If one examines the tape, it was Senator Harris who was cutting people off and being rude.
51
Everyone interrupts everyone else. That is part of life and certainly a major part of business life.
I have attended many business meetings that were all male. Does that mean that people were polite and listened to each other? No. In some of the meetings, the point was to make the other person uncomfortable, to test them and see if they would cave. Sometimes people are deliberately rude. This often happens when the person attending a meeting has no particular stake in the outcome. Why not have some fun and mess with this guy? It happens.
When men interrupt women because they think they are more important and have something better to say, that, too, is rude and unfortunate. Nonetheless, do the rules of business have to be changed top to bottom to accommodate everyone's sensibilities? I guarantee you that higher ranking males will walk all over lower ranking ones in an instant if they get the chance. In other words, this isn't all a men vs. women problem. It is a human problem.
It has been said that diplomacy is war by another means. The same has been said about business: it too is a kind of war for survival, success and riches. Expect meanness. Expect that people are going to try to take advantage of you, embarrass you at times and put you down. Be ready. Fight back. Don't expect that everything will change just because you are sitting at the table. People should do better, but that doesn't mean they will.
I have attended many business meetings that were all male. Does that mean that people were polite and listened to each other? No. In some of the meetings, the point was to make the other person uncomfortable, to test them and see if they would cave. Sometimes people are deliberately rude. This often happens when the person attending a meeting has no particular stake in the outcome. Why not have some fun and mess with this guy? It happens.
When men interrupt women because they think they are more important and have something better to say, that, too, is rude and unfortunate. Nonetheless, do the rules of business have to be changed top to bottom to accommodate everyone's sensibilities? I guarantee you that higher ranking males will walk all over lower ranking ones in an instant if they get the chance. In other words, this isn't all a men vs. women problem. It is a human problem.
It has been said that diplomacy is war by another means. The same has been said about business: it too is a kind of war for survival, success and riches. Expect meanness. Expect that people are going to try to take advantage of you, embarrass you at times and put you down. Be ready. Fight back. Don't expect that everything will change just because you are sitting at the table. People should do better, but that doesn't mean they will.
48
My former boss would call for proposals, discussions, at staff meetings. I would contribute, while his inexperienced protégées would be silent. Then afterwards he would call me into his office and tell me I was talking too much, dominating the discussion. So I decided to say nothing at staff meetings. The protégées still had no ideas.
69
Count how many time Joe Scarborough interrupts his beloved, Mika.
51
When guys argue or discuss, most want to just get it over with by cutting to the chase. Women like to linger on details longer, details that most guys see as superfluous to the gist of what's being discussed. Therefore, guys will tend to interrupt women simply to end the discussion.
And by the way, another truism: Republicans interrupt Democrats when they are "discussing" things.
Ask any person who's tried to correct a Right Winger frothing at the mouth about something bad about any Democrat that they had heard on Fox News that Faux News said was "true." Faux News doesn't know what *truth* really is, unless a "truth" hyperbolically pumps themselves up. And so Republicans interrupt to bully their way towards "winning" the discussion or argument. They are basically inconsiderate uncivil & gullible dolts.
And by the way, another truism: Republicans interrupt Democrats when they are "discussing" things.
Ask any person who's tried to correct a Right Winger frothing at the mouth about something bad about any Democrat that they had heard on Fox News that Faux News said was "true." Faux News doesn't know what *truth* really is, unless a "truth" hyperbolically pumps themselves up. And so Republicans interrupt to bully their way towards "winning" the discussion or argument. They are basically inconsiderate uncivil & gullible dolts.
22
Universal? Shouldn't this be an op-ed with a generalization like that?
I suspect the variance within genders exceeds the gap between genders. Not much discussion of that, just binaries.
The experiences of almost everyone here (seemingly men only and often suppressing women) don't line up with my own experience. Perhaps that's because I'm a male at a female-dominated non profit, not a cutthroat corporate setting.
The people I see talk too long may be dominant supervisors (rare), OR simply long-winded thinkers, OR ramblers, OR even thoughtful and engaged employees who genuinely have a lot to contribute (no, not me, I'm typically called a good listener). Heck, sometimes interruption is important given the number of wasted meetings and forgetfulness of people.
Any sympathy for the people with lower emotional intelligence, who were raised that way? How about taking partial responsibility for signing up for a cutthroat business environment where dominance and blustering are valued, even taught in b school?
A one-sided bashing of "men" in this way strikes me as crass, unempathetic, and as a sexist generalization. The research doesn't say 100% of men interrupt and dominate and 0% of women do. eg it was 30% more in one study, and again, corporate vs other environments. Using terms like mansplain excessively is just the kind of condescension we're trying to change.
Let's take a more constructive, empathetic, nuanced, charitable, and less overgemeralized approach to this issue.
I suspect the variance within genders exceeds the gap between genders. Not much discussion of that, just binaries.
The experiences of almost everyone here (seemingly men only and often suppressing women) don't line up with my own experience. Perhaps that's because I'm a male at a female-dominated non profit, not a cutthroat corporate setting.
The people I see talk too long may be dominant supervisors (rare), OR simply long-winded thinkers, OR ramblers, OR even thoughtful and engaged employees who genuinely have a lot to contribute (no, not me, I'm typically called a good listener). Heck, sometimes interruption is important given the number of wasted meetings and forgetfulness of people.
Any sympathy for the people with lower emotional intelligence, who were raised that way? How about taking partial responsibility for signing up for a cutthroat business environment where dominance and blustering are valued, even taught in b school?
A one-sided bashing of "men" in this way strikes me as crass, unempathetic, and as a sexist generalization. The research doesn't say 100% of men interrupt and dominate and 0% of women do. eg it was 30% more in one study, and again, corporate vs other environments. Using terms like mansplain excessively is just the kind of condescension we're trying to change.
Let's take a more constructive, empathetic, nuanced, charitable, and less overgemeralized approach to this issue.
31
Sessions was rambling on repeating the same defence.Senator Harris was trying to hold him to yes or no answers. And she was cut off. Shame
62
A number of years ago I went on a long cruise with two other guys. They say you don't know someone till you live with them & being thrown together every day on a cruise ship simulated that experience. I had never noticed it about them before but one of my friends continually pontificated holding the floor on any subject against any pressure to turn his lecture into a conversation. Anyone trying to get a word in edgewise was abruptly told "it's rude to interrupt!"
Are there any studies about how long men & women talk once given the floor to speak? If we're examining the difference between men & women shouldn't we look at both sides to evaluate the issue?
Are there any studies about how long men & women talk once given the floor to speak? If we're examining the difference between men & women shouldn't we look at both sides to evaluate the issue?
17
If A is sexually interested in B, she will LISTEN carefully, flirt with her eyes, and make B feel very desirable. Estrogen is the "draw nearer" hormone while Testosterone is the outspoken "I want to seduce you now" rush. Without sexual feelings, men and women must learn equality of speaking and listening -
Men must learn to listen and women must learn to speak up.
Men must learn to listen and women must learn to speak up.
11
Women need to stand up for each other whenever we witness this happening.
If you're in a meeting and see a female colleague getting interrupted, please speak up and say "I'd like to hear the rest of what so-and-so was saying."
If you're in a meeting and see a female colleague getting interrupted, please speak up and say "I'd like to hear the rest of what so-and-so was saying."
73
"At times, Senator Harris cut Mr. Sessions off, but she spoke in an even tone."
Even-toned or not, Senator Harris repeatedly interrupted/cut off Mr. Sessions, seemingly because Mr. Sessions was not giving the answers she wanted. Is that somehow a legitimate reason to cut off someone? (Once a prosecutor, always a prosecutor.) I don't blame her for being frustrated with Mr. Sessions's prevarications; it's difficult to bear up under. Of course, she's part of an exclusive hundred-member club, too many of whom are accustomed to and feel entitled to interrupt and belittle witnesses, their protestations of senatorial civility/decorum (as compared to the House of Representatives re: Joseph "You Lie!" Wilson) notwithstanding. To the extent that Senator Sessions has similarly interrupted, perhaps it was justified that he should get a taste of it himself. Ms. Harris might consider showing her male colleagues the higher road (as if they don't already refulgently know of it). Until the club changes its collective mind, Ms. Harris has no less a right than her male colleagues to badger/borderline bully witnesses.
Even-toned or not, Senator Harris repeatedly interrupted/cut off Mr. Sessions, seemingly because Mr. Sessions was not giving the answers she wanted. Is that somehow a legitimate reason to cut off someone? (Once a prosecutor, always a prosecutor.) I don't blame her for being frustrated with Mr. Sessions's prevarications; it's difficult to bear up under. Of course, she's part of an exclusive hundred-member club, too many of whom are accustomed to and feel entitled to interrupt and belittle witnesses, their protestations of senatorial civility/decorum (as compared to the House of Representatives re: Joseph "You Lie!" Wilson) notwithstanding. To the extent that Senator Sessions has similarly interrupted, perhaps it was justified that he should get a taste of it himself. Ms. Harris might consider showing her male colleagues the higher road (as if they don't already refulgently know of it). Until the club changes its collective mind, Ms. Harris has no less a right than her male colleagues to badger/borderline bully witnesses.
6
One of the things that has stood out from the last 25 years of being immersed in an overwhelmingly male environment, is how deeply unhappy so many of them are. I've worked in both a dominance-hierarchy and a more diverse, democratic corporate structure, and the dominance hierarchy is noticeably worse in all aspects discussed in this article.
What is really fascinating is that the males who express the most frustration at being interrupted are often the worst offenders of it. The males who complain how horrible and toxic their workplace is are often the worst contributors to that toxicity. There seems to be a complete disconnect that they themselves create the culture that they hate.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the environments that worked the most effectively, had the highest skill set and productivity, and least amount of tempter tantrums, conflicts and meltdowns were also the most diverse. When cultures are very homogeneous, it seems as if the participants are more prone to confuse the self-respect that comes meaningful metrics like skill and accomplishment, for the cheap imitation of respect that gaining attention provides.
What is really fascinating is that the males who express the most frustration at being interrupted are often the worst offenders of it. The males who complain how horrible and toxic their workplace is are often the worst contributors to that toxicity. There seems to be a complete disconnect that they themselves create the culture that they hate.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the environments that worked the most effectively, had the highest skill set and productivity, and least amount of tempter tantrums, conflicts and meltdowns were also the most diverse. When cultures are very homogeneous, it seems as if the participants are more prone to confuse the self-respect that comes meaningful metrics like skill and accomplishment, for the cheap imitation of respect that gaining attention provides.
40
The double standard is alive and well, nowhere more so than in Congress. Women need to keep running for office and never stop, no matter what obstacles that men throw at them. This will start changing when there are more women elected. There should be no reason that there are not as many women and there are men in Congress. We would sure have more sensible policies on education, defense and guns if women were more involved in the decision making process.
The voters rejected a strong, intelligent woman in 2016, but I expect there to be female candidates run in 2020.
Vote progressive in all local, state and federal elections.
The voters rejected a strong, intelligent woman in 2016, but I expect there to be female candidates run in 2020.
Vote progressive in all local, state and federal elections.
58
Thank you for writing on this subject. This phenomenon is so true and apparently universal. When I am talking with a male colleague - or rather, he is talking to me, and I finally get the chance to talk respond, he either begins to yawn (an almost automatic response) or look away in a distracted and impatient manner. It's actually very offensive. No, I have not tried to give my male counterpart the same treatment, but then, he might be oblivious anyway to my behaviour while he speaks.
66
Jason Miller is so lame; strange anyone would give him a public pulpit. Is role as former adviser to President Trump’s campaign says it all.
13
In nine years of Board meetings of the financial services firm that employed me to run their regulatory department, not once did I express an opinion or attempt a presentation that I wasn't loudly talked over for the entire duration of my speech. As the sole female Board member, I was an unwelcome guest at the party, and at first I thought this was just an unconscious and unmeant rudeness. Later I realized it was truly intended to silence the unwanted "woman's view". Eventually I gave up entirely trying to make any contribution to Board meetings. After all, I reasoned, it was their loss. They paid me handsomely to protect their interests. If they received a lesser return on this investment as a result of shutting out my opinion, then they only had themselves to blame. I moved on to a better employer, they didn't survive the 2008 market crash.
95
My mother had the perfect response for anyone that tried to interrupt her and tell her what they thought......"excuse me, but when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it."
70
Kamala Harris was not only interrupted, she was patronized by being told to "let (Sessions) answer the question" and then cut off at the end when her time was up (others went over their time in the Comey hearing, with no consequences). It was obvious and embarrassing.
107
I watched Harris' segment of the Sessions questioning. No one cut her off when her time was up. I do recall her saying she had more questions when she said her time was up, and indisputably she would have been able to ask one or two more questions if McCain and the Chairman hadn't spoken earlier. But nobody cut her off at the end.
I've been impressed by the comments from women here. While I don't think I'm guilty of the male sins they describe, they'd probably reply that most men, maybe even all, claim to be exceptions. Who knows? I'll try harder. But in any event, Harris' questioning of Sessions was NOT an example of that. She had her questions well laid out in advance, and she was counting on Sessions to give brief pertinent answers that would lead her to the next planned question and eventually to the "gotcha" moment it was clear she was aiming at. Sessions, like nearly all politicians, gave vague answers that were not what Harris had expected. She should have adjusted -- I would have -- but she didn't. I can't claim to know whether McCain and Burr were motivated by disrespect for women, or even by disrespect for Kamala Harris, but I think she'd have received the same rebuke had she been male.
I highly recommend watching Harris' segment of the Sessions hearing before you draw any conclusion about Karris' suitability as an example here. Many male commenters here disagree that men interrupt women with impunity. Choosing Harris as an example only strengthens their case.
I've been impressed by the comments from women here. While I don't think I'm guilty of the male sins they describe, they'd probably reply that most men, maybe even all, claim to be exceptions. Who knows? I'll try harder. But in any event, Harris' questioning of Sessions was NOT an example of that. She had her questions well laid out in advance, and she was counting on Sessions to give brief pertinent answers that would lead her to the next planned question and eventually to the "gotcha" moment it was clear she was aiming at. Sessions, like nearly all politicians, gave vague answers that were not what Harris had expected. She should have adjusted -- I would have -- but she didn't. I can't claim to know whether McCain and Burr were motivated by disrespect for women, or even by disrespect for Kamala Harris, but I think she'd have received the same rebuke had she been male.
I highly recommend watching Harris' segment of the Sessions hearing before you draw any conclusion about Karris' suitability as an example here. Many male commenters here disagree that men interrupt women with impunity. Choosing Harris as an example only strengthens their case.
24
Can you imagine the reaction if a woman asked to slow the questioning down by saying "you are making me nervous"?
45
Actually, men also interrupt other men....
21
Actually, we call these men mansplainers.
19
Men may indeed interrupt other men but statistics show men interrupt women at a much higher rate, even on the Supreme Court.
The motivations are very different.
Man-over-Man interruption: a sorta friendly competition
Man-over-Woman interruption: a condemning "shut up" shush
The motivations are very different.
Man-over-Man interruption: a sorta friendly competition
Man-over-Woman interruption: a condemning "shut up" shush
43
Id like to see how this study was done. Fact is women talk for minutes, what a man might say in 1/3 the time. We have to interrupt them. Sorry to be contrary to what the woman writer of this article says
13
Fact is, actual studies contradict you. This is just the impression many have because they assume what women have to say will be less important than what a man has to say. Note that even women interrupt women more than they interrupt men. Men benefit from an automatic assumption that they are worth listening to and should be allowed to speak their mind. Not women.
91
I read a good article some years ago, by a middle school teacher who decided to pay attention to how much girls and boys got to talk in her class. She told the class about it and announced she would keep track of the number and length of contributions from each sex, and would make sure they were roughly proportionate to the number of male and female students-- just for a week, just to see what would happen. After a couple of days, the boys began complaining bitterly that the teacher "never called on them anymore." She was able to show them, from her notes, that in fact they'd been called on equitably. It was just that they were so used to dominating, and felt so entitled to it, that anything less seemed "unfair."
98
Men often do interrupt women more than they interrupt men. But Kamala Harris' questioning of Jeff Sessions isn't an example of that. She interrupted him mid-sentence. True, Sessions was launching into a long-winded answer of a question different from what Harris had asked. But politicians almost always do that, regardless of the questioner's gender. That's par for the course. Harris should have adjusted, but she didn't. Clearly she had a "sequence" in mind that required Sessions to give the answers she wanted to each question. When he didn't, she became flustered and launched into her own interruption -- 57 words long (I counted them) after interrupting Sessions for a second time mid-sentence.
Harris may have a political future, but I would emphasize "future." She's not quite ready for prime time. One can gloss over this by insisting she was interrupted, but it was the other way around. The reality for Ms. Harris? She didn't get interrupted; she's just not green and rough around the edges. That would be true if she were a man.
Harris may have a political future, but I would emphasize "future." She's not quite ready for prime time. One can gloss over this by insisting she was interrupted, but it was the other way around. The reality for Ms. Harris? She didn't get interrupted; she's just not green and rough around the edges. That would be true if she were a man.
15
You fail to mention that a male Senator, Ron Wyden - like Sen Harris - was compelled to interrupt Jeff Sessions to keep him from the virtual filibuster which would run out the clock and enable Sessions to avoid answering the question. Sen Wyden's efforts, however, were not met with interruption and patronizing correction.
97
Read the Washington Post article on Kamala Harris. Senators interrupting pseudo-answers designed to run down the minutes is standard practice—it's the only way to get answers or, as in this case, to make clear that questions are not being answered and get those unanswered questions onto the public record. What is not standard practice is for those senators to be hushed and reprimanded for doing their job. During this same session, male senators did exactly the same thing that Kamala Harris did and were not admonished in any way.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/06/14/as-a-prose...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/06/14/as-a-prose...
54
Senator Harris looked like a highly competent lawyer to me. Just a thought... but wasn't John McCain was given the courtesy by his colleagues to have an utter verbal and mental meltdown when questioning Director Comey because he "stayed up too late" watching baseball? I believe he found the double standard he was looking for.
99
Exactly:
"Kamala Harris's questioning was very poor ... McCain was more severely rebuked for improper questioning than she was. Overall, I do see a trend of women senators being cut off more than men, but I am not sure it wasn't justified in this case."
Exactly. I don't deny that men interrupt women more than they interrupt men. But I'd not cite this as an example of that. Harris came across as a rank amateur, and she'd have come across that way if she were a man. She had a sequence of questioning set up, and its success required that Sessions give the expected answer to every question. When he didn't -- and politicians almost never do -- Harris was thrown off her "sequence" and didn't adjust. She'd have looked just as bad if she were a man.
"Kamala Harris's questioning was very poor ... McCain was more severely rebuked for improper questioning than she was. Overall, I do see a trend of women senators being cut off more than men, but I am not sure it wasn't justified in this case."
Exactly. I don't deny that men interrupt women more than they interrupt men. But I'd not cite this as an example of that. Harris came across as a rank amateur, and she'd have come across that way if she were a man. She had a sequence of questioning set up, and its success required that Sessions give the expected answer to every question. When he didn't -- and politicians almost never do -- Harris was thrown off her "sequence" and didn't adjust. She'd have looked just as bad if she were a man.
17
Untrue. Harris attempted to keep Sessions focused on answering the questions while Sessions meandered into tangents so that time would run out before he was compelled to answer. Harris is a seasoned questioner. She's not the one who got flustered. Sessions was...by the pointed directness of her questions.
53
And, this is so habitual that at my workplace - which would be hailed as progressive in many areas AND predominantly female. It is not the attitude - necessarily - of the men in the workplace, but the learned means of communicating.
19
It's a little surprising that the NYTimes didn't mention the repeated calls on the left for Hillary Clinton to "shut up" and/or "go away" whenever she speaks publicly, since the election. One might even imagine that the NYTimes agrees with that, given the negative coverage she received during the campaign.
44
Amy,
If it's any consolation, I didn't notice the Times' "negative coverage" of Hillary Clinton during the campaign. Quite the contrary, in fact. I never understood what the Times saw in Hillary Clinton. She's always struck me as a mediocrity, someone to whom most people wouldn't give the time of day if she hadn't been married to a former President.
If it's any consolation, I didn't notice the Times' "negative coverage" of Hillary Clinton during the campaign. Quite the contrary, in fact. I never understood what the Times saw in Hillary Clinton. She's always struck me as a mediocrity, someone to whom most people wouldn't give the time of day if she hadn't been married to a former President.
10
Men may frequently interrupt women, but the cause is not sexism.
Men and women use speech for different reasons.
Men tend to speak to relay facts, convey arguments and make plans; male speech is goal-directed. Male speech doesn't take as much time. It tends to be succinct.
Women tend to speak to forge emotional connections, get attention, appear colorful or theatrical or pursue and luxuriate in any one of a number of emotions. Female speech tends to be meandering, unfocused and not goal oriented. This is why female writing is much longer, is characterized by a multiplicity of qualifying clauses and many parenthetical asides; male speech tends to be to the point.
Because men and women perceive speech as very different things, men become very impatient and exasperated when women speak.
Men and women use speech for different reasons.
Men tend to speak to relay facts, convey arguments and make plans; male speech is goal-directed. Male speech doesn't take as much time. It tends to be succinct.
Women tend to speak to forge emotional connections, get attention, appear colorful or theatrical or pursue and luxuriate in any one of a number of emotions. Female speech tends to be meandering, unfocused and not goal oriented. This is why female writing is much longer, is characterized by a multiplicity of qualifying clauses and many parenthetical asides; male speech tends to be to the point.
Because men and women perceive speech as very different things, men become very impatient and exasperated when women speak.
23
Random points
Women may be more chatty because they are less hierarchical.
Women in the military , surgery or science for example can certainly adopt the speech patterns of men in those fields.
Do women who use sign language resemble male or female types of communication.
Communication varies intra gender and extra.
Sometimes the role we play affects our speech patterns.
Women may be more chatty because they are less hierarchical.
Women in the military , surgery or science for example can certainly adopt the speech patterns of men in those fields.
Do women who use sign language resemble male or female types of communication.
Communication varies intra gender and extra.
Sometimes the role we play affects our speech patterns.
4
WOMEN tend to speak to relay facts, convey arguments and make plans.
MEN - for example, the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave - tend to speak to forge emotional connections, get attention, appear colorful or theatrical or pursue and luxuriate in any one of a number of emotions.
I do hope this succinct communication helps to clear up Mr Gottfried's unfortunate tendency towards meandering and muddled nonsense.
MEN - for example, the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave - tend to speak to forge emotional connections, get attention, appear colorful or theatrical or pursue and luxuriate in any one of a number of emotions.
I do hope this succinct communication helps to clear up Mr Gottfried's unfortunate tendency towards meandering and muddled nonsense.
96
Can you offer a shred of empirical support for your "observations"?
The very definition of sexism.
The very definition of sexism.
46
Women do talk more than men. Take forever to get to the point.
But hey the self appointed political correct police say if we pretend men and women are equal that will make it so.
P.S. Ariana Huffington is nice, charming, kind etc.. but really it's important to have more women on corporate boards for sole reason that they're women??? She must of have been one of those people who voted for Hillary Clinton.
But hey the self appointed political correct police say if we pretend men and women are equal that will make it so.
P.S. Ariana Huffington is nice, charming, kind etc.. but really it's important to have more women on corporate boards for sole reason that they're women??? She must of have been one of those people who voted for Hillary Clinton.
11
Reader, this topic is exposing a whole lot of ignorance on the part of some men.
Studies have shown that when corporate boards have more women on them, the companies are more profitable. Also perform better in terms of social responsibility. Google it.
Studies have shown that when corporate boards have more women on them, the companies are more profitable. Also perform better in terms of social responsibility. Google it.
75
I'm assuming your close to retirement age if not long past it. If not why not are you caught in the 1950's? Try this thought experiment though, go way back in time, your back in middle school and you say to your mom, "You and Dad aren't equal, he's smart and your hysterical but if it makes you feel any better I'll pretend that you are." How would that play?
34
As a male who has always had a large number of female friends, I have found that when I am in the minority, gender-wise, it is extremely difficult to get a word in edgewise. To do so, I often need to raise my voice, and am then frequently told to "calm down" or "chill out." In any setting where there are equal numbers of men and women, I do believe that women have a much harder time being heard or listened to - two different things - but I feel compelled to point out my own experiences when in the minority, because I believe it speaks to the role many minorities - or, and this is perhaps a more important point, the role that many perceived minorities - find themselves playing in social discourse.
19
This. Growing up with two older sisters and a mother who taught me the To Kill A Mockingbird lesson of trying to walk around in someone else's shoes for awhile have found that common communication traits among a majority tend to be the dominant factor. Particularly I noted this going from laid back west cost to east coast where my friends would talk over - male and female - because it was cultural. I had to adapt. Coming back to the west coast, same thing - I had to catch myself.
Similarly, working in law, there's a type A personality- men and women - that dominates the conversational style.
That said, there is a difference in gender communication styles and self awareness on both sides of any conversation must put a focus on valuing differing styles. Making that the focus of your contribution can lead to discovering introverts in any context, given the opportunity and comfortable space to contribute, often provide keen insights that can profoundly impact the direction and productivity of any conversation.
Similarly, working in law, there's a type A personality- men and women - that dominates the conversational style.
That said, there is a difference in gender communication styles and self awareness on both sides of any conversation must put a focus on valuing differing styles. Making that the focus of your contribution can lead to discovering introverts in any context, given the opportunity and comfortable space to contribute, often provide keen insights that can profoundly impact the direction and productivity of any conversation.
15
Very good point.
2
Men interrupt women. Men interrupt men. Men interrupt. Women tend not to interrupt. One can spin this as a gender issue: men interrupt women. That will get everyone all excited. It will certainly get the academic who makes such conclusions more attention, if not respect.
13
I think that the readers do not understand well or at all that Kamala Harris was a former, and recently, State Attorney General for California, and prior to that, the District Attorney of the County and City of San Francisco (they are one and two at the same time). She is a prosecutor and she formed her questions to Now Attorney General of the United States, Jeff Sessions, as she might anyone before a prosecutor.
Senator Cains interruption of her well constructed questions to me, as one who works in law and has witnessed SEC depositions, while working for the State, that Senator Cain sought to sabotage Senator Harrises questioning.
Jeff Sessions is a former prosecutor and DA, as I understand
Kamala Harris is a former prosecutor and DA
Former Director James Comey was the Chief of an investigatory and prosecutorial department of the United States, and at one time was an Deputy Attorney General for the United States Deputy
Sally Yates was an Attorney General.
These are all career criminal law prosecutors, though they have migrated into other positions.
I view everything that is going on with the investigation on wrong doing by the Russian government over the past several years ( I hope) against the US and its allies, with the lens that what I am seeing and hearing is coming from people who are expert in Federal and State criminal law.
Senator Cains interruption of her well constructed questions to me, as one who works in law and has witnessed SEC depositions, while working for the State, that Senator Cain sought to sabotage Senator Harrises questioning.
Jeff Sessions is a former prosecutor and DA, as I understand
Kamala Harris is a former prosecutor and DA
Former Director James Comey was the Chief of an investigatory and prosecutorial department of the United States, and at one time was an Deputy Attorney General for the United States Deputy
Sally Yates was an Attorney General.
These are all career criminal law prosecutors, though they have migrated into other positions.
I view everything that is going on with the investigation on wrong doing by the Russian government over the past several years ( I hope) against the US and its allies, with the lens that what I am seeing and hearing is coming from people who are expert in Federal and State criminal law.
28
as a dude
i m with her
i m with her
29
I get interrupted by more women than men.
13
This "women are treated" hue and cry has got to stop. I'm a woman and I get interrupted. I also interrupt, especially when I haven't had enough sleep and impulse control is challenged.
What I'm learning from editorials like this is that women are way too sensitive. No wonder Camille Paglia says if it was up to women, we'd still be living in grass huts. The emphasis on "microagressions" can really slow down progress.
What I'm learning from editorials like this is that women are way too sensitive. No wonder Camille Paglia says if it was up to women, we'd still be living in grass huts. The emphasis on "microagressions" can really slow down progress.
26
Senator Harris was pressing asst attorney general Rosenstein on securing Mueller stay as independent prosecutor,and she was ahead of the curve on this issue when Rosenstein was stalling,.She was talked over then.I respect John McCain but durning the Comey hearings I called up his office to get him off because he was rambling.If you want to correct someone should of let him know.
12
I'm a man. I teach 8th grade. Boys talk over girls all the time. I call them on it. I ask them to pay attention to how often girls interrupt boys. Almost never.
94
Not much to see here. This kind of spurious data free report is way beneath the quality expected from the nytimes. I've been to way too many meetings where someone has droned on or went off topic inexhaustibly. Myself included occasionally when I failed to express clearly or get to the point. Thankfully someone would interrupt and get the meeting on track.
14
Here is what happens: Women talk to each other in almost another language and do not let a man get a word in edgewise. If the man wants to make a point or ask a question, he has to interrupt.
12
Ever since the Bush presidency, the masculine image has become more chauvinist. Because of 911 and the wars, men became a worriers, most became chicken hawks, and women clamoured for ' a man that can protect me and keep me safe'
All this is retrograde and why a called the Bush presidency a flash dark ages. The tide was partly reversed during the Obama administration. But now, in this Trump era, all bets are off. Its cavemen Baby! Start liking it!!!
All this is retrograde and why a called the Bush presidency a flash dark ages. The tide was partly reversed during the Obama administration. But now, in this Trump era, all bets are off. Its cavemen Baby! Start liking it!!!
9
Probably the worst off are non-assertive men (they exist, I happen to know). In this artical they would get lumped in with the rest of the (assertive) men, but will never get any benefit of being pointed out as being shut up or shut down.
6
I'd add to Ms walker's comment having more women on boards NOT only empowers women, but forces men to change their ways. even if it's only the men members of those boards. What then happens is those boards acquire a tone, which hopefully carries forward.
women have had to fight for every single step they take. My hope is that as younger people today are much more open to race-blindness, sexual orientation-blindness, they will also become sex-blind.
And if so, then maybe, maybe a more equal treatment to all is not that far into the future.
I can hope, can't I?
women have had to fight for every single step they take. My hope is that as younger people today are much more open to race-blindness, sexual orientation-blindness, they will also become sex-blind.
And if so, then maybe, maybe a more equal treatment to all is not that far into the future.
I can hope, can't I?
11
Important issues not fully addressed:
1. Interruptions reduce the opportunity of the women to influence the discourse.
2. Intent is to reduce the power of the speaker.
3. My experience is that one technique used to reduce the power of the speaker is to comment on her style, aspect of behavior, nonconformity to a rule, norm etc. ( if you like I can give personal examples.) Subtle or blatant demeaning of the target is the effect of the interruption.
4. One effect of such interruptions is to disrupt the cognitive processing of the target. The person can "freeze up", doubt the correctness of her behaviors, experience a reduction of social power, feel demeaned, feel delegitimized, lose self confidence,.... these can sometimes result in shutting up and shutting down emotionally and intellectually and certainly slowing down her capacity to respond appropriately.
Hours, days and years later the target sometimes recalls the event and crafts responses that she might have made...wished she had made. Alas!
5. Research evidence in social psychology suggests that reduction in expected social power can lead to hostility. Such feelings are likely to result in internal conflict and immobilization of the target.
6. Bystanders bear responsibility for intervening when interruptions violate the norms of the group or violate the assumed equality of opportunity to engage in group interactions.
7. Interruptions reduce the effectiveness of the group as...contributions of the target reduced.
1. Interruptions reduce the opportunity of the women to influence the discourse.
2. Intent is to reduce the power of the speaker.
3. My experience is that one technique used to reduce the power of the speaker is to comment on her style, aspect of behavior, nonconformity to a rule, norm etc. ( if you like I can give personal examples.) Subtle or blatant demeaning of the target is the effect of the interruption.
4. One effect of such interruptions is to disrupt the cognitive processing of the target. The person can "freeze up", doubt the correctness of her behaviors, experience a reduction of social power, feel demeaned, feel delegitimized, lose self confidence,.... these can sometimes result in shutting up and shutting down emotionally and intellectually and certainly slowing down her capacity to respond appropriately.
Hours, days and years later the target sometimes recalls the event and crafts responses that she might have made...wished she had made. Alas!
5. Research evidence in social psychology suggests that reduction in expected social power can lead to hostility. Such feelings are likely to result in internal conflict and immobilization of the target.
6. Bystanders bear responsibility for intervening when interruptions violate the norms of the group or violate the assumed equality of opportunity to engage in group interactions.
7. Interruptions reduce the effectiveness of the group as...contributions of the target reduced.
35
As a child, my mother used to say that my motto was apparently that it was better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. In college, one of my professors once said that Estelle doesn't speak very often, but when she does, she has something to say.
During my 30 year corporate career, I was generally reticent during meetings, but when I deigned to speak, it was like the old EFHutton commercial, people listened. More often than not, I was the only woman in the meeting. At the end of meetings, it was generally inquired if I had anything to add, if I had not chimed in. I must have worked with a better class of men than most of the posters here. [Eight years of this was as a blue collar worker, followed by three years to finish my undergraduate degree and to get a masters degree, followed by 22 years as an accountant and executive. Both blue collar and white collar men always treated me with respect, along with the men and women who I brought along with me in the organization.]
None of this is to say that I was not generally communicative, but I grew up in a big family, and was never inclined to interrupt.
Others will appropriate good ideas, but a raised eyebrow will remind where the idea originated. I always took it as flattery when my ideas were so good that others momentarily forgot they hadn't thunk it up themselves. It is amazing what can be accomplished when it doesn't matter who gets credit.
During my 30 year corporate career, I was generally reticent during meetings, but when I deigned to speak, it was like the old EFHutton commercial, people listened. More often than not, I was the only woman in the meeting. At the end of meetings, it was generally inquired if I had anything to add, if I had not chimed in. I must have worked with a better class of men than most of the posters here. [Eight years of this was as a blue collar worker, followed by three years to finish my undergraduate degree and to get a masters degree, followed by 22 years as an accountant and executive. Both blue collar and white collar men always treated me with respect, along with the men and women who I brought along with me in the organization.]
None of this is to say that I was not generally communicative, but I grew up in a big family, and was never inclined to interrupt.
Others will appropriate good ideas, but a raised eyebrow will remind where the idea originated. I always took it as flattery when my ideas were so good that others momentarily forgot they hadn't thunk it up themselves. It is amazing what can be accomplished when it doesn't matter who gets credit.
13
I am guilty myself of interrupting my wife, but on most panels on TV news shows, you will see such interruptions to an egregious degree; the women are always shouted down or interrupted by men, whether it's a Fox News or an MSNBC opinion show.
41
Oh please this is old stuff. We all talk over each other. True men are usually louder and tend to dominate (at least to try). Go back and read "Games my Mother Never Taught Me". Women are making gains but the disparity remains. I'm much more interested in equal pay than in equal talk time.
6
I am a male and I can be talking to a woman and another male will walk over the just start taking with the woman (it doesn't seem to relate to the attractiveness or age of the woman). I never have this occur when I talk to men and I really can't understand it.
Kamala Harris's questioning was very poor, you can't answer every question with a yes or no as she was asking with Sessions, and McCain was more severely rebuked for improper questioning than she was. Overall, I do see a trend of women senators being cut off more than men, but I am not sure it wasn't justified in this case.
Kamala Harris's questioning was very poor, you can't answer every question with a yes or no as she was asking with Sessions, and McCain was more severely rebuked for improper questioning than she was. Overall, I do see a trend of women senators being cut off more than men, but I am not sure it wasn't justified in this case.
7
Kamala was not there as a prosecutor. I think the purpose of the hearings should be to uncover the truth, not to bully people into providing only the answers they want to hear.
13
Ridiculous observation. Sessions was trying to run out the clock on Harris and was allowed to get away with it by his Republican bros Burr and McCain. The questions she was asking pertained directly to whether or not Sessions had a clear legal basis for refusing to answer. Several of the questions reasonably required only a yes or no response, but that's not what Sessions offered.
29
I don't mind people expressing their opinions. We are all here to learn. But I do think statements like "ridiculous observation" is insulting, without adding value to the discussion.
6
Anecdotal studies and academic studies based on... anecdotes? I looked at the link to the study- is someone really going to sit in and have a scorecard every time a woman is interrupted? At university and wherever I've worked, or just in general conversation, the issue seems one of a lack of respect for when someone is speaking in general- not quite a gender issue. Sure there are plenty of contexts where it's because the other person is viewed as incompetent (which may or may not be, though I'd say in most cases isn't, related to gender). But really, if the perception of being interrupted is a major women's rights issue in our country, and note I say PERCEPTION, then women here have it really good. This is ridiculous and shouldn't be even worth our time.
10
Yeah. Who cares about data v
13
It is NOT just anecdotal. Harvard Business Review eviewed transcripts of the Supreme Court, and even there, men interrupted the female justices three times more often. The sad thing however is that women also interrupted women more often
14
What kills me is that so many folks here don't seem to realize that it doesn't matter how a woman acts. She can never get it right. I've tried so many different ways of communicating. If I explain fully, I'm labeled too chatty. If I keep quiet and just listen, I'm not engaged enough and need to speak up. If I'm direct and succinct, I'm not being mindful of others' feelings. I'm too loud, too soft, too assertive, too deferential, too precise, too vague, too smiley, too unfriendly. I'm either too feminine or not feminine enough. It is exhausting.
