they are gonna have to bring back the Hat makers jobs. those jobs had a way of culling the herd. i am sure the benefactors that will own these corporations will make sure the misplaced workers can find work. the march of human progress and all. there have been a ton of occupations that are no longer. yet there seems to be more people each year. so these people that keep losing all their jobs keep multiplying. HMMM yes interesting times indeed.
3
Why don't these technology companies and corporations just go and kill us all? It's pretty obvious we're just in the way in any event.
48
Amazon kills and maimes it's workers just like Walmart. Enough of the 1%ers and greed and selfishness. People not profits. Socialism not austerity. See the civilized world not the selfish greedy neanderthal Americans.
23
In the mean time the human being continue to product more and more babies day after day......
51
I can see it now. First monitoring and squeezing every ounce of juice from their employees, then leveraging cost from suppliers so they are forced to make crappier products and squeeze their employees, then a restriction of the variety of products in stores, then the fully mechanized9 (schizoid) shopping experience--all under the banner of "customer service." These giant companies are monopolistic malignancies with no social conscience or ethical compunctions.
64
This is some nerds fantasy and Bezos downfall. Drones are NOT going to carry 50 -100 lbs of food to my home unless i have a giant yard...most of the population live in urban apt buildings. I like to see what ingredients are in the food. As far as produce is concerned Bezos is again, dead in the water. Farmers markets are blooming! Not only are they fun, interactive with neighbors but you can talk directly with the farmer, or peruse local artisan crafters and live performers, not that crappy MUZAK ! BUT, whats most insidious is "face technology "... are you kidding?! I won't come within a mile of a store that spies on me and gabs every bit of info!!! ARE YOU CRAZY? Lets talk cashiers because I was one in college and it helped pay for my books and food at least. I'm a regular at WF in Maui and the staff struggle to meet the corporate demands. I get to know everyone by name and they know me. Thats worth a million bucks! I write out "commendation cards " for certain cashiers and management gives them "points" and $50 bonus... Lack of human interaction is turning everyone into robots. This is another attempt by the corporate elite to monopolize everything . Bring back the mom & pop corner store!
131
If only we could have a government that could plan twenty years out, not just the next election cycle! Clearly, we need universal health care, subsidized housing, and unemployment to be expanded as well as increased taxes on corporations and the wealthy. We--the American worker-- are essentially subsidizing our own unemployment and impoverishment. There should be also a disruption tax. When you displace millions of workers to pump up your bottom line for a small group of shareholders you should not be able to write this off on your taxes and make even more cash. You are asking for pitchforks and platitudes don't cut it. Not even sure about the environmental impact of replacing human workers with metal and computer. Another issue is that with increasing dehumanization of the economy, you also get mediocrity and no one at the other end who can actually fix or individualize anything. Crap world for all--maybe the ultimate with be an AI President who can neither fix nor destroy anything. Purely ornamental. There is no government. No people. Only Corporations. Oy!
69
This sounds great for businesses and everyone that likes this technology. I tried shopping at Walmart twice and each was a FAIL. Once was to purchase an item that was restored as in stock in the location I went to but nobody had a clue how to find it. The serving time was after work...I work overnight, and the last thing I want to do is wait in long lines to buy something afterwards. Walmart had about 25 lines for cashier's, but NONE OF THEM WERE OPEN!
The lines stretched over a hundred yards full of customers waiting to use the automated- or should I say "do it yourself" checkout. Why the hell should I do it myself, I don't work here! Will I get an employee discount? Placed the items at the nearest place they didn't belong and left. I'm sure the recovery and restocking will be done by a real employee though.
McDonalds is another story. The closest one to my house was remind we left in the past month and loo and behold..."do it yourself ordering". Okay , so I have to use the same touchscreen that I clearly saw that lady just use after she picked her nose? Goodbye. Left and went to Checkers screws the end street where a real person took my order. Their fries tasted better than so be McDonalds to me that day. Maybe it was just in my mind, but I haven't been back to McDonalds since.
I guess Walmart and Amazon use the strategy that they will get so big that people won't have a choice and will just shop there. But I bet you I won't! No thanks.
The lines stretched over a hundred yards full of customers waiting to use the automated- or should I say "do it yourself" checkout. Why the hell should I do it myself, I don't work here! Will I get an employee discount? Placed the items at the nearest place they didn't belong and left. I'm sure the recovery and restocking will be done by a real employee though.
McDonalds is another story. The closest one to my house was remind we left in the past month and loo and behold..."do it yourself ordering". Okay , so I have to use the same touchscreen that I clearly saw that lady just use after she picked her nose? Goodbye. Left and went to Checkers screws the end street where a real person took my order. Their fries tasted better than so be McDonalds to me that day. Maybe it was just in my mind, but I haven't been back to McDonalds since.
I guess Walmart and Amazon use the strategy that they will get so big that people won't have a choice and will just shop there. But I bet you I won't! No thanks.
54
My local Stop n' Shop has just put in a bank of self checkout machines, but I also refuse to use them. I enjoy the little bit of chatter with the cashier and bagger and I always try and make their day a little brighter since I know their friendliness (usually) makes my day a bit better. I would hate to live in a society that is completely automated without face to face interaction. How devoid of humanness that would be.
67
This will quickly turn into another example of the "velvet rope" economy. Rich people will have highly trained waiters, servers and sommeliers at their beck and call, while the rest of us make do with swiping an iPad that doesn't let us explain special menu needs. We will have long and frustrating retail experiences, where if the system goes wrong, we'll have no way to get our money back or the services we asked for The rich will have real people eager to deal with their problems.
As we all discovered with automated telephone customer services, there is no upside to automation. The work is outsources to us, but in return we get a crappier, more frustrating experience.
As we all discovered with automated telephone customer services, there is no upside to automation. The work is outsources to us, but in return we get a crappier, more frustrating experience.
73
I was teaching high school and told my kids this years ago (not to steal your thunder). The writing has been on the wall for a long time. I had no illusions about American corporate employers. They felt no "loyalty" to their employees. They did not appear on the "asset" side of their accounting. They simply could not figure out a way to do business without them - now they see the possibilities.
No (or greatly reduced) HR departments, no "management" headaches, no scheduling, no labor or discrimination laws, no OSHA, no vacations, no wage/hour headaches, no calling in sick, no training costs, no quitting, no sexual harassment problems, no hiring/firing hassles, no raises or bonuses to consider, no shift incentives. Machines - what they always dreamed of as the perfect employee.
Great in the short haul, huh? But as store by store, retail place by grocery store, bank by auto parts place, box store by momnpop (oops - long gone), fast food joint by road gang, agricultural employer by manufacturer, homebuilder and contractor, find amazing ways to replace people by machines, we're in for a rude awakening.
Millions of unemployed with no jobs to offer them. No useful way to spend the day. Can't all be surgeons (machines will probably do a lot of that, anyway). Just let the machines make the money and make the goods and delivered them straight to us.
Lookin' forward to it? If not, we need to make a long range plan for the good of us all - NOW.
No (or greatly reduced) HR departments, no "management" headaches, no scheduling, no labor or discrimination laws, no OSHA, no vacations, no wage/hour headaches, no calling in sick, no training costs, no quitting, no sexual harassment problems, no hiring/firing hassles, no raises or bonuses to consider, no shift incentives. Machines - what they always dreamed of as the perfect employee.
Great in the short haul, huh? But as store by store, retail place by grocery store, bank by auto parts place, box store by momnpop (oops - long gone), fast food joint by road gang, agricultural employer by manufacturer, homebuilder and contractor, find amazing ways to replace people by machines, we're in for a rude awakening.
Millions of unemployed with no jobs to offer them. No useful way to spend the day. Can't all be surgeons (machines will probably do a lot of that, anyway). Just let the machines make the money and make the goods and delivered them straight to us.
Lookin' forward to it? If not, we need to make a long range plan for the good of us all - NOW.
59
If I ever walk into a store that uses facial recognition to identify me, I will immediately turn around, leave and never come back. And I sure as hell don't want some software-driven robot picking out my produce or other groceries for me. I'm good at shopping and I like the people who work in the stores where I shop.
90
I believe a parallel experience in grocery retail may illustrate what really will happen to grocery employees: the advent of self-scanning.
When self-scanners first appeared, they were used by early adopters and shunned by almost every other kind of shopper, who didn't trust their accuracy or just didn't want to forego seeing a cashier run their items to a waiting bagger. But over time, customers began to gravitate to self-scanning because once mastered, it is a process that does save time.
These days, self-scan lanes are ubiquitous and crowded, Most of the time, customers use them for a short shopping list -- but not always. Meantime, cashiers remain busy and in service-oriented positions. In other words, self-scanning was another tool for retailers, not the holy grail that will end up with cashiers being cashiered. Consumers appear to want both, for what their particular needs might be on any given day.
I suspect the same evolution will emerge with all the new technology now available to "read" items, improve home delivery and online shopping. But a large segment of the population will also continue to do traditional grocery shopping, if for no other reason than to thump the cantaloupes and look over the fresh meat case.
Seen from that perspective, this article presents a somewhat zero sum future, when tech pushes out not just wage earners but smart shoppers who've built up a lifetime of experience of their food needs by actua.lly heading to market
When self-scanners first appeared, they were used by early adopters and shunned by almost every other kind of shopper, who didn't trust their accuracy or just didn't want to forego seeing a cashier run their items to a waiting bagger. But over time, customers began to gravitate to self-scanning because once mastered, it is a process that does save time.
These days, self-scan lanes are ubiquitous and crowded, Most of the time, customers use them for a short shopping list -- but not always. Meantime, cashiers remain busy and in service-oriented positions. In other words, self-scanning was another tool for retailers, not the holy grail that will end up with cashiers being cashiered. Consumers appear to want both, for what their particular needs might be on any given day.
I suspect the same evolution will emerge with all the new technology now available to "read" items, improve home delivery and online shopping. But a large segment of the population will also continue to do traditional grocery shopping, if for no other reason than to thump the cantaloupes and look over the fresh meat case.
Seen from that perspective, this article presents a somewhat zero sum future, when tech pushes out not just wage earners but smart shoppers who've built up a lifetime of experience of their food needs by actua.lly heading to market
25
Idle hands are the Devils workshop. The future is woefully mistaken if it doesn't believe that old saying. You can expect substance abuse and mischief of all kinds to grow as you automate jobs, create unemployment and enrich the owners of robots and employee - free companies. Yes there will be new robot building jobs, but thats not the same skill level as cashier and stockboy. How would YOU feel if your job were replaced by a robot?
33
I have enough problems shopping on line. There is no "touchy feely". Tell me a shirt is made of thus and so material? Not a clue. Tell me a size -- well not really,. How is it cut. Shoes are never "sized" properly. I will not buy a hammer or screwdriver without holding it in my hand. Now you expect me to buy food from some unseen machine? Not on a bet.
39
C'mon, Amazon! You think you are all Brave New Worldy, New Agey with this high tech food acquisition system. Why not go all the way? We eat to fuel our human bodies. How about a delivery system where I swipe my personal card at a human fuel station, stand on a marker, open my mouth, insert the nozzle (with single-use cover, of course) & receive the calories and nutrients that I pre-order (and pre-pay), whether 1 "meal" at a time, or even for the day (more efficient).
All the time we waste shopping, checking out, schlepping, preparing, cooking, eating and sharing will be saved for some higher purpose. Let me know when you figure out what that is.
All the time we waste shopping, checking out, schlepping, preparing, cooking, eating and sharing will be saved for some higher purpose. Let me know when you figure out what that is.
55
Give me a warm body, a smiling face and a sincere hello any day of the week and I'll take it. I never use automated checkout at my local supermarkets so why would I use Amazon's planned digimarkets? I wonder how much money does Jeff Bezos need in his personal piggy bank to satisfy him? Will he be happy to see that no one is working anymore and will no longer have the means to buy anything? He will be shooting himself in the foot.
37
The short and long term answer is to pull it out and let it splatter against the wall.
5
Techophilia is a disease.
22
tell your Echo what you need,"
............for those of you who still live in the echo chamber. For the rest of the folks, be careful for what you wish, and for everyone else, "may you live in interesting times"
Over the years I have warned people at my local bank to keep looking for jobs because automation is taking over. When I first started banking at that branch 40 years ago, the counter was "cluttered: with people, now 1 person, 2 ATMs inside and"bankers" at desks. soon they will all be gone.
