The NYT has found a reason to pursue a favorite topic, gun control. Democrats have lost almost 1000 state seats and 27 state chambers since 2009, the House in 2011, the Senate in 2015, the White House in 2016, and as result of everything else the Supreme Court in2017. In spite of this Democrats appear to want to pursue gun control.
2
Will the NRA will step up to pay for Mr. Scalise's surgeries? I heard he had 3 of them today and more to come. A shattered pelvis and extensive internal injuries. Maybe they will counsel his kids and wife, and help with the life ahead - the cost will be astronomical. After all, Americans give them a tax exempt status and they champion the right of the mentally ill to easily have access to guns even with the kind of domestic violence that had been reported in the home of the killer.
When our town had a guy walking around with an automatic weapon it was reported by his own neighbor who knew something was definitely off - it was ignored by the dispatcher because as she told the caller "it is legal". 15 minutes and 3 dead people later, our law enforcement could step in and spend the day in the pop up morgue. What can you say - the victims lives will be forever changed- there are 6 kids out there somewhere with a parent killed that day and the same people will say the same things.
Bottom Line: The NRA just moved some product.
When our town had a guy walking around with an automatic weapon it was reported by his own neighbor who knew something was definitely off - it was ignored by the dispatcher because as she told the caller "it is legal". 15 minutes and 3 dead people later, our law enforcement could step in and spend the day in the pop up morgue. What can you say - the victims lives will be forever changed- there are 6 kids out there somewhere with a parent killed that day and the same people will say the same things.
Bottom Line: The NRA just moved some product.
5
If this shooting was much worse, nothing would change. After the elementary shootings of children, and nothing happened...the template was set in stone.
Because it was determined that the second amendment is much more important than the lives of children.
Life in the US, carries a risk. And not just from folks in foreign countries. Why would a terrorist want to kill Americans, when we are doing such a good job of killing each other.
Because it was determined that the second amendment is much more important than the lives of children.
Life in the US, carries a risk. And not just from folks in foreign countries. Why would a terrorist want to kill Americans, when we are doing such a good job of killing each other.
3
Gail, the insults from Trump and Republicans is coming. It's called more guns!
Meanwhile, the House just passed the "hearing protection" bill, which loosens regulations on silencers. This is sick. Truly depraved.
2
Reading all of these uninformed views about guns and gun violence makes me feel good to be part of the NRA. I may become a life member on next renewal. We are more than four million strong across America. The paying subscribership of the Times is an ant in comparison.
4
The saddest aspect about this is nothing will change. There is no practical way to confiscate 400 million guns or whatever the number is. Even if it was made legal to do it, ten of thousands would be killed in such an undertaking. So, in 2-3 months this will have , for all practical purposes, been forgotten and we will move on to the next abomination. Just pray that you luck doesnt run out and you happen to be in the vicinity when the next crazy, middle-aged white man with a real or imagined grievance , decides he wants to be on CNN and get his name in the history books.
12
Here in Montana I watched the local news air quotes from Montana's elected officials in Congress say how horrible was that act of violence. Greg Gianforte mouthed some kind of platitude about how violence is never acceptable.
Greg Gianforte is the newly elected member to Congress who made national news because he body slammed a reporter to the floor and then punched him in the face breaking his glasses.
Anyway more grist for the comment mill.
Greg Gianforte is the newly elected member to Congress who made national news because he body slammed a reporter to the floor and then punched him in the face breaking his glasses.
Anyway more grist for the comment mill.
20
We all wish the injured full recovery.
It's comforting to know that congress members have health insurance and long term rehabilitation programs which will allow them speedy return to the House of Representatives.
Let's hope this terrible incident will make them rethink their position on healthcare four all.
It's comforting to know that congress members have health insurance and long term rehabilitation programs which will allow them speedy return to the House of Representatives.
Let's hope this terrible incident will make them rethink their position on healthcare four all.
19
I cannot stomach another "come together, stop the rhetoric" whining from these miserable, hateful, selfish politicians. And the media are giving them an uncritical outlet. Good ratings!
Only one side advocates violence.
Only one side denies truth
Only one side has zero compassion
Only one side worships and has a hand out to the gun lobby
And the other side is silent and uneffective...
I do not care one bit how they hug each other on the field and sniff a bit on NPR
Both parties are ruining our democracy... Deal with it
Only one side advocates violence.
Only one side denies truth
Only one side has zero compassion
Only one side worships and has a hand out to the gun lobby
And the other side is silent and uneffective...
I do not care one bit how they hug each other on the field and sniff a bit on NPR
Both parties are ruining our democracy... Deal with it
31
I've always thought that the only way we could get the electoral college abolished was to have a Republican win the popular vote and lose the electoral college. Similarly, it may require a far-left gun-nut murderer to get people on the right to recognize the need for gun control. When Life hands you battery acid, try pretending that it's lemon juice.
8
A good start would be for members of Congress, on both sides of the aisle, to pledge NOT to accept any more campaign contributions from the NRA. Wayne LaPierre's hands are drenched with blood. I hope that Representative Scalise pulls through, and wonder if this episode might be a turning point. Sadly, I doubt it.
26
Let's end the Democrats vs. Republicans in the annual softball game.
Let's do it "old school" - draw names from a hat by party affiliation - and play the game with each team a 50/50 mix of D's and R's.
We need to return to that to try and bring some cooperation and real friendship to DC - and the country.
Let's do it "old school" - draw names from a hat by party affiliation - and play the game with each team a 50/50 mix of D's and R's.
We need to return to that to try and bring some cooperation and real friendship to DC - and the country.
16
And I still remember Trump during the campaign saying he could walk down a NYC street shooting and not lose votes.
How pathetic this all is.
How pathetic this all is.
19
Just read the first couple paragraphs, and the take on this would have to be, the only time this "family" behaves itself and acts like grown-ups, is when they're under fire. That's not a very good message to put out there, but what else could be deduced from this action? Really, guys, try acting like grown-ups 24/7 and maybe the nuts will put the guns away.
They kept describing the shooter as a man in a blue shirt, and all I could figure was that it was a blue-collar worker turned Trump voter who just realized this dog and pony show was about to cut him loose from his brand new health insurance.
They kept describing the shooter as a man in a blue shirt, and all I could figure was that it was a blue-collar worker turned Trump voter who just realized this dog and pony show was about to cut him loose from his brand new health insurance.
2
While every media is shouting on the rooftops about a few members of congress being shot by lax gun laws that THEY have allowed to keep happening, I’m looking at a MIN of 24 million people losing health care!
NYT, WHERE ARE YOUR HEADLINES AND OP-EDS?
Medicaid is being “rolled back” two-thirds of us will need Medicaid for nursing homes. These cowards in congress are going after the disabled and food stamps! “If they are able-bodied they can work for food stamps!"
NRA-it isn’t the guns--we need to do something about mental illness! MORE people died of opioid overdoses than ever before--90,000 deaths in 2016 and already worse this year! We had TWENTY-FOUR deaths in one weekend here in central Georgia!
No one brings up the 19,000 killed by their own hand with guns each year. Mental illness is a horrendous disease that takes out tens of thousands with overdoses, self-inflicted gunshots, hangings, single car collisions and NOTHING IS BEING DONE!
Health insur. companies barely cover mental health care. An eye doctor can make $15,000 per cataract surgery, $60,000 an hour, but a psychiatrist can't get more than $80/hr for a 50 minute appt? It’s a LOT harder diagnosing and treating the ravages of mental illness such as schizophrenia than cutting out a clouded lens and inserting a new lens in the eye!
So what if these folks end up homeless on the street. NOT MY problem! WE have an entire month of pink for breast cancer and zero fro mental illness.
OMG does no one get it?
NYT, WHERE ARE YOUR HEADLINES AND OP-EDS?
Medicaid is being “rolled back” two-thirds of us will need Medicaid for nursing homes. These cowards in congress are going after the disabled and food stamps! “If they are able-bodied they can work for food stamps!"
NRA-it isn’t the guns--we need to do something about mental illness! MORE people died of opioid overdoses than ever before--90,000 deaths in 2016 and already worse this year! We had TWENTY-FOUR deaths in one weekend here in central Georgia!
No one brings up the 19,000 killed by their own hand with guns each year. Mental illness is a horrendous disease that takes out tens of thousands with overdoses, self-inflicted gunshots, hangings, single car collisions and NOTHING IS BEING DONE!
Health insur. companies barely cover mental health care. An eye doctor can make $15,000 per cataract surgery, $60,000 an hour, but a psychiatrist can't get more than $80/hr for a 50 minute appt? It’s a LOT harder diagnosing and treating the ravages of mental illness such as schizophrenia than cutting out a clouded lens and inserting a new lens in the eye!
So what if these folks end up homeless on the street. NOT MY problem! WE have an entire month of pink for breast cancer and zero fro mental illness.
OMG does no one get it?
13
Yeah, we do. Stop screaming.
Hypocrites! When one of their own gets shot, it's unthinkable. But with the gun violence that occurs everyday in America and the politicians failure to address it is despicable. Truly, truly SAD!
14
I hear donations will also now go to a group involved with injured police officers. That's a great idea. But how about donating some of the money to those that are targets of gun violence as well. It's these stupid, lenient gun laws that are a big part of this problem and we know who we have to thank for that - the NRA, the gun and ammunition industry, Trump and all those people that think the 2nd amendment gives them the right to walk around with guns because they think they're still in the wild west. That's what we need, more Trump venemous rhetoric and guns to make sure things "calm down" the Breitbart way.
5
What kind of mind thinks that the answer to gun violence is more guns. Maybe I'm dumb, but I just don't get it.
13
It makes perfect sense really. You have to start with the fact that the country has more guns than people. And then you add the fact that killers can go to gun shows and buy semiautomatic rifles with 30-round magazines. If you refuse to stop killers -- even the ones on no-fly lists and mental hospital rosters -- from buying all those guns and all that ammo, then it stands to reason that everyone else needs to be armed to the teeth. And since some of those heavily armed citizens are bound to go berserk and kill, kill, kill, it makes perfect sense that everybody who's able to pick up a gun should have one.
I found it interesting to kisten to Trump stating that he told Scalise's wife thst he would provide "anything" she needed during this crisis. what of the thousands of gunshot victims and their families who aren't privileged Members of Congress? I remember reading how one of the people wounded in Tuscon lay there, bleeding, and wondering if his us insurance would cover him or if this meant losing everything. Most of us can't afford an injury, let alone gunshot wounds.
13
In every social situation, the places with more armed citizens are clearly safer than the places where only the crazy or the criminal are armed.
Why? Because the people you don't want around you will ALWAYS have guns. You can only affect those who might very well come to your defense in a critical situation. Want Chicago to be safer? Give every qualified resident permission to carry, or at LEAST have a gun in the home.
By the way, WHY do Democrats not want the black family to have a gun - JUST like they never let black families have guns during the Democrat Jim Crow days? And during the (Dem.) slavery days? What is it about Dem politicians and black families?
And why did Democrat opposition delay women's suffrage for 40 years?
Why? Because the people you don't want around you will ALWAYS have guns. You can only affect those who might very well come to your defense in a critical situation. Want Chicago to be safer? Give every qualified resident permission to carry, or at LEAST have a gun in the home.
By the way, WHY do Democrats not want the black family to have a gun - JUST like they never let black families have guns during the Democrat Jim Crow days? And during the (Dem.) slavery days? What is it about Dem politicians and black families?
And why did Democrat opposition delay women's suffrage for 40 years?
Since you ask: The Democrats from slavery and Jim Crow days switched to the Republican Party about 40 years ago. And now they're running the country. Most of us already knew that.
14
In reverse order:
1. Because history is real, and things change.
2. I hope to heck you are not armed.
1. Because history is real, and things change.
2. I hope to heck you are not armed.
The gun lobby and our representatives are responsible for so many deaths. When will we learn that they only mouth their platitudes about the sanctity of life when the spotlight is directly on them. The rest of the time it is gun business as usual.
9
Republicans voted to allow the mentally ill to buy guns. I ask: how's that working out for you? Also, now that YOU have been the target of gun violence, can you NOW put yourself in the shoes of others and DO something to minimize gun violence, or are you getting too much money in NRA campaign contributions to do the right thing?
16
This is a little harsh and Trumpesque.
America need to face the fact that shooting people has replaced baseball as the unique American past time. Each year more Americans are shot to death than died in Vietnam. In Canada, which has a lot of guns, only 5 people per million citizens were murdered by gunfire in 2015. In Great Britain which has very few guns in private hands, only one citizen in a million died by gunfire. In the USA in 2015 almost 232 Americans per million citizens died by gun shot. Whether or not you believe in the unfettered right to own a gun, you need to find ways to decrease this slaughter on our streets, and parks and softball fields.
Come together? Yes after they get rid of their guns and the rest of us don't feel threatened.
5
Americans have guns to protect themselves from Americans who have guns.
4
Jaap.
Perfect.
We have met the enemy..it is us...
Perfect.
We have met the enemy..it is us...
"20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform." That sums it up: We have a way to go before we're great. Right now, unfortunately, the incompetents at the helm have us pointed in the wrong direction (like that backwards armada in the Indian Ocean) and a ghostwritten bit of togetherness prose mouthed by the NRA's governmental toadies doesn't change that.
5
I think that if Big City schools were reformed to serve kids instead of teachers and their administrators, we'd have less gun violence. It would be nice if kids' parents valued education and made sure their kids got educated and civilized, but that appears to be several generations in the future, if you're lucky.
Why aren't Big City mayors enforcing laws and send cops after the gangs and their killers? Are they too worried about their jobs, budgets and important voting blocks they don't want to offend?
Why don't presidents and their attorney generals mount more vigorous campaigns against gangsters who kill and terrorize our cities and even rural areas? Too worried about spending that will win them votes rather than about spending that will protect people?
Guns don't kill. People do. Discouraged, mentally ill people and true believers, otherwise known as cult and political groupies who are brainwashed because their educations haven't prepare them for good jobs or to reject the gangs and cults.
Why is the agenda guns and not electing leaders who don't teach our kids to demonize, hate, lie and bully?
Why aren't Big City mayors enforcing laws and send cops after the gangs and their killers? Are they too worried about their jobs, budgets and important voting blocks they don't want to offend?
Why don't presidents and their attorney generals mount more vigorous campaigns against gangsters who kill and terrorize our cities and even rural areas? Too worried about spending that will win them votes rather than about spending that will protect people?
Guns don't kill. People do. Discouraged, mentally ill people and true believers, otherwise known as cult and political groupies who are brainwashed because their educations haven't prepare them for good jobs or to reject the gangs and cults.
Why is the agenda guns and not electing leaders who don't teach our kids to demonize, hate, lie and bully?
1
Republicans in Congress did only one thing for the mentally ill in the USA this year. They made it easier for persons collecting SSDI because of adjudicated mental illness to purchase firearms. Obama ATF policy disallowed such purchases, so Republicans passed a law legalizing the sale of semi automatic weapons to paranoid schizophrenics.
Doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy?
Doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy?
15
Oh what I would give for a one-hour panel discussion on the Second Amendment by Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Hamilton, Washington, and Franklin, even though he died the year before Congress passed the Bill of Rights. Or if that's too hard, any three of them for 15 minutes. Please?
3
People can hope all they want but our gun laws are going to be relaxed in DC because now, Congress is afraid. Paul Rand and others going on and on about being sitting ducks in an open field was sickening. Our children, 20 first-graders at Sandy Hook Elementary were sitting ducks and they were trapped in their classroom with a madman blasting bullets using a XM15-E2S semi-automatic rifle.
President Obama and the nation grieved and we were horrified but it didn't change Congress. The House and the Senate will not change until we vote them out and trust me it will be a difficult task because the Republicans will have the NRA and Koch, Adelson, etc. money and FOX will continue to lie.
President Obama and the nation grieved and we were horrified but it didn't change Congress. The House and the Senate will not change until we vote them out and trust me it will be a difficult task because the Republicans will have the NRA and Koch, Adelson, etc. money and FOX will continue to lie.
4
In the US there is an increasing army of anxious individuals--people afflicted by anxiety born of economic insecurity, job insecurity, marital insecurity, healthcare insecurity, elder care insecurity, etc. Is it a surprise that some of these anxious individuals become increasingly unstable and haunted by the suspicion that the system is rigged against them? Is it surprising that, in a land of readily available firearms, a significant number of these individuals will use these weapons to strike out at whomever they perceive to be the cause of their haunted condition? Or that, as their mental health further deteriorates, they will shoot anyone who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
3
I grew up with guns. We kept them leaning against the wall behind the kitchen door. When I was a little kid my father cut down a shotgun for me so I could reach the trigger. Snap, a friend's older brother, got shot in the eye on a bird shoot. What happened I asked. He got a ricochet they said. For several years I thought a ricochet was an eye condition, like a cataract.
That was then. A long time ago. In a rural world that hardly exists anymore.
Guns today are semiautomatic and powerful, often owned by urban dwellers. Round numbers: we shoot about 130,000 citizens every year. About 40,000 die, and those are the cheapest. Many others linger on for years paralyzed or brain damaged. Those are the expensive ones. If the cost of gun mayhem is $500,000 a year per victim then the total cost would be $65 billion a year. That cost is currently borne by victims, their families, and government social programs.
I know we love guns, but we should at least require gun owners to pay into a reserve fund to cover these costs. Payments to victims should be no fault: you get shot you (or your survivors) get paid by the fund, not by the owner who shot you. No questions asked, no courts, no lawyers.
That was then. A long time ago. In a rural world that hardly exists anymore.
Guns today are semiautomatic and powerful, often owned by urban dwellers. Round numbers: we shoot about 130,000 citizens every year. About 40,000 die, and those are the cheapest. Many others linger on for years paralyzed or brain damaged. Those are the expensive ones. If the cost of gun mayhem is $500,000 a year per victim then the total cost would be $65 billion a year. That cost is currently borne by victims, their families, and government social programs.
I know we love guns, but we should at least require gun owners to pay into a reserve fund to cover these costs. Payments to victims should be no fault: you get shot you (or your survivors) get paid by the fund, not by the owner who shot you. No questions asked, no courts, no lawyers.
3
With the governments you have both federally and state at the moment and being a cynic about this in view of all the tragedies over the last several years, i predict the opposite. There will be a further demand for the right to carry so that everyone will be prepared no matter what. You will see this in all states within the next 5 years or so. The gun lobby is too big, gun fighting is glorified on TV and movies and people are too paranoid and think that guns will help them.
2
Until we make adequate mental health care more widely available than assault weapons to those with poor coping skills or mental demons we can expect more of the same, particularly in the current climate of political discourse!
1
No, we are NOT "all one family". I do not believe for a moment that 'Family' would act in such a way to mortally threaten my existence - especially for the sake of enabling and indulging the wealthiest among us in greater pursuit of equally questionable lifestyles.
1
I grew up in the 40's and 50's, attending a regional high school in Mass. There were no drugs, no special ed, no police officers (I never saw one at school in 12 years), and no fights. Today the schools are full of drugs, 30+% of the students are special ed, police regularly walk the halls, and fights are common. I believe the problems we face today, including violence and drugs, are not "the" problem but are endemic of a more structural one within our society itself. We have met the problem, and it is us.
2
Australia put thru gun reform with spectacular results. Israel severely limits private possession of firearms and has seen a huge reduction in murders and suicides. England does not even arm all their cops ("Bobbies") and suffers a small fraction of the murders and suicides we have. Our 2nd Amendment was never meant to enable the permanent Wild-Wild-West mentality that plagues our country.
6
In my opinion, this problem we have with guns is just one tumor in our body politic that is riddled with the cancer of money. We are a sick country that seems to not really care if 36,000 people a year die from gun violence while the NRA reaps obscene profits from unfettered gun sales.
If Sandy Hook, when so many innocent children died, didn't move us then nothing will.
There is a fuss about Steve Scalise's injury, a man that has an a-1 rating by the NRA (can we ascertain how much he donates to the NRA or what they "reward" him with to get such a rating?), and by the way, he is getting the best medical care money can buy while he votes against denying health care for millions of Americans.
Think of the children gunned down in Sandy Hook (and that's just one horrific incident when innocent people going about their lives are killed by gunshots) and no regulations resulted. How skewed are this country's priorities?
In 1911, after the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, (my great aunt was a survivor!) where venal owners locked the doors to prevent the workers from taking breaks, and 146 souls, most young girls, were killed when a fire broke out. There was such an outcry that after the investigations, the findings led to thirty-eight new laws regulating labor in New York State.
Why are we not doing something about the NRA's keeping a whole country hostage in the name of profit, while cynically distorting the meaning of the Second Amendment for its nefarious ends?
If Sandy Hook, when so many innocent children died, didn't move us then nothing will.
There is a fuss about Steve Scalise's injury, a man that has an a-1 rating by the NRA (can we ascertain how much he donates to the NRA or what they "reward" him with to get such a rating?), and by the way, he is getting the best medical care money can buy while he votes against denying health care for millions of Americans.
Think of the children gunned down in Sandy Hook (and that's just one horrific incident when innocent people going about their lives are killed by gunshots) and no regulations resulted. How skewed are this country's priorities?
In 1911, after the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire, (my great aunt was a survivor!) where venal owners locked the doors to prevent the workers from taking breaks, and 146 souls, most young girls, were killed when a fire broke out. There was such an outcry that after the investigations, the findings led to thirty-eight new laws regulating labor in New York State.
Why are we not doing something about the NRA's keeping a whole country hostage in the name of profit, while cynically distorting the meaning of the Second Amendment for its nefarious ends?
7
A FUSS about Rep Scalise?
I happen to be a lefty, and let me explain this to you.
The Congressman is in critical condition because when you shoot a human being in the hip with a high-velocity, jacketed round, bone fragments and metal shards take their random courses through the entire lower body.
He's likely got bits and pieces of this and that in his bladder, lower intestine, and GI tract. Possibly, as far back as his lower spine. My semiamateur guess is, if he survives and isn't oermanently crippled, he's lucky.
If yours is leftism,mwhich it isn't please keep it.,
I do not agree with Congressman Scalise about an earthly thing, I suspect.,
I happen to be a lefty, and let me explain this to you.
The Congressman is in critical condition because when you shoot a human being in the hip with a high-velocity, jacketed round, bone fragments and metal shards take their random courses through the entire lower body.
He's likely got bits and pieces of this and that in his bladder, lower intestine, and GI tract. Possibly, as far back as his lower spine. My semiamateur guess is, if he survives and isn't oermanently crippled, he's lucky.
If yours is leftism,mwhich it isn't please keep it.,
I do not agree with Congressman Scalise about an earthly thing, I suspect.,
Great column. When we as individuals and as a nation feel hope is gone, the best cure is activity. The suggestions in this column are reasonable and each of us can do one or more of them.
We don't need immediate success which would be foolish to expect, but we do need the strength to keep going on, one foot in front of another until we have walked what needs to be walked today. Tomorrow we will start again.
Other countries have put in place reasonable gun safety regulations; the US can do it too. As a nation we have accomplished other tasks over stronger opposition. From Gail Collins' to G-d's ears, "This is a righteous cause."
We don't need immediate success which would be foolish to expect, but we do need the strength to keep going on, one foot in front of another until we have walked what needs to be walked today. Tomorrow we will start again.
Other countries have put in place reasonable gun safety regulations; the US can do it too. As a nation we have accomplished other tasks over stronger opposition. From Gail Collins' to G-d's ears, "This is a righteous cause."
4
I am US citizen have been living in Asia for last 10 + years where guns are prohibited. I never have to worry about a crazy guy shooting from nowhere threatening my life. I don't live in fear as US citizens confronted with everyday. We need to take gradual steps to illegalize guns in USA. Influence of NRA on political system should be contained. There is no other alternative. I hope politicians, once in for all, act above and do the right things than worrying about getting votes.
2
Americans put to much mythology in the act of gun ownership. At the end of the day all gun owners are on the honor system regarding how they ultimately use them, irrespective of what ever laws are in place.
Many of the large gun manufacturers who now push the narrative in America of “more guns means more safety” are the gun manufacturers of the former Axis powers (Germany: Sig Sauer; Italy: Beretta; Austria: Glock). Their countries have rational gun laws, so they now rely on “patriotic” Americans to keep their gun industries alive. It is ironic and most unpatriotic to rationalize the ongoing carnage caused by former Axis power weapons flooding our streets with historically incorrect references to the Second Amendment and with utter disregard for the many American heroes who died defeating the Axis powers. Both they and the Founding Fathers did not have in mind any “Second Amendment Right” to the illogic of never-ending gun acquisition when they fought and died for our rights. Stand up America; you're being duped!
6
The shooter in Washington was obviously a very troubled man. That's not remarkable -- as others have noted, "nuts come in all flavours". Certainly, the left is no more immune to mental illness that the right.
But what observers from other countries find incomprehensible is the fact that such an obviously dangerous individual found it so easy to arm himself in such a fashion. No background check, no mandatory safety training, no records -- just go the local gun show and buy yourself an arsenal. And then go use it. 2nd Amendment, or no 2nd Amendment (although I still can't figure out how the Supreme Court managed to miss the "well-regulated militia" portion included therein), this is not something which takes place in a civilized society. Or even a sane one.
The fact is that the rest of the world is being forced to one simple, albeit horrifying, conclusion. Certainly, no reasonable alternative seems to present itself. Americans -- for whatever reason or reasons -- simply enjoy killing each other to much to actually do anything about it. Your foreign friends and relatives don't understand why, and we certainly don't know what can be done about it. All we can do is shake our heads in despair and prey for out American neighbours.
But what observers from other countries find incomprehensible is the fact that such an obviously dangerous individual found it so easy to arm himself in such a fashion. No background check, no mandatory safety training, no records -- just go the local gun show and buy yourself an arsenal. And then go use it. 2nd Amendment, or no 2nd Amendment (although I still can't figure out how the Supreme Court managed to miss the "well-regulated militia" portion included therein), this is not something which takes place in a civilized society. Or even a sane one.
The fact is that the rest of the world is being forced to one simple, albeit horrifying, conclusion. Certainly, no reasonable alternative seems to present itself. Americans -- for whatever reason or reasons -- simply enjoy killing each other to much to actually do anything about it. Your foreign friends and relatives don't understand why, and we certainly don't know what can be done about it. All we can do is shake our heads in despair and prey for out American neighbours.
5
We are not one family. The president and Congress is not unified with the majority of Americans. Americans are subjected daily to the possibility of "crazy" gunmen attacking them in schools, malls, movie theaters, highways, at work, at home. Their surprised response that this could happen while they were playing baseball shows their real disconnect from what is happening outside of their bubble. Passage of more and more lenient gun laws, a bill to relax restrictions on gun silencers and an abject refusal to put into place the barest restrictions shows just how uncaring they are for the safety of the citizens. Welcome to reality Congress, welcome to OUR world of people carrying AK's on their shoulders in grocery stores, big box stores and on the streets of our towns and cities. You think you're scared!!!!
4
Speaking only for myself as a still grief stricken family member of a gun murder victim I know in my heart-of-hearts that it is the GUN itself that is the persistent prime element in our common human misery. No guns, no gun deaths- simple.
It is our righteous cause and we ALL best be doing something about it.
Never mind that handy clap-trap about the right to bare arms. We all have the right to ordinary human safety whilst playing baseball. Send kind thoughts to Representative Scalisi. I pray and invite you to join me in prayer seeking an answer to America epidemic of death by guns. AND...if you can get your Representative to answer his office phone, complain to him. My Representative, Lee Zeldin, U.S.C.D.# ONE does not answer his phone and keeps his district office doors locked and does not effectively communicate with his own district citizens. He get high marks from the NRA and likes it that way. Meanwhile our once lovely now dangerous Long Island has at least one gun murder per day. OK, tell me it's not the GUN!
It is our righteous cause and we ALL best be doing something about it.
Never mind that handy clap-trap about the right to bare arms. We all have the right to ordinary human safety whilst playing baseball. Send kind thoughts to Representative Scalisi. I pray and invite you to join me in prayer seeking an answer to America epidemic of death by guns. AND...if you can get your Representative to answer his office phone, complain to him. My Representative, Lee Zeldin, U.S.C.D.# ONE does not answer his phone and keeps his district office doors locked and does not effectively communicate with his own district citizens. He get high marks from the NRA and likes it that way. Meanwhile our once lovely now dangerous Long Island has at least one gun murder per day. OK, tell me it's not the GUN!
2
We are a nation of cowards too afraid to stand up to those who believe their right to own and use a gun abridges everybody's right to peace, safety and freedom in their everyday comings and goings.
3
As a Canadian this American gun worship never ceases to blow me away. On a personal level in my youth my family had some significant family strife centering around a sibling. Because the only weapons were words and feet...walking away...everyone has survived to old age. I fairly regularly sample Coast to Coast, a radio programme. I stumbled.on it accidentally back in the Art Bell days when it was silly and fun. Not so much these days because to my observations is that the programme has swung to the right and I am left even by Canadian standards. Anyways Noori last night launched into standard NRA rhetoric....guns could have stopped the London Bridge attack...dubious...if England was gun infested like the USA the attack.would probably not have been so low level as a hire van and I do not see how a revolver would have stopped it any faster than it was...8.5 minutes. Ever since the TROUBLES and all the conflict with the IRA which has been going on forever England has had some of the most intense security in the world.
So Noori says...in a discussion with a gun control.advocate...says I am never giving up.my gun..he proudly says he is a concealed carry person...and.what.about the bad guys with guns. What about them George. What strikes me is the closed mindesness. The attitudes..the narrowmindedness is like the Irish during the TROUBLES..That is to me the.USA is in the middle of a variety of civil war with guns one of the major issues.
So Noori says...in a discussion with a gun control.advocate...says I am never giving up.my gun..he proudly says he is a concealed carry person...and.what.about the bad guys with guns. What about them George. What strikes me is the closed mindesness. The attitudes..the narrowmindedness is like the Irish during the TROUBLES..That is to me the.USA is in the middle of a variety of civil war with guns one of the major issues.
4
The NRA and their surrogates will not even let the CDC study gun violence as a disease. They have been successful for decades. There is overwhelming data that if that happened that would be one piece of the puzzle that would help.
9
It's clear from these responses that many people identify with Collins' column. I, too, am moved by the gun violence in this country. At the same time, I strongly support the view that the Second Amendment applies to individuals, not just militias. And I support civil discourse on just what that means. But I wish that discourse was more honest and better informed. See Collins' last paragraph.
"You can demand laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks... "
Her call for involvement is noble. But she ignores reality by failing to note that we already have strict national laws prohibiting criminals from buying guns. We have laws prohibiting federally licensed gun sellers from "ignoring" background checks. It is irresponsible to suggest otherwise. Call for greater funding for the ATF to police gun sales. Call for support for federal prosecutors to take those criminals to trial and send them to jail.
Other commenters are allowed to likewise perpetuate myths about firearm regulation. For instance, there is no law protecting a gun manufacturer or dealer from a lawsuit seeking damages for selling defective merchandise, just like auto manufacturers. Gun dealers also can be sued for knowingly selling a firearm to a "prohibited person." What manufacturers and dealers cannot be sued for is the illegal use -- murder, for instance -- of their products by purchasers.
"You can demand laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks... "
Her call for involvement is noble. But she ignores reality by failing to note that we already have strict national laws prohibiting criminals from buying guns. We have laws prohibiting federally licensed gun sellers from "ignoring" background checks. It is irresponsible to suggest otherwise. Call for greater funding for the ATF to police gun sales. Call for support for federal prosecutors to take those criminals to trial and send them to jail.
Other commenters are allowed to likewise perpetuate myths about firearm regulation. For instance, there is no law protecting a gun manufacturer or dealer from a lawsuit seeking damages for selling defective merchandise, just like auto manufacturers. Gun dealers also can be sued for knowingly selling a firearm to a "prohibited person." What manufacturers and dealers cannot be sued for is the illegal use -- murder, for instance -- of their products by purchasers.
1
If guns were already this highly regulated, it's hard to see why there is such an almost hysterical reaction against what Pewboy tells us would be redundant legislation. Maybe he should advise the firearms industry and the NRA to save a ton of money by not doing any more lobbying against regulations that couldn't add any strictness to our supposedly already strict laws. Apparently the industry feels that further regulation might have some real effects - and we can assume that they are smart people with their eyes on their bottom line. So I would go with their analysis rather than Pewboy's. Better gun laws do make a difference. Let's pass common sense gun laws.
And also, on the cultural front, rather than the legal front, let's publicly argue against the industry's fear-mongering, and their mythologies about guns protecting the home, and about the armed citizen battling tyranny.
And also, on the cultural front, rather than the legal front, let's publicly argue against the industry's fear-mongering, and their mythologies about guns protecting the home, and about the armed citizen battling tyranny.
4
I appreciate your courage in speaking about the recent shooting where the fearful dare not tread; how guns have impacted our civilized society. I noticed there were cries to keep the victims in thoughts and prayers and not mention the root cause for the crime i.e. hatred and the easy availability of guns. In recent weeks, Kamau Bell on CNN and Jordan Klepper on Comedy Central found ways to heighten the discussion about guns in an effort to draw opposite sides of the issue to find commonality. If we follow the directions you have given and continue to support TV commentators for their efforts, we just might make some strides before I leave this planet.
4
When the President makes a statement and the fact that he doesn't insult anyone in the process has to held up as good behavior on his part, there might be a problem. The President has led us down a dark rhetorical road to this point.
10
so true thanks. i've gotten so accustomed to not noticing when he doesn't insult someone that it took your comment to do it
1
Crocodile tears today; increased access to weapons tomorrow; nothing changes. We are a violent country that paradoxically values life; and we criticize Iran. We are the world's arms merchant- addicted to exporting violence, how can we act surprised when we are its victims? I vividly recall Bernard Getz gunning down people on the NYC subways in the 1990's- and today, NYC is a safe city. There is hope.
9
Gail--Thank you for this column, especially for your final two paragraphs. And I mean that sincerely.
14
States should adopt the ones implemented by Connecticut. Gun deaths have dropped dramatically.
8
American gun manufacturers have a lot of blood on their hands. When sales of handguns were faltering in the 1980’s, an aggressive sales campaign by manufacturers pushed the popularity of assault style weapons. Eventually Congress passed laws prohibiting citizens from suing gun manufacturers. Latest statistics from the CDC, based on the year 2014: deaths by guns:
33, 599; deaths by car accidents: 33,736. We can sue auto manufacturers for faulty vehicles and drivers for accidents, yet gun manufacturers are answerable to no one.
33, 599; deaths by car accidents: 33,736. We can sue auto manufacturers for faulty vehicles and drivers for accidents, yet gun manufacturers are answerable to no one.
19
Violence begets violence. I read a statement in an article discussing same sex marriage (source undocumented) which included this phrase "normative power of the actual". This was defined as an idea or situation that people get used to over time and come to think of as normal. I think this is an apt description of how our society now responds to gun violence. Unless prominent or large numbers of people are harmed, most incidents are just one day news blips-at best. There really is no defense that supports our continuing to enable these incidents. Those who hide behind the foil of the Second Amendment can not be excused as simply exercising their "rights". Will we ever be able to be a gun free nation? No, but I think it is well past time to enact common sense laws and enforcement of same to reduce and control who is allowed to purchase weapons and limit what weapons are available for public purchase.
Will this eliminate our problems? No-but we must start somewhere. A Congress that refuses to act is, in my opinion, as guilty as those who commit the crimes. And, people who continue to vote these people into office are also just as complicit.
Will this eliminate our problems? No-but we must start somewhere. A Congress that refuses to act is, in my opinion, as guilty as those who commit the crimes. And, people who continue to vote these people into office are also just as complicit.
19
What a unique and transformative expression of our current circumstances. Very helpful.
The NRA donations to our election campaigns is a causitive factor in our huge gun violence. The 1st crucial step is general campaign finance reform that applies to all corporate megadonors. Achieving gun control while leaving that in place is impossible. We must free up our tethered lawmakers to work for us. Many of them say they hate fund raising.
Our election funding is designed to increase the influence of special interests over public interest. It's contradictory to the spirit of democracy. Polls show on a myriad of issues, voter majorities want what they're NOT getting---to stop big money domination of laws on guns, health care, Wall St regulations, climate change, etc. An obvious common denominator.
So before we can save lives from gun shots, we have to go much further back in the chain of causation. The rw blame individual responsiblity as the Cause ignoring how motive, means, opportunity work together. Guns are the easy means, and increase motive in unstable individuals.
Campaign finance alternatives are ignored by news media and columnists. Yet it directly impinges on every issue they do discuss. Explain how other countries pay for their elections. Citizens live longer in nations with more public funding and limits on private donations to level the playing field away from special interests, in favor of citizen majority well being.
Our election funding is designed to increase the influence of special interests over public interest. It's contradictory to the spirit of democracy. Polls show on a myriad of issues, voter majorities want what they're NOT getting---to stop big money domination of laws on guns, health care, Wall St regulations, climate change, etc. An obvious common denominator.
So before we can save lives from gun shots, we have to go much further back in the chain of causation. The rw blame individual responsiblity as the Cause ignoring how motive, means, opportunity work together. Guns are the easy means, and increase motive in unstable individuals.
Campaign finance alternatives are ignored by news media and columnists. Yet it directly impinges on every issue they do discuss. Explain how other countries pay for their elections. Citizens live longer in nations with more public funding and limits on private donations to level the playing field away from special interests, in favor of citizen majority well being.
15
I believe that public funding for all elections, coupled with reinstating the Fairness Doctrine for all forms of media, are the two most effective things we could do to becomes a democracy once more. The first would negate the power of corporations and wealthy individuals to hold our politicians hostage for campaign funding; the second would negate the power of right-wing media (I am looking at you, Fox News, Breitbart, InfoWars, and hate radio) to poison the minds of our fellow citizens with a steady diet of disinformation.
In the 1830s when de Tocqueville visited here, he saw a vibrant democracy where every day people debated public policy in the streets. He also presciently saw the destructive power of the rising industrialist class and warned that they did not know their employees or care about their welfare. He contrasted that to the centuries old system of mutual obligations between landlords and peasants in Europe (I am well aware of the short-comings and revolutions that system provoked). His point was that the landlords interacted with the peasants, knew them, and in traditional ways celebrated common events with them. He warned against the them/us split between what Marx would later call labor and capitol.
That split underpins, directly or indirectly, nearly all the social problems and intractable political divides we experience today. End our corrupt political financing system and require fairness in the media to facilitate the changes we so desperately need.
In the 1830s when de Tocqueville visited here, he saw a vibrant democracy where every day people debated public policy in the streets. He also presciently saw the destructive power of the rising industrialist class and warned that they did not know their employees or care about their welfare. He contrasted that to the centuries old system of mutual obligations between landlords and peasants in Europe (I am well aware of the short-comings and revolutions that system provoked). His point was that the landlords interacted with the peasants, knew them, and in traditional ways celebrated common events with them. He warned against the them/us split between what Marx would later call labor and capitol.
That split underpins, directly or indirectly, nearly all the social problems and intractable political divides we experience today. End our corrupt political financing system and require fairness in the media to facilitate the changes we so desperately need.
8
No gun control legislation?? Then maybe we can change our national anthem to......"Happiness Is A Warm Gun" by The Beatles. The lyrics are available on line.
17
Did some founding father say the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots? It all depends on your definition of liberty. There is plenty of blood but who are the Patriots? And is a tree really helped by gallons of salty blood? Maybe careful watering and fertilizer is better.
8
ACJ - many gun fanatics are consumed with fear. Guns make them feel safer. They aren't safer, but they feel more powerful and therefore safer. What are they so afraid of? Everything. Their neighbors. The government. People who are different. A belief that other countries will invade us if we aren't all armed. Immigrants. Black people. Other religions. The UN. In short, they are scaredy cats who need to hide behind their killing machines to get through each scary day.
26
There is also an idea, strongly promoted by the NRA, that guns in the hands of citizens are a defense against the encroachments of a tyrannical government. In this fantasy, they not only form a kind of militia defending us all against some imaginary invader, but they are supposed to be ready to rise up against our own government if it becomes oppressive. I don't imagine they picture an event like that in Arlington, but you can see how someone might see some parallels between the NRA fantasy, and what Hodgkinson thought he was doing.
All these calls for "togetherness" on Capitol Hill, even from Trump, are pure hypocrisy at its best.
Paul Ryan, saying "we're one big family" is insulting coming from the House leader spearheading so many programs that will enrich the few (his Capitol Hill family) and kill the rest of us (no jobs, no healthcare) and the environment.
These same politicians haven't given a flip over the carnage of the past two weeks. Trump mocked the recent London Bridge attack, then blamed London's mayor for it.
These precious ballplayers act like they're the only ones in the U.S. who have been slaughtered by lunatics. Without guns, the baseball attack would have had zero chance of happening. I don't hear the Right calling for gun control now. They like the NRA's contributions too much for that.
I support banning weapons in the U. S. The 2nd amendment is outdated and has been interpreted now to permit open carry, with its unsaid message of, "Don't make me angry...I could kill you."
Our Capitol Hill "family" could be described as cruelly dysfunctional. While some voters (lobbyists, rich folk) personally know and are fond of members of Congress, I am pretty sure other, more colorful descriptives of these same people are used by most.
I foresee Trump wanting access to all our Facebook accounts, to smother free speech about his administration.
As to the fallen, at baseball practice and in the world this week, I am sorry for their and their familys' personal agony.
Paul Ryan, saying "we're one big family" is insulting coming from the House leader spearheading so many programs that will enrich the few (his Capitol Hill family) and kill the rest of us (no jobs, no healthcare) and the environment.
These same politicians haven't given a flip over the carnage of the past two weeks. Trump mocked the recent London Bridge attack, then blamed London's mayor for it.
These precious ballplayers act like they're the only ones in the U.S. who have been slaughtered by lunatics. Without guns, the baseball attack would have had zero chance of happening. I don't hear the Right calling for gun control now. They like the NRA's contributions too much for that.
I support banning weapons in the U. S. The 2nd amendment is outdated and has been interpreted now to permit open carry, with its unsaid message of, "Don't make me angry...I could kill you."
Our Capitol Hill "family" could be described as cruelly dysfunctional. While some voters (lobbyists, rich folk) personally know and are fond of members of Congress, I am pretty sure other, more colorful descriptives of these same people are used by most.
I foresee Trump wanting access to all our Facebook accounts, to smother free speech about his administration.
As to the fallen, at baseball practice and in the world this week, I am sorry for their and their familys' personal agony.
22
Gun violence is a public health epidemic in all of our major cities, at the very least.
