The one thing that stays the same is that we’ve got to get more people to buy insurance.
5
The Billionaire President has sent buses to pick up his repulsive Republicans for a celebration party in the Rose Garden. Meanwhile, back in the world of real people, if you're planning on having a child best try to get it done soon....pregnancy is now a pre-existing condition and the analysts are saying, an additional $18,000 to give birth. Cancer....$148,000. And drug dependency so where went all the concern for dealing with the opioid epidemic. Asthma, autism, diabetes, all on the rise bigly. Although it's sounding like the Senate will bounce this bill, it's still a day to lament: all republicans are jubilant, even those 20 or so who only voted no because their seats are at risk in 2018. Hit the phones, e-mails and the streets: a well-deserved trump trashing is in order.
26
They lose who always lose: poor, sick, elderly. Without mercy what will we become?
205
This title is misguiding: there are no winners and losers. Everybody loses here. For a few pieces of silver, the GOP has torn a few more threads from the social fabric that bond us together as a nation, some of them even holding their noses while doing it. In the long run, these actions set us on a course in which our society fractures from within, and everyone starts looking inward for the interests of whatever slice they might perceive to belong. I've seen this play before, from where I come from, unless you're in the tax bracket where you can afford a fleet of SUVs and the corresponding bodyguard crews for you and your kids, you are a loser.
225
The Republican House has just savaged the American people! This brutal bill they just barely passed was approved by only 17 percent of the populace and therefore is tantamount to tyranny of the most heinous kind.
192
GOP, party of greed.
126
This is very simplistic, but the Republican party doesn't care what they do to the the American health care system and how it affects people. They only care that they accomplished their goal of destroying Obamacare - one, because it carried Obama's name (even thought it's really the ACA) and two, because they want to dismantle everything Obama ever created - just because it's Obama. The Republicans are really pathetic.
256
Clearly, this is the "Republican Death Act" for those who are poorer, older or have chronic health issues. Born with a birth defect or disability to a less than wealthy family? Such a child will be handicapped for life as there will be no reasonable path to good health care while a child and only a long road of suffering to an untimely death as an adult, if majority is even achieved in such a life. Apparently the society we have elected to become says the health care a Barron Trump can get shall be unobtainable to most any other child. The lesson is, you gotta be born healthy and rich. That wasn't your good luck? Sad.
128
So I, as a large employer, can simply discontinue providing health insurance for those who work for me? Great! OK, Congress, you're on your own!
136
Well, it looks like it passed, now it's time to kill this thing in the Senate and target all the moderate Republicans, even the ones who voted no.
96
This bill is simply an attempt to gut any help for Americans on their health insurance. It is loaded with enough loopholes to let state zealots kill the gains Obamacare had made. They would have done this to the Social Security system back in the 30s if they could have. How long til 2018?
136
Recent scientific journals and cable networks reported "mostly plain bad luck" when diagnosed with cancer. Being super vigilant with a healthy lifesyle still places you in a moderate to high risk pool. The system is terribly broken. Can the senate wave a magic wand?
58
It makes me sick to see the smug grins and hear the triumphant crowing and see the good-ol'-boy shoving and jousting to get to the microphones and cameras to inflate themselves. The crowing by the Republicans as they cheered themselves on in their perfidy after pushing this monstrosity through makes me, like Comey, "mildly nauseous". No - it makes me really sick.
I cannot wait for the mid-terms, when we will exact retribution for this and turn some of that crowd out.
They care nothing for the lives they have impacted. It bothers them not a bit that the "losers" in this contract will live in fear until they die. All they care about is getting on in their careers and gathering more money, more status, more influence, more face time, more fame.
They will pay heartily in the mid-terms and the next election. Count on it. We have seen the enemy and they cannot hide their perfidy.
I cannot wait for the mid-terms, when we will exact retribution for this and turn some of that crowd out.
They care nothing for the lives they have impacted. It bothers them not a bit that the "losers" in this contract will live in fear until they die. All they care about is getting on in their careers and gathering more money, more status, more influence, more face time, more fame.
They will pay heartily in the mid-terms and the next election. Count on it. We have seen the enemy and they cannot hide their perfidy.
343
This is further proof that Congress consists of a group of folks who feed at the public trough while in office, continue to feed while in retirement, and get the best medical care in the world paid for by the masses. How are they supposed to feel anyone else's pain? Can anyone spell T-E-R-M L-I-M-I-T-S? Oh, that's right, the folks already in power would have to vote on it. Never mind!!!!
92
Let's make sure it doesn't get through the Senate.
94
You asked for it, you got it. Suffer.
58
From your companion article "Major Provisions of the Republican Health Care Bill:
The bill would cut the taxes of high-income people by nearly $300 billion over 10 years...... Medicaid cuts would total $880 billion over 10 years. So this enables the purchase of more luxury goods for the very most wealthy, more equipment for the military, and the rest us can just drop dead, or if we can pursue medical salvation, deplete our retirement savings, if we have any. Once again the Republicans show us they really are a predatory group of hucksters devoid of any moral standards. With Republicans in power, there is no social contract. There is no enlightened self-interest. There is no empathy. Were they all abused and morally deformed as children? What makes them so mean?
The bill would cut the taxes of high-income people by nearly $300 billion over 10 years...... Medicaid cuts would total $880 billion over 10 years. So this enables the purchase of more luxury goods for the very most wealthy, more equipment for the military, and the rest us can just drop dead, or if we can pursue medical salvation, deplete our retirement savings, if we have any. Once again the Republicans show us they really are a predatory group of hucksters devoid of any moral standards. With Republicans in power, there is no social contract. There is no enlightened self-interest. There is no empathy. Were they all abused and morally deformed as children? What makes them so mean?
185
I am young, healthy, and (relatively) well off - the three demographics who benefit most from this bill. But I cannot for the life of me understand who could support this bill; I certainly don't. At some point, we will all be old, unhealthy, and possibly poor. We all will need healthcare. But even if I don't need much healthcare, I am more than okay paying a few extra tax dollars to help my fellow citizens. At some point, "we're all in this together" sadly got replaced with "I got mine."
719
This bill has nothing to do with healthcare. The "R's" have never believed in providing affordable healthcare for the majority of people. This is about giving tax cuts to the people who keep them in office. If you read the details, the "R's" have even managed to carve out a portion which exempts them from being a part of this new bill.
201
The losers also include women. Now, pregnancy, sexual assault, domestic violence and postpartum depression will once again be considered pre-existing conditions. It's so hypocritical to have these so called representatives that value life so much, but they will deny contraception, the right to choose & now even insurance for pregnancy and delivery.
Also, I saw recently that the number of personal bankruptcies are way down since the ACA was implanted. More losers from this repeal.
Also, I saw recently that the number of personal bankruptcies are way down since the ACA was implanted. More losers from this repeal.
283
What a surprise. Republicans pushed through a bill that favors the rich and disfavors the poor. Imagine that.
244
While I see that this article is reporting facts, the very use of the words "winners and losers" is what is wrong with this country. Our entire nation - encouraged by and with modeling by the media and our dear leader -- acts as thought legislation and all of politics is one big game where some people "win" and oh to bad for the other - they're "losers." This is as childish as shouting USA USA during a war. Lives are at stake, the country as a cohesive social entity is at stake.
I call upon the NYT and other professionals to stop adding to the dysfunctional dystopia. People have facetiously called it Game of Thrones. But this isn't a joke. It isn't a game. It should never be about "one-up/one-down" "I got mine and too bad for you." Nor is it all about money and he who has the most wins. We should all want everyone to be winners. The only way to do that is through teamwork, cliché as that has become.
NYT writers/editors: Please make and announce a new policy to use words that don't set people apart. This could have been described and analyzed much more factually without those charged words.
I call upon the NYT and other professionals to stop adding to the dysfunctional dystopia. People have facetiously called it Game of Thrones. But this isn't a joke. It isn't a game. It should never be about "one-up/one-down" "I got mine and too bad for you." Nor is it all about money and he who has the most wins. We should all want everyone to be winners. The only way to do that is through teamwork, cliché as that has become.
NYT writers/editors: Please make and announce a new policy to use words that don't set people apart. This could have been described and analyzed much more factually without those charged words.
