Can we stop pretending every single twit who breaks our immigration laws is a saint? This paper's attempt to pretend that importing lots of unskilled Latino peasants will turn this country into utopia is laughable.
100
Deporting American citizens from ... America, what a clever and dangerous idea.
62
America welcomes LEGAL immigrants, not foreigners who flout our immigration laws, have anchor babies who are educated and receive healthcare at taxpayers' expense. Kick all the illegal aliens out, change the current immigration system from a family to a merit based system and we will continue to prosper. And as for the illegal aliens who have been here for years they will finally pay the price for breaking our nation's laws. They made their bed when they crossed the border illegally they should lie in it back in their country of origin.
85
This article could not have been better written. I've attempted to hire local so-called "hard-working Americans" and in many cases nearly ended up bankrupt trying like hell to make good use of them. From my experience, the immigrants (legal or not) are much harder working, much less willing to complain, and are appreciative of the opportunity to work. I fully agree with Bret...nobody would accept these entitled Americans. Anyone not having the experience of trying to rely on them has no idea how vital the immigrant pool is to a American entrepreneur.
668
I'm friendly with, but not a friend of, a nice guy. He the son of immigrants, is a college graduate, religious, married, and has a child of whom he and his wife are proud. This guy has moved up in his job and recently got a very good promotion. However, his attitude towards immigrants is such that he wants no part of ANY of them. To quote him, "I want what I want for myself. To hell with everyone else." He was dead serious when he told this to a group of us. Can you guess who this intelligent person voted for? This guy should be the first to go.
337
I agree completely . Here on Cape Cod, the work force of native born Americans is abysmal, especially amongst the younger generations (40 and below). The social ills of so many of them is staggering: substance abuse, out-of-wedlock babies with no means of economic support for these children, disastrous social skills, etc. I have seen many look literally confused or bitter that they are expected to actually do something to earn their money; They really seem to believe it should be handed to them. It's bizarre. Conversely, when I have worked with immigrants, I have found them to be very hard workers, very skilled, pleasant, and committed to the task at hand. I have found myself confused when I've heard particularly conservative politicians condemning them as being criminals and otherwise non-contributing. My generation of parents, as a group, demanded nothing of their children, and it is showing. Litter is everywhere, because these now adults were never told to put their dishes in the dishwasher and their trash in the trash can. Many were, in fact, taught that they don't have to care about other people, only themselves. I have affluent clients who hire someone to come once a week to clean up after their dogs, apparently believing their able-bodied children are too precious for such a task, which in turn teaches children that they are better than others, the picking up poop is mean for lower ladder rungs. Very disturbing.
602
I like this kind of provocative humor.
I fully understand the historical development of nation-states and the resulting borders. I do not understand why they persist into the modern era. Are we not all members of a single species? Do we not all benefit from peace, and suffer from war? Surely cultures, cultural differences, languages and so-on have value. Are they worth perpetual war on this tiny planet? I think not.
I believe that humans should abolish borders. If every world citizen were free to travel and migrate anywhere on the planet, within some months nearly everyone would be located where they wish. If resources and manpower worked to the benefit of the entire world's people, rather than to the benefit of the few located within imaginary lines on a map, so much more could be accomplished, and planet earth would not resemble the war-ravaged hell hole it is now.
I fully understand the historical development of nation-states and the resulting borders. I do not understand why they persist into the modern era. Are we not all members of a single species? Do we not all benefit from peace, and suffer from war? Surely cultures, cultural differences, languages and so-on have value. Are they worth perpetual war on this tiny planet? I think not.
I believe that humans should abolish borders. If every world citizen were free to travel and migrate anywhere on the planet, within some months nearly everyone would be located where they wish. If resources and manpower worked to the benefit of the entire world's people, rather than to the benefit of the few located within imaginary lines on a map, so much more could be accomplished, and planet earth would not resemble the war-ravaged hell hole it is now.
460
A decent column. All the way up to the part about "native-born" Americans not reproducing enough, and the Japanese "demographic death spiral."What is it about conservatives and population? Why are they so consumed with the desire for ever-more people, and so utterly blind to the problems this brings?
Here is what logic tells us, unimpeachably: 1) The earth is finite. 2) You cannot put an infinite quantity of anything into a finite container. 3) If that is the case, then, eventually, there will have to be a limit on the amount of people on earth. And 4) If that is the case, it makes infinitely more sense to start figuring out how to limit our numbers now than it would to do it under the threat of a looming Malthusian crisis.
The "Japanese demographic death spiral" is like the "stagnant French economy" - a trope that conservatives drag out to frighten people and to obscure the more nuanced, more positive truth. France is a delightful place to live with some economic problems. And Japan is a functioning and creative modern country with some social-welfare challenges tied to its aging population. It is not some senescent hell-hole,
Meanwhile, the US is a place of strained infrastructure, neglected children, suburban blight, diminished wild lands, and ever-more-light-polluted night skies. We have problems, too!
We need to limit our numbers; it makes sense to do it now; this will entail challenges, but so would dong nothing. Why can't conservatives seem to see this?
Here is what logic tells us, unimpeachably: 1) The earth is finite. 2) You cannot put an infinite quantity of anything into a finite container. 3) If that is the case, then, eventually, there will have to be a limit on the amount of people on earth. And 4) If that is the case, it makes infinitely more sense to start figuring out how to limit our numbers now than it would to do it under the threat of a looming Malthusian crisis.
The "Japanese demographic death spiral" is like the "stagnant French economy" - a trope that conservatives drag out to frighten people and to obscure the more nuanced, more positive truth. France is a delightful place to live with some economic problems. And Japan is a functioning and creative modern country with some social-welfare challenges tied to its aging population. It is not some senescent hell-hole,
Meanwhile, the US is a place of strained infrastructure, neglected children, suburban blight, diminished wild lands, and ever-more-light-polluted night skies. We have problems, too!
We need to limit our numbers; it makes sense to do it now; this will entail challenges, but so would dong nothing. Why can't conservatives seem to see this?
419
Our country was made great by immigrants. It is now being destroyed by homegrown ignorants.
616
So then, can we just cut to these chase and call these folks 'deplorables' - because they're about one and the same.
189
My husband works for a large biotech company where he is teased as a "foreigner" because he is the only person in his unit born in the US. In my own job, I interact daily with Chinese, Indian, European, Middle Eastern and other immigrants and I consistently find that the best professionals and best students are foreign-born. It is not just education. Americans often exhibit intellectual immaturity, close-mindedness, inability to think critically, and lack of curiosity about the world. To me, the last is the most damning quality. If you are not curious or intellectually alive, you are hardly alive at all, as far as I am concerned. I've been to some small American towns, populated by native-born white Trump supporters. I'd rather spend my time in a cemetery, talking to zombies (not that there is much difference). I found more ambition, curiosity and vitality in dirt-poor Chinese villages than in these places with fifteen churches, no library, and two diners serving fat food that rots your brain and destroys your body. I often think how the only way to revitalize these towns (some of them situated in beautiful places that could be a magnet for tourism) is by bringing in loads of immigrants.
491
Bravo! Bravo! Bravo, I can't tell you how refresing it is to read this perspective from a conservative columnist, amplifying several points raised by J. D. Vance in "Hillbilly Elegy." But our native-born ennui is hardly limited to folks we like to call hillbillies.
Among vast swaths of native-born white Americans we have an angry, defensive, bigoted, even lethal core of citizens who beat their chests and wrap themselves in the American flag while more ambitious newcomers speed past them, eating their lunch and behaving as real patriots.
The solutions? Drive them out; make America so ugly that enterprising young foreigners no longer choose to come here, and vault into power politicians like Donald Trump and Steve King who represent their shriveled, defeatist spirits. We can take solace in kniwing that Britain follows us close behind.
Among vast swaths of native-born white Americans we have an angry, defensive, bigoted, even lethal core of citizens who beat their chests and wrap themselves in the American flag while more ambitious newcomers speed past them, eating their lunch and behaving as real patriots.
The solutions? Drive them out; make America so ugly that enterprising young foreigners no longer choose to come here, and vault into power politicians like Donald Trump and Steve King who represent their shriveled, defeatist spirits. We can take solace in kniwing that Britain follows us close behind.
418
Ahhhh, Trump and the horse he rode in on.
I picture God looking down at one of his/her lesser efforts and wondering:
"Man…what came over me that day. I only had, what, a couple glasses of wine… oh well… but somebody in quality control is gonna get a a call from me!"
God smiles on the author of this well written and researched article.
I wish, in one of his many interviews, a journalist would directly challenge the president on just one of his misguided assumptions and really pit bull him till he had to face known reality…publicly.
This article could provide the foundation.
I picture God looking down at one of his/her lesser efforts and wondering:
"Man…what came over me that day. I only had, what, a couple glasses of wine… oh well… but somebody in quality control is gonna get a a call from me!"
God smiles on the author of this well written and researched article.
I wish, in one of his many interviews, a journalist would directly challenge the president on just one of his misguided assumptions and really pit bull him till he had to face known reality…publicly.
This article could provide the foundation.
126
In an attempt to pull off a Swift, Stephens fails miserably. Ableist, corporatist, and Christianist, he uses all the old oppressions to seem intelligent and compassionate. If only one could laud his 'help' for immigrants; by calling such persons 'illegal,' he compounds his heartless insidiousness. This 'opinion' is embarrassing and sinister.
63
I speak of Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations. Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history, they are the stagnant pool in which our national prospects risk drowning.
Hmmm. Sounds like Trump supporters to me. I'm all for deportation of these deplorables.
Hmmm. Sounds like Trump supporters to me. I'm all for deportation of these deplorables.
157
I think this is a wonderful idea. I must say I'm not sure why "religious piety" has a position in citizenship ranking, but on the rest I'm totally with you! But yes, the pesky problem of who would take these fine specimens with their cute little MAGA caps.....hmmm. Syria seems a little light in the citizenry department lately, maybe that's a possibility? Also, they have no use for the Paris Accord either. Match made in heaven? I think so!
102
Great column and terrific points to consider. I for one am deporting myself to Germany where I can live as a spouse to an EU citizen. I am leaving because I feel surrounded by trump Orcs who were called from their caves and I know they are not going back. I see more shootings, more ugly cultural clashes of very hate filled rhetoric of us vs them. I am sick of flag waving morons who have no clue what the constitution bill of rights are other than the right to own a gun to shoot someone. I joke with my Munich in-laws that I will be an American refugee living in Germany where the rule of law still exists. Every time I visit Germany I see intelligence and a willingness to listen. I see state sponsored free education through college or trade schools and know that people can read & write with critical thinking skills. Something that is hit or miss in the US when dealing with Americans.
(Once in a call about health insurance coverage overseas I was asked by the Tenn rep if they spoke english in the UK)
Even if trump resigns or quits the war between the have and the have not's will continue through people like Murdoch or the Koch brothers inserting themselves in the most Malevolent malicious, hostile, evil-minded ways in order to maintain their vast wealth. I see parallels between the rise of National Socialism in pre-war Germany and alt right groups forming in this country today. Trump is more of a clown than a Hitler but give the Koch brothers time they can fix that.
(Once in a call about health insurance coverage overseas I was asked by the Tenn rep if they spoke english in the UK)
Even if trump resigns or quits the war between the have and the have not's will continue through people like Murdoch or the Koch brothers inserting themselves in the most Malevolent malicious, hostile, evil-minded ways in order to maintain their vast wealth. I see parallels between the rise of National Socialism in pre-war Germany and alt right groups forming in this country today. Trump is more of a clown than a Hitler but give the Koch brothers time they can fix that.
245
Oh, snap! I see what you did there! You want the Basket of Deplorables to leave the US to the adorable immigrants. Keep it up. Liberal division politics will make America great again, I'm sure.
76
Immigrants from another country or in case of India, people moving between culturally, and in many other ways, vastly different states -it is the same.
The ones that really wanted to DO something with their lives, moves to follow opportunities. The ones that stay back, often stagnate and get strange notions of false pride in turning down jobs--"too below us. Get those guys from X/Y/Z state. They'll do anything!"--followed by the cheap smirk of a loser.
Funnily, said loser, when finally forced by the family to earn his bread, moves to another state to take up the same kind of or even "worse" job. And does it well.
The ones that really wanted to DO something with their lives, moves to follow opportunities. The ones that stay back, often stagnate and get strange notions of false pride in turning down jobs--"too below us. Get those guys from X/Y/Z state. They'll do anything!"--followed by the cheap smirk of a loser.
Funnily, said loser, when finally forced by the family to earn his bread, moves to another state to take up the same kind of or even "worse" job. And does it well.
34
One of my most memorable experiences was attending my husband's naturalization ceremony. When the soon to be new citizens were asked to raise their hands to take the oath a gentlemen from Central America raised his arm so high with such a smile that it brought tears to my eyes. This is the America I want to live in and love - not the "send them back" version.
174
Yep, you’re right, Mr. Stephens. We nonimmigrants are stagnating. Our young people in rural areas, small towns, and inner cities are locked into an old person’s world of unflexed muscles, unthinking minds, and near horizons.
We need churn!
Once, we had world wars that rousted our young people from their mundane communities to expose them to different ethnicities, vibrant lifestyles, challenges to body and mind, and appreciation of the immensity of possibilities offered by our nation and the world.
Could we recreate the churn without suffering the casualties of war?
We need churn!
Once, we had world wars that rousted our young people from their mundane communities to expose them to different ethnicities, vibrant lifestyles, challenges to body and mind, and appreciation of the immensity of possibilities offered by our nation and the world.
Could we recreate the churn without suffering the casualties of war?
87
A modest proposal, eh Mr. Stephens?
A rather naughty article, and a good read. Nicely done! I got a good chuckle this very warm Saturday morning.
A rather naughty article, and a good read. Nicely done! I got a good chuckle this very warm Saturday morning.
54
I believe the undesirables you want to deport are called Trump voters.
142
Rather than have meltdowns such as this column or Kumbayas, as Congress holds hands, it may be more beneficial to search for root causes.
In fact, that should not be too strenuous a task since we know what most of them are.
Forgive me, being a zero-th generation immigrant, for not being on top of my American history, but the despicable idea (inherited for somewhere) of slavery implemented in several states started a destructive process which is at the core of a few present issues. Wasn't the Civil War principally due to that? But, just like the Germans at the end of WWI, thinking that they had been mistreated at the Armistice, decided to prepare for round 2, here the "southern" brotherhood is apparently boiling and itching over.
I guess it is time for a "booster" shot that is going to keep us busy for a while.
It just goes to show you how a seemingly innocuous idea in the 1600's and 1700's has slowly built into a bottled-up hurricane.
Apparently nobody is packing their bags so in addition to opening new prisons, we will be building new cemeteries in the near future. Sometime there is nothing left but the excision of the tumor. Thankfully there is more people interested in moving in the 21st century, so eventually we will prevail.
Let us get to work!
In fact, that should not be too strenuous a task since we know what most of them are.
Forgive me, being a zero-th generation immigrant, for not being on top of my American history, but the despicable idea (inherited for somewhere) of slavery implemented in several states started a destructive process which is at the core of a few present issues. Wasn't the Civil War principally due to that? But, just like the Germans at the end of WWI, thinking that they had been mistreated at the Armistice, decided to prepare for round 2, here the "southern" brotherhood is apparently boiling and itching over.
I guess it is time for a "booster" shot that is going to keep us busy for a while.
It just goes to show you how a seemingly innocuous idea in the 1600's and 1700's has slowly built into a bottled-up hurricane.
Apparently nobody is packing their bags so in addition to opening new prisons, we will be building new cemeteries in the near future. Sometime there is nothing left but the excision of the tumor. Thankfully there is more people interested in moving in the 21st century, so eventually we will prevail.
Let us get to work!
33
Ah yes, the whole idea of stereotyping and scapegoating doesn't seem so righteous and fair when those with the scolding fingers realize they're staring at a mirror. An insightful opinion piece.
52
A modest proposal but I'm sure that was what you were going for. If the comment section is nothing else, we're Swift.
22
I get the joke and intent of the article, but I still was infuriated at the even joking mention of 'religious piety' as a genuinely positive attribute, right up there with law-abiding entrepreneurs. It's 2017. How on Earth do we still have people who firmly believe in the fringe cults of the early Roman Empire? Imagine your reaction if you met a devotee of Mithras, or someone who, at the very least, acknowledged the supremacy of Jupiter. What would your reaction be? How is a Christian any different?
141
Test the current administration and Congressional leaders on how American government is meant to work and they'll be the first ones we put on the boat.
80
Tha article points to some important facts which are important to recognize. But the joke is a bit strong because it expresses animosity of the kind that is worse than the problem it tries to explain. Close to hate in the use of deportation as a means of disposal. That's ugly, specially to anyone who knows what deportation really means, whether done by the nazis to cleanse themselves or anyone else. Please, reconsider the way to address the problem and offer solutions - education, incentives, just distribution of resources - not recrimination and threat.
24
Mr. Stephens: The Republican Party perpetuates a public that is ill informed and unhealthy - these people you speak of. You and the likes of you have convinced these voters that you are helping them with inferior education and less healthcare.....less taxes of course. You have convinced them that their enemy is the new immigrant in the neighborhood or the person who worships God in a different way. Shame on you.
43
What a horrible idea. We are a nation of immigrants, not old white guys.
14
Yep, lazy whites with no college looking for a factory job or better yet disability payments see themselves as "real Americans." We could deport them, yes, but does any other country really deserve that?
53
I started out outraged but got your point and agree 100% with the conclusions. It always strikes me as despicable that members of groups that were reviled when they arrived - Irish, Italians, Poles, Jews (there are a few) - should have adopted the bigotry of those who reviled their grandparents or greatgrandparents and take the opportunity to mention it when I see it happening.
Unless one is Native American, we are ALL immigrants, even those WASPs.
Unless one is Native American, we are ALL immigrants, even those WASPs.
493
Not to worry, Bret Stephens. In the interests of innovation, efficiency, and progress, we'll all transmogrify into cyborgs and robots soon enough. Better, faster, stronger, smarter. Then we'll all be deported, permanently. All of us. It's really just a matter of who'll be the last ones left strutting their hour on the stage. It may not be fair (like the tax code -- remember? -- from your last "conversation"). Perhaps those "useless" nonimmigrant Americans are our best chance at surviving a little longer?
Native Americans -- we sure got rid of them to make room for us, didn't we? But then, they were a bunch of nonimmigrant dopes, right? And all the Americans who fought and died in wars to protect this country? Let's hope they could pass the citizenship test, or what good were they?
Maybe Americans, of all sorts, and humans -- we're just not good enough. It's fundamentally in our nature to destroy ourselves. You know, in the interests of advancement and efficiency.
Native Americans -- we sure got rid of them to make room for us, didn't we? But then, they were a bunch of nonimmigrant dopes, right? And all the Americans who fought and died in wars to protect this country? Let's hope they could pass the citizenship test, or what good were they?
Maybe Americans, of all sorts, and humans -- we're just not good enough. It's fundamentally in our nature to destroy ourselves. You know, in the interests of advancement and efficiency.
18
You've got my vote to mass-deport all who didn't vote against Donald Trump's ugly campaign threats. What kind of sadists were they, actually wanting passage of such laws, or just enjoying others regularly being threatened?
Another tone to your point is that immigrant parents are often more personally invested in the idea that their kids should do the right thing, and more connected to and responsible for non-nuclear family both here and abroad, than nonimmigrants.
The "real Americans" are the ones who appreciate most what this country actually does have to offer and who make the most effort to contribute to that.
Broadly speaking, nonimmigrants nitpick over black/white and right/left concepts, complain how bad they have it and blame other groups for their problems. Immigrants know it could be a lot worse because often a lot worse is what they came from. They know what these words we throw around really mean; they earned a better life before they got here and they earn it anew day in and day out.
Go easy with the "self-multiplying" and even the "God-fearing," though, that's all too often where you guys come off the rails. Sometimes it seems like the more kids someone has, the less likely they are to be able to deal with who each one of them truly turns out to be, much less help each one achieve their fullest potential as that.
And if only we could stop fearing God and the godlessness we perceive in one another and start loving God and the God that truly is in one another.
Another tone to your point is that immigrant parents are often more personally invested in the idea that their kids should do the right thing, and more connected to and responsible for non-nuclear family both here and abroad, than nonimmigrants.
The "real Americans" are the ones who appreciate most what this country actually does have to offer and who make the most effort to contribute to that.
Broadly speaking, nonimmigrants nitpick over black/white and right/left concepts, complain how bad they have it and blame other groups for their problems. Immigrants know it could be a lot worse because often a lot worse is what they came from. They know what these words we throw around really mean; they earned a better life before they got here and they earn it anew day in and day out.
Go easy with the "self-multiplying" and even the "God-fearing," though, that's all too often where you guys come off the rails. Sometimes it seems like the more kids someone has, the less likely they are to be able to deal with who each one of them truly turns out to be, much less help each one achieve their fullest potential as that.
And if only we could stop fearing God and the godlessness we perceive in one another and start loving God and the God that truly is in one another.
22
Bret Stephens better be very careful. The non-achieving, born and bred American bigots he rightly singles out for criticism comprise the core group of Donald Trump’s working-class supporters. At least Stephens did not make Hillary Clinton’s mistake of using the word “deplorables.” The know-nothings use that term as a badge of honor, as they wallow in their unproductive victimhood.
34
Brett is right many long term Americans have gotten soft, lazy and entitled. Legal and I stress legal immigration is good for our country, it revitalizes the workforce, instills new ideas and innovation, illegal immigration hurts our country so this last point where I disagree with Mr. Stephens. Is Mr. Stephens suggesting open borders? Seems like he is and if you don't agree with his opinion you're a bigot, racist or some sort of phobe. Every country has the right to control who comes to their country, it is a privilege to come to any country and especially ours and respect for our laws no matter what you think of them is a must. His modest proposal of deportation is a symptom of our political climate of extremes. We need to get together and first and foremost do what's best for our country and it's citizens and calling each other names, looking down on voters you don't understand or hold contempt for is not going to help us find a solution. The solution is in the middle, not on the extremes and enforcement not enforcement of laws you like is a must.
19
Bravo to the Times' new Conservative columnist!!
14
This column deserves a Pulitzer prize for commentary.
13
I asked a Trump supporter if he was proud to be an American. His answer was an angry, indignant "YES". I asked if he was born here. Another yes.
I gave my opinion that pride should be reserved for accomplishments.
Somebody who comes here with no friends, no family, no money and no English, who puts their head down, keeps their nose clean, works hard, learns English and eventually achieves citizenship in the greatest country this world has ever seen can be proud to be an American. Somebody who just drew the lucky straw needs to do something to be proud of.
Dan Kravitz
I gave my opinion that pride should be reserved for accomplishments.
Somebody who comes here with no friends, no family, no money and no English, who puts their head down, keeps their nose clean, works hard, learns English and eventually achieves citizenship in the greatest country this world has ever seen can be proud to be an American. Somebody who just drew the lucky straw needs to do something to be proud of.
Dan Kravitz
75
Along these lines, we could start a program that would require the American-born who want to be leaders in this country to take civics tests. I am guessing that many Americans who are currently leading this country (I am using the verb loosely) wouldn't perform as well on a required civics test (American government, American history, principles of the constitution, that sort of thing) as the immigrants who have to take and pass similar tests when applying for citizenship.
I have thought, many times, that our current cabinet might fail such a test....and I have been certain that our president would.
I have thought, many times, that our current cabinet might fail such a test....and I have been certain that our president would.
39
Thanks for your unconvential honesty and not scapegoating recent immigrants.
6
Great article. Lots of truth, honesty and clarity, but who is listening? Does anyone in power these days read anything of truth or intelligence? If so, I can't find that person. This country's leadership is so "out to lunch" that I can only shake my head in disbelief and anger.
18
When Mr. Stephens was editor of the Jerusalem Post, did he write similar editorials about how Israel can only be saved by lots of non-Jewish immigration?
If not, why not?
If not, why not?
31
Mr. Stephens, you're preachin' to the choir here. Breitbart/Fox/Newsmax readers need to see this more than your average NYT reader.
32
Finally, a Stephens column I could agree with. Well, not the column, which is his usual senseless garbage, but the headline "Only Mass Deportation will Save America". Unfortunately, most Republicans are not immigrants so you cannot deport them all. But it is a nice idea, isn't it?
5
The author should have gone full-Swift; satire need not identify itself as a "joke".
8
I was with you until you got to religious piety.
28
You think I should be deported because I do not believe in God? You would deport people who do believe in God if they are not Christian? Listen to yourself. You want a religious litmus test for being a US citizen?
34
Bret ignores the elephant in the room. The problem is neither with immigrants nor with "lazy entititled Americans". The problem is with the multi-millionaire rentier class who fee they are entitled to exercise control over the government and amass incredible wealth while denying healthcare, education and financial stability to the rest of us. They play off "Americans" against immigrants as a form of distraction. Let's not be distracted.
95
It would be so much more useful if Mr. Stephens wrote this kind of opinion pieces from the columns of the Wall Street Journal, the paper that employed him until a few weeks ago. Would they let him do so?
23
As legal immigrant, I want to protest against the constant conflation of legal and illegal immigrants.
The illegal immigrants are people and they do have rights. But in the matter of immigration, they are no different from someone who got an A by cheating on the final.
Maybe he loves his mother and he is good in some other ways.
But that A should be removed from his transcript.
The illegal immigrants are people and they do have rights. But in the matter of immigration, they are no different from someone who got an A by cheating on the final.
Maybe he loves his mother and he is good in some other ways.
But that A should be removed from his transcript.
38
The problem is not legal immigrants the problem is ILLEGAL ALIENS.
A very big difference.
A very big difference.
37
"That used to be a cliché, but in the Age of Trump it needs to be explained all over again. We’re a country of immigrants..."
Ok Bret, it is a cliché, especially if one forgets that so is Australia and Israel among others, who have reasonable well-enforced immigration policies. If they can do it, so can we.
So yes, we're in agreement, deport all illegals, criminals, non-working, and unhealthy, then start all over, following in Australia's footsteps. Let's make America great again and for all eternity!!!!!
Ok Bret, it is a cliché, especially if one forgets that so is Australia and Israel among others, who have reasonable well-enforced immigration policies. If they can do it, so can we.
So yes, we're in agreement, deport all illegals, criminals, non-working, and unhealthy, then start all over, following in Australia's footsteps. Let's make America great again and for all eternity!!!!!
14
Mildly interesting, in the standard middle-brow, dumbing-down of the Times these days ... until the final paragraph exposed the curdled self-absorption of the writer:
"Because I’m the child of immigrants and grew up abroad, I have always thought of the United States as a country that belongs first to its newcomers"
And you thought that based on what cockamamie idea? The country belongs more to you than the Native American whose dignity history has so challenged? Or perhaps more than the African American whose ancestry here predates Plymouth Rock? Or more than maybe just the average white guy living his life and working and doing the best he can?
This kind of factional sense of entitlement is precisely the tragic nonsense that delivered to the White House our current clown.
"Because I’m the child of immigrants and grew up abroad, I have always thought of the United States as a country that belongs first to its newcomers"
And you thought that based on what cockamamie idea? The country belongs more to you than the Native American whose dignity history has so challenged? Or perhaps more than the African American whose ancestry here predates Plymouth Rock? Or more than maybe just the average white guy living his life and working and doing the best he can?
This kind of factional sense of entitlement is precisely the tragic nonsense that delivered to the White House our current clown.
31
Another conservative who can't see beyond the tip of nose. As if we don't have enough of those types yet.
7
Maybe we need to deport columnists who make stupid suggestions (just kidding, who would take them anyway?). The US needs to defend its borders for a number of critical reasons and deportation is a legitimate and necessary tool in that endeavor. But we all know that.
21
Yours was fabulous. You have stated categorically that the GOP members should be deported.
10
Growth or economic death. One day capitalism, as we know it, will be the monster that we can't stop feeding. That is the real story. Can a country prosper with a quarlity life style without chasing demographic growth for cheap labor and higher consumption?
8
I think mass deportation, whether of native-born or foreign-born people, is harsh, but I get your point.
What is troubling is the resentment of the successes of immigrants and their children by some native-born Americans, especially after Trump's rise to power.
Steve Bannon, for example, seems to have an issue with Asian Americans' success in Silicon Valley. He had said, “When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think…," implying that it is not good. Bannon, his error in numbers (the number is much lower) and prejudices notwithstanding, now has a major position in the White House.
It is not just Bannon, of course. As with the "Junior Nobel Prize," the children of immigrants do well on the national spelling bee, which has generated tweets such as “The kids in the spelling bee should only be AMERICAN.” http://wapo.st/1KigCZv? The problem with that tweet is that it is not only racist but ignorant, for most of these children, if not all, are born in the the US and therefore ARE American.
Speaking of ignorance, a troubling percentage of the native-born Americans would have trouble getting a passing score on the civics questions in the naturalization test that immigrants must pass to become US citizens. http://civicsquestions.com/all/?q=1
Instead of mass deportation, there should be efforts made to deal with the ignorance and prejudice that is still quite prevalent among a good many Americans.
What is troubling is the resentment of the successes of immigrants and their children by some native-born Americans, especially after Trump's rise to power.
Steve Bannon, for example, seems to have an issue with Asian Americans' success in Silicon Valley. He had said, “When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think…," implying that it is not good. Bannon, his error in numbers (the number is much lower) and prejudices notwithstanding, now has a major position in the White House.
It is not just Bannon, of course. As with the "Junior Nobel Prize," the children of immigrants do well on the national spelling bee, which has generated tweets such as “The kids in the spelling bee should only be AMERICAN.” http://wapo.st/1KigCZv? The problem with that tweet is that it is not only racist but ignorant, for most of these children, if not all, are born in the the US and therefore ARE American.
Speaking of ignorance, a troubling percentage of the native-born Americans would have trouble getting a passing score on the civics questions in the naturalization test that immigrants must pass to become US citizens. http://civicsquestions.com/all/?q=1
Instead of mass deportation, there should be efforts made to deal with the ignorance and prejudice that is still quite prevalent among a good many Americans.
16
Mr Trump is himself a descendant of German immigrants. His wife is an immigrant from Slovenia. His first wife was a Czech migrant. So what, is he going to deport his own family? How many double standards does it take to run America?
14
"...don't work hard, don't believe in God, don't contribute much to society and don't appreciate the greatness of the American system."
Sounds like a fairly apt description of Donald J Trump.
Sounds like a fairly apt description of Donald J Trump.
22
A good piece, except for the God stuff. The loudest of the so-called faithful are threatening our future by rejecting science, women's rights, and true equality. America's special breed of fundamentalist Christian crazy has meant that less God equals more sanity, as the God most Americans believe in is a nationalist, violent xenophobe who sees women as men's possessions. Give me a country of skeptics any day!
31
This column is most pertinent, and perhaps slightly reminiscent of Jonathan Swift. The first boat might be loaded with Fox News watchers!
9
I normally disagree with this author pretty vehemently, even wondering how he can conclude what he does, so while I was reading this column, I was wondering why I was doing the opposite and strongly agreeing with him (except for the religious stuff. As a citizen of the US AND the daughter of a minister, I plead with the right wing, can we please keep religion out of government and public life?). And then I got to the end and realized why he wasn't sounding like he usually does, a staunch American conservative: because HE is a child of immigrants. The right wing always turns "left" when they are personally affected, but until them, the GOP and the American right wing, as a group, have turned cruel toward anyone with whom they cannot personally identify. Look at Trickle-down, health care, minimum wage, wages in general, job benefits, medical research, abortion, etc., etc., etc. Right-wingers are against it all...until THEY are personally affected. Nancy Reagan was notoriously the outlier in the stem cell research matter amongst the right. Why? Because her beloved husband was suffering from Alzheimer's.
In the abortion debate, for example, how many times have we seen it revealed that a right-winger shrieking about the horrors of abortion, either had one or more herself or procured one for a mistress, girlfriend or wife? Many times. The anagram IOKIYAR was coined for a reason.
In the abortion debate, for example, how many times have we seen it revealed that a right-winger shrieking about the horrors of abortion, either had one or more herself or procured one for a mistress, girlfriend or wife? Many times. The anagram IOKIYAR was coined for a reason.
18
It really is an interesting thought exercise to imagine an America with all the Trump supporters suddenly gone. Kind of like opening the windows to a fresh morning in spring.
25
I was born in America as were my parents. The way things are now in the US I would love to be deported!!!!! Please deport me to France. Thank you.
24
So what I'm hearing is immigrants are ok as long as they adhere to being Christian, are married and have children. Wow you are really out of touch! I personally like all immigrants of all religions. I'm am an agnostic, white woman, not married, no children ( I don't want children)with a house and a career! How do you like those apples??
13
Interesting how many people are missing the point of this *satire*, particularly those getting upset at the reference to Christianity.
Folks, Stephens is pointing out *to critics of immigration* that immigrants are "better" Americans than native ones, *even by the standards of those* who consider Christianity a sine qua non of Americanism...
Folks, Stephens is pointing out *to critics of immigration* that immigrants are "better" Americans than native ones, *even by the standards of those* who consider Christianity a sine qua non of Americanism...
24
Love it! Thank you!
Now we have ammunition to fight the good fight with!!!!!
Now we have ammunition to fight the good fight with!!!!!
3
I've been living in this country now for 13 years and I just don't understand how people can be poor here .
Everywhere l look I see immense opportunities , when I heard GOD BLESS AMERICA , my thought on that is HE already did
Everywhere l look I see immense opportunities , when I heard GOD BLESS AMERICA , my thought on that is HE already did
14
Oh, I get it. When you say, "Americans who don’t get it should get out," you mean those people might see immigration differently than you do because you didn't grow up here? Or, do you mean that Barabara Streisand should move to Canada like she said she would when Trump was elected? Or, better yet ... deport these lazy Americans you are speaking of to Canada? They will take anybody. Maybe you mean that the American government has failed its own citizens by not helping them develop themselves as citizens of the country they live in already? Maybe you could show me any country where it "belongs first to its newcomers." Or, how about trying to become a citizen of New Zealand or Australia where immigration laws are much more liberal (not). Finally, maybe you could just broaden your perspective a bit and be inclusive of those with whom you think are not worthy enough to be included in your America.
10
How often during DT's reign I wished I could 'self-deport' to the land of my ancestors, but it's doubtful they'd have me now. (Yes, I have looked into it.)
7
I am completely in favor of mass deportations. Let's start with 3rd generation, no-class real estate landlords from Queens. Then let's move on to deport everyone - EVERYONE - who voted for Trump!
19
Loyalty to your country includes loyalty to your countrymen. I value the most ignorant, shiftless, bankrupt, drug-addled and otherwise flawed American over the most brilliant, industrious, innovative illegal alien every time. The former is my fellow countryman; the later is a detestable, cheating, trespassing interloper.
Does that clear things up for you, Mr. Stephens?
Does that clear things up for you, Mr. Stephens?
6
Hear hear.
I was at a wedding of a family member near NYC recently. 400 odd people from one tiny community from a far away land, all immigrants. We all came penniless, love America with passion. Our boys are fighting to get into US military and still keep our traditions. Large number of physicians, engineers, scientists, doctorates. Dependence on the US government in terms of entitlement = zero. We are democrats and republicans, and major tax payers. Despite being the most affluent community in the US, we have zero political power.
Although we are from a totally different country, and follow a different faith, we have been getting substance since 9/11. To the rural and southern whites, and one too many who live in the burbs, we all look the same. I see you cringe when I walk into the airplane. I know what you think you see.
So let me tell you my fellow Americans, whom I love, what I see when I see y you. Are you the welfare queen I am supporting with my taxes? I can see that rural and southern whites make a negative net contribution to the economy, and disproportionately believe in anti-science dogma, and have stood for everything that prevents progress (and are now embracing with vigor, Nazi tactics of torch burning and red confederate flag waving).
And you want me gone?
Nope. In my 30 odd years here, I have paid more taxes than about five of you, committed no crimes, demanded nothing, earned everything. Why don't you get a job?
Kalidan
I was at a wedding of a family member near NYC recently. 400 odd people from one tiny community from a far away land, all immigrants. We all came penniless, love America with passion. Our boys are fighting to get into US military and still keep our traditions. Large number of physicians, engineers, scientists, doctorates. Dependence on the US government in terms of entitlement = zero. We are democrats and republicans, and major tax payers. Despite being the most affluent community in the US, we have zero political power.
Although we are from a totally different country, and follow a different faith, we have been getting substance since 9/11. To the rural and southern whites, and one too many who live in the burbs, we all look the same. I see you cringe when I walk into the airplane. I know what you think you see.
So let me tell you my fellow Americans, whom I love, what I see when I see y you. Are you the welfare queen I am supporting with my taxes? I can see that rural and southern whites make a negative net contribution to the economy, and disproportionately believe in anti-science dogma, and have stood for everything that prevents progress (and are now embracing with vigor, Nazi tactics of torch burning and red confederate flag waving).
And you want me gone?
Nope. In my 30 odd years here, I have paid more taxes than about five of you, committed no crimes, demanded nothing, earned everything. Why don't you get a job?
Kalidan
63
I should perhaps point out that any attempt to ship your Puritans, Methodists Baptists, witch burners etc., back to the UK will be met with extreme force. Why do you think we shipped them out in the first place?
26
Oh, you sound like just another Trump basher-hater. Taking on Trump and his loyal, mesmerized base. What courage.
Yeah, it takes real guts to take on those lesser folk you deem unworthy. Watch out. They hold grudges. They're angry, right-wing and loud.
And if they read your column in your failing newspaper, they'll no doubt identify. But, hand it to you. Take on people you don't know and make them your very own stereotype.
