Long-time New Yorkers know the subway used to be much much worse than it is today. And it still outshines other cities' transportation options in terms of convenience, speed and distance. I suspect many folks are confused by the juxtaposition of the above-ground vs. below-ground conditions in the city. Above-ground, it's all shiny, new buildings and baby strollers and artisanal foodstuffs; below-ground it's the same old Subway, albeit cleaner and better-run than it was 30 years ago. I recall a time when deadly derailments were not so shocking and we accepted such things as the price you pay to live in New York. So, even though you moved here into a swanky new condo complete with playroom and roof garden, don't expect the guts of this rough-and-tumble city to be up to your "boutique" standards.
11
NY certainly can't count on any federal help. America's greatest cities aren't even really considered part of this country by it's current leader and lifelong New Yorker, Donald J. Trump. They didn't vote for his royal majesty, so they simply don't exist.
9
The problem with the increased overcrowding in the subways is that there are not enough living options available in the city. The city's real estate has priced everyone out and pushed people out who have no other choice but to rely on an aging infrastructure for travel. The burgeoning population using mass transit will only increase if the housing market continues the direction it is going - meaning that that only the wealthy can afford to live there - the infrastructure problems will continue to exist. No one is addressing the housing issue - which is tepid at best - which has a direct impact on the ridership. The petty infighting between a useless puppet mayor that will get reelected bc who else is there and a controlling governor is at the end of the day, not fruitful for the people of city. The rest of NY has to suffer because some think that the heart of NY exists only in NYC. Which spigot do you want to put your finger for a temporary solution??? I come in twice a week on MetroNorth and I dread taking the subway when I have to.
11
Where are de Blasio and Cuomo when stuff like this happens? I know. The gym and some beach on the east end of Long Island respectively. Subway and mass transit problems are only for the little people.
6
The response of the mayor and the governor to this latest incident would be laughable if it wasn't so enraging. De Blasio runs to avoid reporters' questions; Cuomo throws up his hands in response to a reporter's question about who is in charge and exclaims, (shrugging his shoulders and throwing up his hands), "Who knows?". Subsidies go to real estate developers of luxury housing (for which no doubt, ultimately, clean new jitneys will convey the affluent to midtown at the taxpayers' expense), millions are diverted to clogging the city's streets with bicycle lanes. On just about everyone's list of what the nation needs, investment in safe, new, modern public transit will meet the same fate as our needs for housing, education and health care so long as the American people vote the same scoundrels into office.
3
The train derailed due to the improper installation of a rail Wonder who will be held accountable
1
NYC's bulging wealth is above ground. Out of sight, out of mind. Billionaires and multimillionaires do not use the subway, which for them is for the dregs. I've been coming to the City for many years but recently the ever increasing and flabbergasting self centered wealth is strangling instead of helping this incredible city.
12
Okay we are not the only city in the world to transport millions of people a day. Why can't we study how cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Shanghai transport people and apply some of their knowledge to our system? (For example in Hong Kong things move extremely fast, organized and smoothly with escalators, grounds are marked to show the direction of foot traffic like one way streets etc)
Why are we paying a flat rate for Subway fares? No where else in the world is this done. It sure isn't helping to build budgets to maintain the system. I never understood this. And with the increase in riders in recent years you'd think the MTA would have more money. Where is it all going??
It's apparent there is also an immediate need for more trains.
New. York. City..... this is embarrassing.
Why are we paying a flat rate for Subway fares? No where else in the world is this done. It sure isn't helping to build budgets to maintain the system. I never understood this. And with the increase in riders in recent years you'd think the MTA would have more money. Where is it all going??
It's apparent there is also an immediate need for more trains.
New. York. City..... this is embarrassing.
12
Waiting for infrastructure investment.
Waiting under Reagan, under Bush, under Clinton, under Bush, under Obama, under Trump. Still waiting.
But like my friend said: Why invest in infrastructures, we are already number one, aren't we?
Waiting under Reagan, under Bush, under Clinton, under Bush, under Obama, under Trump. Still waiting.
But like my friend said: Why invest in infrastructures, we are already number one, aren't we?
11
I've been living in New York City for 27 years next month - more than half my life, and I really love living here. The subway is the life line of this city, and is one of the services that makes living here possible.
Increasingly, though, I've been wondering how we became so complacent in recent years with a subway system so dirty that you hesitate to touch anything, or sit anywhere; where the acrid smell of urine is something we now take for granted; through which panhandlers pass in wave after depressing wave; in which you risk being kicked in the face by a 'showtimer,' or have your thoughts intruded upon by some other performer hoping to collect a few bucks.
These days when I see tourists on the subway, I feel ... embarrassed.
Most of us would be ashamed to invite guests into homes as dirty. New York is one of the world's major cities. Aren't we proud to live here anymore?
We're in the unenviable position of needing politicians to allocate funds for our infrastructure, and in the past few years, politicians have repeatedly proven that power and PR are far more important to them than doing the right thing for the people they represent. No help there.
For all his faults, the subway system was transformed for the better while Guiliani was mayor. Maybe New York City is just one of those places that needs a bulldog at the helm?
I would very gladly live without the new electronic kiosks, or even, *gasp* the free wifi, if it meant a cleaner, safer, quieter subway ride.
Increasingly, though, I've been wondering how we became so complacent in recent years with a subway system so dirty that you hesitate to touch anything, or sit anywhere; where the acrid smell of urine is something we now take for granted; through which panhandlers pass in wave after depressing wave; in which you risk being kicked in the face by a 'showtimer,' or have your thoughts intruded upon by some other performer hoping to collect a few bucks.
These days when I see tourists on the subway, I feel ... embarrassed.
Most of us would be ashamed to invite guests into homes as dirty. New York is one of the world's major cities. Aren't we proud to live here anymore?
We're in the unenviable position of needing politicians to allocate funds for our infrastructure, and in the past few years, politicians have repeatedly proven that power and PR are far more important to them than doing the right thing for the people they represent. No help there.
For all his faults, the subway system was transformed for the better while Guiliani was mayor. Maybe New York City is just one of those places that needs a bulldog at the helm?
I would very gladly live without the new electronic kiosks, or even, *gasp* the free wifi, if it meant a cleaner, safer, quieter subway ride.
17
I used to be much much worse
2
The first impulse is to call the NY subway system "third world." Not even close. I recently spent weeks between Rio de Janeiro and Mexico, and they have undergrounds that are clean, efficient, safe and run on time. Actually, I guess that when something goes wrong in these "third world" transportation systems they fear that they will end like the NY transportation systems.
11
Where is that infastructure infusement that the Republicans were talking about? We need it NOW for all kinds of things!
13
Why has money been spent all these years on renovating stations and installing digital boards before basic maintenance of the cars, tracks, the guts of the system were in place?
14
Because politicians spend money on what the public can SEE; infrastructure carries no glory.
1
Meanwhile, the City has to spend millions of dollars providing protection to the Trump clan. Disgusting!
34
Yes, that expenditure for the past six months is exactly what caused all of these problems and limits the solutions? Absurd.
4
There are accidents in every form of transportation, and the subway system there, which I have ridden many times, is far safer than cars. Are there problems? Sure. For one, I'd like to see more escalators because walking up all those stairs is not one of my favorite pastimes, although I agree it has a certain exercise value. But as we say "get well soon" to those injured in this derailment, let's also remember to keep our perspective. The problems can be addressed, and overall, NYC has the most comprehensive and convenient, efficient systems, and at a very low cost compared to cars, in the world. When I visit again, I won't hesitate one minute to take the subway.
17
"...although I agree it has a certain exercise value."
If you are disable in some way, as very many are, with limited mobility for any number of reason, then "stairs having a certain exercise value" doesn't cut it.
If you are disable in some way, as very many are, with limited mobility for any number of reason, then "stairs having a certain exercise value" doesn't cut it.
5
I've been riding the subways since 1962 when the cost of a ride was 15 cents
I've been buying pizza since 1962 when a slice cost 15 cents
In all these years the cost of a subway ride and the cost of a slice of pizza have been the same. This is posted just for contemplation.
I've been buying pizza since 1962 when a slice cost 15 cents
In all these years the cost of a subway ride and the cost of a slice of pizza have been the same. This is posted just for contemplation.
21
And, New World, no matter what others may tell you, the pizza was and is better for you than the subway ride. In 1948, a subway ride was $.05 and they didn't sell pizza by slice. Making of all of this what you will, in 1948 we saw photos of Miss Subways in the cars, and now we have abortion and drug information to delight our senses. Walk where you're going and have two slices of pizza when you get there with the subway fare saved.
1
Is it going to take a tragedy for something to change? At the least, placards that have emergency procedures should be in all subway / commuter train cars.
An issue that is also feeding into this are all the new high rises being built in NYC. What percent of the occupants will be riding mass transit? Also, why are so many of these developers getting tax abatements. NYC has enough high priced buildings that are sitting with money laundered apartments.
President Trump wanted to focus on infrastructure - here's your first project. Get out your golden shovel & say cheese!
An issue that is also feeding into this are all the new high rises being built in NYC. What percent of the occupants will be riding mass transit? Also, why are so many of these developers getting tax abatements. NYC has enough high priced buildings that are sitting with money laundered apartments.
President Trump wanted to focus on infrastructure - here's your first project. Get out your golden shovel & say cheese!
13
What IS it? Are we so entitled, fat-and-happy that we demand first-class services but don't want to pay for them with taxes? Is the delivery-side bureaucracy so fat that money is spent the wrong ways? Both? Neither? We do seem to be aiding and abetting a slide toward third-world-country status.
15
As the city got safer, more people wanted to visit and live here. Thanks in part to "Friends", "Seinfeld" and "Sex And The City", New York looked like a harmless, fun place to live. Real estate developers were given virtually free rein to build wherever and whatever they wanted.
Unfortunately no on seems to have given a thought as to how this unrestrained growth would strain the infrastructure. Not a priority when profit comes first.
Unfortunately no on seems to have given a thought as to how this unrestrained growth would strain the infrastructure. Not a priority when profit comes first.
27
Great point. I've never understood why there isn't a tax on new developments to support the MTA. Developers live and die by transportation access (the Kent ave condos and the L train in Williamsburg are a perfect example), so an infrastructure tax would be a small price for developers to pay towards the infrastructure that enabled their profits in the first place
19
Pete, I like the way you think. More NY'ers like you need to speak up at local city hall meetings, write their local, state and federal representatives and make these changes happen. I lived in Brooklyn for 6 years in the 90's but now live in a place with a growing public transit system that is in the news as well for safety issues. I've got my city council meetings on my calendar now, so it's time to recruit my neighbors and co-workers to show up with me and make our voices heard.
5
I take the NY subway and NJ Transit as much as I can because I believe in public transportation and I want to support it. Hearing stories like this makes me scared and shocked, but I am still committed to using and supporting the system because it's one of the few good things in America these days. There must be a way to prevent things from getting worse. I guess workers like me will have to start phoning politicians during business hours and risk losing our jobs.
10
I am retired. and I never take the subway on weekends; it's for tourists.....and totally false. These messages about track repair and delays are not honest. Who is sending these messages out. For $2.50 a ride, we deserve to know.
2
If you're complaining that the $2.50 is too high, the reality is it probably doesn't begin to cover the actual operating costs of the MTA.
7
Swiss Railways are reporting this morning that all trains are on schedule.
6
I wonder what it will take for the Times to do a real investigative story about the longstanding corruption in Albany and the MTA that has left our subway system in this Third World state of chaos. Perhaps when a Republican is elected governor? Of course, it will be quite embarrassing if the Washington Post gets to the story first.
Until then, it's nice that Cuomo brought back one of the men who is certainly part of the reason our subway looks this way (Lhota). Cuomo knows where his bread is buttered. I guess the Times does as well.
