We are not a peaceful country. The writer needs to come out of his ivory tower.
32
Your excusing the radical right and indicting the liberal left for this domestic terrorist incident is not only biased, but dead wrong with the facts.
What we are now experiencing is explained in Jeffrey D. Simon's recent book, _Lone Wolf Terrorism: Understanding the Growing Threat_. Please read it.
Lone wolves have many, varied, personal and political motivations for their attacks, not just one reason (which you also admit in this column). Simon also labels their threat "technological terrorism," because lone wolves (who may have one or two enablers as did Tim McVeigh) find it easier to transmit their message, build their white-hot ire, and prepare their weapons by the use of new technologies.
The "center" has not leaned left; it has leaned right since Reagan's presidency. Compare his policies with today's Republican conservative base.
Study the rise of right wing, anti-government terrorist groups since the 1970s, beginning with the posse comitatus, continuing with the sovereignty movement, The Order, the "patriot movement" and culminating with the Oklahoma City Bombing. Christian identity and Christian Reconstructionism have fueled these movements, along with the so-called "alt-Right." All are white supremacist.
The media has ignored the many violent deaths of police officers ambushed by these severe right wingers for decades. It's no wonder you are oblivious to them. BTW, Gabby Gifford's shooter was also right wing, not just a nut case.
What we are now experiencing is explained in Jeffrey D. Simon's recent book, _Lone Wolf Terrorism: Understanding the Growing Threat_. Please read it.
Lone wolves have many, varied, personal and political motivations for their attacks, not just one reason (which you also admit in this column). Simon also labels their threat "technological terrorism," because lone wolves (who may have one or two enablers as did Tim McVeigh) find it easier to transmit their message, build their white-hot ire, and prepare their weapons by the use of new technologies.
The "center" has not leaned left; it has leaned right since Reagan's presidency. Compare his policies with today's Republican conservative base.
Study the rise of right wing, anti-government terrorist groups since the 1970s, beginning with the posse comitatus, continuing with the sovereignty movement, The Order, the "patriot movement" and culminating with the Oklahoma City Bombing. Christian identity and Christian Reconstructionism have fueled these movements, along with the so-called "alt-Right." All are white supremacist.
The media has ignored the many violent deaths of police officers ambushed by these severe right wingers for decades. It's no wonder you are oblivious to them. BTW, Gabby Gifford's shooter was also right wing, not just a nut case.
30
It is odd to call this action primarily a political shooting. Yes, the shooter was a Sanders volunteer, and, yes, he was opposed to Trump. All the same, isn't it more likely that the explanation for the attack is more closely related to mental illness, domestic violence, and the presence of guns? Facts that support this view have come out over the past several days. For example, the shooter's foster daughter killed herself by dousing herself with gasoline and immolating herself. That is not normal.
Yes, there was and perhaps still is a subset of Senator Sanders' supporters that relished his angry economic populism but did not relinquish their misogyny, opposition to gun control, xenophobia, conspiracy theories, and reactionary social views. The Portland and Virginia attacks originated within this demographic. It is unlikely that this group joined Clinton and the Democrats for the general election. Most Sanders supporters find the views of this group unacceptable. The vast majority of Democrats will not make excuses for or protect this group. The society could conceivably be pulled apart by or from the left, but that is not what has happened. The conspiracy fantasies, the falsehoods, the rage and the demonization have so far come mainly from the right.
Yes, there was and perhaps still is a subset of Senator Sanders' supporters that relished his angry economic populism but did not relinquish their misogyny, opposition to gun control, xenophobia, conspiracy theories, and reactionary social views. The Portland and Virginia attacks originated within this demographic. It is unlikely that this group joined Clinton and the Democrats for the general election. Most Sanders supporters find the views of this group unacceptable. The vast majority of Democrats will not make excuses for or protect this group. The society could conceivably be pulled apart by or from the left, but that is not what has happened. The conspiracy fantasies, the falsehoods, the rage and the demonization have so far come mainly from the right.
20
The only note worthy of reporting on is that the shooter was main stream MSNBC democrat who snapped due to the torrent of hate Trump all the time coverage of this publication and the main stream media. Those are the dirty little facts.
12
I view this as just another mass shooting in America. Sorry. Most Republicans barely express condolences when other mass shootings involve "civilians," even school children. Their answer has always been "more guns for everyone!" So this shooting was not so much a political statement as it was just another deranged individual's acting out. It's all abhorrent, but most abhorrent is those on the right pretending that Democrats (Obama) are to blame and that the rhetoric of the left is uniquely toxic. Oh please.
28
The magical, mystical, murderous " member" extender. Thanks, NRA.
14
There is no doubt that peaceful protests, such as the Women's March, and past leaders such as MLK Jr. and Alice Paul, thankfully, have taught us to seek a peaceful means to change. Violence is horrid which brings immeasurable cruelty and suffering to victims, family, and communities. I had two instantaneous thoughts on the news of the VA shooting - how will these Republicans react on future gun laws, mental health coverage, and conspiracy theory? As I listened to an AM radio station a few weeks ago, the message was pro-guns, pro-military (asking someone how many kills he had as a sniper), pro-Trump, anti-Obama (the underground Obama-gov't) and anti-taxes (NY). There was nothing balanced in that AM station message; there was only an angry ANGRY man objecting to . . . being a productive, wise, and peaceful part of his community. My faith has taught me that Christ was a liberal and if we Christians are to be just that then we are to Love the Lord with all our Heart and our Neighbor as ourselves. And thou shalt not kill.
8
It's kind of hard to "abjure the gun" when they've never been easier to acquire and carry, after 8 years of the NRA stoking fears of mass confiscation only to see gun and ammo sales tank when a rich old white male is once again elected president. We need to talk about guns, about race, about class, about hundreds of infuriating realities.
7
I'm pretty sure most people regard this as an act of terrorism. Has anyone pointed out that this man was not a Muslim? Even with this shooting, fewer than 100 people in the U.S. killed by terrorists, but over 400,000 killed by guns. No, I don't knit pink hats, but I think I have a pretty good notion of what the source of terrorism is.
7
One hundred people? The 3,000 at the World Trade Centers didn't count?
9
Oh, please.
"But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous... the derangement that he inspires or amplifies among his critics also matters." How about the derangement that he directly inspires among his /supporters/?
You should read the SPLC report about the increase in bullying, especially anti-gay and anti-immigrant bullying, in K-12 schools since Trump's campaign began.
"But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous... the derangement that he inspires or amplifies among his critics also matters." How about the derangement that he directly inspires among his /supporters/?
You should read the SPLC report about the increase in bullying, especially anti-gay and anti-immigrant bullying, in K-12 schools since Trump's campaign began.
18
Please can we stop labeling these shooters as politically, racially or religiously motivated. These people are psychopaths, sociopaths and probably both. The real issue is how best to keep lethal weapons out of their hands. I cannot see how the vast majority of people in this country would not support a comprehensive method of screening people who want to buy guns. Of course there many ways to currently sidestep these regulations but this seems like a good first step. Private US citizens who possess guns inappropriately are a far greater threat to the public than immigrants and refugees.
14
seems this article opines about the "normalcy" of the perp's views from afar, as the perp can not be interviewed, and the author performed no psychological or medical analysis of his condition while alive. Don't use the word "normal" when we're talking about someone who deliberately shot at people because he disagrees. That must never be normal in the USA. Never.
4
No mention here of the shooter's history of domestic violence, or how easy it is to get a gun in America. We have plenty of warning signs of what turns a disgruntled, upset person into a killer, but we ignore them; and we then make it easy for them to kill by practically giving them a gun.
A poisoned political climate, easy access to guns, and indifference to warning sings. No wonder we are all so anxious.
A poisoned political climate, easy access to guns, and indifference to warning sings. No wonder we are all so anxious.
12
No one can predict whether a seemingly normal person will commit an act of violence, but as Ross knows well, we are suffering from a lack of community in this country.
The key text explaining this lack is Robert Nisbet's book, The Quest for Community, published in 1953, and reissued recently with a valuable Introduction by Ross.
The key text explaining this lack is Robert Nisbet's book, The Quest for Community, published in 1953, and reissued recently with a valuable Introduction by Ross.
3
Yes, we only need to listen to angry white men who vote for republicans....
18
I wonder how the NRA shills in Congress will sell the silencer debate now.
19
Massacre is a bit much. You guys only care about this stuff when it impacts you. Want to know what a massacre is? The black people killed by police in 2016, almost 1000 people. People, I say. Now that is a massacre. Please start caring about that!
28
Are you saying that every black person killed by the police last year was murdered, or just killed unnecessarily? Ordinarily I would understand a massacre to be an unnecessary or indiscriminate slaughter of a large number of people or animals, and usually I would understand the word to refer to one incident in which this occurs. Can you say how 1000 different incidents in which 1000 different police officers killed 1000 different people conform to my definition or do you use the word differently? Finally, Douthat said it was an "attempted massacre." Why is that too much exactly? Perhaps because he was not indiscriminate?
4
That number is dwarfed by the number of abortions each day in this country. The US has a very narrow definition of violence.
5
I found the statements of Hodgkinson's brother and wife troubling and I presume ( hope) they are being questioned by the FBI. The brother said Hodgkinson came to DC to "protest Trump." What exactly does that mean? Is it the same as "self-investigate?" The wife said he came to DC to do his taxes. No one has to come to DC to do their taxes. Something is rotten in the explanations of these two and I hope they are not let off the hook because they are old and from the Midwest.
6
No, you would be amazed at how naive people can be.
5
Hodgkinson was normal only if you think that beating up women is normal. He was known to be a violent maniac. Do you think he choked his grandniece and dragged her by the hair because she voted for Romney? If you claim that the actions of Loughner (and McVeigh and Roof and Dear and Urbanksi and Jackson and Christian and...) had nothing to do with right-wing politics, then you don't get to claim that Hodgkinson's actions were the normal actions of a man driven by leftist politics. And if you do claim this, then the right wing has a lot more to answer for in the last couple decades than the left does. Enough with the false equivalencies. The *electable* right wing has far outpaced the electable left in its violent rhetoric and actions over the last several years, and anyone with eyes knows it. Gianforte was elected, for God's sake -- is he closer to Manson than the Tea Party? Get your own house in order.
30
What is normal for Americans is using a gun to attack people they don't know to express themselves. I don't think that political agendas of the right can fairly be said to be expressed in this way more often than those of the left in our country. Douthat's point is that this shooter's politics which were the apparent motivation for what he did, unlike the more extreme and frankly nutty ideas of many others, are of a fairly normal variety. The first thing he says is that this is unusual, and his overall point is that it would be a very bad thing if it became less so. This is as much as saying that supporters of Sanders are unlikely to be shooters, yet you find reason to take offense.
3
Did I miss Hillary and Obama's acknowledgement and condemnation of this shooting? No, I did not. They haven't said this was wrong. It is the people resisting.
.
Now, consider this. If your political views include the tight control of guns or their complete elimination, you probably don't have much experience with guns. Might I suggest you refrain from the use of said guns. You can still resist, just do what you know how to do. Yell, break windows, paint graffiti, knit little caps and the other stuff you do so well.
.
Not everyone has their own personal security detail. Umm, they are their own security detail. Coexist. Peace out. Love.
.
Now, consider this. If your political views include the tight control of guns or their complete elimination, you probably don't have much experience with guns. Might I suggest you refrain from the use of said guns. You can still resist, just do what you know how to do. Yell, break windows, paint graffiti, knit little caps and the other stuff you do so well.
.
Not everyone has their own personal security detail. Umm, they are their own security detail. Coexist. Peace out. Love.
5
i really tire of remarks about guns, there are plenty of liberals with guns and there are plenty of conservatives with guns. stupid remarks the opinions of liberals "without guns" is clearly not relevant and its sad it takes this kind of violence to point out to people the foolishness of those remarks.
2
Yes, you did miss their acknowledgements. Just because Fox didn't report something doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Do a little research before commenting.
Do a little research before commenting.
13
To me, this shooting was about the availabilty of guns to nearly anyone who wants one for whatever reason.
To me, this shooting was about the kind of guns, military grade, that gun buyers are buying.
We will have more shootings of all kinds, crime based, political terrorism, domestic violence, suicidal, accidental, temporary enragement, and insanity inspired, until something is done about the gun business in this country.
To me, this shooting was about the kind of guns, military grade, that gun buyers are buying.
We will have more shootings of all kinds, crime based, political terrorism, domestic violence, suicidal, accidental, temporary enragement, and insanity inspired, until something is done about the gun business in this country.
17
I would dearly love to read your op-ed when Gabby Gifford was shot and numerous more killed than in this so-called attempted massacre. Yeah, I won't hold my breath.
11
I'd like to point out to Ross that calling out hypocrisy wins no arguments and pointing to it forfeits your right to claim knowledge of where our political center lies.
4
Sorry Russ, but your transparent attempt to blame the left for this shooting failed and has just added another reason for some unhinged lunatic to gather his assault rifle and make another "political" point.
Because, so many in this country, whether they be left, right or center, are unable to admit we are a very sick and polarized country that needs to stop pointing fingers and listen to each other as adults, which you, Mr. Douthat, seem unwilling or incapable of doing.
Because, so many in this country, whether they be left, right or center, are unable to admit we are a very sick and polarized country that needs to stop pointing fingers and listen to each other as adults, which you, Mr. Douthat, seem unwilling or incapable of doing.
7
You make some good points, but the attempt to pin violence on the mainstream of liberalism is stretched at best. And some really important trends were left out:
1. The truly troubled background of the shooter. This was not a normal, stable person.
2. The appallingly easy availability of guns, including to those with psychological and mental health issues.
3. The true normalization of violence on the political right. Including by the current president. Who bragged he could shoot someone in the street and get away with it. Who implied the second amendment rights of his followers could be used to remove his opponent. Who mocked a disabled person. Who boasted about sexually assaulting women. And who did all these things to raucous cheers and applause.
Stretch and grasp for equivalency in overall responsibility all you want, but hands will remain empty because it's not there.
1. The truly troubled background of the shooter. This was not a normal, stable person.
2. The appallingly easy availability of guns, including to those with psychological and mental health issues.
3. The true normalization of violence on the political right. Including by the current president. Who bragged he could shoot someone in the street and get away with it. Who implied the second amendment rights of his followers could be used to remove his opponent. Who mocked a disabled person. Who boasted about sexually assaulting women. And who did all these things to raucous cheers and applause.
Stretch and grasp for equivalency in overall responsibility all you want, but hands will remain empty because it's not there.
22
If I was republicans I would be shame to say anything, specially defending the indefensible . People reached their limited, obviously with guns free for all , the normal the sick, the agitated, the agressor , the mentally will, we explode.
2
A local I've met taught school here for some years and now owns a small business. He's nearing retirement age, as is his bulky & intelligent Golden Lab dog. I know his dog better, as the animal is of superior disposition and will drop a ball at your feet, understanding that humans like to play with friendly dogs, a sort of canine diplomacy that atones for other less friendly pets. It no doubt picked up the kind temperament from the owner, as dogs will do. We've talked on that basis when he and I were out walking the beach, often after storms. One Xmas week he handed me a little bottle of maple syrup in the shape of a leaf, "It's homemade, I thought you might be out here in this weather. Enjoy!"
I keep it as a reminder of what a good neighborly human being can be like in passing. I don't recall his name ("the guy with the very good dog") as we are not social friends. What I do recall is him relating to me that he did time in federal prison for violent anti-war activity, meeting in there, ironically enough, more than one Watergate conspirator. His crime was assisting to burn down an ROTC building on a college campus in California.
The crime does not make the man. In my view the liars holding office, running that criminal war in Vietnam while abusing our system of democratic government at home, were the sociopaths. This particular arsonist is an American Hero. I would love to have access to some Watergater's dogs, I bet they are not nearly as good.
I keep it as a reminder of what a good neighborly human being can be like in passing. I don't recall his name ("the guy with the very good dog") as we are not social friends. What I do recall is him relating to me that he did time in federal prison for violent anti-war activity, meeting in there, ironically enough, more than one Watergate conspirator. His crime was assisting to burn down an ROTC building on a college campus in California.
The crime does not make the man. In my view the liars holding office, running that criminal war in Vietnam while abusing our system of democratic government at home, were the sociopaths. This particular arsonist is an American Hero. I would love to have access to some Watergater's dogs, I bet they are not nearly as good.
8
The common denominator in most of these attacks are military-grade (aka "assault") rifles which, unlike a semiauto hunting rifle, allow a single individual to lay down as many rounds as he (always he) can carry. The federal assault rifle ban was an imminently sensible piece of legislation and should be reinstated (on new sales). We should also institute a buyback of these weapons ($1000-1500 per) which will reduce supply and keep prices high (and therefore reduce chance of derilects, schizophrenics obtaining/keeping.
7
Most liberals hate Conservative policies.
Most Conservatives believe Liberals are trying to destroy our country and their way of life. Let's not sit here today kidding ourselves.
Most Conservatives believe Liberals are trying to destroy our country and their way of life. Let's not sit here today kidding ourselves.
1
I would very much like to "say what I believe" as would millions of Americans who voted for Donald Trump. But all I read in the New York Times are not only wall to wall attacks on Trump, but provocations as well. Mainstream TV, with the exception of Fox, is no different. Sunday morning talk shows are kangaroo courts.
Yes Trump's behavior is unpresidential at best and bizarre at worst. But as Douthat points out, Trump is more hapless than dangerous. But the responses to him ARE dangerous, some individually, but definitely taken as a whole - and they very well may have consequences leading to violence.
Here is what I would like to say but never hear in my NYTimes nor on almost any TV outlet:
1. Just exactly what are the charges against the President, that justifies so much investigation? Are the investigations the opposition's way of neutralizing Trump's presidency and getting to 2018 elections - in other words, fishing and fishing and more fishing. And why don't journalists deal with the issues confronting our country and criticize Congress for not dealing with the issues?
2. Refusing to deal with legitimate conservative policies which the Republicans have a right to implement as the result of their mandate from the elections by attacking the bizarre behavior of Trump is clever politics but dishonest and serves to widen the gap between our nation even further. Why don't journalists, who are supposed to be independent, make these distinctions?
Yes Trump's behavior is unpresidential at best and bizarre at worst. But as Douthat points out, Trump is more hapless than dangerous. But the responses to him ARE dangerous, some individually, but definitely taken as a whole - and they very well may have consequences leading to violence.
Here is what I would like to say but never hear in my NYTimes nor on almost any TV outlet:
1. Just exactly what are the charges against the President, that justifies so much investigation? Are the investigations the opposition's way of neutralizing Trump's presidency and getting to 2018 elections - in other words, fishing and fishing and more fishing. And why don't journalists deal with the issues confronting our country and criticize Congress for not dealing with the issues?
2. Refusing to deal with legitimate conservative policies which the Republicans have a right to implement as the result of their mandate from the elections by attacking the bizarre behavior of Trump is clever politics but dishonest and serves to widen the gap between our nation even further. Why don't journalists, who are supposed to be independent, make these distinctions?
4
Charges follow an investigation. They do not lead it. The Congress and the Justice Department feel that there enough evidence of wrongdoing to warrant an investigation, evidence involving inexplicable contacts among Trump's cohort with Russian officials who were likely involved in the very real trashing of our electoral process. There has been lying about these contacts by Michael Flynn, Jeff Sessions and Jared Kushner, Mr. Sessions laughable denials notwithstanding. It takes a willful act of partisan blindness to insist that there is nothing to see here. Perhaps it will all come to nothing - at that point, you will be glad there was an investigation. Or perhaps Trump and/or his closest associates will be found to have encouraged, abetted and supported the Russian efforts - at which point, you will be glad there was an investigation. You and I and every American have everything to gain and nothing to lose by following this trail.
7
What message do you think that Trump, republicans and conservatives sent to America by inviting Ted Nugent to the White House to pose with Trump in the Oval Office. Let me remind you about the language of Ted Nugent about Obama, Clinton and liberals. Murder and assault....
I can't see Trump as hapless either, his behavior is destructive and will damage us for another round of repair work when a democrat gets elected president next.
I can't see Trump as hapless either, his behavior is destructive and will damage us for another round of repair work when a democrat gets elected president next.
5
Ddi you say the same thing when Obama was elected with massive majorities and without the benefit of gerrymandering and voter suppression.
Even Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy have acknowledged that Trump is in the pay of Russians ( they now claim it is a joke, of course). There is no mandate for conservative policies. Yes an election was won but a mandate...how laughable!
Even Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy have acknowledged that Trump is in the pay of Russians ( they now claim it is a joke, of course). There is no mandate for conservative policies. Yes an election was won but a mandate...how laughable!
6
Another way to look at this is that Trumpism is so manifestly evil, and the GOP agenda such an unacceptable atrocity, that even a relatively moderate, seemingly sane person can be driven to violence. That does not bode well, because there are millions of normal, everyday people who share the shooter's views about Trump, and worse, for the simple reason that they are quite a reasonable set of conclusions, based on known facts. A certain percentage of this very large and growing group, as with any group, will be dangerously unmoored. But the sheer numbers of those who consider Trump to be an existential threat to America and the world, a view he validates nearly daily with his words and actions, plus the GOP-sponsored ubiquity of hand-held weapons of mass destruction, makes it unlikely this will be the last act of violence directed at Trump and his supporters. Trump has chosen his words and actions, and others have chosen to support him. Choices have consequences. Extreme choices have extreme consequences.
6
Mr. Douthat, you neglected to mention the fact that right wing militias and gun sales flourished while Barack Obama was in office. You might check with the Southern Poverty Law Center if Trump'selection has reversed that tide.
I think there's still much to learn about what drove Mr. Hodgkinson towards attempted murder but I'm confident he didn't reverse his political views before he showed up at that baseball field. That being said, I am more afraid of heavily armed, right winged, middle aged, white men running around in the woods of southern Appalachia conducting maneuvers against against ATF agents. We need to be fearful of them as well as the occasional demented Liberal.
I think there's still much to learn about what drove Mr. Hodgkinson towards attempted murder but I'm confident he didn't reverse his political views before he showed up at that baseball field. That being said, I am more afraid of heavily armed, right winged, middle aged, white men running around in the woods of southern Appalachia conducting maneuvers against against ATF agents. We need to be fearful of them as well as the occasional demented Liberal.
7
What should frighten everyone is that a man with such normal liberal Democrat views felt entirely comfortable in attempting a mass assassination. It says a lot for what passes for normal liberal Democrat views.
5
People who attempt to kill other people in a mass shooting are not normal regardless of their political views. It says a lot about your conservative Republican views.
5
What should frighten everyone are demented commentators who use the name of a liberal congressman from Minnesota to spew divisive rhetoric.
3
An average of 30 people per day in America die from firearms. A lot of them are suicides, others are family members and/or co-workers, and occasionally they are mass shootings that make the news. Rarely are these shootings analyzed at the local, let alone national level.
The "political shooting" is only the tip of a huge invisible iceberg of death in daily American life. There lies the problem. We have made firearms ownership into some kind of sacred right that cannot be abridged even if the person getting the weapon is, at least temporarily, insane.
The majority of Americans support complete checks before handing a lethal weapon over to anyone while a very small percentage of Americans lobby for unlimited access to firearms for everyone.
This political shooting is going to get the same result from our elected officials and those lobbying for zero restrictions as every other nationally reported shooting. Perhaps in the end we will see armed baseball and other recreational sports as a result. Combine our national pastimes - baseball and killing each other.
The "political shooting" is only the tip of a huge invisible iceberg of death in daily American life. There lies the problem. We have made firearms ownership into some kind of sacred right that cannot be abridged even if the person getting the weapon is, at least temporarily, insane.
The majority of Americans support complete checks before handing a lethal weapon over to anyone while a very small percentage of Americans lobby for unlimited access to firearms for everyone.
This political shooting is going to get the same result from our elected officials and those lobbying for zero restrictions as every other nationally reported shooting. Perhaps in the end we will see armed baseball and other recreational sports as a result. Combine our national pastimes - baseball and killing each other.
7
It would be nice to believe that Donald is only inept, and it's true that he hasn't been able to pass any significant legislation, but in the meantime, he's gutting federal agencies and appointing right-wing conspiracy theorists to the federal bench.
10
If Scalise was not present it would have been a massacre.
Due to his leadership position he had a personal security detail. None of the others were protected.
Due to his leadership position he had a personal security detail. None of the others were protected.
4
In the past twelve months, how many violent attacks on people in America have been carried out by extremists of the Right, and how many by extremists of the Left? Weren't two people just killed in Portland for coming to the aid of Muslim women who were being attacked by a Right wing maniac? Many more acts of violence have been perpetrated by the Right than by the Left since the election, no?
As we all know, Trump repeatedly encouraged violent behavior against protesters at his rallies during the 2016 campaign and even offered to pay the legal bills of any supporter who acted on that encouragement. Can you name any Democratic candidate in 2016 who did that? No, you can't. Can you explain how any decent, law abiding person can vote for a man who does that? Try it. I don't think you can.
Stop writing "false equivalence" stories claiming both sides are the same, Mr. Douthat. It's dishonest.
As we all know, Trump repeatedly encouraged violent behavior against protesters at his rallies during the 2016 campaign and even offered to pay the legal bills of any supporter who acted on that encouragement. Can you name any Democratic candidate in 2016 who did that? No, you can't. Can you explain how any decent, law abiding person can vote for a man who does that? Try it. I don't think you can.
Stop writing "false equivalence" stories claiming both sides are the same, Mr. Douthat. It's dishonest.
11
Scalise's serious condition is because he was shot with an AR-15 which does incredible damage to the person, much more than a normal gun.
Maybe the Republicans will begin to rethink their blind allegiance to the NRA.
But, I doubt it.
Maybe the Republicans will begin to rethink their blind allegiance to the NRA.
But, I doubt it.
13
One thing we can count on from Ross Douthat is that he has already reached his conclusion about issues not yet raised; now he will pick and choose among his preconceptions to justify his conclusion.
As one other commenter has observed, the solution here is not symmetrical. While physical violence from the left is not unheard of, the proclivity for physical violence and even deadly force from the right is quite pronounced.
This is not about politics, Ross...this is about legislators refusing to act in the interests of the nation by establishing reasonable restrictions on access to firearms.
But, you're never going to say that, are you?
As one other commenter has observed, the solution here is not symmetrical. While physical violence from the left is not unheard of, the proclivity for physical violence and even deadly force from the right is quite pronounced.
This is not about politics, Ross...this is about legislators refusing to act in the interests of the nation by establishing reasonable restrictions on access to firearms.
But, you're never going to say that, are you?
5
As a Democrat, I would respect Republicans infinitely more if they would stand up and remove the extremely dangerous and inept head of their party from the presidency before he does irreversible damage to the interests of the US.
That I could respect.
That I could respect.
5
"because our centrist elites are actually center-left"? Yeah, right. Movement conservatism has reformed the Republican party into a Communist-type part full of apparatchiks whose sole loyalty is to the party. They elected Trump even though he is a proven liar and courted the wackos who believe Alex Jones. There is no equivalent on the left in the USA. Equating Sean Hannity, serial liar, with Kathy Griffin is simply irrational. Kathy Griffin did one thing off color, Hannity, Jones, Limbaugh, and the many other right-wing propagandists are out there every day.
12
Is the Murdoch family not elite? There is narrative that only liberals have media power - that only liberals are elite. Are the Kochs, Gingrich, Adleson and the like not elite? Are they not powerful?
It is a 50/50 slice.
Actually a 98%/2% slice, but I am not getting into THAT here.
It is a 50/50 slice.
Actually a 98%/2% slice, but I am not getting into THAT here.
6
"As Trump proves more hapless than dangerous...". Really Ross? Rolling back environmental regulations strike General Mattis as dangerous, Climate Change is a major National Security issue he proclaimed. Rolling back healthcare will kill approximately 25-33,000 people a year according to CBO. I call that dangerous and heartless, especially in view of our percentage of GDP spent on defense vs the rest of civilized nations.
Texas, huge supporters in the haplessness of Trump now has the highest percentage of maternity related deaths in the developed world and their legislature turned its collective head from addressing any woman's health reforms to change that unconscionable statistic.
Trump's budget is equally blind to women's ssues. No, I think Trump is harming the U.S. on many fronts deliberately, not through being hapless.
Texas, huge supporters in the haplessness of Trump now has the highest percentage of maternity related deaths in the developed world and their legislature turned its collective head from addressing any woman's health reforms to change that unconscionable statistic.
Trump's budget is equally blind to women's ssues. No, I think Trump is harming the U.S. on many fronts deliberately, not through being hapless.
7
Douthat uses false equivalencies to blame "the left" for a culture of politically motivated violence going back to the still-feared 1960's. The argument doesn't pass Ron Wyden's "smell test". Kathy Griffin is equivalent to Sean Hannity? Really? One is a buffoon who engages in low grade rhetoric, and the other is a comedienne, sort of. Jeremy Corbin is the left wing Marine Le Pen? Really? One wants to redstribute wealth, and the other wants to redistribute "others" out of France. The reality is that Trump has fostered an atmosphere in which extremists of all leanings feel free to act on their worst impulses, and America's gun culture allows them to "weaponize" their violence on a mass scale. Trying to blame the current intemperate zeitgeist on Vietnam War protests in the '60s doesn't move us forward.
8
Okay I'll say what I believe, please stop carrying water along with your fellow conservative pundits and Republican congressmen for trump, the NRA, FOX, those who would deny universal health care including mental health and the religious hate mongerers. Violence in the form of mass murders is NOT a partisan issue. It is a result of mentally and emotionally unstable people that should have been given mental health screenings and professional care not guns. You are part of the problem, become part of the solution.
9
Ross Douthat again writes an amazingly illogical column tainted by his neo conservative bias. i am 82 years old and a 39 year old is going to lecture me on the reasons for the turmoil on our campuses in 1968, eleven years before He was born. How is that for chutzpah! In 1968 this country was more than four years into a war begun on a fabricated incident in the gulf of Tonkin under a democratic president and continued for another six years under Richard Nixon, another obstructor of justice, that ended in defeat, with 50,000 killed and hundreds of thousands physically and mentally wounded. Young men were confronted with death in a bad war being irresponsibly conducted by an out of touch military machine. Why would their not be sometimes violent protests. What is the connection of 1968 to today. None! The seeds of violence in our political rhetoric today can be laid at the feet of candidate and now president Trump and not at the feet of Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.
So begins another week of a useless Douthat op-ed piece brought to us by a management at the NY Times that fires copy editors but continues to employ incompetents like Douthat, with a penchant for ignoring facts.
So begins another week of a useless Douthat op-ed piece brought to us by a management at the NY Times that fires copy editors but continues to employ incompetents like Douthat, with a penchant for ignoring facts.
12
So long as white Christians continue their vile unwitting support of fascist Republicanism we will see America get worse and worse. Now there are millions who no longer value logic or rational thought. They are encouraged by 24/7 TV life that has no respect for truth either. What are we to do when these folks invade the government of the worlds only superpower? We can't let them rule the world. I have been observing and speaking up for decades (since the seventies) on pretty much the same issues - bad wars, inequality, and environmental destruction. But white Christians and their Republican party continue to win. Oh they can't legally persecute gays anymore but what else has improved? I was a christian in my youth - very devout. Now I'm ashamed of it. They have become the enemy of the world - along with the other religious freaks in the tribes of Abraham. It is such a childish religion really - idolatrous bible worshiping. The parables and lessons from Jesus are pretty good, if you edit and update them. But white Christians give little more than lip service to them. They seem not to understand them.
7
The latest gunman was not a liberal, who by definition is against political violence, just a true conservatives are. Those who preach or practice violence , even against reporters,are radicals.
Liberals in the 60s did not defend or excuse radicals, unlike some Republican enablers today.
The center-left elite is the main force keeping society together today, since the conservatives have allied with Trump, who has a record 60% disapproval poll.
Liberals in the 60s did not defend or excuse radicals, unlike some Republican enablers today.
The center-left elite is the main force keeping society together today, since the conservatives have allied with Trump, who has a record 60% disapproval poll.
6
I am sick of hearing how bad 60s activists were. Here were some of their accomplishments: the end of the Vietnam war as well as advances in women's rights, gay rights, civil rights of black and brown people. Ross, you may remember 1950 as a great time in (white male) America. I lived it, and believe me, with all the hidden inequalities, it was not.
14
Conservatives fully, honestly and sincerely believe that liberals are entirely to blame and have anecdotes lined up to prove it.
Liberals the same, just the other way.
Each side is completely convinced of their moral superiority and righteousness.
Liberals the same, just the other way.
Each side is completely convinced of their moral superiority and righteousness.
3
False equivelancy. The left doesn't advocate for hyper arming the nation. The left is not taking away health care. The right is. This doesn't justify violence, but it justifies action and continued vocally calling out what is wrong.
19
The right is for keeping the 2nd amendment. It isn't for "hyper arming" the nation. No proposals are out there to require that people become armed.
"The left is not taking away health care." The best way to provide health care is a policy issue. It has nothing to do with this column. Putting it in is a red herring.
"The left is not taking away health care." The best way to provide health care is a policy issue. It has nothing to do with this column. Putting it in is a red herring.
3
The left commits actual acts of violence that are politically motivated.
4
The Right is for keeping the 2nd Amendment just as they demand the 2nd Amendment to be kept - a weapons free-for-all where the psychopath and sociopath is free to arm themselves to the detriment of all. And that there are no proposals to require people become armed is not a sign of merit or good sense. It is a sign of Congressional fear that if all the people are armed, they may come gunning for them.
1
Between extreme gerrymandering, obstacles to voting, and reworking our health care system in secret, we are looking at a creeping coup that somewhat preserves the forms of democracy while gutting the reality. Trump won a very narrow victory and is trying to govern as if he had a landslide. Making it implausibly difficult for the give-and-take of democratic government to function invites unusual responses -- hopefully such as mass demonstrations, sit-ins, and mass arrests made in an orderly fashion, but possibly also responses that are outside the law in other ways.
One section of the country has a centuries-long tradition of preserving a facade of democracy while gutting the reality, and this tradition is spreading to other areas of the country. Preserving this tradition demands a willingness in the electorate to ignore or misrepresent reality, to deny that what is going on is going on. This misrepresentation demands the sort of faulty reasoning we see in the questions of gun rights or climate change, and the acceptance of the sort of propaganda produced by the Tobacco Institute as politically normal and acceptable when done by one side and the height of immorality when done by the other.
One section of the country has a centuries-long tradition of preserving a facade of democracy while gutting the reality, and this tradition is spreading to other areas of the country. Preserving this tradition demands a willingness in the electorate to ignore or misrepresent reality, to deny that what is going on is going on. This misrepresentation demands the sort of faulty reasoning we see in the questions of gun rights or climate change, and the acceptance of the sort of propaganda produced by the Tobacco Institute as politically normal and acceptable when done by one side and the height of immorality when done by the other.
15
Great comment. I had not though of it this way, but so true.
1
Republicans just recently reversed the Obama order that mentally incompetent people should be placed on the background check list. When the massacre occurred at VA Tech the Republican answer was that students should be allowed to conceal carry. When first graders were slaughtered at Sandy Hook, the Republican response was that teachers should be armed. When you continually suggest that firearms are the solution, guess what is going to happen?
19
One commonality is frustration, the lack of a road to the changes one wants or needs, and a short fuse. I see the extremes of Bernie supporters looping back to the extremes of Trump's crowds, life it unfair, others get more than me, answers are simple, and we want change NOW! Of course the grace and patience for Obama flew out the window in the midterms 'cause the supporters who wanted instant gratification didn't vote, and the anger and vitriol on the right brought out more so called TP'ers. But I see I a difference between the right and left in the courage marketing of extreme views vastly favors the right...and also by default extremist views on both sides. Clearly one missing piece, if you have a domestic violence conviction your right to own a gun, of carry it, can be restricted. Maybe and only a hunting permit, stored in a locker out of the house. Transported only to one location and then returned.
2
Thank you for saying so well what I've been thinking.
My mother did not carry water for my beliefs in the late 1960s. In fact, she was horrified and vehemently opposed, as were many of our parents, teachers and our priests that that we protested the Vietnam War and the brazen lies of our government that led us into that tragedy. It would be wise if Douthat, who wasn't alive at that time, would replace his lazy tropes with some research. But then he wouldn't be able to inject his sometimes reasonable arguments with the poison that flows in the veins of many on the right.
13
I was alive back then, and Douthat is correct. There was a violent subset of the far left, unfortunately some of them are university professors now.
2
June 18, 2017
Say what ?
Say whatever - but always know to be attentive to the listener - for we are all wise to know the value of good will and intentions to be understood respectfully.
Had this James Hodgkinson been understood in the context of - not talking to strangers - for in our complex world too often misunderstanding can be fatal and or essentially manic, drug, etc. connotations both consciously and sub - un consciously in our to often aggressive wanting to right at - at what costs?
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Say what ?
Say whatever - but always know to be attentive to the listener - for we are all wise to know the value of good will and intentions to be understood respectfully.
Had this James Hodgkinson been understood in the context of - not talking to strangers - for in our complex world too often misunderstanding can be fatal and or essentially manic, drug, etc. connotations both consciously and sub - un consciously in our to often aggressive wanting to right at - at what costs?
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
Part of what went wrong in America today is directly the result of the right-wing core being greeted with excuse-making, appeasement and halfhearted punishment from conservative authorities.
10
Do you mean like this?:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/opinion/what-liberal-snowflakes-get-r...
Oops! Sorry, used an example from the wrong side.
Oops! Sorry, used an example from the wrong side.
1
An extremely small part when compared to the hatred and vitriol that the left has been spewing for the last few decades.
3
"But because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other."
Using a word like "actually" is not appropriate here because I, for instance, feel that the opposite is true and could probably come up with as many examples to "prove" my point as you could with yours.
Using a word like "actually" is not appropriate here because I, for instance, feel that the opposite is true and could probably come up with as many examples to "prove" my point as you could with yours.
15
" But because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other."
This is the crux of Mr. Douthat's argument, and where it falls apart completely. Our centrist elites only seem center-left to someone who is on the extreme right; to those who are on the extreme left those same elites seem center-right. To those who are truly centrist, both extremes look to be exactly that, extremes.
This is the crux of Mr. Douthat's argument, and where it falls apart completely. Our centrist elites only seem center-left to someone who is on the extreme right; to those who are on the extreme left those same elites seem center-right. To those who are truly centrist, both extremes look to be exactly that, extremes.
24
The gunman doesn't sound like a liberal to me. If he hated Trump, liked Sanders and thought the rich should pay more in taxes, these seem like reasonable, moderate views. One could argue that thinking guns can solve problems is more likely a conservative trait. But this us vs. them has to stop.
Conservatives have agitators like Rush Limbaugh and liberals have unfunny comedians like Bill Maher. But who represents moderate Americans? People who think Trump is very bad news, while at the same time realizing many of Bernie's ideas, while well intentioned, were going nowhere.
Who will speak up for moderate Americans?
Conservatives have agitators like Rush Limbaugh and liberals have unfunny comedians like Bill Maher. But who represents moderate Americans? People who think Trump is very bad news, while at the same time realizing many of Bernie's ideas, while well intentioned, were going nowhere.
Who will speak up for moderate Americans?
13
YOU might consider his stand on taxes as reasonable and moderate.
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT ATTEMPTED MURDER MOTIVATED BY POLITICAL ANIMOSITY for those who don't agree with you?
