeed, we've found that old age can be like a second honeymoon - knowing time is precious and not forever.)
I have no advice to offer, nor any criticisms. My favorite story, I think, was the time a guy planned a Surprise Wedding. (Maybe you could reprint that one.)
Thanks a bunch for my weekly wedding fix! I so need any good news. Especially these days.
2
Re economic diversity in the wedding announcements, the purpose of the paper is to make money for its owners. Cute weddings of the well heeled sells more papers.
1
Get real.
Tell us the colleges your staff graduated from, and if they were "legacies".
Too many Brown grads work for the NYT.
Tell us the colleges your staff graduated from, and if they were "legacies".
Too many Brown grads work for the NYT.
3
Feeling disappointed at not being able to afford the wedding pages of the New York Times strikes me as a canary camouflaged in your cake's yellow dressing.
I know, how about a handwritten announcement to everyone you love written by both of you in alternating lines to its conclusion followed by your signatures. Trust me, the Times won't be worth a dime.
I know, how about a handwritten announcement to everyone you love written by both of you in alternating lines to its conclusion followed by your signatures. Trust me, the Times won't be worth a dime.
How does one "build" a "tie" with an audience? And when did a readership become an audience? Was that intro word-processed during the walkout?
2
The Times' success in doing this put an end to one of the more diverting Sunday morning games, Separated at Birth. Points were won by finding newlywed couples drawn from such a confined gene pool that they were almost identical.
4
Do you remember the front page article at the NYT about the sperm donor whose offspring were in their early 20's? Several of them found each other on the internet. The donor and four of "his" kids were shown on the front page in separate photos. And, they look remarkably alike and like their donor father.
It was the first time, I realized these offspring are no doubt meeting on college campuses. We should have restrictions on how often men can be donors. Other countries do this. This particular donor lived in a trailer in the desert in California.
It was the first time, I realized these offspring are no doubt meeting on college campuses. We should have restrictions on how often men can be donors. Other countries do this. This particular donor lived in a trailer in the desert in California.
Since there is no presence for this "feature" anywhere on the Times' site map, it is necessary to bookmark or search to find it. Searching t, then clucking on the words "reader center" produce a "section," which include three "facebook live drawings," two "Times Video" pieces and another video link. They go back as far as January of this year, long before any such "reader center" was announced to the public, let alone opened with fanfare.
https://www.nytimes.com/section/reader-center?action=click&contentCo...®ion=Header&pgtype=article
Why is there STILL no place on the sitemap for this "feature," and why the disproportionate attention to Styles?
https://www.nytimes.com/section/reader-center?action=click&contentCo...®ion=Header&pgtype=article
Why is there STILL no place on the sitemap for this "feature," and why the disproportionate attention to Styles?
4
Bring back the Public Editor!
7
2
Re: the last of diversity in the wedding announcements. Is there a fee associated with having a wedding announced in the NYT? If there is, perhaps the fee is an added financial burden for many couples trying to cover the numerous expenses of getting married. Maybe the Times can provide some funds to cover the posting of a Wedding announcement for financially eligible couples?
1
If there is a fee, which I don't think there is, it should be much higher. The NYT seems to be strapped for cash at the moment so a good six-figure fee to get your wedding announcement in the paper seems like a darn good idea. Doesn't matter who or what you are just as long as you have the cash! How open minded is that? I wouldn't take checks, just a suggestion.
1
I have recently noted this past week stories reported by all other news outlets but not the NYT. I suggest that now is not the time to be cutting staff but in fact making sure that the stories printed have full resources behind them from inception to print.
Stand up for the reputation and necessity of a free and accurate press.
Stand up for the reputation and necessity of a free and accurate press.
2
Be honest now.
Everyone knows NY's demographics.
It seems a certain economic bracket and a certain ethnic/religious/cultural group have filled the pages for years.
As one example...the population of blacks and Hispanics have never been given a proportional share of the pages.
Everyone knows NY's demographics.
It seems a certain economic bracket and a certain ethnic/religious/cultural group have filled the pages for years.
As one example...the population of blacks and Hispanics have never been given a proportional share of the pages.
1
I'm also interested in wedding announcements of couples across the age spectrum and not just 28 year-olds. As a 53 year-old single man who has never been married, I wake up every Sunday, reach for my phone and read the wedding announcements in hopes that I'll see someone my age (or older) getting married. For some reason these announcements give me a glimmer of hope that it's not over for me, even though I'm pretty sure it's over. But either way it's nice to see people finding happiness later in life.
7
While we are at the task of updating your wedding pages, would you please, please, please stop the sexist wording about the bride keeping her own name? In an era of diverse decisions by new couples on this matter, the less patriarchal way of saying this would be to write that the bride and groom will retain their own last names after marriage.
7
Step one, the Times amidst prosperity announced austerity by firing editors. These were largely, but not only, editors responsible for displaying high quality comments to the Times by readers. The product of comments encouraged readership and interest in the paper by commenters who worked well for no pay. Those products are gone, not to return. Compare the sensibilities and articulateness of those comments to any other daily newspaper in the world.
Step two, the Times normalized kid-glove coverage of the president, withholding negative criticism of Trump for negative White House matters, as if the Times were avoiding litigation.
Third step the Times took down its universal offer for email forwarding of articles, and why? Because the paper charged for articles, it did not want to supply articles gratis to nonpaying persons. Never mind that gratis articles splendidly advertise. The Times' judgment lacks everything but bean-counting in determining that on balance that awesome advertising was an expensive giveaway.
Step two, the Times normalized kid-glove coverage of the president, withholding negative criticism of Trump for negative White House matters, as if the Times were avoiding litigation.
Third step the Times took down its universal offer for email forwarding of articles, and why? Because the paper charged for articles, it did not want to supply articles gratis to nonpaying persons. Never mind that gratis articles splendidly advertise. The Times' judgment lacks everything but bean-counting in determining that on balance that awesome advertising was an expensive giveaway.
1
Another low point was the "rough draft" articles --that may not be the exact title of the category--but during the primary, we saw many trial balloon articles that never made it to the actual paper. The drafts were just enough to spread innuendo and untruths.
"Factors, in no particular order, include life achievements, job information, how-we-met stories, ages of couple, college backgrounds or not, parents’ information and other interesting anecdotes." Can's you see that those factors are classist? The central question not answered is "Who is making the selections?" And the answer will be, a committee made up of folks with Ivy League degrees, with significant levels of dominant culture accomplishment, and families that value upper crust culture.
6
Dear Times, do I have a better chance of having my wedding covered if my betrothed is 14, or 101? Please advise quickly, as I must pick my true love soon.
2
About the wedding pages: this is self-selecting, on the part of the couples. Unfortunately, in this climate, they may feel embarrassed at less than stellar " credentials ". Please, do not. I would personally rather read about
A real person than another snobby drone. But, that's just me.
Please, tell YOUR story, and be proud. I'd love to hear all about it.
A real person than another snobby drone. But, that's just me.
Please, tell YOUR story, and be proud. I'd love to hear all about it.
11
What are the salient differences between the "Reader's Center" and the former "Public Editor?"
6
The Public Editor was tasked with addressing issues of journalistic integrity.
The Reader Center is trying to convince readers of the gravitas of the content of the Style section, and to serve as a forum for Dean Baquet to spin firing half of the copy editing staff, and, after an internal Hunger Games competition, rehiring the other half to do other work.
Is that a good start for you, Henry?
The Reader Center is trying to convince readers of the gravitas of the content of the Style section, and to serve as a forum for Dean Baquet to spin firing half of the copy editing staff, and, after an internal Hunger Games competition, rehiring the other half to do other work.
Is that a good start for you, Henry?
6
You may want to rethink the copy editor changes. The article on the doctor shooting in the Bronx has had an error in the 4th paragraph for who knows how long. Will anyone ever fix it? Does it matter anymore?
11
If there was a publicly funded campaign (Indiegogo, &c.) to raise funds to pay for the salary of the Public Editor, would that position be reinstated?
4
A recent retraction by the NYT:
"A White House Memo article on Monday about President Trump’s deflections and denials about Russia referred incorrectly to the source of an intelligence assessment that said Russia orchestrated hacking attacks during last year’s presidential election. The assessment was made by four intelligence agencies — the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency. The assessment was not approved by all 17 organizations in the American intelligence community."
Why in the world did it take so long for the NYT to retract this obvious error in reporting?? I knew it was false as soon as it was uttered by Hillary Clinton way back when she first said it during a televised debate with Donald Trump. I knew it was false because I was an employee at one of those 17 intelligence agencies. Anyone could have confirmed that it was a false statement if they reviewed the authorizations for the various intelligence agencies.
"A White House Memo article on Monday about President Trump’s deflections and denials about Russia referred incorrectly to the source of an intelligence assessment that said Russia orchestrated hacking attacks during last year’s presidential election. The assessment was made by four intelligence agencies — the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency. The assessment was not approved by all 17 organizations in the American intelligence community."
Why in the world did it take so long for the NYT to retract this obvious error in reporting?? I knew it was false as soon as it was uttered by Hillary Clinton way back when she first said it during a televised debate with Donald Trump. I knew it was false because I was an employee at one of those 17 intelligence agencies. Anyone could have confirmed that it was a false statement if they reviewed the authorizations for the various intelligence agencies.
