He voted for Trump? No sympathy.
14
These people live in regions that mostly supported Trump and many by a large margin. During the campaign, Trump asked "what do you have to lose?" The answer, of course, is "everything"!
14
“I thought he was really going to help people,” Mr. Brnusak said, referring to Mr. Trump. “He’s helped the rich man, the coal operators. But nothing for us so far.”
Somebody hasn't been paying attention. This has been Republican policy for longer than Brnusak's lifetime.
Somebody hasn't been paying attention. This has been Republican policy for longer than Brnusak's lifetime.
19
Coal miners make up a staggeringly small percentage of the workforce, any special focus on that section of our workers is pointless and impractical. Trump's talk was never anything more than blue collar pandering, and now that the conman has been rewarded with their votes the miners will be abandoned.
14
Anyone who's ever cracked open a history book knows something about the importance of mining, and at least a smidge or two of what they've been through. I have empathy for this situation not just because of their health and insurance worries, but for their shame in having been conned.
3
I read that Obama worked hard to get coal miners a certain healthcare coverage that got tossed with Trump. I guess they can't blame that on Hillary. The whole thing is surreal. Maybe they can explain their logic to everyone who keeps being told that no one is listening to these folks.
12
My heart must be very dark these days but I find it impossible to feel anything for these people. What did they think Trump would do for them? How can people be so gullible? Instead I cry for the environment and all the harm Trump will cause our planet. That is a real tragedy.
15
How can I empathize with people who literally voted for their own death and against my civil rights?
19
Truly sad for these miners and for their belief that Trump would be "there" for them and their healthcare. I might have missed this, but why isn't this an issue for the state of West Virginia, and where is their responsibility to take care of their citizens?
8
Hopefully more and more people will understand that Trump doesn't really care about anyone else. Anything he says has to be doubted. It's all liable to be ignored or denied within 24-48-72 hours. He says what sounds good, whether related to reality or not.
8
Too bad that the coal mining communities breathed the polluted rhetoric that came out of Trump's campaign. First of all, coal is NEVER going to "come back". And this president, who entered his career on his father's money (and apparently did not pay attention during his management classes at Wharton) does not show any interest in solution based strategies -- not strategies at all. Everything he does is in the moment. In the almost 2 years since he threw his hat in the political ring, he COULD have projected a possible win, and actually thought about how to restructure the economies in areas where the generational occupations were disappearing. My heart goes out to these people. Their only hope is to see what future candidates have done to show what they CAN do, and be present at the polls.
6
The picture says it all, A United Mine Workers Tee, on a health challenged man, caused by the industry occupation that leaves it's workers broken and sick, and relying on an overpriced medical industry that gets its funding from an health insurance program that is being dismantled by the people that they put in office. So, let continue to dismantle the EPA that protects these people, and not support green energy, that employes people in the sun and wind and put them back into those holes in the ground to pay their loans to Bankers to live in the best places on the planet in their solar powered homes.
36
I think the reporter did a poor job. The reporter should have looked a little bit into the salaries the Union reps are getting paid. For example, cited in the article is Tony Brnusak, 62 who cries that he may not be able to retire if he doesn't get FREE Taxpayer funded healthcare. Well poor Mr Brnusak pulls in $18,885 a year as a Union Board Member. Maybe he should use some of that $18,000 to pay for healthcare? Heck the President of United Mine Workers, District 2 pulls in $78,345, in total -the board and staff are paid $761,781 a year. Maybe they should use some of that money that they are lining the pockets of the Union and instead pay it out to their members. Minors make a huge income, and now we taxpayers should elevate them, they get "special treatment" above all other Americans? What about the cooks who have lost everything when the business they cook for closes? How about the carpet installers who destroy their knees after a lifetime of laying carpet and flooring, they are not "special?" Why do these well paid minors demand we taxpayers now pay for their healthcare, they get a "special law" in Congress *just for them* because they are so special, but nobody else is special? When they voted for Trump who promised to repeal Obamacare so millions of other "not special" people will lose their health insurance? Google- United Mine Workers, District 2 the salaries of the union officials are right out there on their main page.
12
They bought the con. Trump no longer has any use for them
other than empty words and pointless gestures.
other than empty words and pointless gestures.
12
Apparently, the one thing blacker than coal dust are the hearts of the Representatives and candidates who these miners' votes with a a fool's vain of slogans and empty promises. And the only thing emptier than a closed mine are the the heads of the folks who gave them those votes.
17
Trump is not going to help because he does not even know that this issue exists and will not know unless someone on his team explains it in a simple way and his attention does not get distracted by something else in the next 5 minutes.
This is yes another reason we need universal health care. It makes no sense for employers to have to provide health insurance for both employees and retirees. Its a commitment across decades and no one knows if companies will be around that long. It also makes our companies less competitive compared to foreign companies that do not need to provide health insurance to attract workers.
For workers, its completely unfair to have them be at the mercy of promises made decades ago and hope their employer is still around and solvent.
We need universal health care. Enough of this nonsense.
This is yes another reason we need universal health care. It makes no sense for employers to have to provide health insurance for both employees and retirees. Its a commitment across decades and no one knows if companies will be around that long. It also makes our companies less competitive compared to foreign companies that do not need to provide health insurance to attract workers.
For workers, its completely unfair to have them be at the mercy of promises made decades ago and hope their employer is still around and solvent.
We need universal health care. Enough of this nonsense.
7
What did the miners expect, after 9 years of the Republicans promising to repeal the ACA? I wonder how long it will take these voters to realize that Trump, his billionaire cabinet, and an indifferent Republican majority don't have working-class citizens' welfare at heart?
Trump won't deliver the jobs he's promised, he won't fix infrastructure, he won't provide a health care replacement, and his tax cut will put a couple hundreds in the pockets of the middle class while rewarding the wealthy with hundreds of thousands.
Wake up, folks. The people you've elected to run our country are phonies dedicated to welfare for the wealthy.
Trump won't deliver the jobs he's promised, he won't fix infrastructure, he won't provide a health care replacement, and his tax cut will put a couple hundreds in the pockets of the middle class while rewarding the wealthy with hundreds of thousands.
Wake up, folks. The people you've elected to run our country are phonies dedicated to welfare for the wealthy.
11
These miners are just tools in the hands of bad men like Trump and the rest of the GOP.
7
I won't shed a tear for these willfully ignorant Trump voters. I will never forgive any of them. My daughter and grandsons are in daily peril, serving our country in South Korea. I mean, mortal danger, thanks to these ignorant, xenophobic, self serving hipocrites who knowingly voted for someone with those same features. My daily anger surpasses theirs, I can guarantee you.
16
There once was a coal miner deceived
By a candidate’s words he believed
But once given power
The words became sour
And the miner was more than aggrieved
By a candidate’s words he believed
But once given power
The words became sour
And the miner was more than aggrieved
9
A coal mine company problem and a union problem. Not a government problem. Meanwhile, what about FLINT, where the it really IS a government problem.
3
What happened to empathy?
Do you have to be fighting for every breath of air and out of money to afford what little can be done for lungs that are shot, to understand why the poor need health care?
Did people really think it was the poor immigrants that are keeping them down and claiming any government benefits to the poor are "entitlements" but tax breaks and loop holes for the rich are justified and will "tickle down?"
If only those who vote for oligarchs could see the commonalities of the poor.
If only all of that, we wouldn't be worrying about Trump starting WW III, which BTW, some sage person several decades ago, predicted would be fought with sticks and stones.
If only.
Do you have to be fighting for every breath of air and out of money to afford what little can be done for lungs that are shot, to understand why the poor need health care?
Did people really think it was the poor immigrants that are keeping them down and claiming any government benefits to the poor are "entitlements" but tax breaks and loop holes for the rich are justified and will "tickle down?"
If only those who vote for oligarchs could see the commonalities of the poor.
If only all of that, we wouldn't be worrying about Trump starting WW III, which BTW, some sage person several decades ago, predicted would be fought with sticks and stones.
If only.
6
This sounds like welfare. How can they expect to be covered by taxpayers? Many pensions and healthcare plans have been hurt in the private sector, but that's between the employers, employees, and the courts. I'm all for universal coverage, but I'm against picking small blocks of people to be winners at everyone else's expense.
11
Well to quote the chorus from "Guys and Dolls": "Well ain't that too damn bad."
Teach 'em to vote Democratic like their fathers and grandfathers did.
Coal mining? It's dead and all it leaves behind is the dying.
Teach 'em to vote Democratic like their fathers and grandfathers did.
Coal mining? It's dead and all it leaves behind is the dying.
11
I grew up in anthracite coal country, and the coal companies were always in it only for themselves, not caring for the community or their workers. Without the union, the workers would have been without anyone championing them. So this situation currently does not surprise me. McConnell should represent the workers instead of the corporations that fund his campaigns.
15
Many Americans, just like these cited, voted against their best interests. They believed that the gilt covered con man would support them, for their votes. But the gilt is flaky off exposing the rot beneath.
13
It's the old story. These folks vote against their own interests on the basis of lies and personal prejudices. Trump and the Republicans don't give a damn about the miners and never have. They care about mining corporations. This is just one small part of the health care jigsaw where Republicans are between a rock and hard place. The subsidies for insurers with which they are currently games threatens the stability of the entire individual insurance market that covers maybe 20 million people made up of 12 million purchasing on the Obamacare exchanges and another 8 million buying outside the exchanges. This is an enormously serious matter and Trump and the Republicans are playing games with people's lives.
15
I'm very sorry for the miners in their situation, but I'm also sorry that they took Trump at his self-evaluation, and took his word which he has repudiated so many times in the past.
What did they THINK multiple bankruptcies meant? Each one is a broken promise, the one-sided backing out of contracts which had been signed and which should have protected those to whom he owed money. Ten cents on the dollar isn't most people's idea of a "fair deal." That's what Trump did, and continues to do.
What did they THINK multiple bankruptcies meant? Each one is a broken promise, the one-sided backing out of contracts which had been signed and which should have protected those to whom he owed money. Ten cents on the dollar isn't most people's idea of a "fair deal." That's what Trump did, and continues to do.
10
McConnell, so silent these days, is a reprehensible man - according to this, he operates with a grudge against those who doubt him. Wonder who he is modeling his behavior after....
9
If miners would start holding the GOP accountable for their failed promises and give those actually working to help them a chance, they could expect an improvement in their circumstances. Until then, blaming those who you put out of power intead of those you put into power is a waste of your time. You put Trump, McConnell and Ryan into power. Demand they help you and when they don't, vote them out.
11
And what is Wilbur Ross', Commerce Secy, connection to these coal companies who went into bankruptcy and offloaded the health insurance to the federal govt..Someone please connect the dots
8
As I was reading this article, I thought, this should show those miners that they placed their faith (and votes) in the wrong candidate. Then I realized that I'd rather their health care was provided inexpensively, even if it makes Trump look good, because I can't blame them for Trump’s big swindle. He fooled enough people that they elected him-- a lying, cheating, self-centered buffoon. Pray the Democrats get it together for winning campaigns in '18.
5
Not an ounce of sympathy from me.
The blame for the Buffoon in Chief lies with them and they should not get a pass. Their hate for Clinton blinded them but should not excuse them from the consequences that will befall them.
They bought, they broke it, now live with it.
The blame for the Buffoon in Chief lies with them and they should not get a pass. Their hate for Clinton blinded them but should not excuse them from the consequences that will befall them.
They bought, they broke it, now live with it.
14
And it wasn't just their misogyny; it was their blind hatred of President Obama because he is black. They snickered when McConnell said that he would Obstruct Obama every step of his administration. Now they want Obamacare. I.Don't. Care. Too. Bad. Call Trump. See if he cares. Oh, I forgot. He wants Obamacare to explode. Well, there you have your answer. You vote against your interests, you don't get what you need. The worst Democrat still has empathy and will still work, not only for Democratic voters, but for all Americans: Medicare, Medicaid, Affordable Care Act, Social Security, Workers Compensation, Lilly Ledbetter Act, Civil Rights Act, and I could go on and on. Republicans only work for the rich. So keep voting for those who don't care about you. And too bad about you.
39
Trumpcare will dump coal miners insurance, slash Medicaid via block grants to states, defund Medicare, and make private insurance more expensive for seniors or those in risk pools. But the owners of coal mines and other rich get tax presents of more than $800 billion.
I really do not understand why anyone with a chronically ill or disabled family member would vote for the GOP or Trump. If you vote for the GOP you are hurting the disabled and chronically ill. The Trump budget even wants to gut Meals on Wheels a cost-effective system of public/private monies that help people stay out of nursing home care and stay in their homes with food assistance.
Trump/GOP voters have empowered this administration to harm the health of this country. I have a very disabled child. They, the GOP-Trump voters, have put my family at greater risk.
I really do not understand why anyone with a chronically ill or disabled family member would vote for the GOP or Trump. If you vote for the GOP you are hurting the disabled and chronically ill. The Trump budget even wants to gut Meals on Wheels a cost-effective system of public/private monies that help people stay out of nursing home care and stay in their homes with food assistance.
Trump/GOP voters have empowered this administration to harm the health of this country. I have a very disabled child. They, the GOP-Trump voters, have put my family at greater risk.
17
Much as you want to attack and blame Trump, remember that Obamacare and Medicare and Medicaid are exactly as they were under Obama. Trump's team has not decided upon a plan to change health insurance yet. How do you make the biased statement that what Trump will do will harm the health of this country? That is what Obama and Obamacare did.
No Ks, Obama did not put people in danger. It was all the Republican Governors that did not want the expanded Medicaid in their States. Obama care worked great in the States that used it the way it was made to be used. Properly you know.
6
I grew up in Greene County, PA, exactly where the people in this story are. I know who these people are first-hand. These were my neighbors & are my family. They voted for our so-called-president not just for his hollow promise to re-open the coal mines, but for the religious-purity, racist, & homophobic platforms of the Republican Party. They are all registered as Democrats because "my daddy was a Democrat" ever since Roosevelt, but they vote their fear and prejudices that terrorists, blacks, & gays will take over their isolated and homogeneous communities. Like so may other impoverished and under-educated regions of the USA, they continue to empower those who harm them because of fear.
101
Legislation should be passed immediately to continue the benefits, while a long term solution is developed. Unfortunately, this Administration's and the Republican Congress's leadership is pathetically weak, incoherent, and at best incompetent. Therefore, I believe it's unlikely a timely solution will be enacted.
One can only wonder if this would have happened on Hillary's watch, I think not.
One can only wonder if this would have happened on Hillary's watch, I think not.
3
I am sure congress (when they finally get back from a two-week vacation which is ridiculous) will get to it. This administrtion ceratinly has more than the last one where the empty suit sat for eight years. Everything got piled on this president whether one likes/supports, etc. that is the truth. He is making headway. The people will have to hold on.
This article reinforces the fact that the comfortable, in danger of losing their comforts, carried Trump over the top. Republican policies, politically motivated, will no doubt rescue them. The fact is that a Democratic administration and Congress would have approved their needs long ago. their needs must be met!
It is sad that these same people bought into the Trump rhetoric dismissive of those less fortunate. That is the great mystery of these Trump voters. Bottom line, they also fit the Republican dream...greed, self-interest, unconcern for the less fortunate. Ultimately they have forsaken labor's solidarity. Hopefully not but they might even reap what they have sown.
It is sad that these same people bought into the Trump rhetoric dismissive of those less fortunate. That is the great mystery of these Trump voters. Bottom line, they also fit the Republican dream...greed, self-interest, unconcern for the less fortunate. Ultimately they have forsaken labor's solidarity. Hopefully not but they might even reap what they have sown.
4
Did people feel sorry for harness and carriage makers after Ford started manufacturing automobiles? The miners are unwilling to accept that technology will make their jobs go away.
They voted for what they are now whining about. No sympathy coming from me.
They voted for what they are now whining about. No sympathy coming from me.
9
Did they vote for Trump? If so, then this is exactly what they voted for.
8
I agree that Positively I'm hoping for Single Payer Healthcare for all.
President Trump has one year to present a cohesive plan in my mind to address the coal miners,manufacturing & infrastructure issues that he so touted in his campaign.
Let us hope that it's not just alot of hot coal dust blowing our way.
President Trump has one year to present a cohesive plan in my mind to address the coal miners,manufacturing & infrastructure issues that he so touted in his campaign.
Let us hope that it's not just alot of hot coal dust blowing our way.
1
Take a closer look at Mitch McConnell's involvement. He has orchestrated this entire debacle for political payback.
7
I remain consistently bemused at the sheer number of people who think Trump ever tells the truth or means what he says. The man has a history of lying and conning to get his way. As long as he comes out a little bit richer, or at least no worse off, he doesn't care about anyone else.
He's been this way his entire life - spoiled rich kid syndrome - I am stunned at the sheer number of people who not only don't see it, but are in groups that are most damaged by people like Trump every single day, and yet support him consistently. I can only blame poor education or willful ignorance.
He's been this way his entire life - spoiled rich kid syndrome - I am stunned at the sheer number of people who not only don't see it, but are in groups that are most damaged by people like Trump every single day, and yet support him consistently. I can only blame poor education or willful ignorance.
10
I wish I could feel sympathy, if for nothing else at least for the fact that lung conditions are horrific. Still, they used their rights to vote to vote for T. Now they have to live with the results.
In the midst of GOPs attempts to repeal Obamacare (ACA), I had a conversation with a person with the mindset of it being the most evil thing on the planet. The person didn't worry much since there was coverage through ACA. The confusion that set in after informing that Obamacare IS ACA was astounding.
In the midst of GOPs attempts to repeal Obamacare (ACA), I had a conversation with a person with the mindset of it being the most evil thing on the planet. The person didn't worry much since there was coverage through ACA. The confusion that set in after informing that Obamacare IS ACA was astounding.
12
I feel sorry for this man & other miners for the health problems they are suffering - but I find the entire "mining" issue with it's unrealistic promises to be an example of nothing short of lies & foolishness. I worked in radio advertising for 7 years & then the broad arena of publishing the rest of my working life. These industries changed so (!) dramatically with little job security. Years ago we were all warned about the need to accept job changes & retooling of our skills & I went thru multiple mergers, buy outs, and job loss. God how there are things I miss about the old fashioned book business.
But nothing stays the same - and for coal miners to believe that Donald Trump would magically turn back the clock, changing what the the market wants, emerging energy sources & needs, concerns about pollution & health.... is nothing short of foolish thinking. I hope they get their health care renewed - but the US sadly doesn't seem to be a country that does things if there is not a buck in it for someone. And long ago it was clear Trump would say Whatever Would Get a Cheer... and the sad thing is some people believed him.