JR apparently considers himself/herself to be a "moderate Ameican" (leaving aside the blood lust of course)!
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT ATTEMPTED MURDER MOTIVATED BY POLITICAL ANIMOSITY for those who don't agree with you?
JR apparently considers himself/herself to be a "moderate Ameican" (leaving aside the blood lust of course)!
1
And, of course, the easy access to guns in America is never discussed. James Hodgkinson, a man with a history of spousal abuse, was allowed to easily get a gun and the Republican answer is more guns. Even when it was one of their own shot this time. More guns. That's the answer.
27
Thankfully, shocking to say, Hodginson used a gun. If there were no access to guns, he would have used his other sole possession, his van filled with 20 gallons of gas, to run over the numerous defenseless on an open field and there would've surely been many that died.
I agree. But the sad truth is that America is so awash in guns already that gun control legislation would do little to prevent access by people who are determined to acquire them. As the saying goes, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
There's been a lot of rough talk lately but I haven't heard Bernie Sanders, or any leader of what passes for the "left" in America, call for a "second amendment solution" to anybody or anything. This guy Hodgkinson was the kind of trouble that gets you listed as a person not allowed to own a firearm. In some jurisdictions the police would have paid an abuser like him a visit to collect his guns.
The victim was a staunch opponent of gun control and voted to defeat the most recent House bill that would strengthen background checks. That is enough irony for one day, I think.
The victim was a staunch opponent of gun control and voted to defeat the most recent House bill that would strengthen background checks. That is enough irony for one day, I think.
30
I'm afraid this is just the beginning. The current political climate where the left and right have dehumanized one another, coupled with untreated mental illness and ready access to firearms, is leading to a perfect storm of violence. I don't think the next few years will be pretty. Sorry for the pessimism.
14
Lone wolf killers seem to be embolden by the powerful weapons soon available in vending machines at the mall. These weapons (as noted in a New York Times story) simply liquefy vita organs as both the velocity and mass of the projectile are so lethal. Otherwise, military style weapons are everywhere and one can find psychotic medication and ammunition in any given cartridge belt. Surely, 1/5 of the population is crazy and should not be allowed to carry sharp objects or 50 caliber machine guns. Irrespective of ill will, politics or hatefulness, allowing crazy people to be military weaponized is aborts as smart as swimming the English Channel wearing 1944 style army boots.
8
Surely, in excess of 99% of the population is prohibited from owning machine guns now, and those very few that do, mostly business entities like tourist gun ranges, are under heavy restrictions and required to be registered with ATF. Fully automatic weapons were made broadly illegal with the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended in the 1960s, and augmented by the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act of 1986. The frequency with which Firearms restrictionists cite "machine guns" or "automatic weapons" as part of their justification makes it worth noting that one should be circumspect in expressing strong opinions on subjects one does not understand.
"weapons available in vending machines at the mall"???
Talk about being totally way off base - your whole screed is a vibrant display of ignorance.
Good lord.
Talk about being totally way off base - your whole screed is a vibrant display of ignorance.
Good lord.
1
Wake up, Ross Douthat!
As long as the neoliberals and neoconservatives who worship at the altar of predatory, late-stage capitalism continue to support a corporate culture that increases wealth inequality, despair and desperation among the majority of Americans, this type of violent behavior will only escalate. The corporate elite don't want to acknowledge this because it would mean they would have to slightly reduce their life of excessive privilege in order to contribute a bit more to those less fortunate than themselves. We live in a culture of greed, excess, and selfishness cultivated by the religion of capitalism which teaches that sociopathic ambition is the WAY. Well, we now see the fruits of that blighted ideology.
The excessive greed of Capitalism, as it is currently configured, will only lead us further along the path of economic, cultural and political suicide. We ignore the causes of this disease at our peril.
As long as the neoliberals and neoconservatives who worship at the altar of predatory, late-stage capitalism continue to support a corporate culture that increases wealth inequality, despair and desperation among the majority of Americans, this type of violent behavior will only escalate. The corporate elite don't want to acknowledge this because it would mean they would have to slightly reduce their life of excessive privilege in order to contribute a bit more to those less fortunate than themselves. We live in a culture of greed, excess, and selfishness cultivated by the religion of capitalism which teaches that sociopathic ambition is the WAY. Well, we now see the fruits of that blighted ideology.
The excessive greed of Capitalism, as it is currently configured, will only lead us further along the path of economic, cultural and political suicide. We ignore the causes of this disease at our peril.
17
Mr. Douthat knows there is no comparison of the mainstream right media and the mainstream left media.
I have neighbors who still believe the Clintons had Vince Foster murdered.
And Sean Hannity tried to continue the latest Hillary conspiracy of Seth Rich until even Fox staffers were disgusted and Hannity was asked to stop.
You reap what you sow and after 30 years of this misinformation, including Mr. Douthat's efforts, the Republican Party now has given us President Trump.
I have neighbors who still believe the Clintons had Vince Foster murdered.
And Sean Hannity tried to continue the latest Hillary conspiracy of Seth Rich until even Fox staffers were disgusted and Hannity was asked to stop.
You reap what you sow and after 30 years of this misinformation, including Mr. Douthat's efforts, the Republican Party now has given us President Trump.
22
Mr. Douthat in stating that the mainstream left enabled the radical left is way off base. It's more like the radical left woke up the establishment liberals to the fact that we were in a stupid bloody war and that it was time to do more than talk about civil rights. We do tend to oversimplify and generalize about these shootings, but it doesn't mean we should not pay attention. Inequality has created the conditions ripe for revolution. The Right, you included Mr. Douthat, are like all of us correct in condemning Hodgkinson's actions, but it would be wise to ask, "Why was he so angry?"
6
There are clearly lunatics on both the right and the left. Mr. Douthat is right that we need to restraint the fringes on both sides as best as we can. Meaningful changes are never achieved through guns as clearly shown by real hero like King and Ghandi. Progressives should strive to do better.
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” -- Ghandi
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” -- Ghandi
5
As usual, Douthat attempts to sound reasonable while condemning liberals and democrat for violence. In Douthat's clouded world view anything that the Republicans have done over the last 8 years is normal but a lone attack by a deranged man ( who just happens to be a liberal) is a "warning sign for the future of our politics". Gabby Giffords shooting wasn't a warning sign for Douthat because the shooter "was obsessed with government control grammar". Notice how he does not mention what the other things the shooter was obsessed with are sidelined parenthetically.
There is no condemnation of the vileness that Douthat and his republicans have vented on Democrats ( Obama and Hillary Clinton in particular) over the last many years. NO condemnation of the vile person who currently occupies the White House - just excuses, as all republicans seem to make, for his haplessness and lack of experience. And then of course the reflexive blaming of the media and liberals. And then the nerve to say that pointing out that Giffords shooter was a Palin fan "will make things more dangerous".
The problem Mr. Douthat is your inability to condemn the excesses and vitriol of your own side. The polarization started by Reagan(with his speak no evil about other republicans) and Gingrich (everything about him) and continued by a majority of republicans who had been corrupted by big money and who looked at politics as a blood sport.
There is no condemnation of the vileness that Douthat and his republicans have vented on Democrats ( Obama and Hillary Clinton in particular) over the last many years. NO condemnation of the vile person who currently occupies the White House - just excuses, as all republicans seem to make, for his haplessness and lack of experience. And then of course the reflexive blaming of the media and liberals. And then the nerve to say that pointing out that Giffords shooter was a Palin fan "will make things more dangerous".
The problem Mr. Douthat is your inability to condemn the excesses and vitriol of your own side. The polarization started by Reagan(with his speak no evil about other republicans) and Gingrich (everything about him) and continued by a majority of republicans who had been corrupted by big money and who looked at politics as a blood sport.
20
What a snow- I am!!
This dissection into GOP and Dem, while finger-pointing and excusing his favorites, leaves me wanting to cry.
This dissection into GOP and Dem, while finger-pointing and excusing his favorites, leaves me wanting to cry.
4
It is false, it's not true, it's Fake News.
The narrative that Palin or right-wing hate radio instigated the Gabby Gifford shooter.
At the time, the MSM had scoured the earth and turned every rock to find a connection, and none could be found. This editorial page also had to publish a retraction recently for replaying that fake story.
The narrative that Palin or right-wing hate radio instigated the Gabby Gifford shooter.
At the time, the MSM had scoured the earth and turned every rock to find a connection, and none could be found. This editorial page also had to publish a retraction recently for replaying that fake story.
4
RS, Palin posted a map of the country showing bullseye over districts occupied by Democrats. Politics is one thing; using incendiary symbols is another.
3
This commentary is truly disturbing. It is akin to a man who beats his wife, and then says, "we were both wrong."
There has been a pattern of organized and escalating violence by the left since before the election. The violence on campus, becomes more and more overt, to the point of an Evergreen professor having to flee campus for his safety.
I could give example after example, and list story after story, but why? You'd dismiss it all just as casually.
By condoning and excusing this virulent behavior on the left, you make yourself complicit with it, and bear some of the responsibility for whatever comes next.
There has been a pattern of organized and escalating violence by the left since before the election. The violence on campus, becomes more and more overt, to the point of an Evergreen professor having to flee campus for his safety.
I could give example after example, and list story after story, but why? You'd dismiss it all just as casually.
By condoning and excusing this virulent behavior on the left, you make yourself complicit with it, and bear some of the responsibility for whatever comes next.
7
Sorry but that propaganda meme and the one in this editorial does not fly. The right started a concerted propaganda campaign in the 90s linking economic conservatives and the evangelicals. The result was the rise of Fox, Rush, Levin, Coulter, De Souza and finally the expansion with Drudge, Breitbart and RedState. The left was demonized, called traitors, weak, etc. Fake issues were raised to Congressional levels. The level of vitriol simply kept rising and Mr. Trump led the way as a private citizen, candidate and now President. With the chorus of Mr. Cruz, King, Gomert, and a bevy of state and local politicians. The right has led the last 20 or so years in real violence. Killings and seizure of government land. The reaction was bound to happen. If you make yourselves into enemies people will eventually see you as such. If you make yourself into a threat people will begin to see you as such. If you move to strip millions of healthcare left to die or suffer and older and poor children of food people will see you as inhuman and callous. Look to your own house for blame.
2
G MASON. no what is truly disturbing is how blind you are failing to recognize the sharp hate crimes by right-wing racists that are emboldened by 45. Both the number and severity of their crimes far outweigh what is happening on campuses like Evergreen.
2
Gmason, you mean like the violence at the DC Women's March, which was...ZERO. I mean zero -- no violence, no vandalism, no injuries, no arrests, among nearly a million people packed in like sardines for hours. I was there.
Stop conflating isolated examples of extremists with "a pattern of organized and escalating violence." More than half the country did not vote for Trump or what he stands for -- if we really wanted to be violent, you'd know it. Instead, we are contacting our representatives, organizing voters, and peaceably marching in the streets. Timothy McVeigh's act did not represent conservatives in general any more than your claims represent "the left" as a whole.
Stop conflating isolated examples of extremists with "a pattern of organized and escalating violence." More than half the country did not vote for Trump or what he stands for -- if we really wanted to be violent, you'd know it. Instead, we are contacting our representatives, organizing voters, and peaceably marching in the streets. Timothy McVeigh's act did not represent conservatives in general any more than your claims represent "the left" as a whole.
3
The mistake is to try to place blame for acts related to politics but that are otherwise totally and unquestionably inspired by insanity, mental illness. The deranged mind finds any cues it needs.
Washington, DC, constantly attracts a stream of the mentally imbalanced and by that I don't mean members of Congress. They come in spring, summer, fall and winter, often bearing pounds of supposed documents, sometimes real, sometimes imaginary, that show conspiracies by the nation or the whole world against one individual. The difference now is that some of them come with guns, a truly rare event only a couple of decades ago.
The shooting this week on the ball field should remind us, however, that our political talk has become too harsh, too ugly, too mean, too exaggerated and not based nearly enough on fact. The Republican party has to take primary responsibility because they are the driving force in American politics these days and have been, in various stages, since the days of Reagan.
The Republicans have built an unequaled propaganda apparatus that amplifies every shout into a scream, every scream into outrage. If you doubt this, just consider how the word "liberal" has been buried, made into a virtual curse word so that "progressive" is the cover.
We are a better people and a better nation than the paid disrupters think we are. Bit by bit, we can come down from overheated, constant hatred.
First rule, don't take your "news" from propagandists like Hannity and Limbaugh.
Washington, DC, constantly attracts a stream of the mentally imbalanced and by that I don't mean members of Congress. They come in spring, summer, fall and winter, often bearing pounds of supposed documents, sometimes real, sometimes imaginary, that show conspiracies by the nation or the whole world against one individual. The difference now is that some of them come with guns, a truly rare event only a couple of decades ago.
The shooting this week on the ball field should remind us, however, that our political talk has become too harsh, too ugly, too mean, too exaggerated and not based nearly enough on fact. The Republican party has to take primary responsibility because they are the driving force in American politics these days and have been, in various stages, since the days of Reagan.
The Republicans have built an unequaled propaganda apparatus that amplifies every shout into a scream, every scream into outrage. If you doubt this, just consider how the word "liberal" has been buried, made into a virtual curse word so that "progressive" is the cover.
We are a better people and a better nation than the paid disrupters think we are. Bit by bit, we can come down from overheated, constant hatred.
First rule, don't take your "news" from propagandists like Hannity and Limbaugh.
10
Easy guns, easy murder. We permit that for a reason. To see why, just follow the buck. The gun business makes a killing.
8
A society that is awash in guns is a society that will necessarily be awash in gun violence. This is down almost exclusively to legislators on the right who as recently as the day Scalise was shot were trying to pass a bill making it easier for every gun owner to buy a silencer.
Sorry Ross, but this moral equivalency dog you're pushing won't hunt.
Sorry Ross, but this moral equivalency dog you're pushing won't hunt.
16
How interesting, Ross, that you dismiss Jared Loughner as a semi-random lunatic as if he just happened across Gabby Giffords. You don't mention Timothy McVeigh and his thankfully inept co-conspirators. Not a word about the half-dozen right wing shooters who've attacked Planned Parenthood, black churches and synagogues in the past few years.
Of course, political violence is unacceptable from the right or the left, but your scorecard is deliberately incomplete.
Of course, political violence is unacceptable from the right or the left, but your scorecard is deliberately incomplete.
8
McVeigh was a Socialist and not a right-winger.
Yes, look it up.
Yes, look it up.
1
All the mayhem since the last election has come from the left including angry marches, riots, destruction of property, burning, assault, total resistance to the duly elected president, and now attempted murder of republicans. I fear this is producing a backlash of sympathy for Trump and the republicans. For this reason alone, the needless violence must stop.
4
there is plenty of news about emboldened racists and xenophobes who feel free to threaten violence on citizens since the election of Trump. If you haven't seen any then you are probably only watching Fox. Trump himself pointed out that he could shoot someone dead and his hard core supporters would still be there. The needless violence being threatened very regularly against people who aren't white must stop.
1
While this column is thoughtful for the most part, I think it strains at times to find "mainstream" or "liberal" roots to Hodgkinson's violence. As today’s article on his troubled domestic life suggests, the "normalcy" in Douthat's label of "Hodgkinson’s seeming normalcy" is at most a description of the shooter’s rhetoric, not of his seeming disturbed mental state. That normalcy gap undercuts Douthat’s prescriptive remedies , e.g., for “brighter lines against lesser acts of violence”, like garish TV commentators and campus protestors trying to silence invited speakers. Those lesser acts are ugly, but the disturbed mind does not need them for a pretext or authorization. Greater public civility may promote a respectful dialogue on campus and at political capitals, but it will do relatively little to moderate the actions of unhinged minds armed with lethal force.
34
Perhaps Mr. Hodgkinson just got tired waiting for Capital Washington to do something for him, rather than the Special Moneyed Interests--many of whom seem to be in favor of Donald Trump's policies--and that's because they all favor them!
Today's America seems to be focused on Fear and Greed. The greedy folks, cited above, already have more money than God; but, they still want the deck stacked in their favor, so they can amass even more. In their wanting it all, however, they have created a zero-sum game. They claim that we'll, all have more, and more, as the pie grows larger; but, the only thing that is Trickling Down, some 36 years since Ronald Reagan rolled it out, is the slippery slope, that's causing average Americans to slide into the abyss!
Meanwhile, people like Hodgkinson, middle-aged and in need of a job, just sense the fear of falling falling behind. Perhaps his lack of education, his gap in full-time employment, or his age were all closing-in on him. And maybe, it just got to a point that he just SNAPPED!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Today's America seems to be focused on Fear and Greed. The greedy folks, cited above, already have more money than God; but, they still want the deck stacked in their favor, so they can amass even more. In their wanting it all, however, they have created a zero-sum game. They claim that we'll, all have more, and more, as the pie grows larger; but, the only thing that is Trickling Down, some 36 years since Ronald Reagan rolled it out, is the slippery slope, that's causing average Americans to slide into the abyss!
Meanwhile, people like Hodgkinson, middle-aged and in need of a job, just sense the fear of falling falling behind. Perhaps his lack of education, his gap in full-time employment, or his age were all closing-in on him. And maybe, it just got to a point that he just SNAPPED!
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
2
Mr. Douthat complaining about how the media is still dominated by the "left" is like China saying its still a 3rd World country.
5
@Russell Elkin: Actually we no longer use terms like first, second and third worlds. Its considered demeaning, We speak about the developed world and the developing world to avoid offending any one or any country.
I agree, but America always persisted to insult many nations . They did all wrong and still doing , the arrogance we see in this president, is a result of the stupidity of exceptionalism .
1
Mr. Douthat: And which political party is it that refuses to consider assault weapon bans?
11
You say Trump is "more hapless than dangerous."
There is no danger in ignoring Russia's interference with the 2016 election? In parboiling the climate on which human civilization developed and exists? In privatizing public education and replacing Horace Mann's common school with separatist schools? In defunding American science, arts, and humanities? In giving away our federal lands? In removing heath insurance from 23 million citizens, despite the promise (Jan. 14) that "we're going to have health insurance for everybody"? No danger to increasing the wealth and income gaps between the 1% and everyone else?
"Scrutiny directed rightward," as you phrase it, is very well placed.
There is no danger in ignoring Russia's interference with the 2016 election? In parboiling the climate on which human civilization developed and exists? In privatizing public education and replacing Horace Mann's common school with separatist schools? In defunding American science, arts, and humanities? In giving away our federal lands? In removing heath insurance from 23 million citizens, despite the promise (Jan. 14) that "we're going to have health insurance for everybody"? No danger to increasing the wealth and income gaps between the 1% and everyone else?
"Scrutiny directed rightward," as you phrase it, is very well placed.
14
Obama is similar to Angela Merkel who is considered center-right.
Only in this country is what Douthat describes called center-left.
Only in this country is what Douthat describes called center-left.
16
Blame for this violence has been assigned to many people both on the left and on the right. However, one group that has escaped blame actually may deserve it the most. This is the Republican legislators in Congress and the Senate. These legislators have been carrying on a war on the poor and the lower middle class (healthcare bill, tax reform etc) and doing so in secret and by telling lies about it. This has been making many people angrier and angrier and at the same time their avenues for protest are being shutdown.
I am afraid that we will see more violence if this war on the poor and disadvantaged continues and those people have no other way to express their anger or fight this war.
I am afraid that we will see more violence if this war on the poor and disadvantaged continues and those people have no other way to express their anger or fight this war.
15
When the people realize what they are doing the people will take their country back from the absurds in DC on both sides. The govt is for the poeple not exclusive for the rich and any class to take from another. Touch medicaid, medicare or SS in a way other than to strengthen them and you have a major problem.
2
Any reaction this extreme is born of two things: fear and mental illness. And the thing that is driving fear right now is the unmooring by our political leaders of basic tenets of life in a civilized society: respect for facts, for common courtesy, for democratic institutions, for rule of law, for knowledge, for self restraint. There is no apparent 'normalcy' anymore, where we can safely say that there is a behavioral or political 'bridge too far'. Trump has obliterated that with the consent of 45% of voting adults and a group of Republican leaders, who, if they know better, aren't letting on. So for many people these are not safe times. And that fear, exacerbated by mental illness, makes vigilanteism a real choice for some Americans.
But let's be clear, the scorecard is still heavily weighted to the Right. Or have we forgotten the terrorizing of abortion clinics as a right wing methodology.
But let's be clear, the scorecard is still heavily weighted to the Right. Or have we forgotten the terrorizing of abortion clinics as a right wing methodology.
7
"Part of what went wrong in America in the later ’60s was that the liberal establishment carried water for, protected or excused its far-left children’s rage." I am sorry if you need to place the blame for the upheavals of the 60s on permissive parenting. The 60s was black empowerment leading to white rage against their own perceived disenfranchisement, the depredations of a foreign war that seemed unjustified to the men being asked to fight it along with the government's refusal to raise taxes to pay for the war effort or to properly care for the injured. And it was the emergence of democratic and socialist social and political philosophies to counter the anti-communist and fascist philosophies of the 30s and 40s. It had nothing to do with not spanking the kids.
11
Entitled white men are a greater threat to America than any other group on the planet.
28
Hmmm......"...mostly a peaceful one....." The country that is.
Really? In what sense? At the time of the softball shooting, 165 days into this year, the country had already witnessed 154 mass shootings. This country is about as peaceful as an armed camp full of trigger happy crazy's can be, which is not at all. Makes one proud to be an American don't it? Doesn't it make you want to run out and have children immediately in any country expressing such statistics?
Juxtapose this against the reality that in the entirety of our existence as a nation we haven't been able to go more than 20 years without being involved in a war, indeed Afghanistan is our longest running one to date, and explain again to me how we can be viewed as peaceful? Of course it seems peaceful to a certain, mostly white and rich, clique of folks. For them it's damn near paradise. For everyone else, though, it's pretty close to hell on earth.
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
Really? In what sense? At the time of the softball shooting, 165 days into this year, the country had already witnessed 154 mass shootings. This country is about as peaceful as an armed camp full of trigger happy crazy's can be, which is not at all. Makes one proud to be an American don't it? Doesn't it make you want to run out and have children immediately in any country expressing such statistics?
Juxtapose this against the reality that in the entirety of our existence as a nation we haven't been able to go more than 20 years without being involved in a war, indeed Afghanistan is our longest running one to date, and explain again to me how we can be viewed as peaceful? Of course it seems peaceful to a certain, mostly white and rich, clique of folks. For them it's damn near paradise. For everyone else, though, it's pretty close to hell on earth.
So it goes.
John~
American Net'Zen
14
Our president's exhortations for violence during his campaign, unfortunately, have registered on followers of both parties. He should disavow those statements and confess his error. He should emphasize more publicly, that gun possession should be only for self-protection.
6
In the big picture, and that is what we, as a nation should be looking at, there wasn't really too much different, or even "unusual" about this recent attack on a baseball field.
You had a shooter, who had a gripe...and a gun.
That's all that's needed.
There's no way of getting around the fact that America is a violent country. Always has been.
The right to obtain and use firearms is in its life-blood, and only recently, while still on the campaign trail, it had a president who extolled the 2nd Amendment, while implying its use on the opposing candidate -- as the crowd roared its approval.
So this attack should surprise no one.
After all, that is what you voted for.
You had a shooter, who had a gripe...and a gun.
That's all that's needed.
There's no way of getting around the fact that America is a violent country. Always has been.
The right to obtain and use firearms is in its life-blood, and only recently, while still on the campaign trail, it had a president who extolled the 2nd Amendment, while implying its use on the opposing candidate -- as the crowd roared its approval.
So this attack should surprise no one.
After all, that is what you voted for.
117
The left has politicians who said their goal is to make Republican leaders afraid for their safety.
1
When the Elitist left has demonstrated definitely that it will not tolerate a conservative being elected, then America is headed straight for civil war.
4
The guy was a nutcase with easy access to an assault weapon, nothing more, nothing less.
So he shot a shill for the NRA. Lanza shot up a classroom of first graders, what's-his-name shot up a bible class full of black people, and on and on. Was it political, or racist, or just what is it? The one and only common thread is a nutcase with easy access to an assault weapon.
One would hope Scalise and all his pals in congress have an epiphany and do the right thing. Like tornados, flash floods, nut cases with assault weapons is a very dangerous violent indiscriminate force of nature, a fact that knows not or cares not wether you believe them or not.
So he shot a shill for the NRA. Lanza shot up a classroom of first graders, what's-his-name shot up a bible class full of black people, and on and on. Was it political, or racist, or just what is it? The one and only common thread is a nutcase with easy access to an assault weapon.
One would hope Scalise and all his pals in congress have an epiphany and do the right thing. Like tornados, flash floods, nut cases with assault weapons is a very dangerous violent indiscriminate force of nature, a fact that knows not or cares not wether you believe them or not.
17
So, according to Mr. Douthat, James Hodgkinson was a typical Democrat who was sane and differed from other Democrats only by the degree to which he let his hatred of Republicans spin out of control.
If this story line takes root, all we have to do is wait to see what Republicans feel they are justified in doing to suppress Democrats, the Constitution be damned.
If this story line takes root, all we have to do is wait to see what Republicans feel they are justified in doing to suppress Democrats, the Constitution be damned.
8
Yet another "they both do it" article by a right-wing apologist. It doesn't wash, and history proves it. The left is populated by people who are really too laid-back for their own good, while the right is now the home of violent, triumphalist hot-heads, egged on by an insecure, chicken-hawk president.
"John F. Kennedy was hated passionately by many Republicans in Dallas, but Lee Harvey Oswald’s beliefs were Marxist, not right-wing."
Ah yes. The old right-wing Lee Harvey Oswald was a Leftie canard. This is a myth pulled from the same volume of American fairy tales that tells us Admiral Peary went to the Pole alone.
Ah yes. The old right-wing Lee Harvey Oswald was a Leftie canard. This is a myth pulled from the same volume of American fairy tales that tells us Admiral Peary went to the Pole alone.
6
The last conservative Democrat to be President was JFK. He would be appalled by what the Democrat party has become.
2
Mr. Douthat,
Your column was in trouble before your fourth paragraph when you used "normalcy" instead of "normality."
If you write and speak like Warren Harding, you will think like him also.
The Loop Garoo Kid
Your column was in trouble before your fourth paragraph when you used "normalcy" instead of "normality."
If you write and speak like Warren Harding, you will think like him also.
The Loop Garoo Kid
5
If a crazy man is indeed crazy - it matters neither what his political leanings are, nor his choice of weapon when dealing out death.
The problem is that he is, in fact, CRAZY. And the American Mental Health System - whatever that is - is unable, unwilling, under-funded or simply under- manned - to keep hardly anyone safe.
Unless, of course, you are a wealthy thug (insert favorite gangster, who can hire his own posse, or someone protected by the taxpayers, such as our current POTUS).
And I am a thirty-five year veteran (clinical neuropsychologist) of our American Mental Health System.
The problem is that he is, in fact, CRAZY. And the American Mental Health System - whatever that is - is unable, unwilling, under-funded or simply under- manned - to keep hardly anyone safe.
Unless, of course, you are a wealthy thug (insert favorite gangster, who can hire his own posse, or someone protected by the taxpayers, such as our current POTUS).
And I am a thirty-five year veteran (clinical neuropsychologist) of our American Mental Health System.
4
So if Congress sets about killing thousands of anonymous elders by raising the cost of health insurance, that's a "policy change," but if on fool with a gun shoots up a baseball team, that's " violence." Can't we make killing the issue, and quit quibbling about how it's done?
12
Please just stop. The inaptly named Affordable Care Act raised the cost of health insurance- did you accuse Democrats of trying to kill people? Do you realize you are part of the problem?
1
Not one word about sensible gun control?
10
Ted Nugent once said Obama should ‘suck on my machine gun.’
I remember the outrage from the Right about this comment (that's sarcasm).
Ted Nugent recently had dinner with Trump at the White House.
Julius Caesar was portrayed by a black actor when Obama was president. I remember the outrage from the Left and the Right about this (that's sarcasm).
Like many bullies, Republicans are shocked that the left is angry, and fighting back. I do not condone the violence that occurred this week, but seriously, what do people expect when the leader of our country keeps on pouring gasoline on the fire, extolling people to their inner demons, their worst inclinations, their basest emotions?
I remember the outrage from the Right about this comment (that's sarcasm).
Ted Nugent recently had dinner with Trump at the White House.
Julius Caesar was portrayed by a black actor when Obama was president. I remember the outrage from the Left and the Right about this (that's sarcasm).
Like many bullies, Republicans are shocked that the left is angry, and fighting back. I do not condone the violence that occurred this week, but seriously, what do people expect when the leader of our country keeps on pouring gasoline on the fire, extolling people to their inner demons, their worst inclinations, their basest emotions?
9
James Hodgkinson's murderous intent toward Republican lawmakers could be at least partly explained, I hold, through the unconscious self-hating idea that attacking them was required in order to prevent lymphonic cancer -- Hodgkins disease -- from spreading in America's body politic. Hardly an idle group-fantasy word association.
The simple word association of his name and the cancerous condition is stark and unimpunable. An unconscious psychodynamic is written in the mental process of shifting from text ("Hodgkins disease") to token ("Hodgkinson" name), which he surely associated at some level.
The simple word association of his name and the cancerous condition is stark and unimpunable. An unconscious psychodynamic is written in the mental process of shifting from text ("Hodgkins disease") to token ("Hodgkinson" name), which he surely associated at some level.
2
There are millions of right wing nuts with guns. There are thousands of left wing nuts with guns.
1,000 < 1.000,000
Douthat is making a case for FALSE EQUIVALENCE.
1,000 < 1.000,000
Douthat is making a case for FALSE EQUIVALENCE.
Nice try Douthat but I'm not swayed by the feeble attempt at spin.
Hodgkinson is described a "surprisingly normal" democrat, a "liberal" and a "terrorsist". Loughner - the Tea Party terrorist - is defended as being mentally ill. Everyone knows which side of the political spectrum you stand on.
However, I would state that the problem isn't people's political beliefs. The problem is people - radical, insane or otherwise - with easy access to firearms.
Hodgkinson is described a "surprisingly normal" democrat, a "liberal" and a "terrorsist". Loughner - the Tea Party terrorist - is defended as being mentally ill. Everyone knows which side of the political spectrum you stand on.
However, I would state that the problem isn't people's political beliefs. The problem is people - radical, insane or otherwise - with easy access to firearms.
10
This killer is an anomaly in every way. He's the first "liberal" leaning killer I can recall, but RD is playing it like it happens every day.
This is called turning on the right wing propaganda machine.
This is called turning on the right wing propaganda machine.
6
Given the number of mass shootings in America it's not hard to imagine a time when when the "disgruntled employee" is replaced by the "superpatriot" of either the left or right who sees himself as the last protector of the Constitution.
1
We now know that Hodgkinson had a history of violence, towards his foster children, his grandniece, possibly his wife, who confided in others that she wanted a divorce. We now know that neighbors and friends noticed that there was something sinister about his behavior in more recent times.
In short, a rush to explain his behavior (minus his political beliefs) before all of the facts were known.
In short, a rush to explain his behavior (minus his political beliefs) before all of the facts were known.
"Say what you believe"
Well, sure, can't argue with that. Everyone now has his 15 seconds of digital fame, all day, every day. But this has nothing to do with the problem or the solution.
The problem is tribalism combined with a politics of Virtue. For the left, these come together in mindless identity politics. For the America right, these come together in idiot talk radio and a foolish market fundamentalism.
In neither case do the tribalists dare to question basic assumptions, evaluate evidence carefully and objectively, or tell the tribe where and how they differ from them.
Examples: the left knows that unrestrained immigration suffocates the best ally of the working man - labor scarcity - and yet they continue to favor the importation of a massive unskilled, uneducated Mexican underclass.
The right knows that our form of hyperactive, Darwinian capitalism with no safety net is the biggest threat to strong families and family values - and yet they continue to advocate against single payer as well as any kind of restraint on or requirements of employers when it comes to providing a living wage or preserving some degree of continuity and economic security for the communities in which US corporations operate.
Both left and right are aghast at the idea that citizens come first, that countries have the right to secure their borders and enforce their immigration laws.
We have too much belief, too much tribalism and conformity. We have a deficit of clear thinking.
Well, sure, can't argue with that. Everyone now has his 15 seconds of digital fame, all day, every day. But this has nothing to do with the problem or the solution.
The problem is tribalism combined with a politics of Virtue. For the left, these come together in mindless identity politics. For the America right, these come together in idiot talk radio and a foolish market fundamentalism.
In neither case do the tribalists dare to question basic assumptions, evaluate evidence carefully and objectively, or tell the tribe where and how they differ from them.
Examples: the left knows that unrestrained immigration suffocates the best ally of the working man - labor scarcity - and yet they continue to favor the importation of a massive unskilled, uneducated Mexican underclass.
The right knows that our form of hyperactive, Darwinian capitalism with no safety net is the biggest threat to strong families and family values - and yet they continue to advocate against single payer as well as any kind of restraint on or requirements of employers when it comes to providing a living wage or preserving some degree of continuity and economic security for the communities in which US corporations operate.
Both left and right are aghast at the idea that citizens come first, that countries have the right to secure their borders and enforce their immigration laws.
We have too much belief, too much tribalism and conformity. We have a deficit of clear thinking.
2
" ordinary Midwestern Democrat". Sure, with a little problem with domestic abuse. But beating a Woman is like a speeding ticket, soon gone AND forgotten. Rarely even lose your drivers license, unless it occurs TOO often. Nice mansplaining, Ross. Please do better.
Ross,
I was going to thank you you for a very insightful comment but then you started on your centrist elite nonsense. Status quo is not left wing it is the very definition of conservative. Why must you always go from insightful to inciteful.
The DNC is mainstream conservative in our Western Democracies.
You have essentially two neoliberal political parties when your economy is already too large. Like Johnathan Swift's citizen's of Liliput and Blefuscu you are ready to kill each other over which end of the egg to crack open.
I was going to thank you you for a very insightful comment but then you started on your centrist elite nonsense. Status quo is not left wing it is the very definition of conservative. Why must you always go from insightful to inciteful.
The DNC is mainstream conservative in our Western Democracies.
You have essentially two neoliberal political parties when your economy is already too large. Like Johnathan Swift's citizen's of Liliput and Blefuscu you are ready to kill each other over which end of the egg to crack open.
5
Thank you, Mr. Douthat, for this excellent analysis of political assassinations and failed attempts in the 20th and 21st centuries US. The US has lost 4 Presidents or 9% of the total so far to assassinations. If one were to go farther back in US history and also include Europe back to the 1600's, one would find a great variety of psychological profiles of the assassins and attempted assassins of the heads of state, all motivated -- in one word -- by HATE.
Such sentiments have nothing to do with the US tradition of carrying arms, where even the gunslingers in the Wild West abode by their own variety of Code Duello.
Such sentiments have nothing to do with the US tradition of carrying arms, where even the gunslingers in the Wild West abode by their own variety of Code Duello.
As usual, Ross uses his platform to spin an excuse, although the national nightmare that is our Groper, chiefly responsible for the hate that has encompassed our country, is a bridge too far. Interesting that he uses what he see as mostly liberal hate to address the rising divide in our country, not once mentioning the plethora of guns that glut our cities and states. Why not mention Charleston, with a white supremacist normalized by the Groper. Why not use the Groper himself, trying to delegitimize my President and disparage him. Why not use the campaign speech when trump goads the NRA into "taking matters into their own hands" if Hillary wins. No, Ross, you don't get a pass on this. And BTW, I was a 60's kid and your loose talk of how we were "Part of what went wrong...was that the liberal establishment carried water for, protected or excused its far-left children’s rage." Yeah right! I guess Kent State was the kids fault...civil disobedience was unacceptable. And then, "Part of what could go wrong today is evident in the way that violence in the left-wing core, the university campus, gets met with excuse-making... The House whip bleeding on a baseball field is a reminder that brighter lines against lesser acts of violence serve the entire culture well." Really? Talk about pointing the finger at everyone but your side; Right-wingers bussed in to distrust. There will be no calming until there is an acknowledgment on YOUR SIDE that the RW contributes to the hate! RESIST!
2
I din't know why, but almost every time I read a Douthat column, I feel the need to use the equivalent of bug spray on my brain. There is just something about his thought process that seems a bit off. Yeah, we all need to take a step back from the anger and hyperbole edge, but this is not a right and left need to come together issue. This is mostly a slow but steady slide into fascism and intolerance on the right, aided too much by the normal conservative element either being cynical or cowardly in not calling out their nut jobs until we got the big orange nut job. Douthat was one of those cowards. No lecture from him please.
6
What's terrifying about Hodgkinson is that he was self-radicalized and made the jump from being a curmudgeon to killer in a relatively quick time period. He is the first person to have a proven link of a mainstream political ideology leading to an episode of attempted murder in quite some time. It's more than coincidence that his Hodgkinson's actions came right after Sander's ratcheted up the rhetoric, in his speech at the so-called "People's Summit". These dog-whistles need to stop, before some one gets killed.
12
No mention of the fact that everyone would be safer if we didn't allow civilians to purchase assault weapons. There is a fantastic editorial in the NY Times today by an emergency room doctor in Baltimore. Assault weapon bullets are designed to do the utmost damage to the internal organs and bones of a human. If people want to be armed for self-defense, is it really necessary for weapons to do this level of harm? Fortunately for the Republican baseball practice, the security detail were there--the rest of us don't have that kind of protection from a nut with an assault weapon. In a movie theater NO one would know who started the shooting, if everyone pulled out a gun. Result: mass mayhem and carnage. Can there be any good outcome by carrying MORE guns in this country? I think this incident should be a wake-up call that serious gun restricitions need to be instituted. The NRA's approach is completely illogical, and Douthat, you are missing the point about political arguments. Without guns, we would be having civil discourse and, yes, anger--not death.
1
Once again, Douthat's argument rests on selectivity and false equivalence. How remarkable that Douthat treats us to a litany of crazed assassins associated with (but not belonging to) the left, including Squeaky Fromme, Oswald, and Sara Jane Moore. He conveniently fails to mention politically motivated murderers like Dylann Roof, Timothy McVeigh, and the "pizzagate" crazy who was egged on by the rhetoric of hateful, libelous right-wing talk radio. And Hodgkinson was a "mainstream Democrat?" How could you? There is no liberal-left equivalent to Limbaugh, or Ingraham or Levin, or Alex Jones - people whose anger and overt racism know no boundaries. And as for your disingenuous comparison between Sean Hannity and Kathy Griffin, let us remember that the former is a host on Fox News who speaks regularly with the President of the United States. The latter is a comedian. Let's have a little perspective, shall we.
7
I'm not often in agreement with Ross but he makes two very good points, First, the mainstream media is not center, it is center-left, and because of that it continually tinges stories and commentary with an anti-Republican flavor. This was always a bias but has grown more open and raw. A once common-sense democrat friend of my wife now marinates in a soup of CNN, CBS and MSNBC and you can no longer have a decent conversation on anything remotely political.
The second point was that we don't yet have democrat organized political violence, but that the shooting of Scalise was a canary in a coal mine. The violent ANTIFA and anarchist groups and the anit-free speech campus liberals now often mingle with main street democrats at rallies. Calls for impeachment of Trump are tinged with the implication that anything is ok to remove the perceived constitutional threat. I fear we have farther to go down this road of political violence before a true truce is reached.
