Am I the only person here wondering when these two young lovebirds are going to have their first fight?
6
People speak of "marriage" as an infallible road to happily ever after or synonymous to staying in love forever but, as good as it may sound, marriage does not guarantee success. I prefer we all say what we really feel and just agree on the small things. I've been married for 11 years and it's not the married part that defines us but our understanding that we are to make each other's lives easier, not add to the burden. Love my friends does not conquer all. Life has taught me that. It is respect that takes the driver's seat.
8
I am so glad to see that I am not the only one who is not taking this contract -relationship path. Love exist without boundaries and rules <3
4
One chooses and promises to live another. There are rules and boundaries of mutual decency and respect.
7
I've been married six years and while I do wish our communication was better about some of the more important things in our shared life, I really vehemently disagree with the notion that "every relationship is contractual." Nope, it really isn't, nor should it be. There are already too many rules and obligations in life- now we even want to boil down relationships to a set of parameters? This is sad to me. Glad it works for you, but the stories that make it to Modern Love don't ever represent me or any relationship I have ever had. They're all meant to be weird, I guess.
14
I am married 45 years and certainly realize that marriage is a work in progress. All the better to make one's wishes more concrete and less vague and reliant on the mood of the moment. This contract makes one stop and think about your partner and acknowledges that, at least in my opinion, humans are selfish by nature. However, I am quizzical about one point made... that at this time neither one of you want to plan or pay for a wedding. That seems like a rather conventional roadblock for two people who think out of the box as reflected by the relationship contract. The escalator trip up to marriage will be a work in progress. And it seems most probably accompanied by a contract as weddings have a myriad of details that can result in conflict. Good luck!
6
I like it! I've thought of short-term "marriage" contracts before, and often thought they might be a trend for the future. Nice to know that yours is working really well, mostly because you two are really working at it. I'm a good decade older than you, but jealous of your clear thinking approach to love!
10
So many interesting ideas in here. My husband and I have been married for 37 years, together for 40, and you have given me food for thought. Bravo! What a great idea to have a regularly-revisited vision/mission statement for your relationship. We have found intentional communication about ourselves and our relationship, theoretically, on a weekly basis, useful. How are you, how am I, how are we, kind of stuff. But, we've never thought of this powerful organizational idea applied to the most significant relationship in our lives. Thank you for the tip!
7
So you both agree to not be in a committed relationship, but want to pretend to be, until the contract isn't working for either of you. when you work out each's issues with each other, you can both find a real relationship to commit to. Sounds like your both not really into each other for real.
7
You miss the point entirely! They are committed to each other, in specific ways, for a year. The three-year lease you sign with a car dealership isn't any less of a contract than the one you sign to buy a car.
3
But ac's point is that a relationship is not a car deal! If you need to make it like that, it's not really a relationship.
5
Why not?
2
A logic of romantic love is an oxymoron.
4
This is a great idea--for women. Otherwise you're perpetually stuck with the second shift post-work. Though the twee tone and lack of financial pressure seems to make all of their decisions pretty silly, I commend the attempt. Hope it carries over into diaper-changing and snack day responsibilities. Will the bf be as amenable to real burden as he is to moving his stinky clothes out of the way?
13
Although we make promises, long love is not contractural. Sure, there are divisions of labor, but what if a day drags, or flies; inspiration fails, or strikes; the mood hits, or doesn't? Part of long love is learning how to read each other, and how to let each other know, day to day, what's going on. It's not just spontaneity; it's attunement. And the trust that making each day right, in all its human variation, will keep you from going off course.
23
Love this! Do you take GHI?
This is worse than Sheldon Coopers roommate contract.
18
Your questions concerning marriage can be atomized further into marriage and wedding. If you spilt the two, you might find new power in defining what marriage means, especially since it sounds like you already (might) have a life commitment.
7
Before kids everything can work. After them all romance falls apart. Add to the contract: each will have the right to send the kids to adoption.
10
Only until they get to college, just keep that day in sight.
1
Wonderful that you have created a way to communicate and live together. This right here is key, "It reminds us that love isn’t something that happens to us — it’s something we’re making together." You've figured out how to make it together and are committed to ongoing communication and negotiations. My husband of 30 years and I have done the same but less formally. For us it works as well. Here's to making love work! It's worth it!
17
I've been married for a happy 12 years. As a management consultant, I love the idea of getting everything out on the table and agreed to. However, in reality, I believe that if we did lay out all the tasks and divvy them up fairly, I would end up doing a lot more around the house than I do now, as I'm quite sure my husband does a lot more than me. While no doubt that suggests that I should be doing more, it also might explain why some partners may be against the idea of getting into this degree of transparency.
9
Who is the arbiter of fairness, though? Whatever works, I think. Maybe I do less housework but I also work a lot more outside the home and bring in more money.
For those of us who read Kai-Fu Lee's intriguing Op-Ed's piece, it seems like the messy work of being a life partner to another human being is ripe for Artificial Intelligence. You want predicability, reliability, and dependability without resentment, jealousy, and bitterness? You got it. Instead of signing on a dotted line every year to commit to an aging person who will fall apart over time, just agree to the terms of service with a piece of software that will get better and better with the latest update. Perhaps one of the most in-demand jobs will be to work as the "personal, embodied front end" for the AI for those times and occasions you need a flesh and blood human being. When you take stock of your day, how many hours in a day do you really need one of those. I need my spouse physically around about five hours a week--tops.
5
a planned meeting for open communication between two people who love each other? sounds like a good idea - contract or not.
13
This feels like someone who isn't assertive enough on a day-to-day basis, so needs a contract to fall back on. You have to spell out who takes the dog when? Really??? Maybe both of you are not ready for the mutual indulgence and grace that is part of any long successful relationship. Seems like she is making this guy pay for the man that came before him, her baggage cobbled onto this new love.
16
But the contract speaks that daily assertiveness for them. You seem to prefer arguing every day about who's going to walk the dog. I think I like the author's way better.
16
Forget about the romance , what about spontaneity ?
If this makes her happy great . I would feel stifled and wooden . Can't compromises be made as you go along ?
Life isn't that predictable , it changes . And two people have to be prepared to make those changes together as each situation arises . That's what determines whether or not a relationship flourishes or becomes conflicted , how you work through those situations .
If this makes her happy great . I would feel stifled and wooden . Can't compromises be made as you go along ?
Life isn't that predictable , it changes . And two people have to be prepared to make those changes together as each situation arises . That's what determines whether or not a relationship flourishes or becomes conflicted , how you work through those situations .
18
Many has found her niche to write about. I applaud that. She went viral and ran with it.
7
"I resolved that in my next relationship I would love more moderately keeping more of me for myself." This far - no further
8
That should go well.
This column becomes more strange with every new story. Perhaps itc name shall change from "modern love" to "strange love".
26
Exactly! Nothing relatable ever appears here.
3
Great that this works for Mandy and Mark.
Doubt that it's for everyone, precisely because it is so structured. I do hope that it can be amended by mutual consent of the parties. A year is a long time, and unanticipated situations arise.
An upside is that this structure requires the couple to discuss life choices, make compromises and commit to them.
Doubt that it's for everyone, precisely because it is so structured. I do hope that it can be amended by mutual consent of the parties. A year is a long time, and unanticipated situations arise.
An upside is that this structure requires the couple to discuss life choices, make compromises and commit to them.
8
First of all, all the best to Mandy and her partner! Hope all works out well and love lasts!
I am an seasoned married woman, who can offer one piece of advice:
Love is a decision, not a feeling. When we decide to love, we look for the good in each other, and yeah.....we often sacrifice for the our partners/spouses , seek the good in the other and learn to heal and forgive. Because my dears, there are no guarantees....zilch! You can have the best intentions, the best, most brilliant contract ever written ....but life is unpredictable, messy and if I know one thing for sure....life is hard.
So... choose to love one another. Or not. We've been married for forty four years, not easy but very worth the struggle, tears, heartache and all the fun!
I am an seasoned married woman, who can offer one piece of advice:
Love is a decision, not a feeling. When we decide to love, we look for the good in each other, and yeah.....we often sacrifice for the our partners/spouses , seek the good in the other and learn to heal and forgive. Because my dears, there are no guarantees....zilch! You can have the best intentions, the best, most brilliant contract ever written ....but life is unpredictable, messy and if I know one thing for sure....life is hard.
So... choose to love one another. Or not. We've been married for forty four years, not easy but very worth the struggle, tears, heartache and all the fun!
59
Love is a choice.- I agree.
Why aren't they walking the dog together in the evenings?
Marriage and children is not a tit for tat agreement. It's loving someone unselfishly enough to be thoughtful and kind even when they might not be doing the same.
I wish I could give more of myself to my amazing husband.
We don't want a contract to oblige us to be kind, thoughtful and considerate. It' takes character and work-not a list of chores.
I'm not sure how a marriage or family ever succeeds unless you put others before yourself.
Why aren't they walking the dog together in the evenings?
Marriage and children is not a tit for tat agreement. It's loving someone unselfishly enough to be thoughtful and kind even when they might not be doing the same.
I wish I could give more of myself to my amazing husband.
We don't want a contract to oblige us to be kind, thoughtful and considerate. It' takes character and work-not a list of chores.
I'm not sure how a marriage or family ever succeeds unless you put others before yourself.
5
I'm not sure what evinces more cluelessness - this type of contract or a birth plan.
16
I knew one couple like this. They even have their own mission statement, and are still reviewing this contract every year after 25 years. What they left out of this were his multiple affairs starting from before he was married (have seen the contract). He still is almost constantly having an affair -- not sure if she has ever found out.
13
i think this will all change if yoo have kids. 20 years after my first one, and I've rarely been able to go to bed when I want or most of the other things in the contract. Kids certainly won't follow this sort of plan, and you can't walk away if they don't fit your needs. But the spontaneity is the spice of life.
23
If you haven't got love, you will need a contract then.
14
I never knew that Dr. Sheldon Cooper's way of living can actually serve as a role model for real life relationships. When Sheldon invokes it, it sounds pathetic (and funny). Here, it seems to work. Congratulations.
9
Trying to maintain a sovereign individuality in marriage is a mistake to begin with. Not wanting to give up your independence is a good sign that you don't really want the kind of relationship you think you may want. Our culture disparages the men and women who choose to be single for life. Marriage and children change the very nature of your identity. If you are doing it right, you experience a profound change in who you actually are. You both become "one flesh". A pianist doesn't play one thing with one hand and another thing with the other, (s)he uses both hands to play a single thing. Interdependence is different from co-dependence.
29
I cannot disagree more. Marriage, at the best and most serendipitous of times, can be like a union of souls, two people working so well together that they act almost in concert at times. But life happens, and sometimes marriage cannot be lived this way! One person has a passion or gift the other does not or perhaps cannot share...should they give it up, then? Or should each person seek to find their own happiness while apart-- and then come together again? What about the partners who have meanigful bonds elsewhere....people who work as firefighters, cops, or soldiers, for instance? Don't they NEED the bonds they share with their co-workers while fighting fires or walking into dangerous situations? Even if this bond sometimes excludes the other person? Ditto ER docs and nurses, EMTs, even sometimes teachers and therapists. People who find themselves ministering to small children or elderly parents, or a community, AND a partnership...and some of it simply has to be done apart? A good relationship is not one thing. It is what works, for the two invloved, but also within other systems and structures. It is what works for two people who might be evolving, changing, even becoming different people due to tragedy, illness, circumstance, all manner of things...
3
My wife and I have learned and listened to each other. I have learned the quiet dawn of a Dokota winter and she the noise of a field house of screaming fans.
We have learned to cook together, watch our for each other and care for each other's ailments.
Maybe for those a contract is needed, for me it is the gentle hugs, evening toaste to a day gone by and the strength I get from knowing we are a team together
We have learned to cook together, watch our for each other and care for each other's ailments.
Maybe for those a contract is needed, for me it is the gentle hugs, evening toaste to a day gone by and the strength I get from knowing we are a team together
23
Congratulations, applause and 21-gun salute to Mandy Len Catron and her life companion for having chosen the medium of a (para- ?) legal contract to regulate their life together. Much tears and money could have been spared by those who jumped into marriage without thinking of the other side of the coin.
Minister's words at a protestant church wedding, "Until God does you part", may be extended to a divorce as a manifestation of God's will that "you should part".
As for the author's "contract of the rules of cohabitation", one would hope that they sought legal advice as to its validity.
All the best wishes for the future!
Minister's words at a protestant church wedding, "Until God does you part", may be extended to a divorce as a manifestation of God's will that "you should part".
