Trumpcare Is Already Hurting Trump Country

Just the threat that Republicans may destroy Obamacare has led insurers to pull out or raise rates in some states next year.

Comments: 96

  1. As far as I'm concerned they got exactly what they voted for so they have no right to complain.

  2. Such are the wages of sin.

  3. But isn't that what they were already doing under Obamacare? I get the feeling they'll do whatever they can to avoid having to pay anything regardless of what plan they're invited to extort.

  4. Good. Fewer Trump voters is what America needs now. If they want to let Darwinian forces figure it out for us, that's fine with me.

  5. Let insurers pull out. in fact, force them out with a true national health system. People don't need to pay any part of a CEO's outrageous compensation package to get a shot for the kids.

  6. This is pure propaganda and it amazes me that anyone would fall for it. "The mere threat that Obamacare will be dismantled or radically changed — either by Congress or by President Trump himself — has persuaded several big insurance companies to stop selling policies or significantly raise premiums. "

    Does anyone own a calendar ? Aetna, United, Humana all announced they were pulling out of the Obamacare mess before Trump was even elected.

    And the $7 bn insurance bailout that the article refers to is not the result of Trump, but rather a Federal District Judge who ruled that such payments violated the Constitution since Congress had not authorized them.

    The simple fact is that Obamacare is falling apart mainly because (like much of liberal orthodoxy), it rests on the premise that you can order or entice people to do things that would not be in their economic interest. For example, the young and healthy are ordered to buy insurance at much higher rates than they would otherwise get in order to subsidize the sick. Likewise, insurance companies are enticed to support Obamacare but simply cannot do so when they are losing money on the Exchanges and denied large premium increases. Instead, both healthy individuals and insurance companies are saying "thanks, but no thanks". And the Death Spiral worsens. That's on the Dems.

  7. You are partly correct Princeton 2015 -- that the insurance markets were struggling before Trump. But that is because while insurance companies have need stability, the GOP gave them chaos. While they need the healthy need to sign up, the GOP has discouraged them. While insurance companies needed to be covered for unexpected losses, GOP Senator Marco Rubio quietly and proudly undermined that piece of the ACA. For years, the GOP has been kicking the legs out from under the ACA and then saying, "See! It doesn't work!"

  8. You can run but you can't hide. The responsibility for Obamacare is right there in the name. "While they need the healthy need to sign up, the GOP has discouraged them. " It wasn't the GOP who created Obamacare and insisted that the young and healthy pay about twice their expected health costs. That was Dems. "While insurance companies needed to be covered for unexpected losses." What you call "unexpected losses" is a insurance company bailout. And I'm proud of Senator Rubio for preventing that. Haven't we had enough bailouts ? No Republican voted for Obamacare This is your mess. Own it.

  9. What is always missing from these editorials is the timing. The reality is that those who will be hurt won't really feel it all until 2029, so the 2016 election may still go red. Better to end it tomorrow. And then let the GOP face the reality. By 2020 many (or in Trump speak many, very very many)will be either dead or on Medicare. Medicare receipiants are notorious in hating single payer for everyone else but them.

  10. If insurers want a federal bailout, then let’s talk about terms and conditions.

  11. How sad is it that the Trump voters probably will blame Obama and the Democrats when the exchanges fail because Trump and the GOP destroyed them? In the words of Ray Collins in Citizen Kane, "You're going to need more than one lesson and you're going to get more than one lesson."

  12. Single Payer paid for easily with tax increases, Eisenhower style, on those who don't worry about a roof over their heads, food on the table, employment which supports society, health care and poisons in their environment.

  13. Who's fault is that if someone has such worries? What do Bill Gates, Mike Bloomberg, Warren Buffet or even Martin Shrekeli owe you or me?

  14. We all know that the so-called "Trumpcare" proposal is literally nothing about healthcare, and everything about budget-cutting (cuts in Medicaid and Subsidies to providers) and the elimination of the 3.8% tax on the most wealthy tax-payers. The Proposal contains NO details on healthcare, because its objective is to minimize it!
    The "healthcare" (Trumpcare) issue will end up eroding potential GOP votes in the 2018 mid-term elections and, if the Dems invest time and money in key Red States and properly target the "working class" 2016 Trump voters, big changes in Congress will occur in 2018 and 2020.

  15. This is not so befuddling when you realize that the plan is to blame the damage on Obama and the Democrats. Many of these voters have very limited news sources and buy into the myth that the coastal media are liberal tools. Republicans have toiled for decades to put these voters right where they want them: a devoted, almost masochistic, base who will tolerate all manner of hardships in support of ideology.

