There is one final pint that I would make, but only after considering:
1. Donald admitted that he had shared sensitive classified Intel, received from Mosad (Israeli Intel) with Lavrov and Kislyak and that, only one journalist present--a Russian--was present. Why was that?
2. He had just fired Director James Comey--as the wolf got closer to his door--and he even commented about it, and called Comey a "Nut-Job".
3. He surely is not building a Regime that is prepared to do anything, but self-destruct! Except for the generals, everyone else seems to be a part of the Libertarian Billionaire Dark Money Crowd.
4. Rex Tillerson hasn't seemed to protest as Trump suggests slashing the State Department--many programs of which reduce the tense conflicts in poor countries. Even SecDef Mattis, the main beneficiary, suggests the insanity of it.
5. And there are only two-or-three Deputy or Assistant Secretaries TOTAL, throughout the entire Trump Regime, to cover when the Secretary is out, or to which some high-level responsibilities might be assigned.
Through this all, and much, much more: Since Donald Trump announced his candidacy, in June of 2015, he has had nothing but good things to say about Russia and its President, Vladimir Putin. With all roads in the investigation apparently leading to Moscow, why has he not acknowledged as much?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1. Donald admitted that he had shared sensitive classified Intel, received from Mosad (Israeli Intel) with Lavrov and Kislyak and that, only one journalist present--a Russian--was present. Why was that?
2. He had just fired Director James Comey--as the wolf got closer to his door--and he even commented about it, and called Comey a "Nut-Job".
3. He surely is not building a Regime that is prepared to do anything, but self-destruct! Except for the generals, everyone else seems to be a part of the Libertarian Billionaire Dark Money Crowd.
4. Rex Tillerson hasn't seemed to protest as Trump suggests slashing the State Department--many programs of which reduce the tense conflicts in poor countries. Even SecDef Mattis, the main beneficiary, suggests the insanity of it.
5. And there are only two-or-three Deputy or Assistant Secretaries TOTAL, throughout the entire Trump Regime, to cover when the Secretary is out, or to which some high-level responsibilities might be assigned.
Through this all, and much, much more: Since Donald Trump announced his candidacy, in June of 2015, he has had nothing but good things to say about Russia and its President, Vladimir Putin. With all roads in the investigation apparently leading to Moscow, why has he not acknowledged as much?
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
23
This opinion is strictly Democratic Party politics. We've had a steady diet of impeachment talk for weeks, including from the Times own columnists. Lawrence Tribe, the Constitutionalists' Constitutionalist, pitched it in the Post. The daily charade of this fool's ignorance, incompetence and unpreparedness makes a drop dead case. He is completely ill-suited to run the country. He knows nothing, period, about running a state. He's a malevolent Chance the Gardener. Add to that nepotism and bald-faced corruption. But suddenly the Democrats are saying "not so fast...He's not THAT bad." Oh yeah? There's one and just one reason for that: they want him to screw up more before Nov. '18. I feel the same but the reasons given in this editorial are bogus. The objective evidence, regardless of politics, is we can't risk him being in charge for one more day, let alone 20 months. This jerk has gotta go. He's causing severe and permanent damage to what's left of the formerly admirable USA.
Might The Editorial Board have considered the words of Senator Diane Feinstein, D-CA, who is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee and Judiciary Committee?
"WOLF BLITZER, CNN: “The last time we spoke, Senator, I asked you if you had actually seen evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, and you said to me — and I’m quoting you now — you said, ‘not at this time.’ Has anything changed since we spoke last?”
SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): “Well, not– no, it hasn’t.” …
BLITZER: “But I just want to be precise, Senator. In all of the—you’ve had access from the intelligence committee, from the Judiciary committee, all of the access you’ve had to very sensitive information, so far you’ve not seen any evidence of collusion, is that right?”
SEN. FEINSTEIN: “Well, evidence that would establish that there’s collusion. There are all kinds of rumors around. There are newspaper stories, but that’s not necessarily evidence.”
One would expect The Editorial Board to look at facts......and perhaps, finally, the Editors have looked at facts, not rumors.
"WOLF BLITZER, CNN: “The last time we spoke, Senator, I asked you if you had actually seen evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, and you said to me — and I’m quoting you now — you said, ‘not at this time.’ Has anything changed since we spoke last?”
SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): “Well, not– no, it hasn’t.” …
BLITZER: “But I just want to be precise, Senator. In all of the—you’ve had access from the intelligence committee, from the Judiciary committee, all of the access you’ve had to very sensitive information, so far you’ve not seen any evidence of collusion, is that right?”
SEN. FEINSTEIN: “Well, evidence that would establish that there’s collusion. There are all kinds of rumors around. There are newspaper stories, but that’s not necessarily evidence.”
One would expect The Editorial Board to look at facts......and perhaps, finally, the Editors have looked at facts, not rumors.
21
And, we are NOT going to get there, even with the Times' bleatings!
6
Not at Watergate yet? What planet is the New York Times Edictorial Board on?
Oh yeah, we're no longer in 1974. Now, we're only back in 1984
Trump has appointed Voter Suppression Empresario Kris Kobach to head his commission on "Election Integrity."
Translation for Bozos: Trump is already working to steal the 2018 and 2020 elections.
But hey, at least we're not "at Watergate" yet. Thanks ever so much for pointing that out. Enjoy continuing to be useless.
Oh yeah, we're no longer in 1974. Now, we're only back in 1984
Trump has appointed Voter Suppression Empresario Kris Kobach to head his commission on "Election Integrity."
Translation for Bozos: Trump is already working to steal the 2018 and 2020 elections.
But hey, at least we're not "at Watergate" yet. Thanks ever so much for pointing that out. Enjoy continuing to be useless.
24
You mean, "These are not the droids you are looking for?"
8
Finally, the NYT is toning down their rhetoric, which made them look incredibly foolish to the rational world. Maybe now the paper will get back to reporting rather than editorializing every section of the paper. When the paper's editorial board starts dictating the political tone into the arts section, you know they've gone too far.
14
The potential of treasonous acts makes Wategate look like a parlor game.
28
What is the explanation for why the integrity and even the intelligence of so many members of Congress is at such a low bar? During Watergate, and Contragate, there were intelligent members of the GOP who were thoughtful, decisive, and judicious public servants. Where are they now? The best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity. I wish we could see what was coming, and barring that, figure out how we've gotten to this state of affairs. The explanation isn't poverty, or the Rust Belt. From Yeats, to Dylan: something's going on, but what is it? I was cheered to read that students at the evangelist Liberty College protested Pence as a commencement speaker: perhaps something new will be born on the right, in time.
11
During his last testimony before the Senate Committee, FBI Director James Comey was asked why Russia preferred Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton. He answered: “The intelligence communities' assessment had a couple of parts with respect to that. One is he wasn't Hillary Clinton, who Putin hated and wanted to harm in any possible way, and so he was her opponent, so necessarily they supported him.” The Putin-Clinton vendetta dates to 2011, when Hillary, acting as U.S. secretary of state, accused Putin of rigging Russia’s parliamentary elections. He retaliated by working to undermine her presidential campaign. No collusion on the part of the Trump campaign or Trump associated was required.
The intelligence community assessment stated that Putin initially praised Trump and disparaged Clinton, but it noted that in June Putin stopped praising Trump because Moscow realized that “any praise from Putin personally would backfire in the United States." Indeed Hillary Clinton used the Putin’s support from Trump as a major talking point in her campaign, asking voters if it were wise to vote for a candidate approved by Putin. Reporters grilled Trump over favorable remarks he made he made about Putting. The Democrats’ post-election assertion that Putin’s support was an advantage rather than a liability for Trump is laughable.
The intelligence community assessment stated that Putin initially praised Trump and disparaged Clinton, but it noted that in June Putin stopped praising Trump because Moscow realized that “any praise from Putin personally would backfire in the United States." Indeed Hillary Clinton used the Putin’s support from Trump as a major talking point in her campaign, asking voters if it were wise to vote for a candidate approved by Putin. Reporters grilled Trump over favorable remarks he made he made about Putting. The Democrats’ post-election assertion that Putin’s support was an advantage rather than a liability for Trump is laughable.
8
All Nixon did was fire Archibald Cox. Trump not only fired James Comey but he has made public statements about firing him "for the Russia thing", his cabinet has made inappropriate meetings with Russia, his own money is very intertwined with Russia (but he won't publish taxes as another piece of evidence) I disagree with this writer and think Trump has already far surpassed the minimum evidence standard of impeachment. This is not to mention his business practices which are often not only corrupt but also in violation of the Emoluments clause.
This call for being more measured is correct, but months late. Too many are now on record and their behavior shows how rash, politically motivated, petty, and mean-spirited Trump's opponents are. Trump has given us plenty of substance to be concerned about. But his most rabid opposition goes way beyond that. All should note that while Trump has little deep support, those who would take him out of office are not building any capital with voters, either. I see this as working even harder against anyone in either party running for office in the near future who can be connected to the establishment. I would be happy to be finished with Trump. But I am equally finished with those who have been licking their chops and sharpening their knives. I cannot help but think that Trump is fortunate in getting the enemies he has. Learn from HRC--being outraged at Trump is not enough. Being outrageous about Trump is worse. Watergate put the wind in the Democrat's sails. This whole thing is deflating on both sides. No one is showing their level-headedness and proportionality. That is why this won't be Watergate II.
The nation's best interests will be undercut by partisan politicking from both sides of the aisle. Whether or not the current evidence rises to the level of criminality and grounds for impeachment, Trump's instability is a clear danger to our democracy - perhaps to our very lives. He should be removed, employing the 25th Amendment if necessary. That said, Republicans will stall the 25th option or impeachment as long as he is popular with the base. Should Trump lose support of the base and McConnell calculate that the party would be better viewed in the heroic light of putting country before party, Republicans will turn on him en masse. Democrats too have a reason to stall, milking the electorate's revulsion of Trump for political gain in 2018.
4
At this point, I think that there are three aspects of concern: the issue of impeachment/conviction, the criminal prosecution of Trump, and the criminal prosecution of his minions.
It seems to me that between Trump's own words, and what will likely to be revealed in the Comey memos, the plateau of removing Trump from office has been reached. All it takes to accomplish the political act of impeachment/conviction is the will of both houses of Congress.
The second and third forks will take a lot time and we need to be patient about the wheels of justice turning. It will take years.
It seems to me that between Trump's own words, and what will likely to be revealed in the Comey memos, the plateau of removing Trump from office has been reached. All it takes to accomplish the political act of impeachment/conviction is the will of both houses of Congress.
The second and third forks will take a lot time and we need to be patient about the wheels of justice turning. It will take years.
6
Both political parties used Nixon's Watergate for their own purposes. The writer is correct is writing that the Trump-Russia investigation is not at that level yet.
For years after Watergate, the Republicans sought a similar Watergate, Democratic style. The GOP thought they had it in President Bill Clinton. Yes, Clinton was impeached by a partisan GOP House , but was not convicted by a bi-partisan Senate. Iran contra was close, but by the time it had reached its apex, Reagan had two years or less remaining on his term and he stated he could not remember what happened. Others were convicted.
The Democrats should leave impeachment for the moment and concentrate on the Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. There are GOP partisans that do not believe it happened because their leader, the President has not acknowledged that it happened. Also, the investigation into the Comey dismissal and the reasons for Trump taking that action should receive exhaustive examination to determine the possibility of a cover-up. Democrats and American citizens interested in the Republic should also push the money trail and the conflicts between Trump Inc. and the Constitution's emoluments clause. Trump's income tax filings should be opened up for a forensic audit to reveal if a money trail exists between Russia and Trump Inc.
Impeachment is not there for the moment, but questions concerning Trump and the national interest need answers.
For years after Watergate, the Republicans sought a similar Watergate, Democratic style. The GOP thought they had it in President Bill Clinton. Yes, Clinton was impeached by a partisan GOP House , but was not convicted by a bi-partisan Senate. Iran contra was close, but by the time it had reached its apex, Reagan had two years or less remaining on his term and he stated he could not remember what happened. Others were convicted.
The Democrats should leave impeachment for the moment and concentrate on the Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. There are GOP partisans that do not believe it happened because their leader, the President has not acknowledged that it happened. Also, the investigation into the Comey dismissal and the reasons for Trump taking that action should receive exhaustive examination to determine the possibility of a cover-up. Democrats and American citizens interested in the Republic should also push the money trail and the conflicts between Trump Inc. and the Constitution's emoluments clause. Trump's income tax filings should be opened up for a forensic audit to reveal if a money trail exists between Russia and Trump Inc.
Impeachment is not there for the moment, but questions concerning Trump and the national interest need answers.
3
Make no mistake.
The goal of the liberal establishment is the nullification of the election.
Impeachment? No. That won't serve their needs.
The goal is to simply cripple and discredit Trump. This not only will prevent him from enacting any of his policies, but much more importantly, provide a means to discredit conservatives in general.
The goal is not to determine if there is fire where there is smoke. On the contrary, the goal is simply to create more smoke.
The goal of the liberal establishment is the nullification of the election.
Impeachment? No. That won't serve their needs.
The goal is to simply cripple and discredit Trump. This not only will prevent him from enacting any of his policies, but much more importantly, provide a means to discredit conservatives in general.
The goal is not to determine if there is fire where there is smoke. On the contrary, the goal is simply to create more smoke.
11
"Their main job is to rouse the public to use Mr. Trump’s unimpressive polling numbers as leverage on Republicans, who already are citing the Mueller investigation as reason to slow down congressional inquiries into the Trump and Russia affair. Beyond that, they and other critics should be working hard to win back a majority next year in at least one house of Congress."
Agreed, lead the Republicans to the decision that they will have to make, avoid making it largely a partisan affair. The reason for doing so is that as noted the Democrats need to focus on more than the White House, they need to make up a lot of ground. Even a lot of Blue states have a lot of Red. The country needs a viable Democratic party, a party with an appealing agenda, a party that will stop alienating voters.
https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/house?mcubz=0
Agreed, lead the Republicans to the decision that they will have to make, avoid making it largely a partisan affair. The reason for doing so is that as noted the Democrats need to focus on more than the White House, they need to make up a lot of ground. Even a lot of Blue states have a lot of Red. The country needs a viable Democratic party, a party with an appealing agenda, a party that will stop alienating voters.
https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/house?mcubz=0
4
Impeachment offers not only a relief to wrongdoing, but a catharsis for a national soul badly wounded. The entire country felt relief at the end of the Nixon-induced "long national nightmare." That is not yet true in this case. The time for impeachment can only come when not only is wrongdoing widely accepted by when we as Americans across the political spectrum feel that the country can only survive without this menace. We're not there yet. I suspect we will get there, but not today.
5
I'm relieved by the existence of a special prosecutor. Some commenters complain that too much attention has been diverted from issues of substance by this conflict, but I disagree. It is still possible to hold the powerful to account for lawless behavior while noticing what is happening to health care, education, the environment, national parks, the arts and sciences, human rights, vote-rigging, corruption and cronyism. None of those things have passed without scrutiny. We know who are responsible for it, and they will be held to account on election day.
4
We may not be at Watergate level yet but we do need to take this seriously. Not because this investigation has the potential to take down a sitting president but because we need to show the world that outside influences of our presidential election will not be tolerated and puppets will be removed. How we handle this situation as a nation determines our future.
4
Not Watergate yet? I don't get it. There are indications that Trump operatives may have made promises to Russians during the election, in return for what? We don't know because the investigation was secret, as it is supposed to be until indictments are given. But that's not serious?
Trump fired Comey either 1) because he was getting too close to uncovering the truth, or 2) because the investigation was damaging to Trump's frail ego. So Trump had hopes of getting rid of the "real" investigation and relying on the pompous Republicans in Congress to posture their way through a swaggering coverup for the President.
Now we have an independent investigation that the President and Attorney General can interfere with only at great political expense. Let's give them time to do their work and then decide whether "we're there."
Trump fired Comey either 1) because he was getting too close to uncovering the truth, or 2) because the investigation was damaging to Trump's frail ego. So Trump had hopes of getting rid of the "real" investigation and relying on the pompous Republicans in Congress to posture their way through a swaggering coverup for the President.
Now we have an independent investigation that the President and Attorney General can interfere with only at great political expense. Let's give them time to do their work and then decide whether "we're there."
9
"Democrats remain a largely powerless minority ..." Words of comfort and joy to anyone who respects the human dignity of every person and our constitutional system. If only it were so. Democratic/Left orthodoxy dominates nearly all of the institutions that influence our culture: the media, the academy, the legacy protestant churches, the primary and secondary school systems and more. Of course much of the current chaos comes from the statements and conduct of Trump himself. What makes things exponentially more chaotic is that the culturally dominant forces in the country find intolerable their substantial exclusion from governmental power and respond with hysteria.
4
I've never read so many maybes, might haves, etc.
There is, at least at this point, no there there.
1) Russian hackers may have hacked the DNC, but despite the rush to judgment of our intel agencies, proving beyond a doubt it was Russian hackers let alone that they were ordered by Putin is a major hurdle.
2) Linking Trump to Russia in any way that smacks of collusion is difficult and so far there is no evidence that occurred. Not even the suggestion of evidence.
3) We still aren't sure why the FBI was specifically investigating Russia. If the issue was protecting our systems (political, governmental, infrastructure) then there are so many actors capable of hacking that focusing on one is much too narrow. If however, the intent is to determine whether to take additional action against Russia, that might make sense, but at the expense of focusing on cybersecurity?
4) The Russia investigation makes sense politically if the purpose is to damage Trump.
5) Firing Comey was within presidential authority and most dems were screaming for his head last Oct
6) Comey arrogated prosecutorial power for the conclusion of the HRC email investigation which he should not have done.
7) No evidence of any sort that Trump tried to obstruct justice. The only inference is Comey's emails which are simply hearsay.
In short, there is nothing impeachable here except in the fevered brains of the left who are still re-litigating the election.
There is, at least at this point, no there there.
1) Russian hackers may have hacked the DNC, but despite the rush to judgment of our intel agencies, proving beyond a doubt it was Russian hackers let alone that they were ordered by Putin is a major hurdle.
2) Linking Trump to Russia in any way that smacks of collusion is difficult and so far there is no evidence that occurred. Not even the suggestion of evidence.
3) We still aren't sure why the FBI was specifically investigating Russia. If the issue was protecting our systems (political, governmental, infrastructure) then there are so many actors capable of hacking that focusing on one is much too narrow. If however, the intent is to determine whether to take additional action against Russia, that might make sense, but at the expense of focusing on cybersecurity?
4) The Russia investigation makes sense politically if the purpose is to damage Trump.
5) Firing Comey was within presidential authority and most dems were screaming for his head last Oct
6) Comey arrogated prosecutorial power for the conclusion of the HRC email investigation which he should not have done.
7) No evidence of any sort that Trump tried to obstruct justice. The only inference is Comey's emails which are simply hearsay.
In short, there is nothing impeachable here except in the fevered brains of the left who are still re-litigating the election.
"But Watergate? We’re not there yet. That’s a word that summons obstruction on a monumental scale, with evidence to prove overt criminal acts."
The corruption of Nixon's administration will pale in comparison to Trump's once Mueller begins his investigation. The evidence will be easy to uncover with all of the leaks and tweets and obstruction of justice will be more than monumental. Watergate did not jeopardize our country on a global scale. Trumpgate will be historical.
The corruption of Nixon's administration will pale in comparison to Trump's once Mueller begins his investigation. The evidence will be easy to uncover with all of the leaks and tweets and obstruction of justice will be more than monumental. Watergate did not jeopardize our country on a global scale. Trumpgate will be historical.
6
Of course this hasn't reached the level of Watergate just yet. I took 900 or so days for Nixon to quit after the Watergate break in. It didn't happen overnight, and much of it happened in the press with dogged investigative journalism.
Even after the hearings started puzzle pieces were still coming together and much of it was about the coverup. It wasn't until Whitehouse staff started flip on each other that the extent of things became clear.
Clinton's impeachement wasn't about a coverup so much as lying, and Iran Contra never had as many moving parts or as many public gaffs, lies omissions and public refutations.
Eventually the Republican minority gave in on the articles of impeachement but not before desperately trying to add various amendments that all got struck down. They ultimately had to sway to public opinion which I have no doubt our current congress will do if the weather is right.
Yes, the Democrats should be focusing on the winning back seats as a whole. But this is also a very large, potentially criminal endeavor and it shouldn't be ignored for fear of losing seats in the next election.
Even after the hearings started puzzle pieces were still coming together and much of it was about the coverup. It wasn't until Whitehouse staff started flip on each other that the extent of things became clear.
Clinton's impeachement wasn't about a coverup so much as lying, and Iran Contra never had as many moving parts or as many public gaffs, lies omissions and public refutations.
Eventually the Republican minority gave in on the articles of impeachement but not before desperately trying to add various amendments that all got struck down. They ultimately had to sway to public opinion which I have no doubt our current congress will do if the weather is right.
Yes, the Democrats should be focusing on the winning back seats as a whole. But this is also a very large, potentially criminal endeavor and it shouldn't be ignored for fear of losing seats in the next election.
4
If you want Trump to resign, assuming this can be negotiated, you will probably have to agree to a full and complete pardon for all acts while campaigning and holding the Presidency. There will be other clauses just as onerous, some written and others unwritten. Your base will howl, but consider the cost of trying to impeach, or 4 years of a Trump Presidency.
1
Please consider where we would be if the AG, Jeff Sessions had not been forced to recuse himself.
Would we have Mr Mueller?
Our system of checks and balances may be in far more danger than we know.
Would we have Mr Mueller?
Our system of checks and balances may be in far more danger than we know.
3
What is not yet proven is the collusion with Russia and what pay-offs Trump and his people are receiving. Flynn is one key. Exactly how much did he receive. You can be sure it is more than 45,000 for one speech. Remember the British spy documents showing Trump's Russian connections (and the hilarious golden shower incident)? They have never come to light.
When Muller gets a look at Trump's tax returns this will become clearer
Meanwhile we have him exposing State secrets to the Russians and his family enriching themselves with the Chinese and others. And that's only what we know.
It is not too early to start talking impeachment. The amount of damage to us all in just 4 months is astounding
When Muller gets a look at Trump's tax returns this will become clearer
Meanwhile we have him exposing State secrets to the Russians and his family enriching themselves with the Chinese and others. And that's only what we know.
It is not too early to start talking impeachment. The amount of damage to us all in just 4 months is astounding
4
Unlike Nixon's aides, who in the Trump WH, and his circle are willing to go the distance for the boss? By the looks of things, there doesn't seem to be that sort of loyalty in the WH. Bribes or not, I don't think Trump could muster that sort of do or die acts from his staff.
But something important about Nixon, that Trump is starting to shows signs of - was that Nixon insisted he be fully informed once he found out about the link to the break-ins. He willfully got his hands dirty, much to Dean's surprise and counsel not to. I once believed Trump was mostly (90+%) out of the loop...but the more he behaves the way he does, and acts ever more the political neophyte by personally raising the specter of tapes (its like he's regressing instead of learning) - the more I'm starting to think he now knows the Who, What and Where's. Which is part of the reasons behind his abrupt firing of Comey. He knows more now - and thinks he can manage it solo. Mostly because he's still in, "This is my organization, and I take care of problems!" mode. He isnt grasping that Washington is NOT his, that while he occupies the Oval, he has no institutional networks, or relevant experience, and most certainly not the humility to recognize how much he has to learn - from the very people he vilifies and/or keeps tossing under the buses.
IMO, he's dangerous because he fails to grasp his own weaknesses, and that's a recipe for epic mistake making. Something we'd expect from a 20-something, not a 70yo.
But something important about Nixon, that Trump is starting to shows signs of - was that Nixon insisted he be fully informed once he found out about the link to the break-ins. He willfully got his hands dirty, much to Dean's surprise and counsel not to. I once believed Trump was mostly (90+%) out of the loop...but the more he behaves the way he does, and acts ever more the political neophyte by personally raising the specter of tapes (its like he's regressing instead of learning) - the more I'm starting to think he now knows the Who, What and Where's. Which is part of the reasons behind his abrupt firing of Comey. He knows more now - and thinks he can manage it solo. Mostly because he's still in, "This is my organization, and I take care of problems!" mode. He isnt grasping that Washington is NOT his, that while he occupies the Oval, he has no institutional networks, or relevant experience, and most certainly not the humility to recognize how much he has to learn - from the very people he vilifies and/or keeps tossing under the buses.
IMO, he's dangerous because he fails to grasp his own weaknesses, and that's a recipe for epic mistake making. Something we'd expect from a 20-something, not a 70yo.
2
I wholeheartedly disagree and find this to be a lazy editorial where comparisons between the Nixon, Reagan, Clinton and evolving Trump scandals are not explored but just asserted. Where is the logic in the argument put forward in this editorial? It appears to be that only smart people like Nixon can actually go down. Apparently, Reagan and Trump escape culpability by virtue of questionable intellect. They can't possibly be depicted as "masterminds" of illegal activity. Is that what needs to be proven to impeach a president? If so, it would explain why only a sex act resulted in an actual impeachment. When Americans exclaim in large numbers that they are ready for an impeachment of Trump for what will quite likely turn out to be obstruction of justice and collusion charges, I doubt they are interested in your calculations as to how Republicans in the House would vote. They are using the term more broadly. Change the title of your editorial to "Forced Resignation? Maybe So." And, give us the real low down on the alleged crimes and misdemeanors of Trump as compared to Nixon. The latter attacked the opposing party. Trump seems to have sold out our country.
3
I don't know. From where I'm standing, Trump is looking very impeachable on multiple, effectively ADMITTED counts of obstruction of justice.
5
If the biggest difference involved the burglary of the DNC and its aftermath, we should consider the fact that no burglary was necessary in this case because of the Russian hacks. The hackers may be beyond our jurisdiction, but determining the involvement of Trump's campaign with them will be critical.
2
There are many opinion pieces and comments suggesting that this is not at the Watergate level. Really?
The clarity of justice obstruction in the Watergate era is undeniable. Such clarity is not yet present in Comey/Russia-gate. But the underlying issues are far more grave. Watergate revealed a corrupt administration, but they were covering up petty political crime, not a massive and very dangerous international scandal that could destabilize America and the world.
The current situation dwarfs Watergate. We're looking at it from the wrong perspective.
The clarity of justice obstruction in the Watergate era is undeniable. Such clarity is not yet present in Comey/Russia-gate. But the underlying issues are far more grave. Watergate revealed a corrupt administration, but they were covering up petty political crime, not a massive and very dangerous international scandal that could destabilize America and the world.
The current situation dwarfs Watergate. We're looking at it from the wrong perspective.
4
Are you kidding? The only reason that Watergate shouldn't be compared to the current situation is that Watergate was a parking violation compared to this. Besides, while I despise Nixon historically, I also have a certain grudging respect for him - as a self-made, massively capable individual whose ability to carry out the duties was never in question. Like him or not, Nixon was a president.
Impeachment and the 25th amendment are the tools we have, and they were designed for situations like this. Power is as power does, and when the tide finally turns, the details will get worked out. Hopefully in such a way as to flush out Pence right along with Trump. Pence is every bit as corrupt and illegitimate as everyone else in the whole creepy cabal, and we must not stand by and watch while he slides in there, high-fiving with McConnell and Ryan.
Impeachment and the 25th amendment are the tools we have, and they were designed for situations like this. Power is as power does, and when the tide finally turns, the details will get worked out. Hopefully in such a way as to flush out Pence right along with Trump. Pence is every bit as corrupt and illegitimate as everyone else in the whole creepy cabal, and we must not stand by and watch while he slides in there, high-fiving with McConnell and Ryan.
I disagree with the view of the NYT editorial board, the main thrust of which is that impeachment depends on a finding of criminality "on a monumental scale" and that, therefore, Democrats should cool it with impeachment talk, focusing instead on Trump's low polling numbers and winning a Congressional majority in 2018.
1. Violation of criminal law is not a prerequisite to impeachment. Trump has revealed highly classified information to the Russians, has sought to stop an ongoing FBI investigation and has admitted the firing of Comey was motivated by the failure of that effort. We can debate whether these are impeachable offenses, but talk of impeachment is certainly warranted.
2. Assuming Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time, they can do all the things the editorial board would have them do, without being silent on impeachment.
3. Talk of impeachment is peeling away some Republicans from unquestioning party loyalty, getting the public used to the idea should the facts warrant it, and hobbling the Republican agenda promoted by Ryan and McConnell, most of which is harmful or downright vicious.
4. Not least, judging by some readers'comments, this editorial has encouraged some Trump supporters and some die-hard Bernie Bros to lash out (again) against the news media and against the Democrats and "the Left," calling them unhinged McCarthyites obsessed with Russia. These people can get their say on the op ed page. They do not merit a NYT editorial boost.
1. Violation of criminal law is not a prerequisite to impeachment. Trump has revealed highly classified information to the Russians, has sought to stop an ongoing FBI investigation and has admitted the firing of Comey was motivated by the failure of that effort. We can debate whether these are impeachable offenses, but talk of impeachment is certainly warranted.
2. Assuming Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time, they can do all the things the editorial board would have them do, without being silent on impeachment.
3. Talk of impeachment is peeling away some Republicans from unquestioning party loyalty, getting the public used to the idea should the facts warrant it, and hobbling the Republican agenda promoted by Ryan and McConnell, most of which is harmful or downright vicious.
4. Not least, judging by some readers'comments, this editorial has encouraged some Trump supporters and some die-hard Bernie Bros to lash out (again) against the news media and against the Democrats and "the Left," calling them unhinged McCarthyites obsessed with Russia. These people can get their say on the op ed page. They do not merit a NYT editorial boost.
4
There no parallel between Watergate and the present “mess.” Richard Nixon was threaten with impeachment not because he fired special prosecutor Archibald Cox but because Oval Office tapes revealed he instructed his subordinates to lie to federal investigators about their role in the Watergate burglary. Five operative paid by the Nixon reelection campaign were caught breaking into DNC headquarters. In Watergate, there was a crime to cover up.
In the present mess, there appears to be no crime to cover up. The intelligence community assessment concluded Putin’s vendetta against Hillary Clinton began long before Trump became a presidential candidate. It dates to 2011 when as U.S. secretary of state Hillary accused Putin of rigging Russia’s parliamentary elections. He accused her of inciting riots in Moscow. Asked why Russia preferred Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, FBI Director James Comey answered: “The intelligence communities' assessment had a couple of parts with respect to that. One is he wasn't Hillary Clinton, who Putin hated and wanted to harm in any possible way, and so he was her opponent, so necessarily they supported him.” No collusion was required. However, Putin’s support cost Trump votes. Hillary made it a major talking point in debates and in her campaign speeches.
In the present mess, there appears to be no crime to cover up. The intelligence community assessment concluded Putin’s vendetta against Hillary Clinton began long before Trump became a presidential candidate. It dates to 2011 when as U.S. secretary of state Hillary accused Putin of rigging Russia’s parliamentary elections. He accused her of inciting riots in Moscow. Asked why Russia preferred Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, FBI Director James Comey answered: “The intelligence communities' assessment had a couple of parts with respect to that. One is he wasn't Hillary Clinton, who Putin hated and wanted to harm in any possible way, and so he was her opponent, so necessarily they supported him.” No collusion was required. However, Putin’s support cost Trump votes. Hillary made it a major talking point in debates and in her campaign speeches.
3
"The unfolding of the unforseen"-from "The Plot Against America" by Philip Roth
Keep don trump on the ropes. Communicate with those who voted for the gambling casino operator not with hatred and anger but with keeping in touch with people who voted for him and understanding where they're coming from. It is not a simple answer such as 'because they watch Fox News'. There are complex economic and social threads running here. Organize, listen and read alternative press. Donate to the Times and the Washington Post. Donate to alternative radio like Pacifica and shows like Background Briefing. Keep the pressure on your democratic leaders to overturn Citizens United so our election process is not based on legalized bribery. Organize for 2018 starting today.
Keep don trump on the ropes. Communicate with those who voted for the gambling casino operator not with hatred and anger but with keeping in touch with people who voted for him and understanding where they're coming from. It is not a simple answer such as 'because they watch Fox News'. There are complex economic and social threads running here. Organize, listen and read alternative press. Donate to the Times and the Washington Post. Donate to alternative radio like Pacifica and shows like Background Briefing. Keep the pressure on your democratic leaders to overturn Citizens United so our election process is not based on legalized bribery. Organize for 2018 starting today.
1
If Trump is compromised, we have to know what the Russians know about campaign collusion. The country is not safe with a compromised president.
2
Nixon was a crook. Trump and many members of his administration may well be traitors. Somehow I see quite a difference and Trump isn't looking very good by comparison to Nixon. After all, Nixon was only a crook, not a traitor.
4
40% of the nation believes Trump didn't do anything wrong and believe he is a attack dummy of the liberal media- still holding a post election grudge. These people don't see facts- they watch Fox News for their information and no matter where this investigation leads they will still support him. Hillary never should have used the term "basket of deplorable's. Much like the propaganda tactics Fox News regularly employs- negative words wield uncanny power and strike a cord for positive and negative results. It's easier to divide than unite and Hillary is just as responsible for Trump's faithful 40% than Trump himself.
1
Admitting obstruction of justice in his meeting with the Russians the Don is testing the limits of his power. Giving him a pass on fhat opens the door to his goal of absolute power and tyranny.
3
Yes, it is far to soon to call for impeachment. Yes, you are right that the number one job for democrats is to begin the process of winning back Congress. Yes, there are similarities to Watergate, but this scandal and corruption has a different smell to it.
Impeachment now would leave Mike Pence in the presidency and he would be far worse than t rump for the future of this Nation.
Nixon was a seasoned politician with allies and friends in the Congress and Washington. t rump has only the base that republicans have come to depend on for elections the last few decades and that base is shrinking.
I will be delighted to watch t rump become the only recognizable face of the republican party and it is fitting because without the racist, misogynistic, hate fueled old confederate pandering republicans wouldn't have a majority anywhere in the Nation.
t rump ran on the premise that only he could fix all the horrible huge problems that only he could see. republicans own him and they own the corruption that oozes out of his white house.
Impeachment now would leave Mike Pence in the presidency and he would be far worse than t rump for the future of this Nation.
Nixon was a seasoned politician with allies and friends in the Congress and Washington. t rump has only the base that republicans have come to depend on for elections the last few decades and that base is shrinking.
I will be delighted to watch t rump become the only recognizable face of the republican party and it is fitting because without the racist, misogynistic, hate fueled old confederate pandering republicans wouldn't have a majority anywhere in the Nation.
t rump ran on the premise that only he could fix all the horrible huge problems that only he could see. republicans own him and they own the corruption that oozes out of his white house.
1
basically, the commentariat is saying --
I'm so upset. HRC didn't win.
So, I'll do anything to over turn the election results and get rid of the duly elected president.
Impeach, 25th amendment, I don't care. I don't really care if Donald has done anything illegal, and certainly if Obama had done the same thing, it wouldn't be illegal, but I've got special rules for people I don't like.
So, yeah, maybe the Russians hacked the DNC, and probably didn't cause any harm. Possible (anything is) Trump helped (I hear he's a really good programmer) and yeah, I hate Comey but I'll use any excuse. The enemy of my enemy is my bubba. Ok, sure, his e-mails to himself are hearsay. Me no care.
Me want HRC or Bernie Bernie Bernie.
The commentariat.
I'm so upset. HRC didn't win.
So, I'll do anything to over turn the election results and get rid of the duly elected president.
Impeach, 25th amendment, I don't care. I don't really care if Donald has done anything illegal, and certainly if Obama had done the same thing, it wouldn't be illegal, but I've got special rules for people I don't like.
So, yeah, maybe the Russians hacked the DNC, and probably didn't cause any harm. Possible (anything is) Trump helped (I hear he's a really good programmer) and yeah, I hate Comey but I'll use any excuse. The enemy of my enemy is my bubba. Ok, sure, his e-mails to himself are hearsay. Me no care.