4
Dear Mr. Baquet,
Please do not cut your staff! Now more than ever we need your high-quality journalism. I hope you will keep all your fine editors and continue to maintain the integrity of the Times so it remains a beacon of light in these dark times.
Please do not cut your staff! Now more than ever we need your high-quality journalism. I hope you will keep all your fine editors and continue to maintain the integrity of the Times so it remains a beacon of light in these dark times.
12
To Mr. Baquet,
I think we need more editors. You need to maintain your excellent command of the language, you need to maintain your reputation as the paper of record, you need to maintain your authority as one of the most credible and authoritative voices against this present administration.
Thanks for your time.
I think we need more editors. You need to maintain your excellent command of the language, you need to maintain your reputation as the paper of record, you need to maintain your authority as one of the most credible and authoritative voices against this present administration.
Thanks for your time.
12
The whole idea of a wedding page seems to be an archaic throwback to the marriage reporting of the robberbarons whose mansions once lined 5th Avenue. That era is long gone as these wedding pages should be also. They are not relevant, or important and certainly have no place in a valued news source as the NYT.
15
You know what, sometimes they're just fun to read. Stories about happy things are also worth reading. There's plenty of serious material, so if we can also read the wedding columns, or the sports pages, or a tv review, fine. If you don't want to read them, skip them, just as I skip most of the real estate stories.
3
Oh wait. As a person who starts with the wedding stories, and I know I am not alone, I want to defend the column. In an era of endlessly depressing world events: fifteen years of continuous American war, environmental devastation, pollution that should not be allowed to happen (Strangers in Their Own Land), allegations of fake news, reports of Presidential tweets, IT IS MOST ASSUREDLY GLORIOUS TO READ LOVE STORIES.
2
I subscribed to support what Trump called "The failing New York Times". Is it true then?
2
March for Editors this Saturday. Full coverage in the Washington Post.
7
This problem goes much deeper than weddings. The upper-class tilt of the Times is stark in practically every facet of its reporting, from the facile, WaPo-esque obsession with Twitter to the exclusion of labor from all conversation to the recipes page. Articles about major changes in the workforce make mention of how shareholders feel, but the people hit hardest are usually caricatured, if they make an appearance at all.
And then there's the Times's ill-disguised advertising ploys like "the Daily 360", a $14mn giveaway of prime digital real estate to Samsung.
I know many Times readers aren't Bernie fans, but this is exactly what we mean when we're talking about the corporate media. These organizations are not acting in the public interest, they are acting in the interests of their shareholders ("audiences", in Mr. Baquet's nomenclature).
The firing of copy editors by an organization which was very publicly refuted by James Comey last month, which published breathless, utterly false, and anonymously-sourced stories about "the Clinton emails!" should tell us all we need to know. The Times is right in its criticism of this so-called President, but that doesn't make him entirely wrong in his criticism of the so-called "free press".
And then there's the Times's ill-disguised advertising ploys like "the Daily 360", a $14mn giveaway of prime digital real estate to Samsung.
I know many Times readers aren't Bernie fans, but this is exactly what we mean when we're talking about the corporate media. These organizations are not acting in the public interest, they are acting in the interests of their shareholders ("audiences", in Mr. Baquet's nomenclature).
The firing of copy editors by an organization which was very publicly refuted by James Comey last month, which published breathless, utterly false, and anonymously-sourced stories about "the Clinton emails!" should tell us all we need to know. The Times is right in its criticism of this so-called President, but that doesn't make him entirely wrong in his criticism of the so-called "free press".
16
I agree completely. Thank you.
2
Dear Mr. Baquet,
With the Fourth Estate under fire from the Whitehouse, how could you possibly think of letting copy editors go. Reducing by half is ludicrous in these perilous times. And shrinking the editor staffing and piling more work on editors is not the way to create quality journalism or put out a quality paper. The Times will suffer and your status as one of the best newspapers in the world will be tainted.
Add to this the ammunition you are giving Trump and I think your business thinking is perilous. This is tantamount to throwing in the towel and closing the paper, unthinkable. You are the last bastion of free thinking and honest journalism. Do you want to become another Wall Street Journal?
I am a businessman as well as an artist and I think your move here is wrongheaded and dangerous. Please scale back your planned cuts or even retain all the valuable editors you have. It makes no sense to thin out your defenses when the truth is under attack.
Yours,
Mark Vincent LaPolla
With the Fourth Estate under fire from the Whitehouse, how could you possibly think of letting copy editors go. Reducing by half is ludicrous in these perilous times. And shrinking the editor staffing and piling more work on editors is not the way to create quality journalism or put out a quality paper. The Times will suffer and your status as one of the best newspapers in the world will be tainted.
Add to this the ammunition you are giving Trump and I think your business thinking is perilous. This is tantamount to throwing in the towel and closing the paper, unthinkable. You are the last bastion of free thinking and honest journalism. Do you want to become another Wall Street Journal?
I am a businessman as well as an artist and I think your move here is wrongheaded and dangerous. Please scale back your planned cuts or even retain all the valuable editors you have. It makes no sense to thin out your defenses when the truth is under attack.
Yours,
Mark Vincent LaPolla
11
While understanding the significant financial pressures on journalism/new organizations, there is concern about cutting editing staff, particularly as there seem to be more younger reporters who seem to lack the knowledge, experience and history of more seasoned reporters. Too many articles seem to be written as features instead of news. And too many articles lack core research or context.
A few examples...
The article "Doctors Work...to Save Victims of Hospital Rampage" was confusing. Was it a news article or a feature? The article was not clear about the victims and their injuries - that should have been key. Why was there mention of a Winnie the Pooh balloon or a neon sign in the cafeteria?
Multiple articles about Barry Diller's pier project mention Diana Taylor the chair of the Hudson River Park Trust - but do not identify that she is the long-time companion of Mayor Bloomberg who pushed the Diller project.
Articles about Bloomberg's Willets Point project continually mention the new apartments and shopping - but without any mention of contextual mass transit (7 is overcrowded) and traffic issues and also that there is already a mall just 5-10 minutes away.
A few examples...
The article "Doctors Work...to Save Victims of Hospital Rampage" was confusing. Was it a news article or a feature? The article was not clear about the victims and their injuries - that should have been key. Why was there mention of a Winnie the Pooh balloon or a neon sign in the cafeteria?
Multiple articles about Barry Diller's pier project mention Diana Taylor the chair of the Hudson River Park Trust - but do not identify that she is the long-time companion of Mayor Bloomberg who pushed the Diller project.
Articles about Bloomberg's Willets Point project continually mention the new apartments and shopping - but without any mention of contextual mass transit (7 is overcrowded) and traffic issues and also that there is already a mall just 5-10 minutes away.
8
They also rarely, if ever, mention a significant other stumbling block in Willets Point: The Whitestone Expressway is an Interstate Highway (I-678), which means you can't just tamper with it, as Bloomberg's plans do, without Federal assent. Good luck with that.
1
More questions for you, Dean:
1) was the article at https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/business/media/morning-joe-trump-t... copyedited and, if so, by whom? Where is the conclusion?
2) why was your request article posted to the home page on the Friday before the July 4 weekend?
3) why was it removed from that location the next day? Why do I and others who want to comment have to search for it?
4) as of this writing, there are just 73 comments. Is this even close to an average response? Knowing how engaged Times readers generally are, I suspect not.
1) was the article at https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/business/media/morning-joe-trump-t... copyedited and, if so, by whom? Where is the conclusion?
2) why was your request article posted to the home page on the Friday before the July 4 weekend?
3) why was it removed from that location the next day? Why do I and others who want to comment have to search for it?
4) as of this writing, there are just 73 comments. Is this even close to an average response? Knowing how engaged Times readers generally are, I suspect not.
5
Adding another question: If uppermost Times management thinks a Reader Center is so important, why is there still no place for it in the Site Map?
2
Well, most of the well-thought comments below are not on the subject of marriage, but on editorial practices. NYT has an excellent record of reporting new without bias, despite its Editorial Board and most of the Opinion Writers being a nest of cryptosocialists, worshiping the Golden Calf, and badmouthing the 2nd amendment.
Apart from the aforementioned deficiency, keep up good work!
Apart from the aforementioned deficiency, keep up good work!
There are about 50 copy editors losing there jobs. Here is a mathematical perspective: For the $30 million the Times shelled out for The Wirecutter/Sweet Home less than a year ago, assuming average salary+benefits of $200,000/year per copy editor, the Times could have funded ALL of those jobs for THREE years.
Why do I think the Times chose the wrong investment?
Why do I think the Times chose the wrong investment?
10
Copy editors make $200k??
1
Don't forget the colossal sum they spent, and then couldn't recoup, on the Boston Globe.
2
@Cunegonde, I don't know what the copy editors make, but if the Times is paying for family health insurance coverage, that could easily amount to $30K, and things like (maybe?) 401K match. Remember, I was costing out salary PLUS benefits.
1
I subscribed to the NY Times recently in order to support quality journalism. I see now my money, and the uptick in subscriptions you've received since the election, is being diverted to the very top and taken away from the editorial pool. I will be stopping my subscription and finding an outlet that cares about quality journalism.
3
This has been on the "front page" of mobile for at least 12 hours. Just when will Mr. Baquet answer reader questions?
Perhaps an editor would have caught that glaring omission prior to publication ...
