What about the collusion investigation? Apparently a moot issue. Thank you, liberal Democrats who are in denial of your Nov. 8 thrashing for diverting the nation's attention from reality and for wasting enormous time and energy.
1
The only way for us to avoid a pointless war or possibly nuclear annihilation is to simultaneously march on Washington D.C., Manhatten, and Mar-a-Lago to demand we withdraw completely from Syria, and maybe Iraq and Afghanistan.
DJT has assigned all decisions about assignment, use of our military to a general. This event brings to mind a favorite aphorism: When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
This is all about oil. No one would care about Syria if it had no oil. With the ex-CEO of Exxon as Secretary of State and few staff to keep an eye on him, he seems to be representing US interests in the oil game while Russia, with oil as its only real export other than vodka, wants to extend its energy monopoly to the Middle East. It is no coincidence that Trump's first visit was to Saudi Arabia, a nasty dictatorship all its own that seems OK by US standards - and pulled out of the Paris Climate Deal - its all about oil, energy and likely how much money Trump can make for himself. That's why Syria could get dangerous even if just by sucking the US into a war it can't get out of like Afghanistan or Iraq. And then, so much for a balanced budget!
1
So the Syrian military bombed an area being defended by US and allies against ISIS rebels and suddenly the US is the bad guy? It's not like Syria and Russia don't know where each other are. Could have been a mistake, but not hearing that. Don't know the answer to Syria (or for that matter, the rest of the middle east and Africa and Russia and north Korea, etc.), but it seems that too many here act like it's simple; pull out and resist trump. Don't think that's the answer.
The Russians institute a "No Fly" zone? What will POTUS do now? So sad!
President Trump's impulsiveness leaves me concerned about whether he will do the right things under pressure and think things through coolly and analytically, and consider all of the available options and all scenarios - worst case, best case and everything in between.
Things could quickly spiral out of control in Syria, North Korea, the South China Sea and Ukraine. A miscalculation could lead to war.
President Trump is the Commander-in-Chief and claimed during last year's presidential campaign that he knew more than the generals. And that he was the only one who could fix things. Ok then, what is Trump and his administration's strategy?
Things could quickly spiral out of control in Syria, North Korea, the South China Sea and Ukraine. A miscalculation could lead to war.
President Trump is the Commander-in-Chief and claimed during last year's presidential campaign that he knew more than the generals. And that he was the only one who could fix things. Ok then, what is Trump and his administration's strategy?
2
the red line is here, do not cross it, enough is enough
There is a lack of a Middle East Policy not only in the US State Department, but in all the countries of the EU as well.
We really got along better with the various dictators who kept the population in check. We got all excited when the Arab Spring happened. The US and EU thought that this would usher in a period of Democratic Liberalism. When the people shouted "we want democracy" it never occurred to anyone to ask what kind of democracy they wanted. Surely it would be like the democracy in the West.
We were surprised and shocked to discover that their version of democracy was the installation of government which were theocratic in nature and insisted on a strict interpretation of the Quran. Remember Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - we hailed his victory in Egypt's nationwide Election. He sits in jail now and the military is running the country.
In some countries civil society collapsed and ushered in a bloody, factional civil war as in Libya or Iraq and Syria.
It is folly to think the the US or the EU can go into these countries and transform them. The best we can hope to do is put an end to the extremist who want to go back to the 7th century where every Shura of the Quran must be obeyed to the letter.
We would do well to abandon our adventurism in the Middle East. We don't really understand the area, its language, history and culture. Look at Afghanistan - the US has been their 15 years and is still losing the war.
We really got along better with the various dictators who kept the population in check. We got all excited when the Arab Spring happened. The US and EU thought that this would usher in a period of Democratic Liberalism. When the people shouted "we want democracy" it never occurred to anyone to ask what kind of democracy they wanted. Surely it would be like the democracy in the West.
We were surprised and shocked to discover that their version of democracy was the installation of government which were theocratic in nature and insisted on a strict interpretation of the Quran. Remember Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt - we hailed his victory in Egypt's nationwide Election. He sits in jail now and the military is running the country.
In some countries civil society collapsed and ushered in a bloody, factional civil war as in Libya or Iraq and Syria.
It is folly to think the the US or the EU can go into these countries and transform them. The best we can hope to do is put an end to the extremist who want to go back to the 7th century where every Shura of the Quran must be obeyed to the letter.
We would do well to abandon our adventurism in the Middle East. We don't really understand the area, its language, history and culture. Look at Afghanistan - the US has been their 15 years and is still losing the war.
8
So, President Obama was wrong? Too often in the last 60 years we have entered into conflict with little or no plan. Why would anyone think this time would be different?
As we continue to emerge a global community that works for the benefit of all life, one critical element is going to be the creation of a trained, international, de-escalation team, perhaps privately funded, which could skillfully intervene anywhere on earth, in less than 24 hours, should an "escalation" occur.
Humans are very poor self-de-escalators. Nations are no better. Trump is the worst. I wonder why we haven't seen this before and created such a team, to save us from a potential nuclear war or other global catastrophe.
C'mon America. Don't procrastinate, de-escalate!
Humans are very poor self-de-escalators. Nations are no better. Trump is the worst. I wonder why we haven't seen this before and created such a team, to save us from a potential nuclear war or other global catastrophe.
C'mon America. Don't procrastinate, de-escalate!
1
Did we just lose the Cold War?
Quote from NYT Today's Paper [online]: "Moscow suspended the use of a military hotline for avoiding collisions in Syrian airspace...."
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/todayspaper/index.html
Quote from the full article [also online]: "The Russians also said they had suspended their use of a hotline that the American and Russian militaries used to avoid collisions...."
Moscow actually suspended or just said they had suspended?
Okay, I may be a nitpicker, but that's a big difference, especially since "America’s top uniformed official [Gen. Joe Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] said lines of communication remain open with Russia following the shootdown of a Syrian regime jet by an American aircraft." -- DefenseNews
But wait, here's the actual military "clarification": "As to the deconfliction line being shut down, Dunford told an audience at the National Press Club, 'That link is still ongoing here this morning. We’ve still been communicating over the last few hours,' but added, 'I would just tell you we’ll work diplomatically and militarily in the coming hours to reestablish deconfliction' between Russia and the U.S. http://www.defensenews.com/articles/dunford-communication-with-russia-st...
Thanks general! Now I understand, the link is still ongoing and we'll work to reestablish that deconfliction link.
Who wouldn't be conflicted?
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/todayspaper/index.html
Quote from the full article [also online]: "The Russians also said they had suspended their use of a hotline that the American and Russian militaries used to avoid collisions...."
Moscow actually suspended or just said they had suspended?
Okay, I may be a nitpicker, but that's a big difference, especially since "America’s top uniformed official [Gen. Joe Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff] said lines of communication remain open with Russia following the shootdown of a Syrian regime jet by an American aircraft." -- DefenseNews
But wait, here's the actual military "clarification": "As to the deconfliction line being shut down, Dunford told an audience at the National Press Club, 'That link is still ongoing here this morning. We’ve still been communicating over the last few hours,' but added, 'I would just tell you we’ll work diplomatically and militarily in the coming hours to reestablish deconfliction' between Russia and the U.S. http://www.defensenews.com/articles/dunford-communication-with-russia-st...
Thanks general! Now I understand, the link is still ongoing and we'll work to reestablish that deconfliction link.
Who wouldn't be conflicted?
1
A lot of people are identifying Kushner as responsible for this. Not a good position for what's left of this country, not a good position for the military who have to conform to his uninformed, inexperienced, and disloyal wishes, and not a good position for him or Ivanka or Trump when it heads south. The spotlight is the last place this faker needs to be.
"A lot of people are identifying Kushner as responsible for this."
Really? Please name one of that "lot of people" (in addition to Charlie of mid/central America, of course). And how did the NYT miss Mr. Kushner's arranging "this".
Rather than name-calling, please give at least some detail, some evidence that Mr. Kushner either shot down or was responsible for shooting down an intrusive Syrian jet.
Thanking you in advance!!!
Really? Please name one of that "lot of people" (in addition to Charlie of mid/central America, of course). And how did the NYT miss Mr. Kushner's arranging "this".
Rather than name-calling, please give at least some detail, some evidence that Mr. Kushner either shot down or was responsible for shooting down an intrusive Syrian jet.
Thanking you in advance!!!
Trump and his administration have been extremely contradictory and disjointed in responding to inquiries regarding their domestic agenda and the possible Russian sabotage of our election - to the point of the President being contradicted by his own lawyer regarding his being under investigation - can you imagine how dangerously diffuse and confused they will be in responding to military threats from Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, etc.?
1
The NYT must be suffering from schizophrenia:
They accuse President Trump of doing Putin's bidding, but yet cousin Vladimir is complaining the the Trump administration is retaliating to Bashar al-Assad bombing his fellow citizens with traditional bombs and chemical weapons.
Could it be that the NYT and the Washington Post are making up Fake News abut their alleged Trump-Putin bromance?
They accuse President Trump of doing Putin's bidding, but yet cousin Vladimir is complaining the the Trump administration is retaliating to Bashar al-Assad bombing his fellow citizens with traditional bombs and chemical weapons.
Could it be that the NYT and the Washington Post are making up Fake News abut their alleged Trump-Putin bromance?
3
No, they could not, to answer your last question, which discredits everything you wrote before it.
1
The U.S. must be very careful. We are not on Putin's good side. Putin rigged the election to put Trump into office. In turn, Trump was supposed to lift sanctions on Russia but the Senate has added new sanctions on Russia just recently. I believe that the quid pro quo was that Russia would forgive much of the Trump family debt if the sanctions were liffed but now it is the opposite and Russia is warning the U.S. to back off. Trump has then angered all of our alies so, who is going to help us when Russia really takes us on. If we are not all very afraid, we should be.
Bons Temps Rouler!
Not to worry. Jared is apparently heading to Israel this week to get his marching orders, under the guise of working on 'Mideast Peace'.
1
No worries, Jared can fix it.
Stay calm folks. Russia wants no part of engaging the U.S. and look really bad when one of our high tech jets takes out a Soviet clunker. This tough talk by Russia was to save face. No, we do not want a war, but we must stand strong. The Russians don't have Obama to push around anymore.
2
Thank God Trump is in collusion with Russia... Right?. RIGHT?.
4
Well looks like we're about to go to war.
Who called you, to Syria? You got the whole world through your wars. The Russians will soon tire of your aggression and punish you and will be right, and then they will punish your puppets and again will be right.
1
Obviously Trump is Putin's stooge (as you've all been screeching for months) and this is exactly what Putin wants him to do, right?
4
If you go out of your way to bait a bear don't be surprised if you get mauled.
1
I'm simultaneously comfortable and uncomfortable with Trump's decision to give the Pentagon free reign with our military forces. On the one hand, I trust Mattis's decision-making more than Trump's, but I think oversight and accountability might suffer as a result. Hopefully this doesn't get out of hand.
Asta la vista, Baby...
The end is near.
Why don't we go back to the late 1970's when the late Zbigniew Brzesinski was the national security advisor under the chosen president, Jimmy Carter?
We could look at the videos of Brzenski and Paul Wolfowitz urging the "mujaadeen" on", telling them that God was on their side. (There are several videos which show exactly this, even if my typing skills are somewhat compromised by essential tremor.)
The next thing that happens is 9/11. On 9/12/2001, the only civilian aircraft in the sky was a plane carrying the bin Laden family out of the IS. Now how did that happen?
Then we had the Iraq war, based on totally falsified claims. Tens of thousands of people died, with not a single question about the validity of the claims. Oh, yeah, we had a group of people who cried that it was the mean-bad-nasiies at work, but nothing ever came of it.
Now we have come to the ultimate situation.
Are we going to live or are we going to die? I say that most Americans are going to die, and most Russians are going to live, because they have prepared for it and we haven't.
We could look at the videos of Brzenski and Paul Wolfowitz urging the "mujaadeen" on", telling them that God was on their side. (There are several videos which show exactly this, even if my typing skills are somewhat compromised by essential tremor.)
The next thing that happens is 9/11. On 9/12/2001, the only civilian aircraft in the sky was a plane carrying the bin Laden family out of the IS. Now how did that happen?
Then we had the Iraq war, based on totally falsified claims. Tens of thousands of people died, with not a single question about the validity of the claims. Oh, yeah, we had a group of people who cried that it was the mean-bad-nasiies at work, but nothing ever came of it.
Now we have come to the ultimate situation.
Are we going to live or are we going to die? I say that most Americans are going to die, and most Russians are going to live, because they have prepared for it and we haven't.
2
So maybe Trump gets us into a war with Russia just to prove he isn't Putin's puppet. Sounds ridiculous and crazy, but it is definitely a possibility. Scary.
1
Trump is too busy playing buddy-buddy with Putin and his Russian ambassadors so he wouldn't want to jeopardized his coziness with them. If Russia decides to take over half of Europe with his military and declared WWIII on our allies, Trump would standby and allow it to happen. Trump is Putin's sock puppet and his entire administration is just as corrupt with ties of their own with Russia.
So on the "news" page there's a conflict between Russia and us and it's intensifying, while on the editorial page Trump is a tool of the Russians, who helped him get elected with the treasonous connivance of the Trump campaign. Liz Spayd was the last person at the Times with any integrity, and we know where that got her. What's happened to this paper, given its great history, is pathetic.
2
The real situation is that all problems in ME are created by the US, UK, and NATO. The dictators there are/were no better or worse than those gladly suffered elsewhere. Pinochet comes to mind. Likewise Suharto in Indonesia. But of course that were dictators installed by CIA, fully approved by US government. Get USA out of the fray, and peace will have a chance!
2
Shoot 'em down. Please. They have no right to be there. I say "they" and not "we". Syria is a sovereign country and the bankers are looking to do to them what they did to Iraq and Libya. You know it, I know it, Kushner knows it.
1
What Mr. Hof has to say about the Russians ("Common sense and the rational actor model don't always prevail. One hopes that there is a sharp distinction between Russian rhetoric and action.") applies in spades to the Trump regime. After all, it was the Americans, and not the Russians, who pulled the trigger on this occasion. Maybe the Americans should stand down.
America should reconsider favoring "moderate" jihadis over Bashar al-Assad. Al Assad may be a nasty piece of work but poses no threat to American nor its allies. The same cannot be said for the "moderate" jihadis that it presently supports. Doesn't anyone remember what American support for Afghan mujahideen in the 1980's morphed into Al-Qaeda?
America should reconsider favoring "moderate" jihadis over Bashar al-Assad. Al Assad may be a nasty piece of work but poses no threat to American nor its allies. The same cannot be said for the "moderate" jihadis that it presently supports. Doesn't anyone remember what American support for Afghan mujahideen in the 1980's morphed into Al-Qaeda?
2
It is all game to Dump Trump and KBG Putin.
Lots of bad things could happen here. One of which is World War III. My problem is our "president" has no clue where the Euphrates is. Also, if one of our fighter planes is shot down by the Russians, which side will Trump be on?
I wish these grown-up boys would get out of the sandbox and start realizing that this Earth of ours is pretty small and we would be better of working together. And it goes for both parties.
1
Really. After 8 years of Obama failures, some people are all over Trump. So pathetic.
1
The Times is remarkably incurious about what really happened.
First there was an incident about the village of Ja'din. SDF and government accuse each other of attacking first. Some sources claim that it was just on the SDF side of a previously agreed de-conflictation line. So maybe first the government drove out ISIS and then SDF proceeded in a rather brutal way to take what they considered theirs.
Then there is the riddle of what this plane was doing. Was it really part of an offensive to retake Ja'din? Or did it have other targets? The situation was very fluent at the time of the downing and both the SDF and the government were advancing fast against ISIS. So maybe the plane attacked a SDF held area that it thought was still controlled by ISIS. However, it isn't even sure that the plane dropped any bombs at all.
The SDF and the government have a long history of working together and solving disputes peacefully in Aleppo province. The first contacts in Raqqa province looked promising too. There may have been some misunderstandings but these likely could have been solved peacefully.
So my impression is that some US commander was unable to discern the hostile relations between the Syrian government with the FSA from its rather friendly relations with the SDF and that as a consequence he made a decision that in its context can only be called barbaric.
First there was an incident about the village of Ja'din. SDF and government accuse each other of attacking first. Some sources claim that it was just on the SDF side of a previously agreed de-conflictation line. So maybe first the government drove out ISIS and then SDF proceeded in a rather brutal way to take what they considered theirs.
Then there is the riddle of what this plane was doing. Was it really part of an offensive to retake Ja'din? Or did it have other targets? The situation was very fluent at the time of the downing and both the SDF and the government were advancing fast against ISIS. So maybe the plane attacked a SDF held area that it thought was still controlled by ISIS. However, it isn't even sure that the plane dropped any bombs at all.
The SDF and the government have a long history of working together and solving disputes peacefully in Aleppo province. The first contacts in Raqqa province looked promising too. There may have been some misunderstandings but these likely could have been solved peacefully.
So my impression is that some US commander was unable to discern the hostile relations between the Syrian government with the FSA from its rather friendly relations with the SDF and that as a consequence he made a decision that in its context can only be called barbaric.
1
USA Trying to set up a Quasi state in Syria for their "PIPELINE" dreams!!! Absolutely a WAR CRIME as usual from the World's #1 Terrorists!!!The US MIC!!! Strung out on wars and intervention!!! Just can't kick the RUSH of Killing people of color worlwide 24/7 in at LEAST nine countries!!! Imagine living in one of "our" colonies!!! IRAQ,Afghanistan,Yemen
1
Put FA-22s in front & turn 'em loose!!!
2
The Russians are just embarrassed to have their SU-22 hit by a U.S. plane
2
Several bits of this narrative don't add up.
Firstly, we are told the US is not at the moment seeking active confrontation with the Assad regime and shot down the Syrian plane because it was attacking US-assembled ground forces fighting ISIS.
Why would the Syrians do that if they are also fighting ISIS? Have they offered any alternative motivation for the attack? Are the American-backed ground forces up to something other than just fighting ISIS?
Secondly, the words of Donald Trump during his election campaign were: "Wouldn’t it be great if we actually got along with Russia? Am I wrong in saying that? Wouldn’t it be nice if we teamed up with Russia and others—including surrounding states and maybe NATO—and we knocked the hell out of ISIS and got rid of these people?"
Has he really gone from this position to one of shooting down Syrian planes in Syrian airspace?
I can only conclude what I have suspected for some time now, that someone in your country is trying to escalate the conflict and is doing so independently of the president.
Firstly, we are told the US is not at the moment seeking active confrontation with the Assad regime and shot down the Syrian plane because it was attacking US-assembled ground forces fighting ISIS.
Why would the Syrians do that if they are also fighting ISIS? Have they offered any alternative motivation for the attack? Are the American-backed ground forces up to something other than just fighting ISIS?
Secondly, the words of Donald Trump during his election campaign were: "Wouldn’t it be great if we actually got along with Russia? Am I wrong in saying that? Wouldn’t it be nice if we teamed up with Russia and others—including surrounding states and maybe NATO—and we knocked the hell out of ISIS and got rid of these people?"
Has he really gone from this position to one of shooting down Syrian planes in Syrian airspace?
I can only conclude what I have suspected for some time now, that someone in your country is trying to escalate the conflict and is doing so independently of the president.
2
Some may wonder on how could the situation between the 2 blocks (Us/Russia) could be taking such a wrong turn as of late. Unless, one doesn't give much credence to the torrent of blaring headlines and the day-to-day updates provided on such a hot topic that gets readers'click.
Months ago, there seemed to be a genuine attempt (rather gauche but still) from then-candidate D.Trump to reach out and restore the broken line of communication with V.Poutine.
The feeling seemed to flow both ways despite the fact there hasn't been much effort on the US side to let Putin fend for himself. Instead words were been put in his mouth.
Then, the drip-drip of innuendos mostly fomented at the source by resentful democrats ready to take on 'the old foe' and such easy scapegoat.
If no deescalation, another turn of the screw and the entire world could find itself facing with the kind of situation of the likes it barely avoided in 1962...
Which ultimately sounds like a hefty price to pay for a bunch of claims, most of which wait to be substantiated.
Months ago, there seemed to be a genuine attempt (rather gauche but still) from then-candidate D.Trump to reach out and restore the broken line of communication with V.Poutine.
The feeling seemed to flow both ways despite the fact there hasn't been much effort on the US side to let Putin fend for himself. Instead words were been put in his mouth.
Then, the drip-drip of innuendos mostly fomented at the source by resentful democrats ready to take on 'the old foe' and such easy scapegoat.
If no deescalation, another turn of the screw and the entire world could find itself facing with the kind of situation of the likes it barely avoided in 1962...
Which ultimately sounds like a hefty price to pay for a bunch of claims, most of which wait to be substantiated.
4
It is time to ground all Russian and Syrian flights in the area. Putin's military is no match for ours.
Russia muscled it way into the Syrian civil war when Obama dropped the ball on his famous Red line over chemical weapons. Russia made a great show clearing up the chemical weapons, missed some it seems, and has been on the ground since that time. Then they operated in their own sphere within Syria. Now they have an incident where they will try and push the US out altogether. We shall see.
2
I suppose this is all part of The Donald's secret plan.
which nation's military was invited into syria to repel islamic state fighters and exterminate domestic terrorists ?
and which nation's military is the exporter of terrorism ?
and which nation's military is the exporter of terrorism ?
1
Self defense? From what? What are we doing there and under what legal basis do we have to shoot down planes of the legitimate government of Syria trying to take back control of its territory.
We must face up to the fact that we support terrorists, and have used them for own geopolitical ends for a long time.
We must face up to the fact that we support terrorists, and have used them for own geopolitical ends for a long time.
3
The days of America as the only superpower are long over. It is time that Americans woke up to this fact.
The world is moving towards a multi-polar world, and the sooner the Americans acknowledge this fact and act appropriately, the lesser the probability of a world catastrophe.
The world is moving towards a multi-polar world, and the sooner the Americans acknowledge this fact and act appropriately, the lesser the probability of a world catastrophe.
1
That's certainly one way for Donald Trump to make the Russia story go away: Go to war with Russia and make the media either take sides supporting Donald Trump or supporting Russia.
1
Nobody in America but the crazed generals and psychopathic military contractors want war with Russia. Such an event could obviously have humanity-ending consequences. If our leadership had any sense, they would sign a peace treaty, get Assad to resign, and replace him with another member of the Ba'ath Socialist Party. Then Russia would have their puppet state and the Syrians would no longer have their hated leader. Why is this option never on the table? War is the health of the state.
1
I understand the US is considering increasing its involvement in this conflict. That increased involvement, more than the health care legislation debacle, certainly more than any considerations of fairness (hey, Emma Lazarus was a leftist agitator!), will turn the tide against Donald Trump. A few weeks ago a person who I'm pretty sure voted for Trump expressed real anger over the increased "boots on the ground" (his term) specifically in Syria. And as other commenters have pointed out, a one-off is sort of silly even by Trumpian standards.
Trump and Putin are on the same team,...America
Why warn the US by broadcasting your threats. Either do it the old fashion way, or, one morning we wake up to the news of an American fighter jet downed by Russia in the Syria theater.
Dog and pony show tonight.
Why warn the US by broadcasting your threats. Either do it the old fashion way, or, one morning we wake up to the news of an American fighter jet downed by Russia in the Syria theater.
Dog and pony show tonight.
You can't fight a war with a "Gentleman's Agreement".
For centuries that is how it was done in Europe.
This was the mentality that George Washington warned us about.
"Get in - Give it absolutely everything you've got - win - get out (or stay in as a conqueror)".
Otherwise we just end up with thousands of dead - ten's (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of permanently disabled - and another generation of PTSD Dads.
For centuries that is how it was done in Europe.
This was the mentality that George Washington warned us about.
"Get in - Give it absolutely everything you've got - win - get out (or stay in as a conqueror)".
Otherwise we just end up with thousands of dead - ten's (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of permanently disabled - and another generation of PTSD Dads.
No word in this article and elsewhere about the unlawfulness of the American military actions against a souvereign state(Syria).In the Crimean crisis the NYT was always crying about international law,but when it America self concerns this same international law is of no concern it seems. Here in Europe we see this as a characteristic of american policy."Quod licet Iovi non licet Bovi"
1
we have no business in Syria. it is a sovereign nation that we have decided to bomb in violation of international law. What dire interest do the PEOPLE of the united states have in syria ???? this is reckless and illegal, not to mention , very expensive war crimes against the people of syria. we need to just GET OUT.
3
Shooting a Sovreign State's aircraft over its own Airspace and then claiming that it was done in self-defence is the most ridiculous excuse if there ever was one. This is precisely the same kind of violation of International Laws and the Charter of the United Nations that we criticize other Nations for (if they are not in our Camp that is). We can not continue with our "Double Standards" Foreign Policy and expect the World to take us seriously. Scaling back relationship with Cuba on grounds of Human Rights abuse while dancing with Saudi Arabian King who is by far the worst Human Rights abuser in the World, is an ugly Double Standard. Our Friends lose their trust in and respect for us, and our Foes use these misguided policies to their advantage. Meanwhile, the 62 million who are responsible for putting an Ignoramus in the Oval Office will be waiting for their jobs to be shipped back from China, and for the coal mines to start digging for coal, and for the 12 million illegals to be deported, and for Obamacare to be repealed and replaced by a secret Healthcare System that except for a dozen GOP Senators, nobody knows how it works. The question is: is this electorate ignorant enough to vote Republican, again?
2
But . . but . . . but . . the Russians are our friends! Trump said so!
The rule of law no longer applies to the US military and our leaders in the West??
The United States has no legal justification for targeting Syrian government forces.
F.A. Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law said:
"If we care about the rule of law, the most striking thing about Trump is his flagrant violation of the War Powers Clause of the Constitution in this targeting of the Syrian government. Now, the U.S. has been violating international law in terms of its drone assassination program and various bombing campaigns, like the one purporting to target ISIS in Syria. Many of these activities are justified by attempts to invoke the Authorization for the Use of Military Force passed after the 9/11 attacks. A decade and a half after those attacks, that rationale is international legal nonsense, but it exists.
"In contrast, the targeting of forces of or allied with the Syrian government has no justification whatsoever. It is obviously impeachable -- Obama's people say they were afraid of impeachment for exactly this [see below]. But pro-war Democrats don't raise it because it would put a constraint on the war-making capacities of the U.S. president -- while they pretend to care about the rule of law."
The United States has no legal justification for targeting Syrian government forces.
F.A. Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law said:
"If we care about the rule of law, the most striking thing about Trump is his flagrant violation of the War Powers Clause of the Constitution in this targeting of the Syrian government. Now, the U.S. has been violating international law in terms of its drone assassination program and various bombing campaigns, like the one purporting to target ISIS in Syria. Many of these activities are justified by attempts to invoke the Authorization for the Use of Military Force passed after the 9/11 attacks. A decade and a half after those attacks, that rationale is international legal nonsense, but it exists.
"In contrast, the targeting of forces of or allied with the Syrian government has no justification whatsoever. It is obviously impeachable -- Obama's people say they were afraid of impeachment for exactly this [see below]. But pro-war Democrats don't raise it because it would put a constraint on the war-making capacities of the U.S. president -- while they pretend to care about the rule of law."
2
Well this is just dandy.....
This is extremely dangerous. Throughout the Cold War the two sides kept their forces apart on the battlefield because of the risk of accidental war. This lesson now seems lost on Russia.
The military on both sides will carry out their missions. The command structure will not even know that a war has started. Putin has never been in the military and does not know that his forces may not be able to act or react as he orders. The computers, the robots and the electronic systems will react in real time as they are designed to do. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.
Moscow's reliance on an air defense system is misplaced. Russia's belligerent arrogance is idiocy. Threatening more powerful forces is stupid.
Israel is west of the Euphrates River. Is Russia throwing down the gauntlet to Israel? Does Russia endorse Iran's aggression against Israel?
Avoiding war by accident is an important rule to remember.
The military on both sides will carry out their missions. The command structure will not even know that a war has started. Putin has never been in the military and does not know that his forces may not be able to act or react as he orders. The computers, the robots and the electronic systems will react in real time as they are designed to do. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.
Moscow's reliance on an air defense system is misplaced. Russia's belligerent arrogance is idiocy. Threatening more powerful forces is stupid.
Israel is west of the Euphrates River. Is Russia throwing down the gauntlet to Israel? Does Russia endorse Iran's aggression against Israel?
Avoiding war by accident is an important rule to remember.
3
Obama and Trump share one thing in common, a strange seemingliy fluctuating unorganized strategy for Syria and its Iranian and Russian allies.
Policy? What policy? Plans? What plans? Flying by the seat of your pants and making decisions at the spur of the moment do not necessarily represent well thought out strategies in Syria. The MOAB didn't seem to send the correct message.
That leaves no doubt Russia has always wanted Syria to be its zombie state. From the U.S. perspective, Russia disrupting the U.S. election turns out to be backfiring on itself. Putin has preferred a friendlier Trump to a hawkish Clinton but he got an unrestrained administration without any hesitation in wracking the dog. With Clinton, Putin would have gotten a tough but pragmatic U.S. Such is the strange path of Karma.
