30 % of Kansas power comes from renewables. It is working hard on water issues in the west. Only four populated wealthy counties in the east. And my church refers to God as She. Leawood can't support the whole state, but change is happening.
3
The desire to refuse to collect taxes to pay for infrastructure and other public-good services fits neatly with the desire for privatization.
"The private sector can do it better and more efficiently!" the Republicans cry. The true beneficiaries, of course: Republican donors who are salivating at the prospect of building private prisons, schools, toll roads and the such at great profit for themselves.
Will they provide quality service? Doubtful. That would require them to cut into their profit margin.
"The private sector can do it better and more efficiently!" the Republicans cry. The true beneficiaries, of course: Republican donors who are salivating at the prospect of building private prisons, schools, toll roads and the such at great profit for themselves.
Will they provide quality service? Doubtful. That would require them to cut into their profit margin.
8
Kansas may be today's example, but their great stat is not the only one with a major tax fight in progress, or close to getting started. Without some new tax revenue, even those Republican fools who demand the very best performance from their tax dollars, will receive Zero Value without some measurable increase in the revenue stream. Even a third grader can easily do that 'complicated math.' The Kansas legislature simply has No Clue. I'll bet that those legislative grain farmers do OK with their own checkbooks, but hey cannot balance their state's checkbooks. Sorry, but this is SAD!!!
1
I'm not certain if your proposition to raise taxes is the solution to opioid abuse. I don't see what a tax raise has to do with the FDA properly regulating drug companies, drug studies being done in an ethical and proper manner, drug company research being focused on eradicating diseases instead of cosmetics, and prohibiting doctors from being paid lobbyists for drug companies through massive abuse of written prescriptions.
We already pay taxes for all these things. These taxes pay the salaries of our Congressional representatives, whose job is to legislate and pass laws for the common good, which they are obviously failing miserably at.
We already pay taxes for all these things. These taxes pay the salaries of our Congressional representatives, whose job is to legislate and pass laws for the common good, which they are obviously failing miserably at.
The Kansas story is even worse. Brownback and his allies, including Kris Kobach, purged moderate Republican legislators in divisive intra-party primaries to stack the legislature, while they refused to obey state Supreme Court orders about education funding. It took voting moderate Republicans (at least by Kansas standards) back into office to get to this veto. Brownback and his Koch-funded allies have tried to steamroll over any dissenting views, purging opponents even with their own party and disobeying court orders. It isn't just a story about a polite dispute over taxes.
7
Yet there is other plans in the legislature to supplant appropriations (pay-for)
http://larrysummers.com/2017/01/18/congress-is-considering-an-extremely-... If legislate means hard thinking...
http://larrysummers.com/2017/01/18/congress-is-considering-an-extremely-... If legislate means hard thinking...
If one doesn't count the cost to the current genreation of students, that perhaps Mr. Brownbeck's tax cuts don't matter much because, as some wtriters have said Kansas ranked 27 before the tax cuts and 27 after them so nothing was lost. Except that wasn't supposed to happen. The tax cuts were supposed to unleaseh this great surge of investment and spending that would fund all the programs that had not been funded before due to income restraint. Instead of a surge there was a drought and the school children of Kansas were forced to pay for the governor's tax cut, over crowded classrooms, no new text books, too few supplies, no support for special programs and huge hikes in state university fees. The governor sold the state's future for a pipe dream and now the children who have suffered may not be able to make up for what they lost/. Economic well bieng is more than a mGDP raniking.
2
I fail to see the plausibility of tax cuts to big companies leading to economic expansion, when for many years these companies have invested their excess cash in share buybacks due to a lack of desirable capital expansion projects. Pretty obvious.
3
"The most momentous political news of the past week ... was the Kansas Legislature’s decision to defy the governor and raise income taxes" And that too as progressive, though still less than prior to 2013.
Republican party wasn’t aversive to tax-hikes. Indeed Ronald Reagan as Gov. of CA tripled the state revenue with the largest tax increase in its history! But he adopted the supply-side economic policy as president and cut top marginal rate in 2 steps to 28% from 70%. During the entire Eisenhower era, top rate was 91% on over $2-3 million in current dollars. When JFK proposed a cut from that to 65%, not 50% or 28%, lawmakers of both parties opposed. Following JFK assassination LBJ managed to cut the top rate to 70%; with inflation, by 1980, all taxable incomes over about $650K in current dollars had to pay at 70%, which was unsustainable. But Reagan cut that to 28%; by 1988 all taxable incomes over $61K in current dollars had to pay only 28%, a windfall for the affluent leading a rapid rise in inequality. White collar crimes also rose along with the 1980s’ Gordon Gekko greed!
We need modest tax increases both at federal & state levels; CA model is the best at state level. Payroll tax should be cut on the first $10K to 1% & second $10K to 2%; eliminate the cap but cut it to 1% on over $150K. Cut corporate tax to say 25% to be globally competitive.
Republican party wasn’t aversive to tax-hikes. Indeed Ronald Reagan as Gov. of CA tripled the state revenue with the largest tax increase in its history! But he adopted the supply-side economic policy as president and cut top marginal rate in 2 steps to 28% from 70%. During the entire Eisenhower era, top rate was 91% on over $2-3 million in current dollars. When JFK proposed a cut from that to 65%, not 50% or 28%, lawmakers of both parties opposed. Following JFK assassination LBJ managed to cut the top rate to 70%; with inflation, by 1980, all taxable incomes over about $650K in current dollars had to pay at 70%, which was unsustainable. But Reagan cut that to 28%; by 1988 all taxable incomes over $61K in current dollars had to pay only 28%, a windfall for the affluent leading a rapid rise in inequality. White collar crimes also rose along with the 1980s’ Gordon Gekko greed!
We need modest tax increases both at federal & state levels; CA model is the best at state level. Payroll tax should be cut on the first $10K to 1% & second $10K to 2%; eliminate the cap but cut it to 1% on over $150K. Cut corporate tax to say 25% to be globally competitive.
1
America was once a nation that built things. It was a nation that believed in itself and its future. It was an unquestioned precept that to have a future, you had to plan and build for it. Now we have become a nation of debt, not investment. By our actions, we don't want to even invest in our children. The rich send their kids to private schools and know with great assurance that their offspring won't have to depend on state colleges for the precious ticket of entrance to the upper economic middle class ranks. Their kids will go to brand name, private colleges where privilege is doled out like cotton candy at a carnival. Take all you want. It's yours, baby.
What moron came up with the idea that you could have great things without paying for them? Why have we decided to place bets against ourselves and our nation?
Petty tax cuts make for petty gains. What, you can spend more time at WalMart buying cheap products that break when you get them home? Working together, investing wisely and carefully in what a society needs to grow and prosper pays off big, both for the wealthy with money to invest and for ordinary folks trying to stay where they are or climb up a bit.
Always favoring tax cuts over actual needs is defeatism passing itself off as a plan to help. We are acting like an impoverished, crippled nation instead of the richest large nation on earth. We are doing so propelled by the greed of those who have the most and want to guard it lest some of it go to help others.
What moron came up with the idea that you could have great things without paying for them? Why have we decided to place bets against ourselves and our nation?
Petty tax cuts make for petty gains. What, you can spend more time at WalMart buying cheap products that break when you get them home? Working together, investing wisely and carefully in what a society needs to grow and prosper pays off big, both for the wealthy with money to invest and for ordinary folks trying to stay where they are or climb up a bit.
Always favoring tax cuts over actual needs is defeatism passing itself off as a plan to help. We are acting like an impoverished, crippled nation instead of the richest large nation on earth. We are doing so propelled by the greed of those who have the most and want to guard it lest some of it go to help others.
10
What happened in Kansas was perfectly predictable using the “balanced budget multiplier” (Google it!):
If both taxes and expenditures are decreased by an equal amount X (the Kansas supply-side experiment) the GDP will decrease by X and unemployment will increase.
If both taxes and expenditures are raised by an equal amount X (as in Obamacare) the GDP will increase by X and unemployment will decrease (not a “job killer”).
The higher the Marginal Propensity to Consume (MPC) of the people affected by the increase or decrease in taxes or spending, the higher the Multiplier.
If both taxes and expenditures are decreased by an equal amount X (the Kansas supply-side experiment), since the people affected by the tax decrease have a higher income and a lower MPC, relative to the people affected by the spending decrease, and therefore a lower Multiplier, the effect on the economy will be a reduction in GDP greater than X, and the effect on unemployment will be more severe, exactly what happened in Kansas. The opposite occurred with Obamacare, which is why it became a “job creator” (and not a “job killer” as predicted by some).
Businessmen only increase production and employ additional people if demand for their products increases. They will not increase production simply because they, the businessmen, have more money in their hands, because that would produce a glut, prices would decrease, and so would profits.
If both taxes and expenditures are decreased by an equal amount X (the Kansas supply-side experiment) the GDP will decrease by X and unemployment will increase.
If both taxes and expenditures are raised by an equal amount X (as in Obamacare) the GDP will increase by X and unemployment will decrease (not a “job killer”).
The higher the Marginal Propensity to Consume (MPC) of the people affected by the increase or decrease in taxes or spending, the higher the Multiplier.
If both taxes and expenditures are decreased by an equal amount X (the Kansas supply-side experiment), since the people affected by the tax decrease have a higher income and a lower MPC, relative to the people affected by the spending decrease, and therefore a lower Multiplier, the effect on the economy will be a reduction in GDP greater than X, and the effect on unemployment will be more severe, exactly what happened in Kansas. The opposite occurred with Obamacare, which is why it became a “job creator” (and not a “job killer” as predicted by some).
Businessmen only increase production and employ additional people if demand for their products increases. They will not increase production simply because they, the businessmen, have more money in their hands, because that would produce a glut, prices would decrease, and so would profits.
3
Mr. Tomasky is being far too sanguine.
Supply-side orthodoxy, which revolves around the central fixed idea of slashing taxes on any and every capital entity, be it private or corporate, is a zombie ideology.
And everyone knows, even when a zombie is literally falling apart at the seams, it still shambles forward without relent, seeking fresh brains, who then succumb in turn.
So when Mr. Tomasky says, "here’s hoping that Kansas represents a breakthrough moment," I would remind him that is just a classic moment in every zombie story; the protagonists think they have finally found the answer, but then the zombies always -- always -- come back. This is as true a fact as supply side economics is delusional.
Supply-side orthodoxy, which revolves around the central fixed idea of slashing taxes on any and every capital entity, be it private or corporate, is a zombie ideology.
And everyone knows, even when a zombie is literally falling apart at the seams, it still shambles forward without relent, seeking fresh brains, who then succumb in turn.
So when Mr. Tomasky says, "here’s hoping that Kansas represents a breakthrough moment," I would remind him that is just a classic moment in every zombie story; the protagonists think they have finally found the answer, but then the zombies always -- always -- come back. This is as true a fact as supply side economics is delusional.
4
The Republicans reluctance to raise taxes is not entire. When considered in the overall context, even a 'tax cut' can result in differential rates of cut for different incomes, thus shifting the burden of taxes among incomes. When you consider this, it becomes clear the overall effect of Republican 'tax cuts' has been over time to shift the burden of taxes off of corporations and the extremely wealthy and onto the middle class. Lower incomes already miss paying income tax, though they are still heavily impacted by regressive 'flat taxes' like FICA and state sales (and often state income) taxes. But taxes on income streams primarily flowing to the very wealthy - capital gains, carried interest, dividends - have received favorable treatment for the last several Republican tax cuts. Republicans prattle about tax cuts for "job creators" and tax cuts for "trickle down benefits" but there is no evidence that past tax cuts have resulted in more jobs, nor that any significant portion of the hugely disproportionate tax reductions of the very wealthy have actually 'trickled down' to lower income working people. The net result has been that over the last 30-40 years the corporate proportion of overall federal revenue has declined, the proportion of all taxes paid by the very wealthy (the 0.1% and above) has declined, and the proportion paid by the middle class (up to $100k income) and the upper middle class ($100-$250K income) has grown. Tax shifts more than tax cuts, and deficits grow.
4
I just read today that Kobach is running for governor and criticizing the current legislature raising taxes. Kansas is not out of the woods yet. Kobach is a Right Wing nut who is in the Koch's pockets. He spends more time worried about nonexistent voter fraud then real issues.
9
You can bet your bottom dollar that top dog of the political blackmail breed, Grover Norquist, has no intention of loosening his hooks on any of the GOP gang's membership or future prospects. He and the Mega-donors will bring in as many tax-breaking tea partiers as they need to.
Rally around Kansas for daring to determine their own destiny.
Rally around Kansas for rejecting those forces of disruption who are loyal to the corporate welfare state and to the mega-millionaire's "limitless tax haven" fantasy island.
Rally around Kansas for daring to determine their own destiny.
Rally around Kansas for rejecting those forces of disruption who are loyal to the corporate welfare state and to the mega-millionaire's "limitless tax haven" fantasy island.
2
The arguments regarding roads and bridges are hogwash. They will spend it on govt worker salary and pensions..
1
My best friend works for the forest service ; for his masters level education his salary is quite small; he has faced long periods without pay due to "budget freezes" ; the only reason to work in public service is the promise of reliable benefits. His sentiment was less pay for security/benefits of public service would be good in the long run. Where has the mentality gone that investing in a good government to attract good people is worthwhile?
For me It really comes down to decencies that seem lost over the last 10-20 years. There are fundamental unsaid questions this article raises that can keep you up at night. Will people believe that taxes are a way to invest in a better America ? Can we show that a government can be good and useful; not divided and bitter ? Do we no longer care for one another in this country with government services? Tax cuts appeal to the basest of instincts ; selfishness and greed. Listen to republicans and themes emerge; selfishness/ greed, fear of the foreigner. For many of us , fear of the government the republicans control is a big a problem in selling tax cut ideas.
For me It really comes down to decencies that seem lost over the last 10-20 years. There are fundamental unsaid questions this article raises that can keep you up at night. Will people believe that taxes are a way to invest in a better America ? Can we show that a government can be good and useful; not divided and bitter ? Do we no longer care for one another in this country with government services? Tax cuts appeal to the basest of instincts ; selfishness and greed. Listen to republicans and themes emerge; selfishness/ greed, fear of the foreigner. For many of us , fear of the government the republicans control is a big a problem in selling tax cut ideas.
4
The Trump Infrastructure plan seems to be a mostly private plan with Gov't guarantee, which will produce lots of toll roads. I hate toll roads if I have to stop every 10 miles to feed coins to the machine, but if it's all automatic toll collection, then it's reasonably a "user fee" which I guess isn't technically a tax in the usual sense. Of course, TANSTAFFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch), but I'd rather have toll roads than no roads. Or trains, airports, ...
New Jersey once had tons of toll roads. Corporations were created to build them, with the expectation that the tolls would service the debt and fund proper maintenance.
It didn't take long before the roads fell into disrepair and had to be maintained by the state.
Lest you think it was Mafia influence or corruption that caused their demise... all of this happened in the 19th century. Toll roads became less profitable with the advent of canals and railroads that drew away lucrative commercial traffic.
Move that to the 21st century. What happens when a corporation decides it's not making enough money operating the New York Thruway, and starts cutting maintenance? Businesses that count on the Thruway to get goods to market may be able to shift to rail or other options, at a higher cost that's passed to the consumer. Individual motorists often don't have the option of another transport mode, thanks to the paucity of mass transit in the U.S.
Sometimes it's preferable for the government to handle facilities and services that serve the public good. Not everything is best served by those whose primary motivation is to make a profit.
It didn't take long before the roads fell into disrepair and had to be maintained by the state.
Lest you think it was Mafia influence or corruption that caused their demise... all of this happened in the 19th century. Toll roads became less profitable with the advent of canals and railroads that drew away lucrative commercial traffic.
Move that to the 21st century. What happens when a corporation decides it's not making enough money operating the New York Thruway, and starts cutting maintenance? Businesses that count on the Thruway to get goods to market may be able to shift to rail or other options, at a higher cost that's passed to the consumer. Individual motorists often don't have the option of another transport mode, thanks to the paucity of mass transit in the U.S.
Sometimes it's preferable for the government to handle facilities and services that serve the public good. Not everything is best served by those whose primary motivation is to make a profit.
Supplyside economics prior to laffer was a monetary policy more than fiscal. Then laffer provided the political fire with his ridiculous theory, which is actual contradicts basic macro theory. Fact is a tax dollar comes from both consumption and savings, and if you government spends it all, the savings portion gooses the economy. The reverse occurres with tax cuts under a balanced budget. This is not always the case for the nation as a whole which can run deficits, or not cut spending to cover loss revenues, and monetary policy can sdd loanbable funds to make up for lost savings
1
Let's suppose that you profit from an enterprise with a net worth in the billions and a lot of political clout in a small state. Let's suppose that you support political candidates who love low taxes and family values. Then let's suppose that it's just barely possible that you require eager young employees in your enterprise to prove themselves by working hours that places man-killing stress on family life. Now ask yourself if this enterprise supports Brownback and his henchmen and only compounds a ramified hypocrisy in this and other respects. The Koch Brothers? Just asking.
2
Any cuts to balance the needed expenditures, so that the debt doesn't increase?
kobach will be snapped up by the Trump administration if he is only half as bad as you suggest.
2
Once we fall permanently behind China and India because our infrastructure is too old, broken and inefficient, and our knowledge bank of well educated people and funding for basic science research has withered into nothingness, and our allies have found a new nation (India?) to form a constellation around, once America is finally Brazil or worse, like Russia, then maybe the GOP will rethink their modus operandi. But probably not - I mean the rich and conservative in Brazil still do their level best to preserve their position rather than enrich their nation and their fellow Brazilians by investing in their country.
The GOP is the party of Treason. They have one Prime Directive: The ever greater concentration of wealth and power on behalf of the wealthy and powerful. But, unfortunately, money knows no boundaries. And today, the richest man in the world is Putin, the President of Russia, and apparently it's his wealth and power the Republicans are now acting on the behalf of.
This country is hell bound and headed for the dust bin of history. The GOP today means America RIP tomorrow. Ronald Reagan was instrumental to the destruction of this country. Heckofjob Ronnie.
The GOP is the party of Treason. They have one Prime Directive: The ever greater concentration of wealth and power on behalf of the wealthy and powerful. But, unfortunately, money knows no boundaries. And today, the richest man in the world is Putin, the President of Russia, and apparently it's his wealth and power the Republicans are now acting on the behalf of.
This country is hell bound and headed for the dust bin of history. The GOP today means America RIP tomorrow. Ronald Reagan was instrumental to the destruction of this country. Heckofjob Ronnie.
13
Tomasky says: "It’s not because of cable news, or social media or even the corrupting influence of big money in politics. It’s because Republicans won’t agree to a penny in tax increases of any kind — income taxes, payroll taxes, the gasoline tax, anything."
And why won't Republicans agree to a tax increase of any kind? It's pandering to (and fear of) the radical right that's driven by the lies of Fox, talk radio, radical right blogs, and big money. After decades of tax cuts targeted to the rich, there are almost NO reputable economists who believe that tax cuts pay for themselves. Kansas engaged in a radical experiment.
And why won't Republicans agree to a tax increase of any kind? It's pandering to (and fear of) the radical right that's driven by the lies of Fox, talk radio, radical right blogs, and big money. After decades of tax cuts targeted to the rich, there are almost NO reputable economists who believe that tax cuts pay for themselves. Kansas engaged in a radical experiment.
8
I think a fool's errand.
There is a big part of this story that is not getting national attention. A large part of the success in Kansas is due to grass roots efforts to get more moderates in the House and Senate. In my area, a small, bipartisan, group of women started Stand Up Blue Valley - an organization dedicated to getting pro-education candidates elected and anti-education lawmakers out. They endorsed candidates on both sides of the aisle and I believe all of their targeted candidates were defeated and replaced with moderates.
Furthermore, several tax bills failed to gain traction and it was the Women's Caucus in the Senate that put forth this bill that finally succeeded.
Furthermore, several tax bills failed to gain traction and it was the Women's Caucus in the Senate that put forth this bill that finally succeeded.
22
Check out Connecticut, dude. Could probably use some tax cuts there
3
Also, New Jersey and New York. Where does all this money go???
I was hoping that the illustration for this op-ed would be a cartoon of Sam Brownback holding Kansas' head under water in Grover Norquist's bathtub.
9
A ray of hope, but Kansas is a long way from being a humane state. I have never set foot in the state and never will. It's my own little way of saying "no" to everything Kansas stands for, none of it good.
3
Dem Rep Barbara Ballard House minority was fantastic at the mind meld.
I have 0 hope that the republican party as a whole will take this lesson to heart. For reasons beyond my comprehension they are about one thing and one thing only - tax cuts forever for their uber-rich overlords. Facts have not changed this stance in decades; I see nothing to suggest facts will change it now.
6
I heard a maddening interview with Pope Grover Norquist on Bloomberg Radio this morning in which hosts Tom Keene and David Gura abysmally failed to challenge a word Norquist said. And Norquist had a lot of words: he claims that the Kansas tax cuts WORKED, and that growth was yuge. He claimed that the success was derailed by "tax and spend legislators." Keene and Gura didn't even try to get him to admit that those legislators are mostly Republican. Norquist even impugned the Reoublican bona fides of Bob Dole.
Norquist is petrified that someone wll point out that he, the emperor, is not wearing any clothes. Keene and Gura utterly failed to do so, and Mikey B. should call them in for a trip to the woodshed.
Norquist is petrified that someone wll point out that he, the emperor, is not wearing any clothes. Keene and Gura utterly failed to do so, and Mikey B. should call them in for a trip to the woodshed.
9
That's okay. Republicans will find some other lie to use as a pretext for redistributing wealth upward.
They've always been good at coming up with these lies.
Unfortunately, we American citizens have been very good at buying into their lies.
They've always been good at coming up with these lies.
Unfortunately, we American citizens have been very good at buying into their lies.
7
"Kansas Legislature’s decision to defy the governor and raise income taxes — a move that could well be the first step in a transformation of American politics much more far-reaching than anything that could come from Russiagate." Are your overstating this just a tad?
1
Thank you, Dorothy, for finally exposing the tax cutting wizard of Topeka as an economic vampire draining the lifeblood from the Sunflower state.
3
What's even more revealing about the modern extremist form of Republicanism that no one ever talks about (hello Dems again) is its anti-democratic (small "d") values of less government. You obviously can't have more government if you never raise the taxes to fund it (tho the GOP has done this quite neatly thru gov't debt over the yrs--and then some advocating not to fund it!), and if your raison d'etre is to make "gummint so small as to drown it in a bathtub" (Norquist again?) then you deny the people, the governed, opportunities to express themselves and solve problems thru democratic activities.
The American people need a special prosecutor to investigate the anti-democratic party for gross malfeasance, if not worse. Are there political scientists a bit less partisan than Hacker & Pierson--whose American Amnesia helps understand where our politics has gone wrong--who can call out the GOP for its rank idiocy, so that the American people and their democracy can benefit?
The American people need a special prosecutor to investigate the anti-democratic party for gross malfeasance, if not worse. Are there political scientists a bit less partisan than Hacker & Pierson--whose American Amnesia helps understand where our politics has gone wrong--who can call out the GOP for its rank idiocy, so that the American people and their democracy can benefit?
3
Interesting report. I wouldn't read so much into it though as if this is the start of some major change in terms of attitudes toward policy and government at large in the heart land - or is it the wasteland? Hope I'm wrong otherwise a foolish, simplistic, undereducated swath of America will be calling the shots in this country for some time. Bodes badly for the rest of us unless some learnin' has been goin' on.
1
Republicans in Kansas conducted an irresponsible economic experiment on its own population. Cut taxes on the supposed job and money makers, and all the bills will get paid by the rest, who will have more to spend than they'll know what to do with. Has this pipe dream ever been shown to have validity in the actual world where real people try to survive? I mean, ever? If not, why would anyone but a fool adhere to it?
And then there's totally Democrat-controlled California, with moderate and necessary taxes, steaming along as the sixth or seventh largest economy in the WORLD with no sign of distress. Why isn't that the obvious "best" model being espoused by every state? What's the issue? Answer: Republicans. And only because it wasn't their idea, the country be damned.
And then there's totally Democrat-controlled California, with moderate and necessary taxes, steaming along as the sixth or seventh largest economy in the WORLD with no sign of distress. Why isn't that the obvious "best" model being espoused by every state? What's the issue? Answer: Republicans. And only because it wasn't their idea, the country be damned.
10
This is a good reason to allow Mr Trump and the Congress to slash and burn government programs, high on the list Obamacare. Sometimes you have to go through hell to understand how important something is. like the song says " you don't always miss what you got till it's gone". I guess Kansas may have learned a lesson, but time will tell.
4
I always thought the title of that book should have been not "What's the Matter with Kansas" but "What's the Matter with My Theory". What was the matter was he thought people voted for economic reasons, when they actually vote for cultural reasons.
2
"Change won’t come fast — for one thing, very few Americans know the above, because no one talks about it (hello, Democrats)."
If change means we Dems have to change repub voters' minds, then change will not come at all. We Democrats have less money to spend on ads than repubs. And free speech is money. The Supremes said so; it is the law of the land. So spending our donations on public service ads that explain complicated issues like taxes in 30 second sound bites ain't gonna work. When would we talk about ourselves -- while our opponents waste no time trashing us with lies and the other side believes most of us are not even citizens?
Perhaps the people of this great land have a responsibility to pay attention. But then I am reminded of those addicted to FOX............We are doomed.
If change means we Dems have to change repub voters' minds, then change will not come at all. We Democrats have less money to spend on ads than repubs. And free speech is money. The Supremes said so; it is the law of the land. So spending our donations on public service ads that explain complicated issues like taxes in 30 second sound bites ain't gonna work. When would we talk about ourselves -- while our opponents waste no time trashing us with lies and the other side believes most of us are not even citizens?
Perhaps the people of this great land have a responsibility to pay attention. But then I am reminded of those addicted to FOX............We are doomed.
3
I challenge anyone to show that supply side economics has worked anywhere in the World - ie. that the poor got richer because the rich got richer.
6
Before Brownback and the right-wing conservative legislature
was voted in, Kansas actually had a mix of conservative and
moderate Republicans; and Democrats in the legislature.
We had the"three-legged stool" mix of property, income and
sales taxes that provided good highways, properly funded
schools that ranked high in education, and were willing to
fund programs that actually helped people who needed it.
Since the tax cuts of 2012 and the election of far right
conservative Republicans, our state has been in a downward
spiral in every facet of government and the results have
been downright ugly.
Fortunately Kansas finally came to their senses in 2016 and voted
in people who actually care to govern in a sensible manner
that will put us back on the path to fiscal soundness.
Kansas truly is an example of "what not to do" at the state
and federal level.
was voted in, Kansas actually had a mix of conservative and
moderate Republicans; and Democrats in the legislature.
We had the"three-legged stool" mix of property, income and
sales taxes that provided good highways, properly funded
schools that ranked high in education, and were willing to
fund programs that actually helped people who needed it.
Since the tax cuts of 2012 and the election of far right
conservative Republicans, our state has been in a downward
spiral in every facet of government and the results have
been downright ugly.
Fortunately Kansas finally came to their senses in 2016 and voted
in people who actually care to govern in a sensible manner
that will put us back on the path to fiscal soundness.
Kansas truly is an example of "what not to do" at the state
and federal level.
8
Trickle down economics is a faith based initiative.
Cut taxes, and then hope and pray for growth.
Cut taxes, and then hope and pray for growth.
5
I am so glad to see something akin to reason prevailing. America is us. We are the state. We need to fund ourselves. The beast we starve is us. I hope this is the beginning of a change.
7
The GOP's overlords has decreed a massive tax cut for themselves; ina addition Ryan/McConnell are going to arrange a massive transfer of middle class 401k wealth to the for profit health care industry. It's currently happening behind closed doors and is called the AHCA. Here's hoping we die, but not before they have all our assets and our votes!
2
Republicans employ the same disingenuous argument against raising taxes that they use in their radical, no-compromise embrace of the Second Amendment: "slippery slope" inevitability. In Kansas, it apparently took near state collapse to cause any change to an entrenched fiscal position. Even more sadly, despite the continuing horror of gun violence in America, the N.R.A. has convinced weapon owners of the s.s.i. in its successful resistance to common sense gun control. For decades, Democrats have been branded as the political evil intent on confiscating your money and your guns. We remain the outlier amongst developed nations in both public policy areas.
7
The average top income tax rate between 1932 and 1980 was 81%. This includes the period after WW2 which is considered by many conservatives to be the golden years. Suddenly in 1980, Libertarians were able to make the case against progressive taxes, but coming up with the questionable argument that the stag in the 70's stagflation was suddenly caused by not enough money carrots being dangled in front of large company CEO's and executives. Ignoring the fact that the CEO's and executives of the 40's 50's and 60's were just as smart and hard working as their richer successors, and that progressive taxes never was the problem.
5
The "no tax Republican ideology" will not disappear. Several states with large populations have low taxes, along with low personal income taxes (Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Arizona & Nevada come to mind). These five states enjoy fairly robust economies, and have consistently attracted new businesses, many moving from high tax and cost of living states (the Northeast, Illinois and California come to mind). This, it appears, is the economic scenario that Governor Brownback was seeking. However, Kansas does not have the business infrastructure and skilled worker population to match other more competitive low tax rate states.
Kansas' economy is primarily agricultural based, and is a sparsely populated state, with no inspiring reasons (seashore, mountains, etc.) for anyone to move there. Kansas will always require low taxes and low levels of public service in order to survive, unless gold or some other precious commodity is discovered. And all of that is OK, Kansas is fine, just needs to recognize who it is and manage itself accordingly.
Kansas' economy is primarily agricultural based, and is a sparsely populated state, with no inspiring reasons (seashore, mountains, etc.) for anyone to move there. Kansas will always require low taxes and low levels of public service in order to survive, unless gold or some other precious commodity is discovered. And all of that is OK, Kansas is fine, just needs to recognize who it is and manage itself accordingly.
4
Here in Nevada we attract lots of retirees from California and NY and NJ since we have no state income and no inheritance tax. Services are good and the government keeps a close watch of wasteful spending. The money I save pays for a lots of vacations and nice cruises. Remember that Nevada produces more lithium used for electric cars than any other state in the USA. Most of the gold and silver mined in the USA comes from Nevada. You can write your long essays about taxes but I look at the quality of life. It is good here in Las Vegas.
3
I recall driving from Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, AL, to my final USAF assignment in Seattle in 1977. Since my wife preceded me to Seattle, I was driving alone. I had installed a CB radio (remember them?) to keep myself awake on the long trip. As I was passing through western Kansas, with not even a tree in sight, to break the monotony, I broadcast "When God was passing out scenery, Kansas must have been at the end of the line." That generated a steady broadcast of nasty replies.
Actually, it was not all bad, and enjoyed several returns to engage in pheasant hunting trips with old friends. Salinas was reasonably attractive and the people were the salt of the earth.
I was a republican then and stopped when Dubya sent my son to Iraq. I served in Vietnam, and I was sick of brain dead wars.
Actually, it was not all bad, and enjoyed several returns to engage in pheasant hunting trips with old friends. Salinas was reasonably attractive and the people were the salt of the earth.
I was a republican then and stopped when Dubya sent my son to Iraq. I served in Vietnam, and I was sick of brain dead wars.
1
I grew up on Kansas but have lived in California for three decades. I am so proud to live in a state that is sane if not perfect. Over the years I have visited Kansas frequently because of family. The level of political ignorance in Kansas multiplied exponentially during that time period. The override of Brownback's veto was a miracle. Let's wait in see if Kansas voters elect Kris Kobach as the next governor. Kobach makes Brownback look like FDR.
13
I can't help thinking that today's highest bracket is about 36%, that the
"tea" in Tea Party stood for "Taxed Enough Already," that taxes haven't been this low in a generation, that Warren Buffet said he pays less in federal taxes than his secretary, that the highest brackets under both Eisenhower and Reagan reached 92%, that corporate taxes formally are among "the highest in the world" but that instead of paying that much they pay what's called "the effective tax rate" and that's about 22%.
"tea" in Tea Party stood for "Taxed Enough Already," that taxes haven't been this low in a generation, that Warren Buffet said he pays less in federal taxes than his secretary, that the highest brackets under both Eisenhower and Reagan reached 92%, that corporate taxes formally are among "the highest in the world" but that instead of paying that much they pay what's called "the effective tax rate" and that's about 22%.
6
Excellent article.
Progressive taxation is common sense - once your basic necessities are covered you have the duty to contribute to the common good.
In Kansas they did it the other way round, and experienced a collapse of their physical and educational infrastructure. As Tomasky said: the perfect experiment.
Progressive taxation is common sense - once your basic necessities are covered you have the duty to contribute to the common good.
In Kansas they did it the other way round, and experienced a collapse of their physical and educational infrastructure. As Tomasky said: the perfect experiment.
13
Well, that one thing is no longer the matter with Kansas. But I was just there last week, and trust me, there's still plenty the matter.
14
https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/06/12/were-not-even-in-kansas-any...
June 12, 2017
We’re Not Even In Kansas Anymore
By Paul Krugman
Will the end of the Kansas tax-cut experiment — hey, that’s what Governor Sam Brownback himself called it, although he refused to accept the crystal-clear results of that experiment — mark a turning point in U.S. politics? Michael Tomasky thinks it might...
June 12, 2017
We’re Not Even In Kansas Anymore
By Paul Krugman
Will the end of the Kansas tax-cut experiment — hey, that’s what Governor Sam Brownback himself called it, although he refused to accept the crystal-clear results of that experiment — mark a turning point in U.S. politics? Michael Tomasky thinks it might...
3
For the one story about a state which cut taxes too much we have at least ten that have taxed themselves to the point where businesses and people are leaving. Republicans don't like tax increases because they become entrenched and lead to wasteful spending. Hopefully compromises will be reached and state economies will flourish. But looking at disasters such as Illinois, the more likely outcome is a Puerto Rico type event. If you think it is bad now, wait until the next recession.
5
illinois's problems come not from high taxes but a legislature who didn't make payment into a pension system for literally decades.. GOP and Democrat administrations gleefully put off payments and way way over estimated the amount the funds would earn. Now our GOP governor is holding the state hostage for his reform package that might help improve things down the road but not for years. Of course the democrat who controls the house isn't exactly anxious to co operate.
Voters had no idea what was happening. It was complicated and the problems were always in the future.
Voters had no idea what was happening. It was complicated and the problems were always in the future.
1
Eliminate the pensions and discharge their debt then refund the balances to the people whose wallets supplied it: taxpayers. There is no legitimate reason why public servants should have higher pay, more generous benefits or better working conditions than those whom they work for!
1
In a lot of respects, it would have been preferably if Kansas would have completely melted down rather than having been saved by raising taxes.
The actions of the Republican legislature will simply be used as an example by the Koch brothers of an experiment that was not allowed to succeed because of "weak sister Republicans".
What we need is one good example of a state completely imploding because of Republican policies before their nonsense will stop in other states.
Unfortunately, Kansas came to its senses before that happened.
The actions of the Republican legislature will simply be used as an example by the Koch brothers of an experiment that was not allowed to succeed because of "weak sister Republicans".
What we need is one good example of a state completely imploding because of Republican policies before their nonsense will stop in other states.
Unfortunately, Kansas came to its senses before that happened.
6
Sadly, Kansas was one of the few red states in recent years to have good, solid schools. No more. But even after Brownback had decimated the schools for his give-aways to the wealthy, they voted him in again!
What is wrong, indeed?
What is wrong, indeed?
10
Just curious did they also raise taxes on corporations like the Kochs, or did they just hit individual taxpayers? Might. E asking too much to bite the hand that feeds them.
Republican governance tacks precisely into the perfect storm of voter ignorance and legislative cowardice. Unfortunately when unprincipled frauds like Governor Brownback keep getting elected, they conclude that validation by clueless voters makes them political geniuses. I fear the Kansas electorate today is about as intelligent as a dozen years ago and the snake oil of tax cuts will remain a tempting commodity.The guy who said "Pay no attention to the mak behind the curtain", was speaking to Kansans, not by accident.
7
Economy is driven by demand, not supply. It is a fact that you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. Excellent reason to tax religion, most especially fundamentalist religion whose primary mission is to foster ignorance. No wonder Republican politicians support religion. Trump has stated that he loves uneducated Americans. Who else would ever support him?
9
I must ask -- what is that illustration supposed to be? The revived Dark Crystal? The spaceship of those that serve Man? And does it only focus its enlightening beams on places with unsustainably low taxes?
6
As a Kansas business owner and professional (optometrist) I have greatly benefited personally from these tax cuts. The entire justification for passing them was to add jobs. I have not added a single job in my practice because the economy of my city, Wichita, is stagnant.
The collateral damage has been immense. Teachers are quitting, roads are decaying, and our schools are in deep trouble.
The statistics that say that Kansas is better have been the formation of new entities, such as LLC's that allow a business to take advantage of the tax cuts. They are NOT net new businesses, industries, or endeavors. Brownback is a colossal disaster.
The collateral damage has been immense. Teachers are quitting, roads are decaying, and our schools are in deep trouble.
The statistics that say that Kansas is better have been the formation of new entities, such as LLC's that allow a business to take advantage of the tax cuts. They are NOT net new businesses, industries, or endeavors. Brownback is a colossal disaster.
30
After I retired from the Air Force, I worked for Boeing for 24 years. The Boeing operation in Wichita was quite extensive in the 1980s.
2
Grover Norquist should take the blame for all of this. When the members sign the "No Tax" pledge, what they really are signing is Norquist's promise not to run a campaign against them. So they refrain from voting for taxes, in order to keep their seat in Congress. Hooray for America and our principled representatives!
18
Not to mention the Koch Brothers. Good point, let's see who's the first Republican to take the leap. Hint: probably be one of those house members who are most dreading the midterms.
6
Whose economic advice should you take? that of the men who parlayed a modest petroleum company into being tied for the world's third richest, or the nattering tax and spend limousine liberals who grace these pages? I'll go with the winners since wealth is capitalism's scorecard.
1
Take a look at California in the past few years after the voters changed the election system and managed to end the Republican stranglehold on state government!
23
The abject failure of Republican orthodox economic and tax policy in Kansas and its repudiation by Kansas politicians of both parties has already been declared "fake news" by the Republican party. The nation's downward spiral is a very long way from finding intelligent life in the Republican Party.
11
Great article and important reality for those following the blind ideologues and the cynical billionaires.
I have no objection to the Republican philosophy of cutting taxes and spending. What I do object to is their unwillingness to cut spending across the board. If you trim the budgets of one program, you should trim them all. But of course, there are inevitably programs in every state and on the federal level that the GOP won't touch, like defense spending. Somehow, that's considered sacrosanct. And there is where the hypocrisy of the Republicans is exposed when we talk about "fiscal responsibility."