As for the author's "contract of the rules of cohabitation", one would hope that they sought legal advice as to its validity.
All the best wishes for the future!
2
I think this works fabulously for GAY couples. It's a methodical way of getting everything out in the open. If you can't agree to this "contract" from the get go you are probably saving each other years of emotional headache and drama! Love this idea!!
4
What on earth does the legal and financial arrangement that is marriage have to do with planning and paying for a wedding? Go to City Hall and get married. People somehow have been brainwashed to think that they have to have one of these ridiculous wastes of time and money in order to actually be married.
48
As far as I think the relationship described in this short story is oblivious to me. Reasons there does not seem to be sincerity in those described therein. This looks to me as if this is a very selfish culture. The bond of love & marriage bestows upon you the obligations & responsibilities. What I conclude out of this interesting story is that the offspring would be more selfish, if any, out of this bizarre relationship.
1
I see a lot of people reacting to the particulars of the author's contract with her partner, or more specifically, the details she's chosen to share. Many of you reject this idea of a contract because you claim to prefer a relationship with ... truth, spontanaity, trust, selflessness, oneness, responsibility... fill in your own blank . No one seems to realize that if you expect that truth, spontanaity, trust, etc... fill in your own blank... THAT is a tacit contract. Why not talk about it, or write it down?
In fact, what are vows, if not a contract?
In fact, what are vows, if not a contract?
3
I've been with my partner for 31 years (married for 29, in love with him for close to 40). It was the second marriage for both of us so you would've thought we'd be more wary and out-front with expectations when we decided to marry. Far from it - we were idiots in love and in like and we just trusted stuff would sort itself out. And it has, for the most part - sometimes with difficulty, most of the time, not. Good luck to these folks.
10
Not wanting to plan and pay for a wedding? Not a prolblem. My wife and I were married in a rabbi's study. Our honeymoon was a day at Disneyland. Married quite happily for thirty-one years.
My wife says "It's not the wedding; it's the marriage that counts."
I got lucky.
My wife says "It's not the wedding; it's the marriage that counts."
I got lucky.
54
Amen!
12
I prefer contracts too. Smaller ones. Lasting about 12 minutes. Same principle as here. She brings the sex and I bring the money.
14
Aww, just let her be! Sure it's not for everyone, but if it's working for them....who are any of us to nay-say it?
Keep going, Mandy Len Catron. Rooting for you and your bf.
Keep going, Mandy Len Catron. Rooting for you and your bf.
14
Get married, and quit spending your life looking for the perfect person.
9
If the marital contract were actually written down and young men were required to read and understand it before entering into it marriage would soon become obsolete.
12
This is rather silly, in my opinion. What is more important than a contract is communication; every moment of every relationship is all about communication, which means sharing feelings and ideas with someone who may not understand let alone agree with you.
The lack of common understanding results in conflict. No contract can resolve those battles, only respectful and honest dialogue.
My wife and practice conscious communication techniques that we learned from a husband and wife team of marriage counselors. This ain't rocket science, folks. And it can truly work miracles. Contracts in relationships seem to be beside the point.
What matters in the heart cannot be memorialized on paper. Love and commitment, write it down? If you want...
The lack of common understanding results in conflict. No contract can resolve those battles, only respectful and honest dialogue.
My wife and practice conscious communication techniques that we learned from a husband and wife team of marriage counselors. This ain't rocket science, folks. And it can truly work miracles. Contracts in relationships seem to be beside the point.
What matters in the heart cannot be memorialized on paper. Love and commitment, write it down? If you want...
18
seems that a contract IS communication; it is a facilitator of discussion of explicit factors of importance to each party. I've noticed it sometimes work well in working relationships as well: each party fills out goals and comments about how a work relationship is proceeding, then they discuss what each has written and arrive at consensus. Writing is an effective way to focus one's mind.
15
A writtrn contract for lasting happy marriage life may pays off because during the drawing up of contract, the couple can candidly discuss what they want and how to work out differences that could lead to squabbles and discords.
In short, better communication-- allowing each spouse to identify with the mind of the other and to gain a deeper understanding of their needs and wishes--works wonders behind the written yearly contract. Such a contract is a product of more talking and listening with heart to each other, which is nothing more than good communication.
In short, better communication-- allowing each spouse to identify with the mind of the other and to gain a deeper understanding of their needs and wishes--works wonders behind the written yearly contract. Such a contract is a product of more talking and listening with heart to each other, which is nothing more than good communication.
10
Yes, but don't you see that this contract is a conversation? It may be silly for you, so keep on doing what whatever works for you & your wife. At the same time, please allow for others to communicate as they wish, how they wish and good for them if it works out well, too.
8
I think this is a great idea. Putting things in writing makes it much easier to be sure that the other person really understands what you're saying. Reviewing it once a year means you have a dedicated time to talk about your relationship and bring up difficult topics. Remember that traditional marriage is a contract with absurd terms: until death, no exceptions, and of course most people just break the contract when things aren't working.
8
The division of labor should happen naturally in any healthy relationship. I like gardening, looking after pets, taking the children to the amusement park, grocery shopping etc. but don't want a time limit on my activities. Making these things into an obligation and a chore to be dealt with makes them into work and takes away all the pleasure. Life changes, relationships change, people change, children come along. Children have their preference which parent they want doing certain things. Life is too complicated to capture in a contract.
10
Different ways of doing things are good for different people - contracts for some, go-with-the-flow for others.
10
2,000 years ago, in Paul's Letter to the Ephesians (in the Bible's New Testament), he calls a husband and wife "one flesh".
You don't need to accept the Divinity of Christ to be disarmed by the profound wisdom of that metaphor; it stands alone.
When a couple is "one flesh" they cease being two halves in a relationship, and they uphold each other as surely as each loves her or himself.
We all fall on different places with respect to whether old teachings can be trusted, and Thomas Jefferson took to excising the "miracles" from his Bible. It is hard to read words like St. Paul's and not see the wisdom for what it is and was: cutting edge advice to life partners.
And if you don't believe in lifetime monogamy, or feel yourself relativizing the harm and hurt of divorce or breakup, stay away from children and stick with dogs and cats.
You don't need to accept the Divinity of Christ to be disarmed by the profound wisdom of that metaphor; it stands alone.
When a couple is "one flesh" they cease being two halves in a relationship, and they uphold each other as surely as each loves her or himself.
We all fall on different places with respect to whether old teachings can be trusted, and Thomas Jefferson took to excising the "miracles" from his Bible. It is hard to read words like St. Paul's and not see the wisdom for what it is and was: cutting edge advice to life partners.
And if you don't believe in lifetime monogamy, or feel yourself relativizing the harm and hurt of divorce or breakup, stay away from children and stick with dogs and cats.
14
Hi Stuart, long time married woman here, who, since Trump, is revising a long held appreciation for Evangelical truths such as "one flesh". Evangelicals were willing to vote for a man who made a mockery of this. Jefferson, whom you mentioned, had Sally Hemmings and a whole line of descendants through her, now finally recognized at Monticello. Priests are willing to annul marriages with children. Still what is left for me today as I am disappointed in some relatives in the extended family is: do not get vindictive or in today's parlance "suck it up", don't put your chagrin into words, but quietly go on expressing your authentic self, increasingly that is with my husband and me by ourselves, fading into the sunset.
2
I'd disagree, just from childhood experience: if someone believes in staying together for life even after the marriage goes bad (adultery, fighting, abuse, addiction etc.), *then* avoid having kids or any pet more aware than a goldfish.
I'm not saying people shouldn't try to save their marriage *if* the only real problem is that they're 'not compatible' or 'aren't in love anymore', to be clear... I *am* saying that if someone intends to stick with a partner even if the person turns out to be harmful to themselves or others in some way, then don't have kids or pets that will have to suffer involuntarily along with you.
I'm not saying people shouldn't try to save their marriage *if* the only real problem is that they're 'not compatible' or 'aren't in love anymore', to be clear... I *am* saying that if someone intends to stick with a partner even if the person turns out to be harmful to themselves or others in some way, then don't have kids or pets that will have to suffer involuntarily along with you.
1
The idea of formalizing a contract is fine if both parties want it. What I find troubling here is that this woman -having been burned in a previous relationship in which she didn't assert herself - is now overcompensating in the opposite direction. Her partner appears to want to get married but is so cowed by her need for control that he fears proposing outright. Another issue she has is fear of cliches. Maybe that is a mark of her generation. She abhors the "surprise proposal...tearful acceptance...Facebook slide show." But now she's been with this guy for 2 1/2 years and he's demonstrated that - besides whatever else she likes/loves about him - he's reliable and accommodating. She should take a cue from her dog and "yelp with happiness at the sight of him." And if she has even the slightest inclination towards marriage and/or children, stop vacillating. Things get harder later.
39
so what happens when one doesn't adhere to said contract? break-up/divorce? or fight like a regular uncontractual couple? didn't get to that part of the article (or don't think it was written down, punny)
13
Ugh...this sounds miserable to me....splitting the bill at every meal besides date nights? Contractually obligated to eat breakfast together? Love isn't a business transaction, it's flexible, fallible, and should leave room for change and fun... this would be abysmal for me.
40
I can never think of doing this kind of actions with anybody sitting besides me, not to speak of my life-partener. Marriage is bond of love & trust. but I dont find any love or trust in those described in the article. They are just passing time together.
1
I wish them luck, but frankly, if I could short this marriage, I'd make a lot of money.
18
This is satirical, right?
10
This relationship contract of this couple is goofy beyond compare.
12
Why always so critical of authors sharing their lives? Leave her alone. They are sweet. They will discover all these "hard edges" on their own. Love is a hard thing to find...and keep
1
Mandy asks, "What would marriage offer us that we don't already have?" Just this: a contract publicly declared and witnessed committing each of you that from this day forward you will put the needs of the other ahead of your own. It's not a 50/50 proposition, it's 2×100%. If you can each fulfill that commitment, day in and day out, year after year, all else will be commentary.
24
I agree with the author, the terms of the marriage contract are unreasonable considering human nature. This is clearly proven by the divorce rate. I like her approach, especially for early phases of a relationship when hormonal attraction clouds out judgment.
2
Sound scary!
Brilliantly said.
We traditionally have taught our girls that a princess wedding would be the highlight of their young lives, and that the rest would then be magically happy ever after. What rot.
Thinking and talking through all the details of a life together may not appeal to everyone, but it's a solid plan for equity and stability in a relationship. No relationship can endure without personal commitment and connection, but an unexamined relationship can self-destruct into bitterness and animosity - despite ardor and hormones and legality and family pressures and social strictures.
The head and the heart can work together, and if they don't there will be trouble.
Thoughtful article. Thank you.
Thinking and talking through all the details of a life together may not appeal to everyone, but it's a solid plan for equity and stability in a relationship. No relationship can endure without personal commitment and connection, but an unexamined relationship can self-destruct into bitterness and animosity - despite ardor and hormones and legality and family pressures and social strictures.
The head and the heart can work together, and if they don't there will be trouble.
Thoughtful article. Thank you.
31
why not just write this out - get the mutual expectations set - and skip the signature?
seems like a person signs a contract to protect themselves - in other words there's a statement here of 'I don't trust you unless you are bound.'
seems like a person signs a contract to protect themselves - in other words there's a statement here of 'I don't trust you unless you are bound.'
8
Interesting tool to facilitate concensus, but the minimum required becomes the maximum done over time.
3
Really inspiring!!!
It is not frequent today to read about such a simple idea, and also not a new idea, being actually so clearly at the same time super romantic and super practical. Merging in one apparently contradictory forces: stability and passion.
Reminded me of Alain de Botton current crusade against romantic love, but in this case letting still space for it in a structure way.
It is not frequent today to read about such a simple idea, and also not a new idea, being actually so clearly at the same time super romantic and super practical. Merging in one apparently contradictory forces: stability and passion.
Reminded me of Alain de Botton current crusade against romantic love, but in this case letting still space for it in a structure way.
7
When I read a column like this, it is clear that my generation failed its offspring by trying too hard to "love" by clearing away struggle, suffering, and failure from our children's lives.
Reaching adulthood, and sitting over a contract with a "partner", misses the edges; and it is the edges that will define a lifetime together.
Last week, a family friend committed suicide bearing down on his sixties. Setting aside the fact that he was a beneficiary of "White supremacy", this was a father and human being who had enough resources to keep a roof overhead for his family.
Two decades ago, I saw family members bury a child stillborn. Soldiering forward, they fairly prospered with the empty chair at each family event until another brother became fabulously wealthy, introducing recriminations and envy.