............for those of you who still live in the echo chamber. For the rest of the folks, be careful for what you wish, and for everyone else, "may you live in interesting times"
Over the years I have warned people at my local bank to keep looking for jobs because automation is taking over. When I first started banking at that branch 40 years ago, the counter was "cluttered: with people, now 1 person, 2 ATMs inside and"bankers" at desks. soon they will all be gone.
14
"You wave your phone in front of anything you want to buy, then walk out"
Sounds suspiciously like the 'paperless office'.......bada bing bada boom
Sounds suspiciously like the 'paperless office'.......bada bing bada boom
12
One day there will be a massive electrical storm that will create havoc with computers. Then the fun will begin. Apart from this, can someone please tell me, what the small number of billionaires are going to do with their money when they die?
33
Couldn't a robot have written this article?
26
I thank the Gods for Trader Joe's.
12
That opening paragraph sounds awful.
7
I hate the idea. Most people I know would love a more farm to table store with lots of friendly interaction. We have become so isolated and lonely. I have not had much luck buying any food items of Amazon. They put small items in large boxes...why...kill a tree for 3 tooth brushes?
22
Our "Brave New World"
isn't so wonderful.
I don't want to lose grocery
stores filled up with diverse
populations...my local
Pavillions in LA hires special
needs cashiers & helpers who
are lovely...the fun of just looking at all
our choices....being a part of the
community.....
Note to self: go to the
stores before they disappear.
isn't so wonderful.
I don't want to lose grocery
stores filled up with diverse
populations...my local
Pavillions in LA hires special
needs cashiers & helpers who
are lovely...the fun of just looking at all
our choices....being a part of the
community.....
Note to self: go to the
stores before they disappear.
18
Boycott! I thought Trumpet was creating jobs?! Guess not! People not profits. Socialism not austerity.
Question. If robots and computers do all the jobs, then how are the humans supposed to buy anything without money or jobs?! They can steal it though. Common sense.
No way! I don't ever want any corporation or 1%er or Republican'ts to ever know my name, what I am buying, nor anything else no matter what! Privacy! Pay all in cash, and stay anonymous and private no matter what. Benjamin Franklin said it best, paraphrase "Those who give up liberty for security, deserve neither."
Question. If robots and computers do all the jobs, then how are the humans supposed to buy anything without money or jobs?! They can steal it though. Common sense.
No way! I don't ever want any corporation or 1%er or Republican'ts to ever know my name, what I am buying, nor anything else no matter what! Privacy! Pay all in cash, and stay anonymous and private no matter what. Benjamin Franklin said it best, paraphrase "Those who give up liberty for security, deserve neither."
13
I don"t see a huge change in the labor end of things. It has been years since the Meier and Remke-Biggs supermarket chains have had more than 1-2 cashiers on duty. There are multiple lines of self-checkout instead, including the kind that have space for you to bag your own large order. Only Kroeger and Whole Foods still have mostly cashiers. Here's the thing: A Kroeger job is a good one thanks to a part-timers' union that Whole Foods has kept out of its stores here in Ohio. Kroeger has employees for decades - Whole Foods has so much turnover you rarely see the same cashiers more than a couple of times. It's simply a lousy place to work with terrible jobs that people here take until there are openings at Kroeger. Amazon taking over Whole Foods is not bringing some labor paradise to an end,as many commenters here have written.
15
Heck, I won't even use the self check out at the library. It isn't scary, is it just not the way I am interesting in living.
Bezos will make money; there are zillions of people who will aspire to shop at a Whole Foods (which is already a sad replication of the hippy natural food stores they bought out). But they will get more and more tech until they are replaced by the next new thing-- probably hippy natural food stores.
Bezos will make money; there are zillions of people who will aspire to shop at a Whole Foods (which is already a sad replication of the hippy natural food stores they bought out). But they will get more and more tech until they are replaced by the next new thing-- probably hippy natural food stores.
75
I was at the grocery store yesterday and asked the human produce guy if the watermelons were sweet. "Not yet," he replied. "In another week or so after the hot weather they'll be much sweeter. Try the cantaloupe instead." Hard to understand how that kind of interaction will be replaced by a robot or a phone scan.
157
Boycott and hit em where it hurts!
Without humans working, you can steal things but never buy them. Machines and computers will never work. Who are you gone complain to when the computers and machines mess up, and guaranteed, they will! Sounds a lot like The Terminator. People not profits. Socialism not austerity. Regulations and tax the rich out of existence!
Without humans working, you can steal things but never buy them. Machines and computers will never work. Who are you gone complain to when the computers and machines mess up, and guaranteed, they will! Sounds a lot like The Terminator. People not profits. Socialism not austerity. Regulations and tax the rich out of existence!
27
Interesting that the day after I read Jeff Bezos's request for "advice" on philanthropic ideas for all his money, he buys the gold-star grocer in the US.
We have shopped at Whole Foods more often than I wish because it is the closest one to our house - so out of laziness. I can promise you that will change now that the profits will be going to JB. I have always felt somewhat guilty shopping there - the staff there is always so kind and I am assuming they cannot afford to buy their groceries there, or they sacrifice everything in order to do so. It is just a money making game for Jeff Bezos and it is a life and a living for those employees. I don't personally know anyone who has worked at Amazon but it sounds like he would not win a "Best Places to Work" award. Maybe he should focus on treating his employees the way he would wish to be treated rather than seeking new places to send that money. I am sure the Whole Foods employees are frightened. I am frightened of this guy too... I am done sending him my money.
We have shopped at Whole Foods more often than I wish because it is the closest one to our house - so out of laziness. I can promise you that will change now that the profits will be going to JB. I have always felt somewhat guilty shopping there - the staff there is always so kind and I am assuming they cannot afford to buy their groceries there, or they sacrifice everything in order to do so. It is just a money making game for Jeff Bezos and it is a life and a living for those employees. I don't personally know anyone who has worked at Amazon but it sounds like he would not win a "Best Places to Work" award. Maybe he should focus on treating his employees the way he would wish to be treated rather than seeking new places to send that money. I am sure the Whole Foods employees are frightened. I am frightened of this guy too... I am done sending him my money.
52
Trump can be replaced by a computer and do a better job.
51
Replacing trump with just about anything would be an improvement.
116
Luddites unite, you have nothing to lose but the fake world being created just for you featuring techno-robo wizardry.
16
Henry Ford, etc.
5
Maybe Amazon should revive the old Automats, and make all restaurants have automated food service/ self service. Then they can add the computer check out.
Now all they have to figure out is how to get rid of the cooks.
Now all they have to figure out is how to get rid of the cooks.
10
The problem with seeing only things based on what you've already bought — be it books, food, clothing, or anything else — is that you lose, entirely, the joy of discovery, the pleasure of browsing, the opportunity to expand your world. How incredibly efficient and deadly dull.
112
I will be boycotting Whole Foods, so take that, Amazon. Back in the late 90s I frequented a small but popular health food store near me that I loved, and all was well. Then Big Retail came in and a chain called Wild Oats quickly put the small store out of business because people are stupid and did not foresee that if they didn't support the small store it would disappear, which it did. I eventually, but reluctantly, succumbed to going to Wild Oats, and came to appreciate some of the health and beauty aids they carried. No sooner did I get used to Wild Oats after forgiving them for putting my small store out of business, then Whole Foods replaced them and my favorite brands from WO disappeared. Based on my experience, the new WF under Amazon will be much worse than it is now and, even if it isn't, I do not want to support Amazon if I can possibly avoid it. Support your locally owned businesses who employ your neighbors, do not support Amazon who will replace people with robots!!
48
My college student daughter, home for the summer has a job in retail for the summer. Last month reading about storefronts vacant in Greenwich village made me distraught. Knowing that so many Macy's stores across this country are being shuttered makes me resist cheaper online purchases. At Christmas this year, as I have for several years, I am going to hr biggest store in the US yo buy gifts: Macy's at Herald Square. Can we start a movement? Can we have a day without internet purchase? Profits are being made by two or three corporations at the majority's expense. Living wages are becoming non-existent and the price for goods is becoming cheaper than ever, but what a price we will all pay. A new Whole Foods is a mile away from me, walking distance, but I no longer want to shop there. The experience is tarnished. Tomorrow I will shop at the small greengrocer and resist on-line purchases. I will buy clothes at retail stores that are not virtual, feeling that I am participating in a kind of resistance.
51
The store of the future that looks the way you describe is not going to control the grocery store market. Why? Because people do not want robots in a warehouse to select their food, very most especially not their fresh food--fruits, vegetables, cheeses, fresh bread. Particularly not fruits and vegetables! The only way to buy what you want in that category is to touch it, pick it up, smell it, and choose it yourself. People like to do this--it is enjoyable. Also, most people do not want to be "greeted" by a fake "person" with face recognition, which looks and feels ridiculous, and be told what they want and where to find it when they have not asked. We also do not want to be shepherded into small areas so we won't "waste time." Whether time is being wasted or not by wandering around a store, enjoying looking at things, is not for some outside person like Bezos to determine. Another idea without intelligence behind it is the thought that people will be best pleased by having no other actual persons working in the store to interact with, at the checkout or stocking shelves. (Remember stocking shelves? I know--Bezos would say there will be no shelf-stocking because everything that people can see is only a "sample"!) People like to see and talk to each other, just as they like to choose their own food. If Bezos thinks buying food is like buying any other commodity, he is simply wrong.
I am not too worried. Remember all that talk about books being history?
I am not too worried. Remember all that talk about books being history?
63
This article says it's not hard to teach a machine to read bar codes. I beg to differ. At my local Safeway, I have a near-prefect record of problematic transactions. And I'm alone; there is a kid stationed there to untangle the endless problems these machines cause. Why not use far more reliable human checkers? Because most were let go or had their hours cut when the bar code readers were installed.
26
Unless social and political norms and expectations evolve in some new direction, this human-free business model will serve only to exacerbate the decline of wages and living standards for working and middle class people. Western corporate business strategies all involve constantly wringing every last penny of profit possible from the enterprise, the proceeds always going to upper management and shareholders. The obvious outcome will be greater income inequality, impoverishment for the many. Eventually, the 1% will live in splendid fashion behind gold walls, protected by private armies. The wealthy will enjoy shopping in a human-free environment, free from all that dirty business of community, all that icky interpersonal stuff. It will go on for a while, until a critical mass of inequality and misery compels a new bolshevism to slouch towards Bethlehem, and the whole system is blown up in revolutionary chaos. One thing is sure: the future will not be "like today, but even more so".
26
As an introvert I avoid automated checkout kiosks. Cashiers are friendly and polite and understand when a price tag isn't right or catch a damaged package I might have missed. A machine will miss the package, overcharge me for an item or try to charge me for my own sunglasses if I accidentally put them on the table. At that point I have to deal with an overworked staffer who's had nothing but problems with customers and I have to convince them that their computer made a mistake. Horrifying for someone like me.
Service should still be done by people.
Service should still be done by people.
37
" You walk into a store and are greeted by name, by a computer with facial recognition that directs you to the items you need.You peruse a small area — no chance of getting lost or wasting time searching for things — because the store stocks only sample items. " What if I don't know what I need and want to browse and think of other things while in the store because my menu is in my head and not on my phone?
27
I read a book a week. Used to use Amazon. Not anymore. When looking for something to buy online I often search on Amazon for the reviews. Then I buy it elsewhere.
40
BOYCOTT AMAZON and all its holdings.
8
I've worked in technology and love cool apps and gadgets as much as the next geek, but too many of these changes are trying to solve trivial problems and inconveniences and, all too often, problems that don't exist. What are these economists planning to do with all of the people they neatly toss out of work? Make Soylent Green? What was the last big problem technology solved vs. making disposable toys and tons of e-waste?
And I really don't get this desperation to end human interaction while shopping. My local Whole Foods has a wine bar as well as indoor and outdoor seating to enjoy prepared foods at the store. I enjoy interacting with staff in every section of the place. The cashiers are plenty efficient and generally interesting and pleasant people. I don't want drones delivering packages to my house, and I certainly don't want food tossed over the fence and baking in the sun until I get home. Will they pack it in a disposable cooler? Way to go green! Also, I enjoy catching up with neighbors I see when I stop to pick up a few items to make for dinner on my way home from work.