  16. The ACA is not perfect and could have used a little bipartisan tweaking, but the Rs made sure that their "tweaks" were actually a massive gutting of healthcare for the poor, elderly, and working poor. As a consequence, the AHCA will devastate and is already devastating health care for many families. This is well-known among Americans and is opposed by a majority of us. But the Rs will never learn until they unlock a few little things: empathy, compassion, and common sense.

    Don't hold your breath!

  17. I can only think back to the Irish starvation where the neoliberals let one million Irish peasants starve to death and a million other live in dire stress to safeguard Ireland's food export economy.
    Each year of the potato blight the landowner of Ireland exported enough food to feed the hungry for the entire duration of the blight. Today's neoliberals echoes the Whigs and some Tories of a previous generation "It is the economy, stupid."
    Only Berrnie Sanders has stated what I thought was the America response. it is not the economy it is the people our morals and our principles, stupid.

  18. It's hurting Trump Country? And why should I care? These people ENTHUSIASTICALLY wanted Trump and the end of Obamacare!
    Republicans like to think they are the party of personal responsibility. Well, for all those Trump voters that bill is now due, demanding payment. And what is that payment? Their loss of health care, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, decent schools, clean air and jobs IS NOW THEIR FAULT!

    Sorry, but the GOP has "won" and this is what their win means to the people who enthusiastically voted for them.

  19. Having listened to NPR interviews of Trump supporters who claim that they follow "their own versions of the facts," I am not optimistic that the core of Trump supporters, no matter how much they will suffer, have the cognitive ability to connect the dots and understand what is really going on. In many ways, the Republican health care initiatives are basically genocidal in their effect.

  20. Two thoughts

    1. Voting with your "gut" (Trump vote) will cause stomach ulcers. These will not be covered as they are considered "post-existing" conditions.

    2. Health care is expensive because it costs too much. The reason it costs too much is Healthcare is too monopolized. It's time to break up "the big banks" and not allow doctors, hospitals, big pharma, and insurance companies to entwine their DNA together. All should be forced into completely separate entities. When your doctor is also your health insurance saleswoman, (I mean salesman, as only men are in charge of healthcare finances according to pre-existing GOP rules) and hospital financier - you'll have BIG ulcers and your wallet will hemorrhage.

  21. So people again voted against their own economic interest and we should feel bad. Personally I hope that the Republicans repeal the ACA and cut Medicaid. Maybe people need to loose something for them to appreciate what they had.

  22. Gerrymandering enables the GOP to take all with just over a third of popular support, so these polls won't phase them. All they need to worry about is that one-third. And that third only listens to Fox News, so they'll never know or understand that fading healthcare is anything other than Pres. Obama or the Democratic Party's fault.

    If the DNC really cares, they need to work harder on effective outreach in the rural and blue collar working class areas.

  23. What’s bizarre about the Republican strategy is that it considers the health care of the People a commodity that can be used to make obscene profits from.
    The problem with health care is the insurance companies strangle hold on the idea of health care for profit. We, the people can provide healthcare for everyone of us. Removing the for profit insurance companies from the equation will actually pay the providers of health care, doctors, nurses etcetera with better incomes when that "profit" is eliminated from the cost.
    Also we need tens of thousands more doctors of all kinds whth everyone of them trained for free. People will not become doctors to become rich. They will become doctors because the are motivated by the profession.
    Health, like education is a right. How much money one has or what color they are or who their parents are or were will soon not determine anything about either health care or Education. This is the unavoidable future into which this planet is evolving. The anomaly of self promoted exclusive and superior beings is a quaint left over from the pre-human stages. They are walking extinctions. At the rate we are evolving , I would give them another 20 years or so.
    Remember, the dinosaurs!

  24. Nonsense. Healthcare and education, like food, shelter and clothing should be relative to your value to the free market as reflected by your wealth and income. Most people from Queens, say, should not expect anything in their lives to be even close to what is available to someone who grows up on Park Ave. Otherwise, what is the point of achievement? My boss has been very vocal on this subject for all of the more than three decades I've worked there. He makes a valid point when he says "You don't get to have the things I have because I'm the boss and you're not." Coupled with the fact that everything an employee has is paid out of their employers pockets, he's correct.

  25. "Healthcare and education, like food, shelter and clothing should be relative to your value to the free market as reflected by your wealth and income."

    Okay. So let's get rid of the other socialist programs, like the police and the fire department. (They are not in the Constitution.) You can pay for your own private security guards. And if your house catches on fire, pay your own bucket brigade. And then there are the civil courts. If you have a business dispute over a contract, you can just go break your counter-party's kneecaps.

    Only then will America be great again.

  26. Don't you feel any shame for enjoying benefits you haven't paid for in full, like a public school education, perhaps emergency medical care or even something as routine as using a public park. Unless you've paid $38,000,000 a year in federal taxes and additional millions in more local taxes, levies, fees and assessments (like a certain President) you are being subsidized by others.

