It's that been there, done that thing all over again. Kind of like a healthcare version of Groundhog Day. Instead of wasting everybody's time with these stupidities, why not just expand Medicare coverage and call it a day?
18
I think Congress should all go on Medicaid.
16
Ms Sanger-Katz, you lost me at "...offered by leaders of...centrist groups within the House Republican caucus..."
Ms Sanger-Katz, there is no such thing as a "centrist" in the House Republican caucus. Anyone who would propose a plan that includes "shifts...not just from old to young and poor to rich, but also from sick to healthy," is not only not centrist, not moderate, but in fact a vicious, cruel extremist.
Perhaps if corporate reporters like Ms Sanger-Katz stopped pretending that these dangerous Republican extremists were somehow acceptable "centrists," voters would stop sending them to Congress.
Ms Sanger-Katz, there is no such thing as a "centrist" in the House Republican caucus. Anyone who would propose a plan that includes "shifts...not just from old to young and poor to rich, but also from sick to healthy," is not only not centrist, not moderate, but in fact a vicious, cruel extremist.
Perhaps if corporate reporters like Ms Sanger-Katz stopped pretending that these dangerous Republican extremists were somehow acceptable "centrists," voters would stop sending them to Congress.
27
Too many Americans embrace royalty and a class society where being rich means you live and being poor means you die. Under this proposal we will rapidly have States where indigent healthcare resembles that in a 3rd world country. American healthcare statistics are already among the worst for a developed country; under this proposal they will become the worst among our peers. Republicans don't care. They got theirs. Everyone else be damned. And so, a once great nation fails.
34
They're hitting hard with the anti ACA TV ads here in NC. Next time the South wants to secede, let them do it. If things keep going this way moving back to the North and sanity gets more appealing every day.
26
Actuarial arithmetic is so concrete and unforgiving. It means that if you want to cover everyone, or only a few favored folks (read: rich), or none, an insurance company or the government is obliged to face facts. The interesting point is how willfully ignorant is the always pandered-to Great American People refusal to pay attention the reality behind the promises of fabulists, hucksters, and charlatans who advertise what math cannot allow UNLESS SOMEONE WILL PAY FOR IT, with taxes, lower profits, premiums.
Of course the latest Tory plan will look like the old days: those are what the facts demand if you don't want health care as a right, and you want to minimize costs, and you don't mind if many go bankrupt, or die, except for the self-satisfied rich who get their coverage paid by companies (i.e., tax deductions) or can self-insure.
Of course the latest Tory plan will look like the old days: those are what the facts demand if you don't want health care as a right, and you want to minimize costs, and you don't mind if many go bankrupt, or die, except for the self-satisfied rich who get their coverage paid by companies (i.e., tax deductions) or can self-insure.
21
Anyone who actually believes this complex, Rube Goldberg "plan" is an improvement over the ACA is either delusional or just plain stupid. But if it passed (heaven forbid), then Trump could claim a win, which is all that matters to him and his GOP enablers.
12
That's a pretty good description of the "repeal" part. I'm still waiting to read about the "replace" part.
I'm also wondering how the health history of a man could be identical to that of a women who had ever been pregnant (whether carried to term or not). Can you say sham?
I'm also wondering how the health history of a man could be identical to that of a women who had ever been pregnant (whether carried to term or not). Can you say sham?
7
Republican healthcare plan: die quickly.
16
A pox on their house. Republicans, you own this.
13
The pre-existing condition that this newly evamped health care plan shares most with its failed predecessor is insanity. Gross stupidity is also highly likely to be included. Selfishness and greed will be covered in full. Trump Care. Gotta get some of that!
9
Medicare-for-All.
Pathetic in its simplicity.
Pathetic in its simplicity.
6
We love drama!
What did we have before the darn Obamacare?
Exactly!!!!
What did we have before the darn Obamacare?
Exactly!!!!
4
The GOP represent a kakistocracy of bunglers and spineless men who have no interest in the health and welfare of the electorate that allowed them their positions of ineptitude in Congress.
13
No worries folks. The latest healthcare iteration from the goofs in GOPland will not live to see their idea of universal healthcare advance to signing stage for the Trumpeter. The format is such a ridiculously bad plan that the paper it is written on will be scrap in days.
12
Sounds like the newest version of Trumpcare will be Red White & Blue Health Care. Fend for yourself if you live in a Red State; Obamacare if you live in a Blue State. And, oh yea, White? That's White's only need apply healthcare.
Meanwhile, I forgot to include the one group that will get the best coverage of all - Members of Congress and the NRA members (because bullet holes are a health issue).
Meanwhile, I forgot to include the one group that will get the best coverage of all - Members of Congress and the NRA members (because bullet holes are a health issue).
19
Death squads. You can sugar coat it and say insurance for those with a preexisting condition will be available. However, we all know it will bring death and financial ruin to some Americans who are sick. What an immoral, unchristian, inhumane thing to do to people.
32
I see that Ahab (Trump) is at it again in his demented pursuit of his nemesis, the white whale (Obama). He is using our poor, our sick, our most helpless citizens as the sharp end of the spear. This ended very badly for the Pequod, and it will for us too, for we will each and everyone of us be old and sick one day. Trump reaches out to grasp us from the heart of his own personal hell of jealousy and insecurity. I do not want my fate, or those of my children, to be tied to his pathetic neediness.
17
"Centrist" and other labels are like a clean rug hiding the dirt underneath.
Please stop using them.
Please stop using them.
17
Universal health care!
16
This country sure elected itself one mean government.
37
Service in Congress should be seen as equivalent to military service and members should be required to get healthcare ONLY from the VA.
21
This attempt to please both advocates and opponents of government-regulated health insurance will probably please neither. But if it does pass, conservative states will get waivers and underfund their high risk pools. Then their sick citizens will have to move to liberal states for decent coverage. The conservative states will enjoy lower taxes and the liberal states, through adverse selection, will pay dearly for their conscientiousness. Perfect!
7
As a pediatrician, I feel compelled to comment on one aspect of the article.
BMI calculations for children are complicated to interpret. The article reports that a child weighing 62 pounds and a height of 3' 2" would have been charged more in 2011. For your readers, a child with these measurements would have serious health concerns that would need to be addressed. I am not suggesting that they should have more expensive access to coverage, but the article underplays the complexity of BMI in children and the potential health concerns of a BMI of 30 in a young child. In fact, it is children such as this who should be encouraged to go to the doctor's office to receive the comprehensive care and education needed to prevent future health problems (and rising health expenses).
BMI calculations for children are complicated to interpret. The article reports that a child weighing 62 pounds and a height of 3' 2" would have been charged more in 2011. For your readers, a child with these measurements would have serious health concerns that would need to be addressed. I am not suggesting that they should have more expensive access to coverage, but the article underplays the complexity of BMI in children and the potential health concerns of a BMI of 30 in a young child. In fact, it is children such as this who should be encouraged to go to the doctor's office to receive the comprehensive care and education needed to prevent future health problems (and rising health expenses).
13
The GOP needs to be more conservative.
A pay what you can afford approach is actualy the only way to maximize care and minimize government spending.
• Eliminate all medical discounts which unfairly raise prices on others.
• Require providers to advertise fixed prices to stimulate competition.
• Require all patients to pay what they can afford based on a portion of family income, family wealth and family credit.
• Provide free prescription medication to all who agree to participate in trials of new drugs or agree to donate their organs at death.
• For the uninsured and underinsured government will pay medical provider the difference between what patient can afford and 80% of cost of procedure (up to the average cost).
• All health insurance companies will fully reimburse the provider for the full cost (less government payments) and bill the patient for the difference in the same way a credit card would be billed. Provider can concentrate on patient care.
• Limit medical malpractice recovery.
• Expand insurance products so those with significant economic assets and little government subsidy will have incentive to purchase private health insurance.
• Allow health insurance products to be priced solely on risk (reduced by available government reimbursement).
• Require health insurers to maintain digital health insurance records for use by all patient approved providers and for research.
A pay what you can afford approach is actualy the only way to maximize care and minimize government spending.
• Eliminate all medical discounts which unfairly raise prices on others.
• Require providers to advertise fixed prices to stimulate competition.