It's quite amusing that the people you describe, i.e., who don't work "hard" or believe in God, don't contribute to society, don't appreciate America, are ignorant of the law and history, maybe criminals, all perfectly describe your party's members and especially your president.
Trouble is where to send them back to? Maybe find a very large rock and something to lift it.
Yeah, it takes real guts to take on those lesser folk you deem unworthy. Watch out. They hold grudges. They're angry, right-wing and loud.
And if they read your column in your failing newspaper, they'll no doubt identify. But, hand it to you. Take on people you don't know and make them your very own stereotype.
It's quite amusing that the people you describe, i.e., who don't work "hard" or believe in God, don't contribute to society, don't appreciate America, are ignorant of the law and history, maybe criminals, all perfectly describe your party's members and especially your president.
Trouble is where to send them back to? Maybe find a very large rock and something to lift it.
9
There is a vital truth behind Bret's tongue-in-cheek.
What makes this country great is that once you take the oath of citizenship you are equal under law to every other citizen, and subject to the same laws. This is not true elsewhere. This equality is the essence of freedom.
What makes this country great is that once you take the oath of citizenship you are equal under law to every other citizen, and subject to the same laws. This is not true elsewhere. This equality is the essence of freedom.
6
Let's start with kicking out of our country Trump, his adult children, his crooked son in law, and the members of his staff and cabinet. I'm sure Trump's dictator buddies Putin, Erdogan, Sisi, and the Saudis will take them.
28
The REAL immigration controversy is not about "who belongs here." The author knows that. The REAL controversy is about:
1. Who has a right, under law, to be here.
2. Whether officials will DO THEIR JOBS, and enforce the law, instead of arrogantly facilitating anarchy.
Don't like some law? There's a procedure for changing it. Ignoring it / breaking it is NOT part of that procedure.
1. Who has a right, under law, to be here.
2. Whether officials will DO THEIR JOBS, and enforce the law, instead of arrogantly facilitating anarchy.
Don't like some law? There's a procedure for changing it. Ignoring it / breaking it is NOT part of that procedure.
18
Another bunch of people I'd like to give the boot are Americans who don't pay their fair share of taxes, the ones who hide money in foreign bank accounts or just game the IRS system to pay almost nothing relative to their income and wealth. We could start by looking at the guy in The White House.
48
I can't get past the first paragraph.
2
All I had to do was get through a few of the comments here to see so many are missing the point. It is not about you, or really, even about American grandchildren of immigrants. Relax. He's turning Conservative talking points on their heads. You can do the same about fiscal efficiency, or any of the other flash points in the litany of right-wing chatter.
I could gone without the God reference, but the rest is solid statistical data in support of immigration.
I think the Founding Fathers' greatest gift to American greatness was leaving out an "official" language. In 100 years, we could be speaking a hybrid of Spanish, Mandarin, and English. The language may be called, simply, "American" and it should never be static because dynamic nations falter when they become entropic.
We can't put a placeholder in history and say, "this is best 'America'" let's keeps thing like this. When we do that, we stop being true to our immigrant ancestors and "America" joins the dust pile of other once-great, but now mediocre, nations.
I could gone without the God reference, but the rest is solid statistical data in support of immigration.
I think the Founding Fathers' greatest gift to American greatness was leaving out an "official" language. In 100 years, we could be speaking a hybrid of Spanish, Mandarin, and English. The language may be called, simply, "American" and it should never be static because dynamic nations falter when they become entropic.
We can't put a placeholder in history and say, "this is best 'America'" let's keeps thing like this. When we do that, we stop being true to our immigrant ancestors and "America" joins the dust pile of other once-great, but now mediocre, nations.
14
Nice article, Mr. Stephens, both in its own right and judging by the amount and volume of indignant squawking and "Well, I never!"
7
What an appallingly arrogant and presumptuous column.
Mr. Stephens has set himself up as would-be omnipotent judge of who is good enough to be an American.
Lazy, directionless and even criminal people come from every ethnic group and immigrant status. There non-productive immigrants and drug-addicted whites in rural America whose roots in the country go back generations.
By his criteria, Donald Trump would be among the first to be deported. An exceptionally repulsive scam artist and almost certainly a criminal, the nation would benefit enormously if he were sent back to Germany.
Mr. Stephens has set himself up as would-be omnipotent judge of who is good enough to be an American.
Lazy, directionless and even criminal people come from every ethnic group and immigrant status. There non-productive immigrants and drug-addicted whites in rural America whose roots in the country go back generations.
By his criteria, Donald Trump would be among the first to be deported. An exceptionally repulsive scam artist and almost certainly a criminal, the nation would benefit enormously if he were sent back to Germany.
5
Hey. We all know that immigrants do the jobs that many Americans wouldn't.
Otherwise why would Donald Trump have had three foreign born wives?
Otherwise why would Donald Trump have had three foreign born wives?
59
I don't think the people in the countries whence those Americans' families came want them back. Seriously. In my lifetime I have seen Americans go from being a people one welcomed and admired to one reviled in most other western - read European - nations. There was a change of attitude when Bill Clinton was President, but not really when Obama was, and once again American attitudes leave the citizens their forebears left behind reeling and disgusted. Not that most of those Americans would care, but they might want to consider why this is. Hint: it's not envy.
3
My daughter is an immigrant in (Berlin) Germany. She gave up on America....Sad.
And of course it was white male and female Americans who elected Trump, with Hillary getting the majority of the minority vote.
9
If only irony were still effective. We're post-irony.
6
Could the people whom you refer to be the descendants of the convicts and waste people sent to colonial America from England?
8
Great insights, supported by facts and data. Maybe we should deport everyone who voted for Trump. They re the ones that keep America from being "Great Again."
13
I agree with much of what Mr. Stephens describes in this editorial. One figure should that be added is that only 55% of eligible voters voted in the 2016 Presidential election. I don't know the break down for first generation citizens vs multi-generation citizens, but collectively this statistic illustrates the pathetic apathy and disengagement that undermines our Democracy and results in the election of a Donald Trump....
11
Stephens makes a few good points, but his suggestion that Americans who don't believe in God should leave the country, is outrageous and dangerous. As an atheist, I would be naturally adverse to this idea, but I am sure there are millions of believers who are also dismayed by Stephen's blatant religious intolerance. If the Gilead of "The Handmaid's Tale" ever becomes a reality, I think Stephens would fit right in!
314
Interesting stats. The pic they paint is of a nation that chews up and spits out the descendants of immigrants in favor of newer, more well-prepared immigrants. Looks like the chances are that YOUR family's cultural roots will be diluted and success story won't last long.
Oh and also, what percentage of the "immigrants" came here as slaves with their families and culture ripped from them? Can we deduct them?
As an immigrant, totally love the spirit of your article. But the roots of the issue need to be addressed.
Oh and also, what percentage of the "immigrants" came here as slaves with their families and culture ripped from them? Can we deduct them?
As an immigrant, totally love the spirit of your article. But the roots of the issue need to be addressed.
6
Bret Stephens, thanks for introducing me to the other Bret Stephens, this one is great. I am here in Saco Maine in my 3d week away from Sweden and I am staying at a 1950s motel built by Italian immigrants and still run by the aging son of one of them and his daughter.
I love that last line, if you are a so called true American who cannot live with new immigrants then leave - but the question is to where.
Have to run
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Just experienced the worst of America yesterday when my daughter drove me across New England starting in Albany. Linear parking lots, motionless driving, and not one single bus between Albany and Saco - incredible. And somewhat high-speed train Albany to Boston - never inAmerica.
I love that last line, if you are a so called true American who cannot live with new immigrants then leave - but the question is to where.
Have to run
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Just experienced the worst of America yesterday when my daughter drove me across New England starting in Albany. Linear parking lots, motionless driving, and not one single bus between Albany and Saco - incredible. And somewhat high-speed train Albany to Boston - never inAmerica.
6
I support the NY Times mission to present a full range of ideas and opinions. I don't think Bret Stephens meets the editorial standards of this paper.
6
Perhaps the most important statistic working against immigrants is that they tend to vote Democratic.
5
This piece should be the WHOLE of the front page! (gets my vote for the best OP of the year to date.)
And from a conservative no less. Bravo!
Conservatism for me lost any attraction for me when Gingrich rose to prominence. He's the guy who killed it, as he ushered in the era of deplorable-campaign rhetoric. Attack and vilify the opponent personally, not policy wise, just as un-American, evil, satanic, etc. And he's helped nurse and mentored far too many deplorable conservatives since - DT being one of them.
(And there was Newt, making the rounds yesterday, not only lying, but forgetting his own history. Re; the claim that POTUS by being POTUS can't obstruct justice.)
Mr. Stephens thank you for this piece. I will be forwarding it to as many people as I can.
And from a conservative no less. Bravo!
Conservatism for me lost any attraction for me when Gingrich rose to prominence. He's the guy who killed it, as he ushered in the era of deplorable-campaign rhetoric. Attack and vilify the opponent personally, not policy wise, just as un-American, evil, satanic, etc. And he's helped nurse and mentored far too many deplorable conservatives since - DT being one of them.
(And there was Newt, making the rounds yesterday, not only lying, but forgetting his own history. Re; the claim that POTUS by being POTUS can't obstruct justice.)
Mr. Stephens thank you for this piece. I will be forwarding it to as many people as I can.
10
It should also be noted that our author, who ridicules, chastises and "boot-straps" to lazy, phony impoverished Americans for not being "enterprising" and "job-creating" enough is the son of an ultra-wealthy chemicals executive. Oh, and he's a climate science denier.
13
I've thought this for a long, long time.
1
Hmmm! Failure to believe in God is a reason for deportation and makes one a bad American?
I think the constitution had something to say about that.
I think the constitution had something to say about that.
18
“Shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history” is correct. I doubt most Americans could pass the test we give our applicants for citizenship, and that wouldn’t be asking much.
Engineering schools, especially at the graduate level, have been struggling for decades to fill their classes with Americans. What do you expect after decades of conservative pundits telling people that education is overrated, that good old American common sense is all that matters? The tactic of conservatives has been to blame every ill of this country on the “east coast over-educated liberal elite” who are destroying the country, a rationale only the ignorant would buy without question. They also bought it when you told them not to expect the government to provide free higher education, only moochers would expect that. Funding for our state universities gets systematically cut, now they are too expensive. Then the mantra started that “not everyone is college material,” which may be true, but how many smart people were you herding like cattle into those pens? Finally, having convinced them that education is worthless, it became necessary to find something else to blame, and immigrants become the target. Now, as a child of immigrants yourself, I’m sure you never engaged in the ‘evil immigrant’ rhetoric, but I’m sure you were happy to go along with it as long as those people voted Republican.
Now you’re calling these people a “stagnant pool.” Oh, the irony.
Engineering schools, especially at the graduate level, have been struggling for decades to fill their classes with Americans. What do you expect after decades of conservative pundits telling people that education is overrated, that good old American common sense is all that matters? The tactic of conservatives has been to blame every ill of this country on the “east coast over-educated liberal elite” who are destroying the country, a rationale only the ignorant would buy without question. They also bought it when you told them not to expect the government to provide free higher education, only moochers would expect that. Funding for our state universities gets systematically cut, now they are too expensive. Then the mantra started that “not everyone is college material,” which may be true, but how many smart people were you herding like cattle into those pens? Finally, having convinced them that education is worthless, it became necessary to find something else to blame, and immigrants become the target. Now, as a child of immigrants yourself, I’m sure you never engaged in the ‘evil immigrant’ rhetoric, but I’m sure you were happy to go along with it as long as those people voted Republican.
Now you’re calling these people a “stagnant pool.” Oh, the irony.
17
"Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history, they are the stagnant pool in which our national prospects risk drowning."
The Trumps?
The Trumps?
17
I love this editorial. My highly successful second generation immigrant father would have agreed with you 100%. He was in both professional recognition, achievements, and earnings, the most successful lawyer in the small Illinois town he lived in. He practiced throughout the state. But growing up I always felt a bit odd. It took me into my adulthood to understand that some of the ignorant "christian" people of our town looked down on my father and me because of his ethnicity. My dad was blackballed from the Country Club for almost 20 years. He got in when he was in his 50's. The thing my father learned about the non-immigrant people was exactly what this article states-- they lacked motivation, constructive direction( despite their faiths), etcetera. He was in a different league. He found their lack of motivation, even in friends he went to college & law school with, pretty shocking. They were okay just plodding along in Daddy's business (sound familiar) which they took over. My dad had zero respect for them. He found most of them laughable, even his friends. The middle American condescencion to "immigrants" is ridiculous. My entitled daughter can't get her act together, but the daughter of her nanny, who just got citizenship, is a successful engineer, making 85K at 27. And she is whip smart, a great reader of books. My dad believesd this was a meritocracy. He loved his state and the law. We need to keep it that way because that is what makes us truly great!
13
The article has some hard truth even though parts of it is exaggerated. At the core, we have to remember that American has the right environment for immigrants and nonimmigrants to take advantage and prosper. One has to be hungry to do well.
I am an immigrant of 30 years and has taken lot of hard work to do well. I am afraid that my kids will become complacent and not have the hunger to build a solid foundation for themselves that will serve them well in the future. I have to remind them that we live in an era of globalization and access to knowledge is now democratized. There is always somebody on the other side of world who is awake and working hard to be competitive. There is no substitute for hard work and to be always hungry to succeed.
I am an immigrant of 30 years and has taken lot of hard work to do well. I am afraid that my kids will become complacent and not have the hunger to build a solid foundation for themselves that will serve them well in the future. I have to remind them that we live in an era of globalization and access to knowledge is now democratized. There is always somebody on the other side of world who is awake and working hard to be competitive. There is no substitute for hard work and to be always hungry to succeed.
9
They are bad, but they are good. Us vs them. Good vs evil. It's called duality. And if we apply this type of judgement too much, it ratchets up the stakes.
What you point to here is how there is a difference in attitude between those are new to the country vs those who have been here for a generation or so. Rather than melodrama, why not take a look at why there might be complacency. How the dream of America still exists for new comers but not for those born, educated and with roots here. I bet we'd find that the Occupy movement had a point we brushed aside too easily.
What you point to here is how there is a difference in attitude between those are new to the country vs those who have been here for a generation or so. Rather than melodrama, why not take a look at why there might be complacency. How the dream of America still exists for new comers but not for those born, educated and with roots here. I bet we'd find that the Occupy movement had a point we brushed aside too easily.
5
These are the same people who voted for Trump, my lad. The Republican Party while refusing to deal with immigration also fosters the anger and resentment towards immigrants and encourages those "true Americans" to vote.
7
I agree with you!!! Can I stay????
7
This is a deceptive piece because many of the bad statistics for "natives" are dragged down by sub-populations within the country which are kept subjugated by discrimination. The main such populations are blacks (descendants of involuntarily imported slaves) and various Hispanics, whose recent ancestors may have been immigrants, although there are others such as actual Native Americans.
The continual mass immigration of low-wage workers actually tends to keep down the standard of living of "natives" on the low end of the economic scale. This kind of immigration increases inequality. One way to reduce this would be to have an actual living minimum wage and enforce it strictly. This would tend to reduce the benefits to profits of bringing in immigrants who are willing to work for the lowest wages. As a matter of fact, enforcing current minimum-wage and other labor laws strictly would probably reduce illegal immigration.
The continual mass immigration of low-wage workers actually tends to keep down the standard of living of "natives" on the low end of the economic scale. This kind of immigration increases inequality. One way to reduce this would be to have an actual living minimum wage and enforce it strictly. This would tend to reduce the benefits to profits of bringing in immigrants who are willing to work for the lowest wages. As a matter of fact, enforcing current minimum-wage and other labor laws strictly would probably reduce illegal immigration.
8
This piece shows a lack of awareness of the environmental impact of large populations including climate change and the immense level of immigration into this country. It also deliberately misleads with statistics, and does not consider the impact of the brain drain on developing countries. In general Stephens argument is based on the premise that the only thing of value is a larger GDP.
As to immigration. We let into this country legally 1 million immigrants a year. Between 1990 and 2010 our population went from apx. 200 million to over 300 million; a 50% increase. Since each Americans carbon footprint is 25 times the worlds average, that is the equivalent of adding more than 1 billion people to the already overcrowded planet with its impact on climate change.
Secondly as to crime statistics it is an unfortunate fact that black crime by US citizens is significantly higher than other groups. Remove those figures and then compute what the much maligned ‘white citizens’ crime rate is.
Thirdly there is circular reasoning here – since we are all immigrants all who came here and developed the country what is to say, that the new immigrants 2nd and 3rd generation would be any different.
4th we can steal away the best and the brightest from foreign countries, but what does that do to their ability to make their countries better.
5th The increase in the overall number of U.S. births is due entirely to births to foreign-born mother – hardly an unqualified good thing.
As to immigration. We let into this country legally 1 million immigrants a year. Between 1990 and 2010 our population went from apx. 200 million to over 300 million; a 50% increase. Since each Americans carbon footprint is 25 times the worlds average, that is the equivalent of adding more than 1 billion people to the already overcrowded planet with its impact on climate change.
Secondly as to crime statistics it is an unfortunate fact that black crime by US citizens is significantly higher than other groups. Remove those figures and then compute what the much maligned ‘white citizens’ crime rate is.
Thirdly there is circular reasoning here – since we are all immigrants all who came here and developed the country what is to say, that the new immigrants 2nd and 3rd generation would be any different.
4th we can steal away the best and the brightest from foreign countries, but what does that do to their ability to make their countries better.
5th The increase in the overall number of U.S. births is due entirely to births to foreign-born mother – hardly an unqualified good thing.
8
> "I speak of Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations. Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law..."
I am shocked that Mr. Stephens, a columnist for the NYT is "shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law."
People who immigrate illegally are not allowed to live here. Obama and Trump cannot give amnesty. The law, The Constitution states that *Congress passes laws* including amnesty. According to The Constitution, The President cannot make laws, but is obligated to *enforce laws made by Congress*.
According to the law, the President cannot legislate, cannot decide not to do his job and not enforce the law.
Public university education has gotten more and more expensive as taxpayer funds have been diverted from universities to pay for K-12 education, healthcare, and university education for illegal immigrants. As a result, poor students are going much more in debt that those a generation before them.
Congress can pass an amnesty law for illegal immigrants if they want. Until they do, we expect The President to follow the law and send the illegal immigrants back home, using the tax money saved to help our own poor to go to university.
Mr. Stephens, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
I am shocked that Mr. Stephens, a columnist for the NYT is "shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law."
People who immigrate illegally are not allowed to live here. Obama and Trump cannot give amnesty. The law, The Constitution states that *Congress passes laws* including amnesty. According to The Constitution, The President cannot make laws, but is obligated to *enforce laws made by Congress*.
According to the law, the President cannot legislate, cannot decide not to do his job and not enforce the law.
Public university education has gotten more and more expensive as taxpayer funds have been diverted from universities to pay for K-12 education, healthcare, and university education for illegal immigrants. As a result, poor students are going much more in debt that those a generation before them.
Congress can pass an amnesty law for illegal immigrants if they want. Until they do, we expect The President to follow the law and send the illegal immigrants back home, using the tax money saved to help our own poor to go to university.
Mr. Stephens, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
7
If America is so great, why does it take but a generation to remove the vigour from its citizens? Something is very wrong with a culture that creates a second generation that has no initiative but demonizes the outsiders that do.
9
"There is a fine line between clever and stupid." Spinal Tap.
This column tries to be clever, it isn't.
This column tries to be clever, it isn't.
4
One of the more clever op-ed pieces I have read in the Times lately. I agree--kick them out and keep them out! On the other hand, I am afraid that a few years of living in the U.S. will corrupt our hard-working, law-abiding, devout immigrants. Before you know it, they will be a bunch of slackers, scofflaws, and lapsed believers like the rest of us!
4
My family has been here since before the American Revolution, and in fact, participated directly in the Revolution as part of Washington's Continental Army and the Culper spy ring, which lately has been dramatized on television. I am fullly educated, fully employed, and fully law abiding, and I'm an atheist. Belief in god in general and Christianity in particular is NOT the only mark of a good citizen, and if you think it is, maybe you're the one who's living in the wrong place.
14
From January of 2001 until June of 2016, I taught seventh-grade Social Studies at a South Los Angeles public middle school at which at least 65% of the student body could be considered "native born". In my last year at that school, forty-two out of a hundred fifteen students received a final grade of F because they did virtually no work.
My district engages in wholesale social promotion until grade nine, and my "students" knew that they could fail every subject and still go to the next grade. They discussed it as both a fact and a strategy. They played on their phones - phone use in class was so ubiquitous we were told to ignore it unless we caught someone looking at pornography - or just sat doing nothing.
I got away from that and for the last year taught at a school where most of the student body either came from another country or are first- or second-generation immigrants. This school is also in the L.A. Unified School District. At the end of the year I had given four grades of F and fourteen grades of D. One of my Fs was to a native-born American.
My story is purely anecdotal, but my experience within the district is common. Every year I read of American natives all across our country who don't know basic American history or basic science facts, and it angers and saddens me.
I echo Mr. Stephens' final thought, and I'm not kidding.
My district engages in wholesale social promotion until grade nine, and my "students" knew that they could fail every subject and still go to the next grade. They discussed it as both a fact and a strategy. They played on their phones - phone use in class was so ubiquitous we were told to ignore it unless we caught someone looking at pornography - or just sat doing nothing.
I got away from that and for the last year taught at a school where most of the student body either came from another country or are first- or second-generation immigrants. This school is also in the L.A. Unified School District. At the end of the year I had given four grades of F and fourteen grades of D. One of my Fs was to a native-born American.
My story is purely anecdotal, but my experience within the district is common. Every year I read of American natives all across our country who don't know basic American history or basic science facts, and it angers and saddens me.
I echo Mr. Stephens' final thought, and I'm not kidding.
8
Really not funny. These people you want to deport vote. The Democrats lose votes every time they hate on these old white people, our fellow citizens, and they vote. There is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. Supporting large numbers of illegal immigrants is basically support for low wages for every laborer, and support to continue the abuses which befall people hiding in shadows. We need both a little more sympathy and action for these deplorables you want to deport, and some rule of law, especially changes to law and regulation (farm worker visas, H1B visas, vetting of refugees), that make this country stable, legal and fair again. Very cute snark, but you're pushing deplorables into a deeper shade of Red.
9
What you may be implying, Mr Stephens, is that just as there is a sentiment in some quarters that immigration should be selective for the best, most educated/qualified, etc, being allowed to stay should be similarly selective. US citizenship (or permanent legal residence) should be made contingent not on accidents of birth, but on annual performance reviews.
Something like what professional ball teams and their farm club systems do. Or what election to high office is supposed to accomplish.
Never mind, of course, the complications in having to review everyone every year to ensure that they still compare favorably to the standards represented by the new applicants seeking entry. Or the complications arising from having to split families according to the deserving vs the undeserving among them.
If we -- and, indeed, the rest of the world -- operated immigration/deportation according to a truly marketized system of annual bidding wars for the best/brightest, this might raise standards across the world.
It could also provide a dramatic solution to our rising tide of incompetent, corrupt politicians: deport them all, along with those who artificially buoy them up -- their sycophants, lobbyists, and dark money supporters.
In their place would be recent immigrants: preferably those not quite secure in their legality.
Deport Donald, in other words; let Melania stay, despite -- or, maybe even because of -- the legal ambiguity surrounding her entry.
Something like what professional ball teams and their farm club systems do. Or what election to high office is supposed to accomplish.
Never mind, of course, the complications in having to review everyone every year to ensure that they still compare favorably to the standards represented by the new applicants seeking entry. Or the complications arising from having to split families according to the deserving vs the undeserving among them.
If we -- and, indeed, the rest of the world -- operated immigration/deportation according to a truly marketized system of annual bidding wars for the best/brightest, this might raise standards across the world.
It could also provide a dramatic solution to our rising tide of incompetent, corrupt politicians: deport them all, along with those who artificially buoy them up -- their sycophants, lobbyists, and dark money supporters.
In their place would be recent immigrants: preferably those not quite secure in their legality.
Deport Donald, in other words; let Melania stay, despite -- or, maybe even because of -- the legal ambiguity surrounding her entry.
Well gosh Bret:
"The United States has too many people who don’t work hard, don’t believe in God, don’t contribute much to society and don’t appreciate the greatness of the American system."
Looks like we'll be starting that deportation with Donald Trump.
I might be with you on this one.
"The United States has too many people who don’t work hard, don’t believe in God, don’t contribute much to society and don’t appreciate the greatness of the American system."
Looks like we'll be starting that deportation with Donald Trump.
I might be with you on this one.
7
Well said. Loved it.
2
Terrible column. The loigic and the arguments are those of a 10 year old... bad bad bad... incredible that the NYT published this...
3
The method for judging includes Christianity. Most Christians in the US, and especially Republican voters, are Fake Christians. Instead of following and living in the teachings of the Jesus, with compassion and generosity to the poor and sick (Trumpcare anyone?), they focus on dogma and twisted logic of hate. BREAKING NEWS: Jesus loved all regardless of perceived sin, Republicans hate most black, gay, muslim, atheist, sick, poor people.
Bret this problem can be solved with strong public education requirement which focus on critical thinking and civics. Your Republican friends and their home schooling is really indoctrination without substance and real world context, and private schooling is really walled gardens of wealth.
Bret this problem can be solved with strong public education requirement which focus on critical thinking and civics. Your Republican friends and their home schooling is really indoctrination without substance and real world context, and private schooling is really walled gardens of wealth.
11
This fellow accurately denotes the correlation of the state of Americans to the enactment of ultra left wing policies since the sixties. And we can do it to immigrants, too! Give us your intelligent, hardworking religious refuse. Come, get fat, dumb, and lazy...we hang our flat screens beside the entrance to our man caves.
2
Very disturbing piece. Sounds like covert attack on minorities trapped in our Dem cities, and Bret S. wants them targeted for removal. Of course they can't be deported, so is he really advocating they be targeted in some other way? Work camps? Concentration camps? Sterilization? "Population" control?
This is one sick opinion piece, but it really provides some insight into progressive thought -- we know better, and you individuals and your rights are just in our way.
This is one sick opinion piece, but it really provides some insight into progressive thought -- we know better, and you individuals and your rights are just in our way.
3
I think you missed the point. He is pointing out that the people who want to deport immigrants are neglecting the fact that we, ourselves, reflect the very things they criticize, more than immigrants do. I don't think he ACTUALLY wants deportations, he's just pointing out that the anti-immigrant rhetoric is based on false assumptions.
4
It's not about the obvious and logical humane reasons. It's about Donald Trump desperately trying to fire up his slowly shrinking tribalist, racist, angry, ignorant base to save his doomed presidency.
Since the moment 2 years ago when he descende his golden escalator, reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl's image of a god-like Hitler descending from the clouds in "Der Triumf des Willen", Trump has fed red meat to his base. But what he didn't recognize is that tactic became ineffective the day AFTER he barely won on a technicality.
And since the inquiry into his campaign and now his current actions have begun, his same methods keep crashing on him.
But, like Einstein's definition of insanity, he keeps repeating the same actions, expecting a better result, but keeps making it worse.
Unfortunately, like Assad, we can assume that there's no limit, no shibboleth, no law, no moral that Trump won't cross or break to hold on to power. We should even prepare for the contingency that he will declare martial law on some "Trumped-up" excuse such as the government running out of money at the end of September.
So, we can expect Trump to be cruel and inhuman about the chilldren of illegal and undocumented aliens.
Since the moment 2 years ago when he descende his golden escalator, reminiscent of Leni Riefenstahl's image of a god-like Hitler descending from the clouds in "Der Triumf des Willen", Trump has fed red meat to his base. But what he didn't recognize is that tactic became ineffective the day AFTER he barely won on a technicality.
And since the inquiry into his campaign and now his current actions have begun, his same methods keep crashing on him.
But, like Einstein's definition of insanity, he keeps repeating the same actions, expecting a better result, but keeps making it worse.
Unfortunately, like Assad, we can assume that there's no limit, no shibboleth, no law, no moral that Trump won't cross or break to hold on to power. We should even prepare for the contingency that he will declare martial law on some "Trumped-up" excuse such as the government running out of money at the end of September.
So, we can expect Trump to be cruel and inhuman about the chilldren of illegal and undocumented aliens.
9
It is luck when a country develops a policy or habit that ends up being a total win, win. Immigration was one of those ideas that took hold and is one of policies that really did make America great, again and again. Study after study confirms that immigration fuels the kind of thinking and work habits that continually energizes private sector economies and innovative thinking in the humanities, arts, and sciences. Countries that have highly restrictive immigration policies enter a demographic and innovative death spiral. The deep problem with this administration is most research---you know hard facts---appears to fly in the face of common sense understandings of world. Sadly, running the country on common sense understandings will undo what really made America great.
1
The statistics may be valid but this piece stands on its head the argument that our government has fallen into the hands of those intent on devouring its own citizens and needs fresh blood (immigrants) like a vampire for all the wrong reasons. An immigrant comes over to build and improve upon an existing structure, going all the way back to the Pilgrims who learned what they did from the natives. As a legal immigrant of 40 years married to an American born who raised an MD and a filmmaker, I can assure you that I wouldn't have experienced the same pride if I had insisted on old world ways of child raising.
4
The easy solution is to give illegal immigrants work status; exclude them from SSI and Medicare; and let them get in the back of the line, if they want the benefits of citizenship.
6
I almost wrote a flaming response based on the headline. Sure glad I didn't cause I would have looked like a fool.
4
It has been a longstanding argument: that native born Americans take our freedoms and opportunities for granted. Immigrants have come to the U.S. for decades hungry - hungry for the chance to better their lives. They clearly see the opportunity to work and make something of themselves and their families because, in most cases, where they came from did not have that.
8
Clever commentary. Enjoyed it. But it was also quite well aligned with my own anecdotal experience, which has taught me that immigrants are rushing to do the tough work that non-immigrants now shun. Thank you immigrants. May you survive this xenophobic mess that Tiny has created and prosper.
15
It's a shame that everyone reading this opinion does not read it to the end, allowing an instant reaction to blind them to the real content. I wonder what their reactions would have been if they had lived in England when the classic sarcastic proposal to control Irish population growth by eating Irish babies.
At times, a little sarcasm can open our eyes to see our own misguided complacent attitudes.
At times, a little sarcasm can open our eyes to see our own misguided complacent attitudes.
9
Agree completely. Perhaps they belong on a desert island someplace in the middle of nowhere. Or they could just do what the Confederates tried to do and leave the Union. This time just let them go and live in their enclaves in the interior of the country, without health care, welfare, food, defense, snow removal, garbage collection, but they can keep their religion. It's all they need.
3
A sterling column by Bret Stephens. Immigrants live our values better than we do, apparently. Those of us who have been privileged to be born here should hang our heads in shame after reading this indictment of complacency of our "natural born citizens'. Especially those whose ears are burned by the facts that Mr. Stephens' outlines so clearly.
Hate and division make us smaller. And it is the polar opposite of "e pluribus unum" - the words that many of us carry daily in our pockets and yet have never given a thought to or even understand.
Hate and division make us smaller. And it is the polar opposite of "e pluribus unum" - the words that many of us carry daily in our pockets and yet have never given a thought to or even understand.
7
Couldn't have said it any better. And a very clever way to show us what we need to do to be good Americans. Become informed, active citizens. And get some lazy eligible voters who don't vote off their duffs and get out there and vote. Our power as individuals becomes a force to be reckoned with when we join together and vote. One person's vote may not change an election. One million people who decide, as individuals to cast their one vote, can.
8
Lovely. I really appreciate your recent columns. And I am an unreformed leftist.
I have every right not to worship any god. Mr. Stephens, please eat your words.
8
My American born, college educated sons don't believe in God. One is gainfully employed, earning plenty, happy. The other has finished his first year of college and as a rising sophomore earned a paying spot in a national lab. Their dad was an immigrant, as was my dad. You're bigotry screams through your prose.
See, my college educated dad was able to school on a full scholarship thanks to Nat'l Math Competition. My husband cut grass, parked cars, waited tables to go to school.
My dad drove at 12, he lied and broke the law but the farm work he could get required it. He started working when he got here, 5 years old. My husband was here illegally for some time. He'd pop in and out of Canada. Now? We're 1%ers, disgusted by many of our peers.
Chat with Frank Bruno about his dad. Get a clue how hard it can be.
See, my college educated dad was able to school on a full scholarship thanks to Nat'l Math Competition. My husband cut grass, parked cars, waited tables to go to school.
My dad drove at 12, he lied and broke the law but the farm work he could get required it. He started working when he got here, 5 years old. My husband was here illegally for some time. He'd pop in and out of Canada. Now? We're 1%ers, disgusted by many of our peers.
Chat with Frank Bruno about his dad. Get a clue how hard it can be.
4
Bravo Bret.
1
Read your column on Fox News Mr Stephens.
Let's see how that goes.
Let's see how that goes.
2
Love your "turn the table" opinion on deporting "been-here-forever" entitled Americans who are complacent and maybe our worst citizens. Amen! Bring on the ones who want to be here, who want to build the American dream.
7
1. A higher proportion of immigrants than natives are Christian. This is important why?
2. The crime figures which favor the immigrants almost surely include some racial disparities among the natives that the NY Times would prefer not to discuss, and didn't here. But deporting these criminals back to where, exactly? Not Norway or Sweden so much.
3. No Dead Horse Left Unbeaten: The politics involve *illegal* immigration. Including doctors and engineers with visas is quite a bait and switch.
2. The crime figures which favor the immigrants almost surely include some racial disparities among the natives that the NY Times would prefer not to discuss, and didn't here. But deporting these criminals back to where, exactly? Not Norway or Sweden so much.
3. No Dead Horse Left Unbeaten: The politics involve *illegal* immigration. Including doctors and engineers with visas is quite a bait and switch.
A beautiful surprise from Mr. Stephens!
3
The best part of this is that all the anti-American politicians currently infesting DC and too many state capitals would be the first booted out.
Many of these might be deported to Russia soon anyway. Then we can reassess how the country is doing.
Many of these might be deported to Russia soon anyway. Then we can reassess how the country is doing.
2
Yes, yes and yes.
this article missed a very important word-the word is "illegal"
1
Make the President take the citizenship exam given during naturalization. Could he get one answer right? I doubt it.
5
I love the profound sense of entitlement rampant across the entire political spectrum in America. There is the entitlement of the immigrant now evidently on top of that of the wealthy oped columnists, the wealthy in general, the ethnic minorities, gays, trans, disabled, etc. Apparently everybody is entitled to live in the West except the working class "natives" and/or poor. It is refreshing to see such incredible arrogance from Mr. "Stephens." Why did his parents change their Jewish surname to that of a WASP native? Does he realize the incredible racism he is espousing as he simultaneously attacks a massive percentage of the population as being racist?
1
I usually am at odds with Brett Stephen's opinions, but I am with him here all the way. Well said.
2
"They need to return whence they came."
The faux intellectuals of the right wing hide behind language in the most disgraceful way. The use of the word "whence" is used to codify prejudice and hatred, attempting to inoculate the know-nothings from savagery.
It's propaganda.
The faux intellectuals of the right wing hide behind language in the most disgraceful way. The use of the word "whence" is used to codify prejudice and hatred, attempting to inoculate the know-nothings from savagery.
It's propaganda.
2
That's a prodigious amount of baggage to cram into one neutral adverb. Are users of "whither" or "thence" also somehow reprehensible?
1
Bret, a refreshing Op-Ed from a professed conservative, when I saw the headline of the piece I almost didn't read it for fear of yet another diatribe about our melting pot.
You may not realize it but you have defined the true meaning of "American Exceptionalism", I never bought into that hackneyed phrase, always suspecting there was a deplorable (thanks Hillary) mindset behind it.
You may not realize it but you have defined the true meaning of "American Exceptionalism", I never bought into that hackneyed phrase, always suspecting there was a deplorable (thanks Hillary) mindset behind it.
1
When I read this headline, I thought, this is only a good idea if they are deporting republicans!
4
Having less than 2 children is bad, having more than 4 is TERRIBLE (unless you are living in middle ages or in a 3rd world country consumed by diseases, war, and starvation.
I guess when he refers to people who don't believe in God, he means people who don't believe in his God, which must be the right one, because it's his.
5
I hate to seem vindictive but the Red states are disproportionally full of people who are addicted to drugs, have families with three generations on disability, and are chronically underemployed because they aren't willing to take the jobs an immigrant would take.
These are the same people who are "angry" about their status and would love to see "the Wall" and mass deportations.
The irony is shocking.
These are the same people who are "angry" about their status and would love to see "the Wall" and mass deportations.
The irony is shocking.
5
I believe that the American Indians and Eskimo believed exactly what you do. Even in light of that, your so-called American system was built upon immigrants. Your great America was built upon the backs of slaves, not just African but also Irish and other countries.
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
The Truth shall set you free.
—John Adams
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
The Truth shall set you free.
—John Adams
Throw out people that don't believe in god? Bret Stephens wishes to live in a theocracy!! It is deeply disturbing that a relatively moderate conservative thinker, whom I respected until now, could publicly make such a statement. I hope he is excoriated for it the next time he is in front of a microphone.
1
There isn't much evidence the "godless" are bringing down the economy. In fact, the very religious are highly unlikely to go to college and get a STEM degree and even less likely to get a graduate degree in STEM so in many ways religion is the enemy. The Indians and East Asians we import for STEM don't share the Judeo-Christian God you tout.
The religious Latinos you are praising will bring Latin America with them and they aren't getting STEM degrees either. All in all this column failed to address the root cause of intellectual failure in America. Religion not lack of religion sabotages STEM.
