We paid plenty for our daughter's years at Purchase. So now we have to pay (via our taxes) for those who can't afford it? Baloney!
It's not "free", just Andy Cuomo robbing Peter to educate Paul, and buy all those 'feel-good' votes that keep him in office.
If you can't afford college, take out a loan, or get a job like our parents and grandparents did. Your self-esteem may improve from earning your tuition instead of stealing it. College is NOT for everyone.
It's not "free", just Andy Cuomo robbing Peter to educate Paul, and buy all those 'feel-good' votes that keep him in office.
If you can't afford college, take out a loan, or get a job like our parents and grandparents did. Your self-esteem may improve from earning your tuition instead of stealing it. College is NOT for everyone.
6
Sour grapes Bob. We need more of this, not less. Think about the future of our country.
5
For the critics who say that it does little for the poorest students, let me say this. It is middle class people who pour money into the state coffers. It is about time they get something, anything for all of the tax dollars they pay. Poor people are constantly getting from the government, hence the enormous amount of tax the rest of us have to pay. There are plenty of programs out there to help the poor, but this is truly the only thing the state of NY does for the middle class, and it is about time.
7
Bravo Governor Cuomo
4
Here in Georgia, state colleges and universities have been free since 1993 to students who maintain a 3.0 GPA. It rewards scholarship with free tuition.
Also, in the Peach State, people who are 62 years and older can attend GA state college and universities for free.
It's a peach of a deal!
Old Jimma from the Old Country
Also, in the Peach State, people who are 62 years and older can attend GA state college and universities for free.
It's a peach of a deal!
Old Jimma from the Old Country
5
Why doesn't it cover p/t students who need to work? Which students need it more and are working harder than any others?
3
Excelsior makes me even more proud to be a New Yorker. Wider access to education (and less debt for young people) is better for everyone. Room and board and expensive textbooks will still be a roadblock and must be addressed. But Excelsior is an important step forward.
7
A lighting designer, if employed would need to work for 10 years to pay back just their tuition in post tax dollars at Adelphi, a 3rd tier school. Assuming the student did not fail 3rd grade math why in the world would they not go to Purchase.
4
Kids, if you want to get the most out of this free tuition plan, pick a school you can commute to, because room and board alone will generally run $10-15k per year. And be sure to budget of the super-expensive books you'll need.
3
It seems like the author and many of the parents have not considered the real economics of this program for an individual heading to college. What should be considered is the total cost of actually attending the college, which includes the tuition, living, and fees, plus the incidentals. The Excelsior program is offering about $25,000 over 4 years for the price of staying in-state. So consider the costs discussed in the article. The private school costs about $45,000 in tuition and it seems about $15,000 in room, board, and fees. That makes the list price around $60,000, about that of most private schools. The list price at the public schools is much lower for tuition but about the same for the rest, leading to a total list of about $22,000. So look at the costs, subtract whatever financial aid is offered, remember that living at home still means you have to eat and get to campus, and ask yourself some questions:
1. Is any difference worth the extra cost?
2. Can you afford the extra cost?
3. Does it mean loans? If yes, see #1.
4. New question this year - Is it worth committing to stay in NY after graduation?
What I see in the article is an out-of-pocket cost of something a little over $30,000 for a private school with financial aid and living at home versus $15,000 for living on campus at the state school after the Excelsior. And multiply by 4 to cover all college years. So a difference of $60,000 in life cycle costs and a commitment to work in NY for 4 years.
1. Is any difference worth the extra cost?
2. Can you afford the extra cost?
3. Does it mean loans? If yes, see #1.
4. New question this year - Is it worth committing to stay in NY after graduation?
What I see in the article is an out-of-pocket cost of something a little over $30,000 for a private school with financial aid and living at home versus $15,000 for living on campus at the state school after the Excelsior. And multiply by 4 to cover all college years. So a difference of $60,000 in life cycle costs and a commitment to work in NY for 4 years.
2
This will become a net positive. Many European universities such as the Free University of Brussels have been free for many decades, and I don't see Belgium collapsing any time soon. Besides, New York's state system has many fine regional state colleges such as New Paltz and Geneseo, not to mention prestigious research universities such as Binghamton and Albany. Had I been a native of NY State, I would have been thrilled, and my living expenses would have been covered by Pell grants and the GI Bill. Working somewhere in NY State afterwards for four years? Who can complain? The mean-spirited, supply-side voodoo economics commenters here are clueless.
7
Notice, though, that the free European Universities are all a product of high stakes testing. Either you're in the top third of your high school class, or you don't get in, and are only welcome in trade schools.
4
It's true--the European university system is elitist
1
It's elitist to give free education to the most qualified?
I attended university in BC in the early 1970s. The government paid a portion of the next year's tuition for the top 15% of previous year. Tuition wasn't as astronomical as now but it helped my parents. Plus, I lived at home.
Then a left-wing provincial govt was elected (shortly I graduated). They did some good things (single payer medical care), but for some strange reason, helping top students with tuition violated their principles. They dropped that aid system and of course it was never replaced.
I attended university in BC in the early 1970s. The government paid a portion of the next year's tuition for the top 15% of previous year. Tuition wasn't as astronomical as now but it helped my parents. Plus, I lived at home.
Then a left-wing provincial govt was elected (shortly I graduated). They did some good things (single payer medical care), but for some strange reason, helping top students with tuition violated their principles. They dropped that aid system and of course it was never replaced.
3
Some of the comments here are disturbing. I also detect shill comments from advocates for overpriced , under performing , private colleges as well as those for profit colleges that should have been shut down a long ago. This is a great idea that is now coming to fruition. The opportunity to attend and graduate from a good college and leave with a degree and little or no debt. These students will go out and pick jobs based less on money and more on the idea of how can I make the country a better place. They can purchase a home,a vehicle,start a small business,volunteer in their communities. The decisions these graduates make will not be informed by the immediate and panicked need to pay the vig on a large and almost insurmountable debt. But rather the desire to somehow reimburse a nation that provided them with such a grand opportunity. This is an investment that will pay dividends to this country for many generations to come.
11
I was very engaged and involved during the 2011 and 2012 Occupy protests. Education and housing as our collective right truly hit home for me. I borrowed just 15K to finish my BA undergrad which is now more than $60K because the minimum payments are so high ($400/month) that I have continually had to defer paying. Deferring payment is enjoyed by Mohela (my lender) as they tack on thousands in interest. They will not allow you to pay a manageable amount, the absolute minimum Is $400. Andrew Ross -- author and NYU professor -- spoke to Occupy at length about the debt culture and how student loans, mortgages, et al are effective tools for political oppression. Mired in debt - working around the clock to try to pay off an ever-increasing debt can only paralyze debtors and marginalize them in terms of any real political engagement or participation. It was pointed out, I think in the easiest and most effective terms -- that the original intent of free Kindergarten through High School -- in order to prepare citizens for a productive life in our society needs to be upgraded. A high school education is no longer enough to compete in the current job market. All colleges and universities should be free - period, end of story. And what breaks will you be giving to people like myself who want to get a graduate degree because the BA has been useless? @johannaclear
6
Why should taxpayers subsidize expensive private colleges? A public university is just fine, especially in a state with dozens of them (though I think the Excelsior scholarship has much room for improvement if it is going to serve the people who need it most). If you want to go to a school that costs upwards of $60,000 a year, get scholarships, get loans (and accept the consequences), or find some other way to pay for it yourself.
Besides, if we're paying for private colleges, what's to stop them from raising prices even higher?
Besides, if we're paying for private colleges, what's to stop them from raising prices even higher?
2
My state has had a free college scholarship program for years. Students must have graduated from a public high school in New Mexico and have a GPA that indicates they have a pulse.