Perhaps an editor would have caught that glaring omission prior to publication ...
5
You're blaming readers? What a joke! If you wanted to feature poor and working class couples, you'd find them. Same for the What We Do On Sundays business. Not everyone goes to brunch on Sunday. Figure it out, NYTimes.
11
Amen! So many of the Sunday Routiners are one percenters. I was so grateful to read about the rickshaw driver a couple weeks ago. His Sunday was so much more interesting than almost every other profilee's. And do you notice how few of the profilees go to church on Sunday? The rickshaw driver and Stephen Colbert's band leader Jon Batiste are the only two, in the last year or so!
4
Is all this nonsense about wedding announcements tongue-in-cheek? That the affluent still publish them is funny enough in 2017. That the Times is being attacked for a dearth of postings by blue-collar couples is out-right ludicrous.
How do I submit an announcement for the Wedding pages?
2
canceled my full subscription months back becouse the entire paper seemed an extension of the editorial pages. now sensational headlines are contrary to the body of stories too and the editorial slant stronger than ever. credibility is an issue.
4
Back in his pre-Times days, some of David Brooks' best-known writings were about the Times wedding page. "Unabashed elitist, secretive, and totally honest, the 'mergers and acquisitions page' (as some of its devotees call it) has always provided an accurate look at at least a chunk of the American ruling class. And over the years it has reflected the changing ingredients of elite status," he wrote in Bobos in Paradise. "The Times emaphasizes four things about a person — college degrees, graduate degrees, career path, and parents' profession — for these are the markers of upscale Americans today."
9
My brother, in his 41st year as a copy editor at the Baltimore Sun, sent me this article by Michael Cieply, who spent 12 years at the Times as a correspondent and editor.
http://deadline.com/2016/11/shocked-by-trump-new-york-times-finds-time-f...
What he writes about upper level editors setting "the narrative" and tasking reporters to find stories that bolster said narrative offers exactly why the political coverage has been abysmal and got everything so wrong. A reminder, Carolyn Ryan, who oversaw that appalling political coverage was rewarded with a promotion onto the masthead. Four years prior, Richard Stevenson, who gave Arthur Brisbane an answer that confirms the upper editorial narrative tail that wags the dog of coverage about a steadfast refusal to cover Ron Paul, was similarly, egregiously rewarded with the Editorship of the International Herald Tribune after a similarly poor 2012 election cycle.
http://deadline.com/2016/11/shocked-by-trump-new-york-times-finds-time-f...
What he writes about upper level editors setting "the narrative" and tasking reporters to find stories that bolster said narrative offers exactly why the political coverage has been abysmal and got everything so wrong. A reminder, Carolyn Ryan, who oversaw that appalling political coverage was rewarded with a promotion onto the masthead. Four years prior, Richard Stevenson, who gave Arthur Brisbane an answer that confirms the upper editorial narrative tail that wags the dog of coverage about a steadfast refusal to cover Ron Paul, was similarly, egregiously rewarded with the Editorship of the International Herald Tribune after a similarly poor 2012 election cycle.
5
At a time when the press is under constant attack in this country, the New York Times should be battening down the hatches and shoring up, not letting copy editors go. This country is relying on real news and the news needs its editors for accuracy to support the reported and columnists. A removal of these professionals is short sighted and dangerous.
12
Dear Mr. Bacquet,
As a translator and editor who teaches in a foreign country, I have countless times explained to my students that all serious writers work with editors, and that this interaction is not mainly about grammar. A view from the outside is one of the best gifts a writer can receive: editors discover underlying themes, question logic and facts, encourage writers to explore regions they hadn't realized they were approaching. Till now, the New York Times has excelled in the quality of its writing. I don't understand why the company is willing to put style and clarity at risk. I don't believe you will save much, as editors are notoriously underpaid. You will, however, lose readers.
As a translator and editor who teaches in a foreign country, I have countless times explained to my students that all serious writers work with editors, and that this interaction is not mainly about grammar. A view from the outside is one of the best gifts a writer can receive: editors discover underlying themes, question logic and facts, encourage writers to explore regions they hadn't realized they were approaching. Till now, the New York Times has excelled in the quality of its writing. I don't understand why the company is willing to put style and clarity at risk. I don't believe you will save much, as editors are notoriously underpaid. You will, however, lose readers.
5
I'm struck by the racism/exclusionism in your article on why the wedding section seems so upper crust. I think you are "blaming the victim" by requiring that participants conform to a set of criteria that is inherently exclusive. It sounds a bit like whining "...but all we asked for is people who are accomplished!" I think the times needs to dig deeper to ask why the couples that are displayed in its pages are so "upper crust." And through a process, to come up with a way to bring in the interest and engagement of the wide swath of people who we are so fortunate to have as the United States of America.
6
Really, diversity in the "Style" section? When was the last time you covered a VFW benefit instead of the beautiful people dining at a $5,000/plate dinner at the Met? I love the Style section but let's be honest--it is fantasy land for NYTimes readers who care more about Anna Wintour than Ma Kettle!
8
Selection is subjective. We were excluded. It was a New Year's Day 1.1.11 wedding. Submitted a photo and everything. My husband owns a little trucking company. Can't get more blue collar than that. But didn't make th cut, sadly.
10
"Factors, in no particular order, include life achievements, job information, how-we-met stories, ages of couple, college backgrounds or not, parents’ information and other interesting anecdotes." These factors will tend toward dominant culture "upper crust" selections, especially if those making the selection themselves have Ivy League degrees, and come from families with income and dominant culture accomplishments. This is how classist white supremacy celebrates and perpetuates itself.
7
This topic really necessitated an "article?" Good Lord, who cares about wedding announcements outside of the bride, groom and their respective families?
5
Why is the Reader Center so difficult to find? Why isn't it included on the site map? Is it because you no longer care about your readers, just as you no longer care about copy editors? Hey, thanks for that brilliant think piece on the ten best hot dogs!
23
Yes! How about firing whoever pitched the hot dog list and keep the copy editors!
4
Why does the Reader Center, like the last incarnation of the Public Editor, go days between checking and moderating comments? THIS is supposed to represent an increased interaction with readers? As the kids say, "epic fail."
5
Dear Mr. Baquet,
The fatal flaw, I believe, in the move to eliminate the stand-alone copy desk and replace it with a system where editors become jacks and jills-of-all trades ignores the reality that each step of the editing process demands a particular skill set. Good writing requires distance, either temporal (putting it aside for a bit) or, better yet, shifting a story to a fresh pair of eyes with a firm demand of linguistics and the arcane demands of style that a good copy editor brings.
I spent two decades writing for newspapers and 15 more teaching at The Poynter Institute, a school for professional journalists. These experiences convinced me that what makes a great story editor does not necessarily translate into the kind of copy editing skills required for accurate, well-written stories. Story editors help reporters conceive and execute good journalism, but more times than writers wish to admit it was copy editors who saved us and our publications from humiliating and risky mistakes and damage to institutional credibility. I fear that the new system may irrevocably harm the Times' reputation and long-term viability. I implore you to reconsider your decision. Respectfully yours, Chip Scanlan
The fatal flaw, I believe, in the move to eliminate the stand-alone copy desk and replace it with a system where editors become jacks and jills-of-all trades ignores the reality that each step of the editing process demands a particular skill set. Good writing requires distance, either temporal (putting it aside for a bit) or, better yet, shifting a story to a fresh pair of eyes with a firm demand of linguistics and the arcane demands of style that a good copy editor brings.
I spent two decades writing for newspapers and 15 more teaching at The Poynter Institute, a school for professional journalists. These experiences convinced me that what makes a great story editor does not necessarily translate into the kind of copy editing skills required for accurate, well-written stories. Story editors help reporters conceive and execute good journalism, but more times than writers wish to admit it was copy editors who saved us and our publications from humiliating and risky mistakes and damage to institutional credibility. I fear that the new system may irrevocably harm the Times' reputation and long-term viability. I implore you to reconsider your decision. Respectfully yours, Chip Scanlan
33
As a freelance journalist who has written for The Times and other publications, I would like to make a comment about the NYT copy editors. In my experience as a writer, one thing that placed The Times ahead of other publications: the depth of the editing process, and the copy editors were part of that. Having these editors as a backstop and separate from my editors were essential in helping to ensure a great final edit right up till deadline. I can’t say that every experience I’ve had with the copy editors was perfect, but I will say this: the traditional editing process at The Times, with copy editors included, is an asset that I’ve not yet seen any other publication match.
- Thomas J. Fitzgerald
http://www.thomasjfitzgerald.com
- Thomas J. Fitzgerald
http://www.thomasjfitzgerald.com
36
In October, 2014, Margaret Sullivan queried Baquet about use of annymous sourcing. "Mr. Baquet said that, until that point, he had not spoken forcefully to department heads about the practice but that he intended to do so at their next meeting. He said that the use of confidential sources is sometimes necessary and important. 'They’re never going to go away,' he said, 'but we need to limit it more than we do.' I couldn’t agree more and will continue to monitor their use and push for such limits."
My question to Baquet, submitted via e-mail as instructed is "Since use of anonymously sourced articles has markedly increased since the time of that quote, did you ever have that meeting with department heads? Also, why have you failed to "limit it more than we do?"