The religious Latinos you are praising will bring Latin America with them and they aren't getting STEM degrees either. All in all this column failed to address the root cause of intellectual failure in America. Religion not lack of religion sabotages STEM.
4
Not to mention that white, Christian, native-born Americans have been responsible for the large majority of terroristic attacks since 9/11.
The reason so many nonimmigrants are anti-immigrant is not that they're taking our jobs but that they fear just what you are talking about: many immigrants are more qualified, ambitious and yes, intelligent. Racism and hatred of "others" are often the product of jealousy. That's why Trump won. Not to make America great again but to continue their domination of a country in decline.
3
At last, words of wisdom to resolve the whole immigrating kerfuffle. When a fluorescent bulb starts flickering, we replace it. And we certainly have a lot of bulbs burning out now! When that happens in my home, I try to replace the most important and crucial one first. Maybe where we should start in our present crisis.
2
Well Bret, maybe you should get out since you don't seem to get it. One of the founding freedoms that this country is based on is FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Not just freedom to believe in Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, but also freedom to believe in devils, witches, or that butterflies are the one true religious entity. By saying people who are born here that don't believe in God shouldn't be allowed to stay, you are essentially saying you aren't qualified to be here since you do not support our constitution. Hey babe - get out! And no, I have no intention of telling you what I believe because it's my business, and my freedom.
3
According to Pew, crime soars among the second-generation - so do you want to deport the children of immigrants? In fact, by linking citizenship to a clean criminal record, have you really thought through who you'd be deporting? Are you sure you wish to veer so sharply away from liberal pieties even in jest?
This puts a bit of a spin on "love it or leave it".
The non immigrants that we could deport first would be trump and his comrades, those republicans.
But as you have stated, I bet there is not a country in the world that would accept trump.
But as you have stated, I bet there is not a country in the world that would accept trump.
2
Perhaps you are writing in blanket terms for readership, but the way you disparage Americans (a few generations out from their immigrant ancestors) for being "lazy", criminal, "ignorant", and not Christian-enough is why people are irritated with conservatives. You come off exactly like a former conservative friend of mine who thinks he knows everything, listens very little, and wishes everyone was the same as him. If you are really such a big thinker, maybe you should spend your time trying to come up with solutions to problems that don't involve throwing the baby out with the bathwater. This is from a teacher and mother of three boys who were taught not to lie, and to give back to society in some way. So, if you think they should be deported, send me the money for the passports because clearly there will be little here for them in a country of conservatives who are constantly denigrating our own. If you wonder what our real problems are, look in the mirror.
1
Then we must start our deportations with Mr. Trump. DJM
3
America, renew it or leave it.
1
Citizenship to the native born is the biggest and most undeserved entitlement there is. They should all go through a 5 year clean record period and pass a test like the rest of us.
4
Of people that I know, the worst bigots, the most uninformed people, the ones most given to simple-minded approaches to complicated problems, the ones who believe blatant falsehoods as truths, the ones who blame the world for their problems, and the ones quickest to take whatever they can get from any source including government, are all native born Americans proud of their heritage and beliefs.
4
Strawberry growers in Watsonville CA, are having problems finding labor. Many Mexicans are not coming, scared by Trumps comments.
Want a job?
Want a job?
The statistics in this column left me in shock. I knew it was bad, but not that bad. As an immigrant myself, I'm constantly surprised by the ignorance of ordinary Americans. They can't make change without a calculator. They don't know the names and locations of most foreign countries, not to mention their own states. Even allowing for local vernacular and slang, they mispronounce and misuse common words. In this area at least, they use biblical teachings as an excuse for intellectual laziness. Worst of all, they take pride in their ignorance.
Throughout history, great civilizations have collapsed for various reasons. It looks like our slide is well on its way.
Throughout history, great civilizations have collapsed for various reasons. It looks like our slide is well on its way.
5
Well argued. Refreshing. Certain to be ignored by President Trump's base supporters. Trumpian mythology and appologists in the opportunistic wing of the GOP will need to tourque-down the rhetorical nonsence or be prepared to face what they missed in 2016, in 2018: a re-energized center Movement to reclaim the original goals of the nascent Republic as stated in the preamble to the Declaration of Independence:
"... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ..."
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
"... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government ..."
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
2
Your first paragraph pretty much describes our president. I completely agree - deport him!
2
I wonder how many people didn't make it past the first two paragraphs.
1
All I have to go by is my own observations from being a Californian for the past 50 years. It's more crowded, the cost-of-living/housing has skyrocketed (one simply cannot live and raise a family here), all but the wealthiest public schools are unusable, we have essentially one-party rule and people now must spend millions of dollars to live like our parents lived--in clean, safe, trusting communities--for thousands. I suppose to someone coming from El Salvador or Bangladesh, it's an improvement. And California is a model for the nation. Yay.
3
An affluent friend of mine happens to vote in one of the polling stations in a poor neighborhood in Palm Beach County. In 2012, since Rick Scott had cut the voting hours and the number of polling stations, the line to vote turned out to be about 6 hours long. My friend had plenty of time to converse with those around her, who were, by and large, immigrants, mainly from the Caribbean. Almost all looked to have just come from work, manual labor.
The Guatemalan lady behind her had brought her well-behaved 12-year-old daughter, who had no iPhone or other gadget to distract her. "She can only use it after her homework is done," the lady explained.
At hour 3, the lady and her daughter had to leave because she had to get to her job. When my friend said, "You know, polls open at 6 am. You could come back then," the lady replied, "That's when I go to my first job."
As my friend was sympathizing with her problem, the lady said, "It's okay. I'll come and stand in line until I can vote. It's why I came to this country to have that privilege."
The Guatemalan lady behind her had brought her well-behaved 12-year-old daughter, who had no iPhone or other gadget to distract her. "She can only use it after her homework is done," the lady explained.
At hour 3, the lady and her daughter had to leave because she had to get to her job. When my friend said, "You know, polls open at 6 am. You could come back then," the lady replied, "That's when I go to my first job."
As my friend was sympathizing with her problem, the lady said, "It's okay. I'll come and stand in line until I can vote. It's why I came to this country to have that privilege."
6
Bravo. I have been saying the same for years whenever talk of deportation of recent immigrants comes up in the news.
1
I agree with the previous person that you make some excellent points. However people who flout the law need to be held accountable for their actions. If the laws are unjust they need to be changed, but not ignored. Thats how it works in civilization!
76
Yes, Larry. just as Donald Trump, his administration and congressional Republicans are held accountable. Great role models for the rule of law.
3
Immigrants are pioneers, and pioneers are by nature risk takers, and societies need risk takers in order to advance. I am amazed at how little Americans move anymore (physically and mentally). In the 1960's Americans moved twice as often (100 or more miles) than we do today. In 1980, the number of boomerang children (after college under age 30) was 9%. Today, 38%. Today, adult children go to college with their parents, talk or text with their parents daily (sometimes several times), and then move back home after college. Colleges have become "safe zones" where we protect our adult children from hearing anything upsetting. We are now a coddled insular people who no longer desire the open road not taken and the risk that comes with venturing down it. Yet, without risk there is very little chance for experience, and without experience there is no personal growth. We can fix our nation's problems such as racism, healthcare, poverty, obesity, opiate abuse, mass incarceration, etc., but we must take risk to chart a different course. These problems will not be get fixed comfortably with ease. We become great again by adopting an immigrant attitude. Like immigrants, we must move on and get on with it knowing that it will never be easy, or fair, or just or comfortable, but it will lead us to a better place. This is why immigrants scare us so.
6
Much of this column mixes bona fide immigrants with people who are living here illegally. If you separate the two groups, you would find they differ dramatically. In general, it is the former who strongly value education. They are better educated than illegal immigrants and they continually let their children and grandchildren know the importance of education. Illegal immigrants arrive with less education, and their progeny, as a group, do not make school a priority. Most illegal immigrants are Hispanic. Hispanics have the highest rates of school drop-outs and teen pregnancy in the U.S.
UCLA sociologists Telles and Ortiz published a generations-long study of immigrant Mexican families in L.A. and San Antonio. While the immigrants’ children did get more education than their parents had back in Mexico, their own children and grandchildren did NOT go to school for an increasing number of years. In fact, many of them went to school for fewer years than the first generation to attend school here.
Illegal immigrants do tend to value large families. Instead of having one child after another, wouldn’t it be better for parents to spend their time and resources on fewer children and make sure that each of them gets a good education? The Telles and Ortiz study found that Mexicans, with their low levels of education, were unable to move up the economic ladder. They remained stuck at the bottom, generation after generation.
UCLA sociologists Telles and Ortiz published a generations-long study of immigrant Mexican families in L.A. and San Antonio. While the immigrants’ children did get more education than their parents had back in Mexico, their own children and grandchildren did NOT go to school for an increasing number of years. In fact, many of them went to school for fewer years than the first generation to attend school here.
Illegal immigrants do tend to value large families. Instead of having one child after another, wouldn’t it be better for parents to spend their time and resources on fewer children and make sure that each of them gets a good education? The Telles and Ortiz study found that Mexicans, with their low levels of education, were unable to move up the economic ladder. They remained stuck at the bottom, generation after generation.
1
Generations of Exclusion is a great study. But you don't mention their conclusion. The lack of educational attainment is the result of institutional barriers.
I have two eyes, let's call the left one Telles and the right one Ortiz. Ortiz and Telles teach at a college in the Central Valley. 70% of the students are Latino. Many come right off the fields to class. Telles and Ortiz observe the most ambitious, hard working, gracious students in their 25 years of looking around American classrooms.
The entitled, grade-grubbing, safe-spacers could learn from them.
I have two eyes, let's call the left one Telles and the right one Ortiz. Ortiz and Telles teach at a college in the Central Valley. 70% of the students are Latino. Many come right off the fields to class. Telles and Ortiz observe the most ambitious, hard working, gracious students in their 25 years of looking around American classrooms.
The entitled, grade-grubbing, safe-spacers could learn from them.
1
I have studied and worked with EDUCATED immigrants, and here's something for your consideration: my daughter is IN DEBT for part of her education. I gave up a house to have the money to educate her, so that she didn't have so much student loan debt. She did her part: she has a job as a mechanical engineer with a good salary. She moved across country to get this job, and was ABLE to do so because I sacrificed saving for retirement and a roof over my head, so she wasn't in SO MUCH DEBT from education she couldn't budge. Many young immigrants I know of (I'm in software!) were educated at a MUCH more reasonable price in their countries. I'm talking about the immigrant software engineers I talk to - they are COMPLETELY blown away by how much it will cost to educate their children to these standards. My daughter had a roommate her freshman year from Cyprus with a FULL SCHOLARSHIP from her home country. This is what we USED TO DO for our young educated people (I know ... I graduated from the University of California). Instead, our young educated people for the most part are in debt up to their eyebrows. They live at home because they're trying to get out from under. As far as starting companies, you have to get rid of the debt first! So, the ones complaining are the ones staying put ... for VERY logical financial reasons. Germany and Austria pay to train their young at ALL levels (my Austrian nephew has a good career and NO DEBT).
6
This is an excellent column, and I have gradually come to the same conclusion after a long career in biology. Follow the non-Trump news and watch the interviews with scientists associated with a new discovery. Nearly all of them nowadays are from other countries, or their parents were. My "regular" medical providers include immigrants from China, the former Yugoslavia, India, England, South Korea, and Turkey; only two were born in America. My wife and I love this diversity, and we think that it makes America a much better country.
3
The Wall to exclude undocumented people will need to be engineered by the granddaughter of undocumented immigrants, built by contracting companies immigrants started after becoming legal through Reagan era amnesty.
6
SOME immigrants contribute much to America. Others, overall, bring serious problems. Mr. Stephens overall aggregation analysis is very misleading.
8
The over generalization goes both ways, since all immigrants are now getting painted with the brush of these supposedly evil illegal immigrants. Throwing out people who are not creating a problem does not make sense to me.
2
An excellent column from an excellent columnist-and thoughtful conservative. Bret is a welcome addition to the NYT with his broad perspective, eloquent writing, ability to see a different perspective and a much appreciated sense of humor.
10
In the household I grew up in, the fact that that my maternal ancestors came from Zurich and settled in Illinois in the 1880's was brought up frequently. I had a great Aunt that lived in the ancestral house in Elizabeth when I was young, so I had a tangible connection to our family story. We are a nation of immigrants and descendants of immigrants. That is a fact more than a political opinion.
11
This is incredibly uplifting. I a physician scientist and it is unlikely that any other enterprise in America benefits more than immigrants including so many on HB1 Visa than does our research laboratories. They come from around the world to work in what are (were) the most high impact productive research laboratories and the more advanced the lab the higher the proportion of immigrants. The profound anti-intellectualism in the US surprises them. We all have some much to learn from our immigrants. What generation is going to stand up to the uninformed, bitter, hate-filled rhetoric of the american right wing. Those who denigrate immigrants delude themselves of their contributions to our society.
15
Thank you for this piece, it made me think, but I'm also left with some questions that I'd love for you to answer in your next column: I consider myself a political moderate and believe in immigration reform (more ways for people to be here legally) but I'd like less immigration overall because each Americans' resource footprint on the world is so heavy and it seems nobody speaks about population pressure and our melting planet. Second, in an age of globalization, why do we continue to believe that a brain drain from other countries (attracting the best and brightest) isn't a direct threat to our future security? Violent extremism is a political/social/governance challenge--we need more people with education and skills for social cohesion everywhere and we need to support them where they live, locally.
11
Starting a new business is much easier when you work cash under the table, hire people who you pay outside the tax system and don't follow work or licensing laws.
I've watched all the painters, masons, small trade jobs that skate under the state's radar shift to owners and workers from Central America. By the way they conduct their business, they are clearly working outside the tax and regulatory system. They offer lower rates and undercut businesses working on the books. But sure let's keep calling Americans lazy.
I've watched all the painters, masons, small trade jobs that skate under the state's radar shift to owners and workers from Central America. By the way they conduct their business, they are clearly working outside the tax and regulatory system. They offer lower rates and undercut businesses working on the books. But sure let's keep calling Americans lazy.
10
Ok...they're lazy. Taxes being paid won't change their laziness
2
I am sure that what you suggest sometimes does happen. But are you suggesting that US citizens never do this??
OK if what you say is true, that means that all US citizens are all supremely law abiding! Or is it really an indication that their ambition level is closer to the scenario described in this article when compared with new immigrants.
Oh and I'm sure the success and characteristics of immigrants described in this article can ALL be attributed to "working under the table". Yeah......THAT explains it....... THANKS!! Good to know.
OK if what you say is true, that means that all US citizens are all supremely law abiding! Or is it really an indication that their ambition level is closer to the scenario described in this article when compared with new immigrants.
Oh and I'm sure the success and characteristics of immigrants described in this article can ALL be attributed to "working under the table". Yeah......THAT explains it....... THANKS!! Good to know.
2
I totally agree with your comments. But why are these leeches not treated with the same disdain that the illegal worker is. Both are lawbreakers and could not exist without the other.
Sad, but the brown one is looked at as a criminal while the white one is considered a small business owner.
In Alabama, timber is a huge business. Forests are cut down and replanted with pine trees. Almost all the replanting is done by these same workers. But the landowners and timber managers are considered respected citizens and very influential in state politics.
.
Sad, but the brown one is looked at as a criminal while the white one is considered a small business owner.
In Alabama, timber is a huge business. Forests are cut down and replanted with pine trees. Almost all the replanting is done by these same workers. But the landowners and timber managers are considered respected citizens and very influential in state politics.
.
2
Brilliant satire a la' Jonathan Swift. I am appalled at many of the reactions in the comments.
11
A foreigner's perspective here - statistics are a strange thing, they can be interpreted many ways. As I see it, these statistics can back an argument *against* immigration (or at least current policies) as it strongly suggests that US policy favors foreigners over natural born citizens. Is it racist to expect that a government's job is to work for it's own people, or is it the bedrock of democracy, as America of a different age taught the world?
The US is failing its Black population, most of which has been in the country for many generations, and its White working class. These citizens deserve better from their government and the elites from both sides of the political map.
The US is failing its Black population, most of which has been in the country for many generations, and its White working class. These citizens deserve better from their government and the elites from both sides of the political map.
13
In what ways are we favoring immigrants? (I agree that we are failing our own young by not not supporting their education.)
I live in Florida, the state that elected a governor who took the 5th 70 some times. He was being questioned about the largest Medicare fraud in history under his reign. This speaks to the intelligence level here. I had a moment a few years ago that brought home the points made in this article. I was at a local grocery and the fellow who was taking out my bags asked me where i was from. I said Washington, DC, he asked me where that was. I said it was where the President lived. Not even that hit home. How would anyone know about the three branches of government if he had no idea where or what was the capitol .
13
But in his defense, maybe Rick Perry was having an off day.
Jane in Florida, as a fellow Floridian, I would be absolutely thrilled if the governor could be deported. I'll buy the plane ticket to wherever he wants to go!
And yes, I find myself drilling into my children lessons about the branches of government, checks and balances, different types of government, etc. because although the receive cursory education in the subject, including a fairly comprehensive class in middle school, there is always more to learn and not enough hours in the school day in which to learn it. A look at US voter turnout is a sad illustration of how disconnected so many are from the form of government on which the nation was founded.
And yes, I find myself drilling into my children lessons about the branches of government, checks and balances, different types of government, etc. because although the receive cursory education in the subject, including a fairly comprehensive class in middle school, there is always more to learn and not enough hours in the school day in which to learn it. A look at US voter turnout is a sad illustration of how disconnected so many are from the form of government on which the nation was founded.
1
Exactly. How can it be that you have to have a driving test and driver's license to get on the road, but you can vote without showing a similar proficiency.
If American exceptionalism exists at all, it's due in large measure to the continual stream of gutsy, hardworking immigrants who've come here to make a better life for themselves and their families. Despite often being excoriated by native born Americans, these new Americans have provided -and continue to provide - a steady infusion of vitality and innovation to our economy and culture. The truth is, we need them as much as they need the opportunities America offers.
19
No stats on the percentage of immigrants voted for Trump? I'd bet many of these new entrepreneurs are Republican, but perhaps they are also among the few level-headed Republicans?
1
Illegal immigration is the topic that io discuss, not switching back and forth between facts about illegal and legal immigration. Partisanship in the US increases.
4
At last, a real game-changing argument from a Times columnist. If America is to reassert itself as the world's foremost meritocracy, we need to launch our own annual Hunger Games to root out the meritless. It would be inhumane to slaughter them when there's a better alternative: Export them to conflict areas like Syria where they'll be forced to learn (or relearn) how to survive and perhaps even thrive through their own initiative and hard work.
1
As always, an interesting column, but as for logic and use of statistics, it falls short. For example, a multi generation family of farmers would not be counted as starting a business. This puts your whole point out of balance. Farming is a hard business and it takes a hard working person to make a profit. Also, it was not broken down by race when using crime and education numbers. Again very poorly reasoned since the major thrust of the argument certainly left the impression that non immigrants are white.
3
Last year on the Fourth of July, I went to the swearing in ceremony for new citizens at the World War II Museum. I cried through a lot of it. First, my father was an immigrant, fleeing Nazi Germany, and second because these new citizens had worked so hard to become Americans. Three wore the uniform of the United States Army. Immigrants are not throw-away people. They are real. They are people. They believe in America and don't take it for granted. Thanks for an excellent column.
I am a Canadian of European decent. I live in Canada. Contrary to our stereotype, I do fret about the influx of immigrants. When I visit Toronto, I often feel like a minority in my own country. Veiled women on the subway make me uneasy. The nightly news often starts with shootings, the perpetrators being inevitably black. Emotionally I react to immigrants in a racist way, based on fear. However, intellectually I tamp down my initial reaction and mentally debate the meaning of my prejudices, and begin to think rationally about immigration. This mental struggle generally leads to agreement with the conclusions of this article, aside from the religious part. That is why I support immigration, and why I voted for Trudeau.
9
The meaningless babble of "we are a nation of immigrants" mouthed by a self declared "conservative". We are a nation of Americans, not a nation of immigrants. Using cherry picked statistics he pretends to prove all recent immigrants are better based on some criteria than native born citizens. According to him native born Americans commit more crime that recent immigrants, ignoring all other factors that contribute to crime than just location of birth. He then jokingly recommends deportation of current citizens, majority white. If he suggested this about other protected groups, the NYT would not publish his piece and dismiss him form their staff. Conservatives have always been uncomfortable talking about the social sciences, preferring to advocate making the rich richer and cheap immigrant labor certainly serves their goal.
6
You are native born because an immigrant came here and had children. We are still a nation of immigrants except for the true native born, the Native Americans.
3
It's amazing how different the story looks from that perspective.
2
I love the way conservatives always manage to insert religion into any discussion. What does religion have to do with anything? Our Constitution gives us Freedom of Religion and Freedom from Religion. The fact that there are less religious people in the USA isn't an indication of anything other than changing times. We live in a secular nation and by most accounts it is the best system. In nations where a particular religion is included in government women are stoned to death for being witches! When the Christian religion had a hold on Europe there was the Inquisition and Crusades that slaughtered tens of thousands.
Mr Stephens in case you don't know George Washington was not a christian and did not attend church. Thomas Jefferson's famous quote "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man" was directed against the christian clergy in Philadelphia! So early on there was a movement away from religion in this nation.
Mr Stephens in case you don't know George Washington was not a christian and did not attend church. Thomas Jefferson's famous quote "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man" was directed against the christian clergy in Philadelphia! So early on there was a movement away from religion in this nation.
9
Jefferson wrote "The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom"
http://www.vahistorical.org/collections-and-resources/virginia-history-e...
And wrote re-wrote the Bible with all of the "miracles" removed.
'Nuff said Religious Conservatives who somehow can see this and still insist the founders wanted a Christian nation. Most were Deists (Franklin) and Christ wasn't even in their equation.
http://www.vahistorical.org/collections-and-resources/virginia-history-e...
And wrote re-wrote the Bible with all of the "miracles" removed.
'Nuff said Religious Conservatives who somehow can see this and still insist the founders wanted a Christian nation. Most were Deists (Franklin) and Christ wasn't even in their equation.
5
Agreed, but sometimes religious thought instills a sense of morality that a secular society needs. If we could teach ethics without religion, it would be the better way. Lack of morality drives greed and hate. So, unfortunately, right now religious education and indoctrination is the primary way we have to teach ethics and the human values of honesty, justice and mercy.
I have always said that the best American is a new American after watching immigrant communities revitalize dying decrepit communities.
We need more new Americans and less entitled ones.
We need more new Americans and less entitled ones.
7
We need LEGAL immigrants - exclusively.
4
I don't support mass deportation either. The romanticized off-the-boat immigrant generally is a hard working, law abiding citizen. Unless you're Native American, everyone was off-the-boat at some point . Actually, some evidence suggests certain Native Americans groups may have traveled here by boat as well. They just did it around 11,000 years ago. That's kind of awesome if you think about it.
There is an immigration/emigration problem though. It's just not the problem under attack by the Trump administration. The problem isn't really about immigration per se so much as globalization and inequality. I think the part people are angry about is the legal-illegal-immigration. Companies either importing cheap skilled labor or exporting jobs. Disney is one glaring example but the trend is omnipresent. United States labor is under attack and has been for at least 40 years. Even a college degree no longer secures an American worker secure employment over their life time. That's what people are upset about.
Unfortunately, this agitation has manifest in a profoundly narrow minded way. We're not addressing the real problem. We're punching Joe to hit John. It's not going to work. What we need to do is address globalization head on and devise policy that the American public, literally, can live with. Granting corporate boards control on behalf of workers is backwards and self-defeating. Why would you want to live in America if you're shut out of the republic? There must be a better way.
There is an immigration/emigration problem though. It's just not the problem under attack by the Trump administration. The problem isn't really about immigration per se so much as globalization and inequality. I think the part people are angry about is the legal-illegal-immigration. Companies either importing cheap skilled labor or exporting jobs. Disney is one glaring example but the trend is omnipresent. United States labor is under attack and has been for at least 40 years. Even a college degree no longer secures an American worker secure employment over their life time. That's what people are upset about.
Unfortunately, this agitation has manifest in a profoundly narrow minded way. We're not addressing the real problem. We're punching Joe to hit John. It's not going to work. What we need to do is address globalization head on and devise policy that the American public, literally, can live with. Granting corporate boards control on behalf of workers is backwards and self-defeating. Why would you want to live in America if you're shut out of the republic? There must be a better way.
8
I think it was Jack Welch at GE that always fired the bottom 10% of the workforce to replace them with higher performing workers. This article hits the nail on the head. Lets deport the bottom 10% that has never assimilated, does not contribute to society, has children out of wedlock and games the system instead of trying to get ahead. Remove all the victim labels they try to wear and give them two weeks to shape up or ship out. Send them to France, Venezuala , Canada or the Netherlands.
1
English Immigration to America began in the 1600's when England established colonies on the east coast of North America. The colonists all belonged to the Anglo-Saxon race and shared the same ethnic origin, identity, language, heritage, culture, education, history and physical characteristics. Their new home was governed by England and they were bound by the same laws and allegiance to the British monarch.If all this had never happened,problems of today would never exist.Now forced occupation,killing 30 million Natives created a new country,talking of deportation is a bit too late in the day
I think you are on to something, Bret. Hard working, church going legal immigrants are much preferable to the typical liberal Democrat who spends all their time whining about how unfair America is. If they want a communist or socialist utopia, there are plenty of countries they could deport themselves to that offer that promise. Better that they leave the USA to people who appreciate the unequaled opportunity for economic advancement that it offers to common people, native born or otherwise.
2
The American experiment is seeing hard times because we are losing faith and trust in each other. This did not start with immigrants, but they were an easily identifiable group for the "otherists" to blame their troubles on. The conservative grievance industrial complex has been working overtime to divide all of us and it has succeeded wildly. There were too few of us to counter their onslaught, but the nation is once again awakening so we'll see. You never know how an experiment will turn out.,
Sometimes innovation and sometimes just a big mess.
Sometimes innovation and sometimes just a big mess.
3
What about non-immigrant persons from ancestors in this country for several generations who are so literate that can enjoy being ironically chided and know you want them to stay? Do they not use to an immigrant level of acuity and be spared deportation?
2
Instead of deportation how about one child per couple? That would keep down overpopulation and keep the racial status quo which conservatives rant about so much.
And by the way, I think the United States could do with a lot more atheism and a lot less god and guns.
And by the way, I think the United States could do with a lot more atheism and a lot less god and guns.
6
Are you ready to support coercion to implement your wisdom?
At the current rates of investigation, many of those non-immigrants will be deported to prison, I hope.
Do really think that Germany and Great Britain (Scotland) want any of the Trumps back?
5
Since when do Americans have to believe in God? I thought freedom of religion includes the freedom to reject religion.
4
See? That's the problem. These immigrant go-getters, who emphasize education and upward-mobility, make the rest of us poor slobs look bad. Their kids are well-behaved, they open restaurants, convenience stores, and other small businesses, and because they had to go through citizenship classes, they know more about the history and laws of this country than those of us who have been here for generations. And I have yet to meet an immigrant who wasn't polite. But Mr. Stephens brings up a good point. Where would we go, and who on earth would take us?
8
Nice. You did forget to mention that non immigrants have an incredible sense of entitlement and privilege; after all we are exceptional.
5
Try hiring young, competent scientists born in this country. I did and it was embarrassing to read resumes and compare them to those who came here for education and wanted to stay because their home country wasn't interested in them. It was even worse to compare interviews. No contest!
9
Nothing to dispute in this honest report.
As an immigrant, 52 years ago, I've watched the true blue American become less important in the work force, as hardworking immigrants step forward, willing to take on any task to better their lot in life.
Of the thousands of immigrants I have interacted with since 1965, I can say with confidence that the vast majority are here, first to improve their own lives, their children's lives, and all love their adopted country to a fault.
I think the problem with native born Americans, not first generation, although some seem to be becoming similar, is they seem to believe their ancestry as Americans gives them some special right to be productive or not, say whatever whenever, discriminate as they see fit, work only it suits them, and oddly they have developed the sense of entitlement they wrongly accuse immigrants of having.
Now, all of that said, there are a great many truly wonderful Americans, concerned about the direction our country is headed in, empathetic, giving their all, but the loudmouth crass American (I deliberately say those words, because so help me, this perception is held worldwide), in their ignorance, drown these salt of the earth Americans.
Perhaps this is how great powers eventually decline; they shine brilliantly for a time, exhausted real committment to preservation, securing their own ignominious end.
As an immigrant, 52 years ago, I've watched the true blue American become less important in the work force, as hardworking immigrants step forward, willing to take on any task to better their lot in life.
Of the thousands of immigrants I have interacted with since 1965, I can say with confidence that the vast majority are here, first to improve their own lives, their children's lives, and all love their adopted country to a fault.
I think the problem with native born Americans, not first generation, although some seem to be becoming similar, is they seem to believe their ancestry as Americans gives them some special right to be productive or not, say whatever whenever, discriminate as they see fit, work only it suits them, and oddly they have developed the sense of entitlement they wrongly accuse immigrants of having.
Now, all of that said, there are a great many truly wonderful Americans, concerned about the direction our country is headed in, empathetic, giving their all, but the loudmouth crass American (I deliberately say those words, because so help me, this perception is held worldwide), in their ignorance, drown these salt of the earth Americans.
Perhaps this is how great powers eventually decline; they shine brilliantly for a time, exhausted real committment to preservation, securing their own ignominious end.
6
Perhaps DNC needs to send a copy of this article to all the people who voted for Trump! Perhaps, Fox News would care to broadcast the content of this article to its viewers so that they know what the consequence of a misguided immigration policy would be on the very people who believe the immigrants are a force for bad instead of good.
3
Trump was elected by the white Americans who felt left out as they did not try to excel. They thought that their jobs would last forever, being paid $37 an hour for menial work where they looked forward to their next coffee break. DO NOT get me started on the state employees, they soak the system doing substandard work but cannot get fired. Now we work full time to pay their salaries. The American worker loves being disabled, now they can park closer at Walmart when they buy the goods that cost them their jobs.
4
Couldn't agree with you more!
I wasn't appeased - you sound quite a bit too comfortable with the vocabulary and concepts of deportation. Your intimate knowledge of this dangerous subject, your wording soaked in irony that is nevertheless in dubious taste, lead me, anyway, to suspect that your curiosity might have taken you along some slippery slopes at one time. However, I may be mistaken, who knows? But this may be the last Bret Stephens article I ever read.
2
trump is in the process of deporting Iraqi CHRISTIANS. Nuff said. I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, AND I HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO THAT POSITION. I will not be "returning" to Denmark, much as I would like to do so, at this time.
4
Radical notion, rhetorical or not! Let's start with Trump.
2
Certainly describes upstate New York. Here in Rensselaer County 3 of 4 households receive a government check: local government workers, Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Food Stamps, retired military and government. Yet this county voted for the scowling, old fat man in the golf cart. What this county needs is the energy only immigrants can provide, not more old people who can only take from government.
1
Excellent article, although the provocative title about mass deportation brings back many bad historical precedents. I'd urge readers to slog through Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands," to learn about mass deportations of "unwanted" people in the Soviet Union and Germany in the 20th Century.
I have no use for self-entitled people who think that having family who came here in the 1600s and a white skin make them superior to all others, and they sit back and don't keep their professional skills up, depend on alcohol (or nowadays opiates or meth), and demonize others. Period. They are an embarrassment to themselves and their country.
Sadly, the politicians they vote for demonize the "other" and suggest this is the solution to all problems. They often come from the same sort of background: witness Romney's disgusting "47%" comment which lost him the 2012 election.
What did people forget between Romney (150 million fellow Americans somehow implied as "life unworthy of life") and the Ryan/McConnell efforts to replace the ACA with something that would snatch healthcare from 23-28 million fellow Americans and thus provide an earlier death for them?
I have no use for self-entitled people who think that having family who came here in the 1600s and a white skin make them superior to all others, and they sit back and don't keep their professional skills up, depend on alcohol (or nowadays opiates or meth), and demonize others. Period. They are an embarrassment to themselves and their country.
Sadly, the politicians they vote for demonize the "other" and suggest this is the solution to all problems. They often come from the same sort of background: witness Romney's disgusting "47%" comment which lost him the 2012 election.
What did people forget between Romney (150 million fellow Americans somehow implied as "life unworthy of life") and the Ryan/McConnell efforts to replace the ACA with something that would snatch healthcare from 23-28 million fellow Americans and thus provide an earlier death for them?
3
Alas, if the Xenophobe-in-Chief could read more than a sentence at a time (and said sentence would have to contain his name), this item could be a revelation for him. Perhaps if the author made it into bullet points or a slide show with helpful graphics?
Snark aside, it has been proven again and again over many decades that modern countries thrive economically and socially in years when immigration is increased.
Snark aside, it has been proven again and again over many decades that modern countries thrive economically and socially in years when immigration is increased.
3
So, you have to believe in God to be a "good" immigrant? Since when? We are not a religious country no matter how hard Stephens would like us to believe it.
4
Wasn't it an orphan immigrant who grew up in US said-
See what immigrants gifted your nation with, by voting for a best President you ever had , Mr. Obama, because we knew he would take care of our planet, environment, his country and its people. And look what you non-immigrants handed this country in return!
See what immigrants gifted your nation with, by voting for a best President you ever had , Mr. Obama, because we knew he would take care of our planet, environment, his country and its people. And look what you non-immigrants handed this country in return!
This article would be funny if it weren't so sadly true.
1
Great headline!
Excellent piece.
Here's one atheist (biblical, though I do believe the natives of this continent had the right idea) who agrees with your premise.
All that was said is true. Immigrants are the lifeblood of America. They provide the brains and the muscle but there are issues that is taboo to discuss.
The perceived threat of first generation immigrants has always been about job competition and wage undercutting.
After establishment of social services that provided legal immigrants with food, shelter, and free medical care came resentment because US workers had to spend much of their earnings on such necessities. To the immigrants defence such aid was temporary or only lasted with the 1st generation that arrived as elderly.
Recent mass immigrations also brought it a small group of hardened criminals. But they eventually got tamed by the FBI when they grew out of control.
Recent immigrantion from the Muslim countries raise new concerns that just didn't exist in the past. A miniscule number of children of immigrants get radicalized and few among them commit mass terror. Remember Tsarnaev brothers?
The odds of terror is too small to mention but what makes it terrifying is that unlike a bad neighborhood, you can't walk around it. It can happen any place and any time.
There are many reasons for radicalization. Too many to mention.
But somebody must be responsible and accountable for the younger generation that resorts to terror.
So far it's only been finger pointing. The final blame is placed solely on the person who commits the crime. But that is a dead end, no pun intended.
The perceived threat of first generation immigrants has always been about job competition and wage undercutting.
After establishment of social services that provided legal immigrants with food, shelter, and free medical care came resentment because US workers had to spend much of their earnings on such necessities. To the immigrants defence such aid was temporary or only lasted with the 1st generation that arrived as elderly.
Recent mass immigrations also brought it a small group of hardened criminals. But they eventually got tamed by the FBI when they grew out of control.
Recent immigrantion from the Muslim countries raise new concerns that just didn't exist in the past. A miniscule number of children of immigrants get radicalized and few among them commit mass terror. Remember Tsarnaev brothers?
The odds of terror is too small to mention but what makes it terrifying is that unlike a bad neighborhood, you can't walk around it. It can happen any place and any time.
There are many reasons for radicalization. Too many to mention.
But somebody must be responsible and accountable for the younger generation that resorts to terror.
So far it's only been finger pointing. The final blame is placed solely on the person who commits the crime. But that is a dead end, no pun intended.
Believe in God is a requirement to be in the US? What else? Pilgrimage to the Ark Encounter? Believe the earth is 10,000 years old?
3
You must be writing about the low information Trump voters, the ones who hate Obamacare but like the Affordable Care Act, the ones who hope the Government doesn't take over Medicare, the ones who thing Trump is doing a great job.
Perfect column. Well played Mr. Stephens.
Of course we should welcome immigrants and we have and we do. We must also help them assimilate. Most thinking Americans just want them to come here legally and after stringent vetting. We also know that 40% of illegals are the result of overstayed visa's and that reflects sloppiness on the part of our government. That government sloppiness is also reflected by giving welfare to some of our own citizens when some as yet undetermined number don't deserve it. Americans are tractable when they see fairness. They are skeptical otherwise and that is probably why so many in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan etc. said enough is enough during the last election. Unfortunately, their choices were limited to tone deaf and incompetent autocrat.
1
As a non-immigrant American (with roots here back to the 18th century) originally from one of those "rust belt" states that put Trump over the top, I share Mr. Stephens's frustration with "real Americans."
Today's culture of resentment, anger, and self-destruction was not a part of the Mid-American small town culture I grew up in. And I don't mean to sentimentalize that small town culture - which I found stifling, and escaped as soon as I could. But no one I knew was allergic to work, and whining was not tolerated. People held themselves to high standards. If anything, it was too stringent, not too lax. That was in the 1960s and 1970s.
Things changed, both economically and culturally, under President Reagan. Those go-go years infused a different "winner take all" mentality that undermined us as a nation. The glue came unstuck. I view today's unfolding story as the sorry conclusion of a tale of greed, corporate rapacity, and the hollowing out of much of the interior. Lives were reduced to how big your McMansion was, whether you drove a Mercedes, what clothes your kids wore to school. We lost our way. Now, we have people dying in Dollar Stores from overdoses while their toddlers cry and whole sections of the country where it is barely an exaggeration to say that everyone is on disability.
Trump's "answer" is to double down on it all. The real answer, as it always is, is to treat each other as we would want others to treat us. Dump Trump and push the restart button.