141
Senator Harris, like many other members of Congress, is a former prosecutor and she was trying to get through her organized questions. Sessions was playing dumb as though he didn't understand her questions and wasting her limited time. I've noticed over time that other former prosecutors (e.g.,Trey Gowdy during Benghazi hearings) can be aggressive and rude but lauded for their prosecutorial skills. Harris is most impressive and I'll be keeping an eye on her. The male senators could have let the clock run out but apparently Sessions needed rescuing from the mean woman.
63
The number one place women are interrupted: At home, by their husbands.
41
Baloney. No different than being even just one guy "conversing" with two women. Can't get a word in edgewise.
2
To cjhsa:
Talk about proving the article's point!
(Or am I talking too much?)
Talk about proving the article's point!
(Or am I talking too much?)
23
I worked for 40 years in a male-dominated field, software and systems engineering. One of the most humiliating experiences occurred when outsiders to our project were brought into manage a new development. The senior systems engineer described his job in flow charts as to "approve" others deliverables. That's all he wanted to do. The project manager couldn't write a project plan. I was assigned to work for this project. I complained to higher ups that that this was not a productive situation. In the end, I took 3 weeks leave and told the higher-ups that they should demand product while I was gone. When I returned, the outsiders were gone, but I was given a less-than-stellar rating that year because "we didn't know if you'd be willing to work on the project when you came back." This is not an isolated event. It's just the worst one of my long career.
31
This rings true. To get a word in edgewise, I hear women interrupting a man who says, "Let me finish!" He does and the next guy jumps in. Neither think to defer to the woman who tried to have her say. I observe women who are silent throughout the conversation. They don't even try. The lone woman who does try is reason enough for women who prefer harmony. The woman who speaks up is often treated like a gatecrasher at a party.
47
Men who defer are treated like doormats. Once the competiton starts, it's dog eat dog.
4
You can also watch Kamala Harris questioning General Kelly. She was not interpreted, but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qDXknx9uQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qDXknx9uQ
2
I don't support the NRA, but am immensely pleased with the way Kamala Harris stuck to her guns.
8
Parents of daughters should consider gently directing them to attend a women's college. The results are clear, as this op-ed piece in the Hartford Courant points out:
http://www.courant.com/opinion/op-ed/hc-op-free-case-for-womns-college-1...
http://www.courant.com/opinion/op-ed/hc-op-free-case-for-womns-college-1...
24
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
8
Kamala Harris for President.
44
That was classic. Exasperated General Kelly to Kamala Harris: "Before I start answering - will you allow me to finish my answer?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qDXknx9uQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8qDXknx9uQ
9
It surprises (and often depresses) me to discover how little has changed since the publican in 1970 of Germaine Greer's The Female Eunich.
25
Kamala Harris, former Attorney General of the State of California and Chief Public Defender in San Francisco, is unable to assert herself? Kirsten Gillebrand, lately Queen of the F-Bombs (to demonstrate that she is a serious woman and not to be trifled with), is bullied?
Oh, please, Times. This is part of the grievance industry.
Oh, please, Times. This is part of the grievance industry.
13
this article is not referring to women in nyc, who are among the rudest interrupters imaginable., maybe it has something to do with the skewed ration in my of single women to men. they feel they must scream to be noticed. ugh.
i hope the nyt published this post so i can enjoy both posts that respond with derisions or with the nods of agreement.
i hope the nyt published this post so i can enjoy both posts that respond with derisions or with the nods of agreement.
5
Could it be the women, in general, like talking and have a hard time getting to the point?
9
Because their little brains have trouble being concise and clear like ours and the funny little monkeys love to chatter? Yeah, Mr Mean, no. See, your day really is past, thank God. It is embarrassing to men now to hear it and remember how bizarre and full of it the old fellas used to be.
24
Their brains may actually be larger, and they may in cases be more intelligent than others in the conversation. However, my observation -- and it is only an observation -- is that women really like to explain themselves in great detail. No offense intended.
3
No.
19
Yes I agree manners have taken a backseat in public and private forum however I watched Senator Harris rapid fire questions to Jeff Sessions and disallowed his full response by interrupting him with yet another question until he requested she allow him to fully answer in a most polite way yet obviously frustrated by her, in my opinion, bad manners. If she was cut short it's because she was hostile and inappropriate. Yes she is new to the Senate yet it wasn't a trial. Too bad she didn't have that kind of passion defending the rights of California Citizens while she was the California Attorney General!!
9
He planned his answers to prevaricate and delay knowing her time was limited. Give me a break
25
Are women really the only ones who have something good to say about what men should be like? Could men have something good to say, too? Could men kind of know better what men should be like?
I think from when you're very young, in school, you experience that females are generally weaker and more submissive. Maybe we should kind of let the stronger, more aggressive sex be stronger and more aggressive, instead of trying to frustrate that. You know, maybe some feminism is good. I definitely believe that. But I don't know about 100% implementing some people's version of feminism, that's something that they're just kind of making up on their own, and trying to get going on the basis of maybe too little evidence.
You know, it could metaphorically be like people in different professions being given power over each other's profession when they don't really know enough about each other's professions. I'm not sure the most feminists of American feminists always really know as much about what's good for humanity as people think. They're a subset. It's like one kid chasing a piece of candy that she's going to eat herself, and then being able to convince the entire class that it's the class' goal. They should all make a minority be the one who gets to eat the candy, and not worry about what else it means.
Men shouldn't be absolutely oppressive, but a problem doesn't need too much cure, too much correction.
I think from when you're very young, in school, you experience that females are generally weaker and more submissive. Maybe we should kind of let the stronger, more aggressive sex be stronger and more aggressive, instead of trying to frustrate that. You know, maybe some feminism is good. I definitely believe that. But I don't know about 100% implementing some people's version of feminism, that's something that they're just kind of making up on their own, and trying to get going on the basis of maybe too little evidence.
You know, it could metaphorically be like people in different professions being given power over each other's profession when they don't really know enough about each other's professions. I'm not sure the most feminists of American feminists always really know as much about what's good for humanity as people think. They're a subset. It's like one kid chasing a piece of candy that she's going to eat herself, and then being able to convince the entire class that it's the class' goal. They should all make a minority be the one who gets to eat the candy, and not worry about what else it means.
Men shouldn't be absolutely oppressive, but a problem doesn't need too much cure, too much correction.
4
You really have no clue as to the subject, do you?
30
I think that Iwhat is even more interesting is that women who have moved up the corporate hierarchy have adopted to similar behavior in dealing with subordinates who are women.
12
I believe all of these narratives. But I also believe that there is no reason to sulk or retreat. Perhaps because I grew up with a vocal mother and several brothers, but in no way do I accept not being heard, especially if I get the idea that it's a battle of the sexes. I just don't accept being told how to behave. The battle on sexism has been won legally, and in my view, that is in the rear view mirror; if the guys have a problem with it, that's their growing pain, not mine/ours. And I am not even particularly polite about such encounters anymore, which I find a sexist request in many ways (though of course it can be just civil). Bottom line, I just speak up. That said, I found that Harris encounter to be more about legalese than sexism.
The only thing that can be upsetting is that sometimes when I speak my mind, it can be met with an anger that feels violent. That's the one that makes me hesitate.
The only thing that can be upsetting is that sometimes when I speak my mind, it can be met with an anger that feels violent. That's the one that makes me hesitate.
18
"The only thing that can be upsetting is that sometimes when I speak my mind, it can be met with an anger that feels violent. That's the one that makes me hesitate. '
Can you blame them? If any conversation turns into a battle, and you get all worked up, and misinterpret everything as a sexist attack, they don't have to take it either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander! Maybe they're thinking "if she has a problem with it, that's her growing pain, not ours."
Can you blame them? If any conversation turns into a battle, and you get all worked up, and misinterpret everything as a sexist attack, they don't have to take it either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander! Maybe they're thinking "if she has a problem with it, that's her growing pain, not ours."
"Interrupting" is a tactic used most effectively by authoritarian conservatives to obstruct truth, change the subject, and twist a narrative to their liking.
Condoleezza Rice was very effective at interrupting her interrogators while giving "testimony" during 9/11 Commission hearings. Thus the investigative efforts into the August PDB, "Osama bin Laden Determined to Attack the US", and the reasons for the Bush failures to effectively use any intelligence to try to prevent 9/11 were both skillfully deflected by her. My female cousins wanted to "slap her" for her behavior. Brenden "Potted Plant" Sullivan's senate hearing interruption helped save the Reagan presidency. Interrupting an "adversarial" guest is a tactic long employed by Fox News interviewers to shape narratives to suit Murdoch's and Fox fan's political views. The Republican senators are doing the same thing here. I hope Ms Harris will be treated fairly in the future, but will also be ready fight back forcefully whenever she is interrupted.
Condoleezza Rice was very effective at interrupting her interrogators while giving "testimony" during 9/11 Commission hearings. Thus the investigative efforts into the August PDB, "Osama bin Laden Determined to Attack the US", and the reasons for the Bush failures to effectively use any intelligence to try to prevent 9/11 were both skillfully deflected by her. My female cousins wanted to "slap her" for her behavior. Brenden "Potted Plant" Sullivan's senate hearing interruption helped save the Reagan presidency. Interrupting an "adversarial" guest is a tactic long employed by Fox News interviewers to shape narratives to suit Murdoch's and Fox fan's political views. The Republican senators are doing the same thing here. I hope Ms Harris will be treated fairly in the future, but will also be ready fight back forcefully whenever she is interrupted.
22
I remember well serving on a nonprofit board with about 10 men and 2 women. The men were allowed to speak freely, but I, a female, was told I had to raise my hand at one of the early meetings I attended. And then, it didn't mean I was called on. I resisted at the next meeting and jumped into breaks in the conversation. The other female rarely spoke during the meetings. I wasn't reprimanded again, but I decided to stay only for a year. I served on many boards over the years and suffered frequent interruptions and even some sarcasm when I asked difficult questions for leadership, but that was the worst experience.
11
I am a consultant who works with many organizations, in many different types of industries with many different functional disciplines. I've been doing this for 32 years. One observation I have (no, not a statistical study) is that women are slower to make judgment, have more patience for differing points of view and do more listening than talking. Men are quick to pass judgements, want to assert their voice over others (male or female) and have a very hard time really listening.
33
Out talked, outnumbered white heterosexual men mirror phenomenon,covered verbatim in article, across consensus, nurturing (infantilizing) snow flaking college campuses.
4
Awaiting sentencing.
The men who say that gender inequality is a myth or that they don't ignore and interrupt women and disregard their opinions (especially in the workplace) are living in a privileged fantasy world. Just like white people will never know what it is like to go through life as a person of color, men will never know what it is to be treated from birth as if you were innately "less than" a man. Just ask Hilary!
32
I am not in favor of Mr. Sessions and have no dog in this "race." But I have to say here that I was listening to the hearing live on the radio. I had never heard of Ms. Harris before, but after half a century of hearing Washington hearings, I must say that Harris was not only rude and belligerent but one of the worst interrupters I have ever heard in such hearings. She did not let Mr. Sessions finish many of his remarks before asking even another question. This went on repeatedly. I think Sessions was too kind and courteous in not calling her out on this.
8
"Kind and courteous"?? Give me a break. He's a cunning man who lies and "does not recall".
11
I avoid male doctors whenever possible. The only one I still see is a specialist who, after asking what my symptoms are, interrupts to tell me that I 'talk too much.' Unless the man's a mind reader, I really do think he needs to let me finish.
30
I'm so tired of this cliche. Men interrupt men. Women interrupt men. Women interrupt women. Please. Grow up.
12
As JF from San Diego so succinctly put it:
"Both men and women talk over subordinates. Men tend to assume that all women are subordinate."
...and subordinate men tend to have less testosterone, the magic elixir of competitiveness and aggression. Winning feels better to high-testosterone men than the rest of us, so such men will always want to win. Everything!
Accordingly, I don't see why women complain so much about what seems to me a natural and inevitable behavior. Women get talked over, just like us normal-testosterone men do, because there is nothing we can do to prevent it, no matter how experienced and qualified we may be. The best strategy I have found in 35 years' business experience is to pick my critical fights and try extra-hard to win them, and to otherwise acknowledge my body is just not the same sort of physiological system as the "big guys" inhabit, so I can't realistically expect to compete with them on an overall basis.
JimJ
"Both men and women talk over subordinates. Men tend to assume that all women are subordinate."
...and subordinate men tend to have less testosterone, the magic elixir of competitiveness and aggression. Winning feels better to high-testosterone men than the rest of us, so such men will always want to win. Everything!
Accordingly, I don't see why women complain so much about what seems to me a natural and inevitable behavior. Women get talked over, just like us normal-testosterone men do, because there is nothing we can do to prevent it, no matter how experienced and qualified we may be. The best strategy I have found in 35 years' business experience is to pick my critical fights and try extra-hard to win them, and to otherwise acknowledge my body is just not the same sort of physiological system as the "big guys" inhabit, so I can't realistically expect to compete with them on an overall basis.
JimJ
4
Men never interrupt women. And even if they do, women get the last word. Don't worry about Senator Harris. They're scared of her and for good reason.
1
A few years ago I had the chance to see a male executive treated in the way that women are virtually every day. For some reason a side conversation picked up steam and he struggled to be heard and paid attention to. He literally turned red, sputtered and attempted to restart his sentence several times. He angrily gave up. I will never forget it because it was something that every woman I know has had to deal with regularly and has learned to ignore. Obviously it had never happened to him before and he really struggled to handle himself.
There is an almost invisible layer of condescension that most women have to absorb silently every day. How much more effective we would all be if we could get past these silly behaviors and start treating each other as respected team members.
There is an almost invisible layer of condescension that most women have to absorb silently every day. How much more effective we would all be if we could get past these silly behaviors and start treating each other as respected team members.
119
OMG! Human nature is everywhere! Call out the thought-police!
Seriously, I'm a polite, soft-spoken man and I am interrupted by women far more than I am by men. I lead classes and usually the women are doing all the talking, handing off to each other, and the men don't have a chance.
I was at a party months ago, three women, four men. Try as we might, the men couldn't get a word in. Not a word. We sat there silent for an hour.
Women are verbal acrobats, far better at speaking. The women I know can spit out multiple paragraphs while I'm still trying to remember why I'm here. Then they can sip a little air and fire off three more paragraphs. Before I've even processed them, another three. There are a lot of silent husbands and boyfriends out there.
I'm also interrupted by men all the time. Most folks have no idea how to have a conversation. When I'm interrupted for the third time, I raise my voice and sternly say "Will you please stop interrupting me? Do you think only your viewpoint is important?". If they persist, I point it out again. And again. If they, male or female, won't stop, I will yell loudly "Stop interrupting me!". Try it.
Seriously, I'm a polite, soft-spoken man and I am interrupted by women far more than I am by men. I lead classes and usually the women are doing all the talking, handing off to each other, and the men don't have a chance.
I was at a party months ago, three women, four men. Try as we might, the men couldn't get a word in. Not a word. We sat there silent for an hour.
Women are verbal acrobats, far better at speaking. The women I know can spit out multiple paragraphs while I'm still trying to remember why I'm here. Then they can sip a little air and fire off three more paragraphs. Before I've even processed them, another three. There are a lot of silent husbands and boyfriends out there.
I'm also interrupted by men all the time. Most folks have no idea how to have a conversation. When I'm interrupted for the third time, I raise my voice and sternly say "Will you please stop interrupting me? Do you think only your viewpoint is important?". If they persist, I point it out again. And again. If they, male or female, won't stop, I will yell loudly "Stop interrupting me!". Try it.
8
I have resorted to bellowing " Hey I'm Talking Here!!" Shuts em up a bit.
Then, while being interrupted in other situations I halt at the interruption, wait for their opinion to ride me out, then refuse to continue my narrative. Wasn't important to you while I was making a point, no? Fuggedaboutit.
Listening is a skill.
Then, while being interrupted in other situations I halt at the interruption, wait for their opinion to ride me out, then refuse to continue my narrative. Wasn't important to you while I was making a point, no? Fuggedaboutit.
Listening is a skill.
The most frequent fight that I have with my best friend is that SHE won't stop interrupting me (a man). I guess I'll have to read this study, but sure sounds like another stereotype to me.
6
What women call men interrupting them is often what we men call trying to get a word in edgewise.
10
My partner was one of two command staff level police officers. Whe she drove her police vechicle the number of people, "outraged" that she was driving her husband's car was unbelievable!
13
Sessions knew exactly what he was doing when he replied to the female Senator's rightfully deliberate questioning with his anxious retort that "...it makes me nervous"..." to [go that fast]: he was portraying himself as being bullied, so as to generate sympathy from his male colleagues. In fact, Sessions is a seasoned Beltway player and dodger who knows exactly who to play and how to dodge and how to get away with it.
29
I use a gender neutral handle on Twitter. I recently changed my picture from a navy and white pattern to a floral one. Immediately, I was called Missy and Lady and many responses were much more hostile.
One can't be advised of locasiousness in 140 characters. The bias is real.
One can't be advised of locasiousness in 140 characters. The bias is real.
15
This isn't deep. We as women are long winded and expressive where as men have short attention spans and a superiority complex. There is bound to be conflict. Rather than constantly have the sexist debate let's compromise, women get to the point and men be patient. There I just solved world peace.
6
I'm not long-winded.
15
What's funny is, when men have interrupted me (a man), women bosses have told me to be more assertive. When men interrupt them, they get to say it's sexist.
5
Ms. Harris was interrupted as she was seeking to see if Sessions had really been following policy as he had stated. Her questioning was brilliant in cornering Sessions to where he was trying to weasel out of admitting he had never seen such a policy. Of course, this is not to say that the propensity for interrupting a woman is standard operating procedure when men are in the room.
10
I saw the interchange between the two- Ms. Harris asked a question and if the answer wasn't returned fast enough she interrupted to badger Mr. Sessions. Trained as a trial attorney, always a trial attorney. She was rude, unprofessional and, to put it politely, a jerk. Mr. Sessions, who belonged in Congress prior to becoming AG, should have been shown the respect that is expected from fellow senators. Mr. Sessions should have thrown out his old Southern guy card to counter her Black Woman in despair card.
11
Now imagine being a woman AND a minority.....we aren't even in the room.
19
On a similar track, I wrote this blog about being at a healthcare conference a few years ago. Men love to dominate the conversation, because of course they are superior in both intelligence and physical capabilities them women (tongue in cheek). They are also wind bags and pontificators. Here is my blog called Windbaggery and Pontification.
http://mcclearymrsaprevention.com/?p=1283#comments
http://mcclearymrsaprevention.com/?p=1283#comments
4
My husband recently interrupted me in the middle of a sentence. When I protested, he said "I had to! You just kept going on!" It was the first sentence I had uttered.
31
I am a woman who has worked in male dominated fields (Engineering and Quantitative Finance) for over 30 years and it's MUCH worse for a woman now than when I started. It used to be that my work counted and now it doesn't. I can spend 2 months doing something and some guy can spend two minutes pasting my results into his document or presentation, and HE then gets ALL the credit. "Teamwork" does not reward the workers, just the opportunists.
28
Mr. Sessions answered Senator Harris's concision by genteelly bloviating in an effort to run the clock and avoid answering her direct questions. He was aided and abetted by the Chair. And, yes, the "appropriateness" of the joint maneuver rested firmly on the precedence of condescension routinely handed female speakers by their male counterparts.
15
"Men coming to our company are astounded by how many women we have. They love it!"
They're lying! I work in the public sector and 3/4 of us are women. They act the same way when they're in the majority.
They're lying! I work in the public sector and 3/4 of us are women. They act the same way when they're in the majority.
3
Oh, for heaven's sake. Interrupt back. That's what I do. It's actually accepted that what I say is relevant and useful and I get the floor. I had to develop that reputation, though. And I don't get mean, retaliate or try to call anyone out, just do it.
Now, if someone legitimately has the floor, I do try to control myself...
Now, if someone legitimately has the floor, I do try to control myself...
5
Honestly, after watching and now replaying their interchange, what I see is Senator Harris interrupting AG Sessions and rightfully being corrected by the chair to allow AG Sessions to answer instead of her grandstanding. I'm sorry, but this particular exchange does not support your theory about men interrupting women.
9
Seriously? AG Sessions was trying to waste time so he didn't have to have more questions from her. He never directly answered her questions but went off on tangents. The Chair should have interrupted him not Ms. Harris. I'm sorry but this particular exchange only reinforces what our Democracy is up against.
15
The male condescension behind the issue may also play out as an ongoing factor in the near future for the potential presidential candidacy of Senator Warren and/or Senator Gillibrand.
9
Did anyone consider Deborah Tannen's groundbreaking work, In a Different Voice? It discusses brilliantly how men and women communicate. Here is a big surprise: Men often speak competitively. They therefore interrupt. Why this is not tolerated from women, I am going to hazard, involves a violation of men's innate expectation that women interrupting violates a gender specific communication code of conduct. Time to evolve.
15
I often observe couples where the men are silent while the women are talking nonstop. Maybe it's necessary to interrupt just to get a word in.
7
Couples have a life time to listen to each other. Marriages and professional situations are not equivalent...Let me guess, Mister.
15
There is a disconnect here. We are constantly told these days that women are fearless and indomitable, are capable "warriors" and belong in the Army Rangers and Navy SEALS. Yet this article complains that men "universally" interrupt them.
Pro tip: if a man tries to interrupt you, don't let him. It's really that simple, and doesn't require supportive articles in the Times to implement.
Pro tip: if a man tries to interrupt you, don't let him. It's really that simple, and doesn't require supportive articles in the Times to implement.
8
"Don't let him interrupt you" - and get fired when management decides that your action, however civil, was insubordinate. Contain your incredulity, Mr. Dude, because this is a common occurrence regardless of your simplistic suggestion.
17
Do you really think that Richard Burr telling Sen. Harris that her time was up counts as "cutting her off?" I mean, it's sort of a point of parliamentary procedure that each senator gets a certain (limited) amount of time....
5
Not exactly how it went down. Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about it.
10
This is stupid. What do you call it when men do it to other men? Why aren't men complaining when this happens to them.
3
Whining isn't viewed as a positive or constructive attitude amongst men.
1
If it hasn't happened to you, you are either not a woman or don't work with men.
7
Watch Morning Joe....on any day. Joe Scarborough verbally slaps Ms. Brzezinski silent .....constantly....AND THEY ARE ENGAGED!
12
Ms Brzezinski is horrible. I would like to watch the show, but I don't because of her,
1
Senator Harris. The SENATE (southern) good ole boy network doesn't care for 'HER'. STONEWALL Sessions 'views' haven't changed much over the years.
A woman challenging 'him' was an 'insult'. A senator of 'color' ASKING HIM a question an 'injury'. JOHN McCann invited guest and a very rude guest 'saw his way clear' on 2 separate.. OCCASIONS.. to interrupt.. ONLY... SENATOR HARRIS. Our Senators 'lack of decorum' smacks of 'good old boy' traditions.
A woman challenging 'him' was an 'insult'. A senator of 'color' ASKING HIM a question an 'injury'. JOHN McCann invited guest and a very rude guest 'saw his way clear' on 2 separate.. OCCASIONS.. to interrupt.. ONLY... SENATOR HARRIS. Our Senators 'lack of decorum' smacks of 'good old boy' traditions.
12
Something I learned to do in meetings where everyone is interrupting and no one is listening is work,in pairs. When one of you gets the floor, no matter how fleetingly, say "Mary here had a great idea" and point to her, usually people stop and wait to see,what she has to say. Then she does the same for you next time. It really helps
Oh and those here that say women are too long-winded and dont get to the point - sometimes that's true but generally women get no chance to make ANY point
Oh and those here that say women are too long-winded and dont get to the point - sometimes that's true but generally women get no chance to make ANY point
11
The article title should be, "The Universal Phenomenon of Feminists Ignoring the Fact that the Woman Interrupted the Man Twice Before Being Interrupted Herself To Be Told to Let the Man Finish the Answering the Question the Woman Asked Before Interrupting."
9
Men interrupt other men, too. I'm not justifying interrupting women, but it isn't some conspiracy by men against women, men do it to each other plenty often as well.
4
I watched the hearing, and she was not allowing him to answer. She had certain points she wanted to make which were presented as long winded, adversarial "questions." If she burned through her time, it's her own fault for asking such long "questions."
13
Sessions was not interested in providing any information - he was "stonewalling."
16
Funny how people see what they want to see. He was dodging. She persisted and he needed to admit there was no written policy that supported him. She was conducting an interrogation. I wanted him to get to the point. Maybe you didn't.
16
Guess I viewed different footage than everyone else here, because what I saw was her dishing out a barrage of questions and not even giving him a second to answer. Here's how having a conversation works. One person asks a question. They then allow the person they are speaking with to answer. It is not that hard. She seems to take the tactic of shouting someone down the way you would see two people getting into an altercation on the subway or street corner. And it shows. This all boils down to one side stewing in resentment that they lost an election. Then playing victimhood and identity politics to the hilt, even when they are the ones behaving badly. Can't elitists on the coasts figure out the rest of the country is sick and tired of their identity politics?
8
Well, Andy, she did manage to uncover Sessions' contempt of Cingress for all to see!
11
Kamala come off as weak, argumentative and easily intimidated. No Dem Pres nomination for you.
9
I spent ten years getting interrupted by the CFO during my tenure as a CIO at the business process company. Why did I take it? Because he had the power to delay key budget processes that would impact my team and our ability to do our job. As a passive-aggressive personality, I had to endure to ensure I could do my job.
7
I am a non partisan woman who was leaning center left until the liberals started becoming irrational after Trump won. I am tired of every time a powerful woman gets interrupted, the media and the liberals make it into sexism. I do not believe this helps the feminist cause. It will not translate well into helping women on a day to day basis. It will just make women into whiners and men more cautious in dealing with women. It won't gain women respect by complaining all the time. Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren are powerful women. If they can't handle powerful men, then maybe they should not run for President in 2020. We need strong female role models. Apparently, they are not the ones.
7
Who are the ones?
5
Maybe men should be "more cautious" when dealing with women, rather than feeling free to bull over them, at least as cautious as with other men. My wife is a physician, a brilliant diagnostician, and the head of a hospital prior to her partial retirement. And I myself have heard men condescend to her; once a doctor bulled over her in an ER, having no idea that she was more advanced and knowledgeable than he was. He found out, however, soon enough. Surely if you are in fact a "non-partisan woman", you must have seen this sort of thing yourself. I know I've seen it, frankly, and your view that discussing this means women "can't handle powerful men" makes me wonder if you're exactly on the mark when you claim the gender you do. (Although living in Oklahoma, I do sometimes see women who will throw other women under the bus to please men, it's true.)
22
Don't forget how Matt Lauer, interviewing candidate Hillary Clinton, kept interrupting her. But not candidate Trump. "As briefly as you can," Lauer chided Clinton before she had even begun to answer one question.
33
I think there are two types of people, one telling conclusions first then reasons and the other way around. They often accuse each other, too decisive for the former and being irritated for the latter. I feel women tend to do the latter and that is exactly our case in chatting over dinner. Of course, I manage just hearing for 10 minutes or even more.
I have mixed emotions on this topic. As the child of Caribbean immigrants, I was raised to listen, let people speak and not interrupt. "You can't hear and understand if you're busy talking", my mom used to say. It took a while to realize that this rule didn't really exist outside our home. In my workplace meetings, men and women cut each other off equally. The meetings drag on endlessly because everyone is speaking and nobody is really listening. Perhaps statistically women are interrupted more frequently than men, but I find that in general, we just don't listen to each other.
13
Many years have passed since I first heard this feminist complaint, and now I'm inclined to think maybe it's one of the things we shouldn't totally be concerned with getting rid of. I think more just an awareness that it's not totally nice might be good enough.
I think maybe we've done a lot of harm in addition to a lot of good by trying to adjust things between men and women, and by seeing things normatively, according to an ideology, instead of descriptively, more like how an anthropologist or something would see it. Do men naturally act a certain way and women act a certain way because it's the way they're supposed to act, instead of because it's just an evil?
If you look at the world, there are plenty of powerful women now. There were even powerful women thousands of years ago. The newspaper will run a headline about a glass ceiling, forgetting that that term really applies to a situation where men were preventing women from having certain jobs. If it's not the men's doing in a particular context, then it's not a glass ceiling, and it's like an unjust smear to call it that. You know, if the boys and the coach weren't trying to keep girls off the baseball team, and then a girl joins, she didn't break a glass ceiling, she instead was just allowed to be on a baseball team.
I'm just kind of wondering lately if stuff like race relations and demographic shifts maybe have part of their origin in feminism, and if maybe we became too convinced we needed women's thinking.
I think maybe we've done a lot of harm in addition to a lot of good by trying to adjust things between men and women, and by seeing things normatively, according to an ideology, instead of descriptively, more like how an anthropologist or something would see it. Do men naturally act a certain way and women act a certain way because it's the way they're supposed to act, instead of because it's just an evil?
If you look at the world, there are plenty of powerful women now. There were even powerful women thousands of years ago. The newspaper will run a headline about a glass ceiling, forgetting that that term really applies to a situation where men were preventing women from having certain jobs. If it's not the men's doing in a particular context, then it's not a glass ceiling, and it's like an unjust smear to call it that. You know, if the boys and the coach weren't trying to keep girls off the baseball team, and then a girl joins, she didn't break a glass ceiling, she instead was just allowed to be on a baseball team.
I'm just kind of wondering lately if stuff like race relations and demographic shifts maybe have part of their origin in feminism, and if maybe we became too convinced we needed women's thinking.
5
Jack, you say in conclusion, "maybe we became too convinced we need women's thinking." Well, what on earth does that mean? Do you seriously mean that?
As my dad once said to me when I was about 12, we can't afford to ignore half the world's brains. He meant women. He's gone now, but there's rarely a week that goes by when I don't think about my lovely dad, and that conversation that encouraged me to be all that I've become. And to keep talking, when as a female executive in a room full of men who for some foolish reason of their own, weren't willing to listen to what I have to say.
As my dad once said to me when I was about 12, we can't afford to ignore half the world's brains. He meant women. He's gone now, but there's rarely a week that goes by when I don't think about my lovely dad, and that conversation that encouraged me to be all that I've become. And to keep talking, when as a female executive in a room full of men who for some foolish reason of their own, weren't willing to listen to what I have to say.
18
Half of "us" ARE women, Jack. And we are not to allow their thinking in our world? Whatever are you thinking?
17
Interruption is gender-less.
5
High time we elected a woman president.
10
Another fun fact. If you're a woman and you come up with a good idea in a meeting, you are ignored or hooted down. Give it a few beats. Then a man will make the same proposal to great acclaim.
141
So true. Actually, it's starts in universities, before you even get a job, where they talk over you. The female students try to raise their hands before speaking, but the (male) teaching assistant just continues with an all-male conversation while the women just stare and watch in frustration. Then the male students score higher for 'participation'. They are often just repeating the previous observations of the female students, but the men all nod now and listen to this revelation.
12
As JF from San Diego pointed out, subordinates are often interrupted and have their ideas stolen and/or their opinions dismissed, irrespective of gender (https://goo.gl/7DLQGq). As an admin assistant, and the only man in my office, this happens to me quite often.
1
So true, in my experience. Think of how much meeting time could be saved if we just cut out the middle man, so to speak.
2
In no particular order or level of significance, and with no specific reference to the news items which generated this, I (a male over age 50) am going to share some personal observations about communication styles from a life in the workplace:
--Some women have difficulty in meetings because they have a narrative style which requires too much time to deliver their point, inviting interruption;
--When multiple men interrupt frequently in meetings it's often an indicator that the organization and/or their immediate superiors lack credibility with them and they are frustrated;
--Working class people, (and most particularly women from verbally abusive homes) have the tendency to take all critiques or suggestions as personal and threatening, making reasoned discussion of performance tricky;
--People who have at least a bachelor's degree communicate more effectively than higher or lower employees who have no college experience, including company owners.
--Some women have difficulty in meetings because they have a narrative style which requires too much time to deliver their point, inviting interruption;
--When multiple men interrupt frequently in meetings it's often an indicator that the organization and/or their immediate superiors lack credibility with them and they are frustrated;
--Working class people, (and most particularly women from verbally abusive homes) have the tendency to take all critiques or suggestions as personal and threatening, making reasoned discussion of performance tricky;
--People who have at least a bachelor's degree communicate more effectively than higher or lower employees who have no college experience, including company owners.
Good to know that you have 'working class people' in Connecticut! However, they can be a diverse group of people, and actually some do achieve bachelor's degrees, so I think you're contradicting yourself here.
The multiple men thing is possibly true, in that you get a competition for alpha male and this may increase interrupting as a form of one upmanship.
I don't think anyone is 'inviting interruption'. There are professional ways for the chairperson to direct the meeting and to ensure the schedule and agenda are adhered to while also avoiding disrespect to colleagues and limiting the interrupters. It indicates a poor management style in the organisation.
The multiple men thing is possibly true, in that you get a competition for alpha male and this may increase interrupting as a form of one upmanship.
I don't think anyone is 'inviting interruption'. There are professional ways for the chairperson to direct the meeting and to ensure the schedule and agenda are adhered to while also avoiding disrespect to colleagues and limiting the interrupters. It indicates a poor management style in the organisation.
4
Rich, Kamala Harris was trying to get Sessions to get to the point. Or more precisely, an answer which he seemed determined to avoid. So she wasn't doing what you think women in general too often do. I guess in this case, Sessions was taking the long route through narratives, perhaps to run out the clock.
9
Strike one: Democrat
Strike two: Black
Strike three: A Woman
Strike two: Black
Strike three: A Woman
13
I'm and interrupter. I come from a family of interrupters.
Once a point is obvious the rest of a sentence or paragraph is unnecessary. I interrupt frequently and I don't resent interruptions. I think they move things along. When an interrupter didn't get the point, I talk over the interrupter and take the floor again. I expect to be talked over in the same circumstances.
And, NOBODY steals my ideas.
I'm from NJ. I'm thinking that may be part of it.
Once a point is obvious the rest of a sentence or paragraph is unnecessary. I interrupt frequently and I don't resent interruptions. I think they move things along. When an interrupter didn't get the point, I talk over the interrupter and take the floor again. I expect to be talked over in the same circumstances.
And, NOBODY steals my ideas.
I'm from NJ. I'm thinking that may be part of it.
6
The art of conversation and discussion has rules and regulations passed down from family members across the generations in my family. I cherish the after holiday meal conversations I listened to and participated in...when it was evident that I had something to say, although just a little girl, my Uncle Ralph would raise his spread fingered palms gently and caution the family members...."do not ignore the kingpost, she has something to say" I have not stopped talking since then. But I have learned the rules of dialog, conversation, polite interchange and patient turn taking.....we need to offer courses such as those based on Carl Rogers' ideas of self actualization and fulfillment....and Martin Buber's works explaining the I and the Thou.
You can have your turn now....
You can have your turn now....
9
Wow! "I and Thou" brought up in these hostile times. That is exactly what is needed. Thank you for reminding me.
4
Blessings on Uncle Ralph!
1
I am not trying to negate what reality so clearly shows. Still, would like to think it may not be as much a gender issue but the education we received at home, and the mutual respect derived from it in our social intercourse. Unless the martians are landing on your roof, one must not interrupted each other; try to listen instead; and for a change, be nice and appreciate the input of all involved. And when our turn comes, we better have something worth to say.
6
So--how hard is it to document what you do, document your ideas and to whom and when you presented them, and to speak up when they've been appropriated by others?
If you don't fight for yourself, no one will do it for you.
Do women not undercut other women? Have you never had a supportive male colleague?
Society doesn't change until each member of it takes a stand in that person*s individual sphere.
If you don't fight for yourself, no one will do it for you.
Do women not undercut other women? Have you never had a supportive male colleague?
Society doesn't change until each member of it takes a stand in that person*s individual sphere.
5
Go into the sanctity of the family home. There my guess is that women speak roughshod over men.
2
Once I was the only woman at a meeting and a man at the meeting asked me afterwards what I was doing there. Literally, "what were you doing at that meeting?" I said, "the same thing you were doing, Joe Blow."
16
McCain in particular has a record of saying some pretty not-nice things about his own wife.
I'd like to see if McCain interrupted a Republican woman assertively questioning a member of a Democratic administration.
Is he even more chauvinistic than he is partisan, or the other way around?
I'd like to see if McCain interrupted a Republican woman assertively questioning a member of a Democratic administration.
Is he even more chauvinistic than he is partisan, or the other way around?
6
Before all of you Kamala Harris supporters get too enthusiastic and start campaigning to nominate her for the Democratic Presidential nomination next election, you should know that she thinks it should be illegal to keep a weapon in your house to defend yourself against criminals, and filed a brief in San Francisco supporting a (thankfully, unsuccessful) effort to enact a law providing the same.
4
More importantly, Senators have had a losing record in trying to win the Presidency.
I am a political leftist, no fan of AG Sessions or this Administration, and an unapologetic (male) feminist, but it seems clear to me that Senator Harris was the one repeatedly interrupting Mr. Sessions.
3
kamala 2024. 2020 is too soon.
1
alphas vs alphas
Is there any real research?
Is there any real research?