But nothing stays the same - and for coal miners to believe that Donald Trump would magically turn back the clock, changing what the the market wants, emerging energy sources & needs, concerns about pollution & health.... is nothing short of foolish thinking. I hope they get their health care renewed - but the US sadly doesn't seem to be a country that does things if there is not a buck in it for someone. And long ago it was clear Trump would say Whatever Would Get a Cheer... and the sad thing is some people believed him.
7
Wondering how many more broken promises it will take for those who put Trump and his fellow cesspool friends in charge to get the message: they were all duped, lied to, and are continuing to be misled and fooled?
Compassion calls for a caring response. Compassion will never emerge from "Trumpists" -- only greed and self-serving behaviors.
Compassion calls for a caring response. Compassion will never emerge from "Trumpists" -- only greed and self-serving behaviors.
7
Hillary Clinton would have taken better care of the miners, and the rest of the people in this country, than lying Donald Trump.
This is the fault of the people who voted for Trump including the miners.
Coal miners should start admitting that, and that climate change is real and must be addressed, and start voting for democrats in 2018 and 2020.
This is the fault of the people who voted for Trump including the miners.
Coal miners should start admitting that, and that climate change is real and must be addressed, and start voting for democrats in 2018 and 2020.
14
You apparently have either forgotten or are unaware that Hillary stated, on the campaign trail, that she would be getting rid of coal mining jobs and focus on renewable energy. And miners were already losing jobs, long before Trump came around.
Just how was Hillary going to take care of the miners?
Just how was Hillary going to take care of the miners?
Doesn't you post contain the answer to your own question KS? By focusing on jobs in clean energy sources of the future, not dirty, dangerous, unhealthy ones that were dying all by themselves.
Of course, the miners would have to go along and seek jobs in those industries, instead of sitting on their porches complaining a blue streak about how Obama, Clinton and the world was out to get them by letting coal die a deserved death.
Of course, the miners would have to go along and seek jobs in those industries, instead of sitting on their porches complaining a blue streak about how Obama, Clinton and the world was out to get them by letting coal die a deserved death.
3
Ks:
Hillary was going to have the miners work the clean energy jobs. And she was also going to bring broadband access to these rural areas as well as fund their health care. All of this information is easily discoverable online.
Hillary was going to have the miners work the clean energy jobs. And she was also going to bring broadband access to these rural areas as well as fund their health care. All of this information is easily discoverable online.
1
Dont't forgot the other app. 20 million Americans who will lose coverage if the rep. health plan of be rich, don't get sick and/or don't have a bad life event and make billionaire health execs salaries more important than affordable health care coverage for America...
13
You get what you voted for, a snake oil salesman.
11
These miners gleefully voted for a candidate who promised to eliminate health insurance for tens of millions of other Americans. Now they whine about theirs.
No sympathy from me.
No sympathy from me.
18
I would like equal time pieces on idiot Democrats who could not bring themselves to vote for Clinton and who are willing to admit they were 100% wrong.
17
Not as easy as that Steve....yes....Trump is a bigoted, rabble rousing, admitted sexual predator, ego maniac demagogue but he knew how to demagogue the crowd and appeal to what they need.
Yes, these people are 100% wrong but so was Hillary indirectly.
Instead of addressing issues like rust belt jobs being farmed out, getting into countless little wars overseas, big banks ripping off America, she became part of the problem and ran a identity obsessed, women must rule the country campaign.
One of the most incredibly poor campaigns I ever saw run. Anybody with a half a brain could have beaten Trump.
Yes, these people are 100% wrong but so was Hillary indirectly.
Instead of addressing issues like rust belt jobs being farmed out, getting into countless little wars overseas, big banks ripping off America, she became part of the problem and ran a identity obsessed, women must rule the country campaign.
One of the most incredibly poor campaigns I ever saw run. Anybody with a half a brain could have beaten Trump.
2
And we could use a story about how the DNC rammed an unpopular candidate down our throats. Many of us, once again, held our noses and voted for her. Sure she's better thanTrump. Still she couldn't beat him.
2
Exactly Zejee....my point above.....If she gave any attention (even if faking it) to the rust belt jobs, her sleeping with wall street, never met a war she didn't initially liked and eased up on the female identity obsessed campaign she ran (she lost 53% of the white woman vote that she ticked off against a admitted sexual predator).
The dems stand a good chance of winning back the house and Senate in 1 1/2 yrs but not if they nominate candidates like her.
Bernie would have stood a much great chance of beating the demagogue Trump....Ie he was for woman's issues but did not run a female obsessed campaign, he was against wall street, was for doing something about loss of rust belt jobs and unlike Hillary, would only go to war if the USA was attacked or about to be attacked.
The dems stand a good chance of winning back the house and Senate in 1 1/2 yrs but not if they nominate candidates like her.
Bernie would have stood a much great chance of beating the demagogue Trump....Ie he was for woman's issues but did not run a female obsessed campaign, he was against wall street, was for doing something about loss of rust belt jobs and unlike Hillary, would only go to war if the USA was attacked or about to be attacked.
2
While "told you so" is a tempting refrain, the general tenor of the comments clearly demonstrate the corrosive impact of this "zero sum"/"end justifies the means" campaign and presidential philosophy on furthering our divisions and ability to feel empathy for each other. A fish rots from the head...
14
I receive insurance via the ACA marketplace in NY. We are talking about people who voted in a way that has put not just their health insurance, health, and economic security at risk, but mine and many others as well.
And now I'm supposed to feel empathy for their decision? Sorry, but what I feel is constant stress over losing my health insurance, and resentment.
And now I'm supposed to feel empathy for their decision? Sorry, but what I feel is constant stress over losing my health insurance, and resentment.
27
You can promise the world when you don't expect to get elected. Trump may be as surprised as the miners. Who knew this could be so hard? We need a single payer system like other, moral countries.
18
It is awful not to know whether or not you'll have continued coverage or whether or not you'll be able to leave your 'legacy' to your children (or possibly lose your assets to medical bankruptsy). I know just how you feel. I'm a woman of a certain age cherry-picked from the open market for a pre-existing condition. I feel like I'm on death row. I voted enthusiastically for Sec. Clinton.
18
No offense but you bought it so you own it.
16
So the very people who supported Trump (and his pledge to abolish government-supported healthcare) now expect the government to pay for a special healthcare package specifically for miners? If that's not an inconsistency, what is? But then, the Trump crowd's never worried about consistency (or facts).
20
" a machine that essentially props open the airway to his lungs while he sleeps" Mr. Scheiber seems unfamiliar with the CPAP (continuous positive air pressure) machine that so many among the 22 million U.S. sleep apnea sufferers use. Without minimizing Mr. Van Sickle's breathing problems, or excusing the neglect that he has suffered, I am surprised that Mr. Scheiber doesn't realize that many people far from coal mines use these ubiquitous machines to sleep at night.
10
Trump's first legislative initiative was going to deny medical insurance to over twenty million of his fellow citizens.
What makes these coal miners think he cares about them ?
Very hard to feel sorry for people who swallowed his particular brand of Kool-Aid.
What makes these coal miners think he cares about them ?
Very hard to feel sorry for people who swallowed his particular brand of Kool-Aid.
23
or that they deserve coverage but others don't
17
They got what they happily voted for: zilch or worse. They should be highly pleased.
13
The last 8 years have been brutal to the Coal Industry. Why is this not mentioned anywhere in this article. Obama promised to break coal... and he did his best to do so. This is a major reason why these retirees now have jepordized benefites and a major reason why they despise Obama. What part of this don't you understand?
Obama is one they "despise?" Is he the one on the brink of taking away their health benefits? I thought I read in the article that is the goal of the Republicans in Congress...
14
I don't understand because you are not making sense. These retirees have jeopardized benefits because Republicans - true to form - wont extend them. And why would OB promise to "break" coal when it has been obsolete for years? He did want to shut down dirty power plants in the national interest. And that is nothing to apologize for.
18
@Dave Boden:
Coal mining as a profession was "broken" by automation decades ago. Allowing mostly automated mines to pollute everybody's air and water only helps the coal bosses, not the few remaining coal workers.
Coal mining as a profession was "broken" by automation decades ago. Allowing mostly automated mines to pollute everybody's air and water only helps the coal bosses, not the few remaining coal workers.
2
Republicans are all about free markets, where you get only what you negotiate with your employer. Anything from the government is a handout. What aboiut free markets don't coal miners understand?
12
“He promised to help miners, not just mining companies.”
Forgive me for saying so, but it's really kind of hard to feel sorry for these people. I mean honestly, when in the last 40 years have Republicans lifted a finger to help a single working-class American? They've been nothing but a part of big corporations and high net-worth individuals since 1980. Someone from the working class voting for a Republican in the expectation that that Republican might actually show some concern for their well-being rather than that of a corporation is only going to get what they deserve, frankly.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me over and over again for the last 40 years... what was it that Bush said again?
Forgive me for saying so, but it's really kind of hard to feel sorry for these people. I mean honestly, when in the last 40 years have Republicans lifted a finger to help a single working-class American? They've been nothing but a part of big corporations and high net-worth individuals since 1980. Someone from the working class voting for a Republican in the expectation that that Republican might actually show some concern for their well-being rather than that of a corporation is only going to get what they deserve, frankly.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me over and over again for the last 40 years... what was it that Bush said again?
23
They have been doing this since Reagan and never learn.
13
The Republican oligopoly has these victims of their policies lined up for more exploitation. They are the future of America under Trump.
7
Elections have consequences and so do the choices of voters. Welcome to the consequences, voters.
19
Unfortunately, it takes a Great Depression, 25% unemployment and hunger for the people like those in Appalachia to start supporting liberal causes. Right now they are being totally in la la land of conservative propaganda.
27
Agree with you 100%
7
They would have voted for Bernie.
2
Why is caring for these miners a public expense? This is an industry liability. There will be no improvement to working conditions and environmental stewardship when there is no price to pay for callous disregard.
20
Yes. And industry response is to dump the externality on the tax payer while blaming Obama. Another round of corporate and red state welfare.
17
Retired miners need to take responsibility and fix their your own mess. They voted in a free election with full access to readily available information including fact checkers. If they don't like the outcome, they need to admit their mistake and do more research before they cast their ballots in the future.
35
I think the voices critical of the miners in this discussion thread need to take a moment to weigh their words carefully. It is critical to remember that many of the Trump supporting miners (and their families) from Appalachian West Virginia and Pennsylvania voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. Now West Virginia and western Pennsylvania are so solidly red it will take an act of God to get them to return to the Democratic party.
Gore, Kerry, and Obama practically ignored this region, while Bush and Trump engaged them directly. Hillary Clinton actually had a plan to revitalize their local economies, but she did little to promote it and even less to defend herself against the "put a lot of miners out of work" narrative that Trump's campaign so skillfully used against her. In the end, her lack of effort was--in effect--another Democratic abandonment.
So what else is Appalachia to do? They latched on tight to the only party giving their plight a sympathetic ear. Is their plight going to improve under Trump? Not at all, but I promise you that they won't let go unless something drastic happens. Remember, this is a region where the dining rooms of starving coal mining families in the 40's still featured a picture of UMWA President John L. Lewis right next to Jesus. Allegiances die hard...even to parasites.
These are good people. If you want to do something, do something about the failure of the Democratic party to connect with the people who need them the most.
Gore, Kerry, and Obama practically ignored this region, while Bush and Trump engaged them directly. Hillary Clinton actually had a plan to revitalize their local economies, but she did little to promote it and even less to defend herself against the "put a lot of miners out of work" narrative that Trump's campaign so skillfully used against her. In the end, her lack of effort was--in effect--another Democratic abandonment.
So what else is Appalachia to do? They latched on tight to the only party giving their plight a sympathetic ear. Is their plight going to improve under Trump? Not at all, but I promise you that they won't let go unless something drastic happens. Remember, this is a region where the dining rooms of starving coal mining families in the 40's still featured a picture of UMWA President John L. Lewis right next to Jesus. Allegiances die hard...even to parasites.
These are good people. If you want to do something, do something about the failure of the Democratic party to connect with the people who need them the most.
25
But at what point are these people responsible for their own failure to catch up to the modern world? Where is the state and local government to look into new and sustainable sources of economic growth and stability? The problem is that people like these miners steadfastly refuse to join the 21st century. After a while, it's impossible to meet them halfway and connect with them.
6
Their allegiance is of little consequence to the non-mining population. You can't blame others for a dying industry. You can't blame others because you chose to work in a dangerous field. You can't blame others because your company went out of business and left you without promised benefits. You can't blame others without first identifying and accepting your own actions. it seems like they are against government intervention unless it directly benefits them. it's hard to scrap together any sympathy.
9
All it takes is for Democrats to vote.Democratic turnout was down in 2016 and around 90 million eligible voters don't. I am not going to argue with them anymore.coal is obsolete and Democrats will help with the transition. Republicans won't.
7
Bernie Sanders is giving speeches in Kentucky this week. I wonder how many of these miners made an effort to turn off Fox News and go hear him speak?
15
He is drawing massive crowds everywhere he goes.
1
Anybody tired of winning yet?
24
I am!
2
Not that many of these miners have a subscription to the Times,..... but you voted for a guy who has ALWAYS put himself and corporate America ahead of the interests and concerns of the worker. Good luck to you, you'll need it.
Maybe next time, vote with your head, not your passion. I feel no sympathy for those who choose a path to their own demise.
Maybe next time, vote with your head, not your passion. I feel no sympathy for those who choose a path to their own demise.
23
Surprise!!!! What were they expecting when the "twitter-in-chief" probably pays little if any benefits to his employees. This is a case of "buyer beware"
14
They should have got it in writing.
Coal country voted for freedom and making America great again.
"Now here you go again
You say you want your freedom.
Well who am I to keep you down?" (Fleetwood Mac)
Maybe, just maybe, could you stop criticizing the democrats for not being in favor of your death?... Too much to ask; OK, I get it.
"Now here you go again
You say you want your freedom.
Well who am I to keep you down?" (Fleetwood Mac)
Maybe, just maybe, could you stop criticizing the democrats for not being in favor of your death?... Too much to ask; OK, I get it.
13
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
5
They've kept McConnell in office for decades and all of a sudden they think Trump is their biggest back-stabber?
18
What this story illustrates is the shift of liability for an industry to the tax payer. Black lung disease is not a mystery. Instead of removing regulations, the cost of diseased workers should be a same-time cost of mining. In other words, there should not be promises of future health insurance that can be eliminated through bankruptcy, there should be ongoing annuity contributions throughout the life of workers. You may argue that this would raise the cost of coal now, but it would save consumers money in the long run.
Shifting liabilities to the taxpayers is the true result of reducing regulations. Letting coal companies dump in streams or letting pesticide companies sell toxic products allows the stockholders to pocket the profits and then leaves general taxpayers holding the bag for future health costs. The real reason we do not have single-payer healthcare is that there would be a mental shift towards prevention of health costs and companies would be expected to pay the true costs of their industries.
Shifting liabilities to the taxpayers is the true result of reducing regulations. Letting coal companies dump in streams or letting pesticide companies sell toxic products allows the stockholders to pocket the profits and then leaves general taxpayers holding the bag for future health costs. The real reason we do not have single-payer healthcare is that there would be a mental shift towards prevention of health costs and companies would be expected to pay the true costs of their industries.
14
Coal miners have been manipulated for a very long time, but the Trump manipulation is particularly egregious. The Coal Act that protects miners health and retirement benefits originally passed in the 90s in response to companies shedding their commitments to these minors through bankruptcy proceedings. It has faced problems before, but Congress always sees the light and their benefits continue. Now, however, we'll get to see who the Republicans and Trump really care about, the miners or the corporations. It is shameful that these people were duped into believing that Trump cared about them in the first place, and remarkable that they continue to vote for Republicans. I hope they get their benefits, but it is hard not to point out that if they get them it will be despite what they so overwhelmingly voted for
9
Trump promised better health care, more choice, at less cost, with no cuts to Medicaid.
And he immediately reneged on all of those promises by signing onto the Ryan/Republican AHCA. Doesn't matter if your life and/or economic well-being depends on it.
That is the bitter truth of how expendable Trump views people like the retired miners and others who believed what he said.
And he immediately reneged on all of those promises by signing onto the Ryan/Republican AHCA. Doesn't matter if your life and/or economic well-being depends on it.
That is the bitter truth of how expendable Trump views people like the retired miners and others who believed what he said.
12
Trump operates on a very short list of ideas (I refuse to call them principles.)
1) Reducing regulations and taxes on businesses will provide supply side benefits to all workers in the nation. There is no real benefit to directly ensuring benefits to workers because a strong profitable industry takes care of it.
2) Do and say whatever is necessary to get support from his base to make himself look wonderful and enrich his businesses.
3) Drop any and all supporters like a hot potato if exploiting them no longer seems to affect Mr. Trump and his image and wealth.
The mere fact that this article is written is clear proof of Trump's contemptible attitude towards his base, miners in this case, that believed what he said in the campaign, voted for him, and still don't full believe that anyone could be such a callous liar.
1) Reducing regulations and taxes on businesses will provide supply side benefits to all workers in the nation. There is no real benefit to directly ensuring benefits to workers because a strong profitable industry takes care of it.
2) Do and say whatever is necessary to get support from his base to make himself look wonderful and enrich his businesses.
3) Drop any and all supporters like a hot potato if exploiting them no longer seems to affect Mr. Trump and his image and wealth.
The mere fact that this article is written is clear proof of Trump's contemptible attitude towards his base, miners in this case, that believed what he said in the campaign, voted for him, and still don't full believe that anyone could be such a callous liar.
7
No kidding. Why couldn't people figure out they were voting for a man with no core beliefs who wasn't consistent at all when speaking on policy. Or who sniffed during debates or resorted to insults as opposed to true deliberate discussions to enlighten voters.
We knew it would be a matter of time before the damage of his actions affected people who voted for him. Who trusted him. Those red state voters will suffer the most. Sadly, they took him at his word.
His true colors--make as much money as he can, include the grown kids, hide the visitors, do as much at Mar-a-Lago to avoid scrutiny. Ensure the secret service/his staffers have to spend money at his various businesses.
My busy husband, an investment adviser, says the market dislikes Trump.
And I said Trump is very much like that Republican 'zombie eyed granny starver' Paul Ryan. That phrase came from Charles P. Pierce.
We knew it would be a matter of time before the damage of his actions affected people who voted for him. Who trusted him. Those red state voters will suffer the most. Sadly, they took him at his word.
His true colors--make as much money as he can, include the grown kids, hide the visitors, do as much at Mar-a-Lago to avoid scrutiny. Ensure the secret service/his staffers have to spend money at his various businesses.
My busy husband, an investment adviser, says the market dislikes Trump.