Until then, it's nice that Cuomo brought back one of the men who is certainly part of the reason our subway looks this way (Lhota). Cuomo knows where his bread is buttered. I guess the Times does as well.
10
I go to Thailand for holiday. Bangkok has a beautiful "sky train" and a beautiful subway. The subway platforms have sliding barriers that automatically close as trains approach the stations. These so-called "Third World" countries make North America seem like it is the Fifth World.
21
Absolutely. And the Beijing subway is a delight, and cheaper to use than NY's.
it is shocking that Cuomo isn't here, visiting the site immediately, vowing full and immediate investigations, explaining his record of inattention to the subway system and vowing to make sure it does not happen again. The fact he is not here nor has issued a statement about his arrival today or tomorrow is inexcusable. The scant coverage from the Times and other outlets is also deeply disappointing. Are we all so used to 800 people stuck in a tunnel and 30 people treated at a hospital that is doesn't cause focused attention and in-depth investigation, interviews, film, review of past incidents, timelines of the history of investments, etc.? If you watch NY! and you would barely even know it happened. A story about the benefits to health of tree nuts is getting far more prominent coverage. I've been listening to NY1 for 30 minutes and barely any in-depth coverage. Hopefully it is coming shortly. I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe.
6
Where is DiBlasio???
4
Being chauffeured about town by his "detail" like he is the president in isolated comfort.
2
thank you mr. cuomo for your incessant foot dragging. how many years has it been now that you've held sway over the mta and our subways? how many years has it been that you've consistantly underfunded maintenance and upgrades? this system is a disgrace and while you are (unfortunately) not solely to blame, you shoulder a large part of it. fun cutting the ribbon on the new 2nd ave extension though, right? i mean, maintenance? who celebrates that? thank you for nothing as well as your childish attempts in meddling in nyc's infrastructure then attempting to blame our mayor. you are just another useless politician, far from a leader.
12
A worker say something? The MTA will throw you out of service for life. Report bad rail? You'll be out of service. Suggest something creative, fix the problem on the railroad, or actually go by the preexisting rules to report bad track conditions more than once? High crime! Banned from the railroad. It's politics before safety or efficient train operation every time. Compare the ratio of managers to workers. It ain't rocket science NY Times. All those tests? Junk and the reason the conductor didn't say a word. Too busy clowning around second guessing what the lawyers are going to do if he or she says something. Too much testing on rules written by the legal department and investigations by silly managers who need to get stay relevant in their irrelevance and not enough focused attention on what happens when metal collides.
9
Cuomo needs to hear from New Yorkers. Together, we can get his attention.
8
In my opinion, NYC is the greatest city in the world and it deserves a first class transportation system. Instead we get the mess this article illustrates so clearly. Unfortunately to bring our transportation system up to where it should be is beyond both the city and state to fix. It really is a national problem and leadership should come from Washington where there are sufficient resources available to do the job.
19
Yes, let's hope for more money from Washington, but please, no "leadership" from this dysfunctional administration.
3
No, absolutely not. The Federal government is broke and was not created to make sure your toy train set works. The horrific condition of the NYC subway system is the product of corruption in NYC government and the Metro Transit Authority. Nobody else in any other of the 49 States of America are responsible for the foul smelling and broken subway in New York which is run by corrupt NYC Liberals who already have more than enough money to fix the subway's problems but they steal the money instead of fixing their subway with it. The answer is no.
5
I agree. Although there has been mismanagement of funds by the state and city towards infrastructure (and subways of course), the Federal Govt needs to help.
Considering how important the NYC metropolitan area is for the national economy and how much infrastructure affects it, every American should rally behind this since it actually will "trickle down" to the rest of the 50 states. However, I know people in the rural areas, including NY state, may not want that at all. "Let those coastal leftists suffer".
Provincialism is of course exactly what Putin and his minions want for our country, and the GOP is happy to oblige - also happy to take blue state revenue for red states!
Considering how important the NYC metropolitan area is for the national economy and how much infrastructure affects it, every American should rally behind this since it actually will "trickle down" to the rest of the 50 states. However, I know people in the rural areas, including NY state, may not want that at all. "Let those coastal leftists suffer".
Provincialism is of course exactly what Putin and his minions want for our country, and the GOP is happy to oblige - also happy to take blue state revenue for red states!
7
Why don't people put more pressure on the MTA board? Anyone have their twitter accounts or emails? They approve the funding proposed by the various agencies. This includes all the fancy projects which includes things like the bridge lighting, malls instead of subway electrical improvements, art projects etc. Let's put pressure on those who vote for every change order request. I guarantee they will be more thoughtful with the requests moving forward rather than always rubber stamping them.
12
I truly believe if more New Yorkers (and Americans in general) could afford to travel to Asia and Europe for a few weeks, they might start a revolt. This is so unacceptable for the "Number 1" country in the world and for its most important/flagship city.
Everything from infrastructure to universal healthcare to overall happiness index and social mobility is falling in America. These subway horror stories are a symptom of this greater decline which started around 1980.
Even in Moscow and St Petersburg. where I spent a month, had superb infrastructure. It's sad that even under new Russian management, America's infrastructure won't be brought up to date like the rest of the G20.
Everything from infrastructure to universal healthcare to overall happiness index and social mobility is falling in America. These subway horror stories are a symptom of this greater decline which started around 1980.
Even in Moscow and St Petersburg. where I spent a month, had superb infrastructure. It's sad that even under new Russian management, America's infrastructure won't be brought up to date like the rest of the G20.
36
As an American who travels, it is very humiliating at this point to see how far we have fallen. Rail throughout the European Union, South Korea, and Japan is lovely to ride. As long as we spend all of our money on useless wars and the billion dollar military toys of grown men our country will continue its decline. The Fall of Rome is instructive on this point.
45
And to think Trump supporters believe they're the humiliated Americans - while the rest of us have seen up close how good the competition is.
I've been hearing and reading about the military-industrial complex for nearly 50 years now; in fact Smedley Butler warned us in 1935. I can't see how any centrist or progressive Democrat President/Congress can cure America of this war-industry cancer.
I've been hearing and reading about the military-industrial complex for nearly 50 years now; in fact Smedley Butler warned us in 1935. I can't see how any centrist or progressive Democrat President/Congress can cure America of this war-industry cancer.
6
In 2015 84% of the federal budget went to social security, entitlement programs (Medicare and Medicaid, CHP and ACA subsidies), safety net programs and to pay interest on the national debt. The amount of interest paid is continuing to increase and will continue. Entitlement programs are also increasing. All of these expenses are expected to take 90% of the federal budget by 2025. The remainder of the pie has to fund EVERYTHING else. If we stopped spending any money on defense and security there isn't enough $ left to do all of the things everyone wants. Look at the budgets of the countries you mention and suggest how we can fund a first-class transportation system. Just don't say by taxing the rich and getting rid of the armed forces. The numbers don't add up.
1
I retired last September although I had planned on working a few more years. I was fortunately able to bail out and my primary reason; I couldn't take the rush hour commute any longer. The delays on the 7th Avenue line commuting from 96th Street Station to Fulton Street had become unbearable. Rather than retire, a colleague suggested that I just take a car service to the office each day and I thought this is insane.
7
Subway system too important to leave in the hands of Cuomo to manage-just look at the success of the START-UP New York program he runs; Management should go to professionals in the transportation industry such as those who run CSX railroad or Southwest Airlines.
8
An aside:
The writers of this piece buried the lede in the third and fourth paragraphs, I assume in order to fit it within the Times' overall, recent series of articles highlighting the failings of the subway system. That muddied the news story, which, on its own merits, clearly has page-one, above-the-fold importance.
More broadly, while I don't dispute the truth of anything that's been written in this series of subway articles, I've been wondering whether its launch actually corresponded to a significant downturn in service. That's a reasonable inference and, if it's not really so, the timing was arbitrary and the signal problems and such that have been covered are not "news" in the strict sense. That would mean that the news desk is engaged in advocacy - an extremely worthwhile objective but isn't it the domain of the Editorial section?
Sorry for being pedantic. I've had my own experiences of subway service misery, so no argument on that score.
The writers of this piece buried the lede in the third and fourth paragraphs, I assume in order to fit it within the Times' overall, recent series of articles highlighting the failings of the subway system. That muddied the news story, which, on its own merits, clearly has page-one, above-the-fold importance.
More broadly, while I don't dispute the truth of anything that's been written in this series of subway articles, I've been wondering whether its launch actually corresponded to a significant downturn in service. That's a reasonable inference and, if it's not really so, the timing was arbitrary and the signal problems and such that have been covered are not "news" in the strict sense. That would mean that the news desk is engaged in advocacy - an extremely worthwhile objective but isn't it the domain of the Editorial section?
Sorry for being pedantic. I've had my own experiences of subway service misery, so no argument on that score.
4
I don't know which is worse the MTA in NY or the T in Boston but they're both antiquated nightmares to ride. I make an effort to have a small headlamp in my backpack or my key chain with an LED light, when I travel on public transport.
Also when I fly or stay in hotels. Having those small items may save your life in an emergency.
Also when I fly or stay in hotels. Having those small items may save your life in an emergency.
19
Add Philadelphia to that list! Meanwhile the DC Metro is undergoing major renovations and is a much younger system than ours (NY, Boston, Philly). D.C. Puts so much money into infrastructure and public programs (health, education, etc). I realize the District is a different case, since it's neither a city, nor a state, but following their lead on public inverstments would be wise.
2
This wonderful city of ours will be no more without its life and blood, which forever has been its subway system. When I came to New York in 2000 it was a wondrous place to immerse yourself into. Yes, it was hot and not terribly clean. But it ran on time, there was music and New York characters and you felt you were in a world-class city. Seventeen years later the total disarray of our subway system is intolerable and shameful. Every week, with every new incident, we are been warned that tragedy WILL strike at some point. Do people need to die before our elected officials do something about it? Today was the closest call yet. If even one New Yorker, tourist, or dog dies on a train because the system is falling apart, mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo should be impeached and thrown out of office and into Ryker's Island and charged with manslaughter. Is not like they don't know that catastrophe is coming. Yet they do nothing.
And what about our dear president? He's a New Yorker. I'm sure he hasn't set foot on a subway train in his entire life, but he surely understands how important it is to keep it running properly for his beloved city to continue being what it is. Surely he gets that. Right? Right.
I fear this wonderful city of us will be no more.
And what about our dear president? He's a New Yorker. I'm sure he hasn't set foot on a subway train in his entire life, but he surely understands how important it is to keep it running properly for his beloved city to continue being what it is. Surely he gets that. Right? Right.
I fear this wonderful city of us will be no more.
25
I live in WaHI and I NEVER take the train when I go to midtown at night for a show or movie. I hate waiting for hours only to miss my show when the express is not running without warning or It runs at 3 mph through its entire run. I get criticized for driving and leaving a large carbon footprint. Maybe NYC should wake up and realize that people will NOT use this system if it is not safe, clean and reliable. It appears to be none of the above!
16
A car is faster?
4
Serious delays and accidents are very rare. In my 17 years riding the subway here daily, I can count on one hand the memorably bad rides/delays.
That's still no reason to try and rationalize having your own car in a place like NYC. Why not just admit you simply like having your own vehicle? Otherwise, you'd simply be using taxis, Uber, Zipcar, etc., which would save you money in the long run, versus all the costs and aggravations of owning a car in NYC.
That's still no reason to try and rationalize having your own car in a place like NYC. Why not just admit you simply like having your own vehicle? Otherwise, you'd simply be using taxis, Uber, Zipcar, etc., which would save you money in the long run, versus all the costs and aggravations of owning a car in NYC.