13
As someone who was born and raised in Kansas and has watched the Brownback experiment with mingled amusement and horror, this makes me happier than I can say -- for Kansas specifically, of course, but also more generally as the first faint hint of sanity reasserting itself in the GOP. Grover Norquist's tax pledge was idiotic from its inception, and the slavish adherence to it by so many of our legislators, in defiance of not only common sense but basic mathematics, has been truly appalling.
Kudos to the Kansas state legislators for doing exactly what they are supposed to do: putting the true interests of their constituents above empty words and party loyalty. Washington could learn a few things from them.
Kudos to the Kansas state legislators for doing exactly what they are supposed to do: putting the true interests of their constituents above empty words and party loyalty. Washington could learn a few things from them.
14
it might be helpful to understand the goals of Grover Norquist. generally speaking, he believes the the United States of 1926 is the ideal. And returning to that era is the goal of his "no tax" pledge. Think about what that means. No social security, no FDIC, no SEC, no medicare or medicaid, and the list goes on. He isn't just about taxes.
12
In 1926, you got to decide how to spend your money, not a cabal if leftist politicians or a faceless building full of bureaucrats. Today, mother government knows what's best for all of us and just how much of your income or wealth you deserve to keep. I'll take the "old days" where I alone are responsible for my success or failure.
1
You alone? Just out of curiosity, do you drive a car on federal or state highways? Use a hospital? Did you attend public schools?
3
Recently, I heard someone comment on a radio show that what we need in education in this country is not only financial literacy but tax literacy. Over the past decades there has hardly been any positive reporting or stories on exactly why we have taxation and the use of taxes. Conversely, I've seen more than my share of 60 minutes stories documenting either some kind of ridiculous study that was funded by taxpayers or some kind of waste that occurred with taxpayer money. Children in our schools receive little, if any, education about the use and purpose of taxes and thus grow up to be illiterate when it comes to understanding tax policy. So, it's not surprising that people grow up having a hostile attitude towards taxation. Yet, as I looked out my window and watched as my garbage was picked up this morning and filled my water bottle with water I knew was clean and safe, as I drive on roads recently paved and pull over as fire trucks and emergency vehicles race to an accident, I'm grateful for what my taxes provide me. Maybe Kansans and others who have swallowed anti-tax propaganda will begin to wake up and discover that a life without taxation can be pretty miserable. Time to change the narrative in this country. Erick Erickson is just one man. We can do better than allow him to drive the conversation.
18
What you are describing is indoctrination, not education.
3
No education.
Grover Norquist's pride in "Americans for Tax Reform" and his pledge is the pride of an adolescent in an action that grownups with ulterior motives praised and the adolescent mistook for serious endorsement of his idea, and of him.
But adults who are capable and mature assess the consequences of actions, however well intended, and correct themselves. Norquist is incapable of it, and aided, abetted, enabled and facilitated in his behavior. "Americans for Tax Reform" is as capable of learning from the results of 35 years of our national experience with supply side and the Kansas experiment as Trump is capable of learning from being shown he lied.
Kansas, and hopefully other States, will profit from this commendable action. But it's highly unlikely that this dysfunctional White House and Congress will. They're as adolescent in their ability to change tax policy as Grover Norquist.
But adults who are capable and mature assess the consequences of actions, however well intended, and correct themselves. Norquist is incapable of it, and aided, abetted, enabled and facilitated in his behavior. "Americans for Tax Reform" is as capable of learning from the results of 35 years of our national experience with supply side and the Kansas experiment as Trump is capable of learning from being shown he lied.
Kansas, and hopefully other States, will profit from this commendable action. But it's highly unlikely that this dysfunctional White House and Congress will. They're as adolescent in their ability to change tax policy as Grover Norquist.
9
Unlike medieval times, we pay taxes not to enrich a monarch but to ensure the common good, be it health, transportation, education or another entity that all Americans need.
I moved from CT where I paid over $4200 a year in property taxes to SC, where a similarly priced home costs me under $400 a year. Setting aside snow removal, both states have spend on more or less the same public services. But the services in CT were both more generous and more humane.
I wouldn't mind paying a bit more in taxes if it ensured better schools, better roads and a better safety net for those who need it. It's the right thing to do.
I moved from CT where I paid over $4200 a year in property taxes to SC, where a similarly priced home costs me under $400 a year. Setting aside snow removal, both states have spend on more or less the same public services. But the services in CT were both more generous and more humane.
I wouldn't mind paying a bit more in taxes if it ensured better schools, better roads and a better safety net for those who need it. It's the right thing to do.
17
The difference is in the bloated union wages up north where the average pothole filler takes down $50,000 and a guy within sight of retirement (something I'll never see!) can scrape the $100k level versus southern states that don't tolerate that leftist ideology and pay the same wages and benefits as the private sector. A perfect example of government largesse with our tax dollars is found in a comparison of Amtrak and BNSF. The railroad favored by Warren Buffet pays it's average worker $18,500 while the failure that is the government operated rail system lays out an average of $55,000. And that doesn't include featherbed work rules or benefits.
2
Leave Capitalism Alone-Long Island NY
"Bloated" union wages?
Ya, right.... but no. Not exactly true.
I know, let's read the Bureau of Labor and Statistics data on the subject for a more balanced picture:
"Differences between union and nonunion compensation, 2001–2011" :
https://data.bls.gov/search/query/results?cx=013738036195919377644%3A6ih...
In addition:
*It's false that over the last twenty years, income inequality has narrowed substantially in the U.S. private sector - False
*It's true that employers are generally interested in reducing the fixed proportion of workers' pay, even if it means increasing the performance-driven component of such pay
*It's true that jobs are likely to be divided into pay grades when most jobs are filled from within, and there is a substantial need for training and experience for employees to perform well
*It's false that States with right-to-work laws tend to have lower pay levels than states without such laws
*It's true that union wage increases lead to nonunion wage increases; the converse is not true
"Bloated" union wages?
Ya, right.... but no. Not exactly true.
I know, let's read the Bureau of Labor and Statistics data on the subject for a more balanced picture:
"Differences between union and nonunion compensation, 2001–2011" :
https://data.bls.gov/search/query/results?cx=013738036195919377644%3A6ih...
In addition:
*It's false that over the last twenty years, income inequality has narrowed substantially in the U.S. private sector - False
*It's true that employers are generally interested in reducing the fixed proportion of workers' pay, even if it means increasing the performance-driven component of such pay
*It's true that jobs are likely to be divided into pay grades when most jobs are filled from within, and there is a substantial need for training and experience for employees to perform well
*It's false that States with right-to-work laws tend to have lower pay levels than states without such laws
*It's true that union wage increases lead to nonunion wage increases; the converse is not true
7
Where your program falls apart is when the southern guy making $18k/year needs assistance to keep off the streets, you (and me, if it's federal dollars) are picking up that check.
Employers who pay their people wages below the poverty line are not saving themselves or the rest of us money when those people need assistance elsewhere, or your company is looking for Customers. Look at the states that spend more federal dollars than they put in - generally southern Red States.
I don't think you've put the whole picture together - your idea of "waste" in a higher salary is another man's livelihood, which they turn around and spend and invest, possibly in whatever company you work for.
Too many people, when they hear the term Free Market, stop listening when they hear the word "Free"...
Employers who pay their people wages below the poverty line are not saving themselves or the rest of us money when those people need assistance elsewhere, or your company is looking for Customers. Look at the states that spend more federal dollars than they put in - generally southern Red States.
I don't think you've put the whole picture together - your idea of "waste" in a higher salary is another man's livelihood, which they turn around and spend and invest, possibly in whatever company you work for.
Too many people, when they hear the term Free Market, stop listening when they hear the word "Free"...
8
While the news out of Kansas certainly freshens the air, it remains to be proved whether the red state addiction to supply side economics, death before taxes and other miscreant creeds will be changed in the least by this development. Sadly, there’s not enough here to be optimistic about.
If we can’t save the entire Union, at least we can try to save the portion of it that hasn’t lost sight of reason. Perhaps we can see the formation of something akin to a Blue State Concord, coordinated efforts by those like-minded states that hue to a different philosophy from Kansas, operating within the frame of the Union, to collectively (and non-destructively) address common state-level issues such as environmental regulation, health care, and primary and secondary education.
Just because some states are locked into treating their less fortunate citizens in a mendacious manner doesn’t mean that they have to drag the rest of us down with them.
If we can’t save the entire Union, at least we can try to save the portion of it that hasn’t lost sight of reason. Perhaps we can see the formation of something akin to a Blue State Concord, coordinated efforts by those like-minded states that hue to a different philosophy from Kansas, operating within the frame of the Union, to collectively (and non-destructively) address common state-level issues such as environmental regulation, health care, and primary and secondary education.
Just because some states are locked into treating their less fortunate citizens in a mendacious manner doesn’t mean that they have to drag the rest of us down with them.
7
How many times do we have to do this experiment? Many studies have shown that for every $1 tax cut, 50 cents goes back to the economy. Supply side economic theory never goes away because of the outsized voice of the few it benefits
1
How ever do you evaporate 50 cents of every $1 in reduced tax revenues? Your argument refute itself!
1
What are the sources of those "studies?"
1
But... Kansans knew Brownback was a disaster when he ran for re-election and they returned him to office. Whatever else is true, party affiliation is stronger than starvation.
11
as a student of economics at university in the early 80's we proved that the supply side economics espoused by Ronny was a bunch of malarky. Everytime it comes up in conversation I think back to those days and the deal you mention....but what could have been and what could still be if we would have (were to) decrease the military industrial complex budget by say 15% in addition to having a tax policy that is genuinely adequate? AT some point you get to a debate about wants vs needs, investments that generate real returns (not always $) in health, literacy, social well being...I am by no means a dreamer but getting caught in a trap as many republicans seem to find themselves with the so called tax pledge is just the tip of the iceberg in poor judgement and lack of leadership.
11
And so, are we to assume you also believe that the Obama Administration's Keynesian experiment "proved" that big government grows the economy?
3
Most Americans never pay attention to state and local matters, and in Kansas, the citizenry failed in the extreme when Sam Brownback was running for reelection. As a Kansan, who actively worked for Brownback's defeat, I and many others were sickened when voters returned him to office, knowing full well the economic havoc he and his loyal minions were causing schools, the state's infrastructure, and the sick and elderly. Americans of all stripes better become more assertive, and willing to make their voices heard, or they will confront a coming economic crisis that pales the Great Recession of 2008. The failed Brownback experiment had its origins with Speaker Paul Ryan, who was Brownback's chief Senate assistant when Brownback was in the Senate. What Brownback had sought to instill in Kansas is Paul Ryan's economic dream and can become our nightmare if we are not willing to stop this insanity before it is inflicted on all of us.
23
While the federal government does not raise taxes, states do it quietly by raising the state sales tax, and also gas, tobacco, tolls, etc.
2
Just more evidence of their moving money upwards.
The basic assumption of supply side economics is that economies are equilibrium systems which automatically seek a balance of forces when left alone. The economists who thought this up observed how easy it was to predict any of the pressure, volume, or temperature of gases because they operated in an equilibrium relationship to each other and any could be predictably anticipated from knowing how any of them changed. If one allowed a lot of lee way in the measures economies might be modeled in this way, but it way not a result of scientific inquiry but of wishful thinking. Supply and demand are not related so intimately that changing one automatically changed to other and in real life the prices of things do not occur where the curves of those two things intersect, close but rarely at the same location. Increasing supply of capital may result in increased savings because the demand for it fails to materialize. If customers cannot buy more goods, no amount of new capital can justify increasing productive capacities.
8
Economics is a complex, far-from-equilibrium system, more like biology or meteorology but even more complicated by being a social science as well. Yet economists have been using models based around the assumption of near-equilibrium conditions - which works fine in many physics problems, but fails utterly when applied to the actual economy.
The only economist whose models I respect is Steve Keen, author of Debunking Economics. He's currently trying to take natural resources and the environment into account along with supply and demand for capital and labor, using a complex systems-based approach. A lot of work on complex systems already exists thanks to engineers and meteorologists along with the mathematicians who formulated chaos theory, so there's actually some reason to hope that we might at least start to understand economics better than our current dogmas, if not really predict it.
I doubt we'll ever come up with good predictive economic models, but I think a few renegades are actually making some progress in understanding how it really works. The econ establishment is pretty hopeless - Krugman at least gets a few things right (e.g. both Kansas and the European crisis), but there's still a lot he doesn't get and it goes downhill rapidly from there.
But yeah, Sam Brownback ran a classic supply-side disaster which helped to bolster Keynesianism as the foundation for the economics of the future. Hopefully this realization finally does make it into the GOP.
The only economist whose models I respect is Steve Keen, author of Debunking Economics. He's currently trying to take natural resources and the environment into account along with supply and demand for capital and labor, using a complex systems-based approach. A lot of work on complex systems already exists thanks to engineers and meteorologists along with the mathematicians who formulated chaos theory, so there's actually some reason to hope that we might at least start to understand economics better than our current dogmas, if not really predict it.
I doubt we'll ever come up with good predictive economic models, but I think a few renegades are actually making some progress in understanding how it really works. The econ establishment is pretty hopeless - Krugman at least gets a few things right (e.g. both Kansas and the European crisis), but there's still a lot he doesn't get and it goes downhill rapidly from there.
But yeah, Sam Brownback ran a classic supply-side disaster which helped to bolster Keynesianism as the foundation for the economics of the future. Hopefully this realization finally does make it into the GOP.
Life is not economic theory. Consistency is not the strong point of human beings.
3
The surprise is not that Kansas finally figured out that trickle-down doesn't work. The surprise is that voters haven't figured out that it doesn't work anywhere, ever.
Please, Republicans, give a few examples where supply side economics has resulted in general prosperity and lower deficits.
Please, Republicans, give a few examples where supply side economics has resulted in general prosperity and lower deficits.
11
The article is over the top in terms of its assertion that Republicans won't raise taxes when a need arises.
In 2008 they voted in the House for the largest income tax RATE increase in US history (from 35% to 90% on AIG bonuses paid for with Tarp money.) Even Grover Norquist gave them a special dispensation on this one, claiming it was OK since the bill would never make it into law.
But, more realistically, Republicans are for, no, rabidly for, raising state sales taxes for any and everything that needs to be funded.
Arizona has a public education funding crisis so dire the business community is concerned about a qualified universe of job applicants.
The Chamber of Commerce is putting up two million dollars to help solve the problem! The money is to pay not for education but to get a proposition on the ballot to almost TRIPLE the current point 6% sales tax that is helping to fund education to 1.5%!
There is NO limit to how high a Republican will raise the state sales tax. Doug Ducey, the AZ governor and, like Brownback, a Koch stooge, wants to eliminate the corporate income tax and make up the difference with another 2-3% increase in the sales tax.
I'm even buying groceries now on Amazon to avoid the sales tax. Sorry, local businessman, you want to vote Republican? Elections have consequences.
In 2008 they voted in the House for the largest income tax RATE increase in US history (from 35% to 90% on AIG bonuses paid for with Tarp money.) Even Grover Norquist gave them a special dispensation on this one, claiming it was OK since the bill would never make it into law.
But, more realistically, Republicans are for, no, rabidly for, raising state sales taxes for any and everything that needs to be funded.
Arizona has a public education funding crisis so dire the business community is concerned about a qualified universe of job applicants.
The Chamber of Commerce is putting up two million dollars to help solve the problem! The money is to pay not for education but to get a proposition on the ballot to almost TRIPLE the current point 6% sales tax that is helping to fund education to 1.5%!
There is NO limit to how high a Republican will raise the state sales tax. Doug Ducey, the AZ governor and, like Brownback, a Koch stooge, wants to eliminate the corporate income tax and make up the difference with another 2-3% increase in the sales tax.
I'm even buying groceries now on Amazon to avoid the sales tax. Sorry, local businessman, you want to vote Republican? Elections have consequences.
10
Here is a news flash, Paul: the city of Phoenix has NO sales tax on groceries.
8
Paraphrasing Physics Nobel prizewinner Richard Feynman:
"Reality must take precedence over ideology, for Nature cannot be fooled."
In the case of Kansas, "nature" is evidence-based math. But the Congressional Republicans are not listening; they're using two people who helped plan the Kansas policy to create the wonderful new tax "reform." Same kind of tax cuts, so the result will be the same as that of Kansas.
"Reality must take precedence over ideology, for Nature cannot be fooled."
In the case of Kansas, "nature" is evidence-based math. But the Congressional Republicans are not listening; they're using two people who helped plan the Kansas policy to create the wonderful new tax "reform." Same kind of tax cuts, so the result will be the same as that of Kansas.
6
It took Kansas this long to realize that 2 - 4 = -2? No wonder they were in trouble! Must have been all those cuts to Education! Any good history teacher could have told them that contrary to myth, President Reagan raised taxes more than seven times in his administration. An economic teacher would have pointed out that Supply-Side Economics has NEVER worked! And a literature instructor might have mentioned that for all of her rigidness regarding self-reliance, Ayn Rand spent the last years of her life on Social Security!
Governor Brownback and his Conservative cronies have flunked. Send them back to school so that they can learn the right lessons.
Governor Brownback and his Conservative cronies have flunked. Send them back to school so that they can learn the right lessons.
15
Blind tax cuts are never a good idea. But to cut more than any state in history, as this article implies, and do it in a state called Kansas is a joke. People are not anxious to move to Kansas. Nothing against Kansas, but it's just not on the top of most people's list. And, therefore, not on the top of many vendor's lists.
This doesn't prove or disprove anything, except that cuts are not a good idea without assessing the other components of growth - do we have the educated populous to seek high tech companies? Manufacturing plants that rely on technology more than ever? Where do our strengths lie?
Were our taxes high to begin with or were they level set based on mandatory spending needs for education, housing, etc. ?
This doesn't prove or disprove anything, except that cuts are not a good idea without assessing the other components of growth - do we have the educated populous to seek high tech companies? Manufacturing plants that rely on technology more than ever? Where do our strengths lie?
Were our taxes high to begin with or were they level set based on mandatory spending needs for education, housing, etc. ?
3
This article addresses your point. In brief, Nebraska, which is similarly situated to Kansas, did much better without those crippling tax cuts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2016-03...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2016-03...
4
"Afterward, the conservative group Americans for Tax Reform, led by Grover Norquist, started making Republican candidates for Congress and state houses sign a no-tax pledge."
Why exactly is Grover Norquist, who, as far as I can tell, was elected by no one to represent their interests, in a positions to "make" republican candidates sign a no-tax pledge? And why do those candidates acquiesce to that demand? Where in their oath of office are they asked to promise to support and defend a right-wing advocacy group? What is wrong with these people?
Why exactly is Grover Norquist, who, as far as I can tell, was elected by no one to represent their interests, in a positions to "make" republican candidates sign a no-tax pledge? And why do those candidates acquiesce to that demand? Where in their oath of office are they asked to promise to support and defend a right-wing advocacy group? What is wrong with these people?
15
Once upon a time, Kansas was a happy-go-lucky state. Sure, it took its time to finish a highway (more than a decade); and sure, it was a place where aerospace, agriculture and oil intersect. You would find an oil rig in the middle of a corn field. But it was Nancy Kassebaum progressive Republican country. Relatively tolerant. Not anymore. The Olathe shooting doesn't happen overnight. With Brownback's decimation of the state's infrastructure, both physical and intellectual, there will be more Adam Purintons coming out of Kansas.
So you may have done a victory lap a bit too soon, Mr Tomassky. Why, Kansas is known for its expertise in agriculture, the bitter harvest is yet to come
So you may have done a victory lap a bit too soon, Mr Tomassky. Why, Kansas is known for its expertise in agriculture, the bitter harvest is yet to come
5
As Bill Mahr pointed out the argument is over regarding Republican vs Democratic economic policy.
5
Let's not forget, however, that Brownback was re-elected and the legislature is still Republican. The only real comeuppance for politicians is when they lose their seats. Republicans will continue to doe all the horrible things that they do until they LOSE. Not enough Americans in rural areas get it. They are more concerned with their racist resentment of urban areas or one issue conservative cons like guns and abortion. I would like to be optimistic that republicans have come to their senses, but I wouldn't count on it. What will bring them to their senses would be substantial losses at the polls and an extended amount of time in the political wilderness, not a 2 year hiatus like 2009-11.
13
The author fails to tell us whether raising the state income tax by a trivial amount (0.755 percent) is going to reverse the descent of Kansas into the abyss of bankruptcy, or merely slow down the ride a bit. Is the tax truly progressive, or merely masquerading as such? A couple earning 100 grand is doing substantially better than the average in Kansas, but they're far from wealthy. What is the tax rate on a couple making 300 grand? 3 million? Rather strange that the author doesn't tell us.
Sometimes the new definition of progressive seems to be tax the middle class substantially less than the lower class (30 grand is poverty, I don't give a hoot how the government agencies define it) while taxing the upper class at basically the same rate as the middle while hollering that it's not regressive. Forget about the fact that with accountants and lawyers the uppers just might get that rate down below the middles, maybe even the lowers.
My hunch is that a state tax increase of a trifling 1% won't save Kansas from plunging over the financial cliff. States don't go from prospering to failing over a 1% difference. I bet the author knows this too. The question then becomes why does the NYT allow such deceptive contributions to their Opinion section?
Sometimes the new definition of progressive seems to be tax the middle class substantially less than the lower class (30 grand is poverty, I don't give a hoot how the government agencies define it) while taxing the upper class at basically the same rate as the middle while hollering that it's not regressive. Forget about the fact that with accountants and lawyers the uppers just might get that rate down below the middles, maybe even the lowers.
My hunch is that a state tax increase of a trifling 1% won't save Kansas from plunging over the financial cliff. States don't go from prospering to failing over a 1% difference. I bet the author knows this too. The question then becomes why does the NYT allow such deceptive contributions to their Opinion section?
6
Grover Nordquist is short-sighted and a bully. I hope people start to realize some taxes are necessary for society to function.
Every year, GOP leaders learn the same lesson all over again: we cannot cut our way to prosperity.
7
things don't sound so great with respect to excessive tax experiments in Chicago, Hartford, etc. either. Who's prosperity are you talking about?
2
the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time. we've been doing this for years and every election we,somehow expect our same politicians to be different. ain't gonna happen.
1
"Every year, GOP leaders FAIL TO learn the same lesson all over again: we cannot cut our way to prosperity."
Fixed it for you.
Fixed it for you.
1
But of course Kansas will again vote in Republican criminals who will loot the treasure on behalf of their Koch Brother owners and then blame the Democrats when the state goes into the toilet. The fools, yahoos, rubes and bigots will believe them because Fox News and Rush will tell them it's so. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligent of the American people, and states like Kansas, Texas, Florida, Indiana, Nebraska and the other red tax moocher states - except for Texas, they take more in Federal revenue sharing then they pay in taxes - they are the takers the Republicans are always vilifying - prove it. Maybe we could get an amendment to the Constitution requiring that no state gets a dime more back in Federal spending than it send to the Federal government in taxes. Then red state parasites can break that cycle of dependency, finance their own food stamps, school aid etc. and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, the way Paul 'Ayn Rand" Ryan and his fellow GOP criminals are always telling poor minority voters, while at the same time trying to disenfranchise them.
11
"Minimum taxing and optimum governing"; that should be the goal! Dear NYT, how to explain this to average citizens, so that they elect right kind of people suitable for the job? ( By the way, can we make our comments or explanations less esoteric? )
Good thinkers and good journalists should influence this thinking, rather than Koch brothers and their likes.
Good thinkers and good journalists should influence this thinking, rather than Koch brothers and their likes.
Grover Norquist and his followers are a blight on ethical societies. Since when is there free lunch? Thanks for this piece!!!
7
There was ample evidence that Brownback was a Nordquist disciple and a voodoo economics nut job before the 2016 election, when he was reelected by the benighted Kansas electorate.
Kansans have gotten what they deserve, except of course for the innocents who are too young to vote, many of whom are receiving a woefully substandard education, going without basic preventive healthcare and daily adequate nutrition.
Kansas GOP: no empathy, no humanity no class.
Kansans have gotten what they deserve, except of course for the innocents who are too young to vote, many of whom are receiving a woefully substandard education, going without basic preventive healthcare and daily adequate nutrition.
Kansas GOP: no empathy, no humanity no class.
13
Brownback should be in prison for his criminally negligent behaviour
8
Amen. Democratic Party are you listening??????
3
Before the readership high-fives and fist-bumps themselves into the emergency room, just think about this for a minute.
Brownback and the people of Kansas have done us all a great service by showing the lie of the Laffer Curve and "trickle-down" through their self-evisceration. For the country as a whole, the best thing that can happen is for the Kansas Seppuku to CONTINUE. We need "Go, Kansas. Keep Trickling." tee-shirts.
On the back of the tee-shirt, "Just Don't Trickle On Me."
Otherwise, next year, the voting public, with their 6 week attention span, will buy the same pitch all over again. Everybody is a sucker for the "something for nothing" pitch, and that's all Trickle Down is.
Brownback and the people of Kansas have done us all a great service by showing the lie of the Laffer Curve and "trickle-down" through their self-evisceration. For the country as a whole, the best thing that can happen is for the Kansas Seppuku to CONTINUE. We need "Go, Kansas. Keep Trickling." tee-shirts.
On the back of the tee-shirt, "Just Don't Trickle On Me."
Otherwise, next year, the voting public, with their 6 week attention span, will buy the same pitch all over again. Everybody is a sucker for the "something for nothing" pitch, and that's all Trickle Down is.
7
I agree. Where are you, main street news? This need to get more visibility. Going down the Kansas path for the country will affect my grandchildren's life. So for me it is personal. This result needs to be shouted from rooftops all over the country.
5
Hear, hear. This news is more important than the Comey testimony. That involves just one unqualified idiot, the tax issue has an impact on generations of the future. I know. Reagan's wonderful "saving" of SSI for my parents required me to postpone receiving benefits for an additional three years. Not any kind of saving, if you're 64 and sick.
1
What a shock! Sam Brownback has gone from being the Quarterback to the Hackback. And supply side dreckonomics, the toast of Reaganites everywhere, has finally been properly toasted, showing that it can't cover even the blindest of republicans. Did someone actually try to sell tickets to this game?
4
Mr. Brownback believed in something equivalent to a perpetual motion machine, a machine that operates without any need to input any additional energy and will run any system to which one might apply it. Reagan believed that despite all of his experience, cutting taxes would generate greater economic growth and offset the lost revenues from the reduced rates by far greater revenues from the increased economic activity. Some economist was able to find a mathematic model which corresponded to this notion and that was proof enough to disprove the notion that the deficits that followed Reagan's tax cuts were anomalies not reasonably expected results. Magical thinking. If you are the Koch brothers, the reduced tax rates mean a lot more money to use as one wants rather than having society take and use it as society sees fit. The price of this kind of thinking is that the commons, the public institutions and infrastructure, which make a modern state possible ends up underfunded and too expensive to maintain and with it comes the likely outcome of anarchy. The price of a sound modern state is taxes. The way to keep those taxes well used is an effective and well run bureaucracy, requiring even more taxes. No one gets all this for nothing.
2
Should be
"...Some economist was able to find a mathematic model which corresponded to this notion and that was proof enough to prove the notion that the deficits that followed Reagan's tax cuts were anomalies not reasonably expected results..."
"...Some economist was able to find a mathematic model which corresponded to this notion and that was proof enough to prove the notion that the deficits that followed Reagan's tax cuts were anomalies not reasonably expected results..."
If more people knew how to manage their money, tax cuts might actually benefit more people in ways that count. But for most people - they'll get a lot more good out of the government doing managing their money for them and ensuring social security, health care and some education costs. How many people will take any tax money they save and actually invest it in retirement and health savings or education accounts? Probably those most inclined to do so are those who least need to. And those who couldn't afford to do so probably most need the services the taxes could provide. And people in the middle - they'll be spending that money on a new cell phone, because it was only $200 anyway. What difference would that make?
1
It really is such a simple message: you can't have something for nothing. Taxes provide value in the form of safe roads, railroad tracks, bridges, clean water, broadband for all, and so much more. So, let's get vocal not just about what we want but what we will pay to get it.
8
This action is the end result of an election that threw out many conservative Republicans and elected moderate Republicans and Democrats who banded together to do what the people of Kansas had been wanting to do for awhile. Brownback isn't unpopular just for his economic policy; he depends upon a Koch Brothers funded right-wing group to provide distorted and downright untrue "facts" about how well the state was doing and he sticks to his message despite all evidence to the contrary. We knew that his main objective was to either gain a spot on the Republican ticket or to ensure himself of a cushy lobbying job after his wasted 8 years. If he takes a position in the Trump administration, most people will say - "I didn't know he was still here."
4
For the amount Republicans kick and scream against raising taxes, you'd think the tax rates were going through the sky. But, as this article states, Kansas only raised taxes on the wealthy by a tiny amount. A couple earning over $100,000.00/year will see an increase of just $755/year. While $755 is not nothing, that small increase will not affect their lifestyle at all. But it will, however, provide a huge difference in terms of education, roads, police, public health, etc.
3
Kansas did the right thing, finally, but very probably not for the right reasons. They were under pressure from a court decision, and even then they had to go around Brownback, who wouldn't yield even in the face of a legal ruling and skyrocketing unpopularity. About all you can say of Kansas Republican legislators is that they saw the writing on the wall better than Brownback did.
This is the political equivalent of being sorry because you got caught, not because you did the wrong thing in the first place.
Excuse me if I withhold my praise and and maintain my severe doubt that other GOP legislators will follow their example absent equal or even greater pressure.
This is the political equivalent of being sorry because you got caught, not because you did the wrong thing in the first place.
Excuse me if I withhold my praise and and maintain my severe doubt that other GOP legislators will follow their example absent equal or even greater pressure.
8
Unfortunately, Reagan/Jindal/Brownback style 'supply side economics' is not tax policy or fiscal policy or political ideology -- it is religion. The experiments all have failed, but they will experiment again and again until the Tea Party Messiah comes again. That second coming will never happen, but many will suffer while the faithful continue to offer us up as human sacrifices at the Temple of Trickle Down.
7
Why isn't there a Norquist equivalent requirement of democrats? They should have to proclaim that they will vote for tax increases for the high earners that are using the US as a safe platform to make their money. That safety comes at a cost, and there should be no loopholes to avoid the payment. That would also start to mitigate the income disparity between classes.
4
Hooray for Kansas. Maybe now the unthinkable will happen and California's Democratic-controlled state house and Senate will show some backbone and pass spending cuts instead of the giant tax increases the governor wants to fill the endless deficit.
Oh wait, a lawmaker just introduced a bill for single-payer healthcare that would exceed the current total cost of the state's budget. And the governor just signed a tax that raises the cost of gas by almost 10%.
Militant opposition to tax increases is the flip side of believing that there's always more money to fund more government programs. Overspending and overtaxing can do just as much economic damage as underspending and undertaxing.
Oh wait, a lawmaker just introduced a bill for single-payer healthcare that would exceed the current total cost of the state's budget. And the governor just signed a tax that raises the cost of gas by almost 10%.
Militant opposition to tax increases is the flip side of believing that there's always more money to fund more government programs. Overspending and overtaxing can do just as much economic damage as underspending and undertaxing.
2
In moral societies, such as California, healthcare is properly seen as a human right. This is represented in Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The questions that arise are in efficiency of ensuring that right. Single payer makes sense when it costs less than private healthcare. If cost of delivery could go down better with single payer, California should take it on. The key is to see how they will do that.
A similar situation exists with pensions. People are highly at risk because 401k and IRA plans are inadequate for funding most retirements. Private pensions have been largely shutdown because they run counter to the profit objectives of private enterprise The only reliable retirement funding system remains Social Security. As an aside, the conservative nature of social security finance also makes it much lower cost to operate than mutual funds and managed accounts (the ones that produce unreliable results).
A similar situation exists with pensions. People are highly at risk because 401k and IRA plans are inadequate for funding most retirements. Private pensions have been largely shutdown because they run counter to the profit objectives of private enterprise The only reliable retirement funding system remains Social Security. As an aside, the conservative nature of social security finance also makes it much lower cost to operate than mutual funds and managed accounts (the ones that produce unreliable results).
6
Also, if you resent higher taxes in CA then Kansas is the place to go. I would pay higher taxes any day and move to the civilized state of CA only if I can find a suitable job there. Still looking...
From San Diego.
From San Diego.
3
Unfortunately, Republicans' anti-tax bias is accompanied by their unreasonable insistence that the private sector governed by a free market is the only valid impetus for creativity, building, and change, that the private sector is a better manager. While it is true that private enterprise has created wonderful consumer products, it is likewise true that not every public need can or should be filled by private companies. We do not have private local police or firemen; our water and sewer systems are public; our roads are built and maintained by local communities. It is important, as we contemplate infrastructure upgrades, that we not allow our businessman president and his Republican Congress to move public property into the private sphere.
8
And the result is that cops, firefighters and pothole fillers are grossly over-compensated. Being anti-tax isn't a bias. It's the refusal to submit to a leviathan government that only works in its own bureaucratic interests.
1
I looked up the salary figures for police and fire fighters on Long Island, finding salaries ranging from $45,000 to $154,000 depending on municipality and years of service. Considering the danger the jobs entail and the cost of living in the greater metropolitan NYC area those salaries don't seem out of line. If you think you're overtaxed perhaps you should move to Kansas or Louisiana.
5
LCA,
I asked earlier (you may have missed it?) but how much should they (Cops, Firefighters, Teachers,...) be paid?
I asked earlier (you may have missed it?) but how much should they (Cops, Firefighters, Teachers,...) be paid?
When large numbers of representatives act in unison it is hard for a group like that headed by Grover Nordquist to black ball them. The real test will come with elections when the public has a chance to have its say and it is hoped that Kansans will live up to their reputation as sensible people willing to pay for things they need.
4
My family in Kansas have always and will continue to support Brownback. For the Real Americans in Kansas, this was never about supply side economics. It's been about cutting all support to the poor. Government schools (aka public schools) are just a redistribution of wealth. Good parents sent their kids to Christian schools. ALL money to the poor just encourages the laziness that got them in that state to begin with. It's all about social identity, not economics.
10
Kansas will always have the same thing wrong with it: Kansans' religious commitment to Republican idiotology.
Kansans experience slight cracks in their religious fervor only when they feel severely victimized by this idiotology's ultra-extreme Brownbackian form. Then, and only then, they make minor adjustments to their creed. When they find themselves in Hell, credal adjustments seem necessary, but, do to the faults that brought them there, such minor adjustments do not significantly alter their situation.
Kansans experience slight cracks in their religious fervor only when they feel severely victimized by this idiotology's ultra-extreme Brownbackian form. Then, and only then, they make minor adjustments to their creed. When they find themselves in Hell, credal adjustments seem necessary, but, do to the faults that brought them there, such minor adjustments do not significantly alter their situation.
6
Religion can be OK as long as you don't take it too seriously. After all, it is an unproven hypothesis that requires faith.
1
This might be the wave of the future - but not until those in Congress perform the same experiment on the nation as a whole. An experiment that will be deeply damaging to our country.
I hope this brouhaha serves to remind all Americans that Brownback is simply running a one-state experiment which indicates what Paul Ryan's agenda could do to the entire United States of America.
I have long feared that a Republican sweep in 2016 would result in the Kansas-fication of the nation. ("Kansas-fication"--an ugly word denoting a very ugly possibility.)
President-elect Trump already endorses the deregulate and cut-taxes-for-the-rich agenda proposed by Speaker Ryan. Once this plan "succeeds" and results in expected deficits, Mr. Trump will openly abandon his campaign promises to protect Medicare and Social Security. With Speaker Ryan's and Mr. Trump's tax cuts having "enhanced" the national debt, Mr. Trump will plead that, in the face of this crisis, Medicare and Social Security must be "reformed," even privatized, and that other social programs, including education, must be slashed to the bone.
Mr. Trump has appointed Representative Tom Price as Secretary of Health and Human Services and Ms. Betsy DeVos as Education Secretary. These appointments are indicative of where health and education policies are heading: Not in a direction that promotes the general welfare of average Americans.
Brownback's Kansas is Ryan's America writ small. The experiment performed on a national scale should prove highly enlightening.
I have long feared that a Republican sweep in 2016 would result in the Kansas-fication of the nation. ("Kansas-fication"--an ugly word denoting a very ugly possibility.)
President-elect Trump already endorses the deregulate and cut-taxes-for-the-rich agenda proposed by Speaker Ryan. Once this plan "succeeds" and results in expected deficits, Mr. Trump will openly abandon his campaign promises to protect Medicare and Social Security. With Speaker Ryan's and Mr. Trump's tax cuts having "enhanced" the national debt, Mr. Trump will plead that, in the face of this crisis, Medicare and Social Security must be "reformed," even privatized, and that other social programs, including education, must be slashed to the bone.
Mr. Trump has appointed Representative Tom Price as Secretary of Health and Human Services and Ms. Betsy DeVos as Education Secretary. These appointments are indicative of where health and education policies are heading: Not in a direction that promotes the general welfare of average Americans.
Brownback's Kansas is Ryan's America writ small. The experiment performed on a national scale should prove highly enlightening.
15
Great news. You're right. Democrats must spread it. How much longer does Brownback "serve"?
3
The deal made for Social Security resulted in a surplus in Social Security funds which is now around 15% of what we call the National debt. Borrowing from Social Security let the Republican Administrations government reduce taxes. Now that is time to pay it back Republicans want to reform Social Security so that they will once again have a fund to raid. Social Security tax is the most regressive tax we have reforming it will once again allow the Republicans to use SS funds to cut taxes for the rich.
4
We should remove the cap on Social Security, as we did for Medicare. That would one tax difficult for the wealthy to evade.
7
As long as the monthly SS payment is capped, so too should the maximum contribution. Once you pass the wage that won't result in a larger benefit, any additional contribution is not Social Security but rather welfare.
1
Nothing wrong for welfare, but it shouldn't be just for the wealthy.
3
The Republican Party is stuck in time. Gas used to cost twenty cents a gallon and many years later they assume it still will with the cost of all goods and services (aka “taxes”) to be the same forever. That’s why Republican bumper stickers from the 1950’s for “smaller government” & “lower taxes” are still sold today. Yelling “go team” is great at a game, but doesn’t help the coach determine the winning plays (or enable politicians the ability to govern).
3
"Who ya gonna believe? Me, or yer lyin' eyes?"
40 years after FDR's New Deal America was humming right along. Through government investment we saw a solid middle class that was probably the most prosperous in human history (G.I.Bill), a massive interstate highway system (gas taxes), even sending men to the moon.
40 years after Reagan we can't even fill our potholes.
Republicans claim we can't leave debt to our children; debt which is a man made thing that can be manipulated by smart people, but we can leave our children with an uninhabitable planet, thanks to the same ethos that gives us Kansas.
We are trying to run a massive enterprise with 300 million customers on license fees, parking fines, and alms from the uber riche.
We are trying to run the United States of America on the CHEAP.