The result? A four year graduation rate of 17% and a six year graduation rate well under 50%. And the chief beneficiaries are White students from upper middle class backgrounds.
And the public colleges and universities have responded by raising tuition at an ever-increasing pace -- hey, the students and their parents aren't paying for it, right?
And, as in New York, the scholarship doesn't cover fees and books, so the price of admission is still fairly steep for a student of limited means.
The needle didn't move on dropout rates, either. Ill-prepared students or those without resources just wasted otherwise productive years and ended up with no degree. And all that tuition money that could have been used for roads and bridges is gone down the tubes.
As a final irony, the fund that pays these scholarships is running short, so the free scholarships may not cover the full cost of tuition in the future.
The result? A four year graduation rate of 17% and a six year graduation rate well under 50%. And the chief beneficiaries are White students from upper middle class backgrounds.
And the public colleges and universities have responded by raising tuition at an ever-increasing pace -- hey, the students and their parents aren't paying for it, right?
And, as in New York, the scholarship doesn't cover fees and books, so the price of admission is still fairly steep for a student of limited means.
The needle didn't move on dropout rates, either. Ill-prepared students or those without resources just wasted otherwise productive years and ended up with no degree. And all that tuition money that could have been used for roads and bridges is gone down the tubes.
As a final irony, the fund that pays these scholarships is running short, so the free scholarships may not cover the full cost of tuition in the future.
4
Ok, rereading this article from Lisa and it's just not making sense. My problem with the NY Times in general is that the writing doesn't make sense. Case in point: in writing that "Excelsior Scholarship, which this year will offer free tuition at the state's public colleges and universities for in-state students from households earning up to $100,000. At Purchase, a four-year liberal arts college, and other SUNY schools, it is worth close to $6,500."
That's it, so is the writer saying a student will not have to pay $6500 per year? $6500 total for 4 years? And if so, does this mean that Purchase was only $6500.00? A year? For 4 years? Is that possible, I mean even Rutgers, a state school is around $26,000.00 a year. OK I just don't need to try this hard to understand what a writer is saying. About to switch to the Washington Post. I know, I know, the writing has gone downhill because the NY Times isn't paying what they used to, so now a days, who exactly is going into journalism. But still, jeez. Get an EDITOR!!!
That's it, so is the writer saying a student will not have to pay $6500 per year? $6500 total for 4 years? And if so, does this mean that Purchase was only $6500.00? A year? For 4 years? Is that possible, I mean even Rutgers, a state school is around $26,000.00 a year. OK I just don't need to try this hard to understand what a writer is saying. About to switch to the Washington Post. I know, I know, the writing has gone downhill because the NY Times isn't paying what they used to, so now a days, who exactly is going into journalism. But still, jeez. Get an EDITOR!!!
13
SUNY tuition is around $7000 a year, so a four year degree is cheaper than a new car and a much better investment.
We are Ohioans whose daughter will be attending a private college in New York this fall, where the tuition and room and board costs will be higher than at Cornell, which she turned down to go here. Out of the 6 schools she applied to, 3 were in New York. We have been saving since before she was born, living well below our means, so that she could attend any college she wished and that accepted her and graduate without debt, so cost did not factor in her choice. So the state shouldn't worry about the enrollment at the private colleges and universities - there are enough attractions to attending there, and there are a lot of people like us who were able make sacrifices to help our kids, to keep them afloat. In fact, the college she will be attending had its most applicants ever.
Where the state should put its money is helping the kids who have the smarts and the drive, but no means to afford the living costs away from home. Such a subsidy could mean the difference between attending the best college for them or being stuck in a local program that doesn't quite serve their needs as well.
Where the state should put its money is helping the kids who have the smarts and the drive, but no means to afford the living costs away from home. Such a subsidy could mean the difference between attending the best college for them or being stuck in a local program that doesn't quite serve their needs as well.
3
you are being too much of a martyr! Why on God's earth should you have scrimped and saved since before your kids were born. Read the Wall Street Journal's articles about kids and parents defaulting on student loans (similar to the defaults in the real estate mortgage crisis of 2009.) Banks and colleges are in cahoots about letting these kids spend the rest of their lives either stuck paying back loans, or defaulting and never again having decent credit. Cornell and the other Ivies are completely playing the game. Cornell told our son (and I'm sure tens of thousands of other parents over the years) that they will only match financial aid from the other Ivies. How elitist is that. It keeps these schools in their little bubble all in collaboration with the other Ivies.
I get that you are able to pay for college, but at what cost? we are living in a country where the middle class, or what's left of it, is being squeezed from all sides. I applaud your stiff upper lip, but truly, I bet you've woken up at many a 4 AM morning and worried how you can pull it off.
I get that you are able to pay for college, but at what cost? we are living in a country where the middle class, or what's left of it, is being squeezed from all sides. I applaud your stiff upper lip, but truly, I bet you've woken up at many a 4 AM morning and worried how you can pull it off.
3
This is a bold policy experiment to invest in the education of in-state students who come from low-income households (up to $100,000). If the scholarship program is modestly effective in retaining promising young graduates as they work and contribute taxes to New York state, it may soon become a model for other states to follow (budget permitting).
3
Since when is $100K/year considered low income? It's ~66% > than the median HH income in the state of New York.
5
If you live in NYC, you will barely qualify for a mortgage on a starter house at that income.
Whenever tax payers dollars are used to subsidize anything it's almost certain that costs go up. Sort of like a signal to milk the cow for all you can get.
10
Please stop misleading kids. This is not "free tuition" or a "scholarship". This is a loan that that won't be collected if you clear all of the hurdles. However, one bad semester, one illness or pregnancy, and bad grades will make you repay it.
Now, that's a good thing (as long as grade inflation doesn't further accelerate) that the program encourages scholarship, though there's a risk of discouraging risk taking. Another good thing about this program is that it actually supports adult learners, instead of merely being a 5 continuation of welfare. However, to characterize this as "free tuition"
Now, that's a good thing (as long as grade inflation doesn't further accelerate) that the program encourages scholarship, though there's a risk of discouraging risk taking. Another good thing about this program is that it actually supports adult learners, instead of merely being a 5 continuation of welfare. However, to characterize this as "free tuition"
3
When I graduated from Thomas Jefferson H.S. in 1950 I was fortunate (and smart enough to get a scholarship from NYU. Most of my friends attended then-tuition free city colleges (primarily Brooklyn College and CCNY). Four years later, their Bachelor's Degrees were no less valuable than mine and many of us went on to have successful professional careers. All of us were and felt blessed to have the opportunity to get a valuable and valued education - it is criminal to deny today's young people this same chance.
16
This is a good plan to kill second-tier liberal arts colleges not only in NY but in the region. This is great, the same people who run departments of motor vehicles will be taking over the college education function.
5
One of the problems with financial aid packages has been that they were very generous the first year and then students and families found grants became loans in subsequent years. Knowing that NYS will cover the tuition segment, has got to be reassuring to many families.
9
Having a scholarship to a state college will help to further ghettoize American higher education. It will shunt kids from families making less than 100K per yr. to the lesser known or lesser branded schools, forwarding the virtual caste system of higher education we have now (if you favor this caste system, it is most likely because you benefitted from it or hope that your children will). At present, we have "elite" education (translation: real education) versus non-elite (translation: we don't know if you learned anything important, but we will, perhaps, give you a chance to prove it). This new program, while beneficial in many respects, will help to continue unequal higher educational opportunity in America.