1
Wolf Blitzer interrupted and bullied Jane Sanders earlier this afternoon on CNN during an interview about the shooting in DC. Jane was criticizing the media in general for not covering issues of concern to citizens in lieu of sensational tweets, etc. Blitzer interrupted her to talk over her to defend media coverage. Jane Sanders had to calmly wait to speak again. I was horrified to watch the thoughtless behavior of Wolf Blitzer..
10
Maybe he has to be 'chief wolf' in the CNN pack!
You're not even taking into account that outside the corporate world is the actual world in which men routinely smirk, roll their eyes, cry out GET TO THE POINT and just talk right over the woman. She then, humiliated before her friends, family, or colleagues, must muster her backbone, and gamely make her point while everyone around her is chuckling. I realize that men who are themselves unsure of their position within these environments, do these things to put down the confident, assertive woman in order to maintain their so-called status. It is the secure, self-confident man, strong in his own skin, who relishes dynamic dialogue with intelligent women because he is not threatened by these encounters, but is enhanced by them. Two roads diverge on the walkway of life, and the strong men take the one less traveled. That will make all the difference.
14
Please update the heading to "The Universal Phenomenon of [Some] Men Interrupting Women."
2
It's more accurate as it is.
6
Obviously my wife was not interviewed for this article. Not only can't I interrupt her, I can barely get a word in during a conversation.
4
Don't worry, in all likelihood another woman would have no better luck than you. That's just the way some people are.
1
Read Deborah Tannen's books, esp "Talking 9-5" for lots of research and examples of this topic. Fascinating but a bit depressing.
4
Attention artists: Please create a work that fits this title: "The Mansplaining of Europa." Thank you.
1
I learned a painful lessen from my dad when I was only 6 years old. He was talking to a neighbor when I interrupted him with a question pertaining to his conservation. He stopped talking and right in front of our neighbor, he yelled at me with such fervor and intensity I thought he was going to smack me. He screamed that I should never interrupt anyone when they are speaking. He said, "You wait for the pause or break in conversation before you speak". Granted, he was right in setting me straight, however, the manner, tone and embarrassing measures he took to correct my behavior was extremely painful. And memorable. But I learned. To this day, I don't rush in with my opinion nor do I bulldoze my thoughts when someone else is speaking. It's a matter of being polite, considerate and thoughtful. Frankly, I see women as often as men either hogging a conversation or rudely interjecting their spin on whatever the topic is. Regardless, I find interrupting anyone's conversation as rude and just plain wrong.
12
Marge, I hear you and I generally agree with your intentions on being polite but disagree with how to carry ourselves forward. I say, speak up if in a meeting and ideas are discussed. I say speak up if there is a problem to solve and suggestions are being made. I don't think it's rude; I think it is conversation.
I have to ask: I wonder if your father would have yelled at a brother in the same way? That whole male rage thing is part of why women step back. We should step back long enough to size up how to stay safe.
I have to ask: I wonder if your father would have yelled at a brother in the same way? That whole male rage thing is part of why women step back. We should step back long enough to size up how to stay safe.
7
I learned a painful lessen from my dad when I was only 6 years old. He was talking to a neighbor when I interrupted him with a question pertaining to his conservation. He stopped talking and right in front of our neighbor, he yelled at me with such fervor and intensity I thought he was going to smack me. He screamed that I should never interrupt anyone when they are speaking. He said, "You wait for the pause or break in conversation before you speak". Granted, he was right in setting me straight, however, the manner, tone and embarrassing measures he took to correct my behavior was extremely painful. And memorable. But I learned. To this day, I don't rush in with my opinion nor do I bulldoze my thoughts when someone else is speaking. It's a matter of being polite, considerate and thoughtful. Frankly, I see women as often as men either hogging a conversation or rudely interjecting their spin on whatever the topic is. Regardless, I find interrupting anyone's conversation as rude and just plain wrong.
32
Unfortunately there are situations where people deemed unimportant are not given any chance to speak because the self important person never stops talking for a second.
1
I hear you, but I have been in many, many conversations where I DID politely "wait for the pause," but was STILL chastised that "I wasn't done yet." And I will also say that although I know women who "ramble," those women are not the people who object to being "interrupted" at the pause.
2
My experience? If men didn't interrupt women they'd never get a word in edge-wise. It's the near incessant talking that almost requires interruption.
5
LOL. On the other hand, if women didn't speak, the rest of us would be unable to.
1
Let this be a learning moment for all of us.
For better or the worse, our representatives merely represent us and our proclivities.
For better or the worse, our representatives merely represent us and our proclivities.
1
Although some readers say that Senator Harris was "tough" or "performing her job", my reaction was different. By not permitting the witness to finish an answer, Senator Harris was not tough; rather she was rude and bullying because she did not permit Sessions to answer a question that she had inartfully posed. Instead of waiting for an answer, she repeatedly interrupted the witness to urge, suggest or demand a different answer. While teher is no question that Sessions at times was not being responsive, your remedy is not to interrupt the witness, but to pose another question, i.e. "thank you for that information sir. However my question is whether you there is a written DOJ policy on the subject. Could you please answer the question." If she or any male had behaved like that in a courtroom, the vast majority of judges would have had the same reaction as Senator Burr or McCain. A bullying attorney would have been admonished to permit the witness to answer the question. It isn't an issue of sexism; rather it is one of common decency and manners.
8
Sessions was wandering in his answers and completely avoiding her specific questions.
6
Nope. The men interrupted plenty. It was only the woman who was told to be quiet. She had a job to do and the witness was trying to run out the clock before she got the answers she was looking for. She had every right to interrupt his dissembling.
12
The problem is the darn time limits on the Senator's time. She has to press otherwise a crafty witness will simply dissemble.
6
I am an attorney and my best friend is an engineer. I was among the first female attorneys where I practiced and she was the first female engineer many of her collegues had seen. We both confronted men very often who treated us like "dumb women."
Over the years we have called each other to trade stories of men who put us down before knowing that we did, in fact, know what we were talking about. We even had fun with men who underestimated us.
I felt like I had to break in the newer male attorneys. I knew what I was doing and I proved it. At the same time, I occasionally let the men show everyone in the courtroom just how "dumb" they were.
Men underestimate women at their peril. Some of us will just have fun with you. However, some situations are important enough that men need to stop and figure out how much they are hurting their client, their customer or their project when they talk down to a woman who might just know more than they do.
Over the years we have called each other to trade stories of men who put us down before knowing that we did, in fact, know what we were talking about. We even had fun with men who underestimated us.
I felt like I had to break in the newer male attorneys. I knew what I was doing and I proved it. At the same time, I occasionally let the men show everyone in the courtroom just how "dumb" they were.
Men underestimate women at their peril. Some of us will just have fun with you. However, some situations are important enough that men need to stop and figure out how much they are hurting their client, their customer or their project when they talk down to a woman who might just know more than they do.
20
If you as an attorney ever entered a courtroom and treated a witness like Kamala Harris treated Jeff Sessions, the judge (woman or man) would tell you that is not how witnesses are treated. You can ask witnesses questions, but they can answer. Female or male doesn't matter. Common courtesy does.
Same in the Senate. Kamala Harris doesn't get a pass from showing common courtesy just because she is female. She too needs to obey the rules.
Same in the Senate. Kamala Harris doesn't get a pass from showing common courtesy just because she is female. She too needs to obey the rules.
3
Harris was interrupted by McCain because Sessions was clearly in trouble in answering her questions. Whether its a he or she probably didn't matter much. I thought McCain was a good guy but his interruption as a guest attendee before the Chairman said anything was way out of line.
75
In a meeting at our office with a software company sales rep, who knew that his success in making the sale depended on my decision, he became annoyed when I was asking too many questions. In front of three of our staff members, he cut me off and told me: "Stop talking."
11
I hope you said, "Okay. My answer is no."
8
The Republicans, after interrupting her rudely and unprofessionally, then had Trump's minions claiming Senator Harris was "hysterical."
That is the typical reaction women always get from white guys who are afraid of their growing irrelevance in their field.
When we are not called "hysterical," we are "nasty" and "demanding" or we "talk too much." We don't know our "place," and we cannot exist without a man - any man - to tell us what to do, what to think, where to invest or what decisions to make about anything at all (except laundry, diapers, sewing, cooking, and looking good).
I can only wonder how their mothers raised them.
That is the typical reaction women always get from white guys who are afraid of their growing irrelevance in their field.
When we are not called "hysterical," we are "nasty" and "demanding" or we "talk too much." We don't know our "place," and we cannot exist without a man - any man - to tell us what to do, what to think, where to invest or what decisions to make about anything at all (except laundry, diapers, sewing, cooking, and looking good).
I can only wonder how their mothers raised them.
129
Maybe they all hate their mothers?
"White men" have "growing irrelevance" in their field? Why should any particular race, sex, or gender be irrelevant? Sounds like you and the Far Right have similarities in your discriminating, micro-aggressive discourse. the political spectrum is a circle, not a line. Here's part of the evidence.
Try being the only man on the view. It's swings both ways.
1
What? In Kamala Harris's case, she was the interrupter, not the interruptee. She would ask a question of Jeff Sessions and then as he was starting to answer she would cut him off in mid-sentence with another question.
Any lawyer knows that very few judges will tolerate that in a courtroom. You have the right to ask a question, but the witness has the right to answer. If a witness is evasive or does not respond to the questions asked, a lawyer can get the judge to admonish them. But that was not the case here.
Politicians need to be polite just as much as the rest of us. More so, I think. John McCain and Richard Burr were right to step in. Anyone in charge of proceedings like this should have, male or female. Any judge, male or female, would.
Any lawyer knows that very few judges will tolerate that in a courtroom. You have the right to ask a question, but the witness has the right to answer. If a witness is evasive or does not respond to the questions asked, a lawyer can get the judge to admonish them. But that was not the case here.
Politicians need to be polite just as much as the rest of us. More so, I think. John McCain and Richard Burr were right to step in. Anyone in charge of proceedings like this should have, male or female. Any judge, male or female, would.
4
If you were listening carefully, you would have been aware that Sessions could not or would not answer her questions. I took note of the fact that you are not criticizing any of the male Senators who asked questions exactly as she.
10
I listened carefully. Several Senators, male and female, asked pointed questions of Jeff Sessions that were not answered the way they wanted. They let that be known. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that.
Kamala Harris interrupted Jeff Sessions before he could answer the question. She would ask a lengthy question, he would start to answer, and she would cut him off with a new question.
That's a cheap lawyer's trick. Any judge I know would not stand for it. I didn't see any other senators -- male or female -- doing it. I guess Kamala Harris thinks as a woman of color she's entitled not to observe the common courtesy that has been part of the senate for centuries.
Kamala Harris interrupted Jeff Sessions before he could answer the question. She would ask a lengthy question, he would start to answer, and she would cut him off with a new question.
That's a cheap lawyer's trick. Any judge I know would not stand for it. I didn't see any other senators -- male or female -- doing it. I guess Kamala Harris thinks as a woman of color she's entitled not to observe the common courtesy that has been part of the senate for centuries.
3
In what world does McCain, only there as ex-officio, have the right to interrupt "the interrupter?" You can make an argument for Burr, in charge, but McCain was doddering, off the rails, and he did it twice in two weeks. Not right.
5
And an uncomfortable thought for many:
Does anyone has any doubt that Hilary Clinton lost because she is a woman?
Does anyone has any doubt that Hilary Clinton lost because she is a woman?
13
In a word: yes.
1
Yes, I don't believe that at all. Hillary lost because she was the former First Lady. Just think back about all the First Ladies during the past sixty years - how many would you have voted to become President, Marianne?
1
Please read many comments left here - professional women confirm that they are being interrupted, talked over, shut down, their ideas disregarded only to be used later by others.... There are many reasons for this- majority of them not voiced. Disrespect is one of them.
Yes, H. Clinton had many problems - but the level of hate she got should give you a hint that the criticism of her was emotional and bias not constructive and evidence based- even if it was masquerading us such. To many persons who give me arguments WHY she lost - I say that I strongly believe this was because she was a strong woman and many men- and women(unfortunately) cannot stomach this. Too bad for us all.
Yes, H. Clinton had many problems - but the level of hate she got should give you a hint that the criticism of her was emotional and bias not constructive and evidence based- even if it was masquerading us such. To many persons who give me arguments WHY she lost - I say that I strongly believe this was because she was a strong woman and many men- and women(unfortunately) cannot stomach this. Too bad for us all.
11
Geez seriously. Most people who have power abuse it. If they don't start out that way, they learn fast.
All this mention of Joe Scarborough and Christ Matthews? Watch Joy Reid lately? God help you if your answer isn't what she wanted to hear from you.
Stand up for yourself. Can*t do it? Don't blame the bullies. They get that way because they see it works. Retrain them.
We women are not weak. If we choose not to assert ourselves, if we sit quietly when someone steals our ideas or talks over us, we are complicit.
All this mention of Joe Scarborough and Christ Matthews? Watch Joy Reid lately? God help you if your answer isn't what she wanted to hear from you.
Stand up for yourself. Can*t do it? Don't blame the bullies. They get that way because they see it works. Retrain them.
We women are not weak. If we choose not to assert ourselves, if we sit quietly when someone steals our ideas or talks over us, we are complicit.
3
Growing up in a family of mostly women (my mom and 3 daughters) there was still clear dominance by the two males: my father and brother. I have vivid recall of never being listened to, of always being talked over at the dinner table. But I have come to understand that my mother remained silent and enabled the men to diminish us. In the 21st century, it is still often other women who enable misogyny. Example: "Women for Trump." Yes, we are being silenced. But we must look inside our flawed, learned behaviors and realize we, are, in fact, too often being SILENT ourselves, and therefore, complicite.
7
My anger of being interrupted regularly got calmed after reading this article that there are studies after studies and I shouldn't take this phenomena personally. I will however, not give up on moving forward to make this article irrelevant in my generation one day.
22
On the construction site the general contractor accused me (a woman, designer) of taking too much- his justification why they were lagging behind the schedule.
7
As a psychologist, I want to ask: are we absolutely sure that
David Bonderman meant that either women talk more than men or
that women dominate the conversation in an off purpose way.
I would want to assess if he possibly meant that men only talk in a linear way and women ADD to the conversation by drawing men out to perhaps consider other transpositional matters. Of course, if he heard of my comment, I would have to trust his response a tad less but it doesn't rule out my question.
For years I have joked about female and male roles, and I have only one time been accused of sexism. A lot of meaning is to be found in the speaker's intention. Did David Bonderman consciously or unconsciously intend to be sexist?
The comment that women talk more then men is my also my observation. I only become sexist if I think that women talking more is a bad thing. I consider it a good thing that opens new pathways, save marriages and
even companies and governments. See Michael Lewis BOOMERANG when the women of Iceland took over the government.
David Bonderman meant that either women talk more than men or
that women dominate the conversation in an off purpose way.
I would want to assess if he possibly meant that men only talk in a linear way and women ADD to the conversation by drawing men out to perhaps consider other transpositional matters. Of course, if he heard of my comment, I would have to trust his response a tad less but it doesn't rule out my question.
For years I have joked about female and male roles, and I have only one time been accused of sexism. A lot of meaning is to be found in the speaker's intention. Did David Bonderman consciously or unconsciously intend to be sexist?
The comment that women talk more then men is my also my observation. I only become sexist if I think that women talking more is a bad thing. I consider it a good thing that opens new pathways, save marriages and
even companies and governments. See Michael Lewis BOOMERANG when the women of Iceland took over the government.
3
My only comment, based upon a lifetime of personal experience, is that being "interrupted, talked over, shut down or penalized for speaking out" is nearly a universal experience for men when they are outnumbered by other men
Does anyone seriously believe that members of Congress are more civil to each other when only men are involved in disagreements? I suggest people randomly access C-Span recordings of any public Congressional debate on highly contentious matters. They'll see that men do not discriminate by gender when they aim vitriol at an opposing view.
Does anyone seriously believe that members of Congress are more civil to each other when only men are involved in disagreements? I suggest people randomly access C-Span recordings of any public Congressional debate on highly contentious matters. They'll see that men do not discriminate by gender when they aim vitriol at an opposing view.
6
"Academic studies and countless anecdotes make it clear that being interrupted, talked over, shut down or penalized for speaking out is nearly a universal experience for women when they are outnumbered by men."
Want an anecdote? Here's one - every year we have an IEP meeting for my son.
I think about my son. A lot. And I have a lot to say. I am thoughtful, articulate and serious about what my son needs now and in his future. And I talk. A lot.
I have literally been the only man in a room filled with as many as six, seven, eight woman. In the most recent meeting two women began a conversation WHILE I was speaking. I called them on it and their resentment was palpable.
Part of the untold story is there are whole lot of women who have nothing to say or don't have the skill or confidence to articulate what they do want to say - and they deeply resent men who can.
Want an anecdote? Here's one - every year we have an IEP meeting for my son.
I think about my son. A lot. And I have a lot to say. I am thoughtful, articulate and serious about what my son needs now and in his future. And I talk. A lot.
I have literally been the only man in a room filled with as many as six, seven, eight woman. In the most recent meeting two women began a conversation WHILE I was speaking. I called them on it and their resentment was palpable.
Part of the untold story is there are whole lot of women who have nothing to say or don't have the skill or confidence to articulate what they do want to say - and they deeply resent men who can.
3
So...men interrupt women because women "have nothing to say," or don't have the ability "or confidence" to speak effectively. But the women who interrupted you during the hearing must have done so because they are bitter jerks, not because you were going on at length or had nothing worthwhile to say. Is that it?
15
Yeah, and there are plenty of guys with nothing to say who insist that we women shut up and listen to them JUST because they're men.
And BTW, the fact that you expected hushed, respectful silence from your audience says a lot about your attitude toward women. Maybe what you were saying wasn't of interest to the women who started talking. Or maybe you're not as thoughtful and articulate as you think you are.
And BTW, the fact that you expected hushed, respectful silence from your audience says a lot about your attitude toward women. Maybe what you were saying wasn't of interest to the women who started talking. Or maybe you're not as thoughtful and articulate as you think you are.
11
There are whole lot of man who have nothing to say or don't have the skill or confidence to articulate what they do want to say - and they deeply resent women who can.
13
I recently joined a regional arm of the Federal Reserve; never have I seen more of what this article describes than my entire career in the private sector.
13
Thank you for writing this article. Whenever I have an opportunity to place my mostly female department in a position to have their voices heard, I take it every time. Unfortunately I can't say the same for my mostly male senior staff and how they elevate the discourse among their female staffs. Always a work in progress.
7
This daily occurrence is not surprising when it is put into the perspective of American popular culture. How are men and women portrayed in movies and TV? I think if we were to closely examine everything that has been described on this feed - interrupting women, questions deferred to males, etc. - they will all be present in the movies and TV shows we were raised on. Consider then what we teach our children when they watch these movies and TV shows...
7
Blaming popular entertainment is a dual-edged sword. What we see on TV does affect us. However, entertainment is also a reflection of ourselves. It is too simplistic to say it is "the problem". It may be a *part of the problem or it may be a *symptom of the problem.
1
Dale Spender wrote about this back in the 1980s--studies of women being interrupted. And she also did studies timing how long women spoke in a class vs how long men spoke and consistently, women were experienced as speaking longer when they spoke much shorter times than men. They were seen as shrill if they were passionate, while men were seen as committed and strong. Google Dale Spender and take a look at her work. And the problem remains.
39
This starts early in schooling, and is one of the points in favor of separate-gender education (which according to the research tends to benefit girls, whose participation levels skyrocket, but hurt boys). Of course, that just means girls who go to schools without boys are more confident and score better in quantitative areas--it doesn't mean boys in any setting ever learn that other people are allowed to talk regardless of the gender of the speaker, or the pitch or amplitude or color of their tone. (I raise the chicken-egg question of whether men unconsciously interrupt and ignore female voices because they sound quieter and less assured, or whether we tend to associate those acoustic characteristics with women and discount them accordingly, to the primary disadvantage of women.) I was well into my 20s before I realized I do this, and it's not an easy habit to break, because--and I imagine this is often the case for millennial men outside the Bro-fold--it is fully unintentional, and even embarrassing (when pointed out).
One imagines a better solution would be egalitarian and manner-intensive pedagogy in a coeducational setting from early childhood: calling on students of either sex equally; refusing to reward impolite behaviors disproportionately engaged in by boys, like calling out correct answers or interrupting other students with them; and requiring shy students to overcome their proclivities with unpleasant but necessary practices like calling on non-volunteers
One imagines a better solution would be egalitarian and manner-intensive pedagogy in a coeducational setting from early childhood: calling on students of either sex equally; refusing to reward impolite behaviors disproportionately engaged in by boys, like calling out correct answers or interrupting other students with them; and requiring shy students to overcome their proclivities with unpleasant but necessary practices like calling on non-volunteers
14
And furthermore, where are the men telling the interrupters to stop interrupting? I guess that's too tall an order?
25
It's not always our place. If we're all equals in, say, a boardroom, and one guy is interrupting someone else, it's patronizing and presumptuous to complain on her entirely capable behalf.
Of course, power dynamics matter here. if there is a superior and a subordinate, the superior can and should be the person setting decorum by rebuking violators of etiquette. Male or female, that isn't patronizing because it's not out of place to tell a subordinate interrupter to stop being a nuisance, regardless of whether the victim herself chooses to respond to it.
Of course, power dynamics matter here. if there is a superior and a subordinate, the superior can and should be the person setting decorum by rebuking violators of etiquette. Male or female, that isn't patronizing because it's not out of place to tell a subordinate interrupter to stop being a nuisance, regardless of whether the victim herself chooses to respond to it.
3
MCcain is a sad old grumpy white man,and its sad to see him in the mental state he is in now. HE was way out of line .He was a GUEST in the hearing,,.HE knows that Kamala Harris is so much more smart,interesting and professional. unlike mCCain and tom cotton, they are a joke and need to be voted out!
14
Harris had limited time, as evidenced by Sen. Burr cutting her off and telling her her time had elapsed. So it was essential that she not let Sessions drone on, especially if he was not answering the question asked. She was serving the public interest in interrupting Sessions if he was running out the clock on her allotted time.
37
Kamela Harris has just advanced from a triple-A team to the major leagues. She's a rookie who just had a chance at bat. She exposed Sessions for prevarication, but she didn't get answers and she allowed herself to be interrupted. I'd call that a double. Not bad for a rookie.
Question: Would those same people have interrupted DiFi or Nancy Pelosi? Was it about seniority or about her sex?
Question: Would those same people have interrupted DiFi or Nancy Pelosi? Was it about seniority or about her sex?
9
Nancy Pelosi was interrupted repeatedly just a week or so ago while holding the floor and being in control of the time.
6
Ms. Harris is just as good at stonewalling questions that she doesn't like as does the Attorney General. Watch her in action here, especially around 4:00, on the issue of whether a child in an ideal world would do better with a mother and a father, versus two same sex parents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSspXlRn9AU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSspXlRn9AU
3
This is a television interview. What Kamala Harris's responses in a television interview tell us about an attorney general evading questions while under oath at a senate hearing? Nothing. Nothing at all.
6
Ms. Harris didn't stonewall Prager. She just refused to answer a question that would have made her choose between false equivalents. She refused on the grounds that she wouldn't make a decision about a child on so little information. That seemed reasonable to me. I believe any sane person would have told the social worker to go back and get more info to help her decide which set of parents were better for the child. Prager refused to accept her truthful answer -- in order to dominate her will, I would say, to force her to choose an unrealistic outcome that had nothing to do with what she was trying to say.
Both did plenty of interrupting because the moderator refused to do his job and moderate the conversation, but if anything Prager did more dominating the conversation than Harris did.
Stonewalling is refusing to give a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. Harris answered the question with what she would actually do. Sessions claimed not to know, not to remember, or blathered on about a different subject wasting the few minutes the questioner was allocated -- another form of stonewalling.
Both did plenty of interrupting because the moderator refused to do his job and moderate the conversation, but if anything Prager did more dominating the conversation than Harris did.
Stonewalling is refusing to give a reasonable answer to a reasonable question. Harris answered the question with what she would actually do. Sessions claimed not to know, not to remember, or blathered on about a different subject wasting the few minutes the questioner was allocated -- another form of stonewalling.
6
Alas, Prager said explicitly that he was posing the question with all else being equal. She wouldn't answer a reasonable hypothetical, but instead rejected the premise. That's called stonewalling. In a court of law, were she an expert, she would have been instructed to answer. I think everyone who watches knows what her answer would be.
This is a good topic for everyone. I've been aware of the fact that men interrupt women 75% of the time for quite awhile. So I not only put the lid down but also try to not interrupt women. Sometimes I get exercised and forget, however.
In the case of Sen. Harris, I at first saw a freshman senator being schooled in the senate's decorum rules. And I saw Republicans playing stupid defensive games with an assertive Democrat before I saw old men interrupting a politically aggressive Trump critic. I also saw an old man named Sessions showing his sexist approach to a smart, annoying woman.
While I was unhappy to see Sessions try to pull an Obama and filibuster his way out of a tight situation, I also was a bit bothered by the senator's demands for yes and no answers to questions that didn't lend themselves to such brevity.
As a NeverTrump/NeverHillary conservative, I will share this story with my GOP Facebook friends/critics.
In the case of Sen. Harris, I at first saw a freshman senator being schooled in the senate's decorum rules. And I saw Republicans playing stupid defensive games with an assertive Democrat before I saw old men interrupting a politically aggressive Trump critic. I also saw an old man named Sessions showing his sexist approach to a smart, annoying woman.
While I was unhappy to see Sessions try to pull an Obama and filibuster his way out of a tight situation, I also was a bit bothered by the senator's demands for yes and no answers to questions that didn't lend themselves to such brevity.
As a NeverTrump/NeverHillary conservative, I will share this story with my GOP Facebook friends/critics.
4
Don't oversimplify. Put Ann Coulter in a debate against three men and she will interrupt more than the three combined. Defective manners and bad ethics know no gender.
7
I won't oversimplify if you don't introduce one of the towering outliers in the history of deliberate deceit as an example.
25
Harris was just trying to get answers to her questions. Sessions was stonewalling her. She was right to press him for responsive replies. Her male colleagues were disrespectful to her.
28
Ever heard the complaint: I couldnt get a word in edgewise? I never heard a woman say that. Many women tend to talk non-stop, so the ONLY way to get a word in is to interrupt.
4
Game. Set. Match.
2
Well, I'm a woman. And I can't ever get a word in edgewise when I talk to my brother. I'm not exaggerating by saying I may get 1 minute of interrupted talking in for every 20 minutes he talks. So, yes there are men who talk way too much, and women who can't get a word in. Now you know.
5
Just imagine if David Bonderman had said what candidate Donald Trump said about women!
He would have been elected President.
He would have been elected President.
1
Related is the annoying male habit of trying to hold the floor even when they literally have nothing to say! I have a colleague who regularly does this in meetings, stammers, "Uhhhh, wait, I forgot what I was going to say. Wait, Wait. It'll come to me. Nope. I forgot." For an entire minute. Ugh! No woman would DARE.
10
Almost as bad as the one who feels he MUST contribute even though it is off-topic and trivial. Keep them off the meeting invite at any cost!
8
Why did Senator Harris not complain about another Senator cutting her off ?It was none of McCain´s business. He wasn´t chairing. And of course he would have been wrong to interrupt even if he was.
Fact is, Harris wasn´t not letting Sessions answer her question but not letting him get away with NOT answering. Sessions talked about some vague ´principle´, not the policy DOJ Harris was asking him for.
Despite McCain´s rudeness, we all noticed that Sessions was unable to answer Harrris's questions. So maybe Harris didnt´protest because she knew that this would play in her favour. But I think she still should. Any attempt to shut women down should meet with protest.
Fact is, Harris wasn´t not letting Sessions answer her question but not letting him get away with NOT answering. Sessions talked about some vague ´principle´, not the policy DOJ Harris was asking him for.
Despite McCain´s rudeness, we all noticed that Sessions was unable to answer Harrris's questions. So maybe Harris didnt´protest because she knew that this would play in her favour. But I think she still should. Any attempt to shut women down should meet with protest.
14
I am sure that Kamala Harris has considerable experience with this, being seen as both Black AND a woman. The cultural Double Whammy. It tends to activate peoples' subconscious racism and sexism simultaneously. I'm sure the mental image in the minds of some of the more testosterone-driven committee members was that of the "uppity Black woman." The irony of this is that she's not Black! She's of mixed descent, of which Black is only one part of it. But the wheels of justice - and the minds of men - grind exceedingly SLOWLY.
9
I get interrupted all the time in business, and just as often by women as by men.
My sex isn't even relevent. What is, however, is the continuing decline of courtesy by both men and women, toward both men and women.
My sex isn't even relevent. What is, however, is the continuing decline of courtesy by both men and women, toward both men and women.
7
Absolutely correct! There are even two senior people I work with who don't say goodbye or otherwise end phone conversations, they are so self-important that they simply hang up. (No, they are not as important as they think they are!)
This behavior needs to improve.
This behavior needs to improve.
2
Harris is an intellectual lightweight with diarrhea of the mouth, continually interrupting the AG as he attempted to answer her McCarthy like questioning!
One more poseur with aspirations of higher office and little ability!
One more poseur with aspirations of higher office and little ability!
6
For the record 1-2+ years ago Gloria Steinem appeared on the Charlie Rose show. She allowed Charlie to interrupt her once and attempt to do so again once. Then she cut him off and interrupted him each time he tried to interrupt or talk over her. SHE DID THAT INCESSANTLY, talking over him constantly, actually artfully making her remarks still easy to understand and his seem jibberish, until he stopped. IMO more women need to do the same all the time whenever and wherever men attempt to silence and dismiss us.
31
Great Gloria Steinem story! Charlie Rose is one of the the worst interviewers, constantly interrupting people who are more intelligent and learned than he. One night, he interrupted Bill Clinton so often that Clinton finally told him to stop so forcefully that Charlie finally shut up. What followed was a brilliant political lecture from Clinton that beat any professor I have ever heard.
When interviewing a genius, shut up and listen. We and Charlie have plenty to learn.
When interviewing a genius, shut up and listen. We and Charlie have plenty to learn.
9
Don't forget to mention contempt and the resulting condescending attitude. Men have serious issues with women, and many women do too, because monkey see, monkey do. The unconscious habit of thinking you know better is a result of pride, and a false pride at that. I don't care if you are young, old, liberal, conservative, vegan, hunter...the assumption that because you are hip or smart or whatever is just blinding you. The reality is, you need to experience stress and fear extinction. You need to draw distinctions - between your lover, mother, teacher and me. Just practice thinking of people as people - leave the gender analysis at the door and just be present. Show up with some principals such as respect, integrity, professionalism and restraint. Question your stress. Check it at the door. Learn to differentiate between someone you are judging or wooing and someone you work with or for. Understand that the result of your communication is all that matters - so yeah, you are going to have to make an effort to communicate effectively. How? How about reflect back what you hear and allow as a method of checking in to see if you are connecting. Also, check your temptation to dominate - replace the behavior with acknowledging - just stop having an opinion unless it's asked for. Keep up this practice and it will create a shift in all your relationships.
5
Just treat condescension as a different kind of accent and move on. Condescension provides no value in business.
I just watched Wolf Blitzer interview Bernie Sander's wife today. He was rude, and interrupted her numerous times. He seems to think that being a big media star entitles him to interrupt at will. I think she handled it well. She should have said to him, "Shut up and let me finish!" A man would have been more aggressive to Wolf. She should have been as well. She was too nice to the rude media star.
7
Harris is running for president. She wasn't interrupted. She herself interrupted again and again in the hopes of getting a breakout moment. She also knew that if she were properly reprimanded by Senator Burr that she could play the sexist card. There was no down side for her. Come on people. These are politicians. Senator Harris is not some poor woman in a secretarial pool. She's a shark and she wants to win.
7
Well put! Couldn't have said it better
1
It wouldn't be worth writing an article about it applied to one woman. Ms. Harris- a shark? Maybe. You- a woman? No.
1
So glad to see this article was written. I would like to ask "What is up with (some) men?!" but we all know. Sexism. A kind of subtle verbal attempt to re-establish male dominance particularly when the woman is winning the "fight"? Inappropriate and kind of abusive, perhaps. Having had similar interruptions in profession situations, I was so angry when Kamala Harris was interrupted. She was the hardest hitter of the lot. The need to interrupt her only confirmed that. Keep up the good work Ms. Harris. We need more women and men like you.
9
The article is a canard: if anyone pushes you--whatever your sex--you push back. If you don't push back, you've lost--simple as that.
Conversation is akin to war--and men are the historic warriors. Women can do it, too, but blaming men is not the answer.
Conversation is akin to war--and men are the historic warriors. Women can do it, too, but blaming men is not the answer.
3
Sorry, but my view is that when conversation is war, nobody listens, nobody is persuaded to hear a different viewpoint and nobody wins.
3
Men interrupt everybody, regardless of sex. Its just that other men are so busy re-interrupting, so they don't notice. Its an aggressive conversational and negotiating style that a lot of women aren't comfortable with. Although it seems that Kamala Harris should be, given her own conversational style.
2
Having grown up at a dinner table being constantly interrupted and talked over by the males in my family, I learned early to immediately confront the interrupter and say "may I finish speaking.". When I see Senators Burr and McCain interrupt Senator Harris repeatedly, it strengthens my resolve to help more women be elected to office. The disdain for Senator Harris, who did nothing that the rest of the Senators didn't do, was remarkable for the fact that Senator Burr seems to believe he can be disrespectful to this female Senator with impunity. He cannot. This will be remembered.
13
Eleanor Clift, formerly of the McLaughlin Group, should give these hampered women of politics & business some lessons on being heard in a male dominated setting. Sonority counts, even on that TV program she called a "televised food fight."
3
How about this for a change? I am a white man, I don't experience my world the same way a woman does, so I am willing to try and listen to women and their experiences and take them into account for the future. The same goes for trying to listen to and appreciate the experiences of minorities. The term is empathy. I suggest we all try and practice it.
12
Bless you, Sir.
3
This is just more of the national rush to disunion: Men vs women. The article is pure anecdote. I think this works both ways. Some people, women and man ignore the visual clues that it is time to pause and let the other party exclaim, respond or change the subject.
BTW Senator Harris was the one talking over her witness, pretending poorly to listen to what he had to say.
But maybe she learned this bad behavior from her male House (Republican) counterparts as they grilled Mrs. Clinton over Benghazi.
BTW Senator Harris was the one talking over her witness, pretending poorly to listen to what he had to say.
But maybe she learned this bad behavior from her male House (Republican) counterparts as they grilled Mrs. Clinton over Benghazi.
2
Chris M,
You have misstated the findings of that Stanford report. From the first paragraph:
The preliminary findings of the research reported here indicate there are definite and patterned ways in which the power and dominance enjoyed by men in other contexts are exercised on their conversational interactions with women.
You have misstated the findings of that Stanford report. From the first paragraph:
The preliminary findings of the research reported here indicate there are definite and patterned ways in which the power and dominance enjoyed by men in other contexts are exercised on their conversational interactions with women.
9
"A ream of studies affirm such anecdotes. Researchers consistently find that women are interrupted more and that men dominate conversations and decision-making, in corporate offices, town meetings, school boards and the United States Senate." And below this paragraph, discussion of some of those studies. "Pure anecdote" would mean nothing but stories told by individuals. I would say that the comments by Barry Meisenberg and Chris M are purely anecdotal. But this story? Nope.
5
Wear a dress for a day and get back to us.
6
As a Jewish native New Yorker woman, interrupting someone is not unknown to me. Usually, it's the sign that I'm engaged in the conversation, not trying to override someone. Both men and women of my background often do it. In fact, I miss that conversational style in the more Roberts-Rules-of-Order west coast where I now reside.
But there's a big difference between that and the filibustering that many men (on both coasts and probably in between) engage in. You can often see it in the extreme in TV and radio talk shows where men indeed often talk over and shut down women.
But there's a big difference between that and the filibustering that many men (on both coasts and probably in between) engage in. You can often see it in the extreme in TV and radio talk shows where men indeed often talk over and shut down women.
9
I watched both the Comey and Sessions hearings and witnessed McCain cut Harris off in both - scolding her, essentially. It infuriated me. At least in the second hearing, the chairman told McCain he'd run things. But he also admonished Harris.
I work in a male dominated field. I'm often talked over and even ignored. I don't know a single woman in the workplace who hasn't experienced similar treatment. It's good to have this discussion.
I work in a male dominated field. I'm often talked over and even ignored. I don't know a single woman in the workplace who hasn't experienced similar treatment. It's good to have this discussion.
24
First, I want to be real clear here - I am in no way weighing in on the quality of the Times article. I am responding to the comments listed in response to it.
I work as engagement manager in management consulting which is an incredibly male-dominated environment and have made it work and fight back as needed.
One of the things I insist upon with all the young men and young women on my teams is politeness and respect. We all listen to each other and no one interrupts. I don't care how someone chooses to communicate - we all have a voice and deserve to be respectfully heard. If someone on one of my teams is interrupting or otherwise being disrespectful, I shut it down immediately regardless of gender.
If you're on here criticizing how women communicate, and think one way is superior to another based on some broad gender-basis I would urge you to reflect on that.