And I said Trump is very much like that Republican 'zombie eyed granny starver' Paul Ryan. That phrase came from Charles P. Pierce.
9
We are the only major Western nation which does not have universal healthcare. We penalize people for being sick - by allowing insurers to deny them coverage for pre-existing conditions, by making them pay huge sums in copays or deductibles when they are sick.
We also pay more per capita for healthcare than any other Western nation.
We penalize those who are poor to begin with; for daring having children even though they're poor. (Because you shouldn't have children if you can't afford them, right?) We somehow think that four people in a household can't be poor if they make more than 24K per year. You wouldn't expect one person to be able to survive and thrive on 6K per year, yet if you make more than that, you don't 'deserve' help.
We stupidly believe that 'free markets' will provide lower costs, because corporations' primary focus is NOT to maximize profits (by any means necessary) for the benefit of their shareholders and disgustingly overpaid executives, but to deliver a quality, low-cost product.
We close our eyes time and again to the fact that those who have the most money win, unless we make laws to level the playing field. And so, we should be unsurprised that a son of those with money, who never had felt want (except to want more money more prestige, more power, more ego) would not give a rat's behind about taking what little makes the lives of those who have labored for us, comfortable, or healthy.
We also pay more per capita for healthcare than any other Western nation.
We penalize those who are poor to begin with; for daring having children even though they're poor. (Because you shouldn't have children if you can't afford them, right?) We somehow think that four people in a household can't be poor if they make more than 24K per year. You wouldn't expect one person to be able to survive and thrive on 6K per year, yet if you make more than that, you don't 'deserve' help.
We stupidly believe that 'free markets' will provide lower costs, because corporations' primary focus is NOT to maximize profits (by any means necessary) for the benefit of their shareholders and disgustingly overpaid executives, but to deliver a quality, low-cost product.
We close our eyes time and again to the fact that those who have the most money win, unless we make laws to level the playing field. And so, we should be unsurprised that a son of those with money, who never had felt want (except to want more money more prestige, more power, more ego) would not give a rat's behind about taking what little makes the lives of those who have labored for us, comfortable, or healthy.
7
Hopefully there will be no more coal mines to poison our air, water and bodies. But we will have to wait longer for the end of this energy source thanks to the Donald, so sad.
5
What a shame that our valued coal miners believed Candidate Trump’s rhetoric and helped put him in the White House. He is untrustworthy and a con artist. These coal miners and their families deserve to maintain their health insurance after spending years in the mines to provide coal for many Americans. President Trump should keep his word with these people who risked life and limb to provide coal and now suffer sickness and disability for their valiant efforts and contributions to our society.
8
It's hard to be empathetic for people who keep voting against their own best interest and in this case their own health (benefits).
Look it up I dare you...Hillary Clinton had a $30 billion plan for increased job training, small-business development, and infrastructure investment, especially in Appalachia.
Hillary Clinton is going to "put a lot of coal miners out of jobs."
Clinton did tell a town hall audience in Columbus, Ohio in March that "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." But that was part of a longer answer about the need to help blue-collar workers adjust.
I dare you to look that up.
Next time pay attention to who you vote for
Hillary Clinton is going to "put a lot of coal miners out of jobs."
Clinton did tell a town hall audience in Columbus, Ohio in March that "we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business." But that was part of a longer answer about the need to help blue-collar workers adjust.
I dare you to look that up.
Next time pay attention to who you vote for
17
Well, I hope those retired miners noted the traitor's exact words, "put our miners back to work". He never said anything about retired miners' healthcare issues.
And his "rollbacks" of mining anti-pollution rules will make it MORE UNHEALTHY to be working in or near mining activities.
Next time, pay attention.
And his "rollbacks" of mining anti-pollution rules will make it MORE UNHEALTHY to be working in or near mining activities.
Next time, pay attention.
6
Well here's a thought. How about if we blue staters contribute to a fund for the coal miner's insurance? I admit I haven't thought this completely through, but it would be a start.
We already are.
6
Unless these Coal Miners are in the upper 2% of American Household income
why should the Republicans care? Trump and Ryan take care of their own, period. Just this morning Paul Ryan was quoted referring to the sick Coal Miners “If they would rather die,” said the Speaker, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”
why should the Republicans care? Trump and Ryan take care of their own, period. Just this morning Paul Ryan was quoted referring to the sick Coal Miners “If they would rather die,” said the Speaker, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”
7
Steelworkers have to rely on the PBG; people who worked at Grants, Woolworths, newspapers -- they all worked hard and suffered poor health. They didn't get special treatment for health care. Such a small group of people upon to base policy.
3
“I thought he was really going to help people." Really? Trust someone who scammed students at his fake university, cheated subcontractors, and declared bankruptcy numerous times? I trust that Trump will continue his life as a con artist, and McConnell his career as a vindictive, vengeful self-centered egotist. The only people they help, besides themselves, are those who pay them a lot of money. Everyone else is clearly expendable.
Well, the important thing here is that trump, mcconnell, and ryan have health care.
4
Most shocking for me is my lack of empathy reading this. This group overwhelmingly supported an ignorant, psychotic buffoon for the Presidency. Then it turns out the benefits are not available to younger miners. "Because no new miners would become eligible for the health benefits awarded to this group, the cost would eventually dwindle to zero."
Every American deserves access to affordable, effective health care. Including these miners. But it would be nice if they extrapolated their own crisis to the millions that are in danger of losing their access due to the man these miners so vocally supported.
Every American deserves access to affordable, effective health care. Including these miners. But it would be nice if they extrapolated their own crisis to the millions that are in danger of losing their access due to the man these miners so vocally supported.
14
Then stop voting Republican.
3
I take no joy in these miners' plight; I just have zero sympathy for them at this point. They've had years to realize they were being had by the GOP, but they persist in voting against their interests time and time again. And so... I just do. not. care. They made their bed, they can lie in it.
15
These unfortunate individuals don't seem to realize that they are just props at photo ops.
7
Not true. The article details their concerns.
1
Their sense of entitlement is enormous. They believe they are entitled to health care benefits, government assistance, and Trump's racism that they clearly knew would hurt minorities, refugees, and immigrants who have been here working at the jobs Americans won't do.
It's a very loud wail of HELP ME! HURT OTHERS!
It's a very loud wail of HELP ME! HURT OTHERS!
13
Dear NYT,,,Give us hope, not just despair. Go in to small communities where resilience and resourcefulness are the order of the day. Being from rural areas can be synonymous with kindness, sophistication and wisdom.
As Amnesty says, let's light small candles, not cry about the darkness.
As Amnesty says, let's light small candles, not cry about the darkness.
1
Where are those small communities where people eschewed Trump's racism, sexism, and fascist blaming of people from other cultures?
These attitudes are not synonymous with "kindness, sophistication, and wisdom."
Where are they? Raise your hand, and I'm sure the NYT will do a story.
These attitudes are not synonymous with "kindness, sophistication, and wisdom."
Where are they? Raise your hand, and I'm sure the NYT will do a story.
6
Who would have thought Donald Trump would lie about caring about the miners? (Well, actually, just about anyone who wasn't lying to himself. Herself.)
8
I would like to join the others who have said that derision, gloating, and "serves you right" comments aimed at miners and others who voted for Trump do not come from a place of empathy or concern for others.
If you had a mentally ill child or mate with Alzheimer's, you wouldn't be tempted to vote for someone who pledged to help out people like you and your child or spouse--even if he/she was a jerk?
The wish to gloat or add insult to injury is such an old, old part of us that keeps giving life to new enemies and entraps the old. Do we really need more evidence that our rage and despair feeds it endlessly?
If you had a mentally ill child or mate with Alzheimer's, you wouldn't be tempted to vote for someone who pledged to help out people like you and your child or spouse--even if he/she was a jerk?
The wish to gloat or add insult to injury is such an old, old part of us that keeps giving life to new enemies and entraps the old. Do we really need more evidence that our rage and despair feeds it endlessly?
2
Hate to say it but I told you so applies here. Trump's slogan should have been "Lies for Votes"
8
The polarization fostered by GOP gerrymandering, voting restrictions and appeals to fear and hate, now magnified by the phony populism of Trump, seem likely to push the states apart to seek their own political equilibrium.
Blue States to varying degrees will continue to expand renewable energy, infrastructure, education and access to health care insurance, paid for with state revenues like higher gas taxes. They will raise minimum wages, ensure pay for overtime and encourage family friendly labor practices.
The Red States will follow the Kansas Brownback Plan, slashing taxes, starving education, infrastructure and their health care system.
Federal transfers from Blue to Red will decline sharply, as Trump has already signaled in his first Budget, tax cut and "repeal and replace" plans.
Now the big question: if you are an employer anywhere in the world looking for the best workforce in the US, capable of keeping up with advanced manufacturing, technology or service, where are you gonna go?
Blue States to varying degrees will continue to expand renewable energy, infrastructure, education and access to health care insurance, paid for with state revenues like higher gas taxes. They will raise minimum wages, ensure pay for overtime and encourage family friendly labor practices.
The Red States will follow the Kansas Brownback Plan, slashing taxes, starving education, infrastructure and their health care system.
Federal transfers from Blue to Red will decline sharply, as Trump has already signaled in his first Budget, tax cut and "repeal and replace" plans.
Now the big question: if you are an employer anywhere in the world looking for the best workforce in the US, capable of keeping up with advanced manufacturing, technology or service, where are you gonna go?
12
Another day, another "dog bites man, man has no medical insurance because man voted for Trump" story.
123
I have to try to remember that one!
I live here in coal country, and I have run out of patience and empathy for these people. Yeah, they've worked hard at dangerous jobs and they deserve some sort of respect for that; but they're also willfully -- and I do mean WILLFULLY -- ignorant about the rest of the world, totally disdainful of anyone not just like them, easily (VERY easily) manipulated by every con artist-preacher and carpetbagger that comes down the pike, and generally not interested in anything but being a coal miner, shooting wild animals and each other, getting drunk or high, and qualifying for disability. Hell, they're even more than willing to destroy the one thing the region has going for it -- beautiful landscapes -- while claiming to love those same mountains they're destroying. I don't get it, and I just don't care anymore.
361
While your generalizations about coal miners may have some examples for which they are true, I find it hard to believe they are mostly as you describe. They did not get good schools, so whatever level of ignorance they have is not their fault. They have accepted that they have to do things in order to make a living. As the article pointed out, they were promised full health insurance after retirement, and for many decades saw these promises kept by the coal companies. It is hard to imagine they could have the foresight to
predict that coal companies would go bankrupt, decades ago when they began their working lives.
It is tempting to belittle, villify, and mock these men, but one should realize
this is a psychological strategy for avoiding helping them, and for helping to retain the illusion that this could not happen to oneself (due to one's
better insight, reasoning etc.). Many knew they had little chance of
getting help from either political party.
predict that coal companies would go bankrupt, decades ago when they began their working lives.
It is tempting to belittle, villify, and mock these men, but one should realize
this is a psychological strategy for avoiding helping them, and for helping to retain the illusion that this could not happen to oneself (due to one's
better insight, reasoning etc.). Many knew they had little chance of
getting help from either political party.
Expat,
In essese you are saying they are stupid, just using nicer words and much longer sentences. Heck, they will still tell others "work harder and pull yourself up".
In essese you are saying they are stupid, just using nicer words and much longer sentences. Heck, they will still tell others "work harder and pull yourself up".
2
I agree, Steve. I, too, am from coal country; I am a native of Huntington, W.Va. For years they could have switched to a different energy other than coal. But there has always been this entrenched mindset that they don't want to change, even if it's obviously for their own good and the environment's good.
I shook my head in shame as I saw Trump in the state's capital during the campaign wearing a hard hat and tell the crowd how he was going to bring back coal. Yeah, right.
Desperate people do desperate things; this includes people in my home state who were taken in by the country's best con man.
I shook my head in shame as I saw Trump in the state's capital during the campaign wearing a hard hat and tell the crowd how he was going to bring back coal. Yeah, right.
Desperate people do desperate things; this includes people in my home state who were taken in by the country's best con man.
1
The NYT needs to pick a narrative and stick with it. Either Trump is a total buffoon incapable of coherent thought and action, in which case he bears no responsibility for any pre-existing situation, or he is so incredibly competent and efficient that his failure to remedy all problems in three months is a moral failing. It's one or the other.
1
Or Trump could be a heartless, egotistical, self-serving ignoramus who hasn't the decency to even speak up in support of the long-suffering workers on whose backs he rode into office. That seems to be the case here.
Has he remedied any problem in three months except those of billionaire owners of companies who can now pollute without pesky little regulations? One of his first executive orders permits the dumping of coal waste in waterways. This helps exactly who?
The issue is that Trump promises big things and desperate people believed him. He does nothing good for anyone except lining the pockets of the rich, including himself and his family.
(And no, Trump can indeed at the same time be a "total buffoon incapable of coherent thought and action," and he can bear responsibility since he was elected the President of the United States based on false promises.)
The issue is that Trump promises big things and desperate people believed him. He does nothing good for anyone except lining the pockets of the rich, including himself and his family.
(And no, Trump can indeed at the same time be a "total buffoon incapable of coherent thought and action," and he can bear responsibility since he was elected the President of the United States based on false promises.)
7
The problem is pre-existing, but there is also a pre-existing solution in the form of health benefits for retired miners, and that solution is about to expire, apparently without Trump or the GOP lifting a finger to help those he promised so much to before November.
The situation is too nasty for the schadenfreude evinced elsewhere. I wish they hadn't voted for the man, but I wish he kept his promises to them.
The situation is too nasty for the schadenfreude evinced elsewhere. I wish they hadn't voted for the man, but I wish he kept his promises to them.
4
Oh yes! One of those lingering and pesky economic externalities of our glorious market economy. Praise be! Where does it end? Methinks I'll be way beyond kaput before it ever does. Geography and heritage is destiny.
13
Single payer that covers what people need. Now.
47
From Nixon to Reagan to the Bushes and now to Trump, these blue collar union workers vote against their economic interests every single time. Decisions have consequences.
Too late now to wake up. It's the horse and sparrow theory once again. Feed the mine owners enough and they'll leave something in the road for the miners.
How's it working so far?
Too late now to wake up. It's the horse and sparrow theory once again. Feed the mine owners enough and they'll leave something in the road for the miners.
How's it working so far?
51
Seniors vote against their best interest as well. Medicare is not allowed to negotiate for prescription medications, the coupons that big pharma offers can't be used by someone on Medicare. Both of these drastically inflates the price of medications for seniors. Too many are busy listening to republican nonsense such as they will lose access to their medications if our representatives vote to allow negotiations. Democrats have tried and failed several times to fix this. Lyrica is one example. I personally know someone on Medicare who is being charged close to $300.00 a month. Lyrica has a copay assistance program for anyone not on Medicare that lowers the copay to $25.00. This isn't chump change for most seniors. The person I know is just going to go without because they can not afford $300.00
5
Those of us who voted for Hillary and against Trump should take no joy in the suffering and perils of the coal miners. Their pain is real and regardless of how they voted, we ought to unite behind them and support anyone, including willing Republicans, prepared to find a solution to the the coal miners' health care problems. Gloating or saying "we told you so" helps no one and in the end is callous.
32
I used to care. I really did. Not anymore. They got what they voted for. Tired of feeling sorry for these folks.
Oh yes, I support them. And want to thank them from the depth of my heart for the mess they created for themselves, the country, and the world by electing an inept, bullying farce as president.
3
Voters get the leaders they want--and deserve.
And they got Trump. The End.
And they got Trump. The End.
3
I have an idea. Why don't we take the federal money we spend protecting the Trumps family for a single weekend at Mar-A Lago and give these hard-working people the health coverage they so desperately need?
111
My guess is that even today most of these voters would STILL vote against an improved ACA or single-payer solution. They voted for a guy (and back a Party) who is rolling back environmental, health and safety regulations designed to keep themselves and non-miners (me) healthier. As a lifelong liberal-leaning voter, I have always sided with the working man - until now. I'm plumb out of sympathy. By voting against their own self-interest, they've made my future security a bit more tenuous. Should a similar fate befall me - poor heath and unaffordable healthcare - at least I will be able to say I didn't vote for this. Beginning with the 2018 election, miners can begin to make this claim as well.
107
I'm with you. This last election has wiped away all of my sympathies for the so called "working man."
3
Sorry but did the miners really expect healthcare benefits from a candidate who ran on destroying healthcare for millions of Americans and for ending environmental and worker safety regulations? Black lung is covered by the ACA but Trump and Ryan just tried to end healthcare for 24 million Americans and end Medicaid for 14 million Americans while giving the wealthy close to a trillion dollars in tax breaks. My grandfather died in a mining accident in Kentucky.
Hopefully Democrats will be able to do something about benefits for these and others suffering from vocational hazards. Since Republicans haven't cared about clean water for the citizens in Flint, they won't care about anyone else. The election is over, and they're all feeding at the corporate trough with the big pig in Chief.
Hopefully Democrats will be able to do something about benefits for these and others suffering from vocational hazards. Since Republicans haven't cared about clean water for the citizens in Flint, they won't care about anyone else. The election is over, and they're all feeding at the corporate trough with the big pig in Chief.
74
This would be funny if it wern't so sad. They wanted him to reopen the mines that made them sick. How does that make sense? They thought a compulsive liar would keep his promises. How foolish is that? The saddest thing is they will vote for him again in 2020.
Personally I can't wait for the White House to become oceanfront property.
Personally I can't wait for the White House to become oceanfront property.
61
The Donald never cared about the miners. He only cared about their votes.
87
These fools , so distrustful of "government," now want government to aid them?
80
Don't kid yourself. Plenty here are on disability and Medicaid.
4
So sorry they had to have such a rude awakening, but for the rest of us, no surprise here.
40
Miners, we tried to warn you. Trump never did anything that didn't enrich himself in his life. He's a con man who always stiffed the little guy, from contractors to people who bought into condo and university scams
It was always the Democrats who stood up for you. Don't let the billionaire Australian Murdoch's liars at Fox keep lying to you.
Here's who cared about you:
https://medium.com/hillary-for-america/building-a-future-for-appalachia-...
It was always the Democrats who stood up for you. Don't let the billionaire Australian Murdoch's liars at Fox keep lying to you.
Here's who cared about you:
https://medium.com/hillary-for-america/building-a-future-for-appalachia-...
91
Thank you, Lynn! If only the election had turned out differently.
4
Murdoch is no Australian. He is a US citizen now. We can't stomach him either, although I woudn't wish him on anyone really.
