Mao- simultaneously the greatest mobilizer of all time AND possibly the worst leader? His programs were disastrous - unworthy of a statue. SAD!
1
Who knows maybe Communists and Mao love Jesus in the afterlife. Maybe that is why this happened in Mao's home town.
No scholar here, so it came as a surprise any churches exist and even that religious worship is allowed anywhere in China.
None the less 100,000 followers is a small fraction of the population and for all intent and purpose cannot be considered as more than a cult. No wonder the nation controls the Far East and is poised to take on the world.
Separation of church and state seems to work in their people's favor.
Clear thinking.
None the less 100,000 followers is a small fraction of the population and for all intent and purpose cannot be considered as more than a cult. No wonder the nation controls the Far East and is poised to take on the world.
Separation of church and state seems to work in their people's favor.
Clear thinking.
This article seems to suggest a false dichotomy fallacy. Which is better/worse, religious oppression or totalitarianism?
Enlightened that the state apparatus would support the building of a Christian church. For those who do not know, the towering steeple symbolizes the urging of efforts by mortal men and women to reach the divine virtues of heaven through a life of service by performing acts of mercy and obedience to moral laws--the steeple reminds all of the difficulty and worthiness of the challenge and the awe of heaven. Whatever one thinks about religion, it is certain that the life of Christ, symbolized by the cross on which he died, was a life of morality and of teaching that put service first--a healthy principle for any society and one which does not contradict the foundations of the society which Mao sought for China. Those enlightened can see more harmony than conflict in the teachings of the church and ideas of the founder of the modern Chinese state!
1
• But on the streets of Changsha, the capital of Hunan Province, residents seem to know or care little about the clash of Christianity and Communism in their midst. Asked about it, several people shrugged....
I'm with the 'shruggers', the only way to deal with religion: shrug and walk away.
I'm with the 'shruggers', the only way to deal with religion: shrug and walk away.
1
This is a needle in the haystack.
The vast majority of Chinese people I meet are non-ideological, optimistic about their future and primarily focused on their economic well-being and children's education.
There are many real issues the NYT isn't reporting. I look forward to the time where the Editorial Board overcomes its political bias and starts real reporting on China.
The vast majority of Chinese people I meet are non-ideological, optimistic about their future and primarily focused on their economic well-being and children's education.
There are many real issues the NYT isn't reporting. I look forward to the time where the Editorial Board overcomes its political bias and starts real reporting on China.
3
A nice report on Changsha –Long Sand—referring to the island in the Xiang. Mao’s quote on the warrior quality of the Xiang people is likely correct as they were historically in constant battles with others to the North or South and many of the founders of the CP were of Hunan origin, and yes the cooks starts any dish by chopping the red and the green peppers.
Have an American friend that was born in Mao’s village and his mother told him never to marry a Hunan woman, nothing but trouble. He must have listened as his wife is from Hawaii. Mao’s imagery heavy here – local boy did good – but fades as you move away that is noticeable. The church may loose its cross, seems to be the current favorite response provoked by someone somewhere up there.
Have an American friend that was born in Mao’s village and his mother told him never to marry a Hunan woman, nothing but trouble. He must have listened as his wife is from Hawaii. Mao’s imagery heavy here – local boy did good – but fades as you move away that is noticeable. The church may loose its cross, seems to be the current favorite response provoked by someone somewhere up there.
2
By and large, you are only allowed one religion in China today and that worshiping Mao.
2
Wrong again there are many, some western some eastern and Mao while on the currency is probably only a subject for the older people who still debate his virtue or vice or both.
1
Buildings being taller than statues is pretty normal. Maybe someone should tell these Mao fans.
9
Anyone who has a chance to travel and spend some time in Hong Kong, Taiwan and any major China city can't help but notice how colonial brainwashing impact a population. British colonial rule of Hong Kong for several decades brought Christian missionaries. Today one cannot escape the signs of Christian named schools blanketing the entire former colony, from kindergarten to college. It is a completely different picture in Taiwan and inside China. Despite the fact that for a certain period Chiang Kai-shek and his wife, who was the daughter of former Methodist missionary, welcome American patronage and missionaries, there are not many overt signs of Christian schools in Taiwan. And there is even less signs of Christian schools inside China. As a Canadian, one can't help but connect this observation to Canada's scandalous Indian residential school system which tried to erase the native population's languages and culture. Thus this story is quite disturbing. How could the Chinese government allow this to happen? Some local officials have a lot to answer for.
4
This Canadian detects a certain ideological cant in your comment.
That the 19th and early 20th Century missionizing of Christian clerics occurred in a broader context of European imperialism and misbehaviour in China is a historic fact. But to claim that those in China who wish to practise Christianity today are somehow still dupes of foreign imperialists, as you have done, is nothing short of laughable (and a touch xenophobic, as well).
As for your attempt to liken what is happening today in Changsha (a reflowering of religious beliefs, coupled with a deep scepticism of the Communist Party as it is under Xi Jinping) to the horror that was the residential school system (and the racist policies underlying it), I can only say that you should be ashamed.
To do what you've done is to misrepresent the situation in Changsha and trivialize (and exploit) the suffering of generations of indigenous Canadians.
Badly done.