• Require all patients to pay what they can afford based on a portion of family income, family wealth and family credit.
• Provide free prescription medication to all who agree to participate in trials of new drugs or agree to donate their organs at death.
• For the uninsured and underinsured government will pay medical provider the difference between what patient can afford and 80% of cost of procedure (up to the average cost).
• All health insurance companies will fully reimburse the provider for the full cost (less government payments) and bill the patient for the difference in the same way a credit card would be billed. Provider can concentrate on patient care.
• Limit medical malpractice recovery.
• Expand insurance products so those with significant economic assets and little government subsidy will have incentive to purchase private health insurance.
• Allow health insurance products to be priced solely on risk (reduced by available government reimbursement).
• Require health insurers to maintain digital health insurance records for use by all patient approved providers and for research.
4
We fail to come to grips with the reality that most of us can't afford the health care services we demand when we become ill or injured. That means someone else has to pay for them. It used to be that the "someone else" was the insurance pool - the healthy insured subsidized the sick. Over time for a number of reasons, health care services in total became so expensive that even insurance is unaffordable for many and the marketplace started to break down. The heart of Obamacare is government intervention in the form of premium support. The government becomes the 'someone else" who is paying the freight but the government is still us and the money comes from our taxes which also pay for many other public goods. The only escape is a temporary one, which is deficit funding - borrowing against the future. We are doing that, but it can't end well. The solution is to understand the true cost and benefits of services and to make some clear eyed choices that will inevitably mean that not everyone can have what they want and not everyone in the healthcare industry can earn as much as they want. Or we can not solve the problems and just continue the nasty recriminations as matters continue to get worse.
2
I can remember when BCBS told me my hormone replacement therapy during menopause was a treating a "preexisting" condition. Seriously? I never knew menopause was a disease or a result of me not taking better care of myself. Insurance companies stand blameless over and over and over again. THEY are the real problem.
Menopause a disease. What a blooming joke. You can't make this stuff up.
Menopause a disease. What a blooming joke. You can't make this stuff up.
24
it was the pre-existing condition of being a woman
18
This newly revised GOP "plan" is just like putting lipstick on a pig or should I say an elephant. The real blessing is the GOP is proving to everyone who is responsible for the dysfunction in Congress. Hopefully this means they will never be able to pass any major legislation and we can sweep them out in 2018. What a bunch of losers - who knew the GOP was full of Trumps.
15
It is bewildering how the ACA, modeled after a Republican healthcare delivery concept and functioning comparatively well in Massachusetts is under such attack by the current Republican Party. It is so apparent that the GOP's basic motive is taking government out of health care, saving money for other activities and throwing so many citizens (especially those living on the edge) under the bus. I cannot fathom what health care will look like if the ACA is crippled and propped up with a bunch of big business, for profit health care delivery schemes.
13
This is a great opportunity for the Democratic Party to play ads in all those states that denied monies to Planned Parenthood to point out how the same moralistic and crass money based values are at the heart of the Republican plan for healthcare. (PP doesn't provide abortions but does provide PAP smears, mammograms and general healthcare for all women.).
Instead of fixing the weaknesses of the ACA, which is an insurance based program already, the Republican plans -- all of them -- go back to a free market base in which case all those people who got insurance under the ACA will be priced out of the system, period. Just like the situation BEFORE the ACA. Republicans are moral hypocrites par excellence on this as on many other issues.
Instead of fixing the weaknesses of the ACA, which is an insurance based program already, the Republican plans -- all of them -- go back to a free market base in which case all those people who got insurance under the ACA will be priced out of the system, period. Just like the situation BEFORE the ACA. Republicans are moral hypocrites par excellence on this as on many other issues.
11
And the most treacherous question on the old forms was whether or not you had ever been turned down for insurance by another company. Answering yes often meant being automatically denied coverage - or if you were lucky merely another round of questions and forms. Standard advice was to apply to multiple companies simultaneously so that you could truthfully deny having ever been turned down, and then hope at least one of the companies accepted you. Oh yes, and some insurance companies required a $200 application fee to cover their costs of examining your medical records. By all means, Republicans, bring back the good old days!
15
Passive genocide lives. In the 1700s, the British East India Company orchestrated a famine that killed 10 million pesky Bengalis. We don't have to repeat other stories. Now the people with vast wealth are after us. We represent too much surplus labor at too high a cost. Of course they target the old and poor. Those are the people they want dead. Let's not mince words. They want to fleece us, then kill us. Anyone who votes for candidates who support tax cuts votes for death.
32
Further proof, if any were needed, that the GOP is now almost exclusively populated by a collection of sociopaths, misanthropes -- and sadists.
All but two GOP members of the Congress call themselves "Christian" -- which claim is not merely a monstrous obscenity, but out-and out blasphemy: for the word literally means "Christ-like," a quality virtually none of these bible-beating bunko artists even remotely possess. Indeed, their "lord and savior" (if they actually have one) is in fact Ayn Rand.
All but two GOP members of the Congress call themselves "Christian" -- which claim is not merely a monstrous obscenity, but out-and out blasphemy: for the word literally means "Christ-like," a quality virtually none of these bible-beating bunko artists even remotely possess. Indeed, their "lord and savior" (if they actually have one) is in fact Ayn Rand.
51
Of course, there are only way to keep health care costs from skyrocketing every year.
One is the Republicans' dream: eliminate mandates or make insurance cheap for the young and healthy, and cut off care from anyone who is sick, can't afford to pay, including children. That would be the outcome of this new "plan" that is acceptable to the most extreme house members, as without subsidies, millions of Americans, mainly in red states, will be on the "good luck to you" health plan.
The only real solution is Medicare for All- get rid of the billions of dollars in profits made by insurance companies, as they provide no actual value in health care. Every other industrialized country has seen the light.
One is the Republicans' dream: eliminate mandates or make insurance cheap for the young and healthy, and cut off care from anyone who is sick, can't afford to pay, including children. That would be the outcome of this new "plan" that is acceptable to the most extreme house members, as without subsidies, millions of Americans, mainly in red states, will be on the "good luck to you" health plan.
The only real solution is Medicare for All- get rid of the billions of dollars in profits made by insurance companies, as they provide no actual value in health care. Every other industrialized country has seen the light.
32
Sadly, a good insurance system is based upon community sharing. We in the USA have recently suffered a lack of willingness to act for the common good. In recent years, a philosophy of "I've got mine, you get your's has prevailed." Any insurance coverage which is adequate and covers many whether home/renters' or car or health, is rooted in the assumption that everyone pays into the system, then those who have a crisis (house fire, car wreck, health emergency) draw out.
The very word 'insurance' suggests the benefit to all, i.e., the peace of mind of knowing that we are 'covered' just in case we are one of the unlucky ones who much make a claim. Many of us are willing to pay the premiums and are thankful if we do not actually "need" the insurance. Needing our insurance means that something in our life has gone off the rails.
Sadly, there is currently an idea in our country that we should not have to pay for insurance if we are healthy or don't currently 'need' it; there is also a thread suggesting that we should not pay for benefits we don't personally need (men/maternity care). Yet, what we 'need' can change in one awful instant. American individualism has gone awry. If the balance does not tip back towards community caring & a sense that we are all in this together, we will continue down the road to being a cold & uncaring people where only the rich thrive.
The very word 'insurance' suggests the benefit to all, i.e., the peace of mind of knowing that we are 'covered' just in case we are one of the unlucky ones who much make a claim. Many of us are willing to pay the premiums and are thankful if we do not actually "need" the insurance. Needing our insurance means that something in our life has gone off the rails.
Sadly, there is currently an idea in our country that we should not have to pay for insurance if we are healthy or don't currently 'need' it; there is also a thread suggesting that we should not pay for benefits we don't personally need (men/maternity care). Yet, what we 'need' can change in one awful instant. American individualism has gone awry. If the balance does not tip back towards community caring & a sense that we are all in this together, we will continue down the road to being a cold & uncaring people where only the rich thrive.
39
Sadly you are wrong in one point. It's not "I've got mine, you get your's," rather it's "I've got main, now I'm going to take what little you have"
13
You are right about the notion of insurance, and I agree with community rating and essential health benefits, and your notions for health insurance.
However, where you are wrong is in the notion of risk-adjusted pricing in auto, homeowners, life insurance.