Our love had its roots in pheromones, pride, and ego. We seemed to "complete each other" well, and friends were impressed. But the deeper roots were aided by turning "love" not into a destination but a verb, and the vows taken before God were the promise we would never break. While I understand the spirit between a two-party contract, the presence of God (or "god") in a relationship is a level of accountability that supersedes either partner, ensuring a 1-1 tie is never grounds for separation.
There are many (most) who will read this and scoff at allusions to God. But having walked through financial wreckage, cancer, and child estrangement, it is our rock.
A "contract" pales.
Reaching adulthood, and sitting over a contract with a "partner", misses the edges; and it is the edges that will define a lifetime together.
Last week, a family friend committed suicide bearing down on his sixties. Setting aside the fact that he was a beneficiary of "White supremacy", this was a father and human being who had enough resources to keep a roof overhead for his family.
Two decades ago, I saw family members bury a child stillborn. Soldiering forward, they fairly prospered with the empty chair at each family event until another brother became fabulously wealthy, introducing recriminations and envy.
Our love had its roots in pheromones, pride, and ego. We seemed to "complete each other" well, and friends were impressed. But the deeper roots were aided by turning "love" not into a destination but a verb, and the vows taken before God were the promise we would never break. While I understand the spirit between a two-party contract, the presence of God (or "god") in a relationship is a level of accountability that supersedes either partner, ensuring a 1-1 tie is never grounds for separation.
There are many (most) who will read this and scoff at allusions to God. But having walked through financial wreckage, cancer, and child estrangement, it is our rock.
A "contract" pales.
21
I could not be more opposed to this idea. Of course it's important for both members of a couple to have their needs met, when possible. But in my work with couples facing Parkinson's Disease what I see is what happens in marriages when gradually one member of the couple can't contribute at all. Because their contract is for life, the relationship doesn't dissolve due to this kind of extreme hardship. It is taxed and heavily tolled, but it stands up because that was the deal 30 or 50 years earlier when they got married. How many sick and disabled people would be left alone if the contract was up for debate every 12 months?
30
I'm pretty sure that's an exception; surely you realize that.
My wife and I have done something similar, and I suspect that she and her boyfriend handle the issue you raised similarly.
The contract is up for negotiation every 12 months, not so that it can't be changed under any circumstances, but so that if one or both of them starts drifting away from the agreement, they can address that on grounds that they have both agreed to. Revising the contract every 12 months ensures that you are both regularly considering, discussing, and dealing with each others needs, not so that you can better punish violations.
My wife developed a chronic illness, and the agreement changed, not because it was time to change it, but because it needed to change. Changing the contract midstream was a way of honoring, not contradicting, the spirit of the contract.
Ultimately, these contracts are just as healthy as the relationship they are built in. If a couple writes one just because they want to convict each other of crimes against the relationship, then that contract will probably just be expressing the dysfunction in an already-bad relationship. If a couple writes one because they want to make sure they are hearing and meeting each other's needs, that contract will likely be reinforcing healthy functioning in an already healthy relationship.
The contract is up for negotiation every 12 months, not so that it can't be changed under any circumstances, but so that if one or both of them starts drifting away from the agreement, they can address that on grounds that they have both agreed to. Revising the contract every 12 months ensures that you are both regularly considering, discussing, and dealing with each others needs, not so that you can better punish violations.
My wife developed a chronic illness, and the agreement changed, not because it was time to change it, but because it needed to change. Changing the contract midstream was a way of honoring, not contradicting, the spirit of the contract.
Ultimately, these contracts are just as healthy as the relationship they are built in. If a couple writes one just because they want to convict each other of crimes against the relationship, then that contract will probably just be expressing the dysfunction in an already-bad relationship. If a couple writes one because they want to make sure they are hearing and meeting each other's needs, that contract will likely be reinforcing healthy functioning in an already healthy relationship.
6
In my comment above, I should have written, "My wife and I have done something similar, and I suspect that THE AUTHOR and her boyfriend handle the issue you raised similarly."
Instead I made it sound like I was talking about my wife and her boyfriend. Our contract contains no provision that would allow for such an arrangement.
Instead I made it sound like I was talking about my wife and her boyfriend. Our contract contains no provision that would allow for such an arrangement.
8
The idea of a contract was proposed in the 60s or 70s in a feminist writing. Does someone remember who that was? Simone. Gloria perhaps?
8
It would be very interesting to hear from Ms. Catron say 5 and then 10 years from now. My prediction is not one of sustained happiness, which involves a willingness to trust and to take risks rather than this rather businesslike arrangement.
41
I like this idea. I've lost myself in several relationships due to a lack of clear boundaries and expectations which always leads to resentment that ends the relationship. Putting it in writing solves the issue and keeps communication open. Amy and Sheldon are on to something with their relationship contract.
21
Agree! Head in the sand is particularly risky for women. And accommodating too much, one loses one's own desires and life.
I am so old that when I experience these conversations they are in the midst of family therapy sessions. Don't get me wrong; family therapy is great! But it strikes me that figuring out how to have these conversations sooner might actually produce more joy later. Thanks for your thoughtfulness, and for chronicling it. I will pass this on to my children.
31
I would love to have a marriage contract, but my husband would think it was crazy. We've been married 15 years, and while we get along pretty well, we're seriously different people. I like plans and schedules and lists and themes. My spices are in alphabetical order and my clothes are arranged in the closet by the color spectrum. My husband, though an engineer, is entirely spontaneous, sighing if I suggest we make a hotel reservation (he likes to take his chances) or plan meals more than a day ahead. I often feel that I've lost my true self but at the same time I think my husband feels hemmed in by all my lists. Marriage is hard. However, we agree about politics and the environment and doing good for others, and we love our kids, so we keep going. Good luck, Mandy and Mark, I wish you all the best on this difficult journey.
43
uh, one of the topics under the ongoing topic of marriage are the costs of a committed couple NOT getting married. Marriage confers certain financial and other rights on both parties that do not exist in the cohabitating state. You should research this and either find work-arounds or consider matrimony. You can keep your personal contract and know that you have other rights.
I don't know New York law but its something you should consider.
I don't know New York law but its something you should consider.
23
Thanks for writing this, I like this idea and will put it into practice!
8
Very smart idea. If nothing else, this system allows for things to get be talked about rather than get swept under the rug. The famous toothpaste-cap fight is not about that, it's about the things that have been simmering under the surface.
I also like be the idea, in one of the comments, of a regular "retreat" for the couple to step back and seek the higher ground.
I hope a little laughter is somewhere in the mix!
I also like be the idea, in one of the comments, of a regular "retreat" for the couple to step back and seek the higher ground.
I hope a little laughter is somewhere in the mix!
22
Postmodernism relationship? Happy for this couple, proof of human individuality and uniqueness of every relationship.
6
You two are adorable.
BEST wishes for a continuing-ly agreeable future.
BEST wishes for a continuing-ly agreeable future.
20
WOW! I loved reading this! Thank you for describing with such clarity and humor and compassion - 3 things I hope to have in love - a more conscious, aware way to navigate that thing called Love. So many of the things you wrote about, in particular finding the space for yourself in relationship, touch me deeply. I have learned that same lesson and applaud you and Mark for your willingness to be creative and open with each other and plot a course together that's honest. I sincerely intend to find a partner, somewhere, who will share that kind of commitment to ourselves and each other living authentically, with no apologies. You are walking new territory and I hope that in sharing about it, it drops like seeds and grows everywhere! Mahalo! (My profile may say Colorado, but I live in Hawaii - please update NYT!)
10
Our marriage works because we are each willing to overlook each other's lapses.
This would be way harder to do if we had a written contract.
This would be way harder to do if we had a written contract.
37
Oh c'mon, lighten up everybody! Fun article!
23
A little clarity on ground rules going in to a relationship would be good. I have to say that when Laura and I met we were not thinking that way - "Passion is the enemy of precision." [Daryl Zero] But, after 41 years, we're pretty clear on our agreements and pretty happy together. And, no, we skipped the long walk to the altar.
3
relationships like this are always on reaction.
She is still reacting on her ex.
I did this with him SO now I have to do this with you.
It is never about starting over and dealing each other as the first time.
Whenever one is still reacting to the last guy or girl, one is not here or real or ready for another relationship.
She is still reacting on her ex.
I did this with him SO now I have to do this with you.
It is never about starting over and dealing each other as the first time.
Whenever one is still reacting to the last guy or girl, one is not here or real or ready for another relationship.
14
I don't believe this author is reacting to a prior failed relationship. I think she's being pro-active by taking what she's learned about her wants and needs and applying them to her current partnership.
18
Very good, important observation.
One should not harden one's heart...
It's ugly.
One should not harden one's heart...
It's ugly.
I had to chuckle and write my first response to this column after an encounter I had 20 years ago at Club Med.
My wife and I had been married at that point perhaps 25 years and we went to dinner with a couple who had a marriage contract. We had never heard of a marriage contract. I wife and I have had the usual amount of domestic spats and I was fascinated to learn that this was a 14 page document which clearly spelled out everything from taking out the garbage to sex and everything in between.
She was the vice President of her father's company and was being groomed to take it over. She was quite attractive and he was a male model. But he had just been transferred from the city where they both waved to another area in the Midwest. So I asked how often they got to see each other. And they said that he flew in once a month and she flew out once a month. Sounds very reasonable.
But that's when I got into big trouble. It also sounded reasonable to me to ask if while they were apart they could see someone else. He replied with a resounding no. She replied with an equally resounding yes. He quoted paragraph two of section 3 of the contract while she quoted a different paragraph.
At this point my wife was vigorously kicking me out of the table and I figured out that I had better shut up. The next day we were all leaving Club Med. I saw them online and apologize to them for causing a dispute. They said to me, we have to thank you because for six nights we had avoided the problem
My wife and I had been married at that point perhaps 25 years and we went to dinner with a couple who had a marriage contract. We had never heard of a marriage contract. I wife and I have had the usual amount of domestic spats and I was fascinated to learn that this was a 14 page document which clearly spelled out everything from taking out the garbage to sex and everything in between.
She was the vice President of her father's company and was being groomed to take it over. She was quite attractive and he was a male model. But he had just been transferred from the city where they both waved to another area in the Midwest. So I asked how often they got to see each other. And they said that he flew in once a month and she flew out once a month. Sounds very reasonable.
But that's when I got into big trouble. It also sounded reasonable to me to ask if while they were apart they could see someone else. He replied with a resounding no. She replied with an equally resounding yes. He quoted paragraph two of section 3 of the contract while she quoted a different paragraph.
At this point my wife was vigorously kicking me out of the table and I figured out that I had better shut up. The next day we were all leaving Club Med. I saw them online and apologize to them for causing a dispute. They said to me, we have to thank you because for six nights we had avoided the problem
35
The contract of relationship--such as who walks the dog, who takes out the garbage, etc might work only when the emotional bond between two people is strong and not allow the trivial arguments destroy it. Without it, no contract can guarantee a long-lasting relationship. There is no relationship without mutual respect and equality. The equality does not mean you split the restaurant's bill. One good thing about this article is that one should not lose oneself in a relationship. Hopefully both partners can grow together in it and not grow apart.
15
You are absolutely right. If this couple wasn't deeply and mutually in love, any contract they entered would be meaningless.
5
Very interesting and thought-provoking. The comments are equally so. I'm shocked that some of them are so viscerally negative.
Much of what Mandy has written here makes perfect sense to me. The concept of making sure that both members make room for themselves in the relationship certainly seems sound. And what in the world is wrong with giving thought to and putting into words why you want to enter into the relationship and what your goals and expectations are? Doing so adds a tad of logic to juxtapose against the illogic of feelings. We enter into relationships for a variety of reasons, most of which are the result of a crazy hormone soup. Hormone levels fluctuate constantly—not a very dependable method on which to base a life-long commitment.
The divorce rate would probably go down if people gave more thought to what their motives are when becoming one part of a couple.
"Falling in love," "spontaneity," "romance": what are they?
Darned if I know . . .
Much of what Mandy has written here makes perfect sense to me. The concept of making sure that both members make room for themselves in the relationship certainly seems sound. And what in the world is wrong with giving thought to and putting into words why you want to enter into the relationship and what your goals and expectations are? Doing so adds a tad of logic to juxtapose against the illogic of feelings. We enter into relationships for a variety of reasons, most of which are the result of a crazy hormone soup. Hormone levels fluctuate constantly—not a very dependable method on which to base a life-long commitment.
The divorce rate would probably go down if people gave more thought to what their motives are when becoming one part of a couple.
"Falling in love," "spontaneity," "romance": what are they?
Darned if I know . . .