84
Disgraceful act by the House!!!
75
This bill doesn't hand a win to financially comfortable people without pre-existing conditions. That win is temporary, until they or their kids get sick, get hit by a car, or develop cancer, endocrine disorder or asthma because the EPA no longer protects the environment. Nobody is immune, and nobody wins.
146
Just keep calling it TRUMPCARE
154
This bill and the Republican shananigans to get it through should convince every American that the only way to solve this is Medicare for all. We have to elect the Congress that will make that happen.
99
OK, all you voters who stayed home because Hillary was so "corrupt" or who voted for Trump to "shake things up," hope you don't get sick!
286
Shameless - so mean spirited and so many middle, lower income people hurt, and they're to ones who vote these Republicans into office.
I'm talking about you 50 something white America. Go figure.
And with anything Republican/ GOP, the wealthy get a big tax break!, paid for by creating pain and suffering for middle, lower income people who don't have an army of lobbyist to protect them.
Yes that's you white America.
When will you stop voting against you and your family's own best interests?
Unbelievable and quite sad.
I'm talking about you 50 something white America. Go figure.
And with anything Republican/ GOP, the wealthy get a big tax break!, paid for by creating pain and suffering for middle, lower income people who don't have an army of lobbyist to protect them.
Yes that's you white America.
When will you stop voting against you and your family's own best interests?
Unbelievable and quite sad.
63
We ALL lose. This is a sad, sad reflection of the complete erosion of our moral values. I am ashamed that we go backwards as a society. It is utterly deplorable.
108
All Americans lose with this monstrosity; it just varies how much you lose. Lose your life, your house, your family, your dignity, your values - the GOP has ensured we're all losers.
64
and we in Euope will keep LAUGHING at you.
77
Am I the only one who wants to know what's the rush on voting on this bill?
Why can't we see the scoring on the CBO? Why haven't all the representatives read the bill, and gotten their staffers to parse it for them?It's too important, for too many citizens, to get this wrong.
Why can't we, as a country, do our collective homework and take the time to get this issue right? It just seems like business as usual for the House of Representatives, saying don't worry any problems will be fixed by the Senate.
Why? Can't the House get it right? Do they not have the capability? It's long past time for some bi-partisanship elements to grab control and head off this runaway train.
Why can't we see the scoring on the CBO? Why haven't all the representatives read the bill, and gotten their staffers to parse it for them?It's too important, for too many citizens, to get this wrong.
Why can't we, as a country, do our collective homework and take the time to get this issue right? It just seems like business as usual for the House of Representatives, saying don't worry any problems will be fixed by the Senate.
Why? Can't the House get it right? Do they not have the capability? It's long past time for some bi-partisanship elements to grab control and head off this runaway train.
59
My New Zealand friend had asked me: "Why wouldn't the richest nation want to make sure all of its citizens are healthy?"
My reply "Because Conservatives only care about profit, judge others mercilessly, and have no empathy for those who are different, and for those who have less."
She thought I was joking: "No, really, what's the reason?"
How many other people the world over are also searching for a logical explanation?
My reply "Because Conservatives only care about profit, judge others mercilessly, and have no empathy for those who are different, and for those who have less."
She thought I was joking: "No, really, what's the reason?"
How many other people the world over are also searching for a logical explanation?
234
As an American living in Bremen, Germany, I am continually amazed at how people who voted for Trump are still supporting the fatcats in the GOP while here my premiums are a small, small fraction of my income (and I was not a resident until after my high earning years were over. You people are stupid, stupid, stupid to fall for the way the GOP manipulates you to reject Obamacare. All my care is covered, EXCEPT for 10 Euros per day for hospital stays, and that includes 3 meals per day. So keep voting for these GOP fakers and we'll
94
Despite the additional taxes the rich have complained about under the ACA...
Surprise! The rich have gotten even richer over the last 7 years.
To cater to this segment at the expense of throwing 24 million people off of insurance is criminal.
Marie-Antoinette's "Let them eat cake" appears to be echoing forward...
and we all know how well that worked out for the French.
Surprise! The rich have gotten even richer over the last 7 years.
To cater to this segment at the expense of throwing 24 million people off of insurance is criminal.
Marie-Antoinette's "Let them eat cake" appears to be echoing forward...
and we all know how well that worked out for the French.
67
The fact that they exempted themselves and their own from this bill says all you need to know. They are willingly and knowingly voting to rip health care insurance and assistance away from millions of people who will no longer be able to afford coverage or the coverage they can afford will be worthless and just pure profit to whoever collects that money. In just a little over 100 days, the change of the U.S. to a country unrecognizable from all its glory days has been accomplished. How terribly terribly sad.
59
Oh how Christian of these Republicans.
82
Trumpcare is robbing from the poor to give to the rich. So much for providing folks with health conditions the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
49
Here come the Republican death panels.
53
We get what we deserve. Unless or until the unwashed masses rouse themselves from their video games and Facebook posts to protest the savage inequities in this country, this bill is only the beginning.
79
On a republican bill, do you really have to ask. The republicans only care about the ultra wealth and corporations and the in utero, if you are poor, middle class, a born child they could care less.
Born with a genetic heart defect, like Jimmy Kimmel discussed, well the Republicans think you should die and your family should go bankrupt. While they claim to be pro life, they are only pro birth. Once you are born you are on your own.
Born with a genetic heart defect, like Jimmy Kimmel discussed, well the Republicans think you should die and your family should go bankrupt. While they claim to be pro life, they are only pro birth. Once you are born you are on your own.
65
There are clearly a lot of ungrateful people in this country.
Beggars can't be choosers.
Beggars can't be choosers.
4
This is literally sickening.
26
If only the poor would stop being poor and the sick would stop being sick.
If they could just do that then the GOP healthcare plan would work perfectly!
If they could just do that then the GOP healthcare plan would work perfectly!
34
Insurance is supposed to cover events that might happen in the future, not events that have already happened. You can't buy fire insurance after your house has already burned down. Why should you be able to buy health insurance after you are sick? So, if you get sick, your insurance should end. It will make insurance cheaper for the young and healthy. If you are already sick, or you are old, your usefulness has expired. Everyone has to die someday.
7
Republican death panels.
26
GOP plan same as always, the wealthy deserve all the breaks because the donate the campaign $$. Money equals power. The poor get the crumbs. Middle class pays for everything.
29
The problem with "high risk pools" is that they tend to drown people.
36
This version seems just as noxious as the previous one. I can't see it passing the Senate in this form.
The celebratory announcement at the White House with the group photo op is baffling, as the plan is not law. The whole lot of them are delusional.
The celebratory announcement at the White House with the group photo op is baffling, as the plan is not law. The whole lot of them are delusional.
36
Just another day in the Trump Presidency that I feel hopeless and bereft.
39
What is wrong with this country? Every major country in the world has some form of national health insurance and we have to go to war among ourselves to get the pittance of ObamaCare passed. Now they want to get rid of even that. So much for good Christians.
Some Americans have already left. Who is going to work for those multi millionaires? Keep out foreigners and break the American workers.
Americans will be leaving America, their beloved country for foreign lands in order to be cared for. Some Americans have already left. Who is going to work for those multi millionaires? Keep out foreigners and break the American workers. Even Ecuador has less expensive and good health care. I have experienced it and some of my friends have also.
Good Bye America!
Some Americans have already left. Who is going to work for those multi millionaires? Keep out foreigners and break the American workers.
Americans will be leaving America, their beloved country for foreign lands in order to be cared for. Some Americans have already left. Who is going to work for those multi millionaires? Keep out foreigners and break the American workers. Even Ecuador has less expensive and good health care. I have experienced it and some of my friends have also.
Good Bye America!
41
yes it's a well known magic trick. You decrease federal spending and save the taxpayer tons of money, generally it goes to the rich and well to do. You pass on the costs of whatever it is to the states, who then decide if they want to fund that program or not. Whatever the decision, it is never as well funded because the states are hard pressed for money, and the poorest and less fortunate individuals end up with less or nothing.
That is the Republican success story. Finally the Federal Government is out of the taking care of people business. Less government controlling your life.
You now have greater freedom to be sick and destitute.
America has been made Great.
That is the Republican success story. Finally the Federal Government is out of the taking care of people business. Less government controlling your life.