It affects EVERYONE's access to health care / resources ... that ER team tending that gunshot wound isn't available to treat your heart attack, stroke, car accident injuries, etc.
And gun violence affects health care costs. Again, treating complex, high velocity gunshot wounds is costly and recovery lengthy. Such an devastating injury to other than a member of Congress would likely fall on taxpayers and/or bankrupt an individual and their family.
So, it will be interesting to see how those directly affected by the Alexandria shooting feel, fare, act and vote down the line. Will such a direct armed assault move the needle at all in their thinking, in what they report back to their constituents?
It's too soon to say. From those shot, to those nearly shot, to those who missed being shot, but were in close proximity ... they will all have some emotional 'unpacking' to do.
Adrenaline still pumping, Rep.(?) Fleischman (?) was on 'Charlie Rose' last night. Despite his 'near miss' experience, plus witnessing the aftermath, he was speaking up loud & clear for the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment. Said his district was overwhelmingly for firm 2nd Amendment 'protections.'
So, we'll see.
But, I'm not optimistic.
It affects EVERYONE's access to health care / resources ... that ER team tending that gunshot wound isn't available to treat your heart attack, stroke, car accident injuries, etc.
And gun violence affects health care costs. Again, treating complex, high velocity gunshot wounds is costly and recovery lengthy. Such an devastating injury to other than a member of Congress would likely fall on taxpayers and/or bankrupt an individual and their family.
So, it will be interesting to see how those directly affected by the Alexandria shooting feel, fare, act and vote down the line. Will such a direct armed assault move the needle at all in their thinking, in what they report back to their constituents?
It's too soon to say. From those shot, to those nearly shot, to those who missed being shot, but were in close proximity ... they will all have some emotional 'unpacking' to do.
Adrenaline still pumping, Rep.(?) Fleischman (?) was on 'Charlie Rose' last night. Despite his 'near miss' experience, plus witnessing the aftermath, he was speaking up loud & clear for the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment. Said his district was overwhelmingly for firm 2nd Amendment 'protections.'
So, we'll see.
But, I'm not optimistic.
14
Trump said, 'we're stronger when we're unified'. Interesting! This wasn't his slogan when he was goading his crowds to action with hate speech during the primary.
28
True and true for so much of the media; however, the NYT today wants to point the finger at Sanders because the man was one of his millions of supporters. Sanders has NEVER encouraged violence by speech or deed, but the Times could not hesitate to jump on him over someone he had no control over and likely had never met.
Shame on the NYT for that gratuitous attack on a man whose very existence seems to have them shaking in their beds. When I want a less biased source of news, I go elsewhere. The Times really isn't all that different from Fox.
Shame on the NYT for that gratuitous attack on a man whose very existence seems to have them shaking in their beds. When I want a less biased source of news, I go elsewhere. The Times really isn't all that different from Fox.
While I'm truly sorry that these men were targeted by a deranged man, I'm more outraged by the fact that 93 people die from gun violence every single day of the year and neither Congress or state legislatures are doing much to stop gun violence.
One of the 93 who died this past week was a child shot by her father when he teaching his sons how to use a gun. He failed to remove a bullet from the chamber and thought it was unloaded. This is a tragedy that could have easily been prevented.
Yet instead of insisting on more gun safety training for gun owners, many legislatures have or are looking at making gun laws looser, without permits in some states and training in others. This is folly.
No one on gun safety committees wants to take guns away from their owners in general. We want common-sense rules, like making sure that all sales have completed background checks, like making sure that all gun owners must take and pass safety lessons, like guns having improved safeties built into them.
I personally want one more. I want assault rifles banned for civilian ownership. This is a common weapon used by mass murderers, yet it serves no compelling civilian need. Simply put, no one needs one except in the armed forces and perhaps specific police response units. I believe that one life saved is worth more than all the assault rifles in the country.
Please write your legislature and your Congressional members and urge them to pass such laws.
One of the 93 who died this past week was a child shot by her father when he teaching his sons how to use a gun. He failed to remove a bullet from the chamber and thought it was unloaded. This is a tragedy that could have easily been prevented.
Yet instead of insisting on more gun safety training for gun owners, many legislatures have or are looking at making gun laws looser, without permits in some states and training in others. This is folly.
No one on gun safety committees wants to take guns away from their owners in general. We want common-sense rules, like making sure that all sales have completed background checks, like making sure that all gun owners must take and pass safety lessons, like guns having improved safeties built into them.
I personally want one more. I want assault rifles banned for civilian ownership. This is a common weapon used by mass murderers, yet it serves no compelling civilian need. Simply put, no one needs one except in the armed forces and perhaps specific police response units. I believe that one life saved is worth more than all the assault rifles in the country.
Please write your legislature and your Congressional members and urge them to pass such laws.
21
Bravo. Well stated.
1
Some members of Congress want to pass a law forcing all states to accept the legitimacy of open carry by people from states that allow it when they travel across state lines.
This must be resisted. I deliberately choose to live in an area of the country where people are not allowed to take weapons into grocery stores, restaurants, bars (not even the so-called Wild West did that), or walking down the street. This terrifies me - far, far more than allowing refugees into the country. Our most common "terrorist" is the guy next door. To quote Nancy Reagan: Just say NO.
This must be resisted. I deliberately choose to live in an area of the country where people are not allowed to take weapons into grocery stores, restaurants, bars (not even the so-called Wild West did that), or walking down the street. This terrifies me - far, far more than allowing refugees into the country. Our most common "terrorist" is the guy next door. To quote Nancy Reagan: Just say NO.
The march of folly continues (March of Folly - Barbra Tuchman). We have, once again, allowed the Trojan Horse to enter our gates.
4
I certainly don't want to see anyone harmed by gun violence. But we need to separate our prayers for Steve Scalise's recovery from any endorsement of his abominable positions on so many issues. Go to his website and you will find that the very first issue he discusses is his advocacy for gun proliferation and his A NRA rating. Read on and you'll see that he favors Republican legislation to throw millions off of their health insurance and deny American consumers the financial benefits of Dodd-Frank.
I just find it a little ironic that we are now praying for the recovery of someone who has had so little regard for the welfare of others, and, in fact, has been using his position in Congress to try to increase their misery. I hope this will be a life-changing experience for him.
I just find it a little ironic that we are now praying for the recovery of someone who has had so little regard for the welfare of others, and, in fact, has been using his position in Congress to try to increase their misery. I hope this will be a life-changing experience for him.
24
Appalled indeed by this dreadful attack on Rep. Scalise and wishing him and his family the best of luck (and medical care), but I'd love to see how he and his family would cope if he were just a regular guy playing on his company's softball team and had lost his health care thanks to the recent Republican proposal to "repeal and replace". Who'd be paying for his multiple surgeries, and would he even have received them?
And I don't suppose that even now that ONE OF THEIR OWN has been hit - not a Democrat like Gabby Giffords, not dozens of suburban 6-year-olds in a Democratic state, not members of an apolitical bible study group who unknowingly welcomed a white-supremacist stranger into their midst, not a joyous gathering of young gay and gay-friendly club-goers down in Florida - no, I don't suppose that even now the gun fanatics will do anything to bring rational gun control to this country.
It's pitiable and cowardly but no more than one would expect of this craven bunch of hypocrites. They get the best security money can buy, all at our expense, while they figure the rest of us can go pound sand and just hope there'll be somewhere to hide when the shooting starts.
And I don't suppose that even now that ONE OF THEIR OWN has been hit - not a Democrat like Gabby Giffords, not dozens of suburban 6-year-olds in a Democratic state, not members of an apolitical bible study group who unknowingly welcomed a white-supremacist stranger into their midst, not a joyous gathering of young gay and gay-friendly club-goers down in Florida - no, I don't suppose that even now the gun fanatics will do anything to bring rational gun control to this country.
It's pitiable and cowardly but no more than one would expect of this craven bunch of hypocrites. They get the best security money can buy, all at our expense, while they figure the rest of us can go pound sand and just hope there'll be somewhere to hide when the shooting starts.
1
Wrong time . Wrong place.
A man is suffering and may not live. His family may never get to enjoy his prescense again.
How can you not see that his political stances are beside the point, at this traumatic point in his life ?
Do your ranting over Mr Scalise's politics when this period of suffering has stabilized a bit. This is no time to talk politics. How would you feel if this savagery had happened to you and your loved ones ?
Thank you.
A man is suffering and may not live. His family may never get to enjoy his prescense again.
How can you not see that his political stances are beside the point, at this traumatic point in his life ?
Do your ranting over Mr Scalise's politics when this period of suffering has stabilized a bit. This is no time to talk politics. How would you feel if this savagery had happened to you and your loved ones ?
Thank you.
I agree with Ms. Collins: this shooting won't lead to gun control, and we have to keep pushing for gun control anyway. I wish the best to the victims for a speedy and full recovery.
There is no center in American politics now, and the Republicans have staked out their position somewhere to the right of Ayn Rand and just to the left of Genghis Khan. I see no reason to expect the Democrats and Republicans to come together over this or any other event, nor would I want it. Because that could only happen if the Democrats gave in, and I just can't accept that.
Trump is the inflated pustule at the tip of the Republican boil on America. He's nasty, but the infection goes deeper. Hard to say what will come out of this turmoil, but I'm pretty sure it won't be Business As Usual any more.
There is no center in American politics now, and the Republicans have staked out their position somewhere to the right of Ayn Rand and just to the left of Genghis Khan. I see no reason to expect the Democrats and Republicans to come together over this or any other event, nor would I want it. Because that could only happen if the Democrats gave in, and I just can't accept that.
Trump is the inflated pustule at the tip of the Republican boil on America. He's nasty, but the infection goes deeper. Hard to say what will come out of this turmoil, but I'm pretty sure it won't be Business As Usual any more.
12
Paul Ryan: 'An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us'. That is a snappy sound bit but what does Mr. Ryan mean by 'us'? It appears that the 'us' Mr. Ryan is referring are members of the political class - congress, senate, etc. I'd like to see Mr. Ryan express similar outrage about the 93 (not 'us') Americans killed everyday by guns ... but I'm not going to hold my breath.
20
How about we have a running annual tally of domestic gun deaths versus death by terrorism (and you could throw automobile deaths in too for perspective). It would certainly put some perspective on the ridiculous emphasis on fighting terrorism.
12
What if the gunman, before pulling the trigger would have stated to the politicians from the party of no "An attack on one American is an attack on all of us"? What does it mean when politicians say the gunmans attack was an attack on our Democracy when we have a President who is one by one dismantling every policy, procedure and process that supports our system of Democracy? What does it mean when a politician repeats over and over that the gunman represents the "evil" Americans among us and the next morning DT describes everyone involved in "the greatest whitchhunt in the history of our nation" as "evil, evil" people. The only difference between the violence visited upon our Democracy by the gunman and Politicians is the weapon of choice.
16
Perhaps the problem with our approach to gun control is that we're too focused on it as a culture war issue. Let's face it, most of us progressives just really don't like rural America. And when fringe social issues present a high profile incident, be it a case of anti-Semitism, Islamaphobia, a shooting like this, or a pizza place owner in the middle of nowhere who expresses a dislike for same sex marriage, we go into overdrive. We spot an opportunity to get on our podium, to lecture, to look down on rural Americans, and ultimately to deprive them of something.
We like seeing them lose. Just like they no doubt enjoyed seeing Clinton lose.
But the gun issue is different, because in this case people are actually getting killed and hurt. And unlike with many other issues, when you really look at who does the most damage with guns, it tends to be members of our constituency; urban minority career criminals, the mentally ill, Muslims like the Pulse shooter and San Bernardino shooters, and now the hyper politically woke.
So perhaps we should re-orient our focus, and work towards limiting Second Amendment rights just for progressives and members of our constituency. The GOP and many conservative rural Americans would probably wholeheartedly endorse this approach to gun control, we don't like guns anyway, and since it's our people who seem to have trouble exercising this right with a modicum of responsibility and restraint, it would actually have an impact. Think about it!
We like seeing them lose. Just like they no doubt enjoyed seeing Clinton lose.
But the gun issue is different, because in this case people are actually getting killed and hurt. And unlike with many other issues, when you really look at who does the most damage with guns, it tends to be members of our constituency; urban minority career criminals, the mentally ill, Muslims like the Pulse shooter and San Bernardino shooters, and now the hyper politically woke.
So perhaps we should re-orient our focus, and work towards limiting Second Amendment rights just for progressives and members of our constituency. The GOP and many conservative rural Americans would probably wholeheartedly endorse this approach to gun control, we don't like guns anyway, and since it's our people who seem to have trouble exercising this right with a modicum of responsibility and restraint, it would actually have an impact. Think about it!
2
"...But we’ll keep trying. To start, we need to come together on a consensus that there’s something wrong with a country..."
For starters you have to stop saying "This great" before every occurrence of "country".
Instead you should say "This pathetic country." from stupid wars to stupid gun access to lead poisoned water to racism and corrupt property, tax and labor law.
It is not great and hasn't been great--that is superior to all other counties--since WWII.
Trump's way to make it great again is to make all the others worse--a zero-sum game. They are too smart for that.
You can make it better by making it more like civilized countries--with gun control, health care, public education --on and on.
The first step is purging American Political/Economic Mythology--the great mass delusion.
For starters you have to stop saying "This great" before every occurrence of "country".
Instead you should say "This pathetic country." from stupid wars to stupid gun access to lead poisoned water to racism and corrupt property, tax and labor law.
It is not great and hasn't been great--that is superior to all other counties--since WWII.
Trump's way to make it great again is to make all the others worse--a zero-sum game. They are too smart for that.
You can make it better by making it more like civilized countries--with gun control, health care, public education --on and on.
The first step is purging American Political/Economic Mythology--the great mass delusion.
15
I hate to say it, Michael, but you are absolutely right. We are not great and haven't been for a long time. I'm not sure we ever can be again.
As my nom-de-blog implies, I live in Hawaii. Out here on that "island in the Pacific" we've done our part to reduce the number of guns in the US. We've sent two of the most pro-gun control Senators in the US, Brian Schatz and Mazie Hirono, to help fight the exploding number of guns in America. One of the many reasons that our islands are so attractive is that in Hawaii we have the lowest percentage of armed households in America and - not surprisingly - we have the lowest incidence of gun deaths in our nation. Who couldda guessed?
I fear that our gun culture is here to stay, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans do want some minimal gun control legislation. But our cowardly congressional representatives fear the NRA bloc vote as well as there well-organized fund raising machine and are paralyzed to do anything - anything at all - about this self inflicted terrorism.
I fear that our gun culture is here to stay, despite the fact that the vast majority of Americans do want some minimal gun control legislation. But our cowardly congressional representatives fear the NRA bloc vote as well as there well-organized fund raising machine and are paralyzed to do anything - anything at all - about this self inflicted terrorism.
17
2/3 of all US gun deaths are suicides. So we need less discussion of homicide and more discussion of suicide. And definitely we need less fixation on mass killings.
4
Are you arguing that since nearly all of the shooters in mass murder scenarios also die by either shooting themselves or being shot by the police that they are essentially akin to suicide bombers? That argument could be made. Interesting take. Thanks for that insight.
By that logic, having background checks and denying people with serious mental illness from being able to purchase a gun would both lower the rate of suicide and have the side-effect of lowering the number of mass murders. I like it! It is a win-win.
By that logic, having background checks and denying people with serious mental illness from being able to purchase a gun would both lower the rate of suicide and have the side-effect of lowering the number of mass murders. I like it! It is a win-win.
I don't agree. Mass killings (in fact any type of gun death) are on the same shelf as all the others. Right now I really don't feel like killing myself, but I am constantly worried about being shot by some disgruntled kook. So in my world the mass killing thing is pretty important.
Been said before, probably by t0 or 15 people below: We will not be getting rid of crazy angry guys any time soon. Therapy won't do it--I'd hate to be their therapist! It would be more effective to make guns harder to get--or ammo harder to get--or any of the many proposed solutions, so that even crazy angry guys would have time to cool down a coupla degrees and reconsider their plans.
8
When the violence is at your door all of a sudden it is time to play nice. Well you sir and your fellow Republicans had and have a choice in at least trying to stop the carnage. The children who were killed and are killed every day do not. For what? To protect some antiquated Amendment. Try loading and shooting a musket. I am so tired of the violence.
12
Gun Control
Ramp up the calls for strict gun control
Now that a pol is part of the toll;
Just a beefy big guy who’s come to grief
A high-powered shooter finding relief
In popping away, a holiday sound -
Hear this my gun nuts - he rests underground;
No moral here, no tale for the wise
No gun control bills, no fruitless tries.
Ramp up the calls for strict gun control
Now that a pol is part of the toll;
Just a beefy big guy who’s come to grief
A high-powered shooter finding relief
In popping away, a holiday sound -
Hear this my gun nuts - he rests underground;
No moral here, no tale for the wise
No gun control bills, no fruitless tries.
4
And to the republic, for which is stands,
One nation, under fire.
One nation, under fire.
6
At one level an idiot's argument, but guns are the easiest and most direct way to kill another person.
It really does boil down to the truth that people use guns as a tool to murder, but like every other weapon which preceded or followed the gun some people kill anything they can. Some, not all.
The real and actually only problem is with those of us who have not understood let alone accepted no one asked to be born and with minor superficial difference, are all of us are equal.
Writing letters to my Congressmen won't change the efficiency of these tools or get them out of the hands of truly disturbed people.
Violence is a result of irrationality, the coupling of unprovable belief and reality; those among us who resort to violence are divorced from reason.
I wish all direcly involved well and trust the harm while never forgotten is not overwhelming
It really does boil down to the truth that people use guns as a tool to murder, but like every other weapon which preceded or followed the gun some people kill anything they can. Some, not all.
The real and actually only problem is with those of us who have not understood let alone accepted no one asked to be born and with minor superficial difference, are all of us are equal.
Writing letters to my Congressmen won't change the efficiency of these tools or get them out of the hands of truly disturbed people.
Violence is a result of irrationality, the coupling of unprovable belief and reality; those among us who resort to violence are divorced from reason.
I wish all direcly involved well and trust the harm while never forgotten is not overwhelming
To Paul Ryan: "I don't believe what you say, because I see what you do".
13
Seriously - what's this guy doing with a semi automatic weapon? He's living out of his van, has numerous run-ins with authorities, complications with foster children and he's armed like he's ready to do battle in Afghanistan. At the same time, 4 people are gunned down in San Francisco and god knows how many more across the United States and not a peep in the media.
8
In most civilized countries access to guns is strictly limited and healthcare is considered an inalienable right. In America access to health care is strictly limited and access to guns is considered an inalienable right. America has it backwards.
20
The only way to end the warfare on America's streets is to have public financing of elections. States need to prevent privately funded candidates from appearing on ballots and enact public funding for candidates. If this were enacted in California, New York, Ohio and Florida, this would 1) end the stranglehold that the NRA has on Congress 2) allow people who are not billionaires or celebrities to make credible runs for office, 3) increase candidate diversity, and other good things. The big blue/purple states need to make this happen and compel other states to follow. Eventually, with a more representative government, we could make this federal law.
12
For the sake of humanity in our country, not to mention human compassion, let's get rid of the guns that do so much harm so quickly. There is no excuse for them except mass killing. Allow folks their hunting rifles and shotguns, permit historical firearms, let those who want to target shoot do so. None of those valid uses of guns need these terribly destructive weapons for any reason. They should not exist in a civilian population.
Here's a word no longer heard in the halls of Congress or anywhere in political discourse, but it's time for compromise. This is the hour for coming together to craft a plan that will do its best to curb the most horrid of these terrible gun crimes, and "accidents." Let us show the younger generations how government is supposed to, and still can, work.
Here's a word no longer heard in the halls of Congress or anywhere in political discourse, but it's time for compromise. This is the hour for coming together to craft a plan that will do its best to curb the most horrid of these terrible gun crimes, and "accidents." Let us show the younger generations how government is supposed to, and still can, work.
9
Gail, I think you and so many others have this collegiality thing backwards. The lack of progress in legislation is not due to there not being personal relationships. The lack of relationships is due to their not being any progress in legislation, due to the fact that the worldviews of the two parties have diverged so sharply.
The Republican party wants to shrink the size of gov't, shrink the safety net and lower taxes. They see the Democrats goal of providing universal healthcare as a populist give away designed to make people more reliant on gov't. Ditto global warming. No amount of baseball or dining is going to get these people to believe that gov't should be in the business of "distributing wealth" or imposing regulations or restrictions. They don't believe in an active federal gov't, so why would they be interested in making it more effective?
Why should these politicians compromise on policies they see as disastrous? The problem is not the lack of collegiality, it is that their views are so extreme that they would prefer to see a con man as President rather than a Democrat.
How many of these women on the baseball team stood up for Hillary Clinton? How many were willing to campaign for her?
The Republican party wants to shrink the size of gov't, shrink the safety net and lower taxes. They see the Democrats goal of providing universal healthcare as a populist give away designed to make people more reliant on gov't. Ditto global warming. No amount of baseball or dining is going to get these people to believe that gov't should be in the business of "distributing wealth" or imposing regulations or restrictions. They don't believe in an active federal gov't, so why would they be interested in making it more effective?
Why should these politicians compromise on policies they see as disastrous? The problem is not the lack of collegiality, it is that their views are so extreme that they would prefer to see a con man as President rather than a Democrat.
How many of these women on the baseball team stood up for Hillary Clinton? How many were willing to campaign for her?
10
In CA if there is a domestic violence incident the perpetrator loses his or her guns. Felons cannot own guns and in many cities limiting ammunition sales has been on the ballot and won. There are ways to prevent gun violence. It was reported that Hodgkinson had an arrest record for domestic abuse and pulled a gun on someone he disagreed with. He had to take anger management classes but was allowed to keep his weapons. Why? He should not have been able to purchase the semi-automatic weapon he used against the Congressmen yesterday. I am sure they would disagree with me on this but why? Where does the second amendment say any individual can own a gun?
14
let me express that this violent act was terrible and should not have happened. but i cannot keep from being reminded of all the other people who matter just as much and live with the under current fear of gun violence everyday. i hear this was a nice neighborhood, nice houses, lots of folks out and about, no people protesting around here and all of a sudden that world changed. a world where my 28 year old daughter has to carry a loaded .38 to walk her dog in the lower ninth ward of new orleans. always in the back of your mind you have to be aware now maybe those folks must have that snag in their mind, look around, be aware, who are those people are they cool or looking at me. his own state where there has been over 83 or so murders since jan. now he has something in common with the children who survived drive bys, the innocent and the not who have the gunshot scars. in his mind he will have an association with my daughter of look around and be cool. maybe a different thought when the nra hands out checks.
12
"Write a letter. Call your representative. Hold a meeting." Or, you could move to Canada where we have rational gun control laws and universal medicare.
20
If it were easy to move to Canada, a whole lot of us would.
6
I don't see any chance that this will change anything. House members will be upset for a week or two, then everything will go back to normal. If Republicans will not even consider any measures of gun control, even recently voting to allow people with mental illness to purchase guns, they are so far off the mark that it they will be more likely to arm themselves before next year's game then to agree to any method of gun control.
14
All lawmakers who were at the scene of this horror, which they have described as resembling a battlefield, need to be asked the following questions in its aftermath:
1. Why were you not armed? Most of those there have championed concealed carry and open carry for years as the solution to the nation's mass murder epidemic. Why did you not practice what you preach?
2. You admit you were fortunate to have a small armed presence of law enforcement professionals. Yet at least one of those officers was seriously injured as well. Are the lives of our police officers worth virtually unfettered rights to buy high-powered guns?
3. Surely you felt the terror experienced by first graders and teachers at Sandy Hook, students at Virginia Tech and Columbine, the prayer group in South Caroline, theater-goers in Aurora, people enjoying a night out in Orlando, and the list goes on. Do you believe future such carnage can be prevented? If so, how? Armed guards everywhere? We all carry, even when playing baseball?
4. To prevent others, from tiny children to adults playing baseball, from experiencing the horror you did, would you consider measures to prevent the sale of high-powered weapons or at least to strengthen regulations as to who could possess them?
1. Why were you not armed? Most of those there have championed concealed carry and open carry for years as the solution to the nation's mass murder epidemic. Why did you not practice what you preach?
2. You admit you were fortunate to have a small armed presence of law enforcement professionals. Yet at least one of those officers was seriously injured as well. Are the lives of our police officers worth virtually unfettered rights to buy high-powered guns?
3. Surely you felt the terror experienced by first graders and teachers at Sandy Hook, students at Virginia Tech and Columbine, the prayer group in South Caroline, theater-goers in Aurora, people enjoying a night out in Orlando, and the list goes on. Do you believe future such carnage can be prevented? If so, how? Armed guards everywhere? We all carry, even when playing baseball?
4. To prevent others, from tiny children to adults playing baseball, from experiencing the horror you did, would you consider measures to prevent the sale of high-powered weapons or at least to strengthen regulations as to who could possess them?
29
Forget about it DL. They're Republicans. They have been purchased by the NRA. And as with everything, health care, education, housing, they only care about something when it happens to THEM. The rest of us can go jump in the lake as far as they are concerned.
4
Gail you are right that it is a righteous cause and we need to keep fighting. But after Sandy Hook (which a conspiracy theorist who will gain wide spread attention with a nationally televised interview dismissed as a hoax) I am convinced that the gun lobby will never be challenged at the National level at least in the next 25 to 50 years. The only possibilities for change will have to come at state and local levels and most of us who live in states where such changes have no chance can do next to nothing. I unfortunately have come to believe that giving money to this cause is now better spent for other charities. It is very sad but realistic.
8
The Washington State delegation to the US House of Representatives is on record as praying for Representative Steve Scalise. Fine, but who is going to pray for millions of middle-class and poor Americans whose lives and well being have been threatened by House Republicans repeal of ACA/Obama care? All but one of the Washington State Republican Representatives voted for repeal.
Representative Paul Ryan has declared that attack on one (Republican?) Representative is an attack on all (Republican?) Representatives. Many middle-class and poor are beginning to think that Republican attack on twenty million of us is an an attack on all of us.
Representative Paul Ryan has declared that attack on one (Republican?) Representative is an attack on all (Republican?) Representatives. Many middle-class and poor are beginning to think that Republican attack on twenty million of us is an an attack on all of us.
50
You were bestowed by your Creator with an inalienable right to life, not healthcare.
1
Steve Scalise, Matt Mika, Zack Barth, Crystal Griner, David Bailey, and Roger Williams. They and their families are in my prayers.
4
We have called, written letters, emailed etc.. Every time the subject of gun control comes up it "backfires" and causes more people to race out and by more guns. And the NRA just keeps pouring money into campaigns.
I guess the hope is that Congress will do something since this will heighten their awareness that they too are vulnerable. But I doubt it.
They will probably just hire more security for themselves that taxpayers will have to pay for and leave the rest of exposed to these random acts of violence, proving that Congressional Lives Matter, but ours don't.
I guess the hope is that Congress will do something since this will heighten their awareness that they too are vulnerable. But I doubt it.
They will probably just hire more security for themselves that taxpayers will have to pay for and leave the rest of exposed to these random acts of violence, proving that Congressional Lives Matter, but ours don't.
45
On point.
We control behavior all the time. Tax credits for charitable donations. Want to cut smoking? Slap a $5 tax on every pack. Want to control gun violence? Mandate liability insurance and let actuaries price the risk. Inasmuch as we are steeped in market forces, let the market price the cost. Unsafe practices will carry very high premiums.
48
Tax bullets.
1
How can we ever think that change is possible when you have a congressman say after the shooting that he wishes he had had his gun with him, because he would have started shooting,too?
And, then there is a president who calls for unity while continuing to campaign for an office he holds with rallies where he stands smugly and smiles to chants of "Lock her up"?
And, then there is a president who calls for unity while continuing to campaign for an office he holds with rallies where he stands smugly and smiles to chants of "Lock her up"?
46
Pat, I do appreciate your comment...but want to suggest that the Congressman's sentiment about wishing he had a gun at that moment is a normal reaction of someone who has been under literal fire. So work around it: and let's get to thinking about how can America have excellent gun control and Americans will be safer...how will this happen in this country. We have to get over feeling stymied, and envision how this would actually happen and what it would be like for everyone.
8
You want to get rid of this problem? Get of the Republican Party. They ARE the problem. Vote them out in 2018 and 2020. All of them, every single one of them at every level of government, which of course they hate. So why should they run it?
It is simply amazing how much progress can be made once the dead hand of Republican liars, criminals, bigots, thieves and obstructionists is lifted, as much as possible, from government:
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/22/jerry-brown-saves-california-447559.html
It is simply amazing how much progress can be made once the dead hand of Republican liars, criminals, bigots, thieves and obstructionists is lifted, as much as possible, from government:
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/22/jerry-brown-saves-california-447559.html
Now that the straight white men are the targets, will the conversation on guns change?
Problem is that the NRA pushes the movie version in which a good guy with a gun will calmly and heroically identify the bad guy, then take him out with a clean shot.
In reality, there will be panic and mass confusion that will devolve into a circular during squad.
Problem is that the NRA pushes the movie version in which a good guy with a gun will calmly and heroically identify the bad guy, then take him out with a clean shot.
In reality, there will be panic and mass confusion that will devolve into a circular during squad.
26
Just stop with the "better presidential moments." He read a script written by someone else and didn't lie, didn't blame someone else for his failings, didn't threaten someone, didn't promote a hotel, didn't trumpet imaginary successes, didn't use the word "sad." What thinking person even begins to evaluate this as some holy moment? Just please stop! One rational statement does not make a sociopath worth of respect.
54
Word. Knock it off.
Not too long ago Virgina enacted a law allowing a person to only purchase one gun a month. Then the lawmakers cancelled it.
Heaven knows we all need to buy as many guns as possible to keep the sellers and gunmakers profitable. We need to provide guns to other states that have somewhat sensible laws.
SHAME on all the lawmakers who value profit over lives and common sense.
Heaven knows we all need to buy as many guns as possible to keep the sellers and gunmakers profitable. We need to provide guns to other states that have somewhat sensible laws.
SHAME on all the lawmakers who value profit over lives and common sense.
33
The 93 people killed hides the fact on the number of total people who are shot.
There's something around 300 people shot a day in the United States.
How much of our always rising health care costs are directly attributable to these shootings?
Why is it that there's never any coverage on the costs guns have on our health care system? It seems as if there's a story not covered?
Is there no correlation? Could my assumption be wrong?
Even if there's no correlation, what does it say about our national character that we allow this?
There's something around 300 people shot a day in the United States.
How much of our always rising health care costs are directly attributable to these shootings?
Why is it that there's never any coverage on the costs guns have on our health care system? It seems as if there's a story not covered?
Is there no correlation? Could my assumption be wrong?
Even if there's no correlation, what does it say about our national character that we allow this?
28
A simple answer to your question is that several years ago the NRA backed, and the Congress passed, legislation that forbids government money being used to do research on the health effects of gun violence.
19
Yep. The CDC would love to do a properly constructed study so we'd have actual data to talk about, but hey.
5
So, why isn't Bill Gates or Zuckerman funding it? They have the money. The data would be staggeringly revealing.
1
"Even if your hopes aren’t high, keep fighting. This is a righteous cause." To this I'd add: So as to not fall into despair and complete cynicism; it's absolutely necessary to have very modest hopes and even higher patience.
8
Never gonna happen. Never. Not as long as Republicans are in power. Never gonna happen. Never.
18
Please stop envisioning the negative. Let's all envision American with strict gun controls.
1
The Republican controlled congress passed a law that allows mentally ill people to legally purchase guns. It is not hard to surmise the tragedy that occurred in Alexandria, Virginia, was caused by a mentally ill individual.
Talk about voting against your own interests and the interests of all Americans. Here is a prime case.
Talk about voting against your own interests and the interests of all Americans. Here is a prime case.
30
Sadly, I am still angry. While I am unfailingly polite to those I disagree with and am disturbed by the attempted assassination of Republican members of Congress, I woke this morning to business as usual with Trump tweets. Clearly Melania has no influence. I am disturbed that some members who were shot at, now want to arm themselves. I don't get the logic? Do they carry while out on the baseball field? How do cops tell the good guys from the bad guys with so many guns drawn? People point to the game as bipartisan, yet it isn't like the All Star game where everyone is mixed up. They aren't playing together. Our Congressmen do not seem to spend much time socializing. They are in a rush to get home to their district. Don't know why. My Republican Congressman stays safely behind closed doors, ALWAYS voting the party line. Frankly, if he didn't run for office every two years, I wouldn't know he existed. I am still angry. With few exceptions, it is business as usual. Sad.
22
So a mere 31 killings a day are acceptable in your estimation? That's only 11,300 or so annually. I wonder how many people were killed by all the terrorists and criminals in the EU, UK, Scandinavia and Switzerland last year? Probably a lot less than 10,000.
15
Often, Republicans, especially the politicians, have no empathy until something happens to them personally. And that's not empathy, just self-pity. When they are shot at, stop the presses! It's the worst thing in the world, a violation of the natural order.
19
The one indisputable fact common to every shooting death is the presence of a firearm. Until we deal with that, and acknowledge that gun-nut yelps of mental illness, domestic abusers, felons, etc. are only distractions, common sense will continue to be bloodied by bullets.
15
Ah yes – the always evil NRA. I do wonder if there is any chance that the New York Times will ever run a piece telling a very simple truth about the NRA and its members. That simple truth is that if America is ever fortunate enough to have the crime rate (which is effectively no crime rate) of the five million plus members of the NRA there wouldn’t be any need for jails or prisons. There wouldn’t even be need for a police force. The facts and the truth -- but please don’t hold your breath waiting for the New York Times to report this.
1
Dear usmcnam1968: If indeed it's true that "effectively" no member of the NRA is a criminal (l don't know how you document that assertion), even so, the NRA is instrumental in arming criminals. It should restrict itself to defending the Second Amendment, that is, defending the Constitutional right of state militias to keep arms in armories for the use of their members in the defense of states' security. The NRA can also fight local and national laws restricting gun possession, but not on the grounds of those laws' imagined "unconstitutionality."
2
The bipartisanship with house members might stay strong for a bit.
But Mr. Trump--not so much:
Since praying for Steve Scalise, here's what Trump followed up with today:
--Tweet #2----Jun 15, 2017 06:57:57 AM - You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people! #MAGA
--Tweet #1---Jun 15, 2017 05:55:37 AM - They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice
Trump's quickly back to insulting FBI professionals, the accomplished Bob Mueller---who unlike Trump, with 5 deferments--- Mueller served his country in Vietnam in the Marine Corps, having attended officer training, Army Ranger, Army Jump School, led Marine rifle platoon during the war, assisted commanding general. Awarded Purple Heart, Cross of Gallantry, Commendation Medals, Bronze Star.
Big league awards for bravery and honor.
Has law degree. on the Virginia Law Review at the School of Law. Has advanced degree in international relations.
Served in attorney general offices, as assistant attorney general in Massachusetts, investigated/ prosecuted terrorism, international money laundering, financial fraud, public corruption cases, and others. Served as assistant to U.S. Attorney General Thornburg, took charge of criminal divisions. He sat where Jeff Sessions sits.
Mueller's resume is so long it can't be listed here.
But Mr. Trump--not so much:
Since praying for Steve Scalise, here's what Trump followed up with today:
--Tweet #2----Jun 15, 2017 06:57:57 AM - You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people! #MAGA
--Tweet #1---Jun 15, 2017 05:55:37 AM - They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice
Trump's quickly back to insulting FBI professionals, the accomplished Bob Mueller---who unlike Trump, with 5 deferments--- Mueller served his country in Vietnam in the Marine Corps, having attended officer training, Army Ranger, Army Jump School, led Marine rifle platoon during the war, assisted commanding general. Awarded Purple Heart, Cross of Gallantry, Commendation Medals, Bronze Star.
Big league awards for bravery and honor.
Has law degree. on the Virginia Law Review at the School of Law. Has advanced degree in international relations.
Served in attorney general offices, as assistant attorney general in Massachusetts, investigated/ prosecuted terrorism, international money laundering, financial fraud, public corruption cases, and others. Served as assistant to U.S. Attorney General Thornburg, took charge of criminal divisions. He sat where Jeff Sessions sits.
Mueller's resume is so long it can't be listed here.
25
"Mueller's resume is so long it can't be listed here."
Trump's resume is longer: over 2500 lawsuits, 6 bankruptcies, and on and on and on.
Trump's resume is longer: over 2500 lawsuits, 6 bankruptcies, and on and on and on.
17
Well done. That resume even includes a fake university.
No wonder Mr.T speaks so poorly and can barely read fluently.
Interesting that Mueller has a graduate degree in international relations, which is the field that Trumpster does worst in.
Embarrassing on the world stage.
No wonder Mr.T speaks so poorly and can barely read fluently.
Interesting that Mueller has a graduate degree in international relations, which is the field that Trumpster does worst in.
Embarrassing on the world stage.
Do not post this.
I received a notice that a letter of mine was posted, but it does not show anywhere when I click the link. This has happened a few times before and I do not treasure my posts enough to think that they are of any great importance, but I still would like this error corrected if possible.
The role of the moderator I imagine is a hard thankless one so I appreciate your efforts to keep us in line. Thanks again.
I received a notice that a letter of mine was posted, but it does not show anywhere when I click the link. This has happened a few times before and I do not treasure my posts enough to think that they are of any great importance, but I still would like this error corrected if possible.
The role of the moderator I imagine is a hard thankless one so I appreciate your efforts to keep us in line. Thanks again.
3
You are not alone, my friend. Hopefully it gets rectified, as this has been an intermittent issue for a few weeks, at least.
1
Congress is now debating a removal of the ban on silencers on guns. If this gunman had had one, the other players on the field may have thought that Scalice was having a heart attack and all run over to help him. This would have made it so much easier for the gunman to have wounded a lot more Congressmen.
15
Good points...but why aren't we talking about gender! Why overwhelmingly male gun [and other violence]? And...it isn't biology.....it's a culture of violent-tough guys masculinity. Take a look at the sports pages and team names.....or the boys section in a toy store..for starters!
8
Maybe we could ban testosterone and requiure parthenogenesis.
Sandy Hook seems to get mentioned after every single mass shooting incident. What did Alex Jones say? Were the fake victims at the fake news GOP baseball practice hired actors? Just based on the vile comments he's made concerning Sandy Hook, if an emotionally upset parent of one of the victims put a bullet in his head I'd shrug and say justice was truly served, albeit in a vigilante way.
Politically incorrect, but all I can say is if a politican had to get shot at a baseball practice for an eventual game of Democrats versus Republicans, it's fitting that it was a GOP representative. Curious how there's been no mention on how Scalise votes on bills pertaining to gun control, but we know the Rs are beholden to the NRA. The real tragedy would have been bullets striking politicians hollering for rational gun control laws.
“We do not shed our humanity when we enter this chamber,” Mr. Ryan said, his voice seeming to nearly break at times. Put a lie detector on the ever smiling fibber. He and too many fellow Republicans in Congress absolutely shed their humanity when inside and outside of "this chamber." You can see it in their words, their votes, their loyalty to party over country and Trump/Russia over the not very well "United" States of America.
The NRA's latest proposed legislation for "well regulated militias?" Legalizing silencers, armor piercing bullets, and allowing folks with psychiatric conditions to purchase guns.
Politically incorrect, but all I can say is if a politican had to get shot at a baseball practice for an eventual game of Democrats versus Republicans, it's fitting that it was a GOP representative. Curious how there's been no mention on how Scalise votes on bills pertaining to gun control, but we know the Rs are beholden to the NRA. The real tragedy would have been bullets striking politicians hollering for rational gun control laws.
“We do not shed our humanity when we enter this chamber,” Mr. Ryan said, his voice seeming to nearly break at times. Put a lie detector on the ever smiling fibber. He and too many fellow Republicans in Congress absolutely shed their humanity when inside and outside of "this chamber." You can see it in their words, their votes, their loyalty to party over country and Trump/Russia over the not very well "United" States of America.
The NRA's latest proposed legislation for "well regulated militias?" Legalizing silencers, armor piercing bullets, and allowing folks with psychiatric conditions to purchase guns.
19
What galls me almost more than anything is the willingness of some to give trump a gold star for suppressing a dangerous mental illness for a 15 second
sound bite.......
How easy it has been to fall to 2nd / or 3rd place in the world....So much
for American Exceptionalism............the ancient Greeks would call that
"a Tragic Flaw" born out of Hubris.
sound bite.......
How easy it has been to fall to 2nd / or 3rd place in the world....So much
for American Exceptionalism............the ancient Greeks would call that
"a Tragic Flaw" born out of Hubris.
12
Comments here say we need some type of a “debt clock” that details gun deaths in America.
We already have it.
https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/
Everytown was set up after Newtown. I was getting an alert on my phone every time we had multiple injuries/deaths here in the USA--Think “Amber Alerts” on your phone or television. But it became so “intrusive” that I had to dismantle the app.
Where do you think Gail Collins got her stat of 93 people killed by guns every day? Everytown. There are two injured for every person killed--not a “graze” where the hero of a TV show is fitted with an arm sling by an EMT and goes back to work. No I’m talking about a bullet that shreds the spinal cord leaving a teenager paralyzed from the neck down a la Christopher Reeve--or a bullet that leaves a person with devastating permanent brain damage.
The weapons that private citizens use in America are the SAME or more powerful as the weapons of modern war. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass killings and here in Georgia you don’t even need a gun permit to buy one! Any pawn shop or gun show you can buy such a weapon of death and destruction. No problem!
We occasionally see the horrifically injured military vets at VA hospitals or on some “do-good” show where they are given a new home. A home that can be navigated by an electric wheelchair. The 180 this horribly injured every day in America don’t have such homes or given such PR.
WE DO NOTHING to stop this!
We already have it.
https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/
Everytown was set up after Newtown. I was getting an alert on my phone every time we had multiple injuries/deaths here in the USA--Think “Amber Alerts” on your phone or television. But it became so “intrusive” that I had to dismantle the app.
Where do you think Gail Collins got her stat of 93 people killed by guns every day? Everytown. There are two injured for every person killed--not a “graze” where the hero of a TV show is fitted with an arm sling by an EMT and goes back to work. No I’m talking about a bullet that shreds the spinal cord leaving a teenager paralyzed from the neck down a la Christopher Reeve--or a bullet that leaves a person with devastating permanent brain damage.
The weapons that private citizens use in America are the SAME or more powerful as the weapons of modern war. The AR-15 is the weapon of choice for mass killings and here in Georgia you don’t even need a gun permit to buy one! Any pawn shop or gun show you can buy such a weapon of death and destruction. No problem!