Incidentally, Trump is also allowing an all-out flame out of the oil & gas industry. So Russia is going to do far worse with its dependency on oil revenue. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for!
Incidentally, Trump is also allowing an all-out flame out of the oil & gas industry. So Russia is going to do far worse with its dependency on oil revenue. As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for!
4
It's okay for Putin and his Russians to supply missiles and his little green men in Ukraine which blew up a civilian airliner; for Russia to sanction Assad's inhumanity and murder in Syria; and for Russia to arm the Taliban to fight US troops in Afghanistan. So, why is it wrong for the US to protect its allies from the butcher Assad and his cronies? It's time to stand up to Putin and Russia. and give them some of he same, and let them understand that their aggression
9
Let's not forget about the annexation of Crimea. Eight years of vapid foreign policy tends to have that affect; nobody minding the store. Countries get the sense there will be no repercussions, hence China creating a offensive military base right off coast of the Philippines and you never heard a whimper of objection from the WH.
1
The simple fact is USA'S OVERTHROW of the Ukrainian government and the ethnic Russian MAJORITY resisting that in Donbas has nothing to do with Syria. If we count Russian instances of "meddling" as you put it vs. the USA's wholesale wanton meddling, invasions, coups all over the world, Russia does not even come close. The fact is Russia was INVITED by Syria to resist American backed terrorists. Russia by international law is in the right. The USA is completely breaking international law by supporting terrorists and supporting overthrow of yet another government. Karma is already coming back to bite you. Keep it up and you will unleash a hornets nest.
1
Is Trump even aware this is happening?
4
A war with Russia, Iran and Syria will probably be less fun than the neocon warmongers think. It could end up with over 100,000,000 dead on each side.
9
Even if Trump has some secret back-channel ties with Putin, I would never call Vladimir's bluff. There's a reason why the S-400 missile system as one of the best in the world. There's also a reason why the US still relies on Russia to supply rockets for space travel.
4
Yup... He must be in bed with the Russians.. NYT and CNN said so.
1
Nothing has changed. We do not fly east of the river, anyway. That had already been established.
3
We are now at war with Russia. (Statements that planes will now be shot down IS a state of war.) The steady hand and high intellect of Trump can be trusted to handle this situation brilliantly.)
I hope we had a backup plan when we shot that Syrian jet out of the air. It doesn't take much forethought to know that's exactly how Russia would respond.
2
We have placed ourselves in the pickle barrel. Joseph Dunford- Chair of The Joint Chiefs of Staff is citing PL-107-40 (September 18, 2001) as the basic for shooting down the Syrian aircraft. Of course it was passed in response to September 11, 2001 to fight Al-Qaeda:
SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) IN GENERAL.—That the President is authorized to use all
necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations,
or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed,
or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,
or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent
any future acts of international terrorism against the United States
by such nations, organizations or persons.
Of course this makes no sense but what else do we have to justify that which we cannot justify?
SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) IN GENERAL.—That the President is authorized to use all
necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations,
or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed,
or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,
or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent
any future acts of international terrorism against the United States
by such nations, organizations or persons.
Of course this makes no sense but what else do we have to justify that which we cannot justify?
5
People like Joseph Dunford should right now be subjected to raking over the coals by the media for a thought process like this. Please NYT, can you pause from the Russian investigation smorgasbord for like 1 day and focus on the machinations of these unelected officials, who are pushing us back to the brink of the Cold War without any concrete justification?
1
I believe Trump would love to become “The War President” so he could show off his “Leadership” to the world of “Defending Freedom” then accuse his critics of “Treason” and not supporting “The Troops”.
It worked for Bush in Iraq.
It worked for Bush in Iraq.
12
As opposed to having eight years of no foreign policy? Goes a long way in explaining why the world is in such a mess now. No one was minding the store.
1
The US is already at war, and has been since 9/11 in Afghanistan and Iraq. Syria is just a proxy, but could easily escalate. We could also get dragged into Yemen, and other conflicts in the Gulf.
So, technically, Trump is war president, though has already shown that he's bereft of leadership, and is the traitor himself (so, the little cat and dog show to distract from Russian election meddling is probably part of their plan).
So, technically, Trump is war president, though has already shown that he's bereft of leadership, and is the traitor himself (so, the little cat and dog show to distract from Russian election meddling is probably part of their plan).
Now the neocons can get the hot war with Russia and Iran they have always been clamoring for. Too bad they cannot be made to fight it; they will make money and gain power, though, which are their principal objects. It may not turn out the way they imagine. The Kagans and Kristol and Stephens are likely advising American military, go ahead, test that Russian resolve, they'll back down doncha know.
13
russians don't back down once they draw their line. ask napolean or hitler.... don't poke that bear
2
I think this is exceedingly serious.
But I have a confession to make. I do something Lyndon Johnson did. I listen to the evening news. (According to Doris Kearns Goodwin, he had three TV sets in the oval office and he would manically switch back and forth between CBS, NBC and ABC) That is the only way one will know what the great majority of Americans have heard about.
And I have the distinct dissatisfaction of having to report to you that there was not one word about this on CBS.
This is why Democracy is increasingly a failure. What sense is it to give people the right to vote when they don't have the faintest idea of what is going on because most of them, most of the time, are listening to the drivel of television. (Yes, I know there's plenty of good stuff on internet, but most of it is submerged in a sea of exhibitionism, lies and the most absurd conspiracy theories and millions of people just use the internet to look at porn.)
But I have a confession to make. I do something Lyndon Johnson did. I listen to the evening news. (According to Doris Kearns Goodwin, he had three TV sets in the oval office and he would manically switch back and forth between CBS, NBC and ABC) That is the only way one will know what the great majority of Americans have heard about.
And I have the distinct dissatisfaction of having to report to you that there was not one word about this on CBS.
This is why Democracy is increasingly a failure. What sense is it to give people the right to vote when they don't have the faintest idea of what is going on because most of them, most of the time, are listening to the drivel of television. (Yes, I know there's plenty of good stuff on internet, but most of it is submerged in a sea of exhibitionism, lies and the most absurd conspiracy theories and millions of people just use the internet to look at porn.)
15
LBJ got us into Vietnam with both feet. 100X the numbers JFK had there. In fact just before his assassination, JFK was drafting the language to withdraw. Cronkite lied about the results Tet offensive, it was, in fact, a decisive victory for the US. Just like today, the media is a propaganda arm, that lies at will and is never held to account. I stopped taking the MSM at their word 35 years ago.
1
Russia's warnings have as much merit as Trump's Tweets, newsworthy but devoid of reality, pure chaff. Militarily, America and its allies would quickly dominate Syrian airspace.
The bigger issue is why is America fighting in Syria? To defeat Assad's Shiite minority, or support a Sunni group that just so happens to be friendly to America because we give them weapons? Been there done that, remember seed funding Bin Laden in Afghanistan---against the Russians? How'd that work out? Of course there in Syria is--- Isis! Yes, Isis, the very group America created by invading Iraq based on lies and firing Saddam's professional army--all thanks to Neocon hysteria.
A cogent American policy on Syria or anything? Limited by 140 characters in social media.
The bigger issue is why is America fighting in Syria? To defeat Assad's Shiite minority, or support a Sunni group that just so happens to be friendly to America because we give them weapons? Been there done that, remember seed funding Bin Laden in Afghanistan---against the Russians? How'd that work out? Of course there in Syria is--- Isis! Yes, Isis, the very group America created by invading Iraq based on lies and firing Saddam's professional army--all thanks to Neocon hysteria.
A cogent American policy on Syria or anything? Limited by 140 characters in social media.
14
I was in the second grade when 9/11 happened and the wars in the Middle East started. I'm 23 years old and about to get a BA degree yet we are STILL waging war in the Middle East with no end in sight. I grew up reading about hundreds of billions of dollars disappearing, terrorist attacks increasing in Europe, and people I went to school with coming home in body bags.
I understand the need for military action and protecting US interests but enough is enough, we have been at war almost my entire life. We beat down Al-Qaeda and the Taliban pop up, we beat down the Taliban and ISIS pops up, we beat down ISIS and some other group will pop up.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results every time. Clearly bombs are not the solution.
I understand the need for military action and protecting US interests but enough is enough, we have been at war almost my entire life. We beat down Al-Qaeda and the Taliban pop up, we beat down the Taliban and ISIS pops up, we beat down ISIS and some other group will pop up.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results every time. Clearly bombs are not the solution.
35
That is not the definition of insanity. Also, you should think of our "wars" (really, very limited military engagements) as stopping the spread of ISIS and new groups, not eliminating them. Clearly, ISIS is much weaker because of our actions.
1
ISIS and its caliphate will fall and another Islamic caliphate will appear, this has been the status quo since the Crusades a thousand years ago and will continue. The majority of early Europe defeated the early Muslims to recapture "the Holy Land" and Jerusalem. Since then the Muslims have repeatedly engaged in warfare, from the time Zangi took the rule of the Muslims in what is now northern Iraq and started the second Crusades, defeated the forces from Jerusalem under Saladin, then Muslim leader who created Jihad while amassing his armies in Syria, Saladin had to create a doctrine which would unite his forces and make them fight until the bitter end, which would be the only way they could re-conquer the lands taken in the First Crusade. Throughout history, under the name of Islam, wars have been fought for control the middle east, and will not end as Saladin's Jihad said until the bitter end, so it is a continuation of a war a thousand years old, and they are still fighting it.
Actually finishing the job is the solution. Problem is we've gone in with our hands tied because the liberal left wants to appease. Been happening since Vietnam.
Let's see Mr. Obamas policies were bad, all of them according to the current admin. (because they scream the loudest). He caused this, that and oh yeah that other "thing" (only God knows what that one was). Then tell us all why as soon as the new administration got in there the whole thing seems to be coming apart?
5
Likely I am just too young and foolish to understand, but the way in which so many Americans feel a need to recreate the Cold War is beyond my understanding and frightening.
21
Russia/Putin want to recreated the Cold War..Putin is a Stalin Wannabe...You cannot let Putin have an inch or he will take a mile...
Russia has a history of despotism and enslaving other peoples and countries..That is why we have the NATO Alliance. It has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years...Russia is a danger to itself and others.
Russia has a history of despotism and enslaving other peoples and countries..That is why we have the NATO Alliance. It has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years...Russia is a danger to itself and others.
I know right? And here we've been told our president is in bed with Russia this whole time... Go figure..
Is this the same Russia that Donald Trump wants us to be "friends" with?
13
I'm a vet. I was a naval aviator. I stand with Syria, Russia and Iran. The USA is unwelcome in the sovereign state of Syria.
13
ExGOPvoter - Why do you stand with Russia? They're out to grab as much land and as much influence in the world as they can. The sovereign state of Syria happens to be ruled by a ruthless dictator who has declared war on his own people and has violated human rights laws.
1
Why USA relys common sense prevails on the opposing side ? This is good moment to find a sense in us military. USA operates without consent of the legitimate government and will face consequences.
1
I'm confused.
Liberals and their media allies have been clamoring for confrontation with Russia for months. Yet, now they seem to be upset with the prospect of a real-life shooting war.
What started merely as disingenuous political theater to discredit the president and rally Democratic voters for 2018, might have unintended consequences.
Let me guess. Liberals also think that our European allies are so angry that they will join the effort to further punish and isolate Russia?
It's time for Red Scare 2.0 to end.
Liberals and their media allies have been clamoring for confrontation with Russia for months. Yet, now they seem to be upset with the prospect of a real-life shooting war.
What started merely as disingenuous political theater to discredit the president and rally Democratic voters for 2018, might have unintended consequences.
Let me guess. Liberals also think that our European allies are so angry that they will join the effort to further punish and isolate Russia?
It's time for Red Scare 2.0 to end.
16
Confusion--even when it's sarcasm--often begins with the wrong set of facts. The solution is often to make up facts--of other lies and fantasies!
Fact is, when fantasy, lies, and blame replace fact the evidence, details, examples, and best cases are always omitted--the conclusions are left unsupported or proven even as they are offered as both proof and conclusion.
Here's an example: "It's time for Red Scare 2.0 to end."
Evidence/facts omitted: Flynn took money from Russian surrogates and failed to report it, lied to Pence, and called the Russian ambassador the day after sanctions were imposed.
Fact: in Senate hearings, consistent testimony from staff and directors acknowledge 17 intelligence agencies have strong evidence of Russian cyber-interference in US elections, including hacking local commissions in the States, creating 100,000s of bots, deploying fake news stories, and hacking the DNC. So aware even Trump called for their help!
Facts: Trump tells Russia's foreign minister Comey was a nut job (Who disparages their officials to those of another country?) and then says the next day to 3 Russian officials, without prompting, "the pressure is off." Trump proxy Erik Prince meets a Putin ally "incidentally" in the Seychelles.
Given this small glimpse of details and quotes, is this evidence of a "Red Scare"? Or a common sense regard and curiosity for the truth and extent of foreign influence of US elections, officials, and policy? (In the fight for democracy!)
Fact is, when fantasy, lies, and blame replace fact the evidence, details, examples, and best cases are always omitted--the conclusions are left unsupported or proven even as they are offered as both proof and conclusion.
Here's an example: "It's time for Red Scare 2.0 to end."
Evidence/facts omitted: Flynn took money from Russian surrogates and failed to report it, lied to Pence, and called the Russian ambassador the day after sanctions were imposed.
Fact: in Senate hearings, consistent testimony from staff and directors acknowledge 17 intelligence agencies have strong evidence of Russian cyber-interference in US elections, including hacking local commissions in the States, creating 100,000s of bots, deploying fake news stories, and hacking the DNC. So aware even Trump called for their help!
Facts: Trump tells Russia's foreign minister Comey was a nut job (Who disparages their officials to those of another country?) and then says the next day to 3 Russian officials, without prompting, "the pressure is off." Trump proxy Erik Prince meets a Putin ally "incidentally" in the Seychelles.
Given this small glimpse of details and quotes, is this evidence of a "Red Scare"? Or a common sense regard and curiosity for the truth and extent of foreign influence of US elections, officials, and policy? (In the fight for democracy!)
10
Walter:
Fact: It is very likely that the Russians tried to influence the election with hacked emails.
Fact: No investigation so far has found any evidence of collusion by Donald Trump.
If you are wishing for a confrontation with Russia, Walter, please be very careful what you wish for. If it escalates, our "allies" in Europe have neither the firepower nor willpower to stand with us. If it escalates, it won't be the offspring of Maxine Waters, Adam Schiff, or other Democratic leaders doing the fighting and dying.
Fact: It is very likely that the Russians tried to influence the election with hacked emails.
Fact: No investigation so far has found any evidence of collusion by Donald Trump.
If you are wishing for a confrontation with Russia, Walter, please be very careful what you wish for. If it escalates, our "allies" in Europe have neither the firepower nor willpower to stand with us. If it escalates, it won't be the offspring of Maxine Waters, Adam Schiff, or other Democratic leaders doing the fighting and dying.
5
most true "liberals" are against war, certainly most of our recent ones such as afghanistan , iraq, libya. most true liberals do not want war or any U.S. involvement in the syrian mess. you are confusing the term "liberal" with the DNC neoliberals, who are war criminals, among other horrid things
1
President Trump should get on the phone with Vladimir Putin ASAP.
It's time for their Bromance" to start paying some dividends!
It's time for their Bromance" to start paying some dividends!
4
Send Obama as a special envoy we know how much respect Putin had for him.
The quote he kills his own people is used to justify intervention everywhere. Who's people would you have him kill?
2
They keep warning but won't do anything, like putin didn't do anything when turkey took down a Russian fighter jet when it flew across its border
Putin is a bully and like all bullies, he has a big mouth and only shows his muscles against the weaks
Putin is a bully and like all bullies, he has a big mouth and only shows his muscles against the weaks
2
This thing is going to end bad.. I just have that feeling...
4
based on the last 50 years or so of bad endings ? when will we ever learn ?
Frankly there is something satisfying about hearing that US aircraft have finally shot down one of Syria's air craft engaged in the bombing of their only nation and countrymen and countrywomen.
That being said I am not sure we can really do anything to end this particularly vicious civil war. I don't believe that the Trump administration has thought out what they intend to accomplish in allowing this escalation.
As for the Russian Administration... Please be carful what you ask for Mr. Putin. Our nations have been preparing for thermonuclear war for about 70 years. If you target US aircraft you will certainly get some American and Russian service men killed and some expensive hardware turned into junk. That is if we are all lucky... If we are not you could turn the whole planet into radio active junk.
That being said I am not sure we can really do anything to end this particularly vicious civil war. I don't believe that the Trump administration has thought out what they intend to accomplish in allowing this escalation.
As for the Russian Administration... Please be carful what you ask for Mr. Putin. Our nations have been preparing for thermonuclear war for about 70 years. If you target US aircraft you will certainly get some American and Russian service men killed and some expensive hardware turned into junk. That is if we are all lucky... If we are not you could turn the whole planet into radio active junk.
4
or we could. we also need to think carefully about what the U.S. "asks for". as for nuclear war, i am certainly not "prepared". this is something one cannot imagine, much less prepare for. it should be unthinkable. also, how about the rest of the world that would become "collateral damage" for our lunacy ???
Commanders in the field have been given more autonomy, this is just one of many potential outcomes. We tried eight years of micro management by one with zero military experience, with disastrous results, world-wide. This is no picnic, lots of bad actors in play here. Do you think they are just going to go away on their own? A few might have to get a little prodding to understand, there's a new sheriff in town. Of course having a press that actively undermines the president at every term never helps.
1
Carla:
Yes "or we could" You and I share the some position on not being prepared to "go to war with Russia" over Syria. Before Trump I would have said that saner heads prevail in the US Administration. Now I am not so very sure of that.
Yes "or we could" You and I share the some position on not being prepared to "go to war with Russia" over Syria. Before Trump I would have said that saner heads prevail in the US Administration. Now I am not so very sure of that.
The reason the USAF deployed the F-22 into the conflict zone... test it against its Russian counterpart. What's the use of having a gun if you don't fire it?
3
Q1. Did USA declare a war to Syrian government to shoot its planes?
Q2. Was USA mission authorized by UN?
Q3. Was USA invited by the Syrian government?
Q4. What article of international law authorizes USA acting against Syrian government forces on Syrian soil?
Q2. Was USA mission authorized by UN?
Q3. Was USA invited by the Syrian government?
Q4. What article of international law authorizes USA acting against Syrian government forces on Syrian soil?
22
I'm anxious to see what steps our Commander in Chief will recommend regarding U.S. air activity west of the Euphrates. He surely has a brilliant strategy in mind.
It has something to do with letting the guys who do the work, be the guys who plan the work. Trump has always been successful when he fits smart people he trusts and let's them go figure it out. The generals know how to fight a war and how to stop it as well.
We apparently have this fixation of eliminating foreign " dictatotrs, butchers, murderers", lately Hassad, and we go ahead blindly without any realistic idea of the consequences or any plan whatsoever as to how or by whom they are to be replaced.
We imagine that a "democratic processe" will take place by a kind of miracle and that "peace among men" will ocur, and western style of reason will prevail;
Apparently the failures in Afghanistan, Irak, Lybia and now Syria have not tought us any thing. We stil are pround and happy that "we got them".
The fact that our intervention in Afghanistan, the elimination of Sadam Hussein, of Colonel Kadafi, and our intervention in Syria has brought dister on these countries and caused many times more deaths and pain than those dictators is ignored.
We shot ourselves in the foot, but thes people in the head.
But go ahead, lets "get "Saddam... Will worry latter
We imagine that a "democratic processe" will take place by a kind of miracle and that "peace among men" will ocur, and western style of reason will prevail;
Apparently the failures in Afghanistan, Irak, Lybia and now Syria have not tought us any thing. We stil are pround and happy that "we got them".
The fact that our intervention in Afghanistan, the elimination of Sadam Hussein, of Colonel Kadafi, and our intervention in Syria has brought dister on these countries and caused many times more deaths and pain than those dictators is ignored.
We shot ourselves in the foot, but thes people in the head.
But go ahead, lets "get "Saddam... Will worry latter
5
Syria was more like Yugoslavia where a feckless democratic president let it become a humanitarian disaster and a cess pool for terrorist
I wonder if 45 understands what is going on.
Hope that Mattis is the right man for his job. This 45 cabinet is pathetic, however, Mattis is a true American, and I hope that continues. These are difficult times and 45 surely not helping.
Hope that Mattis is the right man for his job. This 45 cabinet is pathetic, however, Mattis is a true American, and I hope that continues. These are difficult times and 45 surely not helping.
2
I have to be fair in all of this while stating my disgust with Trump, but President Obama lacked a coherent policy in Syria. Don't know if Putin is trying to take the pressure off the Russian investigation here with a feint or, in classic KGB action, taking advantage of a President who hasn't a clue about what foreign policy should be.
We have to stand our ground. If Russia fires at one of our aircraft or ships, we must fire back. I trust the professional officers on the scene to make the best judgement. Trump will just "Twitter" any possible emphatic and reasonable response away.
We have to stand our ground. If Russia fires at one of our aircraft or ships, we must fire back. I trust the professional officers on the scene to make the best judgement. Trump will just "Twitter" any possible emphatic and reasonable response away.
2
we are not fighting on "our ground". we are fighting in a foreign country which we have invaded. the syrian military is "standing their ground" and the U.S. are shooting at them for flying in their own national airspace. contrary to american delusions, syria is not the 51st state, nor is iraq, libya, iran, etc. and if they were, we would be "killing our own people" we have no business in syria, or iraq, etc. imagin all the lives and money we would save if we just came home and stopped bombing everyone !
1
One only has to remember how the Russian government behaves. They murder the politically opposing journalists, they tinker with American politics. America is much stronger than Russia and they know it. This, I think is theater.
It's a little less subtle than mistakenly bombing an embassy, but more effective
Trump wants war! He wants an excuse to shut down all criticism and opposition. He would rather put all our lives at risk than take the heat. The GOP has lost all sense of patriotism. The American people mean nothing to them. It is appalling. Money for guns and bombs but nothing for vets, the sick, the elderly or the young.
10
Trump wants war!
=================
No, no! Trump is Putin's stooge and does whatever he wants! Remember!
=================
No, no! Trump is Putin's stooge and does whatever he wants! Remember!
Think maybe this is a drama jointly orchestrated by Trump and Putin to make us think they aren't in cahoots?
6
Not so long ago I would have dismissed this comment as conspiratorial gibberish. In the Trump era, however, nothing surprises me. We're through the looking-glass, people.
It's all a vast conspiracy!!!!
Any evidence that shows there isn't a conspiracy is just part of the conspiracy to show that there isn't a conspiracy
Any evidence that shows there isn't a conspiracy is just part of the conspiracy to show that there isn't a conspiracy
The situation is becoming very dicey, just wish that the US had taken a stand as many the in the world advocated 6 years ago in support of the students, young people and those seeking freedom from the Mafiosi Al-Assad clan. They beseeched the west for support and the feckless Obama administration dithered, wrung its hands and kicked the can down the road until the infamous red line and the fateful entry of Russia into the fray whole hog. He did not act for fear of losing the Iran Nuclear deal and now, an emboldeed Iran is playing an even bigger chess game. Now we find ourselves against Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, Shia militias and all manner of miscreants. Time to come up with a strategy post ISIS wherein the US uses that victory as a lever to force Russia and its allies to the table. If the west does not take a stand, the entire M.E., in particular Israel could be in trouble with a powerful Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and Syria continuing to wreak havoc.
4
if israel gets into trouble, let them deal with it themselves. this should not be our war, nor should we be their proxies.
1
President Trump should find the courage to ignore the Russian collusion cloud over him and jettison the inherited policy of infringing on sovereign Syrian territory. Assad and the Russians are doing what's necessary to fight ISIS. In fact, they probably could do a better job if we weren't in their way.
8
Mutually Assured Bullying intended to defuse notions of Trump/Putin conflicts of interest. I'm not buying it . . .
3
But wait! In early March, so-called president Trump said the following about the Middle East: "“We want to create peace between Israel and the Palestinians. We will get it done. We will be working so hard to get it done. I think there is a very good chance and I think we will. It is something that I think is frankly, maybe, not as difficult as people have thought over the years.”
And you know when he says "we'll be working so hard to get it done" and "I think it's not as difficult as people have thought," then by golly, he will buckle down and do it!! Healthcare is a prime example. He got a program passed that costs less and gives everyone much better coverage, and he did it on the first day he took office.
So our man in Washington will come up with a wonderful policy that will also take care of Isis and Syria and Russia, and we'll get tired of winning all the time.
Either that or else we'll all be dragged into a war we don't want. Wonder which one is closer to the truth?
And you know when he says "we'll be working so hard to get it done" and "I think it's not as difficult as people have thought," then by golly, he will buckle down and do it!! Healthcare is a prime example. He got a program passed that costs less and gives everyone much better coverage, and he did it on the first day he took office.
So our man in Washington will come up with a wonderful policy that will also take care of Isis and Syria and Russia, and we'll get tired of winning all the time.
Either that or else we'll all be dragged into a war we don't want. Wonder which one is closer to the truth?
4
Some optimistic dreamers of course hope that from this conflict good might yet arise in the form of a free and autonomous nation of Kurdistan, a wedge shape beginning at west about the Mediterranean port of Iskenderun, widening eastward to include Van Gólu-Urmia Lakes region, offering secure welcome to Yazidis, Armenians, other traditionally marginalized and persecuted tribes living within new borders created, as are all, by pragmatic politicians. Peace there in our time may be possible if not so profitable as the current arms expenditures of all involved.
"will be followed by Russian air defense systems as targets,” the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement.'
That clearly does not say they will attempt to shoot down our aircraft.
The Russians, like everyone in the area, are respectful of the one super power in the world and may rattle their sabers but know full well that attacking us (under President Trump) would be an expensive and embarrassing experience for them.
That clearly does not say they will attempt to shoot down our aircraft.
The Russians, like everyone in the area, are respectful of the one super power in the world and may rattle their sabers but know full well that attacking us (under President Trump) would be an expensive and embarrassing experience for them.
1
at some point they may have had enough and do it, however. is it really worth the risk ? what in syria is worth this ??? we have no national interests there.
Russia has said for years this was what they would do - Trump doesn't care and the military just wants to fight. Well, good luck with this strategy.
2
If I were Putin I would count on the so-called president of the US to back down from any Russian provocation in order to "reset" his relation with Russia. We shall see if the so-called president can "win" this one.
I wouldn't
OBAMA was the one who invited the Russian aggression and OBAMA was the one who was caught telling Medvedev that he would have more latitude (to surrender America to Russia) after the election. CLINTON and OBAMA were responsible for the embarrassing and ineffective Russian reset where Russia gained 20% of OUR uranium and their very own silicone valley courtesy of that administration. Was any of that a "win"?
I'm just a nobody sitting out here in the Georgia woods...but doesn't the Russian threat seem like a promise to accelerate this to an act of war?
6
yes, i, but we have already accelerated it to an act of war by invading the sovereign nation of syria and dropping bombs wherever we choose. russia is in syria at the request of the syrian government,while we are unwanted invaders. i suspect they would like us to respect syrian airspace instead of shooting syrian planes down over their own country. we violate international law repeatedly, and then blame russia.
1
"An unclassified Gmail account is used as a backup."
You've got to be kidding me.
You've got to be kidding me.
4
During the invasion of Grenada, our troops ended up using their cell phones to call their Virginia HQ, because the comm systems just didn't work.
During the invasion of France, German Panzers refueled at French gas stations wherever found.
In addition to all the super fancy specialized military stuff, forces end up using whatever is to hand.
During the invasion of France, German Panzers refueled at French gas stations wherever found.
In addition to all the super fancy specialized military stuff, forces end up using whatever is to hand.
14
I'm simply here to see all the different ways people will use to outdo one another in attacking the president.
4
You mean like telling the truth about him and quoting him directly? Yeah, so savage.
Now, we are playing nuclear chess.
Is this what you wanted from your chosen President?
Is this what you wanted from your chosen President?
5
Re-examine how the President's enemies are talking about Russia. There is no voice of reason in DC. They're all talking war with Russia.
6
Obama let North Korea run wild in developing missiles and nuclear warheads, then assisted Iran in their program of becoming nuclear capable with ICBMs. Is that what you wanted from YOUR President?
1
You have to wonder if - god forbid -- the Russians shoot down a U.S. plane if Trump would have anything negative to say about Russia and Putin.
3
Great example, Trump does something stupid creating a needless risk of wider war, and the Democratic response is to doubt he'd go to war fast enough.
7
Because, of course, the opposite of whatever Trump, who does only evil, does must be good. The Times has succeeded in rendering its readers unable to think.
2
as we are the uninvited invaders of syria air space, and russia is in syria at that government's request, they would be legally in the right to shoot us down. we don't own the whole world yet, and it never went well for other's who tried to.
1
The Trump administration has proven to be supremely inept at everything. Why should foreign policy be any different. Trump will bungle this up too. Sad.
5
Yes, of course. Everyone knows the Obama administration's Syria policy was working like a charm.
1
So, we are still just gonna say that Syria was responsible for the gas attack and just go with it? Ever since everyone began asking for the evidence that story just fell off the radar..., or maybe the NYT has that now, did I miss something?
