None of the schools cited are worth serious academic consideration. No wonder they need to offer an incentive.
I beg to differ. Just because you might not have heard of them doesn't mean they're not terrific schools. Loren Pope identified them as Colleges That Change Lives.
What doesn't get as much coverage in the Times is that there is a surplus of highly qualified PhDs graduating every year competing for scant jobs. There is a trickle down effect of talent migrating to schools in geographically less desirable areas. If "academic consideration" were truly the main draw for students, then they could hardly do better than at Hampshire, Lawrence, etc. Their level of rigor and quality of faculty probably exceed those of nationally-known universities in NYC, Boston, DC who don't have to compete for students. As a result, they give lousy aid.
What doesn't get as much coverage in the Times is that there is a surplus of highly qualified PhDs graduating every year competing for scant jobs. There is a trickle down effect of talent migrating to schools in geographically less desirable areas. If "academic consideration" were truly the main draw for students, then they could hardly do better than at Hampshire, Lawrence, etc. Their level of rigor and quality of faculty probably exceed those of nationally-known universities in NYC, Boston, DC who don't have to compete for students. As a result, they give lousy aid.
Our upper middle class family did not expect to receive any aid, and while our expected family contribution exceeded total cost for one year, many colleges offered merit aid which was anywhere from 25% to 75% off tuition.
Grads of many of these colleges are making less than HS grads 10 years out; students are starting to figure this out. Meanwhile, easy credit, government support etc hasn't encouraged these schools to stay lean financially so they still need the $50-60 k tuitions to stay afloat. This could lead to 2 results: 1. A new financial crisis involving student loan defaults; 2. Widespread closures of these schools.
1
There's nothing unethical about this. In fact, this kind of late negotiation for students with discounts dangled might be first step towards righting the marketplace for college. Why spend $70,000 for college per year at a marquee college when you can spend $25,000 per year at your state school or $40,000 per year at an out-of-state state school or discounted "second tier" school. How come room and board is $17,000 at some schools and $11,000 at others? Any kid who has the chops to make it at a top-twenty school will do just as well in life after attending a top-sixty school.
Not only that, the schools that have managed to keep their costs down by virtue of their location/culture/structure/endowment/public or corporate support will soon be (and perhaps are) attracting the best students.
Go to the national center for education statistics, do a search for schools with a 25 percentile SAT score about 100 points lower than what your child has, then limit by cost. Then look at the kiplinger's website and check out which schools give non-merit based aid, and how much. If you triangulate these, you'll get a good sense of which schools are in the habit of giving discounts for talent. Go get a discount!
Not only that, the schools that have managed to keep their costs down by virtue of their location/culture/structure/endowment/public or corporate support will soon be (and perhaps are) attracting the best students.
Go to the national center for education statistics, do a search for schools with a 25 percentile SAT score about 100 points lower than what your child has, then limit by cost. Then look at the kiplinger's website and check out which schools give non-merit based aid, and how much. If you triangulate these, you'll get a good sense of which schools are in the habit of giving discounts for talent. Go get a discount!
1
“Talking about the affordability piece with the student in the room, that was never done much until five years ago..."
Why not? I was flabbergasted. This kind of attitude is EXACTLY why this country has such ballooning student debt issue in the first place. Yes, we keep telling teenagers to "follow their dreams," we keep telling them everything will work out in the end, no matter the costs. Let's be honest upfront, not everyone will have everything work out in the end, PLENTY of people got themselves stuck with tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans that they might ever get out of (not even with bankruptcy. And this all started when they pick schools, how much it costs, and where the funding would come from. Sure, it's stressful. OF COURSE it's stressful. There's a name for it, it's called "it's life."
So, rather than trying to shield the teenagers from money worries, we as parents and as society better serve by involving them early, to make them aware of the money calculation because they NEED to know.
And if colleges are to dangle funding in front of them as a means of poaching, I'd say, hallelujah. Why is it a bad thing? I don't see it that way at all.
Why not? I was flabbergasted. This kind of attitude is EXACTLY why this country has such ballooning student debt issue in the first place. Yes, we keep telling teenagers to "follow their dreams," we keep telling them everything will work out in the end, no matter the costs. Let's be honest upfront, not everyone will have everything work out in the end, PLENTY of people got themselves stuck with tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loans that they might ever get out of (not even with bankruptcy. And this all started when they pick schools, how much it costs, and where the funding would come from. Sure, it's stressful. OF COURSE it's stressful. There's a name for it, it's called "it's life."
So, rather than trying to shield the teenagers from money worries, we as parents and as society better serve by involving them early, to make them aware of the money calculation because they NEED to know.
And if colleges are to dangle funding in front of them as a means of poaching, I'd say, hallelujah. Why is it a bad thing? I don't see it that way at all.
3
Just opt out of the game and the hype. It's so freeing.
I'm in the thick of this--one child currently attends Texas A&M and the other, although accepted to Texas A&M, chose to accept the offer of a very generous scholarship from Texas Tech and is headed off to Lubbock in a couple of months.
Not one dollar will be borrowed by either child or me and my husband to pay for their college. They will graduate debt-free and neither has to work during college.
The older one has a great (and paid) internship, too. What a surprise: no Ivy League or expensive private school was needed.
College applications were a breeze because we refused to buy into the hype about "prestigious" schools. I feel so sad for the people who get suckered and allow either themselves or their children to take on debt just to pay for a college's name.
Just opt out.
I'm in the thick of this--one child currently attends Texas A&M and the other, although accepted to Texas A&M, chose to accept the offer of a very generous scholarship from Texas Tech and is headed off to Lubbock in a couple of months.
Not one dollar will be borrowed by either child or me and my husband to pay for their college. They will graduate debt-free and neither has to work during college.
The older one has a great (and paid) internship, too. What a surprise: no Ivy League or expensive private school was needed.
College applications were a breeze because we refused to buy into the hype about "prestigious" schools. I feel so sad for the people who get suckered and allow either themselves or their children to take on debt just to pay for a college's name.
Just opt out.
3
what these schools did is NOT unethical, why? the schools "shape" their classes all the time. Worse I'd ever heard was a school-guy saying it is all about "heads-in-beds" the students are all just numbers to these people.
Shop these school, play them off each other, get the best value you can and if at all possible debt free.
Schools see students as nothing more than $ signs; and thanks to 45 international kids are now looking elsewhere. schools will go under there are too many of them and not enough students.
NYT unethical is the way schools are allowed to lie or hide the facts, not the fact that they are competing for "heads-in-beds".
Shop these school, play them off each other, get the best value you can and if at all possible debt free.
Schools see students as nothing more than $ signs; and thanks to 45 international kids are now looking elsewhere. schools will go under there are too many of them and not enough students.
NYT unethical is the way schools are allowed to lie or hide the facts, not the fact that they are competing for "heads-in-beds".
1
Attend a good state school. Here in my state that might be the University of Washington. Tops in many categories. Don't put yourself in unmanageable post graduate debt, and certainly don't put your parents retirement assets into question. I can't tell you how many graduates I know deeply in debt. Believe me, Amazon and Microsoft among other top employers will be happy to have you with a state college BA. After a few years you will see that that an Ivy League education just wasn't worth the expense. College is a business whether it be Harvard or your local state university. Just my opinion.
4
That is so much easier said then done and it is just such a tiresome "solution". Placement in state schools is highly competitive (and rightly so) but for a lot of people it is simply not an option to wait until a spot is finally offered.
2
It's hard for me to see what's wrong with this. Colleges and universities have long run the show with rules designed for their benefit. This evolution is a sort of supply and demand thing spawned by the increased difficulty of controlling information in our new world.
Although May 1st is simply a date, it is a very important date for young high school students applying to colleges. It is the deadline for their decision. By soliciting students who should have made their decision already, these schools are making students revisit decisions that they already made. With the pressure to decide whether to stick with the school they have chosen or another school made more affordable by discounts, these students and parents can make choices that they may regret.