That the 19th and early 20th Century missionizing of Christian clerics occurred in a broader context of European imperialism and misbehaviour in China is a historic fact. But to claim that those in China who wish to practise Christianity today are somehow still dupes of foreign imperialists, as you have done, is nothing short of laughable (and a touch xenophobic, as well).
As for your attempt to liken what is happening today in Changsha (a reflowering of religious beliefs, coupled with a deep scepticism of the Communist Party as it is under Xi Jinping) to the horror that was the residential school system (and the racist policies underlying it), I can only say that you should be ashamed.
To do what you've done is to misrepresent the situation in Changsha and trivialize (and exploit) the suffering of generations of indigenous Canadians.
Badly done.
9
What is missing is a full picture of the church showing its height in context with its surroundings.
8
Mao was from the greatest murderers and tyrants in the history of mankind. Millions and millions died for his megalomaniac insanity.
Read about the Great Famine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
Read about torture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session
Only a matter of time before that statue of him joins the dung hill of history, same as happened to the statue of Stalin in his hometown:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/world/europe/26georgia.html
Read about the Great Famine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
Read about torture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session
Only a matter of time before that statue of him joins the dung hill of history, same as happened to the statue of Stalin in his hometown:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/world/europe/26georgia.html
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Not in defense of the Great Leap Forward – a Stalin inspired organization full of sycophants afraid to let the Chairman know things were amiss – but famine was common in China and the numbers save “Tombstone,” documenting the deaths of 36 million people are well criticized. As Edgar Snow reports a like number went down under Chiang Kai-shek Nationalist government. The official split for the CCP on Mao is 70/30.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao%27s_Great_Famine
See : Criticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao%27s_Great_Famine
See : Criticism
1
To compare China in the 1930s under Chiang and China in 1960 under Mao in pretty unfair. Another other things, Chiang never had control over the country and economy the way Mao did. Mao intentionally screwed up the economy in order to get more politcal control
4
Amy if you are interested in China as you seem to be you might enjoy reading Wealth and Power: China's Long March to the Twenty-first Century by Orville Schell, John Delury; a story of China’s rise from the poor man of Asia to the power house it is today. Lots of details on major thinkers and of course Mao and later.
And more details on Changsha as well.
And more details on Changsha as well.
China is different as I found out when I lived in China and Taiwan.
Mao may have murdered more Chinese than any other human being, worked to obliterate traditional Chinese culture during the Cultural Revolution, and set China back centuries but, as one university student told me in Tianjin, " He is our Jesus."
Whatever.
Today the worst things that are officially permitted to say about the Great Helmsman is that he is a human being and therefore made mistakes.
Sure.
The reality is China today is that nationalism is powerful stuff and Mao is part of that for those who want to use him to force others to follow their agendas. Same for Jesus. Agenda driven for many people.
Same old, same old.
Mao may have murdered more Chinese than any other human being, worked to obliterate traditional Chinese culture during the Cultural Revolution, and set China back centuries but, as one university student told me in Tianjin, " He is our Jesus."
Whatever.
Today the worst things that are officially permitted to say about the Great Helmsman is that he is a human being and therefore made mistakes.
Sure.
The reality is China today is that nationalism is powerful stuff and Mao is part of that for those who want to use him to force others to follow their agendas. Same for Jesus. Agenda driven for many people.
Same old, same old.
5
Sometimes I wonder about reality vs journalists coverage, I was recently in Tianjin, and went to Xikai Church (St. Joseph's), a beautiful church with many parishioners inside, I didn't get to go to mass but just sat there undisturbed.
Just the noise from construction outside.
Just the noise from construction outside.
China ramps up persecution of Christians and other religious groups, report finds
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02/28/china-ramps-up-persecution-chris...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02/28/china-ramps-up-persecution-chris...
1
The Cult of Mao should finally be dismantled by the Chinese Government.
He was of the most evil mass murderers of the 20th century.
He was responsible for more dead Chinese than any foreign power.
Worshiping tyrannical mass murderers, especially of one's own people, is unhealthy.
Please:
Take down the monuments. Get him out of Tiananmen Square.
Take him off the money.
The whole world, especially China, would benefit tremendously.
He was of the most evil mass murderers of the 20th century.
He was responsible for more dead Chinese than any foreign power.
Worshiping tyrannical mass murderers, especially of one's own people, is unhealthy.
Please:
Take down the monuments. Get him out of Tiananmen Square.
Take him off the money.
The whole world, especially China, would benefit tremendously.
9
This is soft-ball reporting. A better question would have been what the residents of Changsha think on the fact that Mao's Cultural Revolution and great Leap Forward kill millions of Chinese people.
8
@Amy
I know one old (89) man who ranks Mao as a total loss, but his son disagrees and thinks the 70/30 ranking is about right. Mao won the civil war defeating the nationalist who were U.S.A. supplied and supported until Truman finally ranked Chiang Kai-shek as the old fellow above did Mao. Does that help.
I know one old (89) man who ranks Mao as a total loss, but his son disagrees and thinks the 70/30 ranking is about right. Mao won the civil war defeating the nationalist who were U.S.A. supplied and supported until Truman finally ranked Chiang Kai-shek as the old fellow above did Mao. Does that help.
1