We occasionally see the horrifically injured military vets at VA hospitals or on some “do-good” show where they are given a new home. A home that can be navigated by an electric wheelchair. The 180 this horribly injured every day in America don’t have such homes or given such PR.
WE DO NOTHING to stop this!
17
When Republicans collectively repudiate, loudly and persistently, inflammatory jerks like Alex Jones, I will "come together with them" and feel some sympathy. Not until.
14
Ironically, a congressional hearing was scheduled yesterday for the "Hearing Protection Act", NRA sponsored legislation to remove restrictions on purchasing noise suppressors or silencers for weapons. This is meant to protect hearing of shooters, especially when firing automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Now, shooters can wear ear phones to protect their hearing. Congress cancelled hearing on the bill.
At yesterday's shooting, victims/target of the shooting were able to 'hear' the shots, orient themselves to the direction of the shooter and run for cover. Witnesses 'heard' shoots and were able to determine that an active shooting was in progress so they called 911. Law enforcement officers were able to 'hear' the shots to quickly locate and stop the shooter. If the Hearing Protection Act is passed, this life-saving "hearing" information will be mostly unavailable to victims, witnesses and first responders - while a shooter can use a noise suppressor to be freed from wearing ear protectors.
Now that Congress is in a bipartisan mood to do public service, please encourage members to do the 'greatest good for the greatest number.' Even though the Hearing Protection Act was pulled yesterday, it should be permanently abandoned. As Ms. Collins advises, please keep track of your representatives, the legislation they vote for, and write to them often. Thank you.
At yesterday's shooting, victims/target of the shooting were able to 'hear' the shots, orient themselves to the direction of the shooter and run for cover. Witnesses 'heard' shoots and were able to determine that an active shooting was in progress so they called 911. Law enforcement officers were able to 'hear' the shots to quickly locate and stop the shooter. If the Hearing Protection Act is passed, this life-saving "hearing" information will be mostly unavailable to victims, witnesses and first responders - while a shooter can use a noise suppressor to be freed from wearing ear protectors.
Now that Congress is in a bipartisan mood to do public service, please encourage members to do the 'greatest good for the greatest number.' Even though the Hearing Protection Act was pulled yesterday, it should be permanently abandoned. As Ms. Collins advises, please keep track of your representatives, the legislation they vote for, and write to them often. Thank you.
12
This is one of those rare teaching moments.
If anything is going to influence congress to act after the little ball-field incident (not the most serious shooting in the US yesterday), we should save money in the federal budget by withdrawing security from congress and insisting that they stop infringing on citizens' Second Amendment rights and allow weapons in the halls of congress.
If anything is going to influence congress to act after the little ball-field incident (not the most serious shooting in the US yesterday), we should save money in the federal budget by withdrawing security from congress and insisting that they stop infringing on citizens' Second Amendment rights and allow weapons in the halls of congress.
9
I live not far from Newtown, Connecticut.
Sad to say, I have given up on the idea that there will ever be meaningful gun control in this country or that we will ever get back the hundreds of millions of guns out there in private hands. That's over, folks. Ain't gonna happen. Drop it already, Dems, or we will keep losing elections.
Now I mostly worry about which part of our society is armed and which part is not.
It's time for liberals and progressives to get out to the gun range for some training and stock up on arms and ammo. Who wants to live in the OK Corral armed only with wishful thinking about the goodness of humanity?
Of course, there's always moving to Sweden. But it's not clear to me that Sweden wants us.
Sad to say, I have given up on the idea that there will ever be meaningful gun control in this country or that we will ever get back the hundreds of millions of guns out there in private hands. That's over, folks. Ain't gonna happen. Drop it already, Dems, or we will keep losing elections.
Now I mostly worry about which part of our society is armed and which part is not.
It's time for liberals and progressives to get out to the gun range for some training and stock up on arms and ammo. Who wants to live in the OK Corral armed only with wishful thinking about the goodness of humanity?
Of course, there's always moving to Sweden. But it's not clear to me that Sweden wants us.
5
And the 30 odd years of skyrocketing gun purchases that's already taken place has made things better, so you want to keep adding to this?
This is a good post, and not just a call to arm yourself, but I think a trend of what is happening. I only can say this from my experience here in SW Michigan, but do see a lot more women, especially single, and middle, older age packing heat in their purse. Whether they are prepared, able, and willing to use it is another story. But they are legally taking defensive measures.
The OK Corral is so 19th Century. It's way overdue to shut it down.
The lesson from this particular incidence is that gun violence in our country remains at intolerable levels - nothing more, nothing less. If the People's Representatives have been reminded with a jolt the dangers that the people face
daily, it is really for them to absorb this experience and do something about it. I do hope that Congressman Scalise and the others injured in this incidence make speedy recoveries.
daily, it is really for them to absorb this experience and do something about it. I do hope that Congressman Scalise and the others injured in this incidence make speedy recoveries.
8
President "Second Amendment Solutions" just saw one. Can we expect an apology and retraction?
13
There is definitiely "something wrong with a country in which an average of 93 people are killed with guns every day...." It unconscionable and beyond sad. However, if Democrats want to get elected in this country they need to drop the gun issue. It's absolutely outrageous but the minute a candidate mentions guns she/he will be dismissed from consideration by a large portion of the voters. If Dems push gun control the party of the orange idiot will continue to win. We're doomed either way.
6
Following that logic, we may as well each one of us all get guns and kill ourselves now. Problem solved. Right?
3
"Following that logic, we may as well each one of us all get guns and kill ourselves now."
Oh, and don't forget the Derringers for all children over 4.
Oh, and don't forget the Derringers for all children over 4.
1
Here are my thoughts on the 2nd Amendment: Every American, man, woman or child, should be allowed to own as many guns as they want, without registration or licensing, as long as all these guns are muzzle-loading flintlocks. This would satisfy the right-to-bear-arms clause as the founding fathers knew the world to be at their time.
Now, if you wanted a more modern weapon, you could have it as long as it was registered, licensed, and insured. This would, of course, require a rigorous background check, thus pretty much ensuring that advanced weapons would be in the hands of solid citizens and not every jackanape who needed a penis substitute. This would satisfy the well-regulated-militia clause of the amendment.
Now, if you wanted a more modern weapon, you could have it as long as it was registered, licensed, and insured. This would, of course, require a rigorous background check, thus pretty much ensuring that advanced weapons would be in the hands of solid citizens and not every jackanape who needed a penis substitute. This would satisfy the well-regulated-militia clause of the amendment.
1
The present day G.O.P. a/k/a Guns Over People. Like many Americans, after the massacre of the innocents, and their adult caretakers, at Newtown and naked Senatorial cowardice in failing to enact even basic, incremental gun control measures, it is a hard fact of life in this country that until and unless the Republican Party ceases to exist in its present iteration, nothing will be done in this sphere.
Bought and paid for by the N.R.A. and, like its failure to have any principled backbone in not standing up to Trumpian outrages, this is a group of opportunists in total obeisance to its fringe puppeteers. If any change will come, it will only, only emerge through the ballot box. With every new gun-related horror, and the inevitable outpouring of meaningless platitudes, we remain a nation tragically treading water. This is the true face of our outlier "exceptionalism" amongst developed countries. We are literally and figuratively in a death spiral of our own invention.
Bought and paid for by the N.R.A. and, like its failure to have any principled backbone in not standing up to Trumpian outrages, this is a group of opportunists in total obeisance to its fringe puppeteers. If any change will come, it will only, only emerge through the ballot box. With every new gun-related horror, and the inevitable outpouring of meaningless platitudes, we remain a nation tragically treading water. This is the true face of our outlier "exceptionalism" amongst developed countries. We are literally and figuratively in a death spiral of our own invention.
10
Yes, thanks very much for bringing up guns; now could you do a piece on tying guns to mental illness, which brings up Sandy Hook for starters. Would you check and find out if Ryan did a big boo hoo over Sandy Hook and if the Republicans rose up in mass to do anything? Because they were in control of Congress, right? What I saw yesterday was every Congress person who spoke was really making it mostly all about them, how sad they were, how great they were, what great Americans they were, the victims were, the almost victims were, and so on. Never have I seen the media scrap everything for hours straight while they moaned and groaned about how great they all were. And never will we. I sat there thinking about all the people who were constantly being shot and maimed daily and the world just moves on with nothing covered but how entertaining or astonishing or unprecedented the latest Trump tweet is. How great we are? Hardly.
20
The R's also spoke about how "frightened" they were. How chaotic it was. But, never did they give a thought after the Sandy Hook massacre of how terribly, terribly frightened all those little first graders must have been when they died. And of how frightened the little ones who survived must have been on that day and how they who survived go through their lives, now, with nary a day without some sense of fear and apprehension that it might happen again. No, disastrously, Republicans have never and will never give a thought to controlling who gets guns and the kind of guns and ammo people can get. The once great nation of the USA is diminished daily by its glorification of weapons and violence.
1
NRA-pocketdweller advocates for unrestricted access to firearms are confronted with sequelae of unrestricted access to firearms. Oh dreadful dreadful.
And also: Goody.
And also: Goody.
Remember, Republicans uphold the inaliable right of any citizen to be shot by anyone who likes to have a gun.
23
Perfect David!
2
Nobody was playing "Take Me Out AT the Ballgame". Now I can't unhear that song. And neither will you.
3
The song I'm hearing is "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" by The Beatles.
1
There are more guns in circulation in this country than there are people. That's a swamp I'd like to drain empty.
19
We all should know by now, Gail, what will be the result of this latest gunslinger episode.
The heroes, the avengers, the saviors, the tough and all the rest of the nincompoops out there will be stocking right up on their weaponry. So the very next time anyone tries anything anywhere near them, they'll be right there and able to save us all.
Just wait. Armed America will take care of the problem of too many guns in the wrong hands.
The heroes, the avengers, the saviors, the tough and all the rest of the nincompoops out there will be stocking right up on their weaponry. So the very next time anyone tries anything anywhere near them, they'll be right there and able to save us all.
Just wait. Armed America will take care of the problem of too many guns in the wrong hands.
Yesterday was a very disturbing day. Has everyone forgotten when Trump, on the campaign trail suggested that if Hillary Clinton tried to implement gun control of any type that "maybe" the Second Amendment" voters could do something about it? Ivanka, did you hear that?
Now Trump supporters doubt that Trump may have said to Comey "I hope you will consider letting Flynn go. He's a good guy." And exactly what he meant.
But yesterday for 2 minutes he read prepared notes that were written for him and we are so impressed with his ability to sound presidential.
I am so very sorry for what happened to Senator Scalice. No one deserves that. No one should be shot while practicing for a baseball game, or attending Kindergarten, or shopping for new clothes, or dancing at a nightclub. No one!
RAJA Rochester
Now Trump supporters doubt that Trump may have said to Comey "I hope you will consider letting Flynn go. He's a good guy." And exactly what he meant.
But yesterday for 2 minutes he read prepared notes that were written for him and we are so impressed with his ability to sound presidential.
I am so very sorry for what happened to Senator Scalice. No one deserves that. No one should be shot while practicing for a baseball game, or attending Kindergarten, or shopping for new clothes, or dancing at a nightclub. No one!
RAJA Rochester
Donald, Jr. and the NRA are BIG proponents of getting rid of the restrictions on silencers for guns. Don Jr's position is that it's a health issue. If guns could have silencers, that would protect the shooters' hearing.
The restrictions have been in place since the 30's with the reasoning that if you can't hear the shot, how do you know a crime's been committed?
There was supposed to be a hearing on this yesterday.
Now - where would those people be today if the shooter had a silencer?
The restrictions have been in place since the 30's with the reasoning that if you can't hear the shot, how do you know a crime's been committed?
There was supposed to be a hearing on this yesterday.
Now - where would those people be today if the shooter had a silencer?
The hope that this event will catalyze even the simplest gun reforms ignores how "religious" the issue has become. Friends of mine who are acolytes of this religion (NRAism?) might be rational on all other subjects, but mess with their religion - like suggesting we close the gun show loopholes -POW, they act like someone spat on their most precious religious icon. It's one of several weird national neuroses.
11
Gail got one thing right: we have to keep crazy people from accessing guns. They can still kill people with vehicles, rocks, hammers, and especially knives, but those deaths are much more politically acceptable.
How long did Gail make it before attack the American President again? 17 lines, which is probably a record.
Gail reminds me of the week-but-not-two-weeks after the 9/11 attack when her hero Nancy Pelosi couldn't keep her hatred for Pres. Bush bottled up and had to attack Bush over something. But how did Pelosi find a microphone faster than Chuck Schumer?
The federal gun-buyer-check system works best when crazy people are listed on it. We have to make sure doctors' and psychologists' findings make it onto that list as fast as possible. We can rest assured, however, that Gail sill has dozens of reasons to hate the man who defeated her favorite Clinton of all time.
How long did Gail make it before attack the American President again? 17 lines, which is probably a record.
Gail reminds me of the week-but-not-two-weeks after the 9/11 attack when her hero Nancy Pelosi couldn't keep her hatred for Pres. Bush bottled up and had to attack Bush over something. But how did Pelosi find a microphone faster than Chuck Schumer?
The federal gun-buyer-check system works best when crazy people are listed on it. We have to make sure doctors' and psychologists' findings make it onto that list as fast as possible. We can rest assured, however, that Gail sill has dozens of reasons to hate the man who defeated her favorite Clinton of all time.
1
The Sandyhook massacre with rocks? 49 dead in Orlando from the hand of one guy with a knife?
Please give us all a break.
Please give us all a break.
6
Gee, I guess you missed the news that the Republicans reversed Obama on gun control and made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns. Guess you missed that. It wasn't on Fox News.
11
Oh, we all have dozens of reasons to hate 'the man who defeated [Gail's] favorite Clinton of all time,' La Osservatore. Donald J. Trump is a lifelong con man who knows zilch about history, philosophy, literature, and civility — and even less about governmental policy (be it domestic or foreign). He also has no wish to LEARN anything now that he occupies the most important office in the world. History will treat his short-lived presidency as an aberration wrought by a voting population whittled into ignorance by Fox News, right-wing hate radio, and conspiracy-theory websites that have spun out of control.
But Gail, money is involved and you never get in the way of someone making money, it's unAmerican, why, the very idea. It's obscene to prevent someone from making a buck. Guns, to quote Martha Stewart, "It's a good thing."
Old habits die hard.
We don't need guns any more to "discipline" slaves.
We don't need guns any more to grab land from the natives.
We don't need guns any more to "discipline" slaves.
We don't need guns any more to grab land from the natives.
9
At 6:30am EDT, Trump has yet to say/tweet anything inflammatory. Anyone for an over/under wager? I'll take 10am.
1
Something truly horrible will have to happen to change the mind of the nation on guns. You would think that after Sandy Hook or any of the other massacres that we would have already changed our minds. But the Heller decision and the constant drum beat for weapons and their manufactures will not easily or quickly be changed.
And of course the rest of the world thinking Americans insane over this issue will matter not at all.
And worst of all most of the gun nuts want weapons because they are seditious and hate the U.S.
And of course the rest of the world thinking Americans insane over this issue will matter not at all.
And worst of all most of the gun nuts want weapons because they are seditious and hate the U.S.
5
Nice essay Gail, but you shouldn't have bothered. Guns and gun ownership has risen ( or maybe sunken) to the level of dogmatic and mind numbing religion to so many. And one of the more useless and frustrating endeavors in life is to try and change anyone's mind about a blind faith religion by the simple injection of logic and reason.
So, after the obligatory Washington soul searching and head shaking for the media sound byte, we already are hearing the democrats saying "more gun control" and republicans saying "looser gun rules."
And so it goes!!
So, after the obligatory Washington soul searching and head shaking for the media sound byte, we already are hearing the democrats saying "more gun control" and republicans saying "looser gun rules."
And so it goes!!
Dear Ms. Collins,
I am from Connecticut and I can remember the day of the Sandy Hook shootings as I saw grown men, truck drivers, crying.
"Kids, for Christ's sake" is all a sobbing, former Marine who served in Vietnam could keep saying.
Yet, I'm afraid, just like after that massacre, gun sales will go up, Alex Jones will blab about the "Sandy Hook" conspiracy and a so-called "reporter" will push for yet more publicity, money and fame by interviewing this jerk on NBC.
Ms. Giffords was shot in 2011 and the only thing that has happened since then is having a ship named after her in the Navy.
And as for meaningful firearms legislation coming from the "bought and paid for by the NRA" Congress, do not hold your breath.
Instead, we'll all probably be paying more for "security" for these folks while they pass legislation allowing "noise suppressors" (silencers) to become available to anyone and allowing those with mental problems to not have their 2nd Amendment rights violated and let them purchase weapons.
The real tragedy is that there will be more gun carnage while the backers of the NRA reap the profits from firearms and ammunition sales.
Lest anyone think me a "bleeding heart", I have a conceal carry permit and I believe the 2nd Amendment, like the bible, has been twisted into something monstrous and self serving.
Sorry, no laughs today.
I am from Connecticut and I can remember the day of the Sandy Hook shootings as I saw grown men, truck drivers, crying.
"Kids, for Christ's sake" is all a sobbing, former Marine who served in Vietnam could keep saying.
Yet, I'm afraid, just like after that massacre, gun sales will go up, Alex Jones will blab about the "Sandy Hook" conspiracy and a so-called "reporter" will push for yet more publicity, money and fame by interviewing this jerk on NBC.
Ms. Giffords was shot in 2011 and the only thing that has happened since then is having a ship named after her in the Navy.
And as for meaningful firearms legislation coming from the "bought and paid for by the NRA" Congress, do not hold your breath.
Instead, we'll all probably be paying more for "security" for these folks while they pass legislation allowing "noise suppressors" (silencers) to become available to anyone and allowing those with mental problems to not have their 2nd Amendment rights violated and let them purchase weapons.
The real tragedy is that there will be more gun carnage while the backers of the NRA reap the profits from firearms and ammunition sales.
Lest anyone think me a "bleeding heart", I have a conceal carry permit and I believe the 2nd Amendment, like the bible, has been twisted into something monstrous and self serving.
Sorry, no laughs today.
19
Predictably, Republicans/NRA are now calling for a loosening of gun restrictions. Imagine all the possible new firearm accessories for gun-toting baseball players! No doubt, these will soon be available on Amazon after the WH tech summit that Bezos will supposably attend. Should finally make MLB entertaining again. 7th inning stretch to 7th inning shootout.
7
Imagine when a batter decides not to charge the mound after a "brush-back" pitch but just pulls out a gun and shoots the pitcher. Coming soon to a ballpark near you. No more empty seats. It's why people go to NASCAR races, to see the crashes. What a sick country.
"Should finally make MLB entertaining again. 7th inning stretch to 7th inning shootout."
No more "walk-off" game ending hits. They won't make it to home plate alive.
No more "walk-off" game ending hits. They won't make it to home plate alive.
This might sound cold for some of you.
What caused the shooting of congressmen yesterday was congress. These supposedly representatives of the people have created a world of hurt for the general population. "They" are responsible for driving the population to a state of frustration that makes life dangeres for all of it's citizens. And when it come home to roost, and effects their "Stepford Lives" they never even consider their own contribution to the problem.
So congress and it's pundents, stop blaming everyone other than yourselves, Stop demonizing Republicans, Democrats, guns, rich people, poor people, corporations, immigrants, and someone else's race for the state of this country. An start solving problems through compromise. That is what you are suppose to do.
What caused the shooting of congressmen yesterday was congress. These supposedly representatives of the people have created a world of hurt for the general population. "They" are responsible for driving the population to a state of frustration that makes life dangeres for all of it's citizens. And when it come home to roost, and effects their "Stepford Lives" they never even consider their own contribution to the problem.
So congress and it's pundents, stop blaming everyone other than yourselves, Stop demonizing Republicans, Democrats, guns, rich people, poor people, corporations, immigrants, and someone else's race for the state of this country. An start solving problems through compromise. That is what you are suppose to do.
12
This is a very dangerous line of thought.
1
Coco:
I don't see Georgez's argument as much removed from the "Do Your Job" argument that has been directed at lawmakers for years. I feel the collective frustration is a legitimate sentiment worthy of public expression under the first amendment. The primary difference here is that the statement is now contextualized by violence. That's probably not the best way to express any feeling but sympathy and regret. However, let's not confuse speech with violence.
I don't see Georgez's argument as much removed from the "Do Your Job" argument that has been directed at lawmakers for years. I feel the collective frustration is a legitimate sentiment worthy of public expression under the first amendment. The primary difference here is that the statement is now contextualized by violence. That's probably not the best way to express any feeling but sympathy and regret. However, let's not confuse speech with violence.
1
I make two comments here.
1) Irrespective of how gun control laws are, a determined individual will not be deterred. In short, crooks will get guns any way that they can.
2) Capitol Police Officers Bailey and Griner likely averted a massacre. The ability to fire back is embedded in the Second Amendment. Increased gun control would make the outcome observed yesterday much less probable.
1) Irrespective of how gun control laws are, a determined individual will not be deterred. In short, crooks will get guns any way that they can.
2) Capitol Police Officers Bailey and Griner likely averted a massacre. The ability to fire back is embedded in the Second Amendment. Increased gun control would make the outcome observed yesterday much less probable.
1
The Second Amendment has nothing whatsoever to do with allowing citizens to brandish assalt rifles at baseball fields. It's about well-regulated militias in a time of muskets and bayonets.
It's interesting that Supreme Court justices otherwise obsessed with "original intent" and "strict construction" of the "plain meaning of the language of the Constitution" managed to distort the plain language of this amendment to comport with the agenda of the NRA and the gun manufacturers that support it.
It's interesting that Supreme Court justices otherwise obsessed with "original intent" and "strict construction" of the "plain meaning of the language of the Constitution" managed to distort the plain language of this amendment to comport with the agenda of the NRA and the gun manufacturers that support it.
15
Your second point does not fly. The police officers that answered the call to this tragedy were armed, and they will always be armed. They are the ones who put their lives on the line every day here in our country.
What is the answer to preventing these horrors? Coming together and finding the way to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. Yes! Coming together and find a solution. As to do nothing will allow these horrible tragedies to continue.
What is the answer to preventing these horrors? Coming together and finding the way to keep guns out of the hands of those who should not have them. Yes! Coming together and find a solution. As to do nothing will allow these horrible tragedies to continue.
Are you serious? Increased gun control will make the outcome observed yesterday MUCH LESS POSSIBLE. The absolute last thing we need in this country is MORE GUNS.
4
It is the GOP and men who are largely the ones supporting arming everybody, down to the toddlers. GOP and men dominate Congress. We can write and call and march and hold meetings, which we will, and we should, but I have little hope for change. These male right-wingers have given up any connection to conscience. (Alex Jones, Sandy Hook denier, is a good friend of Trump, is he not? Or at least in the group of Bannon/Trump/Stone/et al.) These people are not good people when off duty. You can't spin and legislate for violence and the causes of violence, and then go home at night and pretend you've helped society. The baseball game is a vestige of a world destroyed over these last forty years by increasing authoritarian right. Perhaps we should just give up and let these people build their internment camps, stack the judiciary for racism, lock people out of bathrooms, and take away our safety nets. That's the world they are in the process of creating for themselves and the rest of us.
Hodgkinson is one of millions who daily on Twitter and other social media, and in news sites and comment sites like this one, deplore what Trump and the right wing is doing. That's hardly an indication of any violent intent. Tragically, it was inevitable someone would appear who felt violence is acceptable. How about Cliven Bundy? RW militias? Orlando shooter? Tucson? Rand Paul said in a tweet that guns were for going after the government. Maybe it's all his fault.
World gone mad.
Hodgkinson is one of millions who daily on Twitter and other social media, and in news sites and comment sites like this one, deplore what Trump and the right wing is doing. That's hardly an indication of any violent intent. Tragically, it was inevitable someone would appear who felt violence is acceptable. How about Cliven Bundy? RW militias? Orlando shooter? Tucson? Rand Paul said in a tweet that guns were for going after the government. Maybe it's all his fault.
World gone mad.
7
Crazy angry people are just obnoxious trolls on the internet--until they buy an assault weapon. Why make it so easy for them to take that fatal step?
7
Trump read from a teleprompter. I doubt he wrote or even read his speech before delivering it. I live in Texas. Calling my representative regarding gun control would be completely useless. If Trump didn't advocate that all of the baseball players should have had guns Texas legislators will probably try to make this a law in the special session called to pursue the idiotic "bathroom law."
That the Sandy Hook murders couldn't sway the NRA and its servants the Republican Party to enact some kind of gun control then nothing will.
That the Sandy Hook murders couldn't sway the NRA and its servants the Republican Party to enact some kind of gun control then nothing will.
3
We celebrate a murderous devotion to guns. We elect an open hate-monger to our highest office. Our airwaves and bandwidth are saturated with the ravings of bigots, homophobes, and xenophobes. Our leaders wage wars continuously on other peoples of the world. We revile and cut education at every level. We deny medical care to our weakest and neediest. Our local police routinely murder black and other citizens of color. There is little to admire in our nation anymore, and our citizenry seems to be okay with that. While I laud and support the efforts and dedication of the ACLU, the SPLC, and the thousands, even millions, of individuals who fight for our real freedoms, I feel we have lost the opportunity to make our nation what it purports to be. We have given it up to satisfy our rampant consumerism. We have given it up to celebrate our culture of self-importance and soul-destroying striving. I wish it were not so, but wishes are not going to change the way we are.
11
First, the idea of a Times Square gun violence clock is terrific.
Second, the shooter, Mr. Hodgkinson, was not a skilled marksman -- 500 rounds, only four hit. Imagine if he had been a Marine?
Finally, how come all these Republican Congressmen, champions of the Second Amendment, were unarmed? Highlights a weakness in their argument, maybe?
Second, the shooter, Mr. Hodgkinson, was not a skilled marksman -- 500 rounds, only four hit. Imagine if he had been a Marine?
Finally, how come all these Republican Congressmen, champions of the Second Amendment, were unarmed? Highlights a weakness in their argument, maybe?
4
GimmeShelter
The most likely reason these “champions of the Second Amendment” were unarmed is because they probably would have to had to bring their guns from their primary domicile in Washington DC. Washington DC has some of the most gunaphobic laws in the nation which would have made them criminals if they did in fact have a gun there.
The most likely reason these “champions of the Second Amendment” were unarmed is because they probably would have to had to bring their guns from their primary domicile in Washington DC. Washington DC has some of the most gunaphobic laws in the nation which would have made them criminals if they did in fact have a gun there.
The man who threatened Pelosi's life in 2010 I used to see on the train. He had obvious developmental problems. Limbaugh particularly hated Pelosi and ranted about her. The man who threatened her was really a victim in all this as well. Not able to understand that Limbaugh and Hannity are just for show he took it seriously and acted on it. When they sentenced him he cried. The mentally ill and mentally incapacitated are allowed to have guns in this country and they use them. The right's answer is always more guns and less care for the mentally ill. Great combination.
11
The phenomena are obviously bloody complicated, but what isn't.
We are mad, we're getting madder, and perhaps now we realize our mutual destruction is mostly random, because, despite the apparent success the Aussies apparently now enjoy, our gun culture can't be rationally regulated.
The political phenomena are fully chaotic and contradictory.
The politicos of whatever party understand our miserable dilemma, and are stuck in fear muck as we sweat and unfortunates reap death and suffering from what we've created in our truly tragically divided nation.
The gun lobby "wins," and the perverse normalcy of crazed gun violence prevails until ... forever.
We aren't Australia, unfortunately.
While they deserve my/your envy.
We are mad, we're getting madder, and perhaps now we realize our mutual destruction is mostly random, because, despite the apparent success the Aussies apparently now enjoy, our gun culture can't be rationally regulated.
The political phenomena are fully chaotic and contradictory.
The politicos of whatever party understand our miserable dilemma, and are stuck in fear muck as we sweat and unfortunates reap death and suffering from what we've created in our truly tragically divided nation.
The gun lobby "wins," and the perverse normalcy of crazed gun violence prevails until ... forever.
We aren't Australia, unfortunately.
While they deserve my/your envy.
2
As we in district NJ 3 learned recently in the healthcare debate, calling and writing your congressman is useless. Organizing to vote them out of office is the only solution.
10
When our elected leaders did nothing after Sandy Hook, i gave up any hope they would ever do anything about gun control. If babies and their teachers can be killed without enough public or governmental outrage, nothing is going to move them.
7
Let's get rid of these stupid traditions. Democrats and Republicans seem to live in different countries. In every aspect of politics tradition is dead mostly. Why hang on to this pretense that we are friends, we can play ball together?
Why give Paul Ryan a chance to say we are one people when in reality everything his party is doing is to deepen divisions?
Why give Paul Ryan a chance to say we are one people when in reality everything his party is doing is to deepen divisions?
7
The hypocrisy on stage yesterday was very hard to take. “We’re a family?” “Working together for the common good?” Pretty words, utter lies. They all know it. I wish they would have just remained silent. But they all stood up and fed us the palaver they figured we want to hear. I’m surprised they didn’t break out in “Kumbaya.”
This event will change nothing. Mo Brooks, Representative from Alabama was dismayed that he didn’t have a weapon on him when the shooting started. Of course, that’s natural, we all want to be able to defend ourselves in a situation like that, but there was something about his remark that made me certain that one response will be that this is even more evidence that we all should be armed and ready at all times. Because America is dangerous. That’s our national mindset, a mindset that the NRA carefully cultivates. Perhaps Mr. Brooks is himself an excellent shot and would have prevented injuries, but frankly, Gail, if he is the average American, he probably would have shot himself in the foot, or shot an innocent person. Panic does not make a person a crack shot. That’s why guns should be limited to trained people in law enforcement. Americans just delude themselves.
Mr. Trump may not have suggested that all baseball players be armed, but I wonder what Mr. Brooks and his constituents in Alabama think. Change will come only if people like Mr. Brooks are willing to change their outlook. Doubtful.
This event will change nothing. Mo Brooks, Representative from Alabama was dismayed that he didn’t have a weapon on him when the shooting started. Of course, that’s natural, we all want to be able to defend ourselves in a situation like that, but there was something about his remark that made me certain that one response will be that this is even more evidence that we all should be armed and ready at all times. Because America is dangerous. That’s our national mindset, a mindset that the NRA carefully cultivates. Perhaps Mr. Brooks is himself an excellent shot and would have prevented injuries, but frankly, Gail, if he is the average American, he probably would have shot himself in the foot, or shot an innocent person. Panic does not make a person a crack shot. That’s why guns should be limited to trained people in law enforcement. Americans just delude themselves.
Mr. Trump may not have suggested that all baseball players be armed, but I wonder what Mr. Brooks and his constituents in Alabama think. Change will come only if people like Mr. Brooks are willing to change their outlook. Doubtful.
5
What we need to see happen, immediately is the publication of Congressman Scalise's insides after the bullet arrived. We need to see the X-rays showing the trajectory and internal damage that one single bullet did to the Member of Congress.
The press can get the X-rays released and publish it along with a Dr.'s trajectory explanation! The press can fax a copy to every Member of Congress with the medical explanation. Then watch the Members lick the boots of the NRA in their refusal of even considering or allowing a debate on the removal of those kinds of bullets from our retail shelves.
Imagine for a moment my inspired world peace plan performance of my Book ov Lev It A Kiss, beginning with a peaceful night with all the worlds' peoples participating in the dusk until dawn performance of my prophetic Television Scripture whose tap-a-stream is world peace and food chain harmony and how we can get to lasting world peace without world government.
Sadly the FBI connected newsroom people in every major newspaper despise these ideas and suppress their expression.
In any case, after world peace comes the countries all the other people in the world will want to visit are the places where the streets are clean and pothole free and it's safe to walk down any street. That is not us.
http://thegovernmentinexile.live
The press can get the X-rays released and publish it along with a Dr.'s trajectory explanation! The press can fax a copy to every Member of Congress with the medical explanation. Then watch the Members lick the boots of the NRA in their refusal of even considering or allowing a debate on the removal of those kinds of bullets from our retail shelves.
Imagine for a moment my inspired world peace plan performance of my Book ov Lev It A Kiss, beginning with a peaceful night with all the worlds' peoples participating in the dusk until dawn performance of my prophetic Television Scripture whose tap-a-stream is world peace and food chain harmony and how we can get to lasting world peace without world government.
Sadly the FBI connected newsroom people in every major newspaper despise these ideas and suppress their expression.
In any case, after world peace comes the countries all the other people in the world will want to visit are the places where the streets are clean and pothole free and it's safe to walk down any street. That is not us.
http://thegovernmentinexile.live
2
All this treacle about baseball bringing everyone together is a laughable insult to everyone in the US. This is a governing body with an approval rating just above tuberculosis that cannot agree on what day it is.
Perhaps they should attempt to legislate out on a ball field instead of on the Hill. Wait - is that Saint Reagan coming in from from the cornfield, lecturing all idiotically on the joys of trickle-down economics?
Perhaps they should attempt to legislate out on a ball field instead of on the Hill. Wait - is that Saint Reagan coming in from from the cornfield, lecturing all idiotically on the joys of trickle-down economics?
7
Just this one time, I would like to know how many comments regarding this incident have been filtered out by the NYT.
Imagine if the shooter at the baseball game practice of Republican Congress had used a silencer.
"House Republicans will be commemorating the occasion in their own way: They will begin work relaxing restrictions on firearm silencers — thereby making it easier for shooters to shoot without being noticed. ...
a provision of the “Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act” called the “Hearing Protection Act” — as if it were subsidizing earplugs."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-a...
"House Republicans will be commemorating the occasion in their own way: They will begin work relaxing restrictions on firearm silencers — thereby making it easier for shooters to shoot without being noticed. ...
a provision of the “Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement Act” called the “Hearing Protection Act” — as if it were subsidizing earplugs."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-a...
7
If Congress could be shaken enough to change gun laws because of the atttack on "them", it tells me that they lack real empathy.
Has anyone in Congress lost a 6 year old kid to a bullett? This sparked rage, grief, etc., but it didn't really impact congress. How about the massacre at the night club? It was not personal for them.
This news will burn out, and our reps will return to their concern for their NRA ratings.
Has anyone in Congress lost a 6 year old kid to a bullett? This sparked rage, grief, etc., but it didn't really impact congress. How about the massacre at the night club? It was not personal for them.
This news will burn out, and our reps will return to their concern for their NRA ratings.
Scalise was one of many GOP congress people who worked hard and passed bills to widen the 2nd Amendment to allow sane and insane alike to gain access to guns, as many as they could afford to buy.
Therefore, one reaps what one sows.
Therefore, one reaps what one sows.
7
In January 2016 candidate Trump promised there would be no gun-free zones in America's schools as of his first day in office.
In August 2016 candidate Trump accused Hilary Clinton of wanting to abolish the Second Amendment, and then added that the Second Amendment people could "maybe do something about it."
In January 2017 President Trump spoke at the National Rifle Association convention and told the attendees "you have a true friend and champion in the White House."
What else is there to say? When it comes to tighter gun regulations Stephen Miller was right "The President will not be questioned." Nether will the NRA and most of the Republican Congress. Sickening.
In August 2016 candidate Trump accused Hilary Clinton of wanting to abolish the Second Amendment, and then added that the Second Amendment people could "maybe do something about it."
In January 2017 President Trump spoke at the National Rifle Association convention and told the attendees "you have a true friend and champion in the White House."
What else is there to say? When it comes to tighter gun regulations Stephen Miller was right "The President will not be questioned." Nether will the NRA and most of the Republican Congress. Sickening.
9
As the killing of 23 five year olds did not move the Republican congress
maybe shooting one of their own would finally move them to fimally tackle gun control. or maybe wait for more shooting
maybe shooting one of their own would finally move them to fimally tackle gun control. or maybe wait for more shooting
4
"Write a letter. Call your representative. Hold a meeting. You can demand laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks, or laws to ban rifles that allow one person to take down several dozen victims without reloading. Even if your hopes aren’t high, keep fighting. This is a righteous cause.
And vote out of office every Senator and Representative who receives a high rating by the NRA! .....(easy to goggle)
And vote out of office every Senator and Representative who receives a high rating by the NRA! .....(easy to goggle)
4
As I watched Senators give teary statements about how horrific it was to be on the field when the shooting started, or seeing a friend shot and crawling across the field covered in blood, I wondered if they ever give a thought to the countless children (and adults) in this country who have to live like that on a daily basis. And you can be sure there is no "increased security presence" afterward to make them feel safer! Get a backbone Congress and stand up for your besieged constituents!
9
For approximately 20 hours yesterday everyone in government and those who are mouth pieces for both parties handled themselves with surprising dignity. Except for Newt but that's another story. No one could find fault with the President's statement. It was what was required by a President. But that was yesterday. Instead of remaining quiet the President unleashed a flurry of Tweets undoing any positive vibes that might have come his way. As the President might say.....SAD!
2
When Gabby Giffords was shot, there was a lot of the same sentiments. But in the end, the most her colleagues did in her favor was sing "God Bless America". The process to own guns needs to be like the motor vehicle process - testing, licensing, registering, inspections & insurance. While I am glad that Senator Flake is ok after yesterday's incident, I would hope that he would rethink his views on gun control.
5
Remember how Trump signed an executive order reversing Obama's executive order. Trump wants the mentally ill to have access to guns...or maybe, he just hates everything Obama (my hunch). Sad.
6
Gail you wrote that I didn't say all the folks should have been armed, but that's exactly what I was thinking. America will not be safe from senseless gun violence until every man, woman and child is armed.
www.TheDeplorableDonald.com
www.TheDeplorableDonald.com
4
The Republicans made a wise decision to play ball with their Democrat opponents today. Maybe by showing their bipartisanship during the game the country can start to heal after this terrible tragedy. At least it is a good start and hopefully they will set a good example for our country. We need to heal and come together as a nation for the good of the people.
1
Looks like this shooter was just following Trump's advice--to rectify political injustice, deploy what Trump calls the "Second Amendment solution". Go shoot your adversaries. Maybe now that a few congressmen have joined the many thousands on the gun casualty list, they will vote to take assault weapons out of the hands of scoundrels and maniacs. But don't hold your breath.
2
But 'normal' people should have assault rifles?
2
Even in the Wild Wild West, the Tombstone of Wyatt Earp's time had laws against carrying guns in the city. Why is it that the sense of this was so obvious to people 140 years ago and eludes lawmakers today?
3
I am 100% for gun control, but that won't do it, either. You have crazies charging other people with butcher knives, making homegrown explosives, anything they can think of to take their terrible rage out on other human beings. You see it in the road rage at the slightest misstep of another driver. You see it in the grocery store if you get in someone's way, by mistake. There is real rage in the country and the world right now. I think a lot of it is displaced anger at the helplessness we all feel at being able to control anything while the center of our universe is being torn apart. What is the answer? Smarter heads than mine can't figure it out.
Just another blip on the radar -- sadly. Twenty children dead at the hands of a lunatic with a weapon and no laws were changed to protect the innocent. James Brady's life altered by a bullet meant for the president he served and yet that same president -- Reagan -- did nothing to curtail gun proliferation. Gabby Giffords' life changed by a bullet to the head and six others dead in the same hail of bullets and nothing changed. Now a congressman and others shot by a guy with a gun and hate in his heart and nothing will be done about the gun epidemic. Meanwhile basically 100 people are shot in the US daily. Three died yesterday morning in San Francisco at the hands of a fellow employee and then he killed himself and that story was lost in the news cycle and will be replaced today by some other miscreant with a gun put in his hands by the same people in Congress who yesterday were wringing their hands and saying all of the same niceties they always say while planning to do NOTHING to stop the killings.
9
The NRA and gun-dealers and gun lobbyists in our culture are guilty of purveying weapons to the mentally disturbed and unfit. Wherever the Alexandria baseball field shooter bought his automatic rifle and handgun and ammo was where American's penchant for easy access to gun violence starts. The shooting and horrific maiming of Arizona Representative, Gabby Giffords, in the CasaAdobes parking lot on 8 January 2011, was a terrible event in the Second Amendment ease of demented persons buying weapons for killing. the Dylann Roof massacre in the Charleston "Mother Emanuel Church" was another grotesque killing by a young, incompetent white extremist.
If Congress does nothing about gun control (chances are slim to none that they will) - and both houses of Congress and the Executive are ruled by Republicans - then the shootings and killings will continue unabated. There will be "cumbaya" singings by bi-partisans after each shooting, massacre, murder in our future. The title of your column, Gail, said it all - "Play Ball, and Then Gunfire".
If Congress does nothing about gun control (chances are slim to none that they will) - and both houses of Congress and the Executive are ruled by Republicans - then the shootings and killings will continue unabated. There will be "cumbaya" singings by bi-partisans after each shooting, massacre, murder in our future. The title of your column, Gail, said it all - "Play Ball, and Then Gunfire".
1
The underlying problem is the same whether a right-wing nut job does it (as in the Gabby Giffords case) or a left-wing nut job does it (as in this incident with Steve Scalise) – an unrestricted proliferation of guns that are available to the most undeserving people in our society. It is easier to buy a gun than get a driver’s license – the former is a right, the latter is a privilege – go figure!
We have the equivalent of a 9/11 in deaths every month due to gun violence. Wake up, America – if the data doesn’t convince you about the need for sensible “laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks, or laws to ban rifles that allow one person to take down several dozen victims without reloading,” what will?
We have the equivalent of a 9/11 in deaths every month due to gun violence. Wake up, America – if the data doesn’t convince you about the need for sensible “laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks, or laws to ban rifles that allow one person to take down several dozen victims without reloading,” what will?
5
OK I understand somewhat those who love hunting and fishing as a sport/way to relax. I just cannot get into my head what it is about owning a gun, wearing a gun in a holster, walking around with a gun makes any sense at all. Put the statistics aside, you know, all those bad things that can happen to you that come with gun ownership, what is it about owning a gun. OK, I'll even walk on the wild side for all those who think that a gun will protect them from the Zombie apocalypse--still, there are so many less dangerous diversions---Netflix, attending sporting events, reading a book, second honeymoons---but, carrying a gun...I just don't get it.
1
Come on Gail. You must do better. Is it really all up to the people to make sure their voices are loudest? It reminds me of camp color wars, where each team is exhorted to show the most spirit. Is that any way to run a country?
The truth of the matter is that the only thing elected officials care about is votes. They've already gotten reelected by resisting gun reform, so why would they stop now?
The people that need to be convinced are the ones who believe the claims that a) guns keep us safer and b) even if they don't, they are vital to the functioning of a working democracy.
Regarding the first point, we need to let doctors speak up about guns in the home. How about we start by letting the ATF and CDC conduct gun research? How about letting the federal gov't create a repository of gun sale purchases?
