In which 19 states has the minimum wage gone up this year? Why, though, does it look like there may not be many more increases voted in? See http://worksnewage.blogspot.com/2017/04/minimum-wage-increases-plenty-in....
NYT: "Who is winning the race for jobs between robots and humans? Last year, two leading economists described a future in which humans come out ahead. But now they’ve declared a different winner: the robots….Robots are to blame for up to 670,000 lost manufacturing jobs between 1990 and 2007, it concluded, and that number will rise because industrial robots are expected to quadruple." http://napoleonlive.info/economics/amazon-job-killer/
I think the most fundamental change resulting from the shift from purchasing from brick and mortar stores to buying online will be the dramatic change in local neighborhoods and to social intercourse. The loss of even one brick and mortar store has downstream effects on other stores. For example, not far from me is an old-fashioned bookstore that has thus far survived. Two stores away is a coffee shop. A good percentage of the coffee shop’s business is derived from people who have bought a book and then decide on the spur of the moment to pop into the coffee shop and enjoy their favorite beverage while leafing through their new book. Since the coffee shop, like many other coffee shops and other businesses such as ice cream parlors, are not in and of themselves destination businesses, they rely on passing trade. Remove the bookstore, and the coffee shop and ice cream parlor are almost certain to go under. I have no illusions that I can slow, let alone stall, the changes wrought by online shopping, but I see no reason to contribute to the decline of the downtown, leading to empty storefronts and reducing the interaction between people.
33
Remember that long before shopping malls arrived to compete for business with local retailers, there were the mail order houses, whose customers shopped from catalogues where they were frequently offered cheaper &/or greater variety of products, than those being supplied by local retailers. The best known was Sears & Roebuck. There was Montgomery Ward & several others of varying size & importance. To me the business model was very like the internet shopping of today, except that that both the exhibiting of products & the transactions were done through snail mail (parcel post, etc), rather than the internet.
41
To put things in a slightly different perspective, this is from the Bureau of Labor.
"Employment of retail sales workers is projected to grow 7 percent from 2014 to 2024, about as fast as the average for all occupations. Many workers leave this occupation, which means there will be a large number of job openings."
Median pay is 11 $/hr
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm
"Employment of retail sales workers is projected to grow 7 percent from 2014 to 2024, about as fast as the average for all occupations. Many workers leave this occupation, which means there will be a large number of job openings."
Median pay is 11 $/hr
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm
6
So government should " effectively manage change"??? The NY Times seems to be very effective at totally ignoring the obvious point that government has great difficulty "managing" the status quo much less anticipating and "managing" societal change.
Are we really at a point where we The People need to be "managed" by our government?? That is insane and shows how out of touch (intentionally so) the Times remains.
Are we really at a point where we The People need to be "managed" by our government?? That is insane and shows how out of touch (intentionally so) the Times remains.
11
"...But contrary to popular perception, they do not validate the pervasive — though overblown — fear that technology will create a jobless future."
Technology might not be a threat to jobs in the near future, but long term,( 30-50 years) from now, technology will be a lethal threat to most entry level /manual/ service jobs. Even lawyers will be threatened. 50 years from now, people will be represented in court by a "SIRI" like application. Technology will create a completely new economic system.A new model for which, Society will have to adapt to.
People have the choice to vote for politicians who will work to make sure the country is prepared for such changes or vote for politicians who will promise to bring these dying jobs back.
Technology might not be a threat to jobs in the near future, but long term,( 30-50 years) from now, technology will be a lethal threat to most entry level /manual/ service jobs. Even lawyers will be threatened. 50 years from now, people will be represented in court by a "SIRI" like application. Technology will create a completely new economic system.A new model for which, Society will have to adapt to.
People have the choice to vote for politicians who will work to make sure the country is prepared for such changes or vote for politicians who will promise to bring these dying jobs back.
3
All bricks-and-mortar organizations will soon fade, including bricks-and-mortar education institutions. Community colleges will go first, then more and more portions of university degrees will move to online instruction, then finally K-12. New and engaging ways of learning will result. It's already happening, it'll just accelerate now.
6
What a pathetic commentary your headline casts on our economic system. Once a nation that actually made things, we are now defined by how well we traffic in consumer junk.
8
The larger issue of automation is more interesting. The 19th century had its Luddites. And we think that, more of the same, factory work will simply shift into some other line of work. But what work is left? Day care? House cleaning? You clean my house, I'll clean your's? Home health care could be huge, but would require huge subsidies. Infrastructure, yeah!
There's no shortage of creative original research requiring advanced STEM ware. More edu-debt?
There's no shortage of creative original research requiring advanced STEM ware. More edu-debt?
3
I haven't been shopping for months, only shop a couple times a year
why? I don't need stuff, im simple. I save money for retirement, spend on necessities.
shopping (online or retail) is wasteful and overrated. use money more wisely. americans should shop less
why? I don't need stuff, im simple. I save money for retirement, spend on necessities.
shopping (online or retail) is wasteful and overrated. use money more wisely. americans should shop less
12
Corporations are saving money by automating and dumping people. Can't Congress address the consequent chaos by taxing these corporate profits to finance much needed activities that would employ people?
12
I have been curbing my buying. Only companies with headquarters and production in Blue states. The Red states are costing me quite enough money. Sorry LL Bean.
26
I'm trying to make sense of the working and middle class landscape perceived the NYT. When retail jobs are threatened it is also a threat to the country, but when manufacturing jobs are threatened the problem isn't acknowledged for a few decades. When it is acknowledged it is blamed on automation and not the offshoring of jobs, as everyone can see that most products in stores these days still say 'Made in the USA' (not). The job losses were justified to support globalization as people in other countries apparently needed the jobs more, and it supported more social agenda items than keeping the jobs in the US. The advice for displaced factory workers was to move to cities and get jobs, which many did in retail, but cities just like the rest of country are witnessing a shrinking middle and working class so they will need to join the other multitudes in the growing lower class as the jobs in retail disappear too.
Companies made the changes affecting so many, and so many supported the changes with their pocketbooks. You can count on people to trade off long term benefits for short term gain, and companies have become very good in helping people make those decisions. Companies too have been making similar tradeoffs, and we are seeing effects of it around the world. Government, meaning both political parties, have supported the changes as inequality has continued to increase regardless of who is in office.
Companies made the changes affecting so many, and so many supported the changes with their pocketbooks. You can count on people to trade off long term benefits for short term gain, and companies have become very good in helping people make those decisions. Companies too have been making similar tradeoffs, and we are seeing effects of it around the world. Government, meaning both political parties, have supported the changes as inequality has continued to increase regardless of who is in office.
8
Remember, Obama's Jobs Bill? That died before Congress even looked at it? Well, had the GOP put country before party, that bill would have started the rebuilding of our crumbling infrastructure and created hundreds of thousands of jobs! But the very people who need well paying jobs, keep voting for the party of billionaires, are they daft?!
So the Middle Class continues its decline, malls close, small towns crumble and die, as their youngsters become addicted to opioids! A death spiral for America.
Keep voting for the GOP and we will see the end of the Great Experiment. The people who are being hurt do not value science, education or truth. They want the easy road to wealth. There is no easy road, it takes work, education and more hard work! If you can't find a decent paying job in your area then you must consider moving. No one will come to rescue you!
Especially, not #45! He doesn't care for you, he conned you!
So the Middle Class continues its decline, malls close, small towns crumble and die, as their youngsters become addicted to opioids! A death spiral for America.
Keep voting for the GOP and we will see the end of the Great Experiment. The people who are being hurt do not value science, education or truth. They want the easy road to wealth. There is no easy road, it takes work, education and more hard work! If you can't find a decent paying job in your area then you must consider moving. No one will come to rescue you!
Especially, not #45! He doesn't care for you, he conned you!
33
Retail has always been the great engine of the American economy since the end of the war in Viet Nam.
How come the esteemed Editiorial Board is just now figuring that fact out?
How come the esteemed Editiorial Board is just now figuring that fact out?
9
Here is my reading of the zeitgeist based on a series of recent movies, content analysis of the news media, reader comments and outright hostility to any human need from our elected leaders:
--"They want us dead . . . or in their lie." That line from "Thin Red Line" describes the attitude of the Republican Party toward the American people. Sufficient numbers of the "little people" are willing to live the lie, thinking it will win them favor from the misanthropic "representatives" who serve only the ultra, ultra wealthy.
--Suicide is rising. More Americans are dying from "despair." A recent movie called "The Discovery" presented a mass suicide scenario that doesn't seem that farfetched. Americans are in despair. We have a profound feeling that we are no longer needed and definitely not wanted.
--Artificial Intelligence and robotics will soon take care of the needs of the rich, making actual, needy, problematic humans even less necessary. The survivors will be the rich. The useless poor and middle class are doomed. People are no longer the point of civilization. We are the problem.
--Cruelty and hatred are the dominant moods. Our hateful, petty, vengeful president and his fellow sadists are proof of that. The Americans who voted for these tyrants are clearly suicidal and self-hating.
--"They want us dead . . . or in their lie." That line from "Thin Red Line" describes the attitude of the Republican Party toward the American people. Sufficient numbers of the "little people" are willing to live the lie, thinking it will win them favor from the misanthropic "representatives" who serve only the ultra, ultra wealthy.
--Suicide is rising. More Americans are dying from "despair." A recent movie called "The Discovery" presented a mass suicide scenario that doesn't seem that farfetched. Americans are in despair. We have a profound feeling that we are no longer needed and definitely not wanted.
--Artificial Intelligence and robotics will soon take care of the needs of the rich, making actual, needy, problematic humans even less necessary. The survivors will be the rich. The useless poor and middle class are doomed. People are no longer the point of civilization. We are the problem.
--Cruelty and hatred are the dominant moods. Our hateful, petty, vengeful president and his fellow sadists are proof of that. The Americans who voted for these tyrants are clearly suicidal and self-hating.
30
If Hillary had won, this trend would clearly be reversing itself: is this what Times readers think? Can you truly be so myopic as to not have seen the writing on the wall for decades?
Long-term cultural change (precipitated by technology) cannot be altered by a single man or woman in the White House. Trump won't fix America, but he sure as hell didn't break it. You people did.
Long-term cultural change (precipitated by technology) cannot be altered by a single man or woman in the White House. Trump won't fix America, but he sure as hell didn't break it. You people did.
11
Buy American, where exactly?
14
I worked for a privately held retailer (yellow) and then a publicly held (yellow) retailer who handled labor costs in different methods. Yellow retailer reduced the number of hourly employees work hours to save labor costs but left all salaried management intact. Red retailer reduced the number of salaried managers and then hired additional hourly workers. Which approach do you think is more important to the in-store customer? Which approach is more important to the shareholder / owners?
5
Low-wage service workers should have predictable, constant schedules. It should be forced on them by law. Large companies, such as WalMart, know their work - flow patterns down to the hour and can easily accommodate this. Companies doing this are purposefully discouraging and preventing people getting 2nd p/t jobs. On top of not being able to plan for family, daycare, drs. appts, etc.
14
Seems like time for a new economic paradigm.
7
On-line retailing is the in-thing for the young, participating in weekly environmental discussions; a typical example of the left hand not knowing what the right-hand does.
4
...and the daughter, who, could have her "fashion" line manufactured in the US, does so in CHINA. No double standard there, or am I missing something?!?
16
Yada, yada, yada. . . Get rid of cars and planes, get rid of computers, and return to the horse and plow. You really can't have your cake and eat it too.
5
Perhaps if THE EDITORIAL BOARD could re-frame the problem as likely to seriously affect Ivanka's bottom line, both she and her father might be inclined to act in some helpful way. Deal with the administration we have, not the one we wish we had, or should have.
4
No matter the service expected: how many times did you have to wait for the person 'working' to look up from their phone?
7
" The reasons for the grim work lives...", is capitalism. All the measures suggested here to alleviate capitalism's human carnage are socialist strategies and tactics. The better way of life is obvious.
7
I remember a thriving downtown in the town In grew up in in PA. In the 60's. Small mom and pop shops (who knew your name), a high end department store where employees were experts in their area. Shoe stores where the salesmen knew the shoes and measured you for the perfect fit. I can remember going there with my dad as new shoes were an event.
Fast forward to the later 70's. A new, large suburban mall was being built on an old corn field. Once it opened, everyone flocked there. It was at once a new place to shop, but also a new place to socialize. "We will meet you at the mall" was a common refrain. There was so much to do and see; eat, drink, shop, socialize.
The downside, of course, was that the small mom and pop store had trouble finding customers. The big department store closed. The downtown looked like a ghost town.
Suburban sprawl took over much of the 80-90's. Large retail box stores were opened. Soon, not many mom and pop shops. Downtown became ghetto.
And now? The malls are in trouble. Large retailers, who opened stores willy-nilly seemingly everywhere, are closing. People are losing jobs. The high end malls stay open for one good reason--good professional staff, weekly sales. Beautiful visual displays that feel like an event, not a chore. People like that.
I do shop on line, but prefer going to a small, independent store as it is still an event for me. And therein lies the problem in current retail: it is not special anymore. They need to re-think that.
Fast forward to the later 70's. A new, large suburban mall was being built on an old corn field. Once it opened, everyone flocked there. It was at once a new place to shop, but also a new place to socialize. "We will meet you at the mall" was a common refrain. There was so much to do and see; eat, drink, shop, socialize.
The downside, of course, was that the small mom and pop store had trouble finding customers. The big department store closed. The downtown looked like a ghost town.
Suburban sprawl took over much of the 80-90's. Large retail box stores were opened. Soon, not many mom and pop shops. Downtown became ghetto.
And now? The malls are in trouble. Large retailers, who opened stores willy-nilly seemingly everywhere, are closing. People are losing jobs. The high end malls stay open for one good reason--good professional staff, weekly sales. Beautiful visual displays that feel like an event, not a chore. People like that.
I do shop on line, but prefer going to a small, independent store as it is still an event for me. And therein lies the problem in current retail: it is not special anymore. They need to re-think that.
13
Yep! It's about enough money! But, there is another significant negative effect of the major decline in Mall and outdoor shopping, which created many retail and other jobs too!....That old moniker of shop till you drop, at least got lots of folks out there, and moving about! That, in many instances was the only exercise for lots of folks! Look around today and there are more obese folks in America than ever! The only exercise they seem to get is moving their fingers!!!
5
Here is a great idea - in the face of the loss of these human interface jobs - let's raise the minimum wage!
6
The more the minimum wage is raised, the greater the incentive for companies to replace increasingly more expensive no-skill / low-skill minimum wage workers with increasingly less expensive and more efficient automation. The end result will be more unemployed ex-minimum wage workers.
3
We have built up businesses and companies based on lots of people buying stuff, often useless or contributing sooner or later to our throwaway culture. We obviously have too many people on this planet when we have to create junk to keep people in work. And now, there are many people without jobs that are angry and dissatisfied and taking it out in violent ways.
17
We live in a neo feudal two class society, with the gap between the top and vast majority widening. Propaganda won the election, but you can only mutter 'let them eat cake' under your breath for so long and get away with it. Once the former middle class, now lower feudal class, realize they've been had, Trump will need a big distraction, a rally round the flag war seems inevitable.
9
America the Stupid looks to a bankrupted casino mogul to cure it of Lotto mentality.
Wonderland has exploded out of the rabbit hole.
Wonderland has exploded out of the rabbit hole.
16
They can always get a job at a bank like chase with no college degree and be paid $100,000+ selling bank accounts.
2
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them."
I'll have a toke of whatever the editorial board is smoking.
I'll have a toke of whatever the editorial board is smoking.
11
Politicians fear technology will lead to a jobless future. Engineers hope it will.
5
Engineers in San Jose better start fearing the millions of people who are about to become jobless due to engineers in San Jose, because there's an extraordinary anti-tech backlash looming on the horizon.
9
The J.C. Penny store in my small town will be closing in a few months, and all of the people that work there will lose their jobs. This town is too small to provide new jobs for all of those people, and many of them cannot afford to just pack up and move to where the jobs are, as has been suggested by some comments on this article. Our main street will now have two large commercial spaces sitting empty, it is a depressing sight.
I don't go shopping to have an "experience", I go shopping to get what I need, and the sooner it is over, the better. I cannot afford to go shopping to get what I want. I think the people on the editorial staff at the NYT need to get out more often and see the many communities in America that are living (sort of living) with the consequences of greedy, profit driven policies. I have always said that some people just have too much money, how can these bazillionaires keep striving to get more and more, what do they do with all of this money? I have to conclude that it is all just a big game to them to see who can accumulate the most. They do not seem to understand that everyone needs a safe home and enough food for themselves and their children, worse yet, they do not seem to care.
As to the last sentence, 45 does not CARE about anyone but himself. Oh well, that's my comment, it won't change anything.
I don't go shopping to have an "experience", I go shopping to get what I need, and the sooner it is over, the better. I cannot afford to go shopping to get what I want. I think the people on the editorial staff at the NYT need to get out more often and see the many communities in America that are living (sort of living) with the consequences of greedy, profit driven policies. I have always said that some people just have too much money, how can these bazillionaires keep striving to get more and more, what do they do with all of this money? I have to conclude that it is all just a big game to them to see who can accumulate the most. They do not seem to understand that everyone needs a safe home and enough food for themselves and their children, worse yet, they do not seem to care.
As to the last sentence, 45 does not CARE about anyone but himself. Oh well, that's my comment, it won't change anything.
89
Agree!
4
When wages flatline, and paying the bills for a family of four is increasingly harder and harder (housing and healthcare alone kill family budgets), you're not going to see workers spend discretionary income on retail items. No surprise seeing GDP & retail #'s month after month.
Yes, people who are laid off need help - and - there are other darker undercurrents happening that the NYT should be covering: ageism is pervasive in the workplace along with an ugly negative bias towards anyone who is unemployed. So while there may be no shortage of low-wage work, only a certain cohort of workers become re-hired.
President Trump needs to promote policies to help these workers - absolutely - but we all should be helping. NYT should be featuring stories of companies and individuals bringing solutions to the marketplace and to underemployed workers (TechHire, for example, is one). If the 2016 election taught us anything, it's that leadership is not someone else's problem - POTUS can't solve these problems alone - we all need to step up, become active and create solutions at a state and local level.
The times we're living in demands this of us all.
Yes, people who are laid off need help - and - there are other darker undercurrents happening that the NYT should be covering: ageism is pervasive in the workplace along with an ugly negative bias towards anyone who is unemployed. So while there may be no shortage of low-wage work, only a certain cohort of workers become re-hired.
President Trump needs to promote policies to help these workers - absolutely - but we all should be helping. NYT should be featuring stories of companies and individuals bringing solutions to the marketplace and to underemployed workers (TechHire, for example, is one). If the 2016 election taught us anything, it's that leadership is not someone else's problem - POTUS can't solve these problems alone - we all need to step up, become active and create solutions at a state and local level.
The times we're living in demands this of us all.
3
I still buy clothes and shoes, for myself and my family, in a store. And, actually, the sales help have usually been very helpful. But household goods I buy online.
5
Whenever I am feeling at odds with myself, I dream of being in a mall crawling through all the stalls, while knowing there is nothing there to fill my bill. I don't need a new dress at that juncture, I need to tear down the barn and build a studio.
Maybe people start to use Amazon or similar companies for price but they stay for quality of the experience. I would rather pay extra to shop online then go to the circle of hell that retail stores, especially large ones have become. The dual nightmare of unknowledgeable staff with a generally poor attitude makes a trip to the mall like a trip to the dentist. Look at the history of ATM machines, at first people didn't trust them and walked past to the tellers. Today I don't know anyone who goes to a teller unless they absolutely have to.
8
"The dual nightmare of unknowledgeable staff with a generally poor attitude makes a trip to the mall like a trip to the dentist."
On my last trip to a shopping mall I encountered tellers who did not know were anything way and many who did not even speak English.
On my last trip to a shopping mall I encountered tellers who did not know were anything way and many who did not even speak English.
4
Crowded highways, parking, crowds, and beat-up merchandise on off is somewhat of a turn-off for us.
4
Two thoughts: Neither GenX nor the Millenials have seen a Sears catalog
The entire premise is flawed. Service jobs dependon someone who can afford the services. Retail jobs depend on someone who can afford to go shopping. When the DNC sold out the working class by sending manufacturing jobs overseas, the death of retail jobs was inevitable. The real surprise is only that it took so long for the jobs to disappear.
The entire premise is flawed. Service jobs dependon someone who can afford the services. Retail jobs depend on someone who can afford to go shopping. When the DNC sold out the working class by sending manufacturing jobs overseas, the death of retail jobs was inevitable. The real surprise is only that it took so long for the jobs to disappear.
6
Both parties sold out, the US Chamber of Commerce lobbyied for outsourcing and H1-bvisas and its republican. Both parties are guilty of selling out the American worker. At least, the democratic party believes in paid retraining, the republicans use you up then kick you to the curb with no healthcare !
5
I don't remember the party plank that required sending manufacturing jobs overseas. I do remember a lot of companies deciding that they wanted to get rid of American labor costs, and opting to make stuff where farm-fresh peasants -- nearly slaves -- could be had for pennies on the dollar.
Everybody want to blame one politician or another. The problem is a system that demands the absolute lowest labor cost, no matter what the impact.
Everybody want to blame one politician or another. The problem is a system that demands the absolute lowest labor cost, no matter what the impact.
6
The immediate need is to make sure that workers and the public are safe: with an increased chance of violence at shopping malls, at movie theaters and vehicular accidents on the road, consumers have weighed the risks preferring to buy online and live better, safer lives. Especially when health care costs are on the rise - don't blame them.
Years ago the shopping mall was a major destination for my friends - we would hang out for hours, adoring every store. Such great memories!!! But then things grew unsafe: gangs started showing up near the movie theaters; we were told to stay at one end of the mall when certain groups were at another. As the environment grew even more unsafe at one mall, we went to another, then another and then eventually never went back. Safety first.
How can retail overcome these challenges: safe roads and safe public spaces?
Years ago the shopping mall was a major destination for my friends - we would hang out for hours, adoring every store. Such great memories!!! But then things grew unsafe: gangs started showing up near the movie theaters; we were told to stay at one end of the mall when certain groups were at another. As the environment grew even more unsafe at one mall, we went to another, then another and then eventually never went back. Safety first.
How can retail overcome these challenges: safe roads and safe public spaces?
5
This problem isn't just in retail. In my rural state we have numerous dairy farms requiring human labor. Years ago these farms needed more workers then they need now due to automation. In a local market 4 cashier positions have been replaced with self-service scanners, saving the company money. And due to on-line banking several teller positions at local banks have been eliminated. The list goes on and I see no end in sight.
1
Interesting question to ask is, in a grocery market that offers the option of automated check-out, how do the customers split between the cashier and cashier-free scanner lanes?
For me, it is usually faster and less complicated to use the automated lines than to use the cashier staffed ones.
What does that say about the operative service modules?
For me, it is usually faster and less complicated to use the automated lines than to use the cashier staffed ones.
What does that say about the operative service modules?
3
The reason why workers at retail stores are so much less focused on customer service is their meager pay, and lack of hours. In Houston where I live, the living wage is estimated to be 11 dollars an hour. http://livingwage.mit.edu/ As a matter of fact, non-managerial retail jobs at Houston big box stores pay $8.50-$9.00 and in other service jobs pay $8 and below. (The minimum wage here is $7.50). Of course, this living wage estimate depends on working 40 hours a week, which is unlikely. (it's more like 30 hours or less). Health insurance is almost never included (with Walmart being the surprising exception). It's more important to make sure jobs pay a livable wage than preserving jobs that only put people more in debt.
6
Is there any room for discussion, NotKafka, for what the job is actually worth in terms of productivity and importance to the organization's operation?
Detach this from the emotional blackmail issue that you are pushing, please, in order to get an objective assessment of the merits of this question.
Detach this from the emotional blackmail issue that you are pushing, please, in order to get an objective assessment of the merits of this question.
6
When the robotic-workers sort and pack the products at the online retail warehouses, those folks will be out of work, too.
3
Ockham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is a problem-solving principle attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347),..His principle can be interpreted as stating Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected."
I resepctfully suggest the Times editors to keep this in front of them when they write editorials. In this particular case, in order for business to compete, they must reduce their model down to the bare minimum, so YES jobs will be lost, benefits will go and eventually those left after donny's reign will be working for bare minimum wage. globalization will have its way, and products will be largely junk because materials cost money and therefore the least cost that suffices to make the product will be what is spent. Shoes are now mostly plastic, the soles are hollowed out eggcrate type and they last but months of daily wear. clothing is shoddily made, too much of the same thing in every store so competition is reduced and the one nearest the consumer (in this case the NET) will get the business = ebay or amazon or overstockdotcom.
As human evolution takes over, we will no longer need legs, out arms will wither to t-rex size because that is all we need to hold the iphone.
If this all sounds cynical, just look at the "devopment of things" over the past 50 years. sophistication has turned into simplicity, it costs more to make something than to buy something so "do-it-yourself is a dinosaur idea. good luck.
I resepctfully suggest the Times editors to keep this in front of them when they write editorials. In this particular case, in order for business to compete, they must reduce their model down to the bare minimum, so YES jobs will be lost, benefits will go and eventually those left after donny's reign will be working for bare minimum wage. globalization will have its way, and products will be largely junk because materials cost money and therefore the least cost that suffices to make the product will be what is spent. Shoes are now mostly plastic, the soles are hollowed out eggcrate type and they last but months of daily wear. clothing is shoddily made, too much of the same thing in every store so competition is reduced and the one nearest the consumer (in this case the NET) will get the business = ebay or amazon or overstockdotcom.
As human evolution takes over, we will no longer need legs, out arms will wither to t-rex size because that is all we need to hold the iphone.
If this all sounds cynical, just look at the "devopment of things" over the past 50 years. sophistication has turned into simplicity, it costs more to make something than to buy something so "do-it-yourself is a dinosaur idea. good luck.
1
The typical trump voter wants in both ways as consumer and producer with high wages and low prices yet consistently support anti labor, anti child care, anti maternity leave, anti health care, anti everything but tax cuts for the 1%. Until and unless these voters understand that they have been pawns in a grand cultural war now playing in its 50th year there will never be meaningful economic reform. When you shop Walmart and wonder why every other downtown store is shuttered, its time to look inward and reflect on the choices you made and the leaders you choose.
12
The damage Ronnie Raygun inflicted upon the middle class just keeps on giving. Good paying union jobs were the foundation of the mile class that propelled the economy from the forties to the beginning of the seventies. Anti-union sentiment always present found a welcoming home in the revamped GOP with the Southern Strategy. You look at any vibrant economy and society in Europe you have strong unions. The working an mile class with a strong voice is the backbone of any well functioning democracy. Waiting for the orange one to help them will result in disappointment, they need to fix it themselves, that is how unions started in the first place.
10
As a small, yet successful retailer, I'm also moving my business online. While my stores are still thriving, the writing is on the wall. Regular sales growth is starting to slow down.
I think that the move online is sad. Honestly, sad. The way that people live their lives today, so completely unconnected from their local communities, and so totally connected with their gadgets, is sad. I don't live that way, but most people do. No more book stores, no movie movie rental, no more music stores, no move local hardware stores, etc. And why? Why? so that people can spend more time gazing into their phones? So that they can save a few pennies?
What an empty way to live.
I think that the move online is sad. Honestly, sad. The way that people live their lives today, so completely unconnected from their local communities, and so totally connected with their gadgets, is sad. I don't live that way, but most people do. No more book stores, no movie movie rental, no more music stores, no move local hardware stores, etc. And why? Why? so that people can spend more time gazing into their phones? So that they can save a few pennies?
What an empty way to live.
9
Online shopping is not the only reason for the "death" of retail stores. Increasing theft, shoplifting and employee theft, are also factors. That may be attributed to our moral decay, only likely to increase with the many morally hollow individuals in the White House and Congress. (While proclaiming their strong religious beliefs, they conveniently forget that pesky 8th commandment!)
In this respect, Amazon's new supermarket may be the model for the future, as morals continue to decline. Every item the shopper picks up is immediately charged to his/her account. This is a case where Big Brother is needed and welcomed.
In this respect, Amazon's new supermarket may be the model for the future, as morals continue to decline. Every item the shopper picks up is immediately charged to his/her account. This is a case where Big Brother is needed and welcomed.
1
I have had more pleasant interactions with salespeople during the last two months that I have been living in Germany than I had all of last year in the United States. It's extraordinary. Salespeople in Germany are more pleasant and helpful now than they have ever been in the 20 years I have been coming here. The fact that none of them work on Sundays or, for the most part, later than 8pm on the other days undoubtedly contributes to their overall well-being and their willingness to do their jobs well. We Americans could learn something from them.
9
This fix on the loss of brick and mortar is long over: Do away with the out-of-date sales tax exemption for ALL online sales. It's initial justification no longer exists (to encourage the growth of the online marketplace). The argument that application of the various State and Local sales taxes would be too difficult to calculate is - and has always been - bogus. Moreover, in the overwhelming cases, revocation of the requirement to collect sales tax does NOT constitute a tax increase. State use tax still applies and imposes a burdensome and largely unknown obligation on the part of the buyer to pay the same amount of tax to tax authorities.
The result has been devastating on the traditional marketplace that is in competition with this tax-advantaged "new" online marketplace. The end results: bankruptcies, empty shopping malls, a substantial loss of overall employment, and a particularly painful substantial loss of local employees supplanted by employment of fewer employees in a limited number of isolated locales.
One accommodation should be considered for mom-and-pop online marketing companies. Imposition of a standardized national VAT that would be collected by a central clearinghouse which would forward payments to the subset of states and municipalities that imposes sales taxes.
The result has been devastating on the traditional marketplace that is in competition with this tax-advantaged "new" online marketplace. The end results: bankruptcies, empty shopping malls, a substantial loss of overall employment, and a particularly painful substantial loss of local employees supplanted by employment of fewer employees in a limited number of isolated locales.
One accommodation should be considered for mom-and-pop online marketing companies. Imposition of a standardized national VAT that would be collected by a central clearinghouse which would forward payments to the subset of states and municipalities that imposes sales taxes.
1
I just don't get this editorial. It is simply highlighting the "effect" - the "cause" is altogether something else: The U.S. has become a nation of underachievers, or un- or undereducated, the self-entitled and me-first types. Until this country starts to re-prioritize a ethos of hard-work and self-improvement, we will never again develop enough of the jobs that support a middle-class economic society.
When you have few people with specialized skills, and a huge and ever-increasing supply of people with no skills, it is very easy and in fact economically rational to automate and supplant people with machines. This editorial total misses the mark in that regard!
When you have few people with specialized skills, and a huge and ever-increasing supply of people with no skills, it is very easy and in fact economically rational to automate and supplant people with machines. This editorial total misses the mark in that regard!
3
College educated people are not the only people on earth who work hard. Impossible for many Times readers to believe, but it is true.
3
I've been wondering for more than a decade what to do with these vacuous buildings. As we seem to be at disease with folks living outside the boundaries of our comfort zones, why not a more Roman, or civic approach to living? Individual markets and baths and places to rest as we test out the limits of this living space.
2
[adds missing word from my prior comment:
This fix on the loss of brick and mortar is long OVERDUE: Do away with the out-of-date sales tax exemption for ALL online sales. It's initial justification no longer exists (to encourage the growth of the online marketplace). The argument that application of the various State and Local sales taxes would be too difficult to calculate is - and has always been - bogus. Moreover, in the overwhelming cases, revocation of the requirement to collect sales tax does NOT constitute a tax increase. State use tax still applies and imposes a burdensome and largely unknown obligation on the part of the buyer to pay the same amount of tax to tax authorities.
The result has been devastating on the traditional marketplace that is in competition with this tax-advantaged "new" online marketplace. The end results: bankruptcies, empty shopping malls, a substantial loss of overall employment, and a particularly painful substantial loss of local employees supplanted by employment of fewer employees in a limited number of isolated locales.
One accommodation should be considered for mom-and-pop online marketing companies. Imposition of a standardized national VAT that would be collected by a central clearinghouse which would forward payments to the subset of states and municipalities that imposes sales taxes.
This fix on the loss of brick and mortar is long OVERDUE: Do away with the out-of-date sales tax exemption for ALL online sales. It's initial justification no longer exists (to encourage the growth of the online marketplace). The argument that application of the various State and Local sales taxes would be too difficult to calculate is - and has always been - bogus. Moreover, in the overwhelming cases, revocation of the requirement to collect sales tax does NOT constitute a tax increase. State use tax still applies and imposes a burdensome and largely unknown obligation on the part of the buyer to pay the same amount of tax to tax authorities.
The result has been devastating on the traditional marketplace that is in competition with this tax-advantaged "new" online marketplace. The end results: bankruptcies, empty shopping malls, a substantial loss of overall employment, and a particularly painful substantial loss of local employees supplanted by employment of fewer employees in a limited number of isolated locales.
One accommodation should be considered for mom-and-pop online marketing companies. Imposition of a standardized national VAT that would be collected by a central clearinghouse which would forward payments to the subset of states and municipalities that imposes sales taxes.
1
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them." Not in his nature. Not in the nature of any republican I can think at present.
I closed my boutique guitar shop in 2012 when it became obvious that the newly empowered republican congress had only one job in mind; taking the one away from the black guy in the White House. Not doing anything to create jobs for the rest of US.
What brick and mortar retail needs to survive and succeed is a Nation full of employed people with money to spend. When we all need to watch the pennies all the time real hands on shopping is a luxury many just can't afford.