Today's culture of resentment, anger, and self-destruction was not a part of the Mid-American small town culture I grew up in. And I don't mean to sentimentalize that small town culture - which I found stifling, and escaped as soon as I could. But no one I knew was allergic to work, and whining was not tolerated. People held themselves to high standards. If anything, it was too stringent, not too lax. That was in the 1960s and 1970s.
Things changed, both economically and culturally, under President Reagan. Those go-go years infused a different "winner take all" mentality that undermined us as a nation. The glue came unstuck. I view today's unfolding story as the sorry conclusion of a tale of greed, corporate rapacity, and the hollowing out of much of the interior. Lives were reduced to how big your McMansion was, whether you drove a Mercedes, what clothes your kids wore to school. We lost our way. Now, we have people dying in Dollar Stores from overdoses while their toddlers cry and whole sections of the country where it is barely an exaggeration to say that everyone is on disability.
Trump's "answer" is to double down on it all. The real answer, as it always is, is to treat each other as we would want others to treat us. Dump Trump and push the restart button.
6
Overall I like your column and agree with much of it.
But I almost didn't bother to read it as soon as you dragged in God.
Could we please leave God out of our policy making, and our expert opinions?
The Founding Fathers certainly did, and it's one of America's very greatest strengths.
By the way, have you ever see, or read, a copy of the Jefferson Bible?
The one where Thomas Jefferson edited it by cutting out multiple pages, including the stories of the resurrection.
If not, you should.
I'm especially fond of that Bible.
But I almost didn't bother to read it as soon as you dragged in God.
Could we please leave God out of our policy making, and our expert opinions?
The Founding Fathers certainly did, and it's one of America's very greatest strengths.
By the way, have you ever see, or read, a copy of the Jefferson Bible?
The one where Thomas Jefferson edited it by cutting out multiple pages, including the stories of the resurrection.
If not, you should.
I'm especially fond of that Bible.
20
Sadly, these are the very people who elected the incompetent clown.
5
Your religious argument is bogus. There are many sp-called religious people in the U.S. that when caught with their hand in the cookie jar hide behind their faith as an excuse. I decided a while back that I am an atheist; does that make me a bad person?
4
It doesn't make you a bad person - it makes you a sensible person, in my book. The point in the article, however, is that critics of legal and illegal immigration bemoan the lack of Christian principles in those groups but themselves are less likely to identify as Christian than immigrant groups. It was about the hypocrisy, not the belief system.
1
Why don't you follow your suggestion, Mr. Stephens? I trust you don't have STEM degree and never started your own business. The closest place for you to go? Canada, of course, so orderly and nice and loved by your ilk? What, after research you discovered that even as an American you can't simply move to Canada? That they have demanding points system, age and health restrictions, criminal background check and yearly quotas? And maybe that's why they're so clean and orderly? Stupid Canadians! We in the States of course know better. No restrictions! Everyone is welcome! Whoever disagrees is racist, fascist and [whatever else]. We WILL turn our country into 3rd world one! Right? Or wouldn't it be simpler if you outsourced your organ to China? They can write even better agitprop. And it would be infinitely cheaper too.
3
Pondering meaningless notions like "American-ness" is sort of a pointless exercise and misses the point. Legally speaking, "real Americans" are US Citizens (& legal Permanent Residents, I suppose). And if Democrats and Liberals want to make it easier for immigrants to come here legally, stay here legally, and then become eligible for Citizenship sooner...then they should do it the same we that we do everything else in the democracy of ours...by changing the laws!
And the misrepresentation here is staggering. The author cites studies and figures where "immigrants" are shown to be thriving...but no one is calling for the deportation of those that are here legally. We just want our laws to mean something, and if we no longer agree with these laws, we ought to change them.
And the misrepresentation here is staggering. The author cites studies and figures where "immigrants" are shown to be thriving...but no one is calling for the deportation of those that are here legally. We just want our laws to mean something, and if we no longer agree with these laws, we ought to change them.
With the exception of extolling fertility and being "God-fearing" as, apparently, superior traits, I appreciate Stephens's defense of immigration.
5
...is this the same Bret Stephens?
Careful with the sarcasm, I was ready to cancel my NYT subscription after that opening paragraph. Not too bad in the end, but still, the writer retains and repeats the concept that adhering to myth and wild speculation is somehow not a very bad habit. Alt-truth started a long time ago, and its first name was religion. It made sense when nothing serious was on offer, but it has no place in a world that now knows better, especially given the propensity of believers to tar and feather, or slice necks, all in the name of imaginary things.
5
Guilty. When my sister went to college she dated a student from Iran. He was so excited about the U.S., what it had to offer, and his opportunities here. It struck me that I was taking it all for granted and going through the motions. He went on to have tremendous success in this country.
Today, I have the privilege of working with bright young students from around the world. Generally, they are their country's best and brightest making a serious commitment to study in a foreign land and language. It does not surprise me that they do so well.
Today, I have the privilege of working with bright young students from around the world. Generally, they are their country's best and brightest making a serious commitment to study in a foreign land and language. It does not surprise me that they do so well.
8
Man, you must be nuts! Don't you understand that in the 21st century with planes and instant communication, we are all one world. Was it John Donne (16th century?) who said that we are all one body and when one part of the body is sick, the whole body is sick? He also wrote, in the midst of plague, "Any man's death diminishes me. Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."
In a stressed planet, where demographers agree that there are billions more of us than can have the basic necessities of life, you want to send people who have come to the "land of plenty" to certain death? Is that how you would relieve stress on the planet? Could you not instead advocate for Planned Parenthood and the gentle reduction of population in America and the world?
Who are you that The New York Times, in advocacy of freedom of speech, publishes your anti-human views?
In a stressed planet, where demographers agree that there are billions more of us than can have the basic necessities of life, you want to send people who have come to the "land of plenty" to certain death? Is that how you would relieve stress on the planet? Could you not instead advocate for Planned Parenthood and the gentle reduction of population in America and the world?
Who are you that The New York Times, in advocacy of freedom of speech, publishes your anti-human views?
3
Incarceration rates are low for illegal immigrants because district attorneys drop charges against them and turn them over to ICE for deportation. They never go to court or to prison. They go to detention centers to await deportation. The CATO study the author cites doesn't count them among the incarcerated.
1
Easily dismissed by Trump and his supporters. Fake News they will say. Well, as all these immigrants are summarily removed from the country, the "real" Americans can sit back and watch as the ship takes on more water. And who will they blame next. Yes, the shiftless African Americans. Kick them out next. Then we will really have something to be proud of. By then the billionaires will be trillionaires and the minimum wage will still be $8 dollars an hour. Just gives you that warm, fuzzy feeling, doesn't it?
3
"The rate of out-of-wedlock births for United States-born mothers exceeds the rate for foreign-born moms, 42 percent to 33 percent."
If you're talking about teen pregnancies, then sure, there's a somewhat of a problem.
If you're talking about adults, then which is it - common law relationships or single women?
And if it is, then what's the problem with non-married people having children?
If you're talking about teen pregnancies, then sure, there's a somewhat of a problem.
If you're talking about adults, then which is it - common law relationships or single women?
And if it is, then what's the problem with non-married people having children?
Russia's population is in marked decline, it needs more people, especially Christians. Trump and his supporters admire Putin as a strong leader. What better way to improve Russo-American relations than to send them people not needec here? As immigrants, they do very well.
18
A fair assessment. However, what is your answer to the fact that illegal migrants from places like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Somalia (to name just a few) can reach the U.S. southern borders, cross it with no identification papers and claim unverifiable persecution stories? If you simply must blank this out of your mind because it challenges your basic narrative, and therefore cant possibly perceive this a contemporary new kind of threat in an age of incessant Islamic terrorism, then a possible diagnoses to your problem might be to just read this piece in the Homeland Security Affairs Journal: https://www.hsaj.org/articles/10568.
4
Yet, those people are not doing so en masse.
You clearly miss the point of this piece, and the facts. Domestic terror, born and bred Americans are our greatest threat. Not immigrants from any of the places you mention. And in fact, none of the attacks on US soil have been committed by people from those nations. 9-11...remember that one...Saudis!
The greatest threat to the Republic is and has always been Americans! Usually angry white males. Be they like the guy the other day, or the Alex Jones's, white supremacy groups and their benefactors, or some people elected to office - who adopt destructive policies aimed at pretty much denying rights and justice to Americans, and non-citizens alike.
The author gets it right. So called "real Americans" are the bigger problem we face. The ones claiming to own "Patriot," who wear their alleged patriotism on their sleeves or heads, literally in too many cases, festoon their cars with regalia to announce their alleged patriotism, but have never read the Constitution, barely know the laws, and feel they have the privilege to break the ones they don't like at any moment.
Nah, I'd rather take my chances in a crowd of immigrants from the places you mention then be alone in a room with so-called real-Americans.
You clearly miss the point of this piece, and the facts. Domestic terror, born and bred Americans are our greatest threat. Not immigrants from any of the places you mention. And in fact, none of the attacks on US soil have been committed by people from those nations. 9-11...remember that one...Saudis!
The greatest threat to the Republic is and has always been Americans! Usually angry white males. Be they like the guy the other day, or the Alex Jones's, white supremacy groups and their benefactors, or some people elected to office - who adopt destructive policies aimed at pretty much denying rights and justice to Americans, and non-citizens alike.
The author gets it right. So called "real Americans" are the bigger problem we face. The ones claiming to own "Patriot," who wear their alleged patriotism on their sleeves or heads, literally in too many cases, festoon their cars with regalia to announce their alleged patriotism, but have never read the Constitution, barely know the laws, and feel they have the privilege to break the ones they don't like at any moment.
Nah, I'd rather take my chances in a crowd of immigrants from the places you mention then be alone in a room with so-called real-Americans.
3
Brett, such a comedian. Go on late night.
2
Real Americans," those who support the Donald, feel by their birth and level of affluence makes them entitled. Those same folks bemoan the impact of "illegal immigration." Yet are not willing to perform and provide the vital services that the "Real Americans" both demand and expect ranging from military service to working in nursing homes as well as picking the fruits and vegetables that the "Real Americans" consume. Those "Real Americans" forget that we are a nation of immigrants and immigration is vital to our national vitality. As soon as we realize that, we all can move forward. I am still touched by a student who approached me after class and ask why do they hate us so, when Senate Republicans killed the immigration bill. I am still wrestling with a truthful response as we all should.
10
Mass Deportation of Deplorables !
That would destroy the Grand Old Plantation party.
That would send the national IQ soaring.
Who would Fake News sell their conspiracy theories to ?
Who would Hate Radio peddle their fear and loathing to ?
Who would the National Terrorist Association sell their guns and bullets to ?
Who would the Republican Party hand out free samples of White Wonder Bread to ?
Who would be there to support the nightmare of massive voter suppression as the solution to America right-wing dreams ?
Who would be there to demand equal representation for the political view that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge' ?
Who would be there to enforce Christian Shariah Law, forced pregnancies and modern-day Salem Witch Trials ?
Who would be there to elect Governors to completely bankrupt their states with Tax-Cut-Nincompoopery ?
Who would Make The 2008 Economic Collapse Great Again ?
Who would be there to help elect a professional fraudster-grifter-prevaricator-groper and empty shell of a human being as the nation's Birther-Liar and Ignoramus-In-Chief.
Who would be there to drink up the Greed Oil Pollution that provides the recommended daily allowance of global warming, science denialism, and white spite that makes America an international idiot ?
America needs these Deplorables in order for the Nationally-Assisted-Suicide Grand Old Poison pill to work effectively.
"Free-dumb" is the ultimate solution.
Thank you, Party of Stupid.
That would destroy the Grand Old Plantation party.
That would send the national IQ soaring.
Who would Fake News sell their conspiracy theories to ?
Who would Hate Radio peddle their fear and loathing to ?
Who would the National Terrorist Association sell their guns and bullets to ?
Who would the Republican Party hand out free samples of White Wonder Bread to ?
Who would be there to support the nightmare of massive voter suppression as the solution to America right-wing dreams ?
Who would be there to demand equal representation for the political view that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge' ?
Who would be there to enforce Christian Shariah Law, forced pregnancies and modern-day Salem Witch Trials ?
Who would be there to elect Governors to completely bankrupt their states with Tax-Cut-Nincompoopery ?
Who would Make The 2008 Economic Collapse Great Again ?
Who would be there to help elect a professional fraudster-grifter-prevaricator-groper and empty shell of a human being as the nation's Birther-Liar and Ignoramus-In-Chief.
Who would be there to drink up the Greed Oil Pollution that provides the recommended daily allowance of global warming, science denialism, and white spite that makes America an international idiot ?
America needs these Deplorables in order for the Nationally-Assisted-Suicide Grand Old Poison pill to work effectively.
"Free-dumb" is the ultimate solution.
Thank you, Party of Stupid.
119
And whom would you and other NYT commenters rail against day after day? Whether a Congressman gunned down by a political terrorist or a columnist calling for the deportation of Americans who displease him, it's always the same response.
1
Mr. Trump's fear of people from "away" is instructive about his psychology. I'm a north American. Adoptive parents from Ontario (igrew up in NYC), birth parent from PA. 13 generations on one side, 10 on the other. All of them came from what is the UK now, from France, from Germany. My wife's families all came over on the first Mayflower. All of these people landed in the colonies. Many moved north, many stayed behind. They defined the invasion of north America, and they are all immigrants, just like the ancestors of Donald Trump. And in all of this we seem to ignore the prior claims of first nations. They were also immigrants.
2
Well, it's not a surprising dénouement for a country with 47,000 golf courses and twice as many malls. And now that there is an addiction epidemic in white suburbia, they just stay home and shop on Amazon. No they are not the Great White Hope, and Trump's plan is a superficial attempt to help working people, but is really the first step to weaken the country by isolating it, perhaps to enable a more nefarious plan to forge a return to fiefdom—we are halfway there already, as the "new" middle class is someone without health insurance, part-time jobs at WalMart and Costco, and a threat of foreclosure dogging their every step.
6
My family came over on the Mayflower. That fact signifies nothing for me except the fun of being able to trace ancestry. I was also born in 1953. I agree with Mr. Stephens but believe that Only Public Education Can Save America. I grew up the daughter of a high school American History teacher. A man who loved his country and who would be weeping today. My generation saw the building of what was once a great public school system with new buildings and new hope.
Even having to rename our high schools the John F. Kennedy HS did not dampen our belief in the future of America.
What does America commit itself to now? Public education is being torn apart with apathy and fevered dismantling by DC. A public school was not only a place for education but the building in which the community came together for all sorts of 'after school' events. America has let the buildings decay with age along with its commitment to the our children to prepare them for citizenship. Citizenship meant an education and then a job. Then maybe family and home ownership. That sequence of events has been cut short.
Even having to rename our high schools the John F. Kennedy HS did not dampen our belief in the future of America.
What does America commit itself to now? Public education is being torn apart with apathy and fevered dismantling by DC. A public school was not only a place for education but the building in which the community came together for all sorts of 'after school' events. America has let the buildings decay with age along with its commitment to the our children to prepare them for citizenship. Citizenship meant an education and then a job. Then maybe family and home ownership. That sequence of events has been cut short.
8
Well done, Mr. Stephens. Some commenters clearly don't get satire. Others get it but are still defensive. But your point is made well. We would all benefit from traveling to other parts of the world and then return home having recognized that there is a good reason that immigrants still want to come here. They appreciate the American Dream far more than the rest of us.
5
Not everyone appreciates satirizing everyday Americans like this. I look forward to Mr. Stephens' similarly styled column on climate change zealots.
1
Yes, many immigrants bring desirable traits with them, but religiosity is not one of them. The author seems to have forgotten the importance our founders placed on avoiding a state religion, as expressed in the First Amendment's establishment clause. The wisdom of that position is reconfirmed on a daily basis.
5
I am a first generation American. My parents and grandparents would be heartbroken by Trump's America. I know I am.
16
What a diatribe! Is it supposed to be refreshing to hear a conservative argue for immigrants, but denigrate and place blame for our national situation on lesser Americans?
It is just another conservative grasshopper speech. All the ants would be better off if they left the fiddle playing grasshoppers to starve. The new American mythology: Americans are fat, lazy entitled losers looking for handouts.
Reality is that we are in transition. People are noticing that they are getting worse off as they approach retirement; their kids are struggling to use the skills they have learned in college to form a comfortable life. We see a downward trajectory in our lives and out kids.
Corporations and employers today view people as a drain, a liability, not as assets or valuable capital. The nation is coming around to that view too. Jettison the people who are expensive; jettison experience; ignore education as a factor for improvement. Write off people you don't want to pay for, and build a narrative that they are not valuable.
This conservative narrative will sink us, as surely as it has sunk blue chip companies that keep cutting heads and still can't compete. Here is a clue - it ain't the workers who are the problem. It is leadership.
It is just another conservative grasshopper speech. All the ants would be better off if they left the fiddle playing grasshoppers to starve. The new American mythology: Americans are fat, lazy entitled losers looking for handouts.
Reality is that we are in transition. People are noticing that they are getting worse off as they approach retirement; their kids are struggling to use the skills they have learned in college to form a comfortable life. We see a downward trajectory in our lives and out kids.
Corporations and employers today view people as a drain, a liability, not as assets or valuable capital. The nation is coming around to that view too. Jettison the people who are expensive; jettison experience; ignore education as a factor for improvement. Write off people you don't want to pay for, and build a narrative that they are not valuable.
This conservative narrative will sink us, as surely as it has sunk blue chip companies that keep cutting heads and still can't compete. Here is a clue - it ain't the workers who are the problem. It is leadership.
607
While I agree that the country is in a major transition, this fact does not belie the solid facts in Mr. Stephens' piece. And, now, the two youngest generations of Americans is anti-capitalism with a full one third in favor socialism. Said another way, a substantial number of these two generations do not grasp personal responsibility and lean toward entitlement. This, in combination with the facts in Mr. Stephens' piece do not bode well for success with the transition facing the country.
If you want to change the "downward trajectory" stop blaming corporations and other "circumstances" and take personal responsibility to build a better future for yourself. The opportunities are as available today as much as they ever were in this country but one will go blind to them without first accepting that one's future is in one's hands.
If you want to change the "downward trajectory" stop blaming corporations and other "circumstances" and take personal responsibility to build a better future for yourself. The opportunities are as available today as much as they ever were in this country but one will go blind to them without first accepting that one's future is in one's hands.
Another reader that gets it...
Let's all stop beating around the bush. These days, in order to be "American", you need to be WHITE. Period.
No one wants to come right out and say it, but for all intensive purposes, that's the message; and it makes no difference if you were born here, or if your family has been here since the beginning of time.
Whether it's talk of mass deportations, building walls, travel bans, or voting limitations-- it's all to the same effect.
Now get ready for the "change" you voted for, and while you're at it...pack your bags.
No one wants to come right out and say it, but for all intensive purposes, that's the message; and it makes no difference if you were born here, or if your family has been here since the beginning of time.
Whether it's talk of mass deportations, building walls, travel bans, or voting limitations-- it's all to the same effect.
Now get ready for the "change" you voted for, and while you're at it...pack your bags.
6
FYI It's "for all intents and purposes "
After reading this elitist screed against Americans who don't measure up, it became clear why the NYT hired Mr. Stephens. Someone like Mr. Stephens naturally wouldn't concern himself with the finer points of a concept like "law and order." Even those lesser specimens he'd like to deport recognize that illegal immigration is, well, illegal a/k/a breaking the law.
6
Fantastic!!
I love it.
Thanks.
I love it.
Thanks.
2
Pew estimates that of the 11 million illegal immigrants in this country, 5.5 million are Mexican, 2.45 from Central and South America and 1.5 from Asia with the rest from Europe, Canada and the Middle East.
Does Stephens believe all these people are the engineers and business leaders of tomorrow or is there a possibility that many will be low wage, low skill and crowd out those jobs?
Does Stephens believe all these people are the engineers and business leaders of tomorrow or is there a possibility that many will be low wage, low skill and crowd out those jobs?
3
The political, corporate and ruling classes have just about given up on the suicide-prone native-born population and embraced new millions of marginally assimilated "Americans" to be plucked and exploited for commercial purposes.
Believe me many of us are yearning to leave the U.S. and not because of President Trump. I have been a citizen for 65 years and I'm just tired of the hassle of living in a country that never has quite gotten its act together for nearly 250 years.
Believe me many of us are yearning to leave the U.S. and not because of President Trump. I have been a citizen for 65 years and I'm just tired of the hassle of living in a country that never has quite gotten its act together for nearly 250 years.
6
Geez Bret, we don't agree on much, but you're right on here. My immigrant neighbors (Iran) who are now citizens know more about the Constitution than I do, and I'm a Ph.D. in anthropology and actually read this stuff. Probably the most patriotic Americans are the brand new ones, not the nitwits in your Party that are only interested in getting rid of them and enriching the already rich. Well then there's subjugating women and minorities, killing citizens by taking away health care, eliminating voting rights...
19
Stephens should brush up on his constitution, as Amendment 1 seems to be giving him a bit of trouble. Stephens says that there are "too many people who don't work hard, don't believe in God..." forgetting that the founders STRICTLY devised a SECULAR society, that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.
Nice job giving this revisionist history a platform, Times.
Stephens, I'm white, but I'm also a woman, and I don't believe in God: can I stay in your America?
Nice job giving this revisionist history a platform, Times.
Stephens, I'm white, but I'm also a woman, and I don't believe in God: can I stay in your America?
12
Not sure you quite caught the idea of this essay -- perhaps the author's fault in small part, but read it again anyway.
Did you not get the satire? He was parodying the Trumpist position. And obviously, those people doubt the "real American" status of non-Christians. The point is simply that immigrants check all the boxes of "real Americanness" that the Trumpistas claim they fail.
The problem with satire is that some people just don't get the joke.
The problem with satire is that some people just don't get the joke.
1
A former Arizona Board of Regents friend of mine told me, "it is the Hispanic students in our three state universities that outshine our 'gringo' students."
7
Interesting satirical essay. But there is something wrong with the statistical analysis that would disturb me if I were a black American and that does annoy me because I believe in rational thought rather than any gods.
5
Yes, and I am sure you meant that this statistical analysis should disturb even those who are not black since (based on a casual familiarity with the racial breakdown of the incarcerated/paroled population) Mr. Stephens satirically advocates sending a lot of people back to Africa. Har de har.
Thanks for the heads up Bret. We'll get to work on our extreme vetting right away.
5
Our family is friends with a Dreamer whose character and enthusiasm for the US confirms the main premise of this article. He started his own business and is a relentless worker, and so does the rest of his devote Catholic, law abiding and extremely hard working family. They have been in the US for 16 years and have made a life here including attending public school here in suburban Philadelphia.
This family has now lives under the threat that any one of them could be caught and deported. Sent back to a country my Dreamer and his brother left with their parents when they were 3 and 5 years old before coming to the US.
To deport them now would serve no purpose other than deprive them, and the people they know, love and serve, of the American Dream that seems to have been long forgotten by many Americans here among us. They serve a meaningful role in our society and yes, they pay taxes. They have vitality and enthusiasm for our country that really keeps America great.
I vote for Dreamers and their families to be able to find a path to citizenship through education and civics training. I abhor a president who wants to dismantle our dream, the Dreamer's dream, of the melting pot experiment, only out of vindictiveness of Obama's policies.
This family has now lives under the threat that any one of them could be caught and deported. Sent back to a country my Dreamer and his brother left with their parents when they were 3 and 5 years old before coming to the US.
To deport them now would serve no purpose other than deprive them, and the people they know, love and serve, of the American Dream that seems to have been long forgotten by many Americans here among us. They serve a meaningful role in our society and yes, they pay taxes. They have vitality and enthusiasm for our country that really keeps America great.
I vote for Dreamers and their families to be able to find a path to citizenship through education and civics training. I abhor a president who wants to dismantle our dream, the Dreamer's dream, of the melting pot experiment, only out of vindictiveness of Obama's policies.
19
Among other values we seem to be losing is the respect for hard work and achievement, based on equal opportunity. America was founded by people escaping the hierarchy of kings and queens, where the nobility did little work but lived in riches derived from the work of the underclass. America was founded to that people could own their own homes, build businesses and live well based on their skills and work. It was designed to be a land of opportunity based on individual strengths divorced from class considerations. Somewhere in the past 40 years we have lost that ethic. Time for a return to basics. Immigrants are leading the way.
9
I disagree with the premise of this article. There are currently nearly 6 million jobs that companies can't fill, and at least 2 million are STEM, particularly tech related. For those who are seeking a job but lack these skills, I don't think it's a matter of laziness or complacency. I think they lack awareness of what these jobs consist of, and guidance on how to obtain the skills necessary and in general of what it takes to pursue these careers.
3
As only 23% of STEM graduates work in associated fields I don't think it's a matter of producing enough prepared people to fill those jobs.
2
I'm a teacher in a high school. Do you truly believe that no one has tried to make students aware of STEM opportunities, offered guidance, and provided extra opportunities to learn such as tutoring, ramp-up classes, additional teachers, clubs, and activities? It is a constant. If given a choice between simply given the credit for a Science or Math class or given instruction so that one could earn the credit, I'm not sure that one would be able to find an American-born student who wouldn't choose grabbing the credit without acquiring the skills.
1
We have a program called DAPCEP that encourages students in the Detroit Metro area to pursue engineering and other STEM degrees.
Students who pursue these degrees tend to be those who have a parent (or parents) also working in a STEM related job.
The students also tend to be those who have a natural aptitude for math. There are few who have had to expend extra effort to pick up the math skills. This is where the country is failing.
Students who pursue these degrees tend to be those who have a parent (or parents) also working in a STEM related job.
The students also tend to be those who have a natural aptitude for math. There are few who have had to expend extra effort to pick up the math skills. This is where the country is failing.
1
The number of illegal immigrants in our jails and prisons is not known. All studies on this matter are based on assumptions partially determined by the researchers’ biases.
NYT writers (including the editorial writers) have previously written that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than citizens and have provided links to research. A reader could follow these links and see how the research studies have not been a simple matter of adding up solid numbers of prisoners across the country because no one knows these numbers. Rather, the studies have rested on assumptions made by the researchers.
Instead of continuing to state that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than citizens, as if it were a known fact, writers should be qualifying their statements. They could list all of the assumptions that the researchers of a particular study have made. But, once the writers have done this, many of their readers will realize that it is not known how many of the criminals in our jails and prisons are illegal immigrants.
NYT writers (including the editorial writers) have previously written that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than citizens and have provided links to research. A reader could follow these links and see how the research studies have not been a simple matter of adding up solid numbers of prisoners across the country because no one knows these numbers. Rather, the studies have rested on assumptions made by the researchers.
Instead of continuing to state that illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than citizens, as if it were a known fact, writers should be qualifying their statements. They could list all of the assumptions that the researchers of a particular study have made. But, once the writers have done this, many of their readers will realize that it is not known how many of the criminals in our jails and prisons are illegal immigrants.
7
Hybrid vigor is well studied scientifically and often observed in more casual situations. Who hasn't heard the stories of the overbred dog breeds that fall prey to disorders far too often unlike mixed breeds? So yes, let's mix it up in our human society with new people, new ideas, people of different backgrounds who speak many languages and think differently. We are lucky here in California to have welcomed immigrants who founded companies, attended colleges and universities, practiced different religions, enriched our cultural lives and even taught us about food from all around the world. And if course we're not alone. Immigrants have made all parts of America better in different ways at different times.
So why have we let our country succumb to the politics of fear and division, to look backwards instead of forwards, to withdraw from the world and look inward instead of outward? Make America great again? I would rather keep America great!
So why have we let our country succumb to the politics of fear and division, to look backwards instead of forwards, to withdraw from the world and look inward instead of outward? Make America great again? I would rather keep America great!
15
Although I agree with much of what is said here, I disagree that slow or no population growth should be considered a problem. Obviously the world's population cannot grow forever. Therefore, for any country's demographics not to go into a "death spiral" at some point in the future would require effectively "beggar thy neighbor" policies where one country's population growth is at the expense of another. The only kind of growth that should matter is per capita growth. And by that measure, Japan has not had a materially worse experience than other developed countries.
6
You make excellent points, Mr. Stephens, about the degree to which many Americans, whose forebears were immigrants themselves, have essentially become armchair citizens—lazy, complacent, and ignorant. But you fail to adequately address the underlying economic, political, and social factors which have led to such a sad state of affairs.
For example, the decline in "educational achievement" has certainly been impacted by cuts or underinvestment in school funding, hostility towards public education, a push towards privatization, and overemphasis on testing and rote knowledge versus more creative and innovative teaching methods. These trends can be largely attributed to the same politicians whose idea of governance is to reject government, embrace the free market above all else, and skew our laws and policies to disproportionately favor the wealthiest Americans at the expense of most "real Americans." In short, we are where we are for reasons beyond sheer laziness, complacency, and ignorance.
Thus, scapegoating or casting blame upon immigrants—who, as you note, contribute far more to this country than they're given credit for—is nothing more than a straw man cynically used to deflect attention from those truly responsible for this nation's decline. Until more of us "get" that and get up out of our armchairs, little will change and America's decline will continue.
For example, the decline in "educational achievement" has certainly been impacted by cuts or underinvestment in school funding, hostility towards public education, a push towards privatization, and overemphasis on testing and rote knowledge versus more creative and innovative teaching methods. These trends can be largely attributed to the same politicians whose idea of governance is to reject government, embrace the free market above all else, and skew our laws and policies to disproportionately favor the wealthiest Americans at the expense of most "real Americans." In short, we are where we are for reasons beyond sheer laziness, complacency, and ignorance.
Thus, scapegoating or casting blame upon immigrants—who, as you note, contribute far more to this country than they're given credit for—is nothing more than a straw man cynically used to deflect attention from those truly responsible for this nation's decline. Until more of us "get" that and get up out of our armchairs, little will change and America's decline will continue.
34
Some good points here but, I'll have to call B'S on your assertion that education funding has declined. Better check your facts on that one
1
I have been thinking of deporting myself since the last election. I am amazed at the many Americans who do not know about the three branches of government and think that voting is a huge inconvenience. They don't even know that in CA you can ask for the ballot to be mailed to your house. They hate the hard working immigrants who do hard jobs like picking crops even though they would never do that difficult work themselves. The LA Times reported that a grower bought land and started building a house in his suburban area for temporary guest workers and the neighbors burnt it down.
Many people feel they are the "real" Americans, but people from Mexico are also Americans. The Americas include Mexico and South America.
Many people feel they are the "real" Americans, but people from Mexico are also Americans. The Americas include Mexico and South America.
24
My parents came as immigrants from China almost 70 years ago. They worked 12 hrs daily in a small business 363 days of the year. Their children, including myself, helped in the business but we were also encouraged to get our education. All of us have graduate degrees and went onto professional careers. I always appreciated their sacrifice so that their children can get ahead and not have to toil as they did. What this country provided for the immigrants was safety from the turmoil of their own country and the opportunity to raise their family in an environment that allows them to thrive with a future.
It is not just raising the flag and mouthing the words that Americans are exceptional but actually doing something about it.
It is not just raising the flag and mouthing the words that Americans are exceptional but actually doing something about it.
32
As a second generation American, this hits home. Our family's story mirrors the premise of this op-ed. Immigrant - manual/skilled labor. First gen - college educated in night school. Second gen - 80% college educated, all with professional jobs, 40% with advanced degrees. Never a question about the value of education, the need to be involved in voting, public service, civic engagement. Immigrants are a powerhouse that we shun at our peril.
24
What ever happened to the idea of Congress working out a bipartisan immigration policy that would fulfill the needs of the country, while creating a road to either permanent residency and, possibly, citizenship for the illegals who are an integral part of making many of our industries function.
The hate and polarization must stop if we are going to be "great again". Trump has the right slogan but the wrong direction. He cannot lead us in the right direction. Too much of an egomaniac, power hungry, incapable, greedy man. OK, I'll stop there!
The hate and polarization must stop if we are going to be "great again". Trump has the right slogan but the wrong direction. He cannot lead us in the right direction. Too much of an egomaniac, power hungry, incapable, greedy man. OK, I'll stop there!
Great food for thought and reflection by Mr. Stephens—and speaks to the tension we face as a prosperous nation with an idealized history of welcoming immigrants. Some will immediately close their minds to Mr. Stephens' points and statistics—they are scary for some segments of our citizenry which have grown complacent on reality TV and Walmart prices and have unrealistic expectations of what they are owed. It's downright Darwinian to be faced with a considerable number of an Immigrant population who are driven, determined, and hungry to capitalize on opportunity. America's greatness was founded upon the energy and enterpreneurial spirit of immigrants, so the million-dollar question is, how do we continue to honor and welcome that wellspring of talent while imbuing our citizens with a healthy sense of competitiveness and drive for self-determination. That, I think, would make America great again.
12
Today's immigrants are tomorrow's non-immigrants. Relying on a constant stream of immigrants to cover up the problems of "Real Americans" is ultimately unsustainable.
11
Seems like it has worked for over 200 years.
Thank you fsharp.
It is precisely this 'unsustainability' that Mr. Stephens is writing about. Mr. Stephens argues, and quite persuasively, that it is likely you who is unsustainable with your dependency, dogma, and easy susceptibility to fear and loathing.
It is precisely this 'unsustainability' that Mr. Stephens is writing about. Mr. Stephens argues, and quite persuasively, that it is likely you who is unsustainable with your dependency, dogma, and easy susceptibility to fear and loathing.
2
This article more or less sums up my personal beliefs that have crystallized over the past two decades or so. Growing up in a remote valley nestled among the Himalayas, my intellectually formative years were shaped to a significant extent by the Voice of America, a US government funded broadcast agency, beaming its content across the world on shortwave radio frequencies. America was the land of my dreams, and thousands of miles away, I was as American as anyone born here. Eventually, I did physically (and legally) make it to the US and I truly appreciate what America has given me, esp. with respect to individual liberty and freedom. I do believe that those born here do not truly appreciate its greatness. I would never take the awesome responsibility of being a US citizen lightly.
I myself, and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of immigrants, remain thankful for our opportunity to carve out our tiny piece of existence in this great nation.
I myself, and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of immigrants, remain thankful for our opportunity to carve out our tiny piece of existence in this great nation.
34
This HS teacher in an affluent town in the Boston region sees too many mediocre students who are intelligent and often bright. Few get top grades. Those who do have excellent work ethics and the ability to concentrate on academics. The majority of "high achieving" students are oversubscribed with honors and AP courses, sports, and extracurricular activities. Colleges, college consultants, parents, guidance counselors, state education departments, and school accreditation organizations have all supported this overload. Anxiety levels are through the roof. Academic performance is steadily declining.
Finally -- and have you noticed -- toss the ubiquitous smart phone and constant connection into the mix. As wonderful as these gadgets may be they impede the development of the ability to focus and concentrate on hard work. They also enable group cheating. So, rather than revolutionizing learning, the gadgets are helping to foster a growing academic divide (which may wind up worsening the country's historic level of economic inequality).
The children of immigrants may have the upper hand under these circumstances. Growing up without privilege and with a focus on the family and achieving a higher standard of living they are probably willing to work harder than the majority of their American-born peers. And that's the bottom line that the writer points out.
Finally -- and have you noticed -- toss the ubiquitous smart phone and constant connection into the mix. As wonderful as these gadgets may be they impede the development of the ability to focus and concentrate on hard work. They also enable group cheating. So, rather than revolutionizing learning, the gadgets are helping to foster a growing academic divide (which may wind up worsening the country's historic level of economic inequality).
The children of immigrants may have the upper hand under these circumstances. Growing up without privilege and with a focus on the family and achieving a higher standard of living they are probably willing to work harder than the majority of their American-born peers. And that's the bottom line that the writer points out.
15
For once I agree with Mr. Stephens. Pew researchers have also learned that new immigrants are better educated than ever before and more likely to have a college degree than native-born Americans. Many so-called "real Americans" without a degree tend to be Trump supporters, so now we know whom to deport.
27
Christy – you are so right! In fact, I knew a couple of immigrants who became US citizens, but who actually went back to their native countries (Columbia, Sri Lanka), temporarily, just so their children could get a decent education, much better than they could get here. They were appalled at the poor quality of schools here.
5
And just watch the De Voss woman further damage it for the non affluent!
Going back to Sri Lanka really depends on where they are sending their child to school. Colombo has one of the world's best international schools (private,tuition paying) that costs $22,000 a year per high school student.
I agree that immigrants help make our country stronger. I often wonder why the president seems to hate everything that has made our country great - immigrants, public schools, environmental protections, the safety net (which shows we have a heart), civil liberties, clean air, etc. He wants to drive us back to coal instead of embracing new, alternative energies - that's not in the American spirit.
So I'm glad Bret talked about how immigrants make us stronger. I'm just sorry he had to include "belief in god" as an American virtue.
So I'm glad Bret talked about how immigrants make us stronger. I'm just sorry he had to include "belief in god" as an American virtue.
45
Anne - Contrary to what you believe or have been told by irresponsible hate-mongers in the media the president does not hate immigrants. He does however have a profound dislike for those foreigners who have entered or remain in the United States in violation of law.
Using the term "immigrant" when one is describing those foreigners who have entered or remain in the United States in violation of law is a dastardly way for left-wing, liberal, progressive Democrats to confound and confuse the stupid in America's society.
As Lewis Carroll wrote in Through the Looking Glass, "When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.” There are those who use words incorrectly with the intention to further an agenda.
Using the term "immigrant" when one is describing those foreigners who have entered or remain in the United States in violation of law is a dastardly way for left-wing, liberal, progressive Democrats to confound and confuse the stupid in America's society.