25
Historically, it's been during that "hormone soup" period that people entered into marriage and made a life-long commitment. No wonder people don't want to make a life-long commitment anymore. The romance and excitement is over four years later, the sexual tension released. What you're left with is "Marriage. “So what do you think?"
Sorry, this all seems so terribly pathetic
40
Why? Because it's difficult to clearly discuss your needs, or because you don't care about the needs of a partner?
4
What is pathetic is spending 1 year and $10-$100K on a fairytale wedding and not spending the time to discuss the basics of building a life together. Spending a few hours each year to assess the relationship and how to improve it and ensure both sides are happy and in agreement is actually romantic and mature.
5
Three keys here:
1- communication
2- sex
3- a happy dog
We should all take note!
1- communication
2- sex
3- a happy dog
We should all take note!
38
“Mark and Mandy’s Relationship Contract" sounds like the perfect mechanism to "love more moderately."
Wait, why don't we write a marriage contract that says "I, take you, to be my wedded husband/wife, for richer or poorer, in sickness an health..." That would take advantage of millennia of social mores that actually produced a stable society. LoL. Amazing.
21
Except for the fact that humans aren't actually as simple as the social mores you quote, which frankly have been imposed on people, rather than naturally blossoming from the inside. The divorce rate attests to this.
16
@Mitch
One is a commitment to the other person, and their's is a commitment to themselves.
I Corinthians has plenty to say about love, also; but it cannot be trusted, because it is from the (Eeek!) Bible.
And I always thought the post-faithful had an answer to the natural occurrence of altruism. Apparently it's more difficult than advertised.
One is a commitment to the other person, and their's is a commitment to themselves.
I Corinthians has plenty to say about love, also; but it cannot be trusted, because it is from the (Eeek!) Bible.
And I always thought the post-faithful had an answer to the natural occurrence of altruism. Apparently it's more difficult than advertised.
1
The divorce rate has been falling for some time now.
It seems like such an exercise might remove spontaneity from the relationship... perhaps make one feel less like they have room to improvise. But on the other hand, if it seems to be working... well, yeah.
It sounds like your relationship is fraught with communication and identity issues. These interventions, such as your "contract," are just masking the underlying instability. It sounds calculating because it is. You should probably have broken up a long time ago.
A cute, trite article. Re: "to fall in love with anyone, do this..." and the 36 questions. Why would you want to fall in love with "anyone"... That seems forced and desperate. I think the questions are interesting and would certainly help both friends and lovers connect, but when you truly connect those questions and answers just naturally unfold unless you're a bit autistic perhaps. I like the idea of the contract, but again, it seems a bit juvenile and overthought. When two people really respect each other and love each other they work it out and don't need a contract to do so. They just figure it out without resentments. I've been in the unbalanced resentful relationships, and I am 2 years into the blissful "it just works" relationship, and I have learned that relationships aren't forced. They work when they work and it doesn't take years or even months to figure it out. It's pretty intuitive and instantaneous. My guess is the author of this article is in her early 30s... which really is a bit too young to be advising about relationships IMHO.
33
This one current relationship of yours 'worked when it worked'. Humans are different. Relationships are different. What works for you in this one specific relationship works for you in this one specific relationship. Isn't it nice to see something that works for someone else?
2
Not judging, I swear, but my first reaction is: You must be kidding. Or engineers. Or OCD. I'm glad they found each other.
57
No, definitely not engineers. Psychobablers, yes. Engineers no.
No engineer I know of would go to such lengths first analysing then structuring a human relationship.
Trust me I know, as an engineer married to an engineer.
OCD or not, I can't say.
No engineer I know of would go to such lengths first analysing then structuring a human relationship.
Trust me I know, as an engineer married to an engineer.
OCD or not, I can't say.
2
Just get married without all the bells and whistles. Create your own unique parth to do that also. Get married in a registry office in Tasmania. Decide later if you want a ring (or any physically wearable definition of your status or not) and what you want it to look like. Don't change your name. Etc. Question all those so called marriage norms and create your own path. Hey, create your own "marriage path" contract ;).
12
Wonderful
1
And then get divorced when romance collides with reality? Romantics often don't discuss the details
My wife and I have had relationship agreements for the last 5 years, and it has been such an incredible tool for us. Every 4 months(ish) we take a weekend to improve/update/change it. We joke that this is our quarterly retreat. It's so cool to see this idea showing up in the New York Times!
Eri Kardos talks about Relationship Agreements and how to write them in this awesome book. Can't recommend it enough:
https://www.amazon.com/Relationship-Agreements-Strengthening-Communicati...
Eri Kardos talks about Relationship Agreements and how to write them in this awesome book. Can't recommend it enough:
https://www.amazon.com/Relationship-Agreements-Strengthening-Communicati...
16
The most important contract most men will ever enter into is the marriage contract but it's never available in written form. That's because its sole function any longer is to transfer wealth from men to women so if it were written down most men would run screaming shortly after reading it, never to be seen again. That's why the clearest test as to whether a woman really loves a man or not is if she tries to rope a man into entering into such a one-sided contract.
6
Patrick: I trust you are not married and woe to the poor dear who is desperate enough to agree to marry you.
8
Really?
3
I think she wanted a new Modern Love article published and came up with this idea. I liked the 36 questions article. This one is too ripped from the script of Big Bang Theory.
12
It seems that marriage is a government institution: legal benefits for the married. Other than than, the man need only do one thing, which is to love his wife unconditionally.
10
I appreciate you sharing these details about your personal life.
I was waiting for the section when marriage would appear. I think it's important for modern women such as yourself to understand that it benefits the man to delay and avoid marriage and not the woman. Yes, even if you earn more money than him! I'm a man and the same age as you, and I don't know why our peers let men get away with this.
Moving in together is not the same thing as marriage. Your last relationship lasted nine years and he never committed. I would hate to see you go another five years with this man only to have it end the same way. With each passing year he will be less inclined to propose.
You're in your mid-thirties. If you weren't already aware, your dating options have already become limited. His haven't yet and won't for several more years.
Four years is long enough. If he won't commit to you now, he probably never will. Force him to make a choice. Empower yourself.
Since you're open to clinical/unromantic analysis of relationships, I would recommend researching market dynamics and how they apply to dating.
Best of luck to you whatever you decide.
I was waiting for the section when marriage would appear. I think it's important for modern women such as yourself to understand that it benefits the man to delay and avoid marriage and not the woman. Yes, even if you earn more money than him! I'm a man and the same age as you, and I don't know why our peers let men get away with this.
Moving in together is not the same thing as marriage. Your last relationship lasted nine years and he never committed. I would hate to see you go another five years with this man only to have it end the same way. With each passing year he will be less inclined to propose.
You're in your mid-thirties. If you weren't already aware, your dating options have already become limited. His haven't yet and won't for several more years.
Four years is long enough. If he won't commit to you now, he probably never will. Force him to make a choice. Empower yourself.
Since you're open to clinical/unromantic analysis of relationships, I would recommend researching market dynamics and how they apply to dating.
Best of luck to you whatever you decide.
21
She has empowered herself.
5
You "dont know why our peers let men get away with this?" Are you kidding? As if it's some societal obligation for a man (or anyone for that matter) to agree to be married? Boy, are you out of the 12th century! Please update your views to the 21st.
5
First, it was clear that he wants to get married; she's hesitant.
Second, what exactly are you on about? Who wants/needs a 'proposal'? It's childish and antiquated, and perpetuates some ludicrous idea that the man must "choose" a woman and lay claim to her to prove her worth. Sounds grotesque.
Second, what exactly are you on about? Who wants/needs a 'proposal'? It's childish and antiquated, and perpetuates some ludicrous idea that the man must "choose" a woman and lay claim to her to prove her worth. Sounds grotesque.
1
Mandy, thank you for your article this morning. I really enjoyed reading it. More importantly, after reading your article, I feel better and more open about two people in love discussing, negotiating knitty gritty details including splitting tabs for every day stuff.
Thank you, Mandy!
Thank you, Mandy!
2
This is lovely; three cheers to you. I wish I had that book and a contract 30 years ago.
1
I prefer holy matrimony to modern love. It requires sacrifice, patience and love that runs very deep. It must steer clear of rushing, eye to eye avoidance, and listening half-heartedly. It provides for someone to stay up with another under trying circumstances through old age. It can be very romantic given the lack of anything contractual beyond a marriage certificate. It's much more than friendship with an agreed to set of rules. In my "universe" it's the only way to fly.
18
This is probably the first Modern Love article to make my flesh crawl. A "relationship contract" on your laptops renewed yearly?? Regular open and honest communication has paved the way for understanding for me and my husband. I would never want to manage him, or be managed by, this type of relationship project. If I ever had an acquaintance who wanted to escalate our contact into a friendship via this type of exhaustive list score-keeping, I would run the other way. The author and her partner seem meant for each other because this "contract works". To each their own, truly.
42
This is simply their form of "regular open and honest communication". It's so strange that so many people are so distraught over it.
4
I loved reading this article ... it spoke to me on a personal level. I am now in my 50s and viewing several failed relationships in my rearview mirror, I wish I could go back in time and propose "the relationship contract" as a way to set certain of these relationships on the right course. Had my ex-husband and I been willing to attempt something like this before we got married and had children, I believe we would still be married today.
9
The author writes : Our contract begins with our reasons for being together: “We aspire to help each other be more ethically-minded and generous friends, community members and global citizens.”
O.k., I know she's young, idealistic and inexperienced...but seriously?
While I recommend discussing, planning and agreeing on a few important things before embarking on a serious relationship, a 12-month renewable written contact seems like she's trying to control and predict the direction their relationship is headed. Where's the spontaneity? And the wonderful mystery, passion and adventure that a new relationship can bring?
The old expression 'Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans' comes to mind here...You can't live in the moment if you are planning out and predicting everything in advance. Besides, more often than not, life simply doesn't unfold according to plan.
O.k., I know she's young, idealistic and inexperienced...but seriously?
While I recommend discussing, planning and agreeing on a few important things before embarking on a serious relationship, a 12-month renewable written contact seems like she's trying to control and predict the direction their relationship is headed. Where's the spontaneity? And the wonderful mystery, passion and adventure that a new relationship can bring?
The old expression 'Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans' comes to mind here...You can't live in the moment if you are planning out and predicting everything in advance. Besides, more often than not, life simply doesn't unfold according to plan.
35
I found myself wondering what they talk about when they aren't talking about The Relationship - you know, like the deplorable condition of our country, the Israeli/Palestine horror, the reality that our species is destroying the planet we need for life.
7
"...that our species is destroying the planet...".
BRILLIANT. Thank you.
Perhaps they'll add to their contract, "A promise to refrain from breeding to keep a small carbon footprint"
again, well said. thanks. so true. the Human race still doesn't get that we're borrowing our space here, and that we don't own it, nor are we entitled to it.
BRILLIANT. Thank you.
Perhaps they'll add to their contract, "A promise to refrain from breeding to keep a small carbon footprint"
again, well said. thanks. so true. the Human race still doesn't get that we're borrowing our space here, and that we don't own it, nor are we entitled to it.
1
Very interesting topic and a relationship.
I find in my relationship our communication, relation, and goals are sort of every day talk. I also find because we do not have children, there is really no reason to say we did not talk about that...
I think most marriages when there are children, people get sloppy talking about why they are together but then I also realize there is only 24 hrs in the day. sleep, work, child bearing/raising, family, friends, maybe time for self, there is nothing left to take moments to have conversation about the relationship.
I hope this couple they take somethings off the list as those things become too normal for them and put new things like what if you are just unhappy or depressed? you can never plan for this sort of things but they are good to talk about it. depression or mental health can come out of every day thing like car accident or miscarriage or sickness...
I wish you the best for planning your marriage.
I find in my relationship our communication, relation, and goals are sort of every day talk. I also find because we do not have children, there is really no reason to say we did not talk about that...
I think most marriages when there are children, people get sloppy talking about why they are together but then I also realize there is only 24 hrs in the day. sleep, work, child bearing/raising, family, friends, maybe time for self, there is nothing left to take moments to have conversation about the relationship.
I hope this couple they take somethings off the list as those things become too normal for them and put new things like what if you are just unhappy or depressed? you can never plan for this sort of things but they are good to talk about it. depression or mental health can come out of every day thing like car accident or miscarriage or sickness...
I wish you the best for planning your marriage.