I closed my boutique guitar shop in 2012 when it became obvious that the newly empowered republican congress had only one job in mind; taking the one away from the black guy in the White House. Not doing anything to create jobs for the rest of US.
What brick and mortar retail needs to survive and succeed is a Nation full of employed people with money to spend. When we all need to watch the pennies all the time real hands on shopping is a luxury many just can't afford.
14
Well said!
1
In a capitalistic democracy there must be a balance between democracy and capitalism. We are out of balance with capitalism weighing heavily over democracy when it comes to work. It should be a partnership not 'one or the other'. Their goals are different. For instance if the economy due to automation displaces workers and the gig economy keeps growing then it becomes important that government through taxes provide the services that work no longer provides like healthcare and education. It is a society's decision. Instead of thinking this through we are divided and encouraged to hold grudges against each other and thus get nothing done. We need to incorporate flexibility in our thinking to find creative solutions.
8
Very empty editorial.
Talk about a hanging fast ball: "Service workers are poorly paid and have few benefits because of intentional policy decisions, not impersonal forces."
Exactly whose decisions, what decisions?
Please remember that doctors, lawyers, architects, etc. are service workers, as are politicians.
Talk about a hanging fast ball: "Service workers are poorly paid and have few benefits because of intentional policy decisions, not impersonal forces."
Exactly whose decisions, what decisions?
Please remember that doctors, lawyers, architects, etc. are service workers, as are politicians.
7
Work in warehousing or distribution for one of the giants and you'll quickly understand that those jobs are a step down in every way. First, Amazon for example is extremely limited in giving full time work. Most positions are part time and every aspect of productivity is measured continuously. The work itself is exhausting and repetitive at best, and it often it brings out the worst as people find ways to simulate work and leave their colleagues with a heavier load.
9
Most jobs are tiring and repetitive, and particularly so as one goes down the economic ladder.
Why are you singling out Amazon or Wal-Mart fulfillment operations when there is comparability across the spectrum of employment?
By giving your premise a little more accuracy, your conclusion becomes somewhat strained, BJK.
Why are you singling out Amazon or Wal-Mart fulfillment operations when there is comparability across the spectrum of employment?
By giving your premise a little more accuracy, your conclusion becomes somewhat strained, BJK.
Corporations can't be blamed for improving their bottom lines by dumping people in favor of machines that work 24/7 at less cost, with no benefits, and no overtime. And they can't be blamed for asking Congress to further increase their bottom line by lowering taxes, lessening regulation, mandating fewer benefits, enabling mergers, etc.
But Congress can be blamed for slavishly following the requests of their corporate sponsors and forgetting entirely their oaths of office, forgetting entirely government by and for the people.
Employment can be found in people-related jobs like education, rehabilitation, child & elder care, constructing affordable housing, providing healthcare and education, maintaining the environment, improving infrastructure, ... Congress can support these activities and finance them by taxing profits made from automation to help fix the chaos that shift creates.
But Congress can be blamed for slavishly following the requests of their corporate sponsors and forgetting entirely their oaths of office, forgetting entirely government by and for the people.
Employment can be found in people-related jobs like education, rehabilitation, child & elder care, constructing affordable housing, providing healthcare and education, maintaining the environment, improving infrastructure, ... Congress can support these activities and finance them by taxing profits made from automation to help fix the chaos that shift creates.
17
When the healthcare industry consumes more than 50% of the GNP of the nation each year, how are people going to be able to obtain things like food, clothing, and shelter at reasonable prices?
2
Let's look at the flip side to the diminishing retail landscape. Malls close and along with it all the vehicle pollution decreases and seas of flat, ugly surface parking are better utilized as park space or more dense housing. Shopping as a community based form of recreation ends (conspicuous consumption) and is replaced with real community bonding experiences in parks or playgrounds. American's free time can be refocused to personal education, maybe even reading books will come back as a way to pass the time. People may take lower paying service jobs, but maybe the money not spent on needless items will compensate somewhat for lower pay.
6
There is also the potential to re-purpose malls into manufacturing or office spaces, schools, emergency department headquarters and the like.
Certainly parks would make a great addition to the community.
Certainly parks would make a great addition to the community.
1
The problem that the American workers face is we are now stuck with a President who championed displaced workers, he did so to get votes but really doesn't and never did care about real suffering these men and woman face.
Helping people through this rough transition calls for a President with intelligence and compassion, sadly his whole team lacks any of these qualities.
Helping people through this rough transition calls for a President with intelligence and compassion, sadly his whole team lacks any of these qualities.
12
Trump is the hair of the dog that bit these folks.
2
The POTUS doesn't make law or decide budgets. What we need is a Congress that fulfills its obligations to all of the people. But that has never been the case in divided, racist America.
1
The US Congress has entirely abrogated its responsibility to administer fiscal policy to maintain full employment. Fiscal policy comprises taxation and spending, neither of which fall under the purview of the Federal Reserve Bank, which has only the tools to administer monetary policy, with the objective to maintain stable money value. The "dual mandate", to maintain stable full employment and stable value of money that Congress assigned to the Fed, cannot be achieved by monetary policy alone.
If Congress doesn't use its power to tax and spend the economy up to full employment, nobody else will.
If Congress doesn't use its power to tax and spend the economy up to full employment, nobody else will.
3
Interesting that transportation jobs are listed as a potential alternative position. How many people will be out of work once self-driving vehicles become the norm. Yes, technology does kill jobs. The problem is that the increased efficiency benefits so few.
12
It likely would be effective if most retail store personal actually know their inventory, as is the successful case of my local grocery and chains, like Walgreens - and especially, if AMAZON hired delivery servics personal who can read, in order to leave a package at the correct address, across or down the street and NOT at mine.
This is the nature of progress - millions of people thrown out of work. 120 years ago, nearly everyone worked on a farm. Now all those farm jobs are gone. So it will be with retail. Each new wave of economic progress makes nonsense of all that went before it. And terrible political turmoil accompanies the transition.
People need jobs to do, and they need some confidence that they have a future. When their perceptions about who they are and how they fit into the economy as useful citizens turn into nonsense, they get very upset. Sometimes they look for others to blame. Sometimes they elect a demagogue. Sometimes those demagogues starts big wars to express their sense of grievance. Let's just hope that our current flirtation with demagoguery ends with a whimper, and not a bang. But the problem finding useful ways for people to contribute to society is very real, not a subject to be relegated to demagogues.
People need jobs to do, and they need some confidence that they have a future. When their perceptions about who they are and how they fit into the economy as useful citizens turn into nonsense, they get very upset. Sometimes they look for others to blame. Sometimes they elect a demagogue. Sometimes those demagogues starts big wars to express their sense of grievance. Let's just hope that our current flirtation with demagoguery ends with a whimper, and not a bang. But the problem finding useful ways for people to contribute to society is very real, not a subject to be relegated to demagogues.
15
The rise of online retailing has been abetted by sales tax loopholes that have greatly benefitted pure-play online retailers to the detriment of bricks and mortar legacy stores. While companies such as Amazon have gradually phased in sales tax collections in many states, they still don't collect in all jurisdictions, thus depriving state and local governments of the revenues needed to fund better social safety nets.
3
" they still don't collect in all jurisdictions, thus depriving state and local governments of the revenues needed to fund better social safety nets."
NO, it deprives the government of money that it uses to put more useless, parasitic, self-serving, politically connected bureaucratic vermin on the payroll.
NO, it deprives the government of money that it uses to put more useless, parasitic, self-serving, politically connected bureaucratic vermin on the payroll.
4
This is only the latest disruption in the workforce — and very far from the most dramatic. (That would probably have to be the shift from agricultural work to manufacturing labor.) In the middle of such a massive disruption, it's impossible to predict what will happen next. But the editorial is correct in that that doesn't absolve the government or businesses from easing the transition, wherever it might end up.
2
The capitalist underpinnings of our economy continually push businesses to drive down costs to compete. Since the consumer sector is the largest portion of our economy, then retail jobs and the wage they earn will forever be under pressure to contract. We have the ability to adapt when given the combination of opportunity and necessity. Turn from consumerism to what we're good at. Try higher education - witness the United Nations of students filling our graduate schools and for good reason. America has never stopped being "great" in the advancement of knowledge.
Our problem is at primary and secondary levels our educational system doesn't spark the minds of our kids into the fascination for ideas that will be the path to those graduate schools. Even at undergraduate levels too many universities offer puppy-mill degrees that lead to no job and long term debt.
We need to evolve our economy through our educational system. Our kids need to be more interested in things like how photosynthesis turns sunlight into food and less interested in just getting out of the school building. And don't tell me they can't do science - any 10 year old can surf the internet as well as any PhD I know.
The knowledge base of science expands exponentially, there's plenty of room for anyone who has an interest. We just have to give them a look at the amazing ideas they could explore to spark that interest. We could go from consumers to inventors at a much higher pay scale.
Our problem is at primary and secondary levels our educational system doesn't spark the minds of our kids into the fascination for ideas that will be the path to those graduate schools. Even at undergraduate levels too many universities offer puppy-mill degrees that lead to no job and long term debt.
We need to evolve our economy through our educational system. Our kids need to be more interested in things like how photosynthesis turns sunlight into food and less interested in just getting out of the school building. And don't tell me they can't do science - any 10 year old can surf the internet as well as any PhD I know.
The knowledge base of science expands exponentially, there's plenty of room for anyone who has an interest. We just have to give them a look at the amazing ideas they could explore to spark that interest. We could go from consumers to inventors at a much higher pay scale.
6
We destroyed the trades programs in schools back in the 80s because of "College for All" and increasing fear of liabilities of students around hazards. Every student in this country should be graduating with a basic knowledge of plumbing, electrical, framing and household goods repair along with true financial literacy in assessing buy vs lease, bond vs stock, 401ks, checkbook balancing, etc. let's skip the ap physics and calculus and get back to basics.
1
What do you do about those students who value sports and hip-hop music over education and even beat up those who do value education for "acting white"?
1
We are transitioning from the post-industrial to the Information Age. Labor is no longer the distributional mechanism for the product. It's capital, entrepreneurial risk-taking, technology skills and data that demand shares before labor, so our 20th century labor policies are outdated, yet our political class keeps touting them. The union factory labor force is gone, never to be the force it once was.
1
The business case for online retail is that it employs fewer people. It's a foregone conclusion that it will employ fewer people.
That said, some things you have to try before you buy. I for one need to try on clothes before I buy, and the guarantee that I can return them if I want isn't enough. I won't buy shoes until I've walked in them a bit.
That said, some things you have to try before you buy. I for one need to try on clothes before I buy, and the guarantee that I can return them if I want isn't enough. I won't buy shoes until I've walked in them a bit.
3
Fourty yeas of Reaganism, indifference by both parties to the problems of average people, attention to the big donors, the government is the problem. Anyone surprised?
15
"The government needs to effectively manage inevitable change for the greater good."
"The erosion of minimum wage levels and overtime pay standards, combined with high executive pay, has also suppressed worker pay. The lack of efficient public transportation, child care, fair work schedules and paid sick days virtually guarantee one employment setback after another for workers who are already struggling to get ahead."
As usual, the Times' editorial board has hit on the perfect solution to every problem: even more government regulation. Right on!
"The erosion of minimum wage levels and overtime pay standards, combined with high executive pay, has also suppressed worker pay. The lack of efficient public transportation, child care, fair work schedules and paid sick days virtually guarantee one employment setback after another for workers who are already struggling to get ahead."
As usual, the Times' editorial board has hit on the perfect solution to every problem: even more government regulation. Right on!
Want to REALLY help the bottom 90%????? Medicare for ALL 2020.
Keep it simple, keep it strong.
Keep it simple, keep it strong.
15
NYT EB you should have been raising these issues all through the campaign last year, but you did not. You did everything to cover DJT, every time he coughed, sneezed, or made an egregious remark. HRC was fundraising and living the 1% life, while the voices of working class workers were patently ignored by the party that was supposed to be for them. Obama administration was tone deaf to this as well with the exception of Joe Biden, a man who should have been POTUS, but was effectively pushed out of even considering running.
As for another angle on retail issues, go to any mall these days. See how many women are buying clothes the way they used to. They're not. Today's clothing designs for women are ugly, boxy, and shapeless, material is cheap, and prices do not equate with value.
As for another angle on retail issues, go to any mall these days. See how many women are buying clothes the way they used to. They're not. Today's clothing designs for women are ugly, boxy, and shapeless, material is cheap, and prices do not equate with value.
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them."
Trump has zero interest in helping his down market voters. To Don the Con, they are chumps and marks.
Trump has zero interest in helping his down market voters. To Don the Con, they are chumps and marks.
5
Something rarely discussed about this subject, retail losing to e-commerce, is the "deal". Is there a perceived deal for the consumer or not. For some odd reason shopping online gives the consumer a sense of getting a deal,even when the prices paid are often significantly more then in a brick/mortar shop. Especially when you add on shipping, and even with the "free-shipping" deals that many online sellers provide. Online shoppers feel differently then they would if they'd shopped traditionally.
Online we feel like we're discovering, finding that hidden gem - women especially who love to shop - find "discovering" things online much more satisfying then in a real store. A lot of it has to with how being online triggers endorphins that real shopping does not.
And men,well for those who don't like shopping, or are confused by how to shop (its really confusion that gets males so bumfuzzled) shopping online its a saving grace. Especially when they can look at a whole outfit and buy it. Not so in a store...where you can see a nice combination of clothes on a mannequin, but finding them!? Impossible. "I just need something new for the work party my woman is dragging me to...arggh...!"
And Perception is key to satisfying consumers. If I perceive things went easy, wasn't a waste of my precious time-off, then it gets a higher grade.
Plus online shopping allows us to trick ourselves that we didn't over do it, because the packages might come in separate shipments, etc.
Online we feel like we're discovering, finding that hidden gem - women especially who love to shop - find "discovering" things online much more satisfying then in a real store. A lot of it has to with how being online triggers endorphins that real shopping does not.
And men,well for those who don't like shopping, or are confused by how to shop (its really confusion that gets males so bumfuzzled) shopping online its a saving grace. Especially when they can look at a whole outfit and buy it. Not so in a store...where you can see a nice combination of clothes on a mannequin, but finding them!? Impossible. "I just need something new for the work party my woman is dragging me to...arggh...!"
And Perception is key to satisfying consumers. If I perceive things went easy, wasn't a waste of my precious time-off, then it gets a higher grade.
Plus online shopping allows us to trick ourselves that we didn't over do it, because the packages might come in separate shipments, etc.
1
Trump is not going to help these workers, it is imperative that we the people pull our country out of the flaming nose dive we are in. And this has to happen now if it can happen at all.
High tech is making human existence obsolete.
The thing is that we humans have sold out to convenience at every turn.
High tech is making human existence obsolete.
The thing is that we humans have sold out to convenience at every turn.
5
I'd really like to see the Times look at how the technology revolution compares to the industrial or agricultural revolutions.
And how do we square the low wage jobs phenomenon with undocumented worker surge? Do we now understand why most Americans are not thrilled with undocumented workers taking any jobs that are left in our oligarchy?
3
If the democrats really wanted to help American workers they would support the deportation of all illegal aliens. That would open up several million jobs for American citizens.
4
And housing.
3
The half of the country that supported Trump are still so happy with three months of Muslims, Mexicans and Blacks being terrorized publically, that they barely notice that they are living on shaky ground.
What is a job with a decent minimum wage, health insurance and security compared to watching vulnerable people that you hate and fear being bullied?
What is a job with a decent minimum wage, health insurance and security compared to watching vulnerable people that you hate and fear being bullied?
11
I am sorry but I tried to support my local Pet Supply store but got tired of the glare from the salesgirl when I tried to pay for my items by interrupting her smart phone playing, let alone ask a question and get dismissed by a shrug of the shoulders.
Over at Amazon I can peruse the Best Sellers, read hundreds of reviews before purchasing and then get the lowest price and receive the items in less than two days.
This is the New Better World and there is no stopping it
Over at Amazon I can peruse the Best Sellers, read hundreds of reviews before purchasing and then get the lowest price and receive the items in less than two days.
This is the New Better World and there is no stopping it
8
Trump actually do something to help working class people...best joke I've heard since january!
6
If Amazon, as these articles so often like to point out, are part of the perceived problem then why do so many of us nod our heads when we read this type of article yet continue to purchase from Amazon? There is really only one way to really affect change in America (as we've recently seen this week at Fox News) at that is through economics and our wallets. What we purchase and from whom makes a huge difference and sends clear signals to the almighty market.
36
Trying to stop automation to keep jobs is the Luddite approach, and simply results in stagnation. However, there are lots of jobs not being filled because the private-sector bottom-line business model can't support them. These are non-automatable people-centric jobs that presently fall in the public sector because corporations value profit, not people.
A corporate controlled Congress imposes profit before people!
A corporate controlled Congress imposes profit before people!
3
Amazon has been tone deaf to the #GrabYourWallet campaign, the @slpng_giants campaign as well as ITS OWN EMPLOYEES begging it to stop advertising on Brietbart. You point out exactly the reason why. If we are to be effective in stopping extremism we must make the difficult choices that will bend the arc toward social justice.
i've just spent the last week in Japan with my wife and her family. Traveling around the country, stopping by stores and restaurants one sees what a civilized country feels like. From the public transportation to the simplest store there is nothing but the utmost professionalism and courtesy offered to customers at all times from the youngest workers to those near retirement. The contrast in how people treat one another in my own country is painfully obvious.
121
Yup. Problem is only 25% of Americans have a passport so they will never know how things are done differently or better in other countries. Plus most Americans could never afford to travel overseas in the first place, especially to places like Japan, Norway, Iceland or Bermuda where yes, life IS better.
7
Anecdotal but have to agree, having spent 2 weeks in Switzerland recently. Service generally is far better, roads are smooth, trains clean and on time and food indescribably better in every way.
Why is America number 1 again?
Why is America number 1 again?
6
There is nothing like respect and basic humanity to brighten up a society.
5
Good with ya right up till the last double sentence paragraph;
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them."
I thought Ms. Collins handled the humor end.
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them."
I thought Ms. Collins handled the humor end.
2
Truth hurts.
2
Your editorial is but yet another descriptive lament about what we already know--or, better, numbingly feel. Instead, tell us--clearly, forcefully--about the few who have the disproportionate share of the money and why they have it. Tell us how they got the money and what they do with the money for whose benefit. Tell us why the few have such great interest in themselves and so little vested interest in the well-being and dignity of others. Why is this the status quo? Who is entitled to define what constitutes meaningful work and creates cohesive community and why?
9
Whatever garners money is worth the money it garners. Valuation of everything in terms of $ is a tautology.
One cannot put a $ value on happiness.
One cannot put a $ value on happiness.
How many inner cities under long time Democrat control have watched their retail, manufacturing and middle class base shrink to nothing ? Poverty programs, higher and higher property/income taxes have done next to nothing to remedy their ills, so lets not go down that path. Lee Iacocca said it best 30 years ago, one day we'll be selling each other hamburgers and insurance, even those days look like they're ending.
1
Yeah. Blame the Democrats for 30+ years of Reagan's policies. That's it.
11
Are you suggesting that we eliminate poverty programs? And that will help, how? Are you suggesting that only Democratic areas are experiencing a dearth of living wage jobs? The rich have won and they are doing better than ever. That is plain to see.
4
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them." Hardy har har har! In what universe does the editorial board live? Relief and a remedy will come when we elect a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress and purge our government of callus,. greedy, self dealing fascists, kleptocrats and numbskulls who have nothing but contempt for working people.
10
Let's start reversing the gross income and wealth inequality in this country which is putting way too much money and influence in the hands of too few people. If people had the money, they'd still be going to malls. A few thoughts on this are: stop corporate "free trade." raise marginal tax rates to Eisenhower era levels, strengthen the social safety net, tax all income at the same rates, including unearned income and the stock options favored by CEO's, strengthen and ENFORCE our labor laws, ENFORCE our anti-trust laws, outlaw offshore tax havens where the rich hide their money to avoid taxes, at a certain level, maybe $500,000.00, subject unearned income to a Social Security tax, establish universal healthcare.
13
Those shipping and whales house jobs will be lost to automation in the coming decade. This is great policy advice for about 25 years ago. The game done changed and the workers in this country need leaders who understand that robots are here to replace us.
3
Robots and automation in general will make the profit-before-all-else corporation incapable of employing enough people to maintain a middle class. No matter how skilled, no matter how readily they retrain.
However, much work remains undone and understaffed because it doesn't fit the bottom-line business model. Things like environmental maintenance, infrastructure development, child & elder care, education, rehabilitation, affordable housing... These people oriented jobs are not supported by Congress because our politicians are re-elected by corporate money. That is the force behind the Ryan-McConnell mantra: lower taxes, less regulation, fewer benefits, smaller government.
Corporate control of Congress has to stop!!
However, much work remains undone and understaffed because it doesn't fit the bottom-line business model. Things like environmental maintenance, infrastructure development, child & elder care, education, rehabilitation, affordable housing... These people oriented jobs are not supported by Congress because our politicians are re-elected by corporate money. That is the force behind the Ryan-McConnell mantra: lower taxes, less regulation, fewer benefits, smaller government.
Corporate control of Congress has to stop!!
3
In March there was a total of 77,000 coal miners working in the U.S.
Retail stores laid off 89,000 workers just between November and March.
Has Trump said one word about helping retail workers? I guess coal miners provide a better photo op.
Retail stores laid off 89,000 workers just between November and March.
Has Trump said one word about helping retail workers? I guess coal miners provide a better photo op.
18
This retail example is good model of the bigger issues facing our capitalistic economy.
Years ago business owners such as retailers had personal relationships directly with local banks. New endeavors and the risks and rewards associated were undertaken in tandem. Retailers served the needs of regional customers at a very strategic level. A good salesman in most of the department stores could make a fair living.
During the eighties all that changed when businesses were required to meet the demands of Wall Street. Over time cost cutting and consolidation were required to meet the quarterly profit goals. Salespeople were forced to part time with no benefits, and services to the customer became far more secondary.
Now brick and mortar retailers are competing with on line retailers who are not at the mercy of quarterly profit goals. They are funded by private equity funds, a closed group of mega investors looking for a quick way to make a buck. To date NONE of the big on line retailers make a profit from merchandise sales, so they can afford to sell products below cost and lose money until ...
Well- we are all waiting to see the destruction this chaos will cause given how large the retail sector is now to the US economy.
And where are the great business leaders tasked with figuring out these vexing issues?
I am tired of hearing from advocates lauding the current business trend of "disrupting" businesses instead of building them
Years ago business owners such as retailers had personal relationships directly with local banks. New endeavors and the risks and rewards associated were undertaken in tandem. Retailers served the needs of regional customers at a very strategic level. A good salesman in most of the department stores could make a fair living.
During the eighties all that changed when businesses were required to meet the demands of Wall Street. Over time cost cutting and consolidation were required to meet the quarterly profit goals. Salespeople were forced to part time with no benefits, and services to the customer became far more secondary.
Now brick and mortar retailers are competing with on line retailers who are not at the mercy of quarterly profit goals. They are funded by private equity funds, a closed group of mega investors looking for a quick way to make a buck. To date NONE of the big on line retailers make a profit from merchandise sales, so they can afford to sell products below cost and lose money until ...
Well- we are all waiting to see the destruction this chaos will cause given how large the retail sector is now to the US economy.
And where are the great business leaders tasked with figuring out these vexing issues?
I am tired of hearing from advocates lauding the current business trend of "disrupting" businesses instead of building them
6
To my way of thinking, this whole downhill trajectory of retail shopping started way before Amazon was born.
When all of America's downtowns from big cities to small towns were decimated and replaced by ugly malls usually in low population centers because land was cheaper, that's when it all started. I remember visiting downtown Cleveland in 2001. From 12PM to 1PM, the streets were full of shoppers and at 1, everything shut down as downtown workers went back to work. My little downtown has been devastated since the mid- nineties when the mall was put in and now the mall has lots of empty spaces which are filled and emptied at a fast clip.
When all of America's downtowns from big cities to small towns were decimated and replaced by ugly malls usually in low population centers because land was cheaper, that's when it all started. I remember visiting downtown Cleveland in 2001. From 12PM to 1PM, the streets were full of shoppers and at 1, everything shut down as downtown workers went back to work. My little downtown has been devastated since the mid- nineties when the mall was put in and now the mall has lots of empty spaces which are filled and emptied at a fast clip.
It's almost a little too convenient. Retailers are shutting down shops not only in suburbia, but in cities as well -- and Donald Trump has signed over American's rights to privacy by allowing their online shopping information to be collected without their permission.
On the other hand, service and retail jobs disappearing so quickly, that the wealthy and über-wealthy will be the only ones able to shop.
America. You wanted "change'.
Are we great yet?
On the other hand, service and retail jobs disappearing so quickly, that the wealthy and über-wealthy will be the only ones able to shop.
America. You wanted "change'.
Are we great yet?
9
Thank you for this article! I've worked 20 years for retailers on both sides of the coin. First doing product development and in recent years in retail management. A few thoughts:
- the silence: no Trump tweets about lost retail jobs. Also, I thought for sure, the fashion industry would have been one of Trumps biggest foes - so far I am wrong. Guessing the Nordstrom incident spooked them.
- Most retailers aren't nimble & you need to be nimble to win. This is evident in supply chain replenishment for most specialty retailers. In team building sessions, Danny Meyer's book " Setting the Table" is used often. To use the restaurant reference, many retailers focus too heavily on front of house - store ambiance & customer experience. But if you go to a local restaurant with great wait staff but the food is horrible or they're always out of steak, chances are you're going somewhere else. Retailers need to focus more on "back of house" systems.
- Customer Service: you get what you pay for. The majority of retail store teams are part time. Often times, they are juggling 2 jobs to get by. Turnover affects sales & customer service.
There are still a few retailers who take the time to build true customer relationships & it pays off. We know them by name, they share family events with us & we worry when we don't see them. We've become part of their community.
- the silence: no Trump tweets about lost retail jobs. Also, I thought for sure, the fashion industry would have been one of Trumps biggest foes - so far I am wrong. Guessing the Nordstrom incident spooked them.
- Most retailers aren't nimble & you need to be nimble to win. This is evident in supply chain replenishment for most specialty retailers. In team building sessions, Danny Meyer's book " Setting the Table" is used often. To use the restaurant reference, many retailers focus too heavily on front of house - store ambiance & customer experience. But if you go to a local restaurant with great wait staff but the food is horrible or they're always out of steak, chances are you're going somewhere else. Retailers need to focus more on "back of house" systems.
- Customer Service: you get what you pay for. The majority of retail store teams are part time. Often times, they are juggling 2 jobs to get by. Turnover affects sales & customer service.
There are still a few retailers who take the time to build true customer relationships & it pays off. We know them by name, they share family events with us & we worry when we don't see them. We've become part of their community.
4
This challenge will only get worse. As distribution centers continue to automate, self driving vehicles thrive, and more and more of the supply chain is personal-technology-ized, "replacement" service jobs for displaced retail workers will also begin to shrink.
There are pros and cons to these advancements. I certainly don't have the answers, but it seems to me that there will come a day (very soon), when even the most over qualified 21st century skilled workers and professionals, will have a tough time finding and keeping financially secure work.
How will we redefine purpose in our society? What will we all be doing as it takes less and less people to do the same (or even more) work? I'm suspect that the traditional "free market" system is the solution to these very complex challenges.
There are pros and cons to these advancements. I certainly don't have the answers, but it seems to me that there will come a day (very soon), when even the most over qualified 21st century skilled workers and professionals, will have a tough time finding and keeping financially secure work.
How will we redefine purpose in our society? What will we all be doing as it takes less and less people to do the same (or even more) work? I'm suspect that the traditional "free market" system is the solution to these very complex challenges.
1
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it's his turn to help them."
I assume this is a rhetorical device, as the Editorial Board knows quite well that Trump has no intention of helping these people.
I assume this is a rhetorical device, as the Editorial Board knows quite well that Trump has no intention of helping these people.
4
It's the end of capitalism? On-line retailers are putting more and more stores out of business, doing to bigger cities and stores now what Wal-Mart and suburban shopping malls have done to thousands of small and mid-size cities and stores. Places like New York, Chicago, LA, etc., better stock up on plywood to board up their downtowns? On line is already over 8% of retail, already making it much bigger than Wal-Mart - and unlike Wal Mart, their stuff is easy to find and they have everything. So, once on-line puts everyone else out of business - then what? Former business owners rejoin the "working class" and together we all move to New Jersey and go to work for Amazon?
4
Remember unions? Remember strikes? They're still options.
12
How do you strike a Kmart, a Montgomery Ward, a Sears, when they have nothing to give the workers?
what unions w any strength are left in america
the first thing the rich did was destroy the unions
powerless workers are good workers
5
Sadly, we are trying to fathom economic effects when, in away, comparing apples with oranges. That of inanimate machines with living, breathing flesh and blood humans.
To some extent it has always been that way. The industrial revolution was the beginning of the rise of machines. Still, in those days, up until the computer revolution, and more so computer controlled technology, virtually every machine needed a human operator.
My father owed a mid sized factory through the 30's, 40's and 50's. He had many machines and human operators for each one of them. If new technology came along and the present machine(s) was made obsolete, the obsolete machine was moved to a warehouse, or sold, or, if all else failed, junked. That was the end of that machine. Hopefully it paid for itself and made money while in use. In any event, it cost my father no more. The new machine was installed, the operator learned how to use it, and life in the factory continued as usual, albeit modernized for the times.
Now however, we are developing machines that require no operator, or at best one operator can controlled dozens of machines with a few keystrokes on a computer....those that the algorithm has not foreseen. The old machines went the way of its predecessors from the 1950s. But what of the human flesh and blood operators? They cannot be warehoused to collect dust. They cannot be junked, even though that is exactly what seems to be happening. They are human.
Apples to oranges! Not Humane!
To some extent it has always been that way. The industrial revolution was the beginning of the rise of machines. Still, in those days, up until the computer revolution, and more so computer controlled technology, virtually every machine needed a human operator.
My father owed a mid sized factory through the 30's, 40's and 50's. He had many machines and human operators for each one of them. If new technology came along and the present machine(s) was made obsolete, the obsolete machine was moved to a warehouse, or sold, or, if all else failed, junked. That was the end of that machine. Hopefully it paid for itself and made money while in use. In any event, it cost my father no more. The new machine was installed, the operator learned how to use it, and life in the factory continued as usual, albeit modernized for the times.
Now however, we are developing machines that require no operator, or at best one operator can controlled dozens of machines with a few keystrokes on a computer....those that the algorithm has not foreseen. The old machines went the way of its predecessors from the 1950s. But what of the human flesh and blood operators? They cannot be warehoused to collect dust. They cannot be junked, even though that is exactly what seems to be happening. They are human.
Apples to oranges! Not Humane!
3
The idea that technology will not destroy jobs, but replace existing ones with others is still a question of faith. In retail, both online and "brick and mortar" systems are still existing at the same time. What if brick and mortar stores were to go away entirely? The music and book industries were the first ones to go through this transformation. I seriously doubt that they now employ as many workers as they did when music and book stores were ubiquitous.
5
"blaming technology is misdirected"
Sounds like propaganda to me
Sounds like propaganda to me
4
Greed at the top is killing the golden goose as many have pointed out. If you really want to jump-start the economy put money in the pockets of the least of us because they have to spend it all. The very rich can't begin to spend even a portion to keep the economy going. Instead they invest in wilder and wilder schemes that bankrupt the economy. After all you have to do something with those piles of money! But let's talk about shopping. During the buy-outs of department stores in the 80s, stores began to be run by people who had no idea what consumers wanted, doubling prices and getting rid of service. Shopping in an excellent store is a far more satisfying experience than buying online, getting the wrong size, sending it back, etc. But even the best clothing lines now have their products made in China with inferior materials and poorly tailored. Nothing fits, and one size fits all fits no one. Once there were sizes that fit you and looked well. Many in this generation probably don't remember what quality is. And poorly paid, trained and sparsely located salespeople are the equivalent of the poor products. Stores could compete, but mostly had quit giving servicee before the onslaught of online shopping. Again greed is impoverishing America, literally and in the quality of the basics of life we purchase with that shrinking income..
6
As this article points out, Trump's policy of resurrecting jobs that some new form of technology has rendered obsolete is a road to nowhere. Occupational dislocation is now a fact of life---even my two children, who have very good jobs, freely say to me that these great jobs will be gone in a decade or less. The focus should be on higher wages, on safety net programs, and retraining.
17
You conclude with this:
President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them.
Yes, but do you truly believe he has the vision, creativity, popularity or even genuine desire to help? What he has shown thus far is not encouraging. Assuming he did want to help, what specifically could he do to help?
The editorial is missing a prescription.
President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them.
Yes, but do you truly believe he has the vision, creativity, popularity or even genuine desire to help? What he has shown thus far is not encouraging. Assuming he did want to help, what specifically could he do to help?
The editorial is missing a prescription.
7
Which is where the Dems need to jump in...with the prescriptions. Fill in the blanks that the Repubs either don't care about, or cant figure out.
Trump spoke likeany other politician...lofty ideas. Albeit he did it in pedestrian language; Build a Wall. Destroy regulations. Ideas that are simple to comprehend,even if they are absurd and wasteful. Simple solutions to complex issues. Always a winner with certain demographics.
While HRC had concrete ideas, yet she rarely spoke about the details, but instead referred people to her website. Wrong! Tell us about them, no need to get all wonky, just give us some stuff to chew on, not inferences and catch-phrases that leave us thirsty. "Don't build walls, build bridges!"...is all too metaphorical. Does she mean real bridges because we really need those, or is she being philosophical and cliched...? Plus, I dont want to go to her website to figure it all out.