As Lewis Carroll wrote in Through the Looking Glass, "When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.” There are those who use words incorrectly with the intention to further an agenda.
I am the son of an immigrant. I grew up with my immigrant maternal grandparents. Most of my great aunts and uncles were immigrants. Most of my family members spoke with an accent. None of them were ever on the dole. Many owned small businesses. They all worked their entire lives. They were all true Americans.
I recently had the pleasure and honor of being a guest speaker at a University engineering class. At least 1/2 of the students spoke with an accent. Those that did were from Asia and Europe. Didn't take a census, the numbers could have been higher. Many others that spoke without an accent where nonwhite.
I checked the faculty roster of the engineering dept. Probably 90% were from south central Asia. I visited the Linda Hall Library, a world famous science library on campus and the vast majority of people studying and researching looked like they were cast in a Bollywood movie.
These people are not taking jobs from coal miners. They don't want to work in the mines or on assembly lines. They want to invent new products. Make discoveries. Teach science.
We have let ourselves down. By not providing the best public schools for all, by not providing a nurturing, developing environment for our kids, (except for the rich), we are creating a third world nation. The political ramifications are obvious. Look what's in the White House. Look who put him there. Look who still believes in him. Look at what he is doing and they think it's great.
I recently had the pleasure and honor of being a guest speaker at a University engineering class. At least 1/2 of the students spoke with an accent. Those that did were from Asia and Europe. Didn't take a census, the numbers could have been higher. Many others that spoke without an accent where nonwhite.
I checked the faculty roster of the engineering dept. Probably 90% were from south central Asia. I visited the Linda Hall Library, a world famous science library on campus and the vast majority of people studying and researching looked like they were cast in a Bollywood movie.
These people are not taking jobs from coal miners. They don't want to work in the mines or on assembly lines. They want to invent new products. Make discoveries. Teach science.
We have let ourselves down. By not providing the best public schools for all, by not providing a nurturing, developing environment for our kids, (except for the rich), we are creating a third world nation. The political ramifications are obvious. Look what's in the White House. Look who put him there. Look who still believes in him. Look at what he is doing and they think it's great.
146
I do not like the title of your article, but it did get my attention. Then reading it one gets a totally different picture. Accurate, concise and certainly an inconvenient truth. That is America today.
25
I agree with Mr Stephens about the general desirability of immigrants. I also am glad to see here in the comments that most concur. I have been troubled (shocked even) in recent years by the strong opposition in comments to editorials in the Times arguing for better and more just treatment of the undocumented. I often find myself nearly alone In support of the editorial.
By the way, I am a grandson of immigrants and travel extensively internationally on business so in a sense I could be called a 'xenophile', the very opposite of a xenophobe.
Immigrants are the lifeblood and engine of renewal that made this country what it was until recently. They bring good things with them, their food and culture, as well.
By the way, I am a grandson of immigrants and travel extensively internationally on business so in a sense I could be called a 'xenophile', the very opposite of a xenophobe.
Immigrants are the lifeblood and engine of renewal that made this country what it was until recently. They bring good things with them, their food and culture, as well.
13
We, along ten thousand others, came here from Poland as political refugees. We have been grateful to this country for welcoming us while the country of our birth not only expelled us but also stripped us of our citizenship.
Our group of immigrants did very well here: they achieved success in such diverse fields as academia, law, medicine, and technology. We have been always grateful for allowing us to become a melting pot, something that was impossible in the country of our birth where more than 500 years of being there was not enough to be a full-fledged Pole.
Trump, and fifty percent of those who voted for him, are an anathema to everything we believe in. His presidency cause moments when we think of packing and going somewhere else, but those moments are quickly replaced by commitment to staying and fighting for OUR country so that it reclaims its image of liberal democracy, the image that has been so valued by those who come to its shores.
Our group of immigrants did very well here: they achieved success in such diverse fields as academia, law, medicine, and technology. We have been always grateful for allowing us to become a melting pot, something that was impossible in the country of our birth where more than 500 years of being there was not enough to be a full-fledged Pole.
Trump, and fifty percent of those who voted for him, are an anathema to everything we believe in. His presidency cause moments when we think of packing and going somewhere else, but those moments are quickly replaced by commitment to staying and fighting for OUR country so that it reclaims its image of liberal democracy, the image that has been so valued by those who come to its shores.
19
Who would would take the people Stephens wants to deport? They couldn't make it anywhere. If not for the effect on their innocent children, I'd say cut em off.
17
Bret Stephens waste most of his editorial comparing native-born Americans to immigrants—not illegal immigrants. America accepts about one million legal immigrant each year, and no one is talking of deporting them. Legal immigrants are screened to eliminate those with criminal histories, which account for their low incarceration rates. Legal immigration produces a highly diverse stream of immigrants who come speaking a multitude of languages from a multitude of countries and cultures. Their tremendous diversity encourages them to assimilate and acculturate into American society rather than coalescing in racial and ethnic enclaves. They also tend to possess the skills and education required to flourish in U.S. society. Illegal immigration produces a non-diverse, low-skilled and poorly educated stream of migrants who lack the skills and education required to assimilate, acculturate and flourish in U.S. society.
13
Maybe you should read more closely. Mr. Stephens did write about illegal immigrants, not only legal ones.
3
He is just making the point that, if resentment is to be bred, it should be towards people who have been for several generations, because they are generally too complacent, compared to both legal and illegal immigrants.
2
You are repeating the half-truths or downright lies Fox and its kind produce.
The "unskilled illegals" do the jobs NO American wants to do and no employer wants to pay for. Many people who start this way know the answer: education for better opportunities.
Even in that case, and with native-born Americans (or third-generation Americans from families of LEGAL immigrants), the people who demonize immigrants and Muslims nowadays also has a twisted form of workplace "ethics" which callously use up people and their talents and then spit them out like bones from chicken. We saw the full fatal flowering of this in Camp Dora in the Mittelwerk in 1944, when V2 missiles were assembled in a facility dug out of mountain by concentration-camp inmates who were starved and worked to death. (I think you'd have no qualms about this sort of thing.)
Today there should be opportunities for EVERYBODY, not just white folks with connections. Everyone has a talent to develop and contribute to a better world.
The "unskilled illegals" do the jobs NO American wants to do and no employer wants to pay for. Many people who start this way know the answer: education for better opportunities.
Even in that case, and with native-born Americans (or third-generation Americans from families of LEGAL immigrants), the people who demonize immigrants and Muslims nowadays also has a twisted form of workplace "ethics" which callously use up people and their talents and then spit them out like bones from chicken. We saw the full fatal flowering of this in Camp Dora in the Mittelwerk in 1944, when V2 missiles were assembled in a facility dug out of mountain by concentration-camp inmates who were starved and worked to death. (I think you'd have no qualms about this sort of thing.)
Today there should be opportunities for EVERYBODY, not just white folks with connections. Everyone has a talent to develop and contribute to a better world.
Sure, if you compare an elite group, immigrants, with an entire population, natives, the elite group will look better. People who emigrate from their native countries are, in general, the smartest, most motivated to succeed, of their native populations. Compare, for example, Americans living in London with the general population of the UK and you'll undoubtedly find that the Americans innovative and produce to a greater degree.
For globalization to really work, the best and brightest of any country should feel that they have an equal opportunity to learn, succeed and live a happy life both in their home country and, if they choose, in a foreign land. Likewise, people from America and Europe should see places like China, Vietnam, Kenya and India, for example, as viable alternatives to live and work. What this article describes is a world where people still see the US (and increasingly, Europe) as the land of opportunity, and will do anything to get here, leaving their home countries with a shortage of talent.
For globalization to really work, the best and brightest of any country should feel that they have an equal opportunity to learn, succeed and live a happy life both in their home country and, if they choose, in a foreign land. Likewise, people from America and Europe should see places like China, Vietnam, Kenya and India, for example, as viable alternatives to live and work. What this article describes is a world where people still see the US (and increasingly, Europe) as the land of opportunity, and will do anything to get here, leaving their home countries with a shortage of talent.
10
As an immigrant and small business owner who came here 36 years ago from Middle Europe I could not agree more with your points on ambitiousness, education, and the general urge to improve conditions for this country. The comfortable masses of long time non-immigrants often just wave the flag and proclaim this the "best country in the world" while doing little to advance it, but many are the same ones that call for the deportation of newcomers, who often have the hunger and vision to actually move things forward to compete with the world around us.
73
Count me as one who wishes I could deport myself.
A retired sole proprietor, I was always very hard-working. Responsible. Law-abiding. Have a quirky belief in a loving God, who, like me is puzzled by this country's strange brand of aggressive Christianity.
Indeed, I am puzzled by this country. I can't identify at all with the worship of flags, the pledging of allegiance like a religious ritual, and the expectation that patriotism is some brand of lock-step religion.
Do I believe in the values of the Declaration of Indepence? Very much so! More than the Founders, who voiced equality, but didn't practice it. I feel betrayed by this. Just as I feel betrayed by America's brand of Christianity, where flags and the cross are worshipped together.
I'm all for immigrants - am married to one. Know several languages. Prefer multiculturalism to regimentation. Whether religious or civic rituals. The one civic ritual I love is Thanksgiving - which was multicultural from its inception!
I love all religions. And all people who sincerely live out the values of their faith, I love you! A caring atheist? I love you too! But patriotism, as a civic religion, a cult of flag, no, I'm sorry... there's too much pressure to salute in unison. And that scares me! It seems robotic. It's led, I fear, to our current political predicament.
I look at other nations where healthcare and social services are a human rights. Nations more democratic and caring. Give me that!
A retired sole proprietor, I was always very hard-working. Responsible. Law-abiding. Have a quirky belief in a loving God, who, like me is puzzled by this country's strange brand of aggressive Christianity.
Indeed, I am puzzled by this country. I can't identify at all with the worship of flags, the pledging of allegiance like a religious ritual, and the expectation that patriotism is some brand of lock-step religion.
Do I believe in the values of the Declaration of Indepence? Very much so! More than the Founders, who voiced equality, but didn't practice it. I feel betrayed by this. Just as I feel betrayed by America's brand of Christianity, where flags and the cross are worshipped together.
I'm all for immigrants - am married to one. Know several languages. Prefer multiculturalism to regimentation. Whether religious or civic rituals. The one civic ritual I love is Thanksgiving - which was multicultural from its inception!
I love all religions. And all people who sincerely live out the values of their faith, I love you! A caring atheist? I love you too! But patriotism, as a civic religion, a cult of flag, no, I'm sorry... there's too much pressure to salute in unison. And that scares me! It seems robotic. It's led, I fear, to our current political predicament.
I look at other nations where healthcare and social services are a human rights. Nations more democratic and caring. Give me that!
507
Nothing is stopping you from leaving, just find your local airport, then you can leave all this mess behind you.....
You will not.
You will not.
1
The junior Senator from California recently bragged that over half the children of her state are on Medicaid. Many are part of multi-generational welfare-dependent families, who have decided to accept the low standard of living that various handout programs provide, instead of working for a living. Do you really think it's conservatives Mr. Stephens is talking about?
6
you make a valid point, then wreck it by turning it partisan. multi-generational welfare-dependent families are a problem indicative of other problems. these problems need to be solved; "conservative" approaches are no better than "liberal" ones. we tried liberal solutions extensively, and it is clear they did not work. so now we're trying equally flawed conservative solutions.
it's quite possible that you cited this bragging out of context. Medicaid coverage of a population could be a very good thing or not, depending on the details.
it's quite possible that you cited this bragging out of context. Medicaid coverage of a population could be a very good thing or not, depending on the details.
11
He's talking about Trump voters in Appalachia for sure.
Yes, we need to put those children to work! No time for school.
More birth control! Make them stop having kids all the time! Less children means less health problems that we have to pay for.
Or maybe just let the kids get sick and die.
Health Care is a right; not a luxury or even a low standard that you can live off of. Health Care is not fun.
Where I live, seems like everybody I know gets some kind of government check, mostly for kids or disability or old age. Kentucky is a deep red state.
Kentucky gets more federal tax dollars back home than what we pay in.
California pays more taxes to the Federal government than what they get back.
Doesn't seem fair.
More birth control! Make them stop having kids all the time! Less children means less health problems that we have to pay for.
Or maybe just let the kids get sick and die.
Health Care is a right; not a luxury or even a low standard that you can live off of. Health Care is not fun.
Where I live, seems like everybody I know gets some kind of government check, mostly for kids or disability or old age. Kentucky is a deep red state.
Kentucky gets more federal tax dollars back home than what we pay in.
California pays more taxes to the Federal government than what they get back.
Doesn't seem fair.
Well said, Mr. Stephens. As a teacher i see so much complacence, stagnation, and entitlement among my students that it is difficult to imagine them stepping into responsible roles in adulthood. I can only hope that yes, they are young, and people can grow and change, but the habits they have learned will be hard to break.
20
Maybe we should start by deporting the president who seems to be doing everything he can to deface this nation.
We immigrated in 1998, our younger son was born here. I have a successful career. Maybe I should be more thankful for the opportunities I was offered here. Of course it was a give and take. My services are needed here. But since the election of Donald Trump no day passes that I am not thinking about leaving. Maybe immigrants are more sensitive to the self destructive forces Donald Trump has unleashed. Growing up in a country that went through self destruction and committed atrocities, has equipped me with an early warning system. History has taught me that people don't realize the vulnerability of so called rock bed institutions. They crumble in no time if they loose the support of enough people.
The real loss are the potential immigrants who will pause or go somewhere else to let their talents flourish. Yes this country is built on the innovation and vigor of immigrants, legal or undocumented. And that pillar has cracked.
We immigrated in 1998, our younger son was born here. I have a successful career. Maybe I should be more thankful for the opportunities I was offered here. Of course it was a give and take. My services are needed here. But since the election of Donald Trump no day passes that I am not thinking about leaving. Maybe immigrants are more sensitive to the self destructive forces Donald Trump has unleashed. Growing up in a country that went through self destruction and committed atrocities, has equipped me with an early warning system. History has taught me that people don't realize the vulnerability of so called rock bed institutions. They crumble in no time if they loose the support of enough people.
The real loss are the potential immigrants who will pause or go somewhere else to let their talents flourish. Yes this country is built on the innovation and vigor of immigrants, legal or undocumented. And that pillar has cracked.
91
I came to this country because it offered freedom from religion. Nowhere in the constitution does it expect me to become a Christian and I am annoyed that I have to keep reminding so-called Americans of that. But it is good to see that the right can try to do satire (not very well but keep trying).
P.S. Intel no longer runs its Talent Search, you should have reference the one that still functions, The Siemens (which is actually more science based than the Intel was), and it would have boosted your praise for immigrants (both winners and the company that runs it).
P.S. Intel no longer runs its Talent Search, you should have reference the one that still functions, The Siemens (which is actually more science based than the Intel was), and it would have boosted your praise for immigrants (both winners and the company that runs it).
24
If you came here for freedom from religion, I'm afraid you were misinformed. Our Constitution guarantees free excercise of religion. Citizens are expected to be tolerant of that.
3
Freedom of religion also means that each of us has the countervailing right to be free from your religion or any religion. Please read some constitutional law cases on this point. Tolerance goes both ways.
28
No where does the OP imply he wished to impose his religion upon others.
The willingness of so many to misread or hear what others say may be indicative of their own bias or animus.
"Cast out first the mote in thine own eye"
The willingness of so many to misread or hear what others say may be indicative of their own bias or animus.
"Cast out first the mote in thine own eye"
6
Any op-ed that deals with immigration but fails to distinguish between legal immigration and illegal immigration is destined to be a confused analysis that fails to address the other sides main points. Legal immigration and illegal immigration are two different matters that share few similarities.
29
Really? The illegal immigrants I know work twice as hard as most native born.
20
Most "illegal immigration" is visa overstays and has been below net zero for a decade. Failing to recognize those facts is a willful ignorance which obviates any point you were flailing toward.
Someone doesn't know what satire is.
1
The CATO study Bret Stephens shows incarceration rates, not crime rates. Illegal immigrants who commit crimes are less likely to be incarcerated than natives because charges against most illegal immigrants are dropped. They are deported instead of incarcerated. When police departments arrest illegal immigrants, they notify ICE. ICE asks the district attorneys to drop charges, and the district attorneys almost always comply. ICE takes custody of the illegal immigrants and transports them to detention centers where they await deportation.
25
That's so completely incorrect that it beggars belief. Until Trump, prosecutors rarely if ever called ICE. Police and prosecutors despise ICE and have no obligation to do their job for them.
As the old saying goes, "you can't see the forest for the trees" Restricting your comment solely to the issue of criminality you totally missed. Just like our immigrant ancestors many new arrivals are highly motivated to succeed, are highly disciplined, and out compete far too many Americans at our elite universities-as well as in the workplace. Want jobs done well in this country look first to new arrivals who still understand how to work hard and appreciate the opportunities to better themselves and provide for their families. At the lowest level, as an example, deport all the illegal farm workers and the illegal construction workers and see what happens. Recruiting "real" Americans, en mass, to do these jobs is a joke.
1
So, they could be innocent. That is what you are saying. No judicial process, just deport anyone who is arrested.
Yes, sir, I certainly think of myself as the child of immigrants. Even though my mother was born in USA, she didn't speak English until third grade. Knowing two languages never held either of my parents back. However, not coming from old money or not coming over on the Mayflower never was a particular advantage.
But let's not start pointing fingers. If anything my family lived in a close community, mining and farming country in Pennsylvania and seriously, assimilated as well as the other groups, including those of possibly less remarkable heritage such as the Americans ('Mericanos).
But it is detestable for someone such as you or me, intelligent, and articulate and not so disadvantaged that we should stoop to the behavior of those who are trying to wall off the USA and secede from the world. Tell that to the multinational companies who hold little allegiance to any nation and spend more time growing money in offshore accounts than in strengthening the melting pots here in the backyard.
Perhaps if we look more closely and recognize that people do not always group by some striking characteristic but rather by some less visible such as "social" clubs or "country"
clubs or whoever they may be or what costume or garb they drape so as to recognize each other. It's inclusion, not exclusion, that is what keeps us working together and that includes native Americans and DAR and ISDA and the rest of us. IMHO.
But let's not start pointing fingers. If anything my family lived in a close community, mining and farming country in Pennsylvania and seriously, assimilated as well as the other groups, including those of possibly less remarkable heritage such as the Americans ('Mericanos).
But it is detestable for someone such as you or me, intelligent, and articulate and not so disadvantaged that we should stoop to the behavior of those who are trying to wall off the USA and secede from the world. Tell that to the multinational companies who hold little allegiance to any nation and spend more time growing money in offshore accounts than in strengthening the melting pots here in the backyard.
Perhaps if we look more closely and recognize that people do not always group by some striking characteristic but rather by some less visible such as "social" clubs or "country"
clubs or whoever they may be or what costume or garb they drape so as to recognize each other. It's inclusion, not exclusion, that is what keeps us working together and that includes native Americans and DAR and ISDA and the rest of us. IMHO.
8
Capitalist reasoning applied to citizenship: you are only valuable to the company/country as long as you can prove you are worth more than all the other potential employees/citizens out there...
You aren't? You're out, we'll replace you with a more productive one....
You aren't? You're out, we'll replace you with a more productive one....
13
You do not seem to understand what toppled down monarchies and dictatorship: the belief that a government, leaders, or any system should cease to exist if it does not prove to be useful to the whole society. How does this principle sound to you? Capitalistic or socialistic? Indeed, in socialism, individual rights are more constrained than they are by capitalism because that's the whole point of socialism. That's why socialistic governments gave rise to dictatorship: a truly utilitarian society in an unexpected way. It is so funny that many folks (even a Harvard philosopher, Sandel) equate capitalism with utilitarianism while socialism is even closer to utilitarianism. So, I think it is a superstition to think that it is only capitalism which sacrifices individuals. Capitalism vs socialism is just a meaningless dogma which is no better than any kind of superstition.
Stephens also espouses an updated 2017 version of Marxist/Leninist hatred of the peasantry. His contempt is not even hidden. "Who would take the U.S. working class?" he asks.
1
It makes about a third of non-immigrants nervous and resentful when they see media displays of diversity and the contributions of immigrants. They no longer recognize the national social environment and it doesn't correspond with their immediate social environment. It's like being in a room full of geniuses, you know there are conversations going on that you don't understand and you don't know why, so you get uneasy. There's a choice here, you can stay in the room or you can evict everyone else.
18
Bravo, brilliantly stated.
22
As a father of Chinese immigrants, I agree with Bret. Daughters Pearl, 18, and Jade, 15 – our family jewels – are ending their school year with straight A’s. Pearl’s worked after in a day-care for three years. She leaves soon for to college with dreams of becoming a pediatric nurse. Jade has volunteered in an interfaith food pantry for a year and wants to become a veterinarian. They care about their fellow creatures.
OK, my wife and I, native-born Americans, adopted our daughters. And, yes, they know nothing of the immigrant experience. They’ve always identified as Americans.
However, their foreign births sparked family discussions about their identity. Every so often, my wife and I gently probe their thoughts about being born in China. We discuss what their lives might have been like there – leaving open the possibility that, with the rise of China, their lives might have even have been better.
We discuss what it means to be an American, the ideals of America, and how we as a nation have struggled – sometimes unsuccessfully – to achieve those noble ideals. And we discuss how and why other immigrants, including many of their classmates’ families, chose to come here.
The bottom line is Pearl and Jade had to think about who they are, not as China-born adoptees, but as Americans. I believe our discussions motivated our immigrant daughters to become the thoughtful, gracious and appreciative Americans they are today … and will serve to guide them into their future.
OK, my wife and I, native-born Americans, adopted our daughters. And, yes, they know nothing of the immigrant experience. They’ve always identified as Americans.
However, their foreign births sparked family discussions about their identity. Every so often, my wife and I gently probe their thoughts about being born in China. We discuss what their lives might have been like there – leaving open the possibility that, with the rise of China, their lives might have even have been better.
We discuss what it means to be an American, the ideals of America, and how we as a nation have struggled – sometimes unsuccessfully – to achieve those noble ideals. And we discuss how and why other immigrants, including many of their classmates’ families, chose to come here.
The bottom line is Pearl and Jade had to think about who they are, not as China-born adoptees, but as Americans. I believe our discussions motivated our immigrant daughters to become the thoughtful, gracious and appreciative Americans they are today … and will serve to guide them into their future.
54
Why is believing in god "especially the Christian variety" a factor? The 1st amendment says the opposite. This is more that a political rights issue. This article represents a selected view of American history where everyone believed the same thing. That wasn't true then, it isn't now. And it shouldn't be ever.
63
Simple answer, deborah45.
Bret Stephens is juxtaposing the desires of certain Trump supporters who wish to reduce or eliminate immigration. Many (most?) of these supporters are Christians who support Christianity. By pointing out that the immigrant pool is more Christian than is the pool of citizens, Stephens essentially mocks the anti-immigrant citizens. In other words, Stephens doesn't advocate a Christian America. Not really. Rather, he pokes fun at an anti-immigrant and Christian wing of Trump's supporters.
(On a related note, Stephens plays fast and loose with certain stats to make this juxtaposition work, and I suspect Stephens knows this quite well, which means he has just engaged in some editorial legerdemain. For shame, Mr. Stephens! For shame!)
Bret Stephens is juxtaposing the desires of certain Trump supporters who wish to reduce or eliminate immigration. Many (most?) of these supporters are Christians who support Christianity. By pointing out that the immigrant pool is more Christian than is the pool of citizens, Stephens essentially mocks the anti-immigrant citizens. In other words, Stephens doesn't advocate a Christian America. Not really. Rather, he pokes fun at an anti-immigrant and Christian wing of Trump's supporters.
(On a related note, Stephens plays fast and loose with certain stats to make this juxtaposition work, and I suspect Stephens knows this quite well, which means he has just engaged in some editorial legerdemain. For shame, Mr. Stephens! For shame!)
1
I agree. That was the one part of the essay I didn't like.
I believe he wrote that because Christians are the majority religion and quite a few Christians are leaders in the deportation theme prevalent today.
Not sure if I agree with Stephens across the board, especially once one takes into account the real world economic challenges that unregulated population growth presents to any nation (like an ever-rising cost of housing), but he does point out the almost criminal complacency of a certain segment of the native born American population - a segment that has come to believe it is somehow 'exceptional' merely because it won the life lottery, and was born here rather than somewhere else.
The Founding Generation was truly exceptional, especially for their time. Other generations of Americans have also demonstrated an exceptional character. But many current native born Americans, especially among that group most hostile to anything deemed foreign, are frankly exceptional only in areas where one should be ashamed instead of boastful - exceptional dumb, bigoted, backwards, and embarrassing, a class of people that absolutely includes our current President.
I would also differ with Stephens in his emphasis on religiosity; I would argue that the wrong kind of religiosity is a big part of the problem, the kind that allows people to imagine that they are somehow 'saved' whereas whereas everyone else who disagrees with their myopic, largely ignorant approach to spirituality and politics is damned.
This numbness of mind is what you get by listening to too many carnival barkers selling ecclesiastical snake oil intended to mentally deaden rather than challenge, awaken, and enlighten.
The Founding Generation was truly exceptional, especially for their time. Other generations of Americans have also demonstrated an exceptional character. But many current native born Americans, especially among that group most hostile to anything deemed foreign, are frankly exceptional only in areas where one should be ashamed instead of boastful - exceptional dumb, bigoted, backwards, and embarrassing, a class of people that absolutely includes our current President.
I would also differ with Stephens in his emphasis on religiosity; I would argue that the wrong kind of religiosity is a big part of the problem, the kind that allows people to imagine that they are somehow 'saved' whereas whereas everyone else who disagrees with their myopic, largely ignorant approach to spirituality and politics is damned.
This numbness of mind is what you get by listening to too many carnival barkers selling ecclesiastical snake oil intended to mentally deaden rather than challenge, awaken, and enlighten.
40
This is an excellent article that should be in every classroom. It should be pinned to the bulletin board in our local coffee shops. It should be copied into every church bulletin. It should be on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. We are more alike in every way as humans - than we are different. If we are to live together peacefully - we must first heal our own spirit - and then see the good in others. Pollyanaish - Yep! As I type these words, even though I strongly believe them and try to live by them - my heart is still heavy this morning when I think of the leadership of this country. I am ok with taking care of our country first - but not a select few - everyone. Thank you Bret Stephens for your insightful column.
18
While I don't usually agree with the content of your column, I find myself (for a change), in complete agreement. Well said, sir!
13
I have two problems with this.
First: generalizations mask many important truths. There is something about the willingness to take big risks, emigrating to a foreign country or pulling up stakes and going to another part of the USA, that says something important about the risk-takers.
As Mr. Stephens says, immigrants from other countries are generally law-abiding and hard-working. But so are millions of native-born people. For me, the underlying reality is that, contrary to conservative ideology, it's not just about what individuals can do for themselves.
Second: despite its many benefits, immigration is a threat to the established culture. The fact that this threat exists requires recognizing that people react to what they perceive as unwanted changes to "their" culture. The influx of refugees to Europe is a real challenge.
To get to a new stability, nations have to take positive action. Putting up walls will not stop the flow of people who are responding to crises in their homelands.
We have about 11 million undocumented immigrants in the USA. That's a lot of people. Many of them have been here for years and have assimilated as much as their illegal status allows.
Many were "invited" in to fill jobs that the native-born didn't want to do for the wages offered. Mr. Stephens points out that deporting the native-borns isn't a good option, but neither is deporting people living in the shadows with no meaningful connections to their countries of origin.
First: generalizations mask many important truths. There is something about the willingness to take big risks, emigrating to a foreign country or pulling up stakes and going to another part of the USA, that says something important about the risk-takers.
As Mr. Stephens says, immigrants from other countries are generally law-abiding and hard-working. But so are millions of native-born people. For me, the underlying reality is that, contrary to conservative ideology, it's not just about what individuals can do for themselves.
Second: despite its many benefits, immigration is a threat to the established culture. The fact that this threat exists requires recognizing that people react to what they perceive as unwanted changes to "their" culture. The influx of refugees to Europe is a real challenge.
To get to a new stability, nations have to take positive action. Putting up walls will not stop the flow of people who are responding to crises in their homelands.
We have about 11 million undocumented immigrants in the USA. That's a lot of people. Many of them have been here for years and have assimilated as much as their illegal status allows.
Many were "invited" in to fill jobs that the native-born didn't want to do for the wages offered. Mr. Stephens points out that deporting the native-borns isn't a good option, but neither is deporting people living in the shadows with no meaningful connections to their countries of origin.
9
And the solution is to stop all deportations, thus forcing Congress to take up debate on a bill designed to revamp our antiquated immigration laws. Then, after this is done, deportations can be done. It just won't be a large deportation as many Republicans are pushing for.
Instead of seeing foreign ways as a "threat", can we see them instead as an enrichment? Of course that is easy for me to say, as my mother was not even born here (but in Ukraine) and there may come a time when I as a Jew will not be considered "native". (It has happened before and could well happen again.) Yet living as I do in a polyglot neighborhood, I am invigorated. The non-English that I hear is mostly Spanish, but Yiddish, Chinese, Turkish, and even Nepalese (I had to ask) are in the mix.
I suppose that fear and resentment of strangers and their strange ways is hard-wired in most humans to some degree. But then so is the urge to kill, to commit adultery, and other bad things that we institute laws and social codes to suppress.
I can only surmise that the resentment and suspicion that so poison our atmosphere occur in people who are basically insecure in their own identities as individuals and so must derive them from a group identity. Naturally they would be threatened by seeing others who can thrive without such a recourse and assume the worst about the other. It is a dodge to hide from themselves the truth about themselves under a protective armor of anger.
I suppose that fear and resentment of strangers and their strange ways is hard-wired in most humans to some degree. But then so is the urge to kill, to commit adultery, and other bad things that we institute laws and social codes to suppress.
I can only surmise that the resentment and suspicion that so poison our atmosphere occur in people who are basically insecure in their own identities as individuals and so must derive them from a group identity. Naturally they would be threatened by seeing others who can thrive without such a recourse and assume the worst about the other. It is a dodge to hide from themselves the truth about themselves under a protective armor of anger.
1
Interesting except in my experience U.S. women with extraordinary work ethic, education, determination, business creation credibility and true dedication to the country do NOT get hired and/or fair pay. Lots of those native born, multi generational men are slackers or expect special treatment.
At 70, I will give some credit to the millennials with whom I have worked for being more fair minded tho demanding of either expertise or an intense learning curve (not "leaning in" btw). Gender bias is still there but is of the math/geek/boys club immaturity type. I do wonder how they will behave when or if that age group matures. Then again many of those millennials have been immigrants and open to work ethic and respect for age.
At 70, I will give some credit to the millennials with whom I have worked for being more fair minded tho demanding of either expertise or an intense learning curve (not "leaning in" btw). Gender bias is still there but is of the math/geek/boys club immaturity type. I do wonder how they will behave when or if that age group matures. Then again many of those millennials have been immigrants and open to work ethic and respect for age.
4
This is not going to help Mr. Stephens with his conservative friends, as he, in effect, is advocating their deportation.
12
I find that those who have "been here forever" are much more likely to be very liberal......suggests there are layers and layers to this article. Stephens makes an essential point about entitlement, as in, "I am entitled to the America my great-grandfather was born in!"
While the points are interesting, Stephens has constructed a nifty piece of satire, something pretty rare these days.
While the points are interesting, Stephens has constructed a nifty piece of satire, something pretty rare these days.
1
I hope you are intelligent enough to discern that the whole point of the article was tongue in check. He is not actually advocating deportation of american citizens.
1
1. What makes you think they'll recognise themselves?
2. Whether they admit recognising themselves or not, the defining characteristic of this group is the reflex to point the finger at "them", whether "them" is across the globe, across the street or heck, across the dining table.
2. Whether they admit recognising themselves or not, the defining characteristic of this group is the reflex to point the finger at "them", whether "them" is across the globe, across the street or heck, across the dining table.
Don't believe in God? First of all, pick up a copy of the constitution, you might learn something important about religion and the doctrine of freedom. Second, check your piety at the door, unless of course you are eight years old and too young to realise that reasonable people may not believe in "your fairy tale".
26
Mr. Stephens, Many of the people you describe were born in the United States!
3
Marion, that is his point. Did you not read the "rest of the story"?
Yeah, that's the whole crux of his piece
1
Now that the US left the Paris climate accord, I think Mr Stephens job is done. His convoluted writing is painful to read anyway. You can literally feel the pain he has coming up with something.
4
Aren't these the Trump-voting "deplorables" that Hillary described? I applaud you for stating how unproductive these people are, but how about going one step further and saying how terribly detrimental and damaging to America they really are?
By the way, if you weren't the child of immigrants, I bet you wouldn't have written this article. Like most Republicans, you are most probably not empathetic, and you can only understand immigrants because you were the child of immigrants. I really hope you examine that topic and reflect on Republican lack of empathy in a future article. Just watch...Republican Representative Steve Scalise is going to come out in favor of gun control in the future because of the terrible thing that happened to him...but not because of the same terrible thing that happened to so many other people, especially powerless people.
By the way, if you weren't the child of immigrants, I bet you wouldn't have written this article. Like most Republicans, you are most probably not empathetic, and you can only understand immigrants because you were the child of immigrants. I really hope you examine that topic and reflect on Republican lack of empathy in a future article. Just watch...Republican Representative Steve Scalise is going to come out in favor of gun control in the future because of the terrible thing that happened to him...but not because of the same terrible thing that happened to so many other people, especially powerless people.
13
There goes Trump's base.
18
Superb satirical piece, Bret. If lazy WASP anti-intellectuals like Bush Jr., Cheney and Rumsfeld (all chicken-Hawks unlike many immigrants who served in Vietnam) had been deported we would have been spared the Iraqi War of Choice and its disastrous consequences, including the spread of Saudi-Wahhabi terrorism across the globe.
The world would also have been spared the politically expedient False Patriotism that merely reinforced the anti-intellectual drive of the Neocon-Zionist movement that has transformed the U.S. into an Unequal Opportunity, kleptocratic Police State.
Yes. If only ..............
The world would also have been spared the politically expedient False Patriotism that merely reinforced the anti-intellectual drive of the Neocon-Zionist movement that has transformed the U.S. into an Unequal Opportunity, kleptocratic Police State.
Yes. If only ..............
15
This column is dishonest to the extreme. It's an amateurish 'social science,' and purposefully misleading at that.
You want a real analysis? Compare those groups:
1. Native-born of European decent
2. Native-born of Chinese, Korean, Japanese decent
3. Native-born of M. Eastern decent, including India
4. Native-born of Latin American decent
5. Native-born of African decent
6. 1st generation immigrants of the above 5 groups
7. 2nd and 3rd generations immigrants of the above 5 groups.
These stats will show you EXACTLY, whom to deport and whom to welcome. I, for one, would embrace an immigration policy based on the achievement scores of human populations.
You want a real analysis? Compare those groups:
1. Native-born of European decent
2. Native-born of Chinese, Korean, Japanese decent
3. Native-born of M. Eastern decent, including India
4. Native-born of Latin American decent
5. Native-born of African decent
6. 1st generation immigrants of the above 5 groups
7. 2nd and 3rd generations immigrants of the above 5 groups.
These stats will show you EXACTLY, whom to deport and whom to welcome. I, for one, would embrace an immigration policy based on the achievement scores of human populations.
4
It's satire directly intended to fly right over the heads of -and spoof- people advocating just this type of comment.
And it has by all measures succeeded beautifully.
And it has by all measures succeeded beautifully.
6
Since when is India in the Middle East?
Actually if you read closely he is supporting the deportation mainly of those who are from European descent, but over five generations....it's the Trump base of his beloved "poorly educated" who have become the new takers in American society. The folks found in "Hillbilly Elegy" and their offspring would be leading the pack, except who would consider taking them?
1
I see a lot of comments by people who obviously didn't read the piece. As a liberal, I came here ready to scream; the title was great bait.
9
I'm loving your columns Brett!
1
We are all the 'children' of immigrants. This could not have been better said.
2
Are you including the native Americans whose ancestors crossed the Bering Strait?
CONFLATION creates the biggest obstacle to immigration solutions. There is no debate on the value of immigration in this country. The issue for many, and this includes a large segment of those who rejected the status quo in the 2016 presidential election, is the failure of government to enforce immigration law. Those who support open borders conflate immigration and illegal immigration as a strategy to shame their opposition. We are never going to get to a consensus immigration policy solution if this continues.
Not bad Bret, but you left out the one factor that drives the xeonophobia on the right - race.
3
Able bodied people who work hard, contribute to society, play by the rules, should never be considered criminals in any way, shape or form, no matter their legal status. If I were president, I would go after bad people who harm others no matter their nationality. It is they who are bringing this country down, not hard working "illegals".
2
Since I started teaching in 1991 if I had a choice I'd always sooner teach an American Government class of all immigrant students who speak hardly any English over a class with half the number of native-born Americans.
It's trite and it is hackneyed to say, but they show they want to be here.
It's trite and it is hackneyed to say, but they show they want to be here.
6
If only your column was published in Brietbart, repeated by Alex Jones (Megan Kelly) or you were invited on to Fox News as a "conservative columnist" would this article have an impact. All you did in the NYTimes was preach to the choir that already understands such the role of immigration economically, socially and politically.
4
Why preach to the choir? That's how you get them to sing
Bret Stephens, you are distorting what President Trump is against, it's not immigration generally that Trump opposes, it's illegal immigration.
You just don't get it and you never will.
You just don't get it and you never will.
6
Then why are green card holders denied entry into the US.