For those who say shut-up, take your scholarship and go to a state school, I say this: wait. You never know when or where the critical aspect of education will take place. I went to a state school that, in some ways, was not very challenging (the challenge was to keep my attention), this enabled me to do considerable study and thinking (!) on my own. Had I gone to a hotsy-totsy school, I would have been buried in course work and, probably, struggled to keep up. As it was, I gained a measure of intellectual freedom by going to a state college than no one would honor by its name alone.
The student must be his or her on guide as to what is needed. It could be there is one professor at one of these elite schools who could make all the difference. You never know.
For those who say shut-up, take your scholarship and go to a state school, I say this: wait. You never know when or where the critical aspect of education will take place. I went to a state school that, in some ways, was not very challenging (the challenge was to keep my attention), this enabled me to do considerable study and thinking (!) on my own. Had I gone to a hotsy-totsy school, I would have been buried in course work and, probably, struggled to keep up. As it was, I gained a measure of intellectual freedom by going to a state college than no one would honor by its name alone.
The student must be his or her on guide as to what is needed. It could be there is one professor at one of these elite schools who could make all the difference. You never know.
7
I agree. While elite private schools essentially supply all the management for many private companies, public college degrees will at least get you in the door to the sweatshop part of them. Caste system is an excellent description for what this really is. Grist for the mill also comes to my mind.
3
Not as unequal as you claim. Find Frank Bruni's columns on whether fancy expensive schools really give such an advantage. They don't. The City University of New York graduated lots of Nobel Prize winners, lots of great authors, any people in every type of profession. In many cases, where you go to graduate school is what really matters. If you can do well in undergraduate school, and you have more chance of doing well if you don't have to worry so much about finances, you can get into a good graduate school with scholarships.
1
@ Dfkinjer
The City University of New York USED to graduate lots of Nobel Prize winners.
Since their open enrollment policy, a huge percentage of their budget goes to remedial classes.
The City University of New York USED to graduate lots of Nobel Prize winners.
Since their open enrollment policy, a huge percentage of their budget goes to remedial classes.
This is an excellent and praiseworthy step for the state of New York to take. Now, worthy working class students will have a leg up to the education they deserve, receiving it at New York's public colleges and universities. Here's hoping other states copy this model, so that students all over the nation have the opportunity now available so often to only the well-to-do.
3
And they won't have to charge high rates for their services just to pay the interest on the usury loans others are scammed with.
One of the reasons doctors say is the cause they charge so much, is to pay back the cost to the education. How true, of course once they pay it back their rates never go down. Our Education should be free, part of the perks for living in the richest country in the world. Then we just pay the upfront costs through tax ,.. but not the "interest" which could be three times or more the original loan...And to think, Bankers and republicans always cry about Regulation.
One of the reasons doctors say is the cause they charge so much, is to pay back the cost to the education. How true, of course once they pay it back their rates never go down. Our Education should be free, part of the perks for living in the richest country in the world. Then we just pay the upfront costs through tax ,.. but not the "interest" which could be three times or more the original loan...And to think, Bankers and republicans always cry about Regulation.
9
We are unable to compete with the countries that provide a low or no cost higher education for their citizens. Half of the doctorate students in our universities come from abroad. Imagine educating our own.
6
And the percentage of international students in competitive Phd programs is substantially higher than 50%
1
But who wants to bet the mark-up on textbooks, student fees, parking, and all other associated costs aside from tuition, just shot through the roof? This is a giveaway to publishers just like ACA was to insurance and pharmaceutical companies.
8
So so the people down the street in a rent controlled apartment making $99,000 a year get cheap housing and free tuition but if I make $101,000 I have to struggle to pay my market rent and put my own kids through school and get zero help with my health care. Awesome, great plan.
24
There always has to be some cutoff, doesn't there?
1
Of the millions of apartments in NYC, there are about 27,000 rent controlled apartments so you're just ranting there.
If you do not have a job that provides adequate health care, earn $101k and are trying to raise a family in a Manhattan apartment, it's your choices that are at fault here, not the system.
If you do not have a job that provides adequate health care, earn $101k and are trying to raise a family in a Manhattan apartment, it's your choices that are at fault here, not the system.
7
no problem. tell your employer to lower wages by $2000.
4
I really dislike the part where kids have to stay in NY for 4 years afterwards. It's hard to predict at 18 where life will take you and then that free tutition converts to loans! Loans you were not expecting to have to pay. And it makes choosing between a private and public hard too. If you end up moving, the private might be a better deal, but it is hard to ell.
2
Then don't avail yourself of the program. It's really that simple. Sorry, but there have been plenty of people that had no money for college that signed up for the military and were expected to serve for a period of time in exchange for the service paying for college.
It's called a trade-off and if you want a degree badly enough and do not have the means to get one, then you can choose to acquire one by going that route. This is similar in that you are expected to work here for a time after graduation. That is the deal. take it or leave it.
Handing money to people to develop skill sets that they run out the door with after graduation day is not something I would want to contribute to.
You can very easily avoid the "surprise" of the tuition becoming loans by fulfilling your part of the agreement when you signed on the dotted line. It's called an obligation: something that few seem to take seriously anymore.
It's called a trade-off and if you want a degree badly enough and do not have the means to get one, then you can choose to acquire one by going that route. This is similar in that you are expected to work here for a time after graduation. That is the deal. take it or leave it.
Handing money to people to develop skill sets that they run out the door with after graduation day is not something I would want to contribute to.
You can very easily avoid the "surprise" of the tuition becoming loans by fulfilling your part of the agreement when you signed on the dotted line. It's called an obligation: something that few seem to take seriously anymore.
14
Try this BNY. Call that "private" and ask them how much of a loan you will have to take out for a four year program. Then compare the "private" loan amount with the hypothetical "public" loan of @25,000. Also, ask yourself what the likelihood is that you would accept a job outside NY State. Then, flip a coin and go to school.
I am one of those kids, who was lucy enough to go to a city college in the 50's ... without them, I would never have continued my schooling, too much money, discrimination, and I would have felt very uncomfortable out of my milieu..
SO, I went to City... not a great student and not a great job...
BUT, I have paid tax, bought a house, raised my children
AND all because I had an education
SO, I went to City... not a great student and not a great job...
BUT, I have paid tax, bought a house, raised my children
AND all because I had an education
17
I had the same experience in California in the mid-sixties. I was not a great student either. I did, however, learn and internalize the value of literacy. My kids have far out-achieved me. The youngest got into Columbia and is doing really well. Her elder brother is a professional who actually draws a deep sense of satisfaction from his work. Both have a large sense of social conscience
and both will do a great deal toward making the world a better place
I am absolutely certain that they are in a better position to contribute to the world around them because the taxpayer in California in the sixties covered the cost of college for a kid with very average talents.
and both will do a great deal toward making the world a better place
I am absolutely certain that they are in a better position to contribute to the world around them because the taxpayer in California in the sixties covered the cost of college for a kid with very average talents.
9
While not perfect, this a great first step in the right direction. This is what we elect our government officials to do. This is excellence in public policy. Now that we have this scholarship it can only be improved by including part-time student and raising the income threshold. We cannot make perfect the enemy of the necessary.
As far as residency requirement are concerned, you are free to leave NY state and convert it into a loan. NY state taxpayers are investing in you and expect something in return for a little while. I would rather live in NY state( which is still a pretty good state to live) than pay debt for 10-20 years.
I already know a few families that will benefit so much from this. Credit is due where credit is due. Thank You Governor Cuomo.
As far as residency requirement are concerned, you are free to leave NY state and convert it into a loan. NY state taxpayers are investing in you and expect something in return for a little while. I would rather live in NY state( which is still a pretty good state to live) than pay debt for 10-20 years.
I already know a few families that will benefit so much from this. Credit is due where credit is due. Thank You Governor Cuomo.