Me want HRC or Bernie Bernie Bernie.
The commentariat.
5
Nixon was flawed but shrewd, racked by guilt, the desire to do right, mixed with the struggle to overpower his enemies. Trump has no conscience and no self awareness (a narcissist), and continues to do a number of things he feels he has the right to do-- continued lying, spreading lies, threatening govt officials, doing "deals"... and obstructing justice.
His appalling performance with the Russians the day after firing Comey-- admitting that he got rid of the "nut job" Comey to take the pressure off of him-- in itself will be subject to criminal prosecution for obstruction of justice. Official WH documents confirm it, material evidence. Treason would be a stretch at this point, but give Trump a little more time, and he's bound to commit it. He's like the boy thief who gets caught, but thinks he deserved whatever he stole. And he just can't help himself from stealing again. We all wait, watch and listen.
His appalling performance with the Russians the day after firing Comey-- admitting that he got rid of the "nut job" Comey to take the pressure off of him-- in itself will be subject to criminal prosecution for obstruction of justice. Official WH documents confirm it, material evidence. Treason would be a stretch at this point, but give Trump a little more time, and he's bound to commit it. He's like the boy thief who gets caught, but thinks he deserved whatever he stole. And he just can't help himself from stealing again. We all wait, watch and listen.
1
Unfortunately the public is afraid to speak truth to power. Everyone is afraid of their shadow. The public and the Congress particular Republican leadership must grow a backbone. ...If Hillary had been elected by the electoral college and accomplished a quarter of the craziness Donald has done she would already have been impeached. "Still, it remains to be seen whether the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, and House Speaker Paul Ryan are committed to truth seeking, with its potential cost for the Republican Party." Republican enablers are ruining are country. Our country's second biggest problem is a person from Kentucky McConnell. And guess who put him in the Senate.......... “He was 40 points behind with two months to go,” Cross said. “ they put up this hound dog ad and it made people laugh.” McConnell hired Ailes to jumpstart his campaign and the move paid off — Ailes convinced McConnell to run the now-legendary ads, which featured a team of bloodhounds searching for Huddleston . The Congressional leadership must grow a backbone and put country before party. But Trump has created an entirely new problem for Congress, the courts and agencies: What do they do when the president himself is the pressing danger? Unlike other presidents, Mr. Trump has lacked basic competence to manage the government. Republicans please put country before party !
2
True. They are currently dismantling net neutrality, fir one.
1
I beg to differ. YES, we ARE there and to suggest otherwise is utter nonsense. When you consider the determination with which the GOP went after Clinton on a puny charge of lying about sex with an intern, for anyone to suggest that trump is not ripe for impeachment on account of his multiple treasonous acts is either in denial or simply lying, take your pick.
2
"Watergate? We’re Not There Yet" is cowardly.
After all the dreranged hoopla this paper has fomented concerning the personality of Trump using a few clear missteps on his part, it finds it must back off; but rather than a truthful "This is No Watergate" we get the cowardly "... Not There Yet." It's pitiful that news source of this prestige is so cheap and underhanded. Yes it's backed itself into a corner on Trump, no it does not have to ignore that fact. I voted for Clinton.
After all the dreranged hoopla this paper has fomented concerning the personality of Trump using a few clear missteps on his part, it finds it must back off; but rather than a truthful "This is No Watergate" we get the cowardly "... Not There Yet." It's pitiful that news source of this prestige is so cheap and underhanded. Yes it's backed itself into a corner on Trump, no it does not have to ignore that fact. I voted for Clinton.
5
Thomas Paine said: "When opinions are free (either in matters of government or religion) true will finally and powerfully prevail." Now, it is up to the American people to work on better opinions about Trump's presidency.
We need the best ideas to move forward, not backward with the presidency. Ideas can be developed, now. We don't have to wait for the next election.
==========================================================
Why "wait for Godot"? Seek out the best ideas and put them on the web, in books, in speeches, in classrooms, right now?
We need the best ideas to move forward, not backward with the presidency. Ideas can be developed, now. We don't have to wait for the next election.
==========================================================
Why "wait for Godot"? Seek out the best ideas and put them on the web, in books, in speeches, in classrooms, right now?
Liberals see the President colluding with the Russians in the election and firing Comey to cover up the collusion. I see a President who made a campaign promise to work with the Russians if possible, who personally had nothing to do with any collusion, and who fired Comey because he was incompetent and getting in the way of his campaign promise and agenda...which was perfectly legal for a President to do. The special prosecutor will tell us which version is the truth.
4
As Laurence Tribe (Harvard Constitutional law authority) said, "If firing Comes is not obstruction of justice, then the term is empty of meaning." (or words to this effect)
3
I agree that it is impossible to impeach Donald Trump. It would be very helpful if the New York Times were to assign some of its hot new young staff to explain why they Democratic Party fails to attract any really attractive, viable candidates.
Is it the party hierarchy which is so tone deaf to voters' concerns in many swing states?
Is it the aging stable of old Giants like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, and even Chuck Shumer who are just too old to appeal to young voters - and who have benefited financially so much from the current system that they are not anxious to rock the boat too much - where were they when Obama appointed all the Goldman Sachs guys to "punish" the bankers who destroyed the economy in 2008?
Is it because there so much money and digital monitoring is required to run any successful campaign n the face of bots o antisocial media? The fact that politics is seen only as a system of legalized bribery (which is what it is)?
Republicans have already destroyed the ethics of the American political system. Promising, smart young people want no part of it. They don't realize that it will bring them down if they don't hold it up!
The NY Times and the WaPo seem to have hot young stables of great, energetic, smart, fearless reporters. Why don't they wrote stories about the good that some Democrats and Republicans accomplish in office? We can read books like Kirsten Gillibrand's bio - but those can be self-serving (like Obama's two bio's before he ran.)
Is it the party hierarchy which is so tone deaf to voters' concerns in many swing states?
Is it the aging stable of old Giants like Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein, and even Chuck Shumer who are just too old to appeal to young voters - and who have benefited financially so much from the current system that they are not anxious to rock the boat too much - where were they when Obama appointed all the Goldman Sachs guys to "punish" the bankers who destroyed the economy in 2008?
Is it because there so much money and digital monitoring is required to run any successful campaign n the face of bots o antisocial media? The fact that politics is seen only as a system of legalized bribery (which is what it is)?
Republicans have already destroyed the ethics of the American political system. Promising, smart young people want no part of it. They don't realize that it will bring them down if they don't hold it up!
The NY Times and the WaPo seem to have hot young stables of great, energetic, smart, fearless reporters. Why don't they wrote stories about the good that some Democrats and Republicans accomplish in office? We can read books like Kirsten Gillibrand's bio - but those can be self-serving (like Obama's two bio's before he ran.)
2
Is it possible for Congress to do their jobs? Create a budget and stick to it; even it some are not pleased? Can we for one minute start to actually do something in DC or is obstruction the only activity that they can perform? I'm sick of DC, sick of divisiveness, and totally over fake news - fake news from both the NYTimes and conservative talk show hosts.
2
To the other commenters, I might have to check my notes but I'm guessing Iran-Contra was like not just a domestic issue either. This is still junk because it lets Republicans off way too easy. If the NYT can't demand patriotism or just general accountability from Republicans maybe they should scale back their VR efforts and refocus on newspaper journalism. Basic law isn't re-determined in elections every 2 years, our constitution and the foundation of democracy require that all politicians share in accountability and yada yada yada.
1
Indeed, we are 'not there yet', but the flood of revelations regarding Flynn (foreign agent) and Comey (memos), to say nothing of what we have yet to learn regarding Manafort and others in the President's campaign and his transition team, may get us 'there' before the mid-term elections. If there is anything predictable regarding this administration, it is that there is much more to come, and no one, not even the venerable NYTs, can predict where we will be in a day, a week, or a month.
2
Let the evidence lead where it may- Trump is a perpetual train wreck and will ultimately point to his removal from office- by legal means or by the midterms which will put him in a tight box.
2
Times readers, Clinton voters, and other assorted Trump haters:
Unfortunately for you, this entire Comey/FBI/Russia/Flynn thing is ultimately going to amount to nothing. Real damage, however, is going to be inflicted on the Democrats' in the form of further losses in 2018 and likely re-election of Mr Trump in 2020.
Trump voters out in flyover country and elsewhere have duly noted how Democrats and the media have behaved, particularly since Mr Trump was elected, and they are not inclined to vote differently in 2018 and 2020 based on what they've seen.
Impeachment of Mr Trump is not going to happen. What is far more likely to happen than impeachment is that Mr Trump will be your president all the way to January 20, 2025.
Sincerely,
A deplorable Times reader
Flyover, TX
Unfortunately for you, this entire Comey/FBI/Russia/Flynn thing is ultimately going to amount to nothing. Real damage, however, is going to be inflicted on the Democrats' in the form of further losses in 2018 and likely re-election of Mr Trump in 2020.
Trump voters out in flyover country and elsewhere have duly noted how Democrats and the media have behaved, particularly since Mr Trump was elected, and they are not inclined to vote differently in 2018 and 2020 based on what they've seen.
Impeachment of Mr Trump is not going to happen. What is far more likely to happen than impeachment is that Mr Trump will be your president all the way to January 20, 2025.
Sincerely,
A deplorable Times reader
Flyover, TX
Actually, its much worse than Watergate. We have a so called President beholden to a foreign dictator. This is Benedict Arnold territory.
5
There's no need for a deuce ex machina along the lines of an Oval Office recording since Trump seems content on personally confirming his every illegality the morning after his staff lies for him.
3
The Republicans have subpoena power and if they had a shred of Patriotism, courage and decency they would use these on all of the President's staff and Cabinet members. And perhaps Impeachment is to gentle a word Perhaps Treason is the word that should be mentioned. I think that is what consorting with the enemy is called. In this case that would be Russia, as Mitt Romney so astutely mentioned.
2
Every week, every day, Trump is revealed to be a man incapable of learning to become the president of the U.S. He is what he always has been, a sleazy, lying, insecure, conman. The extravagant welcome that he received in Saudi Arabia is a 'thanks for all the weapons!', 'thanks for hating Iran too Pres. Trump', 'thanks for not mentioning our terrible human rights & womens' rights way of life here.' and ' a really big thanks for not bringing up our country's hijackers murdering Americans on 9/11!' The Saudi's love gaudy exhibitions of their wealth and keeping power in the family just like Trump. This Trump administration couldn't be farther from representing my America. If a president can so flagrantly abuse his power, threaten people, lie, have so many conflicts of interest, and not be impeached, then we are not the great democracy that we have always believed we are.
3
Trump has always got away with his tricks by setting up a kind of byzantine shell game. He has hundreds of interlocking companies, many in the name of others. Hence the eternal audit by an understaffed IRS. Mueller will have the resources to look into everything. Some of Trump's ventures, most notably in Azerbaijan, already do not pass the smell-test--the family he was allied to was involved with laundering Iranian money, which makes Trump's indignation about that country sound a little hollow. I am convinced that scrutiny of the President's past will reveal the skeletons in the closet. It's going to be a long process and highly destructive if the president's already limited ability to actually govern.
3
Geoffrey, you've just outlined impeachment proceedings for the entire corporate capitalist component of this country. Way to go, I nominate you as special prosecutor.
1
The only "reason" we are not there is because Trump supporters are still supporting him.
Trump is clearly violating the emoluments clause. So far no one has argued that you have to have "corruptly" taken foreign gifts.
Trump has obstructed justice. He admits he fired Comey because of the "phony" Russian thing. Of course if it is phony obstructing it , it would not matter, but it is not up to him to decide that.
On the original matter, collusion with Russian, it is apparent it is not phony at all. What was once seen to the public as far fetched is likely to be true. Flynn takes money from Russians and Turkey and changes foreign policy on arming the Kurds. Even if that isn't the charge the fact that he did not register is. Manafort ,Page, Stone, maybe even Sessions, Pence and Jarred? Tying this directly to Trump will be a bit harder, but it appears Trump knew Flynn was dirty yet kept him on. What if he was still there! Would we need proof beyond what Flynn was doing and that Trump was allowing it to continue.
The real question is the FBI/DOJ investigation back on track so that these can proceed in an orderly fashion, and keep congress from granting immunity too early. Luckily several cases are already underway, and it would be hard for Trump to stop those, though I suppose the charges could be dropped.
We may look back at some point and say it is too late for impeachment?
Trump is clearly violating the emoluments clause. So far no one has argued that you have to have "corruptly" taken foreign gifts.
Trump has obstructed justice. He admits he fired Comey because of the "phony" Russian thing. Of course if it is phony obstructing it , it would not matter, but it is not up to him to decide that.
On the original matter, collusion with Russian, it is apparent it is not phony at all. What was once seen to the public as far fetched is likely to be true. Flynn takes money from Russians and Turkey and changes foreign policy on arming the Kurds. Even if that isn't the charge the fact that he did not register is. Manafort ,Page, Stone, maybe even Sessions, Pence and Jarred? Tying this directly to Trump will be a bit harder, but it appears Trump knew Flynn was dirty yet kept him on. What if he was still there! Would we need proof beyond what Flynn was doing and that Trump was allowing it to continue.
The real question is the FBI/DOJ investigation back on track so that these can proceed in an orderly fashion, and keep congress from granting immunity too early. Luckily several cases are already underway, and it would be hard for Trump to stop those, though I suppose the charges could be dropped.
We may look back at some point and say it is too late for impeachment?
3
Take a deep breath people. Trump won the election, get used to it. I have, and I wish him the best for all of America and all of its wonderful people.
5
Firing the FBI Director for investigating your campaign and being unwilling to take a personal oath of loyalty is every bit as onerous as paying a million dollar bribe. It's abusing the office of the president and using the threat of Director Comey's career itself as an instrument of attempted bribery. Mr. Trump has apparently demanded a similar overt loyalty oath of all his staffers and cabinet members. This oath itself is also an extra-constitutional abuse of the office, unless it includes a clause that clearly states these public servants must always place their oath to uphold the constitution and laws of the United States above any personal loyalty to president. President Trump has pushed, prodded and attempted to establish authority that he is not legally entitled to from day one. Oh yes, we are very deep into Watergate territory here.
32
As a registered Democrat I have to say that the Democrats in Congress, following up on historically clumsy, inept and unsuccessful 2016 campaigns for the White House and for Senate and House seats, continue to harp on Mr. Trump's unfitness for office. That point has been made, most Americans agree, and it is up to Mr. Mueller to flesh it out and to pursue it wherever his investigation leads. Now the Democrats need to do what they did not do in 2016: to explain and sell to an average voter a coherent and convincing Democratic vision for how to improve the economy and get people back to good paying jobs, how to fix heath care, how to upgrade America's infrastructure, and how to confront international problems and to improve America's position around the World. If they really want to take back Congress they need to GET SERIOUS.
6
How do we know ?
The era of Watergate was a slow burning, multi year affair that began with ''dirty tricks'', got going going with a break in and culminated with a resignation a couple of years later. In between their was a dogged press ( not conglomerate driven as it is today ) that ''followed the money '' .
We are but a few scant months into this and already there are glaring conflicts of interest that would rise ( at any other time in history ) to at the very least starting impeachment proceedings.
The only difference between now and then, is now we have republicans that put party over country, and then it was the reverse.
The era of Watergate was a slow burning, multi year affair that began with ''dirty tricks'', got going going with a break in and culminated with a resignation a couple of years later. In between their was a dogged press ( not conglomerate driven as it is today ) that ''followed the money '' .
We are but a few scant months into this and already there are glaring conflicts of interest that would rise ( at any other time in history ) to at the very least starting impeachment proceedings.
The only difference between now and then, is now we have republicans that put party over country, and then it was the reverse.
4
I doubt that I'm the only one worried that IF the president is ousted by impeachment, his hard-core supporters might react violently --- and many of them are armed to the teeth. I'd like to see the NYT try to calm the waters with a campaign of which this editorial may be a part.
1
I agree with the conclusion of the Editorial.
Impeachment is a quintessentially political act. When Gerald Ford was in Congress he said an impeachable offense "is whatever the House of Representatives says it is." He might have added..."and the Senate by two thirds vote agrees."
I was involved in the Impeachment movement when Richard Nixon was President introducing I F "Izzy" Stone at an Impeachment Rally behind the White
House. When Nixon ultimately resigned in August of 1974 his Job Approval Rating according to Gallup was 23%. Trump's Job Approval is around 38% and probably will get a minor bump as a result of his present trip.
When Trump comes home and continues to demonstrate his dishonesty and incompetence his Job Approval will work its way down below 28%, say around August of this year, Republicans will turn on him and Impeachment will be possible.
Fasten your seat belts.
http://www.wednesdayswars.com
Impeachment is a quintessentially political act. When Gerald Ford was in Congress he said an impeachable offense "is whatever the House of Representatives says it is." He might have added..."and the Senate by two thirds vote agrees."
I was involved in the Impeachment movement when Richard Nixon was President introducing I F "Izzy" Stone at an Impeachment Rally behind the White
House. When Nixon ultimately resigned in August of 1974 his Job Approval Rating according to Gallup was 23%. Trump's Job Approval is around 38% and probably will get a minor bump as a result of his present trip.
When Trump comes home and continues to demonstrate his dishonesty and incompetence his Job Approval will work its way down below 28%, say around August of this year, Republicans will turn on him and Impeachment will be possible.
Fasten your seat belts.
http://www.wednesdayswars.com
2
Not only are we not there yet, we are not going to get there
Do you honestly think that this President, who is lining the corporate war chests with nearly unimaginable additional wealth, will have anyone of them turn on him. If anything, you will find his popularity start to increase, as NAFTA is renegotiated, and other agreements get hard looks.
And the people, the economic slaves, will benefit incrementally, just as has always been, no matter the party in power, continuing to bow and pray to the neon god they made, and the sign flashed out its warning in the words that it was forming, and the sign said:
"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls, and whispered in the sound of silence."
Do you honestly think that this President, who is lining the corporate war chests with nearly unimaginable additional wealth, will have anyone of them turn on him. If anything, you will find his popularity start to increase, as NAFTA is renegotiated, and other agreements get hard looks.
And the people, the economic slaves, will benefit incrementally, just as has always been, no matter the party in power, continuing to bow and pray to the neon god they made, and the sign flashed out its warning in the words that it was forming, and the sign said:
"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement halls, and whispered in the sound of silence."
2
I leave it to constitutional scholars to seek grounds for Trump's impeachment. To me, his boorishness, abusive language, and disrespect of the elementary dress code are sufficient grounds to return him back to his world of financial manipulations. As to his disregard of the dress code: on the visit to Ryad, he wore a tie that descended below the belt and his coat was unbuttoned. By comparison to him, his wife's attire looked excellent.
1
What trump and his administration have been and are doing is worse than Watergate. Nixon was cunning, paranoid and tried through illegal acts to destroy his political enemies, and thwart any investigation into his abuses. But nixon new what the truth and the facts were, even if he chose to not follow the law.
Trump borders on the insane. The "truth" is what he says it is no matter how false or idiotic his claims. He's totally delusional.
He and his minions are destroying the country on multiple levels, and trump himself is so obviously mentally and emotionally unstable he could unleash a nuclear war over some slight that enrages him to the point he pushes the button. Nixon wasn't that far gone.
It is also inevitable that at some point the unfit one will be caught on tape doing something illegal & lying about it, and no amount of bombast, spin, claims of fake news, bullying, tweeting or other meaningless attempts at justification of his actions will stop a criminal charge from being pursued by Congress or other true patriots if the repubs don't grow up. Our country is at stake here, he's got to be removed.
Trump borders on the insane. The "truth" is what he says it is no matter how false or idiotic his claims. He's totally delusional.
He and his minions are destroying the country on multiple levels, and trump himself is so obviously mentally and emotionally unstable he could unleash a nuclear war over some slight that enrages him to the point he pushes the button. Nixon wasn't that far gone.
It is also inevitable that at some point the unfit one will be caught on tape doing something illegal & lying about it, and no amount of bombast, spin, claims of fake news, bullying, tweeting or other meaningless attempts at justification of his actions will stop a criminal charge from being pursued by Congress or other true patriots if the repubs don't grow up. Our country is at stake here, he's got to be removed.
2
Unless and until Trump's base begins to desert him, talk of impeachment is foolish. If impeached while he still held the trust of his base, Trump would never go away. He would be all over the media whining about being the greatest victim of all time, treated with more unfairness than any other person ever. And Pence would be in the White House.
If Trump is going to be impeached, it needs to be done in such a way that only his most fervent reality-denying fans remain. An impeached president is one who must slink away in disgrace toward oblivion, not one given a platform to harangue us incessantly.
If Trump is going to be impeached, it needs to be done in such a way that only his most fervent reality-denying fans remain. An impeached president is one who must slink away in disgrace toward oblivion, not one given a platform to harangue us incessantly.
1
I said I would give him four years...but now I don't think he'll make it to 2018. But it's difficult and hard to impeach a president. If it does happen, the dems will benefit, but the Trump supporters will object and it will be on Fox News, radio and the internet. It will be a constant cry of suppression of their votes and ideas. And if a dem is the next president? You can bet that a GOP House/Senate will have multiple investigations going on.
1
We're waiting for "breaking and entering", are we?
The Times's prior political calculation of supporting Hillary, while trashing any possibility of a Sanders presidency, is arguably why we're in this mess.
So perhaps we need to reboot both the U.S. presidency and your political calculator.
The Times's prior political calculation of supporting Hillary, while trashing any possibility of a Sanders presidency, is arguably why we're in this mess.
So perhaps we need to reboot both the U.S. presidency and your political calculator.
4
I agree with your editorial that the goal should not be impeachment, but rather gear up for a win at the polls next year. Were Trump to be impeached, his followers would claim that he was stopped from Making America Great Again by the rigged politics in Washington. Defeating him by regaining a majority in either or both houses of congress would send a clear message that he has no mandate and his policies are unpopular.
21
Impeachment isn't going to happen. Mueller will keep his investigation tight and complete but entirely within the box set by his guidelines. He isn't out to examine Trump's financial improprieties and money laundering. A few of Trump's minions may fall, and may splash some mud on Trump, but nothing rising to high crimes and misdemeanors.
3
In addition to a majority vote in the House, it will take 67 votes in the Senate. That requires about 20 Republican Senators to flip. That won't happen until the Republicans get, or exhaust, all efforts to enact tax and ACA reform. By then the damage the Democrats want to avoid will probably be done. And they'll face Mike Pence instead of a weakened Trump in 2020. All this to assuage Hillary and her campaign's embarrassment over losing to such an incompetent candidate. What's the point politically? Nothing else to do, I guess when your completely locked out of power.
2
I disagree. This is worse than Watergate. The president's horrible transgressions are rubbed in our faces daily. Perhaps this makes some people think it's just politics. It's not. It's the psychopath's way of mesmerizing us to become his victims. Trump's lies and machinations get bigger by the moment and that's the trap. Once a victim accepts one small lie, then another, and another, they are prepped to accept bigger and bigger lies. Eventually they will do anything the crook s is classic textbook social psychology. He's not mentally ill. Trump's a psychopath. He is clearly not fit to be president, but worse. As we debate whether this is "Watergate" territory, this malignant narcissist is destroying our democracy.
4
The blazing inferno of "resistance" will snuff itself out when the impeachment movement fails to materialize. Reactionaries now demand Trump's head on a platter - they'll shift to wanting moderate Democrat heads for failure to make this happen. What will be left is a hodgepodge of extremist partisans, who won't appeal to everyday Americans. Thus, the Democratic Party will be marginalized for decades to come.
4
Even if this is not Watergate, the fact that Bill Clinton was impeached for perjuring himself about sex with an intern nonetheless makes it seem that circumstances can arise where Trump, like Clinton is called to testify under oath. The man will lie the first time he opens his mouth, not about a simple private matter, but everything large and small. Could not impeachment follow from his inevitable perjury if called to testify? (If we had a responsible Congress, and all realize that this is the linchpin to impeachment).
1
WHEN the evidence is collected RUSSIAGATE will dwarf Watergate because RUSSIAGATE involves treason and crimes, whereas Watergate just involved crimes. We do not have ALL the evidence yet, Benedict Donald, but we WILL! And Richard Nixon will be happy.
4
Let Mr. Muller do his stuff and leave it alone until he has some answers. By all accounts, he will take the investigation where the evidence leads, and brook no interference from either party.
If we had more like him in Washington, we wouldn't be in this mess now.
If we had more like him in Washington, we wouldn't be in this mess now.
3
How can politicians in Washington have such short memories? In a few short years there will again be a Democratic majority in both house of Congress. What goes around comes back around. To blindly defend this dysfunctional Trump administration will not be forgotten by the voters so quickly.
1
My recollection of Watergate -- apart from the riveting hearings -- was the glacial pace of progress. The break-in of the Democratic National Headquarters happened in June, well before the election. What was apparent then is that politicians of all stripes -- and the media -- were so "cautious" that Nixon won re-election handily.
A bit less caution would have spared us impeachment and criminal charges against White House defenders.
Today, just months into the Trump Administration, it's clear the President surrounded himself with people connected to Russia, its politics and its money. It's also certain Russians did and continue to meddle in our political institutions and processes.
If this investigation goes as others have, Robert Mueller won't produce a report for years -- well into the 2020 election cycle.
Save caution for criminal prosecution; for politics, let's see some action.
A bit less caution would have spared us impeachment and criminal charges against White House defenders.
Today, just months into the Trump Administration, it's clear the President surrounded himself with people connected to Russia, its politics and its money. It's also certain Russians did and continue to meddle in our political institutions and processes.
If this investigation goes as others have, Robert Mueller won't produce a report for years -- well into the 2020 election cycle.
Save caution for criminal prosecution; for politics, let's see some action.
2
"...Mr. Trump's and his enablers' sorry deeds." Could you be a little more specific and enumerate what you're talking about?
1
Yes, impeachment is a fever-dream fantasy of our crazed left wing, which simply can't accept the election results. First there were the street riots, then the "recount," then the attempt to intimidate the electoral college, and now "impeachment." If the Left and the Democrats can't get a grip on themselves, and face the political reality that conservative politics is winning a lot of votes - for the Presidency, for Congress, for the Senate, for governorships and state legislatures - they will continue to lose races. Do Democrats have any political message at all for the country, other than "we hate Trump?" Unless they find one - and one that appeals to most of the country, not just their own cheering sections in East/West coast liberal enclaves - they will keep losing. And stop pleading, "but Hillary won the popular vote." Popular votes don't win the Presidency in this country, and besides, the only reason Hillary won the popular vote is that Trump has a big mouth and is a bit of a nut. Any other Republican - Marco Rubio, for example - would have taken the popular vote, too.
4
Until the media (MSM and Fox News etc., alike) stop treating the elections as a wrestling match between two prize fighters and start treating it with the seriousness it deserves, we will have the divisions we see now. But are they real? I believe that most Americans are politically somewhat middle of the road, and that they want decent health care for all, a roof above their heads and enough income to raise their families and be taken care of decently in their old age, Democrats, Republicans and Independents alike.
1
The board, like the rest of impeachment posse, has suddenly awakened to this possibility: a precipitous effort that fails could lead to Trump being inoculated against other efforts. It might even lead to a reversal of fortune for Trump. "Nothing," Churchill said, "is more invigorating than being shot at--and missed."
4
We're way beyond Watergate. If any collusion between Russia and associates of Trump, or Trump himself, is found to exist, Watergate will not compare. We're speaking of the interference of a foreign power, an enemy, in our democratic process. Nothing could be more serious, more dangerous to the foundations of this democracy, and ignoring it would set a precedent that could further wrest control of who we choose to lead us, as if the involvement of corporations and lobbyists didn't make it precarious already.
The Times, reestablishing itself as the "Limousine Liberal" paper of record, is suggesting "we're not there yet". How unengaging can they be. Instead of reciting a litany of differences from 40 years ago, let's learn from our mistakes, and suggest a roadmap to cleanse our republic of this mistake. Make it clear to Republicans that should they stay the course and a crime is uncovered, they will be to blame. Make it clear to Democrats that the hysteria they show in this issue, similar to the hysteria about electing Hillary Clinton just because she's Hillary Clinton, will bring them the same disappointment.
Now is the time for smart, sober minds to right the wrong.
The Times, reestablishing itself as the "Limousine Liberal" paper of record, is suggesting "we're not there yet". How unengaging can they be. Instead of reciting a litany of differences from 40 years ago, let's learn from our mistakes, and suggest a roadmap to cleanse our republic of this mistake. Make it clear to Republicans that should they stay the course and a crime is uncovered, they will be to blame. Make it clear to Democrats that the hysteria they show in this issue, similar to the hysteria about electing Hillary Clinton just because she's Hillary Clinton, will bring them the same disappointment.
Now is the time for smart, sober minds to right the wrong.
3
NYT Editorial Board lost its mind here. Saying that this is not as big as Watergate because the Republican leadership is helping to cover it up is nonsensical. That, and what this is all about, collusion with a hostile foreign government, means that this is far more significant than Watergate. This editorial is common sense turned on its head.
3
Democrats have been gifted with the simplest possible campaign messaging for 2018 should Trump still have survived till then.
Two words. Their 2018 campaign need only be two words: subpoena powers.
The Republicans have demonstrated repeatedly why they can't be trusted to uphold the constitutional responsibilities of Congress.
100 voted to impeach a president for oral sex in the 1990s because his last name was Clinton. How many committees and reports were authored after Benghazi just because a Democrat named Clinton was going to run for president in 2016?
I'd like to see Trump answer questions under threat of perjury for 11 hours. He won't even be able to last 5 hours, if that, before perjuring himself. (Basing that on the 486 public untruths he's said over 119 days - almost 5 in a single day. As President!)
Yes. And Clinton lied for these hypocritical Republicans in Congress.
At campaign events in 2018, Democrats should prominently showcase Russian nesting dolls with Trump, Republicans, and Putin... or those for Benedict Arnold.
Two words. Their 2018 campaign need only be two words: subpoena powers.
The Republicans have demonstrated repeatedly why they can't be trusted to uphold the constitutional responsibilities of Congress.
100 voted to impeach a president for oral sex in the 1990s because his last name was Clinton. How many committees and reports were authored after Benghazi just because a Democrat named Clinton was going to run for president in 2016?
I'd like to see Trump answer questions under threat of perjury for 11 hours. He won't even be able to last 5 hours, if that, before perjuring himself. (Basing that on the 486 public untruths he's said over 119 days - almost 5 in a single day. As President!)
Yes. And Clinton lied for these hypocritical Republicans in Congress.
At campaign events in 2018, Democrats should prominently showcase Russian nesting dolls with Trump, Republicans, and Putin... or those for Benedict Arnold.
3
The difference between Watergate and now is that the president's party controls Congress. Nothing short of direct, irrefutable evidence of Trump's collusion with the Russians would result in his impeachment.
1
This editorial hopelessly underestimates the seriousness of Trump's conduct compared to Nixon's and totally misses the point that while Nixon was a criminal, Trump is a traitor. Nixon was headed for impeachment and probably should have gone to prison.
Trump isn't just a criminal, he is a traitor.
Trump deserves to be put up against a wall and shot on live television, with his daughter and son-in-law chained to their seats in the front row.
Trump solicited and profited from the criminal activity of the Russians as they systematically attacked the United States with the intention of installing a stooge in the presidency. He probably took money for it, and the fact that his tax returns remain "secret" to this day says as much about the Republicans in Congress as it does about the gutless filth who wore in the IRS (if you have access to this traitor's tax records and you haven't done something about leaking them then you are as much a traitor as he is).
Nixon never deserved to die for the crimes he committed (personally and complicitly) in the United States (although the crimes against humanity in Vietnam deserved death).
Trump deserves to die - and his death would be a victory for American democracy no matter how it might happen.
America never punishes the crimes of its presidents so long as those crimes are directed at non-Americans. But a traitor? Please God let us see the forces of democracy accept he ultimate price of liberty - the readiness to kill to defend it.
Trump isn't just a criminal, he is a traitor.
Trump deserves to be put up against a wall and shot on live television, with his daughter and son-in-law chained to their seats in the front row.
Trump solicited and profited from the criminal activity of the Russians as they systematically attacked the United States with the intention of installing a stooge in the presidency. He probably took money for it, and the fact that his tax returns remain "secret" to this day says as much about the Republicans in Congress as it does about the gutless filth who wore in the IRS (if you have access to this traitor's tax records and you haven't done something about leaking them then you are as much a traitor as he is).
Nixon never deserved to die for the crimes he committed (personally and complicitly) in the United States (although the crimes against humanity in Vietnam deserved death).
Trump deserves to die - and his death would be a victory for American democracy no matter how it might happen.
America never punishes the crimes of its presidents so long as those crimes are directed at non-Americans. But a traitor? Please God let us see the forces of democracy accept he ultimate price of liberty - the readiness to kill to defend it.
5
Trump may be in the pocket of the Russians through blackmail or payoffs. And Trump and his team may have colluded with the country's enemies to sabotage the election. If either of those things prove true, which looks more likely with each passing day, it would make Burglarizing Democratic Party headquarters seem like a parking ticket.
6
Wake up, Editorial Board:
Virtually every single morning, anyone with a conscience gets shocked to their very core by unintentionally revelatory Trump Tweets that would make Nixon blush. Never mind the Lester Holt interview, the Rosenstein Letter revelations, and on and on.
Do we really need secret recordings about a burglary when we have the intelligence community sprinting out of Trump's infamous Oval Office meeting with Putin's top spy, in a panic to save the Israeli informant Trump outed from being beheaded by the Isis cell he'd infiltrated?
Do any of us really believe that Trump selling a $40 million dollar property to a Russian oligarch for $95 million wasn't money laundering for an enemy state on a massive scale?
And aren't we aware that, given Trump's and his family's extensive history of dealings with Russia, this is probably the tip of a massive iceberg of criminality?
Your backing away from your Fourth Estate responsibilities at this critical point in the nation's history will bring the Trump stench of treason squarely into your staff room.
And Nixon, for all his failings, did not commit treason.
Get your heads right, gentlemen: appearing to aid and abet a possible traitor makes you party to his actions, whatever they're shown to have been.
Virtually every single morning, anyone with a conscience gets shocked to their very core by unintentionally revelatory Trump Tweets that would make Nixon blush. Never mind the Lester Holt interview, the Rosenstein Letter revelations, and on and on.
Do we really need secret recordings about a burglary when we have the intelligence community sprinting out of Trump's infamous Oval Office meeting with Putin's top spy, in a panic to save the Israeli informant Trump outed from being beheaded by the Isis cell he'd infiltrated?
Do any of us really believe that Trump selling a $40 million dollar property to a Russian oligarch for $95 million wasn't money laundering for an enemy state on a massive scale?
And aren't we aware that, given Trump's and his family's extensive history of dealings with Russia, this is probably the tip of a massive iceberg of criminality?
Your backing away from your Fourth Estate responsibilities at this critical point in the nation's history will bring the Trump stench of treason squarely into your staff room.
And Nixon, for all his failings, did not commit treason.
Get your heads right, gentlemen: appearing to aid and abet a possible traitor makes you party to his actions, whatever they're shown to have been.
8
The proof of the coverup has already been admitted by the White House. And it was for the cover up that the Watergate seven were prosecuted. It is true that what was being covered up has not yet been fully revealed. But it's just a matter of time. When it is, I expect it will be far, far, worse than just the cover-up (which, again, is bad enough for impeachment). Watergate involved a penny-ante attempt to listen in on the DNC. When the final shoe of this centipede (as John McCain calls it) drops, there will be charges of treason.
3
Comey memo—if it exists—true or false—indicts Comey. If Trump tried to obstruct Flynn investigation, Comey committed 2 felonies: not reporting it post haste & testifying there was no obstruction. If Trump did not try to obstruct Flynn investigation, Comey is sabotaging the presidency.
Benghazi, IRS scandal, tarmac tête-à-tête, etc. Where are the grand juries? The indictments?