One of the biggest issues we are suffering from as a nation right now is the fragmentation of society, with the loss of connection and destruction of empathy that go along with that. This sort of nameless, faceless, far away mega-warehousing approach is taking us in the wrong direction.
And I really don't get this desperation to end human interaction while shopping. My local Whole Foods has a wine bar as well as indoor and outdoor seating to enjoy prepared foods at the store. I enjoy interacting with staff in every section of the place. The cashiers are plenty efficient and generally interesting and pleasant people. I don't want drones delivering packages to my house, and I certainly don't want food tossed over the fence and baking in the sun until I get home. Will they pack it in a disposable cooler? Way to go green! Also, I enjoy catching up with neighbors I see when I stop to pick up a few items to make for dinner on my way home from work.
One of the biggest issues we are suffering from as a nation right now is the fragmentation of society, with the loss of connection and destruction of empathy that go along with that. This sort of nameless, faceless, far away mega-warehousing approach is taking us in the wrong direction.
124
I always use self-checkout now whenever it's available in a store. I worked in a grocery store 40 years ago when checkers had to actually learn prices, and ten-key, and could pack a sack properly, and I have used cloth bags for 20 years when shopping. Most store clerks now are marginally trained, if at all. I hate having someone stuff raw meat into a bag with strawberries or drop canned goods on tomatoes. I use Amazon grocery services now when I can, and I'd love having the inventory at Whole Foods available for delivery. Let me pick out and purchase my meats and fresh produce at the store, preferably with self-checkout, and let Amazon bring canned, boxed, and frozen foods, dairy, and paper goods to my house. Meanwhile, those cashiers can surely do as good a job, and earn as much money, pulling and delivering orders, and working warehouse jobs. Anyone who thinks that would be a demotion from working a checkout just hasn't stood on their feet at a register for eight hours.
14
Julius Caesar tried to stop the automation of his time, and was killed for it. Back then it was slaves rather than machines, though the effect was the same. Roman citizen workers were replaced by unpaid/low cost slaves, especially on the vast farm estates. Caesar tried to force the nobles/landowners/Senators, to replace many of their slaves, at huge cost, with Roman workers. He was the Bernie Sanders of his day, and was slaughtered for his troubles.
12
The Industrial Revolution, which increased production by orders of magnitude via machines, was supposed to be a "job killer". But look at the unemployment rate today.
4
I fully embrace technology. I would have no problem with a system where all my dry, frozen and dairy foods were chosen by a picker. But how would a picker know the exact thickness I like in my chicken, what degree of marbeling I want on my meat, how ripe I like my bananas when I buy them, etc....? Most people have detailed and hard to articulate personal preferences that make automaton in this area very difficult. Though you could certainly eliminate the checkers. Especially at the WF in my area where they all operate at a glaciel pace.
6
I have a PhD in Computer Science and have worried that this was coming for a long time. I saw my familly nearly lose their jobs in the graphic design industry when Photoshop and digital cameras came out.
We should resist the elimination of jobs by non-cooperation. I already do not use the self-checkout. If people do not use these job-killing conveniences we have a chance of stopping them without having to call for regulation (which is pretty close to hopeless). We would have a better chance of stopping it if we had strong anti-trust laws and true competition. We need to elect politicians who will do the right thing when it comes to preserving jobs and ending monopolistic anti-competitive behavior.
We should resist the elimination of jobs by non-cooperation. I already do not use the self-checkout. If people do not use these job-killing conveniences we have a chance of stopping them without having to call for regulation (which is pretty close to hopeless). We would have a better chance of stopping it if we had strong anti-trust laws and true competition. We need to elect politicians who will do the right thing when it comes to preserving jobs and ending monopolistic anti-competitive behavior.
41
Calling for resistance is hopeless, as has been proven time and again. Just look at the fate of local book stores. And anti-trust laws have nothing to do with this trend. Stronger trust busting would, if anything, add more pricing pressure and incentive to automate.
2
Maybe I'm selfish, but I prefer self-checkout, and I'd venture that few would follow your example.
7
I agree. I purposely refuse to use self checkout because it's putting
someone out of work. Young people need jobs.
someone out of work. Young people need jobs.
20
I buy everything online. AMZN is awesome. I don't miss dealing with sales people or cashiers.
I use Amazon Fresh: the produce is great, the deli meat fresh, milk cold, eggs unbroken. Much much better than Giant's Peapod which I used for 15 years. I'm not sure what AMZN has planned for Whole Foods, buying customers? buying supply chains? Whatever, bezos is a logistics genius.
I use Amazon Fresh: the produce is great, the deli meat fresh, milk cold, eggs unbroken. Much much better than Giant's Peapod which I used for 15 years. I'm not sure what AMZN has planned for Whole Foods, buying customers? buying supply chains? Whatever, bezos is a logistics genius.
15
I don't know...something about it just doesn't feel right. I like to pick my own fruits and vegetables (smell what seems ripe and ready), I like to see the store clerks at Trader Joe's. I stopped shopping a long time ago at Whole Foods, it just felt too precious. Automating food selection and preparation seems dehumanizing, somehow. I've stopped shopping at Amazon and try to purchase as little as possible online, even if it means less selection (but selection is dwindling at the hands of the warehouse retailers anyway). I can't help but suspect the lack of human interaction for daily or weekly chores is contributing to our lack of tolerance. Has anyone thought about the bleak existence of Amazon "pickers"? Better yet, try growing some of your own food, even if it's a window herb garden...the satisfaction of doing something productive, rather than simply consumption, may be surprisingly rewarding.
37
Farmers markets forever! There are more and more of them.
33
Cashiers can be reduced or eliminated, although i have noticed that the self checkout systems seemed promising a couple of years ago but never really became a dominate form of checkout.
What i can see happen is non perishables can be ordered online to be picked up. While at the store the perishables (meats, seafood, fruits and vegetables) can be bought and combined with the non-perish to be bagged and bought home.
What i can see happen is non perishables can be ordered online to be picked up. While at the store the perishables (meats, seafood, fruits and vegetables) can be bought and combined with the non-perish to be bagged and bought home.
4
Our Jewel Installed self- checkout but it was a flop. Too many errors. Got rid of em. Now theyve done what actually makes sense. Have a 3 person manned area for all 15 item or less purchases. And a universal line. It's wonderful.
9
A conveyer belt sushi restaurant opened recently in Austin. You are seated by a hostess and they. get your drinks, but the rest of the meal service is automated. It is not a huge leap to think how much of the retail experience could be similarly automated.
I know how often human based service fails to meet expectations, so I don't think that there will be huge customer resistance to more automation in retail. My robotic sushi was fantastic.
I know how often human based service fails to meet expectations, so I don't think that there will be huge customer resistance to more automation in retail. My robotic sushi was fantastic.
3
40+ years ago there was a Hamburger Express in the Five Towns. You ordered your meal and it was delivered on a Lionel train!
4
It's the people working at Whole Foods [and Trader Joe] who have made them so successful. Eliminate or marginalize them and what's left that will attract and retain frequent customers. NO WAY would i purchase the costly fresh seafood and meats and cheeses without their suggestions, encouragement, interaction and helpful information.
If they weren't an integral part of my shopping experience, I'd undoubtedly save money. But my enjoyment would diminish substantially.
If they weren't an integral part of my shopping experience, I'd undoubtedly save money. But my enjoyment would diminish substantially.
50
You're missing the forest for the trees. Bezos wants the structure and marketing systems, the bones of the operation, and it's accumulated data. Why take years to build it out himself when he can acquire a turnkey enterprise?
We use Fresh Direct for 90% of our grocery shopping. There is no human interaction beyond the person who physically brings the groceries to our door. It's convenient and generally cost-efficient (like everything else, you have to do some comparison shopping). We don't use it for basics usually - we get those at Target around the corner. But we order good-quality meats, cheeses, seafood and vegetables that are not readily available in our neighborhood. I also frequent the farmer's market near my office, where I buy less common produce and talk to the vendor about storage and preparation. I think there is room for Whole Foods + Amazon somewhere in the middle
5
Lol. Bezos doesn't do "the middle."
6
It will work for certain jobs but automated delivery? Don't know about that. How does it get into an apartment building? If you're not there, your items could be stolen. If it's snowing, can it make it through? If there's a detour? Fast food could see some changes, but customers like to place special orders, and how would that work?
4
The way it works with my local chain is that you pick a two hour window.
I'm retired now but they've always come in the window.
I'm not putting people out of work: someone has to assemble my order, and possibly call me if something out stock. They may suggest a substitute.
Plus a delivery man must bring them from the store to my door.
This article is alarmist. Self driving vehicles are farther away than you think. Writing software is one thing, actual engineering of the vehicle will be much more difficult (I spent my career as a programmer/analyst).
I'm retired now but they've always come in the window.
I'm not putting people out of work: someone has to assemble my order, and possibly call me if something out stock. They may suggest a substitute.
Plus a delivery man must bring them from the store to my door.
This article is alarmist. Self driving vehicles are farther away than you think. Writing software is one thing, actual engineering of the vehicle will be much more difficult (I spent my career as a programmer/analyst).
6
People once bought books mostly after flipping through the pages, reading the jackets, etc.
7
I actually enjoy grocery shopping , I don't want the process to be anymore automated that is now.
I don't want a faceless clerk selecting my produce or a robot loading a prepack of vegetables or salad into a box for me.
I don't want a faceless clerk selecting my produce or a robot loading a prepack of vegetables or salad into a box for me.
32
I can already shop online for groceries from a local chain. There's a modest fee for someone to walk the store picking the stuff up, plus for delivery. But for older people who may have mobility problems it's worth the fee.
But the search engine can't match Amazon's. There are things I know they carry but the crude search engine can't find them. Search engines are difficult to program, only very large sites like Amazon can afford it.
So I can see how Amazon could do a better just in that one area.
But the search engine can't match Amazon's. There are things I know they carry but the crude search engine can't find them. Search engines are difficult to program, only very large sites like Amazon can afford it.
So I can see how Amazon could do a better just in that one area.
7
I imagined this scene from the future. What a nightmare. What about comparing expiration dates and picking the freshest item? What about getting the nicest looking produce? Etc., etc. This might be good for the average shopper but won't work for the prudent ones.
20
It might actually reduce the shameful amount of food that's wasted in grocery stores since people won't be able to pick out the nicest looking produce or the items with the latest expiration dates.
3
"T", you have an interesting point of view.
2
Does anyone here shop for conversation and public company? For the old village well? To get out of the house and reality show television and political insult trading debates?
If I want to talk to or via computer I have a smart phone, an IPAD, and two laptops.
I walk or ride to the stores near and across Seattle. I walk with one leg amputated above the knee or wheel my wheelchair up to five plus miles a day--mostly to get out and see and smell and hear the real world.
Computer purchases for me are for long out of print books and specialty items not carried in stores.
Please, support the local bookstores. Support the coffee house and the Chinatown little grocery which butchers it own meats. (Boneless, skinless fresh chicken for 1.89 a pound, once in a while an 'outrageous' $2.39. Baby boy choi $0.89 a pound, . . . And a chance to practice my Chinese.
If I want to talk to or via computer I have a smart phone, an IPAD, and two laptops.
I walk or ride to the stores near and across Seattle. I walk with one leg amputated above the knee or wheel my wheelchair up to five plus miles a day--mostly to get out and see and smell and hear the real world.
Computer purchases for me are for long out of print books and specialty items not carried in stores.
Please, support the local bookstores. Support the coffee house and the Chinatown little grocery which butchers it own meats. (Boneless, skinless fresh chicken for 1.89 a pound, once in a while an 'outrageous' $2.39. Baby boy choi $0.89 a pound, . . . And a chance to practice my Chinese.
49
Will Trump come to the rescue of cashiers like he has for coal workers? We vote too!
20
Donald Trump has probably never been in a supermarket in his life , or a coal mine !
31
Rapid substitution of capital for labor and angst over resulting job displacement has been a feature of western civilization since James Watt and the steam engine. The angst is genuine – folks feeling it bigly just elected a President who tells them the answer is to turn back the clock and restore jobs, like many in coal mining, largely lost to automation and better technologies.