While I do, however, believe that is fair, I do not believe risk-adjusted pricing in health insurance is appropriate. I believe health insurance should be a basic right, with incentives for healthy choices, not punishment (risk-pricing) for things which people don't have control over (e.g., autism, cancer, etc.)
However, where you are wrong is in the notion of risk-adjusted pricing in auto, homeowners, life insurance.
While I do, however, believe that is fair, I do not believe risk-adjusted pricing in health insurance is appropriate. I believe health insurance should be a basic right, with incentives for healthy choices, not punishment (risk-pricing) for things which people don't have control over (e.g., autism, cancer, etc.)
3
Eliminate all insurance for everyone (company too). You need a doctor, you pay. If you can't afford it, borrow. Can't borrow, maybe the gov't will lend.
The market forces will react by lowering charges since there will be oversupply and lots of sick people not being treated. Elimination of the insurance industry will help; replaced by forgiving financial institutions.
Motivation to stay healthy should markedly increase since there is no cheap treatment.
Which is what all these proposals effectively do anyway.
The market forces will react by lowering charges since there will be oversupply and lots of sick people not being treated. Elimination of the insurance industry will help; replaced by forgiving financial institutions.
Motivation to stay healthy should markedly increase since there is no cheap treatment.
Which is what all these proposals effectively do anyway.
2
@Elizabeth in DC - you make the really sad and outrageous assumption that most folks get sick because they don't have the "Motivation to stay healthy." How wrong you are! Yes, personal behavior plays a role in some of our health, but genetics, environment, nutrition (or lack thereof), and a host of other factors play a far larger role. Your idea is to let the sick be sick and get sicker and even die, unless they have money - and lots of it. Let them eat cake!
16
Yes, you can read my cynical post literally and assume I assume facts not in evidence. But since I have a condition that falls squarely in the pre-existing, not avoidable category, I was putting forward a silly scenario that unfortunately is all too similar to what the new Republican proposal suggests - just taken to a further extent.
But for sake of argument, if you just focused on the people who could stay healthy if they paid attention to their nutrition, etc. (and not out of their hands) and left "insurance" for the unexpected, uncontrollable, etc. there would be more motivation to stay healthy.
And thanks for reading!
But for sake of argument, if you just focused on the people who could stay healthy if they paid attention to their nutrition, etc. (and not out of their hands) and left "insurance" for the unexpected, uncontrollable, etc. there would be more motivation to stay healthy.
And thanks for reading!
2
Elizabeth, your irony was so well done that I almost didn't pick it up until I read - "forgiving financial institutions." . . . :)
8
Health care is a universal right.
21
No it's not.
This plan is as expected. It is the same as the previous AHCA in practice, after the states veto everything because they can't afford it. Everything is great for the Feds because the states have to raise taxes to pay for any real insurance they don't turn down.
But now the good guys, Ryan-McConnell and Trump, stand blameless and still get their tax cut for the 1/4% because the costs are transferred. The Feds tried their best, but those states ... Shame on those states, I guess.
Hope the states see this coming and let the Feds know they will retaliate in 2018.
But now the good guys, Ryan-McConnell and Trump, stand blameless and still get their tax cut for the 1/4% because the costs are transferred. The Feds tried their best, but those states ... Shame on those states, I guess.
Hope the states see this coming and let the Feds know they will retaliate in 2018.
14
Many people will move from the Bad States to the Good States which will increase the power of the Democrats by giving them more Congressional representation
2
In town halls around the country, constituents demanded that Obamacare be either fixed or replaced with something cheaper and better. If the plan as described is what the GOP offers in response, the big problem in America is not that Obamacare is broken. It's that Democracy is broken.
21
How about this: Republicans try again to repeal/replace the ACA and if they don't succeed, we get to hold another presidential election...
25
Best idea I've heard in a long time!
8
First, when I moved from one state to another I had to reapply for a new plan and pay a higher rate even though I was still with the same company and nothing had changed health wise.
Then, as I got a little older and my rate kept going up I tried to switch to a lower priced plan but was told I had to reapply because it was a different plan even though it was virtually the same plan with higher deductibles but with a different name and my original plan allowed for switching to a lower plan with no reapplication requirement.
I was denied the change because the doctor or the insurance company listed me as having had some rare skin disease which I never had so I was stuck with my higher priced existing plan.
After several years of battling with them they eventually settled with paying me about $10,000 to cover the difference in premiums had I switched to the lower priced plan.
Believe me most people would not have gone through what I went through or been knowledgeable enough (having once been part of a major insurance company) about the law to get back the overcharge which is what they count on.
Insurance companies are what I call "legalized mafia". They are among the most morally corrupt industries around. They are in the business of collecting as much premiums as they can and paying out as little as they can, and them some. The only way those who are working to destroy Obamacare will ever understand the evil they are doing is to get sick and die without healthcare.
Then, as I got a little older and my rate kept going up I tried to switch to a lower priced plan but was told I had to reapply because it was a different plan even though it was virtually the same plan with higher deductibles but with a different name and my original plan allowed for switching to a lower plan with no reapplication requirement.
I was denied the change because the doctor or the insurance company listed me as having had some rare skin disease which I never had so I was stuck with my higher priced existing plan.
After several years of battling with them they eventually settled with paying me about $10,000 to cover the difference in premiums had I switched to the lower priced plan.
Believe me most people would not have gone through what I went through or been knowledgeable enough (having once been part of a major insurance company) about the law to get back the overcharge which is what they count on.
Insurance companies are what I call "legalized mafia". They are among the most morally corrupt industries around. They are in the business of collecting as much premiums as they can and paying out as little as they can, and them some. The only way those who are working to destroy Obamacare will ever understand the evil they are doing is to get sick and die without healthcare.
34
Health insurance companies are. legal Mafia. Let's put them in jail using the RICO laws!
4
Here is my idea of how to lower health insurance premiums.
Mandate every health insurance policy to cover only complications from ant bites and nothing else. That will lower the premiums, there you go!.
I am waiting for my Nobel Prize in economics!.
This republican new/old plan is unbridled insanity, and it is as good as my " ant bites only policy".
Mandate every health insurance policy to cover only complications from ant bites and nothing else. That will lower the premiums, there you go!.
I am waiting for my Nobel Prize in economics!.
This republican new/old plan is unbridled insanity, and it is as good as my " ant bites only policy".
14
The ant bites could cause a major reaction in someone though and actually end up cutting an insurance company's profits, especially if they have many ant bites at one time. People who have to go outside where there are ants should be charged 300% extra.
8
Someone please tell me how this GOP health plan will make America great again.
16
The authors of the article are omitting a key element: people who wait until they are sick will have to jump through hoops to be rated. People who are continuously insured get community rating. And they won't be re-rated if they get sick or be canceled.
3
Isn't that nice. Works fine if you're rich. Not applicable if you are poor and have had to drop your insurance at times or if you are young and haven't bothered with health insurance. And what is "continuously insured" anyway? One year? Ten years? Twenty years?
6
The author writes that the plan would protect patients with pre-existing conditions "only in a very limited sense". No, let's be clear: the GOP claim is a bold-faced lie. Patients with pre-existing conditions will be thrown to the crocodiles if the GOP has its way. Just say it how it is.
19
Will the effectiveness of this "new" plan be assessed by CBO under various scenarios for state decisions? If it is assessed, it will be seen that, in effect, the problem has been transformed into "allowing" states to pay for a form of Massachusetts' Romneycare if they are concerned about their citizens.
In short, states are "allowed" to implement Obamacare all by themselves, while Federal dollars now going into Obamacare instead go into off shore tax havens for the 1/4%.
In short, states are "allowed" to implement Obamacare all by themselves, while Federal dollars now going into Obamacare instead go into off shore tax havens for the 1/4%.
13
No left-winger, Greta van Susteren, who never gets excited about ideology, only money and law, succinctly described this as "pulling a fast one."
It's a con, maintaining protections for those with preexisting conditions in name only; yet another Republican fraudulent substitution of mere "access" to healthcare for actual, affordable healthcare. Yes, if you have perfect health, you can have insurance at reasonable rates, until you need to use it. Thereafter, it will be priced out of reach. Insurance companies will pocket all your money while you are healthy, not using your insurance, then price themselves off the hook the moment you get sick. What could be more profitable?
