It is common moral decency to have called the police. Even babysitters at age 14 know better. All of these college men should be brought up on manslaughter charges.
7
> Not long ago, the story might have ended there,
Not certain where that conclusion came from.
Long time ago when I was in university (and in a fraternity), it was really big trouble if someone died as a result of a fraternity initiation rituals. (No one ever died where I was, btw) If nothing else, there would be lawsuits from the family. And, if I remember correctly, the police would be investigating as well.
Okay, maybe the police back then were a little less likely to lay charges. But that probably is true of a lot of things.
But 'boys will be boys'?? No. The large national fraternities actively discouraged such dangerous practices.
I can't imagine things being much different today, aside from more vigorous education on what ought to and shouldn't happen during initiation rituals.
Not certain where that conclusion came from.
Long time ago when I was in university (and in a fraternity), it was really big trouble if someone died as a result of a fraternity initiation rituals. (No one ever died where I was, btw) If nothing else, there would be lawsuits from the family. And, if I remember correctly, the police would be investigating as well.
Okay, maybe the police back then were a little less likely to lay charges. But that probably is true of a lot of things.
But 'boys will be boys'?? No. The large national fraternities actively discouraged such dangerous practices.
I can't imagine things being much different today, aside from more vigorous education on what ought to and shouldn't happen during initiation rituals.
3
The comments responding to this horrific phenomena are following a line of thinking about an entitled type of macho men - jocks who morph into Trump-esque types. Penn State University shouldn't be faulted for a cowboy ethics that has permeated the All American man. This Everyman has to constantly be impassive, emotionless aggressive. Of course this ingenuity built a great nation. But wasn't expansion always about assaulting others? Wasn't progress accomplished by bullying others? Havent many gay men women wanting to actualize actually taken on the worst qualities of the traditional models? These phenomena others were explored years back in an insightful play called Penn State Pentagram authored by a Larry Myers. Maybe a part 2 should happen to accompany the Sandusky plotline of that work?
1
My heart goes out to the family. And the purpose of keeping fraternities on campus is...? Penn State (and other campuses that dismiss the need for patroling Greek Life on Campus) should be fined for every report of hazing registered. Period. Here's an idea: Students should not be allowed to pledge until age 21 (legal drinking age is still 21 right?). No one is above the law -even college campuses. Death by Hazing should automatically close the fraternity/sorority. In this day/age of social media and uber documentation, students should be urged to document misdemeanors, felonies and, harrassment and bullying behavior. Universities know better.
4
About 18 months ago, our freshman daughter spun out terribly at Penn State, in part because of tailgating, drinking, and Greek life. Separately, my husband and I called the head of Greek life at PSU, suggesting that freshman not be allowed to rush for fraternities or sororities. They were much too vulnerable, and should be allowed to get their feet on the ground. This practice, we pointed out, would protect PSU's youngest citizens, and had been implemented at several other major universities. We were each summarily dismissed, and our suggestion was rebuffed. And here we are, a year and a half later, with a freshman football player dead at the hands of fraternity hazing. I cannot begin to express my sorrow over the death of Timothy Piazza and my fury at the administration of Penn State. Sadly, our daughter wants to stay, despite her recent rejection of all things Greek. If I had my way, that school would never see another dime of our money.
12
Our sons graduated from Sleepy Hollow high school in Tarrytown, N.Y. in the 1980's. At that time, the school included Latinos and African Americans as well as whites in a town where such groups had long existed. Interestingly, none of their fellow graduates became members of fraterinities and sororities which then banned minorities from pledging them. They were not interesting in discriminating vs. their friends from high school.
2
Social fraternities at universities are known for making their members drunks and rapists. That is a known fact. Binghamton University in New York had a lot of social fraternities that were comprised of drunkards and had members who were accused of rape. I remember this vividly when I attended Binghamton in the 90s. And joining a fraternity does not help the fraternity pledge's grade point average. Students pledging fraternities fail classes right and left. Frat houses try to prevent a total 0.0 GPA by having a test bank of old tests. Most of these test banks violate the universities honor code since some lazy professors use the same tests from semester to semester. There is absolutely no positive reason for the existence of a fraternity. And most pledges try to join because the only way they believe they can have friends is by buying them with their future fraternity dues. And just imagine a fraternity pledge in a bedroom with a female goat and his perspective fraternity brothers waiting for some action to happen. That in itself is a horror story.
7
A sad case, however having been a student at Penn State many moons go, I never could see the attraction to fraternities. Perhaps there needs to be an adult house parent(s) supervising the members, just like resident assistants in the dorms. Time after time it's proven that young people lack the maturity to act appropriately. Plus they were probably wasted out of their minds.
4
Our colleges should not be allowed to be schools of drunks
6
I feel for the parents - how devastating. My dad was in a frat in the 1950s and still bears a big scar from a homemade "tattoo" all the members received. He is equally proud and embarrassed by it. When you get a large group of young people together and introduce drugs/alcohol with no supervision, gee whiz. Recipe for disaster.
A 1951 movie called "Take Care of My Little Girl" with Jeanne Crain showed the ugliness of the Greek system, both fraternities and sororities...ending with the near-suicide of a sorority girl. Stanford banned sororities after a young woman took a dive off their famous tower, yet frats were allowed to stay. Go figure.
A 1951 movie called "Take Care of My Little Girl" with Jeanne Crain showed the ugliness of the Greek system, both fraternities and sororities...ending with the near-suicide of a sorority girl. Stanford banned sororities after a young woman took a dive off their famous tower, yet frats were allowed to stay. Go figure.
4
Stanford has allowed Sororities back on campus for some time now.
3
The benefits of brotherhood are significant, but hazing and philanthropy are not. You are not being a friend when you force someone to drink. You are not a philanthropist when you have a drinking party and send the proceeds to a cause. What was the real purpose? Not philanthropy. It was getting drunk. If you want to help an organization, donate your young energy and time, not the money you make from a party. i agree that the drinking age should be lowered to 18, but to drink responsibly. Any fraternity who hazes in any way should be closed.
1
TYPICAL PENN STATE! This is nothing more than the caveman antics that the college is known for. FYI, I have been to many Penn State football weekends and it never ceases to amaze me how people act from "adults" down to the students. This is an absolute disgrace, this young man was clearly hurt and is desperate need of help, yet nothing was done of it, nothing until it was too late. Someone has to answer, the frat boys, the University. But I can see what will happen her, the alumni will bring out the ghost of Joe Pa, wrap themselves up in statements like "we hurt just as must as the parents" and then it is business as usual. Throw the book at those frat boys; the fraternity and the University, but do not just throw it , throw it hard.
3
Firstly, I'm very sorry for the loss of the Piazza family. Just horrible. Hazing is idiotic. I was in a fraternity. It seems like a lot of these comments are based off people's viewing of "Revenge of the Nerds," and "Animal House." However, I'm not really defending the Greek system. I know some do a lot of good in the community. Mine didn't really do much. It was a social thing. There weren't inherently cruel people that I knew, anymore than students outside the system. And I laugh at another comment, that "We think we're better." Believe me, no one in my frat thought we were better - we were kind of looked down on. And no, we weren't all Republicans. Just goes to show you: no one is immune from stereotyping. Not even enlightened, sanctimonious NY Times readers.
4
Parents of college students should raise their awareness of how national fraternities will manipulate systems and members to avoid financial responsibility and deflect it onto, for example, the parents' homeowners' insurance. They might think twice about allowing or encouraging their sons to join. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/03/the-dark-power-of-f...
3
I bet looking at statistics of college age 81-22 yo individuals at college campus hospital emergency wards vs urban and sub-urban ones without a college campus will result with higher number and % of alcohol poisoning cases in wards near college campus. That in itself may highlight the alcohol problem and the collateral damage that occurs on college campuses. It may also squelch those that consistently deny the fact that alcohol on or around college campus is a problem. In fact, lets extrapolate, as the issue of sexual harassment and drug use also is a concern. I bet there too we can find evidence within the statistics of hospital cases. Yes, I do believe Colleges have a responsibility and obligation and must be held accountable - it's their backyard but its our tuition dollars and tax payer that fund it.
1
I wonder at the ignorance and moral turpitude of these young people, who are old enough and "smart" enough to be in college. This is a reflection of their upbringing, in their parent's home and in the schools. If young people are this immature and uneducated about the dangers of alcohol and hazing (and the possibilities of a criminal record or worse), then supervisors should be present in the house at all times, house parents, and these supervisors should also suffer the consequences when things go wrong. Measures like these will help young people starting out in life, and prevent them from mistakes they will regret forever.
2
They're obvious old enough to go to war and kill.
1
THIS is white privilege EXPOSED, finally! Slowly, slowly, the tides are turning.
4
White privilege eh? As if African-American Fraternities have a clean record.....me thinks you need to ratchet down your inter-racist a couple of notches.
6
"Fraternities and their national umbrella groups dispute studies, which Dr. Barron cited, showing that fraternity members are disproportionately connected to binge drinking and sexual assault. They note that other organizations, like sports teams, also engage in hazing; at Florida A&M "
As if to lesson their guilt they use the above statement?
Sad - white male America needs to grow up and take responsibility for their actions!
This behavior & mindset carries over to the adult workplace & marriage.
The way their fallen fraternity brother was treated is nothing less then murder and subject to prison time.
Bet their parent will use all their money to get their little baby boys out of trouble rich & white - if the fraternity was black or asian, they'd be in jail awaiting trial.
As if to lesson their guilt they use the above statement?
Sad - white male America needs to grow up and take responsibility for their actions!
This behavior & mindset carries over to the adult workplace & marriage.
The way their fallen fraternity brother was treated is nothing less then murder and subject to prison time.
Bet their parent will use all their money to get their little baby boys out of trouble rich & white - if the fraternity was black or asian, they'd be in jail awaiting trial.
2
My suggestion is that the family should sue Beta Theta Pi as a national organization and then argue that as a fraternal organization it is but a veil for those who contribute to it and direct it. Once you find some 45 year old lawyer in Duluth having to sell their house due to events like this in Pennsylvania....it will stop quick'
4
The whole frat boy, hazing thing seems so creepy to me. Some times it seems like a justified place for those seeking absurd power to wield it. And those seeking approval to get smushed. Yuck. Do away with the whole thing.
4
Women have stopped acting out all sorts of self-destructive and dangerous gender expectations that had bound them for centuries. It's time young (and old) males do the same. They're too often a menace to themselves and others, especially in packs. A good men's movement would insist on hard introspective examination and defiance of wretched gender stereotypes - especially those that require a relish of dominance and cruelty.
Police abuse, hazing abuse, the predominance of males in alt-right racism and xenophobia, all of it - what do we do to our boys, and why don't we better promote awareness of and resistance to the mass conditioning that still lionizes physical suffering and violence as a test of manhood?
Police abuse, hazing abuse, the predominance of males in alt-right racism and xenophobia, all of it - what do we do to our boys, and why don't we better promote awareness of and resistance to the mass conditioning that still lionizes physical suffering and violence as a test of manhood?
6
Bit of a sexists comment if you ask me......women's "groups" are well know for their own bully tactics when it comes to dress and the female form and specific behavior....which is probably why conditions such as anorexia and bulimia are far more prevalent with young women than young men. Women are quite well represented at Trump rallies and alt-right gatherings and it the interests of gender equality...I think women do just fine in the area of, as you say, "dominance and cruelty"...
2
I tell my 20 and 17 yo sons about tragedy when I was in college. A fraternity brother's close friend died in a car accident, he was the driver, they had been drinking. I ask my sons, how would you feel if you were responsible for a friend's death, had to live with that the rest of your life?
I talk about unwanted pregnancy in college, about abortion, about how difficult this was for both parties, both good people who lived this heart breaking outcome.
I talk about stupid things that happen when men and women drink too much...
I hold nothing back. I prefer that my boys hear things from me then hopefully make safe, sound choices for themselves. I let my boys drink at home. If they want to drink enough to get sick, ok, do it at home.
My boys tell me their friends do not talk to their parents as they talk to me. This mutual trust helps me help my sons sort through life choices, learn that each choice has consequences.
So far, so good... I believe that if more parents choose to be open, talk candidly to their young adults, tragedies could be avoided...
I talk about unwanted pregnancy in college, about abortion, about how difficult this was for both parties, both good people who lived this heart breaking outcome.
I talk about stupid things that happen when men and women drink too much...
I hold nothing back. I prefer that my boys hear things from me then hopefully make safe, sound choices for themselves. I let my boys drink at home. If they want to drink enough to get sick, ok, do it at home.
My boys tell me their friends do not talk to their parents as they talk to me. This mutual trust helps me help my sons sort through life choices, learn that each choice has consequences.
So far, so good... I believe that if more parents choose to be open, talk candidly to their young adults, tragedies could be avoided...
14
"...deaths that might once have been labeled regrettable accidents have resulted in criminal charges against students." Let's hope that ALL the 'regrettable accidents' involving fatalities start being prosecuted: especially the ones involving misdemeanors as captial offenses. Life is precious.
2
So the national fraternity organizations are defending themselves with the argument that sports teams are also responsible for hazing incidents? And your point is??? But it does make me wonder what these kids learn at home about responsible and humane behavior. Really.
I have visited over a dozen colleges and universities with my high school-age son. At each one, a parent on the campus tour invariably asks about fraternities. The schools are sensitive to this and like to highlight how low the fraternity participation rate is. Some have no fraternities. Lafayette College does not allow fraternities to approach freshmen for recruitment. Susquehanna University does not allow alcohol on campus and has other restrictions, making the frats essentially social service clubs. I was never attracted to frats in my student days, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There is, and will always be, plenty of hazing in fraternities despite any laws to the contrary. I was hazed and so was my son, albeit in different fraternities but on the same campus. The difference between my experience in the late 1970's and my son's in the 2000's was the overwhelming presence of alcohol in my son's fraternity. Booze was not a part of our hazing rituals back then but nowadays pledges are expected to drink huge quantities of alcohol. And that, combined with the immaturity of the boys, quite often spells trouble.
5
I agree....the overwhelming inclusion of alcohol and extreme drinking as part of the "hazing" ritual is somewhat new....in my fraternity days...."hazing" basically referred to the fact we had to do all the house cleaning, do wake up call for everyone...set up, clean up and run security at parties (we weren't supposed to be drinking at all), memorize stupid stuff about each initiated member and go through a funny hell week where we had to where suites to class for a week and do other harmless stuff....Sure we had a big party and initiation and go our paddling done...but this extreme drinking and cruelty is something different all together.
3
The Greek system is merely the efficient cause. The enablers are the families of incoming students who don't inculcate a sense of personal responsibility and self-worth that will enable them to withstand the pressure to join these groups — and to concentrate instead on why they're there in the first place: to study, listen, discuss and learn.
6
The huge majority of the comments describe Penn State as a terrible place.
I have no personal association with Penn State as nobody in my family has graduated from there.
I only wanted to say that Penn State is a huge school and, as such, it includes some of the worst of human nature, but also some very good people.
For many years I was an engineering manager in Pittsburgh, some of the best software engineers we could hire were from Penn State.
Many other large schools in the US are constantly in the news because of the felonious activities of the football team or the fraternities. These schools also include many students that are hard working and honorable, unfortunately, their activities are not news.
I have no personal association with Penn State as nobody in my family has graduated from there.
I only wanted to say that Penn State is a huge school and, as such, it includes some of the worst of human nature, but also some very good people.
For many years I was an engineering manager in Pittsburgh, some of the best software engineers we could hire were from Penn State.
Many other large schools in the US are constantly in the news because of the felonious activities of the football team or the fraternities. These schools also include many students that are hard working and honorable, unfortunately, their activities are not news.
2
my son graduated from Penn State's Schreyers honors college in 2014. in his 4 years there he earned not only his bachelor degree, but also his MBA and is now a software engineer doing quite well for himself. through his college career and now as an adult, he does not drink. parents need to instill in their kids a sense of values and confidence in themselves to not be intimidated by others or what others think of them. that's the 1st priority of parenting.
