Noisy Knees? Arthritis May Be in Your Future

"People included in the new study could have a spur-riddled X-ray but little or no knee pain or a badly aching knee with a clear X-ray, but not both." Ha ha -- a fine logical puzzle: On the basis of that sentence, describe the characteristics of people excluded from the study. Next:
"The instance was especially large among people whose knees had shown X-ray evidence of arthritis but who had not reported much joint pain. " Was that supposed to say, "the incidence was especially high"? Next:
"The upshot is that the exact nature of the relationship between knee noises and knee health remains enigmatic, says Dr. Grace Lo..." Right: The noises COULD mean this, and they MAY mean that, but this is somehow fodder for a whole article that concludes that if you're concerned, you should see your doctor.

I'm curious whether the researchers took any account of known sources knee noise. A torn meniscus (medial or lateral) can be noisy without leading to arthritis, particularly if the tear is surgically repaired. In my case, I had surgery on a medial meniscus tear about 16 years ago. Prior to the surgery, my knee was clicking often; since the surgery I haven't had any signs of noise or arthritis. If cases like mine are eliminated from the data, how strong is the relationship between noise and progressing to arthritis?

The 'popping' in my knee was the sound of bones locking and unlocking -- thanks to a torn meniscus.

A meniscus repair operation eliminated the 'popping.'

Time will tell whether or not arthritis ensues. In the meantime, thank heaven for arthroscopic surgery.

Arthritis may always be in your future, especially if our heart is beating and ou are breathing. Otherwise, your likely dead and safe.

What about young people? My sister's knees were a running joke in the family when we were kids, and the noise never abated.

She has arthritic knees, but they're carrying a heavy load these days so who knows what caused it.

I'm 50-ish, a healthy weight, and I exercise reasonably regularly. My knees occasionally click. I wouldn't call it creaking, exactly. No pain, except once I did have some knee pain and I brought it up with a physical therapist I was seeing for something else, and it turned out to be a tilted patella due to my IT band needing more stretching. Exercises took care of that. My knees have had this occasional clicking ever since I can remember, and I don't have arthritis. FYI, turmeric (yes, the spice) is also good for anything inflammation related.

if there is no medical consensus on what crepitus is, what causes the sound, then how can doctors purport to say anything about its relationship to disease?

That "noisy" knees may OR, may not indicate a future diagnosis of arthritis does not meaningfully contribute to our fund of existing knowledge.
This article is a perfect example of legitimate uncertainty masquerading as science "news" reporting (in the NYT no less) -- in other words "so what?"

A great big "DUH" to the Times for this report highlighting one (obvious) observation of the "Osteparthitis Initiative" OAI study. The purpose of the research study is not --as written in this NYT article -- "to focus on the long-term creakiness of he knees of almost 3,500 participants" The "overall aim of the OAI is to develop a public domain research resource to facilitate the scientific evaluation of biomarkers for osteoarthritis as potential surrogate endpoints for disease onset and progression." (See: https://oai.epi-ucsf.org/datarelease/StudyOverview.asp ). As a reader interested in medical topics and medical research, an article focused on the study itself and why it is important would have been a more appropriate start!

People that have early on-set degenerative arthritis should be tested for a iron-loading genetic disease called hemochromatosis. Especially if you are have Northern European ancestry. This is a common sign, especially in younger men that have this type of arthritis. Iron gets into your joints and causes pain. This is the most common genetic disease in the world practically and the majority of doctors will never mention this to you. Go to the Iron-Institute website and check it out. Too much iron is terrible for your heart, liver, joints, brain, etc. etc. I am a carrier, and my husband is too. Both Irish. Get your iron panels checked if you have joint pain... it may save your life.

Supports!
Try open-patella knee support. Futura is minimal and fits under pants. Another brand (thick, black, padded: Ace?) lays flat open with a patella hole and closes with Velcro straps so one size fits all. Both relieve my pain. After a couple of days use pain decreases and support not strictly needed. A couple of double saw bucks buys a lot of drug-free pain relief.

You can say my knees aren't what they used to be , but I am still extremely active with a 4 year old boy and a job that requires plenty of leg exertion for a 47 year old man. But my knees have been cracking since I was 3 every time I crouch down. I remember my grandma commenting when I was little all the time. Going to play some frisbee golf now so don't worry all you noisy kneed people out there , things will probably be ok.

Decrease health care costs and just go see a physical therapist, for that's where the physician will, or should, send you anyway.

Stem cell injections ( your own stem cells) may help regrow cartilage if you have osteoarthritis.

Interesting. My joints were creaking & popping even as a teenager. It was embarrassing. As a freshman in college, my roommate complained -- the noise even disturbed her sleep.
Joint pain began in my 40s. Hips, knees & one elbow. Regular exercise, avoiding prolonged periods of inactivity, and taking chondroitin with glucosamine, have all helped me into my mid-60s. I do take time-release 8hr acetaminophen to sleep comfortably, but most days don't require any anti-inflammatory meds.