Trump supporters figured him out, at least his message, right away. Simple, crass, unapologetic. Where HRC was unclear, sorta shifting towards Bernie where she should have stayed resolute but recognizing that flexibility can be messaged.
Trump spoke likeany other politician...lofty ideas. Albeit he did it in pedestrian language; Build a Wall. Destroy regulations. Ideas that are simple to comprehend,even if they are absurd and wasteful. Simple solutions to complex issues. Always a winner with certain demographics.
While HRC had concrete ideas, yet she rarely spoke about the details, but instead referred people to her website. Wrong! Tell us about them, no need to get all wonky, just give us some stuff to chew on, not inferences and catch-phrases that leave us thirsty. "Don't build walls, build bridges!"...is all too metaphorical. Does she mean real bridges because we really need those, or is she being philosophical and cliched...? Plus, I dont want to go to her website to figure it all out.
Trump supporters figured him out, at least his message, right away. Simple, crass, unapologetic. Where HRC was unclear, sorta shifting towards Bernie where she should have stayed resolute but recognizing that flexibility can be messaged.
There is a massive social upheaval on the horizon as the former middle class slips into poverty. No one is addressing this aberration and the current administration is too clueless and ignorant to be able to see and understand the problem. The 1% are fine with theses policies because it puts more money into their pockets. I have seen nothing in the way of job training or support for displaced workers. This is how revolutions occur when things get bad enough and the populace has nothing to lose. Dangerous times indeed.
20
Let them eat cake.
1
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge. "Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again. "And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not." "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge. "Both very busy, sir." "Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."
3
Job loss due to robots, automation, computerized manufacture, expert systems, autonomous vehicles is accelerating. Nevermind the coal miners, where are all those taxi and truck and bus drivers going to find work?
Corporations are reducing costs and increasing the bottom line by dumping people. Their profits aren't going to fix the chaos, but to off-shore tax havens.
Is Congress addressing this expanding problem? Ha ha! The Ryan-McConnell corporate machine is focused on smaller government: less regulation, lower taxes, fewer benefits, more monopoly. In short, corporate profit before people.
Corporations are reducing costs and increasing the bottom line by dumping people. Their profits aren't going to fix the chaos, but to off-shore tax havens.
Is Congress addressing this expanding problem? Ha ha! The Ryan-McConnell corporate machine is focused on smaller government: less regulation, lower taxes, fewer benefits, more monopoly. In short, corporate profit before people.
2
In 1980, I began selling TVs and electronics, at retail. The hours were long; we worked and received base pay for a 45-hour work week. The idea was to earn more on commission than the base pay: base vs. commission. I did so well that sometimes I'd work on my day off for the extra cash.
Eventually, as sales became more competitive, the commission rates began to drop. The firm that I worked for is now known as Circuit City. Or, was.
Eventually, as sales became more competitive, the commission rates began to drop. The firm that I worked for is now known as Circuit City. Or, was.
16
Those "Spiffs" as they were called, were part of the massive cheat that too many retailers were long involved with, as they preyed upon unsuspecting consumers. Where shopper A got their appliance (product) cheaper then B and C, and D got it for less then A, B and C. No one knew what the prices truly were, sales items were nothing but "lost leaders", and the sellers/salespeople saw all shoppers as suckers.
But the manufacturers saw the writing on the walls. They didn't need retailers as much, and they didn't need to keep trying to manipulate salespeople to push buyers towards their higher priced, but "on sale" (lol) items. Those "spiffs" as the commissions were called, were a waste of money. And it created product deserts, where one manufacturer could own a market, with their no better then others, or outright inferior goods. Maytag, GE, etc...were Name Brands, that controlled markets with their less then great machines. Then along came Samsung, LG, etc, who came in with their bells and whistles, for either the same price as the traditional brands, or a little more...but you got a whole lot more.
Plus the "spiffs" were done away with because the manufacturers said by eliminating them, they could lower their prices. Which they didnt do, but the retailers bought in and the commission was gone. Which never should have existed in the first place, as it was a scam! A means to cheat consumers of fair pricing.
But the manufacturers saw the writing on the walls. They didn't need retailers as much, and they didn't need to keep trying to manipulate salespeople to push buyers towards their higher priced, but "on sale" (lol) items. Those "spiffs" as the commissions were called, were a waste of money. And it created product deserts, where one manufacturer could own a market, with their no better then others, or outright inferior goods. Maytag, GE, etc...were Name Brands, that controlled markets with their less then great machines. Then along came Samsung, LG, etc, who came in with their bells and whistles, for either the same price as the traditional brands, or a little more...but you got a whole lot more.
Plus the "spiffs" were done away with because the manufacturers said by eliminating them, they could lower their prices. Which they didnt do, but the retailers bought in and the commission was gone. Which never should have existed in the first place, as it was a scam! A means to cheat consumers of fair pricing.
It's interesting that you mentioned workers losing jobs in retail moving to transportation and warehouses: two professions that are currently in the news due to automation by robots in warehouses and driverless vehicles. This may be be a temporary fix followed by further dislocations. Rather than trying to kill the US rudimentary safety net, government should be looking to the future and developing policies. (But then, they are aligned with the automating companies--not with the human widgets.)
4
Once upon a time we called a world in which man does not have to earn his daily bread by the sweat of his brow Eden. It is only a stunning lack of imagination and creativity that now converts this emerging possibility into a gigantic problem. Have we become so tyrannized by the concept of moral hazard and the neoliberal dictum that "there is no alternative" that we are unable to contemplate any other organized way of doing things? Those who are exploring the concept of a Universal Basic Income offer one far less pessimistic view of human nature and the possibilities for society.
44
Where does the money for this universal basic income come from? That's the key question in my mind.
I am by no means trying to quash the idea. It's just that if those who propose the basic income haven't got a realistic answer to that question, then it will never happen.
I see 2 possible sources:
1. income/earnings/wealth tax
2. government's other revenue streams
1. This is essentially redistribution of income from those who earn considerably more than the basic to those who don't.
2. Government revenues from income on its own assets. Alaska has a "nationalized" oil industry that distributes income to all the citizens of Alaska. I believe Norway does something similar but I'm not certain about that. Saudi Arabia, where I worked for several years, has that. The oil is owned by the government and the income from it goes directly back to the citizens through low cost universal health care, free education, major infrastructure projects, etc.
I am by no means trying to quash the idea. It's just that if those who propose the basic income haven't got a realistic answer to that question, then it will never happen.
I see 2 possible sources:
1. income/earnings/wealth tax
2. government's other revenue streams
1. This is essentially redistribution of income from those who earn considerably more than the basic to those who don't.
2. Government revenues from income on its own assets. Alaska has a "nationalized" oil industry that distributes income to all the citizens of Alaska. I believe Norway does something similar but I'm not certain about that. Saudi Arabia, where I worked for several years, has that. The oil is owned by the government and the income from it goes directly back to the citizens through low cost universal health care, free education, major infrastructure projects, etc.
2
The key question in my mind is what happens when we are able to provide vast quantities of goods and services with even less labor than necessary now? Is it only the minority that are "employed" under our existing definitions who get to receive the benefits of that productivity? Remember that the economic crises of our times are already crises of overproduction. How much sense would it make to the proverbial Man from Mars who dropped down to earth and saw masses of people living in want precisely BECAUSE we are able to produce so much?
1
Multitude of option:
Raise social security threshold
Tax capital gains as ordinary income
A truly progressive taxation system
Repatriate dividend income
Encourage unionization
Raise luxury good and sin taxes
We fail not for lack of ideas but fir failure of will and vision
Raise social security threshold
Tax capital gains as ordinary income
A truly progressive taxation system
Repatriate dividend income
Encourage unionization
Raise luxury good and sin taxes
We fail not for lack of ideas but fir failure of will and vision
2
This is a logical and reasonable presentation and fits my value system. But it is also pie in the sky. To expect this administration to do any thing that will enhance the less privileged and support or grow a middle class is a leap. They are ignoring fundamental survival, like health care, unemployment insurance, etc. why would they automatically change behavior because it's the right thing to do? They are far more focused on giving Steve Munician another tax deduct then insuring education for all.
7
In the Bay Area, fancy private buses take Apple and Google employees from Oakland, Berkeley and San Francisco down to Silicon Valley each day. They use taxpayer-supported bus stops on streets and at BART stations. It would be better if those workers shared the public transportation systems and if those companies used their influence to improve public transportation so that it better serves the public.
13
Automation is just getting started and you have not seen but a small portion of what is to come.
Later this year Tesla will be unveiling a self driving large truck and others are also in development. Truck Driving employs a huge number of Americans and pays fairly well for minimal skill. Those jobs will quickly be going away as trucks can drive as many hours as needed, do not get drowsy, do not need breaks and do not sign a Teamsters card.
In warehouses Automation will be rapidly taking over much of the work and many of the jobs.
In education, online learning is quickly scaling to replace the jobs of teachers and trainers.
In factories Automation has shown itself better able to weld car bodies and paint than humans- expect far more disruption. The lights out factory is not a pipe dream.
In Medicine, machines are closing in on the ability to read an X-ray as well as a Radiologist- one of the most highly trained and paid specialists in Medicine.
In agriculture, the same technology that allows for a driverless car can allow for a driverless tractor.
Because of the cost of labor, almost any job that can be replaced by machines or computers will be.
Later this year Tesla will be unveiling a self driving large truck and others are also in development. Truck Driving employs a huge number of Americans and pays fairly well for minimal skill. Those jobs will quickly be going away as trucks can drive as many hours as needed, do not get drowsy, do not need breaks and do not sign a Teamsters card.
In warehouses Automation will be rapidly taking over much of the work and many of the jobs.
In education, online learning is quickly scaling to replace the jobs of teachers and trainers.
In factories Automation has shown itself better able to weld car bodies and paint than humans- expect far more disruption. The lights out factory is not a pipe dream.
In Medicine, machines are closing in on the ability to read an X-ray as well as a Radiologist- one of the most highly trained and paid specialists in Medicine.
In agriculture, the same technology that allows for a driverless car can allow for a driverless tractor.
Because of the cost of labor, almost any job that can be replaced by machines or computers will be.
5
Of the 10 people I know who voted for Trump, here is the rationale:
Affirmative Action took my space at Harvard
I am an unabashed bigot
I am on disability and Trump will help me
Everything on Fox News is true
Immigrants get automatic benefits; I get nothing
The reasons go on and on, but 8 out of 10 of these people are college graduates! The concept of social justice is for suckers…so they say.
I am so tired of everyone obsessing about unimportant issues and not paying attention to a country that desperately needs good governance, good education and retraining when occupations disappear. A lot of us are working very hard to provide for ourselves---and would be the first to offer our neighbors a hand up.
It's Earth Day!!! Celebrate our country's beauty and protect it. Donald Trump does not own your opinion about climate change or anything else. Get a grip folks!
Affirmative Action took my space at Harvard
I am an unabashed bigot
I am on disability and Trump will help me
Everything on Fox News is true
Immigrants get automatic benefits; I get nothing
The reasons go on and on, but 8 out of 10 of these people are college graduates! The concept of social justice is for suckers…so they say.
I am so tired of everyone obsessing about unimportant issues and not paying attention to a country that desperately needs good governance, good education and retraining when occupations disappear. A lot of us are working very hard to provide for ourselves---and would be the first to offer our neighbors a hand up.
It's Earth Day!!! Celebrate our country's beauty and protect it. Donald Trump does not own your opinion about climate change or anything else. Get a grip folks!
5
Just wait until all the drivers are fired as self-driving cars fully emerge. Driver is the #1 job in American and truck drivers, in particular, are pretty well-paid. These jobs will disappear all at once right as retail and factory jobs go away. There will not be a human-intensive new industry to absorb these folks. Some smaller number of other humans will become more productive by far but, at least temporarily this will be the largest dislocation/disruption in modern times. When it happens we will be scrambling for answers amidst a very chaotic and violent upheaval.
4
Sear's, Penny's, Macy's, everyday seems like another one announces closing with many employees laid off. On the other hand Amazon announced earlier this year that it would hire 100,000 workers within the next two years. Probably won't be the ones laid off, but it will be someone. On line sales are killing retail as we know it.
5
Good riddance to Sears, Penney's and others. Has anyone actually been inside one of these stores lately? It's bad, bad, bad. Zombie apocalyptic. They've died a long, slow death.
3
Fair wages, overtime pay, child care, paid sick days, and all the rest will never be granted without unionization, which the GOP has intentionally been preventing and undoing since at least 1980. Service jobs are mostly done by women and minorities, making it vastly more likley that the GOP will not lift a finger to change anything about this. My only hope is that these workers, and their husbands who have lost higher paying jobs, will vote Democratic in their next elections...local, county, state, and federal.
5
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them."
Lol! thank you NYT for the good laugh i got this morning! Our current President? Help anyone but himself or his family? lol! oh, that is a good one!
If he just stopped spending $3mm every weekend to golf at his private resort and put that into the unemployment fund it would help immensly... but think he'll even do that? Let them eat cake! lol! this plea for DJT to "help" anyone is just too funny!
Lol! thank you NYT for the good laugh i got this morning! Our current President? Help anyone but himself or his family? lol! oh, that is a good one!
If he just stopped spending $3mm every weekend to golf at his private resort and put that into the unemployment fund it would help immensly... but think he'll even do that? Let them eat cake! lol! this plea for DJT to "help" anyone is just too funny!
21
The mall and the culture that goes with it. Good riddANCE.
2
The way the Donald has treated his employees and contractors over thi past decades is a perfect reflection of the treatment workers are treated now across the country keeping them at minimum and sometimes sub minimum wage, short changing contractors and leaving his investers holding the bag when things go south. Predatory capitalism has become the name of the game as the Donald has become a role model for our country. Trump now supports the repeal of regulations that allows his rich patrons to run rough shod over workers. Many forces are conspiring against the decent treatment of workers, technology prime among them, but when you add to these the cruelty of our Trumpian and Republican government to these workers have little chance of getting ahead.
7
Why, why, why does this article not also discuss the outrageous salaries of CEOs? Outrageous is the best I can do, but criminal also comes to mind. For sure unjust.
Oscar Munoz didn't really do any thing that strange if you consider how most CEOs respond, and more so how they run their companies, regardless of bad news. They still get away with multimillion dollar salaries as long as "the stock is okay".
So sad, he won't be chairman. Big deal. He's the one who kept flubbing up and that's the price he pays? If an employee lower in the ladder had done anything even 1/100th that ridiculous they'd be booted. But he still had his gazillion dollar salary. What a joke. Wait till the passenger gets him in court. Let's see if he lives up to his promise to "take full responsibility." Same with the Wells Fargo jokers.
Whatever.
The standard routine at the big house of large company has "leaders" up high, far far away from those who really keep the company afloat, working their fannies off, always getting benefits and work cut FIRST, and so on. These giant mega corporations would be in the dustbin without the lowest paid workers and yet this continues.
Whatever happened to decency? Oh, I forgot, this is the USA where money trumps and hurts regular folks all the time. Whatever.
Oscar Munoz didn't really do any thing that strange if you consider how most CEOs respond, and more so how they run their companies, regardless of bad news. They still get away with multimillion dollar salaries as long as "the stock is okay".
So sad, he won't be chairman. Big deal. He's the one who kept flubbing up and that's the price he pays? If an employee lower in the ladder had done anything even 1/100th that ridiculous they'd be booted. But he still had his gazillion dollar salary. What a joke. Wait till the passenger gets him in court. Let's see if he lives up to his promise to "take full responsibility." Same with the Wells Fargo jokers.
Whatever.
The standard routine at the big house of large company has "leaders" up high, far far away from those who really keep the company afloat, working their fannies off, always getting benefits and work cut FIRST, and so on. These giant mega corporations would be in the dustbin without the lowest paid workers and yet this continues.
Whatever happened to decency? Oh, I forgot, this is the USA where money trumps and hurts regular folks all the time. Whatever.
14
Online offers convenience but it does not offer an experience. High end malls do well because high end retail trains their employees to make the customer feel as valuable as the merchandise they selling. It creates a moment, a memory which very important for the millennial with buying power.
Also box stores are the anti-thesis of said millennial. They want locally owned small town economy with walkable areas and many businesses, not just Wal-Mart.
Problem is we have been rewarding places like Costco, Best Buy, etc in tax laws for decades while squeezing local retail business owners to death that closes down stores and creates a disincentive to future business owners. Now these big stores are dying too because Costco is no different than a real world model of shopping on the internet. Wander about. Get your stuff. Minimal help. Stand in line. No experience and more time consuming hence the pull for the internet.
Also box stores are the anti-thesis of said millennial. They want locally owned small town economy with walkable areas and many businesses, not just Wal-Mart.
Problem is we have been rewarding places like Costco, Best Buy, etc in tax laws for decades while squeezing local retail business owners to death that closes down stores and creates a disincentive to future business owners. Now these big stores are dying too because Costco is no different than a real world model of shopping on the internet. Wander about. Get your stuff. Minimal help. Stand in line. No experience and more time consuming hence the pull for the internet.
3
A massive understatement srarts this article:
"newly created jobs are not necessarily perfect substitutes for lost jobs."
Later on, some of the truth comes out:
"Service workers are poorly paid and have few benefits because of intentional policy decisions, not impersonal forces. Unless those policies are changed, such jobs will never restore and support a middle class."
Of course, a more accurate statement is that as the private sector adopts automation, autonomous vehicles, computer assisted manufacture, drone delivery, on-line shopping, expert systems like IBM's Watson, the private bottom-line business model will never be able to float the middle class. No matter how skilled they become, no matter how often they retrain themselves.
Meanwhile there are many jobs left unfilled because they don't fit the profit-before-all-else corporate model. These are people-oriented jobs presently understaffed and underpaid because corporations dominate Congress with their mantra of "less regulation, lower taxes, fewer benefits, smaller government" aimed at increasing profits sent to overseas tax havens.
"newly created jobs are not necessarily perfect substitutes for lost jobs."
Later on, some of the truth comes out:
"Service workers are poorly paid and have few benefits because of intentional policy decisions, not impersonal forces. Unless those policies are changed, such jobs will never restore and support a middle class."
Of course, a more accurate statement is that as the private sector adopts automation, autonomous vehicles, computer assisted manufacture, drone delivery, on-line shopping, expert systems like IBM's Watson, the private bottom-line business model will never be able to float the middle class. No matter how skilled they become, no matter how often they retrain themselves.
Meanwhile there are many jobs left unfilled because they don't fit the profit-before-all-else corporate model. These are people-oriented jobs presently understaffed and underpaid because corporations dominate Congress with their mantra of "less regulation, lower taxes, fewer benefits, smaller government" aimed at increasing profits sent to overseas tax havens.
6
We were taught new and powerful lessons from United Airline and Fox's recent bowing to consumer pressure. Now we must apply this unexpected gift to all businesses and persons motivated by raw greed. We must keep shining the light!
3
The article mentions that the loss of retail jobs has created warehouse jobs. There is a distribution center for the largest online retailer in our area. It is known as a place you don't want to work unless absolutely necessary. One person I knew told how they had a schedules break, but only the time allotted. Period. Because of the vastness of the warehouse, and the location of the break room, the time required to get there and get back made the break a moot point. All on a concrete floor. Hard on the joints. Add in the lifting and warehouse atmosphere and it is not too pleasant.
Compare that to working in a mall retail store and the differences are stark.
Compare that to working in a mall retail store and the differences are stark.
60
Thinking people are not wanted for these jobs. I lasted all of two weeks in an Avon Products distribution center.
9
My friend, who has a highly coveted and rare position at a fast food location as he works the same hours M- F for a solid 32 hours per week, told me to pray for him and his co-workers to stay safe.
The owner, to increase her own profits, had never shut down the kitchen for a deep cleaning nor paid for proper maintenance of the fryers. She refused to listen to workers' concerns that a stray spark or surge of electricity could run through the grease-encased, wire-exposed fryer cords and blow everyone up in a grease fireball. This went on for years. Only when a tech from the fryer company, who did a short visit and left the location quickly, had an exec at his workplace call the fastfood headquarters and talk to an exec was something finally done, and the fryers replaced.
Remember:
Any company that dismisses their workers' rights to health and safety will do the same to their customers and clients.
The owner, to increase her own profits, had never shut down the kitchen for a deep cleaning nor paid for proper maintenance of the fryers. She refused to listen to workers' concerns that a stray spark or surge of electricity could run through the grease-encased, wire-exposed fryer cords and blow everyone up in a grease fireball. This went on for years. Only when a tech from the fryer company, who did a short visit and left the location quickly, had an exec at his workplace call the fastfood headquarters and talk to an exec was something finally done, and the fryers replaced.
Remember:
Any company that dismisses their workers' rights to health and safety will do the same to their customers and clients.
1
Those suggesting education as a fix are sorely mistaken. Doesn't matter what you teach most people, they still will not be mentally capable of competing. Maybe you could take the percentage of useful minds from 20% to 40% but the reality is that they mostly won't be useful in emerging fields. As an artificial intelligence entrepreneur, I find that ~the top 40% of Harvard/MIT/Stanford students are smart enough to be of use in my company (at any level). ~30% of other top tier college students are hireable. ~1% of those who went to coding boot camps or community college are capable.
Keys to success in my experience = very high IQ, curiosity, world travel, multi-lingual, computer science skills that run deep (not just a few classes), entrepreneurial drive.
We just can't expect people to hit these requirements at scale so we ought to provide some guaranteed livelihood to all.
Keys to success in my experience = very high IQ, curiosity, world travel, multi-lingual, computer science skills that run deep (not just a few classes), entrepreneurial drive.
We just can't expect people to hit these requirements at scale so we ought to provide some guaranteed livelihood to all.
3
Evidently one must be numb to the destructive side of creation too.
The special skills needed to succeed in the AI field are not widely appropriate. Nonetheless, even from a much wider standpoint, the private bottom-line profit-first business model cannot employ enough people to maintain a middle class. It can't make the kind of money using people that it makes from automated manufacture, distribution, and even medical diagnosis.
However, people-oriented work is available, just not valued nor paid for because corporations can't make money from such non-automatable work. And corporations insist that Congress ignore government by and for the PEOPLE, and focus upon the bottom line.
However, people-oriented work is available, just not valued nor paid for because corporations can't make money from such non-automatable work. And corporations insist that Congress ignore government by and for the PEOPLE, and focus upon the bottom line.
3
Artificial emotion has yet to be invented. Emotion motivates human intelligence.
1
Retail is also failing because people are wearing more casual, inexpensive clothes. Suit and tie has been replaced by t-shirt and jeans; dresses by yoga pants. Sneakers used to be for gym only, now they are ubiquitous. There was a time when an American going to work wore clothes that would cost $1000 today, but most Americans are outfitted for under $150.
Online is hurting stores, but casual dress is killing them.
An additional problem, teens used to buy the latest fashion, now they buy the latest phone.
Online is hurting stores, but casual dress is killing them.
An additional problem, teens used to buy the latest fashion, now they buy the latest phone.
12
While the newspapers droned on about those horrible racist whites, the rich took over the country. Surprise!
4
So the problem is income disparity and lack of safety net as workers are displaced to seek new employment in a changing economy. And voters looking to Republucans to fix that? Next we'll want the fox to deliver first aid to the hens while raiding the henhouse.
7
It's easy to see why a blue-collar worker or unemployed person would want to reach for an opioid or painkiller on reading this important editorial or facing the grim reality it euphemistically portrays.
While Japan and many European nations moderate executive pay and cultivate a culture in which employers feel an obligation to their workers, Americans face a bleak future shaped by the greed of unfettered commercial interests.
And the editorial doesn't mention the growing size of corporations that can disregard with impunity the interests of their low-ranking employees and can successfully lobby against regulation. I haven't heard anyone say Amazon is a great place to work.
While Japan and many European nations moderate executive pay and cultivate a culture in which employers feel an obligation to their workers, Americans face a bleak future shaped by the greed of unfettered commercial interests.
And the editorial doesn't mention the growing size of corporations that can disregard with impunity the interests of their low-ranking employees and can successfully lobby against regulation. I haven't heard anyone say Amazon is a great place to work.
9
Anne, Other nations do not only moderate executive pay, they also have union representatives sitting on the Board of Directors of medium and large sized companies.
On these shores the word 'union' is treated like a four letter word by the right.
On these shores the word 'union' is treated like a four letter word by the right.
3
In 1791. good old Tom Paineproposee a job guarantee program. The federal gov would become the employer of last resort. It would guarantee a decent job or paid training for such a job to everyone able to work.
There are plenty of things that need to be done--fixing roads & bridges, education, research etc. BTW there are plenty of support jobs in education and research that do not require a degree. As with unemployment benefits today, you could require each worker to show that he had applied for a comparable private sector job periodically.
How would we pay for it?
A) It would to a certain extent pay for itself.
1. When people are working, producing, & spending, they pay more taxes than when they are out of work. The money they spend provides jobs for others who also spend & pay taxes.
2. We could reduce much of what we currently spend on welfare.
3. It would raise private sector wages and thus taxes.
B) We could raise income tax rates on the Rich as we did during the Great Prosperity of 1946 - 1973. This would not only raise revenue, it would reduce inequality and financial speculation, both of which are bad for the economy.
C) We could sell Treasury bonds both to the public locking in low interest and to the FED which returns the interest.Since we would be producing more, there would be little inflation.
See http://www.levyinstitute.org/topics/job-guarantee
There are plenty of things that need to be done--fixing roads & bridges, education, research etc. BTW there are plenty of support jobs in education and research that do not require a degree. As with unemployment benefits today, you could require each worker to show that he had applied for a comparable private sector job periodically.
How would we pay for it?
A) It would to a certain extent pay for itself.
1. When people are working, producing, & spending, they pay more taxes than when they are out of work. The money they spend provides jobs for others who also spend & pay taxes.
2. We could reduce much of what we currently spend on welfare.
3. It would raise private sector wages and thus taxes.
B) We could raise income tax rates on the Rich as we did during the Great Prosperity of 1946 - 1973. This would not only raise revenue, it would reduce inequality and financial speculation, both of which are bad for the economy.
C) We could sell Treasury bonds both to the public locking in low interest and to the FED which returns the interest.Since we would be producing more, there would be little inflation.
See http://www.levyinstitute.org/topics/job-guarantee
50
Government evolved to tax and spend technologically-advancing economies up to full employment.
@ LenCharlap
Guaranteed jobs are a very good idea. Guaranteed jobs with government are a very bad idea. It would be far better for the nonprofit sectors to expand with transitional jobs as the business sectors decline and vice versa. A transitional job could be entry level or professional, full or part time. The only necessary feature is that the compensation would be somewhat less that comparable skills in the business sector. Of course, transitional jobs should also complement the work of the nonprofit.
Funding can be provided by restricting the charitable tax deduction to nonprofits that agree to provide transitional jobs, savings in unemployment insurance and similar welfare payments; and by taxing the endowments of nonprofits that refuse to provide transitional jobs.
Transitional jobs could help business recover by providing a wide variety of skilled and proven workers. The guarantee of a job also helps families stay together and thrive.
Guaranteed jobs are a very good idea. Guaranteed jobs with government are a very bad idea. It would be far better for the nonprofit sectors to expand with transitional jobs as the business sectors decline and vice versa. A transitional job could be entry level or professional, full or part time. The only necessary feature is that the compensation would be somewhat less that comparable skills in the business sector. Of course, transitional jobs should also complement the work of the nonprofit.
Funding can be provided by restricting the charitable tax deduction to nonprofits that agree to provide transitional jobs, savings in unemployment insurance and similar welfare payments; and by taxing the endowments of nonprofits that refuse to provide transitional jobs.
Transitional jobs could help business recover by providing a wide variety of skilled and proven workers. The guarantee of a job also helps families stay together and thrive.
2
If Trump restores the power of the unions, approves a $15/hour minimum wage with overtime pay standards, builds an efficient public transportation network, provides child care, fair work schedules and paid sick days for workers, along with retraining and a social safety net for those out of work, he would be one of the most popular presidents in history. But he is doing just the opposite. His Republican advisers are against unions, a minimum wage, better working conditions and government assistance to the poor. All they want is deregulation and tax cuts for the 1% -- and the lobbyists and Goldman Sachs billionaires Trump has surrounded himself with have no concern whatever for the 99%.
6
The $15 minimum wage is a big reason why stores are closing. Higher prices means stores are less able to compete with online, particularly because you have to pay the higher wage no matter how much stuff you sell.
2
Stores are closing because they cannot compete with internet shopping, for good reason. When I go to a store these days to buy something the sales assistant usually tells me "we don't stock it any more but I can order it for you online." Since I can order it myself online, why use a middleman? Recently my garbage disposal quit working. Home Depot was charging $150 for the same model. But Insinkerator offered a 50% discount if I bought it at their online store and provided them with the serial number of the broken one. So it cost me $75.
4
I will contend that part of retail's problem is the retail shopping experience.
It often is not very good, leaving one to go with the sure shot of on line ordering.
On line, you know it is there, you know the cost, you know they have the size and you know the day it will be delivered to your front door. You can see spec info and read buyer comments or FAQs if questions. No non-knowledgeable sales clerks.
And there are no games like, if you sign up for our credit card, or purchase this today or pressure to get the extended warranty.
Now I may sound like an on line shopper, but I am not for exactly the reason behind this article. Local stores are important for employment and their tax base. So I choose to spend my money locally.
But honestly, the internal practices of Sears, Best Buy, Macy's makes it incredibly difficult. I will spare the reader the recent pain in buying a new washer/dryer at Sears.
At a seminar, I recently heard the former executive of a major grocery retailer discussing how they fended off Walmart and turned their operation around. Among other things they said they did everything they could to help their customers buy the products they want to buy.
This meant if a customer came into the store to purchase CocaCola, they did not give them a paid coupon for Pepsi, they gave them a store coupon for CocaCola simply because that is what they really want to buy and use.
A simple lesson for success that can keep retailers strong and local.
It often is not very good, leaving one to go with the sure shot of on line ordering.
On line, you know it is there, you know the cost, you know they have the size and you know the day it will be delivered to your front door. You can see spec info and read buyer comments or FAQs if questions. No non-knowledgeable sales clerks.
And there are no games like, if you sign up for our credit card, or purchase this today or pressure to get the extended warranty.
Now I may sound like an on line shopper, but I am not for exactly the reason behind this article. Local stores are important for employment and their tax base. So I choose to spend my money locally.
But honestly, the internal practices of Sears, Best Buy, Macy's makes it incredibly difficult. I will spare the reader the recent pain in buying a new washer/dryer at Sears.
At a seminar, I recently heard the former executive of a major grocery retailer discussing how they fended off Walmart and turned their operation around. Among other things they said they did everything they could to help their customers buy the products they want to buy.
This meant if a customer came into the store to purchase CocaCola, they did not give them a paid coupon for Pepsi, they gave them a store coupon for CocaCola simply because that is what they really want to buy and use.
A simple lesson for success that can keep retailers strong and local.
42
Manufacturing jobs, retail jobs, what about back office jobs? Not the sales people at the failing stores, but the support people behind the scenes, and not only at retail companies, but finance, insurance, investment, academic, medical, etc. I worked for a major insurance company for over 30 years, and saw the episodes of shrinkage and expansion with the rise of technology replacing manual level jobs by the efforts of scores of systems people who in turn were let go when their systems were installed. Besides the shrinking number of pure back office jobs, I would think that the same thing could be happening in the systems sector as well, as the need for new systems is declining, leaving only the maintenance of them. What's left? Could teaching be affected? Armed forces? What would be left might only sports, entertainment and politics!
34
Unions "...have not been much of a force in the service sector, partly because laws and regulations have made union organizing difficult."
Now since Trump is hell bent to roll back unnecessary regulations, you don't suppose he'll axe anti-union laws and regulations as well?
Oh come on. Don't be stupid. That ain't gonna happen.
Now since Trump is hell bent to roll back unnecessary regulations, you don't suppose he'll axe anti-union laws and regulations as well?
Oh come on. Don't be stupid. That ain't gonna happen.
3
As grim as your editorial is, it still paints a rosier picture than the reality. "Pervasive yet overblown fear?" What about the fear is "overblown?" Technology advances much faster than our ability to cope with it. What happens when the warehouse and driving jobs are done by robots - within the next 3-5 years? What's next for the displaced workers?
We should have been preparing for the impending disaster 40 years ago when technologist and politicians knew it was coming. But, like climate change, we ignored it preferring to focus on short terms profits and promises. And like climate change, job loss will threaten life as we know it. I strongly suggest the Times and their fellow centrists make up for lost time by sounding the alarm.
We should have been preparing for the impending disaster 40 years ago when technologist and politicians knew it was coming. But, like climate change, we ignored it preferring to focus on short terms profits and promises. And like climate change, job loss will threaten life as we know it. I strongly suggest the Times and their fellow centrists make up for lost time by sounding the alarm.
10
Someone in our photo club posted a photograph that had several items such as a stereo with turn tables, radio, cameras and lenses, maps, records, tapes, a chess board, envelopes, boodks, deck of cards, etc., and in front of all these things was placed an iPhone. The point of the photograph was to show all the things that had disappeared that we used to purchase because of technology. Add to that picture the shopping mall. It is inevitable that with so many things being placed on our smart phones, computers, and tablets that there are fewer and fewer bricks and mortar things to purchase. Moreover, the companies that produce tablets, smartphones, and the apps that go with them employ far fewer people than the manufacturing plants of old. Soon to arrive will be driverless trucks, taxis, and buses. How many more jobs will be lost when that happens? We are in a new world with a mindset from the old work. Worth is still tied to work and work is related directly to income but the world is taking those connections away. What happens then?
