------ turkey can't let the kurds have their own territory - they have all the oil ! . . .
2
An article containing dry facts but no context can sometimes be no different than one deliberately misrepresenting the facts.
For example, correspondent Kingsley reports “city authorities sacked most members of the municipally run theater troupe”. Yet no mention is made of Erdogan's dislike of Western cultural influence. This is the guy trying to demolish the Ataturk Cultural Center in Istanbul to build a mosque in its place. So to cite cutting funds to a Kurdish theatrical troupe as indicative of “repression (which) began again after a cease-fire with Kurdish militants fell apart in 2015” is misleading. All one has to do is read the following article also from 2015: http://www.sampsoniaway.org/fearless-ink/2015/11/25/turkish-opera-under-...
Another example: “Across southeast Turkey, where most people are Kurdish, Mr. Erdogan’s government fired over 80 elected mayors and replaced them with state-appointed trustees”. Nowhere does it mention that most of them were supporters of the Kurdish PKK terror organization, and some even lent their city-owned construction equipment to the PKK so they could dig under roadways to place bombs.
Similarly: “In towns across the region, trustees have changed the names of streets previously named for prominent Kurdish figures”. Is the Turkish government supposed to idly sit by if a municipality decides to name a major thoroughfare “Ocalan Avenue” after the jailed leader of the PKK?
Without context an article is not news, only a story.
For example, correspondent Kingsley reports “city authorities sacked most members of the municipally run theater troupe”. Yet no mention is made of Erdogan's dislike of Western cultural influence. This is the guy trying to demolish the Ataturk Cultural Center in Istanbul to build a mosque in its place. So to cite cutting funds to a Kurdish theatrical troupe as indicative of “repression (which) began again after a cease-fire with Kurdish militants fell apart in 2015” is misleading. All one has to do is read the following article also from 2015: http://www.sampsoniaway.org/fearless-ink/2015/11/25/turkish-opera-under-...
Another example: “Across southeast Turkey, where most people are Kurdish, Mr. Erdogan’s government fired over 80 elected mayors and replaced them with state-appointed trustees”. Nowhere does it mention that most of them were supporters of the Kurdish PKK terror organization, and some even lent their city-owned construction equipment to the PKK so they could dig under roadways to place bombs.
Similarly: “In towns across the region, trustees have changed the names of streets previously named for prominent Kurdish figures”. Is the Turkish government supposed to idly sit by if a municipality decides to name a major thoroughfare “Ocalan Avenue” after the jailed leader of the PKK?
Without context an article is not news, only a story.
5
These comments seem quite a distortion of the truth. For example the comments imply that Turkey has some respect for Kurdish minority rights. It does not nor has it in the past. It really needs to be remembered that Attaturk referred to Kurds as "mountain kurds" and that he prohibited their language and repressed their culture. This has been going on well before the PKK was formed in the 1980s.
3
@Yoda: Your personal opinion may be that my comments distort the truth. But opinion aside, you have provided no facts to counter any of the points I have touched upon in my earlier comment. Between opinion and fact, I choose to stick to facts.
Such as the fact that contrary to your claim, in the early years of the Turkish republic the Kurds were not referred to as "mountain Kurds" but rather as "mountain Turks". This was during an era of nationalism following the Turk's successful War of Independence following which all citizens of the republic were viewed as Turkish, regardless of their ethnic heritage. Just like the concept of the great "melting pot" here in the United States where we are all Americans despite our diverse backgrounds. It is true that unlike in the U.S. there were onerous restrictions placed on the Kurds right to express their ethnicity, but that dramatically changed after Erdogan came to power starting in 2003. And contrary to what this article claims, those rights still remain in effect.
Such as the fact that contrary to your claim, in the early years of the Turkish republic the Kurds were not referred to as "mountain Kurds" but rather as "mountain Turks". This was during an era of nationalism following the Turk's successful War of Independence following which all citizens of the republic were viewed as Turkish, regardless of their ethnic heritage. Just like the concept of the great "melting pot" here in the United States where we are all Americans despite our diverse backgrounds. It is true that unlike in the U.S. there were onerous restrictions placed on the Kurds right to express their ethnicity, but that dramatically changed after Erdogan came to power starting in 2003. And contrary to what this article claims, those rights still remain in effect.