16
Students may leave NYS to attend graduate or professional school and then return. This program precludes those students from keeping their scholarships, which is nonsense.
The headline is not correct. It should say "free for some." Households making over $100,000 need not apply. This is wealth discrimination. Two people in a household making $50,000 a year is not rich. Make it free for everyone.
19
Not all discrimination is bad. The assumption is that someone making above that level can find a way to pay for higher education. The problem, of course, is that 100K in Manhattan is peanuts, while the same income on western New York would be considered a good salary by many people.
4
Like Obamacare this plan does nothing to address the high cost of higher ed. It only shifts the cost burden to us taxpayers.
18
I disagree. This goes farther than Obamacare in that it provides a true public option in the marketplace. Obamacare subsidized existing private market options and merely expanding Medicaid, which is not an alternative product to the private market options. Medicaid is exclusively based on an income tier for those that have no alternative option. The Excelsior Scholarship is a public option that allows households making less than $100,000 to choose between private market options and the public option. Those households are not forced into the public option based on income. Furthermore, the Excelsior Scholarship reduces the price of a substitute good for private schools. Basic microeconomics will show that when the price of a substitute good decreases, then the price of premium good (here, private colleges) will have to go down. The increase in enrollment in the public schools will likely be a lower marginal cost, which means quality will not likely suffer.
4
Yes, because the poor, not tax-dodging corporations and the very rich with great accountants, should shoulder that burden.
1
Wow. A coherent and forward-thinking answer. Competition. It's often a very good thing. : )
1
Like all things good, this one will take time for effective implementation. As an educator in a private, tuition-dependent college, the Excelsior program is a direct threat - however, I see the merits.
This program can potentially lead families to behave strategically in order to game the system. Families can break up on paper, and send all kids to school for free. Or hide income, or engage in a large number of shenanigans to take advantage. At least one kid from my class this semester is pulling out, and leaving to first complete some courses at community college, than enter the SUNY system for free. God bless him.
I encourage all students and families to do all they can - because the pay off is an educated child. And that is good for the country.
Contrast this with the rich who engage in shenanigans dreamed up by accountants, bankers, lobbyists and other scum - and we all suffer. We bail them out without remorse - and that has made them even more arrogant.
The Excelsior program-led strategic behavior produces a socially advantageous good.
Do your best parents and families - I am rooting for you. All kids deserve a fair shot at a good life, even if parents don't have necessary income.
I clearly recall 35 years ago, I chose one program over another because there was no way for my family to pay for the one to which I was admitted. I have no regrets at all, but I do know the reality of low income getting in the way of a college education,
Kalidan
This program can potentially lead families to behave strategically in order to game the system. Families can break up on paper, and send all kids to school for free. Or hide income, or engage in a large number of shenanigans to take advantage. At least one kid from my class this semester is pulling out, and leaving to first complete some courses at community college, than enter the SUNY system for free. God bless him.
I encourage all students and families to do all they can - because the pay off is an educated child. And that is good for the country.
Contrast this with the rich who engage in shenanigans dreamed up by accountants, bankers, lobbyists and other scum - and we all suffer. We bail them out without remorse - and that has made them even more arrogant.
The Excelsior program-led strategic behavior produces a socially advantageous good.
Do your best parents and families - I am rooting for you. All kids deserve a fair shot at a good life, even if parents don't have necessary income.
I clearly recall 35 years ago, I chose one program over another because there was no way for my family to pay for the one to which I was admitted. I have no regrets at all, but I do know the reality of low income getting in the way of a college education,
Kalidan
9
Forget the private colleges! They are private and should receive zero money from the state. In general, New York State public higher education is far superior to the private ones. Let them go bust!
5
Paying thousands a year for degrees in
Violin
Guitar
Lighting designer
YIKES!
And have either the parents or the prospective students exactly looked at the odds of being able to earn a living in those fields?
Every year thousands all over the US graduate with those kind of "my dream is to be a ....." kinda of degree in some "creative" field -- and the actual jobs in those areas number in the very very few hundreds.
These people need to stop worrying about whether to spend XXX for the state school in room and board or YYYY for the private school and live at home and go back to the basic question of Why Pay All That Money For A Degree That Will Lead To A Job As a Barrista?
Violin
Guitar
Lighting designer
YIKES!
And have either the parents or the prospective students exactly looked at the odds of being able to earn a living in those fields?
Every year thousands all over the US graduate with those kind of "my dream is to be a ....." kinda of degree in some "creative" field -- and the actual jobs in those areas number in the very very few hundreds.
These people need to stop worrying about whether to spend XXX for the state school in room and board or YYYY for the private school and live at home and go back to the basic question of Why Pay All That Money For A Degree That Will Lead To A Job As a Barrista?
14
it is call endless childhood with no responsibilities.
6
I was lucky enough to go to Purchase and graduate with a degree in Lighting Design. The conservatory there taught me so much more than design, it is the foundation of my career as a construction professional. The faculty prepared us for our lives as creative professionals. They showed us that working in the arts is difficult and they brought out the tenacity in all of their students. There were many lessons that myself and my fellow class mates return to repeatedly. All of us may no longer work in theater, but we all give 100% to the jobs we do have.
The arts doesn't teach people how to dream. It teaches people to take those dreams and to use logic and craftsmanship so they can make an idea become a reality. That dream can be a staged performance, a brand new subway station, or teaching a class of autistic students. I will be happy to see my tax dollars go to work in sending young people to schools where they learn to think for themselves.
The arts doesn't teach people how to dream. It teaches people to take those dreams and to use logic and craftsmanship so they can make an idea become a reality. That dream can be a staged performance, a brand new subway station, or teaching a class of autistic students. I will be happy to see my tax dollars go to work in sending young people to schools where they learn to think for themselves.
10
Thanks Carol.
In addition many of those music majors go on to become top notch music teachers. Its been demonstrated over and over again that learning music in childhood improves performance in every other subject, especially math.
In addition many of those music majors go on to become top notch music teachers. Its been demonstrated over and over again that learning music in childhood improves performance in every other subject, especially math.
1
The worry about funding a college degree can be a tremendous burden on students from families that don't make a lot of money or where the parents did not attend college. In my own case, I was decidedly from a working class background, although my father, as a heavy equipment operator, made more than the average lawyer throughout most of his working life. In my first year, he paid tuition and room and (some) board, but I never felt completely secure that the money would be available as needed. After that, I took over my own financing, but there was quite a bit of drama in that process (this was in the days before student loans became a regular way of paying for the whole deal).
Everything in America turns on money, doesn't it? Years ago I read that Penn, an Ivy League school, has a large enough endowment to allow every undergrad to go for free, but they still charge big bucks. They want the parents and students to highly value the college and they know money is the universal measuring stick.
I believe the idea of free college is a mistake, but it is also probably a good mistake that will help many students advance who would otherwise fall by the wayside. These days, most students don't graduate in four years. In fact, it is much more common now to spread it out over six years (some of that is the fault of colleges and the courses offered+requirements). Does anyone study why most people now don't get 4 yr. degrees in 4 yrs.? The cost is a major factor.
Everything in America turns on money, doesn't it? Years ago I read that Penn, an Ivy League school, has a large enough endowment to allow every undergrad to go for free, but they still charge big bucks. They want the parents and students to highly value the college and they know money is the universal measuring stick.
I believe the idea of free college is a mistake, but it is also probably a good mistake that will help many students advance who would otherwise fall by the wayside. These days, most students don't graduate in four years. In fact, it is much more common now to spread it out over six years (some of that is the fault of colleges and the courses offered+requirements). Does anyone study why most people now don't get 4 yr. degrees in 4 yrs.? The cost is a major factor.
4
Actually Penn is need blind and meetings 100% of demonstrated need. As an Alum, I really like that.