81
When most or all shopping is done online, along with bill paying, airplane/hotel resos and EDUCATION, perhaps our federal gov't will finally get around to classifying the internet as a utility. And wouldn't it be 'nice' if it was open up to other ISPs rather than the monopolistic garbage we have now?
If we don't provide high speed internet to ALL of our citizens very soon, our nation will be left in the dust by the rest of the world.
We must regain control of the internet, it is ours and belongs to us.
It's a powerful tool and resource for endless purposes.
If we don't provide high speed internet to ALL of our citizens very soon, our nation will be left in the dust by the rest of the world.
We must regain control of the internet, it is ours and belongs to us.
It's a powerful tool and resource for endless purposes.
12
"The market will decide." Old story. Not sure what the authors here are thinking. History.
1
Adopting the Swedish model could help.
Sweden exports, per capita, about 30% more arms and weapons than the US. (40.2 million USD versus 31.7, respectively, for 2014)
That would represent over $10 billion a year in new business whose profits could go directly, via a 100% tax towards helping the downtrodden in this country. That would purchase a lot of day-care.
I say go for it!
Sweden exports, per capita, about 30% more arms and weapons than the US. (40.2 million USD versus 31.7, respectively, for 2014)
That would represent over $10 billion a year in new business whose profits could go directly, via a 100% tax towards helping the downtrodden in this country. That would purchase a lot of day-care.
I say go for it!
1
Our globalized economy, digital revolution and revolutionary technology have, combined, changed much faster than we humans can absorb, let alone made good use of, for dignified employment, and living wages. For that, government's function is to try to serve all of us, and each unique individual needs, as best as possible. After all, that is what politics is all about. But 'politicking', our currency under our 'ignoramus-in-chief, will not solve the urgent issues of the day. Crooked lying Trump is ruthless and cruel, unscrupulous and vain, a 'proud' narcissist who could care less for those 'he used' to reach the presidency. He has only one interest, himself.
2
Even if wages were similar, retail was never an adequate replacement for factory jobs. Surviving retail requires a certain set of skills. Not everyone has them. I imagine many people don't even want them. A shift to warehouse jobs might actually make retail more appealing to some individuals. You can wear whatever you want and you'll never have to interact with a customer. To quote Randal Graves: This job would be great if it wasn't for the [expletive] customers. Not to say warehousing is all fun. Try pulling a 20 hour day in a dirty, unheated, concrete box conveniently located in the middle of nowhere next Christmas. 'Tis the season.
So what's the answer? We all know Donald Trump is not the individual to look to for ideas on this subject. The man is like an evil Scrooge McDuck without the cunning. He's less popular too. Even without our current leadership though, I'm not sure there exists a policy solution to the structural shift in our nation's economy. Effective change would require a massive social reorientation. Needless to say, that change seems unlikely in the foreseeable future. We can barely pass a budget at the moment. I suspect the inevitable outcome is more inaction. The wage labor might get thrown a bone before election day but I think most workers are hung out to dry.
So what's the answer? We all know Donald Trump is not the individual to look to for ideas on this subject. The man is like an evil Scrooge McDuck without the cunning. He's less popular too. Even without our current leadership though, I'm not sure there exists a policy solution to the structural shift in our nation's economy. Effective change would require a massive social reorientation. Needless to say, that change seems unlikely in the foreseeable future. We can barely pass a budget at the moment. I suspect the inevitable outcome is more inaction. The wage labor might get thrown a bone before election day but I think most workers are hung out to dry.
2
My favorite retail outlets are Costco and Nordstrom. Costco and Nordstrom pay higher wages and offer great benefits resulting in lower turnover and high-level customer service. They also both have seamless integration of online and in-store shopping to manage inventories and increase availability of items. I look forward to going in their stores, but know if an item is not available, I can order it online and have it delivered. Their loyalty to their employees is directly related to my loyalty as a customer.
161
The Times mounts weak evidence for its claim that the fear of technological displacement is overblown. That roughly the same number of people who lost jobs in the past year in retailing secured jobs in transportation and warehousing doesn't reveal whether the new jobs pay as well as the old ones or have similar benefits. If the retail jobs were in sales, which require social skills and knowledge of the stock, they probably paid better than repetitive, manual work in a warehouse.
Years ago, labor scholar, Harry Braverman, wrote about the "deskilling" of work under capitalism. Technological advances have accelerated the process.
Years ago, labor scholar, Harry Braverman, wrote about the "deskilling" of work under capitalism. Technological advances have accelerated the process.
3
if anti trust laws were enforced we would not have all these big box stores and chain coffee shops and eateries;instead we would have thousands of mom&pop stores thought the nation with a healthy MIDDLE CLASS population and low unemployment.{jobs are not limited to FACTORY jobs}.
Nonsense. Consumers have plenty of influence. They have chosen cheaper & bigger inventory over folksy local for decades. Just as with airfares. They say they want service but opt for rock-bottom bargain tickets every time.
4
All work is valuable. All decent work, that which does not injure or take away from others, provides a sense of purpose in life tied not just to survival, but, it is hoped, to living a better, more full life.
The powerful refuse to pay for the services they get from those who have not managed to gather wealth and power to themselves. How much different is the wage structure from a benign form of slave/master relationship? Indeed, if a job does not pay enough to provide the essentials of living, it becomes a form of slavery.
Personally, I feel at least a mild form of shame when people do things on my behalf, like fixing a meal, bringing it to a table or cleaning a hotel room and aren't rewarded decently for their efforts. I know it isn't right and my random efforts at overtipping or leaving a bit of cash behind don't solve the problem. I don't do it for an inflated personal sense of morality. I do it for the person performing the service and as an acknowledgement of the fact that I know the system is wrong.
A balanced economy rewards everyone who performs work, not just those who sit king like atop an economic structure manipulated carefully to reward the powerful. Until we understand and change the massive current imbalance, we are just dancing around the issue and then looking the other way when facts interfere with our comfort.
The powerful refuse to pay for the services they get from those who have not managed to gather wealth and power to themselves. How much different is the wage structure from a benign form of slave/master relationship? Indeed, if a job does not pay enough to provide the essentials of living, it becomes a form of slavery.
Personally, I feel at least a mild form of shame when people do things on my behalf, like fixing a meal, bringing it to a table or cleaning a hotel room and aren't rewarded decently for their efforts. I know it isn't right and my random efforts at overtipping or leaving a bit of cash behind don't solve the problem. I don't do it for an inflated personal sense of morality. I do it for the person performing the service and as an acknowledgement of the fact that I know the system is wrong.
A balanced economy rewards everyone who performs work, not just those who sit king like atop an economic structure manipulated carefully to reward the powerful. Until we understand and change the massive current imbalance, we are just dancing around the issue and then looking the other way when facts interfere with our comfort.
9
When you speak of jobs lost and jobs gained it is important to realize that we are no longer a job mobile society, if we ever were, when you think of workers moving about for low wage jobs. How do they move? Most people/familys don't have 500 dollars for the next disaster. We need a wealth tax and then a return to much higher taxes for those making more than 250,000 a year. In addition we will need to have a tax, call it income or productivity, on everything, goods and services produced by robots, algorithms, and Artificial intelligence. And with out question our nation needs a Universal Income.. But we are America, and we will spend on wars, and bunting and slogans and do nothing as our economy, for the people and our nation, for the people, continues to decline as we spread our freedom slogans and our up by the bootstraps myths.
6
A nation "under God" lives for the next life, not this one.
3
Definitely a tax on robots, I think Bill Gates suggested this.
2
This is a critical issue. I agree that there is little evidence that there will be a jobless future based on historical precedents. In the past new tech has, in general, been a net positive for the job market even though there are many individual winners and losers. Buggy whip factory workers had little trouble becoming drivers. Still, I fear that history may not be a good guide because, as someone who builds AI, I can say that we are making machines that, in many respects are smarter and more creative at all but highly complex tasks than humans. Basically, in the medium term, only people with highly creative minds will have much use. All perfunctory work in any field will be useless. Driver, nope. Clerk, useless. Low-level lawyer, get lost. Accountant, please-- you won't beat my AI crunching data.
We need to be thinking about 1) universal basic income (to replace all welfare) and 2) free healthcare for all in order to avoid a potentially vital upheaval when all of these menial jobs disappear in the span of five years.
We need to be thinking about 1) universal basic income (to replace all welfare) and 2) free healthcare for all in order to avoid a potentially vital upheaval when all of these menial jobs disappear in the span of five years.
11
Creation obviously entails a great deal of destruction.
Let us remember that retail automation began with vending machines, selling cigarettes, drinks, and candy! It has been an amazing line of progress from there do pizza delivery and Amazon. It has made lives better.
As for jobs, blame Washington, political corruption and crony capitalism and the monster machine on Wall Street, which also lost its retail end with online trading. However, no need to shade tears for them - they just cut the jobs too.
The only answer is honest politicians, and educated voters. An impossible combination. Sad!
As for jobs, blame Washington, political corruption and crony capitalism and the monster machine on Wall Street, which also lost its retail end with online trading. However, no need to shade tears for them - they just cut the jobs too.
The only answer is honest politicians, and educated voters. An impossible combination. Sad!
3
The internet automates shopping. One can use it to find all available forms of whatever one wants.
1
As an Afro-American, I buy everything online these days.
Shipping is quick & I can often escape state sales taxes.
But the greatest satisfaction is not having to deal with the kind of deplorable that hold clerk & sales jobs, mostly Trump loving hate-mongers!
Amazon was 99% for Hillary!
Shipping is quick & I can often escape state sales taxes.
But the greatest satisfaction is not having to deal with the kind of deplorable that hold clerk & sales jobs, mostly Trump loving hate-mongers!
Amazon was 99% for Hillary!
7
Once upon a time, when I parked my car in a parking garage, I would take a ticket when I entered the garage and when I left, there was a human being to take my ticket and calculate the charge at the exit. Sometimes said human was pleasant, sometimes not, but mostly we had polite exchanges about the weather or traffic or something. In my town, the parking attendants were almost always recent immigrants and over the years one could mark where the immigration waves were coming from -- Vietnam, Sudan, Congo, Syria. Now though, I have to remember to take my ticket with me, to engage with a machine on my way out, and there are no humans around at all. When I get to the exit, there is another machine to take the ticket. If (as happened recently) the machine malfunctions, you have to wait till someone wanders along to help.
What a loss in terms of daily friendly contact with other people!
What a loss in terms of daily friendly contact with other people!
1
Feel free to finance, build and operate a parking garage with human employees. There's no law against it.
It's easy to lament about others' business decisions, isn't it?
It's easy to lament about others' business decisions, isn't it?
3
Only lamenting in the sense that the decision to use only machines to staff many large and busy parking garages has resulted in the elimination of many entry-level jobs that could be filled by people without working experience, or with poor skills. But I suppose those people are part of the group that should just go away and not trouble the well-off with their needs.
1
If these job trends continue, and there's no reason to think they won't, doesn't it make sense that to "effectively manage inevitable change" (as the editorial puts it, should not Congress and the White House be advocating a single payer health insurance system?
This would be an especially wise plan given the determination of the Trump Administration and Congress to gut Obamacare. Such a move would directly and negatively affect just the people working in retail who have or will lose their jobs. How will such individuals cope with sudden illness, long term care, accidents? Underfunded high risk pools? ER compassion? Early, unnecessary death?
Yes, time for grown-ups to begin managing the nation, not hapless narcissists and extreme, feckless, clueless representatives.
This would be an especially wise plan given the determination of the Trump Administration and Congress to gut Obamacare. Such a move would directly and negatively affect just the people working in retail who have or will lose their jobs. How will such individuals cope with sudden illness, long term care, accidents? Underfunded high risk pools? ER compassion? Early, unnecessary death?
Yes, time for grown-ups to begin managing the nation, not hapless narcissists and extreme, feckless, clueless representatives.
3
If the nation can survive this administration, of which there is no guarantee, we are inevitably headed for national healthcare, and as Montreal Moe says of Canada, we are likewise going to have to implement some type of guaranteed income. Otherwise, the future will be one of increasing social upheaval. The choice is clear.
3
How quaint, the thought of elected officials actually thinking about public policy.
2
The Atlantic magazine recently published an interesting article about how online retailers have been data mining customer behavior to extract as much profit as possible from online customers. No longer do online shoppers see one low price for all customers at all times of the day or month, or region. The online retailers fluctuate the price for any number of reasons including time of day, or even demographics based on browsing history. So the price I see and pay for may not be the price you see and pay for. As online shoppers begin to realize this, I suspect that online shopping may lose some of its appeal.
2
To reverse the erosion of pay and benefits that has accompanied the growth of "service" jobs will require active federal intervention. Business and corporate boards, soulless in their quest for profit above all, will not step forward. The chances of which, with Republicans in firm control of all three branches of government, are exactly zero.
1
Bob Dylan was right in 1960's and even more correct close to 60 years later "you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone; the times are a'changin" Time to learn new skills
1
It is obvious that the best way to help dislocated and unemployed working families is to raise the minimum wage, improve unemployment compensation benefits, adopt a Medicare for everyone single payer health insurance model and support State community colleges and universities in efforts to provide "free education" for our children and retraining for their unemployed parents . This should be the Democrat's platform for the 2018 election. If they stick to their guns they can take back Congress and move the country forward.
4
Unless we as a society are willing to provide "a hand up" to those falling into poverty as their already low-wage jobs disappear, we will continue to face the social unrest that has given rise to right-wing, "blame the immigrant" demagogues like Donald Trump here and Marine Le Pen in France. The essential element in technological dislocation is not just unemployment insurance and health benefits, but actually re-training paid for from a fund like Social Security that corporations pay into. There are millions of good jobs available which is why many corporations are opposed to the draconian visa restrictions of the Trump Administration. If the President was ever really serious about jobs and "America First," he would be offering the hand up that all displaced workers deserve and need. It's time for the Democrats to get off the sound bite of a $15/hr. minimum wage, and propose a Job Security fund that will provide lifelong worker re-education and retraining that will restore the middle class.
98
So who is going to be doing all the ordering and buying in the future?
Robots don't wear pants or shoes.
The American consumer has maxed out their credit cards.
So what is the plan for 100 million unemployed?
Idil hands made the devils work!
Looking to DC for direction is both a waste of time and effort.
Innovation will have to come from local government and society.
In short, we are on our own and NOW is the time to act before the disenfranchised come to the same conclusion as Chairman Mao "All power comes out of the barrel of a gun"
Robots don't wear pants or shoes.
The American consumer has maxed out their credit cards.
So what is the plan for 100 million unemployed?
Idil hands made the devils work!
Looking to DC for direction is both a waste of time and effort.
Innovation will have to come from local government and society.
In short, we are on our own and NOW is the time to act before the disenfranchised come to the same conclusion as Chairman Mao "All power comes out of the barrel of a gun"
1
The power of a people lies in its ability to threaten, not convince, the ruling class that enough is enough.
This is not done through voting, but through demonstration on the public venue that flaunting wealth in the face of of impoverished people is raison sufficient to lose the safety of elitism.
In the 1980's, the phrase All Power To THe People became a mantra; in empowered rwesitance enough to end the Vietnam War. Yes, it ended because the Army refuse to send more troops, telling Nixon they might be needed here to quell resistance to Power.
Yes, the People made a difference. They can make a difference, if they use their connectivity to mount a unified resistance to the deterioration of their ecomonic fortunes, for the benefit of a bloated insensitive, Ruling Class.
This is not done through voting, but through demonstration on the public venue that flaunting wealth in the face of of impoverished people is raison sufficient to lose the safety of elitism.
In the 1980's, the phrase All Power To THe People became a mantra; in empowered rwesitance enough to end the Vietnam War. Yes, it ended because the Army refuse to send more troops, telling Nixon they might be needed here to quell resistance to Power.
Yes, the People made a difference. They can make a difference, if they use their connectivity to mount a unified resistance to the deterioration of their ecomonic fortunes, for the benefit of a bloated insensitive, Ruling Class.
1
Up the tax rate to 50% on those making over 500,000 per year. Tax dividends at the same rate as income. Then: rebuild bridges, dams, roads, schools; renovate historic districts, public museums and libraries; construct nationwide high speed rail; combine solar, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, tidal and battery technology with conservation efforts to modernize the energy grid; etc... It can be done and the benefits to our home planet and our hurting people will be multiplied a hundred per cent, plus!
5
In a general, macro sense, if the average Joe has low income he/she will not buy a lot of goods and services. That, in turn, will affect the business community as business will not thrive. When business does not thrive factories and service organizations will not thrive. Ultimately the economy will rest on whatever the 1% does with its money. In the long run it is to the advantage of the business community to pay good wages and find ways to provide a soft landing to those suffering from economic change.
119
If you go to a low income area, all the stores cater to this customer. It looks nothing like the variety and choice of a middle income area, and again, if you go to an upper class area, the stores, etc are yet again nicer and prettier.
This stratification kills innovation at the lower level...you won't/can't open a store in a low income area without being a "poverty pimp".
This stratification kills innovation at the lower level...you won't/can't open a store in a low income area without being a "poverty pimp".
Exactly. Turn Trickle down to bubble up and things begin to turn around.
You make way too much sense. Unfortunately, as Bernie has pointed out, for the 1 %, it's less about financial gain and more of a psychiatric problem. The Koch brothers are old and couldn't possibly spend their $80 billion dollar wealth, yet they work tirelessly to get the masses to vote against their interests, to take away their healthcare and work to make the middle-class live pay-check to pay-check.
Many of these malls are failing because they all sell the same low end junk. If they provided quality goods at a reasonable price, perhaps they wouldn't be in the pickle they are in.
5
Short-sighted... we are not far off from a time when trucks will drive themselves, and when robots can replace hotel maids. We need some truly progressive holistic leadership to look ahead to the still massive changes to come.
1
Trump is not prepared to deal with this.. nor may he want to. He has already shown where his alegences lie and that he mislead the voters by pandering to their financial and emotional needs and not really caring or willing to do anything substantial about them but lip service. And why should we expect any real effort? His call to bring back coal either demonstrates a simple lack of understanding about this resource and or an ignorance about how to face and develop a real future for America who are not already rich. He refuses to bring his own company into the made in America, hire Americans theme as does his daughter and his sons who should be looking to develop here instead of the middle east in places such as Dubai.. BUt he is a smart business man and goes where the money is. As a President … I don't think he can ever escape his ego and therefore incapable of really embracing the ture needs of Americans and thus his only product to date are a bunch of promises /lies as to how he will make it all great again. What we see occuring in His Washington is an ever grown more secret Whitehouse that for all we know is really just Mr. Trumps new real estate office .. HIs Daughter's companies new offices and free plan fare for his boys to trapse around the world doing business .. Not too many folks from the rust belt hangng around here or Mar A Largo. Lots of money people and deals being made there. But not so much as a Michiganite even waiting table. It hurts to be lied to.
2
There are 7.5 billion people on earth -- double the number in the halcyon 70s so many hark back to. And fuel is costlier, many natural resources fewer.
The human species will hit 9 billion in 25 years by some estimates and 13 billion by end of the century, so forecasts say. All of whom will be vying to eke out some semblance of a living.
Why do stories like this never mention sheer raw numbers competition when pondering what drives down wages?
Workers have little clout when billions will take any job for lower pay. It's one reason unions died.
Your grandkids will be standing line to change adult diapers for $3 an hour. and grateful for the gig.
The human species will hit 9 billion in 25 years by some estimates and 13 billion by end of the century, so forecasts say. All of whom will be vying to eke out some semblance of a living.
Why do stories like this never mention sheer raw numbers competition when pondering what drives down wages?
Workers have little clout when billions will take any job for lower pay. It's one reason unions died.
Your grandkids will be standing line to change adult diapers for $3 an hour. and grateful for the gig.
8
“The government needs to effectively manage inevitable change for the greater good.”
I personally find that to be a proper task of government, but in the current environment, it is impossible for government to do this, mostly because few Americans and few politicians are convinced that the government ought to do this. Ideally, a position paper such as this ought to argue for the need to manage inevitable change and at the same time argue that the government is the appropriate agency to do this.
We Americans and our politicians seem to be able to agree that one thing the national government ought to do, the one appropriate function of government, is to defend the nation militarily. For all other functions, some will argue that the task is better performed by state or local government or by the free market itself. For some functions, some will argue that it is not appropriate for them to be done at all, such as a basic social net.
To say “the government needs to” opens a conversation but does not go anywhere to make it a convincing statement. Unless we can actually convince others that management of inevitable change by the government is desirable, we are not actually talking to those who would disagree.
I personally find that to be a proper task of government, but in the current environment, it is impossible for government to do this, mostly because few Americans and few politicians are convinced that the government ought to do this. Ideally, a position paper such as this ought to argue for the need to manage inevitable change and at the same time argue that the government is the appropriate agency to do this.
We Americans and our politicians seem to be able to agree that one thing the national government ought to do, the one appropriate function of government, is to defend the nation militarily. For all other functions, some will argue that the task is better performed by state or local government or by the free market itself. For some functions, some will argue that it is not appropriate for them to be done at all, such as a basic social net.
To say “the government needs to” opens a conversation but does not go anywhere to make it a convincing statement. Unless we can actually convince others that management of inevitable change by the government is desirable, we are not actually talking to those who would disagree.
1
"high executive pay" has not suppressed worker pay. Lots of workers fewer jobs has suppressed worker pay. Many higher paying jobs have been eliminated and low paying fast food jobs are not suddenly going to morph into careers.
3
Low-wage working class Americans voted for Donald Trump, their hero who promised them he would "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!", and said so on their red Trump golf-caps for the achingly horrible 17 months of the last Presidential campaign. Now we have Trump as our 45th President, even though he was outvoted by 3,000,000 plus votes for Hillary Clinton.
American Workers are struggling to get ahead - minimum wage levels don't help, poor public transportation, high costs of child care have stomped on the very people who voted Trump into office. The malls are ghost towns and big box retail stores are closing by the dozens from sea to shining sea. Technology is far ahead of the 20th Century American way of life - Horatio Alger's "rags to riches" - and technological skills must be taught to the people who need them most to regain a foothold on the ladder up.
Online shopping is easy as pie these days. But not for people who don't know how to work computers, iphones, clever tablets, credit cards, and the like. We have turned into a fearful disconnected society of people who try to connect with one another by assuming the position of prayer as they thumb their widgets. No substitution for face to face human communication, but a mega-retailer's dream. Unemployment benefits and continuing health care are not handouts, they are the sinews of life in this disturbed time of inevitable change. The middle class needs support, job security and higher pay, access to affordable health care.
American Workers are struggling to get ahead - minimum wage levels don't help, poor public transportation, high costs of child care have stomped on the very people who voted Trump into office. The malls are ghost towns and big box retail stores are closing by the dozens from sea to shining sea. Technology is far ahead of the 20th Century American way of life - Horatio Alger's "rags to riches" - and technological skills must be taught to the people who need them most to regain a foothold on the ladder up.
Online shopping is easy as pie these days. But not for people who don't know how to work computers, iphones, clever tablets, credit cards, and the like. We have turned into a fearful disconnected society of people who try to connect with one another by assuming the position of prayer as they thumb their widgets. No substitution for face to face human communication, but a mega-retailer's dream. Unemployment benefits and continuing health care are not handouts, they are the sinews of life in this disturbed time of inevitable change. The middle class needs support, job security and higher pay, access to affordable health care.
3
Interesting the number of responses that essentially say capitalism needs no reins: one need only recall yesterday's Great Recession to see the folly of that sentiment.
The fact is, government does need to represent the interest of all level of workers to defend against unrestrained corporatism but especially in low wage jobs where there is no "safety" net; unemployment payments are so low for these workers, it rushes them into spiraling debt or homelessness; COBRA is so expensive, it's rarely taken by the few in Retail that actually get healthcare. No one need protect corporations from workers but I would think my taxes well-spent if they provide richer unemployment benefits, free training for higher skilled jobs and healthcare for all, regardless of ability to pay.
The fact is, government does need to represent the interest of all level of workers to defend against unrestrained corporatism but especially in low wage jobs where there is no "safety" net; unemployment payments are so low for these workers, it rushes them into spiraling debt or homelessness; COBRA is so expensive, it's rarely taken by the few in Retail that actually get healthcare. No one need protect corporations from workers but I would think my taxes well-spent if they provide richer unemployment benefits, free training for higher skilled jobs and healthcare for all, regardless of ability to pay.
"not impersonal forces"
Option 1.: Company A produces a product that folks want throughout the US and in many other parts of the world.
Option 2.: Governmental Organization B's workers stamp documents at their local government services office.
Get the picture yet?
Option 1.: Company A produces a product that folks want throughout the US and in many other parts of the world.
Option 2.: Governmental Organization B's workers stamp documents at their local government services office.
Get the picture yet?
2
When everything is automated, people will have to be paid to consume. It is really that simple. That is why ownership of the means of production has to be widely dispersed.
I was working on an IT project up here in Canada and one of the managers was this guy "Chuck" from Texas. At one point he made a few comments about Canadians being "work-shy" as we get such things as mandatory vacations, maternity leave and such.
Since he was the manager, we didn't bother arguing. Well, this project was in a big organization and pretty demanding. And after a while "Chuck", I think, realized we were working pretty hard to meet deadlines. So this "work-shy" talk disappeared.
Now, it turns out, "Chuck" was also managing six other projects at the same time. I wondered how he could do it unless the other projects were pretty tame. Anyway, one day I heard that "Chuck" had collapsed in his living room in the midst of a conference call and had to be rushed to hospital. They didn't really find anything at the hospital. But he still complained about a few things afterwards.
You Americans have been totally brainwashed into thinking any sort of legislation or protection mandated by the government to protect workers is some sort of evil 'socialism'. Well, good luck to you all. I prefer to be a 'work-shy' Canadian who enjoys a few legislative protections.
As as to the point of the article, a lot of people are ending up on the scrap heap as jobs disappear through automation and 'off-shoring' and you have very few policies, programs, etc. in place to deal with them.
Since he was the manager, we didn't bother arguing. Well, this project was in a big organization and pretty demanding. And after a while "Chuck", I think, realized we were working pretty hard to meet deadlines. So this "work-shy" talk disappeared.
Now, it turns out, "Chuck" was also managing six other projects at the same time. I wondered how he could do it unless the other projects were pretty tame. Anyway, one day I heard that "Chuck" had collapsed in his living room in the midst of a conference call and had to be rushed to hospital. They didn't really find anything at the hospital. But he still complained about a few things afterwards.
You Americans have been totally brainwashed into thinking any sort of legislation or protection mandated by the government to protect workers is some sort of evil 'socialism'. Well, good luck to you all. I prefer to be a 'work-shy' Canadian who enjoys a few legislative protections.
As as to the point of the article, a lot of people are ending up on the scrap heap as jobs disappear through automation and 'off-shoring' and you have very few policies, programs, etc. in place to deal with them.
15
Higher education is fine and good, but the fact is as you move up the economic ladder far fewer employees are required to do the work. There are still manufacturing jobs in smaller scale shops. Skilled trades... machine shop work, electrical, plumbing, hvac, welding are still good options though if everyone piles in wages will be depressed. No matter how you cut it there are going to be less going jobs and more people looking to get them.
2
"The immediate need is to ensure a strong safety net for displaced workers, including unemployment benefits and continuous health care coverage."
Good article, but the above does NOT sound like the current administration.
THEY HAVE TO GO.
Good article, but the above does NOT sound like the current administration.
THEY HAVE TO GO.
2
Trump is not going to help those low wage workers. Rather than expressing false hope that Trump will help in the last paragraph, the message should be resist and drain the swamp when the mid-term elections roll around.
6
Karl Marx was right.
With the means of production privately owned and more and more production becoming automated, there will eventually be nothing left for the rest of us. But if we have nothing, then there is no one to buy the products produced by the automated machinery. So the owners have nothing but useless machines.
I don't see how this model can last.
With the means of production privately owned and more and more production becoming automated, there will eventually be nothing left for the rest of us. But if we have nothing, then there is no one to buy the products produced by the automated machinery. So the owners have nothing but useless machines.
I don't see how this model can last.
3
Uh-huh. Issues for sure.
Calling on the US Federal Government to address the issues? Woo. Good luck with that. Have you seen how those guys operate lately? You really want THEM to "fix" the problem? You crazy?
Actually, government attempts at fixing the problem have caused so many more layers of problems that the real issues are obscured. Better, perhaps, to call on the government to stand back, stop interfering, and rescind the pile of laws that are currently enriching the rich and impoverishing the poor.
Calling on the US Federal Government to address the issues? Woo. Good luck with that. Have you seen how those guys operate lately? You really want THEM to "fix" the problem? You crazy?
Actually, government attempts at fixing the problem have caused so many more layers of problems that the real issues are obscured. Better, perhaps, to call on the government to stand back, stop interfering, and rescind the pile of laws that are currently enriching the rich and impoverishing the poor.
4
Trump’s whole career has been about wringing every advantage and every penny out of whatever situation he’s in. Golfing? Tee off, take a Mulligan, and sell the Trump name. The notion of economic theory is, well---who knew it was so complicated?
Current economic theories clearly work for the minority. For the rest, they’re a disaster—witness the near-fatal collapse of 2007—2008. (Plus S&L, Enron, dot.com, The Great Depression etc.). Some common terms used in discussions on the economy come from Adam Smith, whose "...Wealth of Nations..." (1776) has such over-used phrases as "the invisible hand." Smith, taken as a champion of laissez-faire economics, was well aware that, when capitalists gather together, the talk soon goes to collusion against the public. Smith’s other book “…Moral Sentiments…” predated “…Wealth…” by almost twenty years. Who talks about that?
Trump is full of hot air. Clinton championed plans to help the victims of the tectonic shifts in industry, but she didn’t have a BFF at Fox and didn’t have slavish door-openers at CNN. (Les Moonves “This [Trump] may be bad for America, but it’s great for CBS.”) The media colluded in the rise of Trump, and they still chase after his shiny objects in the Pacific while Sessions, Kelly, Mulvaney, McConnell, and Ryan turn America into a hell-hole.
Current economic theories clearly work for the minority. For the rest, they’re a disaster—witness the near-fatal collapse of 2007—2008. (Plus S&L, Enron, dot.com, The Great Depression etc.). Some common terms used in discussions on the economy come from Adam Smith, whose "...Wealth of Nations..." (1776) has such over-used phrases as "the invisible hand." Smith, taken as a champion of laissez-faire economics, was well aware that, when capitalists gather together, the talk soon goes to collusion against the public. Smith’s other book “…Moral Sentiments…” predated “…Wealth…” by almost twenty years. Who talks about that?
Trump is full of hot air. Clinton championed plans to help the victims of the tectonic shifts in industry, but she didn’t have a BFF at Fox and didn’t have slavish door-openers at CNN. (Les Moonves “This [Trump] may be bad for America, but it’s great for CBS.”) The media colluded in the rise of Trump, and they still chase after his shiny objects in the Pacific while Sessions, Kelly, Mulvaney, McConnell, and Ryan turn America into a hell-hole.
8
The ice sculpture that was Trump's promised changes and reforms is melting before the public's eyes. The media that supports the Democratic Party needs to stay closely attuned to our faux president. A leader he is not.
2
Full body laser scanning for "size prescriptions" and ever-improving VR online shopping will finish the malls...and the jobs. Time to also discuss UBI and make a minimal start w single payer health care.
A key related question is "Are consumer sales falling?" The editorial focuses on the impact of dying retail on the workers, but are Americans still the shopaholics we once were, or are the closets finally filled, and there is no longer that same sense of urgency to buy whatever it is that the fashionistas say we have to have this year? If people are simply opting to shop online instead of at the mall, that is one answer. But if our over-consumption is finally tailing off, the implications are significant.
Will retail become like coal, many of those jobs won't come back?
Will retail become like coal, many of those jobs won't come back?
1
On the bright side, none of us here today will be around to witness such calamity prevail; perhaps not even our children or grandchildren. In the meantime, log-in, log-on, shop-until-you-drop (or blister your fingers), buy that new iPhone, fiddle while Rome burns and--more than anything else--ueber alles: live, love, laugh, eat, drink and be merry as humanity, like the Titanic, travels inexorably toward a rendezvous with a proverbial iceberg.
Happy Saturday,
Alfred E.--What? Me worry?--Neuman
Happy Saturday,
Alfred E.--What? Me worry?--Neuman
1
For some fantastical reason, many of the gullible people who voted for Trump believe he will create decent jobs in their areas. This is magical thinking. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Trump to help those voters. Unfortunately, these are the voters who will once again get the shaft after all the dust settles around Trump's promises (lies). The 1950's - 1970's era manufacturing jobs are not coming back, ever, and you can only build so many Dollar Stores and Quickie Marts for creating low-pay, no-benefit retail jobs.
4
Neither Trump nor big retail are going to try to help low-skilled low-wage earners whom they do not need. They do not care about them, and Trump's empty promises are not important to them as long as he keeps stoking the flames of their anger and hatred.
The truth is that the jobs are going, but the profits are getting bigger in many cases. Those profits are going to the Trump supporters that Trump really serves, the 1% folks. One of the simplest political actions that we can take is to boycott. We might focus ideally on boycotting businesses with proven records of supporting Trump. However, we can assume that no matter what we buy, the top 1% benefits more than anyone else in the supply chain. So it is easier just to boycott any goods or services that are not absolutely necessary. We can just ask before buying anything, "Can I live without this?" Frugality is a good value anyway, and it can double as political action.