Regarding the second point, we can point to many examples of countries with widespread gun ownership and few restrictions - Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan - that I think most people can agree are not exactly beacons of democracy and liberty.
Obama spent 8 years trying to court reasonable Republicans. He not only failed to do that, he failed to convince people that Republicans were being unreasonable. Every election, more of them got into office. At some point, we have to acknowledge that we are in a war of ideas, and no amount of superficial collegiality can obscure that. We don't agree on what the common good is, so how can we work together to achieve it?
The truth of the matter is that the only thing elected officials care about is votes. They've already gotten reelected by resisting gun reform, so why would they stop now?
The people that need to be convinced are the ones who believe the claims that a) guns keep us safer and b) even if they don't, they are vital to the functioning of a working democracy.
Regarding the first point, we need to let doctors speak up about guns in the home. How about we start by letting the ATF and CDC conduct gun research? How about letting the federal gov't create a repository of gun sale purchases?
Regarding the second point, we can point to many examples of countries with widespread gun ownership and few restrictions - Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan - that I think most people can agree are not exactly beacons of democracy and liberty.
Obama spent 8 years trying to court reasonable Republicans. He not only failed to do that, he failed to convince people that Republicans were being unreasonable. Every election, more of them got into office. At some point, we have to acknowledge that we are in a war of ideas, and no amount of superficial collegiality can obscure that. We don't agree on what the common good is, so how can we work together to achieve it?
14
"Write a letter. Call your representative. Hold a meeting. You can demand laws to keep criminals from buying guns,"
Just wanted to reiterate this excellent and key point that Gail Collins makes in her fine oped piece.
Just wanted to reiterate this excellent and key point that Gail Collins makes in her fine oped piece.
How unbelievably obtuse. A guy shooting another guy in a bar is bad and may be bloody, but it's not political violence, which is an attack on democracy and affects the entire country. Can't you see the difference ?
1
FredO:
Speaking of 'unbelievably obtuse,' can you fail to comprehend that dead is dead? Every single day about 100 Americans needlessly take a bullet and die inside our own borders. Are you really trying to argue that's acceptable, so long as the means and motivation for the carnage is not religious or political extremism?
About the same time the incident occurred at the Congressional baseball practice, a fellow shot and killed three, wounded a few more, then shot himself at a UPS facility. But he didn't shout 'Allah be praised' or 'Don't Tread On Me,' so that's just the normal background noise of life in America in the 21st century, is that right?
We have expended billions piled on billions in response to a small handful of violent incidents perpetrated in this country in the name of an Islamist cult. Worse, we have distorted our democratic institutions and endured constraints on our own freedoms all out of proportion to the risk this cult poses to our personal safety. But in response to over 30,000 deaths by gunfire year in, year out, our response thus far is to encourage the proliferation of more and more powerful guns in private hands.
If that ain't 'obtuse' to you, heaven only knows what could be.
Speaking of 'unbelievably obtuse,' can you fail to comprehend that dead is dead? Every single day about 100 Americans needlessly take a bullet and die inside our own borders. Are you really trying to argue that's acceptable, so long as the means and motivation for the carnage is not religious or political extremism?
About the same time the incident occurred at the Congressional baseball practice, a fellow shot and killed three, wounded a few more, then shot himself at a UPS facility. But he didn't shout 'Allah be praised' or 'Don't Tread On Me,' so that's just the normal background noise of life in America in the 21st century, is that right?
We have expended billions piled on billions in response to a small handful of violent incidents perpetrated in this country in the name of an Islamist cult. Worse, we have distorted our democratic institutions and endured constraints on our own freedoms all out of proportion to the risk this cult poses to our personal safety. But in response to over 30,000 deaths by gunfire year in, year out, our response thus far is to encourage the proliferation of more and more powerful guns in private hands.
If that ain't 'obtuse' to you, heaven only knows what could be.
"Even if your hopes aren’t high, keep fighting. This is a righteous cause."
Yes, emphatically, it is. Only with sustained pressure will there ever be a chance of reinstating the federal assault weapons ban or passing a law to prevent criminals from buying guns. Common sense must be legislated.
Thank you, Gail Collins.
Yes, emphatically, it is. Only with sustained pressure will there ever be a chance of reinstating the federal assault weapons ban or passing a law to prevent criminals from buying guns. Common sense must be legislated.
Thank you, Gail Collins.
14
There is a reason guns are kept out of the Congress and other federal buildings. It has to do with open discourse and the safety of congress people and other federal employees and it is a tacit admission that guns are dangerous in the wrong hands. What kind of conversation would occur if congress people were allowed guns on the floor of Congress?
When congress people are threatened or shot we hear great waves of sympathy, outrage and empty speeches about coming together. But our nationwide epidemic of gun violence is largely overlooked because it does not involve legislative hides.
I am saddened by the violence and bloodshed for the victims and families, but am disgusted by our inaction and inability to decide on the most simple gun controls. And most of all I am sickened by the BRA and money that buys congressional inaction against the will of the vast majority of the American people who support modest gun control.
When congress people are threatened or shot we hear great waves of sympathy, outrage and empty speeches about coming together. But our nationwide epidemic of gun violence is largely overlooked because it does not involve legislative hides.
I am saddened by the violence and bloodshed for the victims and families, but am disgusted by our inaction and inability to decide on the most simple gun controls. And most of all I am sickened by the BRA and money that buys congressional inaction against the will of the vast majority of the American people who support modest gun control.
I suppose it's cold blooded to say so, but the lesson here seems to be that everyone is now a target. You can be for unrestricted gun ownership, private ownership of military style weapons and access to high capacity magazines and clips and still, somewhere out there, someone is willing to take advantage of that freedom to obtain the means to stalk and kill you. You have your beliefs and they have theirs. It's the American way and no matter how high your NRA rating might be, you're just as much in the crosshairs as everyone else.
10
Whenever there's a mass shooting, politicians who receive a lot of support from the NRA offer prayers. Then they blame something else, anything besides easy access to guns -- it used to be video games and now we're at liberal politics.
Until we understand that all the fake arguments and suppression of information and studies on gun violence is a smokescreen hiding the fact that people are making too much money to care about people's lives, that there is a direct correlation between gun violence and sales spikes, we will be sacrificing our lives and/or those we care about to the gun industry profit machine.
And those on the bottom of society who angrily defend unfettered, unrestricted easy access to guns for everyone, are the suicide soldiers, unknowingly defending a machine that eats them, even if owning guns give them the delusion of power and control over what happens around them.
Until we understand that all the fake arguments and suppression of information and studies on gun violence is a smokescreen hiding the fact that people are making too much money to care about people's lives, that there is a direct correlation between gun violence and sales spikes, we will be sacrificing our lives and/or those we care about to the gun industry profit machine.
And those on the bottom of society who angrily defend unfettered, unrestricted easy access to guns for everyone, are the suicide soldiers, unknowingly defending a machine that eats them, even if owning guns give them the delusion of power and control over what happens around them.
10
A "targeted" assassination on a political party, Ms. Collins. Get it straight.
2
The shooter was involved in an incident years ago in which he threatened a man by pointing a gun at his head. That alone should have prevented him from ever buying or owning guns.
There often are signs a shooter had emotional problems before he erupts. Everyone seems to think the mentally ill shouldn't own guns (maybe not everyone; the gun lobby doesn't agree). Yet we don't do anything about it. Thanks to Republicans, gun violence will continue.
There often are signs a shooter had emotional problems before he erupts. Everyone seems to think the mentally ill shouldn't own guns (maybe not everyone; the gun lobby doesn't agree). Yet we don't do anything about it. Thanks to Republicans, gun violence will continue.
8
What did any of the gun-loving Republicans expect? When you bray about throwing tens of millions off healthcare, there's bound to be consequences. These Republican politicians are the real killers.
In Michigan our Republican lead house and Governor are in the process of passing a law that would allow anyone to open carry a gun without registration or training.
Tell me how that is going to make people safe.
Tell me how that is going to make people safe.
7
Guess we should be thankful large caliber machine guns are not so readily available. Crazy society. Financial greed of gun and ammo companies provide this evil witches brew.
2
The best place to start fixing things would be for the NY Times Opinion writers to tone down the nastiness and vitriol that pervades so much of their writing. It fuels massive hostility on these message boards, which quite frankly makes anyone with a conservative slant feel unwelcome, to say the least. For any business to display such hostility towards one half of the population seems crazy.
One can state their opinions with fact, logic, reason and skill -- without getting ugly. This place can get very ugly.
One can state their opinions with fact, logic, reason and skill -- without getting ugly. This place can get very ugly.
4
"One can state their opinions with fact, logic, reason and skill -- without getting ugly. This place can get very ugly."
Ugly? Well then, please take solace and comfort by going to Drudge, Breitbart, Fox, MSN.com (they have a lovely comments section) and so on, and so on. Plenty of the civility you're looking for is readily available there.
Ugly? Well then, please take solace and comfort by going to Drudge, Breitbart, Fox, MSN.com (they have a lovely comments section) and so on, and so on. Plenty of the civility you're looking for is readily available there.
Trump is an ugly guy, Joe. And his fan club members are ugly.
Them's the facts, logic, reasons.
Them's the facts, logic, reasons.
For years, NRA and their campaign contributions have been buying laws that give more people more guns in more places.
But the NRA and politicians really know what the problems are.
When the Georgia state legislature voted for their looser gun restrictions, they specifically prohibited guns in the state capital buildings.
And the NRA will tell you they allow guns in their DC building. But really it is just in their gun range in the back. No guns allowed in the office building.
It is shameful hypocrisy all for money.
But the NRA and politicians really know what the problems are.
When the Georgia state legislature voted for their looser gun restrictions, they specifically prohibited guns in the state capital buildings.
And the NRA will tell you they allow guns in their DC building. But really it is just in their gun range in the back. No guns allowed in the office building.
It is shameful hypocrisy all for money.
9
Just imagine if the shooter had soon-to-be legal silencers on his guns. How many more people would have been shot before those on the field had a clue to what a was happening.
11
Trump's speech may not have insulted anyone because it was one of the few times he read it, word for word it appears, and also rather haltingly.
Isn't is interesting that when he speaks off the cuff in interviews or rallies, he comes up with the most vile comments and outright lies. But when someone prepares something for him to say, as with this speech and his first before Congress, he's praised.
Isn't is interesting that when he speaks off the cuff in interviews or rallies, he comes up with the most vile comments and outright lies. But when someone prepares something for him to say, as with this speech and his first before Congress, he's praised.
6
If one life a day could be saved, gun control would serve a worthwhile purpose ... unless one thinks 365 lives saved is insignificant. Guns do one thing extremely well; they kill.
6
Another citizen enjoying two great American past times, baseball and shooting ones fellow citizens. I can't wait to hear the NRA's take on this latest mass shooting; perhaps this citizens right to object to the infield fly rule with 50 rounds from a semi-automatic rifle. I suppose it is too much to hope that with Republicans in the cross-hairs they might reconsider that the Second Amendment also contains the phrase "well regulated". But after the shooting of Representative Giffords, I suppose not.
4
The very fact that all the sanctimonious bible-thumping "mainstream" Americans put a man like Donald Trump into the White House guarantees that there is no real "coming together" in this country's future. Why should any public official be safe when none of the rest of us are? The ball field shooter may or may not have been mentally disturbed but there are millions of undiagnosed fanatics in America who have doomed us to a miserable future. One of them sits in the White House.
9
“there’s something wrong with a country in which an average of 93 people are killed with guns every day”
The above is just another prime example of how the New York Times routinely engages in distortion and manipulation to promote their anti-gun agenda. Fully 62 of the 93 are suicide. Suicide is a tragedy but it is not remotely the equivalent of murder and coupling the two together to run up the numbers is disingenuous at best.
The above is just another prime example of how the New York Times routinely engages in distortion and manipulation to promote their anti-gun agenda. Fully 62 of the 93 are suicide. Suicide is a tragedy but it is not remotely the equivalent of murder and coupling the two together to run up the numbers is disingenuous at best.
They are getting what they sowed. The GOP wants less regulation on guns, now they are a target and blame the DEMS for sowing hate?! Who are they kidding?! Oh, I guess they are lining up the GOP talking points on why Congress needs more protection for themselves and looser gun laws so everyone can defend themselves, even the insane people who want to do others harm. The Second Amendment was written to ensure citizens in the early days of our country a way to protect and defend their communities from attack. Nothing will change so why do we even try
7
"Regress back"? Is that the opposite of "progress forward"?
English please!
English please!
Another day- another disgusting incidence of gun violence by a crazy person with a gun.
Because all the attention went to the shooting of members of Congress, hardly any attention was paid to the UPS shootings that actually killed several people.
I hold the NRA responsible for their hold over politicians- follow the money.
If people want to have guns for self protection or hunting- I have no problem with that.
What I do have an issue with is the NRA false propaganda that any common sense gun control like background checks to prevent crazy people from getting guns is a so called slippery slope. Gun show loopholes are another gaping loop hole.
That is a disgusting lie. In fact, the vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who favor common sense gun control including background checks, waiting periods and no sale of automatic weapons. These weapons are not for hunting and self protection- they are only for mass murder.
The NRA spends millions on bribing politicians with money ( campaign money and perhaps personal bank accounts- who knows).
Follow the money and you will see the NRA's continued irresponsible war on common sense gun control is the problem- and of course, the politicians that take the money and do their bidding.
Because all the attention went to the shooting of members of Congress, hardly any attention was paid to the UPS shootings that actually killed several people.
I hold the NRA responsible for their hold over politicians- follow the money.
If people want to have guns for self protection or hunting- I have no problem with that.
What I do have an issue with is the NRA false propaganda that any common sense gun control like background checks to prevent crazy people from getting guns is a so called slippery slope. Gun show loopholes are another gaping loop hole.
That is a disgusting lie. In fact, the vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who favor common sense gun control including background checks, waiting periods and no sale of automatic weapons. These weapons are not for hunting and self protection- they are only for mass murder.
The NRA spends millions on bribing politicians with money ( campaign money and perhaps personal bank accounts- who knows).
Follow the money and you will see the NRA's continued irresponsible war on common sense gun control is the problem- and of course, the politicians that take the money and do their bidding.
3
• “I’m not shocked or surprised this happened. I lived through this once before,” Gillibrand said. “We’re in a violent time. We’ve seen Sandy Hook, we’ve seen such horrible gun violence in our communities for a very long time.”
“America..., just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.” ~ HUNTER S. THOMPSON
The U.S. is a violent nation.
The U.S. has been at war 93% of the time – 223 out of 241 years – since founded in 1776. ~ WashingtonsBlog
What else can you expect? It's endemic.
On Giffords' shooting, former Times op-ed columnist BOB HERBERT wrote:
"There is nothing more American than brutal violence. The country was built on it, revels in it and shows every evidence of clinging to it with the crazed, destructive strength of an obsessive lover.
"We need to face up to the fact that this is an insanely violent society. The vitriol that has become an integral part of our political rhetoric, most egregiously from the right, is just one of the myriad contributing factors in a society saturated in blood.
" And similar tragedies are coming as surely as the sun makes its daily appearance over the eastern horizon because this is an American ritual: the mowing down of the innocents.
"Neither the public nor the politicians seem to really care how many Americans are murdered — unless it’s in a terror attack by foreigners."
~ January 10, 2011
“America..., just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable.” ~ HUNTER S. THOMPSON
The U.S. is a violent nation.
The U.S. has been at war 93% of the time – 223 out of 241 years – since founded in 1776. ~ WashingtonsBlog
What else can you expect? It's endemic.
On Giffords' shooting, former Times op-ed columnist BOB HERBERT wrote:
"There is nothing more American than brutal violence. The country was built on it, revels in it and shows every evidence of clinging to it with the crazed, destructive strength of an obsessive lover.
"We need to face up to the fact that this is an insanely violent society. The vitriol that has become an integral part of our political rhetoric, most egregiously from the right, is just one of the myriad contributing factors in a society saturated in blood.
" And similar tragedies are coming as surely as the sun makes its daily appearance over the eastern horizon because this is an American ritual: the mowing down of the innocents.
"Neither the public nor the politicians seem to really care how many Americans are murdered — unless it’s in a terror attack by foreigners."
~ January 10, 2011
4
Meanwhile, we give PrimeTime coverage to shock jocks like Alex Jones --
and wonder where civility has gone?
and wonder where civility has gone?
1
Don't even know who Alex Jones is. Turn off the TV and you will bring peace to mind.
What say you, Alex Jones? Another staged event?
2
Since the republicans have already called out for looser gun restrictions in the wake of this attack by another sick man, it can only get worse. Where was the republican rage when Giffords was shot and six people killed? Or the killing of nine black people in a prayer circle in their church by a white supremacist? How many of them, including the president, still listen to Alex Jones who shouts loudly and proudly that Sandy Hook didn't happen? One of theirs has been shot, time to arm the entire population in response.
Yes, it is a righteous cause. But we in America are insane that we allow this carnage to continue, and in fact get worse.
Republicans in congress now want to further loosen gun laws saying they felt like sitting ducks out there not being able to shoot back. That's what we need. Another ten guns firing away spraying bullets everywhere.
Republicans say that it would be a sin to leave our children and grandchildren with a little national debt they would have to pay for. They think it perfectly fine to leave them with the carnage we see on a daily basis which cause is attributable to only one thing: the crazy ability of anyone to buy a firearm.
Of course, this is the party that thinks it's alright to leave our children with an uninhabitable planet as long as coal mine owners can dump their waste into our rivers.
Republicans in congress now want to further loosen gun laws saying they felt like sitting ducks out there not being able to shoot back. That's what we need. Another ten guns firing away spraying bullets everywhere.
Republicans say that it would be a sin to leave our children and grandchildren with a little national debt they would have to pay for. They think it perfectly fine to leave them with the carnage we see on a daily basis which cause is attributable to only one thing: the crazy ability of anyone to buy a firearm.
Of course, this is the party that thinks it's alright to leave our children with an uninhabitable planet as long as coal mine owners can dump their waste into our rivers.
3
Thank you Gail, for this article.
Americans are far more likely to suffer from random gun violence than acts of terrorism in America. And the NRA-GOP answer is yet more guns to arm the citizens against even more gun violence.
What could go wrong with that policy?
What could go wrong with that policy?
6
So what now that people of Congress got a look from the other side of the barrel?
Quite different from those photo ops when YOUR holding the gun v. seeing it pointed at you!
Will it bring a revised sensibility to gun laws?
Quite different from those photo ops when YOUR holding the gun v. seeing it pointed at you!
Will it bring a revised sensibility to gun laws?
2
Why was this mass shooting attempt different from other mass shootings? Because it was the first first time in a democracy that an individual has attempted to assassinate more than 20 elected national officials at once.
Let's all stop being glib, and realize what a shocking new low in our national history we have reached.
Let's all stop being glib, and realize what a shocking new low in our national history we have reached.
3
Jean, not as low as Russians trying to subvert our Democracy, with the likely collusion of our current administration, and the GOP pretending it didn't happen.
1
Indeed!
Republican lawmakers rather die than let a sensible gun restriction law pass. This tragically happened yesterday
2
Note to NRA: Another of your chickens has come home to roost. It must be comforting to know that at least one of them is...was not a Republican. Time to start working on ads about guns not having political preferences.
4
About gun control you say "This is a righteous cause." Maybe. But my question is whether it is a wise cause. Recent history seems to suggest that it is a sure way to lose elections. Actually, recent history also seems to suggest that more decent black folks and good Muslims should be out there buying guns to protect themselves and more decent folk on the Left should be out there buying guns in case in case they ever have to protect themselves from an evil government.
One photo of the classroom in Sandy Hook, as horrible as it would be to see, would take us directly to serious gun control, at the very least an assault weapon ban
2
how I wish this were true. for the gun lovers, nothing will change their minds.
NO citizen should have access to Military weapons, ever! And we use to worry about Weapons of mass destruction in Foreign lands and then drained our Treasury to find them and all along they are right here in front of our eyes (if we looked up from our handheld screens).
2
If the shooting deaths of 25 kindergarteners at Sandy Hook didn't encourage any action, this won't either. The only thing left is to wait for Alex Jones to declare it all a hoax, as he did to the Newtown parents.
2
It is ironic that this happened as Congress is poised to vote on an Act that will make silencers legal. Imagine if the gunman had used a silencer. And imagine if they were unguarded as we private citizens are unguarded.
So the question becomes, why does Congress, and specifically the GOP, continue to enable criminals, crazy people, and domestically violent people by making it easier to buy a gun than a car?/
So the question becomes, why does Congress, and specifically the GOP, continue to enable criminals, crazy people, and domestically violent people by making it easier to buy a gun than a car?/
2
Amen to that, Gail. It is a righteous cause. To those who point to the 300 million guns in this country and say the problem is insoluble, we must say, every problem is insoluble if no one is trying to solve it. As everyone knows, the recipients of NRA money must be removed from Congress before our laws will change. Work for that change and many other benefits also will ensue.
2
There were Republicans dead against gay rights and then to their astonishment found there were gays in their own families and it changed their mind. They are dead against gun control but now they are being shot. Will this change their mind? Doubtful but one can only hope.
3
Human nature did not evolve to the point of being able to do more good than horrible damage/murder/mayhem/carnage with guns. We are, as a friend of mine once said: "monkeys with uzis."
Peace.
Peace.
I know that this is probably a silly idea. But if unity is what the Republicans and Democrats really want to show in tonight's game, they would mix up the rosters and have members of each party on each team. Then neither party wins or loses, and they will have all played well together.
1
As a country, not necessarily as individuals, America has lost its moral compass- politically, economically, and socially.
Greed, unenlightened self-interest, intolerance, ignorance, meanness, scapegoating, irrationality, fear and paranoia, disrespect for others and the truth, these traits are ascendant in American life and it is only getting worse. They pervade our politics and set us against each other. These conditions send the most unstable among us over the edge into violence, with the American romance with guns ensuring that they have easy access to weapons with which to kill or injure multiple people at a time.
No one factor is responsible and no one solution will turn things around. But turn things around we must.
Greed, unenlightened self-interest, intolerance, ignorance, meanness, scapegoating, irrationality, fear and paranoia, disrespect for others and the truth, these traits are ascendant in American life and it is only getting worse. They pervade our politics and set us against each other. These conditions send the most unstable among us over the edge into violence, with the American romance with guns ensuring that they have easy access to weapons with which to kill or injure multiple people at a time.
No one factor is responsible and no one solution will turn things around. But turn things around we must.
1
For a while, The New York Times had a feature which listed some of the dozens of gun deaths in the country. A running tally, with some details, would be a healthy way to change the dialogue. For purposes of general humanity, Scalise's shooting should be of no particular interest above the shootings of small children, "uppity" spouses, bosses, or driveby mayhem. Fathers are fathers, children all are beloved by somebody, a slaughtered friend is not missed less because she is a Congressperson. Come on, NYT, do some heavy duty reporting.
1
We live in the wild, wild west. A place ruled by fear and gun ownership, all financed by the NRA and the gun and ammunition manufacturers who profit from our collective fear. The Second Amendment will never go away, nor will the NRA cult followers or the millions and millions of guns sprinkled across the nation. Thousands of needless deaths will happen each year as a result. That's the price you pay for living in a country where a cult group and an industry can hijack a basic American right and turn it into needless deaths. This is not a plea for change, just an honest dissection of what got us to this regrettable point.
The NRA tells us that more and more guns in the hands of more and more people will make America safe again. Well, for years, we have been putting more guns in the hands of more people and the carnage only increases.
In fact, the country's ordinary citizens have come to their senses on gun violence, but the feckless figure we send to Congress remain senseless. It is up to us to restore common sense to Congress and to the White House by voting our diversely humane patriotic instincts.
Get well soon, Rep. Scalise so that you can redirect your powerful influence and energy toward healing our country's awful, deepening, self-inflicted wound of its ever more fragile spirit.
In fact, the country's ordinary citizens have come to their senses on gun violence, but the feckless figure we send to Congress remain senseless. It is up to us to restore common sense to Congress and to the White House by voting our diversely humane patriotic instincts.
Get well soon, Rep. Scalise so that you can redirect your powerful influence and energy toward healing our country's awful, deepening, self-inflicted wound of its ever more fragile spirit.
1
" if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform ..." what else is there to say?
3
What else indeed, except everything else that has been and will be said? It is long past time for sayin' and prayin'. Our people's Congress and White House no longer hear the people over the noise of their donors and lobbyists.
1
Is there any doubt that the London attack would have been a lot worse had gun laws there been as lax as they are here?
In general, I wonder when we will be a place of common sense again. I say 'again' as if we ever were and I'm actually not sure. But we need consensus around simple issues.
Have we lost control of our country? Are lobbies, TV commercials and talk radio stronger than our lawmakers? Has shouting replaced talking? Has partisanship replaced compromise? Has compromise become a dirty word? Is this violence what we reap?
In general, I wonder when we will be a place of common sense again. I say 'again' as if we ever were and I'm actually not sure. But we need consensus around simple issues.
Have we lost control of our country? Are lobbies, TV commercials and talk radio stronger than our lawmakers? Has shouting replaced talking? Has partisanship replaced compromise? Has compromise become a dirty word? Is this violence what we reap?
Cut the 'we are all one' talk. What we need is 'we are all against the NRA' talk. Praying and good wishes without action insults the many gun victims in this country.
1
Innocent little children are shot and killed and gun sales skyrocket. Aren't there enough guns already? Apparently not, I was told by a middle aged school secretary. Now a Republican representative and others, partly responsible for our nation's crazy obsession with guns, are injured. How do I feel? Well, come on, they brought it on themselves.
I don't have any hopes for this country as long as the NRA (gun manufacturers) control the Republican party and Fox News.
I don't have any hopes for this country as long as the NRA (gun manufacturers) control the Republican party and Fox News.
Gail, you left out the time-honored favorite...a moment of silence.
I'm so sick of "moments" followed by absolutely nothing. I hold out no hope for change. If our legislators refused to do anything to stop or even slow down gun violence after Sandy Hook and after one of their own was nearly killed - they're not going to do anything ever.
Ironically, one restriction was recently changed. It was a restriction preventing people who are so unable to manage their own affairs that someone else must handle their Social Security from buying guns. Now, thanks to Republicans in the Congress, the Senate and the White House, they can. So we can have even more gun violence.
I do not see any point in writing, calling or holding meetings. In the land of the free, we're free to kill one another.
I'm so sick of "moments" followed by absolutely nothing. I hold out no hope for change. If our legislators refused to do anything to stop or even slow down gun violence after Sandy Hook and after one of their own was nearly killed - they're not going to do anything ever.
Ironically, one restriction was recently changed. It was a restriction preventing people who are so unable to manage their own affairs that someone else must handle their Social Security from buying guns. Now, thanks to Republicans in the Congress, the Senate and the White House, they can. So we can have even more gun violence.
I do not see any point in writing, calling or holding meetings. In the land of the free, we're free to kill one another.
What happened in VA was horrible, but nobody DIED, except the shooter.
What happened in San Francisco was horrible AND people were killed by the shooter.
Why wasn't the situation in SanFran given more coverage than in VA?
Plus, I have not heard our fearless leader deplore what occurred in SanFran like he did in VA.
Again, WHY??
Don't answer.
What happened in San Francisco was horrible AND people were killed by the shooter.
Why wasn't the situation in SanFran given more coverage than in VA?
Plus, I have not heard our fearless leader deplore what occurred in SanFran like he did in VA.
Again, WHY??
Don't answer.
There is no question that what occurred yesterday was terrible. My heart goes out to the victims, and it is tragic that our political discourse has devolved to this point.
But it was hard to feel sympathy for some of the witnesses like Rand Paul after hearing their statements to the press after the shooting.
Paul, and others like Scalise, have consistently voted against sensible gun control laws. It is utter hypocrisy for politicians with that kind of record to come out and wax poetic about how it would have been a "massacre" if Scalise's security detail had not been present, how they were "sitting ducks" and how the "good guys" had nothing but pistols to stop a mentally ill shooter who armed with an assault rifle capable of multiple shots in rapid succession.
The children at Sandy Hook were "massacred," they did not have security detail, they were "sitting ducks" still learning how to read, and "good guys" with pistols would have only injured more children who were already being subjected to multiple shots in rapid succession. Even sadder is that the "good guys" who could have voted to limit those weapons did not and instead allowed those weapons to proliferate.
But it was hard to feel sympathy for some of the witnesses like Rand Paul after hearing their statements to the press after the shooting.
Paul, and others like Scalise, have consistently voted against sensible gun control laws. It is utter hypocrisy for politicians with that kind of record to come out and wax poetic about how it would have been a "massacre" if Scalise's security detail had not been present, how they were "sitting ducks" and how the "good guys" had nothing but pistols to stop a mentally ill shooter who armed with an assault rifle capable of multiple shots in rapid succession.
The children at Sandy Hook were "massacred," they did not have security detail, they were "sitting ducks" still learning how to read, and "good guys" with pistols would have only injured more children who were already being subjected to multiple shots in rapid succession. Even sadder is that the "good guys" who could have voted to limit those weapons did not and instead allowed those weapons to proliferate.
243
In this instance hypocrite and Republican can be used as synonyms after their wall of resistance on enacting any gun control and prepared to make guns even more available.
Did anyone notice that one of the wounded members of the Republican team was a LOBBYIST?
2
Yeah they are attached to the hip, lobbyists and congresspeople. In other countries its called bribery, here it is business as usual. People who have the means, send high paid lobbyists to schmooze and grease our lawmakers, who appear to be for sale.
we've heard from Trump, Bernie, Nancy and many others on the left and the right... still waiting to hear from Hillary, though
1
As I read through the comments on Gail's column today, I am struck by how few actually have any relevance to this shooting. Stricter gun control would have changed nothing about this particular situation. The shooter is likely to have had perfectly legal firearms, would not have been prevented from having the guns with any reasonable gun control, and was very unlikely to have been on any watch list. The victims had plenty of armed bodyguards who immediately opened fire on the shooter and redirected the shooter's fire.
There is no legislation or regulation that could have prevented this shooting.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see sensible gun control that would include better background checks, registration, etc. and I have no problem with authorities working to prevent terror attacks (some of the worst of which lately did not involve firearms) and watch-lists. History going back thousands of years is replete with examples of political assassination and terrorism. Some of the worst mass killings in modern times have been done in places with strict gun control. There is now a growing trend among liberals and more middle-class minorities to arm-up. The NRA and the gun industry can't lose, and it has vast political clout to be sure it doesn't.
A basic problem, unlikely to change, is that the Founding Fathers included the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, something that better fit their times but did not anticipate technological progress and our world today.
There is no legislation or regulation that could have prevented this shooting.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see sensible gun control that would include better background checks, registration, etc. and I have no problem with authorities working to prevent terror attacks (some of the worst of which lately did not involve firearms) and watch-lists. History going back thousands of years is replete with examples of political assassination and terrorism. Some of the worst mass killings in modern times have been done in places with strict gun control. There is now a growing trend among liberals and more middle-class minorities to arm-up. The NRA and the gun industry can't lose, and it has vast political clout to be sure it doesn't.
A basic problem, unlikely to change, is that the Founding Fathers included the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, something that better fit their times but did not anticipate technological progress and our world today.
1
Imagine if the NRA could no longer bribe and threaten to knee-cap politicians who didn't vote for every law on the gun manufacturers' wish lists to sell more guns.
Then maybe we could level the playing field a bit and put the people, moral judgment, and common sense back into being reasonable about who should own guns and who should not.
Then the NRA could go back to being a sports organization, as it once was, instead of an organization that actively lobbies and bribes politicians to increase the homicide, suicide, and maiming rates in this country. It's a win-win!
Solution: Have public financing of political campaigns--like the civilized, advanced countries in the world, and end Citizens United and all those laws that allow wealthy donors and powerful corporations to buy themselves politicians to do their bidding. That would go a long way to Making America Great--Again
Then maybe we could level the playing field a bit and put the people, moral judgment, and common sense back into being reasonable about who should own guns and who should not.
Then the NRA could go back to being a sports organization, as it once was, instead of an organization that actively lobbies and bribes politicians to increase the homicide, suicide, and maiming rates in this country. It's a win-win!
Solution: Have public financing of political campaigns--like the civilized, advanced countries in the world, and end Citizens United and all those laws that allow wealthy donors and powerful corporations to buy themselves politicians to do their bidding. That would go a long way to Making America Great--Again
Not to sound cynical, but the only reason this story has gotten so much mileage, is because this kind of a shooting is not supposed to happen to THEM.
After all, these were the Golden Gods from Capitol Hill playing America's favorite pastime...and they were in a "good area".
Of course the same thing can't be said for the South Side of Chicago, or any other city that is constantly plagued by crime and gun violence, and where daily shootings are part of the norm.
America is a violent country.
No one should be surprised that this has happened.
And no one should be surprised that after a few days all the noise will die down, and any thoughts of effecting more stringent gun-control laws will be a thing of the past.
But before that happens, call your State representative, and make your voice heard.
U.S. Capitol Main Switchboard: (202) 224 3121
And don't be afraid to play ball.
After all, these were the Golden Gods from Capitol Hill playing America's favorite pastime...and they were in a "good area".
Of course the same thing can't be said for the South Side of Chicago, or any other city that is constantly plagued by crime and gun violence, and where daily shootings are part of the norm.
America is a violent country.
No one should be surprised that this has happened.
And no one should be surprised that after a few days all the noise will die down, and any thoughts of effecting more stringent gun-control laws will be a thing of the past.
But before that happens, call your State representative, and make your voice heard.
U.S. Capitol Main Switchboard: (202) 224 3121
And don't be afraid to play ball.
“Write a letter. Call your representative. Hold a meeting.”
Very good idea -- Call you congressman and urge them to support the repeal of all anti constitutional laws that inhibit or infringe on the freedom of citizens to exercise their Second Amendment Rights.
Very good idea -- Call you congressman and urge them to support the repeal of all anti constitutional laws that inhibit or infringe on the freedom of citizens to exercise their Second Amendment Rights.
Will the day come when we turn to our grandchildren and say, "I remember when we went to the ballgame and no one had a gun!"?
That seems to be our trajectory right now. Whatever else we may believe, we must acknowledge that ours is a violent society, volatile, emotional, unguarded by strong norms. So how do we de-escalate? What measures, based on evidence, will help solve this grave problem? Schoolchildren, bible study groups, and legislators are all targets of unbalanced people; how do we mitigate the damage violent people can do, short of government issued firearms for every man woman and child?
That seems to be our trajectory right now. Whatever else we may believe, we must acknowledge that ours is a violent society, volatile, emotional, unguarded by strong norms. So how do we de-escalate? What measures, based on evidence, will help solve this grave problem? Schoolchildren, bible study groups, and legislators are all targets of unbalanced people; how do we mitigate the damage violent people can do, short of government issued firearms for every man woman and child?
1
Politicians and the judiciary enjoy a cocoon of safety at their workplaces that the rest of us don't. Welcome to the world the rest of us live in.
Carnage was not worse yesterday because one Congressman enjoyed the protection of several Capitol Hill police officers. The victims at the UPS had no armed escort. Indeed 99.999 % of us can never afford such an escort. The right's response is that we should all pack firearms all the time in all places. A nightmare world, but I suppose a just outcome here in America in which gun rights are valued above all.
107
It's an America in which gun rights are valued over human life. Those much vaunted Second Amendment rights were written at a different time and different society. Its advocates ignore the clause "a well-regulated militia." I would urge everyone to take Gail's words to heart. Keep demanding that reasonable gun laws be implemented. IF we can regulate cars we should be able to regulate guns.
No, gun rights are a red herring, it is gun sales are valued above all.
A year ago yesterday the NYTimes carried this comparison of the US and other countries, much to our disadvantage. Can be stop being in hock to NRA and marketing?
"Compare These Gun Death Rates: The U.S. Is in a Different World" https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-...
I feel bullied by gun people. Every time I drive I worry about roadrage, it's all too common. The abused women at risk, the accidents, the children, the braggarts. Everyone gets angry sometimes. You can't tell me a gun helps with that.
And terr'ists? They have published about how easy it is to get a gun in the good ole US of A in their literature. Fact!
What is wrong with us? We all want to be safe, and owning high-powered multiple-shot killing machines is not helping.
Tragic!
Gail's call to ***action*** is super important.
"Compare These Gun Death Rates: The U.S. Is in a Different World" https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-...
I feel bullied by gun people. Every time I drive I worry about roadrage, it's all too common. The abused women at risk, the accidents, the children, the braggarts. Everyone gets angry sometimes. You can't tell me a gun helps with that.
And terr'ists? They have published about how easy it is to get a gun in the good ole US of A in their literature. Fact!
What is wrong with us? We all want to be safe, and owning high-powered multiple-shot killing machines is not helping.
Tragic!
Gail's call to ***action*** is super important.
7
For in-depth reporting on the NRA evolving into marketing the hair-trigger life, here:
"Making a Killing: The business and politics of selling guns"
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/27/after-orlando-examining-the...
No matter you share my appalled recognition of our ginned-up fear and hatred, you will find reality-based revelations that show the NRA is worse than you thought, and its dupes more gullible.
"Making a Killing: The business and politics of selling guns"
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/06/27/after-orlando-examining-the...
No matter you share my appalled recognition of our ginned-up fear and hatred, you will find reality-based revelations that show the NRA is worse than you thought, and its dupes more gullible.
This is the real American carnage. But you cannot just tell Americans that they can completely rely on the government for their family's defense. The DIY culture here is strong, as is the history of gun ownership. So, progress is going to be slow. First, the words 'gun control' should not be used by liberals any more. It has to be called 'gun safety' or 'gun responsibility'. Second, liberals should join the NRA to moderate the organization. Third, if the ultimate goal is perceived to be zero civilian gun ownership, even common-sense legislation such as more effective background checks will not pass. So nominate more moderate gun-familiar Democrats (e.g. Jason Kander) who have a strong position to argue from.
3
Guns were meant for hunting, they say. We humans like to hunt each other.
1
Would the response - measured anguish, even from the tweeter-in-chief - have been the same if the shooter was not a 66-year-old white man?
Imagine the response if the shooter was found to be a minority of almost any kind.
That is what is chilling to me - that is the bullet we all dodged yesterday.
Imagine the response if the shooter was found to be a minority of almost any kind.
That is what is chilling to me - that is the bullet we all dodged yesterday.
11
Wondering when GOP will make it a requirement that all people carry guns. For safety of course.
5
Just yesterday they were to consider a bill making it easier to purchase silencers but it was cancelled for some reason... begs the question: if guns are so necessary for personal safety, why the need for a silencer if your intentions are pure?
I'm surprised they don't want to just make them a freebie at the checkout.
I'm surprised they don't want to just make them a freebie at the checkout.
1
We can talk, theorize and hope until we are blue in the face, but nothing will ever change as long as the NRA exists, period, end of story.
6
well... if we mandate insurance for gun owners, the premiums would be lower if they take a safety course. NRA started out teaching new soldiers how to handle a gun. They'd make a killing selling training and insurance. It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.
Many of us have called, written letters and e-mails. . .nothing changes. This is really about the majority political party in Congress being unwilling to do anything that turns the torrent of NRA money to them into a trickle. Those of us who have tried to push legislators toward changing gun control laws are tired of being Sisyphus against the odds of selfish self-interests. There is no fight to continue.
6
Yes, it's tiring. Take some time out. (I do.) Then come back and "keep fighting. This is a righteous cause" indeed.
1
The thing that struck me about Paul Ryan's "one family" comment was the part about an "attack on one of us is an attack on all of us." He meant members of Congress. If only he'd spoken about the never ending carnage caused by guns. Every attack on children and other innocents is truly an attack on all Americans
10
That's craven political self-interest for ya. OTOH, maybe there's hope for gun control after all... The shoe's on the other foot now. Maybe.
The violence of yesterday is no one's fault other than the deranged man who held the weapon and used it for evil means. Blaming "the other side" is yet another indicator of how far down we have fallen as a nation.
This could be an occasion to re-examine our nation's political climate, There can be little doubt that overheated, evil vs. good attacks spill over into violence in some polluted minds.
One of the best steps would be for people in the House of Representatives to get to know each other across party lines. We have come to the point where Republicans see Democrats not as people of principle and decency but as enemies. This happens, in part, because a culture of opposition, walls, have been built around the two political parties.
The us vs. them attitudes are re-enforced by the fact that most House members view their job these days as part time. They pride themselves on leaving their families behind in the home district as a symbol that they, the members, aren't corrupted by the evils of the nation's capital. This, in turn, leads to flying back and forth all the time, every week for most members. Many are in Washington consistently only one full day and two half days a week. This practice was started back when Gingrich and the Republicans achieved a majority in the House in 1996 and has continued to this day.
What kind of job do you take where you hate where the work place is located? The practice of not residing in the capital needs to be stopped.
This could be an occasion to re-examine our nation's political climate, There can be little doubt that overheated, evil vs. good attacks spill over into violence in some polluted minds.
One of the best steps would be for people in the House of Representatives to get to know each other across party lines. We have come to the point where Republicans see Democrats not as people of principle and decency but as enemies. This happens, in part, because a culture of opposition, walls, have been built around the two political parties.
The us vs. them attitudes are re-enforced by the fact that most House members view their job these days as part time. They pride themselves on leaving their families behind in the home district as a symbol that they, the members, aren't corrupted by the evils of the nation's capital. This, in turn, leads to flying back and forth all the time, every week for most members. Many are in Washington consistently only one full day and two half days a week. This practice was started back when Gingrich and the Republicans achieved a majority in the House in 1996 and has continued to this day.
What kind of job do you take where you hate where the work place is located? The practice of not residing in the capital needs to be stopped.
8
There will be more mass shootings because there are too many guns available for anyone. What will it take for sensible gun laws to be passed?
5
In Alliance, Ohio, today, the headlines are about a man arrested for shooting five people in the last 24 hours before his arrest.
But that is only a local story.
But that is only a local story.
13
Like our for profit medical system that looks to make money by treating the symptom and not curing the disease, Republicans will not look to cure the cause of violence, but instead will offer a solution to the symptom, which is to arm every citizen in the country, so he or she can defend him or herself. That's the only way the gun industry can make enough profits to keep the politicians in its pockets.
12
I'm in favor of gun control, but also the rule of law. The only lasting solution is a constitutional amendment, which seems unlikely.
4
Posting on New York Times articles has its value, but it is not action. Gail Collins ended her article with a call to action. Make the phone call. Write the letter. It's so easy. I just called Mitch McConnell's office and, unbelievably, they answered. That means there are just not enough people calling.