5
My husband and I wrote a marriage contract. Clarity is not antithetical to love. On the more mundane items, clarity defends against building resentment (e.g.- I am in charge of all cooking and cleaning. My husband usually helps, but I never feel resentful if he doesn't) because that's the deal. I agreed to it. I don't look back. There is enough to negotiate. I don't have to think about whether his not cleaning means he doesn't love me. It's just not what he does. Going into a marriage (or major relationship commitment) requires knowing how much and what you can give before feeling resentful (or like you've given too much).
On the more "core" relationship issues, the explicitness also helps disentangle wants/needs from love. I mean, what to do when one partner has greater sexual needs than the other? Advice: don't make it about love.
On the more "core" relationship issues, the explicitness also helps disentangle wants/needs from love. I mean, what to do when one partner has greater sexual needs than the other? Advice: don't make it about love.
13
To me, the problem with this is that the requirements of a contract makes things required instead of voluntary or spontaneous. Independently doing something for a partner, getting the same in return, having spontaneity, eg going out with each other, going out with friends with or without your partner, doing something unexpected or unusually thoughtful is part of a successful relationship with meaning. A contract takes that away, and would seem to ultimately be a source of resentment and conflict unto itself, which it's intended to prevent.
5
Almost as interesting as the piece itself are many of the comments. What is it that drives the seemingly universal human impulse to attach a value judgment to something others do, when it affects no one else at all?
37
What? Are you just reacting, or you seriously don't understand this? It is because the moral decisions of others have an impact on all of us, because they form the foundation of the type of family/community/country we all live in. We need a basic agreement on these things to live together well. And, the less agreement there is, the more reaction there is, because it is a necessary part of life for humans, who are social beings.
8
Maybe dial back the condescension a notch. I'm reacting to two main themes I saw in the comments: 1) That a lot of people seem to be taking this very literally (i.e., a contract as a legally binding agreement), when in reality it seems more like a tool this couple uses to engage in an ongoing dialog to express their wants and needs; and 2) That there are some people who go far beyond saying "well, I don't think this would work for me in my relationship, but if it's helpful for them, great" and stray into the territory of a pointed value judgment (i.e., "this is bad/wrong/unhealthy). And I fail to see how what one individual couple does to ensure that they're both feeling happy and healthy threatens to eat away at the moral fabric of society.
29
A nephew of a friend of mine probably could do something like this. Not only he was pretty messed up when he was young because of the dueling divorcing parents, but only he was (still is?) on one of the ADD medications which has certain side effects. Maybe this is the best one could do - after all, having someone may be better than no one to some folks - but maybe this is why a lot of couples cannot survive a test of differences whether they are religious, political or simply lifestyle. Some can't even stand the test of time, period.
A disclaimer: perhaps I am old fashioned but I certainly don't advocate people stick to a loveless marriage unless a marriage of convenience like this is agreed upon
A disclaimer: perhaps I am old fashioned but I certainly don't advocate people stick to a loveless marriage unless a marriage of convenience like this is agreed upon
6
Creates a safe place to say "we both count" and "we both have needs." I can't imagine creating this type of document because we communicate differently at our house and within our marriage - but whatever "gets you through the night is all right, all right."
7
It seems to us that *because* these two were *already* well-matched and on the same wavelength, the contract biz could work -- rather than that having a contract made them well-suited for each other ensured they were on the same page!
6
Since I'm so far from this generation I found myself gagging at the self-involved yet mechanistic tone of the article. I decided to stay with my now husband because he could manage me -- a rather difficult person. We agreed to one maxim -- each give the relationship 100% (rather than sharing everything 50/50). Everything else is worked out as it comes up -- just like life is. Yes, we grew to really love one another (after overcoming past damage) and our love keeps growing after 28 years together. To each his/her own but this approach doesn't feel like a relationship but rather like an employment contract. I wonder if there's a non-compete clause.
41
This was the funniest thing I've read all morning. Admittedly I was into the concept at first. And then I got to the first line on the contract. Seems Mark and Mandy have a lot of time on their hands!
Actually, your admission that your husband "manages" you sounds far more like an employer-employee relationship than this does.
I view your contract as a vehicle for dialogue, if it works for you wonderful. Contracts of course can be broken, ignored, or amended without consideration, and especially in affairs of the heart there are no warranties. I would be more concerned if one of you insisted on notarizing your signatures. In the Court of Love there is no judge.
6
If I had read this when in my twenties, I would have dismissed it. At the age of 57, it sounds like genius.
113
I personally enjoyed this article very much. I think it is important that everybody involved the relationship should have a say in what happens. Personally I do not think the agreement is necessarily needed. It just has all their agreements on paper; which is fine and nothing is wrong with that; and some people need to have it on paper. I think it is always good to know what the other person wants and how you guys can achieve your goals together peacefully. But what if you guys do not have the same values, or somebody breaks an important rule. You are stuck with that person the next x amount of months. I like the idea of it, but I am skeptical as to if it works for everybody.
5
Whatever works for two people. For the 36 years of us, talking was all that was needed. I can't think of a single thing that we were not able to resolve on the spot by talking. There are a few items I cede to her judgement and things she cedes to my judgement if only because we have different skill sets. The rest has been mutual sharing of life.
21
While my broom is being overhauled for the highly anticipated yearly October event, I thought it would be a great time to re-read and revisit this thought provoking article. I am the first to admit that at times, I can be the dumbest person I know. And while I have been associated with being old-fashion (though I see it as being comfortable in a paradigm I've know my entire life) , I realize this article was under the MODERN Love category. I showed this piece to my 30-something granddaughter and she totally got it. She stated that a lot of her friends live by a similar format, though not as structured as this one. At the end of the day, I think what is key and all that really matters is that if two people find a way to live happily and have more joy than sadness in their relationship, why should the means and how matter, especially to anyone else other than themselves? I truly wish only the best for Mandy and Mark. I hope we see more articles on the progression of their relationship, especially the marriage component. While this particular arrangement is not for me, neither is reading books from an i-Pad. I still thoroughly enjoy the feel and weight of a book, the touch and smell of the pages. It may be more cumbersome, but I like the constant reminder of cherishing someone else's gift of words. I sincerely apologize if I offended any reader with my previous post. I was merely attempting to share a different view point, albeit, poorly done.
62
A "dating contract" is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, as in the author's situation, it is a loving contemplation about the meaning of her relationship and a clear communication of expectations. Countless relationships end because expectations and needs are not clearly communicated or considered. On the other hand, if it is used improperly it could be a rigid document that is used to objectify a relationship and avoid discussion when things change. Whether it is something good or bad really depends upon the intent of the person: whether it is based on an altruistic motive of sharing and giving or a selfish motive of control.
15
Friends of mine had a marriage like this, everything spelled out and equally shared (especially finances.) Then they had children. After a few years, for various reasons, she realized that she needed to stay home with the children for a while. He insisted on sticking to the contract (especially about finances.)
The divorce was very messy.
Life is not always as rational as you would like it to be.
The divorce was very messy.
Life is not always as rational as you would like it to be.
172
It seems to me that a lot of people, in a fit of projection maybe, are assuming that this "contract" is permanent, etched in stone, inviolate, as the US Constitution is often interpreted.
But like the Constitution, this contract can be thought of as a living thing, subject to amendments. As these two do every twelve months. It strikes me as a recipe to avoid divorce, not engender one, a non sequitur in any event since they are not getting married until they are ready. Maybe not for everybody, that should go without saying, but it seems to me to be a wise solution that this couple has devised for themselves.
But like the Constitution, this contract can be thought of as a living thing, subject to amendments. As these two do every twelve months. It strikes me as a recipe to avoid divorce, not engender one, a non sequitur in any event since they are not getting married until they are ready. Maybe not for everybody, that should go without saying, but it seems to me to be a wise solution that this couple has devised for themselves.
1
Beautifully written. I'm in a "traditional" marriage, but I so enjoyed this thoughtful perspective. Thank you.
10
I too have been in all-consuming, overwhelming relationship where I lost myself. When the break-up finally came, it nearly destroyed me altogether. While love, pain and heartache are all part of the human experience and remind us that we are alive, it is not sustainable long term. I would be thrilled if I could find a relationship like the author's - kudos to her and her partner for figuring out what works for them.
52
I find this incredibly romantic because it is way more dedicated to living with conscious commitment to each other every day than any artificial construct created by the wedding industrial complex. I spent 20-plus years in a frog-in-the-hot-pot relationship which which started as a "totally lost in love" 19-year old and ended under obscene oppression and abuse that has left me with permanent damage. Now, I have partnership-based relationship in which everyone's opinions have equal weight. Sure, there are compromises, but nothing for which I feel like I've traded a little piece of my soul. It is a revelation every day to not have to shape myself to suit someone else's needs and to know that I am, in my natural state, a joyful bonus to at least one person on this planet.
However a couple can arrive at making sure both count equally in the relationship IS the most romantic notion you could have.
However a couple can arrive at making sure both count equally in the relationship IS the most romantic notion you could have.
82
I believe this article is missing the point. The contract is nothing but a facade to shield the real reason why it is needed - truth and sincerity. The "contact" represents the truth about fears and hopes of two people, where at least one of them is apprehensive about themselves. The "contact" allows them to effectively express these to each other, and that is why it is working.
I believe two people in any intimate relationship should never fear expressing their apprehensions and wishes to the other without being judged or belittled. If this requires a construct like this "contact", the so be it. But cornerstone of any relationship is ability to express your feelings to the other person. If you find yourself unable to do so, then you should also question the nature of the relationship itself.
I believe two people in any intimate relationship should never fear expressing their apprehensions and wishes to the other without being judged or belittled. If this requires a construct like this "contact", the so be it. But cornerstone of any relationship is ability to express your feelings to the other person. If you find yourself unable to do so, then you should also question the nature of the relationship itself.
42
For writers, putting thoughts on paper is clarifying, at least one person in the relationship is a writer.
13
I want to be in this relationship! I almost cried imagining the joy of an intentional relationship where both people understand each other as singular people whose singularity is part of their appeal...After nearly 20 years of an all-consuming, "true love," intuitively felt relationship, I am so ready for a different model of relationship. This relationship has nearly bulldozed me over, and requires a huge amount of vigilance merely to maintain my SELFhood. I love my husband but really don't know if I can stand to stay in this relationship much longer. Bravo to these two for their "modern love".
35
Your comments are so interesting and perplexing to me. You are in love with your husband, but it sounds like logistically it's too hard and you are considering scrapping it. I guess love is not enough. But without it, is there any hope either? Sounds like a relationship that truly works requires both. Is your husband willing to address these issues with you? I worry that you could throw out the baby with the bath water. Wishing you all the best.
Interesting piece. I do think being intentional about love is important. Everyday we have a choice to love those around us or not. Putting thoughts and intents into writing is an act of mental gymnastics that makes us think more deeply. And it helps create greater understanding. We are blessed to have the freedom to incorporate the best of religion, tradition and modernity into our lives, families and friends. Well done and thanks for sharing.
20
Rick says being intentional about love is important, and that every day we have a choice to love or not.
I could not disagree more. I have no choice whatsoever about whether I love my wife of 29 years -- any more than I have a choice about whether the sun will rise.
I maintain that if what you have is as volitional as described, and as satisfying as it may be for you, it is NOT love.
I could not disagree more. I have no choice whatsoever about whether I love my wife of 29 years -- any more than I have a choice about whether the sun will rise.
I maintain that if what you have is as volitional as described, and as satisfying as it may be for you, it is NOT love.
2
Hmmm... intentionally loving "moderately", planning for future wandering from monogamy, dismissing even a conversation about marriage...How romantic...(not)...all I can say is that this example of modern "love" pales in comparison to the ideal (which does exist) of traditional, passionate, wild romance that resulted in long, real, risky marriages and in the end TRUE, self-sacrificial LOVE. But society is so changed and so far from traditional religious views of marriage that sadly not many experience that now. This essay provides interesting insight into the plight of this generation- where is real love?
26
I think you missed a lot of this article. She stated at the end that she had fail in her goal to love moderately ... in other words she is very much in love with him. From life has shown me, people are often very monogamous in there desire to be with their spouse as a life-partner, co-parent, etc. (don't be alarmed by those words, they mean the same thing as the older words just without the gender specificities -- housework, childcare & quietly obeying isn't all on one person while yardwork, income generation/finances & decision making fall on another) but people don't tend to be so good at sexual exclusivity over the course of decades ... some people do achieve it (more often half of a couple achieves it) but not enthusiastically. Also, couples that stop having sex aren't being monogamous - they're being abstinent. It's awful when a happy marriage ends due to false teachings that a sexual contact outside marriage equals a lack of love. Traditionally marriage had little to do with religion & a lot to do with property and assurances of paternity but traditional marriage is still common in the Middle East where men who can afford it have multiple wives. Here, romantic, long real marriage not involving ownership & subjugation of women is common. But maybe "traditional religious views of marriage" was a way of complaining that same-sex couples gained equal marriage rights; Happily married straight people aren't threatened by that but those blaming others for their failures are.