Unbelievable.
40 years after FDR's New Deal America was humming right along. Through government investment we saw a solid middle class that was probably the most prosperous in human history (G.I.Bill), a massive interstate highway system (gas taxes), even sending men to the moon.
40 years after Reagan we can't even fill our potholes.
Republicans claim we can't leave debt to our children; debt which is a man made thing that can be manipulated by smart people, but we can leave our children with an uninhabitable planet, thanks to the same ethos that gives us Kansas.
We are trying to run a massive enterprise with 300 million customers on license fees, parking fines, and alms from the uber riche.
We are trying to run the United States of America on the CHEAP.
Unbelievable.
16
And if you really know and follow Kansas politics you are aware that they have a very special type of right wing Republican. Ones who stupidly say out loud and are not ashamed that they don't think they should pay taxes to educate other people's children. At least here in Oklahoma the ones who believe that, and we have plenty, pretend that they support public education. Although you'd never know it from the funding levels. If there wasn't a football program at the University of Oklahoma its state funding would have been cut to zero years ago.
6
Oh there's still a football program at the University of Oklahoma? I hadn't noticed. (Sorry, we Buckeye fans have no chill)
In suburban Denver I hear that thing about paying for other people's kids' education all the time. I say it's a small price to pay to have educated kids with prospects for the future and good ideas in the neighborhood. As opposed to roving bands of illiterate teenagers with no job skills or future prospects. Or, as the old bumper sticker put it more succinctly: "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
Looking at our elected representatives, I believe we've given ignorance more than a fair try.
In suburban Denver I hear that thing about paying for other people's kids' education all the time. I say it's a small price to pay to have educated kids with prospects for the future and good ideas in the neighborhood. As opposed to roving bands of illiterate teenagers with no job skills or future prospects. Or, as the old bumper sticker put it more succinctly: "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
Looking at our elected representatives, I believe we've given ignorance more than a fair try.
2
We have a similar dynamic playing out here in Wisconsin. Walker - a Republican, naturally - is adamant about not raising taxes or fees for anything. Even much needed infrastructure, particularly roads. Now, at least some of their legislative leadership is starting to buck him on the issue. Walker plans to run for President again - even though he denies it (he's a liar) - and he'll be damned if he will do so with a tax increase on his resume. Like most all other Republicans, it's not the state - or the country - that is his priority. It's himself.
7
The sad part of the story is the legislature over-rode the veto, thus saving the governor and his acolytes from responsibility.
So now, anything which happens in Kansas which is unhappy will be the legislature's fault, not the fault of Mr. Brownback, or supply side tax cutting economic theory.
This is the great fear of people who see Trump Care collapsing--it will happen too late for blame to be affixed to the actual culprit.
History is one long argument. If the Republicans had not been able to re write history, the party would have folded years ago.
Whatever success Kansas has now will be claimed by Koch and Brownback. Whatever failures will be those of the Democrats and liberals like Paul Krugman, who said, "I told you so." The anarchist/ T party Republicans will deny everything.
So now, anything which happens in Kansas which is unhappy will be the legislature's fault, not the fault of Mr. Brownback, or supply side tax cutting economic theory.
This is the great fear of people who see Trump Care collapsing--it will happen too late for blame to be affixed to the actual culprit.
History is one long argument. If the Republicans had not been able to re write history, the party would have folded years ago.
Whatever success Kansas has now will be claimed by Koch and Brownback. Whatever failures will be those of the Democrats and liberals like Paul Krugman, who said, "I told you so." The anarchist/ T party Republicans will deny everything.
5
Trickle down economics has been a con game perpetrated by the republican supply side politicians on the American people.
Trickle down has been the direct cause of the deterioration of the American infrastructure for all the reasons enumerated by the author. This alone, quite aside from the divisive propaganda fueled partisanship that substitutes for republican governance, merits its scornful place in the scam history of American politics.
Trickle down is the core of republican politics. It promises wealth, good government, good jobs, a rising economy ... all for free. Coupled with unregulated financial markets and the scuttling of consumer protection laws, and less we forget, the abolition of anti-trust, it is the core belief of all good republicans.
The only problem with trickle down economics is that it doesn't work. Sure, for a couple of years, those whose taxes are cut benefit from a cash flow benefit while their neighbors lose out. But it is a short term bennie. After a few years on a state level and maybe a decade or two on a national level, the debt incurred and the lack of investment in sustaining the infrastructure degrades the economy.
But no worries. Rev up the Fox News channel, stoke the WSJ editors, slip a few incentives to the Breitbarts and the republicans can whip up enthusiasm for guns for nurseries.
Ben Franklin was right. So was Pogo.
Trickle down has been the direct cause of the deterioration of the American infrastructure for all the reasons enumerated by the author. This alone, quite aside from the divisive propaganda fueled partisanship that substitutes for republican governance, merits its scornful place in the scam history of American politics.
Trickle down is the core of republican politics. It promises wealth, good government, good jobs, a rising economy ... all for free. Coupled with unregulated financial markets and the scuttling of consumer protection laws, and less we forget, the abolition of anti-trust, it is the core belief of all good republicans.
The only problem with trickle down economics is that it doesn't work. Sure, for a couple of years, those whose taxes are cut benefit from a cash flow benefit while their neighbors lose out. But it is a short term bennie. After a few years on a state level and maybe a decade or two on a national level, the debt incurred and the lack of investment in sustaining the infrastructure degrades the economy.
But no worries. Rev up the Fox News channel, stoke the WSJ editors, slip a few incentives to the Breitbarts and the republicans can whip up enthusiasm for guns for nurseries.
Ben Franklin was right. So was Pogo.
7
When I think of Kansas I can't help thinking of it as connected to the lost opportunity the Democrats had to make it the focus of the last election when it was already obvious that the great experiment, as Brownback characterized it, was going to blow up the lab making it the Jurassic Park of libertarian/supply side excess coupled with punishing religious right mandates.
Needles to say, this is exactly what the Republican congress has up its sleeve no matter how it is presented, as populism or the usual trickle down sleight of hand with Trump playing both sides against the middle as represented in Kansas coming to its senses. It's now time for the Democrat to broaden their message from Russia to economics as they have the perfect model of failure to draw on. Along with fighting their social darwinist health care plan and insane budgets, they need to give specific examples of what hasn't worked in the states and can't possibly be improved to work nationally. They can't wait for the same inevitable outcome as they now have recent history on their side.
Needles to say, this is exactly what the Republican congress has up its sleeve no matter how it is presented, as populism or the usual trickle down sleight of hand with Trump playing both sides against the middle as represented in Kansas coming to its senses. It's now time for the Democrat to broaden their message from Russia to economics as they have the perfect model of failure to draw on. Along with fighting their social darwinist health care plan and insane budgets, they need to give specific examples of what hasn't worked in the states and can't possibly be improved to work nationally. They can't wait for the same inevitable outcome as they now have recent history on their side.
5
In California, the Legislature (which is 2/3 Democratic) this year raised the gasoline tax to increase funding for long-neglected repair of our roads, bridges and mass transit. And last November, voters in L.A. County, the nation's most populous, supported a sales tax increase for transportation needs.
7
And California's growth so large that there was a budget surplus.
California of course couldn't keep this surplus.
No.
As usual, California's success was punished by forcing her to once again foot the bill for tax cutting red state sewers like kansass, wisconsin and the usual confederate embarrassments.
California of course couldn't keep this surplus.
No.
As usual, California's success was punished by forcing her to once again foot the bill for tax cutting red state sewers like kansass, wisconsin and the usual confederate embarrassments.
7
It is a conundrum is it not? On the one hand, we progressives believe tax increases is a keystone policy towards building an equitable society. On the other hand, how many of us would goto a dinner party next week and tell our friends we would not mind paying $1000 more in taxes next year? Would we go so much as promote such policies to our friends? I am not sure I would, I think they will think I have gone off the deep end.
So given all the crowd-pleasing changes that being even a little flexible could bring, why aren't the gops bending just a little? If the answer is that they will then lose their base and be voted out of office, what incentive do they have?
2
Beautifully written report of the political shift in Kansas. Hopefully, the GOP will take notice. Kansas provided a rich political contribution to the whole country in the Eisenhower family. Eisenhower's leadership in the advancing the logistics efficiency of the United States with the Interstate Highway System, which he dubbed the National Defense Highway in order to bypass the bickering that occurred when highways were solely the responsibility of States, is a major contributor to the US economy.
It was a stroke of genius to create the Highway Trust Fund with taxes taken at the pump for gasoline and diesel. Long ago, the tax for fuel should have been raised or re-indexed so that we could maintain and renew our infrastructure and fund mass transit to meet the needs of American commuters and families.
I believe the no new taxes pledge of many elected officials has harmed the country economically and because of the huge number of accidents, injuries, and health impairment from tailpipe exhausts, our congested highways and streets definitely need investment.
Kansas and many other States would be totally isolated without good transportation to move goods in and out of Kansas. Building on the Interstate Highway investment, I believe we could use the rights-of-way to build a new Interstate Maglev Network, that could haul trucks and passengers at 300 mph, See www.magneticglide.com for concept. It will require a US funded, not State, test program to certify this system.
It was a stroke of genius to create the Highway Trust Fund with taxes taken at the pump for gasoline and diesel. Long ago, the tax for fuel should have been raised or re-indexed so that we could maintain and renew our infrastructure and fund mass transit to meet the needs of American commuters and families.
I believe the no new taxes pledge of many elected officials has harmed the country economically and because of the huge number of accidents, injuries, and health impairment from tailpipe exhausts, our congested highways and streets definitely need investment.
Kansas and many other States would be totally isolated without good transportation to move goods in and out of Kansas. Building on the Interstate Highway investment, I believe we could use the rights-of-way to build a new Interstate Maglev Network, that could haul trucks and passengers at 300 mph, See www.magneticglide.com for concept. It will require a US funded, not State, test program to certify this system.
1
Thanks for this. As a Kansan I have learned to brace myself for moments when even the state making progress, just prompts progressives to dis Kansas. As in, FINALLY they did something right. (The wording of your headline acknowledges this stance.)
It's good to see the praise, because moving the electorate left in Kansas is arduous. The tax increase, and other recent milestones—such as the 20-point swing James Thompson pulled off in the special House election in April, and key seat flips in the state legislature last November—were reached in a tough environment made tougher by the nation's condescension. Giving credit to the Kansans who stuck it out only makes sense, if we would like them to keep up the fight.
It's good to see the praise, because moving the electorate left in Kansas is arduous. The tax increase, and other recent milestones—such as the 20-point swing James Thompson pulled off in the special House election in April, and key seat flips in the state legislature last November—were reached in a tough environment made tougher by the nation's condescension. Giving credit to the Kansans who stuck it out only makes sense, if we would like them to keep up the fight.
7
Now if they can approve Planned Parenthood, they would have entered the 21st. Century.
4
You must be kidding. God would strike them dead if they were to do that.
Grover Norquist (and his ATR) will win the MOST DESTRUCTIVE award for the damage he has done to governance in this country. Like the NRA on gun control, Norquist openly threatens any Republicans who dare negotiate, horse trade or even discuss responsible financing of necessities like fighting the opioid epidemic.
Franklin D. Roosevelt — 'Taxes, after all, are dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society.' You won't hear THAT from any Republican these days. http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2010/02/tax-me.html
Franklin D. Roosevelt — 'Taxes, after all, are dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society.' You won't hear THAT from any Republican these days. http://seniorjunior.blogspot.com/2010/02/tax-me.html
7
Why has nobody ever raised the epic issue of GOP elected officials signing pledges which override their sworn oath to the Constitution? ("the general welfare.") This is the cancer that needs to be ripped out of our political culture, not treated with kid gloves. It is the disease, not a symptom.
There was nothing new about Kansas's "experiment". This was done in with Proposition 13 in California and something similar in Oregon. South Dakota got rid of its income tax in the 1970s. Then of course there is the Federal Government, which did this under Reagan and then again under Bush/Obama. The result in all these cases was exploding deficits and harm to public institutions.
What is new about Kansas is that this is the first legislative body to admit this was a mistake and to completely reverse it, or at least mostly reverse it. It is kind of strange that this supply side nonsense even happened in Kansas in the first place, given how important Protestant frugality and self-restraint is in the culture of Kansas. After all, Bob Dole, one of Kansas's most respected political figures, remained a critic of supply-side economics long after it became orthodoxy in the national-level Republican Party.
What is new about Kansas is that this is the first legislative body to admit this was a mistake and to completely reverse it, or at least mostly reverse it. It is kind of strange that this supply side nonsense even happened in Kansas in the first place, given how important Protestant frugality and self-restraint is in the culture of Kansas. After all, Bob Dole, one of Kansas's most respected political figures, remained a critic of supply-side economics long after it became orthodoxy in the national-level Republican Party.
7
The ability to simply make philosophical points by choosing examples is rampant in the press and certainly in biased media left or right. I could write an article that shows that Illinois is a financial disaster having spent their way through the last two decades and committing themselves to outsized state pension. Per student spending in Chicago is among the highest in the nation, crime rates are among the worst, the state government has been run by a Democratic super majority with only the most recent gov a Republican. Their population dropped more than any other state in the last year. Is this an indictment of an entire system of tax and spend liberal economics or simply a mess of a local government? KS is no more proof that low taxes are bad than Illinois is proof that they are good
1
Mr. Tomasky, you speak the language of knowledge, in this case empirical knowledge. "The experiment was a disaster."
So there was a hypothesis - tax cuts produce a outpouring of wealth for all. OK, design experiment, execute it in real time, observe results, interpret, draw general conclusions about the hypothesis. Upshot: the hypothesis is garbage. Simple. Finished.
Uh, not so simple. The difficulty that ensues is that it's not knowledge we're dealing with but belief, and any zealously held set of certainties is impervious to evidence or the process outlined above.
Wind the tape back to Ron Suskind's interview with Karl Rove in which he said, "that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
When people like me read that we thought Horrors, we're in 1984/Double-think/Reality Control. Piffle, that was only a warm up. Trump simply has no awareness of or relationship to truth or truth seeking. The question doesn't even make sense. But Kansas . . .
So there was a hypothesis - tax cuts produce a outpouring of wealth for all. OK, design experiment, execute it in real time, observe results, interpret, draw general conclusions about the hypothesis. Upshot: the hypothesis is garbage. Simple. Finished.
Uh, not so simple. The difficulty that ensues is that it's not knowledge we're dealing with but belief, and any zealously held set of certainties is impervious to evidence or the process outlined above.
Wind the tape back to Ron Suskind's interview with Karl Rove in which he said, "that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
When people like me read that we thought Horrors, we're in 1984/Double-think/Reality Control. Piffle, that was only a warm up. Trump simply has no awareness of or relationship to truth or truth seeking. The question doesn't even make sense. But Kansas . . .
3
If you are unwilling to share a portion of your income (pay taxes!) to better our society as a whole, then you have a real problem, and it's called GREED, plain and simple.
6
This result was predictable and inevitable. Glad to see it.
Just hope that this tangible evidence changes some minds in the GOP. No, wait, the "alternative facts" will state the opposite. I'm afraid we'll need many more examples of the "Kansas experiment" before the tide of stupid cruelty is reversed.
Just hope that this tangible evidence changes some minds in the GOP. No, wait, the "alternative facts" will state the opposite. I'm afraid we'll need many more examples of the "Kansas experiment" before the tide of stupid cruelty is reversed.
6
Any person stupid enough to wear a Grover Norquist straight jacket should never be elected. It is solid evidence of being brain dead. Reagan's borrow and spend on useless thing like Star Wars exploded the National deficit. Billionaires are not job creators.
3
The basic Kansas problem is still a major disease in our country. People continue to vote against their best interests based on stupid non-issues like abortion, gay marriage and birth control which really involve limiting individual choice in deference to fictitious dogma. We were intentionally created as a secular nation by founders who were responsive to the Age of Reason.
5
Many on the right will continue to claim that the cuts were not deep enough and weren't in place long enough to have the desired stimulatory effect. They will argue that the deep state still exists and the beast has not been subdued. If the benefits of increased revenues are not immediately apparent, there will be pressure to cut even more deeply. This is increasingly likely because of the likelihood that Trump's disastrous diplomatic and policy moves will soon begin to cause the nation's economy, including Kansas', to stagnate. All this is to say, that Mr. Tomasky's opinion piece is overly-optimistic and naive.
3
Can it finally be that we've reached a point where we can drive a stake through the heart of the so-called "supply-side" theories of economics? This stuff has never worked, not once. It's a farce perpetrated by hack economists to enable conservatives to steal middle-America blind. The shocking thing to me is the extraordinary amount of time and pain it took for the victims of the scam to reconsider the narrative.
3
The right has long been selling the something for nothing, market infallibility and government incompetence meme for years. Tax reduction is their only selling point. You can cut taxes all you want and the economy will boom so much that the much lower taxes will be replaced. The table scraps of the wealthy will make every one else well off. Governments are so incompetent that any cut can be made up by increasing government efficiency.
1
This would represent a breakthrough if there was any acknowledgement from the Republicans in DC that this supply side experiment was a failure. Crickets.
3
And we finally got a much needed gasoline tax increase in NJ (along with a ridiculous 1/8% reduction in sales tax, as some kind of concession). The tide may be turning, but don't count on it.
3
Watching the Republican electorate attempt to connect the dots on something like this is like trying to watch your five year old doing one of the free puzzles on the menus that they give you at breakfast to keep him from destroying the dining experiences of the entire restaurant. You pretty much want to rip the crayon out of his hand and finish the thing. You can see the damn pirate's face! You don't do so because it will make him smarter. I don't see much hope here. Curve on, Laffer.
2
This is the most ridiculous op-ed I've seen in a long time, even for the NY Times. It's almost as banal and stupid as something that Paul Krugman would write. Frankly, anything (and I do mean anything) that keeps money OUT of politicians' hands is a good thing.
The best and only way is to let people keep what they make. Who is entitled to decide that a $755 tax increase for a 100k income is "ok" because "they can afford it." The less government does the better. The more we increase the population dependence on government, the more we weaken ourselves. It's got to stop.
It's not about being mean. It's about taking care of yourself and your family.
The best and only way is to let people keep what they make. Who is entitled to decide that a $755 tax increase for a 100k income is "ok" because "they can afford it." The less government does the better. The more we increase the population dependence on government, the more we weaken ourselves. It's got to stop.
It's not about being mean. It's about taking care of yourself and your family.
2
So every family has to build their own road and bridge? Every family has to home-school their kids and provide for their own crime and fire protection? We're talking about basic services here, not some huge leviathan over-reach.
3
I hope you plan to buy lots of sodium hypochlorite and can generate your own electricity to boil and purify your own drinking water.
5
Why aren't you (also) arguing against what the KS Legislature just approved and why?
I get you don't like Paul Krugman or even words that read like he wrote them.
I get you don't like Paul Krugman or even words that read like he wrote them.
Federal Taxes on the top 10% won't hurt the economy. It's all the taxes on everyone else that hurts. State level taxes like we have in CT and in NY are what hurts the economy.
1
OK, I'll ask; how are the states of NY and CT worse off than KS as it pertains to this detailed OpEd:
"As the rest of the country was growing at rates of just above 2 percent, Kansas grew at considerably slower rates, finally hitting just 0.2,.."
"As the rest of the country was growing at rates of just above 2 percent, Kansas grew at considerably slower rates, finally hitting just 0.2,.."
The Kansas experiment is hopefully over. A state or country can not tax cut itself to prosperity. If Gov. Brownback wanted to attract major corporations to Kansas with tax cuts it didn't work, because people and companies need good infrastructure and good schools. Good infrastructure and good schools cost money and that money comes from taxes. A state is not a business that makes a profit, it gets its money from taxes, be it income, real estate or use taxes. Maybe now Kansas' Republicans have finally grown up and stopped listening to the voodoo tax cut economics of Brownback and tax obstructionist Grover Norquist.
5
Mr. Tomasky would serve his readers even better if he would go into the reasons the promised economic boom never arrived. The ideology of tax cuts=economic growth isn't going to go away simply because of (as its adherents will say) "one isolated failure." It is part of a web of "voodoo" economic beliefs that's extremely attractive--because it serves their self-interests--to the wealthy, Wall Street, and ambitious corporate leaders. And this web of junk won't go away until its intrinsic falsities are exposed at every opportunity.
One key reason for Kansas' failure to boom is that the tax cuts "guaranteed" to attract new investors didn't do that. Why? Because except for very short-term enterprises, most investors look for a sizable public-private partnership to underpin their effort. They'll bring in new ideas, talent, and money to set up operations, but they require public funding for infrastructure, educated and healthy workers, prospering consumers (if not everything is for export)--in short, a plausible environment for success. Regardless what its tea-party politicians thought they were doing, Kansas's big tax cuts meant it would be providing less public support, thus making new ventures there riskier than elsewhere. And investors said, we think we'll go elsewhere.
There are other reasons this experiment failed, but I've limited space. But you see the point: These ideas focus so narrowly on benefits to so few, they are always going to fail to boost the general economy.
One key reason for Kansas' failure to boom is that the tax cuts "guaranteed" to attract new investors didn't do that. Why? Because except for very short-term enterprises, most investors look for a sizable public-private partnership to underpin their effort. They'll bring in new ideas, talent, and money to set up operations, but they require public funding for infrastructure, educated and healthy workers, prospering consumers (if not everything is for export)--in short, a plausible environment for success. Regardless what its tea-party politicians thought they were doing, Kansas's big tax cuts meant it would be providing less public support, thus making new ventures there riskier than elsewhere. And investors said, we think we'll go elsewhere.
There are other reasons this experiment failed, but I've limited space. But you see the point: These ideas focus so narrowly on benefits to so few, they are always going to fail to boost the general economy.
5
I for one am thankful that the "agreement between President Ronald Reagan and Speaker Tip O’Neill in 1983 to save Social Security" has never been replicated. This deal was the culmination of a gigantic tax shift from progressive income taxes, paid on all wage income to regressive payroll taxes that are capped at certain income levels but paid on ALL wages up to that cap. The payroll tax was (and still is) way beyond what pay as you go Social Security needed for sustainability and the generated surplus used to paper over the huge deficits caused by Reagan's income tax cut.
Oh, and Ryan and McConnell are poised to take away those benefits that this bogus deal supposedly saved. This deal was entirely one-sided in favour of the wealthy and paid for on the backs of the working class.
Oh, and Ryan and McConnell are poised to take away those benefits that this bogus deal supposedly saved. This deal was entirely one-sided in favour of the wealthy and paid for on the backs of the working class.
2
Steve Bruns, thanks for saying this here. The myth of Tip and Ronnie "saving SS" is like something out of a John Wayne movie. The discerning critic must ask (as you did) what good did this accomplish, and for whom? SS is one of a handful of truly great ideas generated in the US, in the 20th century. It needs to be bragged about and strengthened and glorified by DEMS, not something to be finagled by an appeaser like Tip, or an out and out robber like Paul Ryan, or discussed ad nauseum by Obama and enemies of SS like Simpson Bowles. SS needs to have NO cap, and SS needs to apply to all income-- take that trust fund babies, POW hedge fund managers, BAM- CEO's-- all your hidden/deferred fat cat dough is subject to payroll taxes. Then the percentage could be reduced on all of that income, so that hapless minimum wage earners do not look upon SS as a burden, but as the retirement insurance plan it is meant to be. Paid for and to ALL. The only pol that has talked seriously about SS was Al Gore, and look what happened to him.
2
One of the reason Laffler/Supply side economics exist is due to sophomoric accounting that does not count the debit side of tax cuts. There are several things that the "State" can do well; education, health care, infrastructure, policing (not just cops but predatory businesses ). Often these debts take years to show up such as poor educational opportunity for example, leading to lower income, jobs and more welfare and incarceration costs - a waste of human capital.
Grover Norquist exploited a short term mentality that is a blight on our society, business practices, and cultural inheritance. The GOP has accepted and propagated this blight with the imprintuer of their sophomoric think tanks coupled to a disinformation system perfected by Roger Ailes, Joseph Goebbels Don Draper and Steve Bannon etc.
Kansas has woke up. Hopefully Louisiana is stirring and the USA is learning.
Grover Norquist exploited a short term mentality that is a blight on our society, business practices, and cultural inheritance. The GOP has accepted and propagated this blight with the imprintuer of their sophomoric think tanks coupled to a disinformation system perfected by Roger Ailes, Joseph Goebbels Don Draper and Steve Bannon etc.
Kansas has woke up. Hopefully Louisiana is stirring and the USA is learning.
10
I'd like to see the unelected never elected power brokers for hidden money in the GOP such as Norquist, Rove, et all held criminally liable for the harm they have done this nation by preventing normal repairs and maintenance of our infrastructure and the building of new things as needs came to be. That isn't by a long shot the only harm they have done us but it is the most visible.
4
How about an article about how Democratic policies fail worse ... Detroit!
How about an article about how Democratic policies SUCCEED -- like in your state of NY and mine of CA?
4
You do know Detroit is a city and not a State?
"...Rather than generate an economic boom, however, the tax cuts wreaked havoc on Kansas’ ability to invest in its people and infrastructure. To balance its budget, the state employed gimmicks and one-time revenue, delayed road projects, cut services, and nearly drained funds it had set aside to prepare for the next recession. Two bond rating agencies downgraded Kansas due to its budget problems. Meanwhile, job growth has lagged far behind job growth nationally, and the hoped-for economic boom shows no signs of materializing..."
http://www.cbpp.org/blog/a-kansas-wake-up-call-for-other-states-consider...
http://www.cbpp.org/blog/a-kansas-wake-up-call-for-other-states-consider...
2
I knew this stuff, and I am just your average Democrat who reads the news. Saying "nobody knows this" or "nobody talks about it" makes me wonder exactly who these "nobodies" are. Those of us who live in red states have been watching our Republican legislators wage war on the average person for decades with their "no taxes" nonsense, as if any modern society can function without them. The rich get richer, the rest of us get poorer or stagnate, as we try desperately to pay out of pocket for basic services that could be made affordable - such as healthcare and higher education - if there were a more progressive tax structure. We can't save, we can't get ahead, because every cent we earn is going to some private, for-profit company that pays big shareholder dividends and huge CEO salaries, but starves its ordinary workers, because government no longer regulates fair labor practices and has allowed corporations to decimate unions.
11
"Think we ought to be spending far, far more than we are currently on this hideous opioid crisis, with drug overdoses now being the leading cause of death for Americans?"
No.
"Revenue enhancement' not a tax increase under HW Bush. Shame on you!
1
Yet another article in the NYT which implies the outsized influence of the Koch Brothers. The article about a restructuring of settlement monies order by AG Sessions mentioned that AG Sessions had received a letter from the Koch Brothers which he followed. Is that all it takes to turn policy these days, a letter from the Koch Brothers?
Time for the NYT and all MSM to really introduce the Koch Brothers to ordinary American citizens! Since they seem to be controlling who runs for office and what legislation gets passed, it is high time for them to come out of the closet.
I would like to meet the men who personally control my future.
I don't suppose I will ever be able to talk with them and share my views or needs because that would mean I have a say, I have a vote that counts.
I would like to meet the men who have made my vote null and void.
Boy, if there is one issue the 'left' could join together on it would be this.
Big money OUT of politics right, center and left.
Time for the NYT and all MSM to really introduce the Koch Brothers to ordinary American citizens! Since they seem to be controlling who runs for office and what legislation gets passed, it is high time for them to come out of the closet.
I would like to meet the men who personally control my future.
I don't suppose I will ever be able to talk with them and share my views or needs because that would mean I have a say, I have a vote that counts.
I would like to meet the men who have made my vote null and void.
Boy, if there is one issue the 'left' could join together on it would be this.
Big money OUT of politics right, center and left.
Indeed, Brownback's stupidity was in tacit agreement with republican quasi-religious 'dogma' of 'never raising taxes', no matter how urgent the need for funds for our survival, let alone well-being. Dogma meaning 'not subject for discussion', as the devil (angelical Grover Norquist) abused his private station to ram his idiocy down the G.O.P.'s irrational establishment. Given that closed-minded Brownback has not learned anything about reality's needs, why is he still in power, screwing his own constituents into unnecessary suffering?
5
I'd been watching the Kansas experiment and was pleased to see one recent result was state voters tossing out a lot of the Tea Party incumbents in favor of more rational Republican candidates.
I'd like to see a movement start where voters demand that candidates put the oath of office ahead of any pressure group's pledge.
Pledging fealty to Grover meant GOP candidates swore they'd do less than a full job if the needs of constituents crashed with their oath to an outsider.
Get well, GOP. Shake this disease and focus on what you're elected to do, not on someone trying to hobble you.
I'd like to see a movement start where voters demand that candidates put the oath of office ahead of any pressure group's pledge.
Pledging fealty to Grover meant GOP candidates swore they'd do less than a full job if the needs of constituents crashed with their oath to an outsider.
Get well, GOP. Shake this disease and focus on what you're elected to do, not on someone trying to hobble you.
77
"Pledging fealty to Grover meant GOP candidates swore they'd do less than a full job if the needs of constituents crashed with their oath to an outsider"
Good point.
I have never been able to wrap my head around the idea that you could take an oath of office in the US and still sign another oath to an ideologue nobody idiot (Norquist), and that isn't treason?
At the very least, gross malfeasance of office.
Why isn't that a contradiction to make an oath that negates and supplants the other.
You can only serve one master at a time.
Good point.
I have never been able to wrap my head around the idea that you could take an oath of office in the US and still sign another oath to an ideologue nobody idiot (Norquist), and that isn't treason?
At the very least, gross malfeasance of office.
Why isn't that a contradiction to make an oath that negates and supplants the other.
You can only serve one master at a time.
3
The Democratic Party in Kansas might find itself completely marginalized. If the new GOP tax plan works and restores the government to a functional level AND the GOP selects a relative moderate who supports this new tax to run for Governor, what will the Democrats platform be? They will be defined by the GOP by their social stances, many of which are deeply unpopular in KS... and that may be the only distinction between them and the GOP. If I were a member of the Democrat party in KS I would be hoping that another pro-trickle-down theorist like Brownback is a GOP candidate in the next election!
A good piece...until the very end. Sorry, but big money had an enormous impact on the unwillingness of GOP legislators' willingness to consider tax increases. The Koch, the Scaifes, the Popes, the Mellons, the Bradleys and a few dozen other wealthy families have threatened Republican legislators with primary challenges should they stray from the "no new taxes" orthodoxy. Grover Nordquist was bankrolled by these oligarchs, as has nearly every phony "social welfare" group that's attacked every effort to consider a new tax on anything.
Even now, a considerable number of GOP legislators in the clearly broken state of Kansas voted against raising taxes, despite overwhelming evidence of the harmful impact of the cuts on their state. It took a coalition of Republicans and Democrats to break the logjam created by Brownback with the sponsorship of the Koch brothers. Republicans still fear for their political lives should they support even the most modest revenue increase.
Even now, a considerable number of GOP legislators in the clearly broken state of Kansas voted against raising taxes, despite overwhelming evidence of the harmful impact of the cuts on their state. It took a coalition of Republicans and Democrats to break the logjam created by Brownback with the sponsorship of the Koch brothers. Republicans still fear for their political lives should they support even the most modest revenue increase.
4
Great writing, but for context one important piece of information was missing. Brownback's "tax cuts" mainly went to approximately 350,000 farmers and business owners, who essentially paid no state taxes after that. They paid nothing for the services that taxes provide--public schools, law enforcement, roads, public health, etc. The remaining Kansans paid for them. This was irritating, and finally the "taxed" put enough pressure on legislators to stop this insanity. Now we're all getting a tax hike. Maybe that wouldn't have been necessary if 350,000 had been paying their fair share all along.
9
Nope, it was necessary decades ago that need did not go away but rather increased and won't until all that has been delayed has been done and all normal preparations and contingencies are fully funded into the future.
Um, no. If what you said was so (that those 350,000 weren't paying much tax anyway), the massive tax cuts in Kansas would have had little or no impact. Alas, things instead got much worse.
Zombie Economics aka supply side economics DOES NOT WORK. Let
Hello, Democrats?? About 13 million Democrats voted for Sanders that wanted to raise taxes to pay for education and health care. But guess what? In a NYT article just yesterday they were called "militants".
Liberals have been talking about the consequences of those policies for years. They have been ignored left and right. It is the ultimate irony that Republicans are figuring it out now.
Liberals have been talking about the consequences of those policies for years. They have been ignored left and right. It is the ultimate irony that Republicans are figuring it out now.
5
And why won't the GOP increase taxes? Because they insist that "Government is the problem" and taxes "feed Government". The public bought this argument in the early 1980s and the Democrats fed this narrative when they elected neo-liberals who endorsed "third way" ideas like privatization of public education and ending-welfare-as-we-know-it and backed off of anything that might advance the civil rights legislation their forebears put in place.
MAYBE if the GOP progressive taxes work to restore effective government services in Kansas one of our political parties might suggest to voters that Government ISN'T the problem.... and might even suggest to voters that taxes are the price we pay to maintain a functional democracy.
MAYBE if the GOP progressive taxes work to restore effective government services in Kansas one of our political parties might suggest to voters that Government ISN'T the problem.... and might even suggest to voters that taxes are the price we pay to maintain a functional democracy.
3
Everyone from different states have differing views. I am from Ohio, At this point our economy is running like Kansas. Not as bad, so far but getting there. They have a short fall just before budget which is due June 30th. The republican legislature cut what Kasich is asking. Yet, revenue is in the toilet and not getting any better with alllll those tax cuts to stimulate job growth, remember, we are number one in opioid abuse and deaths. We ARE to the intelligence of our governor, participate in the Medicaid expansions which is helping with this but not for much longer, I betcha!! No jobs created. So far the legislature has changed some cuts back to Kasich's side. This state voted for Trump and in the areas of heaviest voting, over 1,500 jobs dealing with coal and fossil fuel are closing. Guess what, Trump will not answer the mayor's and the town's pleas for help. One town will lose over 50% of their school funding and you can bet the republicans in the state house will not care. Oh, they will fund a charter school to not teach but help their buddies get rich as most of Charters with no over sight are doing, here. They are speaking of cutting funds to public schools again.
4
"Look what happened to Kansas" should be on the lips of every Democrat in the US, in the Senate and House... Every a member steps in front of the mic, they should display graphs showing how Kansas went from one point to another point on various issues... job growth, loss of population, education, you name it... this needs to be hammered, and hammered and hammered... until it sinks in to the national conversation....
Hello Governor Mary Fallin and esteemed members of the Oklahoma state legislature. Please take a trip to our neighboring state of Kansas on a week end when you are not busy worrying about women's reproductive rights or whether we should replace our constitution with the ten commandments, and talk to their legislators. Maybe, just maybe, you might learn something.
11
Take a look at Maine. The Democrats and Republicans have worked together for several years to override numerous vetoes by our conservative Teas party wing nut Governor on important fiscal and social issues. The way government used to be.
4
In 2014, Brownback was trailing badly in the polls against an unknown democrat as he ran for re-election with Kansas' economy sinking. Then, in late September, he started railing against "activist judges" pushing gay marriage around the country, the need for a new anti-abortion bill and the constant threat of Obama taking people's guns away...
Kansas voters immediately fell in line and dutifully re-elected him.
They deserve him.
Kansas voters immediately fell in line and dutifully re-elected him.
They deserve him.
8
Agree Chris. As long as these red state people let intelligent discussions about issues get derailed by spotlights shined on baking wedding cakes for gay couples, they are sunk, and deservedly so. The problem is, their ideology and their resulting votes hurts ALL of us, even the majority who could care less who we bake cakes for, as long as they pay us for our efforts.
Still happy they voted for republicans?
2
Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once said that "taxes are what we pay for civilized society." And when a secretary once asked him if he hated to pay taxes, Holmes replied "No, young feller. I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization."
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt added this aside after quoting Holmes in a speech: "Too many individuals, however, want the civilization at a discount."
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt added this aside after quoting Holmes in a speech: "Too many individuals, however, want the civilization at a discount."
172
Back in the 70's my dad was in the 50% bracket. When he heard someone complaining about paying taxes he always pointed out that he had no problem giving back to the Nation that had given him the chance to succeed.
2
I'll take a discount version of civilization, even if it means a less generous social welfare state. I would prefer a more cause and effect approach too, e.g., gas taxes to pay for roads.
Thank you for this well written analysis. The nightmare may be receding a bit, and for that I am grateful. But, we are a state with an entrenched, deeply conservative population, headed by an intransigent ideologue for a governor, who does not back down, or acknowledge facts.
Many in Kansas have watched in horror at what he has done to our state. He even tried to pass a bill allowing him to override the Supreme Court if he disagreed with their opinions. He is a cruel, hypocritical, faux Christian who has cut services for the most needy in order to defend his tax cuts. Clearly, those cuts are a well documented disaster, and happily we are rid of some of the crazies in the Legislature last year who supported our morally and fiscally bankrupt governor. We may have seen a small light, but I'm not at all sure we have turned any corners.
Next up: KKris Kobach has, predictably, announced his intention to run for governor in 2018. He is smarter than Brownback, and far more extreme and dangerous. His anti immigration, voter fraud, voter suppression vendetta is well documented and unrelenting. He is legal counsel to the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a white nationalist group the Southern Poverty Law Center has designated a hate group. He frightens me deeply and I fear for my state.
Please help us keep our eye on that development as it progresses. He would be far worse for our state, if possible.
Many in Kansas have watched in horror at what he has done to our state. He even tried to pass a bill allowing him to override the Supreme Court if he disagreed with their opinions. He is a cruel, hypocritical, faux Christian who has cut services for the most needy in order to defend his tax cuts. Clearly, those cuts are a well documented disaster, and happily we are rid of some of the crazies in the Legislature last year who supported our morally and fiscally bankrupt governor. We may have seen a small light, but I'm not at all sure we have turned any corners.
Next up: KKris Kobach has, predictably, announced his intention to run for governor in 2018. He is smarter than Brownback, and far more extreme and dangerous. His anti immigration, voter fraud, voter suppression vendetta is well documented and unrelenting. He is legal counsel to the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a white nationalist group the Southern Poverty Law Center has designated a hate group. He frightens me deeply and I fear for my state.
Please help us keep our eye on that development as it progresses. He would be far worse for our state, if possible.
166
Thank you for your informed comments it's important to hear from a perspective of a person who live in the state.
7
The "deeply conservative" population of Kansas are heavily dependent upon Federal subsidies from the blue States, those which are more productive by market criteria.
The leading program among these wealth transfers from blue to red is the Eisenhower farm program. The man who implemented it, Ezra Taft Benson, called it "socialist" at the time, but Ike told him to go ahead. Family farm, mumble, family values uh look over there, don't pay any attention, american Way, mumble mumble.
Both Benson and Ike were pretty much correct in their day, but that was before the biggest "families" in farming were folks like Archer Daniels Midland, now ADM, and Coca-Cola, which some people still think is a fizzy drink.