14
If the anti-gun people would limit their opposition to semi-automatic guns, substituting a limit on clip size for these guns I am sure that hunters would drop their opposition.
2
Many hunters agree with the need for sensible gun restrictions. So what do we get instead?:
In February, the Senate voted to nullify part of a gun control bill that keeps severely mentally ill people from buying guns. Trump signed the bill, undoing an Obama-era regulation that had made it more difficult for people with mental illness to buy guns.
In February, the Senate voted to nullify part of a gun control bill that keeps severely mentally ill people from buying guns. Trump signed the bill, undoing an Obama-era regulation that had made it more difficult for people with mental illness to buy guns.
" if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform, it’s not likely that the wounding of several adults in Virginia will do the trick."
Maybe, but there's a big difference: This actually, perhaps for the first time, had a direct effect on some of the very people in a position to do something about the laws, or lack thereof, in this country.
There's nothing quite like the prospect of ones own house burning down to clarify the reason for and the value of the fire department.
Maybe, but there's a big difference: This actually, perhaps for the first time, had a direct effect on some of the very people in a position to do something about the laws, or lack thereof, in this country.
There's nothing quite like the prospect of ones own house burning down to clarify the reason for and the value of the fire department.
21
This guy was from Illinois, which has universal background checks, and the rifle he used wouldn't have been affected by either an "assault weapon" ban or a magazine limit. Additionally, the other shooting you mentioned was in California, which has pretty much everything your side asks for, and that didn't help. Nationalizing ineffective state laws won't do any good, even if it were feasible.
3
It's more than sad when a commenter has to use the words "your side." We all should be on the same side when it comes to stopping gun violence.
So...don't have gun laws then?
A very right-wing politician where I live recently supported building a development the residents surrounding it didn't want on the grounds that the developer might have legal grounds to sue if he were rejected. Interestingly, I don't think he saw that the argument his side makes on guns is the exact opposite of his point.
2
I have a hard time believing anyone is shocked by this. Saddened? Certainly, but shocked? How could anyone be shocked given the vitriol and acrimony?
13
Really? Literally attempted assassination of more than two dozen elected officials at once isn't a shocking new low in America?
2
A new low, given the other assassinations over the years? No. Given the language spewed against Obama for the last eight by the Ted Nugents of the world? No. Frankly, more shocking is that it doesn't happen more often.
1
Thanks for putting the emphasis where it belongs: guns.
The Governor of Virginia spoke to this issue, but it was the only voice I heard assigning the blame to guns and their easy availability. The NRA wins again.
The Governor of Virginia spoke to this issue, but it was the only voice I heard assigning the blame to guns and their easy availability. The NRA wins again.
15
I could call my representatives and/or write, and believe me, I have. But I live in Alabama. It is largely an exercise in futility, particularly when Senator Shelby featured a video of himself carrying a gun in his campaign ads.
14
Interesting that the women have a bipartisan softball team whereas the men are separated by party. If there is little hope that this incident will lead to some common sense gun control, maybe the takeaway can be that the men should also have bipartisan teams rather than competing on the baseball diamond as well as on the Senate floor. It may be a baby step forward to working with the other party.
12
I think the women have a bipartisan softball team because there aren't enough women in the House and Senate to field two distinct teams. While I agree a bipartisan approach to the men's game is a good idea, an even better idea is to elect more women to the House and Senate.
Another idea - how about co-ed teams? Now there's a concept!
Another idea - how about co-ed teams? Now there's a concept!
If guns are allowed in schools, colleges, churches, hospitals, workplaces, airplanes, ..., why aren't they allowed in the workplaces of legislators, both federal and state level? Double standards?
23
... and why aren't they allowed at NRA meetings?
3
Double standards in politics? Pshaw!
2
Is this sarcasm?
But we’ll keep trying. To start, we need to come together on a consensus that there’s something wrong with a country in which an average of 93 people are killed with guns every day, in which gun homicides are so common that news reports frequently don’t bother to mention how the murderer obtained his weapon, and in which even multiple shootings often don’t make the national news unless there’s some suggestion the crime might be related to terrorism.
Gail, I wish we were "trying" but the evidence is no not at all really. By the statistics, increased frequency, and more hatred in politics the evidence is the NRA has won, and the only answer viewed viable in our society is more guns and more hatred. Were that we could find the Bipartisan center where solutions could be worked out, and all in society would be better for that. However, all signs point to more money in politics and less democracy where the people truly lose and know that is happening. The National Popular Vote NPV needs to happen and replace the Electoral College in all states and more emphasis on the individual vote rather than money as power. Then truly democracy will be in charge rather than lawyers, guns and money.
Gail, I wish we were "trying" but the evidence is no not at all really. By the statistics, increased frequency, and more hatred in politics the evidence is the NRA has won, and the only answer viewed viable in our society is more guns and more hatred. Were that we could find the Bipartisan center where solutions could be worked out, and all in society would be better for that. However, all signs point to more money in politics and less democracy where the people truly lose and know that is happening. The National Popular Vote NPV needs to happen and replace the Electoral College in all states and more emphasis on the individual vote rather than money as power. Then truly democracy will be in charge rather than lawyers, guns and money.
7
And, for God's sake, NBC and Andy Lack, don't broadcast that heinous Megan Kelly-Alex Jones interview Sunday.
For God's sake.
For God's sake.
12
Yesterday's New York Times reported that Republican Congressmen are calling for looser gun laws so that people can defend themselves in these attacks. But aren't Virginia gun laws loose enough already? What prevented the ball players from carrying a weapon?
For complete protection, every citizen and Congressman would have to be armed and ready to draw 100% of the time. But a shooter can select his targets, venue and time of attack, and only has to be armed when he takes the shot.
Consider the absurdity of the Republican arguments. Carry a .45 on the pitcher's mound? Sprint with a Magnum while stealing second base? Put a gun in a baseball mitt while covering center field?
Of course, the deaths of 20 children in Newtown didn't prompt Congress to act, as Republicans continue their craven support of the NRA. But now, Congressmen themselves are victims of the same violence which their policies inflict upon the rest of us. Let's see if anything changes.
For complete protection, every citizen and Congressman would have to be armed and ready to draw 100% of the time. But a shooter can select his targets, venue and time of attack, and only has to be armed when he takes the shot.
Consider the absurdity of the Republican arguments. Carry a .45 on the pitcher's mound? Sprint with a Magnum while stealing second base? Put a gun in a baseball mitt while covering center field?
Of course, the deaths of 20 children in Newtown didn't prompt Congress to act, as Republicans continue their craven support of the NRA. But now, Congressmen themselves are victims of the same violence which their policies inflict upon the rest of us. Let's see if anything changes.
22
And don't you dare to argue with an Umpire's call........
The sheer statistically inflated and rhetorically inflated evidence about terrorism perpetrated by people who call themselves Muslims is the right's answer to its rhetoric constantly diminishing the huge numbers of people killed with guns in this country, every day, every week and every year. To use a phrase of your colleague, Charles Blow, it is an attempt to hide the bullet, and a very successful one.
3
“ 'We are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good,' said Donald Trump."
"Stronger together"--wasn't that Hillary Clinton's campaign slogan?
"Stronger together"--wasn't that Hillary Clinton's campaign slogan?
29
Another investigation?
Yes. It certainly was. We must not forget.
2
How low the bar is when we say he restrained himself after a shooting ...
12
The answer is always: MORE GUNS! Yeah, that's the ticket. More guns.
12
the answer is more mental hospitals and less biased hated from the media towards a lawfully elected POTUS
1
Thank you, Gail!
8
Our culture of violence is an incubator encouraging every unstable nut job to evolve from sick revenge fantasies to deadly action. Add how easy it is for the unstable to obtain firepower unimaginable by the authors of our Constitution. Recipe for disaster that plays out every day.
9
Reps kill two laws: ban military weapons and keep mentally ill from guns. Either of these would have potentially stopped the shooting.
15
As Collins mentioned, a few hours afterwards 4 people were shot and killed at a UPS facility in San Francisco. Didn't even make the front page of the east coast papers. Another day, another couple of mass shootings. This is the new normal.
17
Politics aside, if Gotham can drastically reduce its gun violence to historic lows, why can't Chicago, Los Angeles, San Antonio, St, Louis, Laredo, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Charlotte?
Living in Houston, its not the open carry or stereotypical 'Gun Culture' the rest of the country has about the state, no, its crime and drugs - gang violence. There are always going to be those on the fringe of society; the square pegs that doesn't fit in the round holes - Hinkley, Lanza, McVeigh, et al. whose reasons are inexplicable and without RATIONAL thought or reason, just like ISIL's perversion of Islam.
Moving forward, as well intended as limits on gun magazines, background checks, eliminating the gun loopholes, limits on the number of gun purchases may be those efforts it will be tantamount to waiting for global warming to evaporate the oceans There are just too many guns already in circulation and crafty ways to modify the new ones.
Living in Houston, its not the open carry or stereotypical 'Gun Culture' the rest of the country has about the state, no, its crime and drugs - gang violence. There are always going to be those on the fringe of society; the square pegs that doesn't fit in the round holes - Hinkley, Lanza, McVeigh, et al. whose reasons are inexplicable and without RATIONAL thought or reason, just like ISIL's perversion of Islam.
Moving forward, as well intended as limits on gun magazines, background checks, eliminating the gun loopholes, limits on the number of gun purchases may be those efforts it will be tantamount to waiting for global warming to evaporate the oceans There are just too many guns already in circulation and crafty ways to modify the new ones.
those cities all have democrat mayors
1
Hwy 59/I-69 (the NAFTA Super Highway) and I-35 terminate in the U.S. in Laredo; I-35 passes through San Antonio, Austin and Dallas; Hwy 59/I-69 proceeds up the Gulf Coast, passes north through Houston, east Texas about 180 miles before splitting, I-69 going east before heading north and Hwy 59 continuing NE to Texarkana.
These are MAJOR drug corridors funneling drugs throughout the country. I-10 goes from the Atlantic to the Pacific and passes through both Houston and San Antonio. Stemming the drug flow is should NOT be ideological...
These are MAJOR drug corridors funneling drugs throughout the country. I-10 goes from the Atlantic to the Pacific and passes through both Houston and San Antonio. Stemming the drug flow is should NOT be ideological...
2
Glad everyone is being reflective, shaking hands, and playing ball so to speak.
Now DO something about it. Hint: these ubiquitous automatic weapons aren't for squirrel and every "nut" can get one.
Now DO something about it. Hint: these ubiquitous automatic weapons aren't for squirrel and every "nut" can get one.
12
Excuse the cynicism, but when the gun smoke settles, the Republicans will use the threat of violence to further curtail town hall meetings.
20
We can do lots of things, but they won't work. With the NRA in existence we are doomed, plain and simple, as Mr. Comey would say.
12
Yea, let's pass a law so criminal humans not obeying the law can't get guns.
I consider we might be better off paying attention to why so many people are both angry and consider few options for results.
Who's benefiting most from what and at who's expense? Where's the wealth curve holding at, why and at what cost?
I consider we might be better off paying attention to why so many people are both angry and consider few options for results.
Who's benefiting most from what and at who's expense? Where's the wealth curve holding at, why and at what cost?
Gun deaths are like the consequences of smoking, something we put up with. There will be no gun laws. A lot of this is to do with the lack of reasoning on the Right, that tries to offer meager apologies for Donald Trump. If you can believe it, this man is the leader of the Republican Party. Republicans apply the same lack of reasoning to gun laws.
The Virginia shooting is horrible, but there is no apology for Trump and his mass-hypnotized followers. Trump is still the egomaniacal fascist lunatic that he is; saying something considerate about this despicable act doesn't absolve Trump from his misdeeds.
With Trump it's "good cop, bad cop". He beats people up, then, when he gets a chance to say something compassionate, it relieves the stressful intimidation that Trump invokes on people of lesser minds. One either adopts a thoughtless, unconditional acceptance of Trump's behavior, or one wants to impeach him. So far only 35% of the population backs Trump's recalcitrance.
Because Trump can't seem to get major bills through congress, he'll have no success with a gun bill anyway. Would you want this man representing *your* bill? But of course Trump won't back gun restrictions.
And wouldn't it be nice to have someone in the White House who had the intellectual capability to come up with a strategy to diminish gun violence? It's a very, very, hard problem, which means that Trump supporters don't have the intellectual machinery to confront it.
The Virginia shooting is horrible, but there is no apology for Trump and his mass-hypnotized followers. Trump is still the egomaniacal fascist lunatic that he is; saying something considerate about this despicable act doesn't absolve Trump from his misdeeds.
With Trump it's "good cop, bad cop". He beats people up, then, when he gets a chance to say something compassionate, it relieves the stressful intimidation that Trump invokes on people of lesser minds. One either adopts a thoughtless, unconditional acceptance of Trump's behavior, or one wants to impeach him. So far only 35% of the population backs Trump's recalcitrance.
Because Trump can't seem to get major bills through congress, he'll have no success with a gun bill anyway. Would you want this man representing *your* bill? But of course Trump won't back gun restrictions.
And wouldn't it be nice to have someone in the White House who had the intellectual capability to come up with a strategy to diminish gun violence? It's a very, very, hard problem, which means that Trump supporters don't have the intellectual machinery to confront it.
13
There has been a lot of talk about gun control coming from the left since this horrific attack on Republicans yesterday but obviously James Hodgkinson was not a follower. He was a left-wing hater of President Trump and all things Republican. He took direct aim at them and thank good goodness there were security forces present to thwart off more attacks and save countless lives. It would have been far worse if these two officers had not had guns to stop more violence and perhaps prevent deadly attacks.
This man was mentally disturbed but the political hatred coming about since this election has been far worse then anything we have ever seen in the past. We have seen hateful comments and gestures directed toward President Trump and this is inexcusable. You do not have to like him but the level of civil discourse has been atrocious. You can not blame either party for the attack yesterday but it does not help our society when there is vitriol at such high levels. It is not healthy for our country and the media is partly to blame. They have aided this hatred by daily attacks on President Trump and there was never the level of contempt for President Obama as we are seeing now. Our country needs to heal and one of the ways to do this is to stop this hate speech and communicate in a more civil manner. Our country will thank us for this and be a better and safer place to live. Let's begin today.
This man was mentally disturbed but the political hatred coming about since this election has been far worse then anything we have ever seen in the past. We have seen hateful comments and gestures directed toward President Trump and this is inexcusable. You do not have to like him but the level of civil discourse has been atrocious. You can not blame either party for the attack yesterday but it does not help our society when there is vitriol at such high levels. It is not healthy for our country and the media is partly to blame. They have aided this hatred by daily attacks on President Trump and there was never the level of contempt for President Obama as we are seeing now. Our country needs to heal and one of the ways to do this is to stop this hate speech and communicate in a more civil manner. Our country will thank us for this and be a better and safer place to live. Let's begin today.
18
"There was never the level of contempt for President Obama as we are seeing now." Oh, yes, there was.
28
"Far worse than anything we have seen in the past"? I haven't forgotten Sarah Palin drawing a target on Gabby Giffords' district map, and encouraging her followers, "Don't retreat - RELOAD!"
"There was never the level contempt for President Obama that we are seeing now"?? I remember the drawings of BHO as a monkey, and the challenges to his legitimacy as president, and the "birthers", led by Trump.
"There was never the level contempt for President Obama that we are seeing now"?? I remember the drawings of BHO as a monkey, and the challenges to his legitimacy as president, and the "birthers", led by Trump.
29
@WMK: The "daily attacks" on Trump in the media are called news reports --about his erratic behavior on social media, the ongoing wheeling and dealing of his family since he took office, the chaotic hiring and firing of staff, the cutting of funds for essential human and environmental services, and the investigations into a potentially illegal and treasonous interference with the presidential election.
12
Thank you, Ms. Collins, for using the word aggrieved instead of disgruntled in your column today. A person who has a problem, or acts out in any way, is always described as disgruntled, when in many cases they are aggrieved. There is a difference.
6
The way to get rid of Republican lawmakers -- who are good guys, yeah, but they vote for harmful legislation -- is to vote them out of office.
27
Let me see if I heard this correctly : according to the NRA we need more guns to protect ourselves from guns. Have I got that right ?
30
Nick, you're close. We need to BUY more guns to protect ourselves from guns we've already bought.
3
Point taken, and the gunman was stopped by a gun not a tree.
Two good guys with guns stopped the attack. If guns aren't the answer to guns, what is the answer?
What do you do about the millions of guns currently on the street? Or the ones that will be coming out of 3D printers?
The writer accepts the violent language...been going on for years...so...but gun laws are the problem?
The writer accepts the violent language...been going on for years...so...but gun laws are the problem?
2
Yes. they are the problem. There aren't enough of them.
5
Ask yourself, gailmd, how do we explain the immense gap between the USA and the other advanced nations on per capita gun violence?
1
Yes, the gun laws are the problem. The language is *a* problem, but words don't kill people. Bullets kill people. Think of it this way: With nasty language and no guns, it's unpleasant and unproductive and unworthy of American ideals, but everybody gets to go home at the end of the day. Add the guns, and you've introduced danger. Yes, vitriol is bad, and it has a role inciting the violence, but common sense and dozens of studies show that more guns = more deaths, and stricter gun laws reduce the number of guns around even if you can't eliminate black market purchases and so on. So yes, the gun laws are the problem.
It would be worth noting that Senator Gillibrand highlights why gun control has failed to gain much traction in Congress.
When she was a congresswoman from an upstate New York district, she was largely opposed to most gun control legislation. When she was asked about this when she was appointed to fill Hillary Clinton's senate seat, she said she was unaware of how widespread gun violence was in cities in the state and that now that she was she would support such legislation.
As long as we have members of Congress like Gillibrand who place being reelected before the health and safety of the inhabitants of this country, we are going to continue to kill each other in numbers unmatched in any other industrialized countries.
As to the baseball aspects, its worth noting that when Jackie Robinson first came to the major leagues, he received death threats that there would be people with rifles in the stands at stadiums to shoot him if he played. The descendants of those bigots are the alt right group members who are the biggest supporters of Donald Trump and the GOP.
When she was a congresswoman from an upstate New York district, she was largely opposed to most gun control legislation. When she was asked about this when she was appointed to fill Hillary Clinton's senate seat, she said she was unaware of how widespread gun violence was in cities in the state and that now that she was she would support such legislation.
As long as we have members of Congress like Gillibrand who place being reelected before the health and safety of the inhabitants of this country, we are going to continue to kill each other in numbers unmatched in any other industrialized countries.
As to the baseball aspects, its worth noting that when Jackie Robinson first came to the major leagues, he received death threats that there would be people with rifles in the stands at stadiums to shoot him if he played. The descendants of those bigots are the alt right group members who are the biggest supporters of Donald Trump and the GOP.
12
Sandy Hook was a tragedy that numbed me from gun violence. When the politicians had no courage to stand up to NRA and stand next to the parents of those dead children, I knew that nothing would change. When I heard one of the politicians describing how they were sitting ducks out in the field, my immediate response was not how terrible that was. I wondered if he and all of those politicians now know how those little children felt, trapped in their own school and being shot. Are the Republicans going to do something now that their own kind was shot?
1
This is America, this is not news, and if it were not a congressman who had been hit, it would not have been on Page 1. This is who we are as Americans.
Would this particular incident have happened if the election had turned out differently? Maybe yes, maybe no. But let's not forget the threats that were made, and Mr. Trump's suggestions about the "2nd Amendment people", late in the campaign when a different outcome looked probable. The current occupant of the White House was not-so-subtly advocating actions like this as a candidate. I, for one, refuse to believe that those who advocate unlimited access to firearms can be taken seriously now as they wring their hands and clutch their pearls over an act of political violence such as their Dear Leader was himself advocating as a candidate.
Would this particular incident have happened if the election had turned out differently? Maybe yes, maybe no. But let's not forget the threats that were made, and Mr. Trump's suggestions about the "2nd Amendment people", late in the campaign when a different outcome looked probable. The current occupant of the White House was not-so-subtly advocating actions like this as a candidate. I, for one, refuse to believe that those who advocate unlimited access to firearms can be taken seriously now as they wring their hands and clutch their pearls over an act of political violence such as their Dear Leader was himself advocating as a candidate.
22
Join Moms Demand Action. They are a professional, well-oiled machine with excellent organization and chapters across the country. Don't post another meme to Facebook, join a group and go to the meetings. https://momsdemandaction.org/
6
It is fascinating to read NYT comments sections on this and then read the same in the WSJ. I know that the Journal is more liberal as to which comments they show, but, the divide is striking. A fair summary of thousands of the comments would be that Democrats are becoming increasingly violent and deranged. Even in a tragedy such as this, it seems difficult to find some agreement.
1
I had an odd reaction to the shooting and aftermath - of course I deplore violence and am glad that no one except the gunman was killed - but I expected a different kind of response from the Republicans. Something more political and angry, not this "Coming together" message. The upshot to me is that they are actually shaken and personally frightened, maybe because for the first time it looks like the white, middle-American gun nuts are coming after them too.
12
Bingo
The right-wing is finally discovering that when the shoe's on the other foot, it hurts.
1
A few weeks ago I visited friends in the Dallas-Ft Worth area for ten days. In that time it seemed every day another part of the urban area was shut down because of gun incidents and warnings and alerts went out. Yes people were shot.
Texas has open carry.
I grew up in rural east Texas when pickups had rifles and shotguns in the back window. Guns were feared and respected and rarely needed.
There is now absolutely no reason to have an armed populace. Like mentioned in these comments, even the 'Wild West' lawman knew that people bearing arms was not a good idea.
Where this country ever got the misguided idea that if everybody is carrying an unforgiving weapon that lives will be saved is ridiculous. The much quoted, shaggy old Second Amendment was necessary at the time it was written and it is not now.
A Right indeed!
Texas has open carry.
I grew up in rural east Texas when pickups had rifles and shotguns in the back window. Guns were feared and respected and rarely needed.
There is now absolutely no reason to have an armed populace. Like mentioned in these comments, even the 'Wild West' lawman knew that people bearing arms was not a good idea.
Where this country ever got the misguided idea that if everybody is carrying an unforgiving weapon that lives will be saved is ridiculous. The much quoted, shaggy old Second Amendment was necessary at the time it was written and it is not now.
A Right indeed!
15
Fellow Texan Dinah, you ask where did this misguided idea about "all armed all the time" came from. NRA. NRA. NRA. Plain and simple. We need to keep our eyes on another misguider called ALEC. Huge money + plutocratic goals+ gullible and under-informed public = shooting ourselves in our feet.
Perhaps it is time for a 50 /50. compromise between the NRA and gun control advocates.
Let each side lay out its ideal solution and then apply them NRA rules for women and the gun control advocate rules for men.
Let each side lay out its ideal solution and then apply them NRA rules for women and the gun control advocate rules for men.
7
No 50/50. 100/0 No guns.
1
"...if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform, it’s not likely that the wounding of several adults in Virginia will do the trick"
Is it too much to hope that maybe BECAUSE the victims were older whites (who are in a position to do something about it), this incident might be the one to bring about change?
To quote another victim of gun violence, "You may say I'm a dreamer..."
Is it too much to hope that maybe BECAUSE the victims were older whites (who are in a position to do something about it), this incident might be the one to bring about change?
To quote another victim of gun violence, "You may say I'm a dreamer..."
4
Thank you for the encouragement. Unfortunately, the people who vote based on a candidate's position on gun regulations want fewer, not more gun restrictions. Every time former President Obama sought to impose reasonable new gun restrictions, every time a mass shooting dominates the news, gun sales increase dramatically. It is ordinary people of all demographic groups and political persuasions, not the NRA, who are buying those guns. Americans love their guns more than they love their children, thousands of whom are killed by guns each year. Americans love their guns more than they love their police, whose work is made so much more dangerous by the ready availability of guns.
Add to that the promotion of violence by right-wing radio and unfortunately now by the President of the United States, along with the partisan viciousness in our politics, and you have a toxic mix. This country needs a sea change in attitude.
Add to that the promotion of violence by right-wing radio and unfortunately now by the President of the United States, along with the partisan viciousness in our politics, and you have a toxic mix. This country needs a sea change in attitude.
9
A few days ago, when the weapons were a car and a knife, the President said "at least we aren't talking about gun control". If the deranged liberal had used those weapons instead of a gun, the police would surely have prevented injury to anyone. We are just lucky the attack was not carried out by a professional ISIS hit team, who are able to freely perfect their capabilities and buy the most lethal weapons. In Europe, we have seen weapons jam and terrorists who are not seasoned shooters. They have to resort to vehicles there. In the US, we are better at integrating and rewarding our newly arrived and second generation immigrants. But when they break, they break over cultural issues such as gays (Orlando) or workplace pressure, and do some horrific damage with guns.
In our war happy culture and having a volunteer army, it's easy to understand why we will never have gun control.
2
This column, and the commenters here, miss the point, perhaps intentionally so. They are, not surprisingly, trying to strip the political animus from this violence. Not unlike the way the Left tries to pretend that Islamist gunmen (e.g., Ft. Hood, Orlando, San Bernardino) had no religious motivation. The gunman was a left wing radical. He asked whether the ballplayers were Republicans or Democrats right before he shot them. This is obviously political terror. I support gun control, but trying to cast this as mere "gun violence" is like pretending Dylan Roof had no racist animus. Deal with it, liberals......
1
Did Scalese or any of his Republican "family" EVER vote for a single gun control measure-- even after Giffords was shot, even after Newtown, even though 93 Americans are killed by gun violence every day and even though the majority of Americans support such a measure?
16
Five shot is a slow weekend in Chicago. Of course, these are members of the Important People, the others in the Windy City are mostly the poor and of course get no coverage whatsoever - their lives are expendable.
12
With friends like the NRA-loving GOP, we don't need terrorists.
The 2nd Amendment protects our rights to muskets. Not assault weapons. Not clips with a zillion rounds. Not flame throwers either.
The 2nd Amendment's purpose was to permit people to form militias, arm themselves, and oppose an outside force. It was not to play target practice with fellow countrymen with weapons made for the insanity of war.
I agree with comments here: nothing will change. If Sandy Hook slaughter of innocent children didn't change GOP fixation on guns, nothing will.
The 2nd Amendment protects our rights to muskets. Not assault weapons. Not clips with a zillion rounds. Not flame throwers either.
The 2nd Amendment's purpose was to permit people to form militias, arm themselves, and oppose an outside force. It was not to play target practice with fellow countrymen with weapons made for the insanity of war.
I agree with comments here: nothing will change. If Sandy Hook slaughter of innocent children didn't change GOP fixation on guns, nothing will.
15
How much you want to bet the next bill in Congress will be to allow all of them to open carry?
4
It seems to me that an administration that wishes to ban all Muslims from entering the US out of concerns for our safety ought to also be in favor of common sense gun legislation. But they are not.
These two issues are exactly the same.
Unfortunately, I notice that when these kinds of tragedies occur, white people are called "shooters." Those with skin of a darker hue are called "terrorists."
Also we reap what we sow. If one brags that they could shoot a gun down Fifth Avenue with impunity, is it surprising when it actually happens?
These two issues are exactly the same.
Unfortunately, I notice that when these kinds of tragedies occur, white people are called "shooters." Those with skin of a darker hue are called "terrorists."
Also we reap what we sow. If one brags that they could shoot a gun down Fifth Avenue with impunity, is it surprising when it actually happens?
Demand an ammunition tax that makes big bullets that fit into large magazines prohibitively expensive.
2
“If she (Hillary) gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.” --Donald Trump.
So whose 'divisive rhetoric' should I blame for violence directed at political figures?
So whose 'divisive rhetoric' should I blame for violence directed at political figures?
17
Ms. Collins, you end your column with a call to action. All well and good but i must say that those actions have been taken by innumerable citizens over the years to little or no effect. The NRA owns the legislatures of many states and many, if not most, Congressmen. The answer here is to eliminate the influence of the lobbyists and repeal Citizen's United. Good luck with that in today's administration.
9
Gail Collins is right. We have to treat every day like it is the day after Sandy Hook. Whether it is 20 children, or a toddler shooting his mother, or a deranged man targeting members of Congress, we can't give up on reasonable gun laws. Will it take 40 first graders? Or 100? It's daily insanity, and we think it's normal.
5
As long as the NRA is in the pockets of Congressmen and women, nothing will happen. We are a sad country when we don't do a thing after .Sandy .Hook as well as all deaths every day in our country from guns. The NRA is all about scaring people and arming as many people as possible. if 80 percent of gun owners are ok with some kind of gun control, why isn't the NRA?
2
It wasn’t just a congressional baseball team. It was a team of GOP congressmen, those stalwart obstructionists of sensible firearm measures. Fate and bad luck offered them a terrifying glance down the barrel of an assault weapon in the hands of a madman/terrorist. Fortunately, government-provided bodyguards brought down the assailant before fatalities were inflicted.
Too bad the children at Sandy Hook School, and the revelers in the Pulse Club did not have the privilege of government body guards or the preventive potential of sensible gun laws!
Did the GOP congressmen gain wisdom from the experience? Or, did they attribute their moment of terror to the lack of a weapons for self-defense, and take comfort in the NRA mantra of “guns don’t kill, people kill”?
Too bad the children at Sandy Hook School, and the revelers in the Pulse Club did not have the privilege of government body guards or the preventive potential of sensible gun laws!
Did the GOP congressmen gain wisdom from the experience? Or, did they attribute their moment of terror to the lack of a weapons for self-defense, and take comfort in the NRA mantra of “guns don’t kill, people kill”?
1
Gail set an extremely low bar for our president. He didn't make any outlandish statements which he usually does and he told no lies. I believe my ten year old grandson could do the same. His rhetoric has not unified the electorate but instead divided us more. His nastiness whether directed at the press or the former president has helped create a terrible political climate. Also the Republican agenda is supportive of the top one percent not the majority of Americans.
4
It's a righteous cause indeed, but a horribly daunting task when the Republicans in Congress look at this tragic event and proclaim that looser gun laws are needed. Ours is one of very few countries where such twisted logic prevails, where lethal weapons are readily available and no amount of gun violence is a deterrent to their sale. So yes, we'll continue to fight and rail and protest, but our angry, impassioned voices will be lost in the wind.
4
The NRA advocates for the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed or in full view anything from handguns to military-designed machine guns anytime, anyplace. Yet every mass shooter, from yesterday's attack on Congressional representatives and their lobbyists to Sandy Hook to Columbine was a law-abiding citizen who had been aided and defended by the NRA until the killing stopped. It's not the known criminals we have to worry about when going to movies, playing baseball, shopping at the mall, or attending church. It's the NRA's law-abiding citizens who are slaughtering our kids, our students, our worshippers, our politicians. When is the NRA going to take personal responsibility?
4
What I though was interesting was the shock the various Republicans had responding to this attack. I understand some were actually crying. This applied to those who were actually there and those who were not. Yet these same people continue to not just support but promote the gun lobby. At this time they are considering a law to legalize suppressors on the weird claim it is for hearing safety. Suppressors have no value for hunting or target shooting and primarily benefit those who wish to kill other humans. The Republicans for all practical purposes want every nut, incompetent, terrorist and and criminal to have access to guns. They seem unable to be unable to translate their fear and shock to that felt by the victims of their gun promotion. Their laws guarantee this. Then there is the claim that more guns deter attacks in schools and other locations. I guess moms should be packing when they take their kids to the mall. Unlike the moms these politicians had armed trained guards paid for by taxes and it did not stop a killer.
8
Within hours after dodging bullets, Republicans were wishing they had been carrying a gun to fight back with, which would probably have gotten them or someone else innocent shot, instead of wishing there were fewer guns so easily obtainable by mad men.
2
Our national anthem should be changed to "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" written by John Lennon and Paul McCartney.
That song had nothing to do with firearms.
The Congress and state legislatures have become a cabal of drug pushers, and their drug of choice is weapons. They push weapons into our schools, churches, public spaces and arenas. They push weapons into the hands of children, the mentally unsound, and even those on watch lists.
They take their orders from lobbyists and big money, ignoring the will of the citizenry. They are accomplices to the thousands of gun murders each year.
They take their orders from lobbyists and big money, ignoring the will of the citizenry. They are accomplices to the thousands of gun murders each year.
3
Even better, there’s a bipartisan women’s softball team that has its own game every year: lawmakers versus reporters from the D.C. press corps.
“It’s really one of the best things we do,” said Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, one of the veteran players.
What a sad state of affairs in our Congress when a baseball game is one of the best things they do.
If only Washington worked for the people and not large corporations and wealthy lobbyists political motivated violence would likely dissapear. That sad, nothing the Republicans have done justifies yetserdays shootings.
“It’s really one of the best things we do,” said Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, one of the veteran players.
What a sad state of affairs in our Congress when a baseball game is one of the best things they do.
If only Washington worked for the people and not large corporations and wealthy lobbyists political motivated violence would likely dissapear. That sad, nothing the Republicans have done justifies yetserdays shootings.
“Many lives would've been lost if not for the heroic actions of the two Capitol Police officers …”
That’s right, Trump, their actions were heroic. And they don’t mouth off about how they could walk down the street and shoot anyone they wanted to and get away with it. They also don’t indulge the Second Amendment fanatics with talk of how they might be able to get rid of Hillary for you during the election. They just do their jobs, all the time, by putting their lives on the line for others. They are the real heroes.
So how’s it been going for you today, anyway? Did you manage to make any progress taking away health insurance from tens of millions of your fellow American citizens, including needed care for the mentally ill? How about further enabling your NRA buddies, letting them know again that the “eight-year assault” on gun rights is over? Been working hard gutting the environment and education for everyone, in order to further enrich yourself? How about those hefty tax cuts for you, your family, and your loyal cronies? And have you gotten any more personal gifts lately from your good friends, the Saudis?
What we should do is make clones of Trump and assign them as his personal security detail. Trump wouldn’t last two seconds with that crew. At the first sign of trouble, they’d all be cowering in the corner trying to save themselves. What a revealing sight that would be.
Our tawdry little presidential hero. Done in by his own little squad of fake heroes.
That’s right, Trump, their actions were heroic. And they don’t mouth off about how they could walk down the street and shoot anyone they wanted to and get away with it. They also don’t indulge the Second Amendment fanatics with talk of how they might be able to get rid of Hillary for you during the election. They just do their jobs, all the time, by putting their lives on the line for others. They are the real heroes.
So how’s it been going for you today, anyway? Did you manage to make any progress taking away health insurance from tens of millions of your fellow American citizens, including needed care for the mentally ill? How about further enabling your NRA buddies, letting them know again that the “eight-year assault” on gun rights is over? Been working hard gutting the environment and education for everyone, in order to further enrich yourself? How about those hefty tax cuts for you, your family, and your loyal cronies? And have you gotten any more personal gifts lately from your good friends, the Saudis?
What we should do is make clones of Trump and assign them as his personal security detail. Trump wouldn’t last two seconds with that crew. At the first sign of trouble, they’d all be cowering in the corner trying to save themselves. What a revealing sight that would be.
Our tawdry little presidential hero. Done in by his own little squad of fake heroes.
1
I am convinced that an important contributing factor is the relentless, vicious, and mean-spirited vitriol from so many on the left. This includes the NYT editorial board, Krugman, Leonhardt and Blow, the Washington Post, Stephen Colbert, Seth Meyers, Kathy Griffin, the Julius Caesar play in NY, Schumer, Pelosi, Maxine Waters, CNN, MSNBC and so many others. Yesterday’s blood is on their hands.
Call me old fashioned but the news should report facts and comedians should be funny. The NYT is so obsessed with bringing Trump down that they don’t check facts anymore and intentionally omit real news about so many of Trump’s accomplishments, especially the meaningful improvements in our economy.
Wouldn’t it be refreshing if there could be calls for unity and an end to the mean and destructive campaign to bring Trump down, even though those involved know that their actions are hurting all Americans and the country? Report the real news, all of it, good or bad and take the meanness out of comedy and make comedy funny again. Otherwise, there will be more politically driven bloodshed.
Call me old fashioned but the news should report facts and comedians should be funny. The NYT is so obsessed with bringing Trump down that they don’t check facts anymore and intentionally omit real news about so many of Trump’s accomplishments, especially the meaningful improvements in our economy.
Wouldn’t it be refreshing if there could be calls for unity and an end to the mean and destructive campaign to bring Trump down, even though those involved know that their actions are hurting all Americans and the country? Report the real news, all of it, good or bad and take the meanness out of comedy and make comedy funny again. Otherwise, there will be more politically driven bloodshed.
2
First, the Julius Caesar play should not be on that list - lots of presidents, including Obama, have been portrayed the same way and not gotten concerned about it.
Overall I agree with you, but with the following caveat - people are not enraged about Trump and the Republicans simply because the media are telling them to be. It is their actions that are enraging large swaths of the public. No one should suggest violence but calling Trump "dangerous" is just a fact and totally accurate. He may very well incite a war with his carelessness. And as people see how the promises Trump made are not being kept, of course there will be anger. We need to keep emphasizing that violence is not the answer, no question about that, but using angry words to describe what is going on is not wrong in any sense.
Overall I agree with you, but with the following caveat - people are not enraged about Trump and the Republicans simply because the media are telling them to be. It is their actions that are enraging large swaths of the public. No one should suggest violence but calling Trump "dangerous" is just a fact and totally accurate. He may very well incite a war with his carelessness. And as people see how the promises Trump made are not being kept, of course there will be anger. We need to keep emphasizing that violence is not the answer, no question about that, but using angry words to describe what is going on is not wrong in any sense.
2
Dear Catherine,
Obama was way more dangerous to the US and the world. It will soon be shown that he also committed crimes with Loretta Lynch, unmasking for political gain and Fast and Furious gun running. So far, the only person that can actually say that they were hurt since Trump became President is the despicable, unfunny Kathy Griffin. If she was popular no one would have been able to bring her down. Consider, Stephen Colbert who is much meaner and not funny, but is an opportunist praying on the emotions of a craze left wing still crying because Hillary, worst candidate in history lost.
Obama was way more dangerous to the US and the world. It will soon be shown that he also committed crimes with Loretta Lynch, unmasking for political gain and Fast and Furious gun running. So far, the only person that can actually say that they were hurt since Trump became President is the despicable, unfunny Kathy Griffin. If she was popular no one would have been able to bring her down. Consider, Stephen Colbert who is much meaner and not funny, but is an opportunist praying on the emotions of a craze left wing still crying because Hillary, worst candidate in history lost.
1
I can't help wondering what Mr. Scalise's "score" is for the NRA lobby. Will there be a "Scalise Bill" to scale back the insane proliferation of guns in this country? Since no one has the fortitude to stand up the the NRA politically, perhaps a personal tragedy of the magnitude of Mr. Scalise's could overcome the overt bribery and intimidation that forestalls any sane discussion of the gun issue by our "representatives".
Tragedy. However, quite ironic that as Republicans have played games with American lives over the past several months, a Republican life was almost lost at a game. Republicans have gone from meeting to meeting in the past several months suited with their arrogant smiles and smirks, knowing they're not doing the right things for the American people and feeling untouchable. Trump and his GOP were silent over the last few weeks when Trump supporters murdered and attacked Black Americans, Muslim Americans, and Hispanic Americans and those who tried to defend them. The problem with not helping others in their time of need is that the same problem may eventually land on your doorstep.
3
Greed, hatred, and lack of compassion. These things will continue to define our future. Better angels, not so much. When we see one another as the "enemy", there is little ground left for anything but more of the same. How to destroy a society and profit from the wreckage? Create more division, hatred and fear of the "other". Who gains from this is the better question. Shock doctrine anyone?
A final thought....in the thousands of years of human existence we have not evolved any further than a survival of the fittest mentality. Working together for the common good, not so much. A self-destructive species running blindly to the edge of oblivion. Dante's Inferno? Can we choose differently? Perhaps.
A final thought....in the thousands of years of human existence we have not evolved any further than a survival of the fittest mentality. Working together for the common good, not so much. A self-destructive species running blindly to the edge of oblivion. Dante's Inferno? Can we choose differently? Perhaps.
3
This column is so typical of the Progressive mind-set. Never a word that this was not just a shooting, it was a political assassination and done by a man who was rabidly anti-Trump. Instead, the focus is on "coming together," surely a worthy activity after a proper analysis of what led to the assassination but not as a substitute for analysis. And the pledge to work together, sadly, will be forgotten by tomorrow, as the NY Times and the Dems return to their Russia obsession.
5
"Coming together" is what Ryan and the other Republicans said, Gail is only echoing that.
8
This letter implies that Sandy Hook was "just a shooting," while the incident on the baseball diamond was something much more serious: "an assassination" attempt. I don't think that the death of 20 children by gun violence is less serious than politically motivated gun violence. They are, in my mind, both very serious and both indicative of deep-rooted problems in American society.
5
Ulysses, please read Gail's last paragraph again. She's not calling for comity. She wants you to fight the good fight.
Even if we grant it's an assassination (attempt), so what? Gifford only joined Jim Brady, Ronald Reagan, and Gerald Ford, inter alia, as targets of crazies. Nothing new there.
Which do you want to regulate: guns, or mental health? Emotional instability is indigenous to humanity. Guns are not.
Making owners and sellers legally and financially responsible for their weapons would only treat them as adults. They would be liable for their choices.
As it is now, the NRA insists they are children with playthings, to whom no one can say no. When bad things happen, they say boys will be boys, and encourage us to fight back, i.e., fire back.
Most gun owners are not dangerous. Legal liability would make sellers more cautious, and make gun possession with ill intent more difficult.
Even if we grant it's an assassination (attempt), so what? Gifford only joined Jim Brady, Ronald Reagan, and Gerald Ford, inter alia, as targets of crazies. Nothing new there.
Which do you want to regulate: guns, or mental health? Emotional instability is indigenous to humanity. Guns are not.
Making owners and sellers legally and financially responsible for their weapons would only treat them as adults. They would be liable for their choices.
As it is now, the NRA insists they are children with playthings, to whom no one can say no. When bad things happen, they say boys will be boys, and encourage us to fight back, i.e., fire back.
Most gun owners are not dangerous. Legal liability would make sellers more cautious, and make gun possession with ill intent more difficult.
2
Off topic, but Gail originated the off topic by saying we need more women in Congress. This is true, but not just any woman. I watched Tuesday in our Virginia primary as too many women voted for a woman for one of the slots, a woman they knew nothing about apparently beyond gender. Fortunately, there were enough informed voters who knew about her background and the attributes of her opponent, and she won't be on the ticket. It would be helpful if we added some qualifiers to the statement "we need more women." I, personally, can do without the Sarah Palins and Margaret Thatchers of the world.
11
Thank you, Gail, for a thoughtful and persuasive assessment of the Virginia shootings in the context of the tsunami of gun violence afflicting the U.S.