My left knee began popping in my late 20s, usually when I was pivoting from listening to a student's comment to jotting onto the blackboard what he said. I put it down at the time to being an infrequent but proficient downhill skier.

Fast forward 45 years, and my left knee now pops several times a week, sans pivoting. No pain, but I'm waiting for the day . . . .

The big question is: what do you do with this information? How is it useful?

Painful joints have become a consuming interest of mine since I developed severe osteoarthritis in my right knee about 10 years ago at age 70. I find it amusing that this study on popping, clicking, creaky knees has gotten widespread coverage and finally made it to the New York Times. It makes for an interesting story, but the report doesn't provide definitive proof that there is a strong correlation between noisy knees and future development of OA. Even so, I guess it doesn't hurt to motivate people to lose some weight and get some exercise. I would also give serious consideration to using the joint supplements that have made my knees pain free for the last 7 or 8 years. If you have joint pain and weight-loss and exercise aren't giving you full relief, I suggest you try a combination of fish oil, krill oil, rosehips, collagen 2, and pine bark extract. I still hear noises but so far no return of the pain.

I'll be 55 soon. My moving or walking body has turned increasingly into a musical instrument--and not in a pleasing, million-records-selling way!

I am 77 and in good health, but my knees were starting to creak and get weaker, probably from all that sitting behind the computer reading the Times. Anyway, I started taking glucosamine, walking everywhere (I live downtown, thank god), exercising on my treadmill and exercise bike, and changing my diet. My knees don't creak anymore, and my incipient diabetes has improved.

I'm always the noisiest person in a quiet museum and I am not talking. As I move from frame to frame, sculpture to sculpture ,I have continuous little crackling noises from my knees. Oh well, I'm in my 60's and don't think it is a big issue. My knees sometimes hurt but not at the intensity of my hands and feet which have serious arthritis pain. Losing weight will do nothing for hand arthritis but it does help foot pain. I exercise daily and take aspirin. Every woman in my family acquired arthritis in her 30's. As far as I know the doctor can't do much . He certainly can't treat noise ! I trust my orthopedist who did excellent carpal tunnel surgery for me . He says there is not a lot that can be done for osteoarthritis except palliative measures.

Been having symptoms for a couple of years, but until I stopped swimming there was never any pain. Now after no time in the pool for several months I get an occasional stab which makes me literally pause. If I'm still able to walk upright, it makes little difference, I'll just walk a bit less energetically.

When I get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom my knees snap, crackle and pop. I'm surprised that the NYPD's gunshot detection system isn't activated.

So let me get this straight. Noisy knees "merit an appointment with your physician" because...WHY? So that they can tell you, yeah you might get arthritis, but there's nothing we can do about it if you do???

I got into a habit of doing strength training, anaerobically and aerobically which seems to help. I also like to cross train, change exercise routines because I can get into a comfort level, the exercise becomes less advantageous, less of a challenge.
What works for me is working what seems to be a weak area of my body which I did by a fluke on the Me-Mover, my hips which I mentioned in a previous post, and it was all because of cross training.
My legs cannot take the pounding of running, so, again I found an alternative by cross training with a stepping scooter propelled with low impact using my running muscles.
Cross training will help with stubborn muscles that more or less become almost dormant, such as the core when only using a bicycle. Search for other methods to work your body, most importantly work your body at any age, we are more adaptable than we realize, even for us elderly.

I agree with Tom from Rochester. Balancing and strengthening muscles starting at the core, hip flexors, adductor, extenders on down to the upper leg muscles helped me. Took me a year get rid of knee pain and crepitis. It seems to be associated with balancing femur and knee cap alignment via the muscles.

I agree with Tom in Rochester. Strengthening to achieve muscle balance starting with the core, the hip flexors, adductors, extensor and on down to the upper leg muscles helped me. Got rid of the knee pain and crepitis in less than a year. It seems to be all about femur and knee cap alignment via the muscles for these two factors.

Really? If I am older and over weight there is an increased risk of knee arthritis? If my knees make noise it could mean I may eventually have arthritis but not necessarily so? This is amazing. One thing , though, if you are going to write an article about medical/health research, can you at least use correct terminology? Crepitus is a certain type of sound- not all sounds emanating from joints are crepitus

So noisy knees might mean arthritis, or might not. Wow. That's helpful.

Okay, another piece of useless information from the New York Times Health section. If your knees make noise it could indicate that you will get arthritis or not. If you have pain in your knees then it could be bad or mean nothing at all. Creaky knees could indicate the onset of something serious or just that you are getting older. The advice is to see the doctor, but he or she will not be able to help you other than to get more exercise (a health advice that you will always get anyway).
These kind of studies and this kind of reporting them is why we hard core scientists look with suspicion at all these soft core studies. The samples are taken sloppy and the statistics are handled in a non-scientific way. It's no wonder that what is deemed detrimental for your health today could be just fine tomorrow.
Btw, scientific publications are usually peer reviewed. It wouldn't hurt if the reports in the New York Times would also be reviewed in a similar fashion before being presented to millions of readers.

I'm 24 and a healthy weight and my knees have creaked and popped for as long as I can remember. I've always thought everyone's knees do that.