11
I am quite sure Russia and Syria can take care of ISIS in Syria without our help. Let's give them the space they need and get out of the M.E. The reality is, the U.S. had a lot of time and a lot of U.S. taxpayers money to bring peace to the region, and it seems to have been a huge failure. It's time for us to move on and rebuild America's crumbling infrastructure.
19
Second attempt to post:
This administration needs to do a cost/benefits analysis. There have been multiple civilian casualties, and the attack-ISIS force, which the US leads, is producing casualties at a disturbing pace.
Trump's promised plan on ISIS never materialized. Another bogus promise.
What we know is In the first 4 months of 2017, they've dropped 14,200 bombs and rockets, as well as other munitions on what they say is ISIS. What's bad is Trump already said he wanted to take out their families, so it makes you think why so many?
And human rights groups say that number is way further than we think.
In fact, Airwars-- the watchdog group based in the UK, believes the civilian death toll from airstrikes is more than 3,800.
What is the administration doing to lessen casualties?
Will the Pentagon conduct a review? Let's not be so callous, Mr. Trump.
This administration needs to do a cost/benefits analysis. There have been multiple civilian casualties, and the attack-ISIS force, which the US leads, is producing casualties at a disturbing pace.
Trump's promised plan on ISIS never materialized. Another bogus promise.
What we know is In the first 4 months of 2017, they've dropped 14,200 bombs and rockets, as well as other munitions on what they say is ISIS. What's bad is Trump already said he wanted to take out their families, so it makes you think why so many?
And human rights groups say that number is way further than we think.
In fact, Airwars-- the watchdog group based in the UK, believes the civilian death toll from airstrikes is more than 3,800.
What is the administration doing to lessen casualties?
Will the Pentagon conduct a review? Let's not be so callous, Mr. Trump.
4
Bashars is bad and by winning in this area we establish more control globally over Russia and China. We may also benefit in other ways. We could also not do anything which some people would be happy with, but we would loose in other ways as well. Weigh what the future will be like from such decisions and whichever one you like better, go ahead and choose.
I assume we will be targeting Russian war planes as a quid pro quo.
This is the beginning of a Russian vs America war through countries who cannot defend themselves.
Sound familiar to anyone remembers.
This is the beginning of a Russian vs America war through countries who cannot defend themselves.
Sound familiar to anyone remembers.
6
Wait, does it mean that president Trump is more adversarial towards Putin than Obama was? How is that possible?
5
And the Democrats both want him to be more so, and complain that he is so.
7
The issue is the Syrian civil war and the warring factions in Syria. There was a reason why President Obama had a laissez faire approach, all competing cells are against US interest. To defeat Isis is to help Assad and Russia; replacing him would leave a void and a bloody civil war, enter Russia and Iran. The US airstrike had nothing to do with Trump's foreign policy and everything to do with the protection of the US advisors who fell under attack by a Syrian warplane. Russia's bluster is just empty rhetoric. Turkey had shot down two Russian jet planes, threats came but no follow through; their Russian ambassador killed in Turkey, followed by warnings and little else; US launch cruise missile strikes in Syria; Russian red-flags followed; US shot down a Syrian warplane, Russian warnings, followed by...? The best posture is not to be involved in another quagmire; to pull out would roll back all the hard fought american gains; to remain, the more reliant the nations become on American presence and less dependent on their defensive capabilities!
1
George: Kindly check your facts. US advisors weren't under attack by Syria. At most is was SDF, Syria says it was ISIS. If you look at the maps as of a few days ago that was ISIS territory, which Syria now controls as it is mopping up ISIS rebels.
there are no "gians" here worth more war, where everyone will end up losers. we need to get out of there ; you labeled it correctly , a quagmire, quicksand. war in syria is a trap we should wisely avoid
1
Another triumph of Trump diplomacy. He's accomplished the impossible: playing up to Putin while simultaneously alienating him.
5
With Trump so busy making America great again, what could go wrong?
4
Of all the nations with a military presence in Syria, which one was actually invited in by Syria?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
9
the war with Russia will probably derail the special counsel's investigation.
3
You mean the Witch Hunt
1
This should be the most exciting news for liberals and neocons.
Increased tension with Russia in Syria. Just a few short steps away from a shooting war or at least Cold War 2.0.
Mission accomplished.
Increased tension with Russia in Syria. Just a few short steps away from a shooting war or at least Cold War 2.0.
Mission accomplished.
5
Like there wasn't any tension before.
1
Seeing as we never ramped down our military expenditures when the last Cold War ended, what difference does it make if we have some new version? The real Cold War is corporate America against the American citizen. Stuff like whether we blow a few $billion is Syria is a sideshow to excite & entertain the US peons in the bottom 90%.
1
cec:
Liberals, neocons, and their media allies dramatically ratcheted up tension after the election. They needed to invent a fiction to explain Hillary's embarrassing loss and at the same time, maintain a necessary enemy.
Liberals, neocons, and their media allies dramatically ratcheted up tension after the election. They needed to invent a fiction to explain Hillary's embarrassing loss and at the same time, maintain a necessary enemy.
2
Russia is protecting its influence in Syria post-ISIS.
2
ok with me.look at the map :syria is very close to russia and no where near the U.S. it's a russian cuba, so understandable that the russians (and syrians0 do not want us there. question ids why our so called leaders want to lead us into a war where there is no benefit to doing so for the country
1
Well they do have the president and Jesse Ventura on their side.
Hope everyone here is pleased with themselves as we hurtle recklessly toward confrontation w Russia. Are you not satisfied?? All of the Russo-hysteria, orchestrated and inflamed by Camp Hillary as a diversionary tactic to explain and salve the crushing election defeat. The Cold War relics, Deep State operatives, and our "hero" Resistance Fighters in the state dept must be falling over themselves in joy! The good old days of nuclear standoff are back again. For what? Arguing over a patch of desert in Syria, and arguing over phantom election tampering that never took place, and anyway our own CIA has indulged in many times. Again, when the bomb shelter drills start up again, I hope all the Russian fear mongers are finally content.
12
This comment makes no sense at all. It was Camp Trump -- not Camp Hillary -- that shot down the Syrian plane. It was Trump -- not Hillary -- that fired missiles into Syria. It is Trump -- not Hillary -- that continues Obama's poor decision to support anti-Assad forces. If Trump doesn't want to "argue over a patch of desert", all he has to do is to withdraw our monetary support and "advisers" -- as Reagan did in Lebanon. The present crisis is on Trump.
5
yep, she didn't even win and still is hurtling us toward confrontation with russia. one of the reasons i could not vote for her ( relax, i didn't vote for trump either) was her insistanceon a U.S. "no fly zone" in syria.... like we owned the place.
well , here we are with the same mess minus hillary. guess she did "prevail" after all.
well , here we are with the same mess minus hillary. guess she did "prevail" after all.
You Trump supporters amaze me! Trump WON the election. He was sworn in as president on January 20 -- five months ago. Since then he -- only he -- not Clinton -- has been president and commander-in-chief. He is the one who controls whether we have warplanes over Syria and whether we shoot down other planes. He has the ability to declare a no-fly zone or not to -- to shoot down other planes or not to -- to keep us militarily involved in Syria or not to -- to shoot down Iranian drones, or not to, even though those drones were aimed at ISIS, even though Iran itself is a target of ISIS.
At some point, Trump has to take responsibility for his decisions. I understand you hate Hillary -- but you cannot blame her forever -- especially since she was never president or commander-in-chief herself -- only a despised opponent.
At some point, Trump has to take responsibility for his decisions. I understand you hate Hillary -- but you cannot blame her forever -- especially since she was never president or commander-in-chief herself -- only a despised opponent.
1
Many of these comments speak of war as if it were 1940. There is nothing brave about two nuclear Counties going to war. In 1945, we filled in the bomb craters and helped to rebuild Europe. If there is a nuclear war there will be no living thing to claim victory. Those at ground zero will be the fortunate ones, all others will die eventually from radiation.
Nuclear war must never happen. The only tools left to us to resolve disputes and conflicts will be our heads, hearts, and our ability to do all possible to preserve this earth.
Nuclear war must never happen. The only tools left to us to resolve disputes and conflicts will be our heads, hearts, and our ability to do all possible to preserve this earth.
11
agree. and the rest of the world will go down in flames with us. has anyone asked them, or us in the states, for that matter, how they feel about dying a horrible death and destruction of this beautiful planet so that we can "show the russians" who is boss. we either coexist or die. the weapons we have developed have made war too risky to allow. that was what the UN was set up to prevent.
1
Trump's foreign policy continues to be the clear and convincing "all of the above". He's checked out of formerly presidential decisions delegating to others who have not been identified to the nation. "All options are on the table" is a roadmap to international chaos. BAD.
2
Beginning with the fact that our forces are illegally operating in Syria in violation of its sovereignty, there are serious questions that need to be answered. Who ordered the shootdown? Why was it done? And to what end?
9
Two nuclear armed, equally competent armies backing different factions in a 5 way gang war. What could go wrong? I guess it's on...
5
must be the days loud NOISE to take our thoughts away from trumps real issues and how will he fight the legal war.
3
How arrogant do Trump haters have to be to believe that our military would shoot down a plane in Syria just to distract them?
2
The Russians cannot afford a conflict with anyone but defenseless citizens. They would probably bankrupt themselves fighting any other conflict.
1
Russia has an economy about the size of Italy and a population slightly larger than Japan's. The only reason they have clout is their nuclear weapons.
Do you believe that we can afford all out nuclear war with Russia?
1
i prefer no war to any needless war. in war there are no winners. haven't we learned anything from the last 60 years of useless wars and suffering ? we could live in a paradise now with the money we have wasted on our useless wars.
Trump betrays his fears about his own confidence in himself by putting on a trumped up show of what he hopes is toughness but which is a pale poor soul's substitute for strength of will and purpose. The problem for us all is that he doesn't know the difference between personal strength and mere show of insecure bluster.
3
This administration needs to do a cost/benefits analysis. There have been multiple civilian casualties, and the attack-ISIS force, which the US leads, is producing casualties at a disturbing pace.
Trump's promised plan on ISIS never materialized. Another bogus promise.
What we know is In the first 4 months of 2017, they've dropped 14,200 bombs and rockets, as well as other munitions on what they say is ISIS. What's bad is Trump already said he wanted to take out their families, so it makes you think why so many?
And human rights groups say that number is way further than we think.
In fact, Airwars-- a watchdog group based in the UK, believes the civilian death toll from airstrikes is more than 3,800.
What is the administration doing to lessen casualties?
Will the Pentagon conduct a review? Let's not be so callous, Mr. Trump.
Trump's promised plan on ISIS never materialized. Another bogus promise.
What we know is In the first 4 months of 2017, they've dropped 14,200 bombs and rockets, as well as other munitions on what they say is ISIS. What's bad is Trump already said he wanted to take out their families, so it makes you think why so many?
And human rights groups say that number is way further than we think.
In fact, Airwars-- a watchdog group based in the UK, believes the civilian death toll from airstrikes is more than 3,800.
What is the administration doing to lessen casualties?
Will the Pentagon conduct a review? Let's not be so callous, Mr. Trump.
An ill-conceived foreign policy crafted without the expertise of the state department is bad enough. But it could get worse if this escalates and Trump decides to invoke a national emergency to silence internal critics. There are already too many civilian deaths in Syria. All lives matter.
1
very few of our lives matter to the washington leadership, and haven't for a long long time.
1
It was my understanding that both Russia and Assad's forces were fighting ISIS, and Trump has previously suggested that the US let them have at it. Why then would Syria or Russia attack anti-ISIS forces? Trump has abdicated his role as Commander in Chief, saying he will defer to "my Generals" in the field to decide what military actions to take without having to confer with him. Now our Mideast policy is up to military leaders without civilian or diplomatic input, and predictably, given no overriding policy or parameters, the military is escalating the fighting.
We are led to believe that Russia is an evil aggressor trying to swallow up the Mideast when in fact it's there to support its ally against US efforts to topple the Assad government, just as we toppled Saddam in Iraq and Gaddafi in Lybia. Who is the aggressor?
We are led to believe that Russia is an evil aggressor trying to swallow up the Mideast when in fact it's there to support its ally against US efforts to topple the Assad government, just as we toppled Saddam in Iraq and Gaddafi in Lybia. Who is the aggressor?
5
This is easily resolved by looking at the map. That was ISIS defended land near an SDF outpost, and Syrian forces have been sweeping through that ISIS territory and driving out the terrorists, particularly from the strategic crossroads right there.
If the voters of any country would vote to remove a tyrant but are not allowed to, by threat and force of violence, the "sovereignty" issue no longer holds. The "rebels" have just as much right to Syria as Assad claims he does. As an invited ally to the opposition government, the US has just as much right to assist/defend that government as Russia claims it has. Russia has just as much right to be blown out of the sky for attacking a US aircraft as it claims it has to try to do it to an American plane. The one sided declaration by Russia that they were "invited" to help the "government of Syria" is nonsense.
1
but why are we getting dragged into this quicksand when the U.S. has nothing to gain from yet another war in the middle east ?
Just what we don't need considering we have a President who wonders aloud why nobody uses nuclear weapons.
4
To me, this is terribly confusing and frightening. America should not be shooting down Syrian planes in Syria.
7
Putin is unaccustomed to playing chess with opponents who are stronger and more aggressive than himself. It's high time to remind him that Russia is NOT the USSR! The world will be a better place if we stand up to his petit little empire games.
9
Come on, remind him then
2
Brave talk, you willing to fight on the front lines?
8
Underestimating your opponent is a straight road to failure. That might be OK in a game of chess or Monopoly, where the opponents shake hands afterwards and go about their lives.
Unfortunately it does not work that way in affairs of the State. Miscalculations could result in American's coming home in body bags, as opposed to just coming home.
President Putin, former head of the Russian FSB, has held onto his power for decades.
President Trump is a reality TV game show host currently looking for the Get Out Of Jail Free card.
Unfortunately it does not work that way in affairs of the State. Miscalculations could result in American's coming home in body bags, as opposed to just coming home.
President Putin, former head of the Russian FSB, has held onto his power for decades.
President Trump is a reality TV game show host currently looking for the Get Out Of Jail Free card.
4
General Dunford wants 'to re-establish deconfliction.' I wouldn't trust the competency of anyone who expresses himself in this manner. God help us.
9
I served with General Dunford in Afghanistan. He is scholar and gifted leader. You have no clue as to what it takes to get to his level.
This is just for show. An attempt to fool America. Trump and Putin are peas in a pod.
11
U.S. Responds: "Sounds great. When's the last time you deployed a new operational airframe, Moscow?"
3
One hope the realize we may shoot back. What a mess that need not be.
I'm trying to figure out who the bigger barbaric beast is; Assad for killing his own people and destroying it, or Russia for helping him.
The world is not dangerous. It is run by dangerous people.
The world is not dangerous. It is run by dangerous people.
7
and not to be outdone in the killing games, now the U.S. is killing syrians too. does that make us barbaric too, or just war criminals and murderers ???
Putin needs to go.
4
Ah! yet, we are playing HIS game now: he moves, we respond.
Is the where you wanted to be: responding to the moves of someone else rather than forcing that someone else to respond to yours?
I take it you've never played chess before, Donald...
Is the where you wanted to be: responding to the moves of someone else rather than forcing that someone else to respond to yours?
I take it you've never played chess before, Donald...
I see nothing but war with Russia. I'm good with it. We all should be.
2
Do you all remember the cold war? Do you all remember why it was so important that it remain cold? Remember the phrase Mutually Assured Destruction?
4
A war with Russia would be the war to end all wars. In other words, we will cease to exist. Can't believe someone would be fine with that, but our country is getting more bizarre with each passing day.
3
Tough to be good with war between the U.S. and Russia, even from a fallout shelter.
1
The US foreign policy in the Middle East has been failing for decades.
Trump policy is just continuation that failing policy. Russia and Syria fight ISIS and we fight Russia and Syria.
Like previous administrations, Trump sides with Saudis, Israel, and the gulf states against Iran who is fighting ISIS.
Trump is on the wrong side of history.
Trump policy is just continuation that failing policy. Russia and Syria fight ISIS and we fight Russia and Syria.
Like previous administrations, Trump sides with Saudis, Israel, and the gulf states against Iran who is fighting ISIS.
Trump is on the wrong side of history.
44
Correct. And everyone makes tons of money by selling weapons to everyone else, financed by the US taxpayer!
2
I think the continual battles between the Shiites and the Sunnis and between the Democrats and the Republicans are on the wrong side of history .
How far is too far to try to paint a divide between Putin/45; possibilities of loss of American life all for wag the dog.
2
Americas and Saudi creation ISIS designed to wreck havoc in Iraq and Syria and divide each of those countries into 3: Sunni, Kurd and leftover gov countries has failed and what is worst those antigovernment groups don't even know that they work for US/Saudi coalition and neither do most americans. What a mess. Turkey, Iran and Russia should just quickly join forces and finish off anti-government thugs (no matter if Asad is not a great president but he is much better than thugs we support, ISIS, Al Nusra etc etc)
8
Settle down, people. Donald " is new to all this" but will definitely, positively, most certainly blame it ALL on Obama. Seriously.
26
When Ryan said Trump was 'new to all this', why didn't someone remind him that the Amateur boasted that he knew ISIS "better than the Generals"? He is unfit to be Commander in Chief.
It won't be long now. Will my student debts be forgiven?
8
Well, here comes a potential crisis we all feared was coming---one of those happenings on the world stage that no angry tweet can solve.
15
Don't know what was wrong with my previous comment, but seriously folks, if you're wondering how Trump could get us into a nuclear war and end civilization, this is a likely scenario for that. If Russia shoots down our jet, tensions rise, forces mobilize, some submarine commander gets testy and sinks a destroyer, and nuclear weapons get launched.
So if all this goes down soon and civilization ends, it's been nice knowing a lot of you, hope to see y'all in the afterlife (assuming there is one), and maybe with luck, the next species to gain dominance on this planet works out better than we did.
So if all this goes down soon and civilization ends, it's been nice knowing a lot of you, hope to see y'all in the afterlife (assuming there is one), and maybe with luck, the next species to gain dominance on this planet works out better than we did.
19
The next species couldn't possibly do any worse.
4
I hate to say it but I think the current administration is playing this right, for now.
We should have enforced a no fly zone when Assad blatantly gassed his own people with Sarin in 2013. An escalation now could put us in direct military action against Russia, a grave concern. Nonetheless, Putin has gone to great lengths to divide our opinions on Russia. Surely, the last thing he wants right now is a United States united in despising him. It would only take one false move over Syria to dash it all.
We should have enforced a no fly zone when Assad blatantly gassed his own people with Sarin in 2013. An escalation now could put us in direct military action against Russia, a grave concern. Nonetheless, Putin has gone to great lengths to divide our opinions on Russia. Surely, the last thing he wants right now is a United States united in despising him. It would only take one false move over Syria to dash it all.
4
This must be step 5 in making America great again.
All those who are proud, please stand up.
All those who are proud, please stand up.
9
Will Trump's MAGA hats change from red to camo after he starts WWIII?
War is TRUMPs out...its all very clear. There is no other way for him to move forward. Whos going to impeach a sitting President while were at war ?
7
Given Trump's gushings over Putin and his indebtedness to Russian kleptocrats it is legitimate to question whether the U.S. president has divided loyalties.
2
This is pushing us closer to direct conflict and nobody responsible is driving.
13
Tensions escalating between Russia and the US in Syria, US sending upwards of another 5,000 troops to Afghanistan, 7 sailors die and a destroyer almost sinks off the coast of Japan, and nothing out of our Commander in Chief.
Where is the leadership? Where is the strategy? Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, George Bush Jr all had investigations conducted during their terms, all were able to deal with major crises and kept the public informed.
The vacuum is deafening.
Where is the leadership? Where is the strategy? Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, George Bush Jr all had investigations conducted during their terms, all were able to deal with major crises and kept the public informed.
The vacuum is deafening.
11
The ONE good thing that Trump wanted to do was de-escalate with Russia. Honestly, I don't care if he and his brethren, partners, cats and dogs benefit - it's a GREAT idea. The old establishment, upset by losing power to Trump and aided by the media posse on "Russian collusion" (because they have no other horse to ride) has precluded that. Yes, you too NYT. And so here we are. Like the other readers have said - this is very dangerous. And for what?
8
Do you not realize that it is Trump, who has taken two actions, which have escalated the situation in Syria?
Do you not realize that it is Trump, who has taken two actions, which have escalated the situation in Syria?
=================
Oh, no! Trump is doing exactly what Putin wants him to do, remember?
It's impossible for Trump to have escalated anything
=================
Oh, no! Trump is doing exactly what Putin wants him to do, remember?
It's impossible for Trump to have escalated anything
I agree, but I think the reason was to show that he was tough on Russia, and not whatever the NYT et alia keep trumpeting (no pun intended). And whereas he ordered the missile strikes to great fanfare, I wonder if he even ordered/approved/knew about the plane being shot down. Just look at the weird non- statement from the White House?!
I don't usually agree with the deputy chairman of the Russian Senate’s defense committee, but in this case I have to agree. Trump and his administration is a source of danger and has raised that danger to a qualitatively new level.
Russia and the United States will eventually be united in the effort against ISIS but sadly there will most likely be a great human toll beforehand from the hands of militant extremests.
Defeat Daesh and a rag tag mob of assorted rebel groups and be done with it. The quagmire of Iraq is directly related to regime change there as the only political justification for that war. Regime change in Syria as a goal, in spite of human rights concerns, has and will involve rival forces in continuing conflict, rivalry and innocent civilians the victim of these continuing acts of war. What is America's aim? They are fighting the forces that can bring some peace, albeit grudging, to the region. War with Iran. War with Russia. These are high stakes missteps in the Middle East.
4
None of the forces America has fought in Syria "can bring some peace." Remember, Assad started this war. The Assad regime has killed more than all other factions combined (yes, even ISIS). There is no peace possible with that, regardless what America or Russia do.
9
regardless, the U.S. has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by engaging n this foreign war. nothing. there is no compelling arguement from a national interest or national security standpoint for military involvement in syria, or war with russia, or with iran. none. why is U.S. policy suicidal and delusional ???
I know! Let's invade Syria, take over, install an interim government, "establish Democracy", hold elections, take a bow, shake everybody's hand, and leave. What could go wrong?
U.S. air and naval forces have a perfect right, if not an obligation, to defend U.S. supported ground troops. Putin needs to be confronted and kept in his box. Obama allowed Putin to do whatever he pleased in both the Ukraine and Syria. There is a new sheriff in town and Putin is seeing how far he can go.
4
A new sheriff in town? I'd be very careful how I portray your white house BFF. He has so far shown an inability to follow through on any direct threats. Witness, for instance, his subdued behavior when he went to Mexico after trashing the whole population and threatening to make them pay for the wall. We're still waiting...
The Pentagon has stated it was acting within the agreed upon rules of engagement when it shot that plane down. It's the Russians who are out of line on this. That Syrian plane was not targeting ISIS, as they lied they were, it was targeting resistance forces in Syria. They know the rules, and so do the Russians. If we targeted someone we shouldn't have, and one of our planes was shot down, we'd have no right to complain about it, either, if we have violated the rules of engagement. Those at the Pentagon are not usually my favorite people, either, nor us the CIC, but in this case, they are right and it's Moscow that's wrong.
So, all you Russian supporters in here can continue to bad mouth our president. Go ahead, but I don't see how you can continue to believe there was some sort of collusion between Putin and Trump after this, because it's pretty clear they are on opposite sides of the fence, and whether you like it or not, the Pentagon and President Trump are on the right side of the fence in this one - the side of the United States of America - the side you should be on, too.
So, all you Russian supporters in here can continue to bad mouth our president. Go ahead, but I don't see how you can continue to believe there was some sort of collusion between Putin and Trump after this, because it's pretty clear they are on opposite sides of the fence, and whether you like it or not, the Pentagon and President Trump are on the right side of the fence in this one - the side of the United States of America - the side you should be on, too.
2
Collusion at one point in time does not preclude conflict at a later point. Suppose Putin wanted an inexperienced and volatile president and a divided U.S. for reasons of his own. That achieved, there is nothing to stop him moving on to the next step -- whatever that may be.
2
Oh, you don't see? So this somehow just erases everything that happened.
.
Nice try but your boy and his administration is as crooked as a dog's hind leg. This doesn't change any of that.
.
Nice try but your boy and his administration is as crooked as a dog's hind leg. This doesn't change any of that.
2
You are seeing the beginning of a turf war who will rule the area, after the defeat of ISIS, Russia or the US ?
The US attack on the chief Russian's ally in the region is a pro-active move in that direction.
The US is supporting Israel, that has zero interest in seeing Russian air and Naval bases in a post ISIS Syria.
The Russian are supporting Assad, precisely to keep their bases.
Unless their is an agreement on how to carve up the post ISIS Near East into Russian and US spheres of influences, the fight will accelerate
The US attack on the chief Russian's ally in the region is a pro-active move in that direction.
The US is supporting Israel, that has zero interest in seeing Russian air and Naval bases in a post ISIS Syria.
The Russian are supporting Assad, precisely to keep their bases.
Unless their is an agreement on how to carve up the post ISIS Near East into Russian and US spheres of influences, the fight will accelerate
3
"The Russians threatened to stop using the hotline after the April cruise missile strike. But by the next month, the two sides were using it more than ever.
This is more macabre than any scene in Dr. Strangelove. I'm sure Kubrick is rolling in his grave.
This is more macabre than any scene in Dr. Strangelove. I'm sure Kubrick is rolling in his grave.
2
Perfect
And we have beauty pageant promoter as president.
And we have beauty pageant promoter as president.
18
That's my sentiments exactly. I feel real safe with DT at the helm.....
4
M O , I'd rather have a guy who says what means, means what he says, and stays consistent between the two.
.
In other words I'd rather not have a liar.
.
In other words I'd rather not have a liar.
1
Definitely. Nuclear war was not in our consciousness during Mr. Obama's eight years; unlike today.
1
Trump has a great Plan. He is creating a safe zone for Syrian refugees. Assad has attacked his own people for years. Russia is happy killing Syrians. For Putin Syrians are target practice. Neither Russia or Putin did little against ISIS until America got involved. Now that ISIS is being killed Russia and Assad want the spoils. Not in your life. A new and safe Kurdistan, our allies. Putin should be concerned about feeding his starving citizens. Their economy is the size of Mexico's...lol
4
Spoils is the exact term for what's left of Syria
1
We of the US respect the Sovereign territory of Syria, but we do not believe that requires that we respect one side or the other in their civil war. Since both sides in question are fighting ISIS, both must be preserved until ISIS is completely gone. Assad the dictator does not represent Syrian Sovereignty. He is just one side of Syrian Sovereignty. If Russia interferes with the civil war, they are also interfering with Syrian Sovereignty.
1
Turkey shot down Russian bomber over Syria and they have become best friends with Putin since. The key to friendship with Moscow is a straightforward, bold military response to Russian aggression, both in Syria and Eastern Europe.
8
I'm sure Trump checked this out with his overlord Putin beforehand. Trump is an extremely valuable Russian asset. The investigation imperils that relationship. Releasing a few missiles at Syria's airport and downing a plane is a cost well justified by giving Trump the appearance of being tough with Russia. Russia can handle the fallout with Assad. Trumpettes and news outlets allowed themselves to be duped when Trump fired the missiles. Are they still as gullible?
1
It's all part of a VAST VAST conspiracy!!!!
Anything that Trump does to annoy Russia is all part of the cunning plot to throw us off the conspiracy!
Anything that Trump does to annoy Russia is all part of the cunning plot to throw us off the conspiracy!
The problem with US policy in Syria is that has tried to ignore the fundamental reality that no solution is possible as long as Assad remains on the throne. It is his continued presence in Damascus that enable the Russian and Iranian interference and complications. It is his continued presence that compounds the horrific destruction of his own people. It is Assad the thwarts any possibility of settlement and foments this perpetual deadly multi-party free for all.
No strategy, no definition of victory, no consistent understanding of who the enemy is------and most importantly, no benefit to anybody other than the war profiteers and military contractors, all financed by US taxpayers. What could possibly go wrong?
9
The need right now is judgment--cool, collected judgment. Wedded to sound principles of right and wrong but by no means rigid, inflexible, unbending. What a mess! Does the President have these things? Is he that kind of man?
We should pray (if we are praying people) for Mr. Trump and his government. We should pray for the United States of America.
What a mess!
Let's be praying for our country.
We should pray (if we are praying people) for Mr. Trump and his government. We should pray for the United States of America.
What a mess!
Let's be praying for our country.
3
This is now a quagmire. The US and Russia Proxy war in Syria may lead to a real war between US and Russia. Not to worry Trump will not Start a war with Comrade Putin.
2
Trump is over his head here. Someone with personal influence should speak up. And I don't mean Fox and Five or Michael Savage or Sean Hannity. or Alex Jones. I mean who ? That's the problem; there is no " who " . We are living through "Idiocracy ". I refuse to pray... atheist.... but I'm tempted.
4
Trump says: You think Conner McGregor vs Floyd Mayweather's TV ratings are going to be high, wait to you see the ratings with "US vs Russia".