You now have greater freedom to be sick and destitute.
America has been made Great.
44
One can only hope that today's vote will eventually -- think 2018 -- teach more than a few of the Republican Members of Congress who are currently high-fiveing and taking selfies in the Rose Garden the meaning of that very old phrase, "Foist on on'e own petard."
Whatever happens to the American health care system is now owned by the GOP. Whether this bill eventually succeeds or fails, depending upon Senate action and potential conference with the House, the future is now Trumpcare, Ryancare, or Freedomcare.
I can't wait to see how the CBO scores this travesty. I think that the 2018 mid-terms are really going to be interesting.
Whatever happens to the American health care system is now owned by the GOP. Whether this bill eventually succeeds or fails, depending upon Senate action and potential conference with the House, the future is now Trumpcare, Ryancare, or Freedomcare.
I can't wait to see how the CBO scores this travesty. I think that the 2018 mid-terms are really going to be interesting.
30
Basically this isn't health insurance it is a way to transfer money from healthy people to insurance companies while leaving more expensive insurance to sick people. This is based on knowing the person's medical history which really should be nobody's business but the patient and their healthcare providers. I hope this is the legal challenge to insurance the fact that they are violating my liberties by using my personal health history agnaist me. It is my body and my information there is no need for a non healthcare provider to have access to this information to use it deny me care from a healthcare provider.
31
The modern-day Republican party is about as gruesome as it gets.
33
Do I have this right? Did the House just vote to exempt themselves from the provisions of the new health care bill?
Wow, true bipartisanship! The must think "It's a real good bill (wink, wink, nod,nod)", if the want to exempt themselves.
Wow, true bipartisanship! The must think "It's a real good bill (wink, wink, nod,nod)", if the want to exempt themselves.
42
Indeed they did. This little fact should be the lead story on the evening news, every news website and newspaper. What hypocrites these Republican politicians are.
30
All well and good if this becomes the healthcare program that all legislators and government workers live with as well.....otherwise it is just another example of the hypocrisy of the Republican party and their actual total lack of concern for the poor and middle class in this country.
One question....will hospitals be refusing those with no insurance?
Shame on all that vote for this plan.
One question....will hospitals be refusing those with no insurance?
Shame on all that vote for this plan.
23
Not sure about hospitals being able to refuse care to the insured. But you can be sure that if this plan passes the senate many hospitals in poor rural areas (Trump country) will shut down.
16
Almost all, if not all, Republican members of Congress make over 200K, the threshold for the tax cut. Rarely is their self-serving, naked greed and indifference to the poor so evident. If this is a Christian government sign me up for Islam.
32
Oops, I probably should have waited to clear customs tomorrow before I wrote that one.
22
... and the bill exempts Congress.
25
I read this comment a while ago in the NYT and it really sums up my position. I read all this happy talk about how this will hurt the GOP in the polls, but then I am reminded of this:
"Don't get too excited over the disarray and opposition. If we learned anything from Wisconsin and Kansas, we learned that Republicans are going to do it anyway.
And don't get too excited in a few years, thinking people will start to see the error of their ways. They won't. Even when they realize that when grandma's savings run dry, there is no more Medicaid to pay the nursing home. Even when news stories start airing about kids with leukemia dying untreated. Even when people in their fifties start to lose their houses again over medical bills.
You know what I learned from Wisconsin and Kansas? People never blame themselves or their own stupid choices. They never admit that they were wrong or that they were duped. If someone else is getting hurt, they blame the victim. And when THEY are the victim, they blame whichever scary Other they are already predisposed to hate - so, liberal elites or welfare queens or illegals bleeding the system dry - pick your poison.
The worse things get, the more Red America will double down and blame the rest of us for their troubles. I'd be happy to let them reap what they sow, but for the fact that their bad policies affect all of us, and the worse their troubles get, the more dangerous they become to innocents in the groups they blame. "
"Don't get too excited over the disarray and opposition. If we learned anything from Wisconsin and Kansas, we learned that Republicans are going to do it anyway.
And don't get too excited in a few years, thinking people will start to see the error of their ways. They won't. Even when they realize that when grandma's savings run dry, there is no more Medicaid to pay the nursing home. Even when news stories start airing about kids with leukemia dying untreated. Even when people in their fifties start to lose their houses again over medical bills.
You know what I learned from Wisconsin and Kansas? People never blame themselves or their own stupid choices. They never admit that they were wrong or that they were duped. If someone else is getting hurt, they blame the victim. And when THEY are the victim, they blame whichever scary Other they are already predisposed to hate - so, liberal elites or welfare queens or illegals bleeding the system dry - pick your poison.
The worse things get, the more Red America will double down and blame the rest of us for their troubles. I'd be happy to let them reap what they sow, but for the fact that their bad policies affect all of us, and the worse their troubles get, the more dangerous they become to innocents in the groups they blame. "
106
There needs to be a third category: Those whose situation would stay precisely the same, or return to where it was before Obamacare. IT appears that would be most people. But maybe not.
It was lying about this that poisoned Obamacare in the first place. So, what's the truth this time?
It was lying about this that poisoned Obamacare in the first place. So, what's the truth this time?
4
Seems like this bill does three things:
1. Those doing well in the economy do better.
2. Old people on average will die faster because of the increases placed on that group will make coverage unaffordable.
3. Poor people on average will get sick sooner, and if young, because they take longer to die, will drive up demand for medical services they don't have coverage for, thereby increasing medical costs for the nation on the whole because unpaid bills are recovered by factoring into rates hospitals will charge.
You got your repeal of Obamacare Donald !
Good, but sad, job !!!!
1. Those doing well in the economy do better.
2. Old people on average will die faster because of the increases placed on that group will make coverage unaffordable.
3. Poor people on average will get sick sooner, and if young, because they take longer to die, will drive up demand for medical services they don't have coverage for, thereby increasing medical costs for the nation on the whole because unpaid bills are recovered by factoring into rates hospitals will charge.
You got your repeal of Obamacare Donald !
Good, but sad, job !!!!
15
Was it by accident, or Design, that the same day as the vote, Trump was celebrating the aspirational realisation of God's Will, by American agency, and himself, in The Rose Garden?
Given the Prosperity Gospel floating to the surface in America and even advising the POTUS, one thing is clear: Pre-existing conditions going forward shall be treated as The Judgement of God.
What other explanation might there be for turning away the afflicted? If some deserve, by virtue, to be healthy, elected and rich, the opposite necessarily applies.
"The best thing you can do for the poor, [the unfortunate and weak] is not be one of them."-American Psycho, 2017
Given the Prosperity Gospel floating to the surface in America and even advising the POTUS, one thing is clear: Pre-existing conditions going forward shall be treated as The Judgement of God.
What other explanation might there be for turning away the afflicted? If some deserve, by virtue, to be healthy, elected and rich, the opposite necessarily applies.
"The best thing you can do for the poor, [the unfortunate and weak] is not be one of them."-American Psycho, 2017
11
A few days ago the Times published an extensive, and nonsensical, article on #45's daughter acting as a "moderating" influence on him. That self-serving and untrue characterization of herself was never true and never will be true. The passage today of the Republicans "repeal and replace" health care bill" demonstrates her claim would be laughable were it not for all of the serious harm it will inflict on her fellow citizens should it ever become law. In this regard, she, like #45, is a disgrace.
24
Bill makes older people worse off.
Everyone gets old.
How does this bill have a chance?
Everyone gets old.
How does this bill have a chance?
10
We all lose if this makes its way into law.
14
GOP is signing their "death bill". People with preexisting conditions might not be able to get their hands on insurance, but they sure will get their hands on a ballot in the midterms.
29
All it would take to stop this disaster is a couple of honest Republican senators. Are there that many?
16
Let's boil this down to its essence: the GOP is taking money that would otherwise save your life in order to give massive tax cuts to wealthy people.
40
Didn't the House include an amendment that Congress and their staffs would still have access to affordable insurance policies that included pre-existing conditions even if the states chose to apply to waive this provision? That makes Congress a "winner." If House Republicans thought these provisions of the ACA should apply to them, then why repeal or restrict such provisions for the citizens they represent?