The ordinary Kansan makes a living working for these Federally financed behemoths.
The interesting news is that Donald Trump and Ayn Ryan plan on cutting these subsidies.
Senator Amy Klobuchar of the Minnesota Farmer-Democratic-Labor Party serves on the Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry. She proposes to rewrite the subsidy programs along lines somewhat like what Ike had in mind.
I can imagine a Warren-Klobuchar ticket, running on an "Outta the kitchen, fellas, America needs somebody who knows what they're doin'", campaign.
I am not a proponent of farm subsidies and would be happy to see them go. They have indeed become behemoths, inequitable and unnecessary. Our equally dreadful Senator Pat Roberts, whose "home" in Kansas is a rented recliner at a friend's house, is front and center banging the drum for said subsidies.
The money would be far better spent on education, infrastructure, Medicaid, social services, school lunches for poor children, etc., etc. which have all been eviscerated thanks to Brownback.
Hmmm, Warren-Klobuchar ticket. I like the sound of that.
The money would be far better spent on education, infrastructure, Medicaid, social services, school lunches for poor children, etc., etc. which have all been eviscerated thanks to Brownback.
Hmmm, Warren-Klobuchar ticket. I like the sound of that.
1
great article in terms of tone, but substantively ??
The Feds have tons of tax revenues - even relative to both mandated and discretionary spending in 2017 - while Kansas tried out "starvation."
Yes, it's good that the Republicans came to their senses, but that has more to do with retail politics - "seeing your constituents at church or the movies" - than an ideological epiphany.
Maybe, enough money flows through "national" for many DC pols, so that they feel they HAVE TO ignore a citizen back home who complains about the lack of AP classes.
And for all that I share the sense of "MIRACLE" in the state that the Koch Brothers influence more than any other, those same guys (and lots like them) have bought the national GOP seemingly beyond swaying.
That is, very few House members or Senators or Pres'l candidates make it to a Nov. ballot if they bite the hand that feeds them.
Maybe, the surest proof/evidence of this terribly cynical view is that a well-to-do Kansan might now be hit with a $1000 annual bill. You know what that amounts to for the top decile - even in Kansas - truly, small change.
The difference between Obama tax levels and the Trump proposals comes to tens of thousands of dollars per year for those same people. Thus, this isn't a game changer - it's a revolt-quasher! We still live in a country where a politician in Kansas need only say, "Fed. taxes support folks on welfare," and - in their gerrymandered districts, they wind up chairing Committees in DC.
The Feds have tons of tax revenues - even relative to both mandated and discretionary spending in 2017 - while Kansas tried out "starvation."
Yes, it's good that the Republicans came to their senses, but that has more to do with retail politics - "seeing your constituents at church or the movies" - than an ideological epiphany.
Maybe, enough money flows through "national" for many DC pols, so that they feel they HAVE TO ignore a citizen back home who complains about the lack of AP classes.
And for all that I share the sense of "MIRACLE" in the state that the Koch Brothers influence more than any other, those same guys (and lots like them) have bought the national GOP seemingly beyond swaying.
That is, very few House members or Senators or Pres'l candidates make it to a Nov. ballot if they bite the hand that feeds them.
Maybe, the surest proof/evidence of this terribly cynical view is that a well-to-do Kansan might now be hit with a $1000 annual bill. You know what that amounts to for the top decile - even in Kansas - truly, small change.
The difference between Obama tax levels and the Trump proposals comes to tens of thousands of dollars per year for those same people. Thus, this isn't a game changer - it's a revolt-quasher! We still live in a country where a politician in Kansas need only say, "Fed. taxes support folks on welfare," and - in their gerrymandered districts, they wind up chairing Committees in DC.
1
This is the best news for Kansas's thinking neighbors in Oklahoma: our Republican state legislature has bought into the same "no tax" paralysis despite our appalling fiscal situation and rapidly deteriorating public education. Our state legislators are prouder to see our state go farther down the drain than to provide essential human services including funds for an educated populace.
I know many Oklahomans who would be pleased to pay more in taxes to make our state a place to be proud of.
May the Kansas developments prove to be contagious!
I know many Oklahomans who would be pleased to pay more in taxes to make our state a place to be proud of.
May the Kansas developments prove to be contagious!
75
Well said, although I am afraid that our legislators are immune to any contagious form of sanity.
1
Republicans are grifters running a cult purely for greed. The people who support these liars are spiteful numskulls.
5
How about equal enthusiasm for rooting out waste and corruption in government? Taxes go up annually, BUT NOTHING EVER CHANGES. Roads and infrastructure are still in terrible shape, school results continue to deteriorate and I can't, for the life of me, identify one single positive thing state government contributes to my life. In my home state, NJ, the gas tax recently increased by 168% but I still hit the same pothole every day!
1
Too late. Cuff 'em.
OK, then. This is a welcome, but temporary pause, in the road to utter ruin.
I'm from Ohio, about as normal, and middle of the Road, as possible.
We have lived here for 15 YEARS( Husbands Engineering Career). I've seen this before, albeit not as bad. After this utter mess is cleaned-up, it will be back to the same old " crap". It's inevitable and sad.
What's REALLY the matter with Kansas??? Extreme Insularity. I would estimate that , except for military service, 90% of the population have never lived elsewhere. Seriously. The few that manage to graduate from College eventually move out. My Husband is rarely able to recruit Engineers, when they do accept a position and move here, it's our standard joke about how long they'll stay. Especially if a wife is in the equation.
Yes, I still feel compassion for the Children, and those too poor to move out. Otherwise, NO. Why??? The blame for this fiasco will fall on
" libruls" and Obama. I'm deadly serious. You really can't fix stupid AND stubborn. We are literally counting down the months until retirement.
Hello Seattle. Now that's somewhere over MY rainbow.
I'm from Ohio, about as normal, and middle of the Road, as possible.
We have lived here for 15 YEARS( Husbands Engineering Career). I've seen this before, albeit not as bad. After this utter mess is cleaned-up, it will be back to the same old " crap". It's inevitable and sad.
What's REALLY the matter with Kansas??? Extreme Insularity. I would estimate that , except for military service, 90% of the population have never lived elsewhere. Seriously. The few that manage to graduate from College eventually move out. My Husband is rarely able to recruit Engineers, when they do accept a position and move here, it's our standard joke about how long they'll stay. Especially if a wife is in the equation.
Yes, I still feel compassion for the Children, and those too poor to move out. Otherwise, NO. Why??? The blame for this fiasco will fall on
" libruls" and Obama. I'm deadly serious. You really can't fix stupid AND stubborn. We are literally counting down the months until retirement.
Hello Seattle. Now that's somewhere over MY rainbow.
This article may the most important one published in the last year. So few Americans understand the devastation caused by Norquist and pals but the Kansas collapses is a perfect case study of their ideas. This should be writ large on the front page of every newspaper, or be the lead story for every broadcast news show for the next month. Every damn day this nefarious influence in the mechanism of our country should be exposed, discussed, explained, and repudiated. Until the people get it.
2
I'm happy Kansas Republicans finally agreed to a tax increase. However, isn't there a problem here? I don't have the details in front of me so please correct me if I'm wrong. If memory serves me, I recall the Brownback tax cuts were mostly oriented towards business, not wage earners. Specifically, corporate investment. The growth was supposed to come from out of state corporate companies flocking to Kansas. That never happened but the Koch brothers still got a big tax cut and the states financial situation collapsed.
Now we have Republican lawmakers voting to tax income. Even a progressive income tax falls mostly on wage earning employees, not businesses. They've effectively shifted a portion of the tax burden away from business and onto employees. That doesn't sound like quite the hallmark occasion presented here. By all means, drive the point home but I'm a little more guarded in my praise. The Republicans are not a kind and generous party even when clawing back revenue.
Now we have Republican lawmakers voting to tax income. Even a progressive income tax falls mostly on wage earning employees, not businesses. They've effectively shifted a portion of the tax burden away from business and onto employees. That doesn't sound like quite the hallmark occasion presented here. By all means, drive the point home but I'm a little more guarded in my praise. The Republicans are not a kind and generous party even when clawing back revenue.
7
One of the most significant changes in last week's tax bill was closing the loophole created when LLCs, sole-proprieterships and small businesses were permitted tax-free pass-through earnings. The governor anticipated 190,000 small businesses would reinvest those earnings in growing their businesses and the economy would grow. Instead, more than 330,000 filers found a way to take advantage of the loophole (often becoming independent contractors rather than employees) and business owners took trips to Cancun and stuffed their retirement funds. State revenue plummeted. Businesses add jobs when they need to expand, not when their owners are netting a better return.
7
Gotcha. Thank you for the explanation.
1
but if they did not continue this the experiment would come to an end and the true believers will claim that all we needed to do was continue on the true path. Hence we need to continue on the true path. Only by doing so can we really find out what will really happen.
1
Liberals: never ever saw a tax they didn't like.
Regressive taxes like FICA and sales taxes. The NYC property tax that hits minority neighborhoods harder than white ones.
We like taxes when they're fairly assessed and used for necessary social purposes. Reasonable taxation of individuals for common purposes is a large part of what defines "civilization". As to what constitutes "reasonable", compare Americans' tax burden with that of citizens of other industrialized countries.
We like taxes when they're fairly assessed and used for necessary social purposes. Reasonable taxation of individuals for common purposes is a large part of what defines "civilization". As to what constitutes "reasonable", compare Americans' tax burden with that of citizens of other industrialized countries.
4
One man's "necessary social purposes" is another man's social reengineering. My starting position is: a taxpayer's money is HIS money. The government does not have an automatic right to any of it but for the justification of what is clearly in support of a necessary government function that cannot be met anywhere else. Otherwise, it is theft masquerading as rule of law.
The Kansas Koback plan is pure and simple a direct method to funnel more money to the already rich. Nothing more, nothing less. But keep drinking the kook aid my Fox friends.
7
But why have the Republicans all signed on to Grover Norquist's idiotic no tax pledge? Because of the influence of big money contributions and the fear of being "primaried."
6
It is a milestone in that Republicans finally faced reality and did not continue to harm their constituents by blindly following a false ideology into oblivion.
But RussiaGate is WAY bigger. It is an attempt b a foreign power to destroy us from within. It is way bigger than Watergate, and that was a disaster
But RussiaGate is WAY bigger. It is an attempt b a foreign power to destroy us from within. It is way bigger than Watergate, and that was a disaster
2
Like their guns you'll take their tax cuts cuts for the wealthy over their dead cold hands. Real world facts are meaningless to this crowd. Only way to deal with this is to vote these brain dead Ryan/McConnell types out of office. Time for some of the electorate to wake up and smell the java.
2
Most Republicans have really no understanding of macroeconomics. In fact, if you think about it, they extrapolate that microeconomic policies that are good for the firm are also good for the nation. They miss the whole point about a firm being in business only for the benefit of the business owners or the private benefit of a few and that the public interest should be totally disregarded because they as small businessmen, have no expertise in social engineering or optimizing societal outcomes. Milton Friedman made this argument and yes much of it is true except for the part when business corrupts the process and management of government such that government only maximizes societal benefits to the owners of capital and not the public interest at large. When people vote Republican they are in effect saying please throw my lot in with those men of business because I want them to take care of me. I want them to employ me. To educate me. And I trust them not to pollute my land, water and air because why would they? Just to make more profit? So the people of Kansas now know their lot should be with themselves and not be dependent of the whims of men who profess to follow the thoughts of a man with no practical working experience of what men really do. As THOMAS HAMILTON once said, if all men were angels we wouldn't need government. Guess what, most men are not angels. The outcomes to society are now clear to see and Reaganism was a tale told by an idiot to get a few men rich.
3
And where exactly are the utopias created by classic tax and spend socialist nonsense? The USSR? Venezuela? Scandinavia? High tax states like NJ and California have become caste societies. The wealthy occupy leafy suburban enclaves, and their servants live in crowded urban slums. Home ownership is virtually unaffordable for millenials looking to live a decent middle class life.
With the knowledge that excessive tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires cratered Kansas's ability to finance vital services for its citizenry, Governor Brownback still was re-elected to a second term. What does this say about Kansas's electorate? Perhaps they were spending too much of their time glued to the Fox News channel gobbling up lies and misinformation like candy. Red State America is addicted to fake news.
5
Supply-side has never worked, ever. It's a smoke screen to allow Republican to reward their patrons. But like any good zombie film, keeps rising from dead to terrorize the poor and the powerless. It's overly optimistic to suggest that the Brownback lesson will "finally" put this gambit to rest. Deficit reduction was the battle cry of the GOP for all of Omama's tenure. Those same voices are now suddenly ok with ballooning the deficit with major tax breaks for the wealthy. The Norquist crowd is a disease and the GOP is it's symptom.
5
News Flash: NYT editorial board dislikes Republican ideas, Readers Agree. No op-ed on California leading the nation in poverty? How about the violence problem in deep blue Chicago? What about the exodus of the middle class from overtaxed states like NJ? Nothing to report on there.
And Kris Kobach last week announced he will run for Governor of Kansas on a pledge to reduce the taxes again. I guess he's ready to bang his head against the wall until it bleeds. One wonders if he would acknowledge that he's bleeding.
2
hmmmmm..... the author does not mention that reagan initiated the tax on SS benefits. i would not use the reagan years as an example of something to return to..... they are the source of everything we have to fix now.
1
Kudos Kansas!
Comeuppance!
Breakthrough moment? Doubtsies. What happened in Kansas will be roundly ignored by the Republican Party nationally. The Republicans in the House and Senate are, in case you've forgotten, poised to enact massive tax cuts, and their idiot facilitator in the White House will approve the bills because he's keeping his promises to bankrupt his base, if not the actual country. These tax cuts will enable crocodile tears to flow as so many programs aimed at helping ordinary citizens must be cut out of existence because the country is broke and the Dems are to blame.
3
Repubs raised taxes even after they signed Grover's pledge! I bet part of it was that they never received th secret decoder ring that they were promsed!
2
Brownback should be run out of Kansas on a rail, but no other state would take him. It was incompetence to implement bad economic policy in the face of evidence from the federal budget experience -- but the rigid insistence that it was the right policy even now, despite the clear and present catastrophic impact on Kansas's economy borders on criminal malpractice. Brownback implemented Reaganomics mysticism, long worshiped by the GOP, but now exposed as fraud. As he goes down, let's hope he takes a lot of Republicans with him.
56
There is no change in the Kansas GOP. The party itself eschews elected moderates as RINOs (Republican In Name Only), and maintains its commitment to regressive tax policies as the key to growing the economy. Ousted state legislators are lambasting their successors, and planning their race challenges with 'Voted For Largest Tax Hike in Kansas History,' as their postcard headline. Fortunately, voters are finally listening more closely to primary candidates than party message.
The heavy lifting that led to Tuesday's breakthrough was well underway this time last year, and culminated in the ouster of Koch-supported incumbents in August, 2016: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/us/kansas-republicans-reject-gov-brow... As a state without a robust Democratic movement, I suspect Kansas will continue to be the battleground for moderate vs. conservative vs. libertarian Republican ideaologies, and the results will reveal themselves each May/June at the end of the legislative session, and each August, when Republicans advance conservatives or moderates. While the most recent results are encouraging, don't think for a moment that Kansas has learned its lesson. Secretary of State Kris Kobach has announced his intention to run for governor; he's firmly planted on the most conservative side of the Republican fence, and will receive widespread support.
The heavy lifting that led to Tuesday's breakthrough was well underway this time last year, and culminated in the ouster of Koch-supported incumbents in August, 2016: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/us/kansas-republicans-reject-gov-brow... As a state without a robust Democratic movement, I suspect Kansas will continue to be the battleground for moderate vs. conservative vs. libertarian Republican ideaologies, and the results will reveal themselves each May/June at the end of the legislative session, and each August, when Republicans advance conservatives or moderates. While the most recent results are encouraging, don't think for a moment that Kansas has learned its lesson. Secretary of State Kris Kobach has announced his intention to run for governor; he's firmly planted on the most conservative side of the Republican fence, and will receive widespread support.
8
It's good to hear from an informed Kansan's perspective what is happening in her state. Thank you.
Smart policy – lower taxes, less spending, smaller government, fewer regulations, greater freedom – does not instantly recreate Eden; profoundly destructive, reciprocal policies produce no immediate catastrophe. It takes time for policy to bear fruit, whether salutary or poison.
Curiously, leftists ALWAYS concentrate on KS, never on NC, which, while consistently cutting taxes, has seen its economy boom. Meanwhile, leftist paradises, like CT and NJ, for which no tax is ever high enough, are in a perpetual state of fiscal catastrophe.
The problem isn’t that taxes are too low, it’s that spending is too high, and too many people live at the expense of their neighbors, forever demanding “free” stuff. (How many Democrats have ever voted for a spending cut, aside from the military?)
So, NJ, CT, IL, and other leftist Meccas which lack the chic of SF or the Upper East Side, daily confront collapse. CT’s Dem gov admits, taxing the rich doesn’t work. Meanwhile, NC and TX eat leftist states’ economic lunch, and the leftist state often cited as the best – WA – imposes no income tax at all.
No, freedom won’t produce an instant boom, any more than socialism produces an instant collapse. But the results of each are inevitable. The evidence is clear and on display in Trenton, Hartford, Springfield, and other leftist capitals where the results of leftism are undeniably disastrous.
Curiously, leftists ALWAYS concentrate on KS, never on NC, which, while consistently cutting taxes, has seen its economy boom. Meanwhile, leftist paradises, like CT and NJ, for which no tax is ever high enough, are in a perpetual state of fiscal catastrophe.
The problem isn’t that taxes are too low, it’s that spending is too high, and too many people live at the expense of their neighbors, forever demanding “free” stuff. (How many Democrats have ever voted for a spending cut, aside from the military?)
So, NJ, CT, IL, and other leftist Meccas which lack the chic of SF or the Upper East Side, daily confront collapse. CT’s Dem gov admits, taxing the rich doesn’t work. Meanwhile, NC and TX eat leftist states’ economic lunch, and the leftist state often cited as the best – WA – imposes no income tax at all.
No, freedom won’t produce an instant boom, any more than socialism produces an instant collapse. But the results of each are inevitable. The evidence is clear and on display in Trenton, Hartford, Springfield, and other leftist capitals where the results of leftism are undeniably disastrous.
3
I expect you lot to get your facts wrong, but even by that standard it's pretty amazing to see you tring to pretend that California and New York don't exist
If the president want 4.5% GDP growth, he would be wise to pay attention to what California has consistently been doing for 35 years. It's the only state achieving this growth.
Sorry your experiment failed. But investment means growth. Gutting education and infrastructure spending to fund a tax cut to people who need the least help, is just plain stupid. Wake up.
Sorry your experiment failed. But investment means growth. Gutting education and infrastructure spending to fund a tax cut to people who need the least help, is just plain stupid. Wake up.
3
We have had 8 long years of failed Republican policies-I find it quite amusing you are trying to blame that on Democrats.
2
Tax cuts have never paid for themselves and we didn't need the failed Kansas experiment to prove it. So now we Trump's infrastructure proposal which famously was supposed to be a trillion dollar investment reduced to $200 billion of public funds (less than we are spending now in fact). If the gas tax was indexed to inflation when it was last raided (under Reagan no less) we would have sufficient funds to make the needed investments. Is too much to ask our legislators and leaders to exercise some common sense? The answer in Kansas was "no" now what about Washington DC?
4
What?! How shocking!
They couldn't just blame the slow growth on President Obama and hold out for the promised Trumperica revival?
It is so refreshing to see the dangerous "alternative" right-wing reality narrative fall apart when pressured by actual Reality.
This truly is a huge story. An ulcering of the belly of the beast.
They couldn't just blame the slow growth on President Obama and hold out for the promised Trumperica revival?
It is so refreshing to see the dangerous "alternative" right-wing reality narrative fall apart when pressured by actual Reality.
This truly is a huge story. An ulcering of the belly of the beast.
6
The state of Oklahoma is in much the same position as Kansas. We are struggling with a giant budget deficit and can't seem to find a way out of the terrible hole the conservatives have dug. Oklahoma's failed leadership on the other hand has never met a SALES TAX increase they did not like. Millions have been returned to the wealthiest in the state and conservatives now want to tax things such things as cigarettes, sports tickets, alcohol beverages served at movie theatres. Like Kansas, the state is a failure. While the rest of the nation enjoys a nice recovery the likes of Oklahoma and Kansas are drowning in a sea of self imposed silly.
4
Aw c'mon Kansans, don't give up!
Repeat after St. Ronnie:
"It's Not a Revenue Problem. It's a Spending Problem."
Ye Kansans of little faith shall suffer the wrath of Grover...
Repeat after St. Ronnie:
"It's Not a Revenue Problem. It's a Spending Problem."
Ye Kansans of little faith shall suffer the wrath of Grover...
3
The billionaire Koch were the ones that bled Kansas dry with their no tax insanity. The Koch brothers also lead in the effort to take money from the poor and give it to the rich. Plus, they're behind the fossil fuel mania. Politicians and media work for these guys. Is it too much to ask that we need to rid ourselves of the oligarchical Kochs and restore democracy?
9
"It’s not because of cable news, or social media or even the corrupting influence of big money in politics." Huh? Then why is it "Republicans won’t agree to a penny in tax increases of any kind"? Where they born that way?
I think you have confused cause (big money) and effect (tax cuts for the rich). You do remember the Bush tax cuts? Everybody got a tax cut, but if you were a multi-millionaire you got 10's of thousands and if you were middle class you got 10's of dollars. But everybody got a tax cut!
I think you have confused cause (big money) and effect (tax cuts for the rich). You do remember the Bush tax cuts? Everybody got a tax cut, but if you were a multi-millionaire you got 10's of thousands and if you were middle class you got 10's of dollars. But everybody got a tax cut!
2
Today's realty, all politicians will act only after the consequences of their stupidity hits home. Sadly as in Kansas it is too little, too late. The pain is not felt by the Koch brothers, they have staying power and should they gain more money, their idea of discretionary spending is to lay out more money to ensure they get more money.
As a disabled senior citizen I see nothing whatsoever in the current environment which encourages me to do anything but rely solely upon myself to get by. Minimizing my discretionary outlay provides a cushion for that which Ryan and company want to achieve.
As a disabled senior citizen I see nothing whatsoever in the current environment which encourages me to do anything but rely solely upon myself to get by. Minimizing my discretionary outlay provides a cushion for that which Ryan and company want to achieve.
1
May I just say that I really liked the way this piece was written. So concise, so straighforward. A rare (it seems) treat.
2
Kansas' experiment once again proves that conservatives are so dogmatic that they will continue with an unproved and discredited economic theory despite proof it doesn't work. Even now, Brownback keeps asserting that he just needs more time. As GHWB famously said, supply-side, trickle-down, give the rich incentives, etc., is nothing more than "voodoo" economics. And to think that Ryan and the Repubs are still pushing this cockamamie scheme in the House.
4
Let's see if we can understand why tax cuts for the Rich or more generally, income and wealth inequality, is bad for the economy. Economists have a concept called the velocity of money. It is the frequency, how often, that money changes hands in domestic commerce.
Here's an example. Suppose the government gives Scrooge McDuck a Billion for advice on the comic book market, If Scrooge puts the bucks in his basement, and forgets about it, that doesn't help the economy at all. That Billion has a velocity of 0. Also, if Scrooge loses a financial bet to Daddy Warbucks, and the Billion moves from Scrooge's basement to Daddy's, that is a change, but the velocity does not change because it is not a useful change. It doesn't affect commerce.
Money going to the Rich has a lower velocity than money going to the non-rich. The Rich spend a lower percentage of their money. What's a guy or gal who already has so many houses he can't remember how many & an elevator for his horse gonna spend his money on? The answer is he is going to use it to speculate.There is a correlation between inequality & financial speculation. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1661746 Speculation is bad for the economy. That money has a very low velocity. AND it increases risk which we have seen in 2008 ain't a good thing.
Since 2007, the velocity of money has plunged. https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2016/04/a-plodding-dollar-the-recent-dec...
Here's an example. Suppose the government gives Scrooge McDuck a Billion for advice on the comic book market, If Scrooge puts the bucks in his basement, and forgets about it, that doesn't help the economy at all. That Billion has a velocity of 0. Also, if Scrooge loses a financial bet to Daddy Warbucks, and the Billion moves from Scrooge's basement to Daddy's, that is a change, but the velocity does not change because it is not a useful change. It doesn't affect commerce.
Money going to the Rich has a lower velocity than money going to the non-rich. The Rich spend a lower percentage of their money. What's a guy or gal who already has so many houses he can't remember how many & an elevator for his horse gonna spend his money on? The answer is he is going to use it to speculate.There is a correlation between inequality & financial speculation. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1661746 Speculation is bad for the economy. That money has a very low velocity. AND it increases risk which we have seen in 2008 ain't a good thing.
Since 2007, the velocity of money has plunged. https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2016/04/a-plodding-dollar-the-recent-dec...
5
Great, you get your economic theories from comic books. Wealth, money, doesn't just sit, it works whether deposited in a bank, used to purchase stocks and bonds, lent, or in real estate. Try reading economic literature not bound with staples and learn.
1
And exactly how does money sitting in Scrooge McDuck's basement work to help the economy? What is your definition of the velocity of money? How quickly it moves from the poor to the Rich?
1
The Republican "supply side" and anti-tax mania are opposite sides of the same coin: the belief that (1) growth depends on investment (using resources that would otherwise be consumed to increase production) AND (2) that all investment is private -- any government spending, thus any taxation, can only increase consumption by some at the expense of the rest.
In fact, all (or close) investment has a public and private component: e.g. there would be no private automobile manufacturing industry without public investment in roads. Moreover, the Republican Party and its Whig/Federalist predecessors recognized/insisted on this long before the Democrats. Indeed, the Democrats historically opposed public investment ("internal improvements") as a sham which robbed farmers for the benefit of capitalists and city-dwellers.
The question is why the Hamiltonian party is now so bent on believing that public investment is a sham to rob the 53% for the 47%. Tomasky or whoever can use economic theory and/or economic history to debunk this. But it's the society, stupid. Logic and evidence cannot trump faith (core beliefs used as major premises in deduction, thus in weighing evidence). Any such faith arises and persists due to social conditions which must be understood and addressed. Calling it all "racist" won't do, though race, class and gender distinctions and attitudes are involved in any social phenomenon, including the "supply side faith" of Brownback et al.
In fact, all (or close) investment has a public and private component: e.g. there would be no private automobile manufacturing industry without public investment in roads. Moreover, the Republican Party and its Whig/Federalist predecessors recognized/insisted on this long before the Democrats. Indeed, the Democrats historically opposed public investment ("internal improvements") as a sham which robbed farmers for the benefit of capitalists and city-dwellers.
The question is why the Hamiltonian party is now so bent on believing that public investment is a sham to rob the 53% for the 47%. Tomasky or whoever can use economic theory and/or economic history to debunk this. But it's the society, stupid. Logic and evidence cannot trump faith (core beliefs used as major premises in deduction, thus in weighing evidence). Any such faith arises and persists due to social conditions which must be understood and addressed. Calling it all "racist" won't do, though race, class and gender distinctions and attitudes are involved in any social phenomenon, including the "supply side faith" of Brownback et al.
The no new taxes pledge reminds me of the zealots who won't support stem cell research. They change their tune when someone they know is afflicted, and they need it.
5
Michael Tomasky has earned the opportunity to be a Times columnist, should an opening arises. He is, at the least, insightful..at times, he's brilliant..and his writing style is easily understandable and full of verve. This piece is the latest in a long series that explains how we've gotten in the mess we're in and avoids the hand-wringing that so often accompanies suggestions for solutions
The experiment in supply side, "trickle down" economics as tried in a text book fashion the republican idealogues in Kansas. And the results of the experiment are in, the hypothesis was disconfirmed. Decisively. So to the washed up old fools at CNBC like Larry Kudlow and guys like Stephen Moore still allowed to publish in the WSJ they needed to be hooted off the stage the next time they drag discredited theory out yet again. They haven't change a plank in its platform in twenty years and even though it's been disproven, they can always resort to, "well it has been proven yet" or we "need an even purer form of supply side before we can prove it".
The science underneath their economic thesis has shown its falsehood. Republicans should no longer be able to bring it up in polite company as anything other than the elaborate rationalization it really is trying to fleece the public for their own pockets.
The science underneath their economic thesis has shown its falsehood. Republicans should no longer be able to bring it up in polite company as anything other than the elaborate rationalization it really is trying to fleece the public for their own pockets.
2
Reality is the Winner.
1
If you want to see what a disaster in state government looks like, just come to Illinois.
1
One would hope that the lack of funding we've experienced would make government oversight and budgeters more frugal. But that never seems to happen. I never stop suspecting huge amounts of graft, embezzlement, corruption, greed, and waste. Reuters did a study of the Pentagon, for example, showing massive and disgusting waste.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-defense-waste-idUSKBN13V08B
The Ayn Rand-influenced Paul Ryan, who believes in the self-correcting divine invisible hand of the marketplace and the power of competition, would not be for ending oil subsidies or farming subsidies, or for cutting military spending on weapons systems the armed forces do not want. They need maintenance and prefer the F-14, but get instead F-35s they do not care for.
What we also need is budgeting. I am old enough to remember William Proxmire's "Golden Fleece" award—the gold hand with finger raised—for that 1200 dollar military toilet seat, that 900 dollar coffee pot.
Let anyone try to supervise a military budget, and suddenly these ruthless Ayn Randers cry for the workers who produce what the military does not want or need. They whip up fear over the rest of world so we are afraid to streamline our bloated defense budget.
If everyone could reject the Laugher Curve out of hand, that'd be a great thing. But how about some accounting to go with that.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-defense-waste-idUSKBN13V08B
The Ayn Rand-influenced Paul Ryan, who believes in the self-correcting divine invisible hand of the marketplace and the power of competition, would not be for ending oil subsidies or farming subsidies, or for cutting military spending on weapons systems the armed forces do not want. They need maintenance and prefer the F-14, but get instead F-35s they do not care for.
What we also need is budgeting. I am old enough to remember William Proxmire's "Golden Fleece" award—the gold hand with finger raised—for that 1200 dollar military toilet seat, that 900 dollar coffee pot.
Let anyone try to supervise a military budget, and suddenly these ruthless Ayn Randers cry for the workers who produce what the military does not want or need. They whip up fear over the rest of world so we are afraid to streamline our bloated defense budget.
If everyone could reject the Laugher Curve out of hand, that'd be a great thing. But how about some accounting to go with that.
2
"So here’s hoping that Kansas represents a breakthrough moment. "
Sorry friend, you apparently don't live in CT where successive administrations have given away the store to pension settlements in hopes of garnering union support. What's left is a colossal budget problem that is running people and companies out of the state. You also don't apparently live in New York where an entire level of government, the counties, exists for absolutely no good reason. Many states exist without 3 levels of government . Surprise! You also apparently don't live in Illinois. I'll leave it you to look into the causes of that financial disaster but suffice it to say, it's not unlike CT. I'm a Democrat and have been one all my life from the moment my mom hiked me up to pull the lever for JFK. I say support those who need the support, make our schools strong (math, reading) but let's not pretend that disastrous governance isn't as huge a part of our problem as kooks like Brownback.
Sorry friend, you apparently don't live in CT where successive administrations have given away the store to pension settlements in hopes of garnering union support. What's left is a colossal budget problem that is running people and companies out of the state. You also don't apparently live in New York where an entire level of government, the counties, exists for absolutely no good reason. Many states exist without 3 levels of government . Surprise! You also apparently don't live in Illinois. I'll leave it you to look into the causes of that financial disaster but suffice it to say, it's not unlike CT. I'm a Democrat and have been one all my life from the moment my mom hiked me up to pull the lever for JFK. I say support those who need the support, make our schools strong (math, reading) but let's not pretend that disastrous governance isn't as huge a part of our problem as kooks like Brownback.
2
Kansas voters chose to re-elect Brownback in 2104 despite the obvious failure of his tax-cut "growth" promises and looming fiscal crisis. It was a re-play of that continuing refrain: "Why do people keep voting against their best interests?" Trump said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his poll numbers would go up, he groped women and bragged about it, and his business "success" was based on fraud and look what his voters got. If there's a common theme it's that we should never underestimate the ability of people to do stupid things.
4
Has Krugman heard about this yet? A very important example of theory going up in flames.
"It’s not because of cable news, or social media or even the corrupting influence of big money in politics."
Oh no. No no no. Conservative cable news shows like Fox and online outlets like Brietbart and Infowars have successfully driven deep wedges in our country. Their followers believe everything they say without question, and they still believe in birtherism, pizzagate, and that Obama is a criminal.
Even so, big money is far more influential because that money goes right into the pockets of politicians.
Oh no. No no no. Conservative cable news shows like Fox and online outlets like Brietbart and Infowars have successfully driven deep wedges in our country. Their followers believe everything they say without question, and they still believe in birtherism, pizzagate, and that Obama is a criminal.
Even so, big money is far more influential because that money goes right into the pockets of politicians.
1
I've got an idea, Mr. Tomasky. You should be volunteering to contribute more of your income to the public. Why stop at the rate of the tax bracket you're in? Are you so greedy that you would deny those who need it the resources you could spare? Oh, you can definitely spare resource for them. How does a 200% increase in your tax rate sound? Be a generous soul, you can handle it, after all, people like you are always deciding what people like me can handle in terms of finances. You love imposing your ideology on those like me, forcing those like me to endure greater financial hardships because we "can handle it." Your amazing financial expertise should help you out, after all, you know so well what each tax bracket can afford, all their bills and expenses and their daily lives, such wizardry should make this easy for you and those who support your positions!
1
The Left loves to bend the truth. In their vigorous attempt to prove that Brownback's tax cuts were a complete flop, they however, forgot to mention the biggest truth - THAT Brownback won reelection in 2014. That is the ultimate endorsement of his policies and is more important than the analyses of pompous authors like Tomasky.
If you own a house and you don't invest in keeping it up and let it run down and down, eventually the house will look pathetic and it will advertise the fact that no one cares about it enough to keep it up. This is what the US looks like in many states now. How can moving money upwards from the poorer to the richer help this situation? Do the rich not need good roads, healthy environment, clean water, clean air, healthy workers, educated workers, and the like, not to mention relatively conflict- free and plague- free living ? Money needs to move from the top down toward the poor and to the government departments that do what the individual cannot do to help these situations before it is too late. Thankfully Kansas saw the handwriting on the wall before it was indeed too late. Let's hope the rest of the country sees this also. Greed is not good. Greed is destructive. A well-run country saves a lot of money in the long run, because catastrophes are suppressed by conscientious care.
149
Destructive as this exercise was, it serves as a functional data point to illustrate what happens when supply side economics are relied upon to grow the economy and support the government. The catastrophic failed Kansas Experiment can be cited without resorting to graphs and tables that put Twitter users to sleep and are "so complex" as to be "fake news."
2
Supply side "voodoo"economics serves a central role in Republican theology, it offers an almost plausible rational that cutting taxes for millionaires and billionaires, the Republican raison d'être, will not increase the deficit.
That this never happens in Kansas or anywhere else in the real world matters not, as long as it serves the higher goal of easing the tax burden on the uber rich.
That Republicans still genuflect to the false God of a balanced budget is mere show and hypocrisy.
That this never happens in Kansas or anywhere else in the real world matters not, as long as it serves the higher goal of easing the tax burden on the uber rich.
That Republicans still genuflect to the false God of a balanced budget is mere show and hypocrisy.
104
Even a balanced household budget includes house, car, education and credit card debt with plans for servicing it, and set asides for maintenance and upgrades of both people and property, as well as a rainy day/ vacation/ education/ retirement fund.
It is becoming a cycle of sameness. Republicans cut services and, in the federal case, blow money on useless wars and defense buildups. The public is unhappy. Democrats are elected to repair the mess. Free bread and circuses do not ensue. Cleaning up the mess costs time and money. By the time repairs are made and strong important programs offered, and funding proposed, the public complains no rewards have come it's way and elects Republicans to do what they did before in hopes this time it will work and bread and circuses will be provided at no cost. The country, meanwhile, declines in a stop-start cycle. No, it has not forever been thus. There was a time we made progress. You have to be about 60 to remember.
253
James - This is one of the best and most lucid comments on the frustrating cycle of American political debate I have ever seen on these pages. And yes, age helps. I am going to steal your explanation, if it's ok -- the notion of a "stop-start cycle" is spot on.
Fortunately, in the area of civil rights we seem to be on a different pace. But my entire adult life (I'm a Reagan-era youth), our ideas of economic governance are stuck exactly as you say.
Fortunately, in the area of civil rights we seem to be on a different pace. But my entire adult life (I'm a Reagan-era youth), our ideas of economic governance are stuck exactly as you say.
As a Kansan I an tell you that most of us here were and still are big fans of the tax cuts. The reason that Brownback is so unpopular is because the masses are fickle; they want to have their cake and eat it too. Yes, the legislature cut taxes but they did not cut spending in a smart way. And no matter how smart they cut spending, people will start to complain about whatever it is that they used to get that they no longer get because of those spending cuts. My wife is a teacher and she can tell you that there is HUGE waste in the school system. Yet the KS supreme court ruled that the legislature is not spending enough on education. My wife teaches at a public school but we send our children to a private school; that tells you something. This article addresses this issue from just one perspective; which is exactly what I would expect from the NYT. There are two parts to this problem; 1. Taxes, 2. Spending. People on the left never address the fact that the government just spends too much money. But in any discussion on the topic they have the upper hand because the masses are fickle. Even people who think taxes should be lower will turn on a dime when an tax cuts affect them directly.
20
Please don't speak for most Kansans.
In other words, you take advantage of taxpayers via your wife's job and benefits and retirment (which, just so's ya know, unions got her), then keep your kid out of public school and crow about taxcuts and your cleverness.
Nice.
Nice.
6
James,
There is waste everywhere, public and private entities always have waste because human beings are far from perfect. Your wife is not an employee of the private school so she is just not privy to their waste.
There is waste everywhere, public and private entities always have waste because human beings are far from perfect. Your wife is not an employee of the private school so she is just not privy to their waste.
3
It will be interesting to see what the Koch brothers will do to the heretics. But it's a side show, the real money is in DC and both Parties in Congress are firmly in the pockets of the 1% and are sure to stay there.
3
If you really want to see a state in serious economic jeopardy, come to Connecticut. The massive tax increases passed in recent years by a Democratic house, senate and governor in order to reward all public sector employees has essentially killed the state's economy. Businesses are fleeing, top earners have moved out, the state capital city Hartford is going to declare bankruptcy and the state has a $2.3 Billion budget gap going into the next fiscal year. Even the Democrats have now realized they cannot raise taxes any more.