5
We're still miles away from fixing ANY of the messes we have created in Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Afghanistan, Egypt, or Yemen, and yet here we are now shooting Syrian planes out of he sky and risking war with none other than Russia?
We have left nothing but a trail of death, destruction and chaos in in our wake across the Middle East all to protect so-called "American Interests". It's more than about time our leaders start listing these EXACT "interests" because, I'm pretty sure the American people are not onboard with this suicide pact we seem hellbent on carrying out and they certainly do not agree that another war or the death of even one more American soldier is the answer to our current list of problems in the Middle East.
This isn't even about national security anymore and it never was to begin with. Not a single terrorist attack in the US these last 20 years has been carried out by an Iranian, or Iraqi, or Libyan, or Syrian, or Afghani, or Yemeni. Yet we have taken incredible steps to directly and indirectly attack, topple or sow chaos in these nations. While the countries whose citizens HAVE carried out some the most heinous terrorist attacks on American and on American soil like, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, UAE and Kuwait, enjoy an insane amount of official US financial, diplomatic and military support.
All this talk about ISIS is just the latest red herring in a long list of them to justify more aggression and mission creep in yet another country.
We have left nothing but a trail of death, destruction and chaos in in our wake across the Middle East all to protect so-called "American Interests". It's more than about time our leaders start listing these EXACT "interests" because, I'm pretty sure the American people are not onboard with this suicide pact we seem hellbent on carrying out and they certainly do not agree that another war or the death of even one more American soldier is the answer to our current list of problems in the Middle East.
This isn't even about national security anymore and it never was to begin with. Not a single terrorist attack in the US these last 20 years has been carried out by an Iranian, or Iraqi, or Libyan, or Syrian, or Afghani, or Yemeni. Yet we have taken incredible steps to directly and indirectly attack, topple or sow chaos in these nations. While the countries whose citizens HAVE carried out some the most heinous terrorist attacks on American and on American soil like, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, UAE and Kuwait, enjoy an insane amount of official US financial, diplomatic and military support.
All this talk about ISIS is just the latest red herring in a long list of them to justify more aggression and mission creep in yet another country.
12
According to a NYT oped piece today, Trump has increased air strikes in Syria and Iraq causing a "staggering" increase in civilian deaths. Some figures cite up to 4,000. That pales in comparison to Vietnam where 1 million civilians died. So what's a few thousand in Syria? I mean the US didn't care in Vietnam, so why should it care in Syria or Iraq or Afghanistan or Yemen or Cambodia or Sudan or Pakistan or Laos or Grenada or Panama and on and on and on....
Anybody on this comment page want a world war over Syria?
Anybody on this comment page want a world war over Syria?
No.
2
Trump tried working with the Russians before, and look where that got us. Now he's going to lead us into a war with no clear objectives and no exit strategy.
Might be time to come clean on the election collusion, Mr. Trump, if you expect any support for troops in Syria.
Might be time to come clean on the election collusion, Mr. Trump, if you expect any support for troops in Syria.
7
An analysis of this situation suggests that a case can be made that the president of the United States has committed treason against our own forces. Trump encouraged Saudi Arabia and it's Arab allies to unite against Qatar. Qatar is a key American ally in the Syrian conflict. Our air base is in Qatar. We have thousands of personnel in Qatar. Trump's ham-handed "diplomacy" has compromised our military effort and possibly endangered American military personnel. When articles of impeachment are finalised this episode should be included. Trump and his administration represent the greatest case of powerful Americans acting against our nation since the Civil War.
15
Let's not take at face value everything the Russians say. They have to preserve the facade that they too enjoy of independence of action.
Indeed, I'd submit that much of what comes out of the Kremlin is not too different that that which comes out of Pyongyang: rubbish intended to scare and divide the American public and the West more generally.
Indeed, I'd submit that much of what comes out of the Kremlin is not too different that that which comes out of Pyongyang: rubbish intended to scare and divide the American public and the West more generally.
5
Leave war to the generals and this is the path it always goes down. That's why we are supposed to have a President who controls the military's adventurism and escalation and acts like a statesman.
So much for that with Trump, who recently said he would let the Generals do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan. Presumably Syria as well. He's too busy tweeting and running for cover to worry about the world. Numero Uno is, and always has been, his only concern.
So much for that with Trump, who recently said he would let the Generals do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan. Presumably Syria as well. He's too busy tweeting and running for cover to worry about the world. Numero Uno is, and always has been, his only concern.
9
So often this is the path we go down whether it's left to the generals or not.
6
It's OK everybody, not to worry! Trump is sending his lawyer to Syria to explain why this is fake news while he comes up with a really amazing tweet. All good.
8
Whatever action is in the US best interest, the main US military bases the US uses to keep a hand on the situation there, are in Qatar. There were some official position tweets of the US administration concerning the situation on the Qatar borders recently.
A picture of sawing off a limb one sits on comes to mind...
A picture of sawing off a limb one sits on comes to mind...
Not to worry.
We can still rely on our NATO allies to back us up if the temperature rises in Syria.
Right?
We can still rely on our NATO allies to back us up if the temperature rises in Syria.
Right?
13
Well I'm no general but I know more about ISIS and Syria than Trump. I'd call the Russians' bluff with stealth aircraft.
2
I will respect that opinion when I find out you are one of the troops on the front line, if there is a front line.
5
While we would all feel better if someone other than Trump was in charge, reports coming out of Russia say its economy is crashing. Our military is ignoring Trump.
2
Trump, I respected you when you campaigned on an American First policy. Regime change in Syria is not about America First. Seems our involvement in Syria has more to do with Israel and Saudi Arabia First.
11
Israel unlikely but our gov and Saudi were declined by Assad a nice pipeline through his country and strangely right after that destabilization started by creating and supporting terror groups against Damascus gov. The whole world writes and knows about this except american public and media. Like they live under a rock.
2
Maybe Putin in throwing Trump a lifeline in order to throw the investigations of collusion with the Russians off the track. Both of these autocrats want the riches which will come from exploration of the Arctic oil resources.
5
The U.S downing a Syrian warplane is as illegal as Bush invading Iraq back in 2003.
The Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand started WWI. The U.S has not vital interest in Syria. There is no reason for us to go to war with Russia over Syria.
Unlike the U.S which has more, than 5 Military bases, in the region ( Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Djibouti, Turkey) the Tartus Naval Base is the only Russia base in the region.
Does anyone seriously think that Putin will abandon Tartus and Assad?
The U.S should not risk War with Russia over Syria, when we are told there is not enough money for Medicare, Medicaid, and education.
Let's make AMERICANS first again. ( emphasis on Americans, not America )
The Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand started WWI. The U.S has not vital interest in Syria. There is no reason for us to go to war with Russia over Syria.
Unlike the U.S which has more, than 5 Military bases, in the region ( Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Djibouti, Turkey) the Tartus Naval Base is the only Russia base in the region.
Does anyone seriously think that Putin will abandon Tartus and Assad?
The U.S should not risk War with Russia over Syria, when we are told there is not enough money for Medicare, Medicaid, and education.
Let's make AMERICANS first again. ( emphasis on Americans, not America )
13
Russia doesn't need Assad to keep Tartus.
Maybe it is Putin's thought that this "Trump experiment" hasn't worked out so good. Sanctions still in place, Tillerson hamstrung, Macron wins, NATO not shredded. So, he wants to shoot down our plane(s) over Syria. Wow. We will have to see if this is a head fake to throw off thoughts that their is a under the covers deal between Putin and Trump/Trump's people. We can only hope that this comment is a tiny rattle of the saber by Russia/Putin. If not, it is a very dangerous moment.
1
All our hopes rest on the possibility that our foreign policy may be handled by someone who is capable to think in more than a few angry inarticulate tweets. So sad.
4
We should not be involved in Syria. Although Assad is a vicious dictator, the country is not a vital interest of the U.S.
On the other hand, we should permit the entry of many more Syria refugees.
On the other hand, we should permit the entry of many more Syria refugees.
5
I believe President Trump has a chance now to atone for his failure to assure our allies in Europe that we are all together as solid partners in NATO. The way to do this is to order the mobilization of the Sixth Fleet and to send an armada of war ships and submarines to the Eastern Mediterranean. This would be a clear message to Putin that the Western alliance cannot accept Russia’s threats to Western Democracies anymore.
For those who may question the nature of the Russian threat, I would describe the following. First, is Russia’s meddling in internal election campaigns both in the U.S. and in Europe. Second, Russia’s policy in Syria to bomb civilian areas with the aim of causing more people to flee and seek safety and refuge in Western Europe. We should not underestimate the impact that the floods of Syrian refugees have done to weaken the traditional good relations among members of the European Union. And the greater the Russian war efforts in Syria to drive people out of their country towards Europe, the greater will be the internal European conflicts, and the more Putin would be assured of the success of his plans against Western democracies.
The United States has the high moral ground in Syria. President Assad’s and Russia's warplanes are used to kill innocent people and to cause destruction in the county. President Trump can stand to Putin and tell him that America does not accept so-called warnings from Russia, or especially from Assad
For those who may question the nature of the Russian threat, I would describe the following. First, is Russia’s meddling in internal election campaigns both in the U.S. and in Europe. Second, Russia’s policy in Syria to bomb civilian areas with the aim of causing more people to flee and seek safety and refuge in Western Europe. We should not underestimate the impact that the floods of Syrian refugees have done to weaken the traditional good relations among members of the European Union. And the greater the Russian war efforts in Syria to drive people out of their country towards Europe, the greater will be the internal European conflicts, and the more Putin would be assured of the success of his plans against Western democracies.
The United States has the high moral ground in Syria. President Assad’s and Russia's warplanes are used to kill innocent people and to cause destruction in the county. President Trump can stand to Putin and tell him that America does not accept so-called warnings from Russia, or especially from Assad
2
JpeKo: May I suggest reading from other sources to get a better idea what is really going on in Syria as well as other countries.
3
Let's have this war. Apparently it's what everyone wants.
2
We should only be in Syria to fight ISIS not to support groups who wish to over throw Assad.
2
We really shouldn't bother with Syria at all. No way to bring about peace there, and the water is running out anyway, so the nation has no future.
2
Sure now that lifting the Russian sanctions are off the table, Putin can get back to the usual
war mongering with the US.
war mongering with the US.
1
"“It seems that the United States under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.” (Frants Klintsevich, deputy chairman of the Russian Senate’s defense committee)
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Frants, but Trump is YOUR candidate. There's an old saying, "Be careful what you wish for".
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Frants, but Trump is YOUR candidate. There's an old saying, "Be careful what you wish for".
3
Putin and Trump's little dance, the second part. Of course they're not working together. Not them.
2
One reason to be really, really careful in this disaster/war/conflict is: 6000.
As a very few of you may realize, two of the combatants have at least 6000 atomic weapons each. They are: Russia, with a cagey, careful, experienced president who is not known to bluff, and the USA, where we are without a real leader except a bluffer, liar and self-promoter, who is totally without military experience or knowledge, except for the four years he spent in a military high school, which his daddy made him do. After that, he refused - five times - to serve in our armed services, even though he was asked to five times to do so by his draft board in NYC. It was a "bad heel" his daddy said.
He is not the kind of person to run our military, let alone our country.
As a very few of you may realize, two of the combatants have at least 6000 atomic weapons each. They are: Russia, with a cagey, careful, experienced president who is not known to bluff, and the USA, where we are without a real leader except a bluffer, liar and self-promoter, who is totally without military experience or knowledge, except for the four years he spent in a military high school, which his daddy made him do. After that, he refused - five times - to serve in our armed services, even though he was asked to five times to do so by his draft board in NYC. It was a "bad heel" his daddy said.
He is not the kind of person to run our military, let alone our country.
7
as he was Commander-in-Chief of the military, is there any way we can recall Obama back into service?
5
yes, of course. Syria was like Switzerland when Obama was president.
Time to invite Trump back to Moscow for more golden dossier fun to cool things down....
So we've jettisoned the Trump Is a Russian Spy theory, and now we're going with Trump's Gonna Start WWIII with the Russians, is that right, liberals?
3
Does anyone really know what the truth is with any of these people, destroyer?
Trump is a tireless self-promoter, but no 'Russian Spy.' He's also NOT out to start WWIII. What he IS regardless of whether you are a liberal or conservative, he has absolutely NO idea about how to run a country, let alone a war. He is simply an easy mark for a Putin, an Assad, a Saudi Arabia, or an oil company to take advantage of while destroying our country and it's government. That's what you conservatives always wanted, isn't it? The sooner this country realizes the truth and jettisons the absurd notions that no government is good government, that catering to the rich to make sure they get richer will somehow enrich us all, that our country, among the most diverse in the world, needs to build a wall to keep out 'foreigners,' the better!
2
I'm sick of our troops being sent to Afghanistan and the Middle East. It's ridiculous to assume that any outside threat will bring these regions to a peace of equals.
These are very dangerous times, and how I miss feeling that the Commander in Chief was reasoned, stable, and responsible for his actions. That assurance left with Obama. Now, in addition to outside enemies, I fear because of the pitifully inadequate and even dangerous lack of aptitude displayed by the man elected by the rust belt, who had done so well in making other decisions that led to new jobs and industries in their states.... who sat around and wanted the gubment to give them a job just like their daddy had, or they were going to rise up and revolt. So, they elected Trump. And now we have this idiot at the helm.....
These are very dangerous times, and how I miss feeling that the Commander in Chief was reasoned, stable, and responsible for his actions. That assurance left with Obama. Now, in addition to outside enemies, I fear because of the pitifully inadequate and even dangerous lack of aptitude displayed by the man elected by the rust belt, who had done so well in making other decisions that led to new jobs and industries in their states.... who sat around and wanted the gubment to give them a job just like their daddy had, or they were going to rise up and revolt. So, they elected Trump. And now we have this idiot at the helm.....
3
We need a good president now!
1
The problem is simply, Trump. He has no idea what he is doing. He is no intellectual or even street match for the Russians. They helped him in the election of which he is guilty of treason because they knew they were putting a moron in the White House---one they could easily outsmart.
9
Well everybody. You've been waiting for the President to shout "Look ---squirrel!!!" to deflect from the Russia investigation. Here comes your deflection, as well as possible war. Can Jared fix this ?
8
This imbecilic incompetent is going to sleepwalk into a war with Russia or China.
9
And don't forget the inexperienced Secretary of State.
2
No, no. He is colluding with Russia, remember? Trump is a Russian agent. Get your anti-Trump narrative straight. Didn't you get the last memo from the Democratic National Committee? Or, was I the one who missed the last memo?
4
I wonder what Tweety Bird is going to have to say about this. He spent years calling Obama a coward. Whatcha got, Don? I bet he folds like a lawn chair.
6
Vlad is making a typical thug statement to his poodle. How does "you're either with us or against us" translate to Russian?
1
When the US shot down that Syrian warplane was the moment Trump became President.
How many pundits are we going to hear flogging that line for the next few days?
How many pundits are we going to hear flogging that line for the next few days?
3
And if we were to call on NATO after the Russians attack us over Syria what do you think NATO might say to us? If I were France, Germany, or Britain I'd tell the US where to go. Since Trump took office we have not been a good ally.
3
If we were to call on NATO, they'd probably say what they usually say:
No, we can't we're scared. And on a mochachino break. But can we have more money?
No, we can't we're scared. And on a mochachino break. But can we have more money?
Trump was quick on the trigger after the gas attack. How's he going to respond now? This is all one big game of chicken and he surely doesn't want to chicken out but since he has no policy or hasn't enunciated one he had better be careful. It took the Turks a long time to make up with the Russians when they shot down a jet but Putin is Trump's best friend so we'll have to see what happens next. This is a rather disjointed letter so I hope the readers will forgive me.
Trump has "outsourced" control over the military to the Pentagon. This escalation could very well lead to an atomic catastrophe.
7
Immediately gather enough sons and nephews of members of Congress and of CEOs of military industrial complex corporations to form a first-strike infantry unit and parachute them in to Damascus tomorrow. Put some gold epaulets on Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly and LaPierre and have them lead the charge on horseback with swords unsheathed. That'll teach Assad and the Ruskies.
58
Dream the Impossible Dream. Sincerely, Man from LaMancha
2
Why would Syria bomb fighters that's battling its enemy, ISIS?
Hmmm!
Hmmm!
3
They moderate terrorists? The ones fighting the Syrian government? Yeah, I wonder why they'd bomb them...
3
because anyone who has attacked them is their enemy;:because Isis is not a big threat to their territorial control; because ME tribalism and religion.
This is how world wars get started.
22
Says everyone, every time something like this happens.
Oh, boy. Another republican war, another trillion or so, not to mention, um, death of lots of people and lots of destruction.
Oh, well, a trillion is just lunch money to Trump and he'll rebuild everything, yes, he will, and stick the big, mylar shiny Trump name all over everything.
Hey, Trump supporters, hello? Is this making America great again? Or broke again.
Oh, well, a trillion is just lunch money to Trump and he'll rebuild everything, yes, he will, and stick the big, mylar shiny Trump name all over everything.
Hey, Trump supporters, hello? Is this making America great again? Or broke again.
32
Trump will of course try to use war as a distraction from his obstruction of justice.
We love war!
Just look at the Middle East.
Think for yourself?
We love war!
Just look at the Middle East.
Think for yourself?
18
Obviously, this is just a ploy worked out between Trump and Putin to hide the fact that Trump is a sleeper agent raised in the USSR on a camp where he could learn to act like the perfect American capitalist and become president.
6
What about the birth announcement in the NYC newspapers? Part of the plot, right?
So much for the Russian collusion narrative. It's been nothing but a canard since Nov. 8, a MacGuffin, a manifestation of liberals' denial of reality.
8
Corporatist Democrats and liberals are not the same.
So this is how World War III starts.
12
Trump inadvertently starts a world war-oops! Could easily happen.
9
So Trump isn't really Putin's puppet? I'm sure Russia has figured out by now what an inconsistent idiot Trump is! No grand strategy or even any moral compass? Just whatever satisfies his immediate needs. A man-child, as some have called him! As for the wars themselves, since he's clueless and will depend on the military, it's scary. There's supposed to be civilian control. China has military exercises with Iran, now he challenges Russia, he's supporting the Saudi drive for hegemony in the region. As Bette Davis said 'Hang on. It's gonna be a bumpy ride!' To those who say Syria is not Russia's country, remember they were invited in by the LEGITIMATE government. Who invited the US in? It thinks it can target any country it wants. The world is getting real sick of that!
6
The US should EXIT this proxy war. Our 'allies' are terrorists or their sympathizers, not demonstrably better than Assad. We should never have attempted to intervene in Syria's destiny. It's a sovereign country; we do not have the right or the responsibility to help terrorists overthrow a dictatorial regime. And it's definitely not worth starting World War III to prove that our way of governing is the best.
10
Who are the US fighting this war for? Really. What do those countries mean for the US, why is that the USA have a problem with the Syrian regime and not the Saudi one, who benefits from the trillions squandered in transforming poor countries halfway around the world in piles of rubble and terrorists' nests? Certainly not the American people, this is clear.
It looks to me like more collusion between Trump and Putin. A Syrian plane down - Putin complains about US - makes it look like Trump and Putin are at odds - looks like Trump and Putin aren't co-conspirators after all - and all done without a direct Russia vs USA altercation. Takes the heat off Trump, and it's a win/win for the authoritarian and the would be authoritarian.
11
The more I see the more I imagine the Trump admin sounding like a misfiring car engine; bluster bluster bluster retreat bluster bluster bluster retreat. Don't let the backfires scare you. Trumps keystone mechanics can fix the problem.
4
It's impossible to have an opinion without a lot more facts. It seems we're protecting our allies in a fight against IS. Then we did the. Right thing short term...very short term . And it seems we're sinking deeper into the Middle East morass at the same time.
1
Pure diversionary theatre in the continuing collusion?
3
It is time for leaders like John Kerry, Colin Powell, and the Senate leadership (if there is any) to speak up and stop this insanity. Trump is a loose cannon, and loose cannons have been responsible for many of the large scale wars throughout history. The military cannot drive the bus, and they don't want to.
4
It is about regime change in syria. It has been our agenda for years.
3
Good. We need a world war between the 2 superpowers to thin the population and restore calm. The years after a horrific war are filled with rebuilding and optimism. Let the fighting begin.
3
The thought that we would send US soldiers into this conflict boggles the mind. Draft dodging donald has no compunction when he is putting other people's lives at risk.
7
Further proof that the Trump administration's foreign policy decisions are not being dictated by the Kremlin.
There are bound to be future instances similar to this, and with them, the Trump-Russia 'bromance' story will grow weaker and weaker.
There are bound to be future instances similar to this, and with them, the Trump-Russia 'bromance' story will grow weaker and weaker.
6
Has anyone stopped to ask; who was flying the "Syrian" plane that was shot down?
Like most large military forces around the world, the Russian generals look for an opportunity to tune up their forces by using small but very real conflicts. That way should a bigger a more important conflict arise, they will have battle hardened troops or at least troops with a modicum of live-fire experience.
They Russians are no different. They were melded into the conflict in the Ukraine, firing their weapons; their special services may have provided the deadly snipers that wreaked havoc in Kiev.
So if a Russian pilot was flying that jet under the Syrian flag then the loss of that one jet would really hit home... And would explain this new threat from Russia...
Like most large military forces around the world, the Russian generals look for an opportunity to tune up their forces by using small but very real conflicts. That way should a bigger a more important conflict arise, they will have battle hardened troops or at least troops with a modicum of live-fire experience.
They Russians are no different. They were melded into the conflict in the Ukraine, firing their weapons; their special services may have provided the deadly snipers that wreaked havoc in Kiev.
So if a Russian pilot was flying that jet under the Syrian flag then the loss of that one jet would really hit home... And would explain this new threat from Russia...
4
Actually, it was US who "meddled" in Ukraine by advocating violent overthrow of democratically elected government.
5
So now We're Closer to WWIII since the 60's.
Thank you Mr. Trump.
Thank you Mr. Trump.
5
An opinion from a Paris reader.
I hope that Russians will not risk the explosion. To summarize:
1. The USA has destroyed Saddam’s regime based on fake elements and against the UN consent.
2. This has led to the worst blood shed and quagmire since 2nd World War and
3. created in Syria and Iraq an open training field for the craziest terrorists ever imagined and
4. by the way caused an enormous flow of migrants in Europe who, as usual, bears the consequences of the American errors. (Americans generally are not in the least conscious of these consequences on the rest of the world)
5. …Errors that are continuing because, even if Assad is a terrible tyran, his regime is certainly better than the one which lead Syria if the « ground forces supported by the United States » took power.
… And now, let us pray that Trump’s administration (by the way was it decided by them?) does not try to worsen the situation only to prove they are able to start a war (Make America Great Again)!
I hope that Russians will not risk the explosion. To summarize:
1. The USA has destroyed Saddam’s regime based on fake elements and against the UN consent.
2. This has led to the worst blood shed and quagmire since 2nd World War and
3. created in Syria and Iraq an open training field for the craziest terrorists ever imagined and
4. by the way caused an enormous flow of migrants in Europe who, as usual, bears the consequences of the American errors. (Americans generally are not in the least conscious of these consequences on the rest of the world)
5. …Errors that are continuing because, even if Assad is a terrible tyran, his regime is certainly better than the one which lead Syria if the « ground forces supported by the United States » took power.
… And now, let us pray that Trump’s administration (by the way was it decided by them?) does not try to worsen the situation only to prove they are able to start a war (Make America Great Again)!
Time to take Trump out of the kiddie pool and down for a nap. His incompetence is a danger to us all. Neither he nor his businessman's cabinet have a clue. This government by clueless neophytes is frankly scary.
4
Can't help but think we are on a collision course with Russia while we have an incompetent captain at the helm. The GOP needs to seriously wake up and soon.
1
Who is more macho: Trump or Putin?
In the next few days/weeks, the American people -- and the world -- will find out the outcome of this epic ego confrontation. Who is going to blink first? the IQ smart former Soviet spy or the real estate con man from NYC?
In the next few days/weeks, the American people -- and the world -- will find out the outcome of this epic ego confrontation. Who is going to blink first? the IQ smart former Soviet spy or the real estate con man from NYC?
4
I now am wondering about the mental stability of much of the commentariat. Some think this is only a ploy to show that Trump and Putin aren't buds. Others think Putin must be regretting getting Trump elected. Yet others think Trump will (due to all his supposed character flaws) will start a war.
Are you people kidding me? Who allowed Russia a foothold in the ME? Hint, same guy who let them take over Crimea and the Ukraine. Same guy who did nothing except make a petulant phone call to the Russians telling them to cut it out when he found out it was likely that the Russians hacked the DNC. Same guys whose admin tried to do a 'reset" with Russia. Same guy who said he could be more flexible toward Russia after he won a 2nd term. Same -- yes the same -- guy whose admin sold 20% of our uranium to Russia. Same guy who told Mitch Romney Russia was nothing to worry about.
I'm beginning to think that the vast majority of the commentariat must be kids with no grasp of history, deranged relics of the early 60's still addled on all those drugs, or people confined to various institutions for their own good. As well as the good of society.
But - dream on folks. Who knows how this will end, but you can rest assured Trump will handle it better than Obama -- who is still trying to find that red line in the sand.
Are you people kidding me? Who allowed Russia a foothold in the ME? Hint, same guy who let them take over Crimea and the Ukraine. Same guy who did nothing except make a petulant phone call to the Russians telling them to cut it out when he found out it was likely that the Russians hacked the DNC. Same guys whose admin tried to do a 'reset" with Russia. Same guy who said he could be more flexible toward Russia after he won a 2nd term. Same -- yes the same -- guy whose admin sold 20% of our uranium to Russia. Same guy who told Mitch Romney Russia was nothing to worry about.
I'm beginning to think that the vast majority of the commentariat must be kids with no grasp of history, deranged relics of the early 60's still addled on all those drugs, or people confined to various institutions for their own good. As well as the good of society.
But - dream on folks. Who knows how this will end, but you can rest assured Trump will handle it better than Obama -- who is still trying to find that red line in the sand.
3
Bingo.. And for everyone complaining, just ask yourselves: What would Hillary do?
1
There is no strategic reason for us to involve ourselves in Syria any more. Any rational person would have given the Arab Spring a chance to bring a better life for Syrians. We did our best.
OK, so I have been a Trump doubter bigly since forever...but here's a gambit by a whacky Russky with a polished Noir etiquette and we have the greatest dealmaker of all time driving our ship. I say: let's all hush and see what the dude can really do: six months from now, we'll probably have a pretty clear picture of where the rubber meets the road
2
And not one word from Trump. Guess he's waiting for Bannon/Kushner to tell him what say. And also to tell him what the heck this is all about.
15
Yes. Right after they tell him how "GREAT!" he is...
3
Nope. He has to watch Hannity tonight so he can tweet the solution out at 3:15 am.
Such insight.
Maybe you should grow up, and stop with the inane, childish digs at the president and his Administration? Just a thought...
Maybe you should grow up, and stop with the inane, childish digs at the president and his Administration? Just a thought...
Well, let's see, US aircraft shot down over Syria, by Russians. Meanwhile, there is Incirlik Combined Defense Installation, is southeast Turkey. A relic of the Cold War, it has been manned with at least US and Turkish troops fro decades. Its purpose, well that si left up to one's imagination. Since teh Col War, it has been used for various US activities in the Middle East. Coupled with a base iN Qatar and even Saudi Arabia.
Putin cannot be so stupid to shoot down a US fighter, knowing that the US, and NATO, have the air power to head straight to the Kremlin itself, in a matter of minutes.
Of course, this was the world through the Obama Administration. Now, we have Russian puppet Trump in the White House. Will he start pulling our forces out of Turkey, and Europe to placate Putin? Or, will he start a war of words with his puppet master?
Whatever the case, Russia has escalated a war of words, and Trump may be stupid enough t o oblige. Or, worse yet, weaken the eastern flank of NATO and weaken support for our Troops remaining in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A dangerous world just got m ore dangerous.
Putin cannot be so stupid to shoot down a US fighter, knowing that the US, and NATO, have the air power to head straight to the Kremlin itself, in a matter of minutes.
Of course, this was the world through the Obama Administration. Now, we have Russian puppet Trump in the White House. Will he start pulling our forces out of Turkey, and Europe to placate Putin? Or, will he start a war of words with his puppet master?
Whatever the case, Russia has escalated a war of words, and Trump may be stupid enough t o oblige. Or, worse yet, weaken the eastern flank of NATO and weaken support for our Troops remaining in Iraq and Afghanistan.
A dangerous world just got m ore dangerous.
9
The threat rings hollow, because Putin hasn't expressed himself yet - he lets subordinates to vent their perceived anger. Russia may be capitalising on the downing of a Syrian fighter jet to whip up resentment against the US ahead of the G20 summit in two weeks in Hamburg. Putin and Trump - if he attends - will meet for the first time.
Frants Klintsevich, the deputy chairman of the Russian Senate’s defense committee" says Russia is "being provoked most of all" and the the US "under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.” In Oliver Stone's new interview-film about Putin, the Russian strongman had constantly called the US "Russia's partner," - to ingratiate himself with Trump and his supporters, rendering Russian interference in last year's election benign. Stone does believe that Putin spoke the truth and that the allegation were "all smoke and no fire."
