It is so sad what has become of the United States. A country that used to create, innovate and manufacture now just gives it all all way to CEOs and to the grifters in the White House. Every time I travel I am reminded of how low we have sunk. Taxes pay for civilization and technology. There is no reason, except fraud, hubris and seriously screwed up priorities that things are like this. Wish I could be one of those happy Fox News people living in my clueless bubble (oh wait, they are terrified of all the black and brown criminals lurking in the dark). Oh well! I'll just hop on the train and hope to get back to BK in an hour.
15
I am not sure if anyone is aware but the signal portion of all nyct work is never outsourced, it is done all in-house. The problem with this is that new technology never takes off. Older technology stays because the maintenance staff is familiar with it and it guarantees overtime. Also, the newer signal equipment needs less people to operate. This does not excite the unions. A sad state of affairs indeed.
15
I have to say, as someone who previously lived in Brooklyn and has now lived in London for over a decade, I find the claims that Londoners "like" the Tube and that the MTA is dirty baffling. The Tube is the most unsanitary public transport system I have ridden, due to the fact that seats are covered in fabric, appear never to be replaced, and the system hosting active drinkers who often cannot control their bodily functions.
Add to that the absence of air conditioning on nearly all lines, save a few that operate overground or at shallow levels, and with temperatures rising to 50 degrees celsius, the system is revolting. The solution of TfL: carry water and please do not signal an emergency if you become ill. Unlike major stations of the MTA, there aren't even fans to move the boiling air around the stations.
As for the signs detailing arrival, these are great until your "minor delays" become "severe delays" after 20 minutes of waiting.
I continue to use the Tube and other parts of TfL, but like most Londoners, bitterly and grudgingly.
Add to that the absence of air conditioning on nearly all lines, save a few that operate overground or at shallow levels, and with temperatures rising to 50 degrees celsius, the system is revolting. The solution of TfL: carry water and please do not signal an emergency if you become ill. Unlike major stations of the MTA, there aren't even fans to move the boiling air around the stations.
As for the signs detailing arrival, these are great until your "minor delays" become "severe delays" after 20 minutes of waiting.
I continue to use the Tube and other parts of TfL, but like most Londoners, bitterly and grudgingly.
4
America,I think is sad to say is fast becoming a third world county. And the Trumpet is not the guy to make it great again. Hit the road , Donald.
9
Kevin Hagen's photographs are worth a thousand words! Wow, the antiquity of this equipment is staggering.
7
LOL! Its midnight. My number 1 uptown just turned into a downtown train. The train is reversing back to 125th Street. Signal failure on the #1 line.
7
They are NOT doing it right! They are trying to mimic the old system and coordinate the new with the old.
The need a transponder every 500 feet to know where the train is? Have they never heard of GPS?
I absolutely guarantee you if they sent out an Request For Proposal to modern electronics companies to supply a system to equip the entire subway system with a system to let them know, at minimum: 1. Where each car is at any time within a few feet, 2. its position in a train, 3. If the train was moving or stationary, 4. Speed. With this information software could properly manage the system. I further guarantee that this could be done within a few months for probably less than half the cost of their "modernized? system, which is presumably only slightly better than what they started with.
The need a transponder every 500 feet to know where the train is? Have they never heard of GPS?
I absolutely guarantee you if they sent out an Request For Proposal to modern electronics companies to supply a system to equip the entire subway system with a system to let them know, at minimum: 1. Where each car is at any time within a few feet, 2. its position in a train, 3. If the train was moving or stationary, 4. Speed. With this information software could properly manage the system. I further guarantee that this could be done within a few months for probably less than half the cost of their "modernized? system, which is presumably only slightly better than what they started with.
4
You're just here to vent but you have no knowledge of this area. You're relying on some imperfect description of a NY Times reporter to inform you about what might be wrong with new signaling technology. I can assure you that the engineers who design these systems know 1000x more than you do about the range of technologies available. None of them would even think for a second of involving GPS in a subway signaling system.
10
Honestly, this vintage analog equipment is probably far more reliable than anything built today. They'll "upgrade" this stuff at a cost of millions (billions?) and it will be broken and obsolete before they are done with the job.
8
As with most of our country's out-dated and often dilapidated infrastructure, this problem is the result of setting the wrong prorities over a very long period of time. And setting those priorities were conscious choices made by those in public office at all levels. It was not accidential - deliberate choices were made against spending on needed projects such as this.
That's why so many of our airports, tunnels, bridges, rail service, the power grid (the list goes on and on) are all in pretty much bad shape.
That's why so many of our airports, tunnels, bridges, rail service, the power grid (the list goes on and on) are all in pretty much bad shape.
8
Great pix! Now I dont feel so bad with Toronto's pace at upgrading.
3
Yes, our subways and railways need their signals to be upgraded - most of these signals haven't been changed since I first rode the subways from Flushing to my mother's mom and dad's on 22nd street and 5th avenue in Brooklyn almost 75 years ago. However, having spent a good part of my adult working life in a few other countries, including Japan and, especially, China, I think the bed the trains ride on is at least as important for comfort, speed, and safety as the signals.
I became aware in the late 1900's and early 2000's that the Chinese and Japanese were getting rid of the old steel rails on wooden ties system that's been used here and there since the middle 1800s and replacing the wooden ties (what the rails are attached to) with much heavier reinforced concrete ones. I noticed that the ride on some sections of the railroads in China were MUCH smoother than others, and I asked one of the train masters (at least one on each train). She said to look at the rails. I said I didn't know what to look for. She asked me, "Do you see any movement of the rails?" I said "No". She said that the less movement of the rails, the smoother and safer the ride.
We do need new signals, but we also need a stronger and heavier rail and tie system. If you're riding at night on a train with reinforced concrete ties sometimes you don't know whether the train is moving or not.
I became aware in the late 1900's and early 2000's that the Chinese and Japanese were getting rid of the old steel rails on wooden ties system that's been used here and there since the middle 1800s and replacing the wooden ties (what the rails are attached to) with much heavier reinforced concrete ones. I noticed that the ride on some sections of the railroads in China were MUCH smoother than others, and I asked one of the train masters (at least one on each train). She said to look at the rails. I said I didn't know what to look for. She asked me, "Do you see any movement of the rails?" I said "No". She said that the less movement of the rails, the smoother and safer the ride.
We do need new signals, but we also need a stronger and heavier rail and tie system. If you're riding at night on a train with reinforced concrete ties sometimes you don't know whether the train is moving or not.
7
If you've actually been riding New York subways for 75 years, then you were around when it was the first to go to centralized control on part of the Lexington Ave corridor in 1956. And you rode it when they installed a computerized overlay monitoring the near entirety of Queens in 1998. And you rode it when they commissioned the first solid state interlocking in the United States at Bergen St on the F. Meanwhile, in all the "old" signal rooms, the relays were replaced every 30 years or so, which is the lifespan of a relay (why replace them sooner?). How does that square with "these signals haven't been changed since I first rode them ... almost 75 years ago"?
3
And why hesitate to invest a few billion $$$? This is a worthwhile cause! Have you ever noticed how any time there is a discussion about funding a rail-related infrastructure project, people talk about fare-box recovery, return on investment, concerns that the rail agency in question (in this case, NY-MTA) is operating in the red, etc. --- but no one ever mentions such issues when discussing highway and street infrastructure? Why should our auto roads be considered a "free" public utility while our metro and intercity trains and railroads are held to tight financial standards? When is the last time someone measured the ROI of the Cross Bronx Expwy, I-95, the Belt Pkwy, etc.? They and other highways around the country routinely receive gobs of capital dollars. But rail... that's another story (yet shouldn't be).
9
How does New York - self-prolaimed "Capital of the World" find itself in a situation where signals won't be fully modernized until 2045 or beyond? So many nations which are not as affluent have managed to build and expand subway system, light rail and bus rapid transit while we limp along.
Rather than grant tax abatements towards largely empty "supertall" condos, perhaps assessing the full tax rate would create a revenue stream. Perhaps require commercial and residential developers to contribute towards the infrastructure they will affect. It may seem a deterrent, but for now people want to be in New York enough to make this approach feasible.
Rather than grant tax abatements towards largely empty "supertall" condos, perhaps assessing the full tax rate would create a revenue stream. Perhaps require commercial and residential developers to contribute towards the infrastructure they will affect. It may seem a deterrent, but for now people want to be in New York enough to make this approach feasible.
13
While tax dollars are spent defending illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes.
2
Has Donald Trump ever ridden the New York subway?
This leadoff photo of a control room looks like an outtake from the 1974 movie "The Taking of Pelham 123" (the original film, not the remake). The only elements missing are Walter Matthau and Jerry Stiller.
9
Shanghai has a magnificent underground system, as do many other large cities. Add to that regular and high speed trains networked North, South, East And West, over the whole country,--limited access highways and fine air service, as well.
This is how the Communists oppress their people.
This is how the Communists oppress their people.
9
Far more important to spend taxes on new ways to kill people ("defense") than improve people's lives. Insanity...
9
The article betrays a philosophy prevalent at the Times that the cure for most any ill is to throw other people's money at it. The current signal system has been badly maintained and is causing delays, but the fix does not need to be a billion $$ CBTC install, which will be botched so as not to improve service too much or enable ZPTO (fully automatic trains, like the Airtrain), or even OPTO - one person operation.
What the Times cleverly leaves out is that NYCT ran more trains at closer intervals and higher speeds a half century ago, with far inferior equipment, over bolted track. Today's subway cars can accelerate faster and they run on heavier, welded rails, and so should run faster, not slower, and more frequently not less.
The difference is primarily the quality of staff and management. Today's dispatchers and operators could not duplicate the operations of 50 years ago.
What the Times cleverly leaves out is that NYCT ran more trains at closer intervals and higher speeds a half century ago, with far inferior equipment, over bolted track. Today's subway cars can accelerate faster and they run on heavier, welded rails, and so should run faster, not slower, and more frequently not less.
The difference is primarily the quality of staff and management. Today's dispatchers and operators could not duplicate the operations of 50 years ago.
6
I think that the subways are crowed cause of price and the grafity in there
Shout out to Gavin Brazil
your fan Bill
Shout out to Gavin Brazil
your fan Bill
1
So all the New Orleans Levee Inspectors work at MTA now?
4
The taking of Pelham $1 Billion, $2 Billion, $3 Billion.
3
The basic structure of the current signalling system is very robust. I think it's a mistake to toss it out in favor of an entirely new system. The components, all of which were developed before there were any form of electronic controls, and which are subject to mechanical failure, can be upgraded at a fraction of the cost of an entirely new system. In many cases, modern controls would cost a fraction of the replacement parts that need to be warehoused now by Maintenance of Way. The electromechanical timing relays that work the lights and trippers can be easily replaced with more reliable devices. As can the control panels in the towers. But the existing segment sensors, rail switches, brake trippers and signal lights (which can be updated to LEDs gradually) would be just fine as parts of an updated system. Even better, this kind of upgrade would not be disruptive to traffic. Also remember, that a distributed control system like our current vintage one doesn't lend itself to remote hacking. Let's not lose that particular robust quality.
11
Well said! Upgrades seem less expensive and more doable in a reasonable time frame then a complete replacement.
1
The NYC Subway has been a political football between Albany and City Hall for as long as I can remember. As long as NY State controls the MTA's purse strings, the Subway will be in a perpetual state of 1975. Albany leadership also knows that city residents will won't vote them out solely on the issue of a failed transportation system. NYC needs to take charge of its destiny by taking over the leadership of the MTA and ending the politicization of NYC's infrastructure.
7
That is ridiculous. The subways are WAY better off now than in 1975. The mere fact it's so crowded is proof of that. In 1975 people were fleeing the city and those who stayed only rode the subway if they had no choice.
3
I guess we can expect this kind of thing - a failure to maintain and modernize one of the world's most important transit systems - but really, it shouldn't have happened. Too many people played politics with funding for decades instead of recognizing the crown jewel of the American economy for what it is and its vital importance to the rest of the country, not just to New Yorkers.
It's the same with all of our aging, deteriorating infrastructure - and to see how Congress and presidents behave beyond their campaign rhetoric, it's clear that they don't take their responsibilities seriously and don't understand how crucial modern, efficient, well-maintained transportation systems are for the national economy - and that means for the individual lives and livelihoods of hundreds of millions of people.
These politicians with their short-sighted thinking remind me of activist investors on Wall Street - short-term profits rule, and for the long-term, well, just kick that can on down the road.
And so here we stand, stupefied, as that can clobbers us on the head.
It's the same with all of our aging, deteriorating infrastructure - and to see how Congress and presidents behave beyond their campaign rhetoric, it's clear that they don't take their responsibilities seriously and don't understand how crucial modern, efficient, well-maintained transportation systems are for the national economy - and that means for the individual lives and livelihoods of hundreds of millions of people.
These politicians with their short-sighted thinking remind me of activist investors on Wall Street - short-term profits rule, and for the long-term, well, just kick that can on down the road.
And so here we stand, stupefied, as that can clobbers us on the head.
4
Boston is experiencing the same issues with the "T". New lines are needed and most stations and tracks need an upgrade. I look at all the big multi-nationals being wooed into Boston by our Governor and Mayor. I see all the people streaming into the city to work at these companies. But if people can't afford to live in the city and they can't get into the city from the outer towns and burbs, then what happens! There is never any money for improvements-we keep giving tax cuts to the corporations to get them to come here-re-General Electric, et al. I say those companies have a responsibility to improve the transportation in the cities where they roost or else let them take the responsibility to get their own employees into and out of the city for work.
3
Could I suggest a small modification? There is a problem of attribution of agency in the fourth sentence of the article (taking into account the title and subhead), which I think you should correct: rathe than reading "The M.T.A.’s failure to modernize its signal system is a crucial example" you should have written "The failure to tax very-high income earners to increase investments in public infrastructures, including the MTA's antiquated signal system, is a crucial example".
4
No mystery why the New York City subway system is in such disrepair. Unlike other cities with storied underground systems - London, Paris, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo - New York is not the capital of anywhere. So it does not attract the 'prestige' subsidizing that comes with being a nation's capital city. Good luck with New York City taxpayers voting to make up for niggardliness at the State and Federal level.
1
London, Paris, Moscow, Tokyo, and Beijing, they all do not offer ridiculous compensation packages to the rank and file. That is the principal difference between these systems.
4
As a Londoner I found this article really interesting after living through years of engineering works across the network.
Considering most of the infrastructure is 150 years old the tube is incredibly reliable and there is a noticed improvement since work began on the signalling system - I consider myself unlucky if I have to wait more than three minutes for a train.
The main problem is of course money, we have pretty high fares but Transport for London who run the network funnel all profits into upgrades which does help a bit. The grants received from the central government are due to end in a few years so everyone's fears are that afters several years of progress things will stall once again.
Reading about how New Yorkers face at least another 30 years of disruption is pretty shocking and hope they are able to put better systems in place for faster progress on future lines. Personally I think more people need to embrace weekend closures, whilst incredibly annoying at the time (the words 'Rail Replacement Bus Service' bring terror to Londoners) it will save time and money in the long run! Good luck
Considering most of the infrastructure is 150 years old the tube is incredibly reliable and there is a noticed improvement since work began on the signalling system - I consider myself unlucky if I have to wait more than three minutes for a train.
The main problem is of course money, we have pretty high fares but Transport for London who run the network funnel all profits into upgrades which does help a bit. The grants received from the central government are due to end in a few years so everyone's fears are that afters several years of progress things will stall once again.
Reading about how New Yorkers face at least another 30 years of disruption is pretty shocking and hope they are able to put better systems in place for faster progress on future lines. Personally I think more people need to embrace weekend closures, whilst incredibly annoying at the time (the words 'Rail Replacement Bus Service' bring terror to Londoners) it will save time and money in the long run! Good luck
15
When I was in London a couple of months ago, maybe five or so years since my last visit and I don't know how long since I rode the tube -- I was impressed by how short my waits for the train were, and I rode it quite a lot. I have also been impressed with all the additions to the London service over the last 15 or 20 years.
So sad. A wonderful city...suffocating under rubble of it's own infrastructure.
And suffocated by politicians whose egos and ambitions came first. And they were reelected!
And suffocated by politicians whose egos and ambitions came first. And they were reelected!
4
That's what you get with unions, no accountability for work performance, and poor service at a high cost. All brought to you by years of political payoffs to Democrats.
9
Unions are not the ones who decided not to maintain the system or to give free rides to members of the board or to hire million $$$ staff people who leave before the year is up. Good grief. Get a grip on reality. Politicians and their cronies make these decision. Workers rarely even get a word in.!
5
Yeah when Her Majesty Margaret Thatcher gutted the trade unions she made the Tube great again.
You are incorrect. Our transit workers are, on the whole, hard-working and capable. I live here and I have ridden the Subways all my life. I also know many Transit workers. Besides working around the clock to keep things running, transit workers are frequently injured or killed on the job through no fault of their own. They are dedicated workers and the system would not run even as well as it does without them. By the way I am not a Transit worker.The problems with the system are due to lack of will and lack of funding by politicians from both parties. They prefer to give tax breaks to corporations rather than put money into Transit. This is just another anti Union rant by someone living thousands of miles away. No thanks.
2
Sorry, folks, but MTA leaders mustn't be distracted by 21st century upgrades when their primary job is to find meaningless employment for political cronies and their relatives.
Someone needs to abolish the MTA and start over.
Someone needs to abolish the MTA and start over.
6
We're having a regional infrastructure crisis. The old Tappan Zee is ready to fall down (and hopefully can be held together long enough to allow the completion of the new bridge.) The tunnels into Penn Station are crumbling. The MTA's signal system is simply too old. But, yeah, hey, let's cut taxes.
13
This is what I associate New Yorkers with... poor subways, lousy roads, horrible bridges, third-rate airports, dirty air, polluted water, a lot of talk, no leadership, high taxes, poor service, no foresight, bribes, kickbacks, cronyism endless whining and complaining!
5
We cannot look at the deterioration in subway performance without also looking at the poor urban planning and zoning which is overloading the system. All the high rises which have been put up along various other lines, along the #7, for example, has made getting on the train at rush hour almost impossible. One of our former mayors proposed the solution of removing the seats from the subways cars. That certainly brought up unfortunate associations. I cannot imagine what Grand Central is going to be like with the additional thousands of commuters brought in from the new high rises going up in the area, as well as the LIRR which is also being proposed to come into the terminal. Has anyone actually looked at the numbers of commuters on the concourse or on the subway platforms now?
3
No, it's all the fault of those greedy, lazy, corrupt transit workers. Don't you know anything?
1
I last lived and worked amongst you 20 years ago.
The subway, though crowded, worked ok then. Many stations were pretty scruffy, not least underneath the PABT, itself woeful and soiled.
I know the state controls the subway. But it is quite baffling how one of the wealthiest cities in the world has such woeful infrastructure.
The excuse of rider wrath if lines are shut down for installing new signals is just silly. Obviously, it's an excuse hiding some darker reality.
The subway, though crowded, worked ok then. Many stations were pretty scruffy, not least underneath the PABT, itself woeful and soiled.
I know the state controls the subway. But it is quite baffling how one of the wealthiest cities in the world has such woeful infrastructure.
The excuse of rider wrath if lines are shut down for installing new signals is just silly. Obviously, it's an excuse hiding some darker reality.
4
In my opinion this is largely due to two things: (1) the increasing unwillingness of people to pay taxes at the local, state or federal level and (2) the growing scarceness of politicians and public officials able and willing to articulate why spending money for the public good can sometimes be a good thing (except perhaps when it comes to more pay and pensions for cops and firefighters, when it's "god bless the first responders" time since their endorsements are critical).
1
I have lived on the 7 Line for 10 years and have watched it slowly (very slowly) evolve. One of the main reasons it takes so long to make any real changes is because the MTA barely has anyone actually working. If you go through a "construction" section of the tracks, you will see at least 10 MTA employees while one or two will be doing actual work. The others are eating, sleeping in the cranes, hanging out in the empty locomotive car they use to shuttle to and fro, or a group will be standing around watching one "worker" turn a bolt or replace a yellow plastic grate.
I've not only witnessed this once or twice, I have seen it every single day there is construction. 85 percent or more of the "workers" are never actually working at any given construction site (no matter the time of day or night). I really wish I was exaggerating.
If the MTA really wanted to renovate the lines and deliver a WORLD-CLASS system to a WORLD-CLASS city, they would hire hundreds, if not thousands, of workers to get this work done. They would also have a high degree of oversight to ensure that each worker is actually doing something.
How many times have you gone into a store or a restaurant and saw 85+ percent of the employees hanging around, looking at their phone, chatting, or napping? Not very often because when employees do behave that way, they get fired. MTA workers deserve breaks but not in full view of the public, especially given the limited results of these construction projects.
I've not only witnessed this once or twice, I have seen it every single day there is construction. 85 percent or more of the "workers" are never actually working at any given construction site (no matter the time of day or night). I really wish I was exaggerating.
If the MTA really wanted to renovate the lines and deliver a WORLD-CLASS system to a WORLD-CLASS city, they would hire hundreds, if not thousands, of workers to get this work done. They would also have a high degree of oversight to ensure that each worker is actually doing something.
How many times have you gone into a store or a restaurant and saw 85+ percent of the employees hanging around, looking at their phone, chatting, or napping? Not very often because when employees do behave that way, they get fired. MTA workers deserve breaks but not in full view of the public, especially given the limited results of these construction projects.
8
Transit workers often don't have facilities to take their breaks in. Where are they supposed to go?
Working on the roadbed of the subway is nothing like working in a restaurant. A crane might be needed for an hour on Saturday morning and an hour on Sunday night. Should the crane operator(s) look busy between then?
Working on the roadbed of the subway is nothing like working in a restaurant. A crane might be needed for an hour on Saturday morning and an hour on Sunday night. Should the crane operator(s) look busy between then?
2
NY's subway system is the only system in the world that runs 24/7. This makes maintenance nearly impossible. Shut it down from 1A to 5:30A and add bus routes for those that need public transit during those hours when street traffic is relatively light. Do the maintenance and upgrades during those down hours.
14
I love Boston but it is an 17th century town (with an infrastructure to match) strangling in 21th century traffic. I know Boston fairly well as I went to school there and live an hour away but I loathe to go there. The traffic is a nightmare and getting out the way of those antiquated creaking, screaming ancient ,electric trains is worth your life.
I don't know how much business they are losing from people like me who used to go to Boston often to shop, go to museums and dinner but have second thoughts. I now go to Providence- easier, cheaper and saner.
Charlie- fix the MTA for God's sake or I'll never return!
I don't know how much business they are losing from people like me who used to go to Boston often to shop, go to museums and dinner but have second thoughts. I now go to Providence- easier, cheaper and saner.
Charlie- fix the MTA for God's sake or I'll never return!
1
Why fight traffic to go to Boston when Amazon can deliver just about anything that you might possibly want in two days maximum?
At a few dollars a head, multipled by 365, is around 4-5 billion money coming in each year. They could also raise the price a bit temporarily for added revenue. I think a lot of people would be happy to pay a little more to ride on something a litle more modern.
1
Forgot to mention that the announcement system is absolutely abhorrent. Did they not test the audio system beforehand? I can barely understand anything the engineer/conductor says given they're speaking clearly because there is:
1. Too much noise/static in the announcement or
2. Volume is too low with a lot of static/noise or
3. Volume is too high with too much static/noise.
There are rare occasions when it's a perfectly clear announcement but 95% of time, other passengers and I exchange looks of 'what they did they just say?'
I may be nit-picking certain aspects of the subway system that do not matter as much as reliability and efficiency, but if they're going to spend money on these systems and displays, please do it right. It's the bloodstream of the city and there's just too much plaque building up.
1. Too much noise/static in the announcement or
2. Volume is too low with a lot of static/noise or
3. Volume is too high with too much static/noise.
There are rare occasions when it's a perfectly clear announcement but 95% of time, other passengers and I exchange looks of 'what they did they just say?'
I may be nit-picking certain aspects of the subway system that do not matter as much as reliability and efficiency, but if they're going to spend money on these systems and displays, please do it right. It's the bloodstream of the city and there's just too much plaque building up.
Instead of grandstanding with "free" college education for all Gov. Cuomo shouls use those funds to overhaul the NYC subway signaling technology if not so appalling would be laughable. Updated signaling would improve efficiencies and service.
The cost could be shared by government grants and ridership, and it require lines to be closed during off-peak times to expedite installation and reduce inconvenience. Really, look at those photographs simply unacceptable.
The cost could be shared by government grants and ridership, and it require lines to be closed during off-peak times to expedite installation and reduce inconvenience. Really, look at those photographs simply unacceptable.
The fact is, just five short years ago, the reliability of the subway system was much better. Take it from this long term New Yorker--something is very wrong. The subway is in serious decline.
4
It galls me to no end that the MTA is spending $12 Billion to get several thousand LIRR riders a few blocks east in midtown while six million subway riders suffer delays nearly every day due to insufficient investment in essential infrastructure. This $12 Billion boondoggle known as the East Side Access Capital Project was not begun by Governor Cuomo, but by Governor Pataki, who, by the way, is also responsible for gutting the Rent Stabilization Law.
7
This might sounds heretical - especially from a life long New Yorker! - but why not consider shutting down the trains for few hours at night in order to facilitate maintenance and infrastructure projects? Late night partiers and overnight workers would suffer, but I think it's likely a worthwhile tradeoff for a better run system for everyone else.