1
The myth that "government is the problem" has been promulgated by the handmaidens of the rich. Nothing is a bigger threat to the power of the rich and their would-be oligarchy than an effective government representing the interests of the people at large, and one way to undermine the government is to starve it of funding. We live in a democracy; we, the people, are, or should be, the government. So when the oligarchs or their surrogates say "government is the problem" they are essentially saying government by the people is the problem. And they are also saying that they, the oligarchs, should be in charge. (And as an added note, of course Grover Norquist has made himself very rich by working to starve the government and make it ineffective.) It is time to take back the government from the rich and their lackeys and return it to the people. How about no gerrymandering, no unlimited campaign financing, and term limits for starters?
8
Taxes, the one item we all love to hate. But the reality is that together our monies allow us education, healthcare, FEMA, Medicare, infrastructure,
Mililtary, etc. These are the things we can do with State and Federal taxes. The more liberal States offer a wide diversity of how the monies can be spent for the benefit of it's citizens. There are studies that indicate that countries that tax more are much better places to live, such as Norway.
The 1% have flourished under the benefits of the State and Federal Government, maybe they could share their luck with their less lucky citizens.
Compromise is not the devil here, yes discussions are necessary to decide what is necessary. But the Republican mantra of "no" is not good for a healthy Nation.
Mililtary, etc. These are the things we can do with State and Federal taxes. The more liberal States offer a wide diversity of how the monies can be spent for the benefit of it's citizens. There are studies that indicate that countries that tax more are much better places to live, such as Norway.
The 1% have flourished under the benefits of the State and Federal Government, maybe they could share their luck with their less lucky citizens.
Compromise is not the devil here, yes discussions are necessary to decide what is necessary. But the Republican mantra of "no" is not good for a healthy Nation.
10
What bears repeating is that when taxes on the wealthy go up, not only does the economy and society as a whole benefit, but the rich get richer. In the years after taxes on the wealthy were raised to pay for the ACA, the rich benefitted enormously. Their wealth skyrocketed. Raising taxes on the rich does not hurt them. Not at all.
8
Perhaps this has been pointed out in a previous comment, but all the Kansas Legislature did was restore collecting income tax on sole proprietorships, LLCs, and other "pass through" entities, which, prior to 2013, had always paid income tax. What we had for 4 years was only people who received a W-2s paying income tax. Most of those given the income tax break--yours truly included--thought it unfair to have a class of citizens which paid no income tax at all. Plus, the state simply could not afford it. In the end, it wasn't a change of politics which caused the still-Republican legislature to repeal the massive income tax break of 2012, but rather the absolute necessity to pay for essential government services and programs.
Kansas has always had good roads and schools, and the legislature was being required to sweep highway money into the general budget every year. Teachers and state employees were not receiving raises, and there was no new-business boom with new W-2 earners to offset the loss of tax revenue. High earning taxpayers ended up sending more tax income to D.C. because they didn't have a state income tax itemized deduction.
All the 2017 Kansas Legislature did was execute a rabid dog that should have been shot 4 years ago--nothing magical happened in the repeal of this disastrous and highly unfair income tax law. Don't kid yourself, Kansas is still a "red" state--although not quite as "red" as Oklahoma.
Kansas has always had good roads and schools, and the legislature was being required to sweep highway money into the general budget every year. Teachers and state employees were not receiving raises, and there was no new-business boom with new W-2 earners to offset the loss of tax revenue. High earning taxpayers ended up sending more tax income to D.C. because they didn't have a state income tax itemized deduction.
All the 2017 Kansas Legislature did was execute a rabid dog that should have been shot 4 years ago--nothing magical happened in the repeal of this disastrous and highly unfair income tax law. Don't kid yourself, Kansas is still a "red" state--although not quite as "red" as Oklahoma.
10
Brownback is what many on the far right, and ever encroaching on the rest of the GOP aspire to be.
A tax cutting, supply side Theocrat. He is utterly bound by two ideologies – evangelical Christianity, and supply side aka Voodoo economics.
Nothing makes me happier than this in his face rebuttal – other than Donald Trump moving to a foreign planet.
A tax cutting, supply side Theocrat. He is utterly bound by two ideologies – evangelical Christianity, and supply side aka Voodoo economics.
Nothing makes me happier than this in his face rebuttal – other than Donald Trump moving to a foreign planet.
20
I certainly hope the professional left will continue to monitor the Kansas "experiment" into the future, rather than simply declaring victory and moving on. After all, Kansas wasn't doing so well economically before the tax cut, which is why it was passed in the first place. And so, should we be surprised that as the national economy continued to under-perform, Kansas did as well? Will it now, as a result of these tax increases, over-perform? Count me skeptical. The left would have us believe that all economic prosperity stems from the fountain of big government. History, and our current national economic plight, suggest otherwise.
1
The "good old days" that most conservatives pine for occurred under Eisenhower, when the top tax bracket was 91%. It is inequality that causes markets to underperform. The poor and middle classes drive our economy. If they have more money, they spend it, creating demand, and the need for employers to hire more workers. This virtuous cycle is how our economy really works. The dogma of tricle down (or supply side, or voodoo) does not work, never has, never will.
3
Actually, history suggests that government pump,priming a la Keynes in poor economic times does indeed result in economic growth. You have been perhaps watching too much FOX and not reading enough economic history.
No one was doing well before the tax cut. There was the Bush recession, remember? What mattered was how the government responded to it.
At the national level, Obama and the Democratic congress passed an $800B stimulus over the objections of the GOP, which favored austerity and tax cuts. Now Kansas has fallen short of the rest of the country in recovering from the recession, even when compared to its immediate neighbors. And when compared to California, which implemented the exact opposite policy from Kansas and now leads the world in economic vitality, Kansas comes off like a 3rd-world failed state. Brownback isn't qualified to run a small school district and should be put out to pasture, and the people of Kansas should recognize that they've been conned by the GOP -- again.
At the national level, Obama and the Democratic congress passed an $800B stimulus over the objections of the GOP, which favored austerity and tax cuts. Now Kansas has fallen short of the rest of the country in recovering from the recession, even when compared to its immediate neighbors. And when compared to California, which implemented the exact opposite policy from Kansas and now leads the world in economic vitality, Kansas comes off like a 3rd-world failed state. Brownback isn't qualified to run a small school district and should be put out to pasture, and the people of Kansas should recognize that they've been conned by the GOP -- again.
1
If things improve in Kansas after this tax increase, do not expect that Democrats will gain any benefit from it. The GOP will claim all the credit. I don't know if they learned this from Trump, or Trump learned it from the GOP, but in contemporary America truth and facts are obsolete. Maybe they always have been. Certainly Democrats as an entity do not live up to their ideals, but at least they do have ideals, other than gun ownership, no taxes, belief in their own righteousness and a punitive, Puritan interpretation of belief devoid of compassion. Trump is not an anomaly. He is the modern GOP minus the civilized facade.
7
Let's force our representatives to disclose whether they have signed a "no taxes" pledge, and vote out those who have signed. It is the height of irresponsible to constantly vote to reduce taxes, and then never be able to gain back any funding, no matter what is happening. Vote out the people pledging "no taxes"!
11
This article assumes we have a flat tax structure in this nation. The wealthy already pay the vast majority of the tax burden while the bottom 40% pay virtually nothing? How much higher should taxes be?
2
So long as the USA insists on maintaining a massive, bloated military industrial complex that pours trillions of dollars down the toilet every year in some futile quest to bring "order" to the world--then the amount of tax revenues paid by the country's richest people should be significantly higher relative to the amount of wealth that they possess. The all-volunteer armed forces are filled with lower income people who have no better options in life. The least that hedge fund managers and others can do is pay higher rates of tax so that soldiers in Afghanistan have sufficient armor.
The biggest problem in the United States is that the most fervent anti-tax types in the country also tend to be the most belligerent supporters of permanent American hegemony over the globe. You can live in a low-tax or no-tax place, a la Hong Kong or the Cayman Islands, OR you can live in a country that pumps its military full of cash 24 hours a day. You can have one of these two things, but not both.
The biggest problem in the United States is that the most fervent anti-tax types in the country also tend to be the most belligerent supporters of permanent American hegemony over the globe. You can live in a low-tax or no-tax place, a la Hong Kong or the Cayman Islands, OR you can live in a country that pumps its military full of cash 24 hours a day. You can have one of these two things, but not both.
2
Something like 140 families control around 50% of the wealth in this country. The rich only get richer, the poor poorer, and the income gap massively expands. Don't know about you, but that looks worse and worse the further down the road we go to a place of the super rich being walled off in compounds and cut off from the rest of us.
You simply ignore that the wealthy also benefit in greater ways. Many of the tax cuts, exemptions, deferments, carried interest and complex gobbledegook etc, ONLY apply to them, and thus you can have a President who in 2005 or so paid essentially nothing in income tax and had a 900 and some odd million 'Loss'.
Taxation has to be fair, and those 40% you claim pay no taxes, do pay taxes on food, gas, utilities, clothing, etc.
The day that a business – most wealth comes from there – does not utilize the public infrastructure, roads, parts of rail and air traffic, electrical, water, and sewage grids, emergency services etc, is the day I will start to assess your ideas and ideas like them w/ more seriousness.
When Billionaires and Millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than I do, something is wrong. To whom much is given much is expected.
You simply ignore that the wealthy also benefit in greater ways. Many of the tax cuts, exemptions, deferments, carried interest and complex gobbledegook etc, ONLY apply to them, and thus you can have a President who in 2005 or so paid essentially nothing in income tax and had a 900 and some odd million 'Loss'.
Taxation has to be fair, and those 40% you claim pay no taxes, do pay taxes on food, gas, utilities, clothing, etc.
The day that a business – most wealth comes from there – does not utilize the public infrastructure, roads, parts of rail and air traffic, electrical, water, and sewage grids, emergency services etc, is the day I will start to assess your ideas and ideas like them w/ more seriousness.
When Billionaires and Millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than I do, something is wrong. To whom much is given much is expected.
6
You realize you've just presented damning evidence of inequality: people don't pay income tax when they earn so little that they need every penny just to try to stay afloat.
And you're talking only about income tax. Even the poorest people pay sales taxes. And everyone who has a job pays payroll taxes to support Medicare and Social Security—benefits that we earn because we pay for them, just as we pay for health insurance.
Except of course that people earning over $127,000 a year stop paying SS tax on anything over that. Somebody who earns $127 million earns the same amount (not the same rate) as someone earning $127,000. So the multimillionaire is paying an incredibly low rate. They're the freeloaders who, if taxed as the same rate as me, would guarantee the permanent solvency of Social Security.
You have a very simpleminded notion of taxes and paying your fair share.
And you're talking only about income tax. Even the poorest people pay sales taxes. And everyone who has a job pays payroll taxes to support Medicare and Social Security—benefits that we earn because we pay for them, just as we pay for health insurance.
Except of course that people earning over $127,000 a year stop paying SS tax on anything over that. Somebody who earns $127 million earns the same amount (not the same rate) as someone earning $127,000. So the multimillionaire is paying an incredibly low rate. They're the freeloaders who, if taxed as the same rate as me, would guarantee the permanent solvency of Social Security.
You have a very simpleminded notion of taxes and paying your fair share.
9
I'm no expert on economics but to me a few things are clear. Kansas state gov doesn't save any of the tax revenue it takes in. It spends it in Kansas. Kansas putting a little bit more money in the pockets of Kansans will ultimately end up somewhere else. Walmart or NYC. At least with Kansas government getting hold of the money for a short time keeps more jobs in Kansas, whether it be to pay state workers or contractors rebuilding roads, bridges, etc. Just a thought.
2
They didn't really raise taxes. They restored some cut to a level that made basic public services unfunded.
11
You get what you pay for, also as a society. I live in one of the most-taxed countries on earth, yet we are listed as the happiest people on the planet. Maybe it's because we don't have any anxiety about health care, tuitions or other things that can be huge expenses for American families.
47
Gary,
Yes! Why don't people realize that this trade-off exists?
Yes! Why don't people realize that this trade-off exists?
8
RMS, Answer: Selfish and self centered greed and fear, and a government which tells them this is the way to be and to ignore the moochers, and of course the shiny gilded example of the personification of this behavior – none other than Trump.
2
RMS or Gary, since you asked (Why don't people realize that this trade-off exists)?
Because the screaming idiots get more attention than a calm questioner.
Because the screaming idiots get more attention than a calm questioner.
4
Thanks for an explanation, in plain vanilla, of why taxes are needed. If our social bread is leavened, a reasonable tax is the yeast. This is not a difficult concept which leads me to consider the disagreement regarding taxation is of the purely venal.
8
The states were supposed to be incubators and test subjects for these types of ideas. We would then adopt the successful nationally. The GOP ideological obsession with taxes has broken this process.
They failed to acknowledge Mitt Romney's success in Massachusetts with health care. This eventually led to a consuming desire to repeal instead of fix broken pieces of Obamacare.
Republicans aren't learning from the contrasting economic policies in California, Washington state versus Kansas. They are not absorbing lessons from states that have adopted clean energy policies that have created lots of jobs. Instead we are now an international environmental joke that is embracing last centuries energy policies.
They failed to acknowledge Mitt Romney's success in Massachusetts with health care. This eventually led to a consuming desire to repeal instead of fix broken pieces of Obamacare.
Republicans aren't learning from the contrasting economic policies in California, Washington state versus Kansas. They are not absorbing lessons from states that have adopted clean energy policies that have created lots of jobs. Instead we are now an international environmental joke that is embracing last centuries energy policies.
15
This article offers a very polarized view. Republican's unwillingness to raise taxes is not why Congress has been unable to act for the last 20 some ought years. Our bi-party system and unwillingness to compromise would lend to a more well rounded view of the problem. Also, Republican's make a fair point (here me out for a second before you freak out) just simply raising taxes is not the answer. I believe that a progressive tax structure is the answer, people at the top should pay a little more to help those in the most need. But can we really say beyond a shadow of doubt that there is no government waste with our tax dollars? Republicans scream "No taxes" while liberals scream "Tax the rich" and we've just been unable to find a middle ground. I think that is a fairer evaluation of the current state of the political landscape.
2
Certainly there is some government waste. But there is also plenty of waste in the private sector. If the government waste is truly due to corruption, odds are you can hold someone accountable. With most private business (in this I include publicly traded companies) it is very difficult for an individual small shareholder (who often owns shares in a mutual fund versus the actual company) to ever get corporate management to change.
The real problem is that Republicans have engineered "safe" seats through the gerrymander. They only fear being primaried from the right. Compromising with Democrats will generate a primary challenge, so no compromise is the rule of the day. They have managed to grab the power, but they are unable to govern.
I have said for years that I could save all kinds of money each year if I never used my furnace, fed my children and pets only once per day, wore only one or two sets of clothes per week, did laundry only once a month, never bought a bed but slept on the floor, got rid of my car (I live 10 miles from, well, anything), and on and on. Think of the money I'd save!
Kansas just proved my point.
Kansas just proved my point.
27
When I moved from New Orleans to the Kansas City area, I was incredibly impressed with the conditions of the freeways, city services, parks were in fantastIf condition, and people would not stop bragging about the schools. I quickly got used to government giving me what I need as a citizen without anything unnecessary. And I also appreciated the fact that snow removal was effective (At least in comparison to the Missouri side of the metro).
Now, infrastructure is crumbling at such a fast rate, it's almost unbelievable. And the state government is lacking in basic services all the time due to budget cuts. I don't need government to do everything for me, but when the Philippines can provide better services to its citizens, you start to question competency of government officials. I'll pay taxes, but please, give me safe roads, good schools for the children who will run everything when I am old and make sure teachers, law enforcement, and fire personnel are paid reasonably. Is that too much to ask?
Now, infrastructure is crumbling at such a fast rate, it's almost unbelievable. And the state government is lacking in basic services all the time due to budget cuts. I don't need government to do everything for me, but when the Philippines can provide better services to its citizens, you start to question competency of government officials. I'll pay taxes, but please, give me safe roads, good schools for the children who will run everything when I am old and make sure teachers, law enforcement, and fire personnel are paid reasonably. Is that too much to ask?
33
Excellent comment. Brownback took all the money that was earmarked for the services 'anonymously' mentioned. Now our enviable infrastructure account surpluses are bust. He made sure that we will suffer from his fiscal mismanagement for years to come.
1
Rather than using the phrase "increase taxes," we should start saying "increase REVENUE."
It's less of a "red flag" term, and keeps the focus on what taxes are for --- to provide money to provide essential services, like schools and roads.
We should all get into the habit of framing if that way.
It's less of a "red flag" term, and keeps the focus on what taxes are for --- to provide money to provide essential services, like schools and roads.
We should all get into the habit of framing if that way.
12
Riiiiggghhhhtttt. Let's not tell people we taking the money they earned and giving to the government. Gosh, we wouldn't want people to make informed decisions, would we?!
Is the dawn coming at long last? What reason is there for the affluent and the misguided to hate taxes -- except plain old greed -- while public schools fail and we all complain about poor roads, government services, and infrastructure? Maybe President Trump will help us get a more balanced national tax system because as a "MAJOR" BUSINESS OWNER-PRESIDENT-TAX AVOIDANCE SPECIALIST (as he says "Smart!") he will continue not paying any taxes in any case.
10
Public investment in infrastructure, health care, communities, etc. is all good and worthwhile. But, another key element of progressive taxation that's not discussed in this article is that it (potentially, hopefully) puts more money in the pockets of people who will actually spend it, thereby boosting economic growth at the same time that it improves their quality of life. 30 years of 90% of all economic growth going to the top tier of wealthier Americans has brought us to this current state-of-affairs. Wealthy people don't spend their tax cuts; less wealthy people do.
14
I am all for tax increases to pay for what we need, but I am afraid all I will get is a tax cut (I expect around $1,000 a year - AGI in the low 60,000's, retired and single) -- which I do not need as I already have more money than I spend.
6
If we call what just happened in Kansas a tax increase, we are falling into the Republican terminology trap. This was a tax restoration, not an increase. We desperately need restoration of taxes at the federal level as well. My federal income tax has declined from 18% of my total income to 12-13% on the same amount of income over the last 20 years. Time to RESTORE sensible taxation.
40
Years ago I would go to Kansas occasionally. the people there were conservative and nice enough. The economy I dealt with revolved around grains and food processing. The joke was the difference between Kansas and yogurt. Yogurt has a live culture. Kansas is the ultimate flyover State. It is also a drive-through state for those of us snowbirds. Last year I got lost in the middle of southern Kansas because of a detour. I ended up in places that were as bad as impoverished third world countries I had worked in. It was a part of Kansas I had never seen before. The no tax experiment in Kansas was probably one of desperation. The kids were leaving and nobody was coming. The natives could see no other way to build up the economy for the average person. It did not work and made the situation worse.
20
Putting aside Mr. Tomasky's snarkiness, I can see the point of needing provide sufficient tax revenue for public purposes - especially at the state level which is where our Constitution mainly intended spending decisions to be made (see 10th amendment). However, there are a number of things standing in the way beyond Repub intransigence.
1. Liberals are just disingenuous - "Think we need to build bridges and roads and lay freight rail lines?" That's just a red herring. Very little of public funds are spent on such broadly popular public goods. Instead, 63% or $2.2 tn of our federal budget is spent on redistribution. And the typical state spends half its budget on Medicaid for the poor.
2. How much do the rich owe the poor ? - "Not only is it a tax increase — it’s even a progressive tax increase!" Liberals often lionize Europe's more generous welfare state. But they forget that Europe's taxes are much flatter than ours. For example, Denmark has a 25% VAT (sales tax) that hits everyone and income taxes vary only from 35% (for the poor) to 45% (for the rich).
3. Americans simply don't want to pay higher taxes - I'm not talking about conservative Kansans here. Rather, I'm referring to even liberals in VT and CO who each rejected single-payer healthcare because (in VT), it would have required a 9% increase in payroll taxes and 11% increase in income taxes. There is no free lunch. And so far, the government simply has proved to be inept and wasteful.
1. Liberals are just disingenuous - "Think we need to build bridges and roads and lay freight rail lines?" That's just a red herring. Very little of public funds are spent on such broadly popular public goods. Instead, 63% or $2.2 tn of our federal budget is spent on redistribution. And the typical state spends half its budget on Medicaid for the poor.
2. How much do the rich owe the poor ? - "Not only is it a tax increase — it’s even a progressive tax increase!" Liberals often lionize Europe's more generous welfare state. But they forget that Europe's taxes are much flatter than ours. For example, Denmark has a 25% VAT (sales tax) that hits everyone and income taxes vary only from 35% (for the poor) to 45% (for the rich).
3. Americans simply don't want to pay higher taxes - I'm not talking about conservative Kansans here. Rather, I'm referring to even liberals in VT and CO who each rejected single-payer healthcare because (in VT), it would have required a 9% increase in payroll taxes and 11% increase in income taxes. There is no free lunch. And so far, the government simply has proved to be inept and wasteful.
3
Sadly, I admit that you are right. Americans don't want to pay higher taxes. Perhaps even worse, Americans do not want the top 5%, the very wealthy, to pay higher taxes. Americans don't even want the top 2%, the only ones affected by the "death tax", to pay higher taxes. It is a puzzle, since the chances of an American moving from the bottom 80% to the top 5% in wealth is less than 1 in 100, less than in Denmark.
1
Princeton: Who ends up paying to help the poor? You do, one way or another. Poor people who don't have health insurance go to ERs, hospitals pick up the tab, hospitals require federal assistance. This would only drastically worsen with GOP health care plan. Trump promised people won't be "dying in the streets".....you would suggest otherwise.
Another commenter mentions getting lost on Kansas roads and being shocked to discover rural white poverty like he never knew existed in this country, as bad as third-world countries he's seen. I was shocked by a similar experience recently. I'd suggest you take a tour of rural backroads in poverty-stricken counties. If you want this nation to dissolve into the Hunger Games, keep your point of view, but I can guarantee it will not work out well for you or the country.
Another commenter mentions getting lost on Kansas roads and being shocked to discover rural white poverty like he never knew existed in this country, as bad as third-world countries he's seen. I was shocked by a similar experience recently. I'd suggest you take a tour of rural backroads in poverty-stricken counties. If you want this nation to dissolve into the Hunger Games, keep your point of view, but I can guarantee it will not work out well for you or the country.
Of the many fictions that Republicans have bought over the years, the Laffer Curve has to be one of the more pernicious. Reduce taxes, the Curve promised, and economic growth will be spurred such that tax receipts will actually rise.
The fiction has persisted in Republican circles, virtually an item of faith, despite the fact that it has NEVER been borne out in practice. It has NEVER received any empirical support.
Yet its presumed validity was the basis for Sam Brownback's disastrous policies. It's presumed validity is the basis for our Dear Leader's economic growth and deficit projections. And its presumed validity is the basis for Republican calls for the "dynamic scoring" of the budget. When your budget is based on a fiction, after all, it's much easier to bring it into balance.
The fiction has persisted in Republican circles, virtually an item of faith, despite the fact that it has NEVER been borne out in practice. It has NEVER received any empirical support.
Yet its presumed validity was the basis for Sam Brownback's disastrous policies. It's presumed validity is the basis for our Dear Leader's economic growth and deficit projections. And its presumed validity is the basis for Republican calls for the "dynamic scoring" of the budget. When your budget is based on a fiction, after all, it's much easier to bring it into balance.
15
Municipalities do not need to raise taxes to raise revenues.
A better way to raise revenue is through investment. Examples of good investments for municipalities include utilities, transportation, hospitals and airlines
A better way to raise revenue is through investment. Examples of good investments for municipalities include utilities, transportation, hospitals and airlines
perfectly clear editorial, succinctly wrapping up the problems of today's political culture and our national development doldrums in a bright red bow! This GOP would never build the interstate hiway system, the great Western dam projects or send men to the moon. All of this public tax expenditure reaped and continues to generate enormous (Huge!) economic rewards and helped place us as THE preeminent power internationally. Wouldn't want that....noooo.
7
Weird, and here was me thinking Eisenhower was a Republican.
1
Now if the Kanas legislature supported Planed Parenthood, they would have entered the 21st. century.
6
As awful as Christie and Brownback have been as governors why were they reelected?
8
Election campaigns aren't governing. No one is disputing they weren't (re)elected.
So you are saying their records and actions don't affect the results of their elections? Sorry, that makes very little sense.
Daniel, I cannot speak for New Jersey, but we, here in Kansas, are wondering how brownie got reelected too. However, kobach has blocked every attempt for an accounting of votes. So the stench still remains.
4
You are correct, but the other pice of bad news, is the Chris Kolbach just announced he is running for governor. The stage is set for The Empire Strikes Back.
3
Hopefully he will crash and burn. He is as much a stooge for the kochs as brownie.
2
I often wonder: There are Republicans who are smart and compassionate, why don't they understand taxing is essential if we want to continue keep this big American machine working. Somewhere along the way, they hit a disconnect and decide the logical steps for a society to progress and prosper are awful, distasteful and evil.
I don't get ...
I'm happy for Kansas though, obviously no other GOP states will take notice, as poor and backward as they are.
I don't get ...
I'm happy for Kansas though, obviously no other GOP states will take notice, as poor and backward as they are.
4
It is cause over truth. The party that calls itself republican is but a cult of anti-liberalism. Stirred to insanity by cheer-leaders preaching the book of Reagan. But when presented with overwhelming evidence that their very pronouncements are nonsense, they claim its all been politicized, and then blame the press.
A cult founded on stubborn self-induced ignorance, whose political tools of choice are distortion and character assassination. These are not the ways of Christ.
A cult founded on stubborn self-induced ignorance, whose political tools of choice are distortion and character assassination. These are not the ways of Christ.
14
Send Norquist to Kansas and see how much traction he gets.
4
The problem you write of, in my opinion, has nothing to do with the local governance and everything to do with individual citizens. Cutting government expenditures and lowing taxes clearly is just the common sense thing to do. This would, of course, result in less government --- for lack of a better word -- guidance as to how each person should or should not create their own lives.
I would be interested to know the truthful figures as to how many new businesses were created in the given time frame. And also the impact of the federal influence needs to be analyzed.
I would be interested to know the truthful figures as to how many new businesses were created in the given time frame. And also the impact of the federal influence needs to be analyzed.
1
The media spends a lot of time focusing on Trump's base---that 37% or so that will follow Trump down any dark alley he chooses. For whatever reason, and there are many, these voters continue to support this aberration, I believe he is an aberration, a wildcard, someone individuals gambled on. However, and Kansas is a good example, as the days, months, and years roll on, people will expect performance at some point, maybe not that 30 or so %, but those who gambled will at some point "call" the bet, as they did in Kansas.
11
Tax policy for Republicans mirrors the Evangelical's belief in an invisible friend. They "know" supply side is true, just as they "know" that heaven is a wonderful place. Trying to convince them otherwise requires conversion.
And how do conversions occur? When the "believer" feels enough personal pain, dissonance, or fear they will look outside their bubble for answers. There are formulas to burst that bubble, but facts are not part of the formula.
And how do conversions occur? When the "believer" feels enough personal pain, dissonance, or fear they will look outside their bubble for answers. There are formulas to burst that bubble, but facts are not part of the formula.
13
A crucial difference.
Evangelical churches are open to all.
The Republican Party exists only to serve the interests of the rich, they are Bizarro Robin Hoods in reverse.
Evangelical churches are open to all.
The Republican Party exists only to serve the interests of the rich, they are Bizarro Robin Hoods in reverse.
4
I am one that believes that raising taxes is at the last options and to make the most out of the resources presently there. However, you can't be afraid to do what you need to do for the betterment of the state. And, you can't be so wrapped in an ideology and your own self righteousness that the only thing you hear is your words. Growth really never came to Kansas, as in other states. More and more, some believe in privatizing any gains and socializing the losses.
7
America's heartland has finally come to its senses and realized that living within one's means is wrong.
1
Brown's apologists, lawyers, and even Tweets defend his cuts by basically stating he never said (explicitly) it would work,...
He only Hoped it would.
He only Hoped it would.
7
Mr. Tomasky- while I agree with you that taxes need to be raised at certain times, for specific reasons, you are much to quick to give those wascally Wepublicans all of the blame. I don't blame the Republicans for not wanting to increase taxes. Somebody has to hold the line on Democrats who believe that what you get to keep out of your paycheck is due to a forgiving and kind bog brother. You also conveniently do not mention that Kansas residents are already taxed by the existing taxes already on the books.
One question that you and the left never ask or answer is- How much taxation is too much?
One question that you and the left never ask or answer is- How much taxation is too much?
Some times non-Democrats like Bernie Sanders act like all income belong to the government. Democrats recognize that despite what people say most want government services and help. For those to work they need to be paid for.
3
Considering that at our very best economic condition our top tax rates were over 90%, under President Eisenhower, I would say we have a LONG ways to go before we reach the limit of too much taxation. We have way too many Fortune 500 Crporations that pay little to no taxes, and some of them actually get huge returns.
Also, as the story mentioned, the Kansas taxes were radically slashed prior, so they have only been restored, as is proper.
Also, as the story mentioned, the Kansas taxes were radically slashed prior, so they have only been restored, as is proper.
4
Tom, you just said you don't blame Republicans for not wanting to increase taxes so what is your argument for that? It is not about how much taxes we pay it is about what kind of society do we want. If people who vote Republican ever studied economic history they would know that the level of taxation corresponds only to increasing or decreasing degrees of economic inequality. If you want Social Security you have to pay for it. Want Medicare? you have to pay for it. Similarly, cutting taxes means you have deficits and new interest payments on that debt or you cut government spending which reduces GDP and that reduces jobs. Republicans said cut taxes and there would be larger growth, more jobs and economic happiness. There was growth but only for a privileged few while the majority suffered and continues to. Why is that? They cut income taxes for the very wealthy by a whole lot because interest income and capital gains are taxed at a much lower rate than people who work. With the wealthy paying less, we incurred deficits and increased sales, excise and property taxes while cutting back on spending. All so the very rich could get richer and everybody else got poorer. We all know we didn't lower the AMT did we? Corporate taxes were cut by 50% as a percentage of GDP that they used to pay via loopholes and offshoring. Those corporate tax cuts are equal to the current federal deficit. So we lowered taxes for the wealthy and socialized the costs to the public. You reap the whirlwind.
6
If the Fed as represented by the Republican Congress doesn't want to spend, and the states don't want to spend either, then just about everything fails. Kansas is a case in point.
Riding on the heels of Kansas is the declaration by Trump that his vaunted infrastructure plan will be in the hands of the states. He is painfully unrealistic and inept if he thinks this is the solution.
The Republicans continue to ignore a huge portion of our population and their continued support of Trump is an insult to us all.
Riding on the heels of Kansas is the declaration by Trump that his vaunted infrastructure plan will be in the hands of the states. He is painfully unrealistic and inept if he thinks this is the solution.
The Republicans continue to ignore a huge portion of our population and their continued support of Trump is an insult to us all.
9
Don't expect the Trump GOP Congress or it's "leader" Trump to raise taxes to pay for anything. Their agenda is different: stripping 23 millions of health care so the rich can get a tax cut.
Grover Norquist's no-tax pledge is without a doubt the most asinine, short-sighted, legally unenforceable, and destructive piece of political theater foisted on Americans in my lifetime. It is the anchor Wiley Coyote latches onto as the cliff edge crumbles from beneath his feet.
By refusing to even consider tax increases, the Republican Party is saying, "The current state of affairs is as good as it gets. Live with it." The problem is, a lot of people are harmed, dying or dead thanks to this feet-in-concrete, head-in-the-sand pledge.
By refusing to even consider tax increases, the Republican Party is saying, "The current state of affairs is as good as it gets. Live with it." The problem is, a lot of people are harmed, dying or dead thanks to this feet-in-concrete, head-in-the-sand pledge.
19
Our thanks to the people of Kansas, who bravely volunteered to be the test subjects for this trickle-down disaster. They will be living with its ill effects for a long time, so let's learn from this and not let their sacrifice be in vain.
16
How about if our tax money was managed better, wouldn't that help?
6
Rumor has it, in the end even Brownback knew they weren't working. He vetoed to save face and then told leadership to override the veto behind closed doors. We'll never know for sure it it's true, but it is suggestive.
6
Kansans are so thick-headed that they re-elected Brownback. The madness will continue because Kansans believe the supply-side mantra.
5
Republcans will support tax increases at the federal level, but not until AFTER they ruin the country.
6
[Sam Brownback sings . . .]
Somewhere over the rainbow tax cuts work
There's a land that I heard of once in a Laffer Curve
Somewhere over the rainbow tax is low
And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true
Someday I'll wish upon a star
And wake up where the business grows
Around me
Where job creators earn their wealth
It trickles down to everyone else
That's where you'll find me
Somewhere over the rainbow tax cuts fly
The Kochs fly under the radar
Why then, oh, why can't I?
Somewhere over the rainbow tax cuts work
There's a land that I heard of once in a Laffer Curve
Somewhere over the rainbow tax is low
And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true
Someday I'll wish upon a star
And wake up where the business grows
Around me
Where job creators earn their wealth
It trickles down to everyone else
That's where you'll find me
Somewhere over the rainbow tax cuts fly
The Kochs fly under the radar
Why then, oh, why can't I?
8
Outstanding!
Should be a NY Times pick, it would be if I got to vote.
Should be a NY Times pick, it would be if I got to vote.
I might have missed something, but the good people of Kansas have voted Brownback back into power and have kept the legislature as red as they can be. They really must have wanted to give a tax cut to the few. Why, oh why, should any other people living in other states be concern with Kansas. What did the Democratic Governor of a border state say about this? That what Kansas was doing is great for his state. I really want to see how this reprehensible "experiment" end. There are still more to do before the end. There are still some roads and bridges that haven't collapsed yet. There are still some educated students in Kansas. Please Kansas, don't stop now. Keep going.
3
The proof that supply side economics does not work is plentiful and yet Republicans keep at it because it's a false religion, an ideology divorced from reality. People vote Republican because they have been groomed to hate taxes, first by Ronald Reagan who told them it's your money, you should have it. Good morning America.
from this article : "for one thing, very few Americans know the above, because no one talks about it (hello, Democrats)" This is my big complaint about Democrats, they don't stick their necks out; they don't shout it from every hilltop (as they should) even when they have the facts on their side.
from this article : "for one thing, very few Americans know the above, because no one talks about it (hello, Democrats)" This is my big complaint about Democrats, they don't stick their necks out; they don't shout it from every hilltop (as they should) even when they have the facts on their side.
7
Good column. When George HW Bush raised taxes in 1990 after pledging "read my lips, no new taxes", and then lost reelection in 1992 in part due to a lot of his voters staying home over his broken pledge, this to me was shot heard loud and clear by all Republicans. But, times are changing even in ruby red Kansas. Brownbeck starved the beast, and he has about killed the State he was elected to lead. Truly one of the greatest failed Governors in history. Even Kansas Republicans now realize what a disaster they have wrought upon their fellow citizens and have stood up to their recalcitrant leader and finally have done the "right" thing in passing the largest tax increase in state history. Kansas Republicans have passed the largest tax increase in State history - this is what shots around the world sound like, a game changer.
4
This may be a ray of sunshine, but I would not put away my umbrella yet.
If there is one thing that the GOP has proven is its immense ability to ignore facts.
If there is one thing that the GOP has proven is its immense ability to ignore facts.
11
I incline conservative , especially on social issues, and I quit the Republican Party over this. I remember when to be conservative was to be anti deficits. Certain aspects of "big government" are truly a cancer. But you don't shrink a cancer by starving the patient.
7
What an inane article. Republicans won't raise taxes because taxes are already far too high, including on the wealthy. As someone in the 1%, I already pay an absurd 50% of my income in combined federal, state and city taxes. That's too much by any reasonable standard! In Kansas, taxes were cut and then restored, which is a whole different scenario. Don't get your hopes up. We will still fight the good fight against even more taxes. Want to pay for those broadband lines? Look to the tremendous outlays of Medicare and Medicare. Lots of room to cut there.
1
Wrong. You don't pay enough. Your lot did just fine paying 90% in the Eisenhower era.
8
DRS, really? I live in Kansas - and the tax RESTORATION and NOT a tax hike, needed to take place. This state has been run into the ground by the current governor and crop of repbublicans. The last mid-term elections saw a bunch of his, and the koch's cronies shown the door. And even the remaining republicans saw that what they were doing wasn't working.
I am certainly not one of the 1% people - but let me assure you that between federal, state, county and local taxes, I am paying 30-40 percent. Taxes are a necessary evil - the problem is how it is spent.
When the current governor and legislature made the cuts, it was the upper echelon that reaped the benefits, and NOT the average person.
I am certainly not one of the 1% people - but let me assure you that between federal, state, county and local taxes, I am paying 30-40 percent. Taxes are a necessary evil - the problem is how it is spent.
When the current governor and legislature made the cuts, it was the upper echelon that reaped the benefits, and NOT the average person.
7
Why should "the rich" pay 90%? That is criminally confiscatory. I'm sure the commenter pays more in taxes than my gross income, but I don't begrudge his income or his lifestyle. It's his money. Why should the government take 90% of it? That's robbery.
"It’s not because of cable news, or social media or even the corrupting influence of big money in politics."
Do you not really believe that the influence of those like the Koch brothers' big money is not involved? Of course it is. Where do you think the money comes from to support candidates to challenge incumbent Republicans who already to the right of Attila the Hun?
Do you not really believe that the influence of those like the Koch brothers' big money is not involved? Of course it is. Where do you think the money comes from to support candidates to challenge incumbent Republicans who already to the right of Attila the Hun?
5
I'll believe it when Kobach doesn't succeed Brownback.
8
Trickle-down economics is like the last half hour in a game of monopoly. Great if you're the guy who owns the railroads and expensive properties, but a slow death for everyone else.
In Kansas it was Brownback and the Koch's, raking it in every turn, telling the rest of us - hold on - you'll be able to come back on your next turn!
Sad.
In Kansas it was Brownback and the Koch's, raking it in every turn, telling the rest of us - hold on - you'll be able to come back on your next turn!
Sad.
6
But is took a melt down for the blind to see. Not very encouraging for the nation as a whole.
3
Somehow I think the Repub Party will not be smelling any covfefe anytime soon, despite the Kansan evidence. They will cite a million excuses as to why it didn't work in Kansas at this particular time, why it WILL work, why it's sound, blah blah blah.
As another commenter in this paper once said, taxes are their Holy Communion, their raison d'etre. Religion and faith has been completely entwined into the Repub Party so that politics have come to seem like a different arm of their church. Church of Tax Cuts. If you only Believe, it will work.....
I wish Kansas would reverse this, but I suspect not....not to mention that there's too much money in it for them, and the Kochs and Mercers, et al.
As another commenter in this paper once said, taxes are their Holy Communion, their raison d'etre. Religion and faith has been completely entwined into the Repub Party so that politics have come to seem like a different arm of their church. Church of Tax Cuts. If you only Believe, it will work.....