You may be missing the larger point here. We all have different communication styles. None are "right" or "wrong" - they are different. Your preferred style is likely close to way you communicate. If you fail to recognize this, you may be missing the ability to extract valuable work or relationships from your teams, employees, friends and other.
I work as engagement manager in management consulting which is an incredibly male-dominated environment and have made it work and fight back as needed.
One of the things I insist upon with all the young men and young women on my teams is politeness and respect. We all listen to each other and no one interrupts. I don't care how someone chooses to communicate - we all have a voice and deserve to be respectfully heard. If someone on one of my teams is interrupting or otherwise being disrespectful, I shut it down immediately regardless of gender.
If you're on here criticizing how women communicate, and think one way is superior to another based on some broad gender-basis I would urge you to reflect on that.
You may be missing the larger point here. We all have different communication styles. None are "right" or "wrong" - they are different. Your preferred style is likely close to way you communicate. If you fail to recognize this, you may be missing the ability to extract valuable work or relationships from your teams, employees, friends and other.
8
But Rachel isn't the whole article a criticism of how men communicate? And isn't your "no-interruption" policy a rejection of one communication style?
I would urge you to reflect on that.
I would urge you to reflect on that.
4
How timely. Just this week at my job, where I am a female in a leadership role, I was called an abrasive bully just because I tried to edit a policy one of my subordinates produced. And I do interrupt in meetings, so I am sure that was shocking to the men around me. We have a long way to go in this country - witness the last election.
15
In my professional life, I have found a predominant interest in efficiency, a rise in skills or knowledge to be usurped by the need to be seen as the origin of an idea. In keeping with the premise of this article, I can say that this fell to my male colleges.
As these instances occurred with enough frequency to be tedious, I came to challenging them by saying, 'either we can go for this now or wait until the idea bubbles up six months later by someone who miraculously, all on his own, has had an epiphany to the same effect. Depends on how much dust you want to eat (buddy).'
The point that is so astounding about the painfully slow process of waiting for the 'original' idea to surface, is that there was never any cognition that the idea was ever original. The whole phenomenon eclipses progress, excellence and expertise every time and with such genuine oblivion.
Interruptions? Haven't we all been directed at some early point to never do it? Now it is the right of some and not others. Re Ms Harris: I respect her sense of duty to cut short Sessions' eternal references to his inability to "recall". Certainly this signaled some to circle protectively around this poor confused fellow.
And, what about this committee of men working behind closed doors to slash our healthcare program? In a way, it prevents them from being accused of interrupting women, half the US population. This is a shocking interruption at the very least and falls to power over, clearly.
As these instances occurred with enough frequency to be tedious, I came to challenging them by saying, 'either we can go for this now or wait until the idea bubbles up six months later by someone who miraculously, all on his own, has had an epiphany to the same effect. Depends on how much dust you want to eat (buddy).'
The point that is so astounding about the painfully slow process of waiting for the 'original' idea to surface, is that there was never any cognition that the idea was ever original. The whole phenomenon eclipses progress, excellence and expertise every time and with such genuine oblivion.
Interruptions? Haven't we all been directed at some early point to never do it? Now it is the right of some and not others. Re Ms Harris: I respect her sense of duty to cut short Sessions' eternal references to his inability to "recall". Certainly this signaled some to circle protectively around this poor confused fellow.
And, what about this committee of men working behind closed doors to slash our healthcare program? In a way, it prevents them from being accused of interrupting women, half the US population. This is a shocking interruption at the very least and falls to power over, clearly.
9
I hope she runs for President.
11
My husband had this problem and it took a lot of work to stop it. He's not sexist. He doesn't mean to do it. Somehow they see each other doing it and getting away with it and it just gets into their heads that this is natural.
This has to be bad for the brain. I'd like to see some neuroscience here. What is this doing to the brains of women? And what parts of the brains of men are being activated when they succumb to this evil temptation to treat their own words as being so superior that they are allowed to literally stop and delete the speech of any woman?
This has to be bad for the brain. I'd like to see some neuroscience here. What is this doing to the brains of women? And what parts of the brains of men are being activated when they succumb to this evil temptation to treat their own words as being so superior that they are allowed to literally stop and delete the speech of any woman?
7
Harris was a rude, grandstanding, smirking, mocking mess. Too bad she's even on that committee and she makes all women look bad. She was the only person in the room who felt the need to resort to a badgering, mocking style in order to feel competent questioning Sessions. And, honestly, talk about interrupting -- I was shocked by how rude she was. She lowers the bar for everyone in the public eye. Ick. And yes, I am a feminist and a lefty-progressive-socialist leaning democrat. Which is why I don't like to see them behaving badly. We expect that from other quarters; we should expect more from ourselves.
5
You'll be singing a different tune after Sessions is booted from office!
1
Brava!
3
The thesis of the article is proven by the male comments!
23
The solution? More women need to run for public office, become corporate board members, and train for jobs that are predominately male. The more women in the conversation, the less easy it will be for men to interrupt or talk over them.
6
You are correct. The other part of the solution is for men with influence and power to engage in intentional practices, in meetings, board rooms, and public hearings to address and correct this behavior by men.
7
Women don't "struggle to FEEL heard" they struggle to BE heard; the stereotypes never end, and divert the real issues. the author should know better
17
We live in a man's world. Since dawn of civilization/humanity, its been that way. Change? Iit will only happen when women decide to really, really, join forces, support, value, lean on, nurture e/o and not stab themselves in the back.
1
I'm not sure what planet the men who disagree with the premises of this article are living on. On my planet, the Earth, in 2017, I am still being cut off by men routinely, although I am a very experienced attorney.
Even more infuriating is having men appropriate, with group approval, the idea that I just put forth. And no one corrects them, including me, because, well, can you really say: "That was my idea you used without attribution minutes after I put it out there?" Sometimes I think the others in the room didn't hear me, weren't actually listening to me.
In the publishing and academic spheres, this misappropriation is called plagiarism. As we know, students are failed for it, writers lose their contracts and live in infamy.
It's appalling that in the year 2017, this still acceptable conduct towards women. And a special shout-out to the women who wrote that men talk to their husbands even when the women are clearly more knowledgeable and in charge.
Kamala Harris, please keep on keeping on. You are so bright, talented and incisive. You will do even greater things than you already have.
Even more infuriating is having men appropriate, with group approval, the idea that I just put forth. And no one corrects them, including me, because, well, can you really say: "That was my idea you used without attribution minutes after I put it out there?" Sometimes I think the others in the room didn't hear me, weren't actually listening to me.
In the publishing and academic spheres, this misappropriation is called plagiarism. As we know, students are failed for it, writers lose their contracts and live in infamy.
It's appalling that in the year 2017, this still acceptable conduct towards women. And a special shout-out to the women who wrote that men talk to their husbands even when the women are clearly more knowledgeable and in charge.
Kamala Harris, please keep on keeping on. You are so bright, talented and incisive. You will do even greater things than you already have.
27
Anyone who allows someone else to take credit for somebody else's idea has nobody but themselves to blame. But when your boss adopts your idea (if its a good one) and runs with it, well that's his job. And if a group adopts it, thats called consensus.
I think they are living on the same planet as the men of the Senate.
5
When I was teaching, I was on a committee for a special writing project that was to be accepted by the Middle States Association. I was one of two men; there were five women. The women talked among themselves and typed/keyboarded without sharing thoughts with the men. I spoke with the principal, who was a woman, and who told me the women were friends together. I had to press that if I did not receive greater access to the finished product, then I wanted a different committee. The principal spoke with the others in my presence so we could all work together. Women do it to men, too; it's whether or not positive action is taken.
1
Interesting article but in my experience, it's not just men interrupting women --- it's everyone interrupting each other. In my company, very few people actually listen in the context of a group discussion, and most interrupt (some repeatedly). I don't doubt you can find the statistics to support women being disproportionately affected, but I'd actually love to see someone test in these contexts whether or not anyone's actually paying attention to what others say!
1
I use to work on a board of officers for a community. Among ten officers I was the only women. We would have meetings, but much of our correspondence was text based through different mediums.
One evening, I was pulled aside and lectured by one of my fellow officers on ‘behalf of others’ that my tone in my emails was unnecessarily aggressive and I was ‘to insistent’ on some matters. Now, mind you, there were times when things got heated and some of the others would actually swear at one another. I pointed this out and was met with wishy washy comments about people’s perceptions. I informed him that I would make note of it, but would not disrespect us all by using kid gloves.
I adjusted my phrasing and repeated myself a touch less, trying to find a ground between this rumored perception and my own voice. It seemed to go well enough until the same person pulled me over a couple months over and explained that my tone had become patronizing. I crisply explained that I already was padding my language for their pride but I would do it no longer. “I am your fellow officer. I will speak as such. If -my- language is too aggressive but Mr. X, and Mr. Y’s was not then they need to evaluate the latent sexism in their perceptions. Not to mention the fact that I am the only woman here.”
That day on I stopped fluffing my language, I had called them out and they did get agitated. I wish I could say that it went over well and there was a night and day change, but they did lay off some.
One evening, I was pulled aside and lectured by one of my fellow officers on ‘behalf of others’ that my tone in my emails was unnecessarily aggressive and I was ‘to insistent’ on some matters. Now, mind you, there were times when things got heated and some of the others would actually swear at one another. I pointed this out and was met with wishy washy comments about people’s perceptions. I informed him that I would make note of it, but would not disrespect us all by using kid gloves.
I adjusted my phrasing and repeated myself a touch less, trying to find a ground between this rumored perception and my own voice. It seemed to go well enough until the same person pulled me over a couple months over and explained that my tone had become patronizing. I crisply explained that I already was padding my language for their pride but I would do it no longer. “I am your fellow officer. I will speak as such. If -my- language is too aggressive but Mr. X, and Mr. Y’s was not then they need to evaluate the latent sexism in their perceptions. Not to mention the fact that I am the only woman here.”
That day on I stopped fluffing my language, I had called them out and they did get agitated. I wish I could say that it went over well and there was a night and day change, but they did lay off some.
12
It isn't only in the boardroom or office that this happens. A few years ago my husband and I were driving around on a small Caribbean island in a rented car. The front of the hotel had a sharply curved drive at the front door. As my husband tried to make this turn, the car got hooked onto a rock on the driver's side.
He and some men looked over the situation and tried several ways to get the car unhooked. They tried to move it by slightly driving the car a little this way, and a little that way. This went on for awhile. I looked at the situation and said, "why don't you just move the rock." My voice seemed to induce deafness, and they just kept trying it their way. I tried it again...and again, no response. Finally, after more time had passed, I repeated it. Finally, they listened. They moved the rock, and our car was freed.
He and some men looked over the situation and tried several ways to get the car unhooked. They tried to move it by slightly driving the car a little this way, and a little that way. This went on for awhile. I looked at the situation and said, "why don't you just move the rock." My voice seemed to induce deafness, and they just kept trying it their way. I tried it again...and again, no response. Finally, after more time had passed, I repeated it. Finally, they listened. They moved the rock, and our car was freed.
12
Just thought it worth mentioning that Kamala Harris is not exactly a sterling defender of the rights of the oppressed and the vulnerable. But quite a talent for recognizing the opportune moment.
4
But then again, compared to Jeff Sessions.
12
I was in college, in the late 70s, we had a woman's discussion of "A Clockwork Orange", book or movie. Although it was a "woman's" discussion men were invited too. Most all of us had read and/or seen the movie. There were, perhaps, 3 men in the discussion. We were about 45 minutes into it when it became apparent that the men were dominating. Either by interrupting or speaking as soon as the one who had the floor finished. We woman did not interrupt nor say "hey, you've spoken already.
By the end of our hour, the last few minutes, the discussion was, why do we let the men do this? Eyes became open and I have seen it over and over for the past 49 years of my professional working life. Really, let us come out of the cave and stop it now.
By the end of our hour, the last few minutes, the discussion was, why do we let the men do this? Eyes became open and I have seen it over and over for the past 49 years of my professional working life. Really, let us come out of the cave and stop it now.
13
Everything said in this article is true. However, has there been a study comparing a meeting run a majority of women a meeting run by majority of men? I have worked in education, dominated by women, and in other areas, dominated by men. My personal, unscientific opinion is that once women get a chance to talk, they never shut up. I could be wrong. I'm just telling you what I have experienced. A meeting run by women has no end point. They want to include everyone, and everyone, often the women themselves, talk way too much. Talk about inefficiency. I guess I'll just be called sexist. If I had to pick a meeting to attend, to get out in a reasonable time, where "other" issues were not discussed, I would attend a meeting run by men. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, or simply wrong, but it is true for me.
8
My experience as a woman is that men start talking and keep talking and then raise their voices and talk faster when a woman tries to speak. I've also lost years off my life listening to men enjoy the sound of their own voices.
So, things are level, aren't they?
So, things are level, aren't they?
10
During the Senate hearing, I remember Ron Wyden questioning AG Sessions quite aggressively pushing for an answer he continued to dodge, and without a peep from anyone else on the committee. Kamala Harris was actually more measured in her pursuit, causing AG Sessions to fumble for a predictable answer -- essentially dodging her question, even as she attempted to probe deeper.
The itturuption of her time by one Senator, then with the chair cutting off her time was a dis-service to all of us.
The itturuption of her time by one Senator, then with the chair cutting off her time was a dis-service to all of us.
24
Two unrelated thoughts and a Question:
1. Research has shown that good therapists interrupt more. (Really!)
2. We need more women in the Senate. Once women are the majority, this problem may disappear. Indeed, a majority of women might be the solution to our overall political divisiveness.
Here's a question: why did men jump in to "save" or "protect" Sessions? He was hogging all the time with this tangential musings. So why was no one jumping in to protect Senator Harris' time?
1. Research has shown that good therapists interrupt more. (Really!)
2. We need more women in the Senate. Once women are the majority, this problem may disappear. Indeed, a majority of women might be the solution to our overall political divisiveness.
Here's a question: why did men jump in to "save" or "protect" Sessions? He was hogging all the time with this tangential musings. So why was no one jumping in to protect Senator Harris' time?
2
In other words, Harris kept interrupting Sessions. Men of the same party as Sessions stepped in so Sessions would be allowed to speak without constantly being interrupted. She was being rude and the men were being reasonable. Ridiculous example.
5
I don't disagree with the general point, but isn't it a bit odd to be talking about Kamala Harris being "interrupted," without recognizing that she was interrupted precisely because she herself was constantly interrupting Jeff Sesssions rather than allowing him to finish speaking?
Seems a bit mealy-mouthed to be talking out of one side of the mouth about how interruption is so awful and then at the same time ignoring that Harris was doing it too.
Seems a bit mealy-mouthed to be talking out of one side of the mouth about how interruption is so awful and then at the same time ignoring that Harris was doing it too.
8
You are completely right. This is simply an extension of the womens march against Donald Trump.
The only thing women hate more than a sexist is a sexist who feels no remorse.
The only thing women hate more than a sexist is a sexist who feels no remorse.
3
The whole "mansplaining/interrupting" thing is absolutely real. It's worth noting that the worst offenders do it to men as well (it happens to me all the time). I think a lot of it has to do with our cultural obsession with a narrative approach to reality. The content of the speech is not as important as the delivery; the Great Man is imparting his wisdom, we have to hear him out. I have seen aggressive men with no medical training lecture doctors on the docs' own field of expertise. Mix that in with unconscious privilege (or chauvinist dogma) and it's amazing we have any coherent dialogue at all.
Bad manners are always annoying...
Bad manners are always annoying...
8
I have a female friend that is on a power position and if she is given the chance, she never shuts up, not only that but she has lost her capacity to listen to others. So I will take this article as a constructive criticism and look into myself and analyze why are so many words necessary to express an idea. Balance it out and have a nice group conversation.
2
I see that women are naturally more conciliatory in a business setting and are less assertive in protecting their positions than men and do not get the respect that men get in these settings.
The number one issue is lack of respect regardless of the possibility of the woman's superior credentials.
The number one issue is lack of respect regardless of the possibility of the woman's superior credentials.
5
I think you are making a few assumptions here -- 1) "Naturally" more conciliatory? 2) Women are less assertive, and -therefore- men interrupt them more. I truly, truly doubt that, and I say that as an extremely assertive woman. But I'm sure there are studies on this too.
1
Working in Melbourne Australia in the mid-90's, I was a supervisor of a mainly male workforce. Consistently, when being visited by vendors or contractors, I would be in my office, behind my desk, with my second in charge (a man) also sitting in the office. The vendors would almost ALWAYS speak directly to the man, who would then say, "Talk to the boss" and point to me. It was funny because it was so predictable.
13
Shankar Vendantam's book "Hidden Brain" has a great piece (in a chapter called "Invisible Current") about how two Stanford professors -- each of whom transitioned mid-life/mid-career (one M to W, the other W to M) -- were both shocked by the extent to which they were interrupted/ignored/discounted when female, and respected/admired/listened-to when male.
13
UNIVERSAL? I'm not convinced that men interrupt women's speech universally. There are cultures where everyone speaks at the same time. There are many ways that language is used to communicate status. Deborah Tannen, renowned sociolinguist, in her book, You Just Don't Understand, details the difference in gender styles between women and men. While there are many opportunities for misunderstanding, it is also quite possible, as with people learning languages and dialects, that they can learn gender styles--both to understand and in speech. Also not universally.
1
The reason why Sen. Harris was "interrupted" was that SHE repeatedly prevented AG Sessions from answering questions. If I was a Republican or a Democrat, I would rebuke her, too.
11
I think that's not a fair characterization of the situation: Sen. Harris had five minutes to ask questions and Sessions was meandering in his answers, clearly letting the clock run (which he did repeated with all the senators' questions). A smart tactic on his part but clearly Sen. Harris wanted answers and was pressing him to be responsive. Had she been in court (which, granted, she wasn't), a judge would have pressed Sessions to be more responsive.
13
She had 5 minutes to get her questions asked and then answered. There wasn't enough time to allow him to ramble through his fillibustering answers. When he went off topic, she yanked him back. That's typically what good prosecutors try to do, keep the answers pertinent to the questions.
294
She tried to prevent him from interrupting her question to answer a different one more to his liking. Mr. Sessions repeatedly began talking before Ms. Harris had finished her question - and then was rebuked by Mr. McCain for "interrupting" when she tried gamely to finish her question. I was amazed at her ability to keep her cool, only to later hear her described as hysterical. Sigh.
10
Alright hold on just a minute. What we actually see here is that when a man complains that women talk too much, he gets FIRED. But when a woman complains that men talk too much, its a New York Times article.
16
I have never once known a man to be fired for complaining that a woman "talked too much". Men rarely even get fired for far more malicious misogyny. Time after time women are silenced and we're calling it out.
7
Samuel, as a corporate board member, his one role on that day was to help set a new tone and fresh start for Uber. He failed miserably; so maybe he was fired, but he was given the face-saving option to resign, which is what he did. Probably would have been better if as you say he had just been flat out fired.
2
Husbands will ignore ideas from their wives, then a couple of weeks later "come up with" the idea.
14
Another fake news ploy by the Times is to take anecdotal information and make it sound like proven fact. And of course, researched and written by a female.
13
Yeah, all that anecdotal... research.
6
Sort of a mixed message, Lisa, when attached to a photograph of the beautiful Grace Kelly?
3
This headline is misandrist. You talk about a universal experience but that, obviously, is impossible to quantify. It happens a lot and it shouldn't happen at all. But your shallow headline does not help.
5
I think misandry is an unfair characterization of either the headline or the piece as a whole. The attribution here of rudeness primarily to males arises not out of some coven of man-haters, but out of a self-indulgent wallowing in--nay, celebration of--real or imagined victimhood. Surely, some of the commenters here truly believe they are victims, while for the more astute, the pose of victimhood affords a veneer of moral superiority and thus a rhetorical advantage. The piece itself is less an exercise in menacing than a paean to victimhood, authentic or affected.
Harris jumped in every time Sessions was providing an answer.
Sessions was patient, Harris was hysterical.
Sessions was patient, Harris was hysterical.
9
Solomon, no. Sessions said he felt nervous. Kamala was calm.
2
Harris is the rude one here. Did you watch this in its entirety or are most of you just commenting on the snippet the dishonest mainstream media has fed you? Also, she is a former prosecutor and now senator and suddenly she needs protecting from mean men? Give me a break! So tired of all the victims and snowflakes.
13
Sorry Mike, but your point, as well as the tone you have adopted, is quite outrageous. You clearly missed what was happening.
4
Senator Harris: Please Proceed. And Persist.
32
When I listen to Kamala Harris, she seems pretty rude herself. I know at one point, Sessions was trying to answer her question, but she wouldn't let him.
13
Kampala Harris sounded like an attorney questioning AG Sessions. Attorneys, male and female, do that. It's obnoxious and it's often strategic.
5
So now anyone can interrupt men but nobody, including other women, can interrupt women?
Where did this rule come from?
Where did this rule come from?
oh ok. Has anyone looked into how often women interrupt men?
7
Uh, yeah. Not nearly as much. Hence "women are interrupted _more."
2
Actually there have been studies on that too. Women interrupt other women with much the same frequency as men do it, but tend to let men speak uninterrupted.
I just wish Joe Scarborough would QUIT INTERRUPTING Mika Brzezinski!
9
And Chris Matthews with his guests. I actually do want to hear his experts but he just wants to get his thoughts out...he comes off as an egotist which I regret because I've always liked him in the past.
White men with too much power?
White men with too much power?
3
It's the presence of other men that induce men to interrupt women. It's an instinctive means for men to demonstrate and enhance their status. They do it to lower status men as well. They highest status men arent usually the culprits in interrupt culture, it's the ones further down the pecking order who feel most compelled to demonstrate their strength, ironically by picking on those perceived as weaker. It's s junior high school all over again. But in that adolescent sense, it was kind of fun to see little whiney boy Sessions get beat up by a girl.
8
I can tell you what most men think, fair or not. They tend to think that women have a hard time getting to the point, that they go off on tangents and tell long stories and mix in many things that are beside the point to muddy the issue. And men find that incredibly aggravating. Heres a little advice for both men and women, not to be taken the wrong way: If you dont want to be interrupted, make a crystal clear point in a concise manner, stick to the issue, consider whether what youre saying is interesting to others or only to you, and when youve made your point, stop talking. Youll find people listening to you much more.
9
It wouldn't work. In sociology, they often make the distinction between what is causing behaviors and how people internally justify those behaviors. This is a power and gender role issue; someone may tell themselves they have other reasons for behaving that way, but the research doesn't bear that self-justification out. If every woman were suddenly communicating in a perfectly succinct manner, they would still be interrupted, and those (unconsciously) enforcing this social hierarchy would still find a justification for it.
3
@Ale
"if every woman were suddenly communicating in a perfectly succinct manner, they would still be interrupted, and those (unconsciously) enforcing this social hierarchy would still find a justification for it."
The fact that you "work in Sociology" doesn't make this ridiculous claim any less ridiculous.
"if every woman were suddenly communicating in a perfectly succinct manner, they would still be interrupted, and those (unconsciously) enforcing this social hierarchy would still find a justification for it."
The fact that you "work in Sociology" doesn't make this ridiculous claim any less ridiculous.
2
Which is hilarious when I consider the time wasted in work meetings while the men wander off topic for long, tedious minutes to tell their personal stories of triumph or of days gone by. While I wait for them to get back to the point so we can get back to work, which is presumably why we're there.
Hilarious. Anyone purporting men's discourse is always more to the point than women's is ... well, a man.
Hilarious. Anyone purporting men's discourse is always more to the point than women's is ... well, a man.
7
What? No mention of the psycho-linguist Deborah Tannen's work? She writes about gender and communication---studies actual conversations real people have in real time---and she's been writing about interruption especially for a long time. This is not new and I am sure the nonsense notion that women talk more than men (context must be accounted for when people speak to each other) has gotten so much worse now that the feminists have one. It is, frankly, aggravating that when something happens to elected officials or "important" people in some industry that something suddenly becomes problematic and the media cover it. People are shot ALL THE TIME in the US but now that a member of congress has been shot, massing shootings are looked into. Same thing with rudeness and speaking. Women are ALWAYS interrupted by men, men speak in public WAY MORE than women do, and, yet, the notion that women talk too much persists. Look at Tannen's work (Conversational Style from way back in 1984 is a good start), and, unfortunately, you will see this mythological idea that women talk too much is not new.
9
It's because "important" conversation is defined, by men, as the stuff men want to talk about, talked about in the way they want to talk about it. By that definition, anything a woman says is either unimportant (therefore she's talking too much) or aggressive and unfriendly (if she adopts male speech patterns).
8
I have a (male) colleague who constantly interrupts us, but says right after "Oh, sorry, did I interrupt you?", then continues right along with his monologue. And he has asked me if I think he interrupts women too much. I've said, "Well, yes, but it seems like you're aware of it. You do acknowledge it in situ." He said "Oh, ok, so I'm good." And I carefully pointed out that sometimes he just goes on with the interruption,but he seemed to be confused: at least he acknowledged it -- what else was he supposed to do?
3
I for one am sick and tired of seeing men like Jeff Sessions coddled like some errant child. Ms. Harris was doing her job and has enough experience as a prosecutor to do it very well. Shame on McCain, he is no better than McConnell who did the same disgraceful and disrespectful thing to Elizabeth Warren on the senate floor. Very much looking forward to the days when these old white geezers go the way of the dinosaurs. Persist!!
26
Senator Harris, sensitive to the severe time restraints on her questioning period, repeatedly interrupted the witness, whose rambling, meandering "answers" were filibustering away her five minutes. She was trying to keep the ball rolling, and understandably was impatient with Sessions' manner of response. Even so, she was far more guilty of "interrupting" her witness than her fellow committee members were of interrupting her questioning.
7
The ex-husband used to interrupt me and/or overtake the conversation, oftentimes in front of others. When I pointed it out he usually pushed back and found a way to blame me for his behavior. No matter what I said to explain what he did, he found a way to blame me; I was willfully not heard. It's a form of gaslighting.
And it's one of many reasons he's the ex!
And it's one of many reasons he's the ex!
8
Men are bad, but just remember as Camille Paglia said,
"If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts."
"If civilization had been left in female hands we would still be living in grass huts."
7
....meaning nothing more than Camille Paglia was a misogynist.
I've seen from 35 years experience in business the contributions of women to 'civilization' get erased or appropriated time and again. Credit is given to those who take it.
I've seen from 35 years experience in business the contributions of women to 'civilization' get erased or appropriated time and again. Credit is given to those who take it.
7
Nah, it just means you are a narrative pusher. Carry on.
A typically baseless statement from Paglia. She's a provocateur who has made a career out of misogyny.
3
At age 28 as a senior business executive, a friend gave me a one panel comic. It was a sketch of a balding middle-aged male CEO at the head of a boardroom table, finger pointed in the air, and the rest of the executive team (including one woman) seated before him. The caption: "That's an excellent point, Ms Phipps. Perhaps one of the men here would like to make it." That was in 1993 so .... plus ca change, plus ca meme!
17
This was in fact a cartoon that appeared in Punch in 1988 (it is Miss Triggs and she is making an excellent suggestion):
http://punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eHEXGJ_wImQ
Too dispiriting really - 30 years ago! (And still funny.)
http://punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eHEXGJ_wImQ
Too dispiriting really - 30 years ago! (And still funny.)
5
Thank you. Memory still have decent, but not perfect!
1
This has been going on for so long and NOW it's finally spoken about??I can't count the # of times I've said"excuse me,I'm speaking".I loathe the dismissive,condescending tone men have used against women for as long as I
can remember.In the 70's,when women were just reentering the workplace, I worked for a woman that only employed women and the business thrived,we all got along famously…and it was in the garment industry,a notoriously tough trade.Misogyny is more obvious now as Trump has fanned the fires.Not a woman in sight for ACA talks,women's health care being decimated.Face it,men are afraid of women because they are smarter,can compromise and have the all important emotional intelligence so sorely lacking in men.We've had to work so much harder ergo we are so much better.
can remember.In the 70's,when women were just reentering the workplace, I worked for a woman that only employed women and the business thrived,we all got along famously…and it was in the garment industry,a notoriously tough trade.Misogyny is more obvious now as Trump has fanned the fires.Not a woman in sight for ACA talks,women's health care being decimated.Face it,men are afraid of women because they are smarter,can compromise and have the all important emotional intelligence so sorely lacking in men.We've had to work so much harder ergo we are so much better.
5
This is hardly a new topic among those who discuss or study gender/culture.
Eventually the mainstream goes "Oh - yeah. Look. Sexism."
Eventually the mainstream goes "Oh - yeah. Look. Sexism."
2
Ditto for men and women of color: Often interrupted, ignored, or "misunderstood....." As a college dean, I often had to point this out to colleagues, who then suggested I was "defensive." Simply put, white males need to make room, shut up and listen more. God gave us two ears and one mouth because she wanted us to listen twice as much as she wanted us to talk!
6
It's the testosterone. Men are more aggressive and they are used to being in power positions. Elect more women to Congress. 20% is ridiculously low.
3
I once had a strange experience in a meeting with two men--a professional colleague and our client. The client didn't interrupt me; he pretended I wasn't there. He directed all questions to my male co-worker, who often would point out that I should answer, since the question related to my area of expertise. I would then answer the question. If the client had a follow-up question or comment, he would address it to my male colleague. It was as if I wasn't even in the room. The invisible human.
We later found out that this older man didn't think women should work outside the home. When a woman was hired for a key position in his department by the Board of Trustees of the nonprofit he worked for, he froze her out and drove her away. She was one of the smartest people I've ever dealt with. Her replacement, although a very nice man, was an idiot.
Anyone who says America is a meritocracy is lying through his teeth.
We later found out that this older man didn't think women should work outside the home. When a woman was hired for a key position in his department by the Board of Trustees of the nonprofit he worked for, he froze her out and drove her away. She was one of the smartest people I've ever dealt with. Her replacement, although a very nice man, was an idiot.
Anyone who says America is a meritocracy is lying through his teeth.
22
I watched Sen Kamala Harris question AG Sessions. Sen Harris was extremely rude.
Once again, when a Democrat woman is criticized, it's Victim Time!!!!
Sorry, Sen Harris. You are NOT a victim. You're a rude person with a personal ax to grind.
Man or Woman, if you badgered AG Sessions in the way Sen Harris did that day, you deserved to be told to shut up. Knock off the Victim garbage.
Once again, when a Democrat woman is criticized, it's Victim Time!!!!
Sorry, Sen Harris. You are NOT a victim. You're a rude person with a personal ax to grind.
Man or Woman, if you badgered AG Sessions in the way Sen Harris did that day, you deserved to be told to shut up. Knock off the Victim garbage.
6
Thank you, Susan Chira, for addressing this universal topic. (WNYC) Laura R. Walker's quote, "To be in a situation where you’re trying to do your job and you’re either cut off or ignored,” came to its peak for this court reporter recently at a legal proceeding where I was, just that, trying to do my job.
There are thankfully more women attorneys gathered around conference tables at arbitrations and depositions than there were 35 years ago; yet, I still witness women attorneys being cut off by many of their male counterparts.
As for court reporters, we are officers of the court, obliged to keep a verbatim record of sworn testimony. Indeed, the reason we still survive in this field is because of the necessity, and duty, to occasionally speak up when two, three, four (or more) people are speaking at the same time. The capability to create a coherent, accurate, immediate legal transcript would be impossible for even state-of-the art voice recognition, and only a live, computer-aided court reporter with a tongue can provide that.
Thankfully, the respected judges and attorneys I have worked with understand this; yet, I am ignored, more often than I would like to say, by many others.
So if you are making a list of women who continue to experience the phenomenon, please add this court reporter to the list of fellow women who live in our often/still, sorry to say, "man's world." #SpeakUp
There are thankfully more women attorneys gathered around conference tables at arbitrations and depositions than there were 35 years ago; yet, I still witness women attorneys being cut off by many of their male counterparts.
As for court reporters, we are officers of the court, obliged to keep a verbatim record of sworn testimony. Indeed, the reason we still survive in this field is because of the necessity, and duty, to occasionally speak up when two, three, four (or more) people are speaking at the same time. The capability to create a coherent, accurate, immediate legal transcript would be impossible for even state-of-the art voice recognition, and only a live, computer-aided court reporter with a tongue can provide that.
Thankfully, the respected judges and attorneys I have worked with understand this; yet, I am ignored, more often than I would like to say, by many others.
So if you are making a list of women who continue to experience the phenomenon, please add this court reporter to the list of fellow women who live in our often/still, sorry to say, "man's world." #SpeakUp
2
The only reason that this happens is because there are more men than women in corporate boardrooms and in government. If you want to find the reasons for that, look at the college degree choices that most women make.
If you imagine that in a boardroom full of only men, or only women for that matter, that everyone just takes their turn and no one ever interrupts each other, then I imagine you have a very naive outlook on what corporate America is like. Plenty of things cause a person to shut down another person’s opinion, including age and experience.
Also in the case of Kamala Harris she was essentially badgering the witness, which is why she was shut down. It’s not sexism when the person is clearly out of line.
If you imagine that in a boardroom full of only men, or only women for that matter, that everyone just takes their turn and no one ever interrupts each other, then I imagine you have a very naive outlook on what corporate America is like. Plenty of things cause a person to shut down another person’s opinion, including age and experience.
Also in the case of Kamala Harris she was essentially badgering the witness, which is why she was shut down. It’s not sexism when the person is clearly out of line.
4
I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion that Ms. Harris was "out of line". I would say she was exactly aligned with herself, her intelligence, and her quest for the truth which Mr. Sessions appeared uncomfortably unable to disclose.
13
I think you might need to go back and reread the article. No one said men don't interrupt men. Studies have shown men cut off women far more often than they cut off each other, or than women cut off women, particularly in professional environments. Basically, by ignoring what she wrote, you proved the point: if men don't want to hear what women want to say, they interrupt, reinterpret, or ignore. Because it's not important. It's just women talking.
10
I used to write press releases and pretend that they were written by our Director of Communications. The director and I agreed to not let people know I wrote them. If it was known I wrote them, they would bounce back within hours with complaints about my poor writing skills.
In a previous job where I had an idea that would help recuperate thousands of dollars for our corporate clients was also dismissed. That idea resurfaced and earned VP position for another guy. It was my idea. I could go on...
I am a woman of African descent and very proud and happy to see these issues debated front and centre.
In a previous job where I had an idea that would help recuperate thousands of dollars for our corporate clients was also dismissed. That idea resurfaced and earned VP position for another guy. It was my idea. I could go on...
I am a woman of African descent and very proud and happy to see these issues debated front and centre.
14
It would be interesting to study the situations and processes in which women interrupt more than men. It happens in households. It happens in some committee meetings in universities. It happens in some non-profit groups. At least, I have witnessed it in some of these cases. Wonder what makes the difference.
5
Ironic that a well prepared Senator Harris who was a respected, well prepared Assistant District Attorney and then a well prepared California Attorney General was dissed by Republican males on the committee when they should have been asking Attorney General Sessions why he wasn't better prepared.
Anyone who have ever done jury witness prepping knows that part of the prepping is having a flurry of questions asked of you, so that you are mentally prepared to answer in a crisp, clear, precise manner without getting flustered.
Did Attorney General Sessions NOT do any preparations? If not then he is a stupid man.
When Attorney General Sessions complained that he needed things to slow down, because it was confusing him, my first thought was how in gods name did he ever become the Attorney General of the United States???
Anyone who have ever done jury witness prepping knows that part of the prepping is having a flurry of questions asked of you, so that you are mentally prepared to answer in a crisp, clear, precise manner without getting flustered.
Did Attorney General Sessions NOT do any preparations? If not then he is a stupid man.
When Attorney General Sessions complained that he needed things to slow down, because it was confusing him, my first thought was how in gods name did he ever become the Attorney General of the United States???
29
When Attorney General Sessions complained that he needed things to slow down, because it was confusing him, he was dog-whistling.
3
I am a fourth grade teacher. I noticed that almost every time my girls stood up to present a project or share thoughts with the class they began by qualifying or apologizing for their work or ideas. I do not exaggerate when I say the boys never did this. How scary that kids learn these messages so young.
Jason Miller should hang his head in shame...I sincerely hope he doesn't have daughters.
Jason Miller should hang his head in shame...I sincerely hope he doesn't have daughters.
22
You have to be kidding!! in my experience, the principal 'but-in-skis' have mostly been women, especially interrupting other women. And as I am a slow speaker, I have found it is mostly women who finish my sentences. This sounds like more of the long running diatribe of how hard it is for me to get ahead in business because I am a girl. I have known several very successful women who just plowed ahead and all this glass ceiling nonsense was ignored. The heat/kitchen rule applies here, i think.
1
Happens all the time -- liberals and conservatives alike do it. Chris Matthews especially does it all the time. Drives me nuts.
4
This happens every day on Morning Joe and Hardball (I'm blissfully ignorant of what happens on Foxy News).
Joe and Chris are serial mansplainers to the point where I wonder why they have women guests on their show at all (except, understandably, for Mika who is Joe's fiancé).
Joe and Chris are serial mansplainers to the point where I wonder why they have women guests on their show at all (except, understandably, for Mika who is Joe's fiancé).
4
Maybe women just talk too slow. Men have already moved on to the next thought. Step it up.