This system of presenting a full price and then a discounted price to students that don’t show enough interest simply seems like a ploy to earn money. Colleges get the full price from students willing and able to afford the extravagant prices colleges ask while luring in more students and thus more revenue with discount labels. By getting students who have committed to pay the full amount and students who are willing to come to the school at a discounted amount, these schools extract the most value possible by anticipating and reacting to people’s willingness to pay.
This system of presenting a full price and then a discounted price to students that don’t show enough interest simply seems like a ploy to earn money. Colleges get the full price from students willing and able to afford the extravagant prices colleges ask while luring in more students and thus more revenue with discount labels. By getting students who have committed to pay the full amount and students who are willing to come to the school at a discounted amount, these schools extract the most value possible by anticipating and reacting to people’s willingness to pay.
Why doesn't the 'rules' not to compete for students by NACAC violate federal anti-trust law? Agreements between businesses to reduce competition are a detriment to free market capitalism, and might explain why these institutions are able to charge so much money.
The people trying to skirt competition should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
The people trying to skirt competition should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
2
I think the key question here is to determine whether higher education should be treated like a business, or as a public service. While competition is mostly a good thing, practices like these can turn making a college decision into a sales negotiation. Public universities should not be allowed to do this, but private colleges, I think, should have the freedom to make these sorts of offers.
More evidence of a dysfunctional college education system, most of the issues come from way too free loans for college allowing them to charge more and to not move to internet based education which would be much cheaper. Especially bad is those liberal arts schools that should be out of business.
1
A college's posted tuition rate is like the "rack rate" at a hotel: expensive but most customers pay far less. Beyond the "rack tuition rate," colleges should disclose the tuition discount rate to all applicants. And what if colleges auctioned 5-10% of their student slots to the highest bidder - with the excess over the posted tuition rate applied to fund scholarships for students with financial needs?
1
I think schools need to ask, if a student has not responded it might be because they did not feel they could send the deposit if they did not know they could get the whole amount together. If they had sad "No" it is one thing, but if they leave it open it is something else.
That said it seems like this will just encourage students to not give a firm answer and it seems like a bad policy. This sort of message should be very selectively sent.
That said it seems like this will just encourage students to not give a firm answer and it seems like a bad policy. This sort of message should be very selectively sent.
I remember my school's acceptance rate exceeded estimates by almost double my first year. Meaning, they expected 30% of students to accept and 60% ended up coming. Just like an airplane, the school intentionally overbooked and found themselves playing musical chairs with class enrollment. We find ourselves in the reverse situation here.
Both situations are traumatic to students and family. I didn't enjoy my application process at all. However, I'd far rather suffer a school bidding my attendance than fight classmates for a tenure professor that can speak passable English. Drop outs and specialization eventually thinned things out but the first year or so was rough. Some dorm room students were stacked 12 to a room in converted lounges. The communal shower situation wasn't pretty either. You might be anxious now but trust me: You're on the winning side of a bad equation.
You should have been weighing the pros and cons of all schools applied anyway. Missing a first choice is emotional but you shouldn't find yourself in a dramatically different academic setting as a result. The shock of late renegotiation should be almost entirely financial. Is the school much better or significantly cheaper? If not, why stress? Besides, cost of living is the most expensive part of college anyway. If you don't have paid room and board somewhere, you're going to take a big hit regardless.
Good luck.
Both situations are traumatic to students and family. I didn't enjoy my application process at all. However, I'd far rather suffer a school bidding my attendance than fight classmates for a tenure professor that can speak passable English. Drop outs and specialization eventually thinned things out but the first year or so was rough. Some dorm room students were stacked 12 to a room in converted lounges. The communal shower situation wasn't pretty either. You might be anxious now but trust me: You're on the winning side of a bad equation.
You should have been weighing the pros and cons of all schools applied anyway. Missing a first choice is emotional but you shouldn't find yourself in a dramatically different academic setting as a result. The shock of late renegotiation should be almost entirely financial. Is the school much better or significantly cheaper? If not, why stress? Besides, cost of living is the most expensive part of college anyway. If you don't have paid room and board somewhere, you're going to take a big hit regardless.
Good luck.
Voting is a LOT easier than filling out loan applications.
Go to a good state school.
If your state doesn't have a great school, you are electing the wrong legislators.
VOTE.
If your state doesn't have a great school, you are electing the wrong legislators.
VOTE.
2
School administrations eat the biggest portion of the educational pie.
4
Student debt is so monumental today ($1.3 Trillion) that the US govt is considering moving the management of this debt to the Treasury Dept from Education. How do we curb this debt?
We mitigate the debt by eliminating all the soft perks that schools offer for your attendance. After all, we go for the education. Social extras, personal amenities, activities not for the direct improvement of one's learning/educational experience are eliminated. We, as such, erase all the distractions from the learning process. We create an atmosphere more like a job, not a party. Getting an advanced degree is a job and should be treated as such. My son is getting a JD currently. He goes to school in the early day and either attends classes or studies until 5:30/6 M-F. He is working at his educational job. Grades are good, his time is used efficiently, and he plays after 6. Weekends are mostly free.
We mitigate the debt by eliminating all the soft perks that schools offer for your attendance. After all, we go for the education. Social extras, personal amenities, activities not for the direct improvement of one's learning/educational experience are eliminated. We, as such, erase all the distractions from the learning process. We create an atmosphere more like a job, not a party. Getting an advanced degree is a job and should be treated as such. My son is getting a JD currently. He goes to school in the early day and either attends classes or studies until 5:30/6 M-F. He is working at his educational job. Grades are good, his time is used efficiently, and he plays after 6. Weekends are mostly free.
1
Who benefits?
37 years ago, a head-hunter invited me to solve a training problem that was costing a client millions. It had a successful product but knew it'd be obsolete in 1 year so it ramped up production to make as much as it could before the market window closed and the product became worthless. Meanwhile, material & lost-opportunity costs due to the high % of defective circuit boards that the low paid technicians were unable to diagnose increased because they lacked microprocessor system skills & resources. [uP training wasn't then available.] But technicians were technicians and the company expected results so it provided training in name only. Meanwhile, it kept hiring techs from proprietary schools hoping for success. Those schools cost aspiring techs $1,000 a month for ten months before they got a chance to show what they learned -- and were laid off at three months.
The company had 34 technicians and was still seeking.
It took me 3 months to identify the deficiencies and develop a learner-driven course that solved the problem. The next problem appeared when an aspiring technician got a hold of a copy of what I wrote and asked to work for free just for the experience. He had to be turned away because all the backlog of "unrepairable" circuit boards was gone. Naturally, the company laid off most of the technicians (which it later needed) and pocketed the savings.
So, what was the value of that high-priced education? and to whom?
Those that can, do.,,
37 years ago, a head-hunter invited me to solve a training problem that was costing a client millions. It had a successful product but knew it'd be obsolete in 1 year so it ramped up production to make as much as it could before the market window closed and the product became worthless. Meanwhile, material & lost-opportunity costs due to the high % of defective circuit boards that the low paid technicians were unable to diagnose increased because they lacked microprocessor system skills & resources. [uP training wasn't then available.] But technicians were technicians and the company expected results so it provided training in name only. Meanwhile, it kept hiring techs from proprietary schools hoping for success. Those schools cost aspiring techs $1,000 a month for ten months before they got a chance to show what they learned -- and were laid off at three months.
The company had 34 technicians and was still seeking.
It took me 3 months to identify the deficiencies and develop a learner-driven course that solved the problem. The next problem appeared when an aspiring technician got a hold of a copy of what I wrote and asked to work for free just for the experience. He had to be turned away because all the backlog of "unrepairable" circuit boards was gone. Naturally, the company laid off most of the technicians (which it later needed) and pocketed the savings.
So, what was the value of that high-priced education? and to whom?