I wish Kansas would reverse this, but I suspect not....not to mention that there's too much money in it for them, and the Kochs and Mercers, et al.
6
Trickle down never worked because of rich men's innate greed. Look at the behavior of the trashy Trump family, for instance, stealing money from taxpayers to finance their lavish lifestyles, then stuffing workers and students and suing right and left. What's needed now is a welfare state and upright progresssive citizens working for the public good, which means destroying the cheap, greedy GOP until not a smithereen of their anti tax agenda remains.
1
Every Democrat everywhere should make Kansas the first line of attack in any election. Tax cuts do not generate growth. Period. You want proof? Kansas. Brownback ran on it. The Republicans there all signed on for it, even though it NEVER has worked. And guess what? Despite the fact that they did it ALL their way, it failed miserably. C'mon Democrats, don't let us down. You have the sword. Use it!
3
As I recall, Kansas voters re-elected Brownback in 2016 despite the overwhelming evidence that his supply side "experiment" had been a disaster. What took their legislators so lomg.
Accordingly, the question is now, how long will the two dozen or so Republican-controlled states take to act on their looming "iceberg." Considering the fact that adherence to the supply side myth is part of their "faith", I expect they will follow the Kansas model and simply wait unit their state faces bankruptcy before acting.
Accordingly, the question is now, how long will the two dozen or so Republican-controlled states take to act on their looming "iceberg." Considering the fact that adherence to the supply side myth is part of their "faith", I expect they will follow the Kansas model and simply wait unit their state faces bankruptcy before acting.
2
Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell want to do to the country what Sam Brownback did to Kansas. Republicans gave up on fiscal responsibility long ago. Now they are just the party of tax cuts.
Republicans are happy to fund tax cuts by increasing the deficit.
Everyone knows Republicans don't pay their bills.
Republicans are happy to fund tax cuts by increasing the deficit.
Everyone knows Republicans don't pay their bills.
5
Paying the bills is paramount. While state govt isn't a business, similar accounting and financial principles apply. Balance between income (tax income) and spending (gov't expenditures) is required.
First rule: DO NOT spend more money than is raised via taxes.
Second rule: This is the real world = Deal with it. Theories are interesting, but if they don't work to pay the bills, change the theory. Physics, accounting principles, and other hard sciences (no fuzzy opinions or faith based fantasies) are more likely to provide accurate data and provide reliable predictions (fortune telling?) and results. For those that need the reassurance, "God will understand."
Third rule:
- in a cooperative atmosphere, discuss and debated priorities and decide how best to achieve them; create law to set in motion the tools needed to achieve the desired results
- our political representatives must make the tough decisions that will produce the anticipated results.
- it is the representative's job to educate their constituents (the taxpayers); explain why they made the decisions they did and how it will benefit us..or most of us.
- if safety nets are required for some less fortunate people, explain what they are and how they will benefit all of us..not just the direct beneficiaries of the safety nets.
First rule: DO NOT spend more money than is raised via taxes.
Second rule: This is the real world = Deal with it. Theories are interesting, but if they don't work to pay the bills, change the theory. Physics, accounting principles, and other hard sciences (no fuzzy opinions or faith based fantasies) are more likely to provide accurate data and provide reliable predictions (fortune telling?) and results. For those that need the reassurance, "God will understand."
Third rule:
- in a cooperative atmosphere, discuss and debated priorities and decide how best to achieve them; create law to set in motion the tools needed to achieve the desired results
- our political representatives must make the tough decisions that will produce the anticipated results.
- it is the representative's job to educate their constituents (the taxpayers); explain why they made the decisions they did and how it will benefit us..or most of us.
- if safety nets are required for some less fortunate people, explain what they are and how they will benefit all of us..not just the direct beneficiaries of the safety nets.
The real damage of the Kansas experiment is that people think its results apply to the Federal government. Kansas, wonderful place that it may be, does not issue the world's reserve currency. No one is clamoring for Kansas paper to store their trade surplus. No one uses Kansas money to pay for oil. The Federal reserve will not buy Kansas bonds for newly printed money. Kansas teaches us NOTHING about deficit spending by the world's economic hegemon of money it can print in whatever quantities the world will accept at a level value.
1
If we change our attitude that any form of taxation as a drain on the economy to an attitude that it is a contribution to the "Commonwealth" then, properly stewarded, the economy for all will rise. As a symbol, the next time a state legislature raises taxes they should change, as a symbol, the name of their state, if it already isn't, to the "Commonwealth of..."
4
I am a native Kansan, and have watched the Brownback/Republican debacle unfold as more states have signed on to this agenda (Wisconsin, Iowa, etc.) Folks, look to DC now. Paul Ryan, a former Brownback aid, is preparing to do to the US what his old boss did to Kansas: cut government services to the needy, lower taxes on the wealthy, cut health care benefits. The Republicans are now meeting in secret to craft a health care bill that fits this agenda. Don't wait for this to prove catastrophic. Vote in 2018 to end Republican control of both the House and the Senate!
25
Below the national level, moving money from one pocket to another is a half-measure. Only the national government can create wealth through appropriations, balanced by taxation to control the money supply.
2
It has been proven over and over that the (recent) Republican (trickle-down) economics are a failure. And when they need to spur the economy, failing by their own fault, they go to war.
And by the way, Republican states are those most dependent on government's subsidies, proving the fact that they need that taxes money.
And by the way, Republican states are those most dependent on government's subsidies, proving the fact that they need that taxes money.
14
The GOP position on taxes vs. the Democratic position is a philosophical comparison of GOP "greed is a good motivator" vs. the Dems view that tax money is the price we pay for the privilege of living in a stable and compassionate society.
Paul Ryan says that he believes in compassion from the bottom up wherein everyone prospers through hard work (greed as a motivator) by those at the bottom, rather that top down government creating artificial prosperity which encourages laziness.
In instead of "bottom up" occurring, the fact of the matter is that Ryan's theory results in "bottom goes down" and "up goes up" wherein the standard of living disparity increases and increases. The trickle down economics just does not work, as was demonstrated in Kansas. But, the greed principle and the greed of those in GOP power is deeply entrenched. Hopefully, the Kansas example will change the thinking by proving how wrong it is.
Paul Ryan says that he believes in compassion from the bottom up wherein everyone prospers through hard work (greed as a motivator) by those at the bottom, rather that top down government creating artificial prosperity which encourages laziness.
In instead of "bottom up" occurring, the fact of the matter is that Ryan's theory results in "bottom goes down" and "up goes up" wherein the standard of living disparity increases and increases. The trickle down economics just does not work, as was demonstrated in Kansas. But, the greed principle and the greed of those in GOP power is deeply entrenched. Hopefully, the Kansas example will change the thinking by proving how wrong it is.
14
If you want to bring everything up to date in Kansas City one has no choice but to raise taxes. Trump will find this is necessary on the national level soon enough. Unless he has bankruptcy in mind. There are those republicans who are not adverse to this strategy.
4
Nonsense. Before talking about raising taxes on the national level, how about cutting the bloated defense budget?
Cutting taxes on the rich is the worst way to try to stimulate an economy. It kills me that Trickle Down is still the mantra of the GOP.
Suppose the economy tanks and a factory lays off 100 workers. Why did they do that? Because they were not selling as many goods as before, so they cut back production. Why manufacture what you cannot sell?
Cutting taxes on the rich will not give that factory one more customer. Cutting taxes on lower income workers will. They will be able to buy again, the factory will ramp up production again.
The beauty of this is that the only way to lift the economy for rich and poor alike is to do something that has as its most immediate effect helping those who are suffering the most.
Why can't the GOP see this?
Hopefully Kansas' grand experiment will open their eyes.
Suppose the economy tanks and a factory lays off 100 workers. Why did they do that? Because they were not selling as many goods as before, so they cut back production. Why manufacture what you cannot sell?
Cutting taxes on the rich will not give that factory one more customer. Cutting taxes on lower income workers will. They will be able to buy again, the factory will ramp up production again.
The beauty of this is that the only way to lift the economy for rich and poor alike is to do something that has as its most immediate effect helping those who are suffering the most.
Why can't the GOP see this?
Hopefully Kansas' grand experiment will open their eyes.
13
Thank you for that basic primer on economics which the Republicans Ignore. I have read that the government action with the largest multiplier effect on the economy is food stamps. 100% goes back into the economy.
5
Vice President Mondale was right when he called for new taxes in his 1984 acceptance speech. George H. Bush called supply side voodoo economics.
Mondale was speaking truth to the American people. We continue our downward spiral because the extreme greed of the top 5% has destroyed the middle class.
Mondale was speaking truth to the American people. We continue our downward spiral because the extreme greed of the top 5% has destroyed the middle class.
9
An analogy to supply side taxing policies:
You own a condo and the monthly assessment are bare bones. Only covers the basics. No investment, no future projects just day to day expenses. You buy the condo because everything being equal you love the very low assessments. Guess what? The seller stuck you with the bill for a new roof, new furnace, new Windows....It's called a special assessment.
The greed over the last 40 plus years is terrible. It started with Reagan and today's GOP is destroying everything from health care to needed infrastructure investments. They want your social security money as well.....
Unlike a condo, it is a much longer and devastating problem when we delay much needed investments.
You own a condo and the monthly assessment are bare bones. Only covers the basics. No investment, no future projects just day to day expenses. You buy the condo because everything being equal you love the very low assessments. Guess what? The seller stuck you with the bill for a new roof, new furnace, new Windows....It's called a special assessment.
The greed over the last 40 plus years is terrible. It started with Reagan and today's GOP is destroying everything from health care to needed infrastructure investments. They want your social security money as well.....
Unlike a condo, it is a much longer and devastating problem when we delay much needed investments.
13
The problem with Republicans is a deep-rooted sense of will denial and ignorance. Be it taxes or regulation as individual politicians or as a party the discernment of what is a cause and what is an effect is intentionally misrepresented. If your sole reason for existence is to represent big money then in order to gain political power from the masses you'll need a mighty strong marketing campaign that sells revisionist history and nostalgia for the past that never existed.
4
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Brownback has traded the future for the here and now. Adam Smith warned about investing when he said ' invest locally, first.' Tax cuts are all fine and dandy but if the tax cuts are taken from the coffers of Kansas and sent to wall street and invested around the world, how does that help Kansas?
Just asking.
Just asking.
4
Let's make the tax even more progressive, significantly higher on those over 250K and WAY high on those stealing, oops, "earning" over 500K per year. The part above 500K should be taxed at 75%, and the part over a mill, at 90%. Because it's all disposable income anyway at that level and was only gotten anyway because of a gamed system or who they knew or just getting lucky. Let's stop the kissing their feet already.
Seriously these C suite types hauling in multi millions each year do not merit these incomes anyway.
Seriously these C suite types hauling in multi millions each year do not merit these incomes anyway.
6
Unfortunately I remember the legal game playing of the years when thevrate was 90% and 70%. I don't want to go back to that. The few and the rich don't have enough money to support this country on their own.
Grover Norquist has a lot to answer for. I would like to invite him, along with all the politicians who signed his pledge, to move to Somalia, where they basically have a government "small enough to drown in a bathtub" (I am quoting him). Or for conservatives looking for small government, a strong military, and traditional family values, I suggest moving to a flourishing country such as Pakistan.
Best of luck to Kansans: hope they can maintain their new-found sense through their next election.
Best of luck to Kansans: hope they can maintain their new-found sense through their next election.
19
I agree Cheryl,
Norquist lives in some fantasy world that where "everybody is above average" and plays by and cooperates with identical rules.
His privileged life hasn't ever required him to live in the real world. His destructive ideas and behaviors are as dangerous as the people who pontificate from the other end of the political spectrum.
Norquist lives in some fantasy world that where "everybody is above average" and plays by and cooperates with identical rules.
His privileged life hasn't ever required him to live in the real world. His destructive ideas and behaviors are as dangerous as the people who pontificate from the other end of the political spectrum.
2
Can it be possible? Could the Republican Party of today become the GOP of yesterday, returning to its roots as a party of governance instead of spitefully pure partisanship. I doubt in my lifetime, but I have children and grandchildren, as does much of the country my age, so I'll dare to hope a little, just a little.
8
Thank you, Kansas! May other states follow your lead.
9
The Kansas City Star did a post mortem on these tax cuts, interviewing a number of citizens who had supported these cuts in the beginning. Almost all had come to the realization of the disaster these tax cuts had created. To keep the state running, they stole from education, roads, state pensions, and did creative accounting as to future revenues. Most admitted that it saved them about $5000 which is not enough to hire new employees or expand.
There was also a sales tax increase to deal with the deficit. And who does sales taxes hurt the most? The poor.
Had it not been for the state supreme court ordering that the schools be properly funded this might not have happened, even with a mini revolution at the polls electing more moderate Republicans and Democrats this last year.
Maybe there is hope for Brownbackistan. There will be no hope for this country if we go down the same rabbit hope as proposed ( on a single page) by Trump.
There was also a sales tax increase to deal with the deficit. And who does sales taxes hurt the most? The poor.
Had it not been for the state supreme court ordering that the schools be properly funded this might not have happened, even with a mini revolution at the polls electing more moderate Republicans and Democrats this last year.
Maybe there is hope for Brownbackistan. There will be no hope for this country if we go down the same rabbit hope as proposed ( on a single page) by Trump.
23
Left Kansas in 2002 , gone are the days of Bob Dole and Nancy Kassebaum , last time I voted for Republicans. Public Schools were great and now under rich and clueless Betsy DeVos the funds are heavily cuts and gone are those days under Sam Brownback educated in KS a total embarrassment except He once supported adult stem cell research .
19
Even the best school systems turn out people who didn't learn anything. Harvard and Yale are perfect examples since they also were home to all of the presidents since Bush I. If you want to start somewhere start there.
Even though the Brownback plan was a bust, I wouldn't bag on Kansas schools. In fact, even underfunded they still do better than most states, including yours in most measures. (The one where they didn't was Education Week, which only had them a fraction below Ohio.) So since you didn't want to stay and be part of the solution and instead picked up your toys and went somewhere else, I think you have zero to say here. The rest of us were brave enough to take a shot at it, and smart enough to know it didn't work, but turning a ship around takes a long time when it's run well aground and the captain still thinks it's sailing.
Even though the Brownback plan was a bust, I wouldn't bag on Kansas schools. In fact, even underfunded they still do better than most states, including yours in most measures. (The one where they didn't was Education Week, which only had them a fraction below Ohio.) So since you didn't want to stay and be part of the solution and instead picked up your toys and went somewhere else, I think you have zero to say here. The rest of us were brave enough to take a shot at it, and smart enough to know it didn't work, but turning a ship around takes a long time when it's run well aground and the captain still thinks it's sailing.
It's high time Kansas faced reality and followed the example of fiscally stable blue states like Illinois.
10
The cynicism oozing from this comment does not hide the reality that irresponsible fiscal management is a totally different kind of problem compared to the complete abdication of the public good represented by Brownback, Norquist, and their minions.
5
d.e.
I insist on balanced budgets...for gov't, for business, for personal accounts.
Illinois has been mismanaged for years...decades.
I find your comparison a bit exaggerated; but also a warning to other state gov'ts not to do what Kansas tried and Illinois has persisted in for decades. So, I agree with your principle, but, perhaps, not in equating Kansas and Illinois as in the same situation.
If I'm incorrect, please update me.
I find Kansas and Illinois somewhat different in their short-term and long-term fiscal behavior.
First Illinois:
Quite consciously, Illinois state govt underfunded (a polite term to describe paying less into the pension fund than required to maintain a stable fund with expected long-term expenditures), so the state pension system has obligations to meet that will not be met unless more money (increased payments) is allocated into the state pension fund. Illinois has also increased debt rather then increased taxes to pay for ongoing state expenditures. Illinois fiscally irresponsible behavior has been performed for decades not just 4 years (correct me if I'm inaccurate)..as in Kansas.
In Kansas, this "experiment" in fiscal Fantasyland of the state gov't spending more money than is received in taxes has been for a short-time. It will require the state govt to increases taxes to compensate for the deficits and get the state govt rebalanced, but it doesn't appear nearly as hopeless as it does in Illinois = basket case #1 of all our nation's 50 states.
I insist on balanced budgets...for gov't, for business, for personal accounts.
Illinois has been mismanaged for years...decades.
I find your comparison a bit exaggerated; but also a warning to other state gov'ts not to do what Kansas tried and Illinois has persisted in for decades. So, I agree with your principle, but, perhaps, not in equating Kansas and Illinois as in the same situation.
If I'm incorrect, please update me.
I find Kansas and Illinois somewhat different in their short-term and long-term fiscal behavior.
First Illinois:
Quite consciously, Illinois state govt underfunded (a polite term to describe paying less into the pension fund than required to maintain a stable fund with expected long-term expenditures), so the state pension system has obligations to meet that will not be met unless more money (increased payments) is allocated into the state pension fund. Illinois has also increased debt rather then increased taxes to pay for ongoing state expenditures. Illinois fiscally irresponsible behavior has been performed for decades not just 4 years (correct me if I'm inaccurate)..as in Kansas.
In Kansas, this "experiment" in fiscal Fantasyland of the state gov't spending more money than is received in taxes has been for a short-time. It will require the state govt to increases taxes to compensate for the deficits and get the state govt rebalanced, but it doesn't appear nearly as hopeless as it does in Illinois = basket case #1 of all our nation's 50 states.
Lobbyist views be damned. We need to demand similar federal tax increases for the entire country. END CITIZENS UNITED and buying elections.
1
Actually here in Michigan Governor Snyder did raise taxes, but it was on teacher and public servant pensions in order to eliminate the business tax. Same rationale was used i.e. that it would create an economic bonanza. Meanwhile, his legislature went about the task of cutting funding for schools, eliminating new teacher pensions, seniority, and general benefits. Oh, and yes de-emphasizing public works (Flint water crisis). We're still waiting on that economic miracle, but subsequently they had to raise the gas tax and vehicle registration rates because our roads are falling apart. But you'd better believe they will never go near any increase for the very wealthy.
In a recent attempt to prime the pump they are ramming through gun legislation which would allow virtually anyone to open carry without a permit, or weapons training! The legislative IQ in Michigan is somewhere in the range of a banana republic. Yet, out electorate keeps returning them to power. Sad times in the not so Great Lake State.
In a recent attempt to prime the pump they are ramming through gun legislation which would allow virtually anyone to open carry without a permit, or weapons training! The legislative IQ in Michigan is somewhere in the range of a banana republic. Yet, out electorate keeps returning them to power. Sad times in the not so Great Lake State.
26
Sounds like Kansas. And Kansas already passed legislation allowing open and concealed carry with no training required. In a few weeks, concealed carry will be allowed on the campuses of state colleges and universities. Lots of faculty have fled. It's a mess.
12
Electing a Democratic governor next year in Michigan will be key to preventing another round of partisan gerrymandering like that state saw after the 2010 Census. It's probably too much to ask that the legislature be flipped, but at least the governor would be in a position to veto egregious district maps. By my count the Democrats should have won some two or three more seats in the 2012 Congressional election, tying Michigan with Ohio for the second-most gerrymandered state. Pennsylvania leads this list of shame.
http://www.politicsbythenumbers.org/2012/11/27/was-gerrymandering-the-cu...
http://www.politicsbythenumbers.org/2012/11/27/was-gerrymandering-the-cu...
5
Don't Kansans need roads, electrification, phone service, broadband, medical care, etc.
We are a market based economy and there are just not enough paying customers per square mile in rural areas to warrant a private sector investment without government assistance.
Remember the cost of unsubsidized healthcare insurance in Alaska is THREE times higher than in Chicago which is not a cheap city to live in.
As an American do we just them them die off and let the free market reign?
We are a market based economy and there are just not enough paying customers per square mile in rural areas to warrant a private sector investment without government assistance.
Remember the cost of unsubsidized healthcare insurance in Alaska is THREE times higher than in Chicago which is not a cheap city to live in.
As an American do we just them them die off and let the free market reign?
10
Finally? Is there any tax the left doesn't like?
The report and the politicians and the people witnessed that the Republican way was a failure.
It has always been a failure of the Republican way for the economic aspect.
Hopefully Kansas will reverse the tide.
It has always been a failure of the Republican way for the economic aspect.
Hopefully Kansas will reverse the tide.
6
Sure. Sales and use taxes are generally regressive and should be replaced with progressive income taxes whenever possible. Too many states have flat-rate income taxes. States also rely on fees and outlandish criminal fines to cover their costs rather than impose additional taxes on their wealthiest citizens. There are many ways to tax; Republicans usually choose the most regressive methods to protect their clientele and satisfy rich donors.
4
It's not that the left "likes" taxes, it's that they understand the old saying, "you get what you pay for.". Pretty basic.
5
Supply side economics does not work anywhere in the world. Not in any country. Not in any state. Not in any time in history.
Well, it works for the richest, but not for the vast majority of citizens, and not for the society as a whole. Supply side economics cannot sustain a society, as the money eventually in the hands of the rich and corporations.
Supply side economics hollows out a society, just like it has in the USA the last 24 years when the GOP has held the US Congress 75% of the time.
Well, it works for the richest, but not for the vast majority of citizens, and not for the society as a whole. Supply side economics cannot sustain a society, as the money eventually in the hands of the rich and corporations.
Supply side economics hollows out a society, just like it has in the USA the last 24 years when the GOP has held the US Congress 75% of the time.
26
The U.S. positively needs to increase taxes on the wealthy, but not to solve what the writer calls a hideous opioid crisis. Meanwhile who are we losing to this crisis? Not rocket scientists or Einstein's. Most abusers are probably already on the dole, draining the resources of the U.S. Opioid abuse is not a disease, it is a moral failing, and Darwin's theory will take care of this problem in due time.
2
No, opioid addiction is primarily a disease and not a moral failing. And I am not an opioid addict or a bleeding heart.
4
Mr. Tangley,
From research I have read, opioid use is a disease. It may be in part, self-inflicted, but it is a disease. As with other diseases such as tobacco use, alcohol, and other drugs, some people appear susceptible to addiction...once they begin using opioids. Separating the "moral" issue from the medical and behavioral issues is not easy not likely to be answered quickly.
Will power is not just a moral issue, it is a behavioral characteristic that may be included in our DNA. I won't be surprised that scientific inquiry answers that question more conclusively in the near future. As are hair color; body shape, size, and composition; and ability to use one's brain capacity, will power may vary among different people.
Until we better understand "moral failing" and / or will power, I favor treating "sick" people with the resources we have available. I seriously doubt anyone chooses to be addicted to drugs. Perhaps, we, as a culture, need to address and to provide a different and more comprehensive help program, so those addicts DO NOT "morally fail" and to take additive drugs.
From research I have read, opioid use is a disease. It may be in part, self-inflicted, but it is a disease. As with other diseases such as tobacco use, alcohol, and other drugs, some people appear susceptible to addiction...once they begin using opioids. Separating the "moral" issue from the medical and behavioral issues is not easy not likely to be answered quickly.
Will power is not just a moral issue, it is a behavioral characteristic that may be included in our DNA. I won't be surprised that scientific inquiry answers that question more conclusively in the near future. As are hair color; body shape, size, and composition; and ability to use one's brain capacity, will power may vary among different people.
Until we better understand "moral failing" and / or will power, I favor treating "sick" people with the resources we have available. I seriously doubt anyone chooses to be addicted to drugs. Perhaps, we, as a culture, need to address and to provide a different and more comprehensive help program, so those addicts DO NOT "morally fail" and to take additive drugs.
2
Opioid use is a symptom of despair and lack of opportunities. It's the moral and ethical responsibility of every voter to try to mitigate those issues. Darwin's theory applies to those who can't comprehend the obvious.
What was that about train wrecks? Will other faux conservatives discover that realism is a traditional tenet of conservatism?
7
And yet Republicans in Washington and the authors of this debacle Laffer, Moore, Kudlow and co are still claiming that tax cuts are the magic route to growth. As recently as a couple of weeks ago the latter three were saying we don't need to worry about the deficit. The fact is the Republican party has ceased to be the party of good management and fiscal responsibility.
18
I remember when it was the Democrats who were accused of being indifferent to the deficit - in the Kennedy -Johnson era.
1
A step in the right direction. Someday perhaps the concept of trickle down and prosperity by making the rich richer - will be recognized for what it is - a delusional disorder.
23
Thank you for shining a light on Kansas. YES! It is huge news, especially with the D.C. tax cut plan emerging now. It seems very similar to Kansas's.
16
If Brownback came to office in 20111, then he must have been re elected once. It took the people of Kansas six years to wake up and realize they had made a huge error? Even the Supreme Court was required before the citizens realized their children were not being properly educated. I would bet money theses citizens vote a no tax republican to succeed Brownback.
17
It was a very tight election -- the Democrat came very close -- lost by few thousand votes. I know no one who voted for Brownback and I know plenty of Republicans who declared loudly that they had never voted for a Democratic candidate in their lives but voted for Paul Davis in the 2014 election -- most of them said it was because of the cuts to education. When the Koch Brothers, whose business is based in Wichita, realized that the Democrat might actually win, they and Americans for Prosperity and others started a huge spending campaign and made the rhetoric of the election all about Obama. "Our state budget is a shambles because of President Obama's policies in D.C." It was unbelievable. Brownback constantly stated that Obama was the problem, not Brownback's policies.
Well...by fall of 2015, Brownback had a lower approval rating in the state of Kansas than Obama. I can't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like Obama 38% approval, Brownback 18% approval. The people who reelected Brownback turned on him too late.
Even if Davis had been elected in 2014, we knew that it would take at least a decade for the state to recover. Now? Maybe 20 years. It has been absolutely horrible to live through. But people in Manhattan, KS set off fireworks late at night in celebration last week when the veto was overturned. There is hope for the first time in a long time, but it is going to be a very long road to recovery.
Well...by fall of 2015, Brownback had a lower approval rating in the state of Kansas than Obama. I can't remember the exact numbers, but it was something like Obama 38% approval, Brownback 18% approval. The people who reelected Brownback turned on him too late.
Even if Davis had been elected in 2014, we knew that it would take at least a decade for the state to recover. Now? Maybe 20 years. It has been absolutely horrible to live through. But people in Manhattan, KS set off fireworks late at night in celebration last week when the veto was overturned. There is hope for the first time in a long time, but it is going to be a very long road to recovery.
15
I don't disagree with what you say here, and it was the conservative base in Olathe/Johnson County that ill advised put Brownback back in. And they aren't gone yet. These issues are being reversed by small margins. But since you're from Manhattan, KS, lets acknowledge one thing. Manhattan really has nothing to complain about. Brownback, being a K-Stater, virtually cannibalized a lot of Topeka and moved it to Manhattan sewing more ruin and strife in his path that your city profited from. Jerry Moran abandoned Hays and moved to Manhattan and then worked to move as much there as possible including NBACC. There are many other examples. I don't begrudge any of those only because NBACC needed to be there, but when it comes to Manhattan what you really are talking about is you could've gotten even more than you did if Kansas stayed on the former plan. Look out, though, having the government fund your well being is shaky ground.
1
So the people of Kansas blamed Obamafor their plight? Trump won Kansas. I stand by my original bet
1
It's really about the struggle of moderate Republicans to take back their party from a radical right wing. When we lived in a rural area we voted regularly for a Republican congressperson because of his strong record on conservation, agriculture, and the environment. After three or four successful terms in office, the local Tea Party put up a challenger, a rich guy with absolutely no government experience of any kind -- yet who won the nomination handily because of gerrymandering. So we lost a strong representative in favor of a weak one, who served one term and was soundly defeated the next time around.
It's like a brain drain of political savvy... only Grover Norquist is happy with the outcome.
It's like a brain drain of political savvy... only Grover Norquist is happy with the outcome.
19
As a transplanted Kansan (originally from Baltimore), all I can say is: About time the legislature got a backbone.
The Koch's shadow is long over the statehouse, and their mouthpiece, Brownback, thankfully, cannot run again. There are still questions about how he won the last election, but kobach has blocked any requests for the ballots. So, although there is the victory in putting the state back on solid financial footing, there is still a long way to go. The voters need to oust the obstructionist koch supporters (kobach, et.al.) before Kansas can become, once again, a state where sensible republicans and democrats can live and thrive.
The Koch's shadow is long over the statehouse, and their mouthpiece, Brownback, thankfully, cannot run again. There are still questions about how he won the last election, but kobach has blocked any requests for the ballots. So, although there is the victory in putting the state back on solid financial footing, there is still a long way to go. The voters need to oust the obstructionist koch supporters (kobach, et.al.) before Kansas can become, once again, a state where sensible republicans and democrats can live and thrive.
40
But there is mention of Kobach the voter cross checker and voter suppression guy might be tapped by Trump to head to Washington to spread vitriol in Washington DC.
2
I'll bet you miss the way things are done in Baltimore.
I can't really comprehend the mentality of people who believe that their state, country, municipality, etc. will become an attractive place to live because the taxes are low or non-existent. Certainly I don't wish to live in a place where taxes are at confiscatory levels, but even the states known for having higher rates of tax (Massachusetts, New York, Hawaii, California, etc.) do not tax their residents at confiscatory levels.
Is this why anti-tax fanatics think America was established in the 18th century, i.e. to become a no-tax or low-tax haven for people who wanted to make a lot of money? Seriously, America was founded to become the world's largest jerk magnet? Is that why so many Italians, Poles, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, and others began making their way to the shores of the USA in the 19th century, followed by equally big waves of Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Mexicans, and others in the 20th century? There are indeed some people who will deliberately move to Kansas or Texas because the state taxes are low, but my hunch is that those people are very small in number. More people are drawn to places where the intellectual and cultural climates are stimulating, even if the taxes are a bit higher. Not everybody is a crass, anti-tax monomaniac like the lobbyist Grover Norquist (mentioned in this article).
This anti-tax theory about why America was founded and what it needs to do to prosper is nonsense and ought to be dropped.
Is this why anti-tax fanatics think America was established in the 18th century, i.e. to become a no-tax or low-tax haven for people who wanted to make a lot of money? Seriously, America was founded to become the world's largest jerk magnet? Is that why so many Italians, Poles, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, and others began making their way to the shores of the USA in the 19th century, followed by equally big waves of Indians, Koreans, Vietnamese, Mexicans, and others in the 20th century? There are indeed some people who will deliberately move to Kansas or Texas because the state taxes are low, but my hunch is that those people are very small in number. More people are drawn to places where the intellectual and cultural climates are stimulating, even if the taxes are a bit higher. Not everybody is a crass, anti-tax monomaniac like the lobbyist Grover Norquist (mentioned in this article).
This anti-tax theory about why America was founded and what it needs to do to prosper is nonsense and ought to be dropped.
40
I have a sister in law and her husband whose criteria for moving to a state is
1. low or no taxes;
2. no gun control;
3. the price of a buying a house must be very low;
4. the state must be a red state.
That is it. That is all they care about.
They voted for Trump. At this point, the side effects of that choice for president has not hit them yet so they still view Trump favorably. I wonder what will happen to their opinions when Trump's mismanagement of the US starts to effect them health-wise and financially.
1. low or no taxes;
2. no gun control;
3. the price of a buying a house must be very low;
4. the state must be a red state.
That is it. That is all they care about.
They voted for Trump. At this point, the side effects of that choice for president has not hit them yet so they still view Trump favorably. I wonder what will happen to their opinions when Trump's mismanagement of the US starts to effect them health-wise and financially.
6
In an area of very low housing prices, there are no good paying jobs available.
2
There are places, like California, where even columnists on the left (George Skelton) admit that the state income tax is too dependent on the few and the rich.
People are in fact moving from California to Texas and even Kansas, in droves. But it's not so much about taxes as it is about rents and the affordability of housing. This is a case where Kansas is still doing something right.
People are in fact moving from California to Texas and even Kansas, in droves. But it's not so much about taxes as it is about rents and the affordability of housing. This is a case where Kansas is still doing something right.
Failure to raise gas taxes in an era of low gas prices has been a squandered opportunity.
39
Why do no-tax Republicans imagine you can have services without taxes? They don't. Because it's working class people (i.e. the whole rest of America) that depend on those services being provided by public funding. The well-off GOPers can pay for many of those services privately. Lousy public school? No problem-- pay for private school. Streets in poor condition? Live in a gated community. Medicaid cuts mean your mother can't afford nursing home care? Just pay for private nurses so mom can be home. The message continues to be that if you have to depend on the government to provide vital services and infrastructure, you've obviously lead a disapated life and don't deserve those services anyway.
96
@Wynterstail
WNY
So the conundrum is why do so many of those working class people (who don't send their children to private schools etc.) vote Republican?
WNY
So the conundrum is why do so many of those working class people (who don't send their children to private schools etc.) vote Republican?
23
And support charters and vouchers so the poor can have access to a decent private education too.
1
@John: propaganda. Fox News, specifically.
1
The Anglo countries - US, Britain, Canada, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand have the lowest Tax revenues to GDP among the advanced countries. The US is at the bottom of the pack - about 25% of GDP. Germany and the Nordic countries are almost at 50%.
By almost every competitiveness measure the US is declining and one of the reasons is the lack of public investments.
By almost every competitiveness measure the US is declining and one of the reasons is the lack of public investments.
31
Almost all these Angle countries have 1 A sales Tax on both products and services. 2 Progressive Income taxes - An effective top end income tax rate of just under 50% (presuming the rich have ways of cutting that) for the highest paid 3 Taxes on other income (savings, pensions, cars). For that these and other fully developed countries get almost free education (inc 3rd level), state services and social assistance to those at the lowest income level, subsidised health care. Forget cutting US Federal income tax changes- just kill off tax loopholes and ways in which the rich can cut their effective taxes income. Yes Sales taxes are punitive to the poor but you can aim them at what rich folk buy more off - boats, houses, land, tax lawyers, fancy cars.
Consider all those kids in Kansas that will now never catch up and undermine the states future wealth. Kids in private schools won't save the day. Perhaps Americans don't believe in quality public education as there are few examples?
Consider all those kids in Kansas that will now never catch up and undermine the states future wealth. Kids in private schools won't save the day. Perhaps Americans don't believe in quality public education as there are few examples?
2
So many Americans believe the hogwash that they are overtaxed. The OECD average for taxes to GDP is around 35 percent, ten points higher than the US. The OECD figure includes taxes at all levels of government, too, including state and local taxes. We desperately need to raise taxes to invest in public infrastructure, but the Republicans are hell-bent on letting everything fall to pieces. When that happens their buddies will come in and start building toll roads after receiving lucrative public incentives.
2
I rejoiced when hearing of the veto override. I crossed my fingers not long ago hoping Brownback would lose the last election.
Now is an excellent time to raise the gasoline tax. Even by 10 cents a gallon. In fact speculation in the oil market can drive up the price of gasoline by 10 cents a gallon within a week.
With gasoline hovering around $2/gal within a month or two you would know the difference.
Half way through every year the governments fund for highways is depleted. But congress will not raise the tax. So, money is taken from other worth while projects to fund the highway fund. All in the name of a Republican pledge to not raise taxes.
Now is an excellent time to raise the gasoline tax. Even by 10 cents a gallon. In fact speculation in the oil market can drive up the price of gasoline by 10 cents a gallon within a week.
With gasoline hovering around $2/gal within a month or two you would know the difference.
Half way through every year the governments fund for highways is depleted. But congress will not raise the tax. So, money is taken from other worth while projects to fund the highway fund. All in the name of a Republican pledge to not raise taxes.
29
Oh -- if only our legislators in Oklahoma could/would read Kansas newspapers.
We are in the same boat as Kansas, although the figures aren't quite as high.
We are losing teachers because our schools have no money. We are losing law protection because our highway patrol only has part-time money to patrol our highways. And our highways are falling apart because the only ones who can be repaired are the toll roads, which pay for themselves. Duh!
And I'm positive that just about all the other states with a republican controlled government are in the same situation.
I wish all legislators and congress persons were obligated, their first month in office, to visit Sweden -- just to learn how proper taxation can not only make people easier to get along with, and happier, but provide all those things which people need in this modern world. I wish, but it will probably never happen.
We are in the same boat as Kansas, although the figures aren't quite as high.
We are losing teachers because our schools have no money. We are losing law protection because our highway patrol only has part-time money to patrol our highways. And our highways are falling apart because the only ones who can be repaired are the toll roads, which pay for themselves. Duh!
And I'm positive that just about all the other states with a republican controlled government are in the same situation.
I wish all legislators and congress persons were obligated, their first month in office, to visit Sweden -- just to learn how proper taxation can not only make people easier to get along with, and happier, but provide all those things which people need in this modern world. I wish, but it will probably never happen.
102
I have always been of the opinion (ever since I learned how the net worth of politicians jumps once they achieve office almost 60 years ago), that politicians must pay a user fee once elected, the fee being based mostly on the altitude of the office.
Iowa, or Kanowa as I like to call it now, is headed down a similar dark alley. In Kanowa we give away as much as we cut. Since our Koch employee/Governor has just left for China and his joined at the hip replacement has already noticed a drop in revenue so the beatings will continue until the moral improves. Our new governor`s plan is once the revenue gets taken care of through budget cuts tax reform is next on the agenda. Tax reform, is that Republicnesse for tax cut for the rich?
Kansas is a microcosm of a wider macro challenge facing the American economy i.e., a strong imbalance between spending and savings.
The American economy is moved by debt. Politicians are elected by promising not to raise taxes or, worst, to cut them; nonetheless, federal debt continues to rise year after year; it has reached 100% of GDP.
At state and municipal levels there are limits for public debt. The only way out is to curtail basic public services or raise taxes as Kansas' legislators decided to do. In public finances, there is not much room to play around with numbers.
The American economy is moved by debt. Politicians are elected by promising not to raise taxes or, worst, to cut them; nonetheless, federal debt continues to rise year after year; it has reached 100% of GDP.
At state and municipal levels there are limits for public debt. The only way out is to curtail basic public services or raise taxes as Kansas' legislators decided to do. In public finances, there is not much room to play around with numbers.
9
Ann Coulter is spot on with the tax cuts being promoted by Trump.
"I don’t know why we’re talking about tax cuts. He didn’t campaign on tax cuts. That’s every other Republican."
Trump is currying favor with the establishment Republican wing with a tax cut plan, but it's not a high priority for his most important base of voters in swing states.
Though I'm a conservative, I don't actually think that individual federal income taxes can/should be lower. In fact, I can live with higher taxes on the top 10% of earners. An increased gasoline tax to fund infrastructure would also be an appropriate move.
(And, please, let's move past dynamic scoring of tax impacts. It really feels like funny money at this point.)
I've tired of carrying water for the Bushes and Romney's of the Republican world.
"I don’t know why we’re talking about tax cuts. He didn’t campaign on tax cuts. That’s every other Republican."
Trump is currying favor with the establishment Republican wing with a tax cut plan, but it's not a high priority for his most important base of voters in swing states.
Though I'm a conservative, I don't actually think that individual federal income taxes can/should be lower. In fact, I can live with higher taxes on the top 10% of earners. An increased gasoline tax to fund infrastructure would also be an appropriate move.