If the Republican goal was to devise a better health care system, then they would have worked with the Democrats to fix the broken pieces of the ACA. Rather their aim was to claim a Pyrrhic victory in fulfilling their political promise to repeal "Obamacare" no matter how their replacement would affect their constituents. Hopefully their constituents will hold them accountable for this cynical and irresponsible action and vote them out in the next election!
In the mean time, the Senate would be wise to scrap the House bill and refocus the discussion. It should agree to provide universal health coverage and focus the debate on how to fund it–single payer, two-tier or mandated.
As the party, which promotes economic freedom, Republicans should embrace universal health care. In 2012, the US ranked 12th on the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom and all of the countries that ranked above it, except for Mauritius, had universal health care. Healthy citizens are more productive citizens and isn't economic freedom and wealth what the Republicans care most about?
If the Republican goal was to devise a better health care system, then they would have worked with the Democrats to fix the broken pieces of the ACA. Rather their aim was to claim a Pyrrhic victory in fulfilling their political promise to repeal "Obamacare" no matter how their replacement would affect their constituents. Hopefully their constituents will hold them accountable for this cynical and irresponsible action and vote them out in the next election!
In the mean time, the Senate would be wise to scrap the House bill and refocus the discussion. It should agree to provide universal health coverage and focus the debate on how to fund it–single payer, two-tier or mandated.
As the party, which promotes economic freedom, Republicans should embrace universal health care. In 2012, the US ranked 12th on the Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom and all of the countries that ranked above it, except for Mauritius, had universal health care. Healthy citizens are more productive citizens and isn't economic freedom and wealth what the Republicans care most about?
17
At some point in our lives, most Americans will live in a state, will need to use a hospital, will have a pre-existing condition, and will with any luck become "older Americans." So it seems like the vast majority of us, even those of us who might be thought of as "winners", will also be losers as well. As someone who falls into a couple of the "winner" categories as well, I'm going to call this one as I see it: this bill is a travesty and a tragedy.
42
As with all legislation this administration and the majority Republican Congress pass, it is all about taking money from improving the public good and public health, and send it right into the coffers of the super wealthy. The only positive thing that may come from this debacle is an even stronger and more muscular resistance that could sweep enough of these GOP demagogues and pontificators out of office in 2018 so that reason, facts and concern for all citizens is part of the daily work of governing. Every one of us should be focused on that. The amount of damage done in 105 days shows that this group knows no bounds to shredding the construct and infrastructure necessary to support and strengthen a democracy and common public purpose. Citizens who are ill and bankrupt due to catastrophic medical events make it much easier to enact policy that favors the wealthy...no one has energy or time to raise their voices.
12
I appreciate that this article didn't focus on the politicians whose stock went up or down because that obfuscates the real people who are starting at disaster. However, as much as this article divides us by age and income, we still lose if we want our government to be an expression of caring for each other.
15
I'd like to think this vote is an important nail in the GOP's coffin. However, I just finished Arlie Russell Hochschild's "Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right." There are right now working-class voters across the country who are celebrating. Yes, some people they know, some people they love, will lose coverage or have to pay exorbitant sums to purchase it--and most won't be able to do that. But they think that this will keep others (mostly with darker skins) from having health insurance that they, the hard-working whites, have helped to pay for. And this makes them very happy.
47
Racism: great way to divide and conquer the working class.
13
Once again, the healthy and wealthy win, the poor and sick lose and as it stands, I lose. We live in dark times, and this is unacceptable behavior from those we pay to be in office to represent us. I am very sad for our nation.
38
Trump & GOP appear willing and eager to toss their loving majority of supporters into early graves. Coal miners, auto-workers, the entire former Confederacy and religious zealots, by their unyielding and unrealistic fealty to Trump & GOP, are equally willing and eager to sacrifice themselves so Trump & GOP can enjoy even larger net worth. Stunning what faith and belief bring about when rational thought process is ignored.
27
And it's equally disconcerting that the great majority of the people commenting, including the representatives that voted for this bill, did not read it in its entirety (if at all) and do not understand it.
3
They didn't have a chance to read it. Supposedly it was available at 8PM last night. I didn't find it then. Even it was there, that's all of18 hours, most of which most people spend sleeping. Some form of popular participation!
7
Isn't this just a matter of passing the buck. Let the states handle seems to be equivalent to saying, "Let someone else pay for it".
Do the states even want this responsibility ?
Do the states even want this responsibility ?
7
Remember last year, when Republican's criticism of the ACA centered on it's (purported) high cost, how it would bankrupt government? Ha! That excuse simply vanished as soon as Republicans were able to push their vastly more debt-inducing package of tax cuts, border wall, and military buildups. Were we not supposed to notice this?
Now it can be told: Today's Republican Party no longer stands for anything but subservience to Big Money and contempt for average Americans. Fight back, people.
Now it can be told: Today's Republican Party no longer stands for anything but subservience to Big Money and contempt for average Americans. Fight back, people.
33
Just another case showing why GOP voters so often vote against their own interests. The top 1% and congress make out great and everyone else just hopes they never get sick. If they do, all of their life work is gone. It sure is nice to know that Trump/GOP only care about their wealth and not Americans health and well-being.
9
As reported in WSJ, people with employer-provided insurance are also at risk. Their risk is that employers can opt for coverage of fewer conditions and/or institute caps on coverage for certain conditions or items such as prescription drugs. This was a last-minute amendment slipped into the bill. Even if you don't buy your insurance through the ACA exchanges, you may also be a loser under this bill.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/little-noted-provision-of-gop-health-bill-c...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/little-noted-provision-of-gop-health-bill-c...
30
Wow. People who make up to $150,000 a year will get subsidies to pay for health insurance? Somehow I missed that detail before. But fewer poor people will have Medicaid. This bill really does favor the well-to-do.
So the conservatives are not against subsidies, they just want the well-off to get them too. So much for their vaunted principles.
So the conservatives are not against subsidies, they just want the well-off to get them too. So much for their vaunted principles.
20
This program should be called "The Health Care for the Healthy" bill. Only healthy and/or Rich people will be able to afford insurance that they will never be able to use, for fear of losing it.
I want to hear from the coal miners with black lung in WV, who voted overwhelmingly for Trump, how they feel about this? The 50yo white guys in PA who took time out from their busy lives to vote for the first time ever, for Trump? How do they feel about losing access to affordable health care?
I want to hear from the coal miners with black lung in WV, who voted overwhelmingly for Trump, how they feel about this? The 50yo white guys in PA who took time out from their busy lives to vote for the first time ever, for Trump? How do they feel about losing access to affordable health care?
31
More uninsured and under-insured patients. Less preventive care. Uncontrolled diabetes, hypertension, obesity, coronary artery disease, etc. Less cancer prevention. More ER visits, with ensuing higher costs and lack of follow up care.
Will someone on the "right", with a half a brain and any semblance of a moral compass, please explain to me how this is good for anyone but the rich in this country? WHY IS HEALTHCARE NOT A RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY???
Will someone on the "right", with a half a brain and any semblance of a moral compass, please explain to me how this is good for anyone but the rich in this country? WHY IS HEALTHCARE NOT A RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY???
28
This bill is bad enough that just maybe Bernie and Elizabeth can somehow get a Medicare/Single Payer plan introduced that will ride to success on the coattails of a public backlash against this unreasonable travesty.
16
There are "NO" winners! This is an American tragedy,
16
Seems like a pretty crummy bill, no certainly contradicts Trump's campaign promise that "everyone will have healthcare and it will cost less", or words to that effect.
Not a promise most people will forget when the opposite is true, or when people simply can't afford coverage.
Not a promise most people will forget when the opposite is true, or when people simply can't afford coverage.
11
Only 17 percent of the American populace was for the Healthcare plan the Republicans forced on the American public. Furthermore the bill was never scrutinized by the Budget office or the contents made public to the people.
So what the House did was simply tyranny.
So what the House did was simply tyranny.
41
It is erroneous to say that people who want less comprehensive healthcare are winners. Ultimately, those people can (and very much do) turn out to be losers because the very second they have an accident or get an unexpected illness (and they will) they discover they have to put out more money than they have or simply have to forgo the proper medical treatment. These are the people I used to see in line at the pharmacy telling the pharmacist to take the pills back because they couldn't afford what was prescribed.