Wow, four more years of JHS for free! Whee!
9
New York's economy is dependent on the arts. Think photography, video, television, Internet and new media, fashion, advertising, graphic design, architecture, music performance and production, not to mention painters and sculptors. The list goes on and on.
6
Thank you Brian.
Subsidies should be for people planning on majoring and then working in STEM fields. Music and arts are nice and all, but it's unfair to force the taxpayer to subsidize someone's passion project.
10
I don't believe you understand the part art plays in our world. Art is more than "nice" and a passion project. It plays an integral role in business and industry.
Every piece of clothing you purchase was designed by an artist.
Every book you pick up was designed by an artist.
Every dish you break was designed by an artist.
Every building you walk in to was designed by an artist.
I'm really tired of the tired of people who make their living in the arts, and the disrespect shown to art majors.
Every piece of clothing you purchase was designed by an artist.
Every book you pick up was designed by an artist.
Every dish you break was designed by an artist.
Every building you walk in to was designed by an artist.
I'm really tired of the tired of people who make their living in the arts, and the disrespect shown to art majors.
2
Wait, what's that sound? Thousands of families ( in particularly immigrants) relocating to NY state. May be a win/win.
6
NY is a great state to be 'stuck' in for five years after graduation. i don't think it has our ghastly 'right to work' laws, it has natural beauty and great cities. Sounds like a great idea to me.
8
I have an education only because NY has the SUNY system. I never could have afforded college and law school otherwise.
NY has the opportunity to turn the SUNY schools into magnets for the best and the brightest. The requirement that a student live and work in NY for the number of years the student has received aid is a wonderful way to stop the exodus of bright, capable young people.
NY has the opportunity to turn the SUNY schools into magnets for the best and the brightest. The requirement that a student live and work in NY for the number of years the student has received aid is a wonderful way to stop the exodus of bright, capable young people.
24
Just like with Obamacare, these types of programs only perpetuate the central problem: exorbitant costs. The money has to come from somewhere (e.g. taxpayers); it's not "free".
15
Liberal / progressives always want to buy votes with other people's money.
4
We know that it's not free and I don't mind paying taxes for this ( no increase in taxes btw) .It will end up being cheaper for me and my family. Who pays for K-12 education, fire, police , unemployment insurance, FEMA etc. ?
12
Any kind of subsidy skews competition and lets the vendor (colleges, in this case) charge more.
If no students got state or federal help in the form of grants or loans, colleges would have to drop prices or they'd go out of business.
If no students got state or federal help in the form of grants or loans, colleges would have to drop prices or they'd go out of business.
3
I went to school in New York. Can I get $6,500 dollars?
3
Parents and students, as you court offers by competing schools and attend events for admitted students, ask hard questions. Don't assume expensive = better. Ask: what percentage of the school's courses are taught by adjuncts (temporary instructors hired course-by-coures) and how many by regular, full-time faculty? What is the percentage in your preferred major? Who are they and how much are they paid? Are they professionals in the arts or business? Are they the top, beset grad students at the same institution? Or are they Ph.Ds who are cobbling together adjunct lectureships in several different institutions due to the bad academic job market? Many of the latter are wonderful teachers, but you might be surprised to find that some very expensive schools pay many of their instructors only a few thousand dollars to teach a 3 or 4 credit course for an entire semester. So the adjunct instructor, however gifted, might not have sufficient time for class preparation, advising, involving students in research, recommendation-letter writing, etc. It can be very enriching for a student to take courses with temporary, adjunct instructors. Some of the best teachers at my institution are emerging scholars who have not yet gotten a tenure-track position. However, you want a curriculum that is primarily directed by and taught by full-time faculty who are also engaged in research and faculty governance and will likely be there from freshman to senior year.
19
It's distressing to read comments by people that might benefit greatly from this program complaining that they have to stick around for 5 years after graduation. How about being grateful for the opportunity?
As far as I'm concerned, anyone that is eligible for this program but decides to take on debt to get a fancier name on their degree has no right to whine or complain if they can't pay back the loans later.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone that is eligible for this program but decides to take on debt to get a fancier name on their degree has no right to whine or complain if they can't pay back the loans later.
34
how about if everyone who sends their kids to schools that are part of the 5 trillion plus unfunded pension liability sign on to be responsible and to hold harmless all non public k-12 parents and private college parents. You will see how "free" this is
1
After graduating from CUNY back in the days when it was free, I went to graduate school in another state and then moved back to NYC, where I've lived ever since.
Despite being a women at a time of little opportunity beyond nursing, my graduate education enabled me to end up in low six figure executive jobs, pay copious taxes, create social welfare programs that have benefited many thousands of New Yorkers and buy an apartment that skyrocketed in value. When I die, the proceeds from the apartment will endow a scholarship for hose who can't benefit from Excelsior.
So.., tell me again why allowing graduates to go out of state to study is a bad idea?
Despite being a women at a time of little opportunity beyond nursing, my graduate education enabled me to end up in low six figure executive jobs, pay copious taxes, create social welfare programs that have benefited many thousands of New Yorkers and buy an apartment that skyrocketed in value. When I die, the proceeds from the apartment will endow a scholarship for hose who can't benefit from Excelsior.
So.., tell me again why allowing graduates to go out of state to study is a bad idea?
1
Interesting comments, in that so many of them are "Chicken Little," of the "Did they think of (insert prediction of dire problems.)
No one complained when the USA gave tens of thousand of returning WWII vets free tuition, did they? And what happened? Most of those men became teachers, engineers, doctors, and other high paying jobs (OK, maybe not teachers!) that resulted in a lot more income tax collected, thus offsetting the program's costs and a lot more.
Perhaps the naysayers need to explain how a number of western Europe's nations have free tuition through PhD, if qualified. They understand it is an investment with positive returns, not a burden.
No one complained when the USA gave tens of thousand of returning WWII vets free tuition, did they? And what happened? Most of those men became teachers, engineers, doctors, and other high paying jobs (OK, maybe not teachers!) that resulted in a lot more income tax collected, thus offsetting the program's costs and a lot more.
Perhaps the naysayers need to explain how a number of western Europe's nations have free tuition through PhD, if qualified. They understand it is an investment with positive returns, not a burden.
47
the rest of the world was in ruins and we had more money than we knew what to do with it.
2
Just like in Germany by way of example, we could have heavily subsidized post-secondary education. We could also - as per Germany - tell your kid in an early grade that they are not going to college - period. All German students are sorted into one of three different education tracks: Gymnasium, Realschulen or Hauptschulen.
If everyone in a country wants to go to university for a four-year party, then the taxpayers can't be expected to foot the bill.
If everyone in a country wants to go to university for a four-year party, then the taxpayers can't be expected to foot the bill.
9
The key words? "If qualified." Not everyone gets to go to college in Europe, and they look for a return on investment. Not many European schools will finance a major in guitar. The SUNY system, at least at the community college level, has open enrollment. Husband teaches at one of those schools, and he can attest to the fact that a number of students should not be in college. And we should pay for them?
4
Will the CUNYs and SUNYs get extra money to hire the additional faculty and build the classroom space needed to teach the influx of students from Excelsior? At some CUNY schools there are already classes where not every student has a chair/desk and they sit on the floor.
Ultimately, this will reproduce a 2-tier system: private college with small classes and individual attention for those who can afford it and public college with huge classes, little meaningful advisement, an overburdened career center, etc.
On the other hand, perhaps there won't be an influx: My understanding is that 78,000 families qualify for Excelsior but that NYS has only budgeted outlay for 36,000.
Ultimately, this will reproduce a 2-tier system: private college with small classes and individual attention for those who can afford it and public college with huge classes, little meaningful advisement, an overburdened career center, etc.