3
Kurdish cannot become a primary language in Turkey. There can only be one official language (which is Turkish). There is no suppression of people talking Kurdish. I hear people talk Kurdish far away from Diyarbakir, on the western shores of Turkey.
If you try to make Kurdish an official language, then the country will split into two. No reasonable person wants that, and Kurds do not want that.
If you try to make Kurdish an official language, then the country will split into two. No reasonable person wants that, and Kurds do not want that.
4
Mr. Todd S. maybe you are talking on behalf of Turks, not the Kurds. You can not say that Kurds do not want KURDISH become an official language by not allowing the Kurds to speak. In essence that is being the problem with TURKISH state since its foundation by not allowing the KURDS to speak for themselves rather, the TURKS speak for them.
3
Todd, why not? In Cyprus the Turkish population, which made up 18% of the islands total population, demanded that Turkish be an official language. This was despite the fact that 80% of the population was Greek. Ironically in Turkey today the Kurds make up about 20% of the population and Turks 80%. Why should bilingualism on an official basis be accepted in Cyprus but not Turkey?
3
I have simply never understood why the Kurds have traditionally been so suppressed by countries in the Middle East.
1
Because they have always lent themselves to be tools of colonial/imperial forces. That is the case today as well. The Kurds are being used by the U.S. and the western powers to open a passage to the Mediterranean. Once that is complete, the U.S. will establish a base there, and abandon its nearby base in Incirlik, Turkey. I am almost certain that afterwards, the U.S. will ignore the Kurds.
3
The Kurds have always been poor and divided and living in the mountains on the front line between the Mediterranean empires (Roman/Byzantine, Ottoman) and Persia (which we now call Iran).
Their present progress is due to the oil fields in their territories and the fact that Saddam Hussein's Iraq collapsed.
Their present progress is due to the oil fields in their territories and the fact that Saddam Hussein's Iraq collapsed.
This story points to the serious need for an aggressive journalistic investigation into the details of the breakdown of peace talks between the Turks and PKK in 2015. Erdogan's loss in the 2015 election meant that he needed to enhance his own popularity and to end the then growing popularity of the pro-Kurdish, liberal HDP party. How? By appealing to the inherent nationalistic, if not fascistic, instincts of far too many Turks. There was no better way to accomplish those goals than to resume the war against the PKK. But why did the PKK play along with Erdogan by returning to war without registering any noticeable complaint? That is a question this story does not answer.
Was it simply the PKK was also spoiling for more fighting? I realize the PKK has a long history of shooting itself in the foot during the Kurds' understandable and valiant struggle for greater autonomy. PKK bombings and targeted assassinations have often seemed to be politically counterproductive and militarily useless, if not foolish. But returning to war against a far greater military power at that critical time in 2015 could have benefited only one person and one cause: Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Turkish nationalism. Resumption of the war would only eviscerate support for Kurdish autonomy and independence and the HDP among all "patriotic" Turks. I wish some enterprising journalist would ask PKK's leadership if they gave any thought to those considerations before effectively doing Erdogan's bidding.
Was it simply the PKK was also spoiling for more fighting? I realize the PKK has a long history of shooting itself in the foot during the Kurds' understandable and valiant struggle for greater autonomy. PKK bombings and targeted assassinations have often seemed to be politically counterproductive and militarily useless, if not foolish. But returning to war against a far greater military power at that critical time in 2015 could have benefited only one person and one cause: Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Turkish nationalism. Resumption of the war would only eviscerate support for Kurdish autonomy and independence and the HDP among all "patriotic" Turks. I wish some enterprising journalist would ask PKK's leadership if they gave any thought to those considerations before effectively doing Erdogan's bidding.