3
Did you work at Uber? I have been in numerous meetings where some men drone on and on... It's not just a woman thing. In any meeting, more people, men and women, should be mindful of the audience, time limitations and short attention spans. A person getting to the point within a short time frame works best for everyone irrespective of the messenger's gender. Then move on! But, first, have the decency to listen, communicate information and/or discuss ideas. That's the point of meetings and demonstrates workplace respect.
4
What an odiously stupid remark Michael! Maybe women think things through and make less dumb mistakes.
4
I work in oil & gas, a field heavily dominated by men. It is a give and take approach for sure. I make it known when I am interrupted. I get respect because I am clear and correct. There are still plenty of lowlife who like to twist a perfectly reasonable statement into something innapropriate. Word choice is important.
6
Sessions made the mistake of taking Harris seriously. From here, i.e., Southern California, she looked like a sideshow circus clown from Northern California trying to one-up Feinstein--impossible, too cool in situations like that. Nothing new, though, from that part of the Bay Area.
4
Chira proves the point (once again) that if feminists didn't have double standards, they would not have any standards at all.
If she deplores stereotyping, then she should stop stereotyping others.
I watched AG Sessions' testimony, and yes the mood got testy, but nothing that happened was quite as disgraceful as Sen. Kamala Harris's refusal to let Sessions answer her questions. As Sessions plaintively pointed out: “Will you let me qualify [what I just said]. If I don’t qualify it, you’ll accuse me of lying. So I need to be as correct as best I can—”
I know Harris is a newbie. And she seemed to be in a hurry to get through all her questions in the allotted time. But someone needs to "mansplain" to her that the point of questions is to elicit answers. You'd have thought she would have learned the first time around, but people like Chira have taught her that women are entitled to behave loutishly.
If she deplores stereotyping, then she should stop stereotyping others.
I watched AG Sessions' testimony, and yes the mood got testy, but nothing that happened was quite as disgraceful as Sen. Kamala Harris's refusal to let Sessions answer her questions. As Sessions plaintively pointed out: “Will you let me qualify [what I just said]. If I don’t qualify it, you’ll accuse me of lying. So I need to be as correct as best I can—”
I know Harris is a newbie. And she seemed to be in a hurry to get through all her questions in the allotted time. But someone needs to "mansplain" to her that the point of questions is to elicit answers. You'd have thought she would have learned the first time around, but people like Chira have taught her that women are entitled to behave loutishly.
10
The criminal behavior of Sessions was made clear by the technique of Senator Harris. Someone had to do it if we're ever going to uncover the truth, to which Sessions has no intention of being affiliated.
3
Sen. Kamala Harris is representative of upcoming women in politics, business and the arts who are as capable as they are self assured, not intimidated by the usual male resistance to power they can't own. As Vicky of So. Carolina said to men, "If you're an interrupter, you're boring." Women are just moving on...
7
It starts with our fathers when we are young girls. Old school fathers tell us to be seen but not heard. Young girls are taught this and the experience continues through our school years by teachers and other adults.
Boys have a different experience they are expected to be boisterous and loud.
But this is a new century and women are supposed to, entitled to, demand to be heard. Sessions was clearly out of line. His backward thinking along with the rest of the GOP and Trump's cabinet place women back in the kitchen, bare foot and pregnant.
Shame on him and the rest of these neanderthals.
And all women we need not to be censored we need to be heard. So reminded all men that you were talking, that you were speaking and that they need to listen and learn. All mothers and fathers need to teach this to their children especially their daughters.
Boys have a different experience they are expected to be boisterous and loud.
But this is a new century and women are supposed to, entitled to, demand to be heard. Sessions was clearly out of line. His backward thinking along with the rest of the GOP and Trump's cabinet place women back in the kitchen, bare foot and pregnant.
Shame on him and the rest of these neanderthals.
And all women we need not to be censored we need to be heard. So reminded all men that you were talking, that you were speaking and that they need to listen and learn. All mothers and fathers need to teach this to their children especially their daughters.
1
I would argue that not all women need to be heard, any more than all men need to be heard. Some people, irrespective of gender, have nothing of worth to say.
There's no reason to hold men to a different standard in this regard.
There's no reason to hold men to a different standard in this regard.
Senator Harris was intentionally rude, offensive, and badgering. When Sen Sessions tried to give an answer, she rammed another question before he could give a clearly complete answer. She never even listened to what he had to say, as she was too busy carrying out her planned attack. Her incessant badgering and disrespect should be the focus of this article...but that is not the agenda you want to push.
I saw the same tactic in Dr. Tom Prices's hearing, with rude interruptions by woman Elizabeth Warren. When Dr. Price had uttered 4 or 5 words, she interrupted his sentence with another question/allegation.
I saw the same tactic in Dr. Tom Prices's hearing, with rude interruptions by woman Elizabeth Warren. When Dr. Price had uttered 4 or 5 words, she interrupted his sentence with another question/allegation.
4
That's how cross-examination works though. Extended responses are for direct examination, the point of cross-examination is to get yes/no answers that build your case.
3
Massa Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III, Massa John Sidney McCain, III and Massa Richard Mauze Burr could not tolerate a comely brown Indian Jamaican experienced tough wise former professional prosecutor woman like Senator Kamala Devi Harris D. CA. asking tough focused questions of the aged confused Sessions.
Sessions got flustered and seemed on the verge of fainting with an attack of the 'vapors.' until two 'gentlemen' McCain and Burr came to Sessions delicate damsel -in dress rescue.
Sessions got flustered and seemed on the verge of fainting with an attack of the 'vapors.' until two 'gentlemen' McCain and Burr came to Sessions delicate damsel -in dress rescue.
19
Cool!
A Canadian friend recently told me that she found one of the least engaging qualities of Americans--both men and women-- is that "They interrupt."
4
Solution:
Run the company or own the company and fire the ones, who interrupt you.
If he interrupts you, don't sleep with him.
If he interrupts you, divorce him.
Run the company or own the company and fire the ones, who interrupt you.
If he interrupts you, don't sleep with him.
If he interrupts you, divorce him.
4
Actually, Kamala got her start in politics by being the girlfriend of the mayor of SF.
Or she was dating the Mayor of SF because she'd already gotten her start in politics and that's how they met.
3
It's the main reason why committees fail. It's not the best mind people hear, but the biggest mouth.
11
As the only woman in an all-male department, every time I opened my mouth at a meeting, I was greeted with eyerolls and snickers. This was at a major corporation forty years ago, but it looks like nothing has changed.
4
Come the eye rolling because you are you or you are a woman.
Did you never experienced that the men who do it to you they do it also to other men?
If not you should be more participate what happens to other people
Did you never experienced that the men who do it to you they do it also to other men?
If not you should be more participate what happens to other people
1
Great article. I see this happen often, including on Morning Joe when Mika is saying something interesting and he cuts her off and then just repeats something he's said many times. I have had it happen to me but have also had men listen to me in meetings. I think the next generation of men is better overall. The senators who interrupted Harris were Republicans trying to protect Sessions. Senator McCain was so obtuse in the Comey hearing I put the mute button on - so women can at least mute men if not interrupt them! I also thought when reading it that Harris is black and a newbie. They do not seem to cut off Dianne Feinstein who is well liked and respected. A minority always seems to make white males nervous and they can treat a newbie like an "upstart." I think what the board member said about Arianna Huffington is even more revealing. To men, women "talk too much," and they just tune us out unless I guess it has to do with sex. Yet I have often been interrupted by women who are threatened by me. Men have this hierarchy and women get points for having influential families. I think women have to say something like, "You're interrupting a woman?" and be nonplussed and strong. Ask why. We should use our wit and intelligence to put men in their place. Their opinions are not more valuable. I didn't hear Harris but I hope she pointed out that the men were trying to protect their former colleague, a Republican, while the American people want to know the truth.
1
I'm so glad that light has finally been shed on a subject that women knew nothing about.
I recall once in college, as an engineering student, being in a study group where I was the only female. I tried to explain something to the group and was cutoff/dismissed. I stood up and left, over the men's protests of "wait, we're just joking!" I got an A in that class.
When my husband interrupts me at home, I immediately interrupt him and say "well, if you don't know what I was GOING to say, I won't tell you." He normally begs me to finish what I was saying, but I refuse. And it drives him crazy. I think I will find a (slightly) more tactful way to do this in my professional life as an attorney.
I recall once in college, as an engineering student, being in a study group where I was the only female. I tried to explain something to the group and was cutoff/dismissed. I stood up and left, over the men's protests of "wait, we're just joking!" I got an A in that class.
When my husband interrupts me at home, I immediately interrupt him and say "well, if you don't know what I was GOING to say, I won't tell you." He normally begs me to finish what I was saying, but I refuse. And it drives him crazy. I think I will find a (slightly) more tactful way to do this in my professional life as an attorney.
8
Having worked on the legal unit as an Asst Investigator at the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, though not directly en pointe, it was very gratifying when able to substantiate alleged violations of the Equal Pay Act.
This alone, not only empowers and gives voice to the individual but, interrupts the mindset that there in only one train of thought to consider.
This alone, not only empowers and gives voice to the individual but, interrupts the mindset that there in only one train of thought to consider.
2
Men interrupt women constantly in meetings and public settings, even in a supposedly progressive setting like the university where I work. What's insidious about these interruptions is that it's hard to tell whether they're a part of day-to-day life or an illustration of sexism at work. It bothers me that I feel I need to spend time to figure it out.
6
It doesn't just happen in business. It happens in marriage, too :(
22
I'm a man. I work in a female-dominated industry. In meetings, I sometimes find it hard to get a word in. In my experience, businesswomen do a lot of "ummmmm" as a placeholder while they think of their next sentence. Typically, women interrupt each other at this point, and I wait and wait. By being considerate, I make it hard for myself to share in the conversation.
Maybe this placeholder behavior is an effort to overcome interruption. I sympathize. We all wish people would wait while we get our whole thought out Not everyone, including women, is so patient. Discourteous or not, I don't count as a sexist act interrupting a woman when she's put a conversation on hold and we all have to wait while she thinks of something else to say.
Maybe this placeholder behavior is an effort to overcome interruption. I sympathize. We all wish people would wait while we get our whole thought out Not everyone, including women, is so patient. Discourteous or not, I don't count as a sexist act interrupting a woman when she's put a conversation on hold and we all have to wait while she thinks of something else to say.
4
I suggest you follow the lead of the women around you and interrupt the mmms. I often have to do something similar with men who speak slowly and with excessive deliberation as a means of holding the floor.
4
Trial lawyers (and Ms. Harris is one of the best) know that the information jurors are most interested in is the information that's kept from them. So even though (probably because) they were so rude, Ms. Harris won this battle.
Thus we're all left wondering, appropriately, where this written policy is, and if it exists, why Sessions hasn't released it. And we're left wondering why Sessions strained so hard to avoid answering questions.
That should be a lesson to those that would take on greater intellects--and to those who might assume that women or minorities are not their intellectual equals.
Thus we're all left wondering, appropriately, where this written policy is, and if it exists, why Sessions hasn't released it. And we're left wondering why Sessions strained so hard to avoid answering questions.
That should be a lesson to those that would take on greater intellects--and to those who might assume that women or minorities are not their intellectual equals.
24
Women in this country continue to be treated as second-class citizens by a large chunk of the population. Some treat us even worse.
Add to the problem of interrupting women, the additional problem that women are typically promoted for their achievements, while men are typically promoted for their potential.
Add to the problem of interrupting women, the additional problem that women are typically promoted for their achievements, while men are typically promoted for their potential.
14
How dare men to interrupt women, men just shut up and let only women talk.
Are women really that weak not to speak up?
Do really so many people women are so incapable?
It's 2017, women can handle to be interrupted.
Are women really that weak not to speak up?
Do really so many people women are so incapable?
It's 2017, women can handle to be interrupted.
1
This article ought to be required reading for every elementary school boy, then repeated in middle and high school, college and grad school. Maybe eventually we would get the message.
6
They'd all just deny it happens. Or dismiss it as unimportant because it's just girl talk.
Sexism starts early.
Sexism starts early.
1
It's disheartening to read all the naysayer comments related to this article, as though women have achieved so much - although to this day they still don't get equal pay!
4
Ah. Now THIS is the old gray lady at her best. This is absolutely an issue - although in my experience it is NOT gender related. I for get talked over, and have learned the hard way to listen, "count to ten", and then reply. But I am a big believer that men are insensitive. All that said, did the editors of the New York Times, and the comments, not see the hypocrisy here? Mr. McCain asked Senator Harris to allow Mr. Sessions to answer the question. That is, SHE was talking over HIM, not allowing him to respond. Also, Senator Burr as Chair said she was over the limit. The chair does that because it is his job to do that to allow other Senators to ask questions - she was being rude and insensitive to her fellow senators by going over the limit. The chair does this and did this with both male and female colleagues. To use this as example is not only bad journalism, it does an injustice to a very real problem, because the example counters the argument that it is a problem.
10
See the Washington Post article on these incidents, which makes it clear that what Harris was doing is routine in the senate and that and that only female senators are punished for it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/06/14/as-a-prose...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/06/14/as-a-prose...
6
I believe you completely misunderstood what transpired.
2
Ah, yes, the old "suggestion being shot down, only to appear a week later as the boss's 'brilliant idea'" syndrome. That was what happened to me in the last job I had before I retired. I had a 40-plus year career in public relations and marketing. When that started to happen more and more often, I just started to do passive-aggressive stuff like being silent in meetings. Then they criticized me in job evaluations for not contributing. That was just because they couldn't come up with any more original ideas to steal. I knew I was a "short-timer." I spent years speaking out, only to be overlooked for promotions and the "opportunity" to train men who were much younger than I am. Plus, because I'm not the most physically attractive woman on the block, I paid for that as well. Now that I'm retired, I'm more active than ever. And guess what? People want to hire me for more projects than I can handle. I'm the "consultant" now, the editor people want to work with for their books and PR efforts. Now I'm probably too expensive for them. Works for me.
23
Conspicuously, Republicans have sought to undermine years in advance those individuals they perceive as potential Democratic Presidential candidates. For potential women contenders, the Republican tactic is to portray the Democrat as wordy, foolish, and negligent. Such methods were obvious in Republican attacks on Hillary Rodham Clinton, attacks first initiated during her years in Arkansas. Now, the next generation of Democratic women politicians are facing the ugliness of Republican innuendo. I think we are observing Republican STRATEGY at work in the mistreatment of a Democratic Senator.
22
Absolutely.
1
Senator McCain behaved abominably. He should apologize. As a female constituent of his, I expect better behavior. Courtesy should be extended equally to everyone. Sen Harris was questioning the witness, and as the questioner, she had the right to cut off an irrelevant, rambling answer. No other Senator had the right to interrupt her.
Unfortunately, Senator McCain's behavior is not atypical. Men are socialized to discount women in professional situations. As mothers, sisters, aunts, and teachers, we need to rethink how we socialize boys, and try to curb aggressive behavior and reward courtesy. I worked for many years in technology, and the way I was treated in some situations was abominable. As noted in the article and some comments, often my ideas, when expressed in meetings, were stolen (let’s call it what it is).
Unfortunately, Senator McCain's behavior is not atypical. Men are socialized to discount women in professional situations. As mothers, sisters, aunts, and teachers, we need to rethink how we socialize boys, and try to curb aggressive behavior and reward courtesy. I worked for many years in technology, and the way I was treated in some situations was abominable. As noted in the article and some comments, often my ideas, when expressed in meetings, were stolen (let’s call it what it is).
18
I hope you've called Senator McCain's office. He needs to hear from his constituents.
3
"A few statistics show that..."
...the vast majority of criminal convicts, homeless, drug traffickers, terrorists, spies and totalitarian rulers are male. Therefore, men are all...
The basis of your conclusion are faulty. Did you know that mathematicians and statisticians are largely...
...the vast majority of criminal convicts, homeless, drug traffickers, terrorists, spies and totalitarian rulers are male. Therefore, men are all...
The basis of your conclusion are faulty. Did you know that mathematicians and statisticians are largely...
7
I work in a field dominated inordinately by males. I can attest that the boorish and bullying behavior of males toward females, as described in the article, happens to "non-alpha" males and other male subordinates. For years I was annoyed when I witnessed such interruptions, down-talking, and the like. Now, however, I'm amused when I see and hear verbose and bellicose bullies act no better than petulant children. I'm amazed, as well: I cannot fathom why these boors, with power and authority, feel so insecure as to subject others to such mistreatment. If they wish to prove they are worthy of respect then they are their own worst enemies. The leaders who treat others as they, themselves, wish to be treated are truly the leaders people wish to emulate -- and love to follow into battle.
4
The silver lining for Senator Harris' unfair treatment is it significantly raised her national profile. She will no doubt be part of the conversation about Presidential hopefuls for 2020.
17
Although I'm not sure that a far-left Senator from far-left California who played the identity politics game, including divide and conquer vs. Loretta Sanchez, is the best strategy for winning back the Mid-West "firewall" states.
1
Ms. Gillis' remarks remind me of something my father used to tell me when I was a teenager: "the girl who thinks she's right is often left." You can be competent or loved. Not both. Every time I think that reflects a different era, an article like this appears to remind me that these biases are still here.
10
I think interruption in general is an American affliction.
10
In my experience it's usually the opposite. Women interrupting men. But I'm fine as they usually have interesting things to say.
I only find annoying those that interrupt conversations rudely, using insults and such.
I only find annoying those that interrupt conversations rudely, using insults and such.
4
Women in America are second class citizens, unfortunately.
This never seems to be an issue for Gloria Allred, a woman I greatly admire.
1
Women have good ideas and questions. Bottom line, men don't like a women who has either of both and if they articulate, they will be cut off and some male will "steal" her ideas. I have this happen far too often in my life of work. Men do not like women to be smart, particularly smarter than they are....
2
Yes, just paint over 1/2 the population with a broad stereotype. Classy.
2
Men interrupting women!!! Are you serious??? Have you ever been in a room with a group of women? They interrupt each other repeatedly--no one wants to hear any idea unless it mirrors her own. And I'm a woman writing this.
10
Of course, it goes both ways. I think its fair to say that sexist stereotypes are generally untrue. Its disturbing to seem them being propogated by the Times.
Having worked in a 99.9% male environment (as a civilian in a military environment) I had to advocate forcefully at meetings if the person running the meeting didn't do a good job - which was often. I spoke up as necessary but when I was interrupted I was quick to say that "I am not finished talking" that usually shut up even the most boorish. Taking your turn and waiting were not rules followed in my workplace; I think my colleagues just played rough scrabble as "the boys" until I asserted myself. To be fair they would interrupt their male colleagues as well but it was easier to do it to some women because they would just take it. The culture has a lot to do with as well as setting ground rules - unfortunately my manager was a milquetoast so he would run meetings in name only.
4
Is it possible that the pitch of some women's voices when they speak loudly triggers a subconscious reaction of avoidance? There have been times when children or women talking loudly have caused me to leave a room. Or is there some evolutionary reaction where in stressful or confrontational situations the lower pitch of a man's voice is sought out or preferred? We are all animals, after all. And for the record I am a proponent of equality and objective individual merit anywhere, including the workplace. But sometimes perhaps the female voice pitched high at volume is not a pleasure to hear? Not the content, just the sound of it. The Adeles amongst us are celebrated for a reason.
4
I do not mean this disrespectfully, but I honestly think the problem there is with you.
5
You might be on to something. I find that listening to the high pitched whining of most male Republican Senators is incredibly annoying.
6
I have trouble listening to Jeff Sessions' make voice.
3
In regard to how often men and women interrupt each other in unequal groups:
Let's say a corporate board consists of 1 woman and 9 men. And let's assume they interrupt each other equally, regardless of gender, at a rate of one interruption per minute.
The male members of this board, as a group, would be interrupted by the sole female member about once every 10 minutes. And each male member would be interrupted by the woman only about 10% of the time they experience an interruption.
On the other hand, the woman would also be interrupted about once every 10 minutes. But, 100% of the time, she would be interrupted by men (assuming she can't interrupt herself).
(The percentages are approximate.) It still sounds like discrimination, because it seems she's being interrupted 10 times more often by men than the men are by her. However, due to the make-up of the board, this is roughly what one would expect.
In real life, there may or may not be some truth to the assertions of the article about women being interrupted disproportionately more. But if women are interrupted out-of-proportion to their male counterparts, we need to know what the expected rate of interruptions is when the group isn't divided 50:50 male to female.
Let's say a corporate board consists of 1 woman and 9 men. And let's assume they interrupt each other equally, regardless of gender, at a rate of one interruption per minute.
The male members of this board, as a group, would be interrupted by the sole female member about once every 10 minutes. And each male member would be interrupted by the woman only about 10% of the time they experience an interruption.
On the other hand, the woman would also be interrupted about once every 10 minutes. But, 100% of the time, she would be interrupted by men (assuming she can't interrupt herself).
(The percentages are approximate.) It still sounds like discrimination, because it seems she's being interrupted 10 times more often by men than the men are by her. However, due to the make-up of the board, this is roughly what one would expect.
In real life, there may or may not be some truth to the assertions of the article about women being interrupted disproportionately more. But if women are interrupted out-of-proportion to their male counterparts, we need to know what the expected rate of interruptions is when the group isn't divided 50:50 male to female.
6
Cute reasoning but it does contribute to address the real issue. Why are you not asking instead why there is one women and 9 men in the Board room?
13
david's reasoning seems intended to show that the fundamental issue isn't interruptions, it's the fact that so many workplaces (not to mention the U.S. Senate) have such a skewed gender ration. that's an important point.
3
Dismissive reply, Valeria. There was an inference in the article about boards having fewer women. However, the title, subject, and theme of the article were about how often women are interrupted, and that is what my point was about.
1
I'm a woman in a male-dominated industry. After 30 years and many years at one company, I'm finally getting interrupted less frequently. I think my credibility is such that they know interrupting me will make them look bad. However, there are still guys that will repeat what I've just said (only a minute ago) and attribute the idea to themselves. This even happens when I'm chairing the meeting! Perhaps it is unconscious.
8
No doubt about it in my experience. I can tell when a man has just given me what I call "the velvet gloved brush off", the polite sweeping aside of my comment by someone who automatically turns off his listening or attention because he is in the habit of thinking his ideas are superior, so much so that the move appears to be an unconscious habit that comes to the surface at the point that he sees I am female. But I have developed the habit of responding politely, "Excuse me, but I want to finish what I was saying." I like to keep it oh so polite, but firm. I bump into these mini glass ceilings often.
5
I spent most of my career being dubbed "difficult." It would come up in virtually all of my performance reviews. And I never understood it. I was a fairly passive person. At some point I realized that as the 7th of 8 children, I had learned to state my need/opinion quickly and pointedly with no build up or apology. I eventually learned to put some soft words in front to try to appear less direct, and the "difficult" description magically disappeared. But now I cringe in meetings when so many female colleagues preface their expert interjections with minimizing words like, in my opinion. No, it's not your opinion, it's your experience and knowledge speaking...
20
So, she was interrupted TWO times IN A WEEK! Gasp. The horror. Get a grip. Good grief.
Politics continues to be a "man's world". We need more women in office. But I also think there may be something else at work. While there can be little doubt that the Senate hearings are a case of sexist double standards, is it necessarily so in the case of that "universal experience"?
I am pretty easygoing. Not much really riles me. But being interrupted is among the things that does, and it's been a constant problem since childhood. I've developed an almost pathologically defiant compulsion not to interrupt; I bide my time for my "turn", which often never comes in a fast-moving conversation.
My voice tends to be mild and monotone ("radio voice"), and I avoid absolutist language ("adverb soup") which might create pressures against unorthodox thought. Yet I am frequently interrupted -- yes, even by women! -- and I've wondered if we also have a cultural aversion to speech which doesn't conform to authoritative tones and the vernacular of stereotyping.
In our race to the bottom for instant gratification in entertainment, politics, and information, would it surprise anyone if we had a collective bias against thoughtful and conciliatory speaking patterns (and 1500 characters)? Two patterns, I note, which women seem more apt to display. Such a bias may also help explain the undeniable strain of anti-intellectualism in our national discourse.
Or perhaps I've just spent too much time trying to understand why people are so rude.
I am pretty easygoing. Not much really riles me. But being interrupted is among the things that does, and it's been a constant problem since childhood. I've developed an almost pathologically defiant compulsion not to interrupt; I bide my time for my "turn", which often never comes in a fast-moving conversation.
My voice tends to be mild and monotone ("radio voice"), and I avoid absolutist language ("adverb soup") which might create pressures against unorthodox thought. Yet I am frequently interrupted -- yes, even by women! -- and I've wondered if we also have a cultural aversion to speech which doesn't conform to authoritative tones and the vernacular of stereotyping.
In our race to the bottom for instant gratification in entertainment, politics, and information, would it surprise anyone if we had a collective bias against thoughtful and conciliatory speaking patterns (and 1500 characters)? Two patterns, I note, which women seem more apt to display. Such a bias may also help explain the undeniable strain of anti-intellectualism in our national discourse.
Or perhaps I've just spent too much time trying to understand why people are so rude.
12
I am so disheartened to read comments asserting that women need to be more assertive and that men are treated similarly by other men. Dispute the research if you will, but the cited research suggests that this is a double standard, and that women are penalized for their assertiveness. Moreover, years of research suggests that men talk more than women, yet comments here disregard that. I listened to the hearing in its entirety and heard nothing that distinguished Senator Harris from her male colleagues, such that she would be singled out for chastisement.
20
You can talk to either MTF or FTM adult transitioners and get the same story. Male privilege to speak, women seen as having less to contribute.
My MTF trans wife and I had this discussion early on (I never knew her in her pretend male days).
She had oodles of her own examples of being treated as less smart, less technical, and less respectful after being perceived as female compared to when she was assumed male.
A famous example was the mathematician who after FTM transition was told by someone who did not know him well but had heard presentations as both, that "his sister" was nowhere near as smart ...
My MTF trans wife and I had this discussion early on (I never knew her in her pretend male days).
She had oodles of her own examples of being treated as less smart, less technical, and less respectful after being perceived as female compared to when she was assumed male.
A famous example was the mathematician who after FTM transition was told by someone who did not know him well but had heard presentations as both, that "his sister" was nowhere near as smart ...
14
Wow. that's just sad.
I was a high school teacher for twenty-five years. Women were always in the majority. However, until I had a female principal, I felt power was either shared equally or leaned toward male domination. However, when I had a female principal, I noticed the men became more silent and submissive in meetings. They seemed not to want to tangle with the combination of a female leader and a female majority. The most aggressive female leaders didn't hesitate to silence or interrupt both men and women if they thought it necessary to further their agenda. Once there are more women in charge, men will be more likely to accept the status quo without sexist comments or complaints.
4
I would be very interested to see reporting on any research into this communication issue, but with regard to ethnic minorities. I have experienced this in many situations: Being interrupted or cut off in management and strategic discussions, often by white men with far less experience or education in the topic/field.
5
Yes, it's all about assumed privilege.
2
If you actually have evidence of a gender imbalance in interruptions, please present it. How is it measured? Does it depend on income level? Does it depend on the power balance in the relationship?
Absent actual data, the whole article is not worth reading. It is just a rant. I have already heard plenty of those.
But, if there is data to back it up, that would be worth thinking about.
Absent actual data, the whole article is not worth reading. It is just a rant. I have already heard plenty of those.
But, if there is data to back it up, that would be worth thinking about.
4
You are not wrong to say that concrete data would be helpful. But, as I'm sure you can appreciate, these things are difficult to quantify and truly measure. I don't think it's hard to imagine that men might feel (subconsciously or otherwise) more comfortable speaking over a woman. There is enough data out there that confirms gender inequality and issues of male dominance still exist. It doesn't seem like a reach to say that these broader societal phenomenons could translate into certain problems in communication and discourse. There's enough "out there" that warrants reading this article with an open mind and not dismissing it as a "rant."
4
Greg: Ms. Chira linked to two academic studies in the article. Here is one of them: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0001839212439994
She also cited within the text of the article a book on the subject.
I'm afraid your unfamiliarity with the contents of the article that you chose to criticize completely substantiates the point you dismiss.
She also cited within the text of the article a book on the subject.
I'm afraid your unfamiliarity with the contents of the article that you chose to criticize completely substantiates the point you dismiss.
6
A decent place to start, if you're sincerely interested in the research, would be the works of linguist Deborah Tannen - and perhaps more importantly the bibliographies found therein. You'll find that the results of conversational research are dependent on a number of variables besides gender. But gender is there as a factor in many studies.
2
I am a leader in my (rather formal) workplace. Just today, a former male staff person addressed me by my first name in asking for a letter of recommendation. Later, I opened a meeting with professionals who are trained to be sensitive to those with less power in society, but I had to stop the proceedings and insist on chairs for all at the table when I saw three women sitting on the sidelines. The "mansplaining" is constant (and exhausting).
On the other hand, earlier this week, a male contact (from a traditional culture) went way out of his way to seek my counsel on an important question. I recently received a very public, written and unsolicited affirmation of my performance from a very senior man in organization.
Like many other women, I spend too much time pushing back on male behavior that demeans me or my female staff, but we are winning a few battles now and then and (thanks to articles like this one) the level of awareness, is growing.
On the other hand, earlier this week, a male contact (from a traditional culture) went way out of his way to seek my counsel on an important question. I recently received a very public, written and unsolicited affirmation of my performance from a very senior man in organization.
Like many other women, I spend too much time pushing back on male behavior that demeans me or my female staff, but we are winning a few battles now and then and (thanks to articles like this one) the level of awareness, is growing.
13
-- "Academic studies and countless anecdotes make it clear that being interrupted, talked over, shut down or penalized for speaking out is nearly a universal experience for women when they are outnumbered by men."
-- Has anyone studied what happens in situations where men are outnumbered by women?
-- Has anyone studied what happens in situations where men are outnumbered by women?
2
There are certainly aberrations in male/female interactions. One study has found that men only hear the first half of anything a woman says. They tune out after that. In my own experience, I was once teaching a course to a group of department heads at a university where my husband taught in a completely different department. The person who led the research program under whose aegis this course was offered, would "sum up" what was discussed in the previous meeting. He usually put it this way: "As DMACC [my husband] said last time [...]"--referring to my husband who was nowhere near the place and the words he referred to were mine, and mine alone.
8
As a female scientist I am often the only woman in the room. I am frequently talked down to, ignored, or my ideas appropriated by the men in the room.
When I assert myself I am considered "difficult". Nevertheless, I persist.
When I assert myself I am considered "difficult". Nevertheless, I persist.
34
Please don't give up. Keep persisting.
2
I guess I am the last one to question the academic studies. But it also seems to me that we have become a nation of interrupters -- regardless of sex. To me it seems to be a growing phenomenon spawned by the talk radio hosts who think they are god, the cable TV panels where each panelist feels the need to get the limelight, and general impatience by those who lead hectic lives. In the political arena, there are additional causes: the heightened partisanship of our times and the general incivility of political discourse.
10
Don't blame it all on the culture. When I was around my in laws, ALL of them interrupted each other constantly. I was not brought up to do that.
People in positions of power who do not have good management or people skills tend to interrupt those who they consider to be in lesser positions. A position of power does not have to be explicit - it can be as simple as being a man in a world where the vast majority of women have less power; or being white instead of a minority, able versus disables. As a result, women are definitely frequently interrupted - sometimes unconsciously, often intentionally.
As proof that it's power, rather than gender, that is the root cause, I have also been in situations where women in positions of power (whether explicit or due to their social status) regularly interrupt others - female or not.
As proof that it's power, rather than gender, that is the root cause, I have also been in situations where women in positions of power (whether explicit or due to their social status) regularly interrupt others - female or not.
10
Intellectually, Kamala Harris stands far above most other Senators (including both of those who interrupted and "instructed" her during hearings). Ironically, THAT fact alone may be most of the problem... Her line of questioning was too well thought out for them to understand.
34
She did indeed ask very good, very fair questions, as did her colleagues. Sessions--whom I loathe-- stretched out his answers to avoid simple yes/no responses, just as he did with her colleagues. Her colleagues, however, did give Sessions more of a chance to actually give a response before following up. These colleagues were civil toward the witness. Harris was not.
There was a double standard here, it's true. If a male questioner had treated a female witness the way Harris treated Sessions, he would--quite rightly--be rebuked on every cable news show and on every front page. Harris should be held to that same standard.
There was a double standard here, it's true. If a male questioner had treated a female witness the way Harris treated Sessions, he would--quite rightly--be rebuked on every cable news show and on every front page. Harris should be held to that same standard.
6
@jojo: you should go check Sen. Sanders's taking of testimony from Mick Mulvaney a few weeks ago. Or even his infamous Alan Greenspan grilling. I am a big fan of his, and don't have a problem with Senators on limited time cutting to the chase with evasive witnesses. But the discrepancy between the total nonreaction to that compared to the chastizing of Sen. Harris speaks volumes.
3
Love this comment Tom.
She was so clear and articulate -- a breath of fresh air in a stale, staid room of mostly old white men. The rules they play by in their game are designed to keep them in power and save face for themselves.
Kamala, as a justice-seeking intellectual, is searching for the truth; she broke their self-serving rules and they don't like it.
She was so clear and articulate -- a breath of fresh air in a stale, staid room of mostly old white men. The rules they play by in their game are designed to keep them in power and save face for themselves.
Kamala, as a justice-seeking intellectual, is searching for the truth; she broke their self-serving rules and they don't like it.
1
A woman once said to me in a casual conversation in the office, "I could never feel comfortable marrying a man who made less money than me." Well, there you have it. Men will will always be more aggressive in every aspect of business and life as long as women expect them to perform better than themselves. I'll bet that woman did find her rich man eventually. And I'll bet she complains that he interrupts her all the time.
10
Sir, Thank you for your singular anecdote of a singular experience with a singular woman. This article is about overarching patterns in business and politics and, I'd argue, women that do not have the same perspective as this one you have referenced. Many of us are fine making more money, fine with power and responsibility, and, even, dare I say, out-performing a man. We would simply appreciate the opportunity to function in those roles when we've earned them, just like all of the Sirs. Take your mansplaining somewhere else.
23
You're right that is a pretty brazen (and completely inaccurate) claim based on a statistical sample size of 1 person.
11
I am a male elementary school teacher, with 20 years of teaching experience, and for most of those years, I've been the only man on the teaching staff. In staff meetings, I face the same struggles that women face in male-dominated work places. During school staff meetings, I am frequently interrupted, and my views are often ignored or dismissed. I've met other male elementary school teachers, and they've shared similar stories.
6
In my first year as a set photographer, I remember that one time, shyly I asked about 10 artists to gather for a group portrait. All of them kindly agreed and I proceeded to "organise" them. When all were as I wished, one (man) photographer put his hand on my shoulder and lowered me down and took MY picture. All the artists protested and stayed so that I could do my job. I later confronted him and whenever we happened to be on the same set throughout the years, he stayed clear of my path, I believe, thanks to the artists who had known him for quite a while.
7
Senator Harris is a prosecutor through and though. Her questions, while pointed, were also on point. It's unfortunately not surprising the Sessions took the tactics in responding that he did, making it seem he was flustered by her questioning and somewhat hurt by that woman. Colbert had such a great characterization of him vis-a-vis her questions. Odd that when other people demanded specifics on the policy he was trying to use to refuse to answer questions, there was no Sessions high drama, nor were there interruptions. And you have to love the Republican spin doctor on Anderson Cooper's show who insisted on characterizing Senator Harris' questioning as "hysterical" despite Copper's pointing out there was no hysteria involved.
I am now in my 60's. It is this continually drumbeat still to this day by men, and unfortunately some women, who use words like "hysterical", "shrew", "bossy", "overly sensitive", "emotional", "demanding" etc to reduce women in the workplace. Not much has changed. Ask Senators Warren and Harris if they feel their same actions are viewed equitably with male colleagues saying the same things.
Men and women alike need to call out these instances as blatant sexism or nothing will change.
I am now in my 60's. It is this continually drumbeat still to this day by men, and unfortunately some women, who use words like "hysterical", "shrew", "bossy", "overly sensitive", "emotional", "demanding" etc to reduce women in the workplace. Not much has changed. Ask Senators Warren and Harris if they feel their same actions are viewed equitably with male colleagues saying the same things.
Men and women alike need to call out these instances as blatant sexism or nothing will change.
35
You can add "shrill" to your list. No one ever accuses a man of being shrill
7
I believe this is very hard for many men to understand. This happens to me all the time and I'm not pushy or long-winded but I am confident. There are men who are angered, frustrated or just plain shocked by a woman who knows her stuff. Even if a woman makes a mistake or seems confused, she has as much reason to fumble with her words as a man. If you don't believe me, watch a meeting and count the number of times this happens.
14
I expect this will help Harris build support and bring women out to vote in her reelection and if she seeks higher office.
19
When it comes down to it, we are still neanderthals dressed up as modern humans. The experience of being cut off, not recognized, interrupted and talked over is almost universal in the business world. My favorite is being talked over when presenting a really good idea, only to have it appear a week or so later with the man's authorship. There is a lot of good stuff missing on the Y chromosome!
We definitely need more women to run for office, since women are more likely to put ideas ahead of egos.
We definitely need more women to run for office, since women are more likely to put ideas ahead of egos.
18
From the take it or leave it category: one conference room power play tip I got from a former boss was: be the last person in the room to speak for the first time. Somehow that is supposed to encourage everyone to give your words more weight.