You might say well, it's their choice, but that's the problem -- most people don't really understand the details of their plans and are easily duped into "lower premiums" without understanding the consequences -- and many people who are healthy don't realize how very, very easily that situation can change dramatically overnight.
This is a large reason why Obamacare was able to reduce personal bankruptcies by half, as reported in the NYT, but not repeated here in the appropriate context.
Bottom line: shameful day for anyone who isn't of high means.
You might say well, it's their choice, but that's the problem -- most people don't really understand the details of their plans and are easily duped into "lower premiums" without understanding the consequences -- and many people who are healthy don't realize how very, very easily that situation can change dramatically overnight.
This is a large reason why Obamacare was able to reduce personal bankruptcies by half, as reported in the NYT, but not repeated here in the appropriate context.
Bottom line: shameful day for anyone who isn't of high means.
40
Thank you Margot, for clarifying it for us. This is very helpful as a guide.
8
"Insurance companies would be allowed to charge a 64-year-old customer five times the price charged to an 18-year-old one, to cite the most extreme example."
Well, ignoring any political ramifications, that makes sense doesn't it? Older people (like myself) consume many times the health care as the young. We also have more savings and more income (social security, pensions, dividends and interest). So as a base case we should pay a lot more. The question is the extent to which Republicans have a plan which is reasonably designed to make sure people don't fall through the cracks. I'd like to see competing analysis from those not wedded to Obamacare.
One point such analyses often raise is that comparisons between Obamacare and Republican ideas are apple and orange comparisons - because Obamacare cannot continue as presently constituted. So it's unfair to compare the merely workable with an unsustainable ideal. Democrats might have a little more credibility on this issue if they were to admit their plan was poorly conceived.
Well, ignoring any political ramifications, that makes sense doesn't it? Older people (like myself) consume many times the health care as the young. We also have more savings and more income (social security, pensions, dividends and interest). So as a base case we should pay a lot more. The question is the extent to which Republicans have a plan which is reasonably designed to make sure people don't fall through the cracks. I'd like to see competing analysis from those not wedded to Obamacare.
One point such analyses often raise is that comparisons between Obamacare and Republican ideas are apple and orange comparisons - because Obamacare cannot continue as presently constituted. So it's unfair to compare the merely workable with an unsustainable ideal. Democrats might have a little more credibility on this issue if they were to admit their plan was poorly conceived.
3
Older people do not necessarily have more savings and income. Millions of older Americans have lost jobs to outsourcing, robotics and/or age discrimination. The largest increases in the homeless population are single adults over the age of 45. Pensions are being eliminated. Social Security payments are based on how much you earned - therefore if you are a low to middle income earner your social security checks may not be enough to cover basic necessities. Dividends and interest?? Nice to see that you're fortunate enough to buy stocks, but the vast majority of Americans don't have an E-Trade account or a broker. Half of the American population is functionally poor. So this health bill is a financial disaster for the majority of older Americans.
16
I'm glad that you have more savings and more income as an older person. I'm also glad that as an older person, having worked all my life in relatively high paying jobs, I also can count on both social security and a pension.
However, there are thousands, perhaps millions of older people who do not have that luxury. They rely almost solely on social security, through no fault of their own, based on the employers and types of jobs that they've had to take. All of these health savings accounts and IRAs are great, but only if you have the money to put into them; kind of hard to do when you have to live paycheck to paycheck.
However, there are thousands, perhaps millions of older people who do not have that luxury. They rely almost solely on social security, through no fault of their own, based on the employers and types of jobs that they've had to take. All of these health savings accounts and IRAs are great, but only if you have the money to put into them; kind of hard to do when you have to live paycheck to paycheck.
22
I think, though, that the point of insurance is to diversify risk. Yes, as you age, you are going to, statistically, incur more costs, but if you put all aging people in a pool, the individual costs would be astronomical. You need something to offset that. I'm happy to pay a little more so my mom/grandma can receive the care they need without having to shell out an arm and a leg.
I'd also point out that as you age, your income becomes increasing static. You have less earning potential, especially if you're retired; also, you only have "more" savings and income if you're well off to begin with... I started earning more than my mom when I was 18.
Ultimately, it doesn't make sense to me why car insurance is mandatory, but health insurance is seen as some sort of "luxury." You may or may not get into a car accident. You are, without a doubt, going to get sick at some point in your life.
Finally, as conceived, the ACA was incredibly more robust, far from perfect, but much better than what was eventually passed; the GOP, out of fear for "creeping socialism," and special interest groups doing what they do basically stripped it... the fact is, so many other countries have found a better solution and here we are, with the GOP basically saying "if you're too poor to save for your health, too bad."
I'd also point out that as you age, your income becomes increasing static. You have less earning potential, especially if you're retired; also, you only have "more" savings and income if you're well off to begin with... I started earning more than my mom when I was 18.
Ultimately, it doesn't make sense to me why car insurance is mandatory, but health insurance is seen as some sort of "luxury." You may or may not get into a car accident. You are, without a doubt, going to get sick at some point in your life.
Finally, as conceived, the ACA was incredibly more robust, far from perfect, but much better than what was eventually passed; the GOP, out of fear for "creeping socialism," and special interest groups doing what they do basically stripped it... the fact is, so many other countries have found a better solution and here we are, with the GOP basically saying "if you're too poor to save for your health, too bad."
23
So, let me see if I understand this. Under the GOP program, my health insurance costs would be less expensive as long as I don't need any healthcare. If I do need to see a doctor or go to the hospital, my co-payments and deductible would be higher. And, if my illness turns into something that would be categorized as a "preexisting condition" then I could be kicked off my health insurance, be forced to pay high premiums, or beg to be put into one of those underfunded high risk pools. And, I'd have a lifetime spending limit which, when reached, would leave me with the option of robbing a bank or die. So, why would I want to buy health insurance to begin with? To help support some health company CEO's $100M salary? I'm thinking of maybe just putting the money into the MegaMillion lottery pool instead. I think the odds might be better.
140
I used to work in health insurance. The only customers the health insurance companies really want are large employer plans. The profit margins are the most robust in that market segment.
13
OMG. This is worse than I thought. I hope the Senate version is more moderate.
19
OMG. Don't just hope! Do something about it! Call your Congressional reps.
12
The BIGLY LOSERS: Trump voters. In many respects.
36
This bill is gangrenous. Congress is giving itself and its rich cronies a tax cut at the expense of our health. How sick.
34
"Winners
High-income earners"
"Losers
Poor people"
The rest of the article is just filler.
High-income earners"
"Losers
Poor people"
The rest of the article is just filler.
113
don't forget:
"Losers: Elderly and Hospitals in poor communities"
this is shameful!
"Losers: Elderly and Hospitals in poor communities"
this is shameful!
9
Paul Ryan's smug face says everything you need to know. He could care less who it hurts. Lets just get on with carving that big $ sign on the side of the earth. We have made his dreams come true. We all live for that.
28
Hopefully Ryan's voters will not re-elect him and do us all a favor.
5
Republicans--"the Penny-Wise and Billion-Dollar Foolish Party."
The House Republicans are like the fellow who learned that his automobile engine needed a valve job so he removed the motor and replaced it with one from a battery operated toy car.
The House Republicans are like the fellow who learned that his automobile engine needed a valve job so he removed the motor and replaced it with one from a battery operated toy car.
18
Not even "penny wise" necessarily. According to some analyses (though not all in), this wouldn't save any money at all (except for wealthy and big companies) and could end up increasing the debt.
6
Permit me to take exception with your suggestion that "Upper-middle-class people without pre-existing health conditions" are winners under this ridiculously heartless plan. I count myself among that segment of the population — well, I do have some pre-existing conditions, but who over the age of 65 doesn't? — but I'm certainly not a "winner" when I find myself in a country even more divided between rich and poor, where the wealthy gain more advantages and those struggling to make ends meet find those "ends" pulled further and further apart by savage, shortsighted lawmakers.
"Win?" To live in a country that doesn't take care of its own citizens, but instead slashes taxes on its wealthiest and most powerful is "winning?" To age in a country that allows folks a few years younger than me but without my previous good fortune in life and employment to be forced to struggle even more than they already are isn't "winning" — it's living in shame that my beloved country has been taken over by the most heartless, the least empathetic, and the most mean-spirited "Hell with you, Jack, I got mine!" government I've had the misfortune to live under during my many decades on this Earth.