End result of moving drinking age to 21 - nothing has changed except, instead of drinking in bars with adults watching over them, 18 year olds took drinking underground. Basically, Prohibition - how did that work?
3
As with drunk-driving and date-rape, it seems that on the one hand changing attitudes have brought about more strident criminal prosecutions, but also, on the other hand, only more criminal prosecutions will likely bring about a substantial decrease in dangerous hazing incidents.
While not surprised, I am certainly dismayed by many of the reactionary comments here laying so much blame at the feet of Greek Organizations...either blind or ignorant of the fact that many university organizations, including marching bands and sports teams, have had similar incidents.
Drinking and socializing have been an intricate part of college life for decades, be it at a public university or top tier ivy league type school.....but with the current severity of punishment and enforcement for underage drinking....the fraternity is often the best place for new students to gain access to parties without as much risk of being arrested.....
The problem seems not to be the fraternity system, but the overall atmosphere of extreme drinking in the college scene...this problem isn't unique to fraternities, it's been seen at off campus housing, band functions and the bar scene......In the past it seemed beer was the primary drink of choice....has that changed because it's harder to get kegs university venues due to enforcement or can kids keep hard liquor more under wraps....
This was a tragedy of poor choices and decisions....but it is not in any way unique to the fraternity....
Drinking and socializing have been an intricate part of college life for decades, be it at a public university or top tier ivy league type school.....but with the current severity of punishment and enforcement for underage drinking....the fraternity is often the best place for new students to gain access to parties without as much risk of being arrested.....
The problem seems not to be the fraternity system, but the overall atmosphere of extreme drinking in the college scene...this problem isn't unique to fraternities, it's been seen at off campus housing, band functions and the bar scene......In the past it seemed beer was the primary drink of choice....has that changed because it's harder to get kegs university venues due to enforcement or can kids keep hard liquor more under wraps....
This was a tragedy of poor choices and decisions....but it is not in any way unique to the fraternity....
2
"Not in any way unique to the fraternity" is certainly a vast understatement. Yes, there are problems with drinking elsewhere on campus. But other clubs--literary clubs, theater clubs, religious groups, student life, service organizations--don't have nearly the problem with alcohol that fraternities do. Fraternities have the reputation for being places to party and drink; therefore, it's not surprising that they would be the sites of dangerous hazing and binge drinking. Anybody who works at a university is aware of the connection between Greek life and drinking. Something must be done to rein in the excesses and irresponsible behavior.
1
This behavior and outcome are not unique to the fraternity, but as the fraternity is under the auspices of Penn State, as well as fraternity rules, they reflect a serious, systemic problem -- which, by the way, is the last thing Penn State needs.
1
Actually, while fraternities could certainly be considered "ground zero" for drunken behavior at colleges, as they have been for decades, stop hazing.org has recorded incidents at all forms of college organizations including theatre groups, singing clubs, ski clubs, residence living units and so forth....the excesses and irresponsible behavior of which you speak is present at football games, bars, spring break, and off campus house parties....the issues revolves more around alcohol abuse as opposed to specific organizations....
1
Nothing short of heartbreaking for the family and friends of Timothy Piazza.
As a recovered Greek system sorority member, I can say that the frat boys that I observed, spent time with, tried to avoid: are part of a MOB MENTALITY. And--it can be very scary to observe (I will not go into details here but trust me; they are wanna-be men at their worst).
Yes there were some nice, brilliant guys that ended up in these frat houses but as another commenter observed, these boys/men are largely personality types that are now Trump's bedfellows in the post-college swamp. Sad, distasteful and most of all a tragic loss of a young man's life.
As a recovered Greek system sorority member, I can say that the frat boys that I observed, spent time with, tried to avoid: are part of a MOB MENTALITY. And--it can be very scary to observe (I will not go into details here but trust me; they are wanna-be men at their worst).
Yes there were some nice, brilliant guys that ended up in these frat houses but as another commenter observed, these boys/men are largely personality types that are now Trump's bedfellows in the post-college swamp. Sad, distasteful and most of all a tragic loss of a young man's life.
12
The only thing these young men (and the others that come after them) is prosecution and hard time in prison.
1
It's just locker-room talk. Boys will be boys. Where else have we heard those excuses recently?
13
It's all just locker room talk. Boys will be boys. Right, Trump voters? If the president can brag about being a rapist and buy off fraud and racketeering charges, why should entitled college kids feel any need to follow the rules?
9
I served on the faculty for three decades at an alcohol-free campus where half the students were in Greek life. This meant underage binge drinking, rape, and pranks that were criminal in nature. Chaperoned parties were drinking events where students spent most of their time in hotel rooms.
A new administration changed the behavior. Students could not pledge until their second semester. Off campus events had to have designated drivers who would not drink.
After the change, students drank responsibly at parties, often with their parents. Binge drinking declined. Over the next decade, Greeks lost membership as students turned to academic clubs and service organizations and retention rates went up. By a student’s second semester students were so involved in other activities that Greek life held little appeal and we considered ending Greek life.
The Trustees were mostly former Greeks who realized Greek alums were the major contributors to the college and reinstated pledging the first semester. Greek life is back to its former numbers and binge drinking is again a major problem with all its attendant fallout. When a rape occurs, the administration has the victim and the rapist get together and talk it out. Criminal behavior results in counseling.
Many years ago I quit my fraternity because of behavior that should have resulted in jail time. As long as universities protect such behavior it will continue to be acceptable.
A new administration changed the behavior. Students could not pledge until their second semester. Off campus events had to have designated drivers who would not drink.
After the change, students drank responsibly at parties, often with their parents. Binge drinking declined. Over the next decade, Greeks lost membership as students turned to academic clubs and service organizations and retention rates went up. By a student’s second semester students were so involved in other activities that Greek life held little appeal and we considered ending Greek life.
The Trustees were mostly former Greeks who realized Greek alums were the major contributors to the college and reinstated pledging the first semester. Greek life is back to its former numbers and binge drinking is again a major problem with all its attendant fallout. When a rape occurs, the administration has the victim and the rapist get together and talk it out. Criminal behavior results in counseling.
Many years ago I quit my fraternity because of behavior that should have resulted in jail time. As long as universities protect such behavior it will continue to be acceptable.
9
Without the partying and the sex what else is there to do in college? Sports? Ugh.
The young men who waited: they have brought themselves into the place they feared most. Their fear overcame their human desire to care for a wounded person. Their despair must be endless, unless they are tempted to turn to outrage and self-exculpation.
2
It even happens before college. The AP published a piece yesterday about hazing that involves sexual assault and rape in high school.
https://apnews.com/cdca2c9adf014ed1bf95b3a925c85133/AP:-Sex-assaults-in-...'hazing'
One quote stood out to me:
"What's worse for a young jock than to be emasculated to the lowest level, to be like a girl?"
Kinda tells you everything wrong with the way we think about masculinity.
https://apnews.com/cdca2c9adf014ed1bf95b3a925c85133/AP:-Sex-assaults-in-...'hazing'
One quote stood out to me:
"What's worse for a young jock than to be emasculated to the lowest level, to be like a girl?"
Kinda tells you everything wrong with the way we think about masculinity.
He should never have fallen down those stairs. As sophomores, juniors, and seniors in the frat, if your going to give a pledge that much alcohol, YOU are responsible. Just a little extra caring would have gone a long way. Apparently there was only depraved indifference.
8
There's always a sexual element in "hazing", "initiation", etc. The ancient ancestors were obsessed with cutting bits off boys' penises as part of their enrollment in the tribe. Even the KNIGHTS of COLUMBUS include paddling bare bottoms as part of their initiation. I assume other fraternal organizations are the same. Why is that, men/guys/boys?
7
America the Brave! Get your frat bro skunk drunk , and watch him die after a fall and no one had the guts to call the medics? Sounds like group think in the Trump age. NO ONE WAS REALLY RESPONSIBLE. DUDE.... Send them all to jail , murder 2 . Now for a look at what goes on in higher ed....
1
When I was in college some 25 years the same sorts of things played out across campus with frats. On one ocassion Sigma Phi Epsilon actually gang raped a caucasian female student. She was devastated and left the campus never to return again. Some years later 60 minutes did a story on her experience and I got to see her for the first time. Her case was well known on campus but her identity was kept secret for obvious reasons. There was another case on campus where a minor got into frat party, became drunk and fell off a balcony to his death. If memory serves me right that happened at the Sigma Xi chapter. My point is that you have to be an idiot to believe these frats care about you. It was obvious to me that the cocktail of alcohol, teenage students away from home for the first time, and girls was a recipe for disaster. Sexual innuendo was rampant on the fraternity/sorority scene. It was basically a ginormous orgy with each sorority girl trying to land the biggest and wealthiest jock and each of them in turn trying to deflower as many of the sorority girls as they could. It was really a pathetic sight to witness.
12
the exact same things have happened at marching band parties, off campus housing and spring breaks....sports teams have committed brutal acts of physical hazing.....and girls have been raped in dorm rooms....to single out the fraternity is not only unfair, but ignores the overall problem of extreme binge drinking throughout campus life.
1
During my college days, there were many, many parties and numerous altercations with campus police, local police and the general public. The students who were generally treated as though, and felt as though, they could get away with anything were the entitled little pricks in the Frat houses. Most of them legacy douche bags and trust fund babies. It is about time we stopped coddling them.
4
Good luck prosecutors. The privileged will pay for justice. The children with no morals will get off without any penalty except for civil suits that their parents will pay.
4
Douglas Fierberg's statement in this article says it all: "The central problem is that in a fraternity house, kids, most of whom cannot legally drink, are in charge of getting and serving alcohol,” he said.
2
Frat and sorority culture is elitist, arrogant, undemocratic, and self-righteous. It's time universities discourage it on their campuses. And if they can't, then they need to clamp down heavily with rules, regulations, and real supervision. That includes dorm life, too. But the frats & sorority culture foster an I'm-better-than-you climate around campus that seems far more harmful to the overall college experience. And those attitudes then follow the graduates into their future family, home, work, and even their social lives. I see no upsides to Greek life, despite its adherents arguments to the contrary.
9
How is a fraternity elitist, arrogant, undemocratic and self-righteous any more so than an elite university like Princeton or a top tier company like Google? Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not.....society as a whole has always reflected those exact critiques....Some medical schools are better and harder to get into than others....creating an elitist and arrogant culture....the Navy Seals require a rigorous..."hazing" like qualification..creating an arrogant and elitist culture....The London Orchestra is more elitists than the Columbus, Ohio orchestra.......on and on it goes...
1
We can see by looking at our current government how the "frat boy" mentality plays out in real life. These "boys" were no 5 year olds. They know what they were doing was dangerous and when the worst happens they let him die. It's call reckless disregard for human life and it should be prosecuted. If they weren't "frat" boys would we ever be discussing it. It would be done.
Now if we could only ge prosecutors and judges to see rape by "frat" boys and athletes as rape we might actually be on to a real criminal justice system.
Now if we could only ge prosecutors and judges to see rape by "frat" boys and athletes as rape we might actually be on to a real criminal justice system.
7
I find it interesting that everyone either defends or denigrates the schools and/or the Greeks. I see no parents admitting or accepting the fact that they raised a child who willingly pledged a "house" where conduct was (1) illegal, (2) immoral, and (3) stupid.
8
When are universities going to begin taking a stronger stance and actions against underage drinking and involve themselves in these activities at these frat houses re: these parties and the use of substances. This is happening in and around their campuses and they need to begin to take actions against these fraternities and others who are using alcohol in abusive, dangerous ways and against the law. When are we as a society going to stop condoning the use of alcohol in this way and being to adhere and educate our youth in the responsible use of a legal substance? That usually begins at home as well.
“This is a huge challenge because we don’t own the houses, we don’t own the property, we aren’t the national” organization governing fraternities, Penn State’s president, Eric Barron, said Monday in an interview."
Wow, is that lame or what? Has this guy never seen National Lampoon's Animal House? Does he not understand the concepts of fraternity accreditation and loss of privileges for failing to comply with the rules? Has he never heard of Dean Wormer?
Duhhh.......;, who knew running a university could be this complicated?
Wow, is that lame or what? Has this guy never seen National Lampoon's Animal House? Does he not understand the concepts of fraternity accreditation and loss of privileges for failing to comply with the rules? Has he never heard of Dean Wormer?
Duhhh.......;, who knew running a university could be this complicated?
5
Admittedly this is a tangent: every time I read horrible stories like this one I am reminded of how ridiculous our species is, a mere step above the apes. Like many of the "lesser" primates, we are violent and tribal, our societal structures being overwhelmingly power- (and testosterone-) based. Therefore to gain advantage/acceptance we constantly seek admission into selective groups. And we suffer the consequences.
4
Universities in Canada banned "greek life" from on campus facilities or locations over 25 years ago - and this is with a drinking age of 19, or 18 in Quebec. Why is it taking so long to stop this abusive behavior towards fellow students here in the US?
6
that is complete and utter nonsense..."fake news" so to speak.......Greek organizations are in no way banned in Canada...they are less relevant than the US because, for the reason you state, the drinking age is lower in Canada and so these organizations are not needed as much to foster social drinking...while US colleges they facilitate parties....they are not needed to do so in Canada and so are not as important to college life.
1
The college experience is also known for being pretty lame, overall, in Canada when compared to the U.S. Let's be honest.
There are a lot of boys who grow up looking forward to pledging a particular fraternity that are wanting to experience what "brotherhood" is all about. Sadly, for this young gentleman, this fraternity failed to have the brotherhood instinct to care for one of their bros as they should've. For that reason alone, this chapter has FAILED on an integral mission of what fraternities and sororities stand for and for that reason alone this chapter should be banned and these boys should totally be punished to the full extent of the law. These imbeciles are a total disgrace to the Greek system. Clearly there was a serious lack of leadership and maturity in this house.
There are a lot of boys who grow up looking forward to pledging a particular fraternity that are wanting to experience what "brotherhood" is all about. Sadly, for this young gentleman, this fraternity failed to have the brotherhood instinct to care for one of their bros as they should've. For that reason alone, this chapter has FAILED on an integral mission of what fraternities and sororities stand for and for that reason alone this chapter should be banned and these boys should totally be punished to the full extent of the law. These imbeciles are a total disgrace to the Greek system. Clearly there was a serious lack of leadership and maturity in this house.
As a Penn State alum and father of 3, I am sickened by this story and my heart aches for the parents. I was a resident assistant at University Park for a number of years and I can't count how many parties I had to break up where underage drinking was rampant. It really is ingrained in the culture there.
The campus is stunning and the school is strong academically, but for decades the administration has turned a blind eye towards the abuse of alcohol. One hopes that jail time for those who callously let one of their "brothers" die will bring much needed attention to the problem. Of course, that still won't bring this young man's life back.
The campus is stunning and the school is strong academically, but for decades the administration has turned a blind eye towards the abuse of alcohol. One hopes that jail time for those who callously let one of their "brothers" die will bring much needed attention to the problem. Of course, that still won't bring this young man's life back.
7
These comments are astonishing- is this an alt-right comment board? I expected more from NYT readers to understand the realities of alcohol, contemporary college life and greek culture before making sweeping and vicious comments demonizing fraternities categorically. Is this fox news? Identify the boogeyman [fraternities], the vanquishing of which solves all the problems? Sounds like a deplorable position. Greek life is one gear in the machinery that creates tragedy like this on a routine basis nationally. It is part of a conversation we need to be having. But the fact is many schools don't have greek life and kids still die. Also, if your basis for criticism of fraternities is your own college experience 20-40 years ago, you're working with outdated information. And a lot of these comments point to a personal bias as primary reason for the criticism.
2
Guess the comments held up a mirror for you? A bit defensive there.
3
The key word in the headline and the story is "deaths"!