Those that can, do.,,
Great article. We just went through the college selection process for our first son. Fortunately, we started the conversation with our kids three years ago that money will be a factor in the decision. We had dutifully saved as much as we could on my startup salary. But we hit a few bumps in the road along the way where my wife didn't work for several years and that impacted our savings to be sure. Our prior prior was a great year for us, but then my wife stopped working to care for her sick mom. So I knew financial aid would be a challenge.
My son was accepted to six of the eight schools he applied to (which I was thrilled about) including his two less expensive options. For him, it came down to two schools: one inexpensive (and highly rated) and one of the $70K year options (also highly rated). On our first go round, we received $0 in financial aid from the expensive school, which would have meant we could potentially hit a crisis in 1.5-2 years. So we appealed. They offered $0 and made it clear they didn't see that changing going forward. So my son accepted the offer at his other top choice which will cost us less than $30K per year.
I say negotiate away! This idea that every $70K per year school is worth that much money is absurd. Only a handful will be worth it. Otherwise, go to a less expensive option and leave with less (or no) debt.
My son was accepted to six of the eight schools he applied to (which I was thrilled about) including his two less expensive options. For him, it came down to two schools: one inexpensive (and highly rated) and one of the $70K year options (also highly rated). On our first go round, we received $0 in financial aid from the expensive school, which would have meant we could potentially hit a crisis in 1.5-2 years. So we appealed. They offered $0 and made it clear they didn't see that changing going forward. So my son accepted the offer at his other top choice which will cost us less than $30K per year.
I say negotiate away! This idea that every $70K per year school is worth that much money is absurd. Only a handful will be worth it. Otherwise, go to a less expensive option and leave with less (or no) debt.
6
As a Hampshire College alum and parent of a current Hampshire student I take exception to this article shedding a negative light on the college.
The commenters who pejoratively implied that Hampshire is a middle-market, lower tier desperate institution demonstrate that they know nothing about the college.
Hampshire cannot be a middle-market, lower tier college when they are currently not ranked. When the institution stopped looking at optional standardized test scores in 2014 they ceased to be ranked. Hampshire is fine with that. The pedagogical structure of the college is so unique amongst institutions of higher learning that to rank it would be pigeonholing; this is something that cannot be done with Hampshire. Despite one's opinion of liberal arts colleges in general, Hampshire is an excellent small liberal arts college with a proven track record.
If an accepted student neglected to notify Hampshire of their intention not to attend the college by May 1st that is irresponsible on the student's part. If that prospective student put a deposit down on another college because said college offered them a better financial package affording them a chance to go there that is clearly understandable. However, if Hampshire was that student's first choice, but they had to forfeit the college's acceptance offer due to money, and Hampshire came back to them not out of desperation, but having not heard from them, and sweetened the pot, that is not unethical--that is business.
The commenters who pejoratively implied that Hampshire is a middle-market, lower tier desperate institution demonstrate that they know nothing about the college.
Hampshire cannot be a middle-market, lower tier college when they are currently not ranked. When the institution stopped looking at optional standardized test scores in 2014 they ceased to be ranked. Hampshire is fine with that. The pedagogical structure of the college is so unique amongst institutions of higher learning that to rank it would be pigeonholing; this is something that cannot be done with Hampshire. Despite one's opinion of liberal arts colleges in general, Hampshire is an excellent small liberal arts college with a proven track record.
If an accepted student neglected to notify Hampshire of their intention not to attend the college by May 1st that is irresponsible on the student's part. If that prospective student put a deposit down on another college because said college offered them a better financial package affording them a chance to go there that is clearly understandable. However, if Hampshire was that student's first choice, but they had to forfeit the college's acceptance offer due to money, and Hampshire came back to them not out of desperation, but having not heard from them, and sweetened the pot, that is not unethical--that is business.
4
I also am an Hampshire alum,, who attended in the 1980s. My spouse also graduated from Hampshire, something that we often compare notes on, as we go through the subsequent decades.
Hampshire provided a unique level of skill in the methods of inquiry, investigation, observation, and analysis. In my professional career, i have often been complemented, in my ability to observe patterns or insights that others have missed. My spouse has often had similar experiences. We credit the Hampshire education, with this gift.
Both of us also completed graduate degrees . Graduate school gives you the facility to land on your feet again, when laid off from your job during a downsizing. For me, both were essential.
However my primary point was attending Hampshire was worth it, for both of us.
(And both of us didn't qualify for financial aid, because the mortgages on our families' homes were paid off. This was before Home Equity loans were commonplace..Paying the full tuition was not at all easy for my family, but it happened, with the assistance of student loans.)
Hampshire provided a unique level of skill in the methods of inquiry, investigation, observation, and analysis. In my professional career, i have often been complemented, in my ability to observe patterns or insights that others have missed. My spouse has often had similar experiences. We credit the Hampshire education, with this gift.
Both of us also completed graduate degrees . Graduate school gives you the facility to land on your feet again, when laid off from your job during a downsizing. For me, both were essential.
However my primary point was attending Hampshire was worth it, for both of us.
(And both of us didn't qualify for financial aid, because the mortgages on our families' homes were paid off. This was before Home Equity loans were commonplace..Paying the full tuition was not at all easy for my family, but it happened, with the assistance of student loans.)
A friend recommended I read this article because she said there was mention of a facebook group about helping parents understand how to pay for college. I don't see any reference to that? My child's high school provides so little help on this topic, any additional information would be great. I'm not in the position to hire someone to work with us, but we need help figuring all this financial aid out. It's really a maze.
1
Click on the link to the "Road2college" group in the article--when you click on that link, their site contains a link to the FB group.
I was surprised how small the college deposits are -- roughly one-third of what my kids' private high schools charged. A small enough number ($500 or so) that many family put down double deposits....and small enough that it encourages this kind of marketing by colleges looking to up their enrollment.
How is rule II.A.2 of that NACAC document not considered a restraint on trade, or collusion - or whatever the proper legal term is for trying to establish a monopoly?
4
Good question. Anyone know the answer?
Interesting in the context of the financial aid anti-trust conversations from 25 years ago.
Interesting in the context of the financial aid anti-trust conversations from 25 years ago.
This helps confirm what I've suspected for years: There are too many colleges, especially small liberals arts colleges. I'm not against the liberal arts--it's just that we have glut of these small colleges and not enough students to fill them.
I don't know how so many of them survive...
I don't know how so many of them survive...
7
Students (or their parents realistically) should negotiate with the college on financial aid from the date of the admission notification. It works sometimes.
How do I know? I have known of cases where it did. Usually the institution will propose that there might be additional data that the student can provide that might justify additional assistance if there really is any possibility of raising the offer. Most often, that just amounts to pointing out things that the financial aid application already included, but in a somewhat different light. If a parent has had a financial setback since the filing, that can make a difference.
Why should students NOT negotiate? People negotiate with employers all the time. It is perfectly right for a student to say, "I want to attend XXXXX, but I need Y more assistance to do so."
How do I know? I have known of cases where it did. Usually the institution will propose that there might be additional data that the student can provide that might justify additional assistance if there really is any possibility of raising the offer. Most often, that just amounts to pointing out things that the financial aid application already included, but in a somewhat different light. If a parent has had a financial setback since the filing, that can make a difference.
Why should students NOT negotiate? People negotiate with employers all the time. It is perfectly right for a student to say, "I want to attend XXXXX, but I need Y more assistance to do so."
2
Yes, at private schools parents should negotiate, particularly if their child has award letters offering more money from comparable colleges and also if the student is at the top or above academically compared to other students at the school. This worked for me with two children. It was an uncomfortable process for me, but well worth it.