The fundamental betrayal here is that the GOP has zero interest in national healthcare policy, something that would address the needs of all the American people. Their only interest in passing a healthcare bill is to save enough money, taking it from healthcare, that their real agenda, tax reform for the rich, doesn't blow an even bigger hole in the deficit.
This isn't legislating. It is looting. It's taking from those in need and taking on debt, encumbering future generations, to give tax cuts to the 1% in the here and now.
It's a con, maintaining protections for those with preexisting conditions in name only; yet another Republican fraudulent substitution of mere "access" to healthcare for actual, affordable healthcare. Yes, if you have perfect health, you can have insurance at reasonable rates, until you need to use it. Thereafter, it will be priced out of reach. Insurance companies will pocket all your money while you are healthy, not using your insurance, then price themselves off the hook the moment you get sick. What could be more profitable?
The fundamental betrayal here is that the GOP has zero interest in national healthcare policy, something that would address the needs of all the American people. Their only interest in passing a healthcare bill is to save enough money, taking it from healthcare, that their real agenda, tax reform for the rich, doesn't blow an even bigger hole in the deficit.
This isn't legislating. It is looting. It's taking from those in need and taking on debt, encumbering future generations, to give tax cuts to the 1% in the here and now.
35
The "new" AHCA cuts Federal spending for healthcare by reducing benefits and transferring costs to the states (should they wish to provide healthcare). Then that Federal "savings" is spent to finance the fiction of a "tax reform" that cuts taxes for the affluent but doesn't increase the debt, because the present Federal healthcare costs no longer exist.
It's the Ryan-McConnell "packaging" scheme to bilk the taxpayer.
It's the Ryan-McConnell "packaging" scheme to bilk the taxpayer.
9
Obamacare is still a lot more expensive than single payer, as it was designed to assure profits to the insurance and pharmaceutical corporations. Earlier in 2016, we had a Democratic candidate who championed single payer. His rival said that wasn't possible, and the DNC elite--in the pockets of those same corporations--made sure she got the nomination. Now we have an administration that wants to take even the little we got with Obamacare away from us. I wonder how many Americans will have to die until we get single payer--if we ever do.
12
Stop already! The "DNC elite" didn't hand Mrs. Clinton the nomination. People like me who voted for her did that. What did the DNC do that forced me to vote for her? Oh right, they created a less than optimal TV schedule! Just like Napoleon firing grape shot at rioters!
The Dutch do not have a single-payer system, they rely on highly regulated private insurance. Doctors (& other medical workers) are paid higher salaries in the US than Europe. I know single-payer has become a Holy Grail for the Left but enough with the mythology. Look at reality.
The Dutch do not have a single-payer system, they rely on highly regulated private insurance. Doctors (& other medical workers) are paid higher salaries in the US than Europe. I know single-payer has become a Holy Grail for the Left but enough with the mythology. Look at reality.
1
Single payer, Medicare for all, is the most effective and efficient system. But it is a huge change for the 150 million Americans who have taxpayer subsidized insurance through their empolyers.
Convincing them to move to a Medicare for all solution is the difficult part. Obamacare, a Republican plan, began the political process of creating awareness that Medicare for all is an acceptable and safe solution.
Convincing them to move to a Medicare for all solution is the difficult part. Obamacare, a Republican plan, began the political process of creating awareness that Medicare for all is an acceptable and safe solution.
5
I was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes at 18 and with Prostate cancer two years before I was involuntarily retired. Neither of these are lifestyle related.
If I was in the US I likely would be dead by now. Thank God for mandatory insurance coverage for all.
If I was in the US I likely would be dead by now. Thank God for mandatory insurance coverage for all.
19
Well this goes with the entire Republican game plan - nostalgia for a glorious past that never existed and never will in the future. Every executive order signed by Trump, every act taken by one of his cabinet members and every piece of legislation -- including this second stab (correct description) at the Affordable Care Act -- have one thing in common: retreat. I've never witnessed anyone or anything retreat to greatness and I very much doubt we will ever see it from this motley gathering. But the real problem with a policy of retreat is that we lose ground. Given the problems we face, we can I'll afford to do that. Yet that is what enough of the country said they wanted -- progress through retreat. We're in more trouble than we've been in a long time and all the signs and indications prove it. But this cadre is as sure that these signs and indications are fake news as they are about retreat as a harbinger of success and progress. That giant thud you heard is the collapse of American moral authority in a world about to run amok. If you think things have been bad up til now, you ain't seen nothing yet.
17
The AHCA bill already had a provision to charge seniors higher premiums (5:1). Assuming that seniors probably will have higher percentage of pre-existing conditions, there's an almost certainty that seniors will be priced out of the market. Although, the latest proposal to the AHCA says that people with pre-existing conditions will be protected, allowing states to re-introduce medical underwriting will undermine such protections.
Also, in the past, high risk pools have failed to help people with pre-existing conditions. In an effort to control expenses, high risk pools had waiting periods, higher premiums and deductibles, less benefits, and caps on annual and lifetime coverage.
One final question. Example, if an individual purchased an obamacare plan 4 years ago. They maintained continuous coverage over that period. This person is now in the middle of cancer treatment. If they leave in a state that opted of the Federal requirements, could that individual be medically underwritten and placed in a high risk pool (i.e., charged higher premiums, etc.) That would be morally wrong. People should not be penalized because Congress changes the rules.
Also, in the past, high risk pools have failed to help people with pre-existing conditions. In an effort to control expenses, high risk pools had waiting periods, higher premiums and deductibles, less benefits, and caps on annual and lifetime coverage.
One final question. Example, if an individual purchased an obamacare plan 4 years ago. They maintained continuous coverage over that period. This person is now in the middle of cancer treatment. If they leave in a state that opted of the Federal requirements, could that individual be medically underwritten and placed in a high risk pool (i.e., charged higher premiums, etc.) That would be morally wrong. People should not be penalized because Congress changes the rules.
19
Mathematics clearly demonstrates that every American with or without insurance will be negatively impacted by this idea. Less money in the system and less people with insurance all adds up to higher rates for everyone else. Even those with employer coverage will see their companies pass on the huge rate increases this will drive. Without mandates, more and more businesses will also simply drop employee coverage. Trump directly lied to his supporters about his vision for healthcare. We will now all be made to suffer for their extreme gullibility. There is no nicer way to say it, Trump voters are directly responsible for this pending train wreck.
30
Because of a clerical error on my wife's record, she was put in the high risk pool and the premium to start was $1100 per month. Four years later it was $1500 per month.
We tried for months to correct the mistake, but it was a lost cause. An underwriter sitting in a cubical basically denied her access to affordable care. Back to the old days: forget about it.
We tried for months to correct the mistake, but it was a lost cause. An underwriter sitting in a cubical basically denied her access to affordable care. Back to the old days: forget about it.
25
This is a "plan" that is so loosely structured and so abjectly focused on real needs that it cannot be called anything other than a grand wasteful mess that does nothing to increase the value of the care being delivered and does everything to increase the wallet size of health insurance company execs while providing a most undeserved tax cut to the richest of people.
36
It is "mandatory" to have auto insurance to protect other citizens with whom we may have an accident. Yet, this bill removes the tax penalty for those who elect to have no health coverage. What happens if a uninsured, or underinsured, person is injured or contracts a contagious disease - which can infect us all? In the absence of their ability to pay, do they seek medical treatment and if so, who pays for it? We do of course. People don't have to drive a car, tragically, they can't opt-out of getting sick :(
45
You do not have to get insurance if you are not driving on public roads. There is no inherent human right to drive on roads that were built with taxpayer funds.
It is not a comparable situation.
Insurance is a product that people use to protect their assets. People who have possessions buy health insurance so that if they experience high medical costs, the hospital will not take everything they own.
We will, as we always have, treat people who are sick. If they did not buy health insurance, they will lose any possessions they have to pay for it. If they have nothing, they probably couldn't afford premiums anyway.
And it is not as if ObamaCare policies meant that those covered were going to get state of the art treatment at Sloan Kettering or the Cleveland Clinic. The centers of excellence were all out of network for ObamaCare policies.