2
Ok, someone here mentioned that we should move to Houston and commute in our own cars. Let's put things in perspective, shall we? Houston is, well... Texas. And even if you don't mind the red-state mosquito-infested, gun-loving, God-fearing politics of the South, commuting by car is by far more dangerous than commuting by subway, no matter how old and decrepit the subway system is.
Around 100 people die each day in the US in car accidents. That is a fact. And that's every day, and not counting people who's seriously wounded or maimed for life every day. We don't bat an eye because we're use to it. But let's not kid ourselves--driving is one of the most lethal activities humans can do.
No one has died on the subway because of a crash in many years. Granted, the way things are going here, that will probably change pretty soon (shame on you Cuomo!). But it will still be far safer than driving on the expressway. Order of magnitude safer. I know humans are terrible at assessing risk, but if we're going to give up on the city, we should do it because of Hipsters, or the rent, or the artisanal coffee shop on the corner. Not because you feel unsafe in the subway and feel oh so good on your new Honda. How you feel has nothing to do with how safe you are. So leave the car, take the F train.
Around 100 people die each day in the US in car accidents. That is a fact. And that's every day, and not counting people who's seriously wounded or maimed for life every day. We don't bat an eye because we're use to it. But let's not kid ourselves--driving is one of the most lethal activities humans can do.
No one has died on the subway because of a crash in many years. Granted, the way things are going here, that will probably change pretty soon (shame on you Cuomo!). But it will still be far safer than driving on the expressway. Order of magnitude safer. I know humans are terrible at assessing risk, but if we're going to give up on the city, we should do it because of Hipsters, or the rent, or the artisanal coffee shop on the corner. Not because you feel unsafe in the subway and feel oh so good on your new Honda. How you feel has nothing to do with how safe you are. So leave the car, take the F train.
17
I can imagine few things more hellish than this. It touches on all my fears -- claustrophobia, being trapped, burning -- to the point that I felt physically uncomfortable reading about it. I am so sad for those who were there. I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation. (I think I may have had a panic attack.) It seems that everyone behaved well and helped others, so that is something to take away. People can be good when it counts.
Uber!
Uber!
13
We do not need subway privatization, what we need is to support public mass transport, and to do so robustly
To paraphrase the rallying cry of endearing causes in the 1960s and 2010s...what do we need? Realistic pricing! When do we need it? Now!
I bear witness to an important principle: do not price services to what the poor can pay. For sure, it is urgent to address the very legitimate needs of the poor, but it is vital that we address these needs thru other mechanisms.
We absolutely must mass transit services at their cost. If the cost of mass transit service is greater than the competition (taxi), then we are doing a poor job reflecting the true cost of taxi service. Truth be told, we are utter dolts if we fail to impose tolls that reflect the incremental cost (including all kinds of pollution) of additional roads needed to carry incremental street traffic.
Will accurate pricing encourage employers to allow employees to work at home? Besides the fact that the MTA is officially encouraging work at home already anyway (by public pleading for altruistic stay-at-home behavior, a rather uneconomic tactic), the more salient points are: (1) society (gov't) needs to allow economically-rational behavior to carry out, or otherwise suffer all the very embarrassing, odious and harmful impacts and, (2), gov't needs to fund essential services.
To paraphrase the rallying cry of endearing causes in the 1960s and 2010s...what do we need? Realistic pricing! When do we need it? Now!
I bear witness to an important principle: do not price services to what the poor can pay. For sure, it is urgent to address the very legitimate needs of the poor, but it is vital that we address these needs thru other mechanisms.
We absolutely must mass transit services at their cost. If the cost of mass transit service is greater than the competition (taxi), then we are doing a poor job reflecting the true cost of taxi service. Truth be told, we are utter dolts if we fail to impose tolls that reflect the incremental cost (including all kinds of pollution) of additional roads needed to carry incremental street traffic.
Will accurate pricing encourage employers to allow employees to work at home? Besides the fact that the MTA is officially encouraging work at home already anyway (by public pleading for altruistic stay-at-home behavior, a rather uneconomic tactic), the more salient points are: (1) society (gov't) needs to allow economically-rational behavior to carry out, or otherwise suffer all the very embarrassing, odious and harmful impacts and, (2), gov't needs to fund essential services.
2
I was on the last car of this train today. It was very frightening - after the lights went out it was a few scary minutes until the conductor made an announcement that "we are investigating"..... then nothing! The people in the car directly in front of us started banging on the windows, trying to get out because of the smoke. Since we were in the last car, one of the guys heroically knocked down the door to the conductor room - then another guy broke the front windshield off. A few of us decided to brave it and go through the window to the tracks. When I got out I was able to get some phone service and called 911. I was amazed that during this entire frightening process there wasn't even one more announcement from the conductor! One man and I looked back and saw deepening smoke and decided to try to walk to the 135th station which we successfully did. When we got to the station the workers there didn't seem aware of the problem! And when I got out onto the street I found a fire truck and told them where the smoke was and they too seemed out of the loop - I am just wondering who is in charge in emergency situations like this? Is there a protocol? Shouldn't all the information automatically go to a dispatcher when there is a derailment? Also it was very frightening that there was no way to open windows on the train - I kept thinking of the recent London blaze - were we going to just sit inside and die of smoke inhalation? I felt very lucky to be in the last car.
67
Thanks for this detailed first-hand report.
18
This account should be a "Times Pick" comment (and I hope the reporters are getting in touch with the commenter, to include these facts in the next version of the story). Thanks for sharing your experience.
17
Today I took three subway rides on the Westside using routes that ought to have brought me to my destinations in about 70 minutes. Instead getting where I needed to get to took me 205 minutes. I was late for everything, all day long. At what point will the subway system make New York City so sick of itself that a decent life here becomes an untenable proposition? Looking around at the depressed and defeated faces of those weary souls lurching home this evening on the A train, it was easy to think: we are not far from unliveability at all. -- In the meantime: note to Mayor De Blasio and Governor Cuomo: no political club in the world can summon enough votes to save you from the fury of New Yorkers when they or a candidate of their persuasion turn this issue around on you. Pointing fingers 'over there' won't help you when 'Throw the incompetent bums out" is on every commuter's mind in this metropolis of 8 million.
48
Since Reagan's time, the bought politicians have worked to starve public services so they can point to the problems and get acceptance for privatizing everything they can get away with. Then, we find out privatizing makes everything worse. In the meantime, we keep giving the 1% more and more and more tax breaks. Until that is reversed, nothing will fix this.
8
This city is going down the drain. Between Penn Station and the subways the
public transportation system is an absolute disaster. The politicians should be ashamed of themselves instead of doing business as usual.
public transportation system is an absolute disaster. The politicians should be ashamed of themselves instead of doing business as usual.
16
LaGuardia passengers had big problems tonight, also, according to the local news channels.
1
Is that glow-in-the dark graffiti?
2
NYC Subways Are Not Safe
Governor Cuomo should be ashamed of himself. For too long he has done too little about improving subway safety.
Old, outdated cars, tracks in need of repair, flammable debris on the tracks, poor communication with passengers, inadequate emergency back up devices, etc. These are repairs which must be addressed now - in order to preemptively prevent terrible accidents, injury or loss of life.
The NY Times must do more investigative reporting - in addition - to reporting subway accidents. And get this onto the front page in order to put pressure on politicians to act - before people die.
Governor Cuomo should be ashamed of himself. For too long he has done too little about improving subway safety.
Old, outdated cars, tracks in need of repair, flammable debris on the tracks, poor communication with passengers, inadequate emergency back up devices, etc. These are repairs which must be addressed now - in order to preemptively prevent terrible accidents, injury or loss of life.
The NY Times must do more investigative reporting - in addition - to reporting subway accidents. And get this onto the front page in order to put pressure on politicians to act - before people die.
20
This is terrifying to imagine. Thank goodness it wasn't a worse incident. Every venture out of the house is an increasing risk these days.
3
I'm stunned by how few comments there are here. Thousands of NYers ride the subway and read the Times daily. I think people are understandably worn down. Last summer I left NYC after 28 years. When people ask me why, I simply say, "the F train".
17
I wrote one but they didn't print it. It was a response to Lhota's remark that they needed to "rebuild confidence." I said the obvious, that it was the subway system that needed to be rebuilt, so we could have confidence in it. I ride the subways to work and to everywhere else and feel passionately about this issue.
16
Lots of New Yorkers are so obsorbed in their own lives, they don't care very much until themselves or their friends get injured by this failing subway system, you just never know when that'd happen to you if this governor is allowed to continue his gross negligence of MTA. This self absorbed city needs to change care a little more about the city itself and public safety.
2
Did the same thing. Got so tired for the Lexington Line Crush and the delays after delays. I'm one of the biggest fan boys of public transportation and by the end of the summer it was just too much. People ask why did you leave New York if you loved it so much? Rent and the subway.
4
News flash: nothing will change. We could have a fatal crash every day and nothing would change. No politician gains anything from fixing the subway so they won't. As far as they're concerned New York would be a better city without all the people who rely on it. Bloomberg's and Giuliani's legacies are that New York is a city designed for tourists and wealthy Saudis and Chinese who buy expensive properties and leave them empty. All the people who work in service industries are expected to live in New Jersey and commute two hours to work. As far as Andrew Cuomo is concerned anyone who doesn't own their own property should leave the city. He wants people to die en masse on the subway - the more of them who die, the more likely he'll become president, because the rest of the country hates New Yorkers.
No, I am not exaggerating. This is our country now. Wake up. The system wants you dead.
No, I am not exaggerating. This is our country now. Wake up. The system wants you dead.
17
It's amazing how Cuomo still shamelessly hold on to his position as the governor when MTA has been such a mess and now putting millions of New Yorkers in grave danger and fear in their daily commute. He should have resigned already. But instead, he's feigning ignorance and have not said a word about this accident.
12
As a former railroad (but not subway) official, may I add two comments:
1. Garbage should not be allowed to accumulate on the tracks. It's an obvious safety hazard.
2. An emergency application of the air brakes should not cause a passenger train to derail. It could happen in the case of poor handling of a long freight train with slack action, but not for passenger cars with tight lock couplers.
1. Garbage should not be allowed to accumulate on the tracks. It's an obvious safety hazard.
2. An emergency application of the air brakes should not cause a passenger train to derail. It could happen in the case of poor handling of a long freight train with slack action, but not for passenger cars with tight lock couplers.
32
Would it not be more likely that the emergency brake application was a side effect of the derailment?
7
Most subway systems do not allow food and drink in the stations or in the trains. Apparently that's too big a challenge here!
9
MTA should be privatized.
2
Why is this not on the front page of your website, I mean, you are the "New York" Times, right?
42
$369 Million to repair The South Ferry station from Hurricane Sandy? Something is terribly wrong with this system.
5
Not that there isn't something terribly wrong with the system, because there clearly is. However, it did cost half a billion dollars to build the original revamped South Ferry station pre-Sandy.
And let me tell you, I got to see firsthand the level of damage the South Ferry station suffered as a result of Hurricane Sandy. It was severe. The station was utterly destroyed. The tracks, platform, and mezzanine levels were completely engulfed with water. The salt from the water wreaked havoc on all the new wiring that had been installed which alone would cause replacement costs to skyrocket.
I agree that's a lot of money at the end of the day but I actually think it's nothing short of miraculous that not only is the station ready to come back to life but that the rebuilding came in under what it cost to build it in the first place.
At a moment when the entire system is falling apart, I find this to be terrific news.
And let me tell you, I got to see firsthand the level of damage the South Ferry station suffered as a result of Hurricane Sandy. It was severe. The station was utterly destroyed. The tracks, platform, and mezzanine levels were completely engulfed with water. The salt from the water wreaked havoc on all the new wiring that had been installed which alone would cause replacement costs to skyrocket.
I agree that's a lot of money at the end of the day but I actually think it's nothing short of miraculous that not only is the station ready to come back to life but that the rebuilding came in under what it cost to build it in the first place.