I agree that our virtually unfettered national access to firearms has accelerated the occurrence of mass shootings, and that this deadly state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue.
I agree that our virtually unfettered national access to firearms has accelerated the occurrence of mass shootings, and that this deadly state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue.
22
I imagine some economically struggling blue-collar individual "out there" thinking something like: "I'm working three jobs because these guys shipped my profession overseas, meanwhile these same folks seemingly have all the leisure time in the world, while I barely have a moment to play catch with my kids." And to that I say "amen." Our original concept of citizen-legislators has now been incorporated into the celebrity culture that swamps every moment in the life of this country, the lives of almost every-man.
13
If you are going to imagine that profile of an aggrieved guy out there it does not fit this shooter. Furthermore he was 66 (so am I), male (so am I), a gun owner (so am I) and identified as a progressive (so do I) and posted his sentiments on social media ( so do I). BUT, I never would have imagined I would read this profile of an assassin! I fully expected this to come from "second amendment solution" nuts from the right if Hillary had won. I'm am humbled and dumbfounded. A brief history of his run ins with the police does suggest "angry white guy" syndrome.
Bernie Sanders was criticized for being soft on gun control, but what he called for was common sense first actions that could take baby steps to preventing guns from getting into the hand of people who would use them in this way. It was a moderate plea for a first step. It logically could have come from either side. We have taken steps in the other direction, and while this one incident is not unique, and the lives past and future that have been and will be harmed by similar weapons most certainly are neither more nor less important, this one event does shock us and beg us to again ask questions like, "what in the heck is going on in America", "how can this continue to happen?", and the like. The striking thing I find myself "shocked" by is the realization of how few times we have seen right and left come together, unabashedly, in agreement about anything. Because Congress members came under fire, this hit home immediately, and it has jarred our leaders to do something very unusual in today's environment, speak with one voice. This is one of the few, if not the first time we have seen Donald Trump make any kind of sincere plea for unity. There is so much to agree upon. As a tribute to those harmed in this incident, can't we again try to identify those things that we agree upon, that bind us, that rise above getting re-elected and taking sides. I would love see Ryan and Pelosi take on this challenge.
14
The onus for this tragedy lies upon the NRA and their decades of lobbying against common sense gun laws. Perhaps this will serve as a wakeup call for all Americans, not just GOP politicians, that the 2nd Amendment is not an absolute, guaranteeing a right to carry ANY type, of firearm with as MANY rounds as possible, whether of sound mind or not.
When the Founding Fathers/ThomasJefferson wrote the Constitution, they never envisioned six shooters, let alone semiautomatic handguns and rifles. cable of carrying 30 rounds, or more, of ammunition. Article 1, Section 8 establishes a permanent Navy, but not a standing Army. It provides for "calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrection, and repel Invasions;". Unfortunately, Justice Scalia's SCOTUS revised the reading of the 2nd Amendment from the original intent of the Framers of the Constitution, twisting it to mean Americans can carry ANY type of firearm, with ANY type of ammunition, and as MANY rounds as one can carry.
When Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, et. al., cleaned up Dodge City & Tombstone, by limiting firearms in the city limits, I don't recall reading about the Cowboys' 2nd Amendment rights being violated, nor did a 19th Century SCOTUS step in with a revisionist reading. They understood the safety of average citizens in their homes and communities should rely on law enforcement, not self-appointed security guards & armed vigilantes.
It's time for common sense to overcome the NRA.
When the Founding Fathers/ThomasJefferson wrote the Constitution, they never envisioned six shooters, let alone semiautomatic handguns and rifles. cable of carrying 30 rounds, or more, of ammunition. Article 1, Section 8 establishes a permanent Navy, but not a standing Army. It provides for "calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrection, and repel Invasions;". Unfortunately, Justice Scalia's SCOTUS revised the reading of the 2nd Amendment from the original intent of the Framers of the Constitution, twisting it to mean Americans can carry ANY type of firearm, with ANY type of ammunition, and as MANY rounds as one can carry.
When Wyatt Earp, Bat Masterson, et. al., cleaned up Dodge City & Tombstone, by limiting firearms in the city limits, I don't recall reading about the Cowboys' 2nd Amendment rights being violated, nor did a 19th Century SCOTUS step in with a revisionist reading. They understood the safety of average citizens in their homes and communities should rely on law enforcement, not self-appointed security guards & armed vigilantes.
It's time for common sense to overcome the NRA.
60
Actually, the onus is on the Left and their willingness to shout down opinions they don't like---at Mizzou, Berkeley, Middlebury, Evergreen State--violence or threats of violence at all of them for deviation from left-wing dogma.
(You may have noticed that the NRA didn't exist when the Second Amendment was created)
(You may have noticed that the NRA didn't exist when the Second Amendment was created)
So, " the safety of average citizens in their homes and communities should rely on law enforcement". Really? Well to further signal your virtue, you should put up a sign in your yard or your window that proclaims "PROUD to live in a GUN FREE HOME". How about it hypocrite?
There is a long-standing principal, handed down by the Supreme Court, that courts are not to read laws so as “to render superfluous” any of their provisions. And yet Scalia, the phony originalist /textualist, had to butcher a sentence, in rendering the first half of the Second Amendment superfluous, so that every mentally unfit person in the U.S. could carry and use military-grade weapons at a whim.
In doing so, he also had to ignore three other provisions of the U.S. Constitution that speak about militias. Read it for yourselves and decide what the Second Amendment really means …
Second Amendment: “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
Article I, Section 8: “The Congress shall have the power …
15. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
16. To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress: …”
Art II, Section 2: “1. The President shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States, when called into the actual service of the United States …”
In doing so, he also had to ignore three other provisions of the U.S. Constitution that speak about militias. Read it for yourselves and decide what the Second Amendment really means …
Second Amendment: “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
Article I, Section 8: “The Congress shall have the power …
15. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
16. To provide for organizing, arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress: …”
Art II, Section 2: “1. The President shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several States, when called into the actual service of the United States …”
1
I hope the earnest calls for civility outlast even one news cycle. However, I was stuck by a few things yesterday. What was a lobbyist for Tyson foods doing on the Republican team? How could Gingrich decry the "increasing intensity of hostility on the left" when he is the one who used to circulate talking points to Republican representatives that called for them to describe their opponents as monsters or worse? And discouraged them from socializing with Democrats? Roger Williams of TX couldn't even bring himself to support a heartfelt call for unity and good fellowship and practically called for the right to carry a gun in Congress.
One of the first things the Republicans did after Trump was elected was pass legislation making it easier for mentally ill people to obtain a gun. People like the shooter, who clearly had a history of anger issues. Perhaps that now that our Republican representatives have found themselves as the target our gun laws may become more sane.
I am not trying to be uncivil in finger pointing at our Republican representatives, but historically they are the pro-guns party who take an awful lot of money from gun manufacturers via the NRA.
One of the first things the Republicans did after Trump was elected was pass legislation making it easier for mentally ill people to obtain a gun. People like the shooter, who clearly had a history of anger issues. Perhaps that now that our Republican representatives have found themselves as the target our gun laws may become more sane.
I am not trying to be uncivil in finger pointing at our Republican representatives, but historically they are the pro-guns party who take an awful lot of money from gun manufacturers via the NRA.
53
Not to mention, of course, Trump during his campaign calling on "2nd Amendment folks" to take care of the situation if Hillary won.
2
This is an issue that cannot be solved on a national level and as a progressive democrat I don't want it to be. Why? Because a Republican Congress and a Republican President will impose legislation overturning stringent gun regulations in states that have them. And by and large these state laws work. For example most states that encourage gun ownership also have the highest rates of gun deaths among children. Statistics prove this at almost every level for gun violence in these states. Gun lovers tragically rule our country.
17
Ms. Collins brings up several good points including the fact that as horrible as the shooting in Alexandria was, this happens every day in America and usually with much worse results. The facts are clear. Over 31,000 Americans die from gun violence (including suicide) every year and what is often overlooked are the 100,000+ Americans that are maimed, often for life, due to gun violence. We can throw offer "thoughts and prayers" for the victims after every shooting as has been the case by most politicians or WE THE PEOPLE can actually do something. There are numerous organizations working every day to prevent gun violence. Everytown for Gun Safety, Moms Demand Action & Mothers of the Movement come to mind for me. Seek out these organizations and join if you want real change. None of these organizations seek to change the Second Amendment but all advocate for sensible gun legislation such as universal background checks which close the gun show and private sales loopholes. Limits on magazine size will help prevent a gunman from entering a theater with a 100 round magazine as we saw in Aurora. We also need to eliminate strawman purchases that help fuel the violence in cities like Chicago and Washington DC. We will never end this type of gun violence but working together we can reduce it. I am reminded of a quote from Margaret Mead: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.".... Join us.
18
This tragedy will result in members of Congress getting more security, while the rest of us will remain vulnerable to deranged, armed individuals
54
That security will be paid by us.
2
I emailed your same thoughts to my senators and representative last night.
I keep wondering what it will take for them to ignore the NRA and do what is right.
I keep wondering what it will take for them to ignore the NRA and do what is right.
3
This used to be a better country before the Supreme Court decided that it was the right of every American to own guns. This led to 300 million guns floating around America without any way to keep them out of the hands of the violent and the mentally unstable. It once was a much better country. It's sad.
All well and good to call one's representatives; however, when was the last time Republican representatives listened to their constituents on gun control? The majority of Americans want it, but the GOP march in lockstep, owned by the NRA. Not one has the moral fiber to stand up and say "Enough!"
45
If you want rational gun control, you cannot vote for a Republican. Ever.
1
The point of view that if 20 first graders being shot to pieces in their school failed to move this country to action against the proliferation of guns, this latest atrocity sure won't hit the nail on the head. This country is a mess and, if you look at it historically, always has been. We call ourselves civilized, and maybe the majority of us are, more or less. But scratch the surface and there's rage and turmoil all over the place. In the 21st century, they have been joined by apathy and fear. I raged against gun proliferation after Newtown, but I'm becoming more and more convinced that those who say "it's not the guns, it's the shooters" are closer to the mark. I still think it's true that if we could remove all the guns, we'd get rid of most of the problem, but that is simply unrealistic. The nation is in the grip of a gut-level fear, hopelessness, and lack of values and faith in our leadership, exacerbated by our becoming ever more inured to gun violence. That is the problem and I don't believe there IS an effective solution. We need something to believe in - which some desperate, blind and deaf people thought existed in Donald Trump, of all possible places - and, once we find if, IF we do before the looming cataclysm happens, the rage has to burn itself out. That's a terrible way to feel about existence, admittedly. But I don't see a lot of hope around today.
18
The notion that the US is "under God" is presumptuous nonsense. The US is a nation of juveniles pining for a savior that never existed and never will.
Letters, calls, meetings, demonstrations have been going on for years against this violence. The rhetoric of fear and money of the gun lobby have only become more invincible. Until politicians can trade in community and appreciation and a recognition of other perspectives, we will continue to be after the blood of those who don't agree.
5
The American people has said, with vast majorities, that, while we accept the freedom to own guns, we want stronger background checks.
The politicians ignore us
The politicians ignore us
21
Money talks louder than constituents.
Let's hope that all those wounded yesterday recover fully from their physical wounds.
Newt Gingrich proved that he is the smallest person in D.C., with his indictment of the left as the root cause of violent rhetoric.
I'm cynical enough at this point to think that he won't be the last politician to assign blame and motives to people who otherwise totally condemned the shooter. Here we go.
Congress actually did well by themselves yesterday after the shooting. It was a relief, a physical and emotional relief, to hear them say the things that they said.
But it is my shared opinion with Gail that, as usual, it is the guns. Guns and mental illness.
My hope is that, with this mass assault on members of Congress, in an open field as easy targets, they will connect their own terrifying personal experience with that of other victims of gun violence.
We all live with the reality that we could be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and end up a minor mention on the nightly news. After all, we aren't members of Congress, and we don't have round the clock protection by armed guards.
Newt Gingrich proved that he is the smallest person in D.C., with his indictment of the left as the root cause of violent rhetoric.
I'm cynical enough at this point to think that he won't be the last politician to assign blame and motives to people who otherwise totally condemned the shooter. Here we go.
Congress actually did well by themselves yesterday after the shooting. It was a relief, a physical and emotional relief, to hear them say the things that they said.
But it is my shared opinion with Gail that, as usual, it is the guns. Guns and mental illness.
My hope is that, with this mass assault on members of Congress, in an open field as easy targets, they will connect their own terrifying personal experience with that of other victims of gun violence.
We all live with the reality that we could be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and end up a minor mention on the nightly news. After all, we aren't members of Congress, and we don't have round the clock protection by armed guards.
17
The Republican members of Congress will not change their attitudes towards firearms no matter what happens. They are ideologues. As long as there is a perverted interpretation of the Second Amendment, nothing will change.
Newt Gingrich is the kind of nihilist Sheldon Adelson believes to be a good investment.
Political plutocrats are some of the sickest people in the USA.
Political plutocrats are some of the sickest people in the USA.
So much for a learning curve. There is an article in this very paper today wherein some - mostly Republicans - are calling for looser gun regulations so people can defend themselves, I guess Wild West style.
One would have thought the shooting of the idolized Reagan and the ensuing Brady Bill would have begun a sanity march. However, Bush #2's letting it lapse, and the subsequent flow of money into politics crushed that dream.
We are at a point now where our only salvation seems to be some historian or distant relative of a founding father uncovering a long forgotten writing wherein it clearly states '... the right to bear arms refers explicitly to a well regulated militia, and does not mean or permit every Tom, Dick or Mary to walk around armed.' Then let the strict-constructionists chew on that one.
One would have thought the shooting of the idolized Reagan and the ensuing Brady Bill would have begun a sanity march. However, Bush #2's letting it lapse, and the subsequent flow of money into politics crushed that dream.
We are at a point now where our only salvation seems to be some historian or distant relative of a founding father uncovering a long forgotten writing wherein it clearly states '... the right to bear arms refers explicitly to a well regulated militia, and does not mean or permit every Tom, Dick or Mary to walk around armed.' Then let the strict-constructionists chew on that one.
13
Far too many Americans already rely on the dead to think for them.
Gun control works and in many countries it has lowered the chance of being slaughtered senselessly. But the US are exceptional, logic and reason don't apply. The battle cry will be for more weapons and fewer restrictions. I am waiting for the NRA to promote the idea that carrying a weapon will be compulsory. Being unarmed will be considered a threat to society.
"if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform, it’s not likely that the wounding of several adults in Virginia will do the trick." After Sandy Hook and the appalling lack of resolve on the part of our leaders to end this madness, I knew for certain that our nation had become morally bankrupt. Trump's presidency is just a broadly drawn cartoon of the result of the corrupting influence of money, influence, and narrow corporate interests for those who are apparently too dull to pick up on nuance. Are we doomed?
22
I worked as a domestic violence counselor for 12 years in Illinois. Hodgikinson, from Illinois, had a domestic violence arrest but his case was dismissed. If he had been convicted, even with a misdemeanor, he would have lost his right to have guns. Many abusers whine that they won't be able to go hunting. Sorry, they can still use a bow. Also, AR15 rifles are illegal for hunting in Illinois, although they are widely sold. Many of these shooters have a domestic violence incident in their past.
1
I found it disgustingly sad and ironic that GOP leaders were shocked and saddened at the shootings of their colleagues. An understandable reaction, but I contrast this to the relative silence I hear on the federal level about places like Chicago (and Indianapolis) where gun violence is practically an everyday occurrence. Kids and young adults die on their ballfields, streets, and homes and legislators refuse to act.
Will Wednesday's shootings make things real for Congress? Will this finally result in a sane discussion on gun control, since the violence has now hit home? No. Newtown was the Rubicon on that issue. All it will lead to are more calls for more access to more guns and more security for those who can afford it -- which means more kids in Chicago and Indy will die. Same stuff, different day.
Play ball.
Will Wednesday's shootings make things real for Congress? Will this finally result in a sane discussion on gun control, since the violence has now hit home? No. Newtown was the Rubicon on that issue. All it will lead to are more calls for more access to more guns and more security for those who can afford it -- which means more kids in Chicago and Indy will die. Same stuff, different day.
Play ball.
21
We are all someonewhat culpible for the DC shooting given the tenor of our poltical discourse with its vitriol and "ad hominem" attacks. We seee the worst side of ourselves. The question for Paul Ryan, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders Nancy Pelosi and others is whether they have the character to shift that conversation. We the people need to ask if we have the character to demand a different dialogue and vote to ensure it takes place.
"Write a letter. Call your representative. Hold a meeting. You can demand laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks, or laws to ban rifles that allow one person to take down several dozen victims without reloading."
Yes. I've been doing that for decades now. But my representative is one of these guys:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/targeted-republicans-gun-...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
I might call Tom Reed and ask how he envisions a future ball game in which all players are armed to the teeth. The pitcher will want a wingman and the umpire will call strikes from an armored box. Runners won't steal bases because they'll be too focused on watching the crowd for the glint of metal. On the up side, no one will complain that baseball games are boring anymore.
Yes. I've been doing that for decades now. But my representative is one of these guys:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/14/us/politics/targeted-republicans-gun-...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
I might call Tom Reed and ask how he envisions a future ball game in which all players are armed to the teeth. The pitcher will want a wingman and the umpire will call strikes from an armored box. Runners won't steal bases because they'll be too focused on watching the crowd for the glint of metal. On the up side, no one will complain that baseball games are boring anymore.
8
Guns are a symptom. We could treat the symptom, were there any common grounds to do so, but we should be dealing with root causes. This would require real not feigned togtherness and genuine integrity. I suspect we don't have the political capability or will to do this, certainly not anytime soon.
5
There always have been, and always will be mentally unstable people prone to violence. In America is seems many of these people have little or no difficulty obtaining guns. This is the real problem.
Conservatives talk about a strict reading of our constitution but balk when it comes to such an interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
The result of this shows daily in gun murders.
Only in America.
Conservatives talk about a strict reading of our constitution but balk when it comes to such an interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
The result of this shows daily in gun murders.
Only in America.
11
Nothing good whatever will come from this; indeed it's already done a great deal of harm.
Trump gets to look "presidential"; Republican congressmen get to be sympathetic martyrs; distraction from the growing pressure on Trump; cover for Republican legislative depredations...
And of course it will have no impact at all on gun control which is the very definition of a lost cause.
We're way past "coming together"; we are engaged in a civil Cold War.
The only silver lining I can see is that the frantic news cycle will turn inexorably to the next big story in about a day or two.
Trump gets to look "presidential"; Republican congressmen get to be sympathetic martyrs; distraction from the growing pressure on Trump; cover for Republican legislative depredations...
And of course it will have no impact at all on gun control which is the very definition of a lost cause.
We're way past "coming together"; we are engaged in a civil Cold War.
The only silver lining I can see is that the frantic news cycle will turn inexorably to the next big story in about a day or two.
7
I suspect congresspersons do not meet for drinks across the aisle because we elect representatives whose disdain for the other side is too strong for them to be able to stand a friendly get together. I think we, Republicans and Democrats, want it that way. I think a politician who is caught being bi-partisan endangers his or her seat.
The diamond shooting is a predictable escalation of this degrading, reprehensible attitude, and in this case both parties share responsibility, although that point too will generate vicious rebuke.
I'm not really sure the citizenry want comity. I think the hate is real and deep and heading to no good place.
The diamond shooting is a predictable escalation of this degrading, reprehensible attitude, and in this case both parties share responsibility, although that point too will generate vicious rebuke.
I'm not really sure the citizenry want comity. I think the hate is real and deep and heading to no good place.
James Hodgkinson did not understand that acts like his always provoke public sympathy and identification for the victims of the violence, not for the shooter or his cause. And surely he did not understand that his act would create a greater level of threat for the very people and causes he supported.
In his rage he did not understand, also, that he essentially gave his life as a gift to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and the NRA, all of which will joyfully inflame the "faithful" with the tragic news.
Perhaps Mr. Hodgkinson did not understand that violence nearly always begets more violence - that the crazier the violence, the crazier and more reactionary the answer is likely to be.
The persons who were wounded and their families were lucky that Mr. Hodgkinson was not more "successful." But we are all lucky - very lucky - that no one was killed.
In his rage he did not understand, also, that he essentially gave his life as a gift to Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and the NRA, all of which will joyfully inflame the "faithful" with the tragic news.
Perhaps Mr. Hodgkinson did not understand that violence nearly always begets more violence - that the crazier the violence, the crazier and more reactionary the answer is likely to be.
The persons who were wounded and their families were lucky that Mr. Hodgkinson was not more "successful." But we are all lucky - very lucky - that no one was killed.
4
With a membership of less than five million, the NRA is the tail wagging the dog.
Only when congress says no to their lobbyists will sensible gun control come into being. And that should be the clarion call to each and every member who had voted and will vote against any restrictions.
The minority's interpretation of the second amendment is destroying our safety and our peace of mind.
Only when congress says no to their lobbyists will sensible gun control come into being. And that should be the clarion call to each and every member who had voted and will vote against any restrictions.
The minority's interpretation of the second amendment is destroying our safety and our peace of mind.
9
Thank you, Gail, we needed to hear what you said. My hopes aren't high but I'll keep fighting because this is an existential cause.
3
Do you really think that the problem is guns? How come this problem wasn't much worse back in the day when everyone had guns and there were virtually no gun laws? No, the problem is not guns.
Was it? I'd like to see some figures on that.
5
Back in the day when everyone had guns, they used them to procure food. And they didn't have multiple 30-round magazines.
3
Wrong. "Everyone" now owns 2-3 guns or more. and plenty of ammo to go with them. When were there "no gun laws"? Portland must be a scarier place than I had thought.
1
I have purposely avoided watching t.v. anymore because I cannot watch over and over the same video clips and listen to the same talking heads yammer on and on. So I've only had newspaper accounts. But just seeing the one photo of Sen. Jeff Flake looking so....dazed with the horror that so many Americans have experienced - being at the mercy of sudden and automatic gun fire with many rounds fired and nowhere to run and hide, feeling hunted like an animal - is truly frightening. It's the picture of America. We're a violent people. It won't end any time soon. It will only get worse as people feel the draconian cuts coming from our Republican politicians. Many more shootings will occur. And perhaps more with high profile people.
What will they do about it?
What will they do about it?
9
Unfortunately, that same Jeff Flake is an ardent supporter of all weaponry with no restriction. His pro gun record is appalling.
1
It’s been so many years since obtaining a powerful gun was difficult in America, even those of us who are older than the Virginia shooter have trouble recalling what violence-prone people aggrieved by the politics of some officeholder did about it.
Actually, the problem isn’t the erosion of our memories from age as much as the commonality of the impulse of disturbed people to shoot their way out of every setback in their lives.
Unfair employer. Nagging wife. Rude person of color at the supermarket or at the BMV. Cop making an unjustified traffic stop. Guy with an accent who might be a terrorist. Driver cutting in front at the freeway off ramp. Bartender cutting you off at the local tavern. Judge not listening fairly to a good argument. Congressmen making your life miserable.
We need to talk more and care more about the least among us. Politicians who talk in public and on television need to talk to each other and about each other with civility.
Not just because some crazy guy with a rifle is listening.
Actually, the problem isn’t the erosion of our memories from age as much as the commonality of the impulse of disturbed people to shoot their way out of every setback in their lives.
Unfair employer. Nagging wife. Rude person of color at the supermarket or at the BMV. Cop making an unjustified traffic stop. Guy with an accent who might be a terrorist. Driver cutting in front at the freeway off ramp. Bartender cutting you off at the local tavern. Judge not listening fairly to a good argument. Congressmen making your life miserable.
We need to talk more and care more about the least among us. Politicians who talk in public and on television need to talk to each other and about each other with civility.
Not just because some crazy guy with a rifle is listening.
7
Believe it or not, we have local sheriffs and police chiefs here in Florida, when interviewed about this shooting incident on local television stations, advocating for the arming of everyone. We're back to the silly notion of "good guys with guns." The answer to the gun problem in this country is not more guns.
9
Republicans yesterday praised the brave police that saved lives and said if they hadn't been there then it would have been a massacre. Why weren't any of these Republican armed and returning fire. Was it just because they were playing a game and in uniform? Not good enough, if some of them are urging teachers and the public to carry concealed then they too should practice what they preach.
5
Yet now, because of these very members of congress, the mentally ill can buy guns. Those listed on the No-Fly list can buy guns. Where is bi-partisanship on the issue of sensible gun control?
7
All this gun violence and hate over race, religion, color, sexual preference and politics is a terrible thing. It's nice trump and the GOP want to come together however they have made this hate OK with their treatment of President Obama and their acceptance of trump's campaign and now his actions as president. All that said the really sad thing for me is if the victims were not from congress nobody would give a hoot.
9
And yet, so many of them invoke the God who loves the poor as much as, or more than, the rich. Oh, but this is a congressman! So what? Is it as bad as a baby killed in crossfire, or a bunch of families in a high-rise in London? Mass shootings are old news, and this was one of the least lethal.
1
Vile as Trump is, he was not his party's pioneer for abhorrent gun rhetoric. There was Sarah Palin's call to change some Congressional seats by showing her targeted members at the wrong end of a gun. And the GOP tolerated that.
The gunmen yesterday had troubles outside of his political frustrations. He was out of work and had previous brushes with the law. Yet Bernie Sanders took a painful truth head on, expressing his deep sorrow that the gunman had been on his campaign and disavowing what he did.
What leaders say matters. All the time. And no, Trump's call for unity yesterday cannot begin to undo the evil sentiments he has indulged. Those with power are responsible for how they use it, always.
The gunmen yesterday had troubles outside of his political frustrations. He was out of work and had previous brushes with the law. Yet Bernie Sanders took a painful truth head on, expressing his deep sorrow that the gunman had been on his campaign and disavowing what he did.
What leaders say matters. All the time. And no, Trump's call for unity yesterday cannot begin to undo the evil sentiments he has indulged. Those with power are responsible for how they use it, always.
10
In Nice, France, the bad guy used a truck and in London they used a truck and knives to kill people. If killing was the goal, the use of trucks and knives was more successful in those situations than the use of a gun at the Congressional baseball practice. People should have the right to protect themselves against others seeking to do them harm. 99.9% of the people in the U.S. don't have the advantage of having personal police protection, as the Congressmen did, so they are on their own, at least for the ten minutes before the police arrive. It should be up to the individual whether he or she wishes to protect themselves with a gun. It has been shown that bad guys do not need guns to kill a lot of people, so even if all guns were magically eliminated because they were outlawed, (unlikely), ordinary people would still have to face the use of trucks and knives as tools of mass murder. Only, without the option to have a gun to use in self-defense, the victims would be reduced to throwing chairs and bottles, which was shown to be unsuccessful in the London attack.
You know, I kind of agree, though I've been a card-carrying liberal all my life. But what the Republicans have been standing for--at the behest of the NRA--lets old people with Alzheimer's, unable to find their way home, buy guns. Lets mentally handicapped people, with the IQ of a child, buy guns.
I'm inclined to be in favor of strict laws about who can buy guns--but not registration of who owns them.
I'm inclined to be in favor of strict laws about who can buy guns--but not registration of who owns them.
Donald Trump's subdued appeal for "unity" after months of his divisive and incendiary rhetoric is the epitome of hypocrisy. There is nothing like an assault rifle, mass shooting to bring out the unmitigated hypocrisy endemic to American politicians. Excuse my dripping cynicism when I hear those sanctimonious, disingenuous, Republican politicians like Paul Ryan, appeal for "unity", when their "voting rhetoric" is paying for a tax cut for the rich by cutting off millions of people from basic health care, depriving thousands of poor women feminine health care by defunding PPH, acting as minions for the fossil fuel oligarchs, and collaborating with a president, who undermines federal court decisions, tries to intimidate the national media, and according to numerous fact checkers, has lied over 500 times to the American people.
This is not a "maybe"--it is absolutely the result of the savage, rude, and violent vitriol permitted daily on our public airwaves. Yes, the electromagnetic spectrum is OURS to regulate, and we should. Somehow, we simply Must encourage journalism to adhere to a form of the FCC's old "Fairness Doctrine". Only then might we hope for a gradual return to a civilized and modestly respectful Democracy.
1
In a nation locked, according to reports in your newspaper and others, in a state of extreme anxiety there needs to be some intense lobbying to assess and treat mental illness. Nobody wants to penalize legitimate collectors or hunters for food, but guns in the hands of the known mentally disturbed can surely be addressed.
Washington politicians are so self-important, so self-absorbed, that yesterday's tragedy gets their collective attention while the daily gun carnage is this country, not so much. As Trump would say, "SAD."
2
The average American has felt increasingly powerless for years. Their antidote has evolved into buying more guns, using more guns and increasingly speaking to the rest of us...with their guns. The rest of us need to figure out how to reach this constituency without the same recourse.
1
It was a rifle in this shooting, true. But it was an M4 Assault Weapon, illegal a few years ago. That is until Congress, in its infinite wisdom, reversed the Assault Weapon Ban. What purpose, other than shooting people, does this type of weapon exist in a civilized society? Or, are we really civil?
7
Fresh in my mind are the all the photos of Paul Ryan's smug face with Pence, Sessions, McConnell and all behind our so-called president bringing us all new nightmares daily, while robbing us of our rights, freedoms, security, money and any semblance of the America we knew right under our noses, behind closed doors. And now that Republicans have been targeted specifically, we are all "One family". Peace and love, everyone.
Why is anyone surprised that certain element of our society would deal with the powerlessness and fear every new day brings with violence.
We should be shocked that it hasn't happened before this. This administration is responsible, not any other campaign or candidate.
Why is anyone surprised that certain element of our society would deal with the powerlessness and fear every new day brings with violence.
We should be shocked that it hasn't happened before this. This administration is responsible, not any other campaign or candidate.
3
Interesting that the women's softball game/team is bipartisan. Admittedly there are fewer women in Congress to form a team. But not all TRADITIONS continue to serve a purpose. Why not have a bipartisan softball game that includes teams of men & women, as well as DEM & GOP? In many local communities softball teams are 'co-ed.' Is it because Congress is still just a 'good old boys' club that prefers women be seen but not heard?
2
So far, Trump has not acted a fool over this horrific shooting. I was expecting that shoe to drop. We should thank whoever kept him from his natural instincts to make this all about him or to enlist "those 2nd Amendment people" he called upon to take care of HIllary.
You can't hear any sane words about guns for all the noise of the gunfire.
You can't hear any sane words about guns for all the noise of the gunfire.
3
If anything happens at all to go forward with any gun reform it will only be because of the victims were in Congree. That is a sad commentary on who's life matters. A child's life doesn't matter as much as a Congress man's life(remember Sandy Hook) a gay man's life doesn't matter as much(remember Orlando) a college students life doesn't matter as much(remember Virginia Tech). I agree that our Country's leaders must be barraged by continual contact by regular citizens. I only hope it makes a difference. And just maybe a little compassion towards those less fortunate will begin to be shown by the Republican Congess
2
All these calls for "togetherness" on Capitol Hill, even from Trump, are pure hypocrisy at its best.
Paul Ryan, saying "we're one big family" is insulting coming from the House leader spearheading so many programs that will enrich the few (his Capitol Hill family) and kill the rest of us (no jobs, no healthcare) and the environment.
These same politicians haven't given a flip over the carnage of the past two weeks. Trump mocked the recent London Bridge attack, then blamed London's mayor for it.
These precious ballplayers act like they're the only ones in the U.S. who have been slaughtered by lunatics. Without guns, the baseball attack would have had zero chance of happening. I don't hear the Right calling for gun control now. They like the NRA's contributions too much for that.
I support banning weapons in the U. S. The 2nd amendment is outdated and has been interpreted now to permit open carry, with its unsaid message of, "Don't make me angry...I could kill you."
Our Capitol Hill "family" could be described as cruelly dysfunctional. While some voters (lobbyists, rich folk) personally know and are fond of members of Congress, I am pretty sure other, more colorful descriptives of these same people are used by most.
I foresee Trump wanting access to all our Facebook accounts, to smother free speech about his administration.
As to the fallen, at baseball practice and in the world this week, I am sorry for their and their familys' personal agony.
Paul Ryan, saying "we're one big family" is insulting coming from the House leader spearheading so many programs that will enrich the few (his Capitol Hill family) and kill the rest of us (no jobs, no healthcare) and the environment.
These same politicians haven't given a flip over the carnage of the past two weeks. Trump mocked the recent London Bridge attack, then blamed London's mayor for it.
These precious ballplayers act like they're the only ones in the U.S. who have been slaughtered by lunatics. Without guns, the baseball attack would have had zero chance of happening. I don't hear the Right calling for gun control now. They like the NRA's contributions too much for that.
I support banning weapons in the U. S. The 2nd amendment is outdated and has been interpreted now to permit open carry, with its unsaid message of, "Don't make me angry...I could kill you."
Our Capitol Hill "family" could be described as cruelly dysfunctional. While some voters (lobbyists, rich folk) personally know and are fond of members of Congress, I am pretty sure other, more colorful descriptives of these same people are used by most.
I foresee Trump wanting access to all our Facebook accounts, to smother free speech about his administration.
As to the fallen, at baseball practice and in the world this week, I am sorry for their and their familys' personal agony.
9
Any sharp-eyed person is not surprised by the gun violence uptick in the US. It happens in cycles according to the social angst of the time. It is caused mainly by dysfunctional politics or an economic downturn brought on by a financial crisis.
Nonetheless, guns mayhem goes beyond politics and the economy. The fundamental social-cultural question is guns and violence are embedded in America's DNA. It goes back to the country's formation; or how the west was won or how America was made great.
America is the only society in the world which decided more guns make them safer. A constitutional right bestowed upon any men/women or child in the land, including the unfit and mentally ill.
Nonetheless, guns mayhem goes beyond politics and the economy. The fundamental social-cultural question is guns and violence are embedded in America's DNA. It goes back to the country's formation; or how the west was won or how America was made great.
America is the only society in the world which decided more guns make them safer. A constitutional right bestowed upon any men/women or child in the land, including the unfit and mentally ill.
3
Public servants know the kind of potential dangers they may face from unhinged people when they run for office. Not so much teachers and children at a school like Sandy Hook Elementary, who were denied protection by those who were attacked yesterday.
3
Does anyone think this will change any votes on the silencer bill currently under debate?
That will be an indicator of whether Congressional tears are real or belong to crocodile.
That will be an indicator of whether Congressional tears are real or belong to crocodile.
There is way too much gun violence in America, yet we are ready to let guns into classrooms in Kansas colleges. How do we stop this madness? Legislation against guns is fine, but we need to have leadership in America that preaches nonviolence. Unfortunately, the NRA is a powerful lobbyist, and not answering violence with more guns hurts its constituents. Can we have someone in the GOP stand up to the NRA?
2
I was listening to NPR yesterday after the Alexandria shooting. The reporter was interviewing two freshmen House representatives, one republican, or democratic. The republican from Michigan, after registering his shock about the event, went right into an NRA talking point about how this kind of incident proved that gun control measures don't work. When challenged on this, he vehemently denied being in the NRA's pocket and noted his policemen son had come to the same conclusion.
What struck me, after my anger subsided, was how alien his reaction seemed to me. How absurd it seemed to me that some one could respond in the face of another gun tragedy in this country with a knee jerk anti-gun control defense. I fear that this unbeachable divide about such things will make governance in this country unattainable in any foreseeable future.
What struck me, after my anger subsided, was how alien his reaction seemed to me. How absurd it seemed to me that some one could respond in the face of another gun tragedy in this country with a knee jerk anti-gun control defense. I fear that this unbeachable divide about such things will make governance in this country unattainable in any foreseeable future.
4
If the Times permitted, I would post a crying-face emoji, which is about as meaningful and committed as all the crocodile tears now flowing in Washington about a single shooting of a powerful politician. As you point out, Gail, on the same day there were three people killed and two people wounded who didn't get any attention at all.
So, after years of therapy, I have learned not to judge people's feelings. But I feel no compunction about judging and asking, who are these people fanning themselves and collapsing onto their fainting couches who, when the moment is past, order another cocktail and get on with their lives, not making any changes and waiting for the next excuse for meaningless drama.
As long as congress refuses to even consider reasonable gun regulation this shooting will not be the last and we can all forget about it until the next high-profile event, when we can once again post our crying-face emojis.
So, after years of therapy, I have learned not to judge people's feelings. But I feel no compunction about judging and asking, who are these people fanning themselves and collapsing onto their fainting couches who, when the moment is past, order another cocktail and get on with their lives, not making any changes and waiting for the next excuse for meaningless drama.
As long as congress refuses to even consider reasonable gun regulation this shooting will not be the last and we can all forget about it until the next high-profile event, when we can once again post our crying-face emojis.
3
I read that many of those who commit or attempt to commit mass murder have a history of violence and a history of domestic abuse. But many, as in the case of Hodgkinson, are allowed to own or keep the guns they already own. We need better laws against those who commit domestic abuse. Sadly, the GOP, does not value women and has little interest in this issue; or rape; or women's rights. WE NEED MORE WOMEN IN ELECTED OFFICE.
3
Though violence is always repugnant, in this case the sowers reaped what they had sown. So it is hard to feel sorry for them, since they are now looking for even looser gun laws. Those who live by the gun shall most likely perish by it. This is not a tragedy but more of a mathematical outcome. The more guns the more likelyhood of death happening to something or someone. These moments are truly no longer shocking just another mathematical fact.
3
I agree with you Gail that this is a righteous cause. It is also a lost one. The right/NRA is already making this a case about too few guns.
If the murders of children at Sandy Hook had no real effect, this certainly won't.
Every other modern, civilized nation looks at us like we're completely out of our minds when it comes to gun violence.
They're right.
www.newyorkgritty.net
If the murders of children at Sandy Hook had no real effect, this certainly won't.
Every other modern, civilized nation looks at us like we're completely out of our minds when it comes to gun violence.
They're right.
www.newyorkgritty.net
3
"we need to come together on a consensus that there’s something wrong with a country in which an average of 93 people are killed with guns every day, in which gun homicides are so common that news reports frequently don’t bother to mention how the murderer obtained his weapon, and..."
Unless that country is awash with firearms promoted by self-righteous manufacturers shielded by ahistorical constitutional interpretations which result in a fratricidal neighborhood-workplace-school-playground civil war. Are we such a country?
Unless that country is awash with firearms promoted by self-righteous manufacturers shielded by ahistorical constitutional interpretations which result in a fratricidal neighborhood-workplace-school-playground civil war. Are we such a country?
2
And already the Republicans are calling for loosening the gun laws. It is the fantasy of if I had my gun I could be like John Wayne or Rambo and takeout the bad guy. You can almost see the swagger. It is more likely that innocent bystanders would be killed or injured. This is the problem that comes from lack of knowledge or understanding. It is hard enough for police(even they do not get enough training) and the military to get it "right".
3
It is a righteous cause and for even those like me who are so very tired of tilting at windmills, we must keeping fighting.
1
And now another horrible event provided to us by our friends at Fox News. It seems partisan to say that but think back and see of you can remember CNN bringing the insane level of emotion to 24 hour cable news seen by millions that we've come to expect at "fair and balanced". This seems a natural outcome of Sean Hannity and friends' continuously maniacal rants.
Gail, your righteous cause needs funds. Add sending a donation to the Brady Campaign or any of the other organizations trying to make the change to reasonable gun control.
I know it is impolite to say this right now, but Republicans want everyone to have unfettered access to assault weapons.
A lot of them are in shock that democrats can buy them too. You reap what you sow.
A lot of them are in shock that democrats can buy them too. You reap what you sow.
7
A righteous cause indeed. As is getting more women elected to Congress. Here in the UK there were "celebrations" that our Parliament has 32% women. Ridiculous. Why not 51% or whatever the correct percentage is these days? Fortunately the madmen at London Bridge had horrible knives, not automatic weapons. 93 dead per day is horrifying.
1
One year ago to the day: The following message was sent to my Congressman and Senators. We've come so far.
I write today to express my extreme dissatisfaction with the current state of gun violence in America. The vast majority of my fellow Citizens agree we need to enact common sense limitations on the flow of weapons into our society.
The National Rifle Association continues their record of foisting a flawed interpretation of the Second Amendment onto the public with great benefit to the merchants of death. The bankruptcy of their propaganda drives hatred, distrust, and division into our society. I liken their machinations to Domestic Terrorism.
The armaments industry must be brought to heel. America has more guns per capita than any other nation on Earth.
It's past time, Act!
Sincerely,
Ruffles and Flourishes
I write today to express my extreme dissatisfaction with the current state of gun violence in America. The vast majority of my fellow Citizens agree we need to enact common sense limitations on the flow of weapons into our society.
The National Rifle Association continues their record of foisting a flawed interpretation of the Second Amendment onto the public with great benefit to the merchants of death. The bankruptcy of their propaganda drives hatred, distrust, and division into our society. I liken their machinations to Domestic Terrorism.
The armaments industry must be brought to heel. America has more guns per capita than any other nation on Earth.
It's past time, Act!
Sincerely,
Ruffles and Flourishes
In an 1889 letter to playwright Aleksandr Semenovich Lazarev, Anton Chekhov wrote: "One must not put a loaded rifle on the stage if no one is thinking of firing it."
While the quote is meant to serve as a reminder to keep extraneous details out of a play, it can also serve to remind Americans that putting well over 300 million "loaded rifles on the stage" is only the first step to seeing them fired.
This is only logical despite insane and craven denials by the gun lobby.
Make each and every elected government employee publicly post the amount of money received from gun lobbyists. Every penny, upon receipt. Make it as hard to obtain a firearm like the one used at the ballpark yesterday as it would be in Australia, or France, or, yes, Russia. Help retire the tired phrase "thoughts and prayers" in this regard.
While the quote is meant to serve as a reminder to keep extraneous details out of a play, it can also serve to remind Americans that putting well over 300 million "loaded rifles on the stage" is only the first step to seeing them fired.
This is only logical despite insane and craven denials by the gun lobby.
Make each and every elected government employee publicly post the amount of money received from gun lobbyists. Every penny, upon receipt. Make it as hard to obtain a firearm like the one used at the ballpark yesterday as it would be in Australia, or France, or, yes, Russia. Help retire the tired phrase "thoughts and prayers" in this regard.