5
When I fill out docs, I put my female name first. Yet any follow up docs (loan forms, tax returns, thank you letters) invariably show up with his name first (or the lovely Mr. & Mrs. his name). Further, I earn the money, make the donations, etc! It's maddening.
I offer this for those who don't believe that our society favors men over women. It happens everyday, all the time, despite our best efforts to be seen & heard as equal (& sometimes even as more).
I offer this for those who don't believe that our society favors men over women. It happens everyday, all the time, despite our best efforts to be seen & heard as equal (& sometimes even as more).
27
I have also experienced this phenomenon. I inevitably purchase seasons tickets to the symphony and theatre or make charitable donations only to find them searching for me on their data base. I then give my husband's name and the search is over. I have been told on more than one occasion I am too sensitive and they have to list one name first so they went with his.
3
As a woman in a male dominated industry I agree with most of the cited bad male behaviors. But here's some advice for women that I don't hear much: Work on your voice. It should project and be low. It's easier to interrupt back and be listened to. Even I find many women's voices annoying...high, nasal, soft and/or whiny. Elocution training in high school would be valuable.
16
Way to support patriarchal power structures by suggesting women merely have to play by men's rules to be acceptable. No, thanks. That's not helping. Let everyone be who they are without having to cater to your poor sensitive ears.
2
Why don't you work on your voice to fit the style of 51 percent of the population?
2
As another woman in a male dominated industry, I hear you. I learned to speak low-pitched and clearly as well. But let me just point out that you are asking for women to sound more like men. It took me a while to realize that I was taking on the views of the men around me to fit in and succeed.
3
All the lather aside, is it possible that women do talk too much? Is it also possible that men talk too little? Or, is it really that neither men nor women talk at a rate or in a way that effectively communicates with each other. Could this just probably be because men and women are different?
If ever there was a Deborah Tannen moment, this is it.
If ever there was a Deborah Tannen moment, this is it.
8
If you fully read the article, this is addressed:
"A ream of studies affirm such anecdotes. Researchers consistently find that women are interrupted more and that men dominate conversations and decision-making, in corporate offices, town meetings, school boards and the United States Senate."
This isn't "lather," this is women having to fight harder to get their voices heard than the men who interrupt them or speak over them. This also includes having to fight against the perception that they "talk too much," when there are studies (Cutler and Scott, 1990, to name one) that show that even when they speak less than men, women are *perceived* to talk more.
"A ream of studies affirm such anecdotes. Researchers consistently find that women are interrupted more and that men dominate conversations and decision-making, in corporate offices, town meetings, school boards and the United States Senate."
This isn't "lather," this is women having to fight harder to get their voices heard than the men who interrupt them or speak over them. This also includes having to fight against the perception that they "talk too much," when there are studies (Cutler and Scott, 1990, to name one) that show that even when they speak less than men, women are *perceived* to talk more.
9
So, go right ahead and ignore the part where they state that oodles of research has been done that backs this up.
4
I'll never forget when I was at my husband's company holiday party and, after a conversation, one of his male colleagues commented about me, "She's very articulate."
29
I have heard the "very articulate" line as well -- but I am a white male. I remember it feeling like a backhanded compliment at the time, but only realized the next day that it was because everyone else in the conversation was >20 years my senior.
2
didn't see a shred of evidence that this is "Universal". All US based anecdotal. (by the way, last week NYT seemed to imply that "manspreading" was a much bigger societal problem). Can't wait for the next one.
8
Can this be because women listen to understand whereas men listen to respond?
I think it is the result of men growing up with and living with women and finding that you can't get a word in edgewise unless you interrupt. The usual nonverbal cues used in social and business situations are ignored. I think it has to do with talking-as-grooming and men are not supposed to be included.
As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
6
Funny how absolutely no one on the left, and certainly no one at the New York Times (not to repeat myself) had a problem with Betsy DeVos's being continually interrupted, talked over, and portrayed as a complete idiot during her Senate confirmation.
The left's alleged advocacy for women is only for those women with the correct, bien pensant ideologies, not for conservative or libertarian women.
The left's alleged advocacy for women is only for those women with the correct, bien pensant ideologies, not for conservative or libertarian women.
I was so hoping that the next democrat would pick up KH's line of questioning when their turn came. That should be the game plan going forward.
13
Harris was clear and on target. That merely multiplied the ubiquitous "shut up, woman" dynamic.
23
I'm not surprised about Uber's sexual harassment issues. Uber's CEO is one of the uglier males on the planet; I'm sure he's tried to get dates with supermodels who have turned him down big time. Beautiful women don't go out with dogs, period, no matter how wealthy they are.
And, no, I will NOT shut up! I've gone to HR numerous times, and I've had the immense satisfaction of watching women-hating Big Mouths get fired, or leave the company because they don't have the onions to change their erring behavior.
And, no, I will NOT shut up! I've gone to HR numerous times, and I've had the immense satisfaction of watching women-hating Big Mouths get fired, or leave the company because they don't have the onions to change their erring behavior.
Sounds like nothing much has changed since I grew up in the 50's hearing my father say regularly "girls should be seen and not heard". Especially sad when you consider all the really stupid things men have said, and more importantly done, throughout history. Don't think I need "say" more.
Senator McCain should be ashamed of himself. He was not even a committee member. Just who does he think he is. He is just a Senator sitting there at the behest of voters. He does not get to trounce on the right of California's voters to have their Senator heard. I voted for Sen. McCain years ago but he is no longer that man I admired anymore. Also the male Democrats in the room should have told McCain off, if not told him to just shut up. The Republicans have ruined the decorum in the Senate with their rule changes and Democrats need to no longer abide by any of them. If I had been in the room, I would have chimed in to let the honored Senator from California have her say. She is more than capable of grilling a little weasel like Sessions.
27
This comment rates the Best of the Day!
2
Growing up I remember a kids show called Wonderbug with a beat up sort of dune buggy that would turn into a "super car". The cast was three teens. The white guy, the token black guy, and the token girl. The girl sat in the back and figured out the solution to their predicaments. Both guys would ignore her. Then the white kid would repeat the same thing she said, the black kid would say brilliant, and that's what they did.
I've never forgotten that show because I have often been that girl throughout my life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderbug
I've never forgotten that show because I have often been that girl throughout my life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderbug
For all of the women out there...It isn't just women that are spoken over. Men speak over other men all the time. They aren't speaking over you because you are a women. These people would speak over anyone. It isn't because you are women. It is their way of trying to show they are dominate. They try to dominate everyone.
13
yet no one interrupted McCain when he was being incoherent and "talking over our heads"?
3
Watch a troop of chimpanzees or baboons sometime. The males are dominant, aggressive, loud, and abusive to the females. It works out for the males, since the most dominant ones get access to more viable wombs.
Humans, poor us, are still being dragged down by our monkey brains. Our environment needs us to make use of all of the smart individuals who can think long term and solve complex problems. About half of those individuals are going to be women.
But our dumb monkey brains overrule our higher intelligence and convince us that dominant males deserve deference. Our dumb monkey brains think females are only interesting insofar as they are fertile. Our dumb monkey brains cause us to mistake dominant males for competent males - which makes sense if you need someone to hoot loudly and hurl a stick at a leopard or a rival troop, but really hurts us when we need, say, an international scientific and engineering collaboration to solve climate change.
We have lots of smart women and smart, introverted, thoughtful, men. But we don't use their brains. Instead we turn for leadership to the monkey that hoots the loudest, has the biggest harem, and bangs the loudest on the overturned trash can. Giving leadership responsibilities to the males with the best dominance displays is comforting to scared monkeys, but it's a disaster for complex human societies.
Humans, poor us, are still being dragged down by our monkey brains. Our environment needs us to make use of all of the smart individuals who can think long term and solve complex problems. About half of those individuals are going to be women.
But our dumb monkey brains overrule our higher intelligence and convince us that dominant males deserve deference. Our dumb monkey brains think females are only interesting insofar as they are fertile. Our dumb monkey brains cause us to mistake dominant males for competent males - which makes sense if you need someone to hoot loudly and hurl a stick at a leopard or a rival troop, but really hurts us when we need, say, an international scientific and engineering collaboration to solve climate change.
We have lots of smart women and smart, introverted, thoughtful, men. But we don't use their brains. Instead we turn for leadership to the monkey that hoots the loudest, has the biggest harem, and bangs the loudest on the overturned trash can. Giving leadership responsibilities to the males with the best dominance displays is comforting to scared monkeys, but it's a disaster for complex human societies.
I do not understand this part of your story:
She and Christopher F. Karpowitz, associate professor of political science at Brigham Young University, found that, at school board meetings, men and women did not speak as long until women made up 80 percent of the school board. When men were in the minority, however, they did not speak up less.
She and Christopher F. Karpowitz, associate professor of political science at Brigham Young University, found that, at school board meetings, men and women did not speak as long until women made up 80 percent of the school board. When men were in the minority, however, they did not speak up less.
I loved it when Sessions said she was "making him nervous." Thought he was going to ask for some eau de cologne to dab at his temples. Fortunately his gentlemen defenders rushed to his rescue. How quaint.
54
Haha. Thanks. Hilarious!
3
Poor thing. If he is so delicate, maybe he should not have a job like Attorney General of the United States. But then I guess most men get "nervous" when a woman asks them pointed questions, won't back down, and won't take "I don't recall" for an answer.
3
In medieval times, a scold’s bridle was used on women who talked too much. It was a iron muzzle cage for the head, with a spiked metal plate that fit into the mouth and pressed down on the tongue. If the woman tried to speak, she would hurt herself. We've come so far in some ways. And not so far in others.
4
Intelligent women, not so intelligent males - to uphold the patriarchy the women needs to be shut upped. It's as simple as that.
4
Bravo for you for doing this article. Ah, but we have known it for so long. We see it everywhere. I work in health care and am an advanced practice nurse. Nowhere is the incidence of interruption of women more prevalent than in the hospital and clinic settings. We don't even get a syllable out before we are cut off. Why you ask? Because as women we know less than the men. I am being facetious. Now, the biggest ding dong in the land, el presidente, makes the demeaning of women commonplace. I am 68 and so weary of all of this. However, I am given hope and a hardy laugh when I see women "interrupt and persist!" Oh yeah -- John McCain joins the long list of sexist, misogynistic ding dongs.
11
"Women are too hard, too soft, but never just right. What that means is that women are seen as either competent or liked but not both.” Aside from the faults in the Electoral College system, this is the reason Hillary is not in the White House. The election shouldn't have even been close; as many or more people voted "against" Clinton as "for" Trump.
18
My take on the election, and I thought so before the election, was that Clinton would likely have won if she had not been the spouse of a former President. Voters want to elect a woman who has made it on her own, not one who has made it half way there on the back of her spouse.
It seems a fair position - to ask direct inquiries and to team-up by cross referencing prior questions left unanswered or for which there were conflicting responses – for the Dems to take in confronting an individual who refuses to get to the point and obfuscates and lies when providing answers. The Dems seemed to have little teamwork going for them during these hearings.
2
As a woman, I get treatment like this all the time in my own family, from men who love me. On our last vacation as a family I was told every day to be quiet and stop arguing so much--usually after only a question or two. How ridiculous that there is no place, at work or at home, for women to feel free to express themselves except in majority-woman situations.
11
Genuine question, I'm not trying to be snarky or make a point, I am struggling with this myself and want another perspective: What does it mean that they love you, what does love mean, if you aren't seen as a fully valid equal human being, if you aren't respected?
3
Amen, women need to really probe that one in their personal lives. We all flub it sometimes, we can all be self-absorbed, and we can all feel that we should accommodate sometimes to make interpersonal relations work. But what is the nature of a good healthy relationship? When does accommodating conflict and differences for a variety of seemingly good reasons change the nature of those relations into something we cannot really call good or healthy? A lot to ponder.
1
I'd guess that you are brighter and more articulate than the men in your family, and they know it but could never acknowledge it.
3
I remember having a conversation with my mother about something and my father came in the room and start interrupting us to voice his opinion. My mother interrupted him and said to him "When I want your opinion I'll ask for it." It totally shut him down. I asked her where she came up with that response and she said she would use it in meetings at work (she was a manager at an insurance company) when she was interrupted - usually by a man.
I have a sister wife daughter and some female friends. The urge to interrupt often rages.
However I've been corrected enough times to learn that it's bullying, primitive, rude and unproductive. Some men are trying to be better men but Lordy it takes a lot of practice.
However I've been corrected enough times to learn that it's bullying, primitive, rude and unproductive. Some men are trying to be better men but Lordy it takes a lot of practice.
Related to this, when men get angry I will point out they are being 'hysterical' or 'really emotional'. The bewilderment to have their anger - which has always been legitimized as a good male trait - seen as a weak "female" trait is, well, hysterical.
26
What a great idea!
1
A few million women should phone Burr's office and demand an apology. If he doesn't answer, call him at home in Texas. On Sunday morning. Early.
2
Perhaps women should stop being so sensitive? Men interrupt women and each other all the time. Not all of us are that way, but for a lot of guys, that's how they function. Here's an idea - instead of asking men to be more sensitive, how about asking women to be tougher? Being tough and outspoken works. It works for men, and it works for the women who have the courage to try it. It's one of the reasons men get slightly higher salaries - we're more willing to negotiate and ask for more money!
1
Look how well it worked for Hillary Clinton.
3
Interrupting someone while they are speaking is rude.
So is victim blaming.
So is victim blaming.
2
Most importantly, this starts at home. Take note at the kitchen table, in preschool and kindergarten classrooms . . . Female teachers perpetuate it too, even as they do it unintentionally. It takes a village, cause it starts in the cradle.
7
If a man makes a statement and there is no woman there to correct him...is he still wrong?
7
Probably.
4
If it happened in Reading, PA no one would admit to hearing any "statement" or seeing any man.
Last week I was in an airport and I witnessed a group of 5 people, 4 men and 1 women, standing in a circle, discussing a meeting that they had just had. Based on the topic (yes, I was totally eavesdropping!), they were all highly competent executives. It was shocking to watch how blatantly the men interrupted, talked over and ignored their female colleague. She would start to talk and they would look away from her, another person would pipe up or just simply talk louder. What they often wouldn't listen to her for was for a stupid joke or laugh. It took her 3-5 attempts of making a point for them to actually hear her. If I were braver I would have either video'ed them or interrupted those men to point out what they were doing.
13
What you say may be true, but did you also notice that the men probably interrupted each other again and again and again as well? I think you're confusing a culture of sensitive turn-taking with the rough and tumble of overlapping speech. Me thinks it would be different if the majority were women. Or would it?
That's a good question James R Dupak and one thing I was particularly looking for, but, alas the answer to your questions is a no, it was not an equal interruption/talking over/ignoring. The men in the conversation would listen to each other/banter/add on with ease but they did not behave the same toward their female counterpart. If it hadn't been so appalling it would have seemed like an over the top SNL sketch.
3
Everybody, both male and female, talk too much these days as far as I'm concerned. Silence was golden. Ubiquitous iPhones, Twitter, Facebook, this comment page, etc. . . . Matches in children's hands, mouths out of control.
4
Kamala Harris has five dangerous traits, as far as Republican men are concerned: she’s a woman, she’s a Democrat, she’s smart, she asks articulate, pertinent questions and she refuses to back down when rudely interrupted.
Thanks Kamala! You’re a rational, patriotic senator and we appreciate your efforts in trying to get to the bottom of this seemingly large web of corruption. Kudos as well to King, Wyden, Heinrich and Manchin.
Thanks Kamala! You’re a rational, patriotic senator and we appreciate your efforts in trying to get to the bottom of this seemingly large web of corruption. Kudos as well to King, Wyden, Heinrich and Manchin.
29
I worked for elected boards for nearly forty years. The quality of decision making and outcomes were always higher when there was a woman on the board. I like Senator Harris. She is an upgrade from Senator Boxer. But she needs to sharpen her questioning. When you ramble people tend to start ignoring you. (Sen. Franken anyone?) Sen. McCain has no business interrupting anyone. However, there is no problem in telling her she ran out of time. She needs to keep on top of that, but she is new and will get better. Again, I like her a lot and hope she doesn't get too frustrated with the guys "manterupting".
3
I have also noticed that, for standing meetings with mostly female attendees, the men who are supposed to be there are often "too busy" to attend.
4
Ex-officio members of a committee, like Sen. McCain, should not be allowed to say anything let alone interrupt a member of the committee who has the floor. While Chairman Burr first directed McCain to let the Chair run the hearing, he then made the mistake of directing Sen. Harris to let Sessions "answer." He HAD answered, and was merely repeating nonsense, to which she had the right to stop him, use her time and redirect -- without interruption from others. Sen. Harris was on to something important -- nailing down Sessions' claim that he was following some sort of policy or protocol (which he couldn't identify), and revealing that he'd done nothing substantively to prepare for the hearing by virtue of all of his "I don't recall"s. Agree with writer below - seven minutes is no time at all if the witness is allowed to speak in run on sentences.
12
Interrupting others is a personality trait, not a gender trait. When it becomes obsessive, it's just an indicator of a narcissist.
The most effective communicators are the people who listen more than they talk.
The most effective communicators are the people who listen more than they talk.
7
The issue with Sen. Harris interrupting Mr. Sessions was because he refused to answer questions as asked. So he threw up chaff to 1) confuse the issue and 2) run out the clock. Sen. Harris recognized this and was simply trying to get her questions answered. Of course she ran over her time because what should have been a one word or one sentence answer to a question turned into a rambling monologue and complaint that this poor southern boy couldn't keep up. It was an embarrassment.
22
I don't think Senator Harris served her cause well by badgering him. She had the right questions. Her badgering wasted them.
4
The main point is: what if you put Harris's words in a man's mouth? Would McCain have interrupted?
2
Your article is mainly telling the story of Kamala Harris interrupting Jeff Sessions.
7
And showing the world the contempt that Jeff Sessions has for the Senate by showing up unprepared and unwilling to answer forthrightfully.
1
There is a shelf of social-psychological research findings that show that, in meetings, those who talk the most are taken most seriously.
1
It's not only when women are outnumbered by men in a group. Men interrupting, overtalking, hogging the airspace, "correcting" (even when they have lesser expertise) women happens all the time in one on one situations.
10
If we don't, we won't get a word in edgewise.
1
Am I the only woman with mixed feelings on this one? I certainly have been interrupted at work but, yet, who hasn't, male or female? I respect the studies, the experiences of other women and am in no way discounting them.
Donald Trump interrupted Hillary AND everyone on the campaign trail. Yet he refused to shake Angela Merkel's hand. Think that would have happened with Putin? Of course not.
So is this gender politics? I'm not sure we can always know.
What I will tell you is I do notice it in my dating life and those dates are the last dates. I'm not going to spend a life time with someone who doesn't know how to listen. None of us should. My two pennies. Thanks, um, for listening.
Donald Trump interrupted Hillary AND everyone on the campaign trail. Yet he refused to shake Angela Merkel's hand. Think that would have happened with Putin? Of course not.
So is this gender politics? I'm not sure we can always know.
What I will tell you is I do notice it in my dating life and those dates are the last dates. I'm not going to spend a life time with someone who doesn't know how to listen. None of us should. My two pennies. Thanks, um, for listening.
173
I recall a scorecard from early Democratic debates in 2016 in which Hillary was by far the most apt to interrupt others. I agree that looking through the lens of sexism can often warp perceptions, even if it can just as often provide a clear picture.
I'm sorry to say that in time your feelings will not be so "mixed".
2
This is about the only intelligent response to an article with a sexist premise (that once again all men are sexist and wrong) that I've read. There are rude people across BOTH genders! And totally agree, this is one of the criteria I use to evaluate women I have dated - how often they interrupt me and, correspondingly, how totally and absolutely in love they are with the sounds of their own voices. And let me tell you, in my experience, which is of course limited as compared to the mass of humanity, that this is a COMMON trait of women. I even left a marriage years ago as my ex never let me complete a sentence in 5 yrs and refused to listen to my entreaties to stop this completely disrespectful behavior. AND I have experienced many women (and many men) doing the same thing throughout my career. To pretend this is a male only characteristic is completely offensive (and sexist)!
A minor quibble with this article. Senator Harris was purposely interrupted to stop her from acting in a way that was considered illegitimate because she was a woman. No aggressive or assertive male questioner was stopped. A male Senator was considered entitled to question as he pleased. Both Secretary Kelly and A.G. Sessions argued back against Senator Harris with Kelly impudently declaring his right to speak over hers. I would like a specific discussion of this aspect of the phenomenon - a particular expectation of gender norms and a resolute policing and enforcement of those norms.
13
Back in 1991, Professor of linguistics Deborah Tannen identified interruptions in speech as a form of dominance and control. Read "You Just Don't Understand: Men and Women in Conversation" to get a better understanding of how men use speech in business meetings to attempt to dominate women. Like other commenters, I've noted repeatedly observed during business meetings women being cut off and their ideas usurped without credit.
12
Too bad that this article only deals with the issue of male interruptions of women in the public arena. Interruptions of women by men are just another method of getting them to stop talking and listen to their "betters."Odds are that this phenomenon happens even more frequently in the private sphere. How often does a husband or partner "finish the thoughts" of the woman in his life, by interrupting her to interject what he assumes she is about to say?
Half of the fights in my marriage of nearly thirty years are about this very topic!I My husband argues that his interruptions are justified in the name of "getting to the point." When I object to having my thoughts finished for me usually incorrectly, the discussion turns into an explanation of how unreasonable that response is. I need a lot more meditation to work on my patience.
As long as men can come up with rationales that they feel make their disrespectfulness towards women the right thing to do, they will continue it. I suggest that they try the same technique with their boss, co-workers, or clients, and see what kind of response it gets. Interruptions may "feel" natural, but they are just plain rude.
Half of the fights in my marriage of nearly thirty years are about this very topic!I My husband argues that his interruptions are justified in the name of "getting to the point." When I object to having my thoughts finished for me usually incorrectly, the discussion turns into an explanation of how unreasonable that response is. I need a lot more meditation to work on my patience.
As long as men can come up with rationales that they feel make their disrespectfulness towards women the right thing to do, they will continue it. I suggest that they try the same technique with their boss, co-workers, or clients, and see what kind of response it gets. Interruptions may "feel" natural, but they are just plain rude.
18
From the article: "Academic studies and countless anecdotes make it clear that being interrupted, talked over, shut down or penalized for speaking out is nearly a universal experience for women when they are outnumbered by men."
In my experience this behavior is not limited to situations in which the women are outnumbered. I've been privy to many meetings (and even conference calls) where the only male in the room repeatedly interrupted and loudly talked over the woman who was speaking -- in many cases not even to make a point, but just to make his presence felt. Each time, the woman would politely wait for him to finish so she could resume speaking, only to be interrupted again.
It wears one down. It is unproductive and wastes time. It is arrogant and disrespectful.
It should not be tolerated.
In my experience this behavior is not limited to situations in which the women are outnumbered. I've been privy to many meetings (and even conference calls) where the only male in the room repeatedly interrupted and loudly talked over the woman who was speaking -- in many cases not even to make a point, but just to make his presence felt. Each time, the woman would politely wait for him to finish so she could resume speaking, only to be interrupted again.
It wears one down. It is unproductive and wastes time. It is arrogant and disrespectful.
It should not be tolerated.
23
The problem is not only in the workplace it is everywhere. The reason for it is that men continue to think they are inherently superior. It is a problem in schools at all levels, on committees, in clubs and for some at home too. Could we just say "There you go again" or find a standard phrase that we could all use. It will never stop unless we agree with how to deal with it.
24
I believe this topic is getting worn out. All of a sudden this is a thing?
Women have cracked the ceiling and are in the best shape as far as equal footing with men than anytime in history.
Maybe they are also being too sensitive. When they complain about this it hurts their case more than it helps.
Women have cracked the ceiling and are in the best shape as far as equal footing with men than anytime in history.
Maybe they are also being too sensitive. When they complain about this it hurts their case more than it helps.
7
There is nothing sudden about the phenomenon of females being overridden, interrupted and generally dismissed as being overly sensitive. It is generally a constant in our lives and those that speak up or continue to speak over those interrupting are considered to be worse than simply complaining. I see little sign that this will change within my granddaughters' lifetime.
22
Calling someone 'too sensitive' is a classic way to dismiss an experience you don't care to think about.
19
Women have "cracked" the glass ceiling. And that should be enough? We should not want it eliminated entirely?
Women are in the "best shape" vis a vis men than ever? So we should be content that we are no longer considered chattel? We should not want equality?
Maybe you're too insensitive to the absurdity of your points.
Women are in the "best shape" vis a vis men than ever? So we should be content that we are no longer considered chattel? We should not want equality?
Maybe you're too insensitive to the absurdity of your points.
2
Being interrupted is a norm of daily life in professional experience. One learns how to respond in different situations but mostly it is infuriating. I try to teach my daughter to hold her own voice even in a world, where still, sadly, she craves positive attention and approval from the boys.
7
This article is right on the mark, not just for its discussion of Sen. Harris' experience, but that of women in any male-dominated career. As one who worked in tech for over fifteen years, I know being interrupted, talked-down-to, and not receiving credit our ideas is why I and many of my female peers felt pushed from STEM careers; when a woman spends most of her career being the only female in the room, she could be the most capable and most ignored at the same time.
If diversity in the workplace really matters, this is one of the issues that needs to be addressed first for women to feel included. I'm sorry to see what Sen. Harris is going through, but am grateful for her work and for her to be the person who brings this issue to the forefront.
If diversity in the workplace really matters, this is one of the issues that needs to be addressed first for women to feel included. I'm sorry to see what Sen. Harris is going through, but am grateful for her work and for her to be the person who brings this issue to the forefront.
30
Your reference to Senator Harris would be more persuasive if she had in fact been permitting Deputy AG Rosenstein and AG Sessions to finish their answers before she spoke over them with rapid fire additional questions. It gave the impression she was more interested in the optics of cross-examination and getting her questions out there than what the responses were. Based on the favorable publicity she received after being admonished during the Rosenstein hearing, it is not surprising she repeated the pattern with Sessions. Her strategy has obviously succeeded.
8
OR . . . you didn't watch the hearings where Mrs. Clinton was treated the same way by the MALE members of the committee.
I'd call it a double-standard, but that presupposes level playing field.
It's hypocrisy, CHM. You resemble that remark.
I'd call it a double-standard, but that presupposes level playing field.
It's hypocrisy, CHM. You resemble that remark.
6
With regard to the questioning of Sessions: I heard her 8 minute segment on radio. She asked specific questions and got "good old boy windbag" answers that she attempted to interrupt and refocus.
I got a sense of how limited her time to question Sessions was, and how frustrating it was to have him dissemble during her time when he was perfectly happy to give answers to the softball questions the Republicans asked.
I got a sense of how limited her time to question Sessions was, and how frustrating it was to have him dissemble during her time when he was perfectly happy to give answers to the softball questions the Republicans asked.
4
Sen. Harris and far too many others like her(eg Rachel Maddow) sound lke a Gattling machine gun on automatic with an inexaustable supply of bullets who can't be interrupted even by women.
1
In my 35 years in business, many of them in senior management, I was interrupted, ignored, belittled, demeaned, and harassed by men so frequently that it seemed a daily occurrence. This is one of the reasons I left the corporate world to start my own (very successful) consulting business. When a man hires you as a consultant and pays you big bucks to diagnose and fix his company's problems, he respects and listens to you more. Being interrupted, talked over, or ignored by men happens in countless social situations too. The only way to deal with it effectively, I have found, is to call them out on it when they do it and refuse to accept it. If they interrupt you, keep talking. If the continue, tell them to stop interrupting you. This works more often than you might think, and actually increases their respect for you.
503
I work at a university and have experienced the same. I have had men cut me off, show frustration at having to listen to me, and then let their male peers talk on and on, often saying what I just said as if I never opened my mouth. Worse, I've had a male colleague with a higher rank insist that I restate something I said in a more positive manner--something I NEVER heard requested of a male colleague.
4
I could have written every single word of Janet's letter myself - and I'm male.
1
Years ago I worked for a man who said I "made him nervous" whenever I spoke up in meetings. I put it down to his being short and insecure.
34
maybe he was paying you a strange compliment? maybe he thought you were likely to bring to light some mistake he made. Perhaps he was, in his way, saying that you were a trusted advisor whose opinion he valued yet feared, because it was cause him to rethink things.
From Wikipedia:
"Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case, the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally."
"Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case, the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally."
nice try - he actually brought in someone at a new vp level between us and had that guy fire me
1
This resonates with me. I work at a public college in south Florida which has a large number of women and minority leaders. Maybe it's just because I have an assertive personality, but there have been times when I've suspected some of them have allowed me to bully them a little.
2
Kamala Harris was not badgering Sessions. He either was deliberately not answering her questions or couldn't comprehend them. Every time he drifted off into something else that had nothing to do with what she asked and was eating up her time allotment.
35
He is using the opportunity of answering a question to say what he wants to say to justify himself and not to answer the question. Ms. Harris was trying to stop him from doing this - trying to get him to limit his speech to answering the questions she asked and not just saying what he wants to say to score points for himself.
3
The interruption of Senator Harris may not be the best example of the larger issue. I listened to her questioning, and she was repeatedly cutting off Sessions' answers with her next question. It was pretty annoying. But in her defense, each Senator is only given a short amount of time for questioning. She was obviously trying to get in as many questions as possible before her time ran out.
As to the larger issue of men interrupting women, I'm sure a lot of that occurs. And in many cases, it may indeed show a lack of respect for what the women have to say. But if this is an open airing of social grievances, there have been several occasions where I have waited for a pause to occur when two or more women are talking so that I could raise a point, only to find that the women changed subjects seamlessly without taking a breath. From women's perspective, I can see that they may have been subconsciously conditioned to do this to avoid being interrupted. But then, in adopting that habit, they can expect some interruption to allow others to have their say and need to be reasonably forgiving of it.
As to the larger issue of men interrupting women, I'm sure a lot of that occurs. And in many cases, it may indeed show a lack of respect for what the women have to say. But if this is an open airing of social grievances, there have been several occasions where I have waited for a pause to occur when two or more women are talking so that I could raise a point, only to find that the women changed subjects seamlessly without taking a breath. From women's perspective, I can see that they may have been subconsciously conditioned to do this to avoid being interrupted. But then, in adopting that habit, they can expect some interruption to allow others to have their say and need to be reasonably forgiving of it.
5
Frankly, after many years of marriage, I and others my age (45+), find it unwise to interrupt the wife. The retribution can be quick and severe or slow and unexpected. Conversely, I find wives talk more and are more likely to interrupt as in, "You're not going to tell that one again, are you?" mmm, no, I wouldn't think of it.
Further, after working 20+ years I stayed home to raise our 5 sons. At pick up time, I was a fly on the wall to some pretty interesting conversations. Women talk more than men, this is a fact based on thousands of days of observations. Many topics they covered would just not come to the mind of a man to discuss.
Finally, as you all complain about this "Universal Phenomenon" (love these Times' bellowing headlines like Reeling British"), please recall that a man's life span in the US is more than 5 years fewer than a female. What could be the cause of this? My guess is a lifetime of internalizing issues and problems which, to a certain extent, runs counter to many of the claims on this board.
Cheers.
Further, after working 20+ years I stayed home to raise our 5 sons. At pick up time, I was a fly on the wall to some pretty interesting conversations. Women talk more than men, this is a fact based on thousands of days of observations. Many topics they covered would just not come to the mind of a man to discuss.
Finally, as you all complain about this "Universal Phenomenon" (love these Times' bellowing headlines like Reeling British"), please recall that a man's life span in the US is more than 5 years fewer than a female. What could be the cause of this? My guess is a lifetime of internalizing issues and problems which, to a certain extent, runs counter to many of the claims on this board.
Cheers.
8
There is a big difference between conversations in a social setting and a professional environment.
3
"I find wives talk more and are more likely to interrupt..."
Home is not the same as work.
The studies tend to show that men will tend to dominate women everywhere but the home. https://www.livescience.com/1673-study-women-charge-home.html
Home is not the same as work.
The studies tend to show that men will tend to dominate women everywhere but the home. https://www.livescience.com/1673-study-women-charge-home.html
3
I'm not so sure this is an observation about the boorish male. Women I've known seem to be more polite, sensitive, and socially aware than are the men. Further, men have grown up (sadly) used to women "opening the conversational door" for them too quickly. That certainly can result in mixed-group conversations being dominated by the men, but I don't think it's because they dismiss the women.
Rather, I think that happens because conversations are often competitions, everyone waiting, preparing, and then jumping into the breech when given the opportunity. Politeness and social awareness will (too often) allow the pushy to dominate the classy. Men grow up trained to be pushy and women classy. 'nuf said.
Rather, I think that happens because conversations are often competitions, everyone waiting, preparing, and then jumping into the breech when given the opportunity. Politeness and social awareness will (too often) allow the pushy to dominate the classy. Men grow up trained to be pushy and women classy. 'nuf said.
5
And if you are a woman who tries to buck the "classy" (i.e. quiet) stereotype, you will be punished, by your male and often female colleagues. Men are not punished for being assertive; women are. 'nuf said.
2
Right you are.
1
Thirty years ago, when I did my MBA, I and four others, three men and a woman, were given a test. We were each given a sheet of paper with information on it and we had to deduce something from it. What we didn't know was each paper had something different on it, and so it could only be solved by everyone contributing.
We failed.
At the end, we were shown a video. We had all ignored the woman's contribution. We didn't listen.
It taught me a valuable lesson....
We failed.
At the end, we were shown a video. We had all ignored the woman's contribution. We didn't listen.
It taught me a valuable lesson....
65
An obvious solution is to push for equal representation in all settings. It's harder to get than it should be. Men interrupt women because they feel entitled to dominate women. That sense of entitlement causes a world of problems. We have a lot of work to do - in the meantime what many of them don't realize is that half the intellect, creativity and innovation in the world is being squandered, because of their fragile, immature egos.
11
Ma'am, you paint with a broad brush.
2
Chris Matthews does it all the time. Why have people on if you won't let them express their views.
9
Hmmmmm. This isn't related to this article is it?
The idea of women's verbal contributions being shut down is not new. Many women are also shut down in marriage by their husbands who must feel threatened by the thought that their wives have a brain. I believe that many women have been shut down for so long in their marriages, they accept that state as the norm. I also believe that many women have been shut down by their fathers and perhaps their mothers as they grew into maturity. I applaud Sen. Harris for her tough questioning and I did not miss that the chairman shut her down for doing exactly what needed to be done to keep Gen. Sessions from rambling against the clock. She complied graciously as any smart woman would do in a similar circumstance.
13
This frequently happens to me. I've tried a number of tactics to put an end to, but despite my efforts the behavior persists. It's gotten to a point where I now just ask people to allow me to finish my sentence or thought. I'm not going to be bullied and have the confidence to stand up for myself.
Harris was in the right here, to me it appeared that Burr and McCain were somehow coming to the defense of Sessions. I highly doubt they would have given Clinton (or any other woman) the same treatment. They do owe Harris an apology, it marginalizes her in a meaningful way.
I find a great deal of humor in that Sessions even acknowledged Harris was making her nervous, which was probably a good thing.
Harris was in the right here, to me it appeared that Burr and McCain were somehow coming to the defense of Sessions. I highly doubt they would have given Clinton (or any other woman) the same treatment. They do owe Harris an apology, it marginalizes her in a meaningful way.
I find a great deal of humor in that Sessions even acknowledged Harris was making her nervous, which was probably a good thing.
13
The fact is, men talk more than women do. It is an urban myth that women are more talkative. Whether at the gym or in the board room, men are the yackers. They are also on their cell phones more.
5
Not when driving.
Many groups feel and often are victimized. We all belong to a group and we also all belong to multiple groups. Some are clearly more aggrieved than others. However, constantly whining and otherwise communicating about being aggrieved is tiresome and counter-productive, because it is tiresome. Action matters; so stand up for yourself and fight back, in any way ethically, morally, and legally possible. So stop whining and do something; or continue to do whatever it is you are doing. Just stop whining. Whining and complaining are actions that turn people off and engender resentment rather than empathy.
2
I've had this happen to me both in personal and professional situations. Often, the men I'm dealing with think they know everything that needs knowing and think that asking questions is a "waste of time." They're usually proven wrong and we end up dealing with situations that could have been avoided but they will never admit it. I've been told by a man that I'm argumentative because I don't agree with him. Seriously? Often a man will think he knows what I'm about to say and interrupt me when I'm speaking. I have often had to tell them flat out to let me finish speaking before they react. It is a little satisfying when the light bulb finally goes off in their heads and they realize that they got it wrong. Internally, I'm thinking what DA's they are though.
7
Years ago, I read a biography of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. He visited England at least once. There he heard some unusual words of reproof:
"You Americans are so hard to converse with," the man said. (Or was it a woman? I don't remember.) "You never interrupt. You sit there and wait till your interlocutor is done. We find it--disconcerting."
Way to go, America! No matter WHO does it--of whatever nationality, of whatever gender--I find interrupting people an ABHORRENT practice. I really do. I hate to be interrupted myself. I never interrupt other people. (At least, to the best of my recollection I never do!) When conversing with two or more people and someone interrupts someone else, I wait till Mr. Couldn't-wait-to-put-his-oar-in has finished. Then I turn to the interruptee.
"Well John (Bill . . .Bob. . . .Brenda. . . Susan). . . .what were you saying about ________________?"