On the other hand, perhaps there won't be an influx: My understanding is that 78,000 families qualify for Excelsior but that NYS has only budgeted outlay for 36,000.
3
SUNY and CUNY colleges will accept a lower percentage of applicants if the Excelsior scholarships result in an increase in yield rates. So the scenario of larger classes will be limited. Both private and public colleges have both large and small classes anyway. Meanwhile, the lower acceptance rates will raise SUNY rankings in publications like "US News and World Reports." So, the scholarships could raise the prestige of SUNY colleges and attract more out of state applicants (who pay higher tuition rates). It will be interesting to see what happens.
5
Cuomo has trashed CUNY and underfunded it in every way imaginable. While the Excelsior program is a good first step, it only has teeth if SUNY and CUNY are able to keep up with improvements to infrastructure and paying their workers more. Too many have left the system in recent years for many other colleges and universities, both private and public, that not only talk the talk but walk the walk.
And, no, CUNY will be inundated with more students.
And, no, CUNY will be inundated with more students.
3
Free college is a misnomer. Truth is all that is happening is transferring financial responsibility from student to the taxpayer. Taxpayers whom are already overburdened, and this certainly isn't going to add any relief. All this iFs about is Andrew Cuomo using Free College for is a platform for his campaign to run for President in 2020 and bribing NY Voters for your vote. I'm dead against this!
9
Great idea. Our country should adopt the same policy. Educate our young and let the mundane low paying jobs go internationally. We would be investing in the future of our country and our children.
5
The argument that the Excelsior grants should be helping low income people are weak. They don't exclude low income people and may even reduce the debt load. They simply include NYs middle class.
But "the rich" are not really benefiting at the expense of the poor. In New York, many of the counties that have high incomes have commensurately high costs of living. Realistically, $100K in those areas is akin to $50-$75K in Averageville USA. But the FAFSA and CSA calculations don't account for cost of living, so they eat significantly more of a family's after tax income. The Excelsior is a program aimed at the middle which has few other options, other than crippling debt.
Nor is the Excelsior free. Unless the lucky student lives within commuting distance of the SUNY that has their program, room, board, books and fees remain the lions share of the cost of college. For us, the closest of the three SUNYs with strong programs our kids were pursuing is more than 2 hours away. We'd still pay through the nose for college.
We all know that low income people struggle to pay for college; but needs based funding helps them; needs based funding cripples people who live in high cost areas. Give the NY middle class a break. Let our kids come out of college with less crippling debt too.
But "the rich" are not really benefiting at the expense of the poor. In New York, many of the counties that have high incomes have commensurately high costs of living. Realistically, $100K in those areas is akin to $50-$75K in Averageville USA. But the FAFSA and CSA calculations don't account for cost of living, so they eat significantly more of a family's after tax income. The Excelsior is a program aimed at the middle which has few other options, other than crippling debt.
Nor is the Excelsior free. Unless the lucky student lives within commuting distance of the SUNY that has their program, room, board, books and fees remain the lions share of the cost of college. For us, the closest of the three SUNYs with strong programs our kids were pursuing is more than 2 hours away. We'd still pay through the nose for college.
We all know that low income people struggle to pay for college; but needs based funding helps them; needs based funding cripples people who live in high cost areas. Give the NY middle class a break. Let our kids come out of college with less crippling debt too.
8
It's funny to think about free tuition. Free, it a beautiful word. What it means in this case someone else will pay. Some way others in New York State will pay this tuition.
It very nice that other people in nys want to pay the tuition of children of parents earn less than $100,000. However, it's not just not Free.
It very nice that other people in nys want to pay the tuition of children of parents earn less than $100,000. However, it's not just not Free.
10
And what happens at $101,000? Better to expand financial aid across the board and/or have sliding scale tuition than to give a freebie to families who meet an arbitrary qualification.
1
Am I to assume you feel the same way about K-12 public education?
1
Katie raises a good point in the argument: taxpayers already subsidize K-12 (though historically it's been a source of controversy about how and how much), so why not extend it to university? Yes, perhaps university should be free to all qualifiers as it is in Europe. Not only does the US have an issue of student debt, but our system keeps many (if not most) 18-21 year-olds dependent on their families. But the US has a tradition of small private liberal arts colleges that provide a better academic experience than the factory-style large publics for many students. That shouldn't be abandoned.
Unfortunately, this program leaves out undocumented students, who can't apply for Pell and other federal monies, so they can't use a last-dollar program like Excelsior.
1
Bettina Berch - Maybe their countries of citizenship can "kick-in" some money for their undocumented education! Or they can go back to their countries of citizenship to get their "free" education.
10
This is the problem for many, the middle class gets squeezed. My dad was was the VP for large building corporation, my mother, who taught music classes, didn't qualify for financial aid. This put a huge burden on our family financially. I worked in the summers and did what I could to help out. College should not be so costly, it puts families in debt. Even private universities need to do more to bring costs down. Private schools are very good at brand marketing. I applaud this governor for doing something right for middle class families. This program should be rolled out all over the country.
11
My daughter attends an Ivy League school and after all the of the "scholarships" and grants, which are substantial, we still have to come up with 20 grand a year. So, at first you think you have won some kind of prize, but then you realize the prize comes with strings: debt. It is as if we were, in the end, punished for having an academically gifted kid. When I haggle with their financial aid department, they seem as though they think are family should be grateful, as though we act entitled, spoiled. We're just another struggling middle class American family, nothing more. The private schools are underfunded, and stingy; the public schools are simply underfunded. When the rich private colleges mean "zero" cost to attend on their websites, that is after the expected family contribution; which ends up being bank loans. What the private schools think is "fair" is debatable. It never covers all the extra expense. It a sham. My child's college is the University of Pennsylvania in Philly.
11
I can't fathom an actual adult complaining about this.
No college forces any student to attend. Students choose to attend.
If a family fails to read the fine print, that's on the family, not the school.
No one can make a parent or student take out a bank loan.
Most academically gifted kids get good scholarships to state schools (mine did). Families who turn those offers down so they can take on debt elsewhere are entitled to do so, but it's strange to complain about the consequences.
No college forces any student to attend. Students choose to attend.
If a family fails to read the fine print, that's on the family, not the school.
No one can make a parent or student take out a bank loan.
Most academically gifted kids get good scholarships to state schools (mine did). Families who turn those offers down so they can take on debt elsewhere are entitled to do so, but it's strange to complain about the consequences.
9
I'm sorry. Did somebody force your child to go to an Ivy League school where tuition, room and board costs $72,000 per year? Your daughter is at the University of Pennsylvania with a 9% acceptance rate and you object to paying $20,000 per year for this elite, private college, considered one of the best in the world? Let your daughter leave and give her spot to a more deserving, appreciative applicant. If you didn't want to pay $20,000 per year your daughter, who obviously is one of the best and the brightest, she could have attended and received a full-ride, READ: FREE, NO COST TO YOU, from any one of thousands of other colleges in this country. The nerve of you to complain about paying $20,000 for the University of Pennsylvania.
9
My son attends one of the more highly ranked SUNY schools (it's in the USNWR top 100). It costs us about $20,000/yr. You daughter will graduate with an Ivy League degree and will benefit from the prestige and open doors that any Ivy League degree confers upon it's graduates. Not saying this out of jealousy, my son didn't have Ivy League grades. You don't get into UPenn unless you're highly intelligent and work very hard. She'll go to the head of the line, while my son won't. That's what your $20,000/yr gets you, which mine doesn't.
I am retired from teaching at a SUNY college. While there are some things that seem good about this plan, there are disturbing factors about the SUNY system that the public is not aware of, which could undermine the benefits of this plan.