Frants Klintsevich, the deputy chairman of the Russian Senate’s defense committee" says Russia is "being provoked most of all" and the the US "under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.” In Oliver Stone's new interview-film about Putin, the Russian strongman had constantly called the US "Russia's partner," - to ingratiate himself with Trump and his supporters, rendering Russian interference in last year's election benign. Stone does believe that Putin spoke the truth and that the allegation were "all smoke and no fire."
4
So, a U.S. jet shoots down a Syrian jet attacking our forces on the ground and just who responds with a threat to escalate the war? Russia. But, it was not their jet and it is not their country. This is the Alice-in-Wonderland world that Donald Trump stumbled into with his open embrace of Saudi Arabia, his $100 million arms sale to them, his alignment with them against Qatar where we have a major military base, but no Trump properties, and also against Iran. And, all he seems worried about is a "Witch Hunt"! Sorry Donald, but there is a real world out there and "It's complicated" and very dangerous.
19
Which nation was invited into Syria by its government? Hint: not Russia.
1
Russia is in Syria according to international law, which allows a sovereign nation to invite allies to support it against an aggressor. The US is in Syria in violation of international law and the UN Charter and is the aggressor. The US is carving out territory by force from Syria to create a puppet regime. The US keeps escalating this disastrous war and some in the military industrial complex are seeking a wider war in the Middle East and beyond, in fact a war with Russia. Escalation and more escalation if we don't stop it.
4
"Syrian government invites Russia to send in ground troops to protect Assad regime from ISIS"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/russia-launches-attacks-syria-day-...
I don't suppose facts will change many minds, but here they are.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/russia-launches-attacks-syria-day-...
I don't suppose facts will change many minds, but here they are.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Putin must be very disappointed that his investment in Trump is turning out poorly.
6
It is likely that Trump ordered the downing of the Syrian warplane, in a feeble attempt to deflect the public's attention from the FBI investigation. He knows that Mr. Mueller's investigation will no doubt lead to recommendations of charges against members of his administration, if not himself personally.
Trump believes, rightly or wrongly, that Americans will put aside any concerns they have about his administration and rally around him, should he plunge this nation into an unwinnable war with the world's only other military super power -- a war that could very well see bloodshed on our own soil, and a war in which the U.S. would be without allies.
Even in this scenario, Trump's base would support him at all costs. Their hatred of Americans unlike themselves is all-consuming. They would rather see this nation destroyed than see their dear leader removed from office.
Such speculation would have been unfathomable during any prior administration. Now it is a very real possibility. There is literally no one standing in the way of this deranged man. Trump is now limited only by his imagination and the laws of physics.
We may hope all we want that such a scenario never happens, but at this point, we'd all do well to have a back-up plan.
Trump believes, rightly or wrongly, that Americans will put aside any concerns they have about his administration and rally around him, should he plunge this nation into an unwinnable war with the world's only other military super power -- a war that could very well see bloodshed on our own soil, and a war in which the U.S. would be without allies.
Even in this scenario, Trump's base would support him at all costs. Their hatred of Americans unlike themselves is all-consuming. They would rather see this nation destroyed than see their dear leader removed from office.
Such speculation would have been unfathomable during any prior administration. Now it is a very real possibility. There is literally no one standing in the way of this deranged man. Trump is now limited only by his imagination and the laws of physics.
We may hope all we want that such a scenario never happens, but at this point, we'd all do well to have a back-up plan.
8
I wouldn't give Trump credit for any kind of strategic planning on any level whatsoever. It is more likely that he didn't know anything about this until he saw it on Fox and that the U.S. military prefers it that way.
2
In the long run nothing matters.
Mr. Parkes, I do hope you're right.
1
August 1914. Human are fallible but 103 years ago at least there were no hydrogen bombs or ICBMs. Have we learned nothing from the slaughter of the 20th century? Apparently the answer is no.
5
Humans are a mistake of evolution and in the end we will " self- extinct". This will be good for the planet.
1
No one really wants to admit this because Assad is such an evil man, but the only really solution to stop the violence in Syria is an Assad victory. His faction is the strongest in Syria, he's got the backing of Iran and Russia, and he's ruthless enough the impose the kind of Carthaginian peace that is the only practical way to quickly end the Syrian civil war. The U.S. should stop its impotent moralizing, get out of the way, and let Assad do what needs to be done. Otherwise, the killing in Syria will go on for generations.
13
Let Iran win? Not to mention Russia? That's not going to lead to peace.
Why should anyone worry about this? The United States has the mature, thoughtful, complex and strategic genius of Donald Trump to guide it through sensitive situations just like this. What could possibly go wrong?
8
Interesting that both countries signed an agreement to cooperate yet we are spending resources and lives fighting against different causes, in the same place... That would be like boxers saying "Oh no we aren't fighting against each other, we're just punching each other in the face."
Our golf course salesman has the Mideast floor strewn with broken crockery, and thinks he can bluff his way to dealing with the international perils that he is wandering around among. Only a foolish innocent would tempt fate by shooting down a Syrian plane and thinking he can bluff his way to scaring the international array of hardened military establishments that are watching his amateur bravado and arranging to awaken him from his exaggerated dreams of personal rule. If we don't do something to send Mr. Trump out of the Oval Office and back to his Tower without delay, we may easily find ourselves hoisted on the Trump nuclear petard with Trump playing General Strangelove.
Can anyone imagine what the situation would be at this moment had Russia shot down an American plane?! Imagine what response the Trump administration would feel obliged to take to demonstrate its egotistical invincibility? And really, who gave the order to shoot?
7
This is all a show - to pretend that Trump and Russia were/are not in cahoots. Oh what a tangled web we weave - innocents will suffer for this charade.
4
I agree with many of the comments. This is yet another con from Trump, directed at his supporters to rally for him: See, he hates the Russians. He's defending the United States.
Right.
#MakeAmericaThinkAgain
Read. Pay attention.
And thank you, tireless journalists of the NYTimes and WAPO.
Right.
#MakeAmericaThinkAgain
Read. Pay attention.
And thank you, tireless journalists of the NYTimes and WAPO.
11
Well, so much for all the tough talk and hot air from Democrats in congress (and many, many commentators here) about the need to "confront" -apparently militarily if necessary - Russia over their US election shenanigans, Ukraine, the need for the US to protect Europe from big, bad Vlad, and other assorted grievances. The confrontation is now here. Where are all those gassy liberal hardliners today? In hiding? What a joke.
7
No! My inadvertent click was not "like". Good God!
Puts Trump in a delicate position seeing all that they have on him. If he backs down, we know why. If he doesn't, Putin will bring the curtain down on him. Naturally, he's not talking to us about this, but about who to watch on Fox News.
2
America was great during the Cold War.
Trump wants to make America great again.
Ergo, he restarts the Cold War.
Nice!
Trump wants to make America great again.
Ergo, he restarts the Cold War.
Nice!
2
Interesting theory, except that the Cold War never ended.
3
A clear display of Russia taking advantage of the power vacuum created by Trump's incompetence and lack of leadership.
This would have never happened under Obama, W Bush, Clinton, H Bush etc...
This would have never happened under Obama, W Bush, Clinton, H Bush etc...
3
It was not intentional, and Putin knows it. He's just huffing an puffing macho style.
It's unfortunate that Putin still thinks Obama is in the White House. He ain't, and Trump doesn't really care about cooperating with Russia anymore. The Democrats and McCainers have made that impossible anyway.
Nobody here is scared of Putin. Or the Chinese. Our military, even without the muscular new investment from Trump, can outlast either of them. But truth is, Putin's latest loudmouthery is just more leftover courage that Obama gave him and all of America's adversaries.
History will show that we put an enemy of the country in the White House for 8 years solely because his skin color was black. Very, very unfortunate.
It's unfortunate that Putin still thinks Obama is in the White House. He ain't, and Trump doesn't really care about cooperating with Russia anymore. The Democrats and McCainers have made that impossible anyway.
Nobody here is scared of Putin. Or the Chinese. Our military, even without the muscular new investment from Trump, can outlast either of them. But truth is, Putin's latest loudmouthery is just more leftover courage that Obama gave him and all of America's adversaries.
History will show that we put an enemy of the country in the White House for 8 years solely because his skin color was black. Very, very unfortunate.
NYT, what is a 'Warplane'? Are they only flown by countries we refer to as 'regimes'. I think we just sold a lot 'military' planes to Saudi Arabia and Qatar and of course they are not regimes.
3
So happy our jingoist approach to international crises is helping 'Make America Great Again!'
3
The Presidential Apprentice: The Winds Of War.
3
Until further notice this could easily be demagogue Trumpolini attempting to manipulate the media -- trying to distract us from his corrupt "friendly" relations with Putin and the Russian oligarchs.
It's very likely posturing and smoke screens so Trump's companies can execute more financial end-runs -- Mattis and McMaster will do the blocking in defense of the Con-Man-in-Chief.
So, once you lose complete trust of the people you are supposed to serve, you can never believe anything they feed you. Surprise foriegn policy and obscure the real Truth. The con-man warned us, did he not.
It's very likely posturing and smoke screens so Trump's companies can execute more financial end-runs -- Mattis and McMaster will do the blocking in defense of the Con-Man-in-Chief.
So, once you lose complete trust of the people you are supposed to serve, you can never believe anything they feed you. Surprise foriegn policy and obscure the real Truth. The con-man warned us, did he not.
2
Is Syria our enemy? Why shoot Syrian airplanes which fly over their own country?
4
No. Syria is not a U.S. enemy per se --- but you'd probably need to read the news in order to answer your own question.
2
Mrs. Klintsevich's mother must be so proud of her little Frants!
It breaks my heart to see these poor Russians pushed around by those mean American planes.
How are those little Russians going to kill tens of thousands of innocent Syrian women and children, if the Syrian planes cannot bomb their own people at will?
It breaks my heart to see these poor Russians pushed around by those mean American planes.
How are those little Russians going to kill tens of thousands of innocent Syrian women and children, if the Syrian planes cannot bomb their own people at will?
What are the Russians so mad about, that just got them one more fight plane sale to Syria.
1
For the record, there is not a single mention of this story on the Fox News website.
7
Maybe the Syria Aircraft was flown by a Russian pilot.
If there is a "lock on" there might or should be a very strong reaction. Russia apparently is not in control of our president if they were that plane would still exist.
4
This proves nothing, except, perhaps, that you are trying desperately trying to convince us that there is/was no collusion-good luck with that
Nice try Mr Spock - the President is too busy on his twitter account to engage this issue directly as he should have been since he was elected which is why this has occured. He is derelict in his duty of Commander in chief and most likely will stay that way until, like a petulant child he gets his way which is to continue to act like a spoiled child - this is serious stuff!! We need a real leader not a tweeter!
3
This is all just a coordinated charade to make people think just that - to crate a faux conflict with Russia as the investigation continues.
1
"Weeks after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia ordered his country’s military forces to Syria in September 2015 at the request of the Syrian government..."
Yo, Gordon, FTFY
Yo, Gordon, FTFY
2
"It is Russia that is being provoked most of all" What a bunch of whiners! If Klintsevich can't tell the difference between a blunt act of aggression and taking out some schmuck dropping bombs on our partners then he needs to resign. You guys could care less about Assad anyway, all you need is your military bases. Trump dangerous? Why that's terrible, just terrible! He's quite unstable you know, doesn't get enough sleep and routinely spouts deranged proclamations-he could go off the deep end at a moment's notice and start sending cruise missiles everywhere! So you chumps should ease up on your pathetic russian dog-and-pony show or he could wake up and sink your only aircraft carrier- no more tooling around in your broke down model-A in a world of Bugattis. You wanted him. You got him.
6
"dropping bombs on our partners"--you mean the US has any right to be fighting in Syria?
Also the Syria plane was bombing ISIS forces, Gordon has been less than accurate in his characterization.
Also the Syria plane was bombing ISIS forces, Gordon has been less than accurate in his characterization.
2
Trump is going to get us into a lot of trouble. Anybody miss Obama yet?
39
Now we get to see what counts more for Trump and the GOP - lifetime Trump trademark protections in Russia and being known as Guardians Of Putin....or America First......
Please place your bets.
Please place your bets.
9
It is not even close, America first, under your idea the plane would still exist. You have any money to lose???
3
Give it up Spock - Trump is a disaster to the planet
3
Get of the golf course trump and start paying attention.
14
To what??? The military is paying attention, and that is all that is needed.
Have you ever heard the term Commander in Chief? Think Captain Kirk not Captain Kangaroo
1
Apparently, you and Trump are in agreement. Ever heard the expression that to a man with a hammer every problem appears to be a nail? That is why we do not allow the generals to be in control of foreign policy.
"Russia Warns U.S. After Downing of Syrian Warplane"
So this is how WWIII begins ...
So this is how WWIII begins ...
12
Nothing here, folks. Just a little disagreement between bromantic partners in crime.
12
Remember this, Team 2 (McCain, Ryan, McConnell, Pence and the rest of the company) are worse than Donald.
Just as long as it's not nuclear (or as George W. Bush would say, "NuClar") it's OK to have a shootin' war with the Ruskies. I'm safe.
Just as long as it's not nuclear (or as George W. Bush would say, "NuClar") it's OK to have a shootin' war with the Ruskies. I'm safe.
4
Donny speak with your boyfriend before this escalates into a war. Obama was wise not to intervene militarily.
17
Yes don't do stupid things was a great strategy. Especially when you are so stupid that anything you might do would be stupid.
5
This is a manufactured crises by Russia to test the mettle of our President. Fortunately, no one has anything to worry about once our President turns his attention to the matter.
4
If they don't cover it on Fox News, Drumpf may never know about it.
1
What attention? The one that can be measured in nanoseconds?
1
Good luck with that - Trump will send out a tweet to deal with it - good luck Scotty
1
Who will Trump blame now? My money is on "the generals".
10
Flynn.
1
Samuel Seattle: nope, Obama or Hillary. Or the Dems.
2
It's so rich that the foreign minister of the country that meddled in our elections lectures us about respecting the sovereignty of Syria!
14
Russia/Putin is seriously mistaken if they think they can go head to head with the U.S in Ariel combat. I hope thats not what they're thinking.
There's an arsenal of weapons they (and we) haven't even seen in combat yet. Might be time to test the hardware.
There's an arsenal of weapons they (and we) haven't even seen in combat yet. Might be time to test the hardware.
6
Seems legit. First Russia meddles in our election, and puts Putin's puppet in as president. Next they threaten to start shooting down US planes because the US shot down a Syrian plane that was bombing US allies.
I think they want a war before their puppet is exposed and out of power.
I think they want a war before their puppet is exposed and out of power.
10
Well if the president was Putin's puppet, why would we shoot down anything. You can't have it both ways and the objective evidence indicates nobody is a puppet, that is just your alternative idiotic reality.
5
No. Not "alternative idiotic reality".
Brilliant stategy. Because while all eyes are on this mess, the other mess can be taken off the front burner for a minute.
Brilliant stategy. Because while all eyes are on this mess, the other mess can be taken off the front burner for a minute.
3
Not really. Meddling in our national elections would be considered an act of war. Regan and Bush would have seen it that way. Trump though doesn't, so the Russians are stepping up their game. Either we fight back or we roll over.
This a good example of how the Pentagon's deep state is at war without the authorization of the humility dumbly congress
1
Perhaps we can "pull a Russian" and say we are not there. Who know how that plane fell out of the sky. Much as Russia has done en East Ukraine.
8
This is how big wars start.
7
So, everyone feeling pretty good about that guy in the White House?
11
While pursuing Osama bin Laden and his immediate conspirators was a legitimate police action, that could have been accomplished quickly had G.W. Bush not switched blame onto Saddam Hussein.
That begs this question: had the United States never stationed even one soldier in the mid-East during the past forty years, what would be the detrimental effect to the United States? And prove that the cost/benefit ratio made it worthwhile.
Both Republican and Democrat politicians are culpable and should be obliged to validate their war mongering. I have yet to hear any alibis that survive critical analysis.
That begs this question: had the United States never stationed even one soldier in the mid-East during the past forty years, what would be the detrimental effect to the United States? And prove that the cost/benefit ratio made it worthwhile.
Both Republican and Democrat politicians are culpable and should be obliged to validate their war mongering. I have yet to hear any alibis that survive critical analysis.
2
Why not use our economic power & technology know how to influence Syria instead of war plane? We have plenty of things such as medical advances that attract Syria students to US. I personally met quite a few in Houston several years back. China, on the other hand, quietly built a normal diplomatic relationship with Panama in our backyard so to speak. And we could nothing to stop them. If we treat Syria government with respect and dignity, I don't think Russia can stop our advance in Syria. Don't support or bet on rebels that was not legitimately elected, but a bunch of dissatisfied tribal leaders who tried to grab power and seek independence.
Because dictators and ISIS don't care about such, they only respect force.
1
We're the "source of danger." Vladimir Putin's expansive dreams are what's in danger. Despite Trump's thievery and complicity, the U.S. and our NATO allies, along with the EU (Macron publicly scolding Putin) and the U.S. Senate (voted for more Russia sanctions and removing a Trumpian power grab to weaken them), are starting to stand up to Putin's bravado (Russian aircraft buzzing our military vessels) to distract a restless and impoverished people who are questioning Putin's and Mendez's failed economic system of Oligarchs of corruption. The people of Moninegro are cheering.
3
Last I checked, according to international law, the Syrian government led by Assad is the only legal government of Syria, and Russia is inside Syria legally, at the government's invitation, while, the United States is not.
American newspapers need to start citing international law, even when international law doesn't support the goals of the U.S. government, Trump, the neocons, or whoever it is that desperately wants a war in Syria.
American newspapers need to start citing international law, even when international law doesn't support the goals of the U.S. government, Trump, the neocons, or whoever it is that desperately wants a war in Syria.
11
Here's an idea: stop U.S. (corporate state) imperial invasion in Syria (and other Middle Eastern countries). It seems to me that once that happens, our security may improve.
5
Where's Jared? We need him to step in now and resolve this matter. As Trump said about Jared,"If you can't produce peace in the Mideast, nobody can."
10
Help us Jared. You are our only hope.
Distraction to the left, distraction to the right. Trump colluded with Putin to get elected and he is trying to divert attention from the investigation. Too bad he is using US lives as cover.
5
BINGO!!...by George, you've got it!
1
Here's the crisis where we need a "real" president and Russia knows the US is at a distinct disadvantage.
1
I can think of another time in US-Russian (well, USSR) history where the principal's were not speaking to each other over a Russian client country... October 1962, to be exact.
The US had Kennedy then. Now we have Trump. If that doesn't scare the daylights out of you, I don't know what will.
Let's hope Putin doesn't try to test us further, like Nikita did.
I was in the fifth grade back in 1962. I remember the fear a fifth-grader experienced then, how each night when I went to bed I wondered if I would see sunrise the next morning.
I hope it doesn't come to that over Syria.
The US had Kennedy then. Now we have Trump. If that doesn't scare the daylights out of you, I don't know what will.
Let's hope Putin doesn't try to test us further, like Nikita did.
I was in the fifth grade back in 1962. I remember the fear a fifth-grader experienced then, how each night when I went to bed I wondered if I would see sunrise the next morning.
I hope it doesn't come to that over Syria.
2
"Russia on Monday condemned the American military’s downing of a Syrian warplane, suspending the use of a military hotline that Washington and Moscow have used to avoid collisions in Syrian airspace and threatening to target aircraft flown by the United States and its allies over Syria."
Threatening to target US aircraft is ominous for world peace. Suspending the hotline seems trivial given Trumps ability to tweet his deepest thoughts.
Threatening to target US aircraft is ominous for world peace. Suspending the hotline seems trivial given Trumps ability to tweet his deepest thoughts.
Putin will never back down to Trump as Khrushchev did to Kennedy. He knows he would give up his domestic political power if he did. He wants Turkey and will only get it by getting Syria first. It's Russian "Manifest Destiny." Might a tyrant have more success governing the Middle East than democratic countries would? It is just a matter of weeks before the Russians exhaust NATO'S resources by invading Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. Occupying Turkey will be like a walk in the park after the collapse of Syria. The Americans have nothing culturally in common with that part of the world and will always be seen as aliens, while the Russians are feared and therefore respected. Trump is a Monday Morning Quarterback, at best. He won't beat Putin with his Twitterings.
1
Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but since when is America involved in the civil war in Syria?
Since at least 2006.
1
I hope this is not another 'wagging the dog' event designed to divert attention from Trump's lightning-speed spiral into what (I hope) is the inevitable crash landing of his disastrous presidency. May he press the eject button soon!
16
More bad news. I'm old enough to remember Truman in the White House, but I cannot recall a time with as much instability and chaos as today. Our weak and erratic leadership seems to stir up muscle-flexing all over the world. Domestically, divisiveness and partisanship is rampant, with no calls for unity from the White House. We are only five months into this presidency, and the thought of three and a half years more is almost unbearable.
49
The US deserves what it gets. We dragged our feet on taking out ISIS, hoping they would take out Assad. Now we have lost everything to Iran and Russia, and it would take Armageddon to get it back, whatever is left of it all.
2
Your first sentence may be correct. But go back a little further in time. Reagan funded the afghan rebels which let to al qaeda. Bush destroyed Iraq which led to ISIS. Are you really trying to blame all this on dragging our feet. Please.
2
Our representatives must now find their backbones and insist the president obey the law and abide by the War Powers Act.
“… the United States carried out the cruise missile attack in April at a Syrian airfield that was used to mount a nerve-gas attack …”
Careful NYT. No evidence has ever been provided that the nerve gas attach was carried out by Syrian forces. To the contrary, it seemed far more likely to have been yet another ‘rebel’ chemical attack. What we have done to Syria is a disgrace. We have turned the whole Middle East into a smoldering train wreck. All explained back in 2007 by Gen. Wesley Clark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8FhZnFZ6TY
“… the United States carried out the cruise missile attack in April at a Syrian airfield that was used to mount a nerve-gas attack …”
Careful NYT. No evidence has ever been provided that the nerve gas attach was carried out by Syrian forces. To the contrary, it seemed far more likely to have been yet another ‘rebel’ chemical attack. What we have done to Syria is a disgrace. We have turned the whole Middle East into a smoldering train wreck. All explained back in 2007 by Gen. Wesley Clark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8FhZnFZ6TY
14
This is worrisome -- no question.
BUT...
It probably would have been worse if HRC had been elected. She vowed to establish a no-fly zone over Syria. Either she'd have flip-flopped on that vow, or not. If she stuck with the vow and enforced it, Russia almost certainly would have continued flying in Syrian skies US planes would have been shooting them down, and we would have been retaliating by shooting down Russian planes.
Result?
Probably a full-blown US/Russia war, over Syria -- a country that has no "serious" oil and that most Americans couldn't even point to on a map.
We might end up with a US/Russia war anyway, of course. But that would have been far more likely with Hillary Clinton, who, it seems, never met a Middle East war she didn't like -- or that she didn't think the US should jump into with both feet. She voted for the Iraq war, she pressed Obama to be more belligerent in Syria, and she vowed to become more belligerent in Syria.
Maybe more belligerence is and was the right course of action for the US. Many Americans think just that, and maybe they're right. But whether they're right or wrong, let's stop thinking of Hillary Clinton as the "peace candidate." She's far from it, and always has been. Ask yourself: Has Hillary Clinton ever taken any action to avoid involving the US in a Middle East war -- even once?
Bottom line: I'm worried that recent actions make a US/Russia war more likely, but that risk would have been even higher if HRC had been elected.
BUT...
It probably would have been worse if HRC had been elected. She vowed to establish a no-fly zone over Syria. Either she'd have flip-flopped on that vow, or not. If she stuck with the vow and enforced it, Russia almost certainly would have continued flying in Syrian skies US planes would have been shooting them down, and we would have been retaliating by shooting down Russian planes.
Result?
Probably a full-blown US/Russia war, over Syria -- a country that has no "serious" oil and that most Americans couldn't even point to on a map.
We might end up with a US/Russia war anyway, of course. But that would have been far more likely with Hillary Clinton, who, it seems, never met a Middle East war she didn't like -- or that she didn't think the US should jump into with both feet. She voted for the Iraq war, she pressed Obama to be more belligerent in Syria, and she vowed to become more belligerent in Syria.
Maybe more belligerence is and was the right course of action for the US. Many Americans think just that, and maybe they're right. But whether they're right or wrong, let's stop thinking of Hillary Clinton as the "peace candidate." She's far from it, and always has been. Ask yourself: Has Hillary Clinton ever taken any action to avoid involving the US in a Middle East war -- even once?
Bottom line: I'm worried that recent actions make a US/Russia war more likely, but that risk would have been even higher if HRC had been elected.
3
Not so sure about that:
"The United States is supplying money and weapons to rebel groups to help them take down the legitimate government of Syria. (Israel would really really like it if we would.)"
I don't doubt that Israel dislikes Assad. But when the question becomes "Compared to what?", that's far less clear. To be sure, there have been several "incidents" in the Golan Heights over the past several decades, and Syria often has been accused, probably justifiably, of assisting Hezbollah in its attacks on Israel from Lebanon. Despite all this, though, Syria has been fairly quiescent toward Israel. It's hard to imagine that Israel thinks that is likely to continue if Assad is replaced by whomever would emerge from the smoke of the Syrian civil war.
Israel must know it would be just a matter of time before "moderate" rebels backed by the US were shoved aside by ISIS. Would that make Israel more safe, less safe, or about the same.
"The United States is supplying money and weapons to rebel groups to help them take down the legitimate government of Syria. (Israel would really really like it if we would.)"
I don't doubt that Israel dislikes Assad. But when the question becomes "Compared to what?", that's far less clear. To be sure, there have been several "incidents" in the Golan Heights over the past several decades, and Syria often has been accused, probably justifiably, of assisting Hezbollah in its attacks on Israel from Lebanon. Despite all this, though, Syria has been fairly quiescent toward Israel. It's hard to imagine that Israel thinks that is likely to continue if Assad is replaced by whomever would emerge from the smoke of the Syrian civil war.
Israel must know it would be just a matter of time before "moderate" rebels backed by the US were shoved aside by ISIS. Would that make Israel more safe, less safe, or about the same.
4
Does Trump have any clear understanding of what kind of fire he's playing with?
10
This is a rhetorical question, right??
4
Consider the following (a little paranoid) idea: if you were Putin and wanted to help your pal in the White House, wouldn't a little saber rattling go a long way? Wouldn't this threat to down American planes play right into Trump's hands?
9
This has been one of our greatest concerns since Trump was elected. A complex conflict, escalating into a proxy war, with no one able to understand what's going on and lead from the Oval Office.
9
Now, remember readers, if you are in D.C. and you meet a Russian diplomat but forget their name, any Democratic Senator can guess which one you met from a few clues. These guys are THAT close.
Putin never had any love for President Trump - certainly not like the bonds he had to Hillary - but now he feels the need to strut his inner North Korean. It's kind of like John Kerry without six inches of height and better hair.
By the way, have you noticed lately how that the environmentalists are all outside exercising so much the our eight-cylinder engines are really running better now?
Putin never had any love for President Trump - certainly not like the bonds he had to Hillary - but now he feels the need to strut his inner North Korean. It's kind of like John Kerry without six inches of height and better hair.
By the way, have you noticed lately how that the environmentalists are all outside exercising so much the our eight-cylinder engines are really running better now?
2
I would like to get an explanation from our Dear Leader under which International Law the Syrian government plane was shut down over the Syrian airspace.
6
Congrats to the NYT and the pentagon. Looks like we are going to have that war with Russia you have been pushing and preparing for. Hip hip hooray nukes away!
7
So what's Putin's "pocket President" going to do if Russian shoots down an US aircraft? Blame the democrats?
8
Of course. He'll claim Hillary planned it and Barack Husein engineered it from Nairobi, then thousands of our mid-western morons will gather in abandoned malls shouting "Trump Trump."
2
Re: Mr. Klintsevich's remark: “It seems that the United States under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.”
Buyer's remorse, comrade?
Buyer's remorse, comrade?
1
"comrade"?
Learn the difference between Soviet and Russian, and avoid neo-McCarthyism when attack Trump, unless the point is to help him.
Learn the difference between Soviet and Russian, and avoid neo-McCarthyism when attack Trump, unless the point is to help him.
Sweet... we are now one plane away from a hot war with the Russians...
4
Oh boy now a shooting war with the Russians! Let's see more BRAVADO Trump!
USMA 67!
USMA 67!
4
Where's Jared?
12
Off skiing somewhere.
3
White House Jared or Subway Jared? They are both equally qualified to lead us.
Oh, Trump will solve it on day one. Knows more than the generals. He has a plan.
Don't worry. Go deport somebody and relax. Tweet something and think about something besides Russia.
Who knew where Russia even was? Now it's like in your face every day. But Trump has a plan. Just you wait. And wait. And wait.
Don't worry. Go deport somebody and relax. Tweet something and think about something besides Russia.
Who knew where Russia even was? Now it's like in your face every day. But Trump has a plan. Just you wait. And wait. And wait.
4
Drop them. They have no right to be there.