1
But don't you think you could at least try to explain 'it' to us?
Perhaps all such articles should begin, "Despite the fact that we stole this land from native Americans" ..........
9
Unfortunate use of the term "nonimmigrant." Should be "native-born." There are lots of positive things yo say about nonimmigrants, too.
2
I agree with most of mr. Stephen's article, but does anyone besides me find the mention of religion as an important factor for immigrants...or citizens frightening? does that put non-Christians or athiests on the "who needs you" list?
7
As with most NYT columnists, the difference between LEGAL immigration and ILLEGAL immigration as a method of infusing the country with new ideas and talents is non-existent. The impact of illegal immigration in driving down job opportunities, particularly for young men of color, is never a consideration. And the crime, yes the violent gang crime, which has crossed our southern border is never an issue of illegals and the gangs that came with them but the fault of the Second Amendment and the conservatives who protect it.
7
Leave these motivated immigrants here in our welfare state long enough and many of them will become slackers too.
3
I agree with the premise of this piece with one exception: Since when do you have to be religious to be a good person and good citizen?
Some of the most hateful people in the world, completely lacking decency and character, are vocal believers.
For example: Newt Gingrich.
I wish conservatives would stop ignoring the fact that this is a secular country.
Some of the most hateful people in the world, completely lacking decency and character, are vocal believers.
For example: Newt Gingrich.
I wish conservatives would stop ignoring the fact that this is a secular country.
36
They aren't ignoring our secularity, they are fighting a war against it.
Stephens, if Trump and his very racist hard core supporters don't get it by now they'll never get it, that this country was built by the immigrants who came from all over Europe by evicting the Native Americans who'd been living here for more than 10,000 years.
But what our settlers did ?
They upended their lives by snatching their babies and under Trump's favorite President Andrew Jackson's order murdered and burnt the shacks of the local tribes and sent them on a mass exodus .
So,if Trump's totally ignorant,uneducated or under educated followers had ever completed their schools,they could easily figure out that it was not the immigrants of our time who're ruining this country and stymieing it's growth but it's their own lazy behind which likes to sit around and drink beer all day long and curse the very people who're really working hard to make this country prosperous.
And although it was a welcome change that the Trump administration will allow the D.A.C.A. program to continue for 2 years that Obama administration introduced for the immigrant children who were brought in this country by their parents when young for no fault of their own.
But that is not enough.
Trump has to get out of his hateful mind and educate his totally racist followers that it is not the 'undocumented workers' who're ruining this country but most of the Trump's followers are.
So if anybody that is deported from this country, it should be Trump's racist and lazy followers and nobody else.
But what our settlers did ?
They upended their lives by snatching their babies and under Trump's favorite President Andrew Jackson's order murdered and burnt the shacks of the local tribes and sent them on a mass exodus .
So,if Trump's totally ignorant,uneducated or under educated followers had ever completed their schools,they could easily figure out that it was not the immigrants of our time who're ruining this country and stymieing it's growth but it's their own lazy behind which likes to sit around and drink beer all day long and curse the very people who're really working hard to make this country prosperous.
And although it was a welcome change that the Trump administration will allow the D.A.C.A. program to continue for 2 years that Obama administration introduced for the immigrant children who were brought in this country by their parents when young for no fault of their own.
But that is not enough.
Trump has to get out of his hateful mind and educate his totally racist followers that it is not the 'undocumented workers' who're ruining this country but most of the Trump's followers are.
So if anybody that is deported from this country, it should be Trump's racist and lazy followers and nobody else.
2
I am not aware of the contract issues, however the times needs to reconsider the selection of Bret Stephens as a choice for the paper. It adds to the sense of decline of a revered institution.
6
If, as you suggest, there should be mass deportation, that should start at the Cabinet level and proceed to the WH staff, the Republican Congress and finally to the President. These are the people who should be deported. In 5 months they have done more harm to America than any immigrant, legal or illegal, has ever done. Let's start by cleaning our own house first.
12
Will NYT ever recognize the difference between legal and illegal immigrants? Most are opposed to illegal immigration and in favor of select legal immigration. The hard left is blurring the lines and pressuring the people to accept their open border theme. The left simply cannot accept majority democratic decisions majority and common sense. Trying to force open borders upon americans is going to be a perpetual losing formula. Might as well sign Trump up in 2020 again
7
He doesn't make the point expressly, but of course it is an assumption here. If we took only the legal number of people, there would not be enough people to do all of the work. The "controls" in place through legal immigration are really there, as they have been throughout history, to preserve the white Christian majority.
As a non-immigrant, 1st generation American, I value my rights and freedoms enough that I served in the military even though, as a woman, I was not required to serve. No I did not breed out of control, I had just one child because that was all I could afford. This time next year I will have earned my PhD in Environmental Engineering to go along with 3 other degrees hard science degrees. I am also not Christian and only half white, my father was black. I have also lived in other countries where I had more freedom and rights that I do in the US.
My rose colored glasses were ripped off me in 1967. So if you are serious about deporting deplorable non-immigrants, then please come get me first. I am sure with my education and work experience, almost any country would take me. I would just kindly ask that it is someplace that speaks French, German, or my first language, Russian. And yes, my family is packing as I type to be deported with me as they are no-good business owning, non-breeding, people who just will not conform to the Reagan 'shining city on the hill' America.
My rose colored glasses were ripped off me in 1967. So if you are serious about deporting deplorable non-immigrants, then please come get me first. I am sure with my education and work experience, almost any country would take me. I would just kindly ask that it is someplace that speaks French, German, or my first language, Russian. And yes, my family is packing as I type to be deported with me as they are no-good business owning, non-breeding, people who just will not conform to the Reagan 'shining city on the hill' America.
4
Are some readers missing the satirical aspects of this piece? It reminds me of Swift's "A Modest Proposal" -- something that makes you stop and think, even if a bit outrageous on the surface. He turns the normal conservative position upside-down.
9
Satire, people! It's satire! He's satirizing the anti-immigrant point of view by turning it around and pointing it at the descendants of those who immigrated generations ago! You know.... satire? Oh, never mind....
11
Too bad you broke character mid way. It would have been a classic satire.
5
" ...newcomers who are more appreciative of what the United States has to offer, more ambitious for themselves and their children, and more willing to sacrifice for the future."
Here, here. I've been thinking just this. Immigrants in large part include people willing to risk all and sacrifice to uproot themselves and move. They have a deep interest in seeing their new country succeed.
Here, here. I've been thinking just this. Immigrants in large part include people willing to risk all and sacrifice to uproot themselves and move. They have a deep interest in seeing their new country succeed.
2
"They have a deep interest in seeing their new country succeed."
Common misinterpretation, in line with Open Borders propaganda.
When you move from your home country to "make a better life for YOURSELF" in a richer country, it's not about making your new country successful (otherwise you wouldn't move), it's about hoping to profit personally from a better, richer environment. No altruism involved.
Common misinterpretation, in line with Open Borders propaganda.
When you move from your home country to "make a better life for YOURSELF" in a richer country, it's not about making your new country successful (otherwise you wouldn't move), it's about hoping to profit personally from a better, richer environment. No altruism involved.
I'm a 74 year old veteran who doesn't work hard, doesn't believe in God, doesn't contribute, and thinks that America's greatness faded decades ago. When do I leave?
7
The young vs old opposition is the most common social aspect of human societies.
Nobody really listens to you anymore.
Nobody really listens to you anymore.
Apparently you listened, thanks Eric. Also, we old folks derive some satisfaction knowing that people like Mr. Stephens is subsidizing our lifestyle, such as it may be.
I am trying to find something besides "Thank you" to say. Now, how do you get people to read this who have pulled their ignorance around them like a cloak to protect and conceal their bigotry? I am talking about the 75% of your fellow Republicans who still support this atrocity of an administration and its unhinged so-called leader.
6
Thank you. This is a column that needed to be written.
8
"The United States has too many people who don’t work hard, don’t believe in God, don’t contribute much to society and don’t appreciate the greatness of the American system."
You're referring to the G.O.P., of course.
You're referring to the G.O.P., of course.
7
Human nature: when laziness fails, blame surfaces.
Isn't it ironic that the word "entitled" applies so clearly to the "non-immigrants"? Ask why the "immigrants" work so hard. It's from appreciation and perspective. These are two words rarely used by the former. We're not teaching it.
Isn't it ironic that the word "entitled" applies so clearly to the "non-immigrants"? Ask why the "immigrants" work so hard. It's from appreciation and perspective. These are two words rarely used by the former. We're not teaching it.
3
Superb!
2
We should follow Trump's recommendation and focus on immigrants from countries that have killed the most Americans. Assuming he is no referring to the U.S., then the hands on winner is Germany. I can think of one person with German ancestry who should be the first to go.
2
Wow! A great column that had me worried in the first paragraph. Then came all of the facts....the results of the Intel Science Talent Search are astonishing.
How do we use this information to motivate the non-immigrants? That's the big question.
How do we use this information to motivate the non-immigrants? That's the big question.
2
Intel results are astonishing only to non-immigrants.
Witty article - went unmentioned though, the strong racial and economic component behind the animosity against inmigrants in any society. If the bulk of new immigrants were self-sufficient white europeans the resistance to inmigration would be significantly lower as most americans would see just another wave of people just like them coming into their country (is harder to critizice yor grandpa). If most of the new guys don't look alike, don't speak english, are culturally different, arrive in masses, receive goverment help and live in urban pockets, the assimilation process, as valuable as it might be, becomes extremely dificult.
2
"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." John F. Kennedy
Too many Americans take as a given that because they had the good fortune of being born here, the rest of the country owes them something. Before we give people the vote and open-ended access to social services, mandate that they pass the same civics test that immigrants wishing to become citizens must pass and require of them two years active duty in the military or four years national service in a civilian setting.
Too many Americans take as a given that because they had the good fortune of being born here, the rest of the country owes them something. Before we give people the vote and open-ended access to social services, mandate that they pass the same civics test that immigrants wishing to become citizens must pass and require of them two years active duty in the military or four years national service in a civilian setting.
1
Please round up my neighbors and the other 90% of the surrounding population
Can we please clarify one thing and end this ridiculous argument?
We are a nation of immigrants.
Legal immigrants.
We are not a porous land to which you travel, extract wages and social services, and remain without limit.
Saying immigration is bad is like saying that murder and death are equivalent. Qualification of the argument matters.
We are a nation of immigrants.
Legal immigrants.
We are not a porous land to which you travel, extract wages and social services, and remain without limit.
Saying immigration is bad is like saying that murder and death are equivalent. Qualification of the argument matters.
4
I rarely agree with Conservative columnists, but this one is on the mark. Anyone who thinks they are not descended from immigrants just needs to look closely at their family tree.
Bret, thanks for using data rather than hysteria to show that newcomers to an enterprise will nearly always bring more enthusiasm and zeal and that those who have ridden on the coattails of American prosperity for generations might examine their fantasy-addled consciences for any particular contributions they have made to the common good.
The Real Americans who can't be bothered to learn civics and who stoke themselves into a frenzy over four tragic deaths in Libya while American kids are fed into the Afghanistan meat grinder every day need to validate their citizenship, to renew their American licenses if you will.
Smug ignorance is the hallmark of the current Real American. As always, there will be a price to pay for such self-indulgence, and it will be paid by all of us. Let's hope that when reality hits the fan some genius from India or Senegal has found a creative solution that keeps the rest of us from being splashed.
The Real Americans who can't be bothered to learn civics and who stoke themselves into a frenzy over four tragic deaths in Libya while American kids are fed into the Afghanistan meat grinder every day need to validate their citizenship, to renew their American licenses if you will.
Smug ignorance is the hallmark of the current Real American. As always, there will be a price to pay for such self-indulgence, and it will be paid by all of us. Let's hope that when reality hits the fan some genius from India or Senegal has found a creative solution that keeps the rest of us from being splashed.
1
Another NYT op-ed today is Gail Collins, who asks us to rate the worst pick in Trump's cabinet (Betsy De Vos laps the field).
If a similar competition were to ask for the worst new op-ed columnist the NYT has appointed in the last 50 years, the giftless Bret Stephens would win the prize easily.
A good example is this column, which advocates--in a joking manner--the deportation of the remaining members of the generation that came of age during WW II. It's been called the "Greatest generation," and for many of us these people would include our grand-parents. All of mine had heavy accents and arrived in the US with almost nothing. But, true to the prototypical American family story, they worked hard and their children all became prosperous business owners or academics.
I know Stephens is attempting to write a somewhat whimsical counter-intuitive article here, but he is just lazily commenting on an old and well-know aspect of American history. Tapping the pent-up energy and talents of recent immigrants is a part of the American historical cycle for more than 200 years and will, I hope, continue. I frequently work in my university's computing center during evenings, and I'm not worried that most of the people there are Asians. They are just another generation in a patently American system.
I wish Stephens had focused his essay more directly on the great harm that Trump and his acolytes are doing to our country with their mania for deportation.
If a similar competition were to ask for the worst new op-ed columnist the NYT has appointed in the last 50 years, the giftless Bret Stephens would win the prize easily.
A good example is this column, which advocates--in a joking manner--the deportation of the remaining members of the generation that came of age during WW II. It's been called the "Greatest generation," and for many of us these people would include our grand-parents. All of mine had heavy accents and arrived in the US with almost nothing. But, true to the prototypical American family story, they worked hard and their children all became prosperous business owners or academics.
I know Stephens is attempting to write a somewhat whimsical counter-intuitive article here, but he is just lazily commenting on an old and well-know aspect of American history. Tapping the pent-up energy and talents of recent immigrants is a part of the American historical cycle for more than 200 years and will, I hope, continue. I frequently work in my university's computing center during evenings, and I'm not worried that most of the people there are Asians. They are just another generation in a patently American system.
I wish Stephens had focused his essay more directly on the great harm that Trump and his acolytes are doing to our country with their mania for deportation.
4
Well said. I disagree with including Christianity as a virtue, though. Being Christian does not make you a good person and being non-religious does not make you a bad one.
4
My God! I don't know what this world is coming to! This liberal agrees with the self-described conservative Mr. Stevens. Wonders never cease!
Well said. Reminds me of the people in my family who bemoan the "welfare state" and are collecting thousands of dollars in government benefits each month to help support children with special needs, unemployment benefits, and help in overcoming addictions.
2
Folks, when someone lumps together illegal aliens and legal immigrants as “immigrants,” they are not being honest with you - whether they believe in God or not.
3
I suggest that every native-born American be required to take the citizenship test. A 50% pass rate would be an amazing result!
2
A lifelong history wonk, I've known for decades that the kiss of death for any nation it to achieve dominant world superpower status. They all fall, never to recover. What this article describes is part of that process. A nation that takes what it wants passes that modus operandi on to its citizens. I have watched it in the workplace since my first job back in the '60s. A significant fraction of the workforce thinks that punching in is working. Outsourcing came as no surprise. If I was a business owner it would drive me nuts to have to pay a bunch of lazy do nothings.
Something else I've noticed; not all newcomers are hardworking. Some come because they see an opportunity to get by easily. Their children follow in their footsteps.
Something else I've noticed; not all newcomers are hardworking. Some come because they see an opportunity to get by easily. Their children follow in their footsteps.
I was a professor of computer science for thirty years at a state university in Pennsylvania. I loved immigrant students. They worked harder, asked for help when needed, turned in their work on time and didn't look for the easy way out. They didn't care who won the BIG GAME or which fraternity or sorority to pledge.
They never felt entitled and almost always respected education and educators. Don't send them away or discourage them from coming here. Only a fool would want that.
They never felt entitled and almost always respected education and educators. Don't send them away or discourage them from coming here. Only a fool would want that.
2185
I shared the same experience while teaching at a community college in Central California. I knew for a fact that many of my Mexican students worked in the fields prior to arriving to my mid morning class. How did I know? The told me proudly that they worked to help their families. And yes, no dog-ate-my homework excuses or please for a make-up exam. Work ethic? You bet! Accomplishments? Stellar!
I have not had an immigrant student from any country in a class since I retired in 2012, even though I have been adjuncting around NH for the past 5 years. I miss those students...big league.
I have not had an immigrant student from any country in a class since I retired in 2012, even though I have been adjuncting around NH for the past 5 years. I miss those students...big league.
8
Guns, bait, and ammo. Living white and being free. Is there another reason to work?
1
We might not be able to deport the citizens who lack certain qualities, but I perhaps we need to start a really serious reconsideration of our educational system works to support their development into responsible, productive citizens.
4
I adopted two children who each have illegal immigrant birthfathers (seasonal farm workers) and American birthmothers (high school dropouts) I have a Ph.D. and the adoptive father has a J.D. Both of my daughters were given an impressive childhood but could barely make it through high school due to their multiple disabilities (autism, learning disabilities). They cannot support themselves as adults in their late twenties. Immigrants aren't always those brilliant, hardworking, straight A students, successful entrepreneurs. On the other hand those immigrant adults who survived war, or famine, or drug cartels in their home countries are usually amazing people. Any knowledgeable systems theorist knows that a closed system will eventually die, whereas an open system can adapt to change much better. By the third generation of Americans much of a family's gifts upon immigration has melted. We are stronger by accepting these talented and resilient immigrants.
3
At my naturalization ceremony we were told by the welcoming judge that we were not to think we were inferior to those who were born here; on the contrary, we were here by choice and should be proud of that.
1
Entitlement is the word. Many Americans are spoiled rotten. This is true in politics as well. The far left and far right have an exaggerated sense of their own importance. They are B.R.A.T.s (Be Right All the Time), dismissive and scornful of anyone they don’t agree with. They are always right; the other side is always wrong. That attitude of moral superiority simply drives a wedge further into our body politic. It makes any kind of useful dialogue impossible. It makes governance of the country impossible. They are the ones who should be deported.
8
Your words resonate deeply, Mr. Stephens.
I immigrated to the US in the early 1970's and in many ways realized the "American Dream". Now retired, I have chosen to live abroad, away from the madness that has overtaken our country.
I witness with deep sadness my American grandchildren grow up in a country that bears little resemblance to the one that I embraced in my youth; one that offered such unlimited opportunity in return for hard work and good citizenship.
America is now a place where the immigrant dream to provide his descendants a better chance in life is finished. If immigrants were indeed what made America great, what is the country now?
I immigrated to the US in the early 1970's and in many ways realized the "American Dream". Now retired, I have chosen to live abroad, away from the madness that has overtaken our country.
I witness with deep sadness my American grandchildren grow up in a country that bears little resemblance to the one that I embraced in my youth; one that offered such unlimited opportunity in return for hard work and good citizenship.
America is now a place where the immigrant dream to provide his descendants a better chance in life is finished. If immigrants were indeed what made America great, what is the country now?
12
I agree with this column. I have often said I have more respect for people who have the guts and determination to uproot themselves, leave the only home they have known when they can no longer thrive there and move half way around the world and then take any job they can find including jobs at Dunkin Donuts in the hope that their children can have a better future than for those in the US who when jobs disappear from their community sit and feel sorry from themselves and only want to have the job they always had. The world changes constantly we can never go back to the way things were before. Those that are able to adapt are strong survivors and are the type of people who founded this country and they are exactly the people we need in this country .
8
It's a good point that Immigrants and even Illegal immigrants are not the problem ..... or even a problem. Comparing existing citizens who see the previous generation(s) in their families as better off than they will be has them depressed. Perhaps the number of jobs available is high, but good jobs with career paths are not.
I'm near retirement, but my very large corporation has cut back on summer jobs, internships and constantly work hard to reduce labor. It was quite opposite when I was a young ambitious entry level person.
The "I want my country back" and "make America great again" mantras lack something very important; desire. Not just from those who would be workers, as that seems to be what Stephens is saying, but from the 1% - 10% who are hoarding so much money their own next generations will never have to work again, and the 11% - 20% who are blaming the poor and instead of helping them are whining about them as their own worth is diminishing.
Pick anytime in history you want your country back and check the tax rates, job programs and social programs available. When we are willing to make commitments to improve others lives, you'll see desire emerge again. Unfortunately conservative economic policies use an opposite approach and have no desire to change.
I'm near retirement, but my very large corporation has cut back on summer jobs, internships and constantly work hard to reduce labor. It was quite opposite when I was a young ambitious entry level person.
The "I want my country back" and "make America great again" mantras lack something very important; desire. Not just from those who would be workers, as that seems to be what Stephens is saying, but from the 1% - 10% who are hoarding so much money their own next generations will never have to work again, and the 11% - 20% who are blaming the poor and instead of helping them are whining about them as their own worth is diminishing.
Pick anytime in history you want your country back and check the tax rates, job programs and social programs available. When we are willing to make commitments to improve others lives, you'll see desire emerge again. Unfortunately conservative economic policies use an opposite approach and have no desire to change.
9
For the first time ever, I wrote before I read, having seen only red at the title of the article. Having now read about 200 comments, am reading the article. Profound apologies to Mr. Stephens and kudos to those whose comments have been cogent or brought howls of laughter.
8
I too am guilty of the same sin. Apologies all around.
Some readers comments have mentioned an economic need for immigrants. It's true that humanity has never learned how to have a healthy economy without growth of populations but we had better find a way quickly. In 1950 the world population was 2.5 billion; it's now almost 7.5 billion and currently projected to be 9.5 billion by 2050. The U.S. population has doubled since the fifties. Naturally the climate warming activities of humans is increased several times over when the population increases several times over. Homes & land in the U.S. have already become extremely expensive and both in the U.S. & worldwide the planet will increasing lose dry land due to sea levels rising -- additionally fresh water supplies will be lost as they become salinated. Is humanity not going to wake up to this reality until it is far too late? As for the oft repeated statement that the U.S. is a nation of immigrants, every nation on earth that isn't located in Africa relatively near the equator is a nation of immigrants. Humanity began in Africa and spread out over the globe. The "native Americans" were also immigrants. As for this sentence: "Because I’m the child of immigrants and grew up abroad, I have always thought of the United States as a country that belongs first to its newcomers" ... wow, talk about incredibly self serving. How entitled is it possible for someone to feel? It makes me even more certain we've had way too much immigration -- this newcomer thinks the U.S belongs first to him.
6
This inversion of the usual narrative is both revealing and useful but it overlooks the fact that tRumpistan is not a recent invention of the American right. Americans of all political inclinations -- left, right, and center -- value competition over cooperation; profits over people; measure human value in dollars; adhere to individualistic narratives of self-sufficiency; emphasize rights over reason; and they are committed to the violence of unquestioned exceptionalism. tRump is, in many regrettable ways, the archetype of the American Dream. The "Americans who don't get it" are now in power. Some of us who do "get it" got out for just that reason.
6
Now that's a great editorial. Somewhere it needs to be said that the immigrants are the "real" Americans -- the ones who dream of a better life for themselves and have made a decision to put that dream into action. Not the ones who long ago made up their minds that the system isn't fair, as an excuse for not taking charge of their lives.
13
You make some good points, but with respect to religion, you got it all wrong.
The last thing this country needs is is for someone to decide religious dedication is a measure of citizenship.
The last thing this country needs is is for someone to decide religious dedication is a measure of citizenship.
68
All true in my opinion. I taught for 27 years at a community college. Who were my best students? Answer: foreign born, hands down.
And who, among our population, most exhibits a laudable work ethic (persistent hard work, well done, without complaint)? Same answer.
So why are they disparaged so? I think that it's an easy way to get votes. No policy required. Just blame it on the immigrants.
And who, among our population, most exhibits a laudable work ethic (persistent hard work, well done, without complaint)? Same answer.
So why are they disparaged so? I think that it's an easy way to get votes. No policy required. Just blame it on the immigrants.
61
"laudable work ethic (persistent hard work, well done, without complaint)?"
Never complain is your panacea for America, even if working conditions are horrible, the work demeaning, and the pay is low?
I'll take a pass on your vision of America which reminds me of Pharaoh and grateful slaves.
Never complain is your panacea for America, even if working conditions are horrible, the work demeaning, and the pay is low?
I'll take a pass on your vision of America which reminds me of Pharaoh and grateful slaves.
2
You're correct David. Of course they deserve much higher pay. A decent living wage, for their important work. Yes, I left that out. TThanks for your note.
New York seems to me the most patriotic place in which I've ever lived. Here I've seen the most Jobs ever and I don't mean Steve and I don't mean occupations. Job as in the Old Testament. As hard as lives may get, not matter how many downturns afflict them, I've witnessed people who don't give up in their faith in the idea of America. That faith in America is unmatched by this country's center.
22
Another way that children of native-born parents are inferior is government. Look at the President, Vice President, cabinet, and Republican leadership in Congress. Very few children of immigrants would ever sink that low.
40
Bret, are you sure you are a conservative, you just advocated sending your, and Donald's base on a foreign trip without a return ticket. Maybe we could arrange an exchange program, in which we send a foreign country a Trump supporter and they send us an immigrant of their choice. It couldn't hurt. Oh, by the way why not make it a 2 for 1 trade?
15
'so that we can replace them with new and better ones...'
This is no jest, it is the true intent of the open border crowd: let's replace those awful native populations with "better, more meritorious" ones...
"...demographics. .. our nonimmigrants fail us here, too. “The increase in the overall number of U.S. births is due entirely to births to foreign-born mothers"
Blaming western women again for failing at their role of keeping the population numbers up...
Seeing one's fellow citizens, those who have deep roots here, as disposable and replaceable by "better ones" if they don't live up to one's standards, rather than members of the family one has to accept unconditionally and protect come thick or thin, is the problem.
Everyone should have a right to a secure homeland the way they should have a right to feel secure in a loving and accepting family, no matter one's faults and failings, someplace where one's worth isn't conditional on one's accomplishments.
When people do not feel that way in their own country and feel the need to emigrate, it is rightfully seen as a tragedy, but many citizens of prosperous western countries are now feeling that insecurity as well as their governments make it clear they prefer "better" immigrants to their own native populations.
Thus Trump, Brexit and Le Pen...Keep it up, it's been working so well...
This is no jest, it is the true intent of the open border crowd: let's replace those awful native populations with "better, more meritorious" ones...
"...demographics. .. our nonimmigrants fail us here, too. “The increase in the overall number of U.S. births is due entirely to births to foreign-born mothers"
Blaming western women again for failing at their role of keeping the population numbers up...
Seeing one's fellow citizens, those who have deep roots here, as disposable and replaceable by "better ones" if they don't live up to one's standards, rather than members of the family one has to accept unconditionally and protect come thick or thin, is the problem.
Everyone should have a right to a secure homeland the way they should have a right to feel secure in a loving and accepting family, no matter one's faults and failings, someplace where one's worth isn't conditional on one's accomplishments.
When people do not feel that way in their own country and feel the need to emigrate, it is rightfully seen as a tragedy, but many citizens of prosperous western countries are now feeling that insecurity as well as their governments make it clear they prefer "better" immigrants to their own native populations.
Thus Trump, Brexit and Le Pen...Keep it up, it's been working so well...
6
Many conservatives are observing the contradictions of what was a decent political party that has sold its soul. Many years back I abandoned the Republican Party. I am not applauding. I wish there was an avenue to pursue but none exists right now.
7
There is always the Democrats.
I don't know whether my total acceptance of these and other ideas I've read recently by this conservative pundit, should make me challenge my self identity as a progressive, or his as a conservative.
3
Look on him as a man with his own views and his own ideas, unhindered by notions of what constitutes "conservative" or "liberal/progressive." Just like those people you knew in your youth who could see all sides and come down on the side that made the most sense.
1
How about considering the income inequality being created and getting worse every day from big corporations merging with each other creating fewer jobs and over paying those at the top at the expense of the workers. Workers now are not allowed to work full-time for these companies because that would mean they would need to be paid benefits, such as healthcare, vacation time, sick pay, retirement, etc.
Personally, I think we need to get back to small farms because it will employ people and we will eat better, more balanced, tastier food. It might cost a little more but there is a price to living in a stable society. It's costing us anyway in taxes to take care of all these people that can not even make livable wages.
Personally, I think we need to get back to small farms because it will employ people and we will eat better, more balanced, tastier food. It might cost a little more but there is a price to living in a stable society. It's costing us anyway in taxes to take care of all these people that can not even make livable wages.
5
Mass deportation is one approach but let's also end birthright citizenship -- for everyone. Require every 17-year old to take the citizenship test, regardless of where they were born and who their parents are. Earn your right to vote by showing that you know something of the real history of this country, what the Constitution actually says, and what it means, in terms of not just rights but also responsibilities, to be an American citizen. If you can't pass the test, you can't vote and, after three unsuccessful tries, perhaps you can find another nation that will take you in. After all, the US is a nation founded on ideals of liberty, equality, and justice, not geography or ethnicity. Prove you share the ideals if you want to be a citizen.
13
Its nothing new to find out that immigrants by and large work harder than the natives. It's the universal truth and equally applicable to US. Immigrants have traveled thousands of mile solely for the purpose of bettering their life. Don't forget the masses the writer mentions are sons and daughters of immigrants.
The sons and daughters of the new immigrants that the writer mentions will fall into the same trap.
The sons and daughters of the new immigrants that the writer mentions will fall into the same trap.
7
Based on what do you say this? Saying something doesn't make it true.
Nor do you define "harder."
Nor do you define "harder."
4
I've slowly over many years come to the same conclusions via facts but Stephens does us a great favor to list them in an organized argument...
Its The Subject That Dares Not Speak Its Name. That will soon end.
I've seen it up close, daily, in a global volunteer group in international higher education I formed years ago.
Its nonimmigrant Americans who by and large aren't a credit to our country, plain and simple.
Its The Subject That Dares Not Speak Its Name. That will soon end.
I've seen it up close, daily, in a global volunteer group in international higher education I formed years ago.
Its nonimmigrant Americans who by and large aren't a credit to our country, plain and simple.
9
Mr. Stephens exhibits the kind of pragmatic, evidence-based conservative thinking that seems to be lacking in the current Tea Party mentality that dominates the GOP and the alt-right "thinking" that dominates the White House. Alas, I have the sense that If any elected official in the GOP voiced these ideas they would be opposed in their next election by someone chosen by the Koch brothers... and that is driving our country further and further away from the kind of discourse that COULD lead to harmony.
17
As the grandson of an "anchor baby," I have long found it distressing that so much energy gets expended on disparaging and harrowing people just like my grandfather. The dominant attitude seems to be that the presence of immigrants means that everybody else gets a smaller "slice of pie" - because immigrants are getting some of "our" pie. This zero-sum view of America ignores a vital point: Immigrants make tons of pie.
18
Bravo!!!
Magnificent column! You are doing more to educate today's young people on what conservative politics once was (and should now) be than anyone I have read in over 10 years. As a septuagenarian of independent politics, I sincerely thank you for your meaningful contribution to the betterment of society.
Magnificent column! You are doing more to educate today's young people on what conservative politics once was (and should now) be than anyone I have read in over 10 years. As a septuagenarian of independent politics, I sincerely thank you for your meaningful contribution to the betterment of society.
34
As an octogenarian, I agree that Bret may be a suitable replacement for David Brooks, but Dave has stood the test of time, so we must wait awhile before granting him worthy.
1
Why is it that many who claim they are "independent" are really on the fringes of the right wing?
Why don't they own up to their extremism, as opposed to covering it up through phony political labels?
Why don't they own up to their extremism, as opposed to covering it up through phony political labels?
Wait! As a progressive sexagenarian, I enjoyed this column and have enjoyed many of David Brooks' columns (at least since the new administration) - why to we have to replace anyone? If they are writing intelligent, well-reasoned, provocative articles then bring them all on. Add to the Opinion mix.
And that is why immigrants are so hated by those of our evangelical fundamentalists who aren't making it economically or socially. They believe only they follow the true word of God, yet they are doing less well than immigrants. It is the same thing we see in the Muslim world, where those who receive a formal religious education in the true religion and way of life see that they and their nation are behind most of the rest of the world, where infidels prosper. Our immigrants largely value education, are willing to work very hard so their children get ahead, and starting from nothing willingly take the risks that a new business entails in an effort to make a better life for their families. Almost all of us are a few generations removed from immigrants, who had the same experience as today's immigrants. Current immigrants are no better than we are; they just have a different mindset -- closer to the one that we used to have.
18
And you wonder why I cancelled my Times subscription.
Last 12 months, Civilian Population Survey (CPS) showed 16-64 cohort went up 53,000. Senior citizens increased by 1,534,000. Some time this year the 16-64 cohort will start to decline and it will continue to do so until 2029, unless we increase immigration. Monthly JOLTS report shows that we have roughly as many unemployed people as open jobs, the issue isn't jobs but capable employees. As more and more talent ages into retirement and more capable foreign legal aliens leave for more appreciative areas, our economic growth is in extreme peril. Anticipate a decade or more of near zero growth that will make the last decade seem like the golden era.
Last 12 months, Civilian Population Survey (CPS) showed 16-64 cohort went up 53,000. Senior citizens increased by 1,534,000. Some time this year the 16-64 cohort will start to decline and it will continue to do so until 2029, unless we increase immigration. Monthly JOLTS report shows that we have roughly as many unemployed people as open jobs, the issue isn't jobs but capable employees. As more and more talent ages into retirement and more capable foreign legal aliens leave for more appreciative areas, our economic growth is in extreme peril. Anticipate a decade or more of near zero growth that will make the last decade seem like the golden era.
5
It's early yet on this Saturday morning, Sal. Have another cup of coffee, and the tongue-in-cheek of this piece will zing into focus.
28
We need to think of zero growth except in clean energy.
Love your comment. LOL over my coffee!
Proper, common sense, easily understood, general framework for immigration into America?
The absolute worst defense of immigration would be that statistic after statistic (incarceration rates, rate of business creation, academic performance, etc.) shows that immigrants outperform the natives of a country. This would mean not that we need more immigrants but that we have to ask what is causing the degeneracy of the native populace. Bringing more immigrants in will obviously lead to only their eventual degeneration no matter how well they perform at beginning. Of course these statistics can be interpreted in a relativistic sense--for example it could be that a native population is performing really well, but the immigrants are just performing better. In other words, the statistics do not necessarily mean the native population is degenerating. Still, it is alarming that simply immigrants are outperforming a native population, which is to say it is alarming that a population cannot figure out a high level of performance for itself without taking in more immigrants.
The key problem for any nation then appears how to keep not to mention arrive at a high level of performance for itself, that way immigration fears are kept at bay, because any type of immigration just fits into a high performance manifold and does not threaten the native populace. Obviously America is not performing well today if it cannot articulate clearly this social engineering problem. Engine choke America?
The absolute worst defense of immigration would be that statistic after statistic (incarceration rates, rate of business creation, academic performance, etc.) shows that immigrants outperform the natives of a country. This would mean not that we need more immigrants but that we have to ask what is causing the degeneracy of the native populace. Bringing more immigrants in will obviously lead to only their eventual degeneration no matter how well they perform at beginning. Of course these statistics can be interpreted in a relativistic sense--for example it could be that a native population is performing really well, but the immigrants are just performing better. In other words, the statistics do not necessarily mean the native population is degenerating. Still, it is alarming that simply immigrants are outperforming a native population, which is to say it is alarming that a population cannot figure out a high level of performance for itself without taking in more immigrants.
The key problem for any nation then appears how to keep not to mention arrive at a high level of performance for itself, that way immigration fears are kept at bay, because any type of immigration just fits into a high performance manifold and does not threaten the native populace. Obviously America is not performing well today if it cannot articulate clearly this social engineering problem. Engine choke America?
5
The article explains why "real Americans" underperform compared to immigrants: complacency. I add arrogance and entitlement to the mix. American exceptionalism informs us that we are the greatest country, the greatest society, the greatest people, the greatest justice system in the world, etc. If that's the case, then the rest of the world struggles in vain to catch up, so no need to strain ourselves. American travelers think their US citizenship makes them untouchable, and immune from the laws of the countries they visit. TV commercials tell us that we deserve this or that, and we deserve it now. Despite the complaints of immigrants stealing jobs, I believe it is the rare American who will take certain jobs, like working in meatpacking plants, even if the wages are high. "Real Americans" deserve better.
3
This is the point. Our society in general, and our education system in particular, are designed to make impulsive, self-centered consumers out of what could have been self-governing, productive, community-minded human beings. Bring in as many talented immigrants as you like, we will turn their grandchildren into the useless takers both Mitt Romney and Hillary Clinton deplored.
1
I beg to disagree. I learned in my children's elementary school that all of us, especially the non-immigrants, are above average.
7
A great column. America is a concept based on hard work and the freedom to make use of it. People from anywhere can take advantage of that concept.
11
Mr. Stevens proposes setting standards for a citizen to remain in the United States that have more to do with their adult behavior than the location or circumstance of their birth. That sounds pretty democratic to me. All that remains is to draft the details, pass them through congress and make it the law. In the interim, the law requires immigrants to be appropriately documented to live in the United States if they were not born here. There is a process to follow to obtain this documentation. Those who don't follow the process are subject to deportation. Those who do follow the process earn citizenship for themselves and their progeny. When the new law is passed I will get in line behind Mr. Stevens as we each make our case for our value as US Citizens.
3
Not quite true. There is a process for SOME immigrant people to become legal residents and citizens. The process you talk of does not allow most people to immigrate to the USA. The hoops that people here legally have to jump through to get green cards have some arbitrary aspects. If you don't recognize that the process has serious problems then you don't understand immigration.
3
Of course, many of those advocating for mass deportations of immigrants don't regard Roman Catholics as Christians, so that part of the argument is problematic. Still, good one!
4
A "demographic death spiral" is just another way of saying "return to balance with Nature". Bigger populations are needed for armies, not to make the human experience better.
11
Yes, and thank you.