At a moment when the entire system is falling apart, I find this to be terrific news.
13
I was on this train this morning, in one of the middle cars. I thought initially that we had run over something incredibly large--which I guess was the train going off the tracks--and then the car kept going up and down and side to side, like a roller coaster, and the lights went out. After about 10 minutes, there was an announcement, about a power loss that was being investigated, and smoke started entering the car, which was frightening. I feel lucky to have been able to get out through the front cars and walk over to the 1 train to get downtown shortly after. But this was very scary, and I am still upset. A rider for 30+ years, my faith in the MTA is seriously shaken.
47
Motor scooters are catching on in London and all over Paris. Rome they're all over the place. Cheap reliable transportation and the smaller ones get eighty miles a gallon. What's worse getting run over by a bus or taking the IRT?
Or you could move to the Houston area. You can buy a new house starting from 150k and a summer home for half as much and you can commute in your own car.
Or you could move to the Houston area. You can buy a new house starting from 150k and a summer home for half as much and you can commute in your own car.
5
Yeah, but you have to live in Houston.
31
Any large TX city would be preferred over NYC. As a college professor of mine one told me, "there's nobody more provincial than a New Yorker".
1
Says the guy from NJ?
1
The billionaires who live in NYC don't use it so why bother fixing it? Only the very rich matter.
47
No, they just jump into their chauffeured town cars, helicopters and submarines.
1
And privileged pols too..so they can go to the Y and then City Hall.
3
Instead of the majority of the taxes paid by blue-state taxpayers being shunted to the red states, it is long past time for such revenue to be rededicated for a wholesale reconstruction and modernization of the New York City subway system. Red state conservatives and republicans have long shortchanged NYC. Let red staters practice what they preach: let them live out their own austerity, within their own red states and jurisdictions. In the meanwhile, let blue state citizens have the opportunity to rebuild what should have been properly maintained, upgraded and replaced since the 1930s: a subway system that works well for the 21st century.
90
AMEN!!
6
This all seems to have collapsed when Tom Prendergast left MTA after finishing the 2d ave subway, Joe Lhota to the rescue? and then he can run for mayor, sounds like a plan
=
all this chaos coinciding with Mayor DB's incompetent mayoralty,
=
I live a few hundred yards from the 9/11 site, a rain station Cortland street was shut down and is still shut down, 16 years gone by
and the south ferry flood zone has taken five years to rebuild, just now reopening
=
maybe if we had a New York realtor, in DC politics, s/he could help us save ourselves
I am thinking of when Donald Trump got tired of looking at NYC muck about with Wollman ice skating rink, and fixed it, maybe he is not too busy, I hear he is working out of NYC these days, and also his wife and child are not seen much at their 57 st digs
readers?
golf courses, subways, how different can they be?
=
all this chaos coinciding with Mayor DB's incompetent mayoralty,
=
I live a few hundred yards from the 9/11 site, a rain station Cortland street was shut down and is still shut down, 16 years gone by
and the south ferry flood zone has taken five years to rebuild, just now reopening
=
maybe if we had a New York realtor, in DC politics, s/he could help us save ourselves
I am thinking of when Donald Trump got tired of looking at NYC muck about with Wollman ice skating rink, and fixed it, maybe he is not too busy, I hear he is working out of NYC these days, and also his wife and child are not seen much at their 57 st digs
readers?
golf courses, subways, how different can they be?
2
What will happen when all of the new buildings on UWS between 79 and 86 are completed? It's bad enough that so many more people will hit the already crowded streets. How will they possibly fit on the narrow platforms of lines 1,2, &3 during rush hour and other peak times? A horror show in the making.
18
Why was there garbage on the tracks?
12
People toss their trash on the tracks all the time. It accumulates and poof, track fire.
11
Because so many New Yorkers have no sense of civic responsibility and are too lazy to walk over to garbage can.
14
I can almost understand the subway in New York having problems. It is the oldest subway system in America after all, and one of the oldest in the world. There are numerous lines and literally hundreds of stations. Yes, they need to commit more money to maintenance and repairs.
What there is NO EXCUSE for is BART in the San Francisco Bay Area to have similar problems on a similar frequency. BART was built in the 1970's and closes overnight for "maintenance". But they also routinely shut down parts of the system for weekends for "maintenance". There are as many crashes, derailments and fires on BART as there are on the New York Subway. But BART does not allow riders to escape from the trains even when there is a fire in the tunnel, nor will the operators back up into a station that can still be seen from the back cars of the train when the fire is in front of the train. Instead they force riders to stand in jam packed cars as they fill with smoke and wait for two hours before they can proceed to the next station and escape from the smoke filled train. I have breathing issues and anxiety attacks. I have not rode BART since the last time that happened to me, which was the third time it happened within six months. Bart also has some of the highest paid workers of any transit system. So why do they have to defer maintenance until accidents and malfunctions happen?
What there is NO EXCUSE for is BART in the San Francisco Bay Area to have similar problems on a similar frequency. BART was built in the 1970's and closes overnight for "maintenance". But they also routinely shut down parts of the system for weekends for "maintenance". There are as many crashes, derailments and fires on BART as there are on the New York Subway. But BART does not allow riders to escape from the trains even when there is a fire in the tunnel, nor will the operators back up into a station that can still be seen from the back cars of the train when the fire is in front of the train. Instead they force riders to stand in jam packed cars as they fill with smoke and wait for two hours before they can proceed to the next station and escape from the smoke filled train. I have breathing issues and anxiety attacks. I have not rode BART since the last time that happened to me, which was the third time it happened within six months. Bart also has some of the highest paid workers of any transit system. So why do they have to defer maintenance until accidents and malfunctions happen?
6
Boston is the oldest, not NYC. They all have issues, but let's keep facts straight.
11
Yeah but its Boston...
You might be right, but the point is that it is a lot older than BART. It's not like Boston was built in 1852, New York in 1965 and BART in 1975. New York's Subway system is well over 100 years old, as compared to BART's 40 some odd years....
Lets's not zoom in on hairs we can split just to stir the pot,, OK?
Lets's not zoom in on hairs we can split just to stir the pot,, OK?
1
I was on a D train one station behind the A train that crashed. Thank god for the fire department because MTA would have left us there all day --as if two hours wasn't enough. People were screaming, fainting, jumping on the tracks. What should have
been a routine evacuation was frighteningly chaotic and overwhelming. Is there no protocol for such situations? As I was finally freed from the subway all I saw were dozens of first responders but not a single mta employee........
I DEMAND a solution. And that NYC politicians be required to ride the subway. Daily.
been a routine evacuation was frighteningly chaotic and overwhelming. Is there no protocol for such situations? As I was finally freed from the subway all I saw were dozens of first responders but not a single mta employee........
I DEMAND a solution. And that NYC politicians be required to ride the subway. Daily.
66
Yup. Sadly, at times like this, it's often the blind (i.e., MTA personnel) leading the blind (passengers). Most MTA personnel are just robots waiting for their next order to be communicated to them. No one is confident or mature enough to simply step up to the plate and take charge when situations like this occur, but rather, they sit around waiting for 'management' to tell them what to do next. The MTA needs to hire a much higher caliber of management and employees. Go to Tokyo, ride their subway system, and observe how their metro employees conduct themselves. In Japan, the employees consider it a 'privilege' to work for the subway system and to serve you. In NYC, our MTA workers have a smug sense of entitlement, knowing they will never be fired, and most act accordingly.
9
A country awash in money all going to the wrong places!
43
If there's one person I don't trust at all to handle this, it's Joe Lhota. I had nothing but bad impressions of him when he ran for mayor in 2013, and nothing I'm seeing gives me any reason to rethink my view.
6
Seems it's always possible to find money to fix things that break and harder to afford maintenance.
3
I understand how when the third rail is turnoff, the cars lose their primary power. But there should be a system designed (at least in the newer cars) for a basic battery back up that will power a few emergency lights and the PAs in the car. In 2017 that really should not be too difficult to install something like LED emergency lights, for example - bright but with a low power draw.
17
It's all a matter of how much you want to spend.
2
Not so difficult to install a battery backup, new wiring, and LED lights in EVERY single subway car? OK take the afternoon & get 'er done.
1
I'd rather have mine spent on that than building overs done egotistical homages to architects in redesigned stations.
2
How many millions are going toward replacing the Metrocard, which doesn't need fixing, instead of urgent train and track repairs? Could it be that some contractor stands to profit handsomely from a new fare system, while it's harder to skim money from real infrastructure improvement?
46
We all know that the subway needs help. Here's what I haven't read:
- What needs fixing?
- What are the priorities?
- What are the roadblocks, financial and otherwise?
- What are some of the alternatives? Could we upgrade to new systems instead of repairing old ones?
- What would a great public transportation system look like? (High speed rail from Montauk to Trenton; Poughkeepsie to Cape May?)
- What will it take, in terms of financial, political will, and public outcry to get a smoothly functioning system on a par with Tokyo or Shanghai?
- What needs fixing?
- What are the priorities?
- What are the roadblocks, financial and otherwise?
- What are some of the alternatives? Could we upgrade to new systems instead of repairing old ones?
- What would a great public transportation system look like? (High speed rail from Montauk to Trenton; Poughkeepsie to Cape May?)
- What will it take, in terms of financial, political will, and public outcry to get a smoothly functioning system on a par with Tokyo or Shanghai?
34
This purpose of this article is not meant to illustrate that the subway system needs to be updated (although it hints at this), it is only meant to report a major derailment. If you want an article depicting the answers to those questions, look elsewhere, because you obviously did not read the title of the article, which is "Subway Derailment in Manhattan Injures Dozens".
8
On the best of days, rush hour trains are nothing short of crowded cattle cars. Add AC shutdowns, smoke and derailments to the mix and you have a real disaster in the mix. Something more than "this has to be fixed" must be done. I think the governor needs an emergency session of the legislators in Albany to pass a mega funding bill to address all these transportation problems. Because of the age of the systems involved, none of the problems will go away. They will only get worse until we have a 9/11 type of scenario (God forbid).
21
Cuomo say New Yorkers deserve better but his lack of leadership as the person in charge of the MTA is the reason we are in this fix-typical Albany double dealing. He may have hopes for a loftier role beyond being the governor of NY but it is clear he has no idea about priorities.
31
The NYC subway and greater metro area train infrastructure (LIRR, Metro North) is an international embarrassment and the fault lies at the feet of the governor.
Time to do your job, Andrew.
Time to do your job, Andrew.
46
Don't forget NJ Transit. You can broaden the blame there. Why is there still no positive train control in use throughout the metro area? The expanded ferry service from NJ seems good if you want to travel at rush hour, but it is very expensive to take. And I know nothing about the relatively new light rail in NJ. At least the ferries within NYC are the price of the subway and help connect the outer boroughs. It isn't all bad news!
7
Except the ferries have become a joke since the mayor decided to take them over and lower the fare. Trust me, there's no good news there.
1
IRS,
I think we should do better than Andrew.
he said so himself, “New Yorkers deserve better.”
I almost said "anyone else," but these days it could be a trump. that is as vomit inducing as smoke inhalation.
I think we should do better than Andrew.
he said so himself, “New Yorkers deserve better.”
I almost said "anyone else," but these days it could be a trump. that is as vomit inducing as smoke inhalation.
The New York Times needs to aggressively report on the disparity between automobile based infrastructure investment and mass transit. I'm sure I'm not the only one strongly suspects that the per capita disparity is enormous.
Isn't New York City supposed to be the richest city on earth? Aren't we worth better?
Isn't New York City supposed to be the richest city on earth? Aren't we worth better?
41
New York is the greatest city in the world. Or maybe Lagos is greater. But it is up there.