The real Russia collusion: Obama to Dmitry Medvedev re "flexibility after the election," & Clinton-Putin Uranium 1 deal that transferred 20% of US uranium output to Russia & $450M of Kremlin cash into the pocket of SoS & husband.
HC's emails: "Notwithstanding these enumerated crimes," Comey told us, "she had no intent, no mens rea—no 'mens' at all, in fact. As for all that evidence of intent, the deleted 33k subpoenaed emails, the BleachBitted illicit server, the endless string of false exculpatory statements, repeated statements against interest, absolution w/o investigation, aliases & emails flying to and fro—wipe them all, like w/ a cloth. Ditto her FBI interview. So what if HC was a Martha-Stewart sitting duck but for her 'I don't recall' functional 5ths & FBI follow-up failures. (Tarmac tête-à-tête set up these work-arounds.)
& ditto Marina the maid. She was simply a Clinton staffer doing her job—cleaning up HC's mess. And HC was just another equal-opportunity employer. Marina is entitled to equal access to the same classified docs & SCIFs as the rest of the HC staff. Jim Comey is no Jim Crow."
Benghazi, IRS scandal, tarmac tête-à-tête, etc. Where are the grand juries? The indictments?
The real Russia collusion: Obama to Dmitry Medvedev re "flexibility after the election," & Clinton-Putin Uranium 1 deal that transferred 20% of US uranium output to Russia & $450M of Kremlin cash into the pocket of SoS & husband.
HC's emails: "Notwithstanding these enumerated crimes," Comey told us, "she had no intent, no mens rea—no 'mens' at all, in fact. As for all that evidence of intent, the deleted 33k subpoenaed emails, the BleachBitted illicit server, the endless string of false exculpatory statements, repeated statements against interest, absolution w/o investigation, aliases & emails flying to and fro—wipe them all, like w/ a cloth. Ditto her FBI interview. So what if HC was a Martha-Stewart sitting duck but for her 'I don't recall' functional 5ths & FBI follow-up failures. (Tarmac tête-à-tête set up these work-arounds.)
& ditto Marina the maid. She was simply a Clinton staffer doing her job—cleaning up HC's mess. And HC was just another equal-opportunity employer. Marina is entitled to equal access to the same classified docs & SCIFs as the rest of the HC staff. Jim Comey is no Jim Crow."
4
It may not be Watergate. That was covering up a burglary.
This is about having the Russian government help him become president. Yeah, It's not Watergate. It's unimaginably worse--treason.
This is about having the Russian government help him become president. Yeah, It's not Watergate. It's unimaginably worse--treason.
7
Trump is too into gilt to contemplate iron bars.
Alan Dershowitz, who voted for Hillary, sees this Comey-Trump imbroglio not as Nixonian but as Stalinist, as in Stalin's bloodthirsty executioner, Lavrentiy ("Show me the man and I will show you the crime") Beria.
Dershowitz says there is no crime here. The unitary executive theory of American constitutional law—the doctrine is rooted in Article Two—holds that President Trump possesses the power to control the entire executive branch.
If you want Nixonian, think Hillary. (Some would argue she's a Stalinist, as well.) The conundrum: Trump is terrible, but the alternative is orders of magnitude worse.
HMC
Milhous is her middle name
Nixonian is her bent.
Woodward became short of breath
Counting her obstructions, her intent.
Bob Woodward became hypoxic
Contemplating crimes of the cover-up czar.
120,000 counts at 20 years per
2.4 million years behind bars.
Alan Dershowitz, who voted for Hillary, sees this Comey-Trump imbroglio not as Nixonian but as Stalinist, as in Stalin's bloodthirsty executioner, Lavrentiy ("Show me the man and I will show you the crime") Beria.
Dershowitz says there is no crime here. The unitary executive theory of American constitutional law—the doctrine is rooted in Article Two—holds that President Trump possesses the power to control the entire executive branch.
If you want Nixonian, think Hillary. (Some would argue she's a Stalinist, as well.) The conundrum: Trump is terrible, but the alternative is orders of magnitude worse.
HMC
Milhous is her middle name
Nixonian is her bent.
Woodward became short of breath
Counting her obstructions, her intent.
Bob Woodward became hypoxic
Contemplating crimes of the cover-up czar.
120,000 counts at 20 years per
2.4 million years behind bars.
4
The New York Times should be emphasizing the difference between a special prosecutor and an independent commission regarding the investigation of Russian involvement in the election. Far too many people who should know better are using the terms interchangeably. We need an independent commission which will produce a complete report including disclosing the actions of all individuals involved and recommendations as to future actions to be taken. In contrast a special prosecutor could easily conclude that there was no ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that law was broken, because there may not be any directly applicable laws or the evidence is murky, and not name anyone. We did not have special prosecutors after 9/11 or the financial crisis, but correctly had independent commissions.
“…The question then becomes what did Putin hope to gain by aiding Trump? . What Russia and Putin desperately need is money. Even if Putin asked Trump to have the American Treasury transfer, say $200 billion to Russia, that is not going to happen. Even Kellyanne Conway could not spin that one into anything that would be acceptable to the American people or congress. Absent writing Russia a big check, how could Trump cause Russia to gain $200 billion? The answer would be a $50 increase in the price of oil.
We know what has caused most of the oil price spikes in the last 50 years. That has been wars in the Middle East..” http://seekingalpha.com/article/4034048
“…The question then becomes what did Putin hope to gain by aiding Trump? . What Russia and Putin desperately need is money. Even if Putin asked Trump to have the American Treasury transfer, say $200 billion to Russia, that is not going to happen. Even Kellyanne Conway could not spin that one into anything that would be acceptable to the American people or congress. Absent writing Russia a big check, how could Trump cause Russia to gain $200 billion? The answer would be a $50 increase in the price of oil.
We know what has caused most of the oil price spikes in the last 50 years. That has been wars in the Middle East..” http://seekingalpha.com/article/4034048
2
Not there yet? Hell, we're way past Watergate.
Nixon and his plumbers were just a small gang, not the entire Administration, including the entire cabinet, and in fact the entire Republican Congress, which are aiding and abetting Trump, and using him as cover to dismantle our government.
Nixon and his plumbers were just a small gang, not the entire Administration, including the entire cabinet, and in fact the entire Republican Congress, which are aiding and abetting Trump, and using him as cover to dismantle our government.
6
NYT and Dems are truly delusional. Keep up the good work LOL
5
Delusion is in the eyes of the beholders.
2
At this juncture all we can conclude is that Our Donald is a fool and a jackass. Neither of which are grounds for impeachment and removal.
3
Impeachment is purely political. A president can be impeached for lying to protect the reputation of a lady. It has already happened.
2
It is hard to avoid thoughts about impeachment when it is unimaginable that what has been happening for the last four months could continue on for another three and a half years. It's just inconceivable. So regardless of what has been established at the moment, and unless you are one of his die-hard devotees living in their alternate reality (who will probably never see Trump for what he is), we all know where this is going and we just want to get there as quickly as possible.
2
Ah! Some sensible 'thoughts' at last. Until some illegal action is found in Trumps behavior/deeds, all talk of impeachment is wildly distracting and does no justice to a venerated news media.
3
Very confusing editorial. On the one hand it doesn't rise on the level of Watergate, on the other majority is needed in one house of Congress to assure subpoena power to look into it.
We are talking about dealings with a foreign power, an adversary, meddling in our elections (and those of other nations too). The NYT was not so patient and lenient with the Clintons and their Whitewater so-called scandal that was pursued relentlessly in the 90s. I suggest the same attitude now dear NYT.
We are talking about dealings with a foreign power, an adversary, meddling in our elections (and those of other nations too). The NYT was not so patient and lenient with the Clintons and their Whitewater so-called scandal that was pursued relentlessly in the 90s. I suggest the same attitude now dear NYT.
3
I am not a fan of the President but I am a fan of fairness. I hate to say it what many are doing is something they would not done to themselves. Memory of words, loss of context and intonation, passing thoughts....hardly evidentiary as it
must come to be if we consider any level of legal remedy. I pose the question : what if much of what is being accepted is materially or substantially wrong. As has been noted, Trump talks and does not " speak ", meaning he is not measured nor cautious, elegant or subtle....but he may just be what is: a rough, vulgar guy put into a place where that works behind the scene ( Johnson ) and not in front. Nothing harms us now by being deliberate. Much harm can be done by imprudent and hasty response to a man many simply do not like.
must come to be if we consider any level of legal remedy. I pose the question : what if much of what is being accepted is materially or substantially wrong. As has been noted, Trump talks and does not " speak ", meaning he is not measured nor cautious, elegant or subtle....but he may just be what is: a rough, vulgar guy put into a place where that works behind the scene ( Johnson ) and not in front. Nothing harms us now by being deliberate. Much harm can be done by imprudent and hasty response to a man many simply do not like.
1
Comparing Trump to Johnson, you MUST be a fan of Trump.
1
This is one of the most hilariously myopic editorials you've run in quite a while. Donald Trump makes Richard Nixon look like Abraham Lincoln. Whatever else you can say about Nixon--and there's plenty to say--he believed himself a patriot. Trump clearly does not. He arguably violated the Constitution the moment he took the oath of office, while also apparently having no intention of abiding by the oath he took. It looks more and more, in fact, like he really didn't understand the oath at all. Nixon was a political dirty trickster who veered into breaking the law. Trump is an authoritarian who believes his whims override the law, tradition, and the safety of the United States of America--to which he is an existential threat. That you can't or won't see this says volumes about the depths to which the Fourth Estate has fallen.
4
We will never get to Watergate. Neither Watergate nor Iran-Contra nor Monica Lewinsky have anything of comparable damaging import to this looming scandal.
Impeachment would be a wholly inadequate remedy for collusion, cooperation, collaboration and conspiring with Vladimir Putin and the Russians in order for Trump to win the Presidency of the United States for his personal, family and corporate profit. Being a mere bunch of useful naïve idiots by cooption by this overt and covert Russian anti-American intelligence attack is of no comfort.
Russian interference in the 2016 American Presidential campaign and election is historically unique. Bringing into question the fundamental legitimacy of the current President of the United States along with the effectiveness of our national security defense apparatus and the preservation, protection and defense of our Constitutional divided limited power democratic republic.
Impeachment would be a wholly inadequate remedy for collusion, cooperation, collaboration and conspiring with Vladimir Putin and the Russians in order for Trump to win the Presidency of the United States for his personal, family and corporate profit. Being a mere bunch of useful naïve idiots by cooption by this overt and covert Russian anti-American intelligence attack is of no comfort.
Russian interference in the 2016 American Presidential campaign and election is historically unique. Bringing into question the fundamental legitimacy of the current President of the United States along with the effectiveness of our national security defense apparatus and the preservation, protection and defense of our Constitutional divided limited power democratic republic.
2
Right. Next year. Let's diddle until next year so the then, supposed majority, Democrats can use subpoena power to "shed light on deeds" that become older on a daily basis, giving the Trump partisans time to bury and otherwise obfuscate what really happened. Where is he now? Away, for nine days, like an old bad-guy western: Rob the bank and head for the hills putting as much distance possible between him and the posse. Well, maybe he will be quiet during the trip so at least those of us in bowels of the Country can have some respite from the daily serving of governmental garbage.
4
Thank you NYT. Journalists are prone to cliche' and need to be pulled back from time to time. Watergate is a false comparison. Impeachment fantasy is an oversimplification and a dangerous distraction. If Trump helps Democrats win back Congress it will have been worth the horror of his administration because it is the entire Republican Party we need to fear not the crazy man they chose to lead them.
3
This is a far more egregious crime bordering on treason. Of course there is cover-up here. That it should be investigated. yes. Even though Trump thinks, 'if the president does it it's legal', the Justice Department, the Special Council, and the Senate may not agree. Beauregard has already recused himself but has interfered once already and the Senate and House have Republican majorities. Let's find out how well they represent American justice in action. Here's hoping the Special Council will make his findings public.
3
No!! Stop normalizing and defending this treasonous kleptocracy. Every day, every NYTimes should be focused on the countless reasons for impeachment and trial. The pressure should be massive. You must lead the way not hide behind what is practical.
3
I want to thank the Times and other news outlets for the excellent reporting showing exactly what Trump is. Although I agree with the editors that Watergate talk is a waste of time, the fact is that Trump's government is doing much damage to civil rights gains, the daily lives of immigrants, legal or not, the environment, the health care economy and just about every sector of America. I lived through Watergate, and while Nixon was evil, his profound damage was extending the Vietnam war and all the suffering many of us endured. Suffering that lasted a lifetime. Congress did its work. Today is much different and far more dangerous, which is why folks are hopeful that the end of Trump is near. If I hear one more pundit say that Mr. Mueller's investigation is going to take a long time I will throw up. Why? Because the egregious conduct by Trump and his minions makes for a game-set-match, 44-minute episode of Law and Order. Uncovering the fraud, treason and obstruction will not take 18 months, as with the Watergate crimes. For the sake of the planet and the American project, he has got to go--as soon as possible.
3
Brilliant, calm and measured. Kudos to the Editorial Board. You're striking precisely the right balance here. This is a legal issue and high crimes and misdemeanors this ain't, not yet, and one can reasonably hope, never to come. For if Mr. Trump ultimately does pervert, undermine, violate and demean the Constitution of this great America to the point where we were in 1972-74 with Tricky Dick, we must all bow our heads in prayer and fear for the future of this land. Let us hope that Mr. Trump gets better legal advice and learns to follow his lawyers' best guidance and stops behaving like a monster before it's too late.
1
Watergate? We may not be there yet, but to many observers we are on third base and our clean-up hitter is at bat with no outs.
1
I really agree with this analysis. Power is power. The rest is commentary. And, unlike with Watergate, Democrats now don't have the power -- specifically the subpoena power -- to conduct a comprehensive investigation. Remember that the Mueller-led investigation will focus on possible criminal activity and, at bottom, impeachment is a political process -- not a criminal prosecution. Nixon, for example, was guilty of a felony ("misprison of felony", i.e., conducting a coverup) but the felony didn't drive his impeachment. What drove it was political: a widespread loss of confidence in his ability to govern. This is why the focus should be on keeping Trump's approval rating low so that his cruel, destructive policy initiatives are neutered while focusing on the 2018 mid-terms to win back at least one house of Congress and, thereby, gain Democrats the subpoena power. This is the necessary predicate to establish Watergate-like conditions.
12
Impeachment is a fantasy that so called Democratic Party leaders and obviously many NYT readers look to for "salvation" from the miserable state of the Democratic Party that allowed Trump to be elected.
Instead how about some REAL Democratic Party leadership and a truly progressive agenda. Or is that too radical for the simple minded waiting for Godot.
Instead how about some REAL Democratic Party leadership and a truly progressive agenda. Or is that too radical for the simple minded waiting for Godot.
4
I don't get your analysis, Nixon's crime was a coverup of a third rate burglery while Trump has obstructed justice and flaunted the conflict of interests rules set up to protect this country from blackmail. I would say Trump has orbited Watergate several times over in scope and scale.
5
I don't mind saying, I'm having a really hard time with your conclusion. I see a massive number of issues on the surface, let along the subterranean issues for which we only have hints. This is on the legal piece, and otherwise. We won't even go into the "appearance" of wrong-doing, and actual damage to the Nation.
3
"For Democrats, too much indulgence of impeachment notions could prove a distraction from the more workaday and politically achievable challenge at hand."
So why does the Times continue with the fake news stirring such notions?
So why does the Times continue with the fake news stirring such notions?
2
Republicans cheapened impeachment when they went after Pres. Clinton for eight years, even forming the "Arkansas Project" devoted solely to finding dirt on him to bring him down, and ending up with only a fib, not even a lie, about a consensual affair in a deposition in a case that was thrown out by the judge for lacking merit.
The GOP has continued in that pattern, creating committees and investigations to endlessly harass Hillary Clinton, prepping also for a cheapened impeachment, thinking she was going to win the election.
And they have cheapened it even further by buying their heads in the sand when it has come to Donald Trump's serious infections, far worse than a fib about a private affair or saying a terrorist attack might have been prompted by a video.
The GOP has clearly used the very, very serious impeachment provision solely for political and electoral means. They've also never gotten over Watergate, as Henry Hyde even admitted when he said the witch hunt and impeachment of Clinton was in large part "payback for Watergate." So ugh, what does that mean Democrats are in for over the next 60 years for the disaster that is Trump?
The GOP has continued in that pattern, creating committees and investigations to endlessly harass Hillary Clinton, prepping also for a cheapened impeachment, thinking she was going to win the election.
And they have cheapened it even further by buying their heads in the sand when it has come to Donald Trump's serious infections, far worse than a fib about a private affair or saying a terrorist attack might have been prompted by a video.
The GOP has clearly used the very, very serious impeachment provision solely for political and electoral means. They've also never gotten over Watergate, as Henry Hyde even admitted when he said the witch hunt and impeachment of Clinton was in large part "payback for Watergate." So ugh, what does that mean Democrats are in for over the next 60 years for the disaster that is Trump?
1
Forget impeachment, removal by 25th Amendment because it should be clear to even the most ardent Republican in Congress and his Cabinet that Trump is unfit for the office he holds. Or are they waiting for him to start a nuclear war?
1
From what I remember, two years went by between the Watergate break-in and the resignation of Richard Nixon. The hysteria surrounding Trump is almost deafening. The fact that Trump is 75% of that hysteria doesn't help things, but then again, Nixon was more like Count Dracula as opposed to Trumps Homer Simpson. Cool heads and level heads need to prevail. Lately, when I look through the New York Times, I skim or skip editorials and commentary on Trump (yes, it's rather ironic this is one of them). Most of these articles scream that the sky is falling, when all I see are clouds. Until something very tangible emerges, until it's genuine, I'm settling in for the long haul of this nightmare. At this point, like it or not, that is the reality of our situation, and the Chicken Littles need to focus more on research and digging for facts, rather than believing wishful thinking will make things happen. After all, pretending things are a certain way, and the reality of how things are, makes them more like Trump than not.
3
The Deep State is out to get Trump. Why did it never go after Bush or Cheney?
Blah blah blah, blah blah blah. Because these events do not parallel Watergate or because the Dems were stronger then a comparison can't be inferred? Back then nobody knew what laptop, cell phone or internet were. There used to be phone booths on every corner. Ask a kid what that is nowadays.
On the contrary. I'd say this is far more serious, it's just that we haven't peeled the skin of this current onion back to get to the real stink and methinks there is more than one source of that foul odor.
Wait for it....it's coming.
On the contrary. I'd say this is far more serious, it's just that we haven't peeled the skin of this current onion back to get to the real stink and methinks there is more than one source of that foul odor.
Wait for it....it's coming.
1
Pardon me for being a Cassandra, but getting rid of Trump will not change the fact that our Republic is finished. Trump's election marks the moment that the gross venality that defines the taste of so many Americans--the obsession with increasing individual wealth and achieving material success, and the American-style vulgarity and ostentatiousness that accompanies these things--has now broken through into civic life. There's no way to return to a nation of ideals.
19
The Democrats obsession with Russia is comparable to the Republicans with Benghazi when Obama was in power. It is simply a handy stick with which to beat a politician they despise. In the meantime, our relations with Russia have plunged to a low not seen since the depths of the Cold War.
We're not there yet . . . only if you are comparing a much later phase of Watergate to the current status of Russiagate.
At a comparable point in time in Watergate (NYT September 15, 1972), the Justice Department had concluded that no one in the White House was involved. Archibald Cox was not appointed until almost a year after the break-in, much later than Meuller's appointment. Nixon fired Cox in October 1973, six months after he was named Special Prosecutor, and 18 months after the break-in. Trump fired Comey within weeks after the investigation began. Seems that things are much larger and moving much earlier this time around.
At a comparable point in time in Watergate (NYT September 15, 1972), the Justice Department had concluded that no one in the White House was involved. Archibald Cox was not appointed until almost a year after the break-in, much later than Meuller's appointment. Nixon fired Cox in October 1973, six months after he was named Special Prosecutor, and 18 months after the break-in. Trump fired Comey within weeks after the investigation began. Seems that things are much larger and moving much earlier this time around.
3
It became apparent shorty shortly after midnight on June 17, 1972, that a crime had been committed. That was the date that five operatives paid the Nixon reelection campaign were caught breaking into Democratic National Committee Headquarters, Within hours of the burglars' arrest, FBI discovered E. Howard Hunt's name in the address books of two of the burglars. Hunt ran the Nixon White House Special Investigations Unit, also known as the White House Plumbers. According to CNN, the FBI first warned the DNC that Russian operatives had hacked its email servers in 2015. It's been two years, and the FBI hasn't been able to link the hacking to the Trump campaign. The U.S. intelligence community assessment report concluded only Putin could have ordered the hacking,
I said it then and I will repeat it now, Clinton and her supporters were played, Trump started the fixed election mantra months before November. The democrats and media responded even better than Trump imagined they would. 20% of campaign coverage was about how up and on the level U.S. elections are.
So the argument that our election was on the level was won by the media and Clinton. Played I tell you.
Afterwards Comey, Obama, 17 National Security Agencies tell us the Russians interfered.
I must say Trump was pretty smart, he even had me. But now I know, I know his tells, I've studied his game. He cannot be exonerated and that is why we are a Nation in crisis. That is why he cannot stop obsessing over all things Russia.
Watergate? Before he even took the oath of POTUS we were at Watergate level. Today this investigation makes the Watergate investigation look like an overdue library book. He did it, he knows about it, and he is running inside his own skin.
Trumps con just hit his imaginary wall, from here on out hold on America.
So the argument that our election was on the level was won by the media and Clinton. Played I tell you.
Afterwards Comey, Obama, 17 National Security Agencies tell us the Russians interfered.
I must say Trump was pretty smart, he even had me. But now I know, I know his tells, I've studied his game. He cannot be exonerated and that is why we are a Nation in crisis. That is why he cannot stop obsessing over all things Russia.
Watergate? Before he even took the oath of POTUS we were at Watergate level. Today this investigation makes the Watergate investigation look like an overdue library book. He did it, he knows about it, and he is running inside his own skin.
Trumps con just hit his imaginary wall, from here on out hold on America.
1
Trumpgate is worse that Watergate was, when we had a functioning government. Now we have one party rule with a hollowed out executive branch where only loyalty to the president matters. Nixon was certainly a crook who thought he was above the law. Yet Nixon was sane, intelligent, experienced, well educated and corrupt, while Trump is only one of those things.
The GOP will ignore the clear and present danger of Trump because they are part of it .We have a new system, The people have been separated from their government. Government is now based on the Mafia model, a government by and for gangsrers and racketeers. We now have is the not the GOP but the TCF, the Trump Crime Family for the enrichment of Trump and his family and his loyalists.
Trump wanted to be a dictator wanted to do a deal with the Putin gang, with a merger later on. What do you think all those visits and telephone calls with the Russians were all about?
That merger is taking place but the enemy of the people, the free press and the FBI got wind of foreign agents in government Putin kills trouble makers, but Trump fires them and does not fill their jobs and slanders the press and does all he can to govern in secret and gets advice from the Russians.
The GOP will not impeach Trump, but the people will because that is what the midterms will be all about. We need to end the rule of the Trump Crime Family. The clear and present danger, is a new war before the midterms.
The GOP will ignore the clear and present danger of Trump because they are part of it .We have a new system, The people have been separated from their government. Government is now based on the Mafia model, a government by and for gangsrers and racketeers. We now have is the not the GOP but the TCF, the Trump Crime Family for the enrichment of Trump and his family and his loyalists.
Trump wanted to be a dictator wanted to do a deal with the Putin gang, with a merger later on. What do you think all those visits and telephone calls with the Russians were all about?
That merger is taking place but the enemy of the people, the free press and the FBI got wind of foreign agents in government Putin kills trouble makers, but Trump fires them and does not fill their jobs and slanders the press and does all he can to govern in secret and gets advice from the Russians.
The GOP will not impeach Trump, but the people will because that is what the midterms will be all about. We need to end the rule of the Trump Crime Family. The clear and present danger, is a new war before the midterms.
1
Maybe we're not there yet with going after impeachment of this fool but eventually he will give us what is needed to get rid of him and when that day comes, I hope I'll be around for a front row seat
1
Trump is a transient phenomenon, all the people who voted for him are not. Do you think impeaching him will return us to the "status quo ante Trump"? The divisions in our country are truly dreadful, that is what we should be talking about.
4
Those who think, including the NYT, that Trump has a political agenda are sadly mistaken.
Of course, he is a bigot and a racist, but his only proclivity is to make money by any possible means. His principles are dishonesty and expediency.
We will see a lot of that in his famous 100 Billions infrastructure plan.
Analyst are surprised that he has not presented his plan to Congress. But of course, his idea is to open the door to his friends, either the Russians with their ill gotten money and now the Saudis.
We will see private roads charging ridiculously high prices. And private monopolies in all service areas, like health, education, communications, information, etc..
Tighten your belts now so you can pay those prices in the near future.
Of course, he is a bigot and a racist, but his only proclivity is to make money by any possible means. His principles are dishonesty and expediency.
We will see a lot of that in his famous 100 Billions infrastructure plan.
Analyst are surprised that he has not presented his plan to Congress. But of course, his idea is to open the door to his friends, either the Russians with their ill gotten money and now the Saudis.
We will see private roads charging ridiculously high prices. And private monopolies in all service areas, like health, education, communications, information, etc..
Tighten your belts now so you can pay those prices in the near future.
3
Good editorial. Sanity is in short supply in Washington. Focus on the midterm message Democrats.
1
Watergate was the cover up of a crime. There is no crime here. There is no cover up. Only a bitter angry democrat party and their willing lapdog surrogates in the left wing media trying to cripple America and their President. Shame!
2
Rather generous of you to offer this "reasoned" anaysis of the state of the union. However, there is a desperation out here in the actual world that grows daily with each new proposal remove the institutional protections we have gained over the years. We depend on the leaders we appoint to act in our best interest. This stopped happening with the inauguration of Trump.
Time is running out for a course correction, so please enlighten us as to what we can do before the future elections offer a chance to change the composition of the legislature, an uncertain prospect for sure given recent outcomes.
Time is running out for a course correction, so please enlighten us as to what we can do before the future elections offer a chance to change the composition of the legislature, an uncertain prospect for sure given recent outcomes.
When someone obtains negative or embarrassing information about another and threatens to make that information public, it's called extortion, not ransom. Have you now outsourced the drafting of your editorials to non-native English speakers? Do you employ editors? It seems as though every day I see bizarre uses of the English language, mistakes native speakers would never make
Was there a political reason for describing the extortion so strangely? How could there be? They did in fact try to extort. It took place over 40 years ago. The mind boggles.
Was there a political reason for describing the extortion so strangely? How could there be? They did in fact try to extort. It took place over 40 years ago. The mind boggles.
2
Why does everyone have a hard time equating the trump team's actions and Watergate? Nixon and his team conspired to burglarize the Democratic Headquarters in the Watergate Office building. Why? They were searching for anything that they could use as negative campaign publicity against the democrats in the upcoming election. That's it.
With our recent episode of Trump et al., the democratic headquarters' computers were hacked and Hillary's campaign chair's computer was hacked in order to download and obtain documents and emails that could be used as negative campaign publicity against the democrats in the upcoming election. That's it.
The former case was one of physically breaking in to the offices and the file cabinets, while employing some renegade Cubans and CIA ex-operatives. The latter case was one of virtually/digitally breaking in to computers of an organization and an individual, while possibly using Russian operatives in the deed.
Both are criminal acts! Both are clearly similar! The purposes were the same!
With our recent episode of Trump et al., the democratic headquarters' computers were hacked and Hillary's campaign chair's computer was hacked in order to download and obtain documents and emails that could be used as negative campaign publicity against the democrats in the upcoming election. That's it.
The former case was one of physically breaking in to the offices and the file cabinets, while employing some renegade Cubans and CIA ex-operatives. The latter case was one of virtually/digitally breaking in to computers of an organization and an individual, while possibly using Russian operatives in the deed.
Both are criminal acts! Both are clearly similar! The purposes were the same!
1
The reality of impeachment is a little like that of a marital divorce. The prospect of a breach from an unsustainable relationship might initially prompt relief, happines and even glee but the process not only usually causes great damage but also incurs enormous cost to all parties. The consequences are often painful.
Most of all, remember the children, for that is what we voters have become.
Most of all, remember the children, for that is what we voters have become.
1
Not so fast. That anyone would be secretly working as a foreign agent to affect an election is pretty serious stuff. Pretty treasonous stuff.
3
The tooth-and-claw partisanship bothers me. Paul Ryan stands there and lies to the American public everyday. You can almost see him trying not to laugh as he continues to back Trump. How is that not a breach of his oath of office? We should change the rules. This guy is worse than Sean Spicer. We know Spicer is paid to lie. Ryan not so much. He's standing in front of a six car pile up saying "What accident?" and expects to be taken credibly. Mitch McConnell is no better but at least he mostly remains silent instead of pretending everything is hunkydory. Also, McConnell didn't just win the golden horse apple award for worst health care legislation ever. We're still waiting to see what the Senate drops.
1
This could be Nixon, Reagan and Clinton all rolled into one. The case for a Nixon parallel was well made by the NYT EB; Iran-Contra involved shady dealings with foreign powers; and if a special prosecutor were given powers similar to Ken Starr's, Trump's sexual escapades could rival those of Clinton. Impeachment talk is premature, since there's been no serious official investigation to date. Let the probes begin, by both Mueller's team and Congress, and let's find out the extent of Trump Administration activities -- the Russian ties and beyond to emoluments and tax records (What's going on with those audits Trump cited as his excuse for non-disclosure?). In some five decades as a reporter, my experience teaches that when each new revelation begets two others in an ever-widening circle, there's a fire somewhere. At present, we don't know precisely where it is.
1
It will be very interesting to see how midterms go. One data point does not make a trend, but this mostly libertarian voter has permanently left the GOP. And it's not just because of the Illegitimate One. No, it's that, and what I see as absolutely deplorable behavior by a craven and demonstrably misanthropic GOP base whoes ideology has become ever more calloused. Their clear willingness to obfuscate truth and to abdicate their duty to keep presidential abuses in check proves the absence of any meaningful character, and that it fills the entire culture of the party.
I find them individually and collectively disgusting humans. I reject their alt-white hatred, their desire to undermine anyone poor or brown-skinned, and their relentless pursuit of sovereignty over a woman's body and an adult's sovereign right to genrally do what what they want with their own bodies. I find their desire to further enrich their donor base, to build ever more weapons and fight ever more wars, and to cut services for the most vulnerable a disgrace. I'm baffled by their absence of concern for preserving our planet and all the vital resources we share - in the name of quarterly profits. And I will not supoort them, vote for them, or associate with them ever again.
I find them individually and collectively disgusting humans. I reject their alt-white hatred, their desire to undermine anyone poor or brown-skinned, and their relentless pursuit of sovereignty over a woman's body and an adult's sovereign right to genrally do what what they want with their own bodies. I find their desire to further enrich their donor base, to build ever more weapons and fight ever more wars, and to cut services for the most vulnerable a disgrace. I'm baffled by their absence of concern for preserving our planet and all the vital resources we share - in the name of quarterly profits. And I will not supoort them, vote for them, or associate with them ever again.
2
The author makes clear that the difference is not in the magnitude of the crimes, but in the willingness of Republicans to investigate and prosecute them. I remember the Republicans resisting for a very long time in the prosecution of Richard Nixon, and if it hadn't been for a few brave souls who told the truth in the face of heavy intimidation, we might not have done so. The Republicans are behaving now as they did then, only now they are in charge.
2
This situation may not be a copy of Watergate but there is the dreadful possibility that our Spoiled Child will start to play with his nuclear toys just to prove that he is the Boss, not matter what anyone says.
2
I believe the primary problem with Trump's presidency has been missed - other than his pathetic narcissism, stunted emotional growth and lack of any apparent ethical development.
I don't believe there was "collusion" to gain the presidency. I think the Russians were as surprised by his election as were many Americans. I think they intended to cripple a Hillary Clinton presidency through their meddling.
The Russian scandal is all about money. Money the corrupt Russians invested in Trump businesses. Money that Trump associates can make through more "deals." Trump, Tillerson, Manafort, Carter Page, Jared Kushner and more are in this administration because they see dollar signs, not a tricolor Russian flag over our Capitol.
Impeachment may or may not be eventually merited. A 25th Amendment solution may be necessary. But what is mandatory is legislation that insures that presidential self-dealing and economic corruption will be revealed. Legislation that requires the release of tax returns for every candidate. Legislation that requires detailed financial disclosure of every investment, every partnership, every bank account. This should be a price any candidate for the presidency must pay.
If such laws were in place, there would be no Trump. Or, if we were really dumb enough to nominate and elect such a man, we would only have incompetence to reckon with, not this vast and troubling web of international economic mischief.
I don't believe there was "collusion" to gain the presidency. I think the Russians were as surprised by his election as were many Americans. I think they intended to cripple a Hillary Clinton presidency through their meddling.
The Russian scandal is all about money. Money the corrupt Russians invested in Trump businesses. Money that Trump associates can make through more "deals." Trump, Tillerson, Manafort, Carter Page, Jared Kushner and more are in this administration because they see dollar signs, not a tricolor Russian flag over our Capitol.
Impeachment may or may not be eventually merited. A 25th Amendment solution may be necessary. But what is mandatory is legislation that insures that presidential self-dealing and economic corruption will be revealed. Legislation that requires the release of tax returns for every candidate. Legislation that requires detailed financial disclosure of every investment, every partnership, every bank account. This should be a price any candidate for the presidency must pay.
If such laws were in place, there would be no Trump. Or, if we were really dumb enough to nominate and elect such a man, we would only have incompetence to reckon with, not this vast and troubling web of international economic mischief.
2
This editorial misses the point about impeachment. It's not a punishment, it's a judgment about performance and damage, including rationally about potential damage.
Pres. Trump's confession to intentional obstruction of justice, in a case intended to protect national security from subversion by a hostile foreign power, highlights the reason why even successful prosecution would not serve as a remedy, which is that Donald Trump, as a person, is unable to abide by the rule of law. He misuses the President's authority not just episodically but systematically.
These abuses are not the result of inexperience in public service but are the continuation of a life-long career of unethical and illegal practices: racial discrimination for profit, abusing women, cheating suppliers, etc.
If this behavior were opportunistic, it could theoretically be controlled using incentives: carrots and sticks. But on the contrary Pres. Trump's behavior is baked into his personality.
The American public is generally charmed by this. The leading students of American society in our era, our movie studios, know what to give us: male heroes who break rules ("defy authority and destroy property").
Successful prosecution of particular acts would leave this personality in office when what is needed is a majoritarian act rejecting Pres. Trump's challenge to the rule of law -- removal from office following impeachment and conviction by majorities in the U.S. Congress.
Pres. Trump's confession to intentional obstruction of justice, in a case intended to protect national security from subversion by a hostile foreign power, highlights the reason why even successful prosecution would not serve as a remedy, which is that Donald Trump, as a person, is unable to abide by the rule of law. He misuses the President's authority not just episodically but systematically.
These abuses are not the result of inexperience in public service but are the continuation of a life-long career of unethical and illegal practices: racial discrimination for profit, abusing women, cheating suppliers, etc.
If this behavior were opportunistic, it could theoretically be controlled using incentives: carrots and sticks. But on the contrary Pres. Trump's behavior is baked into his personality.
The American public is generally charmed by this. The leading students of American society in our era, our movie studios, know what to give us: male heroes who break rules ("defy authority and destroy property").
Successful prosecution of particular acts would leave this personality in office when what is needed is a majoritarian act rejecting Pres. Trump's challenge to the rule of law -- removal from office following impeachment and conviction by majorities in the U.S. Congress.