1
Nonimmigrants can't be deported and so they are here to stay. If they can't compete, we can't just ignore them. If the young energetic hardworking immigrants take most of the employment opportunities, the nonimmigrants are still going to be here, and someone will need to pay for their living expenses, health care, the expense of educating their kids
Even in jest, the idea exposes the problem. The people are here. You can't throw them away. I don't know if bringing in a stream of 'better' people makes more sense than working to better the ones you have.
It reminds me of an vow I have heard from men starting a second family: this time I'm going to do it right, make up for the mistakes I made the first time. Well, the first kids are still here. You can make up for your mistakes directly with them!
Even in jest, the idea exposes the problem. The people are here. You can't throw them away. I don't know if bringing in a stream of 'better' people makes more sense than working to better the ones you have.
It reminds me of an vow I have heard from men starting a second family: this time I'm going to do it right, make up for the mistakes I made the first time. Well, the first kids are still here. You can make up for your mistakes directly with them!
14
I know you were joking about those lazy, freeloading nonimmigrants. But there's always a kernel of truth in humor. I'm thinking of the boomers that are handing off to the next generations a country that is in real trouble: in its politics, in its position as a world leader, and as a society which titls grossly in favor of the wealthy. They voted for Clinton and they voted for Trump. They think more about themselves than the future of their children, their nation, and the natural world. Now deportation would be a bit harsh, but how about rounding them all up and just moving them to, say, Texas? I'm in their ranks but I would happily do some of the driving.
10
The "boomers" include all the counter cultural and cutting edge political and social activists who brought you the Beat poets, the summer of love, support for the minority rights movements, Rachel Carson and the environmental movement, a recent Nobel laureate in literature who sang to the world; in short, a legacy of open-minded progressive accomplishment that will never, ever die. Unfortunately, half the boomers or more could not see clear to shuck much of the thinking of the previous generation, the "great" one that fought Nazi fascism but also failed to move on in so many ways. Don't tar an entire generation with the same brush.
I do not agree that the US is a country that belongs first to its newcomers.
That's a slap in the face to my family who have had members that have fought in every war since the American Revolution back in the 1700's.
This country would not even be here if it weren't for them. And to say that my family doesn't deserve this country, first and foremost is an insult. We all deserve it but remember who made this country. It did not just happen.
There was many, many generations of blood shed, sacrifice and valor.
That's a slap in the face to my family who have had members that have fought in every war since the American Revolution back in the 1700's.
This country would not even be here if it weren't for them. And to say that my family doesn't deserve this country, first and foremost is an insult. We all deserve it but remember who made this country. It did not just happen.
There was many, many generations of blood shed, sacrifice and valor.
228
I agree with you about that point. However, please do not discard all of the other excellent points because you react negatively to that one.
2
I agree completely. My family arrived here in the 1600s & 1700s and I am certainly a liberal but I nearly choked when I read, as he describes himself "a child of immigrants who grew up abroad" declaring that the United States "belongs first and foremost" to people like him. Unbelievable the sense of entitlement!
Your ancestors, if they arrived from elsewhere, were newcomers too at some point. They did a fine job, apparently, taking advantage of the opportunities this country offers and giving back in return. So did most, including my ancestors. who only arrived at the beginning of the 20th century. Today's newcomers are doing the same, and it is undeniable that they are outpacing too many long-standing Americans who seem to have become a drag on our progress. That's all this article is saying.
6
Mr. Stephens, I understand your point but you are thoroughly confused and all over the place. As an atheist immigrant who does not think American system is that great, I feel offended.
13
It has been the constant churn of immigration that has largely propelled this American experiment. May it continue.
26
To begin with this country needs to STOP bringing in uneducated people who cannot support themselves and plan on the U.S. taxpayer taking care of them. Syrians whose job is Dunkin Doughnuts, etc. when robotized will be only masses on benefits. With almost half of our population not paying into entitlement programs (both social security and Medicare), we can imagine how not long these will last.
10
"With almost half of our population not paying into entitlement programs (both social security and Medicare), we can imagine how not long these will last."
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean children and the retired aren't paying, you are correct. But all wage earners contribute to Social Security and Medicare, even minimum wage earners. Just because they make too little to pay federal income tax doesn't exempt them from payroll deductions.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean children and the retired aren't paying, you are correct. But all wage earners contribute to Social Security and Medicare, even minimum wage earners. Just because they make too little to pay federal income tax doesn't exempt them from payroll deductions.
78
You fail to recognize that 2nd generation Americans do better than their parents (including refugees). Refugees end up here because of circumstances outside of their control. They are not always poor, uneducated in their own countries. They might have trouble finding better jobs here because of language barriers of differences in certifications and licensing requirements. One thing you can bet on-they will sacrifice and push their kids to study hard and succeed.
3
My father was part of the uneducated that came to this country. First job, working in a warehouse. I have three advanced degrees, including a degree from MIT. I have never been unemployed and pay at least 100 thousand dollars a year in US taxes annually (even though I now reside in the U.K.). Would you have excluded my dad?
665
"often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history" Those words would probably describe a large percentage of Trump supporters. As to your comments about the need for religion, some of the most productive countries are those where religion is almost nonexistent. Being honest, productive, and, in general, contributing your part to society has little or nothing to do with religion.
70
The problem presented in the article is that if you take away the ability to complain about illegal immigrants, who will then serve as the boogey man for the politicians that deliberately exaggerate and distort the facts on this issue? When I grew up, politicians used communists to scare the population into following them blindly. Today, it looks like a largely defenseless community of hard working, law-abiding immigrants are scapegoated. Sadly, I don't think this will change no matter what logic or facts you present.
14
Couldn't have said it better; this is a country of immigrants, the latest batch(s) the most productive and competitive, and the most willing to work harder and accept less than ideal circumstances in their lives and still happy to be part of this great experiment of democracy, however unequal, not yet cynical and blind to the richness of our diversity, and advocating for inclusion. Those of us already part of this consumption society, have been lulled into a dangerous complacency, hoping to maintain our privileges without even bothering to go vote, witness the assault of the presidency by a liar- in- chief who took advantage of an uninformed and indifferent public that took their luck for granted.
11
Excellent article.
Australia's alt-reich government has just introduced a series of citizenship exams that you'd have a hard time passing if degree qualified.
I'd like to see everyone 16 & over - especially the politicians backing the plan - take these exams. Fail & you're out.
But this article comes a close second.
Australia's alt-reich government has just introduced a series of citizenship exams that you'd have a hard time passing if degree qualified.
I'd like to see everyone 16 & over - especially the politicians backing the plan - take these exams. Fail & you're out.
But this article comes a close second.
1
As a journalist, I spent my day today interviewing Dreamers. While they had fear for their parents, not a one had a bad thing to say about the country they love, the only country they know.
They want to work in law enforcement, government and education. One graduated at the top of his class and wants to enter law school.
Press as I might, none would say they hold a grudge or animosity.
All said they would not succumb to fear but would work harder to prove they deserve this, they deserve to be here.
I wish everyone could have been a part of this conversation. Maybe then they would understand that America is truly a nation of immigrants.
They want to work in law enforcement, government and education. One graduated at the top of his class and wants to enter law school.
Press as I might, none would say they hold a grudge or animosity.
All said they would not succumb to fear but would work harder to prove they deserve this, they deserve to be here.
I wish everyone could have been a part of this conversation. Maybe then they would understand that America is truly a nation of immigrants.
18
This is an excellent article. Times' readers should know that since Trump has been inaugurated there has been more than a 25% increase in the deportation of undocumented immigrants. Many of whom are not bad hombres. In my own community, Metuchen, NJ, a Christian Indonesian refugee (Arino Massie) who had been living in the US for more than 10 years, with no criminal history, was arrested when he reported to an immigration office - as he had been doing, unmolested, for the past several years. But under our new administration, he was molested (arrested, detained, and deported). This single story has brought heartbreak to his family and community. And there are likely thousands of similar reprehensible incidents across the United States. Deportation of men, women (and possibly children) is a shameful event in our countries history. All of us, regardless of political affiliation, should fight to reverse this cruel and senseless policy.
I taught English to teenage newcomers for 40 years in stressful inner city and low-income rural settings. It was a dream job. Who wouldn't love to teach people who are thirsty and eager to learn? It was a privilege and honor to be my students' first English teacher. They reminded me of my (illegal) immigrant grandparents and connected me with who we are, a nation of natives and immigrants learning from each other, but the title of this lovely article is a joke that failed. Terrible. I just wish Mr Stephens could convince his fellow conservatives that immigration is good for us all, but the core of his party is racist and xenophobic. I suppose this terrible title is an attempt to lure those people into reading another viewpoint.
6
Thank you for writing this insightful column. It is a great shame that this country built by immigrants should now be known for its unfair treatment of those who are here working hard and supporting their families and this country.
I wonder who is going to pick our crops and do the myriad of jobs that "real" americans believe are beneath them because they pay less than the minimum wage. Look around you "real" americans because as Anthony Burdain has said "if you deport all the undocumented workers, most fancy restaurants will close because they will lose their line chefs and kitchen staff" and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
I wonder who is going to pick our crops and do the myriad of jobs that "real" americans believe are beneath them because they pay less than the minimum wage. Look around you "real" americans because as Anthony Burdain has said "if you deport all the undocumented workers, most fancy restaurants will close because they will lose their line chefs and kitchen staff" and that is just the tip of the iceberg.
8
Brava! Well said.
"Businesses do not often prosper by firing their better employees and discouraging job applications. So how does America become great again by berating and evicting its most energetic, enterprising, law-abiding, job-creating, idea-generating, self-multiplying and God-fearing people?"
I would love to hear your thoughts on affirmative action- if business do not prosper by hiring their best employees, how can universities and businesses prosper by purposefully admitting/hiring those who are less qualified than other applicants?
I would love to hear your thoughts on affirmative action- if business do not prosper by hiring their best employees, how can universities and businesses prosper by purposefully admitting/hiring those who are less qualified than other applicants?
1
Here, here! Thank you for this excellent column!
I don't understand how so many people have such animus toward those who want only to love and contribute to this country. I have always been struck by the entitled, selfish, lazy attitude of people who scream about immigrants coming to this country. Maybe if these same people used up some of that angry energy working as hard as immigrants do, they wouldn't have as much to scream about!
I don't understand how so many people have such animus toward those who want only to love and contribute to this country. I have always been struck by the entitled, selfish, lazy attitude of people who scream about immigrants coming to this country. Maybe if these same people used up some of that angry energy working as hard as immigrants do, they wouldn't have as much to scream about!
4
Trump and company have convinced their zombie supporters that these solid figures are exactly the reverse of what Stephens presents here. But of course they seem to think that all their problems will be solved if we just get rid of broan people from abroad. The stupidity of this zero-sum game can hardly be emphasized enough. But Americans don't have long memories. They forget that their grandparents were from abroad. and many would not even be here if the prejudices of the day were similar to Trump's.
8
Mr. Obama started mass deportations; Mr. Trump is just increasing the pace.
Note: I do get the irony of the piece. And I think it of crucial importance that our immigrant population in the main is Christian in religion and European in culture and language. The Europeans have a far more serious problem than we do.
Note: I do get the irony of the piece. And I think it of crucial importance that our immigrant population in the main is Christian in religion and European in culture and language. The Europeans have a far more serious problem than we do.
Well, I do not doubt the statistics offered. Being a legal immigrant, now a proud citizen for many years, who came to this country with $120 in my pocket and the place to stay for a few weeks in somebody's basement (no money or food offered), I have an old–fashioned solution, modified Ellis Island one: come with enough money in your pocket for a few weeks to live, pass mental and physical health test, get temporally residence with the option, if you succeed, to get the green card. If you fail, we even pay for your return ticket.
3
From the point of view of defending the honor of recent immigrants, there is much to welcome in this piece.
However, if the category of nonimmigrants is subjected to demographic analysis, or even informed reflection, the statistics underlying your "case against nonimmigrants" becomes more vexed than you acknowledge, and the jibes about their failings invite reproach.
Your heart's in the right place, I think, if a bit too heavily brass-clad. Or is there really a pernicious subtext?
However, if the category of nonimmigrants is subjected to demographic analysis, or even informed reflection, the statistics underlying your "case against nonimmigrants" becomes more vexed than you acknowledge, and the jibes about their failings invite reproach.
Your heart's in the right place, I think, if a bit too heavily brass-clad. Or is there really a pernicious subtext?
3
What an excellent take on the absurd irony of American exceptionalism in a political environment of willful ignorance and xenophobia.
2
And then we can add what Gandhi said: "There is enough for everyone's need, but not for everyone's greed."
8
What is clear, since the Trump election, is that there is a significant group of Americans who believe that US belongs to Caucasians of European descent who settled here generations ago.
No amount of reasoning will alter that conviction.
No amount of reasoning will alter that conviction.
Thanks for your insights. it is unfortunate that the narrative spun is the opposite to this reality. Why do we forget that North America is built, unless you are Indigenous, on immigrants?
Somehow could you slip this arricle in Trump's morning briefing. Maybe he needs a heads up that his best assets need to stay and the others need improved educational opportunities. America will be left behind If this situation continues.
Somehow could you slip this arricle in Trump's morning briefing. Maybe he needs a heads up that his best assets need to stay and the others need improved educational opportunities. America will be left behind If this situation continues.
In most immigration debates, people tend to intentionally or unintentionally put legal & illegal immigration into the same category. If you are against illegal immigration,you are against the entire immigration this country is built on. Yes, I am pro-immigration but against illegal immigration because you can not condone robbing the bank in order to help the poor.
We will not function as a civil society if we selectively decide which laws we follow and which laws we just ignore.
I agree whole heartedly with the contribution most immigrants are making to this country but this doesn't justify anyone can come into this country without any legal approval.
We will not function as a civil society if we selectively decide which laws we follow and which laws we just ignore.
I agree whole heartedly with the contribution most immigrants are making to this country but this doesn't justify anyone can come into this country without any legal approval.
3
Working-class immigrants -- who came here legally -- are not as on board as you with laughing at those who came in first class, or came in illegally. Why should others be rewarded for what our parents worked hard and sacrificed to provide? Tbey were hoping their hard work and sacrifice would benefit us, their own children, not support via their taxes others who ignored the laws on their children''s behalf.
Give to private charities that work on private immigration cases, Mr. Stephens. Stop trying to make policy on the country's behalf just because you came here wealthy and now feel blessed.
Give to private charities that work on private immigration cases, Mr. Stephens. Stop trying to make policy on the country's behalf just because you came here wealthy and now feel blessed.
5
Stephens, if Trump and his very racist hard core supporters don't get it by now they'll never get it, that this country was built by the immigrants who came from all over Europe who evicted the Native Americans who'd been living here for more than 10,000 years.
But what our settlers did ?
They upended their lives by snatching their babies and under Trump's favorite President Andrew Jackson's order murdered and burnt the shacks of the local tribes and sent them on a mass exodus .
So,if Trump's totally ignorant,uneducated or under educated followers had ever completed their schools,they could easily figure out that it was not the immigrants of our time who're ruining this country and stymieing it's growth but it's their own lazy behind which likes to sit around and drink beer all day long and curse the very people who're really working hard to make this country prosperous.
And although it was a welcome change that the Trump administration will allow the D.A.C.A. program to continue for 2 years that Obama administration introduced for the immigrant children who were brought in this country by their parents when young for no fault of their own.
But that is not enough.
Trump has to get out of his hateful mind and educate his totally racist followers that it is not the 'undocumented workers' who're ruining this country but most of the Trump's followers are.
So if anybody that is deported from this country, it should be Trump's racist and lazy followers and nobody else.
But what our settlers did ?
They upended their lives by snatching their babies and under Trump's favorite President Andrew Jackson's order murdered and burnt the shacks of the local tribes and sent them on a mass exodus .
So,if Trump's totally ignorant,uneducated or under educated followers had ever completed their schools,they could easily figure out that it was not the immigrants of our time who're ruining this country and stymieing it's growth but it's their own lazy behind which likes to sit around and drink beer all day long and curse the very people who're really working hard to make this country prosperous.
And although it was a welcome change that the Trump administration will allow the D.A.C.A. program to continue for 2 years that Obama administration introduced for the immigrant children who were brought in this country by their parents when young for no fault of their own.
But that is not enough.
Trump has to get out of his hateful mind and educate his totally racist followers that it is not the 'undocumented workers' who're ruining this country but most of the Trump's followers are.
So if anybody that is deported from this country, it should be Trump's racist and lazy followers and nobody else.
For every legal educated immigrant that come in and adds to our society, another few come in illegally or in temp visas that are a burden on society or displace American workers.
An illegal immigrant may not be entitled to any benefits but his 3 kids will goto local school, will get Medicaid and goto ER, all paid by society. And there are temp visa holders that displace entire IT and Finance departments in Corporations.
All these unfairness is obvious to most people not looking at numbers on spreadsheets all day.
An illegal immigrant may not be entitled to any benefits but his 3 kids will goto local school, will get Medicaid and goto ER, all paid by society. And there are temp visa holders that displace entire IT and Finance departments in Corporations.
All these unfairness is obvious to most people not looking at numbers on spreadsheets all day.
5
Remember that 2/3 of Medicaid costs go towards nursing homes, which are not populated by elderly immigrants. And most drug overdoses occur in white, non-immigrant communities. Put those on your spreadsheets, too.
4
Wait, if they're s great burden on society, presumably you mean they're on welfare etc. - then how are they replacing IT and finance departments of corporations?
So Mr. Stephens claims that Christians are better Americans than non-Christians. Some hypocrisy in his previously attacking Jeremy Corbyn's supposed anti-Semitism. One of the founding principles of this country, which Stephens deplores many Americans' ignorance of, is that it is a country with no established religion. Maybe he should reread the Constitution himself. George Washington himself said it was not founded as a Christian country. Some of its founders were desists. Some of its most conscientious citizens are secular people.
4
Seriously, did you read this article with attention to detail? You DID notice it was a satirical piece?
1
BRAVO! ( My ancestors came here in 1632, by the way, and I couldn't agree more with this column. )
1
Good for you, Mr. Stephens. Would you have written this piece for the WSJ? Could you have? Trump is, above all, following a strategy of trolling the left. They don't have a single original idea, just reversing Obama-era ones. Climate change, deporting undocumented immigrants, reversing the ACA etc...How long can this schtick work? How cruel and stupid can citizens get? Ultimately, the fact that his proposed changes will hurt his supporters most seems unlikely to succeed for long.
5
It's shameful to see the conflating of illegal immigration with legal immigration in this article. As we here over and over, unskilled labor is going the way of the buffalo: soon it will be done by robots. If you want to write an article about why we ought not to remove illegals on their merits, don't lump in the legal immigrants with them. I doubt those who went through the process would appreciate it.
5
Your piece has an eerie echo of your colleague Thomas Friedman's refrain-like lament. An oft touched upon subject in his columns is how the USA should continue to try and lure the best and the brightest people from overseas to its universities and corporations, as only their creativity and drive allow you to flourish and to continue to innovate.
It is ineffably sad to read you reach the same conclusion. Greatness derived from a vampire-like process in which immigration alone can provide the newness, as that which has taken root fails to bear fruit after a generation or two. Greatness achieved ultimately by enticing to your shores those who have the potential to further the interests of their own societies and to bring happiness and prosperity to their own people.
What is even more disheartening is that, once established, a sufficiently large number of these immigrants' descendants descend into stupidity to the point of seeing those who do what their grand- or great-grandparents have done as a threat. To the point indeed of electing to the Presidency a signally unqualified individual on the basis of his promise to build a wall to halt the inflow.
It is ineffably sad to read you reach the same conclusion. Greatness derived from a vampire-like process in which immigration alone can provide the newness, as that which has taken root fails to bear fruit after a generation or two. Greatness achieved ultimately by enticing to your shores those who have the potential to further the interests of their own societies and to bring happiness and prosperity to their own people.
What is even more disheartening is that, once established, a sufficiently large number of these immigrants' descendants descend into stupidity to the point of seeing those who do what their grand- or great-grandparents have done as a threat. To the point indeed of electing to the Presidency a signally unqualified individual on the basis of his promise to build a wall to halt the inflow.
A piece of satire of which Jonathan Seift would be proud. Shining the light on the irrational and shortsighted discrimination towards immigrants by turning the tables in it's misplaced logic was brilliant. Unfortunately some readers misinterpreted "A Modesr Proposal " when it was published just as my fellow commenters do.
Mass Deportation is a reactionary rallying cry that prays on fear and resentment and has no place in a civil society and functioning democracy. We must reject incivility and public/private actions to hobble the laws and agencies that help our government function properly.
Mass Deportation is a reactionary rallying cry that prays on fear and resentment and has no place in a civil society and functioning democracy. We must reject incivility and public/private actions to hobble the laws and agencies that help our government function properly.
1
How does one keep their families from becoming "American" in the sense of lazy complaining pseudo Christian Trumpian? I am sending my kids overseas as much as possible and pushing them to study and live abroad for a while. As an immigrant I don't want my kids to be Americans like my WASP neighbors who snicker at educational competition that doesn't involve a football or basketball. So few "Americans" live outside their birth country. A little bit of living elsewhere can change the drive and motivation that is needed to make America great again.
4
We are at 325 million in the USA as it is. With no change in immigration policy we will be at about 800 million by the end if this century. What good could possibly come from 800 million Americans especially considering that immigration to the US contributes to climate change?
So what's the game plan here? When is enough enough? Isn't it about time to start winding this sucker down?
So what's the game plan here? When is enough enough? Isn't it about time to start winding this sucker down?
Never thought of myself as a trailblazer, Bret, but I self-deported under Reagan and have been living happily in the land of my ancestors ever since.
1
Interesting idea. To get rid of the most egregious nonimmigrants we'd have to start deportation with the current administration and majorities in the House and Senate. Throw in four or five Supremes, a few talk show hosts, a few columnists and the environment would be cleaner in days.
Where do we send them ? I vote Russia.
Where do we send them ? I vote Russia.
2
Dear Mr Stephens, please don't propagate deportation. This word has been damaged during WWII to the excess.
And what is it good for? If you take bad people from here then they will be soon be bad people there. It's a very costly play for the tax payers too. And will it bring a better future? I doubt it.
And what is it good for? If you take bad people from here then they will be soon be bad people there. It's a very costly play for the tax payers too. And will it bring a better future? I doubt it.
The points of logic raised by Mr. Stephens are valid but will fall on deaf ears with Trump's hardcore supporters. Reason has never been Trump's appeal among his base. Trump has touched that dark but powerful place in their souls where scapegoating rules. Ironically, it is also the place of victim-hood.
No national politician since George Wallace has been so brazenly racist as Donald Tlrump. Had Fox News, Breitbart, InfoWars, etc. been around in Wallace's day, the former Alabama governor may have been elected or at least been a serious candidate.
We are trapped in an infotainment nightmare where pandering to our darkest impulses is a multi-billion dollar industry. Until our people wise up, reason will continue to be a weak tool in U.S. political discourse.
No national politician since George Wallace has been so brazenly racist as Donald Tlrump. Had Fox News, Breitbart, InfoWars, etc. been around in Wallace's day, the former Alabama governor may have been elected or at least been a serious candidate.
We are trapped in an infotainment nightmare where pandering to our darkest impulses is a multi-billion dollar industry. Until our people wise up, reason will continue to be a weak tool in U.S. political discourse.
2
One way to understand the Trump administration and to predict its next moves is to ask yourself a three component but simple question..... is this action 1) cruel 2) counterproductive and 3) does it dismantle some element of an Obama legacy. If the answer is yes to all three you can bet the farm Trump will push for it.
For those who choose to nitpick with Mr Stephens on this topic, I'd advise them to see the forest beyond their particular tree.
The core message in this bit of satire is the lassitude of a very large segment of the native born American people. In such torpor lie the seeds of a civilization's demise. Just the statistic on RIT's % of native born EEs should wake up the complacent.
Well written.
The core message in this bit of satire is the lassitude of a very large segment of the native born American people. In such torpor lie the seeds of a civilization's demise. Just the statistic on RIT's % of native born EEs should wake up the complacent.
Well written.
3
Very refreshing piece. By reading the first paragraph, it looks like something written by Ann Culter for Fox News. Then comes the big twist. Well done. It is not a good way to convince "non-immigrants" that they are the dead weight who impedes the progress of the society, though.
Thank you Mr. Stephens for pinpointing America's biggest problem. Your column almost perfectly describes the typical Trump voter.
1
Great piece. It makes it clear why so many non-immigrants resent immigrants.
1
I am a white, American-born doctor. My worst patients are people like myself. At a much higher rate than immigrants they refuse to care of themselves, drink and eat too much, use drugs, try to go on disability when it's not justified. Then they blame their troubles on others.
2
mr stephens- your fresh and entertaining analysis mischievously stopped short of being full and/or is pulling punches ...Its not hard to break down the rather amorphous category of "nonimmigrants" to pinpoint who we might consider deporting..,..,I think its not hard to determine which immigrants contribute greatly to this country, and those nonimmigrants who drag down this country....consider for example, educational level, an excellent proxy for ambition, industry, and assimilation. Your statistics would doubtlessly be even more compelling if one only let college educated immigrants into the US, and deported nonimmigrants without a high school education.
Nothing in my 60 years of experience suggests that immigrants are taking jobs away from American citizens. Everywhere I have lived, everywhere I have worked, immigrants are finding work in professions where there are significant needs or else the kind of manual labor no American wants to do. I know a white woman in her 80s who was ecstatic that Trump was elected because he would "ship them all back where they came from." She then picked up the phone to order in her groceries, delivered by a Mexican immigrant on a bicycle with huge baskets. Her lawn is tended to by Central American immigrant landscapers, and her Polish immigrant cleaning lady keeps the place sparkling. Her favorite restaurant's kitchen is devoid of native English-speakers, and her doctor is from India. And, hysterically, there is a shortage of seminarians, so many in the last batch of priests ordained in her neck of the woods were from Africa, Eastern Europe and South America.
2
A lucid pint of view from a thoughtful conservative. Wow, I thought they were extinct or had sold out to greed. A serious dialogue could be developed around his rationale, versus, "Throw them out, throw them all out" as the faux Republican leader is fond of saying. In any event, a legitimate point of view and a good beginning. Thank you.
1
"I speak of Americans whose families have been in this country for a few generations. Complacent, entitled and often shockingly ignorant on basic points of American law and history, they are the stagnant pool in which our national prospects risk drowning."
Agreed, but I don't think Germany would take back the Trumps.
Agreed, but I don't think Germany would take back the Trumps.
1
Proud Second Generation Atheist, whose grandparents, Orthodox Jews, came from the Russian Empire/Poland. I do work hard, but reject the USA as a Christian country. It never was. The indigenous Americans who the Kristians encountered a few generations before, were not Christians. And lots of these white folk/anglos in USA just got here 3 generations ago, long after the Mexicans and Spaniards who settled 1/3 of the country did.
My favorite thing about this piece is that it takes the argument right into the wheelhouse of the anti-immigration camp. They're worried about all those stolen jobs? All the crime from the "rapists" from Mexico? All those people without any Christian values? Counterpoints, boom boom boom, based on facts.
Actually, the verifiable facts might be a problem...
Actually, the verifiable facts might be a problem...
1
Lazy-bones stay home. We get the good ones; the ambitious, energetic, the smart ones.
Those fleeing an iron-heel government appreciate liberty more than those that never knew anything else.
No matter from what continent they come, how they get here, or what material and educational assets, or lack thereof, they possess upon arrival, we get the best.
The same principle holds for the forced immigrants from Africa. If you walked off that slave ship under your own power, you had something going for you. (We will leave the discussion of all that was visited upon those "immigrants" and subsequent generations, to this day, for another time.)
So I agree, cut off immigration and the nation withers.
Those fleeing an iron-heel government appreciate liberty more than those that never knew anything else.
No matter from what continent they come, how they get here, or what material and educational assets, or lack thereof, they possess upon arrival, we get the best.
The same principle holds for the forced immigrants from Africa. If you walked off that slave ship under your own power, you had something going for you. (We will leave the discussion of all that was visited upon those "immigrants" and subsequent generations, to this day, for another time.)
So I agree, cut off immigration and the nation withers.
1
Mr. Stephens, I don't always agree with you but this may be your best column since you joined the NYT. I've had similar thoughts for years.
The entitlement felt by some "Americans" is astonishing. They were lucky to have relatives generations ago who had the gumption and courage to give up everything and come here with nothing. But now, as Mr. Stephens points out with interesting data, these "lucky sperm club" members often contribute little to our country and take much from it.
And they are the first to complain about immigrants "stealing their jobs." What they fail to see is that today's immigrants are the people most like their relatives who came here generations ago--hungry, willing to work hard, willing to sacrifice for their families, and completely bought in to our American values of freedom, democracy and opportunity for all who will work for it.
Some of their feelings toward these immigrants are resentment. Some are insecurity and disappointment in themselves. And in some cases there is racism. If they truly want to "Make America Great Again" they need to get over it so our country can continue to draw the best and brightest from around the world. And the backward-thinking GOP leaders who feed this anti-immigrant pablum to their "American" constituents need to stop it.
And it wouldn't hurt if they dug down deep and showed a little gumption, like their immigrant relatives did so long ago. There is a lot of work to do and we need all the help we can get.
The entitlement felt by some "Americans" is astonishing. They were lucky to have relatives generations ago who had the gumption and courage to give up everything and come here with nothing. But now, as Mr. Stephens points out with interesting data, these "lucky sperm club" members often contribute little to our country and take much from it.
And they are the first to complain about immigrants "stealing their jobs." What they fail to see is that today's immigrants are the people most like their relatives who came here generations ago--hungry, willing to work hard, willing to sacrifice for their families, and completely bought in to our American values of freedom, democracy and opportunity for all who will work for it.
Some of their feelings toward these immigrants are resentment. Some are insecurity and disappointment in themselves. And in some cases there is racism. If they truly want to "Make America Great Again" they need to get over it so our country can continue to draw the best and brightest from around the world. And the backward-thinking GOP leaders who feed this anti-immigrant pablum to their "American" constituents need to stop it.
And it wouldn't hurt if they dug down deep and showed a little gumption, like their immigrant relatives did so long ago. There is a lot of work to do and we need all the help we can get.
2
This is a wonderful column. It artfully exposes the ignorance of the current president's rhetoric on immigration. Some "Americans" have forgotten what it means to be an American. I hope Stephens' column helps them remember.
1
This otherwise nicely Swiftian modest proposal is marred by one bit of ugliness: the inclusion of Christianity in the list of incontrovertibly good things. The American take on religion is right there in the Establishment clause. No particular belief system trumps the others, and none has a monopoly on virtue.
1
I have found that immigrants who come to our country to be hard working and appreciative of an America that gives them the opportunity to advance and prosper. However, in an ironic twist of fate; homegrown Americans especially those who lack a higher education and who are concentrated in the rural coutryside to be very lacking in ambition and consumed with unfounded anger towards the newest entries into our country. Is that an envy they possess because these immigrants show them up. In a recent Clint Eastwood movie an older main character realizes he has more in common with the foreign born neighbors value system then he does with his own family. No wonder so many of these people turn to the nationalistic Trump, he gives them a sense of self worth they really do not deserve.
3
In the late 19th century, pessimistic intellectuals like Henry Adams gazed into their crystal balls and foresaw the inevitable decline of America. Influenced at least in part by Social Darwinism, Adams and his friends compared the US to an organism with a defined life span and argued that America had entered a phase of reduced energy and creativity dictated by nature.
Such thinking seems odd in retrospect, given that this country had just begun its rise to world power. Racist hostility to recent immigrants had infected the thinking of Adams and other WASPS, but their conception of social evolution did contain a grain of truth, suggested by Stephens's column. Immigrants often exert an outsized influence on economic growth because they harbor no illusions about the sacrifices they will have to make to achieve personal success. Middle class children of well-established families, on the other hand, enjoy greater access to schools and other institutions that smooth their path to good jobs and an affluent lifestyle. This easier access often fosters a sense of entitlement that can sap effort.
As Mr. Stephens so clearly demonstrates, the capacity of the US to rejuvenate itself, generation after generation, stems directly from the infusion of new people hungry to share the American dream. Many will fail, but enough succeed to preserve the vibrancy of the US economy. Trump's ignorance and narrow mindedness would deprive us of this source of energy and creativity.
Such thinking seems odd in retrospect, given that this country had just begun its rise to world power. Racist hostility to recent immigrants had infected the thinking of Adams and other WASPS, but their conception of social evolution did contain a grain of truth, suggested by Stephens's column. Immigrants often exert an outsized influence on economic growth because they harbor no illusions about the sacrifices they will have to make to achieve personal success. Middle class children of well-established families, on the other hand, enjoy greater access to schools and other institutions that smooth their path to good jobs and an affluent lifestyle. This easier access often fosters a sense of entitlement that can sap effort.
As Mr. Stephens so clearly demonstrates, the capacity of the US to rejuvenate itself, generation after generation, stems directly from the infusion of new people hungry to share the American dream. Many will fail, but enough succeed to preserve the vibrancy of the US economy. Trump's ignorance and narrow mindedness would deprive us of this source of energy and creativity.
This column is too real for me. I'm a twenty something from an affluent suburb. A majority of people I know work from my hometown have absolutely zero drive or ambition. They are content with their mediocre jobs because daddy is paying for their NYC apartment and their health care (this group also unfortunately includes my sister). I admittedly used to be just as lazy- I lucked out because I happen to be very intelligent, which allowed me to coast by before I learned the value of hard work. Something must change. From my perspective, being born well off can easily breed laziness and complacency (and I am in no way claiming being born rich is a bad thing, but affluenza is a true issue). Parents naturally want best for their children, and providing for them financially is an easy choice when parents have the means. But spoiling children can be devastating for those children later on in life. I do not have the answer. But this column touches upon what is in my opinion the biggest issue facing any rich nation- how to maintain the drive to better ones life when life is already good to begin with.
1315
Those,who mention community service for all or reinstating the draft have answers. For me it was riding Greyhound and Trailways buses, back in the day when trains were disappearing and bus was how you got "there." For everyone, no matter what your means, if you didn't own a car.
I agree with your comments. My mother's family has been here since the Mayflower. My dad's family started arriving in the 18th century. My parents raised my siblings and myself to not expect people to give us things, we needed to work for them. Both my immigrant husband and I raised our children the same way. All 3 of our sons have a fabulous work ethic. Its normal for parents to want to give their children the things they didn't have when growing up. But its something parents need to think very seriously about. Are you crippling your child or being loving?
1
Dan: An excellent point, as a matter of fact two or three generations of "spoiled" children often wipe out great fortunes, I've been watching it happen to friends and family for decades.
3
While Mr. Stephens points out, rightly, the failings of generational Americans, he overlooks the salient fact that protecting these failures from the advances of more ambitious and productive new citizens is precisely the point of Trump's cadre and its policies. The deplorables KNOW they're inadequate, and that they can't compete. So they want to game the system so that they don't have to. It's an extension of the kind of white middle-class privilege Republicans have always subscribed to--starting on third base and thinking you hit a triple--so they have a like-minded, if venal, fellow traveler in the party of hate.
3
Two of my children have made their success in the arts. One of whom was born and raised abroad, and one who is also, the son of an immigrant. Their work ethic, let alone talent & beauty, their visions for their lives, all colored by their "otherness".
Love this article. Bret Stevens, hits the nail on the head, all over again.
Love this article. Bret Stevens, hits the nail on the head, all over again.
Dear Mr Stephens, I love your closing statement about immigrants: “people who strain hardest to become a part of [this country] because they realize that it is precious”. As an immigrant, I could not have said it better. Every day I wake up, thankful to be able to live and work in a free country. I try very hard to be the best person and the best worker I can, and it is wonderful that this country allows me the freedom to do that. I don’t take it for granted.
After the last election, I was in deep depression for 2 weeks, and my friends had a hard time understanding why since I am usually a “glass-half-full” type of person. It wasn’t because I happened to disagree with the winning party’s policies or because I found the childish political fighting distasteful. It's just that the rose-tinted glasses through which I had viewed my new country, got forcefully yanked off, leaving me wandering if I had ever really understood the basic tenets of said country.
However - because this freedom is precious to me, I am not willing to let it go so easily. The founding principles of this country, the freedom to speak freely, the democratic process is worth fighting for. Forceful and fearless press is paramount to this process - and it is so encouraging to this immigrant to see NYT stepping up to the challenge. Only through this fight can the country I love maintain its standing in the world – as a country all immigrants wanted to come to, in order to be free.
After the last election, I was in deep depression for 2 weeks, and my friends had a hard time understanding why since I am usually a “glass-half-full” type of person. It wasn’t because I happened to disagree with the winning party’s policies or because I found the childish political fighting distasteful. It's just that the rose-tinted glasses through which I had viewed my new country, got forcefully yanked off, leaving me wandering if I had ever really understood the basic tenets of said country.
However - because this freedom is precious to me, I am not willing to let it go so easily. The founding principles of this country, the freedom to speak freely, the democratic process is worth fighting for. Forceful and fearless press is paramount to this process - and it is so encouraging to this immigrant to see NYT stepping up to the challenge. Only through this fight can the country I love maintain its standing in the world – as a country all immigrants wanted to come to, in order to be free.
2457
Welcome to the world's epicenter of false advertising.
2
Tens of millions of us felt that depression and some of us still do.
We all get a set of rose-tinted glasses placed on us when, by birth or choice, we come into this country. Most of us have them yanked off at one point or other. Some respond to less-rosy realities by blending into them; what they come to expect from others they expect, and give, of themselves. Others see all the more reason to make things rosy for all, do unto others as we would have them do unto us.