2
Yes, but the Moocher red states keep siphoning off the tax dollars we need to maintain and upgrade our infrastructure.
10
Lynn, the red states siphon away NY state tax dollars? NY makes lots of choices on how it spends - and wastes - its money, and that's not the responsibility of the other 49 states.
1
When is the NY Times going to investigate infrastructure investment per capita in NY State and nationwide for automobile-based projects versus mass transit?
Welcome to public transit in the richest city on Earth.
Welcome to public transit in the richest city on Earth.
16
NY Times, anybody on your staff investigating if any of these recent derailments in NYC a result of cyberterrorism, perhaps in retaliation for the Stuxnet virus? I would think our antiquated system is an easy target.
1
Relax: they have no computers running the subway system, just mechanical switches rom the 1950s.
No problem.
No problem.
13
Try the 1930's!
9
Those are fine. But they do have to be maintained.
1
As I think back on all these recent train issues and accidents, I am becoming really concerned about the amount of people who report having difficulty opening windows and doors so that they can escape.
72
People are getting less physically fit and more incompetent, it's true. Also there's the factor that most people were trying to open windows and doors via an app on their phone.
7
The fire was in the back of the train? And only the front two cars were in the station. Then how was it garbage that started the fire? There wouldn't have been garbage in the tunnel beyond the station. Take some responsibility, MTA.
10
Putting 3 Billion into LaGuardia, OWNED by the Port Authority, sure looks like a good bet by New York State!
What a mess!
Andy"s gotta go!
What a mess!
Andy"s gotta go!
22
I was stuck on a different train on a completely different line for an extra 20-30 minutes this morning during my commute... and I figured it was just another (albeit particularly annoying) day on the MTA.
This is embarrassing. The MTA's budget is almost $15 billion per year, and this is what we get for it. I'm a Democrat in his early 30s, but this is why I'm rapidly losing faith in our government's ability to efficiently and effectively allocate the money we ship their way. God knows how many billions of dollars New York City loses in productivity, every year, while its workforce waits on unmoving subway trains because of "train traffic up ahead" "a signal malfunction" "an earlier incident" "construction" and now derailments. And the worst part is, no one who runs the MTA seems to care until things go horribly wrong. I'm just very glad that no one was killed, electrocuted on the 3rd rail, or attacked by rats on their way out today.
This is embarrassing. The MTA's budget is almost $15 billion per year, and this is what we get for it. I'm a Democrat in his early 30s, but this is why I'm rapidly losing faith in our government's ability to efficiently and effectively allocate the money we ship their way. God knows how many billions of dollars New York City loses in productivity, every year, while its workforce waits on unmoving subway trains because of "train traffic up ahead" "a signal malfunction" "an earlier incident" "construction" and now derailments. And the worst part is, no one who runs the MTA seems to care until things go horribly wrong. I'm just very glad that no one was killed, electrocuted on the 3rd rail, or attacked by rats on their way out today.
25
How much of that $15 billion goes to salaries, raises, bonuses, benefits and pensions? A lot I dare say. Those all have priority over mundane things like improvements.
19
There is still hope for you.
This is such a disgrace. The literal arteries of the city are bursting, and your mayor is nowhere to be found. What could be more important to NYC than this issue? Oh yeah, working out at the Y.
9
Written from the comfort of your Philadelphia town house, sitting in a state
that delivered Donald Trump to the White House? Guess you're right, must be DiBlasio's fault. Are you even aware he has virtually no say in how the MTA is run?
Maybe we should bring the Philadelphia Police force up here to solve the problem.
Burn down a neighborhood or six.
Thanks, Mark for your enlightened perspective.
that delivered Donald Trump to the White House? Guess you're right, must be DiBlasio's fault. Are you even aware he has virtually no say in how the MTA is run?
Maybe we should bring the Philadelphia Police force up here to solve the problem.
Burn down a neighborhood or six.
Thanks, Mark for your enlightened perspective.
9
Rayu, he does get to appoint some members of the MTA board...and he could actually act like a real political leader and do something adult like being a functioning Mayor focusing on real problems rather than arrogantly thinking he's the neatest thing ever to hit City Hall. There's a lot the Mayor could do if he cared enough.
2
What can I say at least our subways run 24 hours.... What does Philadelphia have? A set of staircases run by a fictional character, a high crime rate, sub par police force, and let's not forget a subway system that does not run 24 hours a day nor is it interconnected.
1
Cuomo, de Blasio and all the entire City Council should be required to take the subway everyday for one month. Even for just one week.
80
“There was an announcement of some sort, he said, but he could not make out what was being said.”
Classic. This imho, is the biggest problem facing the MTA: inaudible communications, no communications (both internal - within the system and to/from supervisors to staff, and external – from the MTA as a whole to passengers), or convoluted announcements.
Problems are going to occur now and then, no doubt about it. But it is HOW the MTA handles these problems, that can greatly affect the riders’ experience of same. Far too often it seems none of the MTA workers who may be onsite when a problem occurs…that no one seems to take the initiative to take charge and MANAGE the situation. It seems everyone is too scared to make an executive decision and so must sit around waiting for direction from ‘supervision’. Far too often MTA workers themselves, have NO CLUE what is going on within their own subway system, at any point in time. How is this possible in the year 2017?
Instead of spending money on bells and whistles like WiFi in all stations, or eBooks for passengers, they should be updating ALL communication systems, both internal and external, on all buses, trains, platforms, station corridors, station booths, etc.
How a subway system manages their travel disruptions AS they occur, is what separates truly ‘world-class’ subway systems of the world, from that in NYC.
Classic. This imho, is the biggest problem facing the MTA: inaudible communications, no communications (both internal - within the system and to/from supervisors to staff, and external – from the MTA as a whole to passengers), or convoluted announcements.
Problems are going to occur now and then, no doubt about it. But it is HOW the MTA handles these problems, that can greatly affect the riders’ experience of same. Far too often it seems none of the MTA workers who may be onsite when a problem occurs…that no one seems to take the initiative to take charge and MANAGE the situation. It seems everyone is too scared to make an executive decision and so must sit around waiting for direction from ‘supervision’. Far too often MTA workers themselves, have NO CLUE what is going on within their own subway system, at any point in time. How is this possible in the year 2017?
Instead of spending money on bells and whistles like WiFi in all stations, or eBooks for passengers, they should be updating ALL communication systems, both internal and external, on all buses, trains, platforms, station corridors, station booths, etc.
How a subway system manages their travel disruptions AS they occur, is what separates truly ‘world-class’ subway systems of the world, from that in NYC.
52
I was on the train, but luckily in the first car. There was no way to hear the announcements because the entire train went down - electricity, AC, everything. None of the communication works if there is no electricity. The conductors were going car to car when possible to alert and give updates, but obviously that takes time.
30
If there's no electricity in order to make announcements, then I imagine there is some type of a 'backup' system they can install, in such emergencies?
Also, even if total outage were to explain the lack of information during this particular incident, how to explain all the other incidents where the P/A systems are working fine, but yet passengers are not given the information they need?
Also, even if total outage were to explain the lack of information during this particular incident, how to explain all the other incidents where the P/A systems are working fine, but yet passengers are not given the information they need?
3
There really should be a rudimentary battery system to at least power minimal lights and the PA
9
The express bus isn't much better. And $5.00.
10
Cuomo is no different than any other politician. You don't get your name in the paper and on plaques for funding maintenance. But build a new line (or two) and your name is everywhere. The amount that went into the 2nd Ave line and the 7 extension could have paid for a lot of maintenance and upgrades. I know the system needs to expand to handle the increasing ridership, but money needs to flow into operations as well. The next thing on Cuomo's agenda is a new line to LaGuardia. The express bus works very well, is operational, and far less expensive than a rail connection. And, since the new rail line will still not provide the "single seat" ride to Manhattan, it really isn't an improvement. But it keeps Cuomo's name in the paper.
29
More than an hour to evacuate? Is the MTA subject to minimum safety standards? Seems to me such an unsafe system should be condemned before NY has its own Grenfell.
43
Tax cuts kill!
25
Or is it more properly mismanagement kills!?!
7
Right. That's the answer give government more money since they're so good at effectively managing what they already get.
1
'He said all the injuries were minor. . .34 people were being treated for minor injuries, including smoke inhalation....'
Smoke inhalation is never minor.
And where's the money for infrastructure? Oh, wait. The rich must gather to their collective bossom ALL the money in order to get mental relief assuring them they're not like the rest of us. Never mind.
Smoke inhalation is never minor.
And where's the money for infrastructure? Oh, wait. The rich must gather to their collective bossom ALL the money in order to get mental relief assuring them they're not like the rest of us. Never mind.
52
Not to mention the trauma of the experience, and on a daily basis the lost time and wages that we are all experiencing.
32
I've long said that the communication systems on the subway systems are garbled and impossible to hear! NYC infrastructure is now that of a 3rd world country! Let's fix now before a new major incident!
35
I have lived in New York City for 17 years and I'm just getting to the point of throwing in the towel in frustration, and moving to someplace that is less of a headache to get from point A to point B. Traffic is completely broken in the city, and the subway (dependable even 10 years ago) now is no better - filthy, unreliable, filled with homeless people and panhandlers, always delayed or broken down. And now it seems you might be putting your life at risk riding it.
I have no confidence the government will ever make it better. Any increase in funds will be wasted on administrative bloat and already gold-plated and unsustainable benefits.
I wonder why nobody is talking about privatizing the whole thing. Maybe not the transportation infrastructure, but certainly the stations. I'd be willing to bet the 23rd Street Station in Chelsea brought to you by Google would be squeaky clean with fast Wifi, an if it wasn't, you'd know precisely to whom to direct your complaints. Why not give it a shot?
I have no confidence the government will ever make it better. Any increase in funds will be wasted on administrative bloat and already gold-plated and unsustainable benefits.
I wonder why nobody is talking about privatizing the whole thing. Maybe not the transportation infrastructure, but certainly the stations. I'd be willing to bet the 23rd Street Station in Chelsea brought to you by Google would be squeaky clean with fast Wifi, an if it wasn't, you'd know precisely to whom to direct your complaints. Why not give it a shot?
69
@chris-
The subway started out as a private venture, the IRT and BMT were private companies up until 1941..and they basically drained the subways system of everything they could and left a system that needed a lot of work. Plus would you pay 25 bucks for a ride on the subway, you think Google would run the station out of the goodness of their heart.
On the other hand, a public/private partnership with firms, kind of like they did with the BID, might be interesting, if the corporations and companies who employ people using the subways would be willing to help support it, after all people getting to work late or not at all doesn't help business.
The real problem with the subways has been in the last 25 years NYC has become a place 'to be', it has gone from a population of around 7 million to over 8 thanks to a lot of new building, the subway has gone from 1.5 million riders a day in the 1970's to 6 million today, and very little has been done to improve it, the signal system is ancient, and while not as bad as the 1970's, it is bursting at the seams. One of the problems is with all the wealth in NYC, the city and State have starved the subway of funding in part thanks to tax breaks for upscale real estate development, not to mention Cuomo siphoning money from NYC to use upstate to basically buy votes with this 'business attraction tax breaks' and the like.
The subway started out as a private venture, the IRT and BMT were private companies up until 1941..and they basically drained the subways system of everything they could and left a system that needed a lot of work. Plus would you pay 25 bucks for a ride on the subway, you think Google would run the station out of the goodness of their heart.
On the other hand, a public/private partnership with firms, kind of like they did with the BID, might be interesting, if the corporations and companies who employ people using the subways would be willing to help support it, after all people getting to work late or not at all doesn't help business.