4
This again another failure of western European countries to to isolate a regime that is out of control and autocratic. Sanctions should be initiated by all democratic governments against Turkey. Don't wait until it too late again.
4
Global tourism is an aspect that many governments including Turkey relies upon. One way to fight a dictator is to boycott the country and spend your tourist dollars places that promote individual freedom.
4
...One way to fight a dictator is to boycott the country and spend your tourist dollars places that promote individual freedom...
-------- my dancing friends have already stopped going to turkey . . .
-------- my dancing friends have already stopped going to turkey . . .
2
As a nation, we have treated our own Native Americans very poorly, so we cannot be arrogant about what is happening to the Kurds. But it is wrong to try to wipe out a groups identity, their language, their culture. Their unique culture only enhances wherever they live. And 20% of a population is not trivial. Erdogan's use of the attempted coup to jail and/or fire thousands is something we should all deplore. His country will be less than it should be without voices speaking out for minorities and freedom for all people in Turkey. As a Jew I am more sensitive perhaps because this is how it always happened to us.
7
Erdogan's treatment of Kurds is deplorable and inexcusable. Yet we should not forget the Armenian genocide where Kurds were enthusiastic enforcers of Christian killings and a main beneficiary of Armenian land and property.
6
I have to disagree with you regarding the statement of "KURDS were the enforcer of enthusiastic enforcers of Christian Killings" This is a false statement.
The order for the Armenian Genocide was issued by the Ottoman Empire and it was carried out by the Ottoman Empire and its armed forces. They may have utilized all sorts of means such as criminal gangs, from wide range of society and some of them may been KURDS. But "KURDS" as a distinct ethnicity and nation did not organize themselves to participate in this heinous crime of humanity. As it happens today The TURKISH state had organized "VILLAGE GUARDS" solely from Kurdish population of eastern Turkey (Northern Kurdistan) for the purpose of fighting against PKK rebellion, the state with the help of these village guards eradicated over 4000 KURDISH villages from earth. "Kurdish Village Guards" were forced to do the dirty work of eradicating villages on behalf of STATE and these villages were belong to the other fellow KURDS. By this reason you we can not blame the village guards. The blame goes to the state and its enforcing mechanism. Therefor you can not pass blame from TURKS to the KURDS about Armenian Genocide and genocide of other minorities
The order for the Armenian Genocide was issued by the Ottoman Empire and it was carried out by the Ottoman Empire and its armed forces. They may have utilized all sorts of means such as criminal gangs, from wide range of society and some of them may been KURDS. But "KURDS" as a distinct ethnicity and nation did not organize themselves to participate in this heinous crime of humanity. As it happens today The TURKISH state had organized "VILLAGE GUARDS" solely from Kurdish population of eastern Turkey (Northern Kurdistan) for the purpose of fighting against PKK rebellion, the state with the help of these village guards eradicated over 4000 KURDISH villages from earth. "Kurdish Village Guards" were forced to do the dirty work of eradicating villages on behalf of STATE and these villages were belong to the other fellow KURDS. By this reason you we can not blame the village guards. The blame goes to the state and its enforcing mechanism. Therefor you can not pass blame from TURKS to the KURDS about Armenian Genocide and genocide of other minorities
1
Be careful, Kurds. You know what the Turks did to the Armenians.
6
This could happen here in the US
2
you mean that Turkish nationalists can come and demand that the Kurds be prohibited from speaking their own language? That they be beaten? (well, at least the latter occurred in front of the Turkish Ambassador's house last month).
3
It did - in a small way.
1
Kurds have had their culture targeted for extermination in Turkey for decades. It's one of those things to which Americans tend to be oblivious because our media rarely report on it, and, you know, perpetrator is a NATO ally. Years ago already, Turkey banned the use of the Kurdish language in public and celebration of Kurdish holidays. Legislator Leyla Zana was jailed for addressing her Kurdish-speaking constituents in Kurdish decades ago.