- The SUNY system administration is hugely bureaucratic, filled with corruption. I know of instances in which retired administrators at a number of colleges were paid salaries for an extra year after they retired. Sometimes the colleges create fake job titles (and even fake offices and phones) in order to hide these payments.
- I know of many instances in which SUNY colleges have mishandled serious situations on their campuses, such sexual harassment of students. Often, SUNY will pay off the harasser rather than address the problem. Again, they pay these settlements as salary for "alternate assignments" (fake jobs), rather than as legal settlements; this hides the settlements from public scrutiny.
- SUNY-Central changes its funding distribution formula every few years. The colleges can't make hires and maintain facilities without knowing how to plan their budgets. Sometimes tuition from one campus is taken away and given to another. Buildings are crumbling, and the faculty are too demoralized to care about their work.
A state offical once said to me: "SUNY is a cesspool of corruption."
This new plan will likely just keep using our taxes to fund this corruption, rather than actually improving education at SUNY colleges.
- The SUNY system administration is hugely bureaucratic, filled with corruption. I know of instances in which retired administrators at a number of colleges were paid salaries for an extra year after they retired. Sometimes the colleges create fake job titles (and even fake offices and phones) in order to hide these payments.
- I know of many instances in which SUNY colleges have mishandled serious situations on their campuses, such sexual harassment of students. Often, SUNY will pay off the harasser rather than address the problem. Again, they pay these settlements as salary for "alternate assignments" (fake jobs), rather than as legal settlements; this hides the settlements from public scrutiny.
- SUNY-Central changes its funding distribution formula every few years. The colleges can't make hires and maintain facilities without knowing how to plan their budgets. Sometimes tuition from one campus is taken away and given to another. Buildings are crumbling, and the faculty are too demoralized to care about their work.
A state offical once said to me: "SUNY is a cesspool of corruption."
This new plan will likely just keep using our taxes to fund this corruption, rather than actually improving education at SUNY colleges.
8
The original purpose of the "land-grant colleges" in each state was to provide college education to residents of said state at low or no cost. We are just going back to original thinking about higher education. But, alas, less simply.
10
In Japan the very best and brightest students go to a public university for free. The not so bright students pay a lot of money to go to private universities. Imagine if we did that in the US.
The model that NY State is developing for SUNY should be replicated across the nation.
The model that NY State is developing for SUNY should be replicated across the nation.
21
Nothing is free
11
It may be "free" to those who receive it, but it is not free to those who have to pay for it.
5
How much do you pay for sunlight and air to breath?
Education isn't a cost that drains, it is an investment that builds our economy. No one says it is free, students have to work to get into college and to succeed in college. There are a plethora of other costs. Have you priced college textbooks lately? No one is getting a free education, they are merely getting an affordable one, at least we hope it's affordable.
Education isn't a cost that drains, it is an investment that builds our economy. No one says it is free, students have to work to get into college and to succeed in college. There are a plethora of other costs. Have you priced college textbooks lately? No one is getting a free education, they are merely getting an affordable one, at least we hope it's affordable.
12
This article is incorrect in stating NY is the first state to do this. In the State of Georgia you can attend College for "free" under the Zell Miller or Hope Scholarships if you meet GPA requirements. There are no strings attached such as staying in the state for 4 years, 30 credits per year or no time off for a medical or personal circumstance or it turns into a loan and no income restrictions. It is funded through lottery monies. This includes schools such as Georgia Tech. Secondly, you have to GET IN. You can barely be admitted at SUNY now unless you have Harvard level credentials. An average student doesn't stand a chance. Lastly, this program is not fully funded and will run out of funding to help students who want it. Current students are prioritized first and new students and transfers will be in a lottery. You have to apply for it and the schools themselves don't administer it. The money is the same amount as Pell so it is only going to help a small sliver of students - 3% according to statistics. This is all optics and totally will confuse and anger families in the long run.
4
It's a big risk to bank on the "scholarship." If you don't finish in 4 years, you've got yourself a bunch of loans.
2
It's free therefore no "sweat equity" on the part of the students. In some cases, some students, will receive exactly what they "pay for." Hopefully New York businesses will be able to cull the wheat from the chaff.
6
What is "free" for some is actually paid for by others, all taxpayers. Maybe the headline should be "College tuition for some is now shunted off to be paid for by all taxpayers". Some politicians thought it would be a great idea to take your hard earned tax money and give it to some other people so that they could get a free ride. How nice of them, so generous.
11
So the big headline for many is 'government steals from many to support few', eh?
New flash; that's how governments work and why they were set up and perpetrated. Just because in this instance it's something YOU don't find value with, is no reason the rest of us don't find value.
Don't like it? Run for office, convince a lot of people that YOUR way is better and take a vote. This happened, and people that though just like you LOST in this instance.
If you REALLY hate it, and you're actually a citizen of our state, donate the few shekels it actually costs you, personally, to a person or organization that will change it. Or move out of the state if it really makes you lose sleep....
New flash; that's how governments work and why they were set up and perpetrated. Just because in this instance it's something YOU don't find value with, is no reason the rest of us don't find value.
Don't like it? Run for office, convince a lot of people that YOUR way is better and take a vote. This happened, and people that though just like you LOST in this instance.
If you REALLY hate it, and you're actually a citizen of our state, donate the few shekels it actually costs you, personally, to a person or organization that will change it. Or move out of the state if it really makes you lose sleep....
6
I dont live in your state but I'm paying for parts of your roads through federal grants. So how do you justify driving on them?
8
This article is incorrect in stating other states do not have programs of this nature. Georgia uses their lottery proceeds to fund "free" tuition with absolutely no income caps or restrictions such as staying in the state or paying back the funds if you have to take a semester off due to personal circumstances. New York has all kinds of hidden details and what is even more frustrating is that families think they are going to get this. Most of them won't be able to. There is only enough funding for 3% of eligible students! On top of that, they have to be able to get in. You can barely get in to SUNY now unless you are a top student. You will be in a lottery and there is no guarantee. Room, board and fees are not covered. If you are eligible for Pell, you already go for free if you get in. This is only going to cover a small sliver of students at the upper income bracket and not the majority of hard-working New York families that have B level students.
5
"You will be in a lottery and there is no guarantee."
Why not admissions based on academic merit, not lotteries, race or income?
Why not admissions based on academic merit, not lotteries, race or income?
7
This draws talented middle class students to public colleges, avoids burdening them with debt, keeps them in the state to generate new ideas. It is about time there was some state reinvestment in higher education. The private colleges pay their presidents too much and are competing with amenities, advertising and snob appeal, not superior faculty. Why do students go to college? To learn something of significance, not just to get a piece of paper that supposedly gets them a job! The siphoning off of talent to the privates schools has created a mad unsustainable debt, forcing these students into professions that promise high incomes, and often do not deliver. Keep talent in the state through affordable state and regional schools; it will lift all boats.
30
The private colleges are paying their presidents to be fund-raisers. If they pay a guy $5 million, and he brings in $100 million in new money, they figure they made $95 million on the deal.
5
This program works to solve several problems, but the one closest to my experience is closing the college cost gap for middle class. We have created a situation with "financial need" where one is actually better off not to save for college, and to be poor when sending your kids. Lower middle class families really get slapped with college debt.
17
If you are near the magic $100K line, you are taking a big risk with this program. What if you get an unexpected bonus, or one of the stocks you own get acquired in an all-cash deal? Boom, you're over $100K, that'll be $6500, please.
Looks like I'm wrong. According to the NY government web site, eligibility for 2017-18 will be determined by 2015 AGI. Presumably, 2018-19 will be determined by 2016 AGI, and so on.