9
That's not enough time.
Tax the black market economy including illegal undocumented workers who get paid in cash.
NYC//MTA//NYS is starving for $$ but give a free ride to folks who work off-the-books. NYC provide these folks with Medicaid, Food Stamps, Education, etc.
I'm not saying it's wrong but come on - enough is enough.
Tax the black market economy including illegal undocumented workers who get paid in cash.
NYC//MTA//NYS is starving for $$ but give a free ride to folks who work off-the-books. NYC provide these folks with Medicaid, Food Stamps, Education, etc.
I'm not saying it's wrong but come on - enough is enough.
2
I would guess that more riders are upset by loss of cellular connections in the tube than are even aware of the problems caused by the 90-yr old train control systems.
The Atlantic published a comprehensive article back 2015. Entitled "Why New York Subway Lines are Missing Countdown Clocks," the article documents a few glaring issues that today's NYT article missed.
Standing out was the MTA incestuous relationship with contractors, including Siemens, where a $13 million pilot for bus times was canceled one year later without achieving anything measurable.
The author of the Atlantic cited a 2009 report by the MTA's oversight organization showing that despite the contractor’s poor performance on that project, ATS program managers had been told by their supervisor not to give Siemens an overall “Unsatisfactory” rating, for fear that this would preclude it from participating in future projects.
The project was later handed over to a group of MIT grads hired to work at the MTA. Bus times were available just months later, and the entire system was completed for all of Manhattan at the cost of less than $10,000 per bus.
The MTA, like all organization, is not making progress in many cases because they lack the in-house technology expertise to complete the projects and are invested in traditional job preservation. This strikes at the heart of big government-funded institutions; the system is dedicated to preserving jobs over providing better service for riders.
Standing out was the MTA incestuous relationship with contractors, including Siemens, where a $13 million pilot for bus times was canceled one year later without achieving anything measurable.
The author of the Atlantic cited a 2009 report by the MTA's oversight organization showing that despite the contractor’s poor performance on that project, ATS program managers had been told by their supervisor not to give Siemens an overall “Unsatisfactory” rating, for fear that this would preclude it from participating in future projects.
The project was later handed over to a group of MIT grads hired to work at the MTA. Bus times were available just months later, and the entire system was completed for all of Manhattan at the cost of less than $10,000 per bus.
The MTA, like all organization, is not making progress in many cases because they lack the in-house technology expertise to complete the projects and are invested in traditional job preservation. This strikes at the heart of big government-funded institutions; the system is dedicated to preserving jobs over providing better service for riders.
10
CityLab does a better job than NYT on these issues. You are correct in saying that MTA/NYCT lacks in-house expertise to complete these projects. The Siemens/NYCT relationship is not as incestuous as you would think. NYCT made a mistake on the A-division control center system and Siemens won a $2.5M lawsuit against them for being idiots.
1
While reading this article I was reminded of an old family acquaintance who was a staff attorney for the MBTA in Boston. He had a political no show job and didn't even bother to go in for his weekly pay check as he had the T mail it to him for about 25 years. Different state, different time, but we all know that there are lots of people working at public service agencies who are political appointments. The Port Authority comes to mind. A friend of mine also helped design the Metro Card system as a consultant and she told me that getting anything done at the MTA was almost impossible, especially when dealing with unionized employees.
5
Everyday I tell myself to make a Twitter account so I can rant at the MTA directly. Why is there 'train traffic ahead of us' at 5:30 AM? Sometimes the 4 or 5 train would have blinking maps or symbols of 2/3 trains. I've been on a D train that had the Q symbol inside. So many tourists probably get screwed over by all the changes that happen on the weekends and weekday nights.
Oh and the arrival times on those touchscreens for the NQRW, such as the one in Union Square, are NOT on time - useless. They installed the overhead time displays for certain stations, but the downtown 49th Street station overhead display can also only be seen if you're directly underneath it because there is another electronic display that's right in front of it that blocks its view. Did people not think about the logistics when they decided to put that there???
I have been to cities in Asia and Europe and NYC has the whackiest and dirtiest subway system. Making excuses to those visiting, I say it has character. I understand that it's one of the oldest systems in the world and it may not be an easy fix but it has some serious catching up to do. The best I've seen is in Seoul where trains are without doubt reliable, platforms have airport style doors, clean usable bathrooms and even a breastfeeding room. I don't care for these amenities but at least make the subways more reliable. We need to catch up.
Oh and the arrival times on those touchscreens for the NQRW, such as the one in Union Square, are NOT on time - useless. They installed the overhead time displays for certain stations, but the downtown 49th Street station overhead display can also only be seen if you're directly underneath it because there is another electronic display that's right in front of it that blocks its view. Did people not think about the logistics when they decided to put that there???
I have been to cities in Asia and Europe and NYC has the whackiest and dirtiest subway system. Making excuses to those visiting, I say it has character. I understand that it's one of the oldest systems in the world and it may not be an easy fix but it has some serious catching up to do. The best I've seen is in Seoul where trains are without doubt reliable, platforms have airport style doors, clean usable bathrooms and even a breastfeeding room. I don't care for these amenities but at least make the subways more reliable. We need to catch up.
4
!. All human drivers should be replaced by robots.
2. All tunnels should be painted white (which even the cavemen knew).
3. All stations that are one flight down should have elevator access.
4. The MTA needs to maintain -- soap ( uinknown to this entity except for the super smelly one-- and lots of bleach) and water, and scrapping to get the gum off. ( Power washing -- always use a machine to do a job which can be done more effectively by hand -- does NOT work).. and not redecorate train stations. Paint peeling from ceilings in passenger waiting areas, dirty floors -- NOT to be tolerated.. But I am sure the kickbacks are much better on unnecessary construction projects such as the one just done at 168th St.. for the no1 train. The vaulted ceiling simply need washing it did not need a drop ceiling installed.. which BTW put extra weight on the old vault...and cost who knows how many millions as the MTA neglected to put up the signage that was in place when the 96th St. station was redone. ALSO what idiot makes the staircase step down at sidewalk level (only the 79th St. Irt station has a handrail to help the handicapped negotiate the step -- and most of the stops lack the yellow stripes that tell people something is a wry. Furthermore, the card reading machines often deduct incorrect amounts -- I had a 13$ card go to five dollars in three senior trips!!
5. Google trains should NOT need signals?? This seems to be old technology. Who gets the $$?
2. All tunnels should be painted white (which even the cavemen knew).
3. All stations that are one flight down should have elevator access.
4. The MTA needs to maintain -- soap ( uinknown to this entity except for the super smelly one-- and lots of bleach) and water, and scrapping to get the gum off. ( Power washing -- always use a machine to do a job which can be done more effectively by hand -- does NOT work).. and not redecorate train stations. Paint peeling from ceilings in passenger waiting areas, dirty floors -- NOT to be tolerated.. But I am sure the kickbacks are much better on unnecessary construction projects such as the one just done at 168th St.. for the no1 train. The vaulted ceiling simply need washing it did not need a drop ceiling installed.. which BTW put extra weight on the old vault...and cost who knows how many millions as the MTA neglected to put up the signage that was in place when the 96th St. station was redone. ALSO what idiot makes the staircase step down at sidewalk level (only the 79th St. Irt station has a handrail to help the handicapped negotiate the step -- and most of the stops lack the yellow stripes that tell people something is a wry. Furthermore, the card reading machines often deduct incorrect amounts -- I had a 13$ card go to five dollars in three senior trips!!
5. Google trains should NOT need signals?? This seems to be old technology. Who gets the $$?
3
1) You can't just replace train operators with robots, for several reasons. The biggest one being that your proposal is technologically unfeasible, as there's no infrastructure in place for it. And even a CBTC train like the L still requires a human operator at the controls, both for legal reasons, and because the train can't tell when there's a person on the roadbed and needs to stop.
2) Sounds like a great way to waste a whole lot of white paint. It's really, really filthy down there; all that white would be black in weeks.
3) Frankly, all stations should have elevator access. But if you thought the 2nd Ave Subway was expensive, wait until you see what it'd cost to build and maintain system-wide handicap accessibility.
2) Sounds like a great way to waste a whole lot of white paint. It's really, really filthy down there; all that white would be black in weeks.
3) Frankly, all stations should have elevator access. But if you thought the 2nd Ave Subway was expensive, wait until you see what it'd cost to build and maintain system-wide handicap accessibility.
4
Study up on BY FAR the world's most advanced rail system - Japan. You cannot believe what they deal with on a routine basis, their track system requires that they be so amazingly efficient at their timetables and design because they have to keep intertwining high speed and local trains without any collision. All day every day.
And amazingly, they found that they HAVE to use humans. Computers are just not smart enough, they would not be able to respond and adjust in any where near the proficiency of a person.
And amazingly, they found that they HAVE to use humans. Computers are just not smart enough, they would not be able to respond and adjust in any where near the proficiency of a person.
First, lets replace the Governor with a robot!
I only want to echo what others have said about our nation's desperate need for infrastructure spending. Instead, we've spend thirty seven years playing economic shell-games designed to engorge the pockets of the wealthy, while the rest of our nation and people are left to drift and crumble.
Think about what these subway delays mean in value lost for businesses. New York is one of the major hubs of the global economy, and yet, employees gamble with delays and lateness every day. What does this cost in productivity every year, versus the budget for bringing our transit system up to speed?
This is symptomatic of the short-term thinking that has swamped politics and business for too long. The cost and time to fix problems in the present is seen as "too expensive". The can keeps getting kicked down the road, with only patchwork repairs in place. That's unsustainable.
If we want to be competitive and a global leader in the 21st century, we need to stop sinking all of our money and talent into the military and the financial industry. We need to rebuild our infrastructure, in all its facets. Not only will this create jobs, but it will make average citizens proud of our nation again. It's easier to be optimistic about our nation's future were we to see new and updated improvements, instead of quick fixes made with bailing wire and duct tape.
Think about what these subway delays mean in value lost for businesses. New York is one of the major hubs of the global economy, and yet, employees gamble with delays and lateness every day. What does this cost in productivity every year, versus the budget for bringing our transit system up to speed?
This is symptomatic of the short-term thinking that has swamped politics and business for too long. The cost and time to fix problems in the present is seen as "too expensive". The can keeps getting kicked down the road, with only patchwork repairs in place. That's unsustainable.
If we want to be competitive and a global leader in the 21st century, we need to stop sinking all of our money and talent into the military and the financial industry. We need to rebuild our infrastructure, in all its facets. Not only will this create jobs, but it will make average citizens proud of our nation again. It's easier to be optimistic about our nation's future were we to see new and updated improvements, instead of quick fixes made with bailing wire and duct tape.
3
Reading between the lines, a large part of the problem is the resistance from New Yorkers to be inconvenienced. You can't run a subway 24/7/365 and expect maintenance to happen quickly with no disruptions.
Here in Boston, the MBTA announced that my local subway station, Wollaston on the Red Line, is going to be shut down for 20 months while they completely rebuild it before it crumbles apart. The community is furious and fuming, but the alternative is 10 years of weekend and night time shutdowns so they have time to do the work. New Yorkers are going to have to suck it up if they want to have a reliable subway in the future.
Here in Boston, the MBTA announced that my local subway station, Wollaston on the Red Line, is going to be shut down for 20 months while they completely rebuild it before it crumbles apart. The community is furious and fuming, but the alternative is 10 years of weekend and night time shutdowns so they have time to do the work. New Yorkers are going to have to suck it up if they want to have a reliable subway in the future.
3
Boston's transit system is genuinely run by idiots.
Isn't this the story of America? Republicans hate public transportation so those of us who use it are scorned and the money that should be set aside for repairs goes to new roads.
4
I'm certainly glad that Mr. Trump's pledge to repair, rebuild and add infrastructure is being kept. NOT!
He is keeping money from California's High-Speed-Train line as a punishment for CA going for Hillary and to please his rural anti-transit supporters who see transit as superfluous or even a luxury. Apparently to them, everyone lives the same rural lifestyle of a pickup truck, Walmart being 30 miles away, and a full gun rack.
So ridiculous is the money going to the unneeded wall in lieu of the very needed public transit sector.
He is keeping money from California's High-Speed-Train line as a punishment for CA going for Hillary and to please his rural anti-transit supporters who see transit as superfluous or even a luxury. Apparently to them, everyone lives the same rural lifestyle of a pickup truck, Walmart being 30 miles away, and a full gun rack.
So ridiculous is the money going to the unneeded wall in lieu of the very needed public transit sector.
5
So when a Democrat is in office 100 days and the repairs don't materialize - you get upset?
Do the big-shots of the MTA ride in subways, or in Limousines? From their viewpoint, having to transport middle and lower class wage slaves to their jobs, is an unfortunate side effect of the banking games that profit them personally.
Evidence? The high cost and low quality of the transit systems they are responsible for.
Evidence? The high cost and low quality of the transit systems they are responsible for.
2
Give it to the blokes from across the pond to fix - they seem to be better at it!
1
I would like to know what is MTA's CEO annual bonus and salary, compared to his London counterpart, of course. The whole MTA situation might be just an example of crass corporate mismanagement, Detroit-style.
Had the signal problem existed for such a long time, I am sure MTA would have found a way to express it publicly and lobby for its replacement or funding. I am sure New York Times can look into this side of the problem as well.
Had the signal problem existed for such a long time, I am sure MTA would have found a way to express it publicly and lobby for its replacement or funding. I am sure New York Times can look into this side of the problem as well.
2
Managing director of London Underground made, in USD, $0.5M/year in the mid 2000s. That's about 200% what his counterpart in NYC Transit made.
Back in 2011 or 2012, a Chinese student in Shanghai told me she had visited New York City and was surprised at how old the subways were.
They are decrepit because the bottom 90 percent of New Yorkers use them, while the top 10 percent make all the decisions. Throughout the country the same upper 10 per cent have acquired all the increase in US wealth since 1982.
They are decrepit because the bottom 90 percent of New Yorkers use them, while the top 10 percent make all the decisions. Throughout the country the same upper 10 per cent have acquired all the increase in US wealth since 1982.
12
It's an old story. Maintenance isn't sexy so no one wants to do it. In coop building it results in emergency repairs to unmaitanied systems that cost double or triple what regular maintenance and replacement would. It's the same for the MTA. They'd rather hire a million $$$ man from London and keep doing it over and over again than maintaining the rails and signals on a regular basis and replacing them on a schedule. As a result, it's an emergency every day and it's expensive not just for the MTA but for the people who have to use public transport to get to work. Of course that's not the May
Or or other top brass who can use a limo or in the mAyors case a helicopter.
Or or other top brass who can use a limo or in the mAyors case a helicopter.
2
How in the world can the subway system not have been making a profit, ever? They have been running the system for way over 50 years, not putting any capital dollars into the investment to keep it running, and performed maintenance as needed (when something is broken) not on a regular preventive maintenance schedule. Does anyone really believe the audits of money coming in and money going out?
5
And you base this skepticism on what data?
No transit system in the world operates at a profit!
these same problems also exist on the subway systems in DC and SF, despite the fact they were built in the 1970s. Transit systems in the US seem to not be run in a manner befitting a fully developed nation.
1
This has been the same issue since I was a student in the early 70's, at Hunter College. We were waiting for the 2nd Avenue subway FOREVER. Money has not been poured into the infrastructure. Companies, back in the day, left New York for the 'burbs because New York could not get its workforce to work on time due to a failing infrastructure. I guess the City had a "if it ain't broke don't fix it". attitude. Most of the major players are dead, will the infrastructure ever get better? I will be retiring soon!
5
Your story missed two important factors that contribute to the subway's current condition; trophy projects, those that politicians can crow about like the Second Ave subway that only travels 33 blocks and cost state tax payers billions. The second is the high cost of labor, three times more than it would cost to build or repair anywhere else, topped by work rules that dictate progress. There's a lot of blame to go around.
2
... And yet the proposed solution uses radio signals and transponders every 500ft? Surely in this day of emerging autonomous vehicles a new train or retrofit system could leverage LIDAR/Camera Technology and GPS to accomplish this goal without needing the extensive retrofit of the entire length of track? If Tesla can put semi-autonomous tractor-trailers on the road, surely there is a more state-of-the-art solution to this problem?
5
What better example of how this country's infrastructure is being allowed to crumble and held together with duck tape than the NYC subway system? And what catastrophic failure must occur to flip the switch from paralysis to action?
2
The Seattle area is working to make its public transit better. Some parts are now working quite well. We live on the North end of Mercer Island and can get most places rather easily. JGAIA
1
I am on the other side of 80years, and remember when the IRT had kerosene lamps as head lights. And you know, the subway ran better then without the delays and the violence of today.
5
Easy fix for this, subcontract new tunnels to the Vietnamese and signalling technology to the Japanese. The Japanese built the new metro in Delhi. India has far more problems than the US but with Japanese design and construction discipline built metros in some of the world's most densly populated cities. If you didn't get the tunneling thing, the Vietnamese had a vast underground system of tunnels that completely befuddled American military strategists during the Vietnam War.
It would be worthwhile to take a single paragraph to explain "where the money comes from" and "where the money goes." The MTA clearly explains it in their budget: $9.5 Billion in labor related costs (out of $15.7B budget!). Transport for London dedicates close to one third of their overall budget to capital improvements. Given that the MTA's non-labor and non-debt service share only comes up to 24%, actual capital expenditure for improvements must be bupkis. The real question is what crazy politician will question close to $10 Billion dollars in labor expenses to actually improve the situation? Certainly not Mr. Cuomo nor any other politician for that matter. I would hope that decent journalists would.
5
Right now they are getting to a point where they will have to take drastic action. Sure you don't want to upset your passengers but as old as the switching system is, what happens if it completely fails. Then you'll have a whole line shut down for who knows how long instead of a station of two for weekends to get the work done. I lived in London while they were doing the upgrades and yes it was painful, but you learned to work around it. Come on NY, put your big girl pants on and suck it up. People will be upset, but not as upset if the whole thing goes down.
12
Janet C: "Sure you don't want to upset your passengers but as old as the switching system is, what happens if it completely fails. Then you'll have a whole line shut down for who knows how long instead of a station of two for weekends to get the work done."
Janet's right - except that when a switching or signal system fails completely and the line has to be shut down, riders and politicians will accept it (however grudgingly). Try shutting down a line temporarily to fix something before it breaks, and riders and politicians will insist that there's got to be some other way to fix it that will both happen quickly and not inconvenience them.
Janet's right - except that when a switching or signal system fails completely and the line has to be shut down, riders and politicians will accept it (however grudgingly). Try shutting down a line temporarily to fix something before it breaks, and riders and politicians will insist that there's got to be some other way to fix it that will both happen quickly and not inconvenience them.
1
Run by progressives??? I see it somewhat as typical whoever in government runs things does not properly maintain and update them, nor do they want to increase the revenues to actually properly do so. A business would be bankrupt if they did these things. Folks like to stay in charge rather than do the job properly. Now I bet they will be whining for federal funds, which they should only get some, like maybe 10% of the cost of doing things correctly.
3
running things usually takes money, whether in fhe form higher fares or subsidies. Barring these, we need to used to less functional services. Plus the US is plagued by typically US problems that make things more expensive and time consuming than usual (i.e., affirmative action, "minority" rights in contracting, etc.).
"Progressives" like Rudy Guiliani (1994-2001), or Michael Bloomberg (2002-2013)? That's two full decades under *Republican* mayors. Try using some actual facts for a change.
And if the current "administration" of his Royal Orange-ness has shown quite clearly, government is *NOT* as simple or as easy as running a business. Obviously, his followers are even slower than he is.
And if the current "administration" of his Royal Orange-ness has shown quite clearly, government is *NOT* as simple or as easy as running a business. Obviously, his followers are even slower than he is.
5
I don't envy the Metropolitan Transportation Agency's job when it comes time to upgrade NYC's subway system; not one bit.
3
Their job is tough, indeed! But, what about being, especially a Public School teacher, in the outer Boroughs, where a polyglot of languages have sprung up, certainly in the last twenty years, but you are still required to have your charges cinch your curriculum and exam, whether in your English class, or a discipline where English is used?! Now, that's really tough!!!
2
How did these same (or fewer) tracks and stations accommodate more riders in 1937 than are served today? See ridership data at https://vimeo.com/93485551 video time frame 00:20
4
Mainly it's that the emergency braking rates on trains in the latter 20th century were not as high, and NYC Transit only discovered that this mismatches the signal designs when trains collided on the Williamsburg Bridge and killed people. They had to then put a cap on acceleration and top speed. They introduced timer signals to get some rudimentary speed control.
But more to your point, it's not that through-capacity is lacking. It's also that their schedule design practices don't make it easy to run high frequencies. So, every time they try to run closer to the edge of capacity, the lateness of the trains mounts up (due to poor scheduling design) and eventually the operations folks complain - and then service gets cut.
But more to your point, it's not that through-capacity is lacking. It's also that their schedule design practices don't make it easy to run high frequencies. So, every time they try to run closer to the edge of capacity, the lateness of the trains mounts up (due to poor scheduling design) and eventually the operations folks complain - and then service gets cut.
3
Thanks for the information.
What an embarrassment! What an embarrassment. In 6 years that I live here the ticket has gone up almost 20%, and I have not seen much improvement. The intercom system is on par w/ WWI communication. Some subway stations resemble scenes from zombie survival horror video games.
I guess until the 1% will take helicopters into the city the rest of us will have to smell trash.
What a disappointment.
I guess until the 1% will take helicopters into the city the rest of us will have to smell trash.
What a disappointment.
3
When I visited London for the first time, I was very impressed by alerts in underground stations, telling riders how quickly the next train would be arriving. This was in 1987!! The MTA didn't begin installing alerts like these in NYC until more than 20 years later. How is it that it took so long for New York to catch up with London in this area? Where have our transit dollars been going?
2
local transit organizations in the US, whether they be in DC, SF or other cities, are pretty inept.
1
I hate to sound like a Tea Partier, but there is no lack of spending at the MTA. There is currently about $75 billion in capital spending happening right now. Compared to other cities around the world, that's a ludicrous amount.
4
How about modern everything?
1
that costs money, down time on the system. Doubt riders will appreciate the higher fares, delays.
That photo of the signaling technology is straight outta Steampunk. It's not antiquated - it's totally retro and hip!
5
The MTA shares the poster for union reform with the Teachers Union. Let me emphasize UNION reform, not member reform. Its very important to split the difference. The workers are amazing, but the orgs are shady cartels that enjoy cloaks of zero accountability. Did anyone else notice that the 2nd Ave subway doesnt have a modern switching system? Why is that true? Its brand new!!!
4
Did anyone else notice that the 2nd Ave subway doesnt have a modern switching system? Why is that true? Its brand new!!!
switching systems at individual platforms need to be integrated into the system as a whole, not on a stand alone basis. That's not how they work.
switching systems at individual platforms need to be integrated into the system as a whole, not on a stand alone basis. That's not how they work.
3
As reported by the Daily News today - MTA workers walked away with a whopping $1billion of overtime last year. You can safely bet that most of this overtime was spent either doing nothing or working inefficiently. The whole system is just one big gravy train for their greedy union and the innocent straphanger foots the bill, not only in increased fares but in money lost in their everyday lives from not being able to get to where they're going on time due to the fact that our public transport system cannot have the upgrades it needs. Not a single politician in this city has the guts to stand up to the TWU and end this wasteful greed. You know why? Follow the money.
16
Or maybe, just maybe, those workers get paid overtime for working nights and weekends to lessen the impact to their fellow NYers during the main working hours of the weekdays. Just maybe.
I ride the subway constantly, and have been in the system at all hours and seven days a week, and the work is being done mostly during off hours. If I had to work nights and weekends, I'd expect to be paid overtime. Why are NYCT workers an exception?
I ride the subway constantly, and have been in the system at all hours and seven days a week, and the work is being done mostly during off hours. If I had to work nights and weekends, I'd expect to be paid overtime. Why are NYCT workers an exception?
4
I have commuted between suburban DC and NYC for the entire 21st. century. My commute includes the DC Metro, Amtrak and the NY subway. It is no contest---the NY subway wins hands-down for reliability! It may be old and creaky, but it has some redundancy (at least in Manhattan) that provide options; and, despite its age, hats off to the workers who keep it going! The newcomers (both the Decela and the pathetic Metro, which is only 40 years old) have left me in no-man's land more times than I care to remember. The Metro, in particular, has multiple disruptions on an almost daily basis, despite its promised improvements--and it costs 2-3 times as much as the NY subway.
So, yes, improvements are overdue. Nonetheless, NY subway and your employees--I commend you for doing your best to keep moving despite the increased demand!
So, yes, improvements are overdue. Nonetheless, NY subway and your employees--I commend you for doing your best to keep moving despite the increased demand!
41
Pretty dismal.
2
Better call Elon.
3
"Amtrak, which owns the station, plans to close several tracks for repairs that will disrupt service this summer on New Jersey Transit and the Long Island Rail Road, two of the nation’s busiest commuter railroads."
Two of the busiest?
Maybe I am blind but aren't the two biggest, by far?
Could you please tell me what the top commuter lines are? Or update the article?
Thanks
Two of the busiest?
Maybe I am blind but aren't the two biggest, by far?
Could you please tell me what the top commuter lines are? Or update the article?
