Of course not all Black families (I personally find the "word" Black offensive by the way.) This group of people of color are moving right along. Not all "Black's" are violent, ruthless killers but are mixing into middle and upper class society quite well. I applaud this group and the progress they have made. It still is a long road for Blacks in America but they are on the right path. The Jews have been trying to overcome the haters for over 5,000 years so my Black friends be patient.
2
Interesting article. I don't quite get how a picture of a child's birthday party in the park is associated with Black upward mobility. Is it to suggest Blacks are in such dire straits that a picnic in the park is some type of "come up" or rare novelty?
4
The one thing that rich liberals have in common with poor blacks is that they both assume that the middle class is huge, wealthy, naive and willing/able to support the entire country. Limousine liberals try to use the poor blacks to get elected, unfortunately, this alliance comes at the expense of the middle class.
2
"the gap between blacks and whites — 'has narrowed sharply among men at the top of the earnings ladder'."
This has actually very little relevance. Is it that different from saying Isn't great Barack became the US president? Or saying Oprah Winfrey is a famous billionaire.
What the president was referring to was the dismal conditions of the inner-city blacks, the extremely high rate of black-on-black violence or very high rate of incarceration plaguing the black community. The conditions of black Americans actually are not that much different from how they were at almost any time history. The white indifference & the black leaders' blind spots by not acknowledging the propensity for violence among their own disadvantaged youths make it far worse than it needs to be.
And I do appreciate what Pres. Trump said about it. He could have as well kept his mouth shut, like other whites are. I thought it was his humaneness that reflected in his sentiments.
This has actually very little relevance. Is it that different from saying Isn't great Barack became the US president? Or saying Oprah Winfrey is a famous billionaire.
What the president was referring to was the dismal conditions of the inner-city blacks, the extremely high rate of black-on-black violence or very high rate of incarceration plaguing the black community. The conditions of black Americans actually are not that much different from how they were at almost any time history. The white indifference & the black leaders' blind spots by not acknowledging the propensity for violence among their own disadvantaged youths make it far worse than it needs to be.
And I do appreciate what Pres. Trump said about it. He could have as well kept his mouth shut, like other whites are. I thought it was his humaneness that reflected in his sentiments.
6
"Affirmative Action" ought to be outlawed.
I put the expression in quotes exactly because we all know what it really is
-- namely, racial quotas (etymological double entendre intended) in thin disguise.
Those touting and defending "affirmative action" will never stop pushing it until all jobs and incomes are distributed statistically among all "races" in "proportion" to their distribution among the general population -- in other words, until the sub rosa racial quotas have been achieved.
And I put "races" in quotes exactly because use of the construct of "race" in this context -- racial quotas, whatever the thin disguise -- begs the question of how to classify people of various degrees of mixed race heritage. For example, when compiling the statistics for racial distribution of jobs and incomes, how ought a person of 50% African American heritage be counted? And who is to make that determination?
One very large unsaid group of beneficiaries of "affirmative action" have been the decision makers -- the supervisors -- the persons who hire and fire, who promote and demote. "Affirmative Action" lets them take the easy road of simply sub rosa setting racial quotas without having to make hard race-neutral decisions about merit. Simply set aside -- sub rosa of course -- 13% of the slots for African Americans and various other percentages for other races (using whatever (non-rigorous) racial classification methods pass muster) and hire, fire, promote and demote within each category.
I put the expression in quotes exactly because we all know what it really is
-- namely, racial quotas (etymological double entendre intended) in thin disguise.
Those touting and defending "affirmative action" will never stop pushing it until all jobs and incomes are distributed statistically among all "races" in "proportion" to their distribution among the general population -- in other words, until the sub rosa racial quotas have been achieved.
And I put "races" in quotes exactly because use of the construct of "race" in this context -- racial quotas, whatever the thin disguise -- begs the question of how to classify people of various degrees of mixed race heritage. For example, when compiling the statistics for racial distribution of jobs and incomes, how ought a person of 50% African American heritage be counted? And who is to make that determination?
One very large unsaid group of beneficiaries of "affirmative action" have been the decision makers -- the supervisors -- the persons who hire and fire, who promote and demote. "Affirmative Action" lets them take the easy road of simply sub rosa setting racial quotas without having to make hard race-neutral decisions about merit. Simply set aside -- sub rosa of course -- 13% of the slots for African Americans and various other percentages for other races (using whatever (non-rigorous) racial classification methods pass muster) and hire, fire, promote and demote within each category.
4
Ban affirmative action you say? Does that include white privilege and the benefits you enjoy due to enslavement? Didn't think so
4
"But for the ascendant black upper middle class, Anderson continues, “in the shadows lurks the specter of the urban ghetto. The iconic ghetto is always in the background,” shaping
Americans’ conception of the anonymous black person as well as the circumstances of blacks of all walks of life."
What lurks in the heart of the American white person is the evil of his forefathers, racism. That is, the notion that white skin is the "norm" in the world. That world view has been maintained since the renaissance.
A close examination of the renaissance shows the West took advantages of the Arabic numbers, science, technology, philosophy, of the Moors in Al Andalus -- i.e., Muslim Spain. For seven hundred years, the Moors translated, read, extrapolated the Classic writings of the Greek world, created algebra, made new discoveries in medicine, optics, while the "Dark Ages" -- read the Catholic Church -- prevailed over the Western -- read Europe.
In like manner, the benefits black people have brought to the United States have been minimized. Without the free labor of slaves and the laws restricting black people to certain types of work; not allowing them to own property; restricting where they could live; their educational advantages and above all the use of police and KKK to keep black people "in their place" the belated progress some black Americans -- just in case you don't know it, American means white -- would not have been so deprived.
Americans’ conception of the anonymous black person as well as the circumstances of blacks of all walks of life."
What lurks in the heart of the American white person is the evil of his forefathers, racism. That is, the notion that white skin is the "norm" in the world. That world view has been maintained since the renaissance.
A close examination of the renaissance shows the West took advantages of the Arabic numbers, science, technology, philosophy, of the Moors in Al Andalus -- i.e., Muslim Spain. For seven hundred years, the Moors translated, read, extrapolated the Classic writings of the Greek world, created algebra, made new discoveries in medicine, optics, while the "Dark Ages" -- read the Catholic Church -- prevailed over the Western -- read Europe.
In like manner, the benefits black people have brought to the United States have been minimized. Without the free labor of slaves and the laws restricting black people to certain types of work; not allowing them to own property; restricting where they could live; their educational advantages and above all the use of police and KKK to keep black people "in their place" the belated progress some black Americans -- just in case you don't know it, American means white -- would not have been so deprived.
2
So let's end affirmative action and diversity.
9
There are still white males who defend slavery and claim that struggling blacks deserve their plight and voted for a racist who claimed Obama was not a US citizen and voted for racist obstructionists who prevented any progress during the last 6 years of the Obama administration and even tried to put government and the country to a standstill. While I certainly applaud the success of a few African Americans, I am far more interested in supporting those who still struggle against very unfair odds related to the unmistakable characteristic of mere skin color.
9
Great article but I wish the NY Times would do something about all the trolls they seem to attract now.
5
[[Contrary to Donald Trump’s indiscriminate portrayal of African-Americans as “living in hell,” the black upper middle class is ascending the economic ladder at a faster rate than its white counterpart.]]
I dislike these kinds of comparisons. This country is too large and people's experience range too widely for this comparison to make any sense or to be of any use.
Additionally, if "white" people are father up the economic ladder, then their further advancement may be limited. "Black" people may be making larger or faster gains because they are coming from farther behind.
Rich "blacks" are making $253,296 while rich "whites" are making $364,354...are "black" people really winning there?
Poor people of every race, color and creed need to emulate rich people.
Step one: Finish school
Step two: Delay parenthood
Step three: limit the number of offspring
Step four: Spend money on things you can use (education, books, music lessons, savings, an index fund) instead of things you can see (a flat screen tv, rims for your car, a knockoff Fubu jacket).
"Black" people need to get a handle on the fatherless household problem. I would like to know what percentage of black boys and men in prison or jail were raised without fathers.
I dislike these kinds of comparisons. This country is too large and people's experience range too widely for this comparison to make any sense or to be of any use.
Additionally, if "white" people are father up the economic ladder, then their further advancement may be limited. "Black" people may be making larger or faster gains because they are coming from farther behind.
Rich "blacks" are making $253,296 while rich "whites" are making $364,354...are "black" people really winning there?
Poor people of every race, color and creed need to emulate rich people.
Step one: Finish school
Step two: Delay parenthood
Step three: limit the number of offspring
Step four: Spend money on things you can use (education, books, music lessons, savings, an index fund) instead of things you can see (a flat screen tv, rims for your car, a knockoff Fubu jacket).
"Black" people need to get a handle on the fatherless household problem. I would like to know what percentage of black boys and men in prison or jail were raised without fathers.
13
"...the black upper middle class is ascending the economic ladder at a faster rate than its white counterpart."
Hence the hatred, derision and jealousy.
Why do you think so many whites hate Obama for no rational reason whatsoever? He's "uppity." Oldest story in the book.
Hence the hatred, derision and jealousy.
Why do you think so many whites hate Obama for no rational reason whatsoever? He's "uppity." Oldest story in the book.
11
More blacks per capita voted for Trump than any Republican in recent history. Democrats ignored them at their own peril. Hillary's pandering was so racist. Remember when she claimed she carried tobacco sauce in her purse? Trump appealed to African Americans with a poignent message, The inner city is a hotbed of crime. Poverty is rampant, Home ownership down, Single family homes on the rise. Murders up. Look at Chicago and DC. Trump offered relief, a solution if you will. His brilliant slogan, "What do you have to lose" was the difference. It was pithy, and catchy. It captured the hearts and minds of the black voter.
4
That is completely false. Trump received slightly more of the black vote than Romney and McCain, but less than Bush II, who did well for a Republican among black voters.
7
Tobacco sauce? Is that some kind of nicotine replacement stuff? The contents of a "spittoir"? Never heard of it. And why would Hillary Clinton claim to carry that in her purse? Sounds yucky to me... Can't imagine her doing that.
4
This article is interesting because it only attacks the straw man interpretation of Trump's words. Trump wasn't talking about all black people, i.e., millionaire sports stars, rappers...Isn't that obvious? He was talking about black people in inner city ghettos. Nothing in the article contradicts the claim that they are in an urban public housing hell: Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore....notably dominated by Democrat for generations. Because nothing in the article address Trump's real point, now I know he is right.
10
Thank you for the clarification. So he wasn't referencing the Black Ph.Ds, MDs, Lawyers, scientists etc.
I appreciate your example of Black millionaires like rappers, athletes, etc., but I pray those were your first examples because you love sports and rap music and not negating that there are successful Blacks in many other fields.
I appreciate your example of Black millionaires like rappers, athletes, etc., but I pray those were your first examples because you love sports and rap music and not negating that there are successful Blacks in many other fields.
6
You are aware that there are many black doctors, engineers, lawyers and businesspeople, correct? Not all rich blacks are rappers or athletes. Then again, most Trump voters rarely interact with black people, if at all.
10
No. I find most sports and rap unbearable. Not really too concerned about triggering touchy snowflakes. American's of all colors need to grow a thicker skin if we are to remain the land of the free and the home of the brave.
4
Blacks are ascending the economic ladder faster than whites...don't worry, Trump will fix that.
8
Reading through some of the comments here has brought me to the conclusion that there are quite a few White people that believe that upper middle class Black people only exist on TV sitcoms and movies. The fact of the matter is since reconstruction following slavery there has been a Black middle class and a Black upper middle class. In the past this group was mostly connected to HBCU's the military and careers in education. The passage(and this part is key) and actual enforcement of anti discrimination laws at the federal and local level has had a significant impact in creating the environment that has expanded this group. However the stark reality is that African Americans struggle with upward economic mobility.The effect of 400 years of labor without wages(slavery) continues to leave a stain on Black citizens and the Nation.Access to the fruits of one's labor and the ability to leave your children an inheritance even a tiny one significantly improves the lives of ensuing generations. As a country we have yet to have that honest day of reckoning on the matter of that "Peculiar Institution". However the tendency to over generalize is very harmful. As a group other than Native Americans American Blacks have been here the longest and made the least progress. This is a fact.It would be great thing for the country if this phenomenom was reversed.Here is the proof that this can be done. I do hope the Trump administration is paying attention.
6
This shows the success of Affirmative Action and Civil Rights laws. It also shows what a lot of people have been saying - America is divided by class not race.
A lot of the stereotypes progressives play upon are really regressive. They are arguing against an America that no longer exists.
A lot of the stereotypes progressives play upon are really regressive. They are arguing against an America that no longer exists.
When African-Americans fare less well than white Americans, conservatives love to blame the victim: African-Americans make bad personal choices, we're told.
But when white Americans fare less well than other Americans, even if just in the rate of improvement, conservatives have decided that it's all the fault of immigrants and Muslims.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
But when white Americans fare less well than other Americans, even if just in the rate of improvement, conservatives have decided that it's all the fault of immigrants and Muslims.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
17
Or how whites using heroin is now a "crisis" but when blacks did it, it was a "character flaw."
12
Quite a few liberals appear to subscribe 'neo-liberalism' evidently because the word 'liberal' is in the phrase, apparently not knowing that it is most closely associated with the policies of Thatcher and Reagan. This article suggests that it is a using a kind of 'trickle down journalism' when describing the situation of blacks in the US, glossing over the issue in spite of a few words at the end. One would have expected the reverse, that 80% of the article would be devoted to the situation of 80% of blacks in the US. Otherwise I tend to like the articles posted by the author.
2
For some reason I believe he meant people in the Chicago inner cities who are being killed on a daily basis. That was the issue of the time in which it was said.
We all realize there are many people who actually want to work, study hard to accomplish their goals, etc. there are also many who don't have the wherewithal to get themselves out of impoverished conditions. Many perfectly able bodied people don't want to subsist on government handouts.
I really wish people would understand this, stop arguing, come together instead of blaming everything on this administration because as we are now discovering, plenty was done under previous administrations that got us here.
We all realize there are many people who actually want to work, study hard to accomplish their goals, etc. there are also many who don't have the wherewithal to get themselves out of impoverished conditions. Many perfectly able bodied people don't want to subsist on government handouts.
I really wish people would understand this, stop arguing, come together instead of blaming everything on this administration because as we are now discovering, plenty was done under previous administrations that got us here.
10
OMG, a rational well thought out comment from Cambridge, Mass , one of the bastions of far left liberalism . Thank you Dorothy for stating the real facts. Trump was referring to inner city Chicago, Baltimore and the like. Edsel is way off base as are most of the commenters.
6
I'm progressive, but have noticed that Democrats can talk all day long about how bad things are for blacks in America, but a Republican can't. Further, a Republican can't say that anything is going good for blacks either. as this article does.
Hmmm?
Wonder why so many blacks stayed home last election? Maybe because Democrats act they they own them?
Hmmm?
Wonder why so many blacks stayed home last election? Maybe because Democrats act they they own them?
9
With the constant talk of racism as our primary problem, the more important topic of conversation... that of economic inequality and class division has been utterly ignored. Now, Trump is threatening the nation with the formation of an oligarchy, a power structure that will be controlled by the rich and the liberal media continue to hem and haw, utterly unprepared for battle. Looking to nurse themselves to sleep with another police shooting. Well it is time to wake up! Liberals need to be more up front about money, more honest about the financial problems systemic in the the ACA and the other entitlement programs. Americans should be treated with more respect, we need to see that our taxes go toward providing modern, humane and clean nation that we take for granted.
4
Yes. This is why whenever someone talks about "White Privilege," I feel the need to immediately ask them "but what about urban privilege?" We often get caught up in racial wealth disparities when the geographic disparities are more striking. This has created a lot of distrust and frustration in rural areas; and I dare say it is what cost Hillary Clinton the White House.
.
While the specter of the "urban ghetto" might be in back of the the minds of upper middle class blacks - there is a grinding, growing poverty all around many poor whites (and blacks alike) in rural areas and small towns.
.
While the specter of the "urban ghetto" might be in back of the the minds of upper middle class blacks - there is a grinding, growing poverty all around many poor whites (and blacks alike) in rural areas and small towns.
11
Oh dear, all those dreadful facts. Best to just pretend not to hear. Perhaps the President* can send out a tweet.
This is why it's not a good idea to generalize.
2
Thoroughly confusing. Paragraph 3: "the percentage of black Americans earning at least $75,000 more than doubled from 1970 to 2014, to 21 percent. Those making $100,000 or more almost quadrupled to 13 percent (in contrast white Americans saw a less striking increase, from 11 to 26 percent)". Paragraph 12: In 2014, 8.1 percent of black households had incomes of $100,000 or more compared with 14.0 percent of white households." So which is it?
4
So we can end affirmative action?
9
Many of the comments in response to this article shows the how intense the level of resentment against blacks is in this country. And by way, these are from the self-professed tolerant NYT readers. Imagine what the responses to this article would be like on WSJ or Fox News website.
The fact that an article stating that not all blacks are living in hell would generate these many resentful comments on NYT is disheartening, especially given the fact that most articles about blacks are negative. This one half positive article about blacks still upset so many people. The good news to all those riled up by this article is that, lucky you, there are plenty of bad stories about blacks all over the internet to soothe your heart.
When blacks are reported as poor, the same resentful crowd would say, blacks need to pursue education and stop dropping out of high school. And when blacks do just that, they are resentful either way.
To those who tried to clothe their resentments under the guise of "affirmative actions", perhaps you should know that many of the blacks you see in colleges did meet admission requirements on merit and met the same graduation requirements set for everyone. Also, most of the black people at your company were not affirmative action hires. In fact, affirmative action does not mean lowering your employment standards for any race, it simply means companies are forbidden from rejecting qualified applicants only on the basis of race.