The second point was that we don't yet have democrat organized political violence, but that the shooting of Scalise was a canary in a coal mine. The violent ANTIFA and anarchist groups and the anit-free speech campus liberals now often mingle with main street democrats at rallies. Calls for impeachment of Trump are tinged with the implication that anything is ok to remove the perceived constitutional threat. I fear we have farther to go down this road of political violence before a true truce is reached.
1
Ross, you go far too easy on your brothers and sisters in the media. The most important thing about the Alexandria shootings is that Mr. Hodgkinson did not survive. That gives the media the tabla rosa the media craves. Reporters and readers alike can speculate endlessly on what drove the Mr. Hodgkinson to violence. Maybe he hated Republicans. Maybe he believed that Democrats were ineffective in dealing with Republicans and he needed to set an example. Maybe he hated Congress. Mr. Hodgkinson will never stand up and tell us why he did the monstrous thing he did. The pundits and the media are making the most of his silence.
Ah Ross, this reads like a gussied up version of what Republicans and the RW have been doing for 40 years - 'Blame Democrats and Liberals for what we (Republicans) do".
And when you talk about the Media being 'center left', just remember the RW has pulled the center so far to the right that Nixon is now 'center left'.
And when you talk about the Media being 'center left', just remember the RW has pulled the center so far to the right that Nixon is now 'center left'.
Maybe the media's assessment of Jared Lee Loughner is similar to your assessment of James Hodgkinson: premature and incorrect. He is a troubled lone wolf who acted no differently than other mentally ill, angry lone wolfs with access to an arsenal.
You deem Trump hapless as he instigates a full on assault against the Truth. Yes, capital T truth. I would upgrade hapless to dangerous.
I appreciate your call to abjure from "lies, slander, stupidity and vilesness." Sadly, this discourse has crept steadily into our culture for decades. Look at how children address each other and their parents on TV and Film. Mocking is the new loving.
Thanks for your thoughtful editorials. I'd be interested in your response to Socrates from Verona, NJ. Thanks. He suggests "second amendment remedies" and that he'd punch opponents "in the nose" and vilifies the "lying media," all of which establish grounds for violence. Isn't that incitement? Follow the leader.
You deem Trump hapless as he instigates a full on assault against the Truth. Yes, capital T truth. I would upgrade hapless to dangerous.
I appreciate your call to abjure from "lies, slander, stupidity and vilesness." Sadly, this discourse has crept steadily into our culture for decades. Look at how children address each other and their parents on TV and Film. Mocking is the new loving.
Thanks for your thoughtful editorials. I'd be interested in your response to Socrates from Verona, NJ. Thanks. He suggests "second amendment remedies" and that he'd punch opponents "in the nose" and vilifies the "lying media," all of which establish grounds for violence. Isn't that incitement? Follow the leader.
I usually appreciate Mr. Douthat and his center right political perspective. I must admit though that this is about as poorly presented and supported potpourri of opinions as I have seen from him in quite some time.
Our elected representatives in America have been pouring gas on the fire for decades and continue to be surprised when the can blows up.
Our elected representatives in America have been pouring gas on the fire for decades and continue to be surprised when the can blows up.
2
Your assessment of Hodgkinson is a might premature. It is coming out that he was a hot head with a history of domestic violence who had easy access to military-syle weapons. His targets were interchangeable with any other domestic terrorist who runs a head of steam of resentment against "the other."
2
Interesting that Douthat fails to mention gun control and minimizes the mental health issues referring to Hodgkinson as "an ordinary Democrat". Typical Republican.
4
If irony was a commodity, we'd be rich. The shooter is a troubled man with a history of domestic abuse and in legal possession of two firearms. He wounds 3, among them, including Congressman Scalise. Witnesses described it as a battle scene, the wounded Congressman crawling to the outfield out of the range of the shooter. Every Republican on that field has played handmaiden to the NRA. The congressman, the sponsor of reversing the assault rifle ban was hit with a bullet intended for war. One capable of pulverizing bone and liquefying organs.
Republicans were saved by 2 black officers, one a married lesbian. The congressman was under fire for attending a white nationalist group and he pushed for an amendment to the constitution to make marriage between a man and a women. While events unfolded, Republican senators in a backroom figuring out how they could strip the rest of the population of the level of healthcare that would save the Congressman's life as well as the mental healthcare the shooter needed.The house Republicans decided to shelve their evening vote which was to make gun silencers easier to buy. Of course without that familiar "pop,pop,pop" of an active shooter more people would have died. The problem with a "good guy with a gun" is that over years, divorces, custody battles, job loss and health issues good guys become bad. And most of the time, nobody ever sees it coming.
Republicans were saved by 2 black officers, one a married lesbian. The congressman was under fire for attending a white nationalist group and he pushed for an amendment to the constitution to make marriage between a man and a women. While events unfolded, Republican senators in a backroom figuring out how they could strip the rest of the population of the level of healthcare that would save the Congressman's life as well as the mental healthcare the shooter needed.The house Republicans decided to shelve their evening vote which was to make gun silencers easier to buy. Of course without that familiar "pop,pop,pop" of an active shooter more people would have died. The problem with a "good guy with a gun" is that over years, divorces, custody battles, job loss and health issues good guys become bad. And most of the time, nobody ever sees it coming.
3
Ross Douthat. You make me laugh.
"...our centrist elites are actually center-left..." You are so funny.
What you identify as standard Democrats are right leaning corporatists. They talk a good game, but don't get between them and their Range Rover.
As for the shooting. Crazy people do crazy 'stuff' for crazy reasons. You seem to acknowledge this. Only ratings-seeking pundits really believe any of this stuff is truly politically motivated. It's crazy people with guns. America is good at this stunt.
"...our centrist elites are actually center-left..." You are so funny.
What you identify as standard Democrats are right leaning corporatists. They talk a good game, but don't get between them and their Range Rover.
As for the shooting. Crazy people do crazy 'stuff' for crazy reasons. You seem to acknowledge this. Only ratings-seeking pundits really believe any of this stuff is truly politically motivated. It's crazy people with guns. America is good at this stunt.
1
I don't like the way conservatives are governing but the left poses a more serious danger to us right now. The so-called Resistance has been out of control for the past eight months...that the result would be a tragic shooting is not surprising. Come on admit it...we have been slowly walking toward this moment...oblivious to the fact that we have been endorsing & encouraging the worst impulses of misguided protesters. The current peaceful protests are not only provoking violence...they are intentionally employing it, the Berkeley riots are a good example. Many pundits are giving intellectual cover to aggressive protesters knowing full well what is going to happen. Publicly they will say,"rage but non-violently of course"...wink ..wink...then it spins out of control & they ignore the aftermath. When cities burn & businesses are looted after these protests how often do Democratic leaders step up to the podium to denounce these actions...never...why? Because condemnation doesn't serve their agenda. Inexcusable. Silence means assent. As noted progressives never miss an opportunity to dehumanize Trump & his family as a human beings. Celebrities fantasizing about “blowing up” the White House...photo shoots featuring Trump's decapitated head. It's gotten way too personal. Stop it! Unstable people are influenced by this. We know this. We are playing a sick & twisted game that has serious consequences. The chickens are coming home to roost. We have to be more civil to each other.
1
It's a real stretch to say James Hodgkinson had "normal" political beliefs. Call him what he was -- a nut with a gun. And nuts who resort to guns are not "normal," no matter where their stated political beliefs fall on the right-left spectrum.
Since American government appears to be unwilling to address the non-partisan and practical concern of how to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people (thanks to the NRA-led gun lobby), nuts with guns will continue to commit acts like this and so many others that they become a tragic blur.
Since American government appears to be unwilling to address the non-partisan and practical concern of how to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people (thanks to the NRA-led gun lobby), nuts with guns will continue to commit acts like this and so many others that they become a tragic blur.
2
It may be just me, but it seems that the republicans were downright quiet on the subject of partisan rhetoric and violence after another member of their congressional family, Gabby Giffords, was shot. A bit of tut tutting and back to normal.
Every example provided, including - especially - Hodgkinson, is a story of a mentally ill man (gender is not irrelevant), steeped in a culture of aggressive masculinity, who has easy availability of lethal weapons and a deep sense of entitlement to use force.
So, instead of arcane analyses like this one, why not have community mental health programs, strict gun control, and a conversation about masculinity that starts with small boys, so they don't grow up like Hodgkinson or the other damaged humans who do these things?
So, instead of arcane analyses like this one, why not have community mental health programs, strict gun control, and a conversation about masculinity that starts with small boys, so they don't grow up like Hodgkinson or the other damaged humans who do these things?
After more than a half century of investigations into the authoritarian mentality, researchers across board have repeatedly concluded: There is simply nothing on the Left that is the equivalent of the extreme authoritarianism on the Right.
nothing.
Corey Robin made an excellent argument that all those - like Brooks, and somewhat less so, Douthat - who try to paper over these authoritarian tendencies - are deluding themselves. The Right has been the same since the terms "Right" and "Left" originated during the French Revolution:
"Right' for those who supported the monarchy (i.e. authoritarians)
"Left" for those who supported freedom for the 99%.
If you apply this carefully through the ensuing centuries, the result is a tremendous clarification. In the late 1800s, the anarchists (those in favor of the greatest freedom for the 99%) were the embodiment of the Left; those (like today's Karl Rove) who supported the robber barons, were the Right.
Looking at it through this lens, it's clear that the USSR was a Right wing phenomenon, as were the Nazis, no matter what Jonah Goldberg might have you believe.
Now, with Trump and his followers - including the alt right and white supremacists - you see the Right in its naked, unvarnished state.
For those (like some NY Times op-ed writers) who conflated Sanders' and Trumps' populism, look at Bernie's mayoral run in Burlington. Always fighting for the 99%, vs Trump, always fighting for, well, himself - the ultimate Rightwinger.
nothing.
Corey Robin made an excellent argument that all those - like Brooks, and somewhat less so, Douthat - who try to paper over these authoritarian tendencies - are deluding themselves. The Right has been the same since the terms "Right" and "Left" originated during the French Revolution:
"Right' for those who supported the monarchy (i.e. authoritarians)
"Left" for those who supported freedom for the 99%.
If you apply this carefully through the ensuing centuries, the result is a tremendous clarification. In the late 1800s, the anarchists (those in favor of the greatest freedom for the 99%) were the embodiment of the Left; those (like today's Karl Rove) who supported the robber barons, were the Right.
Looking at it through this lens, it's clear that the USSR was a Right wing phenomenon, as were the Nazis, no matter what Jonah Goldberg might have you believe.
Now, with Trump and his followers - including the alt right and white supremacists - you see the Right in its naked, unvarnished state.
For those (like some NY Times op-ed writers) who conflated Sanders' and Trumps' populism, look at Bernie's mayoral run in Burlington. Always fighting for the 99%, vs Trump, always fighting for, well, himself - the ultimate Rightwinger.
2
Typical reaction from the right: one person from the "left" does an unspeakable thing and the soul-searching, behavior modification must take place on the left: the Right is once again a victim, total memory loss of the many unspeakable acts carried out by ill people that identify with the right. "Decent liberals" indeed, sir: can you even hear yourself?
When will the American Right ever take responsibility, ever engage in any kind of soul-searching? Trump didn't run as a democrat because even he was smart enough to know that liberals wouldn't fall for his lie-fueled con job.
Trump has thrown gasoline on a fire the Right started and now they not only aid and abet him, they lick his boots. You expect people to just shut up, accept his lies and perversion of reality just to keep things calm?
Potentially there are very dark days ahead for trump's presidency: he and his talking heads are already trying to convince the American public that any conclusion reached that reflects badly on trump will be illegitimate: unless you're a trump sycophant you speak no truth. Trump has no respect for truth or constitutional democratic government, he likely doesn't even know what it means: he will win at all costs, he'll tear the Country to pieces before he backs down....that's what you should fear and start fighting against now. It's long past time for republicans to stop accepting the unacceptable.
When will the American Right ever take responsibility, ever engage in any kind of soul-searching? Trump didn't run as a democrat because even he was smart enough to know that liberals wouldn't fall for his lie-fueled con job.
Trump has thrown gasoline on a fire the Right started and now they not only aid and abet him, they lick his boots. You expect people to just shut up, accept his lies and perversion of reality just to keep things calm?
Potentially there are very dark days ahead for trump's presidency: he and his talking heads are already trying to convince the American public that any conclusion reached that reflects badly on trump will be illegitimate: unless you're a trump sycophant you speak no truth. Trump has no respect for truth or constitutional democratic government, he likely doesn't even know what it means: he will win at all costs, he'll tear the Country to pieces before he backs down....that's what you should fear and start fighting against now. It's long past time for republicans to stop accepting the unacceptable.
1
Our modern-day misguided zealots and lone wolves can sure do a heck of a lot of damage with assault weapons, and without the marksmanship skills of an Oswald.
I pray that Congressman Scalise recovers, and I pray that this experience will persuade many on the right to rethink the need to permit the sale of assault weapons, armor-piercing bullets, high capacity ammunition clips - and for God's sake, who in the world besides Tony Soprano needs a silencer.
I pray that Congressman Scalise recovers, and I pray that this experience will persuade many on the right to rethink the need to permit the sale of assault weapons, armor-piercing bullets, high capacity ammunition clips - and for God's sake, who in the world besides Tony Soprano needs a silencer.
I commented in Mr. Bruni's Column that while a candidate, Mr. Trump called for "Second Amendment Solutions", and for his followers to beat up protesters at his appearances.
I asked if he could name one Democratic candidate or member of Congress who called for similar "remedies". Can you?
I asked if he could name one Democratic candidate or member of Congress who called for similar "remedies". Can you?
2
Ross Douthat would make a more compelling advocate for policing our words had he not so blithely dubbed Jeremy Corbyn, a traditional social democrats long out of step with the late 1970s ne0iliberal turn Right, "dotty."
1
"Police what you say for lies, for slander, for stupidity, for simple vileness"
Well, how about this. you equate Corbyn with Le Pen, when there is very little in common between them when it comes to the really nasty stuff. Then you equate the leftie violence on campuses with the right wing's actions. Tell me again, how many lefties have killed 168 people - including children - in bombings like McVeigh did?
If we are to police what we say you might want to start with yourself, Mr Douthat.
Well, how about this. you equate Corbyn with Le Pen, when there is very little in common between them when it comes to the really nasty stuff. Then you equate the leftie violence on campuses with the right wing's actions. Tell me again, how many lefties have killed 168 people - including children - in bombings like McVeigh did?
If we are to police what we say you might want to start with yourself, Mr Douthat.
Ross, I'm searching the archives for any pieces you've written on American White Power groups such as Aryan Nation and Hammerskin Nation. I imagine that if you're looking for collusive violence in American society you might have started with those whose stated aim is to re-establish the hegemony of white people over those of other hues.
Haven't found anything yet. Can you give me a hint? A year?
Haven't found anything yet. Can you give me a hint? A year?
2
"Don't be Sean Hannity; don't be Kathy Griffin".
But, by god, grab your tri-corn hats, wave your "Don't Tread on Me" flags and scream "Jail Her' at Trump rallies; perfectly acceptable GOP behavior.
I'll say what I believe for sure, as you suggest; "YOU'RE STILL PART OF THE PROBLEM"!
Perhaps you could explain to the readers the meaning of "Antifa"?
I noticed this word in Alex Jone's website as a sort of "condemnation" of people who are "Antifa" implying it had something to do with "Intifada" and, hence is awful.
I looked up "Antifa" and its a right wing shortening of "Antifascist" which implies;
a. Anybody against fascism is wrong (It's such a WONDERFUL form of government)
b. Using the shortened word is tacit support of "Profa", ie, encouraging fascist behavior.
Welcome to the "Alex Jones Fan Club" Mr. Douthat; you're dunce cap is over in THAT corner, to the right, no, further right, over there!
But, by god, grab your tri-corn hats, wave your "Don't Tread on Me" flags and scream "Jail Her' at Trump rallies; perfectly acceptable GOP behavior.
I'll say what I believe for sure, as you suggest; "YOU'RE STILL PART OF THE PROBLEM"!
Perhaps you could explain to the readers the meaning of "Antifa"?
I noticed this word in Alex Jone's website as a sort of "condemnation" of people who are "Antifa" implying it had something to do with "Intifada" and, hence is awful.
I looked up "Antifa" and its a right wing shortening of "Antifascist" which implies;
a. Anybody against fascism is wrong (It's such a WONDERFUL form of government)
b. Using the shortened word is tacit support of "Profa", ie, encouraging fascist behavior.
Welcome to the "Alex Jones Fan Club" Mr. Douthat; you're dunce cap is over in THAT corner, to the right, no, further right, over there!
1
Do you really think that Hodgkinson was some sort of "normal" Democrat? Do you really think that Trumpian and Republican rhetoric have not inflamed their followers to evil acts? Do you think that there is any possible détente between left and right these days? There is a rumored uptick in gun sales after the last election: do you think it may be Democrats rushing out to buy guns? Do you think that just possibly Democrats, blacks, gays, immigrants, and Muslims ought to rush out and stock up on guns to protect themselves? And do you think that just maybe somebody might start thinking that the best defense is a good offense? Do you think there is any decent way out of all this?
Can we start talking about guns again, please? It is far too easy for violent, unbalanced people to get guns.
At the very least we must prohibit the bullets used on this occasion. If Hodgkinson had only used a normal hand gun and regular bullets the harm would have been far less. There is no reason for people to have assault weapons at home and flesh shredding bullets.
At the very least we must prohibit the bullets used on this occasion. If Hodgkinson had only used a normal hand gun and regular bullets the harm would have been far less. There is no reason for people to have assault weapons at home and flesh shredding bullets.
Any individual nutso with a gun can wreck havoc. Among many other celebrated such people not mentioned by Douthat were the assassins of Presidents Garfield and McKinley, and Timothy McVeigh. These individuals are always among us, always have been. I worry more about organized "militias" (or whatever ideological stripe), and how to monitor and control them.
"By which I mean that, based on what we know, James Hodgkinson had surprisingly normal political beliefs. He hated Donald Trump, "
That, right there, is the fundamental problem .... we have normalized "HATE".
It SHOULDN'T be "normal" or "ordinary" to HATE the President... BUT the Left hated Bush and really really really HATES Trump. WHY? Can't we just "disagree with" Trump? Certainly the Right "hated" Obama as well.
The problem I think stems from the fact that extremism pays and is rewarded. A politician who gives a speech saying "All Republicans are EVIL and I HATE them because they want to throw Granny in wheelchair off a cliff" gets headlines on MSNBC and CNN and NYT and get loads of money from Soros and other Left wing PACs. However, the politician who gives a speech saying "Most Republicans are generally good people and I like them even though a disagree with policies that I think are metaphorically, but obviously no where near as dramatic, similar to but not really at all the same as, throwing Granny in a wheelchair off a cliff" gets NOTHING ... no air time on MSNBC, no money from PACs, nothing.
SO, we get what we ask for ... Since we HATE each other, (or at least so our TV pundits tell us and our Politicians tell us and our honored and defended groups rioting in the streets tell us) then we have to do what Hodgkinson did.
That, right there, is the fundamental problem .... we have normalized "HATE".
It SHOULDN'T be "normal" or "ordinary" to HATE the President... BUT the Left hated Bush and really really really HATES Trump. WHY? Can't we just "disagree with" Trump? Certainly the Right "hated" Obama as well.
The problem I think stems from the fact that extremism pays and is rewarded. A politician who gives a speech saying "All Republicans are EVIL and I HATE them because they want to throw Granny in wheelchair off a cliff" gets headlines on MSNBC and CNN and NYT and get loads of money from Soros and other Left wing PACs. However, the politician who gives a speech saying "Most Republicans are generally good people and I like them even though a disagree with policies that I think are metaphorically, but obviously no where near as dramatic, similar to but not really at all the same as, throwing Granny in a wheelchair off a cliff" gets NOTHING ... no air time on MSNBC, no money from PACs, nothing.
SO, we get what we ask for ... Since we HATE each other, (or at least so our TV pundits tell us and our Politicians tell us and our honored and defended groups rioting in the streets tell us) then we have to do what Hodgkinson did.
1
Although there has been and will be much written about the political beliefs of mass shooters, the one thing I read that connects them all is that they are involved in abusive relationships. The politics is where they drift, it is the life of abuse (given or absorbed) that is at the bottom of the cauldron of hate.
Hodgkinson's first friend interviewed gave the same shocked comments as always but did say, well he was involved in fights, like in bars, he would not back down from a confrontation. Just normal guy stuff. As I am a bit older than Hodgkinson, I grew up in the same time frame, normal guy stuff for me is not getting into a physical altercation nor has it been.
Maybe part of the problem is this behavior is accepted as normal guy stuff
Hodgkinson's first friend interviewed gave the same shocked comments as always but did say, well he was involved in fights, like in bars, he would not back down from a confrontation. Just normal guy stuff. As I am a bit older than Hodgkinson, I grew up in the same time frame, normal guy stuff for me is not getting into a physical altercation nor has it been.
Maybe part of the problem is this behavior is accepted as normal guy stuff
Typical of rightest apologists, Mr. Douthat is taking a turn at the wheel of the false equivalency express. Regardless of his muddled rationale, Jared Loughner's vicious actions toward his elected representative came in the wake of two seasons of obstreperous formal town hall meetings during which the emergent Tea Party (types) set the tone of public discourse by engaging in all manner of near violent antics aimed at overwhelm,ing the free exchange of policy concepts which Douthat extols. Following that tragedy we did not - as we do currently - see Democratic representatives using the tragedy as an excuse to avoid participating in constituent forums. My representative here in NY's 22nd district, Caludia Tenney, has for months been all too quick to dramatically play up (even on Fox News) vague e-threats and, now, the Virginia shooting as reason she "must" refrain from her obligation to conduct town halls and listen to citizens she inaccurately slurs as "paid protestors." And Douthat tut-tuts me with his call for equitable, reasoned policy discussion.
1
One point about Hodgkison that I'm confused about - how the heck did he get a concealed carry permit?
This is new to Illinois - not sure how these prior events didn't prevent him from obtaining one.
This is new to Illinois - not sure how these prior events didn't prevent him from obtaining one.
It befits a country as stupid as ours has become that if it does explode into political violence - and in my view, we're headed in that direction - it will be toward no tangible goal whatsoever. The riots of the 60's ultimately were about people demanding civil rights. The civil war was about slavery and secession. There have been popular uprisings and civil wars elsewhere about civil rights, economic justice, etc.
What we're heading toward is simply conflict between people that hate each other. There is no discernible outcome other than crushing the other side.
An effort at a national divorce would be wise. Otherwise, I fear things are really going to get ugly.
What we're heading toward is simply conflict between people that hate each other. There is no discernible outcome other than crushing the other side.
An effort at a national divorce would be wise. Otherwise, I fear things are really going to get ugly.
Dear Mr Douthat,
While this is truly a "deplorable" event, I just can't square your circle -- There is not an equivalent of the violent rhetoric of the right on the left. During the campaign, the now-president openly invited "second amendment people" toward violence and invited Russian hackers too. That is without mentioning the violent images against Obama including nooses, effigies, etc. Fortunately, we haven't reached an Yitzhak Rabin situation yet. But if we do, I think we both know where it will come from.
While this is truly a "deplorable" event, I just can't square your circle -- There is not an equivalent of the violent rhetoric of the right on the left. During the campaign, the now-president openly invited "second amendment people" toward violence and invited Russian hackers too. That is without mentioning the violent images against Obama including nooses, effigies, etc. Fortunately, we haven't reached an Yitzhak Rabin situation yet. But if we do, I think we both know where it will come from.
The prism of the internet breaks up reality into separate mono-colored streams that get seen by people with highly polarized glasses. Mr. Douthat sees his particular shade of reality and riffs on that for several highly imaginative paragraphs. There is the criminal madness of the assassins, the school and workplace shooters, the terrorists and the spree killers, and then there is the targeted, cynical corruption of democracy practiced by politicians across the political spectrum. Aided and abetted by a Manichean news media that abjures shades of gray, and a social media universe that gives equal weight to pictures of yesterday's "super-food quinoa breakfast" and crackpot millenarian prophecies, the "hidden persuaders" (as called out by Vance Packard 60 years ago, and not so hidden anymore) and their employers have had too much success trying to turn us into apathetic depressives, self-absorbed hedonists, or members of a snarling lynch mob. The way out seems to depend on finding a type of leadership that acknowledges complexity, embraces compromise, and rejects hyperbolic rhetoric. Attempts at such cooperative solutions have been increasingly undermined by the commodification of hyper-partisanship. It turns out that stoking and promoting rage both makes money and gets votes (at least from the enraged while the depressives and hedonists stay home). We're sorely in need of one more chapter in "Profiles in Courage". Perhaps in this case, hoping can be a directive.
1
Every time you break up a kid's fight they both say. "He started it." One of them is telling the truth. We know, and Ross knows, who started this one. The right of center has always depended on their far right, that ugly part of America that harbors the bigots and haters. Their current President encourages their vilest actions.
James Hodgkinson heard no such urging from anyone on the left. His own sick mind did it all on its own. He's no one's hero, no one on the left will mourn him or offer to pay his legal expenses.
James Hodgkinson heard no such urging from anyone on the left. His own sick mind did it all on its own. He's no one's hero, no one on the left will mourn him or offer to pay his legal expenses.
1
In response to the recent shooting, the incongruent spectacle of trump calling for empathy and unity was appalling in its blatant hypocrisy on full disply. This guy spent his whole campaign deliberately stoking prejudicial sentiments even to the point of encouraging violence at rallies amongst supporters and detractors alike. His henchmen keep trying to normalize the abnormality of his behavior. Nothing about his time in office has been normal and nothing about him has changed. He is grossly incompetent and proves it daily. He is using the office to enrich himself and his spawn, and proves it daily.
2
The shock and horror of this event arises from the fact that Right-Wing violence has been normalized by the MSM. There was open discussion on the prospect of armed resistance in the event of Hillary Clinton's election. Failed pathetic hack politicians (Joe Walsh)openly called for people to grab their muskets and resist. We are told that the Second Amendment was the public's final "check" on a tyrannical government (Rand Paul). Our President openly wonders what, "the Second Amendment people" might do under President Clinton. And, of course, Sarah Palin had "Second Amendment solutions" for the Obama administration. Yet, for Mr. Douthat, that it is THIS event that underscores the true pathology of American politics. Liberals and a Leftist elite driven MSM. How about a GOP bought and paid for by the NRA that believes gun ownership is a God given right, even for the mentally ill?
1
People just have to learn to know the middle way. Too much of anything is bad. To much politics, too much internet, too much radical thinking, too much listening to political pundits, too much watching TV news 24/7...all this is too much. If we don't distance ourselves, give ourselves some space, we will get consumed. Then we won't have power to think for ourselves, we will outsource it to whoever puts thoughts into our minds.
1
"Now, though, we hate each other simply for being Democrats and Republicans more than ever..."
Perhaps that is true, but I don't think "we" hate each other as much as the polticial media and the political class are having lots of fun hating each other. Sure, there are a few social media trolls out their clambering for attention, but this rarely occurrs in personal conversations. To the extent these conversations do occur, they are in response to some media provocation (like the Kathy Griffin pic with trumps head).
The media or some politician does something foolish and then a few rabid partisans demand satisfaction. I've about had it with politics and the political media. Maybe Mr. Douthat and all the rest of the pundits should get a different job. By now this media business has become inhabited by the most contemptible people acting in the most appalling way sowing conflict and discord for profit. Now there is actual violence from crazy people directed at the political class. Go figure.
Perhaps that is true, but I don't think "we" hate each other as much as the polticial media and the political class are having lots of fun hating each other. Sure, there are a few social media trolls out their clambering for attention, but this rarely occurrs in personal conversations. To the extent these conversations do occur, they are in response to some media provocation (like the Kathy Griffin pic with trumps head).
The media or some politician does something foolish and then a few rabid partisans demand satisfaction. I've about had it with politics and the political media. Maybe Mr. Douthat and all the rest of the pundits should get a different job. By now this media business has become inhabited by the most contemptible people acting in the most appalling way sowing conflict and discord for profit. Now there is actual violence from crazy people directed at the political class. Go figure.
1
Douthat has selective memory and revisionist history.
" But because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other."
That is the biggest lie that has been told for 40 years and continues from the racketing up of the right.
" But because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other."
That is the biggest lie that has been told for 40 years and continues from the racketing up of the right.
This even-handed treatment of the violence from the right and left in the column is disingenuous at best, deliberately skewing at worst.
I saw and heard what trump instigated at his rallies. So did everyone else, including this columnist. This is how think-right is creeping into this country ala "1984'.
Douthat's opinion is not honest. He's playing fair-handed cards for applause.
I saw and heard what trump instigated at his rallies. So did everyone else, including this columnist. This is how think-right is creeping into this country ala "1984'.
Douthat's opinion is not honest. He's playing fair-handed cards for applause.
2
"Police what you say..." and "Say what you believe". Wise counsel and a koan for a time of derangement.
Yet Ross is unconcerned about the thousands of women who are killed each year by their partners. Where was his concern when little kids die or when women are gunned down going to the dr? A 12 year old in the park or a man, his gf, and their child driving down the road? But *THIS* is his tipping point? I'll believe these guys care about people when the people of Flint get clean water to drink! Area man now upset when rhetoric "goes too far".
I won't shed a tear for Scalise. The man is a bigoted racist. He said and I quote, "I am like David Duke without the baggage."
In March on Rachel Maddow show Bernie Sanders spoke proudly about how HIS goal and his followers goal was to make Republican leaders feel scared for their safety and to have to leave town hall meetings by the back door. You can watch the clip on you tube. Is it any wonder that a deranged follower would view words like this as the go ahead to escalate? Words matter on both sides of the aisle...
The motivations of the shooter in Alexandria were "unusual", you say.
But ... the motivations of the shooter at Sandy Hook were not unusual?
The Aurora killings? Of Orlando, Roseburg, San Bernardino and on ad nausem?
Hodgkinson was not a "surprisingly normal" person with a political beef, whose politics happened to be ususually left rather than right. He was obviously a mentally disturbed man with access to killing machines, weapons designed for maximum mass destruction. He was only one of many such angry, deranged men who carry out these 'tragedies'.
That's the new norm. So, on the news we see people hugging, weeping, lighting candles, holding prayer vigils every other day. As if the insanity of providing insane people with weapons that were meant for battlefields is sane. As if mass shootings were as normal and unfortunate as cancer or car accidents. And just as forgettable.
So we all must wait in our captivity by the NRA and the largely GOP congress who supports it. We wait for it to happen to us when we go to the movies or to Home Depot, a mall, or pump gas, or sit in our own houses.
Or maybe our shooter will find a new, unique situation to turn into ground zero for us, something "unusual".
But ... the motivations of the shooter at Sandy Hook were not unusual?
The Aurora killings? Of Orlando, Roseburg, San Bernardino and on ad nausem?
Hodgkinson was not a "surprisingly normal" person with a political beef, whose politics happened to be ususually left rather than right. He was obviously a mentally disturbed man with access to killing machines, weapons designed for maximum mass destruction. He was only one of many such angry, deranged men who carry out these 'tragedies'.
That's the new norm. So, on the news we see people hugging, weeping, lighting candles, holding prayer vigils every other day. As if the insanity of providing insane people with weapons that were meant for battlefields is sane. As if mass shootings were as normal and unfortunate as cancer or car accidents. And just as forgettable.
So we all must wait in our captivity by the NRA and the largely GOP congress who supports it. We wait for it to happen to us when we go to the movies or to Home Depot, a mall, or pump gas, or sit in our own houses.
Or maybe our shooter will find a new, unique situation to turn into ground zero for us, something "unusual".
2
The Republicans have PhD's in "simple vileness." Standing by, keeping mum, about the birther movement year after year because having as many folks out there believe Barack Obama is a Muslim terrorist suited your purposes. You whipped up your base into a frenzy, you got your votes, you got your vile president, good for you. Excellent work.
Now you're running back to history to dig up past examples of when the left was violent and saying, see! you're vile just like us! But I disagree. Yes, we liberals can be equally angry and violent, make no mistake, but right-wing Republicans have a lock on vile. People point to Kathy Griffin's severed head, I point to Barack Obama's head with a turban and beard and "Obama bin Laden" written underneath. Then of course, there's Ted Nugent, but I won't even go there.
Liberals are barely making a dent in vileness. And notice: Kathy Griffin apologized. I haven't heard an apology from the right wing yet about anything, ever. They just keep on doing what they've been doing for decades: denigrating liberals.
Now all the conservative pundits are trying to tell liberals they're no better because one unstable guy who liked Bernie Sanders and hated Donald Trump went berserk. What a joke. I want to start hearing some apologies from the right about the hate messaging that's gone on for decades. Right wing vileness is what led to this. Admit that, then we'll talk.
Now you're running back to history to dig up past examples of when the left was violent and saying, see! you're vile just like us! But I disagree. Yes, we liberals can be equally angry and violent, make no mistake, but right-wing Republicans have a lock on vile. People point to Kathy Griffin's severed head, I point to Barack Obama's head with a turban and beard and "Obama bin Laden" written underneath. Then of course, there's Ted Nugent, but I won't even go there.
Liberals are barely making a dent in vileness. And notice: Kathy Griffin apologized. I haven't heard an apology from the right wing yet about anything, ever. They just keep on doing what they've been doing for decades: denigrating liberals.
Now all the conservative pundits are trying to tell liberals they're no better because one unstable guy who liked Bernie Sanders and hated Donald Trump went berserk. What a joke. I want to start hearing some apologies from the right about the hate messaging that's gone on for decades. Right wing vileness is what led to this. Admit that, then we'll talk.
". . . [Trump] more hapless than dangerous. . ." Really? Isn't he the man with his finger on the button that could ignite a nuclear war? Isn't he the man who has stirred the Qutar, Saudi pot? Need I go on. Trump and those around him are "hapless" like the fox who blunders into a hen house. Underestimating the damage he can do (has done!) places our country in perilous jeopardy!
What I hate is that there is a huge difference between saying, "I hate Trump" and saying, "I hate the fact that Trump is president" or "I hate what Trump stands for. What I hate worse is that none of the many people writing and commenting on politics makes that distinction.
There is so much false equivalency here that I don't know where to begin, but let me just highlight one instance. Jeremy Corbyn certainly has his problems, but he is no Marine Le Pen. It's not even close.
One thing all the shooters mentioned by Mr. Douthat had in common is that they are all a little or a lot mentally ill. Stable individuals do not try to kill people. We need to understand this fundamental thing before we can figure out how to prevent it. Talking about the shooters' political leanings is not helpful.
1
Having entertained or accommodated Republicans in my household, I find that many I've met are inclined to be self-aggrandizing types, displaying continual braggadocio, bravado & trumpeting their monetary successes. And while this may be behavior reserved for contact with liberals & occurring within this rural setting from many people who spent most of their lives in metropolitan areas, it's not really very pleasing.
Liberals are few & far between in my area. I live here for the beauty & serenity. It's also affordable for a retired guy of moderate means.
The internet is a way for me to hear & commune with like minded liberals, who abhor violence & seek to further the common good. Of course, to the lunatic right wingers, that in itself is a conspiracy.
Liberals are few & far between in my area. I live here for the beauty & serenity. It's also affordable for a retired guy of moderate means.
The internet is a way for me to hear & commune with like minded liberals, who abhor violence & seek to further the common good. Of course, to the lunatic right wingers, that in itself is a conspiracy.
"Part of what went wrong in America in the later ’60s was that the liberal establishment carried water for, protected or excused its far-left children’s rage."
Yeah, Ross, those crazy hippies just went off into the ozone for no reason. Let's not mention that in order to assuage Republican anti-communism we were drafting our youth to kill and be killed in a pointless war. A war we lost at great cost to ourselves and immense cost to the Vietnamese. And the consequence of our losing? We acquired another friendly trading partner from whom we get low cost blue jeans.
Maybe a little "rage" was appropriate to the situation. The Dirty F Hippies were right about Vietnam, the DFHs who protested W's invasion of Iraq were right, the DFHs in Occupy are right about the economy, and the DFHs are right about Trump.
Yeah, Ross, those crazy hippies just went off into the ozone for no reason. Let's not mention that in order to assuage Republican anti-communism we were drafting our youth to kill and be killed in a pointless war. A war we lost at great cost to ourselves and immense cost to the Vietnamese. And the consequence of our losing? We acquired another friendly trading partner from whom we get low cost blue jeans.
Maybe a little "rage" was appropriate to the situation. The Dirty F Hippies were right about Vietnam, the DFHs who protested W's invasion of Iraq were right, the DFHs in Occupy are right about the economy, and the DFHs are right about Trump.
1
You are dead wrong: "because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other." Apparently you missed the 8 years of the Obama presidency when the vitriol from the right was non-stop and in the quest for "fairness" completely stupid ideas were presented as alternatives to science fact-based positions. The fact that we even still talk about "trickle down" shows that this policy, which has never worked, is still pushed by elites who are most definitely not left-wing.
1
The Left Wing radicalism of the 60's wasn't as deep as you think, except for some fringe splinter groups, such as the Black Liberation Army (BLA) who emerged from growing ideological differences festering in the Black Panthers. Whereas, the original purpose for the existence of the Black Panthers, was instilling Black Pride, self-defense against what they justifiably perceived as State sanctioned violence against the Black community, and more altruistic goals to feed the hungry. On the other hand, the BLA believed Blacks would never be fully incorporated into mainstream "White America," and took up arms against the nation's police with killing police officers as their primary mission; unfortunately, Gregory Foster, one of my childhood friends was a victim of their perverse mission.
The other fringe group that emerged from a 60's leftist organization was "The Weather Underground," a byproduct of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), whose primary objective was opposition to the Vietnam war. The Weather Underground became disenfranchised with the SDS, and embarked on bombing campaigns against national institutions such as college ROTC offices and unfortunately for them their own bomb making factory.
Membership in the aforementioned splinter groups was insignificant, and looking in the Rear View mirror it appears the SDS opposition to the war was based more on a self serving argument keeping them out of Vietnam, as opposed to a true conviction against the war.
The other fringe group that emerged from a 60's leftist organization was "The Weather Underground," a byproduct of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), whose primary objective was opposition to the Vietnam war. The Weather Underground became disenfranchised with the SDS, and embarked on bombing campaigns against national institutions such as college ROTC offices and unfortunately for them their own bomb making factory.
Membership in the aforementioned splinter groups was insignificant, and looking in the Rear View mirror it appears the SDS opposition to the war was based more on a self serving argument keeping them out of Vietnam, as opposed to a true conviction against the war.
1
This is the first high profile example of "left on right" violence; and, though I condemn violence of all sorts, this reaction to a stone-deaf Republican Party is likely become more frequent, much as happened during the French Revolution against a tone deaf monarchy. The American right wing has been the source of all of the domestic terrorists in the past two decades since Gingrich's "Contract On America" opened the doors to hatred in the political arena. To equate the level of extremist rhetoric on the left to that of the right is disingenuous. For every lunatic utterance on the left, there are a hundred on the right; and they're being egged on by the cancer in the Oval Office.
1
Mr. Douthat,
How dare you put Sean Hannity in the same sentence as Kathy Griffin? Mr. Hannity did not hold up anyone's head and call it funny.
The vast majority of hate and violence comes from the left. Keep it up and it will - no doubt I fear - be returned with interest.