  27. And for some strange reason we're supposed to feel something for heartland voters who, with the help of rampant gerrymandering and our non-proportional, undemocratic electoral collage, laughed at their fellow citizens on our East and West coasts when out of shear ignorance they voted in djt. It's not like djt and his team of plutocrats didn't say exactly what they had in mind for TrumpCare, namely "pay or die, suckers". But then again, the heartland gets the healthcare they deserve when they thought 'repeal and replace' was a wonderful plan and just what they all needed.
    I retired at 70 and am now 73. Together with my wife we pay over $11,000/year for healthcare and we are remarkably healthy. I expect if the Republicans ram through their healthcare insurance executive protection and enrichment law (aka 'TrumpCare) our cost for good healthcare will double in a decade or less. I don't think the average person who voted in djt has any real understanding of just how crazy and unnecessarily costly American healthcare is. We need single payer, and we need it now. Insurance companies can sell add on optional cosmetic, or private hospital room insurance.

  28. I met a young heir to a gas/oil business who supports t rump because he seems to be friendlier to business that Clinton or the democrats are supposed to be. And that is a very common perception that some people have.
    The reality though is far different: Commerce doesn't thrive during periods of chaos and uncertainty (except for the military industrial complex). Business people like to see that some stability will provide them with the ability to plan expansions and new products and services.
    When t rump is flailing around, elbows and hands akimbo, his supporters see someone who is full of surprises, someone who will do the unexpected to achieve great results. I see someone about to fall of the cliff, flailing about trying to keep his balance.
    I keep wondering about these supposed big business brains; if Obama was so unfriendly to corporations and businesses why did the stock market and the wealth of folks like the Kochs double during his terms?

  29. The Republicans have been sabotaging the ACA from the moment it was implemented, wounding it with a thousand cuts.

    Villainizing the president who promoted it.
    Demonizing their own idea - the individual nandate.
    Refusing to even consider making the changes that would make it work better.
    Doing everything they could to undermine its succes and let costs and premiums rising.
    Refusing to expand medicaid in many states controlled by Republicans.

    The list goes on.

    Of course they blame the ACA and the Democrats for it all. But everyone except those who believe anything the anti-ACA partisans tell them, know who is responsible for depriving Americans of the only health care that many could afford, and good health care, at that.

    The Republicans.

  30. Insurers have stopped selling policies and/or raised rates because of the potential for new legislation and not due to the actual in place ACA? No one other than the choir you preach to will believe that absurd argument. Good talking point though.

  31. This is an open letter to all Americans regarding your retirement choices and health care choices.

    After living 14 years as an American expatriate and immigrant to the wonderful and welcoming country of France I've finally given up on trying to use my California Anthem Blue Cross employment insurance and my Medicare retiree health insurance.

    Blue Cross California provides almost no out of state coverage for retirees who leave the state and Medical provides no out of country coverage for American expatriates living outside the US. As a result I'm a new proud recipient of France's high rated national health plan, Carte Vitale.

    As a non citizen and foreign residential on a long term visa, I'm required to pay 8% of my retired income per year to pay for Carte Vitale. Additionally, I've opted to purchase a supplemental insurance for those deductibles not covered by the primary plan. This total cost of 10,000 dollars per year is still less than most European private health plans for married couples.

    For all Americans contemplating escaping Trump's America, please consider a retirement in another friendlier country. The decision to become an expatriate was the best in my life!

  32. Americans....I forgot to mention that as an expatriate you will be required to pay your American income tax for the rest of your life. If you are working in your newly adopted country, you may also have to pay income tax from your earned income from both countries.

    Clearly, it makes the most sense to retire as an expatriate!

  33. I used Obamacare for two years. I live in a rural area in NY which has access to a local hospital and UVM in Vermont. It worked for me and I found the rates and increases comparable to a recent job I had left. ACA needs to be fixed but it does work for many people. The money saved would also be significant.

  34. The problem with all of this, is for any of it to matter the people being hurt by this must be able to understand who is actually hurting them. I don't think I have to be Nostradamus to predict that the majority of the Trump voters who will be hurt by Trump's actions will be fed some story about how this is all Obama's fault, and with access to no other information, they will believe it.

  35. The fundamental flaw with the ACA was letting people wait until they got sick to sign up for coverage. (And, the penalty was far too small to discourage this behavior.) It is like having someone wait until they die to purchase life insurance. It didn't work. It will never work.

    Until there is a sufficient penalty for delaying purchase and/or an imposition of a waiting period, as in a year or two, for preexisting conditions for those who had the chance to sign up and didn't, the premiums will never be affordable, the insurance companies will lose money and, therefore, won't participate and it will simply be a program for the sick.