We ran as kids, we run as adults, but how many times do our legs, feet pound the ground, years of pounding, something has to give, like joints and cartilage. I never heard noises, but I have felt pain in my joints, my hip, I should at 78 years old.
I've been active most of my life, on bicycles, weight training, so I expect some pain, I accepted the pain, part of being active. Walking for a distance was finite, I had to stop, give my hip time to recover.
No pain riding my bicycle, just walking. I started cross training with a new scooter called a Me-Mover which uses more legs to propel, felt it in my glutes, felt the lactic acid build, never happened on my bicycle. My muscles were complaining propelling this scooter which told me that after years of bicycle riding, different muscles were being used.
I was adapting, at my age, in time I acclimated, no more pain on the scooter, and no more hip pain. I don't know if it was arthritis or dormant muscles, but unexpectedly I can walk long distances now.
Age is academic when doing physical training, even my sometimes painful shoulder feels better doing resistance training with dumbells, then stretching.
I like to do extended rides, fighting headwinds, HIIT routines, climbing grades, in my opinion, better than reading about studies.

To contribute with a positive case: work-out can work.

I suffered arthritis in a knee a few years ago, having had creaking knees since my 30s (now 76). It was an intensely painful experience and I saw a definite end to my tennis meetings with fellow retirees, especially since I read everywhere that this ailment can't be cured.

But I was well taken care of (to a low cost by, the Swedish health care system) and attended an "arthritis school" where we learned everything worth knowing about the disease. Then we were instructed in the gym to the right kind of exercises, and pushed to work out frequently under expert supervision.

When my therapist told me I could very well be playing tennis again I thought she was joking. And I was confirmed in that by a rather slow progress in the beginning.

Now a couple of years later I play tennis three times a week, and work out in between. The knees give me less pain and are stronger than in a long. long time.

So, if you are of the same permutation as me: exercise and keep up the hope!

Yoga, salubrious climes and a mediterranean diet leads to aging like the most interesting person in the world!

It's worth remembering that "Ask your doctor" is the gateway to expensive diagnostics and treatment.

Ask your doctor if your knees are at risk because you are overweight? How about your hips and maybe your back? I think we already know the answer to that.

Where most of us need help is in managing the BMI, where doctors are largely unhelpful. But the same things that are good for your knees and your gut are also good for your BMI, diet and exercise.

Strengthening your quads is probably the best treatment for strengthening and stabilizing knee joints. The easiest way is to walk up a steep but smooth pavement backward (I have learned from experience that falling is bad for your knees).

Keep moving.

I ran a lot and my knees were sore. I went to an orthopedist who told me I had problems and that I should take up a different sport. Instead I strengthened my leg muscles supporting my knee and continued to run. That was 31 years ago. I've been running 5-6 days a week since with (knock wood) no knee problems. I'm 63 and hope to get quite a few more years out of the original equipment.

In 2002 (at age 54) I first noticed my knees popping when I walked upstairs. I spoke to my doctor and she suggested that I try glucosamine chondroitin. She also gave me a referral to a doctor who talked about injections. My doctor also told me that glucosamine wasn't a universal cure but seemed to help in about 70% of cases. Within three months the popping was gone. I decided to pass on the injections.

I have kept up the regimen of daily capsules ever since (I am soon going to be 69) and have had no problems. I also took up active cycling. I don't know if that also helped to condition the knee joints. I weigh 240 lbs. Normal weight for my age and height would be closer to 215 lbs. I'm retired and remain active in the remodeling of a large house and yard maintenance. I have no problem climbing ladders. I would say that I average about five to six hours a day in my carpentry, painting, and yard work. I also enjoy swimming at the local pool anywhere from half a mile to a mile four times a week.

My experience is anecdotal. I can't offer any advice other than the fact that I am doing okay. I have talked to other people who have told me that glucosamine did not cure their joint problem. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

'evaluation by a Doctor' assumes the Doctor is knowledgeable regarding joint pain, joint anatomy and aging. Proper evaluation would be a specialist like an Orthopedic Surgeon. The likelihood of surgical intervention increases with that encounter. Popping and cracking without pain is not a problem. Keep or start an exercise program with a trained fitness professional and keep moving those noisy joints in a healthy way. Swimming, recumbent bikes, leg strengthening machines to stabilize knees and hip joints are important preventive therapies. Joint replacement surgeries come with mixed results. If it ain't broke don't fix it, is good advice.

So if there's no real treatment for arthritis, why spend the money to see a doctor? I know from experience that all they'll do is order expensive imaging tests and try to convince you to undergo an arthroscopy.

Better to just start strength training and do what you can to take off extra pounds. I also recommend a book called "Treat Your Own Knees."

"The instance was especially large among people whose knees had shown X-ray evidence of arthritis but who had not reported much joint pain. In that group, crepitus was a clanging alarm"

So people who were told their knee X-rays were abnormal were then much more likely to report crepitus, and the assumption is that noise was a harbinger? Everything we know about self reported symptoms would indicate otherwise.