2
I am shocked by Trump's behavior! With him spending all that time golfing and dining at Mar A Largo with his miner friends you would think this would not have fallen through the cracks. But maybe you didn't get invited, you know, because the oxygen tanks and Mar A Largo just doesn't really work. But if you have the time maybe you could buy some of Ivanka's jewelry, because you know she needs our support too! Any little bit would help.
75
Apparently, Appalachian Democrats weren't good enough to get Obamacare. Wonder why they turned on the DNC after having been sold out.
5
You have to sign up for it. Don't like it? Support single payer.
4
It's so so disappointing. They're nothing but liars an cheats. They don't care. They treat us like losers. They're never going to help us, they never were, and Trump is leading the charge.
All he cares about is lining his pockets, and taking, taking taking...
He'll never give a cent to anyone, ever. Why would he want to help the losers he thinks we are?
All he cares about is lining his pockets, and taking, taking taking...
He'll never give a cent to anyone, ever. Why would he want to help the losers he thinks we are?
36
Like Mr. VanSickle, I too have a "terrible, terrible feeling" multiple times a day - that T-rump is going to start a nuclear war before he is impeached. It's making me sick.
49
Once again liberal NYT readers - and I include myself in that group - are happy to vilify Trump voters as ignorant dupes. But that is exactly what the .1% think about us. While 99.9% of us are busy attacking each other the super wealthy continue to shovel more money (and therefore power) into their pockets.
Let's not spend our energy on being nasty to folks who are truly suffering. Instead read the great NYT's opinion piece from Trevor Noah in which he reminds us that a "Divided people are easier to rule". Then comes the hard part - how can we unite to reverse the continued growth of income/wealth inequality in this country. Until that happens we are all at risk of having an even worse predator elected President.
Link to Trevor Noah's piece:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/trevor-noah-lets-not-be-divid...
Let's not spend our energy on being nasty to folks who are truly suffering. Instead read the great NYT's opinion piece from Trevor Noah in which he reminds us that a "Divided people are easier to rule". Then comes the hard part - how can we unite to reverse the continued growth of income/wealth inequality in this country. Until that happens we are all at risk of having an even worse predator elected President.
Link to Trevor Noah's piece:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/opinion/trevor-noah-lets-not-be-divid...
35
I disagree. The Times, and other institutions that represent and encourage analysis and thought, must constantly fight against this environment created by the "originalist" theorists and politically powerful manipulators. I am certainly in agreement with Mr. Noah, but the reality is there isn't as much infighting as there is a stacked deck due to gerrymandering and Citizens United. These folks are the unfortunate result of the decades long ground game the Koch's and others have employed to change us from a democracy to an oligarchy. They voted the powerbase in and voted themselves out of a chance.
1
Well, I support getting these people better health care. That's fer sure.
But I am going to tell them, over and over, they brought this on themselves. They lack common sense. They've been had. They bought a pig in a poke, and I do mean a PIG. Might just ask if they want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn, or a bit of beautiful swamp land? And did they really think Elvis was kidnapped by a UFO (I know someone who talked with someone who heard of someone who saw it happen, on TV, on Fox News.
But I am going to tell them, over and over, they brought this on themselves. They lack common sense. They've been had. They bought a pig in a poke, and I do mean a PIG. Might just ask if they want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn, or a bit of beautiful swamp land? And did they really think Elvis was kidnapped by a UFO (I know someone who talked with someone who heard of someone who saw it happen, on TV, on Fox News.
3
That will happen when white men will not see blacks and other minorities as their enemies, but their brothers. But it seems that it's more important to white men that they dominate their brothers rather than embrace them. As long as they do, the smarter and more cunning members of our society will hammer the wedge in further.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The sad reality for working class republicans is that once they figure out they've been bamboozeled by Trump, McConnell, Paul Ryan and the rest of these weasels, it will be too late. God have mercy on them and the rest of us hard working Americans!
Hey coal miners, you big Trump supporters, listen up!
It's called "bait-&-switch". A promoter promises you the Moon in return for your hard-earned money then hands you a rock.
Trump promised coal miners jobs, jobs, jobs despite the fact that most coal country jobs were eliminated by automation long ago, not the so-called "War on Coal". They aren't coming back. He also promised you a healthcare system superior to the "Obamacare" you hated without quite understanding why. You hated it because you were told to hate it. And you hated it because Obama's name was on it. You should have known better.
Trump wasn't serious about any of it. He can't return jobs to coal country simply because it's beyond his power. It's simply too expensive to mine coal any other way. And he can't create a health care system suited to your needs because no one can given the ideological fracture in our country, now stuck at an impasse. Conservative Republicans see government involvement in the healthcare economic sector as opening a path to socialism. They reject that on ideological grounds. They prefer that you have no health care at all if it closes a pathway to socialism.
Promises, promises anyway -- promises Trump made knowing perfectly well that he couldn't deliver, as if he cared. In return for your votes he gave you a bill of goods, thanked you for your service and moved on to his next skin. Fleeced suckers aren't valuable after being skinned and that's what you are. Fleeced suckers.
It's called "bait-&-switch". A promoter promises you the Moon in return for your hard-earned money then hands you a rock.
Trump promised coal miners jobs, jobs, jobs despite the fact that most coal country jobs were eliminated by automation long ago, not the so-called "War on Coal". They aren't coming back. He also promised you a healthcare system superior to the "Obamacare" you hated without quite understanding why. You hated it because you were told to hate it. And you hated it because Obama's name was on it. You should have known better.
Trump wasn't serious about any of it. He can't return jobs to coal country simply because it's beyond his power. It's simply too expensive to mine coal any other way. And he can't create a health care system suited to your needs because no one can given the ideological fracture in our country, now stuck at an impasse. Conservative Republicans see government involvement in the healthcare economic sector as opening a path to socialism. They reject that on ideological grounds. They prefer that you have no health care at all if it closes a pathway to socialism.
Promises, promises anyway -- promises Trump made knowing perfectly well that he couldn't deliver, as if he cared. In return for your votes he gave you a bill of goods, thanked you for your service and moved on to his next skin. Fleeced suckers aren't valuable after being skinned and that's what you are. Fleeced suckers.
70
Thank you. Understanding this is the first step to recovery.
Canary in the mine, as a test for Trump, comes to my mind....
7
Slamming coal miners who voted for Trump doesn't help anything. They are likely in an area where the only media they get is Fox News and various shades of hate radio. That's been going on for decades. What are we going to do about it?
19
Martha: I heard a story on NPR within the past couple days about a town in an isolated Kentucky holler (sp?) where students are subjected to corporal punishment in school with the support of their parents. A couple of the youngsters interviewed said they preferred this over detention. It would seem that there's some cultural basis for this which helps them respect authority. Well, maybe these miners just need a good whoopin' to help them wake up.
Excellent perspective. I totally agree. I'm not sure what we can do about it, but there must be some kind of solution.
3
Masontown PA has TV stations run by CBS, ABC, and NBC as well as FOX. In addition they have access to public radio news. So, FOX is *not* their only media. It may be the only media they watch because of their own hatreds and prejudices.
2
Sad. But while working people die no doubt Paul Ryan is busy crafting a generous tax cut for the Uber Rich, so their is that compensation.
45
Data and evidence are devastating adversaries, while beliefs and opinions are seldom useful allies. Any of these Trump-voting miners who have dependents, whether ill children or retiring spouses, completely abdicated their basic responsibilities as parent or partner. It is incumbent upon them, no matter their beliefs, to protect their dependents, and they willfully ignored and violated that implicit oath. The most victimized here are the one third of that demographic that didnt vote Trump; they are dragged down by the intentional ignorance of the Trump voters. To paraphrase the old saying, it appears that these Trump-voters cut off their own noses to spite somebody else's face. Yes it's tough to watch, but the pain is truly theirs.
I'm not so withered in my understanding of my fellow citizens that I begrudge my tax dollars. They are still there waiting to help those in need, wherever that happens to be. Onward through the fog.
I'm not so withered in my understanding of my fellow citizens that I begrudge my tax dollars. They are still there waiting to help those in need, wherever that happens to be. Onward through the fog.
16
Is this another story about the American dream? Do we wonder when Americans will ever catch up to the rest of the world and introduce national health care for all? Quit playing policeman to the world, spending millions on bombs, and just see what those dollars can do toward health care.
Trump was just fine with removing 25 million people from their healthcare. Ironically, the only thing that stopped him was the Freedom Caucus, not because the plan was cruel, but because the plan wasn't cruel enough. Frankly, these miners were foolish to give their votes to Trump, something they'll find out soon enough.
47
Unfortunately, coal miners and many others, seemed to think Donald Trump was telling the truth when running for election. Although he said many times that he was an "outsider" and not a politician, he lied like the best of them. And now the miners are waiting and wondering when Trump will keep his promise.
I think it's very doubtful and I'm truly sorry about that.
I think it's very doubtful and I'm truly sorry about that.
Another example of Twain's quote " It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they've been fooled". Very sorry about the miner's plight. They've worked hard to earn an honest living, now in an industry that's dying.
17
Trump lied. His lies were blatent. These miners had a choice. They chose to ignore the lies told by Trump and about HRC. We now must live with the consequences of their deliberate willful ignorance. These miners have a lot to lament. The important question is will they atone or are they going to continue supporting Trump and his lies?
30
It's ironic, isn't it? Many of these miners who voted for Trump were union miners, and their union opposed Trump, but they didn't trust their union.... and they live in a place named Uniontown. I'll bet their daddies and grandpappies wouldn't have been so naive.
Still, I hope for the best for these boomer retirees, because I'm a boomer myself, retired from the auto industry. Maybe your union, if you'll support it again, will come up with what my union did... a VEBA retirement plan that will support you until you reach Medicare and then supplement your Medicare from that point on.
Of course, if this country ever got enlightened and went for a universal healthcare plan, a Medicare for all, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we? There's times even the Trumpster sounds like he thinks that is a good idea.
Still, I hope for the best for these boomer retirees, because I'm a boomer myself, retired from the auto industry. Maybe your union, if you'll support it again, will come up with what my union did... a VEBA retirement plan that will support you until you reach Medicare and then supplement your Medicare from that point on.
Of course, if this country ever got enlightened and went for a universal healthcare plan, a Medicare for all, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we? There's times even the Trumpster sounds like he thinks that is a good idea.
21
Call me cold, but I have no sympathy for people who voted for a man who may quite likely end up putting me and mine into the nuclear fires.
44
Trump was never the solution.
He tweets because that's the limit of his intellectual capacity.
Any utterance of more than 140 characters turns into word salad.
Trump never had any real or practical policies.
The GOP just rode him to power.
A few incoherent and hollow words that played to your aspirations were all it took to buy your vote.
Trump University ?
'Self Professor' Trump is certainly delivering a hard lesson to America.
But will you be smart enough to learn ?
It's unlikely, according to history.
A sense of compassion and basic human decency should see every American with access to excellent health care. Many other much poorer countries manage this. But even millions of avoidable deaths of your own citizens is not enough to move you to fix a health care system that is designed to make yet more money for the rich.
American success has been based on science and yet the Christian-dominated conservative right is busy trying to destroy science and fact-based policy.
America has never won a war it started. Starting them is easy but it's that messy bit at the end called making something better that always eludes you.
The GOP is a right wing party. Right wing parties always favour the rich so there's not much point in poor people voting for a right wing party.
You watch cartoons right ?
So you'll know all about Homer Simpson's signature line.
DOH !!
He tweets because that's the limit of his intellectual capacity.
Any utterance of more than 140 characters turns into word salad.
Trump never had any real or practical policies.
The GOP just rode him to power.
A few incoherent and hollow words that played to your aspirations were all it took to buy your vote.
Trump University ?
'Self Professor' Trump is certainly delivering a hard lesson to America.
But will you be smart enough to learn ?
It's unlikely, according to history.
A sense of compassion and basic human decency should see every American with access to excellent health care. Many other much poorer countries manage this. But even millions of avoidable deaths of your own citizens is not enough to move you to fix a health care system that is designed to make yet more money for the rich.
American success has been based on science and yet the Christian-dominated conservative right is busy trying to destroy science and fact-based policy.
America has never won a war it started. Starting them is easy but it's that messy bit at the end called making something better that always eludes you.
The GOP is a right wing party. Right wing parties always favour the rich so there's not much point in poor people voting for a right wing party.
You watch cartoons right ?
So you'll know all about Homer Simpson's signature line.
DOH !!
17
This is an example of what happens when one votes party before country.
31
The Dems should introduce legislation to help the miners retain their benefits.
Dare the GOP in both House and Senate to oppose it.
Dare the GOP in both House and Senate to oppose it.
22
"Sure, GOP, we'll work with you, under one condition: Bernie writes the bill."
7
smartest thing I read all day!
6
There is a law, the votes are there. McConnell won't let it come to the floor and Trump can't make Mitch do anything he doesn't want to do. Mitch owns Trump because of Gorsuch deal.
1
The song "Coal Tattoo" is as relevant today as it was when it was written:
I've stood for the union, walkin' the line,
Fought against the company;
Stood for the U. M. W. of A.
Now who's gonna stand for me?
I got no house and I got no pay,
Just got a worried soul;
And this blue tattoo on the side of my head
Left by the number nine coal.
Some day when I'm dead and gone to heaven, the land of my dreams.
I won't have to worry on losin' my job, on bad times and big machines.
I ain't gonna pay my money away on dues or hospital plans.
I'm gonna pick coal where the blue heavens roll and sing with the angel band.
I've stood for the union, walkin' the line,
Fought against the company;
Stood for the U. M. W. of A.
Now who's gonna stand for me?
I got no house and I got no pay,
Just got a worried soul;
And this blue tattoo on the side of my head
Left by the number nine coal.
Some day when I'm dead and gone to heaven, the land of my dreams.
I won't have to worry on losin' my job, on bad times and big machines.
I ain't gonna pay my money away on dues or hospital plans.
I'm gonna pick coal where the blue heavens roll and sing with the angel band.
7
The miners have been screwed - continuously - by the GOP, the mining companies and now Donald Trump.
They expected more from him?
For this they helped turn the election for Trump?
They expected more from him?
For this they helped turn the election for Trump?
61
They deserve these results for supporting a candidate who wouldn't support health care services for them.
22
No, we figured out, a few decades too late, that the DNC had sold us out.
1
Screwed by Trump? Why should these people have thought they had any more reason for Trump to come through for them than Trump did for any of his other employees, clients, or vendors?
52
If you place a bet in the Trumpet casino and you lose, you have nothing to complain about. You had your fun. Poked your finger in the eye of leftist liberals. Struck a blow against political correctness.
Now walk away from the table and nurse your wounds. If you can afford a nurse.
Fortunately, your hero did not succeed in killing ACA, which you will probably rely on until you die, while cursing "Obamacare" even on your deathbed.
Now walk away from the table and nurse your wounds. If you can afford a nurse.
Fortunately, your hero did not succeed in killing ACA, which you will probably rely on until you die, while cursing "Obamacare" even on your deathbed.
81
If you elect a known liar who has screwed the little guy all his life, why would you expect him to keep his promises to you? My heart bleeds for these people but it's hard not to feel that they brought this horror upon themselves if they voted for Trump.
68
I am unable to feel compassion for people who worked hard to make their misfortune so much worse.
20
The problem is, they've brought every one of the rest of us down with them. By voting for an obvious liar - obvious to even the dullest among us - they have sentenced everyone else the same sickness they're now whining about; along with poverty, homelessness, starvation, and quite likely a hideous, fiery nuclear death. Serves them right. They thought it was just fine to vote for Trump who ran on the promise of eliminating the ACA and throwing millions off their health insurance, because they had theirs. Well, welcome to the nightmare you created for the rest of us. They've earned their suffering, and they deserve it, if only as a way to begin to atone for their responsibility for the destruction of everything this country ever was, and every one of us in it. I am not gloating, I simply have no sympathy to waste on any of them; no, nothing more than the most profound contempt.
1
They couldn't bear the thought of a strong, intelligent woman being president, so they voted for the racist, xenophobic, misogynist grifter. They are now reaping what they have sown.
114
They believed Trumps lies.
1
So....Bet the vast majority of the UMWA voted for Trump...How's that Goin for Ya Now???
29
... no worse than Obama. At least Trump acknowledges our existence. Obama's followers continue to demand the destruction of our culture.
A shame you can't buy health insurance with all that "acknowledegment, eh ?
2
John....I was raised in a UMWA home and I know what the Union and the Democrats since FDR have done for the miners!!! The republicans don't give a good GDamn for the union or the workers....
4
Its all very tragic but I don't have a lot of empathy. Even if they thought he wasn't going to betray them, they heard his harsh words about people of color and women. Its not ok to vote for someone because you think he might help you if you know he's going to actively screw other groups that you don't belong to. The miners didn't get played, they played themselves.
90
Trump is a brilliant demagogue. As such, when those he has seduced and lied to find themselves without health insurance, in medical bankruptcy, yet still unemployed, Trump, like Hitler, will blame minorities and immigrants, and intellectuals, never himself.
Like a finely tuned engine, Trump's blame machine will recycle unemployed miners into Border Patrol officers who will take out their anger at the "illegals" who, according to the president, have ruined their country.
Like a finely tuned engine, Trump's blame machine will recycle unemployed miners into Border Patrol officers who will take out their anger at the "illegals" who, according to the president, have ruined their country.
28
I fear the new army of Trump ICE enforcers will resemble the Federal Marshalls of the 1950's and 1960's, but worse. Then, there were the Pinkertons. Trump seems to approve of violence as an enforcement strategy , from seeing his rallies. I would hope for a better fate for his out of work supporters.
7
You knew he was a snake when you picked him up.
58
@ L.B. Charlottestville, VA "You knew he was a snake when you picked him up."
I see what you did there.
I see what you did there.
1
I'm just glad I can help subsidize the life choices of straight white men that voted to hurt women, gays, and minorities. Is there anything else these guys would like from us? Can I bring him a glass of sherry or a squeeze of lime? We're here to serve!
44
Vote Mitch McConnel out to pasture. It's way past time.
51
Crooked lying Trump is a demagogue, and highly ignorant (of the willful type); 'do not cast pearls before a swine' is an appropriate remark for this unscrupulous and irresponsible narcissist. He promised you a rose garden, but the only one Trump cares about is himself. As to why so many folks voted for him remains a deep mystery.
14
A story like this (and there will be more) is heartbreaking accompanied by a range of emotions: Anger at the cold-blooded heartless Republicans representing these people; a pittance of the Federal Budget to maintain life saving insurance- but NO. Anger at the those desperately needing the help but willfully voted to cut their own throats by never bothering to examine what is said vs what is done.