  36. "What’s bizarre about the Republican strategy is that it is likely to cause the most damage where many of Mr. Trump’s supporters live." Why does the Editorial Board find this so bizarre? For decades, the GOP have been treating their base with massive contempt and it has worked. Why? Because they know that these voters will fall for the cultural resentment card every single time.

  37. Dear Editorial Board: Thank you for the sensible explanation of how insurance works and why it doesn't. We're contorting ourselves into complicated knots just so some people can make money on the side from our health care needs. It is an excellent case for single-payer. Meanwhile, back at the GOP Ranch: Republicans ought to be mindful of their constituents, but the awful fact is THEY DON'T CARE.

  38. I have purchased health insurance with no subsidy, but with a ridiculously high deductible, for my college-aged daughter on the ACA exchange for the past three years. Over these three years, her rates have more than TRIPLED and she has received ZERO benefit for the cost - every expense has been paid out of pocket. Insurance companies have gone from three to one here. Who knows if we'll have an insurance provider in our area for 2018. Last year, we received a letter that BCBS was withdrawing for 2017 because the unforeseen costs of the new, sick enrollees made covering our area unsustainable. The ACA website has not functioned well in our experience. The help line is not very helpful and the insurance companies can't tell you much either. Each year, the enrollment process has been fraught with problems. ALL of this was BEFORE TRUMP! It's not looking like the Republicans can get their act together to make things a whole lot better, but it's a FACT that the ACA is sinking from its own weight - something many of us believed would happen from the beginning. I suspect that it was set up to fail so that national single payer healthcare could be ushered in. I do believe there are ways to provide adequate health care for the most needy and deserving while having everyone else share the cost, but the ACA was and is not it, nor is a national single payer system. Having lived a brief time in the UK I saw nationalized healthcare firsthand and would hate to see it happen here.

  39. Your only good fortune here is that your daughter is likely in her twenties and not her sixties like my wife.

    We do not receive a subsidy. Three years ago, the monthly premium to cover me, my wife and two children in their twenties was about $900/month. The plan had a $4,000 individual deductible, $8,000 for the family.
    We could access any Doctor in the US who took Blue Cross.

    Today, coverage for my wife alone costs just under $1,000/month. Her deductible is $8,000. She is restricted to a relatively tight and local network.

    I think the ACHA is mean-spirited and unworkable, but how can anyone call the Obamacare numbers related above "affordable?"

  40. Tennessee did not accept the expanded Medicaid part of Obamacare. So you do not really have the Affordable Care Act in Tennessee. The ACA is a package. It works when you have all the pieces working together. But certain states like Tennessee and Florida did not, for ideological reasons, accept the expanded Medicaid. If Tennessee had accepted the expanded Medicaid, more people would be eligible for insurance in your state, making it a more desirable place for more insurance companies to do business. More companies competing for business tends to put downward pressure on prices (i.e. premiums). In fact, if your daughter is a full-time student, and if you are not taking her as a dependent on your tax return, she would probably be eligible for comprehensive medical care at no cost as part of the Medicaid expansion part of the ACA. So tell your local officials and your governor that you want them to accept the expanded Medicaid provision of the Affordable Care Act. If that goes against your grain, keep paying costly premiums for a high-deductible plan. And ask yourself what it would be like if Americans could wake up each morning, as people do in many other countries, and not think about how to pay for medical care or medical insurance. Here in New York State our Department of Health worked WITH the ACA and took on the expanded Medicaid. Consequently, many insurance companies offer affordable plans here in all configurations from Bronze to Platinum.

  41. > There’s no new Affordable Care Act yet; the House passed a very bad bill, but the Senate has yet to act.

    It turns out that the Senate can't act, at least not with respect to "the bill," because the bill has not actually left the House and been given to the Senate. Leadership is silently sitting on it, so that they can go through their own bill and make sure it satisfies Senate rules. Which they should have done before passing the bill, to be sure. House membership is just learning that their voted-on bill has not even left the House.

    And so the House may actually have to vote, *again*, on the same bill with whatever repairs it needs, before the Senate ever sees the bill.

  42. "What’s bizarre about the Republican strategy is that it is likely to cause the most damage where many of Mr. Trump’s supporters live."

    The Trump supporters bought his vague campaign promises to provide health care for everyone at lower premiums without even questioning how this would be done or the specifics of a policy. It may be hard to feel sympathy for insurance companies but it is even more difficult to feel sympathy for Trump supporters who will be faced with exorbitant costs and/or significantly reduced coverage. Bizarre, yes. Ironic, definitely.

  43. Those voters in the red states and rural districts have no one to blame but themselves. It was no secret what would happen to the Affordable Healthcare Act is Trump got elected.

    Now, they are going to have to fight like hell to save what they need and go out in droves and vote Democrat, it's that simple. Hillary Clinton was clear on Healthcare, and she really is a policy wonk unlike that lying phony Paul Ryan.