We're not talking about some harmless pranks gone wrong, or even binge drinking taking a couple of students into the ER to vomit out excess alcohol and go home the next day.
People DIED as a result of this event, and other like it!
That's an utterly different, way way more serious situation.
Imagine how any of us would feel if out son, daughter, or family member dies like this?
The point is not blind vengeance and restitution -- but there should be consequences for depraved indifference to human life -- but to make sure something like this NEVER, EVER happens again!
We're not talking about some harmless pranks gone wrong, or even binge drinking taking a couple of students into the ER to vomit out excess alcohol and go home the next day.
People DIED as a result of this event, and other like it!
That's an utterly different, way way more serious situation.
Imagine how any of us would feel if out son, daughter, or family member dies like this?
The point is not blind vengeance and restitution -- but there should be consequences for depraved indifference to human life -- but to make sure something like this NEVER, EVER happens again!
11
Quite apart from the fraternity issue, what was wrong with these young men? Where was their basic humanity when it was clear that one of their peers was in serious condition? It is appalling that so many could stand by, texting each other about the kid's condition, and do nothing to help - for hours!! Is this really the world we live in?
19
My thoughts exactly, Caveat Emptor. While Beta Theta Pi is certainly responsible for promoting/organizing the potentially dangerous hazing event and providing its alcohol, Timothy Piazza didn't have to lose his life as a result. Sadly, basic humanity, common sense, caring, reasonable thinking ability, and responsible action-taking were apparently nowhere to be found in any of the young men present on the night of this tragedy.
1
I was in a fraternity and I understand the social pressure, but I find myself wondering why this bright young man continued with the fraternity and drank what he did. Even young men in college still have free will and the ability to say this is not for me. But, by no means am I am implying the fraternity and individual members do not have responsibility for this tragedy. It just seems to me that the fraternity members involved were either stupid or wanton. How about as part of the entrance exam for college, people are tested to see if they know right from wrong and have even minimal empathy? It seems these frat members would not have passed.
We are just beginning the college search process for my academically capable, athlete daughter. Penn State will NOT be on the list.
Kids let loose on a campus after 18 years of living at home will go overboard when presented with the opportunity unless their parents brought them up with some common sense discipline and a set of values. No parenting will prevent a kid from making a mistake. But good parenting will establish some kind of moral compass that will make them realize, hopefully sooner than later, they have a social and moral obligation to act responsibly when their mistake can result in harm or death to others. I will venture to guess that a lot of the kids who let this happen without lifting a finger were raised by overly permissive parents who let them get away with whatever they wanted.
1
Is this the same Penn State that looked the other way when a pervert was prowling the sacred football field?
1
It's just mind boggling that this crap still goes on. These boys made a terrible mistake. They need to be held accountable. Hopefully they will learn from it. So terribly tragic and sad.
7
Cloud 9: They get to move on and learn from it? What about Tim Piazza? "Brothers" does not describe those who force a young pledge to get liquored up, and leave him to die at the bottom of the steps.
1
Fraternity hazing is just one aspect of the tolerance of bullying in our culture. Whether it's at the elementary or secondary school level, in college fraternities, in the workplace, or in high places of political power, it's all the same--people claiming authority to abusively exert their control over others.
Bullying is prevalent in all cultures to some degree, however in the United States, we've raised it to a higher art and have been far too tolerant for far too long of such behavior in our institutions.
Perhaps we're at a turning point for the better. Treating it as a prosecutable crime should help.
Bullying is prevalent in all cultures to some degree, however in the United States, we've raised it to a higher art and have been far too tolerant for far too long of such behavior in our institutions.
Perhaps we're at a turning point for the better. Treating it as a prosecutable crime should help.
9
It's way past time for colleges and universities to abolish fraternities and sororities. Initially that policy would be directed to on campus, formal organizations. They serve no legitimate purpose and cause far more harm than they're worth.
Beyond that, there's another significant question. What kind of upbringing are these young people's parents providing? The admissions process should be modified to allow universities and colleges to obtain a better understanding of the parents' values and the extent to which those values are instilled in their children.
Beyond that, there's another significant question. What kind of upbringing are these young people's parents providing? The admissions process should be modified to allow universities and colleges to obtain a better understanding of the parents' values and the extent to which those values are instilled in their children.
This story pursues a narrative of an engaged university that chases its frats off campus and severs official ties.
Instead, this is an appalling attempt for universities to attempt to escape liability for organizations that they could control, but for a complete absence of will or courage.
Instead, this is an appalling attempt for universities to attempt to escape liability for organizations that they could control, but for a complete absence of will or courage.
7
This case was more than hazing or alcohol intoxication. The victim in this case, while intoxicated, fell down a flight of stares leading to a skull fracture and splenic contusion. He had to be carried up a flight of stares and had water thrown on him at attempts to revive him. It seems that the individuals who have felony charges levied against them were cognizant their peer was injured and did nothing to help him.
20
"fell down a flight of stares"
So there were plenty of eyewitnesses?
So there were plenty of eyewitnesses?
In 2017, it feels wrong to refer to a 19 year old kid as a "man", with all the adult connotations that implies.
How does the author of this dastardly crime legitimize this tragedy by saying "applications are up 30%". OMG...it's incredulous. Penny State may be a popular college, but this story is beyond tragic. Beyond any normal human behavior. We have to look at the whole breakdown of society, the blatant disregard for civility and decency. Whether it's hazing or bullying, our culture has become so DESENSATIZED to everything. The fact that that the boys didn't get this kid help. And, Penn State being so cavalier. It leaves one speechless.
30
Alcohol, like the Duke lacrosse case, is at the bottom of this tragedy. Where is the outrage over the fatalities and social impact of alcohol abuse? Instead, we're concerned with pot and bad "hombres" from Mexico. And please,
hearing about Penn State's "values" makes me ill.
hearing about Penn State's "values" makes me ill.
13
You mean that the stripper who falsely accused men of rape was drunk?
1
Is it NOT a matter of LAW, not who is, or is not, a fraternity member. Let the law prevail and make the decisions, not the media..............
1
A university that built and maintained a personality cult around Joe Pa is a school that is deliberately blind to abuse going on in its midst. When the decision makers go to hire graduates from this decidedly second-rate institution, they should remember that it's rife with misogynistic, homophobic institutions called frats. And the supporting cast in the sororities should not get a pass either. To be fair, in a petit-bourgeois world such as suburban Pennsylvania there exist many other bastions of ignorance, and they extend beyond the borders of that commonwealth. We need to task Congress with an investigation of hazing and related death throughout the unhappy land.
13
Yes, let's please impugn the tens of thousands of students who go to school there and the hundreds of thousands of alumni because a small handful of students engaged in criminal and indefensible behavior for which they should go to jail.
Let's point out that this kind of behavior is exclusive to Penn State and not shared by other large public universities.
Let's point out that this kind of behavior is exclusive to Penn State and not shared by other large public universities.
2
I totally agree with you.
1
It is an indisputable fact that men in their late teens and early 20's are not yet cognitively mature. The development of the prefrontal cortex continues into the mid 20's. This means that young men tend to be prone to poor impulse control. It is therefore no surprise that things often go wrong when young men who have been supervised by adult parents their whole lives suddenly throw themselves into an unsupervised live-in club, the stated or implied purpose of which is to party, drink, and chase girls.
There have been more than plenty of stories in the news over the years of things going horribly wrong in fraternities. Unfortunately, this story will make no difference. Fraternities are just a bad setup. Young men with no supervision, immature brains, drinking, and intense peer pressure is a perfect storm for producing stupid and wrong behavior - not all the time, but sooner or later.
There have been more than plenty of stories in the news over the years of things going horribly wrong in fraternities. Unfortunately, this story will make no difference. Fraternities are just a bad setup. Young men with no supervision, immature brains, drinking, and intense peer pressure is a perfect storm for producing stupid and wrong behavior - not all the time, but sooner or later.
10
It's all part of Basic Business School training for CEOs in America - "How to Get Away With Murder".
8
The problem goes beyond fraternities, it also involves the culture of the college town. How do you think the frats got the booze? The local vendors were well aware of where the product was going.
I never joined a fraternity, but as an 17-18 year old freshman at PSU, I had no problem finding a bar that would serve me alcohol on a regular basis. and this, along with two other issues (My parent's bitter divorce, and my immaturity) led me to flunk out.
I then joined the Navy, went through the Nuclear Power Program, served as a Nuclear Reactor Operator aboard nuke subs, then got my engineering degree via the GI bill while supporting a wife and two kids.
I had it easier at PSU, but couldn't handle it then. I believe this is true of many young people who first enter college. But you have to consider the culture of the town as well as the reputation of the school before choosing a college..
I never joined a fraternity, but as an 17-18 year old freshman at PSU, I had no problem finding a bar that would serve me alcohol on a regular basis. and this, along with two other issues (My parent's bitter divorce, and my immaturity) led me to flunk out.
I then joined the Navy, went through the Nuclear Power Program, served as a Nuclear Reactor Operator aboard nuke subs, then got my engineering degree via the GI bill while supporting a wife and two kids.
I had it easier at PSU, but couldn't handle it then. I believe this is true of many young people who first enter college. But you have to consider the culture of the town as well as the reputation of the school before choosing a college..
8
This documentary This American Life on Party life at Penn State said it all in 2009. Nothing has changed.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/396/1-party-school
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/396/1-party-school
4
And what about sorority girls?
3
As always, I'd expect women are nowhere near as lethal as men.
9
My Freshman year, in a dormitory, nearly everyone got drunk after finals. I remember one guy passed out, flat on his back, vomiting slowly but continuously into his mouth, which had filled to overflowing with vomit. I know now that it was a miracle he did not die of aspiration pneumonia, but 18 year old kids (mostly engineering students) did not know that. Nobody knew what to do, so they did nothing, partly because they feared that if they called 911 everyone would get in trouble. That was 1968. Really, not much has changed since then.
15
Why shouldn't they be charged as criminals, they are. They were allowed the privilege of attending the halls of knowledge, yet chose effete entitled ignorance Why are priests, coaches and teachers subject to a parallel justice? Greatly, Penn State is to blame. They have refused to change the culture. This is a school where tailgating starts on Wednesdays! The enabling goes high here, the Governor sued to reject the penalties handed down for the sexual assault of children in the Sandusky case! Step outside the bubble, take a look from the outside, something has to change. No criminal or financial pain, no change. It appears the moral compass is broken!
12
This ridiculous culture of excess simply does not exist outside of the US. Greek Life and an emphasis on Sport and the party atmosphere it brings with it rather than academia are a real blemish on what are otherwise excellent institutions retaining some of the most renowned faculty anywhere in the world.
13
You couldn't be more wrong - one of my sons is studying abroad for a semester and the same things happen....very silly to blame it on 'US culture of excess'. Young adults, often out on their own for the first time in their lives, will try a lot of different things.
4
Clearly you've never been to Ibiza, some of the Greek Islands, the Full Moon Party in Thailand, Vang Vieng, Laos amongst others.....the culture of excess is not unique to the American University Scene.
I agree we can get up to no good, so to speak, in Europe also and we all know about the UK's excessive drinking problem (being a Brit myself) but it's very different here. I went to college in London where late nights on the town and drug usage were a common occurrence in clubs for example. Hazing though is almost non-existent. I also think the legal age of drinking should be mentioned. I can attest that even graduate students here in Tallahassee still treat alcohol like its just been discovered. I'm not blaming the US, just saying the culture of drinking among young people has different factors to those elsewhere.
5
My twin sons graduated from college last year. Neither of them drink. At first they struggled to socialize, as alcohol was so much a part of the scene. This included what is now called pre-game....getting drunk prior to attending a party. At first they took on the designated driver role, but eventually tired of providing nanny service to their fellow students. Ultimately they both discovered at their schools (U.VA and UChicago) significant sub cultures of non drinkers, and had great overall social experiences, without booze. Non drinkers are among us in every educational institution. If you don't want to drink, you'll just need to make the effort to find them.
53
Do you honestly believe that, as the parent, you received an honest and unedited account of your sons' college drinking and partying habits?
4
Why aren't the university and all its leaders being charged also? They are complicit in this criminality. Underage drinking is a crime, and aiding and abetting it is a crime (contributing to delinquency, among other possible crimes).
It's about time all parties from top to bottom pay for this criminal culture.
It's about time all parties from top to bottom pay for this criminal culture.
4
"This would not have happened in an on-campus dorm." Except, it easily could have, and it absolutely has happened "on-campus" in countless cases. The dorm hall RA is just another student, maybe a year older, who has to sleep and go to class, too. Without sanctioned frat parties, college students will just go underground to party, where there's no oversight, no rules, and no authorities even know where the party is. When my frat had parties, there were regular checks by university-affiliated officials to be sure we were following the rules. Were rules still broken? Sure. Did I see some things I knew were a bad idea? Yes. But the problem is not fraternities in general - it's college-aged kids who were ill prepared by their parents for the freedoms college affords. No self-control, no appreciation of consequences, no consideration for others - and NO correlation between that and whether the person was in a frat or sorority.
To be fair, some specific fraternities' mission is get as inebriated as possible, every single day. They would not be hard to identify. But hey.... raise better kids.
To be fair, some specific fraternities' mission is get as inebriated as possible, every single day. They would not be hard to identify. But hey.... raise better kids.
5
All the news out of Penn State for the last several years indicates that it's a lousy school and very poorly run. Who would pay to send their kid there?
7
Something is wrong with kids that volunteer to join an association that demands public humiliation and abuse before acceptance.
I did not study in this country, so this practice is foreign to me, apart from being completely abhorrent, but I know that my two kids graduated successfully from major US universities without ever getting close to a fraternity or sorority. They both managed to make good friends at college; those relationships have withstood the test of time.
I did not study in this country, so this practice is foreign to me, apart from being completely abhorrent, but I know that my two kids graduated successfully from major US universities without ever getting close to a fraternity or sorority. They both managed to make good friends at college; those relationships have withstood the test of time.
13
This kid would still be alive if the frat was doing bong hits instead of whiskey shots. Why is alcohol considered so "good time" and socially acceptable given the extreme dangers misuse entails?
14
I'm sure without doing research that Penn State has a good samaritan policy for calling medics or taking someone to the hospital. The fact is that no one in that fraternity would have gotten in trouble for taking him to the hospital. They could have put him on a park bench and called 911 for all it mattered. This is not a fraternity issue, it is a culture issue and an individual responsibility issue. I was in a fraternity, yes we drank but it was always by choice and there was always someone in the house sober to take someone for help. I found it a rewarding experience I would not have gotten otherwise, and also got a start in philanthropy I continue to pursue today. The problem here is these immature kids were indoctrinated into a culture that glorifies alcohol fueled adventures as a right of passage. I'd bet even before they went to Penn State [I'd bet again that's WHY they want to Penn State], these kids were underground drinking pros. Not to be unkind, but Penn State is not a selective school. If you are a bad student and love to drink, you go to Penn State. Fraternities are made up of individuals, and commenters who just want to say get rid of fraternities and all will be fine are kidding themselves. The problem is so much bigger and deeper and scarier than social drinking clubs. The only hope we have is for us to raise our kids to be free-thinking, strong minded and willing to do the right thing.
56
Perhaps one issue is that the kids have to be given more responsibility - and some decision making responsibility - and be held responsible for their actions -- starting well before September of freshman year. In general - and I am not a teetotaler - society has to stop pretending that this level of widespread alcohol abuse at particular colleges is just sowing wild oats. There will be individuals everywhere who overdo it or develop alcohol dependency, but this business of hazing by making pledges ingest deadly levels of alcohol is criminal - or should be. Hazing itself when it involves humiliation is not something that makes any sense to me; administering deadly doses of a dangerous substance is deplorable.
2
PREACH.