1
Syria invited Russia to fight the terrorists. The United States invaded illegally.
1
Dear Donald: THIS is NOT a TV show. Seek professional advice, ASAP.
From: The Real World.
From: The Real World.
23
Tough guy Chris Christie said he would shoot down Russian planes over Syria. Tit for tat here, maybe?
Lord Dampnut (DT's anagram) said he'd have Syria policy all fixed by now.
President Obama's handling of this mess, descended from Bush II's administration, was as good as it's gonna get.
(And BTW, John McCain's approach would have us watching "moments of silence" for today's dead American soldiers on the evening news, like we did in W's Iraq fiasco.)
Lord Dampnut (DT's anagram) said he'd have Syria policy all fixed by now.
President Obama's handling of this mess, descended from Bush II's administration, was as good as it's gonna get.
(And BTW, John McCain's approach would have us watching "moments of silence" for today's dead American soldiers on the evening news, like we did in W's Iraq fiasco.)
6
Dear Members of Congress:
In this moment before we stumble into in a shooting war with the Russians, please remove Donald J. Trump from the Presidency. He's plainly out of his depth and a danger to the Republic.
Thank you,
Jim
In this moment before we stumble into in a shooting war with the Russians, please remove Donald J. Trump from the Presidency. He's plainly out of his depth and a danger to the Republic.
Thank you,
Jim
15
And now they also want to build a base in Cuba. Hmmm...
4
Donald FANS: Is this winning????? Could thing it doesn't involve E-mails.
2
With Trump in charge what could go wrong?
5
Well that didn't take long; an unqualified commander in chief has us on the brink of a shooting war with Russia after being on the job a mere 5 months. But not to worry, the military is calling the shots now (ref. Vietnam war 1955 to 1975).
4
Under international law the US has no right to wage war in Syria. There is no declared war and going to another country and bombing it is illegal. American military personnel and equipment in Syria could be targeted at any time.
We have no idea what we are doing in the Middle East, it is nothing but a catastrophe for the locals and our politicians don't have to hide because our voters are so stupid that you can tell them anything, attach a flag to it and lower social expenditures.
We have no idea what we are doing in the Middle East, it is nothing but a catastrophe for the locals and our politicians don't have to hide because our voters are so stupid that you can tell them anything, attach a flag to it and lower social expenditures.
14
Who needs a hotline anyway when they're got Jared's back door?
4
Exactly what proportion of the country does the dictator Assad have to control for him to have "Sovereign" rights? If he controls 15% of the landmass and 15% of the population, is he a "Sovereign"? How about 5%? If he is totally propped up by Russia and Iran, does this make him more legitimate as the representative of a Sovereign Syria? If his father or grandfather pulled a coup, does this lead to the legitimacy of his leadership. Nobody wants to take any Syrian land, they just want to remove the butcher dictator whose own people hate him, the butcher that gasses and barrel bombs his own people.....kind of reminds me of Stalin....hey Putin, do you remember how Stalin weakened Mother Russia through mass executions of anybody with initiative and bravery to oppose him?
1
Exactly What is the proportion of the U S involvement in International terrorism? : 100%
Perhaps we should follow the sage advice of T.E. Lawrence, (of Arabia), and allow these Arab tribes to sort out their own different without Western intervention or interference, resolving only to have good relations with whomever comes out on top.
That certainly saves some of our kids' lives.
That certainly saves some of our kids' lives.
7
Which may mean that those who have the most nerve gas win! Dude's a monster. For the sake of his countrymen he needs to go. A little oxyacetophenone in his cereal would give him that 10,000 mile stare and his people a needed respite from the clusterbombs..
1
Where is Jared when we need him?
1
He's on his way to the Middle East to advance Israeli-Palestinian relations. Then he's going to circle back to the U.S. to solve the opioid crisis. Wait, should we have him go to Russia first to discuss this latest predicament with the U.S. downing a Syrian jet? I'm concerned for the dear boy that he may have too much on his plate. Poor, poor Jared. (Oy.)
The NYT falls for this every time. It is faux conflict, probably orchestrated by Putin to divert attention from Trump's various investigations.
2
So, is this a "Lay off the meddling investigations, or else" kind of threat?
1
First at al, I am wondering if the Syrian Warplane were really piloted by an Syrian pilot. I have my suspects that it was piloted by an Russian pilot instead because of the strong Putin's answer. He took it so personally, being sincere.
Second, it seems Trump is not taking a direct rote in Syria and he is delegating powers to his aids because he would try to get involved with the Russians in the conflict.
Last. The position of America is not clear at all, and it is violating all international laws. Like invading a country without declaring a war and also targeting and destroying military units. Any unilateral use of force by United States in Syria is against the right of sovereign and governance form he native country. And it could put on international court. Syria has not done that so far for many reasons but it does not imply it will use as propaganda against USA.
Second, it seems Trump is not taking a direct rote in Syria and he is delegating powers to his aids because he would try to get involved with the Russians in the conflict.
Last. The position of America is not clear at all, and it is violating all international laws. Like invading a country without declaring a war and also targeting and destroying military units. Any unilateral use of force by United States in Syria is against the right of sovereign and governance form he native country. And it could put on international court. Syria has not done that so far for many reasons but it does not imply it will use as propaganda against USA.
6
The conceal-the-pilot game was a huge factor in the air war over North Korea in the early 1950's. Chinese- and Russian-piloted MiG 15's were only found way up close to the Yalu River or over large concentrations of communist troops. Since the MiG 15 was every bit the equal of the American fighters, that had to just frustrate the foreign-partner pilots to no end.
Were there a modern-day conflict, the stainless steel Russian aircraft might give the western (titanium) fighters a real fight until their gas started running low in maybe 15 minutes.
Were there a modern-day conflict, the stainless steel Russian aircraft might give the western (titanium) fighters a real fight until their gas started running low in maybe 15 minutes.
1
Something tells me you're right about that fighter jet being piloted by a Russian. In the 1964 movie "Dr. Strangelove," we have Gen. Jack D. Ripper as the nutjob Air Force general who unleashes WW III, whereas in 2017 we have the Far Right's Beloved Leader playing with matches in a world that sees nothing but lunacy and irresponsible actions coming out of the White House.
This ought to be the top story for every news outlet. The Trump administration is playing a game of chicken with a major nuclear power over another country's civil war. This, btw, is why the idea of a no-fly-zone was dangerously idiotic.
10
Mandrake, have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rain water, and only pure-grain alcohol?
19
Exactly. That's where we're at. Oh my god.
3
The absolute best anti-war (and anti-'Empire-thinking') film ever shot.
This and Bulworth could have saved America from the disguised (and stupid) crime of 'acting like a global Empire' abroad and a domestic tyranny.
This and Bulworth could have saved America from the disguised (and stupid) crime of 'acting like a global Empire' abroad and a domestic tyranny.
3
Thank you. This is the only real laugh I was able to get out this this entire read. And I sure wanted to have a laugh by the end of it. That and some of Brig Gen Ripper's cocktail.
2
Shooting down another's airplane hardly seems an effort that needs coordination over a hotline, it seems pretty momentary and deliberate. We really need a hotline to say, oops . . .or, stick that in your eye?
The hotline response to the Russians would likely be: "Can you please wait - Donald Trump is finishing his second piece of chocolate cake at the 9th hole in Mar-a-Lago. He cannot be disturbed. Hold your missiles, we will get back to you on that."
5
Call me cynical but every time the heat gets turned up on the Trump Russian connection something dangerous happens to fill the news cycle.
I could see Trump and Putin both setting this up, it takes the spotlight off Trump and helps put more swagger Putin's walk.
I could see Trump and Putin both setting this up, it takes the spotlight off Trump and helps put more swagger Putin's walk.
16
“It seems that the United States under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.”
Well, Mr. Klintsevich, you're not wrong - not even in the slightest. Although, I'd like to point out that the exact same thing could be said of Russia under Vladimir Putin.
Well, Mr. Klintsevich, you're not wrong - not even in the slightest. Although, I'd like to point out that the exact same thing could be said of Russia under Vladimir Putin.
4
Those newly created jobs in the coal mine are starting to look mighty attractive!
9
They might as well -- if there's a nuclear fallout, folks might have to start living in them.
2
Based on the current state of affairs, are we wrong to think that this might be a diversion tactic designed by Trump & Putin's back channels in order to take some heat off of Trump's Russia investigations?
10
You don't magically become the first U.S. pilot over Syria to shoot down a Syrian jet. "Whoops. We accidentally locked-on to a foreign warplane and pulled the trigger. Our bad." That's not how these things work. Something's up. I'll bet money the pilot had orders, permission, or at least ROE justification. I imagine that's the reason Gen. Dunford is stalling for time. He wants to know exactly where he stands before talking with Russia.
I can't accept the Russian position as credible though. Even if the pilot made a mistake, at least we managed to hit a military airplane in the process. You'd find it tough to make the same claim about Russia's air combat record.
I can't accept the Russian position as credible though. Even if the pilot made a mistake, at least we managed to hit a military airplane in the process. You'd find it tough to make the same claim about Russia's air combat record.
1
Good thing we've got Trump to figure this all out!
No worries.
No worries.
6
Guess he could make up stories like hill did on Benghazi.
I suppose war is one way to neutralize the investigations here at home.
5
is it still possible to accidentally target the wrong plane? i thought technology made such "mistakes" unlikely. even with last week's ordnance.
1
"Hey Putin, I need some distraction over here!"
"We're going to shoot down a plane, you're going to act mad about it, we're going to let people fret and worry about something BIG happening, and we will work it out and look like we are doing high level diplomacy. Sound good?"
"And...I won't say anything ever about Russia meddling in our last, and future elections, and you won't release the goods you have on me. Sound good? Ok!"
"We're going to shoot down a plane, you're going to act mad about it, we're going to let people fret and worry about something BIG happening, and we will work it out and look like we are doing high level diplomacy. Sound good?"
"And...I won't say anything ever about Russia meddling in our last, and future elections, and you won't release the goods you have on me. Sound good? Ok!"
10
Sadly, Trump does not view appointments as a means to articulate the mechanisms of state, but rather as either political plums or a personage upon whom to deflect blame when things go badly (and take credit when things go well). Maybe you can have your cake and eat it too when playing shell games in the media circus, but the con breaks down when you have to deal with other heads of state. This isn't an event that can be written off to Putin by saying, "Well, Jim Mattis said it was OK."
Unfortunately we have a Commander in Chief who has effectively abdicated his responsibilities in directing wartime strategy (never mind that Congress has never actually *authorized* any such war in Syria), in a conflict that, like that of our other two Middle East entanglements, has no clear endgame. What are our conditions for "winning" in Syria? How will we get there? How will this endgame square with our diplomatic policy with Russia? These are all things that the *President* must know and answer. It's not a problem that can be resolved by simply doubling the number of troops/tanks/guns, but one that must be dealt with in the context of a coherent diplomatic vision.
Force is a critical element, but is only a part of the diplomatic tool chest. If you leave decision-making to the generals, it may be the only tool they know how to pick up and use, against a problem which force alone cannot solve.
Unfortunately we have a Commander in Chief who has effectively abdicated his responsibilities in directing wartime strategy (never mind that Congress has never actually *authorized* any such war in Syria), in a conflict that, like that of our other two Middle East entanglements, has no clear endgame. What are our conditions for "winning" in Syria? How will we get there? How will this endgame square with our diplomatic policy with Russia? These are all things that the *President* must know and answer. It's not a problem that can be resolved by simply doubling the number of troops/tanks/guns, but one that must be dealt with in the context of a coherent diplomatic vision.
Force is a critical element, but is only a part of the diplomatic tool chest. If you leave decision-making to the generals, it may be the only tool they know how to pick up and use, against a problem which force alone cannot solve.
5
The Trump administrations foreign policy as a reaction to internal political pressure? And as pressure mounts, will that "policy" increasingly be expressed as a no holds barred international risk taking venture, to serve as both warning and blackmail over the investigatory system of checks and balances that pose a threat that power? There is no obligation to the welfare of anything here except maintaining power. What loss of power means to people like this is beyond the comprehension of most who have a personal interest in something called the future, for children and the planet.
3
Unending war. What could make the military/industrial complex happier? Will we ever grow up and stop the madness?
4
Pick one:
a) war
b) genocide
a) war
b) genocide
Some of us can imagine other options. Fifteen years of misguided war in the Middle East has done nothing but foster bring about ever greater suffering. Time to stop pressing the same button.
It would be my assessment that Syria was driven to the bombing to test the resolve and limits of American air power in the contest with ISIS. Much as they continue to do around the world, the Russians are forever probing and testing western responses and resolve. The US, for it's part, is trying to communicate the limits of it's tolerance by action and not words. Obama was high on rhetoric, but very sort on establishing clear limits. Clear limits helps establish security and does not impede it. This is a reset, driven by both the US State Department and the US Defense Department to reestablish American credibility and resolve so the Russians, not so much the Syrian's, know where our limits are. Better this testing is done in this zone of conflict, where each side has "confusion" to avoid political embarrassment than to test these limits in a more clearly defined zone wherein only the US and Russian's have interests. In those spaces, national pride and public reaction could escalate an incident into a larger regional or geopolitical crisis. This was the right test at the right location for both countries. Syria was merely a proxy.
It is imperative that we have a clear goal and understandable policy to avoid unnecessary confrontations and military engagement. It is impossible to do that with a leader who is unable to comprehend the problem and to treat peace as a priority over personal profits.
4
Will this turn out to be the Trump era's "Gulf of Tonkin" incident? This was bound to happen and something much worse will probably happen in the future. We just increased troop strength in Afghanistan which will do nothing help that situation. Bluster and rhetoric does not make a policy.
4
The exact same scenario would have been played out with Clinton in the WH. Why? Because the military industrial complex is intent on perpetuating and expanding US hegemony. That means doing what it takes in the region - and elsewhere - to keep that oil and gas pumping our way. We are collectively looking at a future of dwindling resources and massive displacement due to climate change. The chess pieces are being shifted accordingly. The people running this show have no interest in 'the greater good' or sustainability through environmental responsibility. Their interest is short term profit, limitless power and owning the future. If it takes war with Russia to achieve this, then so be it. Sorry if that's a dark scenario but the interests being served by America's constant warfare are certainly not those of the average citizen, much less those of humanity.
The Syrian Civil War is a humanitarian disaster and has become yet another Middle East theater of war reflecting a bewildering cross current of competing international interests. Given reports that the Trump Administration is giving the DoD a freer hand in prosecuting the tactical objectives in Afghanistan, is this approach also being applied in Iraq and Syria with uncertain and potentially dangerous consequences?
1
Six months into this Trump administration, and we are witnessing the unraveling of eight years of a balancing act not to engage us further into the Mideast debacle. Perhaps, the hawks of this country will view President Obama in a more favorable light when our soldiers once again begin returning home either injured, sick, or in a coffin. Perhaps, what they viewed as a weakness was in reality a metaphorical game of chess to extricate ourselves from a part of the world that is a beyond our scope both philosophically and politically. Perhaps, it is time for our Congress to step up to the plate and truly start representing the majority of Americans who are loudly crying, No More Wars.
1
This was probably not the best move given that we have a President who annoys and bullies our NATO allies. Diplomacy is complicated. This isn't just about Syria and Russia. It pulls in players into a global game.
In Trump's case the game is FIZZBIN from the Star Trek episode "A Piece of the Action". Kirk and Spock keep changing the rules to cheat and win. Putin makes the rules and changes them at will. Trump has bought into a rigged card game. We need to get out while we are ahead.
In Trump's case the game is FIZZBIN from the Star Trek episode "A Piece of the Action". Kirk and Spock keep changing the rules to cheat and win. Putin makes the rules and changes them at will. Trump has bought into a rigged card game. We need to get out while we are ahead.
1
A good president is like a good sailor. The proof of his intelligence and expertise is shown when the boat is navigating through a storm. Unfortunately this nation has a Commander in Chief that any time he takes action he does more harm than good.
My guess is that Putin is smarter than to go to into a war he cannot win.
Syria is a much different situation than Georgia or Crimea where the US does not have troops and Putin knows we will not go to war in those places.
We have a much, much greater military strength in general and in the Middle East specifically.
Also, the Russian economy is not doing that well and Russia cannot afford to lose a lot of jets.
In addition, Putin is propping up his base in Russia by acting like a world power. But actually trying to go to war like a world power and then losing would have repercussions with his base inside Russia.
Putin is very dangerous but he is not stupid. He does what he knows he can get away with.
Now North Korea is another story.
Syria is a much different situation than Georgia or Crimea where the US does not have troops and Putin knows we will not go to war in those places.
We have a much, much greater military strength in general and in the Middle East specifically.
Also, the Russian economy is not doing that well and Russia cannot afford to lose a lot of jets.
In addition, Putin is propping up his base in Russia by acting like a world power. But actually trying to go to war like a world power and then losing would have repercussions with his base inside Russia.
Putin is very dangerous but he is not stupid. He does what he knows he can get away with.
Now North Korea is another story.
I have little confidence that the Trump Administration can handle this without either backing down completely or beating their chests and going to war. We've got the blind leading the blind I'm afraid. There will no be a good outcome here.
1
Same old routine: when the getting gets tough at home, get tough abroad.
War is always the answer. Here the scenario is more complex because it is more simple and one of the few instances where duplicity is exposed through planned transparency.
War is peace. Education is ignorance, etc., etc., etc.
We might thank George Orwell and his classic book-1984- but we should also thank the Marx Brothers classic-Duck Soup-for making insanity seem rational. Between the sadness and joy of each, we have Trump. America gets what it deserves: a truly dysfunctional government.
People are fighting over what is argued to be a war for freedom, democracy and whatever other slop will be gobbled up by the ignorant. But this Syrian story-fairy tale of enormous horror is really just a struggle over who will control the oil and oil pipe lines in that part of the world. It is no struggle for freedom but a proxy war of the one percent in the west and east to determine who gets the right to rape and pillage what is left of humanity. A war for oil sold as a war for freedom.
We know the Russian ruler could care less. And we know that Trump has even less care. The race to extinction is perhaps coming to a close. Maybe it is all for the better.
War is always the answer. Here the scenario is more complex because it is more simple and one of the few instances where duplicity is exposed through planned transparency.
War is peace. Education is ignorance, etc., etc., etc.
We might thank George Orwell and his classic book-1984- but we should also thank the Marx Brothers classic-Duck Soup-for making insanity seem rational. Between the sadness and joy of each, we have Trump. America gets what it deserves: a truly dysfunctional government.
People are fighting over what is argued to be a war for freedom, democracy and whatever other slop will be gobbled up by the ignorant. But this Syrian story-fairy tale of enormous horror is really just a struggle over who will control the oil and oil pipe lines in that part of the world. It is no struggle for freedom but a proxy war of the one percent in the west and east to determine who gets the right to rape and pillage what is left of humanity. A war for oil sold as a war for freedom.
We know the Russian ruler could care less. And we know that Trump has even less care. The race to extinction is perhaps coming to a close. Maybe it is all for the better.
2
This is heating up way too quickly on all sides and there are no longer any adults in charge on the American side. I'm so weary of being petrified to read the paper or turn on the radio/TV in fear that Trump and/or his appointees have said something or taken some action with no thought for possible dire consequences.
Each day of this administration's existence brings us one day closer to utter disaster. A democracy cannot exist in chaos.
Each day of this administration's existence brings us one day closer to utter disaster. A democracy cannot exist in chaos.
The problem here is that US policy in Syria is blind. Russian defense folks are going to scream foul to keep their drumbeaters at home happy. US planes are already tracked so that threat is a moot.
The Question that's not been answered is this: Are the rebel groups we are supporting really going to want to carve out their own "free" country?
Given the mess that Afghanistan and Iraq are in now after those countries where "liberated" aren't we setting ourselves up for the same thing in Syria? The Russians apparently think so that's why they are there. I would like to know what the endgame is for the United States.
The Question that's not been answered is this: Are the rebel groups we are supporting really going to want to carve out their own "free" country?
Given the mess that Afghanistan and Iraq are in now after those countries where "liberated" aren't we setting ourselves up for the same thing in Syria? The Russians apparently think so that's why they are there. I would like to know what the endgame is for the United States.
Let's agree to do this: Should this situation devolve further and the United States find itself mired in a serious confrontation with Russia, can we call upon the previous president and his staff to step in and handle the crisis until it abates? When it's resolved, President Obama will agree to hand the reins back to Trump and Company. The thought of Trump, Bannon and the increasingly weary and unengaged president dealing with these profoundly consequential matters sends shivers up my spine, and should concern anyone currently residing on this planet. I'm sure Mr. Obama would concur with this plan and be a willing participant.
We have a president who shows no interest in learning about any issue beyond what can fit on a Post It note. We can only hope that there are enough sane, learned people in the administration who recognize the inherent dangers in this scenario and assert themselves accordingly. After watching cabinet members kissing the ring recently, I'm not overly optimistic. What a mess.
Gee, let's see:
Russia is a longtime ally of Syria's, it has been invited by the legitimate government of Syria to help protect it from rebel groups.
The United States is supplying money and weapons to rebel groups to help them take down the legitimate government of Syria. (Israel would really really like it if we would.)
The US shoots down a Syrian plane in Syrian airspace.
I'd like to see how the Times spins this as Russian aggression.
I'm sure it won't be long.
Russia is a longtime ally of Syria's, it has been invited by the legitimate government of Syria to help protect it from rebel groups.
The United States is supplying money and weapons to rebel groups to help them take down the legitimate government of Syria. (Israel would really really like it if we would.)
The US shoots down a Syrian plane in Syrian airspace.
I'd like to see how the Times spins this as Russian aggression.
I'm sure it won't be long.
13
No. It probably won't be too long before the entire region is involved in one kind of squirmish or another.
In fact, SPIEGELonline (in German) is reporting Saudi Arabia just captured a boatload of Iran's Revolutionary Guards supposedly on their way to attacking an oil well somewhere in the Persian Golf.
In fact, SPIEGELonline (in German) is reporting Saudi Arabia just captured a boatload of Iran's Revolutionary Guards supposedly on their way to attacking an oil well somewhere in the Persian Golf.
1
“It is Russia that is being provoked most of all,” Mr. Klintsevich wrote in a Facebook post. “It seems that the United States under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.”
Should it surprise anyone at this point that the Times should save the most pertinent, the most truthful comment for last?
Should it surprise anyone at this point that the Times should save the most pertinent, the most truthful comment for last?
4
Comrad Donaldov,
We have a small problem. Your air force shot down a Syrian jet, and the Syrians are mad.
Don't worry Sergei, I'll speak to the general in charge of the air force, and we'll take care of it.
Thanks Donalov, and by the way, your request for a hotel in Moscow is getting closer to a vote.
We have a small problem. Your air force shot down a Syrian jet, and the Syrians are mad.
Don't worry Sergei, I'll speak to the general in charge of the air force, and we'll take care of it.
Thanks Donalov, and by the way, your request for a hotel in Moscow is getting closer to a vote.
42
You can forget about the hotel for now, Sergey. We plan to rebuild the whole city.
Reply from Donalov, "I guess, Hillary got her "No Fly Zone" provocation to war over Syria anyway."
"I may have beat her politically here, but it looks like she won her 'War Hawk' wings over there .... then the Donald breaks out in song on the 18th green: "Over there, over there, we will fight for the right over there".
"I may have beat her politically here, but it looks like she won her 'War Hawk' wings over there .... then the Donald breaks out in song on the 18th green: "Over there, over there, we will fight for the right over there".
1
It is very clear that U.S. policy, unstated as it must be for reasons of image, is directed towards complete hegemony in the middle east and, more importantly, the colonization of Russia in order to exploit its natural resources. Not only that, but also it seeks regime change in Iran, which would be facilitated, when the time comes, if there was a puppet regime in Syria which would negate the possibility of rear-guard action against an invasion force sent against the IRI. This latest shameful, criminal incident points to the agressive proclivity of what has increasingly become an outlaw state under the would-be plutocrat Trump.
14
Who didn’t anticipate the manufacturing boom and uptick in employment Mr. Trump promised during the campaign wouldn’t be as a result of an enormous military buildup? And with their desire to take us back in time, who couldn’t have predicted this administration would engage us in various hot wars just like the good old days?
I voted enthusiastically for Sec. Clinton, primarily because I thought she was the smartest person in the room and she understood the vital role of diplomatic engagement. I was a kid, a teenager, and then a young adult during Vietnam. I don't want to be in the middle of your war, Messrs. Trump and Putin. Consider itsmildeyesland neutral.
I voted enthusiastically for Sec. Clinton, primarily because I thought she was the smartest person in the room and she understood the vital role of diplomatic engagement. I was a kid, a teenager, and then a young adult during Vietnam. I don't want to be in the middle of your war, Messrs. Trump and Putin. Consider itsmildeyesland neutral.
34
you thought Hillary was the smartest person in the room?!?
The "clash" with Russia intensifies, but the president and his associates show us time and again they aren't willing to call Russia to order--which is just what Russia wants. All evidence indicates the Trump administration simply doesn't believe any of Russia's actions have been a problem. Given this, downing the jet is a puzzle. Was it a local decision? Was the administration notified?
Mr. Trump has no pertinent Syria policies. But our general position vis-a-vis Russia should be unambiguous. Russia attacked and continues to attack our own democracy and the democracies of our allies. Russia bombs our Syrian allies who are resisting the brutal Syrian regime. Russia has interfered with the worldwide effort against ISIS. Russia could not care less about human rights, democracy, and the other principles that all Americans believe in.
Mr. Trump has no pertinent Syria policies. But our general position vis-a-vis Russia should be unambiguous. Russia attacked and continues to attack our own democracy and the democracies of our allies. Russia bombs our Syrian allies who are resisting the brutal Syrian regime. Russia has interfered with the worldwide effort against ISIS. Russia could not care less about human rights, democracy, and the other principles that all Americans believe in.
9
Who gave the go-ahead on shooting down that plane, this is high-stakes stuff, no pilot takes this into his own hands, this comes from the top. Was it trump, was it Jared. Wars have started over less.
49
Commanders on the "ground" had authority.
“It is Russia that is being provoked most of all,” Mr. Klintsevich wrote in a Facebook post. “It seems that the United States under Donald Trump is the source of danger for the Middle East and the whole world on a qualitatively new level.”
Hey, don't blame us. YOU'RE the ones that got him selected president!
Hey, don't blame us. YOU'RE the ones that got him selected president!
93
How could you blame that on the remote Russians? Last time i checked it was the US electoral college which -once again after W. Bush first term- put in office the loser of the popular vote, being an unrepresentative if not undemocratic system.
So we shoot down a Syrian plane in Syria, where we have no authority to be flying, and Assad and the Syrian government have nothing to say and let the Ruskies speak for them? Sad!
4
If it was the other way around, would you say the same of the US? Don't even attempt to deny it, you wouldn't have an ounce of credibility.
Another fun day at the White House! I'm in the news too much so let's shoot down a Syrian jet, (Putey said he'd pretend to rattle his sword and threaten) and then Jared will go the Middle East and save the day! Time for golf!
53
And we've got diaper man in the big house with access to the nukes. I doubt that he'll do anything, as it would mean that the Russians would probably make his "Trump" brand publicly available (last week they promised him 'brand' protection on all things with his imprimatur on them! Why?)!
14
More money going out of your pockets and into Erik Prince's, Haliburton, Black Swan and the Carlyle Group as well as Tillerson's friends in Saudi Arabia. It is money they are after, your money.
61
Erik Prince has made at least one appearance on Fox explaining how mercenaries were good for the US military. This is all about revenue streams. He and his sister Betsy DeVos both want taxpayer revenue streams to their companies and pet projects, in military and public education.
1
Oh great. With a bunch of amateurs in the White House, short staffing at State, what could possibly go wrong.
Now they're sending Jared Kushner to make peace in the Middle East?
I need a drink.
Now they're sending Jared Kushner to make peace in the Middle East?
I need a drink.
68
Putin's playing chess. He may get slapped hard. We also may end up crying over here. Both may happen.
1
New York needs to be demolished in order to be rebuilt. Just like the World Trade Center, only better, with even bigger shopping malls.
@Ferdinant
I don't know how long you've been in New York, but it's already being demolished and rebuilt.
I don't know how long you've been in New York, but it's already being demolished and rebuilt.
1
The Syrian jet was warned away several times and yet went ahead to bomb US backed forces.
What did his commanders think when the US jet said "back off or I will fire" ?
What did his commanders think when the US jet said "back off or I will fire" ?
15
The US has no business in Syria. They have no right to tell Syrian armed forces to do in their own country.
What do you think if someone says "Back off or I will fire?"
Who invited us or you to the party?
No problem.
Trump can simply call his good friend, Putin, and negotiate a good deal...
Trump can simply call his good friend, Putin, and negotiate a good deal...
History seems to repeat itself and they never learn from the past. I was in the Army during the Cuban missile crisis.The Watergate crisis is still fresh in my mind. And now an F/A-18 shoots down a Syrian warplane. Are we ready for a confrontation with Russia and Syria at it's side with Donald Trump as U.S. Commander in Chief? I am frightened, disgusted, and bewildered. MSNBC aired Alex Jones last night,and thanks to the NY Times I watched a stomach wrenching 17 minute clip and now the inmates are in charge of the asylum.