"Win?" To live in a country that doesn't take care of its own citizens, but instead slashes taxes on its wealthiest and most powerful is "winning?" To age in a country that allows folks a few years younger than me but without my previous good fortune in life and employment to be forced to struggle even more than they already are isn't "winning" — it's living in shame that my beloved country has been taken over by the most heartless, the least empathetic, and the most mean-spirited "Hell with you, Jack, I got mine!" government I've had the misfortune to live under during my many decades on this Earth.
417
Obama Care needed reforming soon after it's passage. Republicans refused to even talk about fixing some of the problems. Now they passed a bill with no Democratic support at all. At best this bill addresses some of the short comings of Obama care. At worst it's another attack on the poor which Republicans have been doing with regularity these past two months.
9
I have called so many different members of congress to ask them to vote no on this horrible health care bill. The message takers have almost all said that the vast majority of callers have been strongly opposed to the bill. Some would not share that information. So my question is, if they pass this bill, isn't that the final proof that American democracy is dead?
37
Democracy isn't dead. Its just that the politicians are just greedy. Remember, the vast majority of Congress people are part of the 1%. So they just gave themselves a huge tax cut.
5
It seems nothing less than incredible that we are regressing like this. Very sad.
36
The rich and super-rich win. Everyone else loses. Who's surprised?
The only plus side to this vote will be the landslide defeat of those who voted to pass it. Hope Trump paid them off very well, because who will hire them after voters kick them out?
The only plus side to this vote will be the landslide defeat of those who voted to pass it. Hope Trump paid them off very well, because who will hire them after voters kick them out?
21
They will just become well paid lobbyists.
4
Who? The same corporate interests which are snapping up ex-members of this administration's transition team, flouting Trump's own declaration of a (meager, at that) 6-month cooling-off period before re-boarding the gravy train.
7
Who needs a CBO estimate in order to legislate? The GOP has "alternative numbers" based on alternative facts.
20
How does this bill provide equal protection under the law? Just asking.
22
All of our legislators have good government employer provided healthcare. They should NOT be the deciders. All I hear is spin and talking points as they have no idea of the true realities of healthcare and do not have any of their or their own families skin in the game. All of this is part of the reality show we are living in and is politics to give Trump a win.
31
Assuming past is prologue, my state, North Carolina, likely as with many other red states, will do the least allowable in providing access to affordable medical care. Having refused to expand medicaid since the ACA under the specious argument that the federal government couldn't be trusted to pay its share of costs, I fully expect the legislature to further lop off medicaid funding while eliminating as many medical services as possible, while the wealthier in the state will benefit from tax cuts.
Unfortunately, our poorer rural areas tend to have majorities of religiously driven, single issue voters and, with the state's voter suppression laws and extreme gerrymandering, their support continues to dominate state politics. If someone can come up with "smart pills" to hand out to these folks, we in the state's urban areas would be most appreciative.
Unfortunately, our poorer rural areas tend to have majorities of religiously driven, single issue voters and, with the state's voter suppression laws and extreme gerrymandering, their support continues to dominate state politics. If someone can come up with "smart pills" to hand out to these folks, we in the state's urban areas would be most appreciative.
79
Pre-existing conditions now include almost everything outside of having gone to the doctor for a well-check.
52
And there's no incentive to go for the well check either - they might diagnose something!
7
Even if that was true, which it's not, so what? Sounds like a good plan you've got there. We pay trillions for wars but not health care. And people don't say a peep and instead vote for Fake human beings like Trump and Paul Ryan.
6
Common hay fever and grass/pollen allergies are now "auto immune diseases" so good luck if you sneeze in the spring. And.....let's not forget the woman in Michael Moore's movie, "Sicko", who was denied coverage for treating a yeast infection with an OTC remedy.
7
Since ACA was passed, bankruptcies have dropped by 50%. "Some of the most important financial protections of the ACA apply to all consumers, whether they get their coverage through ACA exchanges or the private insurance marketplace. These provisions include mandated coverage for pre-existing conditions and, on most covered benefits, an end to annual and lifetime coverage caps. 'It’s absolutely remarkable,' says Jim Molleur, a Maine-based bankruptcy attorney with 20 years of experience. 'We’re not getting people with big medical bills, chronically sick people who would hit those lifetime caps or be denied because of pre-existing conditions. They seemed to disappear almost overnight once ACA kicked in.'" Meanwhile, the House is voting to repeal those protections.
The cost of this Paul Ryan "win" in the House will be the loss of the GOP majority in 2018. GOP representatives deserve all the anger, disappointment and desperation they will get from their constituents. People don't want to back to the old days of out-of-control healthcare bankruptcy.
The cost of this Paul Ryan "win" in the House will be the loss of the GOP majority in 2018. GOP representatives deserve all the anger, disappointment and desperation they will get from their constituents. People don't want to back to the old days of out-of-control healthcare bankruptcy.
153
Don't count on the loss of the GOP majority in 2018. As long as Don The Con continues to move towards making abortion illegal and strengthening gun rights, his supports will sacrifice their own lives if necessary. Losing health insurance coverage will make them mad, but not move their support for Don The Con.
6
Obamacare has set expectations for government-sponsored healthcare very high. Once a benefit is given, it's nearly impossible to take it back. Witness Social Security.
Then again, Obamacare promised so much (without considering how insurers would make money), that there won't be many insurers left anyway. So Trump and Co. are correct when they say Obamacare will fail on its own.
Regardless, the GOP owns this mess. They had seven years to find a bi-partisan compromise and, as far as I know, never reached across the aisle. They wouldn't fix Obamacare, because they were fixated on repealing it.
Even if this thing passes today, the Senate will hopefully right some of these mistakes. Hewing to the Obama promises, especially on pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps, will require a lot of taxpayer money.
Then again, Obamacare promised so much (without considering how insurers would make money), that there won't be many insurers left anyway. So Trump and Co. are correct when they say Obamacare will fail on its own.
Regardless, the GOP owns this mess. They had seven years to find a bi-partisan compromise and, as far as I know, never reached across the aisle. They wouldn't fix Obamacare, because they were fixated on repealing it.
Even if this thing passes today, the Senate will hopefully right some of these mistakes. Hewing to the Obama promises, especially on pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps, will require a lot of taxpayer money.
8
Single payer my friend, insurance companies are in business to make a profit, they're only doing what a corporation is designed to do, make as large a profit as possible. This premise is fine when the company makes widgets or automobiles. It's not a great idea when you're talking about life and death or quality of life issues. Most modernized countries and governments around the world have tackled this problem by taking the profit motive out of the equation. Third World countries have not been able to provide health care for a variety of reasons. These United States we are lucky enough to reside in, have been unable to truly overcome the avarice and greed that holds us back from becoming the truly exceptional beacon that we think we really are. Time to start looking around the globe for a safer, cleaner and fairer location to abide I think. So Sad !!
12
The losers are poor people, older Americans in most states and people with preexisting conditions, essentially people who need health care most.This is absurd, Major cuts to the Medicaid program, which funds care for the poor and disabled., many hospitals in poor communities where a lot of people signed up for Medicaid will close. How can anyone defend this bill? There is nothing great about this bill
60
Let us hope there are enough Republican senators left with the decency to reject this bill when it slithers its way over the transom from the House. The nation only needs a few of them to stand up for the public good.
47
The two words you used, "Republicans" and "decency" are incompatible based on their track record in the House, Senate, White House, and the agencies those appointed are now working to dismantle or diminish in effectiveness of their charter.
30
Though I'm on board with "slither."
7
The GOP majority owns this. They push through legislation that tampers with 20% of the economy and may have significant negative medical and financial consequences for at least 24 million Americans and they do so without even the benefit of the CBO analysis as well as any meaningful public discussion. Why the rush? The enabling of Trump is dangerous not just for this piece of legislation but for what will follow.
All GOP reps, even those who managed to vote no, needs to challenge the leadership that facilitated this or we can only hope that the House majority changes with the 2018 election.
All GOP reps, even those who managed to vote no, needs to challenge the leadership that facilitated this or we can only hope that the House majority changes with the 2018 election.