3
Unfortunately the American public is afraid to speak truth to power. Everyone is afraid of their shadow. The public and the Congress particular Republican leadership must grow a backbone. If Hillary had been elected by the electoral college and accomplished a quarter of the craziness Donald has done she would already have been impeached."Still, it remains to be seen whether the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, and House Speaker Paul Ryan are committed to truth seeking, with its potential cost for the Republican Party." Republican enablers are ruining are country. Our country's second biggest problem is a person from Kentucky..........mitch McConnell. And guess who put him in the Senate.......... “He was 40 points behind with two months to go,” Cross said. “But then they put up this hound dog ad and it made people laugh.” McConnell hired Ailes to jumpstart his campaign and the move paid off — Ailes convinced McConnell to run the now-legendary ads, which featured a team of bloodhounds searching for Huddleston because he missed senate votes to make paid speeches. The Congressional leadership must grow a backbone and put country before party. But Mr. Trump has created an entirely new problem for Congress, the courts and agencies: What do they do when the president himself is the pressing danger? Unlike other presidents, Mr. Trump has lacked the basic competence to manage the government. Republicans please put country before party !
3
One other difference that the article fails to mention is how much more of our lives are caught and maintained on video, photograph and audio files. It is far, far, far easier today to obtain evidence than it was in the 70s because the technology has improved.
2
We are way beyond Watergate, the third-rate burglary. This chapter in our history is about the soul of America. Is this a country where material wealth is revered above every thing else? Where literally untold riches lead to desperate deals with a corrupt foreign government bent on destroying our democratic institutions? Where a hateful, selfish, ignorant, racist narcissist has emerged as the leader of a movement based on resentment and a fear of being inadequate in the face of global imperatives.
In 2016, the United States was invaded by Russia, aided by a small group of both wealthy and morally desperate people born in the US. Regrettably, the only response our nation has summoned this far has been to expel 35 Russian spies on December 29 of last year, and even that action was immediately undermined by trump and his group of traitors.
We are now being undone by an outdated 2 party political system, where the ruling party's leaders understand that in its quest for complete political power, it has been corrupted absolutely.
The US Constitution, particularly its First Amendment, is the only defense we have from this country's enemies from within, who are allied with Russia. It will be up to private citizens, mostly women and non-Caucasian, and our non government organizations, to save us. Please help save our country.
In 2016, the United States was invaded by Russia, aided by a small group of both wealthy and morally desperate people born in the US. Regrettably, the only response our nation has summoned this far has been to expel 35 Russian spies on December 29 of last year, and even that action was immediately undermined by trump and his group of traitors.
We are now being undone by an outdated 2 party political system, where the ruling party's leaders understand that in its quest for complete political power, it has been corrupted absolutely.
The US Constitution, particularly its First Amendment, is the only defense we have from this country's enemies from within, who are allied with Russia. It will be up to private citizens, mostly women and non-Caucasian, and our non government organizations, to save us. Please help save our country.
3
"after ( (FAKE) reports surfaced that mr. Trump had pressed James Cpmey, then the FBI director, to quash the investigation."
This is FAKE NEWS!
How can the NYT editorial board print this sentence now after it was debunked by Comey himself during his testimony to Congress?
This is FAKE NEWS!
How can the NYT editorial board print this sentence now after it was debunked by Comey himself during his testimony to Congress?
1
Wishful thinking for all those Trump haters. T
here is no evidence to support your fantasy, not even a smidgen.
here is no evidence to support your fantasy, not even a smidgen.
Trumpnites are not only in the administration but there are plenty of them in Congress and, they are also afraid of their boss. Only that Trump is not their boss.
About the impeachment, I never underestimate the President's ability to get there. He has a life of practice.
About the impeachment, I never underestimate the President's ability to get there. He has a life of practice.
2
The Democrats and the Media have set their course. The folks who elected Trump are watching closely, especially the motives of the intelligence community.
Perspective is needed. The Russsian's and Chinese are heavily watched by all our three letter services and have been for decades. There is no issue there, just partisan noise.
Let's focus on the real issues:
Fix Healthcare, whichis now 20p of our economy. ACCA has some good pieces, but, it seems we should have a single payer like many nations. There are too many business segments profiting without efficiency. If a family plan costs $15-20k, and the average family earns $50-70k, it simply doesn't work.
Need solutions on dealing with China(trade,currency) and Mexico(Nafta) tactics. Refinements, not throw out the book. China, Mexico and India shouldn't be allowed to purge the world-wide middle class because it treats its citizens as armies of low wage labor.
If Trump saves 1k jobs in Iowa, at 25k per year, that's 250M that goes into taxes, national and Iowa economy. If they're gone, the workers are a drain on social nets.
Fix immigration, expedite identifying gang members and deporting them. There town's and neighbor's know who they are.
Jobs equal national strength.
Let's get smarter and work together. Dem's and Rep's should be embarrassed by the lack of progress in the last 27 years.
Let's focus on the real issues:
Fix Healthcare, whichis now 20p of our economy. ACCA has some good pieces, but, it seems we should have a single payer like many nations. There are too many business segments profiting without efficiency. If a family plan costs $15-20k, and the average family earns $50-70k, it simply doesn't work.
Need solutions on dealing with China(trade,currency) and Mexico(Nafta) tactics. Refinements, not throw out the book. China, Mexico and India shouldn't be allowed to purge the world-wide middle class because it treats its citizens as armies of low wage labor.
If Trump saves 1k jobs in Iowa, at 25k per year, that's 250M that goes into taxes, national and Iowa economy. If they're gone, the workers are a drain on social nets.
Fix immigration, expedite identifying gang members and deporting them. There town's and neighbor's know who they are.
Jobs equal national strength.
Let's get smarter and work together. Dem's and Rep's should be embarrassed by the lack of progress in the last 27 years.
3
The obsession to Watergate is simply that: an obsession. It is no more than a reference point.
Nixon, despite his paranoia, still had a cabinet of people who knew how to run the government. That is one achievement perhaps that Mr. Trump will never realize. Our present situation, rankly defined, is that we are living through amateur hour. There is more danger to our country, economy and democracy in that. Nixon's behavior was an aberration in a presidency (if one could ignore its repugnant style and messaging) on mere achievement, would have been looked upon very favorably by history. As much as that rankles me as a Democrat, Nixon was the last New Deal president despite his kick-starting modern electoral partisanship.
In Trump we suffer as a nation from a paucity of competence. The agenda is no longer one of the people. This extends to Congress as well. Campaign funding and worship of money over free and equal speech has insured our political culture has drained both parties of statesmen. Their words are pablum in order to posture to bases. Their deeds, like most of their actual time and effort, are dedicated to those that finance their careers. The danger to democracy is not a rogue politician but instead a political system so out of touch with the needs of its citizenry that a scourge like Trump was seen by voters as a solution....and still is. Get rid of Trump and the system remains unrepentant and unreformed. He is a distraction from what truly ails our democracy.
Nixon, despite his paranoia, still had a cabinet of people who knew how to run the government. That is one achievement perhaps that Mr. Trump will never realize. Our present situation, rankly defined, is that we are living through amateur hour. There is more danger to our country, economy and democracy in that. Nixon's behavior was an aberration in a presidency (if one could ignore its repugnant style and messaging) on mere achievement, would have been looked upon very favorably by history. As much as that rankles me as a Democrat, Nixon was the last New Deal president despite his kick-starting modern electoral partisanship.
In Trump we suffer as a nation from a paucity of competence. The agenda is no longer one of the people. This extends to Congress as well. Campaign funding and worship of money over free and equal speech has insured our political culture has drained both parties of statesmen. Their words are pablum in order to posture to bases. Their deeds, like most of their actual time and effort, are dedicated to those that finance their careers. The danger to democracy is not a rogue politician but instead a political system so out of touch with the needs of its citizenry that a scourge like Trump was seen by voters as a solution....and still is. Get rid of Trump and the system remains unrepentant and unreformed. He is a distraction from what truly ails our democracy.
37
Okay, Trumpgate is not Watergate. Yet.
Even without the hard evidence of Watergate-level criminal acts (such as bribery), Trumpgate represents a mockery of governance, a haughty disregard for the Constitution, a profound disrespect for The People, an insult to millions of Americans who put their lives at risk (many who died doing so) to protect our democracy and freedom.
One feels soiled upon by a pretentious crook and pretender president. Democrats and patriots of all political affiliations must remedy the dark age of Trump. Beginning 2018, we must remove Republicans in Congress who have welcomed and give cover to Trump.
Trump is a puss-filled pimple; Republicans are the infection in the pore of The People. Let us unite to squeeze the pimple and clean out the infection.
Even without the hard evidence of Watergate-level criminal acts (such as bribery), Trumpgate represents a mockery of governance, a haughty disregard for the Constitution, a profound disrespect for The People, an insult to millions of Americans who put their lives at risk (many who died doing so) to protect our democracy and freedom.
One feels soiled upon by a pretentious crook and pretender president. Democrats and patriots of all political affiliations must remedy the dark age of Trump. Beginning 2018, we must remove Republicans in Congress who have welcomed and give cover to Trump.
Trump is a puss-filled pimple; Republicans are the infection in the pore of The People. Let us unite to squeeze the pimple and clean out the infection.
1
And how would we do that? Get 'them' to change their minds? Send them to re-education camps?
Trump may leave office, perhaps, but his supporters will remain. We need to see them as our fellow citizens, not as a problem to be solved.
Trump may leave office, perhaps, but his supporters will remain. We need to see them as our fellow citizens, not as a problem to be solved.
The way the Trump presidency is imploding under the weight of its own acts of transgression and misdemeanour, it wouldn't be long before the Congress under public pressure is left with no option but to demand impeachment.
1
There are chronological problems with the collusion conspiracy theory. According to the U.S. intelligence community, Russia meddling in the 2016 election consisted of a coordinated propaganda campaign and cyberattacks against Democratic National Committee computer servers.
• Putin’s vendetta against Hilary Clinton began in 2011, five years before there was a Trump campaign. It started when Clinton, as U.S. secretary of state, accused Putin of rigging Russia’s 2011 parliamentary election. Riots erupted in Moscow. Putin accused Clinton, who publically proclaimed her disdain for Putin, of giving “a signal” to anti-Putin demonstrators working “with the support of the U.S. State Department.” Putin simply stepped up the anti-Clinton campaign as the 2016 election approached
• The FBI first notified the Democratic National Committee of Russia’s intrusion in 2015, months before Trump announced his candidacy and began putting together a campaign team.
The U.S. intelligence community report concluded that Putin worked to undermine the Clinton campaign because he hatred Hillary. It also concluded that only Putin could have ordered the cyberattacks and disinformation campaign. Meanwhile, no one has explained what the Trump campaign might have done that constitutes collusion.
• Putin’s vendetta against Hilary Clinton began in 2011, five years before there was a Trump campaign. It started when Clinton, as U.S. secretary of state, accused Putin of rigging Russia’s 2011 parliamentary election. Riots erupted in Moscow. Putin accused Clinton, who publically proclaimed her disdain for Putin, of giving “a signal” to anti-Putin demonstrators working “with the support of the U.S. State Department.” Putin simply stepped up the anti-Clinton campaign as the 2016 election approached
• The FBI first notified the Democratic National Committee of Russia’s intrusion in 2015, months before Trump announced his candidacy and began putting together a campaign team.
The U.S. intelligence community report concluded that Putin worked to undermine the Clinton campaign because he hatred Hillary. It also concluded that only Putin could have ordered the cyberattacks and disinformation campaign. Meanwhile, no one has explained what the Trump campaign might have done that constitutes collusion.
4
Despite Trump's actions to date, which warrant impeachment-level concern, actual impeachment is effectively impossible prior to the 2018 election. Republicans will have some worry about Democratic anger, but poor historical turnout in midterm elections combined with their mendacious efforts to reduce voter turnout will keep them from firmly acting against their party's President.
16
To further sharpen C. Malek's point, even if Democrats regain control of both houses of Congress, it is still very difficult to see how we get to 67 votes necessary for conviction of impeachment articles that my be voted for in House. We are still a long way from Watergate.
"In contrast, current Republicans revel in tooth-and-claw partisanship. Democrats remain a largely powerless minority as Republican leaders pretend they have no grave doubts about Mr. Trump, hoping to survive next year’s elections despite his unpopularity."
The pain of blatant partisanship, this us versus them, is ripping apart our concept of democracy. Before our eyes, Congress and Trump are refusing to act on the behalf of the people who elected them. Their major concern is their return to office.
Mr. Mueller needs to proceed as thoroughly and quickly as he can to cure this awful abandonment of decency and honesty.
The pain of blatant partisanship, this us versus them, is ripping apart our concept of democracy. Before our eyes, Congress and Trump are refusing to act on the behalf of the people who elected them. Their major concern is their return to office.
Mr. Mueller needs to proceed as thoroughly and quickly as he can to cure this awful abandonment of decency and honesty.
24
No, not yet. But one can hope. One can even dream of getting Pence and Ryan as well, and a Democratic Senate in 2019 and a Democratic President pro tempore becoming POTUS. Perhaps too much to ask!
Liberals and progressives would do well to spend less time on hysteria about this president's daily outrages (which admittedly takes discipline) and more on how to get out the vote for their candidates in 2018. That means registering voters, forcibly opposing voter suppression in all its forms and helping candidates craft and stay on a message of hope and inclusion.
3
One of your recent contributors opined that high crimes and misdemeanors did not necessarily have to involve mere criminal acts. Others have opined that the 25th Amendment might provide a way to get rid of this blot on the character and the history of our nation. Yes, I agree that we must not let the long-term hope for his removal, by impeachment or be being declared unfit for office (there being little doubt about that latter) distract from the need to remind the public constantly of the failings of this man and his cronies. Still, how can we face the future if we don't have at least some tiny shred of hope? Oh, we don't? Where's the Kool-Aid!
I think you are absolutely right. This isn't Watergate. This is much worse. Watergate was just a domestic affair, and there were plenty of patriots in both parties to keep things from getting out of hand. Nowadays, the Republicans seem to think that it is okay to trade our national security for tax cuts. That could never have happened back in the seventies. It shows how dangerous the Republican party of today is. 2018 can't come soon enough.
4
The Trump presidency is far worse that Watergate. As someone else has said, the best that can be said for Trump is that he does not know anything.
Trump does not know what our laws are for or how they are made. He does not know why our government departments exist or what they do. He has no guiding morality, no experience with service to others, and no ability to appreciate the standing of America as the leader of the free world.
Trump surrounds himself with people selected to support his self-centered views, some artfully manipulating him to carry out their own agendas. Like him, they are con men, grifters, and exploiters operating at the edge of what is technically ''legal.'' Enormous damage is being done to immigrant communities, health care coverage, and a planet once again assaulted by unregulated polluters
This presidency will end badly, far worse than Nixon. There is no moderating force in the Republican Party, no group of senior leaders to go to the White House and tell Trump it is time to go. His line of succesors may be worse, as their contempt for our government is more studied.
Bad enough already, it is all downhill from here.
Trump does not know what our laws are for or how they are made. He does not know why our government departments exist or what they do. He has no guiding morality, no experience with service to others, and no ability to appreciate the standing of America as the leader of the free world.
Trump surrounds himself with people selected to support his self-centered views, some artfully manipulating him to carry out their own agendas. Like him, they are con men, grifters, and exploiters operating at the edge of what is technically ''legal.'' Enormous damage is being done to immigrant communities, health care coverage, and a planet once again assaulted by unregulated polluters
This presidency will end badly, far worse than Nixon. There is no moderating force in the Republican Party, no group of senior leaders to go to the White House and tell Trump it is time to go. His line of succesors may be worse, as their contempt for our government is more studied.
Bad enough already, it is all downhill from here.
4
Trump knew he had legal authority to fire the FBI director.
Trump just told senior officials from a hostile state highly classified intelligence from an ally. These same senior officials were involved in the Russian interference in the US election that made Trump president. Trump mocked the FBI director to them, the senior law enforcement official responsible for counterintelligence efforts in the US against Russian spies. Then Trump goes off to Saudi Arabia, the country where most of the 9/11 terrorists were from, and does a massive arms deal with the top US military technology sold in a business deal that sends huge profits to a supporter.
If treason and corruption don't matter anymore when there is a Republican president and a coverup, what does matter?
For a while, I prefer to cling to my illusions that justice will prevail, and that no one is above the law. Heroic judges have pushed back against Trump's unconstitutional actions despite his personal insults. Heroic journalists and whistle blowers are making a difference, bringing to light deals and actions done in the dark corners of this presidency. That is not just evidence for the law but clarity for history.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.
If treason and corruption don't matter anymore when there is a Republican president and a coverup, what does matter?
For a while, I prefer to cling to my illusions that justice will prevail, and that no one is above the law. Heroic judges have pushed back against Trump's unconstitutional actions despite his personal insults. Heroic journalists and whistle blowers are making a difference, bringing to light deals and actions done in the dark corners of this presidency. That is not just evidence for the law but clarity for history.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.
8
I think Mueller is the key to our sanity.
1
Isn't hacking into the DNC on par with burgularizing Democratic Headquarters. Hackers=Plumbers. This wasn't a bunch of Cubans, but Russians at the Behest of Putin and possibly Trump. How does Trumpgate not equal Watergate?
6
At trial, the Watergate burglars implicated ranking White House officials. The intelligence community assessment concluded that Russian intelligence agencies—not the Trump campaign or Trump associates—probably hacked the DNC email. It also concluded that only Putin—not Donald Trump—could have order the cyberattacks. However, the New York Times pointed out, “The report provides no new evidence to support assertions that Moscow meddled covertly through hacking and other actions to boost the electoral chances of Donald J. Trump and undermine his rival, Hillary Clinton, but rests instead on what it describes as Moscow’s long record of trying to influence America’s political system.” So the DNC hack was allegedly committed by Russia, not the Trump campaign. The U.S. Congress can't impeach Putin.
2
While we are not yet in Watergate land, there is one thing about Mr. Trump that has us much closer than we think: his emotional makeup. He is unable to have an "average" day. We are treated as a country like my wife treats the thermostat. If it's chilly in the house, she jacks it up to 85. If she's hot, she sets is to 60. A bit later, I am wondering why I am sweating or shivering, respectively.
Every deal for Mr. Trump is YUGE. Health care will be the best ever. America will be great again. We will build a fantastic wall. We will defeat ISIS in a month. Our economy will grow 4% or more each year. TWO chickens in every pot.
His oscillations may carry us to 2020 but at a cost just as surely as my HVAC bill is larger than I would like. I have toyed with the idea of moving the thermostat and putting a dummy in its place. I wonder if any West Wing functionaries have had the same idea. Or is that the purpose of the 25th amendment?
Every deal for Mr. Trump is YUGE. Health care will be the best ever. America will be great again. We will build a fantastic wall. We will defeat ISIS in a month. Our economy will grow 4% or more each year. TWO chickens in every pot.
His oscillations may carry us to 2020 but at a cost just as surely as my HVAC bill is larger than I would like. I have toyed with the idea of moving the thermostat and putting a dummy in its place. I wonder if any West Wing functionaries have had the same idea. Or is that the purpose of the 25th amendment?
1
The NYT can fret about how it should cover the non-story of the never-to-be impeachment of Trump, but the Saudis and the Chinese know how to treat a winner with the respect that he deserves. Obama is still the darling of the press. We breathlessly comment on his cool leather jacket he and how he has taken to carrying his own bag while it is fondly noted that Michelle now bags her own lunch. It is all so quaint this effort to build up a non-entity who did not have a clue on the world stage. The Chinese saw right through him and made him exit from the rear of his plane--a humiliation he could not hide even though he went down the steps skippingly and snapping his fingers in his usual affected fashion. And the last time he visited Saudi Arabia he was greeted by a low level official. But to his addled fan club he is one of the greatest, and Trump, of course, is mentally ill as he wheels and deals with the world.
3
@ed
Did it occur to you that Chinese are treating Trump well because they think they can do "business" with him by currying favor with him? You know, approving trademarks that Trump sought and such?
The Chinese, of course, calculated correctly in that there is no more talk of labeling China a currency manipulator or "tough" trade talk.
On the other hand, Obama pushed for Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) which excluded China and would have had a detrimental impact on them. Trump, to the delight of the Chinese, withdrew from TPP. Why wouldn't China treat Trump nicely?
As for the Saudis, their fight with Iran is not our fight. So, Obama did what he thought was the best interests of the US and the world by signing an agreement with Iran on its nuclear efforts. It also probably didn't please the Saudis that Obama didn't do enough to stop the Congress from enabling 9/11 victims and their families to sue the government of Saudi Arabia.
Ironically, allegedly "foreign-born" Obama was looking out for the US interests than the "native-born" Trump, who seem to want to give away the store to the Russians, Chinese, Saudis, Turkey and on and on.
Imagine the outcry if, under Obama's watch, Turkish security had pummeled American demonstrators, as they did recently, in Washington DC, no less?
Did it occur to you that Chinese are treating Trump well because they think they can do "business" with him by currying favor with him? You know, approving trademarks that Trump sought and such?
The Chinese, of course, calculated correctly in that there is no more talk of labeling China a currency manipulator or "tough" trade talk.
On the other hand, Obama pushed for Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) which excluded China and would have had a detrimental impact on them. Trump, to the delight of the Chinese, withdrew from TPP. Why wouldn't China treat Trump nicely?
As for the Saudis, their fight with Iran is not our fight. So, Obama did what he thought was the best interests of the US and the world by signing an agreement with Iran on its nuclear efforts. It also probably didn't please the Saudis that Obama didn't do enough to stop the Congress from enabling 9/11 victims and their families to sue the government of Saudi Arabia.
Ironically, allegedly "foreign-born" Obama was looking out for the US interests than the "native-born" Trump, who seem to want to give away the store to the Russians, Chinese, Saudis, Turkey and on and on.
Imagine the outcry if, under Obama's watch, Turkish security had pummeled American demonstrators, as they did recently, in Washington DC, no less?
Your sarcasm is even better than the Bard! I'm awed!
So you look to the Chinese and the Saudis to let you know who is a great leader? Maybe the North Koreans will also welcome Trump.
1
We are way past Watergate! Trump and his Trumpettes in congress are out of control.
7
In the last two sentences the Editorial Board evinces it real interest here:
To win back one of two houses in Congress; maybe both. And in four years, to win back the presidency.
"Sorry deeds" - indeed!
To win back one of two houses in Congress; maybe both. And in four years, to win back the presidency.
"Sorry deeds" - indeed!
After hearing brilliant attorneys on the subject, there is no case for impeachment in this case.
1
I hope the media might look into how many special prosecutors have been appointed and why, along with resulting charges, convictions and removals. We need a little context whih some background would provide.
Not yet agreeing with David Gergen and Senator John McCain that we are in "impeachment territory" now. Deeper investigations (and maybe a "Deep Throat" Redux from Watergate) will tell the tale of whether or not President Trump obstructed justice. Nixon resigned while he was on the cusp of impeachment in 1974. President Trump's whisperers, strategic advisers and eminences grises are the kind of sycophants we witnessed in Watergate. Is criminality afoot with Trump's obdurately partisan base? The Republican party is in control of the houses of Congress and the Supreme Court may be bending like the wise bamboo toward the party in power. The Democratic Party, still reeling from their loss of the Presidency in November, 2016, must secure subpoena power (through a majority in the Congress or Senate) to investigate President Trump's awful deeds since long nefore he became our President and in the past 100+ days of his administration. The yellow brick road ahead for Trump and his coterie is not a slam dunk or a walk in the park. But the truth (if not a "witch hunt") will out and prevail sooner or later, and if impeachment is the way to remove our 45th President from office, that is what will occur. As long as Donald Trump remains President, our national interest and democracy are at stake.
19
As if under the control of a single central authority the liberal press has suddenly changed its tune and is now recommending caution instead of rushing to judgment--as if an orchestrated attempt to modify its image will restore its reputation or somehow render it fit to cover a story which it has already blown. It's Watergate alright, but this time the cover-up is by the press.
2
Not at all. The clamor from the press was for a special counsel, who has now been appointed to bipartisan praise. So now the analyses concentrate on "what next?" That is not a sudden change of tune, it's following new developments. And I don't see a cover-up either. Of what, exactly?
It may not be Watergate in terms of scale and scope, but the same elements are present in this situation.
Unlike Watergate, when Nixon and his administration weren't quite forthcoming, Trump either tweets or talks or his administration itself leaks critical information that implicates Trump and his associates.
Keep in mind that Trump himself asked Russians to hack into Clinton's emails.
He hired Flynn despite being told of Flynn's problems and kept Flynn on despite warnings from Sally Yates. Why? To keep him quiet?
Trump fired Preet Bharara despite initial assurances after the election that he could continue to remain US Attorney of Easter District. Why? To keep him from pursuing some of the Russian connections as has been reported?
Trump fired Sally Yates, ostensibly for her failure to support the travel ban. But it sure looks like her being a bad news bearer about Mike Flynn may have something to do with it.
Trump fired Comey, initially attributed to Comey's mishandling of the Clinton email investigation, but later confirmed by the president himself in the NBC interview and his confession to the Russians that it had to with the Russia investigation.
In terms of money, one of Trump's children mentioned that lots of Russian money is pouring into their business.
Don't forget that the Russian fertilizer king, Dmitry Rybolovlev, bought a property from Trump for almost double what Trump paid for it.
It's a matter of time before Mueller connects the dots.
Unlike Watergate, when Nixon and his administration weren't quite forthcoming, Trump either tweets or talks or his administration itself leaks critical information that implicates Trump and his associates.
Keep in mind that Trump himself asked Russians to hack into Clinton's emails.
He hired Flynn despite being told of Flynn's problems and kept Flynn on despite warnings from Sally Yates. Why? To keep him quiet?
Trump fired Preet Bharara despite initial assurances after the election that he could continue to remain US Attorney of Easter District. Why? To keep him from pursuing some of the Russian connections as has been reported?
Trump fired Sally Yates, ostensibly for her failure to support the travel ban. But it sure looks like her being a bad news bearer about Mike Flynn may have something to do with it.
Trump fired Comey, initially attributed to Comey's mishandling of the Clinton email investigation, but later confirmed by the president himself in the NBC interview and his confession to the Russians that it had to with the Russia investigation.
In terms of money, one of Trump's children mentioned that lots of Russian money is pouring into their business.
Don't forget that the Russian fertilizer king, Dmitry Rybolovlev, bought a property from Trump for almost double what Trump paid for it.
It's a matter of time before Mueller connects the dots.
3
There is no proof of criminality. This is true, and it is repeated ad nauseum by Trump's defenders. However, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that points to a crime far larger than watergate.
I am not the first to say that it is extremely likely that Trump agreed to lift the sanctions against Russia in exchange for some kind of a favor. What, precisely, this favor was will determine whether Trump merely leaves the white house in disgrace, or in handcuffs.
There is no proof of it yet. It is possible that there will never be proof, but, there is so much smoke billowing out of the Trump administration that it strains credibility to think that there is no fire.
I am not the first to say that it is extremely likely that Trump agreed to lift the sanctions against Russia in exchange for some kind of a favor. What, precisely, this favor was will determine whether Trump merely leaves the white house in disgrace, or in handcuffs.
There is no proof of it yet. It is possible that there will never be proof, but, there is so much smoke billowing out of the Trump administration that it strains credibility to think that there is no fire.
2
Surprised by this editorial, because with Watergate, the original sin was a low-grade burglary, followed by obstruction of justice. Trump et al are accused of a far more serious crime- colluding with the enemy to win the Presidency, and then obstruction of justice. I see the current situation as far more serious than Watergate.
8
I disagree. Watergate didn't have the effort to destroy our public schools, poison our air, deny health care to our citizens, or a President played by the Russians. Nixon disgusted me, Trump terrifies me. Not even close.
9
Stop talking about impeachment. Trump's personality disorders are enough to remove him from office. This man is unfit to be president. Lawyers, explain to me why this can't or won't be done. Unfitness is a black and white issue. Impeachment is a political process.
3
Not there yet? No, we are way past that point. Nixon needed to be removed because he was a criminal, not because he actually presented a clear and present danger to the nation and the world. In Trump's case, it is not a matter of how, but how fast can it be done. We will not be wondering whether his discussion with the Russians was a confession or not if we end up destroying ourselves or the planet. Let's stop debating and angels and pinheads and get rid of this one.
2
Agreed this is not terribly similar to Watergate.
It has the potential to deflate into a nothing burger like the Whitewater investigation by Ken Starr or to inflate into something much worse than Watergate: active participation with Russian agents in the destabilization of this country.
Trump is largely at fault for this mushrooming cloud over the White House. This is where comparison to Watergate is most apt: the cover up is often the problem.
A responsible, self-assured and mature President Trump would put the Russian interference at the top of his foreign agenda. He would demand a prompt but thorough investigation and come up with both reactive and counter measures to insure that Russia knows that such interference is not productive. Sanctions and increased cyber warfare readiness would be minimal measures expected.
Unfortunately, from the beginning Trump has acted more like a man with something to hide. And, in so doing, he has not only increased suspicions but also ceded leadership on cyber warfare readiness. This neither good for the country or him.
Trump needs to listen to advisors and stop with the Twitter. And start acting like a leader instead of a guilty perp.
It has the potential to deflate into a nothing burger like the Whitewater investigation by Ken Starr or to inflate into something much worse than Watergate: active participation with Russian agents in the destabilization of this country.
Trump is largely at fault for this mushrooming cloud over the White House. This is where comparison to Watergate is most apt: the cover up is often the problem.
A responsible, self-assured and mature President Trump would put the Russian interference at the top of his foreign agenda. He would demand a prompt but thorough investigation and come up with both reactive and counter measures to insure that Russia knows that such interference is not productive. Sanctions and increased cyber warfare readiness would be minimal measures expected.
Unfortunately, from the beginning Trump has acted more like a man with something to hide. And, in so doing, he has not only increased suspicions but also ceded leadership on cyber warfare readiness. This neither good for the country or him.
Trump needs to listen to advisors and stop with the Twitter. And start acting like a leader instead of a guilty perp.
8
What he needs to do is admit that he's not up to the job and go home.
No we're not there and we're not going to get there because as many have pointed out the chances of impeachment are slim indeed. That leaves the Democrats, who are over investing in this folly in dire need of a platform to run on in 2018, because being "not trump" is not enough. They weren't good enough to beat Donald trump in 2016 and they're not good enough now.
11
A Trump resignation is more likely than impeachment. Once the requisite evidence can be compiled against Trump, he will "settle" this case by withdrawing like he does in civil court. The gravity of his situation will not be real to him until he is faced with possible criminal charges. It will be 'must see' tv.
11
My personal hope is that he will stumble along for another few years, hamstrung by ridicule and a special counsel investigation, and get impeached later. If it is too early we get Pence, who might actually be able to get some of the reactionary agenda through. Better a manic bumbler than an evil genie.
12
Removing Trump from office would be a mistake. What would we talk about?
4
Oh don't worry, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo, HuffPo et all will think of something. I just watched that little ankle-biter Stephanopoulos on TV this morning and I'm sure that he would continue to make gigantic assumptions and then ask people to defend positions that he has put in their mouths. What a little weenie.
During the era of the Watergate investigations we had articulate and talented members of Congress, an executive branch filled with highly experienced and competent officials (notwithstanding the malfeasance at the upper levels which perpetrated the scandal and led to the justified departure of the president who could not stop trying to cover up his misdeeds), a robust independent press heavily invested in in-depth investigative reporting, and political parties that were not decrepit dysfunctional disasters. We are indeed now a long way from Watergate.
41
The Deputy Attorney General Rob Rosenstein appointed Robert Mueller as a Special Counsel and he and his staff’s findings will be delivered to the Attorney General’s office when completed.
What the Attorney General’s Office decides to release to the public of those findings is their prerogative so we may be a long way away from The Story.
Pray for a Deep Throat if you're looking for revelation-- or Justice.
What the Attorney General’s Office decides to release to the public of those findings is their prerogative so we may be a long way away from The Story.
Pray for a Deep Throat if you're looking for revelation-- or Justice.
6
What Trump and crew may have been up to is potentially far worse than Watergate. To allegedly collude with the most adversarial foreign power is at the very least anti-American and in the worst case, an act of high treason. Let's wait and see what we find out from Mueller. If the Republicans don't act on any adverse findings before 2018, the people certainly will in 2018.
9
"Allegedly colluding" isn't a crime. The though of a prosecutor asking a jury to convict a defendant because he "allegedly" committed a crime is amusing. There was no "alleging" during Watergate. Five operatives paid by the Nixon reelection campaign were caught red-handed breaking into Democratic National Headquarters. At trial, they implicated ranking White House officials. Oval Office tapes reveal Nixon ordered his subordinates to lie to federal investigates.
1
Yes it is not watergate yet. However, Watergate was about domestic crimes. If it turns out that our nation's secrets were compromised for the sake of winning the election and our arch enemy is holding big leverage over what our foreign policy should be then, this should become bigger than Watergate. Unfortunately, Dems don't have the subpoena power and thus are powerless to expose the true facts. Conversely, it seems like the Administration is already planning to derail the Mueller investigation by various means including claiming "conflict of interest." And most Republicans seem fine with that. Very sad state of affair indeed.
52
Surviving Trump’s unpopularity, just in 2018, will require that undivided Republican governance actually produce something that moves us forward – not that its practitioners successfully distance themselves from Trump. The people who put Trump over the top and unexpectedly elected him were disaffected traditional Democrats: it won’t take much for them to conclude that regardless of how dissatisfied they are with how establishment politics failed them for eight years, if what we have isn’t doing better they may as well vote their consciences and toss the rascals out.
Republicans need to produce something useful. Reducing taxes has a vast constituency, the blindness on the left to this evident fact notwithstanding. That we’re an over-regulated society and need to re-impose some sanity on the limits on behavior and commerce is salable as well. We need to formulate a comprehensive immigration policy that attracts the kinds of skills we need to fill jobs we’ve proven inept at preparing our own people to fill – and some kind of a “wall” needs to be built to make real a distinction between what “immigration” is and what “invasion” is. Making a real attempt at solving healthcare strategically for America, instead of a simplistic and wrong-headed AHCA that seeks to eliminate an entitlement after millions have come to depend on it, alone could cement a resolve by those fence-sitters to continue supporting such evidence of effectiveness.
Republicans need to produce something useful. Reducing taxes has a vast constituency, the blindness on the left to this evident fact notwithstanding. That we’re an over-regulated society and need to re-impose some sanity on the limits on behavior and commerce is salable as well. We need to formulate a comprehensive immigration policy that attracts the kinds of skills we need to fill jobs we’ve proven inept at preparing our own people to fill – and some kind of a “wall” needs to be built to make real a distinction between what “immigration” is and what “invasion” is. Making a real attempt at solving healthcare strategically for America, instead of a simplistic and wrong-headed AHCA that seeks to eliminate an entitlement after millions have come to depend on it, alone could cement a resolve by those fence-sitters to continue supporting such evidence of effectiveness.
2
No, it’s not Watergate – and won’t get there. But this misses the point. Trump isn’t going to be impeached: he’s going to be our president for at least four years. But there’s no guarantee of undivided Republican government beyond 2018. If Republicans want it, they’d better start earning it.
1
We just need to let freeloaders be sloppy, messy corner-cutting deadbeats?
Such a plan, Richard.
Such a plan, Richard.
Seems to me that Americans have a peculiar notion about what should and shouldn't be considered grounds for impeachment. Congress initiated impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton due to his lies concerning sexual indiscretions in the Oval Office.
On the other hand, lies about WMD in Iraq by George W. Bush that took the US into what most of the world still today consider to have been an illegal war of aggression were not deemed to rise to the level of being an impeachable offence.
Now Trump offers Congress a broad range of crimes and misdemeanours that could easily be considered impeachable from breaches of the emoluments clause to espionage, yet again a partisan congress fails to act in what is clearly the national interest. The world's greatest deliberative body indeed! It's an international joke. I don't understand how Americans aren't embarrassed.