24
Amazing how people immediately denounce anything the Russians say, while at the same time our country can do no wrong. Really, why did we shoot down another countries war plane. That's an act of War. Lets please stay on mission here, the problem is ISIS. If Obama had done this Trump would be livid.
ISIS is our and Saudi creaction how can people not see that; the whole world sees it except americans.
All right, Mr. "President." What are you going to do to keep this from going out of control?
14
Wars, Killing & Terrorism will make America great again. As 'SP' DJ trump foresaw. Indeed WARS make american capiitalism GREATER. WW II, Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam War, Afghanistan & Iraq Wars, 'bin laden' & ISIS War and now 'Putin's War' will avoid USA economic recession. That's why Wars are for.
LOL remember that time Trump said we should stay OUT of Syria? Trump supporters, what say ye now? Nothing? Oh right, I forgot-- nothing matters anymore.
44
He did say that and he may have even meant it. However, once in office the POTUS is under the thumb of the MIC and the Deep State.
Russians often do the opposite of what they say. And just like Trump's tweeting they like to talk way too much when they are not planning to do much. Although to be fair, Russians use far better grammar.
9
I see a time not so far in the future when who shoots at who is a random draw from random hacks. I hope to heck NATO moved its nukes out of storage in Turkey. We sell war planes to the brothers who are fighting each other. That must be why we are going to outsource/offshore additional capacity to India. HUH Donald?
2
More evidence of "collusion." Trump has downed a Russian-backed plane just to throw us off track in pursuing the collusion case. Story on CNN to follow.
6
Trump is not fit to be Commander-in-Chief. He has abdicated all responsibility for military leadership by handing it over to the Pentagon. Will his preference for golf at Mar-a-Lago over the duties of President of the United States lead us to World War III? How long will the Republican leadership keep this dangerous and ignorant Trump in the Oval Office?,
14
How about we give Eastern Europe some upgraded anti-missile, anti-aircraft and anti-tank weaponry just to keep things on an even keel?
2
We already have. It's called NATO.
1
I hope none of the planes is named "Archduke Ferdinand"
10
Putin's chess. Russia will see the U.S. comply with it's will or challenge the U.S. to risk going to war with Russia over Syria. We will see how true Trump's love of Putin really happens to be when he has to kiss Putin's backside or watch Americans and Russians shooting each other out of the skies. My guess is that Trump is going become very frustrated because he's really afraid of messing with Putin. My guess is that Trump was involved in some less that admirable financial deal with one of Putin's minions which would tend to defame him in the eyes of his base which Putin has been holding over him since he began his run for the Republican nomination.
145
That is not all that we will see.
And ...
The Russians have his tax returns too. That rumps anything else they might have on him.
The Russians have his tax returns too. That rumps anything else they might have on him.
Vladimir Putin is playing chess, while Donald Trump thinks they are playing checkers.
Or, perhaps more accurately, Putin is playing Risk while Trump is playing Monopoly. Either way, President Trump is WAY out of his league, and does not even understand the rules--which means that us pawns are likely to suffer as a result.
Or, perhaps more accurately, Putin is playing Risk while Trump is playing Monopoly. Either way, President Trump is WAY out of his league, and does not even understand the rules--which means that us pawns are likely to suffer as a result.
1
Believe it or not, Tillerson and others are correct that this is an inappropriate time for the US to levy sanctions against Russia - the big picture requires at least a temporary suspension of anti-Russia prejudice to reach a beneficial resolution. Moreover, in this very serious matter, a person with a different approach, Trump, is the right person. Stubborn Hillary and cohorts would have us in WWIII.
1
Uh, looks like it's the other way around. Trump's total lack of care about diplomacy is what got us here in the first place. You're spouting the same nonsense that got Trump elected. The same lies. You are part of the problem.
13
Russia is a failing third rate regional power. WW3 would be extremely short and devastating for the Russians. A fear of a war that is never going to happen is irrational and a poor excuse to roll over for the Russians criminal acts world wide. What was once communism has become a blatant kleptocracy, ruled like a mob family.
1
Putin is not worried about more sanctions and he is not worried about Russians and Americans shooting each other's planes out of the skies. Putin is worried that Syria might cease being a site for Russian naval and military bases in the Eastern Mediterranean sea. So he is taking a risk that Trump will not risk having Americans and Russians shooting each others planes out of the skies and backing down to allow Russians and Syrians to continue massacring people in the hope of ending the civil war with Assad firmly in control.
This is where the folly of the Trump presidency comes into clear focus. To be sure, Russia's interference in the election, and Trump's clumsy efforts to derail the investigation are serious. However, the growing military threat of Russia and the ever-present instability in the Middle East must now be seen through the prism of Trump's global vision. What’s that you say? Oh right, he has no vision. The White House is a vacuum on these matters. I suspect that Trump could not locate Syria on a map. This is a guy who deals in soundbites delivered from the escalator in Trump Tower. His one practiced skill seems to be re-configuring platitudes as potshots directed at others There is no rational, overarching philosophy on global matters coming from the White House, and don’t hold your breath for one. If any policy does emerge from the White House, you can bet it won’t be Trump’s. He isn’t capable. As others have pointed out, military generals will be dictating policy. You would think that the Republican leadership in Congress would be banging the pots the loudest about the growing Russia problem. No, they are frantically trying to finish dressing up the pig that is their healthcare plan while no one is looking. This is nothing more than a serious attempt to skin and gut Medicare.
At least Trump knows how to conduct Twitter fights with Rosie O'Donnell. Welcome to dystopia.
At least Trump knows how to conduct Twitter fights with Rosie O'Donnell. Welcome to dystopia.
23
Best comment on this board.
Nicely done!!
Most disturbing is how few recommends it has
Nicely done!!
Most disturbing is how few recommends it has
1
Is this part of Trump's loosening of the rules of engagement or would this have happened under any administration? I do not trust the current administration to understand the strategies or consequences, and I do not trust it to avoid using a conflict to shut down domestic investigations. I hope I'm wrong.
2
Once the toddler gets his next 5 bullet point memo on Syria from the Generals, he'll tear it up because he knows more than they do, and he'll replace it with a secret beautiful plan (invade Syria and Russia with a massive ground force). No worries. Everyone will be protected. Trump after all is very smart, very.
Back to reality: we're headed for an actual regional war, maybe even a world war. Trump is unstable, brainless and clueless. Some adult needs to step in, but there are none in his administration or in the GOP. Very scary.
Back to reality: we're headed for an actual regional war, maybe even a world war. Trump is unstable, brainless and clueless. Some adult needs to step in, but there are none in his administration or in the GOP. Very scary.
8
Putin is bluffing. But how do you "bluff" a throw of the dice? Assume that Putin is as rational as he is portrayed (a big "if"). Trump however is not. I view Trump as a "weighted random," i.e. slightly more likely to come down on the side of stability than not, but not reliably so; probabalistic rather than calculating-- or willing to listen to his experts who do calculate.
Anything could come of this. But the greatest threat to US combat aircraft is from ground-to-air missiles and their radar. Doctrine suggests a US pre-emptive strike against Russian SAM radars. Could Putin stand down from that? I doubt even Putin knows. But if we do go onto a combat footing with Russia that will further raise the profile of Russian meddling in our election.
Anything could come of this. But the greatest threat to US combat aircraft is from ground-to-air missiles and their radar. Doctrine suggests a US pre-emptive strike against Russian SAM radars. Could Putin stand down from that? I doubt even Putin knows. But if we do go onto a combat footing with Russia that will further raise the profile of Russian meddling in our election.
1
Correct. Because of superior training and technology the US pilot will come out on top almost every time. But I doubt the US would have the stomach for taking out grand radar units, that would just escalate.
Both the Russian and the American economies are critically dependent on military production (planes, bombs, tanks, drones, etc. etc.) so it's just simple: the we and the Russians need to keep this war going or else start a similar, new one somewhere else. Unbelievably sad. Mankind is goofing up about everything it touches!
We should not have been engaging Syrian aircraft. Regardless: how tough will tough-guy Trump be in the face of Putin's threat to shoot down our planes? This is a nightmare that Trump hasn't a clue how to salvage. Obama didn't help the mess that Bush created, but Trump is truly clueless.
1
So, how can one actually "help" a mess?
At least Obama didn't engage the U.S. to the possible brink of a major conflict, by recognizing Syria for the quagmire that it is.
Besides, one "Viet Nam" in American history is quite enough...oh, I forgot, there's Afghanistan.
At least Obama didn't engage the U.S. to the possible brink of a major conflict, by recognizing Syria for the quagmire that it is.
Besides, one "Viet Nam" in American history is quite enough...oh, I forgot, there's Afghanistan.
6
Obama was supposed to be the Peace president. He was not.
A pattern is beginning to emerge.
It is endlessly fascinating the way the Russians always become threatening and belligerent, in the most dire way, at the first thing that crosses their path to dominance.
I don't doubt that the US military is tired of worrying if bombs will be dropped on their heads; and tired of not responding to threatening situations because of Obama's reticence (to do anything really) and unrealistic policy directions.
Look, if a Syrian plane dropped a bomb near me, and I knew I was with a more dominant force, I would want to make sure it didn't happen again too. But did the order to shoot down a sovereign nation's military plane come from the white house? Or did it come from a captain in the field? Is our military going rogue because of the absent leadership on Pennsylvania Avenue?
This is getting us much closer to a war than the terrible day in Benghazi ever did. Congress needs to investigate the chain of command here to make sure the military is still being run by the civilian branch.
I don't doubt that the US military is tired of worrying if bombs will be dropped on their heads; and tired of not responding to threatening situations because of Obama's reticence (to do anything really) and unrealistic policy directions.
Look, if a Syrian plane dropped a bomb near me, and I knew I was with a more dominant force, I would want to make sure it didn't happen again too. But did the order to shoot down a sovereign nation's military plane come from the white house? Or did it come from a captain in the field? Is our military going rogue because of the absent leadership on Pennsylvania Avenue?
This is getting us much closer to a war than the terrible day in Benghazi ever did. Congress needs to investigate the chain of command here to make sure the military is still being run by the civilian branch.
2
I have railed against US military intervention in the Middle East and consider it the principal cause of the unmitigated disasters caused in Iraq, Syria, Libya and now Yemen. The US has absolutely no cultural understanding of the consequences of its actions there and total responsibility of the ensuing humanitarian crises. We should shoulder the overwhelming number of refugees coming out of there, and the other unmitigated disaster-Afghanistan, yet have accepted the least. And then we insert US troops and weaponry in Syria, against the sovereign nation's wishes, and expect that something nasty won't happen to them. Why not pick on China, Russia or even North Korea? We all know the answer there.
9
If there was ever a time when we needed a cool headed, clear eyed Commander in Chief who had a game plan for Syria and the respect and support of the country if we wind up in a shooting situation, this is it. The Syrian mess if ripe for mistakes and could have disastrous consequences for the credibility of our nation - it already has. Whichever way we move (or don't) we are in a minefield that requires an understanding of the dangers to find a way through it. That we don't have a CIC that can do this is our national shame. You can't tweet your way out of this one.
1
I thought about writing a longer note, but I realized I could sum up my concerns pretty briefly: if we're going to have some type of crisis, I wish someone/anyone else were President.
7
Stated US policy makes no sense. Recruit Syrian rebels to fight ISIS? Huh? Obviously we're fighting a proxy war with Russia over the future of Syria, whether Trump gets it or not (not).
2
Yes, we are fighting a proxy war over the future of Syria. But for whom? Follow the oil. Where does ISIS send the oil? Who buys the oil at 90% discount? Why are there no sanctions against ISIS?
1
ISIS (our and saudi creation) sells us the oil through saudis for cheap for years; Why do you think we have cheap gas for some time at gas stations.
Welcome back to Cold War II (CW II)
However, after watching Showtimes/Oliver Stone's Putin Interviews I am convinced that Putin and Russia are in trouble. They need a distraction as badly as Trump does.
My hope is the author of "Dereliction of Duty", NSA McMaster and the rest of what is a good national security team leads. They demand Trump not tweet. Be adults and deescluate this situation.
In CW II we have again a morally bankrupt state and leader in Russia. Unlike Cold War I (CW I), we have a leaders in the US that are either perceived as weak (Obama) or are incompetent (Trump). In CW I we fought via proxies for a military industrial complex shrodded in ideology. Now in CW II we are fighting proxy wars for pure profit but with a common enemy this time (ISIS/jihadist fundmentalism) - but still against each other.
My cooler heads prevail ...
However, after watching Showtimes/Oliver Stone's Putin Interviews I am convinced that Putin and Russia are in trouble. They need a distraction as badly as Trump does.
My hope is the author of "Dereliction of Duty", NSA McMaster and the rest of what is a good national security team leads. They demand Trump not tweet. Be adults and deescluate this situation.
In CW II we have again a morally bankrupt state and leader in Russia. Unlike Cold War I (CW I), we have a leaders in the US that are either perceived as weak (Obama) or are incompetent (Trump). In CW I we fought via proxies for a military industrial complex shrodded in ideology. Now in CW II we are fighting proxy wars for pure profit but with a common enemy this time (ISIS/jihadist fundmentalism) - but still against each other.
My cooler heads prevail ...
If they need a distraction, and we need a distraction, let's go for it.
It is humorous to see these same liberal posters today praising Prrsident Obama for staying out of the mess in Syria, but last year were loudly condemning Mr. Obama for his "inaction" while Syrian civilians were being bombed to death by this same Syrian air force.
Clearly, the only thing liberals seem to care about concerning the humanitarian crisis in Syria is not saving lives but venting more their hatred of Donald Trump.
Granted, neither Trump or Obama have handled this crisis in a compentent manner. Likewise, nor has Congress, with another xenophobic vote demanding more sanctions against the only rational player in this crisis, Iran.
This lack of competency throughout our government is clearly our fault as voters.
So, until we have citizens who choose to act as adults - instead of screaming children that point fingers - by taking their civic duties seriously and vote for real adults in Congress and the White House, we should refrain from getting involved in conflicts like Syria, no matter how painful, since it may be the most rational thing our nation can do until we put aside our childish ways.
Clearly, the only thing liberals seem to care about concerning the humanitarian crisis in Syria is not saving lives but venting more their hatred of Donald Trump.
Granted, neither Trump or Obama have handled this crisis in a compentent manner. Likewise, nor has Congress, with another xenophobic vote demanding more sanctions against the only rational player in this crisis, Iran.
This lack of competency throughout our government is clearly our fault as voters.
So, until we have citizens who choose to act as adults - instead of screaming children that point fingers - by taking their civic duties seriously and vote for real adults in Congress and the White House, we should refrain from getting involved in conflicts like Syria, no matter how painful, since it may be the most rational thing our nation can do until we put aside our childish ways.
2
Baloney!
Sounds like a ploy for Putin to offer Trump a detente pow wow that will allow both of them to look like they pulled our two countries off the brink of nuclear war - Thus casting Trump's whole murky Russia obsession and Putin's election hacking criminalites onto the way way forgettable back burner.
I ain't buying it.
Sounds like a ploy for Putin to offer Trump a detente pow wow that will allow both of them to look like they pulled our two countries off the brink of nuclear war - Thus casting Trump's whole murky Russia obsession and Putin's election hacking criminalites onto the way way forgettable back burner.
I ain't buying it.
1
These events serve to highlight a vacuum of competent leadership in the US, and move us closer to failed state status. I have zero confidence in Trump's ability to respond effectively to this threat. The contrast between this and the previous administration couldn't be more clearly delineated. There are no easy answers here, but at least with Pres. Obama at the helm, I could be assured that the US would not do something stupid or malicious to undermine the pursuit of peace. This is no longer the case. The Trump presidency is in shambles and he is determined to sow chaos and destruction in his wake. We are inching closer to our own Reichstag Fire moment.
353
Well, Obama wouldn't do anything if the red line was crossed would he?
Remember Chamberlain?
Remember Chamberlain?
Obama and Clinton destabilized the North Africa (Libya, Egypt, etc.) and Syria. Obama drew a line in the sand but failed to follow up when Assad used chemical weapons on civilians. He gave the Iranians badly needed fund for their missile program and adventures in Syria. Are those real policy for peace?
"There are no easy answers here" - Anne
There IS an easy answer. Supremely easy, as a matter of fact: EXIT the Middle East and let the country or countries who are affected by this mess take up the slack. We've spent trillions of dollars to accomplish little or nothing. In fact, many Americans feel that our several 'wars' and occupations have worsened the situation.
There IS an easy answer. Supremely easy, as a matter of fact: EXIT the Middle East and let the country or countries who are affected by this mess take up the slack. We've spent trillions of dollars to accomplish little or nothing. In fact, many Americans feel that our several 'wars' and occupations have worsened the situation.
Interesting how many of the snarky, superficial, adolescent comments here repeat virtually the same wording; almost as if they were getting their talking points from a single source...
The Russian and Syrian commanders are in a bit of a bind. They are fine going up against defenceless civilians, shooting down civilian airliners, etc., but their assets and troops are second- or third-tier when up against a solid military, and they know it. They are also isolated, with limited room for manoeuver.
So, if they push it, they risk exposing just how weak they are, and how second-rate their technology is. Even their vaunted SA-300s may prove to be useless. Is that what they want the world to see?
I expect the US will continue to press them, in order to learn more of their procedures and capabilities. The Russian bear is full of hot air, and we may find that he is actually a paper tiger.
The Russian and Syrian commanders are in a bit of a bind. They are fine going up against defenceless civilians, shooting down civilian airliners, etc., but their assets and troops are second- or third-tier when up against a solid military, and they know it. They are also isolated, with limited room for manoeuver.
So, if they push it, they risk exposing just how weak they are, and how second-rate their technology is. Even their vaunted SA-300s may prove to be useless. Is that what they want the world to see?
I expect the US will continue to press them, in order to learn more of their procedures and capabilities. The Russian bear is full of hot air, and we may find that he is actually a paper tiger.
6
That may be true. But we also have a chicken hawk in the white house.
4
Whether it is true or not that the Russian's conventional weaponry may be outdated, it doesn't matter how technologically current their nuclear weaponry is. And that's the end game between super states, especially if they believe -- foolishly -- in limited nuclear war as a possible tactic. What's N. Korea going to do when the US and Russia begin nuking it out? China? India and Pakistan? So much opportunity for utter recklessness and chaos birthed by pride, ignorance, fear, and plain stupidity.
I've already seen that type of hawkish, tainted of inferiority complex attitude somewhere else. Charles Lister, is that you ? If the Russian-Syrian-Iranian axis was so weak, it should've taken a handful of days to the regime change supporters to get rid of them, and yet they are still there, and winning the war. There's only one person that is full of hot air Charles, and it's you.
A Syrian warplane was flying over Syria, carrying out a mission assigned to it by the truly reprehensible, but regrettably official Syrian government. It was attacking people who are in open rebellion against this official Syrian government, when it was shot down by a US plane. A US plane that didn't have permission from the Syrians to operate in their airspace, I imagine.
More precisely, this Syrian plane was in fact attacking Raqqa, a bulwark of IS. IS are the ones the US and its motley assortment of fighting bands are also facing, if I'm not very much mistaken. So, essentially, the Syrian plane, flying through its own sovereign airspace was doing precisely what the uninvited and unofficial US-supported "coalition" seeks to do, namely to destroy IS.
I'm truly curious to learn what made the F/A-18 pilot decide to press the button. Let's wait and see. Let's just hope they don't blame the pilot, that's too easy.
More precisely, this Syrian plane was in fact attacking Raqqa, a bulwark of IS. IS are the ones the US and its motley assortment of fighting bands are also facing, if I'm not very much mistaken. So, essentially, the Syrian plane, flying through its own sovereign airspace was doing precisely what the uninvited and unofficial US-supported "coalition" seeks to do, namely to destroy IS.
I'm truly curious to learn what made the F/A-18 pilot decide to press the button. Let's wait and see. Let's just hope they don't blame the pilot, that's too easy.
14
For now we can sleep in peace. Where are we now and where are we heading? Let me remind here a fragment of an ancient vision: "And [the king of the north] will go back (to) his land with great wealth [1945]; and his heart (will be) against the holy covenant [Soviet Union introduced state atheism and believers were repressed]; and will act [it means activity in the international arena]; and turned back to his own land [1991-1993. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Russian troops returned to their country]. At the appointed time [he] will return back [it also means the breakup of the European Union and NATO], and will enter into the south [this can be Georgia], but it will not be as the former [2008 - Georgia] or as the latter [Ukraine], for the dwellers of coastlands of Kittim [USA, in the beginning without Britain] will come against him, and he will be dejected, and will go back." (Daniel 11:28-30a) This will be a nuclear war. (Revelation 6:4) "A great sword" in this context means a nuclear sword. This will be a slaughter. However, it will be neither "the end of the world" (Armageddon). As Jesus foretold, it will be "the beginning of birth pains". (Matthew 24:7, 8)
In 1882 British troops occupied Egypt. Great Britain then took the role of "the king of the south". Around the same time, Russia expanded its influence in the region, which previously belonged to Seleucus I Nicator, and took the role of "the king of the north". (Daniel 11:27)
In 1882 British troops occupied Egypt. Great Britain then took the role of "the king of the south". Around the same time, Russia expanded its influence in the region, which previously belonged to Seleucus I Nicator, and took the role of "the king of the north". (Daniel 11:27)
mr. t's politics of chaos may be good cover for the GOP locally but world leaders seem to be growing weary.
2
We have an incompetent egoist in the Oval Office. I am scared of the imminent plausible possibilities for ensuing apocalypse.
4
The current president has five living former presidents from whom to solicit advice.
What are the chances he has the humility and sense to ask for that help.
He hasn't even staffed up his own State and Defense Departments.
What are the chances he has the humility and sense to ask for that help.
He hasn't even staffed up his own State and Defense Departments.
8
They're trying to dismantle the State Department. It's been a long-term dream of Putin's for that to happen too.
2
Trump's people are probably trying to get staff together, but possible members can see their future careers would see a dead end ahead and decline offers.
2
It's also been a long-term dream of Steve Bannon too....What? Forgot about him????
1
Personally, I'm selfish and feel that since a war between us and Russia is only inevitable, they way things are going, maybe it's better to have it out in Syria which has already pretty much been demolished anyway. It was nice of Assad to give us a clean slate for our battlefield against our arch enemy rather than having to mess up our own yards.
1
Hoping that was meant to be ironic --
if serious, one of the saddest things I've ever read.
if serious, one of the saddest things I've ever read.
1
A big fake fight between treasonous colluders in thumbing of nose to public who realizes their treachery.
Will they play-fight this one on an abandoned Syrian air strip too?
Hey Putin & your boytoy, lil' DonDon, #WeSeeYou.
No one paying attention is fooled.
Will they play-fight this one on an abandoned Syrian air strip too?
Hey Putin & your boytoy, lil' DonDon, #WeSeeYou.
No one paying attention is fooled.
Don't be so sure that they don't have us fooled. Their meetings and conversations in total privacy and their secret retreats are where decisions are made. The news is just the surface. In other words, we won't know what's really happening.
Where is the strong response from our bold, loud mouthed, braggadocious, Twitterer-in-Chief to Russia's threat to shoot down American planes?
Exactly what I thought.....crickets.
Exactly what I thought.....crickets.
3
Well. Here it is. The moment we've all been waiting for.
It had to happen sooner or later. Nobody crawls into the bear-cage without getting mauled, and no better place for it to happen than Syria.
But that's what happens when you have too many players on the same field intent to start a proxy war, and a U.S. president still learning the ropes.
It looks to be a long cold summer.
It had to happen sooner or later. Nobody crawls into the bear-cage without getting mauled, and no better place for it to happen than Syria.
But that's what happens when you have too many players on the same field intent to start a proxy war, and a U.S. president still learning the ropes.
It looks to be a long cold summer.
1
Ok we've had just about enough of this game, play time is over. Time for Trump and Bannon to go and get some qualified people back in the oval.
Don't let the door hit you gentlemen.
Don't let the door hit you gentlemen.
5
Oh, no! Better lift those sanctions to ease tensions! WhaooooaaaaaoooOOOOooooaoooH!
2
As much as I disagree with Trump, I cannot complain with the decision made in this circumstance. Both Russia and Assad's regime need to know that, just as the United States is hemmed in by both Russia's intervention and political circumstances in the Middle East, they, too, can only go so far in this delicate yet potentially devastating "dance." Assad's regime went too far in this particular circumstance. Perhaps at some point everyone will get tired and will return to talking to each other. Although ISIS may be destroyed as a group holding land and ruling over people in the Middle East, the Syrian Civil War will only be ended through political means, and nobody will get everything they want.
39
What a risible farce. The US shoot down a Syrian airplane after killing dozens of their soldiers in several previous unprovoked attacks and it is the sovereign government of Syria, illegally occupied and threatened by the US & allies for years, which would be going "too far"? Amazing projection, the kind cherry-picked by the partisan NYT.
3
I think maybe Obama could have done this kind of a measured response when Russia first started bombing in Syria to fight "terrorism". At that time Russia was also bombing our allies in Syria, and they might have been forced to bomb only ISIS if Obama had acted. This is a rare example of an improvement under Trump, as long as it does not backfire into WW3....
sovereign is in the eyes of the beholder, sergei.
this dictator inherited the regime from his dad, was not elected, and only controlled 15% of syrian territory and people before the russians put a heavy thumb on the scale in his favor.
Nobody proposes to take sovereign syrian territory. it is just the butcher who does not represent most of his people, and is trying to fix that by killing half of syria with barrel bombs and poison gas..
He is not the Sovereign and Syria should go on without him.
this dictator inherited the regime from his dad, was not elected, and only controlled 15% of syrian territory and people before the russians put a heavy thumb on the scale in his favor.
Nobody proposes to take sovereign syrian territory. it is just the butcher who does not represent most of his people, and is trying to fix that by killing half of syria with barrel bombs and poison gas..
He is not the Sovereign and Syria should go on without him.
So far, this is all talk. But if Russia shoots down a U.S. aircraft over Syria we won't be in Kansas anymore. In Vietnam, American soldiers were killed by Soviet made AK-47's, as well as other Soviet-made arms. In Afghanistan, Mujahideen warriors shot down Soviet aircraft with U.S. made stinger missiles. But in Syria, Russian and U.S. forces are practically head-to-head. This is why having a well-informed, well-measured, serious Commander-in-Chief is so important.
That person left the White House on January 20, 2017.
That person left the White House on January 20, 2017.
51
You can't make this stuff up. Donald Trump worships at the altar of Putinesque authoritarianism, then goes recklessly into Syria as if he's determined to go to war with Russia. I would ask, "What is that man thinking?", except I already know the answer - he isn't.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
13
The US are considered the greatest threat to peace in the world (WIN/Gallup international) for a reason: they are a never ending bully never held accountable of their countless illegal misdeeds and misusing their dangerously bloated military to threaten and aggress, there almost gratuitously killing dozens of foreign soldiers/pilot of a national military while illegally occupying and violating -for years- their sovereignty. This is once again a complete disgrace, which like every other else will be misrepresented/whitewashed by our so-called "free press".
9
Perfect timing for a war! My my my..what a coincidence! There are many people in this country who profit from war and would like nothing more and a war - and those people have purchased our elected officials. Dangerous. Many American people are sick of paying for this and would like that war money spent here..
9
You what the solution is? Get out! We need to get the heck out of Syria, and soon. Let the Russians deal with this mess. If they love Assad so much, then they can fight the jihadists.
9
Both President Eisenhower and later President Kennedy Warned; “Beware Of Military-Industrial Complex”?
5
Those Ruskies will do almost anything to make it look like thy didn't collude with Trump in 2016. This sounds more like propaganda warfare. Trump tells them we're going to launch a missile (that doesn't hit or hurt anything) then they will tell us they're playing 'hard to get' on the phone. Both sides look tough, keep providing arms to the region, and no viable resolution. Besides, who's side is Trump on? Under Trump America has killed more Syrian civilians than ever. With collateral damage like this, who needs allies (or an enemy for that matter)? I don't think Putin and Trump are going to square off over Assad. They're supposed to be collaborating for the "good" in the region. But just like Hitler and Stalin agreed to carve up Poland, nothing good can come from these two fickle lovers.
7
The New York Times should run an article on what 1,790 nuclear warheads would do the the United States. People see to have forgotten how deadly WW III is likely to be.
The most interesting thing in the article is that after Trump's 59 Tomahawk salute in April, Russia didn't suspend the deconflict process. They announced they would.
Putin and his military have a relationship not unlike Trump and his. The military likes its extra attention, the status given by a swaggering chief. But they don't always like the strategy. Putin may be eager to get rid of deconflict, and sucker the US into a quagmire. But his military knows a US-Russia hot fight could spiral badly.
Trump's response matters. He eagerly gives generals control. But nothing will provoke his fury like bro Putin making him look bad. There's a reason to be fearful. Both Russia and the US have titular leaders who see the world as their oyster.
Putin and his military have a relationship not unlike Trump and his. The military likes its extra attention, the status given by a swaggering chief. But they don't always like the strategy. Putin may be eager to get rid of deconflict, and sucker the US into a quagmire. But his military knows a US-Russia hot fight could spiral badly.