I wasn't able to determine exactly what is meant by the 'live and work in NY state' requirements. I would guess you have to file a NY state resident income tax return with some earned income for each of the years, but they're not very specific about exactly how they will determine if you're living and working in NY state.
I wasn't able to determine exactly what is meant by the 'live and work in NY state' requirements. I would guess you have to file a NY state resident income tax return with some earned income for each of the years, but they're not very specific about exactly how they will determine if you're living and working in NY state.
1
Yeah, that sounds awful. Because if that happened, you'd be ... no worse off than you were before.
I went to CCNY for free in the '60s. One thing that does not get mentioned often is that free college is a lure for the best students. Everyone in my school had to work hard to get accepted, and the level of instruction was high, often because of the caliber of the students in the classroom.
Even though it was not a requirement for me to work in NY for 5 years, I have lived and worked in NY my entire life, so far. NY is a great state, and educating the state's children will be the way to keep it great.
Even though it was not a requirement for me to work in NY for 5 years, I have lived and worked in NY my entire life, so far. NY is a great state, and educating the state's children will be the way to keep it great.
52
Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember that free tuition in CUNY went the way of the dodo bird precisely when admission standards were removed and replaced with an 'anyone who applies gets in' policy. I completed my undergraduate degree in a CUNY school, paying out of pocket from my day job; but I gotta say, there were more than a few total morons in one of my courses to the point where I stopped attending and just showed up for the final exam. The professor actually called me out of it, but later apologized when I aced the exam and the remainder of the class flunked it.
I teach at a SUNY community college. My students carry full course loads and work one, and often two, jobs. They then apply to four-year colleges, and decisions are based in large part (often solely) on financial aid. I have some outstanding students who cannot get the education they need to become OUR doctors, lawyers, artists, and more. This is nothing short of fantastic news!
82
Other states have done this. In the 1970s there was a teacher shortage in Maryland. I went to college tuition free and had to pledge to teach a year in Maryland for each year I received free tuition. My sister did the same thing. I spent 26 years teaching in Maryland and retired to New York. If a young person can live at home, commute to college and have free tuition, they will have little if any debt when they graduate. i think it is a great idea for Upstate new Yorkers like my grandkids. It might also keep them in rural New York where we are loosing population.
34
Bet you that the cost of attending a school in NY goes up. Colleges are going to game the system !
16
The program provides for free tuition. Are you saying that colleges will raise the price of attending by calling the increase something other than tuition? Remember, these are state schools, and the state is mandating the free tuition program. So exactly how will the colleges "game the system?"
Instead, I would look for private schools that are competing with the NY state schools, and probably state schools in nearby states, to try to find ways to move effectively compete by lowering costs. It is common for state schools near the state line in many states to offer students residing within some certain distance of the line in-state tuition to get them to cross the line to attend.
Instead, I would look for private schools that are competing with the NY state schools, and probably state schools in nearby states, to try to find ways to move effectively compete by lowering costs. It is common for state schools near the state line in many states to offer students residing within some certain distance of the line in-state tuition to get them to cross the line to attend.
5
How will "the taxpayer funded" college be funded? Through a 20% income tax hike on middle class working population?
30
College graduates get better paying jobs and therefore pay higher taxes. Even the 2 year programs pay for themselves
6
Sour grapes, Jan from NJ?
Where do you come up with this 20% number? Did you just make it up? From what I can tell this will be "paid" for by EXTENDING for 2 years an already existing 8.825% tax on people earning over $1M per year. And, if students can get other grants/scholarships they are used first to pay tuition, and then the state program fills in the rest. Also while tuition IS free (under these rules) it does not cover other fees or books. The student must also remain in NY post graduation (one year for each free year; otherwise the grant becomes a loan)
How can tax money be used to compete with private colleges that employ tens of thousands in New york. Did anyone think of this? I can think of so many struggling colleges that pay their teachers less than public (I have been an adjunct in IT at both and pubic pays better). When Bernie proposed this last year, the Historically Black Universities(HBU) complained and he said "OK, we will add you too" That shows the lack of thought that Cuomo and Bernie put into this. Idiotic and sad and thoughtless
12
The president of the small, private, and financially struggling college where I work recently emailed everyone, trying to calm nerves in response to the overwhelming competition posed by the Excelsior Scholarship. Even now, adjunct faculty are severely underpaid and work on a "contingent " basis with no security from semester to semester and no benefits at all. This new competition for student dollars does not bode well.
Cuomo must reconsider the implications of this effort and accommodate the full range of New York State higher ed institutions.
Cuomo must reconsider the implications of this effort and accommodate the full range of New York State higher ed institutions.
3
The City University schools, pre-CUNY and pre-1975 were free, and before open admissions, when things were still competitive, the private schools in the City (e.g., Columbia, NYU, Juillliard, Polytechnic, St. John's, Fordham, and a host of others) did just fine. Maybe the extra support from the state will enable the SUNY schools to hire more full-time, tenure-track faculty. That is the issue. Adjuncts are day laborerrs, waiting for the semesterly pick-up truck to roll by. Many great people exploited.
5
I live in New York State. My youngest is graduating from SUNY this year. My older two children graduated from SUNY in the last four years and have very good jobs in their chosen careers; I do not think private schools would have led to more desirable employment. All three would have had considerable debt at graduation had they gone to an out of state school or private school, and their quality of life while starting new careers would have suffered. I would encourage any in-state student worried about debt to attend SUNY, if that is the best option financially. All my kids had great experiences academically and socially.
66
Our goal was to get our children through college with either zero debt or as near to zero as possible. We did not take out loans and neither will our children. Neither child will have to work during college (other than internships).
However, we told them they must attend an in-state school unless a private or out-of-state public school was less expensive when all expenses (including travel) were totaled up.
Some families have to borrow just to afford the in-state colleges; we would have done that had it been necessary. But to borrow money to cover the costs of a more expensive private school or out-of-state school? That kind of thinking astounds me.
However, we told them they must attend an in-state school unless a private or out-of-state public school was less expensive when all expenses (including travel) were totaled up.
Some families have to borrow just to afford the in-state colleges; we would have done that had it been necessary. But to borrow money to cover the costs of a more expensive private school or out-of-state school? That kind of thinking astounds me.
1
Under this "free" tuition plan, following graduation students have to work for 5 years in New York State. Thus every year many thousands of young people will be seeking entry-level professional positions. Will there be enough available positions for graduates? Has there been any research showing that the New York State economy can produce a job for each graduate?
32
The reason for this is precisely that we don't want to lose smart young college graduates ("the brain drain"). Can NY support this? NY needs it in order not to educate students who then leave.
6
Your facts are wrong. You reside in NY for the same number of years you accept the Scholarship.
1
Why 5 years and not 4.... they want you to finish in 4 years?
This is a great first step. I propose that all states do this, and the in-state requirement eventually become reciprocal among the States and NAFTA partners, an E.U. type of movement, to actually do something to help the middle class and improve academic and employment opportunities after graduation. In addition, grants to poorer families should be enhanced. If private schools want to attract students, they can always lower their prices. Oh, no, not real competition!
23
There is presently over 1 trillion dollar unfunded pension debt for public colleges in the USA despite the heavy spending and subsidizing by all taxpayers. There is zero in private colleges who actually have to pay their bills. My daughters both attended a Jesuit University in Midwest where our net cost was reasonable so there is competition. Free everything is Bernie speak and not really thought out. By the way Bernie is largely responsible for President Trump..is everyone happy?
3
More unqualified students in colleges taking up limited resources (as if there weren't enough of that already) contributing to the dumbing down of our education systems, while the best and brightest go elsewhere, just as happened with CUNY and their 'open enrollment' policy.