The fact that an article stating that not all blacks are living in hell would generate these many resentful comments on NYT is disheartening, especially given the fact that most articles about blacks are negative. This one half positive article about blacks still upset so many people. The good news to all those riled up by this article is that, lucky you, there are plenty of bad stories about blacks all over the internet to soothe your heart.
When blacks are reported as poor, the same resentful crowd would say, blacks need to pursue education and stop dropping out of high school. And when blacks do just that, they are resentful either way.
To those who tried to clothe their resentments under the guise of "affirmative actions", perhaps you should know that many of the blacks you see in colleges did meet admission requirements on merit and met the same graduation requirements set for everyone. Also, most of the black people at your company were not affirmative action hires. In fact, affirmative action does not mean lowering your employment standards for any race, it simply means companies are forbidden from rejecting qualified applicants only on the basis of race.
8
You mentioned the biased approach toward poor and educated black people. In addition, the same people who tell us black people to stop depending on affirmative action for jobs, call us racist when we create our own businesses and institutions for group uplift. The common examples are Ebony and BET, though for those who don't know, neither are black-owned today.
1
Does this mean all the black militant groups who try to convince us there is open season on African-Americans, that white America is out for their blood 24/7, that voter ID laws are racist because blacks can't be expected to know how to use the Internet or find out where the nearest Dept of Motor Vehicles office is to get a license or ID card, or all the usual melodramatic issues progressives use to cow votes out of the electorate with unending guilt and shame can give the country a break and give it a rest for a while?
8
I'm a black woman. My Mom never made more than $75 a week in her life. Currently I make $120k; My daughter makes $180k. I have three grandkids in college studying engineering.
What's different? For me at least it meant growing up poor. My first job was as a waitress. I realized pretty quickly that wasn;t going anyway so I got a job in an office and went back to school at night to earn a degree. I kept working and worked my way up. My daughter and grandkids on the other hands went straight from high school, through college, and my daughter and proabably grandkids will earn a masters before they enter the workforce.
We're always mindful of where we came from, we don't forget. No one gave us anything, we just had to work hard. But no, we're not all living in hell
What's different? For me at least it meant growing up poor. My first job was as a waitress. I realized pretty quickly that wasn;t going anyway so I got a job in an office and went back to school at night to earn a degree. I kept working and worked my way up. My daughter and grandkids on the other hands went straight from high school, through college, and my daughter and proabably grandkids will earn a masters before they enter the workforce.
We're always mindful of where we came from, we don't forget. No one gave us anything, we just had to work hard. But no, we're not all living in hell
41
to assume that black Amercans all live in a hell of poverty and depravity is absolutely nothing but racism.
that is absolutely not the reality I grew up with, where the assumption was generally that black people lived not in a parallel universe but the same world as whites, and faced the same human difficulties as everyone else for the most part. this was a lower middle class world where everyone's grandparents told tales of woe and poverty (if they made it out alive at all) and people generally had human sympathy and compasssion for their neighbors, friends, and coworkers regardless of color because we were pretty much all in the same boat, no matter how we got there. most of us had relatives with serious problems such as poverty, crime, and social disfunction. few could boast that everyone in the family was fine... but it was far from a universal hell.
btw, this was just a few minutes walk from President Trump's boyhood home in ritzy Jamaica Estates (which his father developed).
in those bygone days of yore, a teacher or a postal worker or a cop or a painting contractor was considered middle class, and though there were artificial racial barriers like those thrown up by Fred Trump for financial reasons, pretty much the expectation was that people lived similar lives with similar incomes regardless of "race" - itself a concept that was disappearig.
that is absolutely not the reality I grew up with, where the assumption was generally that black people lived not in a parallel universe but the same world as whites, and faced the same human difficulties as everyone else for the most part. this was a lower middle class world where everyone's grandparents told tales of woe and poverty (if they made it out alive at all) and people generally had human sympathy and compasssion for their neighbors, friends, and coworkers regardless of color because we were pretty much all in the same boat, no matter how we got there. most of us had relatives with serious problems such as poverty, crime, and social disfunction. few could boast that everyone in the family was fine... but it was far from a universal hell.
btw, this was just a few minutes walk from President Trump's boyhood home in ritzy Jamaica Estates (which his father developed).
in those bygone days of yore, a teacher or a postal worker or a cop or a painting contractor was considered middle class, and though there were artificial racial barriers like those thrown up by Fred Trump for financial reasons, pretty much the expectation was that people lived similar lives with similar incomes regardless of "race" - itself a concept that was disappearig.
3
Well, if I understand correctly, the authors point is that about 20% of black people are not living in hell. The other 80% live with severely declining incomes.
While that technically supports the headline that "not all black people live in hell", 80% seems like a pretty significant portion.
While that technically supports the headline that "not all black people live in hell", 80% seems like a pretty significant portion.
7
It's been a consistently insulting outreach to black Americans. Trump still contends they reside in total war zones + in hell. His redundant comments nauseate and embarrass.
-- Bottom line: Trump immersed himself in an unforgivable birther movement against President Obama.
-- Pushed it for years, falsely claiming he had "investigators in Hawaii."
-- Pretended to personally know eminent civil rights icon Frederick Douglass, despite Douglass was living in the 1800's. Has no grasp of history. And zero historical perspectives.
-- Said during Black History Month his (sole black associate?) Ben Carson took him to urban 'black areas'...(although for years Trump always refused to let blacks rent his NYC apartments and repeatedly got sued over it.)
-- Obviously doesn't recognize blacks are very highly prominent + successful in every single field that exists and will exist. Trump is clueless.
-- He routinely sought to diminish Barack Obama as a president, demanding proof of birth and college grades, implying he was a fraud. Using that to specifically fuel white resentment---and it was obvious.
-- Trump only won this presidency in three rust belt states by less than one percent. Obama had landslides.
-- Bottom line: Trump immersed himself in an unforgivable birther movement against President Obama.
-- Pushed it for years, falsely claiming he had "investigators in Hawaii."
-- Pretended to personally know eminent civil rights icon Frederick Douglass, despite Douglass was living in the 1800's. Has no grasp of history. And zero historical perspectives.
-- Said during Black History Month his (sole black associate?) Ben Carson took him to urban 'black areas'...(although for years Trump always refused to let blacks rent his NYC apartments and repeatedly got sued over it.)
-- Obviously doesn't recognize blacks are very highly prominent + successful in every single field that exists and will exist. Trump is clueless.
-- He routinely sought to diminish Barack Obama as a president, demanding proof of birth and college grades, implying he was a fraud. Using that to specifically fuel white resentment---and it was obvious.
-- Trump only won this presidency in three rust belt states by less than one percent. Obama had landslides.
8
“Black people now inhabit all levels of the American class and occupational structure,” Elijah Anderson, a sociologist at Yale, writes..."
"They attend the best schools, pursue the professions of their choosing, and occupy various positions of power, privilege, and prestige."
Yeah right! I'm afraid that's simply not possible in a country rampant with Institutionalized Racism and White Privilege. Look it up, people, and don't be fooled by 'the facts' and 'statistics' in this article. Nice try, conservative NYTimes!
"They attend the best schools, pursue the professions of their choosing, and occupy various positions of power, privilege, and prestige."
Yeah right! I'm afraid that's simply not possible in a country rampant with Institutionalized Racism and White Privilege. Look it up, people, and don't be fooled by 'the facts' and 'statistics' in this article. Nice try, conservative NYTimes!
It's just proof that Trump reads the NY Times...
2
Strange fruit, but we may be nearing the day when rich little black boys and girls can join hands with their rich little white brothers and sisters and together grow to hate and fear the rest of America.
6
Excellent. But how about the many Blacks who ARE living in, if not hell, at least very unpleasant conditions. Take Chicago, for instance. Should we not be concerned, whether we are white or black, about this? The rich, and the middle class... that's pretty much all this country really cares about. And this article is more of the same.
10
Clearly you need to go back and re-read the article.
Like this kind of news . African American deserve it and had to work harder than whites to schieve this goal .
Hopefully this new racist administration will not boycott these gains .
Hopefully this new racist administration will not boycott these gains .
10
The headline should read "Another Trump Lie."
4
The problem with this piece is that it equates "living in hell" with being poor. The author tries to defend that black people are not "living in hell" because some black people have recently increased their wealth.
People can be poor and not be impoverished. Trump's attack is on the values and lifestyles he perceives in poor black communities and not on their wealth. Because racism.
People can be poor and not be impoverished. Trump's attack is on the values and lifestyles he perceives in poor black communities and not on their wealth. Because racism.
13
Starting from the age of 15 and up until the age of 35, the leading cause of death among black men is homicide (about 50% of all deaths).
You may think that is not a living hell but Dante labelled it as his seventh circle in the Inferno.
https://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2011/lcodblackmales2011.pdf
You may think that is not a living hell but Dante labelled it as his seventh circle in the Inferno.
https://www.cdc.gov/men/lcod/2011/lcodblackmales2011.pdf
16
These are rich people just like white rich people. So all rich people are doing better and better. Who cares?
12
Affirmative action should be based on class. it would still disproportionately help black people, but it would be much more fair to poor whites who went through a lot of adversity. It would also stop benefitting rich blacks who have more priviledge than poorer people.
22
I always like your perspective.
You're very kind.
You're very kind.
A person can have privilege in one way and lack it in another. It is still easier for a white man w/ a HS degree to get a job than a black man with a college degree. Poor white people generally have more wealth than middle-class black people. It's more complicated than it may appear on the surface.
Don't you guys know that affirmative actions law wasn't just about race? Isn't it true that women of all races have benefited handsomely from it, including white women?
In fact, some studies have shown that the group that appeared to have benefited the most from affirmative action over the last 5 decades are white women. While I can't attest to the accuracy of such studies, it's fair to say that women have made rapid progress at all levels since the law was passed. While many factors certainly contributed to such rapid progress, it sure was fueled by affirmative action (at least in the 1960s through 80s). From the initial boost in college admissions to support and attention to women owned businesses in government contracts, among others.
I'm just tired of seeing so-called well meaning whites getting upset over the 5% or so blacks on college campuses, many of whom by the way got there on merit.
I do agree of the need to reform the affirmative action to make it beneficial to those who really need it. For instance, most of the beneficiaries (besides white women) are recent black immigrants and their families (like mine), especially in area of college admissions to elite schools. I would even wager that if the data used in these studies are adjusted to carve out first and second generation black immigrants, the outcome would have been a little different.
Yes, many descendants of slavery and Jim Crow have weathered the 300-years society storms, kudos to them.
In fact, some studies have shown that the group that appeared to have benefited the most from affirmative action over the last 5 decades are white women. While I can't attest to the accuracy of such studies, it's fair to say that women have made rapid progress at all levels since the law was passed. While many factors certainly contributed to such rapid progress, it sure was fueled by affirmative action (at least in the 1960s through 80s). From the initial boost in college admissions to support and attention to women owned businesses in government contracts, among others.
I'm just tired of seeing so-called well meaning whites getting upset over the 5% or so blacks on college campuses, many of whom by the way got there on merit.
I do agree of the need to reform the affirmative action to make it beneficial to those who really need it. For instance, most of the beneficiaries (besides white women) are recent black immigrants and their families (like mine), especially in area of college admissions to elite schools. I would even wager that if the data used in these studies are adjusted to carve out first and second generation black immigrants, the outcome would have been a little different.
Yes, many descendants of slavery and Jim Crow have weathered the 300-years society storms, kudos to them.
2
Are there any rich black men who exploit fossil fuels? Please tell us about them. None,I thought so.
2
Relevance?
More importantly, are there any rich black men who work to truly improve their communities and strive to be role models?
Crickets..
Crickets..
4
What are you implying? Rich black men are above exploiting fossil fuels? If so, that would explain a lot of the lack of diversity in the upper ranks at Exxon and Chevron.
1
When I was a young civil rights activist who disowned her parents because of their blatant racism, I was certain by the time my children became adults, skin color and race designations would no longer be part of our vocabulary. I am proud to live in a community that is well-represented by all races, most of whom have lived here long enough to see their children become adults, and themselves become grandparents. We have all risen above our working class beginnings, together. This is by no means Utopia, our public schools are still poorly managed, and we still worry about our boys and young men every time a police cruiser rolls by. But is certainly isn't "hell." Some change takes a few generations, but change comes.
14
You buried the lede. The true lede is that and 8/1 ratio of white to black wealth is now a 13/1 ratio, which the vast majority of blacks slipping badly in standing as it compares to whites, who aren't doing well on average. Only those in the top quarter of earnings are making any headway, no matter the color of their skins.
9
proving... black people can count as well as white people, and read as well the writing on the wall.
the strategy of divide and conquer never gets old.
racism is encouraged as a tactic to keep down and distract those of us who must earn a living for the benefit of those who make a pile shuffling money around and really create nothing.
the strategy of divide and conquer never gets old.
racism is encouraged as a tactic to keep down and distract those of us who must earn a living for the benefit of those who make a pile shuffling money around and really create nothing.
2
No? Well, that helps explain the racial anger felt by so many whites who are. How dare they have more than I? After all, I was never considered 2/3's of a person. So unfair. Is my skin color no longer of value?
3
You are spot on . It is why so many white people came to despise the Obamas. It wasn't just money, it was class. They know they will never have what came naturally to the prez and 1st lady.
5
you start thinking of this differently when your skin was valued mainly as a lampshade.
we focus way too much on our insignificant differences and too little on what we all share in common.
we all put our pants on one leg at a time, so to speak. the rest is commentary, usually fake.
I thought we'd be pretty much over this by now, but was I ever wrong!
we focus way too much on our insignificant differences and too little on what we all share in common.
we all put our pants on one leg at a time, so to speak. the rest is commentary, usually fake.
I thought we'd be pretty much over this by now, but was I ever wrong!
Of course Trump did not literally mean "hell" but his point is well taken nonetheless.
The gist of this opinion piece's beginning few paragraphs is that blacks are upwardly mobile at a pace much faster than whites. Well of course! Whites have had a 200-300 year head start in terms of income and wealth accumulation. When the bar is already so low, blacks would obviously show much more dramatic improvements versus whites who already start higher up.
But there is more to the picture. None of that progress takes away from the very real problems facing the population. Most of this country's history is enshrined in institutionalized racism and it's going to take generations until holdover sentiments subside. Obama as President was never going to change anything for racial divisions in a few short years.
If you want a real-life example of Trump's "hell" I suggest Mr. Edsall visit the south side of Chicago or Flint. We don't have to take Trump literally to understand the point that he's trying to get across.
The gist of this opinion piece's beginning few paragraphs is that blacks are upwardly mobile at a pace much faster than whites. Well of course! Whites have had a 200-300 year head start in terms of income and wealth accumulation. When the bar is already so low, blacks would obviously show much more dramatic improvements versus whites who already start higher up.
But there is more to the picture. None of that progress takes away from the very real problems facing the population. Most of this country's history is enshrined in institutionalized racism and it's going to take generations until holdover sentiments subside. Obama as President was never going to change anything for racial divisions in a few short years.
If you want a real-life example of Trump's "hell" I suggest Mr. Edsall visit the south side of Chicago or Flint. We don't have to take Trump literally to understand the point that he's trying to get across.
7
I think the author would rather live. I highly doubt he'd go to the places Rahm Emanuel ignores.
1
If you can't jump in your nice car and drive anywhere in the country without reasonable fear that you will be stopped and harassed by 'law enforcement' or a neighborhood vigilant 'standing his ground,' then, yeah- pretty hellacious ...never mind the money...
9
Henry Louis Gates Jr. of Harvard said it best, for all of us, not just for blacks: "What we all need to strive for is a bigger middle class that’s more integrated. So we need to focus on jobs. We need a jobs bill. We need to figure out how to reform vocational education so that it produces people with the skills needed for a 21st century."
18
In general it's wise to assume - and in this case it's okay to assume - that whatever Trump says is wrong. The man knows very little about anything except how to con people and tell lies in a convincing way. Makes good fodder for columns and endless ongoing analysis I guess.
6
Mr Zoso ... moving to the South Side any time soon?
The positive statistics in this article will be read as a big negative for many alt-right trump supporters and other right wing conservatives who don't want to share this country and its opportunities with the descendants of the people who were ripped from their families and forced into slavery.
5
This is becoming standard operating procedure. Republican President, preceded by Democrat who leaves the economy in good shape, squanders economic good fortune by slashing taxes. Simultaneously gets us involved in an expensive war so people are too freaked out to ask too many questions about the tax slashing. The two together drive the economy into the ground. Then the same people who voted for the Republicans grudgingly vote for a Democratic President who spends eight years patiently digging us out of the hole, leaving us in far better economic shape. Repeat.
9
@ RGT,
Your comment will sure have its fans on this site, but I remember that Glass-Steagall was repealed by Bill Clinton and thus allowed our banks to operate like large casinos in the lead up to the financial crisis.
Furthermore, I am will not judge Barney Frank and his ilk of Democrats too kindly for using Fannie and Freddie (as quasi-public entities) to push unaffordable home ownership onto millions of poor people simply because it was a nice thing to do. Make home loans cheap for the impoverished and they will vote Democrats for years to come...That was the dream...
The economy may have blown up on GWB's watch, but Democrats had their hand in it.
Your comment will sure have its fans on this site, but I remember that Glass-Steagall was repealed by Bill Clinton and thus allowed our banks to operate like large casinos in the lead up to the financial crisis.
Furthermore, I am will not judge Barney Frank and his ilk of Democrats too kindly for using Fannie and Freddie (as quasi-public entities) to push unaffordable home ownership onto millions of poor people simply because it was a nice thing to do. Make home loans cheap for the impoverished and they will vote Democrats for years to come...That was the dream...