On the other hand, lies about WMD in Iraq by George W. Bush that took the US into what most of the world still today consider to have been an illegal war of aggression were not deemed to rise to the level of being an impeachable offence.
Now Trump offers Congress a broad range of crimes and misdemeanours that could easily be considered impeachable from breaches of the emoluments clause to espionage, yet again a partisan congress fails to act in what is clearly the national interest. The world's greatest deliberative body indeed! It's an international joke. I don't understand how Americans aren't embarrassed.
12
Some of us are embarrassed.
This is the same New York Times that last year did not see any issue in claiming in so many of its news stories and op-ed pieces that unverified "emails" from the Clinton campaign were factual.
So, excuse me for viewing this editorial as ever so "slightly" hypocritical for thinking the Democratic Party and all good citizens of this country should just stay silent and not pursue something that is becoming clearly factual.
So, excuse me for viewing this editorial as ever so "slightly" hypocritical for thinking the Democratic Party and all good citizens of this country should just stay silent and not pursue something that is becoming clearly factual.
10
Nope.
Watergate was a small burglary and a plot to gain information about the opposing party.
That's peanuts compared to what might be going on with Trump.
Collusion with an enemy power in espionage against the US and undermining a National Election? And obstruction of justice to cover it up?
That's what's at stake with Trump.
Watergate is nothing compared to that.
Watergate was a small burglary and a plot to gain information about the opposing party.
That's peanuts compared to what might be going on with Trump.
Collusion with an enemy power in espionage against the US and undermining a National Election? And obstruction of justice to cover it up?
That's what's at stake with Trump.
Watergate is nothing compared to that.
21
Meaning what, in terms of seriousness and threat to the guts of our democracy: separation of powers, unimpeded justice, faithfully executing the duties of the presidency, independence from foreign financial obligation or influence, I could go on?
This is bigger and more serious than Watergate. Everyone in the Trump administration is tainted, and some including the VICE PRESIDENT and ATTORNEY GENERAL are, quite simply, totally complicit in the president's nefariousness.
Very disappointing editorial, which demonstrates the lack of independence the Times has from its shareholders and Wall Street in general. Elites need to be reassured that the ship isn't sinking. How can it be blatantly obvious to millions of Americans yet the Times simply doesn't see it?
This is bigger and more serious than Watergate. Everyone in the Trump administration is tainted, and some including the VICE PRESIDENT and ATTORNEY GENERAL are, quite simply, totally complicit in the president's nefariousness.
Very disappointing editorial, which demonstrates the lack of independence the Times has from its shareholders and Wall Street in general. Elites need to be reassured that the ship isn't sinking. How can it be blatantly obvious to millions of Americans yet the Times simply doesn't see it?
7
Agreed. And Dems better quit focusing on the imperfector-in-chief's legal/ethical failings and instead focus on the Repubs killing of government and redistribution of the national treasury to the 1%. The Dems banked on focusing almost solely on the utter failure of a human being aka Donald J. Trump during the campaign and look where that got them. Vision for America's middle class, please. Jobs, infrastructure, renewable energy, climate change as a national security issue, etc. And let us know how you intend on protecting Social Security and Medicare from those vultures. The Dems miight also want to paint the contrast between D's and R's that is so profoundly evident now with healthcare. Healthcare as a right, and R's don't think it is (Their argument has something to do with designating it as a right means that the fed. govt. has to facilitate it's provision. Don't know why that's such an issue, because in so many EU countries and Canada this is the case, and their respective populations are content with it.)
6
Hillary Clinton had a clear and detailed vision on all of the topics you mention on her web site, that she referred to multiple times during the debates. Not that I saw any serious analysis of her and Trump's platforms in the media... They treated the elections like a sports competition instead.
No, we are not there yet. But, as things stand now we are heading there and beyond at breakneck speed. Richard Nixon was a "politician" - Trump is not and could never be one. There were many times in Nixon's life when money was scarce, and Trump has never known such times. I do not believe that Nixon would ever have referred to any high-level government employee as a "nut case" - at least not in public. Nixon considered himself a public servant. Trump could not possibly consider himself to be a servant for anyone. And the list goes on. It is interesting to consider Watergate, but "Trump's Tragedy" will likely have more serious and long-lasting effect on the whole country. Just wait - we are just getting started.........
12
It looks like it, it smells like it, it feels like it. But "not there yet," only because there's not yet concrete proof, such as Nixon's tapes, to nail it. If and when that proof comes down, this will make Watergate look like college boys at a panty raid.
12
Watergate was essentially about one political campaign breaking in to steal information from an opponent, with the inent to use it To influence the election of 1972. The crime was made worse by the attempts to cover it up.
Now we have a case where a foreign power, a declared enemy of the US, stole information about one political campaign to use to influence the election of 2016. We know that the person who won that election, Trump, made public statements in support of Russian hackers and Wikileaks, the organization that disseminated the stolen information. We know that Trump has had questionable business deals with Russian businessmen and money launderers for decades. We know that know that the Trump campaign met repeatedly with Russian agents and attempted to cover up those meetings. Trump has since revealed classified information with these agents, information that came from our allies and may endanger their intelligence network.
These events may well exceed the crimes of Watergate. They certainly exceed the 'crimes' the GOP claimed Bill Clinton had committed when they brought impeachment proceedings against him for his indiscretions with Monica Lewinsky.
It may be early in Trump's term, but he has definitely given the country enough reason to investigate his actions and to carefully and responsibly begin impeachment proceedings. we can only hope that the current GOP-dominated system is capable of doing this without becoming part of the greater cover up themselves.
Now we have a case where a foreign power, a declared enemy of the US, stole information about one political campaign to use to influence the election of 2016. We know that the person who won that election, Trump, made public statements in support of Russian hackers and Wikileaks, the organization that disseminated the stolen information. We know that Trump has had questionable business deals with Russian businessmen and money launderers for decades. We know that know that the Trump campaign met repeatedly with Russian agents and attempted to cover up those meetings. Trump has since revealed classified information with these agents, information that came from our allies and may endanger their intelligence network.
These events may well exceed the crimes of Watergate. They certainly exceed the 'crimes' the GOP claimed Bill Clinton had committed when they brought impeachment proceedings against him for his indiscretions with Monica Lewinsky.
It may be early in Trump's term, but he has definitely given the country enough reason to investigate his actions and to carefully and responsibly begin impeachment proceedings. we can only hope that the current GOP-dominated system is capable of doing this without becoming part of the greater cover up themselves.
20
We don't "know" any of these things.
1
Apart from a Democrat-led Congress back then, Richard Nixon lacked charisma and didn't have the Fox News, Breitbart, InfoWars etc. on his side. Trump knows that his main survival tactic is to pander to his diehard supporters on Twitter. Fox News and others rely on these viewers to generate revenues. As long as Trump still has his support base, these far right media outlets won't drop him.
Unlike Trump, Nixon didn't collude with a hostile foreign power. But he is said to be much hated - a political monster. Contemporaries said he could shake your hand and stab you in the back at the same time. He lied to his friends and betrayed the trust of his family. Trump is not there yet, because he has only been four months in office.
Unlike Trump, Nixon didn't collude with a hostile foreign power. But he is said to be much hated - a political monster. Contemporaries said he could shake your hand and stab you in the back at the same time. He lied to his friends and betrayed the trust of his family. Trump is not there yet, because he has only been four months in office.
4
But when you look at it from the viewpoint that the difference is between a domestic burglary versus enabling foreign espionage and its implications, a new tall bar has been established.
11
Finally, a little sanity! Democrats have no idea how insane they sound talking as if Trump will be gone by Christmas. The absolute best case scenario Democrats can hope for will be a few aides who get disgraced, and another scandal Trump's base doesn't care about. Get that through your skulls: there is virtually no way Trump gets impeached over 'Russia'.
Because Democrats are so obsessively focused on Russia they are missing opportunities to talk about his deregulation, the pervasive GOP tax cuts on the way, the sheer quantity of poisoned drinking water in the US, income inequality, the still-crumbling American healthcare system, etc.
Progressives have been openly warning party-loyalist Democrats that they have lost touch with reality for two full years now, and to no avail. Even after the monumental incompetence of the Clinton campaign Democrats STILL seem to think that personality attacks and conspiracy theories will get them back into power. They're wrong. Democrats need to offer clear, positive and workable solutions to the very real problems America faces today. They aren't doing that, and these days are sounding every bit as unhinged as Republicans.
Stop talking about Russia until the investigation comes up with something solid. Until then talk about universal healthcare, income inequality, better wages, and affordable education. That is.....if your donors let you.
Because Democrats are so obsessively focused on Russia they are missing opportunities to talk about his deregulation, the pervasive GOP tax cuts on the way, the sheer quantity of poisoned drinking water in the US, income inequality, the still-crumbling American healthcare system, etc.
Progressives have been openly warning party-loyalist Democrats that they have lost touch with reality for two full years now, and to no avail. Even after the monumental incompetence of the Clinton campaign Democrats STILL seem to think that personality attacks and conspiracy theories will get them back into power. They're wrong. Democrats need to offer clear, positive and workable solutions to the very real problems America faces today. They aren't doing that, and these days are sounding every bit as unhinged as Republicans.
Stop talking about Russia until the investigation comes up with something solid. Until then talk about universal healthcare, income inequality, better wages, and affordable education. That is.....if your donors let you.
23
Exactly. All this hysteria about (so far) unfounded allegations 1. Discredits the democrats and 2. Feeds the Trump supporter's ideas of there being a "liberal" conspiracy against them. I did see one article listing all the bills that he been put forward, dismantling environmental protections, healthcare etc that had been put forward (with little acknowledgement) while one of the Trump scandals was rumbling on. It's very easy to get distracted by all the noise, but ultimately it benefits Trump and his agenda
unfortunately most voters don't understand policy issues. they form their opinions from biased cable news and denigrating campaign ads. they don't read newspapers and do not like to hear dissenting opinions. the republicans win because they get people to believe they are the party of the real americans. it is this lie that the Democrats to prove to middle America
In February the NYT gave several experts of psychiatry the opportunity to analyze Trump’s mental conditions. On the other side it might also be enlightening to ask a social psychologist to analyse the anti-Russian paranoia that sweeps through the American society, its media and its politics. Where does it come from, how is it being used and by whom. Is it to some extent justified, and this would require some real evidence and not speculation, or is Russia simply a scapegoat for something else?
5
Let me see Crimea, Ukraine, Georgia, threatening the Baltic countries, meddling in our election, is that enough because that is only a partial list.
1
It takes only a quick look at history, at the wholesale abuse and uncontrolled rape of German women at the end of WWII, at the brutality of the Afghan occupation, at the clandestine torture of soldiers in VietNam, at the consistent and arbitrary abuse of power at the UN to prevent the slaughter of races and the terrible carnage in Syria to know they are the world's enemy.
They were the evil empire, and when they fell, we in our "christian" stupidity helped them get up again. Now they are that same empire again, for the 21st century, the cyber century, with an ego-maniacal ex-spy who revels in the secretive exploitation of other governments.
Even the faintest whiff of interference in our democratic process must be investigated to the fullest.
They were the evil empire, and when they fell, we in our "christian" stupidity helped them get up again. Now they are that same empire again, for the 21st century, the cyber century, with an ego-maniacal ex-spy who revels in the secretive exploitation of other governments.
Even the faintest whiff of interference in our democratic process must be investigated to the fullest.
1
"When the President does it, that means that it is not illegal".
4
No we are not there yet. Watergate was a crime first then investigation this with Trump is an investigation looking for a crime totally different. The Democrats have embarked on a propaganda war with no evidence at all. The Democrats want something to hang on Trump but cannot find anything even with the leaks nothing has shown up. Until they come to terms that Hillary lost and it had nothing to do with Trump and Russians this war will continue. The Democrats will pay a heavy price in 2018 because outside the beltway no one really believes them after all this time of no there there.
3
Breaking into the DNC - a cyber burglary - was a crime.
I am tired of this system--let's call it "neoliberal secular materialism"--in which the highest ethical good is always reduced to who can be the most jingoistic, the most "Constitutional," as defined by whatever patriotism and constitutionality mean to those wanting to hold power. What is "right" if these terms just keep being moved around and redefined, depending on who wants to make an argument for their "right" to hold power? How does anything of meaning, of deep meaning, really occur, if we keep playing this game of "I am more patriotic!" "No I am more patriotic!" over and over again? How is this any more ethical than Trump changing his mind ever minute to suit his narcissistic needs? And why must everyone's lives be completely thrown into chaos so a few arrogant, narcissistic brats can play "I'm so important" with billions of dollars and pat themselves on the back by doing so? The point of this system, if there is one, seems to be support the god awful egos of the super rich at the expense of the vast majority of the population.
1
Now the NYT which has been stirring the pot with its fake news reporting is suddenly suggesting that we wait until the facts come in. What a novel idea. In the meantime we continue to be barraged with leaks from unnamed sources and "American officials" which, even if taken at face value, do not amount to an impeachable offense. All standards of journalistic reporting have been compromised by the visceral hatred of Trump, and the NYT and other formerly great news organizations will never be the same. Fox has won.
3
Hey Ed, do you have an opinion on the Grifter’s mouthful of insane comments?
Or is he perfect for you?
Or is he perfect for you?
This sudden change in tone and strategy is an embarrassment to the Left and an admission on their part that they have gone too far. The constant name calling and offensive characterization of Trump that are all too apparent even in the NYT comments sections not only speak ill of the Left but exacerbate the divisions in this country. The smugness and stupidity of these remarks only proves that the Left is just as filled with intellectual and moral Yahoos as the Right. Some country. Some people. Is this the best we can do?
6
Still, it would be hard to run against Trump and his record in 2018 if he were to leave office before then...
Trump's possibly fatal wounds are self-inflicted and the result of his own words. The tweets, the audio and video recordings do not lie. White House officials are so alarmed by Trump's reckless behavior they have elected to become whistle-blowers by exposing Trump's follies and words to the press on an almost daily basis.
And then there's Maxine Waters....
3
Voter turnout often decides many elections. The party that most successfully motivates its supporters to vote wins the election (not always but often).
Appeals to rationality, fair play, passionless policy ... these are not the things that motivate much of the electorate. People are motivated when they are emotionally engaged.
DEMs are trying to maintain the current high emotional engagement until 2018. In the world of politics this is a LONG way away.
In a game where winning is all that counts, DEMs may be doing the right thing to keep the emotional level as high as possible for as long as possible, because once it drops it will be very difficult to raise it again. If the momentum is lost now far too many people will feel disempowered altogether and ignore attempts to revive their interest in 2018.
Appeals to rationality, fair play, passionless policy ... these are not the things that motivate much of the electorate. People are motivated when they are emotionally engaged.
DEMs are trying to maintain the current high emotional engagement until 2018. In the world of politics this is a LONG way away.
In a game where winning is all that counts, DEMs may be doing the right thing to keep the emotional level as high as possible for as long as possible, because once it drops it will be very difficult to raise it again. If the momentum is lost now far too many people will feel disempowered altogether and ignore attempts to revive their interest in 2018.
The Deputy Attorney General appointed the Special Prosecutor and his and his staff’s findings will be delivered to that office when completed. What the Attorney General’s Office decides to release to the public of those findings is their prerogative so we may be a long way away from The Story.
Pray for a Deep Throat if your are looking for revelation-- or Justice.
Pray for a Deep Throat if your are looking for revelation-- or Justice.
2
With Watergate, Scooter Libby, and so many other political cases, it's the cover-up, not the crime, that proves fatal. The firing of Comey is the closest thing to a cover-up here. But it would only pass muster if we knew that Trump's purpose was to obstruct the investigation. That may be true, but we do not know that beyond a reasonable doubt. And so evidence of a Trump cover up remains speculative.
1
Even Senator Feinstein said the other day on CNN that she still hasn't seen evidence of collusion. That comports with what former DNI Director Clapper and Assistant FBI Director Andrew McCabe have said. The media's desperate hope that evidence will turn up is likely to be unfulfilled, though in the end the media will never accept a conclusion that there was no collusion - whether such conclusion comes from the Special Counsel or the Congressional Committees. And don't expect obstruction to go very far either. There are too many possible benign interpretations of Trump's statements to prove obstruction. In the end, financial crimes on the part of one or more Trumpworld people are the most likely finding - leaving impeachment a pipe dream.
1
It's vital that Democrats not be distracted. Trump is a master magician at distraction. It is one of his tools in trade. Twitter is his primary means.
It is also vital that The Times and other media not be distracted. Remember the Steele Russia dossier? Several items in it have since been corroborated. Do you still have investigative staff working on the other parts? And remember how it may dovetail with his taxes. Who's working on that?
We're depending on you.
It is also vital that The Times and other media not be distracted. Remember the Steele Russia dossier? Several items in it have since been corroborated. Do you still have investigative staff working on the other parts? And remember how it may dovetail with his taxes. Who's working on that?
We're depending on you.
5
Joe McCarthy is smiling somewhere. Nice to see the NYT take a step back and offer a reasoned opinion. Let's see where the investigation leads. And let's see the Ds make an effort at the state and local level in coming elections.
Do you know what institution failed us, more than everything else? The Electoral college. They failed to do their screening duty and rubber stamped an unqualified charlatan.
3
"Republican leaders pretend they have no grave doubts about Mr. Trump, hoping to survive next year’s elections despite his unpopularity."
Well guess what, Republicans. In every upcoming special election and in the general election in November 2018, a vote for you is a vote in favor of Donald Trump as president.
[The Republicans themselves have made that clear. Every day the Gerrymandering Obstructionist Party shoves in our faces its willingness to give him a total pass in the name of crass party advantage. (And yet, with control of both Houses of Congress, the GOP can't accomplish anything.)]
From your stinking pair of fish heads on down, Congressional GOP, you need to be tossed out.
Well guess what, Republicans. In every upcoming special election and in the general election in November 2018, a vote for you is a vote in favor of Donald Trump as president.
[The Republicans themselves have made that clear. Every day the Gerrymandering Obstructionist Party shoves in our faces its willingness to give him a total pass in the name of crass party advantage. (And yet, with control of both Houses of Congress, the GOP can't accomplish anything.)]
From your stinking pair of fish heads on down, Congressional GOP, you need to be tossed out.
5
A sexual dalliance between two consulting adults should not be an impeachable offense. Nixon's offenses clearly were grounds for impeachment. It was a shame that his paranoia deprived us of his considerable grasp of foreign matters. Reagan is a harder call. It is somewhat laughable to consider him as a mastermind, but if he had knowledge of Iran-contra, it was quite serious. I think the Democrats took pity on an old man with a failing mind. Let's see...anyone else in that category?
6
Good grief. No one died because of Bill Clintons affairs. Iran-Contra, how many?
5
Let Trump hang around awhile. His malfeasance is motivating us to learn more about some of the interesting details in the Constitution such as: the prohibition on foreign emoluments; the 25 Amendment; and, the definition of treason. In addition, as an editorial in these pages pointed out, impeachment is a political action not a criminal judgement, and this important point needs to be better understood by the public and the "experts". So let us all learn from this. And in the end, let us celebrate the brilliance of our Constitution which provides a process and reasons to depose this would be tyrant.
2
It may not be Watergate yet but it's a bigger story than Hillary's use of a private server.
5
The bigger question is why so many liberals (despite continued calls) are not using their energy to promote new candidates and voices in the party. Where are Bernie Sanders and his followers? This is their time to create a grass roots revolution. Instead the left has taken on the role of the old right substituting Trump for Hillary. Surely we can do better.
Like today's NY Times accompanying article, dispelling the comparison of Trump to a four year old, so should too much current reference to Watergate. Nixon's Watergate and Trump's whatever-it-is, attract undue comparison when viewed against their background eras, separated by almost half a century. As well, Trump and Nixon are two very different cats who play very different games. Even Watergate wouldn't be Watergate today and Trump's situation will not play out predictively on Nixon's template. The comparison conjures up the old fallacy of WWII being fought as WWI.
Some sanity from the Times. Currently, most of the "facts" have no support except so called reliable, unidentified sources. Sure, Flynn may have violated some technical reporting laws, and seems to be a loose cannon but that's it. Well, Flynn is history. Time to slow way, way down. And time for still respected media, the few, to require several sources for every new revelation. It's clear that this President has many enemies within the standing intelligence establishment. So, care is required.
2
Many if not most don't want impeachment because it means unless it takes pence with him we are stuck with a competent politician who with the help of Ryan and McConnell will get the sadistic GOP agenda through.
7
I am amazed that Trump's kids and son-in-law can stand public insult to their father and the weird treatment they are likely to get if Trump gets impeached. Anyone with hundredth's of self respect and respect for family would ask Trump to resign. (As a matter of fact, a true self respecting child just wouldn't have allowed dad Trump to run).
But wait ... they can care less ... since they are busy amassing enormous amount of benefit from the president dad.
But wait ... they can care less ... since they are busy amassing enormous amount of benefit from the president dad.
4
Did this editorial just cheer on the democrats to get back to power?
Another biased opinion from NYT.
Another biased opinion from NYT.
3
The Editorial Board makes a valid point--"Watergate? We’re not there yet. That’s a word that summons obstruction on a monumental scale, with evidence to prove overt criminal acts ..." But this editorial leaves out the question of treason. If, in fact, Trump blurted out "code" level secrets to his Russian visitors, and if he accepted large sums of money for his failing real estate deals, then we're into much different territory.
As this editorial states, Nixon was loyal to America. If Trump put himself in a position where he was obligated to any Russian bank (they're all state controlled), then the Russians have the ability to threaten Trump with disclosure if he doesn't follow their instructions. And unbelievably, many in Trump's White House seem to have been involved in questionable business deals with the Russians, including his son-in-law Jared Kushner.
The editorial makes many good points about worsening the divisiveness in America, but we must keep pushing for the truth. The phrase "the truth will set us free" is overused, but still packs a punch. And we must support all those who are seeking the truth about Trump's indebtedness to the Russians.
As this editorial states, Nixon was loyal to America. If Trump put himself in a position where he was obligated to any Russian bank (they're all state controlled), then the Russians have the ability to threaten Trump with disclosure if he doesn't follow their instructions. And unbelievably, many in Trump's White House seem to have been involved in questionable business deals with the Russians, including his son-in-law Jared Kushner.
The editorial makes many good points about worsening the divisiveness in America, but we must keep pushing for the truth. The phrase "the truth will set us free" is overused, but still packs a punch. And we must support all those who are seeking the truth about Trump's indebtedness to the Russians.
8
With the appointment of Mueller, we're just at the beginning. We're not at the end of the beginning or anywhere near the beginning of the end. There may never be a Watergate end to this nightmare.
This is not Normandy or even the plan for D Day. This is just a few months after Pearl.
Patience is needed.
This is not Normandy or even the plan for D Day. This is just a few months after Pearl.
Patience is needed.
2
Talk to me again after we learn the name of the person of interest in the White House who is close to Trump and has ties to Russia. Let's pull that thread and see if anything unravels. Given Congressional lassitude, it's going to have to be a really big thread!
3
Trump's gotta go, Watergate or not. The American people are the worst hiring manager in our nation's history and should look deep in the hearts, souls, and minds before they vote in the next presidential primary. And stop distrusting the mainstream press, which is not a monolith. Trump had almost 0 endorsements for a reason. As it turns out, those reasons were very good ones...
8
The Deputy Attorney General appointed the Special Prosecutor and his and his staffs’s findings will be delivered to that office when completed.
What the Attorney General’s Office decides to release to the public of those finding is their prerogative so we may be years away from The Story.
Pray for a Deep Throat if your are looking for revelation-- or Justice.
What the Attorney General’s Office decides to release to the public of those finding is their prerogative so we may be years away from The Story.
Pray for a Deep Throat if your are looking for revelation-- or Justice.
2
May not seem like Watergate, but to me it's far worse and more dangerous. This story when its,all revealed, will be bigger then Watergate.
8
We need to ignore the pull towards ratings, in all forms, when we are faced with the facts.
That's what got us into this.
That's what got us into this.
2
The temptation for impeachment is motivated by his utter incompetence. As described in a recent OdEd piece the issues that would trigger his removal are spelled out in the 25th Amendment. Maybe not impeachment yet, but removal is already justified.
5
The results of these investigations, if we get them, will speak for themselves, and eloquently. Overwrought rhetoric saps energy. It's tenacity, rigor, and focus that will move these justifiable inquiries forward. Leave the hot air to our blowhard-in-chief.
1
"in 1973 that the Senate voted 77 to zero to create the select Watergate committee once the F.B.I. established the burglary’s connection to the Nixon re-election campaign."
And in 2017, a relationship has been established between the Russian government and members of Trump's election time, and in every case the implicated member first lied about the contact(s). I don't know if the current Senate would vote for a similar select committee, but I do know that the inept burgers of Nixon's day were far less dangerous to this country.
And in 2017, a relationship has been established between the Russian government and members of Trump's election time, and in every case the implicated member first lied about the contact(s). I don't know if the current Senate would vote for a similar select committee, but I do know that the inept burgers of Nixon's day were far less dangerous to this country.
4
True, the Republican Congress is unwilling to do what it should. But while Nixon and his top aids were fortunate to have the CIA and FBI unenthusiastically doing its investigative job while having a Democratic House willing to do theirs, this time around the FBI and Justice Dept seems to be doing all the heavy lifting, while Congress hides with Sean Spicer in the bushes. But I think the results will be the same. And we have a free press (kudos to y'all) who are willing to keep a proper light shining on it all.
3
To the Democrats - Impeachment is a one shot deal. You must have a watertight case and enough votes to impeach and convict BEFORE you start. If you don't you will blow your credibility for a generation. Better to never start than to start and fail.
To the Republicans - Trump is uncontrollable and there is no connection between his twitter finger and his brain. The Democrats smell blood in the water. Better to convince Trump to resign and have a year of steady governance under Pence when you go into the 2018 elections. If you go into the midterms with the chaos of Trump, it will cost you the House, Senate in 2018, and the Presidency in 2020.
To the President - Sir, it is not going to get better. If you are to have any sort of legacy, you have to leave now. If you leave now, you can point to a change in the tone and governance of the nation as your legacy. If you stay around, be it fair or not, the press and eventually your own party, will turn against you. You will be the most reviled President in history. You deserve better than that, go out a winner.
To the Republicans - Trump is uncontrollable and there is no connection between his twitter finger and his brain. The Democrats smell blood in the water. Better to convince Trump to resign and have a year of steady governance under Pence when you go into the 2018 elections. If you go into the midterms with the chaos of Trump, it will cost you the House, Senate in 2018, and the Presidency in 2020.
To the President - Sir, it is not going to get better. If you are to have any sort of legacy, you have to leave now. If you leave now, you can point to a change in the tone and governance of the nation as your legacy. If you stay around, be it fair or not, the press and eventually your own party, will turn against you. You will be the most reviled President in history. You deserve better than that, go out a winner.
The only measuring stick is the Congressional GOP majority today supplied by the Cokes et al. Oval office conduct today far exceeds Nixon's in bald transparency and intent with international ramifications suggested by your Chinese killing spree headliner. Maybe the Russ can be reined in by revealing national secrets in camera. Probably not. Your editorial "Not There" is invalid as was withholding NSA "tapps" in 2004. Shame on you!
This is not Watergate and the awful fact is that Trumpgate is a far more dangerous and damaging to the nation and the world than Watergate ever was.
Nixon was corrupt and power hungry but at least he was sane and rational and far more intelligent and knowledgeable about government. He was a crook but he did less real damage in 4 years than the Trump gang did in 4 months.
Come January, 2019, 19 months away the people will impeach both Trump and possibly his accessory Mike Pence by electing Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress. Upon their conviction and removal from office the Democratic speaker of the House shall become president.
Even if Pence is not convicted or even impeached after Trump the people are unlikely to trust another Republican with our environment, health and security. King Trump and his GOP plutocrats are making a dumpster fire out of the Republican brand. The have given the nation a sample of government by racketeers and gangsters. The investigation will reveal that the Trump crime family is doing a deal with the Putin Gang for their mutual profit. That's why these two gangs are burning up the phone lines with all these talks; and they're talking about making America great again.
Nixon was corrupt and power hungry but at least he was sane and rational and far more intelligent and knowledgeable about government. He was a crook but he did less real damage in 4 years than the Trump gang did in 4 months.
Come January, 2019, 19 months away the people will impeach both Trump and possibly his accessory Mike Pence by electing Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress. Upon their conviction and removal from office the Democratic speaker of the House shall become president.
Even if Pence is not convicted or even impeached after Trump the people are unlikely to trust another Republican with our environment, health and security. King Trump and his GOP plutocrats are making a dumpster fire out of the Republican brand. The have given the nation a sample of government by racketeers and gangsters. The investigation will reveal that the Trump crime family is doing a deal with the Putin Gang for their mutual profit. That's why these two gangs are burning up the phone lines with all these talks; and they're talking about making America great again.
4
He is irretrievably self destructive and will be gone in 3 months. Likely quitting under a cloud of self described persecution. So impeachment talk is rare and scattered, just a gradual way to prepare the masses for the transition to Pence. Republicans resist but they will be more than delighted when it happens.
Trump will leave taking massive amounts of credit for multiple imagined accomplishments. His daughter and son in law will divorce in 3 years. So sad.
Trump will leave taking massive amounts of credit for multiple imagined accomplishments. His daughter and son in law will divorce in 3 years. So sad.
1
We may not have a Watergate yet...but then, in Nixon's day it was Americans electing the President, not agents of foreign powers.
We may not be facing the Watergate level of obvious malfeasance on the part of the President...but we have already faced a dangerous loss of control of our sovereignty that threatens to undermine our democratic institutions...and Trump's visit with Russian leaders last week underscored dramatically how you don't need a Nixonian level of provable criminality in order to ill serve the nation and ill serve our closest allies.
This is different from Watergate...and potentially far more dangerous.
We may not be facing the Watergate level of obvious malfeasance on the part of the President...but we have already faced a dangerous loss of control of our sovereignty that threatens to undermine our democratic institutions...and Trump's visit with Russian leaders last week underscored dramatically how you don't need a Nixonian level of provable criminality in order to ill serve the nation and ill serve our closest allies.
This is different from Watergate...and potentially far more dangerous.
7
The Senate did not vote to "acquit" President Clinton. This is a lie (fake news) that has been perpetuated by the Clintons and their sycophants. The concept of acquittal does not exist within the impeachment process. The word does not occur anywhere in the Constitution's discussion of impeachment. In fact, Clinton's counsel at the impeachment proceedings objected to the House of Representative's counsels using the term "jury" in reference to the Senate, arguing successfully that the proceeding should not be equated to a courtroom criminal trial (Chief Justice Rehnquist agreed with them.) The Senate did not acquit. Half the Senate voted to remove Clinton from office, and half the Senate voted to have him remain. If a comparison to a criminal trial were appropriate, and its not, then the most rational analogy would be a hung jury not an acquittal. Furthermore, none of this removed the stain of formal impeachment sustained by over half of the House of Representatives, including five Democrats.
5
Ineptness is not an impeachable offense but collusion with an enemy state certainly is. As a matter of fact it is probably treason, a crime that can carry a death sentence.
The news that a high level person in the white house is being investigated for collusion with Russia is certainly upsetting to any clear thinking American. The protection of that individual by the president is certainly an impeachable offense.
The news that a high level person in the white house is being investigated for collusion with Russia is certainly upsetting to any clear thinking American. The protection of that individual by the president is certainly an impeachable offense.
11
They key is the mens re of Trump, his awareness of criminal conduct, or his intent in the obstruction of justice charge.
In Trump's actions, the firing of Preet Bharara, Sally Yates, and James Comey (as well as other bad acts) there was a pattern that would seem to suggest an intentional obstruction of justice.
Or maybe there was just reckless behavior that had the appearance of intent. That may be the crux of the matter. Or perhaps Trump acted rashly when spurred by others and did not comprehend what he was doing or how it would appear.
In addition to the collusion with the Russians, I sure hope Robert Mueller looks into the Trump family finances and violations of the emoluments clause. After all, Kenneth Starr used a ton of money and resources peering into the Clinton sex scandal after Whitewater went nowhere.
We may not be at Watergate. But we sure need a high crime or misdemeanor. At least the maleficent Nixon was competent and capable in many areas. Trump is incapable of the statecraft that the presidency of the United States requires.
Let me say this right here: the United States is in more peril now under Trump than any time since the Civil War.
In Trump's actions, the firing of Preet Bharara, Sally Yates, and James Comey (as well as other bad acts) there was a pattern that would seem to suggest an intentional obstruction of justice.
Or maybe there was just reckless behavior that had the appearance of intent. That may be the crux of the matter. Or perhaps Trump acted rashly when spurred by others and did not comprehend what he was doing or how it would appear.
In addition to the collusion with the Russians, I sure hope Robert Mueller looks into the Trump family finances and violations of the emoluments clause. After all, Kenneth Starr used a ton of money and resources peering into the Clinton sex scandal after Whitewater went nowhere.
We may not be at Watergate. But we sure need a high crime or misdemeanor. At least the maleficent Nixon was competent and capable in many areas. Trump is incapable of the statecraft that the presidency of the United States requires.
Let me say this right here: the United States is in more peril now under Trump than any time since the Civil War.
23
What crime has Michael Flynn committed that needs covering up? The FBI has known since December exactly what Flynn said during his telephone conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, but it apparently did not constitute a violation of the Logan Act. According to the Washington Post, “The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said.” CBS News reported in February that “investigators say that despite misleading the vice president, there is not enough evidence to charge [Flynn] with lying to the FBI.” Flynn registered as a foreign agent for lobbying work he did that benefitted Turkey—a NATO ally—but three is nothing illegal about this. The FBI appears to be investigating Flynn in hopes something might turn up they can charge him with. The Army is separately investigating whether Flynn, as a retired military officer, failed to get prior approval for accepting $33,000 from a Russian government-owned news agency for a speech he made in 2015. But this is not a criminal offense. If the Army rules against Flynn, he will have to forfeit $33,000 of his military retirement pay. It's not a criminal offense, and no one is covering it up.
1
Sorry, NY Times, but you're wrong. We ARE at Watergate level criminality. Watergate was Nixon against one party and his enemies list. This is Trump and the Russians against the United States and its citizens.
34
In Watergate, there was a crime to cover up. Operatives paid by the Nixon reelection campaign were caught breaking into Democratic National Committee Headquarters. During their trial, they implicated members of the White House staff. Nixon was threaten with impeachment because Oval Office tapes showed the instructed members of his staff to lie to federal investigators. But in the current situation, there appears to be no crime to cover up. What is the crime?
1
The editors leave out an important fact: Watergate was purely a domestic issue.
"Trumpgate" involves, literally, the national security of our nation at a time when many have declared Russian actions tantamount to an act of war.
The idea of turned Kremlin assets at the highest levels of our government makes "Trumpgate" ALREADY a worse scandal that Watergate, not a lesser one.
"Trumpgate" places our intelligence community at great risk around the world (we still don't know the true and full cost of the Bush administration revealing Valerie Plame's identity,) emboldens nations with interests hostile to ours, may place our troops needlessly in harm's way and may make our nation an easy target for terrorist attacks.
Trump has one good day as president today and, interestingly, both the NYT and the Washington Post in editorials seem to be getting back to the low bar setting belief that Trump is turning a corner.
Oh, and BTW, editors, McCain walked back his Watergate remark less than 24 hours after he made it, in typical McCain flip-flop style.
"Trumpgate" involves, literally, the national security of our nation at a time when many have declared Russian actions tantamount to an act of war.
The idea of turned Kremlin assets at the highest levels of our government makes "Trumpgate" ALREADY a worse scandal that Watergate, not a lesser one.
"Trumpgate" places our intelligence community at great risk around the world (we still don't know the true and full cost of the Bush administration revealing Valerie Plame's identity,) emboldens nations with interests hostile to ours, may place our troops needlessly in harm's way and may make our nation an easy target for terrorist attacks.