The real problem with the subways has been in the last 25 years NYC has become a place 'to be', it has gone from a population of around 7 million to over 8 thanks to a lot of new building, the subway has gone from 1.5 million riders a day in the 1970's to 6 million today, and very little has been done to improve it, the signal system is ancient, and while not as bad as the 1970's, it is bursting at the seams. One of the problems is with all the wealth in NYC, the city and State have starved the subway of funding in part thanks to tax breaks for upscale real estate development, not to mention Cuomo siphoning money from NYC to use upstate to basically buy votes with this 'business attraction tax breaks' and the like.
46
The idea that services are better when privately run is not necessarily supported by experience. Private prisons come to mind.
22
"I wonder why nobody is talking about privatizing the whole thing."
When was the last time anyone voted for a fare increase? Most transit systems operate on a public-private basis in order to subsidize transportation. Do you want to see more private roads too? How about private sidewalks? You can tap on and tap off when you need to walk someplace.
The problem is the MTA needs a major overhaul and no one wants to fork over the cash to pay for it. Also, shutting down subway service for construction isn't exactly popular. Finally, Comcast is an entirely private entity. They clearly have an excellent reputation for stellar high-speed internet with impeccable customer service. There are absolutely no problems with Comcast's administration of public communications what so ever. Give me a break.
When was the last time anyone voted for a fare increase? Most transit systems operate on a public-private basis in order to subsidize transportation. Do you want to see more private roads too? How about private sidewalks? You can tap on and tap off when you need to walk someplace.
The problem is the MTA needs a major overhaul and no one wants to fork over the cash to pay for it. Also, shutting down subway service for construction isn't exactly popular. Finally, Comcast is an entirely private entity. They clearly have an excellent reputation for stellar high-speed internet with impeccable customer service. There are absolutely no problems with Comcast's administration of public communications what so ever. Give me a break.
9
After much political ns, it has been revealed Governor Cuomo, $4 billion worth, and Mayor deBlasio, $2 billion worth, are responsible for the sad state of the subways
2
don;t worry...railway needs repair but be confident your politicians are being paid..
9
This is what happens when half of our income taxes go to the Pentagon.
61
Amazing how many recommendations the original post gets even though it's false!
2
Peter, that is not true.
Look it up. The Pentagon takes up more than half of discretionary spending.
1
I was on the second-to-last car on the train. It was truly scary not knowing what was happening in the moment. One moment there was a bang, lights flickered out, we saw a flash, and smelled smoke. People screamed and headed to the back of the car, then there were others breaking the rear window and forcing open a door. There were no announcements of any kind. In this situation, it is imperative for everyone's safety that the conductor make an announcement immediately to stay calm and alert, to shelter in place, and to await further instruction. It is truly terrifying being stuck in a subway tunnel after some kind of collision with no connectivity to the outside world, smelling smoke, and not knowing what is happening.
126
Thanks for the first-hand report. I find the prospect of being in your situation truly scary.
7
Shelter in place is not always the best strategy. I won't mention the examples that come to mind. Staying calm is essential though.
4
The latest (2:10 PM) from the MTA:
Due to a derailment at 125 St the following service changes are in effect:
There is no A train service between 59 St-Columbus and 168 St in both directions.
There is shuttle A train service between 168 St and Inwood-207 St in both directions.
A trains are running local in Brooklyn and between Canal St and 59 St in both directions.
There is free shuttle bus service operating between 59 St-Columbus Circle and 145 St in both directions.
B train service is suspended between Brighton Beach and 145 St in both directions.
C train service is suspended between Euclid Av and 168 St in both directions.
There is no D train service between 59 St-Columbus Circle and 161 St-Yankee Stadium in both directions.
There is shuttle D train service between 161 St-Yankee Stadium and Norwood-205 St in both directions.
Some northbound F trains are running on the G line from Bergen St to Court Sq then via E line to Jackson Hts-Roosevelt Av.
Some Forest Hills bound M trains are terminating at Essex St.
Expect delays in A, B, C, D, E, F and M train service.
Due to a derailment at 125 St the following service changes are in effect:
There is no A train service between 59 St-Columbus and 168 St in both directions.
There is shuttle A train service between 168 St and Inwood-207 St in both directions.
A trains are running local in Brooklyn and between Canal St and 59 St in both directions.
There is free shuttle bus service operating between 59 St-Columbus Circle and 145 St in both directions.
B train service is suspended between Brighton Beach and 145 St in both directions.
C train service is suspended between Euclid Av and 168 St in both directions.
There is no D train service between 59 St-Columbus Circle and 161 St-Yankee Stadium in both directions.
There is shuttle D train service between 161 St-Yankee Stadium and Norwood-205 St in both directions.
Some northbound F trains are running on the G line from Bergen St to Court Sq then via E line to Jackson Hts-Roosevelt Av.
Some Forest Hills bound M trains are terminating at Essex St.
Expect delays in A, B, C, D, E, F and M train service.
9
Will pulling the emergency brake become a new avenue for terrorism?
3
Improvement of the announcement/speaker systems is also key. I mean come on, this country makes some of the best bluetooth speakers and you can't hear what the conductor is saying half the time. Gimme a break this is not rocket science.
1
Start with cleaning the garbage from alongside the tracks. It causes fires.
Then try cleaning the garbage from Albany. Order breaks down amid corruption.
Then try cleaning the garbage from Albany. Order breaks down amid corruption.
31
The voters can do that easily...just don't vote to reelect people like Cuomo (or DeBlasio for that matter) and expect anything different.
6
The subway system is a massive inconvenience at best and dangerous at its worst as evidenced today. Unless the business and real estate interests think the city can make do with system as is its time for them to get together like they did in the late 1970's and demand something be done about it. After all, the rich and powerful are the only one's who can get the governor's attention and make no mistake about it, the condition of the subway system is fault, and lip service is not enough. The "contest' his office is running to come-up with a solution is a pathetic joke.
9
Why is this not on the front page of the site under Breaking News with updates. This affects many of the actual readers of the New York Times and people who live in NYC affecting riders all over the city. How many people read the NYTimes on the ACDB trains? Public Editor?
102
Just because you read it NOW doesn't mean it's breaking news. The event happened hours ago and the story has been published for hours.
Even then it was way down the front page on the web.
2
NY Times does not view itself primarily as a local paper, I would imagine.
3
Trump wants to give billions more to the US Military but those soldiers and sailors should be warned against using America's infrastructure when they return home from service. Stay out of the subways, stay off the highways, don't use American airports, tunnels or bridges. Be careful when you walk on a sidewalk or go into a park for recreation. Above all, stay only on the lowest floors of a high-rise. Isn't America listening the creaking of the whole thing as it readies to collapse? As long as the lawns of suburbia are green and clipped, who cares.
17
The highways do get fixed, as those people with the lawns of suburbia use them.
6
We've had one clown after another running the MTA...not to mention a completely dysfunctional Legislature. Maybe it's time to organize a march in front of MTA headquarters...the "March for a Functioning Transit System"....get half a million or so transit riders to show up...that may get these clueless bureaucrats and politicians to understand the seriousness of our broken transit system.
15
Commercial and residential property prices are up ~500% in twenty years, but our city's infrastructure -- subways especially -- is decrepit and crumbling, and "there's no money" to fix it.
This is disgraceful
This is disgraceful
44
Perhaps our intrepid reporters could ask the MTA Chairman for *evidence* that an emergency brake application caused the derailment (rather than vice versa), and then *why* an emergency brake application *would* cause a derailment.
25
This is just tremendously sad. Our (once??) really great city is crumbling. What's next building in Central Park? No movies? Nothing? How can we be regressing like this?? 1970 here we come. The pain is so real.
Somehow the people in leadership must step up to work on building something else besides huge towers, mega million housing developments and bike lanes. Please!
Somehow the people in leadership must step up to work on building something else besides huge towers, mega million housing developments and bike lanes. Please!
20
Not sure bike lanes are the villain, here.
You find them in every civilized city in the world.
You find them in every civilized city in the world.
My point exactly. This is no longer civilized city. RIP NYC.
Cuomo has held off on these repairs and WILL NEVER get my vote for any national office unless he seriously steps this repair/upgrade process up. I wasn't involved in the derailment today, but my regular ride took double the time because of yet another (unrelated) power outage. I'm going to move out of the city and out of the state if this keeps up. I've already stopped considering jobs below Soho, because commuting is so brutal.
15
Frankly, even if he did do something about these issues, I think the notion of Cuomo running for national office is comical.
3
You state "the emergency brake has been activated"
Did someone pull the cord? We assume this will be considered.
Did someone pull the cord? We assume this will be considered.
3
That Joe Lhota is now on the job has for the first time caused me to feel hopeful regarding the subway system. He knows what he is doing. I pray the other officials involved give him what he needs to do the job, including the money!
9
If you think Joe Lhota is the answer to mass transit woes here or anywhere else, you may deserve to get stuck on an A train.
1
Why are emergency brakes even an option for passengers?? The only time i've seen anyone pull one is in a cartoon.
9
minor injuries, including smoke inhalation.
Smoke inhalation for me could mean death. Anyone that has asthma, bronchitis, COPD, etc. knows what I am talking about. It is NOT minor.
Smoke inhalation for me could mean death. Anyone that has asthma, bronchitis, COPD, etc. knows what I am talking about. It is NOT minor.
27
I was in this train today. It was the worst experience of my life. We hit the wall multiple times and the door next to me ripped out. At some point I thought that I am going to suffocate because of smoke and dust. I could have got killed today just because I wanted to go to work! I have recorded 10 minuets of video when we were stuck in the train. If somebody is going to sue the city you can count on me.
100
@Keyvan Chamani - I don't know why you'd sue the city over this. The MTA is a state-controlled agency.
7
I mean suing whoever is responsible. I am not a lawyer.
4
I'm glad you are OK, relatively speaking.
I did not know about the derailment and waited for a long time for a C train at the end of my work day. Finally I googled MTA alerts and was astonished that no C trains were running along with various other issues. Not one single announcement from the MTA over the speaker system about any issue at all. I've always walked faster than MTA buses. Now, I walk faster than the trains.
24
I escaped from New York in 1963, and it appears subway commuting has not changed one whit. How many of these incidents will take place before any changes are made?
5
Trump's healthcare and the NYC subway system have something in common. Neither receives much money (or in the case of Trump healthcare money is being taken away) as both serve less well-heeled constituents. True there are economically stronger individuals who use the NYC subway, but the majority who rely on the rails are those who cannot afford taxis, users, and car services.
16
The richest city in the richest country not only in the world, but in the history of the world. And it cannot afford to keep its most important transit system operating.
Just think about that for a minute. And in this comment thread, everyone who suggests spending more money is met with "Whose taxes shall we raise to pay for it? " (To be fair, this comment comes from San Francisco, the second richest city in that same country, another city with failed transit systems.)
Oh, nobody's taxes I guess. We'll just have to allow New York City to grind to a halt.
Just think about that for a minute. And in this comment thread, everyone who suggests spending more money is met with "Whose taxes shall we raise to pay for it? " (To be fair, this comment comes from San Francisco, the second richest city in that same country, another city with failed transit systems.)
Oh, nobody's taxes I guess. We'll just have to allow New York City to grind to a halt.
48
I get your point, but the USA is not the richest country in the world. Not even top-10.
7
I wish someone would write a book about how other countries do it. Is it just higher taxes, or are there other factors? There are countries much smaller in population than the US that are able to provide universal health care, free or low cost university education, public transit that works, etc. How, why do they do it?
13
Love this comment!
2
Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who controls the subway system, has vowed to take emergency action to improve the system after it became clear that its antiquated infrastructure was failing.
Joseph de Maistre
Every nation gets the government it deserves.
Joseph-Marie, comte de Maistre (1 April 1753 – 26 February 1821) was a Savoyard lawyer, diplomat, writer, and philosopher.
Joseph de Maistre
Every nation gets the government it deserves.
Joseph-Marie, comte de Maistre (1 April 1753 – 26 February 1821) was a Savoyard lawyer, diplomat, writer, and philosopher.