2
Hoyagirl--Gag me with a spoon. Religion and rolling the dice (i.e. Carelessness) which you describe as "passion" are hardly the building blocks of s good relationship in this day and age. Who knows, maybe this generation will manage divorce rates lower than the astronomical numbers prior generations have set, because of the deliberateness in their actions.
1
I'm not married, but my boyfriend and I have been together for 18 years. Scheduling regular talks, with or without a list, is an excellent idea for couples. I agree that it's very easy for one partner to sacrifice their needs for the needs of the other without realizing that's what's happening until resentment seeps in. A list is a clear way for both partners to know what's most important for the other. Maybe it's not romantic. Falling in love is romantic. Staying in love takes effort and communication is key.
109
"That experience helped us to think about love not as luck or fate, but as the practice of really bothering to know someone, and allowing that person to know you. Being intentional about love seems to suit us well."
I know some commenters are turned off by the lack of "romance" involved with the contract, but the statement above just makes me I think it's a unique kind of romance for them. I have spent a lot of years dating and navigating the wasteland of dating sites and swipe-based dating apps. I had a reprieve from the dating world during a recent relationship, but that haven unfortunately ended due to my partner's cold feet. Dating has been exhausting due to the flaky nature of it all now, and going through a breakup -- particularly a breakup with someone who seemed like a gem after years of searching -- has been crushing.
There hasn't been a day I don't wish he could have been more intentional about love. The whole dating world could afford to be a little more intentional about love.
I know some commenters are turned off by the lack of "romance" involved with the contract, but the statement above just makes me I think it's a unique kind of romance for them. I have spent a lot of years dating and navigating the wasteland of dating sites and swipe-based dating apps. I had a reprieve from the dating world during a recent relationship, but that haven unfortunately ended due to my partner's cold feet. Dating has been exhausting due to the flaky nature of it all now, and going through a breakup -- particularly a breakup with someone who seemed like a gem after years of searching -- has been crushing.
There hasn't been a day I don't wish he could have been more intentional about love. The whole dating world could afford to be a little more intentional about love.
93
I love tour comment! It's hard out there! Keep going and remain hopeful!
I actually thought dating online was so much more intentional-- and easier than just meeting whoever one happened to meet (particularly when demanding work/ school gets in the way of a busy social life). Nothing like cold hard calculation of compatibility before mixing in hormones and chemistry, which tend to come soon enough due to proximity and attraction.
I think that used to be true in the "older" days of online dating when online dating was a bit more novel, fewer people were on dating sites, and more sites required membership fees. In more recent years, more people are on free sites and apps, and I'm guessing there aren't a lot of single people who aren't on at least on those online dating portal. Particularly with the advent of phone apps (Bumble, Hinge, Coffee Meets Bagel), online dating seems to feed a neverending "grass is greener" mentality -- the ease of flipping through profiles and the instant accessibility to all of those profiles makes it harder for people to be intentional about one person. Several of those apps have undergone major revisions to try and address the issues with flakiness. I don't know that any of them have come up with a winning formula.
Although I agree a contract - or other written understanding - is a good idea, sadly I can attest it's not enough if one partner is intent on not living up to their end of the bargain.
In my case we did exactly as suggested. Routine physical intimacy was important to me - and although it seemed inconceivable to me at the time this would ever be an issue, that I made clear that I was NOT getting married to become celibate. BUT like the frog in the increasingly hot water, after the wedding frequency dropped, picked up a bit when trying to get pregnant, and then went to nothing post-kids.
Discussions to remind her of her commitment resulted in new conditions on her unconditional love - more chores on top of being the only partner with a job and income. With my new obligations met, I expected love - but celibacy 360 days a year continued - until the next argument/conversation, with more new conditions to be met before intimacy would be offered - rinse and repeat.
Over time, I learned not to trust her - and not to complain lest I be given more conditions for her unconditional love - until that broken trust was just too great to overcome. She resented being desired - and I complied. I stopped desiring her.
Today I'm happily divorced and in a great relationship with a woman who would never violate the trust of commitment to each other.
As for her, well she made her bed - now she must sleep in it - alone.
In my case we did exactly as suggested. Routine physical intimacy was important to me - and although it seemed inconceivable to me at the time this would ever be an issue, that I made clear that I was NOT getting married to become celibate. BUT like the frog in the increasingly hot water, after the wedding frequency dropped, picked up a bit when trying to get pregnant, and then went to nothing post-kids.
Discussions to remind her of her commitment resulted in new conditions on her unconditional love - more chores on top of being the only partner with a job and income. With my new obligations met, I expected love - but celibacy 360 days a year continued - until the next argument/conversation, with more new conditions to be met before intimacy would be offered - rinse and repeat.
Over time, I learned not to trust her - and not to complain lest I be given more conditions for her unconditional love - until that broken trust was just too great to overcome. She resented being desired - and I complied. I stopped desiring her.
Today I'm happily divorced and in a great relationship with a woman who would never violate the trust of commitment to each other.
As for her, well she made her bed - now she must sleep in it - alone.
43
"she resented being desired - and I complied" how sad for both her and you.....you are right to get out of that situation.....that's an irreconcilable difference! Best wishes on your new relationship!
4
Maybe she wasn't enjoying the sexual intimacy with you. Did that ever occur to you? A lot of men aren't nearly as good at it as they seem to think.
I don't think I could do what Mandy and Mark do, probably because I view it as unromantic and, frankly, it sounds a lot like Sheldon's roommate agreement on The Big Bang Theory.
But I developed a simple test for myself when I met a woman I really cared about. What drove me was the desire to be the best version of me I could be, to make her as happy in the relationship as I could. So I constantly ask myself one simple question: "Is this the best I can be?" Sometimes I simply have to admit that it's not and change what I am doing or how I am doing it.
So far it seems to be working. Or she is just a saint, sent down to save me.
But I developed a simple test for myself when I met a woman I really cared about. What drove me was the desire to be the best version of me I could be, to make her as happy in the relationship as I could. So I constantly ask myself one simple question: "Is this the best I can be?" Sometimes I simply have to admit that it's not and change what I am doing or how I am doing it.
So far it seems to be working. Or she is just a saint, sent down to save me.
240
Mr. Sonville - an incredible post, especially your last sentence. You are a romantic at heart. Nicely done.
27
Is it our job to make our partner happy? Maybe this is just an ineffective word choice, but we shouldn't put that burden on ourselves OR our partner. Each of us is responsible for our own happiness. I don't see how it can be healthy to expect someone else to make you happy.
3
Lia, I didn't say she should expect me to make her happy. I said that I would try to be my best self because I loved her and wanted to make her happy. Big difference.
12
I can definitely appreciate how, given Mandy's previous relationship, such a contract is helpful for her. Prior to getting married though, I had a lot of relationship experience spanning from long-term-serious to fling to sex-only to polyamory. I found myself in a similar place as she did or twice, but for me it would never last longer than a few months because I'm too headstrong to stand it (my favourite example being the one where I had to cheat on the guy: he wasold-fashioned and coercive, wouldn't take any other trespass as reason enough to break up, and he always had the final say. The look on his face... makes a great story now).
The relationships that followed those were the ones where I learned to find myself and be myself within them. It took time and trying and, most of all, learning to speak up. Eventually, I stopped being afraid to talk about things. That is what makes my marriage great: there is never a bad time to talk about it, if we've got a good venue (privacy when privacy is needed, etc). In three years we've dealt with with two deaths, major illness and unexpected unemployment. I don't think a contract could have helped us figure out how to weather it any better than we did. How we manage the minutiae of our shared life, ditto: if it needs doing, one of us does it or asks about it; no one is 'supposed to.' I commend Mandy on finding a strategy that is working, and wish both all the best—and that they continue to grow within their love.
The relationships that followed those were the ones where I learned to find myself and be myself within them. It took time and trying and, most of all, learning to speak up. Eventually, I stopped being afraid to talk about things. That is what makes my marriage great: there is never a bad time to talk about it, if we've got a good venue (privacy when privacy is needed, etc). In three years we've dealt with with two deaths, major illness and unexpected unemployment. I don't think a contract could have helped us figure out how to weather it any better than we did. How we manage the minutiae of our shared life, ditto: if it needs doing, one of us does it or asks about it; no one is 'supposed to.' I commend Mandy on finding a strategy that is working, and wish both all the best—and that they continue to grow within their love.
15
Actually, If I got it right, this is the most un-romantic relationship I have ever seen.
It starts with: "We aspire to help each other be more ethically-minded and generous friends, community members and global citizens."
Well, the way I view it, that is a statement that each one of us has to negotiate with oneself in relationship with the people who we relate to.
With a lover? I would say: "I want to be with you, because only being with you, and nobody else, I can see how life is beautiful and rich and powerful and satisfying and fulfilling. And I my strongest wish is you feeling the same way toward me. I will be do doing anything in my power to work in all aspects of my life, from the most mundane to the most cerebral, to perpetuate this state of being as long as possible".
Or equivalent statements...
But... I guess there are many types of love. Mine is not the one described in this column.
It starts with: "We aspire to help each other be more ethically-minded and generous friends, community members and global citizens."
Well, the way I view it, that is a statement that each one of us has to negotiate with oneself in relationship with the people who we relate to.
With a lover? I would say: "I want to be with you, because only being with you, and nobody else, I can see how life is beautiful and rich and powerful and satisfying and fulfilling. And I my strongest wish is you feeling the same way toward me. I will be do doing anything in my power to work in all aspects of my life, from the most mundane to the most cerebral, to perpetuate this state of being as long as possible".
Or equivalent statements...
But... I guess there are many types of love. Mine is not the one described in this column.
73
Marriage contract has been on my mind for a long time. I blogged about it six years ago. I've consulted a female matrimonial attorney who's against it: "... unfair to women..." Even I failed to see why. In any case, marriage is between two people. Each one is so unique. So, there isn't a one-fit-all formula. Also, each one is growing ... To make a relationship work, comprise and consideration may be the best medicine.
11
We have been happily married for decades now - we have five children. We have one annual test: how have we made the other fly?
Thank you for sharing yours.
Thank you for sharing yours.
35
The hallmark of my flawed existence is the alertness to my life that I can enjoy thanks to my wife (name furnished upon request). Definitely not a zero-sum game. And I enjoy much of what I enjoy because she's helped me to see what what was invisible to me when I was alone. Lust became ambition became responsibility became gratitude. And we still have the periodic row and there are avoided conversations amidst our personal secrets. Cocktail hour helps. A votre sante.
72
Thank you for your generosity to share. Loved reading your story. Who are any of us to judge? Best wishes to you both.
22
What happens when you disagree? Does your relationship end or does one person give into the other's needs? What happens when the stakes are higher? Once you have kids? Would you be honest or will you lie to keep the peace? It isn't the contract that is important, it is the ability to have honest and open conversations with your partner - at any time - not just when your contract is up.
28
We met 20 years ago, and have been married for 14. We had each been married before, so wanted to feel pretty sure before we tried it again. But after almost 6 years we felt married already, in the best possible way. So that is why we decided to get married legally, to ensure that "if one of us in the hospital, the other one gets to be in the room." Or as my husband puts it, "if one of us falls down the stairs, the other one is there to call 911." We are about to turn 72 (him) and 68 (me), and are still very happy 90% of the time, ready to work on the other 10%, and completely committed for 100%. All of our money is just that--both of ours--regardless of the source. Who does what (bill paying, cleaning, bed making, etc) has evolved naturally, using the rule "whoever can't stand it not being done yet first does it." All of our big decisions are mutual. He is kind, funny, bright, and very fair, and I feel blessed. I feel that the best time to get married is when you already are. Then you can just have a big party and enjoy whatever date you have chosen as your special day.
95
Either this speaks to you, or it does not. There is, however, absolutely no reason for it to make you angry; apart from the fact half of America seems to be in waiting for a chance to pounce on something like this. I hope every 20 year old woman, and 30 come to that, reads and pays special attention to the part about losing yourself in a relationship. I am a strong, feminist gay woman and it happened to me. Male or female does not matter, women tend to concede. I don't think I could go the contract route, although my partner is a Sheldon (Big Bang) and it might appeal to her. That said, I'd like to incorporate a lot of this into my relationship. The first column left me cold but this one has wisdom.