My question to Baquet, submitted via e-mail as instructed is "Since use of anonymously sourced articles has markedly increased since the time of that quote, did you ever have that meeting with department heads? Also, why have you failed to "limit it more than we do?"
10
The internet has brought us a multitude of news sources. The days of the New York Times being the "paper of record" are long gone. Most of us, if we want a balanced view of what's going on in the world, read a wide span of news sources, left leaning, right leaning and a few in between. You put it all together and then you read between the lines to figure out the "truth." Newspapers have been a failing business for years now and cuts by management like this, while unfortunate, are certainly not news. I'm sorry these copy editors may lose their jobs, but there's more media out there than ever before to find employment with so I would just stop whining and start looking. Everyone will land on their feet.
You are incorrect; The NYT is still considered the standard-bearer in newspaper journalism. I'm a communications professional and can say this with confidence. There is still a bar set by the paper's writing and the professinalism of its staff. Those of us who get our news from a wide variety of sources are able to appreciate the quality and veracity of that content because, whether we realize it or not, we expect and adhere to standards created and maintained by people with expertise - like those who work at the NYT (and several other quality papers). Information is like everything else: quantity does not equalte to quality. Additionally, part of the problem in any labor struggle is the attitude that "everyone will land on thier feet." This kind of thinking is usually espoused by people who are firmly on their feet.
5
Some of us don't have unlimited time and funds to go looking all over the Internet for the news. We still rely on having a trustworthy source. Unfortunately, the Times is slipping as that source.
4
I recognize that it is difficult to run a business selling a product that most people get for free. Please understand that those of us who subscribe do so because we value high quality in reporting and writing. Other things, such as 3D videos, could be cut without compromising the quality of the primary product.
37
Those 3D videos aren't content, they're ads. The Times is paid handsomely to "showcase" that technology. The fact is that nobody is really itching for 3D stuff or VR, so where else to go but the New York Times to try to reshape the conversation-- from the top down, as always.
1
When I started working and commuting from Queens to NYC in June 1959, the NYT was 5c and I learned how to fold it and read it on the "F" train. Prior to that our family purchased the Sunday edition to read at home.
Many business modes are in upheaval today and income/costs are imbalanced, sometimes resulting in what appears to be necessary expense cuts. Labor is one of the easiest to cut.
Mr. Baquet, how do you juggle the importance of a century and a half of being the leader with the upmost financial pressure from the gains by many other forms of news organizations and their free distribution on the internet?
Income from Retailers are gone with the Horse & Buggy of the past, and retail advertising will come around when coal mining is a growth industry. Yes, digital will be a very important part of your income base as it should be now and in the future. That area needs improvement too.
But, as electronic readers were to eliminate book stores, digital will not eliminate newspapers in the short term future. I'm a dinosaur, I want to read my newspaper, print format and digital too.
To keep your print subscribers you MUST deliver a quality product, anything less is a negative blotch on the storied NYT.
Now more than ever we need "All the News That's Fit to Print"; that was affixed to the top left of page no. 1 in 1959.
Keep your treasure intact.
Many business modes are in upheaval today and income/costs are imbalanced, sometimes resulting in what appears to be necessary expense cuts. Labor is one of the easiest to cut.
Mr. Baquet, how do you juggle the importance of a century and a half of being the leader with the upmost financial pressure from the gains by many other forms of news organizations and their free distribution on the internet?
Income from Retailers are gone with the Horse & Buggy of the past, and retail advertising will come around when coal mining is a growth industry. Yes, digital will be a very important part of your income base as it should be now and in the future. That area needs improvement too.
But, as electronic readers were to eliminate book stores, digital will not eliminate newspapers in the short term future. I'm a dinosaur, I want to read my newspaper, print format and digital too.
To keep your print subscribers you MUST deliver a quality product, anything less is a negative blotch on the storied NYT.
Now more than ever we need "All the News That's Fit to Print"; that was affixed to the top left of page no. 1 in 1959.
Keep your treasure intact.
19
Printed material, incl. books, magazines, and newspapers, is a thing of the past. Accept, use, and enjoy new technologies.
PaulN, age 69 (in 19 days)
PaulN, age 69 (in 19 days)
2
"Upmost financial pressure?"
As a reminder, less than a year ago, the Times spent an astonishing $30 million for two internet recommendation services, the Wirecutter and Sweet Home. That outlay could have saved a LOT of jobs, and quality control.
As a reminder, less than a year ago, the Times spent an astonishing $30 million for two internet recommendation services, the Wirecutter and Sweet Home. That outlay could have saved a LOT of jobs, and quality control.
3
Please keep your editors. They play a vital role. Times like this, accuracy is critical.
32
If the elimination of the copy desk decreases the perception of quality and integrity, the Times will lose in the end. The NY Times and the Washington Post are national and international examples of integrity in journalism. While not perfect, as a reader, I have been drawn to the high standards set by the Times. This includes fact checking and making sure that there are a minimum of spelling and grammar errors.
As someone who enjoys writing, I know how difficult it is to catch all errors.
Perhaps if Dean Baquet could explain how the Times plans to ensure quality, it would reassure readers.
As someone who enjoys writing, I know how difficult it is to catch all errors.
Perhaps if Dean Baquet could explain how the Times plans to ensure quality, it would reassure readers.
17
I subscribe to the NYT because I have free access to all the blogs (that aren't copy edited) I like and I'm looking for higher standards at the Times. Increasingly, the NYT is becoming more like a left wing blog. The NYT appears to increasingly rely on clicks and, as a result, places the more polarizing opinions at the absolute top of the page. I'm sure it's a great way to drive traffic, but it pushes me (and perhaps others) ever closer to canceling my subscription. I'm not sure that the comments section adds much to the overall experience of the Times. People have their opinions and rarely change based on the thoughts of other anonymous commenters. That said, the comments sections does drive traffic at the expense of lowering the overall discourse. It's becoming more and more difficult to find an article that simply provides an account of an event. There's always a pretty clear opinion that the Times needs to push. The entire experience of the paper is becoming more like that of a blog, including dispensing with copy editors. If the paper continues to morph its way into just another left wing blog, I'll cancel my subscription.
8
Bring back the Public Editor, stop stinting on international coverage, drop the neoliberal and biased political stance, and step back from the fair and balanced thing (stop bringing in climate change denier columnists, for example).
26
Mr. Banquet:
You canned the public editor & now are abolishing many copy editor positions. Your decisions are linked, a drive, in my opinion, toward journalistic mediocrity. With pride I used to defend The New York Times for being such a robust learning organization, such a journalistic bulwark of truth, that it hired a trove of fact checkers and even paid people to criticize it. So now what distinguishes The Times from the common run of the mill newspaper? Please don't tell me it the Style section! P.S. Note: a copy editor would have instantly caught the misspelling of your name, Mr. Baquet!
You canned the public editor & now are abolishing many copy editor positions. Your decisions are linked, a drive, in my opinion, toward journalistic mediocrity. With pride I used to defend The New York Times for being such a robust learning organization, such a journalistic bulwark of truth, that it hired a trove of fact checkers and even paid people to criticize it. So now what distinguishes The Times from the common run of the mill newspaper? Please don't tell me it the Style section! P.S. Note: a copy editor would have instantly caught the misspelling of your name, Mr. Baquet!
13
Fair or not, when I notice a typo, misspelling or convention error in any medium, I lose just a little bit of trust in the source. If a NYT article has a typo, suddenly it seems just a little more possible that the article (or paper as a whole) also has factual errors. I love The New York Times and am constantly impressed with the quality of news coverage and superb reporting. But while I can identify a typo and make the correction for myself -- I can't identify reporting errors. I must trust that its reporting is accurate. Please do not allow that trust to erode by thinking some errors are acceptable. (Also, as others noted, copy editors do much more than find and fix the corrections I'm discussing.) Finally, NYT has been a great reality check and source of information in these Trump times. I would hope any personnel decisions show proper (read tremendous ) respect for the people who got you this far. (Please forgive any typos; but I'll deal with any loss of trust that results.)
23
As a world class news organisation, I'd expect to read world class copy. Now more than ever we need top notch, error free reporting. You should be adding more copy editors and journalist, not removing them.
18
Why aren't you listening to your own reporters, who think this is a terrible idea? Are journalistic standards a thing of the past?
NYT stock is on the rise. Why dilute the product?
NYT stock is on the rise. Why dilute the product?
21
Tl;dr: The best and brightest reporters and subject editors are almost always lousy copy editors.
Long version: I spent 10 years on the desk at various newspapers and I'll tell you this, the best, most prized subject editors and writers have no clue about keeping consistent style, and producing crisp, accurate copy.
Most people would be shocked to see the difference between the copy that goes to the copy desk in a big city newspaper, and what comes out the other end. It's practically alchemy at times, thanks to the people on the desk. And the New York Times copy desk was the gold standard.
What gives any newspaper its accuracy, its credibility, and ultimately its consistent voice is a disciplined - and invariably underappreciated and underpaid - group of real writers who craft everybody's copy into a format that readers expect and trust.
Long version: I spent 10 years on the desk at various newspapers and I'll tell you this, the best, most prized subject editors and writers have no clue about keeping consistent style, and producing crisp, accurate copy.
Most people would be shocked to see the difference between the copy that goes to the copy desk in a big city newspaper, and what comes out the other end. It's practically alchemy at times, thanks to the people on the desk. And the New York Times copy desk was the gold standard.