Thanks
3
The PATH train's signaling system has recently been upgraded. Sure, it's only 13 stations, but it was done by the MTA-like Port Authority and in relatively decent time. There were weekend closures all last year, but you deal with it. Stay home or take the bus. Whatever.
1
That's not a good example. The time schedule is not that different.
In the photo of installing upgraded switch equipment at 34th Street there are 6 workers in the photo and only 1 working ! ! ! No wonder cost overruns and delays !
4
I see 4 workers, not 6. And there's a very valid reason the others aren't working; all repair crews include flaggers whose job it is to make sure that the trains are aware of their presence on the roadbed so no one gets run over. Also, this crew is doing a lot more than just working on that switch right there; you just don't see what the rest of them were supposed to do in the photo.
2
I imagine there are challenges of "colors of money", but what fraction of the egregious $4 billion spent on the grandiose WTC transit hub would be sufficient to advance the train control system toy, perhaps, late 20th century standards?
2
Am I the only one writing ho remembers how much worse the subways were from the late-’60’s through the ’80’s?
Unbelievable improvements followed. These cry baby commenters don't know of the filthy, crime-ridden, graffiti covered trains, the grimy, dark stations, dimly incandescent-lit, tiles fallen from the walls? VERY scary! Breakdowns so regular, with a 2-hour delay, between station, a/c cutting a week. Daily “this train is going out of service. Another train is following shortly” announcements (always a lie).
These people have no notion how much BETTER, cleaner, more efficient and reliable the system is now! Bright, florescent-lit platforms, retiled, with ceramic art, crime, graffiti gone!
Now, that is not to say we are in danger of back-sliding. And, after 60 years of NYC population at 7.1-7.5 million, it's amazingly now 8.5 million!
Is it possible the MTA is back-sliding into the same pre-1985 'decay mode? Of course! There MUST be investigations and fixes. (Do NOT blame those track workers! Or 'Unions'! Please!)
And why do signal upgrades creep, but we've seen wifi added everywhere in 2 years, and train info signs mushroom overnight!? What explains THAT?
There are legitimate questions. All in all, though, all these gripers seem to have NO CLUE as to how much better the whole system is now. That brought new riders, and made the city ripe for today's gentrification.
So, sure, lets get cracking again. But grow up people! The trains are a dream these days!
Unbelievable improvements followed. These cry baby commenters don't know of the filthy, crime-ridden, graffiti covered trains, the grimy, dark stations, dimly incandescent-lit, tiles fallen from the walls? VERY scary! Breakdowns so regular, with a 2-hour delay, between station, a/c cutting a week. Daily “this train is going out of service. Another train is following shortly” announcements (always a lie).
These people have no notion how much BETTER, cleaner, more efficient and reliable the system is now! Bright, florescent-lit platforms, retiled, with ceramic art, crime, graffiti gone!
Now, that is not to say we are in danger of back-sliding. And, after 60 years of NYC population at 7.1-7.5 million, it's amazingly now 8.5 million!
Is it possible the MTA is back-sliding into the same pre-1985 'decay mode? Of course! There MUST be investigations and fixes. (Do NOT blame those track workers! Or 'Unions'! Please!)
And why do signal upgrades creep, but we've seen wifi added everywhere in 2 years, and train info signs mushroom overnight!? What explains THAT?
There are legitimate questions. All in all, though, all these gripers seem to have NO CLUE as to how much better the whole system is now. That brought new riders, and made the city ripe for today's gentrification.
So, sure, lets get cracking again. But grow up people! The trains are a dream these days!
38
You are correct that overall it has improved since those dark days. That doesn't mean they get a pass for not being more forward thinking regarding the signals.
The unions are indeed an issue.
You cite the example of the free wifi being done relatively quickly. Well it was not paid for by us taxpayers. It was done with private money. That's why it got finished relatively quickly. Had it not been - we'd still be at least 5 years away from that service now.
The unions are indeed an issue.
You cite the example of the free wifi being done relatively quickly. Well it was not paid for by us taxpayers. It was done with private money. That's why it got finished relatively quickly. Had it not been - we'd still be at least 5 years away from that service now.
2
Yes, the system and the city has improved over the past 40 years, but that does not negate the fact that we are decades behind the rest of the world.
The cultural improvements of the system and city are not enough. We, being NEW YORK CITY, should have the best system in the world!
If China can build Shanghai in 20 years and UAE can build Dubai in roughly the same time, we can do better. We SHOULD do better.
We MUST hold Albany accountable and the MTA must be purged from top to bottom. If the MTA were a private company, it would have been sued into oblivion or beat out by a competitor.
The cultural improvements of the system and city are not enough. We, being NEW YORK CITY, should have the best system in the world!
If China can build Shanghai in 20 years and UAE can build Dubai in roughly the same time, we can do better. We SHOULD do better.
We MUST hold Albany accountable and the MTA must be purged from top to bottom. If the MTA were a private company, it would have been sued into oblivion or beat out by a competitor.
People DO love to complain. I also grew up and lived here 50 years, and remember well the horrors of the old school trains. People love to romanticize, "It was so cool back then", but really it WASN'T. Frankly it could slow, scary, dangerous given the wrong moments. The noise, the graffiti, litter, delays in service... oy.
That said, OF COURSE we need infrastructure revamp; AND HOW. Now is the time to plan, and invest. Nothing is getting younger, within the giant clunking system.
That said, OF COURSE we need infrastructure revamp; AND HOW. Now is the time to plan, and invest. Nothing is getting younger, within the giant clunking system.
Sadly, the problems described here are systemic and you can't stop the trains, rip out existing infrastructure and start fresh. This is unlike the Tappan Zee or Koscuisco (sp?) bridge replacements where they simply build another one adjacent to the failed structure.
2
The Swiss used the same approach when they replaced some 'time expired' viaducts.
1
There is a very plain reason for the fact that a project to change the signals on the subway system is estimated to take at least till 2045 to be completed. And that is that for some reason the ability to build subway lines themselves is something that we no longer have the capability of doing. Today simply building a couple of new stops on the 2nd Ave. subway line took years, and the plan to extend it in both directions, in particular downtown seems to be beyond our capability.
Contrast that with the speed and efficiency with which the subway lines were built back in the early 20th century. And in addition to the speed in which they built subway lines, building subway lines was so feasible back then that privately owned companies funded their construction and competed with each other and each turned a profit.
And this is in regard to subway lines. Building trolley lines was something that took a matter of a few months. Just about every major thoroughfare had a trolley line. Today the city is planning on building a single trolley line, to go from Greenpoint to Sunset Park, and if things go according to plan it shall take no longer than 5 years to build.
It is clear beyond a doubt that it is beyond our capabilities to build the subway system today. What has changed is not clear. But whatever the reason is, is the reason that a project to change the signal system on the subway is slated to take longer than the time it took for the whole of the subway system to be built.
Contrast that with the speed and efficiency with which the subway lines were built back in the early 20th century. And in addition to the speed in which they built subway lines, building subway lines was so feasible back then that privately owned companies funded their construction and competed with each other and each turned a profit.
And this is in regard to subway lines. Building trolley lines was something that took a matter of a few months. Just about every major thoroughfare had a trolley line. Today the city is planning on building a single trolley line, to go from Greenpoint to Sunset Park, and if things go according to plan it shall take no longer than 5 years to build.
It is clear beyond a doubt that it is beyond our capabilities to build the subway system today. What has changed is not clear. But whatever the reason is, is the reason that a project to change the signal system on the subway is slated to take longer than the time it took for the whole of the subway system to be built.
4
"What has changed is not clear."
Might it possibly be due to more useless, parasitic , self-serving bureaucrats and the stupid regulations that they use as an excuse for their poor performance?
Might it possibly be due to more useless, parasitic , self-serving bureaucrats and the stupid regulations that they use as an excuse for their poor performance?
When I was a kid, long ago in the Bronx, the subway was the same: crowded, smelly, sometimes unpredictable, noisy and dirty. But it opened new worlds, new places, access to majestic and intellectual things and widened my view of the world to come and undefinable possibilities.
3
The fat cat robber barons who run the MTA, a publicly funded private company, make millions for themselves, and don't even ride the subway (or any public transportation). They continually cry poor, while with greater frequency, raise fares on working New Yorkers, who depend on this monopoly, to get to and from work, so they may hope to afford the ever increasing costs, while the system continues to disintegrate. And this is the best public transit system America can present. To quote another prime exemplar of American waste and failure, "Sad!"
2
Sorry but the compensation is public info. It's not the "fat cats". It's the "rank and file" members pension and healthcare costs that eat up the biggest chunk of the budget. You can look it up.
5
The entire system should be operated by a private company. With a profit incentive, the system would be more efficient. State and local governments are incapable of managing transportation systems because of political influence.
2
If you want it to cost $15 a ride....
1
The entire system should be operated by state and local governments. Without a profit motive, the system is more efficient. A private company would be incapable of managing a public transportation system because of greed.
Fixed it for ya.
Fixed it for ya.
3
Maybe United Airlines? You have got to be kidding. Private corporations are interested in one thing only, PROFIT!
1
And yet MTA fares are so far advanced....
4
While I appreciate that the NYT is highlighting this critical issue, I find it odd and troubling that the article makes no mention of the Transit Workers Union, or the fact that for some reason the MTA requires that the current signaling system be maintained even if a new CBTC system is put in place (the two running as a redundant system). The MTA will claim this is for safety, but it seems likely that the requirement to continue using the old system is more about preserving labor that would be eliminated with a new system that required less (off hour, OT) maintenance. The Atlantic has a good piece on the challenges with upgrading the MTA signals, which raises these issues:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-...
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/why-dont-we-know-...
4
Surely it would be unwise, even unsafe, to simply shutdown the existing signalling system then switch on the new one.That train of thought would lead to chaos.
1
True that the transit Unions have been given by Congress way too much power to strangle the public, but this statement is not accurate as far as I know:
"...the MTA requires that the current signaling system be maintained even if a new CBTC system is put in place"
"...the MTA requires that the current signaling system be maintained even if a new CBTC system is put in place"
1
From an engineering point of view, any critical system should be duplicated. In the long run, and we are here for the long run, unless we wipe ourselves out, it would be useful for all kinds of reasons to have more choices on subway lines. Roughly parallel lines so sections can be entirely shut down for repairs and upgrades.
That's an idealized system that would never come into existence in real life. Consider a system that would cost roughly double what the current system costs but would only be utilized at 50% capacity. No real life city operates can operate in this manner.
I rode those trains for many years. I would prefer air-conditioning that worked rather than new signals.
1
One line of thought that is missed here is the role and importance of substitute modes of transportation. Yes, the subways need to be upgraded. This is crucial.
But at the same time, the burden on the subway system can be lessened by making much cheaper investments on the ground. The city has done a decent job expanding bike lanes, but it is still extremely dangerous to ride a bike. I would love to ride to work, but I'm terrified to do so. I know many more who feel the same way.
Creating new bike lanes and designing them with safety in mind would decrease demand for the subway by providing a viable substitute. And it doesn't cost billions to convert on street parking into bike lanes with proper divisions to keep cars and trucks out.
On that same topic, increase the cost of on street parking and use that to help fund mass transit. It is an absurd waste of space to dedicate entire lanes so that ten individuals can park their cars for pennies. You couldn't dream up a less efficient mode of transportation.
Surface land is extremely valuable and should be dedicated to public transit, not wasted as private storage.
These are simple changes that can help solve the transit equation.
But at the same time, the burden on the subway system can be lessened by making much cheaper investments on the ground. The city has done a decent job expanding bike lanes, but it is still extremely dangerous to ride a bike. I would love to ride to work, but I'm terrified to do so. I know many more who feel the same way.
Creating new bike lanes and designing them with safety in mind would decrease demand for the subway by providing a viable substitute. And it doesn't cost billions to convert on street parking into bike lanes with proper divisions to keep cars and trucks out.
On that same topic, increase the cost of on street parking and use that to help fund mass transit. It is an absurd waste of space to dedicate entire lanes so that ten individuals can park their cars for pennies. You couldn't dream up a less efficient mode of transportation.
Surface land is extremely valuable and should be dedicated to public transit, not wasted as private storage.
These are simple changes that can help solve the transit equation.
1
This rather neatly illustrates the nature and depth of the problem. "“Fifty years is way too far out there,” Thomas F. Prendergast, former chairman of the authority, said in his final interview before leaving the job in January. “We have to find a way to shorten that.” Now, it's a question of whether the subways will be rendered unnecessary as increasing automation reduces the size of the workforce and the number of tasks requiring human intervention. It is doubtful that the resources to literally replace the sub-surface and surface transportation systems will ever be available but it would be helpful to recognize this at the outset and realistically assess the politicians wavering commitments before pouring more money into this literal rathole.
Hey! That's what you get, when everyone wants to come to New York City! Especially, Brooklyn! And nobody thought of over saturation, without updating infrastructure, as you go! How sweet it is?!!! PS Plus, now you really have a tower of Babel going, like never before...Oy.
2
As a Midwesterner, may I ask, what do riders do when a line is closed? Can they take the bus, or what?
1
There are four alternatives to the train into New York City from NJ - you could drive, take the bus, the ferry or if you are a Wall Street fat cat, you could take the helicopter.
1
It totally depends on where you are coming from and where you are going. Some people have a not-too-distant alternative, as in an alternate subway that they could take, but it could be farther away at either or both ends, and probably would take longer. Buses are another alternative but they take much longer than the subway and make more frequent stops (other than the express buses that run to more distant locations in the city), plus buses are subject to the same vagaries as the rest of NYC street traffic.
I'm sure the unions are wholeheartedly supporting change and improvement in the system. Democrat city leaders know they will lose union votes if they champion improvements, so you the riders are the ones who get the short end. Lack of investment in infrastructure seems to be endemic in democrat run cities until it becomes a crisis. Whine, whine, whine... but never actually do anything, let it become a crisis then blame the nearest republican and ask for a bailout.
Your photo titled "A worker installing upgraded switch equipment on a track under 34th Street.." says it all - one person working and five simply standing around. If this is the norm for MTA workers, no wonder the system is in such deep trouble.
3
Honestly! How could you suggest such a thing? Isn't it obvious, the others are giving the chap encouragement.
2
What a ridiculous notion.
You do realize that they could just as easily "staged" a photo opp where multiple workers in the frame are kneeling and appearing to do something?
You do realize that they could just as easily "staged" a photo opp where multiple workers in the frame are kneeling and appearing to do something?
If the city's billionaires - including the one serving as President part-time - rode the subway every day, do you suppose maintenance would have been deferred this long?
Where did you get the 6 million ridership figure?
Cities like New York and Chicago need to embark on twenty five year plans to move their rail systems out of the nineteenth century, preparing them for the twenty second. Everything from seats to cars to communications and power systems needs to be redesigned, ripped out and replaced. Go at it one or two lines at a time. Shut the impacted lines down, use a bus fleet and blocked streets for the year or two that it takes to complete the work. The human race has made spectacular technological progress over the past one hundred years. It is time that the population at large was rewarded with spacious, comfortable and safe mass transit. In the airline industry, every inch is reclaimed in the name of profit, this mentality needs to end. The public has paid and worked for a century of technical advances beyond any imaginable, it needs to be rewarded with the fruits of its labor. Hedge fund managers and CEOs will just need to sacrifice one of their helicopters or limo's to help fund a better infrastructure for the millions who have enabled their spectacular gains.
20
NYC always suffers from the West Side highway syndrome. Why spend money on huge capital improvements when you can pass it on to the next administration? Obviously the great age of infrastructure projects has passed and the city can no longer afford the improvements. Another factor in the decline of the quality of life and the increasing exodus from the City.
1
If it works, don't fix it.
The politicians are long on promises but very short on action. This neglect, which has its roots in a corrupt political system, is unconscionable and just another example of utter neglect of our infrastructure with the motto, the people be damned!!
1
Very few on here want to mention the real problem - and neither does the NY Tines. The work rukes and pensions for the transit union workers. The executives are a tiny portion even though it's popular to blame them. London has good pensions - but as the article noted - they pay much higher fares and get more grants from the British government than NY. You can't have it both ways. Each year more and more of the fare goes towards paying ballooning pension costs. That will make upgrading the system even harder in a decade. Start cutting all pensions for new workers so in 20 years it will at least be manageable instead of an albatross. Shut down the lines completely at night. That is a trade off too. London doesn't run 24 hours so it's easier for them. So while it still wouldn't be as fast as London it would be faster than what exists now!
3
So how much of the money collected goes to pensions? Please quote a reliable source not just you opinion
1
John Lusk. I don't have to quote. It's public information. Anyone can look it up online.
They stopped topping up future liabilities, so actually they should be putting aside more, but they decide not to because they can't keep cutting service and raising fares.
By all means... eliminate the alternative minimum tax.
2
You are being sarcastic, of course. I agree with your point. If I may make a similar one here:
The article has us throwing our hands up in the air in frustration, perhaps by design. Matters of money are frequently cast as Hatfields vs. McCoys. I want to cut through that.
In the richest nation in the world there is plenty of money for our nation's infrastructure if billionaires and large, profitable corporations resume paying their fair share of taxes. Increasingly over the past 40 years they haven't. And we must use that money efficiently—government must be nominally large enough to provide oversight for the projects—and the tax dodgers. To do that we must clean house from local races to Washington; to do that we must get big money out of politics. Begin with putting an end to Citizens United.
One sees, it's not all that complicated and certainly not hopeless.
The article has us throwing our hands up in the air in frustration, perhaps by design. Matters of money are frequently cast as Hatfields vs. McCoys. I want to cut through that.
In the richest nation in the world there is plenty of money for our nation's infrastructure if billionaires and large, profitable corporations resume paying their fair share of taxes. Increasingly over the past 40 years they haven't. And we must use that money efficiently—government must be nominally large enough to provide oversight for the projects—and the tax dodgers. To do that we must clean house from local races to Washington; to do that we must get big money out of politics. Begin with putting an end to Citizens United.
One sees, it's not all that complicated and certainly not hopeless.
1
currentky in Copenhagen where transportation is efficient and they are adding new metro stations. many good models in the world, get on it Congress.
3
I shake my head in dismay at references to the subway system being "overburdened." More people are paying to ride the subways -- and this is an excuse for deteriorating service? That increase in revenue is creating a problem for the managers of the subway system? You think Macy's would bemoan more customers?
3
Wow. In the lead image of the article I recognized the same control board from the 1970's movie "The Taking Of Pelham 123". And it was old then.
Perhaps off point, the article gives me renewed appreciation for the engineers of the early 20th century. They knew how to build analog mechanical devices that lasted way beyond a reasonable service life.
Perhaps off point, the article gives me renewed appreciation for the engineers of the early 20th century. They knew how to build analog mechanical devices that lasted way beyond a reasonable service life.
4
The math in this article proves that the overcrowding problems can be solved with the existing signaling technology. The article states that the existing signaling allows for 29 trains per hour, or a train every 2 minutes. If trains ran consistently every 2 minutes, there wouldn't be any overcrowding.
We don't need technology to allow for additional trains, The MTA needs better processes (either automated or manual) to prevent the trains from getting bunched up and delayed.
Anyone that rides frequently knows that once a gap arises (e.g. 8 minutes until the next uptown 4 train at rush hour), the situation will keep getting worse. The train arrives overcrowded, the conductor can't close the doors, and the delay gets worse.
The MTA can solve the core overcrowding problems with the existing signal technology. They just need to apply some common sense, improve their dispatching processes, and deploy whatever manpower is needed to keep the trains moving with 2 minute headways.
We don't need technology to allow for additional trains, The MTA needs better processes (either automated or manual) to prevent the trains from getting bunched up and delayed.
Anyone that rides frequently knows that once a gap arises (e.g. 8 minutes until the next uptown 4 train at rush hour), the situation will keep getting worse. The train arrives overcrowded, the conductor can't close the doors, and the delay gets worse.
The MTA can solve the core overcrowding problems with the existing signal technology. They just need to apply some common sense, improve their dispatching processes, and deploy whatever manpower is needed to keep the trains moving with 2 minute headways.
2
As One Who Knows, I can say you're pretty close to being correct. It's not only dispatching but mostly it's schedule design. If you can get these two things both right, then you can run a lot of service. Minor modifications to the signaling in certain places can help, too... But absolutely, common sense... it's not sexy, but it works.
The technology in the lead photograph looks the same as when the original 'The Taking of Pelham 123' was made...43 years ago.
3
The problem isn't a lack of investment.
The problem is that the public having made the investment, the work was repeatedly not done.
Funds were raided, mistakes were made, powerful people needed to wet their beaks, they ran out of gas, they had a flat tire, they didn't have enough money for cab fare, an old friend came in from out of town, someone stole their car, there was an earthquake, a terrible flood (okay, there WAS a terrible flood), locusts...it wasn't their fault, they swear to g*d...
The problem is that the public having made the investment, the work was repeatedly not done.
Funds were raided, mistakes were made, powerful people needed to wet their beaks, they ran out of gas, they had a flat tire, they didn't have enough money for cab fare, an old friend came in from out of town, someone stole their car, there was an earthquake, a terrible flood (okay, there WAS a terrible flood), locusts...it wasn't their fault, they swear to g*d...
7
Sure we can update the trains, but we have to use these outdated sensors that just so happen to be manufactured by my cousin. And we have to hire my brother-in-law's construction workers to install them. And they have to be supervised by my uncle's management company. Of course none of this can begin before my son's safety-inspection company does a full year-long surveillance. And who could forget the board of directors? Have to fork over something to them since they were so kind as to give us their blessing to run their business for them. But so long as my college roommate's cleaning company gets the contract for making sure there's no debris afterwords.. I'm sure we have enough money to actually get the job done! Wait.. now where did it all go? We should ask for more next time...
2
Did anyone here ever own a Chevette? I had one and it got to be so unreliable that I hated to drive it more than about 10 miles at a time. It did spend a lot of time "off line" with the mechanic. However even the mechanic was unable to work a miracle with that car. That's what our entire transportation system in the New York metro area is beginning to remind me of: my trusty reliably unreliable Chevette. As a result of owning that car I have never again bought car from GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Everyone I knew had the same complaints about cars from those companies. The abysmal state of the transportation infrastructure is the biggest reason why I never ever searched for a job in NYC.
3
Not rocket science. If you want a new subway, raise the bonds to pay for it, then raise taxes to pay off the bonds. It's just that easy.
1
How about some greater demands for accountability and effectiveness before the usual "raise taxes" mantra?
3
That is a financing problem, not a design and implementation problem.
And I'm sure a cure for cancer will be found if we just look a little bit harder, right?
1
This is why remote work needs to become more common. Tons of jobs that interest me are moving to the tip of Manhattan, but my everyday ride to Soho from uptown was a daily nightmare. The F train would stop between stations around 4 times per ride, and a commute that should take 45 minutes often took over one hour (and sometimes even an hour and a half). I can't even consider working downtown again, let alone at the tip of Manhattan.
The subway system is hampering New York City to an incredible degree.
The subway system is hampering New York City to an incredible degree.
14
Well your last comment gets it a little backward. NY is dynamic partly because of the subway. The subway is a victim of its own success. Political folly is what prevents it from meeting the current needs its success brought on.
1
Hold the phone. According to the MTA website, they have 277 stations currently enabled with wifi. At any given moment, there are hundreds of thousands of GPS-enabled smartphones connected to this wifi super-network. Yet the MTA "cannot identify precisely where trains are". How many administrative salaries does one have to pay to run a network scan and map the locations of these devices? Am I taking crazy pills? Does the MTA actually employ anyone to think about how to fix this problem? Or is their solution to do nothing and ask for more and more taxpayer money until a catastrophic system failure brings the tired system crashing down?
6
The smartphones might help locate trains in the 277 stations but won't do anything to locate the trains running underground between stations since wifi doesn't operate there. They might be used to locate trains traveling between stations above ground, however.
The problem from what I understand is that while the MTA has WI-FI underground it's signal degrades the more people (riders) are using it. As we all know it makes it easier to hack with the potential to create real havoc on the trains.
Yes, you're taking crazy pills, but also, this article is sloppily written and misleads the reader. I could explain it to you, and for sure NYC Transit's management is not extremely talented. They know where all the trains are, all the time. GPS would do nothing, and cell phones would do nothing for them, except to track passengers. Signaling has to do with keeping the safe spacing between trains. There are a range of accepted technologies for signaling, GPS is not one of them.
1
I sure would like to meet the guys who maintain the instruments. I suspect they work miracles getting aged equipment to work, when even the original manufacturer has long gone. Does the subway use 'block signalling'?
5
It's not as difficult as you think.
1
"It's not as difficult as you think"
Really? Please expand on your statement or could you recommend a source of information if possible. I am fascinated. Aged electro-mechanical switching has always interested me.
Really? Please expand on your statement or could you recommend a source of information if possible. I am fascinated. Aged electro-mechanical switching has always interested me.
1
The thing in the photo is called a relay. Even the newer Automatic Train Control systems use relays. They are used to encode the logic for what a signal aspect should be, based on the inputs from the track circuits. The track circuits themselves are copper wired and in wayside signalling like in NY, are based on the concept that when the two rails are connected by a heavy object (a train), a circuit is made, reflecting occupancy in that circuit (which represents a section of track averaging 500 feet long, which can be from 50 feet minimum to 1500 feet maximum). In late 1960s era technology, this was done via audio-frequency circuits. One rail becomes the detector for occupancy within the circuit, between a transmitter at one end of the track section (also 50 feet to 1500 feet) and a receiver. Relays still handle the logic for the speed codes given.