If you want to tone things down you can begin by having a heart to heart talk with Paul Krugman who spews out venom continuously.
How dare you put Sean Hannity in the same sentence as Kathy Griffin? Mr. Hannity did not hold up anyone's head and call it funny.
The vast majority of hate and violence comes from the left. Keep it up and it will - no doubt I fear - be returned with interest.
If you want to tone things down you can begin by having a heart to heart talk with Paul Krugman who spews out venom continuously.
1
Analogies across time don't hold in a wired world. In particular, what constitutes incitement today differs in both kind and degree. This, in turn, alters the threshold for unprotected speech.
There is a lot of talk coming from the Left today that we must be fair when discussing this incident of political terror, but being factually correct is what reportage and commentary must first of all be. And "fair" doesn't mean "equivalent." And being "factual" rarely sounds "fair."
The truth of the matter is that the academy and the left-wing media, not to mention the community-organizer-fomenter-in-chief, shut down debate and brain-washed, desensitized and incited a generation, an army of useful idiots, failing to realize that the victims of the often amorphous violence and rage will ultimately be…themselves.
There is a lot of talk coming from the Left today that we must be fair when discussing this incident of political terror, but being factually correct is what reportage and commentary must first of all be. And "fair" doesn't mean "equivalent." And being "factual" rarely sounds "fair."
The truth of the matter is that the academy and the left-wing media, not to mention the community-organizer-fomenter-in-chief, shut down debate and brain-washed, desensitized and incited a generation, an army of useful idiots, failing to realize that the victims of the often amorphous violence and rage will ultimately be…themselves.
1
Mr. Douthat seems to forget backdrop of the 1960s and what led to those protests.
There was a war that the student body did not want to die in. A fight for equal rights for African Americans and women. An economy and way of life that did not provide equal opportunity.
Maybe we should turn your points inside out.
Why did we tolerate a government that sent our children to die in a pointless war? Why did we have a government that tolerated different rights for different groups? Are you saying that the attempt at eliminating poverty is not a noble cause?
It took nearly 350 years to get us to that point. Do we wait another 350 years to get to another or do we really have that kind of time in light of our problems?
Taking over a college campus is mostly symbolic and yes, intolerance for conservative points of view is a concern, but you cannot compare it to an armed takeover of a bird sanctuary, in which the protesters are morphed into patriots. Unarmed kids occupying an administration building is not the same as an armed takeover.
Now we are being told lower the level of our discourse.
What will this solve?
Some of the issues of the 1960s are still with us. Climate change is already effecting the planet. Do we even discuss the impact of technology, automation and obsolescence. Poverty seems poised to grow, while we still argue about supply side economics.
You tell me where there is a silver lining?
There was a war that the student body did not want to die in. A fight for equal rights for African Americans and women. An economy and way of life that did not provide equal opportunity.
Maybe we should turn your points inside out.
Why did we tolerate a government that sent our children to die in a pointless war? Why did we have a government that tolerated different rights for different groups? Are you saying that the attempt at eliminating poverty is not a noble cause?
It took nearly 350 years to get us to that point. Do we wait another 350 years to get to another or do we really have that kind of time in light of our problems?
Taking over a college campus is mostly symbolic and yes, intolerance for conservative points of view is a concern, but you cannot compare it to an armed takeover of a bird sanctuary, in which the protesters are morphed into patriots. Unarmed kids occupying an administration building is not the same as an armed takeover.
Now we are being told lower the level of our discourse.
What will this solve?
Some of the issues of the 1960s are still with us. Climate change is already effecting the planet. Do we even discuss the impact of technology, automation and obsolescence. Poverty seems poised to grow, while we still argue about supply side economics.
You tell me where there is a silver lining?
2
This insight is sort of interesting but here's the problem. There is no equivalence. Example: in 2009, the Department of Homeland Security dismantled the in house research team that studied domestic extremism. The catalyst for its dismissal was a report: "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment." It is unclassified and you can find it at www.fas.org I was working up to my eyeballs in politics at that time and it was widely assumed that the GOP Congress dismantled this vital research team because much of the report delved into right wing domestic terrorism and hence offended GOP primary voters.
9
As DS pointed out, Ross Douthat left out the the most political oriented attempt at political murder. The attack by Timothy McVeigh of the Murrah Federal Building was not mentioned by Mr Douthat. Yet, he cited two attempts on the life of President Ford, neither of them were deemed to be political. This attempt by Mr Douthat to even up the score is nothing more than an attempt by elites on the right to engage in moral equivalency.
10
McVeigh was angry with the ATF and the Attorney General Reno over the Waco, Texas disaster. His position seemed more anti government than anti party. The most politically oriented attempt at murder was likely the Civil War, the assassination of Kennedy or the assassination of Lincoln. I miss your point on moral equivalency but it feels like you're defending the left by mentioning some crime from what you think was someone on the right. Is that moral unequivalency?
1
The worse income inequality gets, the more of this we'll see. Inequality is the fire raising the temperature in the country. And yes, inequality is mainly a conservative construct. It is the outcome conservative policy is designed to achieve, from tax cuts for the rich, to deregulation to allow oligopoly and monopoly to shift ever-more to the rich via stock buybacks, to union-busting and offshoring to weaken labor relative to capital.
If it were up to Liberals, much higher taxes on the rich and expanded programs for the poor would be taking that temperature down. That is exactly what Obama started, which is why Republicans obstructed everything they could, even their own policies (Obamacare bears many similarities to Heritage Foundation proposals, which included mandates, subsidies, and tax hikes).
There is an old saying that: "The Sword comes into the world because of Justice delayed and Justice denied." Conservatives keep denying that economic justice and take pride in making it worse, as the AHCA bill indicates, with its trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for 23 million poor, as the CBO explained. So they are reaping what they've sown.
Hopefully, the Republicans will start returning to the center soon, before things get worse. They should start by tearing up their pledge to Grover Norquist never to raise taxes. Nobody should vote for them until they do.
If it were up to Liberals, much higher taxes on the rich and expanded programs for the poor would be taking that temperature down. That is exactly what Obama started, which is why Republicans obstructed everything they could, even their own policies (Obamacare bears many similarities to Heritage Foundation proposals, which included mandates, subsidies, and tax hikes).
There is an old saying that: "The Sword comes into the world because of Justice delayed and Justice denied." Conservatives keep denying that economic justice and take pride in making it worse, as the AHCA bill indicates, with its trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for 23 million poor, as the CBO explained. So they are reaping what they've sown.
Hopefully, the Republicans will start returning to the center soon, before things get worse. They should start by tearing up their pledge to Grover Norquist never to raise taxes. Nobody should vote for them until they do.
7
The more money spent on keeping the poor on welfare and not showing them how to work will keep them poor. If you are on welfare like in Georgia you have to work. Guess what their welfare dropped 80%. If you are looking for an excuse to be violent you will find one and still be part of the problem.
Inequality has continued unabated since the 1970s regardless of who has been in office, and who has controlled Congress, making it obvious that policies of both parties have contributed to the problem.
"We should throw the bums out". The problem is that with the gerrymandering of the Republicans we can't just throw the bums out. People feel powerless. Look at the process for the supreme court appointment.There was an opportunity to add balance to the Supreme court but the power play of the Republicans scotched that.
Think of all the places where an individual's vote doesn't count because of gerrymandering, of the Republican state governments, and the electoral college system. Why should a republican in California, or a democrat in Wyoming bother to vote in the presidential election?
Look at the health care efforts by the Republicans. Can they be stopped by the 60-70% of the public opposed to the law?
Hodgkinson was deranged, but the political facts fed his derangement, just like they fed McVey's derangement.
Think of all the places where an individual's vote doesn't count because of gerrymandering, of the Republican state governments, and the electoral college system. Why should a republican in California, or a democrat in Wyoming bother to vote in the presidential election?
Look at the health care efforts by the Republicans. Can they be stopped by the 60-70% of the public opposed to the law?
Hodgkinson was deranged, but the political facts fed his derangement, just like they fed McVey's derangement.
"Don’t be Sean Hannity; don’t be Kathy Griffin."
That one sentence summarizes perfectly the greatest flaw of this ridiculous column.
There is no equivalence between right-wing and left-wing extremism in this country today. Kathy Griffin is a comedian, and she has absolutely no influence. Sean Hannity is a high-paid regular on the nation's most powerful TV propaganda network. Fox News is more responsible than any other entity for the poisonous hatred that has contaminated American politics over the past several decades. After the recent defenestrations of Ailes and O'Reilly, Hannity has become the major offender on its foul air.
Douthat had to go back more than half a century to find violent left-wing radicals to tut-tut about. He suggests that contemporary college campuses are "hothouses" of dangerous liberal thought, but the sole example of an extremist Democrat he mentions, James Hodgkinson, was 66 years old.
Exploiting the tragedy of a mass shooting to write a partisan political column is bad enough; doing such a poor job of it is unforgivable.
That one sentence summarizes perfectly the greatest flaw of this ridiculous column.
There is no equivalence between right-wing and left-wing extremism in this country today. Kathy Griffin is a comedian, and she has absolutely no influence. Sean Hannity is a high-paid regular on the nation's most powerful TV propaganda network. Fox News is more responsible than any other entity for the poisonous hatred that has contaminated American politics over the past several decades. After the recent defenestrations of Ailes and O'Reilly, Hannity has become the major offender on its foul air.
Douthat had to go back more than half a century to find violent left-wing radicals to tut-tut about. He suggests that contemporary college campuses are "hothouses" of dangerous liberal thought, but the sole example of an extremist Democrat he mentions, James Hodgkinson, was 66 years old.
Exploiting the tragedy of a mass shooting to write a partisan political column is bad enough; doing such a poor job of it is unforgivable.
129
@Needra Schneebly: Out of consideration for Mr. Douthat, you should have commended author for his fine writing. Regardless of his viewpoint, RD is a talented journalist, able to encapsulate in plain old Anglo Saxon English a problem clearly and cogently.One says to one's self: I know why is writing for the Times newspaper: He's good and in this particular case, he's really cooking.No, Sean Hannity is no Kathy Griffin, who disgraced herself by holding up decapitated hear of c-in-c and she will never live it down. Even Al Franken, gentleman that he is, agreed to appear with her, but reluctantly.She blamed it all on "old white men," then on Trump and GOP. She's a loser,egged on by Bloom, her atty, who did no have decency to say President Trump, but called him Trump. Hannity,despite his limited formal education, has found his handle in life, talk radio, and he respects fact patterns. He's also an all round man, and I would bet that if you wanted your floor retiled, you would not have to ask him twice.He exemplifies power of positive thinking.Compare him to my bull terrier Duke, whom my sister bought from a jockey at Aqueduct decades ago when she worked for Johnny Campo there:Duke, like Hannity, was always "up!" Lighten up: FOX is no better or worse than other cable news stations, actually better, more balanced.Cheer up, and ask yourself: If I were writing about the sad events on that baseball diamond, could I do a better job than Mr. Douthat?He's a professional writer.
Why is "hated Donald Trump" normal by any civilized standard?
2
Donald Trump is on;y different to the elitist group in this country and they are using everyday people to be the violent ones in this country.
Mr. Douthat, two thoughts for right now. First: You are dangerously - let me repeat dangerously - underestimating the damage of Trump and the horror of which he is capable. Second: You seem to be living in la-la land about violence in this country. You give a passing lip service to right wing violence but THE TRUTH IS that the vast majority of violent acts in our country are right wing. If you cannot speak truth, maybe silence would be in order.
16
This is utter and rank dishonesty. Well, either dishonesty or stupidity.
1
Sorry, Ross-I see no reason to offer sympathy or excuse to any mass murderer or terrorist, nor this guy. This will sound horrible, but I don't care about their mental state, their upbringing, their politics, or their personal motivation.
When a terrorist blows himself up for the sole purpose of killing and maiming as many other people as possible, or an angry man targets police officers for murder, I don't care about his politics. When a mentally ill man arms himself to the teeth and kills people at a crowded movie theatre, or innocent kindergarteners and their teachers at an elementary school, I don't care about their mental problems. When a racist kills worshippers at a church, or a man kills gays because he thinks the Bible told him to do it, I don't care about his difficult upbringing or his religious beliefs.
Please don't ask me to feel for these people. They are tragically damaged. Maybe they were born that way or maybe something or someone damaged them. Perhaps it is my flaw that I cannot rationally examine why they did what they did. But if they are to be forgiven, it is for God to do so, not me.
When a terrorist blows himself up for the sole purpose of killing and maiming as many other people as possible, or an angry man targets police officers for murder, I don't care about his politics. When a mentally ill man arms himself to the teeth and kills people at a crowded movie theatre, or innocent kindergarteners and their teachers at an elementary school, I don't care about their mental problems. When a racist kills worshippers at a church, or a man kills gays because he thinks the Bible told him to do it, I don't care about his difficult upbringing or his religious beliefs.
Please don't ask me to feel for these people. They are tragically damaged. Maybe they were born that way or maybe something or someone damaged them. Perhaps it is my flaw that I cannot rationally examine why they did what they did. But if they are to be forgiven, it is for God to do so, not me.
1
You write "The Trump era is crazy, but not as crazy as I feared." I guess everything is relative. I knew Trump would be a bad president but I was hoping that his divisive campaign was just for show. Here we are 5 months later and Trump is worse than I could have ever anticipated. This feels like a nightmare that won't end.
8
Kathy Griffin made one, monstrously bone-headed error of taste (assuming she is not actually planning to behead the incumbent). Nobody accuses her of worse than that, though that's plenty.
Sean Hannity impugns, lies, misrepresents, and knowingly gives credence to some of the most wild-eyed, bizarre beliefs in our society, every time he's on the air. Nobody he disagrees with is even legitimate, let alone worthy of respect.
Yet here they are equivalent. Refreshing the Times reflects the popular mood at last.
Sean Hannity impugns, lies, misrepresents, and knowingly gives credence to some of the most wild-eyed, bizarre beliefs in our society, every time he's on the air. Nobody he disagrees with is even legitimate, let alone worthy of respect.
Yet here they are equivalent. Refreshing the Times reflects the popular mood at last.
9
The popular belief in the bubble of New York City. You need to take a vacation across the US and you will see the bubble you live in.
Lol...you don't think Griffin has impugned, lied, and "knowingly gives credence to some of the most wild-eyed, bizarre beliefs in our society, every time she's on the air"? Please tell us you really do have more functioning brain cells than you've demonstrated.
It's about guns, Ross. There are always going to be lunatics, of all political stripes. But in most countries they don't have easy access to guns.
God bless 'Murica.
God bless 'Murica.
10
Douthat wants us to understand that societies can be pulled apart by the left as well as the right. No kidding. Anyone who doubts can look up the Spanish Civil War.
And he wants us to understand that Republicans and Democrats hate each other. Hate. Each. Other. And if we focus our attention on Trump rallies, FOX news, the blogosphere, Facebook posts, and a broad array of toxic comments sections taken directly from underneath the billygoats' bridge, we'd be inclined to agree.
But most of us don't Hate. Each. Other. We hate the actions and hate the results and politely ignore that our friends may have voted for the other side.
Our problem is that polarization is good for business if you are a political party. You get those wedge issues out, ramp up the rhetoric to 11 - baby killers, and rapist immigrants and socialists and terrorists, and gun nuts and religious nuts and the 1% - and you sort people into different sides. It is cheaper to court the undecided if there aren't too many of them.
Dial down the rhetoric, give people a reason to think that their vote matters, and for God's sake consider that "The Economy" means food and medicine and a roof to the average person.
Maybe that will dial back some of the embedded anger, and we can go back to fearing that people will randomly shoot us for no reason at all, instead of over politics.
And he wants us to understand that Republicans and Democrats hate each other. Hate. Each. Other. And if we focus our attention on Trump rallies, FOX news, the blogosphere, Facebook posts, and a broad array of toxic comments sections taken directly from underneath the billygoats' bridge, we'd be inclined to agree.
But most of us don't Hate. Each. Other. We hate the actions and hate the results and politely ignore that our friends may have voted for the other side.
Our problem is that polarization is good for business if you are a political party. You get those wedge issues out, ramp up the rhetoric to 11 - baby killers, and rapist immigrants and socialists and terrorists, and gun nuts and religious nuts and the 1% - and you sort people into different sides. It is cheaper to court the undecided if there aren't too many of them.
Dial down the rhetoric, give people a reason to think that their vote matters, and for God's sake consider that "The Economy" means food and medicine and a roof to the average person.
Maybe that will dial back some of the embedded anger, and we can go back to fearing that people will randomly shoot us for no reason at all, instead of over politics.
2
Frustrated in life with the vocabulary of violence ... how many ways can an American citizen fit that profile and act out with attempts at multiple murders?
An outburst at family members or anonymous shots at random drivers on a freeway; shooting at a political celebrity, or attempting to mow down members of a party in power who seem the source of perceived injustice all fit the profile.
And then, how many ways can we generalize for political framing ?
In fact, the commentary moment of the week was (h/t Driftglass) the Friday Newshour when Mark Shields reminded us of the watershed strategy of *knowing* inflammatory speech,taught to candidates by Newt Gingrich ("treasonous", "Un-american", "unpatriotic" etc ).
That heat and division coupled with the mother of all Fake News, now self-abandoned as a too hypocritical "fair and balanced", leads directly to the predictable mayhem of the present.
Who cares about holding the center if the Other can be deemed worthy of elimination ? This momentary hue and cry about civility will fade as the corrosion continues apace and others load up.
An outburst at family members or anonymous shots at random drivers on a freeway; shooting at a political celebrity, or attempting to mow down members of a party in power who seem the source of perceived injustice all fit the profile.
And then, how many ways can we generalize for political framing ?
In fact, the commentary moment of the week was (h/t Driftglass) the Friday Newshour when Mark Shields reminded us of the watershed strategy of *knowing* inflammatory speech,taught to candidates by Newt Gingrich ("treasonous", "Un-american", "unpatriotic" etc ).
That heat and division coupled with the mother of all Fake News, now self-abandoned as a too hypocritical "fair and balanced", leads directly to the predictable mayhem of the present.
Who cares about holding the center if the Other can be deemed worthy of elimination ? This momentary hue and cry about civility will fade as the corrosion continues apace and others load up.
2
There is no center. On one side you have every news station except Fox spreading fake news just as bad as fox. Wake up nimrod its the elitist that want open borders driving the hate. Democrats have jumped on their bus only because of the money. Everyday democrats can't see the direction they are being used for.
Hodgkinson may have been self-radicalized by the dog whistle messaging emanating from the WaPo, NYT, MSNBC, Kathy Griffin, and Shakespeare in the Park.
Words are important.
Words are important.
4
Articles like this are utter nonsense. With 300 million guns in this country, it's become a "killing field". Think about what has and continues to happen. High schools, grade schools, night clubs, theaters, political gatherings, clinics, and on and on. All targets, all random.
Analyzing this last shooting is just a waste of time. The country took no action after the massacre of little children at Sandy Hook. To me that was the tipping point. It's now up to a future generation to reel in the number of guns and some sensible laws on the sale of guns.
Analyzing this last shooting is just a waste of time. The country took no action after the massacre of little children at Sandy Hook. To me that was the tipping point. It's now up to a future generation to reel in the number of guns and some sensible laws on the sale of guns.
4
Eliminating healthcare for 23 million people might be a potent polticizing elixir for many people. This legislation was started in a gerrymandered house and is being worked in secret by money backed Senators and will be signed by a rogue
POTUS assisted by America's arch enemy and its dictator Putin. I can understand why some people might be moved to violence. But most of the violence is from the right and from very ignorant people.
POTUS assisted by America's arch enemy and its dictator Putin. I can understand why some people might be moved to violence. But most of the violence is from the right and from very ignorant people.
2
The people being subsidized don't even use their high dollar copay. The ones getting the free stuff from the government will always be mad when they finally have to work.
Hodgkinson's Disease, never so clearly illustrated as on that baseball field in suburban Virginia this past week, is a typical American illness were angry old men, unhappy with themselves get a gun and then kill innocent people they just don't like. Psychiatrists, security experts, and teachers better become familiar with this lethal illness because it is expanding in this sick country like a bad cancer.
2
"But because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other."
More right wing elites are visible now than ever before in the age of Trump. When did you ever see representatives from Breitbart or Newsmax or Regnery on cable talk shows as much as they are today? MSNBC is awash in conservative talkers.
And maybe Loughner took his cue from Palin because she put a literal bulls eye on Gifford on her website as one of many Democrats who need to be eliminated.
The Trump era is NOT as crazy as you feared? We are 5 months in and even his lawyers are retaining lawyers as we always seem to be one tweet away from a constitutional crisis.
"So we have the space to keep our bearings — which includes remembering that hot political rhetoric is a normal part of high-stakes debate..."
Until liberals enter that arena, then, suddenly, it's the politics of hate and personal destruction.
I love deconstructing conservatism in the age of Trump.
More right wing elites are visible now than ever before in the age of Trump. When did you ever see representatives from Breitbart or Newsmax or Regnery on cable talk shows as much as they are today? MSNBC is awash in conservative talkers.
And maybe Loughner took his cue from Palin because she put a literal bulls eye on Gifford on her website as one of many Democrats who need to be eliminated.
The Trump era is NOT as crazy as you feared? We are 5 months in and even his lawyers are retaining lawyers as we always seem to be one tweet away from a constitutional crisis.
"So we have the space to keep our bearings — which includes remembering that hot political rhetoric is a normal part of high-stakes debate..."
Until liberals enter that arena, then, suddenly, it's the politics of hate and personal destruction.
I love deconstructing conservatism in the age of Trump.
3
We are one tweet away from constitutional crisi because the left is still not over the election where they picked one of the worst candidates ever. The msm could not carry the water and were exposed as a left wing mouthpiece is the problem in this country. Grow up liberals you lost in blazing fashion. Ha ha ha
1
NEWS FLASH:
If Trump is impeached, Hillary Clinton does NOT become president. Another Republican who got the same number of electoral votes as Trump becomes president.
If Hillary was the worst candidate ever, why did all Republicans of substance either endorse her or not endorse the candidate of their own party.
The msm admits it blew it in their $2-3 billion FREE media coverage of Trump.
If Trump is impeached, Hillary Clinton does NOT become president. Another Republican who got the same number of electoral votes as Trump becomes president.
If Hillary was the worst candidate ever, why did all Republicans of substance either endorse her or not endorse the candidate of their own party.
The msm admits it blew it in their $2-3 billion FREE media coverage of Trump.
One year after the Oklahoma bombing president Clinton signed a bipartisan anti-terrorism bill that allowed easier deportation of non citizens with suspected terrorism links and made it easier for police to track sales of chemicals that could be used to make a bomb. He refused to allow unlimited wiretapping because he felt we could be safe without becoming a police state. I don't recall hearing about any further major bombings since, the 9/11 attackers used planes.
According to the mass shootings tracker we're at 201 YTD and there were 477 in 2016, 371 in 2015, 325 in 2014, & 339 in 2013. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if our politicians listened to the majority of Americans who want reasonable requirements for gun owners to keep us safe instead of focusingon the NRA's desire to put a gun in everyone's hands.
The second amendment mentions "well regulated" so we wouldn't be violating the Constitution. Mandatory background checks for all gun sales including private sellers and gun shows and not allowing those who have mental illness or have been accused of domestic violence to have guns would save lives. I don't know anyone who hunts with a semiautomatic gun because they cause too much damage.
But instead of bipartisan solutions to our very real gun problem we get platitudes. What a country.
According to the mass shootings tracker we're at 201 YTD and there were 477 in 2016, 371 in 2015, 325 in 2014, & 339 in 2013. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if our politicians listened to the majority of Americans who want reasonable requirements for gun owners to keep us safe instead of focusingon the NRA's desire to put a gun in everyone's hands.
The second amendment mentions "well regulated" so we wouldn't be violating the Constitution. Mandatory background checks for all gun sales including private sellers and gun shows and not allowing those who have mental illness or have been accused of domestic violence to have guns would save lives. I don't know anyone who hunts with a semiautomatic gun because they cause too much damage.
But instead of bipartisan solutions to our very real gun problem we get platitudes. What a country.
2
Beautiful column Ross. You have grown into this gig in a way that most other columnists never do.
2
Very little is known about Hodgkinson: he was probably loonier in a Hinckley or Loughner way than is yet known. Ditto Oswald: his Marxism does not explain his killing of Kennedy. He had been stalking a right wing ex-general shortly before. Truly political killing usually involves concerted and sustained action by many actors.
Ross-There is much more craziness and violent tendencies among the gun-culture-right in America than the left. It is fed by a racist and falsely pious corporate right wing media. To pretend that this one event somehow makes the rest of it go away is ludicrous. Also, It is also true that violence tends to rise up among populations who are being abused. The rich will lose their hold on the dull and fearful someday. Oh and there is plenty of evidence to show that Jared L. was a right wing assassin. He hated Gabby Giffords. It was a right wing killing. And it was a mass killing. The shooter last week was the only one who died. He shot to wound his victims. Doesn't make it right, but your claims are specious as usual.
2
Very well thought and argued this time Ross. The third thing particularly. The last three paragraphs right on target.
1
Good article. I encourage the NYT to open the floodgates and publish all the comments without filter. Let the world see the despicable people who reside here.
Violent extremism on either end of the political and/or religious ideological spectrum must not be tolerated.
My question is what moves people to violent action? What is the tipping point? Why do some act out their hate and others don't? Most people can curb their thoughts and control their behaviour. Thank God for that.
My question is what moves people to violent action? What is the tipping point? Why do some act out their hate and others don't? Most people can curb their thoughts and control their behaviour. Thank God for that.
So we have a left-wing nut job committing a heinous act and many conservative pundits are quickly transporting us back to those tumultuous 1960s. Mr. Douthat points out, “Part of what went wrong in America in the later ’60s was that the liberal establishment carried water for, protected or excused its far-left children’s rage.” But there is nary a word from him about the fallout from the rapid rise of a conservative media establishment, including talk radio and cable TV, that has been spouting “far-right adult rage” since the end of the Reagan presidency.
The more significant aspect of this conservative media establishment is that during the Obama presidency it started turning away from its conservative political establishment, which ultimately led to the election of Donald Trump. And, it’s universally accepted that Trump’s “politically incorrect” style dramatically increased the coarsening of our politics. Trump brings out the worst in his political opponents and one hoped that after he became president, he would try to heal the growing divide in the country – but he has only worsened it.
So let’s not pretend James Hodgkinson is the start of a 1960s-style déjà vu situation – the problem is not what Mr. Douthat seems to suggest, “ violence in the left-wing core, the university campus, gets met with excuse-making, appeasement and halfhearted punishment from liberal authorities.” It’s more deep-rooted than that and it requires introspection on both sides.
The more significant aspect of this conservative media establishment is that during the Obama presidency it started turning away from its conservative political establishment, which ultimately led to the election of Donald Trump. And, it’s universally accepted that Trump’s “politically incorrect” style dramatically increased the coarsening of our politics. Trump brings out the worst in his political opponents and one hoped that after he became president, he would try to heal the growing divide in the country – but he has only worsened it.
So let’s not pretend James Hodgkinson is the start of a 1960s-style déjà vu situation – the problem is not what Mr. Douthat seems to suggest, “ violence in the left-wing core, the university campus, gets met with excuse-making, appeasement and halfhearted punishment from liberal authorities.” It’s more deep-rooted than that and it requires introspection on both sides.
1
Well done in general Ross.
Here's one to examine:
"But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous — or only dangerous because he’s hapless…"
Hapless?
Here are two articles about the dangers of eliminating regulations for ideological reasons and the far-reaching negative impact on average Americans if Trump stacks the judicial deck with far right extremist judges.
Generations of problems.
Read these and maybe next time we'll all realize, especially hard left voters, that you can actually cut off your nose to spite your face. Clinton would have been a relatively normal president.
Here ya go…
Regulation:
http://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/trump-war-on-regulations/
Judiciary:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/14/trump-judicial-nominee...
Here's one to examine:
"But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous — or only dangerous because he’s hapless…"
Hapless?
Here are two articles about the dangers of eliminating regulations for ideological reasons and the far-reaching negative impact on average Americans if Trump stacks the judicial deck with far right extremist judges.
Generations of problems.
Read these and maybe next time we'll all realize, especially hard left voters, that you can actually cut off your nose to spite your face. Clinton would have been a relatively normal president.
Here ya go…
Regulation:
http://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/trump-war-on-regulations/
Judiciary:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/14/trump-judicial-nominee...
Ross, this shooter was not normal. His political views may have been normal, but his psyche and actions were not normal. He was obviously a very disturbed person. Sound people don't shoot people on a baseball diamond or anywhere else. Saying he's normal is like saying a murderer is normal because he eats breakfast just like you and me, or is like saying a rapist is normal because he watches ESPN just like other guys.
This shooter happened to be a Democrat, but he could just have well been a Republican shooting Democrats. I think that's as far as the conversation should be taken. It's fine to talk about partisan rancor, and debate who is at fault, but I don't think that should be part of the discussion about this lunatic shooting people. Many, many people intensely detest Donald Trump and his ilk, including me, but we wouldn't think of using violence to express our political views. We are normal. This shooter was not normal.
This shooter happened to be a Democrat, but he could just have well been a Republican shooting Democrats. I think that's as far as the conversation should be taken. It's fine to talk about partisan rancor, and debate who is at fault, but I don't think that should be part of the discussion about this lunatic shooting people. Many, many people intensely detest Donald Trump and his ilk, including me, but we wouldn't think of using violence to express our political views. We are normal. This shooter was not normal.
3
Mr. Douthat do you have to be so smugly condescending towards anyone from left of yourself? This attitude merely furthers that which you decry making you part of the problem and not the solution.
3
So, are you saying that the heated political speech coming from the left could eventually inspire more 1960's style liberal violence, but you shouldn't let that stop you from insulting those deplorable liars on the right?
2
You write:
But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous — or only dangerous because he’s hapless
Seriously? Have you noticed the money he's raking in, the association of his associates with Russia? The continuing violations of legal and political norms? His personal unfitness for office?
He's very dangerous, whether hapless or playing four dimensional chess.
But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous — or only dangerous because he’s hapless
Seriously? Have you noticed the money he's raking in, the association of his associates with Russia? The continuing violations of legal and political norms? His personal unfitness for office?
He's very dangerous, whether hapless or playing four dimensional chess.
1
The question, “What is government if words have no meaning?” needs to be asked of the Trumpster more than any other person in this world.
As noted on Seth Meyer's A Closer Look, Trump has spoken *all* of these statements:
"I have no relationship with Putin"
"I do have a relationship [with Putin]"
"I have nothing to do with Putin. I have never spoken to him."
". . . I spoke indirectly - and directly - with Putin."
Ross, words have meaning? Words don't have meaning? As a person who writes for a living, I would have to assume you hold to the former. So, how do you justify not calling Trump out on his "way" with words pretty much every column? Not doing so is tantamount to saying, "It's okay."
As noted on Seth Meyer's A Closer Look, Trump has spoken *all* of these statements:
"I have no relationship with Putin"
"I do have a relationship [with Putin]"
"I have nothing to do with Putin. I have never spoken to him."
". . . I spoke indirectly - and directly - with Putin."
Ross, words have meaning? Words don't have meaning? As a person who writes for a living, I would have to assume you hold to the former. So, how do you justify not calling Trump out on his "way" with words pretty much every column? Not doing so is tantamount to saying, "It's okay."
2
The Southern Poverty Law Center tracks hate crimes and the extremist groups that commit many such crimes. The number of groups seems to vary between 800 and 1200, and they are described in some detail. Where are the left-wing equivalents of the KKK, of the Neo-Nazis, or of the heavily armed "militias" who train to fight our government? And who was it preached that the problem is actually the government? Douthat makes a living by writing tendentious nonsense. Sad.
4
Sorry Ross, it's the right wing GOP gun lobby masquerading as a political party, not the moderate to liberal to progressive lefties, that is tirelessly allowing every lunatic with an axe to grind to arm himself (and it's almost exclusively men) with with any and all guns, no limitations allowed, never mind that Constitutional clause about a "well regulated militia". This is squarely the fault of the GOP. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
3
Ross, I think you would benefit from studying some history. In my opinion, the polarization between the left and right started with Newt Gingrich and the "so called" 1994 Republican Revolution. Gingrich and his young cronies not only declared war on the Democrats but on the Republican establishment, for want of a better word.
Gingrich pursued a scorched earth policy against any one, regardless of political party, who did not share his views. The GOP passed the Contract on America knowing full well that it was going nowhere. Gingrich was the first to understand that you could cynically manipulate uneducated and even educated voters with promises that could never be kept.
After Gingrich we got Hastert/Armey followed by Hastert/Delay. And the demonization of political opponents continued. Armey took his revenge on the GOP as a co-founder of the T-party. and all this time Gingrich has struggled to remain relevant. During the Bush years, Hastert/DeLay ran domestic policy while the neo-cons, with Dick Cheney at the helm, gave us Iraq and eventually ISIS. Meanwhile Hastert/DeLay started to run up the national debt as the neo-cons funded the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on the national credit card. And the demonization continued.
The Democrats had their own issues and scandals, most notably Jim Wright and Bill Clinton. And today, we still have Trump, Gingrich light. May God save America because the GOP is incapable of doing it.
Gingrich pursued a scorched earth policy against any one, regardless of political party, who did not share his views. The GOP passed the Contract on America knowing full well that it was going nowhere. Gingrich was the first to understand that you could cynically manipulate uneducated and even educated voters with promises that could never be kept.
After Gingrich we got Hastert/Armey followed by Hastert/Delay. And the demonization of political opponents continued. Armey took his revenge on the GOP as a co-founder of the T-party. and all this time Gingrich has struggled to remain relevant. During the Bush years, Hastert/DeLay ran domestic policy while the neo-cons, with Dick Cheney at the helm, gave us Iraq and eventually ISIS. Meanwhile Hastert/DeLay started to run up the national debt as the neo-cons funded the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan on the national credit card. And the demonization continued.
The Democrats had their own issues and scandals, most notably Jim Wright and Bill Clinton. And today, we still have Trump, Gingrich light. May God save America because the GOP is incapable of doing it.
2
"In my opinion, the polarization between the left and right started with Newt Gingrich" and it has been perfected by the NY Times Editorial Board.
1
I couldn't agree with you more!
Mr. Douthat was born a decade after "what went wrong in America in the later '60s,' so instead of repeating tropes about how the establishment excused the far-left's rage, perhaps he should talk to people who experience it. There is nuance that he completely misses.
First, the rage wasn't only on the far-left, but across the whole left of the spectrum. The illegal bombing of Cambodia was denounced not just on college campuses, but by liberals and moderates on the floors of the House and Senate. The murder of students at Jackson State and Kent State shocked moderate and extremist alike.
Second, liberals were attacked by leftist radicals using "revolutionary" rhetoric, and defended themselves using Locke, Mill, and ultimately just after the close of the '60s with the publication of Rawls' Theory of Justice. To say that any of this "excused" violence or incitement is a clear misreading of history.
Third, on the ground, many of us took a much more nuance view. Yes, some reviled and spit upon those who went to Vietnam. Many of us listened and recognized that the guy drafted into the Army and sent to walk point through the jungle was also a victim of the madness and a potential ally in ending it.
Finally, at least some of us (perhaps with relatives on the fringe right) recognized the sheer insanity of thinking that the left could ever affect positive change with violence. Some had seen the stockpiles of weapons that the right had and knew that "revolution" was suicide.
First, the rage wasn't only on the far-left, but across the whole left of the spectrum. The illegal bombing of Cambodia was denounced not just on college campuses, but by liberals and moderates on the floors of the House and Senate. The murder of students at Jackson State and Kent State shocked moderate and extremist alike.
Second, liberals were attacked by leftist radicals using "revolutionary" rhetoric, and defended themselves using Locke, Mill, and ultimately just after the close of the '60s with the publication of Rawls' Theory of Justice. To say that any of this "excused" violence or incitement is a clear misreading of history.
Third, on the ground, many of us took a much more nuance view. Yes, some reviled and spit upon those who went to Vietnam. Many of us listened and recognized that the guy drafted into the Army and sent to walk point through the jungle was also a victim of the madness and a potential ally in ending it.
Finally, at least some of us (perhaps with relatives on the fringe right) recognized the sheer insanity of thinking that the left could ever affect positive change with violence. Some had seen the stockpiles of weapons that the right had and knew that "revolution" was suicide.
1
Liberal America never carried water for left wing rage. The left wing hated main stream Democrats as much as they despised the Republicans. Liberal was a derogatory term against anyone who wanted to work within the system. Liberal America did promote free speech for those they disagreed with and for left wing groups. Currently, it is the ultra right wing that is supporting free speech for conspiracy theorists such as Alex Jones. The center left media is also giving him a platform with the NBC interview.
1
Ross, several times in this editorial you mention that the shooter was a liberal, a democrat etc. Like Trump you need to blame someone was an atmosphere created by the republicans and people like you. You and most other Republicans attacked and disrespected Obama for eight years. Your Republican president has not uttered one word to heal the country. It's your Republican Party that wants every man, woman and child to carry guns. You have no shame in blaming the democrats or liberal minded people.
3
Yes, it's hard to find liberal hatred in our public discourse that can match the hatred spewed by Limbaugh, Hannity and lesser loudmouths like Lou Dobbs. You don't think Americans have been listening to this filth daily for 20 years without influencing the uneducated and ill-informed of the New Republicanism. It has been too successful and all GOP candidates for President since Bush Senior have used it on the campaign trail to exploit fear and hatred against liberals and our federal government.
But one can easily agree that liberal hatred expressed violently is as bad as that from Rightwing nuts. What you can never say is that there are public liberals from any part of the country who have stooped to the blind hatred and lies of Republicans.
But one can easily agree that liberal hatred expressed violently is as bad as that from Rightwing nuts. What you can never say is that there are public liberals from any part of the country who have stooped to the blind hatred and lies of Republicans.
4
The Times would be wise to take away Mr. Douthat's pen. I'm near the point of not giving his columns a read anymore. "Hodgkinson's seeming normalcy"?
3
A very wise column. But I also know that liberals are blind to their own shortcomings. You are wise but you are hated because you are conservative. That is the truth about America's once leading newspaper.
The Trump era is not as bad as you feared? He hasn't even been in office six months.
What are you waiting for, Mr.Douthat to call it bad? He's only begun his tirade.
The United States has become an embarrassment around the world. That's bad, Ross, that's bad.
What are you waiting for, Mr.Douthat to call it bad? He's only begun his tirade.
The United States has become an embarrassment around the world. That's bad, Ross, that's bad.
2
A while back my husband and I attended an open house at an Islamic center in Worcester. Our adult daughter was fearful of us going. Not because she feared the Muslims but because she feared a gun attack by some crazed right winger with an unbridled hatred of Muslims. I must admit I had similar concerns. There were some agitators in the audience looking for a confrontation. They were there for one purpose only- to intimidate the Muslim community and to disrupt the peaceful event. Since MA is a liberal, well educated, and tolerant state most audience members were appalled at the disrespectful rhetoric and aggressive attitude of this handful of people. Most were extremely embarrassed by this hateful display. Had there been any altercation or attempt at violence the crowd at large would have taken this guy down. How awful to live in a country where our children are fearful of a visit to a local mosque, synagogue, a mall or a theater. I will no longer visit ANY state with lax gun laws coupled with the accepted intolerance of others and I encourage my loved ones to do the same. Our lives are far too precious to spend even a minute in states that don't make the safety of their citizens and their visitors paramount. Maybe if we start protesting with our wallets the states that put gun rights above the safety of their people will rethink their positions. Cripple their tourism economies and let their Chambers of Commerce know the reasons why you will no longer visit their states.