Another emotion emerges; "this is what you get- suck it up": The last is the easiest to feel but engenders no real joy at the suffering caused by another example of the callous disregard by Republican *leaders*
Another emotion emerges; "this is what you get- suck it up": The last is the easiest to feel but engenders no real joy at the suffering caused by another example of the callous disregard by Republican *leaders*
20
Does anyone believe Donald Trump even has a clue about this situation?
18
I hope and pray that I live long enough to see working Americans stop voting for the con men, race-baiters, chicken hawks and greedy Bible-thumpers that make up today's Republican Party. But I'm not holding my breath.
48
There used to be a saying in elementary school: 'Too bad, so sad, you lose.'
Seriously, WHY did you all vote for the guy? Virtually everyone who knew him from NY said he was a liar and a con man. Fortunately, he's also an egomaniac, so it might be possible to embarrass him just enough to pull you back from the brink. You won't get your jobs or your healthcare back, but at least there will be a little lipstick on the pig.
Seriously, WHY did you all vote for the guy? Virtually everyone who knew him from NY said he was a liar and a con man. Fortunately, he's also an egomaniac, so it might be possible to embarrass him just enough to pull you back from the brink. You won't get your jobs or your healthcare back, but at least there will be a little lipstick on the pig.
27
Why do people who vote for small government and complain about government all the time feel entitled to a government handout when they get in trouble? You reap what you sow. It is not like the Dems did not help you out or try to explain the problems with Trump, but you folks bought the Fox News hook, line and sinker and spat it the face of the main stream media. You should learn never to trust someone who is not in the same boat as you are.
50
He only wanted your vote, you gave him that. He doesn't care about you anymore. I'm sorry for your health and hope it all works out but don't rely on this president. Lesson learned.
57
couldn't have said it better.
7
I do not know when these people who put their faith, hopes and dreams on a vote for Trump will get it.
He used you. He doesn't really care about you unless he needs you and then you are quickly forgotten when he's onto the next thing.
Actions speak louder than words, remember that?
You bought the lies, the fake news and the bluster of an incompetent liar and con artist.
I hope things work out for you all much as I hope that Trump doesn't destroy this country but he's been unleashed and he is hungry for attention so if you're not in the right line of his attention deficits and ego feeding needs then you may not see much help.
Prayer may help, maybe the Federal government will but when you vote, vote in your best interests when you've reviewed the real facts not fake news and phony concerns.
May all your dreams come true.
He used you. He doesn't really care about you unless he needs you and then you are quickly forgotten when he's onto the next thing.
Actions speak louder than words, remember that?
You bought the lies, the fake news and the bluster of an incompetent liar and con artist.
I hope things work out for you all much as I hope that Trump doesn't destroy this country but he's been unleashed and he is hungry for attention so if you're not in the right line of his attention deficits and ego feeding needs then you may not see much help.
Prayer may help, maybe the Federal government will but when you vote, vote in your best interests when you've reviewed the real facts not fake news and phony concerns.
May all your dreams come true.
Perhaps the most poignant comment made by many is the use of Trump's 'sad.' Sad.
13
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
Look, Donald Trump, hist family, and Washington republicans don't care about working people whom they regard as ants. Little brown bugs scurrying around; doesn't matter if they live or die the next moment.
But the price some of these people will pay for not paying attention and not thinking for themselves is too too high for the mistake they made.
Look, Donald Trump, hist family, and Washington republicans don't care about working people whom they regard as ants. Little brown bugs scurrying around; doesn't matter if they live or die the next moment.
But the price some of these people will pay for not paying attention and not thinking for themselves is too too high for the mistake they made.
24
I saw a bumper sticker once.
It said, "If you think that education is expensive, wait til you see how much ignorance will cost you."
I guess they don't have that one in "coal country", right?
So, here's a hint on how to save money: install solar panels like they have at the "Coal Museum" in Harlan County. It will save you thousands.
You knew what Trump was going in.
You know exactly who McConnell is.
You knew exactly who Ryan was, too.
They all told you exactly who they were.
You voted for them anyways.
Sorry, but you'll be circling the drain about 2 seconds before me.
I'll give you a wave as I pass by.
It said, "If you think that education is expensive, wait til you see how much ignorance will cost you."
I guess they don't have that one in "coal country", right?
So, here's a hint on how to save money: install solar panels like they have at the "Coal Museum" in Harlan County. It will save you thousands.
You knew what Trump was going in.
You know exactly who McConnell is.
You knew exactly who Ryan was, too.
They all told you exactly who they were.
You voted for them anyways.
Sorry, but you'll be circling the drain about 2 seconds before me.
I'll give you a wave as I pass by.
40
Trump will now ask; "Who knew that coal mining would make you sick?
22
We all knew this promise was hot air, populism at work is easy to sway those just scraping by. Like a preacher on a pulpit speaking to believers except afterlife is right now.
11
It is difficult to defend or feel sorry for someone who refuses to admit they were wrong. Especially when they, the sucker, become angry with me and call me unprintable names because I was for Hillary.
Try respecting others and being honest with others - and yourself.
Then tell someone how you understand and respect them because you now realize that they were right.
I won't hold my breath.
Try respecting others and being honest with others - and yourself.
Then tell someone how you understand and respect them because you now realize that they were right.
I won't hold my breath.
“To me, that was kind of a promise he did make to us,” Mr. VanSickle said about Mr. Trump, whom he supported last fall. “He promised to help miners, not just mining companies.”
Ho, ho, ho.
Ho, ho, ho.
20
Trump understands and shares these miners' pain and is sympathetic to their suffering. Which is why he will be sending a truckload of signed red MAGA hats to Pennsylvania and Kentucky to show his support, and express his gratitude for the votes.
20
They voted for a liar and now they have no one to blame but themselves. The sad part is that they would rather listen to Republican promises of going back in time rather than Democratic progressive ideals.
22
Clearly coal miners voted for the wrong presidential candidate. Not only are the Trumpster and the GOP hoping to kill the Affordable Care Act/ObamaCare, but they bought Trumpster's lies about Obama killing the coal industry, when it was the "alternative to coal", i.e., fracted gas, that killed coal. Coal miners would be wise to support candidates who will help them and their kids move onto skilled jobs in renewable energy, or else, God forbid, move to Wyoming or Texas and frac gas.
9
I understand that Mitch McConnell is holding this up because a buddy of his who happens to own a coal mining company does not want it. Why do citizens of Kentucky vote for McConnell who is so clearly beholden to the bosses?
27
This must be that "freedom from government interference in our lives" that the Republicans are espousing.
I don't know why these miners though Trump cared about them, he cares about the coal company owners but not the workers. He made clear, repeatedly, that he would repeal the ACA and has appointed billionaires and millionaires who want to block grant Medicaid, voucherize Medicare and privatize SS all in order to finance large tax breaks for the super rich (and so Wallstreet can get richer off the retirement dollars locked up in SS). Why would you think he cares about a medical program, public funded, for coal miners. He's ripping up the safety net across the board. Just because you are white (the reason you voted for him) doesn't mean you are protected. To get favored status in the Trump administration you have to be super rich.
19
I'm sure that Mitch McConnell is on top of this and has the perfect solution. Seriously, any person that voted for Trump and put us in this messed up state is not something I am going to spend one minute worrying about. They knew what they were getting.
14
Come on....give up golf, Fox and Friends, and tweeting to solve health care (which is more complicated than he expected). There were many people running for POTUS who would have put the work in. This isn't one of them.
11
This isn't just about Trump. You see, Mr. Van Sickle, the republicans don't want government involved in health cared. You are supposed to spend $20,000 plus annually to a private insurance company so that its executives can wallow in wealth.
22
You're right Robert! Republicans don't have a government-sponsored health insurance plan, don't have a government-sponsored education plan, don't have a government-sponsored infrastructure plan, because REPUBLICANS DON'T DO GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED PLANS. Couldn't come up with one if they tried--and they did try with the "American Health Care Act". It was a joke. Thank God it didn't pass.
All the Republicans want to do is cut taxes on the rich. That's the plan!
All the Republicans want to do is cut taxes on the rich. That's the plan!
4
How many of the 20,000 losing their insurance will renounce their vote for Trump and admit they were taken in by a con man? How many will continue to vote Republican against their self interests? According to recent articles in the Times about Trump voters "regret", it's likely to be zero.
20
Promising to “put our miners back to work”, was one of the most heartless statements to come out of the Trump campaign. Now, it's getting even more cruel and unusual. Get back to work in the mine, just don't expect any health insurance.
My grandfather was a coal miner. He died of black lung disease shortly before I was born. So I never got a chance to meet him. Maybe better working conditions, and better health care might have made a difference back then.
By the way, the Kentucky Coal Mine Museum in Harlan County Kentucky just went solar. So, don't talk to me about "bringing back coal".
My grandfather was a coal miner. He died of black lung disease shortly before I was born. So I never got a chance to meet him. Maybe better working conditions, and better health care might have made a difference back then.
By the way, the Kentucky Coal Mine Museum in Harlan County Kentucky just went solar. So, don't talk to me about "bringing back coal".
24
I come from a mining family (silicosis killed my father). So, I can understand what these miners are afraid of. But they voted for a snake oil salesman and noW they will just have to treat black lung, etc. with Trump-branded snake oil (highest quality on the market - SEE SPECIAL OFFERING AT MAR-A-LEGO WEB SITE).
19
Mr. Scheiber seems amazed and astounded by the CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) machine demonstrated by Mr. VanSickle. In fact, it is a medical device in very wide use today by many more people than those with mining-related breathing problems. It is a medieval device that inflates the head to keep breathing passages open that would otherwise close at the onset of sleep. But the medical community views it as a "good enough" solution to obstructive sleep apnea, since surgery is painful and may not help at all.
As more boomers are diagnosed with OSA, perhaps there will be an effort to find a better solution than CPAP.
As more boomers are diagnosed with OSA, perhaps there will be an effort to find a better solution than CPAP.
4
money going towards government accountants working on trumps never ending audit.
3
Coal miners deserve health care (as do all people), but Republicans will never think that you do. Vote in YOUR interest - you deserve to live without the worry of being without health insurance. I wish the best for all of you.
8
“It perfectly lined up with the 2018 election,” said Senator Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, the Senate’s leading proponent of a permanent resolution. "
So says the *Democrat* who rarely (if ever) votes with his party- preferring to remain a steadfast and loyal GOP surrogate.
So says the *Democrat* who rarely (if ever) votes with his party- preferring to remain a steadfast and loyal GOP surrogate.
10
People are gullible, which is why we are continually conned, which is why we vote for the candidate that promises everything and asks for nothing, which is why we continue to believe the unbelievable. In a way, it is a defense mechanism, as it gives us hope and what do we have if we don't have hope?
3
This is a terrible situation. It would be easy to blame people for voting in Republicans who are opposed to helping anyone except the wealthy. That would be cruel. They are clearly suffering and in need of assistance. I suggest everyone reading this article and the people in need of medical care continue to call, write letters and March on Washington DC. Every vote at every level of government is important. Make a lot of noise in your district, state and in DC.
3
Exhibit A:
Trump was obviously a liar - not a matter of allegations or relying on fact-checkers (with whom he rated very low in truth) but the words from his own mouth which were contradictory from day to day, denying that he had said something previously that was on video etc., and promises that he would obviously not be able to keep even if he wanted to - and they chose to believe him instead of Hillary, whose promises/statements were cohesive and rated high in truth by fact-checkers.
Exhibit B:
Miners' pay and benefits and safety regulations were as good as they were because of their unions; conservatives were interested in weakening unions, for 'right to work', in weakening the safety net, weakening regulations (health, safety, environment), yet the miners voted for them.
Exhibit C:
Trump promised to bring back coal, an industry that is on the decline for various reasons, none of which have to do with Obama, and which is more and more mechanized. Hillary promised to provide jobs in up and coming industries, effectively breaking the hold (hostage) that mining has on the region for generations. So, they voted for Trump.
There are plenty of articles like this going around and I'm starting to get fatigued from feeling bad for people who are suffering from their own bad decisions and were complicit in giving the rest of us Trump.
Trump was obviously a liar - not a matter of allegations or relying on fact-checkers (with whom he rated very low in truth) but the words from his own mouth which were contradictory from day to day, denying that he had said something previously that was on video etc., and promises that he would obviously not be able to keep even if he wanted to - and they chose to believe him instead of Hillary, whose promises/statements were cohesive and rated high in truth by fact-checkers.
Exhibit B:
Miners' pay and benefits and safety regulations were as good as they were because of their unions; conservatives were interested in weakening unions, for 'right to work', in weakening the safety net, weakening regulations (health, safety, environment), yet the miners voted for them.
Exhibit C:
Trump promised to bring back coal, an industry that is on the decline for various reasons, none of which have to do with Obama, and which is more and more mechanized. Hillary promised to provide jobs in up and coming industries, effectively breaking the hold (hostage) that mining has on the region for generations. So, they voted for Trump.
There are plenty of articles like this going around and I'm starting to get fatigued from feeling bad for people who are suffering from their own bad decisions and were complicit in giving the rest of us Trump.
16
Unfortunately, Trump was willing to verbally side with the "little people" in so many ways while running for office. But there is nothing in his history that shows that he truly cares and wants to improve the lives of citizens who are other than himself - wealthy and privileged. I did not support Trump, believe we should be investing in renewable energy, not an industry that has been dying for 30 years, but to leave these men and their families without proper health coverage is horrendous and outright dishonest on the part of Trump and the Republicans who supported him.
8
Miners have it tough. They've always had it tough. But, to read how local politicians stand in the way of renewing health care benefits leaves me with a feeling of disgust. Men, who should be viewed as constituents and fellow citizens, are treated like serfs or peons, with their lives constantly being threatened by their political overlords. And in the end, all I can think of is that life would be so much easier for all Americans if we had a single payer health care plan like every other developed nation.
If the federal taxpayer is going to subsidize post retirement health care for anyone, it needs to be means tested. The benefits were negotiated by the unions and the unions elected to promote more current pay in lieu of contributions to the benefits trusts. So there isn't enough money to pay for Medicare supplements with zero co-pays for all time.
There are funds set aside for remediation of abandoned coal mines. The funds are likely inadequate. To siphon off the interest being earned on those accounts to fund anything else mean that the taxpayer will be on the hook for additional costs. It is a joke to suggest that those funds should be redirected.
Medicare and Medicaid are sufficient to cover medical costs for all/
Twenty five percent of the male population over the age of 50 has sleep apnea, which has zero to do with black lung disease. The CPAP Mr. VanSickle uses costs about $800 and has a five year life. Replacement masks and other consumables cost $100-$200 per year, assuming no insurance.
The hospital and other providers may have billed $50,000 for Mrs. Leach's hip replacement, but the health plan paid out less than 60% of that cost. Had the Leach's purchased an ObamaCare policy, they would have been out-of-pocket at most their out-of-pocket maximum of $6,000, the same as everyone else who has an ObamaCare or employer provided health insurance. Their beef is with the union that manages their multiemployer benefits plan, not the federal government.
There are funds set aside for remediation of abandoned coal mines. The funds are likely inadequate. To siphon off the interest being earned on those accounts to fund anything else mean that the taxpayer will be on the hook for additional costs. It is a joke to suggest that those funds should be redirected.
Medicare and Medicaid are sufficient to cover medical costs for all/
Twenty five percent of the male population over the age of 50 has sleep apnea, which has zero to do with black lung disease. The CPAP Mr. VanSickle uses costs about $800 and has a five year life. Replacement masks and other consumables cost $100-$200 per year, assuming no insurance.
The hospital and other providers may have billed $50,000 for Mrs. Leach's hip replacement, but the health plan paid out less than 60% of that cost. Had the Leach's purchased an ObamaCare policy, they would have been out-of-pocket at most their out-of-pocket maximum of $6,000, the same as everyone else who has an ObamaCare or employer provided health insurance. Their beef is with the union that manages their multiemployer benefits plan, not the federal government.
6
"Responsibility for the retirees’ health plans has increasingly shifted to the federal government in recent years, as struggling coal companies have shed their liabilities in bankruptcy court."
1) If students can't shed liabilities in bankruptcy court, why are coal companies allowed to skip out?
2) If life threatening liability transfers aren't an argument against both state and corporate rights, why are my federal tax dollars paying for them?
3) If Mitch McConnell's own state can't hold the Senator to account, how do they expect to gain anything from Donald Trump?
1) If students can't shed liabilities in bankruptcy court, why are coal companies allowed to skip out?
2) If life threatening liability transfers aren't an argument against both state and corporate rights, why are my federal tax dollars paying for them?
3) If Mitch McConnell's own state can't hold the Senator to account, how do they expect to gain anything from Donald Trump?
10
Blame the Victim is featured in a notable number of these comments, when the real issue is keeping promises about pensions and health care. Blame the Victim is one of the most effective antidotes to Sympathy, which results from feeling another human being's pain. Normally, sympathy elicits help and prevents cruelty. That's why harsh/cruel policy comes with a heavy serving of Blame the Victim.
It's only human to blame the victim but do the right thing and push hard to extend health care for the miners as a matter of justice. What is Agent Orange's excuse for not doing the right thing? A good question for 2018.
It's only human to blame the victim but do the right thing and push hard to extend health care for the miners as a matter of justice. What is Agent Orange's excuse for not doing the right thing? A good question for 2018.
2
These "victims" voted for Trump. They got what and who they voted for.
Mr. Trump has been consistent in at least one area: he has consistently shafted those who gave their vote instead of massive checks to the Trump election effort.
We see the abandonment of gravely ill coal miners.
Separately, Mr. Trump's abandonment of those who drove his electoral college victory include;
a ) farmers who have for years sold $2.4 billion of yellow corn to Mexico. In
response to Mr. Trump's statements and deeds, Mexico is seeking other countries to replace the massive amount of yellow corn that Mexico had been buying from US farmers.
b ) dairy farmers have already lost $150 million from Canada cheese processors seeking other sources of supply of milk to replace US produced milk as a result of Mr. Trump threatening NAFTA.
c ) in the fatally flawed ACA replacement bill, 24 million insured US citizens would be dumped so as to fund $880 billion in tax reductions to wealthy donors.
d ) as rural communities find that their only source of physicians are foreign trained doctors, the visa constraints of the Trump Administration has virtually blocked some 4,000 foreign trained doctors from accessing residencies in US hospitals, a requisite for practice in the US. Many rural communities without a physician will become ghost towns as residents die and evacuate the area.
We see the abandonment of gravely ill coal miners.