It is abundantly clear that Republicans and Trump are working for the benefit of the 1%, the only safe way to get their attention is to cut off their cash flow. Trump cannot call out the National Guard to make you spend your money. Results may not be immediate, but if sales are down it will begin to affect quarterly earnings and that will impact stock prices. All of a sudden those 1% folks may discover that they do not have as much power as they thought.
We need to let them know to change their ways or we ain't buying anymore.
The truth is that the jobs are going, but the profits are getting bigger in many cases. Those profits are going to the Trump supporters that Trump really serves, the 1% folks. One of the simplest political actions that we can take is to boycott. We might focus ideally on boycotting businesses with proven records of supporting Trump. However, we can assume that no matter what we buy, the top 1% benefits more than anyone else in the supply chain. So it is easier just to boycott any goods or services that are not absolutely necessary. We can just ask before buying anything, "Can I live without this?" Frugality is a good value anyway, and it can double as political action.
It is abundantly clear that Republicans and Trump are working for the benefit of the 1%, the only safe way to get their attention is to cut off their cash flow. Trump cannot call out the National Guard to make you spend your money. Results may not be immediate, but if sales are down it will begin to affect quarterly earnings and that will impact stock prices. All of a sudden those 1% folks may discover that they do not have as much power as they thought.
We need to let them know to change their ways or we ain't buying anymore.
2
Of course they can mine coal!
1
"Now its his turn to help"?
Seriously, does anyone think anything is on Trump's mind besides helping Trump?
Seriously, does anyone think anything is on Trump's mind besides helping Trump?
4
An important reason that retail outlets are in trouble is the short-term mind set of those who fund and build malls and expand their business into them. The decision-makers are willing to pile on debt in various kinds of take-overs and expand despite clear evidence of too many stores chasing business that is switching to online transactions. These decision-makers typically are getting paid huge salaries and have golden parachutes.
This is in contrast to the long-term thinking of Jeff Bezos at Amazon. I remember years and years when Bezos was criticized for not showing enough profit as he continued to invest in Amazon and innovate.
This is in contrast to the long-term thinking of Jeff Bezos at Amazon. I remember years and years when Bezos was criticized for not showing enough profit as he continued to invest in Amazon and innovate.
56
"When you ain't got nothing you got nothing to lose" Bob Dylan wrote. People will have no choice but to revolt against the greedy rich just to survive. Our government in bed with the corporations, will not protect us from them. In fact our leaders are continually removing consumer protections which allows corporations to treat us like garbage. Where is a bonafide airline passenger bill of rights? Does it include not being punched in the face and dragged off the plane? After this incident did the politicians call for the removal of United's Chairman and severe punishment to United? No! The wealthy are causing such misery throughout the world that there must be payback by the people or they will never stop abusing us. Let them build their fortresses protected by their private military because they're going to need them.
1
With all due respect to the grim employment prospects for retail, it seems to me that part of what is happening now is related to massive oversupply of retail stores. Just how much stuff do we need?
The focus on shopping (remember W.'s advice after 9/11?) grew so much since my childhood (sounding like an old geezer here) that it truly has become the national pastime. I drive past malls on weekends (beautiful sunny days!) and the lots are full.
I read recently that people have stopped buying so many clothes. With the change in formality at work, among other social shifts, they are just not necessary.
And perhaps since the Great Recession, people are wising up to how they spend their much-diminished disposable income.
I hear that millennials are more likely to spend money on life experiences rather than stuff. I think this is a good thing.
The focus on shopping (remember W.'s advice after 9/11?) grew so much since my childhood (sounding like an old geezer here) that it truly has become the national pastime. I drive past malls on weekends (beautiful sunny days!) and the lots are full.
I read recently that people have stopped buying so many clothes. With the change in formality at work, among other social shifts, they are just not necessary.
And perhaps since the Great Recession, people are wising up to how they spend their much-diminished disposable income.
I hear that millennials are more likely to spend money on life experiences rather than stuff. I think this is a good thing.
2
If the title of this article - As retail goes, so goes the nation - foretells the future, then this nation is in BIG trouble.
1
When EZ-Pass replaced toll-booth clerks, when ATMs replaced bank tellers, when automatic meters replaced the old electric meters that Con Edison workers had to read for you (remember having to stay home for the Con Ed guy to come read the meter?) . . . .
When Amazon replaced book stores and department stores, and self check-out counters replaced cashiers at Home Depot and Super Stop n' Shop . . . .
There are fewer and fewer jobs for decent, middlin' Americans. And those who voted for Donald Trump on the strength of his "bringing jobs back" simply do not understand that their jobs were taken by machines.
The United States could, of course, embark on a massive re-education program for such people. But chances are, sadly, they won't be able to be re-educated.
(Now, such people could always go up to New England resort towns and fill the jobs once taken by locals and, later, foreigners with temporary work visas. Hotels and restaurants there need workers desperately. But people don't just pick up and leave their homes for seasonal work.)
When Amazon replaced book stores and department stores, and self check-out counters replaced cashiers at Home Depot and Super Stop n' Shop . . . .
There are fewer and fewer jobs for decent, middlin' Americans. And those who voted for Donald Trump on the strength of his "bringing jobs back" simply do not understand that their jobs were taken by machines.
The United States could, of course, embark on a massive re-education program for such people. But chances are, sadly, they won't be able to be re-educated.
(Now, such people could always go up to New England resort towns and fill the jobs once taken by locals and, later, foreigners with temporary work visas. Hotels and restaurants there need workers desperately. But people don't just pick up and leave their homes for seasonal work.)
108
I think this trend started with the idea that customers should pump their own gas at gas stations. Gone was any service, such as cleaning the windshield and back window, checking oil level, etc. Gone also was the gas station attendant. Job transferred to the customer! Same concept for ATM transactions, self check-out at the grocery store, self check-in at the airport kiosk, etc. Jobs lost and no customer service.
When I go to Panera for coffee and a bagel, I am confronted with self-order computer terminals and a little paging device to put on the table where I sit. I have to get my own coffee from a big urn (often empty because nobody is watching to see if it needs to be refreshed) and carry the full coffee cup to a table, which might be clean. A person does bring the rest of the order to the table, taking away the little paging device. I don't think this counts as waitress service. The manager has encouraged me to order at the computer terminals. I have resisted. The one person taking orders from those like me who won't use the self-order terminals does tell me to slide my Panera card myself. Now, every time I am confronted with another "job" transferred to me, I tell the management type telling me how to do the new "job" that I already have too many jobs. What I really want is some customer service. As I continue to get older, I will probably need more customer service and fewer jobs.
When I go to Panera for coffee and a bagel, I am confronted with self-order computer terminals and a little paging device to put on the table where I sit. I have to get my own coffee from a big urn (often empty because nobody is watching to see if it needs to be refreshed) and carry the full coffee cup to a table, which might be clean. A person does bring the rest of the order to the table, taking away the little paging device. I don't think this counts as waitress service. The manager has encouraged me to order at the computer terminals. I have resisted. The one person taking orders from those like me who won't use the self-order terminals does tell me to slide my Panera card myself. Now, every time I am confronted with another "job" transferred to me, I tell the management type telling me how to do the new "job" that I already have too many jobs. What I really want is some customer service. As I continue to get older, I will probably need more customer service and fewer jobs.
1
I'd say that we, the American taxpayers have been subsidizing the poorly paid retail and service workers with our taxes for many years. The likes of Walmart, fast-food places etc. pay their workers poorly, usually only offer p/t work with varying schedules and low or minimal benefits. Our taxes are used to pay their workers the Earned Income Credit, SNAP, WIC, fuel assistance and other benefits to make up for what they don't earn.
So how about demanding that these establishments provide for f/t livable wage work for their workers? Otherwise, let's use our taxes to help these workers instead of helping the Walmart heirs get even richer. Let's use our taxes for education, training, child-care subsidies, relocation assistance; whatever these workers need to make a better future for themselves and their families. I'm sick of helping out the shareholders of these companies; time to help the workers!
So how about demanding that these establishments provide for f/t livable wage work for their workers? Otherwise, let's use our taxes to help these workers instead of helping the Walmart heirs get even richer. Let's use our taxes for education, training, child-care subsidies, relocation assistance; whatever these workers need to make a better future for themselves and their families. I'm sick of helping out the shareholders of these companies; time to help the workers!
4
All of those programs you mention are available only to those who produced children they could not afford to support. We sure as heck aren't subsidizing childfree retail workers.
There is no automatic right to breed. We need fewer humans than ever; we need the population to decline to save the planet. People with few skills need to focus on improving themselves, not on producing more new humans to burden society.
There is no automatic right to breed. We need fewer humans than ever; we need the population to decline to save the planet. People with few skills need to focus on improving themselves, not on producing more new humans to burden society.
3
"Service workers are poorly paid and have few benefits because of intentional policy decisions, not impersonal forces." No, very PERSONAL forces determine what people are paid - the individual decisions of buyers and sellers in a free market. History has shown over and over that coercion via government policy produces a worse outcome for those most in need of "help", including service workers who are locked out of the labor market by a $15 minimum wage.
2
And you believe in unicorns too. I heard this excuse about the minimum wage too many times, all lies.
Here is a fact: if you pay workers poorly then they cannot buy big ticket items like cars, house appliances like washing machines etc, houses. Paying workers poorly continues spiraling outward hurting other workers.
Here is a fact: if you pay workers poorly then they cannot buy big ticket items like cars, house appliances like washing machines etc, houses. Paying workers poorly continues spiraling outward hurting other workers.
1
To provide a decent life for the majority of our people it is clear we need a decent minimum wage (indexed for inflation) and universal health care supported by progressive taxation. All things that Trump and the Republicans are violently opposed to.
1
yes, retail jobs are disappearing largely because of online shopping...another significant factor is large numbers of people simply do not have the income to keep the remaining stores afloat...combine stagnant wage growth with the absurdly high cost of health insurance, education, and rent/mortgage there is very little left over to support brick and mortar shops...
2
This country needs to take a much more aggressive look at pre-school and elementary education, and providing more focus on parental responsibility for the education of their kids. Teachers can only do so much if their work is not reinforced at home and children are not pushed and prodded by their parents to do better.
3
"Teachers can only do so much if their work is not reinforced at home and children are not pushed and prodded by their parents to do better."
Most people hate to believe what you've written, but the fact is that too many of our citizens are undereducated and, in their behavior, almost feral because their progenitors forgot, if they ever knew it, that parenting is a difficult job.
There are many jobs to be had in this country -- only that too many of our citizens are not qualified to perform them. Nor will they ever be.
Most people hate to believe what you've written, but the fact is that too many of our citizens are undereducated and, in their behavior, almost feral because their progenitors forgot, if they ever knew it, that parenting is a difficult job.
There are many jobs to be had in this country -- only that too many of our citizens are not qualified to perform them. Nor will they ever be.
2
"We've been too long American dreaming
And I think we've all lost the way
Forlorn somnambulistic maniacal in the dark"
Meh. It ain't as bad since those jobs are garbage anyway. There should be jobs in delivering all those online purchases? There should be jobs creating those online marketplaces. Bottom line america lost it's way when it gave up on dragging stupid american culture from mediocrity into the 21st century.
Look at India - dirt ignorant a few generations ago - and now an engineering factory - all based on a desire to keep up with the world. America is lost. Make your money and get out.
And I think we've all lost the way
Forlorn somnambulistic maniacal in the dark"
Meh. It ain't as bad since those jobs are garbage anyway. There should be jobs in delivering all those online purchases? There should be jobs creating those online marketplaces. Bottom line america lost it's way when it gave up on dragging stupid american culture from mediocrity into the 21st century.
Look at India - dirt ignorant a few generations ago - and now an engineering factory - all based on a desire to keep up with the world. America is lost. Make your money and get out.
Here's what I don't understand about middle class jobs and "making America great again."
America was not founded by people who came here looking for a benefactor to hand them a job in a factory or a shopping mall and guarantee they would keep one job in one place for life. It was founded by people who were willing to give up everything they had to move somewhere else, often multiple times, so that they could make their own way in life.
In that legacy, I have gone through three different careers and moved 10 times, some of them abroad, to support myself and my family. I have never blamed immigrants for needing to compete and be at my best, nor have I expected the government to plop down a company next to my house to offer me the job I want at the salary I want without leaving the comfort of my hometown.
For a real scare, read the book "Men Without Work." America will only become "great again" when the America Man stops wasting his time and money on guns, video games, television, and man-toys, and begins to invest his time and money learning something constructive and improving himself.
I get furi
America was not founded by people who came here looking for a benefactor to hand them a job in a factory or a shopping mall and guarantee they would keep one job in one place for life. It was founded by people who were willing to give up everything they had to move somewhere else, often multiple times, so that they could make their own way in life.
In that legacy, I have gone through three different careers and moved 10 times, some of them abroad, to support myself and my family. I have never blamed immigrants for needing to compete and be at my best, nor have I expected the government to plop down a company next to my house to offer me the job I want at the salary I want without leaving the comfort of my hometown.
For a real scare, read the book "Men Without Work." America will only become "great again" when the America Man stops wasting his time and money on guns, video games, television, and man-toys, and begins to invest his time and money learning something constructive and improving himself.
I get furi
200
"I get furi . . . ."
I get furious too, Luomaike.
I get furious too, Luomaike.
Your last paragraph is spot on. Young people do want to work. As an old timer (66) I hear it all the time.
However, people are also tied to jobs by their healthcare. A problem whose possible solution has been suggested many times in this news source by single payer health care, which would free people to move. Add the uncertainty of healthcare to the expenses of moving and it becomes more daunting.
If the jobs one is moving between are high paying jobs where that is not an issue, that's okay. If they are the usual low to moderate paying jobs available, then it is probably not worth it.
However, people are also tied to jobs by their healthcare. A problem whose possible solution has been suggested many times in this news source by single payer health care, which would free people to move. Add the uncertainty of healthcare to the expenses of moving and it becomes more daunting.
If the jobs one is moving between are high paying jobs where that is not an issue, that's okay. If they are the usual low to moderate paying jobs available, then it is probably not worth it.
I have to agree. Too many of the displaced factory workers say right up front "I'm not going to go back to school to be retrained". It is on them to find new skills to meet the current job market.
2
The point this editorial misses is that new jobs created by online retail sales are not transferable to the people who've lost their old jobs working in retail stores. It's not possible for all these employees to start driving trucks for FedEx or UPS or to load those trucks in warehouses. So technology, which we can't stop, has unintended consequences and is indeed responsible for many job losses. Consider the toll takers, all of whom are gone here in Massachusetts. When was the last time you saw an elevator operator? Eventually there will be so many people unemployed and replace by technology we'll have to give them a guaranteed annual wage combined with food and housing. Otherwise we'll be laying the groundwork for a revolution. As Bob Marley said, "A hungry man is an angry man."
171
Actually Bob Marley said" An 'ungry man is a hangry man'. But I get your well reasoned point.
1
The guaranteed annual wage is finally gaining traction, but it needs to be coupled with activity that gives each recipient a sense of purpose and self-esteem and helps support the society that is employing them. There is no shortage of jobs to be performed to ensure a well functioning society where everyone is cared for which also provides the consumers to keep the economy rolling. This will be a paradigm shift but will be required in this emerging economy.
1
The point this editorial misses is that new jobs created by online retail sales are not transferable to the people who've lost their old jobs working in retail stores.
yes, they most certainly are. No reason engineers can't pack groceries, or stock pallets. (sarcasm)
yes, they most certainly are. No reason engineers can't pack groceries, or stock pallets. (sarcasm)
1
I find your piece to be very interesting. The reason's you list as road blocks to a good paying job,
"The unions that for so long made factory jobs a middle-class mainstay have not been much of a force in the service sector, partly because laws and regulations have made union organizing difficult. The erosion of minimum wage levels and overtime pay standards, combined with high executive pay, has also suppressed worker pay. The lack of efficient public transportation, child care, fair work schedules and paid sick days virtually guarantee one employment setback after another for workers who are already struggling to get ahead.",
are the very things trump and the GOP support. His cabinet picks want to dismantle the safety net along with agencies that help the middle class while enriching the top 1%. Why did they vote for trump and the GOP and why do they still support them???
"The unions that for so long made factory jobs a middle-class mainstay have not been much of a force in the service sector, partly because laws and regulations have made union organizing difficult. The erosion of minimum wage levels and overtime pay standards, combined with high executive pay, has also suppressed worker pay. The lack of efficient public transportation, child care, fair work schedules and paid sick days virtually guarantee one employment setback after another for workers who are already struggling to get ahead.",
are the very things trump and the GOP support. His cabinet picks want to dismantle the safety net along with agencies that help the middle class while enriching the top 1%. Why did they vote for trump and the GOP and why do they still support them???
4
yeah great-everyone wants a future in transportation and warehousing. uber or putting boxes on a conveyor belt for amazon. this opinion piece says it all why us regular folks really view the nyt with disdain.
2
I was recently in Home Depot because my home yard cart broke from essentially old age. Time for a new one at the Home Depot.
The place was crawling with upper manager types as it has been in recent years, my take on this is that they want employees to be more helpful.
I approached one of the bigwigs to locate a cart, he was taken aback as we searched the store, finally he grabbed the head of the dept. "We must have one somewhere" we searched in vain. Finally at a computer terminal we found "none in stock" the head of the dept looked at me and said " you know Amazon is great they will get it to you in a day or two"
The manager was very helpful, I found my item.
The place was crawling with upper manager types as it has been in recent years, my take on this is that they want employees to be more helpful.
I approached one of the bigwigs to locate a cart, he was taken aback as we searched the store, finally he grabbed the head of the dept. "We must have one somewhere" we searched in vain. Finally at a computer terminal we found "none in stock" the head of the dept looked at me and said " you know Amazon is great they will get it to you in a day or two"
The manager was very helpful, I found my item.
60
In my returement I briefly spent a year before the mast at a Home Depot. The model there is generally a three to four person relatively well paid management tier overseeing a half dozen or so poorly paid dept. heads and some 40 or 50 even more poorly paid associates. An on site HR person perkily manages the high rate of turnover and is charged with the unenviable task of persuading the transient workforce there that the reason they're being paid isn't really only because slavery is illegal. Barbara Ehrenbach (hope I got that right) says it better, but seeing it up close was eye opening.
1
You got me confused. You didn't make clear if they found your item for you in the store after seeing Amazon could provide it, or if you ended up getting it from Amazon. Also, was it the bigwig or the store department head who got it for you?
Remember you can order on-line from Home Depot and have items delivered in the same way Amazon works . The size of the retail store affects the inventory you see when inspecting for a given item . It's always on-line somewhere.
2
Everyone is buying online and the baby boomers are not purchasing luxury purses. That is the true explanation. Get with it. Unions are also updated and their day is coming.
1
Regarding unions, it's not just laws and regulations that have made unions less powerful. The workers' have been ambivalent if not outright hostile to unions as well. What happened in WI when Scott (Koch) Walker took over was aided by WI voters who voted him into office three times.
145
Unions in the private sector were slowly gutted under the guise of keeping your job. Then those who weren't in unions any more resented the private sector unions that he attacked, (except police and firemen, which Weasel Walker was shrewd enough not to touch) and therefore no support from anyone. His stated strategy was divide and conquer and it worked. But that makes me wonder what kind of society we are building, or destroying, when we have to divide and conquer. And who are we conquering for? And why?
1
More of the vote against your own self-interest phenomenon.
1
Those WI voters, who voted against their own best economic interests, were strongly propagandized by right wing talk radio hosts, like Charlie Sykes and Mark Behling and the like. The agenda of these propagandists was to push not only the agenda of the Koch brothers, but also the right-wing agenda of Bradley Foundation. For years, many working-class would have their heads filled with propaganda while working on construction projects, painting, installing electricity, plumbing, masonry, working in tool-shops, etc. When their standard of living and benefits were threatened and hurt by economic downturns, these talk show hosts jumped in and amplified the fact that the taxes of the private sector working class voter were still supporting the salaries and good benefits of the WI public sector employees, those employees whose benefits and jobs were largely protected by law. These talk show right-wing propagandists amplified the private-sector working-class resentment for more than 20 years! It'll be a long and hard sell in WI, to reverse course when the propaganda thrust here continues to be to convince the public that unionization is the cause of economic woes. Folks have been duped into believing that it's every man for himself, not, I'm my brother's keeper or, in unity, there is strength.
4
I'm old enough to remember that once you could buy almost anything from the Sears catalog, the earliest version of "on-line" shopping.
6
Let me paraphrase the line from that great American philosopher Rush Limbaugh. 'Trump is a foney baloney plastic banana good time rock and roll con artist.' Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin should never be allowed to live him down.
1
Who says the traditional shopping mall is dead?? The Apple Store, The Cheesecake Factory, and The Shake Shop recently opened up for business in Queens Center Mall in Elmhurst. So let's not be too hasty in putting the nails into the coffin of the shopping mall just yet.
1
Sorry I meant Shake Shack.
Guaranteed basic income now!
1
Nothing will improve for poor and struggling folks as long as the Republicans have political power. Anyone who votes Republican is shooting themselves in the foot.
15
Since the skill and job profile keep changing with each economic advance, the displacement is inevitable. However, state being essentially a representative institution of society, it's the obligation of state to provide an enabling atmosphere of opportunities through effective public policy that extends social safety net to the needy, and prevents market distortions.
13
If all the able-bodied, working age people showed up to work tomorrow would there be enough jobs for everyone?
Nonetheless, rest assured Republicans and conservatives will argue the American "I'd-rather-be-working class" should support tax cuts for the one percent since they are the job creators. And the unemployed working class, sitting on the couch throughout the day, will believe them and do just that.
Yes, it's the new American way: make those without any money pay the taxes. If they don't have any earnings, increase fees and, the holy grail, when they don't even have the money to feed themselves or their families, introduce them to the justice system subject to perpetual fines they can't pay.
Blame the public education system. It was clearly wrong when it taught my generation that in order for our system of gov't to function someone has to pay taxes.
Nonetheless, rest assured Republicans and conservatives will argue the American "I'd-rather-be-working class" should support tax cuts for the one percent since they are the job creators. And the unemployed working class, sitting on the couch throughout the day, will believe them and do just that.
Yes, it's the new American way: make those without any money pay the taxes. If they don't have any earnings, increase fees and, the holy grail, when they don't even have the money to feed themselves or their families, introduce them to the justice system subject to perpetual fines they can't pay.
Blame the public education system. It was clearly wrong when it taught my generation that in order for our system of gov't to function someone has to pay taxes.
25
So if we consistently keep importing a million legal immigrants a year, many unskilled or with no formal education, where will the jobs be for them?
We must consider the fact that native born Americans are already struggling.
Undoubtedly things are going to get a lot worse for most of us in this country.
Much, much worse.
We must consider the fact that native born Americans are already struggling.
Undoubtedly things are going to get a lot worse for most of us in this country.
Much, much worse.
8
The native born are not suffering because of immigration. They are suffering because of automation and a ruling class that considers them so much trash and hires politicians to further their agenda.The "immigrant labor" meme is just another distraction to keep us at each others' throats rather than turn on the elite power structure. This IS a class issue. Time to stop tip-toeing around and talk about class in this country. Yes, it is exists; and yes, it is hurting us all.
1
Mass immigration both legal and illegal keeps wages down.
I strongly agree with you that it is a class issue.
I ask though how does the average American benefit from the constant flow of millions of immigrants into our country?
We're running out of natural resources, housing, class rooms, health care, public transportation, etc.
25% of the current population of the city of Boston is a recently landed immigrant. Time for a little time out.
I strongly agree with you that it is a class issue.
I ask though how does the average American benefit from the constant flow of millions of immigrants into our country?
We're running out of natural resources, housing, class rooms, health care, public transportation, etc.
25% of the current population of the city of Boston is a recently landed immigrant. Time for a little time out.
2
In constructing our malls, we made a decision to invest in infrastructure--new roads, new interchanges, traffic signals, bus routes and the like. As malls contract, that investment is lost.
A more enlightened approach would give the declining mall a "soft landing". There are fixed costs for a mall operator even with an empty space such as lighting and A/C. If a store is shuttered for 6 months or so without a new tenant, the mall operator might be encouraged to offer that space to a valuable non-profit for 10% over those fixed costs. This would be a win-win-win as our infrastructure investment would continue to provide benefit, the non-profit would get a break and some breathing room and the mall operator might continue operation longer both for all tenants and for the community.
A more enlightened approach would give the declining mall a "soft landing". There are fixed costs for a mall operator even with an empty space such as lighting and A/C. If a store is shuttered for 6 months or so without a new tenant, the mall operator might be encouraged to offer that space to a valuable non-profit for 10% over those fixed costs. This would be a win-win-win as our infrastructure investment would continue to provide benefit, the non-profit would get a break and some breathing room and the mall operator might continue operation longer both for all tenants and for the community.
10
What about all the other costs to the mall owner/operator? Mortgage expense, repair and maintenance expenses (parking lots, roofs), security, not to mention the ability to make a small profit? I don't think leasing to a non-profit is the answer.
With an aging population, deconstruction of empty malls by cities and towns and putting in subsidized housing villages for that population is a better use of the land.
With an aging population, deconstruction of empty malls by cities and towns and putting in subsidized housing villages for that population is a better use of the land.
1
A typical mall has several acres of flat rooftop. In most parts of the country this could be extremely convenient space for creating small solar farms as they are typically a short distance from urban areas (less power loss through transmission) and solar panels would not be taking up real estate that could be put to some other useful purpose. One shopping mall roof could provide enough power to supply several hundred to a few thousand homes. This would enable the real estate to continue to be economically productive.
Some admittedly rough numbers, but they give the idea:
Sun Valley Mall, Concord, California
Roof area = 1.3 million square feet
Typical PV panel generates 10 watts/sq.ft
Total power = 13 million watts
Typical 2000 sq.ft. home requires 4000 watts of panel production to be self-sufficient.
13 million / 4000 = 3250 homes
So an array on one shopping mall could provide power for a considerable portion of the neighborhood around it.
Some admittedly rough numbers, but they give the idea:
Sun Valley Mall, Concord, California
Roof area = 1.3 million square feet
Typical PV panel generates 10 watts/sq.ft
Total power = 13 million watts
Typical 2000 sq.ft. home requires 4000 watts of panel production to be self-sufficient.
13 million / 4000 = 3250 homes
So an array on one shopping mall could provide power for a considerable portion of the neighborhood around it.
2
" the mall operator might be encouraged to offer that space to a valuable non-profit for 10% over those fixed costs."
Valuable non-profit? Operating from your suburban mall? Your soft-landing implies the malls would then continue as centers of non-profit activities. If retail activities cannot generate enough revenue to keep a mall afloat what makes you think "valuable non-profits" will do the trick while providing the mall owner with a 10% profit margin?
Valuable non-profit? Operating from your suburban mall? Your soft-landing implies the malls would then continue as centers of non-profit activities. If retail activities cannot generate enough revenue to keep a mall afloat what makes you think "valuable non-profits" will do the trick while providing the mall owner with a 10% profit margin?
3
The growth of online retailing is one impetus toward change. Soon, humans who drive the trucks that deliver goods purchased online may be replaced by robots, such as flying drones and driverless cars. Another key difference between now and the receding past of middle class glory is that the low-skill jobs require little training, so employers don't invest much in their employees and often cut costs by creating part-time positions that don't require government-mandated benefits.
Our oligarchs, both political and economic, need to understand that people need meaningful employment, and especially men need to feel that they can provide for their families. Structuring our economy to enable this end is essential.
Our oligarchs, both political and economic, need to understand that people need meaningful employment, and especially men need to feel that they can provide for their families. Structuring our economy to enable this end is essential.
13
The law of Supply & Demand applies to labor (services) as well as products. Regardless of the nature of the labor to be performed (retail work, brain surgery, etc), if there are more qualified people available to perform it (Supply) than the amount of labor needed to be done (Demand), unemployment in that line of work will be higher and wages for that work will be suppressed. As demand for particular types of labor shifts up or down (or arises & disappears), an individual's risk of unemployment is inversely proportional to the range of his/her skill sets & flexibility. The more high-demand skill sets one has, the less one's risk of unemployment or low wages. Both high & low skilled work is subject to automation or other factors (laws, fads, new technologies, etc) which eliminate the need for human labor altogether.
The only way to assure high employment and high wages for humans is to limit the number of humans to less than the work which humans require (demand) be done. Thus, while economic growth depends on a constant supply of humans to generate a constant demand for products and services, the pressure for profit and the emergence of new technologies (which obsolete earlier technologies, products and services) operate to reduce the need for human labor, and thus humans and their demands. The irony in capitalism is that its existence depends on eliminating the one element key to its existence. The ultimate Buddhist koan.;-)
The only way to assure high employment and high wages for humans is to limit the number of humans to less than the work which humans require (demand) be done. Thus, while economic growth depends on a constant supply of humans to generate a constant demand for products and services, the pressure for profit and the emergence of new technologies (which obsolete earlier technologies, products and services) operate to reduce the need for human labor, and thus humans and their demands. The irony in capitalism is that its existence depends on eliminating the one element key to its existence. The ultimate Buddhist koan.;-)
7
Granted there are too many people. But we must realize two things. We are not breeding as fast as we used to breed, in spite of the Republican's best efforts, but if you want to reduce the population, you can just wait or you can commit genocide. Assuming you wish to wait, we must realize that through robotics, many jobs are going to disappear. Reading about the advances in genomics, there are so many new jobs opening up, "Plant Systematist" as one and I do not mean factory.
We need to begin transitioning to a more leisure society. That means less profit and more benefits. Believe it or not, there are already countries that make sure EVERYONE has just a bit more than just the basics, the Netherlands, as one. They do not however spend 75% of their GDP on their military. Yes, Wars will have to be given up and more reasonable methods will have to be employed, if you will, to solve disputes.
We need to begin transitioning to a more leisure society. That means less profit and more benefits. Believe it or not, there are already countries that make sure EVERYONE has just a bit more than just the basics, the Netherlands, as one. They do not however spend 75% of their GDP on their military. Yes, Wars will have to be given up and more reasonable methods will have to be employed, if you will, to solve disputes.
1
Village,
Take heart. When the Governor of the Bank of England said 15 million of Britain's 31 million jobs would disappear in the next two decades he told us that the fifth largest job loss sector would be financial services.
I take heart in the fact that in five years the two most important courses toward an MBA will be coffee brewing 101 and mixology 200.
In a more perfect world conversational English might be a better course for MBAs but we are more interested in venting than listening.
Take heart. When the Governor of the Bank of England said 15 million of Britain's 31 million jobs would disappear in the next two decades he told us that the fifth largest job loss sector would be financial services.
I take heart in the fact that in five years the two most important courses toward an MBA will be coffee brewing 101 and mixology 200.
In a more perfect world conversational English might be a better course for MBAs but we are more interested in venting than listening.
2
I have never understood the aversion to a single payer healthcare system. Removing the burden of the complexity of healthcare compliance and reporting from businesses and placing it squarely on society as a whole would provide relief to all forms of business from manufacturing to the service industry and beyond. It would proved some security to a population already reeling from economic change and allow businesses to focus on their products. We would all be better off.
140
I have wondered exactly the same thing. It would be a relief to business owners not to have to participate in the complicated administration of our current healthcare system. A simple line item payroll deduction, as they do already for Medicare is all it would take.
I write a weekly letter to Pres. Trump and that was the subject of it a few weeks ago.
I write a weekly letter to Pres. Trump and that was the subject of it a few weeks ago.
1
The aversion, of course, lies within the healthcare system itself. The triumvirate of insurers, drug makers, and hospitals/MDs stands to lose much at the hands of a single payer system. Their well funded lobby apparatus prevents the rest of America from participating in any decision as to how health care is delivered.
The very premise of the article is completely wrongheaded. "... high executive pay has suppressed worker pay". Min wage, overtime pay standards, union lack of unions have all led to low pay jobs. Wrong. Retail and other low pay jobs are low skill jobs subject to replacement by technology or by lower pay alternatives. People who repaired watches were put out of business by inexpensive watches not because of lack of unions. The issue is the skill level of the workforce. The presumption of the Nytimes is that government can create artificial barriers to change by imposing laws that pay people more than is sustainable while ignoring the underlying cause, skill and education level of the workforce. Wages are going up right now because of a vibrant economy hence the need for Starbucks and Walmart to raise their wages. However, the countervailing force is automation. Higher low skilled wages will be replaced by technology. There are 3.5M truck drivers. How many will lose their jobs when self-driving vehicles are common? Unions and the Nytimes board policies will not solve for keeping these jobs
9
"The issue is the skill level of the workforce." Yes. Education, one of the most poorly funded and supported endeavors of the U.S. Jobs lost are being replaced by someone or something that knows more than the person losing their job. In the case of someone, it's a higher skill set. In the case of something - that thing needs skilled people to make it, maintain it and repair it. In the 80's I recognized the potential for my job to be impacted by personal computers. Curious, I learned all I could, and at 65 am still learning as I use my PC, tablet and smart phone in my daily work life. We need to provide the spark of curiosity at an early age, and provide educational and hands on experiences to sustain that curiosity, and to sustain a happy life.
1
"The presumption of the Nytimes is that government can create artificial barriers to change..." I don't know where you read that. As a reader of the NYT, my insistence is that it is the job of the government to ensure that all its children are as well educated as possible--H2b visas are an insult to young Americans and to the education system. One task of good schooling is to teach how to learn and how to go on learning throughout life. And it's also the task of government to encourage or otherwise ensure the availability of retraining for those discarded by the new economy. Unfortunately, America is run like the Olympics--there is a minority of winners, all the rest are losers. That is inhuman.