3
Righteous cause? Then why does Hollywood glorify violence? Why do toy companies make violent video games for little children? Why are there more crime horror action thriller TV shows than benign comedy as though people need to entertain themselves with gory, there isn't enough already on this planet? Our leaders glorify violence by attacking other countries, my kids born in the 1999s have seen gulf war 1, gulf war 2, Iraq and Afghanistan wars non stop, not a single day without Americans not killing some "enemy" somewhere over there. What's wrong with this picture? If poor countries in this world would act out the way Americans do, they would kill each other but they don't, they still know human values: decency, non violence, interconnectedness. Americans starting from the top, treat each other as enemies why would they need outside enemies? Then Ivanka wonders why the media is so vicious to her father!
1
Well said, Gail. I can find no good reason for an average citizen to be walking around with an assault rifle. Perhaps we could start the conversation there.
2
As long as there are powerful people making big bucks manufacturing and selling these weapons, nothing is likely to change. In America, money is king and God combined.
2
No one knows the names nor has seen the faces of the average of 33,000 Americans who die from gunshot every year except for their family, friends and neighbors. While 2/3rds or 22,000 of those who die from gunshot each year are suicides involving about 80% white men. Of the average of 93 people shot every day about 61 are suicides.
Mental illness is an obvious major factor in suicides and it may also be a factor in some homicides. A lack of adequate proper and necessary mental health treatment is the most significant meaningful American gun control problem. Allowing persons with mental illness to buy and possess guns is the deadliest American affair.
Mental illness is an obvious major factor in suicides and it may also be a factor in some homicides. A lack of adequate proper and necessary mental health treatment is the most significant meaningful American gun control problem. Allowing persons with mental illness to buy and possess guns is the deadliest American affair.
3
I was stuck at the car dealer repair shop yesterday while this was going on. Fox News was on in the wIting room. I got to hear the same old "guns don't kill people" line from an elderly gentleman. The argument is ridiculous but it gets repeated like a mantra. How is this a logical argument? Take guns away from people so they don't kill people. Or at least severely limit their availability.
Rational countries do this. From the U.K. to Japan there are fewer guns and gun deaths. Rational countries also have heLth care to cover trauma. Why is this country so off the mark when it comes to addressing the health and safety of citizens?
Rational countries do this. From the U.K. to Japan there are fewer guns and gun deaths. Rational countries also have heLth care to cover trauma. Why is this country so off the mark when it comes to addressing the health and safety of citizens?
On February 28, 2017 President Donald Trump signed a measure nixing a regulation aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of some severely mentally ill people.
Rhetoric cannot end the natural law of cause and effect matters.
Rhetoric cannot end the natural law of cause and effect matters.
4
Not to lessen the tragedy of the DC shooting, but the congressman who is in grave condition has a 100% NRA rating and voted against any meaningful control of guns. The suggestion that this horror will call us to dance together is absurd. The gang in control doesn't compromise and like me you are part of the 90% lower income, they have nothing for us!
3
Let's face it. If Newtown didn't do it, nothing will. We have not forgotten, and we have not forgiven. President Obama cried. We all did.
The NRA pushed harder than ever and the Republicans thought it was OK.
I sympathize with all those who have been affected by unwanted guns, gunshot wounds, deaths. It's not been fair and it's not been right.
We could say maybe people in Congress will come to their senses regarding gun laws, but I reiterate, if murdered six years olds can't change hearts, it's not going to happen. Republicans want less strict laws. And when a president talks about gunshots on 5th Avenue and still being loved, we've got a big problem that won't be fixed.
The NRA pushed harder than ever and the Republicans thought it was OK.
I sympathize with all those who have been affected by unwanted guns, gunshot wounds, deaths. It's not been fair and it's not been right.
We could say maybe people in Congress will come to their senses regarding gun laws, but I reiterate, if murdered six years olds can't change hearts, it's not going to happen. Republicans want less strict laws. And when a president talks about gunshots on 5th Avenue and still being loved, we've got a big problem that won't be fixed.
552
Trump is the worst for inciting violence.
2
@MIMA - Couldn't agree w/you more.
It's so incredibly obvious. Guns, unlike your washing machine, have an interminable shelf life if. Unless abused, they don't wear out. The only way gun manufacturers make more money is by making more guns. Making more guns requires making more buyers. To accomplish this, gun makers give a lot of $$ to the NRA who, after taking their cut give a lot of $$ to the republican party, who take their cut to maintain power. The party then creates hordes of fearsome boogey men that can only be stopped by an assault rifle (or several dozen in addition to multiple handguns), and voila - more buyers for more guns. A lot of bang for the bucks. The deaths of innocents, just a minor cost of doing business.
It's so incredibly obvious. Guns, unlike your washing machine, have an interminable shelf life if. Unless abused, they don't wear out. The only way gun manufacturers make more money is by making more guns. Making more guns requires making more buyers. To accomplish this, gun makers give a lot of $$ to the NRA who, after taking their cut give a lot of $$ to the republican party, who take their cut to maintain power. The party then creates hordes of fearsome boogey men that can only be stopped by an assault rifle (or several dozen in addition to multiple handguns), and voila - more buyers for more guns. A lot of bang for the bucks. The deaths of innocents, just a minor cost of doing business.
1
I suspect what will happen is that Congress will bar the public from sitting in the Capital galleries and bar us from public hearings. Then they will magically "find the money" to install bulletproof glass in all offices and hearing rooms in the Capital. They will take care of themselves at our expense once more time.
Sensible gun control? Don't make me laugh.
Sensible gun control? Don't make me laugh.
1
In the aftermath of yesterday's tragic shooting, the team captains Joe Barton (R-TX) and Mike Doyle (D-PA) appeared for an interview on PBS news. At one moment, in re-calling the shooting, Barton wept and Doyle took his arm. Sadly, a few moment later, Doyle felt he needed to apologize for crying.
Barton's weeping and Doyle's response were two honest, human responses to this tragedy. May we as a society learn to weep - together - embracing our shared humanity and common cause across our political divides. May we weep not only for the shooting of those in public office and their staffs, but over the lives daily taken in acts of overt violence - as well as through the violence of entrenched poverty.
And then, let us together seek the common good, refusing to demonize one another or to blame the victims.
Congressman Barton - no apology needed. Thank you for your tears. You reminded this Democrat of your humanity, something that I have been less and less able to keep in focus in the face of our toxic political polarization.
Barton's weeping and Doyle's response were two honest, human responses to this tragedy. May we as a society learn to weep - together - embracing our shared humanity and common cause across our political divides. May we weep not only for the shooting of those in public office and their staffs, but over the lives daily taken in acts of overt violence - as well as through the violence of entrenched poverty.
And then, let us together seek the common good, refusing to demonize one another or to blame the victims.
Congressman Barton - no apology needed. Thank you for your tears. You reminded this Democrat of your humanity, something that I have been less and less able to keep in focus in the face of our toxic political polarization.
156
Sorry to be a cynic, but my guess is Joe Barton will do nothing to stem the tide of gun violence as long as he's getting his bills paid by the NRA.
$31,500 as of 2016
Did he cry for the Newtown children?
Did he cry for Gabby Giffords?
The UPS employees?
The Columbine students?
The Charleston massacre victims?
Or any of the 6,900 dead in 2017 so far?
I'll cry tears of joy when all of these jokers who want nothing more than zero regulation on guns and fossil fuels get voted out of office.
$31,500 as of 2016
Did he cry for the Newtown children?
Did he cry for Gabby Giffords?
The UPS employees?
The Columbine students?
The Charleston massacre victims?
Or any of the 6,900 dead in 2017 so far?
I'll cry tears of joy when all of these jokers who want nothing more than zero regulation on guns and fossil fuels get voted out of office.
2
My heart goes out to the folks who were targets yesterday of a crazed gunman. I hope all can recover quickly and rebuild their lives.
What I don't understand is that even on the wake of this senseless act, the lawmakers shot still cling to their nonsense position that would have been safer if they were carrying on the baseball field. What in heavens name could they envision themselves doing? Holding an AK 47 in one hand and a baseball mitt in the other?
Yesterday was a horrid act of violence. They were sitting ducks in an open field. We are all grateful the capital detail was there to stop the madman. But let's s not kid ourselves....more carnage would have occurred if baseball players and passerbys in shock, started shooting too.
What I don't understand is that even on the wake of this senseless act, the lawmakers shot still cling to their nonsense position that would have been safer if they were carrying on the baseball field. What in heavens name could they envision themselves doing? Holding an AK 47 in one hand and a baseball mitt in the other?
Yesterday was a horrid act of violence. They were sitting ducks in an open field. We are all grateful the capital detail was there to stop the madman. But let's s not kid ourselves....more carnage would have occurred if baseball players and passerbys in shock, started shooting too.
256
I've always wondered, if cops show up at a shooting scene and half a dozen folks are blazing away at each other ... how do they determine who the bad guy is? Having everyone carry a gun solves nothing and would result in astronomical carnage.
1
Yes!
I am glad to hear both the Republicans and Democrats talking about coming together after this shooting. I also hope that Steve Scalise and the other victims of this shooting have a quick and full recovery from their wounds. Having said that I also wonder if Rep. Scalise isn't partially complicit in his own shooting. I say this after noting that the Representative has an A rating from the NRA. That means that he has voted in favor of reduced background checks, allowing mentally ill people to purchase guns, and the allowance of assault rifle's on the streets along with high-capacity magazines.
We have all got to come together and wake up from this gun madness that controls America.
We have all got to come together and wake up from this gun madness that controls America.
287
Why is the NYT failing to mention Scalise NRA rating? The Guardian thought it was relevant. Probably most people do.
1
Including allowing the ATF to use COMPUTERS to track gun sales and crimes-- the NRA ( in it's inimitable "wisdom") got Congress to bar ATF FROM USING COMPUTERS to track gun crimes!
As I recall, there was a moment of comity following Gabby Gifford's assassination attempt. That lasted about as long as a gnat can hold a thought. Gun control came up, too, then went down like the Hindenburg. The NRA will not soften its "Arm'em all and let God sort it out" position. Getting your hopes up for anything more than more of the same is an exercise in disappointment and frustration.
By the way, I am guilty of my share of insults and name calling, in particular when Insulter-in-Chief Donald Trump is the subject. I apologize for none of it. When he does, I will.
Yesterday was Trump's first real Presidential Moment. He sounded contrite, wounded, almost. But today is another day. Let us hope it does not take a bullet passing through the flesh of another elected official on a daily basis to keep the president presidential. Unless he holsters his smart phone, we will soon regress to the norm.
By the way, I am guilty of my share of insults and name calling, in particular when Insulter-in-Chief Donald Trump is the subject. I apologize for none of it. When he does, I will.
Yesterday was Trump's first real Presidential Moment. He sounded contrite, wounded, almost. But today is another day. Let us hope it does not take a bullet passing through the flesh of another elected official on a daily basis to keep the president presidential. Unless he holsters his smart phone, we will soon regress to the norm.
179
Had the victim of the shooting been a Democrat, Trump would have been singing a different tune.
Thank you, Ms Collins. You are so right: "This is a righteous cause." Well said. As a nation, we deserve better than living through the wild west everyday, and no place should have to experience what Newtown, Connecticut went through and which, as you pointed out, in spite of the horror that occurred there, caused no willingness to change our national fascination with guns and our penchant for violent actions and reactions.
6
Yesterday's horrible event is far more about the intolerant political climatic than guns. We need to tone it down before it is too late. This starts at the top, with Trump, as we cannot look at people in government as good or evil. The left needs to recognize that we cannot show a severed head of Trump and somehow think it is funny. Or have a play in Central Park that shows Trump being killed. This needs to stop. There are too many crazy people out there who react to it. The next presidential election will come soon enough. We all need to get a life.
43
The political climate is every bit as heated and intolerant in the UK and other western societies, but they are not gunning each other down over it. In our country, there are literally more guns than people. Please wake up!
2
What are the 93 killings a day of other citizens about?
3
I think you are kidding yourself if you think that guns are not part of the equation in yesterday's event. No one is allowed to carry guns in Congress; why are they given a safe space when the rest of us don't have such a safe space? I am truly sorry for the serious wounds suffered away from that sanctuary and am also so thankful for the brave trio of Capitol police who kept the event from being a shooting-fish-in-a-barrel. There is much to be thankful for but the access to guns must be confronted dispassionately but responsibly.
Prayers for Rep. Scalise and his family and the other victims. Thank you, Gail, for a serious and heartfelt op-ed.
Prayers for Rep. Scalise and his family and the other victims. Thank you, Gail, for a serious and heartfelt op-ed.
From the article:
" if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform, it’s not likely that the wounding of several adults in Virginia will do the trick"
Not even when they are members of the House.
Let the Republicans stew in this for awhile. Let's see if anything comes from it.
" if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform, it’s not likely that the wounding of several adults in Virginia will do the trick"
Not even when they are members of the House.
Let the Republicans stew in this for awhile. Let's see if anything comes from it.
9
Remember Civics class? The class in which you learned that the democracy proper to a constitutional republic is not to be identified with majoritarian rule? In which you were taught that an authentic democracy is governance of, by and for a principled people?
The central democratic principle, of course, is the rule of law. The rule of law and other democratic institutions are designed to protect individuals against the dangers inherent to both dictatorial authoritarianism and majoritarian "populism": bias against and scapegoating of minorities, neglect of the vulnerable, rank political opportunism, consolidation of anti-democratic power, xenophobia, jingoism, abuse of power by governmental and economic elites, and conflicts of interest on the part of elected officials.
Is it time to turn our backs on such past ideals and to face present political realities?
Many believe or feel in their bones that the U.S. is now a “competitive authoritarianism,” a system in which democratic institutions remain, but wherein government officials abuse state power to aid their allies and disadvantage their adversaries—a system in which the considered preferences of the majority of citizens are ignored and abuses of power go beyond those associated with traditional patronage.
Could it be that polarization, political assassinations and other terrorist attacks are the foreseeable consequences as a once democratic people adapt to their new competitive-authoritarian circumstances?
The central democratic principle, of course, is the rule of law. The rule of law and other democratic institutions are designed to protect individuals against the dangers inherent to both dictatorial authoritarianism and majoritarian "populism": bias against and scapegoating of minorities, neglect of the vulnerable, rank political opportunism, consolidation of anti-democratic power, xenophobia, jingoism, abuse of power by governmental and economic elites, and conflicts of interest on the part of elected officials.
Is it time to turn our backs on such past ideals and to face present political realities?
Many believe or feel in their bones that the U.S. is now a “competitive authoritarianism,” a system in which democratic institutions remain, but wherein government officials abuse state power to aid their allies and disadvantage their adversaries—a system in which the considered preferences of the majority of citizens are ignored and abuses of power go beyond those associated with traditional patronage.
Could it be that polarization, political assassinations and other terrorist attacks are the foreseeable consequences as a once democratic people adapt to their new competitive-authoritarian circumstances?
5
Reading this column, I couldn't help think about a book I read several years ago, written by Drew Gilpin Faust, an historian and soon to be the retiring President of Harvard University. "This Republic of Suffering" portrayed how Americans of another, earlier era had to learn how to cope with the massive carnage of the Civil War and its death toll of 620,000 combatants.
According to Faust, early Americans grieved in the privacy of family and loved ones, but the Civil War forced the entire nation to confront the mass deaths of complete strangers. It was, Dr. Faust wrote, a seminal moment in our history when all citizens learned how to mourn publicly and as part of a community larger than themselves. With that War fresh in memory, we moved on resolved to never battle one another again.
Something similar faces this nation today. We don't do mass shootings well. The toll from gun-related violence continues to rise, but rather than mourning the violence and the loss of life, we have retreated into our homes and private thoughts, unable to "come together" to address the scourge of gun-assisted violence.
We've reverted to the way things were prior to the Civil War, the fabric of nation torn and torned, but with an overly-armed citizenry unable to grieve. These United States are dripping blood, not in open warfare, but in the everyday occurrence of anonymous death by gunfire. Something needs to give.
According to Faust, early Americans grieved in the privacy of family and loved ones, but the Civil War forced the entire nation to confront the mass deaths of complete strangers. It was, Dr. Faust wrote, a seminal moment in our history when all citizens learned how to mourn publicly and as part of a community larger than themselves. With that War fresh in memory, we moved on resolved to never battle one another again.
Something similar faces this nation today. We don't do mass shootings well. The toll from gun-related violence continues to rise, but rather than mourning the violence and the loss of life, we have retreated into our homes and private thoughts, unable to "come together" to address the scourge of gun-assisted violence.
We've reverted to the way things were prior to the Civil War, the fabric of nation torn and torned, but with an overly-armed citizenry unable to grieve. These United States are dripping blood, not in open warfare, but in the everyday occurrence of anonymous death by gunfire. Something needs to give.
17
A plain reading of the Second Amendment shows that the intent of the amendment was to provide for an armed militia back when the militia was the basic form of national defense. That obviously is no longer true but the outdated amendment is still on the books. Even the Supreme Court has strangely ruled that the amendment somehow confers a personal right to own firearms. A large part of the problem is the NRA which is often described as basically a shill for gun manufacturers. The NRA even goes so far as to rate politicians according to how well they conform to the aims of that organization. Politicians with high NRA ratings should be voted out of office. Let the politicians worry about the voters rather than the NRA.
19
NRA members who disagree with the organizations policies - and it is said there are many - should vote with their figurative feet. Resign from the organization and deprive them of your dues. It won't hurt *you* and if enough of you stand up and say "enough" it sure could help the rest of us.
We could learn so much from Australia and other countries, but we won't. Our Lobbies are way too strong.
21
The climate of at least minimal cooperation in Washington, DC, was broken, most likely intentionally, by Newt Gingrich back in the 1990s. He ushered in the era of "no compromise, ever" (since made even more adamant) and told members NOT to bring their families to live in DC, creating hostile strangers across party lines.
If Congress wants to change the atmosphere of constant tension, some suggestions:
1. Schedule another baseball (or softball) game within the next month and DON'T divide it by political parties. Put Democrats and Republicans together on the same team, call them team A and team B. Do this repeatedly.
2. Schedule the game on a weekend so that afterward everyone can meet and talk about what is needed to calm things down and find anything on which they can agree.
3. Don't let consultants decide how to take a divisive stand on issues in order to win re-election. Kick the consultants down 10 notches in campaigns and out of the office when elected.
4. Find some new ways to include the public in the development of policy or legislative solutions. Get the public more involved and not just rich voters, working stiffs, too.
5. Stop trying rushing back and forth to your home districts every week. Move your families to the DC area, especially those with children. Most House members are in DC only 1 full day and 2 half days a week. The result is that people don't even know each other as human beings.
Stop the hate and constant demonization.
If Congress wants to change the atmosphere of constant tension, some suggestions:
1. Schedule another baseball (or softball) game within the next month and DON'T divide it by political parties. Put Democrats and Republicans together on the same team, call them team A and team B. Do this repeatedly.
2. Schedule the game on a weekend so that afterward everyone can meet and talk about what is needed to calm things down and find anything on which they can agree.
3. Don't let consultants decide how to take a divisive stand on issues in order to win re-election. Kick the consultants down 10 notches in campaigns and out of the office when elected.
4. Find some new ways to include the public in the development of policy or legislative solutions. Get the public more involved and not just rich voters, working stiffs, too.
5. Stop trying rushing back and forth to your home districts every week. Move your families to the DC area, especially those with children. Most House members are in DC only 1 full day and 2 half days a week. The result is that people don't even know each other as human beings.
Stop the hate and constant demonization.
30
The problem is the fund raising. They have to court the donors.
Better still, move out of the U.S. to a country that is civilised; leave the the failed state and forget about it. You only have one life, so get out of the U.S. and enjoy life while it lasts (and before you get "plugged" by some moronic zealot).
There should be evidence to support the story, to point to the story as evidence is circular logic, medical reports, ballistics, detritus etc. this is physical evidence but none of this real evidence exists to be scientifically objectively examined.
The gun debate really revolves about human nature. If the majority of people are good by nature, then everybody should have a gun, and there will be no crime, because the evildoers will be deterred or stopped immediately. However, if the majority of people are bad by nature, then nobody except law enforcement should have a gun, as people will use those guns to commit crimes, which the minority will be unable to prevent.
This, of course, presupposes that all good people will want the bother of having a gun with them at all times, which many people may find a burden and a responsibility they don't wish to assume. In that case, the majority of gun owners would be the bad guys, and crime would increase. I believe this is a logical and apolitical way of framing the debate.
This, of course, presupposes that all good people will want the bother of having a gun with them at all times, which many people may find a burden and a responsibility they don't wish to assume. In that case, the majority of gun owners would be the bad guys, and crime would increase. I believe this is a logical and apolitical way of framing the debate.
1
This also assumes universal competence. It presumes that someone who bought a gun 5 years ago and might use it once a year at a gun club range is ready to respond appropriately in the instant panic of a shooting situation.
Would you freeze and do nothing? Would you fire at anything that moves regardless of whether it's the shooter or a bystander? Would you shoot other defenders thinking they were attackers ("friendly fire")?
Police and military undergo regular detailed and realistic training to prepare for such events even though most officers may go their entire career without being part of a live fire event. Why do we assume that armed neighbor is competent and would not merely compound the crisis if they found themselves in a life fire situation.
Would you freeze and do nothing? Would you fire at anything that moves regardless of whether it's the shooter or a bystander? Would you shoot other defenders thinking they were attackers ("friendly fire")?
Police and military undergo regular detailed and realistic training to prepare for such events even though most officers may go their entire career without being part of a live fire event. Why do we assume that armed neighbor is competent and would not merely compound the crisis if they found themselves in a life fire situation.
4
I have no interest in owning, carrying, firing, protecting, securing a gun. I resent the idea I should carry one to ensure my own well-being in a wealthy democracy that offers public schooling and a host of other services to all of its residents. That is just ridiculous.
I don't think this is a reasonable way to frame the debate. Instead, I'd offer two thoughts:
1) The culture of violence in the US is a problem. TV shows during prime time (when kids are still up) are violent. Video games are violent. We should think hard about replacing some of that programming with something that is better.
2) Weapons fall along a continuum from BB guns to nuclear weapons. The Second Amendment does not entitle citizens to own and discharge weapons along that entire continuum. It does not say that civilians are entitled to own and use everything the military uses. So the question is where to draw the line (between civilian and military use). I'd argue that assault rifles and big ammo packs should be ruled out for civilians.
We need to reduce the number of weapons and the desire to use them.
I don't think this is a reasonable way to frame the debate. Instead, I'd offer two thoughts:
1) The culture of violence in the US is a problem. TV shows during prime time (when kids are still up) are violent. Video games are violent. We should think hard about replacing some of that programming with something that is better.
2) Weapons fall along a continuum from BB guns to nuclear weapons. The Second Amendment does not entitle citizens to own and discharge weapons along that entire continuum. It does not say that civilians are entitled to own and use everything the military uses. So the question is where to draw the line (between civilian and military use). I'd argue that assault rifles and big ammo packs should be ruled out for civilians.
We need to reduce the number of weapons and the desire to use them.
4
let me know how you feel after carrying a concealed weapon as a private citizen, let's say after 10 years. Not a bother or a burden! Your 'bad guys' outcome is logically false.
1
“We are strongest when we are unified and when we work together for the common good,” said Donald Trump.
Yeah, and we have not been either unified nor working together for a very long time. Trump did not start it, but it got worse with him. That was not all his doing either.
Yeah, and we have not been either unified nor working together for a very long time. Trump did not start it, but it got worse with him. That was not all his doing either.
17
Says the demented president who bullied his way into office with insults, divisionary rhetoric and threats.
1
We've been doing as you suggest G. But as long as the state next to us does nothing and people are allowed to drive across the border any step forward is truly meaningless. We need Congress to get behind this.
20
"...the representatives and senators do still get together every year to yell good-natured insults at each other and play ball, Democrats against Republicans." I'd be more enthusiastic about "partisanship" happening on the baseball field if the teams were chosen randomly - perhaps names picked by a computer, so the teams are mixed - Repubs with the Dems with the Indies (like the women's team). Even though it may seem trivial, forming groups around alliances already deeply established makes for more division, rather than less.
34
Mental health problems are at the center of every mass shooting event in our country. ObamaCare legislation established that all health insurance policies provide mental health services coverage commensurate with its other benefits. ObamaCare legislation is an antidote to the gun violence epidemic. TrumpCare discussions leave out this important component of health insurance regulation. Do not repeal; simply improve ObamaCare.
65
It is really bad public mental health policy to arm up citizens to shoot each other while treating guns as God-given icons of political expression.
As I watched the evening news last night, the day of the baseball shooting, on two channels (recorded CBS and ABC), I was struck by two things. 1. The rush of police and journalists to rush to document the seedy side of the shooter; homeless, criminal record (almost none), living out of a gym bag, unemployed, shooting pine trees in his environment. In other words, the typical "make him a scapegoat." No mention of research into any reasonable grievances (ok, not suited to shooting, but still...). No one was killed in the incident. 2. The second story on the broadcasts, was the horrific towering inferno in London, where many complete innocents died (17 as of this moment) in a tragedy that surely was the more important story. Pelley and Muir rushed in Washington DC (where no one was killed) while the other story (where residents threw themselves and their babies from upper stories) received scant attention. As far as Paul Ryan's floor of Congress speech, I have heard that before when organizations are under fire for failing their constituencies. It's a slightly reworded, "Either we hang together, or we hang separately." Any violence is horrible, but let's have some perspective here. Please.
19
The key phrase here is "failing their constituencies". That is at the heart of Americans' anger and division!
It is important to remember how this national worship of guns got started. On the frontier, guns were useful in harvesting bush meat for the dinner table. But that's not why we have the Second Amendment. The "well regulated Militia" that required "the people to keep and bear Arms" were slave patrollers. They were the infrastructure of white supremacy. For a brief period they morphed into the Confederate Army. That legacy is the reason we cannot have British or Australian type gun control in this country. It's all about race.
36
Really? I though the framers were thinking about revolution and freedom from tyranny and it was 1776, not 1861. Something to do with oppressive government vs. representative government? I know Trump said something about Jackson and the civil war, but are you now suggesting it was Washington and Jefferson as well?
1
Yes, the American gun cult treats deadly weapons as God-given vehicles of political expression that birthed the American Revolution.
4
Wow, I never grasped this. An article on this topic, in depth, would be a great contribution.
1
Thank you for bringing up the gun issue. I cannot listen to anymore of "it is a time to come together".
Sadly, I agree that if nothing changed as a result of 20 first graders being gunned down, then there is zero chance this will bring about sensible gun legislation. To the contrary, Congress passed legislation in February allowing those with mental illnesses the ability to purchase guns. I hope that all of our elected officials that voted in favor of that legislation are taking a good look in the mirror today.
Sadly, I agree that if nothing changed as a result of 20 first graders being gunned down, then there is zero chance this will bring about sensible gun legislation. To the contrary, Congress passed legislation in February allowing those with mental illnesses the ability to purchase guns. I hope that all of our elected officials that voted in favor of that legislation are taking a good look in the mirror today.
145
"Congress passed legislation in February allowing those with mental illnesses the ability to purchase guns"
Thanks for reminding us of this, but to emphasize who did this,
Republicans in Congress, over the strong objections of Democrats, passed legislation in February allowing those with mental illnesses the ability to purchase guns
Thanks for reminding us of this, but to emphasize who did this,
Republicans in Congress, over the strong objections of Democrats, passed legislation in February allowing those with mental illnesses the ability to purchase guns
48
You are too gentle, Gail - if only all those little kids at Sandy Hook had been lucky enough that day to have a Congressperson present with his security detail, who could fire back at some nut with a gun.
Also, we wonder how many of the Congressmen present yesterday were in Congress when GOP'ers deliberately let the assault weapons ban expire in 2004:
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-did-the-assault-weapons-ban-expire-20...
And, how many of those exact same Congressmen were/are still supporters of legislation to further loosen our gun laws on which a hearing that was scheduled yesterday (quickly canceled) that :
" would make it easier to purchase silencers, transport guns across state lines and ease restrictions on armor-piercing bullets "
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/gun-legislation-hearing-congressi...
Let's have a show of hands.
Also, we wonder how many of the Congressmen present yesterday were in Congress when GOP'ers deliberately let the assault weapons ban expire in 2004:
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-did-the-assault-weapons-ban-expire-20...
And, how many of those exact same Congressmen were/are still supporters of legislation to further loosen our gun laws on which a hearing that was scheduled yesterday (quickly canceled) that :
" would make it easier to purchase silencers, transport guns across state lines and ease restrictions on armor-piercing bullets "
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/politics/gun-legislation-hearing-congressi...
Let's have a show of hands.
174
What I find interesting is the level of wailing on the right over being "targeted" at the "killing field" by a citizen who, BTW, was exercising his Second Amendment right to stand his ground against a perceived threat.
Welcome to our world, gentlemen--a world where a random shooter can ruin your whole day while you are enjoying a game in the great outdoors--a world y'all have worked hard over decades to create.
PS: We don't have armed security watching over us.
Welcome to our world, gentlemen--a world where a random shooter can ruin your whole day while you are enjoying a game in the great outdoors--a world y'all have worked hard over decades to create.
PS: We don't have armed security watching over us.
1
The single act that might actually transform the gun culture here in he US is if we the people demand that our legislators pass a law which allows guns to be carried by both citizens and legislators alike in federal office buildings, especially including Congress.
26
There was a time when members of Congress all, or virtually all, possessed guns. They would settle their disagreements with duels. You insult me! Let's meet at dawn tomorrow. Was that a better world than today?
Just as we have much better built, faster cars, guns at present are far more lethal, efficient and compact than in times past. We need to understand that there are moments when even the most careful person in the world is not rational. This usually happens when anger overcomes judgement and, if only for a few moments, the person feels prepared to commit any act of violence that might assuage those emotions. A weapon in hand makes murder much more likely.
Consider, also, this: somehow most of the 340+ million citizens of this nation manage to make it through day after day without a weapon at their side. This is an indicator of a society that is trying to pursue peace over violence, even though it is difficult and sometimes contradictory with immediate circumstances.
Just as we have much better built, faster cars, guns at present are far more lethal, efficient and compact than in times past. We need to understand that there are moments when even the most careful person in the world is not rational. This usually happens when anger overcomes judgement and, if only for a few moments, the person feels prepared to commit any act of violence that might assuage those emotions. A weapon in hand makes murder much more likely.
Consider, also, this: somehow most of the 340+ million citizens of this nation manage to make it through day after day without a weapon at their side. This is an indicator of a society that is trying to pursue peace over violence, even though it is difficult and sometimes contradictory with immediate circumstances.
141
@ Doug Terry,
I actually would hope that the legislation would not pass for the reasons you stated. However, I do believe that merely the act of demanding such legislation be passed would force Congress to finally confront the issue in a meaningful and significant way. Only when they feel the constant threat of an omni-present gun culture in the same way our citizens do, will the reasonable gun safety measures that the vast majority of Americans support ever become law.
I actually would hope that the legislation would not pass for the reasons you stated. However, I do believe that merely the act of demanding such legislation be passed would force Congress to finally confront the issue in a meaningful and significant way. Only when they feel the constant threat of an omni-present gun culture in the same way our citizens do, will the reasonable gun safety measures that the vast majority of Americans support ever become law.
9
Doug, it was a better world in that the guns were single-shot, manually loaded pistols. And duels would only injure the participants. Come to think of it, those were the guns that the Founders were thinking of when they decided on the necessity of a well-ordered militia.
1
"Write a letter. Call your representative. Hold a meeting." Gail, you mean well. Those steps are all well and good. And won't work here. No GOP Congress or President is going to enact sane gun laws. If they were, they would have done it.
43
"The drinking thing is pretty much over. "
As in the book " Bowling Alone", some of the patterns we've left behind, the bar after work being an example, we lose congeniality and connection while polarizing toward oppositional positions.
More drinking won't solve this problem but we need to find somewhere to start meeting up again.
As in the book " Bowling Alone", some of the patterns we've left behind, the bar after work being an example, we lose congeniality and connection while polarizing toward oppositional positions.
More drinking won't solve this problem but we need to find somewhere to start meeting up again.
12
How about a food pantry or soup kitchen or an after-school program? Perhaps "they" would come to see the humanity and stop gutting needed programs in favor of lining their own and their coporate masters' pockets.
Maureen Dowd suggested Obama to go out and drink with the lawmakers, when he was working non stop and as a hands on father and family man, wanted to spend time with his daughters and his beautiful wife.
2
Tragically the horse has long left the barn. Gun ownership and availability is so widespread that even stringent legislation, which will never happen, is not likely to significantly reduce the ease of the deranged from procuring high powered weapons, Nor can we depend upon a rational political process to resolve this problem in the foreseeable future.
Sometimes problems just don't have easy answers or simple solutions. This is one of them. The long term solution of course is to educate people that violence is unacceptable, back that up with reinforcing societal norms of behavior, and have societal safeguards in place to identify and treat the emotionally and mentally disturbed. Unfortunately, given the current political climate, Republicans seeking to drastically curtail spending while energizing their base will effectively prevent any movement in that direction and these problems will only worsen.
Sometimes problems just don't have easy answers or simple solutions. This is one of them. The long term solution of course is to educate people that violence is unacceptable, back that up with reinforcing societal norms of behavior, and have societal safeguards in place to identify and treat the emotionally and mentally disturbed. Unfortunately, given the current political climate, Republicans seeking to drastically curtail spending while energizing their base will effectively prevent any movement in that direction and these problems will only worsen.
13
There are existing laws that should keep criminals from obtaining guns, and rather strict laws about dealers and background checks. There's also a fairly sizable population of folks who, not so long ago, would have been in state institutions, but we can't afford that any more. Then there's the inexorable trajectory of meanness that has grown in our politics and spilled over into our every day lives. Let's not forget economic pressures that have marginalized a significant segment of the population and contributed to the resentment and disenfranchisement. We could talk about a deficit of personal responsibility and a vacuum of national dignity to round it all out. I'm sorry but it's about a whole lot more than just guns. Banning semi-autos won't do it, despite what Gail or the Brady bunch might advocate. Perhaps if some of the self righteousness of that "righteous" cause were to be reconsidered in light of real world evidence we could move forward. There is no way to close that barn door after the horses escape, especially after it's been burned down.
1
I believe we can control the use of guns by going to the source: the manufacturers. If every gun manufactured was carefully tracked and laws were in place regarding who they may be sold to (distribution), we could start to keep guns out of the hands of the citizenry, which should be our ultimate aim. Yes, some would still slip through and criminals always find a way, but average Joe Schmoe wouldn't know where to start or how to get their hands on an automatic weapon.
I oppose any effort to spend millions to provide security for our congressmen and women. If Congress persists in telling private citizens to protect themselves only with guns, rather than through even a small amount of gun control, then our esteemed congressman can take their own advice and arm themselves. It may sound harsh, but the idea of hearing the same old 2nd amendment line from our lawmakers while they hide behind armed guards is unthinkable duplicity. They get armed guards, the children of the South Side of Chicago get more guns. This is how a government loses its connection with the people - two sets of rules, two realities.
367
right on!
Nailed it.
I teach English in Southeast Asia to high school students preparing for Western universities. Every student with whom I speak about qualifying for study in the United States, without exception they won't consider it because they and their parents now perceive the USA as too violent and dangerous. These students, students who ten years ago would have aspired to study in the US, now aspire to attend universities in the U.K., including Australia and New Zealand. None will consider the US even when I mention the many scholarships available to the best students. Violence, violent talk of politicians, and the prospect of increasingly armed citizens reasonably frightens seemingly everyone in the world except those living with the problem of tens of gun victims on a daily basis.
253
Usually, a politician will have a "come to Jesus moment" and change sides. Like, if a critic of the gay lifestyle learns his or her child is gay.
I don't know if something similar will happen this time. I thought maybe, after Sandy Hook, Congress would have enacted something, even a token piece of legislation, making it a little more difficult for lunatic to acquire assault rifles.
No, I think nothing positive will happen after yesterday, except perhaps both sides of the aisle will try and seek common ground and stop the divisive rhetoric.
The gun violence will continue until money is taken out of politics.
I don't know if something similar will happen this time. I thought maybe, after Sandy Hook, Congress would have enacted something, even a token piece of legislation, making it a little more difficult for lunatic to acquire assault rifles.
No, I think nothing positive will happen after yesterday, except perhaps both sides of the aisle will try and seek common ground and stop the divisive rhetoric.
The gun violence will continue until money is taken out of politics.
52
It is not just money out of politics, it is also somehow removing money from glorifying violence, in movies, TV shows, violent video games and all the way up top to our lawmakers who constantly push for military solutions, wars and attacks on other nations abroad. Without learning anything from Vietnam, our country is once again getting ready to renew afghan troops reinforcements.
33
Money is only part of the problem, and it isn't even the biggest part. The GOP has been painting itself into a corner over gun rights since the 1990s, and every year they make that corner smaller by trying to prove they are more dedicated to the Second Amendment than any potential primary opponent. It's hard to see how they can top this year's crowning achievement--the securing of gun ownership rights for mentally ill citizens--but is there any doubt they will find a way?
Maybe we could use that bullheadedness against them. Instead of wasting more time and energy arguing for gun control, let's try provoking the gun rights crowd to insist that guns be allowed everywhere on Capitol Hill, and to accuse any GOP member who balks of insufficient dedication to the Second Amendment. Even if it doesn't push them out of the corner, it could make C-SPAN a whole lot more entertaining.
Maybe we could use that bullheadedness against them. Instead of wasting more time and energy arguing for gun control, let's try provoking the gun rights crowd to insist that guns be allowed everywhere on Capitol Hill, and to accuse any GOP member who balks of insufficient dedication to the Second Amendment. Even if it doesn't push them out of the corner, it could make C-SPAN a whole lot more entertaining.
1
Kevin, it didn't happen after Gabby Gifford, either. She, too, was "one of their own". If it didn't happen then, and heaven knows, after Sandy Hook, I think we're almost beyond hope.
Humans are smart but they are not realistic.
Stockpiling weapons is a gut reaction to fear. But financial hardship is more likely to be a part of your future than a marauding gang of armed burglars. Think how much better off the people of this country would be if instead of buying guns to assuage their fears, they start to look logically at problems they could very likely face in the future. Save and manage your money.
Stockpiling weapons is a gut reaction to fear. But financial hardship is more likely to be a part of your future than a marauding gang of armed burglars. Think how much better off the people of this country would be if instead of buying guns to assuage their fears, they start to look logically at problems they could very likely face in the future. Save and manage your money.
30
It's a righteous cause, no doubt, but it will fail as has every other attempt to control the situation.
11
I have nothing but sympathy for those at the baseball practice and am sure I would be just as emotional as they are, if not more so, but as I watched the coverage I kept wondering if they had any idea what life is like on a daily basis for those who live in crime-ridden areas or for those whom they send to fight around the globe.
I was rear-ended once and afterwards had what seemed to me to be a kind of PTSD. Although it did not even begin to compare to what others who suffer real trauma must be going through, it made made me much more aware of their situations.
What I hope this tragedy does is make us, especially those in Washington, more aware of not just the problem of guns in this country, but also of the vitriol and anger. Why are so many of us on edge all the time? Why do we feel the deck is stacked against us? Why do we call each other horrible names both on the internet and in person? Why is there so much road rage? Why do so many of us feel alone, without community?
The U.S. in number one in the world by far with regard to gun ownership per capita. Canada is pretty high on that list as well (number 12 by most counts), but their gun homicide rate is much lower than ours. Could it be that they are less on edge than we are because their society functions better for a greater number of people?
As we call our representatives let's make it clear that it is not just gun control we want, but a fairer, more equitable society.
I was rear-ended once and afterwards had what seemed to me to be a kind of PTSD. Although it did not even begin to compare to what others who suffer real trauma must be going through, it made made me much more aware of their situations.
What I hope this tragedy does is make us, especially those in Washington, more aware of not just the problem of guns in this country, but also of the vitriol and anger. Why are so many of us on edge all the time? Why do we feel the deck is stacked against us? Why do we call each other horrible names both on the internet and in person? Why is there so much road rage? Why do so many of us feel alone, without community?
The U.S. in number one in the world by far with regard to gun ownership per capita. Canada is pretty high on that list as well (number 12 by most counts), but their gun homicide rate is much lower than ours. Could it be that they are less on edge than we are because their society functions better for a greater number of people?
As we call our representatives let's make it clear that it is not just gun control we want, but a fairer, more equitable society.
160
Absolutely, Elizabeth. The toxicity in language, and the "us against them" mentality needs to stop. We are truly all in this together for the betterment of our society, and have lost our core values.
People's needs are not being met and they are debased for needing help.
People's needs are not being met and they are debased for needing help.
1
Really, Elizabeth? Nothing but sympathy? I find a little bitter humor in the fact that at least one of the Republicans shot did his darnedest to stymie gun control even after the carnage at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
It seems that the fatal mutilation of children, caused by multiple bullet wounds, did not move him.
So now an aggressive guy who's shown some evidence of having been a thorn in his neighbors' sides, and who carried Bernie Sanders placards, has shot a Republican, and suddenly Bernie Sanders -- not my favorite politician -- and the rest of us who advocate gun control -- which Mr. Sanders, to his shame, does not -- are supposed to feel contrition and nothing but sympathy.
Millions of people are losing their health care. Rational checks on corporate malfeasance, the rape of our countryside, rivers, and seas, disseminating false information, shutting down the EPA and quite probably the NIH, and other atrocities are what the Republicans are about.
For decades they have been murdering OB/GYNs who terminate pregnancies, bombing women's health clinics, threatening Democratic congresspeople, and this past year they cheered Donald Trump when he suggested that Second Amendment types kill Hillary Clinton.
So -- eh.
It seems that the fatal mutilation of children, caused by multiple bullet wounds, did not move him.
So now an aggressive guy who's shown some evidence of having been a thorn in his neighbors' sides, and who carried Bernie Sanders placards, has shot a Republican, and suddenly Bernie Sanders -- not my favorite politician -- and the rest of us who advocate gun control -- which Mr. Sanders, to his shame, does not -- are supposed to feel contrition and nothing but sympathy.
Millions of people are losing their health care. Rational checks on corporate malfeasance, the rape of our countryside, rivers, and seas, disseminating false information, shutting down the EPA and quite probably the NIH, and other atrocities are what the Republicans are about.
For decades they have been murdering OB/GYNs who terminate pregnancies, bombing women's health clinics, threatening Democratic congresspeople, and this past year they cheered Donald Trump when he suggested that Second Amendment types kill Hillary Clinton.
So -- eh.
1
I am attempting to understand why there seems to be surprise at what happened at this practice field, a soft target. There is a seething anger everywhere toward Republicans that was started a long time ago with motorists and citizens being killed by police but underscored by the tough talk of candidate trump to use physical violence against demonstrators, followed by a waive of physical violence against minorities and immigrants after the election. Did anyone really think that Progressives don’t own and know how to use guns?