It is not a comparable situation.
Insurance is a product that people use to protect their assets. People who have possessions buy health insurance so that if they experience high medical costs, the hospital will not take everything they own.
We will, as we always have, treat people who are sick. If they did not buy health insurance, they will lose any possessions they have to pay for it. If they have nothing, they probably couldn't afford premiums anyway.
And it is not as if ObamaCare policies meant that those covered were going to get state of the art treatment at Sloan Kettering or the Cleveland Clinic. The centers of excellence were all out of network for ObamaCare policies.
2
Dear God! Drive anywhere you want so long as it's not on public roads? That's really helpful. If you can't drive on public roads there's no need for health insurance since you won't be able to get to the doctor anyway. Bingo. Big time savings 'cause you don't need to buy auto or health insurance.
Of course, if you do get sick without insurance, just as ebmem says, you're going to lose the shirt on your back and everything else you own. Your heirs would be better off if you just checked out. Maybe that's the intent? Clear out the rabble.
The irony of it all. Public roads are not a universal right but we all pay for our roads because it is cheaper and considerably more efficient to make them a universally shared cost. The health of Americans, however, is farmed out to rapcious for-profit insurance companies and usurious health care providers on a case-by-case basis. That sure is fair. You got the cash, you get the health care. Go pound sand if you're having trouble making ends meet.
And how many of us, with or without premium health insurance, end up a Sloan Kettering? What a specious argument.
Of course, if you do get sick without insurance, just as ebmem says, you're going to lose the shirt on your back and everything else you own. Your heirs would be better off if you just checked out. Maybe that's the intent? Clear out the rabble.
The irony of it all. Public roads are not a universal right but we all pay for our roads because it is cheaper and considerably more efficient to make them a universally shared cost. The health of Americans, however, is farmed out to rapcious for-profit insurance companies and usurious health care providers on a case-by-case basis. That sure is fair. You got the cash, you get the health care. Go pound sand if you're having trouble making ends meet.
And how many of us, with or without premium health insurance, end up a Sloan Kettering? What a specious argument.
3
Obviously everything that is wrong with America can be traced to the passage of "Obamacare." As the final Republican votes aye for its repeal an unprecedented triple rainbow will materialize above the U.S. Capitol and a leprechuan in a red MAGA baseball cap with Pfizer branded on his forehead will be seen high-fiving Paul Ryan. But hey some folks who voted for Trump and down-ticket Republicans in November will lose their health insurance, so it's not all bad.
21
Sounds great for the insurance companies, sounds lousy for we the people.
28
ObamaCare was designed so that big medicine would get paid. Big medicine increased their payment demands from the insurance companies, who passed them along in premiums after taking their 20%. Medical inflation in 2016 was three times normal inflation. The rise in hospital charges and drug prices is the direct result of the additional opacity Obama introduced.
Pass a law that charity medical systems, including Kaiser, aren't allowed to pay their executives more than $500,000 per year. Make the FDA more efficient so they approve generic drug suppliers rather than encouraging sole suppliers of generic drugs that allow them to jack up the price of a $10 drug to $10,000.
Pass a law that charity medical systems, including Kaiser, aren't allowed to pay their executives more than $500,000 per year. Make the FDA more efficient so they approve generic drug suppliers rather than encouraging sole suppliers of generic drugs that allow them to jack up the price of a $10 drug to $10,000.
7
All those people who vote libertarian this is what you get cruel capitalism
15
Sounds to me like "the state could seek a waiver..." is code for "the states could impose a death penalty if it meant lower taxes for their wealthiest citizens"
20
It seems under Republican will turn the health insurance into a car insurance. If you are sick( have car accidents), you will get insurance but you have to pay through the nose. If you are healthy, Don't get sick ( have car accident) because your premium will increase.
3
Why do they have to repeal it ? Why not just repair it ? Why ?Because they want to take that away from President Obama . Pure greed .
The plan will most likely be terrible and hopefully won't get the votes needed to pass it .
The resistance is working . We will keep it up .
The plan will most likely be terrible and hopefully won't get the votes needed to pass it .
The resistance is working . We will keep it up .
23
The only way to repair ObamaCare is for working people paying premiums and the taxpayers to give huge additional sums of money to big medicine, so that the manufacturers of EpiPens can charge $600an $100.
1
Every day it becomes increasingly clearer that the immutable laws of economics mean that unless the Republicans want to allow medical underwriting, that is where insurance companies can reject applicants with preexisting conditions, something very close to Obamacare must be retained.
Demand for medical care is inelastic. Controlling prices charged by doctors and hospitals via the use of monopsony like the rest of the developed world does is an anathema to Republicans. Monopsony, meaning "single buyer" is the flip side of monopoly. A monopsonist sets prices below free market equilibrium. It does not matter if there is an actual single payer or many buyers (or payers) whose prices are set by the government or by insurance companies in collusion with each other. see: Obamacare And Beyond: The Outlook For The Healthcare Sector. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
As it is dawning on the Republicans, any system that does not explicitly control prices must have mandates and subsidies similar to those in Obamacare. Otherwise, most individual insurance policies would be far beyond the reach of middle class Americans since, without medical underwriting insurance companies would have to price their policies based on the assumption that the applicant has a costly preexisting condition..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4042715
Demand for medical care is inelastic. Controlling prices charged by doctors and hospitals via the use of monopsony like the rest of the developed world does is an anathema to Republicans. Monopsony, meaning "single buyer" is the flip side of monopoly. A monopsonist sets prices below free market equilibrium. It does not matter if there is an actual single payer or many buyers (or payers) whose prices are set by the government or by insurance companies in collusion with each other. see: Obamacare And Beyond: The Outlook For The Healthcare Sector. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1647632
As it is dawning on the Republicans, any system that does not explicitly control prices must have mandates and subsidies similar to those in Obamacare. Otherwise, most individual insurance policies would be far beyond the reach of middle class Americans since, without medical underwriting insurance companies would have to price their policies based on the assumption that the applicant has a costly preexisting condition..."
http://seekingalpha.com/article/4042715
10
If you want to wait six months for a cat scan or to start your chemotherapy, move to Canada or the UK.
Obamacare, despite its flaws, has set the benchmark on what Americans expect from their healthcare system.
It is clear that the republicans are under pressure to pass a republican healthcare, with an eye on 2018 elections. But that means they would offer any less coverage/benefits than Obamacare. The republicans -- like McConnell, Cruz, Steve King, and Louis Gohmert -- would not do anything that stupid.
Or, will they ? With republicans, you never know.
It is clear that the republicans are under pressure to pass a republican healthcare, with an eye on 2018 elections. But that means they would offer any less coverage/benefits than Obamacare. The republicans -- like McConnell, Cruz, Steve King, and Louis Gohmert -- would not do anything that stupid.
Or, will they ? With republicans, you never know.
12
Simply put, by inflicting needless costs and worries on sicker and older Americans, and stripping away health insurance from millions, the latest Republican bill would be a moral disaster. It is a true shame that the many Republicans who profess to be devout Christians and ardent readers of the Bible do not take seriously Jesus' mandate to care for the sick.
36
The Republicans want to offer a healthcare plan that appears to be of benefit to the people while doing little for the people. A fake healthcare plan from the fake Republicans in Congress to be signed by the fake president. They should be ashamed of themselves for cheating the American people out of decent healthcare.
19
Oh god. Up is down. White is black. Does the party in power have any ability to objectively judge the impact of these changes or is it ideological blindness?
13
This plan stinks with the rottenness of greed! A greed that values the unimaginable wealth of a few over the basic needs for health of the many.
It makes me so angry for them to even pass this off as this "insurance," whether we're talking about the Republican's current proposals or what we used to have in the past. Insurance by definition is "the act, system, or business of providing financial protection for property, life, health, etc, . . . involving payment of regular premiums in return for a policy guaranteeing such protection."
I paid my insurance premiums religiously for over two decades of health. But after I became ill and could no longer work, the promised protection was reneged on. All the insurance companies had to do was cut me off from their end of the bargain and say good luck, lady!