51
As a boomer who has to buy individual health insurance, I am dreading the $40,000 annual insurance bill with a $15,000 deductible that is coming if this bill passes. It will completely blow away 30 years of careful financial planning. We will seriously have to look at every radical option we can, including medical tourism and emigration.
But on the other hand, there are a lot of self-employed people in my situation, and they will be hopping mad in 2018 and taking it out on every Republican they can find. So there's at least that consolation.
The other consolation is that the GOP may trigger a complete meltdown of the private health insurance system. American public opinion is already moving rapidly toward the notion that health care is a right that needs to be guaranteed by government (a notion that the rest of the civilized world came to decades ago). A collapse of private health insurance would help move the ball down that road.
But on the other hand, there are a lot of self-employed people in my situation, and they will be hopping mad in 2018 and taking it out on every Republican they can find. So there's at least that consolation.
The other consolation is that the GOP may trigger a complete meltdown of the private health insurance system. American public opinion is already moving rapidly toward the notion that health care is a right that needs to be guaranteed by government (a notion that the rest of the civilized world came to decades ago). A collapse of private health insurance would help move the ball down that road.
340
Sadly, if there is to be progress toward health care as a right, it will be established on the dead bodies of people who are deprived of care due to astronomical premiums -- up to $140,000 for people with cancer.
8
Way.Too.Complicated.
Keep it Simple.
Medicare for everybody:
Use means-based adjustments for both the deductible and the premium.
Cover the added expense, not covered by premiums or deductibles, with a higher Medicare tax, e.g., 5 percent of all income, including passive investment income, as well as on all business income.
By the way-- we now know that the "skin in the game" rationale for high deductibles does not work--because health care prices are out of control. Sick citizens are in no position to be "smart shoppers" because their illnesses can be too sudden to give them time to shop, plus, they need to go to their nearest facility to get care urgently, plus, they are sick, and can't concentrate or drive around doing such "shopping" for care.
Health Care prices are out of control because fee-for-service medicine pays doctors to do unnecessary treatments and procedures that the patients don't need. The doctors have a financial conflict of interest. Patients need to join forces to bring down prices, and they can do that using Medicare for everybody.
Keep it Simple.
Medicare for everybody:
Use means-based adjustments for both the deductible and the premium.
Cover the added expense, not covered by premiums or deductibles, with a higher Medicare tax, e.g., 5 percent of all income, including passive investment income, as well as on all business income.
By the way-- we now know that the "skin in the game" rationale for high deductibles does not work--because health care prices are out of control. Sick citizens are in no position to be "smart shoppers" because their illnesses can be too sudden to give them time to shop, plus, they need to go to their nearest facility to get care urgently, plus, they are sick, and can't concentrate or drive around doing such "shopping" for care.
Health Care prices are out of control because fee-for-service medicine pays doctors to do unnecessary treatments and procedures that the patients don't need. The doctors have a financial conflict of interest. Patients need to join forces to bring down prices, and they can do that using Medicare for everybody.
67
"Use means-based adjustments for both the deductible and the premium."
Why not the same price for all? When buying everything from a car to a loaf of bread everyone pays the same price regardless of their income, so why not the same for health insurance?
Why not the same price for all? When buying everything from a car to a loaf of bread everyone pays the same price regardless of their income, so why not the same for health insurance?
3
"Life" in a millionaire is "worth" more than "life" of people of modest means, so to "save" the life of the millionaire, with medical treatments, the millionaire "pays" to have his "life" "saved" in proportion to the "value" of his "life" to him.
Medical treatment is not a commodity, like a car. The value of medical care is based on the value that the person places on their own life, in proportion to their means.
Medical treatment is not a commodity, like a car. The value of medical care is based on the value that the person places on their own life, in proportion to their means.
1
I was knocked out on an operating table when the surgeon decided he needed a 2nd one to help him, and no one woke me up to ask if this was ok with me.....My bill after my insurance paid was $16,000 for the 2nd non "pre-approved" surgeon.....yes. There is no such thing as "smartly shopping" for health care. You can buy a plan and the plan can change what they cover ATFTER you get treated for something They said they covered something and then changed their minds.This is how my insurance company refused to pay the next doctor I saw, after they denied coverage for "covered" procedure post treatment. They wanted their money back. Good luck shoppers! We are thrown to the wolves.
12
How are people who choose to go without insurance "winners"? Because they'll wind up with a few extra dollars in their pocket? Until they break a leg, or get hit by a car, or slip and fall on an icy sidewalk, or contract a serious communicable disease or infection and require hospitalization? When these carefree uninsured get their doctors bills, they'll *wish* they'd ponied up for some health insurance.
80
Not to mention that many people won't "choose" to go without insurance. They simply will not be able to afford the premiums, either because they work low wage jobs or have lost their jobs.
47
we will be back where we were before ACA.. The insured people will pay higher costs instituted by physicians and hospitals to cover the costs of the patients that have no insurance and are unable to pay...
7
This is a tax cut for wealthy Americans disguised as Health Care Reform.
from another NY Times piece;
"The bill would cut the taxes of high-income people by nearly $300 billion over 10 years by repealing a payroll tax increase and a tax on their investment income imposed by the Affordable Care Act."
from another NY Times piece;
"The bill would cut the taxes of high-income people by nearly $300 billion over 10 years by repealing a payroll tax increase and a tax on their investment income imposed by the Affordable Care Act."
90
If only this were about addressing health care system issues and actual citizen's needs. There are certain realities that remain unaddressed - 1) that insurance as a product (from life to auto to health) was never designed to cover day-to-day expense. It is at it's best when truly used to mitigate the economic consequences of catastrophic event, 2) that health insurance is an outgrowth of employer-based care and only can assess risk on a pooled basis - there is no basis or models to underwrite individual risk, and 3) when you split the US population between employer and non-employer based pool, you are automatically disadvantaging one over the other.
When will our "leaders" start taking on the real issues so that, as citizens, we can have affordable access and take responsibility for our quality of health instead of dealing with this as a numbers exercise?
Finally, no one should vote for anyone who supports this effort and isn't willing to have it be the basis of their own healthcare. If Congress were forced into these programs as customers/covered lives, maybe they would take the time, thought and effort to design something that is affordable, accessible and sustainable.
When will our "leaders" start taking on the real issues so that, as citizens, we can have affordable access and take responsibility for our quality of health instead of dealing with this as a numbers exercise?
Finally, no one should vote for anyone who supports this effort and isn't willing to have it be the basis of their own healthcare. If Congress were forced into these programs as customers/covered lives, maybe they would take the time, thought and effort to design something that is affordable, accessible and sustainable.
60
What this new bill shows, essentially, is the the US is a society that is unwilling to shoulder a small cost across an entire population to ensure that every American can access some form of affordable healthcare. Wealthy Americans would rather save a few bucks and trip over the dying poor in the streets. Odd phenomenon for a "developed" country.
462
We stopped being a developed country when we voted Republicans into a majority in congress. At that point we became a country of "Me, Me, Me."
19
You forgot the biggest winner: Congressional reps and senators. Their insurance is already subsidized so they are shielded from the impact of increased cost and inadequate and unaffordable coverage, and after some time, pensions unavailable to everyone else. They will also continue to benefit from the largess that comes with shilling for the super wealthy and large corporations. C'mon Trump. Thought you were going to drain that swamp!
202
Yes, and they exempted themselves, their families, and their staffs from the changes to the pre-existing coverage and end of lifetime caps.
19
exactly the same as under Obamacare. Did you complain then?
1
Surely you cannot believe the drain the swamp bit....you are kidding right?
4
The members of the GOP House Freedom caucus would have the nation regress to the healthcare glories of the early 1800s.
"To act consistently [in accord with the laws of population increase, of scarcity and of the market], we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly . . . impede, the operation of nature in producing . . . mortality . . . ." An Essay on the Principles of Population (New York: Dutton, 1960), vol. 2, pp. 179-80; originally published in 1803.
I am being a bit hyperbolic, but in recent statements some members of the GOP House Freedom Caucus have insisted that the healthy should not be forced to pay higher premiums just to help out those who have neglected their health and, as a consequence, have preexisting conditions--as if blameworthy behavior is the main cause of preexisting conditions.