    Hillary Clinton told everyone what would happen, and she made healthcare a priority, to make improvements to the Affordable Healthcare Act (Obama-care) and strengthen for all families. All Paul Ryan, has every whined about was repealing Obama-care for over 7years and never once tried to improve it, or even submit a plan that make it better.

    Paul Ryan never made it a secret that he wanted to privatize Medicare and Social Security all of his career, he's never been concerned with the working middle class or elderly that would be hurt by his ideas, his only concern was limiting coverage, giving tax breaks to the 1% of the wealthiest Americans at the expense of the rest of the country that needs it.

    It should be noted that as needy child Paul Ryan took advantage of every opportunity to use benefits from Social Security to make his own life livable, and go to educate himself, but it was good for him, but not anyone else.

  44. Excellent Op-Ed. It leads to the question, 'why is Trump's base so adamantly against dealing in reality?'

    It's less than four months into the administration of the guy they hired, and he's fired one FBI director, is under criminal investigation, gave classified information to a sworn enemy of ours (and in the process, endangering the lives of our spies and spies of our allies), can't figure out how to properly staff jobs within his administration, is doing everything he can to screw his base's ability to get health care insurance, and is in the process of destroying relationships with every ally we have. On top of all of this, he is lurching forward to remove environmental protections across the board, sell off national parkland, and prevent workers from having health and safety on the job, and is crass, crude, and disrespectful to citizens and nations of the world, women, and his own staff. Of course, I'm missing a number of other mishaps this guy has caused; who can keep track of this mess?

    And yet, the vast, vast majority of Trump's base absolutely adore him. Let's repeat that for clarity.... THE BASE ABSOLUTELY ADORES TRUMP!!

    Please continue investigating and reporting why the base can't get enough of this guy.....

  45. Read Brave New World.

  46. Out there in out there land all the Trumpies have gotten what they voted for. I find it difficult to have any sympathy for those that vote against their own best interest. So stop crying in your beer, suck it up and don't get sick.

  47. Trump supporters don't read the NYT.

  48. most don't read at all

  49. Let them eat cake!

  50. Well, they wanted to teach us snooty liberals with our fancy cities a lesson. Turns out the harshest lesson will be on them.

  51. Dogs eat dogs. How hilarious.

  52. I know that most people here want Medicare for all. Problem is, there's not enough doctors to service everyone. Moreover, doctor pay would have to be slashed to keep from bankrupting the country, further reducing the number of doctors and people choosing to go into medicine. Thus, rationing of care will be mandatory. Who will be rationed out of treatment. Not current Medicare recipients, since they've spent their working life paying into the system. Beyond that cohort, limited funds will be dolled out to whom? Productive, hardworking people or criminals and welfare parasites? Illegal immigrants or citizens? You get the picture.

    The simplest solution is for the government to operate small health clinics within easy reach of most people, providing routine health care for free. Serious illnesses can be covered by relatively low cost catastrophic policies, with poor people getting partial subsidies, but required to also contribute their own money. No free loaders. No avoiding insurance until you get seriously ill. For these free riders, let them appeal to private charities or relatives, or else get last in line for treatment. And cut out malpractice lawsuits, which cost the system hundreds of billions. Standardized, reasonable payments for all but intended harm could be set.

  53. Malpractice lawsuits account for 0.1% of healthcare costs, it's a red herring. And if your loved one was maimed for life I'm sure you want recourse.

    Texas capped malpractice awards many years ago and they have the highest healthcare costs in the country.

  54. This is moronic, the pattern of insurers pulling out and raising rates was well established even before the election. This was a pre existing condition (no pun intended) and it's something Team Elephant doesn't deserve blame for. This isn't to say that they're good or that their plan is a good one, just that they aren't to blame for the failure of Team Donkey's plan.

  55. Actually, I believe the GOP somehow passed a law that prevents the government from compensating (bailing out) insurance companies from ACA-related losses. This act of sabotage has led to the rise in rates.

    Rubio brags about it.

  56. Republican voters need to understand an important fact: the Republican leadership is not concerned with or motivated by the well being of the population. They are far more concerned about their notion of what is right, which is to have every activity be governed by unregulated, free market principles and no taxes. If one were to ask them where our society is headed and what our social priorities should be, they will not be able to answer directly, nor will they be able to provide a vision. Because in their heads, the answer is "wherever unregulated free market principles and a tax-free economy takes us". This is why their answer to every problem is to cut taxes and loosen the rules.

  57. Is healthcare a right or a privilege? This is the question that should be presented to everyone running for public office.