2
I recently went through the college application process with my daughter, a top student with high test scores (but not a National Merit Scholar). Overall, it seemed like a very impersonal experience, with the schools juggling an exponentially increasing number of applicants. We are a middle class family that didn't quality for financial aid, so we looked for merit scholarships at schools ranking approximately 40-75 in the USNWR guide. The results: tuition discounts from 18-25K. Generally, most of these colleges were about 10K out of reach. Appeals, at least officially, were to be made when you could prove a change in financial circumstances, which did not apply to our situation. There was no support from admissions counselors, who are by design not involved in the financial aspects of admission. The students at my daughter's very affluent high school who are actually attending some of these schools have far lower stats than she has. She would have represented the top 10% of applicants, but we didn't see any aggressive recruiting. My general take-away: It's all about the money. As Tom Cruise quips in Risky Business, "Looks like the University of Ilinois!" - a highly ranked bargain in comparison, although not the best fit for my daughter.
4
Many of the colleges on the list of schools with openings are state institutions with no hard and fast enrollment limits and with rolling admissions up to a date in the summer. Some of them are "open admissions," or "non-competitive" institutions.
1
Protocol? what protocol?
This is capitalism at work. Are we anti-capitalistic?
The student now must make sure the education is still of the quality they want.
We must reduce frills and just educate. All the add-ons cost money. Personally, the education is #1, the extras cost me money.
This is capitalism at work. Are we anti-capitalistic?
The student now must make sure the education is still of the quality they want.
We must reduce frills and just educate. All the add-ons cost money. Personally, the education is #1, the extras cost me money.
1
College is associated with status not education. When we make college transparent and about education, these perversions will disappear.
3
Hate to say it, but it sounds to me like you're probably only going to get what you're asking for at community colleges. No frills; it's only about education. Sure, it would be great if society stopped seeking bragging rights associated with the school Junior is attending, but we all know that will never happen.
Those giant stadiums? You're paying for that. I'd rather see that money spent on better professors & modern equipment that might help produce more highly marketable students.
My opinion? Everybody should put their ego on the shelf & make the best choice for their student that also equals what they can afford. I've never read a financial planning article that says you should place your children's education above your retirement.
Those giant stadiums? You're paying for that. I'd rather see that money spent on better professors & modern equipment that might help produce more highly marketable students.
My opinion? Everybody should put their ego on the shelf & make the best choice for their student that also equals what they can afford. I've never read a financial planning article that says you should place your children's education above your retirement.
1
This is the new normal. As the population grows and resources dwindle, every form of corruption will flourish. Expect more lying, cheating, and stealing. Bribes and kickbacks will become the norm. And universities will lead the decline to dystopia.
5
it is critical for a student to select the college that is the best fit for those criteria that have been established to reflect his/her values. Once it is shown that there is a truly good fit, in all probability, the chosen college will work diligently to make that choice a viable one from a financial standpoint.
I am hopeful that each student has a fairly recent Fiske Guide to Colleges, as this is the sole college reference book worth using.
I am hopeful that each student has a fairly recent Fiske Guide to Colleges, as this is the sole college reference book worth using.
2
Hard to know what's more disturbing:
A) Double-speak phrases like "excess capacity" (meaning "not enough students"?) by college admissions types;
B) Colleges blatantly trying to entice students with "have we got a (better) deal for you!" financial offers;
C) Some guy from a national college association (Nacac) claiming that he "does not believe such outreach violates the letter or spirit" of their rules (sounds like lawyer-speak!) and coming up with some self-serving sophistic rationale about "better serving" students by playing fast-and-loose with the rules;
D) The proliferation of for-profit college admissions "services" as expert commentators on admissions and aid (an almost embedded advertisement!);
E) ALL of the above
College have lost their way, ethically, in pursuit of more students and more money, and have adopted the most amoral (immoral) of ""business' practices in doing so. Any wonder they're no longer viewed as trustworthy or reliable arbiters of mortality of advice on anything?
A) Double-speak phrases like "excess capacity" (meaning "not enough students"?) by college admissions types;
B) Colleges blatantly trying to entice students with "have we got a (better) deal for you!" financial offers;
C) Some guy from a national college association (Nacac) claiming that he "does not believe such outreach violates the letter or spirit" of their rules (sounds like lawyer-speak!) and coming up with some self-serving sophistic rationale about "better serving" students by playing fast-and-loose with the rules;
D) The proliferation of for-profit college admissions "services" as expert commentators on admissions and aid (an almost embedded advertisement!);
E) ALL of the above
College have lost their way, ethically, in pursuit of more students and more money, and have adopted the most amoral (immoral) of ""business' practices in doing so. Any wonder they're no longer viewed as trustworthy or reliable arbiters of mortality of advice on anything?
7
Now we see the shift from “student as trainee to be educated” to “student as high ability performer”, rather like in pro sports.
This recognizes that colleges do not necessarily add value to the student as much as the student adds value to the college. How?
o Creative and inquisitive “students” ( is it better to consider them expert reviewers?) question everything a prof tells them, requiring greater rigor from the prof. This is outside of the normal pier groups for the profs. giving a different perspective. (Nobel winner Richard Feynman once said that you don't understand anything until you can teach it to Freshmen)
o The creation of a student body and culture that attracts top students and professors in the same way that a winning NBA team attracts free agents.
Over time, top students will be paid to attend college, and have the choice of working at a top company right out or high school (NBA style) with a big professional salary. My city, (Denver) with a 2.3 % unemployment rate despite a huge influx of millennial, could be the bellwether.
This recognizes that colleges do not necessarily add value to the student as much as the student adds value to the college. How?
o Creative and inquisitive “students” ( is it better to consider them expert reviewers?) question everything a prof tells them, requiring greater rigor from the prof. This is outside of the normal pier groups for the profs. giving a different perspective. (Nobel winner Richard Feynman once said that you don't understand anything until you can teach it to Freshmen)
o The creation of a student body and culture that attracts top students and professors in the same way that a winning NBA team attracts free agents.
Over time, top students will be paid to attend college, and have the choice of working at a top company right out or high school (NBA style) with a big professional salary. My city, (Denver) with a 2.3 % unemployment rate despite a huge influx of millennial, could be the bellwether.
1
Who does the Ursinas VP think he is fooling? 'We made our class but have "excess capacity" and want to give this opportunity to students.'
As someone who has worked in private higher education for 30 years, only desperate admissions officers under pressure to make their class resort to mining for students well after May 1. Did you not know you had all this additional financial aid to offer on April 20? Why not reach out to them then? Oh yeah, because on April 20 you might have spent some of that grant money on students who were going to enroll without the extra aid. So in reality, the students who committed to you on time get penalized because if they had waited you likely would have offered them more aid.
And then I wonder why people have gotten so cynical about the process.
As someone who has worked in private higher education for 30 years, only desperate admissions officers under pressure to make their class resort to mining for students well after May 1. Did you not know you had all this additional financial aid to offer on April 20? Why not reach out to them then? Oh yeah, because on April 20 you might have spent some of that grant money on students who were going to enroll without the extra aid. So in reality, the students who committed to you on time get penalized because if they had waited you likely would have offered them more aid.
And then I wonder why people have gotten so cynical about the process.
39
Colleges' refraining from negotiating with you is called "monopolistic restraints on trade." If Congress did not coddle colleges with protective legislation, it would also be called "an antitrust violation."
not true. colleges may not perhaps collude with other colleges in admitting students. not negotiating with you is not an ant-trust violation. if you threaten an admission officer with this malarkey you will be thrown out of his office on the spot.
not true. colleges may not perhaps collude with other colleges in admitting students. not negotiating with you is not an ant-trust violation. if you threaten an admission officer with this malarkey you will be thrown out of his office on the spot.
2
“The spirit is in how you best serve students, and if you’re giving a kid a chance to attend the school that has been a first choice all along, it’s very hard to see that as unethical.” I think this quote from NACAC says it all. College is incredibly costly, and parents and students feel ground down by the process. If they can get a better deal because the institution has extra spaces, or new FA dollars, why not? I know higher ed is under duress for sure (with the exception of the ultra-endowed elites), but in the end, the "fairness" should be about what the student and their families can reasonably afford.