While the president is trying to close down the borders with fear mongering, the problems with home-grown terrorists, and people who should not own guns, persist. If this is about “America First” then get the National House in order first.
While the president is trying to close down the borders with fear mongering, the problems with home-grown terrorists, and people who should not own guns, persist. If this is about “America First” then get the National House in order first.
68
This is an old story, but it bears repeating . For many years, the NRA was an association dedicated to hunters and sportsmen who encouraged gun registration and provided classes on gun safety and information to its adherents .
The NRA did not encourage people to own guns, nor did it opine on where guns should be allowed, it simply catered to the interests of gun owners . But gun manufacturers, disappointed by lagging sales, discovered and bought Lapierre and his coterie of "nut jobs" . And , through its massive corporate funding, it was thus able to purchase politicians, many of whom could not resist the easy money : all they had to do was to vote against anything that would limit the proliferation of weapons of any kind, anywhere, at any time (except, of course, in the hallowed halls of congress and state houses) .
Its final triumph was the omission of the first part of the Second Amendment on the face of the NRA's brand new headquarters with nary anyone noticing, muchless objecting .
If, as is widely reported, most of the NRA's membership is actually in favor of rational gun laws, including registration, one wonders why they keep paying their dues to an organization so unresponsive to their needs . Should they stop, the NRA would then officially what it really is to-day : a shill for gun manufacturers . It would no longer have to pretend to have an educational purpose, when the only lesson it seeks to teach is how to buy more and deadlier weapons .
The NRA did not encourage people to own guns, nor did it opine on where guns should be allowed, it simply catered to the interests of gun owners . But gun manufacturers, disappointed by lagging sales, discovered and bought Lapierre and his coterie of "nut jobs" . And , through its massive corporate funding, it was thus able to purchase politicians, many of whom could not resist the easy money : all they had to do was to vote against anything that would limit the proliferation of weapons of any kind, anywhere, at any time (except, of course, in the hallowed halls of congress and state houses) .
Its final triumph was the omission of the first part of the Second Amendment on the face of the NRA's brand new headquarters with nary anyone noticing, muchless objecting .
If, as is widely reported, most of the NRA's membership is actually in favor of rational gun laws, including registration, one wonders why they keep paying their dues to an organization so unresponsive to their needs . Should they stop, the NRA would then officially what it really is to-day : a shill for gun manufacturers . It would no longer have to pretend to have an educational purpose, when the only lesson it seeks to teach is how to buy more and deadlier weapons .
401
@pgd: A chicken in every pot and an AR-15 in every hand. That's what the NRA wants. Well.....they don't care about the chicken part. Which means there will be more active shooters as people are hurt by the Republicans' harsh and draconian budget.
Yet, of course, the guns will be banned and checked for in the Capitol. No guns in the Halls of Congress they say.
Hypocrites.
Yet, of course, the guns will be banned and checked for in the Capitol. No guns in the Halls of Congress they say.
Hypocrites.
4
Besides the halls of congress and state houses there is another office space guns are not allowed into: the offices of the NRA.
They know how dangerous those things are.
They know how dangerous those things are.
7
Because this is America, where stupidity abounds.
3
There is something, call it an illness or a sickness or whatever, but there is something that has taken hold in this country that has come to define America, and Americans, as violent...extremely, uncomprehendingly violent. I have just returned from a short vacation in the beautiful city and surrounding area of Vancouver, BC. To say that it was an enjoyment would be an understatement, the beauty and peacefulness of all its attractions so obvious. But, I would sadly describe my feeling as more just relief; not relief from a job or demands, but a "social relief". I say that because of one fact that took at least two days before becoming obvious to me - as I experienced most of the popular (and wonderful, btw) attractions while there, I finally realized what was missing...I never saw one armed police officer at any of the attractions, at the wharf, or on the street, other than a couple of incidents where they were responding to a specific call. Not one. That included at the most famous parks, even as I took a wind turbine tour on a mountain. Some of these attractions would seem inconceivable in the US, without massive military-style police presence at the very least. The idea that there wasn't a noticeable, and again hugely military-style police presence at the attractions, with the huge international tourist population was amazing enough; but I realized the impact was greater not seeing "cops on the street". What have we lost here in the US? So much.
98
I had the same experience in Vancouver a few years ago.
There's more: Walking along the streets, people made way for each other, as if realizing other people besides themselves exist. The only oversize pickup trucks were driven by actual workers who needed them. Multitudes commuted to jobs on their bicycles along bike paths that had pride of place along the peninsula's waterfronts. And those waterfronts? Most were public green spaces, where all citizens and tourists could enjoy them; they weren't closed-off, private retreats for only the wealthy.
Community spirit in action. When everyone belongs -- when there's not the sharp division between the haves and have-nots -- people can relax and focus on living, rather than on staying alive.
There's more: Walking along the streets, people made way for each other, as if realizing other people besides themselves exist. The only oversize pickup trucks were driven by actual workers who needed them. Multitudes commuted to jobs on their bicycles along bike paths that had pride of place along the peninsula's waterfronts. And those waterfronts? Most were public green spaces, where all citizens and tourists could enjoy them; they weren't closed-off, private retreats for only the wealthy.
Community spirit in action. When everyone belongs -- when there's not the sharp division between the haves and have-nots -- people can relax and focus on living, rather than on staying alive.
14
The American right-wing has elevated the 2nd Amendment to Mt. Rushmore, effectively replacing the 1st Amendment with the violent glory of 2nd Amendment Derangement Syndrome.
Responsible American politicians don't openly incite gun violence and fetishes by saying “If she (Hillary) gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”
Responsible American politicians don't openly foster unrestricted access to guns by mental defectives, but that's precisely what Donald Trump and the Guns Over People Congress did four months ago when they passed a law rescinding the Obama administration rule that required the Social Security Administration to submit records of mentally disabled people to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
The rule applies to about 75,000 people who were “adjudicated as a mental defective" who are on Social Security disability benefits.
These individuals suffer from schizophrenia, psychotic disorders and other mental problems to such an extent that they are unable to manage their financial affairs and other basic tasks without help.
The Obama rule also gave these individuals a right to appeal the ban.
The new Trump-GOP rule gives these individuals the right to shoot you.
The Republican 2nd Amendment is crystal clear:
"The right to be randomly slaughtered and maimed by a male mental defective shall not be infringed".
Banning common sense is really bad public policy.
Responsible American politicians don't openly incite gun violence and fetishes by saying “If she (Hillary) gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”
Responsible American politicians don't openly foster unrestricted access to guns by mental defectives, but that's precisely what Donald Trump and the Guns Over People Congress did four months ago when they passed a law rescinding the Obama administration rule that required the Social Security Administration to submit records of mentally disabled people to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.
The rule applies to about 75,000 people who were “adjudicated as a mental defective" who are on Social Security disability benefits.
These individuals suffer from schizophrenia, psychotic disorders and other mental problems to such an extent that they are unable to manage their financial affairs and other basic tasks without help.
The Obama rule also gave these individuals a right to appeal the ban.
The new Trump-GOP rule gives these individuals the right to shoot you.
The Republican 2nd Amendment is crystal clear:
"The right to be randomly slaughtered and maimed by a male mental defective shall not be infringed".
Banning common sense is really bad public policy.
624
What is so sad for me is that the 75,000 people that are affected by that change are likely not even to want a gun. What they may want is food, shelter and treatment that they can afford. And we withhold that but offer them the right to a gun. I'm sure they now feel so much better.
55
When will Americans realize that it is not just the "mentally defective" that are using guns to kill each other? It's easy to pin the blame on some kind of mental instability, when in fact, most shootings are not committed by people with diagnosed mental problems. Removing their right to buy a gun would just eliminate one or two drops in an otherwise huge bucket. As a Canadian, I just don't "get" the need to own a gun for self-defence, since it never seems to help. Whenever one of these mass shootings occurs, one would presume that well-armed citizens would be shooting back. The reality is that only the police and other security types have sufficient training to deal with such a threat.
8
Another side to this is that mentally disturbed people are far more likely to kill themselves if they have guns. The law was also protecting them from themselves. Speaking from personal experience, my cousin.. a paranoid schizophrenic killed himself with a gun. Reversing the Obama law is unconscionable for severely mentally ill citizens and their families, not to mention society at large.
4
The heart of peace demands a hard truth: on bigger playing fields, rhetoric and greed are silent killers--scattered statistics of 3 million dead from loss of healthcare over the next decade doesn't risk reelection or gain the attention of the single incident of a high profile shooting—yet the Washington Post reports 155 mass shootings of 4 or more persons in the first 164 days of 2017.
The 155th struck a high level legislator of a party known for divisive, raw edged criticism--and calls and incidents of violence (2nd amendment solutions, bomb hell out of them, body slammed reporters), lies and hyperbole about violence (invented massacres, denied incitement, the politics of grief) the thought that violence is patriotic (Trump's followers expressed a need for “doing what needs to be done, were ”willing to “taking matters into their own hands,” “looking for revolution.”).
The nation deflects from violence as it wallows in grief, blame, and silence: an US military night raid in Yemen killed an 8 year old American girl—and 8 other children. (Called a success; it goal was computer hard drives,)
In an unrecognized irony of wealth, its excess creates waste. Toxic within society, its unemployment and poverty, its politics of blame and scapegoating, its diversion from truth, its hate and lies poison and corrupt the social order. Deep down, the politicians and the rich knew violence was the next step. Ignore the sham of unity: their actions imply the call for it again.
The 155th struck a high level legislator of a party known for divisive, raw edged criticism--and calls and incidents of violence (2nd amendment solutions, bomb hell out of them, body slammed reporters), lies and hyperbole about violence (invented massacres, denied incitement, the politics of grief) the thought that violence is patriotic (Trump's followers expressed a need for “doing what needs to be done, were ”willing to “taking matters into their own hands,” “looking for revolution.”).
The nation deflects from violence as it wallows in grief, blame, and silence: an US military night raid in Yemen killed an 8 year old American girl—and 8 other children. (Called a success; it goal was computer hard drives,)
In an unrecognized irony of wealth, its excess creates waste. Toxic within society, its unemployment and poverty, its politics of blame and scapegoating, its diversion from truth, its hate and lies poison and corrupt the social order. Deep down, the politicians and the rich knew violence was the next step. Ignore the sham of unity: their actions imply the call for it again.
81
Very, very disappointed this in not a NYT pick. Walter nailed it in 1500 characters.
It is time to end the false equivalencies that pervade the media and right wing blogs. White nationalism, or at the very least ultra right wing extremism runs rampant through this country. Power hungry and greedy politicians, our so called elected representatives tap the deluded and gullible for money and votes. It's pathetic. It's depraved.
As, I have said for weeks, we're on the road to perdition. Americans are too arrogant to understand that this is a failed state hijacked by a bunch of plutocrats who have found a conduit through the Republican Party to gain control of government and gain a lock on income and wealth inequality.
It is time to end the false equivalencies that pervade the media and right wing blogs. White nationalism, or at the very least ultra right wing extremism runs rampant through this country. Power hungry and greedy politicians, our so called elected representatives tap the deluded and gullible for money and votes. It's pathetic. It's depraved.
As, I have said for weeks, we're on the road to perdition. Americans are too arrogant to understand that this is a failed state hijacked by a bunch of plutocrats who have found a conduit through the Republican Party to gain control of government and gain a lock on income and wealth inequality.
9
Here's another Old Liberal who would like to agree with these sentiments. I always appreciate Mr. Hett's posts, but this one is nothing short of magnificent.
We are shouting into a wind tunnel.
For every call to reduce gun violence, there will be someone who will ask which gun control measure would have stopped this particular shooting. And the we will go back the inevitable cycle not even trying.
And so I will repeat: our national policy on guns is founded on the basic idea that the 33,00 a year who die from gun violence are a reasonable cost for the benefit of the broadest interpretation of the second amendment. it is just unfortunate that many of the people paying the cost didn't volunteer.
How do you argue with that?
For every call to reduce gun violence, there will be someone who will ask which gun control measure would have stopped this particular shooting. And the we will go back the inevitable cycle not even trying.
And so I will repeat: our national policy on guns is founded on the basic idea that the 33,00 a year who die from gun violence are a reasonable cost for the benefit of the broadest interpretation of the second amendment. it is just unfortunate that many of the people paying the cost didn't volunteer.
How do you argue with that?
114
Ask them what happened to the "well-regulated militia" part of the 2A?
2
Our stigmatization of mental and behavioral health in this country should also be considered when discussing gun violence. We need to start thinking of mental health the same way we do w/ our physical health so it can become more widely acceptable to regularly maintain our mental health w/ out fear of judgment from friends, family et al. So people have mental health crisis services available when they need them. When it's easier to buy a gun than it is to access mental health services, it's not surprising we see so much repeated gun violence in this country.
28
Our fearless leaders want to repeal health insurance for millions, making mental health care out of reach for all but the wealthiest. Expect more violence.
2
Gail, I admire your spirit in this spiritless age: "You can demand laws to keep criminals from buying guns, or laws to keep greedy gun sellers from ignoring background checks, or laws to ban rifles that allow one person to take down several dozen victims without reloading. Even if your hopes aren’t high, keep fighting. This is a righteous cause."
I've long felt that when gun violence comes close to home, legislators will act. Perhaps yesterday's baseball game won't cut it, but at least for 24 hours politicians put unity before passion, comity before crazy 2nd amendment slogans.
Sandy Hook changed President Obama, in ways hard to define. He cried in public and expressed an anger so fierce I surely thought this time, this is it.
It remains to be see if Donald Trump will undergo a similar shock effect, but allegedly, he was shaken.
When violence hits home, people can, and do, change their thinking. Joe Scarborough did after Sandy Hook. Republicans can too. All it takes is the will to say, enough with tainted NRA money.
Take out the financial incentive, and I suspect policy could, and would, change.
I've long felt that when gun violence comes close to home, legislators will act. Perhaps yesterday's baseball game won't cut it, but at least for 24 hours politicians put unity before passion, comity before crazy 2nd amendment slogans.
Sandy Hook changed President Obama, in ways hard to define. He cried in public and expressed an anger so fierce I surely thought this time, this is it.
It remains to be see if Donald Trump will undergo a similar shock effect, but allegedly, he was shaken.
When violence hits home, people can, and do, change their thinking. Joe Scarborough did after Sandy Hook. Republicans can too. All it takes is the will to say, enough with tainted NRA money.
Take out the financial incentive, and I suspect policy could, and would, change.
121
Take out financial incentive, where, how. There was a lobbyist playing with the republican team. Hollywood constantly glorifies violence and exports it to other countries. Media and TV shows amplify violent acts by replaying them 24/7. Today's children think holocaust, genocides are human normalcies because collectively as human beings we have learned nothing.
3
SOme of you us say stricter gns laws will help. Others say make it easier for people to have guns to defend the,selves.
While I believe less people should be carrying guns around, I also believe we have to address the conditions that cause people to see gun violence as the answer. The list is long but I believe top on the list would be violence on tv and in the movies. And when Trump was running for president he definitely encouraged people to use violence against those that didn't support him.
Killing is not the answer now and never was the answer.
While I believe less people should be carrying guns around, I also believe we have to address the conditions that cause people to see gun violence as the answer. The list is long but I believe top on the list would be violence on tv and in the movies. And when Trump was running for president he definitely encouraged people to use violence against those that didn't support him.
Killing is not the answer now and never was the answer.
20
"The list is long but I believe top on the list would be violence on tv and in the movies."
Looking for an easy scapegoat is not the answer. I disagree that fictional depictions of violence have anything to do with these events: deranged people such as this shooter need no outside stimulus for their violent acts.
Looking for an easy scapegoat is not the answer. I disagree that fictional depictions of violence have anything to do with these events: deranged people such as this shooter need no outside stimulus for their violent acts.
7
I agree that blaming violent TV and movies is scapegoating, but the truth is that no one knows what kind of stimulus, from outside or inside, can trigger violent acts. It could be politics or it could be religion. Or it could be a voice in the shooter's head that says there is a heroic mission that requires innocent people to suffer.
The chances any of us will be involved in a terrorist act are infinitesimal. Unfortunately, the odds are greatly enhanced for being shot. People ought to be thinking about what that means and what we ought to be trying to do about it. Mental health services and better background checks for gun purchases come to mind as places to start.
The chances any of us will be involved in a terrorist act are infinitesimal. Unfortunately, the odds are greatly enhanced for being shot. People ought to be thinking about what that means and what we ought to be trying to do about it. Mental health services and better background checks for gun purchases come to mind as places to start.
8
It is ridiculous to state that the environment we live in does not stimulate our actions. How else do babies learn anything except by observation. Ones environment conditions one to emulate what they see. Racism for instance is not in us at birth. It is mostly learned from the environment one grows up in. Many other traits are also observed. Maybe violence on TV and movies does not incite a single act, but years of observing anything has to have an effect. Too bad TV and movies do not teach compassion and reasoning instead.
3
I listened to Texas Rep Roger "Real and Replace Obamacare" Williams talk about his plans to fly home to Texas after today's game to consult with his own orthopedic surgeon. One can only hope he (not to mention so many other Repubs) might gain an ounce of empathy as a result of this incident.
42
Isn't he fortunate to have the congressional health plan to pay for his visit? Now if the senate's unknown version of an ACA passes, others will not be so lucky.
Maybe he should visit a DC veteran's hospital? Surely they have a board certified orthopod on staff.
Maybe he should visit a DC veteran's hospital? Surely they have a board certified orthopod on staff.
15
Gaining an ounce of empathy versus gaining a ton of NRA cash. We already know who will win that battle.
10
Oops - should be "Repeal"
Americans love guns. In a nation that glorifies rugged individualism far more than the common good, the gun has become the ultimate expression of individuality. The right wing NRA will not stop until everyone is required to own a gun and is required to trade for a new one on a regular basis. The are after all sales reps for the gun manufacturers.
Remember all the old western movies, the tall dark stranger administering frontier justice with a six shooter or a Winchester? Remember Dirty Harry? Somehow too many of us fantasize about settling scores and using a gun as the great equalizer.
The comment about needing more women in Congress is so true. Perhaps is is the only way to lessen this macho fixation. Do we really want a society where everyone at any minute has the ability to deliver lethal force? Do even a small number of us have the judgement and character to handle such responsibility? Law enforcement people are trained is this but are often mistaken in the heat of battle.
Perhaps the real problem is that we are not one nation anymore. "We have met the enemy and them is us".
Remember all the old western movies, the tall dark stranger administering frontier justice with a six shooter or a Winchester? Remember Dirty Harry? Somehow too many of us fantasize about settling scores and using a gun as the great equalizer.
The comment about needing more women in Congress is so true. Perhaps is is the only way to lessen this macho fixation. Do we really want a society where everyone at any minute has the ability to deliver lethal force? Do even a small number of us have the judgement and character to handle such responsibility? Law enforcement people are trained is this but are often mistaken in the heat of battle.
Perhaps the real problem is that we are not one nation anymore. "We have met the enemy and them is us".
101
The unstable gunman was a canary in a coalmine of crazy that has befallen our country. Nothing excuses what he did, but we’re going to want to find reasons for his actions. These will include the problem of letting unstable people acquire weapons, along with the casual devaluation of human life that makes the Black Lives Matter movement necessary.
But Kathy Griffin also provided another clue when she apologized for her cringingly tasteless presidential decapitation gag. She said, “He broke me. He broke me.” Symbolic murderous violence is not my go-to reaction to political angst, but I understood what she meant. I keep feeling that I’ll wake up, and that the last two years will have been nothing but a bad dream.
This comes on the heels of a mounting of the play “Julius Caesar,” in which the doomed Roman dictator is sporting a dark suit and a long red tie instead of a toga. Bank of America, thinking this went too far, expressed its distaste by withdrawing its sponsorship of the play. They then went back to throwing people out of their foreclosed homes.
We live in broken times. Broken people will react badly. The innocent and the guilty alike will be trodden upon in the stampede that has been precipitated by our unprecedented political turmoil. Tomorrow, some will say that the tragedy could have been averted if only there had been more guns.
Et tu, Congress?
But Kathy Griffin also provided another clue when she apologized for her cringingly tasteless presidential decapitation gag. She said, “He broke me. He broke me.” Symbolic murderous violence is not my go-to reaction to political angst, but I understood what she meant. I keep feeling that I’ll wake up, and that the last two years will have been nothing but a bad dream.
This comes on the heels of a mounting of the play “Julius Caesar,” in which the doomed Roman dictator is sporting a dark suit and a long red tie instead of a toga. Bank of America, thinking this went too far, expressed its distaste by withdrawing its sponsorship of the play. They then went back to throwing people out of their foreclosed homes.
We live in broken times. Broken people will react badly. The innocent and the guilty alike will be trodden upon in the stampede that has been precipitated by our unprecedented political turmoil. Tomorrow, some will say that the tragedy could have been averted if only there had been more guns.
Et tu, Congress?
629
About the Julius Caesar play: This shows American's basic ignorance. Anyone familiar with the play would know that the killing in the first Act is made to look as horrifying as it is later in the play. It is more a piece about not killing than the killing everyone is focusing on. Please read the play and understand its real meaning. The corporate sponsors showed both their lack of knowlege of Shakespeare and a willingness to avoid any controversy despite the facts. Sad.
8
How many people who own guns are stable? How many people who can shoot a living being is stable?
Look around you. Count the number of stable gunslingers.
Look around you. Count the number of stable gunslingers.
2
It is also interesting to note that there had been a staging of Julius Caesar where the main character was portrayed as Obama. Where was the outcry against the implicit violence when that production was presented? Oh, yes, because Obama was a Kenyan-born Muslim he was fair game--we all knew he wasn't a REAL president, right? The hypocrisy of the right is enough to choke a goat. That said, what happened yesterday was appalling and there is no justification for it, regardless of how virulent the political discourse.
9
Better and stricter gun laws would surely be a good thing. But it’s a delusion to suppose that laws were ever the cause or could ever be the cure of America’s mass obsession with firearms.
30
A cure? no, but most of us would be happy with stricter gun laws as a mitigating factor. See, e.g., Australia.
3
The irony here is that the people attacked are among those most responsible for allowing pretty much anyone to buy and use a deadly weapon. Also, I notice that our President responded a lot faster to this tragedy than he did to the murders in Portland a few weeks ago.
538
Not the response we were hoping for and since there is nothing any Republicans could ever do to placate you I guess it would be better to just be silent
The only person who died in Alexandria was the shooter. The shooting at the UPS facility in San Francisco the same day killed three and was hardly national news -- just another deranged loser with a gun killing ordinary people.
4
I find it ironic that a Pres who for two years has blatantly incited division and violence with his racist rhetoric is invoking unity--what a damned hypocrite! He has brought out the very worst prejudices in our citizens and then cued them to violence against others! Another irony is those Republicans who trashed Pres.Obama for 8 years and refused to pass needed gun control legislation to protect our citizens--are now victims of their OWN failure to act and do their job after the Sandy Hook massacre!
7
I used to be a more or less rabid gun-control supporter, until I had a conversation with a similarly, but less rabidly minded friend who asked, "Do you know how many guns there are out there?" Completely stopping the sale of only semi-automatic and automatic weapons in the country would leave the population outnumbered by such weapons. And a prohibition . . . well, we've been there with stuff as weak as 3.2 beer, haven't we, and what did it give us? Yeah, I know that learning from experience isn't a strong suit of our country - i.e., us. So my conclusion is that we're stuck with maybe more military small arms in the hands of the public than the military has, so gun control, even if something serious were enacted, wouldn't reduce the amount of firepower in the hands of the public. And as for buying them back, as happened in Australia, good luck. I'd recommend a national psychotherapy program as being more effective.
8
Don -- the argument that "nothing can be done" is completely belied by the evidence of gun control in both the UK and Australia -- the Australian experience is more relevant to the USA.
Many in Australia didn't turn in or license guns, particularly handguns. (Australian licensing makes it entirely practical to own a long-gun as long as it isn't a semi-auto capable of exchangeable magazines, but handguns are stiffly restricted.) But the guns in circulation dropped very fast, and it became far harder and more expensive for the people prone to gun violence to obtain guns.
These days there are still guns being turned "when grandpa died and we went through his stuff." But grandpa never shot anybody, and never sold the gun to a kid -- in Australia selling a gun illegally puts you away for a long time, and they are assiduous at tracking where guns that criminals have came from.
Many in Australia didn't turn in or license guns, particularly handguns. (Australian licensing makes it entirely practical to own a long-gun as long as it isn't a semi-auto capable of exchangeable magazines, but handguns are stiffly restricted.) But the guns in circulation dropped very fast, and it became far harder and more expensive for the people prone to gun violence to obtain guns.
These days there are still guns being turned "when grandpa died and we went through his stuff." But grandpa never shot anybody, and never sold the gun to a kid -- in Australia selling a gun illegally puts you away for a long time, and they are assiduous at tracking where guns that criminals have came from.
331
I think the key word in your comment is 'reduce'. You are quite correct about the number of firearms and the impossibility of completely eliminating weapons of mass murder through legislation.
But we can start, right?
Just because I'm not going to win an Olympic gold medal doesn't mean that getting some exercise isn't going to do me a lot of good.
But we can start, right?
Just because I'm not going to win an Olympic gold medal doesn't mean that getting some exercise isn't going to do me a lot of good.
33
The US is not Australia....or any other sane country in the "advanced" nations on earth. We alone have this "frontier, I'll go it alone," mindset that set us up for this gun-obsessed culture we live in, and I have stopped believing that there is anything that will change that fundamental fact. So, despite Gail's (and others') great efforts to wake us up, we will go on becoming accustomed to more and more gun violence. "Love it or leave it" they said after Vietnam.....the same holds true today. So sad....so very sad.
9
It has become normal to talk ONLY about comity and "Coming Together" rather than gun related legislation after any tragedy.
After all "if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform," why should we expect anything different now.
Like Trump has made telling lies the new normal, the NRA has successfully made buying and owning more guns the new normal. This, in spite of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans, including a majority of NRA members, want sane sensible reform and restrictions on gun sales.
So, what gives? For one, our representatives are in the pocket of the NRA since they are getting significant financial support from it. Only an active minority of NRA members are opposed to such legislation, but, boy are they active. So, second, we need to get more vocal and active. After all we are in the majority. But since we are silent, we are not heard.
So, call and your representative every single week, at least once, if not thrice. Write him/her at least once a month. Do not stop that until you see some movement.
The only way to overcome the active minority is to become the active majority.
After all "if 20 little children can be shot in their Connecticut school without triggering national gun law reform," why should we expect anything different now.
Like Trump has made telling lies the new normal, the NRA has successfully made buying and owning more guns the new normal. This, in spite of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans, including a majority of NRA members, want sane sensible reform and restrictions on gun sales.
So, what gives? For one, our representatives are in the pocket of the NRA since they are getting significant financial support from it. Only an active minority of NRA members are opposed to such legislation, but, boy are they active. So, second, we need to get more vocal and active. After all we are in the majority. But since we are silent, we are not heard.
So, call and your representative every single week, at least once, if not thrice. Write him/her at least once a month. Do not stop that until you see some movement.
The only way to overcome the active minority is to become the active majority.
178
"The only way to overcome the active minority is to become the active majority."
So true. I plan to steal your comment and use it often.
So true. I plan to steal your comment and use it often.
1
We won't get anywhere as a nation while Big Money controls our political system.
4
We will not defeat the NRA agenda until we organize.
Both political parties continue to fail us on the issue.
If someone starts a National Gun Control Association, I will join.
Both political parties continue to fail us on the issue.
If someone starts a National Gun Control Association, I will join.
1
Yes, call and write to your Senators and legislators. And to what end? Another bland form letter that offers lofty lines and platitudes without even a nod to your specific question, comment, or request for rationalization. I don't condone violence-no sane, civilized person does or should. But when elected officials ignore the people who put them in office, who put the interests of corporations above constituents, then in this extreme political era, violence like this is bound to happen
I will continue to hope We the People can influence our Senators and legislators, as Gail suggests. Hope continues to triumph over experience--and results.
I will continue to hope We the People can influence our Senators and legislators, as Gail suggests. Hope continues to triumph over experience--and results.
71
This may be the time when some form of gun control legislation gets passed. When ordinary citizens are gunned down Congress does the NRA's bidding - nothing. But now that members of Congress were shot that changes the picture. It seems that members of Congress will only change position on issues when it directly affects them. If their change of heart may also benefit the general population, it certainly wasn't something they intended.
38
So far the only reaction from repubs is to talk about legislation to weaken gun control in DC so that they can carry guns to defend themselves and to decide that every member of Congress have SS protection.
9
@Steve Rosenberg - hear hear! My thoughts exactly - and my first thought when I heard about the shooting was "Maybe NOW they'll "get it." (cleaned up a bit, of course)
3
Unfortunately, because of the money supplied by the NRA (and supported by the gun manufacturers), those on the side of unlimited guns will maintain their stance. In fact, it may up the ante, since many on the right are suggesting that more guns on the ball field would have limited the carnage. The only way the carnage would be limited is if the ball field were completely surrounded by armed guards. And do we really want to live like that? A police state is not what the USA is about.
5
Destroyer of Health Care Ryan
With words of Hypocrisy flyin'
Has put Millions in danger
American or stranger?
Those one family words I'm not buyin'
With words of Hypocrisy flyin'
Has put Millions in danger
American or stranger?
Those one family words I'm not buyin'
316
I am sure you will never tire of spending other people's money
1
Soothing words make the problem go away. It's that simple. Yeah, the hypocrisy is quite stunning.
I was raised in NYC. Culture: A.
In 1986 I moved to Texas. Culture: Z.
In 1966, I turned 18, the drinking age in NYC. It was 21 in NJ, that year. On the weekends we'd see and make fun of the college kids from the Garden State, who crossed the bridge to get stone drunk.
I do not own a gun. I have never owned a gun. while I appreciate the sentiments of the editorial, I don't think national gun control is realistic.
In 1986 I moved to Texas. Culture: Z.
In 1966, I turned 18, the drinking age in NYC. It was 21 in NJ, that year. On the weekends we'd see and make fun of the college kids from the Garden State, who crossed the bridge to get stone drunk.
I do not own a gun. I have never owned a gun. while I appreciate the sentiments of the editorial, I don't think national gun control is realistic.
13
Plenty of ideas were thought to be unrealistic until they were actually tried.
3
Try? remember, they were playing ball - not working!
2
When I read of the incident (in the Times, of course), I had to wonder: how much more hateful of Trump was Hodgkinson than the weight of liberal America? Indeed, how much more hateful than the weight of this commentariat? That's not to suggest that either would translate that hatred into violence, but without that deep ideological hatred, we wouldn't see the shooting of Steve Scalese and others OR the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords and others. Ideological hatred that impels deadly violence can be found on BOTH sides.
So, now the press, Congress and Trump are repeating my cautionaries about dialing down the emotion and even making common cause to the extent that they can. Yet I wonder how long the comity will last. If it does last, then Steve Scalese's sacrifice would have bought us an immensely valuable benefit.
So, now the press, Congress and Trump are repeating my cautionaries about dialing down the emotion and even making common cause to the extent that they can. Yet I wonder how long the comity will last. If it does last, then Steve Scalese's sacrifice would have bought us an immensely valuable benefit.
11
My hatred of Trump will not be abated by yesterday's tragedy UNLESS Trump finally realizes that his words and actions affect real people and decides to act as president of us all.
While Trump's rhetoric may be toned down, I doubt Trump's actions will change. An example being a report that Trump did not like the proposed health care law passed by the House. Does Trump realize he has a veto power, or will his ego get in the way of doing the right thing?
I hope yesterday was an aberration and not a harbinger of future nightmares.
While Trump's rhetoric may be toned down, I doubt Trump's actions will change. An example being a report that Trump did not like the proposed health care law passed by the House. Does Trump realize he has a veto power, or will his ego get in the way of doing the right thing?
I hope yesterday was an aberration and not a harbinger of future nightmares.
26
"So, now the press, Congress and Trump are repeating my cautionaries about dialing down the emotion and even making common cause to the extent that they can."
Once they'd seen how you were leaning on this, they were able to reiterate.
Once they'd seen how you were leaning on this, they were able to reiterate.
7
"Dialing down" the emotion aimed at the kind of person Trump plays in this reality show he's generated will only allow him and his party to rise to new levels of undermining the fabric of what comity that still exists in this nation.
People don't "hate" Donald Trump. We hate what he stands for. Those of us who align in opposition to virtually everything Trump stands for do so because he is a despicable person who lies, cheats. appeals to fear and prejudice, and then doubles down. You can't make those characteristics go away by accusing me of "hating" Donald Trump.
I'm as sorry as anyone can be who isn't personally involved that those men practicing baseball were shot at and injured. Some of them reportedly behaved well in response to the horror of the incident.
A few hours later, another deranged person shot people at a UPS office and then killed himself. I'm sorry for them and their families as well. Was that incident also instigated by ideological hatred?
How was Steve Scalese's being shot a "sacrifice?" That seems to make him some kind of hero when he was just another victim.
People don't "hate" Donald Trump. We hate what he stands for. Those of us who align in opposition to virtually everything Trump stands for do so because he is a despicable person who lies, cheats. appeals to fear and prejudice, and then doubles down. You can't make those characteristics go away by accusing me of "hating" Donald Trump.
I'm as sorry as anyone can be who isn't personally involved that those men practicing baseball were shot at and injured. Some of them reportedly behaved well in response to the horror of the incident.
A few hours later, another deranged person shot people at a UPS office and then killed himself. I'm sorry for them and their families as well. Was that incident also instigated by ideological hatred?
How was Steve Scalese's being shot a "sacrifice?" That seems to make him some kind of hero when he was just another victim.
24
I'm 61 years old.
I started fighting against the rising gun violence with a letter to the local newspaper in 1976 and an essay about gun control in my college speech class.
I got accused of being a communist by a newspaper reader and my classmates talked about traffic accidents and the dangers of driving--as if my gun could get me to work.
Gun violence went up. And it keeps going up.
Nothing is going to change.
Nothing. Is. Going. To. Change.
NOTHING. WILL. CHANGE.
Sorry. I misspoke. Something will change.
Gun violence will continue to skyrocket.
My mistake.
I started fighting against the rising gun violence with a letter to the local newspaper in 1976 and an essay about gun control in my college speech class.
I got accused of being a communist by a newspaper reader and my classmates talked about traffic accidents and the dangers of driving--as if my gun could get me to work.
Gun violence went up. And it keeps going up.
Nothing is going to change.
Nothing. Is. Going. To. Change.
NOTHING. WILL. CHANGE.
Sorry. I misspoke. Something will change.
Gun violence will continue to skyrocket.
My mistake.
715
Slim.
Agreed. Nothing will change.
It's really too late.
American's own more than 300,000,000 guns.
Yes. Three. Hundred. Million. Guns.
That's a lot of guns.
Agreed. Nothing will change.
It's really too late.
American's own more than 300,000,000 guns.
Yes. Three. Hundred. Million. Guns.
That's a lot of guns.
13
Only a few days ago, after the London attack, Mr. Trump tweeted: "Do you notice we are not having a gun debate right now? That's because they used knives and a truck!" The desperate attempts from the NRA and its surrogates to create a distance between guns and violence is despicable. Guns kill. That is their only function.
And yet one can buy assault weapons and ammunition at the nearby Walmart. Walmart is not inattentive to its clients' physical and spiritual well-being. It does not sell the morning after pill, Jon Stewart's book, Sheryl Crowe album and a pregnant Barbie doll, among others. (There are online lists of those items.) Values are important, after all.
And who knows - maybe when it's some of theirs who are hurt their views may change, like they do when they need stem cell treatment and pregnancy termination. Alas, we mostly don't get to hear about those transgressions.
And yet one can buy assault weapons and ammunition at the nearby Walmart. Walmart is not inattentive to its clients' physical and spiritual well-being. It does not sell the morning after pill, Jon Stewart's book, Sheryl Crowe album and a pregnant Barbie doll, among others. (There are online lists of those items.) Values are important, after all.
And who knows - maybe when it's some of theirs who are hurt their views may change, like they do when they need stem cell treatment and pregnancy termination. Alas, we mostly don't get to hear about those transgressions.
15
Slim1921, yours is the top comment as far as I am concerned. I have seen it all in the 30 years I have lived in this country. The event that made me reach your conclusion was the Sandyhook massacre. If a nation finds it acceptable that its children can get murdered en masse, and frankly it doesn't matter that they were in a school, this statement is valid wherever, then, you can lose hope for change.
Ironically, I did just like you: I wrote an essay about gun control in my college speech class. It was probably the best speech I ever wrote and delivered. I am glad to see that there are still some sane people in this country. But I also know that we won't be enough to change it. People's psyche is too conditionned to accept violence. We promote it every day with super violent games. People perceive violence as fun in fiction, so why would they want to prevent it the real world?
Ironically, I did just like you: I wrote an essay about gun control in my college speech class. It was probably the best speech I ever wrote and delivered. I am glad to see that there are still some sane people in this country. But I also know that we won't be enough to change it. People's psyche is too conditionned to accept violence. We promote it every day with super violent games. People perceive violence as fun in fiction, so why would they want to prevent it the real world?
8
There was a big clock on a building in Manhattan near Times Square that kept track of the rising government debt totals. We need a clock to show the daily or weekly shootings and killings. Report it on TV news and the front page of the NYTimes in regular updates. This would keep the issue in the forefront.
Could compare the numbers of shootings and gun deaths in other civilized countries, and then discuss why the great disparity.
And then publicize the contributions to political campaigns by the gun lobby/NRA.
Tie it all together. Maybe a chart showing the shooting totals, in US and abroad, and then compare how much gun manufactures donate to which politicians' political compaigns here vs abroad.
This would inject some reality into our politics about the tragedy that is the US and gun deaths.
Could compare the numbers of shootings and gun deaths in other civilized countries, and then discuss why the great disparity.
And then publicize the contributions to political campaigns by the gun lobby/NRA.
Tie it all together. Maybe a chart showing the shooting totals, in US and abroad, and then compare how much gun manufactures donate to which politicians' political compaigns here vs abroad.
This would inject some reality into our politics about the tragedy that is the US and gun deaths.
854
Beautifully put!
Also, re American gun carrying males
All Freudian analysis fails.
Also, re American gun carrying males
All Freudian analysis fails.
14
Great idea! And publicize the amounts ACCEPTED by the politician. Make it Unfashionable, Un-American even, to accept it. Cartoonists could have a field day.
10
Meredith - Let's bring back Joe Nocera's gun report in the Times:
https://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/category/gun-report/?_r=0
https://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/category/gun-report/?_r=0
11
Our political leaders, especially are new president, could provide a uniformly better use of the English language by employing less incendiary rhetoric and being fully mindful that through individual and combined leadership, our leaders are setting an example and setting a tone if they were to behave responsibly, professionally, and in the public interest. Viewed in retrospect, consider the way Mr. Obama used his presidential voice in comparison with Mr. Trump.
235
Consider for a moment how one could almost view Trump's motivating, driving force as a desire to UNDO every tiny good that Obama did. The man hates Obama. Because he sees in him a constant reminder of what he could never been. So he needs to sully it at every turn. Perhaps society can only produce one such golden leader in very many years, but the descent is nauseating.
6
Seeing the phrases "are" new president and "a uniformly better use of the English language" made me giggle.
2
Auto-correct will do that. It's never happened to you?
1
Americans are very polarized right now and a lot of the blame for that lies at the hands of our politicians from both parties. Bipartisanship and compromise have become four letter words. What we need to see going forward are members of both sides working together on meaningful legislation that will benefit the American people.
As for today having any meaningful impact on our need to take a look at the "well regulated" part of the second amendment, if babies at school being killed doesn't move them towards bipartisan solutions to our gun violence nothing will. Lawmakers got a taste of the reality that all Americans live with today. We know that our schools, our places of worship, our malls, our jobs or any public place are not safe. When we leave our house there's a risk that we could be shot for no reason. We owe them the same consideration that they give us, a few days of sadness and then we move forward with our lives.
As for today having any meaningful impact on our need to take a look at the "well regulated" part of the second amendment, if babies at school being killed doesn't move them towards bipartisan solutions to our gun violence nothing will. Lawmakers got a taste of the reality that all Americans live with today. We know that our schools, our places of worship, our malls, our jobs or any public place are not safe. When we leave our house there's a risk that we could be shot for no reason. We owe them the same consideration that they give us, a few days of sadness and then we move forward with our lives.
111
"Americans are very polarized right now and a lot of the blame for that lies at the hands of our politicians from both parties."
I believe our perception of extreme political polarization comes from living with social media. Everyone has always had an opinion; now they have a world-wide speaking platform. To stand out from the rest, opinions are often expressed in more extreme terms, very often without any moderation. This leads to division.
I believe our perception of extreme political polarization comes from living with social media. Everyone has always had an opinion; now they have a world-wide speaking platform. To stand out from the rest, opinions are often expressed in more extreme terms, very often without any moderation. This leads to division.
8
There is a false analogy claiming both parties are equally obstructive. The attitude of Mitch McConnell and the republicans to President Obama was divisive and shameful, all the way through breaking precedent over a SCOTUS nominee. There has been historically nothing to equal it. Dems are no where near as antagonistic in accomplishing legislation for the betterment of the largest number of our citizenry.
18
@James: I don't do Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat or any of them. I've given up my TV subscription. And my life is much better for it. I wish more people would.
I actually think that with increased malware/spyware/bugs that the hackers will win and we will all have to give up our computers. But people should give up their TVs right now - especially FOX which is pure propaganda of the Republican Army of Congress. And then the very best thing would be to vote every single Republican out of office in 2018. Oh, yes, I know that's not politically correct on such a sad day (sad because it happened to somebody famous and not just an anybody) but we're not supposed to be politically correct anymore are we? Trump has done away with political correctness.
I want guns in the Capitol. That's what I'm going to agitate for. Guns in the Halls of Congress. Now.
I actually think that with increased malware/spyware/bugs that the hackers will win and we will all have to give up our computers. But people should give up their TVs right now - especially FOX which is pure propaganda of the Republican Army of Congress. And then the very best thing would be to vote every single Republican out of office in 2018. Oh, yes, I know that's not politically correct on such a sad day (sad because it happened to somebody famous and not just an anybody) but we're not supposed to be politically correct anymore are we? Trump has done away with political correctness.
I want guns in the Capitol. That's what I'm going to agitate for. Guns in the Halls of Congress. Now.
7
So. Explain this. How exactly would working to disarm me - the only conceivable result of all these increased laws and difficulties - have improved that meeting that day?