  58. Is healthcare a right or a privilege the scope of the rationale for society assuring all receive it? Is healthcare a social good or just a personal good? That is more to the point. We do many things because not doing them has bad results for everyone. Having 18% of the GDP being devoted to healthcare means spending twice a much of our GDP on healthcare than any of the nations with single payer systems. That money is not creating more wealth, it's just being used up. Having a healthy population means a population which can contribute more to the common good, can be more productive, can be less dependent upon society to meet their material needs, can adapt more easily to challenges and changes than can people in less than optimal health.

  59. Too bad.

  60. Trumpcare Is Already Hurting Trump Country, and they love him more than ever! Especially if it's hurting the blacks and browns.

  61. No, they won't blame it on Trump. As always with bad news, they will blame it on Obama and say it's evidence of their claim that Obamacare is "imploding." As far as I'm concerned, we don't need no stinkin' insurance companies; single payer and health care for all.

    To afford that, let's start with negotiated pharmaceutical prices. The rest of the world does it, and we're subsidizing them! We need "most favors nation" status with our own drug companies.

    And we need more medical schools. A generation ago, the AMA looked at the mushrooming number of law schools and the resulting glut of lawyers and decided not to expand. You can have too many lawyers; can't have too many doctors. And anybody qualified should be able to go without drowning in loans.

    [While I'm dreaming, might as well throw in the German requirement that intern-level docs spend a year taking house calls, so they learn about the interaction between environment/sociology and medical needs.]

  62. This is the key thing most people miss in the health care debate. The 24 million aren't going to go without health care. They're going to wait till they get REALLY sick and then they'll end up in emergency rooms and run up gigantic hospital bills that they'll never be able to pay back. So.... think about it, who is going to pay for their health care? The cost will be passed on to everybody with insurance including employer-based policies.

    The GOP is gift wrapping a trillion-dollar present for their billionaires, and everybody with health insurance is going to be paying for it for the next 20 years.

  63. They will go bankrupt after being hounded for payment by bill collectors the ER gives those bills to.

    And they may get emergency ER treatment, but no one gives them the medication for the Rx they may may need.

  64. It sounds so very heartless to say, but the uneducated, low income groups that voted for trump are going to get exactly what they deserve.

  65. That's true. But the problem is people who didn't vote for Trump will also suffer.

  66. The Republicans want to consider health care a concern for individuals or families not society as a whole, which would justify the assertion that all should be able to receive all the health care which they can afford depending upon their circumstances. It's clear that considering healthcare needs a concern for society means assuring that all are able to receive the health care that they need, which will result in a transfer of wealth from those who can afford to pay more to those who cannot pay for what they need. That is where Republicans find their objections. Most of them think that individuals are responsible for their healthcare needs, not society, but the A.C.A. has enabled so many to enjoy healthcare which they did not enjoy previously that these Republicans will have to support social supports for healthcare whether they like it or not.

  67. Some will put the blame in the right place, Trump Inc. and themselves for voting for him, but many will put they blame on Obama, "liberals", 'whimps' in congress etc. - why wouldn't they? They're used to doing that.

  68. Note to Trump supporters: This is the sort of thing that happens when a manifestly unfit man is elected president. Life really is too short to learn all your lessons the hard way.

  69. I would like to welcome all of the new commenters who appeared yesterday to defend the policies of Mr. Trump and the Republicans. I hope to learn something from your points of view.

    I hope you also learn something from the articles, opinion pieces, and other comments you read on the NY Times.

  70. If you read various mainstream publications you will be quickly disabused of your hopeful idealism regarding "newcomers" here from the Republiverse.

    They are nearly entirely a goon squad--organized by paid operatives and trained to spend a certain amount of time each day posting short, content-free expressions of hostility and/or lenghty exegeses based on the catechism of fictions perpetrated by the propagandameisters in the pay of the anonymized billionaires for whom the GOP rank and file are their useful idiots.

    This is far less visible on the NYT because comments are moderated prior to being posted. Most publications rely on software to winnow out the most obscene postings, and reporting by readers to get others.
    But the goal of this project by the Republican Ministry of Propaganda is not to engage in debate with you. It's to drown out not just liberal voices but any sort of discussion.

    You can see it in full flower on non-pre-moderated comment threads such as those of the Washington Post. Go there and you'll see comments by right wing non-readers of the publication.
    And yes, it's easy to spot the non-readers. For one thing, they frequently voice their total contempt for the publication. For another, they're often so ungrammatical and reason-free that the writer doesn't fit the literate demographic of publications like the NYT.
    This is called "astroturfing"--organized propaganda operations posing as grassroots efforts by "concerned citizens."
    Don't be fooled.

  71. The more the merrier. The commentariat benefits from diverse viewpoints.
    Here's another- Trump may go into a meeting, say, in Saudi Arabia, in a tent perhaps, tell his security peeps that he's decided to bolt the country, and would they please walk away...I'm not sayin , I'm just askin, wouldn't this be a great move? He can send over a speech railing against his detractors and sadly portraying his former country as having missed out on his destiny to make America so great again that it would have made their collective heads spin...As I awake from this dream, I imagine Trump hearing this and thinking....I'll do it !!!