"If you are a bad student and love to drink, you go to Penn State." This is simply wrong and suggests the kids involved were just too dumb to know any better. Penn State is the highest ranked public university in the Northeast according to US News and World Report and has been for many years. Compared to Princeton, it's not selective. Compared to all 4 year colleges in the U.S. it's highly selective. One of the draws is that it is an exceptionally beautiful campus as well. It's disappointing that one would equate sociopathic behavior like that displayed at the Beta fraternity house with poor academic performance. But it's even worse when the comment is so ignorant in doing so.
Toxic Masculinity. When will we address this disease?
1
Frats are little more than legalized street gangs that kill their members with beer instead of bullets.
6
That's a stretch..
and the universities where they resides? Is there an over the top comparison for those too? I'd point out that alcohol related deaths and not confined, or even proportionally skewed toward fraternities. These deaths happen on college campuses just as much where there is no greek life. But you might not consider those valid facts to your alternate reality
2
Once somebody dies, it stops being a prank. It's a crime and those who aided and abetted in this crime should pay. I have no sympathy for those frat boys.
9
Is this the university trumpf and is family attended? Did they learn their behaviors there, or vice versa?
3
No, that was Penn.
The Piazza family attorney believes that hazing was a well known fact to all at Penn State, it is reasonable that everybody knew about Sandusky.
2
Hazing is well known at all universities that have fraternities -- state schools, small colleges, Ivy League -- all of them haze.
I really have zero pity for these frats. I know they're young but just like drink and driving, they should have known better. It was reckless and one person is dead just to prove their allegiance to a really dated and completely stupid college tradition.
3
I do hope the deadly fraternities of Dartmouth College & elsewhere take heed.
A young teen becomes morally, ethically, mentally, emotionally, and physically compromised from the torments of "hazing." In the armed services, such behavior is criminal. In POW camps, such torment is criminal.
Lives are ruined, families are forever broken, and a young man who had been full of promise is deade.
Where were the Prosecutors for all those past years?
It is long past due that these deadly fraternities are held legally responsible for a reckless, abusive, deliberate, and pre meditated disrega d for human life.
They are NOT boys, nor are they "men." They are CRIMINALS.
A young teen becomes morally, ethically, mentally, emotionally, and physically compromised from the torments of "hazing." In the armed services, such behavior is criminal. In POW camps, such torment is criminal.
Lives are ruined, families are forever broken, and a young man who had been full of promise is deade.
Where were the Prosecutors for all those past years?
It is long past due that these deadly fraternities are held legally responsible for a reckless, abusive, deliberate, and pre meditated disrega d for human life.
They are NOT boys, nor are they "men." They are CRIMINALS.
7
"The deadly fraternities of Dartmouth College"?......I can see no record of any deadly fraternity at Dartmouth College.
1
A story like this should NEVER have been called a 'regrettable accident' and ended in 'handwringing and litigation'. The hazing that goes on in fraternities has always been a questionable - at best - practice. This story goes so much farther, and is absolutely astounding, in that 18 young men stood by while Timothy Piazza died a slow, unnecessary death. The lack of empathy, and lack of feeling responsible for another human being is beyond words. Maybe holding these 18 young men accountable will set an example for other fraternities. We can only hope,
6
I don't understand why the Times story didn't name the defendants. These were not victims of sexual assault. Presumably they weren't minors. Why not provide their names and information about their backgrounds?
15
So what were you going to do with their names and backgrounds? Their names were printed in the Daily Mail published in Great Britain. They are all 18-22 year olds and from average white, middle class backgrounds.
18 to 21, college age is prime time for this kind of behavior young men have toward one another. Therw is a little depraved indifference while bullying each other. When the drinking age was 18, it was more the individuals' responsibility. Here, since the drinking age was 21, the organization holds responsibility for letting the minor drink, or forcing him, or encouraging him to drink alcohol. Parents should be aware that such rites still exist on many campuses.
This age group is primed to have fun, take risks, and exert power with little thought for the consequences. Death is not on the radar for the vast majority of kids at this stage. Earlier education and focus on personal responsibility and choice in the face of group peer pressure is crucial. Individually many of these students would behave differently - in a group it's pretty much Lord of the Flies.
I cannot imagine the heartache the parents of this lovely young man are suffering, as they seemed to have done everything right by him. Agree with all the comments about the moral cancer of Penn State - on all fronts: academic, ethics, legal, ad infinitum. In all the years I spent in Pa. and NYC interviewing young marketing majors from various universities, the ONLY way my colleagues and I acquiesced to meeting Penn State alums was under duress - i.e., a personal favor, high recommendation, or a client requested it, etc. Experienced hiring managers know to expect a lower intellectual quality from Penn State: almost no independent reading, majors that are ridiculous and useless in the real world, specious extracurricular activities, and an almost universal incapacity to write a coherent persuasive cover letter to accompany resumes. Graduates of smaller colleges, including the independents and Catholic schools, were remarkably more poised, accomplished and respectful in interviews and, once hired, exhibited far greater work ethic.
I am pleased to see there are being charges filed after reading the details on this case. The details are horrific of his 10+ hours of suffering in plain sight. I do think the leaders of the frat who were deemed 'in charge' should be held accountable. As far as 18 students charged seems a bit excessive as there is an obvious power dynamic going on during a hazing process with the recruits. But I am sure that will all play out in the trial.
At Wake Forest I asked my daughter where all the alcohol came from that was being consumed at frat parties- it's expensive. She said when a boy was accepted into a frat his father, grandfather, etc. sent them cases of expensive liquor, and there was a storeroom filled to the rafters. The drinking, and the callous attitude that left a boy to die, are learned at home. Put the parents in jail too.
2
This is a terrible tragedy. That none of the young man's colleagues had the decency to call for help is very disturbing, not only because their failure to do so resulted in this young man's death, but, I wonder what it portends for the future, if any of these young men should find themselves in situations where another needs help - will they also fail to render assistance?
This story caused me to think about situations involving fraternity drinking parties where the victim, instead of being a male fraternity pledge or member, is a young female invitee. If she had gotten drunk, and then was harmed in any way - raped, beaten, etc., I wonder, would the level of rage and disgust have been the same, or, would those in the general public, including prosecutors, have taken the attitude that the female victim was to blame for her plight?
Just because an individual makes an error in judgment, and becomes so intoxicated that s/he is unconscious, does not excuse the bad behavior of others in terms of criminal acts they perpetrate upon, or actions they fail to take to help the individual.
This story caused me to think about situations involving fraternity drinking parties where the victim, instead of being a male fraternity pledge or member, is a young female invitee. If she had gotten drunk, and then was harmed in any way - raped, beaten, etc., I wonder, would the level of rage and disgust have been the same, or, would those in the general public, including prosecutors, have taken the attitude that the female victim was to blame for her plight?
Just because an individual makes an error in judgment, and becomes so intoxicated that s/he is unconscious, does not excuse the bad behavior of others in terms of criminal acts they perpetrate upon, or actions they fail to take to help the individual.
The Brotherhood of the Future FOX Newsers. They will fit right in there.
1
Penn State seems like a school to stay away from.
10
And sororoties?
1
Somewhere, long before setting out for college, perhaps the idea could be firmly in place that it is not okay to force someone to drink alcohol, let them fall down a flight of stairs and wait hours and hours before calling for medical help . That the impulse to help someone who was injured and unconscious was eclipsed by the impulse to text about the situation. Astounding.
Maybe it could be strongly suggested at home before unleashing a young person ill equipped to join civilization out into the world.
Incidences of unfettered cruelties the young might feel entitled to engage are no longer uncommon.
Lord of the Flies, although the characters in this novel were much younger.
My heart is sick for the parents of this young man.
Maybe it could be strongly suggested at home before unleashing a young person ill equipped to join civilization out into the world.
Incidences of unfettered cruelties the young might feel entitled to engage are no longer uncommon.
Lord of the Flies, although the characters in this novel were much younger.
My heart is sick for the parents of this young man.
25
The kind of crap these frat boys continue to foster is a training for how they will act in the future. These are breeding grounds for bad manners and in this case it cost the life of a student. Alcohol is poison and should be treated that way.
14
We have created an elitist culture that coddles those of privilege.
On top of that, popular culture is basically about people behaving badly. Everything is extreme whether it's drinking, eating, movies, internet games, etc., etc. We play games where killing things is the main sport. Seriously?
Young people are putting shots of vodka directly into their eye sockets and we know how that's ending!
Everyone is trying to live on the edge but sometimes the edge can crumble and dump you in the abyss of consequences!
On top of that, popular culture is basically about people behaving badly. Everything is extreme whether it's drinking, eating, movies, internet games, etc., etc. We play games where killing things is the main sport. Seriously?
Young people are putting shots of vodka directly into their eye sockets and we know how that's ending!
Everyone is trying to live on the edge but sometimes the edge can crumble and dump you in the abyss of consequences!
16
They want to live on the edge??? Let them fight for their country instead of endless keg parties. A new breed of idiots.
19
Here in the affluent suburbs of central NJ the Penn State frat "culture" and its excesses, vs even other universities with significant frat ethos, well known. Being good Republicans, it is of course embraced, and Penn State is a very desirable destination. Hey, if frat attitudes are good enough for the president...
6
Frat hazing is chronic and real and goes mostly unreported because most hazed students don't die. My experiences in a frat in college seemed so fun when they happened - and while I participated. They caused a lot of nightmares for me as well. Luckily no one was killed but we were all harmed, even those "brothers" who think it had no impact on them. The promise of brotherhood, tight friendships, all forged in alcohol are untrue. I am not friends wth a single of my "brothers" from my frat. I don't blame some for not liking me, and don't like many of them either. Surely some friendships are made, but these friendships are not worth it. Join a club instead.
121
When your son decides to join a fraternity maybe you should try harder to talk him out of it. Are parents proud of their kids joining up and pledging?
Don't they know about the potential dangers and hazing episodes?
If my child was going to take that route I'd threaten to take away their college funding. Hesitate before allowing your offspring to merrily join along in these awful institutions. It's similar to football playing parents saying they weren't aware of the dangers after their child succumbs to injuries. Say no to frats.
Get rid of them, they're a menace to campus' everywhere.
Don't they know about the potential dangers and hazing episodes?
If my child was going to take that route I'd threaten to take away their college funding. Hesitate before allowing your offspring to merrily join along in these awful institutions. It's similar to football playing parents saying they weren't aware of the dangers after their child succumbs to injuries. Say no to frats.
Get rid of them, they're a menace to campus' everywhere.
13
Right on! My Frat experience was sixty years ago. Nothing has changed.
"Treating Frat Boys as Criminals in Hazing Deaths"
That is a really poor choice for a headline. It makes it sounds like these "frat boys" are from the movie Animal House.
That is a really poor choice for a headline. It makes it sounds like these "frat boys" are from the movie Animal House.
1
If your main purpose in attending a college is the fraternity, just don't go. Get a real job, enlist in the military, volunteer. In other words, grow up.
Wait a few years. The schools will still be there.
Wait a few years. The schools will still be there.
18
In a sane society, this fraternity crap would have been left behind in the 50's.
16
Another glaring example of Penn State's inability to protect its students as it tries to protect itself. Was this fraternity a 'model' of how well the university controls the well being of its community in general? Not so Happy Valley.
6
Fraternities and sororities have outlived their usefulness, if they ever had any. They claim to do public service, but so do other campus groups. I say this as a college professor who has had female students sexually assaulted; students-male and female--who party so much they come to class unable to take tests and ultimately end up on academic probation or expelled from the university. Additionally, as this story notes, the campuses don't own the houses where members live, so de-certifying them, does little good.
9
It is a tragic story, but a 19 year old is capable of saying NO
NO to this insane hazing................who'd want to belong to this club?
At 19 you should be immune to peer pressure and able to take responsibility for your own actions.....no one forced the first drink down his throat. parents take heed............make your kids tough enough to resist this activity, that goes for girls too
NO to this insane hazing................who'd want to belong to this club?
At 19 you should be immune to peer pressure and able to take responsibility for your own actions.....no one forced the first drink down his throat. parents take heed............make your kids tough enough to resist this activity, that goes for girls too
5
A 19 year old is still a child in terms of judgement, and when did peer pressure get outgrown so quickly? He was a victim, and now he is dead.
It seems at times the same people who are judging Penn State as cult of debauchery wish to condemn the Catholic Church in its entirety or scapegoat all Muslims. Polarized thinking has become the norm for the zoned-out Netflix watchers & twitter tweeters. Allowing themselves to be dazed by the comfortable Obama years & lacking any propensity for curiosity or real investigation they allow fake news & mob mentality to think for them. Perhaps those criticizing the young partying drinkers are themselves kicking back with a beer or 7. The post cyber anti-intellectualism & rampant vacancy among the masses is stupefying. Apple pie fascism is well on its way before world War III unfolds.
1
This case is not about hazing or the Greek culture. It's about letting somebody die.
22
The title before clicking onto the story: "Treating Frat boys as Criminals", begs the question: Why wouldn't criminal behavior be treated like a crime? Why all of the click-bait "First Titles" NYT?
13
I once blacked out at a sorority/fraternity function and woke up in the hospital in a party dress. I could have died. There was no hazing involved. It was simply shyness and internal pressure to let loose and keep up. I drank the alcohol on a sorority-chartered bus. Afterward, the sorority required me to complete an on-campus alcohol treatment program and suspended me from evening events. This combination of individual treatment and punishment didn't address the root culture. Soon the shame wore off and I joined them at parties again. So the compartmentalization continued -- studying during the week and destroying my brain on the weekends. I often think that if an alien landed on a college campus, they'd ask incredulously, "Why are these smart kids ingesting poison?"
4
My small college had only on-campus frats, and even then we usually had one or two students die each year, one from drinking-related event, and the other from suicide. If you want to stop the drinking deaths you have to stop the drinking, and that means college authorities need to crack down on it rather than turning a blind eye. If it means banning living off-campus, then do so.
The frats were hotbeds of assaults on women, exam cheating, and the arrogance of rich kids who partied their way through school knowing their parents would give them jobs for which they weren't qualified in their companies.
The truth of the matter is that this stuff never changes... Kids faced extreme pressure to succeed, and that drove both the drinking and the suicides.
The frats were hotbeds of assaults on women, exam cheating, and the arrogance of rich kids who partied their way through school knowing their parents would give them jobs for which they weren't qualified in their companies.
The truth of the matter is that this stuff never changes... Kids faced extreme pressure to succeed, and that drove both the drinking and the suicides.
7
One or two deaths at frats each year??!!!!
I know I am old, so memory isn't what it once was, but I don't remember statistics like that while at UNH.
I know I am old, so memory isn't what it once was, but I don't remember statistics like that while at UNH.
As a former executive director of a National Fraternity, lawyer, and expert witness in fraternity litigation, this strikes hard as evidence of our failure to stop this sort of thing, an effort we have worked hard on since 1986. My viewpoint of this being a new milestone in stopping hazing is: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/penn-state-piazza-case-marks-new-mileston...
3
While everyone is jeering at Penn State and Greek culture, can we please take a moment to think about the parents and rest of this student's family? I cannot even imagine what they are going through. To send a young person to college and then have him/her die is as heartbreaking as it gets.
120
It sure is. But, the victim and his parents were well aware of what goes on in these frats. At the outset, the victim was free to walk away.
Has anyone considered that the sense of impunity encouraged in Fraternities is the same sense of impunity that adults take with them into politics and business and shows itself in our current culture of a de-regulated Wall Street crony capitalism and intentionally hamstrung government?
139
Some of the truest words to come forth from the comments section in years!
4
Alcohol is probably the primary connector in college rape and frat boy assault cases. Having the age lowered is not the answer. Yes from underground it will come over-ground so what? It is the "culture" which somehow glorifies drinking and behaving badly, which is thought of as cool or funny (Animal House for instance). Smoking was considered cool and "sexy", but see how that has changed quite a lot over the years (though not completely gone). This is a slow process and may not change in my lifetime but I hope eventually, like smoking, it will fade away.