Yet I was one of the so-called lucky ones, because I at least had some savings to afford, for a time, the immensely high costs of the Wisconsin high-risk insurance pools. Some of my friends, though, who suffered from acute or chronic illness were even more out of luck. Because Wisconsin, now under Republican rule, had a waiting list of tens of thousands of people who qualified for, but did not receive, Medicaid.
This was the same even with Obamacare was place. Wisconsin, like many other Republican-controlled states, refused to use the federal funds allowed them, so people could receive the care they needed to sustain their lives. And help ease their suffering. What shame!
It makes me so angry for them to even pass this off as this "insurance," whether we're talking about the Republican's current proposals or what we used to have in the past. Insurance by definition is "the act, system, or business of providing financial protection for property, life, health, etc, . . . involving payment of regular premiums in return for a policy guaranteeing such protection."
I paid my insurance premiums religiously for over two decades of health. But after I became ill and could no longer work, the promised protection was reneged on. All the insurance companies had to do was cut me off from their end of the bargain and say good luck, lady!
Yet I was one of the so-called lucky ones, because I at least had some savings to afford, for a time, the immensely high costs of the Wisconsin high-risk insurance pools. Some of my friends, though, who suffered from acute or chronic illness were even more out of luck. Because Wisconsin, now under Republican rule, had a waiting list of tens of thousands of people who qualified for, but did not receive, Medicaid.
This was the same even with Obamacare was place. Wisconsin, like many other Republican-controlled states, refused to use the federal funds allowed them, so people could receive the care they needed to sustain their lives. And help ease their suffering. What shame!
28
We should have single payer at a minimum. We should work toward basic income. The new GOP excuse for a plan gives states all the leeway they need to make things tough on the poor and vulnerable. Trump is insisting on a vote. Good luck. His haplessness is our best ally. He will celebrate his first 100 days with a second healthcare defeat. He will go ballistic.
17
Glory, I am so glad I live in Massachusetts, where we prototyped the Affordable Care Act, also known as Romneycare. So ironic.
65
Why?
Are they just mean spirited? How does making healthcare a privilege benefit society? Why would you want more sick people? Perhaps their plan is to eradicate poverty through death? Someone please explain the upside of this approach to not providing health care.
Are they just mean spirited? How does making healthcare a privilege benefit society? Why would you want more sick people? Perhaps their plan is to eradicate poverty through death? Someone please explain the upside of this approach to not providing health care.
19
When I was forced to consider the state high risk pool in Wisconsin several years ago, the premium was $2200 a month.
25
Well, perhaps President Warren can pass a single payer plan in 2021 when this implodes. She'll likely have both houses of congress.
17
Do Donald Trump and the GOP truly believe Americans are begging to go back to the good old days of rapacious health plans, Byzantine rules, tons of paperwork, high capricious premium costs, and poor coverage?
If so they are way stupider than I thought. And they surely aren't paying attention to all the town halls taking place over the country.
The only people who think this is a great idea are billionaires who can afford concierge care and Congress who all have Cadillac care thanks to the US taxpayer.
A pox on all their houses. Better still, may they try living under the same system they want to force on the American people who pay their salaries.
Medical Darwinism: survival of the richest.
If so they are way stupider than I thought. And they surely aren't paying attention to all the town halls taking place over the country.
The only people who think this is a great idea are billionaires who can afford concierge care and Congress who all have Cadillac care thanks to the US taxpayer.
A pox on all their houses. Better still, may they try living under the same system they want to force on the American people who pay their salaries.
Medical Darwinism: survival of the richest.
44
This group in the WH are mean as a bag of snakes. Republicans of forty years ago one could manage. this group, not a all. the wealthy have no concept of what it takes to live daily and work and pay bills. There are aspects of good government that people recognize. First, in order to make a country work, one pays taxes. From the earliest settlements, people had to build a community that worked for everyone. You need good infrastructure, healthcare, energy, so there is a cost. You also need work and housing and education. These things are not unique. This group of Republicans - millionaires and billionaires - do not have a grasp of how the avarage American lives. For this group, money is all and profit is necessary. They do not care about the American. They do not care about what we need. For them, we are an annoyance. Always asking for those aspects of government "they" do not think we need and so they work to eliminate them. Clean water, clean air, affordable energy and healthcare and standard education.
59
A fair exchange system in communications when discussing some harsh life realities, Republican and Trump Supporters are in agreement with the following sentence 'stay away from the lawyers and doctors because they will bleed you dry'. Surrounded by now hard-working retired Americans, they all have some reason to go to the doctor in town.
Did a little unavoidable eavesdropping when going for a standard check-up where the medical professional listened carefully to an elderly man. Doesn't matter if the above is a Democrat or Republican, they trust him.
Past sixty, unemployed with a pre-existing condition in 2008 when the monthly Health Insurance was nearing $1,500, I was about to chuck it, take my chances and pay out of pocket. A parent came to the rescue. In 2014, 'Obamacare', or more rightly The Affordable Care Act came into being. The monthly health premium was now $492.
President Trump is not able to understand because he is not 'People Like US', who get ill just thinking about how to pay if they get ill, who decide to lump it in their daily life without a security net, and end up in the emergency room. Some are building constructors, some are his most caring supporters, and as for the G.O.P., well, the Members are living on a package of benefits, far away from the realities of the Americans they represent in Congress.
No need to worry because they will always be able to afford to live, and as for the rest of us, People of all Ages, we are disheartened.
Did a little unavoidable eavesdropping when going for a standard check-up where the medical professional listened carefully to an elderly man. Doesn't matter if the above is a Democrat or Republican, they trust him.
Past sixty, unemployed with a pre-existing condition in 2008 when the monthly Health Insurance was nearing $1,500, I was about to chuck it, take my chances and pay out of pocket. A parent came to the rescue. In 2014, 'Obamacare', or more rightly The Affordable Care Act came into being. The monthly health premium was now $492.
President Trump is not able to understand because he is not 'People Like US', who get ill just thinking about how to pay if they get ill, who decide to lump it in their daily life without a security net, and end up in the emergency room. Some are building constructors, some are his most caring supporters, and as for the G.O.P., well, the Members are living on a package of benefits, far away from the realities of the Americans they represent in Congress.
No need to worry because they will always be able to afford to live, and as for the rest of us, People of all Ages, we are disheartened.
29
Yes when I ran 35 miles a week and cholesterol was 273 and could not get affordable insurance. 20 years later I'm in much better shape
7
Consumers of healthcare – all of us – need to be aware of the link between healthcare “reform” and the GOP tax cut plans. The Republican holy grail is to cut taxes. Most of those cuts, of course, go to the top income groups, particularly the very top. In order to push through a tax bill as a continuing resolution, needing no Democratic support in the Senate, it must be “revenue neutral.” In order for that to happen future federal expenditures must be reduced BEFORE the tax plan is passed. The original GOP healthcare plan took almost a trillion dollars out of the federal budget over 10 years largely by cutting future Medicare expenditures. This plan appears to do the same. States applying for a waiver – Republican states - would allow the Administration to shift these costs to the states wishing to maintain reasonable healthcare or to Democratic controlled state budgets.
True tax reform lowering rates and cutting loopholes could generate honest savings. By doing healthcare first, the GOP can put an additional trillion dollars into the pockets of the very rich at the expense of the middle class. Same old story…
True tax reform lowering rates and cutting loopholes could generate honest savings. By doing healthcare first, the GOP can put an additional trillion dollars into the pockets of the very rich at the expense of the middle class. Same old story…
64
I was wondering when we would get the "con"version of healthcare. So let me see if I get this right. If the GOP passes this bill which essentially grants the power and responsibility to the states to decide how to offer insurance. States can apply for waivers which will be granted if they can show that they'll save money. Second part of the proposal essentially eliminates the standards of health care such as prescription drug coverage and basic medical screenings. Seems pretty obvious that if you offer practically no coverage, the policies will be cheaper and states can claim they have saved money. So this meets the sniff test for Trump who promised the best healthcare and a lot cheaper then the ACA? Sniff away, the odor of caca is in the air.
18
We must part with the old and the sick. By all means, let us part with them humanely, but part with them we must. For the good of the herd it must be culled.
12
Esther Joyce replies: Are you being sarcastic? If not, one day you will be old and or sick. Children. Parents.