  72. The insurance companies don't want to serve unless : 1) be selective in who is insured; 2) be able to false code to maximize profits (United Health Care); 3) do away with limits on gross profit margins.

    We should oblige them with a public option.

  73. Trump is a habitual liar. Why should any reasonable person believe what he said prior to the election?

    "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
    Matthew 7:16 (KJV)

  74. Trump mirrors his base, warts and all... plays to their fears and misconceptions... loves the poorly educated.

    it's flattering and it's a con.

  75. Love the artwork. Apropos of not just the GOP reworking of the ACA, but the state of healthcare in this country.

  76. The unthinkable is apparently the unsayable. The political forces behind the relentless denial, constriction, and propaganda against Obamacare is actually a form of institutionalized genocide. "Let them eat cake" and die from diabetes, etc. This is intentional and malice aforethought. Historically, was this was the attitude of the robber barons in the early Industrial Age. Old ways of evil like the walking dead. This attitude formed the basis of the rise of unions to protect the common man. Since Reagan, unions have been weakened. Big money has compromised both parties (some more than others) to dislocate them from their constituents.

    Let's be clear. This IS life or death for the masses. The people must speak. We already know what the GOP wants to do. Let's see if the Dems can get a clue. Trump country will obviously have to be saved from themselves and from destroying the rest of us. For the 1% it's extra cash, for the rest of us it's getting to live to see your grandkids.

  77. Let's go over the tax break for the wealthy part of Obamacare one more time.

    Wealthy investors are now taxed 3.8% on dividends, capital gains, rental income after reduction for their management/broker expenses.

    Wealthy investors are able to enroll in Medicare at age 65 and pay a modest monthly Medicare premium ($500 monthly) and receive virtually all of their doctor/hospital care free (paid by Medicare) while going to the same doctors/hospitals that they have been going to for years and years.

    The Wealthy investor has NOT BEEN CONTRIBUTING to Medicare out of each and every one of their paychecks for the last 40+ years like you have been doing. And you working folks will still be paying monthly premiums to Medicare once you are 65 and covered.

    Do you really think this is fair? A good idea? That is the "tax cut" for those making more than $450k per year on their investments that articles, anchors, etc. are referring to when they talk about repealing Obamacare.

  78. If Americans truly want a healthcare system that provides coverage for all without fear of pointless faceless middle men, incomprehensible deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance, bankruptcy, rising drug costs, shifting provider/network plans, the legal corruption of politicians and physicians by the medical-industrial complex, unending medication advertising on all forms of media, and the political/social turmoil surrounding this issue, than simply look at every other industrialized/civilized country, where none of this exists (except for drug advertising in New Zealand) and where access is universal, costs are much lower, and outcomes are better, nearly across the board. Our healthcare system is completely broken, but with so many hands in the till reaping rewards, it will take a revolution to free us from this madness. Even in 2016, the Censorship Project listed as number 2 non-reported issue the fraudulent medical science perpetrated by drug manufactures to get non-essential expensive medications on the market.

  79. I'm kind of wishful thinking that Trump and his revolting cortege ....just makes
    the 10th stop on his Moscow....and just stays there for the rest of
    his life.

  80. I'm not under Obamacare, though I would be if I were still under 65, as I was self-employed.

    But even under Medicare, we're subject to Part D, which goes through insurance. And every Part D can decide which medications, or not, it will cover.

    I'll be having cataract surgery next month. I don't take any regular medications as a rule, but one eye antibiotic I've been Rx'd is not covered by my (very expensive) 5-star plan. Cost? $175, and that's with with the CostCo pharmacy discount.

    You think that's bad? I just learned I'll need 4 of these tiny bottles! $700!

    We live in a country where if you need healthcare or medicine, you are at the PREY of insurance companies.

    But in other countries, sane countries, citizens get good healthcare without being preyed upon.

    The Pharmacist assured me the antibiotic I'll be taking is the best on the market. And honestly my eyes are very important to me. But as I take my medication, I'll be doing it, knowing that many other Americans cannot afford these tiny bottles and in other countries you can likely get them for very little cost, as drugs costs there are both subsidized and regulated.

    It is an abomination to live in a country where death is the best healthcare alternative if you're poor.

  81. Why is healthcare taking the GOP so long? Simple. Republicans continue to struggle with the mathematically impossible task of providing gigantic tax cuts for the rich, while hiding the devastating impact of those cuts from the rest of the country. The so-called party of business, once again demonstrates that it couldn't manage its way out of a paper bag.