The economy may have blown up on GWB's watch, but Democrats had their hand in it.
6
Race and equality in America is very complicated but a major part of the solution was alluded to in this article. Education is the key. The bar may have been raised from high school to college to graduate degrees but the concept is the same. If you are better educated than those around you, you can develop the skills to be valuable and succeed.
I remember the day the richest person at my rich high school got into Stanford. Her father was a multimillionaire and her Christmas tree was 40 feet tall. She was black, but did a multi-millionaires daughter who drove a brand new car to school and lived in a mansion really deserve a full ride scholarship to Stanford? Her father could have paid for the whole $200,000 of tuition with a month or so of wages.
15
Perhaps it was a merit scholarship rather than a needs-based scholarship. My East Coast alma mater offered full-ride "Presidential scholarships" based on academic achievement regardless of need. Your envy or something else is showing.
6
I heard a bit of Elizabeth Warren's speech to the Detroit NAACP recently. She didn't make the glaring error that Trump made by assuming all black citizens are trapped in poverty in violent inner cities. But she had to walk a thin line talking about the traditional manifestations of racism that affect all black people while speaking to a roomful of solid middle class, if not higher, black activists. And they weren't at all enthusiastic about what she was saying. She received polite applause here and there but the camera showed faces that seemed cool and remote, if not bored. I'm thinking Trump would have gotten a better reception than she did. I'd like to know what they were thinking.
8
Racial bias is a tricky thing. We judge all black people by the minority who commit violent crimes. Yet most black americans are decent hard working people who just want to live their lives.
They are no different than the rest of us and when racial prejudice isn't allowed to hold them back they are just as productive if not more so than the rest of us.
They aren't the problem, we are. Our caste system is based on race and we use it to hold perfectly capable people at the bottom instead of ensuring a level playing field for anyone capable of achieving success.
They are no different than the rest of us and when racial prejudice isn't allowed to hold them back they are just as productive if not more so than the rest of us.
They aren't the problem, we are. Our caste system is based on race and we use it to hold perfectly capable people at the bottom instead of ensuring a level playing field for anyone capable of achieving success.
6
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2012/08/10/black-and-white-no-longer/
Excerpt:
The bad news, as already suggested, is that things have actually gotten worse for those blacks without such advantages—just as, by the way, they have gotten worse for whites without the resources, skills, socialization and education to stick to the mainstream. But it has been worse for poor blacks in large part because the exodus of the more successful blacks left poor blacks without economic capital and positive role models. A changing economy shed many of the once plentiful, well-paid, blue-collar jobs. The War on Poverty morphed into a war on the poor: social welfare programs yielded to a “tough love” that slashed benefits and pushed millions into homelessness and abjection, and a zero-tolerance approach to law enforcement led to the incarceration of unprecedented numbers of black men. Many of America’s cities are as racially divided as they were during the era of southern Jim Crow segregation, racial discrimination in employment and housing stubbornly persists, racial stereotypes are a staple of popular culture, and hardly a month goes by without a new race scandal to occupy the intense if fleeting attention of the mass media. Racist cops, prejudiced employers and bigoted landlords seem to have little trouble knowing whom to discriminate against. In these and many other respects racism and race seem as blatant and implacable as ever.
Excerpt:
The bad news, as already suggested, is that things have actually gotten worse for those blacks without such advantages—just as, by the way, they have gotten worse for whites without the resources, skills, socialization and education to stick to the mainstream. But it has been worse for poor blacks in large part because the exodus of the more successful blacks left poor blacks without economic capital and positive role models. A changing economy shed many of the once plentiful, well-paid, blue-collar jobs. The War on Poverty morphed into a war on the poor: social welfare programs yielded to a “tough love” that slashed benefits and pushed millions into homelessness and abjection, and a zero-tolerance approach to law enforcement led to the incarceration of unprecedented numbers of black men. Many of America’s cities are as racially divided as they were during the era of southern Jim Crow segregation, racial discrimination in employment and housing stubbornly persists, racial stereotypes are a staple of popular culture, and hardly a month goes by without a new race scandal to occupy the intense if fleeting attention of the mass media. Racist cops, prejudiced employers and bigoted landlords seem to have little trouble knowing whom to discriminate against. In these and many other respects racism and race seem as blatant and implacable as ever.
1
A welcome article about Blacks that is not a litany of pathologies! Too bad, the findings will not be widely reported by the mainstream media, because the findings contradict what that media have been saying. The findings could find wide circulation in the conservative circles though, because there, the belief has been that despite discrimination, people can move up in the US. These findings provide some vindication for that holding.
6
the problem is that ordinary people are moving down, not up. race is an hysterial side issue: this isn't about black and white, it is about green.
3
Indeed, they are not. But whether columnists and readers recognize it seems to be partisan. When the speaker aims to show the terrible burdens under which blacks suffered, the incredible callousness allegedly shown by the right, and the overwhelming guilt that whites are required to feel, black success stories really get lost in the shuffle. To borrow from Al Gore, they are an "inconvenient truth".
In point of fact, America post-Great Society has not been that bad toward blacks who managed to follow the Old Rules: don't marry early, have intact families and get an education. And those who think that blacks will remain, as a group, permanently in lockstep to the Democratic Party are kidding themselves.
In point of fact, America post-Great Society has not been that bad toward blacks who managed to follow the Old Rules: don't marry early, have intact families and get an education. And those who think that blacks will remain, as a group, permanently in lockstep to the Democratic Party are kidding themselves.
22
I think you are kidding yourself. Blacks for the most part will always be dems because they are like most Jews-- "never forget." Only the democratic party will speak up in any meaningful way for the rights of minorities, and that fact you can put in the bank.
3
Wouldn't it be nice to be free, easy and daring enough just to say: "my friend," when speaking to, or of, a person you 'know,' instead of being compelled to over-speak in using the guaranteed great limitator of: "color?"
4
Unfortunately, more wealthy blacks send their children to elite colleges now, where they are taught to "feed on" the misery of the lower 80% (of blacks). Colleges too often channel these wealthy kids into identity studies programs instead of giving them a viable, socially supportive career option. The resulting racial agitators feed the grievance industry "narrative" and fill the newspapers, but now need to be reigned in. They are not serving America well, their biased journalism has become monotonous and only increases the resentment that non-blacks feel toward blacks in general. The lower 80% are now being used as pawns by the wealthy elite (blacks)... to increase their share of the pie. It is not a fair situation and eventually it will erupt into hostility among the people.
12
I have to admit to being positively surprised by this. My wife and I are black and what most would describe as affluent. A good number of the blacks we know are also affluent, and yet we get the sense that we comprise an acutely small segment of the black community. I would have appreciated being given a better sense of perspective, i.e., how many blacks fit the income, wealth, education descriptions as put forth in this opinion piece? 250,000? 500,000?
44
@Christopher1911 --
Your estimate is, I think, very low.
I found the US Census Bureau 2010 number of blacks in the USA on Wikipedia, and using the article's income percentages (albeit 2014 numbers), there are more than 7,900,00 African Americans making over $75,000 yearly (21%), which includes almost 4,900,000 who make $100,000 or more (13%).
Using 2015 data for age by ethnicity and the article's (2016) figure of 23.9% of blacks who completed a 4-year college shows that more than 5,600,000 blacks have a BA/BS or higher.
I couldn't find any stats on the collective wealth held by African American citizens, so you are on your own there. HTH.
Your estimate is, I think, very low.
I found the US Census Bureau 2010 number of blacks in the USA on Wikipedia, and using the article's income percentages (albeit 2014 numbers), there are more than 7,900,00 African Americans making over $75,000 yearly (21%), which includes almost 4,900,000 who make $100,000 or more (13%).
Using 2015 data for age by ethnicity and the article's (2016) figure of 23.9% of blacks who completed a 4-year college shows that more than 5,600,000 blacks have a BA/BS or higher.
I couldn't find any stats on the collective wealth held by African American citizens, so you are on your own there. HTH.
5
@DDW - Surprisingly, there are no official statistics on wealth. It is all either surveys, or guessing. The IRS has some interesting guesses, but they may be way off.
2
It is a relief for you to pay attention to your senses. Too many affluent black people get defensive about the issues of those who are struggling because their tiny sliver of black america is doing well.
This article was very interesting but I do have to admit that anything that shows that blacks are making progress and that we're not all on welfare struggling ironically put us in a bad position with those whites who are in charge of making public policy. They will use this information to galvanize whites that are also struggling to oppose us instead of realizing that ALL of us could benefit if we put our heads together and make real change without using one group as scape goats. When blacks are said to be doing really well, usually said at the expense of whites-those blacks who are not doing well are going to get the short end of the stick. I know this sounds counterintuitive but I like any talk of black progress to be kept quiet.
8
An excellent analysis demonstrating why class must trump race (and other aspects of individual identity as well) if accelerated social equality is the goal.
23
Of course they are not and some other race people are living there too. Far too many minorities are living under conditions in various ways that our citizens should find unacceptable. Chicago criminal violence should be unacceptable to every citizen and they should demand action to address it.
5
What these reports and statistics tell us is that before the civil rights initiatives and affirmative action, generations of African Americans were denied their opportunities to ever have their equal and fair share of the American dream.
Moreover, the previous century of abuse and lack of opportunity before these social changes, had already set up generations of African Americans to prosper least when better opportunities for them as a whole finally arrived.
Yet despite these previous disadvantages, generational losses and institutionalised bias that have continued to afflict the welfare and potential prosperity of African Americans, in too many ways and by too many means, the limitations, prejudices and policies of today still persist and continue to harm, keep in poverty and damage the future of these Americans. From Justice served to incarcerations and broken families it has created to unfair Drug Laws Police behaviour and actions to embedded barriers to better outcomes and greater success, ongoing societal inequality and Government refusal to make greater efforts to alleviate the disparities born to, growing up against and facing to secure for their future security.
It seems that America's leaders are happy to continue running a country and a society riven by racial inequality, division, and poverty caused mostly by their actions or lack thereof.
Something that should never be acceptable or as inevitable as it seems will continue being in the richest Country of all
Moreover, the previous century of abuse and lack of opportunity before these social changes, had already set up generations of African Americans to prosper least when better opportunities for them as a whole finally arrived.
Yet despite these previous disadvantages, generational losses and institutionalised bias that have continued to afflict the welfare and potential prosperity of African Americans, in too many ways and by too many means, the limitations, prejudices and policies of today still persist and continue to harm, keep in poverty and damage the future of these Americans. From Justice served to incarcerations and broken families it has created to unfair Drug Laws Police behaviour and actions to embedded barriers to better outcomes and greater success, ongoing societal inequality and Government refusal to make greater efforts to alleviate the disparities born to, growing up against and facing to secure for their future security.
It seems that America's leaders are happy to continue running a country and a society riven by racial inequality, division, and poverty caused mostly by their actions or lack thereof.
Something that should never be acceptable or as inevitable as it seems will continue being in the richest Country of all
11
Who says black people are not "living in hell" when many hundreds kill each other in Chicago and other "sanctuary cities" every year, and the black poverty and jobless rate is many times the national average? Predictably its the Democratic party oligarchy's media propaganda arm that have also flooded our cities where many blacks live with desperate immigrants from 3rd world cultures that celebrate that discriminating against, hating and killing anyone who is from a different ethnic, racial, language, wealth class, religion is morally acceptable because your own family or tribe is all that matters. Interesting that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson actually made a big deal over the fact that we all know those wonderful, innovative immigrant businesses that give so much money to Democratic reps viciously discriminate against black people (how many blacks have you seen working in 'ethnic' businesses?). But it took only 2 days of truth telling to attract the leaders of the Hispanic Caucus and other immigrant groups, 2 days for them to grab Sharpton and Jackson by the throat and buy them off using the cover of 'let's gang up on white people' race war tactic of the Rainbow Coalition. And predictably how did that turn out? Most blacks are still in the underclass, wages killed and jobs taken by immigrants, while media mouth pieces for our 1-10% professional and business owner nobility like Edsall cover up the average bleak reality with a few cherry picked success stories.
37
You're just grumpy because O'Reilly isn't on TV anymore.
19
"Most blacks are still in the underclass, wages killed and taken by immigrants..."
That's not really true.
And by the way, you forgot to mention
'Institutionalized Racism' -- that's where the real problem starts.
That's not really true.
And by the way, you forgot to mention
'Institutionalized Racism' -- that's where the real problem starts.
18
@N.Smith: "institutional racism" is only a symptom. The real problem is still private property, always has been, and the private property owners, who created "institutional racism" to create class divisions by creating inequality and the hard feelings that creates among people: some among the non-owners - 98% of us really - are rewarded and some are not. Racism would disappear completely if all people were treated fairly - and the reason so few believe this is because they have been conditioned, by the propertied class, to believe people are just inherently bad and hate each other because of the color of their skin. It's part of the propaganda of the ownership class - and as you will note: all races are represented in the ownership class, too!
2
"Did those universities exercise racial discrimination in admissions, or was every applicant judged by the same criteria?"
There is a reason people ask this question: there is some evidence that the answer to the first part is yes and to the second part is no.
There is a reason people ask this question: there is some evidence that the answer to the first part is yes and to the second part is no.
10
Really? Then show us your evidence.
1
Look at the price! No wonder we are all going bankrupt. The young woman behind the counter laughs 'Honey, I have been bankrupt since the day I was born', causing this American to get off down from her high horse and share the laugh with a sense of unity.
Let's wait here for 'Blackmamba', one of the commentators to chime in. A grandfather now, he lives in Chicago, and the truth be told, I haven't seen a black American in over a year. Of course one might add that Mr. Edsall fumbled at letting the title of his essay read 'Not All' living in Hell.
Of course, not 'All' Black People are broke. On the subway returning from Jamaica, NY, one of the saddest days in a long life time, a man is standing addressing his depressed audience, steeped in poverty, about how Black People are their own worse enemy and eventually he gets booed. At the end of this sermon or tirade, he tells us he is going to live in a penthouse and eat steak. Now that's rich.
There are thousands, make that millions of children wandering this earth without a place to call home. For those of us who are able, global humanitarian agencies need funds. What is happening in Flint and Ferguson? Where are Black Americans today? Keeping a low-profile with immigrants, Mexicans, Jews and Muslims? Few photographs to be seen of them in the midst of this presidency. On the brink of being forgotten? We'll take care of them later? All this sounds as familiar as wonder bread.
Let's wait here for 'Blackmamba', one of the commentators to chime in. A grandfather now, he lives in Chicago, and the truth be told, I haven't seen a black American in over a year. Of course one might add that Mr. Edsall fumbled at letting the title of his essay read 'Not All' living in Hell.
Of course, not 'All' Black People are broke. On the subway returning from Jamaica, NY, one of the saddest days in a long life time, a man is standing addressing his depressed audience, steeped in poverty, about how Black People are their own worse enemy and eventually he gets booed. At the end of this sermon or tirade, he tells us he is going to live in a penthouse and eat steak. Now that's rich.
There are thousands, make that millions of children wandering this earth without a place to call home. For those of us who are able, global humanitarian agencies need funds. What is happening in Flint and Ferguson? Where are Black Americans today? Keeping a low-profile with immigrants, Mexicans, Jews and Muslims? Few photographs to be seen of them in the midst of this presidency. On the brink of being forgotten? We'll take care of them later? All this sounds as familiar as wonder bread.
5
"The conclusion I draw is that race and class both now need to be taken into account for admissions decisions. Colleges ought not to feel so proud of themselves for admitting a lot of well-to-do black students."
the panoply of complaints is endless. why don't you add the usual one that Black athletes who make millions are discriminated against when it comes to endorsements.
the US is moving away from being a society based upon merit to one based upon the color of your skin. it is one which requires quotas everywhere. notice the sudden number of Blacks increasing in supporting roles on TV. it is not based up[on talent but government pressure. by the way the same pressure to hire goes for woman financial newscasters and the ncreased number of woman suddenly being interviewed..
I don't apologize if this comment is an affront to the NYT and its readers. someone has to post a realistic picture.
the panoply of complaints is endless. why don't you add the usual one that Black athletes who make millions are discriminated against when it comes to endorsements.
the US is moving away from being a society based upon merit to one based upon the color of your skin. it is one which requires quotas everywhere. notice the sudden number of Blacks increasing in supporting roles on TV. it is not based up[on talent but government pressure. by the way the same pressure to hire goes for woman financial newscasters and the ncreased number of woman suddenly being interviewed..
I don't apologize if this comment is an affront to the NYT and its readers. someone has to post a realistic picture.
11
In other words: A small minority of blacks benefits from the system of structural, institutionalized racism called "affirmative action," but the overwhelming majority of blacks, along with everyone else, loses from "affirmative action."
18
web dubious addressed the benefits and burdens of the talented tenth decades ago. e Franklin Frazier and others began tracking the black bourgeoisie decades ago. the leaders of the black community have traditionally tho not exclusively come from the talented tenth - King, Marshall, Ellington - to name a few. glad to have the NYT pursue the topic but really, failure to cite the long history of black scholarship on the subject is inexcusable. to paraphrase dubois, we blacks know so much about you whites, but you continue to know so little of us.
7
If you missed that joke from Dave Chappelle you got to hear him say it. Black people are thankful to Mexicans and Arabs cuz they are no longer the "bad"ones in America. They have been dethroned. Dave being black himself, he can tell that joke without offending any black, or Mexican or Arab (he is Muslim too). From his mouth, this doesn't sound politically incorrect.
All through Obama's years, two high profile African Americans, Tavis Smiley and Cornel West, did not consider Obama "black enough". They ridiculed him, they criticized his every move for not helping blacks enough. What was Obama to do? He is half black, his father was no slave, he came to the country legally as a student and married a white woman. Michele Obama is a slave descendent and fits into Tavis Smiley definition.