Trump has one good day as president today and, interestingly, both the NYT and the Washington Post in editorials seem to be getting back to the low bar setting belief that Trump is turning a corner.
Oh, and BTW, editors, McCain walked back his Watergate remark less than 24 hours after he made it, in typical McCain flip-flop style.
191
The heads of U.S. intelligence agencies have testified that they have no evidence of collusion. The FBI refuses to say whether or not it has evidence of collusion. No one seems able to explain what the Trump campaign did that constitute collusion. The cyberattacks against the DNC computer servers started in 2015, before there was a Trump campaign. Putin vendetta against Hillary Clinton began in 2011, when as secretary of state she accused him of rigging Russia parliamentary elections. What do you think Trump or his staff did that constitutes collusion?
1
The part left out is there was actually a crime to investigate during the Watergate Scandal. Operatives paid by the Nixon reelection campaign were caught red-handed breaking into DNC headquarters. In the current situation, there is just the possibility a crime was committed. Neither the crime nor the person who committed it have been identified.
1
Absence of evidence is not evidence and absence and that is why we now have a special counsel, to get to the bottom of this.
When you say collusion, in what area do you mean that? That Trump colluded directly with Putin to throw the 2016 election? Straw argument because not even the Democrats are claiming that.
The collusion that is of concern is that Trump is putting US security at risk because he has such financial entanglements with Russia that he is effectively being blackmailed by the Kremlin.
Conservatives need to leave the 2016 election go. YOU WON! Get over it.
When you say collusion, in what area do you mean that? That Trump colluded directly with Putin to throw the 2016 election? Straw argument because not even the Democrats are claiming that.
The collusion that is of concern is that Trump is putting US security at risk because he has such financial entanglements with Russia that he is effectively being blackmailed by the Kremlin.
Conservatives need to leave the 2016 election go. YOU WON! Get over it.
One party has sacrificed every American ideal for power. What does it matter what happens with Mr. Trump, or the Democrats? Centrism is not the solution, nor is backing the banks and large corporations in my view. If we don't copy the successes of the Scandinavian countries and Switzerland, we have nothing to show for our effort at Democracy. Bernie Sanders famously pointed out that Republicans try everything in their power to keep people from voting. Even reformed felons in Florida can *never* vote again. To call this "Democracy" is a farce, just like the old Radio Free Europe commercial.
11
We are no where near watergate. The horse always dreaming lost at Preakness and the always dreaming democrats will lose by just focusing on impeaching Trump. Trump won by unleashing ferocious attacks on his rivals, whether it were the 16 Republican contenders and Hillary Clinton. I have just about a year ago though that Trump will be an experiment and an instrument for a much needed change. As an independent, I have always kept an open mind. I campaigned for Obama and although I thought he was okay, I am disappointed that things went horribly wrong in the middle east during the Obama years and I am disappointed how things went overseas and domestically. Trump has potential to do good for the country and unless there is something we do not know so far that could resemble watergate, the worse case scenario is Iran Contra scandal during Reagan's time comes to mind.and Gen Flyn would be equivalent to Col. Oliver North. For the sake of the country and the democratic party, I would hope that after visiting the holy lands there would be a seconding coming of Trump, a different man than when he left on his overseas trip, a more mature and humbled person ready to be truly presidential and magnanimous. This transformation will be in the best interest of the nation. Watergate and impeachment will be toxic for Americans residing outside the urban areas of the country and for many in the world. The promising economy will go downhill past and unemployment will rise
3
Unless they have some kind of brain transplant program going on overseas that we don't know about, this aged, obstinate, my-way-or-the-highway, ignorant, callous, oblivious, greedy, narcissistic, petulant, equivocating, prevaricating, treasonous braggart will return exactly the same as when he left (if not worse, after all the fake fawning he's being subjected to which will only reinforce his narcissism).
Or unless we can hurry up and enact a Numbskull Ban.
Or unless we can hurry up and enact a Numbskull Ban.
1
The Salem witch trials which led to nearly 20 hangings may pale in comparison with what is happening in the press today. I am amazed to see such speculative comments. I predict that history will judge them the same as it judged the foibles of Salem's elite and upstanding jurists of the late 17th century.
6
The best way to avoid becoming subject of a witch hunt would be: stop hanging out with Russian witches, hiring a cabinet full of admitted witches, blocking & obstructing investigations into your witch cabinet, and stirring up steaming cauldron of lies, bigotry, sexism, incompetence, nepotism, self-dealing and treason which has already poisoned America's electoral process, world standing, and could potentially damage much more.
Agree. So far, Trump has not demonstrated enough cunning to orchestrate such a complicated plot. His biggest "crime" might not be his. It might belong to all the enablers, loyalists, who are so intoxicated by the chance to be a part of his inner circle that they are willing to twist their brain into knots and numb their own souls in order to create an alternative reality where Trump never has to learn any moral, ethical, or social norms but still attracts enough loyalists to keep the alternative reality alive. And now he is proving he has no interest in learning the ethical, moral, legal or political norms of being POTUS. But that doesn't make him guilty of a crime.
But this could be a good thing. IOW, his lack of cunning and political awareness might be the characteristics that keep on giving--either by creating so much distraction that the Republican legislative agenda is derailed or demonstrating so little understanding of the content and motives of that agenda and his power to guide it that Republicans finally hang themselves by passing it.
Better to let him continue to demonstrate his ineptitude. There are 63 million people who voted for him who need to tire of it, if that is possible. Many of them have been hypnotized by conservative media to believe it is Democrats who are hysterical, unethical, even evil. Premature calls for impeachment will only make his supporters more intransigent and outraged.
But this could be a good thing. IOW, his lack of cunning and political awareness might be the characteristics that keep on giving--either by creating so much distraction that the Republican legislative agenda is derailed or demonstrating so little understanding of the content and motives of that agenda and his power to guide it that Republicans finally hang themselves by passing it.
Better to let him continue to demonstrate his ineptitude. There are 63 million people who voted for him who need to tire of it, if that is possible. Many of them have been hypnotized by conservative media to believe it is Democrats who are hysterical, unethical, even evil. Premature calls for impeachment will only make his supporters more intransigent and outraged.
5
Remember the photo of Trump in the oval office with the Russians on the cover of your paper this week--all 3 with jocular, conspiratorial smiles? We may not be at Watergate yet, but this mess could ultimately extend well beyond the sins of Watergate.
11
as a moderate republican, I think that Democrats should continue to push for trump's impeachment. push hard. get him out quick. then we all can welcome president pence and both sides of the aisle can work together to accomplish his agenda. pence will clearly get more things accomplished than trump would be able to accomplish as president. that will make everyone happier won't it?
1
On the contrary, the most delicate and deft moments in Watergate involved getting Spiro Agnew out of office, and replacing him with someone benign and decent. Granted, Pence has the manners and skills for the job. But his policies are very extreme and his religiosity is creepily extreme. When critical mass is reached, a similar move will absolutely have to take place!
1
The only way that would make people happy was if there was serious reaching across the aisle. Compromise from both sides is the only way forward. That, unfortunately, does not seem to be in the agenda.
Don't worry, the Democrats will blow it.
6
Of course Trump isn't Nixon. Until the day Trump was elected president his only vaguely public role was self selected buffoon in charge championing the racist cause that came to be known as birtherism. Since becoming elected president his only 'accomplishments' have been to undermine protections for the environment, and destroy the precious trust built over generations that the USA, no matter what, would remain committed to universal values such as basic human rights and equal justice under the law. Nixon was deeply flawed, paranoid, prejudiced, and vindictive, but he accomplished many things in his years of public service for which millions in the US and millions more all around the world have reason to be thankful for to this day. Trump, who's never done anything in his life that wasn't first of all and entirely for #1 is national embarrassment and an international menace; a thoroughly out of his depth individual who has about as much in common with Richard Nixon as he has with George Washington.
153
Watergate? No we are not there yet. However, we are dealing with an armature in trump compared to Nixon. Even Nixon, was not stupid enough to brag, tweet and generally behave like a petulant child during Watergate. Trump is all but thumbing his nose at his detractors and saying you can't touch me. It is this behavior that will inspire the Special Counsel to do a metaphorical cavity search on trump,..hard and deep.
We will be at Watergate level soon and it will be in no small part because of trump and his infantile behavior. He is his own worse enemy, thank God.
We will be at Watergate level soon and it will be in no small part because of trump and his infantile behavior. He is his own worse enemy, thank God.
5
Donald Trump's days as president are numbered. He will not serve a second term. His apple is losing its shine. He's a boorish, selfish, egotistical megalomaniac. And as history has proven, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time."
5
It's only been ~ 120 days or so. Patience.
6
NYT please don't go soft on us here.
Trump's self-admitted indiscretions thus far go far beyond the scale and scope of Watergate.
Our democracy is at grave risk with an unhinged president and a feckless congress. Let the investigations unfold, but the tea leaves are easy to read. Trump is toast.
Trump's self-admitted indiscretions thus far go far beyond the scale and scope of Watergate.
Our democracy is at grave risk with an unhinged president and a feckless congress. Let the investigations unfold, but the tea leaves are easy to read. Trump is toast.
8
Agreed, and deep down I have a hard time believing Trump actually called up the Russians to collude on the election--he just isn't that sophisticated. That isn't to say he didn't end up hiring some Russian-spy campaign staff in a remarkable display of naivete.
There are a couple of wrinkles, though. One: Trump hasn't acted like an innocent man. It's pretty clear that he obstructed justice, at very least. Why? And second, Trump has been absolutely consistent in his pro-Russian stance, which is really odd for anyone, much less someone so inconsistent about everything else. Again, why?
A thorough investigation is warranted, and I'm glad we're finally going to have one.
There are a couple of wrinkles, though. One: Trump hasn't acted like an innocent man. It's pretty clear that he obstructed justice, at very least. Why? And second, Trump has been absolutely consistent in his pro-Russian stance, which is really odd for anyone, much less someone so inconsistent about everything else. Again, why?
A thorough investigation is warranted, and I'm glad we're finally going to have one.
9
Yes, and isn't it amazing that the Apprentice-President has still nothing bad to say about just two people, Putin and Flynn, the latter having been exposed to blackmail by the former according to the Justice Department?
My guess is that the Russians have some kompromat of him as well, be it financial or otherwise.
My guess is that the Russians have some kompromat of him as well, be it financial or otherwise.
2
Trump said out loud and on camera at one (or more of his rallies), to paraphrase: "Russia, please hack Hillary and get us those missing emails!"
That's was out loud.
So one can only imagine what was being asked of Russia during all the PRIVATE contacts between the Russians and countless members of Trump's campaign.
That's was out loud.
So one can only imagine what was being asked of Russia during all the PRIVATE contacts between the Russians and countless members of Trump's campaign.
1
Last time I checked, obstruction of justice is illegal.
As Dan Savage says, ITMFA.
As Dan Savage says, ITMFA.
6
Not if the president does it. Unfortunately.
This is very far from Watergate, the one shining glorious moment , half century ago, where the forces of ___ took down a president
(after expelling another one LBJ
-hey hey LBJ/ how many kids did you kill today)
What we have, is a coup
(after expelling another one LBJ
-hey hey LBJ/ how many kids did you kill today)
What we have, is a coup
5
The coup happened when Russian attacked our nation & subverted our electoral process in order to place their financially-obligated operative(s) in the Oval Office, NSC, State Department, and God only knows where else.
1
What we have here is way more than Watergate. The question before us is did the current President of the United States collude with a hostile foreign power to influence the results of an American election? Also, is said President in thrall to Russia? Is Trump "our man in Washington" for the Russians?
Watergate was criminal. The questions swirling around Trump, if proved true, point to treason.
Watergate was criminal. The questions swirling around Trump, if proved true, point to treason.
10
I'm sure the media would love to milk what's turned out to be a windfall for you all, much as you "normalized" this nitwit during the campaign just to keep him in as long as you dared.
You're all in Comey's boat: keep things interesting by roughing up Hillary a bit and keeping Donald in play, just to raise a profile here and there or to keep the headlines interesting. She's a lock, after all, so what could it hurt?
Ethel and Julius were executed for way less than Trump has already admitted to out of his own mouth.
He's already gone. Please don't promote alternative narratives just for the sake of dragging things out. The nation will be suffering immeasurably and irrevocably while your "numbers" are hitting all-time highs: we can't afford your windfall.
If things take time, it'll be due to the time it'll take to sort out all the folks in his cabal (looking at you enablers too, Ryan & McConnell) who are going down with him. And to figure out who's left to succeed when Pence et al are perp-walked out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue along with the Don they've (apparently) pledged loyalty to over and above their country.
Please don't abdicate your Fourth Estate responsibilities this time around.
You're all in Comey's boat: keep things interesting by roughing up Hillary a bit and keeping Donald in play, just to raise a profile here and there or to keep the headlines interesting. She's a lock, after all, so what could it hurt?
Ethel and Julius were executed for way less than Trump has already admitted to out of his own mouth.
He's already gone. Please don't promote alternative narratives just for the sake of dragging things out. The nation will be suffering immeasurably and irrevocably while your "numbers" are hitting all-time highs: we can't afford your windfall.
If things take time, it'll be due to the time it'll take to sort out all the folks in his cabal (looking at you enablers too, Ryan & McConnell) who are going down with him. And to figure out who's left to succeed when Pence et al are perp-walked out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue along with the Don they've (apparently) pledged loyalty to over and above their country.
Please don't abdicate your Fourth Estate responsibilities this time around.
9
Of course it's time for impeachment! Trump hired Flynn. That needs to be impeachable. Trump fired comey to obstruct justice he said so! Trump is violating emoluments clause every day. Eventually everyone needs to recognize the obvious and clear even though there may be no document spelling it all out. No "obstruct justice" memo! NYT wants a conviction before indictment!
4
I happen to agree with this editorial comment, which point I take is that those who support a progressive agenda, myself included, must realize the little power Democrats currently wield, and focus on what is doable, and must be done if we are to save our democracy. Until Mueller uncovers and discloses a smoking gun of evidence of collusion with Russia or corruption, the GOP congress isn't going to budge until it perceives movement in Trump's base, which means it isn't going to budge. That base is only made more determined by incessant media clamor about Trump, and outrage expressed by hated progressives only further elates them. Harsh language isn't going to get it done. As example, view the clip of Elizabeth Warren's senate hearing confrontation last week with Treasury Secretary Mnunchin, in which in her rage she entirely lost control of the (valid) point she was trying to make, and in the process helped Mnuchin come across as the level-headed adult, no mean feat. Her tirade greatly disappointed me in someone I hope to have the opportunity to support in the next election, and was a lost opportunity to expose yet another Trump administration shenanigan. Tirades are not helpful at this point. What is helpful, and the only thing that has a chance of turning the tide of conservative dominance, are relentless, cogent, forceful, and focused descriptions of the GOP agenda, much of which is being enacted while we are distracted and energy is being wasted on rage.
6
Finally, The NY Times has come to its senses and realized that there is no evidence of a massive conspiracy between Trump and the Russians and the proper way to oppose him is to disagree with his policies. The fever has broken, and it's a good thing for progressives and the country. No more McCarthyism, please.
1
The institution of Presidency has been an exalted one in the American psyche, something to be worshipped with places to visit and take inspiration from. However, Trump has destroyed everything and one would be scared to wonder what his Presidential Library would look like: no books, just some national enquirers and swimsuit editions of SI. That is the destruction no impeachment can fix.
4
Mueller has the key to Trumpgate.
4
We are in at 1974 of Watergate, but are we at 1972? Trump has admitted he fired Comey to stop the "Nut Job" from investigating the Russian issue. How is that different than the concept of a Presidental Adminstration poltentally breaking in to the other parties office?
I agree with the Times underlining message, we need to be measured and understand what happened and what was the intent here, but the question at hand is as serious as Watergate and the White Water issue and Monica Lewinsky was quite frankly not in the same league.
I agree with the Times underlining message, we need to be measured and understand what happened and what was the intent here, but the question at hand is as serious as Watergate and the White Water issue and Monica Lewinsky was quite frankly not in the same league.
67
Nixon's real crimes were his blocking of LBJ's efforts to end the Vietnam War (his people treasonously told the South Vietnamese in 1968 to hold out for a better deal from Nixon) and the slowness with which he finally ended that war.
By comparison, Watergate was trivial.
Trump's real crimes, so far, are his efforts to transfer huge amounts if wealth from the poor to the rich. By comparison, his deals with Russia are trivial.
By comparison, Watergate was trivial.
Trump's real crimes, so far, are his efforts to transfer huge amounts if wealth from the poor to the rich. By comparison, his deals with Russia are trivial.
6
Meanwhile, the Republicans sneaking in a Healthcare Bill under our noses. They should be concentrating on healthcare for plan Trump.
1
Based on what I have read and heard, we are there. I agree with Senator McCain.
4
As David Brooks said on NPR this Friday '"I miss the days when the White House had a better class of criminal." Nixon, on his worst day, was better at hiding obstruction of justice evidence than this current Twitthead. The thing that is the most dramatically different, from those times and these, is that the Republican party, somewhere along the line, stopped fighting for American values. There used to be a saying in WWI and II, "there are no atheists in the foxhole." Now that's been changed to "there are no patriots in the FOXhole".
5
With all due respect, Russiagate is already well beyond Watergate in its existential threat to our democracy. We may have a President who colluded with Russia to win the election and has engaged in a series of actions to obstruct justice with the willing, "spineless" collaboration of the Republican-controlled Congress. How do explain the appointment of Michael Flynn as National Security adviser when he was on the payroll of both Turkey and Russia? How do explain his being kept on in that position for almost three weeks when the Acting Attorney General. Sally Yates, repeatedly warned the White House that he was "compromised."? Instead, Ms. Yates wad fired and told to be silent. How do explain the behavior of Rep. Devin Nunes, Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and a former Trump campaign aide, working with the White House to keep Yates from testifying and undermining and obstructing the work of his committee to investigate Russiagate? How do you explain the firing of the one independent man in charge of investigating the possible collusion of the Trump campaign and Russian operatives, FBI Director, James Comey after he refused to pledge "loyalty" to Mr. Trump? And, if you still have any doubt about a pattern to obstruct justice, what do make of the President's repeated admission that he wanted to put an end to the Russia "witch hunt "? The threat to our democracy is real and the evidence is clear. The failure of a Republican Congress to act is equally terrifying.
9
Current is actually much much more serious than Watergate. This is a methodical, rigorous attempt to disavow a legitimately elected government by a group of fanatics. There hasn't been any hint of evidence produced yet, merely a hypothetical theory, and yet these fanatics have practically shut down the govt.
A lot of the aforementioned fanatics work at NYT and WAPO. Congratulations.
A lot of the aforementioned fanatics work at NYT and WAPO. Congratulations.
1
Another attempt to jump through hoops to 'blame the media,' which in our country is a Constitionally-protected free press. I do agree that media coverage can be sensationalistic; however, it is hardly the media's fault that Trump sinks himself in double-speak and lies on a daily basis. It would be a derogation of responsibility to not report on this, and to turn a blind eye on the dubious carrying-ons of this 'Administration.' There is nothing the press can do that is as 'fanatical' as having a dumb puppet in the White House, whose ear is held by the alt-right advisors and billionaires who despise the agencies to which they have been appointed to run.
1
The Editorial Board is correct that this is different than Watergate. However I would contend that it is worse. To me, and many other Americans, Donald J. Trump admitted he fired FBI Director Comey to relieve himself of the pressure of the investigation. He admitted it on national television and he admitted it to Russian government officials, one of which is widely acknowledged to be a spy. The President of the United States admitted he obstructed justice to thwart an investigation into whether or not his administration aided a known hostile foreign government's operation to interfere in an American election to prevent the election of the Democratic nominee from being elected President.
It couldn't be more plain that Donald J. Trump obstructed justice to thwart an investigation into his possible participation in Treason. I don't need any more investigations. It's time to impeach Donald J. Trump and convict him of the crimes he has already admitted committing.
It couldn't be more plain that Donald J. Trump obstructed justice to thwart an investigation into his possible participation in Treason. I don't need any more investigations. It's time to impeach Donald J. Trump and convict him of the crimes he has already admitted committing.
5
"We're not there yet." Actually we flew over it.."
3
We are getting there though. I hope that he is impeached.
However, if we overhype this and there isnt solid actual evidence of substantial collusion, then Trump will take 2020 by storm.
Mueller is a great pick. He will get to the truth, and we all need to unite behind his eventual conclusions. This investigation is going to take a long time, possibly years.
Democrats need to play it cool on impeachment and be patient. They need to be aggressive on fighting his toxic policy on everything but infrastructure and immigration. I think that it is obvious from commenters on the NYT that liberals dont want open borders, they want less illegal immigration, and they want better infrastructure.
Do some things to actually help America, and fight tooth and nail for the things that Trump wants that will destroy America (climate change denial, oil pipelines).
However, if we overhype this and there isnt solid actual evidence of substantial collusion, then Trump will take 2020 by storm.
Mueller is a great pick. He will get to the truth, and we all need to unite behind his eventual conclusions. This investigation is going to take a long time, possibly years.
Democrats need to play it cool on impeachment and be patient. They need to be aggressive on fighting his toxic policy on everything but infrastructure and immigration. I think that it is obvious from commenters on the NYT that liberals dont want open borders, they want less illegal immigration, and they want better infrastructure.
Do some things to actually help America, and fight tooth and nail for the things that Trump wants that will destroy America (climate change denial, oil pipelines).
1
This is worse than Watergate. A hostile foreign power tipped the scales, resulting in the election of Donald Trump. At least the Watergate dirty tricks were played by Americans against Americans.
2
I disagree. This is beyond Watergate. We are way beyond Watergate. This is Nixon colluding in 1968 to fix the election and nobody knew. What Trump has done to date, if true, is treason. As with his associates. He sold his soul to win.
4
This is a common sense for the meantime editorial.
The situation changes day to day.
The GOP ultimately has to decide, because after all it's their Congress and DJT's future or destiny is predominantly by numbers their political responsibility & up to their moral judgment.
I would've preferred the Electoral College to ultimately screen him out, which I'd always thought was the founders hedging intention, though the EC was apparently more about slavery politics as some scholars are ... seemingly cowardly/avoiding/ alibiing/chickening what up until now I had thought the Electoral College is supposed to be our back-up security against Aristotle's angry "mob."
I frankly am confused, and who isn't?
Impeachment is a political process
The situation changes day to day.
The GOP ultimately has to decide, because after all it's their Congress and DJT's future or destiny is predominantly by numbers their political responsibility & up to their moral judgment.
I would've preferred the Electoral College to ultimately screen him out, which I'd always thought was the founders hedging intention, though the EC was apparently more about slavery politics as some scholars are ... seemingly cowardly/avoiding/ alibiing/chickening what up until now I had thought the Electoral College is supposed to be our back-up security against Aristotle's angry "mob."
I frankly am confused, and who isn't?
Impeachment is a political process
I'm sorry, but Trump must go. Trump is on a path of destruction, that if left alone will destroy this country. Many will lose their lives, while the top 1% will literally "trickle" down on all our heads. Trump is corruption on steroids.
2
Comey is at fault for not managing the FBI properly and properly warning the Democrats that they had been and were being hacked. Would he have acted the same way if the Republicans had been hacked? J Edgar Hoover would have handled Russian meddling in our elections much better.
I think Trump gave Comey his just desserts.
I think Trump gave Comey his just desserts.
Just when I thought the country had gone mad, the Times pulls back from the brink.
If only as a matter of prudence, you don't begin impeachment proceedings against a President (especially a newly-elected one) unless you have compelling evidence that he needs to be removed from office. By "compelling", I mean compelling to the President's base too.
Without that, the process will be seen for what it is, a putsch or a coup d'état masquerading as an exercise of Congress's oversight powers. It would open gaping wounds in the nation and bring us to the brink of civil war -- or over the brink.
That evidence doesn't exist, except in the hyperactive imaginations of Democrats who have never accepted the outcome of the election anyway. A few frail wisps of smoke do not make a smoking gun.
Prudence also dictates that you don't impeach a President unless you know you are going to succeed. As Machiavelli said, if an injury has to be done to a prince, it must be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Think of what a failed impeachment would mean! Think Erdogan. Trump would be back stronger than ever, more convinced of his divine right to rule, and more paranoid too, with plenty of scores to settle. Trump's opponents would be discredited. And having once recklessly drawn the sword of impeachment from its scabbard, Congress would not get another chance, even if Trump engaged in actions that truly warranted impeachment.
Our political class needs to grow up.
If only as a matter of prudence, you don't begin impeachment proceedings against a President (especially a newly-elected one) unless you have compelling evidence that he needs to be removed from office. By "compelling", I mean compelling to the President's base too.
Without that, the process will be seen for what it is, a putsch or a coup d'état masquerading as an exercise of Congress's oversight powers. It would open gaping wounds in the nation and bring us to the brink of civil war -- or over the brink.
That evidence doesn't exist, except in the hyperactive imaginations of Democrats who have never accepted the outcome of the election anyway. A few frail wisps of smoke do not make a smoking gun.
Prudence also dictates that you don't impeach a President unless you know you are going to succeed. As Machiavelli said, if an injury has to be done to a prince, it must be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Think of what a failed impeachment would mean! Think Erdogan. Trump would be back stronger than ever, more convinced of his divine right to rule, and more paranoid too, with plenty of scores to settle. Trump's opponents would be discredited. And having once recklessly drawn the sword of impeachment from its scabbard, Congress would not get another chance, even if Trump engaged in actions that truly warranted impeachment.
Our political class needs to grow up.
2
The gaping wounds are already there.
The only way they can be stopped from festering is by both sides reaching across the aisle. That includes the citizenry, left, right and middle. That entails respecting each other's opinion.
Perhaps there is not adequate proof at this point for criminal charges, perhaps that proof doesn't exist. That said, Democrats and those who oppose Trump are not hallucinating. This administration is rotten. The policies they want to enact are dangerous to the heath of the country's citizenry, and downright cruel to the most vulnerable.
The only way they can be stopped from festering is by both sides reaching across the aisle. That includes the citizenry, left, right and middle. That entails respecting each other's opinion.
Perhaps there is not adequate proof at this point for criminal charges, perhaps that proof doesn't exist. That said, Democrats and those who oppose Trump are not hallucinating. This administration is rotten. The policies they want to enact are dangerous to the heath of the country's citizenry, and downright cruel to the most vulnerable.
Pence would be a giant step toward normalization. My nightmares of a Trump blunder starting a major war would cease.
1
I do not understand the normalization of this administration with respect to conflict of interest. Trump's bold-faced use of the office for personal gain is without precedence and clearly at odds with the spirit objectivity if not the Emolument clause of the Constitution. It seems the public (and the Times) gives Trump a pass on this because...he doesn't try to hide it? Have we abandoned even appearance of ethical behavior? What am I missing?
2
Look, Democrats, you want to take the Senate in 2018? Maybe even push for the House? Then you don't want Trump going out of office. Pence goes in, and the spin machine ramps up and makes the group identified as reluctant Trump voters stay in the fold. And Pence is more likely to sign in some really messed-up legislation than Trump.
No. We want it to drag along. Let's keep DJT in office until November 2018 when his approval ratings are nearing single digits. Then we go in and establish a Congressional stronghold that gives him nothing. He'll fuss and fume and step in his own stuff over and over and then in 2020 -- IF THE DNC DOESN'T BLOW IT AGAIN -- maybe we can return to sanity.
No. We want it to drag along. Let's keep DJT in office until November 2018 when his approval ratings are nearing single digits. Then we go in and establish a Congressional stronghold that gives him nothing. He'll fuss and fume and step in his own stuff over and over and then in 2020 -- IF THE DNC DOESN'T BLOW IT AGAIN -- maybe we can return to sanity.
3
You can blame the DNC all you want, but the truth is that the voters chose the worst possible candidate.
They are responsible for all election outcomes, good or bad.
They are responsible for all election outcomes, good or bad.
1
This is one lame editorial. Why must any comparison be drawn to Nixon or Watergate? Because this is the only comparison in living memories? Trump is in a class of his own and must be treated as such.
1
Indeed, even "the four-year-olds understand the difference between fatancy and reality"! Thanks for the timely wake-up call. Thanks for bringing some sense back to the NYT crowds. BTW, the long-shot races in the next few weeks may break many people's hearts. I just hope they will not be discouraged. Further, going to the opposite end of the spectrum is not going to be the solution. The reality is this country is kind of central right. The majority will not support socialism. They do want their individual social welfare benefits but they don't want to pay for it. The best example is Red States generally take more money in from the federal government.
Democrats should lay out clearly what the party stands for. Bashing President Trump will not be enough. Deportation of undocumented immigrants should not be a big issue either. Defending Obamacare is unwise because it is on life-support and it requires significant improvement. A bold new plan for the country should be a better strategy. For example, universal healthcare covering basic needs for citizens with the options to purchase better coverage can be a goal. In fact, this country is running "socialism medicine" already such as VA care. Alternatively, the goal can start from high risk pool. They are the most expensive patients for any plan anyway. Why not offer some fresh thinking?! A silicon valley kind of disruption is needed. Remember, if you don't do it, someone else will do it and you will be disrupted.
Democrats should lay out clearly what the party stands for. Bashing President Trump will not be enough. Deportation of undocumented immigrants should not be a big issue either. Defending Obamacare is unwise because it is on life-support and it requires significant improvement. A bold new plan for the country should be a better strategy. For example, universal healthcare covering basic needs for citizens with the options to purchase better coverage can be a goal. In fact, this country is running "socialism medicine" already such as VA care. Alternatively, the goal can start from high risk pool. They are the most expensive patients for any plan anyway. Why not offer some fresh thinking?! A silicon valley kind of disruption is needed. Remember, if you don't do it, someone else will do it and you will be disrupted.
A more cynical editorial I have not read in a long time. I do agree that it would be politically good for us Dems if we all slow roasted Trump's political carcass. But the good of the nation and the world cry out for a swift excision of our national malignancy. That articles of impeachment are not being drafted right now is truly shameful.
14
Most of this editorial only points out that we are in worse shape than in the Watergate years. That partisanship denies us the ability to look clearly at misbehavior and the nature of our so called president is a deep tragedy that has the potential to bring our country to its knees. Will our democratic system survive this travesty? The jury does not even have a trial to judge and the insanity continues.
7
Republicans of all positions would do wise to remember that those who live by the tooth-and-claw will be slashed up and eaten by the tooth-and-claw.
Perhaps the GOP believes that they can lie, con and gerrymander their way into permanent majority, using all their powers to eliminate even the chance of being unseated by a competing party. They have made it all too obvious that they care neither for the Constitution of for the country, as they rely on their support of a criminal President to further their corrupt pilferage of our nation's riches and taxpayers. When they are turned out of office and the majority, the Democrats will have every reason to return their behavior in kind. Every Republican member of the House and Senate who has refused to hold Trump to account should be investigated for RICO racketeering.
Perhaps the GOP believes that they can lie, con and gerrymander their way into permanent majority, using all their powers to eliminate even the chance of being unseated by a competing party. They have made it all too obvious that they care neither for the Constitution of for the country, as they rely on their support of a criminal President to further their corrupt pilferage of our nation's riches and taxpayers. When they are turned out of office and the majority, the Democrats will have every reason to return their behavior in kind. Every Republican member of the House and Senate who has refused to hold Trump to account should be investigated for RICO racketeering.
7
They HAVE lied, conned and gerrymandered their way to long standing majority. Why change?
Donald Trump is mentally ill but it is 2017 and you are America and Donald Trump is the right President of the right country at the right time!!!
In four years with any luck America will again go to the ballot box and decide if Donald Trump is the way to go. That is what democracy is all about.
America's problems are not material. America's problems are not political. America's problems are not a weak military. America's problems will not be solved by the stroke of a pen. America is the richest country that ever was or ever will be. America is the most powerful country that ever was or ever will be. America and Donald Trump suffer from the same disease.
Today my wife and I sat in our modest backyard and watched the birds and listened to music picked dandelions and planted our garden. In the evening we just listened to the music and even danced. We laughed and we cried. We cried when Ray Charles sang America the beautiful. We sobbed over "crowned thy good with brotherhood."
In four years with any luck America will again go to the ballot box and decide if Donald Trump is the way to go. That is what democracy is all about.
America's problems are not material. America's problems are not political. America's problems are not a weak military. America's problems will not be solved by the stroke of a pen. America is the richest country that ever was or ever will be. America is the most powerful country that ever was or ever will be. America and Donald Trump suffer from the same disease.
Today my wife and I sat in our modest backyard and watched the birds and listened to music picked dandelions and planted our garden. In the evening we just listened to the music and even danced. We laughed and we cried. We cried when Ray Charles sang America the beautiful. We sobbed over "crowned thy good with brotherhood."
9
You and your wife are not the only ones crying.
1
Ah, but Moe, we are "the exceptional country", meaning, we can ignore international law and morals, let our Nobel Peace prize (what a joke) winning president bomb small countries (7 or 8, or more) to rubble, killing hundreds, thousands of their citizens and creating more militants. We then steal their resources, through "trade deals", coercion or outright invasion.
Nothing will change until the people realize that we elect criminals to high office and then lionize them (never, ever "love" a politician, Obama, Bernie, Hillary or Trump) while letting them have US military forces run rampant all over the world, with our uncountable (rumored to be 1000+) secret and not so secret military bases everywhere. When we go into another country, we NEVER leave. Never. Japan, Germany, S. Korea, you name it, in the 20th century, we are there to stay. Ask the Okinawans who would dearly like us to leave. We are the destroyer of civilizations, as much as ISIS, and more, having deliberately destroyed the infrastructure of Iraq and other M-E countries, and polluted its land with depleted uranium munitions.
Our rapacious business people are never satisfied with billions, they have to have trillions. They could have five heart attacks and grandchildren to appreciate, but that won't stop them from ruining other countries to accumulate more wealth.
So Moe, you are right, a mentally ill president leading a country that he reflects. I envy you your modest back yard.
Nothing will change until the people realize that we elect criminals to high office and then lionize them (never, ever "love" a politician, Obama, Bernie, Hillary or Trump) while letting them have US military forces run rampant all over the world, with our uncountable (rumored to be 1000+) secret and not so secret military bases everywhere. When we go into another country, we NEVER leave. Never. Japan, Germany, S. Korea, you name it, in the 20th century, we are there to stay. Ask the Okinawans who would dearly like us to leave. We are the destroyer of civilizations, as much as ISIS, and more, having deliberately destroyed the infrastructure of Iraq and other M-E countries, and polluted its land with depleted uranium munitions.
Our rapacious business people are never satisfied with billions, they have to have trillions. They could have five heart attacks and grandchildren to appreciate, but that won't stop them from ruining other countries to accumulate more wealth.
So Moe, you are right, a mentally ill president leading a country that he reflects. I envy you your modest back yard.
1
Thank you for putting this in perspective. As President Obama recently stated "we get the president we deserve". Unfortunately your response is above the heads of most Trump voters.
1
Since Trump has no filter, I have no doubt he will give us breaking news of the spit-your-drink-across-the-room sort from now until he resigns in August.
2
I don't understand the concept that the public can't be roused by citing another moment in history when it appeared that the President was not following the rule of law. The more people who understand that this is a crisis, that America's democracy is going down the toilet if this Administration isn't stopped, the less apathetic they will be come voting time.
The situation here actually is theoretically far more dangerous than Watergate, as you are dealing with a foreign adversary "choosing" who's to be President, then very possibly calling the shots subsequently.
I thought Senator Cummings was very eloquent when interviewed yesterday, affirming in no uncertain terms the calamity of this situation. GO FOR IT!
The situation here actually is theoretically far more dangerous than Watergate, as you are dealing with a foreign adversary "choosing" who's to be President, then very possibly calling the shots subsequently.
I thought Senator Cummings was very eloquent when interviewed yesterday, affirming in no uncertain terms the calamity of this situation. GO FOR IT!