What gives any newspaper its accuracy, its credibility, and ultimately its consistent voice is a disciplined - and invariably underappreciated and underpaid - group of real writers who craft everybody's copy into a format that readers expect and trust.
78
I know people who have worked for the times for the past 40 yrs.
They have told me that mgt. was always bloated and wasteful.
If I understand it, these copy editors are union. Are you gonna eliminate the jobs of the bloated mgt. that manages these copy editors?
They have told me that mgt. was always bloated and wasteful.
If I understand it, these copy editors are union. Are you gonna eliminate the jobs of the bloated mgt. that manages these copy editors?
34
To be fair to NYTimes....look at my latest post where I laud them for their great history....Here I only scold them for their original sin, suffered by most large corporations...
Thank you Dean and thank you Arthur Jr....if you are listening...
Thank you Dean and thank you Arthur Jr....if you are listening...
When I was the editor-in-chief of a high school newspaper, I insisted that the first paragraph of every story tell the reader the who, what, where, when, and why of the events reported. In recent decades, I have had to dig through several paragraphs of newspaper stories before I find that information, and I cannot always be sure exactly which paragraph will have the majority of that information.
This sort of construction is always useful in my extensive newspaper clipping files on many different topics. The ability to print stories on 8.5 x 11" paper was a great boon for this purpose. However, if the who, what, where, when, and why are not on the first page when I review my files years later, I have to flip stapled pages to look for my circles and stars made on the day of original reading.
This differs greatly from my scientific paper file where that crucial information is included in the abstract on the first page.
This sort of construction is always useful in my extensive newspaper clipping files on many different topics. The ability to print stories on 8.5 x 11" paper was a great boon for this purpose. However, if the who, what, where, when, and why are not on the first page when I review my files years later, I have to flip stapled pages to look for my circles and stars made on the day of original reading.
This differs greatly from my scientific paper file where that crucial information is included in the abstract on the first page.
7
I was a '60's high school student engaged in journalism. The "Who, what, where, when and why" approach is just about obsolete in my opinion. So is the well-written headline, which by definition, is NOT a click-bait tease.
4
I have to disagree with most of the commenters. The NYT is an incredibly important vehicle for good journalism. We are drowning in a quagmire of cheap, low quality online options with little or no fact checking done. If the NYT has to remove a layer of editing in order to keep high quality writers, then by all means do it. I am lucky to have The Washington Post as my home town paper and I subscribe to both. But quite a few "local" newspapers are simply drivel churned out by McClatchy. The market for print journalism is eroding. I hope NYT can find a way (or an patron such as Bezos) to continue.
11
The stories that are attributed to "High quality writers" are the product of a collaboration between the writer and the editor. Both are needed to produce great journalism.
4
In light of the changes to the copy editing desk, how do you feel about the constant and increased amount of corrections appearing at the bottom of almost every NY Times article? My feeling is that it shows articles too quickly published without review and lowers the standard of journalism for which I sunscribe.
38
Umm. You mean "suBscribe", correct? This is why we need copy editors.
2
If you fire any of the copy editors, I will not renew my subscription.
23
I made the math. For your boycott to be successful, for every firing about a thousand subscriptions need to be canceled.
4
Paul, for the number of preventable errors that will make it into print, virtual or actual, the Times is likely to drop that many subscribers in a canter, eventually
1
This column is a smokescreen for management's attack on labor at the NYT. This is not a Q & A; it's the boss using his bully pulpit during a labor struggle to inoculate his organization and public opinion. Any regular reader of this paper knows that the editors are as responsible as the reporters for quality journalism. With the current volley of attacks from our leaders on "failing" and "fake news" media outlets, now hardly seems like the time to risk the Times' standards of excellence by eliminating some of the professionals who safeguard hem
48
Clearly, I could have used a copy editor for that comment. ; )
5
I suspect you are correct. This is just sharpenin up the blades of the guillotine.
Speaking of copy editing, please find the error in this sentence from a story just posted to the Times online about the Grenfell Tower fire:
"Hours earlier, Robert Black, the head of the management company that ran the 24-story building and oversaw a renovation that included the installation of flammable cladding, also resigned. The resignations occurred as new evidence emerged that the management company, which started the renovation in 2014, had chosen a less fire-resistant form of cladding to save nearly 300,000 pounds."
"Hours earlier, Robert Black, the head of the management company that ran the 24-story building and oversaw a renovation that included the installation of flammable cladding, also resigned. The resignations occurred as new evidence emerged that the management company, which started the renovation in 2014, had chosen a less fire-resistant form of cladding to save nearly 300,000 pounds."
18
I'm guessing that you mean that “and oversaw" should be “and who oversaw." It's no sport anymore finding these things. Perhaps I should volunteer to do this work for free, perhaps to vent harmlessly (or at least more harmlessly than usual) my didactic and passive aggressive tendencies?
Dean, I found some errors, but you also made an error: your "sentence" is actually two sentences.
1
I thought for a moment that I was reading a satiric piece in "The Onion." My eye catches a typo in nearly every online article I read currently, if you trim the copy editorial staff I fear for your standards. Please do not under any circumstances reduce proof reading and cop of The New York Times. If you do, Trump will have won, and The Times will truly become "fake news."
43
I am a digital subscriber. I subscribe to the NY Times because I want to READ accurate news from a reliable source. I have two concerns about layoffs in the copy editorial staff:
1. That the result will be less a accurate articles which also have many more spelling/grammatical errors which will further the ongoing decline in knowledge & literacy in the nation.
And
2. That the real motive of this action is to give more funds to the video content at the expense of written copy.
If either of these become the case, I will be terminating my subscription. There are many news outlets that offer video & poorly written copy that are free. I certainly don't need to pay for such content.
Robert Scroop
1. That the result will be less a accurate articles which also have many more spelling/grammatical errors which will further the ongoing decline in knowledge & literacy in the nation.
And
2. That the real motive of this action is to give more funds to the video content at the expense of written copy.
If either of these become the case, I will be terminating my subscription. There are many news outlets that offer video & poorly written copy that are free. I certainly don't need to pay for such content.
Robert Scroop
64
Amen. I have no desire to join the post-literate world.
6
Agree ...too much video and visuals, and the layout shoves them in readers' faces, when we are trying, trying to read the words, sentences, paragraphs and get meaning from what we read. My other comment is about this.
We're not children who need constant visual entertainment. Words lead to thought---we need that more than ever. In fact we're fighting for clear thought--for intelligent verbal oxygen as we drown in meaningless, manipulative visuals.
We're not children who need constant visual entertainment. Words lead to thought---we need that more than ever. In fact we're fighting for clear thought--for intelligent verbal oxygen as we drown in meaningless, manipulative visuals.
16
Their first step should be to hire editors who understand grammar and English. Your standards are embarrassingly low. I am not referring to arcane constructions like "past pluperfect subjunctives" (although an editor should understand this usage). Start with the basics such as matching nouns and verbs. The word none is singular not plural. Then, understand that a preposition takes the accusative case. Paying attention to just those two common errors would make your paper readable. Next lesson : content. That will take some doing.
22
I agree. There is great lamentation about fearing that standards will slip. This is the first time I have heard such reverernce for the written word in some time. OMG, I almost LOL'd.
Whether standards, such as they may be, will slip (further) is anyone's guess. Remember, when the nice corporation people start talking about reconfigurations and buyouts, they mean for you, not for them.
Whether standards, such as they may be, will slip (further) is anyone's guess. Remember, when the nice corporation people start talking about reconfigurations and buyouts, they mean for you, not for them.
1
Why give this Administration more reasons to accuse the NYT of being a failed news organization? Rather, we need complete accuracy in news reporting to counter the parade of bullies tweeting from the virtual bully pulpit @potus and friends.
15
Look at CNN---3 respected reporters, one from the Times, resigned or were fired for a disputed story---the layers of checking and editing CNN set up didn’t work as designed. The rw media is delighted with this!
Also, I disagree with Times copy editors saying “The Times must be more visual, more digitally focused”. No. The Times should be much LESS visual and MORE word centered—and be a role model of this for the world. Hold the line.
Don’t copy the web. The printed word is more important than visual images. Words are thought. Thought was never more needed than now.
Plus it is very irritating to read your paper with the visual distractions---more apt for a nursery school often. The big photos in the middle of articles constantly interfere with the words. The photos at the top of every page as you scroll up are annoying. The constant visuals are a pain in the neck. I often paste an article into Word with Paste Special to get rid of the visuals if I really want to read an article.
I am totally disgusted by the constant photos all over the paper of Trump’s snarling, hostile face.
Go back to former formats. Dump the big visual at the center for the front page and op ed page. Just list titles. They take up huge space. Put photos off to the side, as in the past. Don’t force them on us. Let us decide!
Also, I disagree with Times copy editors saying “The Times must be more visual, more digitally focused”. No. The Times should be much LESS visual and MORE word centered—and be a role model of this for the world. Hold the line.
Don’t copy the web. The printed word is more important than visual images. Words are thought. Thought was never more needed than now.
Plus it is very irritating to read your paper with the visual distractions---more apt for a nursery school often. The big photos in the middle of articles constantly interfere with the words. The photos at the top of every page as you scroll up are annoying. The constant visuals are a pain in the neck. I often paste an article into Word with Paste Special to get rid of the visuals if I really want to read an article.