4
One thing left uncommented in the coverage of the baseball shooting is this. According to the reports, Scalise dragged himself from second base to the dugout leaving a trail of blood. Not one congressman ran to his assistance. What does that say about them?
I think of Rita Starpattern, a student who put her own life in danger to assist a pregnant woman in the original U. Texas shootings and of many across the years who have assisted others in the face of danger. (e.g., as recently as Portland). In Virginia, the police were brave and did their duty. What of the congressmen?
I think of Rita Starpattern, a student who put her own life in danger to assist a pregnant woman in the original U. Texas shootings and of many across the years who have assisted others in the face of danger. (e.g., as recently as Portland). In Virginia, the police were brave and did their duty. What of the congressmen?
3
Contrary to Ross Douthat's claim that Alexandria was a "murderous attack," it wasn't. It was a potentially murderous attack since no one died.
1
Had James Hodgkinson shot Democrats, Trump and this week's collection of assigned attack dog's from the Republicans in Congress -- which may have included Representative Scalise -- would have been pointing to ("fake news") validation that Democratic values are "unamerican." Republicans started all of this. They play entirely to an unsophisticated political base of approximately 62 million Trump voters. Their sole political strategy is to increase that incensed, faux-angry number, and to dumb us down as a nation even further.
Republicans are the problem. They preach "hate your government." They preach guns because it (1) plays well, and (2) makes a lot of money. They preach xenophobia and faux-patriotism. Now, they are led by Trump, who has deliberately mounted a systematic attack on truth itself. Their strategy for political dominance is to make as many Americans as they are able as stupid and confused as possible. It's transparent.
Resist.
Republicans are the problem. They preach "hate your government." They preach guns because it (1) plays well, and (2) makes a lot of money. They preach xenophobia and faux-patriotism. Now, they are led by Trump, who has deliberately mounted a systematic attack on truth itself. Their strategy for political dominance is to make as many Americans as they are able as stupid and confused as possible. It's transparent.
Resist.
6
Unrestricted access to guns in combination with never ending layoffs and reduced access to healthcare is not a recipe for success but a prescription for revolution.
We have a president who advocated for 2nd amendment remedies if a democrat was elected president and now a citizen has practiced just that against a congress that is voting to hurt 97% of the population.
The crass, crude, racist, misogynistic voices I hear are all coming from Fox News, Breitbart, Red State, Daily Caller, Coutler, Yanniopolis, Limbaugh, Levin....had the tables been turned, all of these people would be calling the shooter a patriot. All of them
We have a president who advocated for 2nd amendment remedies if a democrat was elected president and now a citizen has practiced just that against a congress that is voting to hurt 97% of the population.
The crass, crude, racist, misogynistic voices I hear are all coming from Fox News, Breitbart, Red State, Daily Caller, Coutler, Yanniopolis, Limbaugh, Levin....had the tables been turned, all of these people would be calling the shooter a patriot. All of them
2
It is a very good idea for the media to turn down the decibels on partisan bickering. Some fringe people, on either side, may act on them.
With Trump tweeting insults and lies on a daily basis, and the media's job is to reporting them, I dont see how !
With Trump tweeting insults and lies on a daily basis, and the media's job is to reporting them, I dont see how !
2
As I expected from a republican sympathizer, this column is largely free of facts. Ross can’t bring himself to talk about republicans and their embrace of the NRA. Were it up to these maniacs, school teachers would be armed and 9 year olds would be exercising their second amendment “rights”.
And as to the left “carrying water” for the flower children in1968, maybe he and every other Trump excuser needs to be reminded of what was going on back then. We were carrying out a war in which over a million Vietnamese died along with tens of thousands of Americans killed or wounded. The rage was fully justified.
And as to the left “carrying water” for the flower children in1968, maybe he and every other Trump excuser needs to be reminded of what was going on back then. We were carrying out a war in which over a million Vietnamese died along with tens of thousands of Americans killed or wounded. The rage was fully justified.
3
you minimize hodgkinson's violent history to create a profile. what if he was not able to buy a gun so easily because of his history of violence?
3
What I'm about to write is extremely cynical, but it needs to be written.
This most recent shooting of Congressman Scalice and four companions may well usher in at least a temporary period of greater civility, and perhaps even greater cooperation, but not for the reasons many think.
For far too long, the fear/paranoia aspect of American political relations has been decidedly asymmetrical. The sides despise each other, but generally it has been the alt-right fringe that will take violent action. Liberals can be loud, but they're wimps (or snowflakes); they run at the first sign of real trouble, or so the conservative story goes--only real, red blooded, gun-toting Americans can be counted on to stand up to "those who would destroy our way of life". Liberals will yell, but they won't fight--not in the physical way that REALLY counts.
So, up until this latest incident, liberals had much to fear--they could easily become targets of locked and loaded alt-rightists. Conservatives had little to fear from wimps. Until now.
This incident indicates that there's at least one person on the left who knows how to fire a weapon--likely surprising many on the right. And if there's one, there might be more. And, y'know, if we might be finding ourselves in the crosshairs, maybe we ought to talk more, ratchet down the rhetoric just a bit.
Very cynical, yes. But it's interesting that "rightist" calls for a time out increased after a "leftist" shooting incident.
This most recent shooting of Congressman Scalice and four companions may well usher in at least a temporary period of greater civility, and perhaps even greater cooperation, but not for the reasons many think.
For far too long, the fear/paranoia aspect of American political relations has been decidedly asymmetrical. The sides despise each other, but generally it has been the alt-right fringe that will take violent action. Liberals can be loud, but they're wimps (or snowflakes); they run at the first sign of real trouble, or so the conservative story goes--only real, red blooded, gun-toting Americans can be counted on to stand up to "those who would destroy our way of life". Liberals will yell, but they won't fight--not in the physical way that REALLY counts.
So, up until this latest incident, liberals had much to fear--they could easily become targets of locked and loaded alt-rightists. Conservatives had little to fear from wimps. Until now.
This incident indicates that there's at least one person on the left who knows how to fire a weapon--likely surprising many on the right. And if there's one, there might be more. And, y'know, if we might be finding ourselves in the crosshairs, maybe we ought to talk more, ratchet down the rhetoric just a bit.
Very cynical, yes. But it's interesting that "rightist" calls for a time out increased after a "leftist" shooting incident.
2
I would add that both the right and the left made ample space for misogyny during the campaign. Hodgkinson had what the Times euphemistically calls a "volatile home life" and what I call a pattern of abusing the women in his life. Violence at home-- and the perception of a right to such violence-- is often a prelude to larger violence, and our society is giving that nexus more, not less, space to flourish, on both ends of the political spectrum.
2
You seem to say you 'know' who the shooter is. Really? Read a bit about him and you'll see a truly, troubled individual with years of violent abuse of others. He's been on a downward spiral for a long time; and I have no idea what his life was like decades ago.
Most of violent actions taken in the name of extremism seem to have been done by psychologically troubled people. Call their mental condition what you will; they are deeply troubled. This leads them into the violence; and many times they either are 'coaxed' into acting out hatred, or they lead themselves, after hearing innumerable hate-filled attacks. His 'politics', which you seem to focus on, have been overrun by the demons in his head (which also had led to the abuse of his family for years).
The love of gain, material wealth, lucre is destroying our communities and planet. Some of those lost in the storm act out in a mad rage, at times. We have little empathy and/or treatment for these folks while they move downward.
I'm so sorry for those hurt, their families and all those personally impacted by that day's carnage. Sorry for their suffering.
Good people, whether they be Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Muslims, or any other 'affiliation', do mostly good. Mostly love and give and help.
That man that shot those people on the baseball diamond had lost his mind, his spirit, his love. We must move to stop that from happening to others; and only love can stop it.
Most of violent actions taken in the name of extremism seem to have been done by psychologically troubled people. Call their mental condition what you will; they are deeply troubled. This leads them into the violence; and many times they either are 'coaxed' into acting out hatred, or they lead themselves, after hearing innumerable hate-filled attacks. His 'politics', which you seem to focus on, have been overrun by the demons in his head (which also had led to the abuse of his family for years).
The love of gain, material wealth, lucre is destroying our communities and planet. Some of those lost in the storm act out in a mad rage, at times. We have little empathy and/or treatment for these folks while they move downward.
I'm so sorry for those hurt, their families and all those personally impacted by that day's carnage. Sorry for their suffering.
Good people, whether they be Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Muslims, or any other 'affiliation', do mostly good. Mostly love and give and help.
That man that shot those people on the baseball diamond had lost his mind, his spirit, his love. We must move to stop that from happening to others; and only love can stop it.
28
As a liberal, I think this was a reasonably fair-minded column. However, as the writer above eloquently states, Russ errs by suggesting the shooter was a "normal" Democrat. He did have a history of domestic abuse and violence. It saddens me that anyone would use violence, especially gun violence, to air their grievances. I learned peace and love back in the 60s, and I plan to keep that as my operating philosophy.
Yes, that's the philosophy we so need. Whenever my high-school students would ask me if I had been 'a hippie', I usually said that I think hippies were mostly about peace and love, and if that's the case, then I'm still a hippie.
This man was a dangerous abuser. Stop dismissing the violence against women and children by calling him "mentally ill". He was a violent man who used his power over vulnerable people and shot people who he thought had power over him.
OK russ--got it--the extreme left is violent. The right--not so much really.
Fair and balanced.
Fair and balanced.
2
Move over, Newt; stand aside, Steve King. Ross Douthat posits that James Hodgkinson was an excessively enraged but otherwise "ordinary Midwestern Democrat" and, but for this character flaw, an otherwise "decent liberal." The appalling act of a lunatic is, to Douthat, laid squarely at the doorstep of the left. Shamefully, Douthat fails to heed his own advice: to "police" what he says "for lies, for slander, for stupidity, for simple vileness."
1
The FBI called for help in identifying James Hodgkinson. Anyone with information, please call.
The man just bought two guns. Perhaps if the sale required a serious background check...?
Political intolerance is only part of the problem. The other part is the Second Amendment -- or the current interpretation. Every other Right is limited, but not the right to bear arms. We can't even gather statistics.
Who's afraid of the truth?
The man just bought two guns. Perhaps if the sale required a serious background check...?
Political intolerance is only part of the problem. The other part is the Second Amendment -- or the current interpretation. Every other Right is limited, but not the right to bear arms. We can't even gather statistics.
Who's afraid of the truth?
2
"...societies can be pulled apart from the left as easily as from the right." Wow. Welcome to reality. Given that American societal/cultural values are conservative values (liberty, limited government, Constitutionalism/rule of law, traditional family, prosperity, charity, God-based morality), American society has almost exclusively been "pulled apart" by the left.
2
NOT! american society /cultural values are for tolerance of minorities and protection of minority rights - the entire constitution is based on the protection of minorities from majorities, buddy! Freedom from religion, secondly - no "god based" fictional "morality", please, but jeffersonian freedom from religion - this is a founding tenet!! and encourage immigrants and the poor, provide a decent education free to all, and to preserve our precious environment, upon which we all depend.... I find your comment frightening, since "god-based: to me means prejudiced, anti- environment and anti-minorities, as well as for some reason pro-gun. I don't care where you live, your interpretation of our society is historically and factually WRONG!!
1
I agree, "don't parse your every word for what a maniac might make of it. This is a free country, and still, thank God, a mostly peaceful one. Say what you believe." Bravo!
We can't control someone else's mental instability, or their lack of anger management and personal shut off valve controls before they do actual violence. A maniac is a maniac, after all, as we all reminded daily from random killings, serial killings, and mass killings worldwide.
We can't control someone else's mental instability, or their lack of anger management and personal shut off valve controls before they do actual violence. A maniac is a maniac, after all, as we all reminded daily from random killings, serial killings, and mass killings worldwide.
1
A crazy man with a gun shot Gabby Giffords. The R's did nothing, because she was a D.
A crazy man with a gun shot children in CT, but the R's did nothing because they were someone else's babies.
A crazy man with a gun shot churchgoers in SC, but the R's did nothing, because they aren't black.
A crazy man with a gun shot an Indian engineer in KS, but the R's did nothing because the shooter hated Muslims and they aren't brown.
Etc, etc.
Now a crazy man with a gun shot at them. What will the R's do?
Will they ever try to take the gun away from the crazy man?
A crazy man with a gun shot children in CT, but the R's did nothing because they were someone else's babies.
A crazy man with a gun shot churchgoers in SC, but the R's did nothing, because they aren't black.
A crazy man with a gun shot an Indian engineer in KS, but the R's did nothing because the shooter hated Muslims and they aren't brown.
Etc, etc.
Now a crazy man with a gun shot at them. What will the R's do?
Will they ever try to take the gun away from the crazy man?
10
Attorney General holder refused to bring charges against those who committed fraud on their gun application as reported by the Washington TImes in 2013 these cases dropped by 42% under AG Holder and Democrat Obama administration.
These are the same people who argued that the US government should be allowed to expand its computer checks of citizens for gun control because they could do a 100% accurate job. However these very same people decried mandatory Everify saying the 1% inaccuracy rate was proof that innocent citizens might be temporarily inconveinced to prevent illegals from taking American jobs. Talking out of both sides of their mouth....
This is the same administration that refused to bring criminal charges against any top executive on Wall Street for the 2008 global recession.
These are the same people who argued that the US government should be allowed to expand its computer checks of citizens for gun control because they could do a 100% accurate job. However these very same people decried mandatory Everify saying the 1% inaccuracy rate was proof that innocent citizens might be temporarily inconveinced to prevent illegals from taking American jobs. Talking out of both sides of their mouth....
This is the same administration that refused to bring criminal charges against any top executive on Wall Street for the 2008 global recession.
1
L's seek to eliminate God-based morality (you know, like opposition to murder) from the societal/cultural landscape. L's seek to eliminate the death penalty for murderers and either release violent and property criminals from jail/prison or never incarcerate them. L's have expanded the welfare state and single-motherhood that dooms many boys to lives of crime. L's encourage folks to view themselves as victims based on race, gender, class, etc. and nothing motivates folks to violence more.
R's fight L's. Don't be an L.
R's fight L's. Don't be an L.
1
To quote one of your heroes, "There you go again."
6
Mr. Douthat, you realize that the shooter had a history of arrests for violence, and exhibited signs of mental illness? Is it your position that all Democrats are mentally ill persons with records of criminal violence? If so, please provide the factual basis for this opinion. If not, your opinion that Hodgkinson was an "angry but relatively mainstream Democrat" is false, and only adds to the division in this country.
4
Angry Democrats or Republicans do not try to assassinate elected officers.
Only those that suffer from extreme mental illness and easy access to assault weapons do.
Only those that suffer from extreme mental illness and easy access to assault weapons do.
128
The politicians and the media have for years stoked this division amongst us and it is no wonder that in a 24/7 cable and internet era that mentally unstable people on both sides will act out because they feel legitimized by our leaders on both sides of the aisle and in the executive suite of media companies....
1
Perhaps a moot point, but a lot of people seem to get things like this wrong.
John Kennedy was shot with a WWII Italian bolt action rifle, Martin Luther King with a bolt action hunting rifle, Robert Kennedy and Ronal Reagan a pistol, and the attempts on Gerald Ford were with pistols. As I recall Hinckley was the only one determined to be not be guilty by reason of insanity.
The shooter at Alexandria used an SKS, a 10 round semi-automatic rifle that nominally uses stripper clips instead of magazines for reloading. Since it doesn't use a detachable magazine for reloading it isn’t considered an 'assault weapon' in many cases, apparently including California and New York. If it has been modified to use a detachable magazine then it meets the assault weapon criteria in many cases.
John Kennedy was shot with a WWII Italian bolt action rifle, Martin Luther King with a bolt action hunting rifle, Robert Kennedy and Ronal Reagan a pistol, and the attempts on Gerald Ford were with pistols. As I recall Hinckley was the only one determined to be not be guilty by reason of insanity.
The shooter at Alexandria used an SKS, a 10 round semi-automatic rifle that nominally uses stripper clips instead of magazines for reloading. Since it doesn't use a detachable magazine for reloading it isn’t considered an 'assault weapon' in many cases, apparently including California and New York. If it has been modified to use a detachable magazine then it meets the assault weapon criteria in many cases.
Just off the cuff, a lot of Commenters to this particular Column are seeing the current American psyche for what it truly is: a lack of tolerance. Americans have simply run out of fuel for being polite, patient, respectful, tolerant and, dare I say it, politically correct.
We tried to be aware of so many things in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s, and yet we find ourselves in the worse straits we have been in since the end of WWII. Being socially, culturally, racially, politically and gender aware has not brought our society and civilization to any kind of fair and/or balanced understanding of one another. People cannot put up with the person in the apartment next door, much less the person in the building next door nor the person down the block.
The concept of society as a whole has failed and proven to be unworkable. More and more people, on Quora, and on other sites are questioning existence, why we are even here, and their individual lives themselves. It can be readily seen how a young woman in MA can prompt someone else to take their own life. This is the same human instinct that prompts someone to yell "Jump!" at the scene of someone up on the ledge thinking about it.
Upcoming generations are especially questioning the entire nature of society, culture and their existence. We are seeing increasing rates of those who choose to simply opt out and commit suicide. As we also see they often choose to take others with them.
We tried to be aware of so many things in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and early 2000s, and yet we find ourselves in the worse straits we have been in since the end of WWII. Being socially, culturally, racially, politically and gender aware has not brought our society and civilization to any kind of fair and/or balanced understanding of one another. People cannot put up with the person in the apartment next door, much less the person in the building next door nor the person down the block.
The concept of society as a whole has failed and proven to be unworkable. More and more people, on Quora, and on other sites are questioning existence, why we are even here, and their individual lives themselves. It can be readily seen how a young woman in MA can prompt someone else to take their own life. This is the same human instinct that prompts someone to yell "Jump!" at the scene of someone up on the ledge thinking about it.
Upcoming generations are especially questioning the entire nature of society, culture and their existence. We are seeing increasing rates of those who choose to simply opt out and commit suicide. As we also see they often choose to take others with them.
3
When Douthat says the media spent a long time assuming that Loughner was tea-party inspired, it's too bad that he can't add the necessary and obvious clause, "up to and including last week by the New York Times editorial staff, which shamefully and inaccurately stated that Loughner was incited by Sarah Palin."
I have only one comment and question: violence against your political "enemy" is actually not that common given the number of guns that are owned (perhaps because they are mostly owned by the Right which is the dominant political party in states and the Congress. If Americans really don't like what's going on why have they consisitently not come out to vote in nearly every election we've ever had? Even when they win, politicians have earned less than 50% of the votes of eligible voters -- and that's before you include the number of voters that the Republicans eliminate or disqualify!
What made that man angry were the politics of the people he went after. Some of the so called crazies of the Republican party you never denounce or if you do, using words that have no influence on the mind of people. Stop blaming the so called left, the far right is to blame.
1
I've seen versions of the first point all over the Conservative Press: this was a totally average, normal, sane, Bernie volunteer- just like all the others, unlike all the insane people who shot Democrats (e.g. Gabby). Why don't we wait to find out more about his motives before making this conclusion? I am not willing to agree that a man who attempts mass murder is just like me.
1
'Now under scrutiny by the F.B.I. and congressional investigators, Mr. Flynn faces legal bills' - Everyone always forgets the Pentagon investigation as well.
I never thought the left had gun toting avengers. So this was a wake up call. I feared "second amendment solutions" from the right. Having said that (and being a left leaning 66 year old white male gun owner), I believe that this latest horrible shooting event will prove to be the work of a sociopath who sought suicide by cop.
False equivalency all the way down.
1
We have had two instances of domestic terrorism in the past two weeks. Alexandria & Portland. Who were the perpetrators? Yet, our President harps on his travel ban with all its dog whistles. Yes, there is a serious problem with our discourse.
Mr Douthat, there are more than a few lessons to be learned from the attempted mass murder of republican politicians by a democratic derangee.
First, those self same republicans, encouraged and abetted the denigration of federal government, their employees and anyone who tries to find pragmatic compromise with democrats, let alone the left. Simply recall the feckless hemming and hawing of republicans when the bundy bunch and their y'all Qaeda milita wannabes exerted their rage in Oregon.
Second, the republicans may reap what they've sown through their cowardly support of anything the NRA proposes. Just imagine if, rather than just James Hodgkinson acting alone with his assault weapon, there were two or three such guys. Imagine further that one or two of them had silencers on his or her semi automatic weapon. The matter of military weaponry and worse in the hands of nut cases or demagogues is a republican caused problem for this country.
Third, our population is an emotional, intellectual and ethical bell curve. Not all of our people can discern nuance; some of them simply act out what they believe are righteous causes. When the media conflates with propaganda and conflates with talk show entertainment and embraces the weaponry endorsed by republicans, we end up with a volatile mix.
The political agenda of the republican politicians is ruining this country. Well, at least those planks of their agenda based on propaganda, demonization and unrestricted weaponry.
First, those self same republicans, encouraged and abetted the denigration of federal government, their employees and anyone who tries to find pragmatic compromise with democrats, let alone the left. Simply recall the feckless hemming and hawing of republicans when the bundy bunch and their y'all Qaeda milita wannabes exerted their rage in Oregon.
Second, the republicans may reap what they've sown through their cowardly support of anything the NRA proposes. Just imagine if, rather than just James Hodgkinson acting alone with his assault weapon, there were two or three such guys. Imagine further that one or two of them had silencers on his or her semi automatic weapon. The matter of military weaponry and worse in the hands of nut cases or demagogues is a republican caused problem for this country.
Third, our population is an emotional, intellectual and ethical bell curve. Not all of our people can discern nuance; some of them simply act out what they believe are righteous causes. When the media conflates with propaganda and conflates with talk show entertainment and embraces the weaponry endorsed by republicans, we end up with a volatile mix.
The political agenda of the republican politicians is ruining this country. Well, at least those planks of their agenda based on propaganda, demonization and unrestricted weaponry.
1
"But as Trump proves more hapless than dangerous..."
What is more dangerous than a President who simply has no interest in being President except to see how much money he can make from it. A man who is willing to ignore a blatant act of aggression from the Russians because it will diminish his victory. A man who seems to delight in appointing the most unqualified person he can find for major government posts?
Ross, how can you write such a sentence?
What is more dangerous than a President who simply has no interest in being President except to see how much money he can make from it. A man who is willing to ignore a blatant act of aggression from the Russians because it will diminish his victory. A man who seems to delight in appointing the most unqualified person he can find for major government posts?
Ross, how can you write such a sentence?
3
I watched seventeen Republican presidential candidates debate in 2016 in what seemed like a competition to see who could spew the angriest rhetoric to a crowd eager to swallow it all. The candidate with the most vile and consistent insults was the big winner. The mild mannered John Kasich was with rare exception, always at or near the bottom of party support. It was the same in 2012 with thoughtful candidate Jon Huntsman, the big loser then. Yes Mr. Douthat, progressive's are full of faults. We don't elect lunatics though, or as standard practice prey on people's fears and rage. The number two choice of the Republican party in 2016 was Ted Cruz. Remember?
6
"Now, though, we hate each other simply for being Democrats and Republicans more than ever... " And I suspect much of that is because so many people simply don't communicate or listen well, and also, fail to understand the emotions tacitly underlying the opinions of those who aren't of their ilk.
This column commits the profound category error of taking a horrible instance from the unrestrained and neverending epidemic of mass and multiple shootings, refusing to plainly and accurately name it, and instead transposing it into a smartypants taxonomy of assassination lore. Cooling passions is one thing, but seeing Ross Douthat evasively reducing the tragic ramifications of these events into an affectless survey of pop-culture iconography requiring a detached display of erudition and red-blue color coding is one more reason why I find him such a limited and self-complacent moralist.
4
People associated with the Pro-Life movement, who regularly attended their demonstrations at women's clinics have occasionally gone on to bomb clinics, and kill doctors and nurses. The movement they professed to be part of denied them, and abhorred their actions, I feel the same way about Hodgkinson. He is no more an "angry Liberal" than anti-abortion terrorists have been Pro-Life activists. He had a history of domestic violence, the hallmark of a person with an anger management issue, and he latched on to politics as a way to play out his clearly ungovernable anger.
5
My fear is that we are going to write this hodgkinson off as a crackpot so as not to give credence to what he believed. My fear is that we'll blame the "tone" of our politics rather than the actual substance of our policies. my fear is that, like Douthat always does, we'll resort to false equivalencies between republicans and democrats.
Take the shooter at his word. The wealthy have too great a share of the wealth that we all create together as a nation. They have too much power and they are abusing it. I do not condone the violence, but their will certainly be more of it unless this great ongoing injustice is addressed. There will be more unemployed middle aged men with nothing to lose and a great deal of resentment.
Take the shooter at his word. The wealthy have too great a share of the wealth that we all create together as a nation. They have too much power and they are abusing it. I do not condone the violence, but their will certainly be more of it unless this great ongoing injustice is addressed. There will be more unemployed middle aged men with nothing to lose and a great deal of resentment.
2
In glad nobody was killed. This shooting wouldn't have made national news if the victims weren't politicos, and if the shooter wasn't a Democrat. Man bites dog, I guess. It's remarkable that incendiary and sensationalist language is being called out now, after Obama was called a tyrant, a secret Muslim, and a foreigner for 8 years by the GOP mainstream. Better late than never.
1
Let's be clear here:
Despite Hodgkinson, for the most part the right has the guns and the left has the majority. Trump's approval rating in the upper 30s correctly reflects where this country stands, Electoral College notwithstanding. Please never forget that Trump lost the Presidency by almost 3 million votes.
We need a new definition of 'traitor' here, as it applies to the United States:
A traitor is somebody who believes that the people in the other party are traitors.
Jeremy Corbyn did not call Theresa May a traitor. Marine Le Pen didn't call Emmanuel Macron a traitor. For the most part, Hodgkinson perhaps excepted, liberals do not call conservatives traitors.
However it is becoming the norm for radical reactionary Republicans to consider Democrats as traitors. The Slavery Caucus is certainly on that path. Until we begin to call out the implacable radicals in both parties as traitors, the march towards conflict will continue.
Please remember something Mr. Douthat:
An unarmed mob can overwhelm a single shooter.
Dan Kravitz
Despite Hodgkinson, for the most part the right has the guns and the left has the majority. Trump's approval rating in the upper 30s correctly reflects where this country stands, Electoral College notwithstanding. Please never forget that Trump lost the Presidency by almost 3 million votes.
We need a new definition of 'traitor' here, as it applies to the United States:
A traitor is somebody who believes that the people in the other party are traitors.
Jeremy Corbyn did not call Theresa May a traitor. Marine Le Pen didn't call Emmanuel Macron a traitor. For the most part, Hodgkinson perhaps excepted, liberals do not call conservatives traitors.
However it is becoming the norm for radical reactionary Republicans to consider Democrats as traitors. The Slavery Caucus is certainly on that path. Until we begin to call out the implacable radicals in both parties as traitors, the march towards conflict will continue.
Please remember something Mr. Douthat:
An unarmed mob can overwhelm a single shooter.
Dan Kravitz
A targeted political assassination by a democratic voting yahoo. Not unusual due to all of the protesting and unprecedented hatred and bullying put out daily by the left.
2
I wish we had more Kathy Griffins. When she made a comic gaffe she apologized.
Gun violence in America? The NRA-GOP "solution" is to sell more guns to more people. Americans are far more likely to be the victim of gun violence than a terrorist attack.
Gun violence in America? The NRA-GOP "solution" is to sell more guns to more people. Americans are far more likely to be the victim of gun violence than a terrorist attack.
2
The shooter was deranged. He had sold his belongings, come to Washington to "protest," and had been living for months in his van and showering at the Y. He had been shooting guns in areas near his home. Proclaiming that he had "normal political beliefs" misses the pertinent facts of a homicidal tragedy.
We have a violent society. Hate speech in all its forms can lead psychopaths to act. I'm sick of all the analysis that argue about whether liberals or conservatives produce more violent extremists. I don't think this column says much of anything.
We have a violent society. Hate speech in all its forms can lead psychopaths to act. I'm sick of all the analysis that argue about whether liberals or conservatives produce more violent extremists. I don't think this column says much of anything.
2
Who put all the guns on the street ? The NRA and the GOP regardless of the fact that the vast majority of the American people favor stricter gun laws
Who seems to believe that it is still 1791 and that everyone should have a musket? Why, the GOP , the NRA ,and the conservative shills on the Supreme Court. Except for the fact that muskets have been replaced by semi-automatic military machine guns that can be converted to full automatic in a trice , we apparently still live in a rural world where it is necessary to hunt for our meals , no supermarkets , and there are roving bands of Native Americans to defend against
Leave the Democrats out of this equation,Mr. Douthat. It is the Republican party ,kowtowing to the NRA,that is solely responsible for the carnage
Who believes that the certifiable mentally unfit should have access to lethal weapons ? Why none other than the NRA and a Republican Congress that recently enacted legislation to that effect.
This , Mr. Douthat , is hardly a bi-partisan effort. The ongoing bloodshed , the murder of innocent school children , and the more than 150 mass shootings ( more than four victims ) in the last six months alone , can be laid directly at the feet of a Republican Congress and an accommodating conservative Supreme Court majority. And now , a person in the Oval Office that also promotes guns galore in a society that ranks at the top when it comes to gunshot homicides amongst all of the countries in the Western Industrial Complex.
Who seems to believe that it is still 1791 and that everyone should have a musket? Why, the GOP , the NRA ,and the conservative shills on the Supreme Court. Except for the fact that muskets have been replaced by semi-automatic military machine guns that can be converted to full automatic in a trice , we apparently still live in a rural world where it is necessary to hunt for our meals , no supermarkets , and there are roving bands of Native Americans to defend against
Leave the Democrats out of this equation,Mr. Douthat. It is the Republican party ,kowtowing to the NRA,that is solely responsible for the carnage
Who believes that the certifiable mentally unfit should have access to lethal weapons ? Why none other than the NRA and a Republican Congress that recently enacted legislation to that effect.
This , Mr. Douthat , is hardly a bi-partisan effort. The ongoing bloodshed , the murder of innocent school children , and the more than 150 mass shootings ( more than four victims ) in the last six months alone , can be laid directly at the feet of a Republican Congress and an accommodating conservative Supreme Court majority. And now , a person in the Oval Office that also promotes guns galore in a society that ranks at the top when it comes to gunshot homicides amongst all of the countries in the Western Industrial Complex.
2
Actually, the Constitution is responsible for gun ownership. The NRA is no more responsible for gun violence than the ACLU is for allowing foreign terrorists to freely enter the US.
1
Part of the issue, I think, is some on the left like Hodgkinson are colossally frustrated by the right's aversion to facts, which generally don't support conservative policies. The GOP is well aware of this, to the extent that Gingrich even said without shame that "feelings are just as valid as facts." Fox News, Breitbart, etc., know this, too, and they provide safe place for conservative information. Under these circumstances, how can we conduct a rational and peaceful public debate?
1
Dear father Ross, remember this, anyone in America can buy a gun. Only one ideology endorses unlimited gun ownership. Jesus would be so proud of our republican party.
1
Douthat seems to have forgotten Timothy McVeigh, republican and NRA advocate who assassinated 168 people in Oaklahoma City. Was he "an ordinary midwestern conservative?"
1
I've had many conversations with myself about the ACA and it's imminent demise. What is the appropriate response to a group that terminates health care for millions of people in order to give money to the rich? I don't know, really. Not all political issues are so grave; most involve only money, or power. Some, like the war decisions, are truly life-and-death. And so is health care.
What do we think is going to happen when a child dies from lack of care? The parents will simply refer to the Laffer curve, and take solace that their offspring gave a life in a noble cause? Seems unlikely. More likely is a murderous rage. If, say, a thousand children die this way, I think we might expect that some of that rage will be played out toward the folks who have applauded themselves for denying health care to millions.
And how can we, in all good conscience, object? How would a jury rule? How strange it is that the victims of all that we collectively visit on various unfortunates don't more often make it known that the penalty for political malfeasance may be very personal, and very severe!
It may be that the victims will simply swallow their pain, as they have for thousands of years. But maybe not. The victim class, in this instance, is very large and very well armed, and not used to being denied life.
What do we think is going to happen when a child dies from lack of care? The parents will simply refer to the Laffer curve, and take solace that their offspring gave a life in a noble cause? Seems unlikely. More likely is a murderous rage. If, say, a thousand children die this way, I think we might expect that some of that rage will be played out toward the folks who have applauded themselves for denying health care to millions.
And how can we, in all good conscience, object? How would a jury rule? How strange it is that the victims of all that we collectively visit on various unfortunates don't more often make it known that the penalty for political malfeasance may be very personal, and very severe!
It may be that the victims will simply swallow their pain, as they have for thousands of years. But maybe not. The victim class, in this instance, is very large and very well armed, and not used to being denied life.
1
Ross,
Forgive me for picking on a single sentence but when you write "... because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other," I wonder what media universe you've inhabited in recent years.
Among the many sins of the MSM is the chronic reporting of false equivalence between left and right. Talking heads debating whether or not Barack Obama was born in Hawaii or whether or not the ACA included death panels or whether or not creationism is a branch of science are infuriating to honest rational people.
Neither side has a monopoly on crazy, but if we intend to report accurately on our problems, a good first step would be to stop sacrificing Truth on the altar of Balance & False Equivalency. I'm looking at you, Ross.
Forgive me for picking on a single sentence but when you write "... because our centrist elites are actually center-left there is a constant, involuntary tug toward emphasizing what’s wrong on the right-wing side of the spectrum and excusing what’s wrong on the other," I wonder what media universe you've inhabited in recent years.
Among the many sins of the MSM is the chronic reporting of false equivalence between left and right. Talking heads debating whether or not Barack Obama was born in Hawaii or whether or not the ACA included death panels or whether or not creationism is a branch of science are infuriating to honest rational people.
Neither side has a monopoly on crazy, but if we intend to report accurately on our problems, a good first step would be to stop sacrificing Truth on the altar of Balance & False Equivalency. I'm looking at you, Ross.
2
GOP health care legislation being shepherded by Steve Scalise necessarily mean tens of thousands will die before their time, from lack of insurance. Where is the concern for them? Scalise, where is your concern for them? I don't see it.
I'm not saying Scalise deserved to be shot. Not at all. But he and his colleagues need to wake up and recognize their humanity is no less than the humanity of many, many Americans, whom the GOP is shooting at right this very moment.
I'm not saying Scalise deserved to be shot. Not at all. But he and his colleagues need to wake up and recognize their humanity is no less than the humanity of many, many Americans, whom the GOP is shooting at right this very moment.
2
Finally somebody remembers history! The notion that the left is as prone to violence as the right is not a partisan statement. It's a fact. I won't count (again) the dead of Communism whose number is higher than the dead of fascism. But throughout the last century, terrorism mostly came from the left: anarchists, Baader-Meinhof gang in Germany, the Red Brigades in Italy, various far-left groups in Japan...In the 1950s and 60s, much of the American left knew what was going on in the USSR but remained silent or even tried to shut up testimonies of survivors. Everybody here remembers Senator McCarthy with his anti-Communist witch hunt but who remembers (or wants to remember) the real witch-hunt that was going on in the same time in Communist Russia, with people being tortured and killed rather than black-listed? Or how about the unrelenting violence in Venezuela right now? The choice between the radical right and radical left is the choice of the caliber of the bullet that will end your life.
1
But where did he get the gun?
1
What do I believe? Liberals include some pretty nasty people but, for some reason, they are mostly individuals with nasty ideas; they lack any consistent national platform from which to spread their venom.
Republicans, through cable T.V., the Internet, conservative religious broadcasting, syndicated loudmouths like Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly have spread hatred and distrust of government, even wishing to "reduce it to a size that could be drowned in a bathtub."
The hatred and vitriol aimed at Barack Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats for the last eight years drew no protest from Douthat. Even Donald Trump's outrageous attacks on Hillary Clinton, his incitement to violence at his rallies, his self-serving lies, passed without your protest. Only now that a deranged "Democrat" (there is no evidence that he was a card carrying member of any party) has shot up a Republican baseball practice are you willing to backhandedly acknowledge those Republican "indiscretions," and only as a preface to your accusations of Left-wing sins.
Tell me Mr. Douthat why my Inbox is flooded with malicious and most false stories about prominent Democrats while the only thing I'm getting from Democrats is appeals for money?
Republicans, through cable T.V., the Internet, conservative religious broadcasting, syndicated loudmouths like Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly have spread hatred and distrust of government, even wishing to "reduce it to a size that could be drowned in a bathtub."
The hatred and vitriol aimed at Barack Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats for the last eight years drew no protest from Douthat. Even Donald Trump's outrageous attacks on Hillary Clinton, his incitement to violence at his rallies, his self-serving lies, passed without your protest. Only now that a deranged "Democrat" (there is no evidence that he was a card carrying member of any party) has shot up a Republican baseball practice are you willing to backhandedly acknowledge those Republican "indiscretions," and only as a preface to your accusations of Left-wing sins.
Tell me Mr. Douthat why my Inbox is flooded with malicious and most false stories about prominent Democrats while the only thing I'm getting from Democrats is appeals for money?
4
What makes Douthat's column worth reading not only is his different take on things but the remarkable commentary it attracts. Only 58 comments so far and I have read several comments that justify shooting Republicans because it's only fair after all: their attempts to roll back the welfare state to levels that still would have been beyond the wildest dreams of liberals a generation ago is "violence against the poor." Keep writing your columns and hanging up that flypaper, Ross!
1
Douthat, you state; "Part of what could go wrong today is evident in the way that violence in the left-wing core, the university campus, gets met with excuse making, appeasement and halfhearted punishment from liberal authorities."
A year and a half of presidential campaigning, two months as president elect and five months as president, House Speaker Paul Ryan defended donald's most recent atrocious, disgusting behavior as "just being new to the presidency and not used to way things are done in Washington".
Talk about making excuses. Just as climate change could possibly threaten life so to, the rising temperature in the political arena can cause stress and anger resulting in life threatening situations.
A year and a half of presidential campaigning, two months as president elect and five months as president, House Speaker Paul Ryan defended donald's most recent atrocious, disgusting behavior as "just being new to the presidency and not used to way things are done in Washington".
Talk about making excuses. Just as climate change could possibly threaten life so to, the rising temperature in the political arena can cause stress and anger resulting in life threatening situations.
73
Interesting that Father Douthat fails to mention (y)our president's plea to "second amendment people" to solve the problem of Hillary Clinton.
"If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks," Trump said. "Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is. I don't know."
Candidate Donald Trump
August 9 2016
NOT my president
"If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks," Trump said. "Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is. I don't know."
Candidate Donald Trump
August 9 2016
NOT my president
7
I admire the passion James Hodgkinson apparently felt about economic inequality. I also share what might be his frustration in finding a dead end when searching for a realistic path to reform. During the presidential campaign, Senator Sanders spoke eloquently about wealth inequality but his socialist solutions lacked imagination and promise. In recent years, Hodgkinson had traveled far to promote Wall St. as a scapegoat and eventually found it easier to lump all Republicans and their misguided tax reforms as the larger enemy. His apparent disrespect for the right to life and his mental instability with respect to guns pushed him further onto a reckless and lonely path of indiscriminate and misguided vengeance. I wish I could have told Mr. Hodgkinson that reforms were possible. Unfortunately, partisan polarization deliberately keeps most reforms away from public discussion.