There! Got it off my chest. That women are more likely than men to find themselves cut off (as in traffic) . . . hey! who doubts it? Not me! That's the way we men are . . . . .
. . . .oh but wait! By the way. . . .
. . .I am NOT Susan Fitzwater but her husband. . . .
. . . and I NEVER interrupt. Just thought you might want to know.
Any thoughts? I promise--cross my heart and hope to die--
I won't interrupt.
No? Okay. Nice talking to you. Take care.
Bye.
"You Americans are so hard to converse with," the man said. (Or was it a woman? I don't remember.) "You never interrupt. You sit there and wait till your interlocutor is done. We find it--disconcerting."
Way to go, America! No matter WHO does it--of whatever nationality, of whatever gender--I find interrupting people an ABHORRENT practice. I really do. I hate to be interrupted myself. I never interrupt other people. (At least, to the best of my recollection I never do!) When conversing with two or more people and someone interrupts someone else, I wait till Mr. Couldn't-wait-to-put-his-oar-in has finished. Then I turn to the interruptee.
"Well John (Bill . . .Bob. . . .Brenda. . . Susan). . . .what were you saying about ________________?"
There! Got it off my chest. That women are more likely than men to find themselves cut off (as in traffic) . . . hey! who doubts it? Not me! That's the way we men are . . . . .
. . . .oh but wait! By the way. . . .
. . .I am NOT Susan Fitzwater but her husband. . . .
. . . and I NEVER interrupt. Just thought you might want to know.
Any thoughts? I promise--cross my heart and hope to die--
I won't interrupt.
No? Okay. Nice talking to you. Take care.
Bye.
1
Advancing the equal status of women is hard work and we seem to still have a long hard road ahead of us. There are so many deeply engrained social norms that prevail and these norms start early in life too.
An elderly man like John McCain can make a rambling incoherent contribution to the Comey hearing and it's laughed about but forgotten. If any woman had said anything so incoherent in a public forum, she would be dismissed for good as an idiot. But McCain has a military background and is an old war-horse so his status is guaranteed.
Kamala Harris is younger than John McCain, female and a person of color. She has to work twice as hard as him to be heard and taken seriously. I can't think of a single woman who occupies a similar position of privilege to John McCain.
As women, we are always suspect, always questioned, our status is always in doubt. Did we really deserve that promotion? Do we have anything really useful to say? Are we just coasting on our husband's earnings and status? Are we just token women or eye candy, there to fill a space? Until successful, visibly powerful women become the norm and not the exception in public life, we will continue to face this uphill struggle.
An elderly man like John McCain can make a rambling incoherent contribution to the Comey hearing and it's laughed about but forgotten. If any woman had said anything so incoherent in a public forum, she would be dismissed for good as an idiot. But McCain has a military background and is an old war-horse so his status is guaranteed.
Kamala Harris is younger than John McCain, female and a person of color. She has to work twice as hard as him to be heard and taken seriously. I can't think of a single woman who occupies a similar position of privilege to John McCain.
As women, we are always suspect, always questioned, our status is always in doubt. Did we really deserve that promotion? Do we have anything really useful to say? Are we just coasting on our husband's earnings and status? Are we just token women or eye candy, there to fill a space? Until successful, visibly powerful women become the norm and not the exception in public life, we will continue to face this uphill struggle.
24
Senator Harris should have told the chairperson and everyone in the place that they have no place trying to shut her down. She is a senator and should be treated as the men. The "senator" in her name doesn't say senator 2nd class female. She was mistreated by beauregard deplorably and she should have called him out for it, as well as the idiotic misogynistic chair of the committee burr.
7
This is so prevalent, it's crazy and more so as many men (my darling hubby included) think this is much ado about nothing. For the commenters and others trying to make the case that women interrupt as much as men, repeat themselves ad nauseam, and all of the other excuses, justifications, etc. please note we are simply doing everything we can to be heard by you with the same level of respect and dignity as you give to the men on the room. We all want to contribute and to feel that our contribution is valued. And no one likes it when their ideas and hard work are commandeered by others to later be presented as their own.
As a petite woman, I find this situation exacerbated by my lack of size and stature. I notice this is also true for smaller men. However, the growing acceptance of video conferencing has really helped; on screen everyone looks relatively equal in size. It hasn't cut down on the interruptions, but it does make it somewhat easier to butt back into the discussion.
Finally, it's important for women to stand up when it's your idea and take the credit.
As a petite woman, I find this situation exacerbated by my lack of size and stature. I notice this is also true for smaller men. However, the growing acceptance of video conferencing has really helped; on screen everyone looks relatively equal in size. It hasn't cut down on the interruptions, but it does make it somewhat easier to butt back into the discussion.
Finally, it's important for women to stand up when it's your idea and take the credit.
9
Senator Harris was grandstanding and does not think the rules of decorum apply to her. It has nothing to do with her gender but her character.
4
I was an ergonomic consultant for 20 years, until employees didn't matter anymore. Now unemployed, retired, I observe the diminishment of my gender as if we never had a women's equality movement. I didn't experience interruption but working without getting credit for my work. Another phenomena of misogyny, taking something from a women that isn't yours because, hey, why not, its just a women. She isn't powerful enough to call me on it. Maybe men don't like our voices because its a limbic connection to the mother. The mother that tried to instruct a tiny little boy to become a better human being. In the case of John McCain, Richard Burr, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell its obvious the lessons didn't take.
6
Well, I speak out of both sides of my mouth. I'm male to female transgender and have experienced from each angle.
As a male, I would talk over any sex, not merely women. I know so much and just have to tell each person! Sure, right...
Now as female, I see how men casually interrupt me: I find it funny, affirming, and very weird. I am patient, but then I will finally stop, say nothing at all and make it an awkward silence, and make direct eye contact, and then finish. Refusal to literally talk shuts them down. I note that direct eye contact also does too. Men are not used to women being direct and women should use that advantage.
I teach in college and notice the guys overtalk the girls. I constantly tell the women to speak up, stop mumbling, to fight to have their voice be heard, to demand it. We need to teach public speaking for girls in school from the beginning. Rhetoric classes again!
As a male, I would talk over any sex, not merely women. I know so much and just have to tell each person! Sure, right...
Now as female, I see how men casually interrupt me: I find it funny, affirming, and very weird. I am patient, but then I will finally stop, say nothing at all and make it an awkward silence, and make direct eye contact, and then finish. Refusal to literally talk shuts them down. I note that direct eye contact also does too. Men are not used to women being direct and women should use that advantage.
I teach in college and notice the guys overtalk the girls. I constantly tell the women to speak up, stop mumbling, to fight to have their voice be heard, to demand it. We need to teach public speaking for girls in school from the beginning. Rhetoric classes again!
12
I was the only female in senior management in an IT department of an intellectual property law firm. My boss had no problem telling me to "shut up." Never once did he say that to a male. In meetings, though he would speak for 50 minutes of an hour-long meeting, rambling on and on, the staff acted like they were enchanted by every word that dropped from his lips. There were several times that I offered suggestions of my own in order to address a problem that was being discussed. Afterward, this man would call me into his office and tell me that I was a "mutineer." I also made sure that the people who worked for me were given regular breaks to eat and relax a bit, especially if we were putting in a 14-16 hour day, which was not unusual in IT. He screamed at me for "feeding" people and encouraging mutinous behavior. I worked on a long term project with another woman in the department. The job was done on time and done well, yet again he called me in to tell me that I'd had "too much fun" working on the project. After he threw me out of my chair by shaking it so vioently that I fell on the floor, I finally went to HR, where I was told by the HR director, a woman, that I was not enough of an "alpha female," and that all of these "complaints coming in from women" were a pain in the neck for her. My boss was spoken to, but the only thing that happened as a result of my complaint, was that I got fired.
9
Men are afraid of women. Always have been. Probably always will be. They bluster, and shove, and interrupt, and make fun, and sexually harass women to try to keep them from revealing men for what they really are. The inferior gender. Kamala Harris is my new hero. Glad I contributed to her campaign. She is a smart cookie--certainly smarter than the bumbling Keebler elf.
14
The art of asking questions is to get the witness to reveal what you want with little pressure in words the witness feels comfortable in using. However you judge Senators McCain and Burr for interrupting her, Senator Harris is not good at asking questions. She was badgering Attorney General Sessions trying to force him to use the words of her choosing, and that's poor technique. AG Sessions gave up plenty when he was simply allowed to speak.
3
And what about Widen? No badgering? I think what she was doing, was putting legitimate pressure on the Elf to get him to stop meandering around his answers and saying, "I don't remember." I thought it was a smart, effective tactic. It's a good way to keep people away from their planned responses and start digging into the truth. And she wasn't the only one who did this. She's very, very smart
2
I wonder whether Ms, Chira or, for that matter, many of the commenters actually watched the whole exchange at the Senate hearing. Senator Harris clearly deserved the reminder to allow General Sessions to finish his answers , before criticizing them for being incomplete.
3
In the mid-80's I served the Army in Yongsan, Seoul, Republic of Korea. A whole load of personal computers arrived and were being unpacked in the back yard of the office building. These objects were so strange they could have come from an alien world. Nobody knew what a C-drive was. Things finally started happening when our female civilian court reporter whispered her suggestions to the Sergeant Major, and he made the suggestions to the group. .
3
The Catalyst president's remark about women can be seen as either competent or liked but not both rings so true.
1
Thanks for publishing this piece, NYT, but saddening to see it, once again, as a necessity.
6
Our mothers taught us that it was bad manners for a gentleman to interrupt a lady. The senators who interrupted Tens. Warren and Harris have no manners.
5
Next time maybe Kamala Harris can be given John McCain' time, which is otherwise wasted by his incoherent rambling.
6
I'm so sick of this meme. I have found that interrupting is less about gender** and more about personality( i.e. are they garrulous, headstrong, excitable, disagreeable. etc). Girls succeed when given fewer opportunities for failure and I fail to see how telling a girl being interrupted (which is a FACT of life) is because the interrupter is a misogynist helps her at all. It just bums her out, misrepresents the interrupter, and gives her a scapegoat for her personal failings.
**besides, I thought we were past gender. ;)
**besides, I thought we were past gender. ;)
1
I think we all know from experience that life is more nuanced than this article suggests. If people want progress regarding gender relations, they are going to have to get a bit more real, and move beyond statements such as, "men do this" or "women do this". For instance, this article states that men interrupt women. A lot of people believe this. A lot of people also say things such as, "the woman is always right", or "she's gong to get her way in the end, so don't bother arguing'. We all know this - don't pretend. Also, I know from experience that there are women who appreciate having me explain things to them - I don't need to have this dynamic, but it is fine if they appreciate it. Some people feel supported and cared for this way. Ok, fine. On the contrary, we have the term "mansplaining", which is a derogatory gender-based term. Saying "he did this to me, she did this to me", is not going to really get us anywhere. Complaining is not the same as doing the real work of sorting out the subjective reactions we have to each other. Men and women have been complaining about each other for centuries - don't pretend that this in itself is progressive!
1
This problem in Congress is easy to solve, just elect more women than men. Since there are more adult woman than men in the US, this would be more representative of the US population. The effect would yield a majority of women on committees who could then start showing the men what it is like to be in the minority. A side benefit would likely be less rancor among the members.
4
Women, who are the majority in this country, have the power to do that very thing, yet have not done so.
Harris, much more than her colleagues, simply would not allow Sessions to answer. he was evading the questions from all her colleagues, not just her. She asked very good questions, but what good are those questions if she doesn't allow for answers?
If, let's say, HRC or another female witness had been treated by a male senator as Sessions was treated by Harris, he'd have --quite rightly--been pilloried for badgering the witness, and in fact making it impossible to get the information that the very good questions would seem to be seeking. She should not be exempt from the same standards of civility we expect of her male counterparts.
Harris, much more than her colleagues, simply would not allow Sessions to answer. he was evading the questions from all her colleagues, not just her. She asked very good questions, but what good are those questions if she doesn't allow for answers?
If, let's say, HRC or another female witness had been treated by a male senator as Sessions was treated by Harris, he'd have --quite rightly--been pilloried for badgering the witness, and in fact making it impossible to get the information that the very good questions would seem to be seeking. She should not be exempt from the same standards of civility we expect of her male counterparts.
2
As someone who has been in the minority and in the majority, living in different cultures, I can tell you that your desire to make men the minority is resentful, and not necessarily productive. There is also no evidence to support your assumption that women would do better.
This articles clearly shows how women add creative collaborative thinking and innovation to the bottom line, or "that's my idea" putdown philosophy espoused by cranky men, which American businesses and enterprises at all levels desperately need. It is well known that men are conformists and lie down for alpha dog types, and we have seen in spades what havoc this outlook wreaks in the political realm as the GOP men lie and kowtow to the absurd demands of Trump. We must have inclusion of women at 50% levels in all enterprises, or we are doomed as a country.
4
Part of the problem for a younger generation of females is that their mothers taught them to be confident, strong and independent/self-sufficient. However, they failed to teach their sons how to engage or in some cases, respectfully interact with such women.
11
Some of us only had daughters, so no opportunity to teach our sons. But I agree that I see more disrespect for young women from young men who apparently bought into some entitlement narrative from some parental unit or other authority figure.
3
Another thought if I may? Why would anyone think that Senator Harris needs defending? She is a professional politician, a former District Attorney, former Attorney General for the State of California. I would imagine that she has seen her share of aggressive speakers and opposing attorneys who have attempted to shut her down. Why would you think she needs help?
Is it possible that this entire article is a continuation of the frail, helpless women ethos? THIS women? Frail & Helpless? Really?
Is it possible that this entire article is a continuation of the frail, helpless women ethos? THIS women? Frail & Helpless? Really?
88
Why would you think this article is about defending or helping Ms.Harris? She clearly demonstrated that she is in no way frail and helpless. This article is about recognizing her strength and pointing out the value to our country of having more women like her in Congress, willing to ask tough questions in hearings and not submit to intimidation of the alpha dog President.
14
I'm amused by all the men posting comments that dismiss, question, and trivialize the piece. I didn't see any depiction of Sen. Harris there as frail, so, thanks but no thanks to your straw-man effort.
Your post nicely illustrates why we need the article. It's not for Sen. Harris (though I bet she, like everyone, welcomes validation of a frustrating experience). It's for a society where there are none so blind as those who will not see.
Your post nicely illustrates why we need the article. It's not for Sen. Harris (though I bet she, like everyone, welcomes validation of a frustrating experience). It's for a society where there are none so blind as those who will not see.
6
No one said Harris needs help. All women need relief from prejudice and improper aggression against them.
3
The view that men are interrupting women may well be so, but using the stupidity and self-service of female politicians as victims is ludicrous .
The phenomena of anyone interrupting provocateurs and stupid, antagonistic falsehoods such as the ones continuously advanced by Kamala Harris, democratic male members of the committee as well as Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren are a breath of fresh air. The fog of distortions and obfuscation has reached epic proportions and needs to be interrupted.
The media has inundated us all with enough biased coverage and interrupting either male, Schumer, Franken et al or equally self-serving females is at last being returned to the violence fomenting democrats by the republicans.
The phenomena of anyone interrupting provocateurs and stupid, antagonistic falsehoods such as the ones continuously advanced by Kamala Harris, democratic male members of the committee as well as Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren are a breath of fresh air. The fog of distortions and obfuscation has reached epic proportions and needs to be interrupted.
The media has inundated us all with enough biased coverage and interrupting either male, Schumer, Franken et al or equally self-serving females is at last being returned to the violence fomenting democrats by the republicans.
Women drifting out of their assigned lanes is troublesome to many. That also goes for those with an appearance that does not comport to lane they are seeking. You could argue that HRC was penalized in 2016 for drifting out of her lane in the early 1990's.
6
Far be it from me to argue the point men interrupt women more often then vice versa.
I do question the value of linking a non-quantifiable behavior like rudeness to gender - as of linking fitness for any sport to ethnicity.
I do question the value of linking a non-quantifiable behavior like rudeness to gender - as of linking fitness for any sport to ethnicity.
I am a man, and I have had many of my ideas seemingly ignored only to pop up as someone else's idea a short time later. This is a universal phenomenon and not just restricted to women. I finally decided to just accept my role as a seed planter. Now, when I want something done, I simply plant the thought in the person I think would most want to take credit for it and then wait.
2
Yep, happens all the time. And the best way to handle it, in a professional setting, is for other women (especially women in power) to insert themselves and say something like "Bill, I don't think Jane was finished with her statement" and then turn to Jane. Or for Jane, to simply say "Hold on Bill, I wasn't finished.") Too often women back down, for understandable reason, but for the dynamic to change we must be calm and assertive and complete our statements.
4
I don't doubt that this happens with regularity. But let me play devil's advocate for a moment. On occasion I have attempted to interject when a woman is speaking - in exactly the same way I would interject when a man is speaking and his point has been made - and find that the woman continues to speak, raising her voice defiantly. Is this a reasonable reaction to my "rudeness" or an overly sensitive overreaction on her part? Sometimes there is a natural give and take to conversation that includes occasional interruption. Just my (assuredly clueless) two bits on the matter.
3
That is an interesting question. It could be none of the above, but an expression of continuing frustration from being conditioned at a young age that what she says is not important. She might be bringing that personal experience to the table with you. I think if we all allow some leeway and do-overs, we can come to a communications understanding. But we all have to be self-aware, and we all have to want a change for the better.
I'd be curious to see a study of how many times men interrupt other men. I bet it is the same. Men are socialized to be aggressive if they want to be successful, so they jump right in without waiting their turn. I wonder if women who feel slighted when interrupted paid any attention when men were interrupted, or if they only noticed when it happened to them.
110
You might want to reread the article. They have done studies- Multiple studies, in fact- that show women interrupt, ignore and talk over women more than other men.
In a mixed-gender room men also consistently talk more than women. However, when asked later to judge who tallied more, the men far overestimated how much the women talked and underestimated how much men talked.
In a mixed-gender room men also consistently talk more than women. However, when asked later to judge who tallied more, the men far overestimated how much the women talked and underestimated how much men talked.
11
Totally agree, I get that this article is about one side of the issue, but it is actually just one-sided in the end. I would venture to add that plenty of men are unable to get a word in edgewise with women at times, whether in the business world or other parts of life.
3
Dave - every woman recognizes the hint, or not so subtle hint, of condescension by men who interrupt them. Women in the workplace jump right in too. But just as in this instance, only the women are chastised. Remember "She was warned. Nevertheless, she persisted."
6
Ms. Harris was one of the only questionnaires that refused to let Jeff Sessions attempt to squirm and evade answering a question during his testimony.
Sessions tried to hide behind executive privilege without the president having evoked it. He was in contempt of congress in all his refusals to answer direct questions.
Amusingly, he brought to mind Woody Allen's imitations of Blanche DuBois in Tennessee Williams's, A Streetcar Named Desire. Sessions' twitches, and memory failures with Southern flutters and demure blushes were truly farcical coming from a man who's supposed to be the embodiment of adherence to legal principals in the role of Attorney General.
Rather than interrupt Senator Harris, her colleagues should have voted their time to he to complete the questioning of this contemptuously evasive Southern racist snake who lied repeatedly during his confirmation hearings.
Sessions tried to hide behind executive privilege without the president having evoked it. He was in contempt of congress in all his refusals to answer direct questions.
Amusingly, he brought to mind Woody Allen's imitations of Blanche DuBois in Tennessee Williams's, A Streetcar Named Desire. Sessions' twitches, and memory failures with Southern flutters and demure blushes were truly farcical coming from a man who's supposed to be the embodiment of adherence to legal principals in the role of Attorney General.
Rather than interrupt Senator Harris, her colleagues should have voted their time to he to complete the questioning of this contemptuously evasive Southern racist snake who lied repeatedly during his confirmation hearings.
18
jwp-nyc:
Wow! I pay for the New York Times to get to read such brilliant comments as this. Some commenters are more talented than the Times staff.
Wow! I pay for the New York Times to get to read such brilliant comments as this. Some commenters are more talented than the Times staff.
3
This is why I am not so sure a woman can be elected president in my lifetime, and I'm only half a century old.
1
I must have been around 16 or 17 when I first came across this passage from H.L. Mencken’s “In Defense of Women.” There was something about it that lead me to reread it many times over the years. Looking at it again today, I have no doubt that ardent feminists will dismiss the passage out-of-hand as sentimental hogwash aimed at nothing more than denying women their legitimate rights. But even today -- many decades later -- it still appeals to me.
“It is the close of a busy and vexatious day -- say half past five or six o'clock of a winter afternoon. I have had a cocktail or two, and am stretched out on a divan in front of a fire, smoking. At the edge of the divan, close enough for me to reach her with my hands, sits a woman not too young, but still good-looking and well dressed -- above all, a woman with a soft, low-pitched, agreeable voice. As I snooze she talks - of anything, everything, all the things that women talk of: books, music, the play, men, other women. No politics. No business. No religion. No metaphysics. Nothing challenging and vexatious - but remember, she is intelligent; what she says is clearly expressed... Gradually I fall asleep -- but only for an instant... then to sleep again -- slowly and charmingly down that slippery hill of dreams. And then awake again, and then asleep again, and so on. I ask you seriously: could anything be more unutterably beautiful?”
“It is the close of a busy and vexatious day -- say half past five or six o'clock of a winter afternoon. I have had a cocktail or two, and am stretched out on a divan in front of a fire, smoking. At the edge of the divan, close enough for me to reach her with my hands, sits a woman not too young, but still good-looking and well dressed -- above all, a woman with a soft, low-pitched, agreeable voice. As I snooze she talks - of anything, everything, all the things that women talk of: books, music, the play, men, other women. No politics. No business. No religion. No metaphysics. Nothing challenging and vexatious - but remember, she is intelligent; what she says is clearly expressed... Gradually I fall asleep -- but only for an instant... then to sleep again -- slowly and charmingly down that slippery hill of dreams. And then awake again, and then asleep again, and so on. I ask you seriously: could anything be more unutterably beautiful?”
2
Beautiful writing. Incredibly sexist. You know us women- we don't talk about serious topics like men do. Also- the sound of our voices is more important than what we have to say.
Thanks a lot, Mencken.
Thanks a lot, Mencken.
4
@ A Stanton - I could make the same statement about my dog.
3
I'm sorry you believe that KN. I think the new militancy among women, no matter its accomplisments, is being achieved at a cost.
1
I think the interruptions backfired this time as it was obviously a delay tactic of male Senators trying to protect one of their own.
261
White male Senators trying to silence a brown female Senator.
2
Male Republican senators trying to protect one of their own.
4
That time, artificial selection trolled purposeful dialogue. Men! embrace equality; man up by manning down from time to time.
Both men and women talk over subordinates. Men tend to assume that all women are subordinate.
699
Only if you let them.
They don't do it during someone else's allotted time. And not from a Senator who was just sitting in on this committee like McCain was doing
True words have never been said.
2
Yep. We've all been there. In both social and professional settings, there are some men who routinely talk right over me and other women. It's beyond interrupting; it's like they don't even hear that a woman is talking, and just proceed to speak to each other, right past me. And I am no shrinking violet. It is worse for my colleagues who are less assertive by nature.
I have worked in the private sector, nonprofit, and academia, and it happens in all three, and with men who are enlightened and egalitarian and whom I would never describe as sexist. It is so ingrained as to be subconscious. It is a real problem.
I can't tell you how many times I've been astonished to see a women get cut off after about two minutes of talking (by the male boss saying, "We need to move on") only to have that same boss allow a man to drone on and on for ten minutes about nothing at all. It is a pattern, not an isolated incident.
I have worked in the private sector, nonprofit, and academia, and it happens in all three, and with men who are enlightened and egalitarian and whom I would never describe as sexist. It is so ingrained as to be subconscious. It is a real problem.
I can't tell you how many times I've been astonished to see a women get cut off after about two minutes of talking (by the male boss saying, "We need to move on") only to have that same boss allow a man to drone on and on for ten minutes about nothing at all. It is a pattern, not an isolated incident.
11
How timely! Just two days ago I was in a meeting and a male colleague attempted to silence me. About a year ago the same thing happened with the same colleague, but when I pushed back at him my male boss took me to task afterwards for engaging with him and escalating the situation. Since then my boss and I have had a few conversations about the culture and my perception that there was a double-standard for men and women in this regard. To my surprise, in this recent incident my boss intervened and said loudly, "Let her speak!". An hour or so after the meeting the colleague popped by my office to apologize. Like other workplace issues women who experience this should raise this issue as a concern.
16
Wow! A success story! I will make notes of this experience and try it myself. Thank you!
1
This has been my experience too - often the default unhelpful behavior is being carried out by people who would like to do the right thing if they were aware of it.
2
My wife chides me for this often. Still, I see it as more complex than just "men interrupting women". Enculturation has a lot to do with the phenomenon--and not just that many women are trained to let interrupting happen.
I think both sexes were traditionally trained differently in communication styles and techniques. And I've also seen "power grab" communication styles where authoritative--but aggressively wrong--men interrupt more passive men in meetings/discussions.
Given most Americans are trying to emerge from a patriarchal culture, though, the phenomenon still happens much more to women.
Overall, thoughtful discussion techniques are sadly lacking in this society. Sound bite interruptions, quips, and rebuttals are valued much more than they should be, and they result in adopting wrong solutions more often than is good for our Country in this complex, fast-paced world.
It comes down to a matter of appropriate public education. Schools need to teach skills both technical and communication as well as thoughtful reflective thinking and problem solving. Without this culture can't improve and Democracy won't survive.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson: We will be stuck wearing still the coat which fitted us when a youth as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of our interrupting ancestors.
I think both sexes were traditionally trained differently in communication styles and techniques. And I've also seen "power grab" communication styles where authoritative--but aggressively wrong--men interrupt more passive men in meetings/discussions.
Given most Americans are trying to emerge from a patriarchal culture, though, the phenomenon still happens much more to women.
Overall, thoughtful discussion techniques are sadly lacking in this society. Sound bite interruptions, quips, and rebuttals are valued much more than they should be, and they result in adopting wrong solutions more often than is good for our Country in this complex, fast-paced world.
It comes down to a matter of appropriate public education. Schools need to teach skills both technical and communication as well as thoughtful reflective thinking and problem solving. Without this culture can't improve and Democracy won't survive.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson: We will be stuck wearing still the coat which fitted us when a youth as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of our interrupting ancestors.
If your wife chides you about this often, perhaps you should listen?
1
I heard Senator Harris' questioning of Sessions. NO ONE is saying this:
Jeff Sessions intentionally spoke more slowly to her, drawing out irrelevant patches of information (that did not relate to her questions) to intentionally draw down her allotted minutes. The smirk on his face said it all. Nauseating.
Senator Harris was a consummate professional throughout, she never took the bait, and stayed on an even keel. She persisted and clearly articulated her questions.
As a woman who has seen this playbook for decades in the silicon valley, it is disheartening. But we will persist.
Jeff Sessions intentionally spoke more slowly to her, drawing out irrelevant patches of information (that did not relate to her questions) to intentionally draw down her allotted minutes. The smirk on his face said it all. Nauseating.
Senator Harris was a consummate professional throughout, she never took the bait, and stayed on an even keel. She persisted and clearly articulated her questions.
As a woman who has seen this playbook for decades in the silicon valley, it is disheartening. But we will persist.
47
Oh please, Kamala Harris was badgering the witness, talking over him and not letting him answer -- just as she had done earlier with Coats and Rogers. It was not helpful to the cause of getting any of these guys to tell the truth. Rather, it was a perfect example of a politician using a hearing to look "aggressive" or tough so that she could make TV hews. Not every anecdote supports the thesis here.
7
Did you see the footage comparing Harris's questions/Sessions meandering non-responses/McCain's aggressive "Let the witness answer!" to the IDENTICAL question asked by an old white man, followed by Sessions clear and cooperative answer and no comment from McCain? I did.
4
It sure seemed to me that Senator Harris exposed the criminality of Sessions for all to see.
2
While this has happened plenty in the workplace, lately I've been more struck by seeing this within my family. My own family -- in which most of the women have always worked -- has never viewed any subject as "male" or "female." Everyone debates politics, gets into history, art, food, whatever. My husband's family is a different matter. Until our generation, every single woman has been a stay-at-home mom with little to no interest in current affairs or anything "intellectual." As a result, if I try to join a political conversation my husband is always having to "vouch" for me by explaining that I do, maybe after all, have a legitimate point of view and some knowledge base. (He's the same age as me, with the same exact education.)
When I speak up anything I say is ignored or dismissed, and the conversation between the men moves on -- unless my husband says something like "wait, hold on, she just said something important." It is humiliating.
I find it truly bizarre until I stop to think about how much these men's views have been shaped by their own relationships with, and understanding of, women in their own lives. This is not meant as disrespect to stay-at-home moms; they can be plenty politically engaged, too, and not everyone needs to be into politics at all. It's just that these particular women are all more or less of a type (though query whether they started out that way!), and so there's some stark line-drawing going on that I'm just not used to.
When I speak up anything I say is ignored or dismissed, and the conversation between the men moves on -- unless my husband says something like "wait, hold on, she just said something important." It is humiliating.
I find it truly bizarre until I stop to think about how much these men's views have been shaped by their own relationships with, and understanding of, women in their own lives. This is not meant as disrespect to stay-at-home moms; they can be plenty politically engaged, too, and not everyone needs to be into politics at all. It's just that these particular women are all more or less of a type (though query whether they started out that way!), and so there's some stark line-drawing going on that I'm just not used to.
7
From misogyny (which is a big and much needed conversation) to the treatment of women by men - it all begins with the male's relationship with to his mother.
5
Yep.
1
Ever listen to radio call-ins? God forbid a man gets started; he will go on and on and on before getting to his question, if he even has one. There are a few women who do this, I guess, but it's usually a man.
6
What about an article on "The Universal Phenomenon of People of Both Genders Expecting the Other to Act More Like Theirs Does"? That would cover just about every interaction between men and women, wouldn't it?
4
Welcome to our world. This type of behavior is everywhere, in every profession. I believe the power to be heard is my responsibility as a women, as a person. This is a learned skillset which includes really listening-people tell you who they are-if you are listening-they tell you their preferences, biases, strengths and weaknesses. It is never enough to make my point, I must be able to communicate to be heard by the audience, one or many. I find this to be one of the most commonly requested business skills from employees I have mentored over time.
If we cannot be heard, it does not matter what we have to say. We do have the power to communicate differently.
If we cannot be heard, it does not matter what we have to say. We do have the power to communicate differently.
1
Often the woman's comment is followed by a quiet pause. Then the real powers resume the discussion.
19
Of course I have experienced this since I was a little girl. But I've evolved a means of dealing with it: 1) stand up when the male interruptor is sitting, and 2) speak louder, and 3) do not equivocate; speak directly and firmly, with confidence.
13
Senator Harris was a professional. She was prepared. She was there to get answers. She knew of her allotted time. What was the alternative? Be a smiley polite woman and let the man ramble on and waste the few minutes that she was given to do her job?
The real reason she was cut off is because she's a new member of the Senate and a woman. Two crimes against the good 'ole boys club. She got straight to the point without praising the AG's years in the senate and giving a shout out to the wife who joined him. In other words, she treated him like the witness that he was and not the old pal that he wasn't. How dare she? Well she did dare and those old cronies shut her down.
The real reason she was cut off is because she's a new member of the Senate and a woman. Two crimes against the good 'ole boys club. She got straight to the point without praising the AG's years in the senate and giving a shout out to the wife who joined him. In other words, she treated him like the witness that he was and not the old pal that he wasn't. How dare she? Well she did dare and those old cronies shut her down.
1747
Well-said, Sarah!!!
My bet is that Kamala Harris will have the [well-deserved] last word one day.
2
and she's black
1
I cringe daily when I try to watch "Morning Joe" and see how Joe treats Mikka, who is his fiance. Why is that OK with her or the network. NM
14
There are many angles to this subject. One is that often women talk tangentially to the subject at hand, making men, who are normally less patient, more so. Also, as a 71-year-old man I find myself interrupting people more because if they go on I'm going to forget what I wanted to say.
5
"Often the women talk tangentially to the subject at hand"
Really? More often than men? I strongly disagree.
And, interrupting people because you're otherwise, "going to forget what you wanted to say" is no excuse. When someone is talking, the other party, ideally, is listening, not thinking of a response.
Really? More often than men? I strongly disagree.
And, interrupting people because you're otherwise, "going to forget what you wanted to say" is no excuse. When someone is talking, the other party, ideally, is listening, not thinking of a response.
13
"At times, Senator Harris cut Mr. Sessions off..." Wait, isn't there a word meaning to cut someone off? "... but she spoke in an even tone." Meaning she wasn't..never mind.
7
If you view the footage, it is more than a little bit obvious that, when questioned by Harris, Sessions goes way off-topic, giving meandering non-responses, and perhaps intentionally ensuring that Harris's allotted time would be over before she had a chance to complete her questioning. Rather than becoming irate (as Sessions did at one point), Harris, calmly clarified her question and explained (woman-splained?) to Sessions explicitly what information she was seeking. Yes, she interrupted him in his nonsensical ramble to nowhere-ville. No, she was not at all hysterical or exhibiting any emotion whatsoever. You could consider watching the footage.
3
I grew up in the South.
Interrupting anyone is very rude. Talking over someone is behaving like a bulldozer.
New Yorkers--men and women--are among the worst.
It is arrogant and abrasive behavior.
Bring good manners back!
Interrupting anyone is very rude. Talking over someone is behaving like a bulldozer.
New Yorkers--men and women--are among the worst.
It is arrogant and abrasive behavior.
Bring good manners back!
7
Trumpus interruptus - these four lost years.
3
This may astound but I find that culturally this rudeness to women is not as prevalent in the South. I've never been in the corporate setting but professionally in education and in the social setting it is not such a problem. I had the care of my aged aunt and had to move here from South Carolina to Florida. On a visit to establish a doctor for her, she was just much unhappy with the physician's care and manner. I finally figured it out that he wasn't allowing her to talk but dominated the conversations. In reading the credentials of the staff I found this man was educated in Massachusetts but there was another doctor on board who was of the South and educated here. I made up some kind of acceptable social explanation and switched physicians. Well, that was it, she could now talk as much as she wanted and she wnted to a lot.
I'm so thankful I went to a women's college for one never ran into this problem excepting from a few male professors one from Harvard, in particular."I'm so surprised at you young women being well-informed. I expected to encounter ignorance." He had the wit to be jocular but it was astoundingly insulting. I do find some times, as I am the old lady now, when interrupted by the male of the species it's best to announce, "I'm talking now and have not given up the floor." life appears to be harder on males and it shows up in many areas, the most troubling being in the epidemic violence being done by a larger portion of American men than women.
I'm so thankful I went to a women's college for one never ran into this problem excepting from a few male professors one from Harvard, in particular."I'm so surprised at you young women being well-informed. I expected to encounter ignorance." He had the wit to be jocular but it was astoundingly insulting. I do find some times, as I am the old lady now, when interrupted by the male of the species it's best to announce, "I'm talking now and have not given up the floor." life appears to be harder on males and it shows up in many areas, the most troubling being in the epidemic violence being done by a larger portion of American men than women.
3
Sessions and McCain are not from the South?????
Tom McM
Tom McM
1
Why is it sexist to interrupt a liberal female speaker, and when a conservative speaker is shouted down, its free speech?
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
8
Neither is okay, but it isn't just "liberal female speakers" who are continually interrupted. It is women across the board - that was the point of the article - women on boards, women in business, women in college, girls in school. Mothers, daughters, wives, and sisters. It happens consistently regardless of context and content. But maybe you didn't want to read the whole article because it was a woman writing and you already knew what you had to say?
10
Because liberal male speakers were asking questions in the same manner as the female but they were not interrupted and chastised. This is also the second time it happened.
4
The Senator from CA did not protest at all. She is a trained prosecutor and prosecutors have their questions tacked down. She is very impressive and she took the male shutting down very cool and professional. Bruce1253: "You doth protest too much".
3
I thought the study “Can an Angry Woman Get Ahead?” that "concluded that men who became angry were rewarded, but that angry women were seen as incompetent and unworthy of power in the workplace." was perfectly validated by the recent election.
Hard to find an angrier man who was rewarded than Donald Trump.
And there was no doubt that a lot of people referred to Clinton as angry, strident, the b-word, unworthy of the power of the office.
Hard to find an angrier man who was rewarded than Donald Trump.
And there was no doubt that a lot of people referred to Clinton as angry, strident, the b-word, unworthy of the power of the office.
33
Hillary Clinton is tough and strong. No wonder she lost the election! Could it be that men are afraid of strong women? Perhaps they know that women are more intelligent than men? Certainly boys were easy to beat in school; in my experience, girls were always at the head of the class. This didn't change until during puberty, when the lessons started about being sweet and submissive , if you wanted boy friends. It wasn't smart to outsmart the boys in class, if you wanted to be invited to the dance. The lessons start long before college. Graduate school was like trying to survive in the jungle. Because, you see, women are tough competition.
2
Since Senators' question time was limited, and Sessions was hemming and hawing hoping to run out the clock for Kamala Harris, she was justified in pressing him to answer her questions. Somebody should have stepped in and said something when the obviously addlebrained McCain questioned Comey about why Comey wasn't pursuing Hillary Clinton's participation in the Russian collusion during the 2016 election (really John???)