6
Fred, I believe I've seen you post this exact same comment before on this topic. Perhaps you enjoy being oblique so that no one knows whether it's dark irony or idiocy. But since this actually could kill people, just letting you know you have missed the mark in regards to whatever you are trying to say.
Yes. Sarcasm.
You should always remember that all this is just fiddling around the edges of a very inefficient health care system. Here is an analogy to what we are doing:
Imagine a country, US, that has a problem with sewerage ditches. Now suppose for decades we have been digging our ditches with teaspoons. Also suppose the rest of the world has been using mechanized equipment.
Eventually we see that they have been getting better ditches, dug more quickly and at much lower cost. So after a big fight, we pass the ASA, the Affordable Shovel Act in which we use shovels instead of teaspoons. Yuge improvement.
But wait, there are people who hate improvement and also have donors in the spoon industry. Somehow they get in power and propose a "compromise." We will ditch the ASA and go back to spoons, but this time we will use TABLESPOONS.
Here is some of the data:
All other industrialized countries have some form of universal government run health care. They get at least as good care as measured by all 16 of the bottom line public health statistics, and they do it at 40% of the cost per person. If our system were as efficient, we would save over $1.5 TRILLION each year.
www.pnhp.org & www.oecd.org, especially
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/oecd-health-statistics-2014-frequ...
Here are some per capita figures for health care costs in 2013 in PPP dollars
OECD average - 3463
US - 8713
UK - 3235
France - 4124
Australia (similar obesity) - 3966
Canada - 4361
Imagine a country, US, that has a problem with sewerage ditches. Now suppose for decades we have been digging our ditches with teaspoons. Also suppose the rest of the world has been using mechanized equipment.
Eventually we see that they have been getting better ditches, dug more quickly and at much lower cost. So after a big fight, we pass the ASA, the Affordable Shovel Act in which we use shovels instead of teaspoons. Yuge improvement.
But wait, there are people who hate improvement and also have donors in the spoon industry. Somehow they get in power and propose a "compromise." We will ditch the ASA and go back to spoons, but this time we will use TABLESPOONS.
Here is some of the data:
All other industrialized countries have some form of universal government run health care. They get at least as good care as measured by all 16 of the bottom line public health statistics, and they do it at 40% of the cost per person. If our system were as efficient, we would save over $1.5 TRILLION each year.
www.pnhp.org & www.oecd.org, especially
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/oecd-health-statistics-2014-frequ...
Here are some per capita figures for health care costs in 2013 in PPP dollars
OECD average - 3463
US - 8713
UK - 3235
France - 4124
Australia (similar obesity) - 3966
Canada - 4361
72
Where in the Constitution does it stay that "states rights" give states the right to worsen the health and reduce the life expectancy of those within their borders?
23
The clause in the core Constitution that says all powers not delegated to the federal government are retained by the states or the people.
1
No, no, no. If this is the "new" plan, its not going to help the sick, poorer people who need it most. Even the younger, healthier, comfortable middle-income and wealthy people will eventually get older and possibly sicker. The "plan", if you can even call it that, already sounds like another waste of time. It certainly doesn't address the problem of affordable healthcare for all.
18
in other words you only get a "reasonable cost" if you really have no need for health insurance. Just like Monty Python's "no-accident" auto insurance.
46
There is little question that Republicans want to return to the way things were. When Americans get a taste of how cheap and effective public health really is a lot of Republican donors will be very unhappy.
10
Why bother offer insurance. As an expert in the healthcare industry, the GOP and Trump wishes you to step back into the 1950s. Is this what Trump was referencing in his Make America Great Again speeches? The ACA is on the right track. While not perfect appropriate adjustments will justify its continuation. This revised GOP plan will definitely crash and burn.
And millions of people with it. For shame offering nothing just to pass a promised healthcare bill that's not.
And millions of people with it. For shame offering nothing just to pass a promised healthcare bill that's not.
9
Healthcare cost a whole lot less back in the 1950. You didn't find people having to go to the nearest emergency room for it either.
4
You're right about cost in the 50s. For the better technology has changed as is the way many diseases are treated today. Doubtful anyone will lower prices so healthcare is affordable nor would healthcare personnel allow their salaries to be rolled back. Tell a nurse she/he will be paid $200 a month for full time work today and you will never see them again. Personnel cost usually run 60% or more for a hospital's operating budget.
Try buying a 30 day drug supply for under $5 without insurance coverage. You're also right about ER usage. Not as much a problem in the 50s, but now.
Try buying a 30 day drug supply for under $5 without insurance coverage. You're also right about ER usage. Not as much a problem in the 50s, but now.
The GOP wont be happy until we go back to the old days of bloodletting and leeches. Two procedures already associated with the Republican Congress.
26
The " old days" for anything involving the GOP, means the Middle Ages.
The ruling class, and the Other 90%, the serfs. Ain't it grand.
The ruling class, and the Other 90%, the serfs. Ain't it grand.
22
Yes Republicans , go ahead , pass this & throw out the ACA. Do this & you will be out of office. Same for you Trump, with all your fake posturing in foreign affairs. You will quickly have more people who voted for you in the streets in every state. When Congress flips back to Democratic,you will find an independent investigation of the administration, publishing Trumps taxes, investigating every aspect of the executive orders both public & secret. That is if Republicans can get anything passed. Anything . America is a country so diverse in its needs, Republicans are a regressive bunch unable to do anything except line the pockets of their benefactors, no benefit for Americans. So go ahead , America is watching.
65
Why is it ok for the government to steal from you to pay other's healthcare?
2
John R: In the end, the problem is that healthcare costs are about $8700 per person, and at least 50% of the population absolutely can't afford anywhere close to this number. Short of just letting poor and sickly people die, you have to subsidize their coverage in some way - either by taking from the taxpayer-at-large (Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies), or from the people who happen to be in the same insurance pool (which actually includes fellow employees for the workplace provided coverage), or from the providers (charity care, and, again, Medicaid whose rates don't cover their expenses).
12
John R, Steal? Our taxes don't pay for what we directly use, they pay for the common good. And we all benefit from that. If you only want to pay for what you use, I suggest you go live on a one-man island.
5
"If your child was 3 feet 2 inches tall and weighed more than 62 pounds, the price of insurance would rise." Whaat?!
Your health care syatem is way out of wack. I pity US citizens who have to put up with this sort of financial shennanigans over HEALTH.
Your health care syatem is way out of wack. I pity US citizens who have to put up with this sort of financial shennanigans over HEALTH.
18
The GOP will never pass this mess. They are fundamentally incapable of creating a healthcare mandate that does not suffocate healthcare as it is designed by the ACA currently in terms of universality of benefits at a level most can afford. Millions will again be without basic coverage. The GOP by design or otherwise are out of touch with the electorate on average. The people that support them deserve their problems.
7
I feel sickened by this news. Does that count as a health condition that will cost me higher premiums?
45
Typically the politicians don't eliminate major government benefit programs. They understand the need to preserve their own electoral prospects. But I think that the hard right is blinded by its own ideology. The G.O.P. is risking a major backlash here, and they might not be prepared for it. The result of these proposals will be increased premiums, higher health costs, and reduced coverage. It's always been clear that they want to revert back to the old system.
7
Just read this paragraph from the article.
Repeat the last sentence several times to yourself till the sickness of it sinks in.
"The bill would also substantially reduce federal funding for state Medicaid programs, and revamp the federal subsidy system used to make insurance affordable for middle-income Americans who buy their own coverage. The bill would make insurance more expensive for Americans who are poorer and older, but more affordable for people who are younger and richer."
Republicans in the House of Representatives are a heartless gang of (your expletive here).
Repeat the last sentence several times to yourself till the sickness of it sinks in.
"The bill would also substantially reduce federal funding for state Medicaid programs, and revamp the federal subsidy system used to make insurance affordable for middle-income Americans who buy their own coverage. The bill would make insurance more expensive for Americans who are poorer and older, but more affordable for people who are younger and richer."
Republicans in the House of Representatives are a heartless gang of (your expletive here).
132
Same emphasis as the other worthless GOP proposal. Republicans are determined to eliminate Medicaid even if they have to terret apart one block at a time.
Just waiting for the spin game to begin for this monstrous proposal.