14
Apparently the rich and powerful - the International Mafia Top 1% Global Financial Elite Robber Baron/ Radical Religion boys - think the only way they can stay in power is through war and choosing entire "populations" to kill. In Turkey it's the Kurds. In America it's the Muslims. In Germany it was the Jewish population.
Why are average, normal people so willing to believe their lies, make enemies of their friends and families who have different "beliefs" and fight for these craven power-mongers when their only intent is to control the rest of us? Boggles the mind.
No one will ever win a religious war. No one can prove their "belief" is the "true" one. None of them are. The Universe did not produce "middle men or women" to tell us what to believe. Look at the stars tonight. Look at the flower blooming in your yard. Look at the sun and moon. Does the pope or some other "religious" person have to tell them how to behave? NO. Neither do WE need someone else manipulating OUR minds.
WE can stop the socially unconscious male destroy, rape, pillage, plunder WAR parade, which is driven by a few craven men in the world. NOW is the time.
Why are average, normal people so willing to believe their lies, make enemies of their friends and families who have different "beliefs" and fight for these craven power-mongers when their only intent is to control the rest of us? Boggles the mind.
No one will ever win a religious war. No one can prove their "belief" is the "true" one. None of them are. The Universe did not produce "middle men or women" to tell us what to believe. Look at the stars tonight. Look at the flower blooming in your yard. Look at the sun and moon. Does the pope or some other "religious" person have to tell them how to behave? NO. Neither do WE need someone else manipulating OUR minds.
WE can stop the socially unconscious male destroy, rape, pillage, plunder WAR parade, which is driven by a few craven men in the world. NOW is the time.
7
... ever win a religious war. No one can prove their "belief" is the "true" one. None of them are. The Universe did not produce "middle men or women" to tell us what to believe. Look at the stars tonight. Look at the flower blooming in your yard. Look at the sun and moon. Does the pope or some other "religious" person have to tell them how to behave? NO. Neither do WE need someone else manipulating OUR minds...
--------- sounds exactly like what martin Luther was saying, five hundred years ago ! . . .
--------- sounds exactly like what martin Luther was saying, five hundred years ago ! . . .
1
This is a model for tRump and the U.S. It has every chance of becoming OUR way of life, as well. After all, Erdogan is our "ally and friend," right?
From 1880 to 1917 the Turks spent a lot of time trying to kill Armenians.
I suggest it is time to consider labelling the Turkish persecution of Kurds as a genocide.
I suggest it is time to consider labelling the Turkish persecution of Kurds as a genocide.
12
Attaturk himself referred to the Kurds as mountain Turks. Why do they not, as most Turks demands, simply assimilate?
They speak a language that is as different from Turkish as English is. Actually, when you come to think of it, Kurdish, as an Iranian dialect and an Indo-European language, is closer to English than to Turkish.
1
One of America's founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, wrote that "all men are created equal". Why don't all men, including Turks, simply assimilate by adopting America's language, dominant religion, and legal and moral values?
The absurdity of Yoda's comment and mine above is presumably self-evident. Preservation of and identification with one's own culture is as important to one's sense of self-identification as the clothes he or she wears, if not more so. Assimilation in our post-modern world may be a goal of some immigrant parents, politicians and educators, but it is a curse to others, especially those with an appreciation of individual cultural differences. For them it can be a matter of serious loss.
I am a product of assimilation, in that my Greek immigrant grandparents deliberately failed to teach their daughter, my mother, their first language. As a result neither I nor my mother can speak Greek. I regard that as a loss, one which I dearly regret have suffered. I can therefore only begin to imagine how noxious and painful it would be for Kurds to lose their language and cultural heritage to Erdogan's ongoing forced "Turkification". Turks may not respect Kurdish culture, but Kurds will fight and die to preserve it.
The nationalistic strain in Turkey has always been far too powerful and dangerous for those who have had the misfortune to live within its treaty-created boundaries. Glib comments such as Yoda's reflect this unfortunate fact of life for the Kurds.