We are now three centuries into this continuum of automation since Watt’s tea kettle, and there’s no question that material standards of living across all income classes is vastly better in 2017 than 1817. A $15 minimum wage merely accelerates the process, but it’s inevitable, and capital will continue supplant labor in lower-skilled work. A big part of the answer of what to do with surplus labor that can’t or won’t learn new skills, some for jobs that today don’t even exist, is sprinkled throughout these comments: provide the kind of human to human value-added interactions that no machine can, regardless of its artificial intelligence.
We are now three centuries into this continuum of automation since Watt’s tea kettle, and there’s no question that material standards of living across all income classes is vastly better in 2017 than 1817. A $15 minimum wage merely accelerates the process, but it’s inevitable, and capital will continue supplant labor in lower-skilled work. A big part of the answer of what to do with surplus labor that can’t or won’t learn new skills, some for jobs that today don’t even exist, is sprinkled throughout these comments: provide the kind of human to human value-added interactions that no machine can, regardless of its artificial intelligence.
6
Can we please stop predicting the end of industries there is a new development? I've been reading op-eds about the end of print books for the past 12 years and yet my local bookstore is still here (and Amazon is making their own too). If anything these will be more useful for retail workers because they will be able to focus more on customer experience than pricing new shipments.
14
The customer experience I want is the Amazon experience: Order IT and get IT in two days, and I don't have to talk to any retail worker, nor drive to the store.
6
>I don't have to talk to any retail worker,
And yet many people enjoy a bit of human interaction, even with strangers. That's why solitary confinement is such a severe punishment.
And yet many people enjoy a bit of human interaction, even with strangers. That's why solitary confinement is such a severe punishment.
14
The cashiers are the wrong focus here. Amazon has been very skilled in managing its suppliers and coordinating delivery from multiple fulfillment centers. This is something they will bring to grocery shopping.
One of the problems of shopping is no one place seems to carry everything you want to buy. However, Amazon Whole Foods will be able to handle millions of inventory items, not just the tens of thousands found in an ordinary store. Customers will be able to take some things and leave others for delivery, buy and send things for office or school events, and so on. Some customers will want data on the supply chain itself, to confirm organic processing or free range farming practice or many of the other things that add value to a food item.
This isn't about small improvements to the big box shopping experience, or saving a few dollars with robot cashiers. It's about gaining access to the Whole Foods shopper and selling more things through this channel. Potentially a lot more things.
One of the problems of shopping is no one place seems to carry everything you want to buy. However, Amazon Whole Foods will be able to handle millions of inventory items, not just the tens of thousands found in an ordinary store. Customers will be able to take some things and leave others for delivery, buy and send things for office or school events, and so on. Some customers will want data on the supply chain itself, to confirm organic processing or free range farming practice or many of the other things that add value to a food item.
This isn't about small improvements to the big box shopping experience, or saving a few dollars with robot cashiers. It's about gaining access to the Whole Foods shopper and selling more things through this channel. Potentially a lot more things.
11
Won't work for me or a lot of other people.
a) I like to look at what I'm buying and then decide which one(s) I pick or decide not to pick any of that particular item that day; I won't trust an unknown human or a robot to do that for me;
b) I like to browse in case I forgot about something I need or serendipity strikes;
c) I don't want to be recognized (disguises?); moreover, referring to b), any purchase I want to make out of the ordinary might not be easy for the app to get, and then it takes up more time and frustration;
d) a human cashier checkout works faster - it's only when the lines are a lot longer at the human checkout that the e-checkout is better to use, and only when people have a limited number of items (or they have to go to the end to bag some items to get them out of the way before scanning more, and then repeat).
Cutting jobs will also not sit well with a lot of WF customers, who tend to be liberal and labor friendly. Some of them may shop elsewhere as a result. Lower prices also probably means producers are more squeezed, in the U.S. and abroad, or, corners get cut in sustainability and how truly organic something is (greenwashing) - neither of which will go over well with WF customers. Ditto for Bezos' reputation for treating his employees harshly.
a) I like to look at what I'm buying and then decide which one(s) I pick or decide not to pick any of that particular item that day; I won't trust an unknown human or a robot to do that for me;
b) I like to browse in case I forgot about something I need or serendipity strikes;
c) I don't want to be recognized (disguises?); moreover, referring to b), any purchase I want to make out of the ordinary might not be easy for the app to get, and then it takes up more time and frustration;
d) a human cashier checkout works faster - it's only when the lines are a lot longer at the human checkout that the e-checkout is better to use, and only when people have a limited number of items (or they have to go to the end to bag some items to get them out of the way before scanning more, and then repeat).
Cutting jobs will also not sit well with a lot of WF customers, who tend to be liberal and labor friendly. Some of them may shop elsewhere as a result. Lower prices also probably means producers are more squeezed, in the U.S. and abroad, or, corners get cut in sustainability and how truly organic something is (greenwashing) - neither of which will go over well with WF customers. Ditto for Bezos' reputation for treating his employees harshly.
46
Once robots come in, do you think prices will drop, reflecting the savings gained by causing another human to lose their job ? I'll bet not.
64
Prices are set by what the traffic will bear. Costs have very little to do with it.
2
How much did you pay for a 21 inch TV in 1976? How much today for four times bigger one?
I think that rather than fighting the idea of automation, we should embrace it but modify our political and economic system to spread the wealth around. It is theoretically a major boon to humanity if we can produce the same amount of output with less work. The problem that has to be dealt with is the distribution of wealth. I think that we will have to move towards a universal basic income. As a thought experiment, think of a factory that produces widgets that now has human workers who work 40 hours per week, are paid, and pay taxes. Eventually the factory will be run by robots who are controlled by artificial intelligence and work 168 hours per week. The way to make this a positive change for everyone is to tax the factory's profits and use the taxes to provide a universal basic income. There is still incentive for someone to own the factory, as the owner will end up making much more than someone living off the universal basic income, but a large subset of the population will not work, and will receive enough to live a rewarding and comfortable life. This will also eventually be necessary for the factory owner, as he needs people with money to buy his widgets. The biggest problem in the transition to this system will be political, as those who are already rich and powerful always fight against redistribution of wealth. There are countries that already have a good social welfare systems where people are taken care of cradle to grave, however, so this is an obtainable goal.
29
I think that rather than fighting the idea of automation, we should embrace it but modify our political and economic system to spread the wealth around. "
This would make a great start for a stand-up routine. We have modified the economy--1% owns 80% of the worlds wealth and the 99% own the rest.
This would make a great start for a stand-up routine. We have modified the economy--1% owns 80% of the worlds wealth and the 99% own the rest.
9
Since Bezos just spent nearly $14 billion to buy WF and will spend millions more to integrate it with Amazon and roll out cashier-less stores, how does he owe a cent to anyone who loses their job here? Labor is based on wages directly related to effort expended. Anything else leads to the slippery slope to communism.
3
Yes, thank you, dve commenter! A simplified version would be divide the number of needed work hours by the number of workers to get the number of hours per worker for full employment. That would determine the standard full-time work load, rather than some pointless arbitrary number like 40/week.
1
I'm looking forward to seeing what Bezos does with Whole Foods. The changes he has made at The Washington Post are not visible to the reader. Likewise, the changes he makes at Whole Foods may not be visible to the shopper. His Pickup Ballad and Amazon Go stores have probably shown him where the problems are with introducing automation into the store environment.
The extent to which stores have automated the checkout process has not substantially reduced checkout time. The ability of the product to "talk" to the customer's phone or some other technology carried by the customer or concealed in the basket may be a means of increasing the checkout time. Of course, an app that integrates store code, bar code reading technology or near-field communication and customer credit card information or facial recognition would increase checkout time. Of course, there is still the need to bag what one purchases. Some one will walk-through the process and figure it out.
The extent to which stores have automated the checkout process has not substantially reduced checkout time. The ability of the product to "talk" to the customer's phone or some other technology carried by the customer or concealed in the basket may be a means of increasing the checkout time. Of course, an app that integrates store code, bar code reading technology or near-field communication and customer credit card information or facial recognition would increase checkout time. Of course, there is still the need to bag what one purchases. Some one will walk-through the process and figure it out.
1
Thankfully the Post no longer publishes Sally Quinn's vanity pieces on the hazards of wedding planning or the difficulties of handling husbands or other silly topics.
1
at WINCO you bag your own or you are SOL--and you have to BUY the bag (or bring your own)
1
When all the jobs are gone and the 1% has the other 50% of all wealth and assets in their pockets we will be at an end point. We are heading there rapidly. There are no safe occupations which will be free from the threat of automation. The tax base will collapse and anarchy will reign. Before anarchy will be state despotism. Despotism is our current state of affairs all over the globe including the USA.
31
Yep, that's it in a nutshell. The world is over populated...and the idea that there will be no means for less fortunate people to make a living frightens me. This is all going to end badly.
6
I guess you are NOT IBM's Watson otherwise you would have figured this out for us. We already have the despot, now what?
2
I am an introvert, so you would think an automated shopping experience would appeal to me, but it doesn't. I nearly always pick the cashier line over the self-checkout. I shop at Whole Foods about once or twice a month and enjoy chatting with the cashiers and butchers, etc.
I have not been to an Amazon bookstore, but from what I've read, they don't sound appealing to me. Maybe they would be good at airports, where you just want to quickly find a book for the plane.
I have not been to an Amazon bookstore, but from what I've read, they don't sound appealing to me. Maybe they would be good at airports, where you just want to quickly find a book for the plane.
18
"find a book for the plane."
I ddin't know that planes could read. Thanks.
I ddin't know that planes could read. Thanks.
The just walk out technology is going to be interesting. I suspect in the not so distant future at the black hat conference that some intelligent hacker will showcase the ability to easily hack into said system and charge items to other people near by or to undermine the system in some other way so to get the groceries for free.
That said, I also welcome the idea of automating many of these jobs. More automation the better as I see it. That said, I'd be supportive of taxing some of the profits saved on labor so to use in training and upscaling the displaced workers.
That said, I also welcome the idea of automating many of these jobs. More automation the better as I see it. That said, I'd be supportive of taxing some of the profits saved on labor so to use in training and upscaling the displaced workers.
3
to use in training and upscaling the displaced workers."
to do what exactly, train for jobs soon to be automated. Techies are non-thinkers. All they can imagine is an automated world that will have no effect on them personally. THINK AGAIN.
to do what exactly, train for jobs soon to be automated. Techies are non-thinkers. All they can imagine is an automated world that will have no effect on them personally. THINK AGAIN.
13
Good article from FT that answers your comment: https://www.ft.com/content/b5ceec2a-50e4-11e7-a1f2-db19572361bb?mhq5j=e3
Full automation is a bit away, a lot of the things that are going to get hit are the low hanging fruits which should go for the purpose of economic evolution and creative destruction.
Full automation is a bit away, a lot of the things that are going to get hit are the low hanging fruits which should go for the purpose of economic evolution and creative destruction.
This scenario sounds like a nightmare. I go to Whole Foods to browse the aisles. I want to see a wide display of items. I want to pick my own fruit, my own creamer with a sell-by date I prefer, etc. I want to see other shoppers walking around and say hello to neighbors. I want to see employed workers.
I don't want to be greeted by a machine with facial recognition. I want to pay cash. I want my items now, not at some later time when I'm probably not home.
I will already start looking at other options for grocery stores, like Mollie Stone's.
I don't want to be greeted by a machine with facial recognition. I want to pay cash. I want my items now, not at some later time when I'm probably not home.
I will already start looking at other options for grocery stores, like Mollie Stone's.
83
I'm skeptical that the model suggested in this article would work. I would gladly outsource the mundane aspects of grocery shopping like paper goods, canned goods, and cleaning products. But when it comes to selecting fresh produce, meats, and dairy there is no way that most people are going to trust a robot to choose fresh produce at the peak of flavor, nicely marbled meats or fresh seafood for me. There will always be a demand for fresh, locally sourced foods and baked goods.
8
Yes but.
You sound like a well educated, comfortable New Yorker.
But as Dumpkoff Trump demonstrated, the many who live hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck, will opt for Amazon + Half Foods over Walmart. They don't buy "well marbled beef." They are the ones who can't afford USDA Choice, never mind Prime. They're happy to get "Good" grade meats, and they will go for price over quality, price over shopping experience.
You sound like a well educated, comfortable New Yorker.