I read—was it David McCullough?—that at the time of the American Revolution, only 1/3 of settlers supported the idea; another 1/3 supported the British and the last 1/3 didn't much care or believe anything could be done to change things. From the outset we had to make ugly compromises on lofty ideals and only a small slice of the population could truly say they weren't disenfranchised. But over the centuries, particularly the last one, especially the last decade, we've grown into those ideals.
I think that paradigm has flipped. A third support the rosy American ideal now that the widest cross-section ever is included, 1/3 fight against that width and the last 1/3 don't much care.
That last third generally doesn't vote. So it all comes down to whether the third who believe in equality, knowledge and love can work together better and appeal to more of the apathetic than the third who don't.
Our country's tenets are in our countrymen—you and me. It's us, living them fully each day, that makes real life rosier.
We all get a set of rose-tinted glasses placed on us when, by birth or choice, we come into this country. Most of us have them yanked off at one point or other. Some respond to less-rosy realities by blending into them; what they come to expect from others they expect, and give, of themselves. Others see all the more reason to make things rosy for all, do unto others as we would have them do unto us.
I read—was it David McCullough?—that at the time of the American Revolution, only 1/3 of settlers supported the idea; another 1/3 supported the British and the last 1/3 didn't much care or believe anything could be done to change things. From the outset we had to make ugly compromises on lofty ideals and only a small slice of the population could truly say they weren't disenfranchised. But over the centuries, particularly the last one, especially the last decade, we've grown into those ideals.
I think that paradigm has flipped. A third support the rosy American ideal now that the widest cross-section ever is included, 1/3 fight against that width and the last 1/3 don't much care.
That last third generally doesn't vote. So it all comes down to whether the third who believe in equality, knowledge and love can work together better and appeal to more of the apathetic than the third who don't.
Our country's tenets are in our countrymen—you and me. It's us, living them fully each day, that makes real life rosier.
5
Treating others as one would like to be treated usually works best when implemented by not doing to others what one finds offensive when done to oneself.
3
Executive Summary: Immigrants are better citizens than non-immigrants.
Point taken, and valid I think, though I question some of your metrics. Why did you throw non-believers under the bus? I would speculate that non-believers are more likely to be hard working because they have taken the initiative and invested time and energy to weigh the evidence and then reach a conclusion on the likelihood there is a supreme being. Perhaps you could address this at some point.
Point taken, and valid I think, though I question some of your metrics. Why did you throw non-believers under the bus? I would speculate that non-believers are more likely to be hard working because they have taken the initiative and invested time and energy to weigh the evidence and then reach a conclusion on the likelihood there is a supreme being. Perhaps you could address this at some point.
3
Nonbelievers tend to cynicism about believers.
1
Christians constitute an important part of the reactionary right wing population is all.
The author suffers from the delusion that the US is a Christian nation filled with white people. I am a first generation non-immigrant.
A large portion of Trump's agenda appears to be based on spite with the intent to undo President Obama's initiatives and programs.
What a way to run a country!
RESIST.
What a way to run a country!
RESIST.
7
I know your column title was meant tongue-in-cheek, but I think you're onto something. Given that your first paragraph splendidly applies to the first family and particularly to the so-called president, not to mention most of those in congress, I think such a mass deportation would do wonders for our country.
4
An excellent and timely laying out of the facts. Too bad that there is no hint of a (practical) solution.... only the obvious what-not-to-do solution.
At least as interesting (in a non-positive way) are the comments: each niche (the non-godly, the immigrants, the jobless, the job-ful, ....) gets its turn to crow or bemoan, but generally -- as with the author -- without viable solutions.
Here's a roadmap to one: why is it that the salaries of people at the top are determined by obsequious boards rather than by the people who work under them? Why are the salaries of those who actually do the work that most of us (commenters) seem to value (teachers, nurses, plumbers, etc) so low compared to those of 'titans of industry'? Until we decide to reverse our present system of life rewards, this subject will forever be a topic of newspaper complaint (and amusement).
At least as interesting (in a non-positive way) are the comments: each niche (the non-godly, the immigrants, the jobless, the job-ful, ....) gets its turn to crow or bemoan, but generally -- as with the author -- without viable solutions.
Here's a roadmap to one: why is it that the salaries of people at the top are determined by obsequious boards rather than by the people who work under them? Why are the salaries of those who actually do the work that most of us (commenters) seem to value (teachers, nurses, plumbers, etc) so low compared to those of 'titans of industry'? Until we decide to reverse our present system of life rewards, this subject will forever be a topic of newspaper complaint (and amusement).
9
By this logic, the US and the rest of the Western world must rely constantly on a steady stream of immigrants, to do the low wage jobs that the citizens will not do. And why should they, they have social services that pay for their housing and living expenses, why should the break a sweat and work?
This is not a good rationale for immigration. If the citizens were paid a better wage even for the lowest level work, most probably much more of them would enter the job market. But that means that services and goods would cost more, but at least customers would have the satisfaction to know that no one was exploited in the making of a good or service that the customer purchases.
Even liberal Bernie Sanders was against illegal immigration, because of supply and demand, it suppresses wages for lower income jobs and displaces the citizen worker and exploits the illegal worker. Most liberals, other than Sanders, are blind to this aspect.
Most societies do not function by expecting mass migration to be part of their model. Singapore, South Korea and Japan have very low levels of migration and yet are prosperous. Why is the West and only the West expected to accept mass migration? The model is not be sustainable and it will come with at a tremendous cost.
This is not a good rationale for immigration. If the citizens were paid a better wage even for the lowest level work, most probably much more of them would enter the job market. But that means that services and goods would cost more, but at least customers would have the satisfaction to know that no one was exploited in the making of a good or service that the customer purchases.
Even liberal Bernie Sanders was against illegal immigration, because of supply and demand, it suppresses wages for lower income jobs and displaces the citizen worker and exploits the illegal worker. Most liberals, other than Sanders, are blind to this aspect.
Most societies do not function by expecting mass migration to be part of their model. Singapore, South Korea and Japan have very low levels of migration and yet are prosperous. Why is the West and only the West expected to accept mass migration? The model is not be sustainable and it will come with at a tremendous cost.
7
"Businesses do not often prosper by firing their better employees and discouraging job applications. "
Proving legal residence is part of the same system of laws the author claims immigrants follow more closely than non-immigrants.
You can't have it both ways.
"Because I’m the child of immigrants and grew up abroad, I have always thought of the United States as a country that belongs first to its newcomers"
As the saying goes, you thought wrong.
Proving legal residence is part of the same system of laws the author claims immigrants follow more closely than non-immigrants.
You can't have it both ways.
"Because I’m the child of immigrants and grew up abroad, I have always thought of the United States as a country that belongs first to its newcomers"
As the saying goes, you thought wrong.
3
I enjoyed the article and comments. But it's off target. Sure immigrants make the US thrive. They start businesses, are more productive, and their offspring are driven. By the third generation, not so much. There's a regression to the mean, in this case the cultural middle. Long-term Americans should emulate immigrants, at least in their work ethic. But something's missing.
No society is built of entrepreneurs. Immigrants are people who were the most motivated in their home societies. There are plenty of slackers in India and Egypt, but they don't emigrate.
A successful society, as the US has been in the past, builds institutional capacity. Bright people join government, ordinary people listen to those who have expertise, and systems function. We care more about whom we serve than our compensation. When a company like Uber exploits workers and violates employee rights, a healthy society doesn't use them. Investors turn away.
The flaw at the heart of contemporary America is our unwillingness to sacrifice for others, our lack of trust, our eagerness to exploit. We won't pay the taxes needed for quality education, get seduced by military might. The heartland has turned hard hearted. Fears run amuck, with a dose of old-fashioned racism, leaves us open to Russian manipulation.
That's why immigrants outshine the rest of us. They still believe, trust, and listen.
No society is built of entrepreneurs. Immigrants are people who were the most motivated in their home societies. There are plenty of slackers in India and Egypt, but they don't emigrate.
A successful society, as the US has been in the past, builds institutional capacity. Bright people join government, ordinary people listen to those who have expertise, and systems function. We care more about whom we serve than our compensation. When a company like Uber exploits workers and violates employee rights, a healthy society doesn't use them. Investors turn away.
The flaw at the heart of contemporary America is our unwillingness to sacrifice for others, our lack of trust, our eagerness to exploit. We won't pay the taxes needed for quality education, get seduced by military might. The heartland has turned hard hearted. Fears run amuck, with a dose of old-fashioned racism, leaves us open to Russian manipulation.
That's why immigrants outshine the rest of us. They still believe, trust, and listen.
14
American exceptionalism is a myth. recently assigned to company field office at a major engineering/science/business university I was ashamed to find product riddled with poor programming and, more important, ignorance and lack of interest in knowing or correcting the error. As I tried to drum up interest in opportunities presented I encountered apathy.
3
Bret, you are scary. If you don't like it here you are free to leave. Your "plan" sounds clearly fascist. Not funny, either. Immigrants who arrived lately are not better or worse than earlier arrivals, or Native Americans. How far back do you want to go? The people who walked across the Bering straits millions of years ago, should we send their lazy descendants back to Asia? You say Americans who don't "get it" should get out? What is "it?" America belongs to all of us. Freedom means freedom to worship your God or no God, to marry or not marry, to be what you want to be. If you don't like it, too bad.
5
Barbara, Bret is obviously being sarcastic. He is mocking the viewpoint of many anti-immigration people who view immigrants - or at least illegal immigrants - to be the root of many of our country's problems. Far from it, as Bret points out, our immigrants are often the best performing in a number of metrics.
15
America has never been against accepting immigrants but wants them to enter legally. We are all sons and daughters of immigrants at one time or another but the difference is that our ancestors followed the rules. Is that too much to ask?
The one advantage that Americans have over immigrants is the command of the English language. We should be proficient having been born in the US but it will carry you far in life. If you can speak well and dress well it helps one gain employment. I am not criticizing foreigners but there are many intelligent Americans too. We must stress education for our children and give them the tools to succeed. We must never neglect those born here and assist them also. They have the right to have a chance at success.
The one advantage that Americans have over immigrants is the command of the English language. We should be proficient having been born in the US but it will carry you far in life. If you can speak well and dress well it helps one gain employment. I am not criticizing foreigners but there are many intelligent Americans too. We must stress education for our children and give them the tools to succeed. We must never neglect those born here and assist them also. They have the right to have a chance at success.
4
@WMK: You wrote, "The one advantage that Americans have over immigrants is the command of the English language." Oh boy! You need to get out more. I've met (and have had to work with) way too many young "Americans" who are challenged to the point of paralysis trying to write a cogent sentence. On the other hand, I've met many immigrants (and foreigners overseas!) who write and speak English much more fluently than the average "American". Oh, yes, and the average immigrant dresses much better than the average "American".
3
"America has never been against accepting immigrants but wants them to enter legally."
Whoa - stop right there. You might want to try being an Italian, Irish, or Asian immigrant to the US in the early 20th century.
The Immigration Act of 1917 and the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 are only two examples of how willing the US has been to admit any immigrants, legal or not.
Whoa - stop right there. You might want to try being an Italian, Irish, or Asian immigrant to the US in the early 20th century.
The Immigration Act of 1917 and the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 are only two examples of how willing the US has been to admit any immigrants, legal or not.
1
A breath of fresh air from a "right minded" conservative. I wasn't sure there were any left! Absolutely one of the most straight forward, accurate portrayals I've read about non-immigrant.
Mr. Stephens, this is by far the best column depicting working class America today. My own observations of immigrants pretty much line up with your writings. There are many millions of hard working non-immigrants too, but also many who just gave up or want to game the system. And they're the ones who complain and want to deport the immigrants.
Mr. Stephens, this is by far the best column depicting working class America today. My own observations of immigrants pretty much line up with your writings. There are many millions of hard working non-immigrants too, but also many who just gave up or want to game the system. And they're the ones who complain and want to deport the immigrants.
20
Setting sample selection issues aside of recent immigrants, these disparities have been true for at least a generation. What I find odd, however, is that the core of Trump's support is largely the core of G W Bush's support: white evangelical Christian of all income groups. In other words, WASPs. And yet Mr. Stephens remained an avid fan of Mr. Bush on everything from the Iraq War to Social Security privatization. Mr. Stephens is also an avid critic of the type of health care system found in Germany, where Mr. Stephens spends a non-trivial amount of time.
1
"Out of wedlock births" and "rate of delinquency and criminality" and other social ills?
Immigrant mothers versus non-immigrant mothers?
So, Stephens would deport all the non-immigrant mothers giving birth out-of-wedlock?
Of course, those "non-immigrant mothers" are "disproportionately" African-American.
Likewise, African-Americans have "disproportionately" high rates of "delinquency" and "criminality".
Stephens would nonetheless propose deporting all of them?
Whatever the "legacy" from injustices suffered by African-Americans in the past,
massive immigration is not the solution.
Immigrant mothers versus non-immigrant mothers?
So, Stephens would deport all the non-immigrant mothers giving birth out-of-wedlock?
Of course, those "non-immigrant mothers" are "disproportionately" African-American.
Likewise, African-Americans have "disproportionately" high rates of "delinquency" and "criminality".
Stephens would nonetheless propose deporting all of them?
Whatever the "legacy" from injustices suffered by African-Americans in the past,
massive immigration is not the solution.
1
I think you missed the point. Did you think Jonathan Swift's Modest Proposal was a murder manifesto?
2
Since when has believing in God been a requirement to be a good American citizen? I agree working hard and contributing to society are essential, and that we've failed as a society to teach our children what Solzhenitsyn referred to as the responsibilities that go along with the rights of being a citizen. But, dictating thought processes is no way to develop a great citizenry.
13
If everybody is going to make it then there must be enough decent jobs that everybody who wants one can get one. The other jobs will be for those who have decided not to make it and to live their lives in -- at best, genteel -- poverty (like struggling artists or perpetual students). Left to its own devices, a free enterprise society based on competition will produce a small number of big winners, who will proceed to squelch competition with each other so they can maintain their winning position as a group. Only external forces like governments (or labor unions) can successfully resist this tendency.
If our long-timers were as enterprising as our immigrants, the rewards for enterprise would be less and more enterprises would fail. If we have too many lawyers or MBAs, the best will do very well and the rest will be underemployed and poorly paid. As an example, we have had too many would-be college teachers for several decades, and the result is that the best do well and the rest get the joy of teaching and poverty-level wages as adjuncts. And among the best are many whose expertise is in navigating the track to tenure instead of teaching or worthwhile research; competition produces people who are good at winning the competition even though they are only fair at what the competition is abut.
America becomes great again by devising a way for most people to do well, instead of our current way where some do very well and most struggle to stay in the same place.
If our long-timers were as enterprising as our immigrants, the rewards for enterprise would be less and more enterprises would fail. If we have too many lawyers or MBAs, the best will do very well and the rest will be underemployed and poorly paid. As an example, we have had too many would-be college teachers for several decades, and the result is that the best do well and the rest get the joy of teaching and poverty-level wages as adjuncts. And among the best are many whose expertise is in navigating the track to tenure instead of teaching or worthwhile research; competition produces people who are good at winning the competition even though they are only fair at what the competition is abut.
America becomes great again by devising a way for most people to do well, instead of our current way where some do very well and most struggle to stay in the same place.
7
Deport people who don't believe in God? Which god? If any?
The United States was founded on the principle of free speech and free thought, protected by Jefferson's wall of separation between church and state. Despite the tax breaks any organization can get these days by claiming to be a religion.
And Mr Stephens has the hide to talk about "the basic points of American law and history."
The United States was founded on the principle of free speech and free thought, protected by Jefferson's wall of separation between church and state. Despite the tax breaks any organization can get these days by claiming to be a religion.
And Mr Stephens has the hide to talk about "the basic points of American law and history."
13
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" should make claims to know what God thinks about anything legally moot.
1
Beautiful column, Sir. You may be a conservative, and I a liberal, but our souls are indeed connected. You have eloquently put into words that which even our more progressive pundits have not. No anger, no vitriol. Rather, facts and figures which reveal our present paradigm as a nation.
I am the grandchild of Southern Italian immigrants. And people should know they were initially looked down upon. But they worked hard, and indeed proved that they were worthy of respect and dignity.
Finally, my home is in Sonoma County, where there is a large Mexican population. And we depend on them in every aspect of our lives. Competency, responsibility, family values, and our American work-ethic. Those words describe them. Add to the mix..they are good people.
I am the grandchild of Southern Italian immigrants. And people should know they were initially looked down upon. But they worked hard, and indeed proved that they were worthy of respect and dignity.
Finally, my home is in Sonoma County, where there is a large Mexican population. And we depend on them in every aspect of our lives. Competency, responsibility, family values, and our American work-ethic. Those words describe them. Add to the mix..they are good people.
56
The problem is not immigration. It's population. Where I live the land/environment cannot absorb the number of people moving in. And with sea level rise it will get worse. When I hear all the accomplishments these immigrants are bringing, I think great. When I hear that they are having more children, I start to worry. There should be a intelligent thoughtful way to deal with the problem now. Otherwise, we will be dealing with it in a draconian way later. Certainly the single family home of our grandparents is a thing of the past with no open land to build on. Because of sea level rise here in South Florida, there will be a gradual constriction and many of those homes will have to be vacated. There will be a time, sometime in the future, when nature just can't accommodate all of us. So let the immigrants stay, but encourage them as well us to maybe have one less kid.
21
The US has 85 people per square mile. Germany 600, Japan 900, Singapore 18,000. There's more than enough land in the US.
Bret's numbers shouldn't surprise anyone. What should surprise is that they surprise HIM. Throughout our history, it's been evident that whatever makes immigrants willing to uproot themselves and move to another country with alien speech, alien folkways, probably an alien god and practices of worship, distinguishes them from those who were born to those native realities and would never think of uprooting themselves and taking such chances with their lives. Many who do uproot themselves in such manner clearly have a basis for confidence that they can prosper even in an alien land -- whether by specific skills much in demand or by massive self-confidence in their inherent chutzpah. Einstein, for instance, was an immigrant.
He seeks to irrationally condemn the masses of the indigenous by comparing them to such people. Yet not for nothing do some retrograde and fearful societies limit emigration for fear of brain drains: these two populations simply aren't comparable, and shouldn't be used as the basis for a general condemnation of the masses.
So-called "real Americans" aren't "screwing up America" any more than the indigenous populations of Britain and the Nordic countries are screwing up their own countries when compared with the enterprising young French, Spanish and Greek kids who can't build lives for themselves in their native lands and move to where they can.
Bret moves to the Times and loses all sense of rational balance. Such a shame.
He seeks to irrationally condemn the masses of the indigenous by comparing them to such people. Yet not for nothing do some retrograde and fearful societies limit emigration for fear of brain drains: these two populations simply aren't comparable, and shouldn't be used as the basis for a general condemnation of the masses.
So-called "real Americans" aren't "screwing up America" any more than the indigenous populations of Britain and the Nordic countries are screwing up their own countries when compared with the enterprising young French, Spanish and Greek kids who can't build lives for themselves in their native lands and move to where they can.
Bret moves to the Times and loses all sense of rational balance. Such a shame.
17
Your response totally misses the point of Mr. Stephens column. The obvious thesis is what we lose by enforcing this administrations so called immigration policy. The column is, if nothing else, researched and contains meaningful data, a form of thought absent from anything this President does. My politics are different than Mr. Stephens, but there are issues that just aren't left or right but rather fact vs. fiction.
119
I think you don't get what he's saying. There are, unfortunately, many, many Americans who bash immigrants and want to exclude them - "Build the Wall" yelled loudly and scornfully. When Bret talks about these "real Americans" he deliberately puts the words in quotes to illustrate that they are anything but, and that they are undermining not only what America is supposed to stand for, but her very future. We all would indeed be better off if they renounced their citizenship in this country they are so dissatisfied with and went off and started their own country - one that holds true to their own values, whatever they are.
723
Your ancestors probably came here because their prospects were poor where they were born, Richard. All my immigrant ancestors were driven by economic misfortune in their native lands.
45
A breath of fresh air and sanity on a subject which rarely sees any such thing. Thank you for this perspective. Though I disagree that believing in God is one of the things which is a strength - it's just another source of tribalist behavior as far as I can tell - the lack of civic engagement as measured by citizen participation in the most important duty of citizenship (voting) is shocking and disheartening.
This country is made of immigrants - unless you are a full-blood member of one of America's indigenous tribes, then your people came here from somewhere else, and it's time we all stood up and pointed that out to the people who are trying to build walls rather than bridges.
This country is made of immigrants - unless you are a full-blood member of one of America's indigenous tribes, then your people came here from somewhere else, and it's time we all stood up and pointed that out to the people who are trying to build walls rather than bridges.
43
This system automatically discards millions of votes in every presidential election. It is anything but one person one vote democracy.
Translation: the popular vote favors Democrats and the Electoral College favors Republicans.
Hence, the calls for electoral reform to encourage bipartisanship. I was also in that camp until I started worrying about the Law of Unintended Consequences.
Real reform starts with us, the voters. We the People--conservatives, liberals, and independents--are the ones putting ideology before country when we vote extremist candidates into office. Until we decide to vote for the government we want, we will continue to get the leadership we deserve.
Hence, the calls for electoral reform to encourage bipartisanship. I was also in that camp until I started worrying about the Law of Unintended Consequences.
Real reform starts with us, the voters. We the People--conservatives, liberals, and independents--are the ones putting ideology before country when we vote extremist candidates into office. Until we decide to vote for the government we want, we will continue to get the leadership we deserve.
And even the indigenous came from asia.
Except in africa we are all more or less immigrants sooner or later
Except in africa we are all more or less immigrants sooner or later
Our's is a Nation of three types of people.
1. Those born here
2. Those naturalized (or, on their path to naturalization)
3. Those who are here illegally
There is also a fourth group worth a mention.
4. Those who are (temporarily) lawfully resident but citizens of another country
The fourth grouping is a transitory class, they are visitors. By their nature they hold no loyalty to our country, not must they. They are to be respected in measure of their respect for us (and our Laws), but that's as far as it goes. They are welcome on a temporary basis.
The third group (illegals) must leave. Trump is working to solidify our porous borders and this is good thing, a policy of open borders is simply madness. Come here legally, or don't come.
Sympathy for those (illegals) who came here (or were brought here) as children through no fault (action) of their own is understandable. A soft approach in this respect (DACA) may be good policy (written or not). There is an argument for a formal pathway to naturalization, but such a pathway must come at a price and lawlessness must be 'rewarded' with deportation.
Talk about religion and births is irrelevant. Our's is a secular Nation with freedom of religion, and procreation is none of our Government's business.
Citizens must adhere to our Laws, under our Constitution. The adherent of Sharia (as example) does not necessarily subjugate their religion in this way and may be incompatible with our values- America first, or not at all, sorry.
1. Those born here
2. Those naturalized (or, on their path to naturalization)
3. Those who are here illegally
There is also a fourth group worth a mention.
4. Those who are (temporarily) lawfully resident but citizens of another country
The fourth grouping is a transitory class, they are visitors. By their nature they hold no loyalty to our country, not must they. They are to be respected in measure of their respect for us (and our Laws), but that's as far as it goes. They are welcome on a temporary basis.
The third group (illegals) must leave. Trump is working to solidify our porous borders and this is good thing, a policy of open borders is simply madness. Come here legally, or don't come.
Sympathy for those (illegals) who came here (or were brought here) as children through no fault (action) of their own is understandable. A soft approach in this respect (DACA) may be good policy (written or not). There is an argument for a formal pathway to naturalization, but such a pathway must come at a price and lawlessness must be 'rewarded' with deportation.
Talk about religion and births is irrelevant. Our's is a secular Nation with freedom of religion, and procreation is none of our Government's business.
Citizens must adhere to our Laws, under our Constitution. The adherent of Sharia (as example) does not necessarily subjugate their religion in this way and may be incompatible with our values- America first, or not at all, sorry.
13
Its funny how a few words tossed absentmindedly into the mix change everything.
Writing of DACA you say (parenthetically) "(written or not)" and move on. Those three words, especially in the time of a President as wildly unreliable as our current one, can change a life.
An unwritten policy leaves career, education, family exposed to transient swings of mood and momentary rage our President brings to his really scary Twitter posts. You may wake up one morning and find yourself sought after, detained and deported just because Colbert made fun of Trump's hair.
A written policy, always subject to change, allows a sense of security, belonging, and dependability in your current status that, in turn, makes everything easier and far more possible.
It seems this matters not at all to you but as immigrants are subject to constant observation and criticism, its a critical issue. Constantly held to higher standards than our own citizens, this casual toss-aside represents a hurdle they should not need to address on a daily basis.
Speaking of America and its citizens, you say they must adhere to our laws, and you bring up the old (very dated) ultra-Right bogey man of Sharia law to show why some immigrants may not fit in here. But what about some Americans' devotion to bizarre churches of domestic origin, churches they openly value more than their country, doctrines they openly employ to circumvent the law?
Focus on the Family is no less a threat to this nation than Islam.
Writing of DACA you say (parenthetically) "(written or not)" and move on. Those three words, especially in the time of a President as wildly unreliable as our current one, can change a life.
An unwritten policy leaves career, education, family exposed to transient swings of mood and momentary rage our President brings to his really scary Twitter posts. You may wake up one morning and find yourself sought after, detained and deported just because Colbert made fun of Trump's hair.
A written policy, always subject to change, allows a sense of security, belonging, and dependability in your current status that, in turn, makes everything easier and far more possible.
It seems this matters not at all to you but as immigrants are subject to constant observation and criticism, its a critical issue. Constantly held to higher standards than our own citizens, this casual toss-aside represents a hurdle they should not need to address on a daily basis.
Speaking of America and its citizens, you say they must adhere to our laws, and you bring up the old (very dated) ultra-Right bogey man of Sharia law to show why some immigrants may not fit in here. But what about some Americans' devotion to bizarre churches of domestic origin, churches they openly value more than their country, doctrines they openly employ to circumvent the law?
Focus on the Family is no less a threat to this nation than Islam.
The pathway to US citizenship already exists for people illegally in the US. They do not like the path and it requires hard work, which they refuse to do. Following the law is beneath them.
The 3rd group you mentioned is defined that way due to the nonsensical laws of the past 2 decades. Your ancestors would too have been defined As illegals if they showed up at our doorsteps today. We need people at all strata of skill levels to keep our country prosperous. It's best to take people from all over the planet rather than restricting them to certain geographic areas. Remember the few Caucasian exporting countries these days are strictly of the non Christian variety
As long as we're having fun here, does Mr. Stephens plan on deconstructing his assertion that people whose families have been in the US for generations are more trouble and immigrants. How, for example, does Mr. S explain the crime rates in South Phoenix, especially for violent crime, being significantly higher than in the parts of the city where the residents' families have been here far longer. Do national crime statistics show that non-Hispanic white are troublesome than Hispanic whites? No. The trick here is that Mr. S (and immigration advocates) are comparing all non-immigrant Americans (white, black and native) with immigrants (Asian, Hispanic, etc).
15
What prejudiced, muddled thinking by the Times' newest conservative columnist.
Why does being a Christian or starting a business or having many kids make anyone superior to anybody else? Like a non Christian or atheist, who works for an employer, and has no or few kids?
And just what does the US really have to offer in its present state?
Per OECD, It lags other capitalist democracies in economic/social equality and mobility, in health care and worker protections.
It has a more insecure middle/ working class compared to its own past.
It has increased civil rights violations, where once it was a leader aspiring to progress.
And guns everywhere are a clear and present danger as almost daily news reports confirm.
The group that really needs to be deported is the Right Wing Radical Republicans, who have taken over 3 branches and state govts. They contradict American ideals of equality, meritocracy and govt of, by, for the people.
They are damaging democracy by clinging to the policies of super rich megadonors to our elections. By equating corporate privilege with Freedom they undermine representative govt that the US once pioneered.
Yes, deport the Gop ruthlessly. I wonder what country would take them? Now there’s a topic for speculation.
Why does being a Christian or starting a business or having many kids make anyone superior to anybody else? Like a non Christian or atheist, who works for an employer, and has no or few kids?
And just what does the US really have to offer in its present state?
Per OECD, It lags other capitalist democracies in economic/social equality and mobility, in health care and worker protections.
It has a more insecure middle/ working class compared to its own past.
It has increased civil rights violations, where once it was a leader aspiring to progress.
And guns everywhere are a clear and present danger as almost daily news reports confirm.
The group that really needs to be deported is the Right Wing Radical Republicans, who have taken over 3 branches and state govts. They contradict American ideals of equality, meritocracy and govt of, by, for the people.
They are damaging democracy by clinging to the policies of super rich megadonors to our elections. By equating corporate privilege with Freedom they undermine representative govt that the US once pioneered.
Yes, deport the Gop ruthlessly. I wonder what country would take them? Now there’s a topic for speculation.
43
Meredith, I believe you and Mr. Stephens agree. He is simply defining those GOP types in a more demographically specific manner.
And I agree with both of you.
And I agree with both of you.
22
Really, Nancy? I'd think the Gop I'd like to deport en masse, Stephens would like to see stay in power.
Undocumented workers contributed something like $180 billion to California's economy last year. This year? Not so much. Because of Trump's aggressive deportation and smear-fear campaigns, people are terrorized. While the hit to the economy is still coming--the price is high for shattered communities, families, and lives. Trump and his ilk are using white supremacy tactics disguised as policy to attack vulnerable people. It's the old grifter tactic: let me focus your attention here while I steal from you over there..
70
"Contributed"?
How?
In taxes?
$180 billion?
Hardly.
In fact, California's "undocumented workers" and their families soak up far more in total government benefits (federal, state and local) than the meager taxes they pay (federal, state and local).
If not taxes, then "contribute" $180 billion in what?
Wages?
Total income?
Household purchases?
How?
In taxes?
$180 billion?
Hardly.
In fact, California's "undocumented workers" and their families soak up far more in total government benefits (federal, state and local) than the meager taxes they pay (federal, state and local).
If not taxes, then "contribute" $180 billion in what?
Wages?
Total income?
Household purchases?
2
I see what you did there.
Yeah, I'm tired of the demonization of undocumented people and legal immigrants (who, lets be honest, are often conflated by people who claim to just want people to be in the US legally).
I have been an immigrant, my wife is an immigrant, and we are set to do work in an underserved area where our healthcare professions are sorely needed by a nearly all-US-born population.
Yeah, I'm tired of the demonization of undocumented people and legal immigrants (who, lets be honest, are often conflated by people who claim to just want people to be in the US legally).
I have been an immigrant, my wife is an immigrant, and we are set to do work in an underserved area where our healthcare professions are sorely needed by a nearly all-US-born population.
37
I think the real underlying issue that is raised in Mr. Stephen's Op-Ed is the work ethic crisis. A couple of anecdotes...so please accept them as such...that is, "not scientific". A relative of mine works in the yard/pool maintenance business and has often observed how it is virtually impossible to hire non-immigrants. When he has been able to, they rarely last more than two weeks, thus the prevalence of immigrants, legal and otherwise. On a recent international flight, in conversation with one of the flight attendants whose husband was a transportation supervisor at a major US international airport, she observed that he made every effort to hire citizens but they consistently either failed the drug screening or within a rather short period of time were fired due to absenteeism or some other cause. The jobs paid above minimum wage and had full benefits. As a result, in this particular airport one sees immigrants...usually from Nepal, India, Egypt etc. filling all sorts of infrastructure roles and doing an excellent job. So, I am always puzzled at this virulent fear about immigrants (illegal or otherwise) taking jobs when the non-immigrants Mr. Stephens refers to actually don't want the jobs themselves. Something more basic is at work here, and that concerns me more than any issue of Illegal immigration.
346
Don't be puzzled. It is typical of most Republican/Conservative answers to problems. Simplistic answers to complex problems to appeal to shallow thinking people.
Your anecdotes have been repeated over and over by many different people. There have been reports in many news outlets of drug tests unable to be passed, absenteeism, and poor work ethics. But the people involved choose to believe they are victims, not of themselves, but of people of other nationalities or colors. It's just easier that way and more importantly, there are politicians who will pander to them for their vote.
Your anecdotes have been repeated over and over by many different people. There have been reports in many news outlets of drug tests unable to be passed, absenteeism, and poor work ethics. But the people involved choose to believe they are victims, not of themselves, but of people of other nationalities or colors. It's just easier that way and more importantly, there are politicians who will pander to them for their vote.
1
Mr. Stephens: What a wonderful article.I came here legally from Switzerland as a student. Your article expresses a view which I would never dared to say! Thank you !
69
Everyone on this small Greek island where I live part of the year has a roof terrace. Of course we do. The views of the sea and the coastline and the neighboring islands is better up here. And the horizon wide sunsets! And the cooling breeze on a hot summer evening that keeps you and your ice cubes from melting too fast. But every time the town council meets there are people who want to outlaw any new roof terraces. Because their own privacy will be destroyed. The newcomers might laugh and talk...maybe play music! Nevermind that it's peace and beauty that every one of us, including these ambitious newcomers, are seeking. Happily, each time it comes up, the move gets voted down. Because generosity prevails over self interest. And that's true in America, where polls consistently show that the majority of us understand the value of immigrants -- at least those if us who can remember back, what, two or three generations? -- and are happy to let them join and contribute to this great social experiment. To give them a chance to see the world from the roof.
36
Among the many idiocies in Stephen's thesis, here's just one.
"Without these immigrant moms, the United States would be faced with the same demographic death spiral that now confronts Japan."
Japan does not face any "demographic death spiral".
And neither will the USA if (and when, if ever) immigration control gets serious.
Japan is doing just fine without the kind of rampant population growth that Stephens thinks is such a great idea.
At 120 million people in 1990, Japan was seriously overcrowded.
A drop to 100 million or even 80 million will not hurt Japan one bit.
It will restore sanity to population density there.
As for quality of life, Japan will do just fine without all the extra millions.
And so will the USA.
For quality of life, what counts is GDP per capita,
not total GDP.
Countries like India, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Nigeria will never have the quality of life that prevails in the "advanced countries" unless and until they get their population growth stopped -- not just slowed, but stopped -- and ultimately reversed.
China figured that out 30 years ago. It took drastic measures. But the quality of life in China is not only far higher than it was 30 years ago but is far higher than it will ever be in countries like India, etc. And China's population control and a drop in "fertility" is every bit as much a reason as Chinese economic policy.
Stephens and his pals who yap about "fertility" will not be satisfied until the planet has 100 billion people.
"Without these immigrant moms, the United States would be faced with the same demographic death spiral that now confronts Japan."
Japan does not face any "demographic death spiral".
And neither will the USA if (and when, if ever) immigration control gets serious.
Japan is doing just fine without the kind of rampant population growth that Stephens thinks is such a great idea.
At 120 million people in 1990, Japan was seriously overcrowded.
A drop to 100 million or even 80 million will not hurt Japan one bit.
It will restore sanity to population density there.
As for quality of life, Japan will do just fine without all the extra millions.
And so will the USA.
For quality of life, what counts is GDP per capita,
not total GDP.
Countries like India, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Nigeria will never have the quality of life that prevails in the "advanced countries" unless and until they get their population growth stopped -- not just slowed, but stopped -- and ultimately reversed.
China figured that out 30 years ago. It took drastic measures. But the quality of life in China is not only far higher than it was 30 years ago but is far higher than it will ever be in countries like India, etc. And China's population control and a drop in "fertility" is every bit as much a reason as Chinese economic policy.
Stephens and his pals who yap about "fertility" will not be satisfied until the planet has 100 billion people.
74
You seem to have a very superficial knowledge of Japan. You might want to go into some more detail of how Japan's labor market and economy works. You might also want to look at the country-side, small towns and villages before you come to some conclusion about crowding. You are also extrapolating from the current situation and making some dubious assumptions about Japan's future.
8
I don't disagree with this, except: as a population ages, younger workers are required to support not only themselves, but their elders via Social Security and Medicare in the US. When population growth hits zero, and stays there, we have fewer and fewer people to fill jobs and support those who can no longer work. Immigration is an important means of alleviating this dilemma.
7
Yes - but GDP per capita relies on having enough people of working age to actually keep doing the work and support those in retirement. If the total population rapidly decrease and the elderly population balloons relative to the working age population, any country will find itself in serious trouble. Maybe this is why Angela Merkell is happy to take young, well educated and ambitious immigrants into Germany. Japan would do well to follow her example even if only to maintain its current population.
2
I totally agree with you, Mr. Stephens. The statistics that you provide for the readers are right on the money. If all Americans were aware of them maybe President Trump's denigration of immigrants would not raise the level of bigotry that already prevails in the country. As a successful immigrant myself and proud father of a very successful daughter, I am thankful for the opportunity that the US has given me to flourish as citizen and a human being. I encourage all Americans to learn more about the role that immigration has played and is still playing in building America and making it greater. In my opinion, stopping the flow of immigrants to the US, eventually, will lead to a decline of the nation. Therefore, it is shortsighted of our leaders not to heed your words of wisdom, Mr. Stephens. They must accept the fact that the greatness of the US has always intersected with the very notion and the history of immigration. America must remain a place that welcomes immigrants from all corners of the world for they are an integral part of the dynamism, progress, prosperity and the forward-looking view that characterizes our nation. Unfortunately, nowadays facts are in short supply and statistics are totally meaningless to a lot of people and they are easily manipulated for ideological purposes. Furthermore, it is always much easier to blame the "others" for our personal shortcomings.
40
He lives nearby with several other immigrant men. His wife, son, and daughter live in Mexico.
I don't see Anglo's walking the hot, lonely streets trying to drum up business.
Immigrants, legal or not, like Roman, make "real" Americans look lazy and unappreciative. Because they are.