Basically the signal maintenance people replace relays when they get beyond a certain age, because the wires deteriorate with usage (like any copper wiring). If the enclosure is not made any more, they can take it apart and put new copper wires in it. The contacts are gold and so they don't lose conductivity.
Very few places in the US use solid-state vital technology. One of them happens to be in the NY City subway: the Bergen Street Interlocking on the F line, which was the first solid-state interlocking in the US. London did some solid-state interlockings on the Central Line in the 1990s.
Basically the signal maintenance people replace relays when they get beyond a certain age, because the wires deteriorate with usage (like any copper wiring). If the enclosure is not made any more, they can take it apart and put new copper wires in it. The contacts are gold and so they don't lose conductivity.
Very few places in the US use solid-state vital technology. One of them happens to be in the NY City subway: the Bergen Street Interlocking on the F line, which was the first solid-state interlocking in the US. London did some solid-state interlockings on the Central Line in the 1990s.
1
I am surprised by the technology they seem to be "updating" to. Switch sendors every 500 feet? Why not streaming online gps technology. More accurate, faster. Ie instntanious. Easy to update. Each train talks to the other.
Honestly dont need engineers, ooops, maybe that is why?
Anyway seems like 1990 technology in 2017???
My 2 cents
Honestly dont need engineers, ooops, maybe that is why?
Anyway seems like 1990 technology in 2017???
My 2 cents
1
How does a train pick up a satellite signal while traveling underground? You also need absolute 100% reliability in the system. It always sounds easy when you're very far removed from the problem
2
GPS? Underground? (Hint: The S stands for "satellite.)
1
GPS doesn't work very well underground
2
The actual trains should have been updated over the years as the technology became progressively better. The use of lighter materials to reduce the amount of power needed as well as computers so that the trains can "talk" to each other and the main computer at the same time. Instead, the newer cars look almost exactly the same as the older ones. If I can read the NYT with wifi on my cell phone, the subway car I'm riding in should contain far more advanced computing power than a handheld device.
6
As someone who regularly shuttles between NYC and London, I am glad both systems are thriving in their own ways, but face enormous challenges in the short run. I am happy for NY that ridership is way up and the MTA is viable passenger wise, compared to the hell days of the 1970's when riding the subway was dangerous to your life, and ridership was plummeting.
London too is viable and is constant expansion and has risen up to the challenge of overcrowding (think Piccadilly line at 8am). Nevertheless, comparing the two systems is like comparing apples and oranges. London charges fares by zones and it is more expensive than the flat fee charged in NY. London does not operate 24/7 unlike NY.
If NY wants to resolve the problem, they need to bite the bullet and adopt some of the strategies of their British cousins. But, alas, doing some of these things are politically unviable the theater of local and state politics..
London too is viable and is constant expansion and has risen up to the challenge of overcrowding (think Piccadilly line at 8am). Nevertheless, comparing the two systems is like comparing apples and oranges. London charges fares by zones and it is more expensive than the flat fee charged in NY. London does not operate 24/7 unlike NY.
If NY wants to resolve the problem, they need to bite the bullet and adopt some of the strategies of their British cousins. But, alas, doing some of these things are politically unviable the theater of local and state politics..
4
The main difference between London and New York is that gasoline is 4x as expensive there, and so everyone works in cities rather than more than half of people working in suburbs. The Underground is a first class system, i.e. only for people who can pay a very high fare. Everyone else takes the bus. The reason for this is that the Tube doesn't have the capacity to meet latent demand. So, lots of important people ride it, and they have high expectations. In New York, people who have money take taxis to work. Consequently the subway is seen politically as less important in NY. On the other hand, London has a difficult time doing the signalling upgrades - they've virtually bankrupted themselves trying to manage the projects. Every consortium which was delivering those projects went bankrupt (look up London Underground PPP and you'll see...)
3
This would be so abusive to the poor and already marginalized in our city. There are people who can't afford monthly cards and end up spending more annually than the corporate types who get to pay with pre tax dollars. It would be so punitive to do that when the city only invests in neighborhoods already gentrified.
We put up with a lot to live in NYC, but everyone has a limit. NYC can't really boast about its mass transit when we're constantly subjected to mysterious delays and overall decay. Fares have more than doubled in the two decades I've lived here, and I could care less about having USB ports on trains and buses (installing an already-outdated technology is an apt metaphor: too little, too late).
3
I feel your pain New Yorkers! The MBTA here in Boston is the same mess. Even with fare hikes, there is zero improvement, all that extra money goes to overpaid employees, just like it seems with the MTA. I gave up on the T after the winter of 2015. Although the snow that year was out of the ordinary, it showed how unprepared they all were. I think the MTA should stop worrying about making customers mad, they are already mad! Shut lines down and get something done!! We constantly have some much to learn from Europe and Asia in terms of public transport, so sick of people in charge not paying attention or caring!!
6
I was on the Wash DC metro this weekend and its neglect and shortcomings are obvious. The system is attempting to correct what it can under modern reality constraints. Line maintenance shutdowns and inconvenience are, unfortunately, the new realities. Line segments and stations remain closed for weeks. Lost productivity and populace relocation are direct impacts and will only get worse. The NYC system would be wise to start the suffering.
1
Great article, informative and timely. Unfortunately by tomorrow it will be yesterday's news. Failing infrastructure is the bane of America from highways, airports and sea ports to bridges, tunnels, and yes, subway systems. All are part of our unseen decline as a country and as a world power. We seem to be more interested in partisan politics and name calling, demonstrating, marching with catchy slogans on place cards, what bathrooms we are aloud to use, and safe spaces for snowflakes than tackling the issues that will position America for the future.
The American electorate had better start to wake up and choose leaders that will prioritize what is important for America as a country. Right now politicians operate under the banner ME FIRST- PARTY SECOND- COUNTRY THIRD.
Tune in tomorrow and see how much coverage is given to infrastructure.
The American electorate had better start to wake up and choose leaders that will prioritize what is important for America as a country. Right now politicians operate under the banner ME FIRST- PARTY SECOND- COUNTRY THIRD.
Tune in tomorrow and see how much coverage is given to infrastructure.
52
Are you seriously implying protesting and improving our country's failing infrastructure are mutually exclusive?
1
As I rider of both both the NYC subway and the Long Island Rail Road, I can assure you that a new "modernized" signal system for the subway system is a horrible idea.
I know this because the L.I.R.R. installed a new, and very, very expensive, computerized signal system a few years ago, and it is a total disaster.
It does not, as advertised, allow clever workarounds for track, switch and power failures. What is does do, is take a very long time to get back up when the system fails in any way. In short, it was a gift to the contractors.
The old signal systems put a "human in loop" when a problem occured. The new "computerized" systems have no idea what to do when a problem occurs - everything must be restored to the original state to get the trains back into service - and then, the entire computer system has to be put through a lengthy series of tests. Sometimes this takes hours.
You are not implementing "artificial intelligence" when you install one of these new signal systems, you are implementing "artificial spending".
More to the point, the subway system runs at exactly the same speeds it did when first built in 1904 - the current signal system is perfectly OK for the antiquated tracks, trains and switches.
What needs to be done, is to rethink, and rebuild, the entire NYC mass transit system - subways, commuter trains, and buses. Providing arbitrary gifts to politically connected contractors at the expense of riders and taxpayers is not a solution.
I know this because the L.I.R.R. installed a new, and very, very expensive, computerized signal system a few years ago, and it is a total disaster.
It does not, as advertised, allow clever workarounds for track, switch and power failures. What is does do, is take a very long time to get back up when the system fails in any way. In short, it was a gift to the contractors.
The old signal systems put a "human in loop" when a problem occured. The new "computerized" systems have no idea what to do when a problem occurs - everything must be restored to the original state to get the trains back into service - and then, the entire computer system has to be put through a lengthy series of tests. Sometimes this takes hours.
You are not implementing "artificial intelligence" when you install one of these new signal systems, you are implementing "artificial spending".
More to the point, the subway system runs at exactly the same speeds it did when first built in 1904 - the current signal system is perfectly OK for the antiquated tracks, trains and switches.
What needs to be done, is to rethink, and rebuild, the entire NYC mass transit system - subways, commuter trains, and buses. Providing arbitrary gifts to politically connected contractors at the expense of riders and taxpayers is not a solution.
3
I have traveled on subways all over Europe. The overwhelming majority of trains there are head and shoulders above the dinosaur we have in New York City. Too few trains run. Wagons are jam packed almost all morning and late afternoon. Like sardines. People run to get a vacant seat. Too many delays. Many announcements are not understandable.
And rat-infested, of course.
And rat-infested, of course.
2
It all starts from the top. Given the amount of work involved, little can be accomplished if we have a governor who doesn't care about this issue and is not motivated to fix it with upmost urgency. IF we don't elect a NEW GOVERNOR, lots of people will not make it to see things changed within their lifetime. Cuomo needs to go!!
MTA and all transportation administration and planning need to be separated from Albany into a regional body, independent of New York, New Jersey and CT state oversight. A regional authority with boundaries comprising the metropolitan statistical area that plans, executes, coordinates and maintains all transp. systems is a more rational structure. Also, every position needs to be "professionalized" (read: no political appointees). An independent audit commission should make annual reports available online to the public, revealing all revenues, payments and future obligations. This entire metro region represents 20%+ of national GDP. It needs a central authority with citizen oversight, transparency and taxing power, with no revenue sharing to states or cities, unless they are investing in complementary transit and building projects (TOD-or transit oriented development).
1
No stats available on how much time would be saved by going digital or how many more riders would be accommodated. Would it really be worth the time/expense/risk? Digital system would make the system vulnerable to system attack, hacking, etc. Keep it analog and just upgrade the analog equipment with more modern mechanisms and parts made from improved materials, then even a magnetic burst of radiation won't stop you.
2
New signaling is never installed with capacity as an objective. It's installed with the objective of reducing maintenance cost. Capacity is an afterthought because it's possible to get decent capacity from older technologies. Capacity is not New York's problem with subways. They choose not to run more frequently because they don't have the money. If they did run more frequently, they wouldn't know how to design the timetables accordingly, because that's not as trivial, but that's another matter.
1
At some point the people in control of planning these projects will identify the obvious solution to mitigate the inconveniences of closing down an entire subway line...real express bus routes and bus lanes.
There should street closings during certain hours to alleviate the need for buses to stop at every cross section, etc. bus lanes across east river crossings and a massive increase in bus service to offset the subway ridership on these routes.
It is time to inconvenience cars to accommodate the citizens of this city who rely on public transportation.
There should street closings during certain hours to alleviate the need for buses to stop at every cross section, etc. bus lanes across east river crossings and a massive increase in bus service to offset the subway ridership on these routes.
It is time to inconvenience cars to accommodate the citizens of this city who rely on public transportation.
2
I'd like the entire NYC MTA ridership to strike for a day to show how unhappy we are with fares and service. I'm lucky to live walking distance from work, but Harlem may as well be Philadelphia when riding from Brooklyn to visit family and friends on weekends. The MTA still cries a river every year asking for more money from riders when service and facilities are worse than they've ever been.
3
I want to agree with this, but I have to agree with the comments about where the money goes, and how it's spent. The MTA only hit its deadline of opening that first (relatively) small phase of the 2nd Ave. subway after being harassed in public about potentially not meeting it. There were reports of workers getting drunk during the day in bars near the construction. Then after so much overtime and working around the clock it all happens. But did the overtime send everything over budget? Its middle-ground of being a public and private company keeps all the accounting in way too murky territory for it be just be handed whatever billions of taxpayer dollars it's asking for. I say, if anything, give it in tranches. And have it meet certain requirements before the next one is given out. Increased ridership and fare hikes should be giving it more revenue. Where's it all going?
4
Words in this article to describe the trains and signaling equipment like "antiquated" or to describe the re-development process "glacial" are really telling. I am going to assume it's not just the NYC subway that can be assessed with these choice words. This country is crumbling. It makes the talk of building a new border wall preposterous.
In Germany I heard people saying that the US is the richest among the underdeveloped countries, especially its public transport system. Whenever I return to NY from Europe with its much more efficient public transport, and not only in London, see the rickety, overcrowded and mostly late trains and find myself again on one of the filthy, stinking platforms, I am reminded of this, saying to myself how true this statement is, sadly.
3
"Due to signal problems at Union Square, all Brooklyn-bound trains are running with delays from 241st Street to Coney Island. We apologize for any inconvenience."
Subway cars should have five doors to facilitate entering and leaving. The cost of this change is minimal to the increased passenger capacity, i.e.,more doors result in increased capacity and faster loading and unloading time during rush hours. The system should also reduce express stops (gradually convert suer express), eliminate local stops with 1.2mile of each other, and more closely integrate bus and subway transportation.
Another idea along the lines of increasing the number of doors is to decrease the number of seats. That way you can fit more people into a car.
A more complex idea is to create a system by which people on the platforms can align themselves ahead of time with where the emptier cars will stop. It's very common for a train to pull into the station with half of the cars packed like sardines and the other half relatively empty. Put signals on the platform that communicate with load sensors on the cars and tell people where to stand so that when the train pulls in people will be standing in front of the emptier cars.
People on the platform will be able to board more quickly, people in the crowded cars will be able to exit more quickly, and the overall experience will be more enjoyable.
A more complex idea is to create a system by which people on the platforms can align themselves ahead of time with where the emptier cars will stop. It's very common for a train to pull into the station with half of the cars packed like sardines and the other half relatively empty. Put signals on the platform that communicate with load sensors on the cars and tell people where to stand so that when the train pulls in people will be standing in front of the emptier cars.
People on the platform will be able to board more quickly, people in the crowded cars will be able to exit more quickly, and the overall experience will be more enjoyable.
1
retrofit the cars? have subway only stop every 25 blocks? get rid of express stops? wha? thanks but no thanks!
Upgrading the signals (with equipment installed every 500 ft. as per the article) is no doubt a big undertaking. But the labor, cost and coordination of this undertaking should only be incremental compared to the frequent track work that is done on many of the lines. That work requires the coordination of many workers and (literally) tons of material. As track workers are deployed to do their work (usually during off-hours and weekends), why can't the MTA deploy some additional electricians to mount and connect the signals required to modernize the system?
The system is broken - up and down. It's amazing that it still operates every day.
That alone tells me that it can be much, much better. Just look around at the stations, tracks and other infrastructure. I was amazed to see at substantial completion of the Smith/9th Street and 4th Avenue "F" line stations and viaduct rehab, a few years ago, that while major improvements were implemented, no one removed the piles of accumulated bird droppings that were lodged on the viaduct's steel trusses and other structural members. This of course causes significant corrosion of steel and concrete. The guano piles are still there today. These are just the piles that can be readily seen from the subway car. Imagine all the piles that cannot.
There is absolutely no accountability. People need to be fired - period.
That alone tells me that it can be much, much better. Just look around at the stations, tracks and other infrastructure. I was amazed to see at substantial completion of the Smith/9th Street and 4th Avenue "F" line stations and viaduct rehab, a few years ago, that while major improvements were implemented, no one removed the piles of accumulated bird droppings that were lodged on the viaduct's steel trusses and other structural members. This of course causes significant corrosion of steel and concrete. The guano piles are still there today. These are just the piles that can be readily seen from the subway car. Imagine all the piles that cannot.
There is absolutely no accountability. People need to be fired - period.
2
For anyone who's traveled on any other subway system in any part of the world, we should be ashamed of the NY subway system. The subway staff seems to represent the condition of the system also. Shameful
3
This along with the equally straining situation with the aged Penn Station are just two examples (of countless many) of 37 years of 'Starve the Beast." Yep - it's more important to pour two trillion (and more) dollars into an "off the books" illegal Iraq invasion and war and nearly half a trillion bucks to the dead-end F-450 bomber.
4
The MTA is a very inefficient organism. Cuomo needs to be held accountable for this mess. All executives and leadership of the MTA should be either fired or their fat salaries cut in half. Why should we keep paying higher fares that go to the pockets of these oligarcas.
After a new leadership is installed a new culture needs to be quickly stablished. Most MTA employees don't really understand that they providing a service. We are paying their salaries and we should be able to get good customer service. They are not trained to provide a good level of service and/or are completely ignorant of what that looks like.
The MTA needs to hire consultants and technicians from London and Japan.
Some of these MTA executives should take a trip to Tokyo to see how their system runs, they will immediately be ashamed of themselves. The Japanese know good service and teach their employees accordingly, if there is ever a problem in their system it's quickly resolved! There is no excuses and waste of time. This is because their culture is geared to the common good unlike here which is the opposite. The MTA should aim to create this same culture of service in their employees and their company in general. A Japanese executive will never accept a salary increase if their system was crumbling like ours. This is because they sincerely care about doing a good job and sincerely care about their customers and let them know that. Most importantly they have honor and integrity in all their actions.
After a new leadership is installed a new culture needs to be quickly stablished. Most MTA employees don't really understand that they providing a service. We are paying their salaries and we should be able to get good customer service. They are not trained to provide a good level of service and/or are completely ignorant of what that looks like.
The MTA needs to hire consultants and technicians from London and Japan.
Some of these MTA executives should take a trip to Tokyo to see how their system runs, they will immediately be ashamed of themselves. The Japanese know good service and teach their employees accordingly, if there is ever a problem in their system it's quickly resolved! There is no excuses and waste of time. This is because their culture is geared to the common good unlike here which is the opposite. The MTA should aim to create this same culture of service in their employees and their company in general. A Japanese executive will never accept a salary increase if their system was crumbling like ours. This is because they sincerely care about doing a good job and sincerely care about their customers and let them know that. Most importantly they have honor and integrity in all their actions.
1
The MTA did hire an executive from London, Jay Walder. Walder left because the Unions were so much more powerful in NY than in London, and there was very little he could do to implement the changes he wanted to make. His staff were unhappy and no one wanted to work there.
We hear that the "management should have their salary cut" all the time by armchair "experts". But the reality is that to get good managers, you need to pay them well. It's not like running a grocery store. The other unfortunate fact is that the congressional Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964 turned unionized public transit employees into the most powerful of the four classes of employees in the United States, by an order of magnitude. 99.9999% of the population is covered only by the Department of Labor, but transit workers are somehow special. The management has zero right to determine the employee's compensation package. The real problem is that the pensions and health care costs of the employees and retirees and retirees families has already bankrupted almost every transit authority in the US. They are all walking zombies. The NYC Transit stopped paying future operating debt obligations a long time ago. There's a ticking time bomb there and no going back.
We hear that the "management should have their salary cut" all the time by armchair "experts". But the reality is that to get good managers, you need to pay them well. It's not like running a grocery store. The other unfortunate fact is that the congressional Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964 turned unionized public transit employees into the most powerful of the four classes of employees in the United States, by an order of magnitude. 99.9999% of the population is covered only by the Department of Labor, but transit workers are somehow special. The management has zero right to determine the employee's compensation package. The real problem is that the pensions and health care costs of the employees and retirees and retirees families has already bankrupted almost every transit authority in the US. They are all walking zombies. The NYC Transit stopped paying future operating debt obligations a long time ago. There's a ticking time bomb there and no going back.
3
There are so many informative comments from readers with a technical appreciation for the subway system and MTA labor issues.
I'd like to learn more about the intersection of unions/labor and the high cost of service and maintenance.
I understand from other articles that the MTA spends multiples of what other transit systems spend to construct subways of equivalent distance and complexity. The question is, why? Because we won't be able to afford to keep up with London and Shanghai if our mass transit improvement costs are 2X-5X of what they pay.
http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2015/03/where-th...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/1-billion-doesnt-buy-much...
I'd like to learn more about the intersection of unions/labor and the high cost of service and maintenance.
I understand from other articles that the MTA spends multiples of what other transit systems spend to construct subways of equivalent distance and complexity. The question is, why? Because we won't be able to afford to keep up with London and Shanghai if our mass transit improvement costs are 2X-5X of what they pay.
http://www.politico.com/states/new-york/city-hall/story/2015/03/where-th...
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2011/11/1-billion-doesnt-buy-much...
3
"I'd like to learn more about the intersection of unions/labor and the high cost of service and maintenance."
Essentially the management has no right to set compensation packages for unionized employees. When health care costs went up, transit authorities (and in turn, riders and taxpayers both) were stuck with this. The only options are to raise fares or cut service. When you cut service, the demand drops... Vicious cycle. And no talented managers want to work in that environment.
Essentially the management has no right to set compensation packages for unionized employees. When health care costs went up, transit authorities (and in turn, riders and taxpayers both) were stuck with this. The only options are to raise fares or cut service. When you cut service, the demand drops... Vicious cycle. And no talented managers want to work in that environment.
1
Wait a second! I thought Walt Disney resolved this problem decades ago with the People Mover.
1
At this point I don't even care if they close down parts of the subway during the weekend, the summer or at certain times during the night, just let us know so we can take an Uber. bus or bike. At the rate they're going by the time the fix one problem 2 more arise. November 6, 2018. Mark the date folks if there's a half decent candidate out there we can make a statement and send Cumo on his way.
Trump will make America great again. I saw it on a red ball cap.
3
Between this and the grossly outdated steam system underneath NYC, I don't see how we stay competitive in the 21st century. This infrastructural disaster cum crisis in the wings is a frightening harbinger of things to come across the nation. Remind me why we pay such outrageous costs to live here again.
44
"Key to Improving Subway Service in New York? Modern Signals".
The infrastructure is outdated, overcrowding exists, executives are continuing to receive higher salaries relative to the blue collar workers,and so on and so forth. How about more new trains, more money for infrastructure, more modern-looking stations, and friendlier ticket-takers willing to smile once in a while? The photos in this feature article appear to look like something out of the 1930's.
Where's the Trumpster when you need him?
The infrastructure is outdated, overcrowding exists, executives are continuing to receive higher salaries relative to the blue collar workers,and so on and so forth. How about more new trains, more money for infrastructure, more modern-looking stations, and friendlier ticket-takers willing to smile once in a while? The photos in this feature article appear to look like something out of the 1930's.
Where's the Trumpster when you need him?
8
Nothing new here. We have similar problems in Montreal with our Metro subway system. Rates for riders go up each year, as the executives pay rises even higher. New train cars for the Metro didn't fit well, and needed to be repaired. Accommodation for the handicapped is poor, with elevators projected to be built by 2020 in some stations for the handicapped. Breakdowns occur intermittently with repairs taking hours, as riders are hard-pressed to use busses. And best of all, extensions to our Metro are to be built towards the French part of town, as the English sector of Montreal languishes, with NO extensions proposed.
5
You had a great system there.
This situation is the poster child for everything that is wrong with infrastructure in this country. It cannot seriously be the case that it will take longer to change the signals in the lines than it took to build the lines in the first place. If we fought World War II this way (on the home front), we'd all be speaking German . . . . Hire all the contractors from the London subway work to do the work and get it done. Signaling is the cheapest way to increase the capacity of the subway and it does not require boring new tunnels and tearing up the streets.
100
When the lines were being built, the workers didn't have to stop everything every few minutes to let a train go past because the trains weren't there yet.
We can replace the signals in less time than it took to build the subways if we're willing to shut the subways down completely while the work is being done. Are you willing to do without the subways for the entire time it takes to get the new signals installed?
We can replace the signals in less time than it took to build the subways if we're willing to shut the subways down completely while the work is being done. Are you willing to do without the subways for the entire time it takes to get the new signals installed?
2
I was recently in Tokyo and other cities in Japan and compared to what I saw and used, describing Americas public transit and infrastructure as being "third world" is generous in its description and with the governments in power in Washington it can only get worse.
Every mass transit system in the US is in a similar situation, only on a smaller scale -- Washington, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago. So what's the problem and what's the solution? The problem is that neoliberalism has been the dominant political ideology since at least 1980 and it places no value on social investments and the non-private sectors. The solution is a political ideology that values society, is willing to invest in social enterprises and is comfortable with a large non-private sector.
3
I guess you're not aware that both Bill Clinton and Obama proposed really large-scale upgrades and investments to Amtrak, which were shot down, and Trump's proposed severe budget cuts and left any upgrades to local areas?
Look, I get that you want to blame liberals for everything and I get that Amtrak has issues, but the fact is that we simply MUST invest in infrastructure in this country, and historically, Republicans have been the ones preventing this. The fact that you (and people like you) refuse to acknowledge reality in pursuit of politics will not help us as a nation.
Look, I get that you want to blame liberals for everything and I get that Amtrak has issues, but the fact is that we simply MUST invest in infrastructure in this country, and historically, Republicans have been the ones preventing this. The fact that you (and people like you) refuse to acknowledge reality in pursuit of politics will not help us as a nation.
5
The GOP has, indeed, opposed most federal spending except for the military. That does not mean, however, that Obama or Clinton proposed or supported significant investments in social enterprises like mass transit. They did not. They, in fact,were more willing to cut Federal spending than either Bush Sr. or Bush Jr.
The larger point is that the way forward for the US is something other than neoliberalism, a program that values those things that we all share and that benefit all of society. I don't think the Democrats are ready to sign up to any such program.
The larger point is that the way forward for the US is something other than neoliberalism, a program that values those things that we all share and that benefit all of society. I don't think the Democrats are ready to sign up to any such program.