(And, please, let's move past dynamic scoring of tax impacts. It really feels like funny money at this point.)
I've tired of carrying water for the Bushes and Romney's of the Republican world.
31
Why can't we accept that governance is a balancing act? That tax levels depend on need, on the state of the state, on how high or low taxes are already, or on how much waste and corruption is siphoning off revenue.
Taxes are not good or evil, they are just a cost of living like rent and food. Policy should be based on reality, not ideology. Certainly there will be disputes about what is necessary, what is not, but that is the entire reason we have government.
Grover Norquist is a tick on our hide. He latches on, is difficult to remove, and spreads ideas that make the nation weaker and sicker.
Taxes are necessary. Challenging our spending is necessary. Changing our priorities is necessary. Understanding the economic reality of the post-industrial nation, and how to attack that reality is necessary. Intelligence and compromise is necessary.
But a no-tax pledge. That is just an easy out; a way to avoid having to actually think and take responsibility for governance. Fire the lot of them,
Taxes are not good or evil, they are just a cost of living like rent and food. Policy should be based on reality, not ideology. Certainly there will be disputes about what is necessary, what is not, but that is the entire reason we have government.
Grover Norquist is a tick on our hide. He latches on, is difficult to remove, and spreads ideas that make the nation weaker and sicker.
Taxes are necessary. Challenging our spending is necessary. Changing our priorities is necessary. Understanding the economic reality of the post-industrial nation, and how to attack that reality is necessary. Intelligence and compromise is necessary.
But a no-tax pledge. That is just an easy out; a way to avoid having to actually think and take responsibility for governance. Fire the lot of them,
37
People are either stridently for, or stridently against raising taxes. What I seldom if ever see is a detailed analysis of what the tax money is used for or how efficiently it is used. My guess is that if our tax money were all spent on, say, weapons programs--nothing is more Keynesian than a bomb that self destructs followed by the need to buy another one--you would get a swift reversal of viewpoint between liberals and conservatives.
6
Yet, Kansas remains solidly Republican, even winning a special election for a House seat, despite all the turmoil created by Republicans.
That's the matter with Kansas.
That's the matter with Kansas.
32
Or is that the matter with the national Democratic party? Kansans came up with a 20-point swing in April's special election. Imagine what could have happened if the national Dems had invested like the national GOP did.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/13/progressive-democr...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/13/progressive-democr...
A strong middle class is a sign of a fair and working tax /economic policy. Paying taxes is patriotic as it is respect for our country and our institutions. it doesn't make you smart to avoid taxes, just selfish and greedy.
Don't count the Koch brothers out yet. They are very old and the last tax break they really really want is the elimination of inheritance taxes which will make the gains earned on the backs of the middle class permanent.
Don't count the Koch brothers out yet. They are very old and the last tax break they really really want is the elimination of inheritance taxes which will make the gains earned on the backs of the middle class permanent.
29
Supply side was always a big con with the sole purpose of benefitting the rich. Kansas and other similar red states have now proved it.
Let's not hear about it anymore. If any politician brings it up, tell the puppet for the rich to shut the h--- up.
Let's not hear about it anymore. If any politician brings it up, tell the puppet for the rich to shut the h--- up.
32
Who elected Grover Norquist?
The rabid anti-tax religion is the root cause of much of our dysfunction. The affluent protect themselves, build walls around themselves and ignore the rest.
This is time for Democracy to re-assert itself. We the People. We reject a country that is only for the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation.
The rabid anti-tax religion is the root cause of much of our dysfunction. The affluent protect themselves, build walls around themselves and ignore the rest.
This is time for Democracy to re-assert itself. We the People. We reject a country that is only for the corporation, by the corporation, and for the corporation.
48
Amen, corporations are not people and shouldn't have the same rights as people.
Reality came home to roost, sort of. The reality is that there is no way to spin not having any money. Kansas was broke and the bills kept coming in. When the bank account goes negative, sane Republicans will take notice after three or four years.
The insane ones won't. Brownback still claims his plan was working. Yeah right. He maintained that the economic shortfall can be blamed on low agricultural prices and the general economy. Tell that to Iowa.
The ultra conservatives of Kansas continue to maintain that the reason the tax cuts failed is because spending was too high. Too high?
These insane Republicans conveniently overlook that the state has responsibilities and duties to perform. Those cost money. Certainly, reducing spending further would balance the budget. But that's like saying I won't pay my gas bill so can pay my light bill. That's what Kansas tried to do and broke the place in the process.
Then to add insult to injury, they call this a tax increase which will damage the economy. It is not. It is a tax restoration. The economy in Kansas was doing just fine before the cuts. Great schools and roads. Great communities. The people want Kansas to be great again. So they restored their taxes. Take note Washington GOP or you and Trump will do to the country what the extremists did to Kansas.
The insane ones won't. Brownback still claims his plan was working. Yeah right. He maintained that the economic shortfall can be blamed on low agricultural prices and the general economy. Tell that to Iowa.
The ultra conservatives of Kansas continue to maintain that the reason the tax cuts failed is because spending was too high. Too high?
These insane Republicans conveniently overlook that the state has responsibilities and duties to perform. Those cost money. Certainly, reducing spending further would balance the budget. But that's like saying I won't pay my gas bill so can pay my light bill. That's what Kansas tried to do and broke the place in the process.
Then to add insult to injury, they call this a tax increase which will damage the economy. It is not. It is a tax restoration. The economy in Kansas was doing just fine before the cuts. Great schools and roads. Great communities. The people want Kansas to be great again. So they restored their taxes. Take note Washington GOP or you and Trump will do to the country what the extremists did to Kansas.
41
Long before he became President, Ronald Reagan was shown a simple diagram on a napkin by an economist at the University of Chicago named Arthur Laffer. Laffer drew a graph with one axis being income tax rates from 0-100%. The other axis was government revenue from income tax.
Clearly at a tax rate of 0%, revenue is zero. At 100%, there's no point in working to generate taxable income so revenue is also zero.
As the rate rise becomes non-zero, revenue will increase, but at some point revenue will bend back and decrease as the tax rate approaches 100%.
But Laffer drew the curve the way economists always do when they don't actually have an equation for the curve, they ASSUME it's a smooth curve. Any tax rate above the bend, the "turning point" WILL reduce revenue. But the smooth curve ASSUMED that turning point was at 50% or less. The only empirical data point was JFK's lowering the tax rate, then over 90%, which DID increase revenue.
But Reagan and the GOP didn't care--they had the cover for tax cuts for the wealthy. And they made them, under Reagan, and again under GW Bush. And what happened? Revenue fell and the deficits EXPLODED! Because we don't know where that turning point, just that it's MUCH higher than Republicans will accept. And we have Grover Nyquist to thank for this nonsense.
Brownback and Kansas believed the myth and reality has bit them on the bottom, painfully and drawn blood. Brownback STILL doesn't believe it, but the legislature now does!
Clearly at a tax rate of 0%, revenue is zero. At 100%, there's no point in working to generate taxable income so revenue is also zero.
As the rate rise becomes non-zero, revenue will increase, but at some point revenue will bend back and decrease as the tax rate approaches 100%.
But Laffer drew the curve the way economists always do when they don't actually have an equation for the curve, they ASSUME it's a smooth curve. Any tax rate above the bend, the "turning point" WILL reduce revenue. But the smooth curve ASSUMED that turning point was at 50% or less. The only empirical data point was JFK's lowering the tax rate, then over 90%, which DID increase revenue.
But Reagan and the GOP didn't care--they had the cover for tax cuts for the wealthy. And they made them, under Reagan, and again under GW Bush. And what happened? Revenue fell and the deficits EXPLODED! Because we don't know where that turning point, just that it's MUCH higher than Republicans will accept. And we have Grover Nyquist to thank for this nonsense.
Brownback and Kansas believed the myth and reality has bit them on the bottom, painfully and drawn blood. Brownback STILL doesn't believe it, but the legislature now does!
25
The experience of Kansas ought to be a lesson for the nation but with the likes of Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Mike Pence and other GOP leaders wanting to do what Kansas did to the entire country, we're far from learning the lessons of extreme austerity and recognition of the social contract.
31
Now we, who are the ends of the generation who in our youth experienced the govenmental activities to promote the fraud of the Vietnam war, are seeing one of the final negative consequences of that war: the total delegitimization of government. Those who early on learned not to trust the Federal government do not want to pay taxes no matter who that hurts (even if it is themselves). When will we become "We the people" once again?
14
Other states have tried more modest but similar approaches, with more modest but similar lack of results. Governor Ricketts in Nebraska is proposing a similar approach. Let's hope sanity prevails.
19
North Carolina is headed to Kansas this very minute...
2
Tomasky leaves out that the there was a strong push on radio advertising here in Kansas to blame the budget crisis on poor spending habits by government agencies and on crop prices, which is not entirely false. The reality is that the crisis in K-12 education in the state was mostly brought on by the tax cut of Brownback and his extreme allies, but the crisis was definitely accelerated by low farm prices and overspending by districts. We have some districts playing "keeping up with the Jones" on infrastructure spending.
We have seen a fascinating split in the Republican party here over the issue of school funding, which has challenged the issue of abortion. As on the national scene, abortion is a key issue. Many rural Kansas do not want to vote for politicians who will hurt their districts, but they cannot get past the abortion issue. They do not realize that abortions will unfortunately occur whether they try to control human decisions or not through legislation. Thus, it remains a political issue. This is the key to what has been wrong with the state, why the state voted for Brownback, and even Trump. I know plenty of rural Kansas who hated Trump, but still voted for him due to the abortion issue. Democrats clearly need to repackage their message on this issue.
Education has become the point at which Kansans saw a need to break with the extreme Right. It has been the issue that has cracked the abortion coalition. As a teacher in Kansas, I am thankful.
We have seen a fascinating split in the Republican party here over the issue of school funding, which has challenged the issue of abortion. As on the national scene, abortion is a key issue. Many rural Kansas do not want to vote for politicians who will hurt their districts, but they cannot get past the abortion issue. They do not realize that abortions will unfortunately occur whether they try to control human decisions or not through legislation. Thus, it remains a political issue. This is the key to what has been wrong with the state, why the state voted for Brownback, and even Trump. I know plenty of rural Kansas who hated Trump, but still voted for him due to the abortion issue. Democrats clearly need to repackage their message on this issue.
Education has become the point at which Kansans saw a need to break with the extreme Right. It has been the issue that has cracked the abortion coalition. As a teacher in Kansas, I am thankful.
42
Of course Kansas is an extreme example that is instructive of almost nothing except poor fiscal management. I mean really, government needs revenue. But you can cherry-pick your data and generate support for opposite conclusions - the GDP growth of highly-taxed upstate NY, for example, is abysmally low and ranks with the worst performers in the nation, despite large government and generous subsidies. Also, contrast perennial high performing states like FL and TX, among others, with perennial low performers (and population losers) like IL and NY. Ultimately there are too many variables to conclude that big government is consistently good while small government is consistently bad. But just like too little government is problematic, too much government does exist and can also be a drag on economic growth.
5
You're responding to an argument the author didn't make. This article argues that Kansas is evidence that supply side style tax cuts do not work the way their advocates say they do. Nobody argued that high taxes spur growth, and that argument isn't fairly implied by this article. Discussions would be more informative and civil if we'd all keep our eyes on the ball.
13
Big government in not only a drag on the economy but is detrimental to the personal freedom of the citizens.
Big government without cronyism corruption etc. would be heaven...and that's not going to happen..But you do not throw out the baby because it is ill or tear down a house because the heating doesn't"t work. You repair...not DESTROY which is the republicans stated objective.
The United States has always been strongest because we were UNITED..not just a loosely held collection of states, all doing their own thing..which is what the republicans want...sad.
The United States has always been strongest because we were UNITED..not just a loosely held collection of states, all doing their own thing..which is what the republicans want...sad.
2
Hopefully, KS will elect Chris Kobach and the state will be just fine. In fact, it will thrive. Kobach is an immigration hawk, in that he will actually enforce immigration laws and prosecute employers who hire illegals.
3
It's Kris Kobach. An opportunist extraordinarily suited to the state. A smiling, smarter Brownback. Now running for Governor. JUST what we need. NOT.
4
Cjmesq0-"Kobach is an immigration hawk, in that he will actually enforce immigration laws and prosecute employers who hire illegals."
Kansas has an illegal immigrant population of 2.5%!!!! I highly doubt that they are responsible for this plight of this degradation of the state! Actually the states that have the highest percentage of illegals tend to have the best economies. http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/
But don't let the facts get in the way of the bigotry and a good rant!
Kansas has an illegal immigrant population of 2.5%!!!! I highly doubt that they are responsible for this plight of this degradation of the state! Actually the states that have the highest percentage of illegals tend to have the best economies. http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/
But don't let the facts get in the way of the bigotry and a good rant!
1
You have heard, maybe, of a "Jeptha's vow." Jeptha (in the Old Testament) promised the Lord that, should he return home victorious from battle, he would sacrifice the first thing that met him.
What were you THINKING of, Mr. Jeptha?
Who came out to meet him? His daughter. Oh that vow! That incredible vow! The daughter was duly sacrificed. There are a number of unpleasant stories in the Old Testament. This is one.
One of my all-time favorite quotes was uttered (I believe) by George Bush, Sr. Savor every word:
"Who the HELL--is Grover Norquist?"
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you.
Years ago, I had a brief debate with a deep-dyed conservative woman. She bemoaned the crushing taxes under which (in her view) we labored. She was taken aback--reduced to silence--when I assured her: we pay lighter taxes than any first world nation.
Much lighter, for instance, than our Canadian friends to the north. "But you Americans," said a young Canadian I know (a minister, by the way)--"you would never accept the taxes we pay in Canada."
Which reminds me of Canadian health care. Universal health care. Another Canadian (my friend's father-in-law) took me aside. He too--a deep-dyed conservative. But he told me, "Never believe a word you hear about our health plan. It works like a dream."
I say we make another Jeptha's vow. How about we all sacrifice . . . .
. . . Mr. Grover Norquist? Or the Koch brothers?
Sounds good to me.
What were you THINKING of, Mr. Jeptha?
Who came out to meet him? His daughter. Oh that vow! That incredible vow! The daughter was duly sacrificed. There are a number of unpleasant stories in the Old Testament. This is one.
One of my all-time favorite quotes was uttered (I believe) by George Bush, Sr. Savor every word:
"Who the HELL--is Grover Norquist?"
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you.
Years ago, I had a brief debate with a deep-dyed conservative woman. She bemoaned the crushing taxes under which (in her view) we labored. She was taken aback--reduced to silence--when I assured her: we pay lighter taxes than any first world nation.
Much lighter, for instance, than our Canadian friends to the north. "But you Americans," said a young Canadian I know (a minister, by the way)--"you would never accept the taxes we pay in Canada."
Which reminds me of Canadian health care. Universal health care. Another Canadian (my friend's father-in-law) took me aside. He too--a deep-dyed conservative. But he told me, "Never believe a word you hear about our health plan. It works like a dream."
I say we make another Jeptha's vow. How about we all sacrifice . . . .
. . . Mr. Grover Norquist? Or the Koch brothers?
Sounds good to me.
45
If the Canadian health system was so great we would have larger than necessary health care centers in Buffalo, Cleveland and other areas near the Canadian border that cater to the Canadians that don't want to queue up for a procedure in their country. If you have money and don't want to wait months and months for a pacemaker or other life saving surgery, you cross the border to the U.S.
I work with Canadians and to a man, they and their families are very happy with their universal health care. One day, before the ACA was implemented, we compared tax rates, but did not include sales or property taxes (MT does not have a sales tax). My Canadian colleagues paid 3% more in federal and provincial taxes, and for that they get universal health care.
4
"So here's hoping that Kansas represents a breakthrough moment".
Don't hold your breath; these folks voted for Mr. Trump along with most of their compatriots in the Bible/Rust/Altright Belt. I'm guessing in 2018, their voting patterns will be much the same as the "fake news" that scared the pants off of them by demonizing that awful woman running for president, Ms. Clinton, will be cranked up into high gear with even more "conspiracy theories", more "god loves Trump" mumbo-jumbo and more "they's takin' your guns away" rhetoric.
Any money going into "education" in Kansas because they (And the rest of those states) certainly need a little...okay, a lot? For these people, obviously, are an impressionable group with their immediate concerns overriding any "national" concerns (You know, Obama and the "big gu'ment" bunch); their governor is a Republican, the government is Republican and I can only assume they overrode his veto because of all those self serving farmers screaming at them with pitchforks and torches to do SOMETHING to raise revenue to run their state.
On the plus side, at least a distant relative of Bill Quantrill, the famous bush-whacker leader who helped bring us "Bloody Kansas" prior to the ACW, didn't show up on horseback to help "resolve" any issues. In a Republican run state, that alone is considered quite progressive; not to settle the issue with violence.
Don't hold your breath; these folks voted for Mr. Trump along with most of their compatriots in the Bible/Rust/Altright Belt. I'm guessing in 2018, their voting patterns will be much the same as the "fake news" that scared the pants off of them by demonizing that awful woman running for president, Ms. Clinton, will be cranked up into high gear with even more "conspiracy theories", more "god loves Trump" mumbo-jumbo and more "they's takin' your guns away" rhetoric.
Any money going into "education" in Kansas because they (And the rest of those states) certainly need a little...okay, a lot? For these people, obviously, are an impressionable group with their immediate concerns overriding any "national" concerns (You know, Obama and the "big gu'ment" bunch); their governor is a Republican, the government is Republican and I can only assume they overrode his veto because of all those self serving farmers screaming at them with pitchforks and torches to do SOMETHING to raise revenue to run their state.
On the plus side, at least a distant relative of Bill Quantrill, the famous bush-whacker leader who helped bring us "Bloody Kansas" prior to the ACW, didn't show up on horseback to help "resolve" any issues. In a Republican run state, that alone is considered quite progressive; not to settle the issue with violence.
10
Oh my, my. I love your optimism, but your conclusions and hope are misplaced. Let me count the ways. (1) The Kansas Republicans were forced from going farther down the rabbit hole by the state Supreme Court, which ruled that the governor’s and legislature’s actions were causing illegal harm. It was not due to any revelation by any GOP personage. Keep an eye on them, and you’ll see they haven’t given up anything.
(2) Although it is true that Brownback and crew did partake in a conscious program of utter supply-side economics, it is utterly not true that they or any other Republicans saw or will see this as an “experiment” from which lessons could be learned. The GOP believes supply-side economics as a matter of faith that is religious in nature. You note the required no-tax pledge that’s been going on for three decades. This belief will not be shaken one iota by Kansas data or any data. Before Brownback and crew, there was 30 years of federal economic data proving that supply side economics was a complete fiction. Cut taxes for the rich. Government is bad. Ignore any facts to the contrary. Sign the pledge. That’s not going to change, in Kansas or anywhere else.
(3) You finish with “something finally isn’t the matter with Kansas.” But you also note that Kansas is the “home state of the conservative Koch brothers.” Nuff said. Sadly, they don’t stay in Kansas. Their tentacles reach all over the entire world.
(2) Although it is true that Brownback and crew did partake in a conscious program of utter supply-side economics, it is utterly not true that they or any other Republicans saw or will see this as an “experiment” from which lessons could be learned. The GOP believes supply-side economics as a matter of faith that is religious in nature. You note the required no-tax pledge that’s been going on for three decades. This belief will not be shaken one iota by Kansas data or any data. Before Brownback and crew, there was 30 years of federal economic data proving that supply side economics was a complete fiction. Cut taxes for the rich. Government is bad. Ignore any facts to the contrary. Sign the pledge. That’s not going to change, in Kansas or anywhere else.
(3) You finish with “something finally isn’t the matter with Kansas.” But you also note that Kansas is the “home state of the conservative Koch brothers.” Nuff said. Sadly, they don’t stay in Kansas. Their tentacles reach all over the entire world.
418
This is spot on.
1
John,
Then there is California, the Anti-Kansas, far bigger, far richer. The 9th largest economy in the world. Full liberal control of the government. A "workers paradise" if ever there should be one?
Let's look at the record. Among the highest taxes in the nation while running a deficit. Failing expensive public schools, rising crime because of Liberal Catch and Release prison experiments and lots of potholes. The potholes are a result of highway maintenance funds being stolen for social experiments in transport.
The workers pay for it in high taxes insurance and maintenance on their cars. But wait there's more the government is going it alone with a mandatory CalCare health program that will cost hundreds of billions more in taxes.
Taxes not the earthquakes will cause California to sink into the sea.
Then there is California, the Anti-Kansas, far bigger, far richer. The 9th largest economy in the world. Full liberal control of the government. A "workers paradise" if ever there should be one?
Let's look at the record. Among the highest taxes in the nation while running a deficit. Failing expensive public schools, rising crime because of Liberal Catch and Release prison experiments and lots of potholes. The potholes are a result of highway maintenance funds being stolen for social experiments in transport.
The workers pay for it in high taxes insurance and maintenance on their cars. But wait there's more the government is going it alone with a mandatory CalCare health program that will cost hundreds of billions more in taxes.
Taxes not the earthquakes will cause California to sink into the sea.
Just went there. I didn't see potholes. Went on Zillow - lots of great schools. Looked at real estate - its surging. Those are not signs of failure. Maybe you have been out in the extreme sun too long to notice.
1
While the news from Kansas was heartening (and, to a non-Republican) highly satisfying, I wouldn't hold my breath in the expectation that the rest of the GOP will "see the light" any time soon. That would mean that they would have to acknowledge something known as "the common good," a phrase that appears nowhere in the Republican lexicon. On a whole range of issues--taxes, spending, education, etc.--the GOP has amply demonstrated itscomplete lack of concern for ordinary Americans. How else to explain its embrace of Trump and his cruel agenda and multiple conflicts of interest? Republicans are much more interested in serving the interests of their wealthy patrons. Short of a complete economic or environmental collapse, it's hard to imagine them abandoning the wealthy donor class.
11
Pendulums swing to BOTH extremes, until, lacking external guidance to keep swinging with equal force, they tend to tighter swings around a center of equilibrium. In order to get things done, Brownback was forced to draconian budget cuts, which didn’t work because they were so extreme. So the pendulum has swung in the other direction, but it’s extremely unlikely that it will swing so far left as to equal Brownback’s swing right. We may also see tighter swings right as BOTH the left AND the right seek better balance.
In the end, Kansans may restore necessary funding for some priorities, but they’re not about to become majority Democrats.
In the end, Kansans may restore necessary funding for some priorities, but they’re not about to become majority Democrats.
4
@Luettgen: A particularly lame attempt at false equivalence. The bottom line is this: when Republicans get enough power to do whatever they want, they screw up badly. Their ideology is exposed as invalid. George W. Bush is another perfect example. Slashing taxes on the rich while lying America into a multi-trillion-dollar unjustified war brought us to the edge of a second Great Depression. And a Democratic president had to come to the rescue.
6
Nedra,
The Left never "Screws up Badly" when they are in charge? You might want to take a look at California the "Anti-Kansas" increasing crime, taxes, debt and potholes, not to mention lousy expensive public schools.
Thank you single party Liberal rule!
The Left never "Screws up Badly" when they are in charge? You might want to take a look at California the "Anti-Kansas" increasing crime, taxes, debt and potholes, not to mention lousy expensive public schools.
Thank you single party Liberal rule!
2
I had an economics professor in the '80s who described the Laffer curve very simply. The curve plots government "revenue" vs tax rates and at the extreme right of the curve (100% taxes) government intake drops to $0 and everything fails. At the extreme left of the curve (zero taxes), the government takes in nothing and presumably anarchy blossoms.
The question, he said, was not whether extreme taxes hurt government revenue and the economy (though he was very liberal, he agreed that it would), the question, should be 'where are we on the curve?'. If we are to the left of the peak, increased taxes result in increased government revenue. If you are to the right of the peak, increased taxes result in less government intake.
Laffer convinced the true-believers that we were to the right of the curve's peak where increased taxes actually reduced the government in-take. And, conversely being past the peak meant decreasing taxes would actually raise government intake.
The problem was and still is this: no one ever proved where we were on the curve.
Perhaps Kansas is a good lesson in putting a nick in the Supply-Side myth (that we are always on the right half of the Laffer curve) and perhaps it narrows the chasm a tiny bit between extremes, but we're a long way away from Washington (or Sean Hannity or his far right brethren) accepting any evidence against their beloved tenet.
The question, he said, was not whether extreme taxes hurt government revenue and the economy (though he was very liberal, he agreed that it would), the question, should be 'where are we on the curve?'. If we are to the left of the peak, increased taxes result in increased government revenue. If you are to the right of the peak, increased taxes result in less government intake.
Laffer convinced the true-believers that we were to the right of the curve's peak where increased taxes actually reduced the government in-take. And, conversely being past the peak meant decreasing taxes would actually raise government intake.
The problem was and still is this: no one ever proved where we were on the curve.
Perhaps Kansas is a good lesson in putting a nick in the Supply-Side myth (that we are always on the right half of the Laffer curve) and perhaps it narrows the chasm a tiny bit between extremes, but we're a long way away from Washington (or Sean Hannity or his far right brethren) accepting any evidence against their beloved tenet.
11
"The cuts came. But the growth never did. As the rest of the country was growing at rates of just above 2 percent, Kansas grew at considerably slower rates, finally hitting just 0.2 percent in 2016.
I'd been following this and as amazed as I was that Brownback kept being re-elected, I was even more shocked at the veto override.
His and other republicans' no-tax mantra will probably be assessed by historians as the single-most ruinous government policy ever. Grover's "starve the beast" ignore what the "beast" really is.
We know defense spending is never cut, but usually increased. Ditto for any tax break of importance to the GOP. If it enrages the left, let it stay. But when it comes to campaigns, and in the case of Kansas, governing, cuts are supposed to mean efficiency and right-mindedness.
"Never spend on something you can't afford"--long the province of parents teaching kids about money. And yet, the GOP hasn't abandoned all spending, no, just the spending on " those people" and their "social engineering" programs.
Since when are food stamps social engineering? Doesn't eliminating them affect the overall health and wellbeing of the poor? Oh, I forgot--"those" people.
In short, despite Norquist's insufferable tax "rectitude", the GOP philosophy on taxes is really pretty simple: spend madly on defense and tax beaks for the rich--here, deficits are fine!--while cutting programs for the poor.
What's the matter with America?
I'd been following this and as amazed as I was that Brownback kept being re-elected, I was even more shocked at the veto override.
His and other republicans' no-tax mantra will probably be assessed by historians as the single-most ruinous government policy ever. Grover's "starve the beast" ignore what the "beast" really is.
We know defense spending is never cut, but usually increased. Ditto for any tax break of importance to the GOP. If it enrages the left, let it stay. But when it comes to campaigns, and in the case of Kansas, governing, cuts are supposed to mean efficiency and right-mindedness.
"Never spend on something you can't afford"--long the province of parents teaching kids about money. And yet, the GOP hasn't abandoned all spending, no, just the spending on " those people" and their "social engineering" programs.
Since when are food stamps social engineering? Doesn't eliminating them affect the overall health and wellbeing of the poor? Oh, I forgot--"those" people.
In short, despite Norquist's insufferable tax "rectitude", the GOP philosophy on taxes is really pretty simple: spend madly on defense and tax beaks for the rich--here, deficits are fine!--while cutting programs for the poor.
What's the matter with America?
31
I enjoy and appreciate your thoughtful comments.
My answer to your question – Tribal mentality, that's what's wrong. The GOP/Theocratic tribe is profoundly destructive. The GOP loves manipulating the fear of the Reptilian brain to grow and maintain the 'Tribe'.
My answer to your question – Tribal mentality, that's what's wrong. The GOP/Theocratic tribe is profoundly destructive. The GOP loves manipulating the fear of the Reptilian brain to grow and maintain the 'Tribe'.
2
Grover Norquist, and to a lesser extent the late NRA spokesman Charlton Heaton, should be judged more harshly for the incredible damage they've done to civil dialogue in American politics.
27
The modern Republican Party is an award-winning moral, intellectual and economic fraud that keeps 'winning' elections...albeit with the direct assistance of Fake News, hate radio, gerrymandering (hijacking), the slave-era Electoral College, the unrepresentative Senate and a 50-year campaign of White Spite, fear-and-loathing and the best-marketed cultured stupidity that billionaire campaign money can buy.
The Party of Greedy and Stupid occasionally hits a speed bump, as it has in Kansas and with American realizations that their Dunce Presidents (Dubya and our current Derriere-In-Chief) as among the most unqualified humans to lead the nation, but Republican political nihilism doesn't care - it doesn't have any conscience or moral center - because it has been reduced to a religious cult, where belief, feeling, and fear-and-loathing are its jet fuel...reason, facts, evidence and history be damned to the back of the church for obstructing the religious political service.
Bobby Jindal trashed Louisiana with tax cuts.
Chris Christie trashed New Jersey's transportation system with No-New-Tax-Cut Nincompoopery.
Sam Bankrupt bankrupted Kansas.
And Republicans have been bankrupting America with 'no new tax' nihilism for decades, even if it means letting Russia invade America's democracy.
Moral, intellectual and economic bankruptcy is the Republican political religion.
Voting Republican is voting for bankruptcy and for the end times.
Stop voting for religious Republican frauds.
The Party of Greedy and Stupid occasionally hits a speed bump, as it has in Kansas and with American realizations that their Dunce Presidents (Dubya and our current Derriere-In-Chief) as among the most unqualified humans to lead the nation, but Republican political nihilism doesn't care - it doesn't have any conscience or moral center - because it has been reduced to a religious cult, where belief, feeling, and fear-and-loathing are its jet fuel...reason, facts, evidence and history be damned to the back of the church for obstructing the religious political service.
Bobby Jindal trashed Louisiana with tax cuts.
Chris Christie trashed New Jersey's transportation system with No-New-Tax-Cut Nincompoopery.
Sam Bankrupt bankrupted Kansas.
And Republicans have been bankrupting America with 'no new tax' nihilism for decades, even if it means letting Russia invade America's democracy.
Moral, intellectual and economic bankruptcy is the Republican political religion.
Voting Republican is voting for bankruptcy and for the end times.
Stop voting for religious Republican frauds.
232
For the last 50 years every recession is a Republican recession and all republicans have had a recession. If you vote Republican you vote for a recession. It is just that simple.
9
It has been the government that has bankrupted America.
1
The good news is that "no religious affiliation" is experiencing rapid growth.
Reason may eventually carry the day.
Reason may eventually carry the day.
1
How long will it take for the voters to understand that supply side is a failure? Republicans started selling this snake oil in 1980 and what has been the result for the blue collar workers? Stagnant wages are the most glaring error. Trickle down does not work, period.
38
Supply side did work and American workers did benefit. Wages were not stagnate. They have been under the progressives both Bush and Obama.
Yeah, but republicans did keep the black man down which is really what those rural voters want. Oh wait, Obama! I guess they didn't.
2
The near perfect experiment is indeed what led the people of Kansas and their legislature to reverse course. I live in Alabama with a Republican legislature, governor and Supreme Court. Alabama has taken similar actions as those Kansas did and the results are similar but not so far down the road. But to let you know how bad it has gotten, the state's Senate Majority Leader was at one point in talks with the Poarch Band of Creek Indians based in Atmore about an exchange of all gaming rights in return for covering revenue shortfalls. It did not pan out though the Poarch Band were willing. Our drivers licensing offices have been selectively shut with those in predominantly African-American populated counties affected more. State Parks have had cut backs. With our current leadership, it will still be an uphill battle even faced with the evidence Kansas provided. The idea of cutting revenue to spur growth and thus increased revenue is one of the primary economic beliefs that separate Republicans from Democrats. I considered the story as second only to the hearings in front of the Senate Intelligence Committee last Wednesday and Thursday. I think that Admiral Rogers and Director Coats have stories to tell in that forum but decided last week was not the time. The lie that Brownback based his proposals on are "Zombie" lies and do not die easily. Paul Samuelson's Econ 101 textbook I used in the early 1970 steered me completely away from it.
26
Putting more money in lots of pockets is better for the economy that putting lots of money in the pockets of the few. The rich just can't buy enough to fuel the economy. So much more obvious than the Lauffer nonsense.
67
My father was a pharmacist when they molded there own tablets, made their own cough medicines and were experts in pharmacology, there trade. When I became ill, my father would come home with medicine he'd made himself from scratch. Not trying to please the public at-large, the medicine always tasted, well, like medicine. But the end result was that I always recovered and from some pretty serious illnesses.
My point, taxes aren't supposed to feel good or taste good. What they are supposed to do is improve the general lot of the people, if, just like medicine, they are used properly.
My point, taxes aren't supposed to feel good or taste good. What they are supposed to do is improve the general lot of the people, if, just like medicine, they are used properly.
43
All to often tax money is not used used wisely. Government is by it's nature is inefficient.
1
Wes Evans: Governments, like any other institution, are comprised of PEOPLE. People are inefficient, greedy, self-serving, etc., etc., etc. YOU are, as a voting citizen, as much a part of the government as those you elect. Take responsibility for your (non)actions--want better government--be a better citizen. (Last phrase courtesy of Jim Wright, retired US Navy Chief Warrant Officer)
2
As citizens we have a dual responsibility. We will pay our taxes. That is not the end of our responsibility. We should ensure that our hard earned tax dollars are put to legitimate, effective and efficient uses. Both responsibilities are intertwined and symbiotically related.
22
No taxes = no nation. It's as simple as that. A boundary within which all that goes on is ever more unregulated "business" doesn't make a nation.
57
Sane Republicans (and I know that you used to exist...perhaps some of you are still out there) need to go to school on Bruce Bartlett's writing, which makes the case for higher taxes.
Papa Bush and Bill Clinton raised taxes in successive Presidential terms, and a large majority of Americans (including America's multi-millionaires and billionaires) ended up with a significantly higher net worth by the end of that period.
Supply-side is a theory that has been demonstrated, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to not work (except in the minds of the zombies that the Koch Brothers and Grover Norquist created).
The fact is that government is much better suited to reinvesting tax revenues in the national interest than multi-millionaires and billionaires. Sometimes, if you want make more money, you have to invest it the right areas, in a nation's people, and in a nation's future.
Supply-side is fake news.
Papa Bush and Bill Clinton raised taxes in successive Presidential terms, and a large majority of Americans (including America's multi-millionaires and billionaires) ended up with a significantly higher net worth by the end of that period.
Supply-side is a theory that has been demonstrated, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to not work (except in the minds of the zombies that the Koch Brothers and Grover Norquist created).
The fact is that government is much better suited to reinvesting tax revenues in the national interest than multi-millionaires and billionaires. Sometimes, if you want make more money, you have to invest it the right areas, in a nation's people, and in a nation's future.
Supply-side is fake news.
232
As the old business adage says, "It takes money to make money." In this case money from taxes.
1
"Supply-side is fake news".
A superb verbal coup de grâce, Matthew.
A superb verbal coup de grâce, Matthew.
5
Mathew,
And sometimes the Government is not better. Two words, Elon Musk! There are a lot more examples that can be offered, past and present.
And sometimes the Government is not better. Two words, Elon Musk! There are a lot more examples that can be offered, past and present.
1
goo article and good comment from CCC from Baltimore. Here in Virginia we suffer from the same anti-tax mentality which hurts our transportation, healthcare, public education, and for the poor. Our assembly will not raise the gas tax to fund our highways and help with Metrorail in Northern VA; it won't allow localities to raise taxes either. State taxes go mostly for education, highways, prisons, healthcare, and public colleges and are thus investments and necessary to helping the community grow economically.
15
While the politicians in Kansas seemed to have figured it out, Congress led by Trump, McConnell and Ryan are steering the country down the same destructive path that created the economic disaster that was Kansas. Unless there is a sea change in Republican thinking, the U.S. is on the road to becoming Brownback's Kansas.
48
CT is a great example of a what happens when tax and spend Democrats control the government. CT tax revenues have declined after multiple tax hikes. People and businesses have left the state. The state's budget is a mess.
6
For 70 years both parties failed to properly fund obligations. Before he went to prison, Republican Governor John Rowland added to the ballooning cost of these unfounded liabilties by signing a very unfavorable 20 year union contract his party has been howling about ever since. Both he and his LT Governor and successor Jodi Rell raised reserves. Governor Rell warned that as a result of the looming crisis (and her own actions) her successor would have to raise taxes. No kidding, however after decades of malfeasance they have not been sufficient to address the magnitude of the problem decades in the making. Democratic governor Dan Malloy has achieved union concessions his Republican predecessors could only dream of. And he has cut spending to levels not seen in decades. There is no easy fix to this mess but your assessment is no where near an accurate portrayal. If you want to enact Kansas style tax cuts then you will surely drive out more businesses and residents. Incidentally, only 7.8% of total tax revenue is paid by corporations.
6
Well it's apparent they didn't go to Kansas.
"CT tax revenues have declined after multiple tax hikes. People and businesses have left the state."
"CT tax revenues have declined after multiple tax hikes. People and businesses have left the state."
2
Having grown up in CT, it seems to have a whole lot of issues with cost. A near top of the states cost of living (even before taxes), zombie major cities, a generally dour demeanor amongst many, and as you've hit it, ridiculous taxes for the services that are rendered along with pension systems that are broken on nearly every level statewide. One thing of note, though, is that while Malloy is a Democrat, taxes have soared for years, all of which have been Republicans including what was Republican to Indy Wicker. No party seems to own financial stupidity alone in CT.
4
The good news is that the Kansas experiment is concluding, the evidence is in and "voodoo economics' does not work (just in case anyone ever really thought it might). It is nice to see that the Kansas GOP is now trying to right the ship despite the objections of Sam the Man and their own previous efforts to scuttle it.
Unfortunately, many of their Washington based GOP colleagues are now following the lead of the recently elected chief miscreant in his new "Griftopia." They see that, like the president, their is no need to even pretend to care if tax cuts help the economy as long as it helps them and their own. It really is all about lining your own pocket, come what may to the rest of the republic.
Unfortunately, many of their Washington based GOP colleagues are now following the lead of the recently elected chief miscreant in his new "Griftopia." They see that, like the president, their is no need to even pretend to care if tax cuts help the economy as long as it helps them and their own. It really is all about lining your own pocket, come what may to the rest of the republic.
234
come what may is so true. the repubs wouldn't fund the recovery enough becuase they didn't want it to work.
1
The word "tax" has an onerous odor. The word "investment" has a more preferable nose. Taxes are investments for which we all receive enormous benefits. A strong infrastructure and a healthy educated citizenry smells as sweet as Mom's apple pie.
41
The shift in the force , its beginning : )
11
This is like finding a penny on the sidewalk and thinking you are now a millionaire. I wouldn't hold my breath. After all, the Republic party is still in control. If you were brain damaged enough to believe in the Laffer curve and Noah and the beasts on the ark, you are not likely to start functioning like a thinking human being all of a sudden.