19
I feel as though because the author has lost all control over self and relationship for 10 years, she is desperately trying to regain it even though her current partner does not compare to the first egocentric husband. Hence the need to have it all down on paper and make sure it is followed - it is all about having a sense of control.
If "the contract" helps this couple and they want to be so intentional about it all, then good for them, but it does not strike as some general recipe for happiness/staying in love. Looks like these people have lots of time at their hands too. I definitely don't need/have time to type a mundane task distribution into a contract. We have sorted these tasks the very first time we were doing them together. When situation changes, we adjust too. I also love surprises and spontaneity and don't want to be restricted by following some contract.
For me having an open communication is most important, if you feel overwhelmed and unfairly treated, don't wait for 10 years and then leave... speak up.
If "the contract" helps this couple and they want to be so intentional about it all, then good for them, but it does not strike as some general recipe for happiness/staying in love. Looks like these people have lots of time at their hands too. I definitely don't need/have time to type a mundane task distribution into a contract. We have sorted these tasks the very first time we were doing them together. When situation changes, we adjust too. I also love surprises and spontaneity and don't want to be restricted by following some contract.
For me having an open communication is most important, if you feel overwhelmed and unfairly treated, don't wait for 10 years and then leave... speak up.
16
Happily married for 37 years, I attribute a lot to luck and low expectations.
When things just keep getting better, maybe good luck is playing a part.
If you do not get what I mean by low expectations, your expectations are probably way too high.
When things just keep getting better, maybe good luck is playing a part.
If you do not get what I mean by low expectations, your expectations are probably way too high.
28
The paragraph about "splitting the bill in half except for celebrations" made me roll my eyes.
I have been married 36 years. As a product of the 60's Women's Movement, I went into it thinking everything had to be exactly equal. I had a rude awakening. It was actually unfair of me to expect my then medical resident husband to do an equal amount of housework when he did not get an equal amount of sleep. Nor should he have expected me to put in an equal amount of money to the rent or groceries when I made half as much as he did. The point being that marriage is a commitment to share your life and your future. After 36 years, I have learned that things are not always equal at the same time but they even themselves out OVER time. Living together is not the same. It is focused on the present only.
It seems that an immature first relationship where the author "lost herself" forced this extreme opposite approach to ensure her sense of self. I hope over time, you both will learn to trust and relax a bit more. If this contract helps, then that is a good thing. You will then be ready for marriage.
I have been married 36 years. As a product of the 60's Women's Movement, I went into it thinking everything had to be exactly equal. I had a rude awakening. It was actually unfair of me to expect my then medical resident husband to do an equal amount of housework when he did not get an equal amount of sleep. Nor should he have expected me to put in an equal amount of money to the rent or groceries when I made half as much as he did. The point being that marriage is a commitment to share your life and your future. After 36 years, I have learned that things are not always equal at the same time but they even themselves out OVER time. Living together is not the same. It is focused on the present only.
It seems that an immature first relationship where the author "lost herself" forced this extreme opposite approach to ensure her sense of self. I hope over time, you both will learn to trust and relax a bit more. If this contract helps, then that is a good thing. You will then be ready for marriage.
347
You don't need to roll your eyes. This is about what works for the author. It's not a judgment against anyone else. You don't need to judge either. Good for you that you've perfected your relationship so much that you have time to look over the fence and tsk at your neighbors'.
31
Excuse me Jennifer, but isn't your comment judgmental? I do not find Deborah's remark in the least disrespectful. I have noticed varying schools of thought regarding this article and what I find most distressing is many of the comments are not kind nor respectful towards differing opinions. I think it is very healthy to have different views, but when I read rude and borderline mean reactions to some comments, I am greatly disappointed and offended. Agreeing to disagree without negativity is not a lot to hope for.
51
I'm a veteran of the second wave of the women's movement and dated too many women to count who found it a test of their womanhood to allow anyone to gift a dinner out.
That aside, if this approach saves this couple thousands, maybe tens of thousands of $s of couples therapy, I am 100% for it.
That aside, if this approach saves this couple thousands, maybe tens of thousands of $s of couples therapy, I am 100% for it.
1
Bravo to the author for her personal growth. I think this was a healthy response to previously unhealthy relationships dynamics. I can see how this can he helpful for people who struggle with power / control dynamics. I can relate to this woman, having lost herself in previous relationships, and now being empowered by defining the terms of her current relationship - this is progress and personal growth! I also think it's key that the contract has an element of flexibility, that it serves as a guide and not necessarily totally binding or whatever.
15
I love this! Thanks for sharing
9
"I know that a lifetime commitment is supposed to involve a surprise proposal, a tearful acceptance and a Facebook slide show of happy selfies."
Sitcoms are the main source of American wisdom, but not for true priestesses of love, like yourself.
Sitcoms are the main source of American wisdom, but not for true priestesses of love, like yourself.
12
This is an excellent idea. I hope my wife doesn't see this article because I will end up doing a lot more laundry.
44
This sounds perfect for people who color-code their sock drawer and count their peas to make sure they didn't get shortchanged.
Too cold and clinical for me, but whatever makes you happy.
Too cold and clinical for me, but whatever makes you happy.
59
When love takes this much work, thought, and analysis, is it still love?
36
Dr. Lieu - I think that is an excellent question.
8
Yes. It indeed is.
15
If something as important as love does not take work and thought, how important and long-lasting can it be? People aren't up to being loving all the time without work and thought.....being our best selves takes that.
4
My oldest and dearest friend has been married for forty happy years to a man who is her polar opposite personality wise. They are both opinionated as well. But every five years they go over their relationship with a fine tooth comb. From the mundane (where to vacation, who is responsible for pool maintenance) to the truly important (How they will prepare for retirement, investments, charities and causes they want to support). They spend a few weeks seeing their lawyer and accountant. They each bring new ideas to the table. When they are done, they commit themselves to their plan for five years.
They just finished their eighth "5 Year Plan" and still love and support each other. This seems to have strengthened their relationship, not because they can't break their "contract" but because they have a plan and they know exactly what is expected and what they each need to do to achieve the results they want.
From what I can see it works like a charm for them.
They just finished their eighth "5 Year Plan" and still love and support each other. This seems to have strengthened their relationship, not because they can't break their "contract" but because they have a plan and they know exactly what is expected and what they each need to do to achieve the results they want.
From what I can see it works like a charm for them.
152
Mandy, next year when you review the situation, you can expand on what you would like or dislike in a wedding. There is no reason you have to pay for an elaborate event. You can have a nice dinner celebration with a small group in your stunningly gorgeous city of Vancouver, and save money for your grand great trip someplace in the world for just the two of you.. or put the money into an account for a house. Or whatever you desire.
I hope you will be as happily married as my husband and I still are after just celebrating our 35th anniversary.
I hope you will be as happily married as my husband and I still are after just celebrating our 35th anniversary.
22
I do hope that the author knows that a marriage ISN'T "supposed to involve a surprise proposal" and the rest that she named. Very few proposals are surprises, and that makes sense. Whether couples are as intentional and thorough as the author, YOUR relationship gets to be whatever you and your partner want it to be. Including the proposal (if one happens) and the wedding (ditto).
13
Very true, Lyn. My proposal was a surprise, and I am now divorcing. I think it would have been better if we had discussed it beforehand, but we did not. It was a sign of the nature of our relationship. This author talks about how her previous relationship didn't have "room for me" and my marriage was the same. There was no room for me or my needs/wants. Just his.
8
Cate: I couldn't agree more completely with you. Mine was a surprise as well and one that I was not prepared for, nor did I want to do. But rather than say no, I said yes (incredibly reluctantly), and forward we went. We are now divorced.
9
My husband's proposal was a surprise (though we knew we were in it for the long haul), and I still love him to bits.
Being able to communicate well, and make each other laugh, are the keys to a healthy marriage.
Being able to communicate well, and make each other laugh, are the keys to a healthy marriage.
8
The contract is cute but I think it is a symptom of something else -- a desire to control too much and defer hard decisions. Growing as a person requires accepting risk and putting yourself out there. Another one year contract is just reliving last year with tweaks. Major life steps, like children, require a stronger commitment than one year at a time. Don't contract your possibilities for a fuller life.
29
Well said!
I love the way this couple was able to examine expectations and assumptions, identify needs, and match things up. I married late (52) to a man 25 years my senior who had lost 2 wives (both of whom I knew) to cancer. His expectations were somewhat different than mine, due in part to the norms of his generation, but he adapted as did I. If he were a different kind of person, I would love (would have loved) to do some explicit and articulate analysis and planning. But we made it work anyway. I really appreciate this essay.
14
The happiest married couple I ever knew had been together for 25 years and lived in separate houses the whole time. When they married, neither wanted to sell the home they had, so they just kept them. He'd spend a few days/nights at hers and vice versa. They'd have a couple days/nights when they would each be in their own homes. They claimed it made them appreciate their time together more, they didn't get on each other's nerves and feel they were joined at the hip and they each had time alone. It seemed to work for them.
There are lots of ways of being together. Everyone doesn't have to do it the same way. Anyone who finds a way to make it work is lucky.
There are lots of ways of being together. Everyone doesn't have to do it the same way. Anyone who finds a way to make it work is lucky.
249
This sounds like my dream marriage. I could never afford it in New York, though.
10
Unless you each had rent controlled apartments and giving them up for a bigger new one would be MORE expensive.
6
I'm doing that now. My SO and I own homes around the corner from one another. Sleepovers occur regularly ... except during baseball season when I get to stay at my house watching 'Grantchester'while he spends full days on MLB Network. :)
2
Great idea!
When you write a contract, duties and expectations become less nebulous and negotiable and heart-breaking. If i had known to make a contract during my last live-in relationship it would have read something like this:
R will babysit D's children all summer. D will not discipline the children so that they are respectful to R.
R will give up yoga, choir, and other activities and watch stock car racing on TV with D.
D. will not do any house or lawn work except mowing because the house belongs to R.
D. will use foul language whenever he wants despite R's protestations.
D. is entitled to be depressed. R. is not.
Etc.
When the realities of a relationship are in print, it's so much easier to see what you're in for and to bail out in a timely manner.
When you write a contract, duties and expectations become less nebulous and negotiable and heart-breaking. If i had known to make a contract during my last live-in relationship it would have read something like this:
R will babysit D's children all summer. D will not discipline the children so that they are respectful to R.
R will give up yoga, choir, and other activities and watch stock car racing on TV with D.
D. will not do any house or lawn work except mowing because the house belongs to R.
D. will use foul language whenever he wants despite R's protestations.
D. is entitled to be depressed. R. is not.
Etc.
When the realities of a relationship are in print, it's so much easier to see what you're in for and to bail out in a timely manner.
63
Sorry for your bad relationship. I wonder what D would write about it?
6
You can actually skip the wedding (a good idea, IMHO). Apply for the BC marriage license (go to a marriage license issuer) as a first step. If you are both Jewish, one of the three Conservative synagogues can marry you in the rabbi's study. I recommend the one in Richmond as the new (wonderful) rabbi was the assistant rabbi at our synagogue). If either of you are not Jewish, you can go to go to a marriage commissioner and have that person marry you. You'll get the marriage certificate a few weeks later.
Why do it? Just because your contract is wonderful, but it won't help you in legal situations in Canada or the US (such as next-of-kin permission requirements) and some contract situations (trivial example--many rental car companies require additional forms and payments if the second person is not a legal family member).
You can wait as long as you choose but my hope is that you don't wait until you wished you had done it but didn't.
Not very romantic? Your contract isn't (and I fully support what you have done) but my believe is that a successful marriage is built on something far more sturdy than romance and it appears you have the foundation for marriage if you choose it..
Why do it? Just because your contract is wonderful, but it won't help you in legal situations in Canada or the US (such as next-of-kin permission requirements) and some contract situations (trivial example--many rental car companies require additional forms and payments if the second person is not a legal family member).
You can wait as long as you choose but my hope is that you don't wait until you wished you had done it but didn't.
Not very romantic? Your contract isn't (and I fully support what you have done) but my believe is that a successful marriage is built on something far more sturdy than romance and it appears you have the foundation for marriage if you choose it..
21
This kind of transactional attitude is why I never used a chore chart for my children.
24
I just married my best friend, who I have been with for 4 years. We do not have a written contract, but the ideas expressed in the article are very familiar to both of us and we could easily adopt writing it down. Making everything intentional has been the core of our life. In a world where most of my relationship models at their root were about control, negotiation and spontaneity were not natural at the start but now we could not live without them. There are things we both care about; things only one of us cares about; and things neither of us care much about (like an uptight expensive wedding). We sorted these things out into their proper priority. We didn't take a honeymoon -- we both feel like everyday of our lives the past 4 years have been a honeymoon. Best wishes to Mark and Mandy!