2
I don't understand why anyone would send their kind to an expensive, small liberal arts college at full price. Why pay Harvard prices for something that is not Harvard?
Under no circumstances would I pay full price to send my kid to one of the schools listed here. If they don't get into a truly elite school, then they can go to a perfectly good public school.
Under no circumstances would I pay full price to send my kid to one of the schools listed here. If they don't get into a truly elite school, then they can go to a perfectly good public school.
12
The amount of venom aimed at American higher education is simply amazing. If you believe at higher education is a great waste of time and resources and that American colleges and universities are nothing but places of educational and financial scam, there is a simple answer: don't go or don't pay for your kids. With two century's worth of empirical data, one of the surest things in American society is that formal education attainment is the best predictor of where people end up in the labor market. One can point to one anecdote after another, but the sea tide of data is clear on this point. It's ironic that the brightest students around the world flock to American higher education for the high education quality they provide while growing number of Americans view the same system with such contempt and envy. Today, the thing that costs more than a college degree is not having one--just ask the U.S. Census office. With all this, for high school students and their parents, you should take college choice seriously and research your options critically and carefully. Middle class kids whose parents make $150,000 a year (and so get no need assistance) have no business going to $65,000 a year private university while working class kids with excellent GPAs and test scores with ambitions to become medical doctors should not start their education in community colleges with over-crowded classrooms and low quality instruction. Use the system to meet YOUR interest--that's why it's there.
17
Of course colleges should support low income kids. But why not support the middle income kids-- you don't have to be a genius to do the math on what 100,000 or 150000 minus 65000 will do to any household. And there are so many inequities in the way that the forms parse the aid numbers. What if the family had a long period of unemployment-- how do you calculate that fallout into the current situation? What if they must pay insurance out of pocket with after tax dollars? How old are the parents? There are so many factors that may not get considered, even at a "need blind" school.
1
Did you have to go to college to miss the point of this debate so badly? Nobody questions the value of a college education. The questions is, why do we allow the cost to continue to rise at such a rate that we actually do begin to question its cost/value benefit. Stop raising the cost, and the people who pay it will stop complaining. How about that?
This is how airline tickets and hotel rooms are sold. If a college or university has empty seats, then getting anything for them is infinitely better than getting nothing. So, if the book price tuition is say 50k, and the college is offering a 25k discount to a particular student they really want, and then it turns out they are going to have empty seats come Fall, why not go back and offer a bigger discount, say 35k. After all, would the school rather get 15k for the seat or nothing? Schools are really just hotels with football teams and books.
6
Or you could take my daughter's route and opt out of this insane system. She's choosing two years of community college where she can explore lots of different fields cheaply (nearly free in Oregon) before picking a four year school. The whole "dream school" issue assumes that a 17 year old with an incomplete frontal lobe actually knows what they want. Some do. A whole lot more don't and pick a college based on a great dining hall, a pretty campus, or where their friends are going. I'm grateful for a large urban community college where she has lots of fields to try out before picking a place to finish.
48
I agree completely. The community college system is far too underrated these days; it has improved significantly in the last 40 (or even 20!) years. I hope your daughter is on-board with this decision. The smartest choice, economically, is to have kids get a 2-yr degree at a community college & if they want, afterwards they can matriculate at a 4-yr school. Here in VA, we're fortunate to have a guaranteed admission agreement with all of the state colleges/universities; GPA matters, of course. Plenty of CC students graduate from prestigious schools like UVA & William & Mary via this route, proof that this system works.
3
"The messages all hinted at a particular question: Might a larger discount prompt you to come here after all?"
Under an administration that cared about fairness, the U.S. Department of Justice would be investigating the practice of offering discounted tuition at colleges and law schools.
Under the Clinton administration, an activist DOJ uncovered a number of violations of fair lending laws that had had a disproportionate adverse impact on minorities. In other words, people of color were getting screwed by banks' lending practices, resulting in a wave of consent decrees and civil money penalties against banks.
It is imperative to investigate tuition discounts for the same reasons, because there is a terrible risk that minorities and people from disadvantaged backgrounds aren't receiving the same kind of favorable treatment as whites when it comes to tuition concessions. They're unlikely to know how to game the system, unlike upper middle class families with their social capital and access to college admissions advisers.
Under an administration that cared about fairness, the U.S. Department of Justice would be investigating the practice of offering discounted tuition at colleges and law schools.
Under the Clinton administration, an activist DOJ uncovered a number of violations of fair lending laws that had had a disproportionate adverse impact on minorities. In other words, people of color were getting screwed by banks' lending practices, resulting in a wave of consent decrees and civil money penalties against banks.
It is imperative to investigate tuition discounts for the same reasons, because there is a terrible risk that minorities and people from disadvantaged backgrounds aren't receiving the same kind of favorable treatment as whites when it comes to tuition concessions. They're unlikely to know how to game the system, unlike upper middle class families with their social capital and access to college admissions advisers.
4
Students of the world: auction yourself off to the highest bidder! It's called the free market. Colleges' refraining from negotiating with you is called "monopolistic restraints on trade." If Congress did not coddle colleges with protective legislation, it would also be called "an antitrust violation."
We advised our two daughters not to fall in love with a particular school or be absurdly romantic about the college process. Romanticizing the process weakens the bargaining position of the family and strengthens the hand of the school. After all, statistics show that if you go to a decent accredited school, the outcomes are more or less the same regardless of where you go.
Our kids took our advice, auctioned themselves off, and it did not turn out badly at all. Both are successful home-owning professionals with no student debt and a perfectly adequate complement of warm college memories.
At the very very last minute one school offered one of our daughters a full scholarship which she turned down, having already "committed" to another school that also offered her a "full ride." I see nothing wrong with the last minute offer even though it blatantly violated every phoney baloney anti-competitive rule in the book. It gave our daughter a choice between two great schools. What on earth is the matter with that? And if she had broken the so-called "commitment" and gone with the last minute offer, that would have been perfectly ethical too.
We advised our two daughters not to fall in love with a particular school or be absurdly romantic about the college process. Romanticizing the process weakens the bargaining position of the family and strengthens the hand of the school. After all, statistics show that if you go to a decent accredited school, the outcomes are more or less the same regardless of where you go.
Our kids took our advice, auctioned themselves off, and it did not turn out badly at all. Both are successful home-owning professionals with no student debt and a perfectly adequate complement of warm college memories.
At the very very last minute one school offered one of our daughters a full scholarship which she turned down, having already "committed" to another school that also offered her a "full ride." I see nothing wrong with the last minute offer even though it blatantly violated every phoney baloney anti-competitive rule in the book. It gave our daughter a choice between two great schools. What on earth is the matter with that? And if she had broken the so-called "commitment" and gone with the last minute offer, that would have been perfectly ethical too.
14
I like this approach a lot, but amidst all of the madness that swirls around teens on this topic, it is really (really) hard as a parent to get them to take an emotionless approach here. How did you do that exactly?
4
Our kids also took the non romantic emotionless approach. They understand money. We explained that it is one's own effort and seeking out, and maximizing, resources that ultimately lead to a great education. In other words, any school can be good if you truly apply yourself. Both kids turned down the pricey acceptances and nice scholarships at private colleges for free rides at state schools. Both are well educated and have careers they enjoy. Why our society romanticizes college at all is strange to me.
Don't romanticize college, don't continually reinforce "her first choice", don't agree to pay more than x or x%.
I teach high school; teenagers are not equipped to make rational choices, especially with OPM (other people's money, i.e., parents.).
Nothing in the parent rule book says you owe your child college.
Sometimes i wonder if the name brand school is as much for parents to iess their friends.
I teach high school; teenagers are not equipped to make rational choices, especially with OPM (other people's money, i.e., parents.).
Nothing in the parent rule book says you owe your child college.