Separately, Mr. Trump's abandonment of those who drove his electoral college victory include;
a ) farmers who have for years sold $2.4 billion of yellow corn to Mexico. In
response to Mr. Trump's statements and deeds, Mexico is seeking other countries to replace the massive amount of yellow corn that Mexico had been buying from US farmers.
b ) dairy farmers have already lost $150 million from Canada cheese processors seeking other sources of supply of milk to replace US produced milk as a result of Mr. Trump threatening NAFTA.
c ) in the fatally flawed ACA replacement bill, 24 million insured US citizens would be dumped so as to fund $880 billion in tax reductions to wealthy donors.
d ) as rural communities find that their only source of physicians are foreign trained doctors, the visa constraints of the Trump Administration has virtually blocked some 4,000 foreign trained doctors from accessing residencies in US hospitals, a requisite for practice in the US. Many rural communities without a physician will become ghost towns as residents die and evacuate the area.
18
What did these miners expect to happen? They voted for a man who acts like a 21st century Robber Baron. No different than the 19th and early 20th century Robber Barons who took advantage of and profited from previous generations of coal miners in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and Ohio.
13
Coal has been responsible for the suffering and death of millions. It is a poison, yet humans seem to take centuries to learn from their mistakes - they still haven't abandoned tobacco. It is totally irresponsible for any government or person to support coal in any way. We never learn.
5
Trump is an opportunistic fraud. He always has been and always will be. Look at his so-called healthcare plan--not only will it not help the people who need it the most, including these miners who have had some relief through Obamacare, it will make things dramatically worse for them. Trust in Trump at your own peril.
8
If Mr. VanSickle and the others in this article voted for Trump and other Republicans, they have no one to blame but themselves. Now they want the rest of us to bail them out for their poor, uninformed decision to vote for Trump.
As they say, "Voting has its consequences." and, "Be careful of what you wish for -
you just might get it."
As they say, "Voting has its consequences." and, "Be careful of what you wish for -
you just might get it."
11
They were warned and they persisted. A variation on the line from Kentucky's very own Senator Mitch "War on Coal" McConnell, and a refrain we will hear in a variety of contexts in the Trump era.
9
I actually think trump will try to help them because (and only because) they are the "poster" trump supporters. Even though he clearly is only interested in making money for his family and the lobbyists invading the expanded swamp, he does still need his core supporters who have a high tolerance for unethical behavior.
Welcome to post election reality. And they really believed Trump when he said he would help workers! Trump only helps the rich get richer (including himself).
9
The mythology about American prosperity and exceptionalism is beginning to unravel. We get misty eyed over campaign speeches and TV spots - by both parties - that laud blue collar workers and service members as the heart and soul of the nation. Then, we relegate them to the scrap heap as soon as they are no longer vital to our economic engine or national security. We should be ashamed of ourselves and our "leaders."
75
Donald Trump and the Republicans don't care about the miners.
Why should I?
Why should I?
13
Why should you care, V? It's simple. Because they're people; because they're hard-working Americans; because what they had been promised for their work us being yanked like a rug from under their feet, leaving them hung out to dry, through no fault of their own.
Maybe another reason is because if, as a nation, we sacrifice our communitarian obligations on the altar of personal avarice, then we are not a nation; we are a basket of greedy individuals.
In five decades of US history, nobody, anywhere at any time has ever been able to count on Donald Trump's support for anyone but Donald Trump. May the nightmare end in 2020. That depends on us.
USA! USA! USA!
Maybe another reason is because if, as a nation, we sacrifice our communitarian obligations on the altar of personal avarice, then we are not a nation; we are a basket of greedy individuals.
In five decades of US history, nobody, anywhere at any time has ever been able to count on Donald Trump's support for anyone but Donald Trump. May the nightmare end in 2020. That depends on us.
USA! USA! USA!
3
Why the surprise, really?
41
trump promised to "Bring back Coal."
In his mind that means big profits for the guys in suits with bad haircuts. Those jobs will be plentiful, as long as you're willing to work in unsafe conditions for a cut in pay and be responsible for your own health problems. Don't like it? Get another job.
Anyone who believed anything else wasn't paying attention.
In his mind that means big profits for the guys in suits with bad haircuts. Those jobs will be plentiful, as long as you're willing to work in unsafe conditions for a cut in pay and be responsible for your own health problems. Don't like it? Get another job.
Anyone who believed anything else wasn't paying attention.
66
Appears that healthy miners outnumbered sick ones and the healthy ones decided to put their faith in Trump. So this situation pitted healthy miners and mining companies against sick ones. This won't be the only conflict of this type with Trump.
23
Because of the stupidity of people like these we must all suffer from the idiot conman in the Whitehouse. Sorry not sorry miners. You got what you should have expected.
30
Conned by a Conman
17
As I read Ellen, a person with family in WVA, things were so desperate that they voted for someone who they knew, deep down, was a liar
Imagine the decade failure of the Democratic party to bring people to that state
Imagine the decade failure of the Democratic party to bring people to that state
6
I fail to see how this is the fault of the Democrats. So sick of the "Thanks Obama" nonsense.
3
Nice try, deflecting blame. Unless you include yourself as part of the problem.
7
Because it couldn't possibly be their own racist, misogynistic, hillbilly stupidity, could it?
These folks were given lifelines they they took for granted. As WV has trended redder and redder, the lives of it's people have gotten worse. And they haven't hesitated to vote for people who will screw all the rest of the people they don't like.
Imagine that.
These folks were given lifelines they they took for granted. As WV has trended redder and redder, the lives of it's people have gotten worse. And they haven't hesitated to vote for people who will screw all the rest of the people they don't like.
Imagine that.
10
These people allowed themselves to be taken in by con-artist Trump and the GOP. If they had just bothered to read about Trump and GOP policies, maybe they would not be facing the likely loss of government-funded health benefits.
20
One reason I'm a liberal is I don't believe a mistake should condemn someone to death, or destroy their family.
I believe that applies to coal miners, too. It's easy to tell people they were stupid and we told 'em so. Feels good. Doesn't help build a majority for a better America, though.
They were suckered by a true pro. He's suckered global banks, why not coal miners desperate to preserve a way of life?
I believe that applies to coal miners, too. It's easy to tell people they were stupid and we told 'em so. Feels good. Doesn't help build a majority for a better America, though.
They were suckered by a true pro. He's suckered global banks, why not coal miners desperate to preserve a way of life?
82
Suckered by a pro? He contradicted himself on video day to day, but even without that obvious evidence or checking his statements, it was obvious to a LOT of us that he was a charlatan as soon as he opened his mouth.
4
Mr. Camarda, your first line is one of the best reasons I've ever heard for a citizen to be a liberal. The reason you give--"I don't believe a mistake should condemn someone to death, or destroy their family--is the same reason that I don't believe in government-sanctioned capital punishment. And for the same reason, I don't wish for Trump's supporters to suffer under his presidency. Their mistake--voting for a con man--will certainly make them, and the rest of us, suffer. But I don't wish for it to happen. Besides, enjoying the suffering of others seems to be a conservative thing.
1
What makes it hard to sympathize with these people is that they put everyone else in the exact same position. They heard Trump's hateful rhetoric against every group imaginable and cheered; cheered his vow to end health insurance for millions. They keep McConnell in Congress, and Paul Ryan's evil plans to eliminate the safety net have been pushed since 2010 yet still they voted for the grifter and his thugs. They were conned because they didn't care for anyone but themselves. They CHOSE to vote for a man who vowed to harm others, as long as they benefitted. They were conned due to their own selfishness. Yes, I believe in unity, everyone caring for one another. That's what society is supposed to be, what taxes and government are for, it's how America used to work before the GOP began dismantling it. We ALL contribute toward basic needs and services for everyone and to protect the vulnerable ones. They didn't want that. They voted for the division, for a man who vowed to harm everyone but them, trample the rights of those they didn't like. Now they're upset to be among the targeted yet they expect those whom they were so anxious to sacrifice to feel sympathy? Because they'll suffer the same fate they so willingly sent us to? And they'd do it again if they thought it would get them what they need. They created the rift. Let them feel our pain.
1
Trump is an obvious charlatan.
McConnell is worse in a deeper, more fundamental way : he'll cravenly string these poor souls along with extensions merely for the expediency of their vote.
But, clearly, he'd cut them off in a heart beat were it not for that.
At some point, don't voters in Kentucky get nauseated by his chronic hypocrisy ?
McConnell is worse in a deeper, more fundamental way : he'll cravenly string these poor souls along with extensions merely for the expediency of their vote.
But, clearly, he'd cut them off in a heart beat were it not for that.
At some point, don't voters in Kentucky get nauseated by his chronic hypocrisy ?
134
Possibly the nastiest, most destructive man in Congress.
Says something about Kentucky voters?
Says something about Kentucky voters?
11
He'll blow his racist dog whistle, lie about Planned Parenthood and brag about stealing the SCOTUS seat for Gorsuch and they will line up for him, and he knows it.
7
If you didn't see DT coming, paid no attention to how he runs his business on win/lose contracts for every transaction, his corrosive language, attitude and willingness to personally destroy others in order to "win", then let this be the first step in learning and understanding. DT is like candy when he is conning, feels good at the time but has no lasting value. All those pieces of candy he continues to throw are becoming violations of trust . Win/lose is a non-sustainable solution . Are you sick of DT's form of winning yet?
53
Folks watched The Apprentice and believed the reality show was the real Donald. Unfortunately, the outtakes were kept from the American Public by Trump's producers, hoping to keep the franchise going.
Let's be brutally honest. Some "straight talk" if you will.
Most of these folks are in dire straits because they are easy marks. It's like they have kick me signs permanently stuck to their backsides. Except they put those signs on themselves every morning. And they therefor go through life be kicked and conned.
Trump has taken advantage of the gullible his entire life. The one single operating business he ever tried to run (unsuccessfully to say the least) was a casino - a place where the gullible are legally fleeced.
These folks knew they were voting for a self dealing grifter and a natural born liar. But once again, they went for the easy answer. And they have lost again. I do believe that many of them would still hand over their last few dollars for a space in Trump "University" had it not been shut down in a fraud case!
Should we try to help them or should we try to empty whatever trivial amounts are left in their pockets? I really wonder. They don't seem to recognize or appreciate honesty or reality. It's hard to help folks like that. Their lot in life will never change because they are natural born suckers.
Most of these folks are in dire straits because they are easy marks. It's like they have kick me signs permanently stuck to their backsides. Except they put those signs on themselves every morning. And they therefor go through life be kicked and conned.
Trump has taken advantage of the gullible his entire life. The one single operating business he ever tried to run (unsuccessfully to say the least) was a casino - a place where the gullible are legally fleeced.
These folks knew they were voting for a self dealing grifter and a natural born liar. But once again, they went for the easy answer. And they have lost again. I do believe that many of them would still hand over their last few dollars for a space in Trump "University" had it not been shut down in a fraud case!
Should we try to help them or should we try to empty whatever trivial amounts are left in their pockets? I really wonder. They don't seem to recognize or appreciate honesty or reality. It's hard to help folks like that. Their lot in life will never change because they are natural born suckers.
114
Instead of trashing the downtrodden why not propose something to help them since, I agree, Trump won't
Seems quite simple. Retraining for those young enough and subsidies for those who are ill or incapable of working or learning something new.
Let's make America compassionate again!
Come on, get positive!
Seems quite simple. Retraining for those young enough and subsidies for those who are ill or incapable of working or learning something new.
Let's make America compassionate again!
Come on, get positive!
2
This is a very cruel and cynical analysis. Clearly, Trump is a liar and a grifter and he and McConnell used the miners. But I don't really see them as "not appreciating honesty"; quite the opposite, they obviously are trusting people who expected Trump and the republicans to keep their word. This story suggests that there are some places where people actually still deal in good faith, and expect others to do so as well. I thought that didn't exist any more.
2
And if we do help these folks will the vast majority of them continue to support the Republican party and Trump in their efforts to destroy the ACA Medicare and Medicaid leading to the sufferings and deaths of still many others?
10
Betrayed and abandoned--by the man they voted for, his party, and the companies they worked for and helped to enrich. What an appalling amount of suffering lies ahead for them...unless someone grows a conscience. The signs are not promising...
54
I have confidence the federal government will come through for the miners, but not until there is a new administration. They bought the lies and voted for a charlatan. So now they get to suffer the slow drip of short-term extensions, if they are lucky. They demanded change, and change is most certainly what they got.
32
By the time a new admin comes in, it will be too late for many of these guys.
6
I'm still mystified that anyone, anywhere believed a single word that Trump said. What has he ever done in his entire life to help anybody but himself, and maybe his kids?
I am sorry these people are suffering such uncertainty on top of their serious ailments, but Trump's character has been plain to see for decades.
I am sorry these people are suffering such uncertainty on top of their serious ailments, but Trump's character has been plain to see for decades.
144
If you are wretched, desperate & angry, you will believe anything. Trump's election was an October Revolution with less bloodshed; look how well that turned out. It's a great pity more was not done 10-30 years ago to prevent this happening. I understand partisan rivalry, jealousy & racism all played a part in undermining any efforts to do so, but the whole US is going to pay the price. Just like Russia in the 20s & 30s.
These miners are suffering from diseases - black lung being one of them - that flourished prior to any regulations. Even so, these regulations that were put in place to protect the miners are on the deregulation chopping block. And now the rivers, streams and air can be polluted again bringing more health issues to the mining community. Please explain how any of this is helpful to the miners.
65
It weeds out the competition for remaining jobs?
When things were going wrong in Czarist Russia, the average peasant would pin all the blame on the local officials and proclaim, "If the Czar only knew!" It seems that the same type of sentiment has crossed an ocean and a century or two with the descendants of those peasants who used to mine coal for a living. If the President only knew, then he would surely help us!
The President doesn't know, and he doesn't care. His first, last and only concern is for himself and those to whom he is related by blood and marriage. Certainly not to some poor saps in Fayette County, Pennsylvania who were foolish enough to trust him to be on their side.
The President doesn't know, and he doesn't care. His first, last and only concern is for himself and those to whom he is related by blood and marriage. Certainly not to some poor saps in Fayette County, Pennsylvania who were foolish enough to trust him to be on their side.
92
Although [Tony Brnusak] agrees with Mr. Trump on some key issues, not least climate change, he can’t conceal his disappointment that the health care issue has lingered for so long.
“I thought he was really going to help people,” Mr. Brnusak said, referring to Mr. Trump. “He’s helped the rich man, the coal operators. But nothing for us so far.”
Moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for (and vote for), because you might get it.
“I thought he was really going to help people,” Mr. Brnusak said, referring to Mr. Trump. “He’s helped the rich man, the coal operators. But nothing for us so far.”
Moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for (and vote for), because you might get it.
34
“I thought he was really going to help people,” Mr. Brnusak said, referring to Mr. Trump. “He’s helped the rich man, the coal operators. But nothing for us so far.”
Mr. Brnusak, Trump helps no one but himself and maybe his family. The GOP, in its current state also helps no one unless they are rich, are a CEO, or if it's a corporation with deep pockets that will support their re-election. People like you and I count for nothing in their political calculus. We are only the means to an end which is getting themselves into office and then keeping themselves there.
Mr. Brnusak, Trump helps no one but himself and maybe his family. The GOP, in its current state also helps no one unless they are rich, are a CEO, or if it's a corporation with deep pockets that will support their re-election. People like you and I count for nothing in their political calculus. We are only the means to an end which is getting themselves into office and then keeping themselves there.
78
Well as the stories continue to pile up about witless Trump voters suddenly facing the harsh realization that Trump was lying to them, and his promises meant nothing, I keep having the same reaction.
Trump folks, y'all got mad because you thought elitists, liberals, and the government kept assuming y'all were really dumb. And you voted for a lying loudmouth, bigoted and fascist, in rebellion against this perceived oppression.
Well, y'all are really dumb, sorry. Seems you couldn't spot the lies, didn't see how ignorant and unintelligent Trump was, and now it's getting clear that you were ripped off.
This is why people thought poorly of your levels of intelligence, because that estimate is accurate. The best thing y'all can do is try to get educated, belatedly, and stop voting Republican. Failing that, best to stop voting at all, and just acknowledge you have no idea what's going on and no analytical ability.
As for the coal miners that will die early because Trump is cutting their health programs, votes have consequences and I hope they all voted for this. And they can at least take heart that many, many more people will die due to Trump's idiocy, they're not alone.
Trump folks, y'all got mad because you thought elitists, liberals, and the government kept assuming y'all were really dumb. And you voted for a lying loudmouth, bigoted and fascist, in rebellion against this perceived oppression.
Well, y'all are really dumb, sorry. Seems you couldn't spot the lies, didn't see how ignorant and unintelligent Trump was, and now it's getting clear that you were ripped off.
This is why people thought poorly of your levels of intelligence, because that estimate is accurate. The best thing y'all can do is try to get educated, belatedly, and stop voting Republican. Failing that, best to stop voting at all, and just acknowledge you have no idea what's going on and no analytical ability.
As for the coal miners that will die early because Trump is cutting their health programs, votes have consequences and I hope they all voted for this. And they can at least take heart that many, many more people will die due to Trump's idiocy, they're not alone.
142
I agree that they voted for someone who would clearly not help them and they should have known better, But surely you can see that it diminishes you to gloat over their misery.
1
Excellently said.
2
Thanks Tombo, I try.
And dear Troglomorphic, I understand your point, but sorry that it came out that way, I'm not gloating. I'm not happy that these people are going to suffer. But my instant reaction to this continuous surprise by Trump voters that Trump was lying is, well they must be very unintelligent. And life's not easy when one is not intelligent, I know.
So I'm more resigned to their suffering than wishing they would suffer, if that makes sense.
And dear Troglomorphic, I understand your point, but sorry that it came out that way, I'm not gloating. I'm not happy that these people are going to suffer. But my instant reaction to this continuous surprise by Trump voters that Trump was lying is, well they must be very unintelligent. And life's not easy when one is not intelligent, I know.
So I'm more resigned to their suffering than wishing they would suffer, if that makes sense.
1
Trump has a nice bridge he will sell you also.
30
At the risk of sounding like a teenager but..... told you so?
It's only been 90 days since Trump took office. Give it some time. Obama did nothing for 8 years. Besides, right now Trump is getting the Chinese to pressure N Korea (something Obama could never achieve).
Fake news.
Fake news.
1
True, all Obama did was save us from a great depression (Stimulus), give millions of people life saving health insurance (ACA), keep coal companies from destroying our nations waterways,....
yeah, not much at all
PS: he avoided a situation leading to nuclear warheads detonating in Seoul
PPS: you do recall, maybe once or twice, the GOP congress maybe in a small, slight way, said NO ?
yeah, not much at all
PS: he avoided a situation leading to nuclear warheads detonating in Seoul
PPS: you do recall, maybe once or twice, the GOP congress maybe in a small, slight way, said NO ?
62
Also, he saw to it that the 'intelligence' folks actually found Bin Laden, and then had him killed. In person, not just with drone strikes.