Oh dear, people who repaired watches were put out of business by inexpensive watches.
And people who repaired violins were also put out of business by inexpensive violins. When the over one hundred year old violin I inherited needed repair I just bought myself a new one.
And people who repaired violins were also put out of business by inexpensive violins. When the over one hundred year old violin I inherited needed repair I just bought myself a new one.
3
I heard the President use the term "the wealth of our nation" the other day and have been pondering it every since: 1) What is a Nation, and 2) Where and In whom resides its wealth? I think these are the questions we will be asking ourselves as we move into the future that does not require the labor of a large portion of humanity.
30
I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.
John Adams
John Adams
15
To quote, "The government needs to effectively manage inevitable change for the greater good." That sound like an oxy moron if there ever was one. The U. S. Government, especially the current one, effectively managing any programs for the common greater good.....well good luck with that. A few programs like the WPA and the CCC of the 1930's implemented by FDR would go a long way to providing jobs, skills training and helping the understructure of America. American hospitals and other healthcare facilities are understaffed by several million people. Providing monetary support for education and training would go a long way to reduce the shortage of needed medical personnel and employment for a large number of people. Now that is a program to manage change for the greater good.
3
Those programs you mentioned were stop-gap measures, with the wealth of America generated by a robust manufacturing sector providing the Post-War boom years.
Unionization does not work
Businesses need a level playing field. Unions target businesses selectively, to interfere with and disrupt the normal competitive environment. The labor/management relationship in a unionized workplace is adversarial and ultimately destructive. This divide extends into government and the general population and fosters national disunity and division. Unionization is an important contributing factor for much of the decline in employment in manufacturing in the US.
Employment standards legislation, including generous and broadly applied minimum wage laws, does work. That is the direction in which to go.
Businesses need a level playing field. Unions target businesses selectively, to interfere with and disrupt the normal competitive environment. The labor/management relationship in a unionized workplace is adversarial and ultimately destructive. This divide extends into government and the general population and fosters national disunity and division. Unionization is an important contributing factor for much of the decline in employment in manufacturing in the US.
Employment standards legislation, including generous and broadly applied minimum wage laws, does work. That is the direction in which to go.
4
Well, GBC1, your argument might make a little sense if it didn't contradict the data, the facts.
After WWII, unions were strong. And so was manufacturing and the economy in general. (If you want to raise the "Europe was Rubble Myth,". look at http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/capital21c/en/pdf/F1.1.pdf which shows that the output of Europe was about the same as the US in the Great Prosperity of 1946 - 1973).
Starting in 1973 but especially after 1981 unions began to wilt under the incessant attacks by business. And so did manufacturing.
Also look at Germany which has perhaps the most efficient manufacturing in the world. Unions are very strong. In fact, by law, large corporation must have unions representation on their boards of directors.
After WWII, unions were strong. And so was manufacturing and the economy in general. (If you want to raise the "Europe was Rubble Myth,". look at http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/capital21c/en/pdf/F1.1.pdf which shows that the output of Europe was about the same as the US in the Great Prosperity of 1946 - 1973).
Starting in 1973 but especially after 1981 unions began to wilt under the incessant attacks by business. And so did manufacturing.
Also look at Germany which has perhaps the most efficient manufacturing in the world. Unions are very strong. In fact, by law, large corporation must have unions representation on their boards of directors.
2
Give that talk in Germany. They have a very effective business-worker (union) partnerships and their economy is very strong.
2
Unfortunately for the American unemployed and low wage workers it looks like hopeless situation. The only way out seems to keep thriving and carry on for the next four years. In the meantime, they might pray to have a miracle of a second Franklyn Delano Roosevelt and an updated New Deal to create new jobs and set up an effective welfare state to help the transition from a job to another one. This is a social complex issue and America would need political will and brainy politicians and administrators to decide upon it first and afterwards implement it against the rough opposition of the conservatives. Good Luck and God bless America!
8
"In the past year, about the same number of people who recently lost jobs in those large retail outlets got jobs in transportation and warehousing". In this sentence is the great coming dislocation that we as a population are ignoring, self driving transportation. Already in Australia's Outback, sparsely populated, are Truck Trains, 5 trailers attached to a large super cab. Now they are self driven (with a driver in the cab) like our commercial airlines. But how much longer will they need a person in the cab? Mercedes Benz recently announced they have developed a safe and reliable self driving truck for $30,000 (less expensive than a driver and certainly allowed to drive beyond federal driving regulations. As an almost senior citizen I am looking forward to a self driven car that I will be able to order on my app and allow me to live independently after my driving days are gone (always have been a country rat and want to stay here). Cab drivers will be a thing of the past, Johnny Cab anyone?
4
Suppose you run a business. You make cars. You cut lawns. Are you going to hire more people, build more factories, or buy another mower, if you can't sell more cars or cut more lawns? It's true that people want a new car or their lawn cut, but they don't have enough money to pay for the car or the lawn service. Too many are out of work. Too many have low paying jobs.
It's not taxes or regulations that are holding the economy back. It is the lack of money on the part of those who would like to spend it. There are only two sources of money.
1. The Rich have a lot of money. They could afford to pay their workers more, build new factories, hire more people, BUT they are not going to do that until there are people who can buy more stuff.
2. The only other option is the federal government. It can print money. It can spend money. There are many worthwhile ways to do so. It can fix our roads and bridges, build a new power grid, give grants to the states to help with education, sponsor research, etc., etc., etc. Even simply giving money to poor people to buy food gets more money into the economy.
As a percentage of GDP our public debt is about 40% less than it was in 1946. From 1946 to 1973 we increased the debt in dollars by 75%. BUT we had prosperity. Real median household income surged 74%.
After WWI we had 10 years of balanced budget. We decreased the debt in dollars by 38%. This was followed by the worst economy in our history.
Those who don't learn from history are ...
It's not taxes or regulations that are holding the economy back. It is the lack of money on the part of those who would like to spend it. There are only two sources of money.
1. The Rich have a lot of money. They could afford to pay their workers more, build new factories, hire more people, BUT they are not going to do that until there are people who can buy more stuff.
2. The only other option is the federal government. It can print money. It can spend money. There are many worthwhile ways to do so. It can fix our roads and bridges, build a new power grid, give grants to the states to help with education, sponsor research, etc., etc., etc. Even simply giving money to poor people to buy food gets more money into the economy.
As a percentage of GDP our public debt is about 40% less than it was in 1946. From 1946 to 1973 we increased the debt in dollars by 75%. BUT we had prosperity. Real median household income surged 74%.
After WWI we had 10 years of balanced budget. We decreased the debt in dollars by 38%. This was followed by the worst economy in our history.
Those who don't learn from history are ...
24
"1. The Rich have a lot of money. They could afford to pay their workers more, build new factories, "
Factories are being built. But for the most part they are off-shore.
"2. The only other option is the federal government. It can print money."
And a large portion of that money will flow off-shore when imported for goods manufactured outside the US are purchased. And when more money is printed there is some inflation. Some folks are going to be hurt by that. But when you're into the macro-level you can't be concerned by that sort of collateral damage, can you?
Factories are being built. But for the most part they are off-shore.
"2. The only other option is the federal government. It can print money."
And a large portion of that money will flow off-shore when imported for goods manufactured outside the US are purchased. And when more money is printed there is some inflation. Some folks are going to be hurt by that. But when you're into the macro-level you can't be concerned by that sort of collateral damage, can you?
There's this little equation:
P = (MV)/S
where P is prices , M is the amount of money in the economy, V measures the frequency that money changes hands usefully, and S is the dollar amount of the amount of stuff, goods and services, we can produce in some time period.
A word on V. If the government gives Scrooge McDuck a Billion for advice on the comic book market, M increases by a Billion, but if Scrooge puts the bucks in his basement, and forgets about it, that doesn't affect P at all. That Billion has a V of 0. Also, if Scrooge lose a bet to Daddy Warbucks, and the Billion moves from Scrooge's basement to Daddy's, that is a change, but the V does not change because it is not a useful change. It doesn't affect commerce.
Inflationistas like jp cannot understand an equation with more than 2 variables. To them it looks like:
P = M.
You print more money, you debase the currency, prices go up. End of story. Of course this might happen if S and V remain constant, but in point of fact, the causes of most, if not all excessive inflations since WWI has been S getting too small--shortages, The anchovy harvest failed in 1972. There was a shortage of livestock feed. Then came the oil embargo. Prices rose.
With QE, M goes up, but the new money sits in the coffers of banks or chases itself in financial bets. It has a very low V. P rises only a little.
And there are plenty of jobs that cannot be exported--teaching, construction, service jobs of many types, etc., etc., etc.
P = (MV)/S
where P is prices , M is the amount of money in the economy, V measures the frequency that money changes hands usefully, and S is the dollar amount of the amount of stuff, goods and services, we can produce in some time period.
A word on V. If the government gives Scrooge McDuck a Billion for advice on the comic book market, M increases by a Billion, but if Scrooge puts the bucks in his basement, and forgets about it, that doesn't affect P at all. That Billion has a V of 0. Also, if Scrooge lose a bet to Daddy Warbucks, and the Billion moves from Scrooge's basement to Daddy's, that is a change, but the V does not change because it is not a useful change. It doesn't affect commerce.
Inflationistas like jp cannot understand an equation with more than 2 variables. To them it looks like:
P = M.
You print more money, you debase the currency, prices go up. End of story. Of course this might happen if S and V remain constant, but in point of fact, the causes of most, if not all excessive inflations since WWI has been S getting too small--shortages, The anchovy harvest failed in 1972. There was a shortage of livestock feed. Then came the oil embargo. Prices rose.
With QE, M goes up, but the new money sits in the coffers of banks or chases itself in financial bets. It has a very low V. P rises only a little.
And there are plenty of jobs that cannot be exported--teaching, construction, service jobs of many types, etc., etc., etc.
When government interferes with market forces, it always ends badly. There will always be a demand for consumer goods, how they are sold and delivered will always change.
Amazon now has a 36% market share of all on line sales. That store clerk job has been replaced with a small package delivery job, and in many cases it's a much better job.
Government is not always the answer, except to folks in this column. Large suburban malls are going away, Wal-Mart and FedEx are not.
And somehow the liberals want the government to create a new "safety net"?
Think before you write.
Amazon now has a 36% market share of all on line sales. That store clerk job has been replaced with a small package delivery job, and in many cases it's a much better job.
Government is not always the answer, except to folks in this column. Large suburban malls are going away, Wal-Mart and FedEx are not.
And somehow the liberals want the government to create a new "safety net"?
Think before you write.
3
You believe there's a 1 to 1 replacement ratio of retail workers to UPS/FedEx drivers? And on the eve of autonomous vehicle deployment?
1
"When government interferes with market forces, it always ends badly."
I hate to break it to you, but that is an ideology, not a fact. Even Adam Smith believed that the market needed to be regulated for its own good.
I hate to break it to you, but that is an ideology, not a fact. Even Adam Smith believed that the market needed to be regulated for its own good.
1
Retail isn't suffering because on-line purchasing is better. Retail is suffering because families consist of multiple workers putting in long hours, shuffling kids from daycare and sports and trying to fit managing their households into smaller and smaller windows of time.
We order online because we don't have time to shop, and the less we shop, the less they stock, and the more we have to order on line. Small stores, private stores, are gone.
The problem is that the jobs become centralized rather than distributed. All that empty space in red states? Workers have to leave it to get a job. No book stores, no shoe stores, few stores which sell clothes, even sporting goods and outdoors stores are pressured. So where will the people who live away from urban centers and Amazon warehouses work?
Centralization and consolidation depopulate rural places. All that misplaced anger in the heartland? It is not the result of Democrats ignoring them.
We order online because we don't have time to shop, and the less we shop, the less they stock, and the more we have to order on line. Small stores, private stores, are gone.
The problem is that the jobs become centralized rather than distributed. All that empty space in red states? Workers have to leave it to get a job. No book stores, no shoe stores, few stores which sell clothes, even sporting goods and outdoors stores are pressured. So where will the people who live away from urban centers and Amazon warehouses work?
Centralization and consolidation depopulate rural places. All that misplaced anger in the heartland? It is not the result of Democrats ignoring them.
30
Agree and as a former small store bricks and mortar and online retailer, I can tell you we got priced out of the game. Couldn't afford to compete with the big boxes and their low prices which they achieved by paying their wage slaves as little as possible. Has anyone found that customer service has really improved overall?
And honestly, even as manufacturing moved overseas so companies could reduce their labor costs, wholesale prices on goods continued to rise, even during the bad economic years following the financial meltdown. So who profited? Follow the money.
And honestly, even as manufacturing moved overseas so companies could reduce their labor costs, wholesale prices on goods continued to rise, even during the bad economic years following the financial meltdown. So who profited? Follow the money.
It is the result of politicians on both sides of the aisle being in bed with industry. For that reason (correlated to campaign finance), regulations that serve the public good are eliminated. Then, the environment, health, and human welfare are ignored. The result is a stalled economy for the many with huge human cost and a robust economy for the very, very few. The majority of the world's wealth is in the hands of a tiny number of people.
Understand that and nearly everything else falls into place.
Understand that and nearly everything else falls into place.
Have you shopped at a mall recently? Maybe it's generational, but the salespeople are so rude. Even if at stores where I'm clearly ready to spend money they don't interact with you and seem irritated if you touch anything. I used to love shopping but they make it an unpleasant experience. I'd much rather just order online and go to my friendly postman for returns. He seems to appreciate the business. The people at the retail stores seem so unhappy and angry. I'm a fool if I keep going to stores to get abused by the salespeople. It's a social contract and everyone is responsible but the stores, both employer and employees are just miserable.
133
I agree. The difference is likely generational. Remember when you could support a family working in retail? Gone are the days of Miracle on 34th Street. Macy's might not even be around much longer. Face it. You'd be upset too if you were working in a go-nowhere job for $9 an hour. Most companies don't even provide commission or profit sharing anymore. The boss will still track an employee's sales but they won't compensate the employee for it. And yes, it's really annoying to spend 9 hours a day reorganizing the same merchandise over and over and over again. I for one never want to see the inside of a dressing room again so long as I live.
1
You say both the employer and employees are miserable. How do you know the mind frame of the employer? The top brass at Macy's, are probably doing ok. As for the employees, maybe they wouldn't be so surly if they were being paid something approaching a living wage. Trying to get by in Boston on minimum wage pay must be pretty rough.
1
Sara I have experienced the same sullenness however I reach out and apply as much kindness as I can as these people are trying to get buy and support themselves in an increasingly hostile world. Kindness does work so I smile and chat them up just because I care. I also feel better. Besides it's fun to see the new styles and actually try clothes on and find out if they fit nicely. A smile goes a long way.
Who would have thought macro economics could be so complicated. The toughest decision a government can make is what constitutes a public good when it comes to employment. When does a little help from my friends become a handout for shiftless behavior?I feel the only idea worth trying is the guaranteed income idea. It is comparable to the Earned Income Tax Credit Perhaps the biggest problem with most administration is that the Cabinet level members never struggled. They are larded with Ivy degrees and connections. The biggest exception in this administration is Ben Carson. A kid from the hood makes good, but becomes the ultimate ladder puller upper. SAD!
2
Lets be realistic, as computing, robotics, and AI advance it will take fewer and fewer people working to meet all of the needs of all of the people. For example, at the turn of the 19th Century more then 90% of the population was involved in agriculture to feed 100% of the population. Today, thanks to agricultural and technological advances less then 1/2 percent of the population feeds the population.
Sure there will always be a need for some jobs but what do we do when we need only 10 or 20 percent of the population to provide all the goods and services needed for the entire population.
Unless we completely rethink our entire social, economic, and political systems everything we might do to deal with the changing job market will be little more then sticking our finger in a damn. So how we have to go from a profit-consumption-possession driven model to a humanistic values and survival driven model while still retaining the motivation for achievement.
Sure there will always be a need for some jobs but what do we do when we need only 10 or 20 percent of the population to provide all the goods and services needed for the entire population.
Unless we completely rethink our entire social, economic, and political systems everything we might do to deal with the changing job market will be little more then sticking our finger in a damn. So how we have to go from a profit-consumption-possession driven model to a humanistic values and survival driven model while still retaining the motivation for achievement.
17
Sticking our finger in a dam. Although a damn is what most people don't give.
2
In a capitalistic society jobs come and jobs go. That churn is part of the dynamism that replaces outdated ideas with new and hopefully better ones.
One can make a case that the loss of the retail sector to online commerce is an evolutionary step provided that we lived in a free market economy. We do not. Unfair advantages, monopolistic behavior, and government and society's inaction do not make for a level playing field.
But the real tragedy is that this country has failed its citizenry by no longer fully investing in public education. If we don't offer a way of retraining workers who lost their jobs like Germany does, then why should they we expect unemployed workers to be qualified to work in new industries?
This isn't just a governmental problem. Gone are the days when companies like IBM, DEC, and others invested heavily in educating their workforce. What we have now are throw away employees of the gig economy, and workers on H1B visas who can be exploited by their employers. The upcoming era of automation and AI is likely to be even more disruptive than anything we've seen yet. Perhaps as much as 50% of current jobs may be at risk.
We don't fund education, 50% of us don't read at a 9th grade level. We don't fund universal health, we don't fund pensions, we don't protect consumers, and we don't as a country plan for the future. We are stumbling around in the dark. Welcome to America folks, the world's tallest midget. Let's hope that there is nowhere to go but up.
One can make a case that the loss of the retail sector to online commerce is an evolutionary step provided that we lived in a free market economy. We do not. Unfair advantages, monopolistic behavior, and government and society's inaction do not make for a level playing field.
But the real tragedy is that this country has failed its citizenry by no longer fully investing in public education. If we don't offer a way of retraining workers who lost their jobs like Germany does, then why should they we expect unemployed workers to be qualified to work in new industries?
This isn't just a governmental problem. Gone are the days when companies like IBM, DEC, and others invested heavily in educating their workforce. What we have now are throw away employees of the gig economy, and workers on H1B visas who can be exploited by their employers. The upcoming era of automation and AI is likely to be even more disruptive than anything we've seen yet. Perhaps as much as 50% of current jobs may be at risk.
We don't fund education, 50% of us don't read at a 9th grade level. We don't fund universal health, we don't fund pensions, we don't protect consumers, and we don't as a country plan for the future. We are stumbling around in the dark. Welcome to America folks, the world's tallest midget. Let's hope that there is nowhere to go but up.
29
Tell Betsy DeVos. She is determined to end public education. She will keep the public funding but divert it to private entities. Today, the religious schools will benefit; tomorrow, they may be tossed aside for the absurd notion that everyone can attend Exter Academy on a voucher.
The radical right is determined to privatise all government functions, even the military. We know how well that worked for Rome.
The radical right is determined to privatise all government functions, even the military. We know how well that worked for Rome.
Another good example of the Dunning-Kruger effect that reigns in the Times editorial suite.
Short term action such as unemployment comp and moving assistance, can help but long term, better public schools and " real college" assistance is needed.
By real college, I don't mean the DeVos for profit kind but the good old fashioned accredited kind.
To get the most of the college experience, we need to stop the plan for bleeding the public school system to support private schools and for profit charters.
By real college, I don't mean the DeVos for profit kind but the good old fashioned accredited kind.
To get the most of the college experience, we need to stop the plan for bleeding the public school system to support private schools and for profit charters.
68
And, I would add - more community college training - We still need plumbers, welders, carpenters, mechanics, nurses, x-ray technicians, etc.
Excellent public school system coupled with a dynamic community college system and specialized training programs would create a competent workforce.
Excellent public school system coupled with a dynamic community college system and specialized training programs would create a competent workforce.
17
Back in the day, it was understood that not everyone was "college" material. That experience was meant to teach people how to think, how to reason, and if you came out with a degree that prepared for a specific job (teacher, scientific researcher, doctor, accountant), etc., it was a happy side benefit. However, many people were more satisfied working with their hands (the plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc.) and they received their training in apprenticeships on the job. Perhaps a rethinking of what it means to get a college degree is in order along with the terrible cost of obtaining that degree.
2
Retail has long depended on many part-time workers. In recent years, it is common to hold most employees just below the cut-off at which they are eligible for a stable schedule and for benefits like health coverage. The schedules of such workers are often unpredictable, changing week to week (not just what day, but even things like whether one is working days or doing stocking over night). In short, even in the less desirable service sector there is a clear hierarchy in which the few have stable jobs with benefits and chance for advancement while the many are treated poorly and kept living precariously with the treat that if they don't like it they can leave.
The question is how do we create a work environment where people earn a decent wage, can have a reasonable work-life balance, are offered basic benefits, and have some hope that hard work and loyalty will lead to advancement. The so-called "free market" seems disposed to simply use most people, then cast them aside. Is that what we as a society really want for our citizens?
The question is how do we create a work environment where people earn a decent wage, can have a reasonable work-life balance, are offered basic benefits, and have some hope that hard work and loyalty will lead to advancement. The so-called "free market" seems disposed to simply use most people, then cast them aside. Is that what we as a society really want for our citizens?
191
The contents of your second paragraph are not the government's business. Most of it isn't of any interest to employers either unless they wish to take on the outdated paternalism of a Milton Hershey.
"The question is how do we create a work environment where people earn a decent wage, can have a reasonable work-life balance, are offered basic benefits, and have some hope that hard work and loyalty will lead to advancement."
We might start voting our interests, but after the GOP assault on all things decent (since Reagan) that seems beyond our capabilities.
We might start voting our interests, but after the GOP assault on all things decent (since Reagan) that seems beyond our capabilities.
16
society does not care-increasingly its a dog eat dog struggle.
1
Overall retail trade employment (seasonally adjusted) has been going up almost without interruption since late 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. There was a small downturn in February and March's preliminary figures, just as there were small downturns in early 2014 and in mid-2012. But it is nothing like the absolute cratering in 2008-2009, or even the major slides in 2001-2003 and 1990-1992. So one can't help but wonder why we're seeing so much talk about retail employment now.
4
Thanks for that bit of rationality. To add to your message here is a quote from the Bureau of Labor website.
"Employment of retail sales workers is projected to grow 7 percent from 2014 to 2024, about as fast as the average for all occupations."
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm#tab-6
"Employment of retail sales workers is projected to grow 7 percent from 2014 to 2024, about as fast as the average for all occupations."
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/retail-sales-workers.htm#tab-6
1
Donald Trump told a lot of lies to a lot of people, but it was clear from early on that what he was going to do was what he is, in fact, doing: govern as a hard right Republican, just like the rest of them. The candidate who actually had a plan to help the struggling working class couldn't get her message heard over wall-to-wall coverage of Trump's antics, scandal-mongering directed at her, and the stupidity of false equivalencies when comparing what they had to say. It's all well and good to remind Trump of his campaign promises, but we know where that's going to get us. The party that's going to help those working class Trump voters is not the one they voted for; it's going to be up to the rest of us to bring Democratic majorities to state and federal governments and save the country, including them.
This editorial finishes by saying that the 'ways to help" are clear. Why doesn't the Times say what these clear ways are? The thrust of the editorial is that workers have lost their bargaining power. Well, how can they get that lost power back? Why not take your reasoning to its logical conclusion? Fear of the answer?
The overriding reason American workers of all types cannot defend themselves against globalization, automation and the general erosion of working conditions is that they face the marketplace alone as individuals. Unemployment is very low and all the pundits say that wage growth is about to accelerate because of a tight labor market but then, it doesn't. much to the befuddlement of the economists.
Collective bargaining is the key to wage growth and the defense of workers' standard of living. Come on New York Times. I know it's taboo, but spit it out. Supporting unionization is key to the survival of the diverse American working class.
The overriding reason American workers of all types cannot defend themselves against globalization, automation and the general erosion of working conditions is that they face the marketplace alone as individuals. Unemployment is very low and all the pundits say that wage growth is about to accelerate because of a tight labor market but then, it doesn't. much to the befuddlement of the economists.
Collective bargaining is the key to wage growth and the defense of workers' standard of living. Come on New York Times. I know it's taboo, but spit it out. Supporting unionization is key to the survival of the diverse American working class.
it was just the next round to the preverbal 'race to the bottom' - and as retail and manufacturing is connected in a way - that - where 'stuff' is 'still' made - also the selling of such 'stuff' works much better.
So there might be NO other solution - that US has to become a 'predominant producing country' (again) - as the times of being mainly a 'consuming country' led - in a very nasty ironic way to the race to the bottom.
So there might be NO other solution - that US has to become a 'predominant producing country' (again) - as the times of being mainly a 'consuming country' led - in a very nasty ironic way to the race to the bottom.
9
piece,
The world has been in overproduction for over fifty years. How is producing even more excess going to help? Did you ever hear the story of King Midas?
The world has been in overproduction for over fifty years. How is producing even more excess going to help? Did you ever hear the story of King Midas?
The main problem with all this changes of switching manufacturing to other countries or the preference of internet sales to retail stores is that it all happens so fast. There is not enough time for creating and adopting to new jobs.
It's almost grotesque that human-made progress is killing the life conditions of mankind. There's no wonder that people are longing for "the good ol' days" of the past and are falling prey to political exploiters like Trump or Marine Le Pen.
Philosophers have foreseen this development and have called it the "Self-Laceration" of mankind.
It's almost grotesque that human-made progress is killing the life conditions of mankind. There's no wonder that people are longing for "the good ol' days" of the past and are falling prey to political exploiters like Trump or Marine Le Pen.
Philosophers have foreseen this development and have called it the "Self-Laceration" of mankind.
34
Like many a single-cell organism in a science experiment, we are reaching the edge of our Petri dish after having lived in a rich environment and multiplied past the point of comfort. Like those single-cell organisms, we will not stop until we drown in our own waste.
I would say with the oceans and landfills reaching their capacity to absorb our waste; and with our infrastructure in tatters and our people idle, we are nearly there.
I would say with the oceans and landfills reaching their capacity to absorb our waste; and with our infrastructure in tatters and our people idle, we are nearly there.
1
We are now rapidly accelerating toward a sci-fi world where food is grown, buildings are constructed and both packages and people are delivered by machines. Our hyper-automated future can evolve into a paradise or a nightmare. Coming up with an entirely new version of some kind of capitalism/socialist hybrid is the only likely solution. Pure capitalism will reward only the most highly educated ten to twenty percent, whereas pure socialism could leave a largely unmotivated society in its wake. Government will be a critical tool in shaping our new working environment. A global labor force largely without work, will not tolerate government inaction. Work has always meant survival in the past. Whatever form it takes in the future will inevitably have much to do with formative legislation and it's related regulations. Much as unions were a result of the political environment during the industrial revolution, the new rights of robotic age workers are about to be forged via public demand. Libertarian idealists can't help but lose this fight. Their limited government theories won't put food in the mouths of millions of unemployed voters. As evidenced by the current degree of political upheaval we are already seeing, tolerance for anyone not seen working to solve the new problems of the majority will not last a millisecond. Trump's likely failure to live up to the promises he made to blue collar america is likely to make him a very early casualty of this new reality.
I haven't been to Paris since 2003, so I don't know if things are the same. I remember how each shopkeeper in Paris treated my purchases, no matter how insignificant. They folded and wrapped each thing as if I had purchased a $10,000 diamond ring! Throughout the city, the store employees were extremely attentive, helpful, polite, cheerful, and they made you feel glad to shop there. American retailers need to sell the shopping "experience" and not just merchandise.
People don't want unemployment benefits; they want jobs.
Why is no one even discussing a Job Guarantee Program?
Instead of paying people not to work, why can't we pay people to work in a public sector program until the private sector is willing to hire them again?
When people are unemployed for too long they "go bad". Perhaps that's unfair, but that's the way they are viewed by prospective employers.
Conservatives should like this, because we will not be paying people to sit around; we'll be paying them to work.
How are we going to pay for it?
First of all, we pay enormous societal costs when people are unemployed - not only in lost productivity, but in increased crime, drug addiction, social, family and work force degradation, etc.
Secondly, no one ever seems to ask that question when we want to go to war. Somehow we can always afford to waste unlimited amounts of money on the completely unproductive and wasteful project of war.
Thirdly, MMT has one answer to that question. However, many people find their answer too difficult to accept. They can't refute it, but it requires giving up too many dearly held beliefs for most people.
But even if we assume that we live in a fixed exchange rate environment, the benefits of the program would so far outweigh the relatively small costs, that it should clearly be done.
We should at least be talking about it.
Why is no one even discussing a Job Guarantee Program?
Instead of paying people not to work, why can't we pay people to work in a public sector program until the private sector is willing to hire them again?
When people are unemployed for too long they "go bad". Perhaps that's unfair, but that's the way they are viewed by prospective employers.
Conservatives should like this, because we will not be paying people to sit around; we'll be paying them to work.
How are we going to pay for it?
First of all, we pay enormous societal costs when people are unemployed - not only in lost productivity, but in increased crime, drug addiction, social, family and work force degradation, etc.
Secondly, no one ever seems to ask that question when we want to go to war. Somehow we can always afford to waste unlimited amounts of money on the completely unproductive and wasteful project of war.
Thirdly, MMT has one answer to that question. However, many people find their answer too difficult to accept. They can't refute it, but it requires giving up too many dearly held beliefs for most people.
But even if we assume that we live in a fixed exchange rate environment, the benefits of the program would so far outweigh the relatively small costs, that it should clearly be done.
We should at least be talking about it.
77
The conservatives all want people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. No money for education or retraining and in fact, they would like to cut all kinds of benefits. It's a Malthusian world for the Republicans.
Your logic assumes that conservatives want unemployed people to be alive at all. They don't. They just want unemployed, poor, sick people to die quietly and penniless in the gutter after signing over all of their assets to their wealthier betters, who were clearly given all that money by the Almighty Himself for unassailable reasons.
Which is why the very valid points you're making, don't ever make it to your TV channel. Ever wondered why that is?
Which is why the very valid points you're making, don't ever make it to your TV channel. Ever wondered why that is?
2
Strongly agree with John T. Eventually humans will be entirely useless in the "job market." We will be paid for meaningless attainments (such as points in video games or weight loss achievements). This is long term. Short and medium term, a small group of people will make a lot of money as their productivity goes through the roof (i.e. Those of us building robots and being very creative). Sadly, this probably require top 20th percentile intellect or creativity. Those requirements will only increase. In essence, if you don't have the talent and education to leverage the massive parallelism of the human brain, you will be replaced by AI.
So let's start the conversation about making work and guaranteeing income/healthcare to all, while exploring how humans and machines can merge.
So let's start the conversation about making work and guaranteeing income/healthcare to all, while exploring how humans and machines can merge.
1
"Those jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back"--Bruce Springsteen, My Hometown.
I'm SURE Mr Trump has a plan. Right after the "Repeal and Replace" plan. Maybe Ted Nugent, Sara Palin and Kid Rock, intellectual and economic luminaries all, can help him with some soundbites.
Fail to plan? Plan to fail.
A loser.
I'm SURE Mr Trump has a plan. Right after the "Repeal and Replace" plan. Maybe Ted Nugent, Sara Palin and Kid Rock, intellectual and economic luminaries all, can help him with some soundbites.
Fail to plan? Plan to fail.
A loser.
133
Warehouse jobs will be roboticized long before we have self-driving vehicles. Right now humans only linger there among the machines because they still possess superior hand-eye and tactile coordination. I hope Jeff Bezos is concurrently working on robot consumers because soon no animate creature will be able to afford his wares.
There is no one save for Jimmy Carter in the US that is more trustworthy than the Governor of the Bank of England or the Conference Board of Canada. Mark Carney told us 15 million of Britain's 31 million jobs would disappear in the next two decades because of automation. The Conference Board of Canada say 40% of Canadian jobs will disappear in the next 15 years again due to automation.
The Governor tells us where the jobs are going to come from. Unlike Paul Ryan the people who work in collecting Canada's data and the people who work for the Bank of England know how to cipher and understand statistical probability .
While we consider what the new economy will look like we know the productivity of machines will put us more into overproduction. (In Canada we are guessing a guaranteed annual income is a necessity)
I know the NYT and I know its aims for truth but even as surviving to the next election is job one someone must start telling the truth to Americans. The days of a wage economy are coming to an end. Tesla is worth more than Ford and America is celebrating coal and pipelines.
I have met thousands of Americans and I know hundreds. Most are hardworking honest and caring. They will respond well to the truth, they know they are being lied to. Whether the lie is told out of kindness or meant totally to deceive it is still a lie. The world has changed and same old same old is longer an option.
If the free press is going to go down at least go down telling the truth.
The Governor tells us where the jobs are going to come from. Unlike Paul Ryan the people who work in collecting Canada's data and the people who work for the Bank of England know how to cipher and understand statistical probability .
While we consider what the new economy will look like we know the productivity of machines will put us more into overproduction. (In Canada we are guessing a guaranteed annual income is a necessity)
I know the NYT and I know its aims for truth but even as surviving to the next election is job one someone must start telling the truth to Americans. The days of a wage economy are coming to an end. Tesla is worth more than Ford and America is celebrating coal and pipelines.
I have met thousands of Americans and I know hundreds. Most are hardworking honest and caring. They will respond well to the truth, they know they are being lied to. Whether the lie is told out of kindness or meant totally to deceive it is still a lie. The world has changed and same old same old is longer an option.
If the free press is going to go down at least go down telling the truth.
196
Add this kind of Canadian planning to universal single payer healthcare, and we might just be able to weather this particular storm. Freedom from the collateral damage of a changing economy would give individuals and families the stability to retrain, start businesses, go to school, etc.