Really? It's the R that refuse to spend any money except new bombs! Remember Gerald Fords comment to NYC during the crisis"DROP DEAD"
"Highlights From the Opening of the Second Avenue Subway"
The NY Times 1, 1, 2017
......It was only a matter of minutes before passengers began to complain on social media about the new Second Avenue line.
Emily Ngo, a politics reporter for Newsday, wrote on Twitter that her Q train was delayed at the 63rd Street station, the last stop before the new extension starts, because of signal trouble. She said riders were amused by the delay.
I'm on the 2nd Ave subway. It's stopped at Lex-63 station. Conductor says train is "experiencing some signal problems." Riders laugh ...
— Emily Ngo (@epngo) Jan. 1, 2017
A $ 4.4 Billion extension, adding 3 stops, nearly a century in the making, - and the signal system on the 2nd Ave line was not upgraded with it ???
The NY Times 1, 1, 2017
......It was only a matter of minutes before passengers began to complain on social media about the new Second Avenue line.
Emily Ngo, a politics reporter for Newsday, wrote on Twitter that her Q train was delayed at the 63rd Street station, the last stop before the new extension starts, because of signal trouble. She said riders were amused by the delay.
I'm on the 2nd Ave subway. It's stopped at Lex-63 station. Conductor says train is "experiencing some signal problems." Riders laugh ...
— Emily Ngo (@epngo) Jan. 1, 2017
A $ 4.4 Billion extension, adding 3 stops, nearly a century in the making, - and the signal system on the 2nd Ave line was not upgraded with it ???
21
Gerhard, I would guess that the signals installed on the Second Avenue extension had to be compatible with the ones on the rest of the Q Line, and there was neither time nor funding to install the transponders, radios, zone controllers, on-train computers and speed sensors along the entire Q line to Coney Island.
"and the signal system on the 2nd Ave line was not upgraded with it ???"
Hm, the 2nd avenue line was just built, thus those signals are NEW. The problem isn't that the signals weren't upgraded, the problem is that the project was managed by corrupt people elected by a corrupt populace, and actually doing the job right is considered a grave offense by such people.
Hm, the 2nd avenue line was just built, thus those signals are NEW. The problem isn't that the signals weren't upgraded, the problem is that the project was managed by corrupt people elected by a corrupt populace, and actually doing the job right is considered a grave offense by such people.
work on one half of a line at a time. Take the 1 train. Shut down the Uptown track for work, and run trains Downtown during the morning, and Uptown after 3pm on the one working track. ABCD trains and buses take up excess capacity.
5
And where exactly do you propose to store all those morning trains after they reach the S end of the 1 line?
1
Oh my. When it comes to their subways, dear NYT readers have had enough. We hear complaints about public sector unions, waste, and poor service. Yet when the same dynamic creates similar problems with inner city school systems, no problem. Visit an inner city school (as if you could), they are the MTA of education.
3
You're so right. One simply cannot be concerned about subways AND inner-cities. Thank you for pointing this out.
3
The MTA could turn the most leftie progressive into a free market conservative.
21
Why? Free-market conservatives would probably say that the entire transit system should be abandoned if it can't pay for itself via fares.
1
The MTA is a joke. We saw that pretty clearly during Bridgegate. Anyone remember the LIRR disability pension scandal? Apparently no one cares about the dysfunctional (corrupt and incompetent) management. I really hate this city more and more each day.
7
$32 BILLION!! 10 Years!! Ridiculous. whatever they build will be obsolete before they finish building it. How about this; Put Internet antennas every 500 ft in the tunnels then put a transponder on each car ala EZ-Pass and there you have it. You will know where every car in the system is. You could also get the telecom companies to put the antennas in for FREE.
Google et. al. can create a car that drives itself in traffic and crowds for a couple of billion, but the MTA can install a system of basically Stop Lights for 10 times that amount on a system where the cars don't have to steer! Pitiful!
Google et. al. can create a car that drives itself in traffic and crowds for a couple of billion, but the MTA can install a system of basically Stop Lights for 10 times that amount on a system where the cars don't have to steer! Pitiful!
8
All of the comments in the world will not change a thing here. This is just a venting page. Nothing will change, nothing. It will only get worse. Get used to it.
4
You have an editorial now called the "Cost of Obama's Speech." The real cost of Obama was his 8 years in office, a $17 trillion budget deficit, and the audacity to say sorry folks, but there's no such thing as a shovel ready job.
Why not investigate where all that money went?
Why not investigate where all that money went?
4
You can blame Bush Jr.'s tax cuts, unfunded wars, out of control defense spending and greedy private health care and insurance companies for all that. We are still paying for Wall St. misbehavior in 2007-8, that put millions out of work, foreclosed homes and lower wage jobs, forcing those millions onto food stamps, housing vouchers and 'disability'. The Wall St. fatcats had their bonuses paid by taxpayers along with the bailouts.
4
Yes this is all Obama's fault. I see it clearly now thanks to your brilliant comment.
5
In reply to Lonely Republican NYC
I like your nom de plume.
I like your nom de plume.
When the inefficiencies of city government became too much for
Donald Trump to bear during the reconstruction of the ice rink in a central park he offered to do the job for the city. The city had no experience in the construction of an ice rink. Trump hired a Canadian firm to complete the job efficiently. It seems this is another instance where the private sector could be more efficient thus reducing the burden on the public. President Trump is too busy at this point of his career. Maybe Bloomberg could step up and get the private sector involved.
Donald Trump to bear during the reconstruction of the ice rink in a central park he offered to do the job for the city. The city had no experience in the construction of an ice rink. Trump hired a Canadian firm to complete the job efficiently. It seems this is another instance where the private sector could be more efficient thus reducing the burden on the public. President Trump is too busy at this point of his career. Maybe Bloomberg could step up and get the private sector involved.
3
Why are we on the cusp of self driving cars while our MTA trains still require a human to operate them? Why does a train with four cars require two conductors to check tickets? Why do all the MTA construction projects my train passes have so many workers just standing around while some work?
The MTA is an arcane system from lack of technology to outdated union rules.
The MTA is an arcane system from lack of technology to outdated union rules.
7
There was an old term that applies here, it's called "featherbedding", as when back in the day railroad unions insisted that diesel locomotives still needed a fireman who used to shovel coal.
The MTA spends nearly $3bln annually on pension/health care. Its pension is still underfunded by close to $10bln. These costs are only going up, meaning riders and taxpayers will continue to pay more for their rides for less service as the money is siphoned off to the pensions.
Restructure the pensions, cut the benefits and invest in the infrastructure.
The MTA is in business to serve its ridership, not as a piggy bank to public service employees.
Restructure the pensions, cut the benefits and invest in the infrastructure.
The MTA is in business to serve its ridership, not as a piggy bank to public service employees.
20
Also seek more automation to reduce the number of staff needed.
4
You are absolutely correct, but to accomplish this ("restructure the pensions, cut the benefits...", NYC Transit needs to enter bankruptcy first.
Yet, the MTA raises prices and continues to give us bad service and a dirty subway system.
4
Why don't they hire Guillani to fix it. He can do anything, right? I mean, he cleaned up 8th Ave and Times Square.
3
No thanks! remember he thought 9/11 occurred on Obama's watch?
There's always a corruption / incompetence component when discussing New York City Transit. The system's making more money now then it ever has. It has a ridership that's greater then any in the last 75 years. It a bus and ferry system that should be utilized more efficiently to ease the flow of ridership to modernize this track / signal work on their subway lines. But invariably the governor and transit officials will conclude that the answer is more money. Whenever these elected bozos are faced with a challenge they can't solve, ( which are far too many), the answer is always more money. And when they get the funding they put in into a trophy project like the second avenue subway line.
4
Deteriorating Infrastructure aside in the days of WI-FI, digital information screens and Twitter there is no excuse for the MTA's lack of communicating subway information to its ridership. How many times as a New Yorker have you been standing on the Subway platform waiting for a delayed train with no announcements or digital updates and no idea if the wait will be 5 more minutes or another hour.
15
Not to mention sound systems that are so loud they could damage your ear drums; announcements that are unintelligible; noise of subway cars so deafening they cause hearing loss.
NYC needs control of the MTA-this political patronage agency was outed during the Christie bridge gate scandal & continues to operate in the shadows. Time for some disinfectant and money spent where it is needed, now before its too late!
NYC needs control of the MTA-this political patronage agency was outed during the Christie bridge gate scandal & continues to operate in the shadows. Time for some disinfectant and money spent where it is needed, now before its too late!
2
This was a very eye-opening, informative piece; thank you for providing insights to a system that we know so little of yet heavily rely on for daily commutes.
1
Did anyone ever think of improving the surface transit system in New York in order to help alleviate the problem in the subways. Look at the ridership on buses and you will notice how many of them are running half empty even during rush hour. Over the last few years New York Transit has invested millions in the new sleek double size buses. What good are they if they don't serve the public's needs? Riders complain that the wait for buses is maddening even when compared to the wait for trains. And now with Select buses riders are required to purchase their tickets and special kiosks and cannot board a bus without a special ticket. Select buses are meant to speed up the movement of buses as money and metrocards cannot be used on them. (payment is made in advance of boarding). In theory this system should work but it is not popular among riders. We need an efficient bus system to complement the subways. If more people are able to find an alternate route using a bus there would be fewer people dependent on trains.
3
There is really no alternative to riding the subway in NYC. That is why everyone rides it, from the working poor of the outer boroughs to the Wall Street billionaires. That's also why the city can get away with not improving it, because they know we have no choice but to pay $2.75 per ride, regardless of delays and closures. Given the price we pay to live in this city (those taxes! that real estate!), it is astonishing that so little has been done to improve a transit system this outdated, costly, and dirty.
I've spent time in cities like Moscow and Bangkok that have less wealthy economies but far superior public transit. Those places acknowledge that this is a public amenity. When will our country shift its focus away from lining the pockets of plutocrats and devote funds and labor to improving ordinary people's lives?
I've spent time in cities like Moscow and Bangkok that have less wealthy economies but far superior public transit. Those places acknowledge that this is a public amenity. When will our country shift its focus away from lining the pockets of plutocrats and devote funds and labor to improving ordinary people's lives?
129
Never
1
Maybe Putin can convince Trump...nah.
Forget London. Too many foreign parts
Federal Transit Administration to Metropolitan Transportation Authority
"Dear Mr. Prendergast:
I write to follow up on my letter of July 25, 2014, regarding the Federal Transit Administration's Buy America investigation into the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority's (MTA) water mist fire suppression systems needed for the Second Avenue Subway Project. This letter serves as FTA's Decision in the matter, and for the reasons set forth below, I find that a water mist fire suppression system is a "manufactured end product" for purposes of FTA's Buy America regulation at 49 C.F.R. part 661. Consequently, Marioff Corporation's HI-FOG® water mist fire suppression system, which consists of components manufactured in Finland, does not comply with FTA's Buy America requirements, and given FTA's financial participation in the Second A venue Subway Project, MTA must acquire water mist fire suppression systems that consist of components manufactured in the United States."
https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-and-guidance/buy-america/second-...
Federal Transit Administration to Metropolitan Transportation Authority
"Dear Mr. Prendergast:
I write to follow up on my letter of July 25, 2014, regarding the Federal Transit Administration's Buy America investigation into the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority's (MTA) water mist fire suppression systems needed for the Second Avenue Subway Project. This letter serves as FTA's Decision in the matter, and for the reasons set forth below, I find that a water mist fire suppression system is a "manufactured end product" for purposes of FTA's Buy America regulation at 49 C.F.R. part 661. Consequently, Marioff Corporation's HI-FOG® water mist fire suppression system, which consists of components manufactured in Finland, does not comply with FTA's Buy America requirements, and given FTA's financial participation in the Second A venue Subway Project, MTA must acquire water mist fire suppression systems that consist of components manufactured in the United States."
https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-and-guidance/buy-america/second-...
11
Thank you Woof! This is a great comment.
Instead of building a silly wall, INFRASTRUCTURE is what is needed throughout this country. This should be a no brainer. This is where the federal dollars are needed NOW. Don't even get me started on the safety aspect when updating, improving and maintaining infrastructure is ignored.
159
This article is misleading.
Signal failures are proportional to the amount of preventive maintenance. Maintenance is down because of high labor costs, which are high because the unions have taken advantage of the fact that transit workers are the only class of employee in the United States with more labor rights than their management, due to Section 5333 of the Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964.
Service reliability itself is largely tied to schedule design. The NYCT system's service frequencies have all been cut back, due to high labor costs. When gaps open up in the service, people really feel it.
Older signaling technology can sometimes be of high capacity, and newer signaling technology can sometimes be of low capacity. It all depends on how it's done.
The real benefit of new signaling these days is that complete driverless operation is possible, especially if you time it with delivery of new vehicles. Yet NYCT did not do this on the L, which was a mistake. They can increase capacity with current signaling, but they don't have people in the right positions who know how to do this.
The reason all the things I am saying don't get much visibility is that NYCT does not have many talented people working there. This is because their pay structure is only satisfactory once you've worked there for decades. This means they cannot reward talent. No one with talent wants to work for someone who has been there for decades, who has never seen what's been done elsewhere.
Signal failures are proportional to the amount of preventive maintenance. Maintenance is down because of high labor costs, which are high because the unions have taken advantage of the fact that transit workers are the only class of employee in the United States with more labor rights than their management, due to Section 5333 of the Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964.
Service reliability itself is largely tied to schedule design. The NYCT system's service frequencies have all been cut back, due to high labor costs. When gaps open up in the service, people really feel it.
Older signaling technology can sometimes be of high capacity, and newer signaling technology can sometimes be of low capacity. It all depends on how it's done.
The real benefit of new signaling these days is that complete driverless operation is possible, especially if you time it with delivery of new vehicles. Yet NYCT did not do this on the L, which was a mistake. They can increase capacity with current signaling, but they don't have people in the right positions who know how to do this.
The reason all the things I am saying don't get much visibility is that NYCT does not have many talented people working there. This is because their pay structure is only satisfactory once you've worked there for decades. This means they cannot reward talent. No one with talent wants to work for someone who has been there for decades, who has never seen what's been done elsewhere.
4
"Signal failures are proportional to the amount of preventive maintenance. Maintenance is down because of high labor costs, which are high because the unions have taken advantage of the fact that transit workers are the only class of employee in the United States with more labor rights than their management, due to Section 5333 of the Urban Mass Transportation Act of 1964."
Imagine what American agricultural produce/services would cost if illegal immigrants were given ANY labor rights? Too much unnecessary money being paid to necessary people is a cultural NIGHTMARE for America. MAGA: #pre-1964?
Imagine what American agricultural produce/services would cost if illegal immigrants were given ANY labor rights? Too much unnecessary money being paid to necessary people is a cultural NIGHTMARE for America. MAGA: #pre-1964?
This is a great article, well written and informative. I think updating the signal system and improving cars, tunnels and stations should be part of President Trump's infrastructure spending bill. Shanghai is even larger than New York and has an excellent subway system, most of it built in the last 20 years. I think Governor Cuomo should approach President Trump and suggest that there be federal funding to modernize the New York subway system. Hopefully they are on good terms.
8
There will be no infrastructure spending bill. That was an empty campaign promise. Republicans do not spend on such things, which would benefit the common people.
1
Right, Lisa, because the Democrats have done so much better? They're both to blame!
2
In reply to Lisa CA
President Trump is becoming known for keeping his promises. He will not get everything he wants right away, but by perseverance he will achieve his goals. How else do you think he built a $3.7B real estate empire.
When President Trump gets his infrastructure bill passed, let's meet again on these columns, and from you I will expect a humble apology.
President Trump is becoming known for keeping his promises. He will not get everything he wants right away, but by perseverance he will achieve his goals. How else do you think he built a $3.7B real estate empire.
When President Trump gets his infrastructure bill passed, let's meet again on these columns, and from you I will expect a humble apology.
"Much of the signaling technology predates World War II and is decades beyond its life span"
Imagine if it was now disclosed to the public, as is being done here, that vintage electric systems as pictired were still used by our Air Traffic control operators.
There would result from Congress , an immediate "Pentagon" type unanimous effort to rebuild.
But Congress isn't interested here, its New York , its Northeast.......its local in their view. Funding is all by region these days. "Its us and them"
Imagine if it was now disclosed to the public, as is being done here, that vintage electric systems as pictired were still used by our Air Traffic control operators.
There would result from Congress , an immediate "Pentagon" type unanimous effort to rebuild.
But Congress isn't interested here, its New York , its Northeast.......its local in their view. Funding is all by region these days. "Its us and them"
6
The primary responsibility for the NYC subway system belongs to NYC and the State of New York, not the federal government.
1
That the FAA air traffic control system is out of date and needs replacement has been known for at least 25 years. It is truly not a secret and Congress has not leaped to the rescue.
That's what i meant with "its us against them" , We're no longer The "United" States where Congress for decades worked smoothly to unite Fed. investment for infrastructure programs.
After riding the MUNI Underground here in San Francisco (the precious little part of it that is indeed underground) and the NY City Subway, the NY City Subway in its current incarnation seems fast and efficient to me.
6
The real issue isn't money, or lack thereof. It is accountability. What, exactly, has happened to the billions dumped into the MTA? How much are administrators making, and what do the do? How many are there? And what about the workers - are those that don't do their job EVER fired? Nope.
I'm tired of the NYTimes crying for more money for all of their emotional outbursts about what is wrong in NYC, and this country. How about a little accountability for spending of tax dollars?!!
I'm tired of the NYTimes crying for more money for all of their emotional outbursts about what is wrong in NYC, and this country. How about a little accountability for spending of tax dollars?!!
9
The biggest problem of rail passenger service and subways is this: Its 19th century technology staffed by people fixed in 19th century thinking. And its not just the technology, its union work rules that also need to change.
8
One thing I'd like to figure out is exactly how the "aging signals" contribute to delays? I say this as a computer programmer and microelectronics hobbyist. One great thing about the current system is that it is robust and dead simple. There is a great deal, a VERY great deal, to be said for that when the system is going to be subjected to periodic salt water baths. We could install a fiber-optic or wireless network and gather telemetry data on every single piece of equipment but hardening it against flooding will be hard and if it gets wet, it's toast. With the current equipment you just have a very annoying job of cleaning contacts but then you're back in business. Also, since trains frequently stack up waiting to enter stations during rush hour it would appear that loading and unloading are the chokepoints so tighter bunching of trains won't help.
What the article does not state, and which the MTA would certainly be unwilling to talk about, is the potential for System shutdown due to multiple, simultaneous failure of the antiquated equipment.
It's a credit to the engineers who planed the pre-WWII technology that it has lasted this long, and is also a credit to the engineers and workers who maintain the present system. But the knowing criticism of rodents and just plain corrosion make system disaster a matter of time.
It's a credit to the engineers who planed the pre-WWII technology that it has lasted this long, and is also a credit to the engineers and workers who maintain the present system. But the knowing criticism of rodents and just plain corrosion make system disaster a matter of time.
I cannot understand how complicated this system must be in order to track trains. We have sensors on virtually everything else to track its whereabouts. My college town put sensors on all of the buses to track them real time. Snow plows in Chicago now also have real time data tracking. It took a matter of months to roll these trackers out, how is it that this NYC system takes decades and potentially $20 billion? It sounds overpriced and convoluted.
It seems like the biggest worry the MTA has when it comes to upgrading our archaic subway system is griping New Yorkers. Might I suggest that the city do a better job of communicating that these delays/closings are for New Yorkers' benefit, and will help everyone in the end?
3
First, this is a great article. Next, some ideas:
1) As many comments here say, too many MTA workers really don't work for their entire shift. I'm not saying take away the lunch or dinner break, but some of the work rules are absolutely insane and cost the system tens of millions of dollars in lost productivity.
2) Currently, CBTC is being installed over weekends on the 7 train. With a schedule like that, it is no wonder that the work will take decades to cover the whole system. Let's take the 4,5,6 line and shut down large portions (like from Brooklyn Bridge to the end of the 4 and 5 lines) overnight from about 9:30pm to 5:00am) and have a swarm of workers doing the work, every night for 7 hours or so until that section is done.
What would be the costs? What would be the time frame to complete the work? Yes, it would be inconvenient, but I have no doubt that it would be cheaper and take less time.
The cost of capital construction on our subway system is the biggest factor in getting things done. No other city in the world has costs that are so high, despite having all the same engineering issues we do. First, we need the political will to change how the MTA and its workers work. Second, we, as the users of the system, need to deal with the inconvenience of that work being done.
There is no other way.
1) As many comments here say, too many MTA workers really don't work for their entire shift. I'm not saying take away the lunch or dinner break, but some of the work rules are absolutely insane and cost the system tens of millions of dollars in lost productivity.
2) Currently, CBTC is being installed over weekends on the 7 train. With a schedule like that, it is no wonder that the work will take decades to cover the whole system. Let's take the 4,5,6 line and shut down large portions (like from Brooklyn Bridge to the end of the 4 and 5 lines) overnight from about 9:30pm to 5:00am) and have a swarm of workers doing the work, every night for 7 hours or so until that section is done.
What would be the costs? What would be the time frame to complete the work? Yes, it would be inconvenient, but I have no doubt that it would be cheaper and take less time.
The cost of capital construction on our subway system is the biggest factor in getting things done. No other city in the world has costs that are so high, despite having all the same engineering issues we do. First, we need the political will to change how the MTA and its workers work. Second, we, as the users of the system, need to deal with the inconvenience of that work being done.
There is no other way.
7
With significant fare increases on regular basis, it blows my mind that MTA has not modernized their signal systems long ago, and I have to suffer so much overcrowding, delays and low frequency of train arrivals (C train) on daily basis. Where have MTA spent the money? In efficiencies, bloated personels, and corruptions are what comes to mind.
3
Always hard up for money is the fall back cry for everything. Yet Mayor DeBlasio just announced he found $100million to extend grass on the east side greenway.
How come nobody can ever find money for the subways/railroads but can find it for grass and other nonessential amenities.
How come nobody can ever find money for the subways/railroads but can find it for grass and other nonessential amenities.
4
Just the existence of this article, especially its placement on the front page, makes me feel validated and less crazy. The subway has become so unmanageable that I avoid scheduling my patients at the start of the day because I can't guarantee that I will be there on time, no matter when I leave my apartment. It is a real tragedy that such a magnificent system is not receiving the maintenance it deserves, and just underscores the importance of prioritizing essential services like infrastructure and transit. We just want to get to work on time.
82
A couple of decades ago, '60 Minutes' reported about an aging bridge in Cleveland that had been painted over the years, but only where the voters could see the new paint. Underneath, the rust was so bad that the bridge might have to be condemned and closed. More often than not, politicians don't want to take responsibility for the infrastructure we can't see. That's the next guy's problem.
15
I agree, the article details what was once unknown, so when I'm on a platform in full on complain mode, I now understand why the service is so poor.
That being said, why weren't the signals being replaced piecemeal 30 years ago when they were at their limit? Why wait until the system is falling apart?
The old excuses don't hold muster, like the system's age, as London has shown.
So, in conclusion are we to surmise that 28 more years of misery are in store? Looks like yes. OY!
That being said, why weren't the signals being replaced piecemeal 30 years ago when they were at their limit? Why wait until the system is falling apart?
The old excuses don't hold muster, like the system's age, as London has shown.
So, in conclusion are we to surmise that 28 more years of misery are in store? Looks like yes. OY!
3
Important article, thank you. Please keep reporting on this critical issue which has lacked the attention it deserves. It effects the lives, health & safety of millions each day.
20
Good grief! I saw more modern technology at IEEE - in New York City, no less -
over 50 years ago.
over 50 years ago.
2
Well I did not vote for Trump but does the word infrastructure ring any bells?
7
The MTA doesn't have to look to London to find out how to implement a moving block train control system. At the San Francisco Municipal Railway in the 1990s, Alcatel's moving block system was overlaid on top of the old fixed block system while maintaining high-ridership operations. The cut-over to high frequency service was smooth. And it didn't cost billions of the dollars at the time to get the job done.
4
Number of trains per hour (TPH) used to be 30 or more in rush hour on all major lines as far back as the 70's. Three things not tied into antiquated signaling have conspired to reduce this number:
(1) changes in passenger riding patterns - there has been a flattening out between rush hours and midday/weekends - fewer passengers in rush hours and more in the other periods. Back in the sixties, large numbers of trains were routinely sidelined during midday and weekends because they weren't needed. This probably made overall maintenance easier as equipment wasn't on the road as constantly. Rush hours are just as crowded today but with fewer TPH needed, until now.
(2) Passenger behavior - the dwell time at stations has increased. Observe how long it takes from the first time a conductor tries to close the train's door until it actually leaves the station. Passengers know they can block doors with impunity and they will be reopened. This needs to change in order to speed things up and increase capacity.
(3) Operator behavior - a series of operator-caused accidents over the years resulted in the elimination of routine "keying-by" of red signals, allowing trains to (slowly) get closer to each other, generally near stations in rush hour. This, coupled with some maddening speed restrictions, further reduces capacity. Why, for example, must northbound trains slow to a crawl before entering 59th Street-Columbus Circle on the ABCD lines?
So lots more to be done.
(1) changes in passenger riding patterns - there has been a flattening out between rush hours and midday/weekends - fewer passengers in rush hours and more in the other periods. Back in the sixties, large numbers of trains were routinely sidelined during midday and weekends because they weren't needed. This probably made overall maintenance easier as equipment wasn't on the road as constantly. Rush hours are just as crowded today but with fewer TPH needed, until now.