I am totally disgusted by the constant photos all over the paper of Trump’s snarling, hostile face.
Go back to former formats. Dump the big visual at the center for the front page and op ed page. Just list titles. They take up huge space. Put photos off to the side, as in the past. Don’t force them on us. Let us decide!
47
The quality of the NYT is sliding. There was a time when the NYTs truly was the paper of record. Editorials stayed on editorial pages, not in news stories. The coverage of the election was a turning point, I don't think that the NYT will recover its reputation.
30
Dear Mr. Baquet,
The business of operating a journalistic enterprise has become more challenging every day, let alone, every year since the dot com boom (and bust) of the early pioneering days of the internet.
The challenges we ALL face today is the "tRumping Down" of what we hold dear and sacred as a nation and as it's members.
The inundation of sorting out real stories from fake stories must be the NYTime's biggest challenge and potential pitfall. When standards are lowered, their currency and value suffers. Your readers want and need the MEATY stories and content that probe the heights and depths of hope and despair people see, hear and experience.
What 45 and his appointees are attempting to do is: seize control of the ASSETS of government and of the people; squirrel away all that data and information governmental agencies provide for research and the public and hand it over to 1% or "the MOB with all the Money." They have better ideas of what to use that information for and to keep it for themselves. Fire those in government that won't march in lock step with the "New Order" and don't answer the phones, don't answer questions, just PUNCH hard and tweet hard to make a scene so that is what will be in the news. Defang and declaw federal agencies so that gerrymandered states are the top dogs/cats that decide everything to do with: air, water, land, taxes, laws, incarceration, medicine and social welfare. Just relinquish all your rights to the NRA and the "GOOD GUYS...?"
The business of operating a journalistic enterprise has become more challenging every day, let alone, every year since the dot com boom (and bust) of the early pioneering days of the internet.
The challenges we ALL face today is the "tRumping Down" of what we hold dear and sacred as a nation and as it's members.
The inundation of sorting out real stories from fake stories must be the NYTime's biggest challenge and potential pitfall. When standards are lowered, their currency and value suffers. Your readers want and need the MEATY stories and content that probe the heights and depths of hope and despair people see, hear and experience.
What 45 and his appointees are attempting to do is: seize control of the ASSETS of government and of the people; squirrel away all that data and information governmental agencies provide for research and the public and hand it over to 1% or "the MOB with all the Money." They have better ideas of what to use that information for and to keep it for themselves. Fire those in government that won't march in lock step with the "New Order" and don't answer the phones, don't answer questions, just PUNCH hard and tweet hard to make a scene so that is what will be in the news. Defang and declaw federal agencies so that gerrymandered states are the top dogs/cats that decide everything to do with: air, water, land, taxes, laws, incarceration, medicine and social welfare. Just relinquish all your rights to the NRA and the "GOOD GUYS...?"
8
Nothing like giving the enemy ammunition. This move gives new meaning to hubris.
13
Yeah-- as the copy editors ask--- why these layers of editing were created in the first place??
If there’s any era in our history when we need fact checkers and sharp eyes it’s the Trump era. We’re plagued with fake news, as standards lower. Each side charges the other with lies. See the stunning list of Trump's daily lies compiled in a Times recent article.
The US press is so proud of its 1st amendment protection from explicit govt censorship. That's only part of the story. But truth is also compromised by pressure to conform to the prevailing center of politics.
And that political center is more and more determined by big money influence on our elections and lawmaking---and on news media. Thus accuracy and fact checking for reader trust are more crucial than ever, as big money influence is magnified.
And cruciall also, we need additional columnists to give us a broader range of opinion, more needed now as the rw Gop dominates the 3 branches. The op ed page columnists now pull their punches and stay safely centrist, with some on the humanitarian anti Gop side. What are they afraid of – Fox News criticism?
The poison of junk news and thought in the internet era is compounded by the Trump era. Don’t copy the web, or TV cable news. Cut down on visuals and videos. Words mean thought. Thought saves us.
The Times will attract more readers and save its reputation if it is a role model for TV/Web news, instead of copying it.
If there’s any era in our history when we need fact checkers and sharp eyes it’s the Trump era. We’re plagued with fake news, as standards lower. Each side charges the other with lies. See the stunning list of Trump's daily lies compiled in a Times recent article.
The US press is so proud of its 1st amendment protection from explicit govt censorship. That's only part of the story. But truth is also compromised by pressure to conform to the prevailing center of politics.
And that political center is more and more determined by big money influence on our elections and lawmaking---and on news media. Thus accuracy and fact checking for reader trust are more crucial than ever, as big money influence is magnified.
And cruciall also, we need additional columnists to give us a broader range of opinion, more needed now as the rw Gop dominates the 3 branches. The op ed page columnists now pull their punches and stay safely centrist, with some on the humanitarian anti Gop side. What are they afraid of – Fox News criticism?
The poison of junk news and thought in the internet era is compounded by the Trump era. Don’t copy the web, or TV cable news. Cut down on visuals and videos. Words mean thought. Thought saves us.
The Times will attract more readers and save its reputation if it is a role model for TV/Web news, instead of copying it.
22
Am very happy to hear about the copy-ed cuts because it means my awkward grammar, long sentences, ad-hoc placement of commas where they don't, belong, and absent where they're absolutely required, will now become the chic norm. To top it all, Ed from NY will no longer dismiss my posts as the rants of a "typical conservative, heterosexual, white male", but instead belonging to an elite erudite ivy-league east-coaster, a label I've long lusted for but has to date escaped me sadly.
All because I post with minimal staff of three tabs atop my iPad soft keyboard, all scrambling to beat my typing with word suggestions only, many wrong ones, many that irritatingly jump inside my text when I ignore them with a space, and never any good suggestions for grammar.
Seriously, the letter from the copy-ed folks is alarming and sad. It almost feels like money wasn't the reason they were short-changed, but instead snowflake spoilt reporters insisting to get published instantly and unedited. Because they've all got degrees from big-name universities and also very delicate egos.
To them, I say get over it, and if you can't, get your 1500 character work published here instantly. You'll need verified status. No problem, say TMK approves.
And to editor Baquet I say, put that letter on top of your very, very, long rethink list. Thank you. Bah.
All because I post with minimal staff of three tabs atop my iPad soft keyboard, all scrambling to beat my typing with word suggestions only, many wrong ones, many that irritatingly jump inside my text when I ignore them with a space, and never any good suggestions for grammar.
Seriously, the letter from the copy-ed folks is alarming and sad. It almost feels like money wasn't the reason they were short-changed, but instead snowflake spoilt reporters insisting to get published instantly and unedited. Because they've all got degrees from big-name universities and also very delicate egos.
To them, I say get over it, and if you can't, get your 1500 character work published here instantly. You'll need verified status. No problem, say TMK approves.
And to editor Baquet I say, put that letter on top of your very, very, long rethink list. Thank you. Bah.
15
Have you considered reducing the multi-million dollar salaries of those at the top to keep some of the editors?
26
Subscriber to the NYT, WaPo, LA Times, Der Spiegel and The Economist.
I am seeing the same stories setting on the landing pages of NYT for days. Seeing more clickbait looking headlines, more stories that look like "rip and read (canned news wire content) and not premium content.
I am also not happy that the Public Editor went away.
We also need balance on the Opinion Page - NeoLiberal Centrists aplenty but no Progressive voices to be seen. Where is the liberal bias the NYT is accused of?
I am wanting better discovery of stories. My login should filter out stuff like celebrity nonsense and sports that I have no interest in and push forward content like Climate Change, Technology, International Business, Science and Government - not the same as politics- that I am interested in.
I generally like the direction the WaPo is moving. The Times not so much. Maybe Michael Bloomberg wants a paper.
I am seeing the same stories setting on the landing pages of NYT for days. Seeing more clickbait looking headlines, more stories that look like "rip and read (canned news wire content) and not premium content.
I am also not happy that the Public Editor went away.
We also need balance on the Opinion Page - NeoLiberal Centrists aplenty but no Progressive voices to be seen. Where is the liberal bias the NYT is accused of?
I am wanting better discovery of stories. My login should filter out stuff like celebrity nonsense and sports that I have no interest in and push forward content like Climate Change, Technology, International Business, Science and Government - not the same as politics- that I am interested in.
I generally like the direction the WaPo is moving. The Times not so much. Maybe Michael Bloomberg wants a paper.
27
Please be transparent about this. Your readers are among the smartest in the world -- please answer the following questions:
1) what are the reasons for this change?
2) what other options did you and the other decision-makers consider?
3) are you willing to engage with your readers to solicit alternative solutions?
Your readership is among the most educated in the world -- why not tap into this resource?
1) what are the reasons for this change?
2) what other options did you and the other decision-makers consider?
3) are you willing to engage with your readers to solicit alternative solutions?
Your readership is among the most educated in the world -- why not tap into this resource?
22
I understand that The Times has to make cuts since it is still a financially challenged organization at a time when we need it most. I would like to ask Mr. Baquet these questions:
1. Why must you cut copy editors, the people who are such important contributors to accuracy and the use of language? How can quality not suffer? Are there not any other areas of the company that could be trimmed? Why doesn't senior management forgo some of their compensation so some of these copy-editing jobs could be preserved?