My fear is that Americans value the false god of autonomy too much, mistaking it for "freedom". And our nation will continue to decline because we have forgotten the emphasis on community so clearly articulated in the opening words of the Constitution, which give our nation its purpose: "We the People, in order to establish a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this constitution...."
My fear is that Americans value the false god of autonomy too much, mistaking it for "freedom". And our nation will continue to decline because we have forgotten the emphasis on community so clearly articulated in the opening words of the Constitution, which give our nation its purpose: "We the People, in order to establish a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this constitution...."
4
Right on and thank you for the last line!
1
Worse than being lied to about the future of work, there is and has been no plan in place for the millions of American workers who are now displaced and will be displaced in the future. As complaints roll in from generation to generation about welfare and food stamps and lazy malingering people, there is less and less opportunity for work. This is not good for people, their mental and physical health, nor is it good for the country: the social fabric, tied to work and worth, is rent.
Humans have finally rendered themselves useless. it is frightening to think what everyone will do with their broke and broken spare time.
Humans have finally rendered themselves useless. it is frightening to think what everyone will do with their broke and broken spare time.
2
You are right on, it is intentional policy choices that make the lives of service workers so difficult. There is no intrinsic reason that factory jobs should pay more than daycare. In other countries, pre-school teachers are well paid.
50
Mr. Trump has made his living by lying and cheating. He campaigned as the champion of labor but he governs as the champion of unfettered, predatory capitalism. This is just one more betrayal of his adoring base. Expect nothing more. This is one bad dude!
62
The Editorial Board again shows poor math skills when it claims low worker pay is caused by high executive pay. If the CEO of Walmart had his current pay evenly distributed to Walmart employees their pay would increase by $10 per year.
Retail has low pay because there is a large supply of employees who do not have skills required in higher paying positions but sufficient skills for retail.
Policies that limit the growth of this population or even reduce its size is how their per person wages will be increased. That could be through better education and training as well as restricting people with similar limited job skills from entering the US .
Retail has low pay because there is a large supply of employees who do not have skills required in higher paying positions but sufficient skills for retail.
Policies that limit the growth of this population or even reduce its size is how their per person wages will be increased. That could be through better education and training as well as restricting people with similar limited job skills from entering the US .
5
Not pay only but stock options and benefits
No company can survive without its workers, who need to be paid a living wage. A human being's LIFE is worth a living wage. ALL work is valuable. ALL human beings are valuable -- not just the rich and not just those with "skills." BTW, it does take SKILL to work retail. Try it some time.
3
sold out to the lowest bidder - -
with only a moment's "thought"
for the short term 'gain' - -
without a care in the world for all
of the ultimate consequences of such behaviors.
still,
we all have too much stuff,
and mother-earth is the less for it all.
somewhere in the currently fog-shroded future,
a different way will be adapted . .
as the cockroaches will lead us to the way of it.
progress, this?
it is much too early to know.
2
I know--all of the laid off retail workers can get a job in a coal mine.
Erosion of the middle class is nearly complete. At one time, a job in the service sector would supplement family income, most of which came from a solid manufacturing or professional job with a decent salary and benefits. The extra income went for things like a vacation or college tuition for the kids.
These days, many of the manufacturing and professional jobs are gone. Part-time jobs in the service sector pay at or near the minimum wage and benefits consist of a discounted meal during a 15-minute break or a coveted "employee discount" on merchandise purchased from the store.
The result is the huge income and asset gap between the wealthy and the working poor, and the idea that we are approaching an economic event horizon--that point at which we can no longer save the middle class from the heavy gravitational pull of permanent poverty.
Erosion of the middle class is nearly complete. At one time, a job in the service sector would supplement family income, most of which came from a solid manufacturing or professional job with a decent salary and benefits. The extra income went for things like a vacation or college tuition for the kids.
These days, many of the manufacturing and professional jobs are gone. Part-time jobs in the service sector pay at or near the minimum wage and benefits consist of a discounted meal during a 15-minute break or a coveted "employee discount" on merchandise purchased from the store.
The result is the huge income and asset gap between the wealthy and the working poor, and the idea that we are approaching an economic event horizon--that point at which we can no longer save the middle class from the heavy gravitational pull of permanent poverty.
73
When average people can no longer feed themselves, they exercise their last option: violence, which eventually erupts into Civil War II. By that time, they won't have anything left to lose.
Hopefully not World War III, though even that could happen any day now by accident.
Said William Shirer in his WWII classic "Rise and fall of the third Reich": "The next world war will be started by mad little men pressing electronic buttons. No-one will win such a war." The buttons have been around a while, and we now have the mad little men.
Hopefully not World War III, though even that could happen any day now by accident.
Said William Shirer in his WWII classic "Rise and fall of the third Reich": "The next world war will be started by mad little men pressing electronic buttons. No-one will win such a war." The buttons have been around a while, and we now have the mad little men.
They'll be too weak from hunger to fight the massive war machinery at the hands of the super rich.
3
This is an important editorial that clearly addresses much of what the government needs to do, but the assumption that this technological wave will mimic that of the industrial revolution seems presumptuous. There is no guarantee that the much greater velocity of the current wave isn't already vastly reducing the need for low-skill labor- the global data is unclear and controversial.
As Richard Luettgen states, high skill jobs are next to be replaced. That means that the steep price in time and tuition to master many professions will be rendered useless in the near future. That particular crisis will likely be required to create the political will to deal effectively with this looming (or existing) catastrophe. We cannot assume that even a huge effort to re-educate these professionals will be enough to maintain adequate employment levels. Nor can we predict the life-span of the next wave of jobs.
If it isn't enough, the world will essentially belong to the owners of the robots, but they will have no one to sell products to.
As Richard Luettgen states, high skill jobs are next to be replaced. That means that the steep price in time and tuition to master many professions will be rendered useless in the near future. That particular crisis will likely be required to create the political will to deal effectively with this looming (or existing) catastrophe. We cannot assume that even a huge effort to re-educate these professionals will be enough to maintain adequate employment levels. Nor can we predict the life-span of the next wave of jobs.
If it isn't enough, the world will essentially belong to the owners of the robots, but they will have no one to sell products to.
19
"they will have no one to sell products to."
And they will never dare to walk freely in the public square. They are confined to their ghettos of wealth and privilege, gilded prisons like Mar-a-Loco.
And they will never dare to walk freely in the public square. They are confined to their ghettos of wealth and privilege, gilded prisons like Mar-a-Loco.
"The lack of efficient public transportation, child care, fair work schedules and paid sick days virtually guarantee one employment setback after another for workers who are already struggling to get ahead". -- This is a list of the main things that are responsible for the sickness of the US society. Perhaps some prefer shopping online, but there are many who like to see the three-dimensional merchandise before buying it.
17
Why is it government's job to effectively manage inevitable change? What has happen to individual accountability and the freedom that comes along with it? Isn't more important for a government to provide fair laws and a justice system that really works to enforce them. My recollection of why we revolted against the crown was we wanted a nation of individuals that could free to pursue our own ambitions.
Taking things to the extreme, imagine an economy where all goods and services are produced by robots or computers. If the human residents within that economy have no income from anywhere, no one will be able to consume any goods and services. But wait - someone or something has to produce the robots, computers, and software to operate them. Robots and computers again? I believe there is a natural limit to all of this - there will not be any ongoing production unless there are employed humans with incomes to consume the production. Maybe this extremely automated economy leads to extreme inequality if society allows it.
Most of the remaining jobs will be lost once the people of the wealthy countries wake up to the fact that they consume a lot more than they need. Once they cut back to the essentials, the economy will collapse, because the model of unending economic growth is a ponzi scheme.
22
The sheer amount of "stuff" that we have in the US is astounding. For the most part I'd say that people here could just shop for food and items like toilet paper and toothpaste and manage to avoid buying anything else for many years. I personally have been downsizing for years and am working towards owning pretty much what I can fit in my car. Anything I need other than consumables I can just pick up from someone else discarding them for the most part(still do buy my underwear new though!). I'm definitely not helping the retail sector!
2
I admire your idealism, but I doubt the rich people will ever cut back on anything.
1
Well, I seldom buy anything else but food and household goods. After paying bills (no credit cards), buying medications, my Metro card, there is nothing left. A few weeks ago I bought a new blouse for Easter-- and I still feel guilty. It is a beautiful blouse and I haven't bought new clothes, other than underwear and t-shirts, for years.
3
I am as concerned about employment trends as the next person. And I am disgusted with the treatment of workers by management in all industries. The well-documented profits above people MBA mentality permeates the country, resulting in well-documented damage on many levels.
And I understand the potential for technology to disrupt employment markets.
I don't want to sound like a complete scold, but honestly, it seems that our national pastime became shopping over the past 25 years or so. So. Many. Stores. With. So. Much. Stuff. There's a part of me that thinks the recent decline in the retail sector is at least in part a natural winnowing out due to massive oversupply.
I heard recently that millennials are opting for spending money on experiences rather than stuff. Good for them.
And I understand the potential for technology to disrupt employment markets.
I don't want to sound like a complete scold, but honestly, it seems that our national pastime became shopping over the past 25 years or so. So. Many. Stores. With. So. Much. Stuff. There's a part of me that thinks the recent decline in the retail sector is at least in part a natural winnowing out due to massive oversupply.
I heard recently that millennials are opting for spending money on experiences rather than stuff. Good for them.
for the 1st time I mostly agree with Richard Luettgen. Technology will make much of human labor obsolete. However Richard is wrong that it will be human innovation that finds new WORK for us to do, as is Mark Tomason that we have an UNLIMITED capacity to consume/produce stuff. The world will have to become more socialist in nature with Universal Basic Income. This will be a difficult transition as it is so alien to our bootstrapping U.S. values as capitalists and workers. The big question is what will we do with our time? Global hoarders of free stuff? Virtual reality denizens voluntarily plugged into the "Matrix"? Or will we be able to change our values and elevate social engagement, the arts, philosophy and human harmony to unimaginable heights?
19
"As Retail Goes, So Goes the Nation"....
Sadly, this is true. So, rather than being a nation of savers and builders, we are a nation replete with wasteful consumerism and a "throw away" mentality. Worse yet, most of this is financed (both publicly and privately) with debt.
As our infrastructure ages and many of our schools are embarrassingly insufficient, it seems we are simultaneously moving back into the coal age. There seems no accounting for our waste and greed except to see where all that money ended up. Everything for sale, yet nothing cherished.
Sadly, this is true. So, rather than being a nation of savers and builders, we are a nation replete with wasteful consumerism and a "throw away" mentality. Worse yet, most of this is financed (both publicly and privately) with debt.
As our infrastructure ages and many of our schools are embarrassingly insufficient, it seems we are simultaneously moving back into the coal age. There seems no accounting for our waste and greed except to see where all that money ended up. Everything for sale, yet nothing cherished.
10
Three are three key points:
1. The middle class are the "consumers", and any tax cuts they receive would mostly be spent in the local economy. The Wealthy as "accumulators" and, because they already have enough money, on avenge to buy whatever they need, any tax cuts receive just into bank and investment accounts, and do not boost retail sales.
2. Small businesses tend to be labor-intense, and any increases in revenue--from consumer spending--cause the hiring of additional workers--more jobs. Large businesses, on the other hand, use tax cuts for stock n=buy-backs, and investment in new technology. Large companies would not necessarily add to consumer spending.
3. Consumer spending is roughly 60% of the economy. So, added ":discretionary income" for the Middle Class boosts consumer spending, and when small businesses hire workers that, in turn, adds to the economy.
What Donald Trump will probably do--skew the larger cuts to the high-end of there income range, and to large companies. And those taxpayers, with their deep pockets make campaign contributions to the GOP Candidates.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1. The middle class are the "consumers", and any tax cuts they receive would mostly be spent in the local economy. The Wealthy as "accumulators" and, because they already have enough money, on avenge to buy whatever they need, any tax cuts receive just into bank and investment accounts, and do not boost retail sales.
2. Small businesses tend to be labor-intense, and any increases in revenue--from consumer spending--cause the hiring of additional workers--more jobs. Large businesses, on the other hand, use tax cuts for stock n=buy-backs, and investment in new technology. Large companies would not necessarily add to consumer spending.
3. Consumer spending is roughly 60% of the economy. So, added ":discretionary income" for the Middle Class boosts consumer spending, and when small businesses hire workers that, in turn, adds to the economy.
What Donald Trump will probably do--skew the larger cuts to the high-end of there income range, and to large companies. And those taxpayers, with their deep pockets make campaign contributions to the GOP Candidates.
https://thetruthoncommonsense.com
8
I don't have the figures but they are probably available. I am guessing that the level of automation involved in a venture like Amazon is probably VERY high and the number of retail workers vs the number of items sold is probably very low compared to brick and mortar retail.
This will of course shrink the number of jobs and lower prices to the consumer.
This is the classic challenge facing our generation. When work becomes automated and the "means of production", the machines, are owned by capitalists we face exactly the probably Marx said we would face.
This will of course shrink the number of jobs and lower prices to the consumer.
This is the classic challenge facing our generation. When work becomes automated and the "means of production", the machines, are owned by capitalists we face exactly the probably Marx said we would face.
5
'Now it's his turn to help them.'
How can you expect such an obligation from a man with zero capacity for empathy and respect for honouring his word?
To echo another 'deprived' Republican, Mitt Romney :'go ask your parents for the money to go to college, borrow it from them, etc'.
Such thoughts emphasize the total disconnect between the oligarchs who are Americans' overlords and their hapless, uneducated supporters whose ignorance prevents them from ever envisioning a fairer and more just society.
The disappearance of retail jobs translates to one less employment opportunity for students working their way through college. But I forget, just hit up the parents for the loot, everything problem has got its easy solution in Trumpland...
How can you expect such an obligation from a man with zero capacity for empathy and respect for honouring his word?
To echo another 'deprived' Republican, Mitt Romney :'go ask your parents for the money to go to college, borrow it from them, etc'.
Such thoughts emphasize the total disconnect between the oligarchs who are Americans' overlords and their hapless, uneducated supporters whose ignorance prevents them from ever envisioning a fairer and more just society.
The disappearance of retail jobs translates to one less employment opportunity for students working their way through college. But I forget, just hit up the parents for the loot, everything problem has got its easy solution in Trumpland...
Since the retail is going "on-line", can we have all politics and elections go on-line? Then we do not need jokers who call themselves as electoral college since their votes are mandated by election results of each state. And if the elections can be on line, we can hold it on any day of the week including Sunday. OK, one problem - how do we ensure the security of the process from hacking - internal and external? May be not such a good idea?
1
The greater the push for an increased minimum wage, the greater the incentive for companies to replace increasingly more expensive no-skill / low-skill minimum wage workers with increasingly less expensive and more efficient automation. The end result will be more and more unemployed ex-minimum wage workers.
1
Slave wages create just as much poverty as no wages. Poverty is poverty.
3
Spot on. If the crucial jobs are in transporting goods, warehousing, recycling, home caregiving, and perennial "plum positions" like hamburger-flipping, then those are the jobs that ought to be paid at least middle class wages, because those are the jobs we can't do without. As the Board pointed out, the fact that they aren't is not accidental, but calculated not only to maximize profits for employers and salaries for upper management, but to make sure that workers know their places are valued at about the same level as file cabinets in society. How to communicate that to the American citizenry, how to unite a populace that seems to revel in splitting into multiple factions, to at least recognize the real problem and its origins, and not be attracted to pie-in-the-sky populist messages that provide scapegoats, not solutions: that is the baffling question. Perhaps we have to hit some sort of bottom (but where and how horrible will it be for Americans) before we take it upon ourselves to elect lawmakers at all levels and national leaders who actually believe in all of us and don't just pay lip service to the greatness of our country and its people.
6
The government is currently acting as if all change is good, a view that made sense in 1945 or 1960. If you combine this with policies that have encouraged high wages for the few and with lowered wages in many occupations, we have the beginnings of a disaster. The market doesn't solve these kinds of problems and our leaders act as if it isn't within their job description.
4
Low paid service sector workers are a political force to be reckoned with either now or later. The later it happens the more calamitous it will be. They announced their frustration with the status quo in what they though was loud and clear terms. They elected Mr. Trump, some explicitly stating their reason as an intent to disrupt the system. So? The status quo (the swamp) remains filled with healthy alligators.
Nothing that Mr. Trump has included in his policy will in any way help low paid service sector employees. Better to fulfill this campaign promise now rather than later.
Nothing that Mr. Trump has included in his policy will in any way help low paid service sector employees. Better to fulfill this campaign promise now rather than later.
3
the fact that if i run into a problem while trying to buy online with amazon and i get stuck i can use a telephone to get help from a real person. with retail outlets, not counting grocery stores there is no one to answer a phone or assist a customer. it is a new world for sure.
2
There's a lot of fuzzy thinking here. The second part of this piece says there should be a stronger safety net and says unions haven't been good to service workers, by which you mean retail. These are truisms.
The first part says because there is online shopping that has stimulated warehouse and trucking jobs then online shopping is to blame, not computers, for the collapse of retail in suburban malls. Online = computers!
What I've been hearing on the ground is that malls, owned by large national investors, are raising store rent and stores are closing or moving. Nothing to do with customers.
Other pressures: That people don't want malls at all but go to strip centers where they can get one item and leave, that the mix in stores is all fashion, and that changes in workwear mean less need to shop often. Spandex is to women's clothing what drip dry shirts were to men's. Younger people prefer cities and suburbs are declining. In the recession people relied on discount stores and liked them. Thrift stores are cool. And anyone over size 14 won't find clothes in stock and must shop online. And tech has made inventory and cashier jobs require less time, so fewer workers are needed.
There are lots of reasons, but rising rents is what NYT should look at. Ask why now?
The first part says because there is online shopping that has stimulated warehouse and trucking jobs then online shopping is to blame, not computers, for the collapse of retail in suburban malls. Online = computers!
What I've been hearing on the ground is that malls, owned by large national investors, are raising store rent and stores are closing or moving. Nothing to do with customers.
Other pressures: That people don't want malls at all but go to strip centers where they can get one item and leave, that the mix in stores is all fashion, and that changes in workwear mean less need to shop often. Spandex is to women's clothing what drip dry shirts were to men's. Younger people prefer cities and suburbs are declining. In the recession people relied on discount stores and liked them. Thrift stores are cool. And anyone over size 14 won't find clothes in stock and must shop online. And tech has made inventory and cashier jobs require less time, so fewer workers are needed.
There are lots of reasons, but rising rents is what NYT should look at. Ask why now?
We better prepare for a world where human labor is not much needed anymore soon. Trucking, warehousing, driving, all these professions are on their way out and with it employment opportunities for the masses. What do these people do when there are no more jobs? This article cites jobs in transportation to make up for lost retail jobs. For how long? Any responsible politician and sociologist would rack their brains to find a solution but not here in the US. The class war is in full swing, the poor are led to hate the poorer, comic heroes and skin-head dramas are served non-stop as enlightenment and hope.
The Finish government is experimenting with a base salary that everyone gets, Europeans tried the 35 hr work week,free healthcare and education. Solutions are needed very soon. What do we do with perpetual mass unemployment? We don't have affordable healthcare now, free education is unheard of and developing a plan how society looks like in 30 years is sheer blasphemy. But what are the different outcomes? A Dickensian world where the poor are in abject misery corralled by vicious security forces? Or a utopia where everyone lives in luxury and has time to study the classics? Or a raging civil war a la Terminator or The Matrix?
Ancient Rome had free grain and bread for the masses and entertained them with games in the circus. Slaves performed most chores. That at least kept the idle masses from rioting unless the grain ships didn't come. What are we going to do?
The Finish government is experimenting with a base salary that everyone gets, Europeans tried the 35 hr work week,free healthcare and education. Solutions are needed very soon. What do we do with perpetual mass unemployment? We don't have affordable healthcare now, free education is unheard of and developing a plan how society looks like in 30 years is sheer blasphemy. But what are the different outcomes? A Dickensian world where the poor are in abject misery corralled by vicious security forces? Or a utopia where everyone lives in luxury and has time to study the classics? Or a raging civil war a la Terminator or The Matrix?
Ancient Rome had free grain and bread for the masses and entertained them with games in the circus. Slaves performed most chores. That at least kept the idle masses from rioting unless the grain ships didn't come. What are we going to do?
4
"We have become the tool of our tools." Henry David Thoreau
3
Pretty much agree with Bruce. But here is the conundrum. I live in a neighborhood within the city of Atlanta that is a shoppers paradise. Two major malls within walking distance of each other. And about every other kind of retail store imaginable a short distance away. Yesterday I did a little shopping at REI. Every single salesperson made eye contact and asked if they could offer assistance.
My wife does most of the serious shopping and I'm not making this up but her experience of late is, the majority of sales folks she comes in contact with are helpful and knowledgeable about the merchandise. And it's not just the upscale stores, BBBY, Target, Macy's, Home Depot, etc.to name a few.
So why here? Don't have an answer as to why but shopping here is not drudgery. We both have experienced this change in the last few months. Could it be that folks are a lot more worried these days, so try to be a little nicer to others. Wish I knew the answer but it is a lot more pleasant out there.
My wife does most of the serious shopping and I'm not making this up but her experience of late is, the majority of sales folks she comes in contact with are helpful and knowledgeable about the merchandise. And it's not just the upscale stores, BBBY, Target, Macy's, Home Depot, etc.to name a few.
So why here? Don't have an answer as to why but shopping here is not drudgery. We both have experienced this change in the last few months. Could it be that folks are a lot more worried these days, so try to be a little nicer to others. Wish I knew the answer but it is a lot more pleasant out there.
2
Having just returned from Germany and a frequent visitor for over 48 years I am constantly reminded of the great divide between these cultures. Having been in retailing for the bulk of my career I was always impressed with level of competence of the German worker at all levels of retailing;a highly skilled,knowledgeable workforce, educated and trained for this career. Recently conversed with a check out clerk at a Aldi Store and asked about her wages,she earns 16 Euros an hour but has universal health care and state subsidized free education for her children and five weeks vacation, she seemed quite content. Contrast that with our $10 an hour probably working two jobs workers, taxed and distracted and one wonders why?
Yet another hand-waving article denying that the sky is about to come crashing down on not just unregulated capitalism, but capitalism generally.
There is not a single job regularly taken by the working class that cannot be partially or fully automated. As transport and other service jobs are automated as manufacturing jobs were, are, and will continue to be, the entire bottom half of the economy is going to fall out. Computer scientists and engineers have been screaming from the hilltops that there literally will not be enough jobs for the general population in 20-50 years.
While many people support the notion of a UBI, a UBI in an automated society is dangerous because wealth and therefore power lie entirely in the upper class who own the now mostly automated stores and businesses. In the long term we do seriously have to consider a society in which widespread public ownership of the means of production is in place to ensure that the UBI equivalent is never threatened and that government is not under the thrall of mega-corporations.
There is not a single job regularly taken by the working class that cannot be partially or fully automated. As transport and other service jobs are automated as manufacturing jobs were, are, and will continue to be, the entire bottom half of the economy is going to fall out. Computer scientists and engineers have been screaming from the hilltops that there literally will not be enough jobs for the general population in 20-50 years.
While many people support the notion of a UBI, a UBI in an automated society is dangerous because wealth and therefore power lie entirely in the upper class who own the now mostly automated stores and businesses. In the long term we do seriously have to consider a society in which widespread public ownership of the means of production is in place to ensure that the UBI equivalent is never threatened and that government is not under the thrall of mega-corporations.
5
And, so it goes, first agriculture, then manufacturing, now retail, and there will be others.
Technology will continue to kill private sector jobs at rate far greater than private sector growth can offset them
Governments must become job creators: Infrastructure, housing, health care, education, recreation. Anything that a machine or robot can't do.
Technology will continue to kill private sector jobs at rate far greater than private sector growth can offset them
Governments must become job creators: Infrastructure, housing, health care, education, recreation. Anything that a machine or robot can't do.
4
You will never get the support of the wealthy hoarders such as President Trump by appealing to their humanity. They are sub-human and heartless. Your general discussion regarding the importance of a supportive safety net to give a sustainable society is spot on.
It is time for the down trodden middle class to stand up to the elite and demand that the elite pay their fare share of the cost of maintaining a productive society. This means new tax policies, revisiting our large defense department expenditures, and putting all people to work at their fullest capability regardless of their 'disabilities'.
Every one contributes to society and everyone gets a benefit from society.
It is time for the down trodden middle class to stand up to the elite and demand that the elite pay their fare share of the cost of maintaining a productive society. This means new tax policies, revisiting our large defense department expenditures, and putting all people to work at their fullest capability regardless of their 'disabilities'.
Every one contributes to society and everyone gets a benefit from society.
12
This piece suggests that the same number who lost their "brick and mortar" retail jobs were hired in new transportation and warehouse jobs--which makes sense given the growth of "online" sales "fulfilled" out of warehouses. But technology will replace at least half of commercial trucking jobs in the next 10 years. Warehouse bots seem like a perfect fit for Amazon. Logistics and finance jobs of college-educated, white-collar corporate workers are being made redundant by computer algorithms and real-time data.
High-end stores offer service, but they can't employ everyone anymore than Mercedes, BMW and Range Rover dealerships can.
Then, this piece closes with the mandatory, bland statement that we must strengthen the safety net for those who lose their jobs and create new, well-paying jobs. May I insist that these jobs be interesting as well!
A few weeks ago I read an article which reported that recently-arrived refugees are being hired as quickly as they arrive for relatively low-skilled manufacturing jobs because Americans can't pass drug tests and eon't show up for work regularly and on time.
High-end stores offer service, but they can't employ everyone anymore than Mercedes, BMW and Range Rover dealerships can.
Then, this piece closes with the mandatory, bland statement that we must strengthen the safety net for those who lose their jobs and create new, well-paying jobs. May I insist that these jobs be interesting as well!
A few weeks ago I read an article which reported that recently-arrived refugees are being hired as quickly as they arrive for relatively low-skilled manufacturing jobs because Americans can't pass drug tests and eon't show up for work regularly and on time.
4
As with most of trump's campaign lies, the jobs issue is no different. Trump does not care for/about anyone that cannot afford the $200,000 entry fee for Mar a lago, the Ivanka $10,000 wrist bauble, or rent for an office in the trump tower.
Hopefully it's possible for congress to initiate firing procedures via the 25th amendment when it's been shown that virtually EVERYTHING coming out of trump's mouth is a lie. Sounds like perjury to me, and would set a great precedent for future presidents and politicians to adhere to.
Hopefully it's possible for congress to initiate firing procedures via the 25th amendment when it's been shown that virtually EVERYTHING coming out of trump's mouth is a lie. Sounds like perjury to me, and would set a great precedent for future presidents and politicians to adhere to.
6
You betcha. You've never seen jobs like trump's going to get for all the laid off retail workers There will be millions of the best, most high paying jobs imaginable.
Just like all those wonderful jobs he found on day one for the unemployed coal miners right after he rid the government of lobbyists and bankers.
You can count on it.
Just like all those wonderful jobs he found on day one for the unemployed coal miners right after he rid the government of lobbyists and bankers.
You can count on it.
7
The Editorial ignores the obvious: U.S.-style extremist capitalism is irreversible. The system is rigged in favour of an oligarch-elite that gets wealthier through innovation while the rest of the population gets laid off and fights over the scraps of low paying jobs. The elite have brains and/or inherited wealth that are largely self-perpetuating. The oligarchs set the agenda, make the laws through judges approved by agenda-driven congressmen/senators and execute them through politically indebted and power hungry Administrations. (So much for the much vaunted "separation of powers").
The body tasked with oversight (the media) is a joke, with the occasional belated 'Mea Culpas' substituting for preemptive, investigative journalism. (I am still waiting for a major NYT Editorial designating Saudi Arabia as the world's major cause of global Islamic Extremism, but am not holding my breath: Too many personal and commercial interests involved).
People Power is a joke. The oligarchs have already transformed the nation into a Police State containing the world's largest number of incarcerated citizens. And there is always a war somewhere for the President to rely on when the population gets restless. All that's missing is for the gladiator populace to scream "Nos Morituri Te Salutamos" in homage to Caesar (No, Mr. Trump, I'm not referring to a casino).
The rot really set in in 1980 with Reaganomics. And it is indeed irreversible.
The body tasked with oversight (the media) is a joke, with the occasional belated 'Mea Culpas' substituting for preemptive, investigative journalism. (I am still waiting for a major NYT Editorial designating Saudi Arabia as the world's major cause of global Islamic Extremism, but am not holding my breath: Too many personal and commercial interests involved).
People Power is a joke. The oligarchs have already transformed the nation into a Police State containing the world's largest number of incarcerated citizens. And there is always a war somewhere for the President to rely on when the population gets restless. All that's missing is for the gladiator populace to scream "Nos Morituri Te Salutamos" in homage to Caesar (No, Mr. Trump, I'm not referring to a casino).
The rot really set in in 1980 with Reaganomics. And it is indeed irreversible.
15
"A joke on the streets of Moscow these days: 'Everything the Communists told us about communism was a complete and utter lie. Unfortunately, everything the Communists told us about capitalism turned out to be true.' " -John Nellis, World Bank
3
Trump serves his ego, family and class first and foremost. He throws crumbs to the benighted masses that voted for him and still support him. It's cognitive dissonance on steroids by his supporters among the working class and rural communities.
The 'common good' is not a concept these elitists now in charge understand---and forget social justice, even though it (social justice) is the necessary foundation stone for any true democratic nation.
As the SCOTUS lurches even farther to the Right with the addition of Gorsuch and Congress is a sham, the administration with a shooting-from-the-hip, uninformed approach to all matters foreign and domestic leaves many, and soon maybe most Americans, to fend for themselves in a dystopia of libertarian social Darwinism.
The 'common good' is not a concept these elitists now in charge understand---and forget social justice, even though it (social justice) is the necessary foundation stone for any true democratic nation.
As the SCOTUS lurches even farther to the Right with the addition of Gorsuch and Congress is a sham, the administration with a shooting-from-the-hip, uninformed approach to all matters foreign and domestic leaves many, and soon maybe most Americans, to fend for themselves in a dystopia of libertarian social Darwinism.
3
We need to start thinking longer term. Specifically, when computers become sentient, what will become of humans? This used to be the realm of science fiction, but as this article points out, we are starting to see the results of smarter and smarter machines. We are also seeing an accelerating trend. Some predict this transition will be complete by 2035.
So here are some questions:
1. Why would an employer hire a human when a machine will do the same job, work 24x7, never get sick, and never form a union?
2. The military can certainly fill its ranks with these machines, but should they be given morals? War is immoral by its very nature.
3. If we call them sentient androids, do they have rights under our Constitution?
4. Can these beings own property? Can they marry? Can they marry a human?
5. Given that they'd live 10,000 years, what's a prison sentence of five years to them?
We are going to see impacts in disciplines of religion, economics, warfare, medicine, science, and everything else for that matter. As a species, we've got to be ready. If we don't however, we must be prepared to step aside for evolution to jump to Silicon and we will be left living in zoos (the same as we treat apes today).
So here are some questions:
1. Why would an employer hire a human when a machine will do the same job, work 24x7, never get sick, and never form a union?
2. The military can certainly fill its ranks with these machines, but should they be given morals? War is immoral by its very nature.
3. If we call them sentient androids, do they have rights under our Constitution?
4. Can these beings own property? Can they marry? Can they marry a human?
5. Given that they'd live 10,000 years, what's a prison sentence of five years to them?
We are going to see impacts in disciplines of religion, economics, warfare, medicine, science, and everything else for that matter. As a species, we've got to be ready. If we don't however, we must be prepared to step aside for evolution to jump to Silicon and we will be left living in zoos (the same as we treat apes today).
2
Warehouses no not need hundreds of people to pick orders, machines have been doing this since 1999. So it is a bit more than naive to think retail workers can move from the brick and mortar store to the warehouse. Transportation as a place for the displaced is another pipe dream. Self driving vehicles are closer reality than we want to believe. One day people will wake up and realize trains are much more efficient than trucks for long distances. Self checkouts, automated harvesters, robotic cleaners and mowers will cut into more jobs.
We need to wake up and realize the technology does indeed reduce the number of jobs. This means we need to start reducing the number of children we choose to have because many of them will be lucky to have a job. What you say? Who's going to make all of this technology and babysit it? The highest educated but lowest paid workers that can be found on the planet. Read, not Americans.
Technology is a wonderful thing and we have better lices because of it. However, we must live in reality and that is a consumption based economy with unlimited growth is unsustainable. We need to severely control population growth and create a different economic model that focuses on conservation (literal definition) of resources.
We need to wake up and realize the technology does indeed reduce the number of jobs. This means we need to start reducing the number of children we choose to have because many of them will be lucky to have a job. What you say? Who's going to make all of this technology and babysit it? The highest educated but lowest paid workers that can be found on the planet. Read, not Americans.
Technology is a wonderful thing and we have better lices because of it. However, we must live in reality and that is a consumption based economy with unlimited growth is unsustainable. We need to severely control population growth and create a different economic model that focuses on conservation (literal definition) of resources.
5
The demise of suburban malls is a welcome development. These malls are ugly. They are a contributing factor to the sprawl that has created the Zombieland of suburban America. They are ecologically unsustainable and a blight on the landscape. Bemoaning the retail jobs that go with them is of the same order of shortsightedness and selfishness as the demand of the coal miners to get back their jobs and the rising seas be damned! Retail jobs still exist but now they are concentrated in high-end luxury malls, brand-name outlets and specialty downtown shops. These jobs require better training, better presentation and the ability to handle customers. Retail workers should be encouraged to explore these new opportunities.