  82. Hopefully Jon Ossof will win the GA 6th, because everyone I know who lives in that district alone and is their 50's and 60's is on Obamacare. Or they used it as a stepping stone to Medicare. Tom Price's old District has 3 hospitals in it. 2 are level 2 and above trauma ER's. One has one of the largest Maternity and women's health centers in the country.

    What so many folks I have talked to is you get laid off by the Fortune 500 companies when you turn 50-55. Conviently right before you have your 30 years for a pension. Sure they offer a one year consulting gig, but it doesn't come with health insurance. I have had people who worked for major companies in this district tutoring, answering ads for filing help. They are all members of the gig economy using Obamacare. They have all told me they are voting for Jon Ossoff.

  83. Will hardship break the spell?

  84. Thank you, thank you, thank you Barack Hussein Obama. And, God bless you for what you accomplished, against all odds, for ALL Americans.

  85. Trump country doesn't care. They believe he is sticking it to the liberals and elites. That's all that matters to them.

  86. and they love it

  87. So,"big insurance companies to stop selling policies or significantly raise premiums." Bad. Very bad. We can count on the GOP megaphone to bash the public like Kim Jong-un blares his propaganda into every North Korean nook and cranny that Obamacare is collapsing because of Obama's alleged failure.

    The ACA is fixable, but not in a GOP-dominated government, because the GOP doesn't fix things; it blows them up and leaves ordinary Americans to mop up the mess.

  88. Repulsive voters have short memories, just like our pretend president. If the repulsives don't foist the blame on Obama, like they have done with everything else, the electorate will not have received the word that their "comrade in chief" has done them a dirty. They don't read so they won't believe this.

  89. Its very unfortunate, but a lot of folks, those of supported tRump and those who did not, are going to suffer when the GOP passes their "health care plan." But those same unfortunate folks have to realize how they were hood winked and conned.... and only then, when the pain and suffering, death and illness, has sunk in, will the tsunami start... with each stumble, with each lie, with each investigation, the water is going out, and it will come back in 2018...

  90. The only sensible thing to do - even for Republicans - is to replace the ACA with "Medicare For All". As distasteful as Republicans might find this, it would give theme a huge win with many voters. But I doubt they can overcome their partisanship to see it.

  91. Those who will be hurt most by this administration? Middle class and down who voted for him and those that didn't vote at all. Oh yea, and everyone else, the environment, civil liberties, etc...

  92. The problem is that only recently have many voters become aware of how the ACA benefits them. Also, they don't read reports by the CBO or by Standard & Poor's and therefore don't know that companies did better in 2016. They also probably don't know f the threat to cut the subsidies or not enforce the penalty. FOX news won't tell them, Limbagh won't, Hannity won't, nor will conservative networks sch as Sinclair. Let's hope they do indeed identify the real culprits behind any increases and abandoned markets: the Trump administration.

  93. Nice little hospital you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it.

    How many hospitals and clinics were on the verge of closing before ACA? And, if they close due to the AHCA, how many jobs will be lost?

    Oh, that's right, they're not manufacturing jobs.

  94. This was all predictable. In the scramble to pass the ACA in the face of determined opposition by the GOP, the insurance industry had to be granted a heavy voice in the crafting of the law. That industry, though, seduced by the prospect of millions of new clients, seriously miscalculated the effect of pre-existing conditions among those who hadn't been able even to visit a clinic, much less see a worthwhile physician with specialized knowledge and training.

    Now the insurers want out, and in my home -Central Florida - we're down to ONE insurer: Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I hope I don't need to tell anyone about the practices of that insurance company except to say that they're dismal. The rest - Aetna, Humana, Cigna, United Heatlhcare - have run for the tall timber. Gone.

    For as long as the health insurance industry and "big Pharma" have a commanding voice in the crafting of national health insurance, it will fail - absent government subsidies that the GOP can't tolerate (without equivalent tax subsidies for the wealthy).

    But GOP, be advised: a sensible national health policy is coming whether you like it or not. When "Trumpcare V.2. passed the House, do you think the Democrats singing "Hey, hey... goodbye" were just showboating? If so, you're delusional. The nation wants national health care. Its time has finally come, and all the "messaging" in the world won't change that.

  95. Trumpcare has not been passed and Obamacare is imploding not because of the threat of Trumpcare but as Bill Clinton said it is the craziest system in the world. It was never a sustainable system and a poor business model for insurance companies and a bad deal for the tax payers and worst of all for all Americans, not only from the Trump country who paid high premiums and deductibles. The senate needs to either repeal and replace Obamacare with a better option for those previously insured or prop up Obamacare as it is doing it now and add government managed health care component so that all Americans have optimal health care.

  96. Once again, American votes act to cut their own throats. I find it hard to muster much sympathy for "Trump voters" who acted on their racial, ethnic, religious biases rather than thinking through the issues.