The absurdity of Yoda's comment and mine above is presumably self-evident. Preservation of and identification with one's own culture is as important to one's sense of self-identification as the clothes he or she wears, if not more so. Assimilation in our post-modern world may be a goal of some immigrant parents, politicians and educators, but it is a curse to others, especially those with an appreciation of individual cultural differences. For them it can be a matter of serious loss.
I am a product of assimilation, in that my Greek immigrant grandparents deliberately failed to teach their daughter, my mother, their first language. As a result neither I nor my mother can speak Greek. I regard that as a loss, one which I dearly regret have suffered. I can therefore only begin to imagine how noxious and painful it would be for Kurds to lose their language and cultural heritage to Erdogan's ongoing forced "Turkification". Turks may not respect Kurdish culture, but Kurds will fight and die to preserve it.
The nationalistic strain in Turkey has always been far too powerful and dangerous for those who have had the misfortune to live within its treaty-created boundaries. Glib comments such as Yoda's reflect this unfortunate fact of life for the Kurds.
1
Actually, I believe Kurdish is a romance language based on Latin.
1
The attack on Kurdish culture is no different than the attack on Palestinian culture, ban on theaters, cultural events of Palestinians in East Jerusalem. But of course, that's not deserving of an article in NYT which is now in favor of Kurds because Israel considers Kurds, who who were instrumental in the Armenian Genocide, their ally.
9
but the Palestinians were allowed to speak and publish in Arabic. The Kurds in Turkey were not. Big difference.
1
Completely different. Palestinians have vowed death to Israel and Jews. Voices that do not feel this way are not heard because of the PLO and Hamas.
"because Israel considers Kurds, who who were instrumental in the Armenian Genocide, their ally." You truly do not know what you are talking about. Countless Armenians were saved by Kurdish families during the genocide. As Turkey never like to take responsibility they tend to malign others by planted fake stories.
It is a behavior all so familiar now living in the time of Trump.
It is a behavior all so familiar now living in the time of Trump.
There is no mention of the terrorist organization inside the Kurdish population.. The image they are holding up is of the organization leader who is no different than Esad when it comes to the murders of over 30,000 innocent people.. The US to supplying arms to this organization and they are being used against the Turkish population.. This article should have included at least one notable person dealing with this issue, perhaps the Secretary of State would have been a good choice, he is very well educated and would have actually given a very independent non biased interviews which could have surprised you..
5
Turkish mistreatment of Kurds has been going on for well before the PKK was formed (in roughly 1980). Attaturk himself called the Kurds "mountain kurds". Do you condemn this racist or do you praise him?
4
Where the Jews in Germany allowed to assimiliate and did HItler referred to the Jews as "mountain Germans"? Tell me, which approach is the better way, the one of Atatürk or the one of Hitler?
Typical Turkish establishment story line. What about the number of "innocent" Kurds killed IN Turkey?
Can President Erdogan rule Turkey ?
The answer is NO.
Try as much as he can,he or ten generations of his cannot obliterate Kurdish Culture and its Proud and Defiant People.
For President Erdogan,everyone is an enemy or an potential enemy.
The downfall of Turkey as a nation is being sown by the impetuousness of President Erdogan.
It's only a matter of time before Turkey descends into Civil War.
The answer is NO.
Try as much as he can,he or ten generations of his cannot obliterate Kurdish Culture and its Proud and Defiant People.
For President Erdogan,everyone is an enemy or an potential enemy.
The downfall of Turkey as a nation is being sown by the impetuousness of President Erdogan.
It's only a matter of time before Turkey descends into Civil War.
8
Ergodan is a dictator, and he is on the verge of committing genocide.
The Kurds are quite possibly the best ally the US ever had. They are the largest ethnic group without their own nation. They are the ones fighting ISIS for us right now. They also follow the anarcho-communist philosopher Bookchin, and are the only group in the whole region that isnt controlled by Islam.
The Kurds deserve all the help we can give them. We have abandoned them before, I hope we dont do it again.
The Kurds are quite possibly the best ally the US ever had. They are the largest ethnic group without their own nation. They are the ones fighting ISIS for us right now. They also follow the anarcho-communist philosopher Bookchin, and are the only group in the whole region that isnt controlled by Islam.