Sometimes i wonder if the name brand school is as much for parents to iess their friends.
4
The fact that this article uses descriptions that are usually reservered for business says volumes to me about the stare of the American educational system. It feel bankrupt already.
2
*Corrections: stare=state; feels
Play hardball with the schools if you can, this is business for them and a permanent and deep dent in your personal finances otherwise.
4
"if you can, "
learn the ART OF NEGOTIATION. there are plenty of books and articles on the subject.
where there is a will there is a way.
learn the ART OF NEGOTIATION. there are plenty of books and articles on the subject.
where there is a will there is a way.
At this point, the tuition and student loan burden, which has become a national financial tragedy for those carrying massive loans, anything to reduce cost is welcomed. The non stop rising costs of education has produced a bubble that should break hard at some point. Online learning will bring down costs for Uni's but will some of that be passed on via lower tuition? Probably not. The acceptance model should change with the times. More competition is needed.
1
Liberal arts schools offer the most worthless of degrees and often the most expensive. Why does the NYT continue to publish article citing these schools? The reason they are able to offer these "discounts" is because they are extraordinarily overpriced to begin with.
12
As a teacher my experience with liberal arts degrees are not only personal but anecdotal as well. I was a liberal arts graduate with history as my major. I also picked up credentials for a teaching license as well. Later I received a master's degree in special education. My undergraduate work improved my analytical skills and put me on a course for lifetime education. I am still working with students almost a half of a century after receiving my initial college degree. All of my former students who majored in liberal arts had no problem after college moving into fulfilling professions. I wonder if those with liberal arts degrees who regret their former choices put much effort into their studies.
7
STEM is the way to a good job. Forget the humanities, learn them to be well rounded but don't rely on them for income unless you want to teach.
2
If only the schools generated and shared (two very different things) enough data to help us make more informed opinions...
4
So what the article suggests is that all students should now place a deposit on their first choice but NOT notify any of the other colleges that they were accepted by on the May 1st deadline. That way the other colleges can ethically according to the current guidelines get in touch with them to offer a better financial package. Sweet! Thanks for the tip!!
9
This article pretty much nails what is happening around the country. Smaller, middle-market institutions are tuition dependent and will generally do what it takes to make their enrollment and net revenue targets. Most students do not notify the schools they were admitted to that they have deposited somewhere else, so that gives colleges the right to continue to recruit and offer more money to those students after the May 1 reply date. Once a student declares that they have indeed deposited elsewhere, they are off limits and all schools abide by that.
It has been a very difficult year for many middle-market private colleges and many missed their enrollment goals. That being said, the post-May 1 strategy is not new and has been going on for 10-15 years. Enrollment managers are under a tremendous amount of pressure to bring in the revenue that schools need to pay their bills and keep the lights on...no one wants to feel responsible for people losing their jobs. The elite institutions are in a totally different position and none of this applies to them...they have deep wait-lists and can always make their targets even if they come up short on May 1.
It has been a very difficult year for many middle-market private colleges and many missed their enrollment goals. That being said, the post-May 1 strategy is not new and has been going on for 10-15 years. Enrollment managers are under a tremendous amount of pressure to bring in the revenue that schools need to pay their bills and keep the lights on...no one wants to feel responsible for people losing their jobs. The elite institutions are in a totally different position and none of this applies to them...they have deep wait-lists and can always make their targets even if they come up short on May 1.
5
A bunch of colleges whose diploma is not worth the paper it's written on coaxing students to pay for something with no value...and you disparage Trump University?
10
The state university system in Pennsylvania is a mess (with the possible exception of Penn State). The other 14 state universities are struggling for students and a few are close to financial ruin. There are simply too many seats available than students to fill those seats. It's time for lesser performing and financially ruined universities to close. When a PA state university accepts more than 90% of its applicants, it becomes nothing more than "grade 13" rather than an institution of higher learning.
9
There's a term in the admissions biz with which most colleges are familiar: "summer melt." It refers to admitted students who have paid a deposit, but who choose not to attend. Colleges are then placed in a position of having to fill those slots in order to meet their very real financial targets. That's why the May 1 date is increasingly written in water. It's business.
12
Colleges exist to sell seats and keep a lot of faculty (who would have no jobs anywhere else) employed.
We sell billions of dollars worth of armaments to the Middle East to keep millions of Americans employed.
In the words of Michael Corleone, "it's not personal....it's strictly business."
We sell billions of dollars worth of armaments to the Middle East to keep millions of Americans employed.
In the words of Michael Corleone, "it's not personal....it's strictly business."
8
In my experience law schools seem to be in a period of particular aid insanity to boost enrollment or their statistics. A close friend of mine with middiling grades and a good but uninspiring lsat score got offers from several respectable but not highly ranked/well known law schools. One school offered him a scholarship at 50% of tuition. My friend is very lazy, and although he knew he would accept the offer spent several weeks procrastinating accepting. To him the deadline for accepting the offer was essentially the date he would muster the effort to do anything about it. The law school, when the deadline approached, offered him 100% tuition to lock up his commitment. The shocking part is my friends parents are successful and established entrepreneurs who paid for his undergraduate education without worry or the gross amounts of debt the majority of Americans who earn bachelors degrees struggle with.
18
i am a retired lawyer and had a number of conversations with the dean of my old school(a highly ranked law school). i warned the dean about 25 years ago that they were starting to graduate too many lawyers and i know that in recent years young smart lawyers have trouble getting a job. the dean told me 25 years ago that i was absolutely wrong and i know that the trustees of the well known school now press the law school to accept more students. of course the taxpayers are the losers because the loans for very expensive tuition will never get repaid. it is all a scam.
6
Which school?! Please! Do tell!
" Most people at HE institutions, especially the faculty, could get higher-paying jobs elsewhere."
where would a e.g. history professors get a job somewhere else?
"
And if you want to find the people making the big money, look at Division 1 athletics, where the coaches are often the highest-paid person at the institution."
winning coaches should be the highest paid because they bring in revenue to the University. other personnel are a cost.
where would a e.g. history professors get a job somewhere else?
"
And if you want to find the people making the big money, look at Division 1 athletics, where the coaches are often the highest-paid person at the institution."
winning coaches should be the highest paid because they bring in revenue to the University. other personnel are a cost.
9
Athletics and universities are another touchy subject. NCAA compliance and the budgets of many programs are an incredible burden and amounts you wouldn't believe. In the liberal arts world few schools have any programs that even cover a forth or more of their cost through ticket sales, advertising in stadiums, or tv money. When football was played with leather helmets and many sports teams were distinctly amateur the cost of university sports never reached what they are now. Winning coaches as you mention command high salaries, expensive staff, and expect expensive facilities. At some point there will be a legal, ethical, and financial reconning as to the dictatorship of the ncaa, tv rights, and the ethics of unpaid players risking injury in multi million dollar games.
6
I teach about 700 students per year. Each one pays about $2000 for the privilege. So I bring in $1,400,00 per year to the university. It costs less than $100,000 to maintain me. Single-handedly, I bring in more money to the university than the entire athletic program. If you check the stats, you'll find out that most Division I programs actually lose money. The few that make money keep it for themselves and academic departments see none of it.
Where would a history professor get a job? Anywhere that intelligence and flexibility are valued.
Where would a history professor get a job? Anywhere that intelligence and flexibility are valued.
11
Honestly, the "ethical issue" of dangling cash in front of students is a bit of a red herring, given how private education has been pushing students to commit earlier and earlier (through early decision/early action) to their "top" schools, while also leaving the same students vulnerable to being low-balled on financial aid (assuming that is a consideration). If they truly wanted to level the playing field, these colleges should simply abolish early action and all compete -- honestly, and with character, for the students they desire.
41
The students themselves are partly responsible for this situation by applying to a dozen or more schools when in the end they can attend only one. When everyone plays this game, it virtually guarantees that the colleges will end up with unfilled spaces.