3
The safety net and healthcare must be portable to allow people the freedom to change jobs, go to school, start a family and start a family, to name a few things that would help Americans enormously. Stop the blindness of right wing ideology that failed us for the last 36 years.
4
portable, and affordable...
3
Trump is never going to help anyone but Trump.
Trump cynically used people like coal miners in low-wage fading industries, lying to them to get elected. Hillary wasn't much better although I believe she had concerns about the fading middle-class - she just had no plans or ideas to help them.
Trump was born to wealth and had a father that gave him 1 million $ to start a business then secretly ferreted $$ to him to try to keep him out of bankrupting his casinos. Trump has no clue what it's like to try to find a job - any job - to take care of yourself. Trump lived off his father's money and when he was in business himself used to stiff his workers and declare bankruptcy repeatedly to keep himself afloat.
Trump & his family are now monetizing his presidency in flagrant disregard of ethical requirements and norms that have protected the Office of the President for generations.
To believe Trump cares about people in retail sales is ridiculous.
In Trump's peevish mind, these people are 'losers.' There will never be any help or concern from Trump.
Trump cynically used people like coal miners in low-wage fading industries, lying to them to get elected. Hillary wasn't much better although I believe she had concerns about the fading middle-class - she just had no plans or ideas to help them.
Trump was born to wealth and had a father that gave him 1 million $ to start a business then secretly ferreted $$ to him to try to keep him out of bankrupting his casinos. Trump has no clue what it's like to try to find a job - any job - to take care of yourself. Trump lived off his father's money and when he was in business himself used to stiff his workers and declare bankruptcy repeatedly to keep himself afloat.
Trump & his family are now monetizing his presidency in flagrant disregard of ethical requirements and norms that have protected the Office of the President for generations.
To believe Trump cares about people in retail sales is ridiculous.
In Trump's peevish mind, these people are 'losers.' There will never be any help or concern from Trump.
Marl Cuban predicted on TV that robots will change the medical
profession by reducing the need for doctors. He also predicted
drug stores will disappear. The economic picture for workers
is grim because of this new economic revolution.
profession by reducing the need for doctors. He also predicted
drug stores will disappear. The economic picture for workers
is grim because of this new economic revolution.
1
"President Trump won by appealing to these voters. Now it’s his turn to help them."
What a punchline! The fools in Wisconsin, Pa., and Michigan and apathetic non-voters will soon learn a bitter lesson.
It's not clear who or what they hate more, government, women, minorities, but their future is as real as the rising sun: Trump will throw them an anchor as they drown, then laugh at their gullibility
I might too.
What a punchline! The fools in Wisconsin, Pa., and Michigan and apathetic non-voters will soon learn a bitter lesson.
It's not clear who or what they hate more, government, women, minorities, but their future is as real as the rising sun: Trump will throw them an anchor as they drown, then laugh at their gullibility
I might too.
13
The future is "Localization" or selective Globalization. Amazing technologies now must be diverted to local communities to better uitilize local energy, food and geographical resources, freeing them to leave a smaller carbon foot-print locally while providing for most needs in a way that reestablishes the human connection with Nature. Buckminster Fuller predicted this future in the 1950's...it will come to pass as technology, in step with human cognitve progress, cannot be stopped.
2
The current POTUS has convinced millions that he has a magic formula to restore stable good paying jobs. The President's supporters have been badly fooled by the same old voodoo economics story. Cut taxes on the rich and end regulation and the buffalo will comeback.
We need entirely different thinking about how to run a post industrial economy, but now that thinking will be delayed at least four years.
Sad
We need entirely different thinking about how to run a post industrial economy, but now that thinking will be delayed at least four years.
Sad
3
Does anyone really believe Trump and his cronies plan on making lives better for the underprivileged? This would mean reducing their own proits and wealth, which is how people like Teump define and value themselves. Why do so many American voter reduse to see that?
4
"Now it's his [Trump's] turn to help them." Don't hold your breath, either with Trump or the GOP Congress.
1
A couple of comments - Unions have lost their pull because they stopped being a benefit for the members and started enriching themselves and their officers. That is why union membership is below 10% everywhere except government. It wouldn't be even that high except for "exclusive bargaining" clauses in most contracts. That is why when given a free choice, people overwhelmingly vote with their feet and leave unions.
It is possible for small business to compete successfully with the big box and on line stores. You are not going to win on price, you have to win on knowledge, service and the shopping experience. Businesses have to 'provide value' to the customer that they can't get on line. That is done by being experts at your products and services, providing solutions to customers problems and personal interactions with customers. You have to be interested in their story, be willing to help them solve their problem and be open to alternative ways of reaching their goal, to McGyver a solution if necessary. Give them a shopping experience that can't get online: "Hi! Welcome back. How can we help you today?"
There will be those customers who shop only on price, but if you are good, there will also be those who say "Please tell me you have/can do this, don't send me to the big box!"
It is possible for small business to compete successfully with the big box and on line stores. You are not going to win on price, you have to win on knowledge, service and the shopping experience. Businesses have to 'provide value' to the customer that they can't get on line. That is done by being experts at your products and services, providing solutions to customers problems and personal interactions with customers. You have to be interested in their story, be willing to help them solve their problem and be open to alternative ways of reaching their goal, to McGyver a solution if necessary. Give them a shopping experience that can't get online: "Hi! Welcome back. How can we help you today?"
There will be those customers who shop only on price, but if you are good, there will also be those who say "Please tell me you have/can do this, don't send me to the big box!"
2
Go to https://www.unionfacts.com/employees/AFL-CIO. The head of the AFL - CIO earns less than $500,000 which is a pittance compared to the heads of even medium sized corporations. The CEO of Expedia had compensation of $96,400,000.
Union membership is down because of the relentless war on unions waged by business and their minions, the Republicans. For example, "right to work" laws which allow deadbeats to enjoy the benefits of union membership such as higher wages without paying for them.
Union membership is down because of the relentless war on unions waged by business and their minions, the Republicans. For example, "right to work" laws which allow deadbeats to enjoy the benefits of union membership such as higher wages without paying for them.
4
Please try not to be so naive. Mr. Trumka's stated salary is for his job as union head. He is also on the board of the pension fund for which he is paid, various other union offices for which he is paid, and then there is his chauffeured limo, expense account and the board of various corporations that also pay him. I have no problem with him making a decent wage, but his total compensation is in the millions not the $500,000 stated.
If unions were in fact a benefit to their members, then right to work laws would not be needed to force membership. People would want to join and not have to be forced. The fact is that when right to work laws are enacted, union membership, which is now voluntary in those states, plummets.
I think some counterweight to management is needed, but unions as they are now run are not it. The quicker they die off, the sooner we will see a new, more responsive organization formed to benefit the members not enrich the union officers.
If unions were in fact a benefit to their members, then right to work laws would not be needed to force membership. People would want to join and not have to be forced. The fact is that when right to work laws are enacted, union membership, which is now voluntary in those states, plummets.
I think some counterweight to management is needed, but unions as they are now run are not it. The quicker they die off, the sooner we will see a new, more responsive organization formed to benefit the members not enrich the union officers.
1
So you think Mr. Trumka is paid as well as CEO's? You are the one who is naïve. Let's see the figures.
As for union membership decreasing in RtW states, of course that is the case since then unions do not have the funds to fight management. And that is not the only thing that plummets in those states. Wages also plummet.
As for union membership decreasing in RtW states, of course that is the case since then unions do not have the funds to fight management. And that is not the only thing that plummets in those states. Wages also plummet.
3
No worries. The fact that the billionaire class, along with their millionaire sycophants are doing so very well, we the people, can vote ourselves a national income and make them pay for it! The chances are better for that than with getting Mexico to pay for a wall.
2
Our politicians don't pay the slightest bit of attention to what the people want and need.
2
The de-malling of America has been going on for at least three years. What's changed is the pace. From small rolling stones before, to crashing boulders now, the inevitable result when financial cans can no longer be kicked down road by Sears, Macy's and co.
The issue is much larger than unemployment benefits for the laid-off. A few weeks back, the NYT wrote an essay about a town in France that's already died a comparable death, although in their case it was about disappearing bars and cafes. But essentially, the issues are similar, small towns are toast. The only exceptions are university towns or those near cargo hubs of the UPS and FedEx variety.
There is, however, a way to breathe new life into these towns, which is to make them telecommute-friendly. And that requires policies from the top, both government and private sector. After all, the question that should come to mind whenever we read about high rents in Frisco, or a plane packed like sardines in Chicago is: why on earth are you there, and where on earth are you going and for what reason? Why can't someone sit in Idaho, attend a meeting in Mountain View CA, then go to evening school in Boston? Why aren't you just sitting there, doing something, instead of getting carried out of a plane?
If policies drilled that question down, they would come up with both incentives and penalties that hasten the trickling-down of their jobs to small-town America. Let's hope the NYT leads the charge. Who ya gonna move?
The issue is much larger than unemployment benefits for the laid-off. A few weeks back, the NYT wrote an essay about a town in France that's already died a comparable death, although in their case it was about disappearing bars and cafes. But essentially, the issues are similar, small towns are toast. The only exceptions are university towns or those near cargo hubs of the UPS and FedEx variety.
There is, however, a way to breathe new life into these towns, which is to make them telecommute-friendly. And that requires policies from the top, both government and private sector. After all, the question that should come to mind whenever we read about high rents in Frisco, or a plane packed like sardines in Chicago is: why on earth are you there, and where on earth are you going and for what reason? Why can't someone sit in Idaho, attend a meeting in Mountain View CA, then go to evening school in Boston? Why aren't you just sitting there, doing something, instead of getting carried out of a plane?
If policies drilled that question down, they would come up with both incentives and penalties that hasten the trickling-down of their jobs to small-town America. Let's hope the NYT leads the charge. Who ya gonna move?
3
I feel that the reason telecommuting is so slow to grow in the USA is that rural communities still do not have adequate connections to the internet. When I was living in a rural area in the USA, connection to the internet cost me over $60 a month for 6GB for a single computer, and was extremely slow usually no more than two bars. Here where I live in France, also in a rural community, my broadband internet, including Wifi for the entire house, basic television and cellphone together cost about $90 a month, compared with my total cost in the USA of $170. Apparently, only 50% of the USA has broadband.
4
"The de-malling of America has been going on for at least three years. What's changed is the pace."
And good riddance. To create malls, developers bulldozed God knows how many acres of woods and marshes, helping to wreck whole ecosystems throughout America. Malls, cookie-cutter ugly, took the place of small-town shops, those Mom-and-Pop stores whose demise we love to decry, leaving great swaths of lovely Main Streets boarded up and derelict. They encouraged the use of cars; all across the country, black-top parking lots stare back at the sky and say, "We've won."
The jobs lost because malls are losing are the same jobs lost when malls were winning.
But the internet is another story.
And good riddance. To create malls, developers bulldozed God knows how many acres of woods and marshes, helping to wreck whole ecosystems throughout America. Malls, cookie-cutter ugly, took the place of small-town shops, those Mom-and-Pop stores whose demise we love to decry, leaving great swaths of lovely Main Streets boarded up and derelict. They encouraged the use of cars; all across the country, black-top parking lots stare back at the sky and say, "We've won."
The jobs lost because malls are losing are the same jobs lost when malls were winning.
But the internet is another story.
4
I thought that the headline from the EB that cheap consumer goods from China was loosing appeal and life would improve. No such luck...? Nevertheless, retail is sinking in the hinterlands regardless of the cause and keeping a Sears store open in Podunk, Nowhere, never made much sense. Next, Trump will figure out how to close the same number of Post Offices' in rural America to help pay for the Tax cut he wants for business and the wealthy. He might figure out how to stop electricity and water in the Tennessee Valley as another government waste project for the same reasons. Regardless, if you're a small town rural bumpkin now is the time to leave "nowhere" and find a coastal city as everything in middle America is rusting and eroding away.
1
Waiting for Trump to take his turn helping workers is like waiting for Bill O'Reilly to turn the other cheek - it isn't going to happen.
3
But, he won't help! I bet the majority of his "resort workers" are minimum wage!!
3
The government needs to effectively manage inevitable change for the greater good???? When has that ever happened in the last fifty years. I defy you to name one example. Just one. The people losing their jobs, their communities,their futures need answers now....today. Not next week,not next month, not next year. Now. Yet there was not one suggestion, not one answer, not one idea in this editorial to solve the crisis that is suffocating the working class in America. Not one. And you wonder why Democrats have been getting trounced in elections the past four years? This is embarrassing.
1
Bernie had ideas - -but the NYTimes and the DNC ignored him. Now we have Trump.
4
"Now it's his turn to help them." This I gotta see.
3
I think the headline is more correct than the article. I spent most of my adult life in retail, as a sales associate in small family owned businesses, department stores, and the owned my own shop for 14 years, employing many people in sales, hospitality, accounting, advertising. I even went back for a short stint at Bloomingdale's home store two years ago for the holidays. I do not think the writer understands the fundamental shift this makes in our society. Employment was always available for me in retail, and while we sometimes complained about pay, the pay could be quite good. Selling tabletop I could make about $25.00 an hour. The loss of these jobs is cataclysmic. At every stage in my life I could make enough to get by and to supplement other jobs, during college, while raising children. And the work was tiring on one's feet, but social, and often used one's knowledge of sales systems and products. No these jobs will not be replaces by one's filling boxes in wear houses and driving deliveries. The way of life which was suited to the "customer" is ending. I believe the new "consumer" has less power and will ultimately be more limited in choices and buying power. Why? The vertical integration of retail and now the vertical control of the online marketplace. The "customer" was king. Today's consumer will see his/her choices and competition waning. This will be a fact of the monopolistic control evolving in our retail markets. Is this undemocratic? Yes.
326
I always can depend on the people who have actually worked in the locale of an article's subject to have the spot-on comment. On customer service, I believe Nordstrom setting the standard for customer service. I remember the days when returning something was akin to the Spanish Inquisition, or a root canal. I remember a story--probably urban legend, but fun anyway--of a Nordstrom sales person taking back a set of tires even though they didn't sell tires.
1
It is so undemocratic, it is a feature of communism. Yes, folks, whether the monopoly is a corporation or a government makes no difference to the end-user who has to settle for whatever is being offered at whatever price is being asked.
Is this what we want? If it isn't, you had better start electing people who are pro-regulation, or we will all be controlled by one or two companies. You know what that is like. It is like only having a choice between Verizon and Comcast. The only difference is the name; the h**l of dealing with them is the same.
Is this what we want? If it isn't, you had better start electing people who are pro-regulation, or we will all be controlled by one or two companies. You know what that is like. It is like only having a choice between Verizon and Comcast. The only difference is the name; the h**l of dealing with them is the same.
1
True--think flying United. Your payment for a seat entitles you to exactly what?
2
This article seems a bit like someone shouting to close the barn door a week after the horses escaped. The online shopping phenomenon has been with us and growing for about 20 years, and the numbers are all with the online companies. Why do you think that the car dealership associations are hellbent on making it illegal for Elon Musk to sell you and I a Tesla from a website? Salespeople are just another thing that the internet has made obsolete. As the country is currently organized, it is only those with with strong and well funded lobbyists and political clout who will be spared the, uh, disruption, and that, sadly, does not describe most of those laid off from Sears or Macy's.
228
Perhaps you could talk to your progressive neighbors across the Bay? Appeal to their humanity which is purported to be abundant in the city by the bay.
The income tax preparers (for data which the IRS already has), the insurance industry (for the 15-25% "overhead"), COMCAST (for its increasingly ineffective and expensive service). Some things to get rid of after retail employees, car dealers and long-distance truck drivers disappear.
The reason AliBabba is the biggest company in the world is that it can deliver products on the same day they are ordered. I work for an overnight firm and I can foresee a very different business model, already successful overseas, coming soon to a country near you. Amazon, the American AliBabba will be making some big moves in the coming year. Imagine all those brick and mortar stores becoming regional warehouses for products most often requested. Imagine a skeleton workforce of delivery people supplemented by self employed Uber-like drivers who will deliver packages whenever the direction and timing is right. I laughed at people in my profession worrying about drones, but this, sounds to me like a plausible business model and, therefore, a cause for worry. On the flipside, if the government can provide universal healthcare, I can see where this could be a win win. To save capitalism you might have to accept a little socialism.
265
Wait until the driverless cars come online. Then you won't even need Uber drivers.
3
since the Koch brothers will never accept socialism imagine all those warehouses in flames.
1
Er, Rick, I ordered a watch though AliBabba on AliExpress on 3/28. I still have not got it.
2
The class war is over. The rich have clearly won.
500
In part but really, technology has won. Or at least it is winning and appears poised to keep winning, backed by capital markets and investors (who are mostly rich or institutional).
2
Actually plenty of middle class people and upper middle class people also voted for Trump. BTW we have also outsourced the clothing industry is that OK? You might say "sweat shops, but they were jobs and BTW easily brought back. These are very low tech. But clothing is very well made and lasts foreve-- jeans get better the more they are worn. My oldest/best pair are 30 years old. The shoe industry could come back. Tariffs on these goods, when imported. Fabric can be produced here. Forget coal. If people can sell the products of their production online sans middle man, they should be able to increase their income.
dear bornindaeb, so simple and perfectly stated. thank you.
2
"But contrary to popular perception ... create jobless future." Technology's primary function has historically been to cut costs of production in specific branches of production or to increase the profit rate to keep up with competition. These dynamics are always independent of the good will of capitalists and their objective results impoverish workers. Airbnb, Uber, or similar digitally managed companies are popular examples of this trend.
Workers only tool to counter this trend is to unionize and fight for better working conditions including wages and health care benefits. History shows it works.
In regards to technology's role in decreasing wages to workers, the exception to the rule is the postwar period that ended in the late 60s. We need to remember that the period 1939-1945 saw a massive destruction of capital (human lives to begin with which is the main source of capital creation). From the 70s onwards technology has continued to play traditional role. Don't blame technology (and don't a fetish of it either). Look at the role it plays in capital competition.
Workers only tool to counter this trend is to unionize and fight for better working conditions including wages and health care benefits. History shows it works.
In regards to technology's role in decreasing wages to workers, the exception to the rule is the postwar period that ended in the late 60s. We need to remember that the period 1939-1945 saw a massive destruction of capital (human lives to begin with which is the main source of capital creation). From the 70s onwards technology has continued to play traditional role. Don't blame technology (and don't a fetish of it either). Look at the role it plays in capital competition.
8
Meant to write and don't make a fetish of it.
In regards to productivity, new technological innovations do increase it in absolute terms. However, the latest wave (cybernetics) does not increase it as much as the previous ones in relation to the combustion engine or the technology (power generated by steam) that propelled the Industrial Revolution. This partly explains the current stagnation and the lack of investment (as opposed to giving money back to shareholders). The digital revolution ran out of steam.
In regards to productivity, new technological innovations do increase it in absolute terms. However, the latest wave (cybernetics) does not increase it as much as the previous ones in relation to the combustion engine or the technology (power generated by steam) that propelled the Industrial Revolution. This partly explains the current stagnation and the lack of investment (as opposed to giving money back to shareholders). The digital revolution ran out of steam.
1
Low-wage work does not support the same level of consumption as higher-wage work. People with vast incomes invest much of their income, and much of their consumption is not of mass-produced goods but rather handmade goods made by highly skilled artisans and craftsmen whose output is like what artists produce.
With most consumers lacking much disposable income, the economy shrinks even though the industries and companies that serve the wealthy will expand. With the shrinkage of the economy, there is less demand for low-wage workers and more competition among them for the remaining jobs (for which they may be vastly overqualified).
Robots are the new slaves, and they are ideal slaves in that they do not revolt or consume more than what is required to keep them operating. Mankind will find itself divided into those who own these new slaves (usually by owning stock in companies that produce using robots) and those who must compete with the new slaves. It usually takes a couple of decades to program a person to do much of anything, so replacing people with robots is much cheaper than replacing them with the next generation of people.
In a market economy the invisible hand will get rid of them; this is already happening. We need to develop a new sort of social organization in which the market will play only a limited and controlled role. We did this for professional sports, where competition is carefully managed to keep the sport interesting.
With most consumers lacking much disposable income, the economy shrinks even though the industries and companies that serve the wealthy will expand. With the shrinkage of the economy, there is less demand for low-wage workers and more competition among them for the remaining jobs (for which they may be vastly overqualified).
Robots are the new slaves, and they are ideal slaves in that they do not revolt or consume more than what is required to keep them operating. Mankind will find itself divided into those who own these new slaves (usually by owning stock in companies that produce using robots) and those who must compete with the new slaves. It usually takes a couple of decades to program a person to do much of anything, so replacing people with robots is much cheaper than replacing them with the next generation of people.
In a market economy the invisible hand will get rid of them; this is already happening. We need to develop a new sort of social organization in which the market will play only a limited and controlled role. We did this for professional sports, where competition is carefully managed to keep the sport interesting.
22
A hypotethical repalcement of human labor by robots has a limit. Robots do not produce value, only human labor does. In a paradoxical twist, an entire production by robots will decrease the profit to uncompetitive levels. Furthermore, there would not be buyers for this production. Crisis will ensue.
Professional sports are played by humans. Robots could not do it. Luddite fears (or dreams) are not realizable. Machines will serve the profit up to a point. After that they become a hindrance. Wars are used to correct that excess. I do agree with you that the system is irrational in the way it operates and humans are currently the slaves despite the technological rationalization of current organization of production and consumption. Time to realize that
Professional sports are played by humans. Robots could not do it. Luddite fears (or dreams) are not realizable. Machines will serve the profit up to a point. After that they become a hindrance. Wars are used to correct that excess. I do agree with you that the system is irrational in the way it operates and humans are currently the slaves despite the technological rationalization of current organization of production and consumption. Time to realize that
2
That is silly. The robots that assemble cars create value. The robots that perform surgery produce value. If they didn't produce value why would anyone buy them?
2
Machines only transmit value. They don't create any. What do you think is the basis for globalization? Cheap labor with same or more advanced machines.
1
Bad premise: blaming technology is not misdirected.
I’ve been reading and listening to comfortable assurances for years that technology won’t obsolesce labor, it simply will change its nature; and yet more assurances that there are many types of labor along the whole spectrum of relative sophistication that technology won’t and can’t obsolesce.
All of it bunk.
Technology advances in waves, platforms built on the platforms that preceded, each layer substantially more sophisticated than what went before. Take the part of healthcare supplied by physicians. A very high percentage of collective physician work is consumed by diagnosis and prescription. These are precisely the disciplines most vulnerable to software and databases of knowledge. Today’s versions of such automation, which are advancing rapidly in sophistication, are used as productivity tools by doctors; but tomorrow diagnosis and prescription will be fully automated – when they become as reliable as gas furnaces, doctors won’t even be needed to administer what is prescribed, unless we artificially protect their labor the way we still do in some places with the form-juggling that legal assistants actually do but lawyers must approve. Poof: up to 80% of physician labor obsolesced. Eventually, perhaps 100%.
I’ve been reading and listening to comfortable assurances for years that technology won’t obsolesce labor, it simply will change its nature; and yet more assurances that there are many types of labor along the whole spectrum of relative sophistication that technology won’t and can’t obsolesce.
All of it bunk.
Technology advances in waves, platforms built on the platforms that preceded, each layer substantially more sophisticated than what went before. Take the part of healthcare supplied by physicians. A very high percentage of collective physician work is consumed by diagnosis and prescription. These are precisely the disciplines most vulnerable to software and databases of knowledge. Today’s versions of such automation, which are advancing rapidly in sophistication, are used as productivity tools by doctors; but tomorrow diagnosis and prescription will be fully automated – when they become as reliable as gas furnaces, doctors won’t even be needed to administer what is prescribed, unless we artificially protect their labor the way we still do in some places with the form-juggling that legal assistants actually do but lawyers must approve. Poof: up to 80% of physician labor obsolesced. Eventually, perhaps 100%.
15
Surgeons – simple technology that makes precise incisions or sutures them, used again as productivity aids under the supervision of specialists, can become automated surgeons given time and the same experiential databases. Apply this arc to all fields of human endeavor: it’s not just the turners of soil and nuts on bolts who are vulnerable. We ALL are.
It may be that as many new jobs in warehousing and transportation were created as bricks-&-mortar retail sales jobs were lost, as a consequence of the increasing penetration of Internet sales. However, those warehousing jobs increasingly are being automated too, with sophisticated pick-and-pack systems; and as for transportation, eventually Google, Intel, the car companies or someone else will get the driverless conveyance right. As a general matter, it’s been some time since automation has created as many or more permanent jobs than it has destroyed; and it’s very unlikely that it ever will again.
In the end, the means of supporting our teeming global multitudes as all this plays out necessarily will be dramatically different from today’s. Undoubtedly, we will need to redefine safety nets and perhaps even provide work for those whose normal labor has been obsolesced. But we kid ourselves that if we do all this thoughtlessly we won’t destroy what has defined our most successful societies: individual independence, relative freedom from a didactic state and the incentives that drive innovation.
It may be that as many new jobs in warehousing and transportation were created as bricks-&-mortar retail sales jobs were lost, as a consequence of the increasing penetration of Internet sales. However, those warehousing jobs increasingly are being automated too, with sophisticated pick-and-pack systems; and as for transportation, eventually Google, Intel, the car companies or someone else will get the driverless conveyance right. As a general matter, it’s been some time since automation has created as many or more permanent jobs than it has destroyed; and it’s very unlikely that it ever will again.
In the end, the means of supporting our teeming global multitudes as all this plays out necessarily will be dramatically different from today’s. Undoubtedly, we will need to redefine safety nets and perhaps even provide work for those whose normal labor has been obsolesced. But we kid ourselves that if we do all this thoughtlessly we won’t destroy what has defined our most successful societies: individual independence, relative freedom from a didactic state and the incentives that drive innovation.
26
Richard -- There is a mistaken assumption underlying your position. Automation increases productivity. That does not mean we need fewer workers, it means we get more from their work.
There is an unlimited capacity to absorb the product of work. We can all live better.
This is not a Limits to Growth issue. Just as we can produce more with the same labor, we can produce more from the same resources.
Of course that requires economics that share out the product, higher wages. The US has done that, historically, compared to elsewhere. We still could, but right now we don't. That is because our politics have become corrupted by the same forces that distorted it in the same way during the Robber Baron era --
that is when we had our first round of labor violence. I hope it does not come to that again, but it could.
There is an unlimited capacity to absorb the product of work. We can all live better.
This is not a Limits to Growth issue. Just as we can produce more with the same labor, we can produce more from the same resources.
Of course that requires economics that share out the product, higher wages. The US has done that, historically, compared to elsewhere. We still could, but right now we don't. That is because our politics have become corrupted by the same forces that distorted it in the same way during the Robber Baron era --
that is when we had our first round of labor violence. I hope it does not come to that again, but it could.
95
Right now we are letting the invisible hand of the market implement the changes brought about by technology. The invisible hand will deal with an oversupply of people as it deals with any other surpluses. The Hand is very clever but essentially thoughtless, like a beehive or an anthill.
If we start making the world less habitable, the logical individual response is to make enough money to buy a place in whatever habitable area is left (even if making this money involves activities that reduce the habitability of the world in general). This is the logic of the invisible hand, and it is no longer good enough; we have gotten too powerful for our own good. We are the sorcerer's apprentice, our brooms are out of control, and the sorcerer is gone.
If we start making the world less habitable, the logical individual response is to make enough money to buy a place in whatever habitable area is left (even if making this money involves activities that reduce the habitability of the world in general). This is the logic of the invisible hand, and it is no longer good enough; we have gotten too powerful for our own good. We are the sorcerer's apprentice, our brooms are out of control, and the sorcerer is gone.
25
The world is going to look like a ghost town pretty soon, where only affluence gets you human contact.
Think how many places, from toll booths to subway stations to police on a beat, are no longer routinely populated. And how that's the goal.
Expensive apartment buildings in New York that used to be full of people--and life--are now mostly dark because the apartments are investments for people who are never there.
And block after block has closed store fronts because landlords jack up the rent and don't mind waiting forever for an ideal tenant.
A world, a bock, a neighborhood, a building without people is a cold place.
Think how many places, from toll booths to subway stations to police on a beat, are no longer routinely populated. And how that's the goal.
Expensive apartment buildings in New York that used to be full of people--and life--are now mostly dark because the apartments are investments for people who are never there.
And block after block has closed store fronts because landlords jack up the rent and don't mind waiting forever for an ideal tenant.
A world, a bock, a neighborhood, a building without people is a cold place.
245
Precisely!
What is the real elephant in the room is the increasing chasm between what used to be the middle class and the top earners. Too many people find themselves priced out of the housing market ,partially because of the over-inflated "luxury" tier catering to potential flippers or investors who are merely parking money until a later date. Retailers have lost the "aspirational" "consumer who was buying designer brands, albeit on credit cards.Our society has devolved into one of the truly rich and increasingly poorer.
What is the real elephant in the room is the increasing chasm between what used to be the middle class and the top earners. Too many people find themselves priced out of the housing market ,partially because of the over-inflated "luxury" tier catering to potential flippers or investors who are merely parking money until a later date. Retailers have lost the "aspirational" "consumer who was buying designer brands, albeit on credit cards.Our society has devolved into one of the truly rich and increasingly poorer.
13
Trump, help somebody not in the kleptocracy?
You're kidding, right?
But you can buy a membership in his club for $200,000.
You're kidding, right?
But you can buy a membership in his club for $200,000.
302
Trump did not cause this huge, world-wide problem, Susan -- in 90 days.
He may make a convenient punching bag for the left, but if you don't look deeper at this issue -- joblessness -- it will come back to bite you again in 2020.
He may make a convenient punching bag for the left, but if you don't look deeper at this issue -- joblessness -- it will come back to bite you again in 2020.
3
CC- Please explain why the wealthy and financially well off supported trump if it's all about jobs. I live in a town where the median income is $85,000. My town and most of the well-off surrounding towns overwhelmingly supported trump. We are probably 90% white but many are afraid of the illegals taking their $85K jobs! My brother works in a local machine shop which is looking to hire 28 workers at a decent salary. No-one is knocking on the door- illegals or otherwise since our state unemployment rate is under 4%. My husband works in a union shop where most salaries are far above $100K. Almost all voted for trump. They are almost all racists, bigots, homophobes, anti-welfare (except for themselves) or misogynists. So, if it was solely about jobs, please explain why the average trump voter has an income of $70K.
32
It's not about jobs, it's about globalization. They want to go back to the time when you never saw Asians or Central Americans living and working in your community. There were churches and synagogues, no mosques. Packaging and signage were only in English. Their backgrounds and their neighbor's backgrounds were Northern European (including British). I don't like these changes either. Desegregation was the only good change to this picture, but a change most Trump voters will privately not support.
2
Retail has lost its connection with its customers because people have lost their connection with each other. Remember a time when retail operations, both large and small, had a stable, knowledgeable sales force that established relationships with their customers. The small shops excelled at this.
When was the last time anyone reading this had a pleasurable interaction with a sales clerk in a store? They make you feel like they want to get rid of you. They don't know the merchandise and often don't know where it is. Going shopping is as personal as shopping online so just shop online.
We have forgotten how to interact. When was the last time a sales clerk made eye contact with you? They recite their lines like robots and behave like the customer is an inanimate object.
The big stores have caused this. They killed off all of the small shops. They don't pay anything. They treat their employees horribly. They don't provide any training. And they don't care about any of these things. Profits are all that matters.
By abandoning all that makes retail work, retail is killing itself. Our nation is doing the same. Cutting everything for tax cuts for the super rich is killing off everything that makes society work. Then the cutters complain that society is falling apart so we must cut some more. We are dying from the cuts.
Government has taken the same path as retail. By shrinking government, we are tax cutting ourselves to death.
When was the last time anyone reading this had a pleasurable interaction with a sales clerk in a store? They make you feel like they want to get rid of you. They don't know the merchandise and often don't know where it is. Going shopping is as personal as shopping online so just shop online.
We have forgotten how to interact. When was the last time a sales clerk made eye contact with you? They recite their lines like robots and behave like the customer is an inanimate object.
The big stores have caused this. They killed off all of the small shops. They don't pay anything. They treat their employees horribly. They don't provide any training. And they don't care about any of these things. Profits are all that matters.
By abandoning all that makes retail work, retail is killing itself. Our nation is doing the same. Cutting everything for tax cuts for the super rich is killing off everything that makes society work. Then the cutters complain that society is falling apart so we must cut some more. We are dying from the cuts.
Government has taken the same path as retail. By shrinking government, we are tax cutting ourselves to death.
512
It gets worse Bruce. Just read David Brooks piece , its comments, and you'll find myriad reasons to despair about the prospects our society faces.
"Service workers are poorly paid and have few benefits because of intentional policy decisions, not impersonal forces."
Ah yes, overpaying for a job when plenty of people are willing to do it for less. A fine prescription for a future of maximal automation and online sales
Ah yes, overpaying for a job when plenty of people are willing to do it for less. A fine prescription for a future of maximal automation and online sales
3
We as Americans have generally chosen to purchase the lower-price product from the store that gives us less sales rep. availability/lower sales rep. competence/longer checkout lines (think Walmart) than the higher-price product from the store that gives us us more sales rep. availability/higher sales rep. competence/shorter checkout lines. Big-box retail abandoned service not due to some nefarious plot or a lack of insight into what customers want, but because customers voted for that outcome with their dollars.
24
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/upshot/evidence-that-robots-are-winni...