(2) Passenger behavior - the dwell time at stations has increased. Observe how long it takes from the first time a conductor tries to close the train's door until it actually leaves the station. Passengers know they can block doors with impunity and they will be reopened. This needs to change in order to speed things up and increase capacity.
(3) Operator behavior - a series of operator-caused accidents over the years resulted in the elimination of routine "keying-by" of red signals, allowing trains to (slowly) get closer to each other, generally near stations in rush hour. This, coupled with some maddening speed restrictions, further reduces capacity. Why, for example, must northbound trains slow to a crawl before entering 59th Street-Columbus Circle on the ABCD lines?
So lots more to be done.
6
Re item 2 on your list -- what would you recommend? Sharpening the edges of the doors?
1
Not totally correct on (2) and (3). Train acceleration and top speed was capped during the timespan you mention, due to unsafe braking distances, which were highlighted by the Williamsburg Bridge accident. That is ultimately what caused capacity to drop the most. The obvious answer would have been to increase the emergency brake rate on the whole fleet.
1
I grew up during a time when passengers knew that if they blocked doors, they wouldn't be quickly reopened, so they didn't do it as much. I would follow that practice and let other passengers' impatience motivate the individual to release the doors. People would get used to it.
1
"At the current pace, transforming every subway line could take half a century and cost $20 billion."
20 billion just to upgrade the signal system. There is 660 miles of track. So that comes down to 30 million a mile, or 5700 buck a foot, 478 bucks an inch.
Surely we can do better then 478 an inch.
20 billion just to upgrade the signal system. There is 660 miles of track. So that comes down to 30 million a mile, or 5700 buck a foot, 478 bucks an inch.
Surely we can do better then 478 an inch.
5
We could do better , if we had design engineers in Cabinet positions instead of lawyers and Wall ST. investors.
1
England recognizes London's importance and therefore funds the city accordingly. That type of thinking in America, toward New York, would help a lot.
46
New York City is the city that America loves to hate. Apparently we're good for SOMETHING but they'll never admit it.
Washington D.C. had the most up to date subway system in the 1980s. I guess they rank.
1
New York State has a GDP of $1.103 trillion USD, if the city and state can't fund this improvement, I'm not sure why the rest of the country should pay for it.
Everything in NY that is controlled at the state level is subject to the inefficiencies and corruption that are endemic in this state. Big government breeds big problems.
7
If the MTA isn't open to a complete audit for wasting taxpayer funds, with criminal accountability, then no other business should ever be held accountable. How they can go through BILLIONS of dollars for so little to show is disgusting. Every New Yorker who pays taxes should be 'mad as hell' over the waste of their hard earned money. No wonder people do not like to pay taxes, they get so little in return for so much given. Who will be MTA's first indited criminal? It cannot happen soon enough.
4
I have been waiting for the NYT to do this story for 40 years. A modern signal system would permit trains to run much closer, and increase system capacity - without one inch of new track - by 33%.
A tax on Wall Street financial transactions would easily pay for this (and many other necessary infrastructure projects).
Meanwhile, Sandy repairs have cost billions and have not yet been completed. NYT: Investigate whether we can protect the subway tunnels today if we have another Sandy event tomorrow. My guess is that the answer is no.
Where is the leadership?
A tax on Wall Street financial transactions would easily pay for this (and many other necessary infrastructure projects).
Meanwhile, Sandy repairs have cost billions and have not yet been completed. NYT: Investigate whether we can protect the subway tunnels today if we have another Sandy event tomorrow. My guess is that the answer is no.
Where is the leadership?
57
NYCT wastes over half of its maintenance money already, and the above poster thinks the fix for that is to shovel more at it.
1
Why are we complaining? There's no point. Those in power are not listening. The rich and the powerful don't use the subways. They have their golden planes and limos to transport them from point A to point B. And they hold the purse-strings. The dingy room with with the archaic tools are at least there to bandaid the archaic subway system. We, the little people should be grateful we have a subway!! What are a few accidents with few of us dying and many more injured. Nobody gives a damn about delays, overcrowding and tunnels collapsing which the minions have to endure. We should be grateful to God for small mercies. Our tax money only is for trips to Mar-a-lago and the like. Once again we the 99% are held in bondage to the 1%. Archaic, crumbling Subway system? Suck it up. After all it is just a miniscule part of our crumbling infrastructure. Upgrades? Wishful thinking!
13
It is simply irresponsible to write an article about the failing NYC Subway and not mention the time and money the heads of the MTA and the unions have squandered away. There is a very long and documented record of this (and you even show it in the picture). How can you report on the state of the subway and talk about how little has been done by completely ignoring the labor issues and chronic waste of the MTA administration - just irresponsible journalism.
8
Maybe it's time for America to change its money logo from "In God We Trust" to "Get Something Done."
5
All I know is that when I used to have just a TV antenna on my house I always had reception. Since I've switched to cable and satellite, not a week goes by when it's not gone out for some length of time. Seeing something in HD really has little use when there's nothing on to begin with.
America is not into caretaking, maintenance and repairs. America is into waste.
Do we really need the subway to run all night? Closing the system for a few hours each night (midnight to 6:00?) would permit maintenance and cleaning and probably save some money. Add scheduled weekend closings for major projects (e.g., signals) and it might be possible to keep the system running well.
The key to doing any of this is plenty of advance notice.
The key to doing any of this is plenty of advance notice.
2
Having one person at each station power washing the platforms would do wonders for the acrid stench of urine and make the city far more presentable.
6
what are people who work the graveyard shift supposed to do? it's their tax dollars too!
we spend it on defense, the cost of the F22 program is 62 billion . don't you feel more secure ?
3
Greetings from Boston, where the MBTA is also struggling to modernize an antiquated system of signals, switches and rail.
The Green Line, which cuts through the heart of downtown Boston. has the highest ridership of any light rail in the country. It stretches from Cambridge, across the Charles River, and continues underground at North Station, home of the Boston Bruins and Celtics, until Kenmore Square, adjacent to Fenway Park. It then diverges to 4 separate lines that continue at street level, with the exception of 1 of those lines.
The Green Line also holds the distinction of being the oldest subway in the country, opening it's first section of tunnel in 1897. The original layout has not changed since then. The Boylston Street station claims another dubious honor, the tightest curved section of track for any subway. This leads to a sound all too familiar to Bostonians, the ear-wrenching squeel of metal wheels on metal rails.
The slow pendulum of transportation is finally swinging back towards mass transit after decades of construction focused on highways that bring workers from suburban Boston, around Interstates 95 and 495, to the downtown centers.
A new era of development has created even more demand for reliable, expedient public transit, but the state has failed to keep up with the times. An ever expanding college population offers a well educated workforce, but many of them refuse to pay for outrageously priced apartments if they cannot commute without a car.
The Green Line, which cuts through the heart of downtown Boston. has the highest ridership of any light rail in the country. It stretches from Cambridge, across the Charles River, and continues underground at North Station, home of the Boston Bruins and Celtics, until Kenmore Square, adjacent to Fenway Park. It then diverges to 4 separate lines that continue at street level, with the exception of 1 of those lines.
The Green Line also holds the distinction of being the oldest subway in the country, opening it's first section of tunnel in 1897. The original layout has not changed since then. The Boylston Street station claims another dubious honor, the tightest curved section of track for any subway. This leads to a sound all too familiar to Bostonians, the ear-wrenching squeel of metal wheels on metal rails.
The slow pendulum of transportation is finally swinging back towards mass transit after decades of construction focused on highways that bring workers from suburban Boston, around Interstates 95 and 495, to the downtown centers.
A new era of development has created even more demand for reliable, expedient public transit, but the state has failed to keep up with the times. An ever expanding college population offers a well educated workforce, but many of them refuse to pay for outrageously priced apartments if they cannot commute without a car.
thanks for getting to the heart of the matter. i'm sick of the mta blaming riders for delays.
4
Authorities, such as the MTA and the Port Authority, were specifically set up
during the mid 20th century to shield politicians from making (or not making) unpopular political and economic decisions. Governors Cuomo in NY and Christie in NJ can appoint members who profess to be independent and so can decide were to spend money and on which politically expedient project. The Governors then have "plausible deniability" if it turns out to politically unpopular (such as fare and toll hikes).
Nobody gets to vote on who sits on these Authorities and therefore they are not answerable to the people who actually use and need them, only to the governors who appoint them.
So, the much needed rail tunnel to NJ never gets built, the subway infrastructure languishes, the bridges and tunnels of the Bridge and Tunnel Authority wait until Sandy to get updated, etc.
The elected officials of the City of New York, including the Mayor, have practically no power (other than to beg or shame) these boards controlled by the Governors.
To truly bring the subway system into the 21st century, it's time to overhaul its governance.
during the mid 20th century to shield politicians from making (or not making) unpopular political and economic decisions. Governors Cuomo in NY and Christie in NJ can appoint members who profess to be independent and so can decide were to spend money and on which politically expedient project. The Governors then have "plausible deniability" if it turns out to politically unpopular (such as fare and toll hikes).
Nobody gets to vote on who sits on these Authorities and therefore they are not answerable to the people who actually use and need them, only to the governors who appoint them.
So, the much needed rail tunnel to NJ never gets built, the subway infrastructure languishes, the bridges and tunnels of the Bridge and Tunnel Authority wait until Sandy to get updated, etc.
The elected officials of the City of New York, including the Mayor, have practically no power (other than to beg or shame) these boards controlled by the Governors.
To truly bring the subway system into the 21st century, it's time to overhaul its governance.
17
Yes! What AWG said.
But I think it's worth saying out loud what few people have been willing to say out loud but has been obvious to me all along: Chris Christie killed the NJ-NY rail tunnel for the most selfish of political reasons - the national GOP and its primary voters are mostly hostile to rail transit on general principle, and Christie wanted to run for president, so he ended to project to make himself more appealing to GOP voters and power brokers.
But I think it's worth saying out loud what few people have been willing to say out loud but has been obvious to me all along: Chris Christie killed the NJ-NY rail tunnel for the most selfish of political reasons - the national GOP and its primary voters are mostly hostile to rail transit on general principle, and Christie wanted to run for president, so he ended to project to make himself more appealing to GOP voters and power brokers.
The working class needs good jobs. The infrastructure across the whole US needs massive upgrading. Why are politicians talking about anything else?
Shut a line down at 10PM till 6AM and add buses parallel to that route.
7
While a good idea, they already do that, it's called the "FASTTRACK" maintenance program, which has been around since 2012 and shuts down select lines Mon. to Fri. from 10pm to 5am. They announce a full year's schedule at one time, subject to change, and are pretty good about putting up signage to remind you when your line is being "FASTTRACKED". To my surprise, having just googled it, I see that they actually report what they were able to complete during the "FASTTRACK" closures. I guess things would be in even worse shape without it? I don't generally find the closures to be an issue, but I expect people who work later or nights probably find it disruptive.
London tube/underground system had the same trouble. I recall a notice a few years ago at the bottom of an old escalator in one of the stations stating, 'We apologise for any delay but we have not attended to our railways system for 90 years and we feel it is time we should."
5
When I saw this, I wish we did not spend all the money and lives on meaningless wars.
https://www.facebook.com/search/str/China's+railroad+building+machines/keywords_top
https://www.facebook.com/search/str/China's+railroad+building+machines/keywords_top
2
All I can say is that, at least twice a week, I'm hit with 20-plus minute delays on my way to work. It's unacceptable for close to $3 per ride, and exceptionally frustrating. No fan of de Blasio, but if he wants to leave even a slightly positive legacy, he should do what he can with the time he has left in office to fix New York's broken public transportation. It's a nightmare.
18
The MTA is controlled by Cuomo.
1
You read the part of the article where it says that the MTA is not De Blasio's responsibility but the governor's, didn't you? Or did you just go straight to the comments to vent?
4
Not sure if you read the article, considering this line: "Though many New Yorkers believe that Mayor Bill de Blasio runs the subways, the agency is, in fact, controlled by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo."
1
Very good article.
Yes, changes to the signalling system are needed, but more importantly, changes to the protocol for getting the work done, and controls over the qualify of the work are also needed. The work costs too much, and proceeds too slowly, and I believe much of this is because the system is controlled by the unions, and because the system is a monopoly.
We should be proud that the system is as safe as it is, but I'd hate to think that we will need several accidents to move ahead more quickly with modernization.
Yes, changes to the signalling system are needed, but more importantly, changes to the protocol for getting the work done, and controls over the qualify of the work are also needed. The work costs too much, and proceeds too slowly, and I believe much of this is because the system is controlled by the unions, and because the system is a monopoly.
We should be proud that the system is as safe as it is, but I'd hate to think that we will need several accidents to move ahead more quickly with modernization.
2
I see. It's the workers' fault, not the people who make the decisions. Got it.
3
Amazing to read that subway officials express their reluctance, with no apparent sense of irony, to close lines for desperately needed repair and upgrades because doing so will inconvenience riders, seemingly oblivious to the fact that if they don't, the inconvenience to the ridership will explode exponentially when the antiquated system finally fails. We just never seem to grasp that simple fact in this country when it comes to infrastructure: 'it'll be to expensive to fix it' is the standard refrain, yet the expense of not fixing it creeps up day by day... It's a form on insanity.
6
Here is an idea. Give the task of upgrading one line to the MTA and the other to a private sector company like Bectel. Put in an incentive to finish the work early and have a third party inspect the work. Let's see which gets done faster, cheaper, and/or better.
2
Bectel? like the Big Dig in Boston, or the incompetence at the National Labs? No thanks.
It's hard to believe that this discussion is even taking place. The subway is the lifeblood of the city. This should be done no questions asked.
3
Here's what needs to happen, and will never happen.
NYC needs to close for renovations. It needs to evacuate everyone to, say, Hawaii for a year and the subway system needs to be overhauled, the streets dug up and 100-year-old water pipes replaced instead of waiting for them to explode, the streets all need to be repaved, the bridges overhauled, the works.
NYC, and especially the transit system, is "this old house" and it won't be long before it doesn't work at all, like your iPhone from 2009 that finally boots up and the "sad face" appears.
NYC needs to close for renovations. It needs to evacuate everyone to, say, Hawaii for a year and the subway system needs to be overhauled, the streets dug up and 100-year-old water pipes replaced instead of waiting for them to explode, the streets all need to be repaved, the bridges overhauled, the works.
NYC, and especially the transit system, is "this old house" and it won't be long before it doesn't work at all, like your iPhone from 2009 that finally boots up and the "sad face" appears.
2
You know why that will never happen, JMax? Because it makes no sense.
1
I know nothing about the logistics of subway signals but why transponders every 500 feet? Sounds like the London system is antiquated as well. There are no transponders in the sky and yet we track every airplane that is flying across our globe. Put the transponders on the train. Additional and for redundancy, light sensors with wireless technology against the walls that track train locations and a computer that crunches the algorithm to make it all work. We are capable of developing driverless cars which seems a lot more complicated but cannot do the same with a vehicle that runs on rails and has less variables to deal with than an automobile in an urban setting? Am I missing something here?
2
The antiquated signaling system is certainly a huge issue that needs to be addressed. But there are low-tech efforts that the MTA could be doing right now, today to improve riders' experience: using high pressure cleaning machines to clean subway platforms and stations, for example.
Even more basic: mops, buckets, sponges, hot water and bleach would go a long to improve the appearance and sanitation of stations and trains.
C'mon! You're not going to tell me that the MTA can't afford to buy those basic items and put people to work using them! And I mean at every station, not just the ones used by tourists and weekend shoppers.
Even more basic: mops, buckets, sponges, hot water and bleach would go a long to improve the appearance and sanitation of stations and trains.
C'mon! You're not going to tell me that the MTA can't afford to buy those basic items and put people to work using them! And I mean at every station, not just the ones used by tourists and weekend shoppers.
2
The problem is that with any public works project, those who control the money have no clue or care about projects that don't bolster their poll numbers, and the people paid to solve problems within the systems are always used to insane budgets that can allow a project to fester for years without progress.
Good, smart engineering can solve almost any problem.
Trains run on tracks in only one direction of travel on fixed rails, it's not such a hard system to manage compared to say air traffic control where there are 5 permutations of where an aircraft can move in space (6 for helicopters), and those aircraft are sometimes moving 20 times faster than a NYC subway car.
Given that trains run on tracks that are made of metal, with wheels that come in contact with them (along with a rail that supplies power), there are certainly methods in electrical engineering that can transmit digital data along these existing rails.
Talking about how stuff like that works, bores the heck out of people, especially the ones who are just thinking about their next fundraising meal.
If it took less time to build a switching system in the 1930's than it takes to upgrade to modern equipment with all the improvements of things like personal computers (1970's tech) and fiber optics (1980's) and precise positioning systems (1990's) and lidar/sensor based driver assist (2000's).
Excuses should be challenged, but hey, I'll take a billion dollars to engineer nothing too.
Good, smart engineering can solve almost any problem.
Trains run on tracks in only one direction of travel on fixed rails, it's not such a hard system to manage compared to say air traffic control where there are 5 permutations of where an aircraft can move in space (6 for helicopters), and those aircraft are sometimes moving 20 times faster than a NYC subway car.
Given that trains run on tracks that are made of metal, with wheels that come in contact with them (along with a rail that supplies power), there are certainly methods in electrical engineering that can transmit digital data along these existing rails.
Talking about how stuff like that works, bores the heck out of people, especially the ones who are just thinking about their next fundraising meal.
If it took less time to build a switching system in the 1930's than it takes to upgrade to modern equipment with all the improvements of things like personal computers (1970's tech) and fiber optics (1980's) and precise positioning systems (1990's) and lidar/sensor based driver assist (2000's).
Excuses should be challenged, but hey, I'll take a billion dollars to engineer nothing too.
To me, this article addresses the divide of the public and private spheres in American life, which are only magnified in New York and how the major parties, politicians and citizens have abandoned the notion of a public good that could drive prosperity and shared benefits. In NYC, private facilities - e.g., private hospitals, private schools - are among the best, if not the best, in the world. Public facilities, and spaces, especially those created since the end of World War II - Penn Station, the Port Authority, LaGuardia and JFK Airports, our public schools (with some notable exceptions) and our public transportation system - are a shameful embarrassment to the richest city on earth.
This is a matter of culture - refusing to invest in basic infrastructure that benefits the overwhelming majority, accepting the dismal public amenities as the best we can have, without upsetting the wealthy, whose incomes skyrocket while working and middle class incomes stagnate.
New Yorkers are culturally habituated to and accept dirt, trash and substandard services and infrastructure as normal. Compare our increasingly filthy, trash-strewn streets with those of London, Paris and other cities. (An outstanding exception is Central Park, a public-private partnership that demonstrates how we can be world class.)
Our decrepit subway infrastructure is a metaphor for our abandonment of the public sphere and public good as worthy of for our ambitions.
This is a matter of culture - refusing to invest in basic infrastructure that benefits the overwhelming majority, accepting the dismal public amenities as the best we can have, without upsetting the wealthy, whose incomes skyrocket while working and middle class incomes stagnate.
New Yorkers are culturally habituated to and accept dirt, trash and substandard services and infrastructure as normal. Compare our increasingly filthy, trash-strewn streets with those of London, Paris and other cities. (An outstanding exception is Central Park, a public-private partnership that demonstrates how we can be world class.)
Our decrepit subway infrastructure is a metaphor for our abandonment of the public sphere and public good as worthy of for our ambitions.
8
I beg to differ with your calling out of Central Park as a great example of "public-private partnership." This union-busting scam perpetrated by Bloomberg brought in volunteers to take the place of tenured city workers who were well trained and equipped to maintain the park. Since Bloomberg's great vision of the Central Park Conservancy (translation: replace city workers with volunteers), how many people have been killed by limbs falling from un-maintained trees? Three by my count. One an infant. These "public-private partnerships" may save a lot of money but they cost a lot in terms of human life.
2
We're always having service cuts and disruptions on the A Train. This weekend there was NO service at all. Was any work actually done? Who knows. We didn't see any work being done. If the MTA is going to shut down a line that tens of thousands of people use - for an ENTIRE weekend - then the MTA needs to be working on that line - for the ENTIRE weekend. Otherwise there is no justification for shutting it down at all. I don't want to hear the excuse that the MTA doesn't have enough people. HIRE SOME PEOPLE. God knows there are enough of us out here who'd love to have the job.
3
Incompetence is too kind a word to describe this situation. The MTA with a straight face says 30 more years won't be enough time. So let's do a little math.
30 years, as every homeowner knows, is 360 months. That's means about 1 station/month. The system has 665 miles of track. That's 2 mile/month or, yes, 100 yard/day. Doesn't that seem a little slow? Like, what one man could do alone in one shift? 12 yards an hour?
I get that digging tunnels and building new stations is hard. So I'm not surprised the 2nd avenue subway came in at twice the budget in time and money. But a signaling system is not hard. There's oodles of robotics and computer experience on tap in New York. The MTA thinks it's hard because it's outside its ken, and covers up its ignorance with callous bureaucratic timelines.
If the MTA wanted to and cared to learn how, this project could be done in 5 years, entirely at night. Close one station a night for a week at a time. Get enough people on site to get the work done in that window. Have a separate crew on a coordinated schedule lay the wires and sensors on nearby track. Do 1 line at a time, end to end, so riders can see improvements associated with the disruption.
1 station/week instead of 1/month is 5 years instead of 30. The MTA itself says money's not the problem, and they're right. Commitment is the problem. No one there really cares.
30 years, as every homeowner knows, is 360 months. That's means about 1 station/month. The system has 665 miles of track. That's 2 mile/month or, yes, 100 yard/day. Doesn't that seem a little slow? Like, what one man could do alone in one shift? 12 yards an hour?
I get that digging tunnels and building new stations is hard. So I'm not surprised the 2nd avenue subway came in at twice the budget in time and money. But a signaling system is not hard. There's oodles of robotics and computer experience on tap in New York. The MTA thinks it's hard because it's outside its ken, and covers up its ignorance with callous bureaucratic timelines.
If the MTA wanted to and cared to learn how, this project could be done in 5 years, entirely at night. Close one station a night for a week at a time. Get enough people on site to get the work done in that window. Have a separate crew on a coordinated schedule lay the wires and sensors on nearby track. Do 1 line at a time, end to end, so riders can see improvements associated with the disruption.
1 station/week instead of 1/month is 5 years instead of 30. The MTA itself says money's not the problem, and they're right. Commitment is the problem. No one there really cares.
20
I think that the restoration of service after Storm Sandy speaks volumes about the professionalism of the MTA staff. Given the proper funding and out-of-service track time, they got the system up and running with admirable speed.
However, funding and out-of-service tracks are generally in short supply. The federal government looks askance at public transportation, Albany doesn't regard the subway system as a priority, and the public thinks they pay too much already. Add to that the hue and cry whenever tracks are taken out of service. MTA becomes the favorite scapegoat, but there are many groups preventing them from efficiently doing their job
The system was brought back from it's deathbed in the 1970s only when we all recognized the crisis. Hopefully, articles like this will raise awareness of the issues at hand. It's time to stop finger pointing and get to work.
However, funding and out-of-service tracks are generally in short supply. The federal government looks askance at public transportation, Albany doesn't regard the subway system as a priority, and the public thinks they pay too much already. Add to that the hue and cry whenever tracks are taken out of service. MTA becomes the favorite scapegoat, but there are many groups preventing them from efficiently doing their job
The system was brought back from it's deathbed in the 1970s only when we all recognized the crisis. Hopefully, articles like this will raise awareness of the issues at hand. It's time to stop finger pointing and get to work.
2
The last photo appears to illustrate part of the problem: There is one guy working and five guys standing around. Unfortunately, based on what I've seen of MTA workers around work sites, that appears to be the rule rather than the exception.
It is impossible to imagine any business in New York running on this type of absurdly antiquated technology. And were the subways regulated by government, instead of being run by it, they would have been forced to modernize decades ago for obvious safety reasons.
I read several bogus explanations for why this has been allowed to happen. I didn't see any mention of the swollen salaries and pensions of union employees and the unsustainable chunk of the MTA's revenue that they consume. The simple explanation is that government is not capable of running a capital-intensive endeavor like the subway system. The solution is simple: sell off the subway and allow it to be properly capitalized so that the infrastructure can be upgraded and maintained into the future.
But of course New Yorkers will never allow that to happen.
I read several bogus explanations for why this has been allowed to happen. I didn't see any mention of the swollen salaries and pensions of union employees and the unsustainable chunk of the MTA's revenue that they consume. The simple explanation is that government is not capable of running a capital-intensive endeavor like the subway system. The solution is simple: sell off the subway and allow it to be properly capitalized so that the infrastructure can be upgraded and maintained into the future.
But of course New Yorkers will never allow that to happen.
If they charged 1930s fares...this would almost make sense.
4
So much to say. I will try to be brief.
I write to you from an apartment on Riverside Drive and 114th Street, visiting NYC after being away for 3 years and living here all my life previously.
Biggest surprise - a dollar now charged for a Metro card.
Imagine attending a show and being charged not just for the ticket, but for the paper it's printed on. Or this being 1970 and a dollar charge for the token.
Roll over, Fiorello LaGuardia!
Where is this money going, I wonder?
I write to you from an apartment on Riverside Drive and 114th Street, visiting NYC after being away for 3 years and living here all my life previously.