Further, this experiment has been done already in California with Prop 13. There it took 25 years for people to see the light and kick out the Republics. Shen that happened, six to seven years ago, there were the standard Republic trolls in this space commenting that businesses were tripping over each other trying to leave California, and the state would soon be bankrupt, that it would soon be populated entirely by peons who did not know how to rub two sticks together.
Well it hasn't happened yet. CA seems to doing pretty well. We should wait another fifteen years with full Democrat control to properly do the counter experiment, but I'm not holding my breath for that either. The electorate seems to have this desire for electing Republics after the Democrats have fixed things up from the disaster created by the previous Republic party goon.
Further, this experiment has been done already in California with Prop 13. There it took 25 years for people to see the light and kick out the Republics. Shen that happened, six to seven years ago, there were the standard Republic trolls in this space commenting that businesses were tripping over each other trying to leave California, and the state would soon be bankrupt, that it would soon be populated entirely by peons who did not know how to rub two sticks together.
Well it hasn't happened yet. CA seems to doing pretty well. We should wait another fifteen years with full Democrat control to properly do the counter experiment, but I'm not holding my breath for that either. The electorate seems to have this desire for electing Republics after the Democrats have fixed things up from the disaster created by the previous Republic party goon.
44
W,
You might want to look at California now. The Liberals have run amok and debt along with taxes are soaring. The potholes, of course are with us always.
You might want to look at California now. The Liberals have run amok and debt along with taxes are soaring. The potholes, of course are with us always.
Hilariously ignorant. The reason taxes are rarely raised, by any majority anywhere, is the middle classes oppose it vehemently. Including self-identified liberals with between $125K and $200K in household income. Why? Because HOW monies are spent is the gripe, not whether monies should be raised.
ITEM: The State of NY has repeatedly "dedicated" a tax or revenue stream to a specific purpose - the charlatans I have worked for like to call these artifices "locked boxes", hermetically sealed and safe from frivolous raids. Over the decades, this sham has been repeated with regard to road maintenance. Well, longtime observers know better. Along comes....something....and voila! The "locked box" is no more. Driven in NY lately? Right. So let's stop this nonsense about a revenue problem; the problem is, has been and remains a spending problem. If you aspire to get into print, try actually knowing something about the subject you're covering.
ITEM: The State of NY has repeatedly "dedicated" a tax or revenue stream to a specific purpose - the charlatans I have worked for like to call these artifices "locked boxes", hermetically sealed and safe from frivolous raids. Over the decades, this sham has been repeated with regard to road maintenance. Well, longtime observers know better. Along comes....something....and voila! The "locked box" is no more. Driven in NY lately? Right. So let's stop this nonsense about a revenue problem; the problem is, has been and remains a spending problem. If you aspire to get into print, try actually knowing something about the subject you're covering.
6
So, you are suggesting that politicians take a "no spend" pledge, not a "no tax" one? The Tea Party would succeed in closing down state governments even faster.
7
So Brown was right with the cuts and the Repubs in Kansas were wrong to increase taxes later?
3
Spending problem? You can't spend what you don't have. Kansas is in a financial shambles.
Comprehensive, concise and readable. A vital topic that everyone needs to understand with the appropriate level of outrage.
Now all concerned need to proceed with just the right touch of common purpose in order to turn this tide around. Let the finger pointing and name calling fall to the wayside. If people --players and observers alike--can take the first step toward better policy through more thoughtful dialogue, support it, praise it and proceed. Claiming vindication or expressing smugness just slows down any move toward better government.
Keep calm and carry on for God's sake...and our own.
Now all concerned need to proceed with just the right touch of common purpose in order to turn this tide around. Let the finger pointing and name calling fall to the wayside. If people --players and observers alike--can take the first step toward better policy through more thoughtful dialogue, support it, praise it and proceed. Claiming vindication or expressing smugness just slows down any move toward better government.
Keep calm and carry on for God's sake...and our own.
10
When people want change they vote for it for that reason alone, not due to a particular policy as was demonstrated in the last election. Kansas is not too different from West Virginia (note the author hasn't remained there) in that it suffers from a dearth of start-ups and hi-tech businesses. Agriculture, energy, and education are simply not going to generate much additional tax income nowadays, nor will increased taxes on the residents of Overland Park. The author, an avowed progressive, seems to believe that the government will grow the economy. Let's see how that works out.
4
Yes, the government won't grow the economy.
But then bad roads, poor infrastructure, spotty access to the internet, lackluster or bad schools, etc., etc., don't grow the economy either.
Where I live we had an experiment some years ago with "No new taxes" (And yes, like everyone else I like to pay less rather than more). The whole thing started to unravel when middle-class neighborhoods far from the big city started to notice that they had to hold fund-raisers to buy their kid's schools up-to-date text books.
In other words, you get what you are willing to pay for as there is no magic tooth fairy around to wave a wand and get public sector workers to magically agree to work for minimum wage.
But then bad roads, poor infrastructure, spotty access to the internet, lackluster or bad schools, etc., etc., don't grow the economy either.
Where I live we had an experiment some years ago with "No new taxes" (And yes, like everyone else I like to pay less rather than more). The whole thing started to unravel when middle-class neighborhoods far from the big city started to notice that they had to hold fund-raisers to buy their kid's schools up-to-date text books.
In other words, you get what you are willing to pay for as there is no magic tooth fairy around to wave a wand and get public sector workers to magically agree to work for minimum wage.
22
Kansas has fewer people than any of the top 18 metro areas in the US. Let's not make it sound like what goes on there is important.
3
They still have 2 Senators and both are Republicans. So yes, what happens there is important. Gerrymandering wouldn't have impacted Senate races or the Governor's. So this State is deep red. What they do in response to Republican mismanagement will be telling.
29
Kansas has 2 of the 100 US Senators, which is on par with the State of New York or California. For that reason alone, What goes on in Kansas, the Dakotas, etc. has a profound effect on the fate of our nation. This Republican reversal in Kansas is big. This failed experiment is what changes statewide politics and senate seats. What has happened in Kansas will eventually have an impact on us all.
8
For Republicans, a pledge to Grover Norquist is more important than their oath of office. Support and defend the Constitution?
161
Brownback is prevented by term-limits to run again, so who is running on the GOP side to take his place? Chris Kobach, the scourge of "voter fraud".
"Kobach, who is a figure of national controversy for his hardline stance on illegal immigration, called Kansas the “sanctuary state of the Midwest” and claimed that the state spends hundreds of millions on public services for illegal immigrants.
He lambasted Kansas lawmakers for raising taxes “on hard-working Kansans” by repealing Gov. Sam Brownback’s tax cuts Tuesday to fill the state’s budget hole and contended that the state could have saved dollars by restricting immigration."
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article155063589.html...
This will be the real test of whether Kansans have come to their senses, if they can send this guy packing, hopefully off to some right-wing "think-tank" where can sing for his supper.
"Kobach, who is a figure of national controversy for his hardline stance on illegal immigration, called Kansas the “sanctuary state of the Midwest” and claimed that the state spends hundreds of millions on public services for illegal immigrants.
He lambasted Kansas lawmakers for raising taxes “on hard-working Kansans” by repealing Gov. Sam Brownback’s tax cuts Tuesday to fill the state’s budget hole and contended that the state could have saved dollars by restricting immigration."
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article155063589.html...
This will be the real test of whether Kansans have come to their senses, if they can send this guy packing, hopefully off to some right-wing "think-tank" where can sing for his supper.
134
Yup, still big potential for "what's the matter with Kansas" to keep right on going. With the mean & nasty Kobach running for governor, there is still much that could send it right back into the tailspin it is just beginning to correct.
1
Reality comes the Kansas four years late but at least it has. Best thing about this is Republicans were forced to face it. Usually they would be voted out and the democrats would be forced to do it giving cover to irresponsible delusional Republicans but for once they were forced to right their own wrong!
34
A great many "no taxes no matter what" Republicans WERE voted out at the last elections. This, and really only this, is what finally got through to the Republicans who were left in the legislature.
While Susan Wagle, Senate majority leader, was quoted in the press at the time as hearing a lot from constituents that these disastrous tax cuts had to go, she still voted again and AGAIN against the repeal bill until the absolute last moment. As you can figure out, she has her eye on higher office.
So don't give them TOO much credit just yet.
While Susan Wagle, Senate majority leader, was quoted in the press at the time as hearing a lot from constituents that these disastrous tax cuts had to go, she still voted again and AGAIN against the repeal bill until the absolute last moment. As you can figure out, she has her eye on higher office.
So don't give them TOO much credit just yet.
1
I wish we would stop focusing on "tax cuts" and more on tax level. The Laffer curve is not laughable but actually realistic - take too much money out of the peoples' hands and you will depress the economy - take too little in taxes and government cannot provide essential services. Laffer himself admitted he did not know where along the axis of total tax rate the curve was situated. Somewhere there is "sweet spot" where the government takes enough in taxes to do what citizens cannot do by themselves but leaves them with enough money to keep the economy vital. And of course the actual distribution of the tax burden through different income levels is important. The tragedy is that the Republicans won't engage in the discussion but focus entirely on the PROCESS of tax cuts and not on the desired endpoint. It is like trying to hit a target by always adjusting your aim in one direction only: eventually you overshoot and further adjustments only make your aim worse.
10
The Laffer curve, like most econ stick drawings, oversimplifies what little it does attempt to describe. I'd love to see econ grow up and learn calculus. Every bit of spending has multipliers. Those multipliers are larger for some public spending than some types of private spending. There is a difference between debt service at high and low inflation. Productivity is misunderstood. The true jobless rate remains unmeasured. Finally some government spending is investment with an roi, and some is money down a rathole. The Laffer curve is a chalk drawing on a sidewalk, when we need Deep Blue.
12
Okay. Great. Hooray for Kansas. They finally see the light after much self-flagellating abuse. Now we need that same message, the one Kansas finally got, to our elected elites inside the Beltway. And make it loud and clear. Can we do this? Can we do it like...now?
John~
American Net'Zen
John~
American Net'Zen
13
The veto override is huge. Brownback is a doltish former Senator who knows little and understands even less. Pretty much why he succeeded in Kansas in politics. Interesting how Kansas went from a union state to a owners paradise in a little over a generation. How it went from the hot bed of offbeat religious sects to a proto one faith stan in about 100 years. And a place where a woman could get a safe, legal abortion to no chance in about a generation. Won't say this is the turn, but the bottom might be close.
27
No new taxes? HA! They just have a new word for it: FEES, and they increase at a steady rate on just about everything.
15
Yes dear. That's what happens when taxes are cut. You have to find another way to pay for services. Did you think they were free?
7
Dear Andrew S:
Atikin does not think services are free. His or her point is that it is mendacious in the extreme to cut taxes, and to proclaim that Kansas is a low-tax state, when the money is being collected in other ways (and probably more regressively, I might add).
Atikin does not think services are free. His or her point is that it is mendacious in the extreme to cut taxes, and to proclaim that Kansas is a low-tax state, when the money is being collected in other ways (and probably more regressively, I might add).
The next chapter in this story will be written by ordinary Kansas Republicans If they choose to punish legislators who supported the override - including powerful lawmakers like Sens. Longbine and Denning, or Rep. Ryckman - either by supporting primary challengers or sitting out the general election, the state's experiment in fiscal responsibility will be short-lived.
As for the party's continuing adherence to extreme supply-side economics, Mr. Tomasky's explanation seems to deny the obvious: "It’s not because of cable news, or social media or even the corrupting influence of big money in politics. It’s because Republicans won’t agree to a penny in tax increases of any kind — income taxes, payroll taxes, the gasoline tax, anything." OK, but why won't Republicans agree to a penny in tax increases? Might it have something to do with cable news, social media, and the corrupting influence of big money in politics?
As for the party's continuing adherence to extreme supply-side economics, Mr. Tomasky's explanation seems to deny the obvious: "It’s not because of cable news, or social media or even the corrupting influence of big money in politics. It’s because Republicans won’t agree to a penny in tax increases of any kind — income taxes, payroll taxes, the gasoline tax, anything." OK, but why won't Republicans agree to a penny in tax increases? Might it have something to do with cable news, social media, and the corrupting influence of big money in politics?
16
Perhaps the same solution is occurring in DC and there actually is light at the end of the tunnel when the American people experience the consequences of Republican control of congress and the executive branch.
The problem is the tunnel after the light. Americans should have learned their lesson long ago- if you treat the federal government like the enemy it can't be your friend- and if it isn't your friend, who have you got?
America had only recently suffered the consequences of a simplistic, tax cutting, regulation hating president in GW, who ultimately pummeled our economy. Then was ready to be tricked again by the same old arguments just 2 years after his fall with a Republican congress, just because Obama couldn't get us out of the ditch fast enough.
Fool me once... Nope, the Republican party is Lucy with a football. We are a bunch of Charlie Browns.
The problem is the tunnel after the light. Americans should have learned their lesson long ago- if you treat the federal government like the enemy it can't be your friend- and if it isn't your friend, who have you got?
America had only recently suffered the consequences of a simplistic, tax cutting, regulation hating president in GW, who ultimately pummeled our economy. Then was ready to be tricked again by the same old arguments just 2 years after his fall with a Republican congress, just because Obama couldn't get us out of the ditch fast enough.
Fool me once... Nope, the Republican party is Lucy with a football. We are a bunch of Charlie Browns.
41
I hope that future history will accurately record the incalculable damage that Grover Norquist and his acolytes have done to the United States of America.
250
Hopefully 'Norquistling' will became a word.
2
Everyone in Congress who has taken the Grover Norquist pledge should be asked:
1. Do you swear to follow your oath to the Constitution in every case that it conflicts with your oath to Grover Norquist?
1a. If yes, do you swear to raise taxes as necessary to prevent unnecessary deaths of the citizenry, to ensure an educated citizenry, to protect the citizenry from fraud, theft and violence, and to protect the Constitution?
2a. If yes to 1a, fine, keep serving. If no to 1a, see 1b.
1b. If no, will you resign? If you will not, will you renounce your US Citizenship and leave the country as soon as possible? If you will not leave, you will stand trial for Treason against the Constitution and the US based on your attempts to sacrifice the lives of your fellow citizens in adherence to your oath to Grover Norquist.
1. Do you swear to follow your oath to the Constitution in every case that it conflicts with your oath to Grover Norquist?
1a. If yes, do you swear to raise taxes as necessary to prevent unnecessary deaths of the citizenry, to ensure an educated citizenry, to protect the citizenry from fraud, theft and violence, and to protect the Constitution?
2a. If yes to 1a, fine, keep serving. If no to 1a, see 1b.
1b. If no, will you resign? If you will not, will you renounce your US Citizenship and leave the country as soon as possible? If you will not leave, you will stand trial for Treason against the Constitution and the US based on your attempts to sacrifice the lives of your fellow citizens in adherence to your oath to Grover Norquist.
We are living now with major problems that need to be addressed now. Right now I could care less what the future thinks of our leadership. Get them out now.
I do not know of any country that build infrastructure without government spending
133
The whole lucrative scam of public-private partnership is why Gary Cohn of Goldman Sachs, greedy but not stupid, signed on to the Trump cabinet. Who do you think is going to be managing the flimflammery of all the boondoggles, while skimming an unhealthy percentage off the top? By the time these vulture are done, there won't be enough money left to pave a piece of toast, which was the plan all along.
Peace100, didn't you know it was magic anti-tax fairies who provided for public infrastructure in Republican fantasyland?
6
Eq: I'm really glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read y9our comment. I's be cleaning my screen right now. Good line!!!
1
"This made compromise possible."
This 27 year long experiment has proven beyond doubt that not compromising has put them in a compromised situation.
Glad to hear that Kansans are finally, at long last , displaying some of that midwestern common sense they used to be well noted for.
This 27 year long experiment has proven beyond doubt that not compromising has put them in a compromised situation.
Glad to hear that Kansans are finally, at long last , displaying some of that midwestern common sense they used to be well noted for.
13
The notion that "Republicans are not supposed to raise taxes, ever" is a simplistic Progressive caricature. Republicans are not "always" opposed to increasing taxes. The real issue isn't taxes - it's a growing Leviathan state. And because an ever increasing State needs ever increasing revenue, this means they are generally against any tax increases. The reality is that most governments, including Kansas, don't have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem. And it is mainly Progressives who are unwilling to prioritize that spending. Instead, they reflexively want to "raise taxes," ostensibly on some nefarious "1%". But, if they were honest, they would actually ask the people who would benefit, i.e. the middle class, whether they are willing to pay for it. In most cases, the answer is no.
21
You are mistaken about Kansas. Everything was slashed. Cuts to education have been draconian. Kansas went from maintaining/resurfacing 2,000 miles of roads per year to about 200. That is because the governor kept raising the highway fund because there was almost no money -- literally almost no money -- in the general fund. Kansas has had a revenue problem since this destructive tax policy went into effect. Go back and read Op-Ed pieces from newspapers published in very small western Kansas towns. These are places that are emblematic of red state America. No gerrymandering required in these places: a Democrat will never, ever be elected to the US House or Senate. All of these newspapers in Hays, Great Bend, Salina and on and on have been condemning the extreme tax cuts for the last few years. And that is because what Kansas has is a revenue problem.
31
*raiding the highway fund. Transferring funds meant for the roads to the general fund.
10
"Spending problem".
There is no successful, industrialized country in the world that governs by any kind of low tax policy. There is a simple reason for this. A complex society cannot sustain itself on such policies. Low taxes hollows out a society, transfers wealth to the richest and corporations, and leaves too little to maintain and growth the society for the common good.
Conservatives do not seem to recognize any kind of "common good".
There is no successful, industrialized country in the world that governs by any kind of low tax policy. There is a simple reason for this. A complex society cannot sustain itself on such policies. Low taxes hollows out a society, transfers wealth to the richest and corporations, and leaves too little to maintain and growth the society for the common good.
Conservatives do not seem to recognize any kind of "common good".
12
I agree with Susan. Unless conservatives accept the results of the failure of the Kansas experiment (and the failure of pro-growth tax cuts overall) we still have not gotten anywhere.
29
This may be heresy, but the WaPo had a great article on this Kansas issue and whether it portends a restrengthening of the moderate wing of the GOP. I recommend it to you all!
4
Do people ever wonder who pays for roads, schools,
internet r and d, libraries, hospitals, police , fire,
water systems, garbage pick up, etc?
The fact is taxes help all of us by providing
a structure so that the economy can exist.
Even people like trump would not be rich without
the benefit of a tax base,
Try opening a business in Yemen or Etrea where
they don't pay taxes!
If you believe in a common good and participating
in society you pay taxes, Republicans hate the notion
of the common good.
Now if we could only have single payer healthcare!
internet r and d, libraries, hospitals, police , fire,
water systems, garbage pick up, etc?
The fact is taxes help all of us by providing
a structure so that the economy can exist.
Even people like trump would not be rich without
the benefit of a tax base,
Try opening a business in Yemen or Etrea where
they don't pay taxes!
If you believe in a common good and participating
in society you pay taxes, Republicans hate the notion
of the common good.
Now if we could only have single payer healthcare!
144
Your argument falls apart by not acknowledging that most of the taxes spent on those items goes to fund the outrageous salaries, gold plated benefits and million dollar pensions of pothole fillers, cops and teachers. I don't think many would object as strenuously to paying if, for instance, those working for all levels of government were draftees paid a substance wage. It would prove that government works for the taxpayer not the other way around. When every cent I earn until spring goes to my taxes each year, we've certainly lost sight of that.
1
Don't worry. Spring is coming earlier and earlier every year. And I'm glad that during the shorter winters you will be warmed by the thought of teachers surviving on subsistence wages.
22
"I don't think many would object as strenuously to paying if, for instance, those working for all levels of government were draftees paid a substance wage."
That's your solution? DRAFT teachers and cops and then pay them as little as possible, so that your tax bill will go down? Cheapskate conservatives, who care about nothing beyond the size of their tax bill, might not object, but those of us who care about little things like liberty, education, and public safety most certainly would.
That's your solution? DRAFT teachers and cops and then pay them as little as possible, so that your tax bill will go down? Cheapskate conservatives, who care about nothing beyond the size of their tax bill, might not object, but those of us who care about little things like liberty, education, and public safety most certainly would.
9
"Total and complete vindication" - said the Democratic Party as it reportedly tweeted at 6 AM on Twitter. In all seriousness, when will the GOP abandon their Voodoo economic policies?
10
States like CT/IL have almost junk-grade bonds and crazy obligations they cannot pay, with the former losing GE and, soon, Aetna. Combined with egregiously high tax rates, those tax-and-spend states face different problems.
Kansas is proof extreme tax cutting doesnt work, neither does tons of taxes.
Money goes where it is treated best.
Kansas is proof extreme tax cutting doesnt work, neither does tons of taxes.
Money goes where it is treated best.
7
In Illinois, the problem is a governor who won't restore the income tax rate to 5%, from its current starvation level. It is NOT because of overspending.
15
KLF,
You just might want to review IL's public pension liabilities before you comment.
You just might want to review IL's public pension liabilities before you comment.
Scott, and that turns out to be high tax Callfornia, now the fifth largest economy in the world.
1
Tax reduction to the point that a state cannot pay for the fundamental infrastructure and education it needs produces two things: a tiny bit of growth and a whole lot of debt. Reagan proved this on a massive scale. You can't fix your car on a credit card and not increase your debt. The Laffer Curve has proven to be laughable. Our own economic history shows 'trickle down' is a con, used to rationalize tiny tax cuts for the occupants of Main Street and massive tax cuts for the occupants of Wall Street. Let's get smart about this and punt on failed 'voodoo economics'.
83
It is typical of NY Times readers to get the Laffer Curve wrong.
The Laffer Curve says that there is an optimal point in terms of revenue collection. In other words, high tax rates do not always increase tax collection, because of incentives to avoid taxes.
I recommend you read up on Hauser's Law that showed that there is little (but not zero) connection between tax receipts and tax rates.
The Laffer Curve says that there is an optimal point in terms of revenue collection. In other words, high tax rates do not always increase tax collection, because of incentives to avoid taxes.
I recommend you read up on Hauser's Law that showed that there is little (but not zero) connection between tax receipts and tax rates.
1
I find this to be a sign of a how deep the problem is instead of a turning point. In a place where the extreme is so clear and the effects of those extremes played out just as clearly, there's still a GOP executive branch and half the GOP legislators who opposed the measure.
They didn't understand or care about the math before and they still don't understand or care about the math now.
They didn't understand or care about the math before and they still don't understand or care about the math now.
485
As I recall, when Kansas was drowning in red ink due to Brownback's absurd tax cut fantasy the voters reelected him anyway. And instead of a life preserver the good governor threw Kansans an anvil. Kansa voters went 56% for Trump compared to 36% for Clinton. The state is still a very log way from rescue.
14
At the risk of being churlish....I remind us all that the mess we're in is not the fault of the odious GOP or the degenerate in the White House. Ours is a representative democracy, and all those in government were put there by American voters. Which, to me, is the most horrifying fact of them all, and the reason I cannot summon a whisper of optimism about our chances. Nearly as many people in this country voted for a manifestly unqualified dolt like Trump as comprise the entire population of the United Kingdom. How do you deal with THAT?
2
I'll give you a recommend there Sarah, no need to be churlish if its intentional as I don't disagree with what you're saying. I would alter it slightly for my own personal view to be more of a symbiotic relationship, I believe they reflect voters views accurately but that some of those views are inserted there.
I understand fully how patronizing that makes me come off but the part of my brain that handles logic can't reconcile many of the views held by these voters detrimental to themselves that fly in the face of most reputable expert's opinions. You won't find too many economists who thought winding down government spending when Kansas did it was wise but you'll find a lot of Koch brothers. Why isn't it patronizing? Because I hope when the day comes that they see something as obvious they can point it out to me just as civilly.
I understand fully how patronizing that makes me come off but the part of my brain that handles logic can't reconcile many of the views held by these voters detrimental to themselves that fly in the face of most reputable expert's opinions. You won't find too many economists who thought winding down government spending when Kansas did it was wise but you'll find a lot of Koch brothers. Why isn't it patronizing? Because I hope when the day comes that they see something as obvious they can point it out to me just as civilly.
The failed Republican trickle-down experiment in Kansas is a grim harbinger of what would happen to the United States if Trump's inane tax cut proposal was implemented.
140
I have been looking and looking to read conservative analyses of what happened in Kansas. I have read a great deal of mainstream media coverage, and some liberal coverage, but could find NO commentaries from conservative media. I did see some quotes from Kansas conservatives in the more mainstream stories that "we needed to cut spending further." But that's it, no analysis, no effort to capture movement in the Kansas Republican party.
250
Wonder if they would like to only open schools three days a week instead of four, which is where they had arrived at. Good post.
12
That is because even traditionally conservative media outlets in Kansas have been pushing for tax increases for the past 2-3 years. It's tough for national conservative media to do an analysis of it because there is no way to analyze it to come out with the conclusion that the tax cuts were working or that they would start working eventually. They were a disaster from beginning to end.
16
Is Kansas even part of the United States? I thought it was part of some foreign nation, you know, like Hawaii.
'' ... a move that could well be the first step in a transformation of American politics much more far-reaching than anything that could come from Russiagate. '''
Uhmm, No.
Hyperbole aside, republicans will do the bare minimum when it is THEIR kids not having a school or THEIR roads needing potholes fixed or THEIR communities kept safe from crime.
Of course, when I present in caps;'' THEIR '', I do mean concentrated grouping of like minded politically and socially. ( and of course with the melanin deficient )
Put that to the test of taxing more for social programs for the underprivileged, the inner cities or those that are have more melanin, and well...
You get the picture.
Uhmm, No.
Hyperbole aside, republicans will do the bare minimum when it is THEIR kids not having a school or THEIR roads needing potholes fixed or THEIR communities kept safe from crime.
Of course, when I present in caps;'' THEIR '', I do mean concentrated grouping of like minded politically and socially. ( and of course with the melanin deficient )
Put that to the test of taxing more for social programs for the underprivileged, the inner cities or those that are have more melanin, and well...
You get the picture.
31
I like to think that my mother, who was born and raised in a small Kansas town and received a first rate education at the University of Kansas, is "resting" a bit easier in her grave with this news of the Republican Kansas Legislature beginning to come to its senses. Let's hope this signals a trend.
75
Before budget cuts, Kansas schools were once among the top 15 in the country. Afterwards, they were dropping quickly, even approaching the marginal New York school system. Here is to restoring their former quality.
3
Opioid crisis? My generation, the Baby Boomers, have our own personal drug problem. That drug is tax cuts and the Republicans are more than happy to buy our vote with the promise of our drug of choice. Look at Kansas, that's how Republicans win elections. My generation would be better named the Deadbeat Generation as we are more than happy to vote for the drug of our choice and let our children and grand children pay our debt as we die off. Sorry kids, tax cuts and phony wars are now yours to pay off. Good luck with that in our Republican demanded and achieved deregulated low wage economy. Shoveling more money to the top in the new gilded age is obviously not the answer.
326
This comment is offensive. Would you say all young male African Americans are drug dealers? Would you say all Gay men are promiscuous spreaders of AIDS? Would you say all women are "too emotional" to be CEOs? Would you say all Christians are hypocrites? That all liberals fiscally irresponsible? None of those are true.
Please don't paint an entire group of people with the same brush. It's not okay. It divides us and angers us. It's how Fox "News" is destroying our Republic.
Please don't paint an entire group of people with the same brush. It's not okay. It divides us and angers us. It's how Fox "News" is destroying our Republic.
1
Well, Mr. Tesla/McTeagle, it happens to be the case. Try not to get your panties in a bunch over a comment. You ARE right about Fox News though.
Mr. M,
The Taxes in NJ are about as high as any in the nation and a one way drive across it is over thirty dollars each way traffic, potholes and all.
Exactly how much better off are the working folks for all the tax money they pay, than are the working folks in Kansas?
The Taxes in NJ are about as high as any in the nation and a one way drive across it is over thirty dollars each way traffic, potholes and all.
Exactly how much better off are the working folks for all the tax money they pay, than are the working folks in Kansas?
Math finally hits home in Kansas. Three cheers for Brother Tomasky
Supply side has always been a con. The Repubds in Kansas
finally woke up and smelled the covfefe
Supply side has always been a con. The Repubds in Kansas
finally woke up and smelled the covfefe
491
This draconian anti-tax form of ideological purity that has been practiced by Republicans for decades has depressed the economy, cost jobs, sent budget deficits soaring, denied the public essential services, some of them constitutionally mandated, left our infrastructure crumbling, retarded innovation, and undermined, gridlocked, and hamstrung necessary government institutions from serving the public as they should, and more.
That the people of Kansas have finally rebuked this rigid and foolish orthodoxy is a ray of hope in an otherwise darkening horizon for our country.
Let us hope that other states come to a similar epiphany and get off the anti-government, anti-tax express train to d.
That the people of Kansas have finally rebuked this rigid and foolish orthodoxy is a ray of hope in an otherwise darkening horizon for our country.
Let us hope that other states come to a similar epiphany and get off the anti-government, anti-tax express train to d.
548
republican politicians will not give it up until they also give up evangelical christianity as a political tool. ever since they started mixing religion with governance we have been treated to their "beliefs". faith in God demands not giving up on the belief in His power to love and guide you in time of need. this same type of faith, however, has no place in tax policy or environmental policy or public health policy. these are some of the matters for which we have an intellect, we don't need faith to solve our problems we need our minds in gear and open.
4
Just a "ray" in a still very dark place.
Frankly the knowledge that 95% of Republicans sign a no tax pledge to a man who doesn't even hold elected office is repugnant. Grover Norquist may claim that Ronald Reagan inspired him to come up with this nonsense but news flash, it's not the 80's anymore and we have real issues that require grownup solutions based on compromise. This pledge has caused irreparable damage to our country but like Kansas the harm can be reversed if our politicians decide to be brave and think of their country for a change.
We've been at war for nearly two decades. Not every American can serve their country as a soldier but we can and should pay taxes to pay for that war. FDR paid for WWII using taxes and war bonds. Eisenhower used those higher taxes after the war on infrastructure making us the envy of the world.
We need our politicians to work together for the good of our country. Investing in education, infrastructure, healthcare, and the local community builds a strong country. Government has only become the problem because our politicians have forgotten that they represent "we the people" not Grover Norquist or the Koch brothers.
We've been at war for nearly two decades. Not every American can serve their country as a soldier but we can and should pay taxes to pay for that war. FDR paid for WWII using taxes and war bonds. Eisenhower used those higher taxes after the war on infrastructure making us the envy of the world.
We need our politicians to work together for the good of our country. Investing in education, infrastructure, healthcare, and the local community builds a strong country. Government has only become the problem because our politicians have forgotten that they represent "we the people" not Grover Norquist or the Koch brothers.
1103
I could not agree more with your first sentence. However, I have a small quibble--while tax receipts are essential for the provision of state services, they do not constrain spending at the federal level (no matter what we are told, and how frequently, by politicians who find it convenient to confuse budget issues). A sovereign government issuing its own currency can afford to take care of its people. Period. Unfortunately, as a result of purely political decisions, we are seeing warmaking get a free hand while essential benefits, like health care, are denied out of a phony concern for our absolutely benign public debt.
10
The military industrial complex or as some call it "Empire builder" needs to have an re adjustment. Dwight Eisenhower warned about that power and keeping control of it in the early 50's but we did not heed that warnings.
We have now been at war in Middle East for 16 years and democracy was not brought to Iraq or Afghanistan but total chaos to the region. Our weaponry industries and private military mercenaries have and continue to make fortunes and their families live here at home in gated communities.
When will it stop, it gets a little better and then it goes back into chaos.
So what would you do if Mexico started killing your sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles, cousins and friends; and you did not have the military might to protect yourself?
We have now been at war in Middle East for 16 years and democracy was not brought to Iraq or Afghanistan but total chaos to the region. Our weaponry industries and private military mercenaries have and continue to make fortunes and their families live here at home in gated communities.
When will it stop, it gets a little better and then it goes back into chaos.
So what would you do if Mexico started killing your sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles, cousins and friends; and you did not have the military might to protect yourself?
1
Elsewhere in today's NYT, there is a discussion as to whether Trump is an "idiot", "imbecile" or "moron". As for Grover Norquist and his disciples, "stupid" may be appropriate description.
Oh that trickle down dirty deception
Deserves boot-in-the-rear reception
Pure bunkum, pure blather
So rich folk can gather
The fruits of a tax cut inception!
Deserves boot-in-the-rear reception
Pure bunkum, pure blather
So rich folk can gather
The fruits of a tax cut inception!
143
Larry,
Taxes are a wonderful thing.
A subject fit for a King.
The idea, to get things done.
Was started a long time ago.
A much simpler idea then.
A wall, a road a well, things people knew well.
What would the Urukians say.
Of taxes in our world today?
Would they understand people paid
For sheep they didn't raise, for grain they didn't grow?
Would they understand taxes on air?
That would be something to hear.
Taxes to change things today, tomorrow a different way.
Would they understand, or move to a different land?
This the Romans saw, they made it against the law.
To taxes there is no end though Marx offers hope again.
Taxes are a wonderful thing.
A subject fit for a King.
The idea, to get things done.
Was started a long time ago.
A much simpler idea then.
A wall, a road a well, things people knew well.
What would the Urukians say.
Of taxes in our world today?
Would they understand people paid
For sheep they didn't raise, for grain they didn't grow?
Would they understand taxes on air?
That would be something to hear.
Taxes to change things today, tomorrow a different way.
Would they understand, or move to a different land?
This the Romans saw, they made it against the law.
To taxes there is no end though Marx offers hope again.
2
The effectiveness of supply side economics, or trickle down, is a matter that is as divisive among economists as gun control is among the public. Liberal economists say the Reagan cuts didn't work and certain particular empirical evidence has put the issue to rest. Conservative economists mostly dispute that view and argue that tax cuts do spur economic growth. This is the kind of issue -- high stakes and highly polarized -- where online commentary is deeply divided and statistics are selectively used to prove one side or the other. There are statistics that show Kansas has done well by the tax cuts and there are other statistics that show that Kansas's growth rate has been a disaster. I can't pretend to resolve what sophisticated economists are arguing. But, keeping it simple, and avoiding tainted sources, I thought it was revealing that Kansas was 27th in per capita GDP when Brownback started his tax cuts and remains 27th today. Per capita GDP is as good an indicator of economic growth as any other single statistic. It suggests -- but doesn't prove -- that Kansas is muddling along like the rest of us and that Brownback's tax cuts -- which have been quite destructive -- are little better or little worse than more moderate measures taken by most of the rest of the states.
50
There isn't a moderate middle ground on supply-side economics.
The underlying program is to reduce public spending and leave more money in private hands. Is that in the public interest? Often not.
There are public health initiatives that we should be funding but are not funding. Money spent on those initiatives not only improves public health, but also reduces the overall expenditure on treatments and supplies for the targeted conditions. That's a real cost savings.
If we don't adequately fund public health (and likewise, infrastructure maintenance and education), we won't have a healthy population that can work productively.
Second, the rank of a state based on its GDP is not a revealing index. It masks the issue. Lower GDP growth is real. But if Kansas stayed in the same position relative to other states, either Kansas had some slop in the bracket and failed to pass either of its neighbors in the ranking, or the neighbors fluctuated similarly. Even GDP, as a summary measure, does not make it easy to home in on the effects.
Finally, when you say that Brownback's tax cuts have been quite destructive, why not stop there? Why wrap that assertion in an extended case for uncertainty? The claimed uncertainty is obfuscation. Actually, supply side measures take from the public. Who is affected by the destructive nature of the tax cuts? Those are the people who need remedies. Claiming a false neutrality only delays the remedy.
The underlying program is to reduce public spending and leave more money in private hands. Is that in the public interest? Often not.
There are public health initiatives that we should be funding but are not funding. Money spent on those initiatives not only improves public health, but also reduces the overall expenditure on treatments and supplies for the targeted conditions. That's a real cost savings.
If we don't adequately fund public health (and likewise, infrastructure maintenance and education), we won't have a healthy population that can work productively.
Second, the rank of a state based on its GDP is not a revealing index. It masks the issue. Lower GDP growth is real. But if Kansas stayed in the same position relative to other states, either Kansas had some slop in the bracket and failed to pass either of its neighbors in the ranking, or the neighbors fluctuated similarly. Even GDP, as a summary measure, does not make it easy to home in on the effects.
Finally, when you say that Brownback's tax cuts have been quite destructive, why not stop there? Why wrap that assertion in an extended case for uncertainty? The claimed uncertainty is obfuscation. Actually, supply side measures take from the public. Who is affected by the destructive nature of the tax cuts? Those are the people who need remedies. Claiming a false neutrality only delays the remedy.
77
Could you have possibly sat on the fence any better than this? Arguing out of both sides of your mouth? The tax cuts were destructive - well, except maybe not. This kind of false equivalency -- lending any merit whatsoever to the fantasy that is "supply-side" economics -- is why Kansas is in such dire straits. It's not "liberal" economists who say it doesn't work, it's all but the handful of supply side zealots and tax-cutting apologists for the wealthy who say it doesn't work. And the sooner the voting public grasps that fact, and the simple truth that you need to pay taxes to get the services this country needs, the better off America will be.
Pay taxes and you'll have roads, bridges, airports and rail that will once again be the envy of the world. Pay taxes and not only will a college education will be affordable, but elementary and high school currucula will and outcomes will improve. Pay taxes and you can fight the opioid crisis and return a segment of society to employability. You're taxes are NOT too damn high! Your parents, grandparents and great-grandparents all paid higher nominal rates, society was more equal, and our economy, infrastructure, and general well-being were the envy of the world. And why the Democratic party leadership cannot grasp that message and deliver it to the public every day continues to amaze me.
Pay taxes and you'll have roads, bridges, airports and rail that will once again be the envy of the world. Pay taxes and not only will a college education will be affordable, but elementary and high school currucula will and outcomes will improve. Pay taxes and you can fight the opioid crisis and return a segment of society to employability. You're taxes are NOT too damn high! Your parents, grandparents and great-grandparents all paid higher nominal rates, society was more equal, and our economy, infrastructure, and general well-being were the envy of the world. And why the Democratic party leadership cannot grasp that message and deliver it to the public every day continues to amaze me.
400
Don't let anyone tear you down for trying to approach an issue from the middle. Being an ideologue is easy, approaching an issue with your intellect open and considering all sides and that your original presuppositions should be malleable is a much more humbling and difficult task.
I don't agree with many of the things you said here personally but I applaud you heartily for doing it with the humility of not assuming you know the right answer before you form your opinion. It's how I operate and how I try and evangelize others to do the same.
I don't agree with many of the things you said here personally but I applaud you heartily for doing it with the humility of not assuming you know the right answer before you form your opinion. It's how I operate and how I try and evangelize others to do the same.
3