I'm pretty certain that petty dictators around the world noticed that Obama was willing to quietly execute bad guys when he thought it would be effective.
I'm pretty certain that petty dictators around the world noticed that Obama was willing to quietly execute bad guys when he thought it would be effective.
4
Actually, during the Obama administration, China was persuaded to back serious economic sanctions against N. Korea, due to its nuclear program, and to vote against against N. Korea in the U.N. It is untrue to say that "Obama did nothing for 8 years" re China. In fact, he continued the policies of the Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2 administrations.
4
I simply have no sympathy. The miners wanted to believe a man who was a racist, hater, and an unethical cheat rather than some woman. Good luck on your health care guys. Sometimes you get exactly what you wish for.
79
Perfect time for Democrats to show some GENUINE compassion and regain the confidence of these people. Trashing them won't help. They simply made a huge mistake.
1
JB,
Democrats in Congress will vote for the money, no matter what. That never has been a question. They don't expect "thank yo" though.
Democrats in Congress will vote for the money, no matter what. That never has been a question. They don't expect "thank yo" though.
Usually, the same old Trump-apologists jump in to defend him...where are they in this string of comments?
38
They're on vacation in the Caribbean. If you're rich you never have to say you're sorry, you lied, or that you made your money the old fashioned way, by cheating everyone you could.
33
Anyone who paid attention saw years ago that Donald Trump was a lying, thieving grifter, a narcissist, misogynist and racist. He cares about nothing but being the centre of attention. He is woefully and dangerously unqualified to be President and gives every indication of being a genuinely repellant human being.
And all of this has been clear for decades from his ever public statement and action.
But, you know, Hillary's emails...
'Sad!' doesn't begin to describe the damage this man is causing every day.
And all of this has been clear for decades from his ever public statement and action.
But, you know, Hillary's emails...
'Sad!' doesn't begin to describe the damage this man is causing every day.
151
Stop voting against your own interests. Nuff' said
44
It has been known for ten years that the multiemployer pension plans as well as the post retirement health insurance plans are under funded. Ten years ago, they should have migrated away from the zero co-pay system to one that was less costly. Both sets of plans are managed by the unions, which elected to underfund the trust funds in order to increase current wages.
The employers paid what the labor contracts obligated them to pay, which was insufficient to cover the future benefits promised by the unions.
The employers paid what the labor contracts obligated them to pay, which was insufficient to cover the future benefits promised by the unions.
1
Trouble is, when people are desperate, they grasp at straws and con men.
Knowledge is power. Educate the electorate!
Knowledge is power. Educate the electorate!
1
Good luck, guys. Maybe you should get Fox and Friends to run a picture of some dying miners. If Trump is watching, he may decide you are worth a thought or two.
Otherwise, you got him elected, he thanks you for that, and what was your name again?
Otherwise, you got him elected, he thanks you for that, and what was your name again?
32
"Government-funded healthcare" you say? Socialists! Takers! Moochers! Enemies of the free enterprise system! Why do these miners hate America so much? The terrorists are winning. Sad.
20
These guys were promised a pipe dream and they bought it, hook, line, and sinker. You got what you deserved, crooks looking out for their pals first. Enjoy.
15
I'm very sorry for the plight of the miners. Please, wake up. You've been used, AND abused. Spread the word, inform your neighbors and, especially the local news stations about what is happening.
This is the latest sorry example of the state of American health care.
Medicare For ALL - 2020. PEROID.
This is the latest sorry example of the state of American health care.
Medicare For ALL - 2020. PEROID.
26
Those 65 and older, as well as those who have been collecting SSDI for two years or longer are eligible for Medicare. The deal that they have is far superior to Medicare for all.
Medicare has a 20% co-pay and no out-of-pocket maximum. Be very careful what you wish for. Your employer provided health insurance is far superior.
Medicare has a 20% co-pay and no out-of-pocket maximum. Be very careful what you wish for. Your employer provided health insurance is far superior.
2
Well, yes. But Medicare is certainly better than NOTHING. My parents love their Medicare. Seriously.
1
For the Miners: Please, don't be embarrassed to admit you were wrong. For supporting Trump. He's made a career out of fooling many, many people. Think about your children, and Their Children. The only shame is to continue being conned, when you KNOW better.
33
To all the miners who voted for Trump, just keep telling yourself "He alone can fix it." Because a stupid slogan is about all you're going to get from him.
Elections have consequences. Trump lied to America during his campaign and most people knew it yet millions deluded themselves to think that they would somehow be better off with Trump. Surprise, surprise. You were wrong and now you must suffer for your foolishness. I'm sorry for the situation you find yourselves in but hey, you voted against your own best as so many often do. I don't have much sympathy for that.
18
The miners and their communities voted for 45, let 45 take care of them.
29
You're finally realizing you have been duped by a master salesman lacking empathy for you and your fellow miners. I hope the President and his Republican lawmakers don't take all your health benefits away.
13
The Flim-flam artist they voted in as president just stiffed them. Surprise, surprise!
Funny that this is the generation shouting "Won't get fooled, again!!" for the past 40-years. And, yet, again...they got fooled. To quote another Brit - "...and it makes me wonder."
4
This story pinpoints the heart of injustice and false promises at the core of the Trump regime.
6
Lesson learned. I think not. Something tells me they will vote for the next republican that comes along once again.
25
I hate to say it, but these Republicans are reaping from their sowing.
13
As a Kentuckian, I have watched the politicians of our state consistently work against the citizens both in Frankfort, the state capitol, and in Washington. It is always amazing to me that "studying" the Univ of Ky wildcat ball teams, knowing all stats about the players, the games etc is considered important information. Not so important is giving even half that effort into learning about the issues & the records of McConnell, Rand Paul, Matt Bevin, the governor, or legislators. Fox "news" is always on public TVs screaming denigration & hatred at every Democrat, especially "that black man", Obama. It is so much easier to, and possibly more fun, to be angry at the very people who truly want to help rather than let someone else, Mexicans, blacks, women, also have a helping hand. Trump spewed hatred and lies throughout his campaign for all to hear, yet, hatred and jealousy of an educated, hard working woman was more important to the voters than asking themselves who's record stood for helping others? Republicans have investigated Hillary for decades without finding her guilty of any wrongs, yet bill dodging, slandering, bullying Trump is believed to even the score for all of life's disappointments. So, get rid of Obamacare, but keep ACA or is it AHCA? or ASPCA, AARP? Whatever, just get rid of all those "other" people we hate! We do hate the same people, don't we? Trump'll protect us, right??
51
Why didn't Obama address the problem during his eight years in office?
Ebmem,
Obama gave them ACA which they use a lot, and approve at 60%.
They hate Obamacare though.... go figure.
Obama gave them ACA which they use a lot, and approve at 60%.
They hate Obamacare though.... go figure.
2
Where's the outrage?
Lament? Really.
Lament? Really.
1
The plan in question has an equal number of union- and company- trustees. It is designed to provide pre-Medicare retiree health benefits and supplemental-Medicare benefits -- benefits virtually no one other than government employees receive.
The failure of the fund is at least 50% the responsibility of the union trustees who failed to adequately fund these benefits. Taxpayers should not be on the hook to make whole private sector benefits, bargained in good faith, when the two parties lack the will/ability/competence to meet their commitments.
The failure of the fund is at least 50% the responsibility of the union trustees who failed to adequately fund these benefits. Taxpayers should not be on the hook to make whole private sector benefits, bargained in good faith, when the two parties lack the will/ability/competence to meet their commitments.
3
Conned by Don the Con. The voters need to examine past actions not just promises about a rosy future. This also applies to everyday life encounters. If anything is taught in schools, it should be simple economic reality and critical thinking.
9
Given the human cost in terms of miner illnesses and the environmental devastation of coal, every time I hear "bring back coal jobs," my next thought is "bringing back coal jobs is unethical."
America must do better and find creative solutions to the shorter-term need for financial security to protect the longer-term human and environmental consequences of coal mining. Its the right thing to do.
America must do better and find creative solutions to the shorter-term need for financial security to protect the longer-term human and environmental consequences of coal mining. Its the right thing to do.
6
It sounds like the miners have great medical benefits. I truly wish we all could have lifetime benefits for simply being employed. And, yes, I agree that it's a dangerous occupation, but then so are many other occupations where retirees don't get those generous benefits. Sadly, those who chose to vote for a businessman/huckster whose only concerns are himself, his family, and his businesses are now paying the price. Those who are suffering and will continue to suffer may want to reconsider their voting choices in the future and not vote against their own financial interests.
12
Trump's mendacity, hypocrisy and unstable narcissism were on full display for anyone to see during the campaign. All one had to do was look and listen and understand the implications of his multiple cons. Next time folks, pay attention. I mean, really pay attention.
23
There used to be thousands of lamplighters employed across the country (as well as in Europe) in the nineteenth century, dutifully light the gas street lamps every dusk and extinguishing them every dawn. With the beginning of the use of electricity, their jobs were gone forever. I never heard of a politician who said that "we need to put the lamplighters back to work".
Time to move on (with good health care to help out).
Time to move on (with good health care to help out).
34
These (and the rest of Trump supporters) deserve whatever loss of support that they may get. The rest of do not.
8
Unless Congress acts this month, benefits will end.
I can't think of any worse hands for the fate of one were to rest. My sympathies are with them. Or shall I say condolences?
I can't think of any worse hands for the fate of one were to rest. My sympathies are with them. Or shall I say condolences?
7
We should tax carbon and use to money to retrain and support displaced coal workers, especially sick ones.
8
Trump is a businessman. Run the country like a business. Maximize the profitable, the management. Get rid of the unprofitable, the unproductive, the drags on our society. The people who just want free stuff.
The GOP platform for a century. Pretty clear to me.
The GOP platform for a century. Pretty clear to me.
10
you will be one of the first let go. straight to a death camp.
pretty clear to me.
pretty clear to me.
Not quite sure what one should say to folks who want the return of a job that will ultimately ruin their health. I mean, should I really hope more miners can ruin their lungs and otherwise ravage their bodies for a few bucks?
Is life not worth something more?
Is life not worth something more?
I don't see why coal miners should receive special treatment from the President or Congress. A majority of them voted for Mr. Trump and other Republicans, whose stated intention it is to roll back gov't financing of healthcare. Under the stalled Trumpcare/Ryancare proposals, millions of Americans who currently receive subsidies that enable them to bridge the gap between early retirement and age 65 will see steep increases in healthcare costs.
Elections have consequences, and these coal miners must live with their choice of Donald Trump. They don't deserve supplemental healthcare coverage, while millions of other Americans are priced out of the healthcare market under Trumpcare. Aside from the very wealthy, we all need to learn how to eat cake under this President.
Elections have consequences, and these coal miners must live with their choice of Donald Trump. They don't deserve supplemental healthcare coverage, while millions of other Americans are priced out of the healthcare market under Trumpcare. Aside from the very wealthy, we all need to learn how to eat cake under this President.
30
The question is, even when people are kicked about and lied to, would they vote for Trump again? Sadly some of them would.
17
"Sadly some of them would." Actually, nearly all of them would, as long as they can keep their racist, sexist, xenophobic buffoon in office.
4
Did Mr. VanSickle really think/believe that Trump was concerned about him when promising to restore the coal industry? Trump's concerns are for owners and other plutocrats, not workers.
Elections have consequences and, sometimes, you really do get what you voted for...
Elections have consequences and, sometimes, you really do get what you voted for...
29
Obviously, the wealthy do not want to pay for the lives of miners.
8
Sorry for the gallows humor: they've all been dealt the trump card.
Real, non-propagandized education is the first defense against tyranny.
These miners were defenseless without those critical thinking skills & the ability to question & deconstruct the neoliberal hustlers' con sales.
Real, non-propagandized education is the first defense against tyranny.
These miners were defenseless without those critical thinking skills & the ability to question & deconstruct the neoliberal hustlers' con sales.
$2 Billion over 10 years? Seems less than "modest" to me.
3
I the face of overwhelming evidence that these people were voting against their own interests, they did so anyway. I wonder if they will have learned a lesson by the next election cycle. I doubt it.
14
This ought to be front-page news instead of the garbled junk that keeps sloshing around the airwaves in the name of 'free' speech. These miners who, against their own interests, were duped to vote that rich boy into the highest office in the land are among the first real tragic heroes - and there will be more - in the travesty the country's elites have sold them as a 'democratic' presidential election based on real issues. Trump will not help them out of their plight if the federal expenses required would run counter to his affluent cronies' own interests. And that is the new law of the land.
21
Coal miners, if they are lucky, work long and hard in a terrible black hole, yet voted for a man who doesn't work at all in his gilded penthouse. The irony is overwhelming.
41
“I thought he was really going to help people." Sadly, not much thinking was involved, one reason why people continually vote against their own self interest. These Trump voters not only hurt themselves, they have hurt millions of innocent Americans. The suffering will last for a long time.
18
Look, to be fair, Trump only promised to get the miners back to work, not to do anything for any former miners with health problems.
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, once a miner becomes too old or too unhealthy to work they magically transform into whining freeloaders in the weird world of today's Retrumplican party.
They should not expect any help from Trump, McConnell, Ryan or their band of ideologues. The best they can hope for is that the Democrats eke out something for them in the face of a wall of opposition from the majority party..
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, once a miner becomes too old or too unhealthy to work they magically transform into whining freeloaders in the weird world of today's Retrumplican party.
They should not expect any help from Trump, McConnell, Ryan or their band of ideologues. The best they can hope for is that the Democrats eke out something for them in the face of a wall of opposition from the majority party..
25
Oh no, but those Democrats are the ones they blame.
1
I have always been amazed that coal miners could look at where they live and not be angry. If I were in their position I would look at where Demented Donny lives, in Florida and NYC, and be angry. I would be equally enraged that my children would spend their lives in the squalor resulting from coal mining.
Every miner's life, as well as their children's, would be improved by the shuttering of all the coal mines throughout the world; Demented Donny is making a mint with his "concerns" for miners' employment.
Every miner's life, as well as their children's, would be improved by the shuttering of all the coal mines throughout the world; Demented Donny is making a mint with his "concerns" for miners' employment.
23
Why doesn't anyone ask what the benefit is to working for 20 years until disability arrives and you live on federal assistance in a diminished capacity. These miners did that work for the benefit of all who used coal fired electricity. As coal is phased out, we should seek to care for the health of miners, even if their companies went bankrupt rather than fulfill its contractually obligated problems.
7
“I thought he was really going to help people,” Mr. Brnusak said, referring to Mr. Trump. “He’s helped the rich man, the coal operators. But nothing for us so far.”
I wish I understood what made Mr. Brnusak and others fall for the flimflam that was the only content of Trump's campaign speeches.
I wish I understood what made Mr. Brnusak and others fall for the flimflam that was the only content of Trump's campaign speeches.
22
It is sad to see the many comments showing little sympathy for the miners. Mining is a tough life, and miners seem pretty uncritical about the what candidates are promising. However, this is a small issue compared to things like job elimination by robots. If you look only at truck drivers themselves, that is 3.5 M people possibly outmoded by robotic trucks in a few years. Large numbers compared to the 15,900 miners. People replaced by robots will also be very eager to sort through the wild promises of politicians, and its pretty important that they choose correctly. How can we make sure that this huge group of voters is able to sort out what is a solid promise. Curiously, people like Elizabeth Warren both understand these issues and are capable of fixing them if given support. How do you get truck drivers to not dismiss the Elizabeth Warrens out of hand?
10
Yes, the now-President did promise to bring back mining jobs. Every miner who knows or knew no other way of life heard that clearly, it seems. What none seem to have heard clearly was that he also promised to 'cut regulations by 50%' (however one quantifies that, maybe pages in each agency's handbook). The implication never being that miners, as humans, would be protected vis a vis their health insurance and retirement. Rather, that jobs would be 'saved' by the Faustian bargain of sacrificing regulations that were paid for, every single one, by miners' lives and body parts. What, in that wretched equation, implied that (expensive, regulation intensive) healthcare would be involved as a balm for that pain?
21
Yes, that's what we want for ourselves. More of those great jobs in coal mines where you end up with a life-threatening illness after twenty years of hard, dangerous work.
10
The coal companies that declared bankruptcy and discharged their healthcare obligations to the miners? I'd love to see an article about what the various owners retired with, both money and benefits--probably much more than $200 million per year :(
23
My grandfather died in a mine accident. On November 8 I realized that I care more about miners than the miners care about themselves. In the last 4 elections, coal country voted Republican. They got what they wished for. And I am all out of sympathy.
53
Still reading the same old selfishness from these folks. They want empathy for their suffering while disregarding the suffering of others. Here I sit, crossing paths with this sort ocassionally, completely unwilling to reach out until I see some concern for others.
23
Like so many others I feel awful for the coal miners. Industries change with the times without much regard for those left without jobs or worse ill.
This is another reason we need universal health care.
Tying your hope to a conman like Trump is also understandable.
This is another reason we need universal health care.
Tying your hope to a conman like Trump is also understandable.
Re: “He promised to help miners, not just mining companies.” For the sake of these miners, one hopes the president will intervene before month-end. BUT, if he does, the President might run into interference from GOP conservatives who adhere to an ideology of 'non-government regulation' and 'free markets' that permit coal mine operators and other businesses to use and discard their employees at will. These retired miners need to understand that GOP conservatives do NOT have miners' best interests at heart.
18
What a nightmare. Trump voters have been easily led astray. Many have reveled in tearing down the system without doing the research on the clowns that they hoisted into office.
As a scorned bleeding heart liberal I am not exactly sure how to feel but I can say that I feel just a bit less sorry for some of these people than I would normally. I cannot see how anyone would have thought that things were going to be better under this president. This is a loose/loose and there will be suffering in all corners. Sad and frustrating.
Trumplandia may not have gotten what it wanted but, it is getting what it asked for. Now I am being asked to continue to feel badly for a group of angry white voters that still don't give a hoot about the environment, women rights or equality among other things. This may be a bridge too far.
As a scorned bleeding heart liberal I am not exactly sure how to feel but I can say that I feel just a bit less sorry for some of these people than I would normally. I cannot see how anyone would have thought that things were going to be better under this president. This is a loose/loose and there will be suffering in all corners. Sad and frustrating.
Trumplandia may not have gotten what it wanted but, it is getting what it asked for. Now I am being asked to continue to feel badly for a group of angry white voters that still don't give a hoot about the environment, women rights or equality among other things. This may be a bridge too far.
27
Awful lot of people in here saying "told you so..." I hate Trump... despise doesn't come close... maybe loathe, but this is a perfect opportunity to show some sympathy, regardless of who they voted for... to maybe live by example instead of patting ourselves on the back for be so right... just maybe?