Trump's response matters. He eagerly gives generals control. But nothing will provoke his fury like bro Putin making him look bad. There's a reason to be fearful. Both Russia and the US have titular leaders who see the world as their oyster.
1
Maybe Putin is blackmailing Trump. He has information that would impeach Trump. So if Trump doesn't play according to Putin's hand, Putin spills.
As tensions mount domestically and abroad, I am comforted to know the our nation is in the capable hands of Trump & Company. Now hand me that Kool-Aid....
We are living in interesting times.
We are living in interesting times.
5
Interesting times indeed, if you are not a Syrian fighting to rid yourself of Assad and company. I think many are concerned about leaving this kind of flare-up and the long term struggle in Syria in the hands of a Trump administration.
I was being facetious, Jesse V.
All parties supplying weapons there are using the battle field(s) as marketing and R&D showcases.
The parties on the ground being shot and killed are innocents merely trying to scratch out a living in places where they can not afford to or are not allowed to leave.
The parties on the ground doing the shooting and killing are fanatics being paid by or have allegiance to some power hungy wakkos without humanity.
Shooting or bombing someone (anyone with a gun or their own bomb) seems too be the dominant rule of engagement.
It's madness and we'd be much better off walking away to let them work it out.
The parties on the ground being shot and killed are innocents merely trying to scratch out a living in places where they can not afford to or are not allowed to leave.
The parties on the ground doing the shooting and killing are fanatics being paid by or have allegiance to some power hungy wakkos without humanity.
Shooting or bombing someone (anyone with a gun or their own bomb) seems too be the dominant rule of engagement.
It's madness and we'd be much better off walking away to let them work it out.
4
War !!!!!
Playpen of the Oligarchs and the ignoramuses....
Playpen of the Oligarchs and the ignoramuses....
2
World War III...coming soon to a theater near you.
1
I cannot think of a better way than introduce a big diversion to take the heat of Mueller's investigation. "Start a War"!!
3
Right? 'Wag the Dog.'
Geo W was a dumb dumb but at least he had intelligence in the room with him, though self-serving, dishonest, callous and misdirected.
Now we have Trump- Major Dumbie-in-Chief- with NO intelligence or experience in the room with him!! Dangerous! Thank the Republicans!
Now we have Trump- Major Dumbie-in-Chief- with NO intelligence or experience in the room with him!! Dangerous! Thank the Republicans!
2
This could go badly if Putin does not want to back down.
It could go well if Putin realizes that this is not worth war.
Putin is someone who has reporters murdered. But there are no repercussions for murdering a reporter as opposed to repercussions for going to war with the US.
And I am not a Trump supporter.
It could go well if Putin realizes that this is not worth war.
Putin is someone who has reporters murdered. But there are no repercussions for murdering a reporter as opposed to repercussions for going to war with the US.
And I am not a Trump supporter.
49
It could go badly because both Putin and Trump don't know how to back down.
1
I'm reading Masha Gessen's biography of Putin, "Man Without a Face." There are a couple of interesting points that bear on this situation: 1) in some of the interviews that Putin gave to biographers, he purposely portrayed himself as a thug during his younger days, and 2) one of Putin's instructors at a KGB school remarked on his high tolerance for risk, an undesirable quality for an intelligence agent. I don't see Putin backing away easily.
This kind of thing is exactly what happens when you start shooting down other people's jets.
But no matter what happens it will not be the presidents fault. He has delegated his role as far as decision making in this war to the flag ranks.
But no matter what happens it will not be the presidents fault. He has delegated his role as far as decision making in this war to the flag ranks.
OK, let's see: a president of the U.S. who is to a large extent controlled by Moscow vs. Russia continuing to kill civilians in Syria.
What would you like to bet that Trump backs down? Again.
What would you like to bet that Trump backs down? Again.
4
Perhaps the chest puffing and bravado should be limited to those who are willing to send their own son or daughter, husband or wife, brother or sister to carry out the threat. It feels a whole lot like this conflict is being escalated because certain power mongers don't mind sending some one else's loved ones to kill and be killed. But isn't that always the way with these conflicts. . . The thought that a young person will die because men like Trump, Assad, and Putin need more power and money fills me with profound sadness.
25
Dear Mr. McConnell and Mr. Ryan - please get your heads out of the swamp along with your colleagues and recognize that tax reform and ending Obamacare are useless tropes if we are plunged into a wider war. Will you please restrain your child before he breaks something that cannot be replaced?
21
It's ironic that reviled Trump is the person who could broker a resolution to the conflict because he understands Putin and Russia ultimately seek respect.
This incident of an American jet shooting down a Syrian government warplane should not come as a surprise. In fact, it was to be expected since Trump had delegated the conduct of the war to the Pentagon. It was an irresponsible and dangerous decision. Nothing makes the Pentagon and the generals happier than to have a free hand in conducting warfare. Significantly more civilian deaths in Iraq and Syria as a result of US airstrikes. Now, American generals are inviting retaliation from Russia. This may not end well.
4
may want to ask the trump base how they feel about having an illiterate five year old on a permanent tantrum in charge when there is actual, dangerous international brinksmanship underway. the russians are immensely enjoying the benefits of their strategic election manipulation: a superpower severely hobbled by vast incompetence.
5
Perhaps we really should put America first and leave the Middle East entirely. Putin, Assad, Iran, the Saudis...there are no good players in this game.
7
The military line was redundant anyway if you consider how many lines Russia already has to our puppet-in-chief.
2
Trump's "mine's bigger than yours" mentality wants to make sure that HE is the BIGGEST threat to peace and world stability, no matter WHAT the cost! So glad to be "winning" at something again!
9
What will Comrade Trump and his Republican Russia loving compatriots do now?
The commies support the Syrian dictator.
Trump supports the terrorists in Syria.
The commies support the Syrian dictator.
Trump supports the terrorists in Syria.
1
This is when a cool thoughtful mind is needed at the head of this government.
It is sorely lacking, increasing danger to us all.
It is sorely lacking, increasing danger to us all.
5
The Syrian's are using Russian formulated tactics. We just shot down a Russian-built plane. Earlier this year we landed over 50 cruise missiles on a Syrian airport with Russian personnel in close proximity - none of whom were injured - but which delivered a message to the Russians that our weapons systems are so precise that their presence is inconsequential.
If one doesn't look at the total picture - one only sees one side. And lately we have humiliated the Russian's. From the Russian perspective - one must ask, "Is the Russian reaction all that surprising?"
If one doesn't look at the total picture - one only sees one side. And lately we have humiliated the Russian's. From the Russian perspective - one must ask, "Is the Russian reaction all that surprising?"
1
The imprecise Russian weapons will miss New York by ten miles.
Perhaps. But Syria is a client state of Russia in a similar manner that North Korea is to China. As such - one does not act against Syria oblivious to Russia any more than one would act against North Korea oblivious to China.
1
Sorry. But "ten miles" is still considered a precise hit with (God forbid!) nuclear weapons.
Wow. If you had asked me which country America would get into trouble with first, the last country I'd have named would be Russia.
I imagine Moscow is pretty upset on how its ROI in Donald Trump is panning out. He's all tied up in investigations and can't lift sanctions, and he's extremely reckless in foreign policy by delegating far too many situations to our military.
Add to that an alarming shortage of diplomats and a 30% reduction in State's budget, and you have a real hot mess.
Donald Trump promised to make America safe (again). Far from it: on his watch things are going to pieces faster than that arctic shelf is threatening to break off.
I imagine Moscow is pretty upset on how its ROI in Donald Trump is panning out. He's all tied up in investigations and can't lift sanctions, and he's extremely reckless in foreign policy by delegating far too many situations to our military.
Add to that an alarming shortage of diplomats and a 30% reduction in State's budget, and you have a real hot mess.
Donald Trump promised to make America safe (again). Far from it: on his watch things are going to pieces faster than that arctic shelf is threatening to break off.
4
This is a serious situation that could quickly deteriorate if mishandled - or resolve if dealt with skillfully. I sure would feel better at this moment with a Commander In Chief named Hillary rather than Donald, emails or no emails. Doubly so because the conflict is with Trump's sponsor nation.
19
The situation is beyond bizarre and completely out of control. It would certainly seem to be reasonable for American airplanes to defend troops that we are supporting. That's especially since the troops we are defending may well have "American advisers" with them.
But what exactly is the POLICY? Who are we fighting and why? What is our goal, what is victory. Ignoring those questions simply kicks the can down the road. How are we supposed to negotiate with Russia regarding air support if we haven't declared who we are supporting, who is an enemy and WHY?
Trump has got to become President and declare a policy position. Spending his time Tweeting about obstruction of justice instead of foreign policy could just get us in a shooting war with Russia. Where's Tillerson? He seems to be utterly useless!
But what exactly is the POLICY? Who are we fighting and why? What is our goal, what is victory. Ignoring those questions simply kicks the can down the road. How are we supposed to negotiate with Russia regarding air support if we haven't declared who we are supporting, who is an enemy and WHY?
Trump has got to become President and declare a policy position. Spending his time Tweeting about obstruction of justice instead of foreign policy could just get us in a shooting war with Russia. Where's Tillerson? He seems to be utterly useless!
296
Situation bizarre and completely out of control, looks whose President!
The policy is quite clear. Our enemies are Syria, Iraq, and Iran, and we are trying to destroy them. Why are they our enemies? Guess.
If American flyers are fired upon, I do not want anyone looking at a policy, and engaged in a nuanced discussion of appropriate ways of thinking and acting.
I want them to do what they are trained to do.
This is a direct threat made by Russia to us.
But if you must have a policy, here it is:
"It is our policy to support our trained men and women in uniform who do what they are trained to do, and who are carrying out their mission to help other Americans in uniform on the ground. By all means necessary, deal with imminent threats from a foreign power, who aims to prevent you for aiding other fellow Americans in uniform on the ground."
Satisfied?
I do not care about Trump or Tillerson. This is about people far more important (i.e., Americans serving in Syria and fighting the bad guys).
I want them to do what they are trained to do.
This is a direct threat made by Russia to us.
But if you must have a policy, here it is:
"It is our policy to support our trained men and women in uniform who do what they are trained to do, and who are carrying out their mission to help other Americans in uniform on the ground. By all means necessary, deal with imminent threats from a foreign power, who aims to prevent you for aiding other fellow Americans in uniform on the ground."
Satisfied?
I do not care about Trump or Tillerson. This is about people far more important (i.e., Americans serving in Syria and fighting the bad guys).
1
I still resent the idea that Obama was weak. If the desire to cease and desist war-mongering is weakness, then I'm all for weakness.
64
Are we at war with Eastasia or Eurasia this week?
7
Neither. We're still at war with ourselves.
1
Brilliant response
Oceania was at war with Eastasia; Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.
Is anyone in charge of the US government? More troops for Afganistan, North Korean missile launches, confict with the Russians in Syria, Saudi Arabia vs. Quatar, China claiming the whole south Asian sea. Is anyone setting policy, or is this administration simply unable to govern?
38
I think they are all too busy selling their own products to their global customers or finding the right lawyer for whatever corrupt hobby of theirs caught the eye of someone paid to look like they care about justice. It's all gotten fairly grotesque. We (the people) probably need to do something.
The latter, it is pretty clear.
I think I saw something about Trump delegating authority to the Pentagon last week. May need to call them and ask. Donald has a tee time, so...
Trump, who during the campaign claimed to "know more than the generals", publicly announced he was ceding all military decisions to those generals and military leaders. The result has been a more aggressive bombing campaign and other unilateral combat decisions made across the board without the civilian oversight once thought integral to our democracy. Will those generals continue to push the security envelope ever closer to Russia's strategic interests? Is anyone in Washington even paying attention? Moscow has many effective tools stationed in Syria to shake Trump out of his Twitter dreams.
17
You know what made FDR a great wartime president? He let his generals fight the war. That's what they're trained to do. And a smart Commander in Chief knows that. I'd rather have it that way than have a neighborhood organizer acting as Micromanager in Chief...
You do realize the sign of being a good Manager is knowing how to pick a good staff, don't you?
Obama picked an experienced and intelligent staff.
Trump just handed the ball over, because he didn't have a clue.
Obama picked an experienced and intelligent staff.
Trump just handed the ball over, because he didn't have a clue.
3
Luckily, our president knows more than the generals. He told us so himself.
36
Putin's every move is on behalf and for Russia. The election meddling in America and Europe, the Crimean annexation, the murder of journalists and those in opposition, purported collusion with the Trump administration and the intervention in Syria all support Putin's goals of world domination. Threatening to shoot down US warplanes is a strategic move by Putin to further thwart America's interests in the Middle East.
I guess you could say that Putin is on Russia's side. We are on whose side?
This is all an orchestration to take the focus off the Russia thing.
It looks, finally, like our top commanders, namely Gens. Mattis and Dunford, are setting down realistic markers for all military activities in which we become involved. What a welcome change, and with it, a shift in policies, and yet they both warn not to be satisfied with short term success against ISIS and other non-state actors.
In a wise and self deprecating remark this morning to the National Press Club, Gen. Dunford noted that experience and confidence often develop in proportional opposites. The more you get, the less confident you may become in assessing future threats. I can live with that, because it is the truth. Welcome to our new leadership.
What a refreshing change in military leadership we have in this new administration! Truth and humility beat ego anytime, in my opinion.
In a wise and self deprecating remark this morning to the National Press Club, Gen. Dunford noted that experience and confidence often develop in proportional opposites. The more you get, the less confident you may become in assessing future threats. I can live with that, because it is the truth. Welcome to our new leadership.
What a refreshing change in military leadership we have in this new administration! Truth and humility beat ego anytime, in my opinion.
1
It makes it all worth it.
I don't get it. Are we in cahoots with Russia or up against Russia?? Or, are we supposed to believe we're only in cahoots as it applies to trump running for president, but now that he is president, we're enemies?
5
Probably still in cahoots with Russia.
This serves as a great distraction from the Federal Investigation into Trump's dealings, doesn't it?
This serves as a great distraction from the Federal Investigation into Trump's dealings, doesn't it?
2
There is a scenario where Russia benefits from extreme political disarray in the West, potentially caused by short-sightedness of individuals when they allegedly agreed to help or non-obstruct Russian agents meddling in the 2016 election. That is still aligned with Russia being aggressive to the USA in Syria. So, it is not necessarily a conflicting situation.
Are we sure the pilot of the Syrian jet was not Russian? Wouldn't be the first time Russian aviators have flown under another flag...
What difference does this make? This was a Syrian Army plane. Could be flown by Tom Cruise - who cares? Even if we don't like it, the Syrian government of Assad is the only legitimate one there.
2
Neither the United States or Russia belong in Syria. Both nations use Syria for passive-agressive military actions against each other while Syrians die.
7
Too bad you forget that Russia was actually invited into Syria by Assad.
3
You forget who is on Syria's border. That is why we are in Syria.
1
Good for us! Another war! Keep he factories humming, the union workers working, and the fat cat factory owners in caviar and yachts. Win-win, except for the folks who fight and die. But there aren't that many....!
4
Trump is not acting as Commander in Chief so why should the Soviets rely on a hotline to him? He's delegated defense decisions to Mattis and the generals, and Tillerson isn't working will a full deck (not fully staffed). We're just being aggressors with no useful communication channels to broker peace. And the point is?... no idea...
2
So when it comes to Syria we're on Iran's side?
5
No, no, no. We are on ISIS side. And ISIS is on...
Yes, because protecting our troops' well-being clearly puts us on the side of the Ayatollah...
This is quite a brilliant, crazy move.
Everything we do will be second guessed, and nothing will produce the kind of success Pentagon says it wants: "swift and decisive." Nothing about Afghanistan, Iraq, or Syria suggests "swift and decisive" is possible.
If we don't respond, or call for talks and such, we look weak not just within the country, but to the buffer states that Putin wants to scare (Ukraine, Baltics, Poland, Romania, Hungary). And weak to our NATO allies, who are engaged in low intensity, under the radar sulking and grousing about not having their hands held and subsidized by American taxpayers. They usually are heroically willing to fight to the last American. Note that most of these allies sent very few combatants to help us out in Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are being check mated. This is not about Trump (who I think stands for everything deplorable), it is about a country that I love. No two bit power should be allowed to humiliate us like this.
Shoot me down? No, we shoot you down.
I do not advocate for pulling out of Syria, or trying to make nice. I advocate for everything that will make Putin squirm (such as put everything Russian on a no-fly zone, freeze out all Russian banks, and seize all assets in the west paid for by questionable Russian money, wreak havoc on their web-based vulnerabilities, quarantine them in the Mediterranean, send viruses to stop their energy industry). And then some. Hope we began this already.
Kalidan
Everything we do will be second guessed, and nothing will produce the kind of success Pentagon says it wants: "swift and decisive." Nothing about Afghanistan, Iraq, or Syria suggests "swift and decisive" is possible.
If we don't respond, or call for talks and such, we look weak not just within the country, but to the buffer states that Putin wants to scare (Ukraine, Baltics, Poland, Romania, Hungary). And weak to our NATO allies, who are engaged in low intensity, under the radar sulking and grousing about not having their hands held and subsidized by American taxpayers. They usually are heroically willing to fight to the last American. Note that most of these allies sent very few combatants to help us out in Afghanistan and Iraq.
We are being check mated. This is not about Trump (who I think stands for everything deplorable), it is about a country that I love. No two bit power should be allowed to humiliate us like this.
Shoot me down? No, we shoot you down.
I do not advocate for pulling out of Syria, or trying to make nice. I advocate for everything that will make Putin squirm (such as put everything Russian on a no-fly zone, freeze out all Russian banks, and seize all assets in the west paid for by questionable Russian money, wreak havoc on their web-based vulnerabilities, quarantine them in the Mediterranean, send viruses to stop their energy industry). And then some. Hope we began this already.
Kalidan
1
That would probably lead to you, your family and everyone you know getting killed.
1
I agree with you and would add a bit of info: Those so called 'buffer states' were basically independent before ww2 - After the surrender of Germany the allies had control of these small, vulnerable but geographically important countries ... Truman pulled our troops pretty quickly despite Churchill imploring him to remain ... The Russians moved in quickly and they became 'satellites' of the U.S.S.R. until it's breakup - Make no mistake, in Putin's mind these countries belong to Russia, for the same reason that Imperial Russia craved them: For a major expansion of usable sea ports, necessary for a country the size of Russia with a relatively small number of 12 month usable ports ... Of course Putin plays to fear and paranoia in his country, calling these countries an extension of 'the west'. They choose to be in NATO because they are concerned that Russia will take them over like what happened to Ukraine.
2
We will come out of World War III even stronger. But for the moment, there is no reason to rebuild New York's subways, or New York for that matter, since it will be abandoned for a thousand years. Victory is coming! Hail Victory!
This country had better get a genuine government and experienced leaders in place soon before we are faced with a real crisis that no one now in office is prepared to handle. Who's going to deal with this escalating Syria thing? Little boy Kushner? The clock is running . . .
11
ISIS has become the world's premier agent provocateur with its nefarious backers and their insidious intentions. We are witnessing the havoc created by local attacks, the testing of alliances, the collusion of strange bedfellows, and the resurgence of old "cold war" mentalities.
This is not a good time to have a "Tweeter in Chief" who thinks this is about "bluffing" and "deals". We are a great nation but, where ISIS is concerned, we must be thoughtfully reminded that there is no greater enemy than one who has nothing to lose.
This is not a good time to have a "Tweeter in Chief" who thinks this is about "bluffing" and "deals". We are a great nation but, where ISIS is concerned, we must be thoughtfully reminded that there is no greater enemy than one who has nothing to lose.
1
Can you please clarify what it means that a Gmail account is used as backup? What's the source and context of that item?
1
Aren't we all just asking the same question: How will this affect Trump's hotels?
Great. Just great.
4
Round up the armada.
No worries. The Russians truly do not want a head to head with us and we do not either. The Russian response was standard issue.
5
If this careless and incompetent president and his administration don't get us into World War III, it will be a miracle.
And good luck to us, because they've managed to alienate many of our allies.
And good luck to us, because they've managed to alienate many of our allies.
6
Anybody still worried about NATO not paying up now???
2
We cannot count on Europe fighting our wars for us.
1
@Ferdinant
You need to read NATO Article 5.
You need to read NATO Article 5.
1
There are clearly two many cooks in this kitchen and clearly no strategy or end game on the part of the US so what are the options. Mr. Putin believes that getting rid of Assad would create more de-stabilization in the region and would be to the advantage of ISIS. I am not sure I disagree entirely but unless Assad would agree to form some kind of coalition government with the Free Syrian Army and the Kurds which he should have done in 2011 it is doubtful the war will end. Does the US have a strategy here?
" “We are going to continue to conduct operations throughout Syria, providing air support for coalition and partnered forces on the ground,” the spokesman, Col. Ryan Dillon, said in a telephone interview from Baghdad"
Could Col.Dillon or the American political leadership please tell us Exactly who the Coalition is and especially the Partnered Forces they are using and supporting so that this terrible Civil War and the casualties it has caused and continues to cause continues?
There is no doubt that this "Civil War" would have ended Years ago if not for supporting what is now mostly a sectarian Religious War being waged by Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Muslim nations who want to wipe out Shia Nations and their people.
As in Yemen...Stop helping Saudi Religious Warfare against their Shia "infidels"
Could Col.Dillon or the American political leadership please tell us Exactly who the Coalition is and especially the Partnered Forces they are using and supporting so that this terrible Civil War and the casualties it has caused and continues to cause continues?
There is no doubt that this "Civil War" would have ended Years ago if not for supporting what is now mostly a sectarian Religious War being waged by Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Muslim nations who want to wipe out Shia Nations and their people.
As in Yemen...Stop helping Saudi Religious Warfare against their Shia "infidels"
1
Good thing we haven't squandered the goodwill that we have enjoyed with the rest of the civilized world. I'm sure the leaders and general public of Germany, France, the UK, China and others are all confident of US leadership and motives.
4
I heard with great trepidation that trump turned over strategic and tactical decisions to the Pentagon. I imagine this is because trump can't concentrate enough to learn details of any subject.
If indeed the military is making the decisions we are bound for war. If trump is making the military decisions we are bound for war. It's a war-war situation.
If indeed the military is making the decisions we are bound for war. If trump is making the military decisions we are bound for war. It's a war-war situation.
2
This may compel clarity: if Trump is forced into saying Russia is an enemy of the U.S., that would be good for our nation.
1
As I recall, Israel, Iran, Syria, Russia, and the United States have all fired mislles at targets in Syria. What are the chances of an accidental collision?
Irony.
Well now the plot thickens. We have two enormous egos facing each other in Trump and Putin. Neither are real statesmen. This has potential for disaster.
1
" Colonel Dillon said the American-led coalition was also prepared to continue using the hotline, which consists of phone calls between the United States’ Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar"
But your President has personally supported Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE and Yemen boycott and hostilities against Qatar...
So why should Qatar even let U.S Forces in the Middle East use that airfield anymore? Or just another case of eating your cake and everyone else's as well?
But your President has personally supported Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE and Yemen boycott and hostilities against Qatar...
So why should Qatar even let U.S Forces in the Middle East use that airfield anymore? Or just another case of eating your cake and everyone else's as well?
Don't call him my president, please.
As for cake, he's a large man, bloated even, and he needs cake: his, yours, mine. With extra frosting.
As for cake, he's a large man, bloated even, and he needs cake: his, yours, mine. With extra frosting.
It is a common interest of Putin and Trump to engage in a "low intensity" conflict to deflect from the difficult challenges each face at home.
Hopefully, one of them is smart and the other is a coward so this will not escalate to a full blown war.
Hopefully, one of them is smart and the other is a coward so this will not escalate to a full blown war.
5
Trump portrayed himself as such a tough guy during the campaign. He was also obsequious to Putin, to an embarrassing degree.
Now comes the test, and the downside of all that bragging. What will Trump do? He can either knuckle under to the Russians, or belly-up to a full scale war with them, dragging NATO along with him (remember article 5, that Trump was so reluctant to endorse?)
This is what comes of playing President, rather than being one. The Bankruptcy King has found himself in a pickle he can’t bluster his way out of.
Now comes the test, and the downside of all that bragging. What will Trump do? He can either knuckle under to the Russians, or belly-up to a full scale war with them, dragging NATO along with him (remember article 5, that Trump was so reluctant to endorse?)
This is what comes of playing President, rather than being one. The Bankruptcy King has found himself in a pickle he can’t bluster his way out of.
Just as soon as Putin tells djt how to respond our 'best president that ever was, is or will be', will tweet out a message letting us lowly citizens know how he feels on the shoot down. But, of course, by the following day our tweeting twit president will send out something totally opposite. The American pilot can only hope the Russians don't tell their/our puppet president to have said pilot dragged before a court-martial.
1
It certainly won't help to have a thoughtless, feckless commander-in-chief who would just as soon abdicate all tough decisions to "his" generals.
1
Is this how WW III will start?
Don't you know? -- it started as soon as Trump got into the White House.
2
President Trump announces "It's Stanley Kubrick Week" at the White House! Tonight at 930 pm, a screening of "Dr. Strangelove" on the the south lawn. Free hazmat suits for the first 100 people who can verify that they were born in Hawaii! Smile, Smile...Smile...
First Russia gets the guy elected, and now they complain about Trump. Sheesh!
1
Let's get ready to rumble !
Do you have a fallout shelter?
2
Though very likely an empty threat aimed more for domestic consumption, this Russian warning combined with the shoot-down of a Syrian warplane and, reportedly, Iranian missiles fired into Syria make for a highly volatile situation in this region. The forces fighting against the Islamic State also include local armed factions who often are at odds with each other. Even a single misstep by any of these actors could result in a much larger conflict with devastating effects. Talks among these disparate players leading to a permanent political solution should begin before a more serious incident occurs. A powder keg is not a good place to have fire-side chat.
45
I have two sons in the armed services (Army Ranger and Airman) are you willing to participate in a game of Russian Roulette ? I am not !
1
It really does sound like it's for domestic consumption. The worst case description of this is situation is that Russian planes protected by Russian missile systems with Russian advisers in close proximity have been easy bested by 20 year old American fighter-bombers.
Putin really is running a Potemkin Village and he does not want it exposed that Russian air power is decades behind. These are empty threats to the extent we're talking tete-a-tetes in Syrian air space. Russia has neither the resources, personnel or the aircraft to manage the sky like the United States.
Putin knows this, but doesn't want anyone else to know this, especially his own people. He can threaten American air power all he wants, but if he challenges the US he will simply lose what few modern air planes he can keep flying and cost Syria whatever it has left of an air force.
Putin really is running a Potemkin Village and he does not want it exposed that Russian air power is decades behind. These are empty threats to the extent we're talking tete-a-tetes in Syrian air space. Russia has neither the resources, personnel or the aircraft to manage the sky like the United States.
Putin knows this, but doesn't want anyone else to know this, especially his own people. He can threaten American air power all he wants, but if he challenges the US he will simply lose what few modern air planes he can keep flying and cost Syria whatever it has left of an air force.
It's an impossible mess and will be for a long time. The 'Arab Spring' stopped short of deposing Assad and left us with this has come to be now.
There is no solution beyond helping the Syrian people for humanitarian reasons.
There is no solution beyond helping the Syrian people for humanitarian reasons.
This is why having a baby-man as commander in chief is so dangerous for the US. There are few, if any, adults in the room at the white house, we could be in serious trouble here. Putin knows that.
32
Russia is bombing civilians trying to root out jihadists. The US shoots down a Russian jet to defend jihadists hiding out among civilians. The US goal is to overthrow Assad. The Russian goal is to prop up Assad's sorry regime.
2
No Russian jet was shot down there, maybe re-read the article. Then the US goal in Syria is to prop up the meddling of their nauseous regional allies made of dictatorships bankrolling most of the Salafist/Wahhabi terrorism worldwide: Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey. There is not any higher moral ground on the US side: quite the contrary actually.
2
Can't do much for the Russian brand if we start shooting down Russian planes and SAM missiles. Economically, Russia can't really afford to actually use its air force.
Not only can't Russian afford to lose its most capable fighter, the SU-35 which is short supply but our F-22 Raptor and even the older F 15c are more than a match for it. While Syria is a Russian client state how much is Russia willing to risk in hardware and prestige for a much diminished regime and a wrecked country?
Not only can't Russian afford to lose its most capable fighter, the SU-35 which is short supply but our F-22 Raptor and even the older F 15c are more than a match for it. While Syria is a Russian client state how much is Russia willing to risk in hardware and prestige for a much diminished regime and a wrecked country?
8
So you commenter are saying the USA should be shooting down Russian airplanes, and starting a war with Russia. The reality is the USA became an enemy of the US Constitution when Congress passed law (Syria Train and Equip Program) to arm and pay jihadists to establish religious law in Syria.
2
Another one wishing WW3... The US are considered the biggest threat to peace in the world (WIN/Gallup International): that's all the "prestige" they have.
1
No another one wishing not to repeat Munich. Russia is poor with an over bloated military that is under equipped and badly trained but with an over bloated geopolitical wish list. If they insist, Syria would be a very good place to remind Russia what their limits are.