26
OK, Mandy, he was talking about "Marriage", not about "Wedding". Marriage is more or less what you already have and appears to be functioning well (less the legal paperwork). Wedding is the celebration some people need for one reason or the other, like telling the world they are grown ups, or spending the money they don't have so they can make their friends jealous. I got married without spending any money in a wedding, because we both agreed that marriage was what was important. Soon it wil be 36 years, and I don't regret our decision. So maybe next year when you renew your contract you can go ahead and get married. You can skip the proposal, the acceptance and the selfies.
97
My husband had been married before. He and his wife eloped and were married by a Justice of the Peace with a friend present. They made no big deal of it. Two years later, just after their baby was born, she died. Many people didn't even know he had been married. It was a traumatizing experience for him.
I didn't care how we got married, but he did. We had an enormous, cheap party. All our family and friends came. We had pictures taken. Everyone knew we were married. Great fun was had by all. The commitment in front of family and friends is what was important to him. I think people who have gone through traumatic events think differently about things. And I appreciate going back sometimes and looking at our 40 year younger selves in the pictures.
I didn't care how we got married, but he did. We had an enormous, cheap party. All our family and friends came. We had pictures taken. Everyone knew we were married. Great fun was had by all. The commitment in front of family and friends is what was important to him. I think people who have gone through traumatic events think differently about things. And I appreciate going back sometimes and looking at our 40 year younger selves in the pictures.
1
My husband wanted the nice wedding, not me. So, as a bottom-line-minded engineer, I totally get that a wedding seems like a waste of time and money. Despite all that, weddings move me to tears, and are a beautiful celebration for the entire family and friends who support the couple. You could think the party is a waste of money, or you could think love and life are too precious not to be celebrated and enjoyed.
"I made my life look like his." I think this happens more often that we know, and I think the subtext is: "And in that, I wasn't honouring my own needs". (Some people have no issues having their identities inextricably intertwined with another). When we slide into patterns of feeling more like another than ourselves, we need methodical tools to help find a better way to love ourselves. I think this intentional approach can help a relationship - whether it lasts or not - come through without having to use contempt, withdrawal or disrespect. There are some out there who naturally know how to communicate in a caring way through uncomfortable discussions, and who somehow luckily meet partners who are the same. (High fives for those of you who don't think this tool is necessary for your relationship). For the rest of us, having a tool (and this is a good one!) for communicating makes sure that we LEARN how to be more caring, respectful, responsible, and understanding toward those we love. Of course the contract won't cover everything that may ever happen. That's not the point. Making and reviewing a contract is how we practice being kind to one another and how we practice taking responsibility for our needs. Because I know I need the practice.
31
People are weird. There are many paths of happiness. I hope the one you chose works for you.
27
Sorry you are still waiting for that NBA title. You could consider moving to the Bay Area to remedy that. Agree there are many paths to happiness, though.
9
My first thought was, "Well, this might work for weirdo over-analytical types like you two obviously are," but upon reading the full article, it actually makes sense for everyone. Their sex section doesn't spell out frequency or type, it just says, "Monogamous (for now)."
They basically have had the important conversations every couple should have - the only thing is that they've put it down in writing and called it a "contract." It sounds awfully unromantic. But definition-wise, no different that the more romantic "Vows." Seems like this couple needs some PR skills...then again, they've been published twice in NYT.
And they have an annual review! How sweet that they only need to review it annually...I would say verbally, my marriage's "contract" is being renegotiated daily, given the unexpected logistical issues that come up with a family for 4. In fact, 4 pages seems awfully short in retrospect, when thinking of all the things we have to agree on re: finances, religion, raising kids/pets, monogamy, houseguests, housework, health directives, and how long one is allowed to stay in the bathroom.
They basically have had the important conversations every couple should have - the only thing is that they've put it down in writing and called it a "contract." It sounds awfully unromantic. But definition-wise, no different that the more romantic "Vows." Seems like this couple needs some PR skills...then again, they've been published twice in NYT.
And they have an annual review! How sweet that they only need to review it annually...I would say verbally, my marriage's "contract" is being renegotiated daily, given the unexpected logistical issues that come up with a family for 4. In fact, 4 pages seems awfully short in retrospect, when thinking of all the things we have to agree on re: finances, religion, raising kids/pets, monogamy, houseguests, housework, health directives, and how long one is allowed to stay in the bathroom.
23
Do you have more than one bathroom? If not, I hope you can manage to add one.
Married since the dinosaurs roamed the earth and so have way too much hindsight. There's a lot of "ME-ing" in Mandy Len Catron's analysis of what is needed in a healthy relationship - something that would never have occurred to me all those years ago when I was breathily in love with the idea of love and white picket fences. But, it seems to me that her relationship contract is not necessarily as Sheldon-esque (BBT) as it appears on the surface. Many relationships/marriages would benefit from a once a year review of marital activities and responsibilities. A yearly frank face-to-face discussion (if the parties involved can put down their devices) might produce some exceptional dividends, and perhaps something that resembles peace and happiness. Sometimes we are totally ignorant of the obvious!
121
Will your contract include what will happen when one of you loses a job, or has to deal with taking care of a sick parent, or gets cancer and faces insurmountable bills? Don't get me wrong, communicating your expectations is a wonderful thing in a marriage, but you suppose everything you will deal with will be a routine matter, which can be solved by rational discussion. My marriage was tested when our first child died. There is no contract that can shield you from having to weather what life throws at you.
416
Alexandra - I completely share your sentiments. Life is grand when things are going well and according to the plan. But when tragedy and other overwhelming realities overshadow the established routine, then what? I love your last sentence - it sums up my thoughts precisely. Deepest condolences on your loss.
23
You have faced one of the most terrifying, difficult situations that can occur. I am sorry for your loss and I know that this situation would be beyond difficult for any couple I know.
9
Consult "The Roommate Agreement," by "Sheldon Leonard," in "The Big Bang Theory?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/12/sheldon-roommate-agreement-big-...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/12/sheldon-roommate-agreement-big-...
Well - Having gotten married for the first time at the age of 60 - this is a great idea and I just sent it to my husband. I know EXACTLY what she is talking about. Women (in general) tend to make concessions in order to make the relationship work, becasue that is what we learned from our parents. Then we distort ourselves and end up unhappy. I emailed this to my husband. There is no issue with our love. We love each other, we want to live until death do us part, but in the meantime, it will be better for me, and ultimately better for him, and therefore for the relationship, if the ground rules are sorted. We went through therapy once, but then everything settled back into the original rut. Me - motivated, Him - not bothered. And these aren't big things...but its the small things that build up over time that start chipping away at the foundation and just become joy-killing. My husband lost his job and is home 24/7 with no hobbies. I work from home. We need a contract!!!
135
My only thought is, what is the need for a written contract? Why not agree to be open and honest, and get things out on the table when something seems amiss?
Try it. You might like the spontaneity. You might catch each other when you fall.
Try it. You might like the spontaneity. You might catch each other when you fall.
19
Good for you. The one comment that's already posted is predictably quibbling with your lack of "spontaneity," but I think that anything that helps people communicate their needs to each other is a great tool. Wishing you the best of luck.
26
Marge, I have exactly the opposite reaction to this piece. I think their approach is brilliant. I too have been married 30 years and know from experience that mismatched/misunderstood expectations are the source of many conflicts. Often neither party knows what their own expectations are. Having a format and writing it down forces each person to think about what they really want, need and hope for longer term, beyond the heat of first love.
Spontaneity is great when deciding which restaurant to go to or what to do on a suddenly free weekend. It's not so great when figuring out how to keep the household running smoothly and how you want to handle money issues.
Some potential conflict areas can be made explicit and concrete and some can't. Expectations/hopes aren't demands or requirements. Assuming both parties approach them with flexibility and good faith, agreements like these could help a lot of couples.
Spontaneity is great when deciding which restaurant to go to or what to do on a suddenly free weekend. It's not so great when figuring out how to keep the household running smoothly and how you want to handle money issues.
Some potential conflict areas can be made explicit and concrete and some can't. Expectations/hopes aren't demands or requirements. Assuming both parties approach them with flexibility and good faith, agreements like these could help a lot of couples.
179
Hello Mr. Wilkowske. I think you make some extremely valid points. Perhaps it was how this article was presented, with such regimentation that made me wince a little. My reference point is my own life and my own marriage. Not to sound Pollyanna or anything, but I just knew when I met my husband, we would be together. Granted, like every relationship, we have cloudy days, occasional stormy ones too, but overall, a happy, blissful relationship that continues to grow stronger each day. I guess the difference between this article and my relationship is that my husband and I TALK and share stuff all of the time. We don't need to keep track and write things down in the form of a contract or list rules and/or expectations of who does what when. My bottom line - who is anyone to judge another's personal life? If signing on the dotted line works for this couple - Mazel Tov. Couples should do whatever is best for them - PERIOD. This was a very interesting article and a different way of seeing how a couple grapples with their relationship. It's not for me, but that's irrelevant. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and carving out a different way of viewing things. Your insight was much appreciated.
18
I am so lucky. My partner and I have been together for 23 years. We travel together and alone, work together, take our own space but love spending time together. He does the laundry most of the time (my back has been hurting lately), but I make the bed every day (he doesn't really care about tidy sheets at night). We both do dishes and cook breakfast, unconsciously taking turns, do marketing together. We don't fight, but we don't agree on everything. I just don't know how I got so lucky...
50
You are lucky. I am envious. But then again, the night is young....
5
Catron writes: "I resolved that in my next relationship I would love more moderately, keeping more of me for myself." As though love can or should be meted out in increments.
If partners love each other fully and honestly -- which means that each wants what's best for the other -- there is no risk of losing oneself.
If partners love each other fully and honestly -- which means that each wants what's best for the other -- there is no risk of losing oneself.
31
This is one of the most inspiring things I've ever read. What could be more joyous than to find a partner with whom you can have total openness?
34
“Mark and Mandy’s Relationship Contract,” a four-page, single-spaced document that we sign and date, will last for exactly 12 months, after which we have the option to revise and renew it. The contract spells out everything from sex to chores to finances to our expectations for the future.”
My initial reaction was “where is the spontaneity?” and my second reaction was I thought I was reading about two robots who have mechanical hearts and operate on an Apple system instead of a Windows system.
Every successful relationship has its own unique blend of sweet and salty, spicy and unsavory which works for that bond and commitment. It was truly love at first sight when I met my husband. It took him a while longer to realize I was the gal for him. We’ve been together for over 30 years and we both feel like we love each other more with each passing day. The only contract that ever existed is the one from the Court House in Wisconsin.
Maybe today’s younger couples feel more secure and focused having a relationship clearly defined and spelled out, black and white, on paper (or computer). The moment one has to “program in” time for romance, sex or anything else other than medical appointments and/or work out schedules, I sigh and wonder how any relationship, much less a marriage, could ever last a life time. I see no margin for the unexpected, no flexibility -“if it’s not in the contract, it does not exist”. And here I thought I dog’s life was pretty regimented.
27
Marge, you start out acknowledging that 'every successful relationship has its own unique blend" of attributes, but then you go on to criticize the author's relationship because it's not like the type you prefer. The author seems delighted with the relationship she and her lover have crafted. Why is that not cause for celebration rather than snide comments about "programmed" romance and regimentation?
66
I disagree that this is a new thing the crazy young folks are doing. It's just that there used to be a presumption of marriage and the church pastor would lead the couple through counseling before marriage. Also, there were much stronger social norms, so people assumed that they would be monogamous, the men would perform certain tasks and women others, men would handle the money, etc. Now, all of those topics are open for discussion, and I, for one, think that reviewing your feelings on those issues with your partner so that you can agree, compromise, etc., is a beautiful and loving thing to do. I know that when my now husband and I started combining money, we had a similar conversation- down to how much cash we would each have to spend on lunches out during the work day. And because we know we're on the same page about money, any conflicts that come up in that area are easy to address. I'm thinking maybe a broader conversation would be really helpful to us. And I promise, regardless of how detailed we are about who walks the dog, no marriage is without the unexpected.
26
Kate - it was NOT my intent to criticize the author's relationship or to offend you or any other reader. I sincerely apologize if my comment even remotely suggested that. However, I must respectfully disagree with your interpretation that anything I wrote was "snide" or critical in nature, but merely a differing opinion. When the author's own words state "The contract spells out everything from sex to chores to finances to our expectations for the future" I see that as regimented. I really do apologize if my comments offended or upset you. There should be no cause for such harshness towards a different, objective outlook.
14