14
Sorry, but it isn't men interrupting women; it's New Yorkers of all possible sexes interrupting anyone and everyone who's trying to get a word in edgewise.
Whenever anyone interrupts me while I am speaking, I tap my palm on the table or lap and say firmly, Let Me Finish, and then they shut up.
6
McCain questioned Comey at length (only Senator Burr spoke longer) making very little sense. He was not interrupted or cut off. Such an obvious display of power politics, sexism, favoritism with the senate allowing an old white man's senility but silencing a smart woman's cogent questioning. Richard Burr and John McCain should apologize.
1416
Excellent point.
1
Should apologize and resign. They are evidently too old to properly carry their duties in the Senate.
1
Not senility, I think. The rest of your comment is right on target. thanks
Its a conspiracy! I saw a group of men yesterday maniacally rubbing their hands together as a women entered the meeting, as if they were out to get her! *sarcasm*
Have you ever thought that your suggestion was just a bad idea? You really think Trump is behind it... paranoid much? How about the person who interrupted was just rude?
Lastly, All these CEO's, women included, didn't get to that position by being passive. Almost all high earning CEO's are ENTJs and ESTJs types. Fill a room full of them and the outcome will always be the same.
Have you ever thought that your suggestion was just a bad idea? You really think Trump is behind it... paranoid much? How about the person who interrupted was just rude?
Lastly, All these CEO's, women included, didn't get to that position by being passive. Almost all high earning CEO's are ENTJs and ESTJs types. Fill a room full of them and the outcome will always be the same.
3
I'm interrupted at work and otherwise. Solution? You firmly or loudly, if necessary, say: Let me finish. Case closed.
3
I read with both interest and dismay Susan Chirra’s excellent article, “Women Interrupted” in today’s Times. Then I read Jim Rutenberg’s “Mediator” essay, “Kelly’s High-Wire Act”, about Megyn Kelly’s coming television interview of Alex Jones, a prominent conspiracy theorist. I urge your readers to read both pieces, and then ask themselves: Would the interview of a conspiracy theorist have drawn such outrage and loss of sponsors were the interviewer’s first name “Michael” instead of “Megyn”?
3
Men ignoring or talking over women is a time-proven control tactic. But what I found interesting is that this article does not mention the recent research that shows that women-led companies are doing better in the marketplace. Could it be that when people stop worrying about controlling others and instead listen to them in case they have something legitimate to say, everyone prospers?
http://fortune.com/2015/03/03/women-led-companies-perform-three-times-be...
http://fortune.com/2015/03/03/women-led-companies-perform-three-times-be...
14
Women - led companies are doing better than male - led firms. Women are better drivers. Women are better at investing. Women are smarter. Women are nicer. Women, apparently, are better at everything than those dirty, stupid, interrupting men.
The only reason women aren't submitting patents, running NASA, Silicon Valley, and Wall St is because of the Great Sexist Conspiracy (to only hire people who show up with the proper credentials).
Once men accept that reality, that all we have is unearned privilege bestowed on us, that we must relinquish - or have it forced on us via government coercion - we all be a lot more equal, I'm sure.
The only reason women aren't submitting patents, running NASA, Silicon Valley, and Wall St is because of the Great Sexist Conspiracy (to only hire people who show up with the proper credentials).
Once men accept that reality, that all we have is unearned privilege bestowed on us, that we must relinquish - or have it forced on us via government coercion - we all be a lot more equal, I'm sure.
Ms. Harris is not a shrinking violet. She was the California AG and a prosecutor. The real problem with the Harris/Committe exchange is the 7-minute rule. The Committee is not a courtroom. So, Ms. Harris would have to take account of that, change her style, etc. Mr. Sessions may have been dithering, even dithering deliberately, but sometimes Committees do not get answers. People like Mr. Mueller might, and then their work plays out in a real courtroom without a 7-minute rule. But the most you will get is useless innuendo if you keep interrupting a witness.
2
Lawrence: Another armchair quarterback. Try to handle yourself as well as SEN Harris.
2
Senators and Representatives often badger witnesses in rapid-fire fashion. Witnesses sometimes protest and ask to be allowed time to answer while the questioners remind the witness that their time is limited. This is exactly what happened here. The Senator shot questions out like a prosecutor playing to the jury, or public, speaking over the answers. The witness complained and other Senators, including the Chair, jumped in. I listened and there was nothing unusual in this exchange. Your reporters could find it repeated endless times in hearing transcripts, whatever the genders involved.
It is undeniable that women suffer more interruptions by men in many settings. But all the evidence indicates that this is NOT what happened here. The interventions were normal in this setting given the Senator's unwillingness to let the witness answer.
Just as the real problem of police misconduct toward African Americans does not justify the lie that Michael Brown was shot with his hands up rather than in the act of his second attack on a policeman...the issue of women being interrupted inappropriately does not mean that is what happened here. These false narratives undermine real efforts to fix problems. The NYT's continued repetition of false narratives about Michael Brown continues to fuel denials of real problems. I hope the NYT won't make the same mistake with this case or the efforts to address the real problem of men interrupting women will be set back
It is undeniable that women suffer more interruptions by men in many settings. But all the evidence indicates that this is NOT what happened here. The interventions were normal in this setting given the Senator's unwillingness to let the witness answer.
Just as the real problem of police misconduct toward African Americans does not justify the lie that Michael Brown was shot with his hands up rather than in the act of his second attack on a policeman...the issue of women being interrupted inappropriately does not mean that is what happened here. These false narratives undermine real efforts to fix problems. The NYT's continued repetition of false narratives about Michael Brown continues to fuel denials of real problems. I hope the NYT won't make the same mistake with this case or the efforts to address the real problem of men interrupting women will be set back
6
Frankly, it isn't really about being interrupted in the case of Ms. Harris. What was important was the point that she was trying to make and that she was not allowed to make: was there a written policy regarding withholding information about the conversations with the president. And if there was, why didn't Sessions read it before the hearing? This was an important point.
I'm often interrupted by men in meetings even when I've spoken very little and have a very relevant point to make. My response is to slightly raise my voice (I"m soft-spoken) and say 'excuse me, can I please finish my point?' That usually stops them, makes the point that they are interrupting me and puts them on notice. I feel like I have been able to help younger women with this response by bringing the interrupting behavior to light.
I'm often interrupted by men in meetings even when I've spoken very little and have a very relevant point to make. My response is to slightly raise my voice (I"m soft-spoken) and say 'excuse me, can I please finish my point?' That usually stops them, makes the point that they are interrupting me and puts them on notice. I feel like I have been able to help younger women with this response by bringing the interrupting behavior to light.
18
Anyone who ever spent/wasted time listening to Trey Gowdy badger a witness in his infamous Clinton EMail Hearings should be appalled by what McCain did to Kamala Harris and what McConnell did to Elizabeth Warren.
827
How about the way Betsy DeVos was treated by the Democrats????? Does that count? I guess not since she is a Republican and that double standard never dies.
ALB, I have been thinking the same thing myself. The way they badgered Hillary Clinton was atrocious.
2
440 readers agree that one person's bad behavior justifies other people's bad behavior. I'm praying for everyone when I read this, especially our children who are being raised on this sort of ethical and moral relativism.
any objective observer would conclude beyond a doubt that ms. harris was rude by constantly interrupting mr. sessions. i say this as a liberal democrat who voted for her. to avoid this in the future, witnesses should be given the privilege of an uninterrupted 30 seconds to answer a question. as was the case sometimes with mr. sessions, it is not uncommon for a witness to give long and rambling answers, thus using up the committee member's allotted 5 minute questioning time. in summary, ms. harris was out of order and this had nothing to do with her gender.
7
I watched the same exchange you describe, sir. I also watched as several male senators interrupted AG Sessions without being condescendingly told to let Sessions speak. (Or being told they were rude by misguided NYT commenters.) Sen. Harris "interrupted" because Sessions was avoiding a direct answer and trying to run out the clock. I also voted for Sen. Harris and believe we will need her doggedness and that of other elected representatives who want truth and honesty from Trump's appointees. So-called rudeness is the least of our problems.
23
Considering how openly Sessions avoided answering the questions Harris asked and tried to run out the clock, Senator Harris was remarkably polite and restrained. The fact that you call her "rude" and accuse her of "interrupting" is typical of sexist men who accuse women of interrupting when they are, in fact, the ones being interrupted. Regardless of what you may be telling herself, your opinion of her has everything to do with her gender.
2
But, Mr. Murphy, she was no ruder than the male senators who had questioned him in a similar fashion, trying to reclaim their allotted time. Were they interrupted and chastised?
3
Kamala Harris has just moved from the triple-A league where she was a powerful insider, to the majors, where she is a rookie. For a rookie she did OK, but the veterans made her work for it. Would it have been any different if she were a man? Do the people complaining about this consider her junior status and lack of experience at this level?
Do the men treat Diane Feinstein or Nancy Pelosi that way?
Do the men treat Diane Feinstein or Nancy Pelosi that way?
3
I object to Ms Harris being called a rookie. When you stand for the right things, and are elected to a higher office, "a breath of fresh air" might be the appropriate metaphor. She is also a veteran prosecutor and her questions and comments in the hearings have been very much to the point.
3
They treated Elizabeth Warren the same way. Plus, lack of experience is no excuse to selectively be rude to her. The other part of your questions is, would they treat a male junior senator this way? I doubt it. And there is your double standard.
They certainly are not treating Trump that way, who moved from zero-A to the majors.
They certainly are not treating Trump that way, who moved from zero-A to the majors.
4
Men talking over women doesn't just happen at the conference table. It happens on television, on dates, at the dinner table, on the playground. It is particularly ironic that Sen. McCain shushed Ms. Harris as his own questions in the Comey hearings were completely incoherent. No one seemed to shush him and Mr. Comey tried to answer them politely as best he could. None of these men seemed to take Ms. Harris as an equal.
58
What most people realize is that Kamala Harris was interrupted not because she's a woman, but because she wouldn't let Jeff Sessions answer her questions. As a former prosecutor, that's her style, which whether employed by a man or woman, is badgering. So the other senators were entirely in their right to try and restore the Q&A to some semblance of civility. If she were a man, I would have hoped for the same.
7
Compare other male senators who talk over witnesses, and see who often they are cut off by the chair.
10
You mean she wouldn't let Jeff Sessions evade her questions. If he had actually answered them, there wouldn't have been a problem.
2
I Disagree. He was willfully refusing to answer the question she asked numerous times. Had he answered the question, she wouldnt have had to keep repeating. There was no need to hear his word vomit avoiding the key question.
4
I find the comments as interesting as the article. There are several male commentators who feel Ms. Harris was badgering AG Sessions - not surprisingly. Although they will not admit it - men accept this kind of intense, pointed, and impassioned inquiry from another male with no questions what-so-ever. Women of my generation were - in fact -told that you had to adopt such behaviors to succeed "in a man's world" (I'm a baby boomer). This will continue to be an issue as long as men believe it is their privilege and prerogative to lead.
I have a friend (female, attorney) who said, about 20 years ago, that this country would sooner elect a black male as president versus a woman...I think that statement still holds true.
I have a friend (female, attorney) who said, about 20 years ago, that this country would sooner elect a black male as president versus a woman...I think that statement still holds true.
67
You could tell by Session's expressions that he was afraid of her questions and was purposely drawing his answers out to run out the clock on her. As a skilled prosecutor she did what she had to to try to get an answers to her questions. Had she let him "finish his answer" he would have droned on for seven minutes saying nothing of any value to the investigation.
8
And they would sooner elect an utterly incompetent, blatantly licentious male fraudster/tax evader versus a qualified woman with a stellar resume.
4
It is no one's privilege and prerogative to lead. Leadership is not something that is given (unless you inherit a bunch of money); you take it or do without.
As a society we lavish too many perks on leaders, which causes many of the wrong people to become leaders.
Your friend was apparently right, although this last debacle was not what you'd call ordinary reality. If Clinton had said "I was the boss at State: the email policy was what I say it was" she'd be president now."
As a society we lavish too many perks on leaders, which causes many of the wrong people to become leaders.
Your friend was apparently right, although this last debacle was not what you'd call ordinary reality. If Clinton had said "I was the boss at State: the email policy was what I say it was" she'd be president now."
Being interrupted in conversation is a characteristic of American social interaction by men and by women.Too many of us do not listen and in many socail situations there is someone who will not let others get a word in edgewise. It is truly delightful to have a balanced intelligent conversation with another person where the thoughts are expressed completely without interruption followed by a pause and both really listen to the other person.
9
You can't just remove gender from the equation and say, "Well, everybody does it!" This ignores many studies that have been done that show that gender does, indeed, come into play in conversations between men and women.
2
I imagine some people of both sexes are more sensitive to being interrupted than others. In my family growing up, we had very lively dinner conversations and we all interrupted each other a lot. It wasn't offensive, it was fun. As an adult out in the world, I have to hold my impulses in check so as not to seem rude. But in situations where everyone's doing it, it's no big deal. It drives me nuts when people give long sonorous speeches and I think I know where they're going but they're taking forever to get there. Maybe everyone should talk less, or more economically!
8
Unfortunately, a study done about the Supreme Court showed exactly the same occurrences. The female justices were interrupted at a much higher rate by the men, than their male colleagues. I have noticed that many people do not like to listen. They are so intent on making their points, that they talk over other people, and do not absorb anything coming at them. We need to try reinforcing rules of common courtesy, where each person has a chance to speak, and be actively heard. Active hearing includes actually listening and digesting the information, not just nodding while your mind is a thousand miles away. Maybe we could have a better understanding of differing perspectives if active listening was actively practiced.
9
I am a man who is guilty of interrupting but I do not discriminate by gender - I know I have to control my interruptions.
However, based on 30 years of work in libraries (a female dominated profession), I can attest that everything written in this article is true. Women are interrupted even if they are the majority in a meeting and not only by men. In addition to gender one has also take into account power position, personality, attention seeking and more.
This situation will go on for some time, especially in institutions and occupations where men have the majority power positions.
However, based on 30 years of work in libraries (a female dominated profession), I can attest that everything written in this article is true. Women are interrupted even if they are the majority in a meeting and not only by men. In addition to gender one has also take into account power position, personality, attention seeking and more.
This situation will go on for some time, especially in institutions and occupations where men have the majority power positions.
12
As a woman in business, years ago I read Deborah Tannen's work on this topic. I decided I would not allow myself to be interrupted. I would carefully watch my contributions in business or volunteer board meetings to make certain I was not speaking more than others and always adding something new, not repeating something already said. But when a man would start to talk over me in a meeting, I would just continue to talk, in a calm voice, until he stopped. For this, I was considered -- and called -- "opinionated", "outspoken," even "difficult." But they would acknowledge I was smart and strategic. As most professional women know, it's a no-win situation.
45
I wish one of the senators had admonished Sessions to start taking notes, like Comey did, so the next time (and there is likely to be a next time) he's asked about meetings and conversations he can't say, "I don't remember."
24
A story about Notes: An attorney I worked with for 13 years on the 2nd shift of a 24/7 law firm loved to tell this story - He dictated to his secretary for about two hours. She then transcribed her notes. After he read them, he called her in and laughing said, You typed that the car was going 600 miles an hour. Her response was Thats What Was In My Notes.
Being interrupted and/or having one's comment ignored is so common as to be normal in many situations. Gets worse as you get older. A woman I know who was often asked to chair meetings for serious and difficult to resolve meetings, had a response to the issue of a woman's comments being ignored. She would say after man had essentially said the same thing a couple of minutes later, "Yes, that is is good point, as it was when Ms. XYX brought it up a few moments ago. Shall we discuss it further?" She would then turn to the woman in question and ask her if she had additional thoughts on the issue. It was a wonder to behold!!
96
What a great response!
2
Curiously, in private conversation, women are often accused of interrupting and talking over. Having just spent a week hiking within a group of five women, I can attest that there were many times when I (an introvert) was not allowed a word edgewise. I often see men shut down and withdraw in private conversations, and the wives take over. I'm not sure if there is a public / private trade-off, but I suspect many women are very influential in private.
15
Being influential in private is not relevant. We all hope and expect our private lives to afford us influence and respect for our opinion and concerns with persons we have close relationships with, else why be in said relationship. It is the public sphere where the issue matters, in the work place, when we're dealing with matters of commerce, healthcare, legal situations etc. Cultural anthropologists have long noted the private influence women often wield in cultures that afford less or no real public power. Fine to note it, but that will not pay the bills and keep the lights on. The private is the political and the public is the real point.
2
In a scene from the best horror movie EVER made - THE HAUNTING, 1963, one male character says to another male character: Theres only one way to argue with a woman, doc. Dont.
I would add to this thread that it's not only women in a field of men who are interrupted. As a short, congenital right arm and leg amputee, I am constantly interrupted by work colleagues who ostensibly appear "normal." These colleagues are not limited to any specific gender, ethnicity, or race. In my experience,.people who fit the archetype of any group feel emboldened to interrupt or marginalize those who look different, even though they may be unaware they are doing it. I think it would strengthen their argument if women acknowledged they are not the only ones in this boat.
22
Rocket J Squirrel said "I think it would strengthen their argument if women acknowledged they are not the only ones in this boat."
Consider it acknowledged. As a woman engineer who has dealt with this stuff for decades, let me just say that the minute the local dynamics change for women, it becomes a much smaller step to include other groups as well. I noticed that the jostling for dominance faded - that helped everyone.
Consider it acknowledged. As a woman engineer who has dealt with this stuff for decades, let me just say that the minute the local dynamics change for women, it becomes a much smaller step to include other groups as well. I noticed that the jostling for dominance faded - that helped everyone.
1
Mothers and Fathers:
From a young age --
Teach your sons to respect women and never to interrupt them. Teach them how to properly engage in debate and conversation. Teach them that all people deserve respect and that their voice to be heard. Teach them bullying and intimidation are never appropriate. Teach them to call out such behaviors when they see them. Teach them to stand up for girls and women and never to demean them.
Teach your daughters not to accept being interrupted or "mansplained". Teach them to stand up for themselves and to call out people who engage in these behaviors. Teach them their opinions matter and that their feelings are always valid. Teach them to call out bullies, mansplainers, or interrupters. Teach them to hold their head high and to never be afraid to speak up for themselves.
Too many parents do not do these seemingly basic things.
Change cannot happen unless parents no longer reinforce negative behaviors from boys.
From a young age --
Teach your sons to respect women and never to interrupt them. Teach them how to properly engage in debate and conversation. Teach them that all people deserve respect and that their voice to be heard. Teach them bullying and intimidation are never appropriate. Teach them to call out such behaviors when they see them. Teach them to stand up for girls and women and never to demean them.
Teach your daughters not to accept being interrupted or "mansplained". Teach them to stand up for themselves and to call out people who engage in these behaviors. Teach them their opinions matter and that their feelings are always valid. Teach them to call out bullies, mansplainers, or interrupters. Teach them to hold their head high and to never be afraid to speak up for themselves.
Too many parents do not do these seemingly basic things.
Change cannot happen unless parents no longer reinforce negative behaviors from boys.
44
Kamala Harris has no room to talk on interruptions. She's very good at it herself.
I've seen men interrupt women, but I've seen the reverse too. I don't measure my interruptions by the sex of whom I'm speaking with, but how long-winded they are.
I've seen men interrupt women, but I've seen the reverse too. I don't measure my interruptions by the sex of whom I'm speaking with, but how long-winded they are.
158
Yes, but when the men keep talking after being interrupted they are not called "hysterical". That's the point.
46
That may well be because you are male. You don't have to notice it. All prosecutors are good at aggressive speech.
7
I actually agree with you to a fair extent. Women get the short end of the stick in that they're criticized whether they are aggressive or passive. "Polite but assertive" is a much narrower space for a woman in business, at least in my experience while men are given more latitude. It's something that should be fixed.
And while we're at it, we should fix the discrepancy between male and female business attire. Yesterday, I got to sweat buckets in my suit in NYC while my female colleague could wear a knee-length skirt, sandals, and a sleeveless blouse and still be considered professionally attired.
And while we're at it, we should fix the discrepancy between male and female business attire. Yesterday, I got to sweat buckets in my suit in NYC while my female colleague could wear a knee-length skirt, sandals, and a sleeveless blouse and still be considered professionally attired.
Where do I begin? My 26 years of working in the pharmaceutical industry taught me that meetings with men either ended with my being 'shushed' or having them steal my ideas and then present them as their own. I couldn't win, even though I was better educated and way more experienced than these Neanderthals.
39
Husbands and brothers also interrupt, and if you get annoyed, you're "over-reacting". It starts early; I have a video of three year olds at a birthday party. The guest of honor was a little girl, and when it was time to blow out the candles, the little boy sitting next to her jumped up, shoved her aside, and blew them out himself. No adult in the room interfered or reprimanded him.
50
I think a lot of it is generational. I've been in few leadership positions at my age, but when I have, I have valued competence above all else. I have found my female colleagues to be just as talented and hard working as their counterparts. As a man in my 20's I hope things look a lot different when my generation is running the show!
12
One way to combat this phenomenon is for other men and women in the room to ask to revisit what the woman was saying before she was interrupted. For example, "Let's take a second to go back and hear what ______ was saying. It sounded like she had some interesting thoughts, but didn't get the chance to finish expressing them."
13
Interrupted by guys or sliced up by women? Choose your poison.
And just keep standing up for yourself, as often as you need to. Life ain*t easy. It never was.
I have never found, in situations with a majority of other women, that the environment was more supportive, congenial or fair. Women in power are just as ready to try to squash their subordinates as the guys are, and with viciousness rather than good old male condescension.
Good people are good people, and bad people are bad, and social dynamics bring out the bad a lot more than the good..
And just keep standing up for yourself, as often as you need to. Life ain*t easy. It never was.
I have never found, in situations with a majority of other women, that the environment was more supportive, congenial or fair. Women in power are just as ready to try to squash their subordinates as the guys are, and with viciousness rather than good old male condescension.
Good people are good people, and bad people are bad, and social dynamics bring out the bad a lot more than the good..
5
I know a few lady lawyers in NYC, solo practitioners, if they were ever 'talked-over,' it was a suicidal act by the over-talker, psychologically speaking. One was formerly a school teacher from hell, south Bronx anyway, who by force of personality was able to quiet a lunchroom in south Bronx (I encouraged her career change to law), and the other a wheeler dealer swash buckler in real estate,
The uber guy who said - 'more fem / more fem chatter' - I wonder if this is empirically true, I expect it is, particularly if a single woman can be 'over-talked' but when there are more than one, such behavior is harder-
and so this is empirically true, but - facts we don't need no stinkin' facts-
and so hari kiri (oops cultural;appropriation maybe auto da fe, oops cultural appropriation) -- certainly seems a case of denial and over reaction,
and if THIS minuscule micro aggression sexism, fatal to employment, is um over casual chatter, his and hers, well I think we are a pretty enlightened society to not have REAL gender issues to attend to.
Of course zero tolerance in the work place is fine, when we agree with it, but in the streets where our cops are, not so much, when we disagree with it
=
BTW the uber/under guy did not by report interrupt anyone, even as the posters here react, in effect, off-topic, with their own unrelated agita
=
Further, since 'air time' (or band width) is finite, more fem chatter is less male chatter , so WHO is being shut down now?
/snark off
The uber guy who said - 'more fem / more fem chatter' - I wonder if this is empirically true, I expect it is, particularly if a single woman can be 'over-talked' but when there are more than one, such behavior is harder-
and so this is empirically true, but - facts we don't need no stinkin' facts-
and so hari kiri (oops cultural;appropriation maybe auto da fe, oops cultural appropriation) -- certainly seems a case of denial and over reaction,
and if THIS minuscule micro aggression sexism, fatal to employment, is um over casual chatter, his and hers, well I think we are a pretty enlightened society to not have REAL gender issues to attend to.
Of course zero tolerance in the work place is fine, when we agree with it, but in the streets where our cops are, not so much, when we disagree with it
=
BTW the uber/under guy did not by report interrupt anyone, even as the posters here react, in effect, off-topic, with their own unrelated agita
=
Further, since 'air time' (or band width) is finite, more fem chatter is less male chatter , so WHO is being shut down now?
/snark off
2
I was in a graduate school class consisting of 4 men, 3 women. We women would constantly be interrupted and/or shut down by our male classmates, while they went on and on about what they knew and thought about the topic. It got to the point where even our teacher, a man, noticed it and brought it to the class's attention, asking that we all listen to each other. I wish I could say that things got better, but I don't believe they did.
Just yesterday I asked my boss if we could have a brief discussion about a project he asked me to do. He couldn't be bothered to talk about it or my thoughts on it -- instead he sent it on directly to another person who would "get it done smoothly" without discussion or question. After 7 years of excellent services, he still frequently disrespects and dismisses what I have to say. (Perhaps it's time to go!)
Just yesterday I asked my boss if we could have a brief discussion about a project he asked me to do. He couldn't be bothered to talk about it or my thoughts on it -- instead he sent it on directly to another person who would "get it done smoothly" without discussion or question. After 7 years of excellent services, he still frequently disrespects and dismisses what I have to say. (Perhaps it's time to go!)
23
When I worked for the state of MI, I made the mistake of offering suggestions for my team in a one-on-one with my boss. Sure enough, he took credit for the ideas later in a staff meeting. But I agree with the commenter who said men talk over each other too. There was a LOT of that in my old workplace. So glad to have retired from that soul-sucking environment.
7
"Here's all you need to know about men and women. Women are crazy and men are stupid. And the reason that women are crazy is because men are stupid.'
George Carlin
George Carlin
2
The Senate is an Old Boy's Club of the worst possible iteration. Nothing will change until more women are elected and hold power in the public sphere. We must encourage, support and prioritize the election of women to higher public office. Women candidates must be actively recruited. They must receive robust financial campaign support. They must be elected.
18
I am 26 years old -- i've been graduated from college for 4 years now and in the two jobs i've had (in technology), I have been talked over by men rampantly. In my second position, I excelled quickly and found that the men on my team were even more likely to talk over and interrupt me. I've discussed this issue with a friend in another industry (electrical engineering) and she has expressed the same sentiment.
When will women in all industries finally be understood as intelligent and competent?
When will women in all industries finally be understood as intelligent and competent?
21
Women appear to increasingly derive much power from assertions of victimization induced by misogyny. Are you aware that young men are also talked over and even punished for expressing solidly-formed views to the extent that such behaviors are viewed as expressions of ambition that may threaten existing leadership? This happens to men, all the time. That is also happens to young women in the same positions and circumstances, is perhaps, not surprising. All to say, you would do better to reach out to both men and women in your cohort to develop strategies, rather than appealing to victim hood and plaintively disclaiming that you would only wish that old white men would believe women may be intelligent. Focusing on the latter, both encourages mediocrity and begs for affirmative action; in particular, I have witnessed people who are not particularly skilled in their work and who poorly express thoughts focus their energies on how they were wronged by some prejudice outside of their control, rather than turning their energies towards improving their skillfulness.
1
How a woman can vote for a republican is mind boggling.
43
...she persists!
13
I thought Barbara Boxer was bad, and now we got Kamala Harris who brings self-righteousness and rudeness and ineffectiveness to new levels. Both she and Sessions were horrible to watch, so let's be gender neutral and call "grand-standing" "grand-standing." It's so sad how bitter and awful they all are in Washington, on both sides. (I'm sure I'll get politically correct responses to this, because God forbid anyone call a spade a spade about how completely uninterested she was in getting Sessions' testimony).
5
Let's not forget how Mitch McConnell shut down Elizabeth Warren on the Senate floor when she was quoting Coretta Scott King.
48
Every time a man interrupts me, regardless of the format, I call it out politely. if it continues, I have a more assertive conversation. I can't make anyone change, but I will advocate for myself. Everyone should do the same.
Women must stop accepting this - only to fume silently. Silence become complicity.
And men, just cut it out. It's obnoxious. If you're an interrupter, you're boring.
Women must stop accepting this - only to fume silently. Silence become complicity.
And men, just cut it out. It's obnoxious. If you're an interrupter, you're boring.
1160
I agree with you in theory, but the reality is that if you are a woman, you are likely not the person in charge. Without power, you sometimes have no choice but to fume silently.
1
Personally I find fuming silently very spiritual, almost like an unzen moment. Often the negative space is more interesting than the positive after awhile and in the proper context. All this obsession about dividing things into good and evil ends up throwing half of everything away.
Good for you. More people (men and women both) need to learn to stand up for themselves calmly but firmly, rather than slinking away while their BP levels go through the roof.
Ms. Harris was being rude and badgering the witnesses in question. This transcends gender and speaks to character. It is so feeble and so pathetic to hide behind charges of sexism when you get called out for being a jerk.
7
Senator Harris caught Sessions in the middle of his contempt of Congress. When this matter evolves, he will be receiving a penalty of some sort.
2
I'ts not just men interrupting you when you are a woman. It's really about who is in control of the narrative.
14
This gets to the heart of the issue. The interruptions are meant to control the narrative, and we need to remember that - particularly in the context of these senatorial hearings. This should be a NYT "pick."
1
This is one of the most timely articles the Times has ever published. Thank you!
Kamala Harris is one of the best treasures the Senate has right now, when our nation needs a searching look at wrongdoing at the highest levels of government. She's a one-person adjudicator and should be left free to lead witnesses through her expert grilling. Many others should cede their time. Especially the GOP; they might learn a thing or two!
It made my teeth clench to see her cut off from a very productive line of questioning, while her male disrupters threw Sessions a lifeline he didn't deserve.
Literally in the middle of the night I was thinking about this. Thinking we need to rise up and confront this. We can't let it happen again!
We need a plan, ladies! I'm sick of this! Especially when our nation is in the midst of a battle for soul of our Democracy. And we have such an advocate as Kamala Harris!
Go for it, Senator Harris!
Kamala Harris is one of the best treasures the Senate has right now, when our nation needs a searching look at wrongdoing at the highest levels of government. She's a one-person adjudicator and should be left free to lead witnesses through her expert grilling. Many others should cede their time. Especially the GOP; they might learn a thing or two!
It made my teeth clench to see her cut off from a very productive line of questioning, while her male disrupters threw Sessions a lifeline he didn't deserve.
Literally in the middle of the night I was thinking about this. Thinking we need to rise up and confront this. We can't let it happen again!
We need a plan, ladies! I'm sick of this! Especially when our nation is in the midst of a battle for soul of our Democracy. And we have such an advocate as Kamala Harris!
Go for it, Senator Harris!
48
This may be news for some people, but there are also men who mansplain to other men. Particularly if their "targets" are given to thinking before answering, or are not trying to speak over everyone else. You know, behaving kind of like women.
3
Well, the story doesn't exactly match the headline: only corporate examples, more anecdotal than I'd like. I put that to quick and dirty writing. It is true: women get shut down. Equally true: it's not fair, it's not just, and it's depriving us of half our leadership.
3
A great approach used by women in the previous Administration:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/09/13/white-house-...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/09/13/white-house-...
That's all very interesting, Ms. Chira, but let me tell you MY thoughts on this...
3
How about women in positions of greater authority (either real or perceived) interrupting other women?
This article seems to be a backdoor attempt to defend Kamela Harris.
Senator Kamala Harris, Democrat of California, being interrupted for the second time in a week by her male colleagues —
She seems to think that since she was elected to congress that she and she alone has the right to speak. Listening to her rage on in the way she questioned the witness at the hearings was not only disrespectful but outright rude.
We all know, every congressman loves to hear themselves talk, on average it takes them five minutes of patting themselves on their backs before they ask a question that takes 30 seconds at best. That said, at least both male and females questioners give the witness the courtesy of answering the question. Kamala does not! She needs to be called out more frequently until she learns the rules of a discussion.
Kamala, please ask D Feinstein on how to act in congress.
Senator Kamala Harris, Democrat of California, being interrupted for the second time in a week by her male colleagues —
She seems to think that since she was elected to congress that she and she alone has the right to speak. Listening to her rage on in the way she questioned the witness at the hearings was not only disrespectful but outright rude.
We all know, every congressman loves to hear themselves talk, on average it takes them five minutes of patting themselves on their backs before they ask a question that takes 30 seconds at best. That said, at least both male and females questioners give the witness the courtesy of answering the question. Kamala does not! She needs to be called out more frequently until she learns the rules of a discussion.
Kamala, please ask D Feinstein on how to act in congress.
3
When he said they discussed the policy. He had finished answering the question....those were many words for "NO".
She was doing her job. He was being rude by unduly taking time of the clock.
She was doing her job. He was being rude by unduly taking time of the clock.
1
Senator Harris had to cut Sessions off whenever he went off target, and tried to shift the focus away from her question. He did this all the time since he did not want to answer her question. She did say a simple "yes" or "no" would suffice.
Senator Harris did a terrific job!
Senator Harris did a terrific job!
41
If I had a dollar for every time my boss interrupted me, I could have retired years ago. I especially find it grating when he asks me a question then interrupts me while I'm answering him. If he didn't want my input, why ask?
6
I see there are a lot of men commenting here, telling women that we are wrong, this doesn't happen. It's all just a figment of our girly imaginations.
1
Whatever we are, it came from what we were. And that came from whatever we were previously. ad infinitum. And on it goes, guaranteeing that everything you see today will not be much of an issue as we evolve.
On this particular genderizing complaint it seems a standard observation can be made. It goes like this:
I doubt that men coming into a social paradigm that is traditional female and created by females (quilting bee, say -- and anything else anyone can think of) will intrude verbally very much. Women, esp. of the feminism-exporting ilk, could improve their effectiveness by realizing that most social paradigms they find themselves in the professional world are male-dominated because they were created by males (primarily for male action).
Hopefully women don't really want to take over male-created systems ... when they could simply use that talent to create their own systems and speak as they would.
The prevailing situation however seems a little too much like: "I want my gender inserted into professional football and btw, we need the rules changed to 'no contact'."
On this particular genderizing complaint it seems a standard observation can be made. It goes like this:
I doubt that men coming into a social paradigm that is traditional female and created by females (quilting bee, say -- and anything else anyone can think of) will intrude verbally very much. Women, esp. of the feminism-exporting ilk, could improve their effectiveness by realizing that most social paradigms they find themselves in the professional world are male-dominated because they were created by males (primarily for male action).
Hopefully women don't really want to take over male-created systems ... when they could simply use that talent to create their own systems and speak as they would.
The prevailing situation however seems a little too much like: "I want my gender inserted into professional football and btw, we need the rules changed to 'no contact'."
1
Even well intentined men interrupt their wives. I witnessed famous psychologist John Gottmsn repeatedly interrupt his wife Julie Gottmsn as she was onstage making a presentation at one of their joint marriage enrichment workshops. John stood at the back of the room yelling out reminders to his wife about what she should talk about. At one point, she had had enough, looked across the room of about 100 participants and said to him and the cameras filming her lecture: "John, I have the floor." Ironically the workshop was for professional marriage therapists and the irony of this moment was no lost . . .on the women in the room.
6
When I worked, and there was a dominating female who would usurp the time, some of us would briefly conspire during breaks while in the men's room. Upon returning, one of us would make a brief counter statement to her point, the rest of us would say "right" and we'd move on.
Worked then....try it some time
Jon
Worked then....try it some time
Jon
Jon, you provided a perfect. overt example of the vast white male conspiracy to silence the voices of women.
4
I don't know David Bonderman or Arianna Huffington, so it's quite possible he is a complete jerk who insulted an otherwise reasonable person.
On the other hand, it's also quite possible that he is an otherwise reasonable person who carelessly made a lame joke at the expense of a completely humorless person.
In 51 years in business - at a senior executive level for most of that time - I have personally witnessed both situations, as well as many other permutations in-between those two extremes. My conclusion: no matter what the race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, etc., etc, of the combatants, wherever you have human interaction, you will have situations where one party somehow insults the other.
However, I can also say with 100% confidence that none of these have warranted front page coverage in the NYT, and therein lies the problem: is there really such a dearth of real news, or can we expect more and more articles like this which are so obviously click-bait?
On the other hand, it's also quite possible that he is an otherwise reasonable person who carelessly made a lame joke at the expense of a completely humorless person.
In 51 years in business - at a senior executive level for most of that time - I have personally witnessed both situations, as well as many other permutations in-between those two extremes. My conclusion: no matter what the race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, etc., etc, of the combatants, wherever you have human interaction, you will have situations where one party somehow insults the other.
However, I can also say with 100% confidence that none of these have warranted front page coverage in the NYT, and therein lies the problem: is there really such a dearth of real news, or can we expect more and more articles like this which are so obviously click-bait?
Last year I attended a talk given by a fabric company owner to a group of quilters, almost all women. One of the few men in the group, quilter or accompanying husband, started a heated discussion with the speaker about manufacturing processes. I watched, fascinated, as the two traded opinions, forcefully, for several minutes while the mostly female group looked puzzled. Finally another female executive who was present, his chief of operations, interrupted to bring the speaker back on point. It was surreal. I don't know if the member of the audience was trying to express his masculinity in a sea of women, or if he was just a pain in the rear.
2
Anyone notice in the Chuck Schumer video -- the male staffer who makes the Priebus joke interrupts the woman who is speaking.... .... it happens all the time.
1
Of course it could not be that Harris was "showboating " or being impolite or badgering Oh no, it its all about her being a woman ... her behavior in all manner of settings, is to play both the race /woman card.
2