2. Why must The Times stoop to such corporate-speak as "streamlining" and "restructuring" when we all know that these are cuts designed to reduce payroll costs? Times reporters don't tolerate this obfuscation from other corporations who undergo the same exercise. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to put this kind of spin on the situation when your organization is so disdainful of PR people and others who do the same?
1. Why must you cut copy editors, the people who are such important contributors to accuracy and the use of language? How can quality not suffer? Are there not any other areas of the company that could be trimmed? Why doesn't senior management forgo some of their compensation so some of these copy-editing jobs could be preserved?
2. Why must The Times stoop to such corporate-speak as "streamlining" and "restructuring" when we all know that these are cuts designed to reduce payroll costs? Times reporters don't tolerate this obfuscation from other corporations who undergo the same exercise. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to put this kind of spin on the situation when your organization is so disdainful of PR people and others who do the same?
24
Don't forget, it is well less than a year since a "financially challenged organization" managed to free up $30 million to buy shopping rating services The Wirecutter and Sweet Home. As a fellow chef, I find Sweet Home utterly useless, and not objective about things being rated. Do you agree about that?
4
Not surprising that this is published at 3 pm right before July 4th
There are already errors -- I frequently catch the "none were" error among others
Good copy editors are worth gold
Bring back the public editor...it was great
Remember you guys started that after one of your journalists was caught plagiarizing
Focus on why you were so blind to the election and so obviously anti-Bernie, not getting rid of editors
I still have PTSD from watching your election night lever go from Hillary (whom I despised but is at least sane) all the way to Trump. There were many times I considered canceling my subscription bc you were so blatantly favoring the Clintons and ignoring the real pain in the rest of the country.
Focus on that, not the editors who are just trying to preserve a high quality product.
There are already errors -- I frequently catch the "none were" error among others
Good copy editors are worth gold
Bring back the public editor...it was great
Remember you guys started that after one of your journalists was caught plagiarizing
Focus on why you were so blind to the election and so obviously anti-Bernie, not getting rid of editors
I still have PTSD from watching your election night lever go from Hillary (whom I despised but is at least sane) all the way to Trump. There were many times I considered canceling my subscription bc you were so blatantly favoring the Clintons and ignoring the real pain in the rest of the country.
Focus on that, not the editors who are just trying to preserve a high quality product.
23
I'm sorry Mr. Baquet, but your subscriptions are only going to be as good as your product. Even in this time of scoops and 24-7 reporting, the moment your product starts to become sloppy, you will not retain readers.
One of the joys of reading the NYT, in addition to the range of stories, was the quality of the writing. You start having typos, grammatical errors (see the number of worthless news pages these days) and worst of all, factual errors, and see how many people stick by your newspaper. Its very easy for us, your paying customers to switch to the Post, Guardian etc.
A lack of vision in the interest of the bottomline is all I see as an outside observer.
One of the joys of reading the NYT, in addition to the range of stories, was the quality of the writing. You start having typos, grammatical errors (see the number of worthless news pages these days) and worst of all, factual errors, and see how many people stick by your newspaper. Its very easy for us, your paying customers to switch to the Post, Guardian etc.
A lack of vision in the interest of the bottomline is all I see as an outside observer.
66
I have read the NYT religiously for many years but have begun reading other paper why? Because most of your articles are biased and opinionated and are editorials. Although I am not a Trump fan, he has done some good things. Never once have you acknowledged that- everything is critical of him.
Your articles about Israel are always biased as well. Anti Israel.
You're no longer reporting the news but editorializing almost everything with a bias
You're forcing me to read other papers and put less credence in what you report
Your articles about Israel are always biased as well. Anti Israel.
You're no longer reporting the news but editorializing almost everything with a bias
You're forcing me to read other papers and put less credence in what you report
11
It appears a significant number of subscribers read the Post and the Guardian, I do.
8
I subscribe to both, too, in reaction to their increasing quality and the Times's decreasing. Unfortunately, the Times still has the best overall/widespread coverage, so professionally I feel "stuck" here (at least for the time being).
1
I have read the Times for more than 50 years but have turned increasingly in the last year to the Washington Post, primarily for its superior reporting on the collapse into freebootery of our national government.
I have seen the Times reduce its news coverage internationally (except, of course, to report every hiccup from Israel), particularly across Africa, S. America, India and much of Asia.
I have also noticed the NPR-like desire to squelch accusations of elitism by bringing aboard right-wing commentators, and the Gannett-like inclination to simplify with pictures and colorful fluff.
The Times' last public editor was by far the weakest, but it's a shame that that forum has now been closed.
Now, you plan to cut back on copy editing.
My question is, WHY? Are your accountants so determined to squeeze every penny of profits from the paper as possible? Who argues these days for maintaining standards at the Times?
It's a real shame. You were for years an international pillar of straightforward reporting, but you are no longer. You've never managed, for instance, to find another Johnny Apple or Tom Wicker or Russell Baker, Drew Pearson, Scotty Reston...
I'm disappointed now, day after day, by what you manage to avoid.
I have seen the Times reduce its news coverage internationally (except, of course, to report every hiccup from Israel), particularly across Africa, S. America, India and much of Asia.
I have also noticed the NPR-like desire to squelch accusations of elitism by bringing aboard right-wing commentators, and the Gannett-like inclination to simplify with pictures and colorful fluff.
The Times' last public editor was by far the weakest, but it's a shame that that forum has now been closed.
Now, you plan to cut back on copy editing.
My question is, WHY? Are your accountants so determined to squeeze every penny of profits from the paper as possible? Who argues these days for maintaining standards at the Times?
It's a real shame. You were for years an international pillar of straightforward reporting, but you are no longer. You've never managed, for instance, to find another Johnny Apple or Tom Wicker or Russell Baker, Drew Pearson, Scotty Reston...
I'm disappointed now, day after day, by what you manage to avoid.
104
"Gannett-like." Now That's a burn!
4
I just subscribed to the Washington Post app. I find their current reporting to be like the Times use to be. Sadly profit is taking over solid reporting at the Times. If their national, international and political news was as detailed as their restaurant reviews we would all be better informed.
2
"Freebootery?" I love that. Thank you.
1
Thank you for communicating about this issue directly with readers, who may be confused by some social media posts which reflect more on parochial interests rather than need for change necessary to the New York Times' continued dedication to offering its readers the best and most complete editorial content of any news medium. Change can be difficult for some to grasp, and the Newspaper Guild would better serve both its members and readers by engaging in constructive dialogue rather than publicity stunts. As theologian Gabriel Vahanian wrote, ""You don't honor a tradition by endlessly repeating it. You honor it by marching forward in its name."
9
A letter I just sent to [email protected], which says that Mr. Baquet will take readers' questions (slightly edited from my email):
This is not a question for Mr. Baquet. This is an attempt to tell him how terribly misguided I think his recent decisions to get rid of the public editor and to remove the stand-alone copy desk for the Times. These actions, together, tell me that Mr. Baquet (and those people within the NYT corporation who may be pressuring him to take such actions) does not fully understand the importance of transparency, a public face, and accountability to the truth. With these two decisions, Mr. Baquet, you have fed the perception on the right that “MSM” is a fake and a tool for the left, and have fed a concern by other longtime readers, including myself, that the NYT exists within a privileged NYC bubble that does not need to deal with the "public."
Do I think you will respond to my statement? I strongly doubt it, because you didn’t respond when I wrote you earlier this year to express my concern over the Times’ hiring of conservative columnist Bret Stephens — not because he holds conservative views, but because his columns' disregard for facts and courtesy should be beneath your paper. Do I think it will matter when I cancel my online subscription with you? I doubt it. But I hope I am one of thousands who do the same, because maybe lost revenue will matter to you when lost credibility does not.
This is not a question for Mr. Baquet. This is an attempt to tell him how terribly misguided I think his recent decisions to get rid of the public editor and to remove the stand-alone copy desk for the Times. These actions, together, tell me that Mr. Baquet (and those people within the NYT corporation who may be pressuring him to take such actions) does not fully understand the importance of transparency, a public face, and accountability to the truth. With these two decisions, Mr. Baquet, you have fed the perception on the right that “MSM” is a fake and a tool for the left, and have fed a concern by other longtime readers, including myself, that the NYT exists within a privileged NYC bubble that does not need to deal with the "public."
Do I think you will respond to my statement? I strongly doubt it, because you didn’t respond when I wrote you earlier this year to express my concern over the Times’ hiring of conservative columnist Bret Stephens — not because he holds conservative views, but because his columns' disregard for facts and courtesy should be beneath your paper. Do I think it will matter when I cancel my online subscription with you? I doubt it. But I hope I am one of thousands who do the same, because maybe lost revenue will matter to you when lost credibility does not.
37
Wait, what? You must be joking. I'm a journalist and I have freelanced for the Times and I find this unbelievable. I second everything everyone has already said, but since you are specifically asking for questions, here's mine: why? How much money, exactly, is this saving? Who made the decision? And most importantly, how is the Times planning to fact-check (and copy-edit) its stories?
(Oh, and also: what is your plan to push back on Trump's "fake news" accusations if you are firing 50% of the copy editing staff? I'm serious: this move seems to give weight to his ridiculous assertions, and is particularly poorly timed given the desperate need for high quality investigative journalism. If critics tweet or write about this change, what is your defense?)