8
I get the SMS alerts that the MTA provides for the A line because I typically ride it, and the one I got about this incident just said there was an "investigation" and trains were running "with delays." That was at 9:50 AM, about 5 minutes after the incident. My alert window goes until 10 AM, so I didn't get to see how long it took until the alerts switched to saying there was a serious issue, but in my experience you almost never get a service disruption notification in time to actually avoid taking a particular train.
Thankfully, I have the option to work from home, and have been doing so more and more as I see the delays mount up due to signal problems and other symptoms of poor infrastructure. I don't think a single day goes by now when I don't get alerts about delays on the A line, both during the morning and the evening commute.
Now, a significant portion of uptown commuters will all be piling on to the 1,2,3 trains, which are already pretty overcrowded most of the time, while the A tracks are fixed... Just can't believe this is the best we can do considering how many New Yorkers depend on subway service to get pretty much everywhere we go.
Thankfully, I have the option to work from home, and have been doing so more and more as I see the delays mount up due to signal problems and other symptoms of poor infrastructure. I don't think a single day goes by now when I don't get alerts about delays on the A line, both during the morning and the evening commute.
Now, a significant portion of uptown commuters will all be piling on to the 1,2,3 trains, which are already pretty overcrowded most of the time, while the A tracks are fixed... Just can't believe this is the best we can do considering how many New Yorkers depend on subway service to get pretty much everywhere we go.
24
There was also an unrelated power outage today, and no mass transit disruption went out, even though it affected about seven train lines. Absurd. I'm so angry.
Well, Mr Lhota, the trains on the A line are about a 50 years old (among the oldest on the entire system) and have passenger-activated emergency brakes. Surely you should know that considering your history with the MTA.
It is rather alarming if indeed the activation of the emergency brake is what caused the train to derail. An emergency brake that itself causes an emergency? Only on the decrepit NYC Subway!
It is rather alarming if indeed the activation of the emergency brake is what caused the train to derail. An emergency brake that itself causes an emergency? Only on the decrepit NYC Subway!
22
New York City should seriously rethink taxing real estate transactions over let's say 2.5 millions for non residents as well as bringing back the commuter tax. A lot of people come to the city to use its infrastructure from toilets to subways to streets (when driving). It's time to wake up and start realizing that nothing is free or that lower taxes will fix a problem.
73
Well said and about time. Every time I come out at 59th and Columbus my stomach turns as I look up at Trump Towers and think of all the tax dodging criminals that live in 20 million dollars apartments - excuse me, they do not actually live in them. These folks have been allowed to destroy the NYC skyline and contribute NOTHING!
My toddler and I were somewhere in the middle of the train and the lights went out as the body of the train started jumping. There were a few big jolts before the one that threw us into the center of the car. Smoke came in soon after. People were trying to pry side doors open but couldn't. The conductor(?) made one announcement - that they were investigating- but did not tell us what to do about the increasing smoke. People in our car were in distress but calm. As soon as the train came to a stop, people called out to ask if my baby was okay and very helpful to each other.
152
Thank you for your first-hand report. I am glad you are doing OK, it seems.
2
The Times multiple times in this article refers to the derailment as an "accident," which implies that nobody is at fault, and the incident was entirely unforeseeable and unpreventable.
On the contrary, this is exactly what one can expect with years of neglect. We have antiquated subway infrastructure and ever-increasing demand. This was no accident, this was a preventable derailment, and the blame falls at the feet of Governor Cuomo, who controls the MTA.
On the contrary, this is exactly what one can expect with years of neglect. We have antiquated subway infrastructure and ever-increasing demand. This was no accident, this was a preventable derailment, and the blame falls at the feet of Governor Cuomo, who controls the MTA.
64
I was on that very train this morning. I happened to be in a middle car. I felt the jolt of the brakes and figured someone had pulled the emergency brake. I didn't know cars further back had derailed or crashed but after about five minutes, a conductor had come through and led everyone off the train. That's when we saw the smoke from behind us in the cars in the back. Everyone that I saw was calm and reacted just as they should to the instructions of the conductor. I'm sorry to hear others were hurt on this train.
84
Airplane crews must evacuate passengers in 90-seconds. More than that and people die, 90-seconds max. It doesn't appear from this case with the A-Train derailment at 125th Street, that there was any such plan in operation. One more item for the punch-list for Mr. Lhota is to implement exit strategies that are actionable with the current infrastructure and car design. If not, upgrade car design and infrastructure so timely evacuation can be accomplished.
65
Sounds great. Whose taxes shall we raise to pay for it? I suggest a 90 cent tax on all income over a million bucks annually.
23
Not as much jet fuel on a subway car.
How about everyone who makes over 100k, which includes me. I've lived in this city my entire life and I really hate that the subway system I rely on is falling apart. Let me pay for this too.
7
I was on downtown A train last week around 1 pm that was emitting a strong burning odor from underneath last car (the one I was in). I rode it several stops, thinking the smell was in the tunnel, but when I realized it was the train itself I exited at 145. Another passenger alerted the conductor, who shrugged it off. The two of us waited for the next train. I imagined a scenario just like the one that happened today and decided to risk being late for a meeting. It doesn't exactly give you confidence in the safety of the trains or the judgement of the MTA.
40
The infrastructure systems throughout the country: rail, subway, gas lines, electricity, bridges, tunnels - you name it - they are all more than antiquated and rarely if ever maintained. Lucky this time all survived. That's the price the public pays when privatization is not interested in maintenance, as it cuts into the bottom line - PROFITS!
33
@Oma,
The NYC transportation system is 100% public paid for by NY City and State and its riders with almost no money from the Federal government. Everywhere else in the developed world the national government helps pay for the transportation systems.
The NYC transportation system is 100% public paid for by NY City and State and its riders with almost no money from the Federal government. Everywhere else in the developed world the national government helps pay for the transportation systems.
99
Right. So can we raise taxes on the wealthy (say 90% on annual income over $1M, like under Ike) to get it done?
22
The NYC Subways are not privatized, they are wholly paid for by tax dollars and rider fares.
10
I was in the first car of the train that derailed. To the best of my knowledge it was an older train model that would have allowed for a passenger to pull the brake. For us the experience was a quick jolt, at the same time that the lights went out, right as we pulled into the 125th St. station. I was standing and would have fallen if my grip hadn't been two-handed. The driver's cab soon opened and one man made sure we were OK while the other radioed to HQ. This first man then immediately opened a door of the car and let us out. I then went to the uptown platform where a D and a B were sitting in the station with doors open, as I hoped to take one of them home. After a few more minutes another passenger poked her head in the car and yelled "the train is on fire!" in Spanish. I got out, saw smoke pouring from the front area of the station, and left. As I left to walk 30 blocks home, several fire engines were arriving. I can back up Mr. Bridge's comments that in these first 15-20 minutes after the accident, nobody from the MTA (aside from the employee on the train, who was very professional) made any announcements about train activity or showed any proactivity in attempting to turn passengers away before they paid for their rides at the turnstiles.
239
The MTA never turns people away. Remember that huge power outage? I was stranded on a train for two hours, and finally evacuated. The MTA was still letting people pay and go into the station where the TRAIN WAS NO LONGER RUNNING.
19
Unacceptable
1
I think a lot of people who ride the trains don't understand how the emergency brake functions.
Once pulled, it brings the rain to an immediate stop, throwing down a physical brake under the train that must be manually re-set. It takes 20 minuted to re-set the brake under the best circumstance. The emergency brake cord should never be pulled except in case of extreme emergency, such as a person on the tracks.
Perhaps more info should be posted system wide about this and related train issues.
ps - as part of a film job in the 90s, I had to take the NYC Subway track safety course, where we learned all the signage displayed in the stations and tunnels, saw gruesome images of folks who touched the third rail, learned how to walk the tracks and how to safely let the trains pass, what the red & white stripes and blue lights signify..and all sorts of useful miscellaneous subway. I recommend it if the opportunity comes your way.
Once pulled, it brings the rain to an immediate stop, throwing down a physical brake under the train that must be manually re-set. It takes 20 minuted to re-set the brake under the best circumstance. The emergency brake cord should never be pulled except in case of extreme emergency, such as a person on the tracks.
Perhaps more info should be posted system wide about this and related train issues.
ps - as part of a film job in the 90s, I had to take the NYC Subway track safety course, where we learned all the signage displayed in the stations and tunnels, saw gruesome images of folks who touched the third rail, learned how to walk the tracks and how to safely let the trains pass, what the red & white stripes and blue lights signify..and all sorts of useful miscellaneous subway. I recommend it if the opportunity comes your way.
48
The emergency brake should only be pulled when: someone on the platform is being dragged by the train, someone is riding outside the train, someone has fallen between cars.
It takes 30 seconds to reset/recharge the brakes but the train operator must find out why the brakes were applied. That can take awhile.
It takes 30 seconds to reset/recharge the brakes but the train operator must find out why the brakes were applied. That can take awhile.
22
It doesn't take 20 minutes to reset. It's reset manually by opening one if the swing sash panels located below the cord. The train can not recharge for 17 seconds. This wasn't a cord being pulled. It derailed. Either something was on the track, the train was going faster than the posted speed (if posted) or it split a switch.
15
For what it’s worth, I’ve been on an A train where a passenger pulled the emergency break. The train slowly rolled to a stop and the conductor immediately announced that the emergency break had been activated. (There were certainly no fires or doors flying off – very hard to believe activating the break alone would cause all that.)
We were then stopped for 45 minutes while the conductor went from car to car trying to figure out where the break had been pulled in order to reset it. Everyone seemed surprised to learn that the conductor wouldn’t immediately know in which car it had been activated. Once located, the actual resetting didn’t take very long.
The person who pulled the brake was well-intentioned and trying to help a passenger who was having a heart attack, but clearly only delayed him from getting medical attention. But, particularly when under stress, it’s easy to see people thinking it’s an “in case of emergency” cord and pulling it to try to get the conductor’s attention. The signage is terrible and there are no intercoms on those old trains. Clearly an education campaign about when to use the emergency break as well as equipment upgrades are seriously needed.
Also, being locked in the car and unable to have someone go find the conductor impeded the whole process, too.
Hopefully the Governor’s office and the MTA are reading these comments? Otherwise do NYC residents have to start protests about the state of our public transportation?
We were then stopped for 45 minutes while the conductor went from car to car trying to figure out where the break had been pulled in order to reset it. Everyone seemed surprised to learn that the conductor wouldn’t immediately know in which car it had been activated. Once located, the actual resetting didn’t take very long.
The person who pulled the brake was well-intentioned and trying to help a passenger who was having a heart attack, but clearly only delayed him from getting medical attention. But, particularly when under stress, it’s easy to see people thinking it’s an “in case of emergency” cord and pulling it to try to get the conductor’s attention. The signage is terrible and there are no intercoms on those old trains. Clearly an education campaign about when to use the emergency break as well as equipment upgrades are seriously needed.
Also, being locked in the car and unable to have someone go find the conductor impeded the whole process, too.
Hopefully the Governor’s office and the MTA are reading these comments? Otherwise do NYC residents have to start protests about the state of our public transportation?
22
Reading these stories about a subway system that is falling apart here, and another flailing subway system in D.C. (have lots of friends down there who complain endlessly), I fondly recall my 6 months in Beijing, China.
It was nice--the subways, though extremely crowded, always ran on time. The crowds were to expected since Beijing is growing by leaps and bounds as rural Chinese residents flood the city for economic opportunity. Who would guess that the authorities there actually take rider growth into account!
There were no delays, as far as I can recall. The stations were clean, very nicely lit, even had barriers in the newer stations (which was like 80% of the system) so that people waiting on the platforms were not inadvertently pushed into the tracks. The Chinese authorities could afford to do that! No harrowing stories of "subway heroes" leaping into the tracks to save some hapless victim.