12
But if money is a factor and what you might get (based on need or merit) is hard to predict, it can literally pay to give yourself more options, no?
17
RT, a student has no idea whether they will receive an acceptance offer for any school, much less their one preferred school. You are implying that students should only apply to ONE school. If they are turned down by that one school, now that the application deadline has long since passed for other schools what should they now do? They can't then apply to more schools.
Bottom line is there is no option other than to apply to multiple schools.
Bottom line is there is no option other than to apply to multiple schools.
8
don't blame the kids. the schools set up the system. the schools are interested in one thing---MONEY.
5
Start with community college for the first two years, then transfer to four year college or better yet study in Germany for free.
18
When I first enrolled in college over 20 years ago, my first choice was Seton Hill University. I badly wanted to attend there but was not offered enough money to cover the expensive tuition. As most do I applied to several other colleges, I accepted an offer to attend Kentucky State University. I was what I could afford. That was in March and I graduated in June. While my college experience was fine, if at any time up until that first semester, if Seton Hill would have come to me "We have worked it out, you can afford to go here" type of conversation...I would have went. I think the bigger picture is the cost of tuition. If the cost can be lowered then it should be period. Colleges and Universities are a business. As an professional working adult who has once again return to college for another degree, I understand and believe wholeheartedly that colleges are businesses. They need profits as well as government aide to run. The marketing, and campaigning, recruiting makes that clear. As a CONSUMER I should have the right to make fully informed decisions. This includes if the financial scenario, then reevaluation should be allowed. When recently making the decision about where to earn my next degree, hands down COST was the biggest factor. True, as a non traditional adult learner I am in a different situation that 20 years ago, however, I encourage teens to look at COST when making the decision. It's just too important to ignore.
8
I happen to know of one example. A good friend of one of my children was accepted at both Harvard and Yale Law schools., after graduating summa cum laude from another ivy. After deciding to attend Harvard, Yale offered him money (a tuition break) to change his mind, which he didn't. He was from a very prominent international family.
7
This is a sister article to the NYT article describing the end times for tuition discounting. These colleges aren't Harvard; they're desperate. They want to find that sweet spot that brings in as much tuition money as possible, and discounting a few more students a little more deeply at least brings in whatever parental, federal, state and loan money the kids can bring with them. Students, if your favorite school is trying to woo you away from the one for which you already plunked down a deposit, think about why they might be so needy.
14
But what if it is, in fact, your first choice and was all along?
15
As Gio hints at, the phenomenon described here is just one of the harbingers of the big shakeout coming in American higher education, among both not-for-profit and profit making institutions alike.
A number of trends are ganging up on the ability of many institutions to survive: the growing reluctance of government on all levels to continue to subsidize institutions of higher education, both indirectly with tax dollars and directly with financial aid (though this has wide geographic variations as to degree); the shrinking cohort of college age students due to demographics; the difficulty in replacing that cohort with full-paying foreign students in an environment that under the current administration has become much less friendly to them, and the ever increasing threat from on-line education and the push for its credentialing.
The number of institutions out there providing higher ed is likely to shrink by somewhere between a fifth and a third over the next few decades. The big prestigious universities with many more applicants than available spots are not immediately endangered, but many of those middle-to-lower tier schools, liberal arts and otherwise, are going to have increasing trouble filling those freshman classes. Some may argue the shrinking of the bloat may be a good thing, but imagine the increased unemployment this inevitable shakeout will bring in its wake.
A number of trends are ganging up on the ability of many institutions to survive: the growing reluctance of government on all levels to continue to subsidize institutions of higher education, both indirectly with tax dollars and directly with financial aid (though this has wide geographic variations as to degree); the shrinking cohort of college age students due to demographics; the difficulty in replacing that cohort with full-paying foreign students in an environment that under the current administration has become much less friendly to them, and the ever increasing threat from on-line education and the push for its credentialing.
The number of institutions out there providing higher ed is likely to shrink by somewhere between a fifth and a third over the next few decades. The big prestigious universities with many more applicants than available spots are not immediately endangered, but many of those middle-to-lower tier schools, liberal arts and otherwise, are going to have increasing trouble filling those freshman classes. Some may argue the shrinking of the bloat may be a good thing, but imagine the increased unemployment this inevitable shakeout will bring in its wake.
27
Indiana's tiny religious private colleges cost too much, leave students unprepared for any job other than pastor, and don't create many employable students nor on-campus jobs. Half of their mission is educating prisoners, who would be better off learning welding than ministry.
13
Many of the low end private not-for-profit schools should be shaken out as they do not provide a viable education for the cost. However, I worry about the impact on state universities. For people coming from economic backgrounds less than the upper middle class, state schools provide a generally acceptable education at a more reasonable cost. They are the only way for many to get out of the cycle of economic hardship. Some public schools are very good, but generally they provide a crucial, acceptable product to the masses with some state help.
Private schools generally operate in an ethics free zone as they rarely provide an education of any value and are usually much more expensive than a public school alternative. They are the ones likely to prey on the ignorant. Besides, most of us would never hire a for-profit school grad - we know the education can easily be fraudulent.
Private schools generally operate in an ethics free zone as they rarely provide an education of any value and are usually much more expensive than a public school alternative. They are the ones likely to prey on the ignorant. Besides, most of us would never hire a for-profit school grad - we know the education can easily be fraudulent.
3
Pragmatist, when you say "Private schools ..... rarely provide an education of any value" do you mean private FOR PROFIT schools? Because there are many, many private schools that absolutely provide an excellent education. Think the Ivies, etc.
4
It's time for Universities to begin recruiting heavily at community colleges where students completing their 2-year transfer degrees are poised to enter the 4-year University sweepstakes! Their savvy parents have had 2 more years to save and now have piles of cash waiting just for you. Please send your scholarship and discounts offers our way and make it good since there are thousands of schools for us to choose from! You need us more than we need you.
21
The students at community colleges are not exactly the academic cream of the crop.
3
The May 1st deadline has never been as hard and fast as it seems. In the mid 1980's I applied in August(!) to an expensive women's college with an acceptable academic reputation (to my parents) but a fading market position. I was accepted, despite modest grades and middling SAT's, because of my high AP scores and my parent's ability to pay full freight. I started school a few weeks after applying. Even back then, it was clear to my parents that many schools are willing to talk outside of the typical application framework. That strategy wouldn't likely work at Harvard, and it certainly doesn't work for students who need financial aid, but it is worth knowing for some kids in some circumstances.
14
What school was that?
3
Small private institutions in particular are putting their enrollments at risk by playing a wealth redistribution game. They often don't offer merit scholarships with the rationalization that, "all our applicants would deserve scholarships." Then they raise their prices into the stratosphere, using the money from those who pay full tuition of $50,000+ to subsidize students on the low end of the scale. This creates a dumbbell shaped distribution of acceptances from those who decide to pony up the full tuition (Why anybody does that is another story, because the cost/benefit compared to a public school simply isn't there) and those who get significant need-based aid. What is lacking is the vast swath in the middle of people who could possibly afford to attend, but who recognize that spending a quarter of a million dollars on a private school is nonsense when there are so many excellent public universities with honors programs.
This is not a sustainable model, but is being pushed and sustained by the myth that everybody should go to college. Not everybody can, or should, attend a 4-year college or university. But that's another column entirely.
This is not a sustainable model, but is being pushed and sustained by the myth that everybody should go to college. Not everybody can, or should, attend a 4-year college or university. But that's another column entirely.
60
I am very curious about the redistribution of resources. Most of the elite LACs I that I toured are focused on accepting 20% first generation students. At a small liberal arts school, that is a significant number of acceptances. After you take out the athletic recruits, alumni kids, first generation and minorities it is a daunting for a white middle class kid.