Just looking at the Obamas, one feels emotional, pride, dignity, humanity. There's much hope for black Americans.
All through Obama's years, two high profile African Americans, Tavis Smiley and Cornel West, did not consider Obama "black enough". They ridiculed him, they criticized his every move for not helping blacks enough. What was Obama to do? He is half black, his father was no slave, he came to the country legally as a student and married a white woman. Michele Obama is a slave descendent and fits into Tavis Smiley definition.
Just looking at the Obamas, one feels emotional, pride, dignity, humanity. There's much hope for black Americans.
71
Agreed. West and Smiley pilloried Obama for not "doing enough" for blacks. This seems like plenty to me. Of course it would be wildly inaccurate to say that Obama is primarily or even largely responsible for the gains discussed in this piece, but I think we both know that had the numbers been different, people would've cited this as an example of Obama's indifference toward blacks.
5
"he came to the country legally as a student "?
Former President Obama was born in the state of Hawaii. You might have heard about it - it was in all the papers.
Former President Obama was born in the state of Hawaii. You might have heard about it - it was in all the papers.
2
GWPA, Petey said that Obama's father came to the country as a student, which is correct. He did not say Obama.
3
When I first looked at the headline of this piece, I thought it was directed at Ta-Nehisi Coates . . . rather than Trump.
2
TBE, my 1st points to the archaic USCB system for classifying us. Your use of that terminology illustrates part of the problem.
You open with "blacks" and in the next paragraph "blacks" have become African Americans. Yet leading scholar Roberts - see comment URL at end you makes very clear that she is "socially black" (seen as black) but she is NOT African American and she belongs to the only genetic "race" the human.
Some American researchers recognize three ethnicities in what the USCB sees as a black "race": 1) African-American (slave in line of descent), 2) Immigrant African-Americans and descendents (Barack Obama and father), 3) Caribbean immigrant Americans (Dorothy Roberts).
A researcher at NYU studied these groups (source not in my computer) and found that in SES terms - education, economic status, social status - there were marked differences between these three.
Thus all research that simply looks at "blacks" misses all too much of importance.
And since the sexual interactions among a vast range of ethncities in the US or even here in Sweden are so varied resulting in offspring on a continuum, the USCB system is as former USCB director Kenneth Prewitt writes, "archaic".
So why not take up this subject here, one that the NYT Newsletter Race/Related won't touch.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/opinion/black-people-are-not-all-livin...
You open with "blacks" and in the next paragraph "blacks" have become African Americans. Yet leading scholar Roberts - see comment URL at end you makes very clear that she is "socially black" (seen as black) but she is NOT African American and she belongs to the only genetic "race" the human.
Some American researchers recognize three ethnicities in what the USCB sees as a black "race": 1) African-American (slave in line of descent), 2) Immigrant African-Americans and descendents (Barack Obama and father), 3) Caribbean immigrant Americans (Dorothy Roberts).
A researcher at NYU studied these groups (source not in my computer) and found that in SES terms - education, economic status, social status - there were marked differences between these three.
Thus all research that simply looks at "blacks" misses all too much of importance.
And since the sexual interactions among a vast range of ethncities in the US or even here in Sweden are so varied resulting in offspring on a continuum, the USCB system is as former USCB director Kenneth Prewitt writes, "archaic".
So why not take up this subject here, one that the NYT Newsletter Race/Related won't touch.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/opinion/black-people-are-not-all-livin...
4
Important stuff, but a big piece missing from this analysis: marital status, which has been shown to be a strong predictor of middle-class income. Are two-parent families another key variable among blacks who achieve economic success?
15
Wow, could that question be more racist?! You're saying African-Americans are genetically inferior because they're married less?! Marriage, by the way, is nothing more than an outdated, racist, sexist vestige of America's shameful, historic repression of all its minorities, which sadly perpetuates to this day.
2
Studies show that in the USA, marriage is increasingly becoming a luxury for the well-off. This is affecting poor white people too.
Black people are canaries in the coal mine, but people don't want to listen to us until they have the same problems we have (loss of factory jobs in cities AND small towns; crack addiction followed by heroin addiction).
Black people are canaries in the coal mine, but people don't want to listen to us until they have the same problems we have (loss of factory jobs in cities AND small towns; crack addiction followed by heroin addiction).
1
One reason that blacks with less education are still mired in poverty is that they have to compete with with undocumented workers for jobs. Harvard economist George Borjas discovered that the rate of Black employment declines as the number of undocumented workers increases.
31
Black people can't win. When we succeed, display an alphabet-soup collection of degrees, work hard, raise good children, and even take pleasure in loving and being around other black people, we're still viewed with suspicion. It's typically a questioning, disbelieving look when you talk about your child working on his PhD or traveling abroad twice in one year. Your degrees, your jobs all brought to you courtesy of Affirmative Action. That house in the 'burbs? Must be acquired through some illicit means. Drug dealing or some mythological black-only government handout. I don't know how many times I've had to correct the receptionist at various doctors' offices. "No, my mother is not on city welfare." "No, my mother is not on Medicaid. She has Medicare AND Blue Cross/Blue Shield."
Americans, like the so-called president, have a very low opinion of black people and expect black people to harbor the same low opinion of themselves. Now that's the most amazing part of all.
Americans, like the so-called president, have a very low opinion of black people and expect black people to harbor the same low opinion of themselves. Now that's the most amazing part of all.
163
That is is really sad and I commend you for being strong!
2
The problem is, in my experience, the people making those assumptions tend to be liberals.
2
You don't see the irony in classifying all white folks in a manner that you find indefensible in the body of your comment?
3
Among right wingers, Trump voters, and conservatives in general, there is this bizarre perception about black people and the places they live--reinforced by segregation where they themselves live. Unfortunately, they vote with this mentality, and want to see policies to "fix" our cities by empowering police to lock up even more people.
My sister and I have just been howling with laughter over Facebook posts from a friend of hers who is from rural east TN. He is in New York City and quaking with terror as he does the usual tourist things. He has been posting that nothing bad has happened to him, despite his extreme terror--because New York City is the home of the black, brown, and terrorist people, and he thinks "those people" all want to kill him, right now! He knows it!
His only disaster so far is that while entering a public place, the metal detector went off and the police at the door took his gun away. So now he's really stressed and scared.
This man is a military veteran in his 50s, but he's been completely brainwashed by rightwing media. His Army friends, too--they are all posting comments that they are praying for him to survive his NYC ordeal without death or disfigurement.
So if y'all see a country guy from Lyndon TN up there, be sweet.
This guy consumes a steady diet of rightwing media, and this is the story he believes about black people, nonwhite people generally, and the places they live in. He thinks those who don't share this view are naive.
My sister and I have just been howling with laughter over Facebook posts from a friend of hers who is from rural east TN. He is in New York City and quaking with terror as he does the usual tourist things. He has been posting that nothing bad has happened to him, despite his extreme terror--because New York City is the home of the black, brown, and terrorist people, and he thinks "those people" all want to kill him, right now! He knows it!
His only disaster so far is that while entering a public place, the metal detector went off and the police at the door took his gun away. So now he's really stressed and scared.
This man is a military veteran in his 50s, but he's been completely brainwashed by rightwing media. His Army friends, too--they are all posting comments that they are praying for him to survive his NYC ordeal without death or disfigurement.
So if y'all see a country guy from Lyndon TN up there, be sweet.
This guy consumes a steady diet of rightwing media, and this is the story he believes about black people, nonwhite people generally, and the places they live in. He thinks those who don't share this view are naive.
6
"...the metal detector went off and the police at the door took his gun away.."
You know - from the above it is quite obvious to any New Yorker that you made this whole post up.
You know - from the above it is quite obvious to any New Yorker that you made this whole post up.
12
Ehh not so fast. the raw numbers and quantitative analysis sure look good, and why shouldn't they? I would hope there was some significant change after fifty years of affirmative action, government set asides and a liberal elite who is so wracked with guilt they will bend over backwards to attain equal outcomes, not just equal opportunity. But scratch the surface a little further and look into the quality and makeup of those Ivy league classes overflowing with newly minted black graduates (or really black matriculates which the schools promote, the graduation rates are actually far lower). What do you find? Sure many gifted and talented black students who might otherwise not have had the chance to become educated and rise to the middle class. But what you find just as if not more often are underprepared, and unmotivated students who are in over their heads. They are coddled and urged to move up regardless of will or talent until they fail or cannot perform. They are then either abandoned and left to struggle or continue to be promoted despite their lack of fitness for the challenge. Furthermore the data is skewed. the article volunteers that a very large chunk of this new middle class comes gratis of federal government, including military, hiring. What happens when that is cut back? Does this new cohort of middle class aspirants have the tools to become solo entrepreneurs and small businessmen that traditionally marked a new middle class? I suppose we shall see.
10
Yet again, other People of Color have been excluded.
About 40% of Asian Americans live in poverty, but with sooo many Asian Americans being in the upper-middle class, their skew is upwards, rendering poor Asians invisible.
For Blacks the skew is the opposite.
However, the mainstream media rarely shows Asian-American poverty while OVER-FOCUSING on poor Blacks, leading to the need for articles like this one.
Same for college classes, too.
About 40% of Asian Americans live in poverty, but with sooo many Asian Americans being in the upper-middle class, their skew is upwards, rendering poor Asians invisible.
For Blacks the skew is the opposite.
However, the mainstream media rarely shows Asian-American poverty while OVER-FOCUSING on poor Blacks, leading to the need for articles like this one.
Same for college classes, too.
23
I'm not sure what the point of this piece is, though I must say it's incited a lot of racist sentiment from the commentators. Fear of a black planet I guess. But the article, like countless articles before it, seems to suggest that it's not all bad for black folk, because look, some of them even have middle class jobs. (and , hey, our last president was black.) Its optimistic percentages, however, seem to turn on the progressive and accelerated immiseration of white folks over the past 40 years, so things don't look so bad for poor black folks, who, it turns out, comprise about 80% of the black population. So. some have made it to the suburbs while the vast majority(referred to as a "substantial portion" in the op-ed) have been left to fend off the ministrations of a de facto police state, replete with with daily humiliations, the fear of imminent incarceration and ad hoc executions. This will only get worse under Sessions and Trump and our increasingly right-wing judiciary. So, why am I reading about the fortunate few?
8
Trump is wrong, but he is merely parroting radical left-wing academics and exploitative activists like Sharpton and BLM. The likes of William Julius Wilson and Orlando Patterson, who have been pointing out the falsity of this narrative for decades, get lost amidst the angry remonstrations of know-nothings such as Ta-Nehisi Coates. Why do our news networks and papers promote the angry lies over hopeful truth? It makes them money.
5
Mr Edsall's lead sentence says it all. If Trump says African Americans face challenges in American society, than it must not be true. I am glad to read that
we have overcome racism, disproportionate poverty and all the other ills facing African Americans. Silly Trump claiming otherwise. Thomas Edsall has set him straight.
we have overcome racism, disproportionate poverty and all the other ills facing African Americans. Silly Trump claiming otherwise. Thomas Edsall has set him straight.
then why all the complaints about bad schools, bad teachers, racial discrimination, white supremacy, poor wages. The call for black lives matter.
What a joke, just go to school get an education, pay attention in class do your homework and you will be ok. Just remember in everything in life, every job, every sport, any thing you do etc. there is top .001%, top .09%, top 10% and everyone else is in the 90% we just muddle along
What a joke, just go to school get an education, pay attention in class do your homework and you will be ok. Just remember in everything in life, every job, every sport, any thing you do etc. there is top .001%, top .09%, top 10% and everyone else is in the 90% we just muddle along
19
Herbie: If education was given the priority by families (that it deserves) there is always opportunity. Don't look at the glass half empty and resign yourself to the fact that poverty is inevitable. Agreed, not everyone can be in the top ten but upward mobility is a distinct possibility for those who make the attempt.
12
Why all the complaints?!
Because various forms of discrimination still exist, not only for African Americans, but also Asian- and Latino/as-Americans and Native "Americans."
SMH.
Because various forms of discrimination still exist, not only for African Americans, but also Asian- and Latino/as-Americans and Native "Americans."
SMH.
12
Because the VAST majority of black people still suffer from those things. Also, even blacks from the middle class can find themselves UNEXPECTEDLY on the wrong side of a gun (police or otherwise). And when that happens there seems to be little sympathy, empathy, or concern, especially from a portion of the white community. Black Lives Matters (which is a peace movement, by the way) understands that.
I'm always amazed at how readily Americans (usually, though not exclusively white) are to accuse blacks of complaining (a clear criticism and generalization) as if we've reached some golden moment when they can stop thinking about slavery, Jim Crow segregation, and the legacies of both. Sad. It seems like those people are desperate to show that they are the victims and black people use race as a strategy to manipulate them. Equally stunning is the inability of those people to understand that the eagerness to say we've reached a colorblind moment when all suffering is equal is at its core biased and. . . racist.
The black middle class might be growing, but until a black person can travel from one side of the country to the other without fearing the uncertainty of every white person she or he meets, and until that is understood as a problem by so-called fair-minded, colorblind people, we will not have made much progress.
I'm always amazed at how readily Americans (usually, though not exclusively white) are to accuse blacks of complaining (a clear criticism and generalization) as if we've reached some golden moment when they can stop thinking about slavery, Jim Crow segregation, and the legacies of both. Sad. It seems like those people are desperate to show that they are the victims and black people use race as a strategy to manipulate them. Equally stunning is the inability of those people to understand that the eagerness to say we've reached a colorblind moment when all suffering is equal is at its core biased and. . . racist.
The black middle class might be growing, but until a black person can travel from one side of the country to the other without fearing the uncertainty of every white person she or he meets, and until that is understood as a problem by so-called fair-minded, colorblind people, we will not have made much progress.
21
Here we go again, further splitting American from American in this hypothetical "United" States of 'Americans'. The "demographics show," whose function is to forewarn some that the "race" to the finish line of success is a mini-war of hues, exacerbated by a deep seeded penchant (among many Americans) for comparing human bipeds on a pre-fixed scales that will remain fixed, never to be equally balanced or won... by anyone. Amazing, how we continue in our lengthy suicide mode to relish sipping in gulps, without a straw, the poisons that, regardless of hue, are served us daily and that are on course to, sooner than later, annihilate us all... and Nero fiddled?
4
Your own people were the ones who created "races" in the first place.
If you want to make things better for the working class, no matter their race there is but one word: UNION. It is the only thing that has lifted up those in the working classes and countered corporate power. If we truly want to improve the lives of all working class people, irrespective of race, we need to strengthen unions and embark on a new wave of mass unionization across the country. Unfortunately republicans have led massive attacks against unions since the 1980s.
49
Throughout history, poor Whites have always chosen ethnicity over class.
Read David Rodiger's "The Wages of Whiteness."
White talk radio has also played a huge role in the decline of unions.
Lastly:
The 1% uses the TOOLS of citizenship, class, ethnicity, gender, religious affiliation, etc., to divide-and and-conquer the 99%.
It's been working very well for them for centuries.
Read David Rodiger's "The Wages of Whiteness."
White talk radio has also played a huge role in the decline of unions.
Lastly:
The 1% uses the TOOLS of citizenship, class, ethnicity, gender, religious affiliation, etc., to divide-and and-conquer the 99%.
It's been working very well for them for centuries.
5
Unions are only effective if employers have no alternative. In the modern world, there are plenty of ways to shift jobs elsewhere if necessary. That is probably why unions are declining.
1
As a white Middle Class academic, I would agree with Edsall's statistics. My African American friends and colleagues all fit this pattern. What came to mind when reading this is what percentage of this group voted for Trump? In America at least, as income rises, conservative voting does as well. All of my black friends are as leftist as I am, but I imagine not all.
9
When I taught economics I used to tell the class the following joke about the difference between a recession and a depression. If the "other guy " is hurting we call it a recession but when we feel it we call it a depression. Yes, there have been gains for black people. But I suppose that those gaining weren't so bad off to begin with. It is those at the middle and bottom rungs who have suffered the most and continue to suffer to a greater degree than in previous generations.
17
Thank you for this article, many of us knew this to be true but are considered racist if stated this fact.
Many of these upper-class Black Americans also voted for trump with all his bigotry and hate - but wanted the economic advantage - equal opportunity for all!
Many of these upper-class Black Americans also voted for trump with all his bigotry and hate - but wanted the economic advantage - equal opportunity for all!
9
Yeah, three of them
6
So? All these numeric machinations and what does it show? The far greater proportion of the have-nots, relative to group size, are black not white. Why should there be group differences? It certainly points to the rule makers' activities.
5
My son is marrying a lovely African American woman. At Christmas, we went to her parents' house where we met about 40 of her relatives who live in San Jose, California. They are all affluent and well-educated.
18
Living in Atlanta now for 22 years, after a job transfer from New England. And in those ensuing years I can attest to the authors opinion. African Americans in Atlanta have always had a powerful presence, the Mayor, City Council, and many of the civil service positions. Over the years though the areas of the city that were dominated by the white middle class are now seeing a large minority of African Americans. There are good colleges here and they are churning out African Americans in large numbers. They get good jobs and then onward and upward.
To me it's a blessing to have such diverse demographics in the middle class. Atlanta is one great city and I am fortunate to have moved and retired here.
To me it's a blessing to have such diverse demographics in the middle class. Atlanta is one great city and I am fortunate to have moved and retired here.
18
One moral: affirmative action works, though new worries about its reinforcement of class rigidity arises.
In my 20+ years in teaching at an elite college, I have observed both things. About twenty or so years ago, many of my African American students from working-class backgrounds and poor high schools had predictable difficulties that better-prepared students didn't face. But the intelligence and curiosity of these black students got them through.
Now my African American students, a generation or so later, tend to be indistinguishable in preparation and academic polish from white students. They are middle and upper middle class and come from the same or similar high schools.
This is good but a pattern has begun to be reinforced. The students from poor high schools no longer get admitted as a result of affirmative action. The well-prepared upper-middle-class ones take those spots.
The conclusion I draw is that race and class both now need to be taken into account for admissions decisions. Colleges ought not to feel so proud of themselves for admitting a lot of well-to-do black students.
In my 20+ years in teaching at an elite college, I have observed both things. About twenty or so years ago, many of my African American students from working-class backgrounds and poor high schools had predictable difficulties that better-prepared students didn't face. But the intelligence and curiosity of these black students got them through.
Now my African American students, a generation or so later, tend to be indistinguishable in preparation and academic polish from white students. They are middle and upper middle class and come from the same or similar high schools.
This is good but a pattern has begun to be reinforced. The students from poor high schools no longer get admitted as a result of affirmative action. The well-prepared upper-middle-class ones take those spots.
The conclusion I draw is that race and class both now need to be taken into account for admissions decisions. Colleges ought not to feel so proud of themselves for admitting a lot of well-to-do black students.
173
This does not show that affirmative action works because you would have to filter out the non-affirmative-action related trends and account for the deleterious effects of affirmative action, both for minorities (yes, little professor, Mismatch exists) and the effect on the economy and other groups (fewer Asians at top schools). If you are going to suggest a utilitarian justification for this racist policy, then you better well spell out all aspects of the calculus. The Shape of the River failed miserably at this. But it is easier to pontificate from the podium than do proper statistics.
5
Not completely true. An African American woman I know well did a favor to two homeless girls, and learned they are now graduating high school, are accepted to decent universities offering them scholarships and normal housing, and have performed well at school despite the chaos of living with an addicted mom, etc. because they have received lots of support from school counselors and teachers who believe in them.
Kudos for those schools and staff who continue to encourage and assist such children, sometimes from the worst backgrounds. Call it affirmative action, or assistance to those without normative family, but in helping these students, we are helping our greater society. College funds should always be available in these situations.
Kudos for those schools and staff who continue to encourage and assist such children, sometimes from the worst backgrounds. Call it affirmative action, or assistance to those without normative family, but in helping these students, we are helping our greater society. College funds should always be available in these situations.
2
Or you know, just class?
But do these families have the other reserves that white families do when it comes to assets? The problems caused by discrimination will not vanish in one generation even if that generation is more successful than the one preceding it. Prejudice and its ugly siblings are alive and well in America.
Then again, many families, African American, white, whatever, if they are middle class or upper middle class, are losing the economic battle because the cost of living has gone up while our salaries have not kept pace.
Then again, many families, African American, white, whatever, if they are middle class or upper middle class, are losing the economic battle because the cost of living has gone up while our salaries have not kept pace.
13
The gap in average wages between white and black has remained about the same since the 70's, according the BLS data. This is a dismal record. Why is it good that inequality is increasing among blacks as well as whites?
7
Thank you Mr, Edsall for...
1) putting me in my racial pigeon hole. I am not an individual, but a ____
2) Celebrating the fact that life expectancy has begun to fall for whites (and is also plateauing in general in the US)
3) That incomes in general have been falling, so the fact that those of us who happen to be black look like they are improving in relation
Liberals are the new racists, and what a mess you make
1) putting me in my racial pigeon hole. I am not an individual, but a ____
2) Celebrating the fact that life expectancy has begun to fall for whites (and is also plateauing in general in the US)
3) That incomes in general have been falling, so the fact that those of us who happen to be black look like they are improving in relation
Liberals are the new racists, and what a mess you make
14
Whoa, whoa, whoa - did you just call Tom Edsall a liberal?
2
"Liberals are the new racists..." Probably partly true, but compared to the other side, which party would you prefer?
6
Re "the black upper middle class is ascending the economic ladder at a faster rate than its white counterpart" This is hardly surprising since the "white middle class" isn't ascending at all. If anything it is descending.
32
SO when Trump doesn't help blacks you will say he is racist. When trump helps the poor blacks that silently suffered under Obama, you call him a racist. Heads rump loses, Tails he still loses. Same nonsense you pull anytime a repub is in office. You did it with Reagan, you did it with Bush, you are now doing it with trump. Only now people are wise to the game. You leftists really need a few more strings on that shop worn banjo. Hey wasn't it wonderful when Trump recently negotiated the release of 5 aid workers that were help in an Egyptian prison?
13
If Trump really wants to help poor people, let him continue the payments for cost-sharing reductions in the ACA.
And back health care reform that doesn't cut Medicaid.
And come up with a budget that doesn't drastically cut various social services.
Etc. etc. ...
And back health care reform that doesn't cut Medicaid.
And come up with a budget that doesn't drastically cut various social services.
Etc. etc. ...
24
When did he helped poor blacks? When did he help poor "anybody"?
9
"Newly elected black mayors in cities like Detroit and Cleveland faced diminished resources,.. etc etc ."
Busing for the purposes of school desegregation contributed to the decay of Detroit's public school system. People who had the means either sent their children to private schools or move out to the suburbs. And no Edsall, the increase and crime and violence was not just a "perceived" problem. It was real.
When crime and racial violence became so bad that my family and I moved out of Detroit I wondered if the then current administration of Detroit would be held responsible for the state of the city. But then the problems of the city were blamed on us for moving out - all part of that liberal perpetual motion guilt machine.
Now we are in the midst of the progressive's globalization where off-shoring, out-sourcing and importing are the legs on which Hillary's new world stands (along with the minimum wage). We also have the NY Times and Krugman touting the new economy based on retail workers. Folks like Edsall will keep busy spinning new culprits (generally in the white lower and lower middle class) as the reason for the existence of the African-American underclass.
And I just saw a rusting pickup truck yesterday with the bumper sticker: "Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign." A perspective that is deemed xenophobic, regressive at least a bit racist and deplorable by the Democratic Party leadership.
C'mon Edsall you can put the pieces together if you try...
Busing for the purposes of school desegregation contributed to the decay of Detroit's public school system. People who had the means either sent their children to private schools or move out to the suburbs. And no Edsall, the increase and crime and violence was not just a "perceived" problem. It was real.
When crime and racial violence became so bad that my family and I moved out of Detroit I wondered if the then current administration of Detroit would be held responsible for the state of the city. But then the problems of the city were blamed on us for moving out - all part of that liberal perpetual motion guilt machine.
Now we are in the midst of the progressive's globalization where off-shoring, out-sourcing and importing are the legs on which Hillary's new world stands (along with the minimum wage). We also have the NY Times and Krugman touting the new economy based on retail workers. Folks like Edsall will keep busy spinning new culprits (generally in the white lower and lower middle class) as the reason for the existence of the African-American underclass.
And I just saw a rusting pickup truck yesterday with the bumper sticker: "Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign." A perspective that is deemed xenophobic, regressive at least a bit racist and deplorable by the Democratic Party leadership.
C'mon Edsall you can put the pieces together if you try...
17
Exactly.
3
All right, everybody, you know the words. Ready? 1, 2...
Movin' on up...
In a Black Lives Matter era, it's nice to recall a time when it was about empowerment, not victimhood.
Movin' on up...
In a Black Lives Matter era, it's nice to recall a time when it was about empowerment, not victimhood.
7
Here is my takeaway from Mr. Edsall's column: once they break through the glass ceiling, the sky is the limit for African-Americans. That's a good thing.
Here's the bad thing for African-Americans: breaking through the glass ceiling in the first place.
Here's the bad thing for African-Americans: breaking through the glass ceiling in the first place.
21
Is this column aimed at Trump,or Charles Blow and the NYT editorial board?
5
It's aimed at us - the readers - laying out evidence which refutes stereotypes, while showing how our problems are expressed economically. The rapid climb of some suggests that past severe discrimination in the history of the US was destroying a large pool of talented people, who now have an opportunity to use their skills.
4
Hooray for the rise of the affluent African-Americans!
Now they must not shrink into the shadows for fear of being noticed by the straw-boss who will want to remind them of "their place".
They must stand with their black brothers and sisters and progressive whites to correct the big difference in ABSOLUTE wealth and income.
They must avoid the Ben Carson Syndrome: "I made it. If you would just work harder and ...(add your favorite cliche about black people), you could, too."
Now they must not shrink into the shadows for fear of being noticed by the straw-boss who will want to remind them of "their place".
They must stand with their black brothers and sisters and progressive whites to correct the big difference in ABSOLUTE wealth and income.
They must avoid the Ben Carson Syndrome: "I made it. If you would just work harder and ...(add your favorite cliche about black people), you could, too."
14
Well, what do you suggest? If you want to make money, study hard and work hard. If you want to have wealth, save money and invest.
That's the 99% of it. The US is a highly competitive society, and you have to make your own way.
That's the 99% of it. The US is a highly competitive society, and you have to make your own way.
2
Jonathan: I suggest 1)being born white 2)being born to middle class families or better 3)going to good schools
No matter how much you deny it, blacks are not given equal opportunities for the most part. Their schools are under-funded, they are discriminated against in jobs, voting. Cops stop blacks for petty offenses twice as often as whites. Just look at the hatred expressed at Obama....and he was a well-dressed, eloquent, highly intelligent........black......man
No matter how much you deny it, blacks are not given equal opportunities for the most part. Their schools are under-funded, they are discriminated against in jobs, voting. Cops stop blacks for petty offenses twice as often as whites. Just look at the hatred expressed at Obama....and he was a well-dressed, eloquent, highly intelligent........black......man
If this is true then let's back off affirmative action. Why should anyone receive special treatment to ascend faster than anyone else. Go on your own merits.
14
Which would also help those people in "under-represented minorities" who achieved their success without affirmative action.
The top schools give many degrees to blacks, but everyone looks at them as illegitimate degrees, because we all know the bulk of them wouldn't have even been admitted had they been white.
Same for doctors, lawyers, etc
Which is unfair to those blacks who achieved these degrees purely on merit.
The top schools give many degrees to blacks, but everyone looks at them as illegitimate degrees, because we all know the bulk of them wouldn't have even been admitted had they been white.
Same for doctors, lawyers, etc
Which is unfair to those blacks who achieved these degrees purely on merit.
3
You chose examples of careers that require additional testing in addition to schooling. How is a M.D. illegitimate after passing board exams, or a J.D. after passing the bar exam?
I'm 65 years old. I've lived, mostly, in NYC and Atlanta. I can count on one hand the instances of affirmative action I've seen. I can't count the number of racist words and actions I've witnessed.
Next question?
Next question?
11
The legacy of humanity personhood denying African enslavement and equality defying African Jim Crow involving a physically identifiable colored American minority is that caste and class are inextricably intertwined by white supremacist benign neglect and white racist prejudiced malign intent.
When Dr. King was murdered he was planning a Poor People's Campaign in Washington D.C. where he hoped to unite Americans across mutual socioeconomic educational class lines instead of dividing them across "racially" colored caste lines. History has proven that Dr. King was as naïve as Barack Obama about the enduring evil appeal of 'race' and 'color' over class for the a majority of white Americans.
Along every socioeconomic educational metric black people lag behind their white peers. And white people prefer to live in a community of white people. Black folks have no choice but to live primarily among their own or as a tiny minority. Rich white people can avoid poor white people. Blacks have never had that luxury nor choice.
The assumption that living among a majority of white people in the suburbs or among the black middle class removes you from a hellish life is the epitome expression of white supremacist mythology. Barack Obama looks like Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis and Tamir Rice. And he could have shared their fate.
See 'Between The World and Me' Ta'Nehisi Coates; "Dog Whistle Politics' Ian Haney Lopez; 'The Mis-education of the Negro' Carter Woodson
When Dr. King was murdered he was planning a Poor People's Campaign in Washington D.C. where he hoped to unite Americans across mutual socioeconomic educational class lines instead of dividing them across "racially" colored caste lines. History has proven that Dr. King was as naïve as Barack Obama about the enduring evil appeal of 'race' and 'color' over class for the a majority of white Americans.
Along every socioeconomic educational metric black people lag behind their white peers. And white people prefer to live in a community of white people. Black folks have no choice but to live primarily among their own or as a tiny minority. Rich white people can avoid poor white people. Blacks have never had that luxury nor choice.
The assumption that living among a majority of white people in the suburbs or among the black middle class removes you from a hellish life is the epitome expression of white supremacist mythology. Barack Obama looks like Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis and Tamir Rice. And he could have shared their fate.
See 'Between The World and Me' Ta'Nehisi Coates; "Dog Whistle Politics' Ian Haney Lopez; 'The Mis-education of the Negro' Carter Woodson
16
Maybe so, but rich is still better, and a lot easier, than poor.
That was election rhetoric. Obviously not true. Trump upended /disrupted politics by using a World Wrestling Vince McMahon bully approach and the weak republicans and Clinton got stomped, body slammed ,and put in a sleeper hold.Combine wrestling bad guy approach with. Twitter,and you have...President Trump. If we believer everything politicians said ,you'd think we ate bosom buddies with Iran....(obama,Iran,same thing..)
3
I think the entire narrative of color/race in this country is overblown, and to an extent, nonexistent.
Everyone in this country is free to educate themselves and climb up the corporate ladder based on their own merit, ability and motivation. Every day I deal with every type of color, all of whom have excelled and are successful.
If you want to sit around, not educate yourself I don't really feel the drive to do much, you're going to be poor and you're probably going to complain about all that you don't have when you see all the people that do work hard rolling past you and BMWs.
It is all about pulling up your own bootstraps, it's not the governments fault, or anyone else's for that matter, if you haven't succeeded.
Every person pointing the finger at someone else has four others pointing back at himself.
Live it!
Everyone in this country is free to educate themselves and climb up the corporate ladder based on their own merit, ability and motivation. Every day I deal with every type of color, all of whom have excelled and are successful.
If you want to sit around, not educate yourself I don't really feel the drive to do much, you're going to be poor and you're probably going to complain about all that you don't have when you see all the people that do work hard rolling past you and BMWs.
It is all about pulling up your own bootstraps, it's not the governments fault, or anyone else's for that matter, if you haven't succeeded.
Every person pointing the finger at someone else has four others pointing back at himself.
Live it!
9
And a larger point - Donald Trump nor any of his cronies would even know any African Americans who are "living in hell" let alone care.
22
No, not all black people are "living in Hell". No one ever alluded that all blacks did.
This article does a nice job at grinding its ax on cherry-picked statistics.
Visit the south and west sides of Chicago sometime. The very families who could be most helped by school choice are ball-and-chained to failing schools that the teachers' union demand they rot in. Crime is out of control. There have been over 1000 shootings this year alone, mainly in the south and west sides.
Tell those people they are not living in Hell. Let's find out how many of them were included in that 'quadrupled' statistic of making $100,000 or more.
Let's all feel better about ourselves now.
This article does a nice job at grinding its ax on cherry-picked statistics.
Visit the south and west sides of Chicago sometime. The very families who could be most helped by school choice are ball-and-chained to failing schools that the teachers' union demand they rot in. Crime is out of control. There have been over 1000 shootings this year alone, mainly in the south and west sides.
Tell those people they are not living in Hell. Let's find out how many of them were included in that 'quadrupled' statistic of making $100,000 or more.
Let's all feel better about ourselves now.
13
Great comment. It's tiring to see journalists keep trotting out Prince George's county as a prime example of how African Americans are thriving. A lot of the residents in Prince George's county are employees of the federal government. If there's a RIF, there would be a lot of hurt in that area. Plus, a lot of the residents were affected by the recession and lost their homes. And your comment on Chicago is spot on. I know many African American families who sacrifice everything to send their kids to private schools rather than the public schools in their neighborhoods.
5
MC312, you missed the whole point of the article, which is that a lot more black people are doing a lot better these days. Much of it is also precisely about the fact that many are not, and some of the economic and structural reasons for that. The people who are doing so well these days probably did not get there by shooting each other and committing out of control crime.
2
The message of "living in hell" was for the Donald Trump's voting base who really do not know their African American history and certainly do not know the current status of minorities living in this country.
This article is great because it has numbers to back up what Edsall is writing about.
This article is great because it has numbers to back up what Edsall is writing about.
3
So which is it? Blacks are doing okay or Blacks are disenfranchised and it's all because of White Privilege. The Left has spent the past two years blaming whites for the hell Blacks are in, and as soon as a Republican white says they are in hell, he doesn't know what he is talking about. I understand the author's point, but there is a conflicting message out there.
23
There's an easy answer to this: Individually, some black people are prospering, while many others are not. As a whole, while Black Americans are doing better than they were years ago, but their condition and gains are steadily decreasing in comparison to Whites.
12
The problem is the exaggeration involved. It denies people their dignity and a recognition of what they have achieved.
Trump talked about upstate New York in similarly apocalyptic terms, during the campaign. He described it as a terrain of ghost towns.
And it did feel like an insult. We are certainly not ghosts here; life goes on and it isn't hell.
Trump talked about upstate New York in similarly apocalyptic terms, during the campaign. He described it as a terrain of ghost towns.
And it did feel like an insult. We are certainly not ghosts here; life goes on and it isn't hell.
44
Well, duh. But, there are always different versions of hell, even for the
" comfortable ". Just check MY address. Seriously.
" comfortable ". Just check MY address. Seriously.
9
As someone who lived in Wichita for four months, I must agree. You have my sympathy.
2
Fifteen years, girl. As I remind the husband, daily. Lol.
3
I have a feeling that African-Americans who are middle class or wealthier are more likely to have working class or poor relatives, including extended family members, compared to white Americans of similar incomes. This creates significant differences, such as giving money to relatives vs. receiving down payment, college, and wedding expense help common to other groups. Does anyone know of studies regarding this topic?
8
I have not seen a study, but anecdotally, it's certainly true. For me. For my husband. And for others that we know. No one saved for our college. No one "gifted" us help with a down payment. There was no one to pay for our weddings, but ourselves. In fact, we paid for the wedding and PAID for our family's travel so they could be there. I'm not complaining. That was all money well spent as far as I'm concerned, but between undergrad, grad school, house, wedding, I'd say we're wealth-wise at least $200k behind our peers who make similar incomes. . . . but we're catching up. = )
1
I suspected as much myself. This may account for the gap in wealth, since if you're always helping your relatives, you won't be able to put as much into savings.
Let's not be fooled by the relative success of the top 5% of Black households. The net worth of White households remains 13 times greater than that of Black households. There is still a lot to be done to promote an equitable society.
17
I applaud the NYT for writing stories that shine a light on individuals and institutions that are doing the right thing on the social justice front. Although it is not in Trump's worldview or vocabulary, he could soften the already sharp edges of his administration, by talking about institutions that are doing the right thing and asking for even more to step up to the plate. But, Trump, is incapable of these kinds of comments because it would violate the stereotypes that guide all of his thinking or the lack thereof.
4
In spite of the marvel, financially speaking, of the "Michael Jordan's " of this world, the majority of black folks are still at a disadvantage because of institutional discrimination. And it starts early, as the inequality brings glaring inequities in job acquisition, in starting proper education/schooling early, and in housing' disadvantaged locations. If government's job is to provide not only a social safety net for those left behind, but to try to fill the needs of all and everyone of us, according to real politics (the art of the possible), why is it we are always left 'wanting'? As if we needed a reminder of our commitment to society, of which we are part of, 'there cannot be a chain stronger than its weakest link'.
4
So, please explain this to me.
Your chart shows that black women live longer than white males, and much longer than black males.
But most of the studies you cite only measure the graduation rates, employment rates, and success of men.
So how are these women living so strongly? Many of them are independently responsible for raising children. Why do your studies tend to ignore them?
Your chart shows that black women live longer than white males, and much longer than black males.
But most of the studies you cite only measure the graduation rates, employment rates, and success of men.
So how are these women living so strongly? Many of them are independently responsible for raising children. Why do your studies tend to ignore them?
5
The path to the upper middle class is pretty straight-forward, as these studies appear to show.
1. Have two parent families willing to defer their immediate self gratification in order to guide their children through life's learning process.
2. Nurture learning skills with emphasis on learning to read, reading to learn, learning to think and thinking to apply.
3. Work hard at school to acquire STEM skills while retaining your ability to articulate abstract issues into concrete outcomes.
4. Know the difference between right and wrong and live accordingly.
5. Save and invest every year of your working life.
6. Marry, have children, remember those whose example guided you along the path you've chosen and not only emulate their guidance, but build on it.
7. Internalize that much of life is a the equivalent of cosmic poker game wherein you need to survive runs of bad luck.
8. Ignore those who mock your accomplishments; focus on the prize.
Yeah, I know, it doesn't happen for everyone and not everyone is lucky to have a safe, loving family or people around them who care. Such is the law of big numbers. Don't let the haters or the mockers become an excuse for giving up.
1. Have two parent families willing to defer their immediate self gratification in order to guide their children through life's learning process.
2. Nurture learning skills with emphasis on learning to read, reading to learn, learning to think and thinking to apply.
3. Work hard at school to acquire STEM skills while retaining your ability to articulate abstract issues into concrete outcomes.
4. Know the difference between right and wrong and live accordingly.
5. Save and invest every year of your working life.
6. Marry, have children, remember those whose example guided you along the path you've chosen and not only emulate their guidance, but build on it.
7. Internalize that much of life is a the equivalent of cosmic poker game wherein you need to survive runs of bad luck.
8. Ignore those who mock your accomplishments; focus on the prize.
Yeah, I know, it doesn't happen for everyone and not everyone is lucky to have a safe, loving family or people around them who care. Such is the law of big numbers. Don't let the haters or the mockers become an excuse for giving up.
18
It is my opinion that historians will look back one day at the last 200 years in our society and determine that discrimination is the reason we failed as a society. However, the discrimination wont be race, religion or gender...class discrimination is the main destroyer.
7
These truths don't fit with Donald Trump's narrative--or maybe they do. His campaign sowed the seeds of resentment of the "other." And he clearly had a problem with well-educated Obama, so much so that he insisted Obama was not American and received special considerations to graduate from Ivy League schools. It's not shocking that the black middle-class has grown. It's surprising that it continues to grow in spite of people like President Trump who has said he doesn't think black people have the same intellectual capacity as white people.
9
In 1960 the out-of-wedlock birthrate was ~5.3% and now it's ~41%; ~72% for blacks. Children born out-of-wedlock and/or raised by single-parents have worse stats across-the-board re. crime, substance-abuse, dropping out of school and becoming teen-parents themselves. Imagine how much poverty could be eliminated if women would commit to not having a child with a man that they aren't married to and if men would commit to taking responsibility for the children that they bring into this world.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenag...®ion=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=1
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenag...®ion=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&_r=1
5
Committed, two-parent households are indeed good for kids, but insisting upon an archaic convention like marriage reeks of religion. No good can come of that.
2
I noticed most especially Mr. Edsall's mention of the distinction between earnings and wealth. Two things I most wish: that there would be a better understanding of what it takes to build inheritable wealth and the sacrifice that takes for multiple generations of the same family and two: that the upper 10% of financially endowed blacks put more effort in seeing to it that the rest of our Black cohort was supported with non-tangible assets that make it possible to lift themselves and their children up. I look forward to reading Dr. Anderson's book and what, if anything, he might have to say about the Dixwell community in New Haven, CT.
1
People are free to live their lives as they please, but a distinct factor that inhibits economic progress of African-Americans is that the higher a man's earnings and wealth, the more likely he marries someone from a different ethnicity, which halts the intergenerational transfer of wealth to people who identify as Black, and reduces the odds of his descendants contributing to Black causes and institutions.
So if you start in the bottom twenty percent of income and those above you stay where they are, then when you get an increase in income, even when it is below your white counterparts whose income is stagnating, we can claim that you have improved your situation faster than they have. Wow. Such deep thought -- NOT.
2
When all the stats are done, you are showing that black "gain" numbers are higher because they are playing catchup: higher differentials due to lower starting points. Good news, but not yet a win.
9
well, of course. some things have changed, all it takes is opportunity...but, however many african-american households advance, those left in so-called inner cities where living conditions are indeed hellish and a pronounced lack of opportunity, (signaled by inferior schools and the hungry kids in them), speaks to the disgraceful neglect that practically guarantees their continued existence...the same for the reservations, the concentration camps, that confine the survivors of the original tribes, nearly exterminated by a government supported genocide.
it is the things that have not changed that deserve, demand, our attention and diligent effrot, if we are to be the society we claim to be, and until we do act, we are no better than the "sunday righteous who, for the other six days, are liars and hypocrites," to borrow a phrase.
it is the things that have not changed that deserve, demand, our attention and diligent effrot, if we are to be the society we claim to be, and until we do act, we are no better than the "sunday righteous who, for the other six days, are liars and hypocrites," to borrow a phrase.
2
Yes, there are affluent black people. But what percent of them are immigrants, who came here for advanced education? Also how many of these affluent black people come from long-time successful communities or racially mixed communities? It is hard to move up from the bottom two fifths who often live in isolation greater than white people of the same income.
Mr. Edsall's marvelous and timely piece stands as the most effective counterpoint to the ridiculous Trump campaign line about the horrors of the Black Inner City that I have read to-date. Yet it can only speculate about the "explosive mix" in the Black community that it (the article) vaguely suggests "will find...expression in the political system" in parallel to the "class upheaval within the Republican Party" that was on display during the 2016 Presidential race. All of which calls to mind the old truism that no one in politics can predict the politics of the future, and I would add to that a truism that the media can only cover history as it is happening, rather than history in its true objective setting, with the distance of years.
Still it is refreshing to learn of the breakout within the Black middle class and to be reminded of what no one who is a member of this community, or its friend, can forget or ignore, namely "the specter of the urban ghetto." Chilling words indeed.
Still it is refreshing to learn of the breakout within the Black middle class and to be reminded of what no one who is a member of this community, or its friend, can forget or ignore, namely "the specter of the urban ghetto." Chilling words indeed.
4
The incendiary headline and lead sentence are completely irrelevant to the point of the article. Trump's comments were about the inner city ghettos, where violence, unemployment, drug trafficking, and overall blight, heap hopelessness over those populations. Interestingly, these cities are overwhelmingly governed by democrats. Corruption anyone? I'm not a Trump fan in anyway, but some of his points, even if indelicately stated, are spot on. There is no good reason why those who govern can't solve these issues. Education and jobs solves the fundamental problems. It can be done in the inner city, and in poor rural areas as well, if only the politicians on both sides weren't corrupt, and cared about their constituents more than they care about themselves. Watching the daily sniping on TV news indicates we have a long way to go.
42
You make it clear that, like Trump, you know nothing about what you call "inner cities." Nothing about cities, nothing. Any of us who actually live in cities know that you know nothing. And advice: don't write "I'm not a Trump fan...but" Immediately I know who you are and whom you voted for.
2
You might think #45 was talking about particular populations that live in poverty in urban areas and are Black. I cannot say with any certainty that HE thinks that was what he meant - when he thinks of Black people, my guess is that he thinks of poor, urban, under or un employed Black men who have addiction issues. That does not even begin to describe all the Black people (of any gender) who live in urban areas or anywhere else. That was one reason his remarks were so completely insulting.
1
Except this was the only context in which Trump mentioned black people. He ignored the black middle and upper class. And if he cares, why hasn't he done anything about it? He sure has plenty of time to golf and tweet.
I will never understand how comes poor minorities go to the streets to protest for evil cops but never for high education tuition and health care costs. Improving those will solve the first one as discrimination can not be in such a scale against middle class. Solving the police discrimination but staying economically under the poverty line will raise the first issue again.
2
Do you not know history? Are you not aware of the struggles in the 1950s and 60s just to gain access to better funded white schools and the violent protests by whites in the 1970s against busing minority students to better-performing school districts? More recently, parents, students, and teachers have protested in NY against cuts in education funding that have resulted in larger class sizes, as well as for and against charter schools. Education is indeed a topic that "poor minorities" take seriously.
Sorry, but your glib dismissal of "poor minorities" displays an abject lack of knowledge.
Sorry, but your glib dismissal of "poor minorities" displays an abject lack of knowledge.
9
The protests for better education and better health care happen all the time. They just don't make the six o'clock news and you haven't been paying attention to what's happening around you.
One thing I've noticed over the years among those of my age strikes me as being part of the problem concerning people of color.
During the segregation years in the South, there was 'whites only' in every aspect of culture.
But, even if the blacks in the North didn't have to sit in the back of the bus, prejudice and racism were not lacking.
Then, the Civil Rights movement, voting rights, demands for the right to attend colleges and universities, a decent attempt at leveling the field with affirmative action, and the slow but sure increase of blacks being brought to the front in movies, TV programs, models in ads, and, suddenly, people of my age think that blacks have equal or, in some cases, better than equal to lives by whites.
We then need to latch on to those blacks that haven't made it out of poverty, while only when forced by the media or a huge disruption to acknowledge the deep poverty and lack in the white class.
During the segregation years in the South, there was 'whites only' in every aspect of culture.
But, even if the blacks in the North didn't have to sit in the back of the bus, prejudice and racism were not lacking.
Then, the Civil Rights movement, voting rights, demands for the right to attend colleges and universities, a decent attempt at leveling the field with affirmative action, and the slow but sure increase of blacks being brought to the front in movies, TV programs, models in ads, and, suddenly, people of my age think that blacks have equal or, in some cases, better than equal to lives by whites.
We then need to latch on to those blacks that haven't made it out of poverty, while only when forced by the media or a huge disruption to acknowledge the deep poverty and lack in the white class.
As a member of a racially integrated family, I struggle to see the relevance (to my kin) of Edsall's analysis, since his categories of humanity do not apply to me. Where, for example, does Barrack Obama fit into this assortment of statistics?
Are the (apparently) black members of my family being artificially teased out to fill in the blanks in these studies? Or are they just missing?
Are the (apparently) black members of my family being artificially teased out to fill in the blanks in these studies? Or are they just missing?
1
Those whose are often Black, but mixed race, tend to often still identify as black and note as such on census data - which means people like your family members and Barack Obama are very much likely to be included in this study.
2
I'm not at all sure the count of blacks in the surveys cited comes from the US census.
This rosy picture of black ascendancy wouldn't be recognized by any of the black people living in my neighborhood in west Detroit. Here success for blacks often means your application for social security disability benefits got approved or you won some pittance at the lottery. Successful blacks most often move out of the hood if they are so blessed with a future, and they rarely, if ever, look back to the poverty they left behind. Unfortunately, that leaves a whole host of unemployed welfare dependents in their wake with no one for youth to look up to except maybe the local scrapper who just plundered some neighborhood houses for radiators, electrical panels and copper wiring. Single motherhood and its inherent poverty is rampant, crime is everywhere and the future can be looked at as moving to that block over there that the arsonists haven't gotten to yet.
6
This is an interesting article, but I for one am not ready to break out the champagne yet. As the author notes, "...the gap in average wealth among all blacks compared to all whites has worsened..." Net worth is a far more accurate indicator of economic prosperity than income, yet it receives scant attention in this article. I would also guess that most affluent blacks live in expensive urban areas, so that high incomes are offset by high living costs more than is the case for whites. Additionally, in order to achieve high educational levels many blacks send their kids to expensive private schools, paying a large share of their incomes in tuition, whereas many whites have access to high quality public schools in mostly white suburban areas.
Finally, the author completely ignores the continued existence of racism in American society. Blacks at all income levels are more likely to live in segregated communities, and are more likely to worry about their kids being the targets of police harassment and violence.
Finally, the author completely ignores the continued existence of racism in American society. Blacks at all income levels are more likely to live in segregated communities, and are more likely to worry about their kids being the targets of police harassment and violence.
68
Racism - yes. Higher living expenses? Meh. Rich white people live in expensive suburbs and send their kids to private schools too. It's just that many rich whites already have family money, not just six figure incomes.
It'd be progressive to begin to look beyond race alone and start concentrating more on class issues. It is class more than anything that keeps most people back, behind or in generational poverty. By keeping the poor separated by race doesn't close the class chasm by a mile. In fact keeping people fighting over race doesn't address the wealth discrepancies. Which have never been so wide in human history according to Thomas Piketty and others. But the NYT and other MSM likes to keep the race issue burning while avoiding the class subject and all of its inequalities altogether. There are millions of white and black children living in extreme poverty in the wealthiest nation ever in the history of the world. It is a most certain crime against humanity.
5
Black, White, Yellow. Who cares? Are these people not Americans?
Blacks "gaining" on Whites is called reversion to the mean, something discovered a couple of centuries ago.
If this nation started focusing its policy on Americans, rather than hyphenated voting blocs, we might make real intelligent decisions in the area of socioeconomic policy.
Blacks "gaining" on Whites is called reversion to the mean, something discovered a couple of centuries ago.
If this nation started focusing its policy on Americans, rather than hyphenated voting blocs, we might make real intelligent decisions in the area of socioeconomic policy.
6
Thomas, your column gives you all the reason in the world to be the first NYT writer to bring the thinking of Kenneth Prewitt and Dorothy Roberts out into the open perhaps by posing these two questions of mine in your own formuilations:
What if we implemented Prewitt's proposal (Ch. 11 What Is Your Race?) to end use of USCB's archaic system of classifying and classified people by "race" and describe them instead entirely in terms of SES variables - education, economy, etc?
And what if the American Medical establishment listened to Dorothy Roberts' TED talk and eliminated the use of the crudest variable ever known, "race"?
Dorothy Roberts makes crystal clear the fallacy of the American race system when she says "I am socially black, NOT African American, and member of the only (genetically defined) race, the human."
Then you, perhaps best qualified of Times writers could write about groups of people using SES language and perhaps, just perhaps, referring to lines of descent or ethnicities. I will myself copy your article to see how I might answer my questions.
We need a new language;perhaps you might begin to examine that need here.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
What if we implemented Prewitt's proposal (Ch. 11 What Is Your Race?) to end use of USCB's archaic system of classifying and classified people by "race" and describe them instead entirely in terms of SES variables - education, economy, etc?
And what if the American Medical establishment listened to Dorothy Roberts' TED talk and eliminated the use of the crudest variable ever known, "race"?
Dorothy Roberts makes crystal clear the fallacy of the American race system when she says "I am socially black, NOT African American, and member of the only (genetically defined) race, the human."
Then you, perhaps best qualified of Times writers could write about groups of people using SES language and perhaps, just perhaps, referring to lines of descent or ethnicities. I will myself copy your article to see how I might answer my questions.
We need a new language;perhaps you might begin to examine that need here.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
2
They say the rising tide floats all boats. The ebbing tide grounds them. African American educational and economic gains are great news! However, as with Reconstruction and Voting Rights the white backlash is inevitable. That backlash is headed by Trump. The immediate damage to the working and middle classes is obvious, but the insidious damage to all will be from De Vos and the rumination of public education. We already can't field enough bright minds to meet the demands of technology. Brilliant immigrants are imported (and later disdained) instead. How many such minds could potentially be developed from the African American community? America doesn't care for cultural reasons. Fortunately, we blacks are unrelenting in our quest for equality. Conversely, it is possible for both blacks and whites to benefit and advance but the 1% sees opportunity in keeping us at odds.
This is a tricky intersection of race and class in America. The 'trick' is to not to confuse one with the other. If black advancement triggers white repressive repercussions, its only relative advancement. When disadvantaged whites get treated like blacks, you get Trump. All we all really want is a job and a decent place to live. Is that heresy?
This is a tricky intersection of race and class in America. The 'trick' is to not to confuse one with the other. If black advancement triggers white repressive repercussions, its only relative advancement. When disadvantaged whites get treated like blacks, you get Trump. All we all really want is a job and a decent place to live. Is that heresy?
5
I must be missing the point of this article for it reminds me of people who say’ some of my best friends are Black people’. Sure, there are black people who have reached the upper classes in American society. There are superstars of sports. music and other endeavors who are black. The Black folks who have made it are not the norm and they should not be showcased to prove Black life is not that tough in America. Tell the people of Chicago who are afraid to walk the streets that their life is normal. Tell the families of people devastated by the drug epidemic of 70’s,80’s.90’s that suddenly since drugs have moved into white communities that we have become a kinder and gentler nation. When crack was devastating communities of color Americas answer was to build more prisons. Now that drugs are killing white people in unprecedented numbers Americas answer is compassion and treatment. The ways to claw your way out of the despair of so many people of color communities are so steep that few make it. So, to write about how things are not that bad for Black Folks is disingenuous and insulting. It just says we can’t believe what our lying eyes are telling us.
9
"the black upper middle class is ascending the economic ladder at a faster rate than its white counterpart".
I think when one starts at below the floor it would be easy to to get some rosy stats.
I am totally with you, concerning Trump's simplistic assertions.
Yet, I contend that this country maintains a soft apartheid system.
Cook county is one of our wealthiest counties endowed with one of our largest concentrations of poverty.
Mayor Rahm just declared that for a student to got a CPS High School Diploma, the candidate must have: a letter of acceptance to college, or a job lined up, or be signed up to the military. (both he and his predecessor used the military solution with enthusiasm..) No gap year for these kids.
I think when one starts at below the floor it would be easy to to get some rosy stats.
I am totally with you, concerning Trump's simplistic assertions.
Yet, I contend that this country maintains a soft apartheid system.
Cook county is one of our wealthiest counties endowed with one of our largest concentrations of poverty.
Mayor Rahm just declared that for a student to got a CPS High School Diploma, the candidate must have: a letter of acceptance to college, or a job lined up, or be signed up to the military. (both he and his predecessor used the military solution with enthusiasm..) No gap year for these kids.
3
Every day I walk past the high school dropouts at the corner of Van Buren and State in Chicago's Loop. They have learned all about the free enterprise system, even if it is knowledge about how to violate Titles 18 and 21 of United States Code. Brazenly selling baggies of heroin, crack and weed, pockets bulging with illegal handguns while their customers stagger away in the throes of their latest narcosis...this is a nice way to go home every working day.
3
Methinks Trump has absolutely nothing to contribute to address this sad reality.
Real preschools, schools, breakfasts/lunches and jobs following school, is needed.
Real preschools, schools, breakfasts/lunches and jobs following school, is needed.
2
Genuine equal opportunity by definition would have to include a normal proportion of minority groups moving up into the upper levels of economic success.
We are not there yet, but this is a sign of real progress.
Meanwhile, what about conditions on the bottom? They are getting worse for everyone. For those who already had it bad, they are getting worse, just as they are for those falling out the bottom of the working class. That is part of the reality too.
How bad is it? Pretty bad for some.
What about crime? It depends on where, and on how one chooses to average the numbers. Overall, crime stats are better in the whole nation averaged. There are places where that is not true locally. That tends to be where people are suffering the most, and not just minorities. It is part of the suffering. It is part of the plague of War on Drugs too, war on the weakest among us.
Even for those not religious, aspirational values are set out there:
"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'" Matthew 25:40
We are not there yet, but this is a sign of real progress.
Meanwhile, what about conditions on the bottom? They are getting worse for everyone. For those who already had it bad, they are getting worse, just as they are for those falling out the bottom of the working class. That is part of the reality too.
How bad is it? Pretty bad for some.
What about crime? It depends on where, and on how one chooses to average the numbers. Overall, crime stats are better in the whole nation averaged. There are places where that is not true locally. That tends to be where people are suffering the most, and not just minorities. It is part of the suffering. It is part of the plague of War on Drugs too, war on the weakest among us.
Even for those not religious, aspirational values are set out there:
"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'" Matthew 25:40
6
My sense is that higher grade jobs tend to be more meritocratic, and that skills matter more than color. Also while obviously not perfect, white collar workplaces tend to be.more cosmopolitan and accepting of diversity.
10
There is no reason for anyone to be poor in this country. Poverty is simply a lack of resources needed for living, and it has nothing to do with education. If fact, it would appear from this article that educational opportunities are actually contributing to inequality and the wealth gap. This is because those who own all the resources reward some, those who have attained a higher education, with more money than others. Wealth inequality is thereby increased as more people are left to hold up "will work for food" signs. Poverty is created by those who own all the resources everyone needs for living, and they are the ones who purposely create income inequality, too. It's no accident, and those who think more educational opportunities are going to solve this are dilusional. People have been saying that for 50 years, and all that has happened is that as some have "advanced," things have gotten worse for the majority of Americans, regardless of race.
America has resources sufficient for at least four times as many people as we have in this country. Americans need to work together. just as people once did with old fashioned barn raisings in the 19th century, to make sure these resources are distributed evenly amoung our people so nobody will go without, regardless of race, and regardless of the level of education.
America has resources sufficient for at least four times as many people as we have in this country. Americans need to work together. just as people once did with old fashioned barn raisings in the 19th century, to make sure these resources are distributed evenly amoung our people so nobody will go without, regardless of race, and regardless of the level of education.
5
"America has resources sufficient for at least four times as many people as we have in this country."
Although there may be enough room for more people in America, where are the jobs for them going to come from with increased automation drastically reducing the need for no-skill / low-skill minimum wage workers.
Although there may be enough room for more people in America, where are the jobs for them going to come from with increased automation drastically reducing the need for no-skill / low-skill minimum wage workers.
It is so easy for people to point and say "Oh look at the well to do black family. See we do not have to worry about equality, educating the poor, or opportunity. We have our few tokens'. I am half black, in my 50s and grew up in public housing. Many in my cohort have escaped the projects and are in the middle class or better. But this is a small percentage. I would not have the same opportunities today as those educational doors that lifted me up.and out are closed.
The economic problems that restrict upward socioeconomic mobility are not just a black problem, it is a POOR problem. It is time to get past skin color and see that upward mobility in the US lags nearly all developed countries. It is wrong to point at a few as they move up the ladder and say the system works.
The economic problems that restrict upward socioeconomic mobility are not just a black problem, it is a POOR problem. It is time to get past skin color and see that upward mobility in the US lags nearly all developed countries. It is wrong to point at a few as they move up the ladder and say the system works.
115
Sierra, you say, “those educational doors that lifted me up and out are closed.” Exactly what closed doors are you referring to?
On any given day, half of Baltimore high schoolers are truant from their $15,000-per-pupil schools (near the big city top).
On any given day, half of Baltimore high schoolers are truant from their $15,000-per-pupil schools (near the big city top).
5
Decades ago, a college student could attend a state school, work while a student and during the summer, and graduate with little to no student loans. State budgets have withdrawn the amount of support they provide to public colleges and universities, with student loans to take their place.
In many Rust Belt cities and towns, the factories closed or moved, and the people remained, leading to poverty. This is just as applicable in the small towns of rural america as it is in places like Baltimore.
http://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2014/winter/long-shadow-karl-alexander/
In many Rust Belt cities and towns, the factories closed or moved, and the people remained, leading to poverty. This is just as applicable in the small towns of rural america as it is in places like Baltimore.
http://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2014/winter/long-shadow-karl-alexander/
3
Which half of you is black? Top? Bottom? Right? Left? Which half of Barack Obama is black?
Color is not race. There is only one multicolored human race species.
Being black and poor has been twice as bad as being white and poor for decades. Getting past skin color has been the white American dilemma for decades.
Color is not race. There is only one multicolored human race species.
Being black and poor has been twice as bad as being white and poor for decades. Getting past skin color has been the white American dilemma for decades.
1
Manufacturing jobs didn't have high wages because they were "good" jobs: they had high wages because workers, unions, and politicians fought for them. Meanwhile, tipped staff in the service industry in most places work for 1/3 of minimum wage with no benefits, no set hours, and very little respect (except from those who realize--like me--that if I did restaurant work more of my customers would be wearing their food than eating it). While a few elite chefs make good money, most make low wages. While corporate owners of nursing homes become wealthy, the care worker who deals with screaming granny and cleans her bed pan might make $8-$10 an hour (in the south at least). These have been traditionally been regarded as women's jobs, but they will always need done. There are plenty of jobs that do not require calculus and organic chemistry. We just don't want to pay anyone fair wages to do them.
26
Wanda, you do realize that any, that’s any, employer wants to pay the lowest wage that attracts workers who can get the job done?
If he pays more than he has to, that’s like a charitable contribution out of his own pocket. If you want a low wage earner to be paid more and their employer doesn’t want to give them his money, why don’t you give them some of your money?
If he pays more than he has to, that’s like a charitable contribution out of his own pocket. If you want a low wage earner to be paid more and their employer doesn’t want to give them his money, why don’t you give them some of your money?
1
No wages are low but no one needs to make a $100,000 emptying bed pans. I started working full-time when I was 15 and worked 52 years. I had all those low paying jobs and did not expect to make millions waiting on tables or cleaning rich white peoples' houses but understood that it was a means to the end. That being said I worked nights and went to school days and guess what I finished law school. The real problem is too many young people in this country are lazy, complacent and totally self-absorbed (how many times do you see these pampered jerks walking down the street oblivious to their surrounding looking at their phone). Prospective employees need to demonstrate they are worth being paid for their work--- not just think they are entitled to a job because they live in the USA.
1
A living wage is not "millions." A rich person who is too lazy to do their own work? Is that laziness, too? Why did we decide that assembly line work was worth a living wage, but working long hours talking care of our most vulnerable citizens is "lazy"?
I did the same thing as you, worked the whole time I went to college and have worked about the same number of years. I worked emptying bed pans and taking care of special needs adults, earned scholarships to try to get myself to college, worked as a bank teller, then got promotions, and put myself through graduate school while working and married (though I did not, as many of my laid off college students, have to do with a family). But we already have too many lawyers, and many times (and you know it) paralegals doing a lot of the paper pushing, and teachers here are being laid off as our governor guts education. I don't think my students are the ones who feel "entitled." I get what you're saying, but to equate a "pampered" youngster with a thirty year old waitress with two kids to feed who works her rear end off seems like awfully sloppy thinking for an attorney.
I did the same thing as you, worked the whole time I went to college and have worked about the same number of years. I worked emptying bed pans and taking care of special needs adults, earned scholarships to try to get myself to college, worked as a bank teller, then got promotions, and put myself through graduate school while working and married (though I did not, as many of my laid off college students, have to do with a family). But we already have too many lawyers, and many times (and you know it) paralegals doing a lot of the paper pushing, and teachers here are being laid off as our governor guts education. I don't think my students are the ones who feel "entitled." I get what you're saying, but to equate a "pampered" youngster with a thirty year old waitress with two kids to feed who works her rear end off seems like awfully sloppy thinking for an attorney.
5
"Those making $100,000 or more almost quadrupled to 13 percent (in contrast white Americans saw a less striking increase, from 11 to 26 percent)"
Are those numbers inflation adjusted? Relying on an admittedly frail memory, these figures may be entirely explained by inflation with no real-dollar increase in incomes at all.
Are those numbers inflation adjusted? Relying on an admittedly frail memory, these figures may be entirely explained by inflation with no real-dollar increase in incomes at all.
6
These data do paint a positive picture of the Black middle class, but they also reveal a few areas for concern. African Americans advance faster and tend to be more concentrated in government employment and the military.
Both of these areas have robust and sustained equal opportunity policies. That's all to the good. It shows what achievement rates can look like when equality is carefully nurtured.
The private sector has shown gains in Black employment, but none equal to those of government. This is significant because over time, salaries increase to higher levels in the private sector than they do in the public. Also, while many large companies have sound EEO policies, many smaller and medium size companies do not.
We've all seen the studies on resume selection and loan offerings, and a host of other employment activities which demonstrate stubborn and persistent racial discrimination. Just yesterday the news on Wells Fargo neglected to mention that Black customers were targeted for the bank's scheme to open phony accounts and then charge for them. The same happened with the sub-prime mortgage schemes during the housing bubble.
Higher education is the ladder for upward mobility and again the numbers while encouraging still require closer inspection. On average loan debt, length of time to achieve a degree and access and matriculation outside of the Ivy's there's still much work to be done. The question is who will be pushing these policies under this administration?
Both of these areas have robust and sustained equal opportunity policies. That's all to the good. It shows what achievement rates can look like when equality is carefully nurtured.
The private sector has shown gains in Black employment, but none equal to those of government. This is significant because over time, salaries increase to higher levels in the private sector than they do in the public. Also, while many large companies have sound EEO policies, many smaller and medium size companies do not.
We've all seen the studies on resume selection and loan offerings, and a host of other employment activities which demonstrate stubborn and persistent racial discrimination. Just yesterday the news on Wells Fargo neglected to mention that Black customers were targeted for the bank's scheme to open phony accounts and then charge for them. The same happened with the sub-prime mortgage schemes during the housing bubble.
Higher education is the ladder for upward mobility and again the numbers while encouraging still require closer inspection. On average loan debt, length of time to achieve a degree and access and matriculation outside of the Ivy's there's still much work to be done. The question is who will be pushing these policies under this administration?
7
Yes, and dishonest car salesmen make a good career of swindling black car buyers.
Is this because car salesmen are evil racists, and like to swindle blacks and give good deals to whites? Or is it that they would they like to swindle everyone, but have found most whites are wise to their schemes?
Is this because car salesmen are evil racists, and like to swindle blacks and give good deals to whites? Or is it that they would they like to swindle everyone, but have found most whites are wise to their schemes?
1
The educational system, particularly higher education, to become the centrist political system in America, the enduring core of politics between right and left, and the sorting system deciding class in American society? --And for that reason the battleground of politics in the future?
It seems no matter one's politics in America, the centrality of the educational system grows more powerful. The right and left wing talk their ideology, but then both respect the centrality of "The longer you stay in the educational system the more likely you are to increase earning power, and a high school education only is no longer enough in society".
This means no matter the politics the educational system is the real politics, the real churner increasingly deciding class status, turning out educated people of merit and leaving the rest lower class. As anyone can see, such a system does not sit easily with right wing religion, laissez faire economics, or military leanings--the educational system DECIDES SUCCESS--and of course the left wing socialist aspect is utterly defeated (there is no equal ability between people and therefore no identical earning power).
So we can either see the educational system becoming more powerful, exact in its determination of talent and ability (everything from tests of intellect to character; a social/genetic system of separation of wheat from chaff) or the whole enterprise twisted, gamed by alternating left and right wing impulses as we in fact see today.
It seems no matter one's politics in America, the centrality of the educational system grows more powerful. The right and left wing talk their ideology, but then both respect the centrality of "The longer you stay in the educational system the more likely you are to increase earning power, and a high school education only is no longer enough in society".
This means no matter the politics the educational system is the real politics, the real churner increasingly deciding class status, turning out educated people of merit and leaving the rest lower class. As anyone can see, such a system does not sit easily with right wing religion, laissez faire economics, or military leanings--the educational system DECIDES SUCCESS--and of course the left wing socialist aspect is utterly defeated (there is no equal ability between people and therefore no identical earning power).
So we can either see the educational system becoming more powerful, exact in its determination of talent and ability (everything from tests of intellect to character; a social/genetic system of separation of wheat from chaff) or the whole enterprise twisted, gamed by alternating left and right wing impulses as we in fact see today.
1
"Education decides success"?? This is magic bullet thinking: One cure for everything. It's a package deal: women's rights, health care, public safety, infrastructure and yes, education.
5
Studies have shown that education is greatly overstated as an influence. A survey of men with between $4 and $10 million in assets found that very few of them had gone to an Ivy League school, and and a substantial number had not finished college at all.
Can't wait till Trump's moves to reinvigorate the American economy begin lifting economic conditions for the "other 80%" of black Americans described in this piece.
And then the infrastructure spending.
It'll be interesting to see how many "progressives" show up to future demonstrations following that historic change in the inner cities.
And how marginalized Bernie and Liz will be when centrist Dems start cooperating with the GOP to get Americans back to work.
And then the infrastructure spending.
It'll be interesting to see how many "progressives" show up to future demonstrations following that historic change in the inner cities.
And how marginalized Bernie and Liz will be when centrist Dems start cooperating with the GOP to get Americans back to work.
6
So the takeaway is that the problems of black people without a college degree are similar to those of white people without a college degree, and the so-called upper class is becoming increasingly diverse.
What exactly is black and what is white, though, is another question to ponder. 23andMe, the DNA testing company, recently surveyed its members, reporting that the tipping point among those of mixed race for identifying primarily as black was just 28% African DNA. That means that millions of people who think they are black, probably because African characteristics like darker skin are dominant, are mostly something else!
The elephant in the room is that there are still jobs for men with a high school diploma or even less, in construction, landscaping, road repair, etc., but they are now occupied mostly by men who appear to be of Mexican heritage. The availability of labor that, if done by the undocumented, is certainly cheaper, has hurt less-well-educated white and black men alike.
What exactly is black and what is white, though, is another question to ponder. 23andMe, the DNA testing company, recently surveyed its members, reporting that the tipping point among those of mixed race for identifying primarily as black was just 28% African DNA. That means that millions of people who think they are black, probably because African characteristics like darker skin are dominant, are mostly something else!
The elephant in the room is that there are still jobs for men with a high school diploma or even less, in construction, landscaping, road repair, etc., but they are now occupied mostly by men who appear to be of Mexican heritage. The availability of labor that, if done by the undocumented, is certainly cheaper, has hurt less-well-educated white and black men alike.
52
You don't know what you are talking about. Color is not race! 23andMe is by far the lesser of and most misleading of the DNA testing companies. National Geographic and Ancestry are much better for different reasons
There is only one surviving biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit multicolored human race species. You are confusing color which is related to production of Vitamin D and protecting gene from damaging mutations as a result of differing levels of solar radiations at latitudes and altitudes with 'race'. Color is not race.
But about 2-5% of European and Asian DNA is Neanderthal. They are mixed race.
Repeated testing has shown that a black man with a college degree and no criminal record is less likely to be hired than a white man with a high school diploma and a criminal record.
There is only one surviving biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit multicolored human race species. You are confusing color which is related to production of Vitamin D and protecting gene from damaging mutations as a result of differing levels of solar radiations at latitudes and altitudes with 'race'. Color is not race.
But about 2-5% of European and Asian DNA is Neanderthal. They are mixed race.
Repeated testing has shown that a black man with a college degree and no criminal record is less likely to be hired than a white man with a high school diploma and a criminal record.
1
This makes for fascinating reading in the context of the relatively amorphous and undetailed unveiling of many Trump proposals that have the potential to totally undo the benefits accruing to the college-educated African American.
Just take a look at the following policies, which if enacted, affect the very aspirational African American in a big way:
Elimination of many federal jobs, part of the "destruction of the administrative state
A reconfiguration of the very aspect of the ACA that allowed all Americans to get a set of defined benefits--now, in the interest of "lowering premiums" state waivers can allow insurers to lure folks into plans with virtually no coverage
Tax reform which only works for the very top, as deductions take a huge hit. In the spirit of Trump, to profit from tax reform you must already be very, very rich
Decimation of lesser known social programs that help low-income individuals buy a house (that's your department, Dr. Carson!) receive meals on wheels, or get subsidized training for the new economy.
Based on this week's news alone, and the data in this article, I see African Americans as taking an ever greater hit than whites from Trump's "new rules", the most significant of which is, "To the richest shall go the spoils."
Just take a look at the following policies, which if enacted, affect the very aspirational African American in a big way:
Elimination of many federal jobs, part of the "destruction of the administrative state
A reconfiguration of the very aspect of the ACA that allowed all Americans to get a set of defined benefits--now, in the interest of "lowering premiums" state waivers can allow insurers to lure folks into plans with virtually no coverage
Tax reform which only works for the very top, as deductions take a huge hit. In the spirit of Trump, to profit from tax reform you must already be very, very rich
Decimation of lesser known social programs that help low-income individuals buy a house (that's your department, Dr. Carson!) receive meals on wheels, or get subsidized training for the new economy.
Based on this week's news alone, and the data in this article, I see African Americans as taking an ever greater hit than whites from Trump's "new rules", the most significant of which is, "To the richest shall go the spoils."
127
No doubt that this article was meant to spur discussion about the current situation.
Best to keep in mind that it's not an article, it's still an opinion piece. The author of any opinion piece seeks out facts to prove the point he's trying to make. Someone with an opposing viewpoint can cherry-pick equally compelling facts to make the opposite argument.
1
In other words, you are sorry poor whites aren't being hurt more.
1
Education is key both in rural areas where poorer whites often live and in inner cities and other areas where poorer blacks are situated. The time is past when a good job can be had without a decent education. There are cultural issues in both populations. Poorer whites must understand that those good old jobs in which one could make a decent living without a high school diploma are not coming back (despite what DT & his ilk claim). Further education & training are needed. In the inner city, cycles of violence, imprisonment, absent fathers, and a lack of working adult role models all need work. Political upheaval is fine, but not if the result is a man who promises pie-in-the-sky in terms of going back to the way it used to be.
42
As some sectors of society, higher-paying jobs are harder to come by, an area which seems to have attracted a surge of people is in real estate, which is affecting housing costs for better or worse, depending whether one's a seller or buyer. Working in it, requires less preparation than a college degree, yet realtors earning a percentage of high-cost houses might be better than at a traditional job with a comparable training requirement. A related opportunity is real estate investment as well as short-or-long-term rentals. Simply investing in affordable homes without living in them removes potential family homes off the market and raises the prices. Without other avenues for lucrative employment and for product creation in this economy (producing education, widgets, health care, buildings and infrastruction), there arises the middle man between producer and consumer.
2
"cycles of violence, imprisonment, absent fathers, and a lack of working adult role models" is disproportionately high in poor rural white communities, not just inner city black ones. Your description of these "cultural issues" is still gently racist, no matter how well-intentioned. You can't effectively diagnose the problem without doing away with this sort of bias.
3
In rural America and for whites in the inner city, DRUGS, cycles of violence, imprisonment, absent fathers, and a lack of working adult role models all need work.
FTFY
FTFY
3
During last years election, many of us in Ohio were not happy with the TV crews who fly in to tell the world who we are every four years. Three groups were shown to the world, upper middle class whites, white union members and blacks who were living next door to abandoned houses.
That was it. What is amazing is how the TV crews would be in a Columbus OH suburb with 20% plus AA, Asians, etc. in the high school, but they were unable to find one middle class person of color to interview or even show in the background.
It is not just those occupying various positions of power, privilege, and prestige who are invisible to media, but everyday middle class people of color.
That was it. What is amazing is how the TV crews would be in a Columbus OH suburb with 20% plus AA, Asians, etc. in the high school, but they were unable to find one middle class person of color to interview or even show in the background.
It is not just those occupying various positions of power, privilege, and prestige who are invisible to media, but everyday middle class people of color.
168
The national conversation ignores the presence of middle class Black people and Latinos, with the exception of criticism of affirmative action. Otherwise, we are generally considered to be downtrodden people.
5
I kinda wish that you never told anyone. America always preaches to Black people to pull up their bootstraps, get an education, be like the Asians, those are the good minorities. But when Blacks achieve anything of value (house, nice cars, the Presidency) there's always a Blacklash (cross burnings, DWB incidents, a SCOTUS affirmative action case, or tax codes & voting laws targeting Blacks with "surgical precision")
I was just trying to remain invisible these next four years. You see although we're not rich by any metric, my household makes way more than the national average and we have good healthcare and two pensions! The Trump tax cuts will benefit my household quite nicely. But this Patriotic American (yes Virginia, we love our country too) went to polls thinking of the less fortunate and voted for the candidate who was going to raise the minimum wage, keep Social Security solvent, work on income equality and improve Obamacare for all those red states that have the worse healthcare.
You see I do believe that some tides do lift all boats. Strengthening the middle class, pulling people out of poverty would effect me positively. Regardless of what this article says most middle class Blacks know their middle class Status is tenuous at best and could be wiped out with one precise family death or a lost of a job. Even when "we make it "we are still canaries in the coal mine" in our neighborhoods, industries and tax brackets.
I was just trying to remain invisible these next four years. You see although we're not rich by any metric, my household makes way more than the national average and we have good healthcare and two pensions! The Trump tax cuts will benefit my household quite nicely. But this Patriotic American (yes Virginia, we love our country too) went to polls thinking of the less fortunate and voted for the candidate who was going to raise the minimum wage, keep Social Security solvent, work on income equality and improve Obamacare for all those red states that have the worse healthcare.
You see I do believe that some tides do lift all boats. Strengthening the middle class, pulling people out of poverty would effect me positively. Regardless of what this article says most middle class Blacks know their middle class Status is tenuous at best and could be wiped out with one precise family death or a lost of a job. Even when "we make it "we are still canaries in the coal mine" in our neighborhoods, industries and tax brackets.
324
It is regrettable that many whites who do feel vulnerable target black Americans as a problem - in this case as competitors - and are serving as tools to justify racial discrimination, even as they destroy themselves.
And it's really regrettable that we still haven't found a way to draw all who are economically vulnerable together to defeat those who -in truth - disdain everyone who is too poor to have influence - and harbor their other biases just under the surface.
And it's really regrettable that we still haven't found a way to draw all who are economically vulnerable together to defeat those who -in truth - disdain everyone who is too poor to have influence - and harbor their other biases just under the surface.
41
This is the best comment I have read in the NY Times in week. This easily could be my life and family. Thank you.
3
"But when Blacks achieve anything of value (house, nice cars, the Presidency) there's always a Blacklash (cross burnings, DWB incidents, a SCOTUS affirmative action case, or tax codes & voting laws targeting Blacks with 'surgical precision')"
I call baloney. Please cite sources. When was the last time that a "cross-burning" occurred? AA has been harmful to *everyone* because it results in a lower graduation rate for blacks & Latinos and because it unfairly penalizes better qualified whites & Asians. AA results in a lower graduation rate for blacks & Latinos because they're admitted to schools that they aren't prepared for. Completely eliminate AA and fewer blacks & Latinos will be admitted to top-ranked schools but their overall graduation-rate will increase.
At the FBI website you can find national crime statistics broken down by race. Blacks commit the most street/violent crime in proportion to their numbers---by far. If Blacks would stop committing crime, or more realistically get it down to white levels, then eventually--it wouldn't happen overnight--they would stop being scrutinized by the police as closely as they are.
I call baloney. Please cite sources. When was the last time that a "cross-burning" occurred? AA has been harmful to *everyone* because it results in a lower graduation rate for blacks & Latinos and because it unfairly penalizes better qualified whites & Asians. AA results in a lower graduation rate for blacks & Latinos because they're admitted to schools that they aren't prepared for. Completely eliminate AA and fewer blacks & Latinos will be admitted to top-ranked schools but their overall graduation-rate will increase.
At the FBI website you can find national crime statistics broken down by race. Blacks commit the most street/violent crime in proportion to their numbers---by far. If Blacks would stop committing crime, or more realistically get it down to white levels, then eventually--it wouldn't happen overnight--they would stop being scrutinized by the police as closely as they are.
6
Nice to know in our end stage capitalism that some people of color own a bit of Boardwalk and Park Place. It's still time to flip the board. Can't have an economy if only a handful have money to spend. Can't live off our labor once we're all automated.
50
End stage capitalism?...interesting...and frankly, persuasive. A compelling way to view the catastrophe I believe our fool of a president and his puppeteers is inflicting on us.
2
Thank you for writing this piece. It was extremely frustrating during the 2016 campaign to hear the inaccurate perceptions of African-Americans. Equally as daunting has been the unbalanced spin of Black males from the media who commit crimes versus their non white counterparts. A Black man usually has a mug shot in the center of a news site, while you have to scroll down or press play to hear or see a White man's face who has committed an egregious crime as well. This ongoing assault from our media has been ongoing for decades, so naturally individuals who lack diversity in their social circles would misrepresent the African-American community as a whole. Additionally, if you have never visited PG County, Maryland, some of the Atlanta Suburbs and the Suburbs of San Antonio, Texas you would buy into the notion that Blacks are lazy and Latinos are poor. Hogwash! During the campaign, I was angry at Americans who were so shortsighted, yet I realized if they only read and listened to conservative radio, they were disconnected from the realities of our diverse Nation.
The truth is we have poverty across all races just like the bad actors. The problem is we piecemeal issues. Messaging must be balanced. We have a long way to go in our country as messaging has more to do with misrepresentation than any other factor.
The truth is we have poverty across all races just like the bad actors. The problem is we piecemeal issues. Messaging must be balanced. We have a long way to go in our country as messaging has more to do with misrepresentation than any other factor.
68
Election rhetoric ,different from reality....on all sides
1
As a white woman living in a very white state, I have no clue about a lot of things and depend on NPR, the NY Times mostly for my sphere broadening. The conservative news is not alone in painting broad brush pictures. This article is eye opening. I had no idea. And I'm really pleased to see it.
6
It is also true that poorer, lower middle class blacks are not living in hell either. As a so-called upper middle class person, I have family and friends who are far less well off and whenever I visit them, I am often at a lost to locate that hell they are supposed to be living in. Yes. I know all about gang warfare and drugs etc., but relatively few lower class blacks are addicts and while they fear gang warfare, relatively few actually experience gang violence. I don't say this to mitigate the pain of living in the inner city ghetto, but these people do not live as if they are in a war zone. They eat to their hearts' content, have 60 inch tvs that provide almost all the entertainment they desire, have loving family relationships, dress as they see fit, and appear to be quite content. But yes. There are the notorious bad actors that the media blows up and with which it smears the larger group of African Americans. This also indicates that without pervasive discrimination, these blacks would be doing so well that they would otherwise have risen by now to be seen as model Americans.
5
This piece creates the sense that great progress is being made in the economic disparity in this country between blacks and whites- with a focus on the comparative numbers pertaining to the professional class while suggesting working class blacks are in more or less the same leaky boat as whites.
Perhaps this is a deliberate focus on a positive story about the economics of race in this country, but too many whites want to declare racial inequality over in America, and I fear this piece may reinforce that myth.
I offer this sobering statistic- almost 40% of black children in America are raised in poverty compared to 10% of white children. That is a shocking and shameful disparity that this country needs to remain focused on.
Perhaps this is a deliberate focus on a positive story about the economics of race in this country, but too many whites want to declare racial inequality over in America, and I fear this piece may reinforce that myth.
I offer this sobering statistic- almost 40% of black children in America are raised in poverty compared to 10% of white children. That is a shocking and shameful disparity that this country needs to remain focused on.
139
While I also cautiously celebrate the apparent good news, let us not forget what caused this disparity in the first place: a deliberate effort, on many fronts, to prevent the African-American population in this country from ever achieving parity with white Americans. Through discriminatory practices in housing, education, and employment, African-Americans have been playing catch-up ever since they were permitted to compete. It is sad that we are fighting just to hold onto what gains we have made.
13
Thank you for sharing a treasure trove of rich data that more clearly shows the actual economic condition of black people. But it will easily be dismissed by Trumpsters as alternate facts; after all why would they believe anybody who belongs to a fake university or fake newspaper.
And the reason for their dismissal of this analysis is simple: unless you project an 'indiscriminate portrayal of African-Americans" how can you continue to ACTUALLY DISCRIMINATE. Plain and simple once you see it through Trump's lens.
And the reason for their dismissal of this analysis is simple: unless you project an 'indiscriminate portrayal of African-Americans" how can you continue to ACTUALLY DISCRIMINATE. Plain and simple once you see it through Trump's lens.
25
The data can support opposite interpretations, too. That is a thing with facts.
3
The key point of the story is not what is suggested by the headline, but the following: "In addition, the income gains among the top fifth of African-American earners from 2000 to 2015 stand in contrast to declines for each quintile in the other 80 percent."
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The division between the wealthiest and the poor blacks is the same as it is for whites. I taught at a majority black high school which had very few wealthy blacks. And the few that were there were viewed as outsiders because of their relative wealth. Their family backgrounds created a barrier that could not be breached. I was surprised to hear a poorer black girl insist that the black son of a lawyer "was not really black."
58
Yes, that is unfortunate. I went to a college that also earns high mark for diversity and I remember an editorial in the student newspaper by a black student who described how he was ostracized by his community for choosing to go to college - they accused him of trying to be white, called him an oreo cookie, and worse, much worse.
Perhaps it is time to use class instead of race to examine African-Americans. Lumped together by race, a wealthy black professional can speak for a poor black cleaning lady.
1
Black, white...what does any racial label mean as America is amalgamating at an ever-accelerating pace? Like Brasil to our south the day will come when everyone will have blended together to a degree and entitlement programs like Affirmative Action that impose their own reverse racist quotas and entitlements on the rest of society will be long gone. Our arbitrary strenuous efforts to relegate each other into meaningless pigeonholes on the basis of superficial appearances will be seen as increasingly futile and ludicrous. There is only the human race.
22
And like Brazil to our south, it is unlikely that greater interpersonal blending will erode to a significant degree the palpable differences in opportunity that exist based on skin color in our society. I would argue that social entitlement cultural practices like the white skin privileges that white extend to each other in its myriad forms confers such benefits to whites and imposes such costs on non-whites as to make affirmative action nothing more than footnote by comparison. To combat that entrenched racial privilege, we have mild policies like affirmative action. Unlike Brazil, we do have a vibrant black middle and upper middle class. We do have black millionaires, billionaires, CEOs of major companies, black senators, black governors and even had a black president. Not so Brazil, which still struggles to get blacks portrayed on TV as anything other than maids or crooks. That is why Brazil, despite its blending, is increasingly using affirmative action to change stubborn racial caste barriers in its own society.
If I were black and prosperous in America, I’d watch out. The first requirement to more effectively fleecing those who pay taxes is to start implying that they’re “oligarchs”, or at least calling them “wealthy”. Welcome to the stocks, folks: get ready for the rotten fruit and the flensing knives.
8
All the properous better watch their backs. Heck, if you are one of the ones with a job when trucks and buses are driverless, you'd better watch out.
12
Blue state:
If it ever comes to that without a solution in place to make productive and economically sufficient those left without work by driverless cars and buses, the wealthy will be our least worries as we wouldn't have the means to mop up the blood from our streets.
If it ever comes to that without a solution in place to make productive and economically sufficient those left without work by driverless cars and buses, the wealthy will be our least worries as we wouldn't have the means to mop up the blood from our streets.
2
"the day will come when everyone will have blended together to a degree and entitlement programs like Affirmative Action that impose their own reverse racist quotas and entitlements on the rest of society will be long gone."
Many years ago, the NYTs ran a graphic that showed black women had the lowest rate of interracial marriage and Asian-American woman had the highest, so the blending that some are waiting for to eliminate race might not be as diverse as they want to believe.
Many years ago, the NYTs ran a graphic that showed black women had the lowest rate of interracial marriage and Asian-American woman had the highest, so the blending that some are waiting for to eliminate race might not be as diverse as they want to believe.
1