17
Part of the reason students drink to excess is because it's illegal. It becomes part of the underground culture rather than something you can get every day. Once you find out what good beer tastes like (normally after it's legal) you drink less of it and get drunk less of the time, and you're less ok with getting drunk on the swill flowing from kegs at frat parties. Remove the illegality and you will remove at least some of the bingeing problem.
Also: I know personally of a small university that has its own police force. They tell the students flat out that they will not prosecute them simply for drinking. There are plenty of parties, but they don't have deaths. Yes, it's smaller - but students who know they can call an ambulance without penalty will do it much more quickly. That might have saved this boy's life.
Also: I know personally of a small university that has its own police force. They tell the students flat out that they will not prosecute them simply for drinking. There are plenty of parties, but they don't have deaths. Yes, it's smaller - but students who know they can call an ambulance without penalty will do it much more quickly. That might have saved this boy's life.
8
I graduated from Penn State in 1993. I can see that nothing has changed since then. Penn State is a notorious party school, the fact which attracts a lot of students. The university anti-drinking programs are not working. The party atmosphere is deeply ingrained in the university experience at Penn State and many other schools. The only way to change behavior like this is to either prepare kids before they go to school so they make positive choices or
bring down the hammer of justice on these kids heads when they make the wrong choice.
bring down the hammer of justice on these kids heads when they make the wrong choice.
11
It's the parents job to make sure kids have the guts to say NO NO NO
2
I agree with people here who suggest lowering the drinking age, but that has next to nothing to do with this case. These kids were not exploring alcohol. They were hazing. Forcing pledges to drink themselves to the point alcohol poisoning is only one part of hazing. Take away the booze, and you'll still be left with the beatings, sexual assault, shaming, ritual humiliation, abuse, and all of the other sweet little Greek traditions.
27
Penn State's administration clearly has a long and sordid history of looking the other way when it comes to making hard choices that would improve the safety of the kids under their care and supervision. And I say this as an alumnus.
171
In the least, students away from home for the first time should receive a personal lecture by an official.
Glad to see the charges being brought against the frat members. It's high time that action be taken against these sick, self-destructive subcultures where having a good time means abusing one's body and putting other's lives in danger.
8
I work for one of the biggest state schools in Texas. Unfortunately, college students are adults, and hazing is a remnant from high school. Injuries that they commit should be prosecuted as crimes. It's the parents' fault for not teaching the student better. Their naivete has no legal bearing.
13
The PARENTS' fault? Because your kids did everything you ever told them? And you did everything your parents told you? Seriously??
This is like the South Carolina Transportation Department: There has to be a certain number of accidents/deaths before they will install a new traffic light at an intersection. The parents of these dead students need to raise hell and make it public because, as this article states: Colleges "were unwilling to alienate alumlni donors who belonged to fraternities." And they are places of higher learning.....
4
While reading about another failure of common decency in a fraternity, I can't help but remember another image of greek life from last week. That is a photograph of a circle of African American congresswomen, in Alpha Kappa Alpha pink and green, surrounding their young sister, Taylor Dumpson. Ms. Dumpson, the first person of color to be elected as the student body president at the American University, woke up on her inauguration day to discover the disgraceful appearance of nooses on campus with the letters AKA and "Harambe Bait" written on them. In the following days, the university saw fit to call the D.C. police to protect her and her family after the ADL found evidence of an online white supremacist calling for trolling her.
I was never interested in Greek life, but in Ms. Dumpson's case, I am glad she has a vast circle of sisters supporting her in carrying on.
I was never interested in Greek life, but in Ms. Dumpson's case, I am glad she has a vast circle of sisters supporting her in carrying on.
10
This particular case is sickening and hopefully anyone involved in this kind of hazing will be prosecuted. Unfortunately, there are a large group of people (including these reporters) who hate everything fraternities and sororities stand for and will use every opportunity to denigrate them. Bloomberg found 60 deaths over 8 years - what is left out is the exact cause of death -- was it directly related to drinking or hazing? Also there are currently 750,000 students in a frat or sorority. So over eight years, this means there were well over a million members. Given this, are 60 (frat/sorority) deaths even statistically significant? In 2015, 57 college students died in one semester and most of these had nothing to do with alcohol and none were from hazing (source - Huffington Post).
3
We know what happened in this case, including the fact that one guy at the party pleaded with the others to get the boy who died to a hospital. They not only refused, but they turned on the one who saw the danger. That was criminal. Let them face a jury of their peers. Forcing anyone to drink too much is not a game, it's abuse.
4
As is usual with horrible incidents like this, the armchair quarterbacks have come out in force screaming for a ban on fraternities and declaring them as obsolete as "confederate flags".
Unfortunately kids today seem more bent of cruelty to each other than simple juvenile pranks...but in all fairness to the greek system, we've seen bad behavior from sports teams (both men and women), university bands, off campus housing, and just about any student group that decides to throw a party and get drink.
Clearly the problem is not organizations, but alcohol.....why are students drinking to the extreme...why are they choosing more hard alcohol over beer? Is it the drinking age restrictions? The penalties for underage drinking forcing kids underground....these are the answers that need to be found.
Unfortunately kids today seem more bent of cruelty to each other than simple juvenile pranks...but in all fairness to the greek system, we've seen bad behavior from sports teams (both men and women), university bands, off campus housing, and just about any student group that decides to throw a party and get drink.
Clearly the problem is not organizations, but alcohol.....why are students drinking to the extreme...why are they choosing more hard alcohol over beer? Is it the drinking age restrictions? The penalties for underage drinking forcing kids underground....these are the answers that need to be found.
2
Fine article, but the headline "Treating Frat Boys as Criminals," makes my blood boil! Another instance of privilege and race resulting in differing treatment in the media and under the law. Why don't we title minor driving violations or pre-trial detention articles "Treating Poor People as Criminals" and instances of drug-related crime "Treating Addicts as Criminals"? Oh, because those without privilege are presumed guilty until proven innocent - and rarely do articles document their plight.
32
A 19 year old is not a boy..........................he's a legal adult in our society
4
Chronological age is no barrier to boyhood...I would point you to our POTUS as exhibit #1.
1
The more I read about this story, the more incomprehensible it becomes.
University administrators need to lead and do the right thing. They need to create policies that foster independence and learning for the vast majority of their students. If one of the unintended consequences of change is rankling athletic boosters, fraternity alumni and donors - so be it.
My middle daughter is going to be a high school senior this coming fall, and despite being a Pennsylvania resident - she will NOT be applying to Penn State!
University administrators need to lead and do the right thing. They need to create policies that foster independence and learning for the vast majority of their students. If one of the unintended consequences of change is rankling athletic boosters, fraternity alumni and donors - so be it.
My middle daughter is going to be a high school senior this coming fall, and despite being a Pennsylvania resident - she will NOT be applying to Penn State!
1
Well this is just tragic. I think we can all agree that somebody needs to do something.
2
My question to the hazing issue is this: if an older fraternity member asked a pledge to point a loaded .44 caliber revolver to his head (with only one round), would the pledge do so and pull the trigger?
3
first jerry sandusky and now this
3
When I was growing up in New York the legal drinking age was 18. There were no known ill effects. Pressure to change came from neighboring states with higher age limits, whose kids would drive to NY to drink and then kill themselves on the roads driving home.
It's time for a national change back to 18. No one is stopping 18-21 year-olds from drinking; the current laws just push it underground, giving power to ugly institutions like the fraternities.
As for Penn State: Between their silence about child rape to protect football and their laissez faire attitude toward fraternity violence, there is a serious moral crisis at that institution. It's a state agency, so maybe the governor should take some action to protect the kids it puts at risk.
It's time for a national change back to 18. No one is stopping 18-21 year-olds from drinking; the current laws just push it underground, giving power to ugly institutions like the fraternities.
As for Penn State: Between their silence about child rape to protect football and their laissez faire attitude toward fraternity violence, there is a serious moral crisis at that institution. It's a state agency, so maybe the governor should take some action to protect the kids it puts at risk.
166
The 21 year olds drinking above-ground are not doing much better.
4
Charlie B, it looks like you believe that if the drinking age were lowered to 18, there would no longer be hazing at fraternities. No one would force pledges to drink too much alcohol. All will be well. Any evidence for that??
@Sam D I said nothing of the kind. I said that fraternities are given extra power by current laws. For a more rational drinking age to be an improvement it need not be a perfect solution. We can and should mitigate bad things even if we can't eliminate them.
BTW, speaking of irrational, I was in the Army at age 19, where I was eligible to kill or be killed, but not to have a beer.
BTW, speaking of irrational, I was in the Army at age 19, where I was eligible to kill or be killed, but not to have a beer.
I will echo what another writer wrote: it is past time to change the drinking age to 18 or even 19. The elephant in the room is that students will drink anyway, regardless of potential legal consequences or perceived availability; they need to know that they can call ambulance without worrying about getting all of their friends in trouble for underage drinking. This is the conundrum: a drunk or tipsy person finds someone is in trouble, and realizes that if they call the ambulance the police will come too and hand out MIP citations as well as arrest anyone over 21 for providing alcohol to minors. When one's faculties are already compromised, and with friends' futures at stake, can we realistically expect someone to call 911 when they know it might not be warranted, and especially if it's going to get their frat buddies in trouble? Our legalism has created this mess.
I agree also that the "Greek" culture is tangential to a University experience and therefore should joy be supported in any official capacity by any University. The hazing and rapes that have long been seen as "boys will be boys" behavior needs to stop and cannot be allowed to have even seemingly official sanction any longer. But as long as universities continue to support so-called Greek life on their campuses, pretending they have a purpose in a world in which their social structure and networking advantages have been long since made obsolete, they continue to tacitly condone and enable this behavior.
I agree also that the "Greek" culture is tangential to a University experience and therefore should joy be supported in any official capacity by any University. The hazing and rapes that have long been seen as "boys will be boys" behavior needs to stop and cannot be allowed to have even seemingly official sanction any longer. But as long as universities continue to support so-called Greek life on their campuses, pretending they have a purpose in a world in which their social structure and networking advantages have been long since made obsolete, they continue to tacitly condone and enable this behavior.
6
As I mentioned in a previous reply.....Fraternities have nothing really to do with networking...they are simple social organization that allow students, of both genders, to make social connections....in many cases a place to eat, sleep and socialize.....let me remind you that sports teams, university bands, and other groups have had just as serious incidents in recent years....yet you don't seem so driven to ban those organizations...in fact universities without Greek organizations have also had issues.....Why don't you ban universities themselves while you're at it.....
2
Somehow I managed to make it through 4 years at a major university without getting hazed, and I had plenty of friends. We shared houses together and therefore made our own places to eat, sleep and socialize - as most students did. My school was large enough that the Greek system was a tiny blip on the social radar. The universities need to come down hard on sports teams and bands that engage in such behavior - but sororities and fraternities are simply not a necessary part of the university experience and don't need any kind of justification from a university. If they want to operate off-campus, fine.
3
I'd be happy to ban football, anyone with me? Anyone?
3
Penn State is a cult. The whole mentality there is to protect the mothership. I've known perfectly normal kids that ended up going to Penn State only to return to the normal world a changed person, and not necessarily for the better. The Greek life scene there is protected by the same Penn State mentality AND administration that protected Joe Paterno who protected Sandusky who raped little boys.
32
I've never understood the 'greek' system. Why would, or should, anyone want to be part of a club who's initiation always includes some sort of hazing to bullying in order to bond and form a unit?
The mix of young brains, quasi adult organizations and responsibilities, and alcohol that inhibits any good judgement that young brains might exercise is toxic.
Why can't colleges and universities create a productive activity to help students build relationships and friendships?
The mix of young brains, quasi adult organizations and responsibilities, and alcohol that inhibits any good judgement that young brains might exercise is toxic.
Why can't colleges and universities create a productive activity to help students build relationships and friendships?
13
What's clear here is that all students are subject to toxic, dangerous environment when these groups are present on campus. I don't have children, but I advise all parents to investigate whether fraternities and sororities are present, at each college their children consider. My advice to the young women I mentor is: don't go there. Choose a college without that kind of threat to your well-being, and without that kind of threat to your life. It's simple
11
Will you also recommend that parents don't send their kids to schools with a college band, or sports teams, or off campus housing.....because horrific incidents have also occurred at those types of organizations....perhaps you should just recommend sending kids to extremely religious school where no socializing or drinking is allowed.
1
Soooo, football teams have hazing, marching bands have hazing, etc etc? Can the 'children' go to schools that have these organizations? Very few 'children' are going off to college; they're usually at least 18.
Fraternity hazing and alcohol overuse by college age students has been too long accepted as "normal behavior." Society has both the ability and the responsibity to change this attitude of acceptance. Whether or not universities bear legal responsibility, they surely bear the ethical and moral responsibility to clearly define their standards of comportment as regards their student body and faculty.
Alumni may indeed hold power in a university decision regarding student discipline. Perhaps if there had been less alumni interference in the past, universities may have been better able to reign in student behavior. At this juncture it is a legal matter. Perhaps universities and alumni will take heed.
Alumni may indeed hold power in a university decision regarding student discipline. Perhaps if there had been less alumni interference in the past, universities may have been better able to reign in student behavior. At this juncture it is a legal matter. Perhaps universities and alumni will take heed.
4
Your headine on the front page is absolutely horrible -- it need to be changed. The one on this page is accurate. But, really? "Treating frat boys as criminals"? They ARE criminals.
74
It's rather easy to prematurely convict Greek organizations as the cause of heinous deaths such as in the Penn State case. To assume causation between fraternal life and hazing is an unfortunate consequence of society's inability to distinguish between particular cases and skewed hasty generalizations about what people may perceive as archaic social groups. By taking a vow to live by a set of core values, members of Greek organizations aspire to rise above the fray but this is painfully not always the case. Can we hear more vignettes about the amazing philanthropic work thousands of fraternity and sorority members do across the country? Would it mitigate the tragic loss of life that has occurred at the hands of some? No. But it would broaden our ability to appreciate the truth that consequences are never the result of a singular action or agent. Everyone should heed the dangers behind this painful narrative. I just wish we would listen to the numerous stories of leadership, service, and responsibility told by the other 9 million alumni and members that proudly wear their Greek letters.
17
Hooey. These organizations are essentially hedonistic first, philanthropic somewhere way down the line.
15
That's well and fine that they do all that stuff too, but it can still be done without being drunk all the time. As far as I'm concerned the first class every kid who goes to college should be one where they have to drink so much that they pass out, and when they wake up write a term paper on how stupid they felt before they did.
3
No doubt there are numerous stories of leadership and philanthropy that come from Greek organizations. Yet at the same time, I'm not familiar with the American Red Cross having recurring issues with sexual assault. I am not aware of Habitat for Humanity grappling with participants who drive each other to drink until hospitalization is necessary. The Rotary Club has not yet gotten on my radar for signup rituals that balance dehumanizing with dangerous.
We have avenues for driven young men and women to pursue leadership and philanthropic roles in their communities, and if none exist to best accommodate their cause of choice, what better reason for them to start an organization on their own?
I am tired of river cleanups and charity bingos providing PR cover for fraternity and sorority groups. It remains that prospective students leaving their towns and entering a new social environment will gravitate to what pop culture has romanticized and is seen as a way to "belong", and eventually either be complicit or willfully ignorant of these same damning behaviors in this article.
University execs and alumni need to step up and exhibit actual leadership. There are plenty of campus groups engaged in community betterment that do so without a toxic undercurrent. Empower them.
We have avenues for driven young men and women to pursue leadership and philanthropic roles in their communities, and if none exist to best accommodate their cause of choice, what better reason for them to start an organization on their own?
I am tired of river cleanups and charity bingos providing PR cover for fraternity and sorority groups. It remains that prospective students leaving their towns and entering a new social environment will gravitate to what pop culture has romanticized and is seen as a way to "belong", and eventually either be complicit or willfully ignorant of these same damning behaviors in this article.