But as Dumpkoff Trump demonstrated, the many who live hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck, will opt for Amazon + Half Foods over Walmart. They don't buy "well marbled beef." They are the ones who can't afford USDA Choice, never mind Prime. They're happy to get "Good" grade meats, and they will go for price over quality, price over shopping experience.
1
The good thing is that there will never be a mandate to pay a robot a $15/hour minimum wage. Sorry, Mayor de Blasio, et al.
4
non sure what you do Cecil, but I do hope you are very near retirement age.
2
The more you get into areas where many people interact, the less you can automate. People are variously dishonest, volatile, indecisive, ignorant or dumb. Supermarkets are not clean rooms or factory floors. They are even worse than offices for encounters between machines and clueless people. Multiply the worst office story by 100 and you still won't get what can happen in a supermarket. Watch a "People of Walmart" video and then tell us you can do it with software.
And consider the supermarkets themselves. They are a war zone of a very special kind, where brands indulge in outright bribery to be placed prominently against the competition. "Rebates", "Incentives" etc. are part of a system where brand owners "encourage" retailers to place their products prominently or put them on "end caps" (look it up) where buyers will see them. An automated model will subvert all of that, or lead to a different kind of competition that is equally corrupt.
Maybe Amazon can be the catalog store that works. Remember, there were once a lot of them, and they failed largely because of online competition. But that doesn't translate into running a grocery store.
And consider the supermarkets themselves. They are a war zone of a very special kind, where brands indulge in outright bribery to be placed prominently against the competition. "Rebates", "Incentives" etc. are part of a system where brand owners "encourage" retailers to place their products prominently or put them on "end caps" (look it up) where buyers will see them. An automated model will subvert all of that, or lead to a different kind of competition that is equally corrupt.
Maybe Amazon can be the catalog store that works. Remember, there were once a lot of them, and they failed largely because of online competition. But that doesn't translate into running a grocery store.
7
Many commenters resist the notion of too few human jobs by suggesting the example of Whole Foods stores becoming Amazon Go cashierless stores is not going to happen, that the Whole Foods model is based upon personal service, that human interactions in a check-out line are too valuable for us to give them up. Well, history suggests otherwise: gathering around the village oven or laundry to exchange pleasantries is no more.
The self-checkout lines in stores, on-line shopping, absence of store employees to provide guidance, all are common. Autonomous vehicles are coming, putting truck, taxi, limo and bus drivers out of work. Expert systems will replace medical diagnosis in most cases. On-line courses will teach skills (although they won't necessarily awaken folks unaware of their talents).
The future lies in non-automatable activities. Things undervalued and understaffed today like child & elder care, rehabilitation, health care, real education (not job training for another soon to be automated skill). And large scale undertakings for the common good: affordable housing, infrastructure development, environmental protection, basic (really basic) research.
The chaos of dumping private sector jobs can be addressed by moving to jobs that raise all boats, not all yachts.
The self-checkout lines in stores, on-line shopping, absence of store employees to provide guidance, all are common. Autonomous vehicles are coming, putting truck, taxi, limo and bus drivers out of work. Expert systems will replace medical diagnosis in most cases. On-line courses will teach skills (although they won't necessarily awaken folks unaware of their talents).
The future lies in non-automatable activities. Things undervalued and understaffed today like child & elder care, rehabilitation, health care, real education (not job training for another soon to be automated skill). And large scale undertakings for the common good: affordable housing, infrastructure development, environmental protection, basic (really basic) research.
The chaos of dumping private sector jobs can be addressed by moving to jobs that raise all boats, not all yachts.
13
I would absolutely love, love, love it if a machine could diagnose patients in the ER. Not anytime soon- they can't even read x-rays accurately.
1
jz - actually they are reading X-Rays and CT-scans far more accurately than Dr's are and have been doing do for a number of years.
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/look-x-rays-moles-living-ai-coming-job/
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/look-x-rays-moles-living-ai-coming-job/
2
". . . Lowe’s stores in California have customer service robots that roam the aisles to answer customers’ questions and monitor inventory. . . .Lowe’s, for instance, said its customer service robot answered simple questions so employees could provide more personalized expertise, like home project planning. . . "
Finding a human being sales person in a Lowe's has always been a challenge. And even when you can find one, he or she appears unable or even unwilling to help. I've frequently had to go to the manager to try to get any customer service. Sounds like robots will only make shopping at Lowe's an even worse experience.
Finding a human being sales person in a Lowe's has always been a challenge. And even when you can find one, he or she appears unable or even unwilling to help. I've frequently had to go to the manager to try to get any customer service. Sounds like robots will only make shopping at Lowe's an even worse experience.
8
umm...I actually like interacting with people even if it's not 'efficient'...
42
Preschool teacher is a service job? I have total respect for service jobs, but I (and my masters degree in education) strenuously disagree with this statement. Most high quality preschools require coursework (or degrees) in early childhood education. I don't think that is typical of service jobs. If the NYT wants to categorize all teaching jobs as service positions then make that clear, otherwise I'd love an explanation as to why instructor our youngest citizens is in a separate category.
23
The article, though insightful, is probably off. If Amazon wanted to automate the grocery business, it would have not picked the most expensive, most human-touch grocery chain, committed to responsible sourcing and humane treatment of animals, with some of the best paid, and most stringently selected clerks (often with or in the process of obtaining a college education), while preserving its leadership team. If this were the intention, Amazon could have bought a much cheaper retailer, with more stores, and lower overhead.
As other retailers suspect, and as their investors expect (some competing grocery stocks dropped near 20% as this was announced) Amazon will use technology to fire up home delivery of certain grocery items, (Instacart, we barely knew ye...) while building on the Whole Foods store experience, just as it has built from books into a streaming and entertainment experience.
Clerks might indeed lose their jobs due to automation, but it is much more likely to happen at Walmart than at Whole Foods/Amazon.
As other retailers suspect, and as their investors expect (some competing grocery stocks dropped near 20% as this was announced) Amazon will use technology to fire up home delivery of certain grocery items, (Instacart, we barely knew ye...) while building on the Whole Foods store experience, just as it has built from books into a streaming and entertainment experience.
Clerks might indeed lose their jobs due to automation, but it is much more likely to happen at Walmart than at Whole Foods/Amazon.
1
Um, not sure about that. There's an accounting allowance for goodwill, which I'm sure is substantial. They can use hard data like return purchasers to quantify it.
Then they commit to providing the same level of service for their customers using automated services, like self-checkout and beyond, and they're on their way.
Starting at the bargain end of the business doesn't give them sufficient margin to pay for the development and trials. Also, the upside is way more substantial.
Then they commit to providing the same level of service for their customers using automated services, like self-checkout and beyond, and they're on their way.
Starting at the bargain end of the business doesn't give them sufficient margin to pay for the development and trials. Also, the upside is way more substantial.
4
Not sure I can completely agree. Amazon destroyed countless small bookstores whose sales staff were highly intelligent, well educated, and specialist experts on books and authors. They loved what they did and it showed. I feel it's more likely that because WF is struggling financially, Amazon seizes an opportunity.
12
In contrast to their healthy wholesome reputation, I happen to know a long time Whole Foods employee who spent the better of 2 decades working to design the layouts of the products in the store aisles who, along with many other employees, have been told they no longer have their jobs starting in the fall .
Many were given the demoralizing option to "re interview" for MUCH lower paying jobs. Some are nearing 60 years old with families to support, and now face employment at that mature age with no health insurance and no easy way to find future employent. All this from the ever so "employee positive" ,"caring" "team based" " wholesome" Whole Foods company. Their concern is for their stock prices and profit over their healthy foods and dedicated long term employee family. As a former fan of the store, I'm incredibly disappointed in their callous treatment of their workers.
Many were given the demoralizing option to "re interview" for MUCH lower paying jobs. Some are nearing 60 years old with families to support, and now face employment at that mature age with no health insurance and no easy way to find future employent. All this from the ever so "employee positive" ,"caring" "team based" " wholesome" Whole Foods company. Their concern is for their stock prices and profit over their healthy foods and dedicated long term employee family. As a former fan of the store, I'm incredibly disappointed in their callous treatment of their workers.
14
While Bezos might make WF more efficient, I don't shop at WF for efficiency.
15
Given the option I would never shop there, at this rate there will be no human interaction at all, very dehumanizing.
7
It would be really interesting to understand the entire cost of automating. There is software to be updated, tested, managed. Hardware ages and has to be maintained. When things go haywire, you have to have a back up plan. All of these things cost. It's not a one-time expense to automate.
Wish I knew how to write code.
Wish I knew how to write code.
1
A clerk-less society, self-driving cars and taxis and in the 21st century economy only the elite few will have a living income. Welcome to 2084 coming to a life like yours. Jeff Bezos a.k.a Big Brother has his hand on the future. How many programmers will be needed? I hope my grandkids and everyone's future grandkids will have a world to live in that is better than a collective of dumpster divers and rag pickers. For now I prefer to shop at Trader Joe's with it's forced pleasantness to Whole Foods loose definition of "Natural and organic".
20
Personally, I refuse to use one of those "self check out" lanes. I figure, I'm spending my money in their store, the least management can do is keep another cashier employed.
124
Me, too. The only way I would use a self-check-out lane would be if I were paid for my labor, because for the few minutes I would be checking out and bagging my items, I would in effect be an employee and would expect compensation.
1
Minority Report had this sort of human/AI interaction as the protagonist walked around stores, malls (soon to be gone) and it quickly became apparent this was NOT a friendly shopping environment, but instead was one where you were constantly accompanied by a grifty pickpocket, who already had one hand in your wallet. I can wait.
3
"You wave your phone in front of anything you want to buy, then walk out. In the back, robots retrieve your items from a warehouse and deliver them to your home via driverless car or drone."
Yuck--let's all become like mindless automatons. No interaction with your fellow human beings, just emerge from your little bubble long enough to activate the robots, and then go back to your bubble, where the only humans you have to deal with are people of your own choosing, ie, people like yourself. If that's what the brave new world of grocery shopping is coming to, I'll just find the nearest neighborhood grocery. Yeah, the selection may not be as great, and you have to carry your own stuff home, but at least I'll be greeted as a valued shopper and, most importantly, as a human being!
Yuck--let's all become like mindless automatons. No interaction with your fellow human beings, just emerge from your little bubble long enough to activate the robots, and then go back to your bubble, where the only humans you have to deal with are people of your own choosing, ie, people like yourself. If that's what the brave new world of grocery shopping is coming to, I'll just find the nearest neighborhood grocery. Yeah, the selection may not be as great, and you have to carry your own stuff home, but at least I'll be greeted as a valued shopper and, most importantly, as a human being!
27
I remember when we first set foot on the Moon. It was endeavors of that sort which occupied our best and brightest minds. Today those best and brightest minds seem mainly concerned with putting the rest of us out of work.
120
I believe in the not so distant future people won't even need a job for money, they will receive their "living wages" electronically every month. Of course it will create a class system few could ever rise above. Each class gets X amount of money, etc. Haven't we slowly been heading that way? Almost all money transactions are electronic, very rarely do we handle cash or write checks these days and who in their right mind thinks the value of the dollar is based on the gold in Fort Knox, remember that school lesson? I own a retail store, I get credit cards, debit cards. I then use my plastic. I've always thought when I whip out my debit card, wouldn't it be great if it didn't come out of my account, I was allowed to spend just what I needed to live on. I promise I won't be greedy ( I couldn't anyway) I'll stay in my class and use my "free" time doing other worth while things besides spending 8 hour day doing something I hate. Crazy? I'm not so sure.
12
Human beings nowadays need more contact with other humans, not less. Loneliness is a huge problem in modern society. You can't automate human warmth and kindness. You can't automate interesting conversations as you check out. You can't automate a compassionate comment from a salesperson who notices you're having a bad day. We human beings are social creatures who need contact with each other.
150
I don't mind shopping. I don't want anyone else picking out produce and meat for me. What I really need is someone to carry all the groceries upstairs!
48
Grocery stores are intentionally designed to be inefficient with milk in the back so that customers have to walk past other items which they may impulse purchase. Nor does it make any sense to go grocery shopping and not bring your purchases home. An alternate delivery system is a duplication of effort of the most expensive part of delivering packages.
Amazon didn't buy Whole Foods to redo the grocery business Sure, they can transfer supply line wizardry to Whole Foods and reduce margins to increase popularity and sales. Amazon's business model has been to increase volume and gain efficiencies of scale. Whole Foods will probably use Amazon sales data to more effectively stock popular items of that immediate area.