11
Something about this editorial seems fundamentally mistaken. I believe that an organized cabal of foreign agents working directly or indirectly for Putin in the White House is more serious than obstruction of justice in common criminal activities such as burglary.
52
As many people have said, "Follow the money." The special counsel, Robert Mueller III should look at not only at Trump's tax returns but also the who, what, where and how of the money invested in his various companies and real estate investments. What is the source of that money? Here is a man, Donald Trump, who because of his previous six bankruptcies, could not get loans from U.S. banks. His son, Donald Jr. bragged about the "Russian Money" being invested into Trump's business ventures. Why has Jared Kushner become a "person of interest" in the Russian inquiry?
12
I disagree. The impeachment process needs to be normalized, to fix a flaw in our Constitution. By giving the president a fixed term of four years, it makes him a temporary king. A feckless, incompetent president can do just as much damage as one who commits "high crimes and misdemeanors." We can't afford to wait until investigators collect enough evidence and mount an overwhelming case. Should a board of directors wait that long to remove a chief executive who was bankrupting the company? Should the British parliament not have removed Neville Chamberlain as prime minister in May, 1940? An impeachment is not a criminal prosecution. It should be used to remove a president who has lost the confidence of the Congress and is viewed as unfit to serve.
18
Nixon didn't commit treason. He suborned burglary and covered it up, obstructing justice. Most of us suspect Trump of treasonous behavior as well as obstruction. And I doubt he will EVER resign.
23
Yes. I agree treason is far worse and has farther reaching effects on the world stage. Citizens' safety could be at risk in this situation. We're not there yet, but if it looks like a duck...
1
Nixon loved this country and preferred it to Russia. Trump does not. That is the difference.
6
The Washington media are President Trumps chief enemy and opposition ratcheting up their war of words with no-holds barred and failing to provide truthful reporting of his policy changes and his highly proficient appointments who can initiate change for the many unemployed while improving healthcare for the population. The US media gears up their assault with foolish headlines and more spurious, vitriol babel in full onslaught against the President [Saudis Welcome Trump’s Rebuff of Obama’s Mideast Views (Shear, M, Baker, P (5/20), (A Prayer for Donald Trump (Bruni, 5/19) and (Watergate? We’re Not There Yet (The Editorial Board (5/20). I would think the NYT Board members know very well the President's actions are NO WHERE near a Watergate event! It requires a vote of two thirds of the US senators, and that there is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the incumbent has committed "high crimes and misdemeanors." Surely you don't consider dismissing FBI Director Comey who recommended against prosecutions of Mrs. Clinton while telling the public in July she had broken many U.S. laws, was not his place to make such a public recommendation! The NYT must start printing the comments from readers who are questioning the tone and vitriol babble of your reporters or pull them away from the ECHO Machine. Give us the truth and if necessary give your old staff a 6 month respite to release their angst and hatred;Bring in fresh faced earnest journalists who will seek and write the truth.
1
We're not there yet? So far we've got the (digital) break-in of the DNC, the NYC FBI "plumbers," and we may even have Oval Office tapes. We've definitely got a recording of republican leadership "joking" about their candidate taking payments from Putin, and apparently there's more. We don't have all the facts yet, but they're coming in fast and furious. Watergate may be a tall bar, as you say, but we've got quite a few Russians, republicans, and colluders spinning, jumping and swinging from it. The grand dismount promises to make the dirty politics of the 70's look quaint.
12
We may not be there yet, but we are picking up speed. I'm sure others picked up on Trump's "but I can only speak for myself" comment regarding Russian collusion by his campaign. Hmmm, sounds like the prelude to informed deniability.
9
Trump's Watergate will release a wave of public disgust once we hear "executive privilege" invoked by the White House in response to congressional and Special Counsel demands for documents and testimony. Then we'll see all the president's men (and women) start to lawyer up to defend themselves from claims of involvement in the conspiracy with Russia to hack and leak Democratic campaign emails. We know how disgusted Mr. Trump is with leaks about his own campaign tactics.
4
I disagree that the Trump-Russia scandal isn't of Watergate size and scale yet. We have a Pres who sanctioned a national security advisor who was in cohoots with the Russians! Whether or not Trump colluded with the Russians during the campaign, he was certainly informed of Flynn's shenanigans and he kept him on staff until the Wash Post broke the story. Trump then fired his FBI Director the same way dictators throughout the world fire meddlesome law enforcement professionals. The evidence for obstruction of justice is simply overwhelming. I don't understand your caution in interpreting the facts.
15
We've seen nothing like this Presidency ever. No one, and I mean no one, knows what will happen next or how specifically, and when, all this will end. If it were not for my interest in politics and my desire to follow the news and happenings of this Presidency, things just haven't changed that much in my life. I must say, however, that the harmful politics and policies that have already been put into motion bode danger on so many levels in the days, weeks, months, and years to come.
10
I agree we are not there yet. We are beyond the "there" that's "there". Thinking back to the very early days of this administration and the Republican attempt to dismantle the congressional ethics office, the appointment of one tainted cabinet member after another with Republican approval and minimal nose holding, the sharing of intel with the Russians and the appointment of a National Security Advisor who was playing footsie with the Russians and on the Turkish payroll and on and on and on. We don't need a mask and a gun to hurtle the bar of Watergate. The ethics violations, conflicts of interests and feigned or real stupidity seems to be an impeachable offense if only based on incompetence. How many bodies need to be under this bus???
4
In the paraphrased words of Jerry McGuire "Show me the taxes!"
1
We are about to discover that "there is no there there" in so far as we had crafted and maintained against ever increasing odds a global image of our nation as "the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave."
It wasn't the Trumps of the world that destroyed it, but an electorate that demonstrated such narrowness of perspective and a predilection for quasi mob-like behavior and/or ignorance.
In other words, we fell for the tricksters' and liars' with golden hair and gorgeous women and the lullaby that being great meant required our becoming but bullies and loud-mouths with no principles. Meld that with heapings of disdain for anyone who didn't see things their way and you have a nation more in sync with fascism than "the American Way".
We've become instead the drunk at the party who, convinced in his blindness that he knows all, says all and is shown the door.
It took 250 +/- years to earn the global respect we wielded until Trump came along, and about 6 or 7 months to lose it.
It wasn't the Trumps of the world that destroyed it, but an electorate that demonstrated such narrowness of perspective and a predilection for quasi mob-like behavior and/or ignorance.
In other words, we fell for the tricksters' and liars' with golden hair and gorgeous women and the lullaby that being great meant required our becoming but bullies and loud-mouths with no principles. Meld that with heapings of disdain for anyone who didn't see things their way and you have a nation more in sync with fascism than "the American Way".
We've become instead the drunk at the party who, convinced in his blindness that he knows all, says all and is shown the door.
It took 250 +/- years to earn the global respect we wielded until Trump came along, and about 6 or 7 months to lose it.
12
Maybe Robert Mueller can bring some sanity to this imbroglio.
A short moratorium of inflammatory articles and breathless news and talk shows - a few hours, maybe a day or two - might allow us to focus on other issues that might be importance to the country.
Nah. Won't happen.
A short moratorium of inflammatory articles and breathless news and talk shows - a few hours, maybe a day or two - might allow us to focus on other issues that might be importance to the country.
Nah. Won't happen.
3
The Special Counsel Investigation needs to slow down and take its sweet old time now that it is underway. The best we can hope for is that this drip drip drip continues all the way til November of 2018 when it can reach its tipping point and turn into a flood that drowns the Republican party.
All the while the GOP platform of tax reform, health care reform, and a privatization of infrastructure spending can die a slow death in the Congress--unable to move past committee stage due to the daily breathless circus that has become the Executive Branch.
Nearly 6 months has passed since the 115th Congress took their oath. That means we're a quarter of the way there! C'mon Trump--Keep it up!
All the while the GOP platform of tax reform, health care reform, and a privatization of infrastructure spending can die a slow death in the Congress--unable to move past committee stage due to the daily breathless circus that has become the Executive Branch.
Nearly 6 months has passed since the 115th Congress took their oath. That means we're a quarter of the way there! C'mon Trump--Keep it up!
5
Impeachment is a political process to rid the country of an incompetent president. It is not a criminal trial. This editorial is spot on. Without political support, impeachment is not a realistic goal.
It is inconceivable that the voting public will re-elect a Republican majority if the education is done. It is wasted energy to speak of impeachment while the Republicans are stealing the wealth of the nation while getting us into more wars, taking health care away from the elderly, damaging our reputation with our friends in other nations, and imprisoning more of the nations poor.
The Democrats have to concentrate on the ugliness of the Republican Party rather than howl about a two-bit swindler who is stupid as well as incompetent.
2018 is not a shoe in. It will take work to unseat these rich parasites.
It is inconceivable that the voting public will re-elect a Republican majority if the education is done. It is wasted energy to speak of impeachment while the Republicans are stealing the wealth of the nation while getting us into more wars, taking health care away from the elderly, damaging our reputation with our friends in other nations, and imprisoning more of the nations poor.
The Democrats have to concentrate on the ugliness of the Republican Party rather than howl about a two-bit swindler who is stupid as well as incompetent.
2018 is not a shoe in. It will take work to unseat these rich parasites.
13
Unfortunately it is not at all inconceivable that the voting public will re-elect a Republican majority. Most Republican Congressmen/women come from safe districts and will be re-elected (or replaced by more conservative challengers. And many more Democratic Senators than Republican Senators are up for re-election.
Thank you New York Times for asking correct questions & providing information about our edgy zeitgeist. Watergate? It seems we need Occupy Theater. Every flat surface should be a stage for neo-Beat theater arts- beatific, of the people.
This is what is called creative disaster - concocting innovative, imaginative, multi dimensional responses in creative ways to the deception. deceit, fraudulence, mendacity which permeates our democracy. Let us confront fake news, alternative news & Trump faux pas with prayers & poetry like grenades.
The alleged coverups, briberies, insults to minorities, shredding of health coverage, severing of the arts demand new forms of expression to counteract the reality TV theater of menace which abounds.
This is what is called creative disaster - concocting innovative, imaginative, multi dimensional responses in creative ways to the deception. deceit, fraudulence, mendacity which permeates our democracy. Let us confront fake news, alternative news & Trump faux pas with prayers & poetry like grenades.
The alleged coverups, briberies, insults to minorities, shredding of health coverage, severing of the arts demand new forms of expression to counteract the reality TV theater of menace which abounds.
It's reassuring, to a degree, to find that my persistent commenting on the futility and risks of prematurely inflating Trump’s suspected criminality are finally echoing in the Board's opinion.
Now it's time to dial down on the anti-Kremlin campaign, please.
Now it's time to dial down on the anti-Kremlin campaign, please.
2
While historical references offer some insight and perspective it just blows my mind that we did this to ourselves. We elected a freak to be our leader. At least Nixon wasn't elected with the populous knowing with certainty - in advance - how depraved he was. We don't have the same excuse this time around.
15
You can thank the last president and Hilary Clinton for Donald trump.
1
What has become clear is that Trump does not represent the United States, but only caters to his base, who also hold no allegiance to the country. They are not far removed in temperament and ideology from those who joined the secession a century and a half ago. If Trump's decisions and actions were to bring our nation down, they would cheer him on every step of the way because that's why they voted for him. Did Genghis Khan's followers chide him for his barbarian ways?
The rest of us who support our nation, and its democratic institutions and processes, can only hope that Trump will undo himself, as many despots do eventually. But even then we'll be left with a sizable minority who, having tasted power, will not be sated, and will continue to agitate and threaten our union. Given the breakdown of Red stated vs Blue states, it would not be surprising to see new attempts to secede. Our republic is in as much danger as it has been since the Civil War.
The rest of us who support our nation, and its democratic institutions and processes, can only hope that Trump will undo himself, as many despots do eventually. But even then we'll be left with a sizable minority who, having tasted power, will not be sated, and will continue to agitate and threaten our union. Given the breakdown of Red stated vs Blue states, it would not be surprising to see new attempts to secede. Our republic is in as much danger as it has been since the Civil War.
13
The Soviet Union merely changed its name to Russia. It still has the same style of leadership today, that it had when it was the Soviet Union. Putin, formerly in the KGB, thereafter in its successor, the FSB runs Russia the same way the Politburo ran the Soviet Union. Then the leader was the General Secretary. Today, its leaders are denoted as the President and/or the Prime Minister. Putin runs Russia regardless of his title. Any opposition therein is eliminated.
Their aim is to infiltrate and subordinate the US to Russia. It has been alleged that Russia interfered with our Presidential election. During the campaign, Trump condoned Russia's interference. He and his appointees have yet to criticize Russia and Putin for any of their alleged actions, nor have they supported any investigation thereof.
Last week Trump invited Russia's Foreign Minister and its Ambassador into the White House for a private meeting. Trump invited only Russian photographers for that event. Further, the Russians noted they would gladly provide a transcript of that meeting. Right!
America is supposed to be a democracy. Our citizens continue to fight and to die for it. The last three died May 5th in Somolia.
This is not a Democrat, nor a Republican democracy. We are all Americans and should support any and all impartial investigations into this matter to get to the bottom of these issues. Prosecutions as warranted, should ensue. The future of our democracy depends upon it.
Their aim is to infiltrate and subordinate the US to Russia. It has been alleged that Russia interfered with our Presidential election. During the campaign, Trump condoned Russia's interference. He and his appointees have yet to criticize Russia and Putin for any of their alleged actions, nor have they supported any investigation thereof.
Last week Trump invited Russia's Foreign Minister and its Ambassador into the White House for a private meeting. Trump invited only Russian photographers for that event. Further, the Russians noted they would gladly provide a transcript of that meeting. Right!
America is supposed to be a democracy. Our citizens continue to fight and to die for it. The last three died May 5th in Somolia.
This is not a Democrat, nor a Republican democracy. We are all Americans and should support any and all impartial investigations into this matter to get to the bottom of these issues. Prosecutions as warranted, should ensue. The future of our democracy depends upon it.
3
You're right. It's unfair comparing Watergate to the present situation. That's like comparing a pocket calculator to the internet.
If, for reasons of basic propriety, the NYT can't nail this stuff down, we can. His entire team knew Flynn was an agent for a foreign government when they made him national security adviser. He fired the deputy AG after she alerted Trump personally that this was a threat against national security. Then he fired the FBI director. His entire staff was directed to shape that decision as a bottom-up decision, but then he essentially confessed: he fired the FBI director because of the Russian investigation on him. Then he celebrated with Russian emissaries and voluntarily divulged an ally's highly classified information to the Russians. These are cavalier abuses of power, and this is only what is visible, what is patently obvious to people.
Then there's the basic fact of the president's refusal to disentangle himself from his businesses. He's made his daughter, who is putatively running his businesses, a White House employee. His branded properties are, every day, being used by foreign delegations to curry favor with him. He has been in violation of the Constitution's emoluments clause from the moment he took the oath of office. If he is not impeached here, the Constitution ceases to be an effective legal framework for limiting the power of the executive - which, after all, was the primary reason we had a revolution and wrote a Constitution. >>
If, for reasons of basic propriety, the NYT can't nail this stuff down, we can. His entire team knew Flynn was an agent for a foreign government when they made him national security adviser. He fired the deputy AG after she alerted Trump personally that this was a threat against national security. Then he fired the FBI director. His entire staff was directed to shape that decision as a bottom-up decision, but then he essentially confessed: he fired the FBI director because of the Russian investigation on him. Then he celebrated with Russian emissaries and voluntarily divulged an ally's highly classified information to the Russians. These are cavalier abuses of power, and this is only what is visible, what is patently obvious to people.
Then there's the basic fact of the president's refusal to disentangle himself from his businesses. He's made his daughter, who is putatively running his businesses, a White House employee. His branded properties are, every day, being used by foreign delegations to curry favor with him. He has been in violation of the Constitution's emoluments clause from the moment he took the oath of office. If he is not impeached here, the Constitution ceases to be an effective legal framework for limiting the power of the executive - which, after all, was the primary reason we had a revolution and wrote a Constitution. >>
22
Disgraceful. No mention whatsoever that, just days ago, the president damaged our national security (i.e., put our lives in greater danger) by recklessly disclosing highly classified information -- to the Russians, no less. If that isn't an impeachable offense, what is?
7
Ok so no me of what the president did is actually an impeachable event. The penny will drop soon. Not going to happen, democrats need to move on and oppose republicans in substance and not this feeble "resist" mantra that will get you nothing more than 7 more years in the wilderness.
Like many here I have been immersed in, shocked by, appalled by all the goings on with Flynn, Comey, Rosenstein… and am eagerly awaiting the outcome of this mess. Let’s not take our eyes off the prize, hint it is not the impeachment of Trump. The real prize during this debacle is our opportunity to take power from the Republicans wherever and whenever we can. And we can do that by electing Democrats at any and every opportunity, from Dog Catcher to US Senator. Anytime we kick out a Republican it is a good thing.
The work on investigating Russian involvement in the election has just begun, the investigative wheels of Congress are hopelessly muddied by partisan opposition to investigating Trump and the FBI investigation will be slow. It will take months, more likely years before the outcome is known. Rosenstein has put an adult in charge (Mueller) and after the way he was treated by Trump and Sessions after the Comey firing he will erect a firewall around Mueller. In the end we will know what happened and many in the GOP will suffer badly.
Talk to swing or lean GOP voters. Good roads and bridges, clean air and water, a decent education for our kids and grandkids, a police force that works with us, real access to healthcare, opportunities for good jobs, a fair tax system, fair elections… Steer the conversation to any of these topics and lay out what Trump and the rest of the GOP have done or not done and how they are not working for the benefit of most of the American people.
The work on investigating Russian involvement in the election has just begun, the investigative wheels of Congress are hopelessly muddied by partisan opposition to investigating Trump and the FBI investigation will be slow. It will take months, more likely years before the outcome is known. Rosenstein has put an adult in charge (Mueller) and after the way he was treated by Trump and Sessions after the Comey firing he will erect a firewall around Mueller. In the end we will know what happened and many in the GOP will suffer badly.
Talk to swing or lean GOP voters. Good roads and bridges, clean air and water, a decent education for our kids and grandkids, a police force that works with us, real access to healthcare, opportunities for good jobs, a fair tax system, fair elections… Steer the conversation to any of these topics and lay out what Trump and the rest of the GOP have done or not done and how they are not working for the benefit of most of the American people.
7
In America did Comey Khan
A stately memorandum decree:
Where Potomac, the sacred river, ran
Through corruption measureless to man
A stately memorandum decree:
Where Potomac, the sacred river, ran
Through corruption measureless to man
1
The thing is on rails, with an inertia that will break through political posturing, obfuscation, and Republican foot dragging. It seems there have been three clear grounds for impeachment: willful violation of the emoluments clause; obstruction of justice; and abuse of power. but now we have investigators talking about a "person of interest," working in the White House. That smacks of criminality. Is there some sort of scheme to enrich Trump or members of his family? Or could there be outright treason- conspiring with a foreign power to harm the security of the United States. If these conjectures are wrong, it may be they are too modest, and the scale of this catastrophe is greater than we have thus far imagined.
4
There's never been an invulnerable, teflon coated, cult of personality in American politics quite like Donald Trump. If Democrats are to defeat him, they must do so on policy. Make the case that Donald's policies are detrimental to struggling Americans. There's more than enough to work with there, especially with the malicious Trumpcare on the horizon.
The hope of impeachment is just icing on the cake. It may well turn out that Donald and pals were just simply careless and sloppy, with no evidence of criminal conspiracy. We don't need impeachment to challenge one if the most loathed American presidents in modern history.
The hope of impeachment is just icing on the cake. It may well turn out that Donald and pals were just simply careless and sloppy, with no evidence of criminal conspiracy. We don't need impeachment to challenge one if the most loathed American presidents in modern history.
8
The US has become a cult of psychopathy.
1
Anyone who has ever believed in anything positive that the United States has ever stood for (i.e. the Constitution) wishes for the Trump presidency to fail utterly. We wish this flawed and dangerous man to hover on the brink of impeachment for his entire tenure in office, paralyzing the Mafia style crime syndicate that is the Republican Party. We wish for the Republican Congress to fail. We wish for Trump to fail. The Republican Party means only harm to America, as it has for the past 50 years plus. No good for America can possibly come from any Republican victory or policy.
20
Nixon was uber-competent, particularly in understanding how the executive branch (which he reorganized in many significant ways) operates, making his use of the Executive Branch to "get his enemies" especially ominous. Trump is the opposite.
3
If there was no collusion with Russia prior to the election, President Trump is most certainly colluding with Russia now. He barred the American media from a photo-op prior to an Oval Office meeting on May 10 with Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov and Russian ambassador Kislyak, but astonishingly accorded TASS, the official Russian government news agency, this privilege.
At this meeting, per an NYT report, Trump said, “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job.” He then went on to admit to his Russian visitors that the firing helped relieve pressure on him caused by Comey’s ongoing Russia investigation. Wow!
It doesn’t get any more surreal than this – an American president fires his FBI Director to seemingly please his presidential counterpart in the Kremlin, an ex-KGB agent. “Comrade” Trump betrayed his own intelligence chief, whom he felt was an impediment to his Russia policy. And, by his own admission, Trump met with Lavrov because he couldn’t say “No” to Putin.
It’s pretty clear now that the Russian interference in our 2016 election is turning out to be a coup d'état of sorts in which Putin has successfully managed to install a pro-Kremlin stooge in the White House. So in that sense, Trumpgate is far more serious and damaging to our national security than Watergate ever was – impeachment might seem like an indulgence right now, but Mueller’s investigation could turn it into an imperative.
At this meeting, per an NYT report, Trump said, “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job.” He then went on to admit to his Russian visitors that the firing helped relieve pressure on him caused by Comey’s ongoing Russia investigation. Wow!
It doesn’t get any more surreal than this – an American president fires his FBI Director to seemingly please his presidential counterpart in the Kremlin, an ex-KGB agent. “Comrade” Trump betrayed his own intelligence chief, whom he felt was an impediment to his Russia policy. And, by his own admission, Trump met with Lavrov because he couldn’t say “No” to Putin.
It’s pretty clear now that the Russian interference in our 2016 election is turning out to be a coup d'état of sorts in which Putin has successfully managed to install a pro-Kremlin stooge in the White House. So in that sense, Trumpgate is far more serious and damaging to our national security than Watergate ever was – impeachment might seem like an indulgence right now, but Mueller’s investigation could turn it into an imperative.
7
President Trump may escape impeachment. The nation may be spared the rise of a regressive President Pence. But who, other than we the voters, can end the threat posed by Speaker Ryan's "unified Republican majority" and its pro-plutocratic ways?
6
If it can be shown that the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to affect the 2016 election, and if Trump was aware of or directed the collusion,then both Trump and Pence would need to be removed from office. One only votes ONCE for POTUS and VP. It is not possible to split one's vote. If one is tainted, both are tainted.
19
The only difference between Watergate and Trumpgate is the total loss of civility, morality and respect for the rule of law and government in this country Nixon, among other things, broke into the Democratic Party files to gain advantage. Trump, recorded on television, told the Russians to break into the DNC's and Ms. Clinton's files - electronic files - and why should that make a difference? I don't recall ever hearing the GOP os the 70s arguing that the Democratic Party should have had better locks on the door!! It's an outrage! The party that loudly screams about how moral and "Christian" they are - are utterly lacking any sort of morality or respect for law. And this is the key difference. Trump's crimes are certainly much worse than Nixon - but if a tree falls in the woods and 60 millions Trump fanatics and the GOP says it didn't make a sound - then that will make it so. And that is the real threat of Trump and his enablers. They have willing dismantled and denigrated every American value and institution for their pathetic, greedy personal agendas.
8
Mr. Trump's financial conflicts with the American Constitution are more than enough to put him in hot watergate.
If and when our Judicial System follows the money between Russia and Mr. Trump, then even Attorney General Jeff Sessions would throw in the cards.
If and when our Judicial System follows the money between Russia and Mr. Trump, then even Attorney General Jeff Sessions would throw in the cards.
3
That's OK, we don't need an impeachment. Trump's presidency - and the support systems around him - looks likely to melt down on its own in other ways, likely taking down a fair number of top Republicans with him. The more they stay silent, the more they appear complicit. Just need to give them enough rope.
13
Let it go, Let It Go, LET IT GO
Let it rain, Rain, RAIN
Braggadocios, Expi-ala-docios
The Lily-livered, will be delivered
Change the name of the prez from tRump to Clinton
She'd have been impeached while wearing her mittens
Pledge me your loyalty
I'll treat you like Royaly
Republicans can see no WRONG
WON'T SPEAK OUT AND JUST GO ALONG
"It's alright just as long as we get what we want...!"
To Russian and Turkish SPIES:
I will tell you no lies, please pass me some of those fries?
Armed diplomats, armed by Plutocrats
Crackin' heads like MOBSTERS
Trying to steal with their broken logic legal-ease
Don't understand that when you take an OATH to "Defend and protect your country" it is a LIFETIME commitment...!
Let it rain, Rain, RAIN
Braggadocios, Expi-ala-docios
The Lily-livered, will be delivered
Change the name of the prez from tRump to Clinton
She'd have been impeached while wearing her mittens
Pledge me your loyalty
I'll treat you like Royaly
Republicans can see no WRONG
WON'T SPEAK OUT AND JUST GO ALONG
"It's alright just as long as we get what we want...!"
To Russian and Turkish SPIES:
I will tell you no lies, please pass me some of those fries?
Armed diplomats, armed by Plutocrats
Crackin' heads like MOBSTERS
Trying to steal with their broken logic legal-ease
Don't understand that when you take an OATH to "Defend and protect your country" it is a LIFETIME commitment...!
1
Be patient.....Former FBI Chief Robert Mueller has stabilized the investigation;
The media ....all media must cooperate with all the leaks that are fast
coming forth....The Fourth Estate must play its role wisely .....facts matter.
The NYTimes is doing a fine job; has top reporters earning a great deal of
respect by entering into the conversation in TV Shows whose hosts and
anchors need to be nudged into tell just the ...ENTIRE ...truth...no shades
of gray......so good job ...well done and keep on going ....NYTimes...thank
you for descending from those hallowed halls....into the TV arenas.
The media ....all media must cooperate with all the leaks that are fast
coming forth....The Fourth Estate must play its role wisely .....facts matter.
The NYTimes is doing a fine job; has top reporters earning a great deal of
respect by entering into the conversation in TV Shows whose hosts and
anchors need to be nudged into tell just the ...ENTIRE ...truth...no shades
of gray......so good job ...well done and keep on going ....NYTimes...thank
you for descending from those hallowed halls....into the TV arenas.
2
For sure we are not.
My assumption is the President will push some Senators at the Comey appearance to ask pointed questions, like:
Who opened the Trump investigation? When? And. precisely, why?
Who closed the Clinton investigation? When? If Comey says he did, why did he usurp the power vested in Ms Lynch?
Did he actually write memoranda to himself in the Trump investigation?
Did he do the same in the Clinton investigation?
The points to be made being- he shut the probe into the Dem candidate at the same time he opened one into the Gopper. Bad optics.
& if he took out an "insurance" policy on the latter, odds are he did on the former. Which will make him look a little...well, flakey.
And leave the Gops a shot at embarrassing subpoenae.
My assumption is the President will push some Senators at the Comey appearance to ask pointed questions, like:
Who opened the Trump investigation? When? And. precisely, why?
Who closed the Clinton investigation? When? If Comey says he did, why did he usurp the power vested in Ms Lynch?
Did he actually write memoranda to himself in the Trump investigation?
Did he do the same in the Clinton investigation?
The points to be made being- he shut the probe into the Dem candidate at the same time he opened one into the Gopper. Bad optics.
& if he took out an "insurance" policy on the latter, odds are he did on the former. Which will make him look a little...well, flakey.
And leave the Gops a shot at embarrassing subpoenae.
1
Screams for impeachment are premature and, critically, detrimental to Democrats' prospects in 2018. We do not need to overstate our case or throw tantrums on twitter. We need to be the sober, compassionate, long-term thinkers who can govern a nation of many different viewpoints, needs and cultures.
Marching in solidarity, yes. Showing up at town halls, staying politically engaged at the local and state level, yes. Fighting disenfranchisement tooth and nail - a thousand times yes. Calling for Trump's impeachment when he tried to get cosy with Comey because he's an ignorant, arrogant businessman who has no idea how to do his job? No.
Marching in solidarity, yes. Showing up at town halls, staying politically engaged at the local and state level, yes. Fighting disenfranchisement tooth and nail - a thousand times yes. Calling for Trump's impeachment when he tried to get cosy with Comey because he's an ignorant, arrogant businessman who has no idea how to do his job? No.
3
Ironically the Democratic Party headquarters were broken into in the summer prior to the 1972 election. The DNC of today was hacked by the Russians in the summer of the election year. Did Trumps campaign collude with the Russians in some manner before, during, or after the hacking/break-in? That's what this is all about, is it not.
This is not a Watergate. It's much more serious. We're in the middle of a nightmare scenario where the Republican campaign is being investigated to learn if they colluded with a known foreign power adversary ( Russia). With the objective to elect their favored candidate as President of the United States. That's treason! Watergate never came close to that. It's kids play compared to what is being investigated here. I'm just thankful Special Prosecutor Mueller is on board.
This is not a Watergate. It's much more serious. We're in the middle of a nightmare scenario where the Republican campaign is being investigated to learn if they colluded with a known foreign power adversary ( Russia). With the objective to elect their favored candidate as President of the United States. That's treason! Watergate never came close to that. It's kids play compared to what is being investigated here. I'm just thankful Special Prosecutor Mueller is on board.
9
It may be too soon for Watergate but it is not too soon for conservatives who care about their place in history to stop being complicit, step forward and work for the country instead of their party.
We will all remember. If he and his illegitimate administration, including Pence, are not removed.....we will remember.
We will all remember. If he and his illegitimate administration, including Pence, are not removed.....we will remember.
6
This isn't close to Watergate. My guess is that Mr. Mueller will uncover a lot Russian meddling in the campaigns, more than we know so far. He may find some sloppy connections between Trump campaign staffers and Russians; they clearly weren't careful enough. Collusion? Doubtful. With respect to Trump himself, he will come out with little to no direct involvement with the Russians, even financially. He will get dinged for trying to squash the FBI's probe, but at this point that's out of his hands.
Bottom line, Trump will survive, and no doubt boast of it and tell his detractors to get in line or get out of the way.
I also don't see the current Congress impeaching him. So we're likely stuck with him.
Bottom line, Trump will survive, and no doubt boast of it and tell his detractors to get in line or get out of the way.
I also don't see the current Congress impeaching him. So we're likely stuck with him.
6
The elephant in the room is still Trump's taxes. They would answer everything. Until this happens, we're stuck with Mr. Duh-merica and investigations that solve nothing.
And comparing Nixon and Trump doesn't work. One was a criminal. The other is just criminally inept.
And comparing Nixon and Trump doesn't work. One was a criminal. The other is just criminally inept.
5
We’re not there yet, but, what’s the pattern?
BBC World News TV---“The cumulative effect of all these recent events have been absolutely extraordinary”. (yes, quite, quite extraordinary, as the Brits would say.)
“He’s had a firewall around him with the Gop congress, but now there are cracks. “
It's action and reaction. At each step where he offends our rights, the Constitution and rule of law, the pushback naturally increases from Dems, the public, and now some Rupubs. But this then further enflames the obsessive paranoia of the true authoritarian. He’s proud of his defiance, while his critics have to be careful and constrained.
He is so compulsive that maybe the only direction he can go in is to double down. All Trump’s maneuverings will invite more investigations. Then he lashes out playing the victim of persecution by his enemies---the press and opposition party.
Maybe the wall we really need is one built to protect America from its president. As the country tries to defend itself, it just increases his snarling belligerence.
He increasingly exemplifies a paranoiac mind-set that could be taught in political science classes and in psychiatric training. He told the Coast Guard--- “Look at the way I’ve been treated lately, especially by the media. No politician in history, and I say with surety, has been treated worse, more unfairly.” We will watch this painfully play out.
BBC World News TV---“The cumulative effect of all these recent events have been absolutely extraordinary”. (yes, quite, quite extraordinary, as the Brits would say.)
“He’s had a firewall around him with the Gop congress, but now there are cracks. “
It's action and reaction. At each step where he offends our rights, the Constitution and rule of law, the pushback naturally increases from Dems, the public, and now some Rupubs. But this then further enflames the obsessive paranoia of the true authoritarian. He’s proud of his defiance, while his critics have to be careful and constrained.
He is so compulsive that maybe the only direction he can go in is to double down. All Trump’s maneuverings will invite more investigations. Then he lashes out playing the victim of persecution by his enemies---the press and opposition party.
Maybe the wall we really need is one built to protect America from its president. As the country tries to defend itself, it just increases his snarling belligerence.
He increasingly exemplifies a paranoiac mind-set that could be taught in political science classes and in psychiatric training. He told the Coast Guard--- “Look at the way I’ve been treated lately, especially by the media. No politician in history, and I say with surety, has been treated worse, more unfairly.” We will watch this painfully play out.
12
We are actually farther along than Watergate in one way that you have not recognized. There is no longer any doubt, the Supreme Court having settled the dispute, that if tapes exist the Congressional investigators and the special counsel are entitled to them. The only way out of it for Trump, if they exist, would be to destroy them, surely a direct obstruction of justice. Trump should take no solace from where he is, be it Saudi Arabia, Israel, Italy or the moon.
5
If there is going to be a death by a thousand cuts, better the one who deserves it than the millions who don't.
Impeach. And more than just that, convict.
Impeach. And more than just that, convict.
18
A long time ago and far from todays rabid partisanship. Trump is probably the best of a bad lot. Remove him get Pence. He knows the ways of Washington and is arguably more regressive. Next around Ryan. Even more dangerous. The Trump bandwagon with a son in law of dubious probity and Barbie is the joke team. Except nobody is laughing. If the story about Lockheed and Jared is true it would suggest that the whole military industrial complex is open for purchase.
Where have I been? Perhaps I am just waking from a nightmare?
Where have I been? Perhaps I am just waking from a nightmare?
9
I find arguments like this unconvincing. Perhaps it is just wishful thinking, but I find our current situation much more menacing than Watergate, and I suspect it will move much faster.
There are several reasons for this:
1)Trump is no Richard Nixon. For all his faults, Nixon was a very experienced politician. Mr. Trump is not and digs his hole deeper each time he opens his mouth.
2)Trump is accused of colluding with the Kremlin, not trying to cover up spying on Democrats. This is a much more serious case, with potentially much more damage to the U.S.
3) Many Republicans hate Trump, and only need political cover to go after him.
4) The mid-terms are coming. Republicans do not want to be in the middle of this growing scandal when they are running for reelection.
5) Pence is much closer to a traditional conservative than Trump and many Republicans would be more comfortable with him in the White House.
6) In the unlikely event that Pence gets pulled into this scandal, Republicans would rather have Paul Ryan in the Speaker's chair than Nancy Pelosi after the mid-terms.
I am not arguing that impeachment is a forgone conclusion, but I do believe it is much closer than this Editorial acknowledges.
There are several reasons for this:
1)Trump is no Richard Nixon. For all his faults, Nixon was a very experienced politician. Mr. Trump is not and digs his hole deeper each time he opens his mouth.
2)Trump is accused of colluding with the Kremlin, not trying to cover up spying on Democrats. This is a much more serious case, with potentially much more damage to the U.S.
3) Many Republicans hate Trump, and only need political cover to go after him.
4) The mid-terms are coming. Republicans do not want to be in the middle of this growing scandal when they are running for reelection.
5) Pence is much closer to a traditional conservative than Trump and many Republicans would be more comfortable with him in the White House.
6) In the unlikely event that Pence gets pulled into this scandal, Republicans would rather have Paul Ryan in the Speaker's chair than Nancy Pelosi after the mid-terms.
I am not arguing that impeachment is a forgone conclusion, but I do believe it is much closer than this Editorial acknowledges.