The Kurds deserve all the help we can give them. We have abandoned them before, I hope we dont do it again.
26
but Attaturk had declared the Kurds "mountain kurds" . And Attaturk has a mausoleum and is worshipped in Turkey as a de facto deity. Are you saying this is an error?
ergodan is only continuing long standing Turkish policies towards the kurds. None of this really news. Do you know that Attaturk himself called the Kurds "Mountain Turks"? That he explicitely state that it was his goal that they eventually end up the same way as the native americans did in North America?
2
"The crackdown was nominally intended to target the plotters of the putsch. But it has also been used as a smoke screen to squeeze other groups and movements that promote narratives deemed problematic by the government. More than 140,000 people have been fired or suspended from their jobs, and up to 50,000 have been arrested. Among them are those who, like Mr. Tantekin, promote the concept of a unique Kurdish culture." It has nothing to do with Kurdish people. This is a wrong statement.
6
So the Kurds have not culture? This sounds so typically Turkish. Then Turks wonder why Kurds rebel.
Mr. Han, you need to remember that Turkish mistreatment of Kurds was going on well before the PKK was formed in the 1980s. Even Attaturk, in a disgusting manner, called the "mountain turks" and denied them their language and culture. Do you condemn Attaturk for this barbarous act? Or do you apologize for his disgusting behavior?
Mr. Han, you need to remember that Turkish mistreatment of Kurds was going on well before the PKK was formed in the 1980s. Even Attaturk, in a disgusting manner, called the "mountain turks" and denied them their language and culture. Do you condemn Attaturk for this barbarous act? Or do you apologize for his disgusting behavior?
1
It is only by reading this article that I discovered that Iraqi Kurdistan has an independence referendum in September. I am torn as to whether that is a good thing. The emergence of an independent Kurdistan in any part of the Middle East will unite Turkey, Iraq and Syria in efforts to destroy it. Kurdistan's natural allies would be the United States and Israel, perhaps creating a permanent breach in the Israel-Turkey alliance and stretching our own relationships with Turkey and Iraq to the limit.
4
When the Ottomans ruled what is now Iraq, they rather intelligently divided the country into three provinces, one each for the Kurds, the Shia and the Sunni.
A Kurdistan was briefly considered at the 1919 Paris Peace conference and discarded in favour of the French/British attempt to dismember Turkey by the Treaty of Sevres. This sparked the Turkish War of independence (1921-23) and the treaty of Lausanne which set the current Turkish borders.
In a last gasp of empire, the British and French went on to seize the rest of the Middle East under the secret Sykes-Picot Agreement and establish the artificial states we see today.
The Kurds of iran, Iraq and Turkey should be helped to to establish a national state.
A Kurdistan was briefly considered at the 1919 Paris Peace conference and discarded in favour of the French/British attempt to dismember Turkey by the Treaty of Sevres. This sparked the Turkish War of independence (1921-23) and the treaty of Lausanne which set the current Turkish borders.
In a last gasp of empire, the British and French went on to seize the rest of the Middle East under the secret Sykes-Picot Agreement and establish the artificial states we see today.
The Kurds of iran, Iraq and Turkey should be helped to to establish a national state.
Jason--All of your fears will come true, no matter what anyone does. Conflict is inevitable among these tribes, and sects. All they know is force and violence. It's their answer to every problem they encounter.
3
Jason, the Kurds should have been recognized as a people within a distinct geographic territory after WWI. Instead, various Arab potentates were given newly created countries in what were formerly loosely administered Ottoman lands. The Kurds did not and will not simply disappear for the convenience of the current Turkish (or Iraqi or Iranian) regime. They are rather like the Jews in that respect. They are not Arabs, they are a distinct people. They have been in their land for thousands of years and they do not intend to be pushed out. Whatever the outcome of the referendum, Iraqi Kurdistan is effectively an independent state right now, and it is, after Israel, the most reliable ally the US has in the middle east.
2