University execs and alumni need to step up and exhibit actual leadership. There are plenty of campus groups engaged in community betterment that do so without a toxic undercurrent. Empower them.
11
Eliminate fraternities- nationwide. Fraternities are nothing but havens for sadistic behavior in the guise of "brotherhood." No one who will truly profess "brotherhood" will abuse another.
End the system. Now!
End the system. Now!
92
I agree! Also, end the band and college athletics as well! There should never be anyone hazed for anything!
Of course the dead of a teenager, a young adult stays always unacceptable, (especially when a white man belonged to the upper-class dies during a withe upper-class activity inside a withe upper-class areas , ya today I am in an extremely sarcastic mood ), but seriously where is the problem ? The fact that young adults takes risks, test the masculinity in ways sometimes dangerous is just an universal behavior. The problem is always the same frigging root of the America society: prudishness : taboo and lack of teaching about sexuality, about drinking alcohol, and we have to be surprised when a pack of young males which discovers freedom, alcohol and sex doesn’t manage to be reasonable.
On the other side, teenagers learn to drive and they seem to be reasonable when they drive alone. Strange, isn’t it ?
And of course, the respond is “filed criminal charges” against other students, of course the best answer. No question about when the other parents and I failed something in the education of ours withe sons.
Ya i show a total lack of empathy, but i just opened the window and see some kids who wont never the opportunity to dead in university fraternity, because they won't never go to the university.
On the other side, teenagers learn to drive and they seem to be reasonable when they drive alone. Strange, isn’t it ?
And of course, the respond is “filed criminal charges” against other students, of course the best answer. No question about when the other parents and I failed something in the education of ours withe sons.
Ya i show a total lack of empathy, but i just opened the window and see some kids who wont never the opportunity to dead in university fraternity, because they won't never go to the university.
3
These young men are criminals. They are also detestable and arrogant. A few years in prison might change them but maybe not. They do not belong on a university campus or part of an academic institution
56
Criminals perhaps. Cowards for certain. It is beyond comprehension that those students who knew this young man was in serious trouble yet they were somehow too cowardly to come to his rescue. Too frightened to do the right thing. One wonders why none had the courage to get help.
If students were treated like the adults we want them to be, by lowering the drinking age, they would not feel the compulsion to act like wild animals let out of their proverbial cage.
3
These clowns are criminals.
10
If frat houses are banned from campuses how will young Republican men learn the social graces?
88
Thank you!
The war on masculinity continues. Lawyers and GPA weenies will inherit the earth.
It's not just fraternities. Drinking is a serious problem at schools with zero Greek life. Check the student newspapers at these non-Greek schools. They list trips by ambulance to the ER and calls to campus security over drunk students. When I visited my child at a small liberal arts school, for Family Weekend freshman year, a drunk student got into an altercation with a police officer and was arrested, there were hard liquor bottles strewn all over the communal area of the mainly freshman dorm (they couldn't put on a good show for the visiting parents!( and the next morning the co-ed bathroom was smeared with vomit. What is stunning is that outside of hazing alcohol contributes to all sorts of serious problems, including accidents, alcohol poisoning and sexual assault. Alcohol is a toxin.
6
Finally they are starting to charge people for these crimes. Hazing is simply a stupid, violent ritual which should have ended a long time ago.
40
A few years ago, a young man died at one of the many private houses near SUNY at Buffalo that are rented solely by members of fraternities but which SUNY chooses not to regulate as fraternity houses. Within a few weeks, residents of the same house where the student died had returned to promoting the wild parties in social media. Most young people of college age are simply incapable of understanding the consequences of their behavior.
59
It is a failure in parenting if as you say, "Most young people of college age are simply incapable of understanding the consequences of their behavior."
I was 19 once and fully understood the concept.
I was 19 once and fully understood the concept.
Hazing is for one purpose: To prove to the individual that the "organization is all".
Whether it is the Marines, the Catholic Church, the Ku Klux Klan, or a 'secret society' like "Skull and Bones", George "W" Bush's little secret at Yale where he happily branded a couple of pledges, there is one point: The individual is inferior to the group.
The lesson of any group's hazing is to teach the initiate that there are 'rungs' on the 'ladder' of life. Because you are a member, you are superior to those 'outsiders' who will never occupy your rung. Lucky you.
However: never forget that the rung above you is occupied by the "organization". If you have any question on where to place your devotion, money or obedience, they will tell you exactly where to put it, and you will do as you are told.
All of this works, has worked for thousands of centuries, up until now.
Now people are sickened by special little groups that use all their power to shut those "others" out. Sure, frat houses take secret photos of naked, unconscious women and post them on "secret" invitation-only web sites.
However, a month ago it was the US Army that had their own little "secret web-site" of, oh, guess what? Naked women, fellow members of the Army that are NOT male. It's the "NOT" that says ladder/rung/haha, we're superior to you!
Wise up, fratboyz.
Today, NOTHING is 'secret'.
The 'organization' is NOT all.
And ladders fall over all the time.
Love a hierarchy at your own risk.
Whether it is the Marines, the Catholic Church, the Ku Klux Klan, or a 'secret society' like "Skull and Bones", George "W" Bush's little secret at Yale where he happily branded a couple of pledges, there is one point: The individual is inferior to the group.
The lesson of any group's hazing is to teach the initiate that there are 'rungs' on the 'ladder' of life. Because you are a member, you are superior to those 'outsiders' who will never occupy your rung. Lucky you.
However: never forget that the rung above you is occupied by the "organization". If you have any question on where to place your devotion, money or obedience, they will tell you exactly where to put it, and you will do as you are told.
All of this works, has worked for thousands of centuries, up until now.
Now people are sickened by special little groups that use all their power to shut those "others" out. Sure, frat houses take secret photos of naked, unconscious women and post them on "secret" invitation-only web sites.
However, a month ago it was the US Army that had their own little "secret web-site" of, oh, guess what? Naked women, fellow members of the Army that are NOT male. It's the "NOT" that says ladder/rung/haha, we're superior to you!
Wise up, fratboyz.
Today, NOTHING is 'secret'.
The 'organization' is NOT all.
And ladders fall over all the time.
Love a hierarchy at your own risk.
30
These kids have gone too far -- they are in college and if they haven't learned the meaning of the word 'consequences" (for their stupid actions), then the legal system has to teach them. Prosecute them and put them in jail. They are responsible for a death of a person -- they need to face the "consequences".
The narrative resembles a Greek tragedy more than a Greek frat. The fatal flaw? "most [universities] were unwilling to alienate alumni donors who belonged to fraternities." By all means - send the perpetrators to jail along with Sandusky. What is going on at that University? Applications are up? Heaven help us!?
10
If excesses by fraternity bullies bother you,
you might ask about bullies in the PSU sororities. Some of my students there 40 years ago told tales of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse and sought solace, but rarely had the nerve to file reports as we suggested, for they were reluctant to be "blackballed", excluded, derided, and made live as "independents".
Universities as large as Penn State is reinforce and may foster student fears about being alone, strangers in the strange world of mass higher education. Afraid, some sell out to socialize now and network for the future in the bars and bedrooms stately, slightly worn-out mansions that PSU offers. Males and females sell body and soul to domineering "brothers" and "sisters" even while studying business ethic, education foundations, etc. The more clannish and abusive societies undermine equality and suppress individuality, qualities the groups assert. Frat life, a dream of "family" protection, can become a deplorable reality , sometimes an abusive trap, and even a fatal threat... a parody of collegiality. Young people with power over you can guide you. They can also own you.
you might ask about bullies in the PSU sororities. Some of my students there 40 years ago told tales of physical, psychological, and sexual abuse and sought solace, but rarely had the nerve to file reports as we suggested, for they were reluctant to be "blackballed", excluded, derided, and made live as "independents".
Universities as large as Penn State is reinforce and may foster student fears about being alone, strangers in the strange world of mass higher education. Afraid, some sell out to socialize now and network for the future in the bars and bedrooms stately, slightly worn-out mansions that PSU offers. Males and females sell body and soul to domineering "brothers" and "sisters" even while studying business ethic, education foundations, etc. The more clannish and abusive societies undermine equality and suppress individuality, qualities the groups assert. Frat life, a dream of "family" protection, can become a deplorable reality , sometimes an abusive trap, and even a fatal threat... a parody of collegiality. Young people with power over you can guide you. They can also own you.
Keep in mind that although this behavior occurs everywhere, Penn State & PA Prosecutor are actually taking action. This puts PSU on the front page as a troublesome place. But I'd be more concerned sending my son to a university that continues to hide the problem. Good on you, Penn State, for accepting the hit that comes from stepping up to take the right action.
3
"Eighteen Penn State students have been charged in the death of a sophomore: a case that, not so long ago, might have resulted only in hand-wringing."
What? A hazing DEATH would have resulted only in hand-wringing not so long ago? I shudder to think that at any time, anywhere, the common reaction to a DEATH like this would have ever been, "Oh well, boys will be boys."
Throw the book at the frat brothers and school administrators, and close down the Penn State chapter of that fraternity. Do the exact same thing at EVERY school at which this happens. That's the only way to get the message across that hazing is unacceptable.
What? A hazing DEATH would have resulted only in hand-wringing not so long ago? I shudder to think that at any time, anywhere, the common reaction to a DEATH like this would have ever been, "Oh well, boys will be boys."
Throw the book at the frat brothers and school administrators, and close down the Penn State chapter of that fraternity. Do the exact same thing at EVERY school at which this happens. That's the only way to get the message across that hazing is unacceptable.
8
How many more young men will have to die before the university environment changes? How many young women (and men) will have to suffer from rapes due to drunkenness on campuses before the university steps in and stops binge drinking? How many more young men will have to get concussions before football is banned on university campuses? When will universities become simply places of learning rather than "good ol' boy" networks where masculinity equals holding your liquor and knocking heads?
17
I'm no lawyer, but based on my extensive education watching cop and lawyer shows on TV, it sounds like these fraternities that engage in this kind of hazing are criminal organizations. They serve alcohol to minors and encourage life-threatening behavior. The national structures operate across state lines, so perhaps the RICO laws apply. It's a thought...
7
I went to college almost 50 years ago and fraternities then were thinly disguised fronts for binge drinking and other juvenile behavior. Seems like nothing has changed.
The degrading rituals that fraternity pledges have to undergo to join a fraternity are nothing but infantile stupidity. There is nothing that can justify hazing. It doesn't make better men out of boys. It simply turns older fraternity members into adolescents. Shame on the fraternity system in America for encouraging this immature behavior in the 21st Century. Forcing pledges to drink alcohol to excess is torture, plain and simple. If the fraternity members didn't realize that what they were doing was immoral (and criminal) they do now. A murder trial may finally wake up college administrations to what they should have done decades ago.
1
Thanks to the Vietnam War, the nation lowered the age of majority from 21 to 18, so, technically speaking, most fraternity members are "men." And the fraternity system make the most of it, because frat rhetoric resounds with references to "the men" of XYZ.
Actually, many frat members are still boys, and they seldom pass up an opportunity to demonstrate their lack of maturity, wisdom, and responsibility.
The problem at the core of the Greek System is that most college-age kids are incapable of living together responsibly in large groups without true adult oversight. Left to their own devices, all too often frat boys will defer to leadership figures who are reckless risk takers. The result is a culture of stupid.
Having lost my college years to the Beta Theta Pi chapter at Northwestern University, where a party atmosphere created a dysfunctional insular society oblivious to the rich opportunities in the university community, I am an abolitionist.
The Greek System might have been less hazardous to life and character when the university still played the role of in loco parentis and frats had experienced house fathers and mothers. But today the system is broken.
The national organizations are imposing "risk management" programs as fast as they can in recognition of serious alcohol-fueled misconduct, maintaining all the while the fiction that the fraternities create "men of principle." The tragedy at Penn State shows these measures are to little, too late.
Actually, many frat members are still boys, and they seldom pass up an opportunity to demonstrate their lack of maturity, wisdom, and responsibility.
The problem at the core of the Greek System is that most college-age kids are incapable of living together responsibly in large groups without true adult oversight. Left to their own devices, all too often frat boys will defer to leadership figures who are reckless risk takers. The result is a culture of stupid.
Having lost my college years to the Beta Theta Pi chapter at Northwestern University, where a party atmosphere created a dysfunctional insular society oblivious to the rich opportunities in the university community, I am an abolitionist.
The Greek System might have been less hazardous to life and character when the university still played the role of in loco parentis and frats had experienced house fathers and mothers. But today the system is broken.
The national organizations are imposing "risk management" programs as fast as they can in recognition of serious alcohol-fueled misconduct, maintaining all the while the fiction that the fraternities create "men of principle." The tragedy at Penn State shows these measures are to little, too late.
5
Fraternities select for the sort of people who behave this way. Why all the surprise?
12
SMedeiros of San Francisco makes a shrewd point: fraternities & their members choose each other--which means, to those of us who don't find frats appealing, there are no heroes in this story, only fools, cowards & killers.
An eager pledge let himself be bullied to the point where he drank himself into a stupor. The people who bullied him let him die, and will face prosecution.
I'm missing the downside.
An eager pledge let himself be bullied to the point where he drank himself into a stupor. The people who bullied him let him die, and will face prosecution.
I'm missing the downside.
This all trickles down from the football program.
"Students" of a certain type attench Penn State because of the campus lifestyle - partying, and football games. This camaraderie actually does transfer to the business world, specifically in Philadelphia where a Penn State diploma is more highly valued than a University of Pennsylvania one. Penn State is an institution that has turned into a monster - all because of its football program.
"Students" of a certain type attench Penn State because of the campus lifestyle - partying, and football games. This camaraderie actually does transfer to the business world, specifically in Philadelphia where a Penn State diploma is more highly valued than a University of Pennsylvania one. Penn State is an institution that has turned into a monster - all because of its football program.
2
When I attended the University of Texas at Austin many years ago, I did not attempt to join a frat. I did not come from a privileged background and mine was the family's first generation to attend college. I was a post-hippie and frankly looked down my nose at frat boys, whom I considered intellectually, psychologically, and morally inferior. I drank my share of alcohol, but preferred to get stoned each day instead (and maintained a perfect 4.0 grade point). I suspect I had a lot more sex than the frustrated frat boys, since I was gay and sex was very, very available. After graduating, I did not need frat connections to succeed in life, but instead relied on my talents and the outstanding education I had received. I read these frat horror story with dismay for my fellow (procreating) Americans, who pass on this blight from generation to generation.
3
All fraternities should be abolished - exclusivity has no place in colleges. And how often do we have to see tragedies connected with the foolish and often cruel activities fraternities inspire? Reminds me of ruthless military hazings.
8
Just make sure you also banish university marching bands, sports teams, and off campus housing where we have also seen frequent abuse incidents involving alcohol and/or hazing.
Good. It should be the start of cleaning up colleges in other ways. Obviously these students are not thinking as adults (or rational adults - I know many adults who don't act any better). Add alcohol and/or drugs to youth and what do we expect? I'd ban alcohol on campus and also legal non-prescription drugs like pot. And, of course, hazing. It's archaic, abusive and so out of line with any possible purpose or mission of the school or a legitimate student so as to be without rationale. Kids will go elsewhere to do all these things or do them "underground," but that's no excuse for trying anymore than it would be an excuse for the police. Stopping on-campus drinking will also have the greatest effect on reducing sexual assaults. At the same time, administrators need to combat the plague of anti-1st amdt. bullying by students or outsiders. Everyone gets to speak. There should be zero tolerance for those who seek to disrupt, "resist" (whatever that means) or use violence to pursue their own message. It is one thing for students to press social ideas they like in debate or peaceful, non-disruptive protest, but they can't drown out discussion, and the school should bend over backwards not to be politically biased one way or the other in making decisions. And administrators have to stop being cowards or taking their golden parachutes and running.