I think it is very relevant that Whole Foods stores also gives Amazon an option to solve the last mile of delivery. Customers expect to visit grocery stores in order to select what looks best. If you love your food you have to see, touch and smell it before buying. Thus, it is a great location for Amazon customers to go to pick up online purchases in a quick automated manner. With a fulfillment center, then it saves time and money on delivering Amazon purchases and Amazon customers can merge picking up their items with their several trips per week to the grocery store.
Amazon didn't buy Whole Foods to redo the grocery business Sure, they can transfer supply line wizardry to Whole Foods and reduce margins to increase popularity and sales. Amazon's business model has been to increase volume and gain efficiencies of scale. Whole Foods will probably use Amazon sales data to more effectively stock popular items of that immediate area.
I think it is very relevant that Whole Foods stores also gives Amazon an option to solve the last mile of delivery. Customers expect to visit grocery stores in order to select what looks best. If you love your food you have to see, touch and smell it before buying. Thus, it is a great location for Amazon customers to go to pick up online purchases in a quick automated manner. With a fulfillment center, then it saves time and money on delivering Amazon purchases and Amazon customers can merge picking up their items with their several trips per week to the grocery store.
2
The myth of milk being in the back to force customers to walk back there is an annoying one. It's just a coincidence. Freight delivery and cooling systems make it impractical to have milk in the front.
8
When I visit my local Home Depot, dozens of friendly, intelligent and often interesting salespeople are there to help and encourage me. I don't like the idea of walking into that huge store without all those knowledgeable companions. Like my usual supermarket experience is now, Home Depot will have become a lonely place to visit.
27
And in a similar fashion, we all loved the meals, friendly flight attendants and leg room of most airlines until we could save a few buck on a budget carrier - and then they all became budget carriers.
Never underestimate the average american desire to save a buck.
Never underestimate the average american desire to save a buck.
6
Your Home Depot is much better managed than mine. Mine has no shortage of hired help, but knowledge is in short supply most of the time.
1
I am an early adapter of technology and I was buying books from Amazon before anyone in my circle of tech friends even knew what it was. But having lived now for half my life with self-service checkouts, computer phone centers, and customer service agents who take 3 times as long to help me because English is not their native language, I now actively seek out real people and real service every time. Stripping away human interaction at every turn does not create a vibrant society. I especially have sympathy and empathy for seniors for whom our paradigm shift in technology leaves them as outcasts and makes them almost afraid to venture out into the world. At every turn they are forced to deal with new gadgets as opposed to people and we have not done a good job of bringing them along. I volunteer for Meals on Wheels and can attest to their trepidation and downright fear of stepping out into our current world.
297
Your remarks show that you are sensitive to human differences and needs. However, your comment about the "dehumanizing" effect of automation reminded me of Marx, and how much we might benefit from reading him today.
Automation requires huge investments of capital. Those who can make the investment and reap the benefit can and do impose on everyone - old or young - changes over which they have no control. Automation is a symptom of something else.
Automation requires huge investments of capital. Those who can make the investment and reap the benefit can and do impose on everyone - old or young - changes over which they have no control. Automation is a symptom of something else.
10
When so many jobs are replaced by automation, who do the capitalists imagine will be able to afford to buy any of the goods and products and services being offered and delivered via robots? Other robots?
221
I don't go to a store because it is fast. I go to a store because over a short time, the employees know me and what I like, not because they're robots whose purpose is to enhance the bottom line, but because they are people who care.
i like to chat briefly with cashiers about what I've chosen, their preferences, and to check in on their kids or exams.
Human contact is a priority to me and as long as there are stores with human cashiers and customer service helpers, those are the stores I will frequent. Bye-bye Whole Foods; hello Central Market (Austin, TX)
i like to chat briefly with cashiers about what I've chosen, their preferences, and to check in on their kids or exams.
Human contact is a priority to me and as long as there are stores with human cashiers and customer service helpers, those are the stores I will frequent. Bye-bye Whole Foods; hello Central Market (Austin, TX)
94
But why would we want any of this? If the only consideration is maximizing profit for the investor class, we're going to end up in a very sad world.
Rather than cutting taxes on the rich people and corporations, it seems to me that the taxes should be super-progressive, so that it doesn't necessarily make economic sense to automate away jobs, or send jobs overseas, or cut product quality to the bone, just to make a few more bucks profit.
We've got six billion people in the world. Let's leave something for us all to do.
Rather than cutting taxes on the rich people and corporations, it seems to me that the taxes should be super-progressive, so that it doesn't necessarily make economic sense to automate away jobs, or send jobs overseas, or cut product quality to the bone, just to make a few more bucks profit.
We've got six billion people in the world. Let's leave something for us all to do.
180
Tax policy has no place interfering in the natural evolution of free markets whether it's advantageous or not.
2
Sorry, but there is no such thing as the “natural evolution of free markets”. That has been the capitalist myth since Adam Smith coined the phrase “invisible hand” which was and is entirely misconstrued by politicians and economists alike; but especially buy the “…one entire party and political movement (that) has built its street cred around opposing government "interference" in the economy, which in practice means it prefers a very specific set of macroeconomic policies: low taxes, low government spending, low or nonexistent budget deficits, tight money, meager welfare state programs, and indifference or active hostility toward organized labor. Intentionally or not, this is a recipe for keeping full employment at bay in perpetuity."
- http://theweek.com/articles/588006/what-sick-economy-actually-normal
- http://theweek.com/articles/588006/what-sick-economy-actually-normal
1
As we've seen, it's only natural for Amazon to take over the book selling market, then grow into other lines. Eventually, Walmart, which grew in a similar way, will be it's direct adversary. In time, virtually all retail will be via one big player. As will all entertainment (think Netflix), all online activity (think Google), all devices (Apple), all communications (Altice?), all personal transportation (on-demand self-driving Ubers), and so on. No one will have the savvy, the experience nor the capital to challenge them. It's evolutionary capitalism.
1
The free market answer to a surplus is for prices to fall until the surplus goes away and prices rise again. Since the lead time for producing people is at least fifteen to twenty years, the market does not do very well in adjusting the supply of people to fit the demand. And the way it does so is for people not to be able to survive or afford to have children.
When people are cheap, there is no need for job safety or accident prevention, since the damaged or disabled workers can easily be replaced. Having children is cheap compared with raising them properly so they can be prepared to compete for decent jobs is expensive.
The free market by itself will not address the surplus of people except in the way it does in developing countries -- an elite with the resources to make sure its next generation continues in the elite, and a mass without many resources so that only the most resourceful manage to move up into the elite and most only replicate a hardscrabble existence.
When people are cheap, there is no need for job safety or accident prevention, since the damaged or disabled workers can easily be replaced. Having children is cheap compared with raising them properly so they can be prepared to compete for decent jobs is expensive.
The free market by itself will not address the surplus of people except in the way it does in developing countries -- an elite with the resources to make sure its next generation continues in the elite, and a mass without many resources so that only the most resourceful manage to move up into the elite and most only replicate a hardscrabble existence.
8
I live in a small town. The closest Whole Foods is a two hour drive for me. I am half an hour from a small city that has two COOP style stores and Trader Joe's. The Farmes Market scene in this area is huge. Even my little town has one. All of the produce comes from the North Valley. I drive one mile to the orchard that supplies most of my fruit. Our town has three grocery stores.I have no plans to buy mail order food. I want to look my potato in the eyes when I am buying.
Perhaps the take over of Whole Foods is a big deal for a city dweller. For areas with smaller populations it won't actually matter. Our grocery service people are safe for now. In fact, shoppers here ignore the quick check for the most part because we have a social relationship with the grocery clerk. A trip to the store is a visit with a neighbor.
Perhaps the take over of Whole Foods is a big deal for a city dweller. For areas with smaller populations it won't actually matter. Our grocery service people are safe for now. In fact, shoppers here ignore the quick check for the most part because we have a social relationship with the grocery clerk. A trip to the store is a visit with a neighbor.
175
I live in the suburbs. Whole Foods recently opened a store in the area, and I have no intention of shopping there. Seasonal farmers markets as well as a small Co-op and a small local organic supermarket chain provide the type of produce and foods we like.
5
Bill Gates has suggested an income tax for robots. I agree. There has to be a way to slow the transition of human work to deep learning machines with some sort of levy that would raise funds to help the people so displaced. Hopefully with some form of training.
22
Guaranteed annual incomes will be necessary.
6
Guaranteed income for the people, you mean. Millions of the new robots can then move in and live happily in the town's poorest neighborhoods. Better yet, make the robots work for a living! No free ride for them. They can clean up and repaint those depressing streets so that human inhabitants can take a pleasant, safe walk through Robot Town at any hour of the day or night.
1
There are many factors likely to impact the extent of automation in grocery stores and other stores. Among them are cost, convenience, and the quality of the shopping experience.
If prices at an automated store are higher than prices at a store with human employees, many will choose the lower cost alternative as long as it is available. If there are no employees at one store to answer customer questions and there are knowledgeable and friendly employees at another store, many will choose the latter.
There likely is a market for an automated store, but I question whether that ultimately will be the sole type of store for "commodity" purchases, and I am confident that "boutique" stores never will be fully automated.
If prices at an automated store are higher than prices at a store with human employees, many will choose the lower cost alternative as long as it is available. If there are no employees at one store to answer customer questions and there are knowledgeable and friendly employees at another store, many will choose the latter.
There likely is a market for an automated store, but I question whether that ultimately will be the sole type of store for "commodity" purchases, and I am confident that "boutique" stores never will be fully automated.
2
Unless we change the tax laws, the logical extention of automation will be that we wind up with a few trillionairs while the 99.99% of us wind up hungry. It does not have to be his way as long as the human values of caring for our brothers and sisters, sharing our good fortune with others is a reality. Does Jeff Bezos "need" or "deserve" another billion$? When do we ask questions like, "what is enough"? Is it time to share my good fortune with my neighbors? What is important in my life? Unless and until we have these conversations the current version of our old economy's will destroy life and the natural world. It does not have t come to this, and we'd better wake up soon. Technology can be very positive for all people, and it can also be deadly and destroy life, as we know. Which way do you believe the chips will fall?
51
Jeff Bezos deserves whatever gains come from his business pursuits and successes.
1
...because those jobs are being sent to Mexico?
1
Have to add. What A blessing it is to be able to discuss ways of purchasing abundant available food and goods, while in too much of the world people are hungry and cowering in shelters afraid to leave and get food. I am not a religious person, but sometimes you have to stop and appreciate what we have.
35
I have just ONE question: Do Amazon workers ( not the Nerds) rely on the taxpayer like the Walmart employees must??? I'm talking welfare: food stamps, housing subsidies, Medicaid for the kids, etc.
That's the most important part of this equation, for ME. The companies that pay their low-level employees the best, will get MY business. PEROID.
That's the most important part of this equation, for ME. The companies that pay their low-level employees the best, will get MY business. PEROID.
90
That's a great point, and one Democrats and Republicans should agree on. Even the big banks are subsidized by taxpayers when they pay their not-quite-full-time tellers such a low wage that they, too, qualify for food stamps, housing subsidies, etc.
Also, it used to be, in the long ago, that a company would risk a shareholder sell-off if it off-shored American jobs. Even the rich cared about their country over their wallet. Now off-shoring is rewarded by a stock boost!
Also, it used to be, in the long ago, that a company would risk a shareholder sell-off if it off-shored American jobs. Even the rich cared about their country over their wallet. Now off-shoring is rewarded by a stock boost!
10
I'm afraid it's beyond your powers of investigation, how do you find out who made the nails which were used to build, the Factory where the chip was made, for the cellphone of the owner of the factory.
Who made the tire for the truck which delivered the engine to the factory that made the digger which was used to divert the water in Oregon.
The water which was eventually used to water the lettuce you bought from a local greengrocers, how much were all those people paid it's just beyond the knowledge base to be able to make those choices unless you fool yourself you know enough..
Who made the tire for the truck which delivered the engine to the factory that made the digger which was used to divert the water in Oregon.
The water which was eventually used to water the lettuce you bought from a local greengrocers, how much were all those people paid it's just beyond the knowledge base to be able to make those choices unless you fool yourself you know enough..