Biggest surprise - a dollar now charged for a Metro card.
Imagine attending a show and being charged not just for the ticket, but for the paper it's printed on. Or this being 1970 and a dollar charge for the token.
Roll over, Fiorello LaGuardia!
Where is this money going, I wonder?
2
The quality of the subway is a major contributor to the quality of life in the city. Reliability is important, but so are head times. During non-peak times, trains seem to run far less frequently than they used to, especially at night and on weekends. In neighborhoods on the periphery of the city, they're starting to drop the shuttle buses that replace the train service during construction.
The Times could play a big role in helping us push back by shining more light on the situation. The phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway project is supposed to cost $6 billion. A detailed deep dive into where that money actually goes, and how our costs compare to the costs in other cities would be invaluable.
And so would high profile reporting that simply tracks changes in service on a macro level. I believe that head times have been increasing a lot, but I don't really know that to be true. Does anyone outside of the MTA track head times? How are decisions about such things made? How much does the MTA save if it shaves a run off of the 6 line every hour during the afternoon over the weekend? How does the MTA balance off the day to day operation of the system vs. long term improvements?
The Times could play a big role in helping us push back by shining more light on the situation. The phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway project is supposed to cost $6 billion. A detailed deep dive into where that money actually goes, and how our costs compare to the costs in other cities would be invaluable.
And so would high profile reporting that simply tracks changes in service on a macro level. I believe that head times have been increasing a lot, but I don't really know that to be true. Does anyone outside of the MTA track head times? How are decisions about such things made? How much does the MTA save if it shaves a run off of the 6 line every hour during the afternoon over the weekend? How does the MTA balance off the day to day operation of the system vs. long term improvements?
1
the focus on signal modernization needs to be on the trunk lines in Manhattan next and their tunnels to the outer boros, with painful night and weekend closures on either or both the local and express tracks of the 8th ave, 7th ave, 6th ave, Broadway, and Lexington Ave trunk lines.
The insight gained from working on these lines can be used to do the trunk of the Queens Bvld line as well as the THREE tunnels (63rd, 60th, 53rd) that serve it. After that, move on to the remaining line segments with multiple services: Eastern Pkwy (2345), Brighton (BQ), Fulton (AC), 4th Ave (DNR), Culver (FG), Jamaica (JMZ) lines in Brooklyn; Jerome Ave (4), White Plains Road (25), Pelham (6), and Concourse (BD) in the Bronx; the 23 in Manhattan; and the NW in Queens. Then, the single-service ends of lines: the A, C, F, G J, M, N, and R trains in Brooklyn, the 2 and 5 in the Bronx, the E, F, G, M in Queens; and the 1, A, C in Manhattan.
This is a huge amount of work, but there's no point in starting (for example) working on the 6th ave line with the end of the M in Middle Village! The trunk lines have to be first, as they need the highest capacity. The upgrades can radiate out from there. This has the added benefit of relying on the redundancy of the Manhattan lines to alleviate the pain. With real investments in physically separated bus lanes on the streets and bridges in the densest parts of town and five-boro bike infrastructure, NYC could transform itself into a city that doesn't need cars.
The insight gained from working on these lines can be used to do the trunk of the Queens Bvld line as well as the THREE tunnels (63rd, 60th, 53rd) that serve it. After that, move on to the remaining line segments with multiple services: Eastern Pkwy (2345), Brighton (BQ), Fulton (AC), 4th Ave (DNR), Culver (FG), Jamaica (JMZ) lines in Brooklyn; Jerome Ave (4), White Plains Road (25), Pelham (6), and Concourse (BD) in the Bronx; the 23 in Manhattan; and the NW in Queens. Then, the single-service ends of lines: the A, C, F, G J, M, N, and R trains in Brooklyn, the 2 and 5 in the Bronx, the E, F, G, M in Queens; and the 1, A, C in Manhattan.
This is a huge amount of work, but there's no point in starting (for example) working on the 6th ave line with the end of the M in Middle Village! The trunk lines have to be first, as they need the highest capacity. The upgrades can radiate out from there. This has the added benefit of relying on the redundancy of the Manhattan lines to alleviate the pain. With real investments in physically separated bus lanes on the streets and bridges in the densest parts of town and five-boro bike infrastructure, NYC could transform itself into a city that doesn't need cars.
6 million rides a day...The state of Alaska has 725,000 residents. So we could put the entire state of Alaska, Wyoming, Vermont, or Maine on the subway and not even notice.
To Republicans and Ayn Rand enthusiasts, the subway does not have to turn a profit. It has to be reliable so everyone can make it to the appointments on time and the economy humms along. More taxes, more revenue everyone wins.
Imagine if we gave the MTA the same funding as the Bridge to Nowhere. Or, the entire state of Alaska!
To Republicans and Ayn Rand enthusiasts, the subway does not have to turn a profit. It has to be reliable so everyone can make it to the appointments on time and the economy humms along. More taxes, more revenue everyone wins.
Imagine if we gave the MTA the same funding as the Bridge to Nowhere. Or, the entire state of Alaska!
2
Here in Toronto we are facing a smaller version of the same problem. The Toronto Transit Commission is replacing the original signal system that was installed in the 1950s. To do so, it closes sections of the system for a weekend at a time. They run shuttle busses between the affected stations. Is it a pain? Sure, but you can tell progress is being made as the closures move to different area of the system.
The article indicates that the MTA is reluctant to close sections of track because it inconveniences passengers. But by not changing the system efficiently they inconvenience passengers every single day. It’s the old, do you want to pay now, or do you want to pay later?
The MTA should have the nerve and brains to tackle the problem head on. Plan the track closing for a weekend or a week. Advertise the upcoming closing widely. Commander a section of the street above ground and block a lane to all but bus traffic for the length of the closure. Put surface route busses in service on that dedicated bus lane to replace the lost subway service. Get multiple crews working underground 24-hours a day to finish that section.
Then do it again. You can have short-term pain or long-term pain, but solving the problem will never, ever be pain free.
The article indicates that the MTA is reluctant to close sections of track because it inconveniences passengers. But by not changing the system efficiently they inconvenience passengers every single day. It’s the old, do you want to pay now, or do you want to pay later?
The MTA should have the nerve and brains to tackle the problem head on. Plan the track closing for a weekend or a week. Advertise the upcoming closing widely. Commander a section of the street above ground and block a lane to all but bus traffic for the length of the closure. Put surface route busses in service on that dedicated bus lane to replace the lost subway service. Get multiple crews working underground 24-hours a day to finish that section.
Then do it again. You can have short-term pain or long-term pain, but solving the problem will never, ever be pain free.
4
The New York subway system is one of the epic failures of New York. While the city is as overdeveloped as real estate and plum tax abatements to developers can make it, its infrastructure is never much more than an afterthought. Another example of a mentality where government partners with corporations over the essential needs of their citizens. The bus system is so overburdened as to leave passengers not just at rush hour nearly lifted off the ground by the sheer force of the number of riders. The schedule leaves one waiting often 15 and 20 minutes between buses in peak hours on peak routes.
Living in this city for nearly 40 years, I have been mainly appalled at the third rate service New Yorkers suffer for living here and paying high taxes. Travel to any world class city and the much higher standard in transit systems is downright shocking. The MTA can't even manage a route map in a subway train. Or a public announcement system that can be heard and understood on more than 50% of the trains. Or subway stations that aren't often though not always filthy. This is not just a matter of failing to modernize with the times. It is a colossal failure of will.
When I return from London and the pleasure of riding its Tube and buses, I don't know why I live here.
Living in this city for nearly 40 years, I have been mainly appalled at the third rate service New Yorkers suffer for living here and paying high taxes. Travel to any world class city and the much higher standard in transit systems is downright shocking. The MTA can't even manage a route map in a subway train. Or a public announcement system that can be heard and understood on more than 50% of the trains. Or subway stations that aren't often though not always filthy. This is not just a matter of failing to modernize with the times. It is a colossal failure of will.
When I return from London and the pleasure of riding its Tube and buses, I don't know why I live here.
15
Very tired of the constant delays. N/W service has tanked completely.
Welcome to US civic engineering. Here in Boston they are extending a subway line 4-5 miles, on land that already is a RR right of way, so it's graded, etc, appropriately. it will take 10 years of construction work ... that is, after all the court fights and legal hoohaa and permitting and so on and so forth -- 10 years of hardhats wielding tools. And at a cost expected to be about $3B, This comes to about 800 days/mile and $10k/inch.
The Swiss just opened the Gotthard Base Tunnel ... two rail tunnels through granite under the alps. It is over 35 miles long, took 17 years to build and cost $12B. Or about 177 days/mile and about $5400/inch.
Putting some boxes along/under existing track and wiring them together will probably take until the third coming and cost the aggregate GDP of the Western Hemisphere.
And Trump's famed infrastructure plan ... that will employ one guy, half time, starting at about the time the universe reaches maximum entropy.
The Swiss just opened the Gotthard Base Tunnel ... two rail tunnels through granite under the alps. It is over 35 miles long, took 17 years to build and cost $12B. Or about 177 days/mile and about $5400/inch.
Putting some boxes along/under existing track and wiring them together will probably take until the third coming and cost the aggregate GDP of the Western Hemisphere.
And Trump's famed infrastructure plan ... that will employ one guy, half time, starting at about the time the universe reaches maximum entropy.
3
Don't ever compare our infrastructure and efficient engineering to the Swiss.
Remember the Big Dig?
Could of used some of their expertise for that one. No?
Remember the Big Dig?
Could of used some of their expertise for that one. No?
1
There will come a day when all of our commuting possibilities will come to a stand still. Gridlock on the roads and subway disruptions. Wait a minute, that day is EVERYDAY! What are we waiting for? Christmas 2035? Better get busy, now.
For it usually takes 10 years to decide whether or not to do something and get the permits, then the contract bids, etc. This process of course should have started at least 20 years ago. What a bunch of losers we are. Our country has truly ended up in the trash bin of history, right where it belongs.
We don't even have trains to most of our airports in this country. We are pathetic. Too many people, all trying to clamour aboard our archaic infrastructure. Can you imagine what it will be like in another 25 years?
For it usually takes 10 years to decide whether or not to do something and get the permits, then the contract bids, etc. This process of course should have started at least 20 years ago. What a bunch of losers we are. Our country has truly ended up in the trash bin of history, right where it belongs.
We don't even have trains to most of our airports in this country. We are pathetic. Too many people, all trying to clamour aboard our archaic infrastructure. Can you imagine what it will be like in another 25 years?
15 years ago met some rail engineers that worked world-wide on various projects, and told me that the MTA administrators were too cheap on modernizing their system with newer and better technologies, and insisted in keeping the old signal system in. It was a financial boon to old companies that still kept inventory of old components, and to old engineers that were doing the same jobs as decades before. Now,, I see this on the front page. Great.
2
Another example of poor government. Costs are out of control while services languish. Most weekends there is limited train service to lower Manhattan because of alleged "track work" -- though the only visible track work is a few workers dawdling about.
3
I spent a month in Delhi this spring, during which time I had the opportunity to make extensive use of its subway system. It beats ours in every dimension. If the MTA hasn't done it already, it should send a team to Delhi to see how a really good system works.
1
I wonder if this writer and the traveling public at large understand the cost of modernization the subway's signaling system ?
Especially, for a public utility which normally lives hand to mouth money wise.
Such an undertaking which require large infusions of taxpayers' cash and riders' patience. Modernization of the signaling plant is not like installing a new television, where you go to the store and put the new one in your home.
A new signal system would take years to design, test, implement, test again, work out the bugs, and train personnel on its use before it is operational.
The new system would take a lot of getting use to resulting in train delays and altering of schedules and the other tasks associated with such a revision.
Especially, for a public utility which normally lives hand to mouth money wise.
Such an undertaking which require large infusions of taxpayers' cash and riders' patience. Modernization of the signaling plant is not like installing a new television, where you go to the store and put the new one in your home.
A new signal system would take years to design, test, implement, test again, work out the bugs, and train personnel on its use before it is operational.
The new system would take a lot of getting use to resulting in train delays and altering of schedules and the other tasks associated with such a revision.
1
Where'd the money go???
1
77% goes to payroll/benefits for their employees --- a LARGE chunk for those already retired.
http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/pdf/MTA%202015%20Adopted%20Budget%20Febru...
http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/pdf/MTA%202015%20Adopted%20Budget%20Febru...
There once was an archaic subway
One well past its glorious heyday
In need of some money
So much it ain’t funny
To keep the city’s collapse at bay
One well past its glorious heyday
In need of some money
So much it ain’t funny
To keep the city’s collapse at bay
2
New York subway system is equivalent to a 3rd world country. Dirty, noisy, unsafe....
1
I have lived in both London and Signapore. Our infrastructure is indeed an embaresment. Not only do London trains come every couple of minutes, but the tracks are spotless. People wouldn't have to run and hold the doors if they knew a train was right behind the current one. Singapore is a whole other level of nice, but I won't get into that. What I will say is hat they have doors at the platform that prevent people from falling on the tracks. As the MTA advertises, about 50 people a year die from being hit by a train...that's all preventable with these doors. NY building code stipulates that such change in elevation requires a guard rail, regardless of a 100 ton machine coming at you.
This is one of the main reasons why people who agree that changes like single payer health insurance is a good idea EXCEPT if it's run by the government!! The government ROUTINELY fouls things up. The list of reasons are too long to go into here, but we all know most of them already.
Nobody of substance is ever held personally responsible for malfeasance. The blame is usually laid at the feet of some poor working stiff or low level manager with little power to make things right.
Half a century to fix signals. Why bother. By that time everyone will be traveling by personal drone and the subways will be left to generations of rats that haven't made it their home already.
Nobody of substance is ever held personally responsible for malfeasance. The blame is usually laid at the feet of some poor working stiff or low level manager with little power to make things right.
Half a century to fix signals. Why bother. By that time everyone will be traveling by personal drone and the subways will be left to generations of rats that haven't made it their home already.
2
So sick of government wasting all our money with nothing to show for it. Our subways are an embarrassment. Our airports, embarrassment. Our roads, embarrassment. Yet, we give the state - (Cuomo & NY Democrats!) billions for the MTA, along with $120/month, along with outrageous tolls on bridges - $17 for the Verrazano?! It's funny, it almost seems as if our government - whether Dem or Rep - has zero interest in returning to the people, that work hard to give them their hard earned money, any sort of goods or services to make a civilized society.
3
How many of these commuters support Republican members of Congress who don't give a rat's behind about NYC's mass transit system? ie. guys like Donovan dutifully support their majority caucus.
"We are being held by the dispatcher. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you."
1
And yet since I moved to NYC in 1995 the cost of a ride has doubled. In twenty years And the $15 price of coming into Manhattan over a bridge is up there in the stratosphere beyond outrageous--especially for people who live here and use those bridges every...single...day. I know there are mystical, magical forces at play here which I can never understand. But to the layman, these astonishing, backbreaking, outlandish increases seem jaw-droppingly unfair, especially in light of our ability to physically--and oh so lamentably--compare our NYC mass transit experiences with those in other states and countries. Wherein does the vast incompetence lie?
2
As a native New Yorker I mourn the lack of progress in our infrastructure. We have so much talent, tech savvy and brawn in our nation and yet year after decade after decade we have poured trillions into weaponry. A product that makes us less safe as we build more of it and one that has no purpose but destroy and to enrich the few. When are we going to build again? I can only hope for an awakening. We should have modern trains. New York transit needs an overhaul (LA and SF too). Bullet rail, monorail, and a subway for the premiere city of the world that would be on par with the great subway systems of the world. And subway stations that are modernized as well. Our youth has the energy and technical brilliance and desire to do this kind of work. Where are the New Deal leaders?
157
The Los Angeles Metro is only 25 years old and continues to expand.
MUNI runs on the surface streets of San Francisco. Only a portion runs as MUNI Metro underneath Market Street. Additionally, MUNI has antiquated work rules that negatively impact timeliness and reliability.
Neither of them have the same problems as New York's much larger and older transit systems.
MUNI runs on the surface streets of San Francisco. Only a portion runs as MUNI Metro underneath Market Street. Additionally, MUNI has antiquated work rules that negatively impact timeliness and reliability.
Neither of them have the same problems as New York's much larger and older transit systems.
So you think that the fares that you pay makes weapons? Your system sucks because your leaders have allowed it to get there, not due to weapons. And I bet those great computer systems started out in the defense department a long time ago.
Don't forget Chicago! We have millions who depend on public transportation every day and yet we let it fall apart.
1
Great article, and it hit on the biggest problem we face: Cost. I'd love to see a whole other article about why our infrastructure costs are up to 4 times as much as London, Paris or Tokyo. All three of those examples are in far older cities than New York and exist in a similar union-work style labor environment.
Why do our upgrades, equipment and big projects have far larger price tags than theirs? Seems like we're only getting 1/4 of the value.
Why do our upgrades, equipment and big projects have far larger price tags than theirs? Seems like we're only getting 1/4 of the value.
56
Bureaucracy, lawyers, bloated salaries and benefits, little to no acccountabilty, years wasted on one study after another, environmental demands, etc., etc. How's that for a start?
3
As is our medical care system.
1
My guess it's something that has to do with insurance. It's not like workers in Tokyo are getting paid less.
"Don't fix what aint broke" - the guiding mantra for all infrastructure in New York. It's a philosophy, a worldview. At bottom it's a gamble on what you can get away with, and a certain pride in knowing the moves, the alternative paths. It is also fundamentally irrational. A bad gamble. People whine about service interruptions needed to upgrade the subway system, but when the inevitable occurs - namely major system failure - the service will be interrupted for sure, and in a bigger way. But I suppose New Yorkers are OK with that - at least it would be a dramatic shared experience, not some shadowy background process.
6
Don't speak for New Yorkers. Thanks
Like others have said, easier to pay for cosmetic fixes, new stations, better lighting, new escalators, than invest in the unseen infrastructure. Looking at the photos reminds me of something from Victorian era. I am surprised it has lasted this long without some major catastrophe. MTA will need to make commuters unhappy with reasonable closures and not look for more excuses to delay further.
One good thing - the system is so antiquated, probably immune to computer hackers.
One good thing - the system is so antiquated, probably immune to computer hackers.
5
A key problem is that Gov. Cuomo defines "economic development" as something for which he can issue a press release and personally decide, without meaningful oversight, where to spend the billions (yes billions). Since signal work doesn't meet these criteria, it doesn't get properly funded or managed, despite the subway system being the linchpin our our local economy.
And our state legislature rolls over for him.
And our state legislature rolls over for him.
7
The NYC subway system will collapse under the increase of ridership with few running trains while lines are being upgraded. This is the consequence of small government thinking and indifference to the infrastructure of public transportation in the US. The US is at least 40 years behind the rest of the modern world and will never catch up.
7
All I know is that for many years the NYC subway has had late night and weekend changes and cancellations of service due to maintenance work. I keep asking myself how is it possible that this never ends, that the project is never completed.
5
It never ends because maintenance is forever.
2
Maybe the MTA's main reason for not shutting down subway lines is not a concern for its reputation/costumer satisfaction but rather a belief that the alternative methods of transit (buses, etc) would be utterly unable to meet the demand.
1
My first experience with MTA staff on the subway, many years ago, was when I swiped a card and was told "see agent." The agent in the booth was a heavy set woman in her 50's who had just painted her nails and was fanning them to dry them. She told us "You gonna have to wait until my nails is dry before I take a look at that." Since then I've seen evidence of this culture of incompetence and laziness all over the subway, every single day of the week, and it terrifies me to think how much of our revenue is wasted on the support of people like this.
91
Not so long ago I witnessed an angry or mentally disturbed rider threatening a booth agent in a frightening rage. Had the agent not been protected I'm convinced she would have been assaulted. Not such an easy job.
2
I'm sorry but how is this relevant to how efficiently or competently they do their jobs? This is New York City, we're all under constant threat from crazies, every day. You sound like John Samuelson who constantly uses his depiction of MTA workers as brave heroes who are under threat from violence as political leverage. Anyone who works with the public in this city is under threat every day. MTA workers are nothing special. Try working in a bodega in the Bronx.
I'm simply curious: If she had been a fit 20 year old, would it have impacted your view of the nail-painting? If not, why did you include these details about her?
1
Thankfully engineers decades ago at least designed and built reliable systems. Without that the whole mess would have collapsed by now as we dally, make unfulfilled promises and pay ever more in salaries and benefits to the workers and administrators while improving nothing.
5
Upgrading the current system should be covered under everyday maintaining and not be paid for with more debt. Expanding the overcrowded system should be the number capital priority since constructing new lines takes years of time planning and review. New York City should be looking at adding 80 miles of new lines, mostly in underserved outer boroughs over the next 20 years. Los Angeles has approved $120 billion in rail expansion over the next 40 years. We can exceed that figure with a modest commuter tax.
5
I just read a web story talking about the top 20 cities of public transportation in the US. NY city is the number one in the country. If NY is that bad, I cannot image how bad the public transportation system of the bottom 20 cities in the country. If our excuse of doing nothing in the public transportation is because of lack of money, I would totally reject that explanation. We spend so much money to rebuild other countries and we do not have money for our own country is an inexcusable. Our priority is totally wrong.
3
The federal government should have invested in infrastructure. but the last Republican to do that was Eisenhower, who warned about the military industrial complex. Now, our country is always focused on war and munitions. Reagan and the Bushes redistributed the wealth of the nation to a few, killing off the middle class. This is where we are.
11
Interesting how you omitted all of the Democrats in power who likewise have done nothing!
Another reason for this may be found in Ike's original speech, which described a Military, Industrial and Congressional complex. Until his speechwriter removed "congressional".
I'll chime in to add here, too, that Obama had infrastructure as a priority only to be thwarted by McConnell and his complicit Republican senators. I don't see much getting done here as long as McConnell's still majority leader -- he's already said it's still not a priority even under a Trump administration.
1
The MTA is a patronage machine for the NY governor (regardless of political party). It needs to be removed from the control by the state and made politically independent. The MTA is a down-state issue - no one north of Newburgh cares about the LIRR, the subway, or Metro North. Heck, ask anyone in Syracuse, Rochester or Buffalo about the MTA and you will get a blank stare.
Once the MTA is out from under the governor's control, it can negotiate with the legislature for funding, issue its own debt and be responsive to the needs of its customers.
Once the MTA is out from under the governor's control, it can negotiate with the legislature for funding, issue its own debt and be responsive to the needs of its customers.
37
Yo mean north of New Paltz or Poughkeepsie?
If I can write an app for my iPhone to have Automatic Train Control for my model trains, I thick spending billion in NYC for "signals" is an outrage. NYC subways should have followed SAN Francisco 's Bart years ago in automating "signaling"
With airplanes that fly themselves and cars that drive themselves, it is way past time to have trains that can follow tracks by themselves. NYC is such a wonderful museum.
With airplanes that fly themselves and cars that drive themselves, it is way past time to have trains that can follow tracks by themselves. NYC is such a wonderful museum.
15
If the rich had to rely on the subway, the system would be funded and fixed.
82
the rich do depend on the subway-its the most efficient form of transport we have-do we need a go-fund me campaign?-sad that the life blood of the city has been neglected and underfunded due to Albany/City political nonsense
Its time for the funding to be raised to repair/replace and insure a modern functioning system NOW.
Its time for the funding to be raised to repair/replace and insure a modern functioning system NOW.
3
The rich do ride the subway...its the most efficient mode of transport in the City, despite its many ills.
If you think back to the 1980's, there were lengthy delays on the E and F lines due to track inspections, faulty track, etc. The MTA can't catch up with needed repairs to station walls/ceilings that spew heaven knows what, elevators/escalators in disrepair, etc. Agencies must stay on top of maintenance from the get go, otherwise the system breaks down.
3
Nearly a hundred years ago, the country that built the tallest buildings in the world out of steel and concrete when the rest of the world had a five story view. We built the Hoover Dam, moving earth and rerouting nature during The Depression in record speed. We invented the Internet. Who would've thought updating a train system was beyond our abilities. The entire debacle, reeks of greed and laziness.
78
Updating a train system isn't beyond our abilities. But updating a train system *while it's running* is beyond just about everyone's abilities, the same way that repairing a car while it's being driven down a highway is.
Empire State Building, start to finish, 13 months? Can you imagine that today?
1
I would recommend policies the left leaning New Yorkers would recommend for the rest of the country - tax and spend residents of New York state to pay for it, regardless of the waste and inefficiencies. And lower transit fares even lower so more people can afford it; in fact just make it free - free transportation should be a right. And the unions, left leaning New Yorkers love the unions - leave them alone and let them make a lot of money at your expense.
3
Or maybe we could just keep our own federal tax dollars rather than being compelled to send them to states like Georgia.
7
Yes, you can keep your tax dollars, and pay for Obamacare yourself, too, and keep your ridiculous major. And instead of voting to raise taxes for everyone, just volunteer to pay more on your own.
Or, like Atlanta, use federal funds to build more and more highways crisscrossing your city so everyone can stay in their air-conditiioned cars while they sit in endless traffic jams. Funny how often free-market fiscal conservatives are from states that take more from the fed than they pay into it (hint: if you see confederate flags flying, you're probably in a state mooching off the rest of us).
American public transport systems are woeful ! The car rules. It is time for American state and federal governments to invest in public transport. Long over due - China, France, Spain, Japan - are all passing America out.