Of course, there is no "boys will be boys" get out of jail free card for kids who do not attend elite universities. They are written off in a heartbeat.
Universities may not own the houses or control the fraternities, but that does not mean that they have to enable them.
Universities may not own the houses or control the fraternities, but that does not mean that they have to enable them.
3
Who in heck would actually willingly want to be a fratboy? Isn't there, like, work to do??
My freshman year, 18+ min credits among a group of ambitious students, we worked. Sophomore was even harder.
Nobody should be hazed, but then nobody should willfully subject themselves to hazing.
When I think of frats, John Belushi comes to mind, things didn't go well for him either, & he was just playing.
Here's an idea: Joining frat requires taking on additional 10 credits. Still a fratboy after that? Parents cut tuition contribution so kid works nights scrubbing dorm toilets, still in a frat? No school for you till you're old enough to handle the responsibility of higher education.
My freshman year, 18+ min credits among a group of ambitious students, we worked. Sophomore was even harder.
Nobody should be hazed, but then nobody should willfully subject themselves to hazing.
When I think of frats, John Belushi comes to mind, things didn't go well for him either, & he was just playing.
Here's an idea: Joining frat requires taking on additional 10 credits. Still a fratboy after that? Parents cut tuition contribution so kid works nights scrubbing dorm toilets, still in a frat? No school for you till you're old enough to handle the responsibility of higher education.
4
There are multiple stories every year of college kids--both in fraternities and not--dying from alcohol poisoning.
It's not a fraternity issue so much as an American cultural problem where alcohol intoxication is fetishized.
Plus, many kids never learn any manner of responsible drinking at home and instead only learn binge drinking from their peers once away at school.
I don't believe this is really a solveable problem given that alcohol already punishes the young abuser so immediately and harshly.
You could ban fraternities but I don't recall worse substance abuse from my fraternity friends than others during college. If anything, the frat house was the place to avoid if you wanted to do anything "really" illegal because frats were uptight about getting in trouble.
It's not a fraternity issue so much as an American cultural problem where alcohol intoxication is fetishized.
Plus, many kids never learn any manner of responsible drinking at home and instead only learn binge drinking from their peers once away at school.
I don't believe this is really a solveable problem given that alcohol already punishes the young abuser so immediately and harshly.
You could ban fraternities but I don't recall worse substance abuse from my fraternity friends than others during college. If anything, the frat house was the place to avoid if you wanted to do anything "really" illegal because frats were uptight about getting in trouble.
3
The university cult of alcohol probably helped my brother become a full blown alcoholic. He was an anxious young person, and alcohol was a standard part of socializing, probably having some calming effect. The really bad part seems to have been the fraternity culture that insisted you could never have fun without guzzling alcohol in some form. There may well be a genetic component, as we had an alcoholic uncle. And there is of course his personal choice never to recognize his excessive drinking. By age 40 he was no longer able to work, and by 50 had lost his house, his family, his small company, his friends, and his health. Now he resides in a nursing home, with dementia due to organic brain damage from alcohol as well as due to a stroke. Young people don't think they are at risk, but alcohol is a poison. College should at least require students to learn what high levels of alcohol use can do to even a young healthy person.
4
Young men and women, some away from home for the first time, search for a new "family" structure to make the transition into the new surroundings. For all of us that attended large Universities, the smallness of the individual is unavoidable. In an 18 year old brain that is not really a comfortable place to be and so we join groups. We look for a new tribe. Unfortunately the new tribe is run by undeveloped (20-22 years old) people. Time to stop the nonsense of "Greek Life" and realize it isn't necessary any longer.
1
Does America have anything positive to gain from the "Sense of Entitlement" fostered and nurtured by the Fraternity and Sorority system at all? Beyond the hazing incidents, there is plenty of evidence to suggest we need to move past systems that foster discrimination, elitism and privilege. These attitudes carry forward well beyond college years and have negative consequences for the country as a whole.
4
If college administrators didn't all vanish from campus at dinner time they'd see what actually goes on. As it is, they deny knowing that underage drinking, hazing, loud parties, substance abuse, and dangerous activities are common occurrences in the frat houses. I'm so proud that my kids (two PhDs and a medical doctor) never joined a frat - in fact they hated them, and they hated the binge drinking that went on at the parties. In spite of that they had fun social lives and made lifetime friends in college.
2
Just another example of how colleges and universities have given into the marketing pressures to see higher education as a sort of festival of post-pubescent experience rather than the academic journey it is meant to be. From building sports programs staffed with professional athletes masquerading as students to supporting and tolerating Greek Bacchanalia as part of the school's social fabric, college presidents and the passive faculties have contributed to the cheapening of the college experience. That cheapening includes sexual assault and the occasional "regrettable death." I can't imagine that the college president, facing the grieving parent, doesn't on some level know they are responsible too.
2
While we did our share of drinking I never remember drinking or sexual assaults being part of fraternity hazing two decades ago. The worst that happened to me was to be kidnaped from a movie theater and chained to the bleachers on the football field one cold winter night - we retaliated by kidnapping the pledge masetr and dropping him off naked in a conservative small town.
Seems quant next to alcohol poisoning. Surely that's what prosecution is for - to deter dangerous anti-social behavior. The threat of going to prison and ruining your life will eventually discourage such simple minded pursuits.
Seems quant next to alcohol poisoning. Surely that's what prosecution is for - to deter dangerous anti-social behavior. The threat of going to prison and ruining your life will eventually discourage such simple minded pursuits.
People don't understand how this continues, because they don't understand the power of alumni. Every time a university moves to discipline a house, alumni will ring the phones off their hooks complaining the administration is "too hard" on the poor kids, and threatening their large contributions which keep the place afloat. Fraternities, sports teams -- these things matter because of money. And as state governments reduce their contributions to higher education, schools look to donors.
The Atlantic wrote all about this, "The Dark Power of Fraternities."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/03/the-dark-power-of-f...
The Atlantic wrote all about this, "The Dark Power of Fraternities."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/03/the-dark-power-of-f...
124
The key is quite simple: sue the national fraternity and sue hard and long.
When are American universities and colleges going to wake-up from their alcoholic haze and eliminate the Greek system.
In this case, we have one boy dead and we have several exposed to criminal charges of which they should be found guilty. But, regardless of those criminal charges, you know the family of the dead boy is going to sue everybody and his mother-in-law in civil court over wrongful deaths.
The Greek system simply makes no sense in the modern world:
1. Universities gain nothing but legal exposure such as this from the Greek system.
2. Students don't gain anything anymore from the Greek system that they had in the past. The "Networking Advantage" that the Greek system provided for generations has been replaced by social media and accessible data banks. Potential employers know everything about you before you do and if they are interested in you, they come calling.
3. The Greek system does nothing to promote a better and more informed worldview to its members. Instead, it celebrates and maintains immaturity and irresponsibility if not outright hostility and contempt toward other groups such as women, minorities, foreigners, et c.
The Greek system is like Confederate statues and flags - a celebration and legacy of bad ideas that need to be relegated to the scrapheap of history. Jim and Evelyn Piazza know that now having just graduated from the College of Hard Knocks.
In this case, we have one boy dead and we have several exposed to criminal charges of which they should be found guilty. But, regardless of those criminal charges, you know the family of the dead boy is going to sue everybody and his mother-in-law in civil court over wrongful deaths.
The Greek system simply makes no sense in the modern world:
1. Universities gain nothing but legal exposure such as this from the Greek system.
2. Students don't gain anything anymore from the Greek system that they had in the past. The "Networking Advantage" that the Greek system provided for generations has been replaced by social media and accessible data banks. Potential employers know everything about you before you do and if they are interested in you, they come calling.
3. The Greek system does nothing to promote a better and more informed worldview to its members. Instead, it celebrates and maintains immaturity and irresponsibility if not outright hostility and contempt toward other groups such as women, minorities, foreigners, et c.
The Greek system is like Confederate statues and flags - a celebration and legacy of bad ideas that need to be relegated to the scrapheap of history. Jim and Evelyn Piazza know that now having just graduated from the College of Hard Knocks.
223
Apparently you don't really understand the nature of the Greek System and how is used to operate. College men and women don't enter a greek fraternity in order to gain world knowledge or networking and the university legal exposure is no worse than any other organization....
One of the primary engines of the greek system was to provide an environment where young people could live, eat, socialize and make lifelong friends...if you hadn't know noticed, many university bands have had the same "hazing and drinking" problems as fraternities...are college bands also like confederate flags, a celebration of bad ideas".
Like many organizations of old...a student was asked to make a commitment and to endure a "hazing" ritual to enter.......the process was designed to create pride in the organization and to help form a closer bond of friendship between ones pledge class....where is was the norm that these would be the friends many would carry through their college years and beyond.
Unfortunately, as with many things today...the situation has gotten out of control......on both sides, because 1 or 2 students out of 100's didn't like to be hazed, they turned the fraternities in and created an environment of distrust and dislike from officials and people like yourself....Fraternities nowadays seem more focused on cruelty and extreme drinking rather than on a more structured ignition process...causing horrific results like Penn State..
One of the primary engines of the greek system was to provide an environment where young people could live, eat, socialize and make lifelong friends...if you hadn't know noticed, many university bands have had the same "hazing and drinking" problems as fraternities...are college bands also like confederate flags, a celebration of bad ideas".
Like many organizations of old...a student was asked to make a commitment and to endure a "hazing" ritual to enter.......the process was designed to create pride in the organization and to help form a closer bond of friendship between ones pledge class....where is was the norm that these would be the friends many would carry through their college years and beyond.
Unfortunately, as with many things today...the situation has gotten out of control......on both sides, because 1 or 2 students out of 100's didn't like to be hazed, they turned the fraternities in and created an environment of distrust and dislike from officials and people like yourself....Fraternities nowadays seem more focused on cruelty and extreme drinking rather than on a more structured ignition process...causing horrific results like Penn State..
This is entirely about young men with no sense of responsibility. They should live their lives in shame along with their parents who apparently lacked the ability to model appropriate behavior. Combine that with the lack of oversight at the University level. You are correct but I put the blame on their parents.
Oh, please. Delta Chi at Michigan State stopped the hazing (that I went through)...in the mid-seventies. We had black, Latino, Asian, and Hawaiian brothers...in the mid-seventies. And I would match their current philanthropic activities to anything the dorm rats do.
We also didn't have the total nanny state atmosphere that permeates college life now, stunts responsibility sand social growth, and makes In Loco Parentis seem free-wheeling. Plenty of hard partying but I can't envision a single instance of not looking out after our fellow Brothers. This story is real head-scratcher.
Condolences to the Piazza family.
We also didn't have the total nanny state atmosphere that permeates college life now, stunts responsibility sand social growth, and makes In Loco Parentis seem free-wheeling. Plenty of hard partying but I can't envision a single instance of not looking out after our fellow Brothers. This story is real head-scratcher.
Condolences to the Piazza family.
Commenters who somehow believe that universities are responsible for policing what goes on at fraternity & sorority events must never have been on a large campus. Local chapters for many of these national "greek" organizations have their houses entirely off-campus, where the university has no more authority than it does on nearby faculty homes. Even if universities pull their charters, they would likely just continue to exist underground.
The answer is no tolerance, full prosecution and expulsion of anyone involved in these behaviors.
The answer is no tolerance, full prosecution and expulsion of anyone involved in these behaviors.
80
Attending these schools is not a right. Admission needs to come with a general conduct clause. Unacceptable behaviors, no matter on, or off-campus or at home on Christmas break would result in expulsion. That would include membership in "secret" underground off-campus fraternal organizations. Full stop.
1
I am amazed that universities, the home of academics and learning, support systems that any social psychologists in their employment would describe as toxic structures for the health and well-being of the young people they are charged with educating. Having been in a fraternity myself, I understand the pressure that alumni can bring on maintaining these letal social structures---but, on any level of social/psychological structures fraternal organizations are designed for these types of tragedies to happen, along with a whole array of other bad outcomes--- rape being another one. Yet, few if any university presidents has the courage to band organizations that all have the potential to do great harm to students. Sadly, when watching some promotional tapes for universities---my grandson is beginning the process---fraternal life, food courts, spas, gyms, swimming pools, etc.--appear to be the big selling point, with a casual mention of a "strong academic program" at the end of the tape.
37
about time.
7
Well past time.
1
"While a few colleges had changed, most were unwilling to alienate alumni donors who belonged to fraternities"
So the deaths are basically sacrifices on the altar of alumni donations?
Then the solution is clearly to sue the school each time this happens for an amount that would nullify the benefit of said donation.
So the deaths are basically sacrifices on the altar of alumni donations?
Then the solution is clearly to sue the school each time this happens for an amount that would nullify the benefit of said donation.
68
Or maybe we should properly fund our schools so they don't need the donations???????
5
“It could mean the end of Greek life at Penn State”.
Can someone explain to me exactly what the "Greek life" is and what exactly is the purpose and importance of a fraternity (and sorority) in the overall college and university experience?
Can someone explain to me exactly what the "Greek life" is and what exactly is the purpose and importance of a fraternity (and sorority) in the overall college and university experience?
47
They give kids a place to belong in a school like this with over 45,000 students on 1 campus. In the past the Greek system spent a lot of time and effort on charitable work. Parties were always present, but didn't seem to be the only focus. Condemning all fraternity members for this kind of situation is no different than blaming an entire race for the actions of a few. With that said, they certainly seem to be the architects of their own demise at this point.
1
Well.... since you asked....
For one thing, from a practical standpoint, fraternities provide definitive party locations and times that are well-known by the authorities, who are entitled and in fact tasked with regularly monitoring said parties. Many times these parties are forbidden from having hard alcohol and can only serve beer, and sober monitors are mandatory and strictly enforced. We severed a brother who broke this rule. If fraternities did not exist, college students wouldn't just stay home and study every night. They would find, for example, a random dark basement in somebody's off-campus townhouse, with no oversight, no rules, and no knowledge on the part of the authorities that the party is even occurring, let alone where. Terrible things have happened at frat parties - but worse things have happened at underground off-campus parties.
I won't bother going into the camaraderie or friendships formed that many find priceless. Nor the fact that many fraternities and sororities have loose affiliations with particular clubs and sports, so like-minded members are able to live, work, and play together, and help maintain focus and a regimen specific to their extracurricular endeavor. Personally, I did not figure out time management and personal responsibility, outside my parents telling me what to do, until I joined a fraternity. My fraternity had over 10 fellow engineers - we had daily library trips. We had a self-governing judicial board and a strong philanthropy chair - today I'm an attorney and am very involved in my community. But assuming these concerns are all valueless to you, see paragraph 1.
Note: I (obviously) did not attend Penn State, and can't speak for anything or anyone there. I can only assume they toast a portrait of JoePa before performing an elephant walk. But that is most definitely not the experience everywhere.
For one thing, from a practical standpoint, fraternities provide definitive party locations and times that are well-known by the authorities, who are entitled and in fact tasked with regularly monitoring said parties. Many times these parties are forbidden from having hard alcohol and can only serve beer, and sober monitors are mandatory and strictly enforced. We severed a brother who broke this rule. If fraternities did not exist, college students wouldn't just stay home and study every night. They would find, for example, a random dark basement in somebody's off-campus townhouse, with no oversight, no rules, and no knowledge on the part of the authorities that the party is even occurring, let alone where. Terrible things have happened at frat parties - but worse things have happened at underground off-campus parties.
I won't bother going into the camaraderie or friendships formed that many find priceless. Nor the fact that many fraternities and sororities have loose affiliations with particular clubs and sports, so like-minded members are able to live, work, and play together, and help maintain focus and a regimen specific to their extracurricular endeavor. Personally, I did not figure out time management and personal responsibility, outside my parents telling me what to do, until I joined a fraternity. My fraternity had over 10 fellow engineers - we had daily library trips. We had a self-governing judicial board and a strong philanthropy chair - today I'm an attorney and am very involved in my community. But assuming these concerns are all valueless to you, see paragraph 1.