1
Dude, I think your post goes both ways. Their lack of empathy for fellow Americans is why Trump is in office today.
21
Dude, liberals WILL vote for these money, if you have any grasp on reality in this country.
1
I do have sympathy for the miners, who worked an impossibly dangerous and tough job.
Your jobs were lost to the market, and to modernization of our energy sources.
Your health was wrecked by a tough, dirty job.
Your healthcare was saved by Barack Obama.
Donald Trump has *nothing* to give you but hot air in return for your votes -- he cannot reverse the energy market, and he will not save your healthcare.
You voted for a billionaire who never did a day's hard work. Sorry you misplaced your trust.
Your jobs were lost to the market, and to modernization of our energy sources.
Your health was wrecked by a tough, dirty job.
Your healthcare was saved by Barack Obama.
Donald Trump has *nothing* to give you but hot air in return for your votes -- he cannot reverse the energy market, and he will not save your healthcare.
You voted for a billionaire who never did a day's hard work. Sorry you misplaced your trust.
484
I'm sure it's hard enough to watch an industry that was your livelihood die a slow painful death, but it's even harder to watch family and friends do the same.
It has to be frightening to realize that there won't be another industry to provide employment for your communities. It's easy to see why one would take a chance on anyone who provided even a remote glimmer of hope of helping return some employment. I mean retraining is wonderful, but meaningless if no one needs those skills.
So now, not only do these folks continue to see their industries and communities waste away along with family and friends, they will watch them go faster without any help.
It's the proverbial rock and hard place scenario, and it doesn't look like it will end well. Frankly I think what 45 has done is the equivalent of torture. Clinton's comments were brutal on coal, but they were honest.
It has to be frightening to realize that there won't be another industry to provide employment for your communities. It's easy to see why one would take a chance on anyone who provided even a remote glimmer of hope of helping return some employment. I mean retraining is wonderful, but meaningless if no one needs those skills.
So now, not only do these folks continue to see their industries and communities waste away along with family and friends, they will watch them go faster without any help.
It's the proverbial rock and hard place scenario, and it doesn't look like it will end well. Frankly I think what 45 has done is the equivalent of torture. Clinton's comments were brutal on coal, but they were honest.
50
And Clinton sat down and talked with them after her comments. She also had a plan to introduce solar energy programs, have people retool through free education, including trade schools, and improve Obamacare, which certainly would have resulted in universal healthcare, a platform of hers going back more than 20 years. She talked about all of this on the campaign trail, but many did not listen and became distracted by fake news regarding "emails."
38
Support these retired miners, Mr. President. This is why universal health care is essential. We need Medicare-for-all, but right now support health care for retired miners.
23
Elections have consequences my friend, the last I heard Trump never made any promises of healthcare to miners, all he promised was to bring mining jobs back, and so far he has signed an executive order to bring coal mining back.
3
But you seem to forget about his promise to have healthcare that was "cheaper, better, and would cover all". That has vanished into thin air, just like his other promises. Why people believe what candidates say rather than their historical pattern of action is beyond me.
13
Donald Trump promised the coal miners he would bring their jobs back, and Hillary did not. Which one is looking dishonest now? Which one got rewarded for their lies?
154
The" conned" are begining to figure it out. SAD
79
When are these guys going to take personal responsibility for their lives? They chose to be coal miners because of the good pay.
32
They chose it because it was "good pay" in the context of whatever else was available and in most cases it wasn't much. It was good work in terms of pay and benefits. It was and is still a nasty brutal job under dangerous conditions ...ones that shorten lifespans and often leave miners, crippled, with decreasing benefits, and often dead.
And worse yet, the industry leaves a long-term legacy of pollution. Pittsburgh, in many cases seen as a beacon of urban rebirth in the turnaround after the closing of the steel industry in this region, still ranks as 9th worst in the nation for small particle air pollution and the region must deal with polluted runoff from old and abandoned mines, aging coke plants, remaining coal fired power plants (thankfully shutting down in the face of free market competition from gas) and now methane leakage and ground water pollution from the fracking industry that has taken its place. The beneficiaries of the coal industry have always been the owners and operators....the workers....much less so.
And worse yet, the industry leaves a long-term legacy of pollution. Pittsburgh, in many cases seen as a beacon of urban rebirth in the turnaround after the closing of the steel industry in this region, still ranks as 9th worst in the nation for small particle air pollution and the region must deal with polluted runoff from old and abandoned mines, aging coke plants, remaining coal fired power plants (thankfully shutting down in the face of free market competition from gas) and now methane leakage and ground water pollution from the fracking industry that has taken its place. The beneficiaries of the coal industry have always been the owners and operators....the workers....much less so.
12
They also chose to be coal miners for many reasons AND because they were promised a lifetime of medical benefits. The unions negotiated -in good faith - that there would be a promise kept to the miners. The current and former miners are no more abdicating their personal responsibility than any victim of a robbery, medical condition or car accident.
6
These guys knew the risks going in. Their fathers had black lung and their grandfathers had black lung. They're not victims of robbery or accident. Their lack of promised coverage is really a tort or contract issue which should be handled in court. If the employer has gone out of business, then it's really an issue of the union not negotiating for adequate back-up insurance or re-insurance. They live well when they were young, with summer homes and even boats.
1
My grandfather worked in the mines in West Virginia when he was younger. He gave it up and moved to Cincinnati. He died about 50 years ago and did not talk about his time in the mines. What is interesting is Vietnam era veterans are in the same place as these miners. I am so glad that we had a president who was the president of all the people and did what he could to help all of us. I do not see trump doing that.
52
Gee, please tell me this is not a surprise. Everyone who is feeling let down by Trump had plenty of evidence that it would happen. No, it was more than that - ALL the evidence from Trump's past makes it clear that he has used others for his personal gain and then abandoned them.
It's funny, in a way, how HRC, the one most hated by Trump voters, was the one who would have taken the best care of them.
It's funny, in a way, how HRC, the one most hated by Trump voters, was the one who would have taken the best care of them.
419
True, but HRC ignored and insulted them.
Ah those 'good' coal mining jobs. Who wouldn't want to live in a hole and die 20 years earlier from black lung? Good thing Trump is bringing them back. Maybe he can bring back those good Asbestos scraping jobs too.
183
Like an overmined seam of coal, my sympathy for these miners has gone dry.
If they wanted health care, they should have thrown in their lot with the candidate that offered a plan for it.
If they were concerned about Medicare benefits, they should not have supported the party that is salivating for the chance to gut it.
If they wanted an honest shot at a future, they should not have bought into a candidate--and party--grounded in lies and invocations of the past.
The photo of the miner's lost finger is sad and tragic, but he should raise the part that remains as a gesture to those who are undermining (no pun) his future, and vote where his real interests lie.
If they wanted health care, they should have thrown in their lot with the candidate that offered a plan for it.
If they were concerned about Medicare benefits, they should not have supported the party that is salivating for the chance to gut it.
If they wanted an honest shot at a future, they should not have bought into a candidate--and party--grounded in lies and invocations of the past.
The photo of the miner's lost finger is sad and tragic, but he should raise the part that remains as a gesture to those who are undermining (no pun) his future, and vote where his real interests lie.
433
Sorry to read of the mean-spirited approach you take. If indeed these particular miners' votes had defined who would be elected president, then you have a point. But whether they were misled, misguided, fooled. played, or pick the term of your choice, they are not responsible for the state this country is in. Can't you have sympathy for those who do not have your clarity of vision?
3
It is not a mean spirit, it is war.
We are under attack from a small cadre of privileged elite who are playing with loaded dice, from gerrymandering to highly-targeted marketing tactics. The results are affecting OUR global environment, OUR basic laws and rights, and the lives of millions of us who are not part of the precious few.
These miners have the same single vote that I have, and each is responsible to the tune of one vote. Any sympathy from me ("awww, poor miners!") will not save their health plans nor my clean water or air.
So, I'll spare any sanctimonious emotions and exercise a little tough love instead.
We are under attack from a small cadre of privileged elite who are playing with loaded dice, from gerrymandering to highly-targeted marketing tactics. The results are affecting OUR global environment, OUR basic laws and rights, and the lives of millions of us who are not part of the precious few.
These miners have the same single vote that I have, and each is responsible to the tune of one vote. Any sympathy from me ("awww, poor miners!") will not save their health plans nor my clean water or air.
So, I'll spare any sanctimonious emotions and exercise a little tough love instead.
5
The problem with this approach is that these are the poorly educated voters that Trump loves so. I agree completely that this is behavior we have been seeing since the Reagan era, of lower income Americans voting for Republicans (mainly) who enact legislation that is undermining these same voters' economic security. But in many cases these "values" voters have families who suffer, the downstream consequence being that our nation suffers. I don't have any such "aw, poor miners" attitude. But neither sanctimonious emotions nor gloating get us anywhere. I am not clear how people can be educated who refuse it, but there were plenty of well-off people who voted for Trump. These people deserve more scorn than the impoverished and undereducated. Let's not leave out the Republican politicians who can see as clearly as anyone that Trump is not good for the country but who see his presidency as a way to advance their narrow interests.
I don't have enough schadenfreude in my heart to say "told you so" to these miners. Trump's presidency is a travesty, a disaster, and an embarrassment. We all deserve better.
255
I hope the NY Times will follow up on this issue, and these people, in 3-6 months after the clock's ticked down, Trump's silence has played out. and miners have digested their new reality. I'd be interested to see their comments then.
299
What odds will you give that they will all vote for the Republican candidate in the 2018 midterms? That is, of course, if they bother to vote at all. Never, EVER, underestimate the ability of the American voter to vote against his or her own best interest.
6
Who cares what they think? They already voted. Damage is being done to them and us. Thanks for helping ruin the country and dragging us into the swamp with you.
3
If you believe in a Trump promise, you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny. Do you expect good faith from a man who built his fortune on stiffed contractors and bankruptcies?
205
The miners bought the empty promises of Comrade Trump. It saddens me terribly that the miners chose to remain willfully ignorant, and they were easy bait for Judas.
We make choices in life mostly for the sake of our families and our children's future. education is the gate to freedom from poverty. Judas understood you had no respect for that concept. He chooses to pretend he is anti- science for personal gain. The miners chose to buy Trump's pie in the sky invisible plans for them. What on earth does it take for the miners to believe that they were duped by Judas aka Donald Lying Trump? They elected a tax dodger, a deadbeat, a sexual predator, and a traitor to his country. It is deliberate and foolish to believe that Judas was on their side. The miners had ZERO evidence to believe that Judas was truthful & that he would not betray them, as he has everyone else throughout his lifetime. The miners have created a legacy of profound betrayal themselves. They have betrayed their children and their children's children.
We make choices in life mostly for the sake of our families and our children's future. education is the gate to freedom from poverty. Judas understood you had no respect for that concept. He chooses to pretend he is anti- science for personal gain. The miners chose to buy Trump's pie in the sky invisible plans for them. What on earth does it take for the miners to believe that they were duped by Judas aka Donald Lying Trump? They elected a tax dodger, a deadbeat, a sexual predator, and a traitor to his country. It is deliberate and foolish to believe that Judas was on their side. The miners had ZERO evidence to believe that Judas was truthful & that he would not betray them, as he has everyone else throughout his lifetime. The miners have created a legacy of profound betrayal themselves. They have betrayed their children and their children's children.
74
Lets be patient, NYT. There are still 11 days to go in April.
6
Enough time to be shamed into doing the right thing...
4
Thanks to the many people who didn't look at recent history before they voted, we are saddled with a "This way to the Egress" President.
38
I have sympathy for miners (my great-grandfather was a coal miner in northern WV and southeastern Ohio, and died of lung disease in the late 1950s), but the picture of Mr. VanSickle with his "machine" is misleading. While mining does no one any favors, that is a C-PAP machine, which can be used by anyone with sleep apnea. (I have one, as my doctor insisted that not getting treatment would lead to a heart attack in the middle of the night some day.) Your writer really took liberties implying that this is the sort of fate that awaits miners. Unless your writer saw Mr. VanSickle's medical records and the diagnosis said that his sleep apnea was caused by mining-which honestly I doubt.
25
Do you know Anything about black lung disease?
3
Yeah, I thought that was a C-PAP and thought, way to over-dramatize...not to diminish the guy's health problems.
It's literally covered in the article. He needs while sleeping due to his black lung. How could you claim the writer took liberties when you haven't even read the article?
Mr. VanSickle, ... suffers from black lung, a condition associated with long-term exposure to coal dust.
He manages the illness by attaching himself to a breathing machine that essentially props open the airway to his lungs while he sleeps.
Mr. VanSickle, ... suffers from black lung, a condition associated with long-term exposure to coal dust.
He manages the illness by attaching himself to a breathing machine that essentially props open the airway to his lungs while he sleeps.
8
Three words: single payer healthcare.
100
As someone who's family has worked in the mines in West Virginia, I do feel for these people. It would be terrifying to have a serious medical condition and not know if you will be covered in the future. But, thanks to Trump and the Republicans, that is the case for millions of Americans.
They voted for Trump, a known liar, on the belief that he was not lying about things that would benefit them. They voted for him knowing that he repeatedly ripped off his blue-collar workers. They repeatedly elect politicians like Mitch McConnell who want to cut funding for social safety net programs that they themselves benefit from. Therefore, while I do feel for them, I feel for those who voted for Hillary Clinton and are getting screwed over more.
They voted for Trump, a known liar, on the belief that he was not lying about things that would benefit them. They voted for him knowing that he repeatedly ripped off his blue-collar workers. They repeatedly elect politicians like Mitch McConnell who want to cut funding for social safety net programs that they themselves benefit from. Therefore, while I do feel for them, I feel for those who voted for Hillary Clinton and are getting screwed over more.
698
CORRECTION?
" .. Mr. VanSickle, who has breathing difficulty, attaches himself to a machine that essentially props open the airway to his lungs while he sleeps .."
NYTimes editors -- that's a CPAP device, one of the most popular medical devices today.
http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/sleep-apnea/print.html
A google shows no "hits" about a direct link between CPAP and coal mining. The Times needs to provide Web links to make that point, doesn't it?
" .. Mr. VanSickle, who has breathing difficulty, attaches himself to a machine that essentially props open the airway to his lungs while he sleeps .."
NYTimes editors -- that's a CPAP device, one of the most popular medical devices today.
http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/sleep-apnea/print.html
A google shows no "hits" about a direct link between CPAP and coal mining. The Times needs to provide Web links to make that point, doesn't it?
1
Who said there was direct link between CPAP machines and coal mining? What is your point? Have you been drinking?
4
I agree with you, Ellen. I have limited sympathy for ignorance. Every state has access to their PBS station and most libraries have access to newspapers, like the NY Times. A little research, especially with so much skin in the game, would certainly be warranted.
3
Welcome to the real world. And you reap what you sow; sorry to say, the miners asked for this.
While I don't begrudge them fully paid health benefits, I won't have those when I retire at 62 and I too have worked hard for over 40 years...and I have a serious health problem (cancer.)
Anyone who believed that a Republican President and Congress would strengthen the social safety net is just so sadly misinformed.
While I don't begrudge them fully paid health benefits, I won't have those when I retire at 62 and I too have worked hard for over 40 years...and I have a serious health problem (cancer.)
Anyone who believed that a Republican President and Congress would strengthen the social safety net is just so sadly misinformed.
271
sad to say that you should have judged this man on his character rather than his words.
90
I thought he was really going to help people,” Mr. Brnusak said, referring to Mr. Trump. “He’s helped the rich man, the coal operators. But nothing for us so far.”
So far he's helped the companies, but not the workers. And how many of these guys are suffering from black lung? You know, those safety conditions couldn't even prevent that.. coal needs to go.
So far he's helped the companies, but not the workers. And how many of these guys are suffering from black lung? You know, those safety conditions couldn't even prevent that.. coal needs to go.
52
Trump's support of coal miners was a campaign insider's joke; he was never serious about assisting these workers or re-opening close or idle mines. Anyone who thought otherwise was delusional.
There's one other public figure -- a politician who rivals Trump for his cynical dismissal of coal miners. That would be Mitch McConnell.
There's one other public figure -- a politician who rivals Trump for his cynical dismissal of coal miners. That would be Mitch McConnell.
222
@Paul B: I'd throw Paul Ryan in for good measure. (My grandfather was a coal miner in WVA a long time ago; he got out while he could. Can't imagine him ever voting for those three Republicans!)
7
“To me, that was kind of a promise he did make to us,” Mr. VanSickle said about Mr. Trump, whom he supported last fall. “He promised to help miners, not just mining companies.”
And you believed him. Sad.
And you believed him. Sad.
247
Jobs for Miners may be coming back......... but Trump's WON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10
Trump once said he wants to surround himself with "people who have made a fortune." He doesn't care about the rest of us. Anyone who isn't wealthy is a "loser" in Trump's eyes. Meanwhile, all of us losers are paying for Trump's 3 million dollar a trip to Mar-A-Lago every weekend.
364
Trump has promised Minors that they will return to the Mines and their children and grandchildren can look forward to a life in the mines. They will all be taken care of......you have the President's word on it.
36
Yes and as is pointed out in the article those new jobs will not come with life time health insurance.
Many Americans accepted lower pay in negotiations for benefits that did not materialize and the government did not step in to cover the cost. The concern these minors have stops with themselves. They vote against the party that tries to help everyone, new workers and old workers, and those who find themselves without benefits whatever job they held.
If I could extend their benefits I would, but I am a liberal.
Many Americans accepted lower pay in negotiations for benefits that did not materialize and the government did not step in to cover the cost. The concern these minors have stops with themselves. They vote against the party that tries to help everyone, new workers and old workers, and those who find themselves without benefits whatever job they held.
If I could extend their benefits I would, but I am a liberal.
I truly feel sorry for the miners facing the loss of their insurance, and hope one day we will have single-payer like most of the developed world. I also wonder what it will take to make people stop voting against their own best interests. Education, maybe? Sad.
355
" .. hope one day we will have single-payer like most of the developed world .."
.. most of the developed world imprisons illegal immigrants, has higher taxes, has more bureaucrats to lecture citizens, and are highly non-diverse.
If you're hoping for that -- many Americans do not. Really. Not kidding.
.. most of the developed world imprisons illegal immigrants, has higher taxes, has more bureaucrats to lecture citizens, and are highly non-diverse.
If you're hoping for that -- many Americans do not. Really. Not kidding.
The people in Appalachia have to make their minds up for God's sake, do they want government to help them and vote democrats into power, or they want charities to help them and vote conservative candidates.
Simple informed vote.
Simple informed vote.
9
"I love the uneducated!"
No wonder.
No wonder.
8