15
I really hope Governor Cuomo is reading this over his morning coffee right now. The cost of CBTC is minuscule compared to the cost of not doing it (when you realize that every signal malfunction is a multi-million $ hit to NY's economy), and with an engaged governor we could do it system-wide in 5 years instead of 50.
2
I ride the A train a lot. At the 181st. Washington Heights stop there is an elevator that goes from the tracks up to Fort Washington. Sometimes there is an MTA worker in their orange vest and headphones to push the button to take you up or down. Sometimes we are stuck with this laborious duty ourselves.
I always wonder what the operator that hits that one choice button gets an hour to do that job.
totally mind boggling.
I always wonder what the operator that hits that one choice button gets an hour to do that job.
totally mind boggling.
There is an elevator bank to the #1 train at 168th St with one of the 4 elevators staffed by a full time operator. This is for safety reasons, There are vulnerable populations that need an employee in an elevator.
1
I have lived on the 7 line for well over 10 years now. During this time, every weekend, in the Winter and Spring, there is shutdown to do signals work and other work which the MTA fails to explain to the riding public. I have not noticed any improvements in service during this time. Indeed, I find the timing of work highly suspect: magically, all work is complete as soon as baseball season begins, when all the white people from Manhattan come ride the 7 train to watch the mets.
6
At least the current system is safe from computer hackers!
6
Great article! This is the single most important way to increase capacity in our subways. We need to get better at upgrading these systems to keep up with the enormous growth of our ridership.
Here's a nice video that explains this technology:
https://vimeo.com/93485551
Here's a nice video that explains this technology:
https://vimeo.com/93485551
16
This is definitely an agency that has grossly mismanaged the development of infrastructure. It's crazy in this day and age that the entire system has not been rebuilt. They've been at it for 30 years with little to show. I rode the 7 train in the 1990's and it is no better today. Where did the money go? I suspect it went to salaries and pension benefits. We need a complete overhaul of the salary and pensions for civil employees. In the private sector there are almost no pensions left (except for those who joined 25-30 years ago). Why are there pensions in the public sector? Get a 401K and join the rest of us miserables. Pat
2
Pat wrote: "We need a complete overhaul of the salary and pensions for civil employees. In the private sector there are almost no pensions left (except for those who joined 25-30 years ago). Why are there pensions in the public sector?"
You think taking it out of the hide of retired workers is a good idea? We should be asking, WHY are almost no pensions left? Why are people who worked for years and years facing retirement crisis? Making other people miserable because our pensions have vanished is not a solution. We need to look hard at the priorities of our whole society. Lets start with these endless wars and the money shoveled to "defense" contracters.
You think taking it out of the hide of retired workers is a good idea? We should be asking, WHY are almost no pensions left? Why are people who worked for years and years facing retirement crisis? Making other people miserable because our pensions have vanished is not a solution. We need to look hard at the priorities of our whole society. Lets start with these endless wars and the money shoveled to "defense" contracters.
I love, love, love riding the subway. (Hey. We don't have one here in NC.) It is like getting in a time machine with some of the most interesting people in the world. It's a wonder of the modern world. But, yes. Y'all do need to love up on it a bit.
3
The lead picture for this article is both terrifying and hilarious. Mostly the former.
Looks like someone needs an audit! What % of our tax dollars and ride payments go to salaries and what goes to capital improvements?
Can the Mayor or the Governor make some political hay out of this? Seize the day, dudes.
Looks like someone needs an audit! What % of our tax dollars and ride payments go to salaries and what goes to capital improvements?
Can the Mayor or the Governor make some political hay out of this? Seize the day, dudes.
Public safety and infrastructure may not be glamorous as hot-button issues like border walls, but they touch upon our lives in a fundamental, everyday way. How transit authority workers manage to keep a moribund system functioning with as few problems as they do is a testament to their professionalism (or luck..,). Is it going to take a catastrophic failure to change attitudes and demand a rapid overhaul?
The only thing we lack is motivation.
The only thing we lack is motivation.
2
6 million rides per weekday is 3 million round trips about 1 round trip for every 100 people in the country. Yet, the MTA, receives far less than 1% of the country's budget on transportation. It is better transportation than electric cars because there is no traffic congestion and it is much greener *per passenger* than electric cars which frequently are charged from electric power derived from carbon-based greenhouse gas fuels such as coal and gas.
Yet, Gov. Cuomo seems to have found $10 billion for LaGuardia and the Feds and States managed to have rebuilt 3 new bridges.
Yet, Gov. Cuomo seems to have found $10 billion for LaGuardia and the Feds and States managed to have rebuilt 3 new bridges.
So lets do what we need to do: back a Brinks truck up, hire the number 2 guy from London, and fix the problem. And lets hire the guy from London ASAP, before we completely stop granting visas to foreigners. JFK challenged us to put a man on the moon within a decade, can't Cuomo challenge the MTA to put a person from Smith & 9th street to Bryant Park in less than 30 minutes?
The problems are all UNION problems caused by the rampent stupidity and carelessness of UNION workers.
3
If you have a leaky roof, you don't spend money on building an annex to your home first. Upgrade the signals before spending billions on subway extensions and have the City contribute more funding to the subways instead of wasting it on a light rail system.
4
So what have they been doing with the fare income all these years?
4
The root of the problem here is that "nothing can ever be done on schedule and budget in New York City," particularly underground. Everything costs about 3 times as much in NYC as it does in other major, crowded cities in the world: London, Tokyo, Paris etc.
A second problem that the city isn't facing is that the subway network was built to do one thing: move commuters in and out of Manhattan. That just cannot continue to be the only transit there is. The daytime density of Manhattan cannot keep increasing, by moving people in from farther and farther away ... taking ever longer to do so. NYC is already becoming decentralized -- Brooklyn is starting to look like Manhattan and Queens will be next. But there's no transit for anything but Manhattan.
A second problem that the city isn't facing is that the subway network was built to do one thing: move commuters in and out of Manhattan. That just cannot continue to be the only transit there is. The daytime density of Manhattan cannot keep increasing, by moving people in from farther and farther away ... taking ever longer to do so. NYC is already becoming decentralized -- Brooklyn is starting to look like Manhattan and Queens will be next. But there's no transit for anything but Manhattan.
1
There is no way to replace aging infrastructure of any kind in a busy metropolitan area without creating disruption. That's true whether we're talking about subway or train tracks, roadways, bridges, or airports. The reality, though, is that it has to be done. As a nation, we have been living off of infrastructure investments made decades ago, adding a bit here, doing some patchwork there, and hoping for the best. Any new projects undertaken routinely run well over schedule and beyond budget.
It is both sad and frustrating that we, as a nation, seem to lack the will and the competence to adequately fund and manage big public works projects. Private industry is far more reliant on public infrastructure than we like to admit. Our economy as a whole will be constrained if we can't move people and goods more reliably and efficiently. Other countries are passing us by in the area of infrastructure. We will eventually pay the price for this neglect.
It is both sad and frustrating that we, as a nation, seem to lack the will and the competence to adequately fund and manage big public works projects. Private industry is far more reliant on public infrastructure than we like to admit. Our economy as a whole will be constrained if we can't move people and goods more reliably and efficiently. Other countries are passing us by in the area of infrastructure. We will eventually pay the price for this neglect.
7
We are paying the price for this neglect right now. We have to look at our national priorities seriously. We can start by looking at the obscene amount we spend on war and what is by far the world's largest military establishment. If we stop fighting unnecessary wars, much else will become possible.
3
What kind of Fiduciary responsibility do elected officials have with maintaining current government assets?
I would think there is some responsibility, funding pension plans for workers comes to mind and keeping roads and trains owned by the government entity safe.
Why have voters allowed elected officials to get away with these lapses?
Incredible......I mean Trillions will have to be spent to fix things that prior elected officials ignored or took advantage of by not funding in past years
I would think there is some responsibility, funding pension plans for workers comes to mind and keeping roads and trains owned by the government entity safe.
Why have voters allowed elected officials to get away with these lapses?
Incredible......I mean Trillions will have to be spent to fix things that prior elected officials ignored or took advantage of by not funding in past years
This is typical of our American culture; build something nice but be too cheap to do any regular maintenance or upgrades. It's like we have attention deficit as a country.
Anything with rails is old-fashioned and not very sexy. It doesn't have to be that way.
Anything with rails is old-fashioned and not very sexy. It doesn't have to be that way.
1
As I this, I am in a rush hour A train with no PA announcement of stations. Nothing.
As soon as the photographer left, they put the Mets game on those two TVs...
3
Thomas Prendergast should not be saying, "We have to be able to manage it better" as he does in another NYTimes article (Jan 24, 2017). HE should have been managing it better.
I'd ordinarily be sympathetic to the complex challenges of upgrading old infrastructure. But not for the MTA. I spoke with a young, capable, tech-smart acquaintance who was working for the MTA a few years ago. The stories I heard about a management team unfamiliar with current technology - taking RFPs from contractors offering 10x a reasonable project cost (to hundreds of millions of dollars) for laughably outdated solutions - defied belief. The MTA doesn't need decades and billions of additional dollars to upgrade signal programs. It needs 10 years to tear down and rebuild its own organization.
I'd ordinarily be sympathetic to the complex challenges of upgrading old infrastructure. But not for the MTA. I spoke with a young, capable, tech-smart acquaintance who was working for the MTA a few years ago. The stories I heard about a management team unfamiliar with current technology - taking RFPs from contractors offering 10x a reasonable project cost (to hundreds of millions of dollars) for laughably outdated solutions - defied belief. The MTA doesn't need decades and billions of additional dollars to upgrade signal programs. It needs 10 years to tear down and rebuild its own organization.
9
Predergast isn't allowed to manage it better. It's a patronage machine that reluctantly produces transit, not a business focused on profitability and customer service.
2
The idea of a project to install "modern" equipment to replace equipment that is outdated, in which the modern equipment was modern and current at the start of the project, which in this case was 2005, and to continue that project using the same equipment till at least 2045 is beyond ridiculous.
And this is because by the time 2045 comes around modern and current switches and signals on trains will be such that the trains can operate on their own without a motorman.
So if the NY subway will still be installing equipment that dated to 2005 in the year 2045 it would be the laughing stock of the world.
And this is because by the time 2045 comes around modern and current switches and signals on trains will be such that the trains can operate on their own without a motorman.
So if the NY subway will still be installing equipment that dated to 2005 in the year 2045 it would be the laughing stock of the world.
2
While we're complaining (and I do my share) about delays and the slow pace of improvements, let's take a moment to admire a signal system that has worked as well as it has for *thirty years* longer than its intended life. Surely, block signals are not as good as computerized control of every train, but keeping at least two red signals between trains has done a good job of preventing collisions, which would surely have involved fatalities. And look at the photos of the old equipment: it was the best available at the time, and it is a prime example of robust technology!
103
Analog technology is perfectly serviceable for low-tech applications like running a subway, and it's simple and durable. Is installing underground microchips really a big factor in service quality?
2
When my wife and I were in London, we made extensive use of the Tube. While I’m sure they have their own issues, in our experience it was clean and ran regularly. I’m often reminded of one such trip when we were standing next to an information phone while waiting for a train. Another rider walked up to the phone to make a call, I remember elbowing my wife and smirking as if to say, “Is this guy kidding me? No way that thing works.” Sure enough someone on the other line picked up, he reported that an escalator was out of order and went on with his day. Good luck getting that kind of service in NYC.
9
There's a huge difference between the London Underground and the NYC Subway system. Nearly the entire Underground closes overnight for cleaning and maintenance. Can you imagine that happening in NYC, the city that never sleeps?
Its great to see a story about the shocking underfunding of NYC transportation instead of more hyperventilating about a tweet of the President's. Hold the Governor and the state legislators feet to the fire about NYC transportation, New York Times!
8
I started doing the morning-evening commute to work in the mid 70's. One thing I definitely remember is that the "trains are moving slow due to a sick passenger on the train in front of us" didn't start until the 80's and always in the morning, seems like it was there way of saying the trains are just slow this morning. Which brings up another question, why is it the morning rush that's hit with the majority of slow downs, it does happen in the evening rush but ninety percent more so in the morning. The trains run 24/7, so what is it about the morning that just doesn't work out for the NYC Transit?
I am from one of the original 13 states, of which only 8 did not incur damage during the Civil War of the 1860's. That was the time when the Victoria Line was built in London, Great Britain according to the article.
To the tribute to the US builders of when the NYC subway was built, the walls at 34th Street look much better than they do in the London picture in the article.
Of the 8 States of the original 13 state in the USA, how many can boast a powering of the lines by modern day electric power? What the NYC subway system really needs is a wind farm off the Atlantic Coast for climate control. Endless supply of power without the need for destroying the environment.
To the tribute to the US builders of when the NYC subway was built, the walls at 34th Street look much better than they do in the London picture in the article.
Of the 8 States of the original 13 state in the USA, how many can boast a powering of the lines by modern day electric power? What the NYC subway system really needs is a wind farm off the Atlantic Coast for climate control. Endless supply of power without the need for destroying the environment.
No money for US infrastructure but the President Donald Trump and the Republican Party has more money, taxpayer money, for the US Military?
2
Could you do a segment on how signal callers work?
1
The main problem with the current signal system in the subway, is that much of the equipment is decades beyond its life span, and so it is prone to breaking down, which results in delays.
However the solution the MTA is using to fix this problem is not to simply replace the equipment so that it doesn't break down. The MTA plans to completely change the whole signaling system in the subways. This despite the fact that putting in new signaling requires major long term shutdowns of train lines, it also requires new train cars and is way more expensive than simply replacing the old equipment.
In addition when dealing with a problem such as delays, a plan to have it fixed by 2045 at the earliest, which means the problem will be going on for at least another 28 years, is no plan at all.
Therefore a question that must be addressed is what exactly will be gained by going this route of installing this new signaling system in the subway.
The sole benefit of a modern signaling system is that trains can run closer to each other. A line on the London Tube with its new signal system can run 36 trains an hour, as opposed to the NY subway which can run 29 trains an hour on a single line. However even with the current system the only line that runs that many trains is the Lexington Ave line during rush hour. No other line runs that many trains an hour.
And since the sole benefit of this decades long project will be an extra 7 trains an hour on a single line, it serves no purpose at all.
However the solution the MTA is using to fix this problem is not to simply replace the equipment so that it doesn't break down. The MTA plans to completely change the whole signaling system in the subways. This despite the fact that putting in new signaling requires major long term shutdowns of train lines, it also requires new train cars and is way more expensive than simply replacing the old equipment.
In addition when dealing with a problem such as delays, a plan to have it fixed by 2045 at the earliest, which means the problem will be going on for at least another 28 years, is no plan at all.
Therefore a question that must be addressed is what exactly will be gained by going this route of installing this new signaling system in the subway.
The sole benefit of a modern signaling system is that trains can run closer to each other. A line on the London Tube with its new signal system can run 36 trains an hour, as opposed to the NY subway which can run 29 trains an hour on a single line. However even with the current system the only line that runs that many trains is the Lexington Ave line during rush hour. No other line runs that many trains an hour.
And since the sole benefit of this decades long project will be an extra 7 trains an hour on a single line, it serves no purpose at all.
56
Au contraire! Your premise that there is only a single benefit from a new and improved signaling system is simply, flat-out W-R-O-N-G! The new signaling system will have many benefits.
The first benefit will be vastly improved reliability, as the new equipment will be digital and electronic. Present, pre-WWII equipment is electro-mechanical, and though rugged, prone to wear, tear, and eventual breakdown. As it ages, mean time between failures (MTBF) decreases, maintenance and delays increase. Operational headways (times between trains) must be increased to compensate for declining reliability, resulting in fewer trains per hour, lower passenger capacity of the existing plant.
A second benefit of the new signaling system is reduced maintenance, lowering maintenance costs, and reducing pressure on fares.
A third, most important benefit, will be improved safety. Dispatchers will have better knowledge of the location and status of all trains. The automated system even allows dispatcher override of individual train control, a vast improvement over your grandfather's signaling system.
And finally, the new system, with its improved reliability and functionality, will allow for greater operational density -- more trains per hour, fewer minutes between trains, less waiting on platforms, less crowding and more passengers carried per hour.
In short, the new signals will mean better and safer service. Who can be opposed to that?
The first benefit will be vastly improved reliability, as the new equipment will be digital and electronic. Present, pre-WWII equipment is electro-mechanical, and though rugged, prone to wear, tear, and eventual breakdown. As it ages, mean time between failures (MTBF) decreases, maintenance and delays increase. Operational headways (times between trains) must be increased to compensate for declining reliability, resulting in fewer trains per hour, lower passenger capacity of the existing plant.
A second benefit of the new signaling system is reduced maintenance, lowering maintenance costs, and reducing pressure on fares.
A third, most important benefit, will be improved safety. Dispatchers will have better knowledge of the location and status of all trains. The automated system even allows dispatcher override of individual train control, a vast improvement over your grandfather's signaling system.
And finally, the new system, with its improved reliability and functionality, will allow for greater operational density -- more trains per hour, fewer minutes between trains, less waiting on platforms, less crowding and more passengers carried per hour.
In short, the new signals will mean better and safer service. Who can be opposed to that?
4
Seven additional trains per hour (36 vs 27) represents a 20% increase in capacity. Not enough but "serves no purpose at all"? I disagree.
5
You fail to realize they will also be safer by allowing remote control of trains (the union sq speeding incident) and will cause less delays. Read again. Two big sources of delays are signals and overcrowding, the first of which feeds into and exacerbates the second.
It's not a waste.
It's not a waste.
3
Even as a kid in the late '60s I knew the NYC subway system was antiquated because our Canadian friends told us about their system, where the wheels were made of rubber. That was 50 years ago!
16
Chicago public transport - dreadful. Chicago to Fort Wayne, no train service for passengers.
Several years ago - actually, probabl at least 20 - there wasa story about Japanese engineers visiting whatever serves as Subway CentCom and getting c about the archaic system. NYC political leaders and their highly paid appointees at MTA are responsible - but are never held responsible - for the lack or forward thinking, planning, updating and maintenance. It seems as if the only people who have to sacrifice anything are the riders.
10
@Cheryl did you not read the article carefully? New York CITY political leaders do not manager the MTA, and so cannot be responsible. That power and responsibility lies with New York State in Albany, which has never provided a stable source of funding for the MTA.
1
Governor Cuomo, not Mayor di Blasio, is in charge of the MTA, a State Agency, which includes New York City Transit.
@ JEG and Larry Greenfield - you're correct.
Seems this discussion is incomplete without autonomous trains. Self-driving cars and trucks seem all the media rage, why not trains? While upgrading the system, upgrade the whole thing, or, even if there's too much pressure from Labor, at least make it possible. Start with the Times Square Shuttle. Why are there still human operators? How is that line fundamentally different from, say, the JFK AirTrain, except for Labor pressure? Labor is the single largest MTA expense...and cause of accidents.
24
Well, yes. But without budget for a complete overhaul of the control systems, labor remains critical to the operation. But then, that's sort of the meat of the article.
1
The L train *does* have automatic operation (funny that wan't mentioned as a major reason to implement a "communication-based" system). Normally, the "train operator" just makes sure the AO is working properly.
1
Let's get the signals into the 21st Century before we worry about the cars.
1
I would be thrilled with some simple maintenance such as cleaning. The West Fourth Station is an abomination of filth. Leaving this to individuals performing community service is not a solution. This is an embarrassment before the world.
137
It's funny you say that, I was in the west fourth street station yesterday (which was filthy) and saw a cleaner using a small, ragged looking broom to clean <50% of the loose debris. There is a layer of scuz on every station that only needs water, soap, and some effort to remove. It's an embarrassment.
2
It is always easier to want to buy new furniture than it is to insulate your home. Invisible improvements aren't satisfying.
New subway station art or fantastic new subway stations make people happier than upgrading the infrastructure. At least they are happier until the old 30's infrastructure fails and then they start complaining. We've been distracted too long about cosmetic things and need to improve the unseen fundamentals. It is going to cost big but hopefully the improved safety and train running times will be enough to make people happy. Haha.
New subway station art or fantastic new subway stations make people happier than upgrading the infrastructure. At least they are happier until the old 30's infrastructure fails and then they start complaining. We've been distracted too long about cosmetic things and need to improve the unseen fundamentals. It is going to cost big but hopefully the improved safety and train running times will be enough to make people happy. Haha.
63
Look at all the flashing red and green lights… You are in a candy store (at least I am)
6
I worked for the MTA in the 80's if I worked more then 4 hours a day it was a bad day. They have had Capital Improvement Programs for decades, the system is so poorly managed it is a wonder it works at all. They have squandered billions. The most efficient person I met was the lady who took my ID/Pass when I resigned, it took 30 minutes. There was no exit interview, but I told her if anyone asks I was grateful for the job. She replied, "No one will ask."
205
Sorry, but the practices of the MTA over 30 years ago is about as irrelevant as if you wanted to discuss the state of freeways in relation to the subway system.
Your absence points directly to improvements the Authority has made in its hiring practices (which, again, are irrelevant to the question of installing a new signal system to improve system efficiency).
Your absence points directly to improvements the Authority has made in its hiring practices (which, again, are irrelevant to the question of installing a new signal system to improve system efficiency).
3
Not only London, but Paris, every 2 minutes, all auto driven. The so called driver sits up front only as a monitor. Some of their trains run on ribber tiers, for decades. Quiet, too. The Barcelona tubes, not only say the minute(s) for arrival, but the seconds as well. Our mapping systems are also difficult, and hard to read, especially for our older riders.This makes no sense. The only positive the subways have are the drawings and paintings graphically in the trains itself. My six year old grandson so looking at the warnings on the door said to me: "Grandfather: 'Do Not lean on Door,' isn't right is it?" He sensed that it should say doors, and still he felt something wrong. While he is not terribly aware of prepositions he did sense that they were missing. Anyway, not that I am a grammarian: "We are being held momentarily by...," Is wrong and annoying.
1
Do it. In the summertime. I'll take the bus for a coupla weeks.
11
Let's let President Trump "build it, build it fabulously, it will be tremendous, and get N.J. residents to pay for it...once Gov. Christie is out of office!
72
are you kidding? he will build it & you will pay for it! no thanks.
Thanks for reminding me-- it's Monday. What "signal problems," "earlier incidents," and "traffic ahead" situations will we encounter on our morning commute? Mondays are usually the worst these days. Any ideas why?
6
The problem arises from not differentiating between a 'cost' and an 'investment.'
41
I'm stuck (but not surprised) but the picture of a worker installing the upgraded equipment as another watches in the background with his hand in his pockets. Much like our creaky, groaning T service in Boston, I wonder what percentage of these delays are pure logistics, and what percentage is based on a workforce that has virtually no accountability.
87
Nice pick up! He could be waiting for a train to pass but there are other possibilities...Probably the guy working is a nobody but the guy watching knows a guy...No wonder it costs so much and takes so long.
8
If you look closely there is a white hard hat working on the adjacent track. Working on signals, with your head down, and hearing protection in place, leaves the workers vulnerable from on coming trains, also pictured. There is always a look out stationed when any track work is performed and service is still running.
7
maybe a last ditch safety issue... watching for any approaching trains. I'd like someone to have my back in that work environment as well!
2
The MTA is one of those NY State agencies that has lots of power, money and little oversight. We've funded lots of things for the MTA and the money is wasted on union salaries and benefits, and middle managers making $200,000 a year with rich benefits, and a history of hiring politically connected people and rewarding politicians' friends with rich consulting contracts.
In the meantime, it's going to be 7 YEARS before they start repairs on the L-train tunnel, and still tell us that they are "upgrading" signals to have more trains on the tracks.
We need to pressure our Community Boards, our Council members, our Mayor, our Congressmen and Senators to AUDIT and reform the MTA. No more excuses from them on why they can't afford to do their JOB with the BILLIONS they control and collect from all travelers.
No more excuses from the politicians. Not everyone can use bikes, and not everyone can afford Uber, taxis or driving. We need real investment in PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, primarily subways.
In the meantime, it's going to be 7 YEARS before they start repairs on the L-train tunnel, and still tell us that they are "upgrading" signals to have more trains on the tracks.
We need to pressure our Community Boards, our Council members, our Mayor, our Congressmen and Senators to AUDIT and reform the MTA. No more excuses from them on why they can't afford to do their JOB with the BILLIONS they control and collect from all travelers.
No more excuses from the politicians. Not everyone can use bikes, and not everyone can afford Uber, taxis or driving. We need real investment in PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, primarily subways.
185
Clarification here - the 7 years on the starting repairs on the L-train tunnel is based on when the damage occurred to when they start repairs - not 7 years from now.
1
the Canarsie tubes (L train tunnels) repairs will begin in two years and take 15 months.
1
Agree 100%. But while auditing is a good idea, that information is already publicly available.
77% of the NYC MTA budget goes to various payroll categories. 23% goes to "keeping the system running." You can't run a business this way. (And this is how much of NYC is run, thanks to public union pensions.)
77% of the NYC MTA budget goes to various payroll categories. 23% goes to "keeping the system running." You can't run a business this way. (And this is how much of NYC is run, thanks to public union pensions.)
6
That photo of the worker installing switch equipment is a good illustration of the inefficiency of the system: one worker working, one worker leaning against a post watching.
100
Mr. Green, an employee stands watch because that is a safety requirement.
7
...and another four idling in the background!
3
The other guy is called a "Supervisor".
1