Note: I (obviously) did not attend Penn State, and can't speak for anything or anyone there. I can only assume they toast a portrait of JoePa before performing an elephant walk. But that is most definitely not the experience everywhere.
Drunken hazing will continue at fraternities nationwide---these stories never change.
6
Not if these dangerous and immoral hazing rituals are criminalized.
2
I'm probably the only one who advocates this, but it's time to lower the drinking age to 19. These problems happen when the only option to let go is to binge drink in your room or on campus. Time to treat students as adults. Time to let the law adjust a little way toward reality. Time to stop turning a blind eye.
109
you are not : all the human activities needed to be learned, nothing is innate, drinking is not a exception.
14
I agree wholeheartedly. In my experience Freshman Year, the kids that had been exposed to alcohol before college in safe and responsible environments were SIGNIFICANTLY less likely to engage in binge drinking activities that would be considered dangerous. Make alcohol less of a taboo and the culture surrounding it will become safer, since it won't feel like breaking the rules when you drink it.
2
Since the drinking age was raised to 21 under Reagan, there are 750 fewer deaths on the highways each and every year. Are you willing to sacrifice your loved one to lowering the drinking age? I'm not. The answer is a cultural change, not making the roads dangerous as they once were.
And the only thing you are "teaching" when you introduce alcohol to impressionable teenagers with still-developing minds is that fun and alcohol have to go together. Please do your research before repeating traditional scripts. Thank you and I wish you and your family a safe and tragedy-free life.
And the only thing you are "teaching" when you introduce alcohol to impressionable teenagers with still-developing minds is that fun and alcohol have to go together. Please do your research before repeating traditional scripts. Thank you and I wish you and your family a safe and tragedy-free life.
4
The story of this young man's death has haunted me since I first read about it several months ago. I have two college-aged daughters and am not so naive to think that there are colleges out there where kids don't drink. What is so striking to me, however, is the apparent culture at Penn State that allowed this to happen. Taking measures to cut back on the availability of alcohol at fraternities and sororities may help slightly in the short term, but there seems to be larger, more significant problem here. I hope the University leadership takes this opportunity to work with students to foster an environment where they all feel a responsibility to take care of each other.
99
Agree that there is a larger more significant problem here-- its called parenting. Too many pre-teenagers, teenagers, and young adults are not given the knowledge, confidence, self-esteem, and value system that allows them to address the challenges they will face attending university far from home. The immaturity of those that fall victim to this culture (sorry) and those who perpetrate it is rooted in their adolescence and the failure of their parents and secondary schools to produce mature responsible young adults.
Yes. Where is it written that fraternity life gives permission to break all the rules? What justifies it as a bona fide acting out of adolescence, the last hurrah of irresponsible high school years? Sad that someone has to die before adults in our society, their positions of authority camouflaging their own irresponsibility, can let go of our cultural romanticizing of youth and wake up to their role in forming the future adults of the country. Less privileged Americans at 19 and 20 are dying on foreign battlefields.
1
It should be obvious to any journalist that someone, meaning a big corporation, is making money from alcohol sales in college towns. Towns also receive sales tax revenue from alcohol.
Follow the money.
Follow the money.
In that us nerds have known forever about how cruel the type of person who wants to be a frat brother often is, it still is a surprise when anyone is surprised by their actions.
217
Nicely put! What is the draw??? I will never get it, but have never felt the need to "belong" either.
by nerds...are you including yourself in with those oh so nice young men working in the video game industry that have been bullying and threatening women in the industry for years? Note...they are not frat boys.
1
The sad part is they stay insular and a bit mean, after university. The same goes for sororities.
"While a few colleges had changed, most were unwilling to alienate alumni donors who belonged to fraternities." Once again in our dystopiean culture money talks and humanity looses, not to mention education. Fraternity hazing is the little brother of football and basketball frenzy, where the real college money lies.
103
Maybe students should be offered first aid and CPR training to be better aware of when to call the ambulance. What I've learned is that you call 911 if somebody is "unresponsive", which this poor man was.
Training will not stop the bad guys from trying to keep you from calling 911, but it might give you more clarity in your mind to dial 911 in spite of bad guys threatening you.
These frat men are still thinking of themselves as wee little children who don't need to take responsibility for their actions, while at the same time they murder through alcohol poisoning and looking the other way when somebody needs an ambulance.
Training will not stop the bad guys from trying to keep you from calling 911, but it might give you more clarity in your mind to dial 911 in spite of bad guys threatening you.
These frat men are still thinking of themselves as wee little children who don't need to take responsibility for their actions, while at the same time they murder through alcohol poisoning and looking the other way when somebody needs an ambulance.
26
My son drank too much at a college (with no fraternities) last fall, just weeks into his freshman year. His friends called 911. So he was embarrassed but alive. College kids are smart enough to know when to call 911 - as long as they are not more concerned about getting in trouble themselves (aka as long as they are not completely immature and selfish).
4
Don't tell me that none of those frat "brothers" was certified. THEY DIDN'T CARE
Thee solution to criminal behavior by students at frat houses is with the parents: TAKE YOUR SON OUT OF THAT SCHOOL!
Recent medical studies indicate the human brain isn't fully developed until the mid 20s; if excessive alcohol consumption affects the judgement of adults imagine what it does to a mind barely out of childhood.
The 'frat bros' may eventually provide a connection to possible future employment, but how much education can a young person obtain while fighting off a hangover? How proud will you be of your son when he's facing criminal charges in a hazing incident?
Recent medical studies indicate the human brain isn't fully developed until the mid 20s; if excessive alcohol consumption affects the judgement of adults imagine what it does to a mind barely out of childhood.
The 'frat bros' may eventually provide a connection to possible future employment, but how much education can a young person obtain while fighting off a hangover? How proud will you be of your son when he's facing criminal charges in a hazing incident?
24
This is a state school. How can it be that school and state officials choose to remain ignorant of what occurs at these fraternities, after all that has transpired at PSU? And how can the national fraternity organizations remain complicit in hazing, which they undoubtedly know occurs? Until the top levels of these organizations feel the (litigation/prosecution) pain, don't expect any real changes.
52
PSU is state-affiliated, not a state school. In Pennsylvania, the state government has very little say in how higher education institutions do business. They can revoke funding but Greek life is a small percentage of students, and most don't need grant dollars to continue their education. It only would hurt students who need it. It all comes down to governing boards placing restrictions on Greek life. At PSU, sororities live in dorms and we don't see this kind of behavior. I think this should signal the end of Greek housing, for starters.
That being said, there should be a lot of pressure on the national Greek umbrella orgs to hand down sanctions.
That being said, there should be a lot of pressure on the national Greek umbrella orgs to hand down sanctions.
Actually, Penn State is only a state-related university, and a large portion of the funding comes from donors, not the Commonwealth of PA (unlike universities such as Bloomsburg, which are truly state-funded). Learned this when I went to an information session to be a student fundraiser for the LionLine, which solicits donation from alumni. From the wikipedia entry: "Penn State is a 'state-related' university, part of Pennsylvania's Commonwealth System of Higher Education. As such, although it receives funding from the Commonwealth and is connected to the state through its board of trustees, it is otherwise independent and not subject to the state's direct control."
Just a wild guess ...but perhaps because the culture these kids grew up in and were conditioned by, think of these behaviors as 'normal, cool, 'boys will just be boys'.
It is I fear, unfortunately, the same culture that today just set up an all male panel to consider the health of every American:
"The lineup assembled by Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky to draft language for a new health care law excludes women and moderates..."
A few years ago, I went to Michigan U to visit my grand daughter. Her dorm was (surprisingly) lacking beauty and warmth, littered with alcohol bottles ( garbage pails spilling over, liquor bottles littering the grounds and lined up like trophies or soldiers on dusty high shelves in homage to drinking.
My grandchild comes from an upper middle class, very well off loving, wonderful home. That madhouse of a football weekend - ambulances arriving to fetch drunk young men who fell, bleeding, other drunk kids laying on the grass unconscious... and it all considered no big deal by everyone around me.
It takes a lot to faze me, a world weary hippy Mom, but I left feeling worried about my grand daughter.
It felt shocking, dismaying and indicative of damaged egos and a very troubled society.
It is I fear, unfortunately, the same culture that today just set up an all male panel to consider the health of every American:
"The lineup assembled by Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky to draft language for a new health care law excludes women and moderates..."
A few years ago, I went to Michigan U to visit my grand daughter. Her dorm was (surprisingly) lacking beauty and warmth, littered with alcohol bottles ( garbage pails spilling over, liquor bottles littering the grounds and lined up like trophies or soldiers on dusty high shelves in homage to drinking.
My grandchild comes from an upper middle class, very well off loving, wonderful home. That madhouse of a football weekend - ambulances arriving to fetch drunk young men who fell, bleeding, other drunk kids laying on the grass unconscious... and it all considered no big deal by everyone around me.
It takes a lot to faze me, a world weary hippy Mom, but I left feeling worried about my grand daughter.
It felt shocking, dismaying and indicative of damaged egos and a very troubled society.
5
so what will 'motivate' underage kids from drinking on college campuses? a total 'zero tolerance' commitment from administrators regarding the issue--anyone caught underage drinking, or supplying alcohol to underage drinkers, period.
sure, a few 'innocent' kids will be expelled at first, but nothing less encourages these kids to constantly try to circumvent the rules.
sure, a few 'innocent' kids will be expelled at first, but nothing less encourages these kids to constantly try to circumvent the rules.
3
As I understand the facts, the prosecutors in this Penn State death had a great deal of help from the fraternity members in order to bring the charges: the men had texted each other about the serious condition of the man who died, the amount he drank, how long his fall was down the stairs, and then texted their decision to wait until morning to see if he revived on his own before calling for medical help. They texted their understanding of the potential severity of his condition and his need for a doctor -- and did nothing about it. This one was hard for authorities to ignore. Let's not give them too much credit for finally acting.
367
Don't give any credit to the fraternity members for texting about the situation. The texts were likely about how they could cover up their reprehensible behavior. They knew that they had been wrong at the time they "backpacked" the victim instead of calling 911 or taking him to an emergency room. I hope Penn State kicks all of these participants out of college immediately rather than waiting for their prosecutions!
3
It is the fraternity and the 'brothers' that should be held liable. They did not act, they could have saved his life. I've never understood hazing. Guess it's a 'guy thing,' but then I've heard that sororities haze as well.
2
Yes, we're seeing how this critical college training plays out with "Healthcare" policy and its makers in Congress - "let's see if maybe they can live if we don't do anything". And we are "appalled" at the outcome.
1
It's a shame that this bully mentality continues to exist at Penn State. Don't send your children to Penn State. If you graduated from there, ask for your money back. Penn State's continued support of bullies will tarnish your education and devalue your degree.
75
this is over exaggeration. I graduated with honors from there from one of the nation s best English lit programs. The quality of the faculty has never been less than excellent. It is a huge mega university. to speak of students there in such mega macho, naieve terms is preposterous. although the place now crawls with Trumpers.
14
The academics may be excellent, but the first thing I think of when I think of Penn State is pedophile rape (and now death from hazing).
3
You graduated from "there", from "one of the nation s best" English programs and still write "over exaggeration"? You, are rather "naieve".
The culprit is not fraternity culture (or sorority or band or...), but rather the broad culture of young adults and what happens when society makes clumsy attempts to suppress it. I believe that raising the drinking age forces experimental behavior underground where it is much harder to control. Moreover, rathceting up the saction for involvement inhibits proper responses like calling 911 the minute this student had his first fall. We cannot legislate tragedy our of existence. Rather we have to engage young adults less as 'young' and more as 'adults'. If we insist on looking the other way, we do not see when they are in trouble and at times only once its too late.
27
when I went there bullies beat up guys with Beatles haircuts. the SDS was rampant. there were militant rebels who challenged the old guard but a climate of peace, love & inclusive. this existed simultaneously with the fraternities & their feelings of entitlement. this morphed now into plaguers & anti intellectual millennial money worshippers. like any university one will see the best & worst of the assertive, impatient young. weren't the 50s shocked by Elvis?
2
We need to describe these criminals as adults, rather than "frat boys". Lowering the drinking age is besides the point.
Perhaps the problem is our society's promotion of unfit authority figures, from the so-called president on down. Why should college students feel compelled to follow rules of decency or actual laws when the Trump administration proudly flouts them?
My father dropped dead of a heart attack at 54 and when I turned his age I too suffered an almost similar fate and had triple bypass surgery after going code blue during an angioplasty procedure at the hospital. I've survived that kill zone time for men in their 50's and it's been quite the ordeal but nowhere near as frightening as sending my two sons off to college and the shenanigans that seem to go on nightly.
My youngest son, a big strapping football player broke his ankle falling down a long flight of stairs at U of Wisconsin school, or at least that was the original story, but he has since fessed up that he and his friends were quite drunk and did something on a date. While my other son was given his own apartment to finish off the year after his roommates ganged up on him in a fist fight over a bedroom light bulb that was left on while he was at his girlfriends apartment over a long weekend. I doubt we will ever get the true story out of him, but hope and pray my sons don't get into anymore dangerous situations because of peer pressure from being on their own for the first time in college. My heart goes out to those parents who just lost their son. It will be years before they get over the loss, if ever.
My youngest son, a big strapping football player broke his ankle falling down a long flight of stairs at U of Wisconsin school, or at least that was the original story, but he has since fessed up that he and his friends were quite drunk and did something on a date. While my other son was given his own apartment to finish off the year after his roommates ganged up on him in a fist fight over a bedroom light bulb that was left on while he was at his girlfriends apartment over a long weekend. I doubt we will ever get the true story out of him, but hope and pray my sons don't get into anymore dangerous situations because of peer pressure from being on their own for the first time in college. My heart goes out to those parents who just lost their son. It will be years before they get over the loss, if ever.
50
having been a university professor for over 3 decades I sympathize with this concerned Dad. When I left for the day after lecturing I was happy these kids weren't mine to worry about. The idea of them clubbing in Manhattan half or totally anebriated & their fearless devil may care attitude is scary. I must say though they all loved their parents and gave them credit for all the good parts.
5
Dramaman, if your students were "anebriated" I hope you were not a professor of English.
1
These fraternities are not living off the grid. They are well aware of the dangers of hazing. They continue to haze.
128
it is the zoned out numbing effect of post cyber. they are impassive as they are living in a fear culture devoid of spirituality. thus they go to extremes to feel and experience anything.
4
@dramaman: I saw and heard about the deplorable frat/sorority mess at PSU in 1965 when doing a PhD there. That was long before cyber-times.
Every spring PSU's groups had a Carnival: a hundred floats with barely-dressed, nubile "sisters", many half-lit, entertaining large crowds with burlesque dancing and "brothers" acted out XX skits. Food was fresh and often fine. But the show was primarily adolescent and sexist, although some singing, dancing, and skits were excellent. I always left "mildly nauseated" by the tastelessness of much I saw. Btw,the university had a fine library, world-famous profs, and my grad education was topnotch, but the frat life, like the football insanity, never seemed worth a penny. The continued love of Joe Paterno as Papa" suggests a moral, ethical, and legal vacuum still exists there. The state went for Trump.
Every spring PSU's groups had a Carnival: a hundred floats with barely-dressed, nubile "sisters", many half-lit, entertaining large crowds with burlesque dancing and "brothers" acted out XX skits. Food was fresh and often fine. But the show was primarily adolescent and sexist, although some singing, dancing, and skits were excellent. I always left "mildly nauseated" by the tastelessness of much I saw. Btw,the university had a fine library, world-famous profs, and my grad education was topnotch, but the frat life, like the football insanity, never seemed worth a penny. The continued love of Joe Paterno as Papa" suggests a moral, ethical, and legal vacuum still exists there. The state went for Trump.
Dramaman, this was going on when I was in college almost two generations ago, when our only computer took up an entire room and students weren't allowed to touch it.
2