(Oh, and also: what is your plan to push back on Trump's "fake news" accusations if you are firing 50% of the copy editing staff? I'm serious: this move seems to give weight to his ridiculous assertions, and is particularly poorly timed given the desperate need for high quality investigative journalism. If critics tweet or write about this change, what is your defense?)
94
We subscribed to the New York Times because it had the best-quality articles, where reporters and editors clearly took care and had pride in their work. NYT articles struck me as so above the articles published elsewhere that I chose to subscribe to the best paper instead of a local one.
However, with the quality due to decline, I may cancel my subscription in favor of a local paper. With copy editing quality equalized among papers, it would make more sense for me to go to a paper with a focus closer to home.
However, with the quality due to decline, I may cancel my subscription in favor of a local paper. With copy editing quality equalized among papers, it would make more sense for me to go to a paper with a focus closer to home.
27
This single layer concept, where an editor will "handle all aspects of an article, including conception, sentence-level editing and fact checking" seems like a bad idea.
It seems like having a baseball umpire take tickets at the gate, then sing the national anthem, then sell beer in the stands and then run down to the field to make calls.
Can top management say with a high degree of certainty that there won't be a flood of mistakes?
Has any other organization used this structure effectively?
Also, how much are you paying your pundits? I imagine theres a lot of competition for the top name people, but where does that competition set the price?
It seems like having a baseball umpire take tickets at the gate, then sing the national anthem, then sell beer in the stands and then run down to the field to make calls.
Can top management say with a high degree of certainty that there won't be a flood of mistakes?
Has any other organization used this structure effectively?
Also, how much are you paying your pundits? I imagine theres a lot of competition for the top name people, but where does that competition set the price?
60
When I see the monthly fee for All Digital Access Subscriber on my credit card my thought is that I would have no problem paying twice as much. We need the NYT and Washington Post in peak form....it's the only way we're going to get through the next four years!
36
Yes, I was going to comment the same thing, about willing to pay more for my online subscription. Especially if it will ensure the quality maintenance of the online commenting section. I am not aware of a better commenting section. ----- If someone can suggest one, just in case this site goes "down hill" please let me know.
2
It's short-sighted to fire copy editors. They are the unsung heroes at institutions like the Times.
96
Stay focused on the news instead of trying to be all things to all people. If you have to cut there is plenty of fluff that could go.
37
Agreed David. I have known people who worked for the Times for 40 yrs.
Management fluff or fat as I call it has been institutionalized at the NY Times.(to be fair to them, in most large companies)..
My friends use to joke it was run as an inverted pyramid. You had layers of management at the top and at the bottom you had a few workers holding the whole thing up.
Management fluff or fat as I call it has been institutionalized at the NY Times.(to be fair to them, in most large companies)..
My friends use to joke it was run as an inverted pyramid. You had layers of management at the top and at the bottom you had a few workers holding the whole thing up.
17
A retort to my post.....although it is technically correct, let us not forget the miracle that the NY Times is.....truly the eight wonder of the world when it comes to journalism.
Re above...since 1896, they kinda got it right.......oh who are we kiddin, they are a national treasure. Just check the Pul. Prize hall of fame in their building....
However since 2000 the digital world has put then in a crisis. Yes they had crisis before in 1929 and 1975 to name a few. I was there working or knew people working there. They overcame these crisis in a relatively short period.
This current crisis is long term and still a threat.
Dean (and Arthur jr.), learn from history, learn what A. Ochs, Arthur Hays S. and others did....Here are the guidelines.
1-Use your expertise to see what is needed. You did it in 1896 when Adolph Ochs overhauled a failing paper. You did it in the 1970s with the suburban weeklies and themed sections and countless other times.
2-Do not forget the worker. Any displacement offer as generous severance package as you can, or other employment.
3-If you cut 100 union copy writer jobs...cut the equal mgt. jobs that supervise them.
4-There is always fat, especially re mgt.....Cutting 100 union copy editor jobs(if I am correct that they are union) may be needed as long as the corresponding mgt jobs go, but do not cut to the bone. That will hurt you.
Thank you Dean for your generous reader center here. Very Lincolnesque....
Re above...since 1896, they kinda got it right.......oh who are we kiddin, they are a national treasure. Just check the Pul. Prize hall of fame in their building....
However since 2000 the digital world has put then in a crisis. Yes they had crisis before in 1929 and 1975 to name a few. I was there working or knew people working there. They overcame these crisis in a relatively short period.
This current crisis is long term and still a threat.
Dean (and Arthur jr.), learn from history, learn what A. Ochs, Arthur Hays S. and others did....Here are the guidelines.
1-Use your expertise to see what is needed. You did it in 1896 when Adolph Ochs overhauled a failing paper. You did it in the 1970s with the suburban weeklies and themed sections and countless other times.
2-Do not forget the worker. Any displacement offer as generous severance package as you can, or other employment.
3-If you cut 100 union copy writer jobs...cut the equal mgt. jobs that supervise them.
4-There is always fat, especially re mgt.....Cutting 100 union copy editor jobs(if I am correct that they are union) may be needed as long as the corresponding mgt jobs go, but do not cut to the bone. That will hurt you.
Thank you Dean for your generous reader center here. Very Lincolnesque....
1
To see what happens when copy editors are let go, just read the Wall Street Journal. Since the Murdoch takeover, it has become rife with errors, typos, sentences which make no sense and paragraphs of one sentence which don't go anywhere. That is apart from misstatements and lack of fact checking.
Keep the pride in The Times! Keep your desk of nit pickers. You need them mightily!!!
Keep the pride in The Times! Keep your desk of nit pickers. You need them mightily!!!
112
True of the Times and increasing.
3
So what are the changes? I think loyal readers of the NYT have a right to know. Either it remains as objective as humanly possible in its reporting, and intelligently subjective in its commentary, or falls off the end of the table and as TV has mixed the two leaving the viewer to founder in a muddled media of fact and fiction.
11
Copy editing is important, especially in this day and age where social media has caused a general decline in spelling, grammar and language. I have been a NYT subscriber for over 30 years. In the old days it would be unheard of to see spelling or grammar mistakes in the NYT, but today it is common. There was actually a spelling mistake in a headline on front page of the electronic version quite recently. It was up for at least 4 hours, despite my comments to this page. Only when I emailed the reporter was the mistake corrected. America's newspaper of record does not need few copy editors, but more and better. I realize that with the overwhelming speed that news is happening these days, the pressure is on the reporting and editing staff to get things out quickly. Quicker is not better and this newspaper represents this country. Quality not quantity is far better. I find it insulting, when reputable journalist (I'm talking Brian Lehrer) revert to using acronyms to appeal to younger listeners. They sound as silly as an 80 year old in a mini skirt and boa looks or a president who tweets sounds. This is a grown up newspaper, please continue with the award winning journalism you are famous for and retain a staff of copy writers, who can read and correct errors. Do not devolve to the level of our president!
65
Ouch, please resist making fun of 80-year-olds. I happen to look quite fetching in my miniskirt.
1
Quite simply, this bold move would end our respect and subscription to the Times which, until now, has been our only trusted source of news. The Washington Post is our second choice. Please reconsider.
66
I would expect one of the last bastions of accurate news in America would be ADDING editors, not removing them. I'm supporting your mission with my dollars. Do not let me down.
85
Is The Times intent on losing its position as the newspaper of record? Is it pointing toward becoming just another news outlet? Because that's the direction it is going in with this latest ill-considered decision.
I subscribe to the Times (the print edition) because it is the best. If it becomes no better than other news-gatherers, I can look elsewhere. And I very well might.
I subscribe to the Times (the print edition) because it is the best. If it becomes no better than other news-gatherers, I can look elsewhere. And I very well might.
51
The plan is to cut the number of copy editors in half. Clearly, this will diminish the quality of the product. Any defense offered should start by acknowledging that you are choosing to put out an inferior product to save money.
78
It's time to double down on fact-checkers and editors. You don't want to become fake news by way of negligence.
94
Why does the magazine section seem so lousy and forgettable? Why couldn't NYT have found an erudite replacement for William Saffire's "On Language" column? Lastly, why can't a newspaper that purports to be from and about NY seem to so infrequently focus on NY's own baseball teams?
12
The New York Times is proposing to fire 50% of the copy desk staff (and eliminate the desk itself). Logically it would seem to follow that 50% less copy editing would be done at the paper.
With such competition among newspapers, New York Times retains an edge by having its reputation be one accuracy and competence.
Copy editors save the paper everyday, from mistakes both large and small. So, I would like to ask if the likely damage to the paper's reputation is necessary for profitability, and/or worth it in terms of damaged reputation. Thank you.
PS: Please bring back the Public Editor!
With such competition among newspapers, New York Times retains an edge by having its reputation be one accuracy and competence.
Copy editors save the paper everyday, from mistakes both large and small. So, I would like to ask if the likely damage to the paper's reputation is necessary for profitability, and/or worth it in terms of damaged reputation. Thank you.
PS: Please bring back the Public Editor!
53
For years now, American media including the NYT has suffered from a lack of proper editing as once done. Reporters are not checked by editors in the same way they once were, and their stories show that.
What will the NYT do to improve the quality of the work from its reporters, instead of the editors it is now letting go?
What will the NYT do to improve the quality of the work from its reporters, instead of the editors it is now letting go?
37