16
Except for the fact that if the student wants to major in photography, for example, there are few state colleges that offer a degree that has the same prestige and job offers that come with it, if they even have the major at all. Then you're back to $50,000 tuition that few can afford without very large loans or a very large bank account. And God help you if you're not a high school honor student but extremely talented in the field you want to major in but with parents who have little money, you get accepted but nothing in the way of financial aid.
1
I found my higher education (over 20 years, ending with the PhD degree) to be a very personal experience as well as very rewarding. I feel sorry for anyone who views college in simple cost-benefit terms.
1
"These are business tactics,” she said. “Parents and kids approach it like a holier-than-thou process, but colleges approach it more like a business.”
Yup. On the one hand, some of us have known this for a long time, especially about the mid-tier schools. On the other hand, I feel really bad for the folks that do not understand the college marketplace. It is very difficult to navigate.
Yup. On the one hand, some of us have known this for a long time, especially about the mid-tier schools. On the other hand, I feel really bad for the folks that do not understand the college marketplace. It is very difficult to navigate.
14
Enough. We need federal legislation requiring all scholarship/grant/financial aid offers to be made by April 1 and all acceptances by May 1. Stop playing with people.
Yeah, no. For community colleges, last minute open doors are the best policy. Unfortunately, for-profit colleges prey on the kinds of people who should be going to community college with these last minute open door policies also. And Harvard is still going to pick off their wait list as necessary, no matter what deadlines any one sets in place.
8
So as a high school teacher, I'm doing my students a disservice when I tell them to let their other colleges know that they've accepted somewhere else? If your student has been waitlisted, universities and colleges need to know you've accepted somewhere else so that they can begin offering spots to their waitlisted students. The process described implies, commit but don't inform other schools because they might come back with a better financial offer!
23
Although providing notice to schools that you do not intend to attend would be the right thing to do, leaving your options open makes sense. Ultimately the schools require deposits. If a deposit is not received by the designated deadline it allows the school to start offering spots off their wait list.
2
One point of the article is that these offers came in AFTER the May 1st deadline to commit to a college.
1
"schools are not supposed to dangle financial offers in front of people who have committed to other institutions."
Please. Today schools are nothing but big business disguised as institutions of higher learning. With deans making rock star salaries in the millions at some schools, no commitment on assisting a student to complete their degree once enrolled and tuition in the stratusphere the only thing they can dangle is the cost of entry. And once the school term begins and empty seat gathers no money. Its just like an airplane seat
Please. Today schools are nothing but big business disguised as institutions of higher learning. With deans making rock star salaries in the millions at some schools, no commitment on assisting a student to complete their degree once enrolled and tuition in the stratusphere the only thing they can dangle is the cost of entry. And once the school term begins and empty seat gathers no money. Its just like an airplane seat
38
You're completely wrong. Find us one school where a dean makes "millions" a year. Most people at HE institutions, especially the faculty, could get higher-paying jobs elsewhere. Why they don't is another story, but let's not pretend that people are getting rich here.
And if you want to find the people making the big money, look at Division 1 athletics, where the coaches are often the highest-paid person at the institution.
And if you want to find the people making the big money, look at Division 1 athletics, where the coaches are often the highest-paid person at the institution.
16
1. Jack P. Varsalona, Wilmington University (Del.): $5,449,405
2. Mark S. Wrighton, Washington University in St. Louis: $4,185,866
3. Gerald Turner, Southern Methodist University: $3,354,128
4. Amy Gutmann, University of Pennsylvania: $2,962,708
5. Lee C. Bollinger, Columbia University: $2,447,032
6. Morton O. Schapiro, Northwestern University: $2,352,578
7. Robert Fisher, Belmont University: $2,120,091
8. Robert J. Zimmer, University of Chicago: $2,051,089
9. James F. Jones Jr., Trinity College (Conn.): $1,661,794
10. David J. Skorton, Cornell University: $1,618,328
Shall I go on?
2. Mark S. Wrighton, Washington University in St. Louis: $4,185,866
3. Gerald Turner, Southern Methodist University: $3,354,128
4. Amy Gutmann, University of Pennsylvania: $2,962,708
5. Lee C. Bollinger, Columbia University: $2,447,032
6. Morton O. Schapiro, Northwestern University: $2,352,578
7. Robert Fisher, Belmont University: $2,120,091
8. Robert J. Zimmer, University of Chicago: $2,051,089
9. James F. Jones Jr., Trinity College (Conn.): $1,661,794
10. David J. Skorton, Cornell University: $1,618,328
Shall I go on?
19
These are Deans? Looks like a bunch of college presidents to me.
Deans may earn $200,000 or so--some less, some more.
Deans may earn $200,000 or so--some less, some more.
1
College is big business supported by massive government grants and loan subsidies/backstops. The article mentions "ethics" and "dirty play." One shouldn't feel guilty taking advantage of every opportunity to reduce one's costs when attending college. This is a big purchase with the potential to leave many people worse off than better off if incorrectly calculated. Keep playing hardball for your own sake.
14
If you are paying for a big name alma mater in the future, better make sure the place is solvent enough for anyone to know about it in 10-20 years.
2
Of course it's about the bottom dollar. Universities can't operate without tuition revenue.
In their quieter time, university employees (administrators and faculty alike) know this. And whether they want to admit it or not, they operate by those principles. There is a reason that the chairs of certain departments regularly call my office to find ways to entice students into their program. the bottom dollar.
This does not mean, however, that education has to suffer. To the contrary, as universities compete for students, their product has to increase accordingly. Technology is upgraded and resources are added. If managed appropriately, this new era can be a win/win.
In their quieter time, university employees (administrators and faculty alike) know this. And whether they want to admit it or not, they operate by those principles. There is a reason that the chairs of certain departments regularly call my office to find ways to entice students into their program. the bottom dollar.
This does not mean, however, that education has to suffer. To the contrary, as universities compete for students, their product has to increase accordingly. Technology is upgraded and resources are added. If managed appropriately, this new era can be a win/win.
8
Early Decision at some schools opens in July, and for the next 10 months schools do anything possible to enhance selectivity rankings by increasing the number of applications they receive. The result is that more and more schools reject and place students on waitlists. The games are endless.
Now a few lower tier schools are attempting to fill space to maintain financial viability, and that's concerning? At $60k+ per year, it's going to be harder and harder for these schools to exist. They are the collateral damage of the selective schools soaking every dollar out of the fewer and fewer folks paying retail. Schools have figured out that they make the most money by finding the final dollar someone will pay....and discounting everyone else back to their thresholds. The whole college system has lost its way.
Now a few lower tier schools are attempting to fill space to maintain financial viability, and that's concerning? At $60k+ per year, it's going to be harder and harder for these schools to exist. They are the collateral damage of the selective schools soaking every dollar out of the fewer and fewer folks paying retail. Schools have figured out that they make the most money by finding the final dollar someone will pay....and discounting everyone else back to their thresholds. The whole college system has lost its way.
54
Every phase of American life has been commodified. From daycare to camps to after school activities to college to housing to assisted living to retirement and of course, healthcare all along the way. It's a government-sanctioned obstacle course of grifters. And as a parent of a high school junior, paying for college is like a Rubik's cube, but I can't even see the colors on the cube yet. What stress we all live with every day.
35
“If it is all going to be about the bottom dollar, we are all in a world of hurt, frankly.” Spoken like a true college administrator with a six-figure salary, excellent benefits and who has deluded himself that he's not in the business of luxury sales. Hello...for the majority of American families the choice of where to send a child to college is all about the bottom dollar.
65
I wish my job was so cushy! Hey college administrators, your crying to the choir!
How naively settled these Ivory Tower lifers must be to actually think it's not "all about the bottom dollar". Such is the value of tenure, a secure pension and luxury health care all paid for by families who obviously should not be "...all about the bottom dollar...". Perhaps preparing future groundskeepers for their campuses at ridiculously high cost is something these administrators consider worthy undertakings, that is, compared to recent revelations about "for-profit" diploma mills, or are we missing something here?
5