66
Pence is either knee deep in the scandal or he is really stupid.
Patience and preservance along with following the money trail (or perhaps more likely the debt) are key ingredients moving forward. And if the boy-King doesn't learn restraint, his verbal word-salads and little Twitter hands might just be enough to sabotage his reign as he shows us his unfortunate incompetence. In addition, I look forward to watching the Republicans in government find their backbones. Ladies and gentlemen - stand up and walk tall like you have respect for something bigger than yourselves i.e your fine country.
19
IMO, this far surpasses Watergate. Why, because our election was sold to the highest bidder, Russia; a hostile foreign power. If the GOP would stop stonewalling Congress, this could potentially ensnare far more people than Watergate. Gee, I wonder if that's their concern? /s
46
It has been widely reported that the Trump team lobbied for a certain Republican position on Crimea that was not consistent with promoting Democracy. Why does the NYTimes think this was true? Wake up, NYTimes.
Maybe we're "not there yet," but it feels closer to it with each passing day, as well as the panicked reaction at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
Indicting himself, Mr. Trump said "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off," after bragging about firing Jim Comey. This he said to the Russians, permitting only Russian photographer/press.
Pictures shown first on Russian State Television showed them guffawing and practically towel-slapping one another. We all saw them.
Transcripts later emerged. The hapless press secretary didn’t dispute the transcript. It certainly has the sound, sense & fury of obstruction of justice in that it was the FBI investigation that prompted the president to fire Comey.
And he said so.
Now a “current White House official ” very close to Mr. Trump is a significant "person of interest." And also, investigators into Russian meddling in our presidential elections are now authorized to probe whether White House officials engaged in a cover-up. That's big. It's big league, as Mr. Trump would say.
Indicting himself, Mr. Trump said "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off," after bragging about firing Jim Comey. This he said to the Russians, permitting only Russian photographer/press.
Pictures shown first on Russian State Television showed them guffawing and practically towel-slapping one another. We all saw them.
Transcripts later emerged. The hapless press secretary didn’t dispute the transcript. It certainly has the sound, sense & fury of obstruction of justice in that it was the FBI investigation that prompted the president to fire Comey.
And he said so.
Now a “current White House official ” very close to Mr. Trump is a significant "person of interest." And also, investigators into Russian meddling in our presidential elections are now authorized to probe whether White House officials engaged in a cover-up. That's big. It's big league, as Mr. Trump would say.
52
It may not be Watergate just yet, but the handwriting is on the wall.
I will not be surprised if Mr. Trump ultimately is shown to be the head of a criminal enterprise in which some of his children are also implicated. Once the FBI and FinCEN start to unravel his shell companies and the sources of some of his funds, his only hope for avoiding a criminal indictment after he leaves office will be a pre-emptive pardon by Mike Spence.
As for Flynn and Manafort, even if they are able to cut deals with the prosecution, those deals will probably include some prison time.
I will not be surprised if Mr. Trump ultimately is shown to be the head of a criminal enterprise in which some of his children are also implicated. Once the FBI and FinCEN start to unravel his shell companies and the sources of some of his funds, his only hope for avoiding a criminal indictment after he leaves office will be a pre-emptive pardon by Mike Spence.
As for Flynn and Manafort, even if they are able to cut deals with the prosecution, those deals will probably include some prison time.
78
pence
Pence won't pardon Trump because he will not become president. He will be an indicted, and convicted, co-conspirator. It will be president hatch. As much as I disagree with the policy preferences of the Utahan fourth in line to the presidency, he has some integrity, Trump, Pence, and Ryan do not. Which is why Trump, Pence, and Ryan will be convicted.
Trump's growing scandal is a golden opportunity for Democrats, not just because it would hurt Trump and his protectors, but because it will showcase their skills at national leadership. That requires treating the Trump/Russia dealings not as a partisan issue, but as an American one.
There is much to build on. Russia interfered with our presidential election. Members of Trump's campaign had illicit ties to Russia. The FBI were (are?) investigating whether Trump himself was being blackmailed by Putin. Trump put Michael Flynn in the White House, and tried to cover Flynn's covert dealings with Russia. Trump fired the FBI head, hoping to ease the pressure of investigation on him. Even some Republicans are uncomfortable.
If ever there were an offense which should bring us together, this is it. Yet, impeachment is a divisive process, even for an unpopular president, which Democrats would do well to remember. If Trump saw that impeachment were iminent, it is more likely that he would resign rather than go through it, not to save the country the embitterment, but to save himself the humiliation (though he would spin it otherwise).
Trump, one way or another, will go down as a failed leader; Congressional Democrats now have the chance to show themselves as strong ones.
There is much to build on. Russia interfered with our presidential election. Members of Trump's campaign had illicit ties to Russia. The FBI were (are?) investigating whether Trump himself was being blackmailed by Putin. Trump put Michael Flynn in the White House, and tried to cover Flynn's covert dealings with Russia. Trump fired the FBI head, hoping to ease the pressure of investigation on him. Even some Republicans are uncomfortable.
If ever there were an offense which should bring us together, this is it. Yet, impeachment is a divisive process, even for an unpopular president, which Democrats would do well to remember. If Trump saw that impeachment were iminent, it is more likely that he would resign rather than go through it, not to save the country the embitterment, but to save himself the humiliation (though he would spin it otherwise).
Trump, one way or another, will go down as a failed leader; Congressional Democrats now have the chance to show themselves as strong ones.
53
I agree with the sobering tone of the editorial. Of course, we must pursue any evidence of presidential wrongdoing, and that includes oversight of the Trump family's business interests and foreign entanglements. But, the most important thing is stopping a dangerous and disastrous GOP agenda. For that, it's not enough to demonstrate Mr. Trump unfitness for the presidency. We need to mobilize public opinion to defend the role of government, the importance of a robust safety net, the need for regulating the private sector, the defense of civil liberties and minority protections, and the importance of policies that mitigate the glaring inequalities in our society. Sometimes I fear that Democrats are gleeful over Trump's woes because that frees them from crafting and promoting bold policies as a real alternative, or doing anything that shakes up the establishment core of their own party. If Democrats think they can just slide into power riding on Trump's unpopularity, they will be proven wrong...yet again.
22
Impeachment talk should not be considered without solid proof to justify such talk. Doing so just dumps more fuel on the hyper-partisan mood promoted in much of our media.
Should Trump be removed from office we will face Mike Pence as President and I do not want a theocrat of any stripe in charge of our Federal Executive Branch. Mr Pence is closely aligned with the Christian Dominionist movement. While any American should be free to believe as they wish and no religious test should be applied to any candidate or officeholder, someone who has long identified with a movement that is determined to apply their theological vision upon our government & society should be viewed as suspect.
Also of concern is the that removing or hounding from office someone as divisive and controversial as Trump from office without clear cause would seriously undermine the already strained comity among the American people. The dividing line between stable democracies and unstable ones is largely the broad acceptance of the governmental system and that has been seriously strained in the US for some time now.
Shortchange the process and a large portion of the Electorate already distrusting of government and media could become more so to the detriment of our system. I see Trump as a clown, but the American people elected him President and any attempt to remove him must be beyond reproach and not look like railroading.
The potential to harm American Democracy is significant. Be careful.
Should Trump be removed from office we will face Mike Pence as President and I do not want a theocrat of any stripe in charge of our Federal Executive Branch. Mr Pence is closely aligned with the Christian Dominionist movement. While any American should be free to believe as they wish and no religious test should be applied to any candidate or officeholder, someone who has long identified with a movement that is determined to apply their theological vision upon our government & society should be viewed as suspect.
Also of concern is the that removing or hounding from office someone as divisive and controversial as Trump from office without clear cause would seriously undermine the already strained comity among the American people. The dividing line between stable democracies and unstable ones is largely the broad acceptance of the governmental system and that has been seriously strained in the US for some time now.
Shortchange the process and a large portion of the Electorate already distrusting of government and media could become more so to the detriment of our system. I see Trump as a clown, but the American people elected him President and any attempt to remove him must be beyond reproach and not look like railroading.
The potential to harm American Democracy is significant. Be careful.
42
The American people did not elect him. The Electoral College did.
2
While while this editorial is indeed sobering, the current circus is exhausting and embarrassing for the whole country. I hope that an efficient, thorough, level headed investigation is possible. Mr. Mueller's task promises to bring clarity not only to Trump's egregious behavior but to the values the Republicans are showcasing. As long as Trump and the Repubs are tied up with the hourly explosion of news and intrigue the less damage they can do in passing horrible healthcare, damaging laws and greedy tax cuts. The support for a unprepared, intemperate and uneducated leader which exists purely for party power before country, must be understood by Trump supporters along with the rest of us. Otherwise our country will not be able to chalk this one up to "lessons learned" and put this implausible episode to rest and move forward.
6
Trump has acted from the start as if he has been caught with his hand in the worst of all cookie jars. However, Roy Cohen taught him that being under indictment means nothing and that when attacked, attack back, only harder.
That might have worked for Cohen, but this guy is remarkably President of the United States. With the press thoroughly engaged, there is no turning away from the political moments that are bound to come.
Trump has already demonstrated that he's pretty thin-skinned when it comes to taking it. Dishing it out is quite another matter. Already Trump has started to sound the alarm. Again. Before the election his cry was that "the election is rigged." He went to great lengths to pound that nail into his base.
Now it's a witch hunt, with him as the unnecessarily persecuted President.
This is the exit tune that he wants to hum as he heads back to NYC.
Those that imagine this is going to go on for weeks, even months, overestimate Trump's ability to function under that kind of strain.
My guess is the resignation will come as the pressure from Mueller incessantly mounts, and the Comey memos paint an increasingly damaging picture of a self-absorbed President who willfully attempted to obstruct justice.
We're closer to the end than we think.
That might have worked for Cohen, but this guy is remarkably President of the United States. With the press thoroughly engaged, there is no turning away from the political moments that are bound to come.
Trump has already demonstrated that he's pretty thin-skinned when it comes to taking it. Dishing it out is quite another matter. Already Trump has started to sound the alarm. Again. Before the election his cry was that "the election is rigged." He went to great lengths to pound that nail into his base.
Now it's a witch hunt, with him as the unnecessarily persecuted President.
This is the exit tune that he wants to hum as he heads back to NYC.
Those that imagine this is going to go on for weeks, even months, overestimate Trump's ability to function under that kind of strain.
My guess is the resignation will come as the pressure from Mueller incessantly mounts, and the Comey memos paint an increasingly damaging picture of a self-absorbed President who willfully attempted to obstruct justice.
We're closer to the end than we think.
217
Closer to a Pence administration than we think.
1
From your lips to God's ears!
Unfortunately, that leaves us with a real politician, Mike Pence, in charge. Given Mr. Pence's extreme ideology and close affiliation with the Houses' so-called Freedom Caucus, The end may be much further away than we want.
Watergate should not be used as a measurable standard to advocate or oppose impeachment because Watergate represents a worst-case scenario in domestic politics. Not all potential impeachment cases need to be compared to the level of Watergate offenses in order to justify proceedings for removal from office. The situations involving Nixon, Clinton and Trump are all different and unique. Some law professors and scholars believe that the Trump case is even more egregious than Watergate because of the potential that it involved a violation of our national sovereignty by a hostile country and posed a threat to our national security, all with the help of the president and his associates. At this point, it is immaterial whether the circumstances are similar to Watergate. Let the investigations continue and let the chips fall where they may.
89
Local "Trump-support" leaders should seek help from the fields like Psychology to develop better insight for themselves and their leader--don't let history repeat itself.
3
The most obvious reason this investigation into Russian influence has no similarity to Watergate is that Nixon was in power and Trump was not when this alleged influence activities may have taken place. Also beware of the stories tied to anonymous sources - only a week ago we were told the deputy AG who wrote the Comey memo had threatened to resign - he publicly denied that to 535 members of Congress. Feeding frenzies often go badly and investigations from a special counsel wander into unexpected areas - remember that only the Clinton campaign admits to working with a foreign government (Ukraine) and that Comey also likely has memos on his meetings with Lynch and others on the Clinton investigation.
3
We don't grant security clearances to someone who has skeletons in his closet, regardless of when the skeletons were acquired.
1
For now, I'm content as long as actual truth finding is underway. As long as we hold Trump accountable, continue to exert checks on his rage to power. Always be ready to take to the streets. While we work on the elections of 2018, he can stay hobbled in the White House of need be.
Funny, he actually lost his power on the same day he assumed it. January 20. He is going to do harm, but he has no way to win in the long run. Our job now seems to be to keep him in his corner, dig out the truth, and do a lot better job in electing our next political leaders.
Funny, he actually lost his power on the same day he assumed it. January 20. He is going to do harm, but he has no way to win in the long run. Our job now seems to be to keep him in his corner, dig out the truth, and do a lot better job in electing our next political leaders.
137
You go ahead and be "content" while the rest of us are screaming bloody murder over why the GOP has blocked investigations and exerted improper influence to approve flynn and sessions who lied their way into appointments.
1
Christine, Trump is already winning because every day in office his Cabinet is deconstructing the functioning of government of the people, by the people and for the people: v. the front page news about the EPA and eliminating the regulations that keep our air and water from pollution.
1
If we can convince the man it's a win-win situation, we'll be doing him and the nation a big favor. Then there is the Vice President. He needs to learn about compromise. That's another chapter.
The whole predicament is an "if then else" case. I don't think anybody wants to see "else" happen around here, even if it turns out to be the statue quo.
The whole predicament is an "if then else" case. I don't think anybody wants to see "else" happen around here, even if it turns out to be the statue quo.
Time for the Dems to rally around and get out to the voters to inform them, without lies and deceit, about the inept government that the voters, by a narrow margin, got into office. Make their voices count so that they are clearly heard. It is the only way to rid ourselves of the repulsives and pretend president. Stress positivity and stop mud slinging. Going low got what we have.
7
Three people who may hold the key to connecting the dots for the new Special Council Robert Mueller include with some irony, former LT General Michael Flynn who spent a 34 year career in military intelligence "connecting the dots", James Comey who was at the center of the Clinton email and Russian meddling investigations, and finally a wildcard, Julian Assauge who might be offered a safe passage deal to Ecuador in exchange for revealing his source(s) regarding the DNC emails that were released by Wikileaks.
As Senator John McCain said over a week ago..."there are more shoes to drop". We do live in interesting times so expect the unexpected.
As Senator John McCain said over a week ago..."there are more shoes to drop". We do live in interesting times so expect the unexpected.
82
Swedish authorities have dropped the rape investigation of Assange. He can now hide out in the secluded estate of some wealthy "transparency" fan. The CIA would probably love to grab Assange and send him to one of their secret prisons in Poland to extract all he knows about the Russians' use of Wikileaks in the election. Of course Assange hopefully by now realizes the he is far too visible to become the victim of a CIA black bag operation. Besides, the CIA doesn't do these things anymore. LOL
Oh, I don't think that any U.S. citizen who is following trump's crimes would expect anything but the worst out of him and the GOP for their efforts to cover up his crimes.
Watergate, a topic I studied throughout my academic career, was never as threatening as what the present situation has already reached. A paranoid Nixon undermining various institutions and creating a constitutional crisis was certainly shameful and alarming. But that is also happening now...and with the beneficiaries being a hostile foreign adversary, Russia. Nixon abused his office but at least was clearly loyal to America. The current president is abusing his office to the benefit of a foreign adversary that seeks the downfall of America and Western democracy in general.
The 45th president is effectively an agent of a hostile foreign government. It is hardly possible to define a political situation that could be worse. Watergate does not compare.
The 45th president is effectively an agent of a hostile foreign government. It is hardly possible to define a political situation that could be worse. Watergate does not compare.
316
Agreed, this president can't fairly be compared to Nixon or any other president because he is unfit in so many ways, as well as having a family of shameless grifters who are taking advantage while they can to enrich themselves while trashing our values and traditions. The situation is much worse than Watergate and deteriorating more rapidly every day. We are all exhausted – and yet the editorial is right that we need to be careful not too act precipitously. 2018 election can't come soon enough!
1
If the Democrats had subpoena power, this would be a much different ballgame. If they take back the House in 2018, they can do proper investigations that are far more comprehensive than the currents ones. Republicans in 1973 put country over party. Can you ever imagine that from McConnell and Ryan? That will never happen...
41
Neither was the Clinton or Reagan scandals, Iran--Contra being much worse whoever was the culprit. The Clinton impeachment was frivolous and ended my respect for the legislative branch as Trump's election showed that manipulation , voter suppression, corruption, technicalities about the Electoral System created to enhance the power of the slaveholding states malfunctioned yet again. The U.S. governing system has resisted modernization despite the best efforts of its enlightened citizens and academics to change it because in part by design is fixed in its archaic old ways. China more competent government shows in part that there are other ways to choose governments whose rule are more responsive to popular will and defective elections do not guarantee political democracy. Perhaps old age is catching up to the American democracy in its election of unqualified, elderly and incompetent candidates and perhaps more serious thought needs to be given despite the best efforts of our 230 year old founder's work to how our government is chosen. There needs to be experimentation in the form of our government and objective criteria devised to rate a governments performance. Without use of the scientific method our governance will reduce and remain mediocre despite our founder's best efforts
8
A better idea.
Let them do their investigation in the background, and find nothing, as they have for the past year.
In the meantime, the Democrats need to roll up their sleeves and start working with Trump and the Republicans on issues which actually matter to Americans. Like the economy, global safety, human rights, infrastructure and quality of life.
It seems the only thing Democrats are good at are complaining, protesting and smearing America
Let them do their investigation in the background, and find nothing, as they have for the past year.
In the meantime, the Democrats need to roll up their sleeves and start working with Trump and the Republicans on issues which actually matter to Americans. Like the economy, global safety, human rights, infrastructure and quality of life.
It seems the only thing Democrats are good at are complaining, protesting and smearing America
3
Bernie doesn't do that. He has a vision. The country doesn't. Proverbs says" Withouta vision the people perish". That's what's happening.
3
It's better for Democrats to let Trump and republicans have their way. I'm convinced Trump supporters need to suffer the consequences of his policies to teach them why they shouldn't have voted for him. If they don't learn then they keep suffering. Democrats should not do anything up help them.
2
Just wondering ... when the GOP spent 8 years obstructing Pres. Obama in every possible way, from absurd Benghazi investigations to surreal, incessant questioning about his birth certificate, right up until the end by preventing him from filling a vacant SCOTUS seat ... were you writing comments advocating that the GOP "roll up their sleeves and start working with Obama"?
I hope so.
I hope so.
4
In announcing the appointment of a special council, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said: "My decision is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted.” FBI agents have been investigating the Trump campaign and Trump associates in hopes of discovering a crime to investigate. This fits the common definition of a witch hunt. In the Watergate Scandal, there was a crime to investigate. Five operatives paid by the Nixon reelection campaign were caught red-handed as they broke into Democratic National Committee Headquarters in hope of stealing campaign secrets. During their trial, they implicated senior White House staff member. This sets Watergate apart from the collusion conspiracy theory, which has suspects but no crime. It's not enough to allege collusion occurred; someone has to say what act or acts constituted collusion.
4
Documented face to face meetings and phone calls between several members of Trump's inner circle and Russian individuals in important positions...
apparent Russian hacking activity that benefited Trump's campaign at a very convenient moment...
Corroboration of several of the smaller items in the Steele Russia dossier raising questions about an increased likelihood of other items in that dossier also being true...
No single smoking gun ... YET ... but a lot of smoke suggesting there may well be a fire somewhere
(Please pardon the mixed metaphor.)
apparent Russian hacking activity that benefited Trump's campaign at a very convenient moment...
Corroboration of several of the smaller items in the Steele Russia dossier raising questions about an increased likelihood of other items in that dossier also being true...
No single smoking gun ... YET ... but a lot of smoke suggesting there may well be a fire somewhere
(Please pardon the mixed metaphor.)
3
Republicans could impeach Christ himself if they wanted to. Why are we waiting for this Trump to wreck the country? There is no administration of the country, only mis-administration. Many people, including many republicans, knew this man was damaged and unfit for the office of President before he took the oath. If I were a republican, I would not want Trump hanging around my neck at election time. Republicans should take some advice and get him out of there.
69
I am relieved by the tone of this Editorial.
Democrats ought to aspire to be the adults in the room, with a responsible attitude and responsible ideas. This uses Trump's behavior as a very low bar above which they can rise very far.
That is the real path to fixing what Trump has done, and what Republicans really are more generally.
There is a danger that outrage lowers the Democrats to the level of Republicans. This is a constant danger in the courtroom. An advocate must be careful always to keep his emotions from getting out ahead of judge and jury.
That is often difficult, because in the nature of things the advocate knows extremely well just why outrage is justified. Justified is not the same as the best move. This is serious stuff, and Democrats need to make the best move, not just go for self indulgence of their feelings, however well informed those feelings may be.
Democrats must be seen to appeal to voters, not insult them. They must be seen to appeal to the remedy of democracy, not challenge the election outcome and deny what happened. They needn't like what happened, but it happened. Trump won. Now what? Move on.
Move on to showing how much better the Democrats are. Tower over them, make voters wish the Democrats were in charge.
That is far more than just attacking Trump, attacking voters, belittling the election, and blaming all and sundry, anybody but themselves for losing.
Democrats ought to aspire to be the adults in the room, with a responsible attitude and responsible ideas. This uses Trump's behavior as a very low bar above which they can rise very far.
That is the real path to fixing what Trump has done, and what Republicans really are more generally.
There is a danger that outrage lowers the Democrats to the level of Republicans. This is a constant danger in the courtroom. An advocate must be careful always to keep his emotions from getting out ahead of judge and jury.
That is often difficult, because in the nature of things the advocate knows extremely well just why outrage is justified. Justified is not the same as the best move. This is serious stuff, and Democrats need to make the best move, not just go for self indulgence of their feelings, however well informed those feelings may be.
Democrats must be seen to appeal to voters, not insult them. They must be seen to appeal to the remedy of democracy, not challenge the election outcome and deny what happened. They needn't like what happened, but it happened. Trump won. Now what? Move on.
Move on to showing how much better the Democrats are. Tower over them, make voters wish the Democrats were in charge.
That is far more than just attacking Trump, attacking voters, belittling the election, and blaming all and sundry, anybody but themselves for losing.
207
Every time the Democrats are told THEY must be the adults in the room the Republicans gain in electoral depth and strength in the next election cycle.
No one is denying Trump won and the Dems have moved on to being what EVERY minority party is expected to be: the opposition.
They need to learn from the tactics and strategies demonstrated by the Republicans over the past 40 years that, first, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the white voter for whom then, now and in the future, race trumps all.
BTW, in 2016 the Dems gained seats in the House, gained seats in the Senate and even picked up a governor's race.
How is that losing?
No one is denying Trump won and the Dems have moved on to being what EVERY minority party is expected to be: the opposition.
They need to learn from the tactics and strategies demonstrated by the Republicans over the past 40 years that, first, never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the white voter for whom then, now and in the future, race trumps all.
BTW, in 2016 the Dems gained seats in the House, gained seats in the Senate and even picked up a governor's race.
How is that losing?
7
Mark,
"Towering over" someone is how the Democrats have lost power from the presidency to Congress down to the local dog catcher.
First, people, more than ever are not rational beings. They respond to fear, which the GOP has mastered.
Second, and most important, Democratic Party support among moderate and left-leaning voters is weak, at best. One of the recurring complaints among these two groups that the Democratic Party not only does not have any coherent theme, but they do not fight for anything, instead choosing to stand mute and tossing their hands up in the air.
For me, the impeachment of Donald Trump is a moment in history that will show whether the Democratic Party does stand for something - such as "minor" principles of clean government and fidelity to our country.
"Towering over" someone is how the Democrats have lost power from the presidency to Congress down to the local dog catcher.
First, people, more than ever are not rational beings. They respond to fear, which the GOP has mastered.
Second, and most important, Democratic Party support among moderate and left-leaning voters is weak, at best. One of the recurring complaints among these two groups that the Democratic Party not only does not have any coherent theme, but they do not fight for anything, instead choosing to stand mute and tossing their hands up in the air.
For me, the impeachment of Donald Trump is a moment in history that will show whether the Democratic Party does stand for something - such as "minor" principles of clean government and fidelity to our country.
4
Fine comment, and exactly right. Dems must take the high road not just as a matter of principle, but for practical political reasons. Millions of Trump voters voted for Obama not once, but twice. Many are already having second thoughts, and could come back to the Democratic fold in 2018. We must give them every reason to do so.
3
"When the Supreme Court ruled that the tapes were fair game for investigators, the nation finally grasped the extent of Mr. Nixon’s scheming. Denials from his “silent majority” base became pointless."
Not there yet? Perhaps not. But it took more than two years from the date of the Watergate break in until the smoking-gun tape confirming Nixon's criminality became public. Judging from his own statements, Donald Trump appears to be way ahead of that schedule.
Not there yet? Perhaps not. But it took more than two years from the date of the Watergate break in until the smoking-gun tape confirming Nixon's criminality became public. Judging from his own statements, Donald Trump appears to be way ahead of that schedule.
97
"Watergate? We're Not There Yet"
Yes,we are not there yet, but don't forget that we are living in inter net era, things move much faster today than during Nixon's time. During the Watergate era ,there was no inter net, no cable TV and no 24 hours news. Times and things have changed since Watergate. We will be seeing a "Watergate" sooner than you expect..
Yes,we are not there yet, but don't forget that we are living in inter net era, things move much faster today than during Nixon's time. During the Watergate era ,there was no inter net, no cable TV and no 24 hours news. Times and things have changed since Watergate. We will be seeing a "Watergate" sooner than you expect..
117
Internet is one word.
1
We've already seen obstruction of justice on a scale that would have had a GOP Congress building a gallows for a Democratic president. Yes, it would be wiser to focus on the midterm elections, but the incompetence, lies and corruption of this administration are already cause for impeachment.
473
Ordinarily, we find ourselves agreeing with the Editorial Board, but in this case we're on the side of Richard Painter's and Norman Eisen's op-ed this week:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/opinion/trump-comey-memo-obstruction-...
making the point that impeachment is a political act, as intended by the Founders - it is not a finding of criminality.
It is agreed that GOP'ers are trying to stall/delay investigations now that Mueller has been appointed, but those are just more of the same tactics like the White House forbidding Sally Yates to testify, like House committee chairman Devin Nunes's tactics of White House driveway press conferences, and like House committee chairman Jason Chaffetz's tactics re:emergency surgery, etc., etc.
What also makes this a situation where we shouldn't wait for criminality to be proven are the reported remarks in June 2016 from Rep. Kevin McCarthey regarding djt being paid by Putin, and Speaker Ryan's prompt response of requiring all the GOP'ers present then to swear secrecy:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-le...
The seriousness of our current situation, not to mention the status of communications where a POTUS can dispute a Congressional witness with real-time tweets, requires urgent action.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/opinion/trump-comey-memo-obstruction-...
making the point that impeachment is a political act, as intended by the Founders - it is not a finding of criminality.
It is agreed that GOP'ers are trying to stall/delay investigations now that Mueller has been appointed, but those are just more of the same tactics like the White House forbidding Sally Yates to testify, like House committee chairman Devin Nunes's tactics of White House driveway press conferences, and like House committee chairman Jason Chaffetz's tactics re:emergency surgery, etc., etc.
What also makes this a situation where we shouldn't wait for criminality to be proven are the reported remarks in June 2016 from Rep. Kevin McCarthey regarding djt being paid by Putin, and Speaker Ryan's prompt response of requiring all the GOP'ers present then to swear secrecy:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-le...
The seriousness of our current situation, not to mention the status of communications where a POTUS can dispute a Congressional witness with real-time tweets, requires urgent action.
235
> impeachment is a political act, as intended by the Founders - it is not a finding of criminality.
Yes, but impeachment is also not a vehicle for reversing an election because we detested the outcome from day one. Imagine just how destructive it would have been to American democracy if the effort to impeach and remove Bill Clinton from office had succeeded; removing Trump without a national consensus that includes many of those who initially supported him and have become disillusioned would be no less destructive.
Yes, but impeachment is also not a vehicle for reversing an election because we detested the outcome from day one. Imagine just how destructive it would have been to American democracy if the effort to impeach and remove Bill Clinton from office had succeeded; removing Trump without a national consensus that includes many of those who initially supported him and have become disillusioned would be no less destructive.
10
Eric - Impeachment would require substantial GOP'er votes in both Houses, meaning it would be a bipartisan act if successful.
Thought question: what would your position be - and that of GOP'er legislators and voters - if the shoe were on the other foot, and Hillary were in the White House, with it being announced there is a senior White House advisor close to her who is a 'person of significant interest' to the DOJ investigating the cover-up of Russian collusion to get Hillary elected by a 70,000 vote margin that swung the electoral college ?
Bearing in mind that Obama was elected and re-elected with margins over 50%, yet GOP'er legislators felt perfectly within their rights to obstruct/blockade for 8 years, and violated their oaths by refusing to even acknowledge Scalia's seat at SCOTUS was empty.
Democrats should use their political power the same as GOP'ers did (and are), even though GOP'er tactics in Dem hands are found to be upsetting by some - the same people who were only a little upset at a GOP'er shouting 'you lie' during Obama's SOTU speech, will be apoplectic when a Dem does the same thing to a GOP'er some day, but it will happen; perhaps soon.
Dem disruption is as good as GOP'er disruption, and what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander :)
Thought question: what would your position be - and that of GOP'er legislators and voters - if the shoe were on the other foot, and Hillary were in the White House, with it being announced there is a senior White House advisor close to her who is a 'person of significant interest' to the DOJ investigating the cover-up of Russian collusion to get Hillary elected by a 70,000 vote margin that swung the electoral college ?
Bearing in mind that Obama was elected and re-elected with margins over 50%, yet GOP'er legislators felt perfectly within their rights to obstruct/blockade for 8 years, and violated their oaths by refusing to even acknowledge Scalia's seat at SCOTUS was empty.
Democrats should use their political power the same as GOP'ers did (and are), even though GOP'er tactics in Dem hands are found to be upsetting by some - the same people who were only a little upset at a GOP'er shouting 'you lie' during Obama's SOTU speech, will be apoplectic when a Dem does the same thing to a GOP'er some day, but it will happen; perhaps soon.
Dem disruption is as good as GOP'er disruption, and what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander :)
3
To echo President Obama's initial note, all Americans, or humanity for that matter, should root for Trump's successes.
Who would want Trump to go down like Nixon? No one in the right mind wanted that to happen. Some Republicans may be, who have yearned for a Pence Administration from the start. Why would Democrats want that?
That said, if Trump and/or his people did put their ambitions or pathologies before the interests of the nation, they must go. There is no if or but, even if the anti True Believers have to fight a coordinated regressive regime. Defending genuine democracy is job number one!
Who would want Trump to go down like Nixon? No one in the right mind wanted that to happen. Some Republicans may be, who have yearned for a Pence Administration from the start. Why would Democrats want that?
That said, if Trump and/or his people did put their ambitions or pathologies before the interests of the nation, they must go. There is no if or but, even if the anti True Believers have to fight a coordinated regressive regime. Defending genuine democracy is job number one!
33
I would. I in my right mind would root for Trump to exit like Nixon. The short term turmoil pales in comparison to the long term damage that will be inflicted on our institutions.
11
I'm disturbed this editorial which seems to imply that in an age of political polarization with a GOP majority in both houses of Congress that the problems of this president aren't worth pursuing.
Yes, Watergate occurred in a different era. Yes, Americans were on the same page when it came to political malfeasance made manifest with the tapes. And yes, cover-ups and bribery are high crimes and misdemeanors.
But so is treason. Should Robert Mueller be able to connect the dots linking the numerous oddities of data linking various members of the Trump campaign, and even his son in law, to Russian oligarchs, to money laundering, to desperate moves by a presidential candidate forced to pay off his Russian debt in malfeasance, well, then, Trump's Russian mess would be far greater than Watergate.
Russia hacked our electoral process by stealing and releasing unflattering emails from the DNC servers, that much is a given. But if this "act of war" as some have called it were aided and abetted by an American citizen who stood to gain great riches from this advantage, and/or agree to do the bidding of our nation's greatest adversary, well--what would the Editorial Board say then?
That it isn't a crime if it can't be prosecuted because the GOP has control of all three branches of government?
Yes, Watergate occurred in a different era. Yes, Americans were on the same page when it came to political malfeasance made manifest with the tapes. And yes, cover-ups and bribery are high crimes and misdemeanors.
But so is treason. Should Robert Mueller be able to connect the dots linking the numerous oddities of data linking various members of the Trump campaign, and even his son in law, to Russian oligarchs, to money laundering, to desperate moves by a presidential candidate forced to pay off his Russian debt in malfeasance, well, then, Trump's Russian mess would be far greater than Watergate.
Russia hacked our electoral process by stealing and releasing unflattering emails from the DNC servers, that much is a given. But if this "act of war" as some have called it were aided and abetted by an American citizen who stood to gain great riches from this advantage, and/or agree to do the bidding of our nation's greatest adversary, well--what would the Editorial Board say then?
That it isn't a crime if it can't be prosecuted because the GOP has control of all three branches of government?
489
Christine,
The "Treason" Trump committed was to win in the first place. You don't have the votes for impeachment and even if you did Pence is not your "man".
Both the "Pen and Phone" as well as the courts are gone. Your agenda is delayed by at least a generation or more. Even Joe Biden can see what the "Problem" was, but Liberals here still don't get it.
Bernie Sanders was the best choice. You ran 3.0 which was the 3rd best choice and lost.
Superdelegates like elections have consequences.
The "Treason" Trump committed was to win in the first place. You don't have the votes for impeachment and even if you did Pence is not your "man".
Both the "Pen and Phone" as well as the courts are gone. Your agenda is delayed by at least a generation or more. Even Joe Biden can see what the "Problem" was, but Liberals here still don't get it.
Bernie Sanders was the best choice. You ran 3.0 which was the 3rd best choice and lost.
Superdelegates like elections have consequences.
1
You rocked it, Christine!
5
The proper historical American antecedents for the threat to America posed by Donald Trump are neither Richard Nixon nor Jefferson Davis but Benedict Arnold along with Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
3
No Howard Baker in the wings?
No Patriot's conscience that stings?
No pro Health Care labors
No shame for the Neighbors,
At ridicule Trump's lying brings!
No Patriot's conscience that stings?
No pro Health Care labors
No shame for the Neighbors,
At ridicule Trump's lying brings!
112
Let's get down to the gist,
and give the rope 'nother twist,
the line is long, the wind is strong,
soon the GOP will dehisce.
and give the rope 'nother twist,
the line is long, the wind is strong,
soon the GOP will dehisce.
1
Larry,
A "Watergate " is your Hope!
Because Liberals can't stand the "Dope".
The Times can't find "DeepThroat"!
So they make it up by rote.
Since the concept they just can't stand
Secession is the "talk" of Blue Land.
Impeachment would also be grand
A Special Counsel was not their plan.
The Blame is their's they can't see.
They supported Obama 3!
Super Delegates the "Original Sin".
That's how Trump got in.
They really don't have a plan.
Just march and burn down the land!
'18 will be just grand
We'll do it all over again.
A "Watergate " is your Hope!
Because Liberals can't stand the "Dope".
The Times can't find "DeepThroat"!
So they make it up by rote.
Since the concept they just can't stand
Secession is the "talk" of Blue Land.
Impeachment would also be grand
A Special Counsel was not their plan.
The Blame is their's they can't see.
They supported Obama 3!
Super Delegates the "Original Sin".
That's how Trump got in.
They really don't have a plan.
Just march and burn down the land!
'18 will be just grand
We'll do it all over again.
3
Now we have a president who cannot tell the truth. Spills his guts to the Russians about everything he knows. Fortunately for us, that is not much. Has a meeting with Russian Agents in the Oval Office, no American Press allowed, Russian Press present. Then he gets angry when his treason is leaked to the media. Nothing applies to this guy.