The real evil is partisan pressure that compels members to abandon their conscience. There are Democrats who know abortion is wrong just as there are Republicans who know elimination of the Estate Tax is promotes inequality for no good reason. The extreme partisan positions so dominate that a gang of 10, or 6, or even 4 can no longer vote their conscience and pass or oppose legislation by compromising the other side. We can’t keep the good and avoid every kind of evil if we are blinded by left and right.
Let's debate gun insurance, inverse taxation of wealth and income, payroll tax replacment, etc.
The real evil is partisan pressure that compels members to abandon their conscience. There are Democrats who know abortion is wrong just as there are Republicans who know elimination of the Estate Tax is promotes inequality for no good reason. The extreme partisan positions so dominate that a gang of 10, or 6, or even 4 can no longer vote their conscience and pass or oppose legislation by compromising the other side. We can’t keep the good and avoid every kind of evil if we are blinded by left and right.
Let's debate gun insurance, inverse taxation of wealth and income, payroll tax replacment, etc.
1
Nobody deserves to get shot! Period.
But come on Republicans, NRA, so called 2nd Amendment protectors. You didn't see this coming? And my guess is you'll see more unless we wake up. The majority of NRA members advocate some common sense gun controls. But the NRA owned Republicans own this problem.
But come on Republicans, NRA, so called 2nd Amendment protectors. You didn't see this coming? And my guess is you'll see more unless we wake up. The majority of NRA members advocate some common sense gun controls. But the NRA owned Republicans own this problem.
7
For those in the comments section calling for action on second amendment rights, try a little bit of a logic test. If we applied your belief that a person who exercised his second amendment rights illegally to the first amendment, we'd have to stop innocent progressives from expressing themselves because a single progressive acted illegally. Sound like something we want to do? There is no doubt that this shooter was a progressive and subscribed to progressive ideology and policies, was not insane like Loughner, chose Republicans purposefully to attack, and in all this acted illegally. And yet we are told "don't reach any conclusions about "progressives" based on this guy." But as to his use of a gun, well we can. In other words take away the rights of innocent, law abiding people, because of a Progressive who acted illegally. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say it's a clever strategy. But I am not. I am simply tired of the hypocrisy in this country well outlined and gently analyzed by the author in the op-ed. We talk a lot about "normalizing" these days. Well, the media and academia have done quite bit of "normalizing" recently.
2
The shooter had a criminal background. He abused his wife and daughter. He should not have been able to legally buy a gun, let alone a weapon of war. One party has fought incessantly to prevent background checks while taking every nickel and dime the NRA offers. And I say this as a progressive liberal.
One other thing. Malcolm was excoriated for saying the chickens had come home to roost after JFK was shot. That phrase was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard Republicans had been targeted.
One other thing. Malcolm was excoriated for saying the chickens had come home to roost after JFK was shot. That phrase was the first thing that came to my mind when I heard Republicans had been targeted.
I do not hear the same call you do. I grew up with guns and what I hear is "rational gun laws" NOT "take all guns". Our hearing is even "different". Listen to the middle of America, we have always been practical and willing to compromise. The noisy blow hearts on either side are perverting this country. * By the way it appears the shooter had a domestic violence history, never a carillon call to rational behavior.
What seems repeatedly to be getting lost in all this is that it is not just Donald Trump. Every bit as much, it is Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, whose lying is more culpable even than The Donald's because they are not pathological narcissists -- they know exactly what they are doing, and they are doing it with absolute cynicism. It is Rush Limbaugh and Fox News. Trump is simply the most visible outcropping of a deadly heap of booby traps, intended to confuse and disorient the public and make good-faith debate and democratic governance impossible.
And no, the Democrats, and the Left in general, do not do it at an equivalent level, and anybody who is reasonably aware and intellectually honest, knows that perfectly well.
And no, the Democrats, and the Left in general, do not do it at an equivalent level, and anybody who is reasonably aware and intellectually honest, knows that perfectly well.
6
Despite most statistics telling you otherwise, you cling to your partisanship. No, the left is just as bad, maybe worse because they are given cover by the media, the universities. Please, embrace, not just the spirit of this article, but nitty gritty.
1
A mass shooting on a baseball field - I fail to see what commentators from both sides find so fascinating about it. It happens every day, somewhere. And whilst it seems that in this case the shooter was an 'ordinary' Democrat (with a history of domestic violence, as I read somewhere without fact checking), I can't help but ask: so what? Exactly one year ago a young Labour politician, mother of small children, was violently murdered by an ordinary Tory voter. Are we even yet?
Of course for the political class this has hit far too close to home. They stand in unity because they are fully aware that next time it could be one of them - from either side of the aisle. And I hate to admit it, but I think that it serves them right. That they should all know what it feels like to be a constant possible target, anytime, anywhere.
Unfortunately this won't change anything, not in politics, not in daily life. So maybe we can now all move on from a personal tragedy in Alexandria to the much more severe tragedy of American politics in D.C.
Of course for the political class this has hit far too close to home. They stand in unity because they are fully aware that next time it could be one of them - from either side of the aisle. And I hate to admit it, but I think that it serves them right. That they should all know what it feels like to be a constant possible target, anytime, anywhere.
Unfortunately this won't change anything, not in politics, not in daily life. So maybe we can now all move on from a personal tragedy in Alexandria to the much more severe tragedy of American politics in D.C.
7
Thanks for the urging to say what I believe Ross. When it comes to numerous events in American History Ross simply has absolutely no clue. In today's column he disingenuously attempts to portray certain acts of violence as ideological, rather than what they really are at their dispositive core, acts of violence by isolated, alienated, individuals. Ross Douthat spews facile, Right Wing nonsense and by factual omissions indicates his ignorance. "Part of went wrong in America in the late sixties was that the liberal establishment... protected it's far left children's rage" What an absolutely ludicrous assertion. The massive demonstrations and anti-war protests were what was RIGHT with America ! The "children's rage" was absolutely spot on, in protesting the obscene and pointless carnage of the war in Vietnam and the endemic racism which permeated the U.S.
6
With the Republicans, it is always the Dems fault.
How often did we hear the Republicans fault Obama for the "decline" in race relations during his presidency? I heard it a lot. And it was ridiculous. Oh, unless you consider the election of a black president and the resulting backlash from racist whites to be the Dems' fault.
The Republicans push push push the envelope on truth and decency, and as the blowback starts to hit they retreat, but only tactically, and then they are out there pushing again. All of the Republican pleas in recent days for a return to comity in politics is nothing more than a tactical retreat because of blowback from their provocative strategies.
How often did we hear the Republicans fault Obama for the "decline" in race relations during his presidency? I heard it a lot. And it was ridiculous. Oh, unless you consider the election of a black president and the resulting backlash from racist whites to be the Dems' fault.
The Republicans push push push the envelope on truth and decency, and as the blowback starts to hit they retreat, but only tactically, and then they are out there pushing again. All of the Republican pleas in recent days for a return to comity in politics is nothing more than a tactical retreat because of blowback from their provocative strategies.
6
Pure Douthat false equivalency nonsense. One data point does not make a trend. The Virginia shooter is literally one data point not connected to any other similar crimes. Right-wing militia have killed far more in terrorist acts (and that's after NOT counting recent mass murders like by Dylan Roof in killing black churchgoers to try and start a race war or Robert Dear killing people at Planned Parethood after Republican Presidential candidates like Fiorina, Huckabee and Santorum accused Planned Parenthood of murdering babies - because the threshold for calling white mass muderers terrorist is much higher than for brown or black especially Muslim mass murderers) than American Muslim jihadists over last 30 years. There are no left-wing militia or terrorist groups in America. Trump has openly called for violence against protesters and for Second Amendment solutions against Hillary - no Democratic Presdient or Presidential candidate has done so. The right does not have a monopoly on violence from from its fringe, but it has a far bigger problem than the left - it's not close.
7
Insightful, measured commentary, Mr. Douthat. Maybe your employer can add to your voice by withdrawing support for a public display that daily features Trumps' assassination?
1
The most important take away from this event is that it was a normal shooting. A deadlier shooting took place in California on the same day. Sure, the Alexandria, Va shooting upsets the GOP political class much more than a "normal" shooting, but is it really any different? I don't think so.
5
This shooter is not the only angry individual out there. Many of us are angered by the Congress who now only do the bidding of the wealthy and do so out of the public eye.
Health care and income disparity lead the charge. Congress simply ignores the obvious which leaves at least fifty percent of the population without representation.
We can't fix our roads and bridges, water systems are failing and the politicians don't care. We don't have the money for child care, but we can give the Pentagon another 50 billion to waste in the sixteen year debacle which is Afghanistan. Climate change is real, but try telling that to a Republican. According to another article in this paper, we are spending some 6.3 million dollars per prisoner in Guantanamo rather than house them in a prison here or release them to another country.
Yes, we are angry, but we must resolve our grievances at the ballot box and not with a box of bullets.
Health care and income disparity lead the charge. Congress simply ignores the obvious which leaves at least fifty percent of the population without representation.
We can't fix our roads and bridges, water systems are failing and the politicians don't care. We don't have the money for child care, but we can give the Pentagon another 50 billion to waste in the sixteen year debacle which is Afghanistan. Climate change is real, but try telling that to a Republican. According to another article in this paper, we are spending some 6.3 million dollars per prisoner in Guantanamo rather than house them in a prison here or release them to another country.
Yes, we are angry, but we must resolve our grievances at the ballot box and not with a box of bullets.
5
Ross, one thing you've overlooked that makes 2017 different from 1968, is the proliferation of guns and their use to "solve" problems. This, when heaped upon the inescapable heated rhetoric of today's media, changes the entire dynamic. This is a far more dangerous time. Leaders need to step up and work together, rather than continue to throw more fuel on the fire. I wish I could say that I'm optimistic.
3
"Part of what went wrong in America in the later ’60s was that the liberal establishment carried water for, protected or excused its far-left children’s rage. "
Really. THAT'S your takeaway. No one in the "liberal establishment" condones or encourages violence in this day and age; the vast majority of Democrats who DID encourage violence were Southern segregationists.
While there is irony in that attempted the "second amendment solution" to our polity was applied by one on the left towards a conservative politician, it is only politicians on ONE side of the political spectrum that has justified violent uprising against a "tyrannical government". Among presidential candidates, its wasn't Bernie Sanders who tweeted that the second amendment was so people could shoot at the government. It was a Republican candidate, Rand Paul.
Really. THAT'S your takeaway. No one in the "liberal establishment" condones or encourages violence in this day and age; the vast majority of Democrats who DID encourage violence were Southern segregationists.
While there is irony in that attempted the "second amendment solution" to our polity was applied by one on the left towards a conservative politician, it is only politicians on ONE side of the political spectrum that has justified violent uprising against a "tyrannical government". Among presidential candidates, its wasn't Bernie Sanders who tweeted that the second amendment was so people could shoot at the government. It was a Republican candidate, Rand Paul.
8
Drouhat gets it right here. Back in the 1960s, the liberal establishment--some of it anyhow--was awfully complicit in left-wing radicalism. Example: read David Talbot's brilliant Season of the Witch to see how the San Francisco establishment, from Willie Brown to George Moscone to, of all people, Harvey Milk, carried water for Jim Jones and his People's Temple "socialist" scam in the two or three years before the Jonestown massacre. Historical parallels are never exact, but they should give us pause. A knee-jerk rejection of Drouhat's argument is nothing less than evidence for his main point.
I am a Realist. So I keep coming back to our presidential campaign and election. To begin with the so called Political elite and the media insisted the Democrats running Hillary Clinton against Jeb Bush she was a shoe in. Steady as she goes was the mantra just mimic Obama's rhetoric of Hope and Change. Then of course Bernie Sanders became an irritant to Clinton and he wasn't a Democrat, but he wouldn't matter in the end. One by one all GOP elite were eliminated by Trump. Obvious an alarm bell should have gone of but again the Democrats CNN, The NYT, and The Washington Post wrote him off as a wing nut with dumb uneducated white people as his misguided followers. Point being A Socialist is popular, and a President had and still doesn't have any support from the GOP base. Either side Sanders and certainly Trump show a highly polarized country and fuel for the fire for wing nuts many mention in this article. So here we are with the media and the left planning impeachment, or forcing the President to resign for obstruction of justice and exercising dysfunction to stave off anything getting done for 3.5 years until everyone comes to their senses and elects a Obama replacement. Point is millions are baited everyday by the media encouraging millions to become more polarized. Being called a deplorable has stuck as we are not all dumb white uneducated folks who detest the Social Democratic Welfare State Model the left cannot make function. History is full of these schemes.
2
"...we are not all dumb white uneducated folks ...."
Maybe not. But ANYONE who is not profoundly repelled and alarmed by the depth of Trump's toxic unfitness is either not honest, or deficient in some basic cognitive functions.
Maybe not. But ANYONE who is not profoundly repelled and alarmed by the depth of Trump's toxic unfitness is either not honest, or deficient in some basic cognitive functions.
There are dozens of neo Nazi and white supremacists
groups in the US particularly after Mr. Obama's election.
So called " conservatives" have gunned down
doctors on their way to work.at family planning clinics. But no one politicized
these events. Suddenly now when a republican
is shot, the issue becomes a political football.
We are a country awash in murderous weapons:
In a free society, you don't have to fear going to a
mall or school or moviehouse and now baseball field.
We are all terrorized in our own country.
groups in the US particularly after Mr. Obama's election.
So called " conservatives" have gunned down
doctors on their way to work.at family planning clinics. But no one politicized
these events. Suddenly now when a republican
is shot, the issue becomes a political football.
We are a country awash in murderous weapons:
In a free society, you don't have to fear going to a
mall or school or moviehouse and now baseball field.
We are all terrorized in our own country.
5
You made the comment that the media is center left. Take off your blinders. All of talk radio all of FOXNews much of the Internet and God knows how many think tanks are all far a field in the wilds of the right. Yes the three networks me the center left but they make a small percentage of the media in total
2
Representative Scalise and others were shot by an American citizen. The shooter was Caucasian and exhibited signs of mental illness. Yes, he was a Democrat as well. He was also a male.
The one irrefutable aspect to this senseless shooting was his ability to obtain firearms. This we know for sure.
Whether he was provoked by political rhetoric, left wing humor, a malicious Trumpian environment or watching too many violent cartoons might explain the event but not a pattern of so many mass shootings in the US.
The one irrefutable aspect to this senseless shooting was his ability to obtain firearms. This we know for sure.
Whether he was provoked by political rhetoric, left wing humor, a malicious Trumpian environment or watching too many violent cartoons might explain the event but not a pattern of so many mass shootings in the US.
3
Ross is a respected Journalist. What never ceases to amaze me however , is the reality exist, the Media and either coast enclaves of the USA don't understand how millions and millions of America see themselves and their beliefs. If one travels the country, what you see can be disheartening , and what you hear isn't as we are lead to believe we should act, or what we should support politically .It is not a pretty picture. Eight years of condescending Rhetoric by an intellect like Obama didn't go down well no matter how rational or well meaning. The Democrats couldn't have made a worse choice with Clinton as the replacement in waiting.
2
How sad, and despicable, that Douthat cannot resist trying to make partisan points based on this tragedy.
5
I just finished reading the article in the Times about the shooter's background and domestic life. He was not normal.
Untreated mental illness, sociopathy, and abusive behaviour, building to unhinged rage, and facilitated by access to guns. There is your would be assassin.
Untreated mental illness, sociopathy, and abusive behaviour, building to unhinged rage, and facilitated by access to guns. There is your would be assassin.
7
Let's not forget who began all this demonizing of "the Other"--or at least got it accepted as a political strategy, and a shamefully successful one: Newt Gingrich. Democrats were ipso facto vile, anti-American, etc. The right has been spoon-fed this dangerous, divisive point of view for over 30 years. Voting for a Democratic candidate in such an environment is tantamount to being a traitor to your country. All of President Obama's too-long held efforts at bipartisanship were met with unyielding rejection. Compromise, the essential ingredient in the democratic process, was labeled as "abandoning your principles." (On the left, it led to 3rd party candidates that helped tip elections to Republicans.) This was dangerous nonsense, breaking our political system. Eventually, the left began to accept the demonstrated reality that anything proposed by a Democrat was going to be opposed. When you are branded "the Enemy" and treated as such, your opponents have become your Enemy. How do we get out of this vicious cycle? I have no idea.
7
The "who started it" argument? Seriously? Okay, then I suggest you go back a little farther — to Ted Kennedy's "Borking" of a highly qualified Supreme Court nominee. Talk about demonization. It was epitome.
Newt Gingrich turned me into a democrat/independent forever. Before him I voted for Bush Senior and many other great good republicans, since Newt the sensible republicans are not around and it is a party of vile hate as you state turning "others" into the enemy. Great post.
1
Thanks! I wondered when all this--WE have to be more civil stuff--would be , let's say, mitigated, by a few facts.
This editorial is an introspective look at the polarization in our society and would earn an A+ in any college level political science class. But no amount of esoteric examination of left and right will ever make us safer from people with a lot of anger and access to firearms our founding fathers never dreamed of. We do need to have serious discussions on the 2 Amendment, and gun laws on the books. Consider this example, everywhere its illegal to possess a sawed off shotgun, and hardly anyone argues with that. Yet its okay in many places to possess and carry around semi-auto, extremely rapid fire, high velocity rifles, meant for the military. As long as we condone ridiculously easy access, anyone is a potential target of a mass killer.
2
The media is now everybody with an internet connection; it is not center left.
6
Sorry, Douthat, but "hating Donald Trump" and being a "Bernie Sanders supporter" are not surprisingly "normal ".
Hating anyone ( except our enemies during wartime) is not normal, and being an American supporter of the Marxist Sanders is not normal. It's extreme.
Hating anyone ( except our enemies during wartime) is not normal, and being an American supporter of the Marxist Sanders is not normal. It's extreme.
1
DID I miss something ? Bernie Sanders just became a Marxist last night?
What is extreme about any of Sanders positions? He is an F D R Democrat. And not extreme.
Compare the political discourse among major political parties here and In Europe and you realize our pathological partisanship. We have forgotten the rules of civil and productive discourse. In order to win politicians sometimes have to fight. Our political process however seems all about winning, fighting and destroying your political opponent. Governing now seems to be undoing what your opponent achieved and then rub it into their face! Democracy thrives with and through political differences, but we all share the same values. That is not the case anymore in the US. And I politely disagree with you Ross about who is to blame.
Just look how much the GOP has left Ronald Reagan in the dust. He passed an immigration reform with amnesty, and he actually increased taxes. Why the Republicans still want to canonize him remains a mystery. Just look at Europe, the mainstream parties differ gradually in their political platforms: the debates on abortion, gun control, health insurance, climate policies, gay marriage, death penalty, tax rates and welfare programs have been decided.There is a threat from the national right, but a consensus among democratic parties to push back and address concerns in order to bring back voters to the mainstream.
Not so in the US: Republicans and right wing news organizations thrive on political extremism, they feed the beast. Trump, with all his vulgarity and ignorance embodies the Republican Party.
Just look how much the GOP has left Ronald Reagan in the dust. He passed an immigration reform with amnesty, and he actually increased taxes. Why the Republicans still want to canonize him remains a mystery. Just look at Europe, the mainstream parties differ gradually in their political platforms: the debates on abortion, gun control, health insurance, climate policies, gay marriage, death penalty, tax rates and welfare programs have been decided.There is a threat from the national right, but a consensus among democratic parties to push back and address concerns in order to bring back voters to the mainstream.
Not so in the US: Republicans and right wing news organizations thrive on political extremism, they feed the beast. Trump, with all his vulgarity and ignorance embodies the Republican Party.
4
"By the way, and if she gets to pick --if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know." - President of the United States Donald Trump
"You know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies” - Sharron Angle, GOP candidate for Senate, Nevada
“I live with some Senators, I yell at them all the time, I grabbed one of them the other day and shook him and I’d love to get them to vote for it — boy I’d love that. You know but other than me going over there with a gun and holding it to their head and maybe killing a couple of them, I don’t think they’re going to listen unless they get beat.” - John Sullivan, former Oklahoma US Representative.
It's not the politicians and pundits on the left who are stirring up the hornets nest of "Second Amendment remedies". The GOP practices social, economic, rhetorical and physical violence on those who oppose them or who are not part of their club. There's a lot of false equivalency in this article, no matter how despicable the act of this lone gunman was.
"You know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies” - Sharron Angle, GOP candidate for Senate, Nevada
“I live with some Senators, I yell at them all the time, I grabbed one of them the other day and shook him and I’d love to get them to vote for it — boy I’d love that. You know but other than me going over there with a gun and holding it to their head and maybe killing a couple of them, I don’t think they’re going to listen unless they get beat.” - John Sullivan, former Oklahoma US Representative.
It's not the politicians and pundits on the left who are stirring up the hornets nest of "Second Amendment remedies". The GOP practices social, economic, rhetorical and physical violence on those who oppose them or who are not part of their club. There's a lot of false equivalency in this article, no matter how despicable the act of this lone gunman was.
6
There are no democratic progressive groups that dress up in fatigues and play war on weekends in militas filled with men and women who never served. Those people are the passionate Trump supporters who he spoke to about 2nd amendment remedies. No one needs an AR-15.
6
One of the differences between the political anger of the 60s and the political anger now is that in the 60s we were not awash in guns. A second difference is that we did not have 24/7 hate radio. I would suggest that both of these differences were brought about by the Republican Party and their supporters.
4
To attempt to strike some balance in denouncing the Sean Hannity Conservatives' excesses, was Kathy Griffin the worse example of Liberal excess that you could find Mr. Douthat?
Contrasting Griffin to Hannity is pathetic. Griffin is merely an edgy Liberal-leaning comedian; Hannity is pure vile right-wing Conservatives' hatred. There is no example of Liberals' hatred that compares with the deep bench of personalities spewing right-wing Conservatives' hatred. Full Stop.
Contrasting Griffin to Hannity is pathetic. Griffin is merely an edgy Liberal-leaning comedian; Hannity is pure vile right-wing Conservatives' hatred. There is no example of Liberals' hatred that compares with the deep bench of personalities spewing right-wing Conservatives' hatred. Full Stop.
7
While ignoring the obvious problem of high-powered semi-automatic weapons in the hands of the mentally ill (NOT a mainstream Democrat), saying "what went wrong" in the 60's was liberal rage is absurd. What went "wrong" was an unjust war and ongoing tolerance for institutional racism and sexism and homophobia. Ah, for the good old days when we White males didn't have to be annoyed by the less fortunate asking for justice.
1
"Eliminationism." Read "Hitler's Willing Executioners" which posits that ordinary Germans not only knew about, but also supported, the Holocaust because of a unique and virulent "eliminationist antisemitism" in the German identity, which had developed in the preceding centuries.
Left to be fed unceasingly, this will be the rhetoric that prevails. We are on a terrible glidepath from Lee Atwater to present.
Left to be fed unceasingly, this will be the rhetoric that prevails. We are on a terrible glidepath from Lee Atwater to present.
1
The statistical chance that a sane "liberal" will buy and use an assault weapon to attack people with whom he disagrees is now 1 out of about 160,000,000 Americans and that is based on the questionable assumption that James Hodgkinson was sane at the time of his death.
On the other side of the political spectrum it is estimated that more than 500 right wing militia groups exist in the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_organizations_in_the_United_States
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and wounded 684 in Oklahoma. Others have used armed force to threaten the lives of Federal employees in "occupations and standoffs" Nevada and Oregon. Attempts to reduce the carnage from gun violence by enactment and enforcement of sensible gun control laws in our country has been blocked by the right wing of the political spectrum.
While only a small number of gun deaths are politically motivated, stoked by faux news and "AM hate radio" inspired anger, right wing political violence against "others" is not rare. The AHCA, hatched in secret, will deprive an estimated 12,000,000 to 24,000,000 of healthcare and directly cause thousands of Americans to die before their time.
On the other side of the political spectrum it is estimated that more than 500 right wing militia groups exist in the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_organizations_in_the_United_States
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and wounded 684 in Oklahoma. Others have used armed force to threaten the lives of Federal employees in "occupations and standoffs" Nevada and Oregon. Attempts to reduce the carnage from gun violence by enactment and enforcement of sensible gun control laws in our country has been blocked by the right wing of the political spectrum.
While only a small number of gun deaths are politically motivated, stoked by faux news and "AM hate radio" inspired anger, right wing political violence against "others" is not rare. The AHCA, hatched in secret, will deprive an estimated 12,000,000 to 24,000,000 of healthcare and directly cause thousands of Americans to die before their time.
6
"Say what you believe."
I agree wholeheartedly. Saying what you think, knowing that at least some will read or listen to you, maybe even a few will express agreement with you, can make one feel less isolated, less irrelevant, less incapable of affecting the course of one's life and one's country. It can even have a real affect on policy in a democracy, too, if enough people say what they believe. Particularly when we also vote what we believe.
It is too early to tell exactly what caused this shooter to do what he did, but it seems clear that rage was a factor. Perhaps even a flare of hatred.
Hate speech, violent speech infects us all, no matter who says it or where it comes from. The American people are in need of an intervention, a ratcheting down of anger and despite, a reaquaintance with the goodness of the people around us who don't agree with us on political issues. We need to reevaluate the priorities in our personal lives. Political action and involvement matters, causes matter. But not as much as the people who we fight those political battles for. How we treat and connect with other people in our daily lives matters too.
Love, respect, kindness, compassion, good will - if these are lacking in our lives, no amount of political activism will bring about the changes in our country that we seek.
I agree wholeheartedly. Saying what you think, knowing that at least some will read or listen to you, maybe even a few will express agreement with you, can make one feel less isolated, less irrelevant, less incapable of affecting the course of one's life and one's country. It can even have a real affect on policy in a democracy, too, if enough people say what they believe. Particularly when we also vote what we believe.
It is too early to tell exactly what caused this shooter to do what he did, but it seems clear that rage was a factor. Perhaps even a flare of hatred.
Hate speech, violent speech infects us all, no matter who says it or where it comes from. The American people are in need of an intervention, a ratcheting down of anger and despite, a reaquaintance with the goodness of the people around us who don't agree with us on political issues. We need to reevaluate the priorities in our personal lives. Political action and involvement matters, causes matter. But not as much as the people who we fight those political battles for. How we treat and connect with other people in our daily lives matters too.
Love, respect, kindness, compassion, good will - if these are lacking in our lives, no amount of political activism will bring about the changes in our country that we seek.
1
Obviously, Mr. Douthat did not read today`s NYT column - "Before the Gunfire in Virginia, a Volatile Home Life in Illinois"
"...One of James T. Hodgkinson’s foster daughters killed herself in a gruesome fashion: by dousing herself with gasoline and setting herself on fire. Another described herself as “more of a hindrance than a daughter.” And when Mr. Hodgkinson dragged his grandniece by her hair and tried to choke her, the police were called in, and he was charged with battery. In previously sealed court papers obtained by the local newspaper, she described him as an abusive alcoholic who hit her repeatedly."..."But here in Belleville, a quaint little city where flags fly on Main Street and the movie theater marquee is set off in lights, Mr. Hodgkinson, 66... was known to some friends and neighbors as a volatile figure."...“Is it shocking?” asked Doug Knepper, whose son is married to one of Mr. Hodgkinson’s foster daughters. “No, because the man did not seem 100 percent stable to me.”..
"When Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control group, analyzed F.B.I. data on mass shootings from 2009 to 2015, it found that 57 percent of the cases included a spouse, former spouse or other family member among the victims — and that 16 percent of the attackers had previously been charged with domestic violence."
"...One of James T. Hodgkinson’s foster daughters killed herself in a gruesome fashion: by dousing herself with gasoline and setting herself on fire. Another described herself as “more of a hindrance than a daughter.” And when Mr. Hodgkinson dragged his grandniece by her hair and tried to choke her, the police were called in, and he was charged with battery. In previously sealed court papers obtained by the local newspaper, she described him as an abusive alcoholic who hit her repeatedly."..."But here in Belleville, a quaint little city where flags fly on Main Street and the movie theater marquee is set off in lights, Mr. Hodgkinson, 66... was known to some friends and neighbors as a volatile figure."...“Is it shocking?” asked Doug Knepper, whose son is married to one of Mr. Hodgkinson’s foster daughters. “No, because the man did not seem 100 percent stable to me.”..
"When Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control group, analyzed F.B.I. data on mass shootings from 2009 to 2015, it found that 57 percent of the cases included a spouse, former spouse or other family member among the victims — and that 16 percent of the attackers had previously been charged with domestic violence."
2
When "The Resistance" began feeding this volatile figure its collective hate, a true monster was born. And as the left continues to spew its venom, he will not be the last. The left is officially out of control.
I in no way condone what that man did or Kathy Griffin's disgusting stunt, but I know that, as a moderate Democrat (who voted for Charlie Baker, Republican, as well as Williams Weld, for governor), I feel very beaten up by the right wing in this country. The GOP and the right wing, via its media, has become a bunch of bullies, and bullying has very detrimental effects on people. Gingrich, Atwater, DeLay, Rove, et al, really set our political discourse on fire by ratcheting up the rhetoric to a level of warfare against Democrats and liberals which has been shocking and suffocating. The left simply does not have the right wing media of an Alex Jones, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, et al. The witch hunt of Bill Clinton was not about defending the Constitution but about undoing a legal election while also harassing and tormenting another person, purely out or rage and a need for political warfare. The left, for a long time, I think, and still doesn't know how to respond to it. FOX came in and contaminated American journalism with its, first-ever in America, overt propaganda and anti-one-side mission. Democrats have been on the defensive, after years I think of being stunned by the Trump-like "new kind of" politics, which is a nice way of saying, "uncivilized political warfare." The right wing is comfortable in that environment, but the left is not.
When the victim of an abuser finally, after years of abuse, fights back, is that person really the culprit?
When the victim of an abuser finally, after years of abuse, fights back, is that person really the culprit?
3
A more ominous warning is that Dylan Roof's White Nationalist motivation is now "surprisingly normal." But of course, his action was not terrorism. Just ask Steve Bannon and Sebastian Gorka, noted experts on the subject.
2
Home of The Brave! Land of the Free! I used to believe that and perhaps at one time it was true. What kind of country is free when you cannot go about your business without the fear that, in what should be the most benign of places, you may be shot to death by someone, who legally owns a gun, for no apparent reason. That is a strange kind of freedom. Indeed it could be described as the very opposite. Is it instead not a form of tyranny, a concept which the most strident supporters of gun rights espouse? The tyranny of the gun and the NRA. And where is the bravery? Where are the principled politicians who should be standing up against the NRA? Who should insist on a proper interpretation of the Second Amendment which mentions something about a well regulated militia. The apparent indifference to those deaths among so many, the casual acceptance that they are simply collateral damage for a purported 'right' is truly disturbing. And Mr. Douthat wants to wrap it all up in false equivalence. The problem is the GOP and its support for the NRA's policies which are really a form of madness.
I support everyone's right to their own opinion. I do not support their "right" to terrorize those who hold opposite or conflicting opinions with guns. The Congressman still in serious condition after multiple surgeries had a right to practice baseball, for Pete's sake, without fearing some crazed zealot with an assault weapon would try to take him out. Stop conflating things, Ross. It's not that Americans have different opinions. It's that the NRA has insisted that sensible gun regulations are somehow "UnAmerican." And Congress has let the NRA get away with it.
2
The Scalise shooting is the result of the toxic atmosphere created by "The Resistance" — which includes shouting down, cursing, vandalizing, rioting, beheading (think Kathy Griffin) and slaughtering (think Shakespeare in the Park) anything Trump since the day the he was elected. So no, Mr. Douthat, Hodgkinson's political beliefs are not normal. Because hating isn't normal. And yet the left has learned nothing, as you've clearly demonstrated in this column. The blowback against Democrats in 2018 will be devastating.
1
My interpretation of the shooting is that a obviously unstable man was able to legally purchase guns and use them to cause mayhem. He was legally allowed to do this by the Republican Congress. In addition, he disagreed vehemently to what the Republicans and the Trump Administration is doing to our country, our allies and in particular to those in less fortunate circumstances.
So, I am guessing, that this lone gunman thought by attacking those in the Republican Congress was the only way he could stop their insane policies from becoming law.
This is a sad commentary on how many Americans feel isolated and helpless to have any impact on the direction of the country they love.
I just hope that there is an end to this instability that more and more everyday Americans are dealing with every day.
So, I am guessing, that this lone gunman thought by attacking those in the Republican Congress was the only way he could stop their insane policies from becoming law.
This is a sad commentary on how many Americans feel isolated and helpless to have any impact on the direction of the country they love.
I just hope that there is an end to this instability that more and more everyday Americans are dealing with every day.
Douthat’s takeaways are as follows:
1. The left-wing political rage that motivated the shooter is ‘normal’ in its ubiquity.
2. Leftist rage is every bit as socially destabilizing as any other flavor.
3. The worst that could happen – this being a trend, versus a one-off – hasn’t… yet.
4. Meanwhile, don’t parse your every word for inflammatory rhetoric; continue saying what you believe.
So, what would Douthat have the ‘resistance’ construe from this tragedy? Why, nothing beyond the agreeably anodyne!
1. The left-wing political rage that motivated the shooter is ‘normal’ in its ubiquity.
2. Leftist rage is every bit as socially destabilizing as any other flavor.
3. The worst that could happen – this being a trend, versus a one-off – hasn’t… yet.
4. Meanwhile, don’t parse your every word for inflammatory rhetoric; continue saying what you believe.
So, what would Douthat have the ‘resistance’ construe from this tragedy? Why, nothing beyond the agreeably anodyne!
The lack of civility shown by the Republican Party during the entire Obama presidency is the flame which is igniting the crazies. Our president fanned those flames with the birther lies. He fans those flames with Steve Bannon. He fans those flames with hatred and fear. Republicans continue to win through voter suppression, Citizens United and gerrymandering. Do not wonder why or be surprised when the whole thing blows up.
You're actually blaming the Republican Party for shooting members of the Republican Party? Wow. If it weren't so sad, it'd be hilarious.
1
" By which I mean that, based on what we know, James Hodgkinson had surprisingly normal political beliefs. He hated Donald Trump, he liked Bernie Sanders, he wanted higher taxes on the wealthy." This is what now passes for normal? Really? If this is the case, then who elected Trump?
Just because your candidate doesn't win the election doesn't mean your beliefs are abnormal . It means we live in a democracy
Ross, on the one hand you astutely noted that Hodgkinson was a Regular Guy, but you still somehow concluded that:
"a murderous attack on Republicans by an angry liberal should be an important reminder for our media-cultural establishment that societies can be pulled apart from the left as easily as from the right."
Sure that statement is factually correct, but ignores the fact that Hodgkinson wasn't a "leftist" by any normal definition of the word. He wasn't Communist or a hardcore socialist or activist. He was basically what, in saner times, used to be called a centrist. And THAT my friend, is the scary thing we need to take home from this. Due to the nature of our political system, we are required to pick sides, to vote Democrat or Republican if we want our vote to "count." But many if not most American voters are fundamentally centrist -- they want sane, middle-of-the-road economic policies that favor the middle class and are reasonably fair to the rich and moderately helpful to the poor. They want people to exercise their religions or lack of religion freely, but in a way that does not interfere with the operation of the state or the rights of others. They want business to succeed, but without abusing employees. When people like this are being driven by frustration to commit atrocities, we may be getting to the point of no return. Those in the public eye should be careful not to stoke the flames with their words. Nor with violent legislative actions.
"a murderous attack on Republicans by an angry liberal should be an important reminder for our media-cultural establishment that societies can be pulled apart from the left as easily as from the right."
Sure that statement is factually correct, but ignores the fact that Hodgkinson wasn't a "leftist" by any normal definition of the word. He wasn't Communist or a hardcore socialist or activist. He was basically what, in saner times, used to be called a centrist. And THAT my friend, is the scary thing we need to take home from this. Due to the nature of our political system, we are required to pick sides, to vote Democrat or Republican if we want our vote to "count." But many if not most American voters are fundamentally centrist -- they want sane, middle-of-the-road economic policies that favor the middle class and are reasonably fair to the rich and moderately helpful to the poor. They want people to exercise their religions or lack of religion freely, but in a way that does not interfere with the operation of the state or the rights of others. They want business to succeed, but without abusing employees. When people like this are being driven by frustration to commit atrocities, we may be getting to the point of no return. Those in the public eye should be careful not to stoke the flames with their words. Nor with violent legislative actions.
5
Beware of drawing conclusions based on this shooter. Other articles appearing this weekend paint the picture of an individual susceptible to violence. We need calm. We also need controls on assault weapons. I support sportsmen -- not assasins.
1
The evolution of social extremism is akin to making popcorn the old fashioned way. You find a suitable sized vessel (the constraining social norms), add in the kernels (us, the people), add oil (the conductor of social energy) and turn up the heat. Stir as you may, not all the kernels pop (go postal) at once. These early poppers are, somehow, more prone to the transition. Nonetheless, if you keep up the heat, eventually the whole batch erupts in a rapid-fire transformation. We are seeing this today - our norm is to turn up the heat of of social division and ultimatums for change, whether progressive or conservative. Let's all lower the heat for a while and let things simmer down.
1
Mr. Douthat: an interesting article found links between angry men who have shot multiple victims in one bullet filled rage. Their backgrounds almost always included perpetrating domestic violence. Rage and violence against one's own family has roots in childhood: usually these men were treated violently or at least witnessed it as young children.
Families in chaos and families with a history of violence visit abuse and/or neglect on their own children. Early abuse and/or neglect is a preventable cause of mental illness often including addiction and criminality.
How do we cope with this as a nation? The most effective and least costly way to prevent childhood abuse and/or neglect is to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
Our young need education in family management including family planning. It should be up to the individual to choose their method of family planning.
You, sir, are part of the problem in your opposition to sex education and birth control.
Families in chaos and families with a history of violence visit abuse and/or neglect on their own children. Early abuse and/or neglect is a preventable cause of mental illness often including addiction and criminality.
How do we cope with this as a nation? The most effective and least costly way to prevent childhood abuse and/or neglect is to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
Our young need education in family management including family planning. It should be up to the individual to choose their method of family planning.
You, sir, are part of the problem in your opposition to sex education and birth control.
9
Nice piece Mr Douthat , It is interesting though that one of the big targets of the radical left and the far right for that matter are law enforcement officers, be they federal , state, or local. For some reason that arm of government riles both nutty extremes.
1
Part of the risk of escalated political rhetoric by our country's leaders is that it doesn't merely convey disagreement, it encourages and prompts what might best be described as widespread paranoia.
When this propensity to adopt histrionic language is adopted by the public, generally, it is accompanied by a sense of increased vulnerability and a fear of loss. Fight or flight being the alternatives, fight all too often becomes the natural, and dangerous, response.
When this propensity to adopt histrionic language is adopted by the public, generally, it is accompanied by a sense of increased vulnerability and a fear of loss. Fight or flight being the alternatives, fight all too often becomes the natural, and dangerous, response.
2
Ross:
I'm heartened to hear from you that there is such a thing as a "decent liberal."
Until now, I thought the word "liberal", as used by you, was an epithet, or more colorfully, "dripped from your lips like contempt."