The good news is that the prior attempt to yank health insurance away from millions of Americans has gotten these folks -- including Trump voters -- to actually pay attention. They are primed to listen when news goes out about how horrible the new approach will be, and to protest to their elected representatives.
What I find incredible is the tone-deafness and cluelessness of our so-called president and his band of miscreants. The fact that they got smacked down twice but still think it's a good idea to forge ahead with yet another plan to make Americans worse off with respect to access to decent health insurance is a testament to their overwhelming ineptitude.
It looks like Trump and the geniuses around him are starting to think that continuous attempts to replace Obamacare will play well to their base, similar to the 60 bills to repeal Obama when the Republicans did not control the White House. But failing to replace Obamacare when the Republicans control Congress and the Oval Office just makes them look incompetent and mean.
When this new proposal gets shot down in flames, it will take Obamacare repeal off the table for good, and then set the Republicans up for failure on tax reform for the rich as well.
The good news is that the prior attempt to yank health insurance away from millions of Americans has gotten these folks -- including Trump voters -- to actually pay attention. They are primed to listen when news goes out about how horrible the new approach will be, and to protest to their elected representatives.
What I find incredible is the tone-deafness and cluelessness of our so-called president and his band of miscreants. The fact that they got smacked down twice but still think it's a good idea to forge ahead with yet another plan to make Americans worse off with respect to access to decent health insurance is a testament to their overwhelming ineptitude.
It looks like Trump and the geniuses around him are starting to think that continuous attempts to replace Obamacare will play well to their base, similar to the 60 bills to repeal Obama when the Republicans did not control the White House. But failing to replace Obamacare when the Republicans control Congress and the Oval Office just makes them look incompetent and mean.
When this new proposal gets shot down in flames, it will take Obamacare repeal off the table for good, and then set the Republicans up for failure on tax reform for the rich as well.
49
Republicans have absolutely no interest in governing or serving the best interests of vast majority of Americans that are not billionaires. (They are not even serving the interests of billionaires ho will not benefit living in a land where climate change runs amok and their slaves, oops, servants, are too ill to care for them because they can not get health care, but that is another argument.) The Liar in Chief will continue to propose new atrocities to get rid of Obamacare and do nothing else, just like the previous Republican Congress.
So No, when this idiotic proposal goes sown in flames, in a couple of weeks we will be subjected to another even more vicious proposal.
What the deplorables have done to this country can never be forgiven. And I say this now inhabiting a deplorable state to my great shame.
So No, when this idiotic proposal goes sown in flames, in a couple of weeks we will be subjected to another even more vicious proposal.
What the deplorables have done to this country can never be forgiven. And I say this now inhabiting a deplorable state to my great shame.
1
The Republican proposal, like the old ways, I would term as Discrimination based on health. There may be a possibility of defeating the proposal based on that or the American's with Disabilities Act.
Leave the ACA in place. Over time, enrollments will increase thereby improving the financial conditions of the Act. Medicare took time too.
Leave the ACA in place. Over time, enrollments will increase thereby improving the financial conditions of the Act. Medicare took time too.
29
The basic, underlying problem is that health insurance is not really insurance. It is a payment plan for the medical care you will undoubtedly need. No payment processor is going to charge you less than he has to pay out, so he has to figure out how much that is.
If this is disallowed, then they will just charge a very high price to everyone, to make sure they take in enough money to cover their payments.
If this is disallowed, then they will just charge a very high price to everyone, to make sure they take in enough money to cover their payments.
6
Don't forget, make obscene profits.
12
You are right. As long as healthcare is guided by free-market principles, there is no profitable and fair way to insure all Americans.
5
The first paragraph is generally correct. The second is not.
The "payment processor" needs only to figure out the amount paid out to the entire pool, then work out a way to distribute that amount across the pool. Yes, the very healthy might end up paying somewhat more than normal, but the very sick will pay a bit less. The result of everybody having affordable healthcare is that people are able to seek preventative care, and get the care they need. This keeps more people in the economy, and with net incomes that allow them to participate in the greater economy. This increases everybody's standard of living.
TL;DR: In the beginning, nobody had healthcare and we lived in caves and died at age 30. Then Obama (or Mitt) said "let my people have care" and we saw that it was good.
The "payment processor" needs only to figure out the amount paid out to the entire pool, then work out a way to distribute that amount across the pool. Yes, the very healthy might end up paying somewhat more than normal, but the very sick will pay a bit less. The result of everybody having affordable healthcare is that people are able to seek preventative care, and get the care they need. This keeps more people in the economy, and with net incomes that allow them to participate in the greater economy. This increases everybody's standard of living.
TL;DR: In the beginning, nobody had healthcare and we lived in caves and died at age 30. Then Obama (or Mitt) said "let my people have care" and we saw that it was good.
11
I have been self-employed for 13 years and lived through the annual application process, where I had to report whether anyone in my family had showed any signs of a pre-existing conditions over the past 12 months. It was the worst, and then a child of mine had leukemia. Our rates went sky high. Welcome back to the dark ages.
153
This "plan" seems like political suicide to me. The Republicans are proposing a situation where Republican voters in Republican states would be faced with a either losing their healthcare or moving to a Democrat controlled state for care. The ads write themselves.
137
Problem with trump voters is they value swagger and big talk over their own interests. They are getting what they voted for and they don't care. There may be some political damage but it won't be fatal. Unfortunately.
9
It is once more obvious that GOP is only in it for the health care companies and for tax cuts for the rich. All other civilized western countries has health care for all citizens in one way or another, maybe US is not civilized. Health care for all is actually a benefit for business and economic growth, but that probably not understood.
111
Each congressman and congresswoman should be required to apply for healthcare under the proposed bill prior to voting on it. Their resulting premiums and restrictions should then be made public.
188
Congress should do away with its gold-plated health plan; every congressman und woman should have to buy their own insurance in their home states.
7
Insist that Congress wait for the Congressional Budget Office scoring of these modifications to the American Health Care Act (AHCA).
Trump is so determined to win at any cost to Americans that he has let the radical right draft these modifications.
But, if Americans find out that Trump and the radical right will deny coverage to millions more Americans, and not the poor who are already savaged by the basic AHCA, they will not allow Republicans in Congress to pass this legislation.
Ryan and McConnell dearly want to pass the AHCA to repeal Obamacare so they can reduced taxes by 4% on those who have more than $250,000 per year in investment income. But, if average Americans object strongly they will not have the votes again.
Make these proposed changes DOA by telling your (especially Republican) congressional representative to oppose them.
Trump is so determined to win at any cost to Americans that he has let the radical right draft these modifications.
But, if Americans find out that Trump and the radical right will deny coverage to millions more Americans, and not the poor who are already savaged by the basic AHCA, they will not allow Republicans in Congress to pass this legislation.
Ryan and McConnell dearly want to pass the AHCA to repeal Obamacare so they can reduced taxes by 4% on those who have more than $250,000 per year in investment income. But, if average Americans object strongly they will not have the votes again.
Make these proposed changes DOA by telling your (especially Republican) congressional representative to oppose them.
73
The best outcome of this approach is that millions of people will have to go into the high-risk pools. States will in turn impose provider taxes to fund the high-risk pools. As the insurers expand their definitions of who is uninsurable and push more and more of the poor, elderly and chronically ill into the high-risk pools, states will raise provider taxes again and again, increasing the costs for the wealthy, young and healthy.
We will be more or less back where we are now - except for having to put up with years of chaos as people lack insurance coverage and unable to obtain any care except through emergency rooms or the already overwhelmed community health centers.
We will be more or less back where we are now - except for having to put up with years of chaos as people lack insurance coverage and unable to obtain any care except through emergency rooms or the already overwhelmed community health centers.
28
It sounds like you're sympathetic to Obamacare, which is why I'm kind of surprised you gloss over the "years of chaos" as though the only problem would be crowded emergency room. You're talking years of people in continued pain, deteriorating as they're left untreated, and literally dying.
No way I could be be so sanguine about that outcome; I'd stage a riot in front of RNC headquarters before accepting it.
No way I could be be so sanguine about that outcome; I'd stage a riot in front of RNC headquarters before accepting it.
11
"States will in turn impose provider taxes to fund the high-risk pools."
Nah. Let em eat cake.
Nah. Let em eat cake.
3