The whole lib ideal that every job should support a certain minimum lifestyle is way past expired. Neither the taxpayer nor their employer has any responsibility to ensure that people can incur the cost of a family, a home, etc.
2
True biggest lie of the centuryis that automation and computerization isn't impoverishing the many at the bottom fo enrich the few at the top.
16
"..spending less time...interacting with people." What are we to become? A society that doesn't socialize?
21
No, we choose our socialization groups instead of feeling compelled to socialize with whatever random person we encounter. Look at the photo illustrating the article. Only one person is smiling, possibly looking at someone else outside of the frame. Everyone else is just standing there, looking down at their book or their phone. Would it make that much difference if they simply placed their order online and waited for it to to be delivered?
1
I have a daughter who will text a friend sitting on a couch four feet away.
2
@Mel Burkley - that's an interesting perspective. Now mine: I live alone. I have lots of friends. Family are a day's drive away. Sometimes, my neighbors in my condo refuse to look up from their phones when in the elevator. I find I need a little human interaction every day. Some days I get it at work, but hopefully I'll retire some day and won't have that vehicle. I know I can volunteer, etc. as long as I'm able. All of that said, on weekends, I enjoy even the small interactions with the seller at the market, the deli gal, the fast food drive through window person. I feel human when I connect with humans - face to face - not always through technology.
Hopefully massage therapy will never be automated.
Hopefully massage therapy will never be automated.
15
The easiest cost to manage in any business is payroll. It is only a matter of time for the "checkout clerk". They will be replaced by a single person to manage the problems shoppers have using the technology...and that person will be some kid making far less than the average cashier today. "You can't stop progress"...you also can't stop obsolescence it would seem.
5
The first paragraph has it backwards. The inefficiency in delivering small amounts of food requiring lots of packaging is one of the reasons why Amazon bought WF. Jeff Bezos has already figured out you can't make money doing that.
Also, it actually takes longer to click through two dozen web pages to select what you need than it does to walk through a store to find them. Sure Amazon can populate your list of most-purchased items, but supermarkets make money off the impulse purchases, not the everyday items.
However, being able to walk through the store, grab your stuff and leave would save most people lots of time. And having consumers "deliver" their own purchases, for free, is going to save Amazon tons of money.
Also, it actually takes longer to click through two dozen web pages to select what you need than it does to walk through a store to find them. Sure Amazon can populate your list of most-purchased items, but supermarkets make money off the impulse purchases, not the everyday items.
However, being able to walk through the store, grab your stuff and leave would save most people lots of time. And having consumers "deliver" their own purchases, for free, is going to save Amazon tons of money.
6
Perhaps finding a way to use the data accumulated at WF checkouts will allow Amazon to anticipate those impulse sales.
Utter nonsense. Bezos is completely misjudging Whole Foods business model, which is based on overpaying for food stuffs in the company of other people who overpay for food stuffs while receiving personal attention. It obviously doesn't compete on price. As a consequence, ironically, Bezos laughably overpaid for the company but still I imagine he won't be dumb enough to wreck it by turning it into a Walmart with much smaller stores and higher rents.
2
Give/assign each person a CPU or core in the cloud as birthright, make all automation run off those real or virtual processors, and apportion rewards. That, or kill off several billion to reduce the huge labor surplus, which is self-defeating, as demand would crash, too. Best a chip each, and higher income for those who do other work.
What will be missing from this "improvement" are the small niceties of talking to people on the line and the cashier. No matter how brief the interaction... it's part of what makes us human: the social skills and the experience of living and working with others. When I greet a cashier by name I believe we both benefit from a sense of self-worth -- even over the mundane transaction of buying a can of soup. Thoughts?
16
I've shopped at my Neighborhood Grocery Store for 40 years. I know all the employees. I know their family members. A trip to the store is like going to visit friends. I spend more time talking to the butcher, the baker, the people in the deli than I do shopping.
9
You describe a "benefit" that can't be quantified, but that comes at a cost that can. Bottom line, cost trumps emotion.
1
The village social life revolving around meeting at the communal oven and laundry has pretty much gone. And chit chat at the cash register is pretty brief.
Social interaction is a plus, but it isn't part of the bottom-line business model. For business, people are profitable only when they can't be replaced by cheaper means.
Of course, at the level of the executive, things are different - who knows who and what makes them tick are essential parts of the deal. Don't know how much humanity enters this as a goal rather than a means to an end. The executive may be sucked into the corporate mind set more than they are aware.
Social interaction is a plus, but it isn't part of the bottom-line business model. For business, people are profitable only when they can't be replaced by cheaper means.
Of course, at the level of the executive, things are different - who knows who and what makes them tick are essential parts of the deal. Don't know how much humanity enters this as a goal rather than a means to an end. The executive may be sucked into the corporate mind set more than they are aware.
1
I want to pick out my own produce and meat, thank you.
28
Easy. Automate everything but produce and meat, which we all like to select ourselves. Stores can be established that only sell these items ( butcher,greengrocer) the way it used to be before supermarkets. How wonderful it would be not to haul heavy bags out to our cars, carry them into the house, etc. perhaps eventually we could have refrigerated portals into our houses for storing perishables. Think differently!
3
Yeah that 5 minutes every two weeks hauling groceries into the house is extremely irksome.
4
I don't have a car so I already order a lot of things online that I used to get from the grocery store. But I would not let someoneelse pick out produce, unless they offered free returns.
I used to go to one of the smaller Whole Foods partly because I knew and liked the friendly staff, but the bigger stores have always been more impersonal. I just hope they wouldn't automate the fish counter. Every WF I've been to, the fish guys are great.
I used to go to one of the smaller Whole Foods partly because I knew and liked the friendly staff, but the bigger stores have always been more impersonal. I just hope they wouldn't automate the fish counter. Every WF I've been to, the fish guys are great.
2
Sooner or later, due to rapid advancements in both robotics and artificial intelligence, most jobs will become obsolete. Of course it starts at the bottom, factory workers, retail associates, cashiers, drivers, etc, but at some point in the not-to-distant future even complex careers that currently require advanced degrees will be better performed by a machine. This is not an "if" but a "when". Now is the time that we as a society need to think long and hard about where we want this to lead and how we want to provide for a continually displaced population. Constant reeducation for evolving careers is a short term solution, but when work opportunities stop changing and start disappearing, the situation will be disastrous if we do not have concrete plans for how to provide for the masses.
70
Couldn't agree more. We need a different system of governance that can plan long-term.
4
Many lawyers and doctors could easily be replaced with AI. Just think how much more money would be circulating in society if those two groups of leeches weren't sucking millions of dollars EACH per year from the system.
"Our mental image of job-killing automation is robots in factories or warehouses. But the next jobs to disappear are probably ones that are a much bigger part of most people’s daily lives: retail workers and cashiers in stores and restaurants."
Indeed the advance of automation is not just computer-controlled manufacture. Besides cashierless shopping, very soon to come are autonomous vehicles and the end of human drivers of everything from taxis and limos to trucks and planes. And a bit further out, expert systems replacing doctors, lawyers, brokers, realtors, and possibly most educators in all but their most demanding activities.
This process has been going on ever since machinery pushed farm workers into the city, and this final stage means the private sector can no longer provide enough jobs to support a middle class.
However, as more and more of us are becoming aware, there are many non-automatable jobs that must be done that lie outside the bottom-line profit-before-all-else business model. We just have to get the corporate hands off Congress so this work can be supported. We have to end the GOP mantra of lower taxes, less regulation, fewer benefits, smaller government. We need people-centric, not corporate, governance.
Indeed the advance of automation is not just computer-controlled manufacture. Besides cashierless shopping, very soon to come are autonomous vehicles and the end of human drivers of everything from taxis and limos to trucks and planes. And a bit further out, expert systems replacing doctors, lawyers, brokers, realtors, and possibly most educators in all but their most demanding activities.
This process has been going on ever since machinery pushed farm workers into the city, and this final stage means the private sector can no longer provide enough jobs to support a middle class.
However, as more and more of us are becoming aware, there are many non-automatable jobs that must be done that lie outside the bottom-line profit-before-all-else business model. We just have to get the corporate hands off Congress so this work can be supported. We have to end the GOP mantra of lower taxes, less regulation, fewer benefits, smaller government. We need people-centric, not corporate, governance.
27
The invention of tools that enable fewer people to do more work has happened throughout history. Computer technology and automation are becoming cheaper and more advanced at a rapid rate. We are rapidly approaching the point where we have many more people than jobs. This problem will not be solved by bringing jobs back from other countries, because even they have eliminated much work using automation. As a country, we must find a way to provide a meaningful life for the large number of people who will no longer be needed in the workforce.
19
As much as I like the Internet, it's obvious that it and automation have been cannibalizing whole industries and the work force. Just a few months ago, I remember listening to an interview with an author who'd written a book about computers increasingly doing work that was the province of middle managers and white collar workers. It featured a baseball game report that sounded like it was written by a sports writer, but it was actually composed by a computer.
The futurists keep telling us how the loss of certain jobs will be supplanted by new, more creative ones, but I just don't think that enough humanity has that much creativity to avoid a major world-wide job crisis. Creativity of any kind has always been a minority phenomenon, and the interests of the employers (who want cost cutting at all cost) and employees will always be at odds. Welcome to the brave new world of unintended consequences.
The futurists keep telling us how the loss of certain jobs will be supplanted by new, more creative ones, but I just don't think that enough humanity has that much creativity to avoid a major world-wide job crisis. Creativity of any kind has always been a minority phenomenon, and the interests of the employers (who want cost cutting at all cost) and employees will always be at odds. Welcome to the brave new world of unintended consequences.
22
I read The Mainichi daily on Kindle. They report in English on Japanese and world news. Just a week or so ago they mentioned that it takes a robot 30 min. to fold one towel so automation has severe limits. And the drive for automation in Japan is very high because of their demographics. If we look at Japan we can see where automation can and cannot be used successfully. It seems the big scare about automation is overblown. Just last March an entire air-conditioning factory was dismantled and moved to Mexico to take advantage of cheap labor .Is all this talk of robotics perhaps meant to scare people into working for lower and lower wages?
29
Things are going to get automated, however retail will not get as much as they want. It's simple numbers, and in the end, it's not cost effective. You all have noticed, stamp machines, a very simple device in reality no longer exsist in post offices. Why? They are too expensive to maintain these days. Yes some things will get automated, but real retail isn't one of them. A Mcdonalds clerk, yes, but thats about the extent of it.
4
I recently discovered that I can order stamps through Amazon! Forgetting to buy stamps at the grocery store (no way we're going to stand in line at the post office) was a source of occasional fights between my spouse and I.
Now we just go to Amazon. Problem solved. I love Amazon.
Now we just go to Amazon. Problem solved. I love Amazon.
3
Debra:
You can order postage stamps, particularly philatelic editions, from http://www.usps.com . They charge a mailing fee which can be diluted by ordering large numbers of stamps.
You can order postage stamps, particularly philatelic editions, from http://www.usps.com . They charge a mailing fee which can be diluted by ordering large numbers of stamps.
1
That's funny. At our local Post Office, there are rarely more than two or three people on line, and the line usually moves quickly. I love Amazon's selection, service, and delivery, but for some things I will venture forth to brick & mortar.
6
Hopefully Amazon will do something to expedite the check out at Whole Foods, which is agonizingly slow. I find myself thinking of Bob and Ray's "slow talkers of America) every time I go there.
Amazon may be automating everything. On the other hand, one of the few companies which always has someone to answer the phone (w/i a few minutes) and provide meaningful answers to questions and solutions to problems.
Amazon may be automating everything. On the other hand, one of the few companies which always has someone to answer the phone (w/i a few minutes) and provide meaningful answers to questions and solutions to problems.
2
There will be a backlash. The most benign one being loss of business. Humans crave interaction. Part of the attraction of shopping at WFs is the total experience, which is very pleasant- including good customer service from location to location. There's a growing movement of going back to shopping smaller and more local. Robot cashiers will only accelerate this trend.
29
keep raising the minimum wage and more young people will not be able to get their first job which is nearly always the hardest to find. the Left with its constant harping on a living wage is the cause. not every job has to pay a living wage. people who are low wage earners do not live in a vacuum. they may live with others and combine their resources to lead comfortable lives.