Personally, I prefer the term "progressive", because who among us can be against "progress"?
Unlike the Republican party, whose agenda, in significant ways, is influenced by illogic and irrationality i.e. science denying and conspiracy theories -- progressives are responding to an undeniable reality -- the greatest inequality in our society since the 1920's.
Indeed, as many mainstream scholars on both the right and the left have recognized, systemic, yawning inequality in our own country and in others, and between countries and regions of the world, legitimately threatens the entire world order as we know it and must be addressed, not ignored, or exacerbated.
"Let them eat cake" didn't work then, and it won't work now.
I'm heartened to hear from you that there is such a thing as a "decent liberal."
Until now, I thought the word "liberal", as used by you, was an epithet, or more colorfully, "dripped from your lips like contempt."
Personally, I prefer the term "progressive", because who among us can be against "progress"?
Unlike the Republican party, whose agenda, in significant ways, is influenced by illogic and irrationality i.e. science denying and conspiracy theories -- progressives are responding to an undeniable reality -- the greatest inequality in our society since the 1920's.
Indeed, as many mainstream scholars on both the right and the left have recognized, systemic, yawning inequality in our own country and in others, and between countries and regions of the world, legitimately threatens the entire world order as we know it and must be addressed, not ignored, or exacerbated.
"Let them eat cake" didn't work then, and it won't work now.
22
Really, Mr. Douthat, your fear is the rise of left-wing militias?? I am quite certain that on the FBI's top list of groups to look out for are not Che-Guevara groups meeting in San Francisco. I think their attention is more focused on remote areas in say Montana or Idaho or Utah...where right-wing militias are heavily armed and training for the apocalypse.
29
Observe that the attacker in Portland and the assassin in Alexandria, Virginia were not right-wingers: they both had worked for the Sanders campaign. The masked "anarchists" who show up at liberal demonstrations to destroy property, throw rocks at cops and start fights with anyone who doesn't support them are anything but conservative. Then there are the students who become violent when people who disagree with their point of view are invited to speak at their campuses. For every swastika that a right-wing nut draws on a home or church, there is a graffiti spray painting death threats against the President. I could go on and on, but you should get the picture by now that there is much to fear from both the extreme Left and the extreme Right. Hate is no stranger to either side at their extremes.
22
Mr. Douthat leaves out many episodes of political violence that were clearly motivated by right-wing ideology, including the assassination of Martin Luther King, the Oklahoma bombing, and the SC church shootings. In fact, in terms of ideological underpinnings, Hodgkinson is clearly in the minority.
I think the salient point here is that there is no intellectual way one can link the philosophy of Bernie Sanders with the actions of a violent, hate-filled man. Hodgkinson had an angry disposition and dressed it up with stated support for Sanders-style socialism. However, it is a huge stretch to link him to "liberalism" however broadly one defines it.
I think the salient point here is that there is no intellectual way one can link the philosophy of Bernie Sanders with the actions of a violent, hate-filled man. Hodgkinson had an angry disposition and dressed it up with stated support for Sanders-style socialism. However, it is a huge stretch to link him to "liberalism" however broadly one defines it.
24
Are you kidding me? Have any of you READ Douthat's column? You're proving his point with your comments that, well, MAYBE the left has a few bad marks, but it's really the RIGHT that's the problem. This is the kind of puerile partisanship that has this country in trouble. And stop with the lists coming out of outfits like the Southern Poverty Law Center, who practically see a high school Young Republicans group as a hateful organization. Stop exaggerating! Stop trying to gain the moral high ground. Both sides are at fault; one is not worse than another. We need to work together.
1
We have a Pres. who exemplifies hate and dissent. We are a nation overloaded with firearms. What other reactions can we expect from mentally unbalanced persons?
Let's act on this( reasonable gun control) and not let it drift into the background as with other deadly domestic terrorism!
Let's act on this( reasonable gun control) and not let it drift into the background as with other deadly domestic terrorism!
1
I have met far more scary "Right Wing" patriots then "Left Wing" ones.
The shooter displayed far more libertarian views than left wing ones.
I'm just glad that everyone didn't have guns at the ball field or there would have been more gunfire endangering the local population.
The shooter displayed far more libertarian views than left wing ones.
I'm just glad that everyone didn't have guns at the ball field or there would have been more gunfire endangering the local population.
17
Let’s get to the point. He was a member of the economically disadvantaged, a group in recent years having grown near exponentially, in a society now under the control of billionaires intent on making him and others like him all the more disadvantaged. The resentment he showed exists in both parties. Those on the right placed Flimflam Trump into the Presidency. At some point they will wake up and there will be a unified revolutionary movement right and left that will demand a progressive income and estate tax and social services for all.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
www.InquiryAbraham.com
6
How soon we forget that we will have a newly elected member of congress who is prone to fits of rage, who was found guilty of assault, and who must take court-ordered anger-management courses. Will he still be allowed to buy weapons?
46
Let's not forget that he was a Republican.
1
The media is not center-left. The Washington consensus is not center-left. Look at the money, at who has it. The last 40 years has been the most reactionary period of US history.
29
One whacko out of 300 million people acting in a (hopefully) unique way is not enough data to draw ANY conclusion from or to take away any lesson.
He may well have been incited to violence by the level of political discourse we held in say 1951
Certainly things are at a modern low and it would be nice to reverse course.
He may well have been incited to violence by the level of political discourse we held in say 1951
Certainly things are at a modern low and it would be nice to reverse course.
5
The most compelling argument advanced this week after the shooting on a baseball field in Alexandria Virginia is that hatred both on the left and on the right has created a highly polarized Nation. Both party leaders expressed the sentiment that partisan expression leading to violence has gone way too far.
8
Yet our President campaigned on the issue of liberating his supporters from the constraints of political correctness.
1
I work in the insurance industry, and we deal with large numbers and repeatable events. In a nation of 300 million actual political shootings like the DC shooting are so rare that they are really not statistically meaningful.
On the other hand, guns that can reliably fire dozens of bullets without jamming are sophisticated industrial products as are the bullets which must be made to close tolerances and carefully filled with enough dry powder to explode just the right way.
Who needs to own these?
No one.
Let’s not let the Second Amendment guide our thinking, let’s work the problem.
The NRA and the gun manufacturers have pushed a set of talking points to perhaps half the country such that owning such guns seems normal. It is not.
On the other hand, guns that can reliably fire dozens of bullets without jamming are sophisticated industrial products as are the bullets which must be made to close tolerances and carefully filled with enough dry powder to explode just the right way.
Who needs to own these?
No one.
Let’s not let the Second Amendment guide our thinking, let’s work the problem.
The NRA and the gun manufacturers have pushed a set of talking points to perhaps half the country such that owning such guns seems normal. It is not.
211
Here is what I believe: Something has changed and you totally ignored it in your opinion piece.
1/ That something is that we elected a man who is attempting to disassemble the greatest government in the history of the world. People get angry when you try to do that.
2/ People also get angry when the president sells out the future of the planet by working against combating global warming. This is not a minor thing!
3/ We have 300 million guns floating around the country with no means to keep them out of the hands of the mentally unstable, e.g., Hodgkinson, and those with a violent history of behavior. Preaching kumbaya is not going to change anything.
4/ Not a word in this column about gun control or background checks. Meanwhile the Republicans are still controlled by the NRA as they irresponsibly count votes.
1/ That something is that we elected a man who is attempting to disassemble the greatest government in the history of the world. People get angry when you try to do that.
2/ People also get angry when the president sells out the future of the planet by working against combating global warming. This is not a minor thing!
3/ We have 300 million guns floating around the country with no means to keep them out of the hands of the mentally unstable, e.g., Hodgkinson, and those with a violent history of behavior. Preaching kumbaya is not going to change anything.
4/ Not a word in this column about gun control or background checks. Meanwhile the Republicans are still controlled by the NRA as they irresponsibly count votes.
There are many lines of insurance. I've analyzed malpractice self-insurance, flood insurance, and deposit insurance. For these, rare events are important for rate-making, and setting rates requires more "actuarial conservatism" than other coverages; hence, the interest in self-insurance for medical malpractice coverage.
Your point about assault bullets which damage humans more than hunting bullets makes plenty of sense. Hunters wouldn't use them because internal schrapnel would be dangerous to their teeth!!! It doesn't appear that these military bullets, designed to kill, make a difference for self-defense.
Your point about assault bullets which damage humans more than hunting bullets makes plenty of sense. Hunters wouldn't use them because internal schrapnel would be dangerous to their teeth!!! It doesn't appear that these military bullets, designed to kill, make a difference for self-defense.
@Terry McKenna
Thank you for the information. I enjoy your posts.
You have conflated cartridges and bullets. From Wikipedia:
A cartridge is a type of modern ammunition using a metallic cartridge to hold fuse, propellant and bullet and which can be loaded directly into a small arms weapon.
Cartridges are analogous to space launch vehicles which usually are composed of a booster rocket (sometimes in stages) and a payload (the capsule or satellite).
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29. Its a long article. Just read the introduction.
The distinction that I think that you wish make is between is between fragmenting/explosive bullets used in warfare and none-fragmenting bullets that are more typically used in hunting. Assault weapons, especially long guns, launch bullets with about three times the muzzle velocity (speed) of handguns. Fragmenting/explosive bullets splinter on impact, producing much greater disruption of flesh.
See: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/15/opinion/virginia-baseball-shooting-gu...
Thank you for the information. I enjoy your posts.
You have conflated cartridges and bullets. From Wikipedia:
A cartridge is a type of modern ammunition using a metallic cartridge to hold fuse, propellant and bullet and which can be loaded directly into a small arms weapon.
Cartridges are analogous to space launch vehicles which usually are composed of a booster rocket (sometimes in stages) and a payload (the capsule or satellite).
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29. Its a long article. Just read the introduction.
The distinction that I think that you wish make is between is between fragmenting/explosive bullets used in warfare and none-fragmenting bullets that are more typically used in hunting. Assault weapons, especially long guns, launch bullets with about three times the muzzle velocity (speed) of handguns. Fragmenting/explosive bullets splinter on impact, producing much greater disruption of flesh.
See: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/15/opinion/virginia-baseball-shooting-gu...
One still wonders what Jodie Foster must think of herself -- not that Hinckley was her fault, but it could go a long way to explaining why you don't see much of her these days.
Ross makes a valid point that we hate one another today not so much for policies but simply for being either Democrats or Republicans; and the shame of that goes beyond the violence such unreasoning sentiment impels to our inability to engage over policy differences and carve out minimally acceptable common ground. Until we can find that common ground, which once we were able to do, the mutual hatred is self-perpetuating. Yet we'll never find it without engaging, and that requires that we both defend what we believe AND accept that the other side isn't evil merely for disagreeing.
Ross makes a valid point that we hate one another today not so much for policies but simply for being either Democrats or Republicans; and the shame of that goes beyond the violence such unreasoning sentiment impels to our inability to engage over policy differences and carve out minimally acceptable common ground. Until we can find that common ground, which once we were able to do, the mutual hatred is self-perpetuating. Yet we'll never find it without engaging, and that requires that we both defend what we believe AND accept that the other side isn't evil merely for disagreeing.
17
Mr. Leuttgen,
I see your comments frequently and I sometimes am moved to disagree with some points you were trying to make. However, your comment today is one with which I 100% totally agree and applaud you for it. You are correct.
I see your comments frequently and I sometimes am moved to disagree with some points you were trying to make. However, your comment today is one with which I 100% totally agree and applaud you for it. You are correct.
6
I k now a lot of rightists want to believe our dislike is based on blind prejudice, but in actuality it is based on policy differences. Policy and ethics. The list is long and uncontested - what we want is health care for all, preserve our environment, welcome immigrants, provide good schools for all, allow voting to be fair free and easy for everyone, keep religion out of government, work towards countering climate change with the rest of the world, help our infrastructure needs. limit guns in america, support LGBQ minorities... . All these policies have been thrown under the bus, with the Trump admin, as they were with Bush. It is policy differences, policy and ethics, @Leuttigen, plain and simple. The fake news that pretends the left is going on blind prejudice just does not hold up to scrutiny, i.e., see: health care, no pubic hearings, for starters. Go on to Trump, deal with russian interference, NOT...Pruitt, DeVos, and on and on.Policy and ethics....
But I also know you in particular are someone who does not listen to anyone, through all your postings in comments sections. I don't know why I bother to even reply.
But I also know you in particular are someone who does not listen to anyone, through all your postings in comments sections. I don't know why I bother to even reply.
45
Jodie Foster has had a big career after Hinkley. Your comment about her shows lack of understanding of Hollywood. She's 54 and was in a film released in 2016. Not many women are not cast in major roles in films after they turn 40. "Searching for Debra Winger" is a documentary on that topic.
3
"Part of what went wrong in America in the later ’60s was that the liberal establishment carried water for, protected or excused its far-left children’s rage." I am astounded to read this sentence by Douthat. Given the intransigent, denigrating resistance of McConnell, Gingrich, Labrador and too many others. I would point out that the 'pro-life' industry went far more violent and for far longer than anything in the '60's. Further, history has been very clear that from Johnson to Nixon the US Government was, in fact, mis-leading the American people, risking lives and wasting money on a pointless war. At the same time it was doing this the vicious resistance to racial justice was enshrined in Congress and the South: who can forget George Wallace in the doorway? Who can forget Selma, or Medgar Evers, or MLKing Jr? That was America at the time.
Now we have Trump, Sessions, McConnell, Pruitt et al bringing back the divisiveness, the covert violence, and the institutional resistance to fairness and justice.
What do you expect? A lifted pinky at the tea party when rights are trampled? An acceptance of tweeting, snarking meanness? Douthat has, again, missed the point of America in pursuit of his comfortable Sunday routine, trusting in institutions that support him but deny others.
Now we have Trump, Sessions, McConnell, Pruitt et al bringing back the divisiveness, the covert violence, and the institutional resistance to fairness and justice.
What do you expect? A lifted pinky at the tea party when rights are trampled? An acceptance of tweeting, snarking meanness? Douthat has, again, missed the point of America in pursuit of his comfortable Sunday routine, trusting in institutions that support him but deny others.
110
Yes, McConnell, Gingrich, and the whole Republican party do "resist" the left's endorsement of an ever expanding government. Sorry you hate that, but try to keep your sides anger under control. I also remember the 1960's. I remember Malcom X endorsing change "by any means necessary" before he was shot by a fellow Muslim. I remember the Weather Underground, the Symbionese Liberation Front, the May 19th Communist Organization. I remember the wave of riots which destroyed black neighborhoods.
1
This is a good column by Ross Douthat, although it strains a bit much to emphasize that liberal violence is as common as conservative violence. Typically, it is not – if for no reason other than the absence of a fascination with and love of guns.
The greater lesson is that it makes no sense to try to make sense of the senseless.
Anger can consume a person after a lifetime of making bad decisions and, perhaps, having more than his share of bad luck. Politics have little to do with it
The greater lesson is that it makes no sense to try to make sense of the senseless.
Anger can consume a person after a lifetime of making bad decisions and, perhaps, having more than his share of bad luck. Politics have little to do with it
18
What I believe: I believe the right promotes violent solutions much more than the left does. I believe the right facilitates violent solutions, through "gun rights" much more than the left does. I believe this has consequences.
I believe your attempt at "balance" is, actually, thus biased. That there is some violence from the left and right both, doesn't mean the situation is symmetrical. Quantities matter. The situation is not symmetrical. That is what I believe.
I believe your attempt at "balance" is, actually, thus biased. That there is some violence from the left and right both, doesn't mean the situation is symmetrical. Quantities matter. The situation is not symmetrical. That is what I believe.
127
I remember reading something to the effect that the only thing keeping a great many people from resorting to violence to solve their problems is the feeling that those same problems can be solved with no negative consequences to themselves by peaceful political action. Once they perceive that idea to be false, whether it's because the people in power aren't listening or because they are actively suppressing descent, people will start resorting to violence to get things done. I know the Republicans will be tempted to retreat into their safe areas after this, but in the long term refusing to engage with their critical constituents will only increase the likelihood of more such events.
This time the Republicans got lucky, the fact that there were no deaths (unless whats-his-name kicks it) is due to the sheer lack of skill of the gunman. Normally there are far more fatalities in cases like this.
This time the Republicans got lucky, the fact that there were no deaths (unless whats-his-name kicks it) is due to the sheer lack of skill of the gunman. Normally there are far more fatalities in cases like this.
12
Sounds like a veiled description (?endorsment) of extortion.
Mr. Douthat appears to be suffering from the delusion that his consistent backhanded, veiled justifications and normalizations of Trump's behavior aren't transparent, and that as a result he has standing to moralize.
33
The dangers of partisan violence have been acted out before in this country, with great loss of blood and a wound that remains in large part unhealed to this day. The Second Amendment and its implication that citizens have the right to violently overthrow an oppressive government was certainly one of the root causes of the American Civil War and helped enable its continuance for years.
The issue at stake was at first the right of States to determine their own fate, a right that was first asserted when southern states withdrew from the Union to form the Confederate States of America. What followed was a ferocious blood-letting that ended with slavery being abolished, although blacks are still largely denied economic equality.
The divisions that threaten to erupt in a second Civil War are based on incredible economic disparities and a political system where money is king. Republicans are doomed to be a minority party, because Democrats are traditionally favored by the poor, whose interests they represent and whose numbers are growing. So, Republicans have devised many strategies to appeal to poor people to vote against their own best interests. Severe differences of wealth and privilege signal that a society is in great danger, as they indicate a loss of common purpose and an end to civility. These in turn, history has told us repeatedly, have typically ended in strife, chaos, and violence.
The issue at stake was at first the right of States to determine their own fate, a right that was first asserted when southern states withdrew from the Union to form the Confederate States of America. What followed was a ferocious blood-letting that ended with slavery being abolished, although blacks are still largely denied economic equality.
The divisions that threaten to erupt in a second Civil War are based on incredible economic disparities and a political system where money is king. Republicans are doomed to be a minority party, because Democrats are traditionally favored by the poor, whose interests they represent and whose numbers are growing. So, Republicans have devised many strategies to appeal to poor people to vote against their own best interests. Severe differences of wealth and privilege signal that a society is in great danger, as they indicate a loss of common purpose and an end to civility. These in turn, history has told us repeatedly, have typically ended in strife, chaos, and violence.
15
So, if we face a second Civil war, who is better equipped?
After all that, the polarization of our people and our government, from which proceeds rabid rhetoric, was deemed the greatest threat to the new republic by one of its revolutionary founding fathers and second president, John Adams, and it was political party loyalty that he saw as the source of that polarization and threat to democracy and the rule of law. When we as citizens self-identify as Republicans or Democrats, we shut down discussion about the best solutions to the biggest problems. When as voters we are given only two electable choices for a Congress seat or president who were selected by their parties and will govern beholden to their parties, we are forced to vote for parties, not individual candidates. What we need to do, if it could even be done with the party system in place, is to eliminate political parties or severely limit their influence over our elections and the rules by which Congress operates.
6
The point of this article is hard to figure out. As usual, it seems like Mr. Douthat buries his point -- but what is it? That angry, violent people can come from the left? That should be obvious to anyone. But to write a long essay arguing the point smack of an unacknowledged grievance: that folks on the right in our "center-left," "elite" blah blah blah feel sorry for themselves that they are the ones tarnished with gun glorification, and that their opinions don't seem to be as respected as free expression the ways that liberals' are. This is disingenuous. It's not enough to hide your pity and tell us all to "speak what we believe." You also have to make a rational argument for what you believe in, and be honest about it.
31
"but Lee Harvey Oswald’s beliefs were Marxist, not right-wing"
Which means nothing if he was the (quickly killed) fall guy for someone else who did the assassination. Informed Americans of good will disagree about what actually happened, and his role in it.
Which means nothing if he was the (quickly killed) fall guy for someone else who did the assassination. Informed Americans of good will disagree about what actually happened, and his role in it.
14
"an ordinary Midwestern Democrat with far more rage but the same frustrations as many decent liberals"
Not more rage. He just expressed it in action in ways most would not.
It is important to understand two things. First, many Americans are very enraged. Second, that rage is being stoked as a strategy by politicians who don't seem to understand the consequences of what they are doing.
The rage is not just against Republicans either. That is why in the same regions of the Rust Belt, Hillary lost.
We find it easy to say that when abortion foes say babies are being murdered, some guy will step up to "save the babies;" when we publish rifle scope cross hairs on political figures, some buy will step up to shoot them.
Well the over the top political rage being fed on all sides, not least by liberals, also has consequences, the same consequences. If you enrage enough people, enraged enough, somebody will do something wild to act on that rage. More than one is likely, as with the multiple abortion clinic shootings.
We are playing with fire. Trump did. Now his opponents do. They do it freely, joyously, and there are people listening and taking it all literally as the End of Democracy and Attack on America.
Not more rage. He just expressed it in action in ways most would not.
It is important to understand two things. First, many Americans are very enraged. Second, that rage is being stoked as a strategy by politicians who don't seem to understand the consequences of what they are doing.
The rage is not just against Republicans either. That is why in the same regions of the Rust Belt, Hillary lost.
We find it easy to say that when abortion foes say babies are being murdered, some guy will step up to "save the babies;" when we publish rifle scope cross hairs on political figures, some buy will step up to shoot them.
Well the over the top political rage being fed on all sides, not least by liberals, also has consequences, the same consequences. If you enrage enough people, enraged enough, somebody will do something wild to act on that rage. More than one is likely, as with the multiple abortion clinic shootings.
We are playing with fire. Trump did. Now his opponents do. They do it freely, joyously, and there are people listening and taking it all literally as the End of Democracy and Attack on America.
23
Rage has always been here and will probably always be around in the future. Given that, perhaps we should try to make it more difficult for some to manifest it in socially unacceptable ways, viz., how about some real gun control? That should be the real issue.
14
Rage has always been here and will probably always be around in the future. Given that, perhaps we should try to make it more difficult for some to manifest it in socially unacceptable ways, viz., how about some real gun control? That should be the real issue.
1
As usual, the false equivalency trope has been used like a fad meme.
We should not be claiming one would be assassin from either side of the spectrum, but rather figure out what are the root causes to push someone to violence.
Well, mental health would be a starting point, because no matter the circumstance, it is abnormal to think you are going to change anything by hurting someone.
We are divided more than ever. We are so divided that even though we might know that our loved ones or friends are showing distinct signs of said violent tendencies, we stay mum and in our ''camps'',
If it makes it just a little bit harder to acquire firearms, then that is a good thing in relation to all of the above.
An all of the above strategy is required so all of the small progressions can be intertwined to make a difference.
That is what you are promoting, correct ? to actually make a difference ?
We should not be claiming one would be assassin from either side of the spectrum, but rather figure out what are the root causes to push someone to violence.
Well, mental health would be a starting point, because no matter the circumstance, it is abnormal to think you are going to change anything by hurting someone.
We are divided more than ever. We are so divided that even though we might know that our loved ones or friends are showing distinct signs of said violent tendencies, we stay mum and in our ''camps'',
If it makes it just a little bit harder to acquire firearms, then that is a good thing in relation to all of the above.
An all of the above strategy is required so all of the small progressions can be intertwined to make a difference.
That is what you are promoting, correct ? to actually make a difference ?
17
What I believe is it's a safe bet that Mr. Douthat will err on the side of the historically wrong.
22
On 23 June 2016 Senator Rand Paul tweeted: "why do we have a 2nd Amendment? It's not to shoot deer. It's to shoot at the government when it become tyrannical".
The chickens have come home to roost.
The chickens have come home to roost.
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Of course, Rand is right. That was the purpose of the second amendment. The idea was that the people would collectively retain the capacity to violently overthrow the government if necessary. Does anyone seriously believe that a bunch of folks with deer rifles are going to take on the US Army or National Guard? I don't think so. So now, thanks to the NRA, the second amendment defends gun hobbyists and irresponsible gun owners and provides a political issue for electing their right wing ideological soulmates.
31
There's nothhing in the Second Amendment that justifies armed violence against the federal government.
On the contrary, the purpose and wording of the Amendment was to enable citizen soldiers to step forward to defend the state, not attack it.
After a prolonged and painful revolutionary war, the newly formed alliance of states that was the federal government had no intention of empowering people to rise against it.
The suppression of Shay's Rebellion and the Whisky Rebellion soon showed how seriously the new government took its own defense.
Supporters of the Second Amendment who claim that it gives them the right to insurrection had better read the Constitution's definition of treason, because that's what insurrection is.
On the contrary, the purpose and wording of the Amendment was to enable citizen soldiers to step forward to defend the state, not attack it.
After a prolonged and painful revolutionary war, the newly formed alliance of states that was the federal government had no intention of empowering people to rise against it.
The suppression of Shay's Rebellion and the Whisky Rebellion soon showed how seriously the new government took its own defense.
Supporters of the Second Amendment who claim that it gives them the right to insurrection had better read the Constitution's definition of treason, because that's what insurrection is.
18
"There's nothhing in the Second Amendment that justifies armed violence against the federal government."
Of course not it is not about the "right" of insurrection, the founders took that "right" for granted. The Declaration of Independence and the revolutionary war had demonstrated that. The second amendment was designed to protect that capacity for insurrection, not to endorse it.
In fact, the relatively greater military capacity of citizen militias was used as a rebuttal to the claim that a standing federal army was a threat to freedom. That has nothing to do with any idea that the government will tolerate insurrection. Its who will win in a military contest between the government and the collective citizenry.
BTW, Shay's Rebellion happened before the constitution was written. The second Amendment was, in part, added to appease those who sympathized with it.
Of course not it is not about the "right" of insurrection, the founders took that "right" for granted. The Declaration of Independence and the revolutionary war had demonstrated that. The second amendment was designed to protect that capacity for insurrection, not to endorse it.
In fact, the relatively greater military capacity of citizen militias was used as a rebuttal to the claim that a standing federal army was a threat to freedom. That has nothing to do with any idea that the government will tolerate insurrection. Its who will win in a military contest between the government and the collective citizenry.
BTW, Shay's Rebellion happened before the constitution was written. The second Amendment was, in part, added to appease those who sympathized with it.
I think that the shooting of a Republican baseball player who is a member of Congress should be considered as a herald of things to come. If the republicans in Congress start fearing for their lives and the lives of those they hold dear maybe, just maybe, they will stop lighting fires under the feet of the poor and desperate.
We could be seeing the start of a new American Revolution, similar to that of the French Revolution. With the cut-backs in the SNAP program Mrs Trump won't be able to say: "let them eat cake".... there won't be ANYTHING to eat!
We could be seeing the start of a new American Revolution, similar to that of the French Revolution. With the cut-backs in the SNAP program Mrs Trump won't be able to say: "let them eat cake".... there won't be ANYTHING to eat!
28
For one, that's an irresponsible position and probably what the nut with the rifle thought too. Otherwise, our American Revolution not only preceded the French Revolution, but it succeeded where there's was a dismal failure.
or, you know, not. How about instead not shooting at our democratically elected representatives, and how about arresting anybody who threatens them? I like that option better.
What other country, other than the USA, Syria or Afganistan, allows people to go out and buy with ease, AK 47s and other assault weapons ?
98
Dylan Roof
17
and Timothy McVeigh
7
One might conclude from the pic that Junior G-Men (and Women) spend their work time pawing the ground for clues
3
So, Trump is but a "hapless" individual, which means that he is merely an unfortunate, unlucky poor soul in this writer's opinion. Just a random, undeserving victim of the deep and dark forces ceaselessly grinding away against him. Oh, how sorry should America feel for this dear deer helplessly caught in the political headlights. Let's start a nationwide "Help the Hapless Fund" for our President, chaired of course by the understanding, compassionate Mr. Douthat.
31
You forgot to mention, as all other Republicans have also forgotten, that our Republican President has endorsed "second-amendment solutions" to political differences, quite publicly. Neither the President or any other Republican has managed to say that was wrong.
299
Ross, if we want to avoid future violence, we need both political parties pulling in more or less the same direction.
Barack Obama would have loved to strike bipartisan agreements on corporate taxation, healthcare, immigration, and in any number of others areas - yet his efforts were routinely resisted.
In fact, Republicans not only refused to collaborate with Democrats, they also refused to allow Democrats to collaborate among themselves, by requiring a supermajority for the passage of all legislation when Democrats controlled both the House and Senate - a requirement nowhere mentioned in the Constitution - a condition that was only physically possible for a couple of months in 2009.
Ross, when one party seeks to routinely de-legitimize the other, by refusing to allow it to govern, it sends an unmistakable message to partisans that we are engaged in a kind of war. We must not be surprised when shooting later breaks out.
Were common sense to again prevail, and nonpartisan cooperation to become more the rule than the rare exception, there is little that we could not accomplish as a Union. But before common sense can prevail, Republicans will have to acknowledge that their recent rhetoric and approach, while perhaps extremely lucrative for its guiding elite and provocateur class, is less than ideal for the fabric of the nation; and that a loyal opposition has both a right to govern and a right to be respected.
Barack Obama would have loved to strike bipartisan agreements on corporate taxation, healthcare, immigration, and in any number of others areas - yet his efforts were routinely resisted.
In fact, Republicans not only refused to collaborate with Democrats, they also refused to allow Democrats to collaborate among themselves, by requiring a supermajority for the passage of all legislation when Democrats controlled both the House and Senate - a requirement nowhere mentioned in the Constitution - a condition that was only physically possible for a couple of months in 2009.
Ross, when one party seeks to routinely de-legitimize the other, by refusing to allow it to govern, it sends an unmistakable message to partisans that we are engaged in a kind of war. We must not be surprised when shooting later breaks out.
Were common sense to again prevail, and nonpartisan cooperation to become more the rule than the rare exception, there is little that we could not accomplish as a Union. But before common sense can prevail, Republicans will have to acknowledge that their recent rhetoric and approach, while perhaps extremely lucrative for its guiding elite and provocateur class, is less than ideal for the fabric of the nation; and that a loyal opposition has both a right to govern and a right to be respected.
137
Ross, do you not read your own paper?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/17/us/virginia-shooting-james-hodgkinson...
* But here in Belleville, a quaint little city where flags fly on Main Street and the movie theater marquee is set off in lights, Mr. Hodgkinson, 66, who was killed when Capitol Police officers returned his fire, was known to some friends and neighbors as a volatile figure.
“Is it shocking?” asked Doug Knepper, whose son is married to one of Mr. Hodgkinson’s foster daughters. “No, because the man did not seem 100 percent stable to me.” *
So, no, Ross. This guy was not an an "ordinary Midwestern Democrat with far more rage but the same frustrations." And the local Democrats had never heard of him.
False equivalencies make for bad arguments, especially as a premise. Want to try again?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/17/us/virginia-shooting-james-hodgkinson...
* But here in Belleville, a quaint little city where flags fly on Main Street and the movie theater marquee is set off in lights, Mr. Hodgkinson, 66, who was killed when Capitol Police officers returned his fire, was known to some friends and neighbors as a volatile figure.
“Is it shocking?” asked Doug Knepper, whose son is married to one of Mr. Hodgkinson’s foster daughters. “No, because the man did not seem 100 percent stable to me.” *
So, no, Ross. This guy was not an an "ordinary Midwestern Democrat with far more rage but the same frustrations." And the local Democrats had never heard of him.
False equivalencies make for bad arguments, especially as a premise. Want to try again?
423
Add to that, with domestic violence convictions, albeit misdemeanors, common sense would have disqualified him from sauntering into a gun shop and walking out with an assault weapon.
But which party passed legislation reversing restriction on allowing the mentally ill to buy guns? The same ones who think it's OK for men with domestic violence histories to have them. The ones who think it's OK to sell guns out of trunks at "gun shows," no questions asked.
Dear Father Doubt That, if you support a party that thinks one gun for every man woman and child in the country is somehow not enough, people are going to get shot...lots of them. Enough to have 30,000+ fatalities a year.
But which party passed legislation reversing restriction on allowing the mentally ill to buy guns? The same ones who think it's OK for men with domestic violence histories to have them. The ones who think it's OK to sell guns out of trunks at "gun shows," no questions asked.
Dear Father Doubt That, if you support a party that thinks one gun for every man woman and child in the country is somehow not enough, people are going to get shot...lots of them. Enough to have 30,000+ fatalities a year.
4
It's fascinating how many pundits have managed to ignore the core issue, crazy people with easy access to guns, in favor of pious lectures about moderating our differences. Reflective partisanship is about issues, and Second Amendment revisionists (see the last fifty years' drift) have convinced too many people everyone has a right to own multiple assault weapons and even carry them everywhere they go. No amount of singing Kumbayah around the campfire is going to alter the reality of a crazed gun culture.
324
There have been, according to published reports, more than 160 mass shootings in the United States so far in 2017. The one in Alexandria, VA this week happened to target famous people. The ones in Orlando and San Francisco in the last week targeted people who were not so famous. But their lives had just as much value to their loved ones as a Congressperson's. The issue here is gun violence. This country just tries to paper over it, but in the end it is the irresponsible selling and use of guns in our nation that is the problem.
289
Wrong. The issue here is political violence and you know it.
4
I am left wondering what constitutes a "mass shooting," of which 160 have been perpetrated so far this year.
2
Heckler - As far as there is an official requirement, it is 4 or more people shot. Consult Google for more detailed information.
8
Socrates, in an earlier comment, makes an important point: the ravings of lunatics (left or right) would be much less worrisome if the lunatics did not have such easy access to guns. Political discourse would remain discourse with reasonable management of firearms and firearm ownership.
120
Methinks, Tony, that you are belaboring the obvious
1
Why is it so difficult to understand the difference in the extremism of left and right? It is absolutely true that there are outrageous statements and acts made in the name of the right and the left. And that will always be. However, for example, Kathy Griffin is not the same as Sean Hannity - the first has been castigated by almost everyone while Hannity is the mouthpiece for Trump. We never saw the most vitriolic voices of the left in Obama's White House or on leading Clinton's campaign. Think Ted Nugent on the campaign and Steve Bannon setting the agenda in the White House. I can't remember Democratic Congressman threatening to kill or actually throwing down reporters.
I am sure if you work hard enough, you will find some high-level Democratic official making some inappropriate remark. But you will not find that kind of garbage representing that represents those in power in the Democratic party. You can find plenty of nutcases on both sides on Facebook. Only one side though has them on Face the Nation.
I am sure if you work hard enough, you will find some high-level Democratic official making some inappropriate remark. But you will not find that kind of garbage representing that represents those in power in the Democratic party. You can find plenty of nutcases on both sides on Facebook. Only one side though has them on Face the Nation.
240
Good advice, good context. My concern with what is happening to us centers mostly on Republican lawlessness and their lack of ability to compromise. Trump thinks the law is only for wimps, that if he can "win" by firing Sally Yates, James Comey and now perhaps Rod Rosenstein, in order to shut down an investigation that began as an inquiry into foreign interference with our elections, he is eager to do it. And the Republican Congress is his enabler. There is no respect for law and no focus on the interests of the nation. You bet this conduct deserves calling-out.
As to the danger he has done, please don't minimize it. Women are now fair targets for sexist comments and discrimination (if they're harassed at work they should just get another job), immigrants are called rapists and terrorists, judges are biased and racist. Trump has enabled hatred and is endangering many vulnerable and innocent people. The Republicans hopefully will listen to the majority of Americans who do not want the ACA repealed, who do not want our planet destroyed, who believe immigrants are valuable additions to our country, who want good public education for their children, and who believe that voters should have the opportunity to vote and have their votes counted. But so far it seems the Republicans don't give a fig for these things and the people who believe in them. Republicans are supporting ideas that will destroy the fabric of our country. They are doing a world of damage.
As to the danger he has done, please don't minimize it. Women are now fair targets for sexist comments and discrimination (if they're harassed at work they should just get another job), immigrants are called rapists and terrorists, judges are biased and racist. Trump has enabled hatred and is endangering many vulnerable and innocent people. The Republicans hopefully will listen to the majority of Americans who do not want the ACA repealed, who do not want our planet destroyed, who believe immigrants are valuable additions to our country, who want good public education for their children, and who believe that voters should have the opportunity to vote and have their votes counted. But so far it seems the Republicans don't give a fig for these things and the people who believe in them. Republicans are supporting ideas that will destroy the fabric of our country. They are doing a world of damage.
43
I have to disagree with your statement that Trump is more hapless than dangerous. Look at all the things he has done so far - in which i really mean undone because that is all he has accomplished, the undoing or whiting out of Obama. No more clean air or water. No restrictions for polluting, Removing those nasty banking rules that were installed after the last time the financial world ruined our economy. No more being allies with our allies. Now we are friends with the oligarchs of Russia, Saudi Arabia, the Philippines. Trump is the most dangerous leader we have ever had, so I guess he wins another contest.
35
My cousin was drafted and died in Vietnam one month later.Don't call me a leftie because I condemn that war.
39
What it is about the likes of right-wing conservative threats of the likes of David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, Randy Weaver, Eric Frein, Eric Rudolph, Dylann Roof and Cliven Bundy that denies them a place on Ross's list of political shooting threats? Or the left-wing liberal threat of a Jim Jones?
What is it about the role that mental illness and emotional instability may play in any political shooting that makes Ross ignore those factors?
What is it about 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me' that Ross never learned?
What is it about a political shooting that makes their lives, faces and names more important than an American civilian citizen victim?
Kathy Griffin is a comedian. Sean Hannity is not a journalist.
Donald Trump is not a humble moral humane empathetic person. But Trump is President of the United States while perpetrating and purveying inflammatory violent powerful provocative partisan political propaganda maliciously intent on inciting violence.
What is it about the role that mental illness and emotional instability may play in any political shooting that makes Ross ignore those factors?
What is it about 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me' that Ross never learned?
What is it about a political shooting that makes their lives, faces and names more important than an American civilian citizen victim?
Kathy Griffin is a comedian. Sean Hannity is not a journalist.
Donald Trump is not a humble moral humane empathetic person. But Trump is President of the United States while perpetrating and purveying inflammatory violent powerful provocative partisan political propaganda maliciously intent on inciting violence.
94
Center leftists are afraid of The Nation magazine and, even further afield, of Chomsky types. America is having difficulty, on both the Left and Right, defending our political frontiers (if savages merit a hearing, let us arm ourselves whilst we lend our ears). "If some government is good, isn't more better?" and vice versa. America hasn't the time for moderation.
"Socialism is the economic policy of the crowd, of the masses, remote from insight into the nature of economic activity. Socialist theory is the precipitate of their views on economic matters -- it is created and supported by those who find economic life alien, and do not comprehend it." ~ Mises, "Socialism"
"Free college and healthcare! Fifteen-dollar minimum wage!" Who can oppose such splendors, I ask? That this appeals to the do-gooding swarms is expected.
It is hard to forfend mass delirium when judicious people believe, as now, that a fair amount of alarm is de rigueur. Let us note that populism can be perilous. One can't control mob passions: "Frederigo held out for some time still, trying to persuade them; that is all the good sense of one man can do against the pressure of the times and the insistence of the many. With opinions as they then were, with the ideas of the danger so confused, so contradictory, and so far from the evidence known now, it is not difficult to understand how his good reasons might be overwhelmed, even in his own mind, by the bad ones of others." ~ Manzoni, "The Betrothed"
"Socialism is the economic policy of the crowd, of the masses, remote from insight into the nature of economic activity. Socialist theory is the precipitate of their views on economic matters -- it is created and supported by those who find economic life alien, and do not comprehend it." ~ Mises, "Socialism"
"Free college and healthcare! Fifteen-dollar minimum wage!" Who can oppose such splendors, I ask? That this appeals to the do-gooding swarms is expected.