During the few months I lived there in late 2012, the Chinese had opened 3 new stations and expanded a line roughly the length of the 2nd Avenue subway line underneath a very crowded part of Beijing, linking one heavily trafficked line to a major train station (which was also under heavy scaffolding when I used it). It was a lovely, soaring station, the antithesis of Penn Station.
Compare that to NYC--it took all 100 years to get that one 2nd Avenue subway extension to come to fruition. 6 months vs 100 years.
The Chinese will eat us alive at the rate we're going...
It was nice--the subways, though extremely crowded, always ran on time. The crowds were to expected since Beijing is growing by leaps and bounds as rural Chinese residents flood the city for economic opportunity. Who would guess that the authorities there actually take rider growth into account!
There were no delays, as far as I can recall. The stations were clean, very nicely lit, even had barriers in the newer stations (which was like 80% of the system) so that people waiting on the platforms were not inadvertently pushed into the tracks. The Chinese authorities could afford to do that! No harrowing stories of "subway heroes" leaping into the tracks to save some hapless victim.
During the few months I lived there in late 2012, the Chinese had opened 3 new stations and expanded a line roughly the length of the 2nd Avenue subway line underneath a very crowded part of Beijing, linking one heavily trafficked line to a major train station (which was also under heavy scaffolding when I used it). It was a lovely, soaring station, the antithesis of Penn Station.
Compare that to NYC--it took all 100 years to get that one 2nd Avenue subway extension to come to fruition. 6 months vs 100 years.
The Chinese will eat us alive at the rate we're going...
130
Central planning and adequate government funds. Hey, why didn't we think of that?
19
Dictatorships are more efficient. Always. They do have other disadvantages.
10
Nice to know the trains run on time. Pity about the vicious kleptocratic government that abuses and murders dissidents while enriching itself and intimidating its neighbors.
As for the speed with which Chinese infrastructure is built, when you can re-write - or ignore - laws and/or property deeds and disregard such public opinion as exists, you can get a lot of things done!
Just ask Xi. Or Hitler.
As for the speed with which Chinese infrastructure is built, when you can re-write - or ignore - laws and/or property deeds and disregard such public opinion as exists, you can get a lot of things done!
Just ask Xi. Or Hitler.
My heart goes out to all those that were injured and to those who suffered through the incident. I lived in New York City for thirteen years before moving to Colorado. One of the main reasons I moved out of the City was because of the subway system. It's clearly a hazard: The PA system on the trains (even the new-ish trains) are totally inadequate; There is no clear instruction on what to do in the event of an emergency; And the trains are so packed that even if there were clear instructions, there would be serious delays and issues in any kind of evacuation. I still have friends and family that live in the City. I hope the new MTA leader can figure out how to make the subways safer.
28
You would think after 9/11, we'd have figured out that we need a good system to deal with train emergencies, but the announcements are still completely inaudible.
8
We have Two Senators one in a Leadership position we need Federal Dollars for larger Capital Budgets in the seventies the system was starved in the nineties nickeled and dimed city money state money not enough alone if they can do it in London why not here perhaps they will take us back as a colony.
24
I was on the train that derailed, although in the front of it (third car). Definitely heard the air brake go sharply then the train stopped and the lights went out. After about 8 minutes the conductor made an announcement that the train crew was going to make its way through the cars to investigate the cause of the stop. I wanted to make that point as the quote in the article from the professor suggests that there was no announcement. Then about 5 minutes after that announcement, train crew came into the car I was in from the 4th car and said we could get out through the connecting car doors, and we walked through until we got off at the platform.
No announcements at first at the platform though and they were letting people swipe in still. I feel that the MTA never has a good idea of being proactive in these events (either that or the riddles they tend to communicate with riders - the all encompassing "train traffic") is how they also communicate with station operatives.
No announcements at first at the platform though and they were letting people swipe in still. I feel that the MTA never has a good idea of being proactive in these events (either that or the riddles they tend to communicate with riders - the all encompassing "train traffic") is how they also communicate with station operatives.
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Many A-train cars have barely audible or completely non-functioning PA systems, so it's likely some people indeed did not hear any announcement
22
Agree with you in general however there was no noise other than people talking in the cars, and when the conductor began to spoke, in my car at least, everyone shushed. So unless the whole system in a car was totally broken and mute, there would have been some audible sound.
5
A loud noise could also be metal hitting the third rail or the electrified parts under the train. Much louder than the brakes.
3
That's an older train an R-46. The passengers can activate the emergency brake between stations. But would that alone derail a train? Unlikely. A derailment would certainly raise a lot of dust and there would be a smell of scorched brake pads.
The MTA/NYCTA has to better train its crews to allay passenger panic in situations like this.
The MTA/NYCTA has to better train its crews to allay passenger panic in situations like this.
34
I am sure the injuries suffered weren't that "minor" to those who were hurt.
67
Why does the MTA have so much money for ad campaigns, robot announcements, and cosmetic upgrades to stations in wealthy zip codes, and so little for effective maintenance?
221
Not to mention the new MTA E-Library. So we can have good reading material while the train jumps off the track.
13
Because those things are way, way less expensive than real system maintenance. They need a modern signal system, and no one is willing to pay for it. Cuomo wants something he can put his name on.
9
Not to mention system-wide WiFi for folks who can't bear to take a break from their smartphones.
Lhota is displaying a dangerous level of ignorance in his comments. Really, the smoke and fire in a major derailment was caused by garbage on the tracks and not, say, damaged electrical parts and track ties as the train smashed into the tunnel wall? The MTA can't blame everything on its customers.
As for the emergency brake, any MTA head who knew his stuff would know that all A trains use older subway cars with pull-chain brakes (largely because of delays in ordering new equipment). The C uses a mix of old and new trains, but no new-model subway car has ever run on the A. The social media photos confirm this.
As for the emergency brake, any MTA head who knew his stuff would know that all A trains use older subway cars with pull-chain brakes (largely because of delays in ordering new equipment). The C uses a mix of old and new trains, but no new-model subway car has ever run on the A. The social media photos confirm this.
71
I agree about your first paragraph.
However, that is not true about the A trains; I frequently ride the ones with the orange seats- mostly those in fact- I never see the A trains as the older ones. The old ones are the C trains
However, that is not true about the A trains; I frequently ride the ones with the orange seats- mostly those in fact- I never see the A trains as the older ones. The old ones are the C trains
10
The MTA can't blame everything on its customers. = i agree
12
By "older" I meant the R-46 subway cars from the mid-1970s used on the A. The C uses trains that are positively ancient, from the 1960s, mixed in with newer R160s that are less than ten years old.
13
This is what happens when the Governor plays politics trying to score points against the Mayor. Also, if the millions of taxpayer dollars Bloomberg spent on his bike lane boondoggle and idiotic parking spaces in the middle of every avenue - a move that has further congested NYC traffic, wasting petroleum thereby creating more pollution, and decreasing productivity by costing people time - had been spent on fixing our pitiful subway system - ALL of the problems he was supposedly addressing would have been solved. You don't make life so miserable above ground that people become willing to go underground to a failing system. That's backward. Updated subways would have increased ridership. We are being held hostage by politics from every conceivable direction...
70
Nice, blame bicyclists for the city's problems. Would you rather that the city's cyclists crowd the subways, buses and roads further? I so far have taken close 800 rides on Citibikes and they are not joyrides--I am using them for transportation, doing my part to make subways and road traffic less crowded, not more crowded. Bicyclists are taxpayers too and have every right to safe passage.
144
Bike lanes remove pressure from existing infrastructure by providing a clean, quick, and space-efficient alternative mode of transportation.
Crusade against cars and Cuomo all you want, but bikes are on your side.
Disclaimer: I don't ride a bike because I don't feel safe riding one, but I absolutely would if the bike infrastructure was better.
Crusade against cars and Cuomo all you want, but bikes are on your side.
Disclaimer: I don't ride a bike because I don't feel safe riding one, but I absolutely would if the bike infrastructure was better.
42
@Sharon - there's no legitimate reason you should be driving a car in Manhattan. It's a luxury. Bicyclists outnumber car commuters and the city should be more accommodating to them. Think about how many millions were spent accommodating car traffic on streets, and you'll realize that the amount spent on bike lanes is actually trivial. I own a car and believe there should be less parking spaces and advocate a congestion tax for vehicles. Manhattan is a shared resource amongst all New Yorkers and accordingly should be proportioned appropriately to their share. Pedestrians and commuters should be the priority since they make up the bulk of the people, then delivery trucks, then car drivers.
36
thank goodness all the billionaires who live in NYC do not ride the subway and I do not have to worry about them getting stuck underground.
229
Actually I know and have personally met a couple of them who DO use the subway!
Time of accident, NYT? Many of your readers will want to know this.
83
It was at 9:38 am. Dating from a cell phone call I made from the train almost immediately afterward.
11
Just before 10am.
2
10am. Fourth paragraph.
1
As the US's infrastructure continues to fail us, so will our economy. My wife and I are both (well-paid) professionals, and right now, we struggle to commute between two cities on the East Coast. The infrastructure is so poor both between cities and within cities, that we will probably end up taking our money, education and skills to a modern country. We are learning languages now in preparation to immigrate.
212
You can use your English in Canada (outside of Quebec).
What other modern country are you considering, and what are their immigration rules?
Good luck gaining work permits - it's 2017, not 1907...
What other modern country are you considering, and what are their immigration rules?
Good luck gaining work permits - it's 2017, not 1907...
24
I suggest the Netherlands, Belgium, or France. My husband and I just got back from a trip where we traveled from Amsterdam to Brussels in 1 1/2 hours, Brussels to Paris in 1 1/2 hours, and back from Paris to Amsterdam in 3 hours. The trains are clean, on time, and safe, and the train stations are lovely. We also rode the Metro in Paris and Brussels--similarly great, and a cool tram in the Netherlands. I did miss the smell of Turkish cigarettes in the Paris Metro, such a fixture of the Metro in the sixties, though probably not missed by current riders.
8
Also thinking about that! I moved to Manhattan from North Jersey a couple years ago partly because of how unbearable and unreliable NJ Transit has gotten over the past few years, and 125th Street happens to be my local station. Now one can't even rely on a stable commute via mass transit within the city due to MTA woes. I rely on a bicycle for all commutes now, though not everyone can. But I'm studying German and French on Duolingo, because the thought is indeed crossing my mind that maybe there are more civilized countries out there that can better utilize my skills...
6
So from info provided here, the front car of the train was in the station but the doors between the cars remained locked. Why? Why were these people trapped unnecessarily?
73
The R46 subway cars used on the A line are 75 feet long. The gap between cars is too wide unlike the 60 foot cars which can be travelled from car to car more safely. Therefore, cars are locked for safety.
10
To remind them that they are poor, of course. Sarcasm aside, this country is not kind to poor people, compared to other developed countries.
14
It has nothing to do with poverty. The cars on the A line are so constructed as to make walking between them dangerous, as well as preventing "showtime" from bothering more than one car at a time.
MTA has ordered cars with "accordion" connections between them, so we can all participate in the fights that break out as well as showtime.
MTA has ordered cars with "accordion" connections between them, so we can all participate in the fights that break out as well as showtime.
12
"Rebuild confidence"??
An unfortunate metaphor and an unfortunate idea: it's the subway system -- obviously -- that needs rebuilding, and until that happens, there's little reason for confidence in it.
An unfortunate metaphor and an unfortunate idea: it's the subway system -- obviously -- that needs rebuilding, and until that happens, there's little reason for confidence in it.
135
The governor has been teflon despite numerous corruption scandals for the state and his poor management of Nyc assets
Yet the times seems focused on deblasio
What's the motive?