The Left does not give an iota if a person can't find work because the minimum wage to be paid is above their productivity level in their minds they should receive welfare and food stamps for life than a low paying job which is the first step up the job ladder for many.
The Left does not give an iota if a person can't find work because the minimum wage to be paid is above their productivity level in their minds they should receive welfare and food stamps for life than a low paying job which is the first step up the job ladder for many.
6
Most minimum-wage jobs are not the bottom of a career ladder, and many people get stuck there for a long time. People stuck there cannot fulfill their roles as consumers, and an economy with lots of minimum-wage jobs will be smaller than one with more better-paying jobs. When that famous communist Henry Ford raised the wages of his workers (and forced other companies to do the same to keep a stable workforce) he expanded the market for his cars and could thereby expand his business.
15
Like it or not, increasing automation is clearly the direction most jobs are going, which points to the need for a larger rethinking of the role of jobs and wages in society. The solution will drive conservatives crazy, as it goes against everything they believe, but it is very possibly a universal guaranteed minimum wage, regardless of whether someone is working or not.
21
David, I agree rethinking should happen. IMO a minimum wage isn't the whole answer. The bigger picture, and even more jarring, is that the corporate view of what's profitable has to be replaced. That view is based on an every man for himself, winners take all, model. The idea of "raising all boats" is a foreign concept when competitive advantage is the game.
That is why affordable housing, environmental protection, rehabilitation, solid education, good healthcare and so forth are an anathema to the corporation that isn't interested in things that help everybody, rather than increasing their advantage over everybody.
That is why affordable housing, environmental protection, rehabilitation, solid education, good healthcare and so forth are an anathema to the corporation that isn't interested in things that help everybody, rather than increasing their advantage over everybody.
11
It might also be useful to consider that automated checkouts aren't exactly new, and in fact there takeover of everything has been predicted by the robot faithful for forever. Hasn't happened, indeed recently automated checkout has been reduced.
2
So far, the automated checkout isn't very efficient. You have to scan each item by hand. If you're a single person with fewer than ten items, okay. But if you're a family and have multiple items, I'm certainly not faster than the cashier and people behind start sighing by the time I get to item six. I think the Amazon phone model at least sounds different since you just point your phone at things and don't have scan bar codes. The scanners often don't work well, and fruit and veg have to be weighed before scanning. Meat, fish, cheese, and bread often don't have bar codes. Amazon is suggesting a different way that may be more or less efficient, but not the customer doing the cashier's job to avoid a line as is currently done.
4
"You wave your phone in front of anything you want to buy, then walk out. In the back, robots retrieve your items from a warehouse and deliver them to your home via driverless car or drone."
This is an improvement? So I go to the store, but wait (how long?) to get my items? Meanwhile, a driverless car replicates my trip, doubling emissions and congestion, or a drone adds to noise pollution. Do I need to plan my day so that I'm there for the delivery, lest perishables expire? Or are they kept cool in something that then gets thrown away? And if the wrong items arrive? Etc.
This is an improvement? So I go to the store, but wait (how long?) to get my items? Meanwhile, a driverless car replicates my trip, doubling emissions and congestion, or a drone adds to noise pollution. Do I need to plan my day so that I'm there for the delivery, lest perishables expire? Or are they kept cool in something that then gets thrown away? And if the wrong items arrive? Etc.
178
No, they must intend online shopping, already possible with a local grocery chain here.
It works surprisingly well, but Amazon's search engine would be a big improvement.
Plus it stopped working after I upgraded my iPad to the latest o/s. But I guess they're not a big enough outfit to be compatible with every device and o/s.
Again, Amazon would never let their system get behind for a common device like an iPad.
It works surprisingly well, but Amazon's search engine would be a big improvement.
Plus it stopped working after I upgraded my iPad to the latest o/s. But I guess they're not a big enough outfit to be compatible with every device and o/s.
Again, Amazon would never let their system get behind for a common device like an iPad.
Automation and the resulting end of most low-wage service jobs in the next 10-20 years is going to lead to some serious political instability in the US. 20-30% unemployment is a recipe for disaster.
167
The Whole Foods in Brooklyn and London have long check out lines and would benefit from new technology. I am very excited about the future of food shopping
2
I'm going to continue to go to my local store as I live nowhere near a Whole Foods anyway.
2
I refuse to use the automated check-out at the grocery store. Maybe I'm old enough that something I do count on in stores is the vanishing concept of service. If Kroger wants to automate, my suggestion is develop a robot that keeps the shelves stocked! I don't shop often at WalMart but when I do, I go to a cashier. If WalMart wants my business, it'll hire more cashiers! I'll be following Amazon's new purchase and integration with interest because I already buy many grocery items I can not reliably find (that's you, Kroger!) locally, some on a subscription basis. If Amazon could overnight produce, that'd be a fantasy come true. When I lived in NOVA, I found that "Whole Paycheck" was just too precious. I'm not a hipster but I do cook. Very interesting move on Mr. Bezos' part.
12
So where do those workers go who are going to be increasingly replaced by technological advances? At what cost to society is this exponential rate of ever newer technological efficiencies? At what point are Amazon and similar behemoths the great societal destabilizers?
Not every efficiency is responsible.
Not every efficiency is responsible.
223
Eventually we will have universal basic income for the unemployable people.
2
Well, current workers who are replaced are going to hurt, it's true. The long view is, in the future, there will be fewer "cashier material" humans around, because they and their potential descendants will have died out of the gene pool.
You mean I can't shop at Whole Foods because I don't have a cel phone? Wow!
27
I know, right? My cell phone only makes/takes calls and texts. It doesn't have any bells, never mind whistles. It's as bad as those restaurants and stores that only accept credit cards. Forget cash! Not for me, thanks. Wouldn't it be cool if all this automation created the backlash of the return of the general store?
14
I'm sure there will be a touch-sensitive screen
1
Yeah, well WF is not for the average shopper anyway. It is too specialized and overpriced. This is another example of the 1% deciding what the rest of us are going to have to live with. WF changing won't affect many of us, for now. But those changes will eventually affect all of us. Where automation is concerned, society will have to eventually have got figure out how to employ people. We can only hope we do figure it out in the long run. In the short run, it will be very painful, and the current politics of every human for themselves doesn't bode well for this lifetime.
4
Having recently tried to deal with Verizon's customer service recently gives me a new perspective on the question. I had to deal with menu options for about 15 minutes. I was put on hold for 20 minutes. When I finally got a chance to talk to an actual person, she told me since I was not calling from the phone that had registered the account---which I was not able to use because of a lapse in Verizon's service---and since I could not produce my PIN, she was not able to assist me, thank you very much.
Once Verizon robotizes its customer service, I'm confident I will receive my customer non-assistance much more efficiently.
Once Verizon robotizes its customer service, I'm confident I will receive my customer non-assistance much more efficiently.
213
Phoning any large business has become a nightmare. I'll do anything to avoid it, including trying to carry out the operation online.
I think they're doing on purpose, to get people to do things online.
I think they're doing on purpose, to get people to do things online.
7
I had a similar experience with Verizon and AT&T in a dizzying downward spiral. Search the archives for an article by their reporter Michael Hiltzik, published in 2015 or 2016. His research helped me find a solution to an ongoing, crazymaking cycle
3
One important thing in your story: the PIN. Not knowing it is like trying to get money from an ATM w/o a pin. Would you blame the bank too?
We need to find a way to automate democracy so we can eliminate politicians. All we need is a voting app for our phone and we can replace the president, congress, state legislators, country commissioners, city councils, and school boards. Supreme Court would not be necessary if we had the technology to vote every week on our phones.
189
The founders warned us of the tyranny of the majority. That's why we're a republic. The real need is to decouple government from corrupting influence (e.g., campaign contributions).
12
Excellent idea!
2
Do you really want the Trump voters to vote every week?
1
Actually, a big part of the success or failure of this trend will whether or not prices go up, down, or stay the same. If it becomes apparent that prices are going higher, consumers will go back to the low tech options that may still be available.
Also, remember that economies run on demand and when you unemploy 6 million people, that results in less spending, lower sales and falling demand. The other irony here is that Whole Foods is a chain that the vast majority of Americans can not afford to use on a regular basis. Gee this sounds like the plutocracy is trying to make inequality even more exclusive by now taking over the food market.
Also, remember that economies run on demand and when you unemploy 6 million people, that results in less spending, lower sales and falling demand. The other irony here is that Whole Foods is a chain that the vast majority of Americans can not afford to use on a regular basis. Gee this sounds like the plutocracy is trying to make inequality even more exclusive by now taking over the food market.
21
There's a chance that that checker in a grocery store is in a Union. Hence, not getting paid minimum wage. Automaton, in this case is one way to do an end run around the only effective means of raising worker's pay: unionization.
I'm a shopper at Whole Foods, regularly. My list of items is about 90% the same. Same items, same brand, same amounts. Store-to-door was a Dot com idea that didn't work out, but perhaps it's time to try it again.
Occasionally I go to the mega-store across the street. The one with 200 foot long aisles of cereal, bottled soft drinks, frozen pizza, and toilet paper. "Only in the US" at it's worst. I'd gladly use a robot to shop there if that were my only choice of stores to shop in.
I'm a shopper at Whole Foods, regularly. My list of items is about 90% the same. Same items, same brand, same amounts. Store-to-door was a Dot com idea that didn't work out, but perhaps it's time to try it again.
Occasionally I go to the mega-store across the street. The one with 200 foot long aisles of cereal, bottled soft drinks, frozen pizza, and toilet paper. "Only in the US" at it's worst. I'd gladly use a robot to shop there if that were my only choice of stores to shop in.
7
"Retail is the nation’s largest employer. Since 1980, the number of jobs in retail has reportedly grown nearly 50 percent, from 10.2 to 15.1 million. At the same time, real wages for retail workers have fallen by 11 percent while on-call scheduling, involuntary part-time work and “clopening”—where workers are required to lock up the store late at night and reopen the next morning—have wreaked havoc with workers’ lives. Not surprisingly, the retail sector also has one of the lowest rates of unionization in the economy—around the 5 percent mark under which unions have virtually no influence." - alternet.org
71
Gail - you are correct. One in four US jobs is tied to retail. I also love how there is a perception of retail jobs just being a cashier. Most specialty retailer managers also deal with hr, freight, business planning & plumbing / store maintenance. It's sad that almost 60,000 retail job cuts have been announced since the beginning of the year (hmm...don't recall any tweets about those). In my opinion , the main piece that Amazon gets is the customer instant gratification. Often retailers are out of what a customer wants, which is why they go home & order it online. For all the data analytics, they need to do a better job of providing what customers want, when & where they want it.
4
"There's a chance that that checker in a grocery store is in a union."
Fat chance of that. Unionized retail grocery chains in Michigan are now almost extinct, and our republican state oligarchy has eliminated most of the advantages of union membership.
Fat chance of that. Unionized retail grocery chains in Michigan are now almost extinct, and our republican state oligarchy has eliminated most of the advantages of union membership.
8
I refuse to use the self checkout in the supermarket even if it means waiting in a longer line because I know full well that the store is replacing a worker with my labor. That's a double loss in compensation. I'm not getting wages (in the form of a discount) for doing labor on behalf of the market nor is the employee I displaced.
318
Time is worth something too. I actually work in a grocery store and use the self-checkout every time I shop there. I'll be out the door doing other things I'd rather be doing while you're waiting in line.
You're not saving anyone's job by waiting in line. The time is coming when the work they do will be robotized, and perhaps it should be. But that's another discussion.
You're not saving anyone's job by waiting in line. The time is coming when the work they do will be robotized, and perhaps it should be. But that's another discussion.
2
I'm sorry, I just don't see it the same way. The self-checkout lines allow more customers to finish their shopping. I have gotten very tired of waiting in line for a sixteen-year-old to slowly scan everyone's groceries. Then, when it's my turn, he doesn't recognize leeks, parsnips, or serrano peppers.
5
Self-checkout is the way to go. I don't like the thought of waiting in line (although sometimes I need to do that for self-checkout). Also, people in front of me having issues with the price, etc., UGH. Self-checkout is better and besides, fewer people touching my groceries are a good thing.
1
There is always a cost to convenience--we will all pay for it one way or another.
25
Will these helpful humans jobs replace all the cashiers? Probably not. We're still going to be facing a serious employment problem. And an education one as well.