It is hard to forfend mass delirium when judicious people believe, as now, that a fair amount of alarm is de rigueur. Let us note that populism can be perilous. One can't control mob passions: "Frederigo held out for some time still, trying to persuade them; that is all the good sense of one man can do against the pressure of the times and the insistence of the many. With opinions as they then were, with the ideas of the danger so confused, so contradictory, and so far from the evidence known now, it is not difficult to understand how his good reasons might be overwhelmed, even in his own mind, by the bad ones of others." ~ Manzoni, "The Betrothed"
4
It is interesting that you quote, on economics, a man, Mises, whose theories have been completely discredited, not only by other economists, but by history. He supported a balanced budget and low debt and even austerity. Here is what has happened ALL 6 times we have followed his advice:
The federal government has balanced the budget, eliminated deficits for more than three years, and paid down the debt more than 10% in just six periods since 1776, bringing in enough revenue to cover all of its spending during 1817-21, 1823-36, 1852-57, 1867-73, 1880-93, and 1920-30. The debt was paid down 29%. 100%, 59%, 27%, 57%, and 38% respectively. A depression began in 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893 and 1929.
The federal government has balanced the budget, eliminated deficits for more than three years, and paid down the debt more than 10% in just six periods since 1776, bringing in enough revenue to cover all of its spending during 1817-21, 1823-36, 1852-57, 1867-73, 1880-93, and 1920-30. The debt was paid down 29%. 100%, 59%, 27%, 57%, and 38% respectively. A depression began in 1819, 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893 and 1929.
3
"Free college and healthcare! Fifteen-dollar minimum wage!" Who can oppose such splendors, I ask? That this appeals to the do-gooding swarms is expected.
To an extent, such "splendors" are available to most of our fellow earthlings. The PRChina, has free college and healthcare.
We live in a splendid world
To an extent, such "splendors" are available to most of our fellow earthlings. The PRChina, has free college and healthcare.
We live in a splendid world
1
You conveniently leave out the assassination of abortion clinic workers, black men shot with impunity by police officers and many other acts of violence. Violence inspires violence, especially in the deranged mind. It is an act of violence to rip away health care for 23 million Americans. It is an act of violence to rip away hard earned money from working class and working poor and give it to wealthy Americans in some discredited trickle-down scheme. Violence is everywhere, it seems. I know many Democrats who have scorn for the narrow views of the Trump supporters. It is the Republicans who truck in hate speech, starting with the President. His sons call liberals and Democrats sub-human and not worthy of Constitutional rights. When honorable conservatives and Republicans start acting and speaking without the violence inherent in their words, no matter how softly spoken, then we may see some of the tension and violence begin to recede, but it is a false equivalence to say that the right and left are equally violent.
169
perfect. perfect. it started with MITCH saying he was going to inflict, so obama would be a one term president.
Many have decried the partisanship and divisions between the Democrats and Republicans and have treated the treatment of Trump as just another manifestation of that divide. Nothing could be further from the truth. It may just be my point of view, but I view the election of Donald Trump as a completely different animal. I have fought with, made up with, cried with, laughed with, lived with, defended, debated, dated, bedded and been besotted by Republicans for 40 years now and this is unlike any of those scenarios. Trump's election is not a departure from the political norm, it is a departure from reality. It wasn't a test of political affiliation, it was an IQ test that half the country failed, miserably. I would love to argue and hash things out with some Republican rival again but Republicans aren't recognizable anymore. They ignore Trump's behavior whether it's unethical, unbecoming, unhealthy, unprincipled or unAmerican. They don't believe in science, math or logic. Their religious and political beliefs have become cult like and any deviation, even against proven facts, are considered heresy, or fake, if you will. I've taken to shunning those I know to be Trump supporters because their support tells me they are deaf, dumb and blind to reason. I always wondered why Dorothy didn't just enjoy her time in Oz but, now I know, it is very disconcerting to be among those who remind you of those good people back home but who have changed in a way that's profoundly disturbing.
81
And what is the relationship of all this to a rabid progressive shooting Republican congressmen?
3
What if Hodgkinson has more in common with Loughner or Hinckley than Douthat assumes? His hatred of Donald Trump only seems more rational because rational people share some of his assumptions. What if Hodgkinson is just another "lunatic" obsessed with the impact Republican ideology has on the lives of people?
I would like to see more civility in our politics. I would like to see Republicans and Democrats working together to make the United States a better place. I hope something prompts this change in attitudes and behavior, but I think it's a mistake to frame this particular shooting as the lesson that might accomplish that.
It would be genuinely helpful if it would prompt us to have a serious discussion about mental health and the ability for disturbed people to get guns. How likely is that?
I would like to see more civility in our politics. I would like to see Republicans and Democrats working together to make the United States a better place. I hope something prompts this change in attitudes and behavior, but I think it's a mistake to frame this particular shooting as the lesson that might accomplish that.
It would be genuinely helpful if it would prompt us to have a serious discussion about mental health and the ability for disturbed people to get guns. How likely is that?
44
"Disturbed people" are the only people who have guns.
1
I think we should at least note that the shooter had a history of violence, even shooting at someone, but thanks to A+ NRA congressmen like Steve Scalise, he was free to shoot more people. How is that working for us?
How does such a young writer have such a keen understanding of '60s "far-left children", their "rage" and the " liberal establishment" that protected them? I wonder who he has in mind. It couldn't be the peaceful anti-war protesters whose boyfriends, husbands and brothers were dying by the thousands in Vietnam for no good reason. They didn't need protection. What about the Weather Underground and Symbionese Liberation Army? They weren't protected. Was it the angry students at Kent State? They weren't protected. I guess I think about it more like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEZoY-TMG4
How does such a young writer have such a keen understanding of '60s "far-left children", their "rage" and the " liberal establishment" that protected them? I wonder who he has in mind. It couldn't be the peaceful anti-war protesters whose boyfriends, husbands and brothers were dying by the thousands in Vietnam for no good reason. They didn't need protection. What about the Weather Underground and Symbionese Liberation Army? They weren't protected. Was it the angry students at Kent State? They weren't protected. I guess I think about it more like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKEZoY-TMG4
36
Yes, just what I would expect from a liberal--blame the victim. Have you no shame? Steve Scalise was not responsible for how the shooter was treated by law enforcement in Illinois. He was not responsible for the shooter hating Republicans. Scalise was not responsible for the attacker choosing to buy a weapon to carry out assassinations. He was not responsible for the shooter pulling the trigger. How convenient for you. Your ideological ally goes out and uses a weapon you are trying to restrict to shoot lawmakers who support the right to bear arms and in doing so he gives you a pretense for saying, "See we were right." And, of course, that we includes Hodgkinson.
3
To mention Kathy Griffin and Sean Hannity in the same sentence is puzzling. Ms. Griffin appeared in a photo shoot with a bloodied mask of Donald Trump and Sean Hannity is a popular Fox News commentator. One was very disrespectful and the other has been defending our president against constant attacks. They could not be more different. One is still on TV the other is out of a job.
13
Sean Hannity's latest bit of bile was to push the Seth Rich conspiracy nonsense. The fact that he is still a popular Fox News commentator speaks volumes as to the quality of his audience.
2
to bad and hannity goes on.
Had Kathy been a guy, would the other progressive guys have made sure that (s)he got out of that mess unaffected?
I've been in this country for 25 years and disagree with much of what both the right and the left have to say, but lately I'm getting alarmed. On one side Trump cultists who make a point of pride of not allowing any facts to influence them, on the other side leftist so blinded by their ideology that they have no human compassion left in them. In the comment section of the first NYT article on this shooting, many comments went like this: "I don't condone violence, but the Republicans had it coming, with their policies that harm millions and serve the rich few, of course at some point some people have to use their guns".
It's worth remembering that these people who "harm millions" have been elected by people to Congress, giving the Republicans control of Congress.
It's worth remembering that these people who "harm millions" have been elected by people to Congress, giving the Republicans control of Congress.
12
Andy -
I think it is also worth remembering how few Americans actually voted for those Republicans who are in congress. There are a lot of people out there, on the left and right, who think democracy has failed. Many don't really believe in self-government unless they are the ones governing. But some simply don't see our current democratic process as a tool where they can participate in any meaningful way to protect their interests. The only reason there isn't a lot more political violence is that violence is no more likely to achieve their purposes, not because they think it is off limits.
Perhaps the most telling comment was by a Republican congressman who said that "We can disagree about the role of government without me being your enemy." He and many other politicians understand politics as an intellectual theatrical game about competing abstract concepts like the"role of government." In fact, political decisions have real consequences that matter enough to people that they will turn to violence. Right now violence is limited to nuts because it has no purpose. But we are approaching a point where the violence is likely to be harnessed for specific political purposes rather than being part of the media's political theatre. As Clausewitz said, "War is politics by different means."
I think it is also worth remembering how few Americans actually voted for those Republicans who are in congress. There are a lot of people out there, on the left and right, who think democracy has failed. Many don't really believe in self-government unless they are the ones governing. But some simply don't see our current democratic process as a tool where they can participate in any meaningful way to protect their interests. The only reason there isn't a lot more political violence is that violence is no more likely to achieve their purposes, not because they think it is off limits.
Perhaps the most telling comment was by a Republican congressman who said that "We can disagree about the role of government without me being your enemy." He and many other politicians understand politics as an intellectual theatrical game about competing abstract concepts like the"role of government." In fact, political decisions have real consequences that matter enough to people that they will turn to violence. Right now violence is limited to nuts because it has no purpose. But we are approaching a point where the violence is likely to be harnessed for specific political purposes rather than being part of the media's political theatre. As Clausewitz said, "War is politics by different means."
11
clinton won the popular vote. look what bush got us into when he was elected by the supreme court, not the popular vote. WHAT! 20 years of war and counting.
4
"I don't condone violence, but the Republicans had it coming, with their policies that harm millions and serve the rich few, of course at some point some people have to use their guns".
Please point out a liberal comment that suggests that " some people have to use their guns".
I challenge you.
Please point out a liberal comment that suggests that " some people have to use their guns".
I challenge you.
2
Nothing went wrong in the later 60's except the election of Richard Nixon. Oh, and the killings of Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy. None of those things were results of "far-left children's rage". What that rage lead to was the end of the Vietnam War. What that rage lead to was equal opportunities for women. What that rage lead to was the end of segregation in the south. What that rage lead to was the environmental movement. It was that "far-left children's rage" that drove them onto the nations political agenda Any modern political argument about any of those issues is largely over their scope. In short, what all that rage lead to was positive changes we now take for granted.
As for toleration, the killings of students at Kent State and Jackson State were not exactly acts of toleration.
As for toleration, the killings of students at Kent State and Jackson State were not exactly acts of toleration.
197
Douthat, June 17, 2017: "The Trump era is crazy, but not as crazy as I feared."
Douthat, April 26, 2017: "But it could be worse. Really, it could. Let me count the ways." Number 5 was "the anti-Trump side has not yet fallen into the kind of madness that swept through our politics in the 1960s and 1970s."
OK, so a partisan on the anti-Trump side has now demolished 20% of Douthat's reasons to be calm in April. How long do you think it will take Trump, the Republicans, or the rest of us to demolish the other 80% on his list? Or to invent disasters that Douthat did not foresee?
Douthat, April 26, 2017: "But it could be worse. Really, it could. Let me count the ways." Number 5 was "the anti-Trump side has not yet fallen into the kind of madness that swept through our politics in the 1960s and 1970s."
OK, so a partisan on the anti-Trump side has now demolished 20% of Douthat's reasons to be calm in April. How long do you think it will take Trump, the Republicans, or the rest of us to demolish the other 80% on his list? Or to invent disasters that Douthat did not foresee?
10
No mention of right wing violence? The militia movements, 'shoot the Feds in the head', Oklahoma city bombing? I had to search back to the days of Father Coughlin in the FDR administration to find what appeared to be a similar level of hatred expressed towards a President that Bill Clinton faced. Professional coworkers talking about Clinton sounded like sailors in WWII talking about Tojo, others asked me to help with map and compass for their militia training as I had been in the military. This was at a Fortune 50 company.
I agree that we don't such an elevated level of dialogue but when discussing a brief history of political violence there is no reason to leave out the right wing.
I agree that we don't such an elevated level of dialogue but when discussing a brief history of political violence there is no reason to leave out the right wing.
43
The right always does as the editorialist accuses the left of doing here:excuses and normalizes it's more right wing extremist children, and then forgets the violence and the provocation, as if it never happened. Quite recently Trump vowed violence if he lost the election, and 'second amendment remedies' against his enemies. But we just aren't talking about that, now, are we?
What is funny is the shock the right wing expressed when they faced this sort of violence themselves. But they oughta know; violence, like chickens, always comes home to roost.
What is funny is the shock the right wing expressed when they faced this sort of violence themselves. But they oughta know; violence, like chickens, always comes home to roost.
86
We are cyclists. When we come to intersections we always give the right of way even if we would be "entitled" to it (we do it for safety reasons). Way over 90% of the time when drivers have the right of way over us they wave us through.
They don't have to do that. They aren't doing it to protect themselves by not hitting us. They are doing it as a small act of generosity.
My wife always rides in front. Her job is to be looking in all directions when we cross. My job is to make contact with the driver, give a short wave and a smile.
We are returning the small random act of kindness. Those drivers are all over the political spectrum. I often wonder why we can't treat each other all of the time like we are treated at those intersections.
On our daily cycling rides we experience the real America.
They don't have to do that. They aren't doing it to protect themselves by not hitting us. They are doing it as a small act of generosity.
My wife always rides in front. Her job is to be looking in all directions when we cross. My job is to make contact with the driver, give a short wave and a smile.
We are returning the small random act of kindness. Those drivers are all over the political spectrum. I often wonder why we can't treat each other all of the time like we are treated at those intersections.
On our daily cycling rides we experience the real America.
19
During his famously successful campaign, Trump, pandering as most Republicans do to the NRA crowd, said that if Clinton were elected she’d nominate a judge sympathetic to gun control, and there’d be “nothing you can do.” But then he would add knowingly: “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”
Last week a despairing Sanders supporter, an older white working class male like many Trump supporters, left Illinois, with legally purchased firearms, for Virginia, a state with lax gun control laws, with a list of Republican Congressmen, who, not only have adamantly stymied sensible gun control laws, but just voted to take away affordable health care from older Americans.
How ironic he would pursue a “Second Amendment solution” against the very leaders who pander to Second Amendment supporters. Perhaps Trump, too, betrays his supporters at his own peril.
Last week a despairing Sanders supporter, an older white working class male like many Trump supporters, left Illinois, with legally purchased firearms, for Virginia, a state with lax gun control laws, with a list of Republican Congressmen, who, not only have adamantly stymied sensible gun control laws, but just voted to take away affordable health care from older Americans.
How ironic he would pursue a “Second Amendment solution” against the very leaders who pander to Second Amendment supporters. Perhaps Trump, too, betrays his supporters at his own peril.
101
"Styming" gun control is a popular political position. It could get you elected.
1
Last evening, HBO's VICE ran a segment on guns in America: the stats of the freakishly fantastical increase in gun sales during Obama's presidency ("Barack's Bump", the NRA calls it) fueled by the lie that he was "coming to get your guns"; and focusing on the NRA's program to get the next generation hooked on loving and buying guns: for 10 yr olds, it's shooting ranges, competitions, $5,000 cheques for promoting guns. There are 10x more places to buy a gun in America than there are to buy a Big Mac.
It is disgusting that liberals and Democrats are blaming the victims of a rabidly progressive lunatic for being shot by him.
2
Good Lord, Ross. You make it almost sound that you're glad this guy was a "normal liberal Democrat" (far from it!) because for once, correcting for "liberal bias," your party was due for a corrective.
Look violence is violence, and angry people are angry--until the anger gets out of control, coincides with this week's theme, that polarization is literally killing us. But you also leave out one very important factoid, which is this: how easy it was for Hodgkinson to get a gun.
Look, I simply don't agree this was your "normal liberal Democrat." I know plenty of normal liberal Democrats who yell at their TVs but don't go out and buy guns or maintain a hit list of GOP members to kill.
As more comes out, and some already has, the guy had a history of facebook ranting, and some other clues leading him to be a misfit.
But I think it's your last sentence that really had me shaking my head in disbelief when you wrote, "This is a free country, and still, thank God, a mostly peaceful one. Say what you believe."
"Say what you believe" is fine. But "mostly peaceful one"? Really? WE have more guns per capita and more gratuitous violence than any other modern industrialized country on earth.
Irrespective of whether this week's needless violence on a baseball field was racist, sexist, homophobic, or politically partisan.
Look violence is violence, and angry people are angry--until the anger gets out of control, coincides with this week's theme, that polarization is literally killing us. But you also leave out one very important factoid, which is this: how easy it was for Hodgkinson to get a gun.
Look, I simply don't agree this was your "normal liberal Democrat." I know plenty of normal liberal Democrats who yell at their TVs but don't go out and buy guns or maintain a hit list of GOP members to kill.
As more comes out, and some already has, the guy had a history of facebook ranting, and some other clues leading him to be a misfit.
But I think it's your last sentence that really had me shaking my head in disbelief when you wrote, "This is a free country, and still, thank God, a mostly peaceful one. Say what you believe."
"Say what you believe" is fine. But "mostly peaceful one"? Really? WE have more guns per capita and more gratuitous violence than any other modern industrialized country on earth.
Irrespective of whether this week's needless violence on a baseball field was racist, sexist, homophobic, or politically partisan.
204
Those who knew him give no indication of mental illness. This normal man was turned into a murderer by political indoctrination.
Maybe that's what happened twenty-two years ago with Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. But the multiple sniper murders in Dallas and Louisiana fit right in with Mr. Obama's hatred of cops and, let's face it, white working-class America.
Maybe that's what happened twenty-two years ago with Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. But the multiple sniper murders in Dallas and Louisiana fit right in with Mr. Obama's hatred of cops and, let's face it, white working-class America.
1
Poll after poll has indicated that a vast majority of U.S. citizens--including members of the NRA and other gun owners--favor reasonable, common sense gun control legislation. Nonetheless the GOP remains recalcitrant in its opposition to such measures and in its support of gun manufacturers.
This is just one more bit of evidence leading to an indisputable conclusion: The GOP is the anti-democracy party, not just the anti-Democratic party.
Is it any wonder that many voters now believe or feel in their bones that the U.S. is now a “competitive authoritarianism,”* a system in which democratic institutions survive in a severely weakened form, but wherein government officials abuse state power to aid their allies and disadvantage their adversaries—a system in which the considered preferences of the majority of citizens are ignored and abuses of power go well beyond those associated with traditional patronage.
Far too many an American politician seems to recognize but one major principle: The end—promoting the interests of my party and its donors—justifies the means. Too many citizens now rightly or wrongly believe: Since no governmental institution is bigger than the greed and lust for power that drives the person in charge, no institution is to be trusted.
The current political polarization further demoralizes the people and heighten their cynical sense that the system is rigged against them and their interests.
This is just one more bit of evidence leading to an indisputable conclusion: The GOP is the anti-democracy party, not just the anti-Democratic party.
Is it any wonder that many voters now believe or feel in their bones that the U.S. is now a “competitive authoritarianism,”* a system in which democratic institutions survive in a severely weakened form, but wherein government officials abuse state power to aid their allies and disadvantage their adversaries—a system in which the considered preferences of the majority of citizens are ignored and abuses of power go well beyond those associated with traditional patronage.
Far too many an American politician seems to recognize but one major principle: The end—promoting the interests of my party and its donors—justifies the means. Too many citizens now rightly or wrongly believe: Since no governmental institution is bigger than the greed and lust for power that drives the person in charge, no institution is to be trusted.
The current political polarization further demoralizes the people and heighten their cynical sense that the system is rigged against them and their interests.
18
Ask Philando Castile if this is a mostly peaceful country.
Or those 9 people shot in the Charleston church 2 years ago tonight.
For that matter, ask Steve Scalise and those who were shot on a baseball field Wednesday morning.
Most of us strive for peace. That should be the ultimate goal. Not money.
Or those 9 people shot in the Charleston church 2 years ago tonight.
For that matter, ask Steve Scalise and those who were shot on a baseball field Wednesday morning.
Most of us strive for peace. That should be the ultimate goal. Not money.
69
@Debra: I concur. I nearly fell off my chair when I read that "mostly" peaceful part. Sure it's peaceful if you live in a gated community or in a penthouse guarded by security systems, but for the masses, or people of color, Hispanics or "muslim-looking" people not so much.
Lost in the musings on the shooting of Scalise is the ubiquity of guns and the abhorrent need for the GOP immediately after to actually loosen gun purchase requirements (I have no idea what was left to loosen) instead of tighten them.
Only in America, right?
Lost in the musings on the shooting of Scalise is the ubiquity of guns and the abhorrent need for the GOP immediately after to actually loosen gun purchase requirements (I have no idea what was left to loosen) instead of tighten them.
Only in America, right?
38
Those dots do not connect.
1
In the US there is an increasing army of anxious individuals--people afflicted by anxiety born of economic insecurity, job insecurity, marital insecurity, healthcare insecurity, elder-care insecurity, etc. Is it a surprise that some of these anxious individuals become increasingly unstable and haunted by the suspicion that the system is rigged against them? Is it surprising that, in a land of readily available firearms, a significant number of these individuals will use these weapons to commit suicide, or to kill or wound whomever they perceive to be the cause of their haunted condition? Or that, as their mental health further deteriorates, they, often suicidally, will shoot anyone who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Would it serve the general welfare if we, as a community, did a great deal more to reduce the economic insecurity, job insecurity, marital insecurity, healthcare insecurity, elder care insecurity, etc., that afflicts so many of our fellow citizens? We could, if we had the political will, lessen the threat of gun violence in our nation. Wouldn’t that common sense effort be justified, not only by compassion, but also by communal self-defense?
Would it serve the general welfare if we, as a community, did a great deal more to reduce the economic insecurity, job insecurity, marital insecurity, healthcare insecurity, elder care insecurity, etc., that afflicts so many of our fellow citizens? We could, if we had the political will, lessen the threat of gun violence in our nation. Wouldn’t that common sense effort be justified, not only by compassion, but also by communal self-defense?
12
On last Friday's episode of "Real Time with Bill Maher", intelligence analyst Malcolm Nance stated that, shortly after the inauguration of Barack Obama, friends of Nance in the Secret Service were busy practicing with long-barreled rifles to prevent possible assassination attempts on the new president.
There are no left-wing paramilitary groups in America.
There are no left-wing paramilitary groups in America.
362
It is just mind-numbing the mental gymnastics necessary for liberals to deny the significance of a rabid progressive attempting to conduct a mass assassination of dozens of Republican lawmakers playing baseball. A progressive who feasted on the propaganda at MSNBC that Republicans are killing us and Trump is illegitimate.
Yes, President Obama faced assassination threats and plots. So does President Trump. We know that Hodgkinson would have killed Trump if he could have gotten to him. All presidents have faced these threats in the modern era. However, there are no assassination attempts of anyone associated with the Tea Party or conservative movement politics, contrary to the progressive mythology. But we do have a Bernie Bro shooting down Republican lawmakers in cold blood.
Yes, President Obama faced assassination threats and plots. So does President Trump. We know that Hodgkinson would have killed Trump if he could have gotten to him. All presidents have faced these threats in the modern era. However, there are no assassination attempts of anyone associated with the Tea Party or conservative movement politics, contrary to the progressive mythology. But we do have a Bernie Bro shooting down Republican lawmakers in cold blood.
3
There most certainly are, if you think for one minute that elements of the radical leftist antifa movement aren't planning to ratchet up their violence your sadly mistaken. Malcolm Nance could opine on that if he were still talking to contacts in the Secret Service, they at least are well aware of it.
1
Kevin,
Thanks for proving with your post that liberals can be as out of touch as conservatives.
Thanks for proving with your post that liberals can be as out of touch as conservatives.
1
Ross, I am still recovering from the shock of your actually using the phrase "decent liberals."
We used to see political battles fought with strong words and argumentation not calumny and sheer volume. it was not necessary to defame your opponent because he/she disagreed with your philosophy or simply your viewpoint. Our political leaders used to be able to express themselves as adults complete with adult vocabularies -- and I don't mean the four letter adult vocabularies. And they spoke to their supporters as thinking human beings and not by appealing to their basest instincts as if the voting public were a mere rabble to be stirred up.
I don't know when "liberal" became slur to be hurled with a snarl, nor do I remember who the first Republican was to refer to the "Democrat" party as a means of diminishing the legitimacy of the political left.
I hope that Representative Scalise fully recovers and can take his place back in Congress. Democrats and Republicans both need strong but loyal opponents. In short we all need to realize that in the United States we should all be "small d" democrats. Our Union and our future depend on ti.
We used to see political battles fought with strong words and argumentation not calumny and sheer volume. it was not necessary to defame your opponent because he/she disagreed with your philosophy or simply your viewpoint. Our political leaders used to be able to express themselves as adults complete with adult vocabularies -- and I don't mean the four letter adult vocabularies. And they spoke to their supporters as thinking human beings and not by appealing to their basest instincts as if the voting public were a mere rabble to be stirred up.
I don't know when "liberal" became slur to be hurled with a snarl, nor do I remember who the first Republican was to refer to the "Democrat" party as a means of diminishing the legitimacy of the political left.
I hope that Representative Scalise fully recovers and can take his place back in Congress. Democrats and Republicans both need strong but loyal opponents. In short we all need to realize that in the United States we should all be "small d" democrats. Our Union and our future depend on ti.
12
" I hope that Representative Scalise fully recovers and can take his place back in Congress. "
Let's also hope he and his colleagues have an epiphany about the insanity of allowing unstable individuals easy access to guns. Somehow I seriously doubt this will happen. After all, the slaughter of 20 young elementary school children couldn't move their coal black hearts one iota so I doubt this latest terrorist attack will have an impact. They sold their souls to the devil (NRA) long ago and the collection is now coming due.
Let's also hope he and his colleagues have an epiphany about the insanity of allowing unstable individuals easy access to guns. Somehow I seriously doubt this will happen. After all, the slaughter of 20 young elementary school children couldn't move their coal black hearts one iota so I doubt this latest terrorist attack will have an impact. They sold their souls to the devil (NRA) long ago and the collection is now coming due.
4
"I don't know when 'liberal' became a slur to be hurled with a snarl..."
In my recollection, fwiw, it was during George H. W. Bush's first nomination acceptance speech in 1988. The "Democrat Party" slur goes back much further, at least to Joe McCarthy if not further back still.
In my recollection, fwiw, it was during George H. W. Bush's first nomination acceptance speech in 1988. The "Democrat Party" slur goes back much further, at least to Joe McCarthy if not further back still.
3
Sorry, Mr. Douthat, but it seems to me that The Donald would be a good deal more dangerous if he weren't so hapless. Imagine where this country would be right now if Trump's ambitions weren't restrained by the courts and, to some extent, by the congress. My own takeaway from this week's attack on the ballfield in Virginia is that progressives, much like conservatives, have a bunch of lunatics in our midst. The difference is that we don't elect ours to high office.
378
Touche, Stu. Your last line is devastating.
17
Said sweetly, neatly, and completely.
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When the pressures become great enough, that sad truth becomes more evident, there are lunatics on both sides. Maybe some will start getting the message they need to do something to ease those pressures on otherwise decent folks who have become sick and tired of being squeezed till dry. Any animal backed into a corner will fight, lash out incoherently in a struggle to survive.
Hmmm - so Gabby Giffords's attacker, who actually killed 6 other people including Arizona's chief federal judge, and wounded 12 more that day, is casually dealt with by Douthat as ' a lunatic ' but the Alexandria shooter deserves treatment as someone needing serious examination, instead of likewise being ' a lunatic ' ?
Seems a little too convenient to wave away as ' a lunatic ' someone who could have been motivated by Sarah Palin's SarahPAC ad from 2010, which had cross-hairs on Giffords's district along with the heading " IT'S TIME TO TAKE A STAND ":
http://www.mediaite.com/online/sarahpac-website-hit-list-image-that-incl...
All political speech should meet some minimum standard, and the 6 people murdered in 2011 along with the 12 wounded at Giffords's constituent meet-and-greet which so grievously injured her, deserve the same consideration as Congress-persons, instead of blithe dismissal.
Seems a little too convenient to wave away as ' a lunatic ' someone who could have been motivated by Sarah Palin's SarahPAC ad from 2010, which had cross-hairs on Giffords's district along with the heading " IT'S TIME TO TAKE A STAND ":
http://www.mediaite.com/online/sarahpac-website-hit-list-image-that-incl...
All political speech should meet some minimum standard, and the 6 people murdered in 2011 along with the 12 wounded at Giffords's constituent meet-and-greet which so grievously injured her, deserve the same consideration as Congress-persons, instead of blithe dismissal.
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Exactly so. It also must be mentioned that the people who lost their lives in another mass shooting event in San Francisco the very same day as the congressional shooting are every bit as important as those republican congressmen and their lobbyists.
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@R. Law: You are proving Douthat's point. Perhaps in some theoretical, philosophical sense, Gifford's attacker "could" have been motivated by Sara Palin's ad, but he wasn't. His motivations had nothing to do Sarah Palin or the Tea Party or conservatism or any of your collection of "deplorables." Loughner had psychological problems made worse by drub abuse. His ideas were a rambling incoherent mess. His friends stated that he was either apolitical or a left-winger. Again, let me repeat, there is absolutely zero evidence that the Palin ad had any influence on Loughner, but you need fake news to support your narrative.
Hodgkinson on the other hand was unequivocally politically motivated. And, we know whence he drew his inspiration. He drew it from public figures declaring that Trump is an illegitimate president and that Republican policies will kill people, people such as Rachel Maddow and Bernie Sanders.
I don't hold any pundit or politico responsible for what Hodgkinson did, but the same people who falsely accused Palin of motivating Loughner are not the least bit upset when a killer really is motivated by politics, because when it really has happened it was done by liberal.
Hodgkinson on the other hand was unequivocally politically motivated. And, we know whence he drew his inspiration. He drew it from public figures declaring that Trump is an illegitimate president and that Republican policies will kill people, people such as Rachel Maddow and Bernie Sanders.
I don't hold any pundit or politico responsible for what Hodgkinson did, but the same people who falsely accused Palin of motivating Loughner are not the least bit upset when a killer really is motivated by politics, because when it really has happened it was done by liberal.
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Charles - You used the term ' deplorables '; we didn't, and never have.
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Lately, it seems that the left is getting it from both sides. In the general call for calm, we’re all supposed to make nice and talk pleasantly to each other, as Republicans build walls, try to impose illegal travel bans, destroy every scrap of Mr. Obama’s legacy, re-criminalize abortions, replace healthcare for the needy with wealthcare for the rich, undermine public education, appoint certifiable morons to cabinet positions and fill the White House with the foul reek of white supremacists.
These are considered reasonable positions, while students turning their backs at commencement speeches on conservatives who want to destroy the world they’re going to live in are considered destroyers of discourse.
Conservatives can’t seem to understand that we made enormous progress during most of the 20th century. We protected workers from abuse with unions, we provided retirement security for people who built the country, and we recognized that people of color, women and gay people were human after all, and deserved human rights.
Mr. Douthat and other conservatives should realize that we’re not going to be dragged back to the days of robber barons, segregated lunch counters, back-alley abortions and starvation wages. Period. Any attempt to do so will be met with outrage and anger. I don’t think we’ll be shooting people, but we’ll be throwing them out of office in droves.
That will be the peaceful alternative that we’ll try in 2018. I hope it doesn’t make Mr. Douthat angry.
These are considered reasonable positions, while students turning their backs at commencement speeches on conservatives who want to destroy the world they’re going to live in are considered destroyers of discourse.
Conservatives can’t seem to understand that we made enormous progress during most of the 20th century. We protected workers from abuse with unions, we provided retirement security for people who built the country, and we recognized that people of color, women and gay people were human after all, and deserved human rights.
Mr. Douthat and other conservatives should realize that we’re not going to be dragged back to the days of robber barons, segregated lunch counters, back-alley abortions and starvation wages. Period. Any attempt to do so will be met with outrage and anger. I don’t think we’ll be shooting people, but we’ll be throwing them out of office in droves.
That will be the peaceful alternative that we’ll try in 2018. I hope it doesn’t make Mr. Douthat angry.
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Brilliant post. The best response yet to Douthat's disingenuous column.
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Better to meet the Republican menace by overwhelming numbers at the polls every time there is a vote. But no, independent and Democratic leaning voters either don't turn out or they are disenfranchised through a myriad of anti-voter Republican actions: gerrymandered districts, too few poll places, too few people manning polling places (making for waiting times of hours to vote), elimination of certain less desirable voters: minorities, elderly, students, photo requirements but no places to get the photos taken. These and many more obstacles have been initiated over the last 25 years in a corporate funded effort to shift government control to ever more business friendly hands.
Do not look to the Courts to alleviate the injustice because the majority of new judges will be Conservative and they now are the SCOTUS majority. The US has subtly shifted to a corporate led oligarchy and McConnell and Ryan are merely the treasonous heads of this political philosophy. Nothing that Douthat says is pertinent to this overwhelming problem we now face which is government by the monied elite who are deaf to economic justice or any other kind of justice and a narcissistic President without experience or understanding of government. The Republicans are now in the process of destroying every government policy since the Civil War that aims to make ordinary life better. All other comment is fluff.
Do not look to the Courts to alleviate the injustice because the majority of new judges will be Conservative and they now are the SCOTUS majority. The US has subtly shifted to a corporate led oligarchy and McConnell and Ryan are merely the treasonous heads of this political philosophy. Nothing that Douthat says is pertinent to this overwhelming problem we now face which is government by the monied elite who are deaf to economic justice or any other kind of justice and a narcissistic President without experience or understanding of government. The Republicans are now in the process of destroying every government policy since the Civil War that aims to make ordinary life better. All other comment is fluff.
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Father Douthat, society will always be littered with lunatics; that's a guarantee.
The question is: how does society treat its lunatics and aspiring lunatics ?
Do we ignore them until their minds explode in a flourish of fatalities ?
Do we give them a chance to improve their mental health by offering affordable healthcare and mental healthcare ?
Do we give nearly unrestricted access to murder weapons to individuals predisposed to violence and mental instability ?
James Hodgkinson was previously known to have dragged his grandniece by her hair and to have tried to choke her and was charged with battery.
In previously sealed court papers, Hodgkinson's grandniece described him as an abusive alcoholic who hit her repeatedly.
Many men - like James Hodgkinson - have short tempers and serious anger management issues and a record of domestic violence.
The reasonable solution for these unstable characters is court-ordered access to mental health AND the prohibition of mass murder weapons.
But what does America provide ?
The opposite: limited mental healthcare access and nearly unrestricted access to firearms, the defacto asylum platform of the Republican party that does not seem troubled that 90 Americans will die today and tomorrow and every day from guns and bullets.
America is simply not a safe country because of guns.
Japan has nearly eliminated gun deaths through strict gun control.
America has nearly eliminated common sense through strict gun 'free-dumb'.
The question is: how does society treat its lunatics and aspiring lunatics ?
Do we ignore them until their minds explode in a flourish of fatalities ?
Do we give them a chance to improve their mental health by offering affordable healthcare and mental healthcare ?
Do we give nearly unrestricted access to murder weapons to individuals predisposed to violence and mental instability ?
James Hodgkinson was previously known to have dragged his grandniece by her hair and to have tried to choke her and was charged with battery.
In previously sealed court papers, Hodgkinson's grandniece described him as an abusive alcoholic who hit her repeatedly.
Many men - like James Hodgkinson - have short tempers and serious anger management issues and a record of domestic violence.
The reasonable solution for these unstable characters is court-ordered access to mental health AND the prohibition of mass murder weapons.
But what does America provide ?
The opposite: limited mental healthcare access and nearly unrestricted access to firearms, the defacto asylum platform of the Republican party that does not seem troubled that 90 Americans will die today and tomorrow and every day from guns and bullets.
America is simply not a safe country because of guns.
Japan has nearly eliminated gun deaths through strict gun control.
America has nearly eliminated common sense through strict gun 'free-dumb'.
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One of your best.
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Japan has also eliminated all semblance of immigration.
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If guns (300 million+) and gun owners (100 million+) were as statistically dangerous as you make out, things would be a lot worse. That's not to say we shouldn't pay more attention to those with mental issues that make gun ownership dangerous in their hands, we should. We emptied the mental hospitals 30-odd years ago and let the cops deal with the problem. Obviously this was the wrong approach. If we can't afford mental health, as well as physical health and financial health, it follows that lots of folks will be angry and resentful. Some that feel helpless and forgotten will express their rage in this worst of all possible ways. At the moment we have a certifiable sociopath leading the charge, inspiring and assuring a frightening number of us it's ok to be "different". He's advocated violence on the campaign trail, and continues to do so in his fake tough guy act. Under these conditions w're not going to fix any of this any time soon. Simply laying it off on guns is just that, simple, and wrong.
1
The United States has seen assassinations and attempted assassinations of political and social leaders of all stripes, from Robert and John Kennedy, to Martin Luther King, to Ronald Reagan, and more. Any is one too many, but there is no indication that they will stop. While the respective shooters had different motives, what they shared was access to lethal weapons.
We can and should tone down the rhetoric, and call public figures on incendiary comments, the dangers remain so long as guns are easily accessible.
We can and should tone down the rhetoric, and call public figures on incendiary comments, the dangers remain so long as guns are easily accessible.
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We have a lot of dangerous issues to focus on now and we must keep our focus on all aspects, without allowing ourselves to be distracted by the clickbait headlines. Captain Chaos is a master at creating the clickbait. We must be the masters at keeping track of what is being done, rather than the crazy things that are being said to distract us. Yes, some people will do violent things that the vast majority of us would never dream of doing. The question is why?
We are told we need to resist. How are we resisting? What are we resisting How well? Who is leading this resistance?
http://www.rimaregas.com/?s=resistance
We are told we need to resist. How are we resisting? What are we resisting How well? Who is leading this resistance?
http://www.rimaregas.com/?s=resistance
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How... nice and convenient! Most of the political assassination attempts were done by lefties and one example of a right-wing act of violence draped in mental illness is thrown in to create the needed balance. But do we read anything about the underlying conditions for the state of discord we find ourselves in? Not a one! Do we read anything about the daily diet of deflection we are being treated to in our media and the silence on what the executive and legislative branches are doing not only to roll everything back to before FDR, but turn what was a plutocracy into an oligarchy? Anything on the underlying state of our new economy and how well we are faring at "full employment" in a gig economy? Anything about the housing crises many cities and states are experiencing? Anything about the anger a lot of Americans are feeling, with nowhere to put it?
Nope! Not a one! Just don't worry too much about what you say and, oh, stay away from fake news. Righto, Ross!
--
Nothing much has changed since this profile of the "Angry American..."
http://www.rimaregas.com/2016/06/profiling-the-angry-american-in-this-ne...
Nope! Not a one! Just don't worry too much about what you say and, oh, stay away from fake news. Righto, Ross!
--
Nothing much has changed since this profile of the "Angry American..."
http://www.rimaregas.com/2016/06/profiling-the-angry-american-in-this-ne...
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