Why don't the illustrious members of that Caucus just be honest and go full Malthus on us?
"To act consistently [in accord with the laws of population increase, of scarcity and of the market], we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly . . . impede, the operation of nature in producing . . . mortality . . . ." An Essay on the Principles of Population (New York: Dutton, 1960), vol. 2, pp. 179-80; originally published in 1803.
I am being a bit hyperbolic, but in recent statements some members of the GOP House Freedom Caucus have insisted that the healthy should not be forced to pay higher premiums just to help out those who have neglected their health and, as a consequence, have preexisting conditions--as if blameworthy behavior is the main cause of preexisting conditions.
Why don't the illustrious members of that Caucus just be honest and go full Malthus on us?
52
I don't think you're being hyperbolic at all. There are some truly dark social Darwinian beliefs behind this bill, namely that the sick deserve to be sick, the poor deserve to be poor, and that people in both groups deserve to die in misery and poverty. It's repugnant.
16
In a word, this bill helps the young, the healthy, and the wealthy. Glad the GOP congress is crafting a health plan for those who need it most. Not.
130
Folks who are poor, have a history of medical problems, and/or are elderly certainly draw the short end of the stick with this bill. At least in tangible economic terms.
But, the reality is that each and every one of us who cares about the well-being of our fellow Americans - regardless of whether those fellow Americans are rich or poor, healthy or sick - also loses.
This bill is yet one more blow in a series of injuries to the America that we love and in which we believe.
But, the reality is that each and every one of us who cares about the well-being of our fellow Americans - regardless of whether those fellow Americans are rich or poor, healthy or sick - also loses.
This bill is yet one more blow in a series of injuries to the America that we love and in which we believe.
730
After eight years of public discussions about the GOP's undoing and imminent demise, hopefully, this act will bring on the end of the GOP's chokehold on Congress and reign of terror on the nation, but not without a terrible cost: death and untold suffering for millions of Americans.
There is a silver lining, however. After having had Obamacare instead of universal healthcare, it is more likely than ever that a presidential candidate who runs in 2020 on a universal healthcare platform will win by a landslide.
Then again, by 2020, we will have almost a hundred years of progress to reinstate. It's really sad that America needs to experience catastrophes like this one in order for progress to be made.
===
www.rimaregas.com
There is a silver lining, however. After having had Obamacare instead of universal healthcare, it is more likely than ever that a presidential candidate who runs in 2020 on a universal healthcare platform will win by a landslide.
Then again, by 2020, we will have almost a hundred years of progress to reinstate. It's really sad that America needs to experience catastrophes like this one in order for progress to be made.
===
www.rimaregas.com
341
We all have to put our energies behind Bernie's vision for universal health care. Can't afford not to.
10
Biggest winners of this latest Republican assault on America: rich people. What more be said? Republican voters: you have the blood of the millions who will suffer from this immoral bill on your [Grinch-like] souls.
7
In 2020 progressives will get all tied up in purity knots and trip over their own two left feet. The so called "Green Party" will run a daffy candidate with zero chance of winning a single electoral vote. Folks such as yourself will pout you didn't get exactly your way. And Donald Trump will win a second term even without Vladimir Putin's help.
In the USA we have attempted to deal with the combination of inelastic demand and unregulated medical care prices in various ways. One method of keeping medical care expense as a percent of GDP to "only" double that of other developed countries was to have a significant portion of the population uninsured and denied medical care in some circumstances. The existence of large numbers of uninsured (conscripts in the war against rising medical costs) did moderate the growth in health care costs.
HMO's were once thought to be a way of dealing with the inexorable price increases. The problem is that HMOs have to compete against each other for services of doctors and hospitals. As long as medical prices are set by market forces, the inelasticity of demand will force market prices inexorably higher. In a "mixed system" with both free-market and controlled health care prices like the USA, prices inexorably are driven upwards to the market level as long as demand is inelastic. Prices such as payments from Medicare that are "controlled" have to be increased continuously with legislation such as the "doctor-fix" to stay competitive with market prices. Medical prices can only be effectively controlled either by direct price controls as in Japan or with systems where everyone gets care for "free" from the government. In those countries only the extremely wealthy can chose not to use the government paid health services that they have already pa..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
HMO's were once thought to be a way of dealing with the inexorable price increases. The problem is that HMOs have to compete against each other for services of doctors and hospitals. As long as medical prices are set by market forces, the inelasticity of demand will force market prices inexorably higher. In a "mixed system" with both free-market and controlled health care prices like the USA, prices inexorably are driven upwards to the market level as long as demand is inelastic. Prices such as payments from Medicare that are "controlled" have to be increased continuously with legislation such as the "doctor-fix" to stay competitive with market prices. Medical prices can only be effectively controlled either by direct price controls as in Japan or with systems where everyone gets care for "free" from the government. In those countries only the extremely wealthy can chose not to use the government paid health services that they have already pa..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
15
How could anyone consider this fair?
Since 1976 the incomes of top earners have increased 7500% and their taxes have been cut in half. Yet, Republican congressional representatives are determined to cut their taxes by another 4.7% even though they will eliminate health coverage for 24 million, eliminate subsidies that make care affordable for 11 million and make coverage unaffordable for most of the 27% of American adults who have pre-existing conditions. How could any moral person think that is the right thing to do for Americans?
Since 1976 the incomes of top earners have increased 7500% and their taxes have been cut in half. Yet, Republican congressional representatives are determined to cut their taxes by another 4.7% even though they will eliminate health coverage for 24 million, eliminate subsidies that make care affordable for 11 million and make coverage unaffordable for most of the 27% of American adults who have pre-existing conditions. How could any moral person think that is the right thing to do for Americans?
264
Warren Buffett said "Through the tax code, there has been class warfare waged, and my class has won, It's been a rout."
President Trump and members of his administration made statements indicating that they favored tax cuts for the middle class rather than the rich. The closing Trump advertisement in the election railed against a supposed cabal of international elite financial figures who were claimed to be causing America's decline. It pictured financier George Soros, Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen, and Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein as the prime villains. Trump's inaugural address also reiterated the populist theme that the day of revenge against financial elites has arrived.
Despite what Trump indicated earlier. Warren Buffet describes as having been "a rout", will likely become an outright massacre.
Today the top 3% of households pay about 50% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% pay the other 50%. In 1969 the top 3% of households paid 75% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% paid only the other 25%. In computing those figure the government correctly attributed the corporate income tax payments to the households who own shares in the corporation. Republicans may be able to have the top 3% of households pay only about 25% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% pay the other 75%. Repealing the estate tax will give billions to a fraction of the top 1% that will be made up by the rest of the taxpayers..."
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4067359 that
President Trump and members of his administration made statements indicating that they favored tax cuts for the middle class rather than the rich. The closing Trump advertisement in the election railed against a supposed cabal of international elite financial figures who were claimed to be causing America's decline. It pictured financier George Soros, Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen, and Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein as the prime villains. Trump's inaugural address also reiterated the populist theme that the day of revenge against financial elites has arrived.
Despite what Trump indicated earlier. Warren Buffet describes as having been "a rout", will likely become an outright massacre.
Today the top 3% of households pay about 50% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% pay the other 50%. In 1969 the top 3% of households paid 75% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% paid only the other 25%. In computing those figure the government correctly attributed the corporate income tax payments to the households who own shares in the corporation. Republicans may be able to have the top 3% of households pay only about 25% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% pay the other 75%. Repealing the estate tax will give billions to a fraction of the top 1% that will be made up by the rest of the taxpayers..."
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4067359 that
39
As the GOP is fond of saying, "poor people don't vote." And the ones that do, seem to have supported Trump/GOP in 2016. So I guess both got exactly what they wanted - sadly for America.
144
"Today the top 3% of households pay about 50% of Federal taxes and the rest of the 97% pay the other 50%."
But you forgot to mention that the bottom 47% of all households pay NO Federal Income Tax at all. So it is more like the top 3% pay 50%, the next 50% pay the other 50% and the bottom 47% pay nothing.
But you forgot to mention that the bottom 47% of all households pay NO Federal Income Tax at all. So it is more like the top 3% pay 50%, the next 50% pay the other 50% and the bottom 47% pay nothing.
4