Worth noting that the only country where the Government has wrecked health care is the US.
32
Hey Matt -- if you want a "sneak peak as to how effectively the government runs health care," you and your fellow red folk might want to take a look at this thing called Medicare.
And perhaps you could explain why the pro-business party is happy to leave businesses being the main providers of access to health care in this country, perpetuating the insane system of plans that vary by employer and cost hundreds of millions of dollars in unnecessary fees to manage?
And FWIW, there's no rule that says that a single payer system has to be run by the government. It could be a private single payer system. But it's really the only solution to the mess we've gotten ourselves into.
And perhaps you could explain why the pro-business party is happy to leave businesses being the main providers of access to health care in this country, perpetuating the insane system of plans that vary by employer and cost hundreds of millions of dollars in unnecessary fees to manage?
And FWIW, there's no rule that says that a single payer system has to be run by the government. It could be a private single payer system. But it's really the only solution to the mess we've gotten ourselves into.
63
I like this discussion--primarily because it reminds me of a dear friend who could not be less like me politically but with whom I have calm, witty discussions about politics. We often reference those around us who cannot seem to manage that sort of simple, civilized exchange. Sad!
33
God bless Rachel Maddow and her (always fact-supported) outrage. Want less? Try giving us all less to be outraged over.
63
I say the present occupant of the White House is fake, certainly not the news.
The other day he said that Mara-Lago is the winter White House. Well, winter is over so does that mean he will stop going to Palm Beach and inconvenience all the residents near that place....they can't drive into their streets for example. Also, the security cost is outrageous. Perhaps many of the foreign dignitaries would like to see OUR White House instead of a glitzy mansion...Europe has plenty of those. But then he wouldn't he be able to get that slice of the most beautiful chocolate cake...............?
The other day he said that Mara-Lago is the winter White House. Well, winter is over so does that mean he will stop going to Palm Beach and inconvenience all the residents near that place....they can't drive into their streets for example. Also, the security cost is outrageous. Perhaps many of the foreign dignitaries would like to see OUR White House instead of a glitzy mansion...Europe has plenty of those. But then he wouldn't he be able to get that slice of the most beautiful chocolate cake...............?
25
I stopped reading after about halfway through. The light-hearted, jocular tone does not fit with these times and my mood. Trump is dangerous. He's not low-energy Jeb or Lying Ted; he's treacherous Trump, a threat to our democracy.
If I want to laugh about the absurdity of this president, I will watch Stephen Colbert who is providing much needed and much better comic relief. And Stephen Colbert is not a journalist but a comedian. For journalists denounced almost daily by 45, this is no laughing matter.
If I want to laugh about the absurdity of this president, I will watch Stephen Colbert who is providing much needed and much better comic relief. And Stephen Colbert is not a journalist but a comedian. For journalists denounced almost daily by 45, this is no laughing matter.
42
Can't we all just get along? Think of building the Wall as infrastructure -- a term of art that means whatever you wish. We can use all the illegal aliens being rounded up to do the heavy lifting, from making and pouring the concrete to installing the barbed wire and crushed glass on top -- all at no cost. Of course, they will do the work on the Mexican side and so will seal their fate as the Wall rises above them. Then they can spray paint anti-US graffiti on the Wall as they are marched South towards their destiny.
3
I have many things to say, but will stick to this one topic. Health care. Matt says that the government is running health care, but that is simply untrue. The insurance companies are running health care, deciding what to cover and how much to charge. The government just requires everyone to have health insurance. When Matt compares the health insurance to car insurance for a car you cannot drive, he forgets that we all own bodies and should insure them, If we own cars, we are required to insure them. If we own houses, we are required to insure them. So we should be required to insure our bodies. The one major difference in these insurances is we hope to NEVER use our house and car insurance, but KNOW we WILL use our health insurance at some point in our lives.
35
Obamacare works. It is not a trainwreck, and would be working even better if people like Matt Labash treated it honestly rather than making up horror stories about its alleged failure.
34
In this discussion, I clearly see the true difference between progressives and conservatives. Progressives are inherently optimistic, and work to achieve goals. Conservatives are grumpy and pessimistic (which explains why they don't want to get anything done).
I wonder why it took me so long to realize this.
I wonder why it took me so long to realize this.
15
Trump's never had a pet in his life?
That explains so much about him.
That explains so much about him.
16
Mr Labash's family member was hoping that Obamacare would collapse... really? She should be careful what she wishes for... wait until she gets a load of the GREAT NEW TRUMPTASTIC health insurance plan! Hope she doesn't have any pre-existing conditions :(
13
It really is good to finally see a funny conservative like Matt. I mean, his line: "a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care." Oh, you mean, like Medicare, which is universally liked and efficiently administrated? Or my favorite line of his: "pro-labor conservative." A nice oxymoron. Pure comedy gold.
22
Both sides are "morally rudderless" but my side "taxes me less"! That `s all right then.
3
The key difference here is that Matt is an informed conservative (I wish I was able to underline the word informed). Gail and Matt each have their own viewpoints and opinions, but both of their opinions are based upon the same facts. This is no longer the case with most of our political discourse... Trump was able to galvanize voters who had traditionally never voted. These are also the same voters who traditionally never read (and I don't mean novels I mean political writings and daily political news coming from Capital Hill).
Trump Base != Conservatives.
Arguing with an informed conservative as an informed liberal can actually lead to good conversations and common ground.
Arguing with a member of the devoted Trump base... not so much. Never are facts or statistics invoked, only mud-slinging and blame game politics with no historical background or context to the talking points being thrown out. It is simply fox news talking points rinse and repeat, and complete dismissal of actual facts.
We can't allow Trump to keep calling legitimate sources of information Fake News, because the more people that swallow that pill, the closer we get to a point of governance by whim with total impunity.
Trump Base != Conservatives.
Arguing with an informed conservative as an informed liberal can actually lead to good conversations and common ground.
Arguing with a member of the devoted Trump base... not so much. Never are facts or statistics invoked, only mud-slinging and blame game politics with no historical background or context to the talking points being thrown out. It is simply fox news talking points rinse and repeat, and complete dismissal of actual facts.
We can't allow Trump to keep calling legitimate sources of information Fake News, because the more people that swallow that pill, the closer we get to a point of governance by whim with total impunity.
13
Whew! Matt is certainly brilliant and funny as all get out BUT as much as he denies it -when all is said and done -He is one hundred percent wrong on the subject of moral equivalency between red and blue.
It's simple - The GOP is at a moral and competency nadir unparalleled in the history of american politics.
They are led bythe morally bronze age - rich goons - and supported by the deplorable -worst of us -rabble!
It's simple - The GOP is at a moral and competency nadir unparalleled in the history of american politics.
They are led bythe morally bronze age - rich goons - and supported by the deplorable -worst of us -rabble!
15
When I retired two years ago my final paycheck showed that I had paid slightly less than $10K in health care premiums (with pre-tax $$) with a $3K deductible and $50 copay. This covers my wife and I. Newer drugs for my wife's asthma were expensive. Healthcare in this country is not cheap and never will be due to the entrenched interests that provide the care. Aside from that, understand that Republicans have no interest in social legislation of any sort.
19
Labash is like a nutty right-wing screed parrot.
6
Gail, is there a conservative out there who can actually represent the facts and who has a memory longer than that of a fruit fly?
Labash forgets how verbal critics of GWB after 9/11-- for example Dixie Chicks and Bill Maher--and of the Iraq war were vilified by the knee jerk reactionaries on the right.
He makes snarky fun of "safe spaces " but like George Will in his recent column in the WaPo , he fails to acknowledge why there is concern about racism and sexism in language and deeds. As a girl growing up in the pre-title 9 era, and I was acutely aware of what the boys were allowed to have and do that girls were not. We girls had to put up with everything from being made to wear skirts with bare legs in sub freezing weather, lack of equal opportunity for sports, and when we had sports, lack of equal money spent on equipment and care of the ball fields.
I am not scarred for life from this, but it would be great if Labash and Will etc. would acknowledge how they were coddled as white boys when they were young.
Labash forgets how verbal critics of GWB after 9/11-- for example Dixie Chicks and Bill Maher--and of the Iraq war were vilified by the knee jerk reactionaries on the right.
He makes snarky fun of "safe spaces " but like George Will in his recent column in the WaPo , he fails to acknowledge why there is concern about racism and sexism in language and deeds. As a girl growing up in the pre-title 9 era, and I was acutely aware of what the boys were allowed to have and do that girls were not. We girls had to put up with everything from being made to wear skirts with bare legs in sub freezing weather, lack of equal opportunity for sports, and when we had sports, lack of equal money spent on equipment and care of the ball fields.
I am not scarred for life from this, but it would be great if Labash and Will etc. would acknowledge how they were coddled as white boys when they were young.
25
"In fact, the corporate drone may have political correctness inflicted on him even more aggressively than your average pipe fitter does" This of course being the point of view of the middle aged white male corporate drone. Female corporate drones and corporate drones of color would likely have a different take on whether all that "PC stuff" is being inflicted on them or if it actually gives them a fairer shake or at least a chance to do their work in peace. I'd like to see the corporate drone honestly tell his coworker that he voted for Donald Trump because he's sick of having to be so nice to women and black people at work.
24
Somebody please rescue that poor Terrier from the ogre. Some people should not have pets. Our orange-haired imposter of a president is one of those.
8
One of my best friends is a retired federal judge appointed by Reagan, who he will defend to his dying day. His wife frequently marvels that we are friends at all, given how we argue, but it is always good natured and we thoroughly enjoy each other's company, there are things we agree.
In my legal career I have frequently interacted with politicians on all levels. First, as an Asst. County Corp. Counsel, I gave legal advice to the County Board and drafted ordinances. 30+ years ago, they seemed more civic minded than their current counterparts. As a criminal prosecutor for the last 27 years, I have worked with State Legislators to draft legislation to assist children & families and have tried to make the criminal code more responsive and efficient. Over time, it is getting harder to do. Legislators have become increasingly polarized in their ideologies and the good of the people is secondary at best. They often ask how legislation will sit with their party, not their constituents.
I truly want to like my legislators, but more and more, they're only interested in what I have to offer, if it is something that will help them in their career or standing. Perhaps the problem IS that legislators are NOW more politician. A favorite saying: "In my many years I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." John Adams, 2nd Pres. of the US. Is this sexist? It may apply to us women, too.
In my legal career I have frequently interacted with politicians on all levels. First, as an Asst. County Corp. Counsel, I gave legal advice to the County Board and drafted ordinances. 30+ years ago, they seemed more civic minded than their current counterparts. As a criminal prosecutor for the last 27 years, I have worked with State Legislators to draft legislation to assist children & families and have tried to make the criminal code more responsive and efficient. Over time, it is getting harder to do. Legislators have become increasingly polarized in their ideologies and the good of the people is secondary at best. They often ask how legislation will sit with their party, not their constituents.
I truly want to like my legislators, but more and more, they're only interested in what I have to offer, if it is something that will help them in their career or standing. Perhaps the problem IS that legislators are NOW more politician. A favorite saying: "In my many years I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." John Adams, 2nd Pres. of the US. Is this sexist? It may apply to us women, too.
15
Besides, they already have enough lapdogs already with Paul Ryan and the rest of the GOP.
6
A minor point, but the whole notion that Hillary saw the presidency as a "birthright" is infuriating. A birthright because she'd spent her whole life working for it? Because she had more experience than any other candidate? The expectation that experience, intelligence, or pragmatism mean anything may have been delusional, but that's a different issue.
36
This scoop just in over the fake news wire - so clearly fake it must be true!
The real reasons for Trump refusing to release his tax returns starts with him trying to deduct as a medical expense the costs of a botched elective surgical procedure to enhance his privates. Then he failed to report the massive out of court settlement he received as compensation. The IRS did accept his reporting of medical expenses for reconstructive surgery, but refused to accept his deduction for physical therapy expenses since his therapist/wife is never in the same building as Trump. But Trump need not sulk, other therapists are available. In fact, Ann Coulter has extra time on her hands and seems to be in need of a steady real job.
Wait! Since you didn't mention anything about the Russians, it appears that now the press, along with all branches of government seem to be lost or stuck spinning their wheels when investigating the Russian collaboration, so We The People have the solution:
Start a "Go Fund Me" project for the person(s) who produce evidence of impeachable offenses on the Trump-Pence White House.
While We are at it, we'll start another "Go Fund Me" project for whomever does the full frontal exposure of Trump's tax returns.
In this strange world where money is speech, we hold these truths as self serving evidence: Money is at the root of all politics, and their's no such thing as a free hunch.
The real reasons for Trump refusing to release his tax returns starts with him trying to deduct as a medical expense the costs of a botched elective surgical procedure to enhance his privates. Then he failed to report the massive out of court settlement he received as compensation. The IRS did accept his reporting of medical expenses for reconstructive surgery, but refused to accept his deduction for physical therapy expenses since his therapist/wife is never in the same building as Trump. But Trump need not sulk, other therapists are available. In fact, Ann Coulter has extra time on her hands and seems to be in need of a steady real job.
Wait! Since you didn't mention anything about the Russians, it appears that now the press, along with all branches of government seem to be lost or stuck spinning their wheels when investigating the Russian collaboration, so We The People have the solution:
Start a "Go Fund Me" project for the person(s) who produce evidence of impeachable offenses on the Trump-Pence White House.
While We are at it, we'll start another "Go Fund Me" project for whomever does the full frontal exposure of Trump's tax returns.
In this strange world where money is speech, we hold these truths as self serving evidence: Money is at the root of all politics, and their's no such thing as a free hunch.
7
I would pity the poor animal who had to live in this White House. It would remind me of the elephants and tigers held captive and made to perform in a circus - it's just too cruel an image.
6
I don't think Matt is funny. He is just angry and we have had enough of anger.
8
Per Winston Churchill
“In War: Resolution,
In Defeat: Defiance,
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will.”
The way I see it, in these conversations, the representatives of both sides are engaging in magnanimity, but in fact, one side has clearly won. It is all very well for Matt to be self-deprecating and pile on Trump, because his side is winning - Governers who reject federal funds to expand Medicaid or federal build much needed infrastructure projects, justices who have delivered the elections to the highest bidder and don't believe in abortion rights, inaction on global warming and a return to 19th century lassez faire capitalism. Even a somewhat incompetent congress only serves their purpose to show that gov't can't do anything, hence paying taxes is a waste.
The problem Gail, is that for both you and Obama, magnanimity is and was premature (in fact somewhat arrogant on Obama's part). You need to show a little toughness here, and not let Mr. Labash get away with idiotic claims about healthcare by meekly reminding us that the ACA was an attempt to appease Republicans. You can do better. Does Mr. Labash agree with the basic concept that health insurance requires healthy people to subsidize sicker ones? Does he believe that wealthier people need to subsidize poorer ones? What is HIS proposal - and who supports it?
Stop sticking to the low hanging fruit that is Trump. It's easy to hate Trump, especially among the readers of this paper.
“In War: Resolution,
In Defeat: Defiance,
In Victory: Magnanimity
In Peace: Good Will.”
The way I see it, in these conversations, the representatives of both sides are engaging in magnanimity, but in fact, one side has clearly won. It is all very well for Matt to be self-deprecating and pile on Trump, because his side is winning - Governers who reject federal funds to expand Medicaid or federal build much needed infrastructure projects, justices who have delivered the elections to the highest bidder and don't believe in abortion rights, inaction on global warming and a return to 19th century lassez faire capitalism. Even a somewhat incompetent congress only serves their purpose to show that gov't can't do anything, hence paying taxes is a waste.
The problem Gail, is that for both you and Obama, magnanimity is and was premature (in fact somewhat arrogant on Obama's part). You need to show a little toughness here, and not let Mr. Labash get away with idiotic claims about healthcare by meekly reminding us that the ACA was an attempt to appease Republicans. You can do better. Does Mr. Labash agree with the basic concept that health insurance requires healthy people to subsidize sicker ones? Does he believe that wealthier people need to subsidize poorer ones? What is HIS proposal - and who supports it?
Stop sticking to the low hanging fruit that is Trump. It's easy to hate Trump, especially among the readers of this paper.
11
Obamacare isn't what it looks like when the government runs health care. Obamacare is what it looks like when the government figures out a way for more people to afford health insurance that would protect them from bankruptcy if they got really sick.
Medicare is what it looks like when the government runs health care, or, rather, health insurance. Single payer so much easier for the doctors. A lot is covered, but not everything. And you still have to pay for part of it or buy your own insurance to cover the co-pays.
Medicare is what it looks like when the government runs health care, or, rather, health insurance. Single payer so much easier for the doctors. A lot is covered, but not everything. And you still have to pay for part of it or buy your own insurance to cover the co-pays.
21
Trump is fake
1
Matt and Gail --- terrific conversation. Should be required DOING once per month for all columnists. Refreshing to peek into your room where wit, self deprecation, and informed knowledge are the core of the banter. And, for those of us not quite at your level of eloquence, maybe we, too, can pick a partner to intellectual wrestle with? It is the Talmudic way.
I am admired of 90% of negative coverage by MSM. Democratic Party should be pleased by the results, it's better than they can do.
How can you trust a man who does not like dogs? Maybe he doesn't want them because he's afraid one of his sons might think its big game and shoot it? Look at the dog in his hands, its petrified, they know when a person does not like them, in any case he looks like a cat guy, he should get one or two. they can keep him company while he's roaming the halls of the White House in his robes.
1
Yep, Matt's a keeper.
But Matt, Obamacare really isn't health insurance by government, Medicare is. And which is better, you tell me.
But Matt, Obamacare really isn't health insurance by government, Medicare is. And which is better, you tell me.
11
The difference between President Obama, living in a foreign country as a child, being sufficiently open to new cultural experiences to taste a (unfortunately) common menu item and subsequently writing about the experience as an adult, and the right-wing pundits who seize on that event to create negative feelings in Western audiences who do not use cats or dogs as protein sources is the difference between those whose lives prepare them for leadership and those whose lives prepare them to watch leaders in action.
Many of the animals used in the US as sources of protein are raised, transported and killed in horrific conditions that will get worse as the currently weak regulations that protect safe food are removed or defunded under Trump and a Republican Congress. Many of the dogs and cats sold in the US will continue to come from puppy and kitten mills which produce unhealthy, bad-tempered pets for profit because Republican county and state legislatures fail to protect US dogs and cats in the name of profit. No right-wing, conservative, Republican can legitimately say they love dogs and vote the way they do. Look at the records of Republican-controlled states and humane treatment of farm and companion animals in law.
Trump will never allow a companion animal in the White House because any animal would take away the spotlight that must always be on him.
Many of the animals used in the US as sources of protein are raised, transported and killed in horrific conditions that will get worse as the currently weak regulations that protect safe food are removed or defunded under Trump and a Republican Congress. Many of the dogs and cats sold in the US will continue to come from puppy and kitten mills which produce unhealthy, bad-tempered pets for profit because Republican county and state legislatures fail to protect US dogs and cats in the name of profit. No right-wing, conservative, Republican can legitimately say they love dogs and vote the way they do. Look at the records of Republican-controlled states and humane treatment of farm and companion animals in law.
Trump will never allow a companion animal in the White House because any animal would take away the spotlight that must always be on him.
17
The quality of logic boils down to quantity: All x? Most x? Many x? Some x? A few x? Exactly x? One x? At least one x? No x? How many we are talking about is an important part of what we are talking about. Otherwise, you’re not really stating anything, and there’s too much of that today.
"She was forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible." Huh? "Forced" to buy a policy that good? That sounds like a sweet deal compared with the policies I had before the Affordable Care Act. Dependent completely on the pre-ACA private insurance market, I, and plenty of other people, had to pay much higher premiums and had to accept much higher deductibles. And depending on the state, those pre-ACA policies did not necessarily provide the minimum protections that ACA-era policies do.
17
You've hit the nail in the head. Those cranky about "...having to buy..," seem cranky because they want the freedom NOT to buy at all. No thought that their freedom may kill them or cost the rest of us for their care. And as you describe, I had lots of friends who loved the policy they had (not employer-provided) and hated their new ACA policy but the policy they had and liked was significantly deficient. And, they hated Obama.
5
Trump doesn't care anything about the wall, doesn't really want the wall, knows the wall is ridiculous. It is another one of his tricks, his cons, his colored scarves, designed to keep us talking, and deflect attention from the various malfeasances he wants to keep under the radar.
7
Matt you offer nothing more than criticism while our nation suffers. Please ask yourself if you're part of the problem or part of the solution. And try to figure out if you are the protagonist or antagonist in your own life's story. Future generations of Labash's are counting on your answers . . . I wish you well, but I hope you can find a new career. The way you are positioned your current career can be measured by a stopwatch.
3
I'm going to have to stop reading The Conversation if it's only purpose is to have Gail Collins do another liberal mea culpa (good God, enough!) and Matt Labash explain to all us "snowflakes" the facts of life. My sincere hope is that the Repos finally get their "health care" legislation passed and then Matty can explain to us all the Magic of the Marketplace yet again.
2
Matt Labash unwittingly makes an excellent argument for the use of the Oxford Comma. He writes about David Duke's record collection which includes "'The Sound of Music' soundtrack, Dan Fogelberg and Hitler speeches..."
May I interrupt these interesting comments to talk about punctuation?
For a second I thought "Dan Fogelberg speeches"?? Then I realized a comma was missing. Put the Oxford Comma in -- The Sound of Music soundtrack, Dan Fogelberg, and Hitler speeches-- and it's instantly clear.
And since we're talking politics and speeches, I have to point out that the last two Democratic presidents, Obama and Clinton, were entirely capable of writing their own and were deeply involved in the writing process. The Republican presidents? Not so much.
May I interrupt these interesting comments to talk about punctuation?
For a second I thought "Dan Fogelberg speeches"?? Then I realized a comma was missing. Put the Oxford Comma in -- The Sound of Music soundtrack, Dan Fogelberg, and Hitler speeches-- and it's instantly clear.
And since we're talking politics and speeches, I have to point out that the last two Democratic presidents, Obama and Clinton, were entirely capable of writing their own and were deeply involved in the writing process. The Republican presidents? Not so much.
26
I miss the Oxford comma too. I use it at work and our communications person corrects me. I guess I'm a geezer.
2
"...Dan Fogelberg and Hitler speeches." That explains so much about what happened to rock 'n roll in the mid-seventies.
2
Institutionally, the Times hates the Oxford comma. Now we can see how the Times' officiousness makes it its own worst enemy.
2
I actually really enjoyed this conversation. Matt may be a conservative, but I could grow to like him, well, at least a little bit.
2
"...if the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care."
Medicare is run by the government and people love it to the point that EVEN REPUBLICAN voters don't want the government "to touch my Medicare." That suggests to me that Medicare for all would be the way to go, but the GOP pols will never go for it since one of their reelection revenue streams is the healthcare industry.
And as far as "anti-PC pushback" from upper-middle and middle class voters...I don't know who Matt knows, but the white Trump voters I know are more anti-immigrant. As long as his ICE keeps deporting people and he keeps talking about "the wall," Trump voters are going to stick with him. The less-educated, less affluent--in a word, I think the characterization of them as "racist" is close on the money.
http://abc13.com/politics/96-percent-of-trumps-voters-say-theyd-do-it-ag...
Medicare is run by the government and people love it to the point that EVEN REPUBLICAN voters don't want the government "to touch my Medicare." That suggests to me that Medicare for all would be the way to go, but the GOP pols will never go for it since one of their reelection revenue streams is the healthcare industry.
And as far as "anti-PC pushback" from upper-middle and middle class voters...I don't know who Matt knows, but the white Trump voters I know are more anti-immigrant. As long as his ICE keeps deporting people and he keeps talking about "the wall," Trump voters are going to stick with him. The less-educated, less affluent--in a word, I think the characterization of them as "racist" is close on the money.
http://abc13.com/politics/96-percent-of-trumps-voters-say-theyd-do-it-ag...
10
Obamacare is not a disaster--I'm so sick of this destructive, unjust lie--it's a program that has dramatically reduced the scandal, millions without health care, that needs improvements--which has always been acknowledged. However, let's remember that our current "single payer health insurance," Medicare, IS efficiently run--it's the best health insurance I've ever had. For it, I pay an income-adjusted and affordable monthly amount deducted from my Social Security check. Medicare is the model we should be following for "Medicare for all" single-payer health insurance, and the effective, efficient infrastructure is in place. What are we waiting for?
29
I guess I am in the minority: the low-level corporate drone who did NOT embrace the way Trump talked.
6
I may be naive but I think part of the problem is that we assume that the people in the government run the government. They don't. follow the money - that's where the power is and has always been.
6
I still have my "Vote for the Crook. It’s Important." bumper sticker. It's one of my prized processions.
6
I hope your wife never needs her Obama Care Mr Labash " She was forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible. Which is much like having a mandatory car payment for a car that she could never drive."
I didn't need mine till 6 months ago and now thanks to Obama care, I still have a house, a car, and food on the table; thanks Obama
I didn't need mine till 6 months ago and now thanks to Obama care, I still have a house, a car, and food on the table; thanks Obama
39
You know Matt, I would hate politicians if I were you too, because the ones that actually take the ideas your ideology espouses and put them into law end up taking funding away for things like healthcare and other services for the poor and needy, and leaving big tax deficits. So unfortunate as you and your friends are so congenial, as opposed to the hard, cold, dislikable fellows such as Dick Armey, Phil Gramm, Ted Cruz and Sam Brownback, or the likeable but intellectually shallow fellows such as Bush Jr., or pathetically inept such as Palin and Trump.
Gail, we get our fill of charming, witty Conservatives in this paper. How about interviewing a real Conservative - who helped get Trump elected. Someone who isn't afraid of being disliked, and is willing to admit outright that they believe people who make lots of money are entitled to keep more of their money and buy whatever their hearts desire, while those who can't afford things such as child care, or healthcare or college have only themselves to blame for not making enough money.
Leave these unicorns to President Obama, who continues in his quixotic quest to reach consensus with people across the aisle who have made it clear that they don't believe in "transfer of wealth".
We suffer from an excess of collegiality,
Gail, we get our fill of charming, witty Conservatives in this paper. How about interviewing a real Conservative - who helped get Trump elected. Someone who isn't afraid of being disliked, and is willing to admit outright that they believe people who make lots of money are entitled to keep more of their money and buy whatever their hearts desire, while those who can't afford things such as child care, or healthcare or college have only themselves to blame for not making enough money.
Leave these unicorns to President Obama, who continues in his quixotic quest to reach consensus with people across the aisle who have made it clear that they don't believe in "transfer of wealth".
We suffer from an excess of collegiality,
18
Is it just me, or is Matt just a tad obsessed with the eating of dogs? Is he trying to pre-empt a mention of dogs on the station wagon roof? I also love his attempt to identify the "wall-to-wall 24-7 outrage industrial complex" as an MSNBC creation just days after Bill O'Reilly was replaced by Tucker Carlson. At least Ms. Maddow's outrage is backed up by old-fashioned fact-based journalism.
47
Our current situation in the United States is so sad and dangerous I can't find any humor in these pithy exchanges. The dangers of the Trump presidency are real, dangerous, and beyond the "right vs. left" exchanges that in part got us in to this whole sorry mess.
24
I like Matt much better than Arthur Brooks. Don't agree with much of what he says but I support his right to say it (here and on any campus) and appreciate the lack of lofty snark, which was a hallmark of Arthur Brooks.
9
"But the important thing is that we can talk about it good-naturedly"
And yet Labash's anger, cynicism and nihilism leap off the page; Collins is repeatedly forced to "handle" him in this column. I hope she's wearing oven mitts on both hands.
And yet Labash's anger, cynicism and nihilism leap off the page; Collins is repeatedly forced to "handle" him in this column. I hope she's wearing oven mitts on both hands.
12
If Labash's allegations are true and Trump voters actually voted for this immoral and incompetent man-child because they thought an Oberlin student's new preferred gender pronoun was ridiculous, then they are even more deplorable than I previously thought.
39
"And if the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care, you might forgive their reticence."
Heard of Medicare, Matt? A somewhat popular Government run healthcare program. You may want to look into it.
Heard of Medicare, Matt? A somewhat popular Government run healthcare program. You may want to look into it.
54
I love Matt's comment about Obamacare. His relative's $350 premium and $3,ooo deductible. He must have not have been paying for his own health insurance before the ACA. Try doubling both of those figures and you'll come up with what I was paying. Train wreck indeed.
23
Kudos to other readers who were able to read to the end of this drivel.
11
AH-HA!!! OXFORD COMMA EXAMPLE ALERT!!!
The quote:
Some highlights, none of which I’m making up: “The Sound of Music” soundtrack, Dan Fogelberg and Hitler speeches (which sound so much warmer on vinyl).
So, should there be a comma between "Dan Fogelberg" and "and Hitler speeches"? I think so. Thoughts???
The quote:
Some highlights, none of which I’m making up: “The Sound of Music” soundtrack, Dan Fogelberg and Hitler speeches (which sound so much warmer on vinyl).
So, should there be a comma between "Dan Fogelberg" and "and Hitler speeches"? I think so. Thoughts???
12
Since you ask....yes.
2
Yes, yes, and yes.
2
Are you saying that without the comma the reader might think "speeches" refers to both Dan Fogelberg and Hitler? Unlikely in the absence of "and" before "Dan." Times style (no series comma) is fine here.
"I’d be sort of disappointed if there wasn’t any blue rage, given the fact that we’ve got conservative Republicans in congress..." etc., etc.
this disappointed progressive, finds it past strange that there is no blue rage at the bungle, the chicanery, the complacency, the basketry, if you will, that cost us the election.
keep flapping your left wing ms collins and you'll keep flying in circles.
mr labash has it right, msnbc's mad dog and journeyman lefty, o'donnell, cnn's donald and blitzer, et al, are losing steam, the choir has been convinced since the first sunday, and now they're beginning to move on to bigger things (grooming their dogs?) which may not actually help trump get things done, but it will as rather an annoyance (like static) than an obstacle, do little damage.
could be that tump's most recent popular vote numbers, showing him beating HRC, (polls not skewed as the pre-election ones by voters who were reluctant to declare their support for trump for fear, yes fear, of social backlash), are an early sign, not of shifts in support, but of fatigue, the last thing we need.
this disappointed progressive, finds it past strange that there is no blue rage at the bungle, the chicanery, the complacency, the basketry, if you will, that cost us the election.
keep flapping your left wing ms collins and you'll keep flying in circles.
mr labash has it right, msnbc's mad dog and journeyman lefty, o'donnell, cnn's donald and blitzer, et al, are losing steam, the choir has been convinced since the first sunday, and now they're beginning to move on to bigger things (grooming their dogs?) which may not actually help trump get things done, but it will as rather an annoyance (like static) than an obstacle, do little damage.
could be that tump's most recent popular vote numbers, showing him beating HRC, (polls not skewed as the pre-election ones by voters who were reluctant to declare their support for trump for fear, yes fear, of social backlash), are an early sign, not of shifts in support, but of fatigue, the last thing we need.
2
2010 - is this DT's office? Photos on the couch, clutter everywhere. Seems like people should have been wondering about DT's competence at least 7 years ago. And are those some kind of small "trophies" on the window sills and the table behind him?
Good grief, the man doesn't even like dogs - that should have been warning enough.
Good grief, the man doesn't even like dogs - that should have been warning enough.
9
Uh, what if it is that the dogs don't like him?
1
"jury of my peers." that's a good one.
5
FAKE NEWS:
The Gender Wage Gap
The Campus Rape Hysteria
FAKE NEWS:
The Gender Wage Gap
The Campus Rape Hysteria
FAKE NEWS:
Finally the Times dispensed with the stuffy armchair opponents and brought in Matt Labash. We left leaning folks can only cheer him on, because he exposes the hypocrisy of the political process to a liberal, which will cause the honesty in the liberal (which lurks beneath the surface) to dispense with cosmetics. Soon Gail will be talking only about workers' rights. Matt Labash will bring out our inner Bernie.
51
Matt, you must live a very sheltered life. I've met people who would be thrilled to have the $350 a month with $3K deductible you mention so disparagingly; these people were terrified Obamacare would be repealed and they'd be forced to pay something like $1,500 a month if they were lucky enough to get insurance at all. (It never used to be easy to get if you had a preexisting condition, remember?) At least Obama had compassion for people, and tried to get a better system going. More than could be said for his successor.
36
I would also like to point out that all insurance plans on the exchanges must offer a pretty extensive set of preventive services at no cost to consumers. No deductible, no copayment, no coinsurance. Two years ago I was diagnosed w rheumatoid arthritis and am now taking a drug that costs $32,000 per year. Try paying for that without insurance! I'm glad I have it and would hate to see insurance yanked from tens of millions of Americans to give tax cuts to a few very wealthy individuals. Shame on Republicans for trying to do that.
6
Thanks for a good read, both of you.
Bernie Sanders is a politician, by most criteria, and he deserves some trust for his honesty and courage. What may eventually take him down is that he's telling the electorate that *we* need to get interested, in formed and active and stay that way--this, to Americans, surrounded by reality and fantasy TV and a zillion other cheap thrills. Are we up to it? If we aren't, it seems safe to say that things will continue the way they've been.
Bernie Sanders is a politician, by most criteria, and he deserves some trust for his honesty and courage. What may eventually take him down is that he's telling the electorate that *we* need to get interested, in formed and active and stay that way--this, to Americans, surrounded by reality and fantasy TV and a zillion other cheap thrills. Are we up to it? If we aren't, it seems safe to say that things will continue the way they've been.
11
That was a fun read. Made my day. Thanks.
2
A great column, up there with your best, and a good distraction from the seriousness of the issues in the sense that the sarcasm was potent.
Meanwhile, we still have an incompetent president with an incompetent staff making incompetent decisions that could push us into new wars, to say nothing of high inflation and a recession or worse, just like the last time Republicans were in office.
The problems that this administration has already created are so many that I can barely keep up them: from restrictions on the EPA to lack of diplomacy where it matters, to wasting taxpayer money at unprecedented rates so the president can vacation weekly to previously unknown levels of nepotism in the White House, it's practically impossible to keep up with all the damage being done on a daily basis. Meanwhile, Flint still doesn't have potable water, coal workers won't get those jobs back and no one is helping them train for new jobs.
Meanwhile, we still have an incompetent president with an incompetent staff making incompetent decisions that could push us into new wars, to say nothing of high inflation and a recession or worse, just like the last time Republicans were in office.
The problems that this administration has already created are so many that I can barely keep up them: from restrictions on the EPA to lack of diplomacy where it matters, to wasting taxpayer money at unprecedented rates so the president can vacation weekly to previously unknown levels of nepotism in the White House, it's practically impossible to keep up with all the damage being done on a daily basis. Meanwhile, Flint still doesn't have potable water, coal workers won't get those jobs back and no one is helping them train for new jobs.
11
I haven't noticed any Republican reticence to discuss single-payer, but I have noticed their reluctance to enact it. It is time to stop the alternative vocabulary.
11
Thanks so much for this! I experienced your dialectical dialogue to be a tiny seedling of hope. Angry, riled up people lose their sense of humor, act in an uncivil manner, and often develop a weakness for authoritarianism because SOMEBODY has got to maintain order! Enmity between Americans who are all facing the same concerns (robots, inequality, and a health care system that costs too much among others) is as much of a problem as the concerns themselves. The Civil War was the bloodiest conflict in American history. The damage we are capable of doing to ourselves is immense. Making an effort to find common ground as Americans is crucial to our survival. Kudos to Gail, one of my all time favorite writers, for being the consistent voice in a genuinely funny dialogue between left and right. Polarization is not the answer. We need to return to the days of the dialectic. Socrates would be proud of this piece!
5
I thought Republicans had executed all conservatives with a sense of humor except P.J. O'Rourke.
12
Matt snarky swipes against ObamaCare and Obama's message of "hope" as examples of failure during the past administration, strike me as another example of false equivalency. Obama left this country better than he found it. And as he departed office, we still were a beacon to the world. Trying to, in any way, defend Mr. Trump or the current trajectory of the Republican government chaos, by attacking Obama, doesn't resonate well with many in this country.
65
I couldn't agree more, Aquavidis. Trump is the antithesis of "hope"...He's hopeless.
10
I agree with you. Even with the racist hatred of the gop at full gallop, President Obama still managed to provide the country with affordable care insurance. The legacy of defeat they worked daily to ensure turned out to be theirs. They will similarly own trumps miserable presidency.
5
Gail scores on substance. To paraphrase: "...the Obamacare flaws are due to a futile attempt to appease the Republicans, while the preferred Single-Payer option is our way forward." But, kudos to Matt Labash as a clever fill-in for D. Brooks. Anyone who rips social media Twitter and Facebook with lines like:
"...Now, a scary majority tend to speak more intelligently than they tweet.....I hate that formerly respectable adults now think it’s okay to go at each other like spray-tanned girls on Jersey Shore, who start windmill-slapping each other after they’ve each had double-digit cherry vodkas and one calls the other : "; has my undying respect.
"...Now, a scary majority tend to speak more intelligently than they tweet.....I hate that formerly respectable adults now think it’s okay to go at each other like spray-tanned girls on Jersey Shore, who start windmill-slapping each other after they’ve each had double-digit cherry vodkas and one calls the other : "; has my undying respect.
8
To Gail and Matt:
Politeness, though a virtue, is of little use when the entire republic is in such uncharted and stormy waters. You might as well be having cocktails on the Titanic. We have little else but a sea anchor to hold us into the wind when, to continue the metaphor, what is needed is a full head of steam and above all a captain who knows what he is doing.
This president is off the charts; impossible to classify in conventional political terms. He is the greatest electoral mistake in the last 100 years (or more) by virtually any measure.
Setting aside any underlying philosophy he may have—or not, the man has so many personal flaws relating to his psyche that no one other than the crew of plutocrats he has given control of the executive branch to would stand for his antics in office.
Topping things off is a Republican Congress either absolutely devoid of the courage to tell the king he must obey the laws or else and/or which will sell its soul for another tax break for its membership. Perhaps both.
Politeness, though a virtue, is of little use when the entire republic is in such uncharted and stormy waters. You might as well be having cocktails on the Titanic. We have little else but a sea anchor to hold us into the wind when, to continue the metaphor, what is needed is a full head of steam and above all a captain who knows what he is doing.
This president is off the charts; impossible to classify in conventional political terms. He is the greatest electoral mistake in the last 100 years (or more) by virtually any measure.
Setting aside any underlying philosophy he may have—or not, the man has so many personal flaws relating to his psyche that no one other than the crew of plutocrats he has given control of the executive branch to would stand for his antics in office.
Topping things off is a Republican Congress either absolutely devoid of the courage to tell the king he must obey the laws or else and/or which will sell its soul for another tax break for its membership. Perhaps both.
Matt, we need to know the reason that your relative does not need health insurance (anymore than a car and payment)?
Is she a super rich robot?
Is she a super rich robot?
17
No she must have magical DNA that is impervious to illness....forever and ever. And live in a protected box so she will never have an accident.
6
He really should have said "didn't need health care YET". And that's definition of insurance that Republicans pretend not to understand. You pay car insurance and house insurance and if you're lucky you'll never need them. In fact the only insurance that will always be collected on is life insurance.
11
Matt and Gail, Keep this up. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.
7
The "Rachel Maddowization of America" is allegedly responsible for continuous outrage?
Wow. Fox News was ginning up white male entitlement outrage based on lies back when Rachel was still working on her DPhil at Oxford. But by all means let's pretend that Rachel is the outrage problem.
I mean, have you not seen any of the O'Reilly's-gone montages? He is screaming, cursing, lying, bullying. Rachel hides behind logic and reason and at worst will make a "you-gotta-be-kidding-me-with-this-crap" face. Yet she with her Oxford Doctorate allegedly represents the outrage problem?
Wow. Fox News was ginning up white male entitlement outrage based on lies back when Rachel was still working on her DPhil at Oxford. But by all means let's pretend that Rachel is the outrage problem.
I mean, have you not seen any of the O'Reilly's-gone montages? He is screaming, cursing, lying, bullying. Rachel hides behind logic and reason and at worst will make a "you-gotta-be-kidding-me-with-this-crap" face. Yet she with her Oxford Doctorate allegedly represents the outrage problem?
72
Great comment, Ann ! Comparing Maddow to O'Reilly ? Ha Ha, LOL. Like Einstein to a Worm. Sorry worms.
6
Sorry, Gail and Matt. Neither loss of job opportunity nor "the PC movement" were the main reason Trump won.
I asked dozens of Trump voters why they voted for him, and the first thing they all said was their hate for Hillary Clinton, drummed up for years by Fox and friends.
Unfortunately, (as has been proven since the 1930s), relentless hate propaganda works.
www.newyorkgritty.net
I asked dozens of Trump voters why they voted for him, and the first thing they all said was their hate for Hillary Clinton, drummed up for years by Fox and friends.
Unfortunately, (as has been proven since the 1930s), relentless hate propaganda works.
www.newyorkgritty.net
32
I've asked dozens of coworkers and acquaintances who they voted for president and why. The one's who said they voted Don said they hated Hilliary AND feared immigrants. This in a fairly Neo liberal California bubble!
1
I so hoped she wouldn't run. They have made up stuff on her for decades. If she had dropped out of the race fairly late and been replaced by someone else there would be little time for dirt to be dug and stuff to be made up on him or her.
Thanks for the good read. You have to feel for the intellectual, mostly-rational conservative types these days. Its gotta be tough to find out the hard way that your political group is a species with less than 50 breeding specimens remaining.
I do appreciate some of the points Matt makes, particularly about politicians. If there is a takeaway for Democrats it should be this: cooperate with Republicans on policies that hurt working people, (or start disastrous wars, or permanently damage the environment) and they will find a way to blame the fallout on you while accepting zero responsibility themselves. And further, 49.9% of voters will buy it.
I do appreciate some of the points Matt makes, particularly about politicians. If there is a takeaway for Democrats it should be this: cooperate with Republicans on policies that hurt working people, (or start disastrous wars, or permanently damage the environment) and they will find a way to blame the fallout on you while accepting zero responsibility themselves. And further, 49.9% of voters will buy it.
18
Hey Matt: Medicare is a pretty good example of how the government runs healthcare. Ask people over 65 how many of them want to give that up.
52
Welcome Matt Labash. You are a much more honest conservative than any of your predecessors.
8
The "train wreck that is Obamacare" has saved my struggling self-employed household $700/month. The fact is that Obamacare is progressive in the tax sense of the word. The well-to-do pay more so that the not so well off and the chronically ill can get the health care thy need.
29
Gail
When you state: "Don’t know that I’d trust mine to pass an honest budget. She’ll do anything for a treat."
Are you talking about your dog or your representative?
When you state: "Don’t know that I’d trust mine to pass an honest budget. She’ll do anything for a treat."
Are you talking about your dog or your representative?
9
Wow! Gail, how did you get through all that business about politicians and dogs and not mention Mitt Romney and Seamus???
6
"the train wreck that is Obamacare".
I have heard this lie so often that it no longer amuses me.
I have heard this lie so often that it no longer amuses me.
35
From the article -- Labash's family member was "forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible." As if this is a bad thing? That sounds pretty cheap to me -- from what I hear, a lot of people would love a policy like that.
28
I pay double that for lousy coverage- so you are correct. I would love to get that policy- where do I sign up?
I'd love a cheap policy with a high deductible. I want insurance for major things, not for going in to get a flu shot or treatment for a sprained ankle. One of my kids had a fantastic policy that had about a $90 copay when she went to the doctor. My copay is around $30 and fortunately my spouse's employer pays for our insurance as I'm guessing it's very pricey.
Let me just throw this in there...With the Western world looking like it's falling apart at the seams, the Middle East In Flames and N. Korea on the verge of
starting the Big One in Asia, we have Trump,Russia and China dropping subtle hints of a new world order. With everything happening around the world these days I can't rule out a modern version of 'taking over the world.' It seems like the 'leaders' of Russia, China and there U.S. could be quietly (but too quietly)
laying the groundwork for a merger to mother all mergers. Gail and Matt could joke about this idea all they want, but where it's all going in this world is still
anybody's guess. World War III in not really in anybody's interest.
\
starting the Big One in Asia, we have Trump,Russia and China dropping subtle hints of a new world order. With everything happening around the world these days I can't rule out a modern version of 'taking over the world.' It seems like the 'leaders' of Russia, China and there U.S. could be quietly (but too quietly)
laying the groundwork for a merger to mother all mergers. Gail and Matt could joke about this idea all they want, but where it's all going in this world is still
anybody's guess. World War III in not really in anybody's interest.
\
39
Thank you, Gail, for these peeks into the intelligentsia of the right. They all appear to be trying to emulate Wm. F. Buckley's condescension to those nasty politicians and the even nastier "common folk".
It's a cowardly way of doing nothing-good or bad.
It's a cowardly way of doing nothing-good or bad.
7
Aside from DT not having a dog or any pet ( which I think is good since I doubt he has enough love or decency in his heart to care for a pet), there are so many other issues we have with this man being POTUS- I can't list them all here.
Let's just say, DT has devolved the dignity of the presidency into banana republic stature where most people do not believe anything that comes out of this man's mouth- in fact, the exact opposite is usually true. When GOP leaders called DT a pathological liar- they were in fact correct.
He even lies about unimportant things or things that can easily be proven as lies- like the size of his inaugural crowd. He thinks in terms of TV ratings. He is not fit to be president- he's not fit to be in any position of responsibility in any industry. If he wasn't born into wealth and privilege, he would be homeless or in prison. He is a mentally unstable con man who needs to be removed from office.
Let's just say, DT has devolved the dignity of the presidency into banana republic stature where most people do not believe anything that comes out of this man's mouth- in fact, the exact opposite is usually true. When GOP leaders called DT a pathological liar- they were in fact correct.
He even lies about unimportant things or things that can easily be proven as lies- like the size of his inaugural crowd. He thinks in terms of TV ratings. He is not fit to be president- he's not fit to be in any position of responsibility in any industry. If he wasn't born into wealth and privilege, he would be homeless or in prison. He is a mentally unstable con man who needs to be removed from office.
24
Excellent. Everyone needs exposure to a member of the "other side" who isn't in "crazy" mode. Anyway, I enjoyed the exchange.
7
"...Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care..."
Government? Anyone bet this fellow knows zilch about government run health care around the civilized world?-- That he can't see his own nose due to Libertarian ideological blindness. Not unlike David Duke and Jews. He thinks for profit insurance companies really like to pay their claimants and run health care for the public good--governed by an invisible hand.
Or does he mean the corrupt GOP plutocratic government--the dark knights of corporate-lords and neo-feudalism--with their not so invisible hands in the pockets of donors. Congress should be renamed--House of Lords.
Government? Anyone bet this fellow knows zilch about government run health care around the civilized world?-- That he can't see his own nose due to Libertarian ideological blindness. Not unlike David Duke and Jews. He thinks for profit insurance companies really like to pay their claimants and run health care for the public good--governed by an invisible hand.
Or does he mean the corrupt GOP plutocratic government--the dark knights of corporate-lords and neo-feudalism--with their not so invisible hands in the pockets of donors. Congress should be renamed--House of Lords.
27
Politicians may be "morally rudderless," exemplified by Republican zeal for a healthcare alternative that will strip coverage for 24 million people. I prefer the term used by James Baldwin - moral apathy. Politicians know right from wrong. They just don't care about doing the right thing unless it helps them get re-elected. Doing the wrong thing that hurts, pick one - poor people, the environment, the country's image in the world - is preferable if it gets them re-elected,
26
Cudos to Gail for getting it in throughout the piece that THEY started it!
No more false equivalency
No more false equivalency
18
I owned my own (very small) business for 28 years. Paid health insurance premiums for myself and employees. In 2002, healthy--no pre-existing conditions--my premium was $287 per month with a $2500 deductible. Annual increases thereafter ranged from 8 to 15%.
According to Labash, the ACA ruined all that when in 2012 someone he knew had to pay $300 a month.
According to Labash, the ACA ruined all that when in 2012 someone he knew had to pay $300 a month.
21
We should all be disturbed by Trump's one on one interview with the Associated Press this weekend. The audio and transcript are a study in confusion and distraction.
Exhibit A:
Forgetful, while complaining, and letting his voice trail off, as sentences were incomplete, and he proceeded in a very confused manner:
TRUMP: OK. The one thing I've learned to do that I never thought I had the ability to do. I don't watch CNN anymore.
AP: You just said you did.
TRUMP: No. No, I, if I'm passing it, what did I just say (inaudible)?
AP: You just said —
TRUMP: Where? Where?
AP: Two minutes ago.
Exhibit A:
Forgetful, while complaining, and letting his voice trail off, as sentences were incomplete, and he proceeded in a very confused manner:
TRUMP: OK. The one thing I've learned to do that I never thought I had the ability to do. I don't watch CNN anymore.
AP: You just said you did.
TRUMP: No. No, I, if I'm passing it, what did I just say (inaudible)?
AP: You just said —
TRUMP: Where? Where?
AP: Two minutes ago.
18
The whole interview was filled with inaudible excerpts and what was audible was in fact rambling and shows a mentally incompetent person. This person is unfit to be anywhere near the nuclear codes.
14
Worst interview ever. It was so striking that he can't seem to finish a thought, repeatedly gets his facts wrong--in the same sentence he referenced 59 missiles, then called them 79 missiles. Last interview he confused Iraq with Syria.
Yeah. Offered no substance, nothing was given even a slightest historical context--- he rambled, contradicted himself, and seemed utterly clueless at every turn. The rambling and subject changes seem like a declining process, where the speaker just trails off---there goes the inaudible. What he said was likely incomprehensible for a transcript. Maybe muttering to himself even...A lot of incoherence + couldn't remember what he had just said. If you contrast it with how he spoke years ago, the fluency is gone, and he's not good on his feet at all. Worst public speaker I have ever heard.
His father died with dementia in 1999. No one connects the dots but us commenters?
Yeah. Offered no substance, nothing was given even a slightest historical context--- he rambled, contradicted himself, and seemed utterly clueless at every turn. The rambling and subject changes seem like a declining process, where the speaker just trails off---there goes the inaudible. What he said was likely incomprehensible for a transcript. Maybe muttering to himself even...A lot of incoherence + couldn't remember what he had just said. If you contrast it with how he spoke years ago, the fluency is gone, and he's not good on his feet at all. Worst public speaker I have ever heard.
His father died with dementia in 1999. No one connects the dots but us commenters?
6
As long as Democrats continue to allow Republicans to label Obamacare government- run health care, they will lose. Obamacare is corporate-run healthcare, with profit as its main purpose. As is the Medicare Part D prescription drug program. Both are examples of what not to do with health insurance. They were both designed by Republicans and are, for many if not most Americans, useless.
Medicare is government- run and runs pretty well. Start defending what works.
Medicare is government- run and runs pretty well. Start defending what works.
33
I can't believe Gail didn't ask Matt what alternative his family member would have had to her $350/mo. $3000 deductible health plan if there was no ACA. Reading between the lines (because surely neither he nor his family member believes she would have gotten a better deal with the old marketplace), what she minded was being forced to buy it, when she'd prefer to go to the emergency room for "free" if she became very ill. Then we could all pay the hidden tax of "free" emergency room care. Only in America, the exception to all rules, would that be considered a preferable course of action.
15
Thank you so much to both of you! I needed this!
5
"I personally know tons of Trump supports — upper-middle and upper class among them — for whom the anti-PC pushback made them reach for their MAGA hats."
What I read in that statement is what many have commented on since the emergence of Trump: "Anti-PC" is code for misogyny, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, and all-around ugliness. These impulses have always existed in the underbelly of America, but we used to be civilized enough to at least pretend that such impulses are unacceptable. It was called having good manners and respect for others. If I had to choose between "PC" and the rampant, unrestrained display of ID we're seeing now, I'd choose PC all the way.
What I read in that statement is what many have commented on since the emergence of Trump: "Anti-PC" is code for misogyny, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, and all-around ugliness. These impulses have always existed in the underbelly of America, but we used to be civilized enough to at least pretend that such impulses are unacceptable. It was called having good manners and respect for others. If I had to choose between "PC" and the rampant, unrestrained display of ID we're seeing now, I'd choose PC all the way.
17
Medicare is actually the sneak peek at how the government could run health care - somewhere around 90% better than private health care companies, I think.
26
It would work a lot better with the ability to negotiate or otherwise control prescription drug prices like every other advanced country on earth does. Actually at one point Trump said this might be a good idea, then never mentioned it again of course.
7
No, his is not a moribund "art". This is what some intelligent reader would call "rice with mango". A grave to a loose snobbery, of bar of dark canteen. If someone asked pirque died writing journalism, they would take him to the pantheon where those who, for lack of ideas and critical and informative capacity, made us feel ashamed of their ridiculous posture and respect for the readers. I do not know why, as I read them, I felt transposed into that hollow world described by Scott Fitzgerald in his Gatsby. Tom and Daisy looking lazily at an Italian balcony.
1
The big elephant in the country - the GOP - needs to be addressed as the cheaters they are, tax cutting our way to greater deficits and inequality, stealing SCOTUS seats, stealing health coverage from millions, and their anti-everything that is good and destruction for profit programs that benefit the fewest and wealthiest among us. Not a sustainable strategy - and when the red bubble of vindictive greed bursts, it will not be good for anyone.
The Donkey in the room is not so innocent, but there is no comparison to the evilness of the other side and their true to life death panels for money transfers to the top.
The Donkey in the room is not so innocent, but there is no comparison to the evilness of the other side and their true to life death panels for money transfers to the top.
Isn't it possible that the various "resist" movements are actually welcomed by the Trump administration and friends. It gives us the false notion that we still have a say in a "so called" democratic republic" and helps to calm us down a bit, though I think 5mg of Valium would do the same job.
Look at the damage Trump has already done, it far outweighs the Muslim Bans, which I fully expect to get through the Supreme court now that we have Gorsuch sitting on the bench.
Perhaps "Trump/Ryan care" was too much too fast, but I also expect that to ultimately be passed, perhaps not at the moment in in a year or do.
In any case, we're in for an extremely bumpy ride and I expect that things will never be the same again.
Look at the damage Trump has already done, it far outweighs the Muslim Bans, which I fully expect to get through the Supreme court now that we have Gorsuch sitting on the bench.
Perhaps "Trump/Ryan care" was too much too fast, but I also expect that to ultimately be passed, perhaps not at the moment in in a year or do.
In any case, we're in for an extremely bumpy ride and I expect that things will never be the same again.
4
you know what? it's not funny. trump is unfit. trump is pushing us towards war with N. Korea. It's not a joke. Millions of lives are at stake. Spend you time pushing the Senate to get off the pot and get on with their investigation. this banter is fiddle playing while rome burns.
7
Interesting that conservatives complain about college students protesting their hate speech. Anne Coulter only says things to spark anger. Milo Yiannopolis is the same (and even Breitbart stopped his "free speech" when he vocally supported pedophilia).
College students aren't being intolerant. Coulter, Yiannopolis, and other shock-speakers have nothing new to add to the conversation. Why allow them to spread hate in your home?
College students aren't being intolerant. Coulter, Yiannopolis, and other shock-speakers have nothing new to add to the conversation. Why allow them to spread hate in your home?
6
Gail I have always enjoyed. Matt Labash? Never heard of him - until today. To state the obvious, and not appear condescending, he is good. A little taste of the Gore Vidal-William Buckley tete a tete, without the blows!
4
Sorry, but I don't think you can engage Republican pundits in a genuine "conversation" these days, although Gail tried her best at times to get Matt to delve into several issues more deeply. Doesn't happen. Didn't happen with the other GOP pundits Gail held conversations with either.
Money, Citizens United, special interest and media politics being what they are in our current culture, the bobble-head GOP media types merely come in with their talking points, all eager to play gotcha politics against Democrats, Obama, science, facts, equal rights, empathy, caring, and the well being of people and the planet.
There is no "conversation" without a give and take, without considering the other person's point of view, and advancing the communication to some understanding, options, or solutions.
These "conversations" Gail attempts to have with Republicans remind me of what Piaget said about toddlers and preschoolers. He observed that young children engage in what he called "collective monologues." Two little children may mimic the idea of a conversation, but they are not really listening to each other, and each child simply babbles on about a topic without acknowledging what the other child said.
Culturally, this all seems to be part of our right-wing Republican regressive politics--"regressive" both figuratively and literally.
Money, Citizens United, special interest and media politics being what they are in our current culture, the bobble-head GOP media types merely come in with their talking points, all eager to play gotcha politics against Democrats, Obama, science, facts, equal rights, empathy, caring, and the well being of people and the planet.
There is no "conversation" without a give and take, without considering the other person's point of view, and advancing the communication to some understanding, options, or solutions.
These "conversations" Gail attempts to have with Republicans remind me of what Piaget said about toddlers and preschoolers. He observed that young children engage in what he called "collective monologues." Two little children may mimic the idea of a conversation, but they are not really listening to each other, and each child simply babbles on about a topic without acknowledging what the other child said.
Culturally, this all seems to be part of our right-wing Republican regressive politics--"regressive" both figuratively and literally.
137
I had a similar reaction. There was no discussion of how we can move forward or even discussion of the need to be able to move forward. Matt's reaction to the situation seems to be to simple tune out and withdraw from the world. I heard a young Frenchman comment on the news recently that he would not vote because he did not like either the the choices in the coming election. This attitude is ludicrous and the reason we have a con man as president of the US. Tuning out will be difficult when the bombs begin to fall. The world will not be allright if we do take responsibility for it.
4
"Like any demagogue worth his salt, Trump’s a false-hope merchant."
True, but he ran against someone who did not even bother.
It is like the French establishment running an investment banker who promises to make France more like Germany and the US -- about the one thing that could drive French voters to the alternative who gives at least false hope of being French.
True, but he ran against someone who did not even bother.
It is like the French establishment running an investment banker who promises to make France more like Germany and the US -- about the one thing that could drive French voters to the alternative who gives at least false hope of being French.
3
I don't believe that "Red America" - or at least the white managerial class male part of it -as Mr. Labash suggests, is strongly motivated by annoyance at the obligation to treat others (women, minorities of all kinds) with respect. Fox News, though, Red America's orchestrater, in retrospect, seems quite motivated by it.
9
"pass a law against more efficient technology"? Wow. From a Republican (who admittedly hate politicians). Aren't R's for LESS regulation?? Just wow.
6
I quite agree with you Gail. His lengthy diatribe was a nutty right-wing screed and not collegial at all. You were so right to call it out for what it was. I think you need someone with a better developed sense of humor as his seems forced and phony. Go back to David who was thoughtful and equipped with a wry sense of humor.
7
Gail's former sparring partner was Arthur Brooks, not David Brooks. But I agree that David Brooks' style of big picture, character focused conservatism would make for better reading paired with Gail's good natured humor.
1
"But both tend to be morally rudderless, interested solely in sustaining themselves and for sale to the highest bidder."
- Amen.
- Amen.
9
"I personally know tons of Trump supports — upper-middle and upper class among them — for whom the anti-PC pushback made them reach for their MAGA hats."
So what does that mean? That America is better off if people feel free to discriminate, harass and demean those they feel are "other"? I suppose O'Reilly is getting a raw deal because he was punished (if you call a $24M payoff punishment) for just expressing himself? I would admit that some PC backlash is warranted but Trump's rhetoric is clearly aimed at the dark, mean-spirited side of the "upper class" who have theirs but are threatened when others challenge the status quo. That's no reason to "embraced the way Trump talked.".
So what does that mean? That America is better off if people feel free to discriminate, harass and demean those they feel are "other"? I suppose O'Reilly is getting a raw deal because he was punished (if you call a $24M payoff punishment) for just expressing himself? I would admit that some PC backlash is warranted but Trump's rhetoric is clearly aimed at the dark, mean-spirited side of the "upper class" who have theirs but are threatened when others challenge the status quo. That's no reason to "embraced the way Trump talked.".
12
Anti PC is just an excuse to be rude.
6
Quote from ML
"And I understand why Trump infuriates people. Often, he infuriates me. But don’t you think that at some point, the wall-to-wall 24-7 outrage industrial complex — the Rachel Maddowization of America"
you have got to be kidding: you are blaming outrage on the liberals ? Do you even know who Lee Atwater is ? (lets not forget the senate face against M Celand)
Or how Newt started "democrat" party ?
Have you even ever listened to talk radio, that guy called rush, nevermind say mark levin or his ilk ?
"And I understand why Trump infuriates people. Often, he infuriates me. But don’t you think that at some point, the wall-to-wall 24-7 outrage industrial complex — the Rachel Maddowization of America"
you have got to be kidding: you are blaming outrage on the liberals ? Do you even know who Lee Atwater is ? (lets not forget the senate face against M Celand)
Or how Newt started "democrat" party ?
Have you even ever listened to talk radio, that guy called rush, nevermind say mark levin or his ilk ?
31
Matt - 1) no idea who you are but I think you forgot to take your meds, 2) if you want to complain about the ACA you better come up with a better example than $350 a month with a $3000 deductible because that is pretty reasonable, 3) a) given your palpable anger issues it is ironic that you would warn against people getting too angry about too many things, and b) no - we are not in danger from Maddowization, we are in danger from Trump and from the Democrats not getting angry enough.
22
I have healthcare insurance through my employer, and would consider $350 a month with a $3000 deductible a gift. Anxiously awaiting single-payer.
6
Fake news and the alternative facts as the one Ivanka went preach in Germany about her father's "advocacy for women". Maybe next will be the president's welcome to Syrian refugees?
6
The conflict isn't between right and left, or Democrat and Republican. The inherent conflict is between capital and labor. When capital wins, labor loses. When labor wins, we all win.
7
The bosses have always known that if they can get the white working stiff to fear and hate the black or brown working stiff they will have an easier time stealing from everyone.
Do these bosses not remember the Bastille?
Do these bosses not remember the Bastille?
3
2 things: the latest survey, which shows that 96% of Trump voters would vote for him again (and 15% of HRC voters would not vote for her again) is extremely revealing. It shows that for Republicans, politics is a team sport. They don't care if the people they voted for cary out their promises, so long as they call themselves Republicans and hold power. Opposite for democrats: they abandoned a progressive female and chose to buy into the Republican narrative, even though these same people think Republicans are consummate liars. Conclusion: no amount of evidence will change most people's minds.
This leads to my 2nd point: democrats did not abandon labor; labor abandoned democrats. That's why WJC backed NAFTA (which, according to Matt, was Bill's baby even though conception started with Bush Sr. Way to pass the buck!) Republicans were all about free trade back when Democrats were still protectionist union-lovers, yet labor abandoned unions and voted Republican anyway. Now that free trade has cost labor their jobs, you'd think they'd blame the party responsible (i.e. primarily themselves), but instead they place blame on the very party who worked for decades to protect them. Suddenly, as Gail astutely points out, Republicans no longer love free trade, blame the democrats for all the trade imbalances, win all three branches of government, and then do nothing to help labor. What does labor do in return? See my first point.
Maybe democrats just need to switch their jerseys.
This leads to my 2nd point: democrats did not abandon labor; labor abandoned democrats. That's why WJC backed NAFTA (which, according to Matt, was Bill's baby even though conception started with Bush Sr. Way to pass the buck!) Republicans were all about free trade back when Democrats were still protectionist union-lovers, yet labor abandoned unions and voted Republican anyway. Now that free trade has cost labor their jobs, you'd think they'd blame the party responsible (i.e. primarily themselves), but instead they place blame on the very party who worked for decades to protect them. Suddenly, as Gail astutely points out, Republicans no longer love free trade, blame the democrats for all the trade imbalances, win all three branches of government, and then do nothing to help labor. What does labor do in return? See my first point.
Maybe democrats just need to switch their jerseys.
8
Matt, Gail is more intelligent than you. Learn from her. Become a liberal. You must have potential since you love dogs. Ann Coulter should be allowed to speak on college campuses when invited by misguided student organizations. Free speech will save this world. What Millenials need to learn is to respond thoughtfully and THEN condemn everything she says.
7
That poor Scottie dog.
Although I wish that Gail had instead countered that the GOP have had over 6 years to come up with an alternative for Obamacare, and haven't.
Although I wish that Gail had instead countered that the GOP have had over 6 years to come up with an alternative for Obamacare, and haven't.
5
I know this was written for some humor, but I'm not amused. My heart is extremely heavy that the NYT did not receive an invitation to the conservative press gathering yesterday at the White House.
How did our country become so divisive so quickly? Isn't this atmosphere a violation of our constitution when the administration selects organizations based on preferences versus representation? In other words, aren't we all Americans? Shameful!
How did our country become so divisive so quickly? Isn't this atmosphere a violation of our constitution when the administration selects organizations based on preferences versus representation? In other words, aren't we all Americans? Shameful!
4
More fake news for you to read -
o Remember that widely publicized photo of Vice President Mike Pence,? You know, the one where #2 is strutting around the DMZ in his brand new military bomber jacket, looking remarkably like "W" as he declared his "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq? It's called a 'coupe' by the Fake Intelligence Community. Time to pack up the WhiteHouse silverware.
o Trudeau has secretly announced that Canada will be selling its oil for gold equivalence value instead of U.S. dollars. Canada needs to restore its gold reserves since you have declared 'war' on its exports. Canada mines gold too.
o The Markets are buoyed by the French Election results because La Pen is the underdog who is now going to win after Putin rigs the voting machines this week - just like your surprise victory.
o Remember that widely publicized photo of Vice President Mike Pence,? You know, the one where #2 is strutting around the DMZ in his brand new military bomber jacket, looking remarkably like "W" as he declared his "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq? It's called a 'coupe' by the Fake Intelligence Community. Time to pack up the WhiteHouse silverware.
o Trudeau has secretly announced that Canada will be selling its oil for gold equivalence value instead of U.S. dollars. Canada needs to restore its gold reserves since you have declared 'war' on its exports. Canada mines gold too.
o The Markets are buoyed by the French Election results because La Pen is the underdog who is now going to win after Putin rigs the voting machines this week - just like your surprise victory.
1
Speaking of John Quincy Adams....seems like an alligator would be the perfect pet for Trump - at home in the swamp lands and willing to take a chunk out of anything.
9
If anything could reconcile me to Trump (not likely), it is the fact that he does NOT have a dog. Add to this his multiple marriages, his pretty young wife who keeps away from him as much as possible, and his complicated relationships with his many children - and I almost begin to like the guy (until I remember that he gets lessons in history from a five-minute conversation with heads of state). I despise the American fake idyll of "the family" that politicians and even ordinary people are forced to comply with. When I tell my friends that I don't like dogs, can't stand babies and believe that divorce is the best thing that can happen in a majority of marriages, their eyes go round with shock. And yet their marriages are boring, their children ungrateful, and their dogs stink. When everybody praised Obama for his "family values", I could not understand why it was relevant. I'd rather have a libertine who knows how to govern than a decent man who is feckless and weak. Unfortunately now we have a libertine (or at least a man who used to be one) but with not an ounce of brain, experience or knowledge. Still, at least he has no pets.
Thank goodness for Gail Collins.
1
Arguably, America is in a continual state of war.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
And so as we go from one so called enemy to the other, we chip away at the truth until all that is left is “fake news” if you will.
The first casualty of war is the truth.
And so as we go from one so called enemy to the other, we chip away at the truth until all that is left is “fake news” if you will.
2
Pretty sure Medicare is the sneak peak.
2
I like this guy, Gail!!
You should keep him!
You should keep him!
1
These Gail vs. a Republicans things don't work for me.
Snappy good dialogue. I like it. Keep it up.
1
Sarcasm and humor may be the only antidote left....Wonderful back and forth between Collins and Brooks reminiscent of Mark Twain, Oscar Wilde, and Will Rogers....
One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction.
Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose....Woody Allen.
Thanks Arthur and Gail......as the Brits would say, 'brilliant'.
One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction.
Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose....Woody Allen.
Thanks Arthur and Gail......as the Brits would say, 'brilliant'.
2
Who does this child think would and does vote to raise the minimum wage and protect the safety net? The Koch brothers? I understand that the Times is trying its level best to find an honest conservative for Gail to spar with. The problem is that there just aren't any. Every single last one of these over privileged panderers (fly fishing, really?) pretends to support the working class joe while voting for every candidate that wants to destroy them. Frankly, this group doesn't deserve Obamacare. If there was some way to exempt them from getting decent coverage so they wouldn't have to admit that the dreaded federal government saved their lives, I'd sure consider it. Have a long cool drink of that water that is polluted by the coal sludge you fought so hard to dump. That's the taste of freedom, you cretins. (Yeah, that's a French word. What are you going to do about it?)
13
And the point of this whole oped piece- you have your facts and I have mine and bottom line we are doomed with this guy in charge.
One comment for Mr. Labash, snarky though it may be: "reticence" and "reluctance" are not synonyms. I'm pretty sure you wanted the latter when discussing the right's refusal to play ball on health care coverage.
4
Because they certainly were not in the least reticent regarding their reluctance. Thank you for pointing this out.
Did you lose Arthur Brooks after finally realizing that neocons aren't funny, just insufferable?
6
Hey, Matt, you know what we call the 'train wreck' of 'government run healthcare'?
Medicare.
And as for your friend who is outraged that she has to pay $350 a month for health insurance, does she also complain about how outrageous it is to have car insurance?
Because just like she's never going to get sick, she's never going to have an accident, right?
But mostly ... do Republicans really believe that everyone else is as stupid as they are?
Medicare.
And as for your friend who is outraged that she has to pay $350 a month for health insurance, does she also complain about how outrageous it is to have car insurance?
Because just like she's never going to get sick, she's never going to have an accident, right?
But mostly ... do Republicans really believe that everyone else is as stupid as they are?
12
The Rachel Maddowization of America? Someone seems to have forgotten the last 8 years of outrage - maybe the Fox Newsification of America, or the Sean Hannitization of America - over every.single.action Obama took.
15
I think that we on The Left may be preliminarily exploring a new plane of existence in Trump's America. The number of times we repeat the latest idiotic non sequitur of The Donald and his retinue appears to be decreasing, slowly, and instead, we are now focusing our attention more on trying to Understand The Right. Not, I hasten to add, in order to determine whether they possess policy nuggets we could incorporate into our own programs, but more about better familiarizing ourselves with the enemy in order to vanquish him For Reals next time.
1
Gail, watch out, you will be a fool to take Matt up on his invite for dinner at his place; this guy is not only super smart. but also sneaky. He is after-all a Trumpian and will try to pry you from your liberal base to this Conservative bastion. But you are a big girl Gail, so go ahead and accede at your own peril.
That poor dog, he's been Trumped. As a lifelong dog person, I'm not happy. Donald, step away from the dog. Slowly, and permanently. Seriously.
2
I was starting to like Matt Labash:
Gail: As far as I can tell, Trump’s never had a pet in his life.
Matt: Not true! He had Chris Christie.
But as I read further:
"But at some point, the wall-to-wall 24-7 outrage industrial complex - the Rachel Maddowization of America - helps him more than it hurts him? When everyone is outraged about everything, nothing seems outrageous anymore. Anyone who remembers the embattled Clinton presidency knows this already."
- Um, you conveniently forgot to mention FoxNews, Limbaugh, Hannity, and how the Republi-Cants treated Pres Obama.
"About the same likelihood as Dems becoming collegial, coequal partners in the search for enlightenment and understanding of the Trump voter."
- It was a Republi-Can't who stated "the single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."
"If the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care, you might forgive their reticence."
- The ACA has struggled because the Republi-Cants have tried to sabotage it at every step! Where is it failing? In the Red states (e.g. Oklahoma) that refused to participate in the exchanges/marketplace!
"Well, all I know is what I read in the fake news."
- Well Matt, if you're going to be taken seriously by readers of the NYTimes, you're going to have to get your head out of the world of fake news. Your writing is more humorous when it's based on the absurdity of our current reality.
Gail: As far as I can tell, Trump’s never had a pet in his life.
Matt: Not true! He had Chris Christie.
But as I read further:
"But at some point, the wall-to-wall 24-7 outrage industrial complex - the Rachel Maddowization of America - helps him more than it hurts him? When everyone is outraged about everything, nothing seems outrageous anymore. Anyone who remembers the embattled Clinton presidency knows this already."
- Um, you conveniently forgot to mention FoxNews, Limbaugh, Hannity, and how the Republi-Cants treated Pres Obama.
"About the same likelihood as Dems becoming collegial, coequal partners in the search for enlightenment and understanding of the Trump voter."
- It was a Republi-Can't who stated "the single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."
"If the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care, you might forgive their reticence."
- The ACA has struggled because the Republi-Cants have tried to sabotage it at every step! Where is it failing? In the Red states (e.g. Oklahoma) that refused to participate in the exchanges/marketplace!
"Well, all I know is what I read in the fake news."
- Well Matt, if you're going to be taken seriously by readers of the NYTimes, you're going to have to get your head out of the world of fake news. Your writing is more humorous when it's based on the absurdity of our current reality.
5
OMG, if I hear one more right wing talking head or politician claim incorrectly that Obamacare is a failure I think I may package my vomit and send it to them. Don't you people ever read the statistics? If the ACA, whose form was conceived in the Heritage Foundation and birthed in Mitt Romney's Mass., does fail the nation it will be because DT and the Republican Right starve it of funds while building a Wall and investing in armaments instead of fixing the problems it does have.
You know what's not even amusing anymore? You own the freakin' government and yet you can't help but COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN about the other guy. Give us a break and do something besides taking vacations and arguing with your fellow Republicans about how to most efficiently screw John Q. Voter and have him pay for it!
You know what's not even amusing anymore? You own the freakin' government and yet you can't help but COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN about the other guy. Give us a break and do something besides taking vacations and arguing with your fellow Republicans about how to most efficiently screw John Q. Voter and have him pay for it!
4
I have long read Collins columns with a reluctant eye, as I have no faith that her good nature poking at issues does anything other than wrinkle a lip for a few seconds, as the issues and problems multiply. Quality editorial time and space is severely limited these days , and these days are the darkest our country has seen in almost 80 years. Then, to read this light hearted exchange revolted me.
I realize the intellect and powers of rationalization of readers of these columns is abundant, but ANYONE who can make light of David Duke is as dangerous as Duke themselves. And using the 'fake news' label even in jest is just foolish. The very real danger facing those on the left, whether progressives, liberal, open-minded, take your pick, is they severely underestimate or ignore their opponents hatred. I saw Kamau Bell of CNN have a face to face discussion with Richard Spencer, and Mr. Bell is bantering and giggling ( if only sarcastically) with Mr. Spencer, who is equally convivial. I shudder, as in my heart I know Mr. Spencer would stand by and cheer and smirk while the white nationalists he represents would hang Kamau Bell from a tree and slit his throat. There I said it,
I realize the intellect and powers of rationalization of readers of these columns is abundant, but ANYONE who can make light of David Duke is as dangerous as Duke themselves. And using the 'fake news' label even in jest is just foolish. The very real danger facing those on the left, whether progressives, liberal, open-minded, take your pick, is they severely underestimate or ignore their opponents hatred. I saw Kamau Bell of CNN have a face to face discussion with Richard Spencer, and Mr. Bell is bantering and giggling ( if only sarcastically) with Mr. Spencer, who is equally convivial. I shudder, as in my heart I know Mr. Spencer would stand by and cheer and smirk while the white nationalists he represents would hang Kamau Bell from a tree and slit his throat. There I said it,
4
Gail could be funny debating a cardboard cut out but this session isn't really engaging, maybe because Trump is such a disaster.
3
Matt tries too hard, makes little sense, is a lightweight intellectually, is not funny, and knows his astrological sign.
He's a good republican, in other words.
He's a good republican, in other words.
3
No, his is not a moribund "art". This is what some intelligent reader would call "rice with mango". A grave to a loose snobbery, of bar of dark canteen. If someone asked pirque died writing journalism, they would take him to the pantheon where those who, for lack of ideas and critical and informative capacity, made us feel ashamed of their ridiculous posture and respect for the readers. I do not know why, as I read them, I felt transposed into that hollow world described by Scott Fitzgerald in his Gatsby. Tom and Daisy looking lazily at an Italian balcony.
"Politician" is how you spell "liar" when the "R" key on your keyboard doesn't work.
2
Color me naïve, but there are a few, of the many politicians, that are dedicated in there service to the people. But unfortunately, there is enormous pecuniary incentive, in and out of government, to promote our differences and thereby creating/perpetuating conflicts rather than resolving them.
In short, a race to the bottom----money out of politics!
In short, a race to the bottom----money out of politics!
1
Trump is morally and ethically bankrupt. He is not someone to be witty or funny about. He is removing anyone from government who can convict him of a crime and he is about to set a nuclear holocaust in action.
Do not make fun of Trump! He has to be removed from office and spend all your time and efforts to see that he is impeached and removed. There is no laughter, there is no good at all. He has got to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do not make fun of Trump! He has to be removed from office and spend all your time and efforts to see that he is impeached and removed. There is no laughter, there is no good at all. He has got to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1
"...up and down the economic ladder, pipe fitters and corporate drones alike embraced the way Trump talked." Understood. What I can't understand is how the electorate, up and down the ladder, has become so uninformed that so many didn't understand that the talk was absolutely without substance, just whatever he thought people wanted to hear at any given moment. "I'll bring the jobs back...I'll fix health insurance...I'll make America [white] again. I'll give every [white] American family a neat house in a leafy suburb with a new car in the driveway and the Brady Bunch next door..."
2
No amount of clever bonhomie (I actually like it) can cover the fact (fact!) that much of the hoo ha wrecking actual discourse came from Trump adopting whatever nutso point he made to his groupie rallies that got the most screams and foot stomping. Now those applause points are Presidential policy, and our precious country is in a flat spin headed toward the hard, hard earth of reality. Not a laughing matter. Still, bless you Gail for smiling through the storm.
2
That PC pushback is considered a motivator for Trump supporters is particularly unfortunate. "PC" is a non-issue, something bandied about in comments sections and blogs on the internet, a red herring that became another false rallying cry to get people to vote against the black guy and the woman. It's a shame.
Also disheartening: when smart guys like Labash speak so dismissively of "the train wreck of Obamacare" to assert their political views. With all of the concessions that had to be made thanks to the GOP, Obamacare is still far better than the nothing we had before.
Also disheartening: when smart guys like Labash speak so dismissively of "the train wreck of Obamacare" to assert their political views. With all of the concessions that had to be made thanks to the GOP, Obamacare is still far better than the nothing we had before.
2
Your statement that PC is a non-issue (for you) actually shows how tone-deaf politically correct people are to anybody who objects being stampeded into PC views. I think Trump got a lot of votes from people who could no longer stand being browbeaten by righteous self-referencing PC lemmings.
Please, it's "whom I've profled," not who. If NYT can't get it right, we are doomed.
*I personally know tons of Trump supports — upper-middle and upper class among them — for whom the anti-PC pushback made them reach for their MAGA hats."
The anti-PC movement was fueled in large part by President Obama's very measured speaking style in a clear attempt to speak for and to EVERYONE. He was politically correct, but at least he was usually CORRECT.
Trump, on the other hand, gets high marks for seeming to speak his mind freely, unfettered by any careful speech. Doesn't matter that he is a pathological liar and a con man.
Anti-PC is seen as REFRESHING by Trump supporters (aka the White majority) because they are either too GD lazy or too racist to be able to figure out how all-inclusive language applies to them without offense since it doesn't first and foremost honor their self-perceived rightful place at the very top of dominant culture.
If anti-PC was a top motivator it is because too many "conservative" white people felt threatened by a lack of discrimination against minorities, a traditional American viewpoint that messages and validates white superiority in the day-to-day in public, on television, and in the White House.
If minorities get too much attention, then the white mob feels threatened because they irrationally feel marginalized, or not special enough. You know, like snowflakes.
The anti-PC movement was fueled in large part by President Obama's very measured speaking style in a clear attempt to speak for and to EVERYONE. He was politically correct, but at least he was usually CORRECT.
Trump, on the other hand, gets high marks for seeming to speak his mind freely, unfettered by any careful speech. Doesn't matter that he is a pathological liar and a con man.
Anti-PC is seen as REFRESHING by Trump supporters (aka the White majority) because they are either too GD lazy or too racist to be able to figure out how all-inclusive language applies to them without offense since it doesn't first and foremost honor their self-perceived rightful place at the very top of dominant culture.
If anti-PC was a top motivator it is because too many "conservative" white people felt threatened by a lack of discrimination against minorities, a traditional American viewpoint that messages and validates white superiority in the day-to-day in public, on television, and in the White House.
If minorities get too much attention, then the white mob feels threatened because they irrationally feel marginalized, or not special enough. You know, like snowflakes.
Bow wow ! I will roll over, sit and beg for more treats from Gail and Matt.
1
NYTimes editors STILL don't understand that 'reticent' doesn't mean simply 'reluctant'?!?! This is another NYC pseudo literacy fashion trend like the one from the 90s when they all thought 'fortuitous' meant 'lucky'. Y'all dumbin' us down, boys n' girls.
"About the same likelihood as Dems becoming collegial, coequal partners in the search for enlightenment and understanding of the Trump voter, to go all Tibetan on you."
venture out of your milieu and speak with trump voters..... you can't understand them because almost all f the things they believe are not true. if you have to deny climate change, believe "clean" coal will bring the jobs back, think a 20% tariff will make mexico pay for the wall, think sending 11.5 million illegals back is a good idea (much less possible), believe trump saved jobs at carrier, believe obama never showed his birth certificate etc etc etc.? why bother? the world is complicated and fast moving and it is hard to keep up..... but these people don't even try. they long for simplicity while clinging to the insane promises of an idiot.
venture out of your milieu and speak with trump voters..... you can't understand them because almost all f the things they believe are not true. if you have to deny climate change, believe "clean" coal will bring the jobs back, think a 20% tariff will make mexico pay for the wall, think sending 11.5 million illegals back is a good idea (much less possible), believe trump saved jobs at carrier, believe obama never showed his birth certificate etc etc etc.? why bother? the world is complicated and fast moving and it is hard to keep up..... but these people don't even try. they long for simplicity while clinging to the insane promises of an idiot.
5
Matt! Dude! Look at your answers. Notice the size and the tone. You're Mansplaining, man. Sorry. I am hopelessly in love with Gail. She makes me laugh in the face of the Apocalypse. But, you do make a perfect foil. She only needs two lines of print to your eighteen. Loved, "since God was in short pants."
2
Oh, that disturbing pic.
Clearly he's never held a dog before. He's holding it as if he's going to throw it. Uncomfortable for everyone.
Clearly he's never held a dog before. He's holding it as if he's going to throw it. Uncomfortable for everyone.
Check out the expression on the dog's face. According to the credit, the shot was taken at the Westminster Dog Show, so that's one well-trained dog and its focus is probably on its handler. Otherwise, the dog being a Scotty, the person holding the dog in that fashion would probably have had his face and a few other parts bitten off.
1
Every time I read criticism from people on the "right" about what they think people on the "left" care about or are angry about they get it totally wrong. No, it's not about bathrooms, gender, who marries who, or who speaks at college campuses.
I am furious because we have elected officials who are hired to do a job to work for all American people and they work almost exclusively for the few ultra rich and corporations. They don't care one bit about the rest of us. In fact, they are actively trying to make our lives worse. Unless they are the stupidest people on the planet, screwing us over is all part of their plan. Are some of these scumbags Democrats? Absolutely. But look at how elected officials vote and what ideas they are selling and you will see that there are far more of these disreputable, duty-shirking liars on the Republican side. Who keeps peddling that failed "trickle down economics?" Who wants to sell you the idiotic idea that corporations need to pollute in order for our country to be prosperous and for you to have a job? Who thinks that corporations that already exploit fancy tax laws and loopholes created for their benefit should now have an even lower tax rate?
My middle class family and millions like mine pay taxes that support these arrogant liars to do what? To screw over 99% of all American citizens. Get it right about what the "left" is angry about.
I am furious because we have elected officials who are hired to do a job to work for all American people and they work almost exclusively for the few ultra rich and corporations. They don't care one bit about the rest of us. In fact, they are actively trying to make our lives worse. Unless they are the stupidest people on the planet, screwing us over is all part of their plan. Are some of these scumbags Democrats? Absolutely. But look at how elected officials vote and what ideas they are selling and you will see that there are far more of these disreputable, duty-shirking liars on the Republican side. Who keeps peddling that failed "trickle down economics?" Who wants to sell you the idiotic idea that corporations need to pollute in order for our country to be prosperous and for you to have a job? Who thinks that corporations that already exploit fancy tax laws and loopholes created for their benefit should now have an even lower tax rate?
My middle class family and millions like mine pay taxes that support these arrogant liars to do what? To screw over 99% of all American citizens. Get it right about what the "left" is angry about.
1
I find Mr. Labash's comments far too vitriolic, albeit served with a garnish of ersatz bonhomie: given Gail's unfailing brilliance in her vital role as NYTimes truthteller (along with Krugman and Blow), surely a more appropriate foil could be found for her incisive wit in these exchanges than this nastily snarky red-state defender.
3
Sure......the most FAKE NEWS FACT....is that Donald J. Trump is a FAKE and
a CROOK....I think Trump wins on being the most FAKE President ever...
Winning no matter what...being Famous or Infamous....I think Trump wins on
being the WORST man ever to be President of this country...
Cannot wait to he is impeached for TREASON !!!
a CROOK....I think Trump wins on being the most FAKE President ever...
Winning no matter what...being Famous or Infamous....I think Trump wins on
being the WORST man ever to be President of this country...
Cannot wait to he is impeached for TREASON !!!
2
I like this piece a lot, drenched in humour it still gets the points across. Anything serious or in so called attack mode, instantly gets labelled fake new.
Matt tries his hardest to objective and supportive of Trump, after all that
is the nature of the piece, you need humour in these dark days.
Matt tries his hardest to objective and supportive of Trump, after all that
is the nature of the piece, you need humour in these dark days.
48
Matt considers Obamacare an example of government-run healthcare when it is really run by health insurers. A fairer example would be Medicare which IS government-run healthcare for senior Americans private insurers did not want to insure.
My employer no longer offers any healthcare. I would probably not be able to afford any healthcare coverage were it not for Medicare. My premium is $109 a month with a $183 annual deductible. Compare that to $350 with a $3,000 deductible for someone younger and presumably less in need of medical care.
Medicare for all would be the best solution, but since Republicans have maintained since 1964 that it is the end of Western civilization as we know it and they never change their minds, we will never have it as long as Republicans control Congress.
My employer no longer offers any healthcare. I would probably not be able to afford any healthcare coverage were it not for Medicare. My premium is $109 a month with a $183 annual deductible. Compare that to $350 with a $3,000 deductible for someone younger and presumably less in need of medical care.
Medicare for all would be the best solution, but since Republicans have maintained since 1964 that it is the end of Western civilization as we know it and they never change their minds, we will never have it as long as Republicans control Congress.
53
I believe the political wedge is to advocate Medicare for all children. Make the opponents of healthcare for children declare themselves on the floor of the House and Senate in the month before the 2018 election.
1
Obamacare is not a train wreck, Mr. Labash. It insured more than 30 million Americans who previously weren't, lowered costs for most people, and contributed to a regenerating economy. Were some people's healthcare bills raised? Yes, that's going to happen when so many millions are involved. But even that was mostly because the Republicans were steadfastly opposed to measures that would have improved the lot of more people.
50
And actually in the case of Mr. Labash's sister, $350/month with a $3,000 deductible isn't bad. Ten years ago, before I was old enough for Medicare, the best policy I could find was $1,000/month with a $5,000 deductible. I had a pre-existing condition, of course, as do most people in their 50s and early 60s. Obamacare would have been great for me back then.
1
What exactly is a "pro-labor conservative," and what have they been up to for, say, the last 4 decades?
23
Lesson from the Hedgehogs – Teamwork
It was the coldest winter ever. Many animals died because of the cold.The hedgehogs, realizing the situation, decided to group together to keep warm. This way they covered and protected themselves; but the quills of each one wounded their closest companions.After awhile, they decided to distance themselves one from the other and they began to die, alone and frozen. So they had to make a choice: either accept the quills of their companions or disappear from the Earth. Wisely, they decided to go back to being together. They learned to live with the little wounds caused by the close relationship with their companions in order to receive the heat that came from the others. This way they were able to survive.
Author Unknown
It was the coldest winter ever. Many animals died because of the cold.The hedgehogs, realizing the situation, decided to group together to keep warm. This way they covered and protected themselves; but the quills of each one wounded their closest companions.After awhile, they decided to distance themselves one from the other and they began to die, alone and frozen. So they had to make a choice: either accept the quills of their companions or disappear from the Earth. Wisely, they decided to go back to being together. They learned to live with the little wounds caused by the close relationship with their companions in order to receive the heat that came from the others. This way they were able to survive.
Author Unknown
7
"She was forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible. Which is much like having a mandatory car payment for a car that she could never drive." Poor thing, "forced" to get good insurance. And that payment sounds great. In NYC a mammogram costs more than $500 if you are paying cash.
The "train wreck" of Obamacare does not have anything to do with the effectiveness of government run health care. Medicare is government run and works wonderfully for those who have it. Most civilized countries have government run health care and they pay half what we do per capita, cover everyone and have better outcomes.
If Obamacare is a "train wreck" it is because Obama could not get a public option included (Thank you Senator Joseph Lieberman representing the great state of United Healthcare, Inc.) and because the Republicans in the states and at the federal level did everything they could think of to sabotage it.
If Obamacare is a "train wreck" it is because Obama could not get a public option included (Thank you Senator Joseph Lieberman representing the great state of United Healthcare, Inc.) and because the Republicans in the states and at the federal level did everything they could think of to sabotage it.
18
"A fair impression of a pro-labor conservative."
What's that?
What's that?
6
I wish the gripe over Obamacare was clearly explained, Matt's example doesn't make sense. At $350/mo with $3500, that pays for a Gold Plan for a 60-year old in New York, with coverage as good or better than Blue Cross Blue Shield. To convert that to a Platinum Plan, just divide the deductible by 12 months and that's the monthly premium (approx $650) with NO deductible for someone who 60 years old. Also, with no subsidy for Matt's relative, that means she is making $60K-ish a year ... really $350/mo is not a hardship.
The problem is: no one really explains the options (and benefits) to the Obamacare complainers. I tried this with an avid Trump supporter who had complained about the high deductibles and he had to borrow money just to pay for an important medical procedure. I ask him: Why not try the Platinum Plan? He would have to pay $650-ish/month, and then he'd get the $300/subsidy (his income was low), and he'd be paying $350/month with no deductibles, and (really) the best coverage.
That avid Trump supporter realized: Obamacare wasn't that bad, it was good for him, but he misunderstood it, and he decide to sign-up for Obamacare. That has been my experience with complainers about Obamacare, especially older people. In other words, the Bronze Plan isn't always the cheapest, and the Platinum Plan might be better, especially if one's cash flow is poor.
The problem is: no one really explains the options (and benefits) to the Obamacare complainers. I tried this with an avid Trump supporter who had complained about the high deductibles and he had to borrow money just to pay for an important medical procedure. I ask him: Why not try the Platinum Plan? He would have to pay $650-ish/month, and then he'd get the $300/subsidy (his income was low), and he'd be paying $350/month with no deductibles, and (really) the best coverage.
That avid Trump supporter realized: Obamacare wasn't that bad, it was good for him, but he misunderstood it, and he decide to sign-up for Obamacare. That has been my experience with complainers about Obamacare, especially older people. In other words, the Bronze Plan isn't always the cheapest, and the Platinum Plan might be better, especially if one's cash flow is poor.
37
Thanks to both of you for a lovely heart warming chat. I'm going back to bed.
5
As for the ACA, the insurance companies insisted on being invited to the party, or they wouldn't let it happen, and when they trashed the place, everyone blamed the host.
9
Dems actually had retraining programs, which were a mess, and a realistic plan to fix them. States that embraced the full vision of ACA actually did well. Looking Kansas for the reality of Republican economic theory once it has been applied. Since Reagan started defunding public education and news became infotainment (ratings for an empty stage while ignoring real news CNN) our nation has suffered. Gerrymandering and voting rights are bipartisan issues I'd hope to see discussed as those are concrete steps that help our populations. And, let's get ruined the electoral college! Congress already advantages low population states!
5
"I sense where we break is that you have faith in “your side,” while I distrust “my side” nearly as much as I distrust yours. Mine just taxes me less. But both tend to be morally rudderless, interested solely in sustaining themselves and for sale to the highest bidder. "
The is a strong difference on the environment.
The is a strong difference on the environment.
2
Have you two considered the possibility of actually focusing on a serious discussion instead of so doggedly witty and clever?
6
I find it ever "charming" that Republicans, having succeeded in pushing our country further and further to the "Right", to the extent that Democratic candidates for office have felt it necessary to adopt their positions on matters such as free trade (NAFTA), heath-care (the Heritage-inspired ACA), and War (drone strikes, special operations on foreign soil, etc.), or risk seeming naïve and unserious by comparison to their conservative brethren, then routinely denounce said Democrats for advocating the very policies they themselves made politically palatable a decade or so earlier.
Chutzpah, thy name is "Republican"...
Chutzpah, thy name is "Republican"...
6
This is almost unreadable. When did the back and for of two writers ever make for an interesting read. Perhaps they should do podcasts instead. The only two that ever did this well is click and clack. Conservatives I shall remind you are exclusives, unwelcoming of true discourse, and in the case of our current president a mouthpiece, not a leader.
2
Thanks to both for taking the edge off the rancor of political differences. We need more of this kind of discourse (even though Gail is mostly right).
"She was forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible. Which is much like having a mandatory car payment for a car that she could never drive."
And just what do you think the average employment-based plan looks like? Her plan is actually pretty good.
And because of the requirements for basic preventive care, she IS getting something for her money. And, oh: insurance. Against crippling medical bills.
The idea that deductibles are too high (a GOP talking point) is ridiculous when they also talk about "skin in the game" and personal responsibility.
So your relative is paying $4,200 a year for basic preventive medical care and health insurance against catastrophe. If she has medical expenses that meet the deductible, her total annual cap would be $7,200. That's not cheap, but it's better than the alternative.
And just what do you think the average employment-based plan looks like? Her plan is actually pretty good.
And because of the requirements for basic preventive care, she IS getting something for her money. And, oh: insurance. Against crippling medical bills.
The idea that deductibles are too high (a GOP talking point) is ridiculous when they also talk about "skin in the game" and personal responsibility.
So your relative is paying $4,200 a year for basic preventive medical care and health insurance against catastrophe. If she has medical expenses that meet the deductible, her total annual cap would be $7,200. That's not cheap, but it's better than the alternative.
7
"which aside from appointing Neil Gorsuch, is his signature achievement so far."....I would point out that the only reason Grosuch was successfully appointed is that the Senate eliminated the filibuster. Having to eliminate the filibuster to get your Supreme Court nominee approved hardly stands as evidence of a ringing success.
10
People had bumper stickers saying: “Vote for the Crook. It’s Important.” Can’t hate that story.
That effectively describes Trump's genius campaign where he cheerfully admitted to being a successful cheat in every way, which gave the impression of "honesty" additionally giving him the opportunity to claim he'd been saved and now wanted to use that expertise to work for "the people", not mentioning that he really meant his people, billionaires and corporate crooks. Say what you will about Trump, he deserves that Ph.D in Con Artistry!
I think if Trump does nothing else, a stance that I would support wholeheartedly, he will show voters once and for all the folly of imagining that ignorance and inexperience is a virtue, something even he might agree is ludicrous now that he has met the Freedom Caucus. But if the latter epiphany was ever to strike, it would be too late, given that it appears to be the guiding principle behind his staffing and cabinet selections where he keeps the least knowledgeable close and the most at arm's length, either in fields they know nothing about with no staff or actively despise.
Oh well, at least he knows the next time he says "who knew how hard" (governing can be?), he'll be surrounded by people who will strongly empathize with his plight.
That effectively describes Trump's genius campaign where he cheerfully admitted to being a successful cheat in every way, which gave the impression of "honesty" additionally giving him the opportunity to claim he'd been saved and now wanted to use that expertise to work for "the people", not mentioning that he really meant his people, billionaires and corporate crooks. Say what you will about Trump, he deserves that Ph.D in Con Artistry!
I think if Trump does nothing else, a stance that I would support wholeheartedly, he will show voters once and for all the folly of imagining that ignorance and inexperience is a virtue, something even he might agree is ludicrous now that he has met the Freedom Caucus. But if the latter epiphany was ever to strike, it would be too late, given that it appears to be the guiding principle behind his staffing and cabinet selections where he keeps the least knowledgeable close and the most at arm's length, either in fields they know nothing about with no staff or actively despise.
Oh well, at least he knows the next time he says "who knew how hard" (governing can be?), he'll be surrounded by people who will strongly empathize with his plight.
3
I never believed in evil conspiracies
I do believe that Trump is the figurehead fronting an agenda for extremely wealthy international business cartels and Billionaire conservatives looking to continue accumulating the worlds wealth and power. This has been a carefully planned step by step plan, carried out to perfection.
The idiotic rhetoric of climate change denial, building a wall, Chinese currency manipulation, etc are meant as distractions as is creating scapegoats of Mexicans and Muslims, while Trump's people steal our money our wealth our health and our future.
The Trump administration is a result of a conservative movement started in the 60's and early 70's as a response to the civil rights movement, the woman's movement a growing liberalism and the backlash to Vietnam.
In the 80's Reagan was successfully deregulating industries, and financial institutions allowing for the regrowth of monopolies (Media, Pharmaceutical, Petroleum, Chemical etc). The Patriot Act after 9/11 allowed for more loss of our Civil rights.
In summary, by 2016, the time was ripe for a complete bloodless coup d'etat in the form of Trump, the Autocrat/Oligarch. The Jingoistic slogan, "Make America Great Again" was the perfect icing on the cake.
I believe I'm right as I watched the U.K.'s leave the E.U., Trump's election and I fully expect Le Pen to win in France.
If we believe that we are still living in a democratic republic, we are fooling ourselves. Please convince me I'm wrong.
I do believe that Trump is the figurehead fronting an agenda for extremely wealthy international business cartels and Billionaire conservatives looking to continue accumulating the worlds wealth and power. This has been a carefully planned step by step plan, carried out to perfection.
The idiotic rhetoric of climate change denial, building a wall, Chinese currency manipulation, etc are meant as distractions as is creating scapegoats of Mexicans and Muslims, while Trump's people steal our money our wealth our health and our future.
The Trump administration is a result of a conservative movement started in the 60's and early 70's as a response to the civil rights movement, the woman's movement a growing liberalism and the backlash to Vietnam.
In the 80's Reagan was successfully deregulating industries, and financial institutions allowing for the regrowth of monopolies (Media, Pharmaceutical, Petroleum, Chemical etc). The Patriot Act after 9/11 allowed for more loss of our Civil rights.
In summary, by 2016, the time was ripe for a complete bloodless coup d'etat in the form of Trump, the Autocrat/Oligarch. The Jingoistic slogan, "Make America Great Again" was the perfect icing on the cake.
I believe I'm right as I watched the U.K.'s leave the E.U., Trump's election and I fully expect Le Pen to win in France.
If we believe that we are still living in a democratic republic, we are fooling ourselves. Please convince me I'm wrong.
1
People are understandably angry about the Trump Gang treating with the Russians. I'm getting increasingly upset with this column. Having polite conversations with well-mannered conservative ideologues in no way helps to deal with America's worsening social and political divides. If anything, it allows racially-motivated Trump voters to feel more comfortable in their bigotry. If anything, it demonstrates how even the most well-meaning liberal journalists suffer clouded vision under the guise of collegiality.
6
Anti-PC mania is the symptom, not the cause. The cause is fear. Our politicians (and especially our media) have been selling fear for decades, quite successfully too. Fear causes "PC" behavior, including the recent insanity at Berkeley. More importantly, it causes people to fall for a person like Trump, who lies virtually every time he speaks, and promises things that, if he were intelligent or thoughtful, he would know either could not or should not happen. Fear lets demagogues like the Republicans in Congress sell us nonsense and cynicism.
The Democrats have an opportunity here. Be the party of "no more fear." Let kids (even 1st graders) walk to school. Put jungle gyms in playgrounds. Stop putting excessive attention to terrorism. Let people more easily enter buildings and airports. Declare freedom from unreasonable fear, and let us be open to progress, advancement, new ideas, and experience. These are liberal values! And they will help the Democratic Party succeed.
The Democrats have an opportunity here. Be the party of "no more fear." Let kids (even 1st graders) walk to school. Put jungle gyms in playgrounds. Stop putting excessive attention to terrorism. Let people more easily enter buildings and airports. Declare freedom from unreasonable fear, and let us be open to progress, advancement, new ideas, and experience. These are liberal values! And they will help the Democratic Party succeed.
3
For all of his crookedness, Edwards was much loved in Louisiana. He was also the last governor to have a budget surplus.
1
Many others have already said what I think, and probably said it better than I would, so I will only add: "good-paying jobs," Gail? Really? I can't believe you don't know better! And yes, it matters.
3
Labash is not very convincing, but he's trying to play a losing hand. He would do well to lean towards a more lighthearted dialogue, and stay away from seriously trying to justify republican politics.
11
Matt needs to lighten up some. Trump never “infuriated” me. Start out with a realistic appreciation of who a man is, add to that a dawning recognition that same-ol’-same-ol’ won’t cut it for the time being in the Oval Office if we’re ever to fix our broken politics and governance model, and add an abiding sense of humor and of the ridiculous (often the same thing) … and you arrive at Donald Trump as president. Inevitably.
HRC never would have made us laugh, and our most iconic newspapers might have been belly-up by now. But, then, she’d never have accomplished anything with the office either but the offering of solid quotes for history written by her 10,000 professional ghosts. While the future is promised to nobody, Trump at least offers the potential for relevance: that’s a better bet than the alternative, and worth both a mass and orange hair, which actually has settled down to a summer blond, undoubtedly due to a better colorist.
We all should consider that Trump is neither a Democrat NOR a Republican. It’s not entirely surprising that he would tick off both sides. But further consider that moving forward will require the ability to forge compromises that neither side likes but that each can just barely live with. It’s not an easy thing to do, and maybe the only one who can is a narcissist who wears road-kill on his head. We’re all in this together, after all, and it’s not in anyone’s interest to see yet another failed presidency. Avec or sans dogs.
HRC never would have made us laugh, and our most iconic newspapers might have been belly-up by now. But, then, she’d never have accomplished anything with the office either but the offering of solid quotes for history written by her 10,000 professional ghosts. While the future is promised to nobody, Trump at least offers the potential for relevance: that’s a better bet than the alternative, and worth both a mass and orange hair, which actually has settled down to a summer blond, undoubtedly due to a better colorist.
We all should consider that Trump is neither a Democrat NOR a Republican. It’s not entirely surprising that he would tick off both sides. But further consider that moving forward will require the ability to forge compromises that neither side likes but that each can just barely live with. It’s not an easy thing to do, and maybe the only one who can is a narcissist who wears road-kill on his head. We’re all in this together, after all, and it’s not in anyone’s interest to see yet another failed presidency. Avec or sans dogs.
1
Sorry, don't find T's antics funny. Especially on foreign policy, which wasn't discussed here, but also on any number of domestic things.
7
You are correct about not wanting to see another failed presidency. The Cheney-Bush years almost did us in.
5
Yes, Trump is neither a Democrat nor a Republican. That is why 50% of his policy attempts/decisions have been Democratic and 50% Republican. This is also why he nominated a centrist supported by all sides to the Supreme Court against whom no Senator could even think about using the filibuster. Who wants the failed Obama presidency over again, filled with useless things like accomplishments and competency. No sir, for us, uninformed blather accompanied by liberal doses of golf and TV watching equals success.
$350/month and $3000 deductible?? Darn good. So she doesn't need it now- but life is unpredictable and unfair (as an oncologist I know this well). Single payer single payer single payer.
333
Does Matt Labash have any idea of what his employer pays for his healthcare on his behalf. I think not.
4
This oncologist totally agrees Nancy. I'm in California. Single payer is a real possibility here
2
Yup, it's called insurance and you have to pay for it, one way or another. Of course, Medicare for all would work better, but 20 million uninsured insured is not bad for a " trainwreck." Gail, Matt is doing better, improving from a D+ to a gentleman's C, but his smug and robotic reiteration of Republican bullet points still grates. I would prefer that you have a witty conversation with yourself, or bring back David Brooks, who is somehow much less preachy and more real (and even funny) in your presence.
4
If there was a Nobel Prize for eclecticism today's column would be a slam dunk. Iconic mental images of John Travolta in the white suit, Julie Andrews on a mountain top, and Don Johnson in a Ferrari , juxtaposed with references to Adolph Hitler, John Quincy Adams, Rachel Maddow, David Duke, Allen Ginsburg, Rosie O'Donnell, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and the formerly ubiquitous Kelly Ann Conway, all in just a few paragraphs, with a potential sound track of "Disco Inferno", "Stayin Alive" or heaven forbid, "The Sound of Music", have taken the term surreal to a new level.
11
Witty? Perhaps to some. Useful? Perhaps to none. Tortured? Surely. Impact? Surly. Relevant? Not. Continue? Stop.
17
Tom Paine said: "These are the times that try men's souls..." Our time seems to be soulless. Nobody seems to have a workable plan for the bulk of society. I have a vague feeling that our soullessness is what allowed Trump to become President who is a man dripping in insincerity. Talk of the coal miners' plight is beating a dead horse. We ought to be helping them imagine a new and different way of life. However, we have a large number of people in our society who hate those who are different because they live with a fear only the ignorant experience. Once upon a time the thought that the earth was round was too fearsome for most folks. We somehow stumbled our way out of that morass. Maybe someone will come along with a reasonable plan who can appeal to the masses. Humankind has done it before, so let's hope!
30
Colleges in Utah don't prohibit speakers from visiting. They just allow the student population to open carry and don't provide personal security. You're free to speak but you'd better hope the audience agrees with you.
But I digress. Politicians of any stripe require a certain skill set in order to become successful. Jimmy Carter might be an exception but then again he wasn't particularly successful. Trump is the anti-Carter in many ways but he seems destined to share Carter's fate. Although, I don't recall Carter parading the widows of Operation Eagle Claw around as a political stunt.
In any event, the necessary skills for a successful politician are generally less than desirable in regular society. To quote Capt. Jack Sparrow, "The deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and mutineers." Politicians aren't that bad but they're not far off. I imagine you'd find them wherever lawyers are kept. In which case, it's a good thing to mistrust and dislike politicians regardless of their political affinity. You'd be socially abnormal not to.
Regarding the budget though, I don't think politicians on either side are going to take the fall for this one. They had the thing pretty well worked out until Trump's ego stepped in. I can imagine Paul Ryan screaming into a paper bag behind the podium. Ultimately though, I think blame for any shutdown is going to get laid down at the front door of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The public might even set the bag on fire and ring the bell.
But I digress. Politicians of any stripe require a certain skill set in order to become successful. Jimmy Carter might be an exception but then again he wasn't particularly successful. Trump is the anti-Carter in many ways but he seems destined to share Carter's fate. Although, I don't recall Carter parading the widows of Operation Eagle Claw around as a political stunt.
In any event, the necessary skills for a successful politician are generally less than desirable in regular society. To quote Capt. Jack Sparrow, "The deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and mutineers." Politicians aren't that bad but they're not far off. I imagine you'd find them wherever lawyers are kept. In which case, it's a good thing to mistrust and dislike politicians regardless of their political affinity. You'd be socially abnormal not to.
Regarding the budget though, I don't think politicians on either side are going to take the fall for this one. They had the thing pretty well worked out until Trump's ego stepped in. I can imagine Paul Ryan screaming into a paper bag behind the podium. Ultimately though, I think blame for any shutdown is going to get laid down at the front door of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The public might even set the bag on fire and ring the bell.
30
It is an insult to compare Jimmy Carter to the current part-time occupant of the White House. Carter was and is intellectually and morally superior to our Bloviator-in-chief. By what standard do you judge success? By the number of gold-plated bathroom fixtures in your palaces? If financial success is the only barometer by which you judge others-and that seems to be increasingly the case in our culture-we are doomed as a society. I would happily exchange DJT for President Carter.
you know, there's nothing the least bit funny about this administration
"All the rage to rage these days." What else is there to do? As a poet once said,
"Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
I am pleased that Gail and Matt can have a nice sit-down and talk about matters without sticking any daggers (well, maybe the occasional verbal one, but in jest) but in the national debate (I use that phrase loosely) that dog's been off the leash so long you're never going to get him collared again.
"Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."
I am pleased that Gail and Matt can have a nice sit-down and talk about matters without sticking any daggers (well, maybe the occasional verbal one, but in jest) but in the national debate (I use that phrase loosely) that dog's been off the leash so long you're never going to get him collared again.
12
We certainly won't collar that dog as long as election districts are gerrymandered and capitalists can spend as much as they want, to buy legislators through paying for the election process.
I consider myself "blue," though not a Democrat, in this era of Trump and I believe that almost anybody should be able to speak, unthreatened and without censorship, at any university, even a cartoon cut-out like Ann Coulter.
She could not utter so much as a syllable in my house, however, if she could ever darken the front door. I am am reasonably certain that she is confused, angry and hurt that she hasn't been invited yet.
She could not utter so much as a syllable in my house, however, if she could ever darken the front door. I am am reasonably certain that she is confused, angry and hurt that she hasn't been invited yet.
10
Enough on the college students already! They have a right to protest against idiots like Coulter who make money by being professional provocateurs and why not use it? Shows they are smart enough to be where they are, IMO.
Berkeley has, what, 35,000 or 40,000 students. How many are actually at the protests? Of that number, how many does it take to start a riot big enough to fill TV screens? A couple dozen. And are the rabble rousers even students in good standing? Who are they anyway?
Why should universities allow speakers that are going to bring violence on their campuses? Is this what parents who pay tuition want?
There is plenty of free speech on the Internet. Maybe too much.
Berkeley has, what, 35,000 or 40,000 students. How many are actually at the protests? Of that number, how many does it take to start a riot big enough to fill TV screens? A couple dozen. And are the rabble rousers even students in good standing? Who are they anyway?
Why should universities allow speakers that are going to bring violence on their campuses? Is this what parents who pay tuition want?
There is plenty of free speech on the Internet. Maybe too much.
12
Trump has a dog, its name is Sean Spicer.
I’m a big fan of free speech movements, having spent much of my college career sitting on the floor of the dean’s office, protesting the Catholic administration’s refusal to allow Allen Ginsberg to come to campus and read his poems.
----------------------------
I good editor would have culled this conversation quickly, and focused on a workable nugget: Gail, tell the young readers how you grew up. How you wasted your learning years trying to essentially "change the world" until you wised up and seized the reins of your own life. If the Catholic school, rightly, did not welcome Mr. Ginsberg's beat poems as befitting their traditions, then why not get a job, save your pennies, read where he is next performing, and figure out a way to get yourself there, with your own funds -- not Daddy's -- to buy yourself a ticket... Ditto with the Catholic eduction.
If your father's executive work paid to provide an education, and you wanted more from what was out there, how did you access it? You worked, and went. You chose to be independent, in finding what you needed and meeting your own needs. You "howl"ed Gail, you did.
A good editor would let Gail off this godforsaken "beat" of dating conservative men of all ages for copy and conversation, and ask her to tell the young people now sitting on floors and lying down in the streets what that really got her...
You might never bring Allen Ginsberg to Marquette in Milwaukee to read "Howl", but there are other paths for bright minds.
----------------------------
I good editor would have culled this conversation quickly, and focused on a workable nugget: Gail, tell the young readers how you grew up. How you wasted your learning years trying to essentially "change the world" until you wised up and seized the reins of your own life. If the Catholic school, rightly, did not welcome Mr. Ginsberg's beat poems as befitting their traditions, then why not get a job, save your pennies, read where he is next performing, and figure out a way to get yourself there, with your own funds -- not Daddy's -- to buy yourself a ticket... Ditto with the Catholic eduction.
If your father's executive work paid to provide an education, and you wanted more from what was out there, how did you access it? You worked, and went. You chose to be independent, in finding what you needed and meeting your own needs. You "howl"ed Gail, you did.
A good editor would let Gail off this godforsaken "beat" of dating conservative men of all ages for copy and conversation, and ask her to tell the young people now sitting on floors and lying down in the streets what that really got her...
You might never bring Allen Ginsberg to Marquette in Milwaukee to read "Howl", but there are other paths for bright minds.
2
You won't be bringing Allen Ginsberg anywhere to read anything these days.
1
hi gail: been reading your columns and conversations for years. this conversation (and the first one with mr. labash) leave me feeling insulted. please give mr. labash a pink slip so he can go insult readers with his obviously superior sardonic intellect in some other forum.
I love you gail, but i won't waste any more of my time with mr. labash.
I love you gail, but i won't waste any more of my time with mr. labash.
I'll won't read this column again until Gail gets to parry with someone who doesn't know the intimate details of David Duke's record collection. A painful exchange.
13
Legitimate opinions differ. It's not so much that news is fake but that it is slanted to favor the point of view of the writer or the publication. Even at The Times. We pretty much know where The Times stands but once in a while it will put out a piece with an opposing point of view. I guess they deserve some kudos for that.
Bottom line: take everything you read with a grain of salt regardless of the source.
Bottom line: take everything you read with a grain of salt regardless of the source.
5
Facts are facts. To misquote Lewis Black, "When the school cafeteria sign said bologna sandwiches on Tuesday, you got bologna sandwiches in Tuesday." Water expands when it's warmer, not all GMOs or homework assignments are equal. We have lost nuance.
"The Times stands but once in a while it will put out a piece with an opposing point of view."....You are only correct if you have limited your reading to the opinion section. You may not like the facts, but in the news section of the paper NYT gets the facts right. And no matter what anyone wants to believe, facts are not political.
1
Just "luuuuuv" a "debate" where the participants agree on everything. Now that's fake news.
4
Apparently there is one great job left in America that even the uneducated can get. Unemployed, out of the loop? Become a politician. Great health benefits ,(ever heard of a politico having a claim denied)?. Free access to young girls (pizza, anyone)? Free trips, corporations throwing money at you. Hell, you don't even have to show up for work if you don't want to. Free health club, free medical and dental....for life! You can promise 'em anything and you don't have to do it! It's a great life!
19
Anyone who witnessed the recent Trumpublican effort to pass the DeathFuneralCare®™ tax-cut plan for a handful of rich Americans just had a crash course in Republican inhumanity, torture and unfettered Greed Over People.
Grand Old Psychopathy is a serious national pandemic, fundamentally altering American brain tissue to enable radical illogical beliefs such as the illusion that America's #1 Healthcare Rip-Off In The World that gives Americans half the coverage for twice the price is anything but a viciously cruel and sadistic right-wing practical joke.
Say what you want about Democrats not standing up enough for the average American, there is only one party capable of consistently destroying common sense, the public good and the separation of church and state and greed...and that is the Republican Party Church leading its bamboozled parishioners over the cliffs of white supremacy and free-market 'free-dumb'.
America's White Cliffs of Dumber have never been more stunning to look at than in Trump's Whites R Us Republistan, where the faithful happily leap over the edge and crash onto their fake news, hate radio and alternative fact trampolines, bouncing back up in angry unison as they shout 'Repeal Obamacare' as Pachyderm Spongiform Encephalopathy wastes away their common sense in deference to tribal spite and Christian ill will toward all non-whites.
Republican Healthcare For Dummies will Make America Sick Again.
Thank 'God' for Obamacare in a sea of right-wing nihilism.
Grand Old Psychopathy is a serious national pandemic, fundamentally altering American brain tissue to enable radical illogical beliefs such as the illusion that America's #1 Healthcare Rip-Off In The World that gives Americans half the coverage for twice the price is anything but a viciously cruel and sadistic right-wing practical joke.
Say what you want about Democrats not standing up enough for the average American, there is only one party capable of consistently destroying common sense, the public good and the separation of church and state and greed...and that is the Republican Party Church leading its bamboozled parishioners over the cliffs of white supremacy and free-market 'free-dumb'.
America's White Cliffs of Dumber have never been more stunning to look at than in Trump's Whites R Us Republistan, where the faithful happily leap over the edge and crash onto their fake news, hate radio and alternative fact trampolines, bouncing back up in angry unison as they shout 'Repeal Obamacare' as Pachyderm Spongiform Encephalopathy wastes away their common sense in deference to tribal spite and Christian ill will toward all non-whites.
Republican Healthcare For Dummies will Make America Sick Again.
Thank 'God' for Obamacare in a sea of right-wing nihilism.
145
If you're not a jaded realist by now, you mustn't have read the transcript to the AP interview with President Trump----------where he didn't complete an actual thought, was unintelligible throughout, got his facts wrong, offered zero substance, contradicted himself.....and seemed......utterly clueless.
No historical perspective. Fixated on media coverage of himself, and inexplicably insisting his ratings on TV shows have been better than those that covered the World Trade Attacks on September 11th.
The amount of repetition while losing his train of thought during his remarks is simply disturbing.
Exhibit A:
Complaining about the press in a bizarre, confused manner:
TRUMP: OK. The one thing I've learned to do that I never thought I had the ability to do. I don't watch CNN anymore.
AP: You just said you did.
TRUMP: No. No, I, if I'm passing it, what did I just say (inaudible)?
AP: You just said —
TRUMP: Where? Where?
AP: Two minutes ago.
No historical perspective. Fixated on media coverage of himself, and inexplicably insisting his ratings on TV shows have been better than those that covered the World Trade Attacks on September 11th.
The amount of repetition while losing his train of thought during his remarks is simply disturbing.
Exhibit A:
Complaining about the press in a bizarre, confused manner:
TRUMP: OK. The one thing I've learned to do that I never thought I had the ability to do. I don't watch CNN anymore.
AP: You just said you did.
TRUMP: No. No, I, if I'm passing it, what did I just say (inaudible)?
AP: You just said —
TRUMP: Where? Where?
AP: Two minutes ago.
Gail, I hope you'll invite Mr Labash to kibbitz with you more often. His sense of humour and general distrust of politicians seems to match yours. And he is good for some one/two/three liners. I'll bet he has a dog story to share like your favorite one about the Romney dog on the car roof.
5
I'm a liberal pipefitter and am offended about your remarks concerning pipefitters!
23
i love the what me worry photo w the dog.
4
As the debt explodes and North Korea builds a nuclear bomb each week, we can at least take solace that Trump's presidency really stuck it to those pc types at work, right?
36
While Mr. Labash, given that all politicians are bad, would rather support those who take less in taxes, I would rather support those who don't coddle racists, xenophobes, and anti-semites.
If I can trust that my neighbor won't shoot me because of my race, religion or national origin, I can deal with higher taxes just fine.
If I can trust that my neighbor won't shoot me because of my race, religion or national origin, I can deal with higher taxes just fine.
39
single payer health system is the only way to save money for the people of the USA and the government. The US government pays an outrageous amount per person because of uninsured people. the USA healthcare system is not only not the best in the world, it is expensive and unfair. But alas the oligarchs run the USA so the people are hoodwinked. Fake news!!! they live on it.
34
Mat is genuinely funny....who knew? I say he is a keeper worthy of the wit of Gail.
Yes, Mat is not only witty but also wise. This clear eyed observer of "tons" of Trump supporters, of all classes, understands that the important issue for them is not jobs or healthcare or even having an ignoramus in the white house. No, what offends them is that college students refuse to keep their heads down and their mouths shut.
1
Perhaps Americans need to think of the humanistic content of the Ten Commandments. First: "...thou shalt have no gods but me..." Sound advice, since humans seem to want to create god over and over, and then go to war over their choice. The sage advice in C 1 is get over it once and for all, and get on with life. C 2, as I learned it was "not to take the name of the lord in vain..." Does that mean that the Almighty is a Donald Trump thin-shinned type who hates the f word? Probably not. I think it means, "look kids, I gave you a fertile planet and life; just get on with it and leave me alone. Pass your own exams; win you own ball games. Sheesh!"
Americans twist and turn and use every old trick to avoid reality. Not saying reality is marvelous, but it's what we have.
Americans twist and turn and use every old trick to avoid reality. Not saying reality is marvelous, but it's what we have.
6
Dismember Germany & Italy in the 1930's? The first wave of Fascism?
That.
That.
6
"Are you lying right now?"--"No, and you've got to assume that, if I were, I wouldn't be telling you."
A historical note: This is called "equivocation." Okay, so what does THAT mean? Well, let me tell you.
In the late 1500's, early 1600's many Jesuit priests were making their way (surreptitiously) into England. Their goal: bring the estranged British people back into the fold--back into the Roman Catholic Church. If caught--and they almost always were--they faced prolonged torture followed by an agonizing death. But they came anyway. What courage!
It is difficult to withstand prolonged torture. I have never tried to do it--but trust me. In such cases, the Jesuits were told that "equivocation" would be acceptable. They would not be damning their souls by a mortal sin. How did "equivocation" work?
"Tell us the names of your accomplices--the people who harbored you!"--"I don't know and if I knew, I wouldn't tell you." Their English interrogators soon became aware of this subterfuge but could do nothing about it. Except (I guess) bring more torture to bear. Dreadful!
Read Shakespeare's "Macbeth." The drunken porter (right after King Duncan's murder) opening the castle gate. He has a lot to say about "equivocators." I guess he kept abreast of the times.
As did Governor Edwards. H-m-m-m-m. Interesting guy.
A historical note: This is called "equivocation." Okay, so what does THAT mean? Well, let me tell you.
In the late 1500's, early 1600's many Jesuit priests were making their way (surreptitiously) into England. Their goal: bring the estranged British people back into the fold--back into the Roman Catholic Church. If caught--and they almost always were--they faced prolonged torture followed by an agonizing death. But they came anyway. What courage!
It is difficult to withstand prolonged torture. I have never tried to do it--but trust me. In such cases, the Jesuits were told that "equivocation" would be acceptable. They would not be damning their souls by a mortal sin. How did "equivocation" work?
"Tell us the names of your accomplices--the people who harbored you!"--"I don't know and if I knew, I wouldn't tell you." Their English interrogators soon became aware of this subterfuge but could do nothing about it. Except (I guess) bring more torture to bear. Dreadful!
Read Shakespeare's "Macbeth." The drunken porter (right after King Duncan's murder) opening the castle gate. He has a lot to say about "equivocators." I guess he kept abreast of the times.
As did Governor Edwards. H-m-m-m-m. Interesting guy.
4
The conversation works better when not pettifogging the little details. Congrats on what passes for collegial conversation these days.
"Team Blue has done a lot of squirting down the working class’s leg while telling them that it’s raining"? Really? Thank you, Matt, for bringing your conservative values and good taste into today's discussion.
4
Matt, you "hate politicians." Ah, then, presumably you also hate government? Please move to Somalia, where there is no government. Take all of the "make government so small you could drown it in the bathtub" types with you. You will have a lovely time in government-less Somalia. And meanwhile, the rest of us can get on with civilization--with strong central government, high taxes, subsidized health care and education, and small(er) military. See northern European countries for examples of the health, wealth, and wellness benefits of big government and high taxation--especially of the very rich. And, send us a postcard from Somalia, let us know how you are going on.
42
....and make sure they take all their guns! They're gonna need them!
1
Thinking about the free speech thing at Berkley and other hallowed institutions of higher learning makes me think that it's not about free speech at all. If you know exactly what someone like Ann Coulter is going to say, how is it squashing free speech to protest letting her come and say it? If you know that she's trying to be provocative and inflammatory to sell more books and get more gigs being controversial, why should a university collaborate with her?
Any librarian knows that there's a difference between censorship and choosing the best materials for patrons. The choice is not always easy and self-censorship is something to avoid, but you can't buy everything and there have to be some kind of selection guidelines to help you make the difficult decisions. Maybe universities should think about something similar when they address issues around inviting people to give speeches.
Any librarian knows that there's a difference between censorship and choosing the best materials for patrons. The choice is not always easy and self-censorship is something to avoid, but you can't buy everything and there have to be some kind of selection guidelines to help you make the difficult decisions. Maybe universities should think about something similar when they address issues around inviting people to give speeches.
211
The best think a college can do is to have controversial speakers talk . . . .to an empty hall. That will in short order tall the speaker that their ideas are unappealing. Too bad college students tend to be emotionally volatile -- not unlike some Trump supporters.
3
Exactly!
Or should we also invite Putin, Xi, Kim-jung-Un and the like - to come to Berkeley to educate us about their thinking? I think there is value in learning exactly why they do not agree with us.
Or should we also invite Putin, Xi, Kim-jung-Un and the like - to come to Berkeley to educate us about their thinking? I think there is value in learning exactly why they do not agree with us.
Had the Berkley College Republicans been serious about having a genuine conservative thinker come to speak and to share his/her views, they would not be inviting the likes of Ann Coulter. She's just someone who throws bombs to sell books and speaking gigs. She has nothing to offer intellectually. Inviting her wass certainly their prerogative, but let's not kid ourselves it was intended to be anything other than a bait and a provocation. And, as always, the opposition was stupid enough to bite. Far better to simply ignore the woman. It plays right into their hands.
2
No difference between the parties? How about their respective stances on gun availability and laws (or no laws) regulating deadly weaponry?
15
These dialogues aren't funny anymore. Neither are they insightful.
2
Mr. Labash's comments about politicians of both sides being equally despicable is one of the worst kinds of false equivalence we've been enduring.
Yes, politicians in general are self-serving and easy to corrupt. But it's hard to argue that the Republicans have been far more self-serving and in general easier to corrupt. And they also have the nasty tendency to deny reality to much greater extents than Democrats--i.e., climate change, trickle down economics.
It's a good impulse to not trust politicians in general. But it's a better impulse to try to not let most Republicans within sniffing distance of a legislative or executive chamber.
Yes, politicians in general are self-serving and easy to corrupt. But it's hard to argue that the Republicans have been far more self-serving and in general easier to corrupt. And they also have the nasty tendency to deny reality to much greater extents than Democrats--i.e., climate change, trickle down economics.
It's a good impulse to not trust politicians in general. But it's a better impulse to try to not let most Republicans within sniffing distance of a legislative or executive chamber.
8
Matt Labash says his friend was "forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible. Which is much like having a mandatory car payment for a car that she could never drive." So she'll never use her health care policy? She is certain she will never be hit by a drunk driver? Come on. If there is one thing that is absolutely guaranteed, it's that we will all get sick at some point.
Not to mention that the alternative is something like an $1100 a month policy with a $3000 deductible, which is what we had before we were eligible for Medicare.
I am sick and tired of dishonest portrayals of the ACA.
Not to mention that the alternative is something like an $1100 a month policy with a $3000 deductible, which is what we had before we were eligible for Medicare.
I am sick and tired of dishonest portrayals of the ACA.
53
Matt--$350/month with a $3000 deductible is a great deal! Prior to Obamacare, we paid $525/month with a $10,000 deductible and $20,000 OOP at 80/20 coverage, no dental, no vision, no well-care, no prescription coverage, and a one-year no-coverage moratorium for certain "pre-existing" conditions. This was an individual policy through United Health Care and the best deal out there in 2005. So all you anti-Obamacare rightists, sitting from the perch of your employer-subsidized health insurance, need to go back and review the factual history of the individual health care market before registering your disdain.
68
Not on the defensive. Listen to Democracy Now. Listen to the people on that show. Listen to Amy Goodman's perspective and you'll get an international perspective. Jeremy Scahill. This is not a political problem, this is an environmental problem with political ramifications. This is refugees. This is people without government and without resources attempting to survive, some under military dictatorship, some oppressed by neighboring dictatorships. What is plaguing the United States are years of intervention by secret government and poor intelligence. Or a lack of follow through in diplomatic relations and mistrust due to the pendulum swinging in the direction of politicians who disavow previous relations.
And right now the United States is being engulfed by admirers of Erik Prince or Haliburton's ability to sidestep regulations and policy enabling them to send the taxpayer exorbitant invoices for rampaging the rights of people and their habitats.
There is an onslaught occurring with the present administration against humanity. Defensiveness is for a quorum. People are fighting for their lives here, and their family's lives. The current administration is attempting to stick the American people with an invoice of operations that Citizens United and the Koch brothers are attempting to make us pay for but instead are looking for a tax break that makes them responsible of only 15%. I'm not being defensive, I'm marching.
And right now the United States is being engulfed by admirers of Erik Prince or Haliburton's ability to sidestep regulations and policy enabling them to send the taxpayer exorbitant invoices for rampaging the rights of people and their habitats.
There is an onslaught occurring with the present administration against humanity. Defensiveness is for a quorum. People are fighting for their lives here, and their family's lives. The current administration is attempting to stick the American people with an invoice of operations that Citizens United and the Koch brothers are attempting to make us pay for but instead are looking for a tax break that makes them responsible of only 15%. I'm not being defensive, I'm marching.
6
Gail, let's put aside the light color commentary. By electing Trump, we're at the beginning of a terrible mistake, perhaps a deadly mistake, that America and Americans will have to live with for a long time. Like we saw in Vietnam, we're a great power armed to the teeth wading into a part of the world (the Middle East, North Korea) to which we're tone deaf, led today by someone utterly clueless. Heaven help us.
10
Good entertaining discussion. I sense a better chemistry between the writers.
Matt makes a good point that too much piling on Trump (however deserved) could backfire eventually. Let's also remember that Trump has one weapon that apparently only he can successfully use: he will lie faster than anyone can correct him.
He'll blame everything in creation for his failures, and there will be a core that believes him.
Matt makes a good point that too much piling on Trump (however deserved) could backfire eventually. Let's also remember that Trump has one weapon that apparently only he can successfully use: he will lie faster than anyone can correct him.
He'll blame everything in creation for his failures, and there will be a core that believes him.
3
I'm sorry, I enjoy Gail Collins' writing, perspective and sense of humor quite a bit, but this column makes me cringe. I don't subscribe to the Times so I can read yet another privileged white male conservative whining about political correctness. Yes, resentment and animosity DID motivate a lot of Trump voters. The solution is to change the dialogue and get working and middle class voters to understand where their best economic interests lie, not pander to their basest instincts. Ms. Collins deserves a better collaborator in this "conversation," and so do her readers.
6
These conversations can devolve into something of a contest to see who can come up with the cutest phraseology. This can get tiresome before one reaches the end of the article. I don't know about her guest but Gail has the talent to rise above the cuteness.
1
"And if the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care, you might forgive their reticence."
Not to fear Matt - Obamacare is an example of an unholy alliance of public and private. How the government runs healthcare is better displayed by Medicare where $0.04 of each dollar is dedicated to administrative costs versus the $.38 of each dollar in your cherished private sector.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not advocating for a centralized economy. Capitalism has created more wealth and comfort for more people in the world than any other economic system. Still, this does not mean it is alway the best system for all things. Maybe we apply a simple rule of thumb - faster, better cheaper - let's identify who can, for any service, deliver on at least two out of three and then let them do it. Federal, state local private, I don't care I just want it done right.
Not to fear Matt - Obamacare is an example of an unholy alliance of public and private. How the government runs healthcare is better displayed by Medicare where $0.04 of each dollar is dedicated to administrative costs versus the $.38 of each dollar in your cherished private sector.
Don't misunderstand me; I'm not advocating for a centralized economy. Capitalism has created more wealth and comfort for more people in the world than any other economic system. Still, this does not mean it is alway the best system for all things. Maybe we apply a simple rule of thumb - faster, better cheaper - let's identify who can, for any service, deliver on at least two out of three and then let them do it. Federal, state local private, I don't care I just want it done right.
3
"A plague upon both houses!" Biden said 9 of 15 Senators he asked refused to consider Garland for Supreme Court even though it was wrong--to protect their elected office from a donor supporting another candidate the next time. Conclusion? Congress uses voters and legislates for their donors--especially the GOP. In 2018 auction off seats to the highest bidder--(it's more transparent and probably more productive).
In the name of free market capitalism our country has failing infrastructure, poor but expensive healthcare, a dishonest Pres and his daughter actively profiteering in Office and possibly an agent of Russia, a Congress that now accepts lying under oath. Read Dickens (or just wait a few years)--unbridled capitalism is bloody but where the GOP is leading. (Get those TB wards/sorry--tenements ready.) Or, maybe, just let the world heat up as we hawk more and more faster and faster for the GDP--why go "gentle into that good night" when we can go out in a blaze of trashy glory?
But, hey, the GOP is looking out for us--more smog, the Cahoga catching fire again? Expensive health care excluding essential health and OSHA--gone. (Shades of Dickens again).
The GOP could be heroes--providing us with single payer healthcare as has been proved in every other industrialized country. No way--spite is so much more productive and tax cuts for the wealthy hooray!
A dog for Trump? No--that would truly be a dog's life.
In the name of free market capitalism our country has failing infrastructure, poor but expensive healthcare, a dishonest Pres and his daughter actively profiteering in Office and possibly an agent of Russia, a Congress that now accepts lying under oath. Read Dickens (or just wait a few years)--unbridled capitalism is bloody but where the GOP is leading. (Get those TB wards/sorry--tenements ready.) Or, maybe, just let the world heat up as we hawk more and more faster and faster for the GDP--why go "gentle into that good night" when we can go out in a blaze of trashy glory?
But, hey, the GOP is looking out for us--more smog, the Cahoga catching fire again? Expensive health care excluding essential health and OSHA--gone. (Shades of Dickens again).
The GOP could be heroes--providing us with single payer healthcare as has been proved in every other industrialized country. No way--spite is so much more productive and tax cuts for the wealthy hooray!
A dog for Trump? No--that would truly be a dog's life.
1
First of all, let me thank you for making my waking up in middle of the night, water in water out moment quite enjoyable.
Don't mean to bark at you, but you omitted Nickolas II greatest foretelling of all time from the conversation about predictions. Near Xmas time,1916 he predicted that 1917 would be a better year! And, I don't think he would have considered, that the Bolsheviks wouldn't execute him, and his family until 1918.
Was Nick the the cause of "Bloody Sunday"? Remember, when a bunch of protesters were fired upon by soldiers of the Imperial Guard as they marched towards the Winter Palace. Innovation is not just about job elimination!!! Advancements in Technology allow today's protesters to safely tweet their complaints and insults towards Mar-a-Lago. Remember, we too, have a winter palace and many hungry souls around town.
Does history repeat itself? Hope y'all come back next week.
Don't mean to bark at you, but you omitted Nickolas II greatest foretelling of all time from the conversation about predictions. Near Xmas time,1916 he predicted that 1917 would be a better year! And, I don't think he would have considered, that the Bolsheviks wouldn't execute him, and his family until 1918.
Was Nick the the cause of "Bloody Sunday"? Remember, when a bunch of protesters were fired upon by soldiers of the Imperial Guard as they marched towards the Winter Palace. Innovation is not just about job elimination!!! Advancements in Technology allow today's protesters to safely tweet their complaints and insults towards Mar-a-Lago. Remember, we too, have a winter palace and many hungry souls around town.
Does history repeat itself? Hope y'all come back next week.
5
"Dogs have more soul, are less needy, smell better and tend not to mess where they eat."
Yeah! Couldn't agree more! Where can I find my Thumbs Up emoticon?
Yeah! Couldn't agree more! Where can I find my Thumbs Up emoticon?
2
Meet space would be a better far less offensive formulation than "meat space", Matt. Otherwise, welcome. Readers needed a voice in this column for two that can keep Gail sharp.
Irony seems to be your 'forte', but I doubt that enough people reading it 'get it', especially when you mention your faux knowledge from faux News, as depicted by Fox Noise and Trump's alternative truth (the real fake news). That "we" elected this 'brute', even when we knew his tragic upbringing, closing his mind willfully to the facts, a crook most of his life in enriching himself by turbid real estate dealings; and his extreme ignorance...and competing arrogance leading to his known prejudices (racism, xenophobia, sexual predatory practice), makes one think we are 'nutty' as well (other than our deadly indifference to its consequences). The folks supporting this fraudster, no matter how adverse to their own well-being, tells us how difficult it is to change one's mind already established, however outdated or wrong. Your mention of manufacturing 'angry folks', as a residue of U.S.'s prowess, is a powerful statement, and crying for continued commitment for obstinate division and exclusion, when what is required is a 'coming together' to get things done. Are we in such disarray that we may be comfortable ditching our technology and robotics, so to get jobs back in agriculture and steel 'a la Mao' (his revolution, 1949-76, despicably- imposed suffering of its own people?) Trump's trampling of the environment by promoting a bygone era of coal energy is pure demagoguery. And he knows it; he just can't help his life-long cheating ways, now the liar-in-chief, to our chagrin.
2
The only prediction I’ve made for 2017 is that I will stay out of the predictions business. Since the only prediction that seemed to come true with any regularity in 2016 was that everybody would be wrong about everything
------------------------------------
Nope, not EVERYbody...
But you keep on talking pardner... surely you'll stumble upon a nugget of your own one of these days...
------------------------------------
Nope, not EVERYbody...
But you keep on talking pardner... surely you'll stumble upon a nugget of your own one of these days...
2
As to the dog in trump's arms:
That's one Scotty that wishes he could be beamed to anyplace else in the galaxy.
That's one Scotty that wishes he could be beamed to anyplace else in the galaxy.
8
David Duke and The Sound of Music soundtrack? I guess he didn't realize Oscar Hammerstein's father was jewish?
3
For germaphobes like Trump, it is hard to have a pet. Its really surprising that he even hugs his grandchildren, maybe holds them with his tippy finger nails, and wash his hands after. He is not the kind of grandfather who will wipe his grand children's noses.
5
Trump doesn't need a dog in the White House when he can invite, at will, such luminaries at Ted Nugent, Sarah Palin and Kid Rock for a four hour dinner to discuss foreign affairs.
Was he regaling them with anecdotes about his affairs with foreign women, as when he used to open up to the NY tabloids? Or was it talking about his foreign affair with Vladimir Putin?
For me, the ultimate icon of the Trump presidency was the picture of the snarky three standing in front of the Hillary portrait as First Lady and gloating. Usually, I'm not big on seeing the White House as a symbol of American exceptionalism--when it's so often a launching pad for bullying the world--but in this case, all I could think of was: Donald, this is the People's House, not your man pad. How dare they. How dare you.
The Trump stratagem. Go low, then go lower. America, this is not us.
Was he regaling them with anecdotes about his affairs with foreign women, as when he used to open up to the NY tabloids? Or was it talking about his foreign affair with Vladimir Putin?
For me, the ultimate icon of the Trump presidency was the picture of the snarky three standing in front of the Hillary portrait as First Lady and gloating. Usually, I'm not big on seeing the White House as a symbol of American exceptionalism--when it's so often a launching pad for bullying the world--but in this case, all I could think of was: Donald, this is the People's House, not your man pad. How dare they. How dare you.
The Trump stratagem. Go low, then go lower. America, this is not us.
621
Remember the limbo? We're living it.
1
Seriously, between those three Stooges and Trump there was about half a nitwit to plan our country's course for the next 4 years.
Trump's secret White House guest list has me wondering if David Duke has walked through the White House or worse, slept in the Lincoln Bedroom. I am outraged that we are being held hostage by a deranged criminal because our Republican Congress is to compromised to respond appropriately.
2
Thank you, both authors, for this funny talking round. I always admire the humorous American approach to politics concerning strange personalities and in rather "steamed"-up times.
That Trump doesn't like pets is pretty clear to me: they don't "make" money. Only he makes money and money is the most important thing on the world.
Keep up the flag.
That Trump doesn't like pets is pretty clear to me: they don't "make" money. Only he makes money and money is the most important thing on the world.
Keep up the flag.
27
"Since the only prediction that seemed to come true with any regularity in 2016 was that everybody would be wrong about everything."
Well, good luck getting through life with that philosophy. Some people were right about a lot. But if it makes the people who were wrong feel better to think that everyone was like them, I'm not sure it's worth the time to argue with them.
Well, good luck getting through life with that philosophy. Some people were right about a lot. But if it makes the people who were wrong feel better to think that everyone was like them, I'm not sure it's worth the time to argue with them.
18
So Matt Labash the fly fisherman throws in a half sentence of semi-ironic criticism over Trump allowing the coal industry to dump mining waste in streams, and then goes on to complain for nine hours about the mostly imagined crimes of liberal PC, which you can tell really outrages him far more than the fate of American democracy let alone the survival of civilization bothers him. That in a nutshell is the right-wing opposition to Trump: hating liberals is so deep in their core they just don't know what else to do.
Matt, Medicare is "a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care", as is the various single-payer systems worldwide. Obamacare, while much better than what it replaced, is a mess that was designed to appeal to insurance companies and Republicans. This is a pretty basic fact and your swipe at government shows how clearly you think on the subject.
The reason that government run healthcare does poorly in America is sabotage by politicians. Other governments manage well enough so our government must be either corrupt or stupid. Either way, next time you hear a politician tell you that the government can't run healthcare, vote for someone else.
659
Our government is both corrupt and stupid. That is what is so frightening.
186
Medicare is well run.
10
The government seems to do pretty well running Medicare. Let's put everyone on Medicare including Congress.
What right wing crank is speaking on which campus really doesn't interest me. What concerns me is Trump's dismantling of government agencies like the State department as well as Trump's shady links to Moscow. I do expect to see a congressional hearing into the Russian meddling in our election. We are coming up on 100 days without a hearing.
For the record, what fuels my rage is the theft of the Supreme Court seat.
For the record, what fuels my rage is the theft of the Supreme Court seat.
277
Sometimes the sarcasm of "The Conversation" is amusing, sometimes it's annoying. Sometimes it is revealing, which I suppose Ms. Collins and Mr. Labash are really trying for. At least, I hope so.
And, yes, Mr. Labash, I do forlornly hope for many things.
But the truest statement for me in this article, was this:
"I distrust “my side” nearly as much as I distrust yours. Mine just taxes me less. But both tend to be morally rudderless, interested solely in sustaining themselves and for sale to the highest bidder. Show me a person who trusts politicians, and I’ll show you someone who isn’t paying close enough attention."
This statement encapsulates our national problem as well as anything. But limiting it to the political class does not go far enough. Rank and file laborers do not trust their union leaders. Workers do not trust managers. Managers do not trust executives. Students do not trust teachers; parents do not trust school administrators. Parishioners do not trust priests and pastors. And the list goes on.
While Mr. Labash's comment about the draw of people to Mr. Trump's political incorrectness is true, it is severely limited as an explanation of how millions of desperate people were convinced that "he and he alone" could save America. There is a lot more to it than most NYT writers or commenters have seen yet. And they won't see it until they stop insulting Trump voters and start listening to them without interrupting.
And, yes, Mr. Labash, I do forlornly hope for many things.
But the truest statement for me in this article, was this:
"I distrust “my side” nearly as much as I distrust yours. Mine just taxes me less. But both tend to be morally rudderless, interested solely in sustaining themselves and for sale to the highest bidder. Show me a person who trusts politicians, and I’ll show you someone who isn’t paying close enough attention."
This statement encapsulates our national problem as well as anything. But limiting it to the political class does not go far enough. Rank and file laborers do not trust their union leaders. Workers do not trust managers. Managers do not trust executives. Students do not trust teachers; parents do not trust school administrators. Parishioners do not trust priests and pastors. And the list goes on.
While Mr. Labash's comment about the draw of people to Mr. Trump's political incorrectness is true, it is severely limited as an explanation of how millions of desperate people were convinced that "he and he alone" could save America. There is a lot more to it than most NYT writers or commenters have seen yet. And they won't see it until they stop insulting Trump voters and start listening to them without interrupting.
9
It strikes me, when I read your comment about everybody distrusting everybody - yes, as a college professor I distrust my dean, president and most of all chancellor. I distrust most of my colleagues. But I actually trust and like my students - they give me hope for the future.
What a glorious start to my Tuesday morning. I'm certainly not going to get my hackles up over the "non-seriousness" of the conversation. We all need to take ourselves less seriously. Thank you, Gail and Matt.
8
Whew! Fast and Furious.
Too much there to "unpack" as is the current terminology.
But what I did come away with was a sense of the right wing anger - Gail mentioned it - and wondered why - when they have all the power now.
Shouldn't they be calm and peaceful, sitting back, saying all will be well, we have the helm now, just wait and see the country and the world become better places as our philosophy has a full opportunity to blossom?
Of course we all know the debacle of "trickle down", those of us down here know what comes down the pike and it ain't money, and I'm not sure what "philosophy" they're talking about - Ryan's or Bannon's or Kushner's or Trumps idea of the day.
And, as an animal lover who has shared her long life with many dogs, please do not wish Trump on an unsuspecting dog as a publicity stunt.
Too much there to "unpack" as is the current terminology.
But what I did come away with was a sense of the right wing anger - Gail mentioned it - and wondered why - when they have all the power now.
Shouldn't they be calm and peaceful, sitting back, saying all will be well, we have the helm now, just wait and see the country and the world become better places as our philosophy has a full opportunity to blossom?
Of course we all know the debacle of "trickle down", those of us down here know what comes down the pike and it ain't money, and I'm not sure what "philosophy" they're talking about - Ryan's or Bannon's or Kushner's or Trumps idea of the day.
And, as an animal lover who has shared her long life with many dogs, please do not wish Trump on an unsuspecting dog as a publicity stunt.
Romney may have put his dog on the top of his car for a long road trip, but at least he had one. And yet so much negative press ink spilled on poor Mitt. It's interesting to, because if you've been looking for loyalty and love which Trump seems to have craved his entire life, a dog is the cheapest investment you could make. Show a dog a little kindness and your rewards will be great. They are uncomplicated creatures. But that is perhaps a clue to the question of why Trump doesn't have a dog. I am always amazed at my dogs ability to just know who the kind and good people are. And so there we may have our answer. Unlike so many people who are fooled by Trump, a dog could see right through him. So now we have an answer. It is not that Trump does not like dogs, it is that dogs don't like him.
90
Interesting discussion. I almost understand the other side's outrage-but the rage is misplaced. The HR department is not responsible for offshoring of jobs. Politically correct speech is not causally related to globalization, which is supported even more strongly by most Republicans. Republican plans including the laughable Trump/Ryan health care plan would have made all the problems associated with the ACA worse, not better, even for those who were actually covered. The Republicans talk: all outrage, no solutions.
35
" the wall-to-wall 24-7 outrage industrial complex — the Rachel Maddowization of America ". Yeah, right. Rachel Maddow has a lot to answer for. Ask anyone over at Fox News. They will supply a "fair and balanced" account and won't let political correctness interfere with their evaluation of a troublesome woman who started outrage journalism. If O'Reilly doesn't answer the phone, forward the call to Limbaugh. He'd know.
94
If only more conservatives could be as rational and good natured as Matt.
Speaking of Presidential dogs, remember Truman's advice: "If you want a friend in this town, get a dog."
3
Gail, this column seems like written prose, rather than spontaneous conversation. Did "Matt" have the chance to refine and extend his part of the conversation? Sometimes his remarks seem to go way beyond your comments. It's as if you sprinkled those comments into a longer piece written mostly by him. I'll give you this. His style is not yours.
And I mean no criticism of him when I say my personal preference in Collins columns is for you to be out there all alone, without the sensibility of right-wing males to play off of, and having to construct your own continuity. Well...someone has to! (Or not...)
And I mean no criticism of him when I say my personal preference in Collins columns is for you to be out there all alone, without the sensibility of right-wing males to play off of, and having to construct your own continuity. Well...someone has to! (Or not...)
I'm sick and tired or people complaining about Politicians. Not ALL politicians are bad. It takes an amazing amount of skill to sail through today's political waters and land even an incremental accomplishment. Here's a shout-out for the people brave enough to do this job!
Wish I could joke about it like you two. I can’t. I’m terribly worried.
We can observe human history as a battle of good struggling to overcome evil. Too often; evil has come out the winner. Human suffering has then been the result, often of immense proportion.
We are in a critical evolutionary period. Hundreds of millions and even billions of lives hang in the balance.
The battle against Donald Trump is a battle against evil. It is a battle for humanity. It must now begin with all intensity.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
We can observe human history as a battle of good struggling to overcome evil. Too often; evil has come out the winner. Human suffering has then been the result, often of immense proportion.
We are in a critical evolutionary period. Hundreds of millions and even billions of lives hang in the balance.
The battle against Donald Trump is a battle against evil. It is a battle for humanity. It must now begin with all intensity.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
19
I have to disagree with this assertion by Gail: "I believe we have moved past Kellyanne Conway paranoia. Any more complaints about liberal complainers?"
The entire cornerstone of Trump's spell over his supporters is based on the notion that reality doesn't exist, only opinions, and that the news about Trump is "fake" because it's written by liberals. The Russian links, the endless policies that support the very rich at the expense of everyone else, the unqualified cabinet members who don't know what they're doing, the unfilled posts where no one is doing anything, our growing disgrace on the world stage are only perceptions of the "liberal complainers". Trump is doing a wonderful job rather than a terrible job because that's the way I want to see it.
Trump's dismal failure at getting anything accomplished besides bombing and threating, despite having a Republican majority is no evidence of his poor performance. Everything is going well because he tweeted that it is so. Only a "liberal complainer" would disagree.
The entire cornerstone of Trump's spell over his supporters is based on the notion that reality doesn't exist, only opinions, and that the news about Trump is "fake" because it's written by liberals. The Russian links, the endless policies that support the very rich at the expense of everyone else, the unqualified cabinet members who don't know what they're doing, the unfilled posts where no one is doing anything, our growing disgrace on the world stage are only perceptions of the "liberal complainers". Trump is doing a wonderful job rather than a terrible job because that's the way I want to see it.
Trump's dismal failure at getting anything accomplished besides bombing and threating, despite having a Republican majority is no evidence of his poor performance. Everything is going well because he tweeted that it is so. Only a "liberal complainer" would disagree.
13
"She was forced to buy a $350-a-month health insurance policy with a $3,000 deductible."
How much does she make, Matt? Cause if she is paying $350, then she is a single person making at least $52k per year. If she was making, say $20k, then that "$350-a-month" policy actually cost her like $130 with the subsidies.
But, if she wants Trump to collapse the individual market, then I guess feel free to encourage her. She can pay that $130 a month for a policy with a $20k deductible.
How much does she make, Matt? Cause if she is paying $350, then she is a single person making at least $52k per year. If she was making, say $20k, then that "$350-a-month" policy actually cost her like $130 with the subsidies.
But, if she wants Trump to collapse the individual market, then I guess feel free to encourage her. She can pay that $130 a month for a policy with a $20k deductible.
156
Half of America finds that math too complicated.
6
I'm a federal employee whose health insurance is subsidized...I pay about 30% of my BCBS premium, currently $1,131 a month for a self + one plan with a $700 deductible. What's her beef? Does she want single payer? Does she want the freedom to simply not purchase a policy, not spend a nickel on health care and have me and the rest of the taxpayers bail her out if she gets sick?
17
Take a look at employer provided health insurance these days. That ACA policiy is not that different from what employees are getting.
1
And here we have a dialog between persons with different points of view, but who agree on what needs to be discussed and who seem to find common ground. But they reflect both sides of the center. Not the far right who do not seem to recognize that they do not represent most of America.
4
From a physics perspective, I'd characterize 45's relation to the truth as nearly entirely inelastic at best, and probably more like matter/anti-matter.
1. Matt says the government spends money it doesn't have. He doesn't seem to know the government, thru the FED, can create as much money as it needs.
2. Both Matt & Gail says both parties sold the selves to the highest bidder. They clearly never listened to Hillary or read her platform, where she proposes strict limits on political contributions and many programs to help those in need.
3. Matt flogs the popular myth that NAFTA was bad for the country. The best study of its effects at https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf says:
"In reality, NAFTA did not cause the huge job losses feared by the critics or
the large economic gains predicted by supporters. The net overall effect of NAFTA on the U.S. economy appears to have been relatively modest, primarily because trade with Canada and Mexico accounts for a small percentage of U.S. GDP."
4. I have a Tibetan Terrier named Rinchen. The name means "holder of the intellect." So There.
2. Both Matt & Gail says both parties sold the selves to the highest bidder. They clearly never listened to Hillary or read her platform, where she proposes strict limits on political contributions and many programs to help those in need.
3. Matt flogs the popular myth that NAFTA was bad for the country. The best study of its effects at https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf says:
"In reality, NAFTA did not cause the huge job losses feared by the critics or
the large economic gains predicted by supporters. The net overall effect of NAFTA on the U.S. economy appears to have been relatively modest, primarily because trade with Canada and Mexico accounts for a small percentage of U.S. GDP."
4. I have a Tibetan Terrier named Rinchen. The name means "holder of the intellect." So There.
20
I don't have much patience for Matt Labash's dismissal of government; it's the usual libertarian pipe dream. If he thinks government is inherently bad, wait until he tries anarchy. But at least he's funny. One thing progressives have had a lock on for years now is humor. If conservatives would stop being so angry and start being funny then maybe there is a future of bipartisanship after all.
19
Matt- what would your family member have paid if not the 350 a month for Obamacare? What would have cost? Would she have gone without healthcare? People who are working still pay premiums. Comments thrown out like the one you made about your relative do not paint the whole picture. But for Obamacare, what would a person have paid for insurance - or would that person just go without and spin the wheel? How much would she have paid if she had no insurance and had to go to the hospital for just ONE night?
63
I deeply distrust the Democratic political leadership, and I trust the Republican political leadership 100%....but don't take that as meaning I'm Republican!
The Democrats in leadership flip-flop and waiver and try to help the working class, but then cut horrible deals with Republicans. They consistently show inconsistency and have spines made of jello.
OTOH, I always know EXACTLY what the Republicans will do: Seek more power by any means necessary, fair and foul. Do whatever they can to free up corporations to pollute, cheat on their taxes, exploit their workers, and sink the economy, as long as they contribute to the RNC, and keep lobbying and board of director jobs open for Republicans when they leave office. And they will lie to ordinary people that they are helping them while they are robbing them. Again, any means, fair or foul, to power and control.
I'm almost never surprised. And even when a Republican bucks the leadership or the President (the orange cheato), it means either of two things: 1) He/she is smelling up-close & personal defeat in the next election (Like Rodney Frelinghuysen) or
2) He/she will talk tough and then cave, like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, et al.
Oh. And I forgot the DINOs like Joe Manchin whose ONLY value as a Democrat is his occasional vote in support of party unity.
In conclusion, the Democratic Party leadership is horrible and dreadful and would be the worst thing possible if it weren't for the Republican Party's!
The Democrats in leadership flip-flop and waiver and try to help the working class, but then cut horrible deals with Republicans. They consistently show inconsistency and have spines made of jello.
OTOH, I always know EXACTLY what the Republicans will do: Seek more power by any means necessary, fair and foul. Do whatever they can to free up corporations to pollute, cheat on their taxes, exploit their workers, and sink the economy, as long as they contribute to the RNC, and keep lobbying and board of director jobs open for Republicans when they leave office. And they will lie to ordinary people that they are helping them while they are robbing them. Again, any means, fair or foul, to power and control.
I'm almost never surprised. And even when a Republican bucks the leadership or the President (the orange cheato), it means either of two things: 1) He/she is smelling up-close & personal defeat in the next election (Like Rodney Frelinghuysen) or
2) He/she will talk tough and then cave, like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, et al.
Oh. And I forgot the DINOs like Joe Manchin whose ONLY value as a Democrat is his occasional vote in support of party unity.
In conclusion, the Democratic Party leadership is horrible and dreadful and would be the worst thing possible if it weren't for the Republican Party's!
25
So why don't you tell us what "horrible deals" the Democrats have cut and what you would have had them do?
5
Great to start the day off depressed. Can't we insert some hope somewhere, even if its false?
I think I'll go hug my cats.
I think I'll go hug my cats.
3
Read the WaPo piece on Trump's interview with Julie Pace.
It. Is. Appalling.
We have a President incapable of putting a sentence together.
Bragging. Lying. Just plain making things up.
Did you know for example that Democrats have a huge edge in the Electoral College? That people are saying his speech to Congress was probably the best ever by any president? That a Democrat in Congress told him that he would likely be regarded as the best president in US history? That he gets on famously with world leaders and they all love him? That he and Chancellor Merkel have great chemistry?
We. Are. DOOMED!
It. Is. Appalling.
We have a President incapable of putting a sentence together.
Bragging. Lying. Just plain making things up.
Did you know for example that Democrats have a huge edge in the Electoral College? That people are saying his speech to Congress was probably the best ever by any president? That a Democrat in Congress told him that he would likely be regarded as the best president in US history? That he gets on famously with world leaders and they all love him? That he and Chancellor Merkel have great chemistry?
We. Are. DOOMED!
22
Matt Labash is a lot more interesting than Arthur Brooks, although that was a low threshold to cross. As seems to be the case with many things including the POTUS these days. He does have a better sense of humor than his immediate predecessor although Gail Collins wins the gold!
Nonetheless I have a few points of disagreement with him. He accuses Team Blue (a nice term, thank you for introducing it to me) "of squirting down the working class’s leg while telling them that it’s raining" while conveniently forgetting it is technology that is killing more jobs than immigrants, legal or illegal.
He notes that he "distrust “my side” nearly as much as I distrust yours" meaning that he has no faith in Team Blue or Team Red. That is no argument because we need some form of governance structure. I suppose we could have more political parties with more color codes, but merely noting that neither side is "trustworthy" makes no sense. Part of the reason is the entrenched Congressmen/women who through legislative processes carve out districts that help them get reelected. Is Matt ready to call for an amendment that shifts redistricting to nonpartisan panels?
Nonetheless I have a few points of disagreement with him. He accuses Team Blue (a nice term, thank you for introducing it to me) "of squirting down the working class’s leg while telling them that it’s raining" while conveniently forgetting it is technology that is killing more jobs than immigrants, legal or illegal.
He notes that he "distrust “my side” nearly as much as I distrust yours" meaning that he has no faith in Team Blue or Team Red. That is no argument because we need some form of governance structure. I suppose we could have more political parties with more color codes, but merely noting that neither side is "trustworthy" makes no sense. Part of the reason is the entrenched Congressmen/women who through legislative processes carve out districts that help them get reelected. Is Matt ready to call for an amendment that shifts redistricting to nonpartisan panels?
3
Thanks, Gail and Matt. This was savored for what it is, and forwarded to people who believe our parties indulge in equal-opportunity lunacy. I guess I'm tired of being furious all the time, which doesn't mean I think Donald is any less of a menace.
6
The left-wing looniness cited by conservative writers is nearly always from an individual, but the right-wing confections emanate from multiple sources such as Fox and Friends.
Also, Gail, shall your colleague go unchallenged as he disses government health care when he has access to fifty years of Medicare data? Does he wonder why some would rather not sully their campuses with alt-truth?
I have been reading Pankaj Mishra's "The Age of Anger: A History of the Present," which traces the ressentiment that is cresting now to Peter the Great, Voltaire v. Rousseau, and, later, the rush to do for post-colonial societies what Peter did for (to?) Russia, i.e., raze indigenous cultures to build social structures to ape the West.
Quick and massive disruption of local hierarchies and customs, replacing them with Reason and Progress, is hard for those who cling to tradition. When Progress (for the worker who now sees her/his economic position ebbing) stalls, all that's left is the antithesis of how so many people were raised (locally, religiously). The resulting vacuum of power can provoke a level of anguish that demands a level of security that no one can provide.
However, politicians who baldly promise to provide such security (a wall in south Texas will stop the bogeymen!) can be elected. Voters are so livid that they are easy marks for anyone who tells them that their pet bigoted solutions are not only justified but also will be tomorrow's mode du jour.
C'est vrai, Martine?
Also, Gail, shall your colleague go unchallenged as he disses government health care when he has access to fifty years of Medicare data? Does he wonder why some would rather not sully their campuses with alt-truth?
I have been reading Pankaj Mishra's "The Age of Anger: A History of the Present," which traces the ressentiment that is cresting now to Peter the Great, Voltaire v. Rousseau, and, later, the rush to do for post-colonial societies what Peter did for (to?) Russia, i.e., raze indigenous cultures to build social structures to ape the West.
Quick and massive disruption of local hierarchies and customs, replacing them with Reason and Progress, is hard for those who cling to tradition. When Progress (for the worker who now sees her/his economic position ebbing) stalls, all that's left is the antithesis of how so many people were raised (locally, religiously). The resulting vacuum of power can provoke a level of anguish that demands a level of security that no one can provide.
However, politicians who baldly promise to provide such security (a wall in south Texas will stop the bogeymen!) can be elected. Voters are so livid that they are easy marks for anyone who tells them that their pet bigoted solutions are not only justified but also will be tomorrow's mode du jour.
C'est vrai, Martine?
6
If you haven't noticed, politicians have a long history of being narcissistic, egocentric, creeps. That's sort of in their job description. TRUMP couldn't be a better example. But our government is of, by, and for the People. It's not of, by, and for the politicians. We the People are a check and balance against the natural tendency of politicians. We failed in our task this time around. The DNC sneakily did an end run around democracy and thrust HRC upon us. A candidate fundamentally incapable of defending herself against a rapacious game-show host. And the GOP just self-immolated, leaving TRUMP standing because he was audacious enough to distance himself from them from the get-go. Hopefully we will learn from our mistakes, so long as we get another opportunity.
Issue #2: Matt Lablanc wrote, "And if the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care, you might forgive their reticence."
So why is it that so many other countries do it so much better than we do? People in other industrialized countries do not go bankrupt from health care issues. It is unheard of. No doubt the ACA has serious problems, but they were baked in because of GOP demands in the first place. It appears that we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future. So let's fix it. Let's do better.
And let's kick all those bums out of office at the next opportunity!
Tax 'em like Ike.
Issue #2: Matt Lablanc wrote, "And if the train wreck that is Obamacare was a sneak peek as to how effectively the government runs health care, you might forgive their reticence."
So why is it that so many other countries do it so much better than we do? People in other industrialized countries do not go bankrupt from health care issues. It is unheard of. No doubt the ACA has serious problems, but they were baked in because of GOP demands in the first place. It appears that we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future. So let's fix it. Let's do better.
And let's kick all those bums out of office at the next opportunity!
Tax 'em like Ike.
15
Mr. Labash,
For a sneak peek at how effectively the government runs a health care system that has managed to escape (more or less) GOP interference, look no further than Medicare.
I double dog dare you to find a senior who hates, positively hates their Medicare plan, and is begging their Congressional representative to repeal it.
Which leads logically to the solution of our health care dilemma; Medicare for all. The only ones who wouldn't want it work for insurance companies.
For a sneak peek at how effectively the government runs a health care system that has managed to escape (more or less) GOP interference, look no further than Medicare.
I double dog dare you to find a senior who hates, positively hates their Medicare plan, and is begging their Congressional representative to repeal it.
Which leads logically to the solution of our health care dilemma; Medicare for all. The only ones who wouldn't want it work for insurance companies.
225
"Not so sure why the red side is seeing red. They want to be in control-more?"
Love this banter, oh, and love dogs too. Matt, the issues you raise or rather say are being raised by the blue side, are just the silly ones. Anne Coulter is irrelevant and struggling to support her rather pronounced Adam's apple. Kelly Anne is in some basement closet pretending to be Sean Spicer, who should be in some basement closet.
What people are really concerned about is how the so called president is slashing NOAA, NIH and NSF,
EPA, and every other program that either keeps us safe or increases our knowledge about the world around us all the while putting Jared Kushner in charge of, well, everything. That should scare every red or blue person to their core. On the upside, people are paying attention more than ever and seeing the hypocrisy more clearly than ever. Good may come of that yet, and this nightmare may be over sooner rather than later.
Love this banter, oh, and love dogs too. Matt, the issues you raise or rather say are being raised by the blue side, are just the silly ones. Anne Coulter is irrelevant and struggling to support her rather pronounced Adam's apple. Kelly Anne is in some basement closet pretending to be Sean Spicer, who should be in some basement closet.
What people are really concerned about is how the so called president is slashing NOAA, NIH and NSF,
EPA, and every other program that either keeps us safe or increases our knowledge about the world around us all the while putting Jared Kushner in charge of, well, everything. That should scare every red or blue person to their core. On the upside, people are paying attention more than ever and seeing the hypocrisy more clearly than ever. Good may come of that yet, and this nightmare may be over sooner rather than later.
16
The angry white Trump voters got what they wanted when Jeff Sessions became Attorney General: someone who aggressively deports "those people" and someone who will keep "those people" from voting. As long as Trump works to make America white, I mean "great" again, Trump voters will believe him to be the greatest thing since sliced (white) bread. When they lose their jobs and their health insurance, it will be the fault of Democrats and those people.
These people are incapable of change, and I fail to understand why we are wasting energy trying to please them. If we want to turn this around, Democrats need to get out the vote and moderate Republicans need to cross party lines. Good luck with that.
These people are incapable of change, and I fail to understand why we are wasting energy trying to please them. If we want to turn this around, Democrats need to get out the vote and moderate Republicans need to cross party lines. Good luck with that.
8
Matt, Matt, you're a smart and funny guy. Of course you can make predictions. What is the stupidest, most destructive, least coherent set of actions that will simultaneously hurt the most people and cater to a tiny base? That is what they will do.
As a conservative, you don't like government solutions. Got it. Same old song, no change in the lyrics.
But not liking government solutions is no excuse to simply ignore the sixth of the country that was left without access to affordable care, and under every GOP plan will continue to be left without access, because allowing them to suffer makes it cheaper for everyone else. It is a Soylent Green solution.
Same with jobs, education, retirement - all of our policies are leading people into choosing sub=par jobs, like retail, which are being engineered into extinction, or spending their future on education. Then we blame joblessness on people who don't have the skills to survive the economy.
We have big problems, and no solutions from either party. Let'em eat cake is not a solution,
As a conservative, you don't like government solutions. Got it. Same old song, no change in the lyrics.
But not liking government solutions is no excuse to simply ignore the sixth of the country that was left without access to affordable care, and under every GOP plan will continue to be left without access, because allowing them to suffer makes it cheaper for everyone else. It is a Soylent Green solution.
Same with jobs, education, retirement - all of our policies are leading people into choosing sub=par jobs, like retail, which are being engineered into extinction, or spending their future on education. Then we blame joblessness on people who don't have the skills to survive the economy.
We have big problems, and no solutions from either party. Let'em eat cake is not a solution,
5
Amused as I was by invention of the term "the Rachel Maddowization of America," I have to admit to disappointment, nay even disbelief, that throughout a whole conversation framed by presidential dogs, Gail missed the opportunity to mention a certain dog strapped to a certain roof.
2
Mr. Matt has gone for the implied "false equivalence" gambit here; a step up, I guess, from the direct false equivalence.
Still, 'meatspace' was priceless.
Still, 'meatspace' was priceless.
9
I'd see a full spectrum instead of being a blue seeing red since Gore vs. Bush & Citizens' United, if I felt we'd had a fair break in being represented instead of being stuck with the residua of gerrymandered blocs & blind GOP's eyes being turned to DJT's malfeasances with regard to Russia, emoluments, etc.
5
This was a tad on the weak side as far as educating the electorate goes. Tell us something of importance that we don't already have to live with. Besides, playing paddy cake with the news is our job. Cutting to the chase is yours. Now, fess up: what story was cut at the last minute leaving a hole not even Donald-bashing could fill?
5
Matt is so all fire concerned about Congre$$ $pending "money we don't have," then maybe they should consider enacting a rationally progressive tax system? Oh yeah, the party he belongs to considers "tax" a four letter word. And the politicians quaver in fear of the Ayatollah Grover Norquist.
Oliver Wendell Holmes: "I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization." One can only conclude that civilization is overrated in the Republican worldview.
Oliver Wendell Holmes: "I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization." One can only conclude that civilization is overrated in the Republican worldview.
29
"...after the sequestered jury was caught stealing towels from the hotel, Edwards said he had been judged 'by a jury of my peers.'" Bravo! Keep mining more knee-slapping nuggets like this one and your column will be well worth reading.
2
Just once. Just once. Just one time.
Would it be possible? For the NY Times to publish a column that pokes fun and makes ironic comments about the leaders of the Democratic Party?
What is it with the willful blindness to the media's own prejudice, which is projects every single day.
The theory is beginning to take hold that the media is not the political arm of the Democratic Party, but the opposite may be true: Instead, it's the media that uses the Democratic Party as its outlet. And, if this is so, the media are hardly going to criticize the party it controls.
While it may seem far-fetched, there is daily evidence to support this thesis.
Would it be possible? For the NY Times to publish a column that pokes fun and makes ironic comments about the leaders of the Democratic Party?
What is it with the willful blindness to the media's own prejudice, which is projects every single day.
The theory is beginning to take hold that the media is not the political arm of the Democratic Party, but the opposite may be true: Instead, it's the media that uses the Democratic Party as its outlet. And, if this is so, the media are hardly going to criticize the party it controls.
While it may seem far-fetched, there is daily evidence to support this thesis.
1
"Would it be possible? For the NY Times to publish a column that pokes fun and makes ironic comments about the leaders of the Democratic Party?"
Every branch of the federal government and most of the states are currently controlled by Republicans. You don't have the Democrats to kick around anymore; you own it all.
Every branch of the federal government and most of the states are currently controlled by Republicans. You don't have the Democrats to kick around anymore; you own it all.
3
I am so tired of the conservative "truism" that government (proven, they say, by Obamacare) is ineffective in providing healthcare. Obamacare was sabotaged by the Republicans from the start. Why Gail, and other liberal writers don't always and immediately respond with how well GOVERNMENT Medicare is working is beyond me. But what do I know, I don't have a column in The Times.
37
Now there is something Trump supporters can focus on -- a President without a dog! Hardly seems natural and next the fake news is going to be telling us is that the President doesn't own a pick-up. Sort like we have a President who is some New York billionaire.
3
look at this poor animal's face. It speaks a thousand words.....
"This feels way too creepy. Get me out of this guys arms or any minute now I will sink my teeth into him".
I understand Scottie for I share the same intuitive feeling. I say bite him!
"This feels way too creepy. Get me out of this guys arms or any minute now I will sink my teeth into him".
I understand Scottie for I share the same intuitive feeling. I say bite him!
6
There's a lot to comment on here, but I'll focus on just one item.
Matt said, "...I personally know tons of Trump supports — upper-middle and upper class among them — for whom the anti-PC pushback made them reach for their MAGA hats."
Consider that statement carefully. Matt says he knows "tons" of upper-middle and upper class persons who turned to Trump because they were upset over political correctness. Really? So they didn't care that Trump is a disgrace to the human race, they just wanted to flip the bird to society pushing PC?
If Matt is right, these anti-PC geniuses are DEPLORABLE! They chose to put our country in the hands of a mentally ill, self-promoting braggart, as a protest to PC. That being an example of their judgement, they are no better than the Trump supporters who believe Hillary Clinton ran a child sex service out of a pizza parlor.
Matt said, "...I personally know tons of Trump supports — upper-middle and upper class among them — for whom the anti-PC pushback made them reach for their MAGA hats."
Consider that statement carefully. Matt says he knows "tons" of upper-middle and upper class persons who turned to Trump because they were upset over political correctness. Really? So they didn't care that Trump is a disgrace to the human race, they just wanted to flip the bird to society pushing PC?
If Matt is right, these anti-PC geniuses are DEPLORABLE! They chose to put our country in the hands of a mentally ill, self-promoting braggart, as a protest to PC. That being an example of their judgement, they are no better than the Trump supporters who believe Hillary Clinton ran a child sex service out of a pizza parlor.
59
"thanks for inviting me back to your safe space"
... and, I'm out. Thanks for playing, goodbye!
... and, I'm out. Thanks for playing, goodbye!
5
It's interesting to hear Trump speak of "Fake News". In fact, it's laughable. When one hears Trump speak, one would need a supercomputer to count the lies that profusely issue forth from that toxic brain that sits like a tiny acorn in that vast cavern of empty space between those two ears of his.
Most of America has now come to the conclusion that Donald Trump should be required to wear a lie detector that emits a unique sound every time a lie is spoken...But, then again, the EPA would be called in to mitigate the noise pollution that would result..Then again, perhaps a quick and painful jolt of electricity might, over time, serve to limit the volume of lies that flow like a raging river after a record-breaking torrential downpour from a summer thunderstorm.
Fake news?...No, a "Fake President" is more to the point!...And, instead of a wall along the Mexican border, how about an impenetrable wall around the White House to protect us from the red-haired demon who lurks inside?
Most of America has now come to the conclusion that Donald Trump should be required to wear a lie detector that emits a unique sound every time a lie is spoken...But, then again, the EPA would be called in to mitigate the noise pollution that would result..Then again, perhaps a quick and painful jolt of electricity might, over time, serve to limit the volume of lies that flow like a raging river after a record-breaking torrential downpour from a summer thunderstorm.
Fake news?...No, a "Fake President" is more to the point!...And, instead of a wall along the Mexican border, how about an impenetrable wall around the White House to protect us from the red-haired demon who lurks inside?
16
I wouldn't want to wish ANY living thing to be in the care of Donald Trump.
8
Honestly that picture of Trump holding the dog looks more like his life size cut out with a dog photo shopped into it than him really there holding a germ filled Scotty. I bet he just threw that suit and tie in the garbage rather than risk contamination again.
7
Woof!
Rabbi Hillel asked: “If I am not for myself, who will be? If I am for myself alone, what am I? If not now, when?” Humans, now in the midst of “for myself,” are slowly working their way to “when.” If you don’t have choice, like an ant or like an ant eater or like an eater of ant-eaters or like a bacterial eater of ant-eater-eaters, the ecological cycle will take care of you. On second thought, maybe choice doesn’t make a difference. After all, the global warming universe of consequences is taking care of all of us.
Woof!
Rabbi Hillel asked: “If I am not for myself, who will be? If I am for myself alone, what am I? If not now, when?” Humans, now in the midst of “for myself,” are slowly working their way to “when.” If you don’t have choice, like an ant or like an ant eater or like an eater of ant-eaters or like a bacterial eater of ant-eater-eaters, the ecological cycle will take care of you. On second thought, maybe choice doesn’t make a difference. After all, the global warming universe of consequences is taking care of all of us.
Woof!
2
I am trans. I shiver when people talk or write of a backlash against political correctness, and the example they come up with is "misgendering", or calling me "he" and feeling self-righteous about it. Right now, I do a bit of campaigning- or facebook sharing, at least- in favour of immigrants and refugees, the main target at the moment. First they came for the immigrants. That word "misgendering" here reminds me I am next. Who will be the target after me? Are you sure it won't be you?
I am the incipient target. Have mercy on me! Have mercy on me!
I am the incipient target. Have mercy on me! Have mercy on me!
241
Yes. I do not share your specific issue, but completely agree with your concern and response. This whole anti-PC thing is such a fake, ginned-up, and irresponsible issue. American freedoms, including freedom of speech, are being and long have been abused. If our laws cannot work to protect us, our country and its freedoms are doomed. We are *all* endangered.
8
Abigail, please forgive those of us who, even though well-intentioned, are sometimes confused about which pronoun to use. I plead guilty. I also plead guilty to confusion and some ignorance about people who are transgendered, but I am trying to learn and to comprehend. Some years ago a gay colleague let me know that he and his partner had gotten married in Canada. I offered my congratulations and best wishes, then asked - hesitantly - if they were both "husbands", to which he answered "Yes, both husbands". When I apologized for my ignorance his gracious reply was, "Yes, Dear, but that's o.k., we know you mean well." Many of us do. We support you. Please be patient with us.
4
Abigail Maxwell - "First they came for the immigrants"
No, no, no Abigail no one is coming for the immigrants. They are coming for those who have violated the law by entering or remaining within the United States in violation of law. If you and all your friends, no matter their gender, obey the laws of the United States no one will be coming after you or them. Stop spreading lies and fear, please.
No, no, no Abigail no one is coming for the immigrants. They are coming for those who have violated the law by entering or remaining within the United States in violation of law. If you and all your friends, no matter their gender, obey the laws of the United States no one will be coming after you or them. Stop spreading lies and fear, please.
2
Is single payer an idea whose time has come? Can we raise taxes on millionaires cut, all defense but those troops and ships around Kim Jong Un to pay for it? Which dream would help more people? A wall or single payer? What say ye Rust belters and white blue collar workers?
97
Venezuelan donations to Citgo? Kelly Anne Conway's feet on the Oval Office couch? These are the best examples of "left-wing complaining" that Matt Lalash can come up with? His reliable sources at Wikipedia are letting him down.
What's really getting under the skin of Democrats are Trump's heartless budget priorities, his relentless assault on the environment, a planned tax giveaway to US corporations, the attempt to defund Planned Parenthood and other organizations around the world charged with protecting women's health, and the fact that his EPA head denies the basic science behind climate change, and is acting accordingly. The list goes on.
Lalash's bit might work as material for Stand Up New York (Times), but triviliazing the legitimate concerns behind the Anti-Trump movement is disengenuous.
What's really getting under the skin of Democrats are Trump's heartless budget priorities, his relentless assault on the environment, a planned tax giveaway to US corporations, the attempt to defund Planned Parenthood and other organizations around the world charged with protecting women's health, and the fact that his EPA head denies the basic science behind climate change, and is acting accordingly. The list goes on.
Lalash's bit might work as material for Stand Up New York (Times), but triviliazing the legitimate concerns behind the Anti-Trump movement is disengenuous.
540
Sorry, Labash.
5
How could you miss his point though? He is clear;y saying that while your complaints about the EPA(which he has as well) and other Trump policies that are legitimately destructive may be valid, if there is a non-stop train of inane complaints(he chose a couple that did get major airing and could have added a dozen more) drown out the legitimate ones. Is that really that hard to understand? But instead you ignored his point and attacked him. Good luck trying to sway the independent voter with that.
1
This liberal Dem agrees with Labash on that point. Complaining about Kellyanne's feet undercuts more serious complaints about the evils - yes evils - committed by this administration. Left-leaning media needs to do a better job of prioritizing issues worthy of outrage.
4
"The president, however, has big plans — he seems to be promising to avoid a government shutdown this week while simultaneously delivering on health care, the Mexican wall and tax reform."
Good luck with that. God created the world in a week, or so the Bible says, but I very much doubt He could do as much with Congress, given the dynamics dominating their own self interest.
I think Americans' biggest beef has been, and continues to be, their sense that their concerns are only addressed in campaigns, not in actual governing. Articles galore are devoted to how Trump policies to date appear to be stiffing the working stiff, while his mega donors and fellow billionaires make a killing.
I don't care whether Trump has a White House pet or not. What I care about is survival as a country, and as a people, over the next months and years. And for that, I see little reason for optimism.
Good luck with that. God created the world in a week, or so the Bible says, but I very much doubt He could do as much with Congress, given the dynamics dominating their own self interest.
I think Americans' biggest beef has been, and continues to be, their sense that their concerns are only addressed in campaigns, not in actual governing. Articles galore are devoted to how Trump policies to date appear to be stiffing the working stiff, while his mega donors and fellow billionaires make a killing.
I don't care whether Trump has a White House pet or not. What I care about is survival as a country, and as a people, over the next months and years. And for that, I see little reason for optimism.
317
Personally I don't think the trumps should have any pets. Why would we wish that on any animal? Bad enough he reproduced. Can you imagine what it must be like grow up in a household where your father is just slightly more mature than you are?
"I think Americans' biggest beef has been, and continues to be, their sense that their concerns are only addressed in campaigns, not in actual governing. Articles galore are devoted to how Trump policies to date appear to be stiffing the working stiff, while his mega donors and fellow billionaires make a killing."
So, Christine, my question is, why are the Republicans in power? Why is tRump president? Someone had to put him in power and those who rule who not give a hoot about their "concerns."
If you ask me, Gail, most Americans don't know what they want because they are ignorant of how their government works and the fact that they can control their own destiny; they handed over their power to the GOP, or at least, tolerate (and vote for) the despicable bunch of opportunists that comprise it.
I appreciate the half of the population fighting against the ignoramuses; however, seeing the mess we are in, one has to question the wisdom of the American people. the GOP wasn't exactly a secret organization wanting to overthrow our government, they did it openly.
We are entering another Dark Age. The Church took care to control thought then, today the GOP is doing it.
So, Christine, my question is, why are the Republicans in power? Why is tRump president? Someone had to put him in power and those who rule who not give a hoot about their "concerns."
If you ask me, Gail, most Americans don't know what they want because they are ignorant of how their government works and the fact that they can control their own destiny; they handed over their power to the GOP, or at least, tolerate (and vote for) the despicable bunch of opportunists that comprise it.
I appreciate the half of the population fighting against the ignoramuses; however, seeing the mess we are in, one has to question the wisdom of the American people. the GOP wasn't exactly a secret organization wanting to overthrow our government, they did it openly.
We are entering another Dark Age. The Church took care to control thought then, today the GOP is doing it.
9
"God created the world in a week,"
=
didn't have Congress to thwart, or anti-Trump ankle biters to brush off and swat away
=
and, if we are honest, the world was not made so very well, and God had buyer's remorse and did a reboot at least once, disk-wipe
=
didn't have Congress to thwart, or anti-Trump ankle biters to brush off and swat away
=
and, if we are honest, the world was not made so very well, and God had buyer's remorse and did a reboot at least once, disk-wipe
1
They ignored the coming of an impeachment trial if the FBI can muster enough political courage to release information on the Russian dance the trump campaign polka'd.
It had the potential to be the funniest joust.
It had the potential to be the funniest joust.
57
Doubtful. The FBI and other investigations are only looking at collusion during the campaign. We are now getting used to a President and daughter actively profiteering in office and flagrantly defying laws. Until Trump must turn over his tax records and show which country he owes--all investigations are shams.
3
Yeah, I'm not going to be reading these conversations all the way through any time soon. Frankly I'm tired of the line that somehow the election of Trump is my (Team Blue) fault six ways to Sunday. I'm tired of the notion that decrying hate speech and demanding dignity for all is "politically correct" and overly sensitive and, therefore, limiting or mean or controlling or any other criticism.
Are some young people taking the idea a bit far? IMHO, yes. I consider trigger warnings and 'safe spaces' a bit too far because the real world does not operate that way. Still, we have gotten to a societal place where anyone who does not let it all hang out verbally, laugh at and cheer the racist, bigoted language of Trump et. al. is disparaged as "politically correct," which translates as snobbish and insincere. That is nonsense.
Are some young people taking the idea a bit far? IMHO, yes. I consider trigger warnings and 'safe spaces' a bit too far because the real world does not operate that way. Still, we have gotten to a societal place where anyone who does not let it all hang out verbally, laugh at and cheer the racist, bigoted language of Trump et. al. is disparaged as "politically correct," which translates as snobbish and insincere. That is nonsense.
559
I couldn't agree more.
4
Matt: " In fact, the corporate drone may have political correctness inflicted on him even more aggressively than your average pipe fitter does..." Yeah, we're past that--as O'Reilly walks away with $25 million....
3
Trump makes even Archie Bunker look good.
4
What Dog would want Trump as its master?
An unmitigated disaster
Unloving, unkind
Hostile-to-canine-mind
Picking up after? An aghaster!
An unmitigated disaster
Unloving, unkind
Hostile-to-canine-mind
Picking up after? An aghaster!
134
Cute Larry, but Trump feeds his kids, he'd feed the dog too.
How many children rely on taxpayers and strangers to feed them every day, pay for their healthcare needs, and put a roof over their heads? And that's when they're young: government daddy is a prison cell for too many who are raised with nothing down the road to provide for themselves.
Better to be Trump's pet than an unprovided-for child coming up in a destitute blue state where (don't look now!) but the government money is running out...
How many children rely on taxpayers and strangers to feed them every day, pay for their healthcare needs, and put a roof over their heads? And that's when they're young: government daddy is a prison cell for too many who are raised with nothing down the road to provide for themselves.
Better to be Trump's pet than an unprovided-for child coming up in a destitute blue state where (don't look now!) but the government money is running out...
Yeah. Probably won't have a dog because none would have him.
2
@ midway..... i can't tell what your second paragraph is about but i will guess that you are talking about social injustice?? i can't tell if you think kids should starve or be fed. adults should be jailed or educated? as little as i can understand about this paragraph? i cannot understand why you would equate trump feeding his kids (in your first sentence) with what that means for a person struggling financially and emotionally? you can bet that trump never made a single meal for his children. you can bet he never worried about food in his pantry. don't wallpaper the differences between the wealthy and the struggling.
7
"And if the labor unions — which were the best protectors of good-paying manufacturing jobs — are staggering, it’s in good part because of the anti-union legislation passed by Republican legislatures"-Gail Collins.
I think that it may have been Galbraith who pointed out that labor unions are the most effective counterweight to capitalism. From Taft-Hartley to Scott Walker and now our president, there has been a continuing degradation of the economic and political power organized labor. There have been other forces at work but Ms. Collins is certainly on the right track. However, the Democrats, who are not as nearly at fault as the Republicans, have not been the most reliable friends of labor.
I think that it may have been Galbraith who pointed out that labor unions are the most effective counterweight to capitalism. From Taft-Hartley to Scott Walker and now our president, there has been a continuing degradation of the economic and political power organized labor. There have been other forces at work but Ms. Collins is certainly on the right track. However, the Democrats, who are not as nearly at fault as the Republicans, have not been the most reliable friends of labor.
258
J. K. Galbraith, the Canadian saw us better than we see ourselves.
16
We're not all hosers, eh?
4
This "conversation" was entertainingly irrelevant, unfortunately. However, both Gail and Matt accurately mirror, in their jest, the complete disaffection and lack of any respect that the populace have for our callous and greedy political class, on both sides of the aisle. As has been said before, a vote for Trump was a brick through the window, the brick throwers didn't realize they could easily bring the house down! Right now it's creaking, and I'm very scared! The only truly bipartisan political activities seem to be posturing and self-interest.
168
Then, it follows that we should all recognize that the deepest failure has been the Congress, and this has been so for the last 8 Congressional terms. agreed? They remain such a monumental waste of self-serving protoplasm (with exceptions) that we, the people, should keep up the pressure that our Congressional representatives work for us and not the highest bidders. To 2018 and beyond!
7
The humor keeps the two in the conversation at a distance and stops them from honing in on a point of disagreement and getting serious about it. Mr. Labash seems to feel that all politicians are corrupt and that we cannot expect anything good from them, so we might as well go with the ones who will steal less of our money. This is what we might expect from someone who has enough money that his money worry is about keeping it rather than getting enough to survive beyond next week.
I would like to see serious conversations on issues, but the people who converse for a living know how to avoid being pinned down by their opponents even if their opponents have facts and reason on their side. Perhaps such conversations result in people changing their minds only if the people involved do not do it for a living.
I would like to see serious conversations on issues, but the people who converse for a living know how to avoid being pinned down by their opponents even if their opponents have facts and reason on their side. Perhaps such conversations result in people changing their minds only if the people involved do not do it for a living.
115
I think Labash is akin to a conservative comedy columnist like Alexandria Petrei at the Washington Post. They only use the policy issues as touchpoints to get off a good joke or pun. Like a political Dave Barry, they are following in the footsteps of the Baby Boomers in "old" media establishments so they are not really writing for future readers, just making cynical jokes about the past to grasp their share before the printed market tanks. Always energetic in a puppyish way, the older readers like such humor and do not see them as "thinking" threats, since the jokes are just superficial and skin deep. (especially popular in the Obama administration during the down times when political criticism was effectively disallowed in mainstream papers)
When you think of the young people who will change the future, don't look to writers who write for the past. Never ever trust a cynic, and look closely: most young cynics are not riding their own earnings, they had "help" along the way. These aren't the change-makers we are waiting for, not the ones who will kick over the stalls in the temple, so to speak...
When you think of the young people who will change the future, don't look to writers who write for the past. Never ever trust a cynic, and look closely: most young cynics are not riding their own earnings, they had "help" along the way. These aren't the change-makers we are waiting for, not the ones who will kick over the stalls in the temple, so to speak...
Like refusing to baldly state that Trump lies, lies to get elected, lies, lies, lies?
4
In all the comments about the ludicrous Edwin Edwards, at least his ' elastic relationship ' to truth and facts (which Labash mentions as applying to little djt, bless his heart) was not something Edwards could try to force down the throats of the entire American populace, or lunacy which would guide American policy around the planet.
This makes clueless djt dangerous, in a way no previous U.S. President is known to have been.
We're faced with the situation that djt's ' fake news ' campaign promises are items he wants to blackmail legislators into accommodating (no mater how unsound) while he pretends they were logical/workable, when everyone knew they were snake oil even as he spouted them, not backed by any sort of research, white papers, or advisory panels.
A serial bankruptee trust fund baby is threatening hostage-taking tactics with Congress to get his crackpot, spur-of-the-moment campaign promises enacted as budget items !
And this is even though djt has been assessed as mentally/emotionally unfit by a huge number of psychology professionals, as Gail Sheehy reports:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/yale-psychiatrists-cite-dut...
We need to always be aware what's getting crowded off the front page when djt is trying to grab the daily news cycle with his antics.
This makes clueless djt dangerous, in a way no previous U.S. President is known to have been.
We're faced with the situation that djt's ' fake news ' campaign promises are items he wants to blackmail legislators into accommodating (no mater how unsound) while he pretends they were logical/workable, when everyone knew they were snake oil even as he spouted them, not backed by any sort of research, white papers, or advisory panels.
A serial bankruptee trust fund baby is threatening hostage-taking tactics with Congress to get his crackpot, spur-of-the-moment campaign promises enacted as budget items !
And this is even though djt has been assessed as mentally/emotionally unfit by a huge number of psychology professionals, as Gail Sheehy reports:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/yale-psychiatrists-cite-dut...
We need to always be aware what's getting crowded off the front page when djt is trying to grab the daily news cycle with his antics.
148
Well, we did have the true danger of Andrew Jackson, who supported the annihilation of an entire group of Americans; and Teddy Roosevelt, the first global war President...the first to unilaterally (read illegally) bring war and regime change to other nations as an American President. Not that this puts the ignorant, disgusting Donnie boy in a better light - that is impossible.
4
True--he's making Reagan's senility look nostalgic. It is Congress who is mandated to oversee the President and they are derelict in this. (Let alone investigating the campaign when we citizens are way past that--we want to know who he owes loyalty to by his indebtedness. Or, the constant shilling and profiting by his office.)
8
Seeing the photo of our horny-handed president holding a dog made me wish that the dog was in charge. The dog looks serious and focused. And better dressed. What's with the long red ties? Is it some sort of Freudian arrow, designed to draw the eye?
(You looked, didn't you?)
I grew up in Louisiana, and I still have respect for Edwin Edwards, the intelligent, amiable and populist crook who ran the place with style, wit and panache. It's possible to be a crook in politics without alienating the public and making a mess of the government. The only people who didn't like Edwin were the prosecutors who were so focused on bribes and payoffs that they didn't notice the state was doing pretty well.
Edwin went to jail, while Bobby Jindal, evangelical loon and conservative nut job who ruined the state's economy and destroyed the educational system, still walks free. There is no justice in the world.
I'm tired of the liberals-hate-free-speech thing. College students will have to live in the world conservatives are creating today, so maybe we can excuse their lack of hospitality when right-wing nut jobs want to speak about gay overreach, excessive rights for women, the benefits of family deportation and the evils of taxes.
What are they supposed to do? Listen politely and applaud while their friends and family are castigated? They're not stupid. Hmm.... Maybe that's what makes them a threat to conservatives.
(You looked, didn't you?)
I grew up in Louisiana, and I still have respect for Edwin Edwards, the intelligent, amiable and populist crook who ran the place with style, wit and panache. It's possible to be a crook in politics without alienating the public and making a mess of the government. The only people who didn't like Edwin were the prosecutors who were so focused on bribes and payoffs that they didn't notice the state was doing pretty well.
Edwin went to jail, while Bobby Jindal, evangelical loon and conservative nut job who ruined the state's economy and destroyed the educational system, still walks free. There is no justice in the world.
I'm tired of the liberals-hate-free-speech thing. College students will have to live in the world conservatives are creating today, so maybe we can excuse their lack of hospitality when right-wing nut jobs want to speak about gay overreach, excessive rights for women, the benefits of family deportation and the evils of taxes.
What are they supposed to do? Listen politely and applaud while their friends and family are castigated? They're not stupid. Hmm.... Maybe that's what makes them a threat to conservatives.
728
Gemli - We applaud college students' non-violent resistance to crack-pottery in all its forms, and see their Resistance at providing platforms for right-wing nonsense to be the same as the limits on free speech which prevent a person from shouting out ' fire ' in a crowded public space when there is none, when instead someone is just trying to attract attention to themselves.
98
If young people want a better world. work for it.
Your praising of politicians in the tank, and on the make, is the problem. When we have a skewed system, what you know matters less than who you know. Then you get the Democratic hellholes where nobody smart wants to live because brains matter less than clout. Young people cannot compete there, because the rules do not hold, the system is broken. The best do not rise to the top, they have to be clubbed down...
Eventually the population revolts, as we have against the Democratic makers and takers, and the Bush legacy warmongers. Then, you get a Trump. He's ours. Too bad you cannot find a conservative independent to explain why Trump has the support of smart people across the country. It's not who his is, it's mostly... what he is not. If young Master Labash dislikes him, we know why... the pundits are in the tank for the establishment, no-change, status-quo, Ponzi scheme system we are all still clinging to...
But some people refuse to settle and sell out their souls and freedoms for cold cash. We still know the value of a dollar, and how to compete honestly, on the merits. We're really not all in this together, and that's a good thing.
Your praising of politicians in the tank, and on the make, is the problem. When we have a skewed system, what you know matters less than who you know. Then you get the Democratic hellholes where nobody smart wants to live because brains matter less than clout. Young people cannot compete there, because the rules do not hold, the system is broken. The best do not rise to the top, they have to be clubbed down...
Eventually the population revolts, as we have against the Democratic makers and takers, and the Bush legacy warmongers. Then, you get a Trump. He's ours. Too bad you cannot find a conservative independent to explain why Trump has the support of smart people across the country. It's not who his is, it's mostly... what he is not. If young Master Labash dislikes him, we know why... the pundits are in the tank for the establishment, no-change, status-quo, Ponzi scheme system we are all still clinging to...
But some people refuse to settle and sell out their souls and freedoms for cold cash. We still know the value of a dollar, and how to compete honestly, on the merits. We're really not all in this together, and that's a good thing.
2
@gemli: Trump thinks wearing long ties makes him look slimmer. He's wrong about that, too.
20
These conversations are somewhat entertaining, but reading them feels like watching the floor show at the Titanic, despite knowing the ship's going down sometime later tonight...
437
Rather than watching the floor show on the "Titanic" I am put in mind of smoking in the No. 2 foreward magazine of the "Arizona" on December 7, 1941.
I fail to see the humor in the wholesale trashing of the Country, the Constitution, and the political process that has served us, imperfectly as it has, for almost two hundred years. I don't find the constant lying amusing. I agree to disagree, but not with people who don't think. They tweet. Not the same thing, at all.
But we have what we have is constant string of not thought out tweets, insulting to many, always praising our leader. Are you comfortable with that? I've heard it before. It's not correct to bring up fascism, but if it walks like a duck...
I'm sorry, it looks mighty duck like to me.
I fail to see the humor in the wholesale trashing of the Country, the Constitution, and the political process that has served us, imperfectly as it has, for almost two hundred years. I don't find the constant lying amusing. I agree to disagree, but not with people who don't think. They tweet. Not the same thing, at all.
But we have what we have is constant string of not thought out tweets, insulting to many, always praising our leader. Are you comfortable with that? I've heard it before. It's not correct to bring up fascism, but if it walks like a duck...
I'm sorry, it looks mighty duck like to me.
15
"Last dance.... last dance..."
It's the Baby Boomers final hurrah.
Labash was clearly just brought along as the eye candy... poor kid. He tossed his lot in with the past, and sold out to hop aboard a sinking ship...
It's the Baby Boomers final hurrah.
Labash was clearly just brought along as the eye candy... poor kid. He tossed his lot in with the past, and sold out to hop aboard a sinking